From tom at makeshyft.com  Wed Jan  1 23:35:18 2025
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2025 23:35:18 -0500
Subject: Help with Linux app built with LC on Mac
In-Reply-To: <BB79235D-9D97-4071-A619-9757F6C722D4@livecode.org>
References: <BB79235D-9D97-4071-A619-9757F6C722D4@livecode.org>
Message-ID: <CAPzQJLKnvHPvcnisB=0r7rTbgK0YWz19UcF_2=2yq9DY72Th4A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Paul, does your app have a browser in it ? if so, you need to build the
linux build on a linux box.
Perhaps this is true for some of the other necessary inclusions.
Thats the only experience I've had with working linux builds vs not
working.
Let us know if you figure it out.



On Tue, Dec 31, 2024 at 6:32 PM Paul - Livecode via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>
> Hi everyone,
>
> I’ve been a long-time list member, but never really felt the need to ask
> for advice until now. I’ve just built a small app using LC 9.6.13 and built
> standalones for Mac, Windows, and Linux, which I may look at distributing
> once all testing is done.
>
> I’m using a MacBook Pro M2 for development, and I have Parallels for
> testing. The Mac and Windows versions appear to be working fine, but when I
> try to launch the Linux standalone in Ubuntu via Parallels, it won’t even
> launch. When I double-click the app icon, there is no response. The same is
> true if I right-click and choose “Run”. I checked the app and folder
> permissions, and they appear to be OK. The app is on the Linux partition,
> and I have tried both the standard and x64 versions.
>
> I’ve never used Linux before, apart from on RPi, so I’m not sure if there
> is something that I am missing or doing wrong. Any ideas or advice would be
> gratefully received.
>
> Thank you, and wishing you all a wonderful New Year.
>
> Paul
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From paul at livecode.org  Thu Jan  2 12:17:46 2025
From: paul at livecode.org (Paul - Livecode)
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2025 09:17:46 -0800
Subject: Help with Linux app built with LC on Mac
In-Reply-To: <CAPzQJLKnvHPvcnisB=0r7rTbgK0YWz19UcF_2=2yq9DY72Th4A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BB79235D-9D97-4071-A619-9757F6C722D4@livecode.org>
 <CAPzQJLKnvHPvcnisB=0r7rTbgK0YWz19UcF_2=2yq9DY72Th4A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ADE1CC07-1DF8-4E30-97AC-2FB84E2BE0A3@livecode.org>

Hi Tom, thanks for the suggestion. No, there is no browser in the app, it is just a simple app for manipulating and editing specific CSV files. It does use quite a few modern widget controls though, mainly a Polygrid and a few Powerbuttons. Although I also tested a very simple hello world app, and I couldn’t get that to run in Linux under Parallels on Mac M2, both my app and the simple test run fine in Linux under Parallels on an Intel Mac, so there is definitely something odd going on. Not sure if it’s just my setup or if it’s a LC/Parallels/M2 thing. 

I’m hoping to send it off to LC today, but I’m going to be travelling for a few days after tomorrow, so I may have to follow up with this later next week.

Paul


> On Jan 1, 2025, at 20:35, Tom Glod via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Paul, does your app have a browser in it ? if so, you need to build the
> linux build on a linux box.
> Perhaps this is true for some of the other necessary inclusions.
> Thats the only experience I've had with working linux builds vs not
> working.
> Let us know if you figure it out.
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Dec 31, 2024 at 6:32 PM Paul - Livecode via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Hi everyone,
>> 
>> I’ve been a long-time list member, but never really felt the need to ask
>> for advice until now. I’ve just built a small app using LC 9.6.13 and built
>> standalones for Mac, Windows, and Linux, which I may look at distributing
>> once all testing is done.
>> 
>> I’m using a MacBook Pro M2 for development, and I have Parallels for
>> testing. The Mac and Windows versions appear to be working fine, but when I
>> try to launch the Linux standalone in Ubuntu via Parallels, it won’t even
>> launch. When I double-click the app icon, there is no response. The same is
>> true if I right-click and choose “Run”. I checked the app and folder
>> permissions, and they appear to be OK. The app is on the Linux partition,
>> and I have tried both the standard and x64 versions.
>> 
>> I’ve never used Linux before, apart from on RPi, so I’m not sure if there
>> is something that I am missing or doing wrong. Any ideas or advice would be
>> gratefully received.
>> 
>> Thank you, and wishing you all a wonderful New Year.
>> 
>> Paul
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From mblivecode at harbourhosting.co.uk  Sun Jan  5 07:14:49 2025
From: mblivecode at harbourhosting.co.uk (Martin Baxter)
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2025 12:14:49 +0000
Subject: Help with Linux app built with LC on Mac
In-Reply-To: <ADE1CC07-1DF8-4E30-97AC-2FB84E2BE0A3@livecode.org>
References: <BB79235D-9D97-4071-A619-9757F6C722D4@livecode.org>
 <CAPzQJLKnvHPvcnisB=0r7rTbgK0YWz19UcF_2=2yq9DY72Th4A@mail.gmail.com>
 <ADE1CC07-1DF8-4E30-97AC-2FB84E2BE0A3@livecode.org>
Message-ID: <e33909ed-342f-4b5a-bd24-26aafb604f6b@harbourhosting.co.uk>

Hi Paul

1 Does the application have executable permission on linux?

2 If it does, the issue might perhaps be missing dependencies
check on the linux command line:

ldd <path to application>

that will return a list of libraries on which the app depends and the 
path to them, you would need to install any that are not present

Martin

On 02/01/2025 17:17, Paul - Livecode via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi Tom, thanks for the suggestion. No, there is no browser in the app, it is just a simple app for manipulating and editing specific CSV files. It does use quite a few modern widget controls though, mainly a Polygrid and a few Powerbuttons. Although I also tested a very simple hello world app, and I couldnt get that to run in Linux under Parallels on Mac M2, both my app and the simple test run fine in Linux under Parallels on an Intel Mac, so there is definitely something odd going on. Not sure if its just my setup or if its a LC/Parallels/M2 thing.
> 
> Im hoping to send it off to LC today, but Im going to be travelling for a few days after tomorrow, so I may have to follow up with this later next week.
> 
> Paul
> 
> 
>> On Jan 1, 2025, at 20:35, Tom Glod via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Paul, does your app have a browser in it ? if so, you need to build the
>> linux build on a linux box.
>> Perhaps this is true for some of the other necessary inclusions.
>> Thats the only experience I've had with working linux builds vs not
>> working.
>> Let us know if you figure it out.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 31, 2024 at 6:32PM Paul - Livecode via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hi everyone,
>>>
>>> Ive been a long-time list member, but never really felt the need to ask
>>> for advice until now. Ive just built a small app using LC 9.6.13 and built
>>> standalones for Mac, Windows, and Linux, which I may look at distributing
>>> once all testing is done.
>>>
>>> Im using a MacBook Pro M2 for development, and I have Parallels for
>>> testing. The Mac and Windows versions appear to be working fine, but when I
>>> try to launch the Linux standalone in Ubuntu via Parallels, it wont even
>>> launch. When I double-click the app icon, there is no response. The same is
>>> true if I right-click and choose Run. I checked the app and folder
>>> permissions, and they appear to be OK. The app is on the Linux partition,
>>> and I have tried both the standard and x64 versions.
>>>
>>> Ive never used Linux before, apart from on RPi, so Im not sure if there
>>> is something that I am missing or doing wrong. Any ideas or advice would be
>>> gratefully received.
>>>
>>> Thank you, and wishing you all a wonderful New Year.
>>>
>>> Paul
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Jan 10 13:02:30 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2025 18:02:30 +0000
Subject: MacOS compatibility
Message-ID: <C9E70478-EA10-4609-8DC8-BE2808A514A6@iotecdigital.com>

Hi all. 

I just want to clarify, the Livecode web site indicates that LC is compatible with MacOS 14.x Sonoma, but it does not list 15.x Sequoia. Before I update my OS (which I do NOT allow it to do automatically) I want to be sure about the compatibility. 

Bob S



From ludovic.thebault at laposte.net  Fri Jan 10 13:05:13 2025
From: ludovic.thebault at laposte.net (Ludovic THEBAULT)
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2025 19:05:13 +0100
Subject: MacOS compatibility
In-Reply-To: <C9E70478-EA10-4609-8DC8-BE2808A514A6@iotecdigital.com>
References: <C9E70478-EA10-4609-8DC8-BE2808A514A6@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <D358B769-4A94-4E58-86AF-532F6AF0DAE6@laposte.net>



> Le 10 janv. 2025 à 19:02, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> a écrit :
> 
> Hi all. 
> 
> I just want to clarify, the Livecode web site indicates that LC is compatible with MacOS 14.x Sonoma, but it does not list 15.x Sequoia. Before I update my OS (which I do NOT allow it to do automatically) I want to be sure about the compatibility. 
> 
> Bob S


Hello,

I use Livecode Create DP5 on sequoia without problems.

Ludovic


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Jan 10 14:20:43 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2025 19:20:43 +0000
Subject: MacOS compatibility
In-Reply-To: <D358B769-4A94-4E58-86AF-532F6AF0DAE6@laposte.net>
References: <C9E70478-EA10-4609-8DC8-BE2808A514A6@iotecdigital.com>
 <D358B769-4A94-4E58-86AF-532F6AF0DAE6@laposte.net>
Message-ID: <91C28A17-50BE-47AB-98FC-6A5934A1B0D6@iotecdigital.com>

I’m not using create yet. I’m on 10.0.1 (rc3)

Bob S


> On Jan 10, 2025, at 10:05 AM, Ludovic THEBAULT via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> Le 10 janv. 2025 à 19:02, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> a écrit :
>> 
>> Hi all. 
>> 
>> I just want to clarify, the Livecode web site indicates that LC is compatible with MacOS 14.x Sonoma, but it does not list 15.x Sequoia. Before I update my OS (which I do NOT allow it to do automatically) I want to be sure about the compatibility. 
>> 
>> Bob S
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I use Livecode Create DP5 on sequoia without problems.
> 
> Ludovic
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From martyknappster at gmail.com  Fri Jan 10 14:26:03 2025
From: martyknappster at gmail.com (Marty Knapp)
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2025 11:26:03 -0800
Subject: MacOS compatibility
In-Reply-To: <91C28A17-50BE-47AB-98FC-6A5934A1B0D6@iotecdigital.com>
References: <C9E70478-EA10-4609-8DC8-BE2808A514A6@iotecdigital.com>
 <D358B769-4A94-4E58-86AF-532F6AF0DAE6@laposte.net>
 <91C28A17-50BE-47AB-98FC-6A5934A1B0D6@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <007A0982-766A-4EEE-A840-6401F5D32B02@gmail.com>

Bob, I’m using LC 9.6.13 on Sequoia 15.2 with no issues.

---
Marty Knapp
> On Jan 10, 2025, at 11:20 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I’m not using create yet. I’m on 10.0.1 (rc3)
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Jan 10, 2025, at 10:05 AM, Ludovic THEBAULT via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> Le 10 janv. 2025 à 19:02, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> a écrit :
>>> 
>>> Hi all. 
>>> 
>>> I just want to clarify, the Livecode web site indicates that LC is compatible with MacOS 14.x Sonoma, but it does not list 15.x Sequoia. Before I update my OS (which I do NOT allow it to do automatically) I want to be sure about the compatibility. 
>>> 
>>> Bob S



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Jan 10 14:41:24 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2025 19:41:24 +0000
Subject: MacOS compatibility
In-Reply-To: <007A0982-766A-4EEE-A840-6401F5D32B02@gmail.com>
References: <C9E70478-EA10-4609-8DC8-BE2808A514A6@iotecdigital.com>
 <D358B769-4A94-4E58-86AF-532F6AF0DAE6@laposte.net>
 <91C28A17-50BE-47AB-98FC-6A5934A1B0D6@iotecdigital.com>
 <007A0982-766A-4EEE-A840-6401F5D32B02@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <76140479-804C-4F37-A87F-7BEB926354F2@iotecdigital.com>

Thanks Marty good to know. 

Bob S


> On Jan 10, 2025, at 11:26 AM, Marty Knapp via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Bob, I’m using LC 9.6.13 on Sequoia 15.2 with no issues.
> 
> ---
> Marty Knapp
>> On Jan 10, 2025, at 11:20 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I’m not using create yet. I’m on 10.0.1 (rc3)
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 10, 2025, at 10:05 AM, Ludovic THEBAULT via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Le 10 janv. 2025 à 19:02, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> a écrit :
>>>> 
>>>> Hi all. 
>>>> 
>>>> I just want to clarify, the Livecode web site indicates that LC is compatible with MacOS 14.x Sonoma, but it does not list 15.x Sequoia. Before I update my OS (which I do NOT allow it to do automatically) I want to be sure about the compatibility. 
>>>> 
>>>> Bob S
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From harrison at all-auctions.com  Fri Jan 10 14:50:15 2025
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com)
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2025 14:50:15 -0500
Subject: MacOS compatibility
In-Reply-To: <C9E70478-EA10-4609-8DC8-BE2808A514A6@iotecdigital.com>
References: <C9E70478-EA10-4609-8DC8-BE2808A514A6@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <8C7B5CDD-AEFC-48C5-AADC-F7C24DC39DD0@all-auctions.com>

Hi Bob,

I was just forced into upgrading one of my computers to Sequoia, and it isn’t pretty. I have been
running into issues with Apple’s New Password and the Keychain Access scheme.

I recommend staying one operating system behind if possible. That gives everyone a year to
iron out most of the bugs.  I would stick with Sonoma if I were you at least until Apple announces
the name of the next operating system.

Just my 2 cents.  :-)

Rick

> On Jan 10, 2025, at 1:02 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi all. 
> 
> I just want to clarify, the Livecode web site indicates that LC is compatible with MacOS 14.x Sonoma, but it does not list 15.x Sequoia. Before I update my OS (which I do NOT allow it to do automatically) I want to be sure about the compatibility. 
> 
> Bob S


From paul at researchware.com  Fri Jan 10 14:55:10 2025
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2025 14:55:10 -0500
Subject: MacOS compatibility
In-Reply-To: <76140479-804C-4F37-A87F-7BEB926354F2@iotecdigital.com>
References: <C9E70478-EA10-4609-8DC8-BE2808A514A6@iotecdigital.com>
 <D358B769-4A94-4E58-86AF-532F6AF0DAE6@laposte.net>
 <91C28A17-50BE-47AB-98FC-6A5934A1B0D6@iotecdigital.com>
 <007A0982-766A-4EEE-A840-6401F5D32B02@gmail.com>
 <76140479-804C-4F37-A87F-7BEB926354F2@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <a464b302-b33c-4cd2-a69a-772525ef556c@researchware.com>

Sequoia compatibility is a little more complicated

For example, if you build you app for Intel, Rosetta is not preinstalled 
on Sequoia, and when someone first runs your Intel macOS app, they will 
be prompted to download Rosetta. if they decline - or as happened to us 
- the download was interrupted, it is a real pain to get Rosetta 
installed after that.

If you build you macOS app for Apple Silicon, be aware that not ALL 
libraries, externals, widgets, etc, that are available for LC 9.6.13 or 
10.0.1 are available for Apple Silicon. For example, last I checked the 
XPDF External (vs the PDF Widget) is not available for Apple Silicon. 
There may more things things outside of the core engine that are not 
available for Apple Silicon.

If you use any of these that are not available for Apple Silicon, then 
you will need to make it an Intel macOS app and deal with Rosetta.

I have no idea if Livecode has a list somewhere of what is and is not 
available for an Apple Silicon build of all the bits available in a 
9.6.13 business license. (or any of the different licenses).


On 1/10/2025 2:41 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
> Thanks Marty good to know.
>
> Bob S
>
>
>> On Jan 10, 2025, at 11:26 AM, Marty Knapp via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> Bob, Im using LC 9.6.13 on Sequoia 15.2 with no issues.
>>
>> ---
>> Marty Knapp
>>> On Jan 10, 2025, at 11:20AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Im not using create yet. Im on 10.0.1 (rc3)
>>>
>>> Bob S
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Jan 10, 2025, at 10:05 AM, Ludovic THEBAULT via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Le 10 janv. 2025  19:02, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> a crit :
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi all.
>>>>>
>>>>> I just want to clarify, the Livecode web site indicates that LC is compatible with MacOS 14.x Sonoma, but it does not list 15.x Sequoia. Before I update my OS (which I do NOT allow it to do automatically) I want to be sure about the compatibility.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bob S
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From Bernd.Niggemann at uni-wh.de  Sat Jan 11 07:08:19 2025
From: Bernd.Niggemann at uni-wh.de (Niggemann, Bernd)
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2025 12:08:19 +0000
Subject: [Ann] An accordion widget
Message-ID: <530DE464-546A-4714-85F6-1F580F193A58@uni-wh.de>

Hello all,

I uploaded a slightly updated version of "Accordion" to the Forum.

Code cleanup  and subtle change to appearence (even more "material design")

<https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=39452&p=232973#p232973>
Accordion for LC<https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=39452&p=232973#p232973>
forums.livecode.com<https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=39452&p=232973#p232973>
        [X] <https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=39452&p=232973#p232973>



Kind regards
Bernd

From paul at livecode.org  Sat Jan 11 12:14:15 2025
From: paul at livecode.org (Paul - Livecode)
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2025 12:14:15 -0500
Subject: Help with Linux app built with LC on Mac
In-Reply-To: <e33909ed-342f-4b5a-bd24-26aafb604f6b@harbourhosting.co.uk>
References: <BB79235D-9D97-4071-A619-9757F6C722D4@livecode.org>
 <CAPzQJLKnvHPvcnisB=0r7rTbgK0YWz19UcF_2=2yq9DY72Th4A@mail.gmail.com>
 <ADE1CC07-1DF8-4E30-97AC-2FB84E2BE0A3@livecode.org>
 <e33909ed-342f-4b5a-bd24-26aafb604f6b@harbourhosting.co.uk>
Message-ID: <06FF0245-8D19-4EF1-9021-3A2A2DBC2170@livecode.org>

Hi Martin,

Thank you for your reply, apologies for the delayed response, we have been travelling/sightseeing for a few days so I have not had much time for the computer, a little rain has slowed activities today! :-)

I tried the ldd command, but it just returned ’not a dynamic executable’, I assumed that means Linux does not recognize the file as an app, so I looked up what that meant online and found a little more info, then tried the ‘file’ command (as suggested from the search results) and it returned;

parallels at ubuntu-linux-22-04-02-desktop:~/Documents/Linux x64$ file HelloWorld
HelloWorld: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically lin
ked, interpreter /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.50.2, for GNU/Linux 2.6.32, BuildID[sha1
]=46300372835d048c44a256611604d7f6b179aba5, not stripped

So it seems Ubuntu is recognizing the app, but just not launching it!

Tried the same in Debian:

parallels at debian-gnu-linux-12:~$ ldd '/home/parallels/Documents/Linux Builds/Linux X64/Hello World'
not a dynamic executable
parallels at debian-gnu-linux-12:~$ file '/home/parallels/Documents/Linux Builds/Linux x64/Hello World'
/home/parallels/Documents/Linux Builds/Linux x64/Hello World: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version
1 (SYSV), dynamically linked, interpreter /1ib64/1d-linux-x86-64.50.2, for GNU/Linux 2.6.32, BuildID[sha1]=46300372835d048c44a256611604d7f6b179aba5, not stripped
parallels at debian-gnu-linux-12:~$

Same result.

If I try to launch through Terminal;
parallels at debian-gnu-linux-12:~$ '/home/parallels/Documents/Linux Builds/Linux X64/Hello World'
bash: /home/parallels/Documents/Linux Builds/Linux x64/Hello World: cannot execute binary file: Exec for
mat error

A little more digging and it seems LC  is only building an x86 executable and Parallels installs Linux on ARM64, so they are just not compatible...

Quote:
Ubuntu Exec Format Error
The “Exec format error” in Ubuntu typically indicates that the system cannot recognize the file as a shell script or executable. This can happen due to several reasons, such as a missing shebang (#!) at the start of a script, incorrect file permissions, or running an executable on the wrong architecture. For instance, trying to run an x86 executable on an ARM CPU can cause this error. Adding a shebang at the beginning of your script, ensuring the correct architecture matches, and verifying file permissions can help resolve the issue.

Thank you everyone for your help, I’ve learned a little more about Linux now. I’ll send this back to LC for their input.

Paul

> On Jan 5, 2025, at 07:14, Martin Baxter via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Paul
> 
> 1 Does the application have executable permission on linux?
> 
> 2 If it does, the issue might perhaps be missing dependencies
> check on the linux command line:
> 
> ldd <path to application>
> 
> that will return a list of libraries on which the app depends and the path to them, you would need to install any that are not present
> 
> Martin
> 
> On 02/01/2025 17:17, Paul - Livecode via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hi Tom, thanks for the suggestion. No, there is no browser in the app, it is just a simple app for manipulating and editing specific CSV files. It does use quite a few modern widget controls though, mainly a Polygrid and a few Powerbuttons. Although I also tested a very simple hello world app, and I couldn’t get that to run in Linux under Parallels on Mac M2, both my app and the simple test run fine in Linux under Parallels on an Intel Mac, so there is definitely something odd going on. Not sure if it’s just my setup or if it’s a LC/Parallels/M2 thing.
>> I’m hoping to send it off to LC today, but I’m going to be travelling for a few days after tomorrow, so I may have to follow up with this later next week.
>> Paul
>>> On Jan 1, 2025, at 20:35, Tom Glod via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Paul, does your app have a browser in it ? if so, you need to build the
>>> linux build on a linux box.
>>> Perhaps this is true for some of the other necessary inclusions.
>>> Thats the only experience I've had with working linux builds vs not
>>> working.
>>> Let us know if you figure it out.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Dec 31, 2024 at 6:32 PM Paul - Livecode via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>> 
>>>> I’ve been a long-time list member, but never really felt the need to ask
>>>> for advice until now. I’ve just built a small app using LC 9.6.13 and built
>>>> standalones for Mac, Windows, and Linux, which I may look at distributing
>>>> once all testing is done.
>>>> 
>>>> I’m using a MacBook Pro M2 for development, and I have Parallels for
>>>> testing. The Mac and Windows versions appear to be working fine, but when I
>>>> try to launch the Linux standalone in Ubuntu via Parallels, it won’t even
>>>> launch. When I double-click the app icon, there is no response. The same is
>>>> true if I right-click and choose “Run”. I checked the app and folder
>>>> permissions, and they appear to be OK. The app is on the Linux partition,
>>>> and I have tried both the standard and x64 versions.
>>>> 
>>>> I’ve never used Linux before, apart from on RPi, so I’m not sure if there
>>>> is something that I am missing or doing wrong. Any ideas or advice would be
>>>> gratefully received.
>>>> 
>>>> Thank you, and wishing you all a wonderful New Year.
>>>> 
>>>> Paul
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Tue Jan 14 11:29:04 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2025 16:29:04 +0000
Subject: The Files Function borked? 
Message-ID: <61622D76-541B-41C0-A6B6-18A6A6E15F58@iotecdigital.com>

Hi all. 

In the message box I put: 

put the files of "/Users/bobsneidar/Downloads/“

It returns a short list: 

Forms.zip
temp.db
Forms Generator 8.livecode
Time Zones
File Transfer Error Log.txt
iCalendar Sample with Attachment.ics
.DS_Store
Forms Generator 8 Crash Log.txt
Data Import.livecode
iCalendar Sample.ics
Vendors.livecode
snapshot.png
Old Copier Settings.txt
Paypal Encryption Technique.txt
DictionarySplitter_0_4.livecode
Software.livecode
Splash.livecode
Time Calculator.livecode
test.txt
iCalendar Sample with Attachment.ics.zip
20231213-Check Request.pdf
Refactor ProcessData.txt
tempdatabase.db
Time Zones.xlsx

That is only a fraction of the files in that folder. Whaaa???

Bob S

From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Jan 14 11:39:31 2025
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2025 10:39:31 -0600
Subject: The Files Function borked?
In-Reply-To: <61622D76-541B-41C0-A6B6-18A6A6E15F58@iotecdigital.com>
References: <61622D76-541B-41C0-A6B6-18A6A6E15F58@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <B17D61F0-3308-4B72-814C-0ABFEB2FD16F@sonsothunder.com>

Yeah I'm getting the same thing; if you use the "old" way, it works properly:

put the directory into tOldDir
set the directory to "/Users/bobsneidar/Downloads/"
put the files
set the directory to tOldDir



Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Website: https://www.sonsothunder.com



> On Jan 14, 2025, at 10:29 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi all. 
> 
> In the message box I put: 
> 
> put the files of "/Users/bobsneidar/Downloads/“
> 
> It returns a short list: 
> 
> Forms.zip
> temp.db
> Forms Generator 8.livecode
> Time Zones
> File Transfer Error Log.txt
> iCalendar Sample with Attachment.ics
> .DS_Store
> Forms Generator 8 Crash Log.txt
> Data Import.livecode
> iCalendar Sample.ics
> Vendors.livecode
> snapshot.png
> Old Copier Settings.txt
> Paypal Encryption Technique.txt
> DictionarySplitter_0_4.livecode
> Software.livecode
> Splash.livecode
> Time Calculator.livecode
> test.txt
> iCalendar Sample with Attachment.ics.zip
> 20231213-Check Request.pdf
> Refactor ProcessData.txt
> tempdatabase.db
> Time Zones.xlsx
> 
> That is only a fraction of the files in that folder. Whaaa???
> 
> Bob S
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Tue Jan 14 11:56:02 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2025 16:56:02 +0000
Subject: The Files Function borked?
In-Reply-To: <DA04979F-A61B-46FD-A90F-30E30BF9BD25@iotecdigital.com>
References: <61622D76-541B-41C0-A6B6-18A6A6E15F58@iotecdigital.com>
 <B17D61F0-3308-4B72-814C-0ABFEB2FD16F@sonsothunder.com>
 <DA04979F-A61B-46FD-A90F-30E30BF9BD25@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <461B81FC-317F-410B-A5D1-78F65E23F351@iotecdigital.com>

Interestingly, the function form works as well.

Bob S


On Jan 14, 2025, at 8:48 AM, Bob Sneidar <bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com> wrote:

Thanks for checking. That is a pretty big bug. I will submit a bug report shortly.

Bob S


On Jan 14, 2025, at 8:39 AM, Ken Ray <kray at sonsothunder.com> wrote:

You don't often get email from kray at sonsothunder.com. Learn why this is important<https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification>
Yeah I'm getting the same thing; if you use the "old" way, it works properly:

put the directory into tOldDir
set the directory to "/Users/bobsneidar/Downloads/"
put the files
set the directory to tOldDir



Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Website: https://www.sonsothunder.com



On Jan 14, 2025, at 10:29 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

Hi all.

In the message box I put:

put the files of "/Users/bobsneidar/Downloads/“

It returns a short list:

Forms.zip
temp.db
Forms Generator 8.livecode
Time Zones
File Transfer Error Log.txt
iCalendar Sample with Attachment.ics
.DS_Store
Forms Generator 8 Crash Log.txt
Data Import.livecode
iCalendar Sample.ics
Vendors.livecode
snapshot.png
Old Copier Settings.txt
Paypal Encryption Technique.txt
DictionarySplitter_0_4.livecode
Software.livecode
Splash.livecode
Time Calculator.livecode
test.txt
iCalendar Sample with Attachment.ics.zip
20231213-Check Request.pdf
Refactor ProcessData.txt
tempdatabase.db
Time Zones.xlsx

That is only a fraction of the files in that folder. Whaaa???

Bob S
_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Tue Jan 14 13:16:27 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2025 18:16:27 +0000
Subject: The Files Function borked?
In-Reply-To: <461B81FC-317F-410B-A5D1-78F65E23F351@iotecdigital.com>
References: <61622D76-541B-41C0-A6B6-18A6A6E15F58@iotecdigital.com>
 <B17D61F0-3308-4B72-814C-0ABFEB2FD16F@sonsothunder.com>
 <DA04979F-A61B-46FD-A90F-30E30BF9BD25@iotecdigital.com>
 <461B81FC-317F-410B-A5D1-78F65E23F351@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <5619D0BB-FCBF-4C11-B363-76D4DC170E8D@iotecdigital.com>

What would really be handy is a way to get the detailed file information for a single file. There is a use case where there may be many thousands of files in a directory, and enumerating the detailed files then filtering for the one you want seems onerous and probably time consuming. 

I throught about rolling my own, but then when doing this for Windows and using the shell command I keep getting “file not found.” 

answer file "Select file"  put it into tFileName
put "dir /T:W "  & quote & tFileName & quote into tCmd
put shell(tCmd)

I doubt it but is there a command in Livecode to get the mod date of a file? 

Bob S


> On Jan 14, 2025, at 8:56 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Interestingly, the function form works as well.
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
> On Jan 14, 2025, at 8:48 AM, Bob Sneidar <bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com> wrote:
> 
> Thanks for checking. That is a pretty big bug. I will submit a bug report shortly.
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 


From paul at livecode.org  Tue Jan 14 23:52:18 2025
From: paul at livecode.org (Paul - Livecode)
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2025 23:52:18 -0500
Subject: Help with Linux app built with LC on Mac
In-Reply-To: <06FF0245-8D19-4EF1-9021-3A2A2DBC2170@livecode.org>
References: <BB79235D-9D97-4071-A619-9757F6C722D4@livecode.org>
 <CAPzQJLKnvHPvcnisB=0r7rTbgK0YWz19UcF_2=2yq9DY72Th4A@mail.gmail.com>
 <ADE1CC07-1DF8-4E30-97AC-2FB84E2BE0A3@livecode.org>
 <e33909ed-342f-4b5a-bd24-26aafb604f6b@harbourhosting.co.uk>
 <06FF0245-8D19-4EF1-9021-3A2A2DBC2170@livecode.org>
Message-ID: <DEF1B2A8-148B-4450-8DA0-D6D3C0773650@livecode.org>


Just a quick follow up for anyone following or interested in this issue. Apparently the problem is caused by Parallels on Apple M series devices are running Linux on an ARM platform, so there is no emulator for the x86 commands, it is just a processor compatibility issue. Linux on ARM is a relatively new concept, it may improve in the future, but who knows?
There’s no easy answer (for me at least), I tried installing some suggested ARM compatibility software, but either my lack of understanding of Linux, or their inability to rum LC standalones left me with no resolution, so it’s back to testing on an older Intel Mac with Parallels and Linux for now.

Paul

From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Wed Jan 15 11:12:20 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2025 16:12:20 +0000
Subject: [Ann] An accordion widget
In-Reply-To: <530DE464-546A-4714-85F6-1F580F193A58@uni-wh.de>
References: <530DE464-546A-4714-85F6-1F580F193A58@uni-wh.de>
Message-ID: <09AE11FB-3D2E-4D09-A268-782845C0004A@iotecdigital.com>

Very nice piece of work. Like the datagrid, it shows what can be done with native LC controls and good ingenuity. 

Bob S


> On Jan 11, 2025, at 4:08 AM, Niggemann, Bernd via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> I uploaded a slightly updated version of "Accordion" to the Forum.
> 
> Code cleanup  and subtle change to appearence (even more "material design")
> 
> <https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=39452&p=232973#p232973>
> Accordion for LC<https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=39452&p=232973#p232973>
> forums.livecode.com<https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=39452&p=232973#p232973>
>        [X] <https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=39452&p=232973#p232973>
> 
> 
> 
> Kind regards
> Bernd
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From Bernd.Niggemann at uni-wh.de  Wed Jan 15 13:21:45 2025
From: Bernd.Niggemann at uni-wh.de (Niggemann, Bernd)
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2025 18:21:45 +0000
Subject: [Ann] An accordion widget
Message-ID: <EB9E5A8E-D5B0-4585-A432-DBE27E1E669B@uni-wh.de>

Bob Sneidar via use-livecode<https://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=use-livecode at lists.runrev.com&q=from:%22Bob+Sneidar+via+use%5C-livecode%22> Wed, 15 Jan 2025 08:14:32 -0800<https://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=use-livecode at lists.runrev.com&q=date:20250115>

Very nice piece of work. Like the datagrid, it shows what can be done with
native LC controls and good ingenuity.

Bob S


> On Jan 11, 2025, at 4:08 AM, Niggemann, Bernd via use-livecode
> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> Hello all,
>
> I uploaded a slightly updated version of "Accordion" to the Forum.
>
> Code cleanup  and subtle change to appearence (even more "material design")
>
> <https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=39452&p=232973#p232973>


Thank you Bob for your kind words.

Kind regards
Bernd

From curry at pair.com  Wed Jan 15 15:13:25 2025
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2025 15:13:25 -0500
Subject: The Files Function borked?
In-Reply-To: <5619D0BB-FCBF-4C11-B363-76D4DC170E8D@iotecdigital.com>
References: <5619D0BB-FCBF-4C11-B363-76D4DC170E8D@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <2658d163-391e-459a-a9e3-3212d06d9620@pair.com>

Bob:

 > I keep getting file not found.

 > answer file "Select file"
 > put it into tFileName
 > put "dir /T:W "  & quote & tFileName & quote into tCmd
 > put shell(tCmd)

Whaaa???

Fix your /'s!

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
"PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
https://livecodeconsulting.com/

More news after recuperating a bit....


From mkoob at rogers.com  Wed Jan 15 15:27:17 2025
From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob)
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2025 15:27:17 -0500
Subject: Help with Linux app built with LC on Mac
In-Reply-To: <DEF1B2A8-148B-4450-8DA0-D6D3C0773650@livecode.org>
References: <BB79235D-9D97-4071-A619-9757F6C722D4@livecode.org>
 <CAPzQJLKnvHPvcnisB=0r7rTbgK0YWz19UcF_2=2yq9DY72Th4A@mail.gmail.com>
 <ADE1CC07-1DF8-4E30-97AC-2FB84E2BE0A3@livecode.org>
 <e33909ed-342f-4b5a-bd24-26aafb604f6b@harbourhosting.co.uk>
 <06FF0245-8D19-4EF1-9021-3A2A2DBC2170@livecode.org>
 <DEF1B2A8-148B-4450-8DA0-D6D3C0773650@livecode.org>
Message-ID: <F56076AB-7A5A-4762-86EA-766B9319038C@rogers.com>

Hi Paul

I wonder if you would have a better experience using Docker https://www.docker.com/ to set up a container running Linux on your Mac to do your testing.

I am no expert on Docker and less so on Linux.  I have used Docker to run a web service locally on my Mac to test cmi5 packages for conformance to the standard. The web service is called CATAPULT.  A company called Rustici did all the work and created the image that builds the container and launches the webservice.  On my end I just had to download it, install it and do some configuration (This was the hardest part for me — it involved a few rounds of trial and error but that is more on me as I was hurrying and typing first and reading documentation later.)

Once it was installed I just had to issue a few terminal commands to build the container and then launch the CATAPULT web service  that is used to test cmi5 documents for conformance to the cmi5 standard. Then I accessed the web service using my desktop browser to go to a localhost address.

So that is not exactly what you want to do but I think it can be done.

Here is a blog article on the subject of running Linux apps on a Mac using Docker.
https://blog.alexellis.io/linux-desktop-on-mac/

It was written in 2016 and was using El Capitan so will be out of date — for one thing it wouldn’t be taking into account Apple Silicon CPUs since the first Mac with the M1 was in 2013.  But there is a hub where you can find up to date prebuilt images that are shared with the Docker community  https://hub.docker.com/ .  This includes a whole range of uses  including running Linux Distributions on your Mac (or Windows) machine.


I have not had a need to text an LiveCode app on Linux so I have not used one for this purpose but perhaps it may work better than Parallels.

Anyway just throwing that out there.  I don’t know if it would resolve the x86 vs ARM issue but I see when narrowing down the search I was able to choose the OS and Architecture from the list of filters.  That would imply to me it is emulating the architecture but as I said I only use one ready made image so I don’t know the ins and outs of this.  I am curious though if that is the case.


FILTERS

Trusted content
	✔︎	Docker Official Image
		Verified Publisher
		Sponsored OSS

Operating Systems
	✔︎	Linux
		Windows

Architectures
		ARM
		ARM 64
		IBM POWER
		PowerPC 64 LE
		IBM Z
	✔︎	x86
		x86-64


In the results of that search there were Linux distributions, for example Debian and Ubuntu.

Debian

https://hub.docker.com/_/debian

Ubuntu

https://hub.docker.com/_/ubuntu


Let me know if this is what you were looking for.

Martin Koob

> On Jan 14, 2025, at 11:52 PM, Paul - Livecode via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> 

> 

> Just a quick follow up for anyone following or interested in this issue. Apparently the problem is caused by Parallels on Apple M series devices are running Linux on an ARM platform, so there is no emulator for the x86 commands, it is just a processor compatibility issue. Linux on ARM is a relatively new concept, it may improve in the future, but who knows?

> There’s no easy answer (for me at least), I tried installing some suggested ARM compatibility software, but either my lack of understanding of Linux, or their inability to rum LC standalones left me with no resolution, so it’s back to testing on an older Intel Mac with Parallels and Linux for now.

> 

> Paul

> _______________________________________________

> use-livecode mailing list

> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com

> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:

> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From jbv at souslelogo.com  Sat Jan 18 03:49:17 2025
From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com)
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2025 03:49:17 -0500
Subject: Azure or AWS ?
Message-ID: <c98282b5b52d2ebacf20b17509872800@souslelogo.com>

Hi list,

I have a small LC desktop app that sends requests via curl
to ollama and some AI models. Everything runs fine on my Mac
and now I would like to try to move it to the cloud, but I'm
not sure which platform to choose.
I have read a few blogs like this one :
https://www.shiksha.com/online-courses/articles/aws-vs-azure/
but still can't make my mind...
Even in the cloud, the app will have very low trafic, the main
reason behing moving to the cloud is that some models are too
"big" to fit on my Mac.
Furthermore, I am not sure of the way both platforms charge :
one is per minute and the other per hour, but does it mean
that they keep charging as long as an account exists, or only
when some requests and computations take place ?

Does anyone have any experience on this matter ?
Thank you in advance.

jbv


From curry at pair.com  Sat Jan 18 22:54:14 2025
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2025 22:54:14 -0500
Subject: Low-code dev tools checklist, Red Flags, LC Options to consider
Message-ID: <d8846a04-29fe-4dda-9698-3d6dd4fb0709@pair.com>

Low-code dev tools:

- free demo version is standard.
- crowded market already.
- user pricing bubble will face cooling inflation/novelty.
- belated adoption trend, not brand new technology.
- middle class business growth will favor savvy pricing/terms.

I am still recuperating; not hunting/testing yet.
Not in a rush. When I do....

My Low-code checklist:

- free demo version, no time limit.
- reliable, stable, Low-code done right.
- savvy pricing/terms for versatile projects and clients.
- smart privacy and security options.
- very low hassle and busywork, for myself or clients.
- user pricing targeting affordable end user's pricing.
- welcoming diverse ideas and input, with honest answers.
- full well-thought FAQ.

And when using Self-hosted or local data:

- unlimited users, or very cheap/versatile.
- easy no tracking and enhanced privacy/security options.
- no app kill switch.

Red Flags/Things to avoid:

- app kill switch.
- stubborn tracking requirements.
- audits, busywork, paperwork, snooping, pseudo bureaucracy.
- invalidates other EULAs prematurely.
- tedious user management or data busywork.
- naive or hostile groupthink, favoritism, contradictions.

LC Options to consider:

- LiveCode Create + tweaks for better pricing/terms/privacy.
- LiveCode Community/OpenXTalk + other Low-code dev tool.

Not interested in:

- webinars, live Q&A, videos, inefficient processes.
- frequent 'one time only/last chance' promotions.

Glad to see Low-code dev tools adoption trend - it's about time!
And ... Glad to finally post my follow-up thoughts; Delayed by illness.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
"PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
https://livecodeconsulting.com/

More news after recuperating a bit....


From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Mon Jan 20 10:32:18 2025
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2025 10:32:18 -0500
Subject: Low-code dev tools checklist, Red Flags, LC Options to consider
In-Reply-To: <d8846a04-29fe-4dda-9698-3d6dd4fb0709@pair.com>
References: <d8846a04-29fe-4dda-9698-3d6dd4fb0709@pair.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycOQZ-NzdjqSfMqFCqr9BD1rprqU1HGh-635ob9=bAqzLQ@mail.gmail.com>

in case anyone cares, another low code tool, qodly, came out of beta, and
was released to the public with 1.0.0, today.
https://qodly.com

On Sat, Jan 18, 2025 at 10:55 PM Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Low-code dev tools:
>
> - free demo version is standard.
> - crowded market already.
> - user pricing bubble will face cooling inflation/novelty.
> - belated adoption trend, not brand new technology.
> - middle class business growth will favor savvy pricing/terms.
>
> I am still recuperating; not hunting/testing yet.
> Not in a rush. When I do....
>
> My Low-code checklist:
>
> - free demo version, no time limit.
> - reliable, stable, Low-code done right.
> - savvy pricing/terms for versatile projects and clients.
> - smart privacy and security options.
> - very low hassle and busywork, for myself or clients.
> - user pricing targeting affordable end user's pricing.
> - welcoming diverse ideas and input, with honest answers.
> - full well-thought FAQ.
>
> And when using Self-hosted or local data:
>
> - unlimited users, or very cheap/versatile.
> - easy no tracking and enhanced privacy/security options.
> - no app kill switch.
>
> Red Flags/Things to avoid:
>
> - app kill switch.
> - stubborn tracking requirements.
> - audits, busywork, paperwork, snooping, pseudo bureaucracy.
> - invalidates other EULAs prematurely.
> - tedious user management or data busywork.
> - naive or hostile groupthink, favoritism, contradictions.
>
> LC Options to consider:
>
> - LiveCode Create + tweaks for better pricing/terms/privacy.
> - LiveCode Community/OpenXTalk + other Low-code dev tool.
>
> Not interested in:
>
> - webinars, live Q&A, videos, inefficient processes.
> - frequent 'one time only/last chance' promotions.
>
> Glad to see Low-code dev tools adoption trend - it's about time!
> And ... Glad to finally post my follow-up thoughts; Delayed by illness.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Curry Kenworthy
>
> Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
> "PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
> https://livecodeconsulting.com/
>
> More news after recuperating a bit....
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Tue Jan 21 11:04:36 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2025 16:04:36 +0000
Subject: Azure or AWS ?
In-Reply-To: <c98282b5b52d2ebacf20b17509872800@souslelogo.com>
References: <c98282b5b52d2ebacf20b17509872800@souslelogo.com>
Message-ID: <97242384-F180-4417-B2C4-53A2CE41DFD8@iotecdigital.com>

Just by way of reason, no business model would charge by the minute for uptime. 

Bob S


> On Jan 18, 2025, at 12:49 AM, jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi list,
> 
> I have a small LC desktop app that sends requests via curl
> to ollama and some AI models. Everything runs fine on my Mac
> and now I would like to try to move it to the cloud, but I'm
> not sure which platform to choose.
> I have read a few blogs like this one :
> https://www.shiksha.com/online-courses/articles/aws-vs-azure/
> but still can't make my mind...
> Even in the cloud, the app will have very low trafic, the main
> reason behing moving to the cloud is that some models are too
> "big" to fit on my Mac.
> Furthermore, I am not sure of the way both platforms charge :
> one is per minute and the other per hour, but does it mean
> that they keep charging as long as an account exists, or only
> when some requests and computations take place ?
> 
> Does anyone have any experience on this matter ?
> Thank you in advance.
> 
> jbv
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From harrison at all-auctions.com  Tue Jan 21 12:01:06 2025
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com)
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2025 12:01:06 -0500
Subject: Azure or AWS ?
In-Reply-To: <97242384-F180-4417-B2C4-53A2CE41DFD8@iotecdigital.com>
References: <c98282b5b52d2ebacf20b17509872800@souslelogo.com>
 <97242384-F180-4417-B2C4-53A2CE41DFD8@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <BCD01644-22D6-47A9-B19C-DCBF00532B50@all-auctions.com>

Hi Bob,

In the old days of punch cards, the universities would charge
for the number of seconds it took for your computer program
to run! When many people finally had their own personal computers
that whole idea went out the window.

Just my 2 cents. ;-)

Rick

> On Jan 21, 2025, at 11:04 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Just by way of reason, no business model would charge by the minute for uptime. 
> 
> Bob S


From jmac at consensustech.com  Tue Jan 21 13:15:00 2025
From: jmac at consensustech.com (Jim At Consensus)
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2025 10:15:00 -0800
Subject: Azure or AWS ?
In-Reply-To: <BCD01644-22D6-47A9-B19C-DCBF00532B50@all-auctions.com>
References: <BCD01644-22D6-47A9-B19C-DCBF00532B50@all-auctions.com>
Message-ID: <7BC41224-0F6D-4F2F-820F-DA3202A34D55@consensustech.com>

I remember those days (charge by runtime). We blew the civil engineering department’s annual computer budget on one poorly conceived analysis run. Ooops.
~Jim

Sent from Jim's iPhone
Please excuse brevity, typos and errors

> On Jan 21, 2025, at 9:02 AM, harrison--- via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Bob,
> 
> In the old days of punch cards, the universities would charge
> for the number of seconds it took for your computer program
> to run! When many people finally had their own personal computers
> that whole idea went out the window.
> 
> Just my 2 cents. ;-)
> 
> Rick
> 
>> On Jan 21, 2025, at 11:04 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Just by way of reason, no business model would charge by the minute for uptime.
>> 
>> Bob S
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

From mark at canelasoftware.com  Wed Jan 22 17:11:25 2025
From: mark at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2025 14:11:25 -0800
Subject: Azure or AWS ?
In-Reply-To: <c98282b5b52d2ebacf20b17509872800@souslelogo.com>
References: <c98282b5b52d2ebacf20b17509872800@souslelogo.com>
Message-ID: <F3B8C2F9-AC4C-4AFA-AF90-4BD821FF5BE5@canelasoftware.com>

Hi JBV,

We use Azure and Digital Ocean data centers.

As most of these services go, they charge by time. They will charge you as long as they are yours. That means you can turn them off and still be charged. You have to destroy your droplet or server to stop billing.

You can buy time from Azure for dormant servers (usually late at night or early morning). This may save you some money. It comes with added complexity as you cannot access them until Microsoft deems them ready for use.


Best regards,
Mark Talluto

appli.io <https://appli.io/>
livecloud.io <https://livecloud.io/>
nursenotes.net <https://nursenotes.net/>
canelasoftware.com <https://www.canelasoftware.com/>



> On Jan 18, 2025, at 12:49 AM, jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi list,
> 
> I have a small LC desktop app that sends requests via curl
> to ollama and some AI models. Everything runs fine on my Mac
> and now I would like to try to move it to the cloud, but I'm
> not sure which platform to choose.
> I have read a few blogs like this one :
> https://www.shiksha.com/online-courses/articles/aws-vs-azure/
> but still can't make my mind...
> Even in the cloud, the app will have very low trafic, the main
> reason behing moving to the cloud is that some models are too
> "big" to fit on my Mac.
> Furthermore, I am not sure of the way both platforms charge :
> one is per minute and the other per hour, but does it mean
> that they keep charging as long as an account exists, or only
> when some requests and computations take place ?
> 
> Does anyone have any experience on this matter ?
> Thank you in advance.
> 
> jbv
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From tom at makeshyft.com  Wed Jan 22 19:18:35 2025
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2025 19:18:35 -0500
Subject: Azure or AWS ?
In-Reply-To: <F3B8C2F9-AC4C-4AFA-AF90-4BD821FF5BE5@canelasoftware.com>
References: <c98282b5b52d2ebacf20b17509872800@souslelogo.com>
 <F3B8C2F9-AC4C-4AFA-AF90-4BD821FF5BE5@canelasoftware.com>
Message-ID: <CAPzQJL+PtV2iyu=ZfbzopzeAB2ZPEYCeWSNQ7cA_FmdqnvJ_qg@mail.gmail.com>

Appwrite.io is also an option, I have an implementation forauth, crud, and
object storage.
I like it because its Open source, cloud or self host, and u can migrate
between the two with click of button. (ish?)
Venture backed with lots of devs working on it.

On Wed, Jan 22, 2025 at 5:13 PM Mark Talluto via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi JBV,
>
> We use Azure and Digital Ocean data centers.
>
> As most of these services go, they charge by time. They will charge you as
> long as they are yours. That means you can turn them off and still be
> charged. You have to destroy your droplet or server to stop billing.
>
> You can buy time from Azure for dormant servers (usually late at night or
> early morning). This may save you some money. It comes with added
> complexity as you cannot access them until Microsoft deems them ready for
> use.
>
>
> Best regards,
> Mark Talluto
>
> appli.io <https://appli.io/>
> livecloud.io <https://livecloud.io/>
> nursenotes.net <https://nursenotes.net/>
> canelasoftware.com <https://www.canelasoftware.com/>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 18, 2025, at 12:49 AM, jbv via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi list,
> >
> > I have a small LC desktop app that sends requests via curl
> > to ollama and some AI models. Everything runs fine on my Mac
> > and now I would like to try to move it to the cloud, but I'm
> > not sure which platform to choose.
> > I have read a few blogs like this one :
> > https://www.shiksha.com/online-courses/articles/aws-vs-azure/
> > but still can't make my mind...
> > Even in the cloud, the app will have very low trafic, the main
> > reason behing moving to the cloud is that some models are too
> > "big" to fit on my Mac.
> > Furthermore, I am not sure of the way both platforms charge :
> > one is per minute and the other per hour, but does it mean
> > that they keep charging as long as an account exists, or only
> > when some requests and computations take place ?
> >
> > Does anyone have any experience on this matter ?
> > Thank you in advance.
> >
> > jbv
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From tom at makeshyft.com  Wed Jan 22 19:24:20 2025
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2025 19:24:20 -0500
Subject: Azure or AWS ?
In-Reply-To: <CAPzQJL+PtV2iyu=ZfbzopzeAB2ZPEYCeWSNQ7cA_FmdqnvJ_qg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c98282b5b52d2ebacf20b17509872800@souslelogo.com>
 <F3B8C2F9-AC4C-4AFA-AF90-4BD821FF5BE5@canelasoftware.com>
 <CAPzQJL+PtV2iyu=ZfbzopzeAB2ZPEYCeWSNQ7cA_FmdqnvJ_qg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPzQJLLQSRO98vTe2Rb_abUA=cJDzQpgHejrTt8bFHKRpu7ujQ@mail.gmail.com>

Though Appwrite is something you would put on top of aws or azure, or
digital ocean. But they also have very affortable managed cloud service
that saves u from doing the provisioning .......
So its not exactly the answer to your question, but appwrite is amazing and
i tell everyone about it.

On Wed, Jan 22, 2025 at 7:18 PM Tom Glod <tom at makeshyft.com> wrote:

> Appwrite.io is also an option, I have an implementation forauth, crud, and
> object storage.
> I like it because its Open source, cloud or self host, and u can migrate
> between the two with click of button. (ish?)
> Venture backed with lots of devs working on it.
>
> On Wed, Jan 22, 2025 at 5:13 PM Mark Talluto via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi JBV,
>>
>> We use Azure and Digital Ocean data centers.
>>
>> As most of these services go, they charge by time. They will charge you
>> as long as they are yours. That means you can turn them off and still be
>> charged. You have to destroy your droplet or server to stop billing.
>>
>> You can buy time from Azure for dormant servers (usually late at night or
>> early morning). This may save you some money. It comes with added
>> complexity as you cannot access them until Microsoft deems them ready for
>> use.
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Mark Talluto
>>
>> appli.io <https://appli.io/>
>> livecloud.io <https://livecloud.io/>
>> nursenotes.net <https://nursenotes.net/>
>> canelasoftware.com <https://www.canelasoftware.com/>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Jan 18, 2025, at 12:49 AM, jbv via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi list,
>> >
>> > I have a small LC desktop app that sends requests via curl
>> > to ollama and some AI models. Everything runs fine on my Mac
>> > and now I would like to try to move it to the cloud, but I'm
>> > not sure which platform to choose.
>> > I have read a few blogs like this one :
>> > https://www.shiksha.com/online-courses/articles/aws-vs-azure/
>> > but still can't make my mind...
>> > Even in the cloud, the app will have very low trafic, the main
>> > reason behing moving to the cloud is that some models are too
>> > "big" to fit on my Mac.
>> > Furthermore, I am not sure of the way both platforms charge :
>> > one is per minute and the other per hour, but does it mean
>> > that they keep charging as long as an account exists, or only
>> > when some requests and computations take place ?
>> >
>> > Does anyone have any experience on this matter ?
>> > Thank you in advance.
>> >
>> > jbv
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > use-livecode mailing list
>> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>

From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Wed Jan 22 19:37:47 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2025 00:37:47 +0000
Subject: Low-code dev tools checklist, Red Flags, LC Options to consider
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycOQZ-NzdjqSfMqFCqr9BD1rprqU1HGh-635ob9=bAqzLQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d8846a04-29fe-4dda-9698-3d6dd4fb0709@pair.com>
 <CADCoycOQZ-NzdjqSfMqFCqr9BD1rprqU1HGh-635ob9=bAqzLQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C53AF3FE-4C9B-434B-B150-81434D017950@iotecdigital.com>

Looks like javascript under the hood (of course it does.)

Bob S


On Jan 20, 2025, at 7:32 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

in case anyone cares, another low code tool, qodly, came out of beta, and
was released to the public with 1.0.0, today.
https://qodly.com<https://qodly.com/>


From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Thu Jan 23 09:01:30 2025
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2025 09:01:30 -0500
Subject: Low-code dev tools checklist, Red Flags, LC Options to consider
In-Reply-To: <C53AF3FE-4C9B-434B-B150-81434D017950@iotecdigital.com>
References: <d8846a04-29fe-4dda-9698-3d6dd4fb0709@pair.com>
 <CADCoycOQZ-NzdjqSfMqFCqr9BD1rprqU1HGh-635ob9=bAqzLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <C53AF3FE-4C9B-434B-B150-81434D017950@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycPBEo07bVBpadRRZOzF8wcjtCw5Urv6LMGkBe4YyyNtJQ@mail.gmail.com>

correct, the client framework is running js. the client side of your
project is low/no, so many of the actions you are invoking are inserted to
the widget via a menu. if the widget property editor does not get you what
you want, you are writing CSS.
the server code (where a lot of the action is taking place) is written in
an updated version of 4d's newer ORDA language.
if you remember 4d, it is procedural. the newer syntax is OO, with an ORM.
qodly takes that paradigm a step further and makes the syntax more
modern/JS'y.

From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu Jan 23 11:11:17 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2025 16:11:17 +0000
Subject: Low-code dev tools checklist, Red Flags, LC Options to consider
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycPBEo07bVBpadRRZOzF8wcjtCw5Urv6LMGkBe4YyyNtJQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d8846a04-29fe-4dda-9698-3d6dd4fb0709@pair.com>
 <CADCoycOQZ-NzdjqSfMqFCqr9BD1rprqU1HGh-635ob9=bAqzLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <C53AF3FE-4C9B-434B-B150-81434D017950@iotecdigital.com>
 <CADCoycPBEo07bVBpadRRZOzF8wcjtCw5Urv6LMGkBe4YyyNtJQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AD908E3F-4555-40B0-A614-C77464460E7C@iotecdigital.com>

Yeah we used to have 4th Dimension at a place I worked at many, MANY years ago. The whole flow chart paradigm kinda lost me. 

Bob S


> On Jan 23, 2025, at 6:01 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> correct, the client framework is running js. the client side of your
> project is low/no, so many of the actions you are invoking are inserted to
> the widget via a menu. if the widget property editor does not get you what
> you want, you are writing CSS.
> the server code (where a lot of the action is taking place) is written in
> an updated version of 4d's newer ORDA language.
> if you remember 4d, it is procedural. the newer syntax is OO, with an ORM.
> qodly takes that paradigm a step further and makes the syntax more
> modern/JS'y.
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From jbv at souslelogo.com  Thu Jan 23 12:44:35 2025
From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com)
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2025 12:44:35 -0500
Subject: Azure or AWS ?
In-Reply-To: <CAPzQJL+PtV2iyu=ZfbzopzeAB2ZPEYCeWSNQ7cA_FmdqnvJ_qg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c98282b5b52d2ebacf20b17509872800@souslelogo.com>
 <F3B8C2F9-AC4C-4AFA-AF90-4BD821FF5BE5@canelasoftware.com>
 <CAPzQJL+PtV2iyu=ZfbzopzeAB2ZPEYCeWSNQ7cA_FmdqnvJ_qg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c62a8e4cfcfb672c22607986b4698a3f@souslelogo.com>

For the record, I tried to register at Azure to test their free offer,
but the registration includes a tel.# validation that doesn't work...
So I tried AWS for their free offer, registration went fine, but their
free offer doesn't include GPU usage.
So now I am trying Google Colab.

Regarding Appwrite.io, I might be wrong, but I didn't see any GPU
possibilities in their offers...


Le 2025-01-22 19:18, Tom Glod via use-livecode a crit :
> Appwrite.io is also an option, I have an implementation forauth, crud, 
> and
> object storage.
> I like it because its Open source, cloud or self host, and u can 
> migrate
> between the two with click of button. (ish?)
> Venture backed with lots of devs working on it.
> 


From jbv at souslelogo.com  Thu Jan 23 12:46:41 2025
From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com)
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2025 12:46:41 -0500
Subject: LC and embedding
Message-ID: <638518fad3ca81e0d23b09fabc4fd661@souslelogo.com>

Hi again list,

Has anyone tried to do text embedding from LC on
a CPU-only device ?
Thank you in advance.

jbv


From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Thu Jan 23 15:07:16 2025
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2025 15:07:16 -0500
Subject: Low-code dev tools checklist, Red Flags, LC Options to consider
In-Reply-To: <AD908E3F-4555-40B0-A614-C77464460E7C@iotecdigital.com>
References: <d8846a04-29fe-4dda-9698-3d6dd4fb0709@pair.com>
 <CADCoycOQZ-NzdjqSfMqFCqr9BD1rprqU1HGh-635ob9=bAqzLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <C53AF3FE-4C9B-434B-B150-81434D017950@iotecdigital.com>
 <CADCoycPBEo07bVBpadRRZOzF8wcjtCw5Urv6LMGkBe4YyyNtJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <AD908E3F-4555-40B0-A614-C77464460E7C@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycPsnzexbdTa=E_e7e8FWvYh48AZt1MueCQ1L2jRyJ=_5w@mail.gmail.com>

dude, 4d hasn't used flowcharts since around 1992, and at that time, it was
optional (instead of coding methods like you would usually expect)
you are O-L-D.

On Thu, Jan 23, 2025 at 11:12 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Yeah we used to have 4th Dimension at a place I worked at many, MANY years
> ago. The whole flow chart paradigm kinda lost me.
>
> Bob S
>
>
> > On Jan 23, 2025, at 6:01 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > correct, the client framework is running js. the client side of your
> > project is low/no, so many of the actions you are invoking are inserted
> to
> > the widget via a menu. if the widget property editor does not get you
> what
> > you want, you are writing CSS.
> > the server code (where a lot of the action is taking place) is written in
> > an updated version of 4d's newer ORDA language.
> > if you remember 4d, it is procedural. the newer syntax is OO, with an
> ORM.
> > qodly takes that paradigm a step further and makes the syntax more
> > modern/JS'y.
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Thu Jan 23 15:11:45 2025
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2025 15:11:45 -0500
Subject: Low-code dev tools checklist, Red Flags, LC Options to consider
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycPsnzexbdTa=E_e7e8FWvYh48AZt1MueCQ1L2jRyJ=_5w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d8846a04-29fe-4dda-9698-3d6dd4fb0709@pair.com>
 <CADCoycOQZ-NzdjqSfMqFCqr9BD1rprqU1HGh-635ob9=bAqzLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <C53AF3FE-4C9B-434B-B150-81434D017950@iotecdigital.com>
 <CADCoycPBEo07bVBpadRRZOzF8wcjtCw5Urv6LMGkBe4YyyNtJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <AD908E3F-4555-40B0-A614-C77464460E7C@iotecdigital.com>
 <CADCoycPsnzexbdTa=E_e7e8FWvYh48AZt1MueCQ1L2jRyJ=_5w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycMim0SXeFcEeB0xcHZVnd+3e1PU9jZtPdOYjACsOX=aGQ@mail.gmail.com>

i mean, i'm kinda old, which is how i remember the dates.
that, and my first job out of B-school was a combination
hypercard/supercard/4d nerd.
come to think of it, i think 4dv2 was 1990, and, at that time, flowcharts
were optional.

On Thu, Jan 23, 2025 at 3:07 PM Mike Kerner <MikeKerner at roadrunner.com>
wrote:

> dude, 4d hasn't used flowcharts since around 1992, and at that time, it
> was optional (instead of coding methods like you would usually expect)
> you are O-L-D.
>
> On Thu, Jan 23, 2025 at 11:12 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> Yeah we used to have 4th Dimension at a place I worked at many, MANY
>> years ago. The whole flow chart paradigm kinda lost me.
>>
>> Bob S
>>
>>
>> > On Jan 23, 2025, at 6:01 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > correct, the client framework is running js. the client side of your
>> > project is low/no, so many of the actions you are invoking are inserted
>> to
>> > the widget via a menu. if the widget property editor does not get you
>> what
>> > you want, you are writing CSS.
>> > the server code (where a lot of the action is taking place) is written
>> in
>> > an updated version of 4d's newer ORDA language.
>> > if you remember 4d, it is procedural. the newer syntax is OO, with an
>> ORM.
>> > qodly takes that paradigm a step further and makes the syntax more
>> > modern/JS'y.
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > use-livecode mailing list
>> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>    and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Jan 24 00:08:14 2025
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2025 23:08:14 -0600
Subject: Low-code dev tools checklist, Red Flags, LC Options to consider
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycMim0SXeFcEeB0xcHZVnd+3e1PU9jZtPdOYjACsOX=aGQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d8846a04-29fe-4dda-9698-3d6dd4fb0709@pair.com>
 <CADCoycOQZ-NzdjqSfMqFCqr9BD1rprqU1HGh-635ob9=bAqzLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <C53AF3FE-4C9B-434B-B150-81434D017950@iotecdigital.com>
 <CADCoycPBEo07bVBpadRRZOzF8wcjtCw5Urv6LMGkBe4YyyNtJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <AD908E3F-4555-40B0-A614-C77464460E7C@iotecdigital.com>
 <CADCoycPsnzexbdTa=E_e7e8FWvYh48AZt1MueCQ1L2jRyJ=_5w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADCoycMim0SXeFcEeB0xcHZVnd+3e1PU9jZtPdOYjACsOX=aGQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <19496b5f230.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

Anyone who cut their teeth on HyperCard is old now. <cough>

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On January 23, 2025 2:14:17 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> i mean, i'm kinda old, which is how i remember the dates.
> that, and my first job out of B-school was a combination
> hypercard/supercard/4d nerd.
> come to think of it, i think 4dv2 was 1990, and, at that time, flowcharts
> were optional.
>
> On Thu, Jan 23, 2025 at 3:07PM Mike Kerner <MikeKerner at roadrunner.com>
> wrote:
>
>> dude, 4d hasn't used flowcharts since around 1992, and at that time, it
>> was optional (instead of coding methods like you would usually expect)
>> you are O-L-D.
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 23, 2025 at 11:12AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah we used to have 4th Dimension at a place I worked at many, MANY
>>> years ago. The whole flow chart paradigm kinda lost me.
>>>
>>> Bob S
>>>
>>>
>>> > On Jan 23, 2025, at 6:01 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > correct, the client framework is running js. the client side of your
>>> > project is low/no, so many of the actions you are invoking are inserted
>>> to
>>> > the widget via a menu. if the widget property editor does not get you
>>> what
>>> > you want, you are writing CSS.
>>> > the server code (where a lot of the action is taking place) is written
>>> in
>>> > an updated version of 4d's newer ORDA language.
>>> > if you remember 4d, it is procedural. the newer syntax is OO, with an
>>> ORM.
>>> > qodly takes that paradigm a step further and makes the syntax more
>>> > modern/JS'y.
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > use-livecode mailing list
>>> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
>> On the second day, God created the oceans.
>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>>    and did a little diving.
>> And God said, "This is good."
>>
>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>   and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Jan 24 11:21:19 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2025 16:21:19 +0000
Subject: Low-code dev tools checklist, Red Flags, LC Options to consider
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycPsnzexbdTa=E_e7e8FWvYh48AZt1MueCQ1L2jRyJ=_5w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d8846a04-29fe-4dda-9698-3d6dd4fb0709@pair.com>
 <CADCoycOQZ-NzdjqSfMqFCqr9BD1rprqU1HGh-635ob9=bAqzLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <C53AF3FE-4C9B-434B-B150-81434D017950@iotecdigital.com>
 <CADCoycPBEo07bVBpadRRZOzF8wcjtCw5Urv6LMGkBe4YyyNtJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <AD908E3F-4555-40B0-A614-C77464460E7C@iotecdigital.com>
 <CADCoycPsnzexbdTa=E_e7e8FWvYh48AZt1MueCQ1L2jRyJ=_5w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BDBA3611-2CC2-4972-B746-9796D3B5A9C4@iotecdigital.com>

D-U-H! :-)

Bob S


> On Jan 23, 2025, at 12:07 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> dude, 4d hasn't used flowcharts since around 1992, and at that time, it was
> optional (instead of coding methods like you would usually expect)
> you are O-L-D.
> 
> On Thu, Jan 23, 2025 at 11:12 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Yeah we used to have 4th Dimension at a place I worked at many, MANY years
>> ago. The whole flow chart paradigm kinda lost me.
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 23, 2025, at 6:01 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> correct, the client framework is running js. the client side of your
>>> project is low/no, so many of the actions you are invoking are inserted
>> to
>>> the widget via a menu. if the widget property editor does not get you
>> what
>>> you want, you are writing CSS.
>>> the server code (where a lot of the action is taking place) is written in
>>> an updated version of 4d's newer ORDA language.
>>> if you remember 4d, it is procedural. the newer syntax is OO, with an
>> ORM.
>>> qodly takes that paradigm a step further and makes the syntax more
>>> modern/JS'y.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>   and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Jan 24 11:24:16 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2025 16:24:16 +0000
Subject: Low-code dev tools checklist, Red Flags, LC Options to consider
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycMim0SXeFcEeB0xcHZVnd+3e1PU9jZtPdOYjACsOX=aGQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d8846a04-29fe-4dda-9698-3d6dd4fb0709@pair.com>
 <CADCoycOQZ-NzdjqSfMqFCqr9BD1rprqU1HGh-635ob9=bAqzLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <C53AF3FE-4C9B-434B-B150-81434D017950@iotecdigital.com>
 <CADCoycPBEo07bVBpadRRZOzF8wcjtCw5Urv6LMGkBe4YyyNtJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <AD908E3F-4555-40B0-A614-C77464460E7C@iotecdigital.com>
 <CADCoycPsnzexbdTa=E_e7e8FWvYh48AZt1MueCQ1L2jRyJ=_5w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADCoycMim0SXeFcEeB0xcHZVnd+3e1PU9jZtPdOYjACsOX=aGQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DEB8AF4C-E8FB-495E-AD5F-7F19894E97A8@iotecdigital.com>

The first viable app I created for use for others was a hypercard stack where a person entered responses from listeners for a syndicated radio station 501c3. Each month the user would then run a report that listed income generated, as well as money owed. (Sometimes stations paid us, sometimes we paid the station.) I even had it writing checks.

Bob S


On Jan 23, 2025, at 12:11 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

i mean, i'm kinda old, which is how i remember the dates.
that, and my first job out of B-school was a combination
hypercard/supercard/4d nerd.
come to think of it, i think 4dv2 was 1990, and, at that time, flowcharts
were optional.


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Jan 24 11:25:13 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2025 16:25:13 +0000
Subject: Low-code dev tools checklist, Red Flags, LC Options to consider
In-Reply-To: <19496b5f230.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <d8846a04-29fe-4dda-9698-3d6dd4fb0709@pair.com>
 <CADCoycOQZ-NzdjqSfMqFCqr9BD1rprqU1HGh-635ob9=bAqzLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <C53AF3FE-4C9B-434B-B150-81434D017950@iotecdigital.com>
 <CADCoycPBEo07bVBpadRRZOzF8wcjtCw5Urv6LMGkBe4YyyNtJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <AD908E3F-4555-40B0-A614-C77464460E7C@iotecdigital.com>
 <CADCoycPsnzexbdTa=E_e7e8FWvYh48AZt1MueCQ1L2jRyJ=_5w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADCoycMim0SXeFcEeB0xcHZVnd+3e1PU9jZtPdOYjACsOX=aGQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <19496b5f230.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <82F2A3BF-37D2-46BC-8736-29663287811F@iotecdigital.com>

Yeah. <looks sideways> <coughs>

Bob S


> On Jan 23, 2025, at 9:08 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Anyone who cut their teeth on HyperCard is old now. <cough>
> 
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On January 23, 2025 2:14:17 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> i mean, i'm kinda old, which is how i remember the dates.
>> that, and my first job out of B-school was a combination
>> hypercard/supercard/4d nerd.
>> come to think of it, i think 4dv2 was 1990, and, at that time, flowcharts
>> were optional.
>> 
>> On Thu, Jan 23, 2025 at 3:07 PM Mike Kerner <MikeKerner at roadrunner.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> dude, 4d hasn't used flowcharts since around 1992, and at that time, it
>>> was optional (instead of coding methods like you would usually expect)
>>> you are O-L-D.
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Jan 23, 2025 at 11:12 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Yeah we used to have 4th Dimension at a place I worked at many, MANY
>>>> years ago. The whole flow chart paradigm kinda lost me.
>>>> 
>>>> Bob S
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> > On Jan 23, 2025, at 6:01 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > correct, the client framework is running js. the client side of your
>>>> > project is low/no, so many of the actions you are invoking are inserted
>>>> to
>>>> > the widget via a menu. if the widget property editor does not get you
>>>> what
>>>> > you want, you are writing CSS.
>>>> > the server code (where a lot of the action is taking place) is written
>>>> in
>>>> > an updated version of 4d's newer ORDA language.
>>>> > if you remember 4d, it is procedural. the newer syntax is OO, with an
>>>> ORM.
>>>> > qodly takes that paradigm a step further and makes the syntax more
>>>> > modern/JS'y.
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > use-livecode mailing list
>>>> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
>>> On the second day, God created the oceans.
>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>>>   and did a little diving.
>>> And God said, "This is good."
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
>> On the second day, God created the oceans.
>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>>  and did a little diving.
>> And God said, "This is good."
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Jan 24 12:06:34 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2025 17:06:34 +0000
Subject: The Files Function borked?
In-Reply-To: <2658d163-391e-459a-a9e3-3212d06d9620@pair.com>
References: <5619D0BB-FCBF-4C11-B363-76D4DC170E8D@iotecdigital.com>
 <2658d163-391e-459a-a9e3-3212d06d9620@pair.com>
Message-ID: <1A239072-2F40-4A5E-96B3-0ED9AA8F191F@iotecdigital.com>

When I use answer file on a parallels share folder (one from the MacOS) I get something like this: 

C:/Mac/Home/Desktop/patch1.hex

When I use the dir command it correctly resolves the path, but cannot find the file:

U:\>dir /T:W "C:/Mac/Home/Desktop/patch1.hex"
 Volume in drive C has no label.
 Volume Serial Number is D892-E6EA

 Directory of C:\Mac\Home\Desktop

File Not Found

U:\>

But this works:

U:\>dir /T:W "\\Mac\Home\Desktop\patch1.hex"
 Volume in drive \\Mac\Home is Shared Folders
 Volume Serial Number is 0000-0000

 Directory of \\Mac\Home\Desktop

10/20/2023  12:06 AM               408 patch1.hex
               1 File(s)            408 bytes
               0 Dir(s)  393,116,905,472 bytes free

So in the first example it looks like Windows correctly resolves the file path, but then cannot find the file! 

I think what I need is a way to reliably convert a file path from the format that Livecode uses to the format the command consolve can use. I could have sworn that LC had a function to convert to and from Windows file paths, but I can’t find it in the dictionary. I’ll probably have to roll my own. 

Bob S


> On Jan 15, 2025, at 12:13 PM, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Bob:
> 
> > I keep getting “file not found.”
> 
> > answer file "Select file"
> > put it into tFileName
> > put "dir /T:W "  & quote & tFileName & quote into tCmd
> > put shell(tCmd)
> 
> Whaaa???
> 
> Fix your /'s!
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Curry Kenworthy
> 
> Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
> "PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
> https://livecodeconsulting.com/
> 
> More news after recuperating a bit....
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Jan 24 12:24:37 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2025 17:24:37 +0000
Subject: The Files Function borked?
In-Reply-To: <1A239072-2F40-4A5E-96B3-0ED9AA8F191F@iotecdigital.com>
References: <5619D0BB-FCBF-4C11-B363-76D4DC170E8D@iotecdigital.com>
 <2658d163-391e-459a-a9e3-3212d06d9620@pair.com>
 <1A239072-2F40-4A5E-96B3-0ED9AA8F191F@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <EBF26142-FCFC-4F2E-A5A4-F91241891BDD@iotecdigital.com>

Okay I see on windows all I need to do is replace slash with backslash. Too easy. :-)

Bob S

> On Jan 24, 2025, at 9:06 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Jan 24 17:26:14 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2025 22:26:14 +0000
Subject: Detailed File Info
Message-ID: <4940616C-E18A-4A3A-8914-72921B610267@iotecdigital.com>

Hi all. 

I’ve been wanting to write a function for getting the size and the last modified datetime of one specific file. I finally figured out how to do it. Here’s the function. Enjoy. 

function getDetailedFileInfo pFilePath
   -- new method use shell
   if the platform contains "win" then   
      replace slash with backslash in pFilePath
      put "dir /T:W "  & quote & pFilePath & quote into tShellCommand
      put shell(tShellCommand) into tResult
      put word 1 of line 6 of tResult into tDate
      put formatDate(tDate, "sql date") into tDate
      put word 2 of line 6 of tResult into tTime
      put formatTime(tTime, "sql time") into tTime
      put tDate && tTime into tDateTime
      put word 4 of line 6 of tResult into tFileSize
      replace comma with empty in tFileSize
      put tFileSize *1000 into tFileSize
   else
      put "getFileInfo -m" && quote & pFilePath & quote into tShellCommand
      put shell(tShellCommand) into tResult
      put formatDate(word 1 of tResult, "sql date") && \
            formatTime(word 2 of tResult, "sql time") into tDateTime
      put "echo "& quote & "$(( $(stat -f'%z' filename)))" & quote into tShellCommand
      replace fileName with "'" & pFilePath & "'" in tShellCommand
      put word 1 of shell(tShellCommand) into tFileSize
   end if
   
   put tFilePath & comma & tFileSize & comma & tDateTime & cr after tNewDetailedFiles
   return tNewDetailedFiles
end getDetailedFileInfo

FUNCTION formatDate theDate, theFormat
   /*
   Accepts any valid date for the first parameter. If not a valid date, it simply returns
   what was passed. Second parameter can be any of the following:
   sql date: date in the yyyy-mm-dd format
   short date, abbreviated date, internet date, long date: LC versions of the same
   julian date: Julian number based on (I believe) Jacques formula
   standard date: The date in the form of "mm/dd/yyyy"
   */
   
   put theDate into tSavedDate
   put the itemdelimiter into theOldDelim
   set the itemdelimiter to "-"
   
   IF the length of item 1 of theDate = 4 AND \
         the number of items of theDate = 3 AND \
         item 1 of theDate is a number AND \
         item 2 of theDate is a number AND \
         item 3 of theDate is a number THEN
      put item 2 of theDate & "/" & \
            item 3 of theDate & "/" & \
            item 1 of theDate into theDate
   END IF
   
   -- replace "." with "/" in theDate
   convert theDate to dateitems
   set the itemdelimiter to theOldDelim
   
   --   if the number of items of theDate <> 7 then
   --      answer "'" & theDate & "' is not a valid date format!"
   --      return tSavedDate
   --   end if
   
   SWITCH word 1 of theFormat
      CASE "sql"
         /*
         put item 1 of theDate & "-" & \
               format("%02d",item 2 of theDate) & "-" & \
               format("%02d",item 3 of theDate) into theDate
         */
         put format("%s-%02d-%02d", item 1 of theDate, item 2 of theDate, \
               item 3 of theDate) into theDate
         break
      CASE "short"
         convert theDate from dateitems to short date
         break
      CASE "abbreviated"
         convert theDate from dateitems to abbreviated date
         break
      CASE "abbr"
         convert theDate from dateitems to abbreviated date
         break
      CASE "internet"
         convert theDate from dateitems to internet date
         break
      CASE "long"
         convert theDate from dateitems to long date
         break
      CASE "julian"
         put the date into theDate
         convert theDate to dateItems
         IF  ((item 2 of theDate = 1) OR (item 2 of theDate = 2)) THEN
            put 1 into theDay
         ELSE
            put 0 into theDay
         END IF
         put item 1 of theDate + 4800 - theDay into theYear
         put item 2 of theDate + (12 * theDay) - 3 into theMonth
         put item 3 of theDate + \
               ((153 * theMonth + 2) div 5) + \
               (365 * theYear) + \
               (theYear div 4) - \
               (theYear div 100) + \
               (theYear div 400) - \
               32045 into theDate
         break
      case "standard"
         put format("%02d/%02d/%04d", item 2 of theDate, item 3 of theDate, \
               item 1 of theDate) into theDate
         break
      default 
         put tSavedDate into theDate
   END SWITCH
   
   return theDate
END formatDate

FUNCTION formatTime theTime, tOutFormat, tInFormat
   /*
   formatTime accepts any valid time and returns the form of the time specified in the second parameter.
   The valid formats are:
   sql time: hh:mm:ss (Note: combining sql date from the formatDate() function with the
   sql time will produce a valid SQL date time type).
   short time: LC short time format
   abbreviated time: LC abbr time format (same as short time)
   long time: LC long time format
   seconds: the number of seconds since the prior midnight
   military: the military time 00:00 - 23:59
   */
   
   IF theTime is empty THEN return empty
   if tOutFormat is empty then return theTime
   if tInFormat is empty then put "short time" into tInFormat
   
   if tOutFormat is among the items of "short time,long time,abbreviated time,seconds" then
      put "convert theTime from " & tInFormat & " to " & tOutFormat into tCommand
      do tCommand
      return theTime
   end if
   
   -- strip leading and trailing spaces
   put word 1 to -1 of theTime into theTime
   
   -- replace spaces with colons
   replace space with colon in theTime
   replace ":AM" with " AM" in theTime
   replace ":PM" with " PM" in theTime
   
   -- convert integer to time
   if theTime is an integer then \
         put theTime & ":" & "00" into theTime
   
   -- determine if seconds are in theTime
   set the itemDelimiter to ":"
   put the number of items of theTime >2 into tUseSeconds
   set the itemDelimiter to ","
   
   set the numberformat to "00"
   SWITCH word 1 of tOutFormat
      CASE "sql"
         convert theTime to dateitems
         put (item 4 of theTime +0) & ":" & \
               (item 5 of theTime +0) & ":" & \
               (item 6 of theTime +0) into theTime
         break
      CASE "short"
         convert theTime to short time
         break
      CASE "abbreviated"
         convert theTime to abbreviated time
         break
      CASE "long"
         convert theTime to long time
         break
      CASE "seconds"
         convert theTime to seconds
         break
      CASE "military"
         put theTime into tMilitaryTime
         convert tMilitaryTime to dateitems
         put 0 + item 4 of tMilitaryTime & ":" & 0 + item 5 of tMilitaryTime into theTime
         if tUseSeconds is true then \
               put ":" & 0 + item 6 of tMilitaryTime after theTime
         break
   END SWITCH
   
   return theTime
END formatTime

Bob S

From curry at pair.com  Sun Jan 26 17:32:03 2025
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2025 17:32:03 -0500
Subject: The Files Function borked?
In-Reply-To: <EBF26142-FCFC-4F2E-A5A4-F91241891BDD@iotecdigital.com>
References: <EBF26142-FCFC-4F2E-A5A4-F91241891BDD@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <47f25424-0d8b-45a8-8720-d79426b2966e@pair.com>

Curry:

 > Fix your /'s!

Bob:

 > all I need to do is replace slash with backslash. Too easy. :-)

You're welcome. See, a one liner - not War and Peace!

Best wishes,

Curry K.


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Mon Jan 27 12:17:42 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2025 17:17:42 +0000
Subject: Popup Button bug??
Message-ID: <89890A6A-0504-417D-A765-A29ECB9B1433@iotecdigital.com>

Hi all. 

I have the command: 
popup pMenuButton at pLocation

pMenuButton contains:
button “mnuLocations"

pLocation contains: 
55,303

I am getting the error: 
stack "moduleCardBehavior": execution error at line 360 (subwindow: can't find stack or button), char 1

I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. What in the name of all <fill in the blank> is going on here??

Bob S


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Mon Jan 27 12:27:03 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2025 17:27:03 +0000
Subject: Popup Button bug??
In-Reply-To: <89890A6A-0504-417D-A765-A29ECB9B1433@iotecdigital.com>
References: <89890A6A-0504-417D-A765-A29ECB9B1433@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <AF356B85-BE50-455E-BBEC-19D47EA4F318@iotecdigital.com>

Okay, it appears that this command can only be used in a mouseDown handler. That isn’t entirely clear in the dictionary. I am simply trying to present a menu to the user. I will use a different kind of menu button then, and just show and hide the button. 

Bob S


> On Jan 27, 2025, at 9:17 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi all. 
> 
> I have the command: 
> popup pMenuButton at pLocation
> 
> pMenuButton contains:
> button “mnuLocations"
> 
> pLocation contains: 
> 55,303
> 
> I am getting the error: 
> stack "moduleCardBehavior": execution error at line 360 (subwindow: can't find stack or button), char 1
> 
> I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. What in the name of all <fill in the blank> is going on here??
> 
> Bob S
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From craig at starfirelighting.com  Mon Jan 27 12:28:30 2025
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2025 12:28:30 -0500
Subject: Popup Button bug??
In-Reply-To: <89890A6A-0504-417D-A765-A29ECB9B1433@iotecdigital.com>
References: <89890A6A-0504-417D-A765-A29ECB9B1433@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <13A570DF-C22D-4207-AF6F-9E8B306FC26E@starfirelighting.com>

Bob .

“popup” is not a command that creates a button. It only works with an existing button, opening its contents at a location of your choice. That button can be hidden, but its menu will appear anyway.

Craig

> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:17 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi all. 
> 
> I have the command: 
> popup pMenuButton at pLocation
> 
> pMenuButton contains:
> button “mnuLocations"
> 
> pLocation contains: 
> 55,303
> 
> I am getting the error: 
> stack "moduleCardBehavior": execution error at line 360 (subwindow: can't find stack or button), char 1
> 
> I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. What in the name of all <fill in the blank> is going on here??
> 
> Bob S
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From paul at researchware.com  Mon Jan 27 12:29:47 2025
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2025 12:29:47 -0500
Subject: Popup Button bug??
In-Reply-To: <89890A6A-0504-417D-A765-A29ECB9B1433@iotecdigital.com>
References: <89890A6A-0504-417D-A765-A29ECB9B1433@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <0498d82b-fa0b-4d4a-ad1b-65c3f2037b68@researchware.com>

Is this new and occurring on macOS Sequoia?

I ask as I have some popup (and other) menu weirdness happening that is 
new to Sequoia.


On 1/27/2025 12:17 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi all.
>
> I have the command:
> popup pMenuButton at pLocation
>
> pMenuButton contains:
> button mnuLocations"
>
> pLocation contains:
> 55,303
>
> I am getting the error:
> stack "moduleCardBehavior": execution error at line 360 (subwindow: can't find stack or button), char 1
>
> I assure everyone there *IS* a button called mnuLocations. What in the name of all <fill in the blank> is going on here??
>
> Bob S
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Mon Jan 27 12:31:59 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2025 17:31:59 +0000
Subject: Popup Button bug??
In-Reply-To: <13A570DF-C22D-4207-AF6F-9E8B306FC26E@starfirelighting.com>
References: <89890A6A-0504-417D-A765-A29ECB9B1433@iotecdigital.com>
 <13A570DF-C22D-4207-AF6F-9E8B306FC26E@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <244221DA-4E41-4608-BC54-B863A9888D2E@iotecdigital.com>

Understood. That is why I wrote, I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. As I posted later, this command can only be used in a mouseDown handler. I think I knew this many, many years ago, but I forgot. 

Bob S


> On Jan 27, 2025, at 9:28 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Bob .
> 
> “popup” is not a command that creates a button. It only works with an existing button, opening its contents at a location of your choice. That button can be hidden, but its menu will appear anyway.
> 
> Craig
> 
>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:17 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all. 
>> 
>> I have the command: 
>> popup pMenuButton at pLocation
>> 
>> pMenuButton contains:
>> button “mnuLocations"
>> 
>> pLocation contains: 
>> 55,303
>> 
>> I am getting the error: 
>> stack "moduleCardBehavior": execution error at line 360 (subwindow: can't find stack or button), char 1
>> 
>> I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. What in the name of all <fill in the blank> is going on here??
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From craig at starfirelighting.com  Mon Jan 27 12:39:42 2025
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2025 12:39:42 -0500
Subject: Popup Button bug??
In-Reply-To: <244221DA-4E41-4608-BC54-B863A9888D2E@iotecdigital.com>
References: <89890A6A-0504-417D-A765-A29ECB9B1433@iotecdigital.com>
 <13A570DF-C22D-4207-AF6F-9E8B306FC26E@starfirelighting.com>
 <244221DA-4E41-4608-BC54-B863A9888D2E@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <743BAC20-6A22-43D2-B3BC-DF6B2C14DA3F@starfirelighting.com>

Bob.

It works just fine in a mouseUp handler as well. I just did it. 

Craig

> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:31 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Understood. That is why I wrote, I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. As I posted later, this command can only be used in a mouseDown handler. I think I knew this many, many years ago, but I forgot. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 9:28 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Bob .
>> 
>> “popup” is not a command that creates a button. It only works with an existing button, opening its contents at a location of your choice. That button can be hidden, but its menu will appear anyway.
>> 
>> Craig
>> 
>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:17 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all. 
>>> 
>>> I have the command: 
>>> popup pMenuButton at pLocation
>>> 
>>> pMenuButton contains:
>>> button “mnuLocations"
>>> 
>>> pLocation contains: 
>>> 55,303
>>> 
>>> I am getting the error: 
>>> stack "moduleCardBehavior": execution error at line 360 (subwindow: can't find stack or button), char 1
>>> 
>>> I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. What in the name of all <fill in the blank> is going on here??
>>> 
>>> Bob S
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From craig at starfirelighting.com  Mon Jan 27 12:47:21 2025
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2025 12:47:21 -0500
Subject: Popup Button bug??
In-Reply-To: <743BAC20-6A22-43D2-B3BC-DF6B2C14DA3F@starfirelighting.com>
References: <89890A6A-0504-417D-A765-A29ECB9B1433@iotecdigital.com>
 <13A570DF-C22D-4207-AF6F-9E8B306FC26E@starfirelighting.com>
 <244221DA-4E41-4608-BC54-B863A9888D2E@iotecdigital.com>
 <743BAC20-6A22-43D2-B3BC-DF6B2C14DA3F@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <B659E1F8-4465-4463-80FF-55C5DA263184@starfirelighting.com>

It also works with any style of menu-style button, combobox, pulldown, etc.

Craig

> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:39 PM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Bob.
> 
> It works just fine in a mouseUp handler as well. I just did it. 
> 
> Craig
> 
>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:31 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Understood. That is why I wrote, I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. As I posted later, this command can only be used in a mouseDown handler. I think I knew this many, many years ago, but I forgot. 
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 9:28 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Bob .
>>> 
>>> “popup” is not a command that creates a button. It only works with an existing button, opening its contents at a location of your choice. That button can be hidden, but its menu will appear anyway.
>>> 
>>> Craig
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:17 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi all. 
>>>> 
>>>> I have the command: 
>>>> popup pMenuButton at pLocation
>>>> 
>>>> pMenuButton contains:
>>>> button “mnuLocations"
>>>> 
>>>> pLocation contains: 
>>>> 55,303
>>>> 
>>>> I am getting the error: 
>>>> stack "moduleCardBehavior": execution error at line 360 (subwindow: can't find stack or button), char 1
>>>> 
>>>> I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. What in the name of all <fill in the blank> is going on here??
>>>> 
>>>> Bob S
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Mon Jan 27 14:01:44 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2025 19:01:44 +0000
Subject: Popup Button bug??
In-Reply-To: <743BAC20-6A22-43D2-B3BC-DF6B2C14DA3F@starfirelighting.com>
References: <89890A6A-0504-417D-A765-A29ECB9B1433@iotecdigital.com>
 <13A570DF-C22D-4207-AF6F-9E8B306FC26E@starfirelighting.com>
 <244221DA-4E41-4608-BC54-B863A9888D2E@iotecdigital.com>
 <743BAC20-6A22-43D2-B3BC-DF6B2C14DA3F@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <F5549BD0-FA11-40AD-A6A0-135272E27304@iotecdigital.com>

Interesting, the dictionary didn’t mention mouseUp. But some kind of mouse up or down handler has to be what makes the call. 

It turns out that rolling your own blocking popup “menu” is not very straightforward. Here is what I came up with: 

on popupMenu pMenu, pItems, pLocation
   -- anything less than 3 lines and the scrollbar does not display correctly
   if the number of lines of pItems >3 and \
         the last char pItems is cr then \
         delete last char of pItems
   
   set the text of pMenu to pItems
   set the height of pMenu to \
         min(the formattedHeight of pMenu, 178) — for me 178 is 10 lines of formattedText YMMV
   set the width of pMenu to the formattedWidth of pMenu
   set the topLeft of pMenu to pLocation
   show pMenu 
   focus on pMenu
   set the hilitedLine of pMenu to empty -- because focus will auto-select line 1
   wait until the visible of pMenu is false with messages
end popupMenu


— in the script of a Scrolling List Field
local lParentCard

on selectionChanged
   put getParentCard(the long id of me) into lParentCard
   put the hilitedLine of me into tLine
   put line tLine of the text of me into tItem
   set the currentLocation of lParentCard to tItem — or whatever you want to do with tItem
   hide me
end selectionChanged

on escapeKey
   selectionChanged
end escapeKey

on focusOut
   selectionChanged
end focusOut

FUNCTION getParentCard pObjectID
   put offset("card id", pObjectID) into tStartChar
   put char tStartChar to -1 of pObjectID into tCardID
   return tCardID
END getParentCard

Bob S

> On Jan 27, 2025, at 9:39 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Bob.
> 
> It works just fine in a mouseUp handler as well. I just did it. 
> 
> Craig
> 
>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:31 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Understood. That is why I wrote, I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. As I posted later, this command can only be used in a mouseDown handler. I think I knew this many, many years ago, but I forgot. 
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 9:28 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Bob .
>>> 
>>> “popup” is not a command that creates a button. It only works with an existing button, opening its contents at a location of your choice. That button can be hidden, but its menu will appear anyway.
>>> 
>>> Craig
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:17 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi all. 
>>>> 
>>>> I have the command: 
>>>> popup pMenuButton at pLocation
>>>> 
>>>> pMenuButton contains:
>>>> button “mnuLocations"
>>>> 
>>>> pLocation contains: 
>>>> 55,303
>>>> 
>>>> I am getting the error: 
>>>> stack "moduleCardBehavior": execution error at line 360 (subwindow: can't find stack or button), char 1
>>>> 
>>>> I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. What in the name of all <fill in the blank> is going on here??
>>>> 
>>>> Bob S
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From craig at starfirelighting.com  Mon Jan 27 15:27:32 2025
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2025 15:27:32 -0500
Subject: Popup Button bug??
In-Reply-To: <F5549BD0-FA11-40AD-A6A0-135272E27304@iotecdigital.com>
References: <89890A6A-0504-417D-A765-A29ECB9B1433@iotecdigital.com>
 <13A570DF-C22D-4207-AF6F-9E8B306FC26E@starfirelighting.com>
 <244221DA-4E41-4608-BC54-B863A9888D2E@iotecdigital.com>
 <743BAC20-6A22-43D2-B3BC-DF6B2C14DA3F@starfirelighting.com>
 <F5549BD0-FA11-40AD-A6A0-135272E27304@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <68662892-00A0-493A-97D2-27038664B20D@starfirelighting.com>

Bob.

What are you trying to accomplish that the native buttons do not do for you? The popUp command, to me, is simply a tool to invoke a display of resident menuItems that do not necessarily have to live at the button location itself, and that button not even needing to be visible.

Are you adding a lot of additional gadgetry?

Craig

> On Jan 27, 2025, at 2:01 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Interesting, the dictionary didn’t mention mouseUp. But some kind of mouse up or down handler has to be what makes the call. 
> 
> It turns out that rolling your own blocking popup “menu” is not very straightforward. Here is what I came up with: 
> 
> on popupMenu pMenu, pItems, pLocation
>   -- anything less than 3 lines and the scrollbar does not display correctly
>   if the number of lines of pItems >3 and \
>         the last char pItems is cr then \
>         delete last char of pItems
> 
>   set the text of pMenu to pItems
>   set the height of pMenu to \
>         min(the formattedHeight of pMenu, 178) — for me 178 is 10 lines of formattedText YMMV
>   set the width of pMenu to the formattedWidth of pMenu
>   set the topLeft of pMenu to pLocation
>   show pMenu 
>   focus on pMenu
>   set the hilitedLine of pMenu to empty -- because focus will auto-select line 1
>   wait until the visible of pMenu is false with messages
> end popupMenu
> 
> 
> — in the script of a Scrolling List Field
> local lParentCard
> 
> on selectionChanged
>   put getParentCard(the long id of me) into lParentCard
>   put the hilitedLine of me into tLine
>   put line tLine of the text of me into tItem
>   set the currentLocation of lParentCard to tItem — or whatever you want to do with tItem
>   hide me
> end selectionChanged
> 
> on escapeKey
>   selectionChanged
> end escapeKey
> 
> on focusOut
>   selectionChanged
> end focusOut
> 
> FUNCTION getParentCard pObjectID
>   put offset("card id", pObjectID) into tStartChar
>   put char tStartChar to -1 of pObjectID into tCardID
>   return tCardID
> END getParentCard
> 
> Bob S
> 
>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 9:39 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Bob.
>> 
>> It works just fine in a mouseUp handler as well. I just did it. 
>> 
>> Craig
>> 
>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:31 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Understood. That is why I wrote, I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. As I posted later, this command can only be used in a mouseDown handler. I think I knew this many, many years ago, but I forgot. 
>>> 
>>> Bob S
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 9:28 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Bob .
>>>> 
>>>> “popup” is not a command that creates a button. It only works with an existing button, opening its contents at a location of your choice. That button can be hidden, but its menu will appear anyway.
>>>> 
>>>> Craig
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:17 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi all. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have the command: 
>>>>> popup pMenuButton at pLocation
>>>>> 
>>>>> pMenuButton contains:
>>>>> button “mnuLocations"
>>>>> 
>>>>> pLocation contains: 
>>>>> 55,303
>>>>> 
>>>>> I am getting the error: 
>>>>> stack "moduleCardBehavior": execution error at line 360 (subwindow: can't find stack or button), char 1
>>>>> 
>>>>> I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. What in the name of all <fill in the blank> is going on here??
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bob S
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Mon Jan 27 16:18:19 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2025 21:18:19 +0000
Subject: Popup Button bug??
In-Reply-To: <68662892-00A0-493A-97D2-27038664B20D@starfirelighting.com>
References: <89890A6A-0504-417D-A765-A29ECB9B1433@iotecdigital.com>
 <13A570DF-C22D-4207-AF6F-9E8B306FC26E@starfirelighting.com>
 <244221DA-4E41-4608-BC54-B863A9888D2E@iotecdigital.com>
 <743BAC20-6A22-43D2-B3BC-DF6B2C14DA3F@starfirelighting.com>
 <F5549BD0-FA11-40AD-A6A0-135272E27304@iotecdigital.com>
 <68662892-00A0-493A-97D2-27038664B20D@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <1DCE4EFF-BF95-4B95-804F-F889D85AA6E8@iotecdigital.com>

Not at all. I have a File Server Agent that uses socket communications. I first get a list of files from the user, then I query the server or a list of what I call Profiles which right now are just a name and a file path on the server. 

I want to present the client user with a list of the names of those profiles. If the user does not select a profile, either by clicking off the menu I pop up, or by hitting the escape key, then I notify the user that they must choose a profile. 

If they do choose a profile then I send the server an array with some key/values, and the file data is stored in a numbered array in the data key. Each key in the data keys is first encrypted, then tho whole of the array is arrayEncoded, then base 64Encoded before opening a socket and sending the data. 

I tried using the popup menu button but that will not work unless the popup button command is called from a mouseDown or mouseUp handler. I am making the call from a behavior script which is why I was getting the error. And besides, you can’t control the popup menu’s appearance, whereas with a field you can. Also I am anticipating having more values than can be entirely displayed by a popup menu without running out of screen real estate, so a scrolling field works much better. 

I’m curious how you would do that with native controls? 

Bob S


> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:27 PM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Bob.
> 
> What are you trying to accomplish that the native buttons do not do for you? The popUp command, to me, is simply a tool to invoke a display of resident menuItems that do not necessarily have to live at the button location itself, and that button not even needing to be visible.
> 
> Are you adding a lot of additional gadgetry?
> 
> Craig
> 
>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 2:01 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Interesting, the dictionary didn’t mention mouseUp. But some kind of mouse up or down handler has to be what makes the call. 
>> 
>> It turns out that rolling your own blocking popup “menu” is not very straightforward. Here is what I came up with: 
>> 
>> on popupMenu pMenu, pItems, pLocation
>>  -- anything less than 3 lines and the scrollbar does not display correctly
>>  if the number of lines of pItems >3 and \
>>        the last char pItems is cr then \
>>        delete last char of pItems
>> 
>>  set the text of pMenu to pItems
>>  set the height of pMenu to \
>>        min(the formattedHeight of pMenu, 178) — for me 178 is 10 lines of formattedText YMMV
>>  set the width of pMenu to the formattedWidth of pMenu
>>  set the topLeft of pMenu to pLocation
>>  show pMenu 
>>  focus on pMenu
>>  set the hilitedLine of pMenu to empty -- because focus will auto-select line 1
>>  wait until the visible of pMenu is false with messages
>> end popupMenu
>> 
>> 
>> — in the script of a Scrolling List Field
>> local lParentCard
>> 
>> on selectionChanged
>>  put getParentCard(the long id of me) into lParentCard
>>  put the hilitedLine of me into tLine
>>  put line tLine of the text of me into tItem
>>  set the currentLocation of lParentCard to tItem — or whatever you want to do with tItem
>>  hide me
>> end selectionChanged
>> 
>> on escapeKey
>>  selectionChanged
>> end escapeKey
>> 
>> on focusOut
>>  selectionChanged
>> end focusOut
>> 
>> FUNCTION getParentCard pObjectID
>>  put offset("card id", pObjectID) into tStartChar
>>  put char tStartChar to -1 of pObjectID into tCardID
>>  return tCardID
>> END getParentCard
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 9:39 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Bob.
>>> 
>>> It works just fine in a mouseUp handler as well. I just did it. 
>>> 
>>> Craig
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:31 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Understood. That is why I wrote, I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. As I posted later, this command can only be used in a mouseDown handler. I think I knew this many, many years ago, but I forgot. 
>>>> 
>>>> Bob S
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 9:28 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bob .
>>>>> 
>>>>> “popup” is not a command that creates a button. It only works with an existing button, opening its contents at a location of your choice. That button can be hidden, but its menu will appear anyway.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Craig
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:17 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi all. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I have the command: 
>>>>>> popup pMenuButton at pLocation
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> pMenuButton contains:
>>>>>> button “mnuLocations"
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> pLocation contains: 
>>>>>> 55,303
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I am getting the error: 
>>>>>> stack "moduleCardBehavior": execution error at line 360 (subwindow: can't find stack or button), char 1
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. What in the name of all <fill in the blank> is going on here??
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Bob S
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From craig at starfirelighting.com  Tue Jan 28 10:07:06 2025
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2025 10:07:06 -0500
Subject: Popup Button bug??
In-Reply-To: <1DCE4EFF-BF95-4B95-804F-F889D85AA6E8@iotecdigital.com>
References: <89890A6A-0504-417D-A765-A29ECB9B1433@iotecdigital.com>
 <13A570DF-C22D-4207-AF6F-9E8B306FC26E@starfirelighting.com>
 <244221DA-4E41-4608-BC54-B863A9888D2E@iotecdigital.com>
 <743BAC20-6A22-43D2-B3BC-DF6B2C14DA3F@starfirelighting.com>
 <F5549BD0-FA11-40AD-A6A0-135272E27304@iotecdigital.com>
 <68662892-00A0-493A-97D2-27038664B20D@starfirelighting.com>
 <1DCE4EFF-BF95-4B95-804F-F889D85AA6E8@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <28A27452-27BA-4618-9BC5-A6F71F332EC5@starfirelighting.com>

Did you try my stack? It does not use a button at all for the menuItem list, rather a field. Looks the same, much easier to manage.

Craig

> On Jan 27, 2025, at 4:18 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Not at all. I have a File Server Agent that uses socket communications. I first get a list of files from the user, then I query the server or a list of what I call Profiles which right now are just a name and a file path on the server. 
> 
> I want to present the client user with a list of the names of those profiles. If the user does not select a profile, either by clicking off the menu I pop up, or by hitting the escape key, then I notify the user that they must choose a profile. 
> 
> If they do choose a profile then I send the server an array with some key/values, and the file data is stored in a numbered array in the data key. Each key in the data keys is first encrypted, then tho whole of the array is arrayEncoded, then base 64Encoded before opening a socket and sending the data. 
> 
> I tried using the popup menu button but that will not work unless the popup button command is called from a mouseDown or mouseUp handler. I am making the call from a behavior script which is why I was getting the error. And besides, you can’t control the popup menu’s appearance, whereas with a field you can. Also I am anticipating having more values than can be entirely displayed by a popup menu without running out of screen real estate, so a scrolling field works much better. 
> 
> I’m curious how you would do that with native controls? 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:27 PM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Bob.
>> 
>> What are you trying to accomplish that the native buttons do not do for you? The popUp command, to me, is simply a tool to invoke a display of resident menuItems that do not necessarily have to live at the button location itself, and that button not even needing to be visible.
>> 
>> Are you adding a lot of additional gadgetry?
>> 
>> Craig
>> 
>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 2:01 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Interesting, the dictionary didn’t mention mouseUp. But some kind of mouse up or down handler has to be what makes the call. 
>>> 
>>> It turns out that rolling your own blocking popup “menu” is not very straightforward. Here is what I came up with: 
>>> 
>>> on popupMenu pMenu, pItems, pLocation
>>> -- anything less than 3 lines and the scrollbar does not display correctly
>>> if the number of lines of pItems >3 and \
>>>       the last char pItems is cr then \
>>>       delete last char of pItems
>>> 
>>> set the text of pMenu to pItems
>>> set the height of pMenu to \
>>>       min(the formattedHeight of pMenu, 178) — for me 178 is 10 lines of formattedText YMMV
>>> set the width of pMenu to the formattedWidth of pMenu
>>> set the topLeft of pMenu to pLocation
>>> show pMenu 
>>> focus on pMenu
>>> set the hilitedLine of pMenu to empty -- because focus will auto-select line 1
>>> wait until the visible of pMenu is false with messages
>>> end popupMenu
>>> 
>>> 
>>> — in the script of a Scrolling List Field
>>> local lParentCard
>>> 
>>> on selectionChanged
>>> put getParentCard(the long id of me) into lParentCard
>>> put the hilitedLine of me into tLine
>>> put line tLine of the text of me into tItem
>>> set the currentLocation of lParentCard to tItem — or whatever you want to do with tItem
>>> hide me
>>> end selectionChanged
>>> 
>>> on escapeKey
>>> selectionChanged
>>> end escapeKey
>>> 
>>> on focusOut
>>> selectionChanged
>>> end focusOut
>>> 
>>> FUNCTION getParentCard pObjectID
>>> put offset("card id", pObjectID) into tStartChar
>>> put char tStartChar to -1 of pObjectID into tCardID
>>> return tCardID
>>> END getParentCard
>>> 
>>> Bob S
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 9:39 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Bob.
>>>> 
>>>> It works just fine in a mouseUp handler as well. I just did it. 
>>>> 
>>>> Craig
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:31 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Understood. That is why I wrote, I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. As I posted later, this command can only be used in a mouseDown handler. I think I knew this many, many years ago, but I forgot. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bob S
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 9:28 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Bob .
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> “popup” is not a command that creates a button. It only works with an existing button, opening its contents at a location of your choice. That button can be hidden, but its menu will appear anyway.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Craig
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:17 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi all. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I have the command: 
>>>>>>> popup pMenuButton at pLocation
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> pMenuButton contains:
>>>>>>> button “mnuLocations"
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> pLocation contains: 
>>>>>>> 55,303
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I am getting the error: 
>>>>>>> stack "moduleCardBehavior": execution error at line 360 (subwindow: can't find stack or button), char 1
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. What in the name of all <fill in the blank> is going on here??
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Bob S
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Tue Jan 28 11:04:58 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2025 16:04:58 +0000
Subject: Popup Button bug??
In-Reply-To: <28A27452-27BA-4618-9BC5-A6F71F332EC5@starfirelighting.com>
References: <89890A6A-0504-417D-A765-A29ECB9B1433@iotecdigital.com>
 <13A570DF-C22D-4207-AF6F-9E8B306FC26E@starfirelighting.com>
 <244221DA-4E41-4608-BC54-B863A9888D2E@iotecdigital.com>
 <743BAC20-6A22-43D2-B3BC-DF6B2C14DA3F@starfirelighting.com>
 <F5549BD0-FA11-40AD-A6A0-135272E27304@iotecdigital.com>
 <68662892-00A0-493A-97D2-27038664B20D@starfirelighting.com>
 <1DCE4EFF-BF95-4B95-804F-F889D85AA6E8@iotecdigital.com>
 <28A27452-27BA-4618-9BC5-A6F71F332EC5@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <E540111F-EFF0-45DA-9F2D-F62B0D63B049@iotecdigital.com>

Is it modal?

Bob S


> On Jan 28, 2025, at 7:07 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Did you try my stack? It does not use a button at all for the menuItem list, rather a field. Looks the same, much easier to manage.
> 
> Craig
> 
>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 4:18 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Not at all. I have a File Server Agent that uses socket communications. I first get a list of files from the user, then I query the server or a list of what I call Profiles which right now are just a name and a file path on the server. 
>> 
>> I want to present the client user with a list of the names of those profiles. If the user does not select a profile, either by clicking off the menu I pop up, or by hitting the escape key, then I notify the user that they must choose a profile. 
>> 
>> If they do choose a profile then I send the server an array with some key/values, and the file data is stored in a numbered array in the data key. Each key in the data keys is first encrypted, then tho whole of the array is arrayEncoded, then base 64Encoded before opening a socket and sending the data. 
>> 
>> I tried using the popup menu button but that will not work unless the popup button command is called from a mouseDown or mouseUp handler. I am making the call from a behavior script which is why I was getting the error. And besides, you can’t control the popup menu’s appearance, whereas with a field you can. Also I am anticipating having more values than can be entirely displayed by a popup menu without running out of screen real estate, so a scrolling field works much better. 
>> 
>> I’m curious how you would do that with native controls? 
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:27 PM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Bob.
>>> 
>>> What are you trying to accomplish that the native buttons do not do for you? The popUp command, to me, is simply a tool to invoke a display of resident menuItems that do not necessarily have to live at the button location itself, and that button not even needing to be visible.
>>> 
>>> Are you adding a lot of additional gadgetry?
>>> 
>>> Craig
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 2:01 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Interesting, the dictionary didn’t mention mouseUp. But some kind of mouse up or down handler has to be what makes the call. 
>>>> 
>>>> It turns out that rolling your own blocking popup “menu” is not very straightforward. Here is what I came up with: 
>>>> 
>>>> on popupMenu pMenu, pItems, pLocation
>>>> -- anything less than 3 lines and the scrollbar does not display correctly
>>>> if the number of lines of pItems >3 and \
>>>>      the last char pItems is cr then \
>>>>      delete last char of pItems
>>>> 
>>>> set the text of pMenu to pItems
>>>> set the height of pMenu to \
>>>>      min(the formattedHeight of pMenu, 178) — for me 178 is 10 lines of formattedText YMMV
>>>> set the width of pMenu to the formattedWidth of pMenu
>>>> set the topLeft of pMenu to pLocation
>>>> show pMenu 
>>>> focus on pMenu
>>>> set the hilitedLine of pMenu to empty -- because focus will auto-select line 1
>>>> wait until the visible of pMenu is false with messages
>>>> end popupMenu
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> — in the script of a Scrolling List Field
>>>> local lParentCard
>>>> 
>>>> on selectionChanged
>>>> put getParentCard(the long id of me) into lParentCard
>>>> put the hilitedLine of me into tLine
>>>> put line tLine of the text of me into tItem
>>>> set the currentLocation of lParentCard to tItem — or whatever you want to do with tItem
>>>> hide me
>>>> end selectionChanged
>>>> 
>>>> on escapeKey
>>>> selectionChanged
>>>> end escapeKey
>>>> 
>>>> on focusOut
>>>> selectionChanged
>>>> end focusOut
>>>> 
>>>> FUNCTION getParentCard pObjectID
>>>> put offset("card id", pObjectID) into tStartChar
>>>> put char tStartChar to -1 of pObjectID into tCardID
>>>> return tCardID
>>>> END getParentCard
>>>> 
>>>> Bob S
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 9:39 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bob.
>>>>> 
>>>>> It works just fine in a mouseUp handler as well. I just did it. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Craig
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:31 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Understood. That is why I wrote, I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. As I posted later, this command can only be used in a mouseDown handler. I think I knew this many, many years ago, but I forgot. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Bob S
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 9:28 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Bob .
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> “popup” is not a command that creates a button. It only works with an existing button, opening its contents at a location of your choice. That button can be hidden, but its menu will appear anyway.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Craig
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:17 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hi all. 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I have the command: 
>>>>>>>> popup pMenuButton at pLocation
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> pMenuButton contains:
>>>>>>>> button “mnuLocations"
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> pLocation contains: 
>>>>>>>> 55,303
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I am getting the error: 
>>>>>>>> stack "moduleCardBehavior": execution error at line 360 (subwindow: can't find stack or button), char 1
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. What in the name of all <fill in the blank> is going on here??
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Bob S
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Tue Jan 28 11:06:19 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2025 16:06:19 +0000
Subject: Popup Button bug??
In-Reply-To: <28A27452-27BA-4618-9BC5-A6F71F332EC5@starfirelighting.com>
References: <89890A6A-0504-417D-A765-A29ECB9B1433@iotecdigital.com>
 <13A570DF-C22D-4207-AF6F-9E8B306FC26E@starfirelighting.com>
 <244221DA-4E41-4608-BC54-B863A9888D2E@iotecdigital.com>
 <743BAC20-6A22-43D2-B3BC-DF6B2C14DA3F@starfirelighting.com>
 <F5549BD0-FA11-40AD-A6A0-135272E27304@iotecdigital.com>
 <68662892-00A0-493A-97D2-27038664B20D@starfirelighting.com>
 <1DCE4EFF-BF95-4B95-804F-F889D85AA6E8@iotecdigital.com>
 <28A27452-27BA-4618-9BC5-A6F71F332EC5@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <7F904509-053F-46DB-98DA-AE69D46D85A4@iotecdigital.com>

I am also using a field. Half the magic occurrs outside the field script though. 

Bob S


> On Jan 28, 2025, at 7:07 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Did you try my stack? It does not use a button at all for the menuItem list, rather a field. Looks the same, much easier to manage.
> 
> Craig
> 
>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 4:18 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Not at all. I have a File Server Agent that uses socket communications. I first get a list of files from the user, then I query the server or a list of what I call Profiles which right now are just a name and a file path on the server. 
>> 
>> I want to present the client user with a list of the names of those profiles. If the user does not select a profile, either by clicking off the menu I pop up, or by hitting the escape key, then I notify the user that they must choose a profile. 
>> 
>> If they do choose a profile then I send the server an array with some key/values, and the file data is stored in a numbered array in the data key. Each key in the data keys is first encrypted, then tho whole of the array is arrayEncoded, then base 64Encoded before opening a socket and sending the data. 
>> 
>> I tried using the popup menu button but that will not work unless the popup button command is called from a mouseDown or mouseUp handler. I am making the call from a behavior script which is why I was getting the error. And besides, you can’t control the popup menu’s appearance, whereas with a field you can. Also I am anticipating having more values than can be entirely displayed by a popup menu without running out of screen real estate, so a scrolling field works much better. 
>> 
>> I’m curious how you would do that with native controls? 
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:27 PM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Bob.
>>> 
>>> What are you trying to accomplish that the native buttons do not do for you? The popUp command, to me, is simply a tool to invoke a display of resident menuItems that do not necessarily have to live at the button location itself, and that button not even needing to be visible.
>>> 
>>> Are you adding a lot of additional gadgetry?
>>> 
>>> Craig
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 2:01 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Interesting, the dictionary didn’t mention mouseUp. But some kind of mouse up or down handler has to be what makes the call. 
>>>> 
>>>> It turns out that rolling your own blocking popup “menu” is not very straightforward. Here is what I came up with: 
>>>> 
>>>> on popupMenu pMenu, pItems, pLocation
>>>> -- anything less than 3 lines and the scrollbar does not display correctly
>>>> if the number of lines of pItems >3 and \
>>>>      the last char pItems is cr then \
>>>>      delete last char of pItems
>>>> 
>>>> set the text of pMenu to pItems
>>>> set the height of pMenu to \
>>>>      min(the formattedHeight of pMenu, 178) — for me 178 is 10 lines of formattedText YMMV
>>>> set the width of pMenu to the formattedWidth of pMenu
>>>> set the topLeft of pMenu to pLocation
>>>> show pMenu 
>>>> focus on pMenu
>>>> set the hilitedLine of pMenu to empty -- because focus will auto-select line 1
>>>> wait until the visible of pMenu is false with messages
>>>> end popupMenu
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> — in the script of a Scrolling List Field
>>>> local lParentCard
>>>> 
>>>> on selectionChanged
>>>> put getParentCard(the long id of me) into lParentCard
>>>> put the hilitedLine of me into tLine
>>>> put line tLine of the text of me into tItem
>>>> set the currentLocation of lParentCard to tItem — or whatever you want to do with tItem
>>>> hide me
>>>> end selectionChanged
>>>> 
>>>> on escapeKey
>>>> selectionChanged
>>>> end escapeKey
>>>> 
>>>> on focusOut
>>>> selectionChanged
>>>> end focusOut
>>>> 
>>>> FUNCTION getParentCard pObjectID
>>>> put offset("card id", pObjectID) into tStartChar
>>>> put char tStartChar to -1 of pObjectID into tCardID
>>>> return tCardID
>>>> END getParentCard
>>>> 
>>>> Bob S
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 9:39 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bob.
>>>>> 
>>>>> It works just fine in a mouseUp handler as well. I just did it. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Craig
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:31 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Understood. That is why I wrote, I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. As I posted later, this command can only be used in a mouseDown handler. I think I knew this many, many years ago, but I forgot. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Bob S
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 9:28 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Bob .
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> “popup” is not a command that creates a button. It only works with an existing button, opening its contents at a location of your choice. That button can be hidden, but its menu will appear anyway.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Craig
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:17 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hi all. 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I have the command: 
>>>>>>>> popup pMenuButton at pLocation
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> pMenuButton contains:
>>>>>>>> button “mnuLocations"
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> pLocation contains: 
>>>>>>>> 55,303
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I am getting the error: 
>>>>>>>> stack "moduleCardBehavior": execution error at line 360 (subwindow: can't find stack or button), char 1
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. What in the name of all <fill in the blank> is going on here??
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Bob S
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Tue Jan 28 12:56:15 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2025 17:56:15 +0000
Subject: Popup Button bug??
In-Reply-To: <7F904509-053F-46DB-98DA-AE69D46D85A4@iotecdigital.com>
References: <89890A6A-0504-417D-A765-A29ECB9B1433@iotecdigital.com>
 <13A570DF-C22D-4207-AF6F-9E8B306FC26E@starfirelighting.com>
 <244221DA-4E41-4608-BC54-B863A9888D2E@iotecdigital.com>
 <743BAC20-6A22-43D2-B3BC-DF6B2C14DA3F@starfirelighting.com>
 <F5549BD0-FA11-40AD-A6A0-135272E27304@iotecdigital.com>
 <68662892-00A0-493A-97D2-27038664B20D@starfirelighting.com>
 <1DCE4EFF-BF95-4B95-804F-F889D85AA6E8@iotecdigital.com>
 <28A27452-27BA-4618-9BC5-A6F71F332EC5@starfirelighting.com>
 <7F904509-053F-46DB-98DA-AE69D46D85A4@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <90EF44E3-1AA1-43A2-89EF-9766171B1BAC@iotecdigital.com>

Okay I see what you did. Actually, what I wanted was to have an empty choice to start with, because users are prone to do the minimal necessary, and will just click the save button without thinking about where the file will be stored. By creating the menu in such a way that either a valid choice is made or else any other action dismisses the "popup menu” I can check that the user selected a valid folder profile. 

Bob S


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Jan 28 17:07:20 2025
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2025 22:07:20 +0000
Subject: Popup Button bug??
Message-ID: <395bcd5da616090cf91c6f71df2bff112ba7fc01@fourthworld.com>

Bob Sneidar wrote:
> I want to present the client user with a list of the names of those profiles.
> If the user does not select a profile, either by clicking off the menu I pop
> up, or by hitting the escape key, then I notify the user that they must
> choose a profile. 

Have you considered a list in modal dialog? 

This would allow a more spacious display for the list and the prompt, prohibit proceeding without the necessary selection, make that necessity clear in its prompt and initially-disabled confirmation button, and offer the option of being entirely keyboard-navigable.


But I'm also curious:

What information does the user need to consider to make that choice, and what would their decision tree look like?

And are some choices better than others?  Are there any that would be a "wrong" choice?  Any that would be a "best" choice?  What are the implications to the system when a suboptimal choice is made?

--
Richard Gaskin
FourthWorld.com


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Tue Jan 28 18:39:26 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2025 23:39:26 +0000
Subject: Popup Button bug??
In-Reply-To: <395bcd5da616090cf91c6f71df2bff112ba7fc01@fourthworld.com>
References: <395bcd5da616090cf91c6f71df2bff112ba7fc01@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <B987729C-9A88-4FBA-A993-EAC9E97624F2@iotecdigital.com>

> On Jan 28, 2025, at 2:07 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Bob Sneidar wrote:
>> I want to present the client user with a list of the names of those profiles.
>> If the user does not select a profile, either by clicking off the menu I pop
>> up, or by hitting the escape key, then I notify the user that they must
>> choose a profile. 
> 
> Have you considered a list in modal dialog? 
I have issues troubleshooting modal stacks so I avoid them if I can. 
> 
> This would allow a more spacious display for the list and the prompt, prohibit proceeding without the necessary selection, make that necessity clear in its prompt and initially-disabled confirmation button, and offer the option of being entirely keyboard-navigable.
Good points, and the keyboard navigation part is tempting. 
> 
> 
> But I'm also curious:
> 
> What information does the user need to consider to make that choice, and what would their decision tree look like?
Service technicians would store two types of documents: Data files (text files, address book backups, clone data etc.) and Forms (PDFs of service forms presented to the customer.) 

But this is the foundation to a more sophisticated document management system, where these storage profiles will be linked to document workflows. Things like Purchase Orders. AP and AR invoices, Sales Orders etc. The solution we currently use, Docuware that was supposed to supplant DocRecord is completely cloud based, and incredibly expensive, especially when we add the storage and extra user licenses we will need for all of our salespersons and accounting and executive staff. 

My ambitious goal is to create a system we control, and then if the company adopts it I can justify the licensing for the new LC product LC Create. But if I cannot demonstrate a viable product, I do not think I can sell the powers that be on the new licensing model. 
> 
> And are some choices better than others?  Are there any that would be a "wrong" choice?  Any that would be a "best" choice?  What are the implications to the system when a suboptimal choice is made?
The only suboptimal choice would be no choice. There has to be some indication of where the file needs to be stored on the server end. I don’t want to define a default because if you leave it up to end users to change the location profile from the default, the untrained and the unconcerned alike are just going to leave defaults as they are. There will be a point at which the user can cancel the file transfer before the payload gets sent. 

That being said, I will have to develop a mode to reassign a document in case of an error, and especially when the workflows begin to take shape. 
> 
> --
> Richard Gaskin
> FourthWorld.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From tom at makeshyft.com  Wed Jan  1 23:35:18 2025
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2025 23:35:18 -0500
Subject: Help with Linux app built with LC on Mac
In-Reply-To: <BB79235D-9D97-4071-A619-9757F6C722D4@livecode.org>
References: <BB79235D-9D97-4071-A619-9757F6C722D4@livecode.org>
Message-ID: <CAPzQJLKnvHPvcnisB=0r7rTbgK0YWz19UcF_2=2yq9DY72Th4A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Paul, does your app have a browser in it ? if so, you need to build the
linux build on a linux box.
Perhaps this is true for some of the other necessary inclusions.
Thats the only experience I've had with working linux builds vs not
working.
Let us know if you figure it out.



On Tue, Dec 31, 2024 at 6:32 PM Paul - Livecode via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>
> Hi everyone,
>
> I’ve been a long-time list member, but never really felt the need to ask
> for advice until now. I’ve just built a small app using LC 9.6.13 and built
> standalones for Mac, Windows, and Linux, which I may look at distributing
> once all testing is done.
>
> I’m using a MacBook Pro M2 for development, and I have Parallels for
> testing. The Mac and Windows versions appear to be working fine, but when I
> try to launch the Linux standalone in Ubuntu via Parallels, it won’t even
> launch. When I double-click the app icon, there is no response. The same is
> true if I right-click and choose “Run”. I checked the app and folder
> permissions, and they appear to be OK. The app is on the Linux partition,
> and I have tried both the standard and x64 versions.
>
> I’ve never used Linux before, apart from on RPi, so I’m not sure if there
> is something that I am missing or doing wrong. Any ideas or advice would be
> gratefully received.
>
> Thank you, and wishing you all a wonderful New Year.
>
> Paul
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From paul at livecode.org  Thu Jan  2 12:17:46 2025
From: paul at livecode.org (Paul - Livecode)
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2025 09:17:46 -0800
Subject: Help with Linux app built with LC on Mac
In-Reply-To: <CAPzQJLKnvHPvcnisB=0r7rTbgK0YWz19UcF_2=2yq9DY72Th4A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BB79235D-9D97-4071-A619-9757F6C722D4@livecode.org>
 <CAPzQJLKnvHPvcnisB=0r7rTbgK0YWz19UcF_2=2yq9DY72Th4A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ADE1CC07-1DF8-4E30-97AC-2FB84E2BE0A3@livecode.org>

Hi Tom, thanks for the suggestion. No, there is no browser in the app, it is just a simple app for manipulating and editing specific CSV files. It does use quite a few modern widget controls though, mainly a Polygrid and a few Powerbuttons. Although I also tested a very simple hello world app, and I couldn’t get that to run in Linux under Parallels on Mac M2, both my app and the simple test run fine in Linux under Parallels on an Intel Mac, so there is definitely something odd going on. Not sure if it’s just my setup or if it’s a LC/Parallels/M2 thing. 

I’m hoping to send it off to LC today, but I’m going to be travelling for a few days after tomorrow, so I may have to follow up with this later next week.

Paul


> On Jan 1, 2025, at 20:35, Tom Glod via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Paul, does your app have a browser in it ? if so, you need to build the
> linux build on a linux box.
> Perhaps this is true for some of the other necessary inclusions.
> Thats the only experience I've had with working linux builds vs not
> working.
> Let us know if you figure it out.
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Dec 31, 2024 at 6:32 PM Paul - Livecode via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Hi everyone,
>> 
>> I’ve been a long-time list member, but never really felt the need to ask
>> for advice until now. I’ve just built a small app using LC 9.6.13 and built
>> standalones for Mac, Windows, and Linux, which I may look at distributing
>> once all testing is done.
>> 
>> I’m using a MacBook Pro M2 for development, and I have Parallels for
>> testing. The Mac and Windows versions appear to be working fine, but when I
>> try to launch the Linux standalone in Ubuntu via Parallels, it won’t even
>> launch. When I double-click the app icon, there is no response. The same is
>> true if I right-click and choose “Run”. I checked the app and folder
>> permissions, and they appear to be OK. The app is on the Linux partition,
>> and I have tried both the standard and x64 versions.
>> 
>> I’ve never used Linux before, apart from on RPi, so I’m not sure if there
>> is something that I am missing or doing wrong. Any ideas or advice would be
>> gratefully received.
>> 
>> Thank you, and wishing you all a wonderful New Year.
>> 
>> Paul
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From mblivecode at harbourhosting.co.uk  Sun Jan  5 07:14:49 2025
From: mblivecode at harbourhosting.co.uk (Martin Baxter)
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2025 12:14:49 +0000
Subject: Help with Linux app built with LC on Mac
In-Reply-To: <ADE1CC07-1DF8-4E30-97AC-2FB84E2BE0A3@livecode.org>
References: <BB79235D-9D97-4071-A619-9757F6C722D4@livecode.org>
 <CAPzQJLKnvHPvcnisB=0r7rTbgK0YWz19UcF_2=2yq9DY72Th4A@mail.gmail.com>
 <ADE1CC07-1DF8-4E30-97AC-2FB84E2BE0A3@livecode.org>
Message-ID: <e33909ed-342f-4b5a-bd24-26aafb604f6b@harbourhosting.co.uk>

Hi Paul

1 Does the application have executable permission on linux?

2 If it does, the issue might perhaps be missing dependencies
check on the linux command line:

ldd <path to application>

that will return a list of libraries on which the app depends and the 
path to them, you would need to install any that are not present

Martin

On 02/01/2025 17:17, Paul - Livecode via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi Tom, thanks for the suggestion. No, there is no browser in the app, it is just a simple app for manipulating and editing specific CSV files. It does use quite a few modern widget controls though, mainly a Polygrid and a few Powerbuttons. Although I also tested a very simple hello world app, and I couldnt get that to run in Linux under Parallels on Mac M2, both my app and the simple test run fine in Linux under Parallels on an Intel Mac, so there is definitely something odd going on. Not sure if its just my setup or if its a LC/Parallels/M2 thing.
> 
> Im hoping to send it off to LC today, but Im going to be travelling for a few days after tomorrow, so I may have to follow up with this later next week.
> 
> Paul
> 
> 
>> On Jan 1, 2025, at 20:35, Tom Glod via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Paul, does your app have a browser in it ? if so, you need to build the
>> linux build on a linux box.
>> Perhaps this is true for some of the other necessary inclusions.
>> Thats the only experience I've had with working linux builds vs not
>> working.
>> Let us know if you figure it out.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 31, 2024 at 6:32PM Paul - Livecode via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hi everyone,
>>>
>>> Ive been a long-time list member, but never really felt the need to ask
>>> for advice until now. Ive just built a small app using LC 9.6.13 and built
>>> standalones for Mac, Windows, and Linux, which I may look at distributing
>>> once all testing is done.
>>>
>>> Im using a MacBook Pro M2 for development, and I have Parallels for
>>> testing. The Mac and Windows versions appear to be working fine, but when I
>>> try to launch the Linux standalone in Ubuntu via Parallels, it wont even
>>> launch. When I double-click the app icon, there is no response. The same is
>>> true if I right-click and choose Run. I checked the app and folder
>>> permissions, and they appear to be OK. The app is on the Linux partition,
>>> and I have tried both the standard and x64 versions.
>>>
>>> Ive never used Linux before, apart from on RPi, so Im not sure if there
>>> is something that I am missing or doing wrong. Any ideas or advice would be
>>> gratefully received.
>>>
>>> Thank you, and wishing you all a wonderful New Year.
>>>
>>> Paul
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Jan 10 13:02:30 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2025 18:02:30 +0000
Subject: MacOS compatibility
Message-ID: <C9E70478-EA10-4609-8DC8-BE2808A514A6@iotecdigital.com>

Hi all. 

I just want to clarify, the Livecode web site indicates that LC is compatible with MacOS 14.x Sonoma, but it does not list 15.x Sequoia. Before I update my OS (which I do NOT allow it to do automatically) I want to be sure about the compatibility. 

Bob S



From ludovic.thebault at laposte.net  Fri Jan 10 13:05:13 2025
From: ludovic.thebault at laposte.net (Ludovic THEBAULT)
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2025 19:05:13 +0100
Subject: MacOS compatibility
In-Reply-To: <C9E70478-EA10-4609-8DC8-BE2808A514A6@iotecdigital.com>
References: <C9E70478-EA10-4609-8DC8-BE2808A514A6@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <D358B769-4A94-4E58-86AF-532F6AF0DAE6@laposte.net>



> Le 10 janv. 2025 à 19:02, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> a écrit :
> 
> Hi all. 
> 
> I just want to clarify, the Livecode web site indicates that LC is compatible with MacOS 14.x Sonoma, but it does not list 15.x Sequoia. Before I update my OS (which I do NOT allow it to do automatically) I want to be sure about the compatibility. 
> 
> Bob S


Hello,

I use Livecode Create DP5 on sequoia without problems.

Ludovic


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Jan 10 14:20:43 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2025 19:20:43 +0000
Subject: MacOS compatibility
In-Reply-To: <D358B769-4A94-4E58-86AF-532F6AF0DAE6@laposte.net>
References: <C9E70478-EA10-4609-8DC8-BE2808A514A6@iotecdigital.com>
 <D358B769-4A94-4E58-86AF-532F6AF0DAE6@laposte.net>
Message-ID: <91C28A17-50BE-47AB-98FC-6A5934A1B0D6@iotecdigital.com>

I’m not using create yet. I’m on 10.0.1 (rc3)

Bob S


> On Jan 10, 2025, at 10:05 AM, Ludovic THEBAULT via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> Le 10 janv. 2025 à 19:02, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> a écrit :
>> 
>> Hi all. 
>> 
>> I just want to clarify, the Livecode web site indicates that LC is compatible with MacOS 14.x Sonoma, but it does not list 15.x Sequoia. Before I update my OS (which I do NOT allow it to do automatically) I want to be sure about the compatibility. 
>> 
>> Bob S
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I use Livecode Create DP5 on sequoia without problems.
> 
> Ludovic
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From martyknappster at gmail.com  Fri Jan 10 14:26:03 2025
From: martyknappster at gmail.com (Marty Knapp)
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2025 11:26:03 -0800
Subject: MacOS compatibility
In-Reply-To: <91C28A17-50BE-47AB-98FC-6A5934A1B0D6@iotecdigital.com>
References: <C9E70478-EA10-4609-8DC8-BE2808A514A6@iotecdigital.com>
 <D358B769-4A94-4E58-86AF-532F6AF0DAE6@laposte.net>
 <91C28A17-50BE-47AB-98FC-6A5934A1B0D6@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <007A0982-766A-4EEE-A840-6401F5D32B02@gmail.com>

Bob, I’m using LC 9.6.13 on Sequoia 15.2 with no issues.

---
Marty Knapp
> On Jan 10, 2025, at 11:20 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I’m not using create yet. I’m on 10.0.1 (rc3)
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Jan 10, 2025, at 10:05 AM, Ludovic THEBAULT via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> Le 10 janv. 2025 à 19:02, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> a écrit :
>>> 
>>> Hi all. 
>>> 
>>> I just want to clarify, the Livecode web site indicates that LC is compatible with MacOS 14.x Sonoma, but it does not list 15.x Sequoia. Before I update my OS (which I do NOT allow it to do automatically) I want to be sure about the compatibility. 
>>> 
>>> Bob S



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Jan 10 14:41:24 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2025 19:41:24 +0000
Subject: MacOS compatibility
In-Reply-To: <007A0982-766A-4EEE-A840-6401F5D32B02@gmail.com>
References: <C9E70478-EA10-4609-8DC8-BE2808A514A6@iotecdigital.com>
 <D358B769-4A94-4E58-86AF-532F6AF0DAE6@laposte.net>
 <91C28A17-50BE-47AB-98FC-6A5934A1B0D6@iotecdigital.com>
 <007A0982-766A-4EEE-A840-6401F5D32B02@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <76140479-804C-4F37-A87F-7BEB926354F2@iotecdigital.com>

Thanks Marty good to know. 

Bob S


> On Jan 10, 2025, at 11:26 AM, Marty Knapp via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Bob, I’m using LC 9.6.13 on Sequoia 15.2 with no issues.
> 
> ---
> Marty Knapp
>> On Jan 10, 2025, at 11:20 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I’m not using create yet. I’m on 10.0.1 (rc3)
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 10, 2025, at 10:05 AM, Ludovic THEBAULT via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Le 10 janv. 2025 à 19:02, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> a écrit :
>>>> 
>>>> Hi all. 
>>>> 
>>>> I just want to clarify, the Livecode web site indicates that LC is compatible with MacOS 14.x Sonoma, but it does not list 15.x Sequoia. Before I update my OS (which I do NOT allow it to do automatically) I want to be sure about the compatibility. 
>>>> 
>>>> Bob S
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From harrison at all-auctions.com  Fri Jan 10 14:50:15 2025
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com)
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2025 14:50:15 -0500
Subject: MacOS compatibility
In-Reply-To: <C9E70478-EA10-4609-8DC8-BE2808A514A6@iotecdigital.com>
References: <C9E70478-EA10-4609-8DC8-BE2808A514A6@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <8C7B5CDD-AEFC-48C5-AADC-F7C24DC39DD0@all-auctions.com>

Hi Bob,

I was just forced into upgrading one of my computers to Sequoia, and it isn’t pretty. I have been
running into issues with Apple’s New Password and the Keychain Access scheme.

I recommend staying one operating system behind if possible. That gives everyone a year to
iron out most of the bugs.  I would stick with Sonoma if I were you at least until Apple announces
the name of the next operating system.

Just my 2 cents.  :-)

Rick

> On Jan 10, 2025, at 1:02 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi all. 
> 
> I just want to clarify, the Livecode web site indicates that LC is compatible with MacOS 14.x Sonoma, but it does not list 15.x Sequoia. Before I update my OS (which I do NOT allow it to do automatically) I want to be sure about the compatibility. 
> 
> Bob S


From paul at researchware.com  Fri Jan 10 14:55:10 2025
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2025 14:55:10 -0500
Subject: MacOS compatibility
In-Reply-To: <76140479-804C-4F37-A87F-7BEB926354F2@iotecdigital.com>
References: <C9E70478-EA10-4609-8DC8-BE2808A514A6@iotecdigital.com>
 <D358B769-4A94-4E58-86AF-532F6AF0DAE6@laposte.net>
 <91C28A17-50BE-47AB-98FC-6A5934A1B0D6@iotecdigital.com>
 <007A0982-766A-4EEE-A840-6401F5D32B02@gmail.com>
 <76140479-804C-4F37-A87F-7BEB926354F2@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <a464b302-b33c-4cd2-a69a-772525ef556c@researchware.com>

Sequoia compatibility is a little more complicated

For example, if you build you app for Intel, Rosetta is not preinstalled 
on Sequoia, and when someone first runs your Intel macOS app, they will 
be prompted to download Rosetta. if they decline - or as happened to us 
- the download was interrupted, it is a real pain to get Rosetta 
installed after that.

If you build you macOS app for Apple Silicon, be aware that not ALL 
libraries, externals, widgets, etc, that are available for LC 9.6.13 or 
10.0.1 are available for Apple Silicon. For example, last I checked the 
XPDF External (vs the PDF Widget) is not available for Apple Silicon. 
There may more things things outside of the core engine that are not 
available for Apple Silicon.

If you use any of these that are not available for Apple Silicon, then 
you will need to make it an Intel macOS app and deal with Rosetta.

I have no idea if Livecode has a list somewhere of what is and is not 
available for an Apple Silicon build of all the bits available in a 
9.6.13 business license. (or any of the different licenses).


On 1/10/2025 2:41 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
> Thanks Marty good to know.
>
> Bob S
>
>
>> On Jan 10, 2025, at 11:26 AM, Marty Knapp via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> Bob, Im using LC 9.6.13 on Sequoia 15.2 with no issues.
>>
>> ---
>> Marty Knapp
>>> On Jan 10, 2025, at 11:20AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Im not using create yet. Im on 10.0.1 (rc3)
>>>
>>> Bob S
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Jan 10, 2025, at 10:05 AM, Ludovic THEBAULT via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Le 10 janv. 2025  19:02, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> a crit :
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi all.
>>>>>
>>>>> I just want to clarify, the Livecode web site indicates that LC is compatible with MacOS 14.x Sonoma, but it does not list 15.x Sequoia. Before I update my OS (which I do NOT allow it to do automatically) I want to be sure about the compatibility.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bob S
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From Bernd.Niggemann at uni-wh.de  Sat Jan 11 07:08:19 2025
From: Bernd.Niggemann at uni-wh.de (Niggemann, Bernd)
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2025 12:08:19 +0000
Subject: [Ann] An accordion widget
Message-ID: <530DE464-546A-4714-85F6-1F580F193A58@uni-wh.de>

Hello all,

I uploaded a slightly updated version of "Accordion" to the Forum.

Code cleanup  and subtle change to appearence (even more "material design")

<https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=39452&p=232973#p232973>
Accordion for LC<https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=39452&p=232973#p232973>
forums.livecode.com<https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=39452&p=232973#p232973>
        [X] <https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=39452&p=232973#p232973>



Kind regards
Bernd

From paul at livecode.org  Sat Jan 11 12:14:15 2025
From: paul at livecode.org (Paul - Livecode)
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2025 12:14:15 -0500
Subject: Help with Linux app built with LC on Mac
In-Reply-To: <e33909ed-342f-4b5a-bd24-26aafb604f6b@harbourhosting.co.uk>
References: <BB79235D-9D97-4071-A619-9757F6C722D4@livecode.org>
 <CAPzQJLKnvHPvcnisB=0r7rTbgK0YWz19UcF_2=2yq9DY72Th4A@mail.gmail.com>
 <ADE1CC07-1DF8-4E30-97AC-2FB84E2BE0A3@livecode.org>
 <e33909ed-342f-4b5a-bd24-26aafb604f6b@harbourhosting.co.uk>
Message-ID: <06FF0245-8D19-4EF1-9021-3A2A2DBC2170@livecode.org>

Hi Martin,

Thank you for your reply, apologies for the delayed response, we have been travelling/sightseeing for a few days so I have not had much time for the computer, a little rain has slowed activities today! :-)

I tried the ldd command, but it just returned ’not a dynamic executable’, I assumed that means Linux does not recognize the file as an app, so I looked up what that meant online and found a little more info, then tried the ‘file’ command (as suggested from the search results) and it returned;

parallels at ubuntu-linux-22-04-02-desktop:~/Documents/Linux x64$ file HelloWorld
HelloWorld: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically lin
ked, interpreter /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.50.2, for GNU/Linux 2.6.32, BuildID[sha1
]=46300372835d048c44a256611604d7f6b179aba5, not stripped

So it seems Ubuntu is recognizing the app, but just not launching it!

Tried the same in Debian:

parallels at debian-gnu-linux-12:~$ ldd '/home/parallels/Documents/Linux Builds/Linux X64/Hello World'
not a dynamic executable
parallels at debian-gnu-linux-12:~$ file '/home/parallels/Documents/Linux Builds/Linux x64/Hello World'
/home/parallels/Documents/Linux Builds/Linux x64/Hello World: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version
1 (SYSV), dynamically linked, interpreter /1ib64/1d-linux-x86-64.50.2, for GNU/Linux 2.6.32, BuildID[sha1]=46300372835d048c44a256611604d7f6b179aba5, not stripped
parallels at debian-gnu-linux-12:~$

Same result.

If I try to launch through Terminal;
parallels at debian-gnu-linux-12:~$ '/home/parallels/Documents/Linux Builds/Linux X64/Hello World'
bash: /home/parallels/Documents/Linux Builds/Linux x64/Hello World: cannot execute binary file: Exec for
mat error

A little more digging and it seems LC  is only building an x86 executable and Parallels installs Linux on ARM64, so they are just not compatible...

Quote:
Ubuntu Exec Format Error
The “Exec format error” in Ubuntu typically indicates that the system cannot recognize the file as a shell script or executable. This can happen due to several reasons, such as a missing shebang (#!) at the start of a script, incorrect file permissions, or running an executable on the wrong architecture. For instance, trying to run an x86 executable on an ARM CPU can cause this error. Adding a shebang at the beginning of your script, ensuring the correct architecture matches, and verifying file permissions can help resolve the issue.

Thank you everyone for your help, I’ve learned a little more about Linux now. I’ll send this back to LC for their input.

Paul

> On Jan 5, 2025, at 07:14, Martin Baxter via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Paul
> 
> 1 Does the application have executable permission on linux?
> 
> 2 If it does, the issue might perhaps be missing dependencies
> check on the linux command line:
> 
> ldd <path to application>
> 
> that will return a list of libraries on which the app depends and the path to them, you would need to install any that are not present
> 
> Martin
> 
> On 02/01/2025 17:17, Paul - Livecode via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hi Tom, thanks for the suggestion. No, there is no browser in the app, it is just a simple app for manipulating and editing specific CSV files. It does use quite a few modern widget controls though, mainly a Polygrid and a few Powerbuttons. Although I also tested a very simple hello world app, and I couldn’t get that to run in Linux under Parallels on Mac M2, both my app and the simple test run fine in Linux under Parallels on an Intel Mac, so there is definitely something odd going on. Not sure if it’s just my setup or if it’s a LC/Parallels/M2 thing.
>> I’m hoping to send it off to LC today, but I’m going to be travelling for a few days after tomorrow, so I may have to follow up with this later next week.
>> Paul
>>> On Jan 1, 2025, at 20:35, Tom Glod via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Paul, does your app have a browser in it ? if so, you need to build the
>>> linux build on a linux box.
>>> Perhaps this is true for some of the other necessary inclusions.
>>> Thats the only experience I've had with working linux builds vs not
>>> working.
>>> Let us know if you figure it out.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Dec 31, 2024 at 6:32 PM Paul - Livecode via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>> 
>>>> I’ve been a long-time list member, but never really felt the need to ask
>>>> for advice until now. I’ve just built a small app using LC 9.6.13 and built
>>>> standalones for Mac, Windows, and Linux, which I may look at distributing
>>>> once all testing is done.
>>>> 
>>>> I’m using a MacBook Pro M2 for development, and I have Parallels for
>>>> testing. The Mac and Windows versions appear to be working fine, but when I
>>>> try to launch the Linux standalone in Ubuntu via Parallels, it won’t even
>>>> launch. When I double-click the app icon, there is no response. The same is
>>>> true if I right-click and choose “Run”. I checked the app and folder
>>>> permissions, and they appear to be OK. The app is on the Linux partition,
>>>> and I have tried both the standard and x64 versions.
>>>> 
>>>> I’ve never used Linux before, apart from on RPi, so I’m not sure if there
>>>> is something that I am missing or doing wrong. Any ideas or advice would be
>>>> gratefully received.
>>>> 
>>>> Thank you, and wishing you all a wonderful New Year.
>>>> 
>>>> Paul
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Tue Jan 14 11:29:04 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2025 16:29:04 +0000
Subject: The Files Function borked? 
Message-ID: <61622D76-541B-41C0-A6B6-18A6A6E15F58@iotecdigital.com>

Hi all. 

In the message box I put: 

put the files of "/Users/bobsneidar/Downloads/“

It returns a short list: 

Forms.zip
temp.db
Forms Generator 8.livecode
Time Zones
File Transfer Error Log.txt
iCalendar Sample with Attachment.ics
.DS_Store
Forms Generator 8 Crash Log.txt
Data Import.livecode
iCalendar Sample.ics
Vendors.livecode
snapshot.png
Old Copier Settings.txt
Paypal Encryption Technique.txt
DictionarySplitter_0_4.livecode
Software.livecode
Splash.livecode
Time Calculator.livecode
test.txt
iCalendar Sample with Attachment.ics.zip
20231213-Check Request.pdf
Refactor ProcessData.txt
tempdatabase.db
Time Zones.xlsx

That is only a fraction of the files in that folder. Whaaa???

Bob S

From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Jan 14 11:39:31 2025
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2025 10:39:31 -0600
Subject: The Files Function borked?
In-Reply-To: <61622D76-541B-41C0-A6B6-18A6A6E15F58@iotecdigital.com>
References: <61622D76-541B-41C0-A6B6-18A6A6E15F58@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <B17D61F0-3308-4B72-814C-0ABFEB2FD16F@sonsothunder.com>

Yeah I'm getting the same thing; if you use the "old" way, it works properly:

put the directory into tOldDir
set the directory to "/Users/bobsneidar/Downloads/"
put the files
set the directory to tOldDir



Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Website: https://www.sonsothunder.com



> On Jan 14, 2025, at 10:29 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi all. 
> 
> In the message box I put: 
> 
> put the files of "/Users/bobsneidar/Downloads/“
> 
> It returns a short list: 
> 
> Forms.zip
> temp.db
> Forms Generator 8.livecode
> Time Zones
> File Transfer Error Log.txt
> iCalendar Sample with Attachment.ics
> .DS_Store
> Forms Generator 8 Crash Log.txt
> Data Import.livecode
> iCalendar Sample.ics
> Vendors.livecode
> snapshot.png
> Old Copier Settings.txt
> Paypal Encryption Technique.txt
> DictionarySplitter_0_4.livecode
> Software.livecode
> Splash.livecode
> Time Calculator.livecode
> test.txt
> iCalendar Sample with Attachment.ics.zip
> 20231213-Check Request.pdf
> Refactor ProcessData.txt
> tempdatabase.db
> Time Zones.xlsx
> 
> That is only a fraction of the files in that folder. Whaaa???
> 
> Bob S
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Tue Jan 14 11:56:02 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2025 16:56:02 +0000
Subject: The Files Function borked?
In-Reply-To: <DA04979F-A61B-46FD-A90F-30E30BF9BD25@iotecdigital.com>
References: <61622D76-541B-41C0-A6B6-18A6A6E15F58@iotecdigital.com>
 <B17D61F0-3308-4B72-814C-0ABFEB2FD16F@sonsothunder.com>
 <DA04979F-A61B-46FD-A90F-30E30BF9BD25@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <461B81FC-317F-410B-A5D1-78F65E23F351@iotecdigital.com>

Interestingly, the function form works as well.

Bob S


On Jan 14, 2025, at 8:48 AM, Bob Sneidar <bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com> wrote:

Thanks for checking. That is a pretty big bug. I will submit a bug report shortly.

Bob S


On Jan 14, 2025, at 8:39 AM, Ken Ray <kray at sonsothunder.com> wrote:

You don't often get email from kray at sonsothunder.com. Learn why this is important<https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification>
Yeah I'm getting the same thing; if you use the "old" way, it works properly:

put the directory into tOldDir
set the directory to "/Users/bobsneidar/Downloads/"
put the files
set the directory to tOldDir



Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Website: https://www.sonsothunder.com



On Jan 14, 2025, at 10:29 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

Hi all.

In the message box I put:

put the files of "/Users/bobsneidar/Downloads/“

It returns a short list:

Forms.zip
temp.db
Forms Generator 8.livecode
Time Zones
File Transfer Error Log.txt
iCalendar Sample with Attachment.ics
.DS_Store
Forms Generator 8 Crash Log.txt
Data Import.livecode
iCalendar Sample.ics
Vendors.livecode
snapshot.png
Old Copier Settings.txt
Paypal Encryption Technique.txt
DictionarySplitter_0_4.livecode
Software.livecode
Splash.livecode
Time Calculator.livecode
test.txt
iCalendar Sample with Attachment.ics.zip
20231213-Check Request.pdf
Refactor ProcessData.txt
tempdatabase.db
Time Zones.xlsx

That is only a fraction of the files in that folder. Whaaa???

Bob S
_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Tue Jan 14 13:16:27 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2025 18:16:27 +0000
Subject: The Files Function borked?
In-Reply-To: <461B81FC-317F-410B-A5D1-78F65E23F351@iotecdigital.com>
References: <61622D76-541B-41C0-A6B6-18A6A6E15F58@iotecdigital.com>
 <B17D61F0-3308-4B72-814C-0ABFEB2FD16F@sonsothunder.com>
 <DA04979F-A61B-46FD-A90F-30E30BF9BD25@iotecdigital.com>
 <461B81FC-317F-410B-A5D1-78F65E23F351@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <5619D0BB-FCBF-4C11-B363-76D4DC170E8D@iotecdigital.com>

What would really be handy is a way to get the detailed file information for a single file. There is a use case where there may be many thousands of files in a directory, and enumerating the detailed files then filtering for the one you want seems onerous and probably time consuming. 

I throught about rolling my own, but then when doing this for Windows and using the shell command I keep getting “file not found.” 

answer file "Select file"  put it into tFileName
put "dir /T:W "  & quote & tFileName & quote into tCmd
put shell(tCmd)

I doubt it but is there a command in Livecode to get the mod date of a file? 

Bob S


> On Jan 14, 2025, at 8:56 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Interestingly, the function form works as well.
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
> On Jan 14, 2025, at 8:48 AM, Bob Sneidar <bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com> wrote:
> 
> Thanks for checking. That is a pretty big bug. I will submit a bug report shortly.
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 


From paul at livecode.org  Tue Jan 14 23:52:18 2025
From: paul at livecode.org (Paul - Livecode)
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2025 23:52:18 -0500
Subject: Help with Linux app built with LC on Mac
In-Reply-To: <06FF0245-8D19-4EF1-9021-3A2A2DBC2170@livecode.org>
References: <BB79235D-9D97-4071-A619-9757F6C722D4@livecode.org>
 <CAPzQJLKnvHPvcnisB=0r7rTbgK0YWz19UcF_2=2yq9DY72Th4A@mail.gmail.com>
 <ADE1CC07-1DF8-4E30-97AC-2FB84E2BE0A3@livecode.org>
 <e33909ed-342f-4b5a-bd24-26aafb604f6b@harbourhosting.co.uk>
 <06FF0245-8D19-4EF1-9021-3A2A2DBC2170@livecode.org>
Message-ID: <DEF1B2A8-148B-4450-8DA0-D6D3C0773650@livecode.org>


Just a quick follow up for anyone following or interested in this issue. Apparently the problem is caused by Parallels on Apple M series devices are running Linux on an ARM platform, so there is no emulator for the x86 commands, it is just a processor compatibility issue. Linux on ARM is a relatively new concept, it may improve in the future, but who knows?
There’s no easy answer (for me at least), I tried installing some suggested ARM compatibility software, but either my lack of understanding of Linux, or their inability to rum LC standalones left me with no resolution, so it’s back to testing on an older Intel Mac with Parallels and Linux for now.

Paul

From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Wed Jan 15 11:12:20 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2025 16:12:20 +0000
Subject: [Ann] An accordion widget
In-Reply-To: <530DE464-546A-4714-85F6-1F580F193A58@uni-wh.de>
References: <530DE464-546A-4714-85F6-1F580F193A58@uni-wh.de>
Message-ID: <09AE11FB-3D2E-4D09-A268-782845C0004A@iotecdigital.com>

Very nice piece of work. Like the datagrid, it shows what can be done with native LC controls and good ingenuity. 

Bob S


> On Jan 11, 2025, at 4:08 AM, Niggemann, Bernd via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> I uploaded a slightly updated version of "Accordion" to the Forum.
> 
> Code cleanup  and subtle change to appearence (even more "material design")
> 
> <https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=39452&p=232973#p232973>
> Accordion for LC<https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=39452&p=232973#p232973>
> forums.livecode.com<https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=39452&p=232973#p232973>
>        [X] <https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=39452&p=232973#p232973>
> 
> 
> 
> Kind regards
> Bernd
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From Bernd.Niggemann at uni-wh.de  Wed Jan 15 13:21:45 2025
From: Bernd.Niggemann at uni-wh.de (Niggemann, Bernd)
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2025 18:21:45 +0000
Subject: [Ann] An accordion widget
Message-ID: <EB9E5A8E-D5B0-4585-A432-DBE27E1E669B@uni-wh.de>

Bob Sneidar via use-livecode<https://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=use-livecode at lists.runrev.com&q=from:%22Bob+Sneidar+via+use%5C-livecode%22> Wed, 15 Jan 2025 08:14:32 -0800<https://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=use-livecode at lists.runrev.com&q=date:20250115>

Very nice piece of work. Like the datagrid, it shows what can be done with
native LC controls and good ingenuity.

Bob S


> On Jan 11, 2025, at 4:08 AM, Niggemann, Bernd via use-livecode
> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> Hello all,
>
> I uploaded a slightly updated version of "Accordion" to the Forum.
>
> Code cleanup  and subtle change to appearence (even more "material design")
>
> <https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=39452&p=232973#p232973>


Thank you Bob for your kind words.

Kind regards
Bernd

From curry at pair.com  Wed Jan 15 15:13:25 2025
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2025 15:13:25 -0500
Subject: The Files Function borked?
In-Reply-To: <5619D0BB-FCBF-4C11-B363-76D4DC170E8D@iotecdigital.com>
References: <5619D0BB-FCBF-4C11-B363-76D4DC170E8D@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <2658d163-391e-459a-a9e3-3212d06d9620@pair.com>

Bob:

 > I keep getting file not found.

 > answer file "Select file"
 > put it into tFileName
 > put "dir /T:W "  & quote & tFileName & quote into tCmd
 > put shell(tCmd)

Whaaa???

Fix your /'s!

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
"PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
https://livecodeconsulting.com/

More news after recuperating a bit....


From mkoob at rogers.com  Wed Jan 15 15:27:17 2025
From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob)
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2025 15:27:17 -0500
Subject: Help with Linux app built with LC on Mac
In-Reply-To: <DEF1B2A8-148B-4450-8DA0-D6D3C0773650@livecode.org>
References: <BB79235D-9D97-4071-A619-9757F6C722D4@livecode.org>
 <CAPzQJLKnvHPvcnisB=0r7rTbgK0YWz19UcF_2=2yq9DY72Th4A@mail.gmail.com>
 <ADE1CC07-1DF8-4E30-97AC-2FB84E2BE0A3@livecode.org>
 <e33909ed-342f-4b5a-bd24-26aafb604f6b@harbourhosting.co.uk>
 <06FF0245-8D19-4EF1-9021-3A2A2DBC2170@livecode.org>
 <DEF1B2A8-148B-4450-8DA0-D6D3C0773650@livecode.org>
Message-ID: <F56076AB-7A5A-4762-86EA-766B9319038C@rogers.com>

Hi Paul

I wonder if you would have a better experience using Docker https://www.docker.com/ to set up a container running Linux on your Mac to do your testing.

I am no expert on Docker and less so on Linux.  I have used Docker to run a web service locally on my Mac to test cmi5 packages for conformance to the standard. The web service is called CATAPULT.  A company called Rustici did all the work and created the image that builds the container and launches the webservice.  On my end I just had to download it, install it and do some configuration (This was the hardest part for me — it involved a few rounds of trial and error but that is more on me as I was hurrying and typing first and reading documentation later.)

Once it was installed I just had to issue a few terminal commands to build the container and then launch the CATAPULT web service  that is used to test cmi5 documents for conformance to the cmi5 standard. Then I accessed the web service using my desktop browser to go to a localhost address.

So that is not exactly what you want to do but I think it can be done.

Here is a blog article on the subject of running Linux apps on a Mac using Docker.
https://blog.alexellis.io/linux-desktop-on-mac/

It was written in 2016 and was using El Capitan so will be out of date — for one thing it wouldn’t be taking into account Apple Silicon CPUs since the first Mac with the M1 was in 2013.  But there is a hub where you can find up to date prebuilt images that are shared with the Docker community  https://hub.docker.com/ .  This includes a whole range of uses  including running Linux Distributions on your Mac (or Windows) machine.


I have not had a need to text an LiveCode app on Linux so I have not used one for this purpose but perhaps it may work better than Parallels.

Anyway just throwing that out there.  I don’t know if it would resolve the x86 vs ARM issue but I see when narrowing down the search I was able to choose the OS and Architecture from the list of filters.  That would imply to me it is emulating the architecture but as I said I only use one ready made image so I don’t know the ins and outs of this.  I am curious though if that is the case.


FILTERS

Trusted content
	✔︎	Docker Official Image
		Verified Publisher
		Sponsored OSS

Operating Systems
	✔︎	Linux
		Windows

Architectures
		ARM
		ARM 64
		IBM POWER
		PowerPC 64 LE
		IBM Z
	✔︎	x86
		x86-64


In the results of that search there were Linux distributions, for example Debian and Ubuntu.

Debian

https://hub.docker.com/_/debian

Ubuntu

https://hub.docker.com/_/ubuntu


Let me know if this is what you were looking for.

Martin Koob

> On Jan 14, 2025, at 11:52 PM, Paul - Livecode via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> 

> 

> Just a quick follow up for anyone following or interested in this issue. Apparently the problem is caused by Parallels on Apple M series devices are running Linux on an ARM platform, so there is no emulator for the x86 commands, it is just a processor compatibility issue. Linux on ARM is a relatively new concept, it may improve in the future, but who knows?

> There’s no easy answer (for me at least), I tried installing some suggested ARM compatibility software, but either my lack of understanding of Linux, or their inability to rum LC standalones left me with no resolution, so it’s back to testing on an older Intel Mac with Parallels and Linux for now.

> 

> Paul

> _______________________________________________

> use-livecode mailing list

> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com

> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:

> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From jbv at souslelogo.com  Sat Jan 18 03:49:17 2025
From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com)
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2025 03:49:17 -0500
Subject: Azure or AWS ?
Message-ID: <c98282b5b52d2ebacf20b17509872800@souslelogo.com>

Hi list,

I have a small LC desktop app that sends requests via curl
to ollama and some AI models. Everything runs fine on my Mac
and now I would like to try to move it to the cloud, but I'm
not sure which platform to choose.
I have read a few blogs like this one :
https://www.shiksha.com/online-courses/articles/aws-vs-azure/
but still can't make my mind...
Even in the cloud, the app will have very low trafic, the main
reason behing moving to the cloud is that some models are too
"big" to fit on my Mac.
Furthermore, I am not sure of the way both platforms charge :
one is per minute and the other per hour, but does it mean
that they keep charging as long as an account exists, or only
when some requests and computations take place ?

Does anyone have any experience on this matter ?
Thank you in advance.

jbv


From curry at pair.com  Sat Jan 18 22:54:14 2025
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2025 22:54:14 -0500
Subject: Low-code dev tools checklist, Red Flags, LC Options to consider
Message-ID: <d8846a04-29fe-4dda-9698-3d6dd4fb0709@pair.com>

Low-code dev tools:

- free demo version is standard.
- crowded market already.
- user pricing bubble will face cooling inflation/novelty.
- belated adoption trend, not brand new technology.
- middle class business growth will favor savvy pricing/terms.

I am still recuperating; not hunting/testing yet.
Not in a rush. When I do....

My Low-code checklist:

- free demo version, no time limit.
- reliable, stable, Low-code done right.
- savvy pricing/terms for versatile projects and clients.
- smart privacy and security options.
- very low hassle and busywork, for myself or clients.
- user pricing targeting affordable end user's pricing.
- welcoming diverse ideas and input, with honest answers.
- full well-thought FAQ.

And when using Self-hosted or local data:

- unlimited users, or very cheap/versatile.
- easy no tracking and enhanced privacy/security options.
- no app kill switch.

Red Flags/Things to avoid:

- app kill switch.
- stubborn tracking requirements.
- audits, busywork, paperwork, snooping, pseudo bureaucracy.
- invalidates other EULAs prematurely.
- tedious user management or data busywork.
- naive or hostile groupthink, favoritism, contradictions.

LC Options to consider:

- LiveCode Create + tweaks for better pricing/terms/privacy.
- LiveCode Community/OpenXTalk + other Low-code dev tool.

Not interested in:

- webinars, live Q&A, videos, inefficient processes.
- frequent 'one time only/last chance' promotions.

Glad to see Low-code dev tools adoption trend - it's about time!
And ... Glad to finally post my follow-up thoughts; Delayed by illness.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
"PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
https://livecodeconsulting.com/

More news after recuperating a bit....


From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Mon Jan 20 10:32:18 2025
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2025 10:32:18 -0500
Subject: Low-code dev tools checklist, Red Flags, LC Options to consider
In-Reply-To: <d8846a04-29fe-4dda-9698-3d6dd4fb0709@pair.com>
References: <d8846a04-29fe-4dda-9698-3d6dd4fb0709@pair.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycOQZ-NzdjqSfMqFCqr9BD1rprqU1HGh-635ob9=bAqzLQ@mail.gmail.com>

in case anyone cares, another low code tool, qodly, came out of beta, and
was released to the public with 1.0.0, today.
https://qodly.com

On Sat, Jan 18, 2025 at 10:55 PM Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Low-code dev tools:
>
> - free demo version is standard.
> - crowded market already.
> - user pricing bubble will face cooling inflation/novelty.
> - belated adoption trend, not brand new technology.
> - middle class business growth will favor savvy pricing/terms.
>
> I am still recuperating; not hunting/testing yet.
> Not in a rush. When I do....
>
> My Low-code checklist:
>
> - free demo version, no time limit.
> - reliable, stable, Low-code done right.
> - savvy pricing/terms for versatile projects and clients.
> - smart privacy and security options.
> - very low hassle and busywork, for myself or clients.
> - user pricing targeting affordable end user's pricing.
> - welcoming diverse ideas and input, with honest answers.
> - full well-thought FAQ.
>
> And when using Self-hosted or local data:
>
> - unlimited users, or very cheap/versatile.
> - easy no tracking and enhanced privacy/security options.
> - no app kill switch.
>
> Red Flags/Things to avoid:
>
> - app kill switch.
> - stubborn tracking requirements.
> - audits, busywork, paperwork, snooping, pseudo bureaucracy.
> - invalidates other EULAs prematurely.
> - tedious user management or data busywork.
> - naive or hostile groupthink, favoritism, contradictions.
>
> LC Options to consider:
>
> - LiveCode Create + tweaks for better pricing/terms/privacy.
> - LiveCode Community/OpenXTalk + other Low-code dev tool.
>
> Not interested in:
>
> - webinars, live Q&A, videos, inefficient processes.
> - frequent 'one time only/last chance' promotions.
>
> Glad to see Low-code dev tools adoption trend - it's about time!
> And ... Glad to finally post my follow-up thoughts; Delayed by illness.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Curry Kenworthy
>
> Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
> "PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
> https://livecodeconsulting.com/
>
> More news after recuperating a bit....
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Tue Jan 21 11:04:36 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2025 16:04:36 +0000
Subject: Azure or AWS ?
In-Reply-To: <c98282b5b52d2ebacf20b17509872800@souslelogo.com>
References: <c98282b5b52d2ebacf20b17509872800@souslelogo.com>
Message-ID: <97242384-F180-4417-B2C4-53A2CE41DFD8@iotecdigital.com>

Just by way of reason, no business model would charge by the minute for uptime. 

Bob S


> On Jan 18, 2025, at 12:49 AM, jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi list,
> 
> I have a small LC desktop app that sends requests via curl
> to ollama and some AI models. Everything runs fine on my Mac
> and now I would like to try to move it to the cloud, but I'm
> not sure which platform to choose.
> I have read a few blogs like this one :
> https://www.shiksha.com/online-courses/articles/aws-vs-azure/
> but still can't make my mind...
> Even in the cloud, the app will have very low trafic, the main
> reason behing moving to the cloud is that some models are too
> "big" to fit on my Mac.
> Furthermore, I am not sure of the way both platforms charge :
> one is per minute and the other per hour, but does it mean
> that they keep charging as long as an account exists, or only
> when some requests and computations take place ?
> 
> Does anyone have any experience on this matter ?
> Thank you in advance.
> 
> jbv
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From harrison at all-auctions.com  Tue Jan 21 12:01:06 2025
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com)
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2025 12:01:06 -0500
Subject: Azure or AWS ?
In-Reply-To: <97242384-F180-4417-B2C4-53A2CE41DFD8@iotecdigital.com>
References: <c98282b5b52d2ebacf20b17509872800@souslelogo.com>
 <97242384-F180-4417-B2C4-53A2CE41DFD8@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <BCD01644-22D6-47A9-B19C-DCBF00532B50@all-auctions.com>

Hi Bob,

In the old days of punch cards, the universities would charge
for the number of seconds it took for your computer program
to run! When many people finally had their own personal computers
that whole idea went out the window.

Just my 2 cents. ;-)

Rick

> On Jan 21, 2025, at 11:04 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Just by way of reason, no business model would charge by the minute for uptime. 
> 
> Bob S


From jmac at consensustech.com  Tue Jan 21 13:15:00 2025
From: jmac at consensustech.com (Jim At Consensus)
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2025 10:15:00 -0800
Subject: Azure or AWS ?
In-Reply-To: <BCD01644-22D6-47A9-B19C-DCBF00532B50@all-auctions.com>
References: <BCD01644-22D6-47A9-B19C-DCBF00532B50@all-auctions.com>
Message-ID: <7BC41224-0F6D-4F2F-820F-DA3202A34D55@consensustech.com>

I remember those days (charge by runtime). We blew the civil engineering department’s annual computer budget on one poorly conceived analysis run. Ooops.
~Jim

Sent from Jim's iPhone
Please excuse brevity, typos and errors

> On Jan 21, 2025, at 9:02 AM, harrison--- via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Bob,
> 
> In the old days of punch cards, the universities would charge
> for the number of seconds it took for your computer program
> to run! When many people finally had their own personal computers
> that whole idea went out the window.
> 
> Just my 2 cents. ;-)
> 
> Rick
> 
>> On Jan 21, 2025, at 11:04 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Just by way of reason, no business model would charge by the minute for uptime.
>> 
>> Bob S
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

From mark at canelasoftware.com  Wed Jan 22 17:11:25 2025
From: mark at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2025 14:11:25 -0800
Subject: Azure or AWS ?
In-Reply-To: <c98282b5b52d2ebacf20b17509872800@souslelogo.com>
References: <c98282b5b52d2ebacf20b17509872800@souslelogo.com>
Message-ID: <F3B8C2F9-AC4C-4AFA-AF90-4BD821FF5BE5@canelasoftware.com>

Hi JBV,

We use Azure and Digital Ocean data centers.

As most of these services go, they charge by time. They will charge you as long as they are yours. That means you can turn them off and still be charged. You have to destroy your droplet or server to stop billing.

You can buy time from Azure for dormant servers (usually late at night or early morning). This may save you some money. It comes with added complexity as you cannot access them until Microsoft deems them ready for use.


Best regards,
Mark Talluto

appli.io <https://appli.io/>
livecloud.io <https://livecloud.io/>
nursenotes.net <https://nursenotes.net/>
canelasoftware.com <https://www.canelasoftware.com/>



> On Jan 18, 2025, at 12:49 AM, jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi list,
> 
> I have a small LC desktop app that sends requests via curl
> to ollama and some AI models. Everything runs fine on my Mac
> and now I would like to try to move it to the cloud, but I'm
> not sure which platform to choose.
> I have read a few blogs like this one :
> https://www.shiksha.com/online-courses/articles/aws-vs-azure/
> but still can't make my mind...
> Even in the cloud, the app will have very low trafic, the main
> reason behing moving to the cloud is that some models are too
> "big" to fit on my Mac.
> Furthermore, I am not sure of the way both platforms charge :
> one is per minute and the other per hour, but does it mean
> that they keep charging as long as an account exists, or only
> when some requests and computations take place ?
> 
> Does anyone have any experience on this matter ?
> Thank you in advance.
> 
> jbv
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From tom at makeshyft.com  Wed Jan 22 19:18:35 2025
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2025 19:18:35 -0500
Subject: Azure or AWS ?
In-Reply-To: <F3B8C2F9-AC4C-4AFA-AF90-4BD821FF5BE5@canelasoftware.com>
References: <c98282b5b52d2ebacf20b17509872800@souslelogo.com>
 <F3B8C2F9-AC4C-4AFA-AF90-4BD821FF5BE5@canelasoftware.com>
Message-ID: <CAPzQJL+PtV2iyu=ZfbzopzeAB2ZPEYCeWSNQ7cA_FmdqnvJ_qg@mail.gmail.com>

Appwrite.io is also an option, I have an implementation forauth, crud, and
object storage.
I like it because its Open source, cloud or self host, and u can migrate
between the two with click of button. (ish?)
Venture backed with lots of devs working on it.

On Wed, Jan 22, 2025 at 5:13 PM Mark Talluto via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi JBV,
>
> We use Azure and Digital Ocean data centers.
>
> As most of these services go, they charge by time. They will charge you as
> long as they are yours. That means you can turn them off and still be
> charged. You have to destroy your droplet or server to stop billing.
>
> You can buy time from Azure for dormant servers (usually late at night or
> early morning). This may save you some money. It comes with added
> complexity as you cannot access them until Microsoft deems them ready for
> use.
>
>
> Best regards,
> Mark Talluto
>
> appli.io <https://appli.io/>
> livecloud.io <https://livecloud.io/>
> nursenotes.net <https://nursenotes.net/>
> canelasoftware.com <https://www.canelasoftware.com/>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 18, 2025, at 12:49 AM, jbv via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi list,
> >
> > I have a small LC desktop app that sends requests via curl
> > to ollama and some AI models. Everything runs fine on my Mac
> > and now I would like to try to move it to the cloud, but I'm
> > not sure which platform to choose.
> > I have read a few blogs like this one :
> > https://www.shiksha.com/online-courses/articles/aws-vs-azure/
> > but still can't make my mind...
> > Even in the cloud, the app will have very low trafic, the main
> > reason behing moving to the cloud is that some models are too
> > "big" to fit on my Mac.
> > Furthermore, I am not sure of the way both platforms charge :
> > one is per minute and the other per hour, but does it mean
> > that they keep charging as long as an account exists, or only
> > when some requests and computations take place ?
> >
> > Does anyone have any experience on this matter ?
> > Thank you in advance.
> >
> > jbv
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From tom at makeshyft.com  Wed Jan 22 19:24:20 2025
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2025 19:24:20 -0500
Subject: Azure or AWS ?
In-Reply-To: <CAPzQJL+PtV2iyu=ZfbzopzeAB2ZPEYCeWSNQ7cA_FmdqnvJ_qg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c98282b5b52d2ebacf20b17509872800@souslelogo.com>
 <F3B8C2F9-AC4C-4AFA-AF90-4BD821FF5BE5@canelasoftware.com>
 <CAPzQJL+PtV2iyu=ZfbzopzeAB2ZPEYCeWSNQ7cA_FmdqnvJ_qg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPzQJLLQSRO98vTe2Rb_abUA=cJDzQpgHejrTt8bFHKRpu7ujQ@mail.gmail.com>

Though Appwrite is something you would put on top of aws or azure, or
digital ocean. But they also have very affortable managed cloud service
that saves u from doing the provisioning .......
So its not exactly the answer to your question, but appwrite is amazing and
i tell everyone about it.

On Wed, Jan 22, 2025 at 7:18 PM Tom Glod <tom at makeshyft.com> wrote:

> Appwrite.io is also an option, I have an implementation forauth, crud, and
> object storage.
> I like it because its Open source, cloud or self host, and u can migrate
> between the two with click of button. (ish?)
> Venture backed with lots of devs working on it.
>
> On Wed, Jan 22, 2025 at 5:13 PM Mark Talluto via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi JBV,
>>
>> We use Azure and Digital Ocean data centers.
>>
>> As most of these services go, they charge by time. They will charge you
>> as long as they are yours. That means you can turn them off and still be
>> charged. You have to destroy your droplet or server to stop billing.
>>
>> You can buy time from Azure for dormant servers (usually late at night or
>> early morning). This may save you some money. It comes with added
>> complexity as you cannot access them until Microsoft deems them ready for
>> use.
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Mark Talluto
>>
>> appli.io <https://appli.io/>
>> livecloud.io <https://livecloud.io/>
>> nursenotes.net <https://nursenotes.net/>
>> canelasoftware.com <https://www.canelasoftware.com/>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Jan 18, 2025, at 12:49 AM, jbv via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi list,
>> >
>> > I have a small LC desktop app that sends requests via curl
>> > to ollama and some AI models. Everything runs fine on my Mac
>> > and now I would like to try to move it to the cloud, but I'm
>> > not sure which platform to choose.
>> > I have read a few blogs like this one :
>> > https://www.shiksha.com/online-courses/articles/aws-vs-azure/
>> > but still can't make my mind...
>> > Even in the cloud, the app will have very low trafic, the main
>> > reason behing moving to the cloud is that some models are too
>> > "big" to fit on my Mac.
>> > Furthermore, I am not sure of the way both platforms charge :
>> > one is per minute and the other per hour, but does it mean
>> > that they keep charging as long as an account exists, or only
>> > when some requests and computations take place ?
>> >
>> > Does anyone have any experience on this matter ?
>> > Thank you in advance.
>> >
>> > jbv
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > use-livecode mailing list
>> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>

From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Wed Jan 22 19:37:47 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2025 00:37:47 +0000
Subject: Low-code dev tools checklist, Red Flags, LC Options to consider
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycOQZ-NzdjqSfMqFCqr9BD1rprqU1HGh-635ob9=bAqzLQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d8846a04-29fe-4dda-9698-3d6dd4fb0709@pair.com>
 <CADCoycOQZ-NzdjqSfMqFCqr9BD1rprqU1HGh-635ob9=bAqzLQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C53AF3FE-4C9B-434B-B150-81434D017950@iotecdigital.com>

Looks like javascript under the hood (of course it does.)

Bob S


On Jan 20, 2025, at 7:32 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

in case anyone cares, another low code tool, qodly, came out of beta, and
was released to the public with 1.0.0, today.
https://qodly.com<https://qodly.com/>


From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Thu Jan 23 09:01:30 2025
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2025 09:01:30 -0500
Subject: Low-code dev tools checklist, Red Flags, LC Options to consider
In-Reply-To: <C53AF3FE-4C9B-434B-B150-81434D017950@iotecdigital.com>
References: <d8846a04-29fe-4dda-9698-3d6dd4fb0709@pair.com>
 <CADCoycOQZ-NzdjqSfMqFCqr9BD1rprqU1HGh-635ob9=bAqzLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <C53AF3FE-4C9B-434B-B150-81434D017950@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycPBEo07bVBpadRRZOzF8wcjtCw5Urv6LMGkBe4YyyNtJQ@mail.gmail.com>

correct, the client framework is running js. the client side of your
project is low/no, so many of the actions you are invoking are inserted to
the widget via a menu. if the widget property editor does not get you what
you want, you are writing CSS.
the server code (where a lot of the action is taking place) is written in
an updated version of 4d's newer ORDA language.
if you remember 4d, it is procedural. the newer syntax is OO, with an ORM.
qodly takes that paradigm a step further and makes the syntax more
modern/JS'y.

From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu Jan 23 11:11:17 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2025 16:11:17 +0000
Subject: Low-code dev tools checklist, Red Flags, LC Options to consider
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycPBEo07bVBpadRRZOzF8wcjtCw5Urv6LMGkBe4YyyNtJQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d8846a04-29fe-4dda-9698-3d6dd4fb0709@pair.com>
 <CADCoycOQZ-NzdjqSfMqFCqr9BD1rprqU1HGh-635ob9=bAqzLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <C53AF3FE-4C9B-434B-B150-81434D017950@iotecdigital.com>
 <CADCoycPBEo07bVBpadRRZOzF8wcjtCw5Urv6LMGkBe4YyyNtJQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AD908E3F-4555-40B0-A614-C77464460E7C@iotecdigital.com>

Yeah we used to have 4th Dimension at a place I worked at many, MANY years ago. The whole flow chart paradigm kinda lost me. 

Bob S


> On Jan 23, 2025, at 6:01 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> correct, the client framework is running js. the client side of your
> project is low/no, so many of the actions you are invoking are inserted to
> the widget via a menu. if the widget property editor does not get you what
> you want, you are writing CSS.
> the server code (where a lot of the action is taking place) is written in
> an updated version of 4d's newer ORDA language.
> if you remember 4d, it is procedural. the newer syntax is OO, with an ORM.
> qodly takes that paradigm a step further and makes the syntax more
> modern/JS'y.
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From jbv at souslelogo.com  Thu Jan 23 12:44:35 2025
From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com)
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2025 12:44:35 -0500
Subject: Azure or AWS ?
In-Reply-To: <CAPzQJL+PtV2iyu=ZfbzopzeAB2ZPEYCeWSNQ7cA_FmdqnvJ_qg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c98282b5b52d2ebacf20b17509872800@souslelogo.com>
 <F3B8C2F9-AC4C-4AFA-AF90-4BD821FF5BE5@canelasoftware.com>
 <CAPzQJL+PtV2iyu=ZfbzopzeAB2ZPEYCeWSNQ7cA_FmdqnvJ_qg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c62a8e4cfcfb672c22607986b4698a3f@souslelogo.com>

For the record, I tried to register at Azure to test their free offer,
but the registration includes a tel.# validation that doesn't work...
So I tried AWS for their free offer, registration went fine, but their
free offer doesn't include GPU usage.
So now I am trying Google Colab.

Regarding Appwrite.io, I might be wrong, but I didn't see any GPU
possibilities in their offers...


Le 2025-01-22 19:18, Tom Glod via use-livecode a crit :
> Appwrite.io is also an option, I have an implementation forauth, crud, 
> and
> object storage.
> I like it because its Open source, cloud or self host, and u can 
> migrate
> between the two with click of button. (ish?)
> Venture backed with lots of devs working on it.
> 


From jbv at souslelogo.com  Thu Jan 23 12:46:41 2025
From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com)
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2025 12:46:41 -0500
Subject: LC and embedding
Message-ID: <638518fad3ca81e0d23b09fabc4fd661@souslelogo.com>

Hi again list,

Has anyone tried to do text embedding from LC on
a CPU-only device ?
Thank you in advance.

jbv


From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Thu Jan 23 15:07:16 2025
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2025 15:07:16 -0500
Subject: Low-code dev tools checklist, Red Flags, LC Options to consider
In-Reply-To: <AD908E3F-4555-40B0-A614-C77464460E7C@iotecdigital.com>
References: <d8846a04-29fe-4dda-9698-3d6dd4fb0709@pair.com>
 <CADCoycOQZ-NzdjqSfMqFCqr9BD1rprqU1HGh-635ob9=bAqzLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <C53AF3FE-4C9B-434B-B150-81434D017950@iotecdigital.com>
 <CADCoycPBEo07bVBpadRRZOzF8wcjtCw5Urv6LMGkBe4YyyNtJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <AD908E3F-4555-40B0-A614-C77464460E7C@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycPsnzexbdTa=E_e7e8FWvYh48AZt1MueCQ1L2jRyJ=_5w@mail.gmail.com>

dude, 4d hasn't used flowcharts since around 1992, and at that time, it was
optional (instead of coding methods like you would usually expect)
you are O-L-D.

On Thu, Jan 23, 2025 at 11:12 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Yeah we used to have 4th Dimension at a place I worked at many, MANY years
> ago. The whole flow chart paradigm kinda lost me.
>
> Bob S
>
>
> > On Jan 23, 2025, at 6:01 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > correct, the client framework is running js. the client side of your
> > project is low/no, so many of the actions you are invoking are inserted
> to
> > the widget via a menu. if the widget property editor does not get you
> what
> > you want, you are writing CSS.
> > the server code (where a lot of the action is taking place) is written in
> > an updated version of 4d's newer ORDA language.
> > if you remember 4d, it is procedural. the newer syntax is OO, with an
> ORM.
> > qodly takes that paradigm a step further and makes the syntax more
> > modern/JS'y.
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Thu Jan 23 15:11:45 2025
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2025 15:11:45 -0500
Subject: Low-code dev tools checklist, Red Flags, LC Options to consider
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycPsnzexbdTa=E_e7e8FWvYh48AZt1MueCQ1L2jRyJ=_5w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d8846a04-29fe-4dda-9698-3d6dd4fb0709@pair.com>
 <CADCoycOQZ-NzdjqSfMqFCqr9BD1rprqU1HGh-635ob9=bAqzLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <C53AF3FE-4C9B-434B-B150-81434D017950@iotecdigital.com>
 <CADCoycPBEo07bVBpadRRZOzF8wcjtCw5Urv6LMGkBe4YyyNtJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <AD908E3F-4555-40B0-A614-C77464460E7C@iotecdigital.com>
 <CADCoycPsnzexbdTa=E_e7e8FWvYh48AZt1MueCQ1L2jRyJ=_5w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycMim0SXeFcEeB0xcHZVnd+3e1PU9jZtPdOYjACsOX=aGQ@mail.gmail.com>

i mean, i'm kinda old, which is how i remember the dates.
that, and my first job out of B-school was a combination
hypercard/supercard/4d nerd.
come to think of it, i think 4dv2 was 1990, and, at that time, flowcharts
were optional.

On Thu, Jan 23, 2025 at 3:07 PM Mike Kerner <MikeKerner at roadrunner.com>
wrote:

> dude, 4d hasn't used flowcharts since around 1992, and at that time, it
> was optional (instead of coding methods like you would usually expect)
> you are O-L-D.
>
> On Thu, Jan 23, 2025 at 11:12 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> Yeah we used to have 4th Dimension at a place I worked at many, MANY
>> years ago. The whole flow chart paradigm kinda lost me.
>>
>> Bob S
>>
>>
>> > On Jan 23, 2025, at 6:01 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > correct, the client framework is running js. the client side of your
>> > project is low/no, so many of the actions you are invoking are inserted
>> to
>> > the widget via a menu. if the widget property editor does not get you
>> what
>> > you want, you are writing CSS.
>> > the server code (where a lot of the action is taking place) is written
>> in
>> > an updated version of 4d's newer ORDA language.
>> > if you remember 4d, it is procedural. the newer syntax is OO, with an
>> ORM.
>> > qodly takes that paradigm a step further and makes the syntax more
>> > modern/JS'y.
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > use-livecode mailing list
>> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>    and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Jan 24 00:08:14 2025
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2025 23:08:14 -0600
Subject: Low-code dev tools checklist, Red Flags, LC Options to consider
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycMim0SXeFcEeB0xcHZVnd+3e1PU9jZtPdOYjACsOX=aGQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d8846a04-29fe-4dda-9698-3d6dd4fb0709@pair.com>
 <CADCoycOQZ-NzdjqSfMqFCqr9BD1rprqU1HGh-635ob9=bAqzLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <C53AF3FE-4C9B-434B-B150-81434D017950@iotecdigital.com>
 <CADCoycPBEo07bVBpadRRZOzF8wcjtCw5Urv6LMGkBe4YyyNtJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <AD908E3F-4555-40B0-A614-C77464460E7C@iotecdigital.com>
 <CADCoycPsnzexbdTa=E_e7e8FWvYh48AZt1MueCQ1L2jRyJ=_5w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADCoycMim0SXeFcEeB0xcHZVnd+3e1PU9jZtPdOYjACsOX=aGQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <19496b5f230.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

Anyone who cut their teeth on HyperCard is old now. <cough>

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On January 23, 2025 2:14:17 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> i mean, i'm kinda old, which is how i remember the dates.
> that, and my first job out of B-school was a combination
> hypercard/supercard/4d nerd.
> come to think of it, i think 4dv2 was 1990, and, at that time, flowcharts
> were optional.
>
> On Thu, Jan 23, 2025 at 3:07PM Mike Kerner <MikeKerner at roadrunner.com>
> wrote:
>
>> dude, 4d hasn't used flowcharts since around 1992, and at that time, it
>> was optional (instead of coding methods like you would usually expect)
>> you are O-L-D.
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 23, 2025 at 11:12AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah we used to have 4th Dimension at a place I worked at many, MANY
>>> years ago. The whole flow chart paradigm kinda lost me.
>>>
>>> Bob S
>>>
>>>
>>> > On Jan 23, 2025, at 6:01 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > correct, the client framework is running js. the client side of your
>>> > project is low/no, so many of the actions you are invoking are inserted
>>> to
>>> > the widget via a menu. if the widget property editor does not get you
>>> what
>>> > you want, you are writing CSS.
>>> > the server code (where a lot of the action is taking place) is written
>>> in
>>> > an updated version of 4d's newer ORDA language.
>>> > if you remember 4d, it is procedural. the newer syntax is OO, with an
>>> ORM.
>>> > qodly takes that paradigm a step further and makes the syntax more
>>> > modern/JS'y.
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > use-livecode mailing list
>>> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
>> On the second day, God created the oceans.
>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>>    and did a little diving.
>> And God said, "This is good."
>>
>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>   and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Jan 24 11:21:19 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2025 16:21:19 +0000
Subject: Low-code dev tools checklist, Red Flags, LC Options to consider
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycPsnzexbdTa=E_e7e8FWvYh48AZt1MueCQ1L2jRyJ=_5w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d8846a04-29fe-4dda-9698-3d6dd4fb0709@pair.com>
 <CADCoycOQZ-NzdjqSfMqFCqr9BD1rprqU1HGh-635ob9=bAqzLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <C53AF3FE-4C9B-434B-B150-81434D017950@iotecdigital.com>
 <CADCoycPBEo07bVBpadRRZOzF8wcjtCw5Urv6LMGkBe4YyyNtJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <AD908E3F-4555-40B0-A614-C77464460E7C@iotecdigital.com>
 <CADCoycPsnzexbdTa=E_e7e8FWvYh48AZt1MueCQ1L2jRyJ=_5w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BDBA3611-2CC2-4972-B746-9796D3B5A9C4@iotecdigital.com>

D-U-H! :-)

Bob S


> On Jan 23, 2025, at 12:07 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> dude, 4d hasn't used flowcharts since around 1992, and at that time, it was
> optional (instead of coding methods like you would usually expect)
> you are O-L-D.
> 
> On Thu, Jan 23, 2025 at 11:12 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Yeah we used to have 4th Dimension at a place I worked at many, MANY years
>> ago. The whole flow chart paradigm kinda lost me.
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 23, 2025, at 6:01 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> correct, the client framework is running js. the client side of your
>>> project is low/no, so many of the actions you are invoking are inserted
>> to
>>> the widget via a menu. if the widget property editor does not get you
>> what
>>> you want, you are writing CSS.
>>> the server code (where a lot of the action is taking place) is written in
>>> an updated version of 4d's newer ORDA language.
>>> if you remember 4d, it is procedural. the newer syntax is OO, with an
>> ORM.
>>> qodly takes that paradigm a step further and makes the syntax more
>>> modern/JS'y.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>   and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Jan 24 11:24:16 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2025 16:24:16 +0000
Subject: Low-code dev tools checklist, Red Flags, LC Options to consider
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycMim0SXeFcEeB0xcHZVnd+3e1PU9jZtPdOYjACsOX=aGQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d8846a04-29fe-4dda-9698-3d6dd4fb0709@pair.com>
 <CADCoycOQZ-NzdjqSfMqFCqr9BD1rprqU1HGh-635ob9=bAqzLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <C53AF3FE-4C9B-434B-B150-81434D017950@iotecdigital.com>
 <CADCoycPBEo07bVBpadRRZOzF8wcjtCw5Urv6LMGkBe4YyyNtJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <AD908E3F-4555-40B0-A614-C77464460E7C@iotecdigital.com>
 <CADCoycPsnzexbdTa=E_e7e8FWvYh48AZt1MueCQ1L2jRyJ=_5w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADCoycMim0SXeFcEeB0xcHZVnd+3e1PU9jZtPdOYjACsOX=aGQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DEB8AF4C-E8FB-495E-AD5F-7F19894E97A8@iotecdigital.com>

The first viable app I created for use for others was a hypercard stack where a person entered responses from listeners for a syndicated radio station 501c3. Each month the user would then run a report that listed income generated, as well as money owed. (Sometimes stations paid us, sometimes we paid the station.) I even had it writing checks.

Bob S


On Jan 23, 2025, at 12:11 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

i mean, i'm kinda old, which is how i remember the dates.
that, and my first job out of B-school was a combination
hypercard/supercard/4d nerd.
come to think of it, i think 4dv2 was 1990, and, at that time, flowcharts
were optional.


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Jan 24 11:25:13 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2025 16:25:13 +0000
Subject: Low-code dev tools checklist, Red Flags, LC Options to consider
In-Reply-To: <19496b5f230.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <d8846a04-29fe-4dda-9698-3d6dd4fb0709@pair.com>
 <CADCoycOQZ-NzdjqSfMqFCqr9BD1rprqU1HGh-635ob9=bAqzLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <C53AF3FE-4C9B-434B-B150-81434D017950@iotecdigital.com>
 <CADCoycPBEo07bVBpadRRZOzF8wcjtCw5Urv6LMGkBe4YyyNtJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <AD908E3F-4555-40B0-A614-C77464460E7C@iotecdigital.com>
 <CADCoycPsnzexbdTa=E_e7e8FWvYh48AZt1MueCQ1L2jRyJ=_5w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADCoycMim0SXeFcEeB0xcHZVnd+3e1PU9jZtPdOYjACsOX=aGQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <19496b5f230.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <82F2A3BF-37D2-46BC-8736-29663287811F@iotecdigital.com>

Yeah. <looks sideways> <coughs>

Bob S


> On Jan 23, 2025, at 9:08 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Anyone who cut their teeth on HyperCard is old now. <cough>
> 
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On January 23, 2025 2:14:17 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> i mean, i'm kinda old, which is how i remember the dates.
>> that, and my first job out of B-school was a combination
>> hypercard/supercard/4d nerd.
>> come to think of it, i think 4dv2 was 1990, and, at that time, flowcharts
>> were optional.
>> 
>> On Thu, Jan 23, 2025 at 3:07 PM Mike Kerner <MikeKerner at roadrunner.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> dude, 4d hasn't used flowcharts since around 1992, and at that time, it
>>> was optional (instead of coding methods like you would usually expect)
>>> you are O-L-D.
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Jan 23, 2025 at 11:12 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Yeah we used to have 4th Dimension at a place I worked at many, MANY
>>>> years ago. The whole flow chart paradigm kinda lost me.
>>>> 
>>>> Bob S
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> > On Jan 23, 2025, at 6:01 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > correct, the client framework is running js. the client side of your
>>>> > project is low/no, so many of the actions you are invoking are inserted
>>>> to
>>>> > the widget via a menu. if the widget property editor does not get you
>>>> what
>>>> > you want, you are writing CSS.
>>>> > the server code (where a lot of the action is taking place) is written
>>>> in
>>>> > an updated version of 4d's newer ORDA language.
>>>> > if you remember 4d, it is procedural. the newer syntax is OO, with an
>>>> ORM.
>>>> > qodly takes that paradigm a step further and makes the syntax more
>>>> > modern/JS'y.
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > use-livecode mailing list
>>>> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
>>> On the second day, God created the oceans.
>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>>>   and did a little diving.
>>> And God said, "This is good."
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
>> On the second day, God created the oceans.
>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>>  and did a little diving.
>> And God said, "This is good."
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Jan 24 12:06:34 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2025 17:06:34 +0000
Subject: The Files Function borked?
In-Reply-To: <2658d163-391e-459a-a9e3-3212d06d9620@pair.com>
References: <5619D0BB-FCBF-4C11-B363-76D4DC170E8D@iotecdigital.com>
 <2658d163-391e-459a-a9e3-3212d06d9620@pair.com>
Message-ID: <1A239072-2F40-4A5E-96B3-0ED9AA8F191F@iotecdigital.com>

When I use answer file on a parallels share folder (one from the MacOS) I get something like this: 

C:/Mac/Home/Desktop/patch1.hex

When I use the dir command it correctly resolves the path, but cannot find the file:

U:\>dir /T:W "C:/Mac/Home/Desktop/patch1.hex"
 Volume in drive C has no label.
 Volume Serial Number is D892-E6EA

 Directory of C:\Mac\Home\Desktop

File Not Found

U:\>

But this works:

U:\>dir /T:W "\\Mac\Home\Desktop\patch1.hex"
 Volume in drive \\Mac\Home is Shared Folders
 Volume Serial Number is 0000-0000

 Directory of \\Mac\Home\Desktop

10/20/2023  12:06 AM               408 patch1.hex
               1 File(s)            408 bytes
               0 Dir(s)  393,116,905,472 bytes free

So in the first example it looks like Windows correctly resolves the file path, but then cannot find the file! 

I think what I need is a way to reliably convert a file path from the format that Livecode uses to the format the command consolve can use. I could have sworn that LC had a function to convert to and from Windows file paths, but I can’t find it in the dictionary. I’ll probably have to roll my own. 

Bob S


> On Jan 15, 2025, at 12:13 PM, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Bob:
> 
> > I keep getting “file not found.”
> 
> > answer file "Select file"
> > put it into tFileName
> > put "dir /T:W "  & quote & tFileName & quote into tCmd
> > put shell(tCmd)
> 
> Whaaa???
> 
> Fix your /'s!
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Curry Kenworthy
> 
> Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
> "PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
> https://livecodeconsulting.com/
> 
> More news after recuperating a bit....
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Jan 24 12:24:37 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2025 17:24:37 +0000
Subject: The Files Function borked?
In-Reply-To: <1A239072-2F40-4A5E-96B3-0ED9AA8F191F@iotecdigital.com>
References: <5619D0BB-FCBF-4C11-B363-76D4DC170E8D@iotecdigital.com>
 <2658d163-391e-459a-a9e3-3212d06d9620@pair.com>
 <1A239072-2F40-4A5E-96B3-0ED9AA8F191F@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <EBF26142-FCFC-4F2E-A5A4-F91241891BDD@iotecdigital.com>

Okay I see on windows all I need to do is replace slash with backslash. Too easy. :-)

Bob S

> On Jan 24, 2025, at 9:06 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Jan 24 17:26:14 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2025 22:26:14 +0000
Subject: Detailed File Info
Message-ID: <4940616C-E18A-4A3A-8914-72921B610267@iotecdigital.com>

Hi all. 

I’ve been wanting to write a function for getting the size and the last modified datetime of one specific file. I finally figured out how to do it. Here’s the function. Enjoy. 

function getDetailedFileInfo pFilePath
   -- new method use shell
   if the platform contains "win" then   
      replace slash with backslash in pFilePath
      put "dir /T:W "  & quote & pFilePath & quote into tShellCommand
      put shell(tShellCommand) into tResult
      put word 1 of line 6 of tResult into tDate
      put formatDate(tDate, "sql date") into tDate
      put word 2 of line 6 of tResult into tTime
      put formatTime(tTime, "sql time") into tTime
      put tDate && tTime into tDateTime
      put word 4 of line 6 of tResult into tFileSize
      replace comma with empty in tFileSize
      put tFileSize *1000 into tFileSize
   else
      put "getFileInfo -m" && quote & pFilePath & quote into tShellCommand
      put shell(tShellCommand) into tResult
      put formatDate(word 1 of tResult, "sql date") && \
            formatTime(word 2 of tResult, "sql time") into tDateTime
      put "echo "& quote & "$(( $(stat -f'%z' filename)))" & quote into tShellCommand
      replace fileName with "'" & pFilePath & "'" in tShellCommand
      put word 1 of shell(tShellCommand) into tFileSize
   end if
   
   put tFilePath & comma & tFileSize & comma & tDateTime & cr after tNewDetailedFiles
   return tNewDetailedFiles
end getDetailedFileInfo

FUNCTION formatDate theDate, theFormat
   /*
   Accepts any valid date for the first parameter. If not a valid date, it simply returns
   what was passed. Second parameter can be any of the following:
   sql date: date in the yyyy-mm-dd format
   short date, abbreviated date, internet date, long date: LC versions of the same
   julian date: Julian number based on (I believe) Jacques formula
   standard date: The date in the form of "mm/dd/yyyy"
   */
   
   put theDate into tSavedDate
   put the itemdelimiter into theOldDelim
   set the itemdelimiter to "-"
   
   IF the length of item 1 of theDate = 4 AND \
         the number of items of theDate = 3 AND \
         item 1 of theDate is a number AND \
         item 2 of theDate is a number AND \
         item 3 of theDate is a number THEN
      put item 2 of theDate & "/" & \
            item 3 of theDate & "/" & \
            item 1 of theDate into theDate
   END IF
   
   -- replace "." with "/" in theDate
   convert theDate to dateitems
   set the itemdelimiter to theOldDelim
   
   --   if the number of items of theDate <> 7 then
   --      answer "'" & theDate & "' is not a valid date format!"
   --      return tSavedDate
   --   end if
   
   SWITCH word 1 of theFormat
      CASE "sql"
         /*
         put item 1 of theDate & "-" & \
               format("%02d",item 2 of theDate) & "-" & \
               format("%02d",item 3 of theDate) into theDate
         */
         put format("%s-%02d-%02d", item 1 of theDate, item 2 of theDate, \
               item 3 of theDate) into theDate
         break
      CASE "short"
         convert theDate from dateitems to short date
         break
      CASE "abbreviated"
         convert theDate from dateitems to abbreviated date
         break
      CASE "abbr"
         convert theDate from dateitems to abbreviated date
         break
      CASE "internet"
         convert theDate from dateitems to internet date
         break
      CASE "long"
         convert theDate from dateitems to long date
         break
      CASE "julian"
         put the date into theDate
         convert theDate to dateItems
         IF  ((item 2 of theDate = 1) OR (item 2 of theDate = 2)) THEN
            put 1 into theDay
         ELSE
            put 0 into theDay
         END IF
         put item 1 of theDate + 4800 - theDay into theYear
         put item 2 of theDate + (12 * theDay) - 3 into theMonth
         put item 3 of theDate + \
               ((153 * theMonth + 2) div 5) + \
               (365 * theYear) + \
               (theYear div 4) - \
               (theYear div 100) + \
               (theYear div 400) - \
               32045 into theDate
         break
      case "standard"
         put format("%02d/%02d/%04d", item 2 of theDate, item 3 of theDate, \
               item 1 of theDate) into theDate
         break
      default 
         put tSavedDate into theDate
   END SWITCH
   
   return theDate
END formatDate

FUNCTION formatTime theTime, tOutFormat, tInFormat
   /*
   formatTime accepts any valid time and returns the form of the time specified in the second parameter.
   The valid formats are:
   sql time: hh:mm:ss (Note: combining sql date from the formatDate() function with the
   sql time will produce a valid SQL date time type).
   short time: LC short time format
   abbreviated time: LC abbr time format (same as short time)
   long time: LC long time format
   seconds: the number of seconds since the prior midnight
   military: the military time 00:00 - 23:59
   */
   
   IF theTime is empty THEN return empty
   if tOutFormat is empty then return theTime
   if tInFormat is empty then put "short time" into tInFormat
   
   if tOutFormat is among the items of "short time,long time,abbreviated time,seconds" then
      put "convert theTime from " & tInFormat & " to " & tOutFormat into tCommand
      do tCommand
      return theTime
   end if
   
   -- strip leading and trailing spaces
   put word 1 to -1 of theTime into theTime
   
   -- replace spaces with colons
   replace space with colon in theTime
   replace ":AM" with " AM" in theTime
   replace ":PM" with " PM" in theTime
   
   -- convert integer to time
   if theTime is an integer then \
         put theTime & ":" & "00" into theTime
   
   -- determine if seconds are in theTime
   set the itemDelimiter to ":"
   put the number of items of theTime >2 into tUseSeconds
   set the itemDelimiter to ","
   
   set the numberformat to "00"
   SWITCH word 1 of tOutFormat
      CASE "sql"
         convert theTime to dateitems
         put (item 4 of theTime +0) & ":" & \
               (item 5 of theTime +0) & ":" & \
               (item 6 of theTime +0) into theTime
         break
      CASE "short"
         convert theTime to short time
         break
      CASE "abbreviated"
         convert theTime to abbreviated time
         break
      CASE "long"
         convert theTime to long time
         break
      CASE "seconds"
         convert theTime to seconds
         break
      CASE "military"
         put theTime into tMilitaryTime
         convert tMilitaryTime to dateitems
         put 0 + item 4 of tMilitaryTime & ":" & 0 + item 5 of tMilitaryTime into theTime
         if tUseSeconds is true then \
               put ":" & 0 + item 6 of tMilitaryTime after theTime
         break
   END SWITCH
   
   return theTime
END formatTime

Bob S

From curry at pair.com  Sun Jan 26 17:32:03 2025
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2025 17:32:03 -0500
Subject: The Files Function borked?
In-Reply-To: <EBF26142-FCFC-4F2E-A5A4-F91241891BDD@iotecdigital.com>
References: <EBF26142-FCFC-4F2E-A5A4-F91241891BDD@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <47f25424-0d8b-45a8-8720-d79426b2966e@pair.com>

Curry:

 > Fix your /'s!

Bob:

 > all I need to do is replace slash with backslash. Too easy. :-)

You're welcome. See, a one liner - not War and Peace!

Best wishes,

Curry K.


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Mon Jan 27 12:17:42 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2025 17:17:42 +0000
Subject: Popup Button bug??
Message-ID: <89890A6A-0504-417D-A765-A29ECB9B1433@iotecdigital.com>

Hi all. 

I have the command: 
popup pMenuButton at pLocation

pMenuButton contains:
button “mnuLocations"

pLocation contains: 
55,303

I am getting the error: 
stack "moduleCardBehavior": execution error at line 360 (subwindow: can't find stack or button), char 1

I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. What in the name of all <fill in the blank> is going on here??

Bob S


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Mon Jan 27 12:27:03 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2025 17:27:03 +0000
Subject: Popup Button bug??
In-Reply-To: <89890A6A-0504-417D-A765-A29ECB9B1433@iotecdigital.com>
References: <89890A6A-0504-417D-A765-A29ECB9B1433@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <AF356B85-BE50-455E-BBEC-19D47EA4F318@iotecdigital.com>

Okay, it appears that this command can only be used in a mouseDown handler. That isn’t entirely clear in the dictionary. I am simply trying to present a menu to the user. I will use a different kind of menu button then, and just show and hide the button. 

Bob S


> On Jan 27, 2025, at 9:17 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi all. 
> 
> I have the command: 
> popup pMenuButton at pLocation
> 
> pMenuButton contains:
> button “mnuLocations"
> 
> pLocation contains: 
> 55,303
> 
> I am getting the error: 
> stack "moduleCardBehavior": execution error at line 360 (subwindow: can't find stack or button), char 1
> 
> I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. What in the name of all <fill in the blank> is going on here??
> 
> Bob S
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From craig at starfirelighting.com  Mon Jan 27 12:28:30 2025
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2025 12:28:30 -0500
Subject: Popup Button bug??
In-Reply-To: <89890A6A-0504-417D-A765-A29ECB9B1433@iotecdigital.com>
References: <89890A6A-0504-417D-A765-A29ECB9B1433@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <13A570DF-C22D-4207-AF6F-9E8B306FC26E@starfirelighting.com>

Bob .

“popup” is not a command that creates a button. It only works with an existing button, opening its contents at a location of your choice. That button can be hidden, but its menu will appear anyway.

Craig

> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:17 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi all. 
> 
> I have the command: 
> popup pMenuButton at pLocation
> 
> pMenuButton contains:
> button “mnuLocations"
> 
> pLocation contains: 
> 55,303
> 
> I am getting the error: 
> stack "moduleCardBehavior": execution error at line 360 (subwindow: can't find stack or button), char 1
> 
> I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. What in the name of all <fill in the blank> is going on here??
> 
> Bob S
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From paul at researchware.com  Mon Jan 27 12:29:47 2025
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2025 12:29:47 -0500
Subject: Popup Button bug??
In-Reply-To: <89890A6A-0504-417D-A765-A29ECB9B1433@iotecdigital.com>
References: <89890A6A-0504-417D-A765-A29ECB9B1433@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <0498d82b-fa0b-4d4a-ad1b-65c3f2037b68@researchware.com>

Is this new and occurring on macOS Sequoia?

I ask as I have some popup (and other) menu weirdness happening that is 
new to Sequoia.


On 1/27/2025 12:17 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi all.
>
> I have the command:
> popup pMenuButton at pLocation
>
> pMenuButton contains:
> button mnuLocations"
>
> pLocation contains:
> 55,303
>
> I am getting the error:
> stack "moduleCardBehavior": execution error at line 360 (subwindow: can't find stack or button), char 1
>
> I assure everyone there *IS* a button called mnuLocations. What in the name of all <fill in the blank> is going on here??
>
> Bob S
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Mon Jan 27 12:31:59 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2025 17:31:59 +0000
Subject: Popup Button bug??
In-Reply-To: <13A570DF-C22D-4207-AF6F-9E8B306FC26E@starfirelighting.com>
References: <89890A6A-0504-417D-A765-A29ECB9B1433@iotecdigital.com>
 <13A570DF-C22D-4207-AF6F-9E8B306FC26E@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <244221DA-4E41-4608-BC54-B863A9888D2E@iotecdigital.com>

Understood. That is why I wrote, I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. As I posted later, this command can only be used in a mouseDown handler. I think I knew this many, many years ago, but I forgot. 

Bob S


> On Jan 27, 2025, at 9:28 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Bob .
> 
> “popup” is not a command that creates a button. It only works with an existing button, opening its contents at a location of your choice. That button can be hidden, but its menu will appear anyway.
> 
> Craig
> 
>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:17 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all. 
>> 
>> I have the command: 
>> popup pMenuButton at pLocation
>> 
>> pMenuButton contains:
>> button “mnuLocations"
>> 
>> pLocation contains: 
>> 55,303
>> 
>> I am getting the error: 
>> stack "moduleCardBehavior": execution error at line 360 (subwindow: can't find stack or button), char 1
>> 
>> I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. What in the name of all <fill in the blank> is going on here??
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From craig at starfirelighting.com  Mon Jan 27 12:39:42 2025
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2025 12:39:42 -0500
Subject: Popup Button bug??
In-Reply-To: <244221DA-4E41-4608-BC54-B863A9888D2E@iotecdigital.com>
References: <89890A6A-0504-417D-A765-A29ECB9B1433@iotecdigital.com>
 <13A570DF-C22D-4207-AF6F-9E8B306FC26E@starfirelighting.com>
 <244221DA-4E41-4608-BC54-B863A9888D2E@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <743BAC20-6A22-43D2-B3BC-DF6B2C14DA3F@starfirelighting.com>

Bob.

It works just fine in a mouseUp handler as well. I just did it. 

Craig

> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:31 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Understood. That is why I wrote, I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. As I posted later, this command can only be used in a mouseDown handler. I think I knew this many, many years ago, but I forgot. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 9:28 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Bob .
>> 
>> “popup” is not a command that creates a button. It only works with an existing button, opening its contents at a location of your choice. That button can be hidden, but its menu will appear anyway.
>> 
>> Craig
>> 
>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:17 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all. 
>>> 
>>> I have the command: 
>>> popup pMenuButton at pLocation
>>> 
>>> pMenuButton contains:
>>> button “mnuLocations"
>>> 
>>> pLocation contains: 
>>> 55,303
>>> 
>>> I am getting the error: 
>>> stack "moduleCardBehavior": execution error at line 360 (subwindow: can't find stack or button), char 1
>>> 
>>> I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. What in the name of all <fill in the blank> is going on here??
>>> 
>>> Bob S
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From craig at starfirelighting.com  Mon Jan 27 12:47:21 2025
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2025 12:47:21 -0500
Subject: Popup Button bug??
In-Reply-To: <743BAC20-6A22-43D2-B3BC-DF6B2C14DA3F@starfirelighting.com>
References: <89890A6A-0504-417D-A765-A29ECB9B1433@iotecdigital.com>
 <13A570DF-C22D-4207-AF6F-9E8B306FC26E@starfirelighting.com>
 <244221DA-4E41-4608-BC54-B863A9888D2E@iotecdigital.com>
 <743BAC20-6A22-43D2-B3BC-DF6B2C14DA3F@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <B659E1F8-4465-4463-80FF-55C5DA263184@starfirelighting.com>

It also works with any style of menu-style button, combobox, pulldown, etc.

Craig

> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:39 PM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Bob.
> 
> It works just fine in a mouseUp handler as well. I just did it. 
> 
> Craig
> 
>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:31 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Understood. That is why I wrote, I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. As I posted later, this command can only be used in a mouseDown handler. I think I knew this many, many years ago, but I forgot. 
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 9:28 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Bob .
>>> 
>>> “popup” is not a command that creates a button. It only works with an existing button, opening its contents at a location of your choice. That button can be hidden, but its menu will appear anyway.
>>> 
>>> Craig
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:17 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi all. 
>>>> 
>>>> I have the command: 
>>>> popup pMenuButton at pLocation
>>>> 
>>>> pMenuButton contains:
>>>> button “mnuLocations"
>>>> 
>>>> pLocation contains: 
>>>> 55,303
>>>> 
>>>> I am getting the error: 
>>>> stack "moduleCardBehavior": execution error at line 360 (subwindow: can't find stack or button), char 1
>>>> 
>>>> I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. What in the name of all <fill in the blank> is going on here??
>>>> 
>>>> Bob S
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Mon Jan 27 14:01:44 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2025 19:01:44 +0000
Subject: Popup Button bug??
In-Reply-To: <743BAC20-6A22-43D2-B3BC-DF6B2C14DA3F@starfirelighting.com>
References: <89890A6A-0504-417D-A765-A29ECB9B1433@iotecdigital.com>
 <13A570DF-C22D-4207-AF6F-9E8B306FC26E@starfirelighting.com>
 <244221DA-4E41-4608-BC54-B863A9888D2E@iotecdigital.com>
 <743BAC20-6A22-43D2-B3BC-DF6B2C14DA3F@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <F5549BD0-FA11-40AD-A6A0-135272E27304@iotecdigital.com>

Interesting, the dictionary didn’t mention mouseUp. But some kind of mouse up or down handler has to be what makes the call. 

It turns out that rolling your own blocking popup “menu” is not very straightforward. Here is what I came up with: 

on popupMenu pMenu, pItems, pLocation
   -- anything less than 3 lines and the scrollbar does not display correctly
   if the number of lines of pItems >3 and \
         the last char pItems is cr then \
         delete last char of pItems
   
   set the text of pMenu to pItems
   set the height of pMenu to \
         min(the formattedHeight of pMenu, 178) — for me 178 is 10 lines of formattedText YMMV
   set the width of pMenu to the formattedWidth of pMenu
   set the topLeft of pMenu to pLocation
   show pMenu 
   focus on pMenu
   set the hilitedLine of pMenu to empty -- because focus will auto-select line 1
   wait until the visible of pMenu is false with messages
end popupMenu


— in the script of a Scrolling List Field
local lParentCard

on selectionChanged
   put getParentCard(the long id of me) into lParentCard
   put the hilitedLine of me into tLine
   put line tLine of the text of me into tItem
   set the currentLocation of lParentCard to tItem — or whatever you want to do with tItem
   hide me
end selectionChanged

on escapeKey
   selectionChanged
end escapeKey

on focusOut
   selectionChanged
end focusOut

FUNCTION getParentCard pObjectID
   put offset("card id", pObjectID) into tStartChar
   put char tStartChar to -1 of pObjectID into tCardID
   return tCardID
END getParentCard

Bob S

> On Jan 27, 2025, at 9:39 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Bob.
> 
> It works just fine in a mouseUp handler as well. I just did it. 
> 
> Craig
> 
>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:31 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Understood. That is why I wrote, I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. As I posted later, this command can only be used in a mouseDown handler. I think I knew this many, many years ago, but I forgot. 
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 9:28 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Bob .
>>> 
>>> “popup” is not a command that creates a button. It only works with an existing button, opening its contents at a location of your choice. That button can be hidden, but its menu will appear anyway.
>>> 
>>> Craig
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:17 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi all. 
>>>> 
>>>> I have the command: 
>>>> popup pMenuButton at pLocation
>>>> 
>>>> pMenuButton contains:
>>>> button “mnuLocations"
>>>> 
>>>> pLocation contains: 
>>>> 55,303
>>>> 
>>>> I am getting the error: 
>>>> stack "moduleCardBehavior": execution error at line 360 (subwindow: can't find stack or button), char 1
>>>> 
>>>> I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. What in the name of all <fill in the blank> is going on here??
>>>> 
>>>> Bob S
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From craig at starfirelighting.com  Mon Jan 27 15:27:32 2025
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2025 15:27:32 -0500
Subject: Popup Button bug??
In-Reply-To: <F5549BD0-FA11-40AD-A6A0-135272E27304@iotecdigital.com>
References: <89890A6A-0504-417D-A765-A29ECB9B1433@iotecdigital.com>
 <13A570DF-C22D-4207-AF6F-9E8B306FC26E@starfirelighting.com>
 <244221DA-4E41-4608-BC54-B863A9888D2E@iotecdigital.com>
 <743BAC20-6A22-43D2-B3BC-DF6B2C14DA3F@starfirelighting.com>
 <F5549BD0-FA11-40AD-A6A0-135272E27304@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <68662892-00A0-493A-97D2-27038664B20D@starfirelighting.com>

Bob.

What are you trying to accomplish that the native buttons do not do for you? The popUp command, to me, is simply a tool to invoke a display of resident menuItems that do not necessarily have to live at the button location itself, and that button not even needing to be visible.

Are you adding a lot of additional gadgetry?

Craig

> On Jan 27, 2025, at 2:01 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Interesting, the dictionary didn’t mention mouseUp. But some kind of mouse up or down handler has to be what makes the call. 
> 
> It turns out that rolling your own blocking popup “menu” is not very straightforward. Here is what I came up with: 
> 
> on popupMenu pMenu, pItems, pLocation
>   -- anything less than 3 lines and the scrollbar does not display correctly
>   if the number of lines of pItems >3 and \
>         the last char pItems is cr then \
>         delete last char of pItems
> 
>   set the text of pMenu to pItems
>   set the height of pMenu to \
>         min(the formattedHeight of pMenu, 178) — for me 178 is 10 lines of formattedText YMMV
>   set the width of pMenu to the formattedWidth of pMenu
>   set the topLeft of pMenu to pLocation
>   show pMenu 
>   focus on pMenu
>   set the hilitedLine of pMenu to empty -- because focus will auto-select line 1
>   wait until the visible of pMenu is false with messages
> end popupMenu
> 
> 
> — in the script of a Scrolling List Field
> local lParentCard
> 
> on selectionChanged
>   put getParentCard(the long id of me) into lParentCard
>   put the hilitedLine of me into tLine
>   put line tLine of the text of me into tItem
>   set the currentLocation of lParentCard to tItem — or whatever you want to do with tItem
>   hide me
> end selectionChanged
> 
> on escapeKey
>   selectionChanged
> end escapeKey
> 
> on focusOut
>   selectionChanged
> end focusOut
> 
> FUNCTION getParentCard pObjectID
>   put offset("card id", pObjectID) into tStartChar
>   put char tStartChar to -1 of pObjectID into tCardID
>   return tCardID
> END getParentCard
> 
> Bob S
> 
>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 9:39 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Bob.
>> 
>> It works just fine in a mouseUp handler as well. I just did it. 
>> 
>> Craig
>> 
>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:31 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Understood. That is why I wrote, I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. As I posted later, this command can only be used in a mouseDown handler. I think I knew this many, many years ago, but I forgot. 
>>> 
>>> Bob S
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 9:28 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Bob .
>>>> 
>>>> “popup” is not a command that creates a button. It only works with an existing button, opening its contents at a location of your choice. That button can be hidden, but its menu will appear anyway.
>>>> 
>>>> Craig
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:17 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi all. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have the command: 
>>>>> popup pMenuButton at pLocation
>>>>> 
>>>>> pMenuButton contains:
>>>>> button “mnuLocations"
>>>>> 
>>>>> pLocation contains: 
>>>>> 55,303
>>>>> 
>>>>> I am getting the error: 
>>>>> stack "moduleCardBehavior": execution error at line 360 (subwindow: can't find stack or button), char 1
>>>>> 
>>>>> I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. What in the name of all <fill in the blank> is going on here??
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bob S
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Mon Jan 27 16:18:19 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2025 21:18:19 +0000
Subject: Popup Button bug??
In-Reply-To: <68662892-00A0-493A-97D2-27038664B20D@starfirelighting.com>
References: <89890A6A-0504-417D-A765-A29ECB9B1433@iotecdigital.com>
 <13A570DF-C22D-4207-AF6F-9E8B306FC26E@starfirelighting.com>
 <244221DA-4E41-4608-BC54-B863A9888D2E@iotecdigital.com>
 <743BAC20-6A22-43D2-B3BC-DF6B2C14DA3F@starfirelighting.com>
 <F5549BD0-FA11-40AD-A6A0-135272E27304@iotecdigital.com>
 <68662892-00A0-493A-97D2-27038664B20D@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <1DCE4EFF-BF95-4B95-804F-F889D85AA6E8@iotecdigital.com>

Not at all. I have a File Server Agent that uses socket communications. I first get a list of files from the user, then I query the server or a list of what I call Profiles which right now are just a name and a file path on the server. 

I want to present the client user with a list of the names of those profiles. If the user does not select a profile, either by clicking off the menu I pop up, or by hitting the escape key, then I notify the user that they must choose a profile. 

If they do choose a profile then I send the server an array with some key/values, and the file data is stored in a numbered array in the data key. Each key in the data keys is first encrypted, then tho whole of the array is arrayEncoded, then base 64Encoded before opening a socket and sending the data. 

I tried using the popup menu button but that will not work unless the popup button command is called from a mouseDown or mouseUp handler. I am making the call from a behavior script which is why I was getting the error. And besides, you can’t control the popup menu’s appearance, whereas with a field you can. Also I am anticipating having more values than can be entirely displayed by a popup menu without running out of screen real estate, so a scrolling field works much better. 

I’m curious how you would do that with native controls? 

Bob S


> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:27 PM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Bob.
> 
> What are you trying to accomplish that the native buttons do not do for you? The popUp command, to me, is simply a tool to invoke a display of resident menuItems that do not necessarily have to live at the button location itself, and that button not even needing to be visible.
> 
> Are you adding a lot of additional gadgetry?
> 
> Craig
> 
>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 2:01 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Interesting, the dictionary didn’t mention mouseUp. But some kind of mouse up or down handler has to be what makes the call. 
>> 
>> It turns out that rolling your own blocking popup “menu” is not very straightforward. Here is what I came up with: 
>> 
>> on popupMenu pMenu, pItems, pLocation
>>  -- anything less than 3 lines and the scrollbar does not display correctly
>>  if the number of lines of pItems >3 and \
>>        the last char pItems is cr then \
>>        delete last char of pItems
>> 
>>  set the text of pMenu to pItems
>>  set the height of pMenu to \
>>        min(the formattedHeight of pMenu, 178) — for me 178 is 10 lines of formattedText YMMV
>>  set the width of pMenu to the formattedWidth of pMenu
>>  set the topLeft of pMenu to pLocation
>>  show pMenu 
>>  focus on pMenu
>>  set the hilitedLine of pMenu to empty -- because focus will auto-select line 1
>>  wait until the visible of pMenu is false with messages
>> end popupMenu
>> 
>> 
>> — in the script of a Scrolling List Field
>> local lParentCard
>> 
>> on selectionChanged
>>  put getParentCard(the long id of me) into lParentCard
>>  put the hilitedLine of me into tLine
>>  put line tLine of the text of me into tItem
>>  set the currentLocation of lParentCard to tItem — or whatever you want to do with tItem
>>  hide me
>> end selectionChanged
>> 
>> on escapeKey
>>  selectionChanged
>> end escapeKey
>> 
>> on focusOut
>>  selectionChanged
>> end focusOut
>> 
>> FUNCTION getParentCard pObjectID
>>  put offset("card id", pObjectID) into tStartChar
>>  put char tStartChar to -1 of pObjectID into tCardID
>>  return tCardID
>> END getParentCard
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 9:39 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Bob.
>>> 
>>> It works just fine in a mouseUp handler as well. I just did it. 
>>> 
>>> Craig
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:31 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Understood. That is why I wrote, I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. As I posted later, this command can only be used in a mouseDown handler. I think I knew this many, many years ago, but I forgot. 
>>>> 
>>>> Bob S
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 9:28 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bob .
>>>>> 
>>>>> “popup” is not a command that creates a button. It only works with an existing button, opening its contents at a location of your choice. That button can be hidden, but its menu will appear anyway.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Craig
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:17 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi all. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I have the command: 
>>>>>> popup pMenuButton at pLocation
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> pMenuButton contains:
>>>>>> button “mnuLocations"
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> pLocation contains: 
>>>>>> 55,303
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I am getting the error: 
>>>>>> stack "moduleCardBehavior": execution error at line 360 (subwindow: can't find stack or button), char 1
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. What in the name of all <fill in the blank> is going on here??
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Bob S
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From craig at starfirelighting.com  Tue Jan 28 10:07:06 2025
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2025 10:07:06 -0500
Subject: Popup Button bug??
In-Reply-To: <1DCE4EFF-BF95-4B95-804F-F889D85AA6E8@iotecdigital.com>
References: <89890A6A-0504-417D-A765-A29ECB9B1433@iotecdigital.com>
 <13A570DF-C22D-4207-AF6F-9E8B306FC26E@starfirelighting.com>
 <244221DA-4E41-4608-BC54-B863A9888D2E@iotecdigital.com>
 <743BAC20-6A22-43D2-B3BC-DF6B2C14DA3F@starfirelighting.com>
 <F5549BD0-FA11-40AD-A6A0-135272E27304@iotecdigital.com>
 <68662892-00A0-493A-97D2-27038664B20D@starfirelighting.com>
 <1DCE4EFF-BF95-4B95-804F-F889D85AA6E8@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <28A27452-27BA-4618-9BC5-A6F71F332EC5@starfirelighting.com>

Did you try my stack? It does not use a button at all for the menuItem list, rather a field. Looks the same, much easier to manage.

Craig

> On Jan 27, 2025, at 4:18 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Not at all. I have a File Server Agent that uses socket communications. I first get a list of files from the user, then I query the server or a list of what I call Profiles which right now are just a name and a file path on the server. 
> 
> I want to present the client user with a list of the names of those profiles. If the user does not select a profile, either by clicking off the menu I pop up, or by hitting the escape key, then I notify the user that they must choose a profile. 
> 
> If they do choose a profile then I send the server an array with some key/values, and the file data is stored in a numbered array in the data key. Each key in the data keys is first encrypted, then tho whole of the array is arrayEncoded, then base 64Encoded before opening a socket and sending the data. 
> 
> I tried using the popup menu button but that will not work unless the popup button command is called from a mouseDown or mouseUp handler. I am making the call from a behavior script which is why I was getting the error. And besides, you can’t control the popup menu’s appearance, whereas with a field you can. Also I am anticipating having more values than can be entirely displayed by a popup menu without running out of screen real estate, so a scrolling field works much better. 
> 
> I’m curious how you would do that with native controls? 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:27 PM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Bob.
>> 
>> What are you trying to accomplish that the native buttons do not do for you? The popUp command, to me, is simply a tool to invoke a display of resident menuItems that do not necessarily have to live at the button location itself, and that button not even needing to be visible.
>> 
>> Are you adding a lot of additional gadgetry?
>> 
>> Craig
>> 
>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 2:01 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Interesting, the dictionary didn’t mention mouseUp. But some kind of mouse up or down handler has to be what makes the call. 
>>> 
>>> It turns out that rolling your own blocking popup “menu” is not very straightforward. Here is what I came up with: 
>>> 
>>> on popupMenu pMenu, pItems, pLocation
>>> -- anything less than 3 lines and the scrollbar does not display correctly
>>> if the number of lines of pItems >3 and \
>>>       the last char pItems is cr then \
>>>       delete last char of pItems
>>> 
>>> set the text of pMenu to pItems
>>> set the height of pMenu to \
>>>       min(the formattedHeight of pMenu, 178) — for me 178 is 10 lines of formattedText YMMV
>>> set the width of pMenu to the formattedWidth of pMenu
>>> set the topLeft of pMenu to pLocation
>>> show pMenu 
>>> focus on pMenu
>>> set the hilitedLine of pMenu to empty -- because focus will auto-select line 1
>>> wait until the visible of pMenu is false with messages
>>> end popupMenu
>>> 
>>> 
>>> — in the script of a Scrolling List Field
>>> local lParentCard
>>> 
>>> on selectionChanged
>>> put getParentCard(the long id of me) into lParentCard
>>> put the hilitedLine of me into tLine
>>> put line tLine of the text of me into tItem
>>> set the currentLocation of lParentCard to tItem — or whatever you want to do with tItem
>>> hide me
>>> end selectionChanged
>>> 
>>> on escapeKey
>>> selectionChanged
>>> end escapeKey
>>> 
>>> on focusOut
>>> selectionChanged
>>> end focusOut
>>> 
>>> FUNCTION getParentCard pObjectID
>>> put offset("card id", pObjectID) into tStartChar
>>> put char tStartChar to -1 of pObjectID into tCardID
>>> return tCardID
>>> END getParentCard
>>> 
>>> Bob S
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 9:39 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Bob.
>>>> 
>>>> It works just fine in a mouseUp handler as well. I just did it. 
>>>> 
>>>> Craig
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:31 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Understood. That is why I wrote, I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. As I posted later, this command can only be used in a mouseDown handler. I think I knew this many, many years ago, but I forgot. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bob S
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 9:28 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Bob .
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> “popup” is not a command that creates a button. It only works with an existing button, opening its contents at a location of your choice. That button can be hidden, but its menu will appear anyway.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Craig
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:17 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi all. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I have the command: 
>>>>>>> popup pMenuButton at pLocation
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> pMenuButton contains:
>>>>>>> button “mnuLocations"
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> pLocation contains: 
>>>>>>> 55,303
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I am getting the error: 
>>>>>>> stack "moduleCardBehavior": execution error at line 360 (subwindow: can't find stack or button), char 1
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. What in the name of all <fill in the blank> is going on here??
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Bob S
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Tue Jan 28 11:04:58 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2025 16:04:58 +0000
Subject: Popup Button bug??
In-Reply-To: <28A27452-27BA-4618-9BC5-A6F71F332EC5@starfirelighting.com>
References: <89890A6A-0504-417D-A765-A29ECB9B1433@iotecdigital.com>
 <13A570DF-C22D-4207-AF6F-9E8B306FC26E@starfirelighting.com>
 <244221DA-4E41-4608-BC54-B863A9888D2E@iotecdigital.com>
 <743BAC20-6A22-43D2-B3BC-DF6B2C14DA3F@starfirelighting.com>
 <F5549BD0-FA11-40AD-A6A0-135272E27304@iotecdigital.com>
 <68662892-00A0-493A-97D2-27038664B20D@starfirelighting.com>
 <1DCE4EFF-BF95-4B95-804F-F889D85AA6E8@iotecdigital.com>
 <28A27452-27BA-4618-9BC5-A6F71F332EC5@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <E540111F-EFF0-45DA-9F2D-F62B0D63B049@iotecdigital.com>

Is it modal?

Bob S


> On Jan 28, 2025, at 7:07 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Did you try my stack? It does not use a button at all for the menuItem list, rather a field. Looks the same, much easier to manage.
> 
> Craig
> 
>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 4:18 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Not at all. I have a File Server Agent that uses socket communications. I first get a list of files from the user, then I query the server or a list of what I call Profiles which right now are just a name and a file path on the server. 
>> 
>> I want to present the client user with a list of the names of those profiles. If the user does not select a profile, either by clicking off the menu I pop up, or by hitting the escape key, then I notify the user that they must choose a profile. 
>> 
>> If they do choose a profile then I send the server an array with some key/values, and the file data is stored in a numbered array in the data key. Each key in the data keys is first encrypted, then tho whole of the array is arrayEncoded, then base 64Encoded before opening a socket and sending the data. 
>> 
>> I tried using the popup menu button but that will not work unless the popup button command is called from a mouseDown or mouseUp handler. I am making the call from a behavior script which is why I was getting the error. And besides, you can’t control the popup menu’s appearance, whereas with a field you can. Also I am anticipating having more values than can be entirely displayed by a popup menu without running out of screen real estate, so a scrolling field works much better. 
>> 
>> I’m curious how you would do that with native controls? 
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:27 PM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Bob.
>>> 
>>> What are you trying to accomplish that the native buttons do not do for you? The popUp command, to me, is simply a tool to invoke a display of resident menuItems that do not necessarily have to live at the button location itself, and that button not even needing to be visible.
>>> 
>>> Are you adding a lot of additional gadgetry?
>>> 
>>> Craig
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 2:01 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Interesting, the dictionary didn’t mention mouseUp. But some kind of mouse up or down handler has to be what makes the call. 
>>>> 
>>>> It turns out that rolling your own blocking popup “menu” is not very straightforward. Here is what I came up with: 
>>>> 
>>>> on popupMenu pMenu, pItems, pLocation
>>>> -- anything less than 3 lines and the scrollbar does not display correctly
>>>> if the number of lines of pItems >3 and \
>>>>      the last char pItems is cr then \
>>>>      delete last char of pItems
>>>> 
>>>> set the text of pMenu to pItems
>>>> set the height of pMenu to \
>>>>      min(the formattedHeight of pMenu, 178) — for me 178 is 10 lines of formattedText YMMV
>>>> set the width of pMenu to the formattedWidth of pMenu
>>>> set the topLeft of pMenu to pLocation
>>>> show pMenu 
>>>> focus on pMenu
>>>> set the hilitedLine of pMenu to empty -- because focus will auto-select line 1
>>>> wait until the visible of pMenu is false with messages
>>>> end popupMenu
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> — in the script of a Scrolling List Field
>>>> local lParentCard
>>>> 
>>>> on selectionChanged
>>>> put getParentCard(the long id of me) into lParentCard
>>>> put the hilitedLine of me into tLine
>>>> put line tLine of the text of me into tItem
>>>> set the currentLocation of lParentCard to tItem — or whatever you want to do with tItem
>>>> hide me
>>>> end selectionChanged
>>>> 
>>>> on escapeKey
>>>> selectionChanged
>>>> end escapeKey
>>>> 
>>>> on focusOut
>>>> selectionChanged
>>>> end focusOut
>>>> 
>>>> FUNCTION getParentCard pObjectID
>>>> put offset("card id", pObjectID) into tStartChar
>>>> put char tStartChar to -1 of pObjectID into tCardID
>>>> return tCardID
>>>> END getParentCard
>>>> 
>>>> Bob S
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 9:39 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bob.
>>>>> 
>>>>> It works just fine in a mouseUp handler as well. I just did it. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Craig
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:31 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Understood. That is why I wrote, I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. As I posted later, this command can only be used in a mouseDown handler. I think I knew this many, many years ago, but I forgot. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Bob S
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 9:28 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Bob .
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> “popup” is not a command that creates a button. It only works with an existing button, opening its contents at a location of your choice. That button can be hidden, but its menu will appear anyway.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Craig
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:17 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hi all. 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I have the command: 
>>>>>>>> popup pMenuButton at pLocation
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> pMenuButton contains:
>>>>>>>> button “mnuLocations"
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> pLocation contains: 
>>>>>>>> 55,303
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I am getting the error: 
>>>>>>>> stack "moduleCardBehavior": execution error at line 360 (subwindow: can't find stack or button), char 1
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. What in the name of all <fill in the blank> is going on here??
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Bob S
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Tue Jan 28 11:06:19 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2025 16:06:19 +0000
Subject: Popup Button bug??
In-Reply-To: <28A27452-27BA-4618-9BC5-A6F71F332EC5@starfirelighting.com>
References: <89890A6A-0504-417D-A765-A29ECB9B1433@iotecdigital.com>
 <13A570DF-C22D-4207-AF6F-9E8B306FC26E@starfirelighting.com>
 <244221DA-4E41-4608-BC54-B863A9888D2E@iotecdigital.com>
 <743BAC20-6A22-43D2-B3BC-DF6B2C14DA3F@starfirelighting.com>
 <F5549BD0-FA11-40AD-A6A0-135272E27304@iotecdigital.com>
 <68662892-00A0-493A-97D2-27038664B20D@starfirelighting.com>
 <1DCE4EFF-BF95-4B95-804F-F889D85AA6E8@iotecdigital.com>
 <28A27452-27BA-4618-9BC5-A6F71F332EC5@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <7F904509-053F-46DB-98DA-AE69D46D85A4@iotecdigital.com>

I am also using a field. Half the magic occurrs outside the field script though. 

Bob S


> On Jan 28, 2025, at 7:07 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Did you try my stack? It does not use a button at all for the menuItem list, rather a field. Looks the same, much easier to manage.
> 
> Craig
> 
>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 4:18 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Not at all. I have a File Server Agent that uses socket communications. I first get a list of files from the user, then I query the server or a list of what I call Profiles which right now are just a name and a file path on the server. 
>> 
>> I want to present the client user with a list of the names of those profiles. If the user does not select a profile, either by clicking off the menu I pop up, or by hitting the escape key, then I notify the user that they must choose a profile. 
>> 
>> If they do choose a profile then I send the server an array with some key/values, and the file data is stored in a numbered array in the data key. Each key in the data keys is first encrypted, then tho whole of the array is arrayEncoded, then base 64Encoded before opening a socket and sending the data. 
>> 
>> I tried using the popup menu button but that will not work unless the popup button command is called from a mouseDown or mouseUp handler. I am making the call from a behavior script which is why I was getting the error. And besides, you can’t control the popup menu’s appearance, whereas with a field you can. Also I am anticipating having more values than can be entirely displayed by a popup menu without running out of screen real estate, so a scrolling field works much better. 
>> 
>> I’m curious how you would do that with native controls? 
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:27 PM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Bob.
>>> 
>>> What are you trying to accomplish that the native buttons do not do for you? The popUp command, to me, is simply a tool to invoke a display of resident menuItems that do not necessarily have to live at the button location itself, and that button not even needing to be visible.
>>> 
>>> Are you adding a lot of additional gadgetry?
>>> 
>>> Craig
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 2:01 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Interesting, the dictionary didn’t mention mouseUp. But some kind of mouse up or down handler has to be what makes the call. 
>>>> 
>>>> It turns out that rolling your own blocking popup “menu” is not very straightforward. Here is what I came up with: 
>>>> 
>>>> on popupMenu pMenu, pItems, pLocation
>>>> -- anything less than 3 lines and the scrollbar does not display correctly
>>>> if the number of lines of pItems >3 and \
>>>>      the last char pItems is cr then \
>>>>      delete last char of pItems
>>>> 
>>>> set the text of pMenu to pItems
>>>> set the height of pMenu to \
>>>>      min(the formattedHeight of pMenu, 178) — for me 178 is 10 lines of formattedText YMMV
>>>> set the width of pMenu to the formattedWidth of pMenu
>>>> set the topLeft of pMenu to pLocation
>>>> show pMenu 
>>>> focus on pMenu
>>>> set the hilitedLine of pMenu to empty -- because focus will auto-select line 1
>>>> wait until the visible of pMenu is false with messages
>>>> end popupMenu
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> — in the script of a Scrolling List Field
>>>> local lParentCard
>>>> 
>>>> on selectionChanged
>>>> put getParentCard(the long id of me) into lParentCard
>>>> put the hilitedLine of me into tLine
>>>> put line tLine of the text of me into tItem
>>>> set the currentLocation of lParentCard to tItem — or whatever you want to do with tItem
>>>> hide me
>>>> end selectionChanged
>>>> 
>>>> on escapeKey
>>>> selectionChanged
>>>> end escapeKey
>>>> 
>>>> on focusOut
>>>> selectionChanged
>>>> end focusOut
>>>> 
>>>> FUNCTION getParentCard pObjectID
>>>> put offset("card id", pObjectID) into tStartChar
>>>> put char tStartChar to -1 of pObjectID into tCardID
>>>> return tCardID
>>>> END getParentCard
>>>> 
>>>> Bob S
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 9:39 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bob.
>>>>> 
>>>>> It works just fine in a mouseUp handler as well. I just did it. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Craig
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:31 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Understood. That is why I wrote, I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. As I posted later, this command can only be used in a mouseDown handler. I think I knew this many, many years ago, but I forgot. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Bob S
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 9:28 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Bob .
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> “popup” is not a command that creates a button. It only works with an existing button, opening its contents at a location of your choice. That button can be hidden, but its menu will appear anyway.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Craig
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:17 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hi all. 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I have the command: 
>>>>>>>> popup pMenuButton at pLocation
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> pMenuButton contains:
>>>>>>>> button “mnuLocations"
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> pLocation contains: 
>>>>>>>> 55,303
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I am getting the error: 
>>>>>>>> stack "moduleCardBehavior": execution error at line 360 (subwindow: can't find stack or button), char 1
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. What in the name of all <fill in the blank> is going on here??
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Bob S
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Tue Jan 28 12:56:15 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2025 17:56:15 +0000
Subject: Popup Button bug??
In-Reply-To: <7F904509-053F-46DB-98DA-AE69D46D85A4@iotecdigital.com>
References: <89890A6A-0504-417D-A765-A29ECB9B1433@iotecdigital.com>
 <13A570DF-C22D-4207-AF6F-9E8B306FC26E@starfirelighting.com>
 <244221DA-4E41-4608-BC54-B863A9888D2E@iotecdigital.com>
 <743BAC20-6A22-43D2-B3BC-DF6B2C14DA3F@starfirelighting.com>
 <F5549BD0-FA11-40AD-A6A0-135272E27304@iotecdigital.com>
 <68662892-00A0-493A-97D2-27038664B20D@starfirelighting.com>
 <1DCE4EFF-BF95-4B95-804F-F889D85AA6E8@iotecdigital.com>
 <28A27452-27BA-4618-9BC5-A6F71F332EC5@starfirelighting.com>
 <7F904509-053F-46DB-98DA-AE69D46D85A4@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <90EF44E3-1AA1-43A2-89EF-9766171B1BAC@iotecdigital.com>

Okay I see what you did. Actually, what I wanted was to have an empty choice to start with, because users are prone to do the minimal necessary, and will just click the save button without thinking about where the file will be stored. By creating the menu in such a way that either a valid choice is made or else any other action dismisses the "popup menu” I can check that the user selected a valid folder profile. 

Bob S


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Jan 28 17:07:20 2025
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2025 22:07:20 +0000
Subject: Popup Button bug??
Message-ID: <395bcd5da616090cf91c6f71df2bff112ba7fc01@fourthworld.com>

Bob Sneidar wrote:
> I want to present the client user with a list of the names of those profiles.
> If the user does not select a profile, either by clicking off the menu I pop
> up, or by hitting the escape key, then I notify the user that they must
> choose a profile. 

Have you considered a list in modal dialog? 

This would allow a more spacious display for the list and the prompt, prohibit proceeding without the necessary selection, make that necessity clear in its prompt and initially-disabled confirmation button, and offer the option of being entirely keyboard-navigable.


But I'm also curious:

What information does the user need to consider to make that choice, and what would their decision tree look like?

And are some choices better than others?  Are there any that would be a "wrong" choice?  Any that would be a "best" choice?  What are the implications to the system when a suboptimal choice is made?

--
Richard Gaskin
FourthWorld.com


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Tue Jan 28 18:39:26 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2025 23:39:26 +0000
Subject: Popup Button bug??
In-Reply-To: <395bcd5da616090cf91c6f71df2bff112ba7fc01@fourthworld.com>
References: <395bcd5da616090cf91c6f71df2bff112ba7fc01@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <B987729C-9A88-4FBA-A993-EAC9E97624F2@iotecdigital.com>

> On Jan 28, 2025, at 2:07 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Bob Sneidar wrote:
>> I want to present the client user with a list of the names of those profiles.
>> If the user does not select a profile, either by clicking off the menu I pop
>> up, or by hitting the escape key, then I notify the user that they must
>> choose a profile. 
> 
> Have you considered a list in modal dialog? 
I have issues troubleshooting modal stacks so I avoid them if I can. 
> 
> This would allow a more spacious display for the list and the prompt, prohibit proceeding without the necessary selection, make that necessity clear in its prompt and initially-disabled confirmation button, and offer the option of being entirely keyboard-navigable.
Good points, and the keyboard navigation part is tempting. 
> 
> 
> But I'm also curious:
> 
> What information does the user need to consider to make that choice, and what would their decision tree look like?
Service technicians would store two types of documents: Data files (text files, address book backups, clone data etc.) and Forms (PDFs of service forms presented to the customer.) 

But this is the foundation to a more sophisticated document management system, where these storage profiles will be linked to document workflows. Things like Purchase Orders. AP and AR invoices, Sales Orders etc. The solution we currently use, Docuware that was supposed to supplant DocRecord is completely cloud based, and incredibly expensive, especially when we add the storage and extra user licenses we will need for all of our salespersons and accounting and executive staff. 

My ambitious goal is to create a system we control, and then if the company adopts it I can justify the licensing for the new LC product LC Create. But if I cannot demonstrate a viable product, I do not think I can sell the powers that be on the new licensing model. 
> 
> And are some choices better than others?  Are there any that would be a "wrong" choice?  Any that would be a "best" choice?  What are the implications to the system when a suboptimal choice is made?
The only suboptimal choice would be no choice. There has to be some indication of where the file needs to be stored on the server end. I don’t want to define a default because if you leave it up to end users to change the location profile from the default, the untrained and the unconcerned alike are just going to leave defaults as they are. There will be a point at which the user can cancel the file transfer before the payload gets sent. 

That being said, I will have to develop a mode to reassign a document in case of an error, and especially when the workflows begin to take shape. 
> 
> --
> Richard Gaskin
> FourthWorld.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From tom at makeshyft.com  Wed Jan  1 23:35:18 2025
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2025 23:35:18 -0500
Subject: Help with Linux app built with LC on Mac
In-Reply-To: <BB79235D-9D97-4071-A619-9757F6C722D4@livecode.org>
References: <BB79235D-9D97-4071-A619-9757F6C722D4@livecode.org>
Message-ID: <CAPzQJLKnvHPvcnisB=0r7rTbgK0YWz19UcF_2=2yq9DY72Th4A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Paul, does your app have a browser in it ? if so, you need to build the
linux build on a linux box.
Perhaps this is true for some of the other necessary inclusions.
Thats the only experience I've had with working linux builds vs not
working.
Let us know if you figure it out.



On Tue, Dec 31, 2024 at 6:32 PM Paul - Livecode via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>
> Hi everyone,
>
> I’ve been a long-time list member, but never really felt the need to ask
> for advice until now. I’ve just built a small app using LC 9.6.13 and built
> standalones for Mac, Windows, and Linux, which I may look at distributing
> once all testing is done.
>
> I’m using a MacBook Pro M2 for development, and I have Parallels for
> testing. The Mac and Windows versions appear to be working fine, but when I
> try to launch the Linux standalone in Ubuntu via Parallels, it won’t even
> launch. When I double-click the app icon, there is no response. The same is
> true if I right-click and choose “Run”. I checked the app and folder
> permissions, and they appear to be OK. The app is on the Linux partition,
> and I have tried both the standard and x64 versions.
>
> I’ve never used Linux before, apart from on RPi, so I’m not sure if there
> is something that I am missing or doing wrong. Any ideas or advice would be
> gratefully received.
>
> Thank you, and wishing you all a wonderful New Year.
>
> Paul
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From paul at livecode.org  Thu Jan  2 12:17:46 2025
From: paul at livecode.org (Paul - Livecode)
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2025 09:17:46 -0800
Subject: Help with Linux app built with LC on Mac
In-Reply-To: <CAPzQJLKnvHPvcnisB=0r7rTbgK0YWz19UcF_2=2yq9DY72Th4A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BB79235D-9D97-4071-A619-9757F6C722D4@livecode.org>
 <CAPzQJLKnvHPvcnisB=0r7rTbgK0YWz19UcF_2=2yq9DY72Th4A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ADE1CC07-1DF8-4E30-97AC-2FB84E2BE0A3@livecode.org>

Hi Tom, thanks for the suggestion. No, there is no browser in the app, it is just a simple app for manipulating and editing specific CSV files. It does use quite a few modern widget controls though, mainly a Polygrid and a few Powerbuttons. Although I also tested a very simple hello world app, and I couldn’t get that to run in Linux under Parallels on Mac M2, both my app and the simple test run fine in Linux under Parallels on an Intel Mac, so there is definitely something odd going on. Not sure if it’s just my setup or if it’s a LC/Parallels/M2 thing. 

I’m hoping to send it off to LC today, but I’m going to be travelling for a few days after tomorrow, so I may have to follow up with this later next week.

Paul


> On Jan 1, 2025, at 20:35, Tom Glod via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Paul, does your app have a browser in it ? if so, you need to build the
> linux build on a linux box.
> Perhaps this is true for some of the other necessary inclusions.
> Thats the only experience I've had with working linux builds vs not
> working.
> Let us know if you figure it out.
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Dec 31, 2024 at 6:32 PM Paul - Livecode via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Hi everyone,
>> 
>> I’ve been a long-time list member, but never really felt the need to ask
>> for advice until now. I’ve just built a small app using LC 9.6.13 and built
>> standalones for Mac, Windows, and Linux, which I may look at distributing
>> once all testing is done.
>> 
>> I’m using a MacBook Pro M2 for development, and I have Parallels for
>> testing. The Mac and Windows versions appear to be working fine, but when I
>> try to launch the Linux standalone in Ubuntu via Parallels, it won’t even
>> launch. When I double-click the app icon, there is no response. The same is
>> true if I right-click and choose “Run”. I checked the app and folder
>> permissions, and they appear to be OK. The app is on the Linux partition,
>> and I have tried both the standard and x64 versions.
>> 
>> I’ve never used Linux before, apart from on RPi, so I’m not sure if there
>> is something that I am missing or doing wrong. Any ideas or advice would be
>> gratefully received.
>> 
>> Thank you, and wishing you all a wonderful New Year.
>> 
>> Paul
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From mblivecode at harbourhosting.co.uk  Sun Jan  5 07:14:49 2025
From: mblivecode at harbourhosting.co.uk (Martin Baxter)
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2025 12:14:49 +0000
Subject: Help with Linux app built with LC on Mac
In-Reply-To: <ADE1CC07-1DF8-4E30-97AC-2FB84E2BE0A3@livecode.org>
References: <BB79235D-9D97-4071-A619-9757F6C722D4@livecode.org>
 <CAPzQJLKnvHPvcnisB=0r7rTbgK0YWz19UcF_2=2yq9DY72Th4A@mail.gmail.com>
 <ADE1CC07-1DF8-4E30-97AC-2FB84E2BE0A3@livecode.org>
Message-ID: <e33909ed-342f-4b5a-bd24-26aafb604f6b@harbourhosting.co.uk>

Hi Paul

1 Does the application have executable permission on linux?

2 If it does, the issue might perhaps be missing dependencies
check on the linux command line:

ldd <path to application>

that will return a list of libraries on which the app depends and the 
path to them, you would need to install any that are not present

Martin

On 02/01/2025 17:17, Paul - Livecode via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi Tom, thanks for the suggestion. No, there is no browser in the app, it is just a simple app for manipulating and editing specific CSV files. It does use quite a few modern widget controls though, mainly a Polygrid and a few Powerbuttons. Although I also tested a very simple hello world app, and I couldnt get that to run in Linux under Parallels on Mac M2, both my app and the simple test run fine in Linux under Parallels on an Intel Mac, so there is definitely something odd going on. Not sure if its just my setup or if its a LC/Parallels/M2 thing.
> 
> Im hoping to send it off to LC today, but Im going to be travelling for a few days after tomorrow, so I may have to follow up with this later next week.
> 
> Paul
> 
> 
>> On Jan 1, 2025, at 20:35, Tom Glod via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Paul, does your app have a browser in it ? if so, you need to build the
>> linux build on a linux box.
>> Perhaps this is true for some of the other necessary inclusions.
>> Thats the only experience I've had with working linux builds vs not
>> working.
>> Let us know if you figure it out.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 31, 2024 at 6:32PM Paul - Livecode via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hi everyone,
>>>
>>> Ive been a long-time list member, but never really felt the need to ask
>>> for advice until now. Ive just built a small app using LC 9.6.13 and built
>>> standalones for Mac, Windows, and Linux, which I may look at distributing
>>> once all testing is done.
>>>
>>> Im using a MacBook Pro M2 for development, and I have Parallels for
>>> testing. The Mac and Windows versions appear to be working fine, but when I
>>> try to launch the Linux standalone in Ubuntu via Parallels, it wont even
>>> launch. When I double-click the app icon, there is no response. The same is
>>> true if I right-click and choose Run. I checked the app and folder
>>> permissions, and they appear to be OK. The app is on the Linux partition,
>>> and I have tried both the standard and x64 versions.
>>>
>>> Ive never used Linux before, apart from on RPi, so Im not sure if there
>>> is something that I am missing or doing wrong. Any ideas or advice would be
>>> gratefully received.
>>>
>>> Thank you, and wishing you all a wonderful New Year.
>>>
>>> Paul
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Jan 10 13:02:30 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2025 18:02:30 +0000
Subject: MacOS compatibility
Message-ID: <C9E70478-EA10-4609-8DC8-BE2808A514A6@iotecdigital.com>

Hi all. 

I just want to clarify, the Livecode web site indicates that LC is compatible with MacOS 14.x Sonoma, but it does not list 15.x Sequoia. Before I update my OS (which I do NOT allow it to do automatically) I want to be sure about the compatibility. 

Bob S



From ludovic.thebault at laposte.net  Fri Jan 10 13:05:13 2025
From: ludovic.thebault at laposte.net (Ludovic THEBAULT)
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2025 19:05:13 +0100
Subject: MacOS compatibility
In-Reply-To: <C9E70478-EA10-4609-8DC8-BE2808A514A6@iotecdigital.com>
References: <C9E70478-EA10-4609-8DC8-BE2808A514A6@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <D358B769-4A94-4E58-86AF-532F6AF0DAE6@laposte.net>



> Le 10 janv. 2025 à 19:02, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> a écrit :
> 
> Hi all. 
> 
> I just want to clarify, the Livecode web site indicates that LC is compatible with MacOS 14.x Sonoma, but it does not list 15.x Sequoia. Before I update my OS (which I do NOT allow it to do automatically) I want to be sure about the compatibility. 
> 
> Bob S


Hello,

I use Livecode Create DP5 on sequoia without problems.

Ludovic


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Jan 10 14:20:43 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2025 19:20:43 +0000
Subject: MacOS compatibility
In-Reply-To: <D358B769-4A94-4E58-86AF-532F6AF0DAE6@laposte.net>
References: <C9E70478-EA10-4609-8DC8-BE2808A514A6@iotecdigital.com>
 <D358B769-4A94-4E58-86AF-532F6AF0DAE6@laposte.net>
Message-ID: <91C28A17-50BE-47AB-98FC-6A5934A1B0D6@iotecdigital.com>

I’m not using create yet. I’m on 10.0.1 (rc3)

Bob S


> On Jan 10, 2025, at 10:05 AM, Ludovic THEBAULT via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> Le 10 janv. 2025 à 19:02, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> a écrit :
>> 
>> Hi all. 
>> 
>> I just want to clarify, the Livecode web site indicates that LC is compatible with MacOS 14.x Sonoma, but it does not list 15.x Sequoia. Before I update my OS (which I do NOT allow it to do automatically) I want to be sure about the compatibility. 
>> 
>> Bob S
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I use Livecode Create DP5 on sequoia without problems.
> 
> Ludovic
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From martyknappster at gmail.com  Fri Jan 10 14:26:03 2025
From: martyknappster at gmail.com (Marty Knapp)
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2025 11:26:03 -0800
Subject: MacOS compatibility
In-Reply-To: <91C28A17-50BE-47AB-98FC-6A5934A1B0D6@iotecdigital.com>
References: <C9E70478-EA10-4609-8DC8-BE2808A514A6@iotecdigital.com>
 <D358B769-4A94-4E58-86AF-532F6AF0DAE6@laposte.net>
 <91C28A17-50BE-47AB-98FC-6A5934A1B0D6@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <007A0982-766A-4EEE-A840-6401F5D32B02@gmail.com>

Bob, I’m using LC 9.6.13 on Sequoia 15.2 with no issues.

---
Marty Knapp
> On Jan 10, 2025, at 11:20 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I’m not using create yet. I’m on 10.0.1 (rc3)
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Jan 10, 2025, at 10:05 AM, Ludovic THEBAULT via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> Le 10 janv. 2025 à 19:02, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> a écrit :
>>> 
>>> Hi all. 
>>> 
>>> I just want to clarify, the Livecode web site indicates that LC is compatible with MacOS 14.x Sonoma, but it does not list 15.x Sequoia. Before I update my OS (which I do NOT allow it to do automatically) I want to be sure about the compatibility. 
>>> 
>>> Bob S



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Jan 10 14:41:24 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2025 19:41:24 +0000
Subject: MacOS compatibility
In-Reply-To: <007A0982-766A-4EEE-A840-6401F5D32B02@gmail.com>
References: <C9E70478-EA10-4609-8DC8-BE2808A514A6@iotecdigital.com>
 <D358B769-4A94-4E58-86AF-532F6AF0DAE6@laposte.net>
 <91C28A17-50BE-47AB-98FC-6A5934A1B0D6@iotecdigital.com>
 <007A0982-766A-4EEE-A840-6401F5D32B02@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <76140479-804C-4F37-A87F-7BEB926354F2@iotecdigital.com>

Thanks Marty good to know. 

Bob S


> On Jan 10, 2025, at 11:26 AM, Marty Knapp via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Bob, I’m using LC 9.6.13 on Sequoia 15.2 with no issues.
> 
> ---
> Marty Knapp
>> On Jan 10, 2025, at 11:20 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I’m not using create yet. I’m on 10.0.1 (rc3)
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 10, 2025, at 10:05 AM, Ludovic THEBAULT via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Le 10 janv. 2025 à 19:02, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> a écrit :
>>>> 
>>>> Hi all. 
>>>> 
>>>> I just want to clarify, the Livecode web site indicates that LC is compatible with MacOS 14.x Sonoma, but it does not list 15.x Sequoia. Before I update my OS (which I do NOT allow it to do automatically) I want to be sure about the compatibility. 
>>>> 
>>>> Bob S
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From harrison at all-auctions.com  Fri Jan 10 14:50:15 2025
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com)
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2025 14:50:15 -0500
Subject: MacOS compatibility
In-Reply-To: <C9E70478-EA10-4609-8DC8-BE2808A514A6@iotecdigital.com>
References: <C9E70478-EA10-4609-8DC8-BE2808A514A6@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <8C7B5CDD-AEFC-48C5-AADC-F7C24DC39DD0@all-auctions.com>

Hi Bob,

I was just forced into upgrading one of my computers to Sequoia, and it isn’t pretty. I have been
running into issues with Apple’s New Password and the Keychain Access scheme.

I recommend staying one operating system behind if possible. That gives everyone a year to
iron out most of the bugs.  I would stick with Sonoma if I were you at least until Apple announces
the name of the next operating system.

Just my 2 cents.  :-)

Rick

> On Jan 10, 2025, at 1:02 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi all. 
> 
> I just want to clarify, the Livecode web site indicates that LC is compatible with MacOS 14.x Sonoma, but it does not list 15.x Sequoia. Before I update my OS (which I do NOT allow it to do automatically) I want to be sure about the compatibility. 
> 
> Bob S


From paul at researchware.com  Fri Jan 10 14:55:10 2025
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2025 14:55:10 -0500
Subject: MacOS compatibility
In-Reply-To: <76140479-804C-4F37-A87F-7BEB926354F2@iotecdigital.com>
References: <C9E70478-EA10-4609-8DC8-BE2808A514A6@iotecdigital.com>
 <D358B769-4A94-4E58-86AF-532F6AF0DAE6@laposte.net>
 <91C28A17-50BE-47AB-98FC-6A5934A1B0D6@iotecdigital.com>
 <007A0982-766A-4EEE-A840-6401F5D32B02@gmail.com>
 <76140479-804C-4F37-A87F-7BEB926354F2@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <a464b302-b33c-4cd2-a69a-772525ef556c@researchware.com>

Sequoia compatibility is a little more complicated

For example, if you build you app for Intel, Rosetta is not preinstalled 
on Sequoia, and when someone first runs your Intel macOS app, they will 
be prompted to download Rosetta. if they decline - or as happened to us 
- the download was interrupted, it is a real pain to get Rosetta 
installed after that.

If you build you macOS app for Apple Silicon, be aware that not ALL 
libraries, externals, widgets, etc, that are available for LC 9.6.13 or 
10.0.1 are available for Apple Silicon. For example, last I checked the 
XPDF External (vs the PDF Widget) is not available for Apple Silicon. 
There may more things things outside of the core engine that are not 
available for Apple Silicon.

If you use any of these that are not available for Apple Silicon, then 
you will need to make it an Intel macOS app and deal with Rosetta.

I have no idea if Livecode has a list somewhere of what is and is not 
available for an Apple Silicon build of all the bits available in a 
9.6.13 business license. (or any of the different licenses).


On 1/10/2025 2:41 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
> Thanks Marty good to know.
>
> Bob S
>
>
>> On Jan 10, 2025, at 11:26 AM, Marty Knapp via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> Bob, Im using LC 9.6.13 on Sequoia 15.2 with no issues.
>>
>> ---
>> Marty Knapp
>>> On Jan 10, 2025, at 11:20AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Im not using create yet. Im on 10.0.1 (rc3)
>>>
>>> Bob S
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Jan 10, 2025, at 10:05 AM, Ludovic THEBAULT via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Le 10 janv. 2025  19:02, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> a crit :
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi all.
>>>>>
>>>>> I just want to clarify, the Livecode web site indicates that LC is compatible with MacOS 14.x Sonoma, but it does not list 15.x Sequoia. Before I update my OS (which I do NOT allow it to do automatically) I want to be sure about the compatibility.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bob S
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From Bernd.Niggemann at uni-wh.de  Sat Jan 11 07:08:19 2025
From: Bernd.Niggemann at uni-wh.de (Niggemann, Bernd)
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2025 12:08:19 +0000
Subject: [Ann] An accordion widget
Message-ID: <530DE464-546A-4714-85F6-1F580F193A58@uni-wh.de>

Hello all,

I uploaded a slightly updated version of "Accordion" to the Forum.

Code cleanup  and subtle change to appearence (even more "material design")

<https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=39452&p=232973#p232973>
Accordion for LC<https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=39452&p=232973#p232973>
forums.livecode.com<https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=39452&p=232973#p232973>
        [X] <https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=39452&p=232973#p232973>



Kind regards
Bernd

From paul at livecode.org  Sat Jan 11 12:14:15 2025
From: paul at livecode.org (Paul - Livecode)
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2025 12:14:15 -0500
Subject: Help with Linux app built with LC on Mac
In-Reply-To: <e33909ed-342f-4b5a-bd24-26aafb604f6b@harbourhosting.co.uk>
References: <BB79235D-9D97-4071-A619-9757F6C722D4@livecode.org>
 <CAPzQJLKnvHPvcnisB=0r7rTbgK0YWz19UcF_2=2yq9DY72Th4A@mail.gmail.com>
 <ADE1CC07-1DF8-4E30-97AC-2FB84E2BE0A3@livecode.org>
 <e33909ed-342f-4b5a-bd24-26aafb604f6b@harbourhosting.co.uk>
Message-ID: <06FF0245-8D19-4EF1-9021-3A2A2DBC2170@livecode.org>

Hi Martin,

Thank you for your reply, apologies for the delayed response, we have been travelling/sightseeing for a few days so I have not had much time for the computer, a little rain has slowed activities today! :-)

I tried the ldd command, but it just returned ’not a dynamic executable’, I assumed that means Linux does not recognize the file as an app, so I looked up what that meant online and found a little more info, then tried the ‘file’ command (as suggested from the search results) and it returned;

parallels at ubuntu-linux-22-04-02-desktop:~/Documents/Linux x64$ file HelloWorld
HelloWorld: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically lin
ked, interpreter /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.50.2, for GNU/Linux 2.6.32, BuildID[sha1
]=46300372835d048c44a256611604d7f6b179aba5, not stripped

So it seems Ubuntu is recognizing the app, but just not launching it!

Tried the same in Debian:

parallels at debian-gnu-linux-12:~$ ldd '/home/parallels/Documents/Linux Builds/Linux X64/Hello World'
not a dynamic executable
parallels at debian-gnu-linux-12:~$ file '/home/parallels/Documents/Linux Builds/Linux x64/Hello World'
/home/parallels/Documents/Linux Builds/Linux x64/Hello World: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version
1 (SYSV), dynamically linked, interpreter /1ib64/1d-linux-x86-64.50.2, for GNU/Linux 2.6.32, BuildID[sha1]=46300372835d048c44a256611604d7f6b179aba5, not stripped
parallels at debian-gnu-linux-12:~$

Same result.

If I try to launch through Terminal;
parallels at debian-gnu-linux-12:~$ '/home/parallels/Documents/Linux Builds/Linux X64/Hello World'
bash: /home/parallels/Documents/Linux Builds/Linux x64/Hello World: cannot execute binary file: Exec for
mat error

A little more digging and it seems LC  is only building an x86 executable and Parallels installs Linux on ARM64, so they are just not compatible...

Quote:
Ubuntu Exec Format Error
The “Exec format error” in Ubuntu typically indicates that the system cannot recognize the file as a shell script or executable. This can happen due to several reasons, such as a missing shebang (#!) at the start of a script, incorrect file permissions, or running an executable on the wrong architecture. For instance, trying to run an x86 executable on an ARM CPU can cause this error. Adding a shebang at the beginning of your script, ensuring the correct architecture matches, and verifying file permissions can help resolve the issue.

Thank you everyone for your help, I’ve learned a little more about Linux now. I’ll send this back to LC for their input.

Paul

> On Jan 5, 2025, at 07:14, Martin Baxter via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Paul
> 
> 1 Does the application have executable permission on linux?
> 
> 2 If it does, the issue might perhaps be missing dependencies
> check on the linux command line:
> 
> ldd <path to application>
> 
> that will return a list of libraries on which the app depends and the path to them, you would need to install any that are not present
> 
> Martin
> 
> On 02/01/2025 17:17, Paul - Livecode via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hi Tom, thanks for the suggestion. No, there is no browser in the app, it is just a simple app for manipulating and editing specific CSV files. It does use quite a few modern widget controls though, mainly a Polygrid and a few Powerbuttons. Although I also tested a very simple hello world app, and I couldn’t get that to run in Linux under Parallels on Mac M2, both my app and the simple test run fine in Linux under Parallels on an Intel Mac, so there is definitely something odd going on. Not sure if it’s just my setup or if it’s a LC/Parallels/M2 thing.
>> I’m hoping to send it off to LC today, but I’m going to be travelling for a few days after tomorrow, so I may have to follow up with this later next week.
>> Paul
>>> On Jan 1, 2025, at 20:35, Tom Glod via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Paul, does your app have a browser in it ? if so, you need to build the
>>> linux build on a linux box.
>>> Perhaps this is true for some of the other necessary inclusions.
>>> Thats the only experience I've had with working linux builds vs not
>>> working.
>>> Let us know if you figure it out.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Dec 31, 2024 at 6:32 PM Paul - Livecode via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>> 
>>>> I’ve been a long-time list member, but never really felt the need to ask
>>>> for advice until now. I’ve just built a small app using LC 9.6.13 and built
>>>> standalones for Mac, Windows, and Linux, which I may look at distributing
>>>> once all testing is done.
>>>> 
>>>> I’m using a MacBook Pro M2 for development, and I have Parallels for
>>>> testing. The Mac and Windows versions appear to be working fine, but when I
>>>> try to launch the Linux standalone in Ubuntu via Parallels, it won’t even
>>>> launch. When I double-click the app icon, there is no response. The same is
>>>> true if I right-click and choose “Run”. I checked the app and folder
>>>> permissions, and they appear to be OK. The app is on the Linux partition,
>>>> and I have tried both the standard and x64 versions.
>>>> 
>>>> I’ve never used Linux before, apart from on RPi, so I’m not sure if there
>>>> is something that I am missing or doing wrong. Any ideas or advice would be
>>>> gratefully received.
>>>> 
>>>> Thank you, and wishing you all a wonderful New Year.
>>>> 
>>>> Paul
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Tue Jan 14 11:29:04 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2025 16:29:04 +0000
Subject: The Files Function borked? 
Message-ID: <61622D76-541B-41C0-A6B6-18A6A6E15F58@iotecdigital.com>

Hi all. 

In the message box I put: 

put the files of "/Users/bobsneidar/Downloads/“

It returns a short list: 

Forms.zip
temp.db
Forms Generator 8.livecode
Time Zones
File Transfer Error Log.txt
iCalendar Sample with Attachment.ics
.DS_Store
Forms Generator 8 Crash Log.txt
Data Import.livecode
iCalendar Sample.ics
Vendors.livecode
snapshot.png
Old Copier Settings.txt
Paypal Encryption Technique.txt
DictionarySplitter_0_4.livecode
Software.livecode
Splash.livecode
Time Calculator.livecode
test.txt
iCalendar Sample with Attachment.ics.zip
20231213-Check Request.pdf
Refactor ProcessData.txt
tempdatabase.db
Time Zones.xlsx

That is only a fraction of the files in that folder. Whaaa???

Bob S

From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Jan 14 11:39:31 2025
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2025 10:39:31 -0600
Subject: The Files Function borked?
In-Reply-To: <61622D76-541B-41C0-A6B6-18A6A6E15F58@iotecdigital.com>
References: <61622D76-541B-41C0-A6B6-18A6A6E15F58@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <B17D61F0-3308-4B72-814C-0ABFEB2FD16F@sonsothunder.com>

Yeah I'm getting the same thing; if you use the "old" way, it works properly:

put the directory into tOldDir
set the directory to "/Users/bobsneidar/Downloads/"
put the files
set the directory to tOldDir



Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Website: https://www.sonsothunder.com



> On Jan 14, 2025, at 10:29 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi all. 
> 
> In the message box I put: 
> 
> put the files of "/Users/bobsneidar/Downloads/“
> 
> It returns a short list: 
> 
> Forms.zip
> temp.db
> Forms Generator 8.livecode
> Time Zones
> File Transfer Error Log.txt
> iCalendar Sample with Attachment.ics
> .DS_Store
> Forms Generator 8 Crash Log.txt
> Data Import.livecode
> iCalendar Sample.ics
> Vendors.livecode
> snapshot.png
> Old Copier Settings.txt
> Paypal Encryption Technique.txt
> DictionarySplitter_0_4.livecode
> Software.livecode
> Splash.livecode
> Time Calculator.livecode
> test.txt
> iCalendar Sample with Attachment.ics.zip
> 20231213-Check Request.pdf
> Refactor ProcessData.txt
> tempdatabase.db
> Time Zones.xlsx
> 
> That is only a fraction of the files in that folder. Whaaa???
> 
> Bob S
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Tue Jan 14 11:56:02 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2025 16:56:02 +0000
Subject: The Files Function borked?
In-Reply-To: <DA04979F-A61B-46FD-A90F-30E30BF9BD25@iotecdigital.com>
References: <61622D76-541B-41C0-A6B6-18A6A6E15F58@iotecdigital.com>
 <B17D61F0-3308-4B72-814C-0ABFEB2FD16F@sonsothunder.com>
 <DA04979F-A61B-46FD-A90F-30E30BF9BD25@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <461B81FC-317F-410B-A5D1-78F65E23F351@iotecdigital.com>

Interestingly, the function form works as well.

Bob S


On Jan 14, 2025, at 8:48 AM, Bob Sneidar <bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com> wrote:

Thanks for checking. That is a pretty big bug. I will submit a bug report shortly.

Bob S


On Jan 14, 2025, at 8:39 AM, Ken Ray <kray at sonsothunder.com> wrote:

You don't often get email from kray at sonsothunder.com. Learn why this is important<https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification>
Yeah I'm getting the same thing; if you use the "old" way, it works properly:

put the directory into tOldDir
set the directory to "/Users/bobsneidar/Downloads/"
put the files
set the directory to tOldDir



Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Website: https://www.sonsothunder.com



On Jan 14, 2025, at 10:29 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

Hi all.

In the message box I put:

put the files of "/Users/bobsneidar/Downloads/“

It returns a short list:

Forms.zip
temp.db
Forms Generator 8.livecode
Time Zones
File Transfer Error Log.txt
iCalendar Sample with Attachment.ics
.DS_Store
Forms Generator 8 Crash Log.txt
Data Import.livecode
iCalendar Sample.ics
Vendors.livecode
snapshot.png
Old Copier Settings.txt
Paypal Encryption Technique.txt
DictionarySplitter_0_4.livecode
Software.livecode
Splash.livecode
Time Calculator.livecode
test.txt
iCalendar Sample with Attachment.ics.zip
20231213-Check Request.pdf
Refactor ProcessData.txt
tempdatabase.db
Time Zones.xlsx

That is only a fraction of the files in that folder. Whaaa???

Bob S
_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Tue Jan 14 13:16:27 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2025 18:16:27 +0000
Subject: The Files Function borked?
In-Reply-To: <461B81FC-317F-410B-A5D1-78F65E23F351@iotecdigital.com>
References: <61622D76-541B-41C0-A6B6-18A6A6E15F58@iotecdigital.com>
 <B17D61F0-3308-4B72-814C-0ABFEB2FD16F@sonsothunder.com>
 <DA04979F-A61B-46FD-A90F-30E30BF9BD25@iotecdigital.com>
 <461B81FC-317F-410B-A5D1-78F65E23F351@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <5619D0BB-FCBF-4C11-B363-76D4DC170E8D@iotecdigital.com>

What would really be handy is a way to get the detailed file information for a single file. There is a use case where there may be many thousands of files in a directory, and enumerating the detailed files then filtering for the one you want seems onerous and probably time consuming. 

I throught about rolling my own, but then when doing this for Windows and using the shell command I keep getting “file not found.” 

answer file "Select file"  put it into tFileName
put "dir /T:W "  & quote & tFileName & quote into tCmd
put shell(tCmd)

I doubt it but is there a command in Livecode to get the mod date of a file? 

Bob S


> On Jan 14, 2025, at 8:56 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Interestingly, the function form works as well.
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
> On Jan 14, 2025, at 8:48 AM, Bob Sneidar <bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com> wrote:
> 
> Thanks for checking. That is a pretty big bug. I will submit a bug report shortly.
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 


From paul at livecode.org  Tue Jan 14 23:52:18 2025
From: paul at livecode.org (Paul - Livecode)
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2025 23:52:18 -0500
Subject: Help with Linux app built with LC on Mac
In-Reply-To: <06FF0245-8D19-4EF1-9021-3A2A2DBC2170@livecode.org>
References: <BB79235D-9D97-4071-A619-9757F6C722D4@livecode.org>
 <CAPzQJLKnvHPvcnisB=0r7rTbgK0YWz19UcF_2=2yq9DY72Th4A@mail.gmail.com>
 <ADE1CC07-1DF8-4E30-97AC-2FB84E2BE0A3@livecode.org>
 <e33909ed-342f-4b5a-bd24-26aafb604f6b@harbourhosting.co.uk>
 <06FF0245-8D19-4EF1-9021-3A2A2DBC2170@livecode.org>
Message-ID: <DEF1B2A8-148B-4450-8DA0-D6D3C0773650@livecode.org>


Just a quick follow up for anyone following or interested in this issue. Apparently the problem is caused by Parallels on Apple M series devices are running Linux on an ARM platform, so there is no emulator for the x86 commands, it is just a processor compatibility issue. Linux on ARM is a relatively new concept, it may improve in the future, but who knows?
There’s no easy answer (for me at least), I tried installing some suggested ARM compatibility software, but either my lack of understanding of Linux, or their inability to rum LC standalones left me with no resolution, so it’s back to testing on an older Intel Mac with Parallels and Linux for now.

Paul

From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Wed Jan 15 11:12:20 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2025 16:12:20 +0000
Subject: [Ann] An accordion widget
In-Reply-To: <530DE464-546A-4714-85F6-1F580F193A58@uni-wh.de>
References: <530DE464-546A-4714-85F6-1F580F193A58@uni-wh.de>
Message-ID: <09AE11FB-3D2E-4D09-A268-782845C0004A@iotecdigital.com>

Very nice piece of work. Like the datagrid, it shows what can be done with native LC controls and good ingenuity. 

Bob S


> On Jan 11, 2025, at 4:08 AM, Niggemann, Bernd via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> I uploaded a slightly updated version of "Accordion" to the Forum.
> 
> Code cleanup  and subtle change to appearence (even more "material design")
> 
> <https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=39452&p=232973#p232973>
> Accordion for LC<https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=39452&p=232973#p232973>
> forums.livecode.com<https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=39452&p=232973#p232973>
>        [X] <https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=39452&p=232973#p232973>
> 
> 
> 
> Kind regards
> Bernd
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From Bernd.Niggemann at uni-wh.de  Wed Jan 15 13:21:45 2025
From: Bernd.Niggemann at uni-wh.de (Niggemann, Bernd)
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2025 18:21:45 +0000
Subject: [Ann] An accordion widget
Message-ID: <EB9E5A8E-D5B0-4585-A432-DBE27E1E669B@uni-wh.de>

Bob Sneidar via use-livecode<https://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=use-livecode at lists.runrev.com&q=from:%22Bob+Sneidar+via+use%5C-livecode%22> Wed, 15 Jan 2025 08:14:32 -0800<https://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=use-livecode at lists.runrev.com&q=date:20250115>

Very nice piece of work. Like the datagrid, it shows what can be done with
native LC controls and good ingenuity.

Bob S


> On Jan 11, 2025, at 4:08 AM, Niggemann, Bernd via use-livecode
> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> Hello all,
>
> I uploaded a slightly updated version of "Accordion" to the Forum.
>
> Code cleanup  and subtle change to appearence (even more "material design")
>
> <https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=39452&p=232973#p232973>


Thank you Bob for your kind words.

Kind regards
Bernd

From curry at pair.com  Wed Jan 15 15:13:25 2025
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2025 15:13:25 -0500
Subject: The Files Function borked?
In-Reply-To: <5619D0BB-FCBF-4C11-B363-76D4DC170E8D@iotecdigital.com>
References: <5619D0BB-FCBF-4C11-B363-76D4DC170E8D@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <2658d163-391e-459a-a9e3-3212d06d9620@pair.com>

Bob:

 > I keep getting file not found.

 > answer file "Select file"
 > put it into tFileName
 > put "dir /T:W "  & quote & tFileName & quote into tCmd
 > put shell(tCmd)

Whaaa???

Fix your /'s!

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
"PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
https://livecodeconsulting.com/

More news after recuperating a bit....


From mkoob at rogers.com  Wed Jan 15 15:27:17 2025
From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob)
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2025 15:27:17 -0500
Subject: Help with Linux app built with LC on Mac
In-Reply-To: <DEF1B2A8-148B-4450-8DA0-D6D3C0773650@livecode.org>
References: <BB79235D-9D97-4071-A619-9757F6C722D4@livecode.org>
 <CAPzQJLKnvHPvcnisB=0r7rTbgK0YWz19UcF_2=2yq9DY72Th4A@mail.gmail.com>
 <ADE1CC07-1DF8-4E30-97AC-2FB84E2BE0A3@livecode.org>
 <e33909ed-342f-4b5a-bd24-26aafb604f6b@harbourhosting.co.uk>
 <06FF0245-8D19-4EF1-9021-3A2A2DBC2170@livecode.org>
 <DEF1B2A8-148B-4450-8DA0-D6D3C0773650@livecode.org>
Message-ID: <F56076AB-7A5A-4762-86EA-766B9319038C@rogers.com>

Hi Paul

I wonder if you would have a better experience using Docker https://www.docker.com/ to set up a container running Linux on your Mac to do your testing.

I am no expert on Docker and less so on Linux.  I have used Docker to run a web service locally on my Mac to test cmi5 packages for conformance to the standard. The web service is called CATAPULT.  A company called Rustici did all the work and created the image that builds the container and launches the webservice.  On my end I just had to download it, install it and do some configuration (This was the hardest part for me — it involved a few rounds of trial and error but that is more on me as I was hurrying and typing first and reading documentation later.)

Once it was installed I just had to issue a few terminal commands to build the container and then launch the CATAPULT web service  that is used to test cmi5 documents for conformance to the cmi5 standard. Then I accessed the web service using my desktop browser to go to a localhost address.

So that is not exactly what you want to do but I think it can be done.

Here is a blog article on the subject of running Linux apps on a Mac using Docker.
https://blog.alexellis.io/linux-desktop-on-mac/

It was written in 2016 and was using El Capitan so will be out of date — for one thing it wouldn’t be taking into account Apple Silicon CPUs since the first Mac with the M1 was in 2013.  But there is a hub where you can find up to date prebuilt images that are shared with the Docker community  https://hub.docker.com/ .  This includes a whole range of uses  including running Linux Distributions on your Mac (or Windows) machine.


I have not had a need to text an LiveCode app on Linux so I have not used one for this purpose but perhaps it may work better than Parallels.

Anyway just throwing that out there.  I don’t know if it would resolve the x86 vs ARM issue but I see when narrowing down the search I was able to choose the OS and Architecture from the list of filters.  That would imply to me it is emulating the architecture but as I said I only use one ready made image so I don’t know the ins and outs of this.  I am curious though if that is the case.


FILTERS

Trusted content
	✔︎	Docker Official Image
		Verified Publisher
		Sponsored OSS

Operating Systems
	✔︎	Linux
		Windows

Architectures
		ARM
		ARM 64
		IBM POWER
		PowerPC 64 LE
		IBM Z
	✔︎	x86
		x86-64


In the results of that search there were Linux distributions, for example Debian and Ubuntu.

Debian

https://hub.docker.com/_/debian

Ubuntu

https://hub.docker.com/_/ubuntu


Let me know if this is what you were looking for.

Martin Koob

> On Jan 14, 2025, at 11:52 PM, Paul - Livecode via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> 

> 

> Just a quick follow up for anyone following or interested in this issue. Apparently the problem is caused by Parallels on Apple M series devices are running Linux on an ARM platform, so there is no emulator for the x86 commands, it is just a processor compatibility issue. Linux on ARM is a relatively new concept, it may improve in the future, but who knows?

> There’s no easy answer (for me at least), I tried installing some suggested ARM compatibility software, but either my lack of understanding of Linux, or their inability to rum LC standalones left me with no resolution, so it’s back to testing on an older Intel Mac with Parallels and Linux for now.

> 

> Paul

> _______________________________________________

> use-livecode mailing list

> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com

> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:

> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From jbv at souslelogo.com  Sat Jan 18 03:49:17 2025
From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com)
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2025 03:49:17 -0500
Subject: Azure or AWS ?
Message-ID: <c98282b5b52d2ebacf20b17509872800@souslelogo.com>

Hi list,

I have a small LC desktop app that sends requests via curl
to ollama and some AI models. Everything runs fine on my Mac
and now I would like to try to move it to the cloud, but I'm
not sure which platform to choose.
I have read a few blogs like this one :
https://www.shiksha.com/online-courses/articles/aws-vs-azure/
but still can't make my mind...
Even in the cloud, the app will have very low trafic, the main
reason behing moving to the cloud is that some models are too
"big" to fit on my Mac.
Furthermore, I am not sure of the way both platforms charge :
one is per minute and the other per hour, but does it mean
that they keep charging as long as an account exists, or only
when some requests and computations take place ?

Does anyone have any experience on this matter ?
Thank you in advance.

jbv


From curry at pair.com  Sat Jan 18 22:54:14 2025
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2025 22:54:14 -0500
Subject: Low-code dev tools checklist, Red Flags, LC Options to consider
Message-ID: <d8846a04-29fe-4dda-9698-3d6dd4fb0709@pair.com>

Low-code dev tools:

- free demo version is standard.
- crowded market already.
- user pricing bubble will face cooling inflation/novelty.
- belated adoption trend, not brand new technology.
- middle class business growth will favor savvy pricing/terms.

I am still recuperating; not hunting/testing yet.
Not in a rush. When I do....

My Low-code checklist:

- free demo version, no time limit.
- reliable, stable, Low-code done right.
- savvy pricing/terms for versatile projects and clients.
- smart privacy and security options.
- very low hassle and busywork, for myself or clients.
- user pricing targeting affordable end user's pricing.
- welcoming diverse ideas and input, with honest answers.
- full well-thought FAQ.

And when using Self-hosted or local data:

- unlimited users, or very cheap/versatile.
- easy no tracking and enhanced privacy/security options.
- no app kill switch.

Red Flags/Things to avoid:

- app kill switch.
- stubborn tracking requirements.
- audits, busywork, paperwork, snooping, pseudo bureaucracy.
- invalidates other EULAs prematurely.
- tedious user management or data busywork.
- naive or hostile groupthink, favoritism, contradictions.

LC Options to consider:

- LiveCode Create + tweaks for better pricing/terms/privacy.
- LiveCode Community/OpenXTalk + other Low-code dev tool.

Not interested in:

- webinars, live Q&A, videos, inefficient processes.
- frequent 'one time only/last chance' promotions.

Glad to see Low-code dev tools adoption trend - it's about time!
And ... Glad to finally post my follow-up thoughts; Delayed by illness.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
"PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
https://livecodeconsulting.com/

More news after recuperating a bit....


From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Mon Jan 20 10:32:18 2025
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2025 10:32:18 -0500
Subject: Low-code dev tools checklist, Red Flags, LC Options to consider
In-Reply-To: <d8846a04-29fe-4dda-9698-3d6dd4fb0709@pair.com>
References: <d8846a04-29fe-4dda-9698-3d6dd4fb0709@pair.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycOQZ-NzdjqSfMqFCqr9BD1rprqU1HGh-635ob9=bAqzLQ@mail.gmail.com>

in case anyone cares, another low code tool, qodly, came out of beta, and
was released to the public with 1.0.0, today.
https://qodly.com

On Sat, Jan 18, 2025 at 10:55 PM Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Low-code dev tools:
>
> - free demo version is standard.
> - crowded market already.
> - user pricing bubble will face cooling inflation/novelty.
> - belated adoption trend, not brand new technology.
> - middle class business growth will favor savvy pricing/terms.
>
> I am still recuperating; not hunting/testing yet.
> Not in a rush. When I do....
>
> My Low-code checklist:
>
> - free demo version, no time limit.
> - reliable, stable, Low-code done right.
> - savvy pricing/terms for versatile projects and clients.
> - smart privacy and security options.
> - very low hassle and busywork, for myself or clients.
> - user pricing targeting affordable end user's pricing.
> - welcoming diverse ideas and input, with honest answers.
> - full well-thought FAQ.
>
> And when using Self-hosted or local data:
>
> - unlimited users, or very cheap/versatile.
> - easy no tracking and enhanced privacy/security options.
> - no app kill switch.
>
> Red Flags/Things to avoid:
>
> - app kill switch.
> - stubborn tracking requirements.
> - audits, busywork, paperwork, snooping, pseudo bureaucracy.
> - invalidates other EULAs prematurely.
> - tedious user management or data busywork.
> - naive or hostile groupthink, favoritism, contradictions.
>
> LC Options to consider:
>
> - LiveCode Create + tweaks for better pricing/terms/privacy.
> - LiveCode Community/OpenXTalk + other Low-code dev tool.
>
> Not interested in:
>
> - webinars, live Q&A, videos, inefficient processes.
> - frequent 'one time only/last chance' promotions.
>
> Glad to see Low-code dev tools adoption trend - it's about time!
> And ... Glad to finally post my follow-up thoughts; Delayed by illness.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Curry Kenworthy
>
> Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
> "PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
> https://livecodeconsulting.com/
>
> More news after recuperating a bit....
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Tue Jan 21 11:04:36 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2025 16:04:36 +0000
Subject: Azure or AWS ?
In-Reply-To: <c98282b5b52d2ebacf20b17509872800@souslelogo.com>
References: <c98282b5b52d2ebacf20b17509872800@souslelogo.com>
Message-ID: <97242384-F180-4417-B2C4-53A2CE41DFD8@iotecdigital.com>

Just by way of reason, no business model would charge by the minute for uptime. 

Bob S


> On Jan 18, 2025, at 12:49 AM, jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi list,
> 
> I have a small LC desktop app that sends requests via curl
> to ollama and some AI models. Everything runs fine on my Mac
> and now I would like to try to move it to the cloud, but I'm
> not sure which platform to choose.
> I have read a few blogs like this one :
> https://www.shiksha.com/online-courses/articles/aws-vs-azure/
> but still can't make my mind...
> Even in the cloud, the app will have very low trafic, the main
> reason behing moving to the cloud is that some models are too
> "big" to fit on my Mac.
> Furthermore, I am not sure of the way both platforms charge :
> one is per minute and the other per hour, but does it mean
> that they keep charging as long as an account exists, or only
> when some requests and computations take place ?
> 
> Does anyone have any experience on this matter ?
> Thank you in advance.
> 
> jbv
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From harrison at all-auctions.com  Tue Jan 21 12:01:06 2025
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com)
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2025 12:01:06 -0500
Subject: Azure or AWS ?
In-Reply-To: <97242384-F180-4417-B2C4-53A2CE41DFD8@iotecdigital.com>
References: <c98282b5b52d2ebacf20b17509872800@souslelogo.com>
 <97242384-F180-4417-B2C4-53A2CE41DFD8@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <BCD01644-22D6-47A9-B19C-DCBF00532B50@all-auctions.com>

Hi Bob,

In the old days of punch cards, the universities would charge
for the number of seconds it took for your computer program
to run! When many people finally had their own personal computers
that whole idea went out the window.

Just my 2 cents. ;-)

Rick

> On Jan 21, 2025, at 11:04 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Just by way of reason, no business model would charge by the minute for uptime. 
> 
> Bob S


From jmac at consensustech.com  Tue Jan 21 13:15:00 2025
From: jmac at consensustech.com (Jim At Consensus)
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2025 10:15:00 -0800
Subject: Azure or AWS ?
In-Reply-To: <BCD01644-22D6-47A9-B19C-DCBF00532B50@all-auctions.com>
References: <BCD01644-22D6-47A9-B19C-DCBF00532B50@all-auctions.com>
Message-ID: <7BC41224-0F6D-4F2F-820F-DA3202A34D55@consensustech.com>

I remember those days (charge by runtime). We blew the civil engineering department’s annual computer budget on one poorly conceived analysis run. Ooops.
~Jim

Sent from Jim's iPhone
Please excuse brevity, typos and errors

> On Jan 21, 2025, at 9:02 AM, harrison--- via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Bob,
> 
> In the old days of punch cards, the universities would charge
> for the number of seconds it took for your computer program
> to run! When many people finally had their own personal computers
> that whole idea went out the window.
> 
> Just my 2 cents. ;-)
> 
> Rick
> 
>> On Jan 21, 2025, at 11:04 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Just by way of reason, no business model would charge by the minute for uptime.
>> 
>> Bob S
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

From mark at canelasoftware.com  Wed Jan 22 17:11:25 2025
From: mark at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2025 14:11:25 -0800
Subject: Azure or AWS ?
In-Reply-To: <c98282b5b52d2ebacf20b17509872800@souslelogo.com>
References: <c98282b5b52d2ebacf20b17509872800@souslelogo.com>
Message-ID: <F3B8C2F9-AC4C-4AFA-AF90-4BD821FF5BE5@canelasoftware.com>

Hi JBV,

We use Azure and Digital Ocean data centers.

As most of these services go, they charge by time. They will charge you as long as they are yours. That means you can turn them off and still be charged. You have to destroy your droplet or server to stop billing.

You can buy time from Azure for dormant servers (usually late at night or early morning). This may save you some money. It comes with added complexity as you cannot access them until Microsoft deems them ready for use.


Best regards,
Mark Talluto

appli.io <https://appli.io/>
livecloud.io <https://livecloud.io/>
nursenotes.net <https://nursenotes.net/>
canelasoftware.com <https://www.canelasoftware.com/>



> On Jan 18, 2025, at 12:49 AM, jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi list,
> 
> I have a small LC desktop app that sends requests via curl
> to ollama and some AI models. Everything runs fine on my Mac
> and now I would like to try to move it to the cloud, but I'm
> not sure which platform to choose.
> I have read a few blogs like this one :
> https://www.shiksha.com/online-courses/articles/aws-vs-azure/
> but still can't make my mind...
> Even in the cloud, the app will have very low trafic, the main
> reason behing moving to the cloud is that some models are too
> "big" to fit on my Mac.
> Furthermore, I am not sure of the way both platforms charge :
> one is per minute and the other per hour, but does it mean
> that they keep charging as long as an account exists, or only
> when some requests and computations take place ?
> 
> Does anyone have any experience on this matter ?
> Thank you in advance.
> 
> jbv
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From tom at makeshyft.com  Wed Jan 22 19:18:35 2025
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2025 19:18:35 -0500
Subject: Azure or AWS ?
In-Reply-To: <F3B8C2F9-AC4C-4AFA-AF90-4BD821FF5BE5@canelasoftware.com>
References: <c98282b5b52d2ebacf20b17509872800@souslelogo.com>
 <F3B8C2F9-AC4C-4AFA-AF90-4BD821FF5BE5@canelasoftware.com>
Message-ID: <CAPzQJL+PtV2iyu=ZfbzopzeAB2ZPEYCeWSNQ7cA_FmdqnvJ_qg@mail.gmail.com>

Appwrite.io is also an option, I have an implementation forauth, crud, and
object storage.
I like it because its Open source, cloud or self host, and u can migrate
between the two with click of button. (ish?)
Venture backed with lots of devs working on it.

On Wed, Jan 22, 2025 at 5:13 PM Mark Talluto via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi JBV,
>
> We use Azure and Digital Ocean data centers.
>
> As most of these services go, they charge by time. They will charge you as
> long as they are yours. That means you can turn them off and still be
> charged. You have to destroy your droplet or server to stop billing.
>
> You can buy time from Azure for dormant servers (usually late at night or
> early morning). This may save you some money. It comes with added
> complexity as you cannot access them until Microsoft deems them ready for
> use.
>
>
> Best regards,
> Mark Talluto
>
> appli.io <https://appli.io/>
> livecloud.io <https://livecloud.io/>
> nursenotes.net <https://nursenotes.net/>
> canelasoftware.com <https://www.canelasoftware.com/>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 18, 2025, at 12:49 AM, jbv via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi list,
> >
> > I have a small LC desktop app that sends requests via curl
> > to ollama and some AI models. Everything runs fine on my Mac
> > and now I would like to try to move it to the cloud, but I'm
> > not sure which platform to choose.
> > I have read a few blogs like this one :
> > https://www.shiksha.com/online-courses/articles/aws-vs-azure/
> > but still can't make my mind...
> > Even in the cloud, the app will have very low trafic, the main
> > reason behing moving to the cloud is that some models are too
> > "big" to fit on my Mac.
> > Furthermore, I am not sure of the way both platforms charge :
> > one is per minute and the other per hour, but does it mean
> > that they keep charging as long as an account exists, or only
> > when some requests and computations take place ?
> >
> > Does anyone have any experience on this matter ?
> > Thank you in advance.
> >
> > jbv
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From tom at makeshyft.com  Wed Jan 22 19:24:20 2025
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2025 19:24:20 -0500
Subject: Azure or AWS ?
In-Reply-To: <CAPzQJL+PtV2iyu=ZfbzopzeAB2ZPEYCeWSNQ7cA_FmdqnvJ_qg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c98282b5b52d2ebacf20b17509872800@souslelogo.com>
 <F3B8C2F9-AC4C-4AFA-AF90-4BD821FF5BE5@canelasoftware.com>
 <CAPzQJL+PtV2iyu=ZfbzopzeAB2ZPEYCeWSNQ7cA_FmdqnvJ_qg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPzQJLLQSRO98vTe2Rb_abUA=cJDzQpgHejrTt8bFHKRpu7ujQ@mail.gmail.com>

Though Appwrite is something you would put on top of aws or azure, or
digital ocean. But they also have very affortable managed cloud service
that saves u from doing the provisioning .......
So its not exactly the answer to your question, but appwrite is amazing and
i tell everyone about it.

On Wed, Jan 22, 2025 at 7:18 PM Tom Glod <tom at makeshyft.com> wrote:

> Appwrite.io is also an option, I have an implementation forauth, crud, and
> object storage.
> I like it because its Open source, cloud or self host, and u can migrate
> between the two with click of button. (ish?)
> Venture backed with lots of devs working on it.
>
> On Wed, Jan 22, 2025 at 5:13 PM Mark Talluto via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi JBV,
>>
>> We use Azure and Digital Ocean data centers.
>>
>> As most of these services go, they charge by time. They will charge you
>> as long as they are yours. That means you can turn them off and still be
>> charged. You have to destroy your droplet or server to stop billing.
>>
>> You can buy time from Azure for dormant servers (usually late at night or
>> early morning). This may save you some money. It comes with added
>> complexity as you cannot access them until Microsoft deems them ready for
>> use.
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Mark Talluto
>>
>> appli.io <https://appli.io/>
>> livecloud.io <https://livecloud.io/>
>> nursenotes.net <https://nursenotes.net/>
>> canelasoftware.com <https://www.canelasoftware.com/>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Jan 18, 2025, at 12:49 AM, jbv via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi list,
>> >
>> > I have a small LC desktop app that sends requests via curl
>> > to ollama and some AI models. Everything runs fine on my Mac
>> > and now I would like to try to move it to the cloud, but I'm
>> > not sure which platform to choose.
>> > I have read a few blogs like this one :
>> > https://www.shiksha.com/online-courses/articles/aws-vs-azure/
>> > but still can't make my mind...
>> > Even in the cloud, the app will have very low trafic, the main
>> > reason behing moving to the cloud is that some models are too
>> > "big" to fit on my Mac.
>> > Furthermore, I am not sure of the way both platforms charge :
>> > one is per minute and the other per hour, but does it mean
>> > that they keep charging as long as an account exists, or only
>> > when some requests and computations take place ?
>> >
>> > Does anyone have any experience on this matter ?
>> > Thank you in advance.
>> >
>> > jbv
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > use-livecode mailing list
>> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>

From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Wed Jan 22 19:37:47 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2025 00:37:47 +0000
Subject: Low-code dev tools checklist, Red Flags, LC Options to consider
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycOQZ-NzdjqSfMqFCqr9BD1rprqU1HGh-635ob9=bAqzLQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d8846a04-29fe-4dda-9698-3d6dd4fb0709@pair.com>
 <CADCoycOQZ-NzdjqSfMqFCqr9BD1rprqU1HGh-635ob9=bAqzLQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C53AF3FE-4C9B-434B-B150-81434D017950@iotecdigital.com>

Looks like javascript under the hood (of course it does.)

Bob S


On Jan 20, 2025, at 7:32 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

in case anyone cares, another low code tool, qodly, came out of beta, and
was released to the public with 1.0.0, today.
https://qodly.com<https://qodly.com/>


From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Thu Jan 23 09:01:30 2025
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2025 09:01:30 -0500
Subject: Low-code dev tools checklist, Red Flags, LC Options to consider
In-Reply-To: <C53AF3FE-4C9B-434B-B150-81434D017950@iotecdigital.com>
References: <d8846a04-29fe-4dda-9698-3d6dd4fb0709@pair.com>
 <CADCoycOQZ-NzdjqSfMqFCqr9BD1rprqU1HGh-635ob9=bAqzLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <C53AF3FE-4C9B-434B-B150-81434D017950@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycPBEo07bVBpadRRZOzF8wcjtCw5Urv6LMGkBe4YyyNtJQ@mail.gmail.com>

correct, the client framework is running js. the client side of your
project is low/no, so many of the actions you are invoking are inserted to
the widget via a menu. if the widget property editor does not get you what
you want, you are writing CSS.
the server code (where a lot of the action is taking place) is written in
an updated version of 4d's newer ORDA language.
if you remember 4d, it is procedural. the newer syntax is OO, with an ORM.
qodly takes that paradigm a step further and makes the syntax more
modern/JS'y.

From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu Jan 23 11:11:17 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2025 16:11:17 +0000
Subject: Low-code dev tools checklist, Red Flags, LC Options to consider
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycPBEo07bVBpadRRZOzF8wcjtCw5Urv6LMGkBe4YyyNtJQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d8846a04-29fe-4dda-9698-3d6dd4fb0709@pair.com>
 <CADCoycOQZ-NzdjqSfMqFCqr9BD1rprqU1HGh-635ob9=bAqzLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <C53AF3FE-4C9B-434B-B150-81434D017950@iotecdigital.com>
 <CADCoycPBEo07bVBpadRRZOzF8wcjtCw5Urv6LMGkBe4YyyNtJQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AD908E3F-4555-40B0-A614-C77464460E7C@iotecdigital.com>

Yeah we used to have 4th Dimension at a place I worked at many, MANY years ago. The whole flow chart paradigm kinda lost me. 

Bob S


> On Jan 23, 2025, at 6:01 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> correct, the client framework is running js. the client side of your
> project is low/no, so many of the actions you are invoking are inserted to
> the widget via a menu. if the widget property editor does not get you what
> you want, you are writing CSS.
> the server code (where a lot of the action is taking place) is written in
> an updated version of 4d's newer ORDA language.
> if you remember 4d, it is procedural. the newer syntax is OO, with an ORM.
> qodly takes that paradigm a step further and makes the syntax more
> modern/JS'y.
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From jbv at souslelogo.com  Thu Jan 23 12:44:35 2025
From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com)
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2025 12:44:35 -0500
Subject: Azure or AWS ?
In-Reply-To: <CAPzQJL+PtV2iyu=ZfbzopzeAB2ZPEYCeWSNQ7cA_FmdqnvJ_qg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c98282b5b52d2ebacf20b17509872800@souslelogo.com>
 <F3B8C2F9-AC4C-4AFA-AF90-4BD821FF5BE5@canelasoftware.com>
 <CAPzQJL+PtV2iyu=ZfbzopzeAB2ZPEYCeWSNQ7cA_FmdqnvJ_qg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c62a8e4cfcfb672c22607986b4698a3f@souslelogo.com>

For the record, I tried to register at Azure to test their free offer,
but the registration includes a tel.# validation that doesn't work...
So I tried AWS for their free offer, registration went fine, but their
free offer doesn't include GPU usage.
So now I am trying Google Colab.

Regarding Appwrite.io, I might be wrong, but I didn't see any GPU
possibilities in their offers...


Le 2025-01-22 19:18, Tom Glod via use-livecode a crit :
> Appwrite.io is also an option, I have an implementation forauth, crud, 
> and
> object storage.
> I like it because its Open source, cloud or self host, and u can 
> migrate
> between the two with click of button. (ish?)
> Venture backed with lots of devs working on it.
> 


From jbv at souslelogo.com  Thu Jan 23 12:46:41 2025
From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com)
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2025 12:46:41 -0500
Subject: LC and embedding
Message-ID: <638518fad3ca81e0d23b09fabc4fd661@souslelogo.com>

Hi again list,

Has anyone tried to do text embedding from LC on
a CPU-only device ?
Thank you in advance.

jbv


From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Thu Jan 23 15:07:16 2025
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2025 15:07:16 -0500
Subject: Low-code dev tools checklist, Red Flags, LC Options to consider
In-Reply-To: <AD908E3F-4555-40B0-A614-C77464460E7C@iotecdigital.com>
References: <d8846a04-29fe-4dda-9698-3d6dd4fb0709@pair.com>
 <CADCoycOQZ-NzdjqSfMqFCqr9BD1rprqU1HGh-635ob9=bAqzLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <C53AF3FE-4C9B-434B-B150-81434D017950@iotecdigital.com>
 <CADCoycPBEo07bVBpadRRZOzF8wcjtCw5Urv6LMGkBe4YyyNtJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <AD908E3F-4555-40B0-A614-C77464460E7C@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycPsnzexbdTa=E_e7e8FWvYh48AZt1MueCQ1L2jRyJ=_5w@mail.gmail.com>

dude, 4d hasn't used flowcharts since around 1992, and at that time, it was
optional (instead of coding methods like you would usually expect)
you are O-L-D.

On Thu, Jan 23, 2025 at 11:12 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Yeah we used to have 4th Dimension at a place I worked at many, MANY years
> ago. The whole flow chart paradigm kinda lost me.
>
> Bob S
>
>
> > On Jan 23, 2025, at 6:01 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > correct, the client framework is running js. the client side of your
> > project is low/no, so many of the actions you are invoking are inserted
> to
> > the widget via a menu. if the widget property editor does not get you
> what
> > you want, you are writing CSS.
> > the server code (where a lot of the action is taking place) is written in
> > an updated version of 4d's newer ORDA language.
> > if you remember 4d, it is procedural. the newer syntax is OO, with an
> ORM.
> > qodly takes that paradigm a step further and makes the syntax more
> > modern/JS'y.
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Thu Jan 23 15:11:45 2025
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2025 15:11:45 -0500
Subject: Low-code dev tools checklist, Red Flags, LC Options to consider
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycPsnzexbdTa=E_e7e8FWvYh48AZt1MueCQ1L2jRyJ=_5w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d8846a04-29fe-4dda-9698-3d6dd4fb0709@pair.com>
 <CADCoycOQZ-NzdjqSfMqFCqr9BD1rprqU1HGh-635ob9=bAqzLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <C53AF3FE-4C9B-434B-B150-81434D017950@iotecdigital.com>
 <CADCoycPBEo07bVBpadRRZOzF8wcjtCw5Urv6LMGkBe4YyyNtJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <AD908E3F-4555-40B0-A614-C77464460E7C@iotecdigital.com>
 <CADCoycPsnzexbdTa=E_e7e8FWvYh48AZt1MueCQ1L2jRyJ=_5w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycMim0SXeFcEeB0xcHZVnd+3e1PU9jZtPdOYjACsOX=aGQ@mail.gmail.com>

i mean, i'm kinda old, which is how i remember the dates.
that, and my first job out of B-school was a combination
hypercard/supercard/4d nerd.
come to think of it, i think 4dv2 was 1990, and, at that time, flowcharts
were optional.

On Thu, Jan 23, 2025 at 3:07 PM Mike Kerner <MikeKerner at roadrunner.com>
wrote:

> dude, 4d hasn't used flowcharts since around 1992, and at that time, it
> was optional (instead of coding methods like you would usually expect)
> you are O-L-D.
>
> On Thu, Jan 23, 2025 at 11:12 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> Yeah we used to have 4th Dimension at a place I worked at many, MANY
>> years ago. The whole flow chart paradigm kinda lost me.
>>
>> Bob S
>>
>>
>> > On Jan 23, 2025, at 6:01 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > correct, the client framework is running js. the client side of your
>> > project is low/no, so many of the actions you are invoking are inserted
>> to
>> > the widget via a menu. if the widget property editor does not get you
>> what
>> > you want, you are writing CSS.
>> > the server code (where a lot of the action is taking place) is written
>> in
>> > an updated version of 4d's newer ORDA language.
>> > if you remember 4d, it is procedural. the newer syntax is OO, with an
>> ORM.
>> > qodly takes that paradigm a step further and makes the syntax more
>> > modern/JS'y.
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > use-livecode mailing list
>> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>    and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Jan 24 00:08:14 2025
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2025 23:08:14 -0600
Subject: Low-code dev tools checklist, Red Flags, LC Options to consider
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycMim0SXeFcEeB0xcHZVnd+3e1PU9jZtPdOYjACsOX=aGQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d8846a04-29fe-4dda-9698-3d6dd4fb0709@pair.com>
 <CADCoycOQZ-NzdjqSfMqFCqr9BD1rprqU1HGh-635ob9=bAqzLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <C53AF3FE-4C9B-434B-B150-81434D017950@iotecdigital.com>
 <CADCoycPBEo07bVBpadRRZOzF8wcjtCw5Urv6LMGkBe4YyyNtJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <AD908E3F-4555-40B0-A614-C77464460E7C@iotecdigital.com>
 <CADCoycPsnzexbdTa=E_e7e8FWvYh48AZt1MueCQ1L2jRyJ=_5w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADCoycMim0SXeFcEeB0xcHZVnd+3e1PU9jZtPdOYjACsOX=aGQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <19496b5f230.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

Anyone who cut their teeth on HyperCard is old now. <cough>

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On January 23, 2025 2:14:17 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> i mean, i'm kinda old, which is how i remember the dates.
> that, and my first job out of B-school was a combination
> hypercard/supercard/4d nerd.
> come to think of it, i think 4dv2 was 1990, and, at that time, flowcharts
> were optional.
>
> On Thu, Jan 23, 2025 at 3:07PM Mike Kerner <MikeKerner at roadrunner.com>
> wrote:
>
>> dude, 4d hasn't used flowcharts since around 1992, and at that time, it
>> was optional (instead of coding methods like you would usually expect)
>> you are O-L-D.
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 23, 2025 at 11:12AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah we used to have 4th Dimension at a place I worked at many, MANY
>>> years ago. The whole flow chart paradigm kinda lost me.
>>>
>>> Bob S
>>>
>>>
>>> > On Jan 23, 2025, at 6:01 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > correct, the client framework is running js. the client side of your
>>> > project is low/no, so many of the actions you are invoking are inserted
>>> to
>>> > the widget via a menu. if the widget property editor does not get you
>>> what
>>> > you want, you are writing CSS.
>>> > the server code (where a lot of the action is taking place) is written
>>> in
>>> > an updated version of 4d's newer ORDA language.
>>> > if you remember 4d, it is procedural. the newer syntax is OO, with an
>>> ORM.
>>> > qodly takes that paradigm a step further and makes the syntax more
>>> > modern/JS'y.
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > use-livecode mailing list
>>> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
>> On the second day, God created the oceans.
>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>>    and did a little diving.
>> And God said, "This is good."
>>
>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>   and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Jan 24 11:21:19 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2025 16:21:19 +0000
Subject: Low-code dev tools checklist, Red Flags, LC Options to consider
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycPsnzexbdTa=E_e7e8FWvYh48AZt1MueCQ1L2jRyJ=_5w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d8846a04-29fe-4dda-9698-3d6dd4fb0709@pair.com>
 <CADCoycOQZ-NzdjqSfMqFCqr9BD1rprqU1HGh-635ob9=bAqzLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <C53AF3FE-4C9B-434B-B150-81434D017950@iotecdigital.com>
 <CADCoycPBEo07bVBpadRRZOzF8wcjtCw5Urv6LMGkBe4YyyNtJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <AD908E3F-4555-40B0-A614-C77464460E7C@iotecdigital.com>
 <CADCoycPsnzexbdTa=E_e7e8FWvYh48AZt1MueCQ1L2jRyJ=_5w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BDBA3611-2CC2-4972-B746-9796D3B5A9C4@iotecdigital.com>

D-U-H! :-)

Bob S


> On Jan 23, 2025, at 12:07 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> dude, 4d hasn't used flowcharts since around 1992, and at that time, it was
> optional (instead of coding methods like you would usually expect)
> you are O-L-D.
> 
> On Thu, Jan 23, 2025 at 11:12 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Yeah we used to have 4th Dimension at a place I worked at many, MANY years
>> ago. The whole flow chart paradigm kinda lost me.
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 23, 2025, at 6:01 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> correct, the client framework is running js. the client side of your
>>> project is low/no, so many of the actions you are invoking are inserted
>> to
>>> the widget via a menu. if the widget property editor does not get you
>> what
>>> you want, you are writing CSS.
>>> the server code (where a lot of the action is taking place) is written in
>>> an updated version of 4d's newer ORDA language.
>>> if you remember 4d, it is procedural. the newer syntax is OO, with an
>> ORM.
>>> qodly takes that paradigm a step further and makes the syntax more
>>> modern/JS'y.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>   and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Jan 24 11:24:16 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2025 16:24:16 +0000
Subject: Low-code dev tools checklist, Red Flags, LC Options to consider
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycMim0SXeFcEeB0xcHZVnd+3e1PU9jZtPdOYjACsOX=aGQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d8846a04-29fe-4dda-9698-3d6dd4fb0709@pair.com>
 <CADCoycOQZ-NzdjqSfMqFCqr9BD1rprqU1HGh-635ob9=bAqzLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <C53AF3FE-4C9B-434B-B150-81434D017950@iotecdigital.com>
 <CADCoycPBEo07bVBpadRRZOzF8wcjtCw5Urv6LMGkBe4YyyNtJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <AD908E3F-4555-40B0-A614-C77464460E7C@iotecdigital.com>
 <CADCoycPsnzexbdTa=E_e7e8FWvYh48AZt1MueCQ1L2jRyJ=_5w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADCoycMim0SXeFcEeB0xcHZVnd+3e1PU9jZtPdOYjACsOX=aGQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DEB8AF4C-E8FB-495E-AD5F-7F19894E97A8@iotecdigital.com>

The first viable app I created for use for others was a hypercard stack where a person entered responses from listeners for a syndicated radio station 501c3. Each month the user would then run a report that listed income generated, as well as money owed. (Sometimes stations paid us, sometimes we paid the station.) I even had it writing checks.

Bob S


On Jan 23, 2025, at 12:11 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

i mean, i'm kinda old, which is how i remember the dates.
that, and my first job out of B-school was a combination
hypercard/supercard/4d nerd.
come to think of it, i think 4dv2 was 1990, and, at that time, flowcharts
were optional.


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Jan 24 11:25:13 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2025 16:25:13 +0000
Subject: Low-code dev tools checklist, Red Flags, LC Options to consider
In-Reply-To: <19496b5f230.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <d8846a04-29fe-4dda-9698-3d6dd4fb0709@pair.com>
 <CADCoycOQZ-NzdjqSfMqFCqr9BD1rprqU1HGh-635ob9=bAqzLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <C53AF3FE-4C9B-434B-B150-81434D017950@iotecdigital.com>
 <CADCoycPBEo07bVBpadRRZOzF8wcjtCw5Urv6LMGkBe4YyyNtJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <AD908E3F-4555-40B0-A614-C77464460E7C@iotecdigital.com>
 <CADCoycPsnzexbdTa=E_e7e8FWvYh48AZt1MueCQ1L2jRyJ=_5w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADCoycMim0SXeFcEeB0xcHZVnd+3e1PU9jZtPdOYjACsOX=aGQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <19496b5f230.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <82F2A3BF-37D2-46BC-8736-29663287811F@iotecdigital.com>

Yeah. <looks sideways> <coughs>

Bob S


> On Jan 23, 2025, at 9:08 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Anyone who cut their teeth on HyperCard is old now. <cough>
> 
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On January 23, 2025 2:14:17 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> i mean, i'm kinda old, which is how i remember the dates.
>> that, and my first job out of B-school was a combination
>> hypercard/supercard/4d nerd.
>> come to think of it, i think 4dv2 was 1990, and, at that time, flowcharts
>> were optional.
>> 
>> On Thu, Jan 23, 2025 at 3:07 PM Mike Kerner <MikeKerner at roadrunner.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> dude, 4d hasn't used flowcharts since around 1992, and at that time, it
>>> was optional (instead of coding methods like you would usually expect)
>>> you are O-L-D.
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Jan 23, 2025 at 11:12 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Yeah we used to have 4th Dimension at a place I worked at many, MANY
>>>> years ago. The whole flow chart paradigm kinda lost me.
>>>> 
>>>> Bob S
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> > On Jan 23, 2025, at 6:01 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > correct, the client framework is running js. the client side of your
>>>> > project is low/no, so many of the actions you are invoking are inserted
>>>> to
>>>> > the widget via a menu. if the widget property editor does not get you
>>>> what
>>>> > you want, you are writing CSS.
>>>> > the server code (where a lot of the action is taking place) is written
>>>> in
>>>> > an updated version of 4d's newer ORDA language.
>>>> > if you remember 4d, it is procedural. the newer syntax is OO, with an
>>>> ORM.
>>>> > qodly takes that paradigm a step further and makes the syntax more
>>>> > modern/JS'y.
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > use-livecode mailing list
>>>> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
>>> On the second day, God created the oceans.
>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>>>   and did a little diving.
>>> And God said, "This is good."
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
>> On the second day, God created the oceans.
>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>>  and did a little diving.
>> And God said, "This is good."
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Jan 24 12:06:34 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2025 17:06:34 +0000
Subject: The Files Function borked?
In-Reply-To: <2658d163-391e-459a-a9e3-3212d06d9620@pair.com>
References: <5619D0BB-FCBF-4C11-B363-76D4DC170E8D@iotecdigital.com>
 <2658d163-391e-459a-a9e3-3212d06d9620@pair.com>
Message-ID: <1A239072-2F40-4A5E-96B3-0ED9AA8F191F@iotecdigital.com>

When I use answer file on a parallels share folder (one from the MacOS) I get something like this: 

C:/Mac/Home/Desktop/patch1.hex

When I use the dir command it correctly resolves the path, but cannot find the file:

U:\>dir /T:W "C:/Mac/Home/Desktop/patch1.hex"
 Volume in drive C has no label.
 Volume Serial Number is D892-E6EA

 Directory of C:\Mac\Home\Desktop

File Not Found

U:\>

But this works:

U:\>dir /T:W "\\Mac\Home\Desktop\patch1.hex"
 Volume in drive \\Mac\Home is Shared Folders
 Volume Serial Number is 0000-0000

 Directory of \\Mac\Home\Desktop

10/20/2023  12:06 AM               408 patch1.hex
               1 File(s)            408 bytes
               0 Dir(s)  393,116,905,472 bytes free

So in the first example it looks like Windows correctly resolves the file path, but then cannot find the file! 

I think what I need is a way to reliably convert a file path from the format that Livecode uses to the format the command consolve can use. I could have sworn that LC had a function to convert to and from Windows file paths, but I can’t find it in the dictionary. I’ll probably have to roll my own. 

Bob S


> On Jan 15, 2025, at 12:13 PM, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Bob:
> 
> > I keep getting “file not found.”
> 
> > answer file "Select file"
> > put it into tFileName
> > put "dir /T:W "  & quote & tFileName & quote into tCmd
> > put shell(tCmd)
> 
> Whaaa???
> 
> Fix your /'s!
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Curry Kenworthy
> 
> Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
> "PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
> https://livecodeconsulting.com/
> 
> More news after recuperating a bit....
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Jan 24 12:24:37 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2025 17:24:37 +0000
Subject: The Files Function borked?
In-Reply-To: <1A239072-2F40-4A5E-96B3-0ED9AA8F191F@iotecdigital.com>
References: <5619D0BB-FCBF-4C11-B363-76D4DC170E8D@iotecdigital.com>
 <2658d163-391e-459a-a9e3-3212d06d9620@pair.com>
 <1A239072-2F40-4A5E-96B3-0ED9AA8F191F@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <EBF26142-FCFC-4F2E-A5A4-F91241891BDD@iotecdigital.com>

Okay I see on windows all I need to do is replace slash with backslash. Too easy. :-)

Bob S

> On Jan 24, 2025, at 9:06 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Jan 24 17:26:14 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2025 22:26:14 +0000
Subject: Detailed File Info
Message-ID: <4940616C-E18A-4A3A-8914-72921B610267@iotecdigital.com>

Hi all. 

I’ve been wanting to write a function for getting the size and the last modified datetime of one specific file. I finally figured out how to do it. Here’s the function. Enjoy. 

function getDetailedFileInfo pFilePath
   -- new method use shell
   if the platform contains "win" then   
      replace slash with backslash in pFilePath
      put "dir /T:W "  & quote & pFilePath & quote into tShellCommand
      put shell(tShellCommand) into tResult
      put word 1 of line 6 of tResult into tDate
      put formatDate(tDate, "sql date") into tDate
      put word 2 of line 6 of tResult into tTime
      put formatTime(tTime, "sql time") into tTime
      put tDate && tTime into tDateTime
      put word 4 of line 6 of tResult into tFileSize
      replace comma with empty in tFileSize
      put tFileSize *1000 into tFileSize
   else
      put "getFileInfo -m" && quote & pFilePath & quote into tShellCommand
      put shell(tShellCommand) into tResult
      put formatDate(word 1 of tResult, "sql date") && \
            formatTime(word 2 of tResult, "sql time") into tDateTime
      put "echo "& quote & "$(( $(stat -f'%z' filename)))" & quote into tShellCommand
      replace fileName with "'" & pFilePath & "'" in tShellCommand
      put word 1 of shell(tShellCommand) into tFileSize
   end if
   
   put tFilePath & comma & tFileSize & comma & tDateTime & cr after tNewDetailedFiles
   return tNewDetailedFiles
end getDetailedFileInfo

FUNCTION formatDate theDate, theFormat
   /*
   Accepts any valid date for the first parameter. If not a valid date, it simply returns
   what was passed. Second parameter can be any of the following:
   sql date: date in the yyyy-mm-dd format
   short date, abbreviated date, internet date, long date: LC versions of the same
   julian date: Julian number based on (I believe) Jacques formula
   standard date: The date in the form of "mm/dd/yyyy"
   */
   
   put theDate into tSavedDate
   put the itemdelimiter into theOldDelim
   set the itemdelimiter to "-"
   
   IF the length of item 1 of theDate = 4 AND \
         the number of items of theDate = 3 AND \
         item 1 of theDate is a number AND \
         item 2 of theDate is a number AND \
         item 3 of theDate is a number THEN
      put item 2 of theDate & "/" & \
            item 3 of theDate & "/" & \
            item 1 of theDate into theDate
   END IF
   
   -- replace "." with "/" in theDate
   convert theDate to dateitems
   set the itemdelimiter to theOldDelim
   
   --   if the number of items of theDate <> 7 then
   --      answer "'" & theDate & "' is not a valid date format!"
   --      return tSavedDate
   --   end if
   
   SWITCH word 1 of theFormat
      CASE "sql"
         /*
         put item 1 of theDate & "-" & \
               format("%02d",item 2 of theDate) & "-" & \
               format("%02d",item 3 of theDate) into theDate
         */
         put format("%s-%02d-%02d", item 1 of theDate, item 2 of theDate, \
               item 3 of theDate) into theDate
         break
      CASE "short"
         convert theDate from dateitems to short date
         break
      CASE "abbreviated"
         convert theDate from dateitems to abbreviated date
         break
      CASE "abbr"
         convert theDate from dateitems to abbreviated date
         break
      CASE "internet"
         convert theDate from dateitems to internet date
         break
      CASE "long"
         convert theDate from dateitems to long date
         break
      CASE "julian"
         put the date into theDate
         convert theDate to dateItems
         IF  ((item 2 of theDate = 1) OR (item 2 of theDate = 2)) THEN
            put 1 into theDay
         ELSE
            put 0 into theDay
         END IF
         put item 1 of theDate + 4800 - theDay into theYear
         put item 2 of theDate + (12 * theDay) - 3 into theMonth
         put item 3 of theDate + \
               ((153 * theMonth + 2) div 5) + \
               (365 * theYear) + \
               (theYear div 4) - \
               (theYear div 100) + \
               (theYear div 400) - \
               32045 into theDate
         break
      case "standard"
         put format("%02d/%02d/%04d", item 2 of theDate, item 3 of theDate, \
               item 1 of theDate) into theDate
         break
      default 
         put tSavedDate into theDate
   END SWITCH
   
   return theDate
END formatDate

FUNCTION formatTime theTime, tOutFormat, tInFormat
   /*
   formatTime accepts any valid time and returns the form of the time specified in the second parameter.
   The valid formats are:
   sql time: hh:mm:ss (Note: combining sql date from the formatDate() function with the
   sql time will produce a valid SQL date time type).
   short time: LC short time format
   abbreviated time: LC abbr time format (same as short time)
   long time: LC long time format
   seconds: the number of seconds since the prior midnight
   military: the military time 00:00 - 23:59
   */
   
   IF theTime is empty THEN return empty
   if tOutFormat is empty then return theTime
   if tInFormat is empty then put "short time" into tInFormat
   
   if tOutFormat is among the items of "short time,long time,abbreviated time,seconds" then
      put "convert theTime from " & tInFormat & " to " & tOutFormat into tCommand
      do tCommand
      return theTime
   end if
   
   -- strip leading and trailing spaces
   put word 1 to -1 of theTime into theTime
   
   -- replace spaces with colons
   replace space with colon in theTime
   replace ":AM" with " AM" in theTime
   replace ":PM" with " PM" in theTime
   
   -- convert integer to time
   if theTime is an integer then \
         put theTime & ":" & "00" into theTime
   
   -- determine if seconds are in theTime
   set the itemDelimiter to ":"
   put the number of items of theTime >2 into tUseSeconds
   set the itemDelimiter to ","
   
   set the numberformat to "00"
   SWITCH word 1 of tOutFormat
      CASE "sql"
         convert theTime to dateitems
         put (item 4 of theTime +0) & ":" & \
               (item 5 of theTime +0) & ":" & \
               (item 6 of theTime +0) into theTime
         break
      CASE "short"
         convert theTime to short time
         break
      CASE "abbreviated"
         convert theTime to abbreviated time
         break
      CASE "long"
         convert theTime to long time
         break
      CASE "seconds"
         convert theTime to seconds
         break
      CASE "military"
         put theTime into tMilitaryTime
         convert tMilitaryTime to dateitems
         put 0 + item 4 of tMilitaryTime & ":" & 0 + item 5 of tMilitaryTime into theTime
         if tUseSeconds is true then \
               put ":" & 0 + item 6 of tMilitaryTime after theTime
         break
   END SWITCH
   
   return theTime
END formatTime

Bob S

From curry at pair.com  Sun Jan 26 17:32:03 2025
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2025 17:32:03 -0500
Subject: The Files Function borked?
In-Reply-To: <EBF26142-FCFC-4F2E-A5A4-F91241891BDD@iotecdigital.com>
References: <EBF26142-FCFC-4F2E-A5A4-F91241891BDD@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <47f25424-0d8b-45a8-8720-d79426b2966e@pair.com>

Curry:

 > Fix your /'s!

Bob:

 > all I need to do is replace slash with backslash. Too easy. :-)

You're welcome. See, a one liner - not War and Peace!

Best wishes,

Curry K.


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Mon Jan 27 12:17:42 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2025 17:17:42 +0000
Subject: Popup Button bug??
Message-ID: <89890A6A-0504-417D-A765-A29ECB9B1433@iotecdigital.com>

Hi all. 

I have the command: 
popup pMenuButton at pLocation

pMenuButton contains:
button “mnuLocations"

pLocation contains: 
55,303

I am getting the error: 
stack "moduleCardBehavior": execution error at line 360 (subwindow: can't find stack or button), char 1

I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. What in the name of all <fill in the blank> is going on here??

Bob S


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Mon Jan 27 12:27:03 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2025 17:27:03 +0000
Subject: Popup Button bug??
In-Reply-To: <89890A6A-0504-417D-A765-A29ECB9B1433@iotecdigital.com>
References: <89890A6A-0504-417D-A765-A29ECB9B1433@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <AF356B85-BE50-455E-BBEC-19D47EA4F318@iotecdigital.com>

Okay, it appears that this command can only be used in a mouseDown handler. That isn’t entirely clear in the dictionary. I am simply trying to present a menu to the user. I will use a different kind of menu button then, and just show and hide the button. 

Bob S


> On Jan 27, 2025, at 9:17 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi all. 
> 
> I have the command: 
> popup pMenuButton at pLocation
> 
> pMenuButton contains:
> button “mnuLocations"
> 
> pLocation contains: 
> 55,303
> 
> I am getting the error: 
> stack "moduleCardBehavior": execution error at line 360 (subwindow: can't find stack or button), char 1
> 
> I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. What in the name of all <fill in the blank> is going on here??
> 
> Bob S
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From craig at starfirelighting.com  Mon Jan 27 12:28:30 2025
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2025 12:28:30 -0500
Subject: Popup Button bug??
In-Reply-To: <89890A6A-0504-417D-A765-A29ECB9B1433@iotecdigital.com>
References: <89890A6A-0504-417D-A765-A29ECB9B1433@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <13A570DF-C22D-4207-AF6F-9E8B306FC26E@starfirelighting.com>

Bob .

“popup” is not a command that creates a button. It only works with an existing button, opening its contents at a location of your choice. That button can be hidden, but its menu will appear anyway.

Craig

> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:17 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi all. 
> 
> I have the command: 
> popup pMenuButton at pLocation
> 
> pMenuButton contains:
> button “mnuLocations"
> 
> pLocation contains: 
> 55,303
> 
> I am getting the error: 
> stack "moduleCardBehavior": execution error at line 360 (subwindow: can't find stack or button), char 1
> 
> I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. What in the name of all <fill in the blank> is going on here??
> 
> Bob S
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From paul at researchware.com  Mon Jan 27 12:29:47 2025
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2025 12:29:47 -0500
Subject: Popup Button bug??
In-Reply-To: <89890A6A-0504-417D-A765-A29ECB9B1433@iotecdigital.com>
References: <89890A6A-0504-417D-A765-A29ECB9B1433@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <0498d82b-fa0b-4d4a-ad1b-65c3f2037b68@researchware.com>

Is this new and occurring on macOS Sequoia?

I ask as I have some popup (and other) menu weirdness happening that is 
new to Sequoia.


On 1/27/2025 12:17 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi all.
>
> I have the command:
> popup pMenuButton at pLocation
>
> pMenuButton contains:
> button mnuLocations"
>
> pLocation contains:
> 55,303
>
> I am getting the error:
> stack "moduleCardBehavior": execution error at line 360 (subwindow: can't find stack or button), char 1
>
> I assure everyone there *IS* a button called mnuLocations. What in the name of all <fill in the blank> is going on here??
>
> Bob S
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Mon Jan 27 12:31:59 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2025 17:31:59 +0000
Subject: Popup Button bug??
In-Reply-To: <13A570DF-C22D-4207-AF6F-9E8B306FC26E@starfirelighting.com>
References: <89890A6A-0504-417D-A765-A29ECB9B1433@iotecdigital.com>
 <13A570DF-C22D-4207-AF6F-9E8B306FC26E@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <244221DA-4E41-4608-BC54-B863A9888D2E@iotecdigital.com>

Understood. That is why I wrote, I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. As I posted later, this command can only be used in a mouseDown handler. I think I knew this many, many years ago, but I forgot. 

Bob S


> On Jan 27, 2025, at 9:28 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Bob .
> 
> “popup” is not a command that creates a button. It only works with an existing button, opening its contents at a location of your choice. That button can be hidden, but its menu will appear anyway.
> 
> Craig
> 
>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:17 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all. 
>> 
>> I have the command: 
>> popup pMenuButton at pLocation
>> 
>> pMenuButton contains:
>> button “mnuLocations"
>> 
>> pLocation contains: 
>> 55,303
>> 
>> I am getting the error: 
>> stack "moduleCardBehavior": execution error at line 360 (subwindow: can't find stack or button), char 1
>> 
>> I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. What in the name of all <fill in the blank> is going on here??
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From craig at starfirelighting.com  Mon Jan 27 12:39:42 2025
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2025 12:39:42 -0500
Subject: Popup Button bug??
In-Reply-To: <244221DA-4E41-4608-BC54-B863A9888D2E@iotecdigital.com>
References: <89890A6A-0504-417D-A765-A29ECB9B1433@iotecdigital.com>
 <13A570DF-C22D-4207-AF6F-9E8B306FC26E@starfirelighting.com>
 <244221DA-4E41-4608-BC54-B863A9888D2E@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <743BAC20-6A22-43D2-B3BC-DF6B2C14DA3F@starfirelighting.com>

Bob.

It works just fine in a mouseUp handler as well. I just did it. 

Craig

> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:31 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Understood. That is why I wrote, I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. As I posted later, this command can only be used in a mouseDown handler. I think I knew this many, many years ago, but I forgot. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 9:28 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Bob .
>> 
>> “popup” is not a command that creates a button. It only works with an existing button, opening its contents at a location of your choice. That button can be hidden, but its menu will appear anyway.
>> 
>> Craig
>> 
>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:17 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all. 
>>> 
>>> I have the command: 
>>> popup pMenuButton at pLocation
>>> 
>>> pMenuButton contains:
>>> button “mnuLocations"
>>> 
>>> pLocation contains: 
>>> 55,303
>>> 
>>> I am getting the error: 
>>> stack "moduleCardBehavior": execution error at line 360 (subwindow: can't find stack or button), char 1
>>> 
>>> I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. What in the name of all <fill in the blank> is going on here??
>>> 
>>> Bob S
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From craig at starfirelighting.com  Mon Jan 27 12:47:21 2025
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2025 12:47:21 -0500
Subject: Popup Button bug??
In-Reply-To: <743BAC20-6A22-43D2-B3BC-DF6B2C14DA3F@starfirelighting.com>
References: <89890A6A-0504-417D-A765-A29ECB9B1433@iotecdigital.com>
 <13A570DF-C22D-4207-AF6F-9E8B306FC26E@starfirelighting.com>
 <244221DA-4E41-4608-BC54-B863A9888D2E@iotecdigital.com>
 <743BAC20-6A22-43D2-B3BC-DF6B2C14DA3F@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <B659E1F8-4465-4463-80FF-55C5DA263184@starfirelighting.com>

It also works with any style of menu-style button, combobox, pulldown, etc.

Craig

> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:39 PM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Bob.
> 
> It works just fine in a mouseUp handler as well. I just did it. 
> 
> Craig
> 
>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:31 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Understood. That is why I wrote, I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. As I posted later, this command can only be used in a mouseDown handler. I think I knew this many, many years ago, but I forgot. 
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 9:28 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Bob .
>>> 
>>> “popup” is not a command that creates a button. It only works with an existing button, opening its contents at a location of your choice. That button can be hidden, but its menu will appear anyway.
>>> 
>>> Craig
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:17 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi all. 
>>>> 
>>>> I have the command: 
>>>> popup pMenuButton at pLocation
>>>> 
>>>> pMenuButton contains:
>>>> button “mnuLocations"
>>>> 
>>>> pLocation contains: 
>>>> 55,303
>>>> 
>>>> I am getting the error: 
>>>> stack "moduleCardBehavior": execution error at line 360 (subwindow: can't find stack or button), char 1
>>>> 
>>>> I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. What in the name of all <fill in the blank> is going on here??
>>>> 
>>>> Bob S
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Mon Jan 27 14:01:44 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2025 19:01:44 +0000
Subject: Popup Button bug??
In-Reply-To: <743BAC20-6A22-43D2-B3BC-DF6B2C14DA3F@starfirelighting.com>
References: <89890A6A-0504-417D-A765-A29ECB9B1433@iotecdigital.com>
 <13A570DF-C22D-4207-AF6F-9E8B306FC26E@starfirelighting.com>
 <244221DA-4E41-4608-BC54-B863A9888D2E@iotecdigital.com>
 <743BAC20-6A22-43D2-B3BC-DF6B2C14DA3F@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <F5549BD0-FA11-40AD-A6A0-135272E27304@iotecdigital.com>

Interesting, the dictionary didn’t mention mouseUp. But some kind of mouse up or down handler has to be what makes the call. 

It turns out that rolling your own blocking popup “menu” is not very straightforward. Here is what I came up with: 

on popupMenu pMenu, pItems, pLocation
   -- anything less than 3 lines and the scrollbar does not display correctly
   if the number of lines of pItems >3 and \
         the last char pItems is cr then \
         delete last char of pItems
   
   set the text of pMenu to pItems
   set the height of pMenu to \
         min(the formattedHeight of pMenu, 178) — for me 178 is 10 lines of formattedText YMMV
   set the width of pMenu to the formattedWidth of pMenu
   set the topLeft of pMenu to pLocation
   show pMenu 
   focus on pMenu
   set the hilitedLine of pMenu to empty -- because focus will auto-select line 1
   wait until the visible of pMenu is false with messages
end popupMenu


— in the script of a Scrolling List Field
local lParentCard

on selectionChanged
   put getParentCard(the long id of me) into lParentCard
   put the hilitedLine of me into tLine
   put line tLine of the text of me into tItem
   set the currentLocation of lParentCard to tItem — or whatever you want to do with tItem
   hide me
end selectionChanged

on escapeKey
   selectionChanged
end escapeKey

on focusOut
   selectionChanged
end focusOut

FUNCTION getParentCard pObjectID
   put offset("card id", pObjectID) into tStartChar
   put char tStartChar to -1 of pObjectID into tCardID
   return tCardID
END getParentCard

Bob S

> On Jan 27, 2025, at 9:39 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Bob.
> 
> It works just fine in a mouseUp handler as well. I just did it. 
> 
> Craig
> 
>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:31 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Understood. That is why I wrote, I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. As I posted later, this command can only be used in a mouseDown handler. I think I knew this many, many years ago, but I forgot. 
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 9:28 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Bob .
>>> 
>>> “popup” is not a command that creates a button. It only works with an existing button, opening its contents at a location of your choice. That button can be hidden, but its menu will appear anyway.
>>> 
>>> Craig
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:17 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi all. 
>>>> 
>>>> I have the command: 
>>>> popup pMenuButton at pLocation
>>>> 
>>>> pMenuButton contains:
>>>> button “mnuLocations"
>>>> 
>>>> pLocation contains: 
>>>> 55,303
>>>> 
>>>> I am getting the error: 
>>>> stack "moduleCardBehavior": execution error at line 360 (subwindow: can't find stack or button), char 1
>>>> 
>>>> I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. What in the name of all <fill in the blank> is going on here??
>>>> 
>>>> Bob S
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From craig at starfirelighting.com  Mon Jan 27 15:27:32 2025
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2025 15:27:32 -0500
Subject: Popup Button bug??
In-Reply-To: <F5549BD0-FA11-40AD-A6A0-135272E27304@iotecdigital.com>
References: <89890A6A-0504-417D-A765-A29ECB9B1433@iotecdigital.com>
 <13A570DF-C22D-4207-AF6F-9E8B306FC26E@starfirelighting.com>
 <244221DA-4E41-4608-BC54-B863A9888D2E@iotecdigital.com>
 <743BAC20-6A22-43D2-B3BC-DF6B2C14DA3F@starfirelighting.com>
 <F5549BD0-FA11-40AD-A6A0-135272E27304@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <68662892-00A0-493A-97D2-27038664B20D@starfirelighting.com>

Bob.

What are you trying to accomplish that the native buttons do not do for you? The popUp command, to me, is simply a tool to invoke a display of resident menuItems that do not necessarily have to live at the button location itself, and that button not even needing to be visible.

Are you adding a lot of additional gadgetry?

Craig

> On Jan 27, 2025, at 2:01 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Interesting, the dictionary didn’t mention mouseUp. But some kind of mouse up or down handler has to be what makes the call. 
> 
> It turns out that rolling your own blocking popup “menu” is not very straightforward. Here is what I came up with: 
> 
> on popupMenu pMenu, pItems, pLocation
>   -- anything less than 3 lines and the scrollbar does not display correctly
>   if the number of lines of pItems >3 and \
>         the last char pItems is cr then \
>         delete last char of pItems
> 
>   set the text of pMenu to pItems
>   set the height of pMenu to \
>         min(the formattedHeight of pMenu, 178) — for me 178 is 10 lines of formattedText YMMV
>   set the width of pMenu to the formattedWidth of pMenu
>   set the topLeft of pMenu to pLocation
>   show pMenu 
>   focus on pMenu
>   set the hilitedLine of pMenu to empty -- because focus will auto-select line 1
>   wait until the visible of pMenu is false with messages
> end popupMenu
> 
> 
> — in the script of a Scrolling List Field
> local lParentCard
> 
> on selectionChanged
>   put getParentCard(the long id of me) into lParentCard
>   put the hilitedLine of me into tLine
>   put line tLine of the text of me into tItem
>   set the currentLocation of lParentCard to tItem — or whatever you want to do with tItem
>   hide me
> end selectionChanged
> 
> on escapeKey
>   selectionChanged
> end escapeKey
> 
> on focusOut
>   selectionChanged
> end focusOut
> 
> FUNCTION getParentCard pObjectID
>   put offset("card id", pObjectID) into tStartChar
>   put char tStartChar to -1 of pObjectID into tCardID
>   return tCardID
> END getParentCard
> 
> Bob S
> 
>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 9:39 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Bob.
>> 
>> It works just fine in a mouseUp handler as well. I just did it. 
>> 
>> Craig
>> 
>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:31 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Understood. That is why I wrote, I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. As I posted later, this command can only be used in a mouseDown handler. I think I knew this many, many years ago, but I forgot. 
>>> 
>>> Bob S
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 9:28 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Bob .
>>>> 
>>>> “popup” is not a command that creates a button. It only works with an existing button, opening its contents at a location of your choice. That button can be hidden, but its menu will appear anyway.
>>>> 
>>>> Craig
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:17 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi all. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have the command: 
>>>>> popup pMenuButton at pLocation
>>>>> 
>>>>> pMenuButton contains:
>>>>> button “mnuLocations"
>>>>> 
>>>>> pLocation contains: 
>>>>> 55,303
>>>>> 
>>>>> I am getting the error: 
>>>>> stack "moduleCardBehavior": execution error at line 360 (subwindow: can't find stack or button), char 1
>>>>> 
>>>>> I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. What in the name of all <fill in the blank> is going on here??
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bob S
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Mon Jan 27 16:18:19 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2025 21:18:19 +0000
Subject: Popup Button bug??
In-Reply-To: <68662892-00A0-493A-97D2-27038664B20D@starfirelighting.com>
References: <89890A6A-0504-417D-A765-A29ECB9B1433@iotecdigital.com>
 <13A570DF-C22D-4207-AF6F-9E8B306FC26E@starfirelighting.com>
 <244221DA-4E41-4608-BC54-B863A9888D2E@iotecdigital.com>
 <743BAC20-6A22-43D2-B3BC-DF6B2C14DA3F@starfirelighting.com>
 <F5549BD0-FA11-40AD-A6A0-135272E27304@iotecdigital.com>
 <68662892-00A0-493A-97D2-27038664B20D@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <1DCE4EFF-BF95-4B95-804F-F889D85AA6E8@iotecdigital.com>

Not at all. I have a File Server Agent that uses socket communications. I first get a list of files from the user, then I query the server or a list of what I call Profiles which right now are just a name and a file path on the server. 

I want to present the client user with a list of the names of those profiles. If the user does not select a profile, either by clicking off the menu I pop up, or by hitting the escape key, then I notify the user that they must choose a profile. 

If they do choose a profile then I send the server an array with some key/values, and the file data is stored in a numbered array in the data key. Each key in the data keys is first encrypted, then tho whole of the array is arrayEncoded, then base 64Encoded before opening a socket and sending the data. 

I tried using the popup menu button but that will not work unless the popup button command is called from a mouseDown or mouseUp handler. I am making the call from a behavior script which is why I was getting the error. And besides, you can’t control the popup menu’s appearance, whereas with a field you can. Also I am anticipating having more values than can be entirely displayed by a popup menu without running out of screen real estate, so a scrolling field works much better. 

I’m curious how you would do that with native controls? 

Bob S


> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:27 PM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Bob.
> 
> What are you trying to accomplish that the native buttons do not do for you? The popUp command, to me, is simply a tool to invoke a display of resident menuItems that do not necessarily have to live at the button location itself, and that button not even needing to be visible.
> 
> Are you adding a lot of additional gadgetry?
> 
> Craig
> 
>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 2:01 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Interesting, the dictionary didn’t mention mouseUp. But some kind of mouse up or down handler has to be what makes the call. 
>> 
>> It turns out that rolling your own blocking popup “menu” is not very straightforward. Here is what I came up with: 
>> 
>> on popupMenu pMenu, pItems, pLocation
>>  -- anything less than 3 lines and the scrollbar does not display correctly
>>  if the number of lines of pItems >3 and \
>>        the last char pItems is cr then \
>>        delete last char of pItems
>> 
>>  set the text of pMenu to pItems
>>  set the height of pMenu to \
>>        min(the formattedHeight of pMenu, 178) — for me 178 is 10 lines of formattedText YMMV
>>  set the width of pMenu to the formattedWidth of pMenu
>>  set the topLeft of pMenu to pLocation
>>  show pMenu 
>>  focus on pMenu
>>  set the hilitedLine of pMenu to empty -- because focus will auto-select line 1
>>  wait until the visible of pMenu is false with messages
>> end popupMenu
>> 
>> 
>> — in the script of a Scrolling List Field
>> local lParentCard
>> 
>> on selectionChanged
>>  put getParentCard(the long id of me) into lParentCard
>>  put the hilitedLine of me into tLine
>>  put line tLine of the text of me into tItem
>>  set the currentLocation of lParentCard to tItem — or whatever you want to do with tItem
>>  hide me
>> end selectionChanged
>> 
>> on escapeKey
>>  selectionChanged
>> end escapeKey
>> 
>> on focusOut
>>  selectionChanged
>> end focusOut
>> 
>> FUNCTION getParentCard pObjectID
>>  put offset("card id", pObjectID) into tStartChar
>>  put char tStartChar to -1 of pObjectID into tCardID
>>  return tCardID
>> END getParentCard
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 9:39 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Bob.
>>> 
>>> It works just fine in a mouseUp handler as well. I just did it. 
>>> 
>>> Craig
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:31 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Understood. That is why I wrote, I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. As I posted later, this command can only be used in a mouseDown handler. I think I knew this many, many years ago, but I forgot. 
>>>> 
>>>> Bob S
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 9:28 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bob .
>>>>> 
>>>>> “popup” is not a command that creates a button. It only works with an existing button, opening its contents at a location of your choice. That button can be hidden, but its menu will appear anyway.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Craig
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:17 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi all. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I have the command: 
>>>>>> popup pMenuButton at pLocation
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> pMenuButton contains:
>>>>>> button “mnuLocations"
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> pLocation contains: 
>>>>>> 55,303
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I am getting the error: 
>>>>>> stack "moduleCardBehavior": execution error at line 360 (subwindow: can't find stack or button), char 1
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. What in the name of all <fill in the blank> is going on here??
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Bob S
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From craig at starfirelighting.com  Tue Jan 28 10:07:06 2025
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2025 10:07:06 -0500
Subject: Popup Button bug??
In-Reply-To: <1DCE4EFF-BF95-4B95-804F-F889D85AA6E8@iotecdigital.com>
References: <89890A6A-0504-417D-A765-A29ECB9B1433@iotecdigital.com>
 <13A570DF-C22D-4207-AF6F-9E8B306FC26E@starfirelighting.com>
 <244221DA-4E41-4608-BC54-B863A9888D2E@iotecdigital.com>
 <743BAC20-6A22-43D2-B3BC-DF6B2C14DA3F@starfirelighting.com>
 <F5549BD0-FA11-40AD-A6A0-135272E27304@iotecdigital.com>
 <68662892-00A0-493A-97D2-27038664B20D@starfirelighting.com>
 <1DCE4EFF-BF95-4B95-804F-F889D85AA6E8@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <28A27452-27BA-4618-9BC5-A6F71F332EC5@starfirelighting.com>

Did you try my stack? It does not use a button at all for the menuItem list, rather a field. Looks the same, much easier to manage.

Craig

> On Jan 27, 2025, at 4:18 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Not at all. I have a File Server Agent that uses socket communications. I first get a list of files from the user, then I query the server or a list of what I call Profiles which right now are just a name and a file path on the server. 
> 
> I want to present the client user with a list of the names of those profiles. If the user does not select a profile, either by clicking off the menu I pop up, or by hitting the escape key, then I notify the user that they must choose a profile. 
> 
> If they do choose a profile then I send the server an array with some key/values, and the file data is stored in a numbered array in the data key. Each key in the data keys is first encrypted, then tho whole of the array is arrayEncoded, then base 64Encoded before opening a socket and sending the data. 
> 
> I tried using the popup menu button but that will not work unless the popup button command is called from a mouseDown or mouseUp handler. I am making the call from a behavior script which is why I was getting the error. And besides, you can’t control the popup menu’s appearance, whereas with a field you can. Also I am anticipating having more values than can be entirely displayed by a popup menu without running out of screen real estate, so a scrolling field works much better. 
> 
> I’m curious how you would do that with native controls? 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:27 PM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Bob.
>> 
>> What are you trying to accomplish that the native buttons do not do for you? The popUp command, to me, is simply a tool to invoke a display of resident menuItems that do not necessarily have to live at the button location itself, and that button not even needing to be visible.
>> 
>> Are you adding a lot of additional gadgetry?
>> 
>> Craig
>> 
>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 2:01 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Interesting, the dictionary didn’t mention mouseUp. But some kind of mouse up or down handler has to be what makes the call. 
>>> 
>>> It turns out that rolling your own blocking popup “menu” is not very straightforward. Here is what I came up with: 
>>> 
>>> on popupMenu pMenu, pItems, pLocation
>>> -- anything less than 3 lines and the scrollbar does not display correctly
>>> if the number of lines of pItems >3 and \
>>>       the last char pItems is cr then \
>>>       delete last char of pItems
>>> 
>>> set the text of pMenu to pItems
>>> set the height of pMenu to \
>>>       min(the formattedHeight of pMenu, 178) — for me 178 is 10 lines of formattedText YMMV
>>> set the width of pMenu to the formattedWidth of pMenu
>>> set the topLeft of pMenu to pLocation
>>> show pMenu 
>>> focus on pMenu
>>> set the hilitedLine of pMenu to empty -- because focus will auto-select line 1
>>> wait until the visible of pMenu is false with messages
>>> end popupMenu
>>> 
>>> 
>>> — in the script of a Scrolling List Field
>>> local lParentCard
>>> 
>>> on selectionChanged
>>> put getParentCard(the long id of me) into lParentCard
>>> put the hilitedLine of me into tLine
>>> put line tLine of the text of me into tItem
>>> set the currentLocation of lParentCard to tItem — or whatever you want to do with tItem
>>> hide me
>>> end selectionChanged
>>> 
>>> on escapeKey
>>> selectionChanged
>>> end escapeKey
>>> 
>>> on focusOut
>>> selectionChanged
>>> end focusOut
>>> 
>>> FUNCTION getParentCard pObjectID
>>> put offset("card id", pObjectID) into tStartChar
>>> put char tStartChar to -1 of pObjectID into tCardID
>>> return tCardID
>>> END getParentCard
>>> 
>>> Bob S
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 9:39 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Bob.
>>>> 
>>>> It works just fine in a mouseUp handler as well. I just did it. 
>>>> 
>>>> Craig
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:31 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Understood. That is why I wrote, I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. As I posted later, this command can only be used in a mouseDown handler. I think I knew this many, many years ago, but I forgot. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bob S
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 9:28 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Bob .
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> “popup” is not a command that creates a button. It only works with an existing button, opening its contents at a location of your choice. That button can be hidden, but its menu will appear anyway.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Craig
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:17 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi all. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I have the command: 
>>>>>>> popup pMenuButton at pLocation
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> pMenuButton contains:
>>>>>>> button “mnuLocations"
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> pLocation contains: 
>>>>>>> 55,303
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I am getting the error: 
>>>>>>> stack "moduleCardBehavior": execution error at line 360 (subwindow: can't find stack or button), char 1
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. What in the name of all <fill in the blank> is going on here??
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Bob S
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
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> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
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> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Tue Jan 28 11:04:58 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2025 16:04:58 +0000
Subject: Popup Button bug??
In-Reply-To: <28A27452-27BA-4618-9BC5-A6F71F332EC5@starfirelighting.com>
References: <89890A6A-0504-417D-A765-A29ECB9B1433@iotecdigital.com>
 <13A570DF-C22D-4207-AF6F-9E8B306FC26E@starfirelighting.com>
 <244221DA-4E41-4608-BC54-B863A9888D2E@iotecdigital.com>
 <743BAC20-6A22-43D2-B3BC-DF6B2C14DA3F@starfirelighting.com>
 <F5549BD0-FA11-40AD-A6A0-135272E27304@iotecdigital.com>
 <68662892-00A0-493A-97D2-27038664B20D@starfirelighting.com>
 <1DCE4EFF-BF95-4B95-804F-F889D85AA6E8@iotecdigital.com>
 <28A27452-27BA-4618-9BC5-A6F71F332EC5@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <E540111F-EFF0-45DA-9F2D-F62B0D63B049@iotecdigital.com>

Is it modal?

Bob S


> On Jan 28, 2025, at 7:07 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Did you try my stack? It does not use a button at all for the menuItem list, rather a field. Looks the same, much easier to manage.
> 
> Craig
> 
>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 4:18 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Not at all. I have a File Server Agent that uses socket communications. I first get a list of files from the user, then I query the server or a list of what I call Profiles which right now are just a name and a file path on the server. 
>> 
>> I want to present the client user with a list of the names of those profiles. If the user does not select a profile, either by clicking off the menu I pop up, or by hitting the escape key, then I notify the user that they must choose a profile. 
>> 
>> If they do choose a profile then I send the server an array with some key/values, and the file data is stored in a numbered array in the data key. Each key in the data keys is first encrypted, then tho whole of the array is arrayEncoded, then base 64Encoded before opening a socket and sending the data. 
>> 
>> I tried using the popup menu button but that will not work unless the popup button command is called from a mouseDown or mouseUp handler. I am making the call from a behavior script which is why I was getting the error. And besides, you can’t control the popup menu’s appearance, whereas with a field you can. Also I am anticipating having more values than can be entirely displayed by a popup menu without running out of screen real estate, so a scrolling field works much better. 
>> 
>> I’m curious how you would do that with native controls? 
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:27 PM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Bob.
>>> 
>>> What are you trying to accomplish that the native buttons do not do for you? The popUp command, to me, is simply a tool to invoke a display of resident menuItems that do not necessarily have to live at the button location itself, and that button not even needing to be visible.
>>> 
>>> Are you adding a lot of additional gadgetry?
>>> 
>>> Craig
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 2:01 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Interesting, the dictionary didn’t mention mouseUp. But some kind of mouse up or down handler has to be what makes the call. 
>>>> 
>>>> It turns out that rolling your own blocking popup “menu” is not very straightforward. Here is what I came up with: 
>>>> 
>>>> on popupMenu pMenu, pItems, pLocation
>>>> -- anything less than 3 lines and the scrollbar does not display correctly
>>>> if the number of lines of pItems >3 and \
>>>>      the last char pItems is cr then \
>>>>      delete last char of pItems
>>>> 
>>>> set the text of pMenu to pItems
>>>> set the height of pMenu to \
>>>>      min(the formattedHeight of pMenu, 178) — for me 178 is 10 lines of formattedText YMMV
>>>> set the width of pMenu to the formattedWidth of pMenu
>>>> set the topLeft of pMenu to pLocation
>>>> show pMenu 
>>>> focus on pMenu
>>>> set the hilitedLine of pMenu to empty -- because focus will auto-select line 1
>>>> wait until the visible of pMenu is false with messages
>>>> end popupMenu
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> — in the script of a Scrolling List Field
>>>> local lParentCard
>>>> 
>>>> on selectionChanged
>>>> put getParentCard(the long id of me) into lParentCard
>>>> put the hilitedLine of me into tLine
>>>> put line tLine of the text of me into tItem
>>>> set the currentLocation of lParentCard to tItem — or whatever you want to do with tItem
>>>> hide me
>>>> end selectionChanged
>>>> 
>>>> on escapeKey
>>>> selectionChanged
>>>> end escapeKey
>>>> 
>>>> on focusOut
>>>> selectionChanged
>>>> end focusOut
>>>> 
>>>> FUNCTION getParentCard pObjectID
>>>> put offset("card id", pObjectID) into tStartChar
>>>> put char tStartChar to -1 of pObjectID into tCardID
>>>> return tCardID
>>>> END getParentCard
>>>> 
>>>> Bob S
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 9:39 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bob.
>>>>> 
>>>>> It works just fine in a mouseUp handler as well. I just did it. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Craig
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:31 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Understood. That is why I wrote, I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. As I posted later, this command can only be used in a mouseDown handler. I think I knew this many, many years ago, but I forgot. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Bob S
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 9:28 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Bob .
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> “popup” is not a command that creates a button. It only works with an existing button, opening its contents at a location of your choice. That button can be hidden, but its menu will appear anyway.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Craig
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:17 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hi all. 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I have the command: 
>>>>>>>> popup pMenuButton at pLocation
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> pMenuButton contains:
>>>>>>>> button “mnuLocations"
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> pLocation contains: 
>>>>>>>> 55,303
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I am getting the error: 
>>>>>>>> stack "moduleCardBehavior": execution error at line 360 (subwindow: can't find stack or button), char 1
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. What in the name of all <fill in the blank> is going on here??
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Bob S
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Tue Jan 28 11:06:19 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2025 16:06:19 +0000
Subject: Popup Button bug??
In-Reply-To: <28A27452-27BA-4618-9BC5-A6F71F332EC5@starfirelighting.com>
References: <89890A6A-0504-417D-A765-A29ECB9B1433@iotecdigital.com>
 <13A570DF-C22D-4207-AF6F-9E8B306FC26E@starfirelighting.com>
 <244221DA-4E41-4608-BC54-B863A9888D2E@iotecdigital.com>
 <743BAC20-6A22-43D2-B3BC-DF6B2C14DA3F@starfirelighting.com>
 <F5549BD0-FA11-40AD-A6A0-135272E27304@iotecdigital.com>
 <68662892-00A0-493A-97D2-27038664B20D@starfirelighting.com>
 <1DCE4EFF-BF95-4B95-804F-F889D85AA6E8@iotecdigital.com>
 <28A27452-27BA-4618-9BC5-A6F71F332EC5@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <7F904509-053F-46DB-98DA-AE69D46D85A4@iotecdigital.com>

I am also using a field. Half the magic occurrs outside the field script though. 

Bob S


> On Jan 28, 2025, at 7:07 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Did you try my stack? It does not use a button at all for the menuItem list, rather a field. Looks the same, much easier to manage.
> 
> Craig
> 
>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 4:18 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Not at all. I have a File Server Agent that uses socket communications. I first get a list of files from the user, then I query the server or a list of what I call Profiles which right now are just a name and a file path on the server. 
>> 
>> I want to present the client user with a list of the names of those profiles. If the user does not select a profile, either by clicking off the menu I pop up, or by hitting the escape key, then I notify the user that they must choose a profile. 
>> 
>> If they do choose a profile then I send the server an array with some key/values, and the file data is stored in a numbered array in the data key. Each key in the data keys is first encrypted, then tho whole of the array is arrayEncoded, then base 64Encoded before opening a socket and sending the data. 
>> 
>> I tried using the popup menu button but that will not work unless the popup button command is called from a mouseDown or mouseUp handler. I am making the call from a behavior script which is why I was getting the error. And besides, you can’t control the popup menu’s appearance, whereas with a field you can. Also I am anticipating having more values than can be entirely displayed by a popup menu without running out of screen real estate, so a scrolling field works much better. 
>> 
>> I’m curious how you would do that with native controls? 
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:27 PM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Bob.
>>> 
>>> What are you trying to accomplish that the native buttons do not do for you? The popUp command, to me, is simply a tool to invoke a display of resident menuItems that do not necessarily have to live at the button location itself, and that button not even needing to be visible.
>>> 
>>> Are you adding a lot of additional gadgetry?
>>> 
>>> Craig
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 2:01 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Interesting, the dictionary didn’t mention mouseUp. But some kind of mouse up or down handler has to be what makes the call. 
>>>> 
>>>> It turns out that rolling your own blocking popup “menu” is not very straightforward. Here is what I came up with: 
>>>> 
>>>> on popupMenu pMenu, pItems, pLocation
>>>> -- anything less than 3 lines and the scrollbar does not display correctly
>>>> if the number of lines of pItems >3 and \
>>>>      the last char pItems is cr then \
>>>>      delete last char of pItems
>>>> 
>>>> set the text of pMenu to pItems
>>>> set the height of pMenu to \
>>>>      min(the formattedHeight of pMenu, 178) — for me 178 is 10 lines of formattedText YMMV
>>>> set the width of pMenu to the formattedWidth of pMenu
>>>> set the topLeft of pMenu to pLocation
>>>> show pMenu 
>>>> focus on pMenu
>>>> set the hilitedLine of pMenu to empty -- because focus will auto-select line 1
>>>> wait until the visible of pMenu is false with messages
>>>> end popupMenu
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> — in the script of a Scrolling List Field
>>>> local lParentCard
>>>> 
>>>> on selectionChanged
>>>> put getParentCard(the long id of me) into lParentCard
>>>> put the hilitedLine of me into tLine
>>>> put line tLine of the text of me into tItem
>>>> set the currentLocation of lParentCard to tItem — or whatever you want to do with tItem
>>>> hide me
>>>> end selectionChanged
>>>> 
>>>> on escapeKey
>>>> selectionChanged
>>>> end escapeKey
>>>> 
>>>> on focusOut
>>>> selectionChanged
>>>> end focusOut
>>>> 
>>>> FUNCTION getParentCard pObjectID
>>>> put offset("card id", pObjectID) into tStartChar
>>>> put char tStartChar to -1 of pObjectID into tCardID
>>>> return tCardID
>>>> END getParentCard
>>>> 
>>>> Bob S
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 9:39 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bob.
>>>>> 
>>>>> It works just fine in a mouseUp handler as well. I just did it. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Craig
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:31 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Understood. That is why I wrote, I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. As I posted later, this command can only be used in a mouseDown handler. I think I knew this many, many years ago, but I forgot. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Bob S
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 9:28 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Bob .
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> “popup” is not a command that creates a button. It only works with an existing button, opening its contents at a location of your choice. That button can be hidden, but its menu will appear anyway.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Craig
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:17 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hi all. 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I have the command: 
>>>>>>>> popup pMenuButton at pLocation
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> pMenuButton contains:
>>>>>>>> button “mnuLocations"
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> pLocation contains: 
>>>>>>>> 55,303
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I am getting the error: 
>>>>>>>> stack "moduleCardBehavior": execution error at line 360 (subwindow: can't find stack or button), char 1
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I assure everyone there *IS* a button called “mnuLocations”. What in the name of all <fill in the blank> is going on here??
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Bob S
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Tue Jan 28 12:56:15 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2025 17:56:15 +0000
Subject: Popup Button bug??
In-Reply-To: <7F904509-053F-46DB-98DA-AE69D46D85A4@iotecdigital.com>
References: <89890A6A-0504-417D-A765-A29ECB9B1433@iotecdigital.com>
 <13A570DF-C22D-4207-AF6F-9E8B306FC26E@starfirelighting.com>
 <244221DA-4E41-4608-BC54-B863A9888D2E@iotecdigital.com>
 <743BAC20-6A22-43D2-B3BC-DF6B2C14DA3F@starfirelighting.com>
 <F5549BD0-FA11-40AD-A6A0-135272E27304@iotecdigital.com>
 <68662892-00A0-493A-97D2-27038664B20D@starfirelighting.com>
 <1DCE4EFF-BF95-4B95-804F-F889D85AA6E8@iotecdigital.com>
 <28A27452-27BA-4618-9BC5-A6F71F332EC5@starfirelighting.com>
 <7F904509-053F-46DB-98DA-AE69D46D85A4@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <90EF44E3-1AA1-43A2-89EF-9766171B1BAC@iotecdigital.com>

Okay I see what you did. Actually, what I wanted was to have an empty choice to start with, because users are prone to do the minimal necessary, and will just click the save button without thinking about where the file will be stored. By creating the menu in such a way that either a valid choice is made or else any other action dismisses the "popup menu” I can check that the user selected a valid folder profile. 

Bob S


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Jan 28 17:07:20 2025
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2025 22:07:20 +0000
Subject: Popup Button bug??
Message-ID: <395bcd5da616090cf91c6f71df2bff112ba7fc01@fourthworld.com>

Bob Sneidar wrote:
> I want to present the client user with a list of the names of those profiles.
> If the user does not select a profile, either by clicking off the menu I pop
> up, or by hitting the escape key, then I notify the user that they must
> choose a profile. 

Have you considered a list in modal dialog? 

This would allow a more spacious display for the list and the prompt, prohibit proceeding without the necessary selection, make that necessity clear in its prompt and initially-disabled confirmation button, and offer the option of being entirely keyboard-navigable.


But I'm also curious:

What information does the user need to consider to make that choice, and what would their decision tree look like?

And are some choices better than others?  Are there any that would be a "wrong" choice?  Any that would be a "best" choice?  What are the implications to the system when a suboptimal choice is made?

--
Richard Gaskin
FourthWorld.com


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Tue Jan 28 18:39:26 2025
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2025 23:39:26 +0000
Subject: Popup Button bug??
In-Reply-To: <395bcd5da616090cf91c6f71df2bff112ba7fc01@fourthworld.com>
References: <395bcd5da616090cf91c6f71df2bff112ba7fc01@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <B987729C-9A88-4FBA-A993-EAC9E97624F2@iotecdigital.com>

> On Jan 28, 2025, at 2:07 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Bob Sneidar wrote:
>> I want to present the client user with a list of the names of those profiles.
>> If the user does not select a profile, either by clicking off the menu I pop
>> up, or by hitting the escape key, then I notify the user that they must
>> choose a profile. 
> 
> Have you considered a list in modal dialog? 
I have issues troubleshooting modal stacks so I avoid them if I can. 
> 
> This would allow a more spacious display for the list and the prompt, prohibit proceeding without the necessary selection, make that necessity clear in its prompt and initially-disabled confirmation button, and offer the option of being entirely keyboard-navigable.
Good points, and the keyboard navigation part is tempting. 
> 
> 
> But I'm also curious:
> 
> What information does the user need to consider to make that choice, and what would their decision tree look like?
Service technicians would store two types of documents: Data files (text files, address book backups, clone data etc.) and Forms (PDFs of service forms presented to the customer.) 

But this is the foundation to a more sophisticated document management system, where these storage profiles will be linked to document workflows. Things like Purchase Orders. AP and AR invoices, Sales Orders etc. The solution we currently use, Docuware that was supposed to supplant DocRecord is completely cloud based, and incredibly expensive, especially when we add the storage and extra user licenses we will need for all of our salespersons and accounting and executive staff. 

My ambitious goal is to create a system we control, and then if the company adopts it I can justify the licensing for the new LC product LC Create. But if I cannot demonstrate a viable product, I do not think I can sell the powers that be on the new licensing model. 
> 
> And are some choices better than others?  Are there any that would be a "wrong" choice?  Any that would be a "best" choice?  What are the implications to the system when a suboptimal choice is made?
The only suboptimal choice would be no choice. There has to be some indication of where the file needs to be stored on the server end. I don’t want to define a default because if you leave it up to end users to change the location profile from the default, the untrained and the unconcerned alike are just going to leave defaults as they are. There will be a point at which the user can cancel the file transfer before the payload gets sent. 

That being said, I will have to develop a mode to reassign a document in case of an error, and especially when the workflows begin to take shape. 
> 
> --
> Richard Gaskin
> FourthWorld.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode