From benr_mc at cogapp.com  Fri Aug  2 03:22:00 2024
From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 08:22:00 +0100
Subject: Late arrival to LiveCode Future (and possibly early leaver!)
Message-ID: <48549626-1050-46d4-a581-248870345cf8@cogapp.com>

I've been away, in various senses, and only just read about all this.

I have enormous respect for Kevin and LiveCode.

I've been using the product since it was Metacard, and Revolution (as it was 
then) was an enormous upgrade. The first bug I reported in the quality control 
centre was over 20 years ago (was there another system before then? I don't 
recall anymore). (And indeed the 64th report I made, marked as CONFIRMED but 
still not actioned, that I'd still like, was reported over 20 years ago... ).

I've used it to make tools for myself, a lot; tools for my colleagues a bit; 
tools for clients a bit. Mostly now it's tools for myself, which very rarely 
get built into standalones; but I still maintain a few tools for clients.

As the world developed over the decades, I feared for Kevin's company, 
whatever it was variously called. I felt that they were pursuing an almost 
impossible mission, maintaining and extending an extremely niche language 
across multiple platforms - having to persuade potential clients to buy a 
language before they could try to persuade them to buy a product. I supported 
most or all of the various fundraisers, sometimes with my company's money but 
more often with my own, even for developments I'm not interested in like HTML 
and Xavvi; in solidarity. I'm sorry that the open source experiment didn't 
work out, I'm sorry that the Filemaker idea didn't work out.

I am frankly surprised, and deeply impressed, that they have survived this 
long. It is a tribute to their tenacity and agility.

They have the right to take the company and product in whatever direction they 
think will produce the best result, and I wish them all the best luck in the 
world.

Having said all that:

- Create is not for me.

- I'll keep using Classic while I can

- Please put everything we to need know in text - I can't watch videos*

- Three things I don't yet know:
    - Is Classic changing in any way - e.g. will standalones phone home?
    - Classic supported to 2025 - is that Jan 1 2027, or Dec 31 2027?
    - When Classic goes EOL, will it stop working, or just not receive updates 
for new OS, app store rules etc?
	
Thanks and all the best,

Ben


* doc hawk wrote (01/08/2024):
 > You say the as if expecting someone to view a video to get information 
wasnt an act of Evil . . . :)

- and probably against DDA/ADA/EA


From index at kenjikojima.com  Fri Aug  2 05:59:25 2024
From: index at kenjikojima.com (Kenji Kojima)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 05:59:25 -0400
Subject: Late arrival to LiveCode Future (and possibly early leaver!)
In-Reply-To: <48549626-1050-46d4-a581-248870345cf8@cogapp.com>
References: <48549626-1050-46d4-a581-248870345cf8@cogapp.com>
Message-ID: <52B83FC8-17BB-4AE1-BDE9-C84A39126005@kenjikojima.com>

I agree Ben. 

I've used it to make tools for myself
- Create is not for me.
- I'll keep using Classic while I can
- Please put everything we to need know in text 
- I can't watch videos*

Best,
--
Kenji Kojima / 小島健治
http://www.kenjikojima.com/



> On Aug 2, 2024, at 3:22 AM, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I've been away, in various senses, and only just read about all this.
> 
> I have enormous respect for Kevin and LiveCode.
> 
> I've been using the product since it was Metacard, and Revolution (as it was then) was an enormous upgrade. The first bug I reported in the quality control centre was over 20 years ago (was there another system before then? I don't recall anymore). (And indeed the 64th report I made, marked as CONFIRMED but still not actioned, that I'd still like, was reported over 20 years ago... 🤨).
> 
> I've used it to make tools for myself, a lot; tools for my colleagues a bit; tools for clients a bit. Mostly now it's tools for myself, which very rarely get built into standalones; but I still maintain a few tools for clients.
> 
> As the world developed over the decades, I feared for Kevin's company, whatever it was variously called. I felt that they were pursuing an almost impossible mission, maintaining and extending an extremely niche language across multiple platforms - having to persuade potential clients to buy a language before they could try to persuade them to buy a product. I supported most or all of the various fundraisers, sometimes with my company's money but more often with my own, even for developments I'm not interested in like HTML and Xavvi; in solidarity. I'm sorry that the open source experiment didn't work out, I'm sorry that the Filemaker idea didn't work out.
> 
> I am frankly surprised, and deeply impressed, that they have survived this long. It is a tribute to their tenacity and agility.
> 
> They have the right to take the company and product in whatever direction they think will produce the best result, and I wish them all the best luck in the world.
> 
> Having said all that:
> 
> - Create is not for me.
> 
> - I'll keep using Classic while I can
> 
> - Please put everything we to need know in text - I can't watch videos*
> 
> - Three things I don't yet know:
>   - Is Classic changing in any way - e.g. will standalones phone home?
>   - Classic supported to 2025 - is that Jan 1 2027, or Dec 31 2027?
>   - When Classic goes EOL, will it stop working, or just not receive updates for new OS, app store rules etc?
> 	
> Thanks and all the best,
> 
> Ben
> 
> 
> * doc hawk wrote (01/08/2024):
> > You say the as if expecting someone to view a video to get information wasn’t an act of Evil . . . :)
> 
> - and probably against DDA/ADA/EA
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From curry at pair.com  Fri Aug  2 10:31:16 2024
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 10:31:16 -0400
Subject: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND 2027!
Message-ID: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>


Everyone I know wants to keep using LC Classic for a while.
Most people still want it. Read this list. LC Classic is popular!

Launching LC 10 as DOA or a 'lame duck' makes little sense.
LC 9 and 10 are still heavily in demand under the old terms.

(I'm not against progress; in fact, before Create was announced ...
I knew of at least 3 independent next-gen projects for LiveCode.
Including my own! None would have cost $ millions, but anyway. :)
Make a smoother, friendlier LiveCode transition for best results.)

So, how long can we access the bona fide LC 9 and 10 Classic IDEs?
Given the widespread demand - Through end of 2028? 2029? 2030?
For all those of us who keep existing subscriptions, at least.
And maintain LC 10 platform support for that duration.

(Old licensing terms for app builds created with them, of course.)

Kudos to all those thinking the same thing, and speaking up!

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
"PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
https://livecodeconsulting.com/


From kaveh at rivervalley.io  Fri Aug  2 10:51:14 2024
From: kaveh at rivervalley.io (Kaveh Bazargan)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 15:51:14 +0100
Subject: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND 2027!
In-Reply-To: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>
References: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ2R9pgg_p6Hi4eDiTssm_Pn9DyjCNjJD4iRBjCsor=K0bUDHA@mail.gmail.com>

I've been half following the recent tweets but just don't have the mental
capacity to keep up.

FYI I used HyperCard since it was Beta and no manual!! I really commend
what Kevin and team have done to keep the world's most friendly programming
environment going. I wish I could just pay for LiveCode and use it. I am
guessing that is what Classic is. But perhaps I am just getting too old!

Regards
Kaveh

On Fri, 2 Aug 2024 at 15:32, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>
> Everyone I know wants to keep using LC Classic for a while.
> Most people still want it. Read this list. LC Classic is popular!
>
> Launching LC 10 as DOA or a 'lame duck' makes little sense.
> LC 9 and 10 are still heavily in demand under the old terms.
>
> (I'm not against progress; in fact, before Create was announced ...
> I knew of at least 3 independent next-gen projects for LiveCode.
> Including my own! None would have cost $ millions, but anyway. :)
> Make a smoother, friendlier LiveCode transition for best results.)
>
> So, how long can we access the bona fide LC 9 and 10 Classic IDEs?
> Given the widespread demand - Through end of 2028? 2029? 2030?
> For all those of us who keep existing subscriptions, at least.
> And maintain LC 10 platform support for that duration.
>
> (Old licensing terms for app builds created with them, of course.)
>
> Kudos to all those thinking the same thing, and speaking up!
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Curry Kenworthy
>
> Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
> "PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
> https://livecodeconsulting.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
Kaveh Bazargan PhD
Director
River Valley Technologies <http://rivervalley.io> ● Twitter
<https://twitter.com/rivervalley1000> ● LinkedIn
<https://www.linkedin.com/in/bazargankaveh/> ● ORCID
<https://orcid.org/0000-0002-1414-9098> ● @kaveh1000 at mastodon.social
<https://mastodon.social/@kaveh1000>
*Accelerating the Communication of Research*

*
<https://www.linkedin.com/posts/bazargankaveh_ismte-innovation-award-recipient-kaveh-bazargan-activity-7039348552526921728-XAEB/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop>
 [image:
https://rivervalley.io/gigabyte-wins-the-alpsp-scholarly-publishing-innovation-award-using-river-valleys-publishing-technology/]
<https://rivervalley.io/gigabyte-wins-the-alpsp-scholarly-publishing-innovation-award-using-river-valleys-publishing-technology/>*

From irog at mac.com  Fri Aug  2 10:59:43 2024
From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 07:59:43 -0700
Subject: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND 2027!
In-Reply-To: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>
References: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>
Message-ID: <FBBF2716-8A79-4B3B-8DD8-17A054BF188E@mac.com>

I too am in the "Clasic Is For Me Crowd”

- Been here since Metacard
- Use LC strictly as a hobby
- LC is extremely important to me as a hobby 
- Have created hundreds of tools, utilities, simulations, fun things just for shear enjoyment and mental exercise
- Have frequent internet problems that interfere with cloud computing
- Have participated in every fundraising campagne
- Frequently contributed to Example Stacks including Alien Civilization Detection simulation

I beg you, Kevin, don’t take this away from us

Roger

> On Aug 2, 2024, at 7:31 AM, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> Everyone I know wants to keep using LC Classic for a while.
> Most people still want it. Read this list. LC Classic is popular!
> 
> Launching LC 10 as DOA or a 'lame duck' makes little sense.
> LC 9 and 10 are still heavily in demand under the old terms.
> 
> (I'm not against progress; in fact, before Create was announced ...
> I knew of at least 3 independent next-gen projects for LiveCode.
> Including my own! None would have cost $ millions, but anyway. :)
> Make a smoother, friendlier LiveCode transition for best results.)
> 
> So, how long can we access the bona fide LC 9 and 10 Classic IDEs?
> Given the widespread demand - Through end of 2028? 2029? 2030?
> For all those of us who keep existing subscriptions, at least.
> And maintain LC 10 platform support for that duration.
> 
> (Old licensing terms for app builds created with them, of course.)
> 
> Kudos to all those thinking the same thing, and speaking up!
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Curry Kenworthy
> 
> Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
> "PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
> https://livecodeconsulting.com/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From jbv at souslelogo.com  Fri Aug  2 11:13:05 2024
From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com)
Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2024 11:13:05 -0400
Subject: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND 2027!
In-Reply-To: <FBBF2716-8A79-4B3B-8DD8-17A054BF188E@mac.com>
References: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>
 <FBBF2716-8A79-4B3B-8DD8-17A054BF188E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <900b4b3c1e2f090b6a0c7ac6923b6804@souslelogo.com>

Same here.

I have been into hypertalk since the 1st version of HC.

I have 2 desktop apps for 2 different clients that I maintain, and in 
each one
the part developed with LC Classic is just a front end for sending 
requests to
the server and displaying the incoming data. In both cases 80% of the 
tasks is
done server side with LC on 2 on-rev accounts.
I know for certain that none of my clients will accept to pay for 
per-seats
license.

So I have 2 options so far :
- paying myself for these licenses, which I can't afford
- rewrite the front-end of both apps with html/js and forget about LC.

jbv





From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Aug  2 11:17:42 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 15:17:42 +0000
Subject: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND 2027!
In-Reply-To: <FBBF2716-8A79-4B3B-8DD8-17A054BF188E@mac.com>
References: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>
 <FBBF2716-8A79-4B3B-8DD8-17A054BF188E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <66C12BFE-0D1D-4FBB-8C9F-EFFCC1CB225A@iotecdigital.com>

Kevin has clearly made the point that it has become financially untenable to continue with the classic licensing model. You cannot mean that you want him to go bankrupt so that you can maintain your hobby! You are asking him for what he cannot give. It only remains then for all of us to decide what we can and cannot accept.

Bob S


On Aug 2, 2024, at 7:59 AM, Roger Guay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

I too am in the "Clasic Is For Me Crowd”

- Been here since Metacard
- Use LC strictly as a hobby
- LC is extremely important to me as a hobby
- Have created hundreds of tools, utilities, simulations, fun things just for shear enjoyment and mental exercise
- Have frequent internet problems that interfere with cloud computing
- Have participated in every fundraising campagne
- Frequently contributed to Example Stacks including Alien Civilization Detection simulation

I beg you, Kevin, don’t take this away from us

Roger


From jbv at souslelogo.com  Fri Aug  2 11:33:15 2024
From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com)
Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2024 11:33:15 -0400
Subject: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND 2027!
In-Reply-To: <66C12BFE-0D1D-4FBB-8C9F-EFFCC1CB225A@iotecdigital.com>
References: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>
 <FBBF2716-8A79-4B3B-8DD8-17A054BF188E@mac.com>
 <66C12BFE-0D1D-4FBB-8C9F-EFFCC1CB225A@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <95268c465ed573c8adb5cc69916a5435@souslelogo.com>

Le 2024-08-02 11:17, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode a crit :
> You cannot mean that you want him to go bankrupt

Of course not, but neither me or my clients want to go bankrupt.
My clients have already paid for the deployment of their apps and they
are also paying when some cosmetic changes need to be done.
They don't see why they should also pay for using the apps,
especially because they work in some niche markets where any
additional cost is difficult to handle.

Paying licenses for using Photoshop or dropbox is different,
because one didn't pay anything for the deployment of those apps.
I hope I am making myself clear despite my poor english.


From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Fri Aug  2 11:35:22 2024
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 11:35:22 -0400
Subject: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND 2027!
In-Reply-To: <66C12BFE-0D1D-4FBB-8C9F-EFFCC1CB225A@iotecdigital.com>
References: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>
 <FBBF2716-8A79-4B3B-8DD8-17A054BF188E@mac.com>
 <66C12BFE-0D1D-4FBB-8C9F-EFFCC1CB225A@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycOJeJYYzPQLBt00vga06d9xnQRw4Nj+0Ka9Nx2CRay2QA@mail.gmail.com>

as i have previously said, the new pricing ($440 per deployed device) is
untenable for my companies. we won't pay 4d for their REST licenses (for a
much more complete product), either.
we are starting to actively search for alternatives.
if the pricing does not change to something that is actually reasonable,
we're out.

From heather at livecode.com  Fri Aug  2 11:57:11 2024
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 16:57:11 +0100
Subject: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND 2027!
In-Reply-To: <900b4b3c1e2f090b6a0c7ac6923b6804@souslelogo.com>
References: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>
 <FBBF2716-8A79-4B3B-8DD8-17A054BF188E@mac.com>
 <900b4b3c1e2f090b6a0c7ac6923b6804@souslelogo.com>
Message-ID: <166DF444-03E5-4A23-9AE8-8219F0408B5D@livecode.com>

Or you could explain your problem to us directly, as Kevin has asked a couple of times already on this list and we can see what we can do. 

You have an open ticket in support. You have not as yet told me that the new pricing is unaffordable for you.

Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 2 Aug 2024, at 16:13, jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Same here.
> 
> I have been into hypertalk since the 1st version of HC.
> 
> I have 2 desktop apps for 2 different clients that I maintain, and in each one
> the part developed with LC Classic is just a front end for sending requests to
> the server and displaying the incoming data. In both cases 80% of the tasks is
> done server side with LC on 2 on-rev accounts.
> I know for certain that none of my clients will accept to pay for per-seats
> license.
> 
> So I have 2 options so far :
> - paying myself for these licenses, which I can't afford
> - rewrite the front-end of both apps with html/js and forget about LC.
> 
> jbv
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From heather at livecode.com  Fri Aug  2 11:58:06 2024
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 16:58:06 +0100
Subject: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND 2027!
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycOJeJYYzPQLBt00vga06d9xnQRw4Nj+0Ka9Nx2CRay2QA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>
 <FBBF2716-8A79-4B3B-8DD8-17A054BF188E@mac.com>
 <66C12BFE-0D1D-4FBB-8C9F-EFFCC1CB225A@iotecdigital.com>
 <CADCoycOJeJYYzPQLBt00vga06d9xnQRw4Nj+0Ka9Nx2CRay2QA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C787C2B2-0F41-4350-B92C-EE7A74F2676F@livecode.com>

Mike. We asked you to talk to us before the pricing went public. Kevin has reiterated the request that clients with issues get in touch. I once again extend that invitation to you.

Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 2 Aug 2024, at 16:35, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> as i have previously said, the new pricing ($440 per deployed device) is
> untenable for my companies. we won't pay 4d for their REST licenses (for a
> much more complete product), either.
> we are starting to actively search for alternatives.
> if the pricing does not change to something that is actually reasonable,
> we're out.
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From irog at mac.com  Fri Aug  2 12:00:09 2024
From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 09:00:09 -0700
Subject: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND 2027!
In-Reply-To: <66C12BFE-0D1D-4FBB-8C9F-EFFCC1CB225A@iotecdigital.com>
References: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>
 <FBBF2716-8A79-4B3B-8DD8-17A054BF188E@mac.com>
 <66C12BFE-0D1D-4FBB-8C9F-EFFCC1CB225A@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <952B8915-8D46-435A-92D8-F0D6A7EF21EF@mac.com>

If this is the conclusion that you come to, then I failed to make my case. Sorry!

 I thank Kevin for keeping this amazing tool going for so many years and want him to succeed in the future. 

Roger

> On Aug 2, 2024, at 8:17 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:
> 
> You cannot mean that you want him to go bankrupt so that you can maintain your hobby!


> On Aug 2, 2024, at 8:17 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Kevin has clearly made the point that it has become financially untenable to continue with the classic licensing model. You cannot mean that you want him to go bankrupt so that you can maintain your hobby! You are asking him for what he cannot give. It only remains then for all of us to decide what we can and cannot accept.
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
> On Aug 2, 2024, at 7:59 AM, Roger Guay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I too am in the "Clasic Is For Me Crowd”
> 
> - Been here since Metacard
> - Use LC strictly as a hobby
> - LC is extremely important to me as a hobby
> - Have created hundreds of tools, utilities, simulations, fun things just for shear enjoyment and mental exercise
> - Have frequent internet problems that interfere with cloud computing
> - Have participated in every fundraising campagne
> - Frequently contributed to Example Stacks including Alien Civilization Detection simulation
> 
> I beg you, Kevin, don’t take this away from us
> 
> Roger
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From hakan at exformedia.se  Fri Aug  2 12:13:50 2024
From: hakan at exformedia.se (=?utf-8?Q?H=C3=A5kan_Liljegren?=)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 18:13:50 +0200
Subject: Individual licensing questions
In-Reply-To: <190f003b830.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <7F21E930-DFAB-4041-A7E2-C0B4ADB70DC2@livecode.com>
 <190f003b830.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <DE13B361-EC9A-4646-BF11-29E956E6045F@exformedia.se>

Hmm, wouldn’t this count in the other tier as you sell your app, thus you should pay 5% of $75? $3.75
 
:-Håkan

> 26 juli 2024 kl. 19:08 skrev J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> I hope this is generic enough.
> 
> I have several clients who use apps I created just for them, 20 years ago or more. Frequently these are converted HyperCard stacks like address books or recipe files. The apps are personal and no one else uses them. Every 2 or 3 years they contact me because the app stops working, usually due to an incompatible OS update. I recompile the app, and sometimes make a few requested tweaks. Since a compile takes only a few minutes, and because I know these people personally, I charge almost nothing for these services. My last invoice for a rebuild and a minor change was $75.
> 
> I do not want to tell them that they will need to spend hundreds of dollars more for a one time minor update. They will not want a subscription because it's years between changes. And because they are not companies and many are now retired, paying hundreds of dollars to maintain an address book is not feasible. I am very sensitive to their budget requirements.
> 
> I'd like to propose a floor under which no royalty or subscription is required. A minimum charge of, say, $500 would yield $25 to LC at the 5% rate. A charge of $1000 would yield $50.
> 
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On July 26, 2024 6:04:30 AM Kevin Miller via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Folks, I'm happy to go on discussing the licensing model in general on here as needed, for example edge cases or things that aren’t clear in the model, as it helps us to hone it. But at this point if you have individual questions about the costs for you under the new model, please email them to support and we can give you an accurate quote and talk you through your options. Otherwise we are going to be going over the same territory here on the list for some time to come! We’ll build out the information pages some more worked examples next week too. Thanks.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Kevin
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Kevin Miller ~ kevin at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
>> 
>> LiveCode: Build Amazing Things
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Fri Aug  2 12:21:09 2024
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 12:21:09 -0400
Subject: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND 2027!
In-Reply-To: <952B8915-8D46-435A-92D8-F0D6A7EF21EF@mac.com>
References: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>
 <FBBF2716-8A79-4B3B-8DD8-17A054BF188E@mac.com>
 <66C12BFE-0D1D-4FBB-8C9F-EFFCC1CB225A@iotecdigital.com>
 <952B8915-8D46-435A-92D8-F0D6A7EF21EF@mac.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycPo9Z53HkYD3Tz0zwJDDVytdnz2=UVKAfjY_hF0Bck-yg@mail.gmail.com>

heather, as i told you, at the time, i am busy running multiple companies.
i don't have time for pitches.
i asked for you to send me the information so that i could review it, ahead
of a call. that request was declined.
if the pricing remains untenable, we will be rewriting apps and exiting.


On Fri, Aug 2, 2024 at 12:01 PM Roger Guay via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> If this is the conclusion that you come to, then I failed to make my case.
> Sorry!
>
>  I thank Kevin for keeping this amazing tool going for so many years and
> want him to succeed in the future.
>
> Roger
>
> > On Aug 2, 2024, at 8:17 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>
> wrote:
> >
> > You cannot mean that you want him to go bankrupt so that you can
> maintain your hobby!
>
>
> > On Aug 2, 2024, at 8:17 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Kevin has clearly made the point that it has become financially
> untenable to continue with the classic licensing model. You cannot mean
> that you want him to go bankrupt so that you can maintain your hobby! You
> are asking him for what he cannot give. It only remains then for all of us
> to decide what we can and cannot accept.
> >
> > Bob S
> >
> >
> > On Aug 2, 2024, at 7:59 AM, Roger Guay via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > I too am in the "Clasic Is For Me Crowd”
> >
> > - Been here since Metacard
> > - Use LC strictly as a hobby
> > - LC is extremely important to me as a hobby
> > - Have created hundreds of tools, utilities, simulations, fun things
> just for shear enjoyment and mental exercise
> > - Have frequent internet problems that interfere with cloud computing
> > - Have participated in every fundraising campagne
> > - Frequently contributed to Example Stacks including Alien Civilization
> Detection simulation
> >
> > I beg you, Kevin, don’t take this away from us
> >
> > Roger
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From jbv at souslelogo.com  Fri Aug  2 12:47:12 2024
From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com)
Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2024 12:47:12 -0400
Subject: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND 2027!
In-Reply-To: <166DF444-03E5-4A23-9AE8-8219F0408B5D@livecode.com>
References: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>
 <FBBF2716-8A79-4B3B-8DD8-17A054BF188E@mac.com>
 <900b4b3c1e2f090b6a0c7ac6923b6804@souslelogo.com>
 <166DF444-03E5-4A23-9AE8-8219F0408B5D@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <a816d70fc3bd44cbf951216e730cf6a4@souslelogo.com>

Heather,

I know you suggested a zoom meeting before announcing the new pricing 
plans, but
we were unable to proceed, mainly because I was really busy with the 
server transfer
for our on-rev accounts and all the troubles it caused to my clients 
with their apps
and all the little adjustments that needed to be made.
Besides I needed to check how my clients would react to the new pricing 
plans before
making any decision, and only 2 days ago I was able to find the time to 
check how
much it really meant.
Last but not least, it is very nice of you to offer the possibility of a 
workaround,
but I guess any solution will only be a short-term one, and I need a 
solution for
the many years to come.

jbv

Le 2024-08-02 11:57, Heather Laine via use-livecode a crit :
> Or you could explain your problem to us directly, as Kevin has asked a 
> couple of times already on this list and we can see what we can do.
> 
> You have an open ticket in support. You have not as yet told me that 
> the new pricing is unaffordable for you.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On 2 Aug 2024, at 16:13, jbv via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Same here.
>> 
>> I have been into hypertalk since the 1st version of HC.
>> 
>> I have 2 desktop apps for 2 different clients that I maintain, and in 
>> each one
>> the part developed with LC Classic is just a front end for sending 
>> requests to
>> the server and displaying the incoming data. In both cases 80% of the 
>> tasks is
>> done server side with LC on 2 on-rev accounts.
>> I know for certain that none of my clients will accept to pay for 
>> per-seats
>> license.
>> 
>> So I have 2 options so far :
>> - paying myself for these licenses, which I can't afford
>> - rewrite the front-end of both apps with html/js and forget about LC.
>> 
>> jbv
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From kevin at stallibrass.com  Fri Aug  2 12:50:18 2024
From: kevin at stallibrass.com (Kevin Stallibrass)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 17:50:18 +0100
Subject: Livecode Future
Message-ID: <3B29DBC2-1DC4-4DAA-A835-4EA299B378FC@stallibrass.com>

Retiree’s comments:
I started with runtime revolution v1 when it was included on a PC Pro magazine all those years ago and immediately built my first program which was a neat utility (in 4 languages) which was used by my company. No fee, plenty cudos.

Continued using Runrev over the years to build tools for myself. Cudos from family and friends

Got a commercial licence when I created my only ‘big’ app which worked on PC’s, Macs, Android, & iOS, all talking to a Livecode server. Even included  an iOS push notification server running on Rpi which was featured in the last RevUp newsletter.
Plenty cudos from company, no payment but avoided a redundancy round and got a free holiday for me and my wife in a swanky villa in the Med.

Favorite app was for iPad ( talking to server) which really helped our sales force - and phoned home when they used it.
Super cudos avoiding the next round of redundancies.

When that company finally folded, I reverted back to the community licence and built a few things for myself and family.

Long, boring story I know but the point i’d like to make is that Runrev enabled me to start coding. They supported me through commercial licence and community freebee’s

I’m retired but still grateful for what the Runrev team has enabled me to do. Thanks for your support Kevin and I sincerely hope you get through this change and continue to help people as stupid as myself succeed.



Regards
Kevin Stallibrass
Sent from my iPhone

> On 2 Aug 2024, at 17:01, use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:
> 
> Send use-livecode mailing list submissions to
>   use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>   http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>   use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>   use-livecode-owner at lists.runrev.com
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of use-livecode digest..."
> 
> 
> you can find the archives for this list at:
> 
> http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/
> 
> and search them using this link:
> 
> https://www.mail-archive.com/use-livecode at lists.runrev.com/
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>  1. Late arrival to LiveCode Future (and possibly early leaver!)
>     (Ben Rubinstein)
>  2. Re: Late arrival to LiveCode Future (and possibly early
>     leaver!) (Kenji Kojima)
>  3. By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND
>     2027! (Curry Kenworthy)
>  4. Re: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs
>     BEYOND 2027! (Kaveh Bazargan)
>  5. Re: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs
>     BEYOND 2027! (Roger Guay)
>  6. Re: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs
>     BEYOND 2027! (jbv at souslelogo.com)
>  7. Re: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs
>     BEYOND 2027! (Bob Sneidar)
>  8. Re: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs
>     BEYOND 2027! (jbv at souslelogo.com)
>  9. Re: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs
>     BEYOND 2027! (Mike Kerner)
> 10. Re: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs
>     BEYOND 2027! (Heather Laine)
> 11. Re: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs
>     BEYOND 2027! (Heather Laine)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 08:22:00 +0100
> From: Ben Rubinstein <benr_mc at cogapp.com>
> To: Use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: Late arrival to LiveCode Future (and possibly early leaver!)
> Message-ID: <48549626-1050-46d4-a581-248870345cf8 at cogapp.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> 
> I've been away, in various senses, and only just read about all this.
> 
> I have enormous respect for Kevin and LiveCode.
> 
> I've been using the product since it was Metacard, and Revolution (as it was
> then) was an enormous upgrade. The first bug I reported in the quality control
> centre was over 20 years ago (was there another system before then? I don't
> recall anymore). (And indeed the 64th report I made, marked as CONFIRMED but
> still not actioned, that I'd still like, was reported over 20 years ago... ?).
> 
> I've used it to make tools for myself, a lot; tools for my colleagues a bit;
> tools for clients a bit. Mostly now it's tools for myself, which very rarely
> get built into standalones; but I still maintain a few tools for clients.
> 
> As the world developed over the decades, I feared for Kevin's company,
> whatever it was variously called. I felt that they were pursuing an almost
> impossible mission, maintaining and extending an extremely niche language
> across multiple platforms - having to persuade potential clients to buy a
> language before they could try to persuade them to buy a product. I supported
> most or all of the various fundraisers, sometimes with my company's money but
> more often with my own, even for developments I'm not interested in like HTML
> and Xavvi; in solidarity. I'm sorry that the open source experiment didn't
> work out, I'm sorry that the Filemaker idea didn't work out.
> 
> I am frankly surprised, and deeply impressed, that they have survived this
> long. It is a tribute to their tenacity and agility.
> 
> They have the right to take the company and product in whatever direction they
> think will produce the best result, and I wish them all the best luck in the
> world.
> 
> Having said all that:
> 
> - Create is not for me.
> 
> - I'll keep using Classic while I can
> 
> - Please put everything we to need know in text - I can't watch videos*
> 
> - Three things I don't yet know:
>   - Is Classic changing in any way - e.g. will standalones phone home?
>   - Classic supported to 2025 - is that Jan 1 2027, or Dec 31 2027?
>   - When Classic goes EOL, will it stop working, or just not receive updates
> for new OS, app store rules etc?
> 
> Thanks and all the best,
> 
> Ben
> 
> 
> * doc hawk wrote (01/08/2024):
>> You say the as if expecting someone to view a video to get information
> wasn?t an act of Evil . . . :)
> 
> - and probably against DDA/ADA/EA
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 05:59:25 -0400
> From: Kenji Kojima <index at kenjikojima.com>
> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: Re: Late arrival to LiveCode Future (and possibly early
>   leaver!)
> Message-ID: <52B83FC8-17BB-4AE1-BDE9-C84A39126005 at kenjikojima.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=utf-8
> 
> I agree Ben.
> 
> I've used it to make tools for myself
> - Create is not for me.
> - I'll keep using Classic while I can
> - Please put everything we to need know in text
> - I can't watch videos*
> 
> Best,
> --
> Kenji Kojima / ????
> http://www.kenjikojima.com/
> 
> 
> 
>> On Aug 2, 2024, at 3:22?AM, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> I've been away, in various senses, and only just read about all this.
>> I have enormous respect for Kevin and LiveCode.
>> I've been using the product since it was Metacard, and Revolution (as it was then) was an enormous upgrade. The first bug I reported in the quality control centre was over 20 years ago (was there another system before then? I don't recall anymore). (And indeed the 64th report I made, marked as CONFIRMED but still not actioned, that I'd still like, was reported over 20 years ago... ?).
>> I've used it to make tools for myself, a lot; tools for my colleagues a bit; tools for clients a bit. Mostly now it's tools for myself, which very rarely get built into standalones; but I still maintain a few tools for clients.
>> As the world developed over the decades, I feared for Kevin's company, whatever it was variously called. I felt that they were pursuing an almost impossible mission, maintaining and extending an extremely niche language across multiple platforms - having to persuade potential clients to buy a language before they could try to persuade them to buy a product. I supported most or all of the various fundraisers, sometimes with my company's money but more often with my own, even for developments I'm not interested in like HTML and Xavvi; in solidarity. I'm sorry that the open source experiment didn't work out, I'm sorry that the Filemaker idea didn't work out.
>> I am frankly surprised, and deeply impressed, that they have survived this long. It is a tribute to their tenacity and agility.
>> They have the right to take the company and product in whatever direction they think will produce the best result, and I wish them all the best luck in the world.
>> Having said all that:
>> - Create is not for me.
>> - I'll keep using Classic while I can
>> - Please put everything we to need know in text - I can't watch videos*
>> - Three things I don't yet know:
>> - Is Classic changing in any way - e.g. will standalones phone home?
>> - Classic supported to 2025 - is that Jan 1 2027, or Dec 31 2027?
>> - When Classic goes EOL, will it stop working, or just not receive updates for new OS, app store rules etc?
>> Thanks and all the best,
>> Ben
>> * doc hawk wrote (01/08/2024):
>>> You say the as if expecting someone to view a video to get information wasn?t an act of Evil . . . :)
>> - and probably against DDA/ADA/EA
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 10:31:16 -0400
> From: Curry Kenworthy <curry at pair.com>
> To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND
>   2027!
> Message-ID: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5 at pair.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> 
> 
> Everyone I know wants to keep using LC Classic for a while.
> Most people still want it. Read this list. LC Classic is popular!
> 
> Launching LC 10 as DOA or a 'lame duck' makes little sense.
> LC 9 and 10 are still heavily in demand under the old terms.
> 
> (I'm not against progress; in fact, before Create was announced ...
> I knew of at least 3 independent next-gen projects for LiveCode.
> Including my own! None would have cost $ millions, but anyway. :)
> Make a smoother, friendlier LiveCode transition for best results.)
> 
> So, how long can we access the bona fide LC 9 and 10 Classic IDEs?
> Given the widespread demand - Through end of 2028? 2029? 2030?
> For all those of us who keep existing subscriptions, at least.
> And maintain LC 10 platform support for that duration.
> 
> (Old licensing terms for app builds created with them, of course.)
> 
> Kudos to all those thinking the same thing, and speaking up!
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Curry Kenworthy
> 
> Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
> "PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
> https://livecodeconsulting.com/
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 15:51:14 +0100
> From: Kaveh Bazargan <kaveh at rivervalley.io>
> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Cc: Curry Kenworthy <curry at pair.com>
> Subject: Re: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs
>   BEYOND 2027!
> Message-ID:
>   <CAJ2R9pgg_p6Hi4eDiTssm_Pn9DyjCNjJD4iRBjCsor=K0bUDHA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> 
> I've been half following the recent tweets but just don't have the mental
> capacity to keep up.
> 
> FYI I used HyperCard since it was Beta and no manual!! I really commend
> what Kevin and team have done to keep the world's most friendly programming
> environment going. I wish I could just pay for LiveCode and use it. I am
> guessing that is what Classic is. But perhaps I am just getting too old!
> 
> Regards
> Kaveh
> 
> On Fri, 2 Aug 2024 at 15:32, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Everyone I know wants to keep using LC Classic for a while.
>> Most people still want it. Read this list. LC Classic is popular!
>> Launching LC 10 as DOA or a 'lame duck' makes little sense.
>> LC 9 and 10 are still heavily in demand under the old terms.
>> (I'm not against progress; in fact, before Create was announced ...
>> I knew of at least 3 independent next-gen projects for LiveCode.
>> Including my own! None would have cost $ millions, but anyway. :)
>> Make a smoother, friendlier LiveCode transition for best results.)
>> So, how long can we access the bona fide LC 9 and 10 Classic IDEs?
>> Given the widespread demand - Through end of 2028? 2029? 2030?
>> For all those of us who keep existing subscriptions, at least.
>> And maintain LC 10 platform support for that duration.
>> (Old licensing terms for app builds created with them, of course.)
>> Kudos to all those thinking the same thing, and speaking up!
>> Best wishes,
>> Curry Kenworthy
>> Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
>> "PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
>> https://livecodeconsulting.com/
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> --
> Kaveh Bazargan PhD
> Director
> River Valley Technologies <http://rivervalley.io> ? Twitter
> <https://twitter.com/rivervalley1000> ? LinkedIn
> <https://www.linkedin.com/in/bazargankaveh/> ? ORCID
> <https://orcid.org/0000-0002-1414-9098> ? @kaveh1000 at mastodon.social
> <https://mastodon.social/@kaveh1000>
> *Accelerating the Communication of Research*
> 
> *
> <https://www.linkedin.com/posts/bazargankaveh_ismte-innovation-award-recipient-kaveh-bazargan-activity-7039348552526921728-XAEB/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop>
> [image:
> https://rivervalley.io/gigabyte-wins-the-alpsp-scholarly-publishing-innovation-award-using-river-valleys-publishing-technology/]
> <https://rivervalley.io/gigabyte-wins-the-alpsp-scholarly-publishing-innovation-award-using-river-valleys-publishing-technology/>*
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 07:59:43 -0700
> From: Roger Guay <irog at mac.com>
> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: Re: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs
>   BEYOND 2027!
> Message-ID: <FBBF2716-8A79-4B3B-8DD8-17A054BF188E at mac.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=utf-8
> 
> I too am in the "Clasic Is For Me Crowd?
> 
> - Been here since Metacard
> - Use LC strictly as a hobby
> - LC is extremely important to me as a hobby
> - Have created hundreds of tools, utilities, simulations, fun things just for shear enjoyment and mental exercise
> - Have frequent internet problems that interfere with cloud computing
> - Have participated in every fundraising campagne
> - Frequently contributed to Example Stacks including Alien Civilization Detection simulation
> 
> I beg you, Kevin, don?t take this away from us
> 
> Roger
> 
>> On Aug 2, 2024, at 7:31?AM, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> Everyone I know wants to keep using LC Classic for a while.
>> Most people still want it. Read this list. LC Classic is popular!
>> Launching LC 10 as DOA or a 'lame duck' makes little sense.
>> LC 9 and 10 are still heavily in demand under the old terms.
>> (I'm not against progress; in fact, before Create was announced ...
>> I knew of at least 3 independent next-gen projects for LiveCode.
>> Including my own! None would have cost $ millions, but anyway. :)
>> Make a smoother, friendlier LiveCode transition for best results.)
>> So, how long can we access the bona fide LC 9 and 10 Classic IDEs?
>> Given the widespread demand - Through end of 2028? 2029? 2030?
>> For all those of us who keep existing subscriptions, at least.
>> And maintain LC 10 platform support for that duration.
>> (Old licensing terms for app builds created with them, of course.)
>> Kudos to all those thinking the same thing, and speaking up!
>> Best wishes,
>> Curry Kenworthy
>> Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
>> "PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
>> https://livecodeconsulting.com/
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2024 11:13:05 -0400
> From: jbv at souslelogo.com
> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: Re: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs
>   BEYOND 2027!
> Message-ID: <900b4b3c1e2f090b6a0c7ac6923b6804 at souslelogo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
> 
> Same here.
> 
> I have been into hypertalk since the 1st version of HC.
> 
> I have 2 desktop apps for 2 different clients that I maintain, and in
> each one
> the part developed with LC Classic is just a front end for sending
> requests to
> the server and displaying the incoming data. In both cases 80% of the
> tasks is
> done server side with LC on 2 on-rev accounts.
> I know for certain that none of my clients will accept to pay for
> per-seats
> license.
> 
> So I have 2 options so far :
> - paying myself for these licenses, which I can't afford
> - rewrite the front-end of both apps with html/js and forget about LC.
> 
> jbv
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 15:17:42 +0000
> From: Bob Sneidar <bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com>
> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: Re: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs
>   BEYOND 2027!
> Message-ID: <66C12BFE-0D1D-4FBB-8C9F-EFFCC1CB225A at iotecdigital.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Kevin has clearly made the point that it has become financially untenable to continue with the classic licensing model. You cannot mean that you want him to go bankrupt so that you can maintain your hobby! You are asking him for what he cannot give. It only remains then for all of us to decide what we can and cannot accept.
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
> On Aug 2, 2024, at 7:59 AM, Roger Guay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I too am in the "Clasic Is For Me Crowd?
> 
> - Been here since Metacard
> - Use LC strictly as a hobby
> - LC is extremely important to me as a hobby
> - Have created hundreds of tools, utilities, simulations, fun things just for shear enjoyment and mental exercise
> - Have frequent internet problems that interfere with cloud computing
> - Have participated in every fundraising campagne
> - Frequently contributed to Example Stacks including Alien Civilization Detection simulation
> 
> I beg you, Kevin, don?t take this away from us
> 
> Roger
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 8
> Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2024 11:33:15 -0400
> From: jbv at souslelogo.com
> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: Re: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs
>   BEYOND 2027!
> Message-ID: <95268c465ed573c8adb5cc69916a5435 at souslelogo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> 
> Le 2024-08-02 11:17, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode a ?crit?:
>> You cannot mean that you want him to go bankrupt
> 
> Of course not, but neither me or my clients want to go bankrupt.
> My clients have already paid for the deployment of their apps and they
> are also paying when some cosmetic changes need to be done.
> They don't see why they should also pay for using the apps,
> especially because they work in some niche markets where any
> additional cost is difficult to handle.
> 
> Paying licenses for using Photoshop or dropbox is different,
> because one didn't pay anything for the deployment of those apps.
> I hope I am making myself clear despite my poor english.
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 9
> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 11:35:22 -0400
> From: Mike Kerner <MikeKerner at roadrunner.com>
> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: Re: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs
>   BEYOND 2027!
> Message-ID:
>   <CADCoycOJeJYYzPQLBt00vga06d9xnQRw4Nj+0Ka9Nx2CRay2QA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> 
> as i have previously said, the new pricing ($440 per deployed device) is
> untenable for my companies. we won't pay 4d for their REST licenses (for a
> much more complete product), either.
> we are starting to actively search for alternatives.
> if the pricing does not change to something that is actually reasonable,
> we're out.
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 10
> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 16:57:11 +0100
> From: Heather Laine <heather at livecode.com>
> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: Re: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs
>   BEYOND 2027!
> Message-ID: <166DF444-03E5-4A23-9AE8-8219F0408B5D at livecode.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=us-ascii
> 
> Or you could explain your problem to us directly, as Kevin has asked a couple of times already on this list and we can see what we can do.
> 
> You have an open ticket in support. You have not as yet told me that the new pricing is unaffordable for you.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On 2 Aug 2024, at 16:13, jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> Same here.
>> I have been into hypertalk since the 1st version of HC.
>> I have 2 desktop apps for 2 different clients that I maintain, and in each one
>> the part developed with LC Classic is just a front end for sending requests to
>> the server and displaying the incoming data. In both cases 80% of the tasks is
>> done server side with LC on 2 on-rev accounts.
>> I know for certain that none of my clients will accept to pay for per-seats
>> license.
>> So I have 2 options so far :
>> - paying myself for these licenses, which I can't afford
>> - rewrite the front-end of both apps with html/js and forget about LC.
>> jbv
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 11
> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 16:58:06 +0100
> From: Heather Laine <heather at livecode.com>
> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: Re: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs
>   BEYOND 2027!
> Message-ID: <C787C2B2-0F41-4350-B92C-EE7A74F2676F at livecode.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=us-ascii
> 
> Mike. We asked you to talk to us before the pricing went public. Kevin has reiterated the request that clients with issues get in touch. I once again extend that invitation to you.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On 2 Aug 2024, at 16:35, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> as i have previously said, the new pricing ($440 per deployed device) is
>> untenable for my companies. we won't pay 4d for their REST licenses (for a
>> much more complete product), either.
>> we are starting to actively search for alternatives.
>> if the pricing does not change to something that is actually reasonable,
>> we're out.
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Subject: Digest Footer
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> End of use-livecode Digest, Vol 251, Issue 2
> ********************************************



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Aug  2 12:55:53 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 16:55:53 +0000
Subject: Livecode Future
In-Reply-To: <3B29DBC2-1DC4-4DAA-A835-4EA299B378FC@stallibrass.com>
References: <3B29DBC2-1DC4-4DAA-A835-4EA299B378FC@stallibrass.com>
Message-ID: <2005282E-8BB9-496F-A6AE-2CFBF029EB88@iotecdigital.com>

+1

On Aug 2, 2024, at 9:50 AM, Kevin Stallibrass via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

Retiree’s comments:
I started with runtime revolution v1 when it was included on a PC Pro magazine all those years ago and immediately built my first program which was a neat utility (in 4 languages) which was used by my company. No fee, plenty cudos.

Continued using Runrev over the years to build tools for myself. Cudos from family and friends

Got a commercial licence when I created my only ‘big’ app which worked on PC’s, Macs, Android, & iOS, all talking to a Livecode server. Even included  an iOS push notification server running on Rpi which was featured in the last RevUp newsletter.
Plenty cudos from company, no payment but avoided a redundancy round and got a free holiday for me and my wife in a swanky villa in the Med.

Favorite app was for iPad ( talking to server) which really helped our sales force - and phoned home when they used it.
Super cudos avoiding the next round of redundancies.

When that company finally folded, I reverted back to the community licence and built a few things for myself and family.

Long, boring story I know but the point i’d like to make is that Runrev enabled me to start coding. They supported me through commercial licence and community freebee’s

I’m retired but still grateful for what the Runrev team has enabled me to do. Thanks for your support Kevin and I sincerely hope you get through this change and continue to help people as stupid as myself succeed.



Regards
Kevin Stallibrass
Sent from my iPhone


From heather at livecode.com  Fri Aug  2 13:05:55 2024
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 18:05:55 +0100
Subject: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND 2027!
In-Reply-To: <a816d70fc3bd44cbf951216e730cf6a4@souslelogo.com>
References: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>
 <FBBF2716-8A79-4B3B-8DD8-17A054BF188E@mac.com>
 <900b4b3c1e2f090b6a0c7ac6923b6804@souslelogo.com>
 <166DF444-03E5-4A23-9AE8-8219F0408B5D@livecode.com>
 <a816d70fc3bd44cbf951216e730cf6a4@souslelogo.com>
Message-ID: <426E35CC-7162-4172-B48F-33F2F371186A@livecode.com>

Well lets discuss that. Off list.

I'm done for the weekend now and we have a holiday on Monday in Scotland, so I'lll come back to you on Tuesday with some thoughts.

Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 2 Aug 2024, at 17:47, jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Heather,
> 
> I know you suggested a zoom meeting before announcing the new pricing plans, but
> we were unable to proceed, mainly because I was really busy with the server transfer
> for our on-rev accounts and all the troubles it caused to my clients with their apps
> and all the little adjustments that needed to be made.
> Besides I needed to check how my clients would react to the new pricing plans before
> making any decision, and only 2 days ago I was able to find the time to check how
> much it really meant.
> Last but not least, it is very nice of you to offer the possibility of a workaround,
> but I guess any solution will only be a short-term one, and I need a solution for
> the many years to come.
> 
> jbv
> 
> Le 2024-08-02 11:57, Heather Laine via use-livecode a écrit :
>> Or you could explain your problem to us directly, as Kevin has asked a couple of times already on this list and we can see what we can do.
>> You have an open ticket in support. You have not as yet told me that the new pricing is unaffordable for you.
>> Best Regards,
>> Heather
>> Heather Laine
>> Customer Services Manager
>> LiveCode Ltd
>> www.livecode.com
>>> On 2 Aug 2024, at 16:13, jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> Same here.
>>> I have been into hypertalk since the 1st version of HC.
>>> I have 2 desktop apps for 2 different clients that I maintain, and in each one
>>> the part developed with LC Classic is just a front end for sending requests to
>>> the server and displaying the incoming data. In both cases 80% of the tasks is
>>> done server side with LC on 2 on-rev accounts.
>>> I know for certain that none of my clients will accept to pay for per-seats
>>> license.
>>> So I have 2 options so far :
>>> - paying myself for these licenses, which I can't afford
>>> - rewrite the front-end of both apps with html/js and forget about LC.
>>> jbv
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From heather at livecode.com  Fri Aug  2 13:10:15 2024
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 18:10:15 +0100
Subject: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND 2027!
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycPo9Z53HkYD3Tz0zwJDDVytdnz2=UVKAfjY_hF0Bck-yg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>
 <FBBF2716-8A79-4B3B-8DD8-17A054BF188E@mac.com>
 <66C12BFE-0D1D-4FBB-8C9F-EFFCC1CB225A@iotecdigital.com>
 <952B8915-8D46-435A-92D8-F0D6A7EF21EF@mac.com>
 <CADCoycPo9Z53HkYD3Tz0zwJDDVytdnz2=UVKAfjY_hF0Bck-yg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2EE82B11-A48B-409C-91D2-DAB7A7659776@livecode.com>

I understand busy. Sometimes we are so busy chopping down trees we cannot see the wood.

You have a specific situation. The people on this list cannot help you resolve it. Talking about it on this list and indeed reading the long conversations on this list is using up your precious time. Maybe taking half an hour to talk about it direct with us would resolve it and potentially save you... I have no idea how long rewriting your apps. 

But its entirely up to you.

Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 2 Aug 2024, at 17:21, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> heather, as i told you, at the time, i am busy running multiple companies.
> i don't have time for pitches.
> i asked for you to send me the information so that i could review it, ahead
> of a call. that request was declined.
> if the pricing remains untenable, we will be rewriting apps and exiting.
> 
> 
> On Fri, Aug 2, 2024 at 12:01 PM Roger Guay via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> If this is the conclusion that you come to, then I failed to make my case.
>> Sorry!
>> 
>> I thank Kevin for keeping this amazing tool going for so many years and
>> want him to succeed in the future.
>> 
>> Roger
>> 
>>> On Aug 2, 2024, at 8:17 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> You cannot mean that you want him to go bankrupt so that you can
>> maintain your hobby!
>> 
>> 
>>> On Aug 2, 2024, at 8:17 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Kevin has clearly made the point that it has become financially
>> untenable to continue with the classic licensing model. You cannot mean
>> that you want him to go bankrupt so that you can maintain your hobby! You
>> are asking him for what he cannot give. It only remains then for all of us
>> to decide what we can and cannot accept.
>>> 
>>> Bob S
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Aug 2, 2024, at 7:59 AM, Roger Guay via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I too am in the "Clasic Is For Me Crowd”
>>> 
>>> - Been here since Metacard
>>> - Use LC strictly as a hobby
>>> - LC is extremely important to me as a hobby
>>> - Have created hundreds of tools, utilities, simulations, fun things
>> just for shear enjoyment and mental exercise
>>> - Have frequent internet problems that interfere with cloud computing
>>> - Have participated in every fundraising campagne
>>> - Frequently contributed to Example Stacks including Alien Civilization
>> Detection simulation
>>> 
>>> I beg you, Kevin, don’t take this away from us
>>> 
>>> Roger
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>   and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Aug  2 13:20:54 2024
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2024 12:20:54 -0500
Subject: Individual licensing questions
In-Reply-To: <DE13B361-EC9A-4646-BF11-29E956E6045F@exformedia.se>
References: <7F21E930-DFAB-4041-A7E2-C0B4ADB70DC2@livecode.com>
 <190f003b830.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <DE13B361-EC9A-4646-BF11-29E956E6045F@exformedia.se>
Message-ID: <191141bd4f0.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

I don't think so. These apps are bespoke apps (a lovely word not seen often 
in the US.) This from the FAQ:

"I create apps for other companies and sell services to those companies as 
a consultancy service to create them"
"You need one license for each developer of the app. The company you 
developed the software for needs an Internal app license for each user if 
the app is used internally."

On the other hand, a single retired user is not a company. When the time 
comes I will contact LC support. We have 3 years to decide.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On August 2, 2024 11:15:59 AM Hkan Liljegren via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hmm, wouldnt this count in the other tier as you sell your app, thus you 
> should pay 5% of $75? $3.75
>
> :-Hkan
>
>> 26 juli 2024 kl. 19:08 skrev J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>
>> I hope this is generic enough.
>>
>> I have several clients who use apps I created just for them, 20 years ago 
>> or more. Frequently these are converted HyperCard stacks like address books 
>> or recipe files. The apps are personal and no one else uses them. Every 2 
>> or 3 years they contact me because the app stops working, usually due to an 
>> incompatible OS update. I recompile the app, and sometimes make a few 
>> requested tweaks. Since a compile takes only a few minutes, and because I 
>> know these people personally, I charge almost nothing for these services. 
>> My last invoice for a rebuild and a minor change was $75.
>>
>> I do not want to tell them that they will need to spend hundreds of dollars 
>> more for a one time minor update. They will not want a subscription because 
>> it's years between changes. And because they are not companies and many are 
>> now retired, paying hundreds of dollars to maintain an address book is not 
>> feasible. I am very sensitive to their budget requirements.
>>
>> I'd like to propose a floor under which no royalty or subscription is 
>> required. A minimum charge of, say, $500 would yield $25 to LC at the 5% 
>> rate. A charge of $1000 would yield $50.
>>
>> --
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>> On July 26, 2024 6:04:30 AM Kevin Miller via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Folks, I'm happy to go on discussing the licensing model in general on here 
>>> as needed, for example edge cases or things that arent clear in the model, 
>>> as it helps us to hone it. But at this point if you have individual 
>>> questions about the costs for you under the new model, please email them to 
>>> support and we can give you an accurate quote and talk you through your 
>>> options. Otherwise we are going to be going over the same territory here on 
>>> the list for some time to come! Well build out the information pages some 
>>> more worked examples next week too. Thanks.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Kevin
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Kevin Miller ~ kevin at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
>>>
>>> LiveCode: Build Amazing Things
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Fri Aug  2 13:34:11 2024
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 13:34:11 -0400
Subject: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND 2027!
In-Reply-To: <2EE82B11-A48B-409C-91D2-DAB7A7659776@livecode.com>
References: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>
 <FBBF2716-8A79-4B3B-8DD8-17A054BF188E@mac.com>
 <66C12BFE-0D1D-4FBB-8C9F-EFFCC1CB225A@iotecdigital.com>
 <952B8915-8D46-435A-92D8-F0D6A7EF21EF@mac.com>
 <CADCoycPo9Z53HkYD3Tz0zwJDDVytdnz2=UVKAfjY_hF0Bck-yg@mail.gmail.com>
 <2EE82B11-A48B-409C-91D2-DAB7A7659776@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycNnG5bNL_GG7z6eB7VkQ3Z45fANBNrjirxQkWwvhUVGEA@mail.gmail.com>

sunlight is the greatest disinfectant.
these are conversations that should be held in the open.

On Fri, Aug 2, 2024 at 1:10 PM Heather Laine via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I understand busy. Sometimes we are so busy chopping down trees we cannot
> see the wood.
>
> You have a specific situation. The people on this list cannot help you
> resolve it. Talking about it on this list and indeed reading the long
> conversations on this list is using up your precious time. Maybe taking
> half an hour to talk about it direct with us would resolve it and
> potentially save you... I have no idea how long rewriting your apps.
>
> But its entirely up to you.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Heather
>
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
>
>
>
> > On 2 Aug 2024, at 17:21, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > heather, as i told you, at the time, i am busy running multiple
> companies.
> > i don't have time for pitches.
> > i asked for you to send me the information so that i could review it,
> ahead
> > of a call. that request was declined.
> > if the pricing remains untenable, we will be rewriting apps and exiting.
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 2, 2024 at 12:01 PM Roger Guay via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >> If this is the conclusion that you come to, then I failed to make my
> case.
> >> Sorry!
> >>
> >> I thank Kevin for keeping this amazing tool going for so many years and
> >> want him to succeed in the future.
> >>
> >> Roger
> >>
> >>> On Aug 2, 2024, at 8:17 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> You cannot mean that you want him to go bankrupt so that you can
> >> maintain your hobby!
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Aug 2, 2024, at 8:17 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Kevin has clearly made the point that it has become financially
> >> untenable to continue with the classic licensing model. You cannot mean
> >> that you want him to go bankrupt so that you can maintain your hobby!
> You
> >> are asking him for what he cannot give. It only remains then for all of
> us
> >> to decide what we can and cannot accept.
> >>>
> >>> Bob S
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Aug 2, 2024, at 7:59 AM, Roger Guay via use-livecode <
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I too am in the "Clasic Is For Me Crowd”
> >>>
> >>> - Been here since Metacard
> >>> - Use LC strictly as a hobby
> >>> - LC is extremely important to me as a hobby
> >>> - Have created hundreds of tools, utilities, simulations, fun things
> >> just for shear enjoyment and mental exercise
> >>> - Have frequent internet problems that interfere with cloud computing
> >>> - Have participated in every fundraising campagne
> >>> - Frequently contributed to Example Stacks including Alien Civilization
> >> Detection simulation
> >>>
> >>> I beg you, Kevin, don’t take this away from us
> >>>
> >>> Roger
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> use-livecode mailing list
> >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
> >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> > On the second day, God created the oceans.
> > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
> >   and did a little diving.
> > And God said, "This is good."
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From heather at livecode.com  Fri Aug  2 13:45:18 2024
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 18:45:18 +0100
Subject: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND 2027!
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycNnG5bNL_GG7z6eB7VkQ3Z45fANBNrjirxQkWwvhUVGEA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>
 <FBBF2716-8A79-4B3B-8DD8-17A054BF188E@mac.com>
 <66C12BFE-0D1D-4FBB-8C9F-EFFCC1CB225A@iotecdigital.com>
 <952B8915-8D46-435A-92D8-F0D6A7EF21EF@mac.com>
 <CADCoycPo9Z53HkYD3Tz0zwJDDVytdnz2=UVKAfjY_hF0Bck-yg@mail.gmail.com>
 <2EE82B11-A48B-409C-91D2-DAB7A7659776@livecode.com>
 <CADCoycNnG5bNL_GG7z6eB7VkQ3Z45fANBNrjirxQkWwvhUVGEA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2886F419-5616-4935-9534-3AF9A8E18B74@livecode.com>

I don't know what you think we are trying to hide.

Do you want to discuss your annual takings on this list? Or the number and needs of your clients? I don't think its relevant to the readers here nor any of their business. We've explained the new licensing, exhaustively. We've said we want to help existing customers. We've said there is a program to help you migrate, on a case by case basis. 

If you want to take us up on that, please do. If not, well  that is your decision. 

Please take this off list. This thread is not helpful and its time for it to stop.

Best Regards,

Heather
List mom. On the Use LiveCode list.


Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 2 Aug 2024, at 18:34, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> sunlight is the greatest disinfectant.
> these are conversations that should be held in the open.
> 
> On Fri, Aug 2, 2024 at 1:10 PM Heather Laine via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> I understand busy. Sometimes we are so busy chopping down trees we cannot
>> see the wood.
>> 
>> You have a specific situation. The people on this list cannot help you
>> resolve it. Talking about it on this list and indeed reading the long
>> conversations on this list is using up your precious time. Maybe taking
>> half an hour to talk about it direct with us would resolve it and
>> potentially save you... I have no idea how long rewriting your apps.
>> 
>> But its entirely up to you.
>> 
>> Best Regards,
>> 
>> Heather
>> 
>> Heather Laine
>> Customer Services Manager
>> LiveCode Ltd
>> www.livecode.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 2 Aug 2024, at 17:21, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> heather, as i told you, at the time, i am busy running multiple
>> companies.
>>> i don't have time for pitches.
>>> i asked for you to send me the information so that i could review it,
>> ahead
>>> of a call. that request was declined.
>>> if the pricing remains untenable, we will be rewriting apps and exiting.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Aug 2, 2024 at 12:01 PM Roger Guay via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> If this is the conclusion that you come to, then I failed to make my
>> case.
>>>> Sorry!
>>>> 
>>>> I thank Kevin for keeping this amazing tool going for so many years and
>>>> want him to succeed in the future.
>>>> 
>>>> Roger
>>>> 
>>>>> On Aug 2, 2024, at 8:17 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> You cannot mean that you want him to go bankrupt so that you can
>>>> maintain your hobby!
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Aug 2, 2024, at 8:17 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Kevin has clearly made the point that it has become financially
>>>> untenable to continue with the classic licensing model. You cannot mean
>>>> that you want him to go bankrupt so that you can maintain your hobby!
>> You
>>>> are asking him for what he cannot give. It only remains then for all of
>> us
>>>> to decide what we can and cannot accept.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bob S
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Aug 2, 2024, at 7:59 AM, Roger Guay via use-livecode <
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I too am in the "Clasic Is For Me Crowd”
>>>>> 
>>>>> - Been here since Metacard
>>>>> - Use LC strictly as a hobby
>>>>> - LC is extremely important to me as a hobby
>>>>> - Have created hundreds of tools, utilities, simulations, fun things
>>>> just for shear enjoyment and mental exercise
>>>>> - Have frequent internet problems that interfere with cloud computing
>>>>> - Have participated in every fundraising campagne
>>>>> - Frequently contributed to Example Stacks including Alien Civilization
>>>> Detection simulation
>>>>> 
>>>>> I beg you, Kevin, don’t take this away from us
>>>>> 
>>>>> Roger
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
>>> On the second day, God created the oceans.
>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>>>  and did a little diving.
>>> And God said, "This is good."
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>   and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Aug  2 14:04:49 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 18:04:49 +0000
Subject: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND 2027!
In-Reply-To: <2886F419-5616-4935-9534-3AF9A8E18B74@livecode.com>
References: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>
 <FBBF2716-8A79-4B3B-8DD8-17A054BF188E@mac.com>
 <66C12BFE-0D1D-4FBB-8C9F-EFFCC1CB225A@iotecdigital.com>
 <952B8915-8D46-435A-92D8-F0D6A7EF21EF@mac.com>
 <CADCoycPo9Z53HkYD3Tz0zwJDDVytdnz2=UVKAfjY_hF0Bck-yg@mail.gmail.com>
 <2EE82B11-A48B-409C-91D2-DAB7A7659776@livecode.com>
 <CADCoycNnG5bNL_GG7z6eB7VkQ3Z45fANBNrjirxQkWwvhUVGEA@mail.gmail.com>
 <2886F419-5616-4935-9534-3AF9A8E18B74@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <AF335E88-F300-4B36-80B4-6BA333455A68@iotecdigital.com>

Yup. +100

> On Aug 2, 2024, at 10:45 AM, Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I don't know what you think we are trying to hide.
> 
> Do you want to discuss your annual takings on this list? Or the number and needs of your clients? I don't think its relevant to the readers here nor any of their business. We've explained the new licensing, exhaustively. We've said we want to help existing customers. We've said there is a program to help you migrate, on a case by case basis. 
> 
> If you want to take us up on that, please do. If not, well  that is your decision. 
> 
> Please take this off list. This thread is not helpful and its time for it to stop.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> List mom. On the Use LiveCode list.
> 
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On 2 Aug 2024, at 18:34, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> sunlight is the greatest disinfectant.
>> these are conversations that should be held in the open.
>> 
>> On Fri, Aug 2, 2024 at 1:10 PM Heather Laine via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I understand busy. Sometimes we are so busy chopping down trees we cannot
>>> see the wood.
>>> 
>>> You have a specific situation. The people on this list cannot help you
>>> resolve it. Talking about it on this list and indeed reading the long
>>> conversations on this list is using up your precious time. Maybe taking
>>> half an hour to talk about it direct with us would resolve it and
>>> potentially save you... I have no idea how long rewriting your apps.
>>> 
>>> But its entirely up to you.
>>> 
>>> Best Regards,
>>> 
>>> Heather
>>> 
>>> Heather Laine
>>> Customer Services Manager
>>> LiveCode Ltd
>>> www.livecode.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 2 Aug 2024, at 17:21, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> heather, as i told you, at the time, i am busy running multiple
>>> companies.
>>>> i don't have time for pitches.
>>>> i asked for you to send me the information so that i could review it,
>>> ahead
>>>> of a call. that request was declined.
>>>> if the pricing remains untenable, we will be rewriting apps and exiting.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Fri, Aug 2, 2024 at 12:01 PM Roger Guay via use-livecode <
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> If this is the conclusion that you come to, then I failed to make my
>>> case.
>>>>> Sorry!
>>>>> 
>>>>> I thank Kevin for keeping this amazing tool going for so many years and
>>>>> want him to succeed in the future.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Roger
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Aug 2, 2024, at 8:17 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> You cannot mean that you want him to go bankrupt so that you can
>>>>> maintain your hobby!
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Aug 2, 2024, at 8:17 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Kevin has clearly made the point that it has become financially
>>>>> untenable to continue with the classic licensing model. You cannot mean
>>>>> that you want him to go bankrupt so that you can maintain your hobby!
>>> You
>>>>> are asking him for what he cannot give. It only remains then for all of
>>> us
>>>>> to decide what we can and cannot accept.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Bob S
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Aug 2, 2024, at 7:59 AM, Roger Guay via use-livecode <
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I too am in the "Clasic Is For Me Crowd”
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> - Been here since Metacard
>>>>>> - Use LC strictly as a hobby
>>>>>> - LC is extremely important to me as a hobby
>>>>>> - Have created hundreds of tools, utilities, simulations, fun things
>>>>> just for shear enjoyment and mental exercise
>>>>>> - Have frequent internet problems that interfere with cloud computing
>>>>>> - Have participated in every fundraising campagne
>>>>>> - Frequently contributed to Example Stacks including Alien Civilization
>>>>> Detection simulation
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I beg you, Kevin, don’t take this away from us
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Roger
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
>>>> On the second day, God created the oceans.
>>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>>>> and did a little diving.
>>>> And God said, "This is good."
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
>> On the second day, God created the oceans.
>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>>  and did a little diving.
>> And God said, "This is good."
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From paul at researchware.com  Fri Aug  2 15:18:09 2024
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 15:18:09 -0400
Subject: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND 2027!
In-Reply-To: <AF335E88-F300-4B36-80B4-6BA333455A68@iotecdigital.com>
References: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>
 <FBBF2716-8A79-4B3B-8DD8-17A054BF188E@mac.com>
 <66C12BFE-0D1D-4FBB-8C9F-EFFCC1CB225A@iotecdigital.com>
 <952B8915-8D46-435A-92D8-F0D6A7EF21EF@mac.com>
 <CADCoycPo9Z53HkYD3Tz0zwJDDVytdnz2=UVKAfjY_hF0Bck-yg@mail.gmail.com>
 <2EE82B11-A48B-409C-91D2-DAB7A7659776@livecode.com>
 <CADCoycNnG5bNL_GG7z6eB7VkQ3Z45fANBNrjirxQkWwvhUVGEA@mail.gmail.com>
 <2886F419-5616-4935-9534-3AF9A8E18B74@livecode.com>
 <AF335E88-F300-4B36-80B4-6BA333455A68@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <ba1e89d0-3537-498d-a38a-7f4acd5d17ad@researchware.com>

+100 also

On 8/2/2024 2:04 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
> Yup. +100
>
>> On Aug 2, 2024, at 10:45 AM, Heather Laine via use-livecode<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>  wrote:
>>
>> Please take this off list. This thread is not helpful and its time for it to stop.
>>
>>

From curry at pair.com  Mon Aug  5 19:51:04 2024
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2024 19:51:04 -0400
Subject: FAQ Clarification: Which end of 2027?
Message-ID: <d07730d4-17c3-47b5-99cb-1bb28726fc27@pair.com>

The current FAQ says:

- 'When are you ending support for LiveCode Classic? ... we will
maintain compatibility with supported operating systems until 2027.'

That wording is ambiguous. As Ben said:

 > is that Jan 1 2027, or Dec 31 2027?

That is significant - A difference of an entire year!
Can we get a clarification on that?

(This is a general, widely relevant fact in a public FAQ;
it is not only a personal and private account-specific issue.
I may indeed have account-specific or personal case follow-ups,
but it helps, and is standard, to have clear general facts first!)

All other references I see use similar wording:

- 'we haven't changed the licensing for the existing platform which you
can continue to use on the same terms up until its end of life in 2027.'

- 'If you have a current LiveCode license,
LiveCode Classic will continue until 2027'

(This is not a Classic vs Create topic. I enjoyed everyone's views.)

I hope all had a great weekend! :)

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
"PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
https://livecodeconsulting.com/


From tom at makeshyft.com  Mon Aug  5 20:45:00 2024
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2024 20:45:00 -0400
Subject: FAQ Clarification: Which end of 2027?
In-Reply-To: <d07730d4-17c3-47b5-99cb-1bb28726fc27@pair.com>
References: <d07730d4-17c3-47b5-99cb-1bb28726fc27@pair.com>
Message-ID: <CAPzQJL+ZfP17sU0s-kvz5v_n=QrwLz_wWhOVVEbF32WH8xgMyw@mail.gmail.com>

Maybe its your renewal date in 2027, whichever day it falls on.

On Mon, Aug 5, 2024 at 7:52 PM Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> The current FAQ says:
>
> - 'When are you ending support for LiveCode Classic? ... we will
> maintain compatibility with supported operating systems until 2027.'
>
> That wording is ambiguous. As Ben said:
>
>  > is that Jan 1 2027, or Dec 31 2027?
>
> That is significant - A difference of an entire year!
> Can we get a clarification on that?
>
> (This is a general, widely relevant fact in a public FAQ;
> it is not only a personal and private account-specific issue.
> I may indeed have account-specific or personal case follow-ups,
> but it helps, and is standard, to have clear general facts first!)
>
> All other references I see use similar wording:
>
> - 'we haven't changed the licensing for the existing platform which you
> can continue to use on the same terms up until its end of life in 2027.'
>
> - 'If you have a current LiveCode license,
> LiveCode Classic will continue until 2027'
>
> (This is not a Classic vs Create topic. I enjoyed everyone's views.)
>
> I hope all had a great weekend! :)
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Curry Kenworthy
>
> Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
> "PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
> https://livecodeconsulting.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From dfe4 at cornell.edu  Tue Aug  6 14:20:33 2024
From: dfe4 at cornell.edu (David Epstein)
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2024 14:20:33 -0400
Subject: Making controls less subtle
Message-ID: <3E51E333-A74A-4029-BC4A-813A5465503D@cornell.edu>

On my Mac, some LiveCode (10.0rc1) controls seem to me much too subtle, light gray where I would like there to be a distinct black line.  The  “slider” control looks to me as if it is disabled (although if I actually disable it, it gets even dimmer).  And the circle of the radio button, the rounded rectangle of a check box button, and the edges of an option button have this same light gray color.

Is there some way to change this?  

David Epstein


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Tue Aug  6 15:26:20 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2024 19:26:20 +0000
Subject: Making controls less subtle
In-Reply-To: <3E51E333-A74A-4029-BC4A-813A5465503D@cornell.edu>
References: <3E51E333-A74A-4029-BC4A-813A5465503D@cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <B3A1E1C1-44E1-4DFB-A8F4-0E92E179C73B@iotecdigital.com>

With the Widgets, probably not. They are supposed to comply with the interface standards of your OS, so if running Windows, try using a high contrast window setting, but you won’t like it. 

Bob S

> On Aug 6, 2024, at 11:20 AM, David Epstein via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> On my Mac, some LiveCode (10.0rc1) controls seem to me much too subtle, light gray where I would like there to be a distinct black line.  The  “slider” control looks to me as if it is disabled (although if I actually disable it, it gets even dimmer).  And the circle of the radio button, the rounded rectangle of a check box button, and the edges of an option button have this same light gray color.
> 
> Is there some way to change this?  
> 
> David Epstein
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From kevin at livecode.com  Wed Aug  7 05:12:25 2024
From: kevin at livecode.com (Kevin Miller)
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2024 10:12:25 +0100
Subject: FAQ Clarification: Which end of 2027?
In-Reply-To: <d07730d4-17c3-47b5-99cb-1bb28726fc27@pair.com>
References: <d07730d4-17c3-47b5-99cb-1bb28726fc27@pair.com>
Message-ID: <801446DC-D963-415A-A917-ED7088D91F73@livecode.com>

I don't have any more information on the date in 2027 yet. It’s a long way off. Let's see how many of you are actually still using it at that point and truly haven't moved and how well we've done from Create - i.e. what we can afford.

Kind regards, 

Kevin 

Kevin Miller ~ kevin at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ 
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things 




On 06/08/2024, 00:51, "use-livecode on behalf of Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode" <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> on behalf of use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:


The current FAQ says:


- 'When are you ending support for LiveCode Classic? ... we will
maintain compatibility with supported operating systems until 2027.'


That wording is ambiguous. As Ben said:


> is that Jan 1 2027, or Dec 31 2027?


That is significant - A difference of an entire year!
Can we get a clarification on that?


(This is a general, widely relevant fact in a public FAQ;
it is not only a personal and private account-specific issue.
I may indeed have account-specific or personal case follow-ups,
but it helps, and is standard, to have clear general facts first!)


All other references I see use similar wording:


- 'we haven't changed the licensing for the existing platform which you
can continue to use on the same terms up until its end of life in 2027.'


- 'If you have a current LiveCode license,
LiveCode Classic will continue until 2027'


(This is not a Classic vs Create topic. I enjoyed everyone's views.)


I hope all had a great weekend! :)


Best wishes,


Curry Kenworthy


Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
"PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
https://livecodeconsulting.com/ <https://livecodeconsulting.com/>


_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
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From kevin at livecode.com  Wed Aug  7 05:12:27 2024
From: kevin at livecode.com (Kevin Miller)
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2024 10:12:27 +0100
Subject: Open Letter to Community
Message-ID: <C4D3B07F-3015-47E5-91DF-129E50ABB3B1@livecode.com>

Hi folks,

 

Some of you will have seen this as it went out by email yesterday. However I know for whatever reason not all of you get our emails so I’m going to post this here for those that haven’t seen it. I think it’s important to set the record straight.

 

https://livecode.com/an-open-letter-to-the-community/

 

I don’t mind a little bit of feedback on this if you want to share it but after that I think we need to get back to discussing how to use the product on this list and move licensing discussions to direct contact.

 

Kind regards,

 

Kevin

 

Kevin Miller ~ kevin at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/

LiveCode: Build Amazing Things

 


From curry at pair.com  Wed Aug  7 07:29:21 2024
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2024 07:29:21 -0400
Subject: Open Letter to Community - 22nd August deadline?
In-Reply-To: <C4D3B07F-3015-47E5-91DF-129E50ABB3B1@livecode.com>
References: <C4D3B07F-3015-47E5-91DF-129E50ABB3B1@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <32f7aacd-39ce-4118-9740-cea41554296c@pair.com>

Kevin -

I'm glad you posted this; I was going to mention it here, because -

'We will continue to work with the rest of you to get something that
can work for both of us. Please get in touch during transition
period, i.e. prior to 22nd August.'

Clarification -

Is 22nd August a deadline for transition issue questions and requests?
If so, I don't think people will notice, without it in a subject line!

It's very short notice for a deadline - if it is one?

(I sent extra questions to support after seeing that,
but rushing is difficult, and may cause confusion -
Some questions or requests depend on answers to other questions!)

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
"PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
https://livecodeconsulting.com/


From paul at researchware.com  Wed Aug  7 12:04:42 2024
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2024 12:04:42 -0400
Subject: Best way to convert color values
Message-ID: <70c1aa0b-489b-4c21-98f4-696de79f98b8@researchware.com>

You have RGB colors (0-255,0-255,0-255), Hex colors (#000000 - #FFFFFF) 
and named colors ("blue") in Livecode

Any built in way (via some trick) to convert between color value formats?

I can always write a routine to convert RGB to Hex and Hex to RGB, but I 
am wondering if there is some clever trick in Livecode to do this.

For example: answer color -- returns RGB, but the htmlText of a line 
wants <p bgcolor="#NNNNNN"> </p>

Thanks in advance,


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Wed Aug  7 12:14:02 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2024 16:14:02 +0000
Subject: Best way to convert color values
In-Reply-To: <70c1aa0b-489b-4c21-98f4-696de79f98b8@researchware.com>
References: <70c1aa0b-489b-4c21-98f4-696de79f98b8@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <03D070ED-D321-48BA-8F4F-037B9150E07D@iotecdigital.com>

I found a private function in the Quartam PDF Library. I don’t want to post it here because I don’t know the licensing. I believe it was a purchased product. If you have it you can probably find it. Otherwise it shouldn’t be too difficult to do the math. 

Bob S


> On Aug 7, 2024, at 9:04 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> You have RGB colors (0-255,0-255,0-255), Hex colors (#000000 - #FFFFFF) and named colors ("blue") in Livecode
> 
> Any built in way (via some trick) to convert between color value formats?
> 
> I can always write a routine to convert RGB to Hex and Hex to RGB, but I am wondering if there is some clever trick in Livecode to do this.
> 
> For example: answer color -- returns RGB, but the htmlText of a line wants <p bgcolor="#NNNNNN"> </p>
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From craig at starfirelighting.com  Wed Aug  7 12:16:37 2024
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2024 12:16:37 -0400
Subject: Best way to convert color values
In-Reply-To: <70c1aa0b-489b-4c21-98f4-696de79f98b8@researchware.com>
References: <70c1aa0b-489b-4c21-98f4-696de79f98b8@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <20181D55-F300-4EA8-BD2B-F5FA7070C677@starfirelighting.com>

Hi.

If Paul’s post is not viable, I don’t think there is any native gadget (like “convert”) that applies to the different color formats. Fairly simple to roll your own, depending on how comprehensive you need it.

Craig

> On Aug 7, 2024, at 12:04 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> You have RGB colors (0-255,0-255,0-255), Hex colors (#000000 - #FFFFFF) and named colors ("blue") in Livecode
> 
> Any built in way (via some trick) to convert between color value formats?
> 
> I can always write a routine to convert RGB to Hex and Hex to RGB, but I am wondering if there is some clever trick in Livecode to do this.
> 
> For example: answer color -- returns RGB, but the htmlText of a line wants <p bgcolor="#NNNNNN"> </p>
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com  Wed Aug  7 12:24:31 2024
From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2024 18:24:31 +0200
Subject: Best way to convert color values
In-Reply-To: <20181D55-F300-4EA8-BD2B-F5FA7070C677@starfirelighting.com>
References: <70c1aa0b-489b-4c21-98f4-696de79f98b8@researchware.com>
 <20181D55-F300-4EA8-BD2B-F5FA7070C677@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <CAGu-FtbvwGNt3B=ETcsUpmvrNJHuGHPfgqZ5E8N22ngjFff_Ow@mail.gmail.com>

No need to reinvent that particular wheel when the awesome guys at
FerrusLogic has had us covered for years:
https://github.com/Ferruslogic/TinyColor

/Andreas

ons 7 aug. 2024 kl. 18:18 skrev Craig Newman via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:

> Hi.
>
> If Paul’s post is not viable, I don’t think there is any native gadget
> (like “convert”) that applies to the different color formats. Fairly simple
> to roll your own, depending on how comprehensive you need it.
>
> Craig
>
> > On Aug 7, 2024, at 12:04 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > You have RGB colors (0-255,0-255,0-255), Hex colors (#000000 - #FFFFFF)
> and named colors ("blue") in Livecode
> >
> > Any built in way (via some trick) to convert between color value formats?
> >
> > I can always write a routine to convert RGB to Hex and Hex to RGB, but I
> am wondering if there is some clever trick in Livecode to do this.
> >
> > For example: answer color -- returns RGB, but the htmlText of a line
> wants <p bgcolor="#NNNNNN"> </p>
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Wed Aug  7 12:30:26 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2024 16:30:26 +0000
Subject: Best way to convert color values
In-Reply-To: <70c1aa0b-489b-4c21-98f4-696de79f98b8@researchware.com>
References: <70c1aa0b-489b-4c21-98f4-696de79f98b8@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <DD251D8C-5C73-400B-B016-6A1095CEC6A2@iotecdigital.com>

Also https://dev.to/hichem-mg/comprehensive-guide-converting-rgb-color-to-hex-code-2fcb

Google is your friend. :-)

Bob S


On Aug 7, 2024, at 9:04 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

You have RGB colors (0-255,0-255,0-255), Hex colors (#000000 - #FFFFFF) and named colors ("blue") in Livecode

Any built in way (via some trick) to convert between color value formats?

I can always write a routine to convert RGB to Hex and Hex to RGB, but I am wondering if there is some clever trick in Livecode to do this.

For example: answer color -- returns RGB, but the htmlText of a line wants <p bgcolor="#NNNNNN"> </p>

Thanks in advance,

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From paul at researchware.com  Wed Aug  7 12:33:19 2024
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2024 12:33:19 -0400
Subject: Best way to convert color values
In-Reply-To: <CAGu-FtbvwGNt3B=ETcsUpmvrNJHuGHPfgqZ5E8N22ngjFff_Ow@mail.gmail.com>
References: <70c1aa0b-489b-4c21-98f4-696de79f98b8@researchware.com>
 <20181D55-F300-4EA8-BD2B-F5FA7070C677@starfirelighting.com>
 <CAGu-FtbvwGNt3B=ETcsUpmvrNJHuGHPfgqZ5E8N22ngjFff_Ow@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <484fe9fd-a6a6-40d1-a9c1-9a9168ae612a@researchware.com>

Wow Andreas!

You win on the best response!

A free library of 70 color functions is way more than I need (but will 
likely need more than I think I do)

Thank you.

On 8/7/2024 12:24 PM, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode wrote:
> No need to reinvent that particular wheel when the awesome guys at
> FerrusLogic has had us covered for years:
> https://github.com/Ferruslogic/TinyColor
>
> /Andreas
>
> ons 7 aug. 2024 kl. 18:18 skrev Craig Newman via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>
>> Hi.
>>
>> If Pauls post is not viable, I dont think there is any native gadget
>> (like convert) that applies to the different color formats. Fairly simple
>> to roll your own, depending on how comprehensive you need it.
>>
>> Craig
>>
>>> On Aug 7, 2024, at 12:04 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> You have RGB colors (0-255,0-255,0-255), Hex colors (#000000 - #FFFFFF)
>> and named colors ("blue") in Livecode
>>> Any built in way (via some trick) to convert between color value formats?
>>>
>>> I can always write a routine to convert RGB to Hex and Hex to RGB, but I
>> am wondering if there is some clever trick in Livecode to do this.
>>> For example: answer color -- returns RGB, but the htmlText of a line
>> wants <p bgcolor="#NNNNNN"> </p>
>>> Thanks in advance,
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From paul at researchware.com  Wed Aug  7 13:47:12 2024
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2024 13:47:12 -0400
Subject: Cell colorization in a table in Livecode...
Message-ID: <8fb662aa-fdd5-4d58-b34f-46649a6c0682@researchware.com>

My second color question of the day.

We current have a analytical view in our app which shows a table of 
frequencies. The number of rows and columns are driven by user data and 
can becomes a large number (I've heard all the arguments that users 
should not ever view tables of hundreds of rows by hundreds of columns 
as a person can't digest that much data - and our customer are quite 
clear that they want to view such data in this fashion).

We currently use a Datagrid. Each cell has a numerical integer value, 
0-n. We want to colorize the cells on a gradient, say from white to 
green (as an example) which we'd map the gradient colors with 0 being 
white and max(N) being green and color each cell accordingly.

This can be done relatively easily in the Datagrid by a small bit of 
custom code that looks at the cell value and sets the background color 
of the field (that is the cell) to the appropriate color.

We have been migrating all uses of Datagrids to Polygrids where the 
columns are driven by user data since the number of columns could exceed 
roughly 300, which at the default column width,  bumps up against the 
32,767 pixel width limit of the Datagrid. The Polygrid does not have 
this width limit, which is why we've been replacing Datagrids with 
Polygrids.

Now, our current problem is that there does not appear to be any tricks 
to having variable cell background colors in a Polygrid. Row colors: yes 
Alternate Row colors: Yes, Highlight color: Yes, possibly even 
highlighting different cell via the pgHilitedData property: maybe 
(haven't tested yet, but they'd all be 1 color).

I am not really familiar with the PolyList widget (vs PolyGrid). Has 
anyone figured out how to do a spreadsheet-like table in either the 
PolyGrid or PolyList with individual cell background coloring?

If not, I'll stick with the Datagrid and add a check for the columns x 
widths exceeding the 32K px threshold and just warn the researcher we 
can't handler that much data (which dings our product vs competition!)



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Aug  7 14:14:08 2024
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2024 18:14:08 +0000
Subject: Best way to convert color values
Message-ID: <1c7699e21085f1e95e3eea7f8d6a6bc984378c64@fourthworld.com>

Paul Dupuis wrote:

> I can always write a routine to convert RGB to Hex and Hex to RGB, but
> I am wondering if there is some clever trick in Livecode to do this.
>
> For example: answer color -- returns RGB, but the htmlText of a line
> wants <p bgcolor="#NNNNNN"> </p>


If the target of the htmlText is a LiveCode field, I don't know of a method built into the LC engine, but it's easy enough to script:

function RGBtoHex pColor
   repeat for each item tVal in pColor
      get baseConvert(tVal, 10, 16)
      if len(it) < 2 then put 0 before it
      put it after tHex
   end repeat
   return "#"& tHex
end RGBtoHex


If the target of the htmlText is a browser widget, the browser engine's built-in "rgb" CSS function can do this:

<html>
  <div style="background-color:rgb(130,30,230)"> Hello </div>
</html>

--
Richard Gaskin
FourthWorld.com


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Wed Aug  7 14:17:41 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2024 18:17:41 +0000
Subject: Cell colorization in a table in Livecode...
In-Reply-To: <8fb662aa-fdd5-4d58-b34f-46649a6c0682@researchware.com>
References: <8fb662aa-fdd5-4d58-b34f-46649a6c0682@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <F0F12D58-8011-4F5C-92F4-727BC6648B44@iotecdigital.com>



On Aug 7, 2024, at 10:47 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

Now, our current problem is that there does not appear to be any tricks to having variable cell background colors in a Polygrid. Row colors: yes Alternate Row colors: Yes, Highlight color: Yes, possibly even highlighting different cell via the pgHilitedData property: maybe (haven't tested yet, but they'd all be 1 color).

I am not really familiar with the PolyList widget (vs PolyGrid). Has anyone figured out how to do a spreadsheet-like table in either the PolyGrid or PolyList with individual cell background coloring?

If not, I'll stick with the Datagrid and add a check for the columns x widths exceeding the 32K px threshold and just warn the researcher we can't handler that much data (which dings our product vs competition!)


Right. That has been the problem with widgets that are meant to replace native controls all along. They do not work the way the native controls work, and they don’t have the extensive property list that the native control had. Take the Custom Property Editor itself. It is actually uses a Tree List widget, which is fine except that there is this anooying need to click something you just edited again after it was already selected. The old Property Editor did not do that.

The Segmented Control was meant to replace the Tab Panel, but try setting the widths of the tabs using a comma separated list of integers and you will have issues.  I had to create buttons that I place over each tab “segment” and put it all in a group because the widget does not handle mouseUps. In fact, I do not think any widgets handle mouseUps! I could be mistaken.

Als while they look great, (the old Tab Panel lokked like warmed over dog cr*p on Windows) their options for modification via script are usually less than the native object they were meant to produce.

Bob S


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Wed Aug  7 14:20:35 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2024 18:20:35 +0000
Subject: Cell colorization in a table in Livecode...
In-Reply-To: <F0F12D58-8011-4F5C-92F4-727BC6648B44@iotecdigital.com>
References: <8fb662aa-fdd5-4d58-b34f-46649a6c0682@researchware.com>
 <F0F12D58-8011-4F5C-92F4-727BC6648B44@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <2D8C8D7E-38F5-45FD-B825-BEFD2A5BC3AF@iotecdigital.com>

<note to self: spell and grammar check before posting. Sheesh!>

Bob S


On Aug 7, 2024, at 11:17 AM, Bob Sneidar <bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com> wrote:



On Aug 7, 2024, at 10:47 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

Now, our current problem is that there does not appear to be any tricks to having variable cell background colors in a Polygrid. Row colors: yes Alternate Row colors: Yes, Highlight color: Yes, possibly even highlighting different cell via the pgHilitedData property: maybe (haven't tested yet, but they'd all be 1 color).

I am not really familiar with the PolyList widget (vs PolyGrid). Has anyone figured out how to do a spreadsheet-like table in either the PolyGrid or PolyList with individual cell background coloring?

If not, I'll stick with the Datagrid and add a check for the columns x widths exceeding the 32K px threshold and just warn the researcher we can't handler that much data (which dings our product vs competition!)


Right. That has been the problem with widgets that are meant to replace native controls all along. They do not work the way the native controls work, and they don’t have the extensive property list that the native control had. Take the Custom Property Editor itself. It is actually uses a Tree List widget, which is fine except that there is this anooying need to click something you just edited again after it was already selected. The old Property Editor did not do that.

The Segmented Control was meant to replace the Tab Panel, but try setting the widths of the tabs using a comma separated list of integers and you will have issues.  I had to create buttons that I place over each tab “segment” and put it all in a group because the widget does not handle mouseUps. In fact, I do not think any widgets handle mouseUps! I could be mistaken.

Als while they look great, (the old Tab Panel lokked like warmed over dog cr*p on Windows) their options for modification via script are usually less than the native object they were meant to produce.

Bob S



From dan at clearvisiontech.com  Wed Aug  7 15:33:51 2024
From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2024 19:33:51 +0000
Subject: iOS App Crashing On Close
In-Reply-To: <2D8C8D7E-38F5-45FD-B825-BEFD2A5BC3AF@iotecdigital.com>
References: <8fb662aa-fdd5-4d58-b34f-46649a6c0682@researchware.com>
 <F0F12D58-8011-4F5C-92F4-727BC6648B44@iotecdigital.com>
 <2D8C8D7E-38F5-45FD-B825-BEFD2A5BC3AF@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <SN7PR12MB8028ACDCBC0064708AAA479AB9B82@SN7PR12MB8028.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>

I have an app that has been humming along just fine in the app store.  I updated the app to 10.0.0 (rc1) and it’s now in TestFlight.   When I close the app from the OS (swipe up from bottom of phone and then swipe app up to exit it), I get this message:

“MyAppName” – Crashed
Do you want to share additional information with the developer?

Details about the crash in TestFlight (date, time, build, device model, etc.) seem useless.   I looked at the crash log in Xcode, but it too seems to just list the threads and hex values.  For example, the highlighted red line in the Crash List (in Xcode) shows:   MyAppName: 0x104a6c000 + 634716

Interesting thing is if I call “quit” in a button, I don’t get the crash.

Any thoughts?

-Dan

From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Wed Aug  7 16:59:35 2024
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2024 21:59:35 +0100
Subject: iOS App Crashing On Close
In-Reply-To: <SN7PR12MB8028ACDCBC0064708AAA479AB9B82@SN7PR12MB8028.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
References: <8fb662aa-fdd5-4d58-b34f-46649a6c0682@researchware.com>
 <F0F12D58-8011-4F5C-92F4-727BC6648B44@iotecdigital.com>
 <2D8C8D7E-38F5-45FD-B825-BEFD2A5BC3AF@iotecdigital.com>
 <SN7PR12MB8028ACDCBC0064708AAA479AB9B82@SN7PR12MB8028.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <FED482FD-9297-43E0-8D1F-89457F69A346@gmail.com>

Hi Dan,

Just a random thought that might help orient you to a potential problem… how are you handling the closeStackRequest (or closeStack) message? “Quit” in a button obviously bypasses these. Odd that the problem would just start showing up in 10.0.0 although I do remember reading somewhere that the implementation of Monte’s mergeNotify which contained the message UIApplicationWillResignActiveNotification had been revised at some point, but can’t find any reference to it now.  Sorry if that doesn’t help. Just some random thoughts that popped into my head while reading of your problem. 

Mark

> On 7 Aug 2024, at 8:33 PM, Dan Friedman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I have an app that has been humming along just fine in the app store.  I updated the app to 10.0.0 (rc1) and it’s now in TestFlight.   When I close the app from the OS (swipe up from bottom of phone and then swipe app up to exit it), I get this message:
> 
> “MyAppName” – Crashed
> Do you want to share additional information with the developer?
> 
> Details about the crash in TestFlight (date, time, build, device model, etc.) seem useless.   I looked at the crash log in Xcode, but it too seems to just list the threads and hex values.  For example, the highlighted red line in the Crash List (in Xcode) shows:   MyAppName: 0x104a6c000 + 634716
> 
> Interesting thing is if I call “quit” in a button, I don’t get the crash.
> 
> Any thoughts?
> 
> -Dan
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From dan at clearvisiontech.com  Wed Aug  7 17:07:06 2024
From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2024 21:07:06 +0000
Subject: iOS App Crashing On Close
In-Reply-To: <FED482FD-9297-43E0-8D1F-89457F69A346@gmail.com>
References: <8fb662aa-fdd5-4d58-b34f-46649a6c0682@researchware.com>
 <F0F12D58-8011-4F5C-92F4-727BC6648B44@iotecdigital.com>
 <2D8C8D7E-38F5-45FD-B825-BEFD2A5BC3AF@iotecdigital.com>
 <SN7PR12MB8028ACDCBC0064708AAA479AB9B82@SN7PR12MB8028.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
 <FED482FD-9297-43E0-8D1F-89457F69A346@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SN7PR12MB80287D90DB99184D6D7478C5B9B82@SN7PR12MB8028.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>

Mark,

Thank you for the reply and thoughts!   I am not using closeStack or closeStackRequest anywhere in my project.   I am using shutdown and shutdownRequest but those calls have not changed since moving from 10.0.0 (dp 8) to 10.0.0 (rc1).   Also, I am not using mergeNotify (or have it included) in the build.

Maybe Panos will have some ideas?

-Dan



From: Mark Smith <marksmithhfx at gmail.com>
Date: Wednesday, August 7, 2024 at 2:00 PM
To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Cc: Dan Friedman <dan at clearvisiontech.com>
Subject: Re: iOS App Crashing On Close
Hi Dan,

Just a random thought that might help orient you to a potential problem… how are you handling the closeStackRequest (or closeStack) message? “Quit” in a button obviously bypasses these. Odd that the problem would just start showing up in 10.0.0 although I do remember reading somewhere that the implementation of Monte’s mergeNotify which contained the message UIApplicationWillResignActiveNotification had been revised at some point, but can’t find any reference to it now.  Sorry if that doesn’t help. Just some random thoughts that popped into my head while reading of your problem.

Mark

> On 7 Aug 2024, at 8:33 PM, Dan Friedman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> I have an app that has been humming along just fine in the app store.  I updated the app to 10.0.0 (rc1) and it’s now in TestFlight.   When I close the app from the OS (swipe up from bottom of phone and then swipe app up to exit it), I get this message:
>
> “MyAppName” – Crashed
> Do you want to share additional information with the developer?
>
> Details about the crash in TestFlight (date, time, build, device model, etc.) seem useless.   I looked at the crash log in Xcode, but it too seems to just list the threads and hex values.  For example, the highlighted red line in the Crash List (in Xcode) shows:   MyAppName: 0x104a6c000 + 634716
>
> Interesting thing is if I call “quit” in a button, I don’t get the crash.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> -Dan
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Wed Aug  7 20:57:07 2024
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2024 01:57:07 +0100
Subject: iOS App Crashing On Close
In-Reply-To: <SN7PR12MB80287D90DB99184D6D7478C5B9B82@SN7PR12MB8028.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
References: <8fb662aa-fdd5-4d58-b34f-46649a6c0682@researchware.com>
 <F0F12D58-8011-4F5C-92F4-727BC6648B44@iotecdigital.com>
 <2D8C8D7E-38F5-45FD-B825-BEFD2A5BC3AF@iotecdigital.com>
 <SN7PR12MB8028ACDCBC0064708AAA479AB9B82@SN7PR12MB8028.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
 <FED482FD-9297-43E0-8D1F-89457F69A346@gmail.com>
 <SN7PR12MB80287D90DB99184D6D7478C5B9B82@SN7PR12MB8028.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <0878A370-0515-4487-99B3-0DFA63C25CEE@gmail.com>

Hi Dan, 

Just to followup, I’ve not experienced the crash you mentioned but I do remember going through a lengthy trial and error process trying to figure out which messages are sent, and when, in response to closing the app the way you describe. I think I discovered, at least I noted this as a comment In my code, that the shutdown and shutdownrequest messages are not sent to mobile devices, at least they weren’t when I was testing some years ago. Things may have changed since then. Instead I used closeStack and closeStackRequest which appear to work reliably. (But I have not tested with 10.0.0 (rc1)). Hope it helps. 

But let’s hope Panos can shine more light on this (as I often feel like I am walking around in LC with a blindfold on. Note: the documentation appears to shine no light on this situation). 

Best,
Mark

> On 7 Aug 2024, at 10:07 PM, Dan Friedman <dan at clearvisiontech.com> wrote:
> 
> Mark,
>  
> Thank you for the reply and thoughts!   I am not using closeStack or closeStackRequest anywhere in my project.   I am using shutdown and shutdownRequest but those calls have not changed since moving from 10.0.0 (dp 8) to 10.0.0 (rc1).   Also, I am not using mergeNotify (or have it included) in the build.
>  
> Maybe Panos will have some ideas?
>  
> -Dan
>  
>  
>  
> From: Mark Smith <marksmithhfx at gmail.com>
> Date: Wednesday, August 7, 2024 at 2:00 PM
> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Cc: Dan Friedman <dan at clearvisiontech.com>
> Subject: Re: iOS App Crashing On Close
> 
> Hi Dan,
> 
> Just a random thought that might help orient you to a potential problem… how are you handling the closeStackRequest (or closeStack) message? “Quit” in a button obviously bypasses these. Odd that the problem would just start showing up in 10.0.0 although I do remember reading somewhere that the implementation of Monte’s mergeNotify which contained the message UIApplicationWillResignActiveNotification had been revised at some point, but can’t find any reference to it now.  Sorry if that doesn’t help. Just some random thoughts that popped into my head while reading of your problem. 
> 
> Mark
> 
> > On 7 Aug 2024, at 8:33 PM, Dan Friedman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > 
> > I have an app that has been humming along just fine in the app store.  I updated the app to 10.0.0 (rc1) and it’s now in TestFlight.   When I close the app from the OS (swipe up from bottom of phone and then swipe app up to exit it), I get this message:
> > 
> > “MyAppName” – Crashed
> > Do you want to share additional information with the developer?
> > 
> > Details about the crash in TestFlight (date, time, build, device model, etc.) seem useless.   I looked at the crash log in Xcode, but it too seems to just list the threads and hex values.  For example, the highlighted red line in the Crash List (in Xcode) shows:   MyAppName: 0x104a6c000 + 634716
> > 
> > Interesting thing is if I call “quit” in a button, I don’t get the crash.
> > 
> > Any thoughts?
> > 
> > -Dan
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 


From martyknappster at gmail.com  Wed Aug  7 23:59:06 2024
From: martyknappster at gmail.com (Marty Knapp)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2024 20:59:06 -0700
Subject: macOS Sequoia beta
Message-ID: <1332BBC2-A99C-4256-A0E1-C08937501009@gmail.com>

Curious if anyone has tested LC on the macOS Sequoia beta and if so, have you found anything of concern?

---
Marty Knapp

From merakosp at gmail.com  Thu Aug  8 05:14:45 2024
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2024 12:14:45 +0300
Subject: iOS App Crashing On Close
In-Reply-To: <0878A370-0515-4487-99B3-0DFA63C25CEE@gmail.com>
References: <8fb662aa-fdd5-4d58-b34f-46649a6c0682@researchware.com>
 <F0F12D58-8011-4F5C-92F4-727BC6648B44@iotecdigital.com>
 <2D8C8D7E-38F5-45FD-B825-BEFD2A5BC3AF@iotecdigital.com>
 <SN7PR12MB8028ACDCBC0064708AAA479AB9B82@SN7PR12MB8028.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
 <FED482FD-9297-43E0-8D1F-89457F69A346@gmail.com>
 <SN7PR12MB80287D90DB99184D6D7478C5B9B82@SN7PR12MB8028.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
 <0878A370-0515-4487-99B3-0DFA63C25CEE@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq988ZbpenKTtJ=VXzt=ymH=05sa5H5VCipC4_ScRNJZig@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Dan and Mark,

Hmm, interesting, I cannot think of anything we changed from 10 DP-8 to 10
RC-1 that could have caused this on iOS. Is the app doing anything when it
is in the background (e.g. playing background audio or such)?

In any case, I think the best way to get this resolved is to send us the
crash log to see if we can symbolicate it and/or send us directly the
sample stack that exhibits the problem.

Kind regards,
Panos
--

On Thu, 8 Aug 2024 at 03:58, Mark Smith via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Dan,
>
> Just to followup, I’ve not experienced the crash you mentioned but I do
> remember going through a lengthy trial and error process trying to figure
> out which messages are sent, and when, in response to closing the app the
> way you describe. I think I discovered, at least I noted this as a comment
> In my code, that the shutdown and shutdownrequest messages are not sent to
> mobile devices, at least they weren’t when I was testing some years ago.
> Things may have changed since then. Instead I used closeStack and
> closeStackRequest which appear to work reliably. (But I have not tested
> with 10.0.0 (rc1)). Hope it helps.
>
> But let’s hope Panos can shine more light on this (as I often feel like I
> am walking around in LC with a blindfold on. Note: the documentation
> appears to shine no light on this situation).
>
> Best,
> Mark
>
> > On 7 Aug 2024, at 10:07 PM, Dan Friedman <dan at clearvisiontech.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Mark,
> >
> > Thank you for the reply and thoughts!   I am not using closeStack or
> closeStackRequest anywhere in my project.   I am using shutdown and
> shutdownRequest but those calls have not changed since moving from 10.0.0
> (dp 8) to 10.0.0 (rc1).   Also, I am not using mergeNotify (or have it
> included) in the build.
> >
> > Maybe Panos will have some ideas?
> >
> > -Dan
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Mark Smith <marksmithhfx at gmail.com>
> > Date: Wednesday, August 7, 2024 at 2:00 PM
> > To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> > Cc: Dan Friedman <dan at clearvisiontech.com>
> > Subject: Re: iOS App Crashing On Close
> >
> > Hi Dan,
> >
> > Just a random thought that might help orient you to a potential problem…
> how are you handling the closeStackRequest (or closeStack) message? “Quit”
> in a button obviously bypasses these. Odd that the problem would just start
> showing up in 10.0.0 although I do remember reading somewhere that the
> implementation of Monte’s mergeNotify which contained the message
> UIApplicationWillResignActiveNotification had been revised at some point,
> but can’t find any reference to it now.  Sorry if that doesn’t help. Just
> some random thoughts that popped into my head while reading of your
> problem.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> > > On 7 Aug 2024, at 8:33 PM, Dan Friedman via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > I have an app that has been humming along just fine in the app store.
> I updated the app to 10.0.0 (rc1) and it’s now in TestFlight.   When I
> close the app from the OS (swipe up from bottom of phone and then swipe app
> up to exit it), I get this message:
> > >
> > > “MyAppName” – Crashed
> > > Do you want to share additional information with the developer?
> > >
> > > Details about the crash in TestFlight (date, time, build, device
> model, etc.) seem useless.   I looked at the crash log in Xcode, but it too
> seems to just list the threads and hex values.  For example, the
> highlighted red line in the Crash List (in Xcode) shows:   MyAppName:
> 0x104a6c000 + 634716
> > >
> > > Interesting thing is if I call “quit” in a button, I don’t get the
> crash.
> > >
> > > Any thoughts?
> > >
> > > -Dan
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > use-livecode mailing list
> > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From phil at liverpool.ac.uk  Thu Aug  8 05:22:21 2024
From: phil at liverpool.ac.uk (Jimmieson, Phil)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2024 09:22:21 +0000
Subject: Export snapshot - is it usable on LiveCode web apps?
Message-ID: <1DA5481F-8C90-4F6A-8F8C-986D6E959817@liverpool.ac.uk>

Hi folks,
I’m experimenting with converting one of my LiveCode iPad Apps into a web version, to see how well it works, but there’s an issue that seems to be a deal-breaker. My iPad app takes a screenshot of the LiveCode stack when the user navigates away from the main card, so that the image can be used elsewhere in the app. This works fine on iPad, but I noticed that the web version of the app generates a javascript exception when I try to leave the main card. On checking the dictionary, I noticed that the export snapshot command is not listed as being supported on web. Is this correct? If so, is there an alternative that will work for web?

Thanks

--
Phil Jimmieson (He/Him)
University of Liverpool, Computer Science Department
Ashton Bldg, Ashton Street, Liverpool. L69 3BX
0151 795 4236


From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com  Thu Aug  8 08:23:23 2024
From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2024 14:23:23 +0200
Subject: Export snapshot - is it usable on LiveCode web apps?
In-Reply-To: <1DA5481F-8C90-4F6A-8F8C-986D6E959817@liverpool.ac.uk>
References: <1DA5481F-8C90-4F6A-8F8C-986D6E959817@liverpool.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <CAGu-Ftabrb2Q07xhAQxQpXAeZ-69iSaWSyUTOs+Sn7zft2290Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Phil,

I believe it’s correct that export snapshot is currently not supported on
web (with LiveCode 10, don’t know about Create).

I tried to find a solution some time ago, but didn’t have time to
experiment enough.

One of the methods in this article might be useful:
https://hackernoon.com/how-to-take-screenshots-in-the-browser-using-javascript-l92k3xq7

I might revisit this challenge when back from vacation. If you find a
solution I’d be interested to learn it.

/Andreas

tors 8 aug. 2024 kl. 11:23 skrev Jimmieson, Phil via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:

> Hi folks,
> I’m experimenting with converting one of my LiveCode iPad Apps into a web
> version, to see how well it works, but there’s an issue that seems to be a
> deal-breaker. My iPad app takes a screenshot of the LiveCode stack when the
> user navigates away from the main card, so that the image can be used
> elsewhere in the app. This works fine on iPad, but I noticed that the web
> version of the app generates a javascript exception when I try to leave the
> main card. On checking the dictionary, I noticed that the export snapshot
> command is not listed as being supported on web. Is this correct? If so, is
> there an alternative that will work for web?
>
> Thanks
>
> --
> Phil Jimmieson (He/Him)
> University of Liverpool, Computer Science Department
> Ashton Bldg, Ashton Street, Liverpool. L69 3BX
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/Ashton+Street,+Liverpool.+L69+3BX?entry=gmail&source=g>
> 0151 795 4236
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From mark at livecode.com  Thu Aug  8 08:39:00 2024
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2024 13:39:00 +0100
Subject: Export snapshot - is it usable on LiveCode web apps?
In-Reply-To: <1DA5481F-8C90-4F6A-8F8C-986D6E959817@liverpool.ac.uk>
References: <1DA5481F-8C90-4F6A-8F8C-986D6E959817@liverpool.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <d5f49680e326203d4237cd169c778080@livecode.com>

On 2024-08-08 10:22, Jimmieson, Phil via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi folks,
> Im experimenting with converting one of my LiveCode iPad Apps into a 
> web version, to see how well it works, but theres an issue that seems 
> to be a deal-breaker. My iPad app takes a screenshot of the LiveCode 
> stack when the user navigates away from the main card, so that the 
> image can be used elsewhere in the app. This works fine on iPad, but I 
> noticed that the web version of the app generates a javascript 
> exception when I try to leave the main card. On checking the 
> dictionary, I noticed that the export snapshot command is not listed as 
> being supported on web. Is this correct? If so, is there an alternative 
> that will work for web?

So 'export snapshot from screen' is not supported - this is the form 
which takes the pixel data from the actual (composited) screen buffer.

However, there is an alternate form which is entirely internal to the 
engine:

    export snapshot from [ rect <rect> of ] <object>

To use the internal form for a card you can do:

    export snapshot from this card

Or if you want a portion of the card:

    export snapshot from rect 0,0,100,100 of this card

Further there is an `at size <width>,<height>` clause which allows you 
to specify the size you want the resulting image.

The difference here is that the internal form replicates the same 
process that the engine uses to render objects to a window - it renders 
the given rectangle of the object into a rect of the specified size (or 
the size of the rect/object if 'at size' is not specified).

In contrast, the 'external' form has to ask the OS for the given 
rectangle of the actual screen's framebuffer.

Hope this helps,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things


From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com  Thu Aug  8 10:22:41 2024
From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2024 16:22:41 +0200
Subject: Export snapshot - is it usable on LiveCode web apps?
In-Reply-To: <d5f49680e326203d4237cd169c778080@livecode.com>
References: <1DA5481F-8C90-4F6A-8F8C-986D6E959817@liverpool.ac.uk>
 <d5f49680e326203d4237cd169c778080@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <CAGu-FtY7noM1rtbQVt_6czd3-Ov0PhiaaHGTP-VFi5fkuhhkcg@mail.gmail.com>

That’s good to know! Then it must have been something else I was struggling
with - perhaps it had to do with getting a snapshot of the content of a
browser widget…? That would still present problems in certain (all?)
platforms, right?

tors 8 aug. 2024 kl. 14:39 skrev Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:

> On 2024-08-08 10:22, Jimmieson, Phil via use-livecode wrote:
> > Hi folks,
> > I’m experimenting with converting one of my LiveCode iPad Apps into a
> > web version, to see how well it works, but there’s an issue that seems
> > to be a deal-breaker. My iPad app takes a screenshot of the LiveCode
> > stack when the user navigates away from the main card, so that the
> > image can be used elsewhere in the app. This works fine on iPad, but I
> > noticed that the web version of the app generates a javascript
> > exception when I try to leave the main card. On checking the
> > dictionary, I noticed that the export snapshot command is not listed as
> > being supported on web. Is this correct? If so, is there an alternative
> > that will work for web?
>
> So 'export snapshot from screen' is not supported - this is the form
> which takes the pixel data from the actual (composited) screen buffer.
>
> However, there is an alternate form which is entirely internal to the
> engine:
>
>     export snapshot from [ rect <rect> of ] <object>
>
> To use the internal form for a card you can do:
>
>     export snapshot from this card
>
> Or if you want a portion of the card:
>
>     export snapshot from rect 0,0,100,100 of this card
>
> Further there is an `at size <width>,<height>` clause which allows you
> to specify the size you want the resulting image.
>
> The difference here is that the internal form replicates the same
> process that the engine uses to render objects to a window - it renders
> the given rectangle of the object into a rect of the specified size (or
> the size of the rect/object if 'at size' is not specified).
>
> In contrast, the 'external' form has to ask the OS for the given
> rectangle of the actual screen's framebuffer.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Mark.
>
> --
> Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Build Amazing Things

From tom at makeshyft.com  Thu Aug  8 10:37:03 2024
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2024 10:37:03 -0400
Subject: Export snapshot - is it usable on LiveCode web apps?
In-Reply-To: <CAGu-FtY7noM1rtbQVt_6czd3-Ov0PhiaaHGTP-VFi5fkuhhkcg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1DA5481F-8C90-4F6A-8F8C-986D6E959817@liverpool.ac.uk>
 <d5f49680e326203d4237cd169c778080@livecode.com>
 <CAGu-FtY7noM1rtbQVt_6czd3-Ov0PhiaaHGTP-VFi5fkuhhkcg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPzQJLLq8tEJdzJjrk1dSPqMVEreNy_jFePMz=b-09Vuo=1_=Q@mail.gmail.com>

just fyi If your cursor or another window is over the rect it will show up
in the screenshot.

On Thu, Aug 8, 2024 at 10:23 AM Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> That’s good to know! Then it must have been something else I was struggling
> with - perhaps it had to do with getting a snapshot of the content of a
> browser widget…? That would still present problems in certain (all?)
> platforms, right?
>
> tors 8 aug. 2024 kl. 14:39 skrev Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>
> > On 2024-08-08 10:22, Jimmieson, Phil via use-livecode wrote:
> > > Hi folks,
> > > I’m experimenting with converting one of my LiveCode iPad Apps into a
> > > web version, to see how well it works, but there’s an issue that seems
> > > to be a deal-breaker. My iPad app takes a screenshot of the LiveCode
> > > stack when the user navigates away from the main card, so that the
> > > image can be used elsewhere in the app. This works fine on iPad, but I
> > > noticed that the web version of the app generates a javascript
> > > exception when I try to leave the main card. On checking the
> > > dictionary, I noticed that the export snapshot command is not listed as
> > > being supported on web. Is this correct? If so, is there an alternative
> > > that will work for web?
> >
> > So 'export snapshot from screen' is not supported - this is the form
> > which takes the pixel data from the actual (composited) screen buffer.
> >
> > However, there is an alternate form which is entirely internal to the
> > engine:
> >
> >     export snapshot from [ rect <rect> of ] <object>
> >
> > To use the internal form for a card you can do:
> >
> >     export snapshot from this card
> >
> > Or if you want a portion of the card:
> >
> >     export snapshot from rect 0,0,100,100 of this card
> >
> > Further there is an `at size <width>,<height>` clause which allows you
> > to specify the size you want the resulting image.
> >
> > The difference here is that the internal form replicates the same
> > process that the engine uses to render objects to a window - it renders
> > the given rectangle of the object into a rect of the specified size (or
> > the size of the rect/object if 'at size' is not specified).
> >
> > In contrast, the 'external' form has to ask the OS for the given
> > rectangle of the actual screen's framebuffer.
> >
> > Hope this helps,
> >
> > Mark.
> >
> > --
> > Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> > LiveCode: Build Amazing Things
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From phil at liverpool.ac.uk  Thu Aug  8 10:47:06 2024
From: phil at liverpool.ac.uk (Jimmieson, Phil)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2024 14:47:06 +0000
Subject: Export snapshot - is it usable on LiveCode web apps?
In-Reply-To: <d5f49680e326203d4237cd169c778080@livecode.com>
References: <1DA5481F-8C90-4F6A-8F8C-986D6E959817@liverpool.ac.uk>
 <d5f49680e326203d4237cd169c778080@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <6DEF60BF-8BBF-456C-8D12-217C7D631093@liverpool.ac.uk>

Hi folks,
Thanks to everyone who responded to my question. Where else would you get such support? And in particular, with what other development system would you get one of the actual architects of the system, responding to your question? LIveCode is something else.

OK, I have updated my screenshot code. I’m still getting a javascript exception, but it looks like it’s now caused by something else that web doesn’t like. Something that works ok on iPad. More investigation is required...


On 8 Aug 2024, at 13:39, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

Caution: This email originated from outside of the University. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognise the source of this email and know the content is safe. Check sender address, hover over URLs and don't open suspicious email attachments.

On 2024-08-08 10:22, Jimmieson, Phil via use-livecode wrote:
Hi folks,
I’m experimenting with converting one of my LiveCode iPad Apps into a web version, to see how well it works, but there’s an issue that seems to be a deal-breaker. My iPad app takes a screenshot of the LiveCode stack when the user navigates away from the main card, so that the image can be used elsewhere in the app. This works fine on iPad, but I noticed that the web version of the app generates a javascript exception when I try to leave the main card. On checking the dictionary, I noticed that the export snapshot command is not listed as being supported on web. Is this correct? If so, is there an alternative that will work for web?

So 'export snapshot from screen' is not supported - this is the form which takes the pixel data from the actual (composited) screen buffer.

However, there is an alternate form which is entirely internal to the engine:

  export snapshot from [ rect <rect> of ] <object>

To use the internal form for a card you can do:

  export snapshot from this card

Or if you want a portion of the card:

  export snapshot from rect 0,0,100,100 of this card

Further there is an `at size <width>,<height>` clause which allows you to specify the size you want the resulting image.

The difference here is that the internal form replicates the same process that the engine uses to render objects to a window - it renders the given rectangle of the object into a rect of the specified size (or the size of the rect/object if 'at size' is not specified).

In contrast, the 'external' form has to ask the OS for the given rectangle of the actual screen's framebuffer.

Hope this helps,

Mark.

--
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

--
Phil Jimmieson (He/Him)
University of Liverpool, Computer Science Department
Ashton Bldg, Ashton Street, Liverpool. L69 3BX
0151 795 4236


From colinholgate at gmail.com  Thu Aug  8 11:26:42 2024
From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2024 09:26:42 -0600
Subject: macOS Sequoia beta
In-Reply-To: <1332BBC2-A99C-4256-A0E1-C08937501009@gmail.com>
References: <1332BBC2-A99C-4256-A0E1-C08937501009@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DBB50713-CBF0-4CDB-AC61-FA0705789F79@gmail.com>

The LiveCodes I had are no longer working in Sonoma and Sequoia. I updated to LiveCode 9.6.12, and that seems to be working ok in the Sequoia beta 5.


> On Aug 7, 2024, at 9:59 PM, Marty Knapp via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Curious if anyone has tested LC on the macOS Sequoia beta and if so, have you found anything of concern?
> 
> ---
> Marty Knapp
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu Aug  8 11:30:41 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2024 15:30:41 +0000
Subject: iOS App Crashing On Close
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq988ZbpenKTtJ=VXzt=ymH=05sa5H5VCipC4_ScRNJZig@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8fb662aa-fdd5-4d58-b34f-46649a6c0682@researchware.com>
 <F0F12D58-8011-4F5C-92F4-727BC6648B44@iotecdigital.com>
 <2D8C8D7E-38F5-45FD-B825-BEFD2A5BC3AF@iotecdigital.com>
 <SN7PR12MB8028ACDCBC0064708AAA479AB9B82@SN7PR12MB8028.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
 <FED482FD-9297-43E0-8D1F-89457F69A346@gmail.com>
 <SN7PR12MB80287D90DB99184D6D7478C5B9B82@SN7PR12MB8028.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
 <0878A370-0515-4487-99B3-0DFA63C25CEE@gmail.com>
 <CA+JfEq988ZbpenKTtJ=VXzt=ymH=05sa5H5VCipC4_ScRNJZig@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2BFAAF38-C0B1-4AFC-B0B1-E1CE49F12A5B@iotecdigital.com>

I would dearly love to know how to symbolicate a crash log!!!

Bob S


On Aug 8, 2024, at 2:14 AM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

In any case, I think the best way to get this resolved is to send us the
crash log to see if we can symbolicate it


From panos.merakos at livecode.com  Thu Aug  8 11:44:00 2024
From: panos.merakos at livecode.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2024 18:44:00 +0300
Subject: [[ ANN ]] Release 9.6.13
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq-e8iguUoXVW1uWhWmnwwuFZtZAyqbxpysH4u_5f9QGNQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear list members,

We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 9.6.13 STABLE.

LiveCode 9.6.13 STABLE comes with 11 bugfixes and performance improvements
since the last stable release,
including support for building against API 34 on Android, and a new version
of Google's
in-app billing library used for in-app purchase. Both of these changes are
required for
new app submissions to the Google Play Store after the 31st of August 2024.
Moreover, The CEF browser version has been updated on Windows.

You can find more details on the bug fixes and improvements of this new
release here
<https://livecode.com/livecode-9-6-13-rc-1-google-play-store-and-cef-updates-2/>
.

You can find the release in your LiveCode account area or get it via the
automatic updater.

Enjoy!

Kind regards
The LiveCode Team


--

From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu Aug  8 12:01:32 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2024 16:01:32 +0000
Subject: Best way to convert color values
In-Reply-To: <1c7699e21085f1e95e3eea7f8d6a6bc984378c64@fourthworld.com>
References: <1c7699e21085f1e95e3eea7f8d6a6bc984378c64@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <D4B3B450-27F9-494A-BED0-47AAEB40E5D8@iotecdigital.com>

Yet another gem for my Validations library. I should probably separate out the conversion stuff as a conversions library. 

Bob S


> On Aug 7, 2024, at 11:14 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Paul Dupuis wrote:
> 
>> I can always write a routine to convert RGB to Hex and Hex to RGB, but
>> I am wondering if there is some clever trick in Livecode to do this.
>> 
>> For example: answer color -- returns RGB, but the htmlText of a line
>> wants <p bgcolor="#NNNNNN"> </p>
> 
> 
> If the target of the htmlText is a LiveCode field, I don't know of a method built into the LC engine, but it's easy enough to script:
> 
> function RGBtoHex pColor
>   repeat for each item tVal in pColor
>      get baseConvert(tVal, 10, 16)
>      if len(it) < 2 then put 0 before it
>      put it after tHex
>   end repeat
>   return "#"& tHex
> end RGBtoHex
> 
> 
> If the target of the htmlText is a browser widget, the browser engine's built-in "rgb" CSS function can do this:
> 
> <html>
>  <div style="background-color:rgb(130,30,230)"> Hello </div>
> </html>
> 
> --
> Richard Gaskin
> FourthWorld.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From merakosp at gmail.com  Thu Aug  8 12:26:24 2024
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2024 19:26:24 +0300
Subject: iOS App Crashing On Close
In-Reply-To: <2BFAAF38-C0B1-4AFC-B0B1-E1CE49F12A5B@iotecdigital.com>
References: <8fb662aa-fdd5-4d58-b34f-46649a6c0682@researchware.com>
 <F0F12D58-8011-4F5C-92F4-727BC6648B44@iotecdigital.com>
 <2D8C8D7E-38F5-45FD-B825-BEFD2A5BC3AF@iotecdigital.com>
 <SN7PR12MB8028ACDCBC0064708AAA479AB9B82@SN7PR12MB8028.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
 <FED482FD-9297-43E0-8D1F-89457F69A346@gmail.com>
 <SN7PR12MB80287D90DB99184D6D7478C5B9B82@SN7PR12MB8028.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
 <0878A370-0515-4487-99B3-0DFA63C25CEE@gmail.com>
 <CA+JfEq988ZbpenKTtJ=VXzt=ymH=05sa5H5VCipC4_ScRNJZig@mail.gmail.com>
 <2BFAAF38-C0B1-4AFC-B0B1-E1CE49F12A5B@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq9502GZkE1Qs1Ld28Oa4iH5LQi-3Y_JyNvW1yFWpgw0-A@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Bob,

To do this you need the debug symbols for the version of the engine that
was used to build the app - which are not publicly available.

Kind regards,
Panos

On Thu, 8 Aug 2024 at 18:31, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I would dearly love to know how to symbolicate a crash log!!!
>
> Bob S
>
>
> On Aug 8, 2024, at 2:14 AM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> In any case, I think the best way to get this resolved is to send us the
> crash log to see if we can symbolicate it
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From klaus at major-k.de  Fri Aug  9 05:10:23 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2024 11:10:23 +0200
Subject: Android API 34 and Android keystore
Message-ID: <218F032A-9FE0-4381-AFD0-11629A3EEAC8@major-k.de>

Hi all,

two questions:
1. In my "Android Studio" there are three options for SDK Tools for API level 34:
34
34-ext8
34-ext12

What should I install? 34 or all of them?

2. I need to update my Android freeware app to above mentioned API.
I had uploaded the first version to Google Play with a self signed key,
made with Android Studio, Google was content.

As far as I understood this, I need to use this key for every upload of that app.
And Google then takes care of (final) signing etc.

However I lost that keystore file during a hd crash a couple of months ago.
What should/can I do?

Any advice much appreciated, thank you!


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From sean at pidigital.co.uk  Fri Aug  9 11:56:01 2024
From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Sean Cole)
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2024 16:56:01 +0100
Subject: Annual price
Message-ID: <CABRqQSQJ=ioTOcLORYDoHedBKUeuQLKaf04y63YFQvR4mtWhGQ@mail.gmail.com>

As Create is billed annually, why does this page,
https://future.livecode.com/buy/, only show the monthly price? Why not show
the annual price at all? It is a common marketing practice that only comes
across as underhanded and untrustworthy.

Sean

From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Aug  9 12:24:56 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2024 16:24:56 +0000
Subject: Annual price
In-Reply-To: <CABRqQSQJ=ioTOcLORYDoHedBKUeuQLKaf04y63YFQvR4mtWhGQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABRqQSQJ=ioTOcLORYDoHedBKUeuQLKaf04y63YFQvR4mtWhGQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <690E07B4-5B19-4B33-A8B0-350CECCCC715@iotecdigital.com>

Jeeze can we just please stop with the criticisms??

Bob S


> On Aug 9, 2024, at 8:56 AM, Sean Cole via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> As Create is billed annually, why does this page,
> https://future.livecode.com/buy/, only show the monthly price? Why not show
> the annual price at all? It is a common marketing practice that only comes
> across as underhanded and untrustworthy.
> 
> Sean
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From jbv at souslelogo.com  Fri Aug  9 12:53:55 2024
From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com)
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2024 12:53:55 -0400
Subject: Annual price
In-Reply-To: <690E07B4-5B19-4B33-A8B0-350CECCCC715@iotecdigital.com>
References: <CABRqQSQJ=ioTOcLORYDoHedBKUeuQLKaf04y63YFQvR4mtWhGQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <690E07B4-5B19-4B33-A8B0-350CECCCC715@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <a2f925ccdd52eaea452373c6474cc415@souslelogo.com>

Le 2024-08-09 12:24, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode a crit :
> Jeeze can we just please stop with the criticisms??
> 
> Bob S
> 

Apart from criticism, it could be a nice option, especially for 
hobbyists,
to be able to pay a Classic license monthly, just like LC hosting, or 
other
development software line Max MSP : https://cycling74.com/shop/max.


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Aug  9 12:59:36 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2024 16:59:36 +0000
Subject: Annual price
In-Reply-To: <a2f925ccdd52eaea452373c6474cc415@souslelogo.com>
References: <CABRqQSQJ=ioTOcLORYDoHedBKUeuQLKaf04y63YFQvR4mtWhGQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <690E07B4-5B19-4B33-A8B0-350CECCCC715@iotecdigital.com>
 <a2f925ccdd52eaea452373c6474cc415@souslelogo.com>
Message-ID: <0888DD6E-AB22-463A-9BBF-965140149143@iotecdigital.com>

Understood, but LC and Kevin have made it crystal clear that these are the options available, they are willing to make some rare exceptions if they are contacted directly and NOT on this list, and finally that no more criticisms will be tolerated on this list. 

Bob S


> On Aug 9, 2024, at 9:53 AM, jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Le 2024-08-09 12:24, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode a écrit :
>> Jeeze can we just please stop with the criticisms??
>> Bob S
> 
> Apart from criticism, it could be a nice option, especially for hobbyists,
> to be able to pay a Classic license monthly, just like LC hosting, or other
> development software line Max MSP : https://cycling74.com/shop/max.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From scott at elementarysoftware.com  Fri Aug  9 15:56:19 2024
From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (scott at elementarysoftware.com)
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2024 12:56:19 -0700
Subject: Android API 34 and Android keystore
In-Reply-To: <218F032A-9FE0-4381-AFD0-11629A3EEAC8@major-k.de>
References: <218F032A-9FE0-4381-AFD0-11629A3EEAC8@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <6BC1D23E-E1A9-466B-9347-ED6B8AEF14EC@elementarysoftware.com>

As for which SDK variant to install… I don’t know but hope you will report back before I encounter this question :- )

As for the second question about the lost keystore… 
a few years ago I encountered a similar problem (I apparently overwrote my keystore with a different one and, by the time I needed to submit an update to GooglePlay, I had lots of  back-ups of the wrong keystore!) After reading up on things I came to the conclusion that there was no solution and that without the original keystore the app could no longer be updated in GooglePlay. The only way forward I could see was to “unpublish” the existing app and create a new app entry (with a different internal name but using the same storefront name.) This meant that the existing users couldn’t “update” their app without downloading the new app (searchable under the original name.) I can’t recall how I handled the user-data that the original app generated but I suspect that it was lost and needed to be recreated. (With this app it would have been mildly annoying but not unbearable. I can imagine use-cases where moving the data might be a big issue.)  This was a commercial app where the clients were known to me so it was possible to notify them and they could get the word out to their employees. 

This was a number of years ago so perhaps things have changed since then. I hope that you find a better solution, Klaus.

--
Scott Morrow

Elementary Software
(Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
web       https://elementarysoftware.com/
email     scott at elementarysoftware.com
booth    1-360-734-4701
------------------------------------------------------

> On Aug 9, 2024, at 2:10 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> two questions:
> 1. In my "Android Studio" there are three options for SDK Tools for API level 34:
> 34
> 34-ext8
> 34-ext12
> 
> What should I install? 34 or all of them?
> 
> 2. I need to update my Android freeware app to above mentioned API.
> I had uploaded the first version to Google Play with a self signed key,
> made with Android Studio, Google was content.
> 
> As far as I understood this, I need to use this key for every upload of that app.
> And Google then takes care of (final) signing etc.
> 
> However I lost that keystore file during a hd crash a couple of months ago.
> What should/can I do?
> 
> Any advice much appreciated, thank you!
> 
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode













From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Aug  9 16:03:42 2024
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2024 15:03:42 -0500
Subject: Android API 34 and Android keystore
In-Reply-To: <218F032A-9FE0-4381-AFD0-11629A3EEAC8@major-k.de>
References: <218F032A-9FE0-4381-AFD0-11629A3EEAC8@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <19138bd6530.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

I'm not sure about the SDK version but it probably won't hurt to install 
them all and let LC choose the one that's compatible. For the signing key, 
you can recreate it if you have the info and password you used for the 
original. I keep that info in my password vault just in case. If you don't 
have that info, then I'm not sure what to do. Google support could advise you.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On August 9, 2024 4:12:48 AM Klaus major-k via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> two questions:
> 1. In my "Android Studio" there are three options for SDK Tools for API 
> level 34:
> 34
> 34-ext8
> 34-ext12
>
> What should I install? 34 or all of them?
>
> 2. I need to update my Android freeware app to above mentioned API.
> I had uploaded the first version to Google Play with a self signed key,
> made with Android Studio, Google was content.
>
> As far as I understood this, I need to use this key for every upload of 
> that app.
> And Google then takes care of (final) signing etc.
>
> However I lost that keystore file during a hd crash a couple of months ago.
> What should/can I do?
>
> Any advice much appreciated, thank you!
>
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From pystcat at gmail.com  Fri Aug  9 16:13:23 2024
From: pystcat at gmail.com (Paul Pystcat)
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2024 16:13:23 -0400
Subject: Annual price
In-Reply-To: <a2f925ccdd52eaea452373c6474cc415@souslelogo.com>
References: <CABRqQSQJ=ioTOcLORYDoHedBKUeuQLKaf04y63YFQvR4mtWhGQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <690E07B4-5B19-4B33-A8B0-350CECCCC715@iotecdigital.com>
 <a2f925ccdd52eaea452373c6474cc415@souslelogo.com>
Message-ID: <3B06C993-0D74-4B67-84AB-2075E39C2932@gmail.com>

Funny thing is…?  If you choose a license and fill out the form, it will tell you the yearly price.
I agree with you on this one, Bob.

> On Aug 9, 2024, at 12:53 PM, jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Le 2024-08-09 12:24, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode a écrit :
>> Jeeze can we just please stop with the criticisms??
>> Bob S
> 
> Apart from criticism, it could be a nice option, especially for hobbyists,
> to be able to pay a Classic license monthly, just like LC hosting, or other
> development software line Max MSP : https://cycling74.com/shop/max.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From scott at elementarysoftware.com  Fri Aug  9 16:57:15 2024
From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (scott at elementarysoftware.com)
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2024 13:57:15 -0700
Subject: Android API 34 and Android keystore
In-Reply-To: <19138bd6530.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <218F032A-9FE0-4381-AFD0-11629A3EEAC8@major-k.de>
 <19138bd6530.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <6277C053-0A04-4674-A606-184BA19E9CE1@elementarysoftware.com>

Jacque, that seems like a more reasonable  (and hopeful) answer. In my case, I was certain that I knew all of that information yet was still unable to recreate a keystore that GooglePlay would accept. Likely, I was just mistaken.

--
Scott Morrow

> On Aug 9, 2024, at 1:03 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I'm not sure about the SDK version but it probably won't hurt to install them all and let LC choose the one that's compatible. For the signing key, you can recreate it if you have the info and password you used for the original. I keep that info in my password vault just in case. If you don't have that info, then I'm not sure what to do. Google support could advise you.
> 
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On August 9, 2024 4:12:48 AM Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> two questions:
>> 1. In my "Android Studio" there are three options for SDK Tools for API level 34:
>> 34
>> 34-ext8
>> 34-ext12
>> 
>> What should I install? 34 or all of them?
>> 
>> 2. I need to update my Android freeware app to above mentioned API.
>> I had uploaded the first version to Google Play with a self signed key,
>> made with Android Studio, Google was content.
>> 
>> As far as I understood this, I need to use this key for every upload of that app.
>> And Google then takes care of (final) signing etc.
>> 
>> However I lost that keystore file during a hd crash a couple of months ago.
>> What should/can I do?
>> 
>> Any advice much appreciated, thank you!
>> 
>> 
>> Best
>> 
>> Klaus
>> --
>> Klaus Major
>> https://www.major-k.de
>> https://www.major-k.de/bass
>> klaus at major-k.de
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Fri Aug  9 17:28:54 2024
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2024 17:28:54 -0400
Subject: Android API 34 and Android keystore
In-Reply-To: <6BC1D23E-E1A9-466B-9347-ED6B8AEF14EC@elementarysoftware.com>
References: <218F032A-9FE0-4381-AFD0-11629A3EEAC8@major-k.de>
 <6BC1D23E-E1A9-466B-9347-ED6B8AEF14EC@elementarysoftware.com>
Message-ID: <004301daeaa3$25a96c00$70fc4400$@net>

Klaus,

Once you lose the keystore you don't have the key pair used to generate the keystore entry. Scott is correct, you have to re-publish with all the headaches Scott enumerated.
Sorry man...

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of scott--- via use-livecode
Sent: Friday, August 09, 2024 3:56 PM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: scott at elementarysoftware.com
Subject: Re: Android API 34 and Android keystore

As for which SDK variant to install… I don’t know but hope you will report back before I encounter this question :- )

As for the second question about the lost keystore… a few years ago I encountered a similar problem (I apparently overwrote my keystore with a different one and, by the time I needed to submit an update to GooglePlay, I had lots of  back-ups of the wrong keystore!) After reading up on things I came to the conclusion that there was no solution and that without the original keystore the app could no longer be updated in GooglePlay. The only way forward I could see was to “unpublish” the existing app and create a new app entry (with a different internal name but using the same storefront name.) This meant that the existing users couldn’t “update” their app without downloading the new app (searchable under the original name.) I can’t recall how I handled the user-data that the original app generated but I suspect that it was lost and needed to be recreated. (With this app it would have been mildly annoying but not unbearable. I can imagine use-cases where moving the data might be a big issue.)  This was a commercial app where the clients were known to me so it was possible to notify them and they could get the word out to their employees. 

This was a number of years ago so perhaps things have changed since then. I hope that you find a better solution, Klaus.

--
Scott Morrow

Elementary Software
(Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
web       https://elementarysoftware.com/
email     scott at elementarysoftware.com
booth    1-360-734-4701
------------------------------------------------------

> On Aug 9, 2024, at 2:10 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> two questions:
> 1. In my "Android Studio" there are three options for SDK Tools for API level 34:
> 34
> 34-ext8
> 34-ext12
> 
> What should I install? 34 or all of them?
> 
> 2. I need to update my Android freeware app to above mentioned API.
> I had uploaded the first version to Google Play with a self signed 
> key, made with Android Studio, Google was content.
> 
> As far as I understood this, I need to use this key for every upload of that app.
> And Google then takes care of (final) signing etc.
> 
> However I lost that keystore file during a hd crash a couple of months ago.
> What should/can I do?
> 
> Any advice much appreciated, thank you!
> 
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode












_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Aug  9 19:09:46 2024
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2024 18:09:46 -0500
Subject: Android API 34 and Android keystore
In-Reply-To: <004301daeaa3$25a96c00$70fc4400$@net>
References: <218F032A-9FE0-4381-AFD0-11629A3EEAC8@major-k.de>
 <6BC1D23E-E1A9-466B-9347-ED6B8AEF14EC@elementarysoftware.com>
 <004301daeaa3$25a96c00$70fc4400$@net>
Message-ID: <1913967be90.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

I stand corrected, thanks.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On August 9, 2024 4:29:57 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Klaus,
>
> Once you lose the keystore you don't have the key pair used to generate the 
> keystore entry. Scott is correct, you have to re-publish with all the 
> headaches Scott enumerated.
> Sorry man...
>
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf 
> Of scott--- via use-livecode
> Sent: Friday, August 09, 2024 3:56 PM
> To: How to use LiveCode
> Cc: scott at elementarysoftware.com
> Subject: Re: Android API 34 and Android keystore
>
> As for which SDK variant to install I dont know but hope you will report 
> back before I encounter this question :- )
>
> As for the second question about the lost keystore a few years ago I 
> encountered a similar problem (I apparently overwrote my keystore with a 
> different one and, by the time I needed to submit an update to GooglePlay, 
> I had lots of  back-ups of the wrong keystore!) After reading up on things 
> I came to the conclusion that there was no solution and that without the 
> original keystore the app could no longer be updated in GooglePlay. The 
> only way forward I could see was to unpublish the existing app and create 
> a new app entry (with a different internal name but using the same 
> storefront name.) This meant that the existing users couldnt update 
> their app without downloading the new app (searchable under the original 
> name.) I cant recall how I handled the user-data that the original app 
> generated but I suspect that it was lost and needed to be recreated. (With 
> this app it would have been mildly annoying but not unbearable. I can 
> imagine use-cases where moving the data might be a big issue.)  This was a 
> commercial app where the clients were known to me so it was possible to 
> notify them and they could get the word out to their employees.
>
> This was a number of years ago so perhaps things have changed since then. I 
> hope that you find a better solution, Klaus.
>
> --
> Scott Morrow
>
> Elementary Software
> (Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
> web       https://elementarysoftware.com/
> email     scott at elementarysoftware.com
> booth    1-360-734-4701
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
>> On Aug 9, 2024, at 2:10AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> two questions:
>> 1. In my "Android Studio" there are three options for SDK Tools for API 
>> level 34:
>> 34
>> 34-ext8
>> 34-ext12
>>
>> What should I install? 34 or all of them?
>>
>> 2. I need to update my Android freeware app to above mentioned API.
>> I had uploaded the first version to Google Play with a self signed
>> key, made with Android Studio, Google was content.
>>
>> As far as I understood this, I need to use this key for every upload of 
>> that app.
>> And Google then takes care of (final) signing etc.
>>
>> However I lost that keystore file during a hd crash a couple of months ago.
>> What should/can I do?
>>
>> Any advice much appreciated, thank you!
>>
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Klaus
>> --
>> Klaus Major
>> https://www.major-k.de
>> https://www.major-k.de/bass
>> klaus at major-k.de
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From klaus at major-k.de  Sat Aug 10 03:48:40 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2024 09:48:40 +0200
Subject: Android API 34 and Android keystore
In-Reply-To: <1913967be90.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <218F032A-9FE0-4381-AFD0-11629A3EEAC8@major-k.de>
 <6BC1D23E-E1A9-466B-9347-ED6B8AEF14EC@elementarysoftware.com>
 <004301daeaa3$25a96c00$70fc4400$@net>
 <1913967be90.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <228C43E8-F13F-40A5-B7D9-EC3C9E01F112@major-k.de>

Hi all,

thank you for you input, I will now install everything related to API34.
And I will write to GOOGLE support, there MUST be another way for singing the app.
(Fingers crossed) :-/

Thanks to all, have a nice weekend!


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From williamdesmet at gmail.com  Sat Aug 10 03:56:51 2024
From: williamdesmet at gmail.com (William de Smet)
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2024 09:56:51 +0200
Subject: Export snapshot - is it usable on LiveCode web apps?
In-Reply-To: <6DEF60BF-8BBF-456C-8D12-217C7D631093@liverpool.ac.uk>
References: <1DA5481F-8C90-4F6A-8F8C-986D6E959817@liverpool.ac.uk>
 <d5f49680e326203d4237cd169c778080@livecode.com>
 <6DEF60BF-8BBF-456C-8D12-217C7D631093@liverpool.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <CAHFYGn5ErFf3=fP8zx8EcFoRwn5R_qfy7=hS8LX7xVHD1p4j+A@mail.gmail.com>

And in addition to this I have another question:
How do we download this created snapshot in a web browser?



greetings,

William




Op do 8 aug 2024 om 16:48 schreef Jimmieson, Phil via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:

> Hi folks,
> Thanks to everyone who responded to my question. Where else would you get
> such support? And in particular, with what other development system would
> you get one of the actual architects of the system, responding to your
> question? LIveCode is something else.
>
> OK, I have updated my screenshot code. I’m still getting a javascript
> exception, but it looks like it’s now caused by something else that web
> doesn’t like. Something that works ok on iPad. More investigation is
> required...
>
>
> On 8 Aug 2024, at 13:39, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> Caution: This email originated from outside of the University. Do not
> click links or open attachments unless you recognise the source of this
> email and know the content is safe. Check sender address, hover over URLs
> and don't open suspicious email attachments.
>
> On 2024-08-08 10:22, Jimmieson, Phil via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi folks,
> I’m experimenting with converting one of my LiveCode iPad Apps into a web
> version, to see how well it works, but there’s an issue that seems to be a
> deal-breaker. My iPad app takes a screenshot of the LiveCode stack when the
> user navigates away from the main card, so that the image can be used
> elsewhere in the app. This works fine on iPad, but I noticed that the web
> version of the app generates a javascript exception when I try to leave the
> main card. On checking the dictionary, I noticed that the export snapshot
> command is not listed as being supported on web. Is this correct? If so, is
> there an alternative that will work for web?
>
> So 'export snapshot from screen' is not supported - this is the form which
> takes the pixel data from the actual (composited) screen buffer.
>
> However, there is an alternate form which is entirely internal to the
> engine:
>
>   export snapshot from [ rect <rect> of ] <object>
>
> To use the internal form for a card you can do:
>
>   export snapshot from this card
>
> Or if you want a portion of the card:
>
>   export snapshot from rect 0,0,100,100 of this card
>
> Further there is an `at size <width>,<height>` clause which allows you to
> specify the size you want the resulting image.
>
> The difference here is that the internal form replicates the same process
> that the engine uses to render objects to a window - it renders the given
> rectangle of the object into a rect of the specified size (or the size of
> the rect/object if 'at size' is not specified).
>
> In contrast, the 'external' form has to ask the OS for the given rectangle
> of the actual screen's framebuffer.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Mark.
>
> --
> Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Build Amazing Things
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> --
> Phil Jimmieson (He/Him)
> University of Liverpool, Computer Science Department
> Ashton Bldg, Ashton Street, Liverpool. L69 3BX
> 0151 795 4236
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From sean at pidigital.co.uk  Sat Aug 10 10:43:01 2024
From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Sean Cole)
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2024 15:43:01 +0100
Subject: Annual price
In-Reply-To: <3B06C993-0D74-4B67-84AB-2075E39C2932@gmail.com>
References: <CABRqQSQJ=ioTOcLORYDoHedBKUeuQLKaf04y63YFQvR4mtWhGQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <690E07B4-5B19-4B33-A8B0-350CECCCC715@iotecdigital.com>
 <a2f925ccdd52eaea452373c6474cc415@souslelogo.com>
 <3B06C993-0D74-4B67-84AB-2075E39C2932@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABRqQSSzPa=H3GKH5V3By2o4kckiBD8qVrG8LyfY2znKGN+sFg@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry if you were offended, Bob, Paul, et al. Not my intention. Not
intended as a slur against LC either, although, after re-reading it, I can
see how it might appear to be. Sorry again. I AM 'the' *most*
appalling being the universe dust ever formed.

But... It was not a criticism. Perhaps if you re-read it you will note that
it was not calling into question the amount but the way it is displayed.
The page 'should' state clearly at the outset what the yearly price is AND
even perhaps make that number bigger with the equivalent 'monthly' amount
(which doesn't exist as you MUST pay in advance for the whole year - again,
to non-native English speakers may not be immediately obvious) underneath
in smaller text with an asterisk by it that says something like 'not
available as a monthly subscription'.

I was only throwing it out there as I had just received the 'Lone
Ranger/Coder' email and followed the link to the already familiar purchase
page with the two $36.67 offers. I'm not, I repeat, I am NOT disputing the
price as I think it is fair, even the non-30% discounted rate. It's by far
and away the best deal for Livecode I've seen as it covers every platform
and configuration. Even with the multiple-seat dispute, I have no contest
over it. This was an observation of how it is displayed on that page and
that page alone.

I'm off now to hang my head in shame and reflect on how miserable I have
made all your lives by making any comment at all. I humbly look forward to
you tearing me down further as I deserve.

Sean (IQ -5)

On Fri, 9 Aug 2024 at 21:13, Paul Pystcat via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Funny thing is…?  If you choose a license and fill out the form, it will
> tell you the yearly price.
> I agree with you on this one, Bob.
>
[image: GeoTrack]
<https://geotrack.email/?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=viralSignature>
Sender
notified with GeoTrack
<https://geotrack.email/?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=viralSignature>
[image: 43]

From dfe4 at cornell.edu  Sat Aug 10 11:15:55 2024
From: dfe4 at cornell.edu (David Epstein)
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2024 11:15:55 -0400
Subject: Icon id conflicts?
Message-ID: <3165639C-B331-490B-8A13-0E8C2861B307@cornell.edu>

I am moving a project I created in LC 5.5 to LC 10.0rc1.  Some buttons have their icon set to the id of an image found in a stack “in use.”  In some cases, this still works, but several buttons no longer look right in LC10, I assume because the icon number exists somewhere else in LC10.  How can I go about finding and imposing an id number for my image that will not encounter this conflict?

Alternatively, the dictionary says I can use an image name as a button’s icon, but the LC property inspector doesn’t let me enter non-numbers as an icon, and setting the icon to an image name from the message box has no effect (the image named is in a stack “in use”).

David Epstein

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat Aug 10 13:02:06 2024
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2024 12:02:06 -0500
Subject: Icon id conflicts?
In-Reply-To: <3165639C-B331-490B-8A13-0E8C2861B307@cornell.edu>
References: <3165639C-B331-490B-8A13-0E8C2861B307@cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <1913d3d7eb0.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

Did you try using the full path to the image when setting the icon by name 
in the message box?

What I've done in the past is adding 20 or 50 in front of the image ID 
which makes it a number in the thousands, so icon 1243 becomes 501243. That 
allows you to use the inspector, though everything created after that will 
have IDs in the 50 thousands.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On August 10, 2024 10:18:07 AM David Epstein via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I am moving a project I created in LC 5.5 to LC 10.0rc1.  Some buttons have 
> their icon set to the id of an image found in a stack in use.  In some 
> cases, this still works, but several buttons no longer look right in LC10, 
> I assume because the icon number exists somewhere else in LC10.  How can I 
> go about finding and imposing an id number for my image that will not 
> encounter this conflict?
>
> Alternatively, the dictionary says I can use an image name as a buttons 
> icon, but the LC property inspector doesnt let me enter non-numbers as an 
> icon, and setting the icon to an image name from the message box has no 
> effect (the image named is in a stack in use).
>
> David Epstein
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Sat Aug 10 16:05:48 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2024 20:05:48 +0000
Subject: Icon id conflicts?
In-Reply-To: <1913d3d7eb0.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <1913d3d7eb0.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <8E66D7D9-F970-4DA2-AC0D-64D0DB3F84C2@iotecdigital.com>

I agree with Jacque I always use the full path to the image file, and I always put the image on the same card as the button, unless the image is used in multiple buttons, then I put the image on the first card of the stack the button is in. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 10, 2024, at 10:04, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Did you try using the full path to the image when setting the icon by name in the message box?


From curry at pair.com  Sun Aug 11 03:55:10 2024
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2024 03:55:10 -0400
Subject: Annual price
In-Reply-To: <CABRqQSSzPa=H3GKH5V3By2o4kckiBD8qVrG8LyfY2znKGN+sFg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABRqQSSzPa=H3GKH5V3By2o4kckiBD8qVrG8LyfY2znKGN+sFg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <03049055-7ce3-4228-80e1-03907285323b@pair.com>

Sean:

 > I'm off now to hang my head in shame and reflect on how miserable
 > I have made all your lives by making any comment at all. I humbly
 > look forward to you tearing me down further as I deserve.
 > Sean (IQ -5)

You are important - You've made a real difference in coding here.
And such a great sense of humor! :) Have a good weekend.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
"PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
https://livecodeconsulting.com/


From curry at pair.com  Sun Aug 11 04:21:55 2024
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2024 04:21:55 -0400
Subject: Icon id conflicts?
In-Reply-To: <3165639C-B331-490B-8A13-0E8C2861B307@cornell.edu>
References: <3165639C-B331-490B-8A13-0E8C2861B307@cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <f8c9151a-f699-4c0d-a61c-748b1c69f7c7@pair.com>

David:

 > I am moving a project I created in LC 5.5 to LC 10.0rc1....
 > several buttons no longer look right in LC10, I assume because
 > the icon number exists somewhere else in LC10.

See also: 'resolve image' for handy lookup.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development -
"RESURRECT old LC projects! Broken stack? Bring it back."
https://livecodeconsulting.com/


From klaus at major-k.de  Sun Aug 11 07:43:31 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2024 13:43:31 +0200
Subject: revSpeak/speechSpeakutterance?
Message-ID: <B4CE18B2-20A5-48E8-AA31-F4BF6C85AFBA@major-k.de>

Hi friends,

I am currently exploring the revspeak stuff, but the dictionary
does in fact irritate me a lot?

Entry for revSpeak:
Type: command
Syntax: revSpeak phraseToSpeak
Associations: Speech library
Summary: Speaks text through the computer's speakers.Introduced2.0
OS: mac, windows

Entry for speechSpeakUtterance:
Type: handler
Syntax: speechSpeakUtterance(pString)
Associations: Speech Library
Summary: Synthesize text to speech
OS: mac, ios, android

Note the OS differences (while obviously using the SAME library)!?

Is this an error in the dictionary or does the "speechspeak..." stuff
really not work on Windows? Thanks for any insight!


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Aug 12 03:44:15 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2024 09:44:15 +0200
Subject: Android API 34 and Android keystore
In-Reply-To: <1913967be90.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <218F032A-9FE0-4381-AFD0-11629A3EEAC8@major-k.de>
 <6BC1D23E-E1A9-466B-9347-ED6B8AEF14EC@elementarysoftware.com>
 <004301daeaa3$25a96c00$70fc4400$@net>
 <1913967be90.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <F933518B-5DC7-4248-8A87-A21E38F653D0@major-k.de>

Hi all,

I got a response from the Google Play Store and it IS in fact possible
that Google will reset my (upload) key! Just ask nicely. :-)

In case you are interested, I will give you more and detailed info about
this process once I finally mastered all the neccessary steps.


Best from hot germany

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From heather at livecode.com  Mon Aug 12 06:34:54 2024
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2024 11:34:54 +0100
Subject: Live LiveCode Create demo - join us tomorrow
Message-ID: <3729C864-B794-413C-9204-DF8969CE78E0@livecode.com>

Hello List Folks,

Just to make you aware, we are holding an open webinar tomorrow, at 4pm UK time, where we will be demo'ing LiveCode Create and taking questions. If you'd like to take part please go here to sign up:

https://us02web.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_EAjwE614Q9Wi_366Y7b0vw

When you go to this link Zoom will tell you what time it is in your timezone.

Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com





From selander at tkf.att.ne.jp  Mon Aug 12 08:24:45 2024
From: selander at tkf.att.ne.jp (Tim Selander)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2024 21:24:45 +0900
Subject: Live LiveCode Create demo - join us tomorrow
In-Reply-To: <3729C864-B794-413C-9204-DF8969CE78E0@livecode.com>
References: <3729C864-B794-413C-9204-DF8969CE78E0@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <5e802682-bec2-70e7-2f6b-6f6d77b147c4@tkf.att.ne.jp>

Hi Heather,

Being in Japan, the time (midnight) is a little too late for this old 
man! Any chance it will be recorded? I would love to watch it later.

Thanks,

Tim Selander


On 2024/08/12 19:34, Heather Laine via use-livecode wrote:
> Hello List Folks,
> 
> Just to make you aware, we are holding an open webinar tomorrow, at 4pm UK time, where we will be demo'ing LiveCode Create and taking questions. If you'd like to take part please go here to sign up:
> 
> https://us02web.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_EAjwE614Q9Wi_366Y7b0vw
> 
> When you go to this link Zoom will tell you what time it is in your timezone.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Mon Aug 12 09:35:39 2024
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2024 09:35:39 -0400
Subject: Android API 34 and Android keystore
In-Reply-To: <F933518B-5DC7-4248-8A87-A21E38F653D0@major-k.de>
References: <218F032A-9FE0-4381-AFD0-11629A3EEAC8@major-k.de>
 <6BC1D23E-E1A9-466B-9347-ED6B8AEF14EC@elementarysoftware.com>
 <004301daeaa3$25a96c00$70fc4400$@net>
 <1913967be90.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <F933518B-5DC7-4248-8A87-A21E38F653D0@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <002b01daecbc$883c9750$98b5c5f0$@net>

Klaus,

GREAT NEWS! I stand corrected also. Please post the contact and procedure.
This will help all on the list. Thanks for doing the foot work to figure
this out.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
Of Klaus major-k via use-livecode
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2024 3:44 AM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Klaus major-k
Subject: Re: Android API 34 and Android keystore

Hi all,

I got a response from the Google Play Store and it IS in fact possible that
Google will reset my (upload) key! Just ask nicely. :-)

In case you are interested, I will give you more and detailed info about
this process once I finally mastered all the neccessary steps.


Best from hot germany

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de


_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From merakosp at gmail.com  Mon Aug 12 09:36:15 2024
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2024 16:36:15 +0300
Subject: revSpeak/speechSpeakutterance?
In-Reply-To: <B4CE18B2-20A5-48E8-AA31-F4BF6C85AFBA@major-k.de>
References: <B4CE18B2-20A5-48E8-AA31-F4BF6C85AFBA@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq9+eTFBa2i9JN3sZ32AhADLTYWJqN2=qb8x0Uj1JiD9kQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Klaus,

It is not the same library:

- The "revSpeak" one is the old speech library, implemented in the engine
level, available for Windows and macOS

- The "speechSpeakUtterance" is the new speech library, implemented in LCB,
available for macOS, Android, iOS

Also, each one of them has a slightly different feature set - see the
dictionary for more details.

Kind regards,
Panos
--

On Sun, 11 Aug 2024 at 14:44, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi friends,
>
> I am currently exploring the revspeak stuff, but the dictionary
> does in fact irritate me a lot?
>
> Entry for revSpeak:
> Type: command
> Syntax: revSpeak phraseToSpeak
> Associations: Speech library
> Summary: Speaks text through the computer's speakers.Introduced2.0
> OS: mac, windows
>
> Entry for speechSpeakUtterance:
> Type: handler
> Syntax: speechSpeakUtterance(pString)
> Associations: Speech Library
> Summary: Synthesize text to speech
> OS: mac, ios, android
>
> Note the OS differences (while obviously using the SAME library)!?
>
> Is this an error in the dictionary or does the "speechspeak..." stuff
> really not work on Windows? Thanks for any insight!
>
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Aug 12 09:56:51 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2024 15:56:51 +0200
Subject: revSpeak/speechSpeakutterance?
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq9+eTFBa2i9JN3sZ32AhADLTYWJqN2=qb8x0Uj1JiD9kQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B4CE18B2-20A5-48E8-AA31-F4BF6C85AFBA@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq9+eTFBa2i9JN3sZ32AhADLTYWJqN2=qb8x0Uj1JiD9kQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABB3D4B-536B-4CEA-8F81-E0CD219154FA@major-k.de>

Hi Panos,

> Am 12.08.2024 um 15:36 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hello Klaus,
> 
> It is not the same library:
> - The "revSpeak" one is the old speech library, implemented in the engine
> level, available for Windows and macOS
> - The "speechSpeakUtterance" is the new speech library, implemented in LCB,
> available for macOS, Android, iOS

ah, I see, thank you for clarification!

But then this should be made clear in the dictionary!
Entry for revSpeak:
...
Associations: Speech library
...

And:
...
Entry for speechSpeakUtterance:
...
Associations: Speech Library
...

See what I mean? That was puzzling me. :-)

> Also, each one of them has a slightly different feature set - see the
> dictionary for more details.
> 
> Kind regards,
> Panos
> --
> 
> On Sun, 11 Aug 2024 at 14:44, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hi friends,
>> 
>> I am currently exploring the revspeak stuff, but the dictionary
>> does in fact irritate me a lot?
>> 
>> Entry for revSpeak:
>> Type: command
>> Syntax: revSpeak phraseToSpeak
>> Associations: Speech library
>> Summary: Speaks text through the computer's speakers.Introduced2.0
>> OS: mac, windows
>> 
>> Entry for speechSpeakUtterance:
>> Type: handler
>> Syntax: speechSpeakUtterance(pString)
>> Associations: Speech Library
>> Summary: Synthesize text to speech
>> OS: mac, ios, android
>> 
>> Note the OS differences (while obviously using the SAME library)!?
>> 
>> Is this an error in the dictionary or does the "speechspeak..." stuff
>> really not work on Windows? Thanks for any insight!

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From merakosp at gmail.com  Mon Aug 12 10:23:30 2024
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2024 17:23:30 +0300
Subject: revSpeak/speechSpeakutterance?
In-Reply-To: <CABB3D4B-536B-4CEA-8F81-E0CD219154FA@major-k.de>
References: <B4CE18B2-20A5-48E8-AA31-F4BF6C85AFBA@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq9+eTFBa2i9JN3sZ32AhADLTYWJqN2=qb8x0Uj1JiD9kQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABB3D4B-536B-4CEA-8F81-E0CD219154FA@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq9MWYVWF-99KuQn7YrOO2CBoUu5isStKtWBt25c4R2HpA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Klaus,

Yes, indeed, we should make it clearer :)

Kind regards,
Panos
--

On Mon, 12 Aug 2024 at 16:58, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Panos,
>
> > Am 12.08.2024 um 15:36 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> >
> > Hello Klaus,
> >
> > It is not the same library:
> > - The "revSpeak" one is the old speech library, implemented in the engine
> > level, available for Windows and macOS
> > - The "speechSpeakUtterance" is the new speech library, implemented in
> LCB,
> > available for macOS, Android, iOS
>
> ah, I see, thank you for clarification!
>
> But then this should be made clear in the dictionary!
> Entry for revSpeak:
> ...
> Associations: Speech library
> ...
>
> And:
> ...
> Entry for speechSpeakUtterance:
> ...
> Associations: Speech Library
> ...
>
> See what I mean? That was puzzling me. :-)
>
> > Also, each one of them has a slightly different feature set - see the
> > dictionary for more details.
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > Panos
> > --
> >
> > On Sun, 11 Aug 2024 at 14:44, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi friends,
> >>
> >> I am currently exploring the revspeak stuff, but the dictionary
> >> does in fact irritate me a lot?
> >>
> >> Entry for revSpeak:
> >> Type: command
> >> Syntax: revSpeak phraseToSpeak
> >> Associations: Speech library
> >> Summary: Speaks text through the computer's speakers.Introduced2.0
> >> OS: mac, windows
> >>
> >> Entry for speechSpeakUtterance:
> >> Type: handler
> >> Syntax: speechSpeakUtterance(pString)
> >> Associations: Speech Library
> >> Summary: Synthesize text to speech
> >> OS: mac, ios, android
> >>
> >> Note the OS differences (while obviously using the SAME library)!?
> >>
> >> Is this an error in the dictionary or does the "speechspeak..." stuff
> >> really not work on Windows? Thanks for any insight!
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
>
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From prothero at ucsb.edu  Mon Aug 12 11:33:15 2024
From: prothero at ucsb.edu (William Prothero)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2024 08:33:15 -0700
Subject: Live LiveCode Create demo - join us tomorrow
In-Reply-To: <5e802682-bec2-70e7-2f6b-6f6d77b147c4@tkf.att.ne.jp>
References: <5e802682-bec2-70e7-2f6b-6f6d77b147c4@tkf.att.ne.jp>
Message-ID: <99326652-F477-4A3F-A86B-8D3BFF1B2324@ucsb.edu>

me, too,
Bill Prothero 
William A. Prothero, PhD
Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science
University of California, Santa Barbara

> On Aug 12, 2024, at 5:25 AM, Tim Selander via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Heather,
> 
> Being in Japan, the time (midnight) is a little too late for this old man! Any chance it will be recorded? I would love to watch it later.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Tim Selander
> 
> 
>> On 2024/08/12 19:34, Heather Laine via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hello List Folks,
>> Just to make you aware, we are holding an open webinar tomorrow, at 4pm UK time, where we will be demo'ing LiveCode Create and taking questions. If you'd like to take part please go here to sign up:
>> https://us02web.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_EAjwE614Q9Wi_366Y7b0vw
>> When you go to this link Zoom will tell you what time it is in your timezone.
>> Best Regards,
>> Heather
>> Heather Laine
>> Customer Services Manager
>> LiveCode Ltd
>> www.livecode.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Mon Aug 12 11:42:34 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2024 15:42:34 +0000
Subject: revSpeak/speechSpeakutterance?
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq9+eTFBa2i9JN3sZ32AhADLTYWJqN2=qb8x0Uj1JiD9kQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B4CE18B2-20A5-48E8-AA31-F4BF6C85AFBA@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq9+eTFBa2i9JN3sZ32AhADLTYWJqN2=qb8x0Uj1JiD9kQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5014404B-8C6E-4E22-86BF-525D35EB3E92@iotecdigital.com>

revSpeak works, speechSpeakUtterance does not. 

Bob S


> On Aug 12, 2024, at 6:36 AM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello Klaus,
> 
> It is not the same library:
> 
> - The "revSpeak" one is the old speech library, implemented in the engine
> level, available for Windows and macOS
> 
> - The "speechSpeakUtterance" is the new speech library, implemented in LCB,
> available for macOS, Android, iOS
> 
> Also, each one of them has a slightly different feature set - see the
> dictionary for more details.
> 
> Kind regards,
> Panos
> --
> 
> On Sun, 11 Aug 2024 at 14:44, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hi friends,
>> 
>> I am currently exploring the revspeak stuff, but the dictionary
>> does in fact irritate me a lot?
>> 
>> Entry for revSpeak:
>> Type: command
>> Syntax: revSpeak phraseToSpeak
>> Associations: Speech library
>> Summary: Speaks text through the computer's speakers.Introduced2.0
>> OS: mac, windows
>> 
>> Entry for speechSpeakUtterance:
>> Type: handler
>> Syntax: speechSpeakUtterance(pString)
>> Associations: Speech Library
>> Summary: Synthesize text to speech
>> OS: mac, ios, android
>> 
>> Note the OS differences (while obviously using the SAME library)!?
>> 
>> Is this an error in the dictionary or does the "speechspeak..." stuff
>> really not work on Windows? Thanks for any insight!
>> 
>> 
>> Best
>> 
>> Klaus
>> --
>> Klaus Major
>> https://www.major-k.de
>> https://www.major-k.de/bass
>> klaus at major-k.de
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Mon Aug 12 12:00:32 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2024 16:00:32 +0000
Subject: revSpeak/speechSpeakutterance?
In-Reply-To: <5014404B-8C6E-4E22-86BF-525D35EB3E92@iotecdigital.com>
References: <B4CE18B2-20A5-48E8-AA31-F4BF6C85AFBA@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq9+eTFBa2i9JN3sZ32AhADLTYWJqN2=qb8x0Uj1JiD9kQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5014404B-8C6E-4E22-86BF-525D35EB3E92@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <1F58FD2F-5223-4388-8188-90078376FC49@iotecdigital.com>

OIC it only works in Livecode Builder. NVM.

Bob S


On Aug 12, 2024, at 8:42 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

revSpeak works, speechSpeakUtterance does not.

Bob S


On Aug 12, 2024, at 6:36 AM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

Hello Klaus,

It is not the same library:

- The "revSpeak" one is the old speech library, implemented in the engine
level, available for Windows and macOS

- The "speechSpeakUtterance" is the new speech library, implemented in LCB,
available for macOS, Android, iOS

Also, each one of them has a slightly different feature set - see the
dictionary for more details.

Kind regards,
Panos


From merakosp at gmail.com  Mon Aug 12 13:04:10 2024
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2024 20:04:10 +0300
Subject: revSpeak/speechSpeakutterance?
In-Reply-To: <1F58FD2F-5223-4388-8188-90078376FC49@iotecdigital.com>
References: <B4CE18B2-20A5-48E8-AA31-F4BF6C85AFBA@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq9+eTFBa2i9JN3sZ32AhADLTYWJqN2=qb8x0Uj1JiD9kQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5014404B-8C6E-4E22-86BF-525D35EB3E92@iotecdigital.com>
 <1F58FD2F-5223-4388-8188-90078376FC49@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq_YyYtmc=nDXT0-PNZ+_sSbCkPrZ1hJZf7o=gyhS67BNA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Bob,

The speechSpeakUtterance should work. The library is *implemented *in LCB,
but its handlers (such as "speechSpeakUtterance") should be called from LCS
(LiveCode Script)

Make sure you initialize the library first by calling
speechInitializeLibrary.
See the dictionary for more details.

Kind regards,
Panos
--




On Mon, 12 Aug 2024 at 19:01, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> OIC it only works in Livecode Builder. NVM.
>
> Bob S
>
>
> On Aug 12, 2024, at 8:42 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> revSpeak works, speechSpeakUtterance does not.
>
> Bob S
>
>
> On Aug 12, 2024, at 6:36 AM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>
> wrote:
>
> Hello Klaus,
>
> It is not the same library:
>
> - The "revSpeak" one is the old speech library, implemented in the engine
> level, available for Windows and macOS
>
> - The "speechSpeakUtterance" is the new speech library, implemented in LCB,
> available for macOS, Android, iOS
>
> Also, each one of them has a slightly different feature set - see the
> dictionary for more details.
>
> Kind regards,
> Panos
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From heather at livecode.com  Mon Aug 12 13:05:41 2024
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2024 18:05:41 +0100
Subject: Live LiveCode Create demo - join us tomorrow
In-Reply-To: <99326652-F477-4A3F-A86B-8D3BFF1B2324@ucsb.edu>
References: <5e802682-bec2-70e7-2f6b-6f6d77b147c4@tkf.att.ne.jp>
 <99326652-F477-4A3F-A86B-8D3BFF1B2324@ucsb.edu>
Message-ID: <20DE6D0B-5382-4566-B795-85104C2F5BF1@livecode.com>

We'll record it. If you register for the webinar you will get access to the recording.

Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 12 Aug 2024, at 16:33, William Prothero via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> me, too,
> Bill Prothero 
> William A. Prothero, PhD
> Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science
> University of California, Santa Barbara
> 
>> On Aug 12, 2024, at 5:25 AM, Tim Selander via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Heather,
>> 
>> Being in Japan, the time (midnight) is a little too late for this old man! Any chance it will be recorded? I would love to watch it later.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Tim Selander
>> 
>> 
>>> On 2024/08/12 19:34, Heather Laine via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Hello List Folks,
>>> Just to make you aware, we are holding an open webinar tomorrow, at 4pm UK time, where we will be demo'ing LiveCode Create and taking questions. If you'd like to take part please go here to sign up:
>>> https://us02web.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_EAjwE614Q9Wi_366Y7b0vw
>>> When you go to this link Zoom will tell you what time it is in your timezone.
>>> Best Regards,
>>> Heather
>>> Heather Laine
>>> Customer Services Manager
>>> LiveCode Ltd
>>> www.livecode.com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Mon Aug 12 13:14:42 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2024 17:14:42 +0000
Subject: revSpeak/speechSpeakutterance?
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq_YyYtmc=nDXT0-PNZ+_sSbCkPrZ1hJZf7o=gyhS67BNA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B4CE18B2-20A5-48E8-AA31-F4BF6C85AFBA@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq9+eTFBa2i9JN3sZ32AhADLTYWJqN2=qb8x0Uj1JiD9kQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5014404B-8C6E-4E22-86BF-525D35EB3E92@iotecdigital.com>
 <1F58FD2F-5223-4388-8188-90078376FC49@iotecdigital.com>
 <CA+JfEq_YyYtmc=nDXT0-PNZ+_sSbCkPrZ1hJZf7o=gyhS67BNA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7DB6C5C2-CE41-41E3-8562-BD08FFDF2AC1@iotecdigital.com>

Thanks. As usual, I didn’t read the manual. It works, but I can’t get or change the voices. Not sure if I can get more voices. I tried, “I’m sorry Dave, I’m afraid I can’t let you do that.” but it sounded like Hal had most of his modules removed already. ;-)

I will poke around on the internet.

Bob S


On Aug 12, 2024, at 10:04 AM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

Hello Bob,

The speechSpeakUtterance should work. The library is *implemented *in LCB,
but its handlers (such as "speechSpeakUtterance") should be called from LCS
(LiveCode Script)

Make sure you initialize the library first by calling
speechInitializeLibrary.
See the dictionary for more details.

Kind regards,
Panos
--




On Mon, 12 Aug 2024 at 19:01, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

OIC it only works in Livecode Builder. NVM.

Bob S


On Aug 12, 2024, at 8:42 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

revSpeak works, speechSpeakUtterance does not.

Bob S


On Aug 12, 2024, at 6:36 AM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com><mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>
wrote:

Hello Klaus,

It is not the same library:

- The "revSpeak" one is the old speech library, implemented in the engine
level, available for Windows and macOS

- The "speechSpeakUtterance" is the new speech library, implemented in LCB,
available for macOS, Android, iOS

Also, each one of them has a slightly different feature set - see the
dictionary for more details.

Kind regards,
Panos

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From mkoob at rogers.com  Mon Aug 12 17:29:11 2024
From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2024 17:29:11 -0400
Subject: Live LiveCode Create demo - join us tomorrow
In-Reply-To: <20DE6D0B-5382-4566-B795-85104C2F5BF1@livecode.com>
References: <5e802682-bec2-70e7-2f6b-6f6d77b147c4@tkf.att.ne.jp>
 <99326652-F477-4A3F-A86B-8D3BFF1B2324@ucsb.edu>
 <20DE6D0B-5382-4566-B795-85104C2F5BF1@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <3ABB2DC8-EC1F-4A97-873E-D1EAED9C30A4@rogers.com>

Hi

Congratulations to Kevin and the team on getting to this point with LiveCode Create!

I will have to miss the webinar too.  I have a conflict with a work meeting then…  Stupid work meeting!  
               
 |             |
 |   Grrrr     |
 |             |
     |/
   😠
So this is not a critisim nor a demand, just a wish.   I wish there was a matinee demo - a second chance on a diferent day and a different time to see the Live Demo of the latest update with the new features and to be able ask questions regarding those.  

I know there is a lot of work around hosting these and then a staff person or 2 (and probably plus Heather or Kevin) has to get up early or stay up late.

So I will watch the recording and send my questions.  

Where should I direct my support queries now that LC Create has been launched?
Where should bug reports be posted from this point on.

Best regards,

Martin Koob

> On Aug 12, 2024, at 1:05 PM, Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> We'll record it. If you register for the webinar you will get access to the recording.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On 12 Aug 2024, at 16:33, William Prothero via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> me, too,
>> Bill Prothero 
>> William A. Prothero, PhD
>> Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science
>> University of California, Santa Barbara
>> 
>>> On Aug 12, 2024, at 5:25 AM, Tim Selander via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Heather,
>>> 
>>> Being in Japan, the time (midnight) is a little too late for this old man! Any chance it will be recorded? I would love to watch it later.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> Tim Selander
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 2024/08/12 19:34, Heather Laine via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> Hello List Folks,
>>>> Just to make you aware, we are holding an open webinar tomorrow, at 4pm UK time, where we will be demo'ing LiveCode Create and taking questions. If you'd like to take part please go here to sign up:
>>>> https://us02web.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_EAjwE614Q9Wi_366Y7b0vw
>>>> When you go to this link Zoom will tell you what time it is in your timezone.
>>>> Best Regards,
>>>> Heather
>>>> Heather Laine
>>>> Customer Services Manager
>>>> LiveCode Ltd
>>>> www.livecode.com
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From heather at livecode.com  Tue Aug 13 06:14:56 2024
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2024 11:14:56 +0100
Subject: Live LiveCode Create demo - join us tomorrow
In-Reply-To: <3ABB2DC8-EC1F-4A97-873E-D1EAED9C30A4@rogers.com>
References: <5e802682-bec2-70e7-2f6b-6f6d77b147c4@tkf.att.ne.jp>
 <99326652-F477-4A3F-A86B-8D3BFF1B2324@ucsb.edu>
 <20DE6D0B-5382-4566-B795-85104C2F5BF1@livecode.com>
 <3ABB2DC8-EC1F-4A97-873E-D1EAED9C30A4@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <0ECAB7D8-6240-470F-882D-833E3DCB8237@livecode.com>

Thanks Martin. We'll have a think whether we can do a repeat at a different time.

Support queries still go to support at livecode.com.

Feedback, bug reports and discussion around LiveCode Create specifically go here:

https://discourse.livecode.com

Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 12 Aug 2024, at 22:29, Martin Koob via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi
> 
> Congratulations to Kevin and the team on getting to this point with LiveCode Create!
> 
> I will have to miss the webinar too.  I have a conflict with a work meeting then…  Stupid work meeting!  
> 
> |             |
> |   Grrrr     |
> |             |
>     |/
>   😠
> So this is not a critisim nor a demand, just a wish.   I wish there was a matinee demo - a second chance on a diferent day and a different time to see the Live Demo of the latest update with the new features and to be able ask questions regarding those.  
> 
> I know there is a lot of work around hosting these and then a staff person or 2 (and probably plus Heather or Kevin) has to get up early or stay up late.
> 
> So I will watch the recording and send my questions.  
> 
> Where should I direct my support queries now that LC Create has been launched?
> Where should bug reports be posted from this point on.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Martin Koob
> 
>> On Aug 12, 2024, at 1:05 PM, Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> We'll record it. If you register for the webinar you will get access to the recording.
>> 
>> Best Regards,
>> 
>> Heather
>> 
>> Heather Laine
>> Customer Services Manager
>> LiveCode Ltd
>> www.livecode.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 12 Aug 2024, at 16:33, William Prothero via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> me, too,
>>> Bill Prothero 
>>> William A. Prothero, PhD
>>> Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science
>>> University of California, Santa Barbara
>>> 
>>>> On Aug 12, 2024, at 5:25 AM, Tim Selander via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Heather,
>>>> 
>>>> Being in Japan, the time (midnight) is a little too late for this old man! Any chance it will be recorded? I would love to watch it later.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> 
>>>> Tim Selander
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On 2024/08/12 19:34, Heather Laine via use-livecode wrote:
>>>>> Hello List Folks,
>>>>> Just to make you aware, we are holding an open webinar tomorrow, at 4pm UK time, where we will be demo'ing LiveCode Create and taking questions. If you'd like to take part please go here to sign up:
>>>>> https://us02web.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_EAjwE614Q9Wi_366Y7b0vw
>>>>> When you go to this link Zoom will tell you what time it is in your timezone.
>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>> Heather
>>>>> Heather Laine
>>>>> Customer Services Manager
>>>>> LiveCode Ltd
>>>>> www.livecode.com
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From curry at pair.com  Tue Aug 13 07:20:11 2024
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2024 07:20:11 -0400
Subject: Live LiveCode Create demo - Application Payments portal
In-Reply-To: <20DE6D0B-5382-4566-B795-85104C2F5BF1@livecode.com>
References: <20DE6D0B-5382-4566-B795-85104C2F5BF1@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <390f0894-2a70-47e6-94c7-82fa361b0059@pair.com>


I also cannot attend a Zoom meeting now -

My watch-later absentee request:

Please demo the Application Payments portal interface/process to:

- 'upload your monthly sales figures' including
- 'the monthly reports from the app store/s you are shipping through.'

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
"PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
https://livecodeconsulting.com/


From alexm at cogapp.com  Tue Aug 13 08:32:39 2024
From: alexm at cogapp.com (Alex Morrison)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2024 13:32:39 +0100
Subject: Difficulty making a Mac app that works on another laptop
Message-ID: <8369F85D-37D2-4E74-893A-1F844A8C6656@cogapp.com>

Hi there,

I’m a LiveCode licensee with a Mac runtime license trying to make a desktop app that I can distribute to a few other people. 

I’ve adjusted all the obvious settings and made an app. The resulting app works fine on my own laptop, no problem. 

But when I send it to another laptop it won’t launch. The system throws a dialog which says: 

‘The application "my app" can’t be opened.’ 

Have tried right-click ‘Open’ and it’s no better. Same dialog. 

Taking the same LiveCode stack and making what feels like it should be an identical app with the same settings on my colleague Ben’s LiveCode system (he’s also a LiveCode licensee with a Mac runtime license), the app works fine on a different laptop. Right-click ‘Open’ works as it should. 

I’m a bit baffled. Any suggestions? 

all best

Alex

P.S. Just to say how grateful I am to Kevin and the mighty LiveCode team for such a great product over so many years. Thank you. Thank you. 

—

cogapp

building a better online world

Alex Morrison
Founder/Director
(he/him)

cogapp.com <https://www.cogapp.com/>

From alex at tweedly.net  Tue Aug 13 09:08:59 2024
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2024 14:08:59 +0100
Subject: Live LiveCode Create demo - join us tomorrow
In-Reply-To: <0ECAB7D8-6240-470F-882D-833E3DCB8237@livecode.com>
References: <5e802682-bec2-70e7-2f6b-6f6d77b147c4@tkf.att.ne.jp>
 <99326652-F477-4A3F-A86B-8D3BFF1B2324@ucsb.edu>
 <20DE6D0B-5382-4566-B795-85104C2F5BF1@livecode.com>
 <3ABB2DC8-EC1F-4A97-873E-D1EAED9C30A4@rogers.com>
 <0ECAB7D8-6240-470F-882D-833E3DCB8237@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <f552bccf-f1d2-46b8-92a8-1216a9128952@tweedly.net>


On 13/08/2024 11:14, Heather Laine via use-livecode wrote:
> Thanks Martin. We'll have a think whether we can do a repeat at a different time.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Heather
>
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com

Rather than an entire repeat, maybe just have a Q&A session for those 
who couldn't attend the original, but have watched the recording. Should 
be just as effective, and less resource intensive.

Alex.




From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Tue Aug 13 09:34:35 2024
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2024 15:34:35 +0200
Subject: Difficulty making a Mac app that works on another laptop
In-Reply-To: <8369F85D-37D2-4E74-893A-1F844A8C6656@cogapp.com>
References: <8369F85D-37D2-4E74-893A-1F844A8C6656@cogapp.com>
Message-ID: <86C77D08-934C-42ED-99C7-31003993CDB4@m-r-d.de>

Does the app, which was created on your colleagues computer run on your Mac?
Do all Macs have the same OS installed? Do you both have the same version of LC installed?
Did you already check the settings under Privacy&Security?.


Von meinem iPad gesendet

> Am 13.08.2024 um 14:34 schrieb Alex Morrison via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi there,
> 
> I’m a LiveCode licensee with a Mac runtime license trying to make a desktop app that I can distribute to a few other people.
> 
> I’ve adjusted all the obvious settings and made an app. The resulting app works fine on my own laptop, no problem.
> 
> But when I send it to another laptop it won’t launch. The system throws a dialog which says:
> 
> ‘The application "my app" can’t be opened.’
> 
> Have tried right-click ‘Open’ and it’s no better. Same dialog.
> 
> Taking the same LiveCode stack and making what feels like it should be an identical app with the same settings on my colleague Ben’s LiveCode system (he’s also a LiveCode licensee with a Mac runtime license), the app works fine on a different laptop. Right-click ‘Open’ works as it should.
> 
> I’m a bit baffled. Any suggestions?
> 
> all best
> 
> Alex
> 
> P.S. Just to say how grateful I am to Kevin and the mighty LiveCode team for such a great product over so many years. Thank you. Thank you.
> 
> —
> 
> cogapp
> 
> building a better online world
> 
> Alex Morrison
> Founder/Director
> (he/him)
> 
> cogapp.com <https://www.cogapp.com/>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From craig at starfirelighting.com  Tue Aug 13 10:00:34 2024
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2024 10:00:34 -0400
Subject: Difficulty making a Mac app that works on another laptop
In-Reply-To: <86C77D08-934C-42ED-99C7-31003993CDB4@m-r-d.de>
References: <8369F85D-37D2-4E74-893A-1F844A8C6656@cogapp.com>
 <86C77D08-934C-42ED-99C7-31003993CDB4@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <888D0321-A83A-42F0-9737-D5C25A6BC177@starfirelighting.com>

Matthias:

"Does the app, which was created on your colleagues computer run on your Mac?”

The OP said he developed the app on his own machine.

Craig

> On Aug 13, 2024, at 9:34 AM, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Does the app, which was created on your colleagues computer run on your Mac?


From smk at anvic.net  Tue Aug 13 10:09:38 2024
From: smk at anvic.net (Simon Knight)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2024 15:09:38 +0100
Subject: Difficulty making a Mac app that works on another laptop
In-Reply-To: <8369F85D-37D2-4E74-893A-1F844A8C6656@cogapp.com>
References: <8369F85D-37D2-4E74-893A-1F844A8C6656@cogapp.com>
Message-ID: <B5BE18A3-8F02-4A56-BA4D-88446ACA1D81@anvic.net>

Hi,
Does the built application icon look as it should?'
Are the laptops all using the same chip set e.g. powerpc, intel or Arm?
Are the build settings correct?
Can you view package contents?

S

> On 13 Aug 2024, at 13:32, Alex Morrison via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi there,
> 
> I’m a LiveCode licensee with a Mac runtime license trying to make a desktop app that I can distribute to a few other people. 
> 
> I’ve adjusted all the obvious settings and made an app. The resulting app works fine on my own laptop, no problem. 
> 
> But when I send it to another laptop it won’t launch. The system throws a dialog which says: 
> 
> ‘The application "my app" can’t be opened.’ 
> 
> Have tried right-click ‘Open’ and it’s no better. Same dialog. 
> 
> Taking the same LiveCode stack and making what feels like it should be an identical app with the same settings on my colleague Ben’s LiveCode system (he’s also a LiveCode licensee with a Mac runtime license), the app works fine on a different laptop. Right-click ‘Open’ works as it should. 
> 
> I’m a bit baffled. Any suggestions? 
> 
> all best
> 
> Alex
> 
> P.S. Just to say how grateful I am to Kevin and the mighty LiveCode team for such a great product over so many years. Thank you. Thank you. 
> 
> —
> 
> cogapp
> 
> building a better online world
> 
> Alex Morrison
> Founder/Director
> (he/him)
> 
> cogapp.com <https://www.cogapp.com/>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Tue Aug 13 10:14:04 2024
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2024 16:14:04 +0200
Subject: Difficulty making a Mac app that works on another laptop
In-Reply-To: <888D0321-A83A-42F0-9737-D5C25A6BC177@starfirelighting.com>
References: <888D0321-A83A-42F0-9737-D5C25A6BC177@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <18213B94-0422-4EF7-8491-C97C9FB7E14C@m-r-d.de>

He also said, that  building the app on his colleagues Livecode installation creates an app that can be opened on his colleagues computer. And i wanted to know if that app can also be opened on the OP‘s computer. 

Von meinem iPad gesendet

> Am 13.08.2024 um 16:02 schrieb Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Matthias:
> 
> "Does the app, which was created on your colleagues computer run on your Mac?”
> 
> The OP said he developed the app on his own machine.
> 
> Craig
> 
>> On Aug 13, 2024, at 9:34 AM, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Does the app, which was created on your colleagues computer run on your Mac?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From georges at caen.one  Tue Aug 13 10:15:09 2024
From: georges at caen.one (Georges Malamoud)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2024 16:15:09 +0200
Subject: Difficulty making a Mac app that works on another laptop
In-Reply-To: <ACA21DED-7A02-4351-98B6-C24ED7886ECC@caen.one>
References: <46af36ff0f63bf8de9e97383565f6728@caen.one>
 <ACA21DED-7A02-4351-98B6-C24ED7886ECC@caen.one>
Message-ID: <EBED4F6F-6F98-4D46-B665-560B117F6965@caen.one>

Hello
It is a standard issue on Mac. Apple protects their systems for non officially code signed apps.
There are some procedures to circumvent this with your app
- if you are an Apple official developer (like me) you have to include a developer certificate in you app
instructions here
https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/c/246840
including
https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1088036-signing-and-notarizing-macos-apps-for-gatekeeper
or better yet
https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1122100-codesigning-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore-with-xcode-10-to-12
- if you are not… there are some solutions via Google (code signing Mac app) or here 
https://signmycode.com/resources/code-signing-with-mac-codesign-utility
but you must know what tou do


> But when I send it to another laptop it won’t launch. The system throws a dialog which says: 
> 
> ‘The application "my app" can’t be opened.’

From colinholgate at gmail.com  Tue Aug 13 12:41:35 2024
From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2024 10:41:35 -0600
Subject: Difficulty making a Mac app that works on another laptop
In-Reply-To: <EBED4F6F-6F98-4D46-B665-560B117F6965@caen.one>
References: <46af36ff0f63bf8de9e97383565f6728@caen.one>
 <ACA21DED-7A02-4351-98B6-C24ED7886ECC@caen.one>
 <EBED4F6F-6F98-4D46-B665-560B117F6965@caen.one>
Message-ID: <67BA4949-CF45-41D1-B868-889FC7A110A9@gmail.com>

I tried a standalone app on another computer, and sure enough got the message about it not being able to open. But, the usual work around of right-click, Open, does work.

From stephen at barncard.com  Tue Aug 13 13:11:11 2024
From: stephen at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2024 10:11:11 -0700
Subject: Live LiveCode Create demo - Application Payments portal
In-Reply-To: <390f0894-2a70-47e6-94c7-82fa361b0059@pair.com>
References: <20DE6D0B-5382-4566-B795-85104C2F5BF1@livecode.com>
 <390f0894-2a70-47e6-94c7-82fa361b0059@pair.com>
Message-ID: <CAFmQfHLQff0M01tkjZg6L47TgVi1s_0+Z1+GxNS4GCXZjJQ9AA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi gang,
I missed the webinar. I have been working on the other side of the clock.
Is it possible to see a recording?

sqb
--
Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA -
mixstream.org


On Tue, Aug 13, 2024 at 4:21 AM Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>
> I also cannot attend a Zoom meeting now -
>
> My watch-later absentee request:
>
> Please demo the Application Payments portal interface/process to:
>
> - 'upload your monthly sales figures' including
> - 'the monthly reports from the app store/s you are shipping through.'
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Curry Kenworthy
>
> Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
> "PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
> https://livecodeconsulting.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Tue Aug 13 13:19:47 2024
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2024 18:19:47 +0100
Subject: Live LiveCode Create demo - Application Payments portal
In-Reply-To: <CAFmQfHLQff0M01tkjZg6L47TgVi1s_0+Z1+GxNS4GCXZjJQ9AA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFmQfHLQff0M01tkjZg6L47TgVi1s_0+Z1+GxNS4GCXZjJQ9AA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D2692738-F442-4D5E-B58A-9C6ECB8E1A86@gmail.com>

Hi Stephen, I’ll jump in for Heather. If you registered you will be sent a link to the recording (she said). It was a good demonstration and answered a lot of questions.

Mark

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 13, 2024, at 6:12 PM, Stephen Barncard via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi gang,
> I missed the webinar. I have been working on the other side of the clock.
> Is it possible to see a recording?
> 
> sqb
> --
> Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA -
> mixstream.org
> 
> 
>> On Tue, Aug 13, 2024 at 4:21 AM Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> I also cannot attend a Zoom meeting now -
>> 
>> My watch-later absentee request:
>> 
>> Please demo the Application Payments portal interface/process to:
>> 
>> - 'upload your monthly sales figures' including
>> - 'the monthly reports from the app store/s you are shipping through.'
>> 
>> Best wishes,
>> 
>> Curry Kenworthy
>> 
>> Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
>> "PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
>> https://livecodeconsulting.com/
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From benr_mc at cogapp.com  Tue Aug 13 16:24:59 2024
From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2024 21:24:59 +0100
Subject: A Windows weirdness
Message-ID: <c9586a20-db21-4824-8bb9-a0814010e8c9@cogapp.com>

An app running nightly by schedule on a Windows VM stopped working when the IT 
department cracked down on security, downgrading the privileges of the user. 
When this was reversed - and they swore there were no other changes - it still 
didn't work properly because it failed to read some local data files.

It turned out that the issue was that I was reading the data as
	put URL format("binfile://%s", tPath) into tData

this was working, but now returned "can't open file". Changing the statement to
	put URL format("binfile:%s", tPath) into tData

fixed the issue, so it's fine. But my question would be does anyone know what 
would have changed on the system to make this statement, that used to work, do 
so no longer?

Many thanks,

Ben


From paul at researchware.com  Tue Aug 13 16:42:49 2024
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2024 16:42:49 -0400
Subject: A Windows weirdness
In-Reply-To: <c9586a20-db21-4824-8bb9-a0814010e8c9@cogapp.com>
References: <c9586a20-db21-4824-8bb9-a0814010e8c9@cogapp.com>
Message-ID: <44c4bdc0-b831-4733-9a52-a5ad34ccc334@researchware.com>

I'm guessing here:

Paths on local Windows systems are typically 
driveletter:folder\folder\...\file.extension
Window scan use UNC paths, such as:

|\\Server2\Share\Test\Foo.txt|
||
When we had our first customer who was extensively using UNC paths, our 
software broke until we updated it to allow for both style of Windows 
paths to be handled properly.

Windows backslash \ gets converted to a / in most LC file paths (for 
example, the result of a open or save file dialog

Perhaps the IT did something to require only UNC paths and the // after 
the binfile had it look for a server rather than a local file?


On 8/13/2024 4:24 PM, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode wrote:
> An app running nightly by schedule on a Windows VM stopped working 
> when the IT department cracked down on security, downgrading the 
> privileges of the user. When this was reversed - and they swore there 
> were no other changes - it still didn't work properly because it 
> failed to read some local data files.
>
> It turned out that the issue was that I was reading the data as
>     put URL format("binfile://%s", tPath) into tData
>
> this was working, but now returned "can't open file". Changing the 
> statement to
>     put URL format("binfile:%s", tPath) into tData
>
> fixed the issue, so it's fine. But my question would be does anyone 
> know what would have changed on the system to make this statement, 
> that used to work, do so no longer?
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Ben
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

From mark at livecode.com  Wed Aug 14 04:07:06 2024
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2024 09:07:06 +0100
Subject: A Windows weirdness
In-Reply-To: <c9586a20-db21-4824-8bb9-a0814010e8c9@cogapp.com>
References: <c9586a20-db21-4824-8bb9-a0814010e8c9@cogapp.com>
Message-ID: <c6dbb001df2c632897d061e2605b55e1@livecode.com>

On 2024-08-13 21:24, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode wrote:
> It turned out that the issue was that I was reading the data as
> 	put URL format("binfile://%s", tPath) into tData
> 
> this was working, but now returned "can't open file". Changing the 
> statement to
> 	put URL format("binfile:%s", tPath) into tData

Can you give some examples of what tPath is in these circumstances? Just 
to see what sort of paths the engine would have actually have been 
passing to Windows.

> fixed the issue, so it's fine. But my question would be does anyone 
> know what would have changed on the system to make this statement, that 
> used to work, do so no longer?

I suspect Paul is right that this is UNC related - there have been some 
security options added related to UNC paths to windows (buried somewhere 
in the registry) so it could be that but I'm not 100% sure (I'll do some 
experimentation later on).

What version of Windows does the afflicted machine have?

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things


From heather at livecode.com  Wed Aug 14 13:12:33 2024
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2024 18:12:33 +0100
Subject: Live LiveCode Create demo - Application Payments portal
In-Reply-To: <CAFmQfHLQff0M01tkjZg6L47TgVi1s_0+Z1+GxNS4GCXZjJQ9AA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20DE6D0B-5382-4566-B795-85104C2F5BF1@livecode.com>
 <390f0894-2a70-47e6-94c7-82fa361b0059@pair.com>
 <CAFmQfHLQff0M01tkjZg6L47TgVi1s_0+Z1+GxNS4GCXZjJQ9AA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <18760B0E-DDC2-44A4-91A7-F77D0851F67B@livecode.com>

Folks, it did take us all day owing to the number of questions but we now have a page up, with the recording and (I hope!) all your questions answered in text as well.

https://future.livecode.com/live-demo-your-questions-answered/

Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 13 Aug 2024, at 18:11, Stephen Barncard via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi gang,
> I missed the webinar. I have been working on the other side of the clock.
> Is it possible to see a recording?
> 
> sqb
> --
> Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA -
> mixstream.org
> 
> 
> On Tue, Aug 13, 2024 at 4:21 AM Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> I also cannot attend a Zoom meeting now -
>> 
>> My watch-later absentee request:
>> 
>> Please demo the Application Payments portal interface/process to:
>> 
>> - 'upload your monthly sales figures' including
>> - 'the monthly reports from the app store/s you are shipping through.'
>> 
>> Best wishes,
>> 
>> Curry Kenworthy
>> 
>> Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
>> "PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
>> https://livecodeconsulting.com/
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Wed Aug 14 17:46:38 2024
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2024 22:46:38 +0100
Subject: Live LiveCode Create demo - Application Payments portal
In-Reply-To: <18760B0E-DDC2-44A4-91A7-F77D0851F67B@livecode.com>
References: <20DE6D0B-5382-4566-B795-85104C2F5BF1@livecode.com>
 <390f0894-2a70-47e6-94c7-82fa361b0059@pair.com>
 <CAFmQfHLQff0M01tkjZg6L47TgVi1s_0+Z1+GxNS4GCXZjJQ9AA@mail.gmail.com>
 <18760B0E-DDC2-44A4-91A7-F77D0851F67B@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <BB2C620F-12B9-42D4-84B8-E1C7F6BED51A@gmail.com>

Brilliant, thanks Heather. 

> On 14 Aug 2024, at 6:12 PM, Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Folks, it did take us all day owing to the number of questions but we now have a page up, with the recording and (I hope!) all your questions answered in text as well.
> 
> https://future.livecode.com/live-demo-your-questions-answered/
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On 13 Aug 2024, at 18:11, Stephen Barncard via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi gang,
>> I missed the webinar. I have been working on the other side of the clock.
>> Is it possible to see a recording?
>> 
>> sqb
>> --
>> Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA -
>> mixstream.org
>> 
>> 
>> On Tue, Aug 13, 2024 at 4:21 AM Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> I also cannot attend a Zoom meeting now -
>>> 
>>> My watch-later absentee request:
>>> 
>>> Please demo the Application Payments portal interface/process to:
>>> 
>>> - 'upload your monthly sales figures' including
>>> - 'the monthly reports from the app store/s you are shipping through.'
>>> 
>>> Best wishes,
>>> 
>>> Curry Kenworthy
>>> 
>>> Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
>>> "PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
>>> https://livecodeconsulting.com/
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Wed Aug 14 17:50:57 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2024 21:50:57 +0000
Subject: Live LiveCode Create demo - Application Payments portal
In-Reply-To: <18760B0E-DDC2-44A4-91A7-F77D0851F67B@livecode.com>
References: <20DE6D0B-5382-4566-B795-85104C2F5BF1@livecode.com>
 <390f0894-2a70-47e6-94c7-82fa361b0059@pair.com>
 <CAFmQfHLQff0M01tkjZg6L47TgVi1s_0+Z1+GxNS4GCXZjJQ9AA@mail.gmail.com>
 <18760B0E-DDC2-44A4-91A7-F77D0851F67B@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <DDCB42E8-53C3-4458-9997-87C0BC560840@iotecdigital.com>

From what I was able to watch live, it looks amazing. I especially like how much coding the widgets can alleviate (bug free BTW) and I can always go back and look at and modify the code if need be. 

When the time comes to migrate I will definitely take a look at this. 

Bob S


> On Aug 14, 2024, at 10:12 AM, Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Folks, it did take us all day owing to the number of questions but we now have a page up, with the recording and (I hope!) all your questions answered in text as well.
> 
> https://future.livecode.com/live-demo-your-questions-answered/
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On 13 Aug 2024, at 18:11, Stephen Barncard via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi gang,
>> I missed the webinar. I have been working on the other side of the clock.
>> Is it possible to see a recording?
>> 
>> sqb
>> --
>> Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA -
>> mixstream.org
>> 
>> 
>> On Tue, Aug 13, 2024 at 4:21 AM Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> I also cannot attend a Zoom meeting now -
>>> 
>>> My watch-later absentee request:
>>> 
>>> Please demo the Application Payments portal interface/process to:
>>> 
>>> - 'upload your monthly sales figures' including
>>> - 'the monthly reports from the app store/s you are shipping through.'
>>> 
>>> Best wishes,
>>> 
>>> Curry Kenworthy
>>> 
>>> Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
>>> "PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
>>> https://livecodeconsulting.com/
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From dvglasgow at gmail.com  Thu Aug 15 07:09:14 2024
From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David V Glasgow)
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2024 12:09:14 +0100
Subject: Live LiveCode Create demo 
In-Reply-To: <DDCB42E8-53C3-4458-9997-87C0BC560840@iotecdigital.com>
References: <20DE6D0B-5382-4566-B795-85104C2F5BF1@livecode.com>
 <390f0894-2a70-47e6-94c7-82fa361b0059@pair.com>
 <CAFmQfHLQff0M01tkjZg6L47TgVi1s_0+Z1+GxNS4GCXZjJQ9AA@mail.gmail.com>
 <18760B0E-DDC2-44A4-91A7-F77D0851F67B@livecode.com>
 <DDCB42E8-53C3-4458-9997-87C0BC560840@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <F498B987-BD3E-4E4D-B728-C4FB0583B30B@gmail.com>

Just caught up on this and really enjoyed it.  Obviously the team has been working hard, and created something really special.  

My question is conceptual, not a technical/features based one, so I am raising it here because I would be really interested in folks views.

Kevin states towards the end of the video that substacks are still there and still work, but LC folks are moving away from that metaphor in favour of ‘layouts’.  Now I had watched the whole video with my mental model being ‘layouts’ correspond to a (very smart)  group on a card.   In light of what Kevin said that must be wrong, but I can’t quite see how the Create metaphor maps onto  the ol’ Xtalk hierarchy of things.

Cheers

David G




From paul at researchware.com  Thu Aug 15 08:03:27 2024
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2024 08:03:27 -0400
Subject: Live LiveCode Create demo
In-Reply-To: <F498B987-BD3E-4E4D-B728-C4FB0583B30B@gmail.com>
References: <20DE6D0B-5382-4566-B795-85104C2F5BF1@livecode.com>
 <390f0894-2a70-47e6-94c7-82fa361b0059@pair.com>
 <CAFmQfHLQff0M01tkjZg6L47TgVi1s_0+Z1+GxNS4GCXZjJQ9AA@mail.gmail.com>
 <18760B0E-DDC2-44A4-91A7-F77D0851F67B@livecode.com>
 <DDCB42E8-53C3-4458-9997-87C0BC560840@iotecdigital.com>
 <F498B987-BD3E-4E4D-B728-C4FB0583B30B@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fe699668-4382-4bfb-8496-8a094a6b93ed@researchware.com>

Just speaking for myself.

I use substacks for different windows (modal or nonmodal) in my 
application. A substack rarely has more than one card, which has the 
controls for that window laid out the way I want them. Also, substacks 
can just be script libraries or other sorts of libraries (icons, images, 
etc.)

So I already use substack as different layouts in native apps. If moving 
to the web, they effectively become different "pages" (or screens or 
layouts of controls)

I think I have 1 app where I still use multiple cards to store data, one 
record per card. If I have a chance to redo this, the data will be 
stored in a property or variable and the stack will have a single "card" 
or layout where the current record of data is displayed as the user 
navigates through it.

For the most part, I already think of a substack as synonymous with a 
window/screen/page layout of controls for an app.


On 8/15/2024 7:09 AM, David V Glasgow via use-livecode wrote:
> Just caught up on this and really enjoyed it.  Obviously the team has been working hard, and created something really special.
>
> My question is conceptual, not a technical/features based one, so I am raising it here because I would be really interested in folks views.
>
> Kevin states towards the end of the video that substacks are still there and still work, but LC folks are moving away from that metaphor in favour of layouts.  Now I had watched the whole video with my mental model being layouts correspond to a (very smart)  group on a card.   In light of what Kevin said that must be wrong, but I cant quite see how the Create metaphor maps onto  the ol Xtalk hierarchy of things.
>
> Cheers
>
> David G
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From kevin at livecode.com  Thu Aug 15 08:57:05 2024
From: kevin at livecode.com (Kevin Miller)
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2024 13:57:05 +0100
Subject: Live LiveCode Create demo
In-Reply-To: <fe699668-4382-4bfb-8496-8a094a6b93ed@researchware.com>
References: <20DE6D0B-5382-4566-B795-85104C2F5BF1@livecode.com>
 <390f0894-2a70-47e6-94c7-82fa361b0059@pair.com>
 <CAFmQfHLQff0M01tkjZg6L47TgVi1s_0+Z1+GxNS4GCXZjJQ9AA@mail.gmail.com>
 <18760B0E-DDC2-44A4-91A7-F77D0851F67B@livecode.com>
 <DDCB42E8-53C3-4458-9997-87C0BC560840@iotecdigital.com>
 <F498B987-BD3E-4E4D-B728-C4FB0583B30B@gmail.com>
 <fe699668-4382-4bfb-8496-8a094a6b93ed@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <2EB1CDE8-0302-482C-9264-1317676EA54F@livecode.com>

Yes this is a great question, thanks for posting it.

We're looking to simplify the metaphors we use a little. The card/stack thing just doesn't seem to make as much sense as it did.

One of the main uses was to create a background group to have different records on each screen. That’s not really relevant in the new model where data is stored in the cloud data store and bound to objects.

Another major use was to place navigation controls on a screen and use a background group to do that. While in the current DP you do place those controls, we are working to create global navigation feature at project level which simply applies such a navigation bar without the need to drag them out onto each layout.

You then have "cards" as a concept meaning something entirely different in Material design, which is the design framework we've applied to Create.

All in all it just seems simpler to talk about a screen as a layout. Create multiple layouts and navigate between them. New users do appear to universally understand what a layout is (without the explanation that card/stack required).

All of that said, the underlying card/stack system is still there and a layout is really just a stack under the hood. So you can go on doing things the old way if you want to it will all work.

Kind regards, 

Kevin 

Kevin Miller ~ kevin at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ 
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things 




On 15/08/2024, 13:03, "use-livecode on behalf of Paul Dupuis via use-livecode" <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> on behalf of use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:



Just speaking for myself.


I use substacks for different windows (modal or nonmodal) in my 
application. A substack rarely has more than one card, which has the 
controls for that window laid out the way I want them. Also, substacks 
can just be script libraries or other sorts of libraries (icons, images, 
etc.)


So I already use substack as different layouts in native apps. If moving 
to the web, they effectively become different "pages" (or screens or 
layouts of controls)


I think I have 1 app where I still use multiple cards to store data, one 
record per card. If I have a chance to redo this, the data will be 
stored in a property or variable and the stack will have a single "card" 
or layout where the current record of data is displayed as the user 
navigates through it.


For the most part, I already think of a substack as synonymous with a 
window/screen/page layout of controls for an app.




On 8/15/2024 7:09 AM, David V Glasgow via use-livecode wrote:
> Just caught up on this and really enjoyed it. Obviously the team has been working hard, and created something really special.
>
> My question is conceptual, not a technical/features based one, so I am raising it here because I would be really interested in folks views.
>
> Kevin states towards the end of the video that substacks are still there and still work, but LC folks are moving away from that metaphor in favour of ‘layouts’. Now I had watched the whole video with my mental model being ‘layouts’ correspond to a (very smart) group on a card. In light of what Kevin said that must be wrong, but I can’t quite see how the Create metaphor maps onto the ol’ Xtalk hierarchy of things.
>
> Cheers
>
> David G
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode <http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode>




_______________________________________________
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From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Aug 15 09:36:30 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2024 15:36:30 +0200
Subject: Problems with revSetSpeechVoice
Message-ID: <0E404CCA-84B4-436D-BCC3-21C9293DD111@major-k.de>

Hi all,

I am currently working with the revSpeak library (needs to be 
crossplatform Mac and Win) and facing serious problems.

I have a field with all available voices, that I fill with:
-------------------------------------------
on mouseUp 
   put revSpeechVoices() into tVoices
   sort tVoices
   put textdecode(tVoices,"utf8") into fld "fi_voices"
end mouseUp
-------------------------------------------
textdecode is neccessary to preserve UMLAUTS like in:
Sandy (Französisch (Kanada))
## Sandy (French, Canada))

Now all the french voices do NOT work!
I tried:
----------------------
revSetSpeechVoice tVoice
## Where tVoice of course contains the above mentioned voice
----------------------

I even tried:
----------------------
put textencode(tVoice,"native") into tVoice2
revSetSpeechVoice tVoice2
----------------------
No dice, always reverts back to the "default" voice on my Mac.

Anything I am overlooking or is this a bug?
Did not find anthing in the "Quality center".

Any hint very welcome, thanks!


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From mark at livecode.com  Thu Aug 15 09:53:47 2024
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2024 14:53:47 +0100
Subject: Problems with revSetSpeechVoice
In-Reply-To: <0E404CCA-84B4-436D-BCC3-21C9293DD111@major-k.de>
References: <0E404CCA-84B4-436D-BCC3-21C9293DD111@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <f16bc770915f9f4c307a2208cbe893bb@livecode.com>

On 2024-08-15 14:36, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I am currently working with the revSpeak library (needs to be
> crossplatform Mac and Win) and facing serious problems.
> 
> I have a field with all available voices, that I fill with:
> -------------------------------------------
> on mouseUp
>    put revSpeechVoices() into tVoices
>    sort tVoices
>    put textdecode(tVoices,"utf8") into fld "fi_voices"
> end mouseUp
> -------------------------------------------
> textdecode is neccessary to preserve UMLAUTS like in:
> Sandy (Franzsisch (Kanada))
> ## Sandy (French, Canada))
> 
> Now all the french voices do NOT work!
> I tried:
> ----------------------
> revSetSpeechVoice tVoice
> ## Where tVoice of course contains the above mentioned voice
> ----------------------
> 
> I even tried:
> ----------------------
> put textencode(tVoice,"native") into tVoice2
> revSetSpeechVoice tVoice2
> ----------------------
> No dice, always reverts back to the "default" voice on my Mac.

Did you try:

----------------------
put textencode(tVoice,"utf8") into tVoice2
revSetSpeechVoice tVoice2
----------------------

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things


From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Aug 15 10:00:04 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2024 16:00:04 +0200
Subject: Problems with revSetSpeechVoice
In-Reply-To: <f16bc770915f9f4c307a2208cbe893bb@livecode.com>
References: <0E404CCA-84B4-436D-BCC3-21C9293DD111@major-k.de>
 <f16bc770915f9f4c307a2208cbe893bb@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <9E7C2174-0D19-4D2C-8BF5-5B335A91E639@major-k.de>

Hi Mark,

> Am 15.08.2024 um 15:53 schrieb Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> On 2024-08-15 14:36, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> I am currently working with the revSpeak library (needs to be
>> crossplatform Mac and Win) and facing serious problems.
>> I have a field with all available voices, that I fill with:
>> -------------------------------------------
>> on mouseUp
>>   put revSpeechVoices() into tVoices
>>   sort tVoices
>>   put textdecode(tVoices,"utf8") into fld "fi_voices"
>> end mouseUp
>> -------------------------------------------
>> textdecode is neccessary to preserve UMLAUTS like in:
>> Sandy (Französisch (Kanada))
>> ## Sandy (French, Canada))
>> Now all the french voices do NOT work!
>> I tried:
>> ----------------------
>> revSetSpeechVoice tVoice
>> ## Where tVoice of course contains the above mentioned voice
>> ----------------------
>> I even tried:
>> ----------------------
>> put textencode(tVoice,"native") into tVoice2
>> revSetSpeechVoice tVoice2
>> ----------------------
>> No dice, always reverts back to the "default" voice on my Mac.
> 
> Did you try:
> ----------------------
> put textencode(tVoice,"utf8") into tVoice2
> revSetSpeechVoice tVoice2
> ----------------------

obviously not, but that was the missing piece, works now!
Thanks a bunch! :-)

> Warmest Regards,
> 
> Mark.

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From georges at caen.one  Thu Aug 15 10:04:28 2024
From: georges at caen.one (Georges Malamoud)
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2024 16:04:28 +0200
Subject: Live LiveCode Create demo
In-Reply-To: <C42EF103-4DDF-4479-B4A4-C78EBA3D6C13@caen.one>
References: <46af36ff0f63bf8de9e97383565f6728@caen.one>
 <ACA21DED-7A02-4351-98B6-C24ED7886ECC@caen.one>
 <EBED4F6F-6F98-4D46-B665-560B117F6965@caen.one>
 <C42EF103-4DDF-4479-B4A4-C78EBA3D6C13@caen.one>
Message-ID: <E9FF0A53-CC3F-4603-B2FC-F6B726E03966@caen.one>

Layouts, a little bit like this, then ? (Swift for Apple) ?
https://developer.apple.com/documentation/uikit/views_and_controls/collection_views/layouts


From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Aug 15 11:40:39 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2024 17:40:39 +0200
Subject: Android API 34 and Android keystore
In-Reply-To: <002b01daecbc$883c9750$98b5c5f0$@net>
References: <218F032A-9FE0-4381-AFD0-11629A3EEAC8@major-k.de>
 <6BC1D23E-E1A9-466B-9347-ED6B8AEF14EC@elementarysoftware.com>
 <004301daeaa3$25a96c00$70fc4400$@net>
 <1913967be90.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <F933518B-5DC7-4248-8A87-A21E38F653D0@major-k.de>
 <002b01daecbc$883c9750$98b5c5f0$@net>
Message-ID: <751A7CE6-7021-499E-B740-7E6C6D82600B@major-k.de>

Hi all,

> Am 12.08.2024 um 15:35 schrieb Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Klaus,
> 
> GREAT NEWS! I stand corrected also. Please post the contact and procedure.
> This will help all on the list. Thanks for doing the foot work to figure
> this out.
> 
> Ralph DiMola

sorry for the late response...

Contact:
On the Google Play Store HELP pages you will find a button "Contact" at the 
bottom of the page. I just clicked that and asked my question.

Procedere, I don't think I am revelaing a secret when I quote the answer mail here:
--------------------------------------------------------------------
>     • Follow the instructions in the Android Studio Help Center to generate a new key. It must be different from any previous keys, be a 2048-bit RSA key, and have 25-year validity. Alternatively, you can use the following command line to generate a new key:
>         • keytool -genkeypair -alias upload -keyalg RSA -keysize 2048 -validity 9125 -keystore keystore.jks

>     • Export the certificate for that key to PEM format:
>         • keytool -export -rfc -alias upload -file upload_certificate.pem -keystore keystore.jks 

>     • Once you have generated a PEM file please follow the steps below:
>         • Go to Setup > App integrity > App Signing.
>         • Request Upload key reset.
>         • Give a reason why you’re requesting a key reset.
>         • Enter PEM file.
>         • Click Request.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Hope that helps.
Will do this over the weekend...


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Aug 15 13:51:36 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2024 19:51:36 +0200
Subject: Android API 34 and Android keystore
In-Reply-To: <751A7CE6-7021-499E-B740-7E6C6D82600B@major-k.de>
References: <218F032A-9FE0-4381-AFD0-11629A3EEAC8@major-k.de>
 <6BC1D23E-E1A9-466B-9347-ED6B8AEF14EC@elementarysoftware.com>
 <004301daeaa3$25a96c00$70fc4400$@net>
 <1913967be90.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <F933518B-5DC7-4248-8A87-A21E38F653D0@major-k.de>
 <002b01daecbc$883c9750$98b5c5f0$@net>
 <751A7CE6-7021-499E-B740-7E6C6D82600B@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <0EDE5423-38FB-4995-A59F-1E2A7230C42D@major-k.de>

Forgot to mention that one should wait 48 hours after uploading the PEM file,
so the system has time to "get" fully. :-D

> Am 15.08.2024 um 17:40 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
>> Am 12.08.2024 um 15:35 schrieb Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Klaus,
>> 
>> GREAT NEWS! I stand corrected also. Please post the contact and procedure.
>> This will help all on the list. Thanks for doing the foot work to figure
>> this out.
>> 
>> Ralph DiMola
> 
> sorry for the late response...
> 
> Contact:
> On the Google Play Store HELP pages you will find a button "Contact" at the 
> bottom of the page. I just clicked that and asked my question.
> 
> Procedere, I don't think I am revelaing a secret when I quote the answer mail here:
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>    • Follow the instructions in the Android Studio Help Center to generate a new key. It must be different from any previous keys, be a 2048-bit RSA key, and have 25-year validity. Alternatively, you can use the following command line to generate a new key:
>>        • keytool -genkeypair -alias upload -keyalg RSA -keysize 2048 -validity 9125 -keystore keystore.jks
> 
>>    • Export the certificate for that key to PEM format:
>>        • keytool -export -rfc -alias upload -file upload_certificate.pem -keystore keystore.jks
> 
>>    • Once you have generated a PEM file please follow the steps below:
>>        • Go to Setup > App integrity > App Signing.
>>        • Request Upload key reset.
>>        • Give a reason why you’re requesting a key reset.
>>        • Enter PEM file.
>>        • Click Request.
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au  Fri Aug 16 02:34:33 2024
From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2024 06:34:33 +0000
Subject: Polygrid or polylist as datagrid form replacement?
Message-ID: <ME3PR01MB80823F09254D42CDF5123A7FB7812@ME3PR01MB8082.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>

I’ve been using datagrid form objects for a number of years and am investigating the viability of replacing them with polygrids or polylist widgets but on first look it seems that both have fixed/uniform row heights, whereas datagrid form rows can dynamically resize their height according to their content - ie individual rows can have different heights.

Is that right, or am I missing something?

Terry

From benr_mc at cogapp.com  Fri Aug 16 03:32:10 2024
From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2024 08:32:10 +0100
Subject: Issues with (64bit?) Windows MySQL driver
Message-ID: <13f72f4a-7dcc-4dc3-8bb5-e1e1c931ec96@cogapp.com>

I have a tool (a LiveCode standalone) running on Windows, which every night 
drops and recreates a database on a remote MySQL server, (about 350MB, 50 
tables). Running for many years.

About a year ago, we started to see a problem where sometimes the nightly 
build would fail, part-way through the process. The routine involves creating 
and populating tables, then creating indexes. Depending when the problem hits, 
the initial error is either

	Connection was killed
or
	Lost connection to MySQL server during query

All subsequent calls to revdb_execute get the error

	MySQL server has gone away

I tried splitting the build into sections, so that the code opens the 
connection to a database builds some of the tables, then closes the 
connection, and opens a new connection to add more tables. There was no 
evidence that this made the issue occur less frequently; and once it hit, 
subsequent attempts to open a connection would get the error

	Can't connect to MySQL server on '<address>' (0)


When this was happening maybe a couple of times per month (on average) it 
didn't matter too much (the system is designed to be resilient, if the data 
wasn't refreshed one day, it would be the next). I thought it might be network 
glitches.

Recently IT tightened security on the machine where the tool runs; and since 
then we get this problem nine times of out ten. They say the only change made 
was to remove the admin privileges of the user account, and have now reversed 
that change; however, this problem has remained since. Another problem that 
arrived at the same time, reported here as "a windows weirdness", seems (per 
Paul Dupuis and Mark Waddingham) to be related to UNC paths, and possibly to 
security policies.

Does anyone have a suggestion for how conditions could affect this? Is there 
any way to get more detailed information out of the rev database driver about 
what's happening?

TIA,

Ben


From mark at livecode.com  Fri Aug 16 04:14:53 2024
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2024 09:14:53 +0100
Subject: Issues with (64bit?) Windows MySQL driver
In-Reply-To: <13f72f4a-7dcc-4dc3-8bb5-e1e1c931ec96@cogapp.com>
References: <13f72f4a-7dcc-4dc3-8bb5-e1e1c931ec96@cogapp.com>
Message-ID: <9cdd28a034b7a7daff5db4e306abdc97@livecode.com>

On 2024-08-16 08:32, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode wrote:
> I have a tool (a LiveCode standalone) running on Windows, which every 
> night drops and recreates a database on a remote MySQL server, (about 
> 350MB, 50 tables). Running for many years.
> 
> About a year ago, we started to see a problem where sometimes the 
> nightly build would fail, part-way through the process. The routine 
> involves creating and populating tables, then creating indexes. 
> Depending when the problem hits, the initial error is either
> 
> 	Connection was killed
> or
> 	Lost connection to MySQL server during query
> 
> All subsequent calls to revdb_execute get the error
> 
> 	MySQL server has gone away
> 
> I tried splitting the build into sections, so that the code opens the 
> connection to a database builds some of the tables, then closes the 
> connection, and opens a new connection to add more tables. There was no 
> evidence that this made the issue occur less frequently; and once it 
> hit, subsequent attempts to open a connection would get the error
> 
> 	Can't connect to MySQL server on '<address>' (0)
> 
> 
> When this was happening maybe a couple of times per month (on average) 
> it didn't matter too much (the system is designed to be resilient, if 
> the data wasn't refreshed one day, it would be the next). I thought it 
> might be network glitches.
> 
> Recently IT tightened security on the machine where the tool runs; and 
> since then we get this problem nine times of out ten. They say the only 
> change made was to remove the admin privileges of the user account, and 
> have now reversed that change; however, this problem has remained 
> since. Another problem that arrived at the same time, reported here as 
> "a windows weirdness", seems (per Paul Dupuis and Mark Waddingham) to 
> be related to UNC paths, and possibly to security policies.
> 
> Does anyone have a suggestion for how conditions could affect this? Is 
> there any way to get more detailed information out of the rev database 
> driver about what's happening?

The dbmysql is just a thin wrapper around the mysqlclient library which 
is basically just implementing a protocol over a socket.

The fact that you get 'Can't connect to MySQL on '<address>'' after it 
happens sounds very much like there's some sort of blocking going on at 
the system level. (A bit like most servers have 'portsentry' or similar 
on it which blocks requests which look dodgy) - given the 'tigtening of 
security' this is quite possible...

I think there are some low-level network tools on windows you could use 
to look at what's happening with sockets/ports (e.g. 
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/downloads/tcpview).

I was going to suggest tweaking the timeouts/auto-reconnect parameters 
on your revOpenDatabase call - but I'm not sure its a timeout due to the 
'Can't connect' error happening subsequently.

Warmest Regards

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things


From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com  Fri Aug 16 05:19:42 2024
From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2024 11:19:42 +0200
Subject: LC Create Cloud advanced developer questions
Message-ID: <931E4E58-4809-4FA2-BD08-D42006732638@gmail.com>

I have some questions to LC HQ on aspects of LC Create Cloud that I believe have not yet been discussed at all (unless I’ve missed something).

1) If several developers want to cooperate, is it then possible for multiple users to log in to the same project in LC Create Cloud? And if not possible now from the start, is it something that’s on the road map? 

2) Even if I’m a lone developer, I may want to make use of the work of others, like we've done so extensively in LC Classic. How can plugin stacks and helper tools made by others be implemented or accessed in my LC Create Cloud project? If I can’t have more than one stack open at the same time, it seems difficult to use such things.

Related to that, can I have my own "script repository” where I store script-only stacks or something, which all my projects can make calls to? Could I even share that repository so other developers can make calls to it? 

Wouldn’t it be very interesting if many general utility scripts could be made available in a similar way to how e.g. Python works, where you put ”import [library]” at the top of a script, and all the modules/handlers can then be accessed by the script?

All this can of course be done already in the sense that you can fetch any LC stack that’s been made available on a server and ”start using” it. But I think LC Create Cloud has the potential to offer such a feature in a more secure an accessible way - to everyone! Is this something you have considered?

3) Regardless of whether "multiple users per account" functionality will be there or not - will LC support staff be able to more easily provide support in LC Create Cloud by accessing projects (at the user’s request) and trouble-shoot or obtain bug documentation? I imagine it should facilitate things in that respect.

/Andreas

From heather at livecode.com  Fri Aug 16 05:56:54 2024
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2024 10:56:54 +0100
Subject: LC Create Cloud advanced developer questions
In-Reply-To: <931E4E58-4809-4FA2-BD08-D42006732638@gmail.com>
References: <931E4E58-4809-4FA2-BD08-D42006732638@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <06B76FCE-C77D-4412-85EF-7F324CCD5C1B@livecode.com>

Andreas,

These are great questions. I think really the best place to get answers is going to be the new LiveCode Create forum, here: 

https://discourse.livecode.com

Please do go here and ask them, and hopefully we can get a good discussion going!

Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 16 Aug 2024, at 10:19, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I have some questions to LC HQ on aspects of LC Create Cloud that I believe have not yet been discussed at all (unless I’ve missed something).
> 
> 1) If several developers want to cooperate, is it then possible for multiple users to log in to the same project in LC Create Cloud? And if not possible now from the start, is it something that’s on the road map? 
> 
> 2) Even if I’m a lone developer, I may want to make use of the work of others, like we've done so extensively in LC Classic. How can plugin stacks and helper tools made by others be implemented or accessed in my LC Create Cloud project? If I can’t have more than one stack open at the same time, it seems difficult to use such things.
> 
> Related to that, can I have my own "script repository” where I store script-only stacks or something, which all my projects can make calls to? Could I even share that repository so other developers can make calls to it? 
> 
> Wouldn’t it be very interesting if many general utility scripts could be made available in a similar way to how e.g. Python works, where you put ”import [library]” at the top of a script, and all the modules/handlers can then be accessed by the script?
> 
> All this can of course be done already in the sense that you can fetch any LC stack that’s been made available on a server and ”start using” it. But I think LC Create Cloud has the potential to offer such a feature in a more secure an accessible way - to everyone! Is this something you have considered?
> 
> 3) Regardless of whether "multiple users per account" functionality will be there or not - will LC support staff be able to more easily provide support in LC Create Cloud by accessing projects (at the user’s request) and trouble-shoot or obtain bug documentation? I imagine it should facilitate things in that respect.
> 
> /Andreas
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Fri Aug 16 06:02:57 2024
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2024 11:02:57 +0100
Subject: Polygrid or polylist as datagrid form replacement?
In-Reply-To: <ME3PR01MB80823F09254D42CDF5123A7FB7812@ME3PR01MB8082.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
References: <ME3PR01MB80823F09254D42CDF5123A7FB7812@ME3PR01MB8082.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <D76E1FF9-49ED-4FFF-9C55-C00A52B941C0@gmail.com>

Hi Terry, I can’t answer your question but I am curious if you have any code you use to dynamically resize the row height in a datagrid. I am very interested in doing this.

Thanks
Mark

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 16, 2024, at 7:35 AM, Terry Judd via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I’ve been using datagrid form objects for a number of years and am investigating the viability of replacing them with polygrids or polylist widgets but on first look it seems that both have fixed/uniform row heights, whereas datagrid form rows can dynamically resize their height according to their content - ie individual rows can have different heights.
> 
> Is that right, or am I missing something?
> 
> Terry
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
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From kevin at livecode.com  Fri Aug 16 07:23:13 2024
From: kevin at livecode.com (Kevin Miller)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2024 12:23:13 +0100
Subject: LC Create Cloud advanced developer questions
In-Reply-To: <931E4E58-4809-4FA2-BD08-D42006732638@gmail.com>
References: <931E4E58-4809-4FA2-BD08-D42006732638@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5746ED6C-3959-4161-8DFE-11D602A9493A@livecode.com>

Thanks for this. We had a quick chat internally and actually we're happy for Create questions to be posted either here or on the forum. However please post bug reports only on the forums as that is where the developers hang out.

1. At present you can "almost" do this by sharing log in details. Doing this better with multiple log-ins per account has been very much part of the road map from the start. We're really excited about this aspect of things actually, we can see a whole class of apps where people choose to distribute them inside the IDE instead of deploying. As we start to implement this properly we may begin by just being as granular as locking one layout at a time. As things evolve we're looking at developing this to the point where you can do better real time sharing, versioning, code reviews etc.

2. We don't yet have a plugins system in Cloud, however it will be coming soon. There is a real opportunity to make it super easy to share and import components. A marketplace is one way to do this. Allowing a searchable repository of shared script steps and templates (within those IDE features) is another. We're also considering things like whether or not we want to allow attribution (small company logo and a link) if you share a script step. So if you're a consulting service you would get your website in front of people while simultaneously looking useful & knowledgeable to prospects, right from within the IDE.

3. This is essentially similar to the multi-user question. If you grant access to a support account to come in we would be able to do that, obviously if you don't do so then we couldn't.

Kind regards, 

Kevin 

Kevin Miller ~ kevin at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ 
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things 




On 16/08/2024, 10:19, "use-livecode on behalf of Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode" <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> on behalf of use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:


I have some questions to LC HQ on aspects of LC Create Cloud that I believe have not yet been discussed at all (unless I’ve missed something).


1) If several developers want to cooperate, is it then possible for multiple users to log in to the same project in LC Create Cloud? And if not possible now from the start, is it something that’s on the road map? 


2) Even if I’m a lone developer, I may want to make use of the work of others, like we've done so extensively in LC Classic. How can plugin stacks and helper tools made by others be implemented or accessed in my LC Create Cloud project? If I can’t have more than one stack open at the same time, it seems difficult to use such things.


Related to that, can I have my own "script repository” where I store script-only stacks or something, which all my projects can make calls to? Could I even share that repository so other developers can make calls to it? 


Wouldn’t it be very interesting if many general utility scripts could be made available in a similar way to how e.g. Python works, where you put ”import [library]” at the top of a script, and all the modules/handlers can then be accessed by the script?


All this can of course be done already in the sense that you can fetch any LC stack that’s been made available on a server and ”start using” it. But I think LC Create Cloud has the potential to offer such a feature in a more secure an accessible way - to everyone! Is this something you have considered?


3) Regardless of whether "multiple users per account" functionality will be there or not - will LC support staff be able to more easily provide support in LC Create Cloud by accessing projects (at the user’s request) and trouble-shoot or obtain bug documentation? I imagine it should facilitate things in that respect.


/Andreas
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From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Aug 16 11:17:06 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2024 15:17:06 +0000
Subject: Issues with (64bit?) Windows MySQL driver
In-Reply-To: <9cdd28a034b7a7daff5db4e306abdc97@livecode.com>
References: <13f72f4a-7dcc-4dc3-8bb5-e1e1c931ec96@cogapp.com>
 <9cdd28a034b7a7daff5db4e306abdc97@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <12E3765E-7AF3-4415-ACFD-5AE8E253CDF9@iotecdigital.com>

I had an issue with my mySQL server some time ago that revolved around making multiple connections in a short period of time. I would hit the connection limit of the SQL server and it would stop accepting connections. My issue was that I didn’t realize at the time that I needed to disconnect after every session, because the SQL server will keep a connection alive for a period of time specified in the server settings. If you are already connected and you create a new connection it will create a new thread.

If you have MySQLWorkbench (or some other server manager) you should be able to see the current connections. The MySQLWorkbench will have it’s own connections but if you see a lot of other connections that you can’t account for, then you need to ensure that you are disconnecting after every session.

Bob S


On Aug 16, 2024, at 1:14 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

On 2024-08-16 08:32, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode wrote:
I have a tool (a LiveCode standalone) running on Windows, which every night drops and recreates a database on a remote MySQL server, (about 350MB, 50 tables). Running for many years.
About a year ago, we started to see a problem where sometimes the nightly build would fail, part-way through the process. The routine involves creating and populating tables, then creating indexes. Depending when the problem hits, the initial error is either
Connection was killed
or
Lost connection to MySQL server during query
All subsequent calls to revdb_execute get the error
MySQL server has gone away
I tried splitting the build into sections, so that the code opens the connection to a database builds some of the tables, then closes the connection, and opens a new connection to add more tables. There was no evidence that this made the issue occur less frequently; and once it hit, subsequent attempts to open a connection would get the error
Can't connect to MySQL server on '<address>' (0)
When this was happening maybe a couple of times per month (on average) it didn't matter too much (the system is designed to be resilient, if the data wasn't refreshed one day, it would be the next). I thought it might be network glitches.
Recently IT tightened security on the machine where the tool runs; and since then we get this problem nine times of out ten. They say the only change made was to remove the admin privileges of the user account, and have now reversed that change; however, this problem has remained since. Another problem that arrived at the same time, reported here as "a windows weirdness", seems (per Paul Dupuis and Mark Waddingham) to be related to UNC paths, and possibly to security policies.
Does anyone have a suggestion for how conditions could affect this? Is there any way to get more detailed information out of the rev database driver about what's happening?

The dbmysql is just a thin wrapper around the mysqlclient library which is basically just implementing a protocol over a socket.

The fact that you get 'Can't connect to MySQL on '<address>'' after it happens sounds very much like there's some sort of blocking going on at the system level. (A bit like most servers have 'portsentry' or similar on it which blocks requests which look dodgy) - given the 'tigtening of security' this is quite possible...

I think there are some low-level network tools on windows you could use to look at what's happening with sockets/ports (e.g. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/downloads/tcpview).

I was going to suggest tweaking the timeouts/auto-reconnect parameters on your revOpenDatabase call - but I'm not sure its a timeout due to the 'Can't connect' error happening subsequently.

Warmest Regards

Mark.

--
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com<mailto:mark at livecode.com> ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things

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From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Aug 16 11:20:12 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2024 15:20:12 +0000
Subject: Polygrid or polylist as datagrid form replacement?
In-Reply-To: <ME3PR01MB80823F09254D42CDF5123A7FB7812@ME3PR01MB8082.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
References: <ME3PR01MB80823F09254D42CDF5123A7FB7812@ME3PR01MB8082.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <E4BB477D-276D-4276-8ED9-83C5AA21CF16@iotecdigital.com>

There are a great many things you can do with a datagrid that you cannot do with a polygrid. From what I have been able to gather, the main advantage to using a polygrid is that they perform better than a datagrid. But their list of properties that you can get and set are what I would call minimal compared to a datagrid. Also, I do not think that polygrids can be used like a form style datagrid. 

Bob S


> On Aug 15, 2024, at 11:34 PM, Terry Judd via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I’ve been using datagrid form objects for a number of years and am investigating the viability of replacing them with polygrids or polylist widgets but on first look it seems that both have fixed/uniform row heights, whereas datagrid form rows can dynamically resize their height according to their content - ie individual rows can have different heights.
> 
> Is that right, or am I missing something?
> 
> Terry
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
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From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Aug 16 11:21:42 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2024 15:21:42 +0000
Subject: Polygrid or polylist as datagrid form replacement?
In-Reply-To: <D76E1FF9-49ED-4FFF-9C55-C00A52B941C0@gmail.com>
References: <ME3PR01MB80823F09254D42CDF5123A7FB7812@ME3PR01MB8082.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
 <D76E1FF9-49ED-4FFF-9C55-C00A52B941C0@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A3CF9CD6-817E-440E-BBA2-636AD3791E9A@iotecdigital.com>

I believe he is talking about form style datagrids. Form style has row templates that can be coded dynamically. To my knowledge, table style only have column templates. 

Bob S


> On Aug 16, 2024, at 3:02 AM, Mark Smith via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Terry, I can’t answer your question but I am curious if you have any code you use to dynamically resize the row height in a datagrid. I am very interested in doing this.
> 
> Thanks
> Mark
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Aug 16, 2024, at 7:35 AM, Terry Judd via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I’ve been using datagrid form objects for a number of years and am investigating the viability of replacing them with polygrids or polylist widgets but on first look it seems that both have fixed/uniform row heights, whereas datagrid form rows can dynamically resize their height according to their content - ie individual rows can have different heights.
>> 
>> Is that right, or am I missing something?
>> 
>> Terry
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
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From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com  Fri Aug 16 11:50:02 2024
From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2024 17:50:02 +0200
Subject: Polygrid or polylist as datagrid form replacement?
In-Reply-To: <D76E1FF9-49ED-4FFF-9C55-C00A52B941C0@gmail.com>
References: <ME3PR01MB80823F09254D42CDF5123A7FB7812@ME3PR01MB8082.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
 <D76E1FF9-49ED-4FFF-9C55-C00A52B941C0@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0149E401-1C06-43E5-BE42-75D2A6FF6DE5@gmail.com>

So, Terry is correct: Polygrid and Polylist currently have fixed/uniform row heights. I hope that might be enhanced one day. So if variable row height is a requirement, you’ll have to stick with the Datagrid for now.

This was also discussed in the Forum last year, including hints on how to achieve variable row heights in a Datagrid: 
https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=37819&p=222950&hilit=datagrid#p222950

/Andreas

> 16 aug. 2024 kl. 12:02 skrev Mark Smith via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi Terry, I can’t answer your question but I am curious if you have any code you use to dynamically resize the row height in a datagrid. I am very interested in doing this.
> 
> Thanks
> Mark
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Aug 16, 2024, at 7:35 AM, Terry Judd via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I’ve been using datagrid form objects for a number of years and am investigating the viability of replacing them with polygrids or polylist widgets but on first look it seems that both have fixed/uniform row heights, whereas datagrid form rows can dynamically resize their height according to their content - ie individual rows can have different heights.
>> 
>> Is that right, or am I missing something?
>> 
>> Terry
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
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From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au  Fri Aug 16 16:44:36 2024
From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2024 20:44:36 +0000
Subject: Polygrid or polylist as datagrid form replacement?
In-Reply-To: <0149E401-1C06-43E5-BE42-75D2A6FF6DE5@gmail.com>
References: <ME3PR01MB80823F09254D42CDF5123A7FB7812@ME3PR01MB8082.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
 <D76E1FF9-49ED-4FFF-9C55-C00A52B941C0@gmail.com>
 <0149E401-1C06-43E5-BE42-75D2A6FF6DE5@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ME3PR01MB808208C8F471FCE9469049D8B7812@ME3PR01MB8082.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>

Thanks Andreas – that lesson explains how it works for Mark much more clearly than I could in the space of an email.

Form datagrids are great but they can be a bit slow to render when they contain a lot of stuff. I use them to create fairly complex asssessment feedback reports (PDFs) to students and I was looking for possible ways to speed up the generation process. I guess I’ll just stick with what works.

Regards – Terry

So, Terry is correct: Polygrid and Polylist currently have fixed/uniform row heights. I hope that might be enhanced one day. So if variable row height is a requirement, you’ll have to stick with the Datagrid for now.

This was also discussed in the Forum last year, including hints on how to achieve variable row heights in a Datagrid:
https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=37819&p=222950&hilit=datagrid#p222950

/Andreas

> 16 aug. 2024 kl. 12:02 skrev Mark Smith via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>
> Hi Terry, I can’t answer your question but I am curious if you have any code you use to dynamically resize the row height in a datagrid. I am very interested in doing this.
>
> Thanks
> Mark
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Aug 16, 2024, at 7:35 AM, Terry Judd via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> I’ve been using datagrid form objects for a number of years and am investigating the viability of replacing them with polygrids or polylist widgets but on first look it seems that both have fixed/uniform row heights, whereas datagrid form rows can dynamically resize their height according to their content - ie individual rows can have different heights.
>>
>> Is that right, or am I missing something?
>>
>> Terry
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
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From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com  Sat Aug 17 10:43:01 2024
From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal)
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2024 16:43:01 +0200
Subject: LC Create Cloud advanced developer questions
In-Reply-To: <5746ED6C-3959-4161-8DFE-11D602A9493A@livecode.com>
References: <931E4E58-4809-4FA2-BD08-D42006732638@gmail.com>
 <5746ED6C-3959-4161-8DFE-11D602A9493A@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <1588CFF1-6529-4F94-AAEF-F7815567D029@gmail.com>

Thanks Kevin, that all sounds very good and promising. I support the attribution idea.

(I posted the questions in the LCC forum as well, as per Heather's suggestion, and Steven added your reply there. So I’m happy to continue any discussion over there.)

/Andreas 

> 16 aug. 2024 kl. 13:23 skrev Kevin Miller via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Thanks for this. We had a quick chat internally and actually we're happy for Create questions to be posted either here or on the forum. However please post bug reports only on the forums as that is where the developers hang out.
> 
> 1. At present you can "almost" do this by sharing log in details. Doing this better with multiple log-ins per account has been very much part of the road map from the start. We're really excited about this aspect of things actually, we can see a whole class of apps where people choose to distribute them inside the IDE instead of deploying. As we start to implement this properly we may begin by just being as granular as locking one layout at a time. As things evolve we're looking at developing this to the point where you can do better real time sharing, versioning, code reviews etc.
> 
> 2. We don't yet have a plugins system in Cloud, however it will be coming soon. There is a real opportunity to make it super easy to share and import components. A marketplace is one way to do this. Allowing a searchable repository of shared script steps and templates (within those IDE features) is another. We're also considering things like whether or not we want to allow attribution (small company logo and a link) if you share a script step. So if you're a consulting service you would get your website in front of people while simultaneously looking useful & knowledgeable to prospects, right from within the IDE.
> 
> 3. This is essentially similar to the multi-user question. If you grant access to a support account to come in we would be able to do that, obviously if you don't do so then we couldn't.
> 
> Kind regards, 
> 
> Kevin 
> 
> Kevin Miller ~ kevin at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ 
> LiveCode: Build Amazing Things 
> 
> 
> 
> On 16/08/2024, 10:19, "use-livecode on behalf of Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode" <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> on behalf of use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:
> 
> 
> I have some questions to LC HQ on aspects of LC Create Cloud that I believe have not yet been discussed at all (unless I’ve missed something).
> 
> 
> 1) If several developers want to cooperate, is it then possible for multiple users to log in to the same project in LC Create Cloud? And if not possible now from the start, is it something that’s on the road map? 
> 
> 
> 2) Even if I’m a lone developer, I may want to make use of the work of others, like we've done so extensively in LC Classic. How can plugin stacks and helper tools made by others be implemented or accessed in my LC Create Cloud project? If I can’t have more than one stack open at the same time, it seems difficult to use such things.
> 
> 
> Related to that, can I have my own "script repository” where I store script-only stacks or something, which all my projects can make calls to? Could I even share that repository so other developers can make calls to it? 
> 
> 
> Wouldn’t it be very interesting if many general utility scripts could be made available in a similar way to how e.g. Python works, where you put ”import [library]” at the top of a script, and all the modules/handlers can then be accessed by the script?
> 
> 
> All this can of course be done already in the sense that you can fetch any LC stack that’s been made available on a server and ”start using” it. But I think LC Create Cloud has the potential to offer such a feature in a more secure an accessible way - to everyone! Is this something you have considered?
> 
> 
> 3) Regardless of whether "multiple users per account" functionality will be there or not - will LC support staff be able to more easily provide support in LC Create Cloud by accessing projects (at the user’s request) and trouble-shoot or obtain bug documentation? I imagine it should facilitate things in that respect.
> 
> 
> /Andreas


From cszasz at mac.com  Sat Aug 17 12:24:41 2024
From: cszasz at mac.com (Charles Szasz)
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2024 10:24:41 -0600
Subject: Extracting test scores from a PDF
Message-ID: <78862B56-CBD8-4BD6-9164-C9209B7EF661@mac.com>

I came a web app that can extract test scores from a PDF and insert them into an app.  Can LC do the same thing?  


Sent from my iPad

From paul at researchware.com  Sat Aug 17 14:16:40 2024
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2024 14:16:40 -0400
Subject: Extracting test scores from a PDF
In-Reply-To: <78862B56-CBD8-4BD6-9164-C9209B7EF661@mac.com>
References: <78862B56-CBD8-4BD6-9164-C9209B7EF661@mac.com>
Message-ID: <4580676d-125a-4eb8-be91-67fdd79db6c6@researchware.com>

On 8/17/2024 12:24 PM, Charles Szasz via use-livecode wrote:
> I came a web app that can extract test scores from a PDF and insert them into an app.  Can LC do the same thing?
>

I assume you mean can a programmer write an app in Livecode to extract 
test scores from a PDF and do something with them.

If the PDF has the test scores as text in the PDF (vs just a scanned 
image), then, yes, you can make a Livecode app that uses the PDF widget 
to open the PDF and retrieve the text from it and then parse that text 
for the test scores. If there is a routine pattern to the how the test 
scores appear, it will be easier to parse the text.



From curry at pair.com  Sat Aug 17 16:11:55 2024
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2024 16:11:55 -0400
Subject: A friendly reminder to read the new EULA - common privacy/security
 expectations
Message-ID: <47429f74-733a-45f1-a369-9cb51f12a3af@pair.com>

Sorry I haven't posted sooner - enjoyed the comments.
(Thanks to 2 friends who sent congrats that I'm typing more again!)

As expected, it's good to see LC adding features that have become
common modern development expectations in today's world.

Meanwhile, hopefully the EULA will also be modernized, to fit
common privacy/security expectations in today's world!

So, a friendly reminder - read the new EULA beforehand.
(Any purchase of LC Create applies these terms to LC Classic too.)

Not a problem for some, depending on your own situation; I'm glad!

But 3rd party consultants know common mainstream expectations -
increasingly conscious about privacy, higher security, etc.
I've heard similar concerns from other LC consultants.

Folks are wary of things like tracking, data sharing, audits!
Many new clients and referrals won't trust a EULA full of these.
Especially in IT and government, but among consumer/biz too.

Hopefully we'll see samples for the opt-outs, added options -
and improved EULA text for mainstream LC adoption.
(A simple process that does not offset productivity.)

Anyway, a great weekend to all! Keep safe and civil.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development -
"RESURRECT old/broken LC projects! The future awaits..."
https://livecodeconsulting.com/


From curry at pair.com  Sat Aug 17 17:10:27 2024
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2024 17:10:27 -0400
Subject: Livecode Future - and Microsoft past
In-Reply-To: <E7BAECD4-7C09-4B91-8E9A-B5937D23F780@gmail.com>
References: <E7BAECD4-7C09-4B91-8E9A-B5937D23F780@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3e8dc864-046b-4cfe-9b0d-d212727137f8@pair.com>

doc hawk:

 > Somewhere in my files I have a (typed!) letter from Microsoft
 > from 1989 or 1990 responding to my suggestion as a software
 > developer suggesting that BASIC be attached to MS Word.

 > The gist was that it was an intriguing idea,
 > but they had no plans for such a thing.

I had to follow up on this; just couldn't do it sooner -

That's a wow moment, pretty epic and fun! Thanks for sharing that.
The flurry BEHIND that same typewriter would be a sight to behold. :)

(Looks like WordBasic and macro language history before VBA
varied a lot between DOS, Windows and Mac versions.)

I enjoyed all the comments and seeing many a great person pop up -
Sorry I couldn't respond to more, but many good ones lately.

I hope you are ALL doing well!

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
"PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
https://livecodeconsulting.com/



From heather at livecode.com  Wed Aug 21 11:36:57 2024
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2024 16:36:57 +0100
Subject: LiveCode Create 1.0 dp-2 released with engine level JSON
Message-ID: <7A2EFC3A-2103-454E-AD64-372E089CA1B4@livecode.com>

Hi Folks,

We're pleased to announce a new release of LiveCode Create, dp-2. In this release the major feature is new, improved, engine level JSON, available to Create Cloud, Create Native and the embedded Create Classic option within Create Native. To learn more about the JSON improvements, go here:

https://future.livecode.com/dp2-json/

On the engine side, this release brings:

    • saving a standalone for web now works when using a Universal license in Create's Classic mode
    • modifying strings in array elements is now substantially faster
    • there is a new is a sequence operator which returns true for arrays which have keys 1, ..., N
    • there is a new is a numeric sequence operator which returns true for arrays which have keys -M, ..., N
    • the combine command now sorts arrays which return true for is a numeric sequence in (ascending) numeric order
    • there are a new family of as <type> operators which convert a value to a given type, and throw an error if they cannot be, e.g. tVar as a number converts 100
    • there are new fast and accurate json encoding and decoding functions jsonEncode and jsonDecode
    • to support roundtripping values through json using the new functions, it is now possible to mark an array as preferring to be a dictionary (maps to JSON object) or preferring to be a sequence (maps to JSON array) using as a dictionary or as a sequence operators
    • the existing JSON Library functions JsonImport and JsonExport have been reimplemented using the builtin engine support and as such are substantially faster

On the Create IDE side, this is just a short list of some of the bugs we have addressed:

    • Logging out on web no longer causes a hang
    • Empty layouts no longer generated after exiting without saving
    • Non user placed objects no longer appear in the project browser
    • The color picker editor no longer accepts incorrectly formatted colors
    • Icons on the left bar should now accurately reflect the opened state of the related palette
    • Pressing enter or return key in a dialog field no longer causes a hang

Many more issues have been sorted, and we're eagerly looking forward to to DP-3 which will squish many more.

For purchasers, this release is now available from your LiveCode account, under the "LiveCode Create" tab. It has been pushed to the Cloud so the web version is already running dp-2. Not got it yet? Go here:

https://future.livecode.com/buy

Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com





From cszasz at mac.com  Wed Aug 21 17:37:54 2024
From: cszasz at mac.com (Charles Szasz)
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2024 15:37:54 -0600
Subject: use-livecode Digest, Vol 251, Issue 19
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1724256002.383443.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.1.1724256002.383443.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <87DAC867-176E-4A4F-A3B4-3245DC176572@mac.com>

Heather,

Please send a new password so I can access LC Create.  I know you are really busy. So, when you have time please me a new password.  

Also, I looked forward to receiving estimates of LC program work. 

Thanks!

Sent from my iPad

> On Aug 21, 2024, at 10:01 AM, use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:
> 
> Send use-livecode mailing list submissions to
>    use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
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> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of use-livecode digest..."
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> and search them using this link:
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> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. LiveCode Create 1.0 dp-2 released with engine level JSON
>      (Heather Laine)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2024 16:36:57 +0100
> From: Heather Laine <heather at livecode.com>
> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: LiveCode Create 1.0 dp-2 released with engine level JSON
> Message-ID: <7A2EFC3A-2103-454E-AD64-372E089CA1B4 at livecode.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=utf-8
> 
> Hi Folks,
> 
> We're pleased to announce a new release of LiveCode Create, dp-2. In this release the major feature is new, improved, engine level JSON, available to Create Cloud, Create Native and the embedded Create Classic option within Create Native. To learn more about the JSON improvements, go here:
> 
> https://future.livecode.com/dp2-json/
> 
> On the engine side, this release brings:
> 
>    ? saving a standalone for web now works when using a Universal license in Create's Classic mode
>    ? modifying strings in array elements is now substantially faster
>    ? there is a new is a sequence operator which returns true for arrays which have keys 1, ..., N
>    ? there is a new is a numeric sequence operator which returns true for arrays which have keys -M, ..., N
>    ? the combine command now sorts arrays which return true for is a numeric sequence in (ascending) numeric order
>    ? there are a new family of as <type> operators which convert a value to a given type, and throw an error if they cannot be, e.g. tVar as a number converts 100
>    ? there are new fast and accurate json encoding and decoding functions jsonEncode and jsonDecode
>    ? to support roundtripping values through json using the new functions, it is now possible to mark an array as preferring to be a dictionary (maps to JSON object) or preferring to be a sequence (maps to JSON array) using as a dictionary or as a sequence operators
>    ? the existing JSON Library functions JsonImport and JsonExport have been reimplemented using the builtin engine support and as such are substantially faster
> 
> On the Create IDE side, this is just a short list of some of the bugs we have addressed:
> 
>    ? Logging out on web no longer causes a hang
>    ? Empty layouts no longer generated after exiting without saving
>    ? Non user placed objects no longer appear in the project browser
>    ? The color picker editor no longer accepts incorrectly formatted colors
>    ? Icons on the left bar should now accurately reflect the opened state of the related palette
>    ? Pressing enter or return key in a dialog field no longer causes a hang
> 
> Many more issues have been sorted, and we're eagerly looking forward to to DP-3 which will squish many more.
> 
> For purchasers, this release is now available from your LiveCode account, under the "LiveCode Create" tab. It has been pushed to the Cloud so the web version is already running dp-2. Not got it yet? Go here:
> 
> https://future.livecode.com/buy
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Subject: Digest Footer
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> End of use-livecode Digest, Vol 251, Issue 19
> *********************************************


From curry at pair.com  Thu Aug 22 01:13:16 2024
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2024 01:13:16 -0400
Subject: Productivity is the key - not paperwork.
Message-ID: <ad044a42-4bd4-4b3f-9a95-8c53ba6516e1@pair.com>

I'm not energetic enough to be comfortable yet with Create's EULA.

Time and energy are precious for everyone! Thus, efficiency -
especially those with handicaps, chronic fatigue, or even seniority. :)

For me, saving energy is crucial. So I've specialized; 100% LC.
When someone asks me about any project, my answer has been: LiveCode!

Keep it simple. My Dad's air force motto. I like it that way.

LC Create would be a natural next step in energy-saving.
(And I'm nostalgic for code actions; used VPL often, 20 years ago!)

This would be a joyful moment for me -

But Create's productivity is OFFSET by unusual reporting demands,
along with privacy/security concerns. All time-consuming to resolve:

- 'if I didn't have that LiveCode component how much income would I 
lose? That's the percentage you need to pay us on. We will ask to see 
how you worked out this percentage.'

- 'can I turn off tracking for my apps? - Yes, you can do this, on an 
app by app basis, after discussing and agreeing a custom license 
agreement with us. Note that this may mean we ask you for detailed 
tracking on your app sales, since we won't be able to track it ourselves.'

And so on - looks bureaucratic, complex, high-energy, work-intensive.
That is ongoing (e)paperwork, a drain to offset productivity.

For me, that much added old-style paperwork is just not feasible,
along with the privacy/security concerns in some areas -

It means being forced to consider 'LC or not' per project.
Some very ideal, some not at all - mostly due to fine print.

This feels like a step backward; I prefer 100% LC.
But today many low-code platforms, with much less paperwork!

I hope the new Create EULA will soon be modernized,
to fit today's world, and do justice to the new features.

Thought it might be worth another try, planting an idea-seed. :)

Back to work - Thank you.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development -
"RESURRECT old/broken LC projects! The future awaits..."
https://livecodeconsulting.com/


From klaus at major-k.de  Fri Aug 23 05:55:13 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2024 11:55:13 +0200
Subject: Error creating Android Standalone
Message-ID: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>

Hi friends,

I get an error when creating an Android runtime:
----------------------------------------------
There was an error while saving the standalone application could not encode class bundle - error:
Error: AJNI error has occurred, please check your installation and try again Exception in thread "main" java.lang. UnsupportedClassVersionError:
com/android/tools/r8/D8 has been compiled by a more recent version of the Java Runtime (class file version 55.0), this version of the Java Runtime only recognizes class file versions up to 52.0
at java.lang.ClassLoader.defineClass 1(Native Method)
at java.lang.ClassLoader.defineClass(ClassLoader.java:756)
at java.security.SecureClassLoader.defineClass(SecureClassLoader.java:142)
at java.net.URLClassLoader.defineClass(URLClassLoader.java:473)
at java.net.URLClassLoader.access$100(URLClassLoader.java:74)
at java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run(URLClassLoader.java:369)
at java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run(URLClassLoader.java:363)
at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method) at java.net.URLClassLoader.findClass(URLClassLoader.java:362)
at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:418)
at sun.misc.LauncherSAppClassLoader.loadClass(Launcher.java:355)
at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:351)
at sun.launcher.LauncherHelper.checkAndLoadMain(LauncherHelper.java:601)
-------------------------------------------------

MacMini M2, macOS 14.6.1
LC 10 rc1
Android Studio Iguana | 2023.2.1 Patch 1
Build #AI-232.10300.40.2321.11567975, built on March 13, 2024
Runtime version: 17.0.9+0-17.0.9b1087.7-11185874 aarch64
VM: OpenJDK 64-Bit Server VM by JetBrains s.r.o.
macOS 14.6.1
GC: G1 Young Generation, G1 Old Generation
Memory: 2048M
Cores: 8
Metal Rendering is ON
Registry:
    ide.experimental.ui=true
-------------------------------------------------

What can I do? Any hints very welcome!


Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From livfoss at mac.com  Fri Aug 23 07:10:39 2024
From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2024 12:10:39 +0100
Subject: Bowing Out
Message-ID: <F4D01149-7B73-471E-948C-9F6DBE19720B@mac.com>

Just a quick note to say that after many years of using LiveCode (including its predecessors) and doing some modest development - some of which was successfully sold to real users - I’ve decided that for me time’s up. This is because of seniority (as someone recently put it - I’m old!) and the feeling that at my time of life I can’t productively invest time or money in learning about Create and the whole direction of the LC technology. I’ve had fun over the years, and have benefitted hugely from the generosity and expertise of those on this list and of course from the direct support of the whole Kevin circus. I’ll miss it all.

For what it's worth, I have seen the Create demo and tried to understand the underlying model of app that is being aimed at. If I were still trying to contribute, I would be asking about how Create can help with apps that depend on user interaction with animations, and apps that are driven by external triggers like changing GPS coordinates, and most of all, about how far Create will assist with deployment, particularly on iOS - an issue that can dwarf the actual development effort of an app in terms of time and resources. If Create can take the user all the way from internal beta test to publication, that would be an achievement worth celebrating.

Anyway, it’s a great product that deserves success - so good luck to all involved.

I’ll lurk for a little longer, but really its goodbye and thanks for all the fish.

Graham

From jbv at souslelogo.com  Fri Aug 23 07:27:54 2024
From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2024 07:27:54 -0400
Subject: How to check if a group contains a specific control ?
Message-ID: <963358ee2ad8f11dfe3b95f474d3891c@souslelogo.com>

Hi list,

Is there a quick way to check if a group contains a specific control,
something like :
if there is a fld "xyz" in grp "abc" of this cd

I tried many things but it always generates an error.
So far, the only way I can think of is to maintain a custom prop
for each group, featuring a string that is the list of all controls
names of the group.

Thank you in advance.
jbv


From klaus at major-k.de  Fri Aug 23 07:45:56 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2024 13:45:56 +0200
Subject: How to check if a group contains a specific control ?
In-Reply-To: <963358ee2ad8f11dfe3b95f474d3891c@souslelogo.com>
References: <963358ee2ad8f11dfe3b95f474d3891c@souslelogo.com>
Message-ID: <00DD9EFE-2671-4716-AAC3-92EEB4D89709@major-k.de>

Hi jbv,

> Am 23.08.2024 um 13:27 schrieb jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi list,
> 
> Is there a quick way to check if a group contains a specific control,
> something like :
> if there is a fld "xyz" in grp "abc" of this cd
> I tried many things but it always generates an error.
> So far, the only way I can think of is to maintain a custom prop
> for each group, featuring a string that is the list of all controls
> names of the group.

if you don't have any other controls with the same name, 
you could check: 
-> lineoffset("xyz",the childcontrolnames of grp "abc")

> Thank you in advance.
> jbv

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From ilola.antti at gmail.com  Fri Aug 23 07:46:38 2024
From: ilola.antti at gmail.com (Antti Ilola)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2024 14:46:38 +0300
Subject: Bowing Out
In-Reply-To: <F4D01149-7B73-471E-948C-9F6DBE19720B@mac.com>
References: <F4D01149-7B73-471E-948C-9F6DBE19720B@mac.com>
Message-ID: <CAEKyzxNoizffEZ5A7Fb6xk+ya4ZPqn0Z5eqVO3gSvNTQ-+jukg@mail.gmail.com>

+1

pe 23.8.2024 klo 14.12 Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> kirjoitti:

> Just a quick note to say that after many years of using LiveCode
> (including its predecessors) and doing some modest development - some of
> which was successfully sold to real users - I’ve decided that for me time’s
> up. This is because of seniority (as someone recently put it - I’m old!)
> and the feeling that at my time of life I can’t productively invest time or
> money in learning about Create and the whole direction of the LC
> technology. I’ve had fun over the years, and have benefitted hugely from
> the generosity and expertise of those on this list and of course from the
> direct support of the whole Kevin circus. I’ll miss it all.
>
> For what it's worth, I have seen the Create demo and tried to understand
> the underlying model of app that is being aimed at. If I were still trying
> to contribute, I would be asking about how Create can help with apps that
> depend on user interaction with animations, and apps that are driven by
> external triggers like changing GPS coordinates, and most of all, about how
> far Create will assist with deployment, particularly on iOS - an issue that
> can dwarf the actual development effort of an app in terms of time and
> resources. If Create can take the user all the way from internal beta test
> to publication, that would be an achievement worth celebrating.
>
> Anyway, it’s a great product that deserves success - so good luck to all
> involved.
>
> I’ll lurk for a little longer, but really its goodbye and thanks for all
> the fish.
>
> Graham
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From paul at researchware.com  Fri Aug 23 08:04:43 2024
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2024 08:04:43 -0400
Subject: How to check if a group contains a specific control ?
In-Reply-To: <00DD9EFE-2671-4716-AAC3-92EEB4D89709@major-k.de>
References: <963358ee2ad8f11dfe3b95f474d3891c@souslelogo.com>
 <00DD9EFE-2671-4716-AAC3-92EEB4D89709@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <c386b4f7-0f8e-44c9-b2fb-3acae4788f16@researchware.com>

On 8/23/2024 7:45 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi jbv,
>
>> Am 23.08.2024 um 13:27 schrieb jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>
>> Hi list,
>>
>> Is there a quick way to check if a group contains a specific control,
>> something like :
>> if there is a fld "xyz" in grp "abc" of this cd
>> I tried many things but it always generates an error.
>> So far, the only way I can think of is to maintain a custom prop
>> for each group, featuring a string that is the list of all controls
>> names of the group.
> if you don't have any other controls with the same name,
> you could check:
> -> lineoffset("xyz",the childcontrolnames of grp "abc")
>

or, if you prefer:

if "xyz" is among the lines of the childcontrolnames of group "abc" then

NOTE: As mentioned, "xyz" would need to be a unique name for control in 
the group. If you have a field "xyz" and a button "xyz" (or 2 buttons or 
2 or more fields with the same name, etc.) this is not accurate.



From brian at milby7.com  Fri Aug 23 08:48:15 2024
From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2024 08:48:15 -0400
Subject: How to check if a group contains a specific control ?
In-Reply-To: <c386b4f7-0f8e-44c9-b2fb-3acae4788f16@researchware.com>
References: <c386b4f7-0f8e-44c9-b2fb-3acae4788f16@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <6364A226-62B7-44D4-BB60-030BC87A7DE6@milby7.com>

Another alternative.

If the short id of fld "xyz" is among the lines of the childcontrolids of group "abc" then …

This one should work as long as there is only one field with that name on the card (tried from message box).

Brian Milby
brian at milby7.com

> On Aug 23, 2024, at 8:05 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> On 8/23/2024 7:45 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hi jbv,
>> 
>>>> Am 23.08.2024 um 13:27 schrieb jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> Hi list,
>>> 
>>> Is there a quick way to check if a group contains a specific control,
>>> something like :
>>> if there is a fld "xyz" in grp "abc" of this cd
>>> I tried many things but it always generates an error.
>>> So far, the only way I can think of is to maintain a custom prop
>>> for each group, featuring a string that is the list of all controls
>>> names of the group.
>> if you don't have any other controls with the same name,
>> you could check:
>> -> lineoffset("xyz",the childcontrolnames of grp "abc")
>> 
> 
> or, if you prefer:
> 
> if "xyz" is among the lines of the childcontrolnames of group "abc" then
> 
> NOTE: As mentioned, "xyz" would need to be a unique name for control in the group. If you have a field "xyz" and a button "xyz" (or 2 buttons or 2 or more fields with the same name, etc.) this is not accurate.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Aug 23 11:08:28 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2024 15:08:28 +0000
Subject: Bowing Out
In-Reply-To: <F4D01149-7B73-471E-948C-9F6DBE19720B@mac.com>
References: <F4D01149-7B73-471E-948C-9F6DBE19720B@mac.com>
Message-ID: <F9A6AD12-C25A-465F-BA67-D22014E40A11@iotecdigital.com>

+42

> On Aug 23, 2024, at 4:10 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Just a quick note to say that after many years of using LiveCode (including its predecessors) and doing some modest development - some of which was successfully sold to real users - I’ve decided that for me time’s up. This is because of seniority (as someone recently put it - I’m old!) and the feeling that at my time of life I can’t productively invest time or money in learning about Create and the whole direction of the LC technology. I’ve had fun over the years, and have benefitted hugely from the generosity and expertise of those on this list and of course from the direct support of the whole Kevin circus. I’ll miss it all.
> 
> For what it's worth, I have seen the Create demo and tried to understand the underlying model of app that is being aimed at. If I were still trying to contribute, I would be asking about how Create can help with apps that depend on user interaction with animations, and apps that are driven by external triggers like changing GPS coordinates, and most of all, about how far Create will assist with deployment, particularly on iOS - an issue that can dwarf the actual development effort of an app in terms of time and resources. If Create can take the user all the way from internal beta test to publication, that would be an achievement worth celebrating.
> 
> Anyway, it’s a great product that deserves success - so good luck to all involved.
> 
> I’ll lurk for a little longer, but really its goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
> 
> Graham
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From jeff at siphonophore.com  Fri Aug 23 15:37:56 2024
From: jeff at siphonophore.com (Jeff Reynolds)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2024 15:37:56 -0400
Subject: Bowing Out
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1724428801.123729.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.1.1724428801.123729.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <C75EA50A-8309-49CE-8FFE-0C63DF8C5B8F@siphonophore.com>

Graham,

I was going to send a similar post for myself, but yours is so spot on for me as well along with the fish, I’ll just say me too.

7x6

Jeff 

> On Aug 23, 2024, at 12:02 PM, use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:
> 
> Just a quick note to say that after many years of using LiveCode (including its predecessors) and doing some modest development - some of which was successfully sold to real users - I?ve decided that for me time?s up. This is because of seniority (as someone recently put it - I?m old!) and the feeling that at my time of life I can?t productively invest time or money in learning about Create and the whole direction of the LC technology. I?ve had fun over the years, and have benefitted hugely from the generosity and expertise of those on this list and of course from the direct support of the whole Kevin circus. I?ll miss it all.
> 
> For what it's worth, I have seen the Create demo and tried to understand the underlying model of app that is being aimed at. If I were still trying to contribute, I would be asking about how Create can help with apps that depend on user interaction with animations, and apps that are driven by external triggers like changing GPS coordinates, and most of all, about how far Create will assist with deployment, particularly on iOS - an issue that can dwarf the actual development effort of an app in terms of time and resources. If Create can take the user all the way from internal beta test to publication, that would be an achievement worth celebrating.
> 
> Anyway, it?s a great product that deserves success - so good luck to all involved.
> 
> I?ll lurk for a little longer, but really its goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
> 
> Graham



From christerp1 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 23 16:25:55 2024
From: christerp1 at gmail.com (=?utf-8?Q?Christer_Pyyhti=C3=A4?=)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2024 23:25:55 +0300
Subject: Bowing Out
In-Reply-To: <C75EA50A-8309-49CE-8FFE-0C63DF8C5B8F@siphonophore.com>
References: <mailman.1.1724428801.123729.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <C75EA50A-8309-49CE-8FFE-0C63DF8C5B8F@siphonophore.com>
Message-ID: <6844397B-AB67-40EE-8EF4-B4BEA9A55B35@gmail.com>

Thank you for telling of your views.

How’s about sharing the experiences?

Now which were the great inventions you made in creating your apps with LC? What were the biggest obstacles? What creations what you made were getting the best appreciations by your customers? Were there any problems you were no able to overcome in making your app where you wanted it to be?

Were you able to first write specs for the job and find out it was easier / more difficult to code with LC?

I could continue this, but what was the most difficult getting it done with LC?

Just to add here, as in any coding problem, in my mind it sometimes took too many rounds to get there, making it frustrating. Yet, with LC, the coding was so intuitive, I nearly could just write the spec, and get it running. And now there is an amount of ready coded / automatically rewritable blocks with Create - maybe beating your own blocks.

Let me know.


Christer Pyyhtiä
christerp1 at gmail.com



> On 23. Aug 2024, at 22.37, Jeff Reynolds via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Graham,
> 
> I was going to send a similar post for myself, but yours is so spot on for me as well along with the fish, I’ll just say me too.
> 
> 7x6
> 
> Jeff 
> 
>> On Aug 23, 2024, at 12:02 PM, use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:
>> 
>> Just a quick note to say that after many years of using LiveCode (including its predecessors) and doing some modest development - some of which was successfully sold to real users - I?ve decided that for me time?s up. This is because of seniority (as someone recently put it - I?m old!) and the feeling that at my time of life I can?t productively invest time or money in learning about Create and the whole direction of the LC technology. I?ve had fun over the years, and have benefitted hugely from the generosity and expertise of those on this list and of course from the direct support of the whole Kevin circus. I?ll miss it all.
>> 
>> For what it's worth, I have seen the Create demo and tried to understand the underlying model of app that is being aimed at. If I were still trying to contribute, I would be asking about how Create can help with apps that depend on user interaction with animations, and apps that are driven by external triggers like changing GPS coordinates, and most of all, about how far Create will assist with deployment, particularly on iOS - an issue that can dwarf the actual development effort of an app in terms of time and resources. If Create can take the user all the way from internal beta test to publication, that would be an achievement worth celebrating.
>> 
>> Anyway, it?s a great product that deserves success - so good luck to all involved.
>> 
>> I?ll lurk for a little longer, but really its goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
>> 
>> Graham
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From dick.kriesel at mail.com  Sat Aug 24 21:36:25 2024
From: dick.kriesel at mail.com (Dick Kriesel)
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2024 18:36:25 -0700
Subject: How to check if a group contains a specific control ?
In-Reply-To: <6364A226-62B7-44D4-BB60-030BC87A7DE6@milby7.com>
References: <c386b4f7-0f8e-44c9-b2fb-3acae4788f16@researchware.com>
 <6364A226-62B7-44D4-BB60-030BC87A7DE6@milby7.com>
Message-ID: <2D387847-74B5-4D20-AFB2-3C743DF33DCE@mail.com>

yet another alternative:

if the long id of <your control> ends with the long id of <your group> then …

this catches controls whose ownership includes intervening grouping between your control and your group

— Dick

> On Aug 23, 2024, at 5:48 AM, Brian Milby via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Another alternative.
> 
> If the short id of fld "xyz" is among the lines of the childcontrolids of group "abc" then …
> 
> This one should work as long as there is only one field with that name on the card (tried from message box).
> 
> Brian Milby
> brian at milby7.com
> 
>> On Aug 23, 2024, at 8:05 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> On 8/23/2024 7:45 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Hi jbv,
>>> 
>>>>> Am 23.08.2024 um 13:27 schrieb jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi list,
>>>> 
>>>> Is there a quick way to check if a group contains a specific control,
>>>> something like :
>>>> if there is a fld "xyz" in grp "abc" of this cd
>>>> I tried many things but it always generates an error.
>>>> So far, the only way I can think of is to maintain a custom prop
>>>> for each group, featuring a string that is the list of all controls
>>>> names of the group.
>>> if you don't have any other controls with the same name,
>>> you could check:
>>> -> lineoffset("xyz",the childcontrolnames of grp "abc")
>>> 
>> 
>> or, if you prefer:
>> 
>> if "xyz" is among the lines of the childcontrolnames of group "abc" then
>> 
>> NOTE: As mentioned, "xyz" would need to be a unique name for control in the group. If you have a field "xyz" and a button "xyz" (or 2 buttons or 2 or more fields with the same name, etc.) this is not accurate.
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From curry at pair.com  Sun Aug 25 04:53:34 2024
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2024 04:53:34 -0400
Subject: Bowing Out
In-Reply-To: <F4D01149-7B73-471E-948C-9F6DBE19720B@mac.com>
References: <F4D01149-7B73-471E-948C-9F6DBE19720B@mac.com>
Message-ID: <c76e7b6d-207e-4955-8293-a964d91ba238@pair.com>

Graham:

 > but really its goodbye and thanks for all the fish.

Much love/respect, appreciation, and an extra-special fish -

Keep in touch on/off-list.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
"PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
https://livecodeconsulting.com/


From curry at pair.com  Sun Aug 25 19:01:12 2024
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2024 19:01:12 -0400
Subject: How to check if a group contains a specific control ?
In-Reply-To: <963358ee2ad8f11dfe3b95f474d3891c@souslelogo.com>
References: <963358ee2ad8f11dfe3b95f474d3891c@souslelogo.com>
Message-ID: <7383f4d0-6296-4a61-9135-7ed47bfa35d8@pair.com>

jbv:

 > Is there a quick way to check if a group contains a specific control,
 > something like : if there is a fld "xyz" in grp "abc" of this cd
 > I tried many things but it always generates an error.

Here is an easy and elegant way - almost what you started with!
The key is 'of' versus 'in'. They are not quite the same.

Try this - tested Win/Mac, LC 9.6:

if there is a field "xyz" of group "abc" of this card then answer "xyz"
put there is a field "xyz" of group "abc" of this card & cr after t

For objects/controls, 'of' is the correct syntax.
But 'in' is mainly used for text. Not a safe substitute here!

(The Message Box may just ignore everything after 'in' -
testing only for a field "xyz". That can confuse about 'of' and 'in'.)

The Script Editor will actually error, since 'in' is unexpected.

Happy coding...

Curry Kenworthy

Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
"PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
https://livecodeconsulting.com/


From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Aug 26 06:30:08 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 12:30:08 +0200
Subject: Error creating Android Standalone
In-Reply-To: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>

Hi all,

I get the same error in the macOS Terminal when trying to execute a JAVA command.
Something is not (yet) installed on my machine!? Question is: what is it?

Please help, thank you!

> Am 23.08.2024 um 11:55 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi friends,
> 
> I get an error when creating an Android runtime:
> ----------------------------------------------
> There was an error while saving the standalone application could not encode class bundle - error:
> Error: AJNI error has occurred, please check your installation and try again Exception in thread "main" java.lang. UnsupportedClassVersionError:
> com/android/tools/r8/D8 has been compiled by a more recent version of the Java Runtime (class file version 55.0), this version of the Java Runtime only recognizes class file versions up to 52.0
> at java.lang.ClassLoader.defineClass 1(Native Method)
> at java.lang.ClassLoader.defineClass(ClassLoader.java:756)
> at java.security.SecureClassLoader.defineClass(SecureClassLoader.java:142)
> at java.net.URLClassLoader.defineClass(URLClassLoader.java:473)
> at java.net.URLClassLoader.access$100(URLClassLoader.java:74)
> at java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run(URLClassLoader.java:369)
> at java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run(URLClassLoader.java:363)
> at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method) at java.net.URLClassLoader.findClass(URLClassLoader.java:362)
> at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:418)
> at sun.misc.LauncherSAppClassLoader.loadClass(Launcher.java:355)
> at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:351)
> at sun.launcher.LauncherHelper.checkAndLoadMain(LauncherHelper.java:601)
> -------------------------------------------------

Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From merakosp at gmail.com  Mon Aug 26 06:43:41 2024
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 13:43:41 +0300
Subject: Error creating Android Standalone
In-Reply-To: <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Klaus,

What is your installed version of the *build-tools*? LiveCode expects
*only* version 31.0.0.

You can find the installed version here - you should have a subfolder named
"31.0.0" here:

/Users/<username>/Library/Android/sdk/build-tools/

If you have any newer version installed too, you have to remove it.

Kind regards,
Panos
--

From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Aug 26 07:00:02 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 13:00:02 +0200
Subject: Error creating Android Standalone
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <442D6A06-5676-45F4-BCDE-67D2C129AC09@major-k.de>

Hello Panos,

> Am 26.08.2024 um 12:43 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hello Klaus,
> 
> What is your installed version of the *build-tools*? LiveCode expects
> *only* version 31.0.0.
> You can find the installed version here - you should have a subfolder named
> "31.0.0" here:
> /Users/<username>/Library/Android/sdk/build-tools/
> If you have any newer version installed too, you have to remove it.
> 
> Kind regards,
> Panos

YES, that was it, I also had build tools 34 installed.
Thank you very much! :-)


Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Aug 26 07:05:15 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 13:05:15 +0200
Subject: Error creating Android Standalone
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7FDF98F6-1158-48C8-8F19-360A52E43EFD@major-k.de>

Hi Panos,

creating Anddroid runtimes now works with LC, however when 
using the macOS Terminal for a JAVA command, I still get these errors:
-------------------------------------------
Error: A JNI error has occurred, please check your installation and try again
Exception in thread "main" java.lang.UnsupportedClassVersionError: com/google/wireless/android/vending/developer/signing/tools/extern/export/ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool has been compiled by a more recent version of the Java Runtime (class file version 55.0), this version of the Java Runtime only recognizes class file versions up to 52.0
at java.lang.ClassLoader.defineClass1(Native Method)
at java.lang.ClassLoader.defineClass(ClassLoader.java:756)
at java.security.SecureClassLoader.defineClass(SecureClassLoader.java:142)
at java.net.URLClassLoader.defineClass(URLClassLoader.java:473)
at java.net.URLClassLoader.access$100(URLClassLoader.java:74)
at java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run(URLClassLoader.java:369)
at java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run(URLClassLoader.java:363)
at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method)
at java.net.URLClassLoader.findClass(URLClassLoader.java:362)
at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:418)
at sun.misc.Launcher$AppClassLoader.loadClass(Launcher.java:355)
at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:351)
at sun.launcher.LauncherHelper.checkAndLoadMain(LauncherHelper.java:601)
-----------------------------------------------
What is still wrong?


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From merakosp at gmail.com  Mon Aug 26 07:19:44 2024
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 14:19:44 +0300
Subject: Error creating Android Standalone
In-Reply-To: <7FDF98F6-1158-48C8-8F19-360A52E43EFD@major-k.de>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <7FDF98F6-1158-48C8-8F19-360A52E43EFD@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq9UiszJiLndFyMRf7XC1c7HmhxajaL4ayB54GQLm7Z9_A@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Klaus,

Hmm, it might be the case the terminal needs a newer Java version than the
one LiveCode expects. LiveCode expects v8.

What Java command do you want to execute in the terminal?

Kind regards,
Panos


On Mon, 26 Aug 2024 at 14:06, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Panos,
>
> creating Anddroid runtimes now works with LC, however when
> using the macOS Terminal for a JAVA command, I still get these errors:
> -------------------------------------------
> Error: A JNI error has occurred, please check your installation and try
> again
> Exception in thread "main" java.lang.UnsupportedClassVersionError:
> com/google/wireless/android/vending/developer/signing/tools/extern/export/ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool
> has been compiled by a more recent version of the Java Runtime (class file
> version 55.0), this version of the Java Runtime only recognizes class file
> versions up to 52.0
> at java.lang.ClassLoader.defineClass1(Native Method)
> at java.lang.ClassLoader.defineClass(ClassLoader.java:756)
> at java.security.SecureClassLoader.defineClass(SecureClassLoader.java:142)
> at java.net.URLClassLoader.defineClass(URLClassLoader.java:473)
> at java.net.URLClassLoader.access$100(URLClassLoader.java:74)
> at java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run(URLClassLoader.java:369)
> at java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run(URLClassLoader.java:363)
> at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method)
> at java.net.URLClassLoader.findClass(URLClassLoader.java:362)
> at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:418)
> at sun.misc.Launcher$AppClassLoader.loadClass(Launcher.java:355)
> at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:351)
> at sun.launcher.LauncherHelper.checkAndLoadMain(LauncherHelper.java:601)
> -----------------------------------------------
> What is still wrong?
>
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Aug 26 07:36:59 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 13:36:59 +0200
Subject: Error creating Android Standalone
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq9UiszJiLndFyMRf7XC1c7HmhxajaL4ayB54GQLm7Z9_A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <7FDF98F6-1158-48C8-8F19-360A52E43EFD@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq9UiszJiLndFyMRf7XC1c7HmhxajaL4ayB54GQLm7Z9_A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E1FB5230-F5FF-45D6-9AC0-B2292E109402@major-k.de>

Hi Panos,

> Am 26.08.2024 um 13:19 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hello Klaus,
> 
> Hmm, it might be the case the terminal needs a newer Java version than the
> one LiveCode expects. LiveCode expects v8.
> What Java command do you want to execute in the terminal?

see my mail from 13:25 with more info.

> Kind regards,
> Panos

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From merakosp at gmail.com  Mon Aug 26 07:50:56 2024
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 14:50:56 +0300
Subject: Error creating Android Standalone
In-Reply-To: <E1FB5230-F5FF-45D6-9AC0-B2292E109402@major-k.de>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <7FDF98F6-1158-48C8-8F19-360A52E43EFD@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq9UiszJiLndFyMRf7XC1c7HmhxajaL4ayB54GQLm7Z9_A@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1FB5230-F5FF-45D6-9AC0-B2292E109402@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq_isvRSh6AKoYP0tHmLnZCP6phZYYxtXaw=Oy219HQF0w@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Klaus,

Hmm, I do not see anything from 13:25 - could you paste it here?

Thanks,
Panos


On Mon, 26 Aug 2024 at 14:38, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Panos,
>
> > Am 26.08.2024 um 13:19 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> >
> > Hello Klaus,
> >
> > Hmm, it might be the case the terminal needs a newer Java version than
> the
> > one LiveCode expects. LiveCode expects v8.
> > What Java command do you want to execute in the terminal?
>
> see my mail from 13:25 with more info.
>
> > Kind regards,
> > Panos
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
>
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Aug 26 07:54:20 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 13:54:20 +0200
Subject: Error creating Android Standalone
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq_isvRSh6AKoYP0tHmLnZCP6phZYYxtXaw=Oy219HQF0w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <7FDF98F6-1158-48C8-8F19-360A52E43EFD@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq9UiszJiLndFyMRf7XC1c7HmhxajaL4ayB54GQLm7Z9_A@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1FB5230-F5FF-45D6-9AC0-B2292E109402@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_isvRSh6AKoYP0tHmLnZCP6phZYYxtXaw=Oy219HQF0w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E796D252-5E5E-4AE1-B7BD-29916781AFE5@major-k.de>

Hi Panos,

> Am 26.08.2024 um 13:50 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hello Klaus,
> 
> Hmm, I do not see anything from 13:25 - could you paste it here?

Sure:
----------------------------------------------------------------
More specific infos:
I need Google to reset my upload keystore file, you may remember, it was about two weeks ago.
Hint: Only the OWNER of the developer account has permission to request a key reset!

I was able to create the new keystore and PEM file as Google suggested:
---------------------------------
1.    • Follow the instructions in the Android Studio Help Center to generate a new key. It must be different from any previous keys, be a 2048-bit RSA key, and have 25-year validity. Alternatively, you can use the following command line to generate a new key:
      • keytool -genkeypair -alias upload -keyalg RSA -keysize 2048 -validity 9125 -keystore keystore.jks
2.    • Export the certificate for that key to PEM format:
      • keytool -export -rfc -alias upload -file upload_certificate.pem -keystore keystore.jks
3.    • Once you have generated a PEM file please follow the steps below:
      • Go to Setup > App integrity > App Signing.
      • Request Upload key reset.
      • Give a reason why you’re requesting a key reset.
      • Enter PEM file.
      • Click Request.
----------------------------------
But on the Google Play Console page for "App singning" Google will not accept the above mentioned (and proposed) PEM file in #3!
I need to download a "pepk.jar" file and use the terninal with this command (as seen 4 days ago on that page):
---------------------------------
$ java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=foo.keystore --alias=foo --output=output.zip signing-keystore=uploadkey.keystore --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias --rsa-aes - encryption --encryption-key-path=/path/to/encryption_public_key.pem

And then I get the errors below.
is the "pepk.jar" the problem and not compatible with my JAVA installation?

Strangely Matthias Rebbe saw this command on the "App singing" page YESTERDAY:
---------------------------------
java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=foo.keystore --alias=foo --output=output.zip --include-cert --rsa-aes-encryption --encryption-key-path=/path/to/encryption_public_key.pem

???

Both commands do not seem to work, I am completely lost and I don't even know where in the commands I need to put MY data in.
OK -> --keysore=##name of my keystore file## 8-)

Please can someone knowing give me some very good advice?
Android deadline (API 34) is this saturday, sigh... :-/
----------------------------------------------------------------

> Thanks,
> Panos
> 
> On Mon, 26 Aug 2024 at 14:38, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Panos,
>> 
>>> Am 26.08.2024 um 13:19 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> Hello Klaus,
>>> 
>>> Hmm, it might be the case the terminal needs a newer Java version than
>> the
>>> one LiveCode expects. LiveCode expects v8.
>>> What Java command do you want to execute in the terminal?
>> 
>> see my mail from 13:25 with more info.
>> 
>>> Kind regards,
>>> Panos
>> 
>> Best
>> 
>> Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From merakosp at gmail.com  Mon Aug 26 08:19:02 2024
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 15:19:02 +0300
Subject: Error creating Android Standalone
In-Reply-To: <E796D252-5E5E-4AE1-B7BD-29916781AFE5@major-k.de>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <7FDF98F6-1158-48C8-8F19-360A52E43EFD@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq9UiszJiLndFyMRf7XC1c7HmhxajaL4ayB54GQLm7Z9_A@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1FB5230-F5FF-45D6-9AC0-B2292E109402@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_isvRSh6AKoYP0tHmLnZCP6phZYYxtXaw=Oy219HQF0w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E796D252-5E5E-4AE1-B7BD-29916781AFE5@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq8rRg-DvnJ5MPSkyVr0CyTEMhm4EQn8dyOs5NOoQU+3mg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Klaus,

Ok I see.

Yes, so it seems you need to install a newer JDK version to work with the
terminal. So you need to do some JDK "dance":


- Download and install a newer (version >= 20.x) version of the Java JDK
- Verify it is installed correctly, by checking in
/Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/ - you should see a subfolder named e.g.
"jdk-20.0.1.jdk" there.

- In the Terminal, navigate (using cd) to the folder containing your
resources (pepk.jar, foo.keystore)
- Try the terminal command now:

java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=foo --alias=foo --output=output.zip
--rsa-aes-encryption
--encryption-key-path=/path/to/your/encryption_public_key.pem

If the command is successful, you should see a file "output.zip" in that
folder, which you have to upload to the Play Store

Note: To verify that the Terminal will indeed use the new jdk version
rather than the "old" v8 one, you can do in the Terminal:

java -version

If this still returns v8, thn try to temporarily remove v8 from
/Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/ and put it back once the terminal
command succeeds.

Hope this helps.

Kind regards,
Panos
--

From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Aug 26 08:32:48 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 14:32:48 +0200
Subject: Error creating Android Standalone
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq8rRg-DvnJ5MPSkyVr0CyTEMhm4EQn8dyOs5NOoQU+3mg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <7FDF98F6-1158-48C8-8F19-360A52E43EFD@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq9UiszJiLndFyMRf7XC1c7HmhxajaL4ayB54GQLm7Z9_A@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1FB5230-F5FF-45D6-9AC0-B2292E109402@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_isvRSh6AKoYP0tHmLnZCP6phZYYxtXaw=Oy219HQF0w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E796D252-5E5E-4AE1-B7BD-29916781AFE5@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq8rRg-DvnJ5MPSkyVr0CyTEMhm4EQn8dyOs5NOoQU+3mg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DC0EE835-E7E2-4761-ABF2-7C3980062408@major-k.de>

Hi Panos,

thank you, will try this!

java -version gives me:
---------------------
java version "1.8.0_311"
Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 1.8.0_311-b11)
Java HotSpot(TM) 64-Bit Server VM (build 25.311-b11, mixed mode)

And i don't even have a folder Java in /Library/

Question:
--------------------
> java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=foo --alias=foo --output=output.zip
> --rsa-aes-encryption
> --encryption-key-path=/path/to/your/encryption_public_key.pem
---------------------
Is this:

> ...
> --encryption-key-path=/path/to/your/encryption_public_key.pem

The PEM file I already created?

Why is this all so damn difficult and complicated? :-/

> Am 26.08.2024 um 14:19 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hello Klaus,
> 
> Ok I see.
> 
> Yes, so it seems you need to install a newer JDK version to work with the
> terminal. So you need to do some JDK "dance":
> 
> 
> - Download and install a newer (version >= 20.x) version of the Java JDK
> - Verify it is installed correctly, by checking in
> /Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/ - you should see a subfolder named e.g.
> "jdk-20.0.1.jdk" there.
> 
> - In the Terminal, navigate (using cd) to the folder containing your
> resources (pepk.jar, foo.keystore)
> - Try the terminal command now:
> 
> java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=foo --alias=foo --output=output.zip
> --rsa-aes-encryption
> --encryption-key-path=/path/to/your/encryption_public_key.pem
> 
> If the command is successful, you should see a file "output.zip" in that
> folder, which you have to upload to the Play Store
> 
> Note: To verify that the Terminal will indeed use the new jdk version
> rather than the "old" v8 one, you can do in the Terminal:
> 
> java -version
> 
> If this still returns v8, thn try to temporarily remove v8 from
> /Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/ and put it back once the terminal
> command succeeds.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> Kind regards,
> Panos

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From merakosp at gmail.com  Mon Aug 26 08:49:16 2024
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 15:49:16 +0300
Subject: Error creating Android Standalone
In-Reply-To: <DC0EE835-E7E2-4761-ABF2-7C3980062408@major-k.de>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <7FDF98F6-1158-48C8-8F19-360A52E43EFD@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq9UiszJiLndFyMRf7XC1c7HmhxajaL4ayB54GQLm7Z9_A@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1FB5230-F5FF-45D6-9AC0-B2292E109402@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_isvRSh6AKoYP0tHmLnZCP6phZYYxtXaw=Oy219HQF0w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E796D252-5E5E-4AE1-B7BD-29916781AFE5@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq8rRg-DvnJ5MPSkyVr0CyTEMhm4EQn8dyOs5NOoQU+3mg@mail.gmail.com>
 <DC0EE835-E7E2-4761-ABF2-7C3980062408@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq_d_HEScYH76p0RMC__V8RCqEqfbmhsFTPPkCXG8LL+EA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Klaus,




*> Is this:> ...>
--encryption-key-path=/path/to/your/encryption_public_key.pem> The PEM file
I already created?*

Yes this is it.

*> And i don't even have a folder Java in /Library/*

This is not possible! Note that I am referring to the system Library folder
(i.e. /Library/) - not the user's Library folder (i.e. not
/Users/<username>/Library/)

Since java -version returns java version "1.8.0_311" it means you have a
folder named "jdk1.8.0_311.jdk" in /Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/

Kind regards,
Panos
--

On Mon, 26 Aug 2024 at 15:33, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Panos,
>
> thank you, will try this!
>
> java -version gives me:
> ---------------------
> java version "1.8.0_311"
> Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 1.8.0_311-b11)
> Java HotSpot(TM) 64-Bit Server VM (build 25.311-b11, mixed mode)
>
> And i don't even have a folder Java in /Library/
>
> Question:
> --------------------
> > java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=foo --alias=foo --output=output.zip
> > --rsa-aes-encryption
> > --encryption-key-path=/path/to/your/encryption_public_key.pem
> ---------------------
> Is this:
>
> > ...
> > --encryption-key-path=/path/to/your/encryption_public_key.pem
>
> The PEM file I already created?
>
> Why is this all so damn difficult and complicated? :-/
>
> > Am 26.08.2024 um 14:19 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> >
> > Hello Klaus,
> >
> > Ok I see.
> >
> > Yes, so it seems you need to install a newer JDK version to work with the
> > terminal. So you need to do some JDK "dance":
> >
> >
> > - Download and install a newer (version >= 20.x) version of the Java JDK
> > - Verify it is installed correctly, by checking in
> > /Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/ - you should see a subfolder named
> e.g.
> > "jdk-20.0.1.jdk" there.
> >
> > - In the Terminal, navigate (using cd) to the folder containing your
> > resources (pepk.jar, foo.keystore)
> > - Try the terminal command now:
> >
> > java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=foo --alias=foo --output=output.zip
> > --rsa-aes-encryption
> > --encryption-key-path=/path/to/your/encryption_public_key.pem
> >
> > If the command is successful, you should see a file "output.zip" in that
> > folder, which you have to upload to the Play Store
> >
> > Note: To verify that the Terminal will indeed use the new jdk version
> > rather than the "old" v8 one, you can do in the Terminal:
> >
> > java -version
> >
> > If this still returns v8, thn try to temporarily remove v8 from
> > /Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/ and put it back once the terminal
> > command succeeds.
> >
> > Hope this helps.
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > Panos
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
>
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Aug 26 08:56:33 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 14:56:33 +0200
Subject: Error creating Android Standalone
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq_d_HEScYH76p0RMC__V8RCqEqfbmhsFTPPkCXG8LL+EA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <7FDF98F6-1158-48C8-8F19-360A52E43EFD@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq9UiszJiLndFyMRf7XC1c7HmhxajaL4ayB54GQLm7Z9_A@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1FB5230-F5FF-45D6-9AC0-B2292E109402@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_isvRSh6AKoYP0tHmLnZCP6phZYYxtXaw=Oy219HQF0w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E796D252-5E5E-4AE1-B7BD-29916781AFE5@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq8rRg-DvnJ5MPSkyVr0CyTEMhm4EQn8dyOs5NOoQU+3mg@mail.gmail.com>
 <DC0EE835-E7E2-4761-ABF2-7C3980062408@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_d_HEScYH76p0RMC__V8RCqEqfbmhsFTPPkCXG8LL+EA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <748291BF-A6BC-45A6-8177-FB884885AB68@major-k.de>

Hi Panos,

> Am 26.08.2024 um 14:49 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hello Klaus,
> 
> *> Is this:> ...>
> --encryption-key-path=/path/to/your/encryption_public_key.pem> The PEM file
> I already created?*
> 
> Yes this is it.

aha, I guessed, thank you!

Google could be a TAD more specific in my opinion.
Not everyone is a knowing JAVA developer.

> *> And i don't even have a folder Java in /Library/*
> 
> This is not possible! Note that I am referring to the system Library folder
> (i.e. /Library/) - not the user's Library folder (i.e. not
> /Users/<username>/Library/)

Oops, yes sorry.

> Since java -version returns java version "1.8.0_311" it means you have a
> folder named "jdk1.8.0_311.jdk" in /Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/

Yep, I have this folder in JavaVirtualMachines: jdk1.8.0_281.jdk

> Kind regards,
> Panos
> --

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Aug 26 10:43:27 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 16:43:27 +0200
Subject: Error creating Android Standalone
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5371AAFB-9C33-4443-8EB2-715EA981BD93@major-k.de>

Hi all,

> Am 26.08.2024 um 12:43 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hello Klaus,
> 
> What is your installed version of the *build-tools*? LiveCode expects
> *only* version 31.0.0.
> 
> You can find the installed version here - you should have a subfolder named
> "31.0.0" here:
> /Users/<username>/Library/Android/sdk/build-tools/
> If you have any newer version installed too, you have to remove it.

for your interest:
I found that "Android Studio" automatically installs "buid tools 34" without asking
when I create a new adaptive icon there, did not find a setting to stop this.

So I always need to remove this again before creating a runtime in LC...

> Kind regards,
> Panos
> --

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Mon Aug 26 11:25:03 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 15:25:03 +0000
Subject: Error creating Android Standalone
In-Reply-To: <DC0EE835-E7E2-4761-ABF2-7C3980062408@major-k.de>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <7FDF98F6-1158-48C8-8F19-360A52E43EFD@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq9UiszJiLndFyMRf7XC1c7HmhxajaL4ayB54GQLm7Z9_A@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1FB5230-F5FF-45D6-9AC0-B2292E109402@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_isvRSh6AKoYP0tHmLnZCP6phZYYxtXaw=Oy219HQF0w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E796D252-5E5E-4AE1-B7BD-29916781AFE5@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq8rRg-DvnJ5MPSkyVr0CyTEMhm4EQn8dyOs5NOoQU+3mg@mail.gmail.com>
 <DC0EE835-E7E2-4761-ABF2-7C3980062408@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <F0EC5BE0-7A5F-492B-BA20-833F46626988@iotecdigital.com>

Every entity is trying to solve their own subset of problems. The real question is, why has the industry seemingly abandoned the concept of, “backwards compatible”? It seems nowadays that we are all expected; no required to upgrade to the latest greatest, irrespective of the catch 22’s like yours that will inevitably result.

That being said, I wonder that there is no a command to tell terminal or Livecode which version of the engine you want to work with.

Bob S


On Aug 26, 2024, at 5:32 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

Why is this all so damn difficult and complicated? :-/



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Mon Aug 26 11:29:09 2024
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 17:29:09 +0200
Subject: Error creating Android Standalone
In-Reply-To: <F0EC5BE0-7A5F-492B-BA20-833F46626988@iotecdigital.com>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <7FDF98F6-1158-48C8-8F19-360A52E43EFD@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq9UiszJiLndFyMRf7XC1c7HmhxajaL4ayB54GQLm7Z9_A@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1FB5230-F5FF-45D6-9AC0-B2292E109402@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_isvRSh6AKoYP0tHmLnZCP6phZYYxtXaw=Oy219HQF0w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E796D252-5E5E-4AE1-B7BD-29916781AFE5@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq8rRg-DvnJ5MPSkyVr0CyTEMhm4EQn8dyOs5NOoQU+3mg@mail.gmail.com>
 <DC0EE835-E7E2-4761-ABF2-7C3980062408@major-k.de>
 <F0EC5BE0-7A5F-492B-BA20-833F46626988@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <C5F2633B-7691-4C34-A8B5-DD4BA2C7F2E8@m-r-d.de>

+1

> Am 26.08.2024 um 17:25 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Every entity is trying to solve their own subset of problems. The real question is, why has the industry seemingly abandoned the concept of, “backwards compatible”? It seems nowadays that we are all expected; no required to upgrade to the latest greatest, irrespective of the catch 22’s like yours that will inevitably result.
> 
> That being said, I wonder that there is no a command to tell terminal or Livecode which version of the engine you want to work with.
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
> On Aug 26, 2024, at 5:32 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Why is this all so damn difficult and complicated? :-/
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From merakosp at gmail.com  Mon Aug 26 12:47:28 2024
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 19:47:28 +0300
Subject: Error creating Android Standalone
In-Reply-To: <C5F2633B-7691-4C34-A8B5-DD4BA2C7F2E8@m-r-d.de>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <7FDF98F6-1158-48C8-8F19-360A52E43EFD@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq9UiszJiLndFyMRf7XC1c7HmhxajaL4ayB54GQLm7Z9_A@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1FB5230-F5FF-45D6-9AC0-B2292E109402@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_isvRSh6AKoYP0tHmLnZCP6phZYYxtXaw=Oy219HQF0w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E796D252-5E5E-4AE1-B7BD-29916781AFE5@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq8rRg-DvnJ5MPSkyVr0CyTEMhm4EQn8dyOs5NOoQU+3mg@mail.gmail.com>
 <DC0EE835-E7E2-4761-ABF2-7C3980062408@major-k.de>
 <F0EC5BE0-7A5F-492B-BA20-833F46626988@iotecdigital.com>
 <C5F2633B-7691-4C34-A8B5-DD4BA2C7F2E8@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq9UggUdKBf4Pk-_zMwjwb+VnDAftCRFsw9EFeDyVGeFWg@mail.gmail.com>

In the IDE, in the mobile prefs, there is an invisible button (I think it
is called "chooseJDK" or such - I am not in the office now) that allows you
to manually choose the desired JDK path. That way we could have both JDK v8
(required by LC) and newer ones installed.

I am not sure why this button is hidden though - but you could make it
visible by doing in the msg box:

set the visible of button "chooseJDK" of card "mobile support" of stack
"revPreferencesGUI" to true

Kind regards,
Panos
--

On Mon, 26 Aug 2024 at 18:30, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> +1
>
> > Am 26.08.2024 um 17:25 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> >
> > Every entity is trying to solve their own subset of problems. The real
> question is, why has the industry seemingly abandoned the concept of,
> “backwards compatible”? It seems nowadays that we are all expected; no
> required to upgrade to the latest greatest, irrespective of the catch 22’s
> like yours that will inevitably result.
> >
> > That being said, I wonder that there is no a command to tell terminal or
> Livecode which version of the engine you want to work with.
> >
> > Bob S
> >
> >
> > On Aug 26, 2024, at 5:32 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Why is this all so damn difficult and complicated? :-/
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Mon Aug 26 15:34:47 2024
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 21:34:47 +0200
Subject: Error creating Android Standalone
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq9UggUdKBf4Pk-_zMwjwb+VnDAftCRFsw9EFeDyVGeFWg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <7FDF98F6-1158-48C8-8F19-360A52E43EFD@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq9UiszJiLndFyMRf7XC1c7HmhxajaL4ayB54GQLm7Z9_A@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1FB5230-F5FF-45D6-9AC0-B2292E109402@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_isvRSh6AKoYP0tHmLnZCP6phZYYxtXaw=Oy219HQF0w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E796D252-5E5E-4AE1-B7BD-29916781AFE5@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq8rRg-DvnJ5MPSkyVr0CyTEMhm4EQn8dyOs5NOoQU+3mg@mail.gmail.com>
 <DC0EE835-E7E2-4761-ABF2-7C3980062408@major-k.de>
 <F0EC5BE0-7A5F-492B-BA20-833F46626988@iotecdigital.com>
 <C5F2633B-7691-4C34-A8B5-DD4BA2C7F2E8@m-r-d.de>
 <CA+JfEq9UggUdKBf4Pk-_zMwjwb+VnDAftCRFsw9EFeDyVGeFWg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ACA22D0F-31D4-4D9D-88A9-31BD140EEA21@m-r-d.de>

Thanks Panos!

Regards,
Matthias


> Am 26.08.2024 um 18:47 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> In the IDE, in the mobile prefs, there is an invisible button (I think it
> is called "chooseJDK" or such - I am not in the office now) that allows you
> to manually choose the desired JDK path. That way we could have both JDK v8
> (required by LC) and newer ones installed.
> 
> I am not sure why this button is hidden though - but you could make it
> visible by doing in the msg box:
> 
> set the visible of button "chooseJDK" of card "mobile support" of stack
> "revPreferencesGUI" to true
> 
> Kind regards,
> Panos
> --
> 
> On Mon, 26 Aug 2024 at 18:30, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> +1
>> 
>>> Am 26.08.2024 um 17:25 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> Every entity is trying to solve their own subset of problems. The real
>> question is, why has the industry seemingly abandoned the concept of,
>> “backwards compatible”? It seems nowadays that we are all expected; no
>> required to upgrade to the latest greatest, irrespective of the catch 22’s
>> like yours that will inevitably result.
>>> 
>>> That being said, I wonder that there is no a command to tell terminal or
>> Livecode which version of the engine you want to work with.
>>> 
>>> Bob S
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Aug 26, 2024, at 5:32 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Why is this all so damn difficult and complicated? :-/
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From klaus at major-k.de  Tue Aug 27 08:06:22 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2024 14:06:22 +0200
Subject: Still problems with creating the neccessary file for keystore reset
 (Lengthy mail)
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F94EB80A-150C-4F77-83DB-12816D167BCF@major-k.de>

Hi all,

"The torture never stops" (F.Z.)

We are still struggling with creating the correct file for Google to reset the upload key,
and I get the feeling that Google is incompatible with Google!?

The very long story:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
LC 10rc1, macOS 14.6.1 on a M2 Mac Mini

Android Studio Iguana | 2023.2.1 Patch 1
Build #AI-232.10300.40.2321.11567975, built on March 13, 2024
Runtime version: 17.0.9+0-17.0.9b1087.7-11185874 aarch64
VM: OpenJDK 64-Bit Server VM by JetBrains s.r.o.
macOS 14.6.1
GC: G1 Young Generation, G1 Old Generation
Memory: 2048M
Cores: 8
Metal Rendering is ON
Registry:
    ide.experimental.ui=true

Google support reponded to my question (Can I rest the upload keystore?) with the instructions quoted below.

I created a new keystore file with "Android Studio":

> 1.    • Follow the instructions in the Android Studio Help Center to generate a new key.
> It must be different from any previous keys, be a 2048-bit RSA key, and have 25-year validity.
> Alternatively, you can use the following command line to generate a new key:
>        • keytool -genkeypair -alias upload -keyalg RSA -keysize 2048 -validity 9125 -keystore keystore.jks

Worked out fine and Matthias Rebbe and I could use it with LC to sign my Android app without any problems!
-----------------------------------------
Keystore file -> android_upload.keystore
Password: XXX1

Key:
Alias: sehenkey
Password: XXX2
-----------------------------------------

> 2.    • Export the certificate for that key to PEM format:
>        • keytool -export -rfc -alias upload -file upload_certificate.pem -keystore keystore.jks

Created the PEM file successfully -> upload_certificate.pem

> 3.    • Once you have generated a PEM file please follow the steps below:
>        • Go to Setup > App integrity > App Signing.
>        • Request Upload key reset.
>        • Give a reason why you’re requesting a key reset.
>        • Enter PEM file.
>        • Click Request.

Google does not accept the above mentioned PEM file (BIG fun, thank you support) and shows a JAVA terminal
command that would output a ZIPped PEM file to upload to Google. 

See a screenshot here: <https://major-k.de/java_terminal.png>
(Strangely Matthias Rebbe saw a completely differenet command in HIS account on the app signing page!?)

And also let me download a JAR file "pepk.jar" which obviously does the actual work.


Matthias was so kind to check the terminal stuff for me with a higher JAVA version (jdk 20), so I could avoid the SDK "dance" :-)
The script with all placeholder replaced with my data, maybe this is not completely correct?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey --output=output.zip signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias --rsa-aes -encryption --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But here is what he got:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Error: Unable to parse the input: [--keystore=android_upload.keystore, --alias=sehenkey, --output=output.zip, signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore, --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias, --rsa-aes, -encryption, --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem]
java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Invalid argument: signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore
at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.Utils.processArgs(Utils.java:32)
at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.main(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:110)
USAGE:
       java -jar pepk.jar
         --keystore <release_keystore>
         --alias <key_alias>
         --output=<output_file>
         (--rsa-aes-encryption --encryption-key-path=</path/to/encryption_public_key.pem> | --encryptionkey=<encryption_key_hex>)
         [--signing-keystore <keystore> [--signing-key-alias=<alias>]]
         [--include-cert]

pepk (Play Encrypt Private Key) is a tool for exporting private keys from a
Java Keystore and encrypting them for transfer to Google Play as part of
enrolling in App Signing by Google Play.


        REQUIRED FLAGS

--keystore            Path to the keystore containing the private key to export.

--alias               Alias of the private key in the keystore.

--output              File in which to output the encrypted private key.

        OPTIONAL FLAGS

--keystore-pass       Password for the keystore. If not set, will be prompted on
                      the command line.

--key-pass            Password for the key inside the keystore. If not set, the
                      same password as the keystore will be used, or if none was
                      set, it will be prompted on the command line.

--signing-keystore    Path to the keystore containing the private key that will
                      be used for signing the exported encrypted private key.

--signing-key-alias   Alias of the private key used for signing in the
                      signing Keystore. Must be specified if --signing-keystore
                      flag is set.

--rsa-aes-encryption  Use RSA AES Key Wrap encryption for encrypting the
                      private key.

--encryption-key-path Path to the PEM-encoded public key to be used for
                      encrypting the private key. Must be specified if
                      --rsa-aes-encryption is set.

--encryptionkey       Public key to encrypt the private key with. This will be
                      the hex encoded bytes of the public key. The public key
                      is a 4-byte identity followed by a 64-byte P256 point.
                      Must be specified if --rsa-aes-encryption is not set.

--include-cert        Include the public certificate to be exported along with
                      the encrypted private key.

        OTHER OPTIONS

--help                Show this usage page and exit.

--license             Show the license for the tool and exit.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So we got stuck!? 
Any insight highly appreciated! 
Also off-list if neccessary.

Thanks a lot in advance!


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From mark at livecode.com  Tue Aug 27 08:11:53 2024
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2024 13:11:53 +0100
Subject: Still problems with creating the neccessary file for keystore
 reset (Lengthy mail)
In-Reply-To: <F94EB80A-150C-4F77-83DB-12816D167BCF@major-k.de>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <F94EB80A-150C-4F77-83DB-12816D167BCF@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <5e55c3d97ffc70543f380c54a88ae648@livecode.com>

On 2024-08-27 13:06, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey 
> --output=output.zip signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore 
> --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias --rsa-aes -encryption 
> --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem

There's a missing `--` in front of `signing-keystore` - that's causing 
the args error:

> Error: Unable to parse the input: [--keystore=android_upload.keystore, 
> --alias=sehenkey, --output=output.zip, 
> signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore, 
> --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias, --rsa-aes, -encryption, 
> --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem]
> java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Invalid argument: 
> signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things


From klaus at major-k.de  Tue Aug 27 15:19:10 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2024 21:19:10 +0200
Subject: Still problems with creating the neccessary file for keystore
 reset (Lengthy mail)
In-Reply-To: <5e55c3d97ffc70543f380c54a88ae648@livecode.com>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <F94EB80A-150C-4F77-83DB-12816D167BCF@major-k.de>
 <5e55c3d97ffc70543f380c54a88ae648@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <C837AA3F-D425-40AF-8714-32368AAF71EC@major-k.de>

Hi Mark,

> Am 27.08.2024 um 14:11 schrieb Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> On 2024-08-27 13:06, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey --output=output.zip signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias --rsa-aes -encryption --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
> There's a missing `--` in front of `signing-keystore` - that's causing the args error:
>> Error: Unable to parse the input: [--keystore=android_upload.keystore, --alias=sehenkey, --output=output.zip, signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore, --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias, --rsa-aes, -encryption, --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem]
>> java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Invalid argument: signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore
> 
> Warmest Regards,
> 
> Mark.

thank you, but that was not it.

Here is what Matthias got with the two --
------------------------------------------------------------
 java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey --output=output.zip --signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias --rsa-aes-encryption --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
Enter password for store 'android_upload.keystore':
Enter password for key 'sehenkey':
Error: Unable to export or encrypt the private key
java.security.spec.InvalidKeySpecException: java.security.InvalidKeyException: Unable to decode key
at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAKeyFactory.engineGeneratePublic(RSAKeyFactory.java:241)
at java.base/java.security.KeyFactory.generatePublic(KeyFactory.java:351)
at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.readPublicKey(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:309)
at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.encryptPrivateKeyWithCkmRsaAesKeyWrapEncryption(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:283)
at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.run(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:213)
at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.main(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:165)
Caused by: java.security.InvalidKeyException: Unable to decode key
at java.base/sun.security.x509.X509Key.decode(X509Key.java:368)
at java.base/sun.security.x509.X509Key.decode(X509Key.java:374)
at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAPublicKeyImpl.<init>(RSAPublicKeyImpl.java:148)
at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAPublicKeyImpl.newKey(RSAPublicKeyImpl.java:80)
at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAKeyFactory.generatePublic(RSAKeyFactory.java:324)
at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAKeyFactory.engineGeneratePublic(RSAKeyFactory.java:237)
... 5 more
Caused by: java.io.IOException: DerValue.getOID, not an OID 2
at java.base/sun.security.util.DerValue.getOID(DerValue.java:552)
at java.base/sun.security.util.DerInputStream.getOID(DerInputStream.java:165)
at java.base/sun.security.x509.AlgorithmId.parse(AlgorithmId.java:398)
at java.base/sun.security.x509.X509Key.decode(X509Key.java:361)
... 10 more
------------------------------------------------------------
:-(

Any ideas?


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From klaus at major-k.de  Tue Aug 27 15:52:14 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2024 21:52:14 +0200
Subject: Still problems with creating the neccessary file for keystore
 reset (Lengthy mail)
In-Reply-To: <C837AA3F-D425-40AF-8714-32368AAF71EC@major-k.de>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <F94EB80A-150C-4F77-83DB-12816D167BCF@major-k.de>
 <5e55c3d97ffc70543f380c54a88ae648@livecode.com>
 <C837AA3F-D425-40AF-8714-32368AAF71EC@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <CED371B6-D59B-4E39-8B73-AE1D05FB2E5B@major-k.de>

Correction in the command:
--signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias
needs to be :
--signing-key-alias=sehenkey

But same errors. :-/

> Am 27.08.2024 um 21:19 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi Mark,
> 
>> Am 27.08.2024 um 14:11 schrieb Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> On 2024-08-27 13:06, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey --output=output.zip signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias --rsa-aes -encryption --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
>> There's a missing `--` in front of `signing-keystore` - that's causing the args error:
>>> Error: Unable to parse the input: [--keystore=android_upload.keystore, --alias=sehenkey, --output=output.zip, signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore, --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias, --rsa-aes, -encryption, --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem]
>>> java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Invalid argument: signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore
>> 
>> Warmest Regards,
>> 
>> Mark.
> 
> thank you, but that was not it.
> 
> Here is what Matthias got with the two --
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey --output=output.zip --signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias --rsa-aes-encryption --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey --output=output.zip --signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore --signing-key-alias=sehenkey --rsa-aes-encryption --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
> Enter password for store 'android_upload.keystore':
> Enter password for key 'sehenkey':
> Error: Unable to export or encrypt the private key
> java.security.spec.InvalidKeySpecException: java.security.InvalidKeyException: Unable to decode key
> at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAKeyFactory.engineGeneratePublic(RSAKeyFactory.java:241)
> at java.base/java.security.KeyFactory.generatePublic(KeyFactory.java:351)
> at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.readPublicKey(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:309)
> at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.encryptPrivateKeyWithCkmRsaAesKeyWrapEncryption(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:283)
> at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.run(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:213)
> at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.main(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:165)
> Caused by: java.security.InvalidKeyException: Unable to decode key
> at java.base/sun.security.x509.X509Key.decode(X509Key.java:368)
> at java.base/sun.security.x509.X509Key.decode(X509Key.java:374)
> at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAPublicKeyImpl.<init>(RSAPublicKeyImpl.java:148)
> at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAPublicKeyImpl.newKey(RSAPublicKeyImpl.java:80)
> at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAKeyFactory.generatePublic(RSAKeyFactory.java:324)
> at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAKeyFactory.engineGeneratePublic(RSAKeyFactory.java:237)
> ... 5 more
> Caused by: java.io.IOException: DerValue.getOID, not an OID 2
> at java.base/sun.security.util.DerValue.getOID(DerValue.java:552)
> at java.base/sun.security.util.DerInputStream.getOID(DerInputStream.java:165)
> at java.base/sun.security.x509.AlgorithmId.parse(AlgorithmId.java:398)
> at java.base/sun.security.x509.X509Key.decode(X509Key.java:361)
> ... 10 more
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> :-(
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From klaus at major-k.de  Wed Aug 28 02:36:44 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2024 08:36:44 +0200
Subject: Still problems with creating the neccessary file for keystore
 reset (Lengthy mail)
In-Reply-To: <CED371B6-D59B-4E39-8B73-AE1D05FB2E5B@major-k.de>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <F94EB80A-150C-4F77-83DB-12816D167BCF@major-k.de>
 <5e55c3d97ffc70543f380c54a88ae648@livecode.com>
 <C837AA3F-D425-40AF-8714-32368AAF71EC@major-k.de>
 <CED371B6-D59B-4E39-8B73-AE1D05FB2E5B@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <CB04C1D0-558D-4A36-98FA-9795D299301B@major-k.de>

Hi friends,

I really need your help, please, deadline is saturday! :-/

If someone who knows (at least a bit of) JAVA, could try this at home
see all my steps below, please send me a mail and I will send you the
"pepk.jar" file. Not sure if I can post it openly on my server.

Many, many thanks in advance!


Desparately

Klaus

> Am 27.08.2024 um 21:52 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Correction in the command:
> --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias
> needs to be :
> --signing-key-alias=sehenkey
> 
> But same errors. :-/
> 
>> Am 27.08.2024 um 21:19 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Hi Mark,
>> 
>>> Am 27.08.2024 um 14:11 schrieb Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> On 2024-08-27 13:06, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey --output=output.zip signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias --rsa-aes -encryption --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
>>> There's a missing `--` in front of `signing-keystore` - that's causing the args error:
>>>> Error: Unable to parse the input: [--keystore=android_upload.keystore, --alias=sehenkey, --output=output.zip, signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore, --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias, --rsa-aes, -encryption, --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem]
>>>> java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Invalid argument: signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore
>>> 
>>> Warmest Regards,
>>> 
>>> Mark.
>> 
>> thank you, but that was not it.
>> 
>> Here is what Matthias got with the two --
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey --output=output.zip --signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias --rsa-aes-encryption --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
> java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey --output=output.zip --signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore --signing-key-alias=sehenkey --rsa-aes-encryption --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
>> Enter password for store 'android_upload.keystore':
>> Enter password for key 'sehenkey':
>> Error: Unable to export or encrypt the private key
>> java.security.spec.InvalidKeySpecException: java.security.InvalidKeyException: Unable to decode key
>> at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAKeyFactory.engineGeneratePublic(RSAKeyFactory.java:241)
>> at java.base/java.security.KeyFactory.generatePublic(KeyFactory.java:351)
>> at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.readPublicKey(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:309)
>> at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.encryptPrivateKeyWithCkmRsaAesKeyWrapEncryption(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:283)
>> at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.run(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:213)
>> at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.main(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:165)
>> Caused by: java.security.InvalidKeyException: Unable to decode key
>> at java.base/sun.security.x509.X509Key.decode(X509Key.java:368)
>> at java.base/sun.security.x509.X509Key.decode(X509Key.java:374)
>> at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAPublicKeyImpl.<init>(RSAPublicKeyImpl.java:148)
>> at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAPublicKeyImpl.newKey(RSAPublicKeyImpl.java:80)
>> at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAKeyFactory.generatePublic(RSAKeyFactory.java:324)
>> at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAKeyFactory.engineGeneratePublic(RSAKeyFactory.java:237)
>> ... 5 more
>> Caused by: java.io.IOException: DerValue.getOID, not an OID 2
>> at java.base/sun.security.util.DerValue.getOID(DerValue.java:552)
>> at java.base/sun.security.util.DerInputStream.getOID(DerInputStream.java:165)
>> at java.base/sun.security.x509.AlgorithmId.parse(AlgorithmId.java:398)
>> at java.base/sun.security.x509.X509Key.decode(X509Key.java:361)
>> ... 10 more
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> :-(
>> 
>> Any ideas?
>> 
>> 
>> Best
>> 
>> Klaus
>> --
>> Klaus Major
>> https://www.major-k.de
>> https://www.major-k.de/bass
>> klaus at major-k.de
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From merakosp at gmail.com  Wed Aug 28 03:02:28 2024
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2024 10:02:28 +0300
Subject: Still problems with creating the neccessary file for keystore
 reset (Lengthy mail)
In-Reply-To: <CB04C1D0-558D-4A36-98FA-9795D299301B@major-k.de>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <F94EB80A-150C-4F77-83DB-12816D167BCF@major-k.de>
 <5e55c3d97ffc70543f380c54a88ae648@livecode.com>
 <C837AA3F-D425-40AF-8714-32368AAF71EC@major-k.de>
 <CED371B6-D59B-4E39-8B73-AE1D05FB2E5B@major-k.de>
 <CB04C1D0-558D-4A36-98FA-9795D299301B@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq-8+-H8ucfzpHxNUmb9zcarjVwRJvhUXPGo+xMckJg5kA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Klaus,

I vaguelly remember I had a similar problem in the past. After searching in
stackoverflow, it was suggested to use the OpenJDK version of Java, rather
than the Oracle's one.

I had used version 20.0.1. I still have the .tar file I downloaded back
then, it is named "openjdk-20.0.1_macos-x64_bin.tar" - and I think it is
this one:

https://download.java.net/java/GA/jdk20.0.1/b4887098932d415489976708ad6d1a4b/9/GPL/openjdk-20.0.1_macos-x64_bin.tar.gz

So it might be worth giving it a try.

Kind regards,
Panos
--

On Wed, 28 Aug 2024 at 09:38, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi friends,
>
> I really need your help, please, deadline is saturday! :-/
>
> If someone who knows (at least a bit of) JAVA, could try this at home
> see all my steps below, please send me a mail and I will send you the
> "pepk.jar" file. Not sure if I can post it openly on my server.
>
> Many, many thanks in advance!
>
>
> Desparately
>
> Klaus
>
> > Am 27.08.2024 um 21:52 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> >
> > Correction in the command:
> > --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias
> > needs to be :
> > --signing-key-alias=sehenkey
> >
> > But same errors. :-/
> >
> >> Am 27.08.2024 um 21:19 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> >>
> >> Hi Mark,
> >>
> >>> Am 27.08.2024 um 14:11 schrieb Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> >>>
> >>> On 2024-08-27 13:06, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
> >>>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore
> --alias=sehenkey --output=output.zip
> signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore
> --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias --rsa-aes -encryption
> --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
> >>> There's a missing `--` in front of `signing-keystore` - that's causing
> the args error:
> >>>> Error: Unable to parse the input:
> [--keystore=android_upload.keystore, --alias=sehenkey, --output=output.zip,
> signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore,
> --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias, --rsa-aes, -encryption,
> --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem]
> >>>> java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Invalid argument:
> signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore
> >>>
> >>> Warmest Regards,
> >>>
> >>> Mark.
> >>
> >> thank you, but that was not it.
> >>
> >> Here is what Matthias got with the two --
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey
> --output=output.zip --signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore
> --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias --rsa-aes-encryption
> --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
> > java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey
> --output=output.zip --signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore
> --signing-key-alias=sehenkey --rsa-aes-encryption
> --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
> >> Enter password for store 'android_upload.keystore':
> >> Enter password for key 'sehenkey':
> >> Error: Unable to export or encrypt the private key
> >> java.security.spec.InvalidKeySpecException:
> java.security.InvalidKeyException: Unable to decode key
> >> at
> java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAKeyFactory.engineGeneratePublic(RSAKeyFactory.java:241)
> >> at
> java.base/java.security.KeyFactory.generatePublic(KeyFactory.java:351)
> >> at
> com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.readPublicKey(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:309)
> >> at
> com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.encryptPrivateKeyWithCkmRsaAesKeyWrapEncryption(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:283)
> >> at
> com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.run(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:213)
> >> at
> com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.main(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:165)
> >> Caused by: java.security.InvalidKeyException: Unable to decode key
> >> at java.base/sun.security.x509.X509Key.decode(X509Key.java:368)
> >> at java.base/sun.security.x509.X509Key.decode(X509Key.java:374)
> >> at
> java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAPublicKeyImpl.<init>(RSAPublicKeyImpl.java:148)
> >> at
> java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAPublicKeyImpl.newKey(RSAPublicKeyImpl.java:80)
> >> at
> java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAKeyFactory.generatePublic(RSAKeyFactory.java:324)
> >> at
> java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAKeyFactory.engineGeneratePublic(RSAKeyFactory.java:237)
> >> ... 5 more
> >> Caused by: java.io.IOException: DerValue.getOID, not an OID 2
> >> at java.base/sun.security.util.DerValue.getOID(DerValue.java:552)
> >> at
> java.base/sun.security.util.DerInputStream.getOID(DerInputStream.java:165)
> >> at java.base/sun.security.x509.AlgorithmId.parse(AlgorithmId.java:398)
> >> at java.base/sun.security.x509.X509Key.decode(X509Key.java:361)
> >> ... 10 more
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> :-(
> >>
> >> Any ideas?
> >>
> >>
> >> Best
> >>
> >> Klaus
> >> --
> >> Klaus Major
> >> https://www.major-k.de
> >> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> >> klaus at major-k.de
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> > --
> > Klaus Major
> > https://www.major-k.de
> > https://www.major-k.de/bass
> > klaus at major-k.de
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From merakosp at gmail.com  Wed Aug 28 03:17:19 2024
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2024 10:17:19 +0300
Subject: Still problems with creating the neccessary file for keystore
 reset (Lengthy mail)
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq-8+-H8ucfzpHxNUmb9zcarjVwRJvhUXPGo+xMckJg5kA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <F94EB80A-150C-4F77-83DB-12816D167BCF@major-k.de>
 <5e55c3d97ffc70543f380c54a88ae648@livecode.com>
 <C837AA3F-D425-40AF-8714-32368AAF71EC@major-k.de>
 <CED371B6-D59B-4E39-8B73-AE1D05FB2E5B@major-k.de>
 <CB04C1D0-558D-4A36-98FA-9795D299301B@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq-8+-H8ucfzpHxNUmb9zcarjVwRJvhUXPGo+xMckJg5kA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq_=KRLyCEPt5cy9mAwurEcD5wUxjPrXTamZoNzLjCO+Dg@mail.gmail.com>

Also, in the screenshot you attached, it looks like the arguments
"signing-keystore" and "keystore" expect a different value.

The "keystore" looks like it should be the "android_upload.keystore" you
created and used to sign the app in LiveCode. I am not sure what is the
"signing-keystore" - were you asked to create one?

Same for the "signing-key-alias" - it looks like it is expected to be
different for the "alias" (the latter should be "sehenkey")

I had a look in the terminal command I had issued back then, and it did not
include these 2 arguments ("signing-key-alias" and "signing-keystore") - it
was just:

java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey
--output=output.zip  --rsa-aes-encryption
--encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem

So it might be worth giving this a try as well, again with openjdk 20.0.1

Kind regards,
Panos


On Wed, 28 Aug 2024 at 10:02, panagiotis merakos <merakosp at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello Klaus,
>
> I vaguelly remember I had a similar problem in the past. After searching
> in stackoverflow, it was suggested to use the OpenJDK version of Java,
> rather than the Oracle's one.
>
> I had used version 20.0.1. I still have the .tar file I downloaded back
> then, it is named "openjdk-20.0.1_macos-x64_bin.tar" - and I think it is
> this one:
>
>
> https://download.java.net/java/GA/jdk20.0.1/b4887098932d415489976708ad6d1a4b/9/GPL/openjdk-20.0.1_macos-x64_bin.tar.gz
>
> So it might be worth giving it a try.
>
> Kind regards,
> Panos
> --
>
> On Wed, 28 Aug 2024 at 09:38, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi friends,
>>
>> I really need your help, please, deadline is saturday! :-/
>>
>> If someone who knows (at least a bit of) JAVA, could try this at home
>> see all my steps below, please send me a mail and I will send you the
>> "pepk.jar" file. Not sure if I can post it openly on my server.
>>
>> Many, many thanks in advance!
>>
>>
>> Desparately
>>
>> Klaus
>>
>> > Am 27.08.2024 um 21:52 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> >
>> > Correction in the command:
>> > --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias
>> > needs to be :
>> > --signing-key-alias=sehenkey
>> >
>> > But same errors. :-/
>> >
>> >> Am 27.08.2024 um 21:19 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> >>
>> >> Hi Mark,
>> >>
>> >>> Am 27.08.2024 um 14:11 schrieb Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> >>>
>> >>> On 2024-08-27 13:06, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>> >>>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>>> java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore
>> --alias=sehenkey --output=output.zip
>> signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore
>> --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias --rsa-aes -encryption
>> --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
>> >>> There's a missing `--` in front of `signing-keystore` - that's
>> causing the args error:
>> >>>> Error: Unable to parse the input:
>> [--keystore=android_upload.keystore, --alias=sehenkey, --output=output.zip,
>> signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore,
>> --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias, --rsa-aes, -encryption,
>> --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem]
>> >>>> java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Invalid argument:
>> signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore
>> >>>
>> >>> Warmest Regards,
>> >>>
>> >>> Mark.
>> >>
>> >> thank you, but that was not it.
>> >>
>> >> Here is what Matthias got with the two --
>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey
>> --output=output.zip --signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore
>> --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias --rsa-aes-encryption
>> --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
>> > java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey
>> --output=output.zip --signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore
>> --signing-key-alias=sehenkey --rsa-aes-encryption
>> --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
>> >> Enter password for store 'android_upload.keystore':
>> >> Enter password for key 'sehenkey':
>> >> Error: Unable to export or encrypt the private key
>> >> java.security.spec.InvalidKeySpecException:
>> java.security.InvalidKeyException: Unable to decode key
>> >> at
>> java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAKeyFactory.engineGeneratePublic(RSAKeyFactory.java:241)
>> >> at
>> java.base/java.security.KeyFactory.generatePublic(KeyFactory.java:351)
>> >> at
>> com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.readPublicKey(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:309)
>> >> at
>> com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.encryptPrivateKeyWithCkmRsaAesKeyWrapEncryption(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:283)
>> >> at
>> com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.run(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:213)
>> >> at
>> com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.main(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:165)
>> >> Caused by: java.security.InvalidKeyException: Unable to decode key
>> >> at java.base/sun.security.x509.X509Key.decode(X509Key.java:368)
>> >> at java.base/sun.security.x509.X509Key.decode(X509Key.java:374)
>> >> at
>> java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAPublicKeyImpl.<init>(RSAPublicKeyImpl.java:148)
>> >> at
>> java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAPublicKeyImpl.newKey(RSAPublicKeyImpl.java:80)
>> >> at
>> java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAKeyFactory.generatePublic(RSAKeyFactory.java:324)
>> >> at
>> java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAKeyFactory.engineGeneratePublic(RSAKeyFactory.java:237)
>> >> ... 5 more
>> >> Caused by: java.io.IOException: DerValue.getOID, not an OID 2
>> >> at java.base/sun.security.util.DerValue.getOID(DerValue.java:552)
>> >> at
>> java.base/sun.security.util.DerInputStream.getOID(DerInputStream.java:165)
>> >> at java.base/sun.security.x509.AlgorithmId.parse(AlgorithmId.java:398)
>> >> at java.base/sun.security.x509.X509Key.decode(X509Key.java:361)
>> >> ... 10 more
>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> :-(
>> >>
>> >> Any ideas?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Best
>> >>
>> >> Klaus
>> >> --
>> >> Klaus Major
>> >> https://www.major-k.de
>> >> https://www.major-k.de/bass
>> >> klaus at major-k.de
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> use-livecode mailing list
>> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> >
>> > --
>> > Klaus Major
>> > https://www.major-k.de
>> > https://www.major-k.de/bass
>> > klaus at major-k.de
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > use-livecode mailing list
>> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>> --
>> Klaus Major
>> https://www.major-k.de
>> https://www.major-k.de/bass
>> klaus at major-k.de
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>

From klaus at major-k.de  Wed Aug 28 03:37:54 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2024 09:37:54 +0200
Subject: Still problems with creating the neccessary file for keystore
 reset (Lengthy mail)
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq_=KRLyCEPt5cy9mAwurEcD5wUxjPrXTamZoNzLjCO+Dg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <F94EB80A-150C-4F77-83DB-12816D167BCF@major-k.de>
 <5e55c3d97ffc70543f380c54a88ae648@livecode.com>
 <C837AA3F-D425-40AF-8714-32368AAF71EC@major-k.de>
 <CED371B6-D59B-4E39-8B73-AE1D05FB2E5B@major-k.de>
 <CB04C1D0-558D-4A36-98FA-9795D299301B@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq-8+-H8ucfzpHxNUmb9zcarjVwRJvhUXPGo+xMckJg5kA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+JfEq_=KRLyCEPt5cy9mAwurEcD5wUxjPrXTamZoNzLjCO+Dg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0FA9E468-37DE-486F-A4E3-144A6EB05FDF@major-k.de>

Hi Panos,

> Am 28.08.2024 um 09:17 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Also, in the screenshot you attached, it looks like the arguments
> "signing-keystore" and "keystore" expect a different value.
> 
> The "keystore" looks like it should be the "android_upload.keystore" you
> created and used to sign the app in LiveCode. I am not sure what is the
> "signing-keystore" - were you asked to create one?
> 
> Same for the "signing-key-alias" - it looks like it is expected to be
> different for the "alias" (the latter should be "sehenkey")
> 
> I had a look in the terminal command I had issued back then, and it did not
> include these 2 arguments ("signing-key-alias" and "signing-keystore") - it
> was just:
> 
> java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey
> --output=output.zip  --rsa-aes-encryption
> --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
> 
> So it might be worth giving this a try as well, again with openjdk 20.0.1

sounds promising! :-)
Thank you, we will try this.

> Kind regards,
> Panos

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From jbv at souslelogo.com  Wed Aug 28 04:20:51 2024
From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2024 04:20:51 -0400
Subject: Strange...
Message-ID: <bc05254ac263532537f6db42cdf85cfe@souslelogo.com>

("936,474" is within "777,50,1424,10000") -> true

("936,474" is within "777,50,1424,100000") -> false

LC 9.6.9 on Mac OSX 10.15


From curry at pair.com  Wed Aug 28 05:15:50 2024
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2024 05:15:50 -0400
Subject: Still problems with creating the neccessary file for keystore
 reset (Lengthy mail)
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq-8+-H8ucfzpHxNUmb9zcarjVwRJvhUXPGo+xMckJg5kA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+JfEq-8+-H8ucfzpHxNUmb9zcarjVwRJvhUXPGo+xMckJg5kA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <80323263-6cdc-4708-9b9e-df03438be107@pair.com>

Klaus:

 > I really need your help, please, deadline is saturday! :-/

It has been almost a couple of years since last Android project;
my current laptop is not set up for it yet. But ...

Panos:

 > I vaguely remember I had a similar problem in the past. After
 > searching in stackoverflow, it was suggested to use the OpenJDK
 > version of Java, rather than the Oracle's one.

I do clearly remember that WHICH Java is absolutely crucial -
including the version number! NOT the newest version, I think.

Beyond that I only 'vaguely remember' like Panos,
but the right combination just works, otherwise futile.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
"PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
https://livecodeconsulting.com/


From klaus at major-k.de  Wed Aug 28 06:17:17 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2024 12:17:17 +0200
Subject: Still problems with creating the neccessary file for keystore
 reset (Lengthy mail)
In-Reply-To: <0FA9E468-37DE-486F-A4E3-144A6EB05FDF@major-k.de>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <F94EB80A-150C-4F77-83DB-12816D167BCF@major-k.de>
 <5e55c3d97ffc70543f380c54a88ae648@livecode.com>
 <C837AA3F-D425-40AF-8714-32368AAF71EC@major-k.de>
 <CED371B6-D59B-4E39-8B73-AE1D05FB2E5B@major-k.de>
 <CB04C1D0-558D-4A36-98FA-9795D299301B@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq-8+-H8ucfzpHxNUmb9zcarjVwRJvhUXPGo+xMckJg5kA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+JfEq_=KRLyCEPt5cy9mAwurEcD5wUxjPrXTamZoNzLjCO+Dg@mail.gmail.com>
 <0FA9E468-37DE-486F-A4E3-144A6EB05FDF@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <02C1524C-DDFE-495F-9804-BF4227444137@major-k.de>

Hi Panos,

I had created a new keystore and PEM file with the shell commands that Gooogle support supplied.
Still no joy...
----------------------------------------------------
% java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload2.jks --alias=upload --output=output.zip  --rsa-aes-encryption --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate2.pem
Enter password for store 'android_upload2.jks':
Enter password for key 'upload':
Error: Unable to export or encrypt the private key
java.security.UnrecoverableKeyException: Get Key failed: Given final block not properly padded. Such issues can arise if a bad key is used during decryption.
	at java.base/sun.security.pkcs12.PKCS12KeyStore.engineGetKey(PKCS12KeyStore.java:454)
	at java.base/sun.security.util.KeyStoreDelegator.engineGetKey(KeyStoreDelegator.java:93)
	at java.base/java.security.KeyStore.getKey(KeyStore.java:1075)
	at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.KeystoreHelper.extractPrivateKey(KeystoreHelper.java:63)
	at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.KeystoreHelper.getPrivateKey(KeystoreHelper.java:35)
	at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.run(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:209)
	at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.main(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:165)
Caused by: javax.crypto.BadPaddingException: Given final block not properly padded. Such issues can arise if a bad key is used during decryption.
	at java.base/com.sun.crypto.provider.CipherCore.unpad(CipherCore.java:861)
	at java.base/com.sun.crypto.provider.CipherCore.fillOutputBuffer(CipherCore.java:941)
	at java.base/com.sun.crypto.provider.CipherCore.doFinal(CipherCore.java:734)
	at java.base/com.sun.crypto.provider.PBES2Core.engineDoFinal(PBES2Core.java:310)
	at java.base/javax.crypto.Cipher.doFinal(Cipher.java:2244)
	at java.base/sun.security.pkcs12.PKCS12KeyStore.lambda$engineGetKey$0(PKCS12KeyStore.java:370)
	at java.base/sun.security.pkcs12.PKCS12KeyStore$RetryWithZero.run(PKCS12KeyStore.java:257)
	at java.base/sun.security.pkcs12.PKCS12KeyStore.engineGetKey(PKCS12KeyStore.java:361)
	... 6 more
-------------------------------------------------------

I will also write a mail to Google support now, maybe they can explain what's going wrong.
The tone of their last mails however made me feel that they only take actual JAVA developers seriously. :-/

> Am 28.08.2024 um 09:37 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi Panos,
> 
>> Am 28.08.2024 um 09:17 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Also, in the screenshot you attached, it looks like the arguments
>> "signing-keystore" and "keystore" expect a different value.
>> 
>> The "keystore" looks like it should be the "android_upload.keystore" you
>> created and used to sign the app in LiveCode. I am not sure what is the
>> "signing-keystore" - were you asked to create one?
>> 
>> Same for the "signing-key-alias" - it looks like it is expected to be
>> different for the "alias" (the latter should be "sehenkey")
>> 
>> I had a look in the terminal command I had issued back then, and it did not
>> include these 2 arguments ("signing-key-alias" and "signing-keystore") - it
>> was just:
>> 
>> java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey
>> --output=output.zip  --rsa-aes-encryption
>> --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
>> 
>> So it might be worth giving this a try as well, again with openjdk 20.0.1
> 
> sounds promising! :-)
> Thank you, we will try this.
> 
>> Kind regards,
>> Panos

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From merakosp at gmail.com  Wed Aug 28 06:58:16 2024
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2024 13:58:16 +0300
Subject: Still problems with creating the neccessary file for keystore
 reset (Lengthy mail)
In-Reply-To: <02C1524C-DDFE-495F-9804-BF4227444137@major-k.de>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <F94EB80A-150C-4F77-83DB-12816D167BCF@major-k.de>
 <5e55c3d97ffc70543f380c54a88ae648@livecode.com>
 <C837AA3F-D425-40AF-8714-32368AAF71EC@major-k.de>
 <CED371B6-D59B-4E39-8B73-AE1D05FB2E5B@major-k.de>
 <CB04C1D0-558D-4A36-98FA-9795D299301B@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq-8+-H8ucfzpHxNUmb9zcarjVwRJvhUXPGo+xMckJg5kA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+JfEq_=KRLyCEPt5cy9mAwurEcD5wUxjPrXTamZoNzLjCO+Dg@mail.gmail.com>
 <0FA9E468-37DE-486F-A4E3-144A6EB05FDF@major-k.de>
 <02C1524C-DDFE-495F-9804-BF4227444137@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq9M8dLMjHF53iAtz8Q8pLN3PZD9vzKj2_9LJrhojaSKrA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Klaus,

Hmm this looks like a different error. I also noticed that the new keystore
you created has extension ".jks" and not ".keystore".

Could you try with your old .keystore and .pem file, i.e. something like
this:

java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey
--output=output.zip  --rsa-aes-encryption
--encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem

Kind regards,
Panos
--

On Wed, 28 Aug 2024 at 13:18, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Panos,
>
> I had created a new keystore and PEM file with the shell commands that
> Gooogle support supplied.
> Still no joy...
> ----------------------------------------------------
> % java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload2.jks --alias=upload
> --output=output.zip  --rsa-aes-encryption
> --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate2.pem
> Enter password for store 'android_upload2.jks':
> Enter password for key 'upload':
> Error: Unable to export or encrypt the private key
> java.security.UnrecoverableKeyException: Get Key failed: Given final block
> not properly padded. Such issues can arise if a bad key is used during
> decryption.
>         at
> java.base/sun.security.pkcs12.PKCS12KeyStore.engineGetKey(PKCS12KeyStore.java:454)
>         at
> java.base/sun.security.util.KeyStoreDelegator.engineGetKey(KeyStoreDelegator.java:93)
>         at java.base/java.security.KeyStore.getKey(KeyStore.java:1075)
>         at
> com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.KeystoreHelper.extractPrivateKey(KeystoreHelper.java:63)
>         at
> com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.KeystoreHelper.getPrivateKey(KeystoreHelper.java:35)
>         at
> com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.run(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:209)
>         at
> com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.main(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:165)
> Caused by: javax.crypto.BadPaddingException: Given final block not
> properly padded. Such issues can arise if a bad key is used during
> decryption.
>         at
> java.base/com.sun.crypto.provider.CipherCore.unpad(CipherCore.java:861)
>         at
> java.base/com.sun.crypto.provider.CipherCore.fillOutputBuffer(CipherCore.java:941)
>         at
> java.base/com.sun.crypto.provider.CipherCore.doFinal(CipherCore.java:734)
>         at
> java.base/com.sun.crypto.provider.PBES2Core.engineDoFinal(PBES2Core.java:310)
>         at java.base/javax.crypto.Cipher.doFinal(Cipher.java:2244)
>         at
> java.base/sun.security.pkcs12.PKCS12KeyStore.lambda$engineGetKey$0(PKCS12KeyStore.java:370)
>         at
> java.base/sun.security.pkcs12.PKCS12KeyStore$RetryWithZero.run(PKCS12KeyStore.java:257)
>         at
> java.base/sun.security.pkcs12.PKCS12KeyStore.engineGetKey(PKCS12KeyStore.java:361)
>         ... 6 more
> -------------------------------------------------------
>
> I will also write a mail to Google support now, maybe they can explain
> what's going wrong.
> The tone of their last mails however made me feel that they only take
> actual JAVA developers seriously. :-/
>
> > Am 28.08.2024 um 09:37 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> >
> > Hi Panos,
> >
> >> Am 28.08.2024 um 09:17 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> >>
> >> Also, in the screenshot you attached, it looks like the arguments
> >> "signing-keystore" and "keystore" expect a different value.
> >>
> >> The "keystore" looks like it should be the "android_upload.keystore" you
> >> created and used to sign the app in LiveCode. I am not sure what is the
> >> "signing-keystore" - were you asked to create one?
> >>
> >> Same for the "signing-key-alias" - it looks like it is expected to be
> >> different for the "alias" (the latter should be "sehenkey")
> >>
> >> I had a look in the terminal command I had issued back then, and it did
> not
> >> include these 2 arguments ("signing-key-alias" and "signing-keystore")
> - it
> >> was just:
> >>
> >> java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey
> >> --output=output.zip  --rsa-aes-encryption
> >> --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
> >>
> >> So it might be worth giving this a try as well, again with openjdk
> 20.0.1
> >
> > sounds promising! :-)
> > Thank you, we will try this.
> >
> >> Kind regards,
> >> Panos
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
>
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From klaus at major-k.de  Wed Aug 28 07:05:42 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2024 13:05:42 +0200
Subject: Still problems with creating the neccessary file for keystore
 reset (Lengthy mail)
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq9M8dLMjHF53iAtz8Q8pLN3PZD9vzKj2_9LJrhojaSKrA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <F94EB80A-150C-4F77-83DB-12816D167BCF@major-k.de>
 <5e55c3d97ffc70543f380c54a88ae648@livecode.com>
 <C837AA3F-D425-40AF-8714-32368AAF71EC@major-k.de>
 <CED371B6-D59B-4E39-8B73-AE1D05FB2E5B@major-k.de>
 <CB04C1D0-558D-4A36-98FA-9795D299301B@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq-8+-H8ucfzpHxNUmb9zcarjVwRJvhUXPGo+xMckJg5kA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+JfEq_=KRLyCEPt5cy9mAwurEcD5wUxjPrXTamZoNzLjCO+Dg@mail.gmail.com>
 <0FA9E468-37DE-486F-A4E3-144A6EB05FDF@major-k.de>
 <02C1524C-DDFE-495F-9804-BF4227444137@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq9M8dLMjHF53iAtz8Q8pLN3PZD9vzKj2_9LJrhojaSKrA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3B60CC15-FB52-4DA8-B262-DDF24B5033BF@major-k.de>

Hi Panos,

still no joy...
...
java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey --output=output.zip  --rsa-aes-encryption --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
Enter password for key 'sehenkey':
Error: Unable to export or encrypt the private key
java.security.spec.InvalidKeySpecException: java.security.InvalidKeyException: IOException: DerValue.getOID, not an OID 2
	at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAKeyFactory.engineGeneratePublic(RSAKeyFactory.java:241)
	at java.base/java.security.KeyFactory.generatePublic(KeyFactory.java:351)
	at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.readPublicKey(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:309)
	at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.encryptPrivateKeyWithCkmRsaAesKeyWrapEncryption(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:283)
	at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.run(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:213)
	at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.main(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:165)
Caused by: java.security.InvalidKeyException: IOException: DerValue.getOID, not an OID 2
	at java.base/sun.security.x509.X509Key.decode(X509Key.java:375)
	at java.base/sun.security.x509.X509Key.decode(X509Key.java:380)
	at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAPublicKeyImpl.<init>(RSAPublicKeyImpl.java:146)
	at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAPublicKeyImpl.newKey(RSAPublicKeyImpl.java:78)
	at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAKeyFactory.generatePublic(RSAKeyFactory.java:324)
	at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAKeyFactory.engineGeneratePublic(RSAKeyFactory.java:237)
	... 5 more

> Am 28.08.2024 um 12:58 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hello Klaus,
> 
> Hmm this looks like a different error. I also noticed that the new keystore
> you created has extension ".jks" and not ".keystore".

Yes, for testing I had created a new Keystore and PEM file with these names.

> Could you try with your old .keystore and .pem file, i.e. something like
> this:
> 
> java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey
> --output=output.zip  --rsa-aes-encryption
> --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
> 
> Kind regards,
> Panos

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From brian at milby7.com  Wed Aug 28 08:17:41 2024
From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2024 08:17:41 -0400
Subject: Strange...
In-Reply-To: <bc05254ac263532537f6db42cdf85cfe@souslelogo.com>
References: <bc05254ac263532537f6db42cdf85cfe@souslelogo.com>
Message-ID: <55F5ECFF-B42B-4839-BF63-290BDC3C16CE@milby7.com>

Looks like ~32k is the max value allowed for a coordinate value.

Brian Milby
brian at milby7.com

> On Aug 28, 2024, at 4:22 AM, jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> ("936,474" is within "777,50,1424,10000") -> true
> 
> ("936,474" is within "777,50,1424,100000") -> false
> 
> LC 9.6.9 on Mac OSX 10.15
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Wed Aug 28 11:17:26 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2024 15:17:26 +0000
Subject: Strange...
In-Reply-To: <55F5ECFF-B42B-4839-BF63-290BDC3C16CE@milby7.com>
References: <bc05254ac263532537f6db42cdf85cfe@souslelogo.com>
 <55F5ECFF-B42B-4839-BF63-290BDC3C16CE@milby7.com>
Message-ID: <84FD4978-A4C6-4218-8D45-49C863D1E11C@iotecdigital.com>

Easy enough to test. 

put ("936,474" is within "777,50,1424,32767”) —> true
put ("936,474" is within "777,50,1424,32768”) —> false

Bob S


> On Aug 28, 2024, at 5:17 AM, Brian Milby via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Looks like ~32k is the max value allowed for a coordinate value.
> 
> Brian Milby
> brian at milby7.com
> 
>> On Aug 28, 2024, at 4:22 AM, jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> ("936,474" is within "777,50,1424,10000") -> true
>> 
>> ("936,474" is within "777,50,1424,100000") -> false
>> 
>> LC 9.6.9 on Mac OSX 10.15
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From brian at milby7.com  Wed Aug 28 13:07:10 2024
From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2024 13:07:10 -0400
Subject: Strange...
In-Reply-To: <84FD4978-A4C6-4218-8D45-49C863D1E11C@iotecdigital.com>
References: <84FD4978-A4C6-4218-8D45-49C863D1E11C@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <C93DD07F-79BE-4044-A23D-777314CAC4D9@milby7.com>

Exactly (that is essentially what I did)

The actual full rect is:
(-32768,-32768,32767,32767)

Brian Milby
brian at milby7.com

> On Aug 28, 2024, at 11:19 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Easy enough to test.
> 
> put ("936,474" is within "777,50,1424,32767”) —> true
> put ("936,474" is within "777,50,1424,32768”) —> false
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Aug 28, 2024, at 5:17 AM, Brian Milby via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Looks like ~32k is the max value allowed for a coordinate value.
>> 
>> Brian Milby
>> brian at milby7.com
>> 
>>>> On Aug 28, 2024, at 4:22 AM, jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ("936,474" is within "777,50,1424,10000") -> true
>>> 
>>> ("936,474" is within "777,50,1424,100000") -> false
>>> 
>>> LC 9.6.9 on Mac OSX 10.15
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From klaus at major-k.de  Wed Aug 28 13:52:02 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2024 19:52:02 +0200
Subject: Strange...
In-Reply-To: <C93DD07F-79BE-4044-A23D-777314CAC4D9@milby7.com>
References: <84FD4978-A4C6-4218-8D45-49C863D1E11C@iotecdigital.com>
 <C93DD07F-79BE-4044-A23D-777314CAC4D9@milby7.com>
Message-ID: <DA94542E-4296-42D8-A551-CCD8DCFE43CF@major-k.de>



> Am 28.08.2024 um 19:07 schrieb Brian Milby via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Exactly (that is essentially what I did)
> 
> The actual full rect is:
> (-32768,-32768,32767,32767)

should suffice for a simple addressbook app. :-)

> Brian Milby
> brian at milby7.com
> 
>> On Aug 28, 2024, at 11:19 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> Easy enough to test.
>> put ("936,474" is within "777,50,1424,32767”) —> true
>> put ("936,474" is within "777,50,1424,32768”) —> false
>> Bob S
>>> On Aug 28, 2024, at 5:17 AM, Brian Milby via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> Looks like ~32k is the max value allowed for a coordinate value.
>>> Brian Milby
>>> brian at milby7.com
>>> 
>>>>> On Aug 28, 2024, at 4:22 AM, jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> ("936,474" is within "777,50,1424,10000") -> true
>>>> ("936,474" is within "777,50,1424,100000") -> false
>>>> LC 9.6.9 on Mac OSX 10.15

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From jbv at souslelogo.com  Wed Aug 28 14:48:38 2024
From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2024 14:48:38 -0400
Subject: Strange...
In-Reply-To: <DA94542E-4296-42D8-A551-CCD8DCFE43CF@major-k.de>
References: <84FD4978-A4C6-4218-8D45-49C863D1E11C@iotecdigital.com>
 <C93DD07F-79BE-4044-A23D-777314CAC4D9@milby7.com>
 <DA94542E-4296-42D8-A551-CCD8DCFE43CF@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <961a3030883a163bc46b8526bcc5f079@souslelogo.com>

Le 2024-08-28 13:52, Klaus major-k via use-livecode a crit :
> 
> should suffice for a simple addressbook app. :-)
> 

yep, but not for processing any kind of raw data...


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Wed Aug 28 18:06:37 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2024 22:06:37 +0000
Subject: Strange...
In-Reply-To: <961a3030883a163bc46b8526bcc5f079@souslelogo.com>
References: <84FD4978-A4C6-4218-8D45-49C863D1E11C@iotecdigital.com>
 <C93DD07F-79BE-4044-A23D-777314CAC4D9@milby7.com>
 <DA94542E-4296-42D8-A551-CCD8DCFE43CF@major-k.de>
 <961a3030883a163bc46b8526bcc5f079@souslelogo.com>
Message-ID: <812482E3-12CB-45AB-850B-D60E51490186@iotecdigital.com>

put "777,50,1424,10000" into tCoords
put item 1 of tCoords > -32768 AND \
item 2 of tCoords > -32768 AND \
item 3 of tCoords < 32767 AND \
item 4 of tCoords < 32767 AND \
"936,474" is within tCoords --> true

put "777,50,1424,100000" into tCoords
put item 1 of tCoords > -32768 AND \
item 2 of tCoords > -32768 AND \
item 3 of tCoords < 32767 AND \
item 4 of tCoords < 32767 AND \
"936,474" is within tCoords --> false

Bob S


> On Aug 28, 2024, at 11:48 AM, jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Le 2024-08-28 13:52, Klaus major-k via use-livecode a écrit :
>> should suffice for a simple addressbook app. :-)
> 
> yep, but not for processing any kind of raw data...
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Aug 29 05:15:42 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2024 11:15:42 +0200
Subject: Android API 34 and Android keystore:  SOLVED
Message-ID: <E50A1ADA-1672-4A0B-91FC-7F35E464D9E8@major-k.de>

Hi friends,

I am glad to tell you that we could finally solve this problem.
Right in time for the deadline on saturday, phew...

We had to download and use an "encryption_public_key.pem"
file from google in the JAVA command for the last param!
Sometimes one does not see the forest for the trees...

I want to thank the community and especially Panos, Mark W. 
and Matthias Rebbe for their wonderful and really helpful assistance.
I love you guys! :-)

But Googles support defintitively sucks and had caused more 
irritation than giving helpful hints.

Again thanks to all, have a wonderful weekend!


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Aug 29 12:19:46 2024
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2024 11:19:46 -0500
Subject: Android API 34 and Android keystore:  SOLVED
In-Reply-To: <E50A1ADA-1672-4A0B-91FC-7F35E464D9E8@major-k.de>
References: <E50A1ADA-1672-4A0B-91FC-7F35E464D9E8@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <1919eef90d0.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

Whew! The team is the best. And Matthias is always kind and helpful.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On August 29, 2024 4:18:06 AM Klaus major-k via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi friends,
>
> I am glad to tell you that we could finally solve this problem.
> Right in time for the deadline on saturday, phew...
>
> We had to download and use an "encryption_public_key.pem"
> file from google in the JAVA command for the last param!
> Sometimes one does not see the forest for the trees...
>
> I want to thank the community and especially Panos, Mark W.
> and Matthias Rebbe for their wonderful and really helpful assistance.
> I love you guys! :-)
>
> But Googles support defintitively sucks and had caused more
> irritation than giving helpful hints.
>
> Again thanks to all, have a wonderful weekend!
>
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Thu Aug 29 12:44:56 2024
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2024 12:44:56 -0400
Subject: Android API 34 and Android keystore:  SOLVED
In-Reply-To: <1919eef90d0.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <E50A1ADA-1672-4A0B-91FC-7F35E464D9E8@major-k.de>
 <1919eef90d0.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <000e01dafa32$cb527ae0$61f770a0$@net>

+1

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
Of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2024 12:20 PM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: J. Landman Gay
Subject: Re: Android API 34 and Android keystore: SOLVED

Whew! The team is the best. And Matthias is always kind and helpful.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software |
http://www.hyperactivesw.com On August 29, 2024 4:18:06 AM Klaus major-k via
use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi friends,
>
> I am glad to tell you that we could finally solve this problem.
> Right in time for the deadline on saturday, phew...
>
> We had to download and use an "encryption_public_key.pem"
> file from google in the JAVA command for the last param!
> Sometimes one does not see the forest for the trees...
>
> I want to thank the community and especially Panos, Mark W.
> and Matthias Rebbe for their wonderful and really helpful assistance.
> I love you guys! :-)
>
> But Googles support defintitively sucks and had caused more irritation 
> than giving helpful hints.
>
> Again thanks to all, have a wonderful weekend!
>
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From benr_mc at cogapp.com  Fri Aug  2 03:22:00 2024
From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 08:22:00 +0100
Subject: Late arrival to LiveCode Future (and possibly early leaver!)
Message-ID: <48549626-1050-46d4-a581-248870345cf8@cogapp.com>

I've been away, in various senses, and only just read about all this.

I have enormous respect for Kevin and LiveCode.

I've been using the product since it was Metacard, and Revolution (as it was 
then) was an enormous upgrade. The first bug I reported in the quality control 
centre was over 20 years ago (was there another system before then? I don't 
recall anymore). (And indeed the 64th report I made, marked as CONFIRMED but 
still not actioned, that I'd still like, was reported over 20 years ago... ).

I've used it to make tools for myself, a lot; tools for my colleagues a bit; 
tools for clients a bit. Mostly now it's tools for myself, which very rarely 
get built into standalones; but I still maintain a few tools for clients.

As the world developed over the decades, I feared for Kevin's company, 
whatever it was variously called. I felt that they were pursuing an almost 
impossible mission, maintaining and extending an extremely niche language 
across multiple platforms - having to persuade potential clients to buy a 
language before they could try to persuade them to buy a product. I supported 
most or all of the various fundraisers, sometimes with my company's money but 
more often with my own, even for developments I'm not interested in like HTML 
and Xavvi; in solidarity. I'm sorry that the open source experiment didn't 
work out, I'm sorry that the Filemaker idea didn't work out.

I am frankly surprised, and deeply impressed, that they have survived this 
long. It is a tribute to their tenacity and agility.

They have the right to take the company and product in whatever direction they 
think will produce the best result, and I wish them all the best luck in the 
world.

Having said all that:

- Create is not for me.

- I'll keep using Classic while I can

- Please put everything we to need know in text - I can't watch videos*

- Three things I don't yet know:
    - Is Classic changing in any way - e.g. will standalones phone home?
    - Classic supported to 2025 - is that Jan 1 2027, or Dec 31 2027?
    - When Classic goes EOL, will it stop working, or just not receive updates 
for new OS, app store rules etc?
	
Thanks and all the best,

Ben


* doc hawk wrote (01/08/2024):
 > You say the as if expecting someone to view a video to get information 
wasnt an act of Evil . . . :)

- and probably against DDA/ADA/EA


From index at kenjikojima.com  Fri Aug  2 05:59:25 2024
From: index at kenjikojima.com (Kenji Kojima)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 05:59:25 -0400
Subject: Late arrival to LiveCode Future (and possibly early leaver!)
In-Reply-To: <48549626-1050-46d4-a581-248870345cf8@cogapp.com>
References: <48549626-1050-46d4-a581-248870345cf8@cogapp.com>
Message-ID: <52B83FC8-17BB-4AE1-BDE9-C84A39126005@kenjikojima.com>

I agree Ben. 

I've used it to make tools for myself
- Create is not for me.
- I'll keep using Classic while I can
- Please put everything we to need know in text 
- I can't watch videos*

Best,
--
Kenji Kojima / 小島健治
http://www.kenjikojima.com/



> On Aug 2, 2024, at 3:22 AM, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I've been away, in various senses, and only just read about all this.
> 
> I have enormous respect for Kevin and LiveCode.
> 
> I've been using the product since it was Metacard, and Revolution (as it was then) was an enormous upgrade. The first bug I reported in the quality control centre was over 20 years ago (was there another system before then? I don't recall anymore). (And indeed the 64th report I made, marked as CONFIRMED but still not actioned, that I'd still like, was reported over 20 years ago... 🤨).
> 
> I've used it to make tools for myself, a lot; tools for my colleagues a bit; tools for clients a bit. Mostly now it's tools for myself, which very rarely get built into standalones; but I still maintain a few tools for clients.
> 
> As the world developed over the decades, I feared for Kevin's company, whatever it was variously called. I felt that they were pursuing an almost impossible mission, maintaining and extending an extremely niche language across multiple platforms - having to persuade potential clients to buy a language before they could try to persuade them to buy a product. I supported most or all of the various fundraisers, sometimes with my company's money but more often with my own, even for developments I'm not interested in like HTML and Xavvi; in solidarity. I'm sorry that the open source experiment didn't work out, I'm sorry that the Filemaker idea didn't work out.
> 
> I am frankly surprised, and deeply impressed, that they have survived this long. It is a tribute to their tenacity and agility.
> 
> They have the right to take the company and product in whatever direction they think will produce the best result, and I wish them all the best luck in the world.
> 
> Having said all that:
> 
> - Create is not for me.
> 
> - I'll keep using Classic while I can
> 
> - Please put everything we to need know in text - I can't watch videos*
> 
> - Three things I don't yet know:
>   - Is Classic changing in any way - e.g. will standalones phone home?
>   - Classic supported to 2025 - is that Jan 1 2027, or Dec 31 2027?
>   - When Classic goes EOL, will it stop working, or just not receive updates for new OS, app store rules etc?
> 	
> Thanks and all the best,
> 
> Ben
> 
> 
> * doc hawk wrote (01/08/2024):
> > You say the as if expecting someone to view a video to get information wasn’t an act of Evil . . . :)
> 
> - and probably against DDA/ADA/EA
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From curry at pair.com  Fri Aug  2 10:31:16 2024
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 10:31:16 -0400
Subject: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND 2027!
Message-ID: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>


Everyone I know wants to keep using LC Classic for a while.
Most people still want it. Read this list. LC Classic is popular!

Launching LC 10 as DOA or a 'lame duck' makes little sense.
LC 9 and 10 are still heavily in demand under the old terms.

(I'm not against progress; in fact, before Create was announced ...
I knew of at least 3 independent next-gen projects for LiveCode.
Including my own! None would have cost $ millions, but anyway. :)
Make a smoother, friendlier LiveCode transition for best results.)

So, how long can we access the bona fide LC 9 and 10 Classic IDEs?
Given the widespread demand - Through end of 2028? 2029? 2030?
For all those of us who keep existing subscriptions, at least.
And maintain LC 10 platform support for that duration.

(Old licensing terms for app builds created with them, of course.)

Kudos to all those thinking the same thing, and speaking up!

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
"PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
https://livecodeconsulting.com/


From kaveh at rivervalley.io  Fri Aug  2 10:51:14 2024
From: kaveh at rivervalley.io (Kaveh Bazargan)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 15:51:14 +0100
Subject: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND 2027!
In-Reply-To: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>
References: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ2R9pgg_p6Hi4eDiTssm_Pn9DyjCNjJD4iRBjCsor=K0bUDHA@mail.gmail.com>

I've been half following the recent tweets but just don't have the mental
capacity to keep up.

FYI I used HyperCard since it was Beta and no manual!! I really commend
what Kevin and team have done to keep the world's most friendly programming
environment going. I wish I could just pay for LiveCode and use it. I am
guessing that is what Classic is. But perhaps I am just getting too old!

Regards
Kaveh

On Fri, 2 Aug 2024 at 15:32, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>
> Everyone I know wants to keep using LC Classic for a while.
> Most people still want it. Read this list. LC Classic is popular!
>
> Launching LC 10 as DOA or a 'lame duck' makes little sense.
> LC 9 and 10 are still heavily in demand under the old terms.
>
> (I'm not against progress; in fact, before Create was announced ...
> I knew of at least 3 independent next-gen projects for LiveCode.
> Including my own! None would have cost $ millions, but anyway. :)
> Make a smoother, friendlier LiveCode transition for best results.)
>
> So, how long can we access the bona fide LC 9 and 10 Classic IDEs?
> Given the widespread demand - Through end of 2028? 2029? 2030?
> For all those of us who keep existing subscriptions, at least.
> And maintain LC 10 platform support for that duration.
>
> (Old licensing terms for app builds created with them, of course.)
>
> Kudos to all those thinking the same thing, and speaking up!
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Curry Kenworthy
>
> Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
> "PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
> https://livecodeconsulting.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
Kaveh Bazargan PhD
Director
River Valley Technologies <http://rivervalley.io> ● Twitter
<https://twitter.com/rivervalley1000> ● LinkedIn
<https://www.linkedin.com/in/bazargankaveh/> ● ORCID
<https://orcid.org/0000-0002-1414-9098> ● @kaveh1000 at mastodon.social
<https://mastodon.social/@kaveh1000>
*Accelerating the Communication of Research*

*
<https://www.linkedin.com/posts/bazargankaveh_ismte-innovation-award-recipient-kaveh-bazargan-activity-7039348552526921728-XAEB/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop>
 [image:
https://rivervalley.io/gigabyte-wins-the-alpsp-scholarly-publishing-innovation-award-using-river-valleys-publishing-technology/]
<https://rivervalley.io/gigabyte-wins-the-alpsp-scholarly-publishing-innovation-award-using-river-valleys-publishing-technology/>*

From irog at mac.com  Fri Aug  2 10:59:43 2024
From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 07:59:43 -0700
Subject: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND 2027!
In-Reply-To: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>
References: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>
Message-ID: <FBBF2716-8A79-4B3B-8DD8-17A054BF188E@mac.com>

I too am in the "Clasic Is For Me Crowd”

- Been here since Metacard
- Use LC strictly as a hobby
- LC is extremely important to me as a hobby 
- Have created hundreds of tools, utilities, simulations, fun things just for shear enjoyment and mental exercise
- Have frequent internet problems that interfere with cloud computing
- Have participated in every fundraising campagne
- Frequently contributed to Example Stacks including Alien Civilization Detection simulation

I beg you, Kevin, don’t take this away from us

Roger

> On Aug 2, 2024, at 7:31 AM, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> Everyone I know wants to keep using LC Classic for a while.
> Most people still want it. Read this list. LC Classic is popular!
> 
> Launching LC 10 as DOA or a 'lame duck' makes little sense.
> LC 9 and 10 are still heavily in demand under the old terms.
> 
> (I'm not against progress; in fact, before Create was announced ...
> I knew of at least 3 independent next-gen projects for LiveCode.
> Including my own! None would have cost $ millions, but anyway. :)
> Make a smoother, friendlier LiveCode transition for best results.)
> 
> So, how long can we access the bona fide LC 9 and 10 Classic IDEs?
> Given the widespread demand - Through end of 2028? 2029? 2030?
> For all those of us who keep existing subscriptions, at least.
> And maintain LC 10 platform support for that duration.
> 
> (Old licensing terms for app builds created with them, of course.)
> 
> Kudos to all those thinking the same thing, and speaking up!
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Curry Kenworthy
> 
> Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
> "PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
> https://livecodeconsulting.com/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From jbv at souslelogo.com  Fri Aug  2 11:13:05 2024
From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com)
Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2024 11:13:05 -0400
Subject: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND 2027!
In-Reply-To: <FBBF2716-8A79-4B3B-8DD8-17A054BF188E@mac.com>
References: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>
 <FBBF2716-8A79-4B3B-8DD8-17A054BF188E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <900b4b3c1e2f090b6a0c7ac6923b6804@souslelogo.com>

Same here.

I have been into hypertalk since the 1st version of HC.

I have 2 desktop apps for 2 different clients that I maintain, and in 
each one
the part developed with LC Classic is just a front end for sending 
requests to
the server and displaying the incoming data. In both cases 80% of the 
tasks is
done server side with LC on 2 on-rev accounts.
I know for certain that none of my clients will accept to pay for 
per-seats
license.

So I have 2 options so far :
- paying myself for these licenses, which I can't afford
- rewrite the front-end of both apps with html/js and forget about LC.

jbv





From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Aug  2 11:17:42 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 15:17:42 +0000
Subject: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND 2027!
In-Reply-To: <FBBF2716-8A79-4B3B-8DD8-17A054BF188E@mac.com>
References: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>
 <FBBF2716-8A79-4B3B-8DD8-17A054BF188E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <66C12BFE-0D1D-4FBB-8C9F-EFFCC1CB225A@iotecdigital.com>

Kevin has clearly made the point that it has become financially untenable to continue with the classic licensing model. You cannot mean that you want him to go bankrupt so that you can maintain your hobby! You are asking him for what he cannot give. It only remains then for all of us to decide what we can and cannot accept.

Bob S


On Aug 2, 2024, at 7:59 AM, Roger Guay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

I too am in the "Clasic Is For Me Crowd”

- Been here since Metacard
- Use LC strictly as a hobby
- LC is extremely important to me as a hobby
- Have created hundreds of tools, utilities, simulations, fun things just for shear enjoyment and mental exercise
- Have frequent internet problems that interfere with cloud computing
- Have participated in every fundraising campagne
- Frequently contributed to Example Stacks including Alien Civilization Detection simulation

I beg you, Kevin, don’t take this away from us

Roger


From jbv at souslelogo.com  Fri Aug  2 11:33:15 2024
From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com)
Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2024 11:33:15 -0400
Subject: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND 2027!
In-Reply-To: <66C12BFE-0D1D-4FBB-8C9F-EFFCC1CB225A@iotecdigital.com>
References: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>
 <FBBF2716-8A79-4B3B-8DD8-17A054BF188E@mac.com>
 <66C12BFE-0D1D-4FBB-8C9F-EFFCC1CB225A@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <95268c465ed573c8adb5cc69916a5435@souslelogo.com>

Le 2024-08-02 11:17, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode a crit :
> You cannot mean that you want him to go bankrupt

Of course not, but neither me or my clients want to go bankrupt.
My clients have already paid for the deployment of their apps and they
are also paying when some cosmetic changes need to be done.
They don't see why they should also pay for using the apps,
especially because they work in some niche markets where any
additional cost is difficult to handle.

Paying licenses for using Photoshop or dropbox is different,
because one didn't pay anything for the deployment of those apps.
I hope I am making myself clear despite my poor english.


From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Fri Aug  2 11:35:22 2024
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 11:35:22 -0400
Subject: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND 2027!
In-Reply-To: <66C12BFE-0D1D-4FBB-8C9F-EFFCC1CB225A@iotecdigital.com>
References: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>
 <FBBF2716-8A79-4B3B-8DD8-17A054BF188E@mac.com>
 <66C12BFE-0D1D-4FBB-8C9F-EFFCC1CB225A@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycOJeJYYzPQLBt00vga06d9xnQRw4Nj+0Ka9Nx2CRay2QA@mail.gmail.com>

as i have previously said, the new pricing ($440 per deployed device) is
untenable for my companies. we won't pay 4d for their REST licenses (for a
much more complete product), either.
we are starting to actively search for alternatives.
if the pricing does not change to something that is actually reasonable,
we're out.

From heather at livecode.com  Fri Aug  2 11:57:11 2024
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 16:57:11 +0100
Subject: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND 2027!
In-Reply-To: <900b4b3c1e2f090b6a0c7ac6923b6804@souslelogo.com>
References: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>
 <FBBF2716-8A79-4B3B-8DD8-17A054BF188E@mac.com>
 <900b4b3c1e2f090b6a0c7ac6923b6804@souslelogo.com>
Message-ID: <166DF444-03E5-4A23-9AE8-8219F0408B5D@livecode.com>

Or you could explain your problem to us directly, as Kevin has asked a couple of times already on this list and we can see what we can do. 

You have an open ticket in support. You have not as yet told me that the new pricing is unaffordable for you.

Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 2 Aug 2024, at 16:13, jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Same here.
> 
> I have been into hypertalk since the 1st version of HC.
> 
> I have 2 desktop apps for 2 different clients that I maintain, and in each one
> the part developed with LC Classic is just a front end for sending requests to
> the server and displaying the incoming data. In both cases 80% of the tasks is
> done server side with LC on 2 on-rev accounts.
> I know for certain that none of my clients will accept to pay for per-seats
> license.
> 
> So I have 2 options so far :
> - paying myself for these licenses, which I can't afford
> - rewrite the front-end of both apps with html/js and forget about LC.
> 
> jbv
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From heather at livecode.com  Fri Aug  2 11:58:06 2024
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 16:58:06 +0100
Subject: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND 2027!
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycOJeJYYzPQLBt00vga06d9xnQRw4Nj+0Ka9Nx2CRay2QA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>
 <FBBF2716-8A79-4B3B-8DD8-17A054BF188E@mac.com>
 <66C12BFE-0D1D-4FBB-8C9F-EFFCC1CB225A@iotecdigital.com>
 <CADCoycOJeJYYzPQLBt00vga06d9xnQRw4Nj+0Ka9Nx2CRay2QA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C787C2B2-0F41-4350-B92C-EE7A74F2676F@livecode.com>

Mike. We asked you to talk to us before the pricing went public. Kevin has reiterated the request that clients with issues get in touch. I once again extend that invitation to you.

Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 2 Aug 2024, at 16:35, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> as i have previously said, the new pricing ($440 per deployed device) is
> untenable for my companies. we won't pay 4d for their REST licenses (for a
> much more complete product), either.
> we are starting to actively search for alternatives.
> if the pricing does not change to something that is actually reasonable,
> we're out.
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From irog at mac.com  Fri Aug  2 12:00:09 2024
From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 09:00:09 -0700
Subject: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND 2027!
In-Reply-To: <66C12BFE-0D1D-4FBB-8C9F-EFFCC1CB225A@iotecdigital.com>
References: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>
 <FBBF2716-8A79-4B3B-8DD8-17A054BF188E@mac.com>
 <66C12BFE-0D1D-4FBB-8C9F-EFFCC1CB225A@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <952B8915-8D46-435A-92D8-F0D6A7EF21EF@mac.com>

If this is the conclusion that you come to, then I failed to make my case. Sorry!

 I thank Kevin for keeping this amazing tool going for so many years and want him to succeed in the future. 

Roger

> On Aug 2, 2024, at 8:17 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:
> 
> You cannot mean that you want him to go bankrupt so that you can maintain your hobby!


> On Aug 2, 2024, at 8:17 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Kevin has clearly made the point that it has become financially untenable to continue with the classic licensing model. You cannot mean that you want him to go bankrupt so that you can maintain your hobby! You are asking him for what he cannot give. It only remains then for all of us to decide what we can and cannot accept.
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
> On Aug 2, 2024, at 7:59 AM, Roger Guay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I too am in the "Clasic Is For Me Crowd”
> 
> - Been here since Metacard
> - Use LC strictly as a hobby
> - LC is extremely important to me as a hobby
> - Have created hundreds of tools, utilities, simulations, fun things just for shear enjoyment and mental exercise
> - Have frequent internet problems that interfere with cloud computing
> - Have participated in every fundraising campagne
> - Frequently contributed to Example Stacks including Alien Civilization Detection simulation
> 
> I beg you, Kevin, don’t take this away from us
> 
> Roger
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From hakan at exformedia.se  Fri Aug  2 12:13:50 2024
From: hakan at exformedia.se (=?utf-8?Q?H=C3=A5kan_Liljegren?=)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 18:13:50 +0200
Subject: Individual licensing questions
In-Reply-To: <190f003b830.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <7F21E930-DFAB-4041-A7E2-C0B4ADB70DC2@livecode.com>
 <190f003b830.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <DE13B361-EC9A-4646-BF11-29E956E6045F@exformedia.se>

Hmm, wouldn’t this count in the other tier as you sell your app, thus you should pay 5% of $75? $3.75
 
:-Håkan

> 26 juli 2024 kl. 19:08 skrev J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> I hope this is generic enough.
> 
> I have several clients who use apps I created just for them, 20 years ago or more. Frequently these are converted HyperCard stacks like address books or recipe files. The apps are personal and no one else uses them. Every 2 or 3 years they contact me because the app stops working, usually due to an incompatible OS update. I recompile the app, and sometimes make a few requested tweaks. Since a compile takes only a few minutes, and because I know these people personally, I charge almost nothing for these services. My last invoice for a rebuild and a minor change was $75.
> 
> I do not want to tell them that they will need to spend hundreds of dollars more for a one time minor update. They will not want a subscription because it's years between changes. And because they are not companies and many are now retired, paying hundreds of dollars to maintain an address book is not feasible. I am very sensitive to their budget requirements.
> 
> I'd like to propose a floor under which no royalty or subscription is required. A minimum charge of, say, $500 would yield $25 to LC at the 5% rate. A charge of $1000 would yield $50.
> 
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On July 26, 2024 6:04:30 AM Kevin Miller via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Folks, I'm happy to go on discussing the licensing model in general on here as needed, for example edge cases or things that aren’t clear in the model, as it helps us to hone it. But at this point if you have individual questions about the costs for you under the new model, please email them to support and we can give you an accurate quote and talk you through your options. Otherwise we are going to be going over the same territory here on the list for some time to come! We’ll build out the information pages some more worked examples next week too. Thanks.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Kevin
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Kevin Miller ~ kevin at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
>> 
>> LiveCode: Build Amazing Things
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Fri Aug  2 12:21:09 2024
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 12:21:09 -0400
Subject: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND 2027!
In-Reply-To: <952B8915-8D46-435A-92D8-F0D6A7EF21EF@mac.com>
References: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>
 <FBBF2716-8A79-4B3B-8DD8-17A054BF188E@mac.com>
 <66C12BFE-0D1D-4FBB-8C9F-EFFCC1CB225A@iotecdigital.com>
 <952B8915-8D46-435A-92D8-F0D6A7EF21EF@mac.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycPo9Z53HkYD3Tz0zwJDDVytdnz2=UVKAfjY_hF0Bck-yg@mail.gmail.com>

heather, as i told you, at the time, i am busy running multiple companies.
i don't have time for pitches.
i asked for you to send me the information so that i could review it, ahead
of a call. that request was declined.
if the pricing remains untenable, we will be rewriting apps and exiting.


On Fri, Aug 2, 2024 at 12:01 PM Roger Guay via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> If this is the conclusion that you come to, then I failed to make my case.
> Sorry!
>
>  I thank Kevin for keeping this amazing tool going for so many years and
> want him to succeed in the future.
>
> Roger
>
> > On Aug 2, 2024, at 8:17 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>
> wrote:
> >
> > You cannot mean that you want him to go bankrupt so that you can
> maintain your hobby!
>
>
> > On Aug 2, 2024, at 8:17 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Kevin has clearly made the point that it has become financially
> untenable to continue with the classic licensing model. You cannot mean
> that you want him to go bankrupt so that you can maintain your hobby! You
> are asking him for what he cannot give. It only remains then for all of us
> to decide what we can and cannot accept.
> >
> > Bob S
> >
> >
> > On Aug 2, 2024, at 7:59 AM, Roger Guay via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > I too am in the "Clasic Is For Me Crowd”
> >
> > - Been here since Metacard
> > - Use LC strictly as a hobby
> > - LC is extremely important to me as a hobby
> > - Have created hundreds of tools, utilities, simulations, fun things
> just for shear enjoyment and mental exercise
> > - Have frequent internet problems that interfere with cloud computing
> > - Have participated in every fundraising campagne
> > - Frequently contributed to Example Stacks including Alien Civilization
> Detection simulation
> >
> > I beg you, Kevin, don’t take this away from us
> >
> > Roger
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From jbv at souslelogo.com  Fri Aug  2 12:47:12 2024
From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com)
Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2024 12:47:12 -0400
Subject: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND 2027!
In-Reply-To: <166DF444-03E5-4A23-9AE8-8219F0408B5D@livecode.com>
References: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>
 <FBBF2716-8A79-4B3B-8DD8-17A054BF188E@mac.com>
 <900b4b3c1e2f090b6a0c7ac6923b6804@souslelogo.com>
 <166DF444-03E5-4A23-9AE8-8219F0408B5D@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <a816d70fc3bd44cbf951216e730cf6a4@souslelogo.com>

Heather,

I know you suggested a zoom meeting before announcing the new pricing 
plans, but
we were unable to proceed, mainly because I was really busy with the 
server transfer
for our on-rev accounts and all the troubles it caused to my clients 
with their apps
and all the little adjustments that needed to be made.
Besides I needed to check how my clients would react to the new pricing 
plans before
making any decision, and only 2 days ago I was able to find the time to 
check how
much it really meant.
Last but not least, it is very nice of you to offer the possibility of a 
workaround,
but I guess any solution will only be a short-term one, and I need a 
solution for
the many years to come.

jbv

Le 2024-08-02 11:57, Heather Laine via use-livecode a crit :
> Or you could explain your problem to us directly, as Kevin has asked a 
> couple of times already on this list and we can see what we can do.
> 
> You have an open ticket in support. You have not as yet told me that 
> the new pricing is unaffordable for you.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On 2 Aug 2024, at 16:13, jbv via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Same here.
>> 
>> I have been into hypertalk since the 1st version of HC.
>> 
>> I have 2 desktop apps for 2 different clients that I maintain, and in 
>> each one
>> the part developed with LC Classic is just a front end for sending 
>> requests to
>> the server and displaying the incoming data. In both cases 80% of the 
>> tasks is
>> done server side with LC on 2 on-rev accounts.
>> I know for certain that none of my clients will accept to pay for 
>> per-seats
>> license.
>> 
>> So I have 2 options so far :
>> - paying myself for these licenses, which I can't afford
>> - rewrite the front-end of both apps with html/js and forget about LC.
>> 
>> jbv
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From kevin at stallibrass.com  Fri Aug  2 12:50:18 2024
From: kevin at stallibrass.com (Kevin Stallibrass)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 17:50:18 +0100
Subject: Livecode Future
Message-ID: <3B29DBC2-1DC4-4DAA-A835-4EA299B378FC@stallibrass.com>

Retiree’s comments:
I started with runtime revolution v1 when it was included on a PC Pro magazine all those years ago and immediately built my first program which was a neat utility (in 4 languages) which was used by my company. No fee, plenty cudos.

Continued using Runrev over the years to build tools for myself. Cudos from family and friends

Got a commercial licence when I created my only ‘big’ app which worked on PC’s, Macs, Android, & iOS, all talking to a Livecode server. Even included  an iOS push notification server running on Rpi which was featured in the last RevUp newsletter.
Plenty cudos from company, no payment but avoided a redundancy round and got a free holiday for me and my wife in a swanky villa in the Med.

Favorite app was for iPad ( talking to server) which really helped our sales force - and phoned home when they used it.
Super cudos avoiding the next round of redundancies.

When that company finally folded, I reverted back to the community licence and built a few things for myself and family.

Long, boring story I know but the point i’d like to make is that Runrev enabled me to start coding. They supported me through commercial licence and community freebee’s

I’m retired but still grateful for what the Runrev team has enabled me to do. Thanks for your support Kevin and I sincerely hope you get through this change and continue to help people as stupid as myself succeed.



Regards
Kevin Stallibrass
Sent from my iPhone

> On 2 Aug 2024, at 17:01, use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:
> 
> Send use-livecode mailing list submissions to
>   use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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> You can reach the person managing the list at
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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> 
> and search them using this link:
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> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>  1. Late arrival to LiveCode Future (and possibly early leaver!)
>     (Ben Rubinstein)
>  2. Re: Late arrival to LiveCode Future (and possibly early
>     leaver!) (Kenji Kojima)
>  3. By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND
>     2027! (Curry Kenworthy)
>  4. Re: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs
>     BEYOND 2027! (Kaveh Bazargan)
>  5. Re: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs
>     BEYOND 2027! (Roger Guay)
>  6. Re: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs
>     BEYOND 2027! (jbv at souslelogo.com)
>  7. Re: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs
>     BEYOND 2027! (Bob Sneidar)
>  8. Re: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs
>     BEYOND 2027! (jbv at souslelogo.com)
>  9. Re: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs
>     BEYOND 2027! (Mike Kerner)
> 10. Re: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs
>     BEYOND 2027! (Heather Laine)
> 11. Re: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs
>     BEYOND 2027! (Heather Laine)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 08:22:00 +0100
> From: Ben Rubinstein <benr_mc at cogapp.com>
> To: Use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: Late arrival to LiveCode Future (and possibly early leaver!)
> Message-ID: <48549626-1050-46d4-a581-248870345cf8 at cogapp.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> 
> I've been away, in various senses, and only just read about all this.
> 
> I have enormous respect for Kevin and LiveCode.
> 
> I've been using the product since it was Metacard, and Revolution (as it was
> then) was an enormous upgrade. The first bug I reported in the quality control
> centre was over 20 years ago (was there another system before then? I don't
> recall anymore). (And indeed the 64th report I made, marked as CONFIRMED but
> still not actioned, that I'd still like, was reported over 20 years ago... ?).
> 
> I've used it to make tools for myself, a lot; tools for my colleagues a bit;
> tools for clients a bit. Mostly now it's tools for myself, which very rarely
> get built into standalones; but I still maintain a few tools for clients.
> 
> As the world developed over the decades, I feared for Kevin's company,
> whatever it was variously called. I felt that they were pursuing an almost
> impossible mission, maintaining and extending an extremely niche language
> across multiple platforms - having to persuade potential clients to buy a
> language before they could try to persuade them to buy a product. I supported
> most or all of the various fundraisers, sometimes with my company's money but
> more often with my own, even for developments I'm not interested in like HTML
> and Xavvi; in solidarity. I'm sorry that the open source experiment didn't
> work out, I'm sorry that the Filemaker idea didn't work out.
> 
> I am frankly surprised, and deeply impressed, that they have survived this
> long. It is a tribute to their tenacity and agility.
> 
> They have the right to take the company and product in whatever direction they
> think will produce the best result, and I wish them all the best luck in the
> world.
> 
> Having said all that:
> 
> - Create is not for me.
> 
> - I'll keep using Classic while I can
> 
> - Please put everything we to need know in text - I can't watch videos*
> 
> - Three things I don't yet know:
>   - Is Classic changing in any way - e.g. will standalones phone home?
>   - Classic supported to 2025 - is that Jan 1 2027, or Dec 31 2027?
>   - When Classic goes EOL, will it stop working, or just not receive updates
> for new OS, app store rules etc?
> 
> Thanks and all the best,
> 
> Ben
> 
> 
> * doc hawk wrote (01/08/2024):
>> You say the as if expecting someone to view a video to get information
> wasn?t an act of Evil . . . :)
> 
> - and probably against DDA/ADA/EA
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 05:59:25 -0400
> From: Kenji Kojima <index at kenjikojima.com>
> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: Re: Late arrival to LiveCode Future (and possibly early
>   leaver!)
> Message-ID: <52B83FC8-17BB-4AE1-BDE9-C84A39126005 at kenjikojima.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=utf-8
> 
> I agree Ben.
> 
> I've used it to make tools for myself
> - Create is not for me.
> - I'll keep using Classic while I can
> - Please put everything we to need know in text
> - I can't watch videos*
> 
> Best,
> --
> Kenji Kojima / ????
> http://www.kenjikojima.com/
> 
> 
> 
>> On Aug 2, 2024, at 3:22?AM, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> I've been away, in various senses, and only just read about all this.
>> I have enormous respect for Kevin and LiveCode.
>> I've been using the product since it was Metacard, and Revolution (as it was then) was an enormous upgrade. The first bug I reported in the quality control centre was over 20 years ago (was there another system before then? I don't recall anymore). (And indeed the 64th report I made, marked as CONFIRMED but still not actioned, that I'd still like, was reported over 20 years ago... ?).
>> I've used it to make tools for myself, a lot; tools for my colleagues a bit; tools for clients a bit. Mostly now it's tools for myself, which very rarely get built into standalones; but I still maintain a few tools for clients.
>> As the world developed over the decades, I feared for Kevin's company, whatever it was variously called. I felt that they were pursuing an almost impossible mission, maintaining and extending an extremely niche language across multiple platforms - having to persuade potential clients to buy a language before they could try to persuade them to buy a product. I supported most or all of the various fundraisers, sometimes with my company's money but more often with my own, even for developments I'm not interested in like HTML and Xavvi; in solidarity. I'm sorry that the open source experiment didn't work out, I'm sorry that the Filemaker idea didn't work out.
>> I am frankly surprised, and deeply impressed, that they have survived this long. It is a tribute to their tenacity and agility.
>> They have the right to take the company and product in whatever direction they think will produce the best result, and I wish them all the best luck in the world.
>> Having said all that:
>> - Create is not for me.
>> - I'll keep using Classic while I can
>> - Please put everything we to need know in text - I can't watch videos*
>> - Three things I don't yet know:
>> - Is Classic changing in any way - e.g. will standalones phone home?
>> - Classic supported to 2025 - is that Jan 1 2027, or Dec 31 2027?
>> - When Classic goes EOL, will it stop working, or just not receive updates for new OS, app store rules etc?
>> Thanks and all the best,
>> Ben
>> * doc hawk wrote (01/08/2024):
>>> You say the as if expecting someone to view a video to get information wasn?t an act of Evil . . . :)
>> - and probably against DDA/ADA/EA
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 10:31:16 -0400
> From: Curry Kenworthy <curry at pair.com>
> To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND
>   2027!
> Message-ID: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5 at pair.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> 
> 
> Everyone I know wants to keep using LC Classic for a while.
> Most people still want it. Read this list. LC Classic is popular!
> 
> Launching LC 10 as DOA or a 'lame duck' makes little sense.
> LC 9 and 10 are still heavily in demand under the old terms.
> 
> (I'm not against progress; in fact, before Create was announced ...
> I knew of at least 3 independent next-gen projects for LiveCode.
> Including my own! None would have cost $ millions, but anyway. :)
> Make a smoother, friendlier LiveCode transition for best results.)
> 
> So, how long can we access the bona fide LC 9 and 10 Classic IDEs?
> Given the widespread demand - Through end of 2028? 2029? 2030?
> For all those of us who keep existing subscriptions, at least.
> And maintain LC 10 platform support for that duration.
> 
> (Old licensing terms for app builds created with them, of course.)
> 
> Kudos to all those thinking the same thing, and speaking up!
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Curry Kenworthy
> 
> Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
> "PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
> https://livecodeconsulting.com/
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 15:51:14 +0100
> From: Kaveh Bazargan <kaveh at rivervalley.io>
> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Cc: Curry Kenworthy <curry at pair.com>
> Subject: Re: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs
>   BEYOND 2027!
> Message-ID:
>   <CAJ2R9pgg_p6Hi4eDiTssm_Pn9DyjCNjJD4iRBjCsor=K0bUDHA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> 
> I've been half following the recent tweets but just don't have the mental
> capacity to keep up.
> 
> FYI I used HyperCard since it was Beta and no manual!! I really commend
> what Kevin and team have done to keep the world's most friendly programming
> environment going. I wish I could just pay for LiveCode and use it. I am
> guessing that is what Classic is. But perhaps I am just getting too old!
> 
> Regards
> Kaveh
> 
> On Fri, 2 Aug 2024 at 15:32, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Everyone I know wants to keep using LC Classic for a while.
>> Most people still want it. Read this list. LC Classic is popular!
>> Launching LC 10 as DOA or a 'lame duck' makes little sense.
>> LC 9 and 10 are still heavily in demand under the old terms.
>> (I'm not against progress; in fact, before Create was announced ...
>> I knew of at least 3 independent next-gen projects for LiveCode.
>> Including my own! None would have cost $ millions, but anyway. :)
>> Make a smoother, friendlier LiveCode transition for best results.)
>> So, how long can we access the bona fide LC 9 and 10 Classic IDEs?
>> Given the widespread demand - Through end of 2028? 2029? 2030?
>> For all those of us who keep existing subscriptions, at least.
>> And maintain LC 10 platform support for that duration.
>> (Old licensing terms for app builds created with them, of course.)
>> Kudos to all those thinking the same thing, and speaking up!
>> Best wishes,
>> Curry Kenworthy
>> Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
>> "PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
>> https://livecodeconsulting.com/
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> --
> Kaveh Bazargan PhD
> Director
> River Valley Technologies <http://rivervalley.io> ? Twitter
> <https://twitter.com/rivervalley1000> ? LinkedIn
> <https://www.linkedin.com/in/bazargankaveh/> ? ORCID
> <https://orcid.org/0000-0002-1414-9098> ? @kaveh1000 at mastodon.social
> <https://mastodon.social/@kaveh1000>
> *Accelerating the Communication of Research*
> 
> *
> <https://www.linkedin.com/posts/bazargankaveh_ismte-innovation-award-recipient-kaveh-bazargan-activity-7039348552526921728-XAEB/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop>
> [image:
> https://rivervalley.io/gigabyte-wins-the-alpsp-scholarly-publishing-innovation-award-using-river-valleys-publishing-technology/]
> <https://rivervalley.io/gigabyte-wins-the-alpsp-scholarly-publishing-innovation-award-using-river-valleys-publishing-technology/>*
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 07:59:43 -0700
> From: Roger Guay <irog at mac.com>
> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: Re: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs
>   BEYOND 2027!
> Message-ID: <FBBF2716-8A79-4B3B-8DD8-17A054BF188E at mac.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=utf-8
> 
> I too am in the "Clasic Is For Me Crowd?
> 
> - Been here since Metacard
> - Use LC strictly as a hobby
> - LC is extremely important to me as a hobby
> - Have created hundreds of tools, utilities, simulations, fun things just for shear enjoyment and mental exercise
> - Have frequent internet problems that interfere with cloud computing
> - Have participated in every fundraising campagne
> - Frequently contributed to Example Stacks including Alien Civilization Detection simulation
> 
> I beg you, Kevin, don?t take this away from us
> 
> Roger
> 
>> On Aug 2, 2024, at 7:31?AM, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> Everyone I know wants to keep using LC Classic for a while.
>> Most people still want it. Read this list. LC Classic is popular!
>> Launching LC 10 as DOA or a 'lame duck' makes little sense.
>> LC 9 and 10 are still heavily in demand under the old terms.
>> (I'm not against progress; in fact, before Create was announced ...
>> I knew of at least 3 independent next-gen projects for LiveCode.
>> Including my own! None would have cost $ millions, but anyway. :)
>> Make a smoother, friendlier LiveCode transition for best results.)
>> So, how long can we access the bona fide LC 9 and 10 Classic IDEs?
>> Given the widespread demand - Through end of 2028? 2029? 2030?
>> For all those of us who keep existing subscriptions, at least.
>> And maintain LC 10 platform support for that duration.
>> (Old licensing terms for app builds created with them, of course.)
>> Kudos to all those thinking the same thing, and speaking up!
>> Best wishes,
>> Curry Kenworthy
>> Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
>> "PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
>> https://livecodeconsulting.com/
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2024 11:13:05 -0400
> From: jbv at souslelogo.com
> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: Re: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs
>   BEYOND 2027!
> Message-ID: <900b4b3c1e2f090b6a0c7ac6923b6804 at souslelogo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
> 
> Same here.
> 
> I have been into hypertalk since the 1st version of HC.
> 
> I have 2 desktop apps for 2 different clients that I maintain, and in
> each one
> the part developed with LC Classic is just a front end for sending
> requests to
> the server and displaying the incoming data. In both cases 80% of the
> tasks is
> done server side with LC on 2 on-rev accounts.
> I know for certain that none of my clients will accept to pay for
> per-seats
> license.
> 
> So I have 2 options so far :
> - paying myself for these licenses, which I can't afford
> - rewrite the front-end of both apps with html/js and forget about LC.
> 
> jbv
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 15:17:42 +0000
> From: Bob Sneidar <bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com>
> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: Re: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs
>   BEYOND 2027!
> Message-ID: <66C12BFE-0D1D-4FBB-8C9F-EFFCC1CB225A at iotecdigital.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Kevin has clearly made the point that it has become financially untenable to continue with the classic licensing model. You cannot mean that you want him to go bankrupt so that you can maintain your hobby! You are asking him for what he cannot give. It only remains then for all of us to decide what we can and cannot accept.
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
> On Aug 2, 2024, at 7:59 AM, Roger Guay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I too am in the "Clasic Is For Me Crowd?
> 
> - Been here since Metacard
> - Use LC strictly as a hobby
> - LC is extremely important to me as a hobby
> - Have created hundreds of tools, utilities, simulations, fun things just for shear enjoyment and mental exercise
> - Have frequent internet problems that interfere with cloud computing
> - Have participated in every fundraising campagne
> - Frequently contributed to Example Stacks including Alien Civilization Detection simulation
> 
> I beg you, Kevin, don?t take this away from us
> 
> Roger
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 8
> Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2024 11:33:15 -0400
> From: jbv at souslelogo.com
> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: Re: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs
>   BEYOND 2027!
> Message-ID: <95268c465ed573c8adb5cc69916a5435 at souslelogo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> 
> Le 2024-08-02 11:17, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode a ?crit?:
>> You cannot mean that you want him to go bankrupt
> 
> Of course not, but neither me or my clients want to go bankrupt.
> My clients have already paid for the deployment of their apps and they
> are also paying when some cosmetic changes need to be done.
> They don't see why they should also pay for using the apps,
> especially because they work in some niche markets where any
> additional cost is difficult to handle.
> 
> Paying licenses for using Photoshop or dropbox is different,
> because one didn't pay anything for the deployment of those apps.
> I hope I am making myself clear despite my poor english.
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 9
> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 11:35:22 -0400
> From: Mike Kerner <MikeKerner at roadrunner.com>
> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: Re: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs
>   BEYOND 2027!
> Message-ID:
>   <CADCoycOJeJYYzPQLBt00vga06d9xnQRw4Nj+0Ka9Nx2CRay2QA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> 
> as i have previously said, the new pricing ($440 per deployed device) is
> untenable for my companies. we won't pay 4d for their REST licenses (for a
> much more complete product), either.
> we are starting to actively search for alternatives.
> if the pricing does not change to something that is actually reasonable,
> we're out.
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 10
> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 16:57:11 +0100
> From: Heather Laine <heather at livecode.com>
> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: Re: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs
>   BEYOND 2027!
> Message-ID: <166DF444-03E5-4A23-9AE8-8219F0408B5D at livecode.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=us-ascii
> 
> Or you could explain your problem to us directly, as Kevin has asked a couple of times already on this list and we can see what we can do.
> 
> You have an open ticket in support. You have not as yet told me that the new pricing is unaffordable for you.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On 2 Aug 2024, at 16:13, jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> Same here.
>> I have been into hypertalk since the 1st version of HC.
>> I have 2 desktop apps for 2 different clients that I maintain, and in each one
>> the part developed with LC Classic is just a front end for sending requests to
>> the server and displaying the incoming data. In both cases 80% of the tasks is
>> done server side with LC on 2 on-rev accounts.
>> I know for certain that none of my clients will accept to pay for per-seats
>> license.
>> So I have 2 options so far :
>> - paying myself for these licenses, which I can't afford
>> - rewrite the front-end of both apps with html/js and forget about LC.
>> jbv
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 11
> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 16:58:06 +0100
> From: Heather Laine <heather at livecode.com>
> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: Re: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs
>   BEYOND 2027!
> Message-ID: <C787C2B2-0F41-4350-B92C-EE7A74F2676F at livecode.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=us-ascii
> 
> Mike. We asked you to talk to us before the pricing went public. Kevin has reiterated the request that clients with issues get in touch. I once again extend that invitation to you.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On 2 Aug 2024, at 16:35, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> as i have previously said, the new pricing ($440 per deployed device) is
>> untenable for my companies. we won't pay 4d for their REST licenses (for a
>> much more complete product), either.
>> we are starting to actively search for alternatives.
>> if the pricing does not change to something that is actually reasonable,
>> we're out.
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Subject: Digest Footer
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> End of use-livecode Digest, Vol 251, Issue 2
> ********************************************



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Aug  2 12:55:53 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 16:55:53 +0000
Subject: Livecode Future
In-Reply-To: <3B29DBC2-1DC4-4DAA-A835-4EA299B378FC@stallibrass.com>
References: <3B29DBC2-1DC4-4DAA-A835-4EA299B378FC@stallibrass.com>
Message-ID: <2005282E-8BB9-496F-A6AE-2CFBF029EB88@iotecdigital.com>

+1

On Aug 2, 2024, at 9:50 AM, Kevin Stallibrass via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

Retiree’s comments:
I started with runtime revolution v1 when it was included on a PC Pro magazine all those years ago and immediately built my first program which was a neat utility (in 4 languages) which was used by my company. No fee, plenty cudos.

Continued using Runrev over the years to build tools for myself. Cudos from family and friends

Got a commercial licence when I created my only ‘big’ app which worked on PC’s, Macs, Android, & iOS, all talking to a Livecode server. Even included  an iOS push notification server running on Rpi which was featured in the last RevUp newsletter.
Plenty cudos from company, no payment but avoided a redundancy round and got a free holiday for me and my wife in a swanky villa in the Med.

Favorite app was for iPad ( talking to server) which really helped our sales force - and phoned home when they used it.
Super cudos avoiding the next round of redundancies.

When that company finally folded, I reverted back to the community licence and built a few things for myself and family.

Long, boring story I know but the point i’d like to make is that Runrev enabled me to start coding. They supported me through commercial licence and community freebee’s

I’m retired but still grateful for what the Runrev team has enabled me to do. Thanks for your support Kevin and I sincerely hope you get through this change and continue to help people as stupid as myself succeed.



Regards
Kevin Stallibrass
Sent from my iPhone


From heather at livecode.com  Fri Aug  2 13:05:55 2024
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 18:05:55 +0100
Subject: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND 2027!
In-Reply-To: <a816d70fc3bd44cbf951216e730cf6a4@souslelogo.com>
References: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>
 <FBBF2716-8A79-4B3B-8DD8-17A054BF188E@mac.com>
 <900b4b3c1e2f090b6a0c7ac6923b6804@souslelogo.com>
 <166DF444-03E5-4A23-9AE8-8219F0408B5D@livecode.com>
 <a816d70fc3bd44cbf951216e730cf6a4@souslelogo.com>
Message-ID: <426E35CC-7162-4172-B48F-33F2F371186A@livecode.com>

Well lets discuss that. Off list.

I'm done for the weekend now and we have a holiday on Monday in Scotland, so I'lll come back to you on Tuesday with some thoughts.

Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 2 Aug 2024, at 17:47, jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Heather,
> 
> I know you suggested a zoom meeting before announcing the new pricing plans, but
> we were unable to proceed, mainly because I was really busy with the server transfer
> for our on-rev accounts and all the troubles it caused to my clients with their apps
> and all the little adjustments that needed to be made.
> Besides I needed to check how my clients would react to the new pricing plans before
> making any decision, and only 2 days ago I was able to find the time to check how
> much it really meant.
> Last but not least, it is very nice of you to offer the possibility of a workaround,
> but I guess any solution will only be a short-term one, and I need a solution for
> the many years to come.
> 
> jbv
> 
> Le 2024-08-02 11:57, Heather Laine via use-livecode a écrit :
>> Or you could explain your problem to us directly, as Kevin has asked a couple of times already on this list and we can see what we can do.
>> You have an open ticket in support. You have not as yet told me that the new pricing is unaffordable for you.
>> Best Regards,
>> Heather
>> Heather Laine
>> Customer Services Manager
>> LiveCode Ltd
>> www.livecode.com
>>> On 2 Aug 2024, at 16:13, jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> Same here.
>>> I have been into hypertalk since the 1st version of HC.
>>> I have 2 desktop apps for 2 different clients that I maintain, and in each one
>>> the part developed with LC Classic is just a front end for sending requests to
>>> the server and displaying the incoming data. In both cases 80% of the tasks is
>>> done server side with LC on 2 on-rev accounts.
>>> I know for certain that none of my clients will accept to pay for per-seats
>>> license.
>>> So I have 2 options so far :
>>> - paying myself for these licenses, which I can't afford
>>> - rewrite the front-end of both apps with html/js and forget about LC.
>>> jbv
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From heather at livecode.com  Fri Aug  2 13:10:15 2024
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 18:10:15 +0100
Subject: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND 2027!
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycPo9Z53HkYD3Tz0zwJDDVytdnz2=UVKAfjY_hF0Bck-yg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>
 <FBBF2716-8A79-4B3B-8DD8-17A054BF188E@mac.com>
 <66C12BFE-0D1D-4FBB-8C9F-EFFCC1CB225A@iotecdigital.com>
 <952B8915-8D46-435A-92D8-F0D6A7EF21EF@mac.com>
 <CADCoycPo9Z53HkYD3Tz0zwJDDVytdnz2=UVKAfjY_hF0Bck-yg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2EE82B11-A48B-409C-91D2-DAB7A7659776@livecode.com>

I understand busy. Sometimes we are so busy chopping down trees we cannot see the wood.

You have a specific situation. The people on this list cannot help you resolve it. Talking about it on this list and indeed reading the long conversations on this list is using up your precious time. Maybe taking half an hour to talk about it direct with us would resolve it and potentially save you... I have no idea how long rewriting your apps. 

But its entirely up to you.

Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 2 Aug 2024, at 17:21, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> heather, as i told you, at the time, i am busy running multiple companies.
> i don't have time for pitches.
> i asked for you to send me the information so that i could review it, ahead
> of a call. that request was declined.
> if the pricing remains untenable, we will be rewriting apps and exiting.
> 
> 
> On Fri, Aug 2, 2024 at 12:01 PM Roger Guay via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> If this is the conclusion that you come to, then I failed to make my case.
>> Sorry!
>> 
>> I thank Kevin for keeping this amazing tool going for so many years and
>> want him to succeed in the future.
>> 
>> Roger
>> 
>>> On Aug 2, 2024, at 8:17 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> You cannot mean that you want him to go bankrupt so that you can
>> maintain your hobby!
>> 
>> 
>>> On Aug 2, 2024, at 8:17 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Kevin has clearly made the point that it has become financially
>> untenable to continue with the classic licensing model. You cannot mean
>> that you want him to go bankrupt so that you can maintain your hobby! You
>> are asking him for what he cannot give. It only remains then for all of us
>> to decide what we can and cannot accept.
>>> 
>>> Bob S
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Aug 2, 2024, at 7:59 AM, Roger Guay via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I too am in the "Clasic Is For Me Crowd”
>>> 
>>> - Been here since Metacard
>>> - Use LC strictly as a hobby
>>> - LC is extremely important to me as a hobby
>>> - Have created hundreds of tools, utilities, simulations, fun things
>> just for shear enjoyment and mental exercise
>>> - Have frequent internet problems that interfere with cloud computing
>>> - Have participated in every fundraising campagne
>>> - Frequently contributed to Example Stacks including Alien Civilization
>> Detection simulation
>>> 
>>> I beg you, Kevin, don’t take this away from us
>>> 
>>> Roger
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>   and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Aug  2 13:20:54 2024
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2024 12:20:54 -0500
Subject: Individual licensing questions
In-Reply-To: <DE13B361-EC9A-4646-BF11-29E956E6045F@exformedia.se>
References: <7F21E930-DFAB-4041-A7E2-C0B4ADB70DC2@livecode.com>
 <190f003b830.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <DE13B361-EC9A-4646-BF11-29E956E6045F@exformedia.se>
Message-ID: <191141bd4f0.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

I don't think so. These apps are bespoke apps (a lovely word not seen often 
in the US.) This from the FAQ:

"I create apps for other companies and sell services to those companies as 
a consultancy service to create them"
"You need one license for each developer of the app. The company you 
developed the software for needs an Internal app license for each user if 
the app is used internally."

On the other hand, a single retired user is not a company. When the time 
comes I will contact LC support. We have 3 years to decide.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On August 2, 2024 11:15:59 AM Hkan Liljegren via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hmm, wouldnt this count in the other tier as you sell your app, thus you 
> should pay 5% of $75? $3.75
>
> :-Hkan
>
>> 26 juli 2024 kl. 19:08 skrev J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>
>> I hope this is generic enough.
>>
>> I have several clients who use apps I created just for them, 20 years ago 
>> or more. Frequently these are converted HyperCard stacks like address books 
>> or recipe files. The apps are personal and no one else uses them. Every 2 
>> or 3 years they contact me because the app stops working, usually due to an 
>> incompatible OS update. I recompile the app, and sometimes make a few 
>> requested tweaks. Since a compile takes only a few minutes, and because I 
>> know these people personally, I charge almost nothing for these services. 
>> My last invoice for a rebuild and a minor change was $75.
>>
>> I do not want to tell them that they will need to spend hundreds of dollars 
>> more for a one time minor update. They will not want a subscription because 
>> it's years between changes. And because they are not companies and many are 
>> now retired, paying hundreds of dollars to maintain an address book is not 
>> feasible. I am very sensitive to their budget requirements.
>>
>> I'd like to propose a floor under which no royalty or subscription is 
>> required. A minimum charge of, say, $500 would yield $25 to LC at the 5% 
>> rate. A charge of $1000 would yield $50.
>>
>> --
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>> On July 26, 2024 6:04:30 AM Kevin Miller via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Folks, I'm happy to go on discussing the licensing model in general on here 
>>> as needed, for example edge cases or things that arent clear in the model, 
>>> as it helps us to hone it. But at this point if you have individual 
>>> questions about the costs for you under the new model, please email them to 
>>> support and we can give you an accurate quote and talk you through your 
>>> options. Otherwise we are going to be going over the same territory here on 
>>> the list for some time to come! Well build out the information pages some 
>>> more worked examples next week too. Thanks.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Kevin
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Kevin Miller ~ kevin at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
>>>
>>> LiveCode: Build Amazing Things
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Fri Aug  2 13:34:11 2024
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 13:34:11 -0400
Subject: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND 2027!
In-Reply-To: <2EE82B11-A48B-409C-91D2-DAB7A7659776@livecode.com>
References: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>
 <FBBF2716-8A79-4B3B-8DD8-17A054BF188E@mac.com>
 <66C12BFE-0D1D-4FBB-8C9F-EFFCC1CB225A@iotecdigital.com>
 <952B8915-8D46-435A-92D8-F0D6A7EF21EF@mac.com>
 <CADCoycPo9Z53HkYD3Tz0zwJDDVytdnz2=UVKAfjY_hF0Bck-yg@mail.gmail.com>
 <2EE82B11-A48B-409C-91D2-DAB7A7659776@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycNnG5bNL_GG7z6eB7VkQ3Z45fANBNrjirxQkWwvhUVGEA@mail.gmail.com>

sunlight is the greatest disinfectant.
these are conversations that should be held in the open.

On Fri, Aug 2, 2024 at 1:10 PM Heather Laine via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I understand busy. Sometimes we are so busy chopping down trees we cannot
> see the wood.
>
> You have a specific situation. The people on this list cannot help you
> resolve it. Talking about it on this list and indeed reading the long
> conversations on this list is using up your precious time. Maybe taking
> half an hour to talk about it direct with us would resolve it and
> potentially save you... I have no idea how long rewriting your apps.
>
> But its entirely up to you.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Heather
>
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
>
>
>
> > On 2 Aug 2024, at 17:21, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > heather, as i told you, at the time, i am busy running multiple
> companies.
> > i don't have time for pitches.
> > i asked for you to send me the information so that i could review it,
> ahead
> > of a call. that request was declined.
> > if the pricing remains untenable, we will be rewriting apps and exiting.
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 2, 2024 at 12:01 PM Roger Guay via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >> If this is the conclusion that you come to, then I failed to make my
> case.
> >> Sorry!
> >>
> >> I thank Kevin for keeping this amazing tool going for so many years and
> >> want him to succeed in the future.
> >>
> >> Roger
> >>
> >>> On Aug 2, 2024, at 8:17 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> You cannot mean that you want him to go bankrupt so that you can
> >> maintain your hobby!
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Aug 2, 2024, at 8:17 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Kevin has clearly made the point that it has become financially
> >> untenable to continue with the classic licensing model. You cannot mean
> >> that you want him to go bankrupt so that you can maintain your hobby!
> You
> >> are asking him for what he cannot give. It only remains then for all of
> us
> >> to decide what we can and cannot accept.
> >>>
> >>> Bob S
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Aug 2, 2024, at 7:59 AM, Roger Guay via use-livecode <
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I too am in the "Clasic Is For Me Crowd”
> >>>
> >>> - Been here since Metacard
> >>> - Use LC strictly as a hobby
> >>> - LC is extremely important to me as a hobby
> >>> - Have created hundreds of tools, utilities, simulations, fun things
> >> just for shear enjoyment and mental exercise
> >>> - Have frequent internet problems that interfere with cloud computing
> >>> - Have participated in every fundraising campagne
> >>> - Frequently contributed to Example Stacks including Alien Civilization
> >> Detection simulation
> >>>
> >>> I beg you, Kevin, don’t take this away from us
> >>>
> >>> Roger
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> use-livecode mailing list
> >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
> >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> > On the second day, God created the oceans.
> > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
> >   and did a little diving.
> > And God said, "This is good."
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From heather at livecode.com  Fri Aug  2 13:45:18 2024
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 18:45:18 +0100
Subject: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND 2027!
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycNnG5bNL_GG7z6eB7VkQ3Z45fANBNrjirxQkWwvhUVGEA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>
 <FBBF2716-8A79-4B3B-8DD8-17A054BF188E@mac.com>
 <66C12BFE-0D1D-4FBB-8C9F-EFFCC1CB225A@iotecdigital.com>
 <952B8915-8D46-435A-92D8-F0D6A7EF21EF@mac.com>
 <CADCoycPo9Z53HkYD3Tz0zwJDDVytdnz2=UVKAfjY_hF0Bck-yg@mail.gmail.com>
 <2EE82B11-A48B-409C-91D2-DAB7A7659776@livecode.com>
 <CADCoycNnG5bNL_GG7z6eB7VkQ3Z45fANBNrjirxQkWwvhUVGEA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2886F419-5616-4935-9534-3AF9A8E18B74@livecode.com>

I don't know what you think we are trying to hide.

Do you want to discuss your annual takings on this list? Or the number and needs of your clients? I don't think its relevant to the readers here nor any of their business. We've explained the new licensing, exhaustively. We've said we want to help existing customers. We've said there is a program to help you migrate, on a case by case basis. 

If you want to take us up on that, please do. If not, well  that is your decision. 

Please take this off list. This thread is not helpful and its time for it to stop.

Best Regards,

Heather
List mom. On the Use LiveCode list.


Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 2 Aug 2024, at 18:34, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> sunlight is the greatest disinfectant.
> these are conversations that should be held in the open.
> 
> On Fri, Aug 2, 2024 at 1:10 PM Heather Laine via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> I understand busy. Sometimes we are so busy chopping down trees we cannot
>> see the wood.
>> 
>> You have a specific situation. The people on this list cannot help you
>> resolve it. Talking about it on this list and indeed reading the long
>> conversations on this list is using up your precious time. Maybe taking
>> half an hour to talk about it direct with us would resolve it and
>> potentially save you... I have no idea how long rewriting your apps.
>> 
>> But its entirely up to you.
>> 
>> Best Regards,
>> 
>> Heather
>> 
>> Heather Laine
>> Customer Services Manager
>> LiveCode Ltd
>> www.livecode.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 2 Aug 2024, at 17:21, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> heather, as i told you, at the time, i am busy running multiple
>> companies.
>>> i don't have time for pitches.
>>> i asked for you to send me the information so that i could review it,
>> ahead
>>> of a call. that request was declined.
>>> if the pricing remains untenable, we will be rewriting apps and exiting.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Aug 2, 2024 at 12:01 PM Roger Guay via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> If this is the conclusion that you come to, then I failed to make my
>> case.
>>>> Sorry!
>>>> 
>>>> I thank Kevin for keeping this amazing tool going for so many years and
>>>> want him to succeed in the future.
>>>> 
>>>> Roger
>>>> 
>>>>> On Aug 2, 2024, at 8:17 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> You cannot mean that you want him to go bankrupt so that you can
>>>> maintain your hobby!
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Aug 2, 2024, at 8:17 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Kevin has clearly made the point that it has become financially
>>>> untenable to continue with the classic licensing model. You cannot mean
>>>> that you want him to go bankrupt so that you can maintain your hobby!
>> You
>>>> are asking him for what he cannot give. It only remains then for all of
>> us
>>>> to decide what we can and cannot accept.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bob S
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Aug 2, 2024, at 7:59 AM, Roger Guay via use-livecode <
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I too am in the "Clasic Is For Me Crowd”
>>>>> 
>>>>> - Been here since Metacard
>>>>> - Use LC strictly as a hobby
>>>>> - LC is extremely important to me as a hobby
>>>>> - Have created hundreds of tools, utilities, simulations, fun things
>>>> just for shear enjoyment and mental exercise
>>>>> - Have frequent internet problems that interfere with cloud computing
>>>>> - Have participated in every fundraising campagne
>>>>> - Frequently contributed to Example Stacks including Alien Civilization
>>>> Detection simulation
>>>>> 
>>>>> I beg you, Kevin, don’t take this away from us
>>>>> 
>>>>> Roger
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
>>> On the second day, God created the oceans.
>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>>>  and did a little diving.
>>> And God said, "This is good."
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>   and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Aug  2 14:04:49 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 18:04:49 +0000
Subject: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND 2027!
In-Reply-To: <2886F419-5616-4935-9534-3AF9A8E18B74@livecode.com>
References: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>
 <FBBF2716-8A79-4B3B-8DD8-17A054BF188E@mac.com>
 <66C12BFE-0D1D-4FBB-8C9F-EFFCC1CB225A@iotecdigital.com>
 <952B8915-8D46-435A-92D8-F0D6A7EF21EF@mac.com>
 <CADCoycPo9Z53HkYD3Tz0zwJDDVytdnz2=UVKAfjY_hF0Bck-yg@mail.gmail.com>
 <2EE82B11-A48B-409C-91D2-DAB7A7659776@livecode.com>
 <CADCoycNnG5bNL_GG7z6eB7VkQ3Z45fANBNrjirxQkWwvhUVGEA@mail.gmail.com>
 <2886F419-5616-4935-9534-3AF9A8E18B74@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <AF335E88-F300-4B36-80B4-6BA333455A68@iotecdigital.com>

Yup. +100

> On Aug 2, 2024, at 10:45 AM, Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I don't know what you think we are trying to hide.
> 
> Do you want to discuss your annual takings on this list? Or the number and needs of your clients? I don't think its relevant to the readers here nor any of their business. We've explained the new licensing, exhaustively. We've said we want to help existing customers. We've said there is a program to help you migrate, on a case by case basis. 
> 
> If you want to take us up on that, please do. If not, well  that is your decision. 
> 
> Please take this off list. This thread is not helpful and its time for it to stop.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> List mom. On the Use LiveCode list.
> 
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On 2 Aug 2024, at 18:34, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> sunlight is the greatest disinfectant.
>> these are conversations that should be held in the open.
>> 
>> On Fri, Aug 2, 2024 at 1:10 PM Heather Laine via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I understand busy. Sometimes we are so busy chopping down trees we cannot
>>> see the wood.
>>> 
>>> You have a specific situation. The people on this list cannot help you
>>> resolve it. Talking about it on this list and indeed reading the long
>>> conversations on this list is using up your precious time. Maybe taking
>>> half an hour to talk about it direct with us would resolve it and
>>> potentially save you... I have no idea how long rewriting your apps.
>>> 
>>> But its entirely up to you.
>>> 
>>> Best Regards,
>>> 
>>> Heather
>>> 
>>> Heather Laine
>>> Customer Services Manager
>>> LiveCode Ltd
>>> www.livecode.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 2 Aug 2024, at 17:21, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> heather, as i told you, at the time, i am busy running multiple
>>> companies.
>>>> i don't have time for pitches.
>>>> i asked for you to send me the information so that i could review it,
>>> ahead
>>>> of a call. that request was declined.
>>>> if the pricing remains untenable, we will be rewriting apps and exiting.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Fri, Aug 2, 2024 at 12:01 PM Roger Guay via use-livecode <
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> If this is the conclusion that you come to, then I failed to make my
>>> case.
>>>>> Sorry!
>>>>> 
>>>>> I thank Kevin for keeping this amazing tool going for so many years and
>>>>> want him to succeed in the future.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Roger
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Aug 2, 2024, at 8:17 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> You cannot mean that you want him to go bankrupt so that you can
>>>>> maintain your hobby!
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Aug 2, 2024, at 8:17 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Kevin has clearly made the point that it has become financially
>>>>> untenable to continue with the classic licensing model. You cannot mean
>>>>> that you want him to go bankrupt so that you can maintain your hobby!
>>> You
>>>>> are asking him for what he cannot give. It only remains then for all of
>>> us
>>>>> to decide what we can and cannot accept.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Bob S
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Aug 2, 2024, at 7:59 AM, Roger Guay via use-livecode <
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I too am in the "Clasic Is For Me Crowd”
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> - Been here since Metacard
>>>>>> - Use LC strictly as a hobby
>>>>>> - LC is extremely important to me as a hobby
>>>>>> - Have created hundreds of tools, utilities, simulations, fun things
>>>>> just for shear enjoyment and mental exercise
>>>>>> - Have frequent internet problems that interfere with cloud computing
>>>>>> - Have participated in every fundraising campagne
>>>>>> - Frequently contributed to Example Stacks including Alien Civilization
>>>>> Detection simulation
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I beg you, Kevin, don’t take this away from us
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Roger
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
>>>> On the second day, God created the oceans.
>>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>>>> and did a little diving.
>>>> And God said, "This is good."
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
>> On the second day, God created the oceans.
>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>>  and did a little diving.
>> And God said, "This is good."
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From paul at researchware.com  Fri Aug  2 15:18:09 2024
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 15:18:09 -0400
Subject: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND 2027!
In-Reply-To: <AF335E88-F300-4B36-80B4-6BA333455A68@iotecdigital.com>
References: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>
 <FBBF2716-8A79-4B3B-8DD8-17A054BF188E@mac.com>
 <66C12BFE-0D1D-4FBB-8C9F-EFFCC1CB225A@iotecdigital.com>
 <952B8915-8D46-435A-92D8-F0D6A7EF21EF@mac.com>
 <CADCoycPo9Z53HkYD3Tz0zwJDDVytdnz2=UVKAfjY_hF0Bck-yg@mail.gmail.com>
 <2EE82B11-A48B-409C-91D2-DAB7A7659776@livecode.com>
 <CADCoycNnG5bNL_GG7z6eB7VkQ3Z45fANBNrjirxQkWwvhUVGEA@mail.gmail.com>
 <2886F419-5616-4935-9534-3AF9A8E18B74@livecode.com>
 <AF335E88-F300-4B36-80B4-6BA333455A68@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <ba1e89d0-3537-498d-a38a-7f4acd5d17ad@researchware.com>

+100 also

On 8/2/2024 2:04 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
> Yup. +100
>
>> On Aug 2, 2024, at 10:45 AM, Heather Laine via use-livecode<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>  wrote:
>>
>> Please take this off list. This thread is not helpful and its time for it to stop.
>>
>>

From curry at pair.com  Mon Aug  5 19:51:04 2024
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2024 19:51:04 -0400
Subject: FAQ Clarification: Which end of 2027?
Message-ID: <d07730d4-17c3-47b5-99cb-1bb28726fc27@pair.com>

The current FAQ says:

- 'When are you ending support for LiveCode Classic? ... we will
maintain compatibility with supported operating systems until 2027.'

That wording is ambiguous. As Ben said:

 > is that Jan 1 2027, or Dec 31 2027?

That is significant - A difference of an entire year!
Can we get a clarification on that?

(This is a general, widely relevant fact in a public FAQ;
it is not only a personal and private account-specific issue.
I may indeed have account-specific or personal case follow-ups,
but it helps, and is standard, to have clear general facts first!)

All other references I see use similar wording:

- 'we haven't changed the licensing for the existing platform which you
can continue to use on the same terms up until its end of life in 2027.'

- 'If you have a current LiveCode license,
LiveCode Classic will continue until 2027'

(This is not a Classic vs Create topic. I enjoyed everyone's views.)

I hope all had a great weekend! :)

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
"PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
https://livecodeconsulting.com/


From tom at makeshyft.com  Mon Aug  5 20:45:00 2024
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2024 20:45:00 -0400
Subject: FAQ Clarification: Which end of 2027?
In-Reply-To: <d07730d4-17c3-47b5-99cb-1bb28726fc27@pair.com>
References: <d07730d4-17c3-47b5-99cb-1bb28726fc27@pair.com>
Message-ID: <CAPzQJL+ZfP17sU0s-kvz5v_n=QrwLz_wWhOVVEbF32WH8xgMyw@mail.gmail.com>

Maybe its your renewal date in 2027, whichever day it falls on.

On Mon, Aug 5, 2024 at 7:52 PM Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> The current FAQ says:
>
> - 'When are you ending support for LiveCode Classic? ... we will
> maintain compatibility with supported operating systems until 2027.'
>
> That wording is ambiguous. As Ben said:
>
>  > is that Jan 1 2027, or Dec 31 2027?
>
> That is significant - A difference of an entire year!
> Can we get a clarification on that?
>
> (This is a general, widely relevant fact in a public FAQ;
> it is not only a personal and private account-specific issue.
> I may indeed have account-specific or personal case follow-ups,
> but it helps, and is standard, to have clear general facts first!)
>
> All other references I see use similar wording:
>
> - 'we haven't changed the licensing for the existing platform which you
> can continue to use on the same terms up until its end of life in 2027.'
>
> - 'If you have a current LiveCode license,
> LiveCode Classic will continue until 2027'
>
> (This is not a Classic vs Create topic. I enjoyed everyone's views.)
>
> I hope all had a great weekend! :)
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Curry Kenworthy
>
> Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
> "PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
> https://livecodeconsulting.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From dfe4 at cornell.edu  Tue Aug  6 14:20:33 2024
From: dfe4 at cornell.edu (David Epstein)
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2024 14:20:33 -0400
Subject: Making controls less subtle
Message-ID: <3E51E333-A74A-4029-BC4A-813A5465503D@cornell.edu>

On my Mac, some LiveCode (10.0rc1) controls seem to me much too subtle, light gray where I would like there to be a distinct black line.  The  “slider” control looks to me as if it is disabled (although if I actually disable it, it gets even dimmer).  And the circle of the radio button, the rounded rectangle of a check box button, and the edges of an option button have this same light gray color.

Is there some way to change this?  

David Epstein


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Tue Aug  6 15:26:20 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2024 19:26:20 +0000
Subject: Making controls less subtle
In-Reply-To: <3E51E333-A74A-4029-BC4A-813A5465503D@cornell.edu>
References: <3E51E333-A74A-4029-BC4A-813A5465503D@cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <B3A1E1C1-44E1-4DFB-A8F4-0E92E179C73B@iotecdigital.com>

With the Widgets, probably not. They are supposed to comply with the interface standards of your OS, so if running Windows, try using a high contrast window setting, but you won’t like it. 

Bob S

> On Aug 6, 2024, at 11:20 AM, David Epstein via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> On my Mac, some LiveCode (10.0rc1) controls seem to me much too subtle, light gray where I would like there to be a distinct black line.  The  “slider” control looks to me as if it is disabled (although if I actually disable it, it gets even dimmer).  And the circle of the radio button, the rounded rectangle of a check box button, and the edges of an option button have this same light gray color.
> 
> Is there some way to change this?  
> 
> David Epstein
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From kevin at livecode.com  Wed Aug  7 05:12:25 2024
From: kevin at livecode.com (Kevin Miller)
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2024 10:12:25 +0100
Subject: FAQ Clarification: Which end of 2027?
In-Reply-To: <d07730d4-17c3-47b5-99cb-1bb28726fc27@pair.com>
References: <d07730d4-17c3-47b5-99cb-1bb28726fc27@pair.com>
Message-ID: <801446DC-D963-415A-A917-ED7088D91F73@livecode.com>

I don't have any more information on the date in 2027 yet. It’s a long way off. Let's see how many of you are actually still using it at that point and truly haven't moved and how well we've done from Create - i.e. what we can afford.

Kind regards, 

Kevin 

Kevin Miller ~ kevin at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ 
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things 




On 06/08/2024, 00:51, "use-livecode on behalf of Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode" <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> on behalf of use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:


The current FAQ says:


- 'When are you ending support for LiveCode Classic? ... we will
maintain compatibility with supported operating systems until 2027.'


That wording is ambiguous. As Ben said:


> is that Jan 1 2027, or Dec 31 2027?


That is significant - A difference of an entire year!
Can we get a clarification on that?


(This is a general, widely relevant fact in a public FAQ;
it is not only a personal and private account-specific issue.
I may indeed have account-specific or personal case follow-ups,
but it helps, and is standard, to have clear general facts first!)


All other references I see use similar wording:


- 'we haven't changed the licensing for the existing platform which you
can continue to use on the same terms up until its end of life in 2027.'


- 'If you have a current LiveCode license,
LiveCode Classic will continue until 2027'


(This is not a Classic vs Create topic. I enjoyed everyone's views.)


I hope all had a great weekend! :)


Best wishes,


Curry Kenworthy


Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
"PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
https://livecodeconsulting.com/ <https://livecodeconsulting.com/>


_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode <http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode>






From kevin at livecode.com  Wed Aug  7 05:12:27 2024
From: kevin at livecode.com (Kevin Miller)
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2024 10:12:27 +0100
Subject: Open Letter to Community
Message-ID: <C4D3B07F-3015-47E5-91DF-129E50ABB3B1@livecode.com>

Hi folks,

 

Some of you will have seen this as it went out by email yesterday. However I know for whatever reason not all of you get our emails so I’m going to post this here for those that haven’t seen it. I think it’s important to set the record straight.

 

https://livecode.com/an-open-letter-to-the-community/

 

I don’t mind a little bit of feedback on this if you want to share it but after that I think we need to get back to discussing how to use the product on this list and move licensing discussions to direct contact.

 

Kind regards,

 

Kevin

 

Kevin Miller ~ kevin at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/

LiveCode: Build Amazing Things

 


From curry at pair.com  Wed Aug  7 07:29:21 2024
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2024 07:29:21 -0400
Subject: Open Letter to Community - 22nd August deadline?
In-Reply-To: <C4D3B07F-3015-47E5-91DF-129E50ABB3B1@livecode.com>
References: <C4D3B07F-3015-47E5-91DF-129E50ABB3B1@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <32f7aacd-39ce-4118-9740-cea41554296c@pair.com>

Kevin -

I'm glad you posted this; I was going to mention it here, because -

'We will continue to work with the rest of you to get something that
can work for both of us. Please get in touch during transition
period, i.e. prior to 22nd August.'

Clarification -

Is 22nd August a deadline for transition issue questions and requests?
If so, I don't think people will notice, without it in a subject line!

It's very short notice for a deadline - if it is one?

(I sent extra questions to support after seeing that,
but rushing is difficult, and may cause confusion -
Some questions or requests depend on answers to other questions!)

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
"PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
https://livecodeconsulting.com/


From paul at researchware.com  Wed Aug  7 12:04:42 2024
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2024 12:04:42 -0400
Subject: Best way to convert color values
Message-ID: <70c1aa0b-489b-4c21-98f4-696de79f98b8@researchware.com>

You have RGB colors (0-255,0-255,0-255), Hex colors (#000000 - #FFFFFF) 
and named colors ("blue") in Livecode

Any built in way (via some trick) to convert between color value formats?

I can always write a routine to convert RGB to Hex and Hex to RGB, but I 
am wondering if there is some clever trick in Livecode to do this.

For example: answer color -- returns RGB, but the htmlText of a line 
wants <p bgcolor="#NNNNNN"> </p>

Thanks in advance,


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Wed Aug  7 12:14:02 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2024 16:14:02 +0000
Subject: Best way to convert color values
In-Reply-To: <70c1aa0b-489b-4c21-98f4-696de79f98b8@researchware.com>
References: <70c1aa0b-489b-4c21-98f4-696de79f98b8@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <03D070ED-D321-48BA-8F4F-037B9150E07D@iotecdigital.com>

I found a private function in the Quartam PDF Library. I don’t want to post it here because I don’t know the licensing. I believe it was a purchased product. If you have it you can probably find it. Otherwise it shouldn’t be too difficult to do the math. 

Bob S


> On Aug 7, 2024, at 9:04 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> You have RGB colors (0-255,0-255,0-255), Hex colors (#000000 - #FFFFFF) and named colors ("blue") in Livecode
> 
> Any built in way (via some trick) to convert between color value formats?
> 
> I can always write a routine to convert RGB to Hex and Hex to RGB, but I am wondering if there is some clever trick in Livecode to do this.
> 
> For example: answer color -- returns RGB, but the htmlText of a line wants <p bgcolor="#NNNNNN"> </p>
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From craig at starfirelighting.com  Wed Aug  7 12:16:37 2024
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2024 12:16:37 -0400
Subject: Best way to convert color values
In-Reply-To: <70c1aa0b-489b-4c21-98f4-696de79f98b8@researchware.com>
References: <70c1aa0b-489b-4c21-98f4-696de79f98b8@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <20181D55-F300-4EA8-BD2B-F5FA7070C677@starfirelighting.com>

Hi.

If Paul’s post is not viable, I don’t think there is any native gadget (like “convert”) that applies to the different color formats. Fairly simple to roll your own, depending on how comprehensive you need it.

Craig

> On Aug 7, 2024, at 12:04 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> You have RGB colors (0-255,0-255,0-255), Hex colors (#000000 - #FFFFFF) and named colors ("blue") in Livecode
> 
> Any built in way (via some trick) to convert between color value formats?
> 
> I can always write a routine to convert RGB to Hex and Hex to RGB, but I am wondering if there is some clever trick in Livecode to do this.
> 
> For example: answer color -- returns RGB, but the htmlText of a line wants <p bgcolor="#NNNNNN"> </p>
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com  Wed Aug  7 12:24:31 2024
From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2024 18:24:31 +0200
Subject: Best way to convert color values
In-Reply-To: <20181D55-F300-4EA8-BD2B-F5FA7070C677@starfirelighting.com>
References: <70c1aa0b-489b-4c21-98f4-696de79f98b8@researchware.com>
 <20181D55-F300-4EA8-BD2B-F5FA7070C677@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <CAGu-FtbvwGNt3B=ETcsUpmvrNJHuGHPfgqZ5E8N22ngjFff_Ow@mail.gmail.com>

No need to reinvent that particular wheel when the awesome guys at
FerrusLogic has had us covered for years:
https://github.com/Ferruslogic/TinyColor

/Andreas

ons 7 aug. 2024 kl. 18:18 skrev Craig Newman via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:

> Hi.
>
> If Paul’s post is not viable, I don’t think there is any native gadget
> (like “convert”) that applies to the different color formats. Fairly simple
> to roll your own, depending on how comprehensive you need it.
>
> Craig
>
> > On Aug 7, 2024, at 12:04 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > You have RGB colors (0-255,0-255,0-255), Hex colors (#000000 - #FFFFFF)
> and named colors ("blue") in Livecode
> >
> > Any built in way (via some trick) to convert between color value formats?
> >
> > I can always write a routine to convert RGB to Hex and Hex to RGB, but I
> am wondering if there is some clever trick in Livecode to do this.
> >
> > For example: answer color -- returns RGB, but the htmlText of a line
> wants <p bgcolor="#NNNNNN"> </p>
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Wed Aug  7 12:30:26 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2024 16:30:26 +0000
Subject: Best way to convert color values
In-Reply-To: <70c1aa0b-489b-4c21-98f4-696de79f98b8@researchware.com>
References: <70c1aa0b-489b-4c21-98f4-696de79f98b8@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <DD251D8C-5C73-400B-B016-6A1095CEC6A2@iotecdigital.com>

Also https://dev.to/hichem-mg/comprehensive-guide-converting-rgb-color-to-hex-code-2fcb

Google is your friend. :-)

Bob S


On Aug 7, 2024, at 9:04 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

You have RGB colors (0-255,0-255,0-255), Hex colors (#000000 - #FFFFFF) and named colors ("blue") in Livecode

Any built in way (via some trick) to convert between color value formats?

I can always write a routine to convert RGB to Hex and Hex to RGB, but I am wondering if there is some clever trick in Livecode to do this.

For example: answer color -- returns RGB, but the htmlText of a line wants <p bgcolor="#NNNNNN"> </p>

Thanks in advance,

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From paul at researchware.com  Wed Aug  7 12:33:19 2024
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2024 12:33:19 -0400
Subject: Best way to convert color values
In-Reply-To: <CAGu-FtbvwGNt3B=ETcsUpmvrNJHuGHPfgqZ5E8N22ngjFff_Ow@mail.gmail.com>
References: <70c1aa0b-489b-4c21-98f4-696de79f98b8@researchware.com>
 <20181D55-F300-4EA8-BD2B-F5FA7070C677@starfirelighting.com>
 <CAGu-FtbvwGNt3B=ETcsUpmvrNJHuGHPfgqZ5E8N22ngjFff_Ow@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <484fe9fd-a6a6-40d1-a9c1-9a9168ae612a@researchware.com>

Wow Andreas!

You win on the best response!

A free library of 70 color functions is way more than I need (but will 
likely need more than I think I do)

Thank you.

On 8/7/2024 12:24 PM, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode wrote:
> No need to reinvent that particular wheel when the awesome guys at
> FerrusLogic has had us covered for years:
> https://github.com/Ferruslogic/TinyColor
>
> /Andreas
>
> ons 7 aug. 2024 kl. 18:18 skrev Craig Newman via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>
>> Hi.
>>
>> If Pauls post is not viable, I dont think there is any native gadget
>> (like convert) that applies to the different color formats. Fairly simple
>> to roll your own, depending on how comprehensive you need it.
>>
>> Craig
>>
>>> On Aug 7, 2024, at 12:04 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> You have RGB colors (0-255,0-255,0-255), Hex colors (#000000 - #FFFFFF)
>> and named colors ("blue") in Livecode
>>> Any built in way (via some trick) to convert between color value formats?
>>>
>>> I can always write a routine to convert RGB to Hex and Hex to RGB, but I
>> am wondering if there is some clever trick in Livecode to do this.
>>> For example: answer color -- returns RGB, but the htmlText of a line
>> wants <p bgcolor="#NNNNNN"> </p>
>>> Thanks in advance,
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From paul at researchware.com  Wed Aug  7 13:47:12 2024
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2024 13:47:12 -0400
Subject: Cell colorization in a table in Livecode...
Message-ID: <8fb662aa-fdd5-4d58-b34f-46649a6c0682@researchware.com>

My second color question of the day.

We current have a analytical view in our app which shows a table of 
frequencies. The number of rows and columns are driven by user data and 
can becomes a large number (I've heard all the arguments that users 
should not ever view tables of hundreds of rows by hundreds of columns 
as a person can't digest that much data - and our customer are quite 
clear that they want to view such data in this fashion).

We currently use a Datagrid. Each cell has a numerical integer value, 
0-n. We want to colorize the cells on a gradient, say from white to 
green (as an example) which we'd map the gradient colors with 0 being 
white and max(N) being green and color each cell accordingly.

This can be done relatively easily in the Datagrid by a small bit of 
custom code that looks at the cell value and sets the background color 
of the field (that is the cell) to the appropriate color.

We have been migrating all uses of Datagrids to Polygrids where the 
columns are driven by user data since the number of columns could exceed 
roughly 300, which at the default column width,  bumps up against the 
32,767 pixel width limit of the Datagrid. The Polygrid does not have 
this width limit, which is why we've been replacing Datagrids with 
Polygrids.

Now, our current problem is that there does not appear to be any tricks 
to having variable cell background colors in a Polygrid. Row colors: yes 
Alternate Row colors: Yes, Highlight color: Yes, possibly even 
highlighting different cell via the pgHilitedData property: maybe 
(haven't tested yet, but they'd all be 1 color).

I am not really familiar with the PolyList widget (vs PolyGrid). Has 
anyone figured out how to do a spreadsheet-like table in either the 
PolyGrid or PolyList with individual cell background coloring?

If not, I'll stick with the Datagrid and add a check for the columns x 
widths exceeding the 32K px threshold and just warn the researcher we 
can't handler that much data (which dings our product vs competition!)



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Aug  7 14:14:08 2024
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2024 18:14:08 +0000
Subject: Best way to convert color values
Message-ID: <1c7699e21085f1e95e3eea7f8d6a6bc984378c64@fourthworld.com>

Paul Dupuis wrote:

> I can always write a routine to convert RGB to Hex and Hex to RGB, but
> I am wondering if there is some clever trick in Livecode to do this.
>
> For example: answer color -- returns RGB, but the htmlText of a line
> wants <p bgcolor="#NNNNNN"> </p>


If the target of the htmlText is a LiveCode field, I don't know of a method built into the LC engine, but it's easy enough to script:

function RGBtoHex pColor
   repeat for each item tVal in pColor
      get baseConvert(tVal, 10, 16)
      if len(it) < 2 then put 0 before it
      put it after tHex
   end repeat
   return "#"& tHex
end RGBtoHex


If the target of the htmlText is a browser widget, the browser engine's built-in "rgb" CSS function can do this:

<html>
  <div style="background-color:rgb(130,30,230)"> Hello </div>
</html>

--
Richard Gaskin
FourthWorld.com


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Wed Aug  7 14:17:41 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2024 18:17:41 +0000
Subject: Cell colorization in a table in Livecode...
In-Reply-To: <8fb662aa-fdd5-4d58-b34f-46649a6c0682@researchware.com>
References: <8fb662aa-fdd5-4d58-b34f-46649a6c0682@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <F0F12D58-8011-4F5C-92F4-727BC6648B44@iotecdigital.com>



On Aug 7, 2024, at 10:47 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

Now, our current problem is that there does not appear to be any tricks to having variable cell background colors in a Polygrid. Row colors: yes Alternate Row colors: Yes, Highlight color: Yes, possibly even highlighting different cell via the pgHilitedData property: maybe (haven't tested yet, but they'd all be 1 color).

I am not really familiar with the PolyList widget (vs PolyGrid). Has anyone figured out how to do a spreadsheet-like table in either the PolyGrid or PolyList with individual cell background coloring?

If not, I'll stick with the Datagrid and add a check for the columns x widths exceeding the 32K px threshold and just warn the researcher we can't handler that much data (which dings our product vs competition!)


Right. That has been the problem with widgets that are meant to replace native controls all along. They do not work the way the native controls work, and they don’t have the extensive property list that the native control had. Take the Custom Property Editor itself. It is actually uses a Tree List widget, which is fine except that there is this anooying need to click something you just edited again after it was already selected. The old Property Editor did not do that.

The Segmented Control was meant to replace the Tab Panel, but try setting the widths of the tabs using a comma separated list of integers and you will have issues.  I had to create buttons that I place over each tab “segment” and put it all in a group because the widget does not handle mouseUps. In fact, I do not think any widgets handle mouseUps! I could be mistaken.

Als while they look great, (the old Tab Panel lokked like warmed over dog cr*p on Windows) their options for modification via script are usually less than the native object they were meant to produce.

Bob S


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Wed Aug  7 14:20:35 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2024 18:20:35 +0000
Subject: Cell colorization in a table in Livecode...
In-Reply-To: <F0F12D58-8011-4F5C-92F4-727BC6648B44@iotecdigital.com>
References: <8fb662aa-fdd5-4d58-b34f-46649a6c0682@researchware.com>
 <F0F12D58-8011-4F5C-92F4-727BC6648B44@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <2D8C8D7E-38F5-45FD-B825-BEFD2A5BC3AF@iotecdigital.com>

<note to self: spell and grammar check before posting. Sheesh!>

Bob S


On Aug 7, 2024, at 11:17 AM, Bob Sneidar <bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com> wrote:



On Aug 7, 2024, at 10:47 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

Now, our current problem is that there does not appear to be any tricks to having variable cell background colors in a Polygrid. Row colors: yes Alternate Row colors: Yes, Highlight color: Yes, possibly even highlighting different cell via the pgHilitedData property: maybe (haven't tested yet, but they'd all be 1 color).

I am not really familiar with the PolyList widget (vs PolyGrid). Has anyone figured out how to do a spreadsheet-like table in either the PolyGrid or PolyList with individual cell background coloring?

If not, I'll stick with the Datagrid and add a check for the columns x widths exceeding the 32K px threshold and just warn the researcher we can't handler that much data (which dings our product vs competition!)


Right. That has been the problem with widgets that are meant to replace native controls all along. They do not work the way the native controls work, and they don’t have the extensive property list that the native control had. Take the Custom Property Editor itself. It is actually uses a Tree List widget, which is fine except that there is this anooying need to click something you just edited again after it was already selected. The old Property Editor did not do that.

The Segmented Control was meant to replace the Tab Panel, but try setting the widths of the tabs using a comma separated list of integers and you will have issues.  I had to create buttons that I place over each tab “segment” and put it all in a group because the widget does not handle mouseUps. In fact, I do not think any widgets handle mouseUps! I could be mistaken.

Als while they look great, (the old Tab Panel lokked like warmed over dog cr*p on Windows) their options for modification via script are usually less than the native object they were meant to produce.

Bob S



From dan at clearvisiontech.com  Wed Aug  7 15:33:51 2024
From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2024 19:33:51 +0000
Subject: iOS App Crashing On Close
In-Reply-To: <2D8C8D7E-38F5-45FD-B825-BEFD2A5BC3AF@iotecdigital.com>
References: <8fb662aa-fdd5-4d58-b34f-46649a6c0682@researchware.com>
 <F0F12D58-8011-4F5C-92F4-727BC6648B44@iotecdigital.com>
 <2D8C8D7E-38F5-45FD-B825-BEFD2A5BC3AF@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <SN7PR12MB8028ACDCBC0064708AAA479AB9B82@SN7PR12MB8028.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>

I have an app that has been humming along just fine in the app store.  I updated the app to 10.0.0 (rc1) and it’s now in TestFlight.   When I close the app from the OS (swipe up from bottom of phone and then swipe app up to exit it), I get this message:

“MyAppName” – Crashed
Do you want to share additional information with the developer?

Details about the crash in TestFlight (date, time, build, device model, etc.) seem useless.   I looked at the crash log in Xcode, but it too seems to just list the threads and hex values.  For example, the highlighted red line in the Crash List (in Xcode) shows:   MyAppName: 0x104a6c000 + 634716

Interesting thing is if I call “quit” in a button, I don’t get the crash.

Any thoughts?

-Dan

From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Wed Aug  7 16:59:35 2024
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2024 21:59:35 +0100
Subject: iOS App Crashing On Close
In-Reply-To: <SN7PR12MB8028ACDCBC0064708AAA479AB9B82@SN7PR12MB8028.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
References: <8fb662aa-fdd5-4d58-b34f-46649a6c0682@researchware.com>
 <F0F12D58-8011-4F5C-92F4-727BC6648B44@iotecdigital.com>
 <2D8C8D7E-38F5-45FD-B825-BEFD2A5BC3AF@iotecdigital.com>
 <SN7PR12MB8028ACDCBC0064708AAA479AB9B82@SN7PR12MB8028.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <FED482FD-9297-43E0-8D1F-89457F69A346@gmail.com>

Hi Dan,

Just a random thought that might help orient you to a potential problem… how are you handling the closeStackRequest (or closeStack) message? “Quit” in a button obviously bypasses these. Odd that the problem would just start showing up in 10.0.0 although I do remember reading somewhere that the implementation of Monte’s mergeNotify which contained the message UIApplicationWillResignActiveNotification had been revised at some point, but can’t find any reference to it now.  Sorry if that doesn’t help. Just some random thoughts that popped into my head while reading of your problem. 

Mark

> On 7 Aug 2024, at 8:33 PM, Dan Friedman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I have an app that has been humming along just fine in the app store.  I updated the app to 10.0.0 (rc1) and it’s now in TestFlight.   When I close the app from the OS (swipe up from bottom of phone and then swipe app up to exit it), I get this message:
> 
> “MyAppName” – Crashed
> Do you want to share additional information with the developer?
> 
> Details about the crash in TestFlight (date, time, build, device model, etc.) seem useless.   I looked at the crash log in Xcode, but it too seems to just list the threads and hex values.  For example, the highlighted red line in the Crash List (in Xcode) shows:   MyAppName: 0x104a6c000 + 634716
> 
> Interesting thing is if I call “quit” in a button, I don’t get the crash.
> 
> Any thoughts?
> 
> -Dan
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From dan at clearvisiontech.com  Wed Aug  7 17:07:06 2024
From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2024 21:07:06 +0000
Subject: iOS App Crashing On Close
In-Reply-To: <FED482FD-9297-43E0-8D1F-89457F69A346@gmail.com>
References: <8fb662aa-fdd5-4d58-b34f-46649a6c0682@researchware.com>
 <F0F12D58-8011-4F5C-92F4-727BC6648B44@iotecdigital.com>
 <2D8C8D7E-38F5-45FD-B825-BEFD2A5BC3AF@iotecdigital.com>
 <SN7PR12MB8028ACDCBC0064708AAA479AB9B82@SN7PR12MB8028.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
 <FED482FD-9297-43E0-8D1F-89457F69A346@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SN7PR12MB80287D90DB99184D6D7478C5B9B82@SN7PR12MB8028.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>

Mark,

Thank you for the reply and thoughts!   I am not using closeStack or closeStackRequest anywhere in my project.   I am using shutdown and shutdownRequest but those calls have not changed since moving from 10.0.0 (dp 8) to 10.0.0 (rc1).   Also, I am not using mergeNotify (or have it included) in the build.

Maybe Panos will have some ideas?

-Dan



From: Mark Smith <marksmithhfx at gmail.com>
Date: Wednesday, August 7, 2024 at 2:00 PM
To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Cc: Dan Friedman <dan at clearvisiontech.com>
Subject: Re: iOS App Crashing On Close
Hi Dan,

Just a random thought that might help orient you to a potential problem… how are you handling the closeStackRequest (or closeStack) message? “Quit” in a button obviously bypasses these. Odd that the problem would just start showing up in 10.0.0 although I do remember reading somewhere that the implementation of Monte’s mergeNotify which contained the message UIApplicationWillResignActiveNotification had been revised at some point, but can’t find any reference to it now.  Sorry if that doesn’t help. Just some random thoughts that popped into my head while reading of your problem.

Mark

> On 7 Aug 2024, at 8:33 PM, Dan Friedman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> I have an app that has been humming along just fine in the app store.  I updated the app to 10.0.0 (rc1) and it’s now in TestFlight.   When I close the app from the OS (swipe up from bottom of phone and then swipe app up to exit it), I get this message:
>
> “MyAppName” – Crashed
> Do you want to share additional information with the developer?
>
> Details about the crash in TestFlight (date, time, build, device model, etc.) seem useless.   I looked at the crash log in Xcode, but it too seems to just list the threads and hex values.  For example, the highlighted red line in the Crash List (in Xcode) shows:   MyAppName: 0x104a6c000 + 634716
>
> Interesting thing is if I call “quit” in a button, I don’t get the crash.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> -Dan
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Wed Aug  7 20:57:07 2024
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2024 01:57:07 +0100
Subject: iOS App Crashing On Close
In-Reply-To: <SN7PR12MB80287D90DB99184D6D7478C5B9B82@SN7PR12MB8028.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
References: <8fb662aa-fdd5-4d58-b34f-46649a6c0682@researchware.com>
 <F0F12D58-8011-4F5C-92F4-727BC6648B44@iotecdigital.com>
 <2D8C8D7E-38F5-45FD-B825-BEFD2A5BC3AF@iotecdigital.com>
 <SN7PR12MB8028ACDCBC0064708AAA479AB9B82@SN7PR12MB8028.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
 <FED482FD-9297-43E0-8D1F-89457F69A346@gmail.com>
 <SN7PR12MB80287D90DB99184D6D7478C5B9B82@SN7PR12MB8028.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <0878A370-0515-4487-99B3-0DFA63C25CEE@gmail.com>

Hi Dan, 

Just to followup, I’ve not experienced the crash you mentioned but I do remember going through a lengthy trial and error process trying to figure out which messages are sent, and when, in response to closing the app the way you describe. I think I discovered, at least I noted this as a comment In my code, that the shutdown and shutdownrequest messages are not sent to mobile devices, at least they weren’t when I was testing some years ago. Things may have changed since then. Instead I used closeStack and closeStackRequest which appear to work reliably. (But I have not tested with 10.0.0 (rc1)). Hope it helps. 

But let’s hope Panos can shine more light on this (as I often feel like I am walking around in LC with a blindfold on. Note: the documentation appears to shine no light on this situation). 

Best,
Mark

> On 7 Aug 2024, at 10:07 PM, Dan Friedman <dan at clearvisiontech.com> wrote:
> 
> Mark,
>  
> Thank you for the reply and thoughts!   I am not using closeStack or closeStackRequest anywhere in my project.   I am using shutdown and shutdownRequest but those calls have not changed since moving from 10.0.0 (dp 8) to 10.0.0 (rc1).   Also, I am not using mergeNotify (or have it included) in the build.
>  
> Maybe Panos will have some ideas?
>  
> -Dan
>  
>  
>  
> From: Mark Smith <marksmithhfx at gmail.com>
> Date: Wednesday, August 7, 2024 at 2:00 PM
> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Cc: Dan Friedman <dan at clearvisiontech.com>
> Subject: Re: iOS App Crashing On Close
> 
> Hi Dan,
> 
> Just a random thought that might help orient you to a potential problem… how are you handling the closeStackRequest (or closeStack) message? “Quit” in a button obviously bypasses these. Odd that the problem would just start showing up in 10.0.0 although I do remember reading somewhere that the implementation of Monte’s mergeNotify which contained the message UIApplicationWillResignActiveNotification had been revised at some point, but can’t find any reference to it now.  Sorry if that doesn’t help. Just some random thoughts that popped into my head while reading of your problem. 
> 
> Mark
> 
> > On 7 Aug 2024, at 8:33 PM, Dan Friedman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > 
> > I have an app that has been humming along just fine in the app store.  I updated the app to 10.0.0 (rc1) and it’s now in TestFlight.   When I close the app from the OS (swipe up from bottom of phone and then swipe app up to exit it), I get this message:
> > 
> > “MyAppName” – Crashed
> > Do you want to share additional information with the developer?
> > 
> > Details about the crash in TestFlight (date, time, build, device model, etc.) seem useless.   I looked at the crash log in Xcode, but it too seems to just list the threads and hex values.  For example, the highlighted red line in the Crash List (in Xcode) shows:   MyAppName: 0x104a6c000 + 634716
> > 
> > Interesting thing is if I call “quit” in a button, I don’t get the crash.
> > 
> > Any thoughts?
> > 
> > -Dan
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 


From martyknappster at gmail.com  Wed Aug  7 23:59:06 2024
From: martyknappster at gmail.com (Marty Knapp)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2024 20:59:06 -0700
Subject: macOS Sequoia beta
Message-ID: <1332BBC2-A99C-4256-A0E1-C08937501009@gmail.com>

Curious if anyone has tested LC on the macOS Sequoia beta and if so, have you found anything of concern?

---
Marty Knapp

From merakosp at gmail.com  Thu Aug  8 05:14:45 2024
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2024 12:14:45 +0300
Subject: iOS App Crashing On Close
In-Reply-To: <0878A370-0515-4487-99B3-0DFA63C25CEE@gmail.com>
References: <8fb662aa-fdd5-4d58-b34f-46649a6c0682@researchware.com>
 <F0F12D58-8011-4F5C-92F4-727BC6648B44@iotecdigital.com>
 <2D8C8D7E-38F5-45FD-B825-BEFD2A5BC3AF@iotecdigital.com>
 <SN7PR12MB8028ACDCBC0064708AAA479AB9B82@SN7PR12MB8028.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
 <FED482FD-9297-43E0-8D1F-89457F69A346@gmail.com>
 <SN7PR12MB80287D90DB99184D6D7478C5B9B82@SN7PR12MB8028.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
 <0878A370-0515-4487-99B3-0DFA63C25CEE@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq988ZbpenKTtJ=VXzt=ymH=05sa5H5VCipC4_ScRNJZig@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Dan and Mark,

Hmm, interesting, I cannot think of anything we changed from 10 DP-8 to 10
RC-1 that could have caused this on iOS. Is the app doing anything when it
is in the background (e.g. playing background audio or such)?

In any case, I think the best way to get this resolved is to send us the
crash log to see if we can symbolicate it and/or send us directly the
sample stack that exhibits the problem.

Kind regards,
Panos
--

On Thu, 8 Aug 2024 at 03:58, Mark Smith via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Dan,
>
> Just to followup, I’ve not experienced the crash you mentioned but I do
> remember going through a lengthy trial and error process trying to figure
> out which messages are sent, and when, in response to closing the app the
> way you describe. I think I discovered, at least I noted this as a comment
> In my code, that the shutdown and shutdownrequest messages are not sent to
> mobile devices, at least they weren’t when I was testing some years ago.
> Things may have changed since then. Instead I used closeStack and
> closeStackRequest which appear to work reliably. (But I have not tested
> with 10.0.0 (rc1)). Hope it helps.
>
> But let’s hope Panos can shine more light on this (as I often feel like I
> am walking around in LC with a blindfold on. Note: the documentation
> appears to shine no light on this situation).
>
> Best,
> Mark
>
> > On 7 Aug 2024, at 10:07 PM, Dan Friedman <dan at clearvisiontech.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Mark,
> >
> > Thank you for the reply and thoughts!   I am not using closeStack or
> closeStackRequest anywhere in my project.   I am using shutdown and
> shutdownRequest but those calls have not changed since moving from 10.0.0
> (dp 8) to 10.0.0 (rc1).   Also, I am not using mergeNotify (or have it
> included) in the build.
> >
> > Maybe Panos will have some ideas?
> >
> > -Dan
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Mark Smith <marksmithhfx at gmail.com>
> > Date: Wednesday, August 7, 2024 at 2:00 PM
> > To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> > Cc: Dan Friedman <dan at clearvisiontech.com>
> > Subject: Re: iOS App Crashing On Close
> >
> > Hi Dan,
> >
> > Just a random thought that might help orient you to a potential problem…
> how are you handling the closeStackRequest (or closeStack) message? “Quit”
> in a button obviously bypasses these. Odd that the problem would just start
> showing up in 10.0.0 although I do remember reading somewhere that the
> implementation of Monte’s mergeNotify which contained the message
> UIApplicationWillResignActiveNotification had been revised at some point,
> but can’t find any reference to it now.  Sorry if that doesn’t help. Just
> some random thoughts that popped into my head while reading of your
> problem.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> > > On 7 Aug 2024, at 8:33 PM, Dan Friedman via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > I have an app that has been humming along just fine in the app store.
> I updated the app to 10.0.0 (rc1) and it’s now in TestFlight.   When I
> close the app from the OS (swipe up from bottom of phone and then swipe app
> up to exit it), I get this message:
> > >
> > > “MyAppName” – Crashed
> > > Do you want to share additional information with the developer?
> > >
> > > Details about the crash in TestFlight (date, time, build, device
> model, etc.) seem useless.   I looked at the crash log in Xcode, but it too
> seems to just list the threads and hex values.  For example, the
> highlighted red line in the Crash List (in Xcode) shows:   MyAppName:
> 0x104a6c000 + 634716
> > >
> > > Interesting thing is if I call “quit” in a button, I don’t get the
> crash.
> > >
> > > Any thoughts?
> > >
> > > -Dan
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > use-livecode mailing list
> > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From phil at liverpool.ac.uk  Thu Aug  8 05:22:21 2024
From: phil at liverpool.ac.uk (Jimmieson, Phil)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2024 09:22:21 +0000
Subject: Export snapshot - is it usable on LiveCode web apps?
Message-ID: <1DA5481F-8C90-4F6A-8F8C-986D6E959817@liverpool.ac.uk>

Hi folks,
I’m experimenting with converting one of my LiveCode iPad Apps into a web version, to see how well it works, but there’s an issue that seems to be a deal-breaker. My iPad app takes a screenshot of the LiveCode stack when the user navigates away from the main card, so that the image can be used elsewhere in the app. This works fine on iPad, but I noticed that the web version of the app generates a javascript exception when I try to leave the main card. On checking the dictionary, I noticed that the export snapshot command is not listed as being supported on web. Is this correct? If so, is there an alternative that will work for web?

Thanks

--
Phil Jimmieson (He/Him)
University of Liverpool, Computer Science Department
Ashton Bldg, Ashton Street, Liverpool. L69 3BX
0151 795 4236


From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com  Thu Aug  8 08:23:23 2024
From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2024 14:23:23 +0200
Subject: Export snapshot - is it usable on LiveCode web apps?
In-Reply-To: <1DA5481F-8C90-4F6A-8F8C-986D6E959817@liverpool.ac.uk>
References: <1DA5481F-8C90-4F6A-8F8C-986D6E959817@liverpool.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <CAGu-Ftabrb2Q07xhAQxQpXAeZ-69iSaWSyUTOs+Sn7zft2290Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Phil,

I believe it’s correct that export snapshot is currently not supported on
web (with LiveCode 10, don’t know about Create).

I tried to find a solution some time ago, but didn’t have time to
experiment enough.

One of the methods in this article might be useful:
https://hackernoon.com/how-to-take-screenshots-in-the-browser-using-javascript-l92k3xq7

I might revisit this challenge when back from vacation. If you find a
solution I’d be interested to learn it.

/Andreas

tors 8 aug. 2024 kl. 11:23 skrev Jimmieson, Phil via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:

> Hi folks,
> I’m experimenting with converting one of my LiveCode iPad Apps into a web
> version, to see how well it works, but there’s an issue that seems to be a
> deal-breaker. My iPad app takes a screenshot of the LiveCode stack when the
> user navigates away from the main card, so that the image can be used
> elsewhere in the app. This works fine on iPad, but I noticed that the web
> version of the app generates a javascript exception when I try to leave the
> main card. On checking the dictionary, I noticed that the export snapshot
> command is not listed as being supported on web. Is this correct? If so, is
> there an alternative that will work for web?
>
> Thanks
>
> --
> Phil Jimmieson (He/Him)
> University of Liverpool, Computer Science Department
> Ashton Bldg, Ashton Street, Liverpool. L69 3BX
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/Ashton+Street,+Liverpool.+L69+3BX?entry=gmail&source=g>
> 0151 795 4236
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From mark at livecode.com  Thu Aug  8 08:39:00 2024
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2024 13:39:00 +0100
Subject: Export snapshot - is it usable on LiveCode web apps?
In-Reply-To: <1DA5481F-8C90-4F6A-8F8C-986D6E959817@liverpool.ac.uk>
References: <1DA5481F-8C90-4F6A-8F8C-986D6E959817@liverpool.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <d5f49680e326203d4237cd169c778080@livecode.com>

On 2024-08-08 10:22, Jimmieson, Phil via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi folks,
> Im experimenting with converting one of my LiveCode iPad Apps into a 
> web version, to see how well it works, but theres an issue that seems 
> to be a deal-breaker. My iPad app takes a screenshot of the LiveCode 
> stack when the user navigates away from the main card, so that the 
> image can be used elsewhere in the app. This works fine on iPad, but I 
> noticed that the web version of the app generates a javascript 
> exception when I try to leave the main card. On checking the 
> dictionary, I noticed that the export snapshot command is not listed as 
> being supported on web. Is this correct? If so, is there an alternative 
> that will work for web?

So 'export snapshot from screen' is not supported - this is the form 
which takes the pixel data from the actual (composited) screen buffer.

However, there is an alternate form which is entirely internal to the 
engine:

    export snapshot from [ rect <rect> of ] <object>

To use the internal form for a card you can do:

    export snapshot from this card

Or if you want a portion of the card:

    export snapshot from rect 0,0,100,100 of this card

Further there is an `at size <width>,<height>` clause which allows you 
to specify the size you want the resulting image.

The difference here is that the internal form replicates the same 
process that the engine uses to render objects to a window - it renders 
the given rectangle of the object into a rect of the specified size (or 
the size of the rect/object if 'at size' is not specified).

In contrast, the 'external' form has to ask the OS for the given 
rectangle of the actual screen's framebuffer.

Hope this helps,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things


From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com  Thu Aug  8 10:22:41 2024
From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2024 16:22:41 +0200
Subject: Export snapshot - is it usable on LiveCode web apps?
In-Reply-To: <d5f49680e326203d4237cd169c778080@livecode.com>
References: <1DA5481F-8C90-4F6A-8F8C-986D6E959817@liverpool.ac.uk>
 <d5f49680e326203d4237cd169c778080@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <CAGu-FtY7noM1rtbQVt_6czd3-Ov0PhiaaHGTP-VFi5fkuhhkcg@mail.gmail.com>

That’s good to know! Then it must have been something else I was struggling
with - perhaps it had to do with getting a snapshot of the content of a
browser widget…? That would still present problems in certain (all?)
platforms, right?

tors 8 aug. 2024 kl. 14:39 skrev Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:

> On 2024-08-08 10:22, Jimmieson, Phil via use-livecode wrote:
> > Hi folks,
> > I’m experimenting with converting one of my LiveCode iPad Apps into a
> > web version, to see how well it works, but there’s an issue that seems
> > to be a deal-breaker. My iPad app takes a screenshot of the LiveCode
> > stack when the user navigates away from the main card, so that the
> > image can be used elsewhere in the app. This works fine on iPad, but I
> > noticed that the web version of the app generates a javascript
> > exception when I try to leave the main card. On checking the
> > dictionary, I noticed that the export snapshot command is not listed as
> > being supported on web. Is this correct? If so, is there an alternative
> > that will work for web?
>
> So 'export snapshot from screen' is not supported - this is the form
> which takes the pixel data from the actual (composited) screen buffer.
>
> However, there is an alternate form which is entirely internal to the
> engine:
>
>     export snapshot from [ rect <rect> of ] <object>
>
> To use the internal form for a card you can do:
>
>     export snapshot from this card
>
> Or if you want a portion of the card:
>
>     export snapshot from rect 0,0,100,100 of this card
>
> Further there is an `at size <width>,<height>` clause which allows you
> to specify the size you want the resulting image.
>
> The difference here is that the internal form replicates the same
> process that the engine uses to render objects to a window - it renders
> the given rectangle of the object into a rect of the specified size (or
> the size of the rect/object if 'at size' is not specified).
>
> In contrast, the 'external' form has to ask the OS for the given
> rectangle of the actual screen's framebuffer.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Mark.
>
> --
> Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Build Amazing Things

From tom at makeshyft.com  Thu Aug  8 10:37:03 2024
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2024 10:37:03 -0400
Subject: Export snapshot - is it usable on LiveCode web apps?
In-Reply-To: <CAGu-FtY7noM1rtbQVt_6czd3-Ov0PhiaaHGTP-VFi5fkuhhkcg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1DA5481F-8C90-4F6A-8F8C-986D6E959817@liverpool.ac.uk>
 <d5f49680e326203d4237cd169c778080@livecode.com>
 <CAGu-FtY7noM1rtbQVt_6czd3-Ov0PhiaaHGTP-VFi5fkuhhkcg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPzQJLLq8tEJdzJjrk1dSPqMVEreNy_jFePMz=b-09Vuo=1_=Q@mail.gmail.com>

just fyi If your cursor or another window is over the rect it will show up
in the screenshot.

On Thu, Aug 8, 2024 at 10:23 AM Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> That’s good to know! Then it must have been something else I was struggling
> with - perhaps it had to do with getting a snapshot of the content of a
> browser widget…? That would still present problems in certain (all?)
> platforms, right?
>
> tors 8 aug. 2024 kl. 14:39 skrev Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>
> > On 2024-08-08 10:22, Jimmieson, Phil via use-livecode wrote:
> > > Hi folks,
> > > I’m experimenting with converting one of my LiveCode iPad Apps into a
> > > web version, to see how well it works, but there’s an issue that seems
> > > to be a deal-breaker. My iPad app takes a screenshot of the LiveCode
> > > stack when the user navigates away from the main card, so that the
> > > image can be used elsewhere in the app. This works fine on iPad, but I
> > > noticed that the web version of the app generates a javascript
> > > exception when I try to leave the main card. On checking the
> > > dictionary, I noticed that the export snapshot command is not listed as
> > > being supported on web. Is this correct? If so, is there an alternative
> > > that will work for web?
> >
> > So 'export snapshot from screen' is not supported - this is the form
> > which takes the pixel data from the actual (composited) screen buffer.
> >
> > However, there is an alternate form which is entirely internal to the
> > engine:
> >
> >     export snapshot from [ rect <rect> of ] <object>
> >
> > To use the internal form for a card you can do:
> >
> >     export snapshot from this card
> >
> > Or if you want a portion of the card:
> >
> >     export snapshot from rect 0,0,100,100 of this card
> >
> > Further there is an `at size <width>,<height>` clause which allows you
> > to specify the size you want the resulting image.
> >
> > The difference here is that the internal form replicates the same
> > process that the engine uses to render objects to a window - it renders
> > the given rectangle of the object into a rect of the specified size (or
> > the size of the rect/object if 'at size' is not specified).
> >
> > In contrast, the 'external' form has to ask the OS for the given
> > rectangle of the actual screen's framebuffer.
> >
> > Hope this helps,
> >
> > Mark.
> >
> > --
> > Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> > LiveCode: Build Amazing Things
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From phil at liverpool.ac.uk  Thu Aug  8 10:47:06 2024
From: phil at liverpool.ac.uk (Jimmieson, Phil)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2024 14:47:06 +0000
Subject: Export snapshot - is it usable on LiveCode web apps?
In-Reply-To: <d5f49680e326203d4237cd169c778080@livecode.com>
References: <1DA5481F-8C90-4F6A-8F8C-986D6E959817@liverpool.ac.uk>
 <d5f49680e326203d4237cd169c778080@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <6DEF60BF-8BBF-456C-8D12-217C7D631093@liverpool.ac.uk>

Hi folks,
Thanks to everyone who responded to my question. Where else would you get such support? And in particular, with what other development system would you get one of the actual architects of the system, responding to your question? LIveCode is something else.

OK, I have updated my screenshot code. I’m still getting a javascript exception, but it looks like it’s now caused by something else that web doesn’t like. Something that works ok on iPad. More investigation is required...


On 8 Aug 2024, at 13:39, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

Caution: This email originated from outside of the University. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognise the source of this email and know the content is safe. Check sender address, hover over URLs and don't open suspicious email attachments.

On 2024-08-08 10:22, Jimmieson, Phil via use-livecode wrote:
Hi folks,
I’m experimenting with converting one of my LiveCode iPad Apps into a web version, to see how well it works, but there’s an issue that seems to be a deal-breaker. My iPad app takes a screenshot of the LiveCode stack when the user navigates away from the main card, so that the image can be used elsewhere in the app. This works fine on iPad, but I noticed that the web version of the app generates a javascript exception when I try to leave the main card. On checking the dictionary, I noticed that the export snapshot command is not listed as being supported on web. Is this correct? If so, is there an alternative that will work for web?

So 'export snapshot from screen' is not supported - this is the form which takes the pixel data from the actual (composited) screen buffer.

However, there is an alternate form which is entirely internal to the engine:

  export snapshot from [ rect <rect> of ] <object>

To use the internal form for a card you can do:

  export snapshot from this card

Or if you want a portion of the card:

  export snapshot from rect 0,0,100,100 of this card

Further there is an `at size <width>,<height>` clause which allows you to specify the size you want the resulting image.

The difference here is that the internal form replicates the same process that the engine uses to render objects to a window - it renders the given rectangle of the object into a rect of the specified size (or the size of the rect/object if 'at size' is not specified).

In contrast, the 'external' form has to ask the OS for the given rectangle of the actual screen's framebuffer.

Hope this helps,

Mark.

--
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

--
Phil Jimmieson (He/Him)
University of Liverpool, Computer Science Department
Ashton Bldg, Ashton Street, Liverpool. L69 3BX
0151 795 4236


From colinholgate at gmail.com  Thu Aug  8 11:26:42 2024
From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2024 09:26:42 -0600
Subject: macOS Sequoia beta
In-Reply-To: <1332BBC2-A99C-4256-A0E1-C08937501009@gmail.com>
References: <1332BBC2-A99C-4256-A0E1-C08937501009@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DBB50713-CBF0-4CDB-AC61-FA0705789F79@gmail.com>

The LiveCodes I had are no longer working in Sonoma and Sequoia. I updated to LiveCode 9.6.12, and that seems to be working ok in the Sequoia beta 5.


> On Aug 7, 2024, at 9:59 PM, Marty Knapp via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Curious if anyone has tested LC on the macOS Sequoia beta and if so, have you found anything of concern?
> 
> ---
> Marty Knapp
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu Aug  8 11:30:41 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2024 15:30:41 +0000
Subject: iOS App Crashing On Close
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq988ZbpenKTtJ=VXzt=ymH=05sa5H5VCipC4_ScRNJZig@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8fb662aa-fdd5-4d58-b34f-46649a6c0682@researchware.com>
 <F0F12D58-8011-4F5C-92F4-727BC6648B44@iotecdigital.com>
 <2D8C8D7E-38F5-45FD-B825-BEFD2A5BC3AF@iotecdigital.com>
 <SN7PR12MB8028ACDCBC0064708AAA479AB9B82@SN7PR12MB8028.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
 <FED482FD-9297-43E0-8D1F-89457F69A346@gmail.com>
 <SN7PR12MB80287D90DB99184D6D7478C5B9B82@SN7PR12MB8028.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
 <0878A370-0515-4487-99B3-0DFA63C25CEE@gmail.com>
 <CA+JfEq988ZbpenKTtJ=VXzt=ymH=05sa5H5VCipC4_ScRNJZig@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2BFAAF38-C0B1-4AFC-B0B1-E1CE49F12A5B@iotecdigital.com>

I would dearly love to know how to symbolicate a crash log!!!

Bob S


On Aug 8, 2024, at 2:14 AM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

In any case, I think the best way to get this resolved is to send us the
crash log to see if we can symbolicate it


From panos.merakos at livecode.com  Thu Aug  8 11:44:00 2024
From: panos.merakos at livecode.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2024 18:44:00 +0300
Subject: [[ ANN ]] Release 9.6.13
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq-e8iguUoXVW1uWhWmnwwuFZtZAyqbxpysH4u_5f9QGNQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear list members,

We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 9.6.13 STABLE.

LiveCode 9.6.13 STABLE comes with 11 bugfixes and performance improvements
since the last stable release,
including support for building against API 34 on Android, and a new version
of Google's
in-app billing library used for in-app purchase. Both of these changes are
required for
new app submissions to the Google Play Store after the 31st of August 2024.
Moreover, The CEF browser version has been updated on Windows.

You can find more details on the bug fixes and improvements of this new
release here
<https://livecode.com/livecode-9-6-13-rc-1-google-play-store-and-cef-updates-2/>
.

You can find the release in your LiveCode account area or get it via the
automatic updater.

Enjoy!

Kind regards
The LiveCode Team


--

From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu Aug  8 12:01:32 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2024 16:01:32 +0000
Subject: Best way to convert color values
In-Reply-To: <1c7699e21085f1e95e3eea7f8d6a6bc984378c64@fourthworld.com>
References: <1c7699e21085f1e95e3eea7f8d6a6bc984378c64@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <D4B3B450-27F9-494A-BED0-47AAEB40E5D8@iotecdigital.com>

Yet another gem for my Validations library. I should probably separate out the conversion stuff as a conversions library. 

Bob S


> On Aug 7, 2024, at 11:14 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Paul Dupuis wrote:
> 
>> I can always write a routine to convert RGB to Hex and Hex to RGB, but
>> I am wondering if there is some clever trick in Livecode to do this.
>> 
>> For example: answer color -- returns RGB, but the htmlText of a line
>> wants <p bgcolor="#NNNNNN"> </p>
> 
> 
> If the target of the htmlText is a LiveCode field, I don't know of a method built into the LC engine, but it's easy enough to script:
> 
> function RGBtoHex pColor
>   repeat for each item tVal in pColor
>      get baseConvert(tVal, 10, 16)
>      if len(it) < 2 then put 0 before it
>      put it after tHex
>   end repeat
>   return "#"& tHex
> end RGBtoHex
> 
> 
> If the target of the htmlText is a browser widget, the browser engine's built-in "rgb" CSS function can do this:
> 
> <html>
>  <div style="background-color:rgb(130,30,230)"> Hello </div>
> </html>
> 
> --
> Richard Gaskin
> FourthWorld.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From merakosp at gmail.com  Thu Aug  8 12:26:24 2024
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2024 19:26:24 +0300
Subject: iOS App Crashing On Close
In-Reply-To: <2BFAAF38-C0B1-4AFC-B0B1-E1CE49F12A5B@iotecdigital.com>
References: <8fb662aa-fdd5-4d58-b34f-46649a6c0682@researchware.com>
 <F0F12D58-8011-4F5C-92F4-727BC6648B44@iotecdigital.com>
 <2D8C8D7E-38F5-45FD-B825-BEFD2A5BC3AF@iotecdigital.com>
 <SN7PR12MB8028ACDCBC0064708AAA479AB9B82@SN7PR12MB8028.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
 <FED482FD-9297-43E0-8D1F-89457F69A346@gmail.com>
 <SN7PR12MB80287D90DB99184D6D7478C5B9B82@SN7PR12MB8028.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
 <0878A370-0515-4487-99B3-0DFA63C25CEE@gmail.com>
 <CA+JfEq988ZbpenKTtJ=VXzt=ymH=05sa5H5VCipC4_ScRNJZig@mail.gmail.com>
 <2BFAAF38-C0B1-4AFC-B0B1-E1CE49F12A5B@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq9502GZkE1Qs1Ld28Oa4iH5LQi-3Y_JyNvW1yFWpgw0-A@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Bob,

To do this you need the debug symbols for the version of the engine that
was used to build the app - which are not publicly available.

Kind regards,
Panos

On Thu, 8 Aug 2024 at 18:31, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I would dearly love to know how to symbolicate a crash log!!!
>
> Bob S
>
>
> On Aug 8, 2024, at 2:14 AM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> In any case, I think the best way to get this resolved is to send us the
> crash log to see if we can symbolicate it
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From klaus at major-k.de  Fri Aug  9 05:10:23 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2024 11:10:23 +0200
Subject: Android API 34 and Android keystore
Message-ID: <218F032A-9FE0-4381-AFD0-11629A3EEAC8@major-k.de>

Hi all,

two questions:
1. In my "Android Studio" there are three options for SDK Tools for API level 34:
34
34-ext8
34-ext12

What should I install? 34 or all of them?

2. I need to update my Android freeware app to above mentioned API.
I had uploaded the first version to Google Play with a self signed key,
made with Android Studio, Google was content.

As far as I understood this, I need to use this key for every upload of that app.
And Google then takes care of (final) signing etc.

However I lost that keystore file during a hd crash a couple of months ago.
What should/can I do?

Any advice much appreciated, thank you!


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From sean at pidigital.co.uk  Fri Aug  9 11:56:01 2024
From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Sean Cole)
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2024 16:56:01 +0100
Subject: Annual price
Message-ID: <CABRqQSQJ=ioTOcLORYDoHedBKUeuQLKaf04y63YFQvR4mtWhGQ@mail.gmail.com>

As Create is billed annually, why does this page,
https://future.livecode.com/buy/, only show the monthly price? Why not show
the annual price at all? It is a common marketing practice that only comes
across as underhanded and untrustworthy.

Sean

From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Aug  9 12:24:56 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2024 16:24:56 +0000
Subject: Annual price
In-Reply-To: <CABRqQSQJ=ioTOcLORYDoHedBKUeuQLKaf04y63YFQvR4mtWhGQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABRqQSQJ=ioTOcLORYDoHedBKUeuQLKaf04y63YFQvR4mtWhGQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <690E07B4-5B19-4B33-A8B0-350CECCCC715@iotecdigital.com>

Jeeze can we just please stop with the criticisms??

Bob S


> On Aug 9, 2024, at 8:56 AM, Sean Cole via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> As Create is billed annually, why does this page,
> https://future.livecode.com/buy/, only show the monthly price? Why not show
> the annual price at all? It is a common marketing practice that only comes
> across as underhanded and untrustworthy.
> 
> Sean
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From jbv at souslelogo.com  Fri Aug  9 12:53:55 2024
From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com)
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2024 12:53:55 -0400
Subject: Annual price
In-Reply-To: <690E07B4-5B19-4B33-A8B0-350CECCCC715@iotecdigital.com>
References: <CABRqQSQJ=ioTOcLORYDoHedBKUeuQLKaf04y63YFQvR4mtWhGQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <690E07B4-5B19-4B33-A8B0-350CECCCC715@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <a2f925ccdd52eaea452373c6474cc415@souslelogo.com>

Le 2024-08-09 12:24, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode a crit :
> Jeeze can we just please stop with the criticisms??
> 
> Bob S
> 

Apart from criticism, it could be a nice option, especially for 
hobbyists,
to be able to pay a Classic license monthly, just like LC hosting, or 
other
development software line Max MSP : https://cycling74.com/shop/max.


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Aug  9 12:59:36 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2024 16:59:36 +0000
Subject: Annual price
In-Reply-To: <a2f925ccdd52eaea452373c6474cc415@souslelogo.com>
References: <CABRqQSQJ=ioTOcLORYDoHedBKUeuQLKaf04y63YFQvR4mtWhGQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <690E07B4-5B19-4B33-A8B0-350CECCCC715@iotecdigital.com>
 <a2f925ccdd52eaea452373c6474cc415@souslelogo.com>
Message-ID: <0888DD6E-AB22-463A-9BBF-965140149143@iotecdigital.com>

Understood, but LC and Kevin have made it crystal clear that these are the options available, they are willing to make some rare exceptions if they are contacted directly and NOT on this list, and finally that no more criticisms will be tolerated on this list. 

Bob S


> On Aug 9, 2024, at 9:53 AM, jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Le 2024-08-09 12:24, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode a écrit :
>> Jeeze can we just please stop with the criticisms??
>> Bob S
> 
> Apart from criticism, it could be a nice option, especially for hobbyists,
> to be able to pay a Classic license monthly, just like LC hosting, or other
> development software line Max MSP : https://cycling74.com/shop/max.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From scott at elementarysoftware.com  Fri Aug  9 15:56:19 2024
From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (scott at elementarysoftware.com)
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2024 12:56:19 -0700
Subject: Android API 34 and Android keystore
In-Reply-To: <218F032A-9FE0-4381-AFD0-11629A3EEAC8@major-k.de>
References: <218F032A-9FE0-4381-AFD0-11629A3EEAC8@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <6BC1D23E-E1A9-466B-9347-ED6B8AEF14EC@elementarysoftware.com>

As for which SDK variant to install… I don’t know but hope you will report back before I encounter this question :- )

As for the second question about the lost keystore… 
a few years ago I encountered a similar problem (I apparently overwrote my keystore with a different one and, by the time I needed to submit an update to GooglePlay, I had lots of  back-ups of the wrong keystore!) After reading up on things I came to the conclusion that there was no solution and that without the original keystore the app could no longer be updated in GooglePlay. The only way forward I could see was to “unpublish” the existing app and create a new app entry (with a different internal name but using the same storefront name.) This meant that the existing users couldn’t “update” their app without downloading the new app (searchable under the original name.) I can’t recall how I handled the user-data that the original app generated but I suspect that it was lost and needed to be recreated. (With this app it would have been mildly annoying but not unbearable. I can imagine use-cases where moving the data might be a big issue.)  This was a commercial app where the clients were known to me so it was possible to notify them and they could get the word out to their employees. 

This was a number of years ago so perhaps things have changed since then. I hope that you find a better solution, Klaus.

--
Scott Morrow

Elementary Software
(Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
web       https://elementarysoftware.com/
email     scott at elementarysoftware.com
booth    1-360-734-4701
------------------------------------------------------

> On Aug 9, 2024, at 2:10 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> two questions:
> 1. In my "Android Studio" there are three options for SDK Tools for API level 34:
> 34
> 34-ext8
> 34-ext12
> 
> What should I install? 34 or all of them?
> 
> 2. I need to update my Android freeware app to above mentioned API.
> I had uploaded the first version to Google Play with a self signed key,
> made with Android Studio, Google was content.
> 
> As far as I understood this, I need to use this key for every upload of that app.
> And Google then takes care of (final) signing etc.
> 
> However I lost that keystore file during a hd crash a couple of months ago.
> What should/can I do?
> 
> Any advice much appreciated, thank you!
> 
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode













From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Aug  9 16:03:42 2024
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2024 15:03:42 -0500
Subject: Android API 34 and Android keystore
In-Reply-To: <218F032A-9FE0-4381-AFD0-11629A3EEAC8@major-k.de>
References: <218F032A-9FE0-4381-AFD0-11629A3EEAC8@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <19138bd6530.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

I'm not sure about the SDK version but it probably won't hurt to install 
them all and let LC choose the one that's compatible. For the signing key, 
you can recreate it if you have the info and password you used for the 
original. I keep that info in my password vault just in case. If you don't 
have that info, then I'm not sure what to do. Google support could advise you.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On August 9, 2024 4:12:48 AM Klaus major-k via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> two questions:
> 1. In my "Android Studio" there are three options for SDK Tools for API 
> level 34:
> 34
> 34-ext8
> 34-ext12
>
> What should I install? 34 or all of them?
>
> 2. I need to update my Android freeware app to above mentioned API.
> I had uploaded the first version to Google Play with a self signed key,
> made with Android Studio, Google was content.
>
> As far as I understood this, I need to use this key for every upload of 
> that app.
> And Google then takes care of (final) signing etc.
>
> However I lost that keystore file during a hd crash a couple of months ago.
> What should/can I do?
>
> Any advice much appreciated, thank you!
>
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From pystcat at gmail.com  Fri Aug  9 16:13:23 2024
From: pystcat at gmail.com (Paul Pystcat)
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2024 16:13:23 -0400
Subject: Annual price
In-Reply-To: <a2f925ccdd52eaea452373c6474cc415@souslelogo.com>
References: <CABRqQSQJ=ioTOcLORYDoHedBKUeuQLKaf04y63YFQvR4mtWhGQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <690E07B4-5B19-4B33-A8B0-350CECCCC715@iotecdigital.com>
 <a2f925ccdd52eaea452373c6474cc415@souslelogo.com>
Message-ID: <3B06C993-0D74-4B67-84AB-2075E39C2932@gmail.com>

Funny thing is…?  If you choose a license and fill out the form, it will tell you the yearly price.
I agree with you on this one, Bob.

> On Aug 9, 2024, at 12:53 PM, jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Le 2024-08-09 12:24, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode a écrit :
>> Jeeze can we just please stop with the criticisms??
>> Bob S
> 
> Apart from criticism, it could be a nice option, especially for hobbyists,
> to be able to pay a Classic license monthly, just like LC hosting, or other
> development software line Max MSP : https://cycling74.com/shop/max.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From scott at elementarysoftware.com  Fri Aug  9 16:57:15 2024
From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (scott at elementarysoftware.com)
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2024 13:57:15 -0700
Subject: Android API 34 and Android keystore
In-Reply-To: <19138bd6530.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <218F032A-9FE0-4381-AFD0-11629A3EEAC8@major-k.de>
 <19138bd6530.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <6277C053-0A04-4674-A606-184BA19E9CE1@elementarysoftware.com>

Jacque, that seems like a more reasonable  (and hopeful) answer. In my case, I was certain that I knew all of that information yet was still unable to recreate a keystore that GooglePlay would accept. Likely, I was just mistaken.

--
Scott Morrow

> On Aug 9, 2024, at 1:03 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I'm not sure about the SDK version but it probably won't hurt to install them all and let LC choose the one that's compatible. For the signing key, you can recreate it if you have the info and password you used for the original. I keep that info in my password vault just in case. If you don't have that info, then I'm not sure what to do. Google support could advise you.
> 
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On August 9, 2024 4:12:48 AM Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> two questions:
>> 1. In my "Android Studio" there are three options for SDK Tools for API level 34:
>> 34
>> 34-ext8
>> 34-ext12
>> 
>> What should I install? 34 or all of them?
>> 
>> 2. I need to update my Android freeware app to above mentioned API.
>> I had uploaded the first version to Google Play with a self signed key,
>> made with Android Studio, Google was content.
>> 
>> As far as I understood this, I need to use this key for every upload of that app.
>> And Google then takes care of (final) signing etc.
>> 
>> However I lost that keystore file during a hd crash a couple of months ago.
>> What should/can I do?
>> 
>> Any advice much appreciated, thank you!
>> 
>> 
>> Best
>> 
>> Klaus
>> --
>> Klaus Major
>> https://www.major-k.de
>> https://www.major-k.de/bass
>> klaus at major-k.de
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Fri Aug  9 17:28:54 2024
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2024 17:28:54 -0400
Subject: Android API 34 and Android keystore
In-Reply-To: <6BC1D23E-E1A9-466B-9347-ED6B8AEF14EC@elementarysoftware.com>
References: <218F032A-9FE0-4381-AFD0-11629A3EEAC8@major-k.de>
 <6BC1D23E-E1A9-466B-9347-ED6B8AEF14EC@elementarysoftware.com>
Message-ID: <004301daeaa3$25a96c00$70fc4400$@net>

Klaus,

Once you lose the keystore you don't have the key pair used to generate the keystore entry. Scott is correct, you have to re-publish with all the headaches Scott enumerated.
Sorry man...

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of scott--- via use-livecode
Sent: Friday, August 09, 2024 3:56 PM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: scott at elementarysoftware.com
Subject: Re: Android API 34 and Android keystore

As for which SDK variant to install… I don’t know but hope you will report back before I encounter this question :- )

As for the second question about the lost keystore… a few years ago I encountered a similar problem (I apparently overwrote my keystore with a different one and, by the time I needed to submit an update to GooglePlay, I had lots of  back-ups of the wrong keystore!) After reading up on things I came to the conclusion that there was no solution and that without the original keystore the app could no longer be updated in GooglePlay. The only way forward I could see was to “unpublish” the existing app and create a new app entry (with a different internal name but using the same storefront name.) This meant that the existing users couldn’t “update” their app without downloading the new app (searchable under the original name.) I can’t recall how I handled the user-data that the original app generated but I suspect that it was lost and needed to be recreated. (With this app it would have been mildly annoying but not unbearable. I can imagine use-cases where moving the data might be a big issue.)  This was a commercial app where the clients were known to me so it was possible to notify them and they could get the word out to their employees. 

This was a number of years ago so perhaps things have changed since then. I hope that you find a better solution, Klaus.

--
Scott Morrow

Elementary Software
(Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
web       https://elementarysoftware.com/
email     scott at elementarysoftware.com
booth    1-360-734-4701
------------------------------------------------------

> On Aug 9, 2024, at 2:10 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> two questions:
> 1. In my "Android Studio" there are three options for SDK Tools for API level 34:
> 34
> 34-ext8
> 34-ext12
> 
> What should I install? 34 or all of them?
> 
> 2. I need to update my Android freeware app to above mentioned API.
> I had uploaded the first version to Google Play with a self signed 
> key, made with Android Studio, Google was content.
> 
> As far as I understood this, I need to use this key for every upload of that app.
> And Google then takes care of (final) signing etc.
> 
> However I lost that keystore file during a hd crash a couple of months ago.
> What should/can I do?
> 
> Any advice much appreciated, thank you!
> 
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode












_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Aug  9 19:09:46 2024
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2024 18:09:46 -0500
Subject: Android API 34 and Android keystore
In-Reply-To: <004301daeaa3$25a96c00$70fc4400$@net>
References: <218F032A-9FE0-4381-AFD0-11629A3EEAC8@major-k.de>
 <6BC1D23E-E1A9-466B-9347-ED6B8AEF14EC@elementarysoftware.com>
 <004301daeaa3$25a96c00$70fc4400$@net>
Message-ID: <1913967be90.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

I stand corrected, thanks.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On August 9, 2024 4:29:57 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Klaus,
>
> Once you lose the keystore you don't have the key pair used to generate the 
> keystore entry. Scott is correct, you have to re-publish with all the 
> headaches Scott enumerated.
> Sorry man...
>
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf 
> Of scott--- via use-livecode
> Sent: Friday, August 09, 2024 3:56 PM
> To: How to use LiveCode
> Cc: scott at elementarysoftware.com
> Subject: Re: Android API 34 and Android keystore
>
> As for which SDK variant to install I dont know but hope you will report 
> back before I encounter this question :- )
>
> As for the second question about the lost keystore a few years ago I 
> encountered a similar problem (I apparently overwrote my keystore with a 
> different one and, by the time I needed to submit an update to GooglePlay, 
> I had lots of  back-ups of the wrong keystore!) After reading up on things 
> I came to the conclusion that there was no solution and that without the 
> original keystore the app could no longer be updated in GooglePlay. The 
> only way forward I could see was to unpublish the existing app and create 
> a new app entry (with a different internal name but using the same 
> storefront name.) This meant that the existing users couldnt update 
> their app without downloading the new app (searchable under the original 
> name.) I cant recall how I handled the user-data that the original app 
> generated but I suspect that it was lost and needed to be recreated. (With 
> this app it would have been mildly annoying but not unbearable. I can 
> imagine use-cases where moving the data might be a big issue.)  This was a 
> commercial app where the clients were known to me so it was possible to 
> notify them and they could get the word out to their employees.
>
> This was a number of years ago so perhaps things have changed since then. I 
> hope that you find a better solution, Klaus.
>
> --
> Scott Morrow
>
> Elementary Software
> (Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
> web       https://elementarysoftware.com/
> email     scott at elementarysoftware.com
> booth    1-360-734-4701
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
>> On Aug 9, 2024, at 2:10AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> two questions:
>> 1. In my "Android Studio" there are three options for SDK Tools for API 
>> level 34:
>> 34
>> 34-ext8
>> 34-ext12
>>
>> What should I install? 34 or all of them?
>>
>> 2. I need to update my Android freeware app to above mentioned API.
>> I had uploaded the first version to Google Play with a self signed
>> key, made with Android Studio, Google was content.
>>
>> As far as I understood this, I need to use this key for every upload of 
>> that app.
>> And Google then takes care of (final) signing etc.
>>
>> However I lost that keystore file during a hd crash a couple of months ago.
>> What should/can I do?
>>
>> Any advice much appreciated, thank you!
>>
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Klaus
>> --
>> Klaus Major
>> https://www.major-k.de
>> https://www.major-k.de/bass
>> klaus at major-k.de
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From klaus at major-k.de  Sat Aug 10 03:48:40 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2024 09:48:40 +0200
Subject: Android API 34 and Android keystore
In-Reply-To: <1913967be90.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <218F032A-9FE0-4381-AFD0-11629A3EEAC8@major-k.de>
 <6BC1D23E-E1A9-466B-9347-ED6B8AEF14EC@elementarysoftware.com>
 <004301daeaa3$25a96c00$70fc4400$@net>
 <1913967be90.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <228C43E8-F13F-40A5-B7D9-EC3C9E01F112@major-k.de>

Hi all,

thank you for you input, I will now install everything related to API34.
And I will write to GOOGLE support, there MUST be another way for singing the app.
(Fingers crossed) :-/

Thanks to all, have a nice weekend!


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From williamdesmet at gmail.com  Sat Aug 10 03:56:51 2024
From: williamdesmet at gmail.com (William de Smet)
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2024 09:56:51 +0200
Subject: Export snapshot - is it usable on LiveCode web apps?
In-Reply-To: <6DEF60BF-8BBF-456C-8D12-217C7D631093@liverpool.ac.uk>
References: <1DA5481F-8C90-4F6A-8F8C-986D6E959817@liverpool.ac.uk>
 <d5f49680e326203d4237cd169c778080@livecode.com>
 <6DEF60BF-8BBF-456C-8D12-217C7D631093@liverpool.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <CAHFYGn5ErFf3=fP8zx8EcFoRwn5R_qfy7=hS8LX7xVHD1p4j+A@mail.gmail.com>

And in addition to this I have another question:
How do we download this created snapshot in a web browser?



greetings,

William




Op do 8 aug 2024 om 16:48 schreef Jimmieson, Phil via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:

> Hi folks,
> Thanks to everyone who responded to my question. Where else would you get
> such support? And in particular, with what other development system would
> you get one of the actual architects of the system, responding to your
> question? LIveCode is something else.
>
> OK, I have updated my screenshot code. I’m still getting a javascript
> exception, but it looks like it’s now caused by something else that web
> doesn’t like. Something that works ok on iPad. More investigation is
> required...
>
>
> On 8 Aug 2024, at 13:39, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> Caution: This email originated from outside of the University. Do not
> click links or open attachments unless you recognise the source of this
> email and know the content is safe. Check sender address, hover over URLs
> and don't open suspicious email attachments.
>
> On 2024-08-08 10:22, Jimmieson, Phil via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi folks,
> I’m experimenting with converting one of my LiveCode iPad Apps into a web
> version, to see how well it works, but there’s an issue that seems to be a
> deal-breaker. My iPad app takes a screenshot of the LiveCode stack when the
> user navigates away from the main card, so that the image can be used
> elsewhere in the app. This works fine on iPad, but I noticed that the web
> version of the app generates a javascript exception when I try to leave the
> main card. On checking the dictionary, I noticed that the export snapshot
> command is not listed as being supported on web. Is this correct? If so, is
> there an alternative that will work for web?
>
> So 'export snapshot from screen' is not supported - this is the form which
> takes the pixel data from the actual (composited) screen buffer.
>
> However, there is an alternate form which is entirely internal to the
> engine:
>
>   export snapshot from [ rect <rect> of ] <object>
>
> To use the internal form for a card you can do:
>
>   export snapshot from this card
>
> Or if you want a portion of the card:
>
>   export snapshot from rect 0,0,100,100 of this card
>
> Further there is an `at size <width>,<height>` clause which allows you to
> specify the size you want the resulting image.
>
> The difference here is that the internal form replicates the same process
> that the engine uses to render objects to a window - it renders the given
> rectangle of the object into a rect of the specified size (or the size of
> the rect/object if 'at size' is not specified).
>
> In contrast, the 'external' form has to ask the OS for the given rectangle
> of the actual screen's framebuffer.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Mark.
>
> --
> Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Build Amazing Things
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> --
> Phil Jimmieson (He/Him)
> University of Liverpool, Computer Science Department
> Ashton Bldg, Ashton Street, Liverpool. L69 3BX
> 0151 795 4236
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From sean at pidigital.co.uk  Sat Aug 10 10:43:01 2024
From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Sean Cole)
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2024 15:43:01 +0100
Subject: Annual price
In-Reply-To: <3B06C993-0D74-4B67-84AB-2075E39C2932@gmail.com>
References: <CABRqQSQJ=ioTOcLORYDoHedBKUeuQLKaf04y63YFQvR4mtWhGQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <690E07B4-5B19-4B33-A8B0-350CECCCC715@iotecdigital.com>
 <a2f925ccdd52eaea452373c6474cc415@souslelogo.com>
 <3B06C993-0D74-4B67-84AB-2075E39C2932@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABRqQSSzPa=H3GKH5V3By2o4kckiBD8qVrG8LyfY2znKGN+sFg@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry if you were offended, Bob, Paul, et al. Not my intention. Not
intended as a slur against LC either, although, after re-reading it, I can
see how it might appear to be. Sorry again. I AM 'the' *most*
appalling being the universe dust ever formed.

But... It was not a criticism. Perhaps if you re-read it you will note that
it was not calling into question the amount but the way it is displayed.
The page 'should' state clearly at the outset what the yearly price is AND
even perhaps make that number bigger with the equivalent 'monthly' amount
(which doesn't exist as you MUST pay in advance for the whole year - again,
to non-native English speakers may not be immediately obvious) underneath
in smaller text with an asterisk by it that says something like 'not
available as a monthly subscription'.

I was only throwing it out there as I had just received the 'Lone
Ranger/Coder' email and followed the link to the already familiar purchase
page with the two $36.67 offers. I'm not, I repeat, I am NOT disputing the
price as I think it is fair, even the non-30% discounted rate. It's by far
and away the best deal for Livecode I've seen as it covers every platform
and configuration. Even with the multiple-seat dispute, I have no contest
over it. This was an observation of how it is displayed on that page and
that page alone.

I'm off now to hang my head in shame and reflect on how miserable I have
made all your lives by making any comment at all. I humbly look forward to
you tearing me down further as I deserve.

Sean (IQ -5)

On Fri, 9 Aug 2024 at 21:13, Paul Pystcat via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Funny thing is…?  If you choose a license and fill out the form, it will
> tell you the yearly price.
> I agree with you on this one, Bob.
>
[image: GeoTrack]
<https://geotrack.email/?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=viralSignature>
Sender
notified with GeoTrack
<https://geotrack.email/?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=viralSignature>
[image: 43]

From dfe4 at cornell.edu  Sat Aug 10 11:15:55 2024
From: dfe4 at cornell.edu (David Epstein)
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2024 11:15:55 -0400
Subject: Icon id conflicts?
Message-ID: <3165639C-B331-490B-8A13-0E8C2861B307@cornell.edu>

I am moving a project I created in LC 5.5 to LC 10.0rc1.  Some buttons have their icon set to the id of an image found in a stack “in use.”  In some cases, this still works, but several buttons no longer look right in LC10, I assume because the icon number exists somewhere else in LC10.  How can I go about finding and imposing an id number for my image that will not encounter this conflict?

Alternatively, the dictionary says I can use an image name as a button’s icon, but the LC property inspector doesn’t let me enter non-numbers as an icon, and setting the icon to an image name from the message box has no effect (the image named is in a stack “in use”).

David Epstein

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat Aug 10 13:02:06 2024
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2024 12:02:06 -0500
Subject: Icon id conflicts?
In-Reply-To: <3165639C-B331-490B-8A13-0E8C2861B307@cornell.edu>
References: <3165639C-B331-490B-8A13-0E8C2861B307@cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <1913d3d7eb0.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

Did you try using the full path to the image when setting the icon by name 
in the message box?

What I've done in the past is adding 20 or 50 in front of the image ID 
which makes it a number in the thousands, so icon 1243 becomes 501243. That 
allows you to use the inspector, though everything created after that will 
have IDs in the 50 thousands.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On August 10, 2024 10:18:07 AM David Epstein via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I am moving a project I created in LC 5.5 to LC 10.0rc1.  Some buttons have 
> their icon set to the id of an image found in a stack in use.  In some 
> cases, this still works, but several buttons no longer look right in LC10, 
> I assume because the icon number exists somewhere else in LC10.  How can I 
> go about finding and imposing an id number for my image that will not 
> encounter this conflict?
>
> Alternatively, the dictionary says I can use an image name as a buttons 
> icon, but the LC property inspector doesnt let me enter non-numbers as an 
> icon, and setting the icon to an image name from the message box has no 
> effect (the image named is in a stack in use).
>
> David Epstein
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Sat Aug 10 16:05:48 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2024 20:05:48 +0000
Subject: Icon id conflicts?
In-Reply-To: <1913d3d7eb0.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <1913d3d7eb0.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <8E66D7D9-F970-4DA2-AC0D-64D0DB3F84C2@iotecdigital.com>

I agree with Jacque I always use the full path to the image file, and I always put the image on the same card as the button, unless the image is used in multiple buttons, then I put the image on the first card of the stack the button is in. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 10, 2024, at 10:04, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Did you try using the full path to the image when setting the icon by name in the message box?


From curry at pair.com  Sun Aug 11 03:55:10 2024
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2024 03:55:10 -0400
Subject: Annual price
In-Reply-To: <CABRqQSSzPa=H3GKH5V3By2o4kckiBD8qVrG8LyfY2znKGN+sFg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABRqQSSzPa=H3GKH5V3By2o4kckiBD8qVrG8LyfY2znKGN+sFg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <03049055-7ce3-4228-80e1-03907285323b@pair.com>

Sean:

 > I'm off now to hang my head in shame and reflect on how miserable
 > I have made all your lives by making any comment at all. I humbly
 > look forward to you tearing me down further as I deserve.
 > Sean (IQ -5)

You are important - You've made a real difference in coding here.
And such a great sense of humor! :) Have a good weekend.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
"PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
https://livecodeconsulting.com/


From curry at pair.com  Sun Aug 11 04:21:55 2024
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2024 04:21:55 -0400
Subject: Icon id conflicts?
In-Reply-To: <3165639C-B331-490B-8A13-0E8C2861B307@cornell.edu>
References: <3165639C-B331-490B-8A13-0E8C2861B307@cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <f8c9151a-f699-4c0d-a61c-748b1c69f7c7@pair.com>

David:

 > I am moving a project I created in LC 5.5 to LC 10.0rc1....
 > several buttons no longer look right in LC10, I assume because
 > the icon number exists somewhere else in LC10.

See also: 'resolve image' for handy lookup.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development -
"RESURRECT old LC projects! Broken stack? Bring it back."
https://livecodeconsulting.com/


From klaus at major-k.de  Sun Aug 11 07:43:31 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2024 13:43:31 +0200
Subject: revSpeak/speechSpeakutterance?
Message-ID: <B4CE18B2-20A5-48E8-AA31-F4BF6C85AFBA@major-k.de>

Hi friends,

I am currently exploring the revspeak stuff, but the dictionary
does in fact irritate me a lot?

Entry for revSpeak:
Type: command
Syntax: revSpeak phraseToSpeak
Associations: Speech library
Summary: Speaks text through the computer's speakers.Introduced2.0
OS: mac, windows

Entry for speechSpeakUtterance:
Type: handler
Syntax: speechSpeakUtterance(pString)
Associations: Speech Library
Summary: Synthesize text to speech
OS: mac, ios, android

Note the OS differences (while obviously using the SAME library)!?

Is this an error in the dictionary or does the "speechspeak..." stuff
really not work on Windows? Thanks for any insight!


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Aug 12 03:44:15 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2024 09:44:15 +0200
Subject: Android API 34 and Android keystore
In-Reply-To: <1913967be90.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <218F032A-9FE0-4381-AFD0-11629A3EEAC8@major-k.de>
 <6BC1D23E-E1A9-466B-9347-ED6B8AEF14EC@elementarysoftware.com>
 <004301daeaa3$25a96c00$70fc4400$@net>
 <1913967be90.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <F933518B-5DC7-4248-8A87-A21E38F653D0@major-k.de>

Hi all,

I got a response from the Google Play Store and it IS in fact possible
that Google will reset my (upload) key! Just ask nicely. :-)

In case you are interested, I will give you more and detailed info about
this process once I finally mastered all the neccessary steps.


Best from hot germany

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From heather at livecode.com  Mon Aug 12 06:34:54 2024
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2024 11:34:54 +0100
Subject: Live LiveCode Create demo - join us tomorrow
Message-ID: <3729C864-B794-413C-9204-DF8969CE78E0@livecode.com>

Hello List Folks,

Just to make you aware, we are holding an open webinar tomorrow, at 4pm UK time, where we will be demo'ing LiveCode Create and taking questions. If you'd like to take part please go here to sign up:

https://us02web.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_EAjwE614Q9Wi_366Y7b0vw

When you go to this link Zoom will tell you what time it is in your timezone.

Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com





From selander at tkf.att.ne.jp  Mon Aug 12 08:24:45 2024
From: selander at tkf.att.ne.jp (Tim Selander)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2024 21:24:45 +0900
Subject: Live LiveCode Create demo - join us tomorrow
In-Reply-To: <3729C864-B794-413C-9204-DF8969CE78E0@livecode.com>
References: <3729C864-B794-413C-9204-DF8969CE78E0@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <5e802682-bec2-70e7-2f6b-6f6d77b147c4@tkf.att.ne.jp>

Hi Heather,

Being in Japan, the time (midnight) is a little too late for this old 
man! Any chance it will be recorded? I would love to watch it later.

Thanks,

Tim Selander


On 2024/08/12 19:34, Heather Laine via use-livecode wrote:
> Hello List Folks,
> 
> Just to make you aware, we are holding an open webinar tomorrow, at 4pm UK time, where we will be demo'ing LiveCode Create and taking questions. If you'd like to take part please go here to sign up:
> 
> https://us02web.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_EAjwE614Q9Wi_366Y7b0vw
> 
> When you go to this link Zoom will tell you what time it is in your timezone.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Mon Aug 12 09:35:39 2024
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2024 09:35:39 -0400
Subject: Android API 34 and Android keystore
In-Reply-To: <F933518B-5DC7-4248-8A87-A21E38F653D0@major-k.de>
References: <218F032A-9FE0-4381-AFD0-11629A3EEAC8@major-k.de>
 <6BC1D23E-E1A9-466B-9347-ED6B8AEF14EC@elementarysoftware.com>
 <004301daeaa3$25a96c00$70fc4400$@net>
 <1913967be90.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <F933518B-5DC7-4248-8A87-A21E38F653D0@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <002b01daecbc$883c9750$98b5c5f0$@net>

Klaus,

GREAT NEWS! I stand corrected also. Please post the contact and procedure.
This will help all on the list. Thanks for doing the foot work to figure
this out.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
Of Klaus major-k via use-livecode
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2024 3:44 AM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Klaus major-k
Subject: Re: Android API 34 and Android keystore

Hi all,

I got a response from the Google Play Store and it IS in fact possible that
Google will reset my (upload) key! Just ask nicely. :-)

In case you are interested, I will give you more and detailed info about
this process once I finally mastered all the neccessary steps.


Best from hot germany

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de


_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From merakosp at gmail.com  Mon Aug 12 09:36:15 2024
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2024 16:36:15 +0300
Subject: revSpeak/speechSpeakutterance?
In-Reply-To: <B4CE18B2-20A5-48E8-AA31-F4BF6C85AFBA@major-k.de>
References: <B4CE18B2-20A5-48E8-AA31-F4BF6C85AFBA@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq9+eTFBa2i9JN3sZ32AhADLTYWJqN2=qb8x0Uj1JiD9kQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Klaus,

It is not the same library:

- The "revSpeak" one is the old speech library, implemented in the engine
level, available for Windows and macOS

- The "speechSpeakUtterance" is the new speech library, implemented in LCB,
available for macOS, Android, iOS

Also, each one of them has a slightly different feature set - see the
dictionary for more details.

Kind regards,
Panos
--

On Sun, 11 Aug 2024 at 14:44, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi friends,
>
> I am currently exploring the revspeak stuff, but the dictionary
> does in fact irritate me a lot?
>
> Entry for revSpeak:
> Type: command
> Syntax: revSpeak phraseToSpeak
> Associations: Speech library
> Summary: Speaks text through the computer's speakers.Introduced2.0
> OS: mac, windows
>
> Entry for speechSpeakUtterance:
> Type: handler
> Syntax: speechSpeakUtterance(pString)
> Associations: Speech Library
> Summary: Synthesize text to speech
> OS: mac, ios, android
>
> Note the OS differences (while obviously using the SAME library)!?
>
> Is this an error in the dictionary or does the "speechspeak..." stuff
> really not work on Windows? Thanks for any insight!
>
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Aug 12 09:56:51 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2024 15:56:51 +0200
Subject: revSpeak/speechSpeakutterance?
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq9+eTFBa2i9JN3sZ32AhADLTYWJqN2=qb8x0Uj1JiD9kQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B4CE18B2-20A5-48E8-AA31-F4BF6C85AFBA@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq9+eTFBa2i9JN3sZ32AhADLTYWJqN2=qb8x0Uj1JiD9kQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABB3D4B-536B-4CEA-8F81-E0CD219154FA@major-k.de>

Hi Panos,

> Am 12.08.2024 um 15:36 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hello Klaus,
> 
> It is not the same library:
> - The "revSpeak" one is the old speech library, implemented in the engine
> level, available for Windows and macOS
> - The "speechSpeakUtterance" is the new speech library, implemented in LCB,
> available for macOS, Android, iOS

ah, I see, thank you for clarification!

But then this should be made clear in the dictionary!
Entry for revSpeak:
...
Associations: Speech library
...

And:
...
Entry for speechSpeakUtterance:
...
Associations: Speech Library
...

See what I mean? That was puzzling me. :-)

> Also, each one of them has a slightly different feature set - see the
> dictionary for more details.
> 
> Kind regards,
> Panos
> --
> 
> On Sun, 11 Aug 2024 at 14:44, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hi friends,
>> 
>> I am currently exploring the revspeak stuff, but the dictionary
>> does in fact irritate me a lot?
>> 
>> Entry for revSpeak:
>> Type: command
>> Syntax: revSpeak phraseToSpeak
>> Associations: Speech library
>> Summary: Speaks text through the computer's speakers.Introduced2.0
>> OS: mac, windows
>> 
>> Entry for speechSpeakUtterance:
>> Type: handler
>> Syntax: speechSpeakUtterance(pString)
>> Associations: Speech Library
>> Summary: Synthesize text to speech
>> OS: mac, ios, android
>> 
>> Note the OS differences (while obviously using the SAME library)!?
>> 
>> Is this an error in the dictionary or does the "speechspeak..." stuff
>> really not work on Windows? Thanks for any insight!

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From merakosp at gmail.com  Mon Aug 12 10:23:30 2024
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2024 17:23:30 +0300
Subject: revSpeak/speechSpeakutterance?
In-Reply-To: <CABB3D4B-536B-4CEA-8F81-E0CD219154FA@major-k.de>
References: <B4CE18B2-20A5-48E8-AA31-F4BF6C85AFBA@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq9+eTFBa2i9JN3sZ32AhADLTYWJqN2=qb8x0Uj1JiD9kQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABB3D4B-536B-4CEA-8F81-E0CD219154FA@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq9MWYVWF-99KuQn7YrOO2CBoUu5isStKtWBt25c4R2HpA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Klaus,

Yes, indeed, we should make it clearer :)

Kind regards,
Panos
--

On Mon, 12 Aug 2024 at 16:58, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Panos,
>
> > Am 12.08.2024 um 15:36 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> >
> > Hello Klaus,
> >
> > It is not the same library:
> > - The "revSpeak" one is the old speech library, implemented in the engine
> > level, available for Windows and macOS
> > - The "speechSpeakUtterance" is the new speech library, implemented in
> LCB,
> > available for macOS, Android, iOS
>
> ah, I see, thank you for clarification!
>
> But then this should be made clear in the dictionary!
> Entry for revSpeak:
> ...
> Associations: Speech library
> ...
>
> And:
> ...
> Entry for speechSpeakUtterance:
> ...
> Associations: Speech Library
> ...
>
> See what I mean? That was puzzling me. :-)
>
> > Also, each one of them has a slightly different feature set - see the
> > dictionary for more details.
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > Panos
> > --
> >
> > On Sun, 11 Aug 2024 at 14:44, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi friends,
> >>
> >> I am currently exploring the revspeak stuff, but the dictionary
> >> does in fact irritate me a lot?
> >>
> >> Entry for revSpeak:
> >> Type: command
> >> Syntax: revSpeak phraseToSpeak
> >> Associations: Speech library
> >> Summary: Speaks text through the computer's speakers.Introduced2.0
> >> OS: mac, windows
> >>
> >> Entry for speechSpeakUtterance:
> >> Type: handler
> >> Syntax: speechSpeakUtterance(pString)
> >> Associations: Speech Library
> >> Summary: Synthesize text to speech
> >> OS: mac, ios, android
> >>
> >> Note the OS differences (while obviously using the SAME library)!?
> >>
> >> Is this an error in the dictionary or does the "speechspeak..." stuff
> >> really not work on Windows? Thanks for any insight!
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
>
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From prothero at ucsb.edu  Mon Aug 12 11:33:15 2024
From: prothero at ucsb.edu (William Prothero)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2024 08:33:15 -0700
Subject: Live LiveCode Create demo - join us tomorrow
In-Reply-To: <5e802682-bec2-70e7-2f6b-6f6d77b147c4@tkf.att.ne.jp>
References: <5e802682-bec2-70e7-2f6b-6f6d77b147c4@tkf.att.ne.jp>
Message-ID: <99326652-F477-4A3F-A86B-8D3BFF1B2324@ucsb.edu>

me, too,
Bill Prothero 
William A. Prothero, PhD
Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science
University of California, Santa Barbara

> On Aug 12, 2024, at 5:25 AM, Tim Selander via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Heather,
> 
> Being in Japan, the time (midnight) is a little too late for this old man! Any chance it will be recorded? I would love to watch it later.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Tim Selander
> 
> 
>> On 2024/08/12 19:34, Heather Laine via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hello List Folks,
>> Just to make you aware, we are holding an open webinar tomorrow, at 4pm UK time, where we will be demo'ing LiveCode Create and taking questions. If you'd like to take part please go here to sign up:
>> https://us02web.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_EAjwE614Q9Wi_366Y7b0vw
>> When you go to this link Zoom will tell you what time it is in your timezone.
>> Best Regards,
>> Heather
>> Heather Laine
>> Customer Services Manager
>> LiveCode Ltd
>> www.livecode.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Mon Aug 12 11:42:34 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2024 15:42:34 +0000
Subject: revSpeak/speechSpeakutterance?
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq9+eTFBa2i9JN3sZ32AhADLTYWJqN2=qb8x0Uj1JiD9kQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B4CE18B2-20A5-48E8-AA31-F4BF6C85AFBA@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq9+eTFBa2i9JN3sZ32AhADLTYWJqN2=qb8x0Uj1JiD9kQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5014404B-8C6E-4E22-86BF-525D35EB3E92@iotecdigital.com>

revSpeak works, speechSpeakUtterance does not. 

Bob S


> On Aug 12, 2024, at 6:36 AM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello Klaus,
> 
> It is not the same library:
> 
> - The "revSpeak" one is the old speech library, implemented in the engine
> level, available for Windows and macOS
> 
> - The "speechSpeakUtterance" is the new speech library, implemented in LCB,
> available for macOS, Android, iOS
> 
> Also, each one of them has a slightly different feature set - see the
> dictionary for more details.
> 
> Kind regards,
> Panos
> --
> 
> On Sun, 11 Aug 2024 at 14:44, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hi friends,
>> 
>> I am currently exploring the revspeak stuff, but the dictionary
>> does in fact irritate me a lot?
>> 
>> Entry for revSpeak:
>> Type: command
>> Syntax: revSpeak phraseToSpeak
>> Associations: Speech library
>> Summary: Speaks text through the computer's speakers.Introduced2.0
>> OS: mac, windows
>> 
>> Entry for speechSpeakUtterance:
>> Type: handler
>> Syntax: speechSpeakUtterance(pString)
>> Associations: Speech Library
>> Summary: Synthesize text to speech
>> OS: mac, ios, android
>> 
>> Note the OS differences (while obviously using the SAME library)!?
>> 
>> Is this an error in the dictionary or does the "speechspeak..." stuff
>> really not work on Windows? Thanks for any insight!
>> 
>> 
>> Best
>> 
>> Klaus
>> --
>> Klaus Major
>> https://www.major-k.de
>> https://www.major-k.de/bass
>> klaus at major-k.de
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Mon Aug 12 12:00:32 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2024 16:00:32 +0000
Subject: revSpeak/speechSpeakutterance?
In-Reply-To: <5014404B-8C6E-4E22-86BF-525D35EB3E92@iotecdigital.com>
References: <B4CE18B2-20A5-48E8-AA31-F4BF6C85AFBA@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq9+eTFBa2i9JN3sZ32AhADLTYWJqN2=qb8x0Uj1JiD9kQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5014404B-8C6E-4E22-86BF-525D35EB3E92@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <1F58FD2F-5223-4388-8188-90078376FC49@iotecdigital.com>

OIC it only works in Livecode Builder. NVM.

Bob S


On Aug 12, 2024, at 8:42 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

revSpeak works, speechSpeakUtterance does not.

Bob S


On Aug 12, 2024, at 6:36 AM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

Hello Klaus,

It is not the same library:

- The "revSpeak" one is the old speech library, implemented in the engine
level, available for Windows and macOS

- The "speechSpeakUtterance" is the new speech library, implemented in LCB,
available for macOS, Android, iOS

Also, each one of them has a slightly different feature set - see the
dictionary for more details.

Kind regards,
Panos


From merakosp at gmail.com  Mon Aug 12 13:04:10 2024
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2024 20:04:10 +0300
Subject: revSpeak/speechSpeakutterance?
In-Reply-To: <1F58FD2F-5223-4388-8188-90078376FC49@iotecdigital.com>
References: <B4CE18B2-20A5-48E8-AA31-F4BF6C85AFBA@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq9+eTFBa2i9JN3sZ32AhADLTYWJqN2=qb8x0Uj1JiD9kQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5014404B-8C6E-4E22-86BF-525D35EB3E92@iotecdigital.com>
 <1F58FD2F-5223-4388-8188-90078376FC49@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq_YyYtmc=nDXT0-PNZ+_sSbCkPrZ1hJZf7o=gyhS67BNA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Bob,

The speechSpeakUtterance should work. The library is *implemented *in LCB,
but its handlers (such as "speechSpeakUtterance") should be called from LCS
(LiveCode Script)

Make sure you initialize the library first by calling
speechInitializeLibrary.
See the dictionary for more details.

Kind regards,
Panos
--




On Mon, 12 Aug 2024 at 19:01, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> OIC it only works in Livecode Builder. NVM.
>
> Bob S
>
>
> On Aug 12, 2024, at 8:42 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> revSpeak works, speechSpeakUtterance does not.
>
> Bob S
>
>
> On Aug 12, 2024, at 6:36 AM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>
> wrote:
>
> Hello Klaus,
>
> It is not the same library:
>
> - The "revSpeak" one is the old speech library, implemented in the engine
> level, available for Windows and macOS
>
> - The "speechSpeakUtterance" is the new speech library, implemented in LCB,
> available for macOS, Android, iOS
>
> Also, each one of them has a slightly different feature set - see the
> dictionary for more details.
>
> Kind regards,
> Panos
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From heather at livecode.com  Mon Aug 12 13:05:41 2024
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2024 18:05:41 +0100
Subject: Live LiveCode Create demo - join us tomorrow
In-Reply-To: <99326652-F477-4A3F-A86B-8D3BFF1B2324@ucsb.edu>
References: <5e802682-bec2-70e7-2f6b-6f6d77b147c4@tkf.att.ne.jp>
 <99326652-F477-4A3F-A86B-8D3BFF1B2324@ucsb.edu>
Message-ID: <20DE6D0B-5382-4566-B795-85104C2F5BF1@livecode.com>

We'll record it. If you register for the webinar you will get access to the recording.

Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 12 Aug 2024, at 16:33, William Prothero via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> me, too,
> Bill Prothero 
> William A. Prothero, PhD
> Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science
> University of California, Santa Barbara
> 
>> On Aug 12, 2024, at 5:25 AM, Tim Selander via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Heather,
>> 
>> Being in Japan, the time (midnight) is a little too late for this old man! Any chance it will be recorded? I would love to watch it later.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Tim Selander
>> 
>> 
>>> On 2024/08/12 19:34, Heather Laine via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Hello List Folks,
>>> Just to make you aware, we are holding an open webinar tomorrow, at 4pm UK time, where we will be demo'ing LiveCode Create and taking questions. If you'd like to take part please go here to sign up:
>>> https://us02web.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_EAjwE614Q9Wi_366Y7b0vw
>>> When you go to this link Zoom will tell you what time it is in your timezone.
>>> Best Regards,
>>> Heather
>>> Heather Laine
>>> Customer Services Manager
>>> LiveCode Ltd
>>> www.livecode.com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Mon Aug 12 13:14:42 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2024 17:14:42 +0000
Subject: revSpeak/speechSpeakutterance?
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq_YyYtmc=nDXT0-PNZ+_sSbCkPrZ1hJZf7o=gyhS67BNA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B4CE18B2-20A5-48E8-AA31-F4BF6C85AFBA@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq9+eTFBa2i9JN3sZ32AhADLTYWJqN2=qb8x0Uj1JiD9kQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5014404B-8C6E-4E22-86BF-525D35EB3E92@iotecdigital.com>
 <1F58FD2F-5223-4388-8188-90078376FC49@iotecdigital.com>
 <CA+JfEq_YyYtmc=nDXT0-PNZ+_sSbCkPrZ1hJZf7o=gyhS67BNA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7DB6C5C2-CE41-41E3-8562-BD08FFDF2AC1@iotecdigital.com>

Thanks. As usual, I didn’t read the manual. It works, but I can’t get or change the voices. Not sure if I can get more voices. I tried, “I’m sorry Dave, I’m afraid I can’t let you do that.” but it sounded like Hal had most of his modules removed already. ;-)

I will poke around on the internet.

Bob S


On Aug 12, 2024, at 10:04 AM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

Hello Bob,

The speechSpeakUtterance should work. The library is *implemented *in LCB,
but its handlers (such as "speechSpeakUtterance") should be called from LCS
(LiveCode Script)

Make sure you initialize the library first by calling
speechInitializeLibrary.
See the dictionary for more details.

Kind regards,
Panos
--




On Mon, 12 Aug 2024 at 19:01, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

OIC it only works in Livecode Builder. NVM.

Bob S


On Aug 12, 2024, at 8:42 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

revSpeak works, speechSpeakUtterance does not.

Bob S


On Aug 12, 2024, at 6:36 AM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com><mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>
wrote:

Hello Klaus,

It is not the same library:

- The "revSpeak" one is the old speech library, implemented in the engine
level, available for Windows and macOS

- The "speechSpeakUtterance" is the new speech library, implemented in LCB,
available for macOS, Android, iOS

Also, each one of them has a slightly different feature set - see the
dictionary for more details.

Kind regards,
Panos

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From mkoob at rogers.com  Mon Aug 12 17:29:11 2024
From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2024 17:29:11 -0400
Subject: Live LiveCode Create demo - join us tomorrow
In-Reply-To: <20DE6D0B-5382-4566-B795-85104C2F5BF1@livecode.com>
References: <5e802682-bec2-70e7-2f6b-6f6d77b147c4@tkf.att.ne.jp>
 <99326652-F477-4A3F-A86B-8D3BFF1B2324@ucsb.edu>
 <20DE6D0B-5382-4566-B795-85104C2F5BF1@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <3ABB2DC8-EC1F-4A97-873E-D1EAED9C30A4@rogers.com>

Hi

Congratulations to Kevin and the team on getting to this point with LiveCode Create!

I will have to miss the webinar too.  I have a conflict with a work meeting then…  Stupid work meeting!  
               
 |             |
 |   Grrrr     |
 |             |
     |/
   😠
So this is not a critisim nor a demand, just a wish.   I wish there was a matinee demo - a second chance on a diferent day and a different time to see the Live Demo of the latest update with the new features and to be able ask questions regarding those.  

I know there is a lot of work around hosting these and then a staff person or 2 (and probably plus Heather or Kevin) has to get up early or stay up late.

So I will watch the recording and send my questions.  

Where should I direct my support queries now that LC Create has been launched?
Where should bug reports be posted from this point on.

Best regards,

Martin Koob

> On Aug 12, 2024, at 1:05 PM, Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> We'll record it. If you register for the webinar you will get access to the recording.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On 12 Aug 2024, at 16:33, William Prothero via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> me, too,
>> Bill Prothero 
>> William A. Prothero, PhD
>> Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science
>> University of California, Santa Barbara
>> 
>>> On Aug 12, 2024, at 5:25 AM, Tim Selander via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Heather,
>>> 
>>> Being in Japan, the time (midnight) is a little too late for this old man! Any chance it will be recorded? I would love to watch it later.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> Tim Selander
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 2024/08/12 19:34, Heather Laine via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> Hello List Folks,
>>>> Just to make you aware, we are holding an open webinar tomorrow, at 4pm UK time, where we will be demo'ing LiveCode Create and taking questions. If you'd like to take part please go here to sign up:
>>>> https://us02web.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_EAjwE614Q9Wi_366Y7b0vw
>>>> When you go to this link Zoom will tell you what time it is in your timezone.
>>>> Best Regards,
>>>> Heather
>>>> Heather Laine
>>>> Customer Services Manager
>>>> LiveCode Ltd
>>>> www.livecode.com
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From heather at livecode.com  Tue Aug 13 06:14:56 2024
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2024 11:14:56 +0100
Subject: Live LiveCode Create demo - join us tomorrow
In-Reply-To: <3ABB2DC8-EC1F-4A97-873E-D1EAED9C30A4@rogers.com>
References: <5e802682-bec2-70e7-2f6b-6f6d77b147c4@tkf.att.ne.jp>
 <99326652-F477-4A3F-A86B-8D3BFF1B2324@ucsb.edu>
 <20DE6D0B-5382-4566-B795-85104C2F5BF1@livecode.com>
 <3ABB2DC8-EC1F-4A97-873E-D1EAED9C30A4@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <0ECAB7D8-6240-470F-882D-833E3DCB8237@livecode.com>

Thanks Martin. We'll have a think whether we can do a repeat at a different time.

Support queries still go to support at livecode.com.

Feedback, bug reports and discussion around LiveCode Create specifically go here:

https://discourse.livecode.com

Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 12 Aug 2024, at 22:29, Martin Koob via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi
> 
> Congratulations to Kevin and the team on getting to this point with LiveCode Create!
> 
> I will have to miss the webinar too.  I have a conflict with a work meeting then…  Stupid work meeting!  
> 
> |             |
> |   Grrrr     |
> |             |
>     |/
>   😠
> So this is not a critisim nor a demand, just a wish.   I wish there was a matinee demo - a second chance on a diferent day and a different time to see the Live Demo of the latest update with the new features and to be able ask questions regarding those.  
> 
> I know there is a lot of work around hosting these and then a staff person or 2 (and probably plus Heather or Kevin) has to get up early or stay up late.
> 
> So I will watch the recording and send my questions.  
> 
> Where should I direct my support queries now that LC Create has been launched?
> Where should bug reports be posted from this point on.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Martin Koob
> 
>> On Aug 12, 2024, at 1:05 PM, Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> We'll record it. If you register for the webinar you will get access to the recording.
>> 
>> Best Regards,
>> 
>> Heather
>> 
>> Heather Laine
>> Customer Services Manager
>> LiveCode Ltd
>> www.livecode.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 12 Aug 2024, at 16:33, William Prothero via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> me, too,
>>> Bill Prothero 
>>> William A. Prothero, PhD
>>> Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science
>>> University of California, Santa Barbara
>>> 
>>>> On Aug 12, 2024, at 5:25 AM, Tim Selander via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Heather,
>>>> 
>>>> Being in Japan, the time (midnight) is a little too late for this old man! Any chance it will be recorded? I would love to watch it later.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> 
>>>> Tim Selander
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On 2024/08/12 19:34, Heather Laine via use-livecode wrote:
>>>>> Hello List Folks,
>>>>> Just to make you aware, we are holding an open webinar tomorrow, at 4pm UK time, where we will be demo'ing LiveCode Create and taking questions. If you'd like to take part please go here to sign up:
>>>>> https://us02web.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_EAjwE614Q9Wi_366Y7b0vw
>>>>> When you go to this link Zoom will tell you what time it is in your timezone.
>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>> Heather
>>>>> Heather Laine
>>>>> Customer Services Manager
>>>>> LiveCode Ltd
>>>>> www.livecode.com
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From curry at pair.com  Tue Aug 13 07:20:11 2024
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2024 07:20:11 -0400
Subject: Live LiveCode Create demo - Application Payments portal
In-Reply-To: <20DE6D0B-5382-4566-B795-85104C2F5BF1@livecode.com>
References: <20DE6D0B-5382-4566-B795-85104C2F5BF1@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <390f0894-2a70-47e6-94c7-82fa361b0059@pair.com>


I also cannot attend a Zoom meeting now -

My watch-later absentee request:

Please demo the Application Payments portal interface/process to:

- 'upload your monthly sales figures' including
- 'the monthly reports from the app store/s you are shipping through.'

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
"PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
https://livecodeconsulting.com/


From alexm at cogapp.com  Tue Aug 13 08:32:39 2024
From: alexm at cogapp.com (Alex Morrison)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2024 13:32:39 +0100
Subject: Difficulty making a Mac app that works on another laptop
Message-ID: <8369F85D-37D2-4E74-893A-1F844A8C6656@cogapp.com>

Hi there,

I’m a LiveCode licensee with a Mac runtime license trying to make a desktop app that I can distribute to a few other people. 

I’ve adjusted all the obvious settings and made an app. The resulting app works fine on my own laptop, no problem. 

But when I send it to another laptop it won’t launch. The system throws a dialog which says: 

‘The application "my app" can’t be opened.’ 

Have tried right-click ‘Open’ and it’s no better. Same dialog. 

Taking the same LiveCode stack and making what feels like it should be an identical app with the same settings on my colleague Ben’s LiveCode system (he’s also a LiveCode licensee with a Mac runtime license), the app works fine on a different laptop. Right-click ‘Open’ works as it should. 

I’m a bit baffled. Any suggestions? 

all best

Alex

P.S. Just to say how grateful I am to Kevin and the mighty LiveCode team for such a great product over so many years. Thank you. Thank you. 

—

cogapp

building a better online world

Alex Morrison
Founder/Director
(he/him)

cogapp.com <https://www.cogapp.com/>

From alex at tweedly.net  Tue Aug 13 09:08:59 2024
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2024 14:08:59 +0100
Subject: Live LiveCode Create demo - join us tomorrow
In-Reply-To: <0ECAB7D8-6240-470F-882D-833E3DCB8237@livecode.com>
References: <5e802682-bec2-70e7-2f6b-6f6d77b147c4@tkf.att.ne.jp>
 <99326652-F477-4A3F-A86B-8D3BFF1B2324@ucsb.edu>
 <20DE6D0B-5382-4566-B795-85104C2F5BF1@livecode.com>
 <3ABB2DC8-EC1F-4A97-873E-D1EAED9C30A4@rogers.com>
 <0ECAB7D8-6240-470F-882D-833E3DCB8237@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <f552bccf-f1d2-46b8-92a8-1216a9128952@tweedly.net>


On 13/08/2024 11:14, Heather Laine via use-livecode wrote:
> Thanks Martin. We'll have a think whether we can do a repeat at a different time.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Heather
>
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com

Rather than an entire repeat, maybe just have a Q&A session for those 
who couldn't attend the original, but have watched the recording. Should 
be just as effective, and less resource intensive.

Alex.




From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Tue Aug 13 09:34:35 2024
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2024 15:34:35 +0200
Subject: Difficulty making a Mac app that works on another laptop
In-Reply-To: <8369F85D-37D2-4E74-893A-1F844A8C6656@cogapp.com>
References: <8369F85D-37D2-4E74-893A-1F844A8C6656@cogapp.com>
Message-ID: <86C77D08-934C-42ED-99C7-31003993CDB4@m-r-d.de>

Does the app, which was created on your colleagues computer run on your Mac?
Do all Macs have the same OS installed? Do you both have the same version of LC installed?
Did you already check the settings under Privacy&Security?.


Von meinem iPad gesendet

> Am 13.08.2024 um 14:34 schrieb Alex Morrison via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi there,
> 
> I’m a LiveCode licensee with a Mac runtime license trying to make a desktop app that I can distribute to a few other people.
> 
> I’ve adjusted all the obvious settings and made an app. The resulting app works fine on my own laptop, no problem.
> 
> But when I send it to another laptop it won’t launch. The system throws a dialog which says:
> 
> ‘The application "my app" can’t be opened.’
> 
> Have tried right-click ‘Open’ and it’s no better. Same dialog.
> 
> Taking the same LiveCode stack and making what feels like it should be an identical app with the same settings on my colleague Ben’s LiveCode system (he’s also a LiveCode licensee with a Mac runtime license), the app works fine on a different laptop. Right-click ‘Open’ works as it should.
> 
> I’m a bit baffled. Any suggestions?
> 
> all best
> 
> Alex
> 
> P.S. Just to say how grateful I am to Kevin and the mighty LiveCode team for such a great product over so many years. Thank you. Thank you.
> 
> —
> 
> cogapp
> 
> building a better online world
> 
> Alex Morrison
> Founder/Director
> (he/him)
> 
> cogapp.com <https://www.cogapp.com/>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From craig at starfirelighting.com  Tue Aug 13 10:00:34 2024
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2024 10:00:34 -0400
Subject: Difficulty making a Mac app that works on another laptop
In-Reply-To: <86C77D08-934C-42ED-99C7-31003993CDB4@m-r-d.de>
References: <8369F85D-37D2-4E74-893A-1F844A8C6656@cogapp.com>
 <86C77D08-934C-42ED-99C7-31003993CDB4@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <888D0321-A83A-42F0-9737-D5C25A6BC177@starfirelighting.com>

Matthias:

"Does the app, which was created on your colleagues computer run on your Mac?”

The OP said he developed the app on his own machine.

Craig

> On Aug 13, 2024, at 9:34 AM, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Does the app, which was created on your colleagues computer run on your Mac?


From smk at anvic.net  Tue Aug 13 10:09:38 2024
From: smk at anvic.net (Simon Knight)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2024 15:09:38 +0100
Subject: Difficulty making a Mac app that works on another laptop
In-Reply-To: <8369F85D-37D2-4E74-893A-1F844A8C6656@cogapp.com>
References: <8369F85D-37D2-4E74-893A-1F844A8C6656@cogapp.com>
Message-ID: <B5BE18A3-8F02-4A56-BA4D-88446ACA1D81@anvic.net>

Hi,
Does the built application icon look as it should?'
Are the laptops all using the same chip set e.g. powerpc, intel or Arm?
Are the build settings correct?
Can you view package contents?

S

> On 13 Aug 2024, at 13:32, Alex Morrison via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi there,
> 
> I’m a LiveCode licensee with a Mac runtime license trying to make a desktop app that I can distribute to a few other people. 
> 
> I’ve adjusted all the obvious settings and made an app. The resulting app works fine on my own laptop, no problem. 
> 
> But when I send it to another laptop it won’t launch. The system throws a dialog which says: 
> 
> ‘The application "my app" can’t be opened.’ 
> 
> Have tried right-click ‘Open’ and it’s no better. Same dialog. 
> 
> Taking the same LiveCode stack and making what feels like it should be an identical app with the same settings on my colleague Ben’s LiveCode system (he’s also a LiveCode licensee with a Mac runtime license), the app works fine on a different laptop. Right-click ‘Open’ works as it should. 
> 
> I’m a bit baffled. Any suggestions? 
> 
> all best
> 
> Alex
> 
> P.S. Just to say how grateful I am to Kevin and the mighty LiveCode team for such a great product over so many years. Thank you. Thank you. 
> 
> —
> 
> cogapp
> 
> building a better online world
> 
> Alex Morrison
> Founder/Director
> (he/him)
> 
> cogapp.com <https://www.cogapp.com/>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Tue Aug 13 10:14:04 2024
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2024 16:14:04 +0200
Subject: Difficulty making a Mac app that works on another laptop
In-Reply-To: <888D0321-A83A-42F0-9737-D5C25A6BC177@starfirelighting.com>
References: <888D0321-A83A-42F0-9737-D5C25A6BC177@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <18213B94-0422-4EF7-8491-C97C9FB7E14C@m-r-d.de>

He also said, that  building the app on his colleagues Livecode installation creates an app that can be opened on his colleagues computer. And i wanted to know if that app can also be opened on the OP‘s computer. 

Von meinem iPad gesendet

> Am 13.08.2024 um 16:02 schrieb Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Matthias:
> 
> "Does the app, which was created on your colleagues computer run on your Mac?”
> 
> The OP said he developed the app on his own machine.
> 
> Craig
> 
>> On Aug 13, 2024, at 9:34 AM, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Does the app, which was created on your colleagues computer run on your Mac?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From georges at caen.one  Tue Aug 13 10:15:09 2024
From: georges at caen.one (Georges Malamoud)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2024 16:15:09 +0200
Subject: Difficulty making a Mac app that works on another laptop
In-Reply-To: <ACA21DED-7A02-4351-98B6-C24ED7886ECC@caen.one>
References: <46af36ff0f63bf8de9e97383565f6728@caen.one>
 <ACA21DED-7A02-4351-98B6-C24ED7886ECC@caen.one>
Message-ID: <EBED4F6F-6F98-4D46-B665-560B117F6965@caen.one>

Hello
It is a standard issue on Mac. Apple protects their systems for non officially code signed apps.
There are some procedures to circumvent this with your app
- if you are an Apple official developer (like me) you have to include a developer certificate in you app
instructions here
https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/c/246840
including
https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1088036-signing-and-notarizing-macos-apps-for-gatekeeper
or better yet
https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1122100-codesigning-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore-with-xcode-10-to-12
- if you are not… there are some solutions via Google (code signing Mac app) or here 
https://signmycode.com/resources/code-signing-with-mac-codesign-utility
but you must know what tou do


> But when I send it to another laptop it won’t launch. The system throws a dialog which says: 
> 
> ‘The application "my app" can’t be opened.’

From colinholgate at gmail.com  Tue Aug 13 12:41:35 2024
From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2024 10:41:35 -0600
Subject: Difficulty making a Mac app that works on another laptop
In-Reply-To: <EBED4F6F-6F98-4D46-B665-560B117F6965@caen.one>
References: <46af36ff0f63bf8de9e97383565f6728@caen.one>
 <ACA21DED-7A02-4351-98B6-C24ED7886ECC@caen.one>
 <EBED4F6F-6F98-4D46-B665-560B117F6965@caen.one>
Message-ID: <67BA4949-CF45-41D1-B868-889FC7A110A9@gmail.com>

I tried a standalone app on another computer, and sure enough got the message about it not being able to open. But, the usual work around of right-click, Open, does work.

From stephen at barncard.com  Tue Aug 13 13:11:11 2024
From: stephen at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2024 10:11:11 -0700
Subject: Live LiveCode Create demo - Application Payments portal
In-Reply-To: <390f0894-2a70-47e6-94c7-82fa361b0059@pair.com>
References: <20DE6D0B-5382-4566-B795-85104C2F5BF1@livecode.com>
 <390f0894-2a70-47e6-94c7-82fa361b0059@pair.com>
Message-ID: <CAFmQfHLQff0M01tkjZg6L47TgVi1s_0+Z1+GxNS4GCXZjJQ9AA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi gang,
I missed the webinar. I have been working on the other side of the clock.
Is it possible to see a recording?

sqb
--
Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA -
mixstream.org


On Tue, Aug 13, 2024 at 4:21 AM Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>
> I also cannot attend a Zoom meeting now -
>
> My watch-later absentee request:
>
> Please demo the Application Payments portal interface/process to:
>
> - 'upload your monthly sales figures' including
> - 'the monthly reports from the app store/s you are shipping through.'
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Curry Kenworthy
>
> Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
> "PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
> https://livecodeconsulting.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Tue Aug 13 13:19:47 2024
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2024 18:19:47 +0100
Subject: Live LiveCode Create demo - Application Payments portal
In-Reply-To: <CAFmQfHLQff0M01tkjZg6L47TgVi1s_0+Z1+GxNS4GCXZjJQ9AA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFmQfHLQff0M01tkjZg6L47TgVi1s_0+Z1+GxNS4GCXZjJQ9AA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D2692738-F442-4D5E-B58A-9C6ECB8E1A86@gmail.com>

Hi Stephen, I’ll jump in for Heather. If you registered you will be sent a link to the recording (she said). It was a good demonstration and answered a lot of questions.

Mark

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 13, 2024, at 6:12 PM, Stephen Barncard via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi gang,
> I missed the webinar. I have been working on the other side of the clock.
> Is it possible to see a recording?
> 
> sqb
> --
> Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA -
> mixstream.org
> 
> 
>> On Tue, Aug 13, 2024 at 4:21 AM Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> I also cannot attend a Zoom meeting now -
>> 
>> My watch-later absentee request:
>> 
>> Please demo the Application Payments portal interface/process to:
>> 
>> - 'upload your monthly sales figures' including
>> - 'the monthly reports from the app store/s you are shipping through.'
>> 
>> Best wishes,
>> 
>> Curry Kenworthy
>> 
>> Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
>> "PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
>> https://livecodeconsulting.com/
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From benr_mc at cogapp.com  Tue Aug 13 16:24:59 2024
From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2024 21:24:59 +0100
Subject: A Windows weirdness
Message-ID: <c9586a20-db21-4824-8bb9-a0814010e8c9@cogapp.com>

An app running nightly by schedule on a Windows VM stopped working when the IT 
department cracked down on security, downgrading the privileges of the user. 
When this was reversed - and they swore there were no other changes - it still 
didn't work properly because it failed to read some local data files.

It turned out that the issue was that I was reading the data as
	put URL format("binfile://%s", tPath) into tData

this was working, but now returned "can't open file". Changing the statement to
	put URL format("binfile:%s", tPath) into tData

fixed the issue, so it's fine. But my question would be does anyone know what 
would have changed on the system to make this statement, that used to work, do 
so no longer?

Many thanks,

Ben


From paul at researchware.com  Tue Aug 13 16:42:49 2024
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2024 16:42:49 -0400
Subject: A Windows weirdness
In-Reply-To: <c9586a20-db21-4824-8bb9-a0814010e8c9@cogapp.com>
References: <c9586a20-db21-4824-8bb9-a0814010e8c9@cogapp.com>
Message-ID: <44c4bdc0-b831-4733-9a52-a5ad34ccc334@researchware.com>

I'm guessing here:

Paths on local Windows systems are typically 
driveletter:folder\folder\...\file.extension
Window scan use UNC paths, such as:

|\\Server2\Share\Test\Foo.txt|
||
When we had our first customer who was extensively using UNC paths, our 
software broke until we updated it to allow for both style of Windows 
paths to be handled properly.

Windows backslash \ gets converted to a / in most LC file paths (for 
example, the result of a open or save file dialog

Perhaps the IT did something to require only UNC paths and the // after 
the binfile had it look for a server rather than a local file?


On 8/13/2024 4:24 PM, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode wrote:
> An app running nightly by schedule on a Windows VM stopped working 
> when the IT department cracked down on security, downgrading the 
> privileges of the user. When this was reversed - and they swore there 
> were no other changes - it still didn't work properly because it 
> failed to read some local data files.
>
> It turned out that the issue was that I was reading the data as
>     put URL format("binfile://%s", tPath) into tData
>
> this was working, but now returned "can't open file". Changing the 
> statement to
>     put URL format("binfile:%s", tPath) into tData
>
> fixed the issue, so it's fine. But my question would be does anyone 
> know what would have changed on the system to make this statement, 
> that used to work, do so no longer?
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Ben
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

From mark at livecode.com  Wed Aug 14 04:07:06 2024
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2024 09:07:06 +0100
Subject: A Windows weirdness
In-Reply-To: <c9586a20-db21-4824-8bb9-a0814010e8c9@cogapp.com>
References: <c9586a20-db21-4824-8bb9-a0814010e8c9@cogapp.com>
Message-ID: <c6dbb001df2c632897d061e2605b55e1@livecode.com>

On 2024-08-13 21:24, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode wrote:
> It turned out that the issue was that I was reading the data as
> 	put URL format("binfile://%s", tPath) into tData
> 
> this was working, but now returned "can't open file". Changing the 
> statement to
> 	put URL format("binfile:%s", tPath) into tData

Can you give some examples of what tPath is in these circumstances? Just 
to see what sort of paths the engine would have actually have been 
passing to Windows.

> fixed the issue, so it's fine. But my question would be does anyone 
> know what would have changed on the system to make this statement, that 
> used to work, do so no longer?

I suspect Paul is right that this is UNC related - there have been some 
security options added related to UNC paths to windows (buried somewhere 
in the registry) so it could be that but I'm not 100% sure (I'll do some 
experimentation later on).

What version of Windows does the afflicted machine have?

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things


From heather at livecode.com  Wed Aug 14 13:12:33 2024
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2024 18:12:33 +0100
Subject: Live LiveCode Create demo - Application Payments portal
In-Reply-To: <CAFmQfHLQff0M01tkjZg6L47TgVi1s_0+Z1+GxNS4GCXZjJQ9AA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20DE6D0B-5382-4566-B795-85104C2F5BF1@livecode.com>
 <390f0894-2a70-47e6-94c7-82fa361b0059@pair.com>
 <CAFmQfHLQff0M01tkjZg6L47TgVi1s_0+Z1+GxNS4GCXZjJQ9AA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <18760B0E-DDC2-44A4-91A7-F77D0851F67B@livecode.com>

Folks, it did take us all day owing to the number of questions but we now have a page up, with the recording and (I hope!) all your questions answered in text as well.

https://future.livecode.com/live-demo-your-questions-answered/

Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 13 Aug 2024, at 18:11, Stephen Barncard via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi gang,
> I missed the webinar. I have been working on the other side of the clock.
> Is it possible to see a recording?
> 
> sqb
> --
> Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA -
> mixstream.org
> 
> 
> On Tue, Aug 13, 2024 at 4:21 AM Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> I also cannot attend a Zoom meeting now -
>> 
>> My watch-later absentee request:
>> 
>> Please demo the Application Payments portal interface/process to:
>> 
>> - 'upload your monthly sales figures' including
>> - 'the monthly reports from the app store/s you are shipping through.'
>> 
>> Best wishes,
>> 
>> Curry Kenworthy
>> 
>> Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
>> "PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
>> https://livecodeconsulting.com/
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Wed Aug 14 17:46:38 2024
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2024 22:46:38 +0100
Subject: Live LiveCode Create demo - Application Payments portal
In-Reply-To: <18760B0E-DDC2-44A4-91A7-F77D0851F67B@livecode.com>
References: <20DE6D0B-5382-4566-B795-85104C2F5BF1@livecode.com>
 <390f0894-2a70-47e6-94c7-82fa361b0059@pair.com>
 <CAFmQfHLQff0M01tkjZg6L47TgVi1s_0+Z1+GxNS4GCXZjJQ9AA@mail.gmail.com>
 <18760B0E-DDC2-44A4-91A7-F77D0851F67B@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <BB2C620F-12B9-42D4-84B8-E1C7F6BED51A@gmail.com>

Brilliant, thanks Heather. 

> On 14 Aug 2024, at 6:12 PM, Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Folks, it did take us all day owing to the number of questions but we now have a page up, with the recording and (I hope!) all your questions answered in text as well.
> 
> https://future.livecode.com/live-demo-your-questions-answered/
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On 13 Aug 2024, at 18:11, Stephen Barncard via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi gang,
>> I missed the webinar. I have been working on the other side of the clock.
>> Is it possible to see a recording?
>> 
>> sqb
>> --
>> Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA -
>> mixstream.org
>> 
>> 
>> On Tue, Aug 13, 2024 at 4:21 AM Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> I also cannot attend a Zoom meeting now -
>>> 
>>> My watch-later absentee request:
>>> 
>>> Please demo the Application Payments portal interface/process to:
>>> 
>>> - 'upload your monthly sales figures' including
>>> - 'the monthly reports from the app store/s you are shipping through.'
>>> 
>>> Best wishes,
>>> 
>>> Curry Kenworthy
>>> 
>>> Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
>>> "PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
>>> https://livecodeconsulting.com/
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Wed Aug 14 17:50:57 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2024 21:50:57 +0000
Subject: Live LiveCode Create demo - Application Payments portal
In-Reply-To: <18760B0E-DDC2-44A4-91A7-F77D0851F67B@livecode.com>
References: <20DE6D0B-5382-4566-B795-85104C2F5BF1@livecode.com>
 <390f0894-2a70-47e6-94c7-82fa361b0059@pair.com>
 <CAFmQfHLQff0M01tkjZg6L47TgVi1s_0+Z1+GxNS4GCXZjJQ9AA@mail.gmail.com>
 <18760B0E-DDC2-44A4-91A7-F77D0851F67B@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <DDCB42E8-53C3-4458-9997-87C0BC560840@iotecdigital.com>

From what I was able to watch live, it looks amazing. I especially like how much coding the widgets can alleviate (bug free BTW) and I can always go back and look at and modify the code if need be. 

When the time comes to migrate I will definitely take a look at this. 

Bob S


> On Aug 14, 2024, at 10:12 AM, Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Folks, it did take us all day owing to the number of questions but we now have a page up, with the recording and (I hope!) all your questions answered in text as well.
> 
> https://future.livecode.com/live-demo-your-questions-answered/
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On 13 Aug 2024, at 18:11, Stephen Barncard via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi gang,
>> I missed the webinar. I have been working on the other side of the clock.
>> Is it possible to see a recording?
>> 
>> sqb
>> --
>> Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA -
>> mixstream.org
>> 
>> 
>> On Tue, Aug 13, 2024 at 4:21 AM Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> I also cannot attend a Zoom meeting now -
>>> 
>>> My watch-later absentee request:
>>> 
>>> Please demo the Application Payments portal interface/process to:
>>> 
>>> - 'upload your monthly sales figures' including
>>> - 'the monthly reports from the app store/s you are shipping through.'
>>> 
>>> Best wishes,
>>> 
>>> Curry Kenworthy
>>> 
>>> Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
>>> "PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
>>> https://livecodeconsulting.com/
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From dvglasgow at gmail.com  Thu Aug 15 07:09:14 2024
From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David V Glasgow)
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2024 12:09:14 +0100
Subject: Live LiveCode Create demo 
In-Reply-To: <DDCB42E8-53C3-4458-9997-87C0BC560840@iotecdigital.com>
References: <20DE6D0B-5382-4566-B795-85104C2F5BF1@livecode.com>
 <390f0894-2a70-47e6-94c7-82fa361b0059@pair.com>
 <CAFmQfHLQff0M01tkjZg6L47TgVi1s_0+Z1+GxNS4GCXZjJQ9AA@mail.gmail.com>
 <18760B0E-DDC2-44A4-91A7-F77D0851F67B@livecode.com>
 <DDCB42E8-53C3-4458-9997-87C0BC560840@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <F498B987-BD3E-4E4D-B728-C4FB0583B30B@gmail.com>

Just caught up on this and really enjoyed it.  Obviously the team has been working hard, and created something really special.  

My question is conceptual, not a technical/features based one, so I am raising it here because I would be really interested in folks views.

Kevin states towards the end of the video that substacks are still there and still work, but LC folks are moving away from that metaphor in favour of ‘layouts’.  Now I had watched the whole video with my mental model being ‘layouts’ correspond to a (very smart)  group on a card.   In light of what Kevin said that must be wrong, but I can’t quite see how the Create metaphor maps onto  the ol’ Xtalk hierarchy of things.

Cheers

David G




From paul at researchware.com  Thu Aug 15 08:03:27 2024
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2024 08:03:27 -0400
Subject: Live LiveCode Create demo
In-Reply-To: <F498B987-BD3E-4E4D-B728-C4FB0583B30B@gmail.com>
References: <20DE6D0B-5382-4566-B795-85104C2F5BF1@livecode.com>
 <390f0894-2a70-47e6-94c7-82fa361b0059@pair.com>
 <CAFmQfHLQff0M01tkjZg6L47TgVi1s_0+Z1+GxNS4GCXZjJQ9AA@mail.gmail.com>
 <18760B0E-DDC2-44A4-91A7-F77D0851F67B@livecode.com>
 <DDCB42E8-53C3-4458-9997-87C0BC560840@iotecdigital.com>
 <F498B987-BD3E-4E4D-B728-C4FB0583B30B@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fe699668-4382-4bfb-8496-8a094a6b93ed@researchware.com>

Just speaking for myself.

I use substacks for different windows (modal or nonmodal) in my 
application. A substack rarely has more than one card, which has the 
controls for that window laid out the way I want them. Also, substacks 
can just be script libraries or other sorts of libraries (icons, images, 
etc.)

So I already use substack as different layouts in native apps. If moving 
to the web, they effectively become different "pages" (or screens or 
layouts of controls)

I think I have 1 app where I still use multiple cards to store data, one 
record per card. If I have a chance to redo this, the data will be 
stored in a property or variable and the stack will have a single "card" 
or layout where the current record of data is displayed as the user 
navigates through it.

For the most part, I already think of a substack as synonymous with a 
window/screen/page layout of controls for an app.


On 8/15/2024 7:09 AM, David V Glasgow via use-livecode wrote:
> Just caught up on this and really enjoyed it.  Obviously the team has been working hard, and created something really special.
>
> My question is conceptual, not a technical/features based one, so I am raising it here because I would be really interested in folks views.
>
> Kevin states towards the end of the video that substacks are still there and still work, but LC folks are moving away from that metaphor in favour of layouts.  Now I had watched the whole video with my mental model being layouts correspond to a (very smart)  group on a card.   In light of what Kevin said that must be wrong, but I cant quite see how the Create metaphor maps onto  the ol Xtalk hierarchy of things.
>
> Cheers
>
> David G
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From kevin at livecode.com  Thu Aug 15 08:57:05 2024
From: kevin at livecode.com (Kevin Miller)
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2024 13:57:05 +0100
Subject: Live LiveCode Create demo
In-Reply-To: <fe699668-4382-4bfb-8496-8a094a6b93ed@researchware.com>
References: <20DE6D0B-5382-4566-B795-85104C2F5BF1@livecode.com>
 <390f0894-2a70-47e6-94c7-82fa361b0059@pair.com>
 <CAFmQfHLQff0M01tkjZg6L47TgVi1s_0+Z1+GxNS4GCXZjJQ9AA@mail.gmail.com>
 <18760B0E-DDC2-44A4-91A7-F77D0851F67B@livecode.com>
 <DDCB42E8-53C3-4458-9997-87C0BC560840@iotecdigital.com>
 <F498B987-BD3E-4E4D-B728-C4FB0583B30B@gmail.com>
 <fe699668-4382-4bfb-8496-8a094a6b93ed@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <2EB1CDE8-0302-482C-9264-1317676EA54F@livecode.com>

Yes this is a great question, thanks for posting it.

We're looking to simplify the metaphors we use a little. The card/stack thing just doesn't seem to make as much sense as it did.

One of the main uses was to create a background group to have different records on each screen. That’s not really relevant in the new model where data is stored in the cloud data store and bound to objects.

Another major use was to place navigation controls on a screen and use a background group to do that. While in the current DP you do place those controls, we are working to create global navigation feature at project level which simply applies such a navigation bar without the need to drag them out onto each layout.

You then have "cards" as a concept meaning something entirely different in Material design, which is the design framework we've applied to Create.

All in all it just seems simpler to talk about a screen as a layout. Create multiple layouts and navigate between them. New users do appear to universally understand what a layout is (without the explanation that card/stack required).

All of that said, the underlying card/stack system is still there and a layout is really just a stack under the hood. So you can go on doing things the old way if you want to it will all work.

Kind regards, 

Kevin 

Kevin Miller ~ kevin at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ 
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things 




On 15/08/2024, 13:03, "use-livecode on behalf of Paul Dupuis via use-livecode" <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> on behalf of use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:



Just speaking for myself.


I use substacks for different windows (modal or nonmodal) in my 
application. A substack rarely has more than one card, which has the 
controls for that window laid out the way I want them. Also, substacks 
can just be script libraries or other sorts of libraries (icons, images, 
etc.)


So I already use substack as different layouts in native apps. If moving 
to the web, they effectively become different "pages" (or screens or 
layouts of controls)


I think I have 1 app where I still use multiple cards to store data, one 
record per card. If I have a chance to redo this, the data will be 
stored in a property or variable and the stack will have a single "card" 
or layout where the current record of data is displayed as the user 
navigates through it.


For the most part, I already think of a substack as synonymous with a 
window/screen/page layout of controls for an app.




On 8/15/2024 7:09 AM, David V Glasgow via use-livecode wrote:
> Just caught up on this and really enjoyed it. Obviously the team has been working hard, and created something really special.
>
> My question is conceptual, not a technical/features based one, so I am raising it here because I would be really interested in folks views.
>
> Kevin states towards the end of the video that substacks are still there and still work, but LC folks are moving away from that metaphor in favour of ‘layouts’. Now I had watched the whole video with my mental model being ‘layouts’ correspond to a (very smart) group on a card. In light of what Kevin said that must be wrong, but I can’t quite see how the Create metaphor maps onto the ol’ Xtalk hierarchy of things.
>
> Cheers
>
> David G
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode <http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode>




_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode <http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode>






From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Aug 15 09:36:30 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2024 15:36:30 +0200
Subject: Problems with revSetSpeechVoice
Message-ID: <0E404CCA-84B4-436D-BCC3-21C9293DD111@major-k.de>

Hi all,

I am currently working with the revSpeak library (needs to be 
crossplatform Mac and Win) and facing serious problems.

I have a field with all available voices, that I fill with:
-------------------------------------------
on mouseUp 
   put revSpeechVoices() into tVoices
   sort tVoices
   put textdecode(tVoices,"utf8") into fld "fi_voices"
end mouseUp
-------------------------------------------
textdecode is neccessary to preserve UMLAUTS like in:
Sandy (Französisch (Kanada))
## Sandy (French, Canada))

Now all the french voices do NOT work!
I tried:
----------------------
revSetSpeechVoice tVoice
## Where tVoice of course contains the above mentioned voice
----------------------

I even tried:
----------------------
put textencode(tVoice,"native") into tVoice2
revSetSpeechVoice tVoice2
----------------------
No dice, always reverts back to the "default" voice on my Mac.

Anything I am overlooking or is this a bug?
Did not find anthing in the "Quality center".

Any hint very welcome, thanks!


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From mark at livecode.com  Thu Aug 15 09:53:47 2024
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2024 14:53:47 +0100
Subject: Problems with revSetSpeechVoice
In-Reply-To: <0E404CCA-84B4-436D-BCC3-21C9293DD111@major-k.de>
References: <0E404CCA-84B4-436D-BCC3-21C9293DD111@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <f16bc770915f9f4c307a2208cbe893bb@livecode.com>

On 2024-08-15 14:36, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I am currently working with the revSpeak library (needs to be
> crossplatform Mac and Win) and facing serious problems.
> 
> I have a field with all available voices, that I fill with:
> -------------------------------------------
> on mouseUp
>    put revSpeechVoices() into tVoices
>    sort tVoices
>    put textdecode(tVoices,"utf8") into fld "fi_voices"
> end mouseUp
> -------------------------------------------
> textdecode is neccessary to preserve UMLAUTS like in:
> Sandy (Franzsisch (Kanada))
> ## Sandy (French, Canada))
> 
> Now all the french voices do NOT work!
> I tried:
> ----------------------
> revSetSpeechVoice tVoice
> ## Where tVoice of course contains the above mentioned voice
> ----------------------
> 
> I even tried:
> ----------------------
> put textencode(tVoice,"native") into tVoice2
> revSetSpeechVoice tVoice2
> ----------------------
> No dice, always reverts back to the "default" voice on my Mac.

Did you try:

----------------------
put textencode(tVoice,"utf8") into tVoice2
revSetSpeechVoice tVoice2
----------------------

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things


From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Aug 15 10:00:04 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2024 16:00:04 +0200
Subject: Problems with revSetSpeechVoice
In-Reply-To: <f16bc770915f9f4c307a2208cbe893bb@livecode.com>
References: <0E404CCA-84B4-436D-BCC3-21C9293DD111@major-k.de>
 <f16bc770915f9f4c307a2208cbe893bb@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <9E7C2174-0D19-4D2C-8BF5-5B335A91E639@major-k.de>

Hi Mark,

> Am 15.08.2024 um 15:53 schrieb Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> On 2024-08-15 14:36, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> I am currently working with the revSpeak library (needs to be
>> crossplatform Mac and Win) and facing serious problems.
>> I have a field with all available voices, that I fill with:
>> -------------------------------------------
>> on mouseUp
>>   put revSpeechVoices() into tVoices
>>   sort tVoices
>>   put textdecode(tVoices,"utf8") into fld "fi_voices"
>> end mouseUp
>> -------------------------------------------
>> textdecode is neccessary to preserve UMLAUTS like in:
>> Sandy (Französisch (Kanada))
>> ## Sandy (French, Canada))
>> Now all the french voices do NOT work!
>> I tried:
>> ----------------------
>> revSetSpeechVoice tVoice
>> ## Where tVoice of course contains the above mentioned voice
>> ----------------------
>> I even tried:
>> ----------------------
>> put textencode(tVoice,"native") into tVoice2
>> revSetSpeechVoice tVoice2
>> ----------------------
>> No dice, always reverts back to the "default" voice on my Mac.
> 
> Did you try:
> ----------------------
> put textencode(tVoice,"utf8") into tVoice2
> revSetSpeechVoice tVoice2
> ----------------------

obviously not, but that was the missing piece, works now!
Thanks a bunch! :-)

> Warmest Regards,
> 
> Mark.

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From georges at caen.one  Thu Aug 15 10:04:28 2024
From: georges at caen.one (Georges Malamoud)
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2024 16:04:28 +0200
Subject: Live LiveCode Create demo
In-Reply-To: <C42EF103-4DDF-4479-B4A4-C78EBA3D6C13@caen.one>
References: <46af36ff0f63bf8de9e97383565f6728@caen.one>
 <ACA21DED-7A02-4351-98B6-C24ED7886ECC@caen.one>
 <EBED4F6F-6F98-4D46-B665-560B117F6965@caen.one>
 <C42EF103-4DDF-4479-B4A4-C78EBA3D6C13@caen.one>
Message-ID: <E9FF0A53-CC3F-4603-B2FC-F6B726E03966@caen.one>

Layouts, a little bit like this, then ? (Swift for Apple) ?
https://developer.apple.com/documentation/uikit/views_and_controls/collection_views/layouts


From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Aug 15 11:40:39 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2024 17:40:39 +0200
Subject: Android API 34 and Android keystore
In-Reply-To: <002b01daecbc$883c9750$98b5c5f0$@net>
References: <218F032A-9FE0-4381-AFD0-11629A3EEAC8@major-k.de>
 <6BC1D23E-E1A9-466B-9347-ED6B8AEF14EC@elementarysoftware.com>
 <004301daeaa3$25a96c00$70fc4400$@net>
 <1913967be90.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <F933518B-5DC7-4248-8A87-A21E38F653D0@major-k.de>
 <002b01daecbc$883c9750$98b5c5f0$@net>
Message-ID: <751A7CE6-7021-499E-B740-7E6C6D82600B@major-k.de>

Hi all,

> Am 12.08.2024 um 15:35 schrieb Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Klaus,
> 
> GREAT NEWS! I stand corrected also. Please post the contact and procedure.
> This will help all on the list. Thanks for doing the foot work to figure
> this out.
> 
> Ralph DiMola

sorry for the late response...

Contact:
On the Google Play Store HELP pages you will find a button "Contact" at the 
bottom of the page. I just clicked that and asked my question.

Procedere, I don't think I am revelaing a secret when I quote the answer mail here:
--------------------------------------------------------------------
>     • Follow the instructions in the Android Studio Help Center to generate a new key. It must be different from any previous keys, be a 2048-bit RSA key, and have 25-year validity. Alternatively, you can use the following command line to generate a new key:
>         • keytool -genkeypair -alias upload -keyalg RSA -keysize 2048 -validity 9125 -keystore keystore.jks

>     • Export the certificate for that key to PEM format:
>         • keytool -export -rfc -alias upload -file upload_certificate.pem -keystore keystore.jks 

>     • Once you have generated a PEM file please follow the steps below:
>         • Go to Setup > App integrity > App Signing.
>         • Request Upload key reset.
>         • Give a reason why you’re requesting a key reset.
>         • Enter PEM file.
>         • Click Request.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Hope that helps.
Will do this over the weekend...


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Aug 15 13:51:36 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2024 19:51:36 +0200
Subject: Android API 34 and Android keystore
In-Reply-To: <751A7CE6-7021-499E-B740-7E6C6D82600B@major-k.de>
References: <218F032A-9FE0-4381-AFD0-11629A3EEAC8@major-k.de>
 <6BC1D23E-E1A9-466B-9347-ED6B8AEF14EC@elementarysoftware.com>
 <004301daeaa3$25a96c00$70fc4400$@net>
 <1913967be90.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <F933518B-5DC7-4248-8A87-A21E38F653D0@major-k.de>
 <002b01daecbc$883c9750$98b5c5f0$@net>
 <751A7CE6-7021-499E-B740-7E6C6D82600B@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <0EDE5423-38FB-4995-A59F-1E2A7230C42D@major-k.de>

Forgot to mention that one should wait 48 hours after uploading the PEM file,
so the system has time to "get" fully. :-D

> Am 15.08.2024 um 17:40 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
>> Am 12.08.2024 um 15:35 schrieb Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Klaus,
>> 
>> GREAT NEWS! I stand corrected also. Please post the contact and procedure.
>> This will help all on the list. Thanks for doing the foot work to figure
>> this out.
>> 
>> Ralph DiMola
> 
> sorry for the late response...
> 
> Contact:
> On the Google Play Store HELP pages you will find a button "Contact" at the 
> bottom of the page. I just clicked that and asked my question.
> 
> Procedere, I don't think I am revelaing a secret when I quote the answer mail here:
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>    • Follow the instructions in the Android Studio Help Center to generate a new key. It must be different from any previous keys, be a 2048-bit RSA key, and have 25-year validity. Alternatively, you can use the following command line to generate a new key:
>>        • keytool -genkeypair -alias upload -keyalg RSA -keysize 2048 -validity 9125 -keystore keystore.jks
> 
>>    • Export the certificate for that key to PEM format:
>>        • keytool -export -rfc -alias upload -file upload_certificate.pem -keystore keystore.jks
> 
>>    • Once you have generated a PEM file please follow the steps below:
>>        • Go to Setup > App integrity > App Signing.
>>        • Request Upload key reset.
>>        • Give a reason why you’re requesting a key reset.
>>        • Enter PEM file.
>>        • Click Request.
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au  Fri Aug 16 02:34:33 2024
From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2024 06:34:33 +0000
Subject: Polygrid or polylist as datagrid form replacement?
Message-ID: <ME3PR01MB80823F09254D42CDF5123A7FB7812@ME3PR01MB8082.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>

I’ve been using datagrid form objects for a number of years and am investigating the viability of replacing them with polygrids or polylist widgets but on first look it seems that both have fixed/uniform row heights, whereas datagrid form rows can dynamically resize their height according to their content - ie individual rows can have different heights.

Is that right, or am I missing something?

Terry

From benr_mc at cogapp.com  Fri Aug 16 03:32:10 2024
From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2024 08:32:10 +0100
Subject: Issues with (64bit?) Windows MySQL driver
Message-ID: <13f72f4a-7dcc-4dc3-8bb5-e1e1c931ec96@cogapp.com>

I have a tool (a LiveCode standalone) running on Windows, which every night 
drops and recreates a database on a remote MySQL server, (about 350MB, 50 
tables). Running for many years.

About a year ago, we started to see a problem where sometimes the nightly 
build would fail, part-way through the process. The routine involves creating 
and populating tables, then creating indexes. Depending when the problem hits, 
the initial error is either

	Connection was killed
or
	Lost connection to MySQL server during query

All subsequent calls to revdb_execute get the error

	MySQL server has gone away

I tried splitting the build into sections, so that the code opens the 
connection to a database builds some of the tables, then closes the 
connection, and opens a new connection to add more tables. There was no 
evidence that this made the issue occur less frequently; and once it hit, 
subsequent attempts to open a connection would get the error

	Can't connect to MySQL server on '<address>' (0)


When this was happening maybe a couple of times per month (on average) it 
didn't matter too much (the system is designed to be resilient, if the data 
wasn't refreshed one day, it would be the next). I thought it might be network 
glitches.

Recently IT tightened security on the machine where the tool runs; and since 
then we get this problem nine times of out ten. They say the only change made 
was to remove the admin privileges of the user account, and have now reversed 
that change; however, this problem has remained since. Another problem that 
arrived at the same time, reported here as "a windows weirdness", seems (per 
Paul Dupuis and Mark Waddingham) to be related to UNC paths, and possibly to 
security policies.

Does anyone have a suggestion for how conditions could affect this? Is there 
any way to get more detailed information out of the rev database driver about 
what's happening?

TIA,

Ben


From mark at livecode.com  Fri Aug 16 04:14:53 2024
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2024 09:14:53 +0100
Subject: Issues with (64bit?) Windows MySQL driver
In-Reply-To: <13f72f4a-7dcc-4dc3-8bb5-e1e1c931ec96@cogapp.com>
References: <13f72f4a-7dcc-4dc3-8bb5-e1e1c931ec96@cogapp.com>
Message-ID: <9cdd28a034b7a7daff5db4e306abdc97@livecode.com>

On 2024-08-16 08:32, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode wrote:
> I have a tool (a LiveCode standalone) running on Windows, which every 
> night drops and recreates a database on a remote MySQL server, (about 
> 350MB, 50 tables). Running for many years.
> 
> About a year ago, we started to see a problem where sometimes the 
> nightly build would fail, part-way through the process. The routine 
> involves creating and populating tables, then creating indexes. 
> Depending when the problem hits, the initial error is either
> 
> 	Connection was killed
> or
> 	Lost connection to MySQL server during query
> 
> All subsequent calls to revdb_execute get the error
> 
> 	MySQL server has gone away
> 
> I tried splitting the build into sections, so that the code opens the 
> connection to a database builds some of the tables, then closes the 
> connection, and opens a new connection to add more tables. There was no 
> evidence that this made the issue occur less frequently; and once it 
> hit, subsequent attempts to open a connection would get the error
> 
> 	Can't connect to MySQL server on '<address>' (0)
> 
> 
> When this was happening maybe a couple of times per month (on average) 
> it didn't matter too much (the system is designed to be resilient, if 
> the data wasn't refreshed one day, it would be the next). I thought it 
> might be network glitches.
> 
> Recently IT tightened security on the machine where the tool runs; and 
> since then we get this problem nine times of out ten. They say the only 
> change made was to remove the admin privileges of the user account, and 
> have now reversed that change; however, this problem has remained 
> since. Another problem that arrived at the same time, reported here as 
> "a windows weirdness", seems (per Paul Dupuis and Mark Waddingham) to 
> be related to UNC paths, and possibly to security policies.
> 
> Does anyone have a suggestion for how conditions could affect this? Is 
> there any way to get more detailed information out of the rev database 
> driver about what's happening?

The dbmysql is just a thin wrapper around the mysqlclient library which 
is basically just implementing a protocol over a socket.

The fact that you get 'Can't connect to MySQL on '<address>'' after it 
happens sounds very much like there's some sort of blocking going on at 
the system level. (A bit like most servers have 'portsentry' or similar 
on it which blocks requests which look dodgy) - given the 'tigtening of 
security' this is quite possible...

I think there are some low-level network tools on windows you could use 
to look at what's happening with sockets/ports (e.g. 
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/downloads/tcpview).

I was going to suggest tweaking the timeouts/auto-reconnect parameters 
on your revOpenDatabase call - but I'm not sure its a timeout due to the 
'Can't connect' error happening subsequently.

Warmest Regards

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things


From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com  Fri Aug 16 05:19:42 2024
From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2024 11:19:42 +0200
Subject: LC Create Cloud advanced developer questions
Message-ID: <931E4E58-4809-4FA2-BD08-D42006732638@gmail.com>

I have some questions to LC HQ on aspects of LC Create Cloud that I believe have not yet been discussed at all (unless I’ve missed something).

1) If several developers want to cooperate, is it then possible for multiple users to log in to the same project in LC Create Cloud? And if not possible now from the start, is it something that’s on the road map? 

2) Even if I’m a lone developer, I may want to make use of the work of others, like we've done so extensively in LC Classic. How can plugin stacks and helper tools made by others be implemented or accessed in my LC Create Cloud project? If I can’t have more than one stack open at the same time, it seems difficult to use such things.

Related to that, can I have my own "script repository” where I store script-only stacks or something, which all my projects can make calls to? Could I even share that repository so other developers can make calls to it? 

Wouldn’t it be very interesting if many general utility scripts could be made available in a similar way to how e.g. Python works, where you put ”import [library]” at the top of a script, and all the modules/handlers can then be accessed by the script?

All this can of course be done already in the sense that you can fetch any LC stack that’s been made available on a server and ”start using” it. But I think LC Create Cloud has the potential to offer such a feature in a more secure an accessible way - to everyone! Is this something you have considered?

3) Regardless of whether "multiple users per account" functionality will be there or not - will LC support staff be able to more easily provide support in LC Create Cloud by accessing projects (at the user’s request) and trouble-shoot or obtain bug documentation? I imagine it should facilitate things in that respect.

/Andreas

From heather at livecode.com  Fri Aug 16 05:56:54 2024
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2024 10:56:54 +0100
Subject: LC Create Cloud advanced developer questions
In-Reply-To: <931E4E58-4809-4FA2-BD08-D42006732638@gmail.com>
References: <931E4E58-4809-4FA2-BD08-D42006732638@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <06B76FCE-C77D-4412-85EF-7F324CCD5C1B@livecode.com>

Andreas,

These are great questions. I think really the best place to get answers is going to be the new LiveCode Create forum, here: 

https://discourse.livecode.com

Please do go here and ask them, and hopefully we can get a good discussion going!

Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 16 Aug 2024, at 10:19, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I have some questions to LC HQ on aspects of LC Create Cloud that I believe have not yet been discussed at all (unless I’ve missed something).
> 
> 1) If several developers want to cooperate, is it then possible for multiple users to log in to the same project in LC Create Cloud? And if not possible now from the start, is it something that’s on the road map? 
> 
> 2) Even if I’m a lone developer, I may want to make use of the work of others, like we've done so extensively in LC Classic. How can plugin stacks and helper tools made by others be implemented or accessed in my LC Create Cloud project? If I can’t have more than one stack open at the same time, it seems difficult to use such things.
> 
> Related to that, can I have my own "script repository” where I store script-only stacks or something, which all my projects can make calls to? Could I even share that repository so other developers can make calls to it? 
> 
> Wouldn’t it be very interesting if many general utility scripts could be made available in a similar way to how e.g. Python works, where you put ”import [library]” at the top of a script, and all the modules/handlers can then be accessed by the script?
> 
> All this can of course be done already in the sense that you can fetch any LC stack that’s been made available on a server and ”start using” it. But I think LC Create Cloud has the potential to offer such a feature in a more secure an accessible way - to everyone! Is this something you have considered?
> 
> 3) Regardless of whether "multiple users per account" functionality will be there or not - will LC support staff be able to more easily provide support in LC Create Cloud by accessing projects (at the user’s request) and trouble-shoot or obtain bug documentation? I imagine it should facilitate things in that respect.
> 
> /Andreas
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Fri Aug 16 06:02:57 2024
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2024 11:02:57 +0100
Subject: Polygrid or polylist as datagrid form replacement?
In-Reply-To: <ME3PR01MB80823F09254D42CDF5123A7FB7812@ME3PR01MB8082.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
References: <ME3PR01MB80823F09254D42CDF5123A7FB7812@ME3PR01MB8082.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <D76E1FF9-49ED-4FFF-9C55-C00A52B941C0@gmail.com>

Hi Terry, I can’t answer your question but I am curious if you have any code you use to dynamically resize the row height in a datagrid. I am very interested in doing this.

Thanks
Mark

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 16, 2024, at 7:35 AM, Terry Judd via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I’ve been using datagrid form objects for a number of years and am investigating the viability of replacing them with polygrids or polylist widgets but on first look it seems that both have fixed/uniform row heights, whereas datagrid form rows can dynamically resize their height according to their content - ie individual rows can have different heights.
> 
> Is that right, or am I missing something?
> 
> Terry
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From kevin at livecode.com  Fri Aug 16 07:23:13 2024
From: kevin at livecode.com (Kevin Miller)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2024 12:23:13 +0100
Subject: LC Create Cloud advanced developer questions
In-Reply-To: <931E4E58-4809-4FA2-BD08-D42006732638@gmail.com>
References: <931E4E58-4809-4FA2-BD08-D42006732638@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5746ED6C-3959-4161-8DFE-11D602A9493A@livecode.com>

Thanks for this. We had a quick chat internally and actually we're happy for Create questions to be posted either here or on the forum. However please post bug reports only on the forums as that is where the developers hang out.

1. At present you can "almost" do this by sharing log in details. Doing this better with multiple log-ins per account has been very much part of the road map from the start. We're really excited about this aspect of things actually, we can see a whole class of apps where people choose to distribute them inside the IDE instead of deploying. As we start to implement this properly we may begin by just being as granular as locking one layout at a time. As things evolve we're looking at developing this to the point where you can do better real time sharing, versioning, code reviews etc.

2. We don't yet have a plugins system in Cloud, however it will be coming soon. There is a real opportunity to make it super easy to share and import components. A marketplace is one way to do this. Allowing a searchable repository of shared script steps and templates (within those IDE features) is another. We're also considering things like whether or not we want to allow attribution (small company logo and a link) if you share a script step. So if you're a consulting service you would get your website in front of people while simultaneously looking useful & knowledgeable to prospects, right from within the IDE.

3. This is essentially similar to the multi-user question. If you grant access to a support account to come in we would be able to do that, obviously if you don't do so then we couldn't.

Kind regards, 

Kevin 

Kevin Miller ~ kevin at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ 
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things 




On 16/08/2024, 10:19, "use-livecode on behalf of Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode" <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> on behalf of use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:


I have some questions to LC HQ on aspects of LC Create Cloud that I believe have not yet been discussed at all (unless I’ve missed something).


1) If several developers want to cooperate, is it then possible for multiple users to log in to the same project in LC Create Cloud? And if not possible now from the start, is it something that’s on the road map? 


2) Even if I’m a lone developer, I may want to make use of the work of others, like we've done so extensively in LC Classic. How can plugin stacks and helper tools made by others be implemented or accessed in my LC Create Cloud project? If I can’t have more than one stack open at the same time, it seems difficult to use such things.


Related to that, can I have my own "script repository” where I store script-only stacks or something, which all my projects can make calls to? Could I even share that repository so other developers can make calls to it? 


Wouldn’t it be very interesting if many general utility scripts could be made available in a similar way to how e.g. Python works, where you put ”import [library]” at the top of a script, and all the modules/handlers can then be accessed by the script?


All this can of course be done already in the sense that you can fetch any LC stack that’s been made available on a server and ”start using” it. But I think LC Create Cloud has the potential to offer such a feature in a more secure an accessible way - to everyone! Is this something you have considered?


3) Regardless of whether "multiple users per account" functionality will be there or not - will LC support staff be able to more easily provide support in LC Create Cloud by accessing projects (at the user’s request) and trouble-shoot or obtain bug documentation? I imagine it should facilitate things in that respect.


/Andreas
_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode <http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode>






From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Aug 16 11:17:06 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2024 15:17:06 +0000
Subject: Issues with (64bit?) Windows MySQL driver
In-Reply-To: <9cdd28a034b7a7daff5db4e306abdc97@livecode.com>
References: <13f72f4a-7dcc-4dc3-8bb5-e1e1c931ec96@cogapp.com>
 <9cdd28a034b7a7daff5db4e306abdc97@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <12E3765E-7AF3-4415-ACFD-5AE8E253CDF9@iotecdigital.com>

I had an issue with my mySQL server some time ago that revolved around making multiple connections in a short period of time. I would hit the connection limit of the SQL server and it would stop accepting connections. My issue was that I didn’t realize at the time that I needed to disconnect after every session, because the SQL server will keep a connection alive for a period of time specified in the server settings. If you are already connected and you create a new connection it will create a new thread.

If you have MySQLWorkbench (or some other server manager) you should be able to see the current connections. The MySQLWorkbench will have it’s own connections but if you see a lot of other connections that you can’t account for, then you need to ensure that you are disconnecting after every session.

Bob S


On Aug 16, 2024, at 1:14 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

On 2024-08-16 08:32, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode wrote:
I have a tool (a LiveCode standalone) running on Windows, which every night drops and recreates a database on a remote MySQL server, (about 350MB, 50 tables). Running for many years.
About a year ago, we started to see a problem where sometimes the nightly build would fail, part-way through the process. The routine involves creating and populating tables, then creating indexes. Depending when the problem hits, the initial error is either
Connection was killed
or
Lost connection to MySQL server during query
All subsequent calls to revdb_execute get the error
MySQL server has gone away
I tried splitting the build into sections, so that the code opens the connection to a database builds some of the tables, then closes the connection, and opens a new connection to add more tables. There was no evidence that this made the issue occur less frequently; and once it hit, subsequent attempts to open a connection would get the error
Can't connect to MySQL server on '<address>' (0)
When this was happening maybe a couple of times per month (on average) it didn't matter too much (the system is designed to be resilient, if the data wasn't refreshed one day, it would be the next). I thought it might be network glitches.
Recently IT tightened security on the machine where the tool runs; and since then we get this problem nine times of out ten. They say the only change made was to remove the admin privileges of the user account, and have now reversed that change; however, this problem has remained since. Another problem that arrived at the same time, reported here as "a windows weirdness", seems (per Paul Dupuis and Mark Waddingham) to be related to UNC paths, and possibly to security policies.
Does anyone have a suggestion for how conditions could affect this? Is there any way to get more detailed information out of the rev database driver about what's happening?

The dbmysql is just a thin wrapper around the mysqlclient library which is basically just implementing a protocol over a socket.

The fact that you get 'Can't connect to MySQL on '<address>'' after it happens sounds very much like there's some sort of blocking going on at the system level. (A bit like most servers have 'portsentry' or similar on it which blocks requests which look dodgy) - given the 'tigtening of security' this is quite possible...

I think there are some low-level network tools on windows you could use to look at what's happening with sockets/ports (e.g. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/downloads/tcpview).

I was going to suggest tweaking the timeouts/auto-reconnect parameters on your revOpenDatabase call - but I'm not sure its a timeout due to the 'Can't connect' error happening subsequently.

Warmest Regards

Mark.

--
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com<mailto:mark at livecode.com> ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Aug 16 11:20:12 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2024 15:20:12 +0000
Subject: Polygrid or polylist as datagrid form replacement?
In-Reply-To: <ME3PR01MB80823F09254D42CDF5123A7FB7812@ME3PR01MB8082.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
References: <ME3PR01MB80823F09254D42CDF5123A7FB7812@ME3PR01MB8082.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <E4BB477D-276D-4276-8ED9-83C5AA21CF16@iotecdigital.com>

There are a great many things you can do with a datagrid that you cannot do with a polygrid. From what I have been able to gather, the main advantage to using a polygrid is that they perform better than a datagrid. But their list of properties that you can get and set are what I would call minimal compared to a datagrid. Also, I do not think that polygrids can be used like a form style datagrid. 

Bob S


> On Aug 15, 2024, at 11:34 PM, Terry Judd via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I’ve been using datagrid form objects for a number of years and am investigating the viability of replacing them with polygrids or polylist widgets but on first look it seems that both have fixed/uniform row heights, whereas datagrid form rows can dynamically resize their height according to their content - ie individual rows can have different heights.
> 
> Is that right, or am I missing something?
> 
> Terry
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Aug 16 11:21:42 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2024 15:21:42 +0000
Subject: Polygrid or polylist as datagrid form replacement?
In-Reply-To: <D76E1FF9-49ED-4FFF-9C55-C00A52B941C0@gmail.com>
References: <ME3PR01MB80823F09254D42CDF5123A7FB7812@ME3PR01MB8082.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
 <D76E1FF9-49ED-4FFF-9C55-C00A52B941C0@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A3CF9CD6-817E-440E-BBA2-636AD3791E9A@iotecdigital.com>

I believe he is talking about form style datagrids. Form style has row templates that can be coded dynamically. To my knowledge, table style only have column templates. 

Bob S


> On Aug 16, 2024, at 3:02 AM, Mark Smith via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Terry, I can’t answer your question but I am curious if you have any code you use to dynamically resize the row height in a datagrid. I am very interested in doing this.
> 
> Thanks
> Mark
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Aug 16, 2024, at 7:35 AM, Terry Judd via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I’ve been using datagrid form objects for a number of years and am investigating the viability of replacing them with polygrids or polylist widgets but on first look it seems that both have fixed/uniform row heights, whereas datagrid form rows can dynamically resize their height according to their content - ie individual rows can have different heights.
>> 
>> Is that right, or am I missing something?
>> 
>> Terry
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com  Fri Aug 16 11:50:02 2024
From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2024 17:50:02 +0200
Subject: Polygrid or polylist as datagrid form replacement?
In-Reply-To: <D76E1FF9-49ED-4FFF-9C55-C00A52B941C0@gmail.com>
References: <ME3PR01MB80823F09254D42CDF5123A7FB7812@ME3PR01MB8082.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
 <D76E1FF9-49ED-4FFF-9C55-C00A52B941C0@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0149E401-1C06-43E5-BE42-75D2A6FF6DE5@gmail.com>

So, Terry is correct: Polygrid and Polylist currently have fixed/uniform row heights. I hope that might be enhanced one day. So if variable row height is a requirement, you’ll have to stick with the Datagrid for now.

This was also discussed in the Forum last year, including hints on how to achieve variable row heights in a Datagrid: 
https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=37819&p=222950&hilit=datagrid#p222950

/Andreas

> 16 aug. 2024 kl. 12:02 skrev Mark Smith via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi Terry, I can’t answer your question but I am curious if you have any code you use to dynamically resize the row height in a datagrid. I am very interested in doing this.
> 
> Thanks
> Mark
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Aug 16, 2024, at 7:35 AM, Terry Judd via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I’ve been using datagrid form objects for a number of years and am investigating the viability of replacing them with polygrids or polylist widgets but on first look it seems that both have fixed/uniform row heights, whereas datagrid form rows can dynamically resize their height according to their content - ie individual rows can have different heights.
>> 
>> Is that right, or am I missing something?
>> 
>> Terry
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au  Fri Aug 16 16:44:36 2024
From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2024 20:44:36 +0000
Subject: Polygrid or polylist as datagrid form replacement?
In-Reply-To: <0149E401-1C06-43E5-BE42-75D2A6FF6DE5@gmail.com>
References: <ME3PR01MB80823F09254D42CDF5123A7FB7812@ME3PR01MB8082.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
 <D76E1FF9-49ED-4FFF-9C55-C00A52B941C0@gmail.com>
 <0149E401-1C06-43E5-BE42-75D2A6FF6DE5@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ME3PR01MB808208C8F471FCE9469049D8B7812@ME3PR01MB8082.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>

Thanks Andreas – that lesson explains how it works for Mark much more clearly than I could in the space of an email.

Form datagrids are great but they can be a bit slow to render when they contain a lot of stuff. I use them to create fairly complex asssessment feedback reports (PDFs) to students and I was looking for possible ways to speed up the generation process. I guess I’ll just stick with what works.

Regards – Terry

So, Terry is correct: Polygrid and Polylist currently have fixed/uniform row heights. I hope that might be enhanced one day. So if variable row height is a requirement, you’ll have to stick with the Datagrid for now.

This was also discussed in the Forum last year, including hints on how to achieve variable row heights in a Datagrid:
https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=37819&p=222950&hilit=datagrid#p222950

/Andreas

> 16 aug. 2024 kl. 12:02 skrev Mark Smith via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>
> Hi Terry, I can’t answer your question but I am curious if you have any code you use to dynamically resize the row height in a datagrid. I am very interested in doing this.
>
> Thanks
> Mark
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Aug 16, 2024, at 7:35 AM, Terry Judd via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> I’ve been using datagrid form objects for a number of years and am investigating the viability of replacing them with polygrids or polylist widgets but on first look it seems that both have fixed/uniform row heights, whereas datagrid form rows can dynamically resize their height according to their content - ie individual rows can have different heights.
>>
>> Is that right, or am I missing something?
>>
>> Terry
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com  Sat Aug 17 10:43:01 2024
From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal)
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2024 16:43:01 +0200
Subject: LC Create Cloud advanced developer questions
In-Reply-To: <5746ED6C-3959-4161-8DFE-11D602A9493A@livecode.com>
References: <931E4E58-4809-4FA2-BD08-D42006732638@gmail.com>
 <5746ED6C-3959-4161-8DFE-11D602A9493A@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <1588CFF1-6529-4F94-AAEF-F7815567D029@gmail.com>

Thanks Kevin, that all sounds very good and promising. I support the attribution idea.

(I posted the questions in the LCC forum as well, as per Heather's suggestion, and Steven added your reply there. So I’m happy to continue any discussion over there.)

/Andreas 

> 16 aug. 2024 kl. 13:23 skrev Kevin Miller via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Thanks for this. We had a quick chat internally and actually we're happy for Create questions to be posted either here or on the forum. However please post bug reports only on the forums as that is where the developers hang out.
> 
> 1. At present you can "almost" do this by sharing log in details. Doing this better with multiple log-ins per account has been very much part of the road map from the start. We're really excited about this aspect of things actually, we can see a whole class of apps where people choose to distribute them inside the IDE instead of deploying. As we start to implement this properly we may begin by just being as granular as locking one layout at a time. As things evolve we're looking at developing this to the point where you can do better real time sharing, versioning, code reviews etc.
> 
> 2. We don't yet have a plugins system in Cloud, however it will be coming soon. There is a real opportunity to make it super easy to share and import components. A marketplace is one way to do this. Allowing a searchable repository of shared script steps and templates (within those IDE features) is another. We're also considering things like whether or not we want to allow attribution (small company logo and a link) if you share a script step. So if you're a consulting service you would get your website in front of people while simultaneously looking useful & knowledgeable to prospects, right from within the IDE.
> 
> 3. This is essentially similar to the multi-user question. If you grant access to a support account to come in we would be able to do that, obviously if you don't do so then we couldn't.
> 
> Kind regards, 
> 
> Kevin 
> 
> Kevin Miller ~ kevin at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ 
> LiveCode: Build Amazing Things 
> 
> 
> 
> On 16/08/2024, 10:19, "use-livecode on behalf of Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode" <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> on behalf of use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:
> 
> 
> I have some questions to LC HQ on aspects of LC Create Cloud that I believe have not yet been discussed at all (unless I’ve missed something).
> 
> 
> 1) If several developers want to cooperate, is it then possible for multiple users to log in to the same project in LC Create Cloud? And if not possible now from the start, is it something that’s on the road map? 
> 
> 
> 2) Even if I’m a lone developer, I may want to make use of the work of others, like we've done so extensively in LC Classic. How can plugin stacks and helper tools made by others be implemented or accessed in my LC Create Cloud project? If I can’t have more than one stack open at the same time, it seems difficult to use such things.
> 
> 
> Related to that, can I have my own "script repository” where I store script-only stacks or something, which all my projects can make calls to? Could I even share that repository so other developers can make calls to it? 
> 
> 
> Wouldn’t it be very interesting if many general utility scripts could be made available in a similar way to how e.g. Python works, where you put ”import [library]” at the top of a script, and all the modules/handlers can then be accessed by the script?
> 
> 
> All this can of course be done already in the sense that you can fetch any LC stack that’s been made available on a server and ”start using” it. But I think LC Create Cloud has the potential to offer such a feature in a more secure an accessible way - to everyone! Is this something you have considered?
> 
> 
> 3) Regardless of whether "multiple users per account" functionality will be there or not - will LC support staff be able to more easily provide support in LC Create Cloud by accessing projects (at the user’s request) and trouble-shoot or obtain bug documentation? I imagine it should facilitate things in that respect.
> 
> 
> /Andreas


From cszasz at mac.com  Sat Aug 17 12:24:41 2024
From: cszasz at mac.com (Charles Szasz)
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2024 10:24:41 -0600
Subject: Extracting test scores from a PDF
Message-ID: <78862B56-CBD8-4BD6-9164-C9209B7EF661@mac.com>

I came a web app that can extract test scores from a PDF and insert them into an app.  Can LC do the same thing?  


Sent from my iPad

From paul at researchware.com  Sat Aug 17 14:16:40 2024
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2024 14:16:40 -0400
Subject: Extracting test scores from a PDF
In-Reply-To: <78862B56-CBD8-4BD6-9164-C9209B7EF661@mac.com>
References: <78862B56-CBD8-4BD6-9164-C9209B7EF661@mac.com>
Message-ID: <4580676d-125a-4eb8-be91-67fdd79db6c6@researchware.com>

On 8/17/2024 12:24 PM, Charles Szasz via use-livecode wrote:
> I came a web app that can extract test scores from a PDF and insert them into an app.  Can LC do the same thing?
>

I assume you mean can a programmer write an app in Livecode to extract 
test scores from a PDF and do something with them.

If the PDF has the test scores as text in the PDF (vs just a scanned 
image), then, yes, you can make a Livecode app that uses the PDF widget 
to open the PDF and retrieve the text from it and then parse that text 
for the test scores. If there is a routine pattern to the how the test 
scores appear, it will be easier to parse the text.



From curry at pair.com  Sat Aug 17 16:11:55 2024
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2024 16:11:55 -0400
Subject: A friendly reminder to read the new EULA - common privacy/security
 expectations
Message-ID: <47429f74-733a-45f1-a369-9cb51f12a3af@pair.com>

Sorry I haven't posted sooner - enjoyed the comments.
(Thanks to 2 friends who sent congrats that I'm typing more again!)

As expected, it's good to see LC adding features that have become
common modern development expectations in today's world.

Meanwhile, hopefully the EULA will also be modernized, to fit
common privacy/security expectations in today's world!

So, a friendly reminder - read the new EULA beforehand.
(Any purchase of LC Create applies these terms to LC Classic too.)

Not a problem for some, depending on your own situation; I'm glad!

But 3rd party consultants know common mainstream expectations -
increasingly conscious about privacy, higher security, etc.
I've heard similar concerns from other LC consultants.

Folks are wary of things like tracking, data sharing, audits!
Many new clients and referrals won't trust a EULA full of these.
Especially in IT and government, but among consumer/biz too.

Hopefully we'll see samples for the opt-outs, added options -
and improved EULA text for mainstream LC adoption.
(A simple process that does not offset productivity.)

Anyway, a great weekend to all! Keep safe and civil.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development -
"RESURRECT old/broken LC projects! The future awaits..."
https://livecodeconsulting.com/


From curry at pair.com  Sat Aug 17 17:10:27 2024
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2024 17:10:27 -0400
Subject: Livecode Future - and Microsoft past
In-Reply-To: <E7BAECD4-7C09-4B91-8E9A-B5937D23F780@gmail.com>
References: <E7BAECD4-7C09-4B91-8E9A-B5937D23F780@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3e8dc864-046b-4cfe-9b0d-d212727137f8@pair.com>

doc hawk:

 > Somewhere in my files I have a (typed!) letter from Microsoft
 > from 1989 or 1990 responding to my suggestion as a software
 > developer suggesting that BASIC be attached to MS Word.

 > The gist was that it was an intriguing idea,
 > but they had no plans for such a thing.

I had to follow up on this; just couldn't do it sooner -

That's a wow moment, pretty epic and fun! Thanks for sharing that.
The flurry BEHIND that same typewriter would be a sight to behold. :)

(Looks like WordBasic and macro language history before VBA
varied a lot between DOS, Windows and Mac versions.)

I enjoyed all the comments and seeing many a great person pop up -
Sorry I couldn't respond to more, but many good ones lately.

I hope you are ALL doing well!

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
"PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
https://livecodeconsulting.com/



From heather at livecode.com  Wed Aug 21 11:36:57 2024
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2024 16:36:57 +0100
Subject: LiveCode Create 1.0 dp-2 released with engine level JSON
Message-ID: <7A2EFC3A-2103-454E-AD64-372E089CA1B4@livecode.com>

Hi Folks,

We're pleased to announce a new release of LiveCode Create, dp-2. In this release the major feature is new, improved, engine level JSON, available to Create Cloud, Create Native and the embedded Create Classic option within Create Native. To learn more about the JSON improvements, go here:

https://future.livecode.com/dp2-json/

On the engine side, this release brings:

    • saving a standalone for web now works when using a Universal license in Create's Classic mode
    • modifying strings in array elements is now substantially faster
    • there is a new is a sequence operator which returns true for arrays which have keys 1, ..., N
    • there is a new is a numeric sequence operator which returns true for arrays which have keys -M, ..., N
    • the combine command now sorts arrays which return true for is a numeric sequence in (ascending) numeric order
    • there are a new family of as <type> operators which convert a value to a given type, and throw an error if they cannot be, e.g. tVar as a number converts 100
    • there are new fast and accurate json encoding and decoding functions jsonEncode and jsonDecode
    • to support roundtripping values through json using the new functions, it is now possible to mark an array as preferring to be a dictionary (maps to JSON object) or preferring to be a sequence (maps to JSON array) using as a dictionary or as a sequence operators
    • the existing JSON Library functions JsonImport and JsonExport have been reimplemented using the builtin engine support and as such are substantially faster

On the Create IDE side, this is just a short list of some of the bugs we have addressed:

    • Logging out on web no longer causes a hang
    • Empty layouts no longer generated after exiting without saving
    • Non user placed objects no longer appear in the project browser
    • The color picker editor no longer accepts incorrectly formatted colors
    • Icons on the left bar should now accurately reflect the opened state of the related palette
    • Pressing enter or return key in a dialog field no longer causes a hang

Many more issues have been sorted, and we're eagerly looking forward to to DP-3 which will squish many more.

For purchasers, this release is now available from your LiveCode account, under the "LiveCode Create" tab. It has been pushed to the Cloud so the web version is already running dp-2. Not got it yet? Go here:

https://future.livecode.com/buy

Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com





From cszasz at mac.com  Wed Aug 21 17:37:54 2024
From: cszasz at mac.com (Charles Szasz)
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2024 15:37:54 -0600
Subject: use-livecode Digest, Vol 251, Issue 19
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1724256002.383443.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.1.1724256002.383443.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <87DAC867-176E-4A4F-A3B4-3245DC176572@mac.com>

Heather,

Please send a new password so I can access LC Create.  I know you are really busy. So, when you have time please me a new password.  

Also, I looked forward to receiving estimates of LC program work. 

Thanks!

Sent from my iPad

> On Aug 21, 2024, at 10:01 AM, use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:
> 
> Send use-livecode mailing list submissions to
>    use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>    http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>    use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>    use-livecode-owner at lists.runrev.com
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of use-livecode digest..."
> 
> 
> you can find the archives for this list at:
> 
> http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/
> 
> and search them using this link:
> 
> https://www.mail-archive.com/use-livecode at lists.runrev.com/
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. LiveCode Create 1.0 dp-2 released with engine level JSON
>      (Heather Laine)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2024 16:36:57 +0100
> From: Heather Laine <heather at livecode.com>
> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: LiveCode Create 1.0 dp-2 released with engine level JSON
> Message-ID: <7A2EFC3A-2103-454E-AD64-372E089CA1B4 at livecode.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=utf-8
> 
> Hi Folks,
> 
> We're pleased to announce a new release of LiveCode Create, dp-2. In this release the major feature is new, improved, engine level JSON, available to Create Cloud, Create Native and the embedded Create Classic option within Create Native. To learn more about the JSON improvements, go here:
> 
> https://future.livecode.com/dp2-json/
> 
> On the engine side, this release brings:
> 
>    ? saving a standalone for web now works when using a Universal license in Create's Classic mode
>    ? modifying strings in array elements is now substantially faster
>    ? there is a new is a sequence operator which returns true for arrays which have keys 1, ..., N
>    ? there is a new is a numeric sequence operator which returns true for arrays which have keys -M, ..., N
>    ? the combine command now sorts arrays which return true for is a numeric sequence in (ascending) numeric order
>    ? there are a new family of as <type> operators which convert a value to a given type, and throw an error if they cannot be, e.g. tVar as a number converts 100
>    ? there are new fast and accurate json encoding and decoding functions jsonEncode and jsonDecode
>    ? to support roundtripping values through json using the new functions, it is now possible to mark an array as preferring to be a dictionary (maps to JSON object) or preferring to be a sequence (maps to JSON array) using as a dictionary or as a sequence operators
>    ? the existing JSON Library functions JsonImport and JsonExport have been reimplemented using the builtin engine support and as such are substantially faster
> 
> On the Create IDE side, this is just a short list of some of the bugs we have addressed:
> 
>    ? Logging out on web no longer causes a hang
>    ? Empty layouts no longer generated after exiting without saving
>    ? Non user placed objects no longer appear in the project browser
>    ? The color picker editor no longer accepts incorrectly formatted colors
>    ? Icons on the left bar should now accurately reflect the opened state of the related palette
>    ? Pressing enter or return key in a dialog field no longer causes a hang
> 
> Many more issues have been sorted, and we're eagerly looking forward to to DP-3 which will squish many more.
> 
> For purchasers, this release is now available from your LiveCode account, under the "LiveCode Create" tab. It has been pushed to the Cloud so the web version is already running dp-2. Not got it yet? Go here:
> 
> https://future.livecode.com/buy
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Subject: Digest Footer
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> End of use-livecode Digest, Vol 251, Issue 19
> *********************************************


From curry at pair.com  Thu Aug 22 01:13:16 2024
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2024 01:13:16 -0400
Subject: Productivity is the key - not paperwork.
Message-ID: <ad044a42-4bd4-4b3f-9a95-8c53ba6516e1@pair.com>

I'm not energetic enough to be comfortable yet with Create's EULA.

Time and energy are precious for everyone! Thus, efficiency -
especially those with handicaps, chronic fatigue, or even seniority. :)

For me, saving energy is crucial. So I've specialized; 100% LC.
When someone asks me about any project, my answer has been: LiveCode!

Keep it simple. My Dad's air force motto. I like it that way.

LC Create would be a natural next step in energy-saving.
(And I'm nostalgic for code actions; used VPL often, 20 years ago!)

This would be a joyful moment for me -

But Create's productivity is OFFSET by unusual reporting demands,
along with privacy/security concerns. All time-consuming to resolve:

- 'if I didn't have that LiveCode component how much income would I 
lose? That's the percentage you need to pay us on. We will ask to see 
how you worked out this percentage.'

- 'can I turn off tracking for my apps? - Yes, you can do this, on an 
app by app basis, after discussing and agreeing a custom license 
agreement with us. Note that this may mean we ask you for detailed 
tracking on your app sales, since we won't be able to track it ourselves.'

And so on - looks bureaucratic, complex, high-energy, work-intensive.
That is ongoing (e)paperwork, a drain to offset productivity.

For me, that much added old-style paperwork is just not feasible,
along with the privacy/security concerns in some areas -

It means being forced to consider 'LC or not' per project.
Some very ideal, some not at all - mostly due to fine print.

This feels like a step backward; I prefer 100% LC.
But today many low-code platforms, with much less paperwork!

I hope the new Create EULA will soon be modernized,
to fit today's world, and do justice to the new features.

Thought it might be worth another try, planting an idea-seed. :)

Back to work - Thank you.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development -
"RESURRECT old/broken LC projects! The future awaits..."
https://livecodeconsulting.com/


From klaus at major-k.de  Fri Aug 23 05:55:13 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2024 11:55:13 +0200
Subject: Error creating Android Standalone
Message-ID: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>

Hi friends,

I get an error when creating an Android runtime:
----------------------------------------------
There was an error while saving the standalone application could not encode class bundle - error:
Error: AJNI error has occurred, please check your installation and try again Exception in thread "main" java.lang. UnsupportedClassVersionError:
com/android/tools/r8/D8 has been compiled by a more recent version of the Java Runtime (class file version 55.0), this version of the Java Runtime only recognizes class file versions up to 52.0
at java.lang.ClassLoader.defineClass 1(Native Method)
at java.lang.ClassLoader.defineClass(ClassLoader.java:756)
at java.security.SecureClassLoader.defineClass(SecureClassLoader.java:142)
at java.net.URLClassLoader.defineClass(URLClassLoader.java:473)
at java.net.URLClassLoader.access$100(URLClassLoader.java:74)
at java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run(URLClassLoader.java:369)
at java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run(URLClassLoader.java:363)
at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method) at java.net.URLClassLoader.findClass(URLClassLoader.java:362)
at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:418)
at sun.misc.LauncherSAppClassLoader.loadClass(Launcher.java:355)
at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:351)
at sun.launcher.LauncherHelper.checkAndLoadMain(LauncherHelper.java:601)
-------------------------------------------------

MacMini M2, macOS 14.6.1
LC 10 rc1
Android Studio Iguana | 2023.2.1 Patch 1
Build #AI-232.10300.40.2321.11567975, built on March 13, 2024
Runtime version: 17.0.9+0-17.0.9b1087.7-11185874 aarch64
VM: OpenJDK 64-Bit Server VM by JetBrains s.r.o.
macOS 14.6.1
GC: G1 Young Generation, G1 Old Generation
Memory: 2048M
Cores: 8
Metal Rendering is ON
Registry:
    ide.experimental.ui=true
-------------------------------------------------

What can I do? Any hints very welcome!


Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From livfoss at mac.com  Fri Aug 23 07:10:39 2024
From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2024 12:10:39 +0100
Subject: Bowing Out
Message-ID: <F4D01149-7B73-471E-948C-9F6DBE19720B@mac.com>

Just a quick note to say that after many years of using LiveCode (including its predecessors) and doing some modest development - some of which was successfully sold to real users - I’ve decided that for me time’s up. This is because of seniority (as someone recently put it - I’m old!) and the feeling that at my time of life I can’t productively invest time or money in learning about Create and the whole direction of the LC technology. I’ve had fun over the years, and have benefitted hugely from the generosity and expertise of those on this list and of course from the direct support of the whole Kevin circus. I’ll miss it all.

For what it's worth, I have seen the Create demo and tried to understand the underlying model of app that is being aimed at. If I were still trying to contribute, I would be asking about how Create can help with apps that depend on user interaction with animations, and apps that are driven by external triggers like changing GPS coordinates, and most of all, about how far Create will assist with deployment, particularly on iOS - an issue that can dwarf the actual development effort of an app in terms of time and resources. If Create can take the user all the way from internal beta test to publication, that would be an achievement worth celebrating.

Anyway, it’s a great product that deserves success - so good luck to all involved.

I’ll lurk for a little longer, but really its goodbye and thanks for all the fish.

Graham

From jbv at souslelogo.com  Fri Aug 23 07:27:54 2024
From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2024 07:27:54 -0400
Subject: How to check if a group contains a specific control ?
Message-ID: <963358ee2ad8f11dfe3b95f474d3891c@souslelogo.com>

Hi list,

Is there a quick way to check if a group contains a specific control,
something like :
if there is a fld "xyz" in grp "abc" of this cd

I tried many things but it always generates an error.
So far, the only way I can think of is to maintain a custom prop
for each group, featuring a string that is the list of all controls
names of the group.

Thank you in advance.
jbv


From klaus at major-k.de  Fri Aug 23 07:45:56 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2024 13:45:56 +0200
Subject: How to check if a group contains a specific control ?
In-Reply-To: <963358ee2ad8f11dfe3b95f474d3891c@souslelogo.com>
References: <963358ee2ad8f11dfe3b95f474d3891c@souslelogo.com>
Message-ID: <00DD9EFE-2671-4716-AAC3-92EEB4D89709@major-k.de>

Hi jbv,

> Am 23.08.2024 um 13:27 schrieb jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi list,
> 
> Is there a quick way to check if a group contains a specific control,
> something like :
> if there is a fld "xyz" in grp "abc" of this cd
> I tried many things but it always generates an error.
> So far, the only way I can think of is to maintain a custom prop
> for each group, featuring a string that is the list of all controls
> names of the group.

if you don't have any other controls with the same name, 
you could check: 
-> lineoffset("xyz",the childcontrolnames of grp "abc")

> Thank you in advance.
> jbv

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From ilola.antti at gmail.com  Fri Aug 23 07:46:38 2024
From: ilola.antti at gmail.com (Antti Ilola)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2024 14:46:38 +0300
Subject: Bowing Out
In-Reply-To: <F4D01149-7B73-471E-948C-9F6DBE19720B@mac.com>
References: <F4D01149-7B73-471E-948C-9F6DBE19720B@mac.com>
Message-ID: <CAEKyzxNoizffEZ5A7Fb6xk+ya4ZPqn0Z5eqVO3gSvNTQ-+jukg@mail.gmail.com>

+1

pe 23.8.2024 klo 14.12 Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> kirjoitti:

> Just a quick note to say that after many years of using LiveCode
> (including its predecessors) and doing some modest development - some of
> which was successfully sold to real users - I’ve decided that for me time’s
> up. This is because of seniority (as someone recently put it - I’m old!)
> and the feeling that at my time of life I can’t productively invest time or
> money in learning about Create and the whole direction of the LC
> technology. I’ve had fun over the years, and have benefitted hugely from
> the generosity and expertise of those on this list and of course from the
> direct support of the whole Kevin circus. I’ll miss it all.
>
> For what it's worth, I have seen the Create demo and tried to understand
> the underlying model of app that is being aimed at. If I were still trying
> to contribute, I would be asking about how Create can help with apps that
> depend on user interaction with animations, and apps that are driven by
> external triggers like changing GPS coordinates, and most of all, about how
> far Create will assist with deployment, particularly on iOS - an issue that
> can dwarf the actual development effort of an app in terms of time and
> resources. If Create can take the user all the way from internal beta test
> to publication, that would be an achievement worth celebrating.
>
> Anyway, it’s a great product that deserves success - so good luck to all
> involved.
>
> I’ll lurk for a little longer, but really its goodbye and thanks for all
> the fish.
>
> Graham
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From paul at researchware.com  Fri Aug 23 08:04:43 2024
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2024 08:04:43 -0400
Subject: How to check if a group contains a specific control ?
In-Reply-To: <00DD9EFE-2671-4716-AAC3-92EEB4D89709@major-k.de>
References: <963358ee2ad8f11dfe3b95f474d3891c@souslelogo.com>
 <00DD9EFE-2671-4716-AAC3-92EEB4D89709@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <c386b4f7-0f8e-44c9-b2fb-3acae4788f16@researchware.com>

On 8/23/2024 7:45 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi jbv,
>
>> Am 23.08.2024 um 13:27 schrieb jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>
>> Hi list,
>>
>> Is there a quick way to check if a group contains a specific control,
>> something like :
>> if there is a fld "xyz" in grp "abc" of this cd
>> I tried many things but it always generates an error.
>> So far, the only way I can think of is to maintain a custom prop
>> for each group, featuring a string that is the list of all controls
>> names of the group.
> if you don't have any other controls with the same name,
> you could check:
> -> lineoffset("xyz",the childcontrolnames of grp "abc")
>

or, if you prefer:

if "xyz" is among the lines of the childcontrolnames of group "abc" then

NOTE: As mentioned, "xyz" would need to be a unique name for control in 
the group. If you have a field "xyz" and a button "xyz" (or 2 buttons or 
2 or more fields with the same name, etc.) this is not accurate.



From brian at milby7.com  Fri Aug 23 08:48:15 2024
From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2024 08:48:15 -0400
Subject: How to check if a group contains a specific control ?
In-Reply-To: <c386b4f7-0f8e-44c9-b2fb-3acae4788f16@researchware.com>
References: <c386b4f7-0f8e-44c9-b2fb-3acae4788f16@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <6364A226-62B7-44D4-BB60-030BC87A7DE6@milby7.com>

Another alternative.

If the short id of fld "xyz" is among the lines of the childcontrolids of group "abc" then …

This one should work as long as there is only one field with that name on the card (tried from message box).

Brian Milby
brian at milby7.com

> On Aug 23, 2024, at 8:05 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> On 8/23/2024 7:45 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hi jbv,
>> 
>>>> Am 23.08.2024 um 13:27 schrieb jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> Hi list,
>>> 
>>> Is there a quick way to check if a group contains a specific control,
>>> something like :
>>> if there is a fld "xyz" in grp "abc" of this cd
>>> I tried many things but it always generates an error.
>>> So far, the only way I can think of is to maintain a custom prop
>>> for each group, featuring a string that is the list of all controls
>>> names of the group.
>> if you don't have any other controls with the same name,
>> you could check:
>> -> lineoffset("xyz",the childcontrolnames of grp "abc")
>> 
> 
> or, if you prefer:
> 
> if "xyz" is among the lines of the childcontrolnames of group "abc" then
> 
> NOTE: As mentioned, "xyz" would need to be a unique name for control in the group. If you have a field "xyz" and a button "xyz" (or 2 buttons or 2 or more fields with the same name, etc.) this is not accurate.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Aug 23 11:08:28 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2024 15:08:28 +0000
Subject: Bowing Out
In-Reply-To: <F4D01149-7B73-471E-948C-9F6DBE19720B@mac.com>
References: <F4D01149-7B73-471E-948C-9F6DBE19720B@mac.com>
Message-ID: <F9A6AD12-C25A-465F-BA67-D22014E40A11@iotecdigital.com>

+42

> On Aug 23, 2024, at 4:10 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Just a quick note to say that after many years of using LiveCode (including its predecessors) and doing some modest development - some of which was successfully sold to real users - I’ve decided that for me time’s up. This is because of seniority (as someone recently put it - I’m old!) and the feeling that at my time of life I can’t productively invest time or money in learning about Create and the whole direction of the LC technology. I’ve had fun over the years, and have benefitted hugely from the generosity and expertise of those on this list and of course from the direct support of the whole Kevin circus. I’ll miss it all.
> 
> For what it's worth, I have seen the Create demo and tried to understand the underlying model of app that is being aimed at. If I were still trying to contribute, I would be asking about how Create can help with apps that depend on user interaction with animations, and apps that are driven by external triggers like changing GPS coordinates, and most of all, about how far Create will assist with deployment, particularly on iOS - an issue that can dwarf the actual development effort of an app in terms of time and resources. If Create can take the user all the way from internal beta test to publication, that would be an achievement worth celebrating.
> 
> Anyway, it’s a great product that deserves success - so good luck to all involved.
> 
> I’ll lurk for a little longer, but really its goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
> 
> Graham
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From jeff at siphonophore.com  Fri Aug 23 15:37:56 2024
From: jeff at siphonophore.com (Jeff Reynolds)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2024 15:37:56 -0400
Subject: Bowing Out
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1724428801.123729.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.1.1724428801.123729.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <C75EA50A-8309-49CE-8FFE-0C63DF8C5B8F@siphonophore.com>

Graham,

I was going to send a similar post for myself, but yours is so spot on for me as well along with the fish, I’ll just say me too.

7x6

Jeff 

> On Aug 23, 2024, at 12:02 PM, use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:
> 
> Just a quick note to say that after many years of using LiveCode (including its predecessors) and doing some modest development - some of which was successfully sold to real users - I?ve decided that for me time?s up. This is because of seniority (as someone recently put it - I?m old!) and the feeling that at my time of life I can?t productively invest time or money in learning about Create and the whole direction of the LC technology. I?ve had fun over the years, and have benefitted hugely from the generosity and expertise of those on this list and of course from the direct support of the whole Kevin circus. I?ll miss it all.
> 
> For what it's worth, I have seen the Create demo and tried to understand the underlying model of app that is being aimed at. If I were still trying to contribute, I would be asking about how Create can help with apps that depend on user interaction with animations, and apps that are driven by external triggers like changing GPS coordinates, and most of all, about how far Create will assist with deployment, particularly on iOS - an issue that can dwarf the actual development effort of an app in terms of time and resources. If Create can take the user all the way from internal beta test to publication, that would be an achievement worth celebrating.
> 
> Anyway, it?s a great product that deserves success - so good luck to all involved.
> 
> I?ll lurk for a little longer, but really its goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
> 
> Graham



From christerp1 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 23 16:25:55 2024
From: christerp1 at gmail.com (=?utf-8?Q?Christer_Pyyhti=C3=A4?=)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2024 23:25:55 +0300
Subject: Bowing Out
In-Reply-To: <C75EA50A-8309-49CE-8FFE-0C63DF8C5B8F@siphonophore.com>
References: <mailman.1.1724428801.123729.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <C75EA50A-8309-49CE-8FFE-0C63DF8C5B8F@siphonophore.com>
Message-ID: <6844397B-AB67-40EE-8EF4-B4BEA9A55B35@gmail.com>

Thank you for telling of your views.

How’s about sharing the experiences?

Now which were the great inventions you made in creating your apps with LC? What were the biggest obstacles? What creations what you made were getting the best appreciations by your customers? Were there any problems you were no able to overcome in making your app where you wanted it to be?

Were you able to first write specs for the job and find out it was easier / more difficult to code with LC?

I could continue this, but what was the most difficult getting it done with LC?

Just to add here, as in any coding problem, in my mind it sometimes took too many rounds to get there, making it frustrating. Yet, with LC, the coding was so intuitive, I nearly could just write the spec, and get it running. And now there is an amount of ready coded / automatically rewritable blocks with Create - maybe beating your own blocks.

Let me know.


Christer Pyyhtiä
christerp1 at gmail.com



> On 23. Aug 2024, at 22.37, Jeff Reynolds via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Graham,
> 
> I was going to send a similar post for myself, but yours is so spot on for me as well along with the fish, I’ll just say me too.
> 
> 7x6
> 
> Jeff 
> 
>> On Aug 23, 2024, at 12:02 PM, use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:
>> 
>> Just a quick note to say that after many years of using LiveCode (including its predecessors) and doing some modest development - some of which was successfully sold to real users - I?ve decided that for me time?s up. This is because of seniority (as someone recently put it - I?m old!) and the feeling that at my time of life I can?t productively invest time or money in learning about Create and the whole direction of the LC technology. I?ve had fun over the years, and have benefitted hugely from the generosity and expertise of those on this list and of course from the direct support of the whole Kevin circus. I?ll miss it all.
>> 
>> For what it's worth, I have seen the Create demo and tried to understand the underlying model of app that is being aimed at. If I were still trying to contribute, I would be asking about how Create can help with apps that depend on user interaction with animations, and apps that are driven by external triggers like changing GPS coordinates, and most of all, about how far Create will assist with deployment, particularly on iOS - an issue that can dwarf the actual development effort of an app in terms of time and resources. If Create can take the user all the way from internal beta test to publication, that would be an achievement worth celebrating.
>> 
>> Anyway, it?s a great product that deserves success - so good luck to all involved.
>> 
>> I?ll lurk for a little longer, but really its goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
>> 
>> Graham
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From dick.kriesel at mail.com  Sat Aug 24 21:36:25 2024
From: dick.kriesel at mail.com (Dick Kriesel)
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2024 18:36:25 -0700
Subject: How to check if a group contains a specific control ?
In-Reply-To: <6364A226-62B7-44D4-BB60-030BC87A7DE6@milby7.com>
References: <c386b4f7-0f8e-44c9-b2fb-3acae4788f16@researchware.com>
 <6364A226-62B7-44D4-BB60-030BC87A7DE6@milby7.com>
Message-ID: <2D387847-74B5-4D20-AFB2-3C743DF33DCE@mail.com>

yet another alternative:

if the long id of <your control> ends with the long id of <your group> then …

this catches controls whose ownership includes intervening grouping between your control and your group

— Dick

> On Aug 23, 2024, at 5:48 AM, Brian Milby via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Another alternative.
> 
> If the short id of fld "xyz" is among the lines of the childcontrolids of group "abc" then …
> 
> This one should work as long as there is only one field with that name on the card (tried from message box).
> 
> Brian Milby
> brian at milby7.com
> 
>> On Aug 23, 2024, at 8:05 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> On 8/23/2024 7:45 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Hi jbv,
>>> 
>>>>> Am 23.08.2024 um 13:27 schrieb jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi list,
>>>> 
>>>> Is there a quick way to check if a group contains a specific control,
>>>> something like :
>>>> if there is a fld "xyz" in grp "abc" of this cd
>>>> I tried many things but it always generates an error.
>>>> So far, the only way I can think of is to maintain a custom prop
>>>> for each group, featuring a string that is the list of all controls
>>>> names of the group.
>>> if you don't have any other controls with the same name,
>>> you could check:
>>> -> lineoffset("xyz",the childcontrolnames of grp "abc")
>>> 
>> 
>> or, if you prefer:
>> 
>> if "xyz" is among the lines of the childcontrolnames of group "abc" then
>> 
>> NOTE: As mentioned, "xyz" would need to be a unique name for control in the group. If you have a field "xyz" and a button "xyz" (or 2 buttons or 2 or more fields with the same name, etc.) this is not accurate.
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From curry at pair.com  Sun Aug 25 04:53:34 2024
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2024 04:53:34 -0400
Subject: Bowing Out
In-Reply-To: <F4D01149-7B73-471E-948C-9F6DBE19720B@mac.com>
References: <F4D01149-7B73-471E-948C-9F6DBE19720B@mac.com>
Message-ID: <c76e7b6d-207e-4955-8293-a964d91ba238@pair.com>

Graham:

 > but really its goodbye and thanks for all the fish.

Much love/respect, appreciation, and an extra-special fish -

Keep in touch on/off-list.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
"PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
https://livecodeconsulting.com/


From curry at pair.com  Sun Aug 25 19:01:12 2024
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2024 19:01:12 -0400
Subject: How to check if a group contains a specific control ?
In-Reply-To: <963358ee2ad8f11dfe3b95f474d3891c@souslelogo.com>
References: <963358ee2ad8f11dfe3b95f474d3891c@souslelogo.com>
Message-ID: <7383f4d0-6296-4a61-9135-7ed47bfa35d8@pair.com>

jbv:

 > Is there a quick way to check if a group contains a specific control,
 > something like : if there is a fld "xyz" in grp "abc" of this cd
 > I tried many things but it always generates an error.

Here is an easy and elegant way - almost what you started with!
The key is 'of' versus 'in'. They are not quite the same.

Try this - tested Win/Mac, LC 9.6:

if there is a field "xyz" of group "abc" of this card then answer "xyz"
put there is a field "xyz" of group "abc" of this card & cr after t

For objects/controls, 'of' is the correct syntax.
But 'in' is mainly used for text. Not a safe substitute here!

(The Message Box may just ignore everything after 'in' -
testing only for a field "xyz". That can confuse about 'of' and 'in'.)

The Script Editor will actually error, since 'in' is unexpected.

Happy coding...

Curry Kenworthy

Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
"PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
https://livecodeconsulting.com/


From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Aug 26 06:30:08 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 12:30:08 +0200
Subject: Error creating Android Standalone
In-Reply-To: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>

Hi all,

I get the same error in the macOS Terminal when trying to execute a JAVA command.
Something is not (yet) installed on my machine!? Question is: what is it?

Please help, thank you!

> Am 23.08.2024 um 11:55 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi friends,
> 
> I get an error when creating an Android runtime:
> ----------------------------------------------
> There was an error while saving the standalone application could not encode class bundle - error:
> Error: AJNI error has occurred, please check your installation and try again Exception in thread "main" java.lang. UnsupportedClassVersionError:
> com/android/tools/r8/D8 has been compiled by a more recent version of the Java Runtime (class file version 55.0), this version of the Java Runtime only recognizes class file versions up to 52.0
> at java.lang.ClassLoader.defineClass 1(Native Method)
> at java.lang.ClassLoader.defineClass(ClassLoader.java:756)
> at java.security.SecureClassLoader.defineClass(SecureClassLoader.java:142)
> at java.net.URLClassLoader.defineClass(URLClassLoader.java:473)
> at java.net.URLClassLoader.access$100(URLClassLoader.java:74)
> at java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run(URLClassLoader.java:369)
> at java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run(URLClassLoader.java:363)
> at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method) at java.net.URLClassLoader.findClass(URLClassLoader.java:362)
> at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:418)
> at sun.misc.LauncherSAppClassLoader.loadClass(Launcher.java:355)
> at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:351)
> at sun.launcher.LauncherHelper.checkAndLoadMain(LauncherHelper.java:601)
> -------------------------------------------------

Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From merakosp at gmail.com  Mon Aug 26 06:43:41 2024
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 13:43:41 +0300
Subject: Error creating Android Standalone
In-Reply-To: <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Klaus,

What is your installed version of the *build-tools*? LiveCode expects
*only* version 31.0.0.

You can find the installed version here - you should have a subfolder named
"31.0.0" here:

/Users/<username>/Library/Android/sdk/build-tools/

If you have any newer version installed too, you have to remove it.

Kind regards,
Panos
--

From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Aug 26 07:00:02 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 13:00:02 +0200
Subject: Error creating Android Standalone
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <442D6A06-5676-45F4-BCDE-67D2C129AC09@major-k.de>

Hello Panos,

> Am 26.08.2024 um 12:43 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hello Klaus,
> 
> What is your installed version of the *build-tools*? LiveCode expects
> *only* version 31.0.0.
> You can find the installed version here - you should have a subfolder named
> "31.0.0" here:
> /Users/<username>/Library/Android/sdk/build-tools/
> If you have any newer version installed too, you have to remove it.
> 
> Kind regards,
> Panos

YES, that was it, I also had build tools 34 installed.
Thank you very much! :-)


Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Aug 26 07:05:15 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 13:05:15 +0200
Subject: Error creating Android Standalone
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7FDF98F6-1158-48C8-8F19-360A52E43EFD@major-k.de>

Hi Panos,

creating Anddroid runtimes now works with LC, however when 
using the macOS Terminal for a JAVA command, I still get these errors:
-------------------------------------------
Error: A JNI error has occurred, please check your installation and try again
Exception in thread "main" java.lang.UnsupportedClassVersionError: com/google/wireless/android/vending/developer/signing/tools/extern/export/ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool has been compiled by a more recent version of the Java Runtime (class file version 55.0), this version of the Java Runtime only recognizes class file versions up to 52.0
at java.lang.ClassLoader.defineClass1(Native Method)
at java.lang.ClassLoader.defineClass(ClassLoader.java:756)
at java.security.SecureClassLoader.defineClass(SecureClassLoader.java:142)
at java.net.URLClassLoader.defineClass(URLClassLoader.java:473)
at java.net.URLClassLoader.access$100(URLClassLoader.java:74)
at java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run(URLClassLoader.java:369)
at java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run(URLClassLoader.java:363)
at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method)
at java.net.URLClassLoader.findClass(URLClassLoader.java:362)
at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:418)
at sun.misc.Launcher$AppClassLoader.loadClass(Launcher.java:355)
at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:351)
at sun.launcher.LauncherHelper.checkAndLoadMain(LauncherHelper.java:601)
-----------------------------------------------
What is still wrong?


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From merakosp at gmail.com  Mon Aug 26 07:19:44 2024
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 14:19:44 +0300
Subject: Error creating Android Standalone
In-Reply-To: <7FDF98F6-1158-48C8-8F19-360A52E43EFD@major-k.de>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <7FDF98F6-1158-48C8-8F19-360A52E43EFD@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq9UiszJiLndFyMRf7XC1c7HmhxajaL4ayB54GQLm7Z9_A@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Klaus,

Hmm, it might be the case the terminal needs a newer Java version than the
one LiveCode expects. LiveCode expects v8.

What Java command do you want to execute in the terminal?

Kind regards,
Panos


On Mon, 26 Aug 2024 at 14:06, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Panos,
>
> creating Anddroid runtimes now works with LC, however when
> using the macOS Terminal for a JAVA command, I still get these errors:
> -------------------------------------------
> Error: A JNI error has occurred, please check your installation and try
> again
> Exception in thread "main" java.lang.UnsupportedClassVersionError:
> com/google/wireless/android/vending/developer/signing/tools/extern/export/ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool
> has been compiled by a more recent version of the Java Runtime (class file
> version 55.0), this version of the Java Runtime only recognizes class file
> versions up to 52.0
> at java.lang.ClassLoader.defineClass1(Native Method)
> at java.lang.ClassLoader.defineClass(ClassLoader.java:756)
> at java.security.SecureClassLoader.defineClass(SecureClassLoader.java:142)
> at java.net.URLClassLoader.defineClass(URLClassLoader.java:473)
> at java.net.URLClassLoader.access$100(URLClassLoader.java:74)
> at java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run(URLClassLoader.java:369)
> at java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run(URLClassLoader.java:363)
> at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method)
> at java.net.URLClassLoader.findClass(URLClassLoader.java:362)
> at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:418)
> at sun.misc.Launcher$AppClassLoader.loadClass(Launcher.java:355)
> at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:351)
> at sun.launcher.LauncherHelper.checkAndLoadMain(LauncherHelper.java:601)
> -----------------------------------------------
> What is still wrong?
>
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Aug 26 07:36:59 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 13:36:59 +0200
Subject: Error creating Android Standalone
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq9UiszJiLndFyMRf7XC1c7HmhxajaL4ayB54GQLm7Z9_A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <7FDF98F6-1158-48C8-8F19-360A52E43EFD@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq9UiszJiLndFyMRf7XC1c7HmhxajaL4ayB54GQLm7Z9_A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E1FB5230-F5FF-45D6-9AC0-B2292E109402@major-k.de>

Hi Panos,

> Am 26.08.2024 um 13:19 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hello Klaus,
> 
> Hmm, it might be the case the terminal needs a newer Java version than the
> one LiveCode expects. LiveCode expects v8.
> What Java command do you want to execute in the terminal?

see my mail from 13:25 with more info.

> Kind regards,
> Panos

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From merakosp at gmail.com  Mon Aug 26 07:50:56 2024
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 14:50:56 +0300
Subject: Error creating Android Standalone
In-Reply-To: <E1FB5230-F5FF-45D6-9AC0-B2292E109402@major-k.de>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <7FDF98F6-1158-48C8-8F19-360A52E43EFD@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq9UiszJiLndFyMRf7XC1c7HmhxajaL4ayB54GQLm7Z9_A@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1FB5230-F5FF-45D6-9AC0-B2292E109402@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq_isvRSh6AKoYP0tHmLnZCP6phZYYxtXaw=Oy219HQF0w@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Klaus,

Hmm, I do not see anything from 13:25 - could you paste it here?

Thanks,
Panos


On Mon, 26 Aug 2024 at 14:38, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Panos,
>
> > Am 26.08.2024 um 13:19 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> >
> > Hello Klaus,
> >
> > Hmm, it might be the case the terminal needs a newer Java version than
> the
> > one LiveCode expects. LiveCode expects v8.
> > What Java command do you want to execute in the terminal?
>
> see my mail from 13:25 with more info.
>
> > Kind regards,
> > Panos
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
>
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Aug 26 07:54:20 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 13:54:20 +0200
Subject: Error creating Android Standalone
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq_isvRSh6AKoYP0tHmLnZCP6phZYYxtXaw=Oy219HQF0w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <7FDF98F6-1158-48C8-8F19-360A52E43EFD@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq9UiszJiLndFyMRf7XC1c7HmhxajaL4ayB54GQLm7Z9_A@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1FB5230-F5FF-45D6-9AC0-B2292E109402@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_isvRSh6AKoYP0tHmLnZCP6phZYYxtXaw=Oy219HQF0w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E796D252-5E5E-4AE1-B7BD-29916781AFE5@major-k.de>

Hi Panos,

> Am 26.08.2024 um 13:50 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hello Klaus,
> 
> Hmm, I do not see anything from 13:25 - could you paste it here?

Sure:
----------------------------------------------------------------
More specific infos:
I need Google to reset my upload keystore file, you may remember, it was about two weeks ago.
Hint: Only the OWNER of the developer account has permission to request a key reset!

I was able to create the new keystore and PEM file as Google suggested:
---------------------------------
1.    • Follow the instructions in the Android Studio Help Center to generate a new key. It must be different from any previous keys, be a 2048-bit RSA key, and have 25-year validity. Alternatively, you can use the following command line to generate a new key:
      • keytool -genkeypair -alias upload -keyalg RSA -keysize 2048 -validity 9125 -keystore keystore.jks
2.    • Export the certificate for that key to PEM format:
      • keytool -export -rfc -alias upload -file upload_certificate.pem -keystore keystore.jks
3.    • Once you have generated a PEM file please follow the steps below:
      • Go to Setup > App integrity > App Signing.
      • Request Upload key reset.
      • Give a reason why you’re requesting a key reset.
      • Enter PEM file.
      • Click Request.
----------------------------------
But on the Google Play Console page for "App singning" Google will not accept the above mentioned (and proposed) PEM file in #3!
I need to download a "pepk.jar" file and use the terninal with this command (as seen 4 days ago on that page):
---------------------------------
$ java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=foo.keystore --alias=foo --output=output.zip signing-keystore=uploadkey.keystore --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias --rsa-aes - encryption --encryption-key-path=/path/to/encryption_public_key.pem

And then I get the errors below.
is the "pepk.jar" the problem and not compatible with my JAVA installation?

Strangely Matthias Rebbe saw this command on the "App singing" page YESTERDAY:
---------------------------------
java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=foo.keystore --alias=foo --output=output.zip --include-cert --rsa-aes-encryption --encryption-key-path=/path/to/encryption_public_key.pem

???

Both commands do not seem to work, I am completely lost and I don't even know where in the commands I need to put MY data in.
OK -> --keysore=##name of my keystore file## 8-)

Please can someone knowing give me some very good advice?
Android deadline (API 34) is this saturday, sigh... :-/
----------------------------------------------------------------

> Thanks,
> Panos
> 
> On Mon, 26 Aug 2024 at 14:38, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Panos,
>> 
>>> Am 26.08.2024 um 13:19 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> Hello Klaus,
>>> 
>>> Hmm, it might be the case the terminal needs a newer Java version than
>> the
>>> one LiveCode expects. LiveCode expects v8.
>>> What Java command do you want to execute in the terminal?
>> 
>> see my mail from 13:25 with more info.
>> 
>>> Kind regards,
>>> Panos
>> 
>> Best
>> 
>> Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From merakosp at gmail.com  Mon Aug 26 08:19:02 2024
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 15:19:02 +0300
Subject: Error creating Android Standalone
In-Reply-To: <E796D252-5E5E-4AE1-B7BD-29916781AFE5@major-k.de>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <7FDF98F6-1158-48C8-8F19-360A52E43EFD@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq9UiszJiLndFyMRf7XC1c7HmhxajaL4ayB54GQLm7Z9_A@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1FB5230-F5FF-45D6-9AC0-B2292E109402@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_isvRSh6AKoYP0tHmLnZCP6phZYYxtXaw=Oy219HQF0w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E796D252-5E5E-4AE1-B7BD-29916781AFE5@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq8rRg-DvnJ5MPSkyVr0CyTEMhm4EQn8dyOs5NOoQU+3mg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Klaus,

Ok I see.

Yes, so it seems you need to install a newer JDK version to work with the
terminal. So you need to do some JDK "dance":


- Download and install a newer (version >= 20.x) version of the Java JDK
- Verify it is installed correctly, by checking in
/Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/ - you should see a subfolder named e.g.
"jdk-20.0.1.jdk" there.

- In the Terminal, navigate (using cd) to the folder containing your
resources (pepk.jar, foo.keystore)
- Try the terminal command now:

java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=foo --alias=foo --output=output.zip
--rsa-aes-encryption
--encryption-key-path=/path/to/your/encryption_public_key.pem

If the command is successful, you should see a file "output.zip" in that
folder, which you have to upload to the Play Store

Note: To verify that the Terminal will indeed use the new jdk version
rather than the "old" v8 one, you can do in the Terminal:

java -version

If this still returns v8, thn try to temporarily remove v8 from
/Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/ and put it back once the terminal
command succeeds.

Hope this helps.

Kind regards,
Panos
--

From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Aug 26 08:32:48 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 14:32:48 +0200
Subject: Error creating Android Standalone
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq8rRg-DvnJ5MPSkyVr0CyTEMhm4EQn8dyOs5NOoQU+3mg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <7FDF98F6-1158-48C8-8F19-360A52E43EFD@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq9UiszJiLndFyMRf7XC1c7HmhxajaL4ayB54GQLm7Z9_A@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1FB5230-F5FF-45D6-9AC0-B2292E109402@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_isvRSh6AKoYP0tHmLnZCP6phZYYxtXaw=Oy219HQF0w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E796D252-5E5E-4AE1-B7BD-29916781AFE5@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq8rRg-DvnJ5MPSkyVr0CyTEMhm4EQn8dyOs5NOoQU+3mg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DC0EE835-E7E2-4761-ABF2-7C3980062408@major-k.de>

Hi Panos,

thank you, will try this!

java -version gives me:
---------------------
java version "1.8.0_311"
Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 1.8.0_311-b11)
Java HotSpot(TM) 64-Bit Server VM (build 25.311-b11, mixed mode)

And i don't even have a folder Java in /Library/

Question:
--------------------
> java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=foo --alias=foo --output=output.zip
> --rsa-aes-encryption
> --encryption-key-path=/path/to/your/encryption_public_key.pem
---------------------
Is this:

> ...
> --encryption-key-path=/path/to/your/encryption_public_key.pem

The PEM file I already created?

Why is this all so damn difficult and complicated? :-/

> Am 26.08.2024 um 14:19 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hello Klaus,
> 
> Ok I see.
> 
> Yes, so it seems you need to install a newer JDK version to work with the
> terminal. So you need to do some JDK "dance":
> 
> 
> - Download and install a newer (version >= 20.x) version of the Java JDK
> - Verify it is installed correctly, by checking in
> /Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/ - you should see a subfolder named e.g.
> "jdk-20.0.1.jdk" there.
> 
> - In the Terminal, navigate (using cd) to the folder containing your
> resources (pepk.jar, foo.keystore)
> - Try the terminal command now:
> 
> java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=foo --alias=foo --output=output.zip
> --rsa-aes-encryption
> --encryption-key-path=/path/to/your/encryption_public_key.pem
> 
> If the command is successful, you should see a file "output.zip" in that
> folder, which you have to upload to the Play Store
> 
> Note: To verify that the Terminal will indeed use the new jdk version
> rather than the "old" v8 one, you can do in the Terminal:
> 
> java -version
> 
> If this still returns v8, thn try to temporarily remove v8 from
> /Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/ and put it back once the terminal
> command succeeds.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> Kind regards,
> Panos

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From merakosp at gmail.com  Mon Aug 26 08:49:16 2024
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 15:49:16 +0300
Subject: Error creating Android Standalone
In-Reply-To: <DC0EE835-E7E2-4761-ABF2-7C3980062408@major-k.de>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <7FDF98F6-1158-48C8-8F19-360A52E43EFD@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq9UiszJiLndFyMRf7XC1c7HmhxajaL4ayB54GQLm7Z9_A@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1FB5230-F5FF-45D6-9AC0-B2292E109402@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_isvRSh6AKoYP0tHmLnZCP6phZYYxtXaw=Oy219HQF0w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E796D252-5E5E-4AE1-B7BD-29916781AFE5@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq8rRg-DvnJ5MPSkyVr0CyTEMhm4EQn8dyOs5NOoQU+3mg@mail.gmail.com>
 <DC0EE835-E7E2-4761-ABF2-7C3980062408@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq_d_HEScYH76p0RMC__V8RCqEqfbmhsFTPPkCXG8LL+EA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Klaus,




*> Is this:> ...>
--encryption-key-path=/path/to/your/encryption_public_key.pem> The PEM file
I already created?*

Yes this is it.

*> And i don't even have a folder Java in /Library/*

This is not possible! Note that I am referring to the system Library folder
(i.e. /Library/) - not the user's Library folder (i.e. not
/Users/<username>/Library/)

Since java -version returns java version "1.8.0_311" it means you have a
folder named "jdk1.8.0_311.jdk" in /Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/

Kind regards,
Panos
--

On Mon, 26 Aug 2024 at 15:33, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Panos,
>
> thank you, will try this!
>
> java -version gives me:
> ---------------------
> java version "1.8.0_311"
> Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 1.8.0_311-b11)
> Java HotSpot(TM) 64-Bit Server VM (build 25.311-b11, mixed mode)
>
> And i don't even have a folder Java in /Library/
>
> Question:
> --------------------
> > java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=foo --alias=foo --output=output.zip
> > --rsa-aes-encryption
> > --encryption-key-path=/path/to/your/encryption_public_key.pem
> ---------------------
> Is this:
>
> > ...
> > --encryption-key-path=/path/to/your/encryption_public_key.pem
>
> The PEM file I already created?
>
> Why is this all so damn difficult and complicated? :-/
>
> > Am 26.08.2024 um 14:19 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> >
> > Hello Klaus,
> >
> > Ok I see.
> >
> > Yes, so it seems you need to install a newer JDK version to work with the
> > terminal. So you need to do some JDK "dance":
> >
> >
> > - Download and install a newer (version >= 20.x) version of the Java JDK
> > - Verify it is installed correctly, by checking in
> > /Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/ - you should see a subfolder named
> e.g.
> > "jdk-20.0.1.jdk" there.
> >
> > - In the Terminal, navigate (using cd) to the folder containing your
> > resources (pepk.jar, foo.keystore)
> > - Try the terminal command now:
> >
> > java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=foo --alias=foo --output=output.zip
> > --rsa-aes-encryption
> > --encryption-key-path=/path/to/your/encryption_public_key.pem
> >
> > If the command is successful, you should see a file "output.zip" in that
> > folder, which you have to upload to the Play Store
> >
> > Note: To verify that the Terminal will indeed use the new jdk version
> > rather than the "old" v8 one, you can do in the Terminal:
> >
> > java -version
> >
> > If this still returns v8, thn try to temporarily remove v8 from
> > /Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/ and put it back once the terminal
> > command succeeds.
> >
> > Hope this helps.
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > Panos
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
>
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Aug 26 08:56:33 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 14:56:33 +0200
Subject: Error creating Android Standalone
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq_d_HEScYH76p0RMC__V8RCqEqfbmhsFTPPkCXG8LL+EA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <7FDF98F6-1158-48C8-8F19-360A52E43EFD@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq9UiszJiLndFyMRf7XC1c7HmhxajaL4ayB54GQLm7Z9_A@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1FB5230-F5FF-45D6-9AC0-B2292E109402@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_isvRSh6AKoYP0tHmLnZCP6phZYYxtXaw=Oy219HQF0w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E796D252-5E5E-4AE1-B7BD-29916781AFE5@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq8rRg-DvnJ5MPSkyVr0CyTEMhm4EQn8dyOs5NOoQU+3mg@mail.gmail.com>
 <DC0EE835-E7E2-4761-ABF2-7C3980062408@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_d_HEScYH76p0RMC__V8RCqEqfbmhsFTPPkCXG8LL+EA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <748291BF-A6BC-45A6-8177-FB884885AB68@major-k.de>

Hi Panos,

> Am 26.08.2024 um 14:49 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hello Klaus,
> 
> *> Is this:> ...>
> --encryption-key-path=/path/to/your/encryption_public_key.pem> The PEM file
> I already created?*
> 
> Yes this is it.

aha, I guessed, thank you!

Google could be a TAD more specific in my opinion.
Not everyone is a knowing JAVA developer.

> *> And i don't even have a folder Java in /Library/*
> 
> This is not possible! Note that I am referring to the system Library folder
> (i.e. /Library/) - not the user's Library folder (i.e. not
> /Users/<username>/Library/)

Oops, yes sorry.

> Since java -version returns java version "1.8.0_311" it means you have a
> folder named "jdk1.8.0_311.jdk" in /Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/

Yep, I have this folder in JavaVirtualMachines: jdk1.8.0_281.jdk

> Kind regards,
> Panos
> --

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Aug 26 10:43:27 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 16:43:27 +0200
Subject: Error creating Android Standalone
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5371AAFB-9C33-4443-8EB2-715EA981BD93@major-k.de>

Hi all,

> Am 26.08.2024 um 12:43 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hello Klaus,
> 
> What is your installed version of the *build-tools*? LiveCode expects
> *only* version 31.0.0.
> 
> You can find the installed version here - you should have a subfolder named
> "31.0.0" here:
> /Users/<username>/Library/Android/sdk/build-tools/
> If you have any newer version installed too, you have to remove it.

for your interest:
I found that "Android Studio" automatically installs "buid tools 34" without asking
when I create a new adaptive icon there, did not find a setting to stop this.

So I always need to remove this again before creating a runtime in LC...

> Kind regards,
> Panos
> --

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Mon Aug 26 11:25:03 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 15:25:03 +0000
Subject: Error creating Android Standalone
In-Reply-To: <DC0EE835-E7E2-4761-ABF2-7C3980062408@major-k.de>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <7FDF98F6-1158-48C8-8F19-360A52E43EFD@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq9UiszJiLndFyMRf7XC1c7HmhxajaL4ayB54GQLm7Z9_A@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1FB5230-F5FF-45D6-9AC0-B2292E109402@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_isvRSh6AKoYP0tHmLnZCP6phZYYxtXaw=Oy219HQF0w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E796D252-5E5E-4AE1-B7BD-29916781AFE5@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq8rRg-DvnJ5MPSkyVr0CyTEMhm4EQn8dyOs5NOoQU+3mg@mail.gmail.com>
 <DC0EE835-E7E2-4761-ABF2-7C3980062408@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <F0EC5BE0-7A5F-492B-BA20-833F46626988@iotecdigital.com>

Every entity is trying to solve their own subset of problems. The real question is, why has the industry seemingly abandoned the concept of, “backwards compatible”? It seems nowadays that we are all expected; no required to upgrade to the latest greatest, irrespective of the catch 22’s like yours that will inevitably result.

That being said, I wonder that there is no a command to tell terminal or Livecode which version of the engine you want to work with.

Bob S


On Aug 26, 2024, at 5:32 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

Why is this all so damn difficult and complicated? :-/



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Mon Aug 26 11:29:09 2024
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 17:29:09 +0200
Subject: Error creating Android Standalone
In-Reply-To: <F0EC5BE0-7A5F-492B-BA20-833F46626988@iotecdigital.com>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <7FDF98F6-1158-48C8-8F19-360A52E43EFD@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq9UiszJiLndFyMRf7XC1c7HmhxajaL4ayB54GQLm7Z9_A@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1FB5230-F5FF-45D6-9AC0-B2292E109402@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_isvRSh6AKoYP0tHmLnZCP6phZYYxtXaw=Oy219HQF0w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E796D252-5E5E-4AE1-B7BD-29916781AFE5@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq8rRg-DvnJ5MPSkyVr0CyTEMhm4EQn8dyOs5NOoQU+3mg@mail.gmail.com>
 <DC0EE835-E7E2-4761-ABF2-7C3980062408@major-k.de>
 <F0EC5BE0-7A5F-492B-BA20-833F46626988@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <C5F2633B-7691-4C34-A8B5-DD4BA2C7F2E8@m-r-d.de>

+1

> Am 26.08.2024 um 17:25 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Every entity is trying to solve their own subset of problems. The real question is, why has the industry seemingly abandoned the concept of, “backwards compatible”? It seems nowadays that we are all expected; no required to upgrade to the latest greatest, irrespective of the catch 22’s like yours that will inevitably result.
> 
> That being said, I wonder that there is no a command to tell terminal or Livecode which version of the engine you want to work with.
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
> On Aug 26, 2024, at 5:32 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Why is this all so damn difficult and complicated? :-/
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From merakosp at gmail.com  Mon Aug 26 12:47:28 2024
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 19:47:28 +0300
Subject: Error creating Android Standalone
In-Reply-To: <C5F2633B-7691-4C34-A8B5-DD4BA2C7F2E8@m-r-d.de>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <7FDF98F6-1158-48C8-8F19-360A52E43EFD@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq9UiszJiLndFyMRf7XC1c7HmhxajaL4ayB54GQLm7Z9_A@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1FB5230-F5FF-45D6-9AC0-B2292E109402@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_isvRSh6AKoYP0tHmLnZCP6phZYYxtXaw=Oy219HQF0w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E796D252-5E5E-4AE1-B7BD-29916781AFE5@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq8rRg-DvnJ5MPSkyVr0CyTEMhm4EQn8dyOs5NOoQU+3mg@mail.gmail.com>
 <DC0EE835-E7E2-4761-ABF2-7C3980062408@major-k.de>
 <F0EC5BE0-7A5F-492B-BA20-833F46626988@iotecdigital.com>
 <C5F2633B-7691-4C34-A8B5-DD4BA2C7F2E8@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq9UggUdKBf4Pk-_zMwjwb+VnDAftCRFsw9EFeDyVGeFWg@mail.gmail.com>

In the IDE, in the mobile prefs, there is an invisible button (I think it
is called "chooseJDK" or such - I am not in the office now) that allows you
to manually choose the desired JDK path. That way we could have both JDK v8
(required by LC) and newer ones installed.

I am not sure why this button is hidden though - but you could make it
visible by doing in the msg box:

set the visible of button "chooseJDK" of card "mobile support" of stack
"revPreferencesGUI" to true

Kind regards,
Panos
--

On Mon, 26 Aug 2024 at 18:30, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> +1
>
> > Am 26.08.2024 um 17:25 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> >
> > Every entity is trying to solve their own subset of problems. The real
> question is, why has the industry seemingly abandoned the concept of,
> “backwards compatible”? It seems nowadays that we are all expected; no
> required to upgrade to the latest greatest, irrespective of the catch 22’s
> like yours that will inevitably result.
> >
> > That being said, I wonder that there is no a command to tell terminal or
> Livecode which version of the engine you want to work with.
> >
> > Bob S
> >
> >
> > On Aug 26, 2024, at 5:32 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Why is this all so damn difficult and complicated? :-/
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Mon Aug 26 15:34:47 2024
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 21:34:47 +0200
Subject: Error creating Android Standalone
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq9UggUdKBf4Pk-_zMwjwb+VnDAftCRFsw9EFeDyVGeFWg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <7FDF98F6-1158-48C8-8F19-360A52E43EFD@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq9UiszJiLndFyMRf7XC1c7HmhxajaL4ayB54GQLm7Z9_A@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1FB5230-F5FF-45D6-9AC0-B2292E109402@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_isvRSh6AKoYP0tHmLnZCP6phZYYxtXaw=Oy219HQF0w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E796D252-5E5E-4AE1-B7BD-29916781AFE5@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq8rRg-DvnJ5MPSkyVr0CyTEMhm4EQn8dyOs5NOoQU+3mg@mail.gmail.com>
 <DC0EE835-E7E2-4761-ABF2-7C3980062408@major-k.de>
 <F0EC5BE0-7A5F-492B-BA20-833F46626988@iotecdigital.com>
 <C5F2633B-7691-4C34-A8B5-DD4BA2C7F2E8@m-r-d.de>
 <CA+JfEq9UggUdKBf4Pk-_zMwjwb+VnDAftCRFsw9EFeDyVGeFWg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ACA22D0F-31D4-4D9D-88A9-31BD140EEA21@m-r-d.de>

Thanks Panos!

Regards,
Matthias


> Am 26.08.2024 um 18:47 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> In the IDE, in the mobile prefs, there is an invisible button (I think it
> is called "chooseJDK" or such - I am not in the office now) that allows you
> to manually choose the desired JDK path. That way we could have both JDK v8
> (required by LC) and newer ones installed.
> 
> I am not sure why this button is hidden though - but you could make it
> visible by doing in the msg box:
> 
> set the visible of button "chooseJDK" of card "mobile support" of stack
> "revPreferencesGUI" to true
> 
> Kind regards,
> Panos
> --
> 
> On Mon, 26 Aug 2024 at 18:30, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> +1
>> 
>>> Am 26.08.2024 um 17:25 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> Every entity is trying to solve their own subset of problems. The real
>> question is, why has the industry seemingly abandoned the concept of,
>> “backwards compatible”? It seems nowadays that we are all expected; no
>> required to upgrade to the latest greatest, irrespective of the catch 22’s
>> like yours that will inevitably result.
>>> 
>>> That being said, I wonder that there is no a command to tell terminal or
>> Livecode which version of the engine you want to work with.
>>> 
>>> Bob S
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Aug 26, 2024, at 5:32 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Why is this all so damn difficult and complicated? :-/
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From klaus at major-k.de  Tue Aug 27 08:06:22 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2024 14:06:22 +0200
Subject: Still problems with creating the neccessary file for keystore reset
 (Lengthy mail)
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F94EB80A-150C-4F77-83DB-12816D167BCF@major-k.de>

Hi all,

"The torture never stops" (F.Z.)

We are still struggling with creating the correct file for Google to reset the upload key,
and I get the feeling that Google is incompatible with Google!?

The very long story:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
LC 10rc1, macOS 14.6.1 on a M2 Mac Mini

Android Studio Iguana | 2023.2.1 Patch 1
Build #AI-232.10300.40.2321.11567975, built on March 13, 2024
Runtime version: 17.0.9+0-17.0.9b1087.7-11185874 aarch64
VM: OpenJDK 64-Bit Server VM by JetBrains s.r.o.
macOS 14.6.1
GC: G1 Young Generation, G1 Old Generation
Memory: 2048M
Cores: 8
Metal Rendering is ON
Registry:
    ide.experimental.ui=true

Google support reponded to my question (Can I rest the upload keystore?) with the instructions quoted below.

I created a new keystore file with "Android Studio":

> 1.    • Follow the instructions in the Android Studio Help Center to generate a new key.
> It must be different from any previous keys, be a 2048-bit RSA key, and have 25-year validity.
> Alternatively, you can use the following command line to generate a new key:
>        • keytool -genkeypair -alias upload -keyalg RSA -keysize 2048 -validity 9125 -keystore keystore.jks

Worked out fine and Matthias Rebbe and I could use it with LC to sign my Android app without any problems!
-----------------------------------------
Keystore file -> android_upload.keystore
Password: XXX1

Key:
Alias: sehenkey
Password: XXX2
-----------------------------------------

> 2.    • Export the certificate for that key to PEM format:
>        • keytool -export -rfc -alias upload -file upload_certificate.pem -keystore keystore.jks

Created the PEM file successfully -> upload_certificate.pem

> 3.    • Once you have generated a PEM file please follow the steps below:
>        • Go to Setup > App integrity > App Signing.
>        • Request Upload key reset.
>        • Give a reason why you’re requesting a key reset.
>        • Enter PEM file.
>        • Click Request.

Google does not accept the above mentioned PEM file (BIG fun, thank you support) and shows a JAVA terminal
command that would output a ZIPped PEM file to upload to Google. 

See a screenshot here: <https://major-k.de/java_terminal.png>
(Strangely Matthias Rebbe saw a completely differenet command in HIS account on the app signing page!?)

And also let me download a JAR file "pepk.jar" which obviously does the actual work.


Matthias was so kind to check the terminal stuff for me with a higher JAVA version (jdk 20), so I could avoid the SDK "dance" :-)
The script with all placeholder replaced with my data, maybe this is not completely correct?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey --output=output.zip signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias --rsa-aes -encryption --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But here is what he got:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Error: Unable to parse the input: [--keystore=android_upload.keystore, --alias=sehenkey, --output=output.zip, signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore, --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias, --rsa-aes, -encryption, --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem]
java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Invalid argument: signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore
at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.Utils.processArgs(Utils.java:32)
at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.main(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:110)
USAGE:
       java -jar pepk.jar
         --keystore <release_keystore>
         --alias <key_alias>
         --output=<output_file>
         (--rsa-aes-encryption --encryption-key-path=</path/to/encryption_public_key.pem> | --encryptionkey=<encryption_key_hex>)
         [--signing-keystore <keystore> [--signing-key-alias=<alias>]]
         [--include-cert]

pepk (Play Encrypt Private Key) is a tool for exporting private keys from a
Java Keystore and encrypting them for transfer to Google Play as part of
enrolling in App Signing by Google Play.


        REQUIRED FLAGS

--keystore            Path to the keystore containing the private key to export.

--alias               Alias of the private key in the keystore.

--output              File in which to output the encrypted private key.

        OPTIONAL FLAGS

--keystore-pass       Password for the keystore. If not set, will be prompted on
                      the command line.

--key-pass            Password for the key inside the keystore. If not set, the
                      same password as the keystore will be used, or if none was
                      set, it will be prompted on the command line.

--signing-keystore    Path to the keystore containing the private key that will
                      be used for signing the exported encrypted private key.

--signing-key-alias   Alias of the private key used for signing in the
                      signing Keystore. Must be specified if --signing-keystore
                      flag is set.

--rsa-aes-encryption  Use RSA AES Key Wrap encryption for encrypting the
                      private key.

--encryption-key-path Path to the PEM-encoded public key to be used for
                      encrypting the private key. Must be specified if
                      --rsa-aes-encryption is set.

--encryptionkey       Public key to encrypt the private key with. This will be
                      the hex encoded bytes of the public key. The public key
                      is a 4-byte identity followed by a 64-byte P256 point.
                      Must be specified if --rsa-aes-encryption is not set.

--include-cert        Include the public certificate to be exported along with
                      the encrypted private key.

        OTHER OPTIONS

--help                Show this usage page and exit.

--license             Show the license for the tool and exit.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So we got stuck!? 
Any insight highly appreciated! 
Also off-list if neccessary.

Thanks a lot in advance!


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From mark at livecode.com  Tue Aug 27 08:11:53 2024
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2024 13:11:53 +0100
Subject: Still problems with creating the neccessary file for keystore
 reset (Lengthy mail)
In-Reply-To: <F94EB80A-150C-4F77-83DB-12816D167BCF@major-k.de>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <F94EB80A-150C-4F77-83DB-12816D167BCF@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <5e55c3d97ffc70543f380c54a88ae648@livecode.com>

On 2024-08-27 13:06, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey 
> --output=output.zip signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore 
> --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias --rsa-aes -encryption 
> --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem

There's a missing `--` in front of `signing-keystore` - that's causing 
the args error:

> Error: Unable to parse the input: [--keystore=android_upload.keystore, 
> --alias=sehenkey, --output=output.zip, 
> signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore, 
> --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias, --rsa-aes, -encryption, 
> --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem]
> java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Invalid argument: 
> signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things


From klaus at major-k.de  Tue Aug 27 15:19:10 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2024 21:19:10 +0200
Subject: Still problems with creating the neccessary file for keystore
 reset (Lengthy mail)
In-Reply-To: <5e55c3d97ffc70543f380c54a88ae648@livecode.com>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <F94EB80A-150C-4F77-83DB-12816D167BCF@major-k.de>
 <5e55c3d97ffc70543f380c54a88ae648@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <C837AA3F-D425-40AF-8714-32368AAF71EC@major-k.de>

Hi Mark,

> Am 27.08.2024 um 14:11 schrieb Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> On 2024-08-27 13:06, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey --output=output.zip signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias --rsa-aes -encryption --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
> There's a missing `--` in front of `signing-keystore` - that's causing the args error:
>> Error: Unable to parse the input: [--keystore=android_upload.keystore, --alias=sehenkey, --output=output.zip, signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore, --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias, --rsa-aes, -encryption, --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem]
>> java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Invalid argument: signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore
> 
> Warmest Regards,
> 
> Mark.

thank you, but that was not it.

Here is what Matthias got with the two --
------------------------------------------------------------
 java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey --output=output.zip --signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias --rsa-aes-encryption --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
Enter password for store 'android_upload.keystore':
Enter password for key 'sehenkey':
Error: Unable to export or encrypt the private key
java.security.spec.InvalidKeySpecException: java.security.InvalidKeyException: Unable to decode key
at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAKeyFactory.engineGeneratePublic(RSAKeyFactory.java:241)
at java.base/java.security.KeyFactory.generatePublic(KeyFactory.java:351)
at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.readPublicKey(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:309)
at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.encryptPrivateKeyWithCkmRsaAesKeyWrapEncryption(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:283)
at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.run(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:213)
at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.main(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:165)
Caused by: java.security.InvalidKeyException: Unable to decode key
at java.base/sun.security.x509.X509Key.decode(X509Key.java:368)
at java.base/sun.security.x509.X509Key.decode(X509Key.java:374)
at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAPublicKeyImpl.<init>(RSAPublicKeyImpl.java:148)
at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAPublicKeyImpl.newKey(RSAPublicKeyImpl.java:80)
at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAKeyFactory.generatePublic(RSAKeyFactory.java:324)
at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAKeyFactory.engineGeneratePublic(RSAKeyFactory.java:237)
... 5 more
Caused by: java.io.IOException: DerValue.getOID, not an OID 2
at java.base/sun.security.util.DerValue.getOID(DerValue.java:552)
at java.base/sun.security.util.DerInputStream.getOID(DerInputStream.java:165)
at java.base/sun.security.x509.AlgorithmId.parse(AlgorithmId.java:398)
at java.base/sun.security.x509.X509Key.decode(X509Key.java:361)
... 10 more
------------------------------------------------------------
:-(

Any ideas?


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From klaus at major-k.de  Tue Aug 27 15:52:14 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2024 21:52:14 +0200
Subject: Still problems with creating the neccessary file for keystore
 reset (Lengthy mail)
In-Reply-To: <C837AA3F-D425-40AF-8714-32368AAF71EC@major-k.de>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <F94EB80A-150C-4F77-83DB-12816D167BCF@major-k.de>
 <5e55c3d97ffc70543f380c54a88ae648@livecode.com>
 <C837AA3F-D425-40AF-8714-32368AAF71EC@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <CED371B6-D59B-4E39-8B73-AE1D05FB2E5B@major-k.de>

Correction in the command:
--signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias
needs to be :
--signing-key-alias=sehenkey

But same errors. :-/

> Am 27.08.2024 um 21:19 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi Mark,
> 
>> Am 27.08.2024 um 14:11 schrieb Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> On 2024-08-27 13:06, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey --output=output.zip signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias --rsa-aes -encryption --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
>> There's a missing `--` in front of `signing-keystore` - that's causing the args error:
>>> Error: Unable to parse the input: [--keystore=android_upload.keystore, --alias=sehenkey, --output=output.zip, signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore, --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias, --rsa-aes, -encryption, --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem]
>>> java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Invalid argument: signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore
>> 
>> Warmest Regards,
>> 
>> Mark.
> 
> thank you, but that was not it.
> 
> Here is what Matthias got with the two --
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey --output=output.zip --signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias --rsa-aes-encryption --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey --output=output.zip --signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore --signing-key-alias=sehenkey --rsa-aes-encryption --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
> Enter password for store 'android_upload.keystore':
> Enter password for key 'sehenkey':
> Error: Unable to export or encrypt the private key
> java.security.spec.InvalidKeySpecException: java.security.InvalidKeyException: Unable to decode key
> at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAKeyFactory.engineGeneratePublic(RSAKeyFactory.java:241)
> at java.base/java.security.KeyFactory.generatePublic(KeyFactory.java:351)
> at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.readPublicKey(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:309)
> at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.encryptPrivateKeyWithCkmRsaAesKeyWrapEncryption(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:283)
> at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.run(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:213)
> at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.main(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:165)
> Caused by: java.security.InvalidKeyException: Unable to decode key
> at java.base/sun.security.x509.X509Key.decode(X509Key.java:368)
> at java.base/sun.security.x509.X509Key.decode(X509Key.java:374)
> at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAPublicKeyImpl.<init>(RSAPublicKeyImpl.java:148)
> at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAPublicKeyImpl.newKey(RSAPublicKeyImpl.java:80)
> at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAKeyFactory.generatePublic(RSAKeyFactory.java:324)
> at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAKeyFactory.engineGeneratePublic(RSAKeyFactory.java:237)
> ... 5 more
> Caused by: java.io.IOException: DerValue.getOID, not an OID 2
> at java.base/sun.security.util.DerValue.getOID(DerValue.java:552)
> at java.base/sun.security.util.DerInputStream.getOID(DerInputStream.java:165)
> at java.base/sun.security.x509.AlgorithmId.parse(AlgorithmId.java:398)
> at java.base/sun.security.x509.X509Key.decode(X509Key.java:361)
> ... 10 more
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> :-(
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From klaus at major-k.de  Wed Aug 28 02:36:44 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2024 08:36:44 +0200
Subject: Still problems with creating the neccessary file for keystore
 reset (Lengthy mail)
In-Reply-To: <CED371B6-D59B-4E39-8B73-AE1D05FB2E5B@major-k.de>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <F94EB80A-150C-4F77-83DB-12816D167BCF@major-k.de>
 <5e55c3d97ffc70543f380c54a88ae648@livecode.com>
 <C837AA3F-D425-40AF-8714-32368AAF71EC@major-k.de>
 <CED371B6-D59B-4E39-8B73-AE1D05FB2E5B@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <CB04C1D0-558D-4A36-98FA-9795D299301B@major-k.de>

Hi friends,

I really need your help, please, deadline is saturday! :-/

If someone who knows (at least a bit of) JAVA, could try this at home
see all my steps below, please send me a mail and I will send you the
"pepk.jar" file. Not sure if I can post it openly on my server.

Many, many thanks in advance!


Desparately

Klaus

> Am 27.08.2024 um 21:52 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Correction in the command:
> --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias
> needs to be :
> --signing-key-alias=sehenkey
> 
> But same errors. :-/
> 
>> Am 27.08.2024 um 21:19 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Hi Mark,
>> 
>>> Am 27.08.2024 um 14:11 schrieb Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> On 2024-08-27 13:06, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey --output=output.zip signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias --rsa-aes -encryption --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
>>> There's a missing `--` in front of `signing-keystore` - that's causing the args error:
>>>> Error: Unable to parse the input: [--keystore=android_upload.keystore, --alias=sehenkey, --output=output.zip, signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore, --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias, --rsa-aes, -encryption, --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem]
>>>> java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Invalid argument: signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore
>>> 
>>> Warmest Regards,
>>> 
>>> Mark.
>> 
>> thank you, but that was not it.
>> 
>> Here is what Matthias got with the two --
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey --output=output.zip --signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias --rsa-aes-encryption --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
> java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey --output=output.zip --signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore --signing-key-alias=sehenkey --rsa-aes-encryption --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
>> Enter password for store 'android_upload.keystore':
>> Enter password for key 'sehenkey':
>> Error: Unable to export or encrypt the private key
>> java.security.spec.InvalidKeySpecException: java.security.InvalidKeyException: Unable to decode key
>> at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAKeyFactory.engineGeneratePublic(RSAKeyFactory.java:241)
>> at java.base/java.security.KeyFactory.generatePublic(KeyFactory.java:351)
>> at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.readPublicKey(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:309)
>> at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.encryptPrivateKeyWithCkmRsaAesKeyWrapEncryption(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:283)
>> at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.run(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:213)
>> at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.main(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:165)
>> Caused by: java.security.InvalidKeyException: Unable to decode key
>> at java.base/sun.security.x509.X509Key.decode(X509Key.java:368)
>> at java.base/sun.security.x509.X509Key.decode(X509Key.java:374)
>> at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAPublicKeyImpl.<init>(RSAPublicKeyImpl.java:148)
>> at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAPublicKeyImpl.newKey(RSAPublicKeyImpl.java:80)
>> at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAKeyFactory.generatePublic(RSAKeyFactory.java:324)
>> at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAKeyFactory.engineGeneratePublic(RSAKeyFactory.java:237)
>> ... 5 more
>> Caused by: java.io.IOException: DerValue.getOID, not an OID 2
>> at java.base/sun.security.util.DerValue.getOID(DerValue.java:552)
>> at java.base/sun.security.util.DerInputStream.getOID(DerInputStream.java:165)
>> at java.base/sun.security.x509.AlgorithmId.parse(AlgorithmId.java:398)
>> at java.base/sun.security.x509.X509Key.decode(X509Key.java:361)
>> ... 10 more
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> :-(
>> 
>> Any ideas?
>> 
>> 
>> Best
>> 
>> Klaus
>> --
>> Klaus Major
>> https://www.major-k.de
>> https://www.major-k.de/bass
>> klaus at major-k.de
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From merakosp at gmail.com  Wed Aug 28 03:02:28 2024
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2024 10:02:28 +0300
Subject: Still problems with creating the neccessary file for keystore
 reset (Lengthy mail)
In-Reply-To: <CB04C1D0-558D-4A36-98FA-9795D299301B@major-k.de>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <F94EB80A-150C-4F77-83DB-12816D167BCF@major-k.de>
 <5e55c3d97ffc70543f380c54a88ae648@livecode.com>
 <C837AA3F-D425-40AF-8714-32368AAF71EC@major-k.de>
 <CED371B6-D59B-4E39-8B73-AE1D05FB2E5B@major-k.de>
 <CB04C1D0-558D-4A36-98FA-9795D299301B@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq-8+-H8ucfzpHxNUmb9zcarjVwRJvhUXPGo+xMckJg5kA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Klaus,

I vaguelly remember I had a similar problem in the past. After searching in
stackoverflow, it was suggested to use the OpenJDK version of Java, rather
than the Oracle's one.

I had used version 20.0.1. I still have the .tar file I downloaded back
then, it is named "openjdk-20.0.1_macos-x64_bin.tar" - and I think it is
this one:

https://download.java.net/java/GA/jdk20.0.1/b4887098932d415489976708ad6d1a4b/9/GPL/openjdk-20.0.1_macos-x64_bin.tar.gz

So it might be worth giving it a try.

Kind regards,
Panos
--

On Wed, 28 Aug 2024 at 09:38, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi friends,
>
> I really need your help, please, deadline is saturday! :-/
>
> If someone who knows (at least a bit of) JAVA, could try this at home
> see all my steps below, please send me a mail and I will send you the
> "pepk.jar" file. Not sure if I can post it openly on my server.
>
> Many, many thanks in advance!
>
>
> Desparately
>
> Klaus
>
> > Am 27.08.2024 um 21:52 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> >
> > Correction in the command:
> > --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias
> > needs to be :
> > --signing-key-alias=sehenkey
> >
> > But same errors. :-/
> >
> >> Am 27.08.2024 um 21:19 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> >>
> >> Hi Mark,
> >>
> >>> Am 27.08.2024 um 14:11 schrieb Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> >>>
> >>> On 2024-08-27 13:06, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
> >>>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore
> --alias=sehenkey --output=output.zip
> signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore
> --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias --rsa-aes -encryption
> --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
> >>> There's a missing `--` in front of `signing-keystore` - that's causing
> the args error:
> >>>> Error: Unable to parse the input:
> [--keystore=android_upload.keystore, --alias=sehenkey, --output=output.zip,
> signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore,
> --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias, --rsa-aes, -encryption,
> --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem]
> >>>> java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Invalid argument:
> signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore
> >>>
> >>> Warmest Regards,
> >>>
> >>> Mark.
> >>
> >> thank you, but that was not it.
> >>
> >> Here is what Matthias got with the two --
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey
> --output=output.zip --signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore
> --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias --rsa-aes-encryption
> --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
> > java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey
> --output=output.zip --signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore
> --signing-key-alias=sehenkey --rsa-aes-encryption
> --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
> >> Enter password for store 'android_upload.keystore':
> >> Enter password for key 'sehenkey':
> >> Error: Unable to export or encrypt the private key
> >> java.security.spec.InvalidKeySpecException:
> java.security.InvalidKeyException: Unable to decode key
> >> at
> java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAKeyFactory.engineGeneratePublic(RSAKeyFactory.java:241)
> >> at
> java.base/java.security.KeyFactory.generatePublic(KeyFactory.java:351)
> >> at
> com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.readPublicKey(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:309)
> >> at
> com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.encryptPrivateKeyWithCkmRsaAesKeyWrapEncryption(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:283)
> >> at
> com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.run(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:213)
> >> at
> com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.main(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:165)
> >> Caused by: java.security.InvalidKeyException: Unable to decode key
> >> at java.base/sun.security.x509.X509Key.decode(X509Key.java:368)
> >> at java.base/sun.security.x509.X509Key.decode(X509Key.java:374)
> >> at
> java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAPublicKeyImpl.<init>(RSAPublicKeyImpl.java:148)
> >> at
> java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAPublicKeyImpl.newKey(RSAPublicKeyImpl.java:80)
> >> at
> java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAKeyFactory.generatePublic(RSAKeyFactory.java:324)
> >> at
> java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAKeyFactory.engineGeneratePublic(RSAKeyFactory.java:237)
> >> ... 5 more
> >> Caused by: java.io.IOException: DerValue.getOID, not an OID 2
> >> at java.base/sun.security.util.DerValue.getOID(DerValue.java:552)
> >> at
> java.base/sun.security.util.DerInputStream.getOID(DerInputStream.java:165)
> >> at java.base/sun.security.x509.AlgorithmId.parse(AlgorithmId.java:398)
> >> at java.base/sun.security.x509.X509Key.decode(X509Key.java:361)
> >> ... 10 more
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> :-(
> >>
> >> Any ideas?
> >>
> >>
> >> Best
> >>
> >> Klaus
> >> --
> >> Klaus Major
> >> https://www.major-k.de
> >> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> >> klaus at major-k.de
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> > --
> > Klaus Major
> > https://www.major-k.de
> > https://www.major-k.de/bass
> > klaus at major-k.de
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From merakosp at gmail.com  Wed Aug 28 03:17:19 2024
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2024 10:17:19 +0300
Subject: Still problems with creating the neccessary file for keystore
 reset (Lengthy mail)
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq-8+-H8ucfzpHxNUmb9zcarjVwRJvhUXPGo+xMckJg5kA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <F94EB80A-150C-4F77-83DB-12816D167BCF@major-k.de>
 <5e55c3d97ffc70543f380c54a88ae648@livecode.com>
 <C837AA3F-D425-40AF-8714-32368AAF71EC@major-k.de>
 <CED371B6-D59B-4E39-8B73-AE1D05FB2E5B@major-k.de>
 <CB04C1D0-558D-4A36-98FA-9795D299301B@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq-8+-H8ucfzpHxNUmb9zcarjVwRJvhUXPGo+xMckJg5kA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq_=KRLyCEPt5cy9mAwurEcD5wUxjPrXTamZoNzLjCO+Dg@mail.gmail.com>

Also, in the screenshot you attached, it looks like the arguments
"signing-keystore" and "keystore" expect a different value.

The "keystore" looks like it should be the "android_upload.keystore" you
created and used to sign the app in LiveCode. I am not sure what is the
"signing-keystore" - were you asked to create one?

Same for the "signing-key-alias" - it looks like it is expected to be
different for the "alias" (the latter should be "sehenkey")

I had a look in the terminal command I had issued back then, and it did not
include these 2 arguments ("signing-key-alias" and "signing-keystore") - it
was just:

java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey
--output=output.zip  --rsa-aes-encryption
--encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem

So it might be worth giving this a try as well, again with openjdk 20.0.1

Kind regards,
Panos


On Wed, 28 Aug 2024 at 10:02, panagiotis merakos <merakosp at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello Klaus,
>
> I vaguelly remember I had a similar problem in the past. After searching
> in stackoverflow, it was suggested to use the OpenJDK version of Java,
> rather than the Oracle's one.
>
> I had used version 20.0.1. I still have the .tar file I downloaded back
> then, it is named "openjdk-20.0.1_macos-x64_bin.tar" - and I think it is
> this one:
>
>
> https://download.java.net/java/GA/jdk20.0.1/b4887098932d415489976708ad6d1a4b/9/GPL/openjdk-20.0.1_macos-x64_bin.tar.gz
>
> So it might be worth giving it a try.
>
> Kind regards,
> Panos
> --
>
> On Wed, 28 Aug 2024 at 09:38, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi friends,
>>
>> I really need your help, please, deadline is saturday! :-/
>>
>> If someone who knows (at least a bit of) JAVA, could try this at home
>> see all my steps below, please send me a mail and I will send you the
>> "pepk.jar" file. Not sure if I can post it openly on my server.
>>
>> Many, many thanks in advance!
>>
>>
>> Desparately
>>
>> Klaus
>>
>> > Am 27.08.2024 um 21:52 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> >
>> > Correction in the command:
>> > --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias
>> > needs to be :
>> > --signing-key-alias=sehenkey
>> >
>> > But same errors. :-/
>> >
>> >> Am 27.08.2024 um 21:19 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> >>
>> >> Hi Mark,
>> >>
>> >>> Am 27.08.2024 um 14:11 schrieb Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> >>>
>> >>> On 2024-08-27 13:06, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>> >>>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>>> java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore
>> --alias=sehenkey --output=output.zip
>> signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore
>> --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias --rsa-aes -encryption
>> --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
>> >>> There's a missing `--` in front of `signing-keystore` - that's
>> causing the args error:
>> >>>> Error: Unable to parse the input:
>> [--keystore=android_upload.keystore, --alias=sehenkey, --output=output.zip,
>> signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore,
>> --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias, --rsa-aes, -encryption,
>> --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem]
>> >>>> java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Invalid argument:
>> signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore
>> >>>
>> >>> Warmest Regards,
>> >>>
>> >>> Mark.
>> >>
>> >> thank you, but that was not it.
>> >>
>> >> Here is what Matthias got with the two --
>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey
>> --output=output.zip --signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore
>> --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias --rsa-aes-encryption
>> --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
>> > java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey
>> --output=output.zip --signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore
>> --signing-key-alias=sehenkey --rsa-aes-encryption
>> --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
>> >> Enter password for store 'android_upload.keystore':
>> >> Enter password for key 'sehenkey':
>> >> Error: Unable to export or encrypt the private key
>> >> java.security.spec.InvalidKeySpecException:
>> java.security.InvalidKeyException: Unable to decode key
>> >> at
>> java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAKeyFactory.engineGeneratePublic(RSAKeyFactory.java:241)
>> >> at
>> java.base/java.security.KeyFactory.generatePublic(KeyFactory.java:351)
>> >> at
>> com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.readPublicKey(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:309)
>> >> at
>> com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.encryptPrivateKeyWithCkmRsaAesKeyWrapEncryption(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:283)
>> >> at
>> com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.run(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:213)
>> >> at
>> com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.main(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:165)
>> >> Caused by: java.security.InvalidKeyException: Unable to decode key
>> >> at java.base/sun.security.x509.X509Key.decode(X509Key.java:368)
>> >> at java.base/sun.security.x509.X509Key.decode(X509Key.java:374)
>> >> at
>> java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAPublicKeyImpl.<init>(RSAPublicKeyImpl.java:148)
>> >> at
>> java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAPublicKeyImpl.newKey(RSAPublicKeyImpl.java:80)
>> >> at
>> java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAKeyFactory.generatePublic(RSAKeyFactory.java:324)
>> >> at
>> java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAKeyFactory.engineGeneratePublic(RSAKeyFactory.java:237)
>> >> ... 5 more
>> >> Caused by: java.io.IOException: DerValue.getOID, not an OID 2
>> >> at java.base/sun.security.util.DerValue.getOID(DerValue.java:552)
>> >> at
>> java.base/sun.security.util.DerInputStream.getOID(DerInputStream.java:165)
>> >> at java.base/sun.security.x509.AlgorithmId.parse(AlgorithmId.java:398)
>> >> at java.base/sun.security.x509.X509Key.decode(X509Key.java:361)
>> >> ... 10 more
>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> :-(
>> >>
>> >> Any ideas?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Best
>> >>
>> >> Klaus
>> >> --
>> >> Klaus Major
>> >> https://www.major-k.de
>> >> https://www.major-k.de/bass
>> >> klaus at major-k.de
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> use-livecode mailing list
>> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> >
>> > --
>> > Klaus Major
>> > https://www.major-k.de
>> > https://www.major-k.de/bass
>> > klaus at major-k.de
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > use-livecode mailing list
>> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>> --
>> Klaus Major
>> https://www.major-k.de
>> https://www.major-k.de/bass
>> klaus at major-k.de
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>

From klaus at major-k.de  Wed Aug 28 03:37:54 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2024 09:37:54 +0200
Subject: Still problems with creating the neccessary file for keystore
 reset (Lengthy mail)
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq_=KRLyCEPt5cy9mAwurEcD5wUxjPrXTamZoNzLjCO+Dg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <F94EB80A-150C-4F77-83DB-12816D167BCF@major-k.de>
 <5e55c3d97ffc70543f380c54a88ae648@livecode.com>
 <C837AA3F-D425-40AF-8714-32368AAF71EC@major-k.de>
 <CED371B6-D59B-4E39-8B73-AE1D05FB2E5B@major-k.de>
 <CB04C1D0-558D-4A36-98FA-9795D299301B@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq-8+-H8ucfzpHxNUmb9zcarjVwRJvhUXPGo+xMckJg5kA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+JfEq_=KRLyCEPt5cy9mAwurEcD5wUxjPrXTamZoNzLjCO+Dg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0FA9E468-37DE-486F-A4E3-144A6EB05FDF@major-k.de>

Hi Panos,

> Am 28.08.2024 um 09:17 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Also, in the screenshot you attached, it looks like the arguments
> "signing-keystore" and "keystore" expect a different value.
> 
> The "keystore" looks like it should be the "android_upload.keystore" you
> created and used to sign the app in LiveCode. I am not sure what is the
> "signing-keystore" - were you asked to create one?
> 
> Same for the "signing-key-alias" - it looks like it is expected to be
> different for the "alias" (the latter should be "sehenkey")
> 
> I had a look in the terminal command I had issued back then, and it did not
> include these 2 arguments ("signing-key-alias" and "signing-keystore") - it
> was just:
> 
> java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey
> --output=output.zip  --rsa-aes-encryption
> --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
> 
> So it might be worth giving this a try as well, again with openjdk 20.0.1

sounds promising! :-)
Thank you, we will try this.

> Kind regards,
> Panos

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From jbv at souslelogo.com  Wed Aug 28 04:20:51 2024
From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2024 04:20:51 -0400
Subject: Strange...
Message-ID: <bc05254ac263532537f6db42cdf85cfe@souslelogo.com>

("936,474" is within "777,50,1424,10000") -> true

("936,474" is within "777,50,1424,100000") -> false

LC 9.6.9 on Mac OSX 10.15


From curry at pair.com  Wed Aug 28 05:15:50 2024
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2024 05:15:50 -0400
Subject: Still problems with creating the neccessary file for keystore
 reset (Lengthy mail)
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq-8+-H8ucfzpHxNUmb9zcarjVwRJvhUXPGo+xMckJg5kA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+JfEq-8+-H8ucfzpHxNUmb9zcarjVwRJvhUXPGo+xMckJg5kA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <80323263-6cdc-4708-9b9e-df03438be107@pair.com>

Klaus:

 > I really need your help, please, deadline is saturday! :-/

It has been almost a couple of years since last Android project;
my current laptop is not set up for it yet. But ...

Panos:

 > I vaguely remember I had a similar problem in the past. After
 > searching in stackoverflow, it was suggested to use the OpenJDK
 > version of Java, rather than the Oracle's one.

I do clearly remember that WHICH Java is absolutely crucial -
including the version number! NOT the newest version, I think.

Beyond that I only 'vaguely remember' like Panos,
but the right combination just works, otherwise futile.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
"PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
https://livecodeconsulting.com/


From klaus at major-k.de  Wed Aug 28 06:17:17 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2024 12:17:17 +0200
Subject: Still problems with creating the neccessary file for keystore
 reset (Lengthy mail)
In-Reply-To: <0FA9E468-37DE-486F-A4E3-144A6EB05FDF@major-k.de>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <F94EB80A-150C-4F77-83DB-12816D167BCF@major-k.de>
 <5e55c3d97ffc70543f380c54a88ae648@livecode.com>
 <C837AA3F-D425-40AF-8714-32368AAF71EC@major-k.de>
 <CED371B6-D59B-4E39-8B73-AE1D05FB2E5B@major-k.de>
 <CB04C1D0-558D-4A36-98FA-9795D299301B@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq-8+-H8ucfzpHxNUmb9zcarjVwRJvhUXPGo+xMckJg5kA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+JfEq_=KRLyCEPt5cy9mAwurEcD5wUxjPrXTamZoNzLjCO+Dg@mail.gmail.com>
 <0FA9E468-37DE-486F-A4E3-144A6EB05FDF@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <02C1524C-DDFE-495F-9804-BF4227444137@major-k.de>

Hi Panos,

I had created a new keystore and PEM file with the shell commands that Gooogle support supplied.
Still no joy...
----------------------------------------------------
% java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload2.jks --alias=upload --output=output.zip  --rsa-aes-encryption --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate2.pem
Enter password for store 'android_upload2.jks':
Enter password for key 'upload':
Error: Unable to export or encrypt the private key
java.security.UnrecoverableKeyException: Get Key failed: Given final block not properly padded. Such issues can arise if a bad key is used during decryption.
	at java.base/sun.security.pkcs12.PKCS12KeyStore.engineGetKey(PKCS12KeyStore.java:454)
	at java.base/sun.security.util.KeyStoreDelegator.engineGetKey(KeyStoreDelegator.java:93)
	at java.base/java.security.KeyStore.getKey(KeyStore.java:1075)
	at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.KeystoreHelper.extractPrivateKey(KeystoreHelper.java:63)
	at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.KeystoreHelper.getPrivateKey(KeystoreHelper.java:35)
	at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.run(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:209)
	at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.main(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:165)
Caused by: javax.crypto.BadPaddingException: Given final block not properly padded. Such issues can arise if a bad key is used during decryption.
	at java.base/com.sun.crypto.provider.CipherCore.unpad(CipherCore.java:861)
	at java.base/com.sun.crypto.provider.CipherCore.fillOutputBuffer(CipherCore.java:941)
	at java.base/com.sun.crypto.provider.CipherCore.doFinal(CipherCore.java:734)
	at java.base/com.sun.crypto.provider.PBES2Core.engineDoFinal(PBES2Core.java:310)
	at java.base/javax.crypto.Cipher.doFinal(Cipher.java:2244)
	at java.base/sun.security.pkcs12.PKCS12KeyStore.lambda$engineGetKey$0(PKCS12KeyStore.java:370)
	at java.base/sun.security.pkcs12.PKCS12KeyStore$RetryWithZero.run(PKCS12KeyStore.java:257)
	at java.base/sun.security.pkcs12.PKCS12KeyStore.engineGetKey(PKCS12KeyStore.java:361)
	... 6 more
-------------------------------------------------------

I will also write a mail to Google support now, maybe they can explain what's going wrong.
The tone of their last mails however made me feel that they only take actual JAVA developers seriously. :-/

> Am 28.08.2024 um 09:37 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi Panos,
> 
>> Am 28.08.2024 um 09:17 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Also, in the screenshot you attached, it looks like the arguments
>> "signing-keystore" and "keystore" expect a different value.
>> 
>> The "keystore" looks like it should be the "android_upload.keystore" you
>> created and used to sign the app in LiveCode. I am not sure what is the
>> "signing-keystore" - were you asked to create one?
>> 
>> Same for the "signing-key-alias" - it looks like it is expected to be
>> different for the "alias" (the latter should be "sehenkey")
>> 
>> I had a look in the terminal command I had issued back then, and it did not
>> include these 2 arguments ("signing-key-alias" and "signing-keystore") - it
>> was just:
>> 
>> java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey
>> --output=output.zip  --rsa-aes-encryption
>> --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
>> 
>> So it might be worth giving this a try as well, again with openjdk 20.0.1
> 
> sounds promising! :-)
> Thank you, we will try this.
> 
>> Kind regards,
>> Panos

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From merakosp at gmail.com  Wed Aug 28 06:58:16 2024
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2024 13:58:16 +0300
Subject: Still problems with creating the neccessary file for keystore
 reset (Lengthy mail)
In-Reply-To: <02C1524C-DDFE-495F-9804-BF4227444137@major-k.de>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <F94EB80A-150C-4F77-83DB-12816D167BCF@major-k.de>
 <5e55c3d97ffc70543f380c54a88ae648@livecode.com>
 <C837AA3F-D425-40AF-8714-32368AAF71EC@major-k.de>
 <CED371B6-D59B-4E39-8B73-AE1D05FB2E5B@major-k.de>
 <CB04C1D0-558D-4A36-98FA-9795D299301B@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq-8+-H8ucfzpHxNUmb9zcarjVwRJvhUXPGo+xMckJg5kA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+JfEq_=KRLyCEPt5cy9mAwurEcD5wUxjPrXTamZoNzLjCO+Dg@mail.gmail.com>
 <0FA9E468-37DE-486F-A4E3-144A6EB05FDF@major-k.de>
 <02C1524C-DDFE-495F-9804-BF4227444137@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq9M8dLMjHF53iAtz8Q8pLN3PZD9vzKj2_9LJrhojaSKrA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Klaus,

Hmm this looks like a different error. I also noticed that the new keystore
you created has extension ".jks" and not ".keystore".

Could you try with your old .keystore and .pem file, i.e. something like
this:

java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey
--output=output.zip  --rsa-aes-encryption
--encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem

Kind regards,
Panos
--

On Wed, 28 Aug 2024 at 13:18, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Panos,
>
> I had created a new keystore and PEM file with the shell commands that
> Gooogle support supplied.
> Still no joy...
> ----------------------------------------------------
> % java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload2.jks --alias=upload
> --output=output.zip  --rsa-aes-encryption
> --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate2.pem
> Enter password for store 'android_upload2.jks':
> Enter password for key 'upload':
> Error: Unable to export or encrypt the private key
> java.security.UnrecoverableKeyException: Get Key failed: Given final block
> not properly padded. Such issues can arise if a bad key is used during
> decryption.
>         at
> java.base/sun.security.pkcs12.PKCS12KeyStore.engineGetKey(PKCS12KeyStore.java:454)
>         at
> java.base/sun.security.util.KeyStoreDelegator.engineGetKey(KeyStoreDelegator.java:93)
>         at java.base/java.security.KeyStore.getKey(KeyStore.java:1075)
>         at
> com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.KeystoreHelper.extractPrivateKey(KeystoreHelper.java:63)
>         at
> com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.KeystoreHelper.getPrivateKey(KeystoreHelper.java:35)
>         at
> com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.run(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:209)
>         at
> com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.main(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:165)
> Caused by: javax.crypto.BadPaddingException: Given final block not
> properly padded. Such issues can arise if a bad key is used during
> decryption.
>         at
> java.base/com.sun.crypto.provider.CipherCore.unpad(CipherCore.java:861)
>         at
> java.base/com.sun.crypto.provider.CipherCore.fillOutputBuffer(CipherCore.java:941)
>         at
> java.base/com.sun.crypto.provider.CipherCore.doFinal(CipherCore.java:734)
>         at
> java.base/com.sun.crypto.provider.PBES2Core.engineDoFinal(PBES2Core.java:310)
>         at java.base/javax.crypto.Cipher.doFinal(Cipher.java:2244)
>         at
> java.base/sun.security.pkcs12.PKCS12KeyStore.lambda$engineGetKey$0(PKCS12KeyStore.java:370)
>         at
> java.base/sun.security.pkcs12.PKCS12KeyStore$RetryWithZero.run(PKCS12KeyStore.java:257)
>         at
> java.base/sun.security.pkcs12.PKCS12KeyStore.engineGetKey(PKCS12KeyStore.java:361)
>         ... 6 more
> -------------------------------------------------------
>
> I will also write a mail to Google support now, maybe they can explain
> what's going wrong.
> The tone of their last mails however made me feel that they only take
> actual JAVA developers seriously. :-/
>
> > Am 28.08.2024 um 09:37 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> >
> > Hi Panos,
> >
> >> Am 28.08.2024 um 09:17 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> >>
> >> Also, in the screenshot you attached, it looks like the arguments
> >> "signing-keystore" and "keystore" expect a different value.
> >>
> >> The "keystore" looks like it should be the "android_upload.keystore" you
> >> created and used to sign the app in LiveCode. I am not sure what is the
> >> "signing-keystore" - were you asked to create one?
> >>
> >> Same for the "signing-key-alias" - it looks like it is expected to be
> >> different for the "alias" (the latter should be "sehenkey")
> >>
> >> I had a look in the terminal command I had issued back then, and it did
> not
> >> include these 2 arguments ("signing-key-alias" and "signing-keystore")
> - it
> >> was just:
> >>
> >> java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey
> >> --output=output.zip  --rsa-aes-encryption
> >> --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
> >>
> >> So it might be worth giving this a try as well, again with openjdk
> 20.0.1
> >
> > sounds promising! :-)
> > Thank you, we will try this.
> >
> >> Kind regards,
> >> Panos
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
>
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From klaus at major-k.de  Wed Aug 28 07:05:42 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2024 13:05:42 +0200
Subject: Still problems with creating the neccessary file for keystore
 reset (Lengthy mail)
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq9M8dLMjHF53iAtz8Q8pLN3PZD9vzKj2_9LJrhojaSKrA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <F94EB80A-150C-4F77-83DB-12816D167BCF@major-k.de>
 <5e55c3d97ffc70543f380c54a88ae648@livecode.com>
 <C837AA3F-D425-40AF-8714-32368AAF71EC@major-k.de>
 <CED371B6-D59B-4E39-8B73-AE1D05FB2E5B@major-k.de>
 <CB04C1D0-558D-4A36-98FA-9795D299301B@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq-8+-H8ucfzpHxNUmb9zcarjVwRJvhUXPGo+xMckJg5kA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+JfEq_=KRLyCEPt5cy9mAwurEcD5wUxjPrXTamZoNzLjCO+Dg@mail.gmail.com>
 <0FA9E468-37DE-486F-A4E3-144A6EB05FDF@major-k.de>
 <02C1524C-DDFE-495F-9804-BF4227444137@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq9M8dLMjHF53iAtz8Q8pLN3PZD9vzKj2_9LJrhojaSKrA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3B60CC15-FB52-4DA8-B262-DDF24B5033BF@major-k.de>

Hi Panos,

still no joy...
...
java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey --output=output.zip  --rsa-aes-encryption --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
Enter password for key 'sehenkey':
Error: Unable to export or encrypt the private key
java.security.spec.InvalidKeySpecException: java.security.InvalidKeyException: IOException: DerValue.getOID, not an OID 2
	at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAKeyFactory.engineGeneratePublic(RSAKeyFactory.java:241)
	at java.base/java.security.KeyFactory.generatePublic(KeyFactory.java:351)
	at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.readPublicKey(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:309)
	at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.encryptPrivateKeyWithCkmRsaAesKeyWrapEncryption(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:283)
	at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.run(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:213)
	at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.main(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:165)
Caused by: java.security.InvalidKeyException: IOException: DerValue.getOID, not an OID 2
	at java.base/sun.security.x509.X509Key.decode(X509Key.java:375)
	at java.base/sun.security.x509.X509Key.decode(X509Key.java:380)
	at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAPublicKeyImpl.<init>(RSAPublicKeyImpl.java:146)
	at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAPublicKeyImpl.newKey(RSAPublicKeyImpl.java:78)
	at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAKeyFactory.generatePublic(RSAKeyFactory.java:324)
	at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAKeyFactory.engineGeneratePublic(RSAKeyFactory.java:237)
	... 5 more

> Am 28.08.2024 um 12:58 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hello Klaus,
> 
> Hmm this looks like a different error. I also noticed that the new keystore
> you created has extension ".jks" and not ".keystore".

Yes, for testing I had created a new Keystore and PEM file with these names.

> Could you try with your old .keystore and .pem file, i.e. something like
> this:
> 
> java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey
> --output=output.zip  --rsa-aes-encryption
> --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
> 
> Kind regards,
> Panos

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From brian at milby7.com  Wed Aug 28 08:17:41 2024
From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2024 08:17:41 -0400
Subject: Strange...
In-Reply-To: <bc05254ac263532537f6db42cdf85cfe@souslelogo.com>
References: <bc05254ac263532537f6db42cdf85cfe@souslelogo.com>
Message-ID: <55F5ECFF-B42B-4839-BF63-290BDC3C16CE@milby7.com>

Looks like ~32k is the max value allowed for a coordinate value.

Brian Milby
brian at milby7.com

> On Aug 28, 2024, at 4:22 AM, jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> ("936,474" is within "777,50,1424,10000") -> true
> 
> ("936,474" is within "777,50,1424,100000") -> false
> 
> LC 9.6.9 on Mac OSX 10.15
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Wed Aug 28 11:17:26 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2024 15:17:26 +0000
Subject: Strange...
In-Reply-To: <55F5ECFF-B42B-4839-BF63-290BDC3C16CE@milby7.com>
References: <bc05254ac263532537f6db42cdf85cfe@souslelogo.com>
 <55F5ECFF-B42B-4839-BF63-290BDC3C16CE@milby7.com>
Message-ID: <84FD4978-A4C6-4218-8D45-49C863D1E11C@iotecdigital.com>

Easy enough to test. 

put ("936,474" is within "777,50,1424,32767”) —> true
put ("936,474" is within "777,50,1424,32768”) —> false

Bob S


> On Aug 28, 2024, at 5:17 AM, Brian Milby via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Looks like ~32k is the max value allowed for a coordinate value.
> 
> Brian Milby
> brian at milby7.com
> 
>> On Aug 28, 2024, at 4:22 AM, jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> ("936,474" is within "777,50,1424,10000") -> true
>> 
>> ("936,474" is within "777,50,1424,100000") -> false
>> 
>> LC 9.6.9 on Mac OSX 10.15
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From brian at milby7.com  Wed Aug 28 13:07:10 2024
From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2024 13:07:10 -0400
Subject: Strange...
In-Reply-To: <84FD4978-A4C6-4218-8D45-49C863D1E11C@iotecdigital.com>
References: <84FD4978-A4C6-4218-8D45-49C863D1E11C@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <C93DD07F-79BE-4044-A23D-777314CAC4D9@milby7.com>

Exactly (that is essentially what I did)

The actual full rect is:
(-32768,-32768,32767,32767)

Brian Milby
brian at milby7.com

> On Aug 28, 2024, at 11:19 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Easy enough to test.
> 
> put ("936,474" is within "777,50,1424,32767”) —> true
> put ("936,474" is within "777,50,1424,32768”) —> false
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Aug 28, 2024, at 5:17 AM, Brian Milby via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Looks like ~32k is the max value allowed for a coordinate value.
>> 
>> Brian Milby
>> brian at milby7.com
>> 
>>>> On Aug 28, 2024, at 4:22 AM, jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ("936,474" is within "777,50,1424,10000") -> true
>>> 
>>> ("936,474" is within "777,50,1424,100000") -> false
>>> 
>>> LC 9.6.9 on Mac OSX 10.15
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From klaus at major-k.de  Wed Aug 28 13:52:02 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2024 19:52:02 +0200
Subject: Strange...
In-Reply-To: <C93DD07F-79BE-4044-A23D-777314CAC4D9@milby7.com>
References: <84FD4978-A4C6-4218-8D45-49C863D1E11C@iotecdigital.com>
 <C93DD07F-79BE-4044-A23D-777314CAC4D9@milby7.com>
Message-ID: <DA94542E-4296-42D8-A551-CCD8DCFE43CF@major-k.de>



> Am 28.08.2024 um 19:07 schrieb Brian Milby via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Exactly (that is essentially what I did)
> 
> The actual full rect is:
> (-32768,-32768,32767,32767)

should suffice for a simple addressbook app. :-)

> Brian Milby
> brian at milby7.com
> 
>> On Aug 28, 2024, at 11:19 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> Easy enough to test.
>> put ("936,474" is within "777,50,1424,32767”) —> true
>> put ("936,474" is within "777,50,1424,32768”) —> false
>> Bob S
>>> On Aug 28, 2024, at 5:17 AM, Brian Milby via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> Looks like ~32k is the max value allowed for a coordinate value.
>>> Brian Milby
>>> brian at milby7.com
>>> 
>>>>> On Aug 28, 2024, at 4:22 AM, jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> ("936,474" is within "777,50,1424,10000") -> true
>>>> ("936,474" is within "777,50,1424,100000") -> false
>>>> LC 9.6.9 on Mac OSX 10.15

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From jbv at souslelogo.com  Wed Aug 28 14:48:38 2024
From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2024 14:48:38 -0400
Subject: Strange...
In-Reply-To: <DA94542E-4296-42D8-A551-CCD8DCFE43CF@major-k.de>
References: <84FD4978-A4C6-4218-8D45-49C863D1E11C@iotecdigital.com>
 <C93DD07F-79BE-4044-A23D-777314CAC4D9@milby7.com>
 <DA94542E-4296-42D8-A551-CCD8DCFE43CF@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <961a3030883a163bc46b8526bcc5f079@souslelogo.com>

Le 2024-08-28 13:52, Klaus major-k via use-livecode a crit :
> 
> should suffice for a simple addressbook app. :-)
> 

yep, but not for processing any kind of raw data...


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Wed Aug 28 18:06:37 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2024 22:06:37 +0000
Subject: Strange...
In-Reply-To: <961a3030883a163bc46b8526bcc5f079@souslelogo.com>
References: <84FD4978-A4C6-4218-8D45-49C863D1E11C@iotecdigital.com>
 <C93DD07F-79BE-4044-A23D-777314CAC4D9@milby7.com>
 <DA94542E-4296-42D8-A551-CCD8DCFE43CF@major-k.de>
 <961a3030883a163bc46b8526bcc5f079@souslelogo.com>
Message-ID: <812482E3-12CB-45AB-850B-D60E51490186@iotecdigital.com>

put "777,50,1424,10000" into tCoords
put item 1 of tCoords > -32768 AND \
item 2 of tCoords > -32768 AND \
item 3 of tCoords < 32767 AND \
item 4 of tCoords < 32767 AND \
"936,474" is within tCoords --> true

put "777,50,1424,100000" into tCoords
put item 1 of tCoords > -32768 AND \
item 2 of tCoords > -32768 AND \
item 3 of tCoords < 32767 AND \
item 4 of tCoords < 32767 AND \
"936,474" is within tCoords --> false

Bob S


> On Aug 28, 2024, at 11:48 AM, jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Le 2024-08-28 13:52, Klaus major-k via use-livecode a écrit :
>> should suffice for a simple addressbook app. :-)
> 
> yep, but not for processing any kind of raw data...
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Aug 29 05:15:42 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2024 11:15:42 +0200
Subject: Android API 34 and Android keystore:  SOLVED
Message-ID: <E50A1ADA-1672-4A0B-91FC-7F35E464D9E8@major-k.de>

Hi friends,

I am glad to tell you that we could finally solve this problem.
Right in time for the deadline on saturday, phew...

We had to download and use an "encryption_public_key.pem"
file from google in the JAVA command for the last param!
Sometimes one does not see the forest for the trees...

I want to thank the community and especially Panos, Mark W. 
and Matthias Rebbe for their wonderful and really helpful assistance.
I love you guys! :-)

But Googles support defintitively sucks and had caused more 
irritation than giving helpful hints.

Again thanks to all, have a wonderful weekend!


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Aug 29 12:19:46 2024
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2024 11:19:46 -0500
Subject: Android API 34 and Android keystore:  SOLVED
In-Reply-To: <E50A1ADA-1672-4A0B-91FC-7F35E464D9E8@major-k.de>
References: <E50A1ADA-1672-4A0B-91FC-7F35E464D9E8@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <1919eef90d0.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

Whew! The team is the best. And Matthias is always kind and helpful.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On August 29, 2024 4:18:06 AM Klaus major-k via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi friends,
>
> I am glad to tell you that we could finally solve this problem.
> Right in time for the deadline on saturday, phew...
>
> We had to download and use an "encryption_public_key.pem"
> file from google in the JAVA command for the last param!
> Sometimes one does not see the forest for the trees...
>
> I want to thank the community and especially Panos, Mark W.
> and Matthias Rebbe for their wonderful and really helpful assistance.
> I love you guys! :-)
>
> But Googles support defintitively sucks and had caused more
> irritation than giving helpful hints.
>
> Again thanks to all, have a wonderful weekend!
>
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Thu Aug 29 12:44:56 2024
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2024 12:44:56 -0400
Subject: Android API 34 and Android keystore:  SOLVED
In-Reply-To: <1919eef90d0.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <E50A1ADA-1672-4A0B-91FC-7F35E464D9E8@major-k.de>
 <1919eef90d0.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <000e01dafa32$cb527ae0$61f770a0$@net>

+1

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
Of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2024 12:20 PM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: J. Landman Gay
Subject: Re: Android API 34 and Android keystore: SOLVED

Whew! The team is the best. And Matthias is always kind and helpful.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software |
http://www.hyperactivesw.com On August 29, 2024 4:18:06 AM Klaus major-k via
use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi friends,
>
> I am glad to tell you that we could finally solve this problem.
> Right in time for the deadline on saturday, phew...
>
> We had to download and use an "encryption_public_key.pem"
> file from google in the JAVA command for the last param!
> Sometimes one does not see the forest for the trees...
>
> I want to thank the community and especially Panos, Mark W.
> and Matthias Rebbe for their wonderful and really helpful assistance.
> I love you guys! :-)
>
> But Googles support defintitively sucks and had caused more irritation 
> than giving helpful hints.
>
> Again thanks to all, have a wonderful weekend!
>
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
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From benr_mc at cogapp.com  Fri Aug  2 03:22:00 2024
From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 08:22:00 +0100
Subject: Late arrival to LiveCode Future (and possibly early leaver!)
Message-ID: <48549626-1050-46d4-a581-248870345cf8@cogapp.com>

I've been away, in various senses, and only just read about all this.

I have enormous respect for Kevin and LiveCode.

I've been using the product since it was Metacard, and Revolution (as it was 
then) was an enormous upgrade. The first bug I reported in the quality control 
centre was over 20 years ago (was there another system before then? I don't 
recall anymore). (And indeed the 64th report I made, marked as CONFIRMED but 
still not actioned, that I'd still like, was reported over 20 years ago... ).

I've used it to make tools for myself, a lot; tools for my colleagues a bit; 
tools for clients a bit. Mostly now it's tools for myself, which very rarely 
get built into standalones; but I still maintain a few tools for clients.

As the world developed over the decades, I feared for Kevin's company, 
whatever it was variously called. I felt that they were pursuing an almost 
impossible mission, maintaining and extending an extremely niche language 
across multiple platforms - having to persuade potential clients to buy a 
language before they could try to persuade them to buy a product. I supported 
most or all of the various fundraisers, sometimes with my company's money but 
more often with my own, even for developments I'm not interested in like HTML 
and Xavvi; in solidarity. I'm sorry that the open source experiment didn't 
work out, I'm sorry that the Filemaker idea didn't work out.

I am frankly surprised, and deeply impressed, that they have survived this 
long. It is a tribute to their tenacity and agility.

They have the right to take the company and product in whatever direction they 
think will produce the best result, and I wish them all the best luck in the 
world.

Having said all that:

- Create is not for me.

- I'll keep using Classic while I can

- Please put everything we to need know in text - I can't watch videos*

- Three things I don't yet know:
    - Is Classic changing in any way - e.g. will standalones phone home?
    - Classic supported to 2025 - is that Jan 1 2027, or Dec 31 2027?
    - When Classic goes EOL, will it stop working, or just not receive updates 
for new OS, app store rules etc?
	
Thanks and all the best,

Ben


* doc hawk wrote (01/08/2024):
 > You say the as if expecting someone to view a video to get information 
wasnt an act of Evil . . . :)

- and probably against DDA/ADA/EA


From index at kenjikojima.com  Fri Aug  2 05:59:25 2024
From: index at kenjikojima.com (Kenji Kojima)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 05:59:25 -0400
Subject: Late arrival to LiveCode Future (and possibly early leaver!)
In-Reply-To: <48549626-1050-46d4-a581-248870345cf8@cogapp.com>
References: <48549626-1050-46d4-a581-248870345cf8@cogapp.com>
Message-ID: <52B83FC8-17BB-4AE1-BDE9-C84A39126005@kenjikojima.com>

I agree Ben. 

I've used it to make tools for myself
- Create is not for me.
- I'll keep using Classic while I can
- Please put everything we to need know in text 
- I can't watch videos*

Best,
--
Kenji Kojima / 小島健治
http://www.kenjikojima.com/



> On Aug 2, 2024, at 3:22 AM, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I've been away, in various senses, and only just read about all this.
> 
> I have enormous respect for Kevin and LiveCode.
> 
> I've been using the product since it was Metacard, and Revolution (as it was then) was an enormous upgrade. The first bug I reported in the quality control centre was over 20 years ago (was there another system before then? I don't recall anymore). (And indeed the 64th report I made, marked as CONFIRMED but still not actioned, that I'd still like, was reported over 20 years ago... 🤨).
> 
> I've used it to make tools for myself, a lot; tools for my colleagues a bit; tools for clients a bit. Mostly now it's tools for myself, which very rarely get built into standalones; but I still maintain a few tools for clients.
> 
> As the world developed over the decades, I feared for Kevin's company, whatever it was variously called. I felt that they were pursuing an almost impossible mission, maintaining and extending an extremely niche language across multiple platforms - having to persuade potential clients to buy a language before they could try to persuade them to buy a product. I supported most or all of the various fundraisers, sometimes with my company's money but more often with my own, even for developments I'm not interested in like HTML and Xavvi; in solidarity. I'm sorry that the open source experiment didn't work out, I'm sorry that the Filemaker idea didn't work out.
> 
> I am frankly surprised, and deeply impressed, that they have survived this long. It is a tribute to their tenacity and agility.
> 
> They have the right to take the company and product in whatever direction they think will produce the best result, and I wish them all the best luck in the world.
> 
> Having said all that:
> 
> - Create is not for me.
> 
> - I'll keep using Classic while I can
> 
> - Please put everything we to need know in text - I can't watch videos*
> 
> - Three things I don't yet know:
>   - Is Classic changing in any way - e.g. will standalones phone home?
>   - Classic supported to 2025 - is that Jan 1 2027, or Dec 31 2027?
>   - When Classic goes EOL, will it stop working, or just not receive updates for new OS, app store rules etc?
> 	
> Thanks and all the best,
> 
> Ben
> 
> 
> * doc hawk wrote (01/08/2024):
> > You say the as if expecting someone to view a video to get information wasn’t an act of Evil . . . :)
> 
> - and probably against DDA/ADA/EA
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From curry at pair.com  Fri Aug  2 10:31:16 2024
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 10:31:16 -0400
Subject: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND 2027!
Message-ID: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>


Everyone I know wants to keep using LC Classic for a while.
Most people still want it. Read this list. LC Classic is popular!

Launching LC 10 as DOA or a 'lame duck' makes little sense.
LC 9 and 10 are still heavily in demand under the old terms.

(I'm not against progress; in fact, before Create was announced ...
I knew of at least 3 independent next-gen projects for LiveCode.
Including my own! None would have cost $ millions, but anyway. :)
Make a smoother, friendlier LiveCode transition for best results.)

So, how long can we access the bona fide LC 9 and 10 Classic IDEs?
Given the widespread demand - Through end of 2028? 2029? 2030?
For all those of us who keep existing subscriptions, at least.
And maintain LC 10 platform support for that duration.

(Old licensing terms for app builds created with them, of course.)

Kudos to all those thinking the same thing, and speaking up!

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
"PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
https://livecodeconsulting.com/


From kaveh at rivervalley.io  Fri Aug  2 10:51:14 2024
From: kaveh at rivervalley.io (Kaveh Bazargan)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 15:51:14 +0100
Subject: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND 2027!
In-Reply-To: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>
References: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ2R9pgg_p6Hi4eDiTssm_Pn9DyjCNjJD4iRBjCsor=K0bUDHA@mail.gmail.com>

I've been half following the recent tweets but just don't have the mental
capacity to keep up.

FYI I used HyperCard since it was Beta and no manual!! I really commend
what Kevin and team have done to keep the world's most friendly programming
environment going. I wish I could just pay for LiveCode and use it. I am
guessing that is what Classic is. But perhaps I am just getting too old!

Regards
Kaveh

On Fri, 2 Aug 2024 at 15:32, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>
> Everyone I know wants to keep using LC Classic for a while.
> Most people still want it. Read this list. LC Classic is popular!
>
> Launching LC 10 as DOA or a 'lame duck' makes little sense.
> LC 9 and 10 are still heavily in demand under the old terms.
>
> (I'm not against progress; in fact, before Create was announced ...
> I knew of at least 3 independent next-gen projects for LiveCode.
> Including my own! None would have cost $ millions, but anyway. :)
> Make a smoother, friendlier LiveCode transition for best results.)
>
> So, how long can we access the bona fide LC 9 and 10 Classic IDEs?
> Given the widespread demand - Through end of 2028? 2029? 2030?
> For all those of us who keep existing subscriptions, at least.
> And maintain LC 10 platform support for that duration.
>
> (Old licensing terms for app builds created with them, of course.)
>
> Kudos to all those thinking the same thing, and speaking up!
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Curry Kenworthy
>
> Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
> "PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
> https://livecodeconsulting.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
Kaveh Bazargan PhD
Director
River Valley Technologies <http://rivervalley.io> ● Twitter
<https://twitter.com/rivervalley1000> ● LinkedIn
<https://www.linkedin.com/in/bazargankaveh/> ● ORCID
<https://orcid.org/0000-0002-1414-9098> ● @kaveh1000 at mastodon.social
<https://mastodon.social/@kaveh1000>
*Accelerating the Communication of Research*

*
<https://www.linkedin.com/posts/bazargankaveh_ismte-innovation-award-recipient-kaveh-bazargan-activity-7039348552526921728-XAEB/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop>
 [image:
https://rivervalley.io/gigabyte-wins-the-alpsp-scholarly-publishing-innovation-award-using-river-valleys-publishing-technology/]
<https://rivervalley.io/gigabyte-wins-the-alpsp-scholarly-publishing-innovation-award-using-river-valleys-publishing-technology/>*

From irog at mac.com  Fri Aug  2 10:59:43 2024
From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 07:59:43 -0700
Subject: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND 2027!
In-Reply-To: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>
References: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>
Message-ID: <FBBF2716-8A79-4B3B-8DD8-17A054BF188E@mac.com>

I too am in the "Clasic Is For Me Crowd”

- Been here since Metacard
- Use LC strictly as a hobby
- LC is extremely important to me as a hobby 
- Have created hundreds of tools, utilities, simulations, fun things just for shear enjoyment and mental exercise
- Have frequent internet problems that interfere with cloud computing
- Have participated in every fundraising campagne
- Frequently contributed to Example Stacks including Alien Civilization Detection simulation

I beg you, Kevin, don’t take this away from us

Roger

> On Aug 2, 2024, at 7:31 AM, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> Everyone I know wants to keep using LC Classic for a while.
> Most people still want it. Read this list. LC Classic is popular!
> 
> Launching LC 10 as DOA or a 'lame duck' makes little sense.
> LC 9 and 10 are still heavily in demand under the old terms.
> 
> (I'm not against progress; in fact, before Create was announced ...
> I knew of at least 3 independent next-gen projects for LiveCode.
> Including my own! None would have cost $ millions, but anyway. :)
> Make a smoother, friendlier LiveCode transition for best results.)
> 
> So, how long can we access the bona fide LC 9 and 10 Classic IDEs?
> Given the widespread demand - Through end of 2028? 2029? 2030?
> For all those of us who keep existing subscriptions, at least.
> And maintain LC 10 platform support for that duration.
> 
> (Old licensing terms for app builds created with them, of course.)
> 
> Kudos to all those thinking the same thing, and speaking up!
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Curry Kenworthy
> 
> Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
> "PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
> https://livecodeconsulting.com/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From jbv at souslelogo.com  Fri Aug  2 11:13:05 2024
From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com)
Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2024 11:13:05 -0400
Subject: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND 2027!
In-Reply-To: <FBBF2716-8A79-4B3B-8DD8-17A054BF188E@mac.com>
References: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>
 <FBBF2716-8A79-4B3B-8DD8-17A054BF188E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <900b4b3c1e2f090b6a0c7ac6923b6804@souslelogo.com>

Same here.

I have been into hypertalk since the 1st version of HC.

I have 2 desktop apps for 2 different clients that I maintain, and in 
each one
the part developed with LC Classic is just a front end for sending 
requests to
the server and displaying the incoming data. In both cases 80% of the 
tasks is
done server side with LC on 2 on-rev accounts.
I know for certain that none of my clients will accept to pay for 
per-seats
license.

So I have 2 options so far :
- paying myself for these licenses, which I can't afford
- rewrite the front-end of both apps with html/js and forget about LC.

jbv





From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Aug  2 11:17:42 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 15:17:42 +0000
Subject: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND 2027!
In-Reply-To: <FBBF2716-8A79-4B3B-8DD8-17A054BF188E@mac.com>
References: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>
 <FBBF2716-8A79-4B3B-8DD8-17A054BF188E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <66C12BFE-0D1D-4FBB-8C9F-EFFCC1CB225A@iotecdigital.com>

Kevin has clearly made the point that it has become financially untenable to continue with the classic licensing model. You cannot mean that you want him to go bankrupt so that you can maintain your hobby! You are asking him for what he cannot give. It only remains then for all of us to decide what we can and cannot accept.

Bob S


On Aug 2, 2024, at 7:59 AM, Roger Guay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

I too am in the "Clasic Is For Me Crowd”

- Been here since Metacard
- Use LC strictly as a hobby
- LC is extremely important to me as a hobby
- Have created hundreds of tools, utilities, simulations, fun things just for shear enjoyment and mental exercise
- Have frequent internet problems that interfere with cloud computing
- Have participated in every fundraising campagne
- Frequently contributed to Example Stacks including Alien Civilization Detection simulation

I beg you, Kevin, don’t take this away from us

Roger


From jbv at souslelogo.com  Fri Aug  2 11:33:15 2024
From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com)
Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2024 11:33:15 -0400
Subject: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND 2027!
In-Reply-To: <66C12BFE-0D1D-4FBB-8C9F-EFFCC1CB225A@iotecdigital.com>
References: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>
 <FBBF2716-8A79-4B3B-8DD8-17A054BF188E@mac.com>
 <66C12BFE-0D1D-4FBB-8C9F-EFFCC1CB225A@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <95268c465ed573c8adb5cc69916a5435@souslelogo.com>

Le 2024-08-02 11:17, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode a crit :
> You cannot mean that you want him to go bankrupt

Of course not, but neither me or my clients want to go bankrupt.
My clients have already paid for the deployment of their apps and they
are also paying when some cosmetic changes need to be done.
They don't see why they should also pay for using the apps,
especially because they work in some niche markets where any
additional cost is difficult to handle.

Paying licenses for using Photoshop or dropbox is different,
because one didn't pay anything for the deployment of those apps.
I hope I am making myself clear despite my poor english.


From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Fri Aug  2 11:35:22 2024
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 11:35:22 -0400
Subject: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND 2027!
In-Reply-To: <66C12BFE-0D1D-4FBB-8C9F-EFFCC1CB225A@iotecdigital.com>
References: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>
 <FBBF2716-8A79-4B3B-8DD8-17A054BF188E@mac.com>
 <66C12BFE-0D1D-4FBB-8C9F-EFFCC1CB225A@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycOJeJYYzPQLBt00vga06d9xnQRw4Nj+0Ka9Nx2CRay2QA@mail.gmail.com>

as i have previously said, the new pricing ($440 per deployed device) is
untenable for my companies. we won't pay 4d for their REST licenses (for a
much more complete product), either.
we are starting to actively search for alternatives.
if the pricing does not change to something that is actually reasonable,
we're out.

From heather at livecode.com  Fri Aug  2 11:57:11 2024
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 16:57:11 +0100
Subject: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND 2027!
In-Reply-To: <900b4b3c1e2f090b6a0c7ac6923b6804@souslelogo.com>
References: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>
 <FBBF2716-8A79-4B3B-8DD8-17A054BF188E@mac.com>
 <900b4b3c1e2f090b6a0c7ac6923b6804@souslelogo.com>
Message-ID: <166DF444-03E5-4A23-9AE8-8219F0408B5D@livecode.com>

Or you could explain your problem to us directly, as Kevin has asked a couple of times already on this list and we can see what we can do. 

You have an open ticket in support. You have not as yet told me that the new pricing is unaffordable for you.

Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 2 Aug 2024, at 16:13, jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Same here.
> 
> I have been into hypertalk since the 1st version of HC.
> 
> I have 2 desktop apps for 2 different clients that I maintain, and in each one
> the part developed with LC Classic is just a front end for sending requests to
> the server and displaying the incoming data. In both cases 80% of the tasks is
> done server side with LC on 2 on-rev accounts.
> I know for certain that none of my clients will accept to pay for per-seats
> license.
> 
> So I have 2 options so far :
> - paying myself for these licenses, which I can't afford
> - rewrite the front-end of both apps with html/js and forget about LC.
> 
> jbv
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From heather at livecode.com  Fri Aug  2 11:58:06 2024
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 16:58:06 +0100
Subject: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND 2027!
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycOJeJYYzPQLBt00vga06d9xnQRw4Nj+0Ka9Nx2CRay2QA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>
 <FBBF2716-8A79-4B3B-8DD8-17A054BF188E@mac.com>
 <66C12BFE-0D1D-4FBB-8C9F-EFFCC1CB225A@iotecdigital.com>
 <CADCoycOJeJYYzPQLBt00vga06d9xnQRw4Nj+0Ka9Nx2CRay2QA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C787C2B2-0F41-4350-B92C-EE7A74F2676F@livecode.com>

Mike. We asked you to talk to us before the pricing went public. Kevin has reiterated the request that clients with issues get in touch. I once again extend that invitation to you.

Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 2 Aug 2024, at 16:35, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> as i have previously said, the new pricing ($440 per deployed device) is
> untenable for my companies. we won't pay 4d for their REST licenses (for a
> much more complete product), either.
> we are starting to actively search for alternatives.
> if the pricing does not change to something that is actually reasonable,
> we're out.
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From irog at mac.com  Fri Aug  2 12:00:09 2024
From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 09:00:09 -0700
Subject: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND 2027!
In-Reply-To: <66C12BFE-0D1D-4FBB-8C9F-EFFCC1CB225A@iotecdigital.com>
References: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>
 <FBBF2716-8A79-4B3B-8DD8-17A054BF188E@mac.com>
 <66C12BFE-0D1D-4FBB-8C9F-EFFCC1CB225A@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <952B8915-8D46-435A-92D8-F0D6A7EF21EF@mac.com>

If this is the conclusion that you come to, then I failed to make my case. Sorry!

 I thank Kevin for keeping this amazing tool going for so many years and want him to succeed in the future. 

Roger

> On Aug 2, 2024, at 8:17 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:
> 
> You cannot mean that you want him to go bankrupt so that you can maintain your hobby!


> On Aug 2, 2024, at 8:17 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Kevin has clearly made the point that it has become financially untenable to continue with the classic licensing model. You cannot mean that you want him to go bankrupt so that you can maintain your hobby! You are asking him for what he cannot give. It only remains then for all of us to decide what we can and cannot accept.
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
> On Aug 2, 2024, at 7:59 AM, Roger Guay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I too am in the "Clasic Is For Me Crowd”
> 
> - Been here since Metacard
> - Use LC strictly as a hobby
> - LC is extremely important to me as a hobby
> - Have created hundreds of tools, utilities, simulations, fun things just for shear enjoyment and mental exercise
> - Have frequent internet problems that interfere with cloud computing
> - Have participated in every fundraising campagne
> - Frequently contributed to Example Stacks including Alien Civilization Detection simulation
> 
> I beg you, Kevin, don’t take this away from us
> 
> Roger
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From hakan at exformedia.se  Fri Aug  2 12:13:50 2024
From: hakan at exformedia.se (=?utf-8?Q?H=C3=A5kan_Liljegren?=)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 18:13:50 +0200
Subject: Individual licensing questions
In-Reply-To: <190f003b830.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <7F21E930-DFAB-4041-A7E2-C0B4ADB70DC2@livecode.com>
 <190f003b830.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <DE13B361-EC9A-4646-BF11-29E956E6045F@exformedia.se>

Hmm, wouldn’t this count in the other tier as you sell your app, thus you should pay 5% of $75? $3.75
 
:-Håkan

> 26 juli 2024 kl. 19:08 skrev J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> I hope this is generic enough.
> 
> I have several clients who use apps I created just for them, 20 years ago or more. Frequently these are converted HyperCard stacks like address books or recipe files. The apps are personal and no one else uses them. Every 2 or 3 years they contact me because the app stops working, usually due to an incompatible OS update. I recompile the app, and sometimes make a few requested tweaks. Since a compile takes only a few minutes, and because I know these people personally, I charge almost nothing for these services. My last invoice for a rebuild and a minor change was $75.
> 
> I do not want to tell them that they will need to spend hundreds of dollars more for a one time minor update. They will not want a subscription because it's years between changes. And because they are not companies and many are now retired, paying hundreds of dollars to maintain an address book is not feasible. I am very sensitive to their budget requirements.
> 
> I'd like to propose a floor under which no royalty or subscription is required. A minimum charge of, say, $500 would yield $25 to LC at the 5% rate. A charge of $1000 would yield $50.
> 
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On July 26, 2024 6:04:30 AM Kevin Miller via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Folks, I'm happy to go on discussing the licensing model in general on here as needed, for example edge cases or things that aren’t clear in the model, as it helps us to hone it. But at this point if you have individual questions about the costs for you under the new model, please email them to support and we can give you an accurate quote and talk you through your options. Otherwise we are going to be going over the same territory here on the list for some time to come! We’ll build out the information pages some more worked examples next week too. Thanks.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Kevin
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Kevin Miller ~ kevin at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
>> 
>> LiveCode: Build Amazing Things
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Fri Aug  2 12:21:09 2024
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 12:21:09 -0400
Subject: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND 2027!
In-Reply-To: <952B8915-8D46-435A-92D8-F0D6A7EF21EF@mac.com>
References: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>
 <FBBF2716-8A79-4B3B-8DD8-17A054BF188E@mac.com>
 <66C12BFE-0D1D-4FBB-8C9F-EFFCC1CB225A@iotecdigital.com>
 <952B8915-8D46-435A-92D8-F0D6A7EF21EF@mac.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycPo9Z53HkYD3Tz0zwJDDVytdnz2=UVKAfjY_hF0Bck-yg@mail.gmail.com>

heather, as i told you, at the time, i am busy running multiple companies.
i don't have time for pitches.
i asked for you to send me the information so that i could review it, ahead
of a call. that request was declined.
if the pricing remains untenable, we will be rewriting apps and exiting.


On Fri, Aug 2, 2024 at 12:01 PM Roger Guay via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> If this is the conclusion that you come to, then I failed to make my case.
> Sorry!
>
>  I thank Kevin for keeping this amazing tool going for so many years and
> want him to succeed in the future.
>
> Roger
>
> > On Aug 2, 2024, at 8:17 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>
> wrote:
> >
> > You cannot mean that you want him to go bankrupt so that you can
> maintain your hobby!
>
>
> > On Aug 2, 2024, at 8:17 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Kevin has clearly made the point that it has become financially
> untenable to continue with the classic licensing model. You cannot mean
> that you want him to go bankrupt so that you can maintain your hobby! You
> are asking him for what he cannot give. It only remains then for all of us
> to decide what we can and cannot accept.
> >
> > Bob S
> >
> >
> > On Aug 2, 2024, at 7:59 AM, Roger Guay via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > I too am in the "Clasic Is For Me Crowd”
> >
> > - Been here since Metacard
> > - Use LC strictly as a hobby
> > - LC is extremely important to me as a hobby
> > - Have created hundreds of tools, utilities, simulations, fun things
> just for shear enjoyment and mental exercise
> > - Have frequent internet problems that interfere with cloud computing
> > - Have participated in every fundraising campagne
> > - Frequently contributed to Example Stacks including Alien Civilization
> Detection simulation
> >
> > I beg you, Kevin, don’t take this away from us
> >
> > Roger
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From jbv at souslelogo.com  Fri Aug  2 12:47:12 2024
From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com)
Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2024 12:47:12 -0400
Subject: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND 2027!
In-Reply-To: <166DF444-03E5-4A23-9AE8-8219F0408B5D@livecode.com>
References: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>
 <FBBF2716-8A79-4B3B-8DD8-17A054BF188E@mac.com>
 <900b4b3c1e2f090b6a0c7ac6923b6804@souslelogo.com>
 <166DF444-03E5-4A23-9AE8-8219F0408B5D@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <a816d70fc3bd44cbf951216e730cf6a4@souslelogo.com>

Heather,

I know you suggested a zoom meeting before announcing the new pricing 
plans, but
we were unable to proceed, mainly because I was really busy with the 
server transfer
for our on-rev accounts and all the troubles it caused to my clients 
with their apps
and all the little adjustments that needed to be made.
Besides I needed to check how my clients would react to the new pricing 
plans before
making any decision, and only 2 days ago I was able to find the time to 
check how
much it really meant.
Last but not least, it is very nice of you to offer the possibility of a 
workaround,
but I guess any solution will only be a short-term one, and I need a 
solution for
the many years to come.

jbv

Le 2024-08-02 11:57, Heather Laine via use-livecode a crit :
> Or you could explain your problem to us directly, as Kevin has asked a 
> couple of times already on this list and we can see what we can do.
> 
> You have an open ticket in support. You have not as yet told me that 
> the new pricing is unaffordable for you.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On 2 Aug 2024, at 16:13, jbv via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Same here.
>> 
>> I have been into hypertalk since the 1st version of HC.
>> 
>> I have 2 desktop apps for 2 different clients that I maintain, and in 
>> each one
>> the part developed with LC Classic is just a front end for sending 
>> requests to
>> the server and displaying the incoming data. In both cases 80% of the 
>> tasks is
>> done server side with LC on 2 on-rev accounts.
>> I know for certain that none of my clients will accept to pay for 
>> per-seats
>> license.
>> 
>> So I have 2 options so far :
>> - paying myself for these licenses, which I can't afford
>> - rewrite the front-end of both apps with html/js and forget about LC.
>> 
>> jbv
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From kevin at stallibrass.com  Fri Aug  2 12:50:18 2024
From: kevin at stallibrass.com (Kevin Stallibrass)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 17:50:18 +0100
Subject: Livecode Future
Message-ID: <3B29DBC2-1DC4-4DAA-A835-4EA299B378FC@stallibrass.com>

Retiree’s comments:
I started with runtime revolution v1 when it was included on a PC Pro magazine all those years ago and immediately built my first program which was a neat utility (in 4 languages) which was used by my company. No fee, plenty cudos.

Continued using Runrev over the years to build tools for myself. Cudos from family and friends

Got a commercial licence when I created my only ‘big’ app which worked on PC’s, Macs, Android, & iOS, all talking to a Livecode server. Even included  an iOS push notification server running on Rpi which was featured in the last RevUp newsletter.
Plenty cudos from company, no payment but avoided a redundancy round and got a free holiday for me and my wife in a swanky villa in the Med.

Favorite app was for iPad ( talking to server) which really helped our sales force - and phoned home when they used it.
Super cudos avoiding the next round of redundancies.

When that company finally folded, I reverted back to the community licence and built a few things for myself and family.

Long, boring story I know but the point i’d like to make is that Runrev enabled me to start coding. They supported me through commercial licence and community freebee’s

I’m retired but still grateful for what the Runrev team has enabled me to do. Thanks for your support Kevin and I sincerely hope you get through this change and continue to help people as stupid as myself succeed.



Regards
Kevin Stallibrass
Sent from my iPhone

> On 2 Aug 2024, at 17:01, use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:
> 
> Send use-livecode mailing list submissions to
>   use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>   http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>   use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>   use-livecode-owner at lists.runrev.com
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of use-livecode digest..."
> 
> 
> you can find the archives for this list at:
> 
> http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/
> 
> and search them using this link:
> 
> https://www.mail-archive.com/use-livecode at lists.runrev.com/
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>  1. Late arrival to LiveCode Future (and possibly early leaver!)
>     (Ben Rubinstein)
>  2. Re: Late arrival to LiveCode Future (and possibly early
>     leaver!) (Kenji Kojima)
>  3. By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND
>     2027! (Curry Kenworthy)
>  4. Re: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs
>     BEYOND 2027! (Kaveh Bazargan)
>  5. Re: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs
>     BEYOND 2027! (Roger Guay)
>  6. Re: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs
>     BEYOND 2027! (jbv at souslelogo.com)
>  7. Re: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs
>     BEYOND 2027! (Bob Sneidar)
>  8. Re: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs
>     BEYOND 2027! (jbv at souslelogo.com)
>  9. Re: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs
>     BEYOND 2027! (Mike Kerner)
> 10. Re: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs
>     BEYOND 2027! (Heather Laine)
> 11. Re: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs
>     BEYOND 2027! (Heather Laine)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 08:22:00 +0100
> From: Ben Rubinstein <benr_mc at cogapp.com>
> To: Use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: Late arrival to LiveCode Future (and possibly early leaver!)
> Message-ID: <48549626-1050-46d4-a581-248870345cf8 at cogapp.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> 
> I've been away, in various senses, and only just read about all this.
> 
> I have enormous respect for Kevin and LiveCode.
> 
> I've been using the product since it was Metacard, and Revolution (as it was
> then) was an enormous upgrade. The first bug I reported in the quality control
> centre was over 20 years ago (was there another system before then? I don't
> recall anymore). (And indeed the 64th report I made, marked as CONFIRMED but
> still not actioned, that I'd still like, was reported over 20 years ago... ?).
> 
> I've used it to make tools for myself, a lot; tools for my colleagues a bit;
> tools for clients a bit. Mostly now it's tools for myself, which very rarely
> get built into standalones; but I still maintain a few tools for clients.
> 
> As the world developed over the decades, I feared for Kevin's company,
> whatever it was variously called. I felt that they were pursuing an almost
> impossible mission, maintaining and extending an extremely niche language
> across multiple platforms - having to persuade potential clients to buy a
> language before they could try to persuade them to buy a product. I supported
> most or all of the various fundraisers, sometimes with my company's money but
> more often with my own, even for developments I'm not interested in like HTML
> and Xavvi; in solidarity. I'm sorry that the open source experiment didn't
> work out, I'm sorry that the Filemaker idea didn't work out.
> 
> I am frankly surprised, and deeply impressed, that they have survived this
> long. It is a tribute to their tenacity and agility.
> 
> They have the right to take the company and product in whatever direction they
> think will produce the best result, and I wish them all the best luck in the
> world.
> 
> Having said all that:
> 
> - Create is not for me.
> 
> - I'll keep using Classic while I can
> 
> - Please put everything we to need know in text - I can't watch videos*
> 
> - Three things I don't yet know:
>   - Is Classic changing in any way - e.g. will standalones phone home?
>   - Classic supported to 2025 - is that Jan 1 2027, or Dec 31 2027?
>   - When Classic goes EOL, will it stop working, or just not receive updates
> for new OS, app store rules etc?
> 
> Thanks and all the best,
> 
> Ben
> 
> 
> * doc hawk wrote (01/08/2024):
>> You say the as if expecting someone to view a video to get information
> wasn?t an act of Evil . . . :)
> 
> - and probably against DDA/ADA/EA
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 05:59:25 -0400
> From: Kenji Kojima <index at kenjikojima.com>
> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: Re: Late arrival to LiveCode Future (and possibly early
>   leaver!)
> Message-ID: <52B83FC8-17BB-4AE1-BDE9-C84A39126005 at kenjikojima.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=utf-8
> 
> I agree Ben.
> 
> I've used it to make tools for myself
> - Create is not for me.
> - I'll keep using Classic while I can
> - Please put everything we to need know in text
> - I can't watch videos*
> 
> Best,
> --
> Kenji Kojima / ????
> http://www.kenjikojima.com/
> 
> 
> 
>> On Aug 2, 2024, at 3:22?AM, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> I've been away, in various senses, and only just read about all this.
>> I have enormous respect for Kevin and LiveCode.
>> I've been using the product since it was Metacard, and Revolution (as it was then) was an enormous upgrade. The first bug I reported in the quality control centre was over 20 years ago (was there another system before then? I don't recall anymore). (And indeed the 64th report I made, marked as CONFIRMED but still not actioned, that I'd still like, was reported over 20 years ago... ?).
>> I've used it to make tools for myself, a lot; tools for my colleagues a bit; tools for clients a bit. Mostly now it's tools for myself, which very rarely get built into standalones; but I still maintain a few tools for clients.
>> As the world developed over the decades, I feared for Kevin's company, whatever it was variously called. I felt that they were pursuing an almost impossible mission, maintaining and extending an extremely niche language across multiple platforms - having to persuade potential clients to buy a language before they could try to persuade them to buy a product. I supported most or all of the various fundraisers, sometimes with my company's money but more often with my own, even for developments I'm not interested in like HTML and Xavvi; in solidarity. I'm sorry that the open source experiment didn't work out, I'm sorry that the Filemaker idea didn't work out.
>> I am frankly surprised, and deeply impressed, that they have survived this long. It is a tribute to their tenacity and agility.
>> They have the right to take the company and product in whatever direction they think will produce the best result, and I wish them all the best luck in the world.
>> Having said all that:
>> - Create is not for me.
>> - I'll keep using Classic while I can
>> - Please put everything we to need know in text - I can't watch videos*
>> - Three things I don't yet know:
>> - Is Classic changing in any way - e.g. will standalones phone home?
>> - Classic supported to 2025 - is that Jan 1 2027, or Dec 31 2027?
>> - When Classic goes EOL, will it stop working, or just not receive updates for new OS, app store rules etc?
>> Thanks and all the best,
>> Ben
>> * doc hawk wrote (01/08/2024):
>>> You say the as if expecting someone to view a video to get information wasn?t an act of Evil . . . :)
>> - and probably against DDA/ADA/EA
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 10:31:16 -0400
> From: Curry Kenworthy <curry at pair.com>
> To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND
>   2027!
> Message-ID: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5 at pair.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> 
> 
> Everyone I know wants to keep using LC Classic for a while.
> Most people still want it. Read this list. LC Classic is popular!
> 
> Launching LC 10 as DOA or a 'lame duck' makes little sense.
> LC 9 and 10 are still heavily in demand under the old terms.
> 
> (I'm not against progress; in fact, before Create was announced ...
> I knew of at least 3 independent next-gen projects for LiveCode.
> Including my own! None would have cost $ millions, but anyway. :)
> Make a smoother, friendlier LiveCode transition for best results.)
> 
> So, how long can we access the bona fide LC 9 and 10 Classic IDEs?
> Given the widespread demand - Through end of 2028? 2029? 2030?
> For all those of us who keep existing subscriptions, at least.
> And maintain LC 10 platform support for that duration.
> 
> (Old licensing terms for app builds created with them, of course.)
> 
> Kudos to all those thinking the same thing, and speaking up!
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Curry Kenworthy
> 
> Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
> "PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
> https://livecodeconsulting.com/
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 15:51:14 +0100
> From: Kaveh Bazargan <kaveh at rivervalley.io>
> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Cc: Curry Kenworthy <curry at pair.com>
> Subject: Re: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs
>   BEYOND 2027!
> Message-ID:
>   <CAJ2R9pgg_p6Hi4eDiTssm_Pn9DyjCNjJD4iRBjCsor=K0bUDHA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> 
> I've been half following the recent tweets but just don't have the mental
> capacity to keep up.
> 
> FYI I used HyperCard since it was Beta and no manual!! I really commend
> what Kevin and team have done to keep the world's most friendly programming
> environment going. I wish I could just pay for LiveCode and use it. I am
> guessing that is what Classic is. But perhaps I am just getting too old!
> 
> Regards
> Kaveh
> 
> On Fri, 2 Aug 2024 at 15:32, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Everyone I know wants to keep using LC Classic for a while.
>> Most people still want it. Read this list. LC Classic is popular!
>> Launching LC 10 as DOA or a 'lame duck' makes little sense.
>> LC 9 and 10 are still heavily in demand under the old terms.
>> (I'm not against progress; in fact, before Create was announced ...
>> I knew of at least 3 independent next-gen projects for LiveCode.
>> Including my own! None would have cost $ millions, but anyway. :)
>> Make a smoother, friendlier LiveCode transition for best results.)
>> So, how long can we access the bona fide LC 9 and 10 Classic IDEs?
>> Given the widespread demand - Through end of 2028? 2029? 2030?
>> For all those of us who keep existing subscriptions, at least.
>> And maintain LC 10 platform support for that duration.
>> (Old licensing terms for app builds created with them, of course.)
>> Kudos to all those thinking the same thing, and speaking up!
>> Best wishes,
>> Curry Kenworthy
>> Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
>> "PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
>> https://livecodeconsulting.com/
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> --
> Kaveh Bazargan PhD
> Director
> River Valley Technologies <http://rivervalley.io> ? Twitter
> <https://twitter.com/rivervalley1000> ? LinkedIn
> <https://www.linkedin.com/in/bazargankaveh/> ? ORCID
> <https://orcid.org/0000-0002-1414-9098> ? @kaveh1000 at mastodon.social
> <https://mastodon.social/@kaveh1000>
> *Accelerating the Communication of Research*
> 
> *
> <https://www.linkedin.com/posts/bazargankaveh_ismte-innovation-award-recipient-kaveh-bazargan-activity-7039348552526921728-XAEB/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop>
> [image:
> https://rivervalley.io/gigabyte-wins-the-alpsp-scholarly-publishing-innovation-award-using-river-valleys-publishing-technology/]
> <https://rivervalley.io/gigabyte-wins-the-alpsp-scholarly-publishing-innovation-award-using-river-valleys-publishing-technology/>*
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 07:59:43 -0700
> From: Roger Guay <irog at mac.com>
> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: Re: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs
>   BEYOND 2027!
> Message-ID: <FBBF2716-8A79-4B3B-8DD8-17A054BF188E at mac.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=utf-8
> 
> I too am in the "Clasic Is For Me Crowd?
> 
> - Been here since Metacard
> - Use LC strictly as a hobby
> - LC is extremely important to me as a hobby
> - Have created hundreds of tools, utilities, simulations, fun things just for shear enjoyment and mental exercise
> - Have frequent internet problems that interfere with cloud computing
> - Have participated in every fundraising campagne
> - Frequently contributed to Example Stacks including Alien Civilization Detection simulation
> 
> I beg you, Kevin, don?t take this away from us
> 
> Roger
> 
>> On Aug 2, 2024, at 7:31?AM, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> Everyone I know wants to keep using LC Classic for a while.
>> Most people still want it. Read this list. LC Classic is popular!
>> Launching LC 10 as DOA or a 'lame duck' makes little sense.
>> LC 9 and 10 are still heavily in demand under the old terms.
>> (I'm not against progress; in fact, before Create was announced ...
>> I knew of at least 3 independent next-gen projects for LiveCode.
>> Including my own! None would have cost $ millions, but anyway. :)
>> Make a smoother, friendlier LiveCode transition for best results.)
>> So, how long can we access the bona fide LC 9 and 10 Classic IDEs?
>> Given the widespread demand - Through end of 2028? 2029? 2030?
>> For all those of us who keep existing subscriptions, at least.
>> And maintain LC 10 platform support for that duration.
>> (Old licensing terms for app builds created with them, of course.)
>> Kudos to all those thinking the same thing, and speaking up!
>> Best wishes,
>> Curry Kenworthy
>> Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
>> "PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
>> https://livecodeconsulting.com/
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2024 11:13:05 -0400
> From: jbv at souslelogo.com
> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: Re: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs
>   BEYOND 2027!
> Message-ID: <900b4b3c1e2f090b6a0c7ac6923b6804 at souslelogo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
> 
> Same here.
> 
> I have been into hypertalk since the 1st version of HC.
> 
> I have 2 desktop apps for 2 different clients that I maintain, and in
> each one
> the part developed with LC Classic is just a front end for sending
> requests to
> the server and displaying the incoming data. In both cases 80% of the
> tasks is
> done server side with LC on 2 on-rev accounts.
> I know for certain that none of my clients will accept to pay for
> per-seats
> license.
> 
> So I have 2 options so far :
> - paying myself for these licenses, which I can't afford
> - rewrite the front-end of both apps with html/js and forget about LC.
> 
> jbv
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 15:17:42 +0000
> From: Bob Sneidar <bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com>
> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: Re: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs
>   BEYOND 2027!
> Message-ID: <66C12BFE-0D1D-4FBB-8C9F-EFFCC1CB225A at iotecdigital.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Kevin has clearly made the point that it has become financially untenable to continue with the classic licensing model. You cannot mean that you want him to go bankrupt so that you can maintain your hobby! You are asking him for what he cannot give. It only remains then for all of us to decide what we can and cannot accept.
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
> On Aug 2, 2024, at 7:59 AM, Roger Guay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I too am in the "Clasic Is For Me Crowd?
> 
> - Been here since Metacard
> - Use LC strictly as a hobby
> - LC is extremely important to me as a hobby
> - Have created hundreds of tools, utilities, simulations, fun things just for shear enjoyment and mental exercise
> - Have frequent internet problems that interfere with cloud computing
> - Have participated in every fundraising campagne
> - Frequently contributed to Example Stacks including Alien Civilization Detection simulation
> 
> I beg you, Kevin, don?t take this away from us
> 
> Roger
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 8
> Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2024 11:33:15 -0400
> From: jbv at souslelogo.com
> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: Re: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs
>   BEYOND 2027!
> Message-ID: <95268c465ed573c8adb5cc69916a5435 at souslelogo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> 
> Le 2024-08-02 11:17, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode a ?crit?:
>> You cannot mean that you want him to go bankrupt
> 
> Of course not, but neither me or my clients want to go bankrupt.
> My clients have already paid for the deployment of their apps and they
> are also paying when some cosmetic changes need to be done.
> They don't see why they should also pay for using the apps,
> especially because they work in some niche markets where any
> additional cost is difficult to handle.
> 
> Paying licenses for using Photoshop or dropbox is different,
> because one didn't pay anything for the deployment of those apps.
> I hope I am making myself clear despite my poor english.
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 9
> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 11:35:22 -0400
> From: Mike Kerner <MikeKerner at roadrunner.com>
> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: Re: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs
>   BEYOND 2027!
> Message-ID:
>   <CADCoycOJeJYYzPQLBt00vga06d9xnQRw4Nj+0Ka9Nx2CRay2QA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> 
> as i have previously said, the new pricing ($440 per deployed device) is
> untenable for my companies. we won't pay 4d for their REST licenses (for a
> much more complete product), either.
> we are starting to actively search for alternatives.
> if the pricing does not change to something that is actually reasonable,
> we're out.
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 10
> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 16:57:11 +0100
> From: Heather Laine <heather at livecode.com>
> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: Re: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs
>   BEYOND 2027!
> Message-ID: <166DF444-03E5-4A23-9AE8-8219F0408B5D at livecode.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=us-ascii
> 
> Or you could explain your problem to us directly, as Kevin has asked a couple of times already on this list and we can see what we can do.
> 
> You have an open ticket in support. You have not as yet told me that the new pricing is unaffordable for you.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On 2 Aug 2024, at 16:13, jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> Same here.
>> I have been into hypertalk since the 1st version of HC.
>> I have 2 desktop apps for 2 different clients that I maintain, and in each one
>> the part developed with LC Classic is just a front end for sending requests to
>> the server and displaying the incoming data. In both cases 80% of the tasks is
>> done server side with LC on 2 on-rev accounts.
>> I know for certain that none of my clients will accept to pay for per-seats
>> license.
>> So I have 2 options so far :
>> - paying myself for these licenses, which I can't afford
>> - rewrite the front-end of both apps with html/js and forget about LC.
>> jbv
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 11
> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 16:58:06 +0100
> From: Heather Laine <heather at livecode.com>
> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: Re: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs
>   BEYOND 2027!
> Message-ID: <C787C2B2-0F41-4350-B92C-EE7A74F2676F at livecode.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=us-ascii
> 
> Mike. We asked you to talk to us before the pricing went public. Kevin has reiterated the request that clients with issues get in touch. I once again extend that invitation to you.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On 2 Aug 2024, at 16:35, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> as i have previously said, the new pricing ($440 per deployed device) is
>> untenable for my companies. we won't pay 4d for their REST licenses (for a
>> much more complete product), either.
>> we are starting to actively search for alternatives.
>> if the pricing does not change to something that is actually reasonable,
>> we're out.
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Subject: Digest Footer
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> End of use-livecode Digest, Vol 251, Issue 2
> ********************************************



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Aug  2 12:55:53 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 16:55:53 +0000
Subject: Livecode Future
In-Reply-To: <3B29DBC2-1DC4-4DAA-A835-4EA299B378FC@stallibrass.com>
References: <3B29DBC2-1DC4-4DAA-A835-4EA299B378FC@stallibrass.com>
Message-ID: <2005282E-8BB9-496F-A6AE-2CFBF029EB88@iotecdigital.com>

+1

On Aug 2, 2024, at 9:50 AM, Kevin Stallibrass via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

Retiree’s comments:
I started with runtime revolution v1 when it was included on a PC Pro magazine all those years ago and immediately built my first program which was a neat utility (in 4 languages) which was used by my company. No fee, plenty cudos.

Continued using Runrev over the years to build tools for myself. Cudos from family and friends

Got a commercial licence when I created my only ‘big’ app which worked on PC’s, Macs, Android, & iOS, all talking to a Livecode server. Even included  an iOS push notification server running on Rpi which was featured in the last RevUp newsletter.
Plenty cudos from company, no payment but avoided a redundancy round and got a free holiday for me and my wife in a swanky villa in the Med.

Favorite app was for iPad ( talking to server) which really helped our sales force - and phoned home when they used it.
Super cudos avoiding the next round of redundancies.

When that company finally folded, I reverted back to the community licence and built a few things for myself and family.

Long, boring story I know but the point i’d like to make is that Runrev enabled me to start coding. They supported me through commercial licence and community freebee’s

I’m retired but still grateful for what the Runrev team has enabled me to do. Thanks for your support Kevin and I sincerely hope you get through this change and continue to help people as stupid as myself succeed.



Regards
Kevin Stallibrass
Sent from my iPhone


From heather at livecode.com  Fri Aug  2 13:05:55 2024
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 18:05:55 +0100
Subject: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND 2027!
In-Reply-To: <a816d70fc3bd44cbf951216e730cf6a4@souslelogo.com>
References: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>
 <FBBF2716-8A79-4B3B-8DD8-17A054BF188E@mac.com>
 <900b4b3c1e2f090b6a0c7ac6923b6804@souslelogo.com>
 <166DF444-03E5-4A23-9AE8-8219F0408B5D@livecode.com>
 <a816d70fc3bd44cbf951216e730cf6a4@souslelogo.com>
Message-ID: <426E35CC-7162-4172-B48F-33F2F371186A@livecode.com>

Well lets discuss that. Off list.

I'm done for the weekend now and we have a holiday on Monday in Scotland, so I'lll come back to you on Tuesday with some thoughts.

Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 2 Aug 2024, at 17:47, jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Heather,
> 
> I know you suggested a zoom meeting before announcing the new pricing plans, but
> we were unable to proceed, mainly because I was really busy with the server transfer
> for our on-rev accounts and all the troubles it caused to my clients with their apps
> and all the little adjustments that needed to be made.
> Besides I needed to check how my clients would react to the new pricing plans before
> making any decision, and only 2 days ago I was able to find the time to check how
> much it really meant.
> Last but not least, it is very nice of you to offer the possibility of a workaround,
> but I guess any solution will only be a short-term one, and I need a solution for
> the many years to come.
> 
> jbv
> 
> Le 2024-08-02 11:57, Heather Laine via use-livecode a écrit :
>> Or you could explain your problem to us directly, as Kevin has asked a couple of times already on this list and we can see what we can do.
>> You have an open ticket in support. You have not as yet told me that the new pricing is unaffordable for you.
>> Best Regards,
>> Heather
>> Heather Laine
>> Customer Services Manager
>> LiveCode Ltd
>> www.livecode.com
>>> On 2 Aug 2024, at 16:13, jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> Same here.
>>> I have been into hypertalk since the 1st version of HC.
>>> I have 2 desktop apps for 2 different clients that I maintain, and in each one
>>> the part developed with LC Classic is just a front end for sending requests to
>>> the server and displaying the incoming data. In both cases 80% of the tasks is
>>> done server side with LC on 2 on-rev accounts.
>>> I know for certain that none of my clients will accept to pay for per-seats
>>> license.
>>> So I have 2 options so far :
>>> - paying myself for these licenses, which I can't afford
>>> - rewrite the front-end of both apps with html/js and forget about LC.
>>> jbv
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From heather at livecode.com  Fri Aug  2 13:10:15 2024
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 18:10:15 +0100
Subject: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND 2027!
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycPo9Z53HkYD3Tz0zwJDDVytdnz2=UVKAfjY_hF0Bck-yg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>
 <FBBF2716-8A79-4B3B-8DD8-17A054BF188E@mac.com>
 <66C12BFE-0D1D-4FBB-8C9F-EFFCC1CB225A@iotecdigital.com>
 <952B8915-8D46-435A-92D8-F0D6A7EF21EF@mac.com>
 <CADCoycPo9Z53HkYD3Tz0zwJDDVytdnz2=UVKAfjY_hF0Bck-yg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2EE82B11-A48B-409C-91D2-DAB7A7659776@livecode.com>

I understand busy. Sometimes we are so busy chopping down trees we cannot see the wood.

You have a specific situation. The people on this list cannot help you resolve it. Talking about it on this list and indeed reading the long conversations on this list is using up your precious time. Maybe taking half an hour to talk about it direct with us would resolve it and potentially save you... I have no idea how long rewriting your apps. 

But its entirely up to you.

Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 2 Aug 2024, at 17:21, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> heather, as i told you, at the time, i am busy running multiple companies.
> i don't have time for pitches.
> i asked for you to send me the information so that i could review it, ahead
> of a call. that request was declined.
> if the pricing remains untenable, we will be rewriting apps and exiting.
> 
> 
> On Fri, Aug 2, 2024 at 12:01 PM Roger Guay via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> If this is the conclusion that you come to, then I failed to make my case.
>> Sorry!
>> 
>> I thank Kevin for keeping this amazing tool going for so many years and
>> want him to succeed in the future.
>> 
>> Roger
>> 
>>> On Aug 2, 2024, at 8:17 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> You cannot mean that you want him to go bankrupt so that you can
>> maintain your hobby!
>> 
>> 
>>> On Aug 2, 2024, at 8:17 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Kevin has clearly made the point that it has become financially
>> untenable to continue with the classic licensing model. You cannot mean
>> that you want him to go bankrupt so that you can maintain your hobby! You
>> are asking him for what he cannot give. It only remains then for all of us
>> to decide what we can and cannot accept.
>>> 
>>> Bob S
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Aug 2, 2024, at 7:59 AM, Roger Guay via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I too am in the "Clasic Is For Me Crowd”
>>> 
>>> - Been here since Metacard
>>> - Use LC strictly as a hobby
>>> - LC is extremely important to me as a hobby
>>> - Have created hundreds of tools, utilities, simulations, fun things
>> just for shear enjoyment and mental exercise
>>> - Have frequent internet problems that interfere with cloud computing
>>> - Have participated in every fundraising campagne
>>> - Frequently contributed to Example Stacks including Alien Civilization
>> Detection simulation
>>> 
>>> I beg you, Kevin, don’t take this away from us
>>> 
>>> Roger
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>   and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Aug  2 13:20:54 2024
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2024 12:20:54 -0500
Subject: Individual licensing questions
In-Reply-To: <DE13B361-EC9A-4646-BF11-29E956E6045F@exformedia.se>
References: <7F21E930-DFAB-4041-A7E2-C0B4ADB70DC2@livecode.com>
 <190f003b830.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <DE13B361-EC9A-4646-BF11-29E956E6045F@exformedia.se>
Message-ID: <191141bd4f0.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

I don't think so. These apps are bespoke apps (a lovely word not seen often 
in the US.) This from the FAQ:

"I create apps for other companies and sell services to those companies as 
a consultancy service to create them"
"You need one license for each developer of the app. The company you 
developed the software for needs an Internal app license for each user if 
the app is used internally."

On the other hand, a single retired user is not a company. When the time 
comes I will contact LC support. We have 3 years to decide.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On August 2, 2024 11:15:59 AM Hkan Liljegren via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hmm, wouldnt this count in the other tier as you sell your app, thus you 
> should pay 5% of $75? $3.75
>
> :-Hkan
>
>> 26 juli 2024 kl. 19:08 skrev J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>
>> I hope this is generic enough.
>>
>> I have several clients who use apps I created just for them, 20 years ago 
>> or more. Frequently these are converted HyperCard stacks like address books 
>> or recipe files. The apps are personal and no one else uses them. Every 2 
>> or 3 years they contact me because the app stops working, usually due to an 
>> incompatible OS update. I recompile the app, and sometimes make a few 
>> requested tweaks. Since a compile takes only a few minutes, and because I 
>> know these people personally, I charge almost nothing for these services. 
>> My last invoice for a rebuild and a minor change was $75.
>>
>> I do not want to tell them that they will need to spend hundreds of dollars 
>> more for a one time minor update. They will not want a subscription because 
>> it's years between changes. And because they are not companies and many are 
>> now retired, paying hundreds of dollars to maintain an address book is not 
>> feasible. I am very sensitive to their budget requirements.
>>
>> I'd like to propose a floor under which no royalty or subscription is 
>> required. A minimum charge of, say, $500 would yield $25 to LC at the 5% 
>> rate. A charge of $1000 would yield $50.
>>
>> --
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>> On July 26, 2024 6:04:30 AM Kevin Miller via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Folks, I'm happy to go on discussing the licensing model in general on here 
>>> as needed, for example edge cases or things that arent clear in the model, 
>>> as it helps us to hone it. But at this point if you have individual 
>>> questions about the costs for you under the new model, please email them to 
>>> support and we can give you an accurate quote and talk you through your 
>>> options. Otherwise we are going to be going over the same territory here on 
>>> the list for some time to come! Well build out the information pages some 
>>> more worked examples next week too. Thanks.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Kevin
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Kevin Miller ~ kevin at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
>>>
>>> LiveCode: Build Amazing Things
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Fri Aug  2 13:34:11 2024
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 13:34:11 -0400
Subject: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND 2027!
In-Reply-To: <2EE82B11-A48B-409C-91D2-DAB7A7659776@livecode.com>
References: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>
 <FBBF2716-8A79-4B3B-8DD8-17A054BF188E@mac.com>
 <66C12BFE-0D1D-4FBB-8C9F-EFFCC1CB225A@iotecdigital.com>
 <952B8915-8D46-435A-92D8-F0D6A7EF21EF@mac.com>
 <CADCoycPo9Z53HkYD3Tz0zwJDDVytdnz2=UVKAfjY_hF0Bck-yg@mail.gmail.com>
 <2EE82B11-A48B-409C-91D2-DAB7A7659776@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycNnG5bNL_GG7z6eB7VkQ3Z45fANBNrjirxQkWwvhUVGEA@mail.gmail.com>

sunlight is the greatest disinfectant.
these are conversations that should be held in the open.

On Fri, Aug 2, 2024 at 1:10 PM Heather Laine via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I understand busy. Sometimes we are so busy chopping down trees we cannot
> see the wood.
>
> You have a specific situation. The people on this list cannot help you
> resolve it. Talking about it on this list and indeed reading the long
> conversations on this list is using up your precious time. Maybe taking
> half an hour to talk about it direct with us would resolve it and
> potentially save you... I have no idea how long rewriting your apps.
>
> But its entirely up to you.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Heather
>
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
>
>
>
> > On 2 Aug 2024, at 17:21, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > heather, as i told you, at the time, i am busy running multiple
> companies.
> > i don't have time for pitches.
> > i asked for you to send me the information so that i could review it,
> ahead
> > of a call. that request was declined.
> > if the pricing remains untenable, we will be rewriting apps and exiting.
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 2, 2024 at 12:01 PM Roger Guay via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >> If this is the conclusion that you come to, then I failed to make my
> case.
> >> Sorry!
> >>
> >> I thank Kevin for keeping this amazing tool going for so many years and
> >> want him to succeed in the future.
> >>
> >> Roger
> >>
> >>> On Aug 2, 2024, at 8:17 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> You cannot mean that you want him to go bankrupt so that you can
> >> maintain your hobby!
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Aug 2, 2024, at 8:17 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Kevin has clearly made the point that it has become financially
> >> untenable to continue with the classic licensing model. You cannot mean
> >> that you want him to go bankrupt so that you can maintain your hobby!
> You
> >> are asking him for what he cannot give. It only remains then for all of
> us
> >> to decide what we can and cannot accept.
> >>>
> >>> Bob S
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Aug 2, 2024, at 7:59 AM, Roger Guay via use-livecode <
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I too am in the "Clasic Is For Me Crowd”
> >>>
> >>> - Been here since Metacard
> >>> - Use LC strictly as a hobby
> >>> - LC is extremely important to me as a hobby
> >>> - Have created hundreds of tools, utilities, simulations, fun things
> >> just for shear enjoyment and mental exercise
> >>> - Have frequent internet problems that interfere with cloud computing
> >>> - Have participated in every fundraising campagne
> >>> - Frequently contributed to Example Stacks including Alien Civilization
> >> Detection simulation
> >>>
> >>> I beg you, Kevin, don’t take this away from us
> >>>
> >>> Roger
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> use-livecode mailing list
> >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
> >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> > On the second day, God created the oceans.
> > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
> >   and did a little diving.
> > And God said, "This is good."
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From heather at livecode.com  Fri Aug  2 13:45:18 2024
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 18:45:18 +0100
Subject: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND 2027!
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycNnG5bNL_GG7z6eB7VkQ3Z45fANBNrjirxQkWwvhUVGEA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>
 <FBBF2716-8A79-4B3B-8DD8-17A054BF188E@mac.com>
 <66C12BFE-0D1D-4FBB-8C9F-EFFCC1CB225A@iotecdigital.com>
 <952B8915-8D46-435A-92D8-F0D6A7EF21EF@mac.com>
 <CADCoycPo9Z53HkYD3Tz0zwJDDVytdnz2=UVKAfjY_hF0Bck-yg@mail.gmail.com>
 <2EE82B11-A48B-409C-91D2-DAB7A7659776@livecode.com>
 <CADCoycNnG5bNL_GG7z6eB7VkQ3Z45fANBNrjirxQkWwvhUVGEA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2886F419-5616-4935-9534-3AF9A8E18B74@livecode.com>

I don't know what you think we are trying to hide.

Do you want to discuss your annual takings on this list? Or the number and needs of your clients? I don't think its relevant to the readers here nor any of their business. We've explained the new licensing, exhaustively. We've said we want to help existing customers. We've said there is a program to help you migrate, on a case by case basis. 

If you want to take us up on that, please do. If not, well  that is your decision. 

Please take this off list. This thread is not helpful and its time for it to stop.

Best Regards,

Heather
List mom. On the Use LiveCode list.


Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 2 Aug 2024, at 18:34, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> sunlight is the greatest disinfectant.
> these are conversations that should be held in the open.
> 
> On Fri, Aug 2, 2024 at 1:10 PM Heather Laine via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> I understand busy. Sometimes we are so busy chopping down trees we cannot
>> see the wood.
>> 
>> You have a specific situation. The people on this list cannot help you
>> resolve it. Talking about it on this list and indeed reading the long
>> conversations on this list is using up your precious time. Maybe taking
>> half an hour to talk about it direct with us would resolve it and
>> potentially save you... I have no idea how long rewriting your apps.
>> 
>> But its entirely up to you.
>> 
>> Best Regards,
>> 
>> Heather
>> 
>> Heather Laine
>> Customer Services Manager
>> LiveCode Ltd
>> www.livecode.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 2 Aug 2024, at 17:21, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> heather, as i told you, at the time, i am busy running multiple
>> companies.
>>> i don't have time for pitches.
>>> i asked for you to send me the information so that i could review it,
>> ahead
>>> of a call. that request was declined.
>>> if the pricing remains untenable, we will be rewriting apps and exiting.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Aug 2, 2024 at 12:01 PM Roger Guay via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> If this is the conclusion that you come to, then I failed to make my
>> case.
>>>> Sorry!
>>>> 
>>>> I thank Kevin for keeping this amazing tool going for so many years and
>>>> want him to succeed in the future.
>>>> 
>>>> Roger
>>>> 
>>>>> On Aug 2, 2024, at 8:17 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> You cannot mean that you want him to go bankrupt so that you can
>>>> maintain your hobby!
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Aug 2, 2024, at 8:17 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Kevin has clearly made the point that it has become financially
>>>> untenable to continue with the classic licensing model. You cannot mean
>>>> that you want him to go bankrupt so that you can maintain your hobby!
>> You
>>>> are asking him for what he cannot give. It only remains then for all of
>> us
>>>> to decide what we can and cannot accept.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bob S
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Aug 2, 2024, at 7:59 AM, Roger Guay via use-livecode <
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I too am in the "Clasic Is For Me Crowd”
>>>>> 
>>>>> - Been here since Metacard
>>>>> - Use LC strictly as a hobby
>>>>> - LC is extremely important to me as a hobby
>>>>> - Have created hundreds of tools, utilities, simulations, fun things
>>>> just for shear enjoyment and mental exercise
>>>>> - Have frequent internet problems that interfere with cloud computing
>>>>> - Have participated in every fundraising campagne
>>>>> - Frequently contributed to Example Stacks including Alien Civilization
>>>> Detection simulation
>>>>> 
>>>>> I beg you, Kevin, don’t take this away from us
>>>>> 
>>>>> Roger
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
>>> On the second day, God created the oceans.
>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>>>  and did a little diving.
>>> And God said, "This is good."
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>   and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Aug  2 14:04:49 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 18:04:49 +0000
Subject: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND 2027!
In-Reply-To: <2886F419-5616-4935-9534-3AF9A8E18B74@livecode.com>
References: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>
 <FBBF2716-8A79-4B3B-8DD8-17A054BF188E@mac.com>
 <66C12BFE-0D1D-4FBB-8C9F-EFFCC1CB225A@iotecdigital.com>
 <952B8915-8D46-435A-92D8-F0D6A7EF21EF@mac.com>
 <CADCoycPo9Z53HkYD3Tz0zwJDDVytdnz2=UVKAfjY_hF0Bck-yg@mail.gmail.com>
 <2EE82B11-A48B-409C-91D2-DAB7A7659776@livecode.com>
 <CADCoycNnG5bNL_GG7z6eB7VkQ3Z45fANBNrjirxQkWwvhUVGEA@mail.gmail.com>
 <2886F419-5616-4935-9534-3AF9A8E18B74@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <AF335E88-F300-4B36-80B4-6BA333455A68@iotecdigital.com>

Yup. +100

> On Aug 2, 2024, at 10:45 AM, Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I don't know what you think we are trying to hide.
> 
> Do you want to discuss your annual takings on this list? Or the number and needs of your clients? I don't think its relevant to the readers here nor any of their business. We've explained the new licensing, exhaustively. We've said we want to help existing customers. We've said there is a program to help you migrate, on a case by case basis. 
> 
> If you want to take us up on that, please do. If not, well  that is your decision. 
> 
> Please take this off list. This thread is not helpful and its time for it to stop.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> List mom. On the Use LiveCode list.
> 
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On 2 Aug 2024, at 18:34, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> sunlight is the greatest disinfectant.
>> these are conversations that should be held in the open.
>> 
>> On Fri, Aug 2, 2024 at 1:10 PM Heather Laine via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I understand busy. Sometimes we are so busy chopping down trees we cannot
>>> see the wood.
>>> 
>>> You have a specific situation. The people on this list cannot help you
>>> resolve it. Talking about it on this list and indeed reading the long
>>> conversations on this list is using up your precious time. Maybe taking
>>> half an hour to talk about it direct with us would resolve it and
>>> potentially save you... I have no idea how long rewriting your apps.
>>> 
>>> But its entirely up to you.
>>> 
>>> Best Regards,
>>> 
>>> Heather
>>> 
>>> Heather Laine
>>> Customer Services Manager
>>> LiveCode Ltd
>>> www.livecode.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 2 Aug 2024, at 17:21, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> heather, as i told you, at the time, i am busy running multiple
>>> companies.
>>>> i don't have time for pitches.
>>>> i asked for you to send me the information so that i could review it,
>>> ahead
>>>> of a call. that request was declined.
>>>> if the pricing remains untenable, we will be rewriting apps and exiting.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Fri, Aug 2, 2024 at 12:01 PM Roger Guay via use-livecode <
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> If this is the conclusion that you come to, then I failed to make my
>>> case.
>>>>> Sorry!
>>>>> 
>>>>> I thank Kevin for keeping this amazing tool going for so many years and
>>>>> want him to succeed in the future.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Roger
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Aug 2, 2024, at 8:17 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> You cannot mean that you want him to go bankrupt so that you can
>>>>> maintain your hobby!
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Aug 2, 2024, at 8:17 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Kevin has clearly made the point that it has become financially
>>>>> untenable to continue with the classic licensing model. You cannot mean
>>>>> that you want him to go bankrupt so that you can maintain your hobby!
>>> You
>>>>> are asking him for what he cannot give. It only remains then for all of
>>> us
>>>>> to decide what we can and cannot accept.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Bob S
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Aug 2, 2024, at 7:59 AM, Roger Guay via use-livecode <
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I too am in the "Clasic Is For Me Crowd”
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> - Been here since Metacard
>>>>>> - Use LC strictly as a hobby
>>>>>> - LC is extremely important to me as a hobby
>>>>>> - Have created hundreds of tools, utilities, simulations, fun things
>>>>> just for shear enjoyment and mental exercise
>>>>>> - Have frequent internet problems that interfere with cloud computing
>>>>>> - Have participated in every fundraising campagne
>>>>>> - Frequently contributed to Example Stacks including Alien Civilization
>>>>> Detection simulation
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I beg you, Kevin, don’t take this away from us
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Roger
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
>>>> On the second day, God created the oceans.
>>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>>>> and did a little diving.
>>>> And God said, "This is good."
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
>> On the second day, God created the oceans.
>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>>  and did a little diving.
>> And God said, "This is good."
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From paul at researchware.com  Fri Aug  2 15:18:09 2024
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 15:18:09 -0400
Subject: By popular demand - Extend access to LC Classic IDEs BEYOND 2027!
In-Reply-To: <AF335E88-F300-4B36-80B4-6BA333455A68@iotecdigital.com>
References: <ca707142-4ffc-40ee-9087-a3c232ed8dd5@pair.com>
 <FBBF2716-8A79-4B3B-8DD8-17A054BF188E@mac.com>
 <66C12BFE-0D1D-4FBB-8C9F-EFFCC1CB225A@iotecdigital.com>
 <952B8915-8D46-435A-92D8-F0D6A7EF21EF@mac.com>
 <CADCoycPo9Z53HkYD3Tz0zwJDDVytdnz2=UVKAfjY_hF0Bck-yg@mail.gmail.com>
 <2EE82B11-A48B-409C-91D2-DAB7A7659776@livecode.com>
 <CADCoycNnG5bNL_GG7z6eB7VkQ3Z45fANBNrjirxQkWwvhUVGEA@mail.gmail.com>
 <2886F419-5616-4935-9534-3AF9A8E18B74@livecode.com>
 <AF335E88-F300-4B36-80B4-6BA333455A68@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <ba1e89d0-3537-498d-a38a-7f4acd5d17ad@researchware.com>

+100 also

On 8/2/2024 2:04 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
> Yup. +100
>
>> On Aug 2, 2024, at 10:45 AM, Heather Laine via use-livecode<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>  wrote:
>>
>> Please take this off list. This thread is not helpful and its time for it to stop.
>>
>>

From curry at pair.com  Mon Aug  5 19:51:04 2024
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2024 19:51:04 -0400
Subject: FAQ Clarification: Which end of 2027?
Message-ID: <d07730d4-17c3-47b5-99cb-1bb28726fc27@pair.com>

The current FAQ says:

- 'When are you ending support for LiveCode Classic? ... we will
maintain compatibility with supported operating systems until 2027.'

That wording is ambiguous. As Ben said:

 > is that Jan 1 2027, or Dec 31 2027?

That is significant - A difference of an entire year!
Can we get a clarification on that?

(This is a general, widely relevant fact in a public FAQ;
it is not only a personal and private account-specific issue.
I may indeed have account-specific or personal case follow-ups,
but it helps, and is standard, to have clear general facts first!)

All other references I see use similar wording:

- 'we haven't changed the licensing for the existing platform which you
can continue to use on the same terms up until its end of life in 2027.'

- 'If you have a current LiveCode license,
LiveCode Classic will continue until 2027'

(This is not a Classic vs Create topic. I enjoyed everyone's views.)

I hope all had a great weekend! :)

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
"PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
https://livecodeconsulting.com/


From tom at makeshyft.com  Mon Aug  5 20:45:00 2024
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2024 20:45:00 -0400
Subject: FAQ Clarification: Which end of 2027?
In-Reply-To: <d07730d4-17c3-47b5-99cb-1bb28726fc27@pair.com>
References: <d07730d4-17c3-47b5-99cb-1bb28726fc27@pair.com>
Message-ID: <CAPzQJL+ZfP17sU0s-kvz5v_n=QrwLz_wWhOVVEbF32WH8xgMyw@mail.gmail.com>

Maybe its your renewal date in 2027, whichever day it falls on.

On Mon, Aug 5, 2024 at 7:52 PM Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> The current FAQ says:
>
> - 'When are you ending support for LiveCode Classic? ... we will
> maintain compatibility with supported operating systems until 2027.'
>
> That wording is ambiguous. As Ben said:
>
>  > is that Jan 1 2027, or Dec 31 2027?
>
> That is significant - A difference of an entire year!
> Can we get a clarification on that?
>
> (This is a general, widely relevant fact in a public FAQ;
> it is not only a personal and private account-specific issue.
> I may indeed have account-specific or personal case follow-ups,
> but it helps, and is standard, to have clear general facts first!)
>
> All other references I see use similar wording:
>
> - 'we haven't changed the licensing for the existing platform which you
> can continue to use on the same terms up until its end of life in 2027.'
>
> - 'If you have a current LiveCode license,
> LiveCode Classic will continue until 2027'
>
> (This is not a Classic vs Create topic. I enjoyed everyone's views.)
>
> I hope all had a great weekend! :)
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Curry Kenworthy
>
> Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
> "PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
> https://livecodeconsulting.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From dfe4 at cornell.edu  Tue Aug  6 14:20:33 2024
From: dfe4 at cornell.edu (David Epstein)
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2024 14:20:33 -0400
Subject: Making controls less subtle
Message-ID: <3E51E333-A74A-4029-BC4A-813A5465503D@cornell.edu>

On my Mac, some LiveCode (10.0rc1) controls seem to me much too subtle, light gray where I would like there to be a distinct black line.  The  “slider” control looks to me as if it is disabled (although if I actually disable it, it gets even dimmer).  And the circle of the radio button, the rounded rectangle of a check box button, and the edges of an option button have this same light gray color.

Is there some way to change this?  

David Epstein


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Tue Aug  6 15:26:20 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2024 19:26:20 +0000
Subject: Making controls less subtle
In-Reply-To: <3E51E333-A74A-4029-BC4A-813A5465503D@cornell.edu>
References: <3E51E333-A74A-4029-BC4A-813A5465503D@cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <B3A1E1C1-44E1-4DFB-A8F4-0E92E179C73B@iotecdigital.com>

With the Widgets, probably not. They are supposed to comply with the interface standards of your OS, so if running Windows, try using a high contrast window setting, but you won’t like it. 

Bob S

> On Aug 6, 2024, at 11:20 AM, David Epstein via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> On my Mac, some LiveCode (10.0rc1) controls seem to me much too subtle, light gray where I would like there to be a distinct black line.  The  “slider” control looks to me as if it is disabled (although if I actually disable it, it gets even dimmer).  And the circle of the radio button, the rounded rectangle of a check box button, and the edges of an option button have this same light gray color.
> 
> Is there some way to change this?  
> 
> David Epstein
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From kevin at livecode.com  Wed Aug  7 05:12:25 2024
From: kevin at livecode.com (Kevin Miller)
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2024 10:12:25 +0100
Subject: FAQ Clarification: Which end of 2027?
In-Reply-To: <d07730d4-17c3-47b5-99cb-1bb28726fc27@pair.com>
References: <d07730d4-17c3-47b5-99cb-1bb28726fc27@pair.com>
Message-ID: <801446DC-D963-415A-A917-ED7088D91F73@livecode.com>

I don't have any more information on the date in 2027 yet. It’s a long way off. Let's see how many of you are actually still using it at that point and truly haven't moved and how well we've done from Create - i.e. what we can afford.

Kind regards, 

Kevin 

Kevin Miller ~ kevin at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ 
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things 




On 06/08/2024, 00:51, "use-livecode on behalf of Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode" <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> on behalf of use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:


The current FAQ says:


- 'When are you ending support for LiveCode Classic? ... we will
maintain compatibility with supported operating systems until 2027.'


That wording is ambiguous. As Ben said:


> is that Jan 1 2027, or Dec 31 2027?


That is significant - A difference of an entire year!
Can we get a clarification on that?


(This is a general, widely relevant fact in a public FAQ;
it is not only a personal and private account-specific issue.
I may indeed have account-specific or personal case follow-ups,
but it helps, and is standard, to have clear general facts first!)


All other references I see use similar wording:


- 'we haven't changed the licensing for the existing platform which you
can continue to use on the same terms up until its end of life in 2027.'


- 'If you have a current LiveCode license,
LiveCode Classic will continue until 2027'


(This is not a Classic vs Create topic. I enjoyed everyone's views.)


I hope all had a great weekend! :)


Best wishes,


Curry Kenworthy


Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
"PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
https://livecodeconsulting.com/ <https://livecodeconsulting.com/>


_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode <http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode>






From kevin at livecode.com  Wed Aug  7 05:12:27 2024
From: kevin at livecode.com (Kevin Miller)
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2024 10:12:27 +0100
Subject: Open Letter to Community
Message-ID: <C4D3B07F-3015-47E5-91DF-129E50ABB3B1@livecode.com>

Hi folks,

 

Some of you will have seen this as it went out by email yesterday. However I know for whatever reason not all of you get our emails so I’m going to post this here for those that haven’t seen it. I think it’s important to set the record straight.

 

https://livecode.com/an-open-letter-to-the-community/

 

I don’t mind a little bit of feedback on this if you want to share it but after that I think we need to get back to discussing how to use the product on this list and move licensing discussions to direct contact.

 

Kind regards,

 

Kevin

 

Kevin Miller ~ kevin at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/

LiveCode: Build Amazing Things

 


From curry at pair.com  Wed Aug  7 07:29:21 2024
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2024 07:29:21 -0400
Subject: Open Letter to Community - 22nd August deadline?
In-Reply-To: <C4D3B07F-3015-47E5-91DF-129E50ABB3B1@livecode.com>
References: <C4D3B07F-3015-47E5-91DF-129E50ABB3B1@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <32f7aacd-39ce-4118-9740-cea41554296c@pair.com>

Kevin -

I'm glad you posted this; I was going to mention it here, because -

'We will continue to work with the rest of you to get something that
can work for both of us. Please get in touch during transition
period, i.e. prior to 22nd August.'

Clarification -

Is 22nd August a deadline for transition issue questions and requests?
If so, I don't think people will notice, without it in a subject line!

It's very short notice for a deadline - if it is one?

(I sent extra questions to support after seeing that,
but rushing is difficult, and may cause confusion -
Some questions or requests depend on answers to other questions!)

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
"PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
https://livecodeconsulting.com/


From paul at researchware.com  Wed Aug  7 12:04:42 2024
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2024 12:04:42 -0400
Subject: Best way to convert color values
Message-ID: <70c1aa0b-489b-4c21-98f4-696de79f98b8@researchware.com>

You have RGB colors (0-255,0-255,0-255), Hex colors (#000000 - #FFFFFF) 
and named colors ("blue") in Livecode

Any built in way (via some trick) to convert between color value formats?

I can always write a routine to convert RGB to Hex and Hex to RGB, but I 
am wondering if there is some clever trick in Livecode to do this.

For example: answer color -- returns RGB, but the htmlText of a line 
wants <p bgcolor="#NNNNNN"> </p>

Thanks in advance,


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Wed Aug  7 12:14:02 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2024 16:14:02 +0000
Subject: Best way to convert color values
In-Reply-To: <70c1aa0b-489b-4c21-98f4-696de79f98b8@researchware.com>
References: <70c1aa0b-489b-4c21-98f4-696de79f98b8@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <03D070ED-D321-48BA-8F4F-037B9150E07D@iotecdigital.com>

I found a private function in the Quartam PDF Library. I don’t want to post it here because I don’t know the licensing. I believe it was a purchased product. If you have it you can probably find it. Otherwise it shouldn’t be too difficult to do the math. 

Bob S


> On Aug 7, 2024, at 9:04 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> You have RGB colors (0-255,0-255,0-255), Hex colors (#000000 - #FFFFFF) and named colors ("blue") in Livecode
> 
> Any built in way (via some trick) to convert between color value formats?
> 
> I can always write a routine to convert RGB to Hex and Hex to RGB, but I am wondering if there is some clever trick in Livecode to do this.
> 
> For example: answer color -- returns RGB, but the htmlText of a line wants <p bgcolor="#NNNNNN"> </p>
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From craig at starfirelighting.com  Wed Aug  7 12:16:37 2024
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2024 12:16:37 -0400
Subject: Best way to convert color values
In-Reply-To: <70c1aa0b-489b-4c21-98f4-696de79f98b8@researchware.com>
References: <70c1aa0b-489b-4c21-98f4-696de79f98b8@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <20181D55-F300-4EA8-BD2B-F5FA7070C677@starfirelighting.com>

Hi.

If Paul’s post is not viable, I don’t think there is any native gadget (like “convert”) that applies to the different color formats. Fairly simple to roll your own, depending on how comprehensive you need it.

Craig

> On Aug 7, 2024, at 12:04 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> You have RGB colors (0-255,0-255,0-255), Hex colors (#000000 - #FFFFFF) and named colors ("blue") in Livecode
> 
> Any built in way (via some trick) to convert between color value formats?
> 
> I can always write a routine to convert RGB to Hex and Hex to RGB, but I am wondering if there is some clever trick in Livecode to do this.
> 
> For example: answer color -- returns RGB, but the htmlText of a line wants <p bgcolor="#NNNNNN"> </p>
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com  Wed Aug  7 12:24:31 2024
From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2024 18:24:31 +0200
Subject: Best way to convert color values
In-Reply-To: <20181D55-F300-4EA8-BD2B-F5FA7070C677@starfirelighting.com>
References: <70c1aa0b-489b-4c21-98f4-696de79f98b8@researchware.com>
 <20181D55-F300-4EA8-BD2B-F5FA7070C677@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <CAGu-FtbvwGNt3B=ETcsUpmvrNJHuGHPfgqZ5E8N22ngjFff_Ow@mail.gmail.com>

No need to reinvent that particular wheel when the awesome guys at
FerrusLogic has had us covered for years:
https://github.com/Ferruslogic/TinyColor

/Andreas

ons 7 aug. 2024 kl. 18:18 skrev Craig Newman via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:

> Hi.
>
> If Paul’s post is not viable, I don’t think there is any native gadget
> (like “convert”) that applies to the different color formats. Fairly simple
> to roll your own, depending on how comprehensive you need it.
>
> Craig
>
> > On Aug 7, 2024, at 12:04 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > You have RGB colors (0-255,0-255,0-255), Hex colors (#000000 - #FFFFFF)
> and named colors ("blue") in Livecode
> >
> > Any built in way (via some trick) to convert between color value formats?
> >
> > I can always write a routine to convert RGB to Hex and Hex to RGB, but I
> am wondering if there is some clever trick in Livecode to do this.
> >
> > For example: answer color -- returns RGB, but the htmlText of a line
> wants <p bgcolor="#NNNNNN"> </p>
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Wed Aug  7 12:30:26 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2024 16:30:26 +0000
Subject: Best way to convert color values
In-Reply-To: <70c1aa0b-489b-4c21-98f4-696de79f98b8@researchware.com>
References: <70c1aa0b-489b-4c21-98f4-696de79f98b8@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <DD251D8C-5C73-400B-B016-6A1095CEC6A2@iotecdigital.com>

Also https://dev.to/hichem-mg/comprehensive-guide-converting-rgb-color-to-hex-code-2fcb

Google is your friend. :-)

Bob S


On Aug 7, 2024, at 9:04 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

You have RGB colors (0-255,0-255,0-255), Hex colors (#000000 - #FFFFFF) and named colors ("blue") in Livecode

Any built in way (via some trick) to convert between color value formats?

I can always write a routine to convert RGB to Hex and Hex to RGB, but I am wondering if there is some clever trick in Livecode to do this.

For example: answer color -- returns RGB, but the htmlText of a line wants <p bgcolor="#NNNNNN"> </p>

Thanks in advance,

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From paul at researchware.com  Wed Aug  7 12:33:19 2024
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2024 12:33:19 -0400
Subject: Best way to convert color values
In-Reply-To: <CAGu-FtbvwGNt3B=ETcsUpmvrNJHuGHPfgqZ5E8N22ngjFff_Ow@mail.gmail.com>
References: <70c1aa0b-489b-4c21-98f4-696de79f98b8@researchware.com>
 <20181D55-F300-4EA8-BD2B-F5FA7070C677@starfirelighting.com>
 <CAGu-FtbvwGNt3B=ETcsUpmvrNJHuGHPfgqZ5E8N22ngjFff_Ow@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <484fe9fd-a6a6-40d1-a9c1-9a9168ae612a@researchware.com>

Wow Andreas!

You win on the best response!

A free library of 70 color functions is way more than I need (but will 
likely need more than I think I do)

Thank you.

On 8/7/2024 12:24 PM, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode wrote:
> No need to reinvent that particular wheel when the awesome guys at
> FerrusLogic has had us covered for years:
> https://github.com/Ferruslogic/TinyColor
>
> /Andreas
>
> ons 7 aug. 2024 kl. 18:18 skrev Craig Newman via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>
>> Hi.
>>
>> If Pauls post is not viable, I dont think there is any native gadget
>> (like convert) that applies to the different color formats. Fairly simple
>> to roll your own, depending on how comprehensive you need it.
>>
>> Craig
>>
>>> On Aug 7, 2024, at 12:04 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> You have RGB colors (0-255,0-255,0-255), Hex colors (#000000 - #FFFFFF)
>> and named colors ("blue") in Livecode
>>> Any built in way (via some trick) to convert between color value formats?
>>>
>>> I can always write a routine to convert RGB to Hex and Hex to RGB, but I
>> am wondering if there is some clever trick in Livecode to do this.
>>> For example: answer color -- returns RGB, but the htmlText of a line
>> wants <p bgcolor="#NNNNNN"> </p>
>>> Thanks in advance,
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From paul at researchware.com  Wed Aug  7 13:47:12 2024
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2024 13:47:12 -0400
Subject: Cell colorization in a table in Livecode...
Message-ID: <8fb662aa-fdd5-4d58-b34f-46649a6c0682@researchware.com>

My second color question of the day.

We current have a analytical view in our app which shows a table of 
frequencies. The number of rows and columns are driven by user data and 
can becomes a large number (I've heard all the arguments that users 
should not ever view tables of hundreds of rows by hundreds of columns 
as a person can't digest that much data - and our customer are quite 
clear that they want to view such data in this fashion).

We currently use a Datagrid. Each cell has a numerical integer value, 
0-n. We want to colorize the cells on a gradient, say from white to 
green (as an example) which we'd map the gradient colors with 0 being 
white and max(N) being green and color each cell accordingly.

This can be done relatively easily in the Datagrid by a small bit of 
custom code that looks at the cell value and sets the background color 
of the field (that is the cell) to the appropriate color.

We have been migrating all uses of Datagrids to Polygrids where the 
columns are driven by user data since the number of columns could exceed 
roughly 300, which at the default column width,  bumps up against the 
32,767 pixel width limit of the Datagrid. The Polygrid does not have 
this width limit, which is why we've been replacing Datagrids with 
Polygrids.

Now, our current problem is that there does not appear to be any tricks 
to having variable cell background colors in a Polygrid. Row colors: yes 
Alternate Row colors: Yes, Highlight color: Yes, possibly even 
highlighting different cell via the pgHilitedData property: maybe 
(haven't tested yet, but they'd all be 1 color).

I am not really familiar with the PolyList widget (vs PolyGrid). Has 
anyone figured out how to do a spreadsheet-like table in either the 
PolyGrid or PolyList with individual cell background coloring?

If not, I'll stick with the Datagrid and add a check for the columns x 
widths exceeding the 32K px threshold and just warn the researcher we 
can't handler that much data (which dings our product vs competition!)



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Aug  7 14:14:08 2024
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2024 18:14:08 +0000
Subject: Best way to convert color values
Message-ID: <1c7699e21085f1e95e3eea7f8d6a6bc984378c64@fourthworld.com>

Paul Dupuis wrote:

> I can always write a routine to convert RGB to Hex and Hex to RGB, but
> I am wondering if there is some clever trick in Livecode to do this.
>
> For example: answer color -- returns RGB, but the htmlText of a line
> wants <p bgcolor="#NNNNNN"> </p>


If the target of the htmlText is a LiveCode field, I don't know of a method built into the LC engine, but it's easy enough to script:

function RGBtoHex pColor
   repeat for each item tVal in pColor
      get baseConvert(tVal, 10, 16)
      if len(it) < 2 then put 0 before it
      put it after tHex
   end repeat
   return "#"& tHex
end RGBtoHex


If the target of the htmlText is a browser widget, the browser engine's built-in "rgb" CSS function can do this:

<html>
  <div style="background-color:rgb(130,30,230)"> Hello </div>
</html>

--
Richard Gaskin
FourthWorld.com


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Wed Aug  7 14:17:41 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2024 18:17:41 +0000
Subject: Cell colorization in a table in Livecode...
In-Reply-To: <8fb662aa-fdd5-4d58-b34f-46649a6c0682@researchware.com>
References: <8fb662aa-fdd5-4d58-b34f-46649a6c0682@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <F0F12D58-8011-4F5C-92F4-727BC6648B44@iotecdigital.com>



On Aug 7, 2024, at 10:47 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

Now, our current problem is that there does not appear to be any tricks to having variable cell background colors in a Polygrid. Row colors: yes Alternate Row colors: Yes, Highlight color: Yes, possibly even highlighting different cell via the pgHilitedData property: maybe (haven't tested yet, but they'd all be 1 color).

I am not really familiar with the PolyList widget (vs PolyGrid). Has anyone figured out how to do a spreadsheet-like table in either the PolyGrid or PolyList with individual cell background coloring?

If not, I'll stick with the Datagrid and add a check for the columns x widths exceeding the 32K px threshold and just warn the researcher we can't handler that much data (which dings our product vs competition!)


Right. That has been the problem with widgets that are meant to replace native controls all along. They do not work the way the native controls work, and they don’t have the extensive property list that the native control had. Take the Custom Property Editor itself. It is actually uses a Tree List widget, which is fine except that there is this anooying need to click something you just edited again after it was already selected. The old Property Editor did not do that.

The Segmented Control was meant to replace the Tab Panel, but try setting the widths of the tabs using a comma separated list of integers and you will have issues.  I had to create buttons that I place over each tab “segment” and put it all in a group because the widget does not handle mouseUps. In fact, I do not think any widgets handle mouseUps! I could be mistaken.

Als while they look great, (the old Tab Panel lokked like warmed over dog cr*p on Windows) their options for modification via script are usually less than the native object they were meant to produce.

Bob S


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Wed Aug  7 14:20:35 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2024 18:20:35 +0000
Subject: Cell colorization in a table in Livecode...
In-Reply-To: <F0F12D58-8011-4F5C-92F4-727BC6648B44@iotecdigital.com>
References: <8fb662aa-fdd5-4d58-b34f-46649a6c0682@researchware.com>
 <F0F12D58-8011-4F5C-92F4-727BC6648B44@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <2D8C8D7E-38F5-45FD-B825-BEFD2A5BC3AF@iotecdigital.com>

<note to self: spell and grammar check before posting. Sheesh!>

Bob S


On Aug 7, 2024, at 11:17 AM, Bob Sneidar <bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com> wrote:



On Aug 7, 2024, at 10:47 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

Now, our current problem is that there does not appear to be any tricks to having variable cell background colors in a Polygrid. Row colors: yes Alternate Row colors: Yes, Highlight color: Yes, possibly even highlighting different cell via the pgHilitedData property: maybe (haven't tested yet, but they'd all be 1 color).

I am not really familiar with the PolyList widget (vs PolyGrid). Has anyone figured out how to do a spreadsheet-like table in either the PolyGrid or PolyList with individual cell background coloring?

If not, I'll stick with the Datagrid and add a check for the columns x widths exceeding the 32K px threshold and just warn the researcher we can't handler that much data (which dings our product vs competition!)


Right. That has been the problem with widgets that are meant to replace native controls all along. They do not work the way the native controls work, and they don’t have the extensive property list that the native control had. Take the Custom Property Editor itself. It is actually uses a Tree List widget, which is fine except that there is this anooying need to click something you just edited again after it was already selected. The old Property Editor did not do that.

The Segmented Control was meant to replace the Tab Panel, but try setting the widths of the tabs using a comma separated list of integers and you will have issues.  I had to create buttons that I place over each tab “segment” and put it all in a group because the widget does not handle mouseUps. In fact, I do not think any widgets handle mouseUps! I could be mistaken.

Als while they look great, (the old Tab Panel lokked like warmed over dog cr*p on Windows) their options for modification via script are usually less than the native object they were meant to produce.

Bob S



From dan at clearvisiontech.com  Wed Aug  7 15:33:51 2024
From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2024 19:33:51 +0000
Subject: iOS App Crashing On Close
In-Reply-To: <2D8C8D7E-38F5-45FD-B825-BEFD2A5BC3AF@iotecdigital.com>
References: <8fb662aa-fdd5-4d58-b34f-46649a6c0682@researchware.com>
 <F0F12D58-8011-4F5C-92F4-727BC6648B44@iotecdigital.com>
 <2D8C8D7E-38F5-45FD-B825-BEFD2A5BC3AF@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <SN7PR12MB8028ACDCBC0064708AAA479AB9B82@SN7PR12MB8028.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>

I have an app that has been humming along just fine in the app store.  I updated the app to 10.0.0 (rc1) and it’s now in TestFlight.   When I close the app from the OS (swipe up from bottom of phone and then swipe app up to exit it), I get this message:

“MyAppName” – Crashed
Do you want to share additional information with the developer?

Details about the crash in TestFlight (date, time, build, device model, etc.) seem useless.   I looked at the crash log in Xcode, but it too seems to just list the threads and hex values.  For example, the highlighted red line in the Crash List (in Xcode) shows:   MyAppName: 0x104a6c000 + 634716

Interesting thing is if I call “quit” in a button, I don’t get the crash.

Any thoughts?

-Dan

From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Wed Aug  7 16:59:35 2024
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2024 21:59:35 +0100
Subject: iOS App Crashing On Close
In-Reply-To: <SN7PR12MB8028ACDCBC0064708AAA479AB9B82@SN7PR12MB8028.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
References: <8fb662aa-fdd5-4d58-b34f-46649a6c0682@researchware.com>
 <F0F12D58-8011-4F5C-92F4-727BC6648B44@iotecdigital.com>
 <2D8C8D7E-38F5-45FD-B825-BEFD2A5BC3AF@iotecdigital.com>
 <SN7PR12MB8028ACDCBC0064708AAA479AB9B82@SN7PR12MB8028.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <FED482FD-9297-43E0-8D1F-89457F69A346@gmail.com>

Hi Dan,

Just a random thought that might help orient you to a potential problem… how are you handling the closeStackRequest (or closeStack) message? “Quit” in a button obviously bypasses these. Odd that the problem would just start showing up in 10.0.0 although I do remember reading somewhere that the implementation of Monte’s mergeNotify which contained the message UIApplicationWillResignActiveNotification had been revised at some point, but can’t find any reference to it now.  Sorry if that doesn’t help. Just some random thoughts that popped into my head while reading of your problem. 

Mark

> On 7 Aug 2024, at 8:33 PM, Dan Friedman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I have an app that has been humming along just fine in the app store.  I updated the app to 10.0.0 (rc1) and it’s now in TestFlight.   When I close the app from the OS (swipe up from bottom of phone and then swipe app up to exit it), I get this message:
> 
> “MyAppName” – Crashed
> Do you want to share additional information with the developer?
> 
> Details about the crash in TestFlight (date, time, build, device model, etc.) seem useless.   I looked at the crash log in Xcode, but it too seems to just list the threads and hex values.  For example, the highlighted red line in the Crash List (in Xcode) shows:   MyAppName: 0x104a6c000 + 634716
> 
> Interesting thing is if I call “quit” in a button, I don’t get the crash.
> 
> Any thoughts?
> 
> -Dan
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From dan at clearvisiontech.com  Wed Aug  7 17:07:06 2024
From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2024 21:07:06 +0000
Subject: iOS App Crashing On Close
In-Reply-To: <FED482FD-9297-43E0-8D1F-89457F69A346@gmail.com>
References: <8fb662aa-fdd5-4d58-b34f-46649a6c0682@researchware.com>
 <F0F12D58-8011-4F5C-92F4-727BC6648B44@iotecdigital.com>
 <2D8C8D7E-38F5-45FD-B825-BEFD2A5BC3AF@iotecdigital.com>
 <SN7PR12MB8028ACDCBC0064708AAA479AB9B82@SN7PR12MB8028.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
 <FED482FD-9297-43E0-8D1F-89457F69A346@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SN7PR12MB80287D90DB99184D6D7478C5B9B82@SN7PR12MB8028.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>

Mark,

Thank you for the reply and thoughts!   I am not using closeStack or closeStackRequest anywhere in my project.   I am using shutdown and shutdownRequest but those calls have not changed since moving from 10.0.0 (dp 8) to 10.0.0 (rc1).   Also, I am not using mergeNotify (or have it included) in the build.

Maybe Panos will have some ideas?

-Dan



From: Mark Smith <marksmithhfx at gmail.com>
Date: Wednesday, August 7, 2024 at 2:00 PM
To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Cc: Dan Friedman <dan at clearvisiontech.com>
Subject: Re: iOS App Crashing On Close
Hi Dan,

Just a random thought that might help orient you to a potential problem… how are you handling the closeStackRequest (or closeStack) message? “Quit” in a button obviously bypasses these. Odd that the problem would just start showing up in 10.0.0 although I do remember reading somewhere that the implementation of Monte’s mergeNotify which contained the message UIApplicationWillResignActiveNotification had been revised at some point, but can’t find any reference to it now.  Sorry if that doesn’t help. Just some random thoughts that popped into my head while reading of your problem.

Mark

> On 7 Aug 2024, at 8:33 PM, Dan Friedman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> I have an app that has been humming along just fine in the app store.  I updated the app to 10.0.0 (rc1) and it’s now in TestFlight.   When I close the app from the OS (swipe up from bottom of phone and then swipe app up to exit it), I get this message:
>
> “MyAppName” – Crashed
> Do you want to share additional information with the developer?
>
> Details about the crash in TestFlight (date, time, build, device model, etc.) seem useless.   I looked at the crash log in Xcode, but it too seems to just list the threads and hex values.  For example, the highlighted red line in the Crash List (in Xcode) shows:   MyAppName: 0x104a6c000 + 634716
>
> Interesting thing is if I call “quit” in a button, I don’t get the crash.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> -Dan
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Wed Aug  7 20:57:07 2024
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2024 01:57:07 +0100
Subject: iOS App Crashing On Close
In-Reply-To: <SN7PR12MB80287D90DB99184D6D7478C5B9B82@SN7PR12MB8028.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
References: <8fb662aa-fdd5-4d58-b34f-46649a6c0682@researchware.com>
 <F0F12D58-8011-4F5C-92F4-727BC6648B44@iotecdigital.com>
 <2D8C8D7E-38F5-45FD-B825-BEFD2A5BC3AF@iotecdigital.com>
 <SN7PR12MB8028ACDCBC0064708AAA479AB9B82@SN7PR12MB8028.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
 <FED482FD-9297-43E0-8D1F-89457F69A346@gmail.com>
 <SN7PR12MB80287D90DB99184D6D7478C5B9B82@SN7PR12MB8028.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <0878A370-0515-4487-99B3-0DFA63C25CEE@gmail.com>

Hi Dan, 

Just to followup, I’ve not experienced the crash you mentioned but I do remember going through a lengthy trial and error process trying to figure out which messages are sent, and when, in response to closing the app the way you describe. I think I discovered, at least I noted this as a comment In my code, that the shutdown and shutdownrequest messages are not sent to mobile devices, at least they weren’t when I was testing some years ago. Things may have changed since then. Instead I used closeStack and closeStackRequest which appear to work reliably. (But I have not tested with 10.0.0 (rc1)). Hope it helps. 

But let’s hope Panos can shine more light on this (as I often feel like I am walking around in LC with a blindfold on. Note: the documentation appears to shine no light on this situation). 

Best,
Mark

> On 7 Aug 2024, at 10:07 PM, Dan Friedman <dan at clearvisiontech.com> wrote:
> 
> Mark,
>  
> Thank you for the reply and thoughts!   I am not using closeStack or closeStackRequest anywhere in my project.   I am using shutdown and shutdownRequest but those calls have not changed since moving from 10.0.0 (dp 8) to 10.0.0 (rc1).   Also, I am not using mergeNotify (or have it included) in the build.
>  
> Maybe Panos will have some ideas?
>  
> -Dan
>  
>  
>  
> From: Mark Smith <marksmithhfx at gmail.com>
> Date: Wednesday, August 7, 2024 at 2:00 PM
> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Cc: Dan Friedman <dan at clearvisiontech.com>
> Subject: Re: iOS App Crashing On Close
> 
> Hi Dan,
> 
> Just a random thought that might help orient you to a potential problem… how are you handling the closeStackRequest (or closeStack) message? “Quit” in a button obviously bypasses these. Odd that the problem would just start showing up in 10.0.0 although I do remember reading somewhere that the implementation of Monte’s mergeNotify which contained the message UIApplicationWillResignActiveNotification had been revised at some point, but can’t find any reference to it now.  Sorry if that doesn’t help. Just some random thoughts that popped into my head while reading of your problem. 
> 
> Mark
> 
> > On 7 Aug 2024, at 8:33 PM, Dan Friedman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > 
> > I have an app that has been humming along just fine in the app store.  I updated the app to 10.0.0 (rc1) and it’s now in TestFlight.   When I close the app from the OS (swipe up from bottom of phone and then swipe app up to exit it), I get this message:
> > 
> > “MyAppName” – Crashed
> > Do you want to share additional information with the developer?
> > 
> > Details about the crash in TestFlight (date, time, build, device model, etc.) seem useless.   I looked at the crash log in Xcode, but it too seems to just list the threads and hex values.  For example, the highlighted red line in the Crash List (in Xcode) shows:   MyAppName: 0x104a6c000 + 634716
> > 
> > Interesting thing is if I call “quit” in a button, I don’t get the crash.
> > 
> > Any thoughts?
> > 
> > -Dan
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 


From martyknappster at gmail.com  Wed Aug  7 23:59:06 2024
From: martyknappster at gmail.com (Marty Knapp)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2024 20:59:06 -0700
Subject: macOS Sequoia beta
Message-ID: <1332BBC2-A99C-4256-A0E1-C08937501009@gmail.com>

Curious if anyone has tested LC on the macOS Sequoia beta and if so, have you found anything of concern?

---
Marty Knapp

From merakosp at gmail.com  Thu Aug  8 05:14:45 2024
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2024 12:14:45 +0300
Subject: iOS App Crashing On Close
In-Reply-To: <0878A370-0515-4487-99B3-0DFA63C25CEE@gmail.com>
References: <8fb662aa-fdd5-4d58-b34f-46649a6c0682@researchware.com>
 <F0F12D58-8011-4F5C-92F4-727BC6648B44@iotecdigital.com>
 <2D8C8D7E-38F5-45FD-B825-BEFD2A5BC3AF@iotecdigital.com>
 <SN7PR12MB8028ACDCBC0064708AAA479AB9B82@SN7PR12MB8028.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
 <FED482FD-9297-43E0-8D1F-89457F69A346@gmail.com>
 <SN7PR12MB80287D90DB99184D6D7478C5B9B82@SN7PR12MB8028.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
 <0878A370-0515-4487-99B3-0DFA63C25CEE@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq988ZbpenKTtJ=VXzt=ymH=05sa5H5VCipC4_ScRNJZig@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Dan and Mark,

Hmm, interesting, I cannot think of anything we changed from 10 DP-8 to 10
RC-1 that could have caused this on iOS. Is the app doing anything when it
is in the background (e.g. playing background audio or such)?

In any case, I think the best way to get this resolved is to send us the
crash log to see if we can symbolicate it and/or send us directly the
sample stack that exhibits the problem.

Kind regards,
Panos
--

On Thu, 8 Aug 2024 at 03:58, Mark Smith via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Dan,
>
> Just to followup, I’ve not experienced the crash you mentioned but I do
> remember going through a lengthy trial and error process trying to figure
> out which messages are sent, and when, in response to closing the app the
> way you describe. I think I discovered, at least I noted this as a comment
> In my code, that the shutdown and shutdownrequest messages are not sent to
> mobile devices, at least they weren’t when I was testing some years ago.
> Things may have changed since then. Instead I used closeStack and
> closeStackRequest which appear to work reliably. (But I have not tested
> with 10.0.0 (rc1)). Hope it helps.
>
> But let’s hope Panos can shine more light on this (as I often feel like I
> am walking around in LC with a blindfold on. Note: the documentation
> appears to shine no light on this situation).
>
> Best,
> Mark
>
> > On 7 Aug 2024, at 10:07 PM, Dan Friedman <dan at clearvisiontech.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Mark,
> >
> > Thank you for the reply and thoughts!   I am not using closeStack or
> closeStackRequest anywhere in my project.   I am using shutdown and
> shutdownRequest but those calls have not changed since moving from 10.0.0
> (dp 8) to 10.0.0 (rc1).   Also, I am not using mergeNotify (or have it
> included) in the build.
> >
> > Maybe Panos will have some ideas?
> >
> > -Dan
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Mark Smith <marksmithhfx at gmail.com>
> > Date: Wednesday, August 7, 2024 at 2:00 PM
> > To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> > Cc: Dan Friedman <dan at clearvisiontech.com>
> > Subject: Re: iOS App Crashing On Close
> >
> > Hi Dan,
> >
> > Just a random thought that might help orient you to a potential problem…
> how are you handling the closeStackRequest (or closeStack) message? “Quit”
> in a button obviously bypasses these. Odd that the problem would just start
> showing up in 10.0.0 although I do remember reading somewhere that the
> implementation of Monte’s mergeNotify which contained the message
> UIApplicationWillResignActiveNotification had been revised at some point,
> but can’t find any reference to it now.  Sorry if that doesn’t help. Just
> some random thoughts that popped into my head while reading of your
> problem.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> > > On 7 Aug 2024, at 8:33 PM, Dan Friedman via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > I have an app that has been humming along just fine in the app store.
> I updated the app to 10.0.0 (rc1) and it’s now in TestFlight.   When I
> close the app from the OS (swipe up from bottom of phone and then swipe app
> up to exit it), I get this message:
> > >
> > > “MyAppName” – Crashed
> > > Do you want to share additional information with the developer?
> > >
> > > Details about the crash in TestFlight (date, time, build, device
> model, etc.) seem useless.   I looked at the crash log in Xcode, but it too
> seems to just list the threads and hex values.  For example, the
> highlighted red line in the Crash List (in Xcode) shows:   MyAppName:
> 0x104a6c000 + 634716
> > >
> > > Interesting thing is if I call “quit” in a button, I don’t get the
> crash.
> > >
> > > Any thoughts?
> > >
> > > -Dan
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > use-livecode mailing list
> > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From phil at liverpool.ac.uk  Thu Aug  8 05:22:21 2024
From: phil at liverpool.ac.uk (Jimmieson, Phil)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2024 09:22:21 +0000
Subject: Export snapshot - is it usable on LiveCode web apps?
Message-ID: <1DA5481F-8C90-4F6A-8F8C-986D6E959817@liverpool.ac.uk>

Hi folks,
I’m experimenting with converting one of my LiveCode iPad Apps into a web version, to see how well it works, but there’s an issue that seems to be a deal-breaker. My iPad app takes a screenshot of the LiveCode stack when the user navigates away from the main card, so that the image can be used elsewhere in the app. This works fine on iPad, but I noticed that the web version of the app generates a javascript exception when I try to leave the main card. On checking the dictionary, I noticed that the export snapshot command is not listed as being supported on web. Is this correct? If so, is there an alternative that will work for web?

Thanks

--
Phil Jimmieson (He/Him)
University of Liverpool, Computer Science Department
Ashton Bldg, Ashton Street, Liverpool. L69 3BX
0151 795 4236


From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com  Thu Aug  8 08:23:23 2024
From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2024 14:23:23 +0200
Subject: Export snapshot - is it usable on LiveCode web apps?
In-Reply-To: <1DA5481F-8C90-4F6A-8F8C-986D6E959817@liverpool.ac.uk>
References: <1DA5481F-8C90-4F6A-8F8C-986D6E959817@liverpool.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <CAGu-Ftabrb2Q07xhAQxQpXAeZ-69iSaWSyUTOs+Sn7zft2290Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Phil,

I believe it’s correct that export snapshot is currently not supported on
web (with LiveCode 10, don’t know about Create).

I tried to find a solution some time ago, but didn’t have time to
experiment enough.

One of the methods in this article might be useful:
https://hackernoon.com/how-to-take-screenshots-in-the-browser-using-javascript-l92k3xq7

I might revisit this challenge when back from vacation. If you find a
solution I’d be interested to learn it.

/Andreas

tors 8 aug. 2024 kl. 11:23 skrev Jimmieson, Phil via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:

> Hi folks,
> I’m experimenting with converting one of my LiveCode iPad Apps into a web
> version, to see how well it works, but there’s an issue that seems to be a
> deal-breaker. My iPad app takes a screenshot of the LiveCode stack when the
> user navigates away from the main card, so that the image can be used
> elsewhere in the app. This works fine on iPad, but I noticed that the web
> version of the app generates a javascript exception when I try to leave the
> main card. On checking the dictionary, I noticed that the export snapshot
> command is not listed as being supported on web. Is this correct? If so, is
> there an alternative that will work for web?
>
> Thanks
>
> --
> Phil Jimmieson (He/Him)
> University of Liverpool, Computer Science Department
> Ashton Bldg, Ashton Street, Liverpool. L69 3BX
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/Ashton+Street,+Liverpool.+L69+3BX?entry=gmail&source=g>
> 0151 795 4236
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From mark at livecode.com  Thu Aug  8 08:39:00 2024
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2024 13:39:00 +0100
Subject: Export snapshot - is it usable on LiveCode web apps?
In-Reply-To: <1DA5481F-8C90-4F6A-8F8C-986D6E959817@liverpool.ac.uk>
References: <1DA5481F-8C90-4F6A-8F8C-986D6E959817@liverpool.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <d5f49680e326203d4237cd169c778080@livecode.com>

On 2024-08-08 10:22, Jimmieson, Phil via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi folks,
> Im experimenting with converting one of my LiveCode iPad Apps into a 
> web version, to see how well it works, but theres an issue that seems 
> to be a deal-breaker. My iPad app takes a screenshot of the LiveCode 
> stack when the user navigates away from the main card, so that the 
> image can be used elsewhere in the app. This works fine on iPad, but I 
> noticed that the web version of the app generates a javascript 
> exception when I try to leave the main card. On checking the 
> dictionary, I noticed that the export snapshot command is not listed as 
> being supported on web. Is this correct? If so, is there an alternative 
> that will work for web?

So 'export snapshot from screen' is not supported - this is the form 
which takes the pixel data from the actual (composited) screen buffer.

However, there is an alternate form which is entirely internal to the 
engine:

    export snapshot from [ rect <rect> of ] <object>

To use the internal form for a card you can do:

    export snapshot from this card

Or if you want a portion of the card:

    export snapshot from rect 0,0,100,100 of this card

Further there is an `at size <width>,<height>` clause which allows you 
to specify the size you want the resulting image.

The difference here is that the internal form replicates the same 
process that the engine uses to render objects to a window - it renders 
the given rectangle of the object into a rect of the specified size (or 
the size of the rect/object if 'at size' is not specified).

In contrast, the 'external' form has to ask the OS for the given 
rectangle of the actual screen's framebuffer.

Hope this helps,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things


From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com  Thu Aug  8 10:22:41 2024
From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2024 16:22:41 +0200
Subject: Export snapshot - is it usable on LiveCode web apps?
In-Reply-To: <d5f49680e326203d4237cd169c778080@livecode.com>
References: <1DA5481F-8C90-4F6A-8F8C-986D6E959817@liverpool.ac.uk>
 <d5f49680e326203d4237cd169c778080@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <CAGu-FtY7noM1rtbQVt_6czd3-Ov0PhiaaHGTP-VFi5fkuhhkcg@mail.gmail.com>

That’s good to know! Then it must have been something else I was struggling
with - perhaps it had to do with getting a snapshot of the content of a
browser widget…? That would still present problems in certain (all?)
platforms, right?

tors 8 aug. 2024 kl. 14:39 skrev Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:

> On 2024-08-08 10:22, Jimmieson, Phil via use-livecode wrote:
> > Hi folks,
> > I’m experimenting with converting one of my LiveCode iPad Apps into a
> > web version, to see how well it works, but there’s an issue that seems
> > to be a deal-breaker. My iPad app takes a screenshot of the LiveCode
> > stack when the user navigates away from the main card, so that the
> > image can be used elsewhere in the app. This works fine on iPad, but I
> > noticed that the web version of the app generates a javascript
> > exception when I try to leave the main card. On checking the
> > dictionary, I noticed that the export snapshot command is not listed as
> > being supported on web. Is this correct? If so, is there an alternative
> > that will work for web?
>
> So 'export snapshot from screen' is not supported - this is the form
> which takes the pixel data from the actual (composited) screen buffer.
>
> However, there is an alternate form which is entirely internal to the
> engine:
>
>     export snapshot from [ rect <rect> of ] <object>
>
> To use the internal form for a card you can do:
>
>     export snapshot from this card
>
> Or if you want a portion of the card:
>
>     export snapshot from rect 0,0,100,100 of this card
>
> Further there is an `at size <width>,<height>` clause which allows you
> to specify the size you want the resulting image.
>
> The difference here is that the internal form replicates the same
> process that the engine uses to render objects to a window - it renders
> the given rectangle of the object into a rect of the specified size (or
> the size of the rect/object if 'at size' is not specified).
>
> In contrast, the 'external' form has to ask the OS for the given
> rectangle of the actual screen's framebuffer.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Mark.
>
> --
> Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Build Amazing Things

From tom at makeshyft.com  Thu Aug  8 10:37:03 2024
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2024 10:37:03 -0400
Subject: Export snapshot - is it usable on LiveCode web apps?
In-Reply-To: <CAGu-FtY7noM1rtbQVt_6czd3-Ov0PhiaaHGTP-VFi5fkuhhkcg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1DA5481F-8C90-4F6A-8F8C-986D6E959817@liverpool.ac.uk>
 <d5f49680e326203d4237cd169c778080@livecode.com>
 <CAGu-FtY7noM1rtbQVt_6czd3-Ov0PhiaaHGTP-VFi5fkuhhkcg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPzQJLLq8tEJdzJjrk1dSPqMVEreNy_jFePMz=b-09Vuo=1_=Q@mail.gmail.com>

just fyi If your cursor or another window is over the rect it will show up
in the screenshot.

On Thu, Aug 8, 2024 at 10:23 AM Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> That’s good to know! Then it must have been something else I was struggling
> with - perhaps it had to do with getting a snapshot of the content of a
> browser widget…? That would still present problems in certain (all?)
> platforms, right?
>
> tors 8 aug. 2024 kl. 14:39 skrev Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>
> > On 2024-08-08 10:22, Jimmieson, Phil via use-livecode wrote:
> > > Hi folks,
> > > I’m experimenting with converting one of my LiveCode iPad Apps into a
> > > web version, to see how well it works, but there’s an issue that seems
> > > to be a deal-breaker. My iPad app takes a screenshot of the LiveCode
> > > stack when the user navigates away from the main card, so that the
> > > image can be used elsewhere in the app. This works fine on iPad, but I
> > > noticed that the web version of the app generates a javascript
> > > exception when I try to leave the main card. On checking the
> > > dictionary, I noticed that the export snapshot command is not listed as
> > > being supported on web. Is this correct? If so, is there an alternative
> > > that will work for web?
> >
> > So 'export snapshot from screen' is not supported - this is the form
> > which takes the pixel data from the actual (composited) screen buffer.
> >
> > However, there is an alternate form which is entirely internal to the
> > engine:
> >
> >     export snapshot from [ rect <rect> of ] <object>
> >
> > To use the internal form for a card you can do:
> >
> >     export snapshot from this card
> >
> > Or if you want a portion of the card:
> >
> >     export snapshot from rect 0,0,100,100 of this card
> >
> > Further there is an `at size <width>,<height>` clause which allows you
> > to specify the size you want the resulting image.
> >
> > The difference here is that the internal form replicates the same
> > process that the engine uses to render objects to a window - it renders
> > the given rectangle of the object into a rect of the specified size (or
> > the size of the rect/object if 'at size' is not specified).
> >
> > In contrast, the 'external' form has to ask the OS for the given
> > rectangle of the actual screen's framebuffer.
> >
> > Hope this helps,
> >
> > Mark.
> >
> > --
> > Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> > LiveCode: Build Amazing Things
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From phil at liverpool.ac.uk  Thu Aug  8 10:47:06 2024
From: phil at liverpool.ac.uk (Jimmieson, Phil)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2024 14:47:06 +0000
Subject: Export snapshot - is it usable on LiveCode web apps?
In-Reply-To: <d5f49680e326203d4237cd169c778080@livecode.com>
References: <1DA5481F-8C90-4F6A-8F8C-986D6E959817@liverpool.ac.uk>
 <d5f49680e326203d4237cd169c778080@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <6DEF60BF-8BBF-456C-8D12-217C7D631093@liverpool.ac.uk>

Hi folks,
Thanks to everyone who responded to my question. Where else would you get such support? And in particular, with what other development system would you get one of the actual architects of the system, responding to your question? LIveCode is something else.

OK, I have updated my screenshot code. I’m still getting a javascript exception, but it looks like it’s now caused by something else that web doesn’t like. Something that works ok on iPad. More investigation is required...


On 8 Aug 2024, at 13:39, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

Caution: This email originated from outside of the University. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognise the source of this email and know the content is safe. Check sender address, hover over URLs and don't open suspicious email attachments.

On 2024-08-08 10:22, Jimmieson, Phil via use-livecode wrote:
Hi folks,
I’m experimenting with converting one of my LiveCode iPad Apps into a web version, to see how well it works, but there’s an issue that seems to be a deal-breaker. My iPad app takes a screenshot of the LiveCode stack when the user navigates away from the main card, so that the image can be used elsewhere in the app. This works fine on iPad, but I noticed that the web version of the app generates a javascript exception when I try to leave the main card. On checking the dictionary, I noticed that the export snapshot command is not listed as being supported on web. Is this correct? If so, is there an alternative that will work for web?

So 'export snapshot from screen' is not supported - this is the form which takes the pixel data from the actual (composited) screen buffer.

However, there is an alternate form which is entirely internal to the engine:

  export snapshot from [ rect <rect> of ] <object>

To use the internal form for a card you can do:

  export snapshot from this card

Or if you want a portion of the card:

  export snapshot from rect 0,0,100,100 of this card

Further there is an `at size <width>,<height>` clause which allows you to specify the size you want the resulting image.

The difference here is that the internal form replicates the same process that the engine uses to render objects to a window - it renders the given rectangle of the object into a rect of the specified size (or the size of the rect/object if 'at size' is not specified).

In contrast, the 'external' form has to ask the OS for the given rectangle of the actual screen's framebuffer.

Hope this helps,

Mark.

--
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

--
Phil Jimmieson (He/Him)
University of Liverpool, Computer Science Department
Ashton Bldg, Ashton Street, Liverpool. L69 3BX
0151 795 4236


From colinholgate at gmail.com  Thu Aug  8 11:26:42 2024
From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2024 09:26:42 -0600
Subject: macOS Sequoia beta
In-Reply-To: <1332BBC2-A99C-4256-A0E1-C08937501009@gmail.com>
References: <1332BBC2-A99C-4256-A0E1-C08937501009@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DBB50713-CBF0-4CDB-AC61-FA0705789F79@gmail.com>

The LiveCodes I had are no longer working in Sonoma and Sequoia. I updated to LiveCode 9.6.12, and that seems to be working ok in the Sequoia beta 5.


> On Aug 7, 2024, at 9:59 PM, Marty Knapp via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Curious if anyone has tested LC on the macOS Sequoia beta and if so, have you found anything of concern?
> 
> ---
> Marty Knapp
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu Aug  8 11:30:41 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2024 15:30:41 +0000
Subject: iOS App Crashing On Close
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq988ZbpenKTtJ=VXzt=ymH=05sa5H5VCipC4_ScRNJZig@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8fb662aa-fdd5-4d58-b34f-46649a6c0682@researchware.com>
 <F0F12D58-8011-4F5C-92F4-727BC6648B44@iotecdigital.com>
 <2D8C8D7E-38F5-45FD-B825-BEFD2A5BC3AF@iotecdigital.com>
 <SN7PR12MB8028ACDCBC0064708AAA479AB9B82@SN7PR12MB8028.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
 <FED482FD-9297-43E0-8D1F-89457F69A346@gmail.com>
 <SN7PR12MB80287D90DB99184D6D7478C5B9B82@SN7PR12MB8028.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
 <0878A370-0515-4487-99B3-0DFA63C25CEE@gmail.com>
 <CA+JfEq988ZbpenKTtJ=VXzt=ymH=05sa5H5VCipC4_ScRNJZig@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2BFAAF38-C0B1-4AFC-B0B1-E1CE49F12A5B@iotecdigital.com>

I would dearly love to know how to symbolicate a crash log!!!

Bob S


On Aug 8, 2024, at 2:14 AM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

In any case, I think the best way to get this resolved is to send us the
crash log to see if we can symbolicate it


From panos.merakos at livecode.com  Thu Aug  8 11:44:00 2024
From: panos.merakos at livecode.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2024 18:44:00 +0300
Subject: [[ ANN ]] Release 9.6.13
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq-e8iguUoXVW1uWhWmnwwuFZtZAyqbxpysH4u_5f9QGNQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear list members,

We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 9.6.13 STABLE.

LiveCode 9.6.13 STABLE comes with 11 bugfixes and performance improvements
since the last stable release,
including support for building against API 34 on Android, and a new version
of Google's
in-app billing library used for in-app purchase. Both of these changes are
required for
new app submissions to the Google Play Store after the 31st of August 2024.
Moreover, The CEF browser version has been updated on Windows.

You can find more details on the bug fixes and improvements of this new
release here
<https://livecode.com/livecode-9-6-13-rc-1-google-play-store-and-cef-updates-2/>
.

You can find the release in your LiveCode account area or get it via the
automatic updater.

Enjoy!

Kind regards
The LiveCode Team


--

From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu Aug  8 12:01:32 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2024 16:01:32 +0000
Subject: Best way to convert color values
In-Reply-To: <1c7699e21085f1e95e3eea7f8d6a6bc984378c64@fourthworld.com>
References: <1c7699e21085f1e95e3eea7f8d6a6bc984378c64@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <D4B3B450-27F9-494A-BED0-47AAEB40E5D8@iotecdigital.com>

Yet another gem for my Validations library. I should probably separate out the conversion stuff as a conversions library. 

Bob S


> On Aug 7, 2024, at 11:14 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Paul Dupuis wrote:
> 
>> I can always write a routine to convert RGB to Hex and Hex to RGB, but
>> I am wondering if there is some clever trick in Livecode to do this.
>> 
>> For example: answer color -- returns RGB, but the htmlText of a line
>> wants <p bgcolor="#NNNNNN"> </p>
> 
> 
> If the target of the htmlText is a LiveCode field, I don't know of a method built into the LC engine, but it's easy enough to script:
> 
> function RGBtoHex pColor
>   repeat for each item tVal in pColor
>      get baseConvert(tVal, 10, 16)
>      if len(it) < 2 then put 0 before it
>      put it after tHex
>   end repeat
>   return "#"& tHex
> end RGBtoHex
> 
> 
> If the target of the htmlText is a browser widget, the browser engine's built-in "rgb" CSS function can do this:
> 
> <html>
>  <div style="background-color:rgb(130,30,230)"> Hello </div>
> </html>
> 
> --
> Richard Gaskin
> FourthWorld.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From merakosp at gmail.com  Thu Aug  8 12:26:24 2024
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2024 19:26:24 +0300
Subject: iOS App Crashing On Close
In-Reply-To: <2BFAAF38-C0B1-4AFC-B0B1-E1CE49F12A5B@iotecdigital.com>
References: <8fb662aa-fdd5-4d58-b34f-46649a6c0682@researchware.com>
 <F0F12D58-8011-4F5C-92F4-727BC6648B44@iotecdigital.com>
 <2D8C8D7E-38F5-45FD-B825-BEFD2A5BC3AF@iotecdigital.com>
 <SN7PR12MB8028ACDCBC0064708AAA479AB9B82@SN7PR12MB8028.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
 <FED482FD-9297-43E0-8D1F-89457F69A346@gmail.com>
 <SN7PR12MB80287D90DB99184D6D7478C5B9B82@SN7PR12MB8028.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
 <0878A370-0515-4487-99B3-0DFA63C25CEE@gmail.com>
 <CA+JfEq988ZbpenKTtJ=VXzt=ymH=05sa5H5VCipC4_ScRNJZig@mail.gmail.com>
 <2BFAAF38-C0B1-4AFC-B0B1-E1CE49F12A5B@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq9502GZkE1Qs1Ld28Oa4iH5LQi-3Y_JyNvW1yFWpgw0-A@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Bob,

To do this you need the debug symbols for the version of the engine that
was used to build the app - which are not publicly available.

Kind regards,
Panos

On Thu, 8 Aug 2024 at 18:31, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I would dearly love to know how to symbolicate a crash log!!!
>
> Bob S
>
>
> On Aug 8, 2024, at 2:14 AM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> In any case, I think the best way to get this resolved is to send us the
> crash log to see if we can symbolicate it
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From klaus at major-k.de  Fri Aug  9 05:10:23 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2024 11:10:23 +0200
Subject: Android API 34 and Android keystore
Message-ID: <218F032A-9FE0-4381-AFD0-11629A3EEAC8@major-k.de>

Hi all,

two questions:
1. In my "Android Studio" there are three options for SDK Tools for API level 34:
34
34-ext8
34-ext12

What should I install? 34 or all of them?

2. I need to update my Android freeware app to above mentioned API.
I had uploaded the first version to Google Play with a self signed key,
made with Android Studio, Google was content.

As far as I understood this, I need to use this key for every upload of that app.
And Google then takes care of (final) signing etc.

However I lost that keystore file during a hd crash a couple of months ago.
What should/can I do?

Any advice much appreciated, thank you!


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From sean at pidigital.co.uk  Fri Aug  9 11:56:01 2024
From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Sean Cole)
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2024 16:56:01 +0100
Subject: Annual price
Message-ID: <CABRqQSQJ=ioTOcLORYDoHedBKUeuQLKaf04y63YFQvR4mtWhGQ@mail.gmail.com>

As Create is billed annually, why does this page,
https://future.livecode.com/buy/, only show the monthly price? Why not show
the annual price at all? It is a common marketing practice that only comes
across as underhanded and untrustworthy.

Sean

From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Aug  9 12:24:56 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2024 16:24:56 +0000
Subject: Annual price
In-Reply-To: <CABRqQSQJ=ioTOcLORYDoHedBKUeuQLKaf04y63YFQvR4mtWhGQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABRqQSQJ=ioTOcLORYDoHedBKUeuQLKaf04y63YFQvR4mtWhGQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <690E07B4-5B19-4B33-A8B0-350CECCCC715@iotecdigital.com>

Jeeze can we just please stop with the criticisms??

Bob S


> On Aug 9, 2024, at 8:56 AM, Sean Cole via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> As Create is billed annually, why does this page,
> https://future.livecode.com/buy/, only show the monthly price? Why not show
> the annual price at all? It is a common marketing practice that only comes
> across as underhanded and untrustworthy.
> 
> Sean
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From jbv at souslelogo.com  Fri Aug  9 12:53:55 2024
From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com)
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2024 12:53:55 -0400
Subject: Annual price
In-Reply-To: <690E07B4-5B19-4B33-A8B0-350CECCCC715@iotecdigital.com>
References: <CABRqQSQJ=ioTOcLORYDoHedBKUeuQLKaf04y63YFQvR4mtWhGQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <690E07B4-5B19-4B33-A8B0-350CECCCC715@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <a2f925ccdd52eaea452373c6474cc415@souslelogo.com>

Le 2024-08-09 12:24, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode a crit :
> Jeeze can we just please stop with the criticisms??
> 
> Bob S
> 

Apart from criticism, it could be a nice option, especially for 
hobbyists,
to be able to pay a Classic license monthly, just like LC hosting, or 
other
development software line Max MSP : https://cycling74.com/shop/max.


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Aug  9 12:59:36 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2024 16:59:36 +0000
Subject: Annual price
In-Reply-To: <a2f925ccdd52eaea452373c6474cc415@souslelogo.com>
References: <CABRqQSQJ=ioTOcLORYDoHedBKUeuQLKaf04y63YFQvR4mtWhGQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <690E07B4-5B19-4B33-A8B0-350CECCCC715@iotecdigital.com>
 <a2f925ccdd52eaea452373c6474cc415@souslelogo.com>
Message-ID: <0888DD6E-AB22-463A-9BBF-965140149143@iotecdigital.com>

Understood, but LC and Kevin have made it crystal clear that these are the options available, they are willing to make some rare exceptions if they are contacted directly and NOT on this list, and finally that no more criticisms will be tolerated on this list. 

Bob S


> On Aug 9, 2024, at 9:53 AM, jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Le 2024-08-09 12:24, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode a écrit :
>> Jeeze can we just please stop with the criticisms??
>> Bob S
> 
> Apart from criticism, it could be a nice option, especially for hobbyists,
> to be able to pay a Classic license monthly, just like LC hosting, or other
> development software line Max MSP : https://cycling74.com/shop/max.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From scott at elementarysoftware.com  Fri Aug  9 15:56:19 2024
From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (scott at elementarysoftware.com)
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2024 12:56:19 -0700
Subject: Android API 34 and Android keystore
In-Reply-To: <218F032A-9FE0-4381-AFD0-11629A3EEAC8@major-k.de>
References: <218F032A-9FE0-4381-AFD0-11629A3EEAC8@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <6BC1D23E-E1A9-466B-9347-ED6B8AEF14EC@elementarysoftware.com>

As for which SDK variant to install… I don’t know but hope you will report back before I encounter this question :- )

As for the second question about the lost keystore… 
a few years ago I encountered a similar problem (I apparently overwrote my keystore with a different one and, by the time I needed to submit an update to GooglePlay, I had lots of  back-ups of the wrong keystore!) After reading up on things I came to the conclusion that there was no solution and that without the original keystore the app could no longer be updated in GooglePlay. The only way forward I could see was to “unpublish” the existing app and create a new app entry (with a different internal name but using the same storefront name.) This meant that the existing users couldn’t “update” their app without downloading the new app (searchable under the original name.) I can’t recall how I handled the user-data that the original app generated but I suspect that it was lost and needed to be recreated. (With this app it would have been mildly annoying but not unbearable. I can imagine use-cases where moving the data might be a big issue.)  This was a commercial app where the clients were known to me so it was possible to notify them and they could get the word out to their employees. 

This was a number of years ago so perhaps things have changed since then. I hope that you find a better solution, Klaus.

--
Scott Morrow

Elementary Software
(Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
web       https://elementarysoftware.com/
email     scott at elementarysoftware.com
booth    1-360-734-4701
------------------------------------------------------

> On Aug 9, 2024, at 2:10 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> two questions:
> 1. In my "Android Studio" there are three options for SDK Tools for API level 34:
> 34
> 34-ext8
> 34-ext12
> 
> What should I install? 34 or all of them?
> 
> 2. I need to update my Android freeware app to above mentioned API.
> I had uploaded the first version to Google Play with a self signed key,
> made with Android Studio, Google was content.
> 
> As far as I understood this, I need to use this key for every upload of that app.
> And Google then takes care of (final) signing etc.
> 
> However I lost that keystore file during a hd crash a couple of months ago.
> What should/can I do?
> 
> Any advice much appreciated, thank you!
> 
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode













From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Aug  9 16:03:42 2024
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2024 15:03:42 -0500
Subject: Android API 34 and Android keystore
In-Reply-To: <218F032A-9FE0-4381-AFD0-11629A3EEAC8@major-k.de>
References: <218F032A-9FE0-4381-AFD0-11629A3EEAC8@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <19138bd6530.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

I'm not sure about the SDK version but it probably won't hurt to install 
them all and let LC choose the one that's compatible. For the signing key, 
you can recreate it if you have the info and password you used for the 
original. I keep that info in my password vault just in case. If you don't 
have that info, then I'm not sure what to do. Google support could advise you.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On August 9, 2024 4:12:48 AM Klaus major-k via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> two questions:
> 1. In my "Android Studio" there are three options for SDK Tools for API 
> level 34:
> 34
> 34-ext8
> 34-ext12
>
> What should I install? 34 or all of them?
>
> 2. I need to update my Android freeware app to above mentioned API.
> I had uploaded the first version to Google Play with a self signed key,
> made with Android Studio, Google was content.
>
> As far as I understood this, I need to use this key for every upload of 
> that app.
> And Google then takes care of (final) signing etc.
>
> However I lost that keystore file during a hd crash a couple of months ago.
> What should/can I do?
>
> Any advice much appreciated, thank you!
>
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From pystcat at gmail.com  Fri Aug  9 16:13:23 2024
From: pystcat at gmail.com (Paul Pystcat)
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2024 16:13:23 -0400
Subject: Annual price
In-Reply-To: <a2f925ccdd52eaea452373c6474cc415@souslelogo.com>
References: <CABRqQSQJ=ioTOcLORYDoHedBKUeuQLKaf04y63YFQvR4mtWhGQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <690E07B4-5B19-4B33-A8B0-350CECCCC715@iotecdigital.com>
 <a2f925ccdd52eaea452373c6474cc415@souslelogo.com>
Message-ID: <3B06C993-0D74-4B67-84AB-2075E39C2932@gmail.com>

Funny thing is…?  If you choose a license and fill out the form, it will tell you the yearly price.
I agree with you on this one, Bob.

> On Aug 9, 2024, at 12:53 PM, jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Le 2024-08-09 12:24, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode a écrit :
>> Jeeze can we just please stop with the criticisms??
>> Bob S
> 
> Apart from criticism, it could be a nice option, especially for hobbyists,
> to be able to pay a Classic license monthly, just like LC hosting, or other
> development software line Max MSP : https://cycling74.com/shop/max.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From scott at elementarysoftware.com  Fri Aug  9 16:57:15 2024
From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (scott at elementarysoftware.com)
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2024 13:57:15 -0700
Subject: Android API 34 and Android keystore
In-Reply-To: <19138bd6530.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <218F032A-9FE0-4381-AFD0-11629A3EEAC8@major-k.de>
 <19138bd6530.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <6277C053-0A04-4674-A606-184BA19E9CE1@elementarysoftware.com>

Jacque, that seems like a more reasonable  (and hopeful) answer. In my case, I was certain that I knew all of that information yet was still unable to recreate a keystore that GooglePlay would accept. Likely, I was just mistaken.

--
Scott Morrow

> On Aug 9, 2024, at 1:03 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I'm not sure about the SDK version but it probably won't hurt to install them all and let LC choose the one that's compatible. For the signing key, you can recreate it if you have the info and password you used for the original. I keep that info in my password vault just in case. If you don't have that info, then I'm not sure what to do. Google support could advise you.
> 
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On August 9, 2024 4:12:48 AM Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> two questions:
>> 1. In my "Android Studio" there are three options for SDK Tools for API level 34:
>> 34
>> 34-ext8
>> 34-ext12
>> 
>> What should I install? 34 or all of them?
>> 
>> 2. I need to update my Android freeware app to above mentioned API.
>> I had uploaded the first version to Google Play with a self signed key,
>> made with Android Studio, Google was content.
>> 
>> As far as I understood this, I need to use this key for every upload of that app.
>> And Google then takes care of (final) signing etc.
>> 
>> However I lost that keystore file during a hd crash a couple of months ago.
>> What should/can I do?
>> 
>> Any advice much appreciated, thank you!
>> 
>> 
>> Best
>> 
>> Klaus
>> --
>> Klaus Major
>> https://www.major-k.de
>> https://www.major-k.de/bass
>> klaus at major-k.de
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Fri Aug  9 17:28:54 2024
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2024 17:28:54 -0400
Subject: Android API 34 and Android keystore
In-Reply-To: <6BC1D23E-E1A9-466B-9347-ED6B8AEF14EC@elementarysoftware.com>
References: <218F032A-9FE0-4381-AFD0-11629A3EEAC8@major-k.de>
 <6BC1D23E-E1A9-466B-9347-ED6B8AEF14EC@elementarysoftware.com>
Message-ID: <004301daeaa3$25a96c00$70fc4400$@net>

Klaus,

Once you lose the keystore you don't have the key pair used to generate the keystore entry. Scott is correct, you have to re-publish with all the headaches Scott enumerated.
Sorry man...

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of scott--- via use-livecode
Sent: Friday, August 09, 2024 3:56 PM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: scott at elementarysoftware.com
Subject: Re: Android API 34 and Android keystore

As for which SDK variant to install… I don’t know but hope you will report back before I encounter this question :- )

As for the second question about the lost keystore… a few years ago I encountered a similar problem (I apparently overwrote my keystore with a different one and, by the time I needed to submit an update to GooglePlay, I had lots of  back-ups of the wrong keystore!) After reading up on things I came to the conclusion that there was no solution and that without the original keystore the app could no longer be updated in GooglePlay. The only way forward I could see was to “unpublish” the existing app and create a new app entry (with a different internal name but using the same storefront name.) This meant that the existing users couldn’t “update” their app without downloading the new app (searchable under the original name.) I can’t recall how I handled the user-data that the original app generated but I suspect that it was lost and needed to be recreated. (With this app it would have been mildly annoying but not unbearable. I can imagine use-cases where moving the data might be a big issue.)  This was a commercial app where the clients were known to me so it was possible to notify them and they could get the word out to their employees. 

This was a number of years ago so perhaps things have changed since then. I hope that you find a better solution, Klaus.

--
Scott Morrow

Elementary Software
(Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
web       https://elementarysoftware.com/
email     scott at elementarysoftware.com
booth    1-360-734-4701
------------------------------------------------------

> On Aug 9, 2024, at 2:10 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> two questions:
> 1. In my "Android Studio" there are three options for SDK Tools for API level 34:
> 34
> 34-ext8
> 34-ext12
> 
> What should I install? 34 or all of them?
> 
> 2. I need to update my Android freeware app to above mentioned API.
> I had uploaded the first version to Google Play with a self signed 
> key, made with Android Studio, Google was content.
> 
> As far as I understood this, I need to use this key for every upload of that app.
> And Google then takes care of (final) signing etc.
> 
> However I lost that keystore file during a hd crash a couple of months ago.
> What should/can I do?
> 
> Any advice much appreciated, thank you!
> 
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode












_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Aug  9 19:09:46 2024
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2024 18:09:46 -0500
Subject: Android API 34 and Android keystore
In-Reply-To: <004301daeaa3$25a96c00$70fc4400$@net>
References: <218F032A-9FE0-4381-AFD0-11629A3EEAC8@major-k.de>
 <6BC1D23E-E1A9-466B-9347-ED6B8AEF14EC@elementarysoftware.com>
 <004301daeaa3$25a96c00$70fc4400$@net>
Message-ID: <1913967be90.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

I stand corrected, thanks.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On August 9, 2024 4:29:57 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Klaus,
>
> Once you lose the keystore you don't have the key pair used to generate the 
> keystore entry. Scott is correct, you have to re-publish with all the 
> headaches Scott enumerated.
> Sorry man...
>
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf 
> Of scott--- via use-livecode
> Sent: Friday, August 09, 2024 3:56 PM
> To: How to use LiveCode
> Cc: scott at elementarysoftware.com
> Subject: Re: Android API 34 and Android keystore
>
> As for which SDK variant to install I dont know but hope you will report 
> back before I encounter this question :- )
>
> As for the second question about the lost keystore a few years ago I 
> encountered a similar problem (I apparently overwrote my keystore with a 
> different one and, by the time I needed to submit an update to GooglePlay, 
> I had lots of  back-ups of the wrong keystore!) After reading up on things 
> I came to the conclusion that there was no solution and that without the 
> original keystore the app could no longer be updated in GooglePlay. The 
> only way forward I could see was to unpublish the existing app and create 
> a new app entry (with a different internal name but using the same 
> storefront name.) This meant that the existing users couldnt update 
> their app without downloading the new app (searchable under the original 
> name.) I cant recall how I handled the user-data that the original app 
> generated but I suspect that it was lost and needed to be recreated. (With 
> this app it would have been mildly annoying but not unbearable. I can 
> imagine use-cases where moving the data might be a big issue.)  This was a 
> commercial app where the clients were known to me so it was possible to 
> notify them and they could get the word out to their employees.
>
> This was a number of years ago so perhaps things have changed since then. I 
> hope that you find a better solution, Klaus.
>
> --
> Scott Morrow
>
> Elementary Software
> (Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
> web       https://elementarysoftware.com/
> email     scott at elementarysoftware.com
> booth    1-360-734-4701
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
>> On Aug 9, 2024, at 2:10AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> two questions:
>> 1. In my "Android Studio" there are three options for SDK Tools for API 
>> level 34:
>> 34
>> 34-ext8
>> 34-ext12
>>
>> What should I install? 34 or all of them?
>>
>> 2. I need to update my Android freeware app to above mentioned API.
>> I had uploaded the first version to Google Play with a self signed
>> key, made with Android Studio, Google was content.
>>
>> As far as I understood this, I need to use this key for every upload of 
>> that app.
>> And Google then takes care of (final) signing etc.
>>
>> However I lost that keystore file during a hd crash a couple of months ago.
>> What should/can I do?
>>
>> Any advice much appreciated, thank you!
>>
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Klaus
>> --
>> Klaus Major
>> https://www.major-k.de
>> https://www.major-k.de/bass
>> klaus at major-k.de
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From klaus at major-k.de  Sat Aug 10 03:48:40 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2024 09:48:40 +0200
Subject: Android API 34 and Android keystore
In-Reply-To: <1913967be90.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <218F032A-9FE0-4381-AFD0-11629A3EEAC8@major-k.de>
 <6BC1D23E-E1A9-466B-9347-ED6B8AEF14EC@elementarysoftware.com>
 <004301daeaa3$25a96c00$70fc4400$@net>
 <1913967be90.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <228C43E8-F13F-40A5-B7D9-EC3C9E01F112@major-k.de>

Hi all,

thank you for you input, I will now install everything related to API34.
And I will write to GOOGLE support, there MUST be another way for singing the app.
(Fingers crossed) :-/

Thanks to all, have a nice weekend!


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From williamdesmet at gmail.com  Sat Aug 10 03:56:51 2024
From: williamdesmet at gmail.com (William de Smet)
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2024 09:56:51 +0200
Subject: Export snapshot - is it usable on LiveCode web apps?
In-Reply-To: <6DEF60BF-8BBF-456C-8D12-217C7D631093@liverpool.ac.uk>
References: <1DA5481F-8C90-4F6A-8F8C-986D6E959817@liverpool.ac.uk>
 <d5f49680e326203d4237cd169c778080@livecode.com>
 <6DEF60BF-8BBF-456C-8D12-217C7D631093@liverpool.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <CAHFYGn5ErFf3=fP8zx8EcFoRwn5R_qfy7=hS8LX7xVHD1p4j+A@mail.gmail.com>

And in addition to this I have another question:
How do we download this created snapshot in a web browser?



greetings,

William




Op do 8 aug 2024 om 16:48 schreef Jimmieson, Phil via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:

> Hi folks,
> Thanks to everyone who responded to my question. Where else would you get
> such support? And in particular, with what other development system would
> you get one of the actual architects of the system, responding to your
> question? LIveCode is something else.
>
> OK, I have updated my screenshot code. I’m still getting a javascript
> exception, but it looks like it’s now caused by something else that web
> doesn’t like. Something that works ok on iPad. More investigation is
> required...
>
>
> On 8 Aug 2024, at 13:39, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> Caution: This email originated from outside of the University. Do not
> click links or open attachments unless you recognise the source of this
> email and know the content is safe. Check sender address, hover over URLs
> and don't open suspicious email attachments.
>
> On 2024-08-08 10:22, Jimmieson, Phil via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi folks,
> I’m experimenting with converting one of my LiveCode iPad Apps into a web
> version, to see how well it works, but there’s an issue that seems to be a
> deal-breaker. My iPad app takes a screenshot of the LiveCode stack when the
> user navigates away from the main card, so that the image can be used
> elsewhere in the app. This works fine on iPad, but I noticed that the web
> version of the app generates a javascript exception when I try to leave the
> main card. On checking the dictionary, I noticed that the export snapshot
> command is not listed as being supported on web. Is this correct? If so, is
> there an alternative that will work for web?
>
> So 'export snapshot from screen' is not supported - this is the form which
> takes the pixel data from the actual (composited) screen buffer.
>
> However, there is an alternate form which is entirely internal to the
> engine:
>
>   export snapshot from [ rect <rect> of ] <object>
>
> To use the internal form for a card you can do:
>
>   export snapshot from this card
>
> Or if you want a portion of the card:
>
>   export snapshot from rect 0,0,100,100 of this card
>
> Further there is an `at size <width>,<height>` clause which allows you to
> specify the size you want the resulting image.
>
> The difference here is that the internal form replicates the same process
> that the engine uses to render objects to a window - it renders the given
> rectangle of the object into a rect of the specified size (or the size of
> the rect/object if 'at size' is not specified).
>
> In contrast, the 'external' form has to ask the OS for the given rectangle
> of the actual screen's framebuffer.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Mark.
>
> --
> Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Build Amazing Things
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> --
> Phil Jimmieson (He/Him)
> University of Liverpool, Computer Science Department
> Ashton Bldg, Ashton Street, Liverpool. L69 3BX
> 0151 795 4236
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From sean at pidigital.co.uk  Sat Aug 10 10:43:01 2024
From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Sean Cole)
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2024 15:43:01 +0100
Subject: Annual price
In-Reply-To: <3B06C993-0D74-4B67-84AB-2075E39C2932@gmail.com>
References: <CABRqQSQJ=ioTOcLORYDoHedBKUeuQLKaf04y63YFQvR4mtWhGQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <690E07B4-5B19-4B33-A8B0-350CECCCC715@iotecdigital.com>
 <a2f925ccdd52eaea452373c6474cc415@souslelogo.com>
 <3B06C993-0D74-4B67-84AB-2075E39C2932@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABRqQSSzPa=H3GKH5V3By2o4kckiBD8qVrG8LyfY2znKGN+sFg@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry if you were offended, Bob, Paul, et al. Not my intention. Not
intended as a slur against LC either, although, after re-reading it, I can
see how it might appear to be. Sorry again. I AM 'the' *most*
appalling being the universe dust ever formed.

But... It was not a criticism. Perhaps if you re-read it you will note that
it was not calling into question the amount but the way it is displayed.
The page 'should' state clearly at the outset what the yearly price is AND
even perhaps make that number bigger with the equivalent 'monthly' amount
(which doesn't exist as you MUST pay in advance for the whole year - again,
to non-native English speakers may not be immediately obvious) underneath
in smaller text with an asterisk by it that says something like 'not
available as a monthly subscription'.

I was only throwing it out there as I had just received the 'Lone
Ranger/Coder' email and followed the link to the already familiar purchase
page with the two $36.67 offers. I'm not, I repeat, I am NOT disputing the
price as I think it is fair, even the non-30% discounted rate. It's by far
and away the best deal for Livecode I've seen as it covers every platform
and configuration. Even with the multiple-seat dispute, I have no contest
over it. This was an observation of how it is displayed on that page and
that page alone.

I'm off now to hang my head in shame and reflect on how miserable I have
made all your lives by making any comment at all. I humbly look forward to
you tearing me down further as I deserve.

Sean (IQ -5)

On Fri, 9 Aug 2024 at 21:13, Paul Pystcat via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Funny thing is…?  If you choose a license and fill out the form, it will
> tell you the yearly price.
> I agree with you on this one, Bob.
>
[image: GeoTrack]
<https://geotrack.email/?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=viralSignature>
Sender
notified with GeoTrack
<https://geotrack.email/?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=viralSignature>
[image: 43]

From dfe4 at cornell.edu  Sat Aug 10 11:15:55 2024
From: dfe4 at cornell.edu (David Epstein)
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2024 11:15:55 -0400
Subject: Icon id conflicts?
Message-ID: <3165639C-B331-490B-8A13-0E8C2861B307@cornell.edu>

I am moving a project I created in LC 5.5 to LC 10.0rc1.  Some buttons have their icon set to the id of an image found in a stack “in use.”  In some cases, this still works, but several buttons no longer look right in LC10, I assume because the icon number exists somewhere else in LC10.  How can I go about finding and imposing an id number for my image that will not encounter this conflict?

Alternatively, the dictionary says I can use an image name as a button’s icon, but the LC property inspector doesn’t let me enter non-numbers as an icon, and setting the icon to an image name from the message box has no effect (the image named is in a stack “in use”).

David Epstein

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat Aug 10 13:02:06 2024
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2024 12:02:06 -0500
Subject: Icon id conflicts?
In-Reply-To: <3165639C-B331-490B-8A13-0E8C2861B307@cornell.edu>
References: <3165639C-B331-490B-8A13-0E8C2861B307@cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <1913d3d7eb0.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

Did you try using the full path to the image when setting the icon by name 
in the message box?

What I've done in the past is adding 20 or 50 in front of the image ID 
which makes it a number in the thousands, so icon 1243 becomes 501243. That 
allows you to use the inspector, though everything created after that will 
have IDs in the 50 thousands.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On August 10, 2024 10:18:07 AM David Epstein via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I am moving a project I created in LC 5.5 to LC 10.0rc1.  Some buttons have 
> their icon set to the id of an image found in a stack in use.  In some 
> cases, this still works, but several buttons no longer look right in LC10, 
> I assume because the icon number exists somewhere else in LC10.  How can I 
> go about finding and imposing an id number for my image that will not 
> encounter this conflict?
>
> Alternatively, the dictionary says I can use an image name as a buttons 
> icon, but the LC property inspector doesnt let me enter non-numbers as an 
> icon, and setting the icon to an image name from the message box has no 
> effect (the image named is in a stack in use).
>
> David Epstein
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Sat Aug 10 16:05:48 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2024 20:05:48 +0000
Subject: Icon id conflicts?
In-Reply-To: <1913d3d7eb0.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <1913d3d7eb0.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <8E66D7D9-F970-4DA2-AC0D-64D0DB3F84C2@iotecdigital.com>

I agree with Jacque I always use the full path to the image file, and I always put the image on the same card as the button, unless the image is used in multiple buttons, then I put the image on the first card of the stack the button is in. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 10, 2024, at 10:04, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Did you try using the full path to the image when setting the icon by name in the message box?


From curry at pair.com  Sun Aug 11 03:55:10 2024
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2024 03:55:10 -0400
Subject: Annual price
In-Reply-To: <CABRqQSSzPa=H3GKH5V3By2o4kckiBD8qVrG8LyfY2znKGN+sFg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABRqQSSzPa=H3GKH5V3By2o4kckiBD8qVrG8LyfY2znKGN+sFg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <03049055-7ce3-4228-80e1-03907285323b@pair.com>

Sean:

 > I'm off now to hang my head in shame and reflect on how miserable
 > I have made all your lives by making any comment at all. I humbly
 > look forward to you tearing me down further as I deserve.
 > Sean (IQ -5)

You are important - You've made a real difference in coding here.
And such a great sense of humor! :) Have a good weekend.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
"PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
https://livecodeconsulting.com/


From curry at pair.com  Sun Aug 11 04:21:55 2024
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2024 04:21:55 -0400
Subject: Icon id conflicts?
In-Reply-To: <3165639C-B331-490B-8A13-0E8C2861B307@cornell.edu>
References: <3165639C-B331-490B-8A13-0E8C2861B307@cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <f8c9151a-f699-4c0d-a61c-748b1c69f7c7@pair.com>

David:

 > I am moving a project I created in LC 5.5 to LC 10.0rc1....
 > several buttons no longer look right in LC10, I assume because
 > the icon number exists somewhere else in LC10.

See also: 'resolve image' for handy lookup.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development -
"RESURRECT old LC projects! Broken stack? Bring it back."
https://livecodeconsulting.com/


From klaus at major-k.de  Sun Aug 11 07:43:31 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2024 13:43:31 +0200
Subject: revSpeak/speechSpeakutterance?
Message-ID: <B4CE18B2-20A5-48E8-AA31-F4BF6C85AFBA@major-k.de>

Hi friends,

I am currently exploring the revspeak stuff, but the dictionary
does in fact irritate me a lot?

Entry for revSpeak:
Type: command
Syntax: revSpeak phraseToSpeak
Associations: Speech library
Summary: Speaks text through the computer's speakers.Introduced2.0
OS: mac, windows

Entry for speechSpeakUtterance:
Type: handler
Syntax: speechSpeakUtterance(pString)
Associations: Speech Library
Summary: Synthesize text to speech
OS: mac, ios, android

Note the OS differences (while obviously using the SAME library)!?

Is this an error in the dictionary or does the "speechspeak..." stuff
really not work on Windows? Thanks for any insight!


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Aug 12 03:44:15 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2024 09:44:15 +0200
Subject: Android API 34 and Android keystore
In-Reply-To: <1913967be90.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <218F032A-9FE0-4381-AFD0-11629A3EEAC8@major-k.de>
 <6BC1D23E-E1A9-466B-9347-ED6B8AEF14EC@elementarysoftware.com>
 <004301daeaa3$25a96c00$70fc4400$@net>
 <1913967be90.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <F933518B-5DC7-4248-8A87-A21E38F653D0@major-k.de>

Hi all,

I got a response from the Google Play Store and it IS in fact possible
that Google will reset my (upload) key! Just ask nicely. :-)

In case you are interested, I will give you more and detailed info about
this process once I finally mastered all the neccessary steps.


Best from hot germany

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From heather at livecode.com  Mon Aug 12 06:34:54 2024
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2024 11:34:54 +0100
Subject: Live LiveCode Create demo - join us tomorrow
Message-ID: <3729C864-B794-413C-9204-DF8969CE78E0@livecode.com>

Hello List Folks,

Just to make you aware, we are holding an open webinar tomorrow, at 4pm UK time, where we will be demo'ing LiveCode Create and taking questions. If you'd like to take part please go here to sign up:

https://us02web.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_EAjwE614Q9Wi_366Y7b0vw

When you go to this link Zoom will tell you what time it is in your timezone.

Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com





From selander at tkf.att.ne.jp  Mon Aug 12 08:24:45 2024
From: selander at tkf.att.ne.jp (Tim Selander)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2024 21:24:45 +0900
Subject: Live LiveCode Create demo - join us tomorrow
In-Reply-To: <3729C864-B794-413C-9204-DF8969CE78E0@livecode.com>
References: <3729C864-B794-413C-9204-DF8969CE78E0@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <5e802682-bec2-70e7-2f6b-6f6d77b147c4@tkf.att.ne.jp>

Hi Heather,

Being in Japan, the time (midnight) is a little too late for this old 
man! Any chance it will be recorded? I would love to watch it later.

Thanks,

Tim Selander


On 2024/08/12 19:34, Heather Laine via use-livecode wrote:
> Hello List Folks,
> 
> Just to make you aware, we are holding an open webinar tomorrow, at 4pm UK time, where we will be demo'ing LiveCode Create and taking questions. If you'd like to take part please go here to sign up:
> 
> https://us02web.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_EAjwE614Q9Wi_366Y7b0vw
> 
> When you go to this link Zoom will tell you what time it is in your timezone.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Mon Aug 12 09:35:39 2024
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2024 09:35:39 -0400
Subject: Android API 34 and Android keystore
In-Reply-To: <F933518B-5DC7-4248-8A87-A21E38F653D0@major-k.de>
References: <218F032A-9FE0-4381-AFD0-11629A3EEAC8@major-k.de>
 <6BC1D23E-E1A9-466B-9347-ED6B8AEF14EC@elementarysoftware.com>
 <004301daeaa3$25a96c00$70fc4400$@net>
 <1913967be90.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <F933518B-5DC7-4248-8A87-A21E38F653D0@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <002b01daecbc$883c9750$98b5c5f0$@net>

Klaus,

GREAT NEWS! I stand corrected also. Please post the contact and procedure.
This will help all on the list. Thanks for doing the foot work to figure
this out.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
Of Klaus major-k via use-livecode
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2024 3:44 AM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Klaus major-k
Subject: Re: Android API 34 and Android keystore

Hi all,

I got a response from the Google Play Store and it IS in fact possible that
Google will reset my (upload) key! Just ask nicely. :-)

In case you are interested, I will give you more and detailed info about
this process once I finally mastered all the neccessary steps.


Best from hot germany

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de


_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From merakosp at gmail.com  Mon Aug 12 09:36:15 2024
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2024 16:36:15 +0300
Subject: revSpeak/speechSpeakutterance?
In-Reply-To: <B4CE18B2-20A5-48E8-AA31-F4BF6C85AFBA@major-k.de>
References: <B4CE18B2-20A5-48E8-AA31-F4BF6C85AFBA@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq9+eTFBa2i9JN3sZ32AhADLTYWJqN2=qb8x0Uj1JiD9kQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Klaus,

It is not the same library:

- The "revSpeak" one is the old speech library, implemented in the engine
level, available for Windows and macOS

- The "speechSpeakUtterance" is the new speech library, implemented in LCB,
available for macOS, Android, iOS

Also, each one of them has a slightly different feature set - see the
dictionary for more details.

Kind regards,
Panos
--

On Sun, 11 Aug 2024 at 14:44, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi friends,
>
> I am currently exploring the revspeak stuff, but the dictionary
> does in fact irritate me a lot?
>
> Entry for revSpeak:
> Type: command
> Syntax: revSpeak phraseToSpeak
> Associations: Speech library
> Summary: Speaks text through the computer's speakers.Introduced2.0
> OS: mac, windows
>
> Entry for speechSpeakUtterance:
> Type: handler
> Syntax: speechSpeakUtterance(pString)
> Associations: Speech Library
> Summary: Synthesize text to speech
> OS: mac, ios, android
>
> Note the OS differences (while obviously using the SAME library)!?
>
> Is this an error in the dictionary or does the "speechspeak..." stuff
> really not work on Windows? Thanks for any insight!
>
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Aug 12 09:56:51 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2024 15:56:51 +0200
Subject: revSpeak/speechSpeakutterance?
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq9+eTFBa2i9JN3sZ32AhADLTYWJqN2=qb8x0Uj1JiD9kQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B4CE18B2-20A5-48E8-AA31-F4BF6C85AFBA@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq9+eTFBa2i9JN3sZ32AhADLTYWJqN2=qb8x0Uj1JiD9kQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABB3D4B-536B-4CEA-8F81-E0CD219154FA@major-k.de>

Hi Panos,

> Am 12.08.2024 um 15:36 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hello Klaus,
> 
> It is not the same library:
> - The "revSpeak" one is the old speech library, implemented in the engine
> level, available for Windows and macOS
> - The "speechSpeakUtterance" is the new speech library, implemented in LCB,
> available for macOS, Android, iOS

ah, I see, thank you for clarification!

But then this should be made clear in the dictionary!
Entry for revSpeak:
...
Associations: Speech library
...

And:
...
Entry for speechSpeakUtterance:
...
Associations: Speech Library
...

See what I mean? That was puzzling me. :-)

> Also, each one of them has a slightly different feature set - see the
> dictionary for more details.
> 
> Kind regards,
> Panos
> --
> 
> On Sun, 11 Aug 2024 at 14:44, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hi friends,
>> 
>> I am currently exploring the revspeak stuff, but the dictionary
>> does in fact irritate me a lot?
>> 
>> Entry for revSpeak:
>> Type: command
>> Syntax: revSpeak phraseToSpeak
>> Associations: Speech library
>> Summary: Speaks text through the computer's speakers.Introduced2.0
>> OS: mac, windows
>> 
>> Entry for speechSpeakUtterance:
>> Type: handler
>> Syntax: speechSpeakUtterance(pString)
>> Associations: Speech Library
>> Summary: Synthesize text to speech
>> OS: mac, ios, android
>> 
>> Note the OS differences (while obviously using the SAME library)!?
>> 
>> Is this an error in the dictionary or does the "speechspeak..." stuff
>> really not work on Windows? Thanks for any insight!

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From merakosp at gmail.com  Mon Aug 12 10:23:30 2024
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2024 17:23:30 +0300
Subject: revSpeak/speechSpeakutterance?
In-Reply-To: <CABB3D4B-536B-4CEA-8F81-E0CD219154FA@major-k.de>
References: <B4CE18B2-20A5-48E8-AA31-F4BF6C85AFBA@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq9+eTFBa2i9JN3sZ32AhADLTYWJqN2=qb8x0Uj1JiD9kQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABB3D4B-536B-4CEA-8F81-E0CD219154FA@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq9MWYVWF-99KuQn7YrOO2CBoUu5isStKtWBt25c4R2HpA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Klaus,

Yes, indeed, we should make it clearer :)

Kind regards,
Panos
--

On Mon, 12 Aug 2024 at 16:58, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Panos,
>
> > Am 12.08.2024 um 15:36 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> >
> > Hello Klaus,
> >
> > It is not the same library:
> > - The "revSpeak" one is the old speech library, implemented in the engine
> > level, available for Windows and macOS
> > - The "speechSpeakUtterance" is the new speech library, implemented in
> LCB,
> > available for macOS, Android, iOS
>
> ah, I see, thank you for clarification!
>
> But then this should be made clear in the dictionary!
> Entry for revSpeak:
> ...
> Associations: Speech library
> ...
>
> And:
> ...
> Entry for speechSpeakUtterance:
> ...
> Associations: Speech Library
> ...
>
> See what I mean? That was puzzling me. :-)
>
> > Also, each one of them has a slightly different feature set - see the
> > dictionary for more details.
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > Panos
> > --
> >
> > On Sun, 11 Aug 2024 at 14:44, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi friends,
> >>
> >> I am currently exploring the revspeak stuff, but the dictionary
> >> does in fact irritate me a lot?
> >>
> >> Entry for revSpeak:
> >> Type: command
> >> Syntax: revSpeak phraseToSpeak
> >> Associations: Speech library
> >> Summary: Speaks text through the computer's speakers.Introduced2.0
> >> OS: mac, windows
> >>
> >> Entry for speechSpeakUtterance:
> >> Type: handler
> >> Syntax: speechSpeakUtterance(pString)
> >> Associations: Speech Library
> >> Summary: Synthesize text to speech
> >> OS: mac, ios, android
> >>
> >> Note the OS differences (while obviously using the SAME library)!?
> >>
> >> Is this an error in the dictionary or does the "speechspeak..." stuff
> >> really not work on Windows? Thanks for any insight!
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
>
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From prothero at ucsb.edu  Mon Aug 12 11:33:15 2024
From: prothero at ucsb.edu (William Prothero)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2024 08:33:15 -0700
Subject: Live LiveCode Create demo - join us tomorrow
In-Reply-To: <5e802682-bec2-70e7-2f6b-6f6d77b147c4@tkf.att.ne.jp>
References: <5e802682-bec2-70e7-2f6b-6f6d77b147c4@tkf.att.ne.jp>
Message-ID: <99326652-F477-4A3F-A86B-8D3BFF1B2324@ucsb.edu>

me, too,
Bill Prothero 
William A. Prothero, PhD
Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science
University of California, Santa Barbara

> On Aug 12, 2024, at 5:25 AM, Tim Selander via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Heather,
> 
> Being in Japan, the time (midnight) is a little too late for this old man! Any chance it will be recorded? I would love to watch it later.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Tim Selander
> 
> 
>> On 2024/08/12 19:34, Heather Laine via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hello List Folks,
>> Just to make you aware, we are holding an open webinar tomorrow, at 4pm UK time, where we will be demo'ing LiveCode Create and taking questions. If you'd like to take part please go here to sign up:
>> https://us02web.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_EAjwE614Q9Wi_366Y7b0vw
>> When you go to this link Zoom will tell you what time it is in your timezone.
>> Best Regards,
>> Heather
>> Heather Laine
>> Customer Services Manager
>> LiveCode Ltd
>> www.livecode.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Mon Aug 12 11:42:34 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2024 15:42:34 +0000
Subject: revSpeak/speechSpeakutterance?
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq9+eTFBa2i9JN3sZ32AhADLTYWJqN2=qb8x0Uj1JiD9kQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B4CE18B2-20A5-48E8-AA31-F4BF6C85AFBA@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq9+eTFBa2i9JN3sZ32AhADLTYWJqN2=qb8x0Uj1JiD9kQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5014404B-8C6E-4E22-86BF-525D35EB3E92@iotecdigital.com>

revSpeak works, speechSpeakUtterance does not. 

Bob S


> On Aug 12, 2024, at 6:36 AM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello Klaus,
> 
> It is not the same library:
> 
> - The "revSpeak" one is the old speech library, implemented in the engine
> level, available for Windows and macOS
> 
> - The "speechSpeakUtterance" is the new speech library, implemented in LCB,
> available for macOS, Android, iOS
> 
> Also, each one of them has a slightly different feature set - see the
> dictionary for more details.
> 
> Kind regards,
> Panos
> --
> 
> On Sun, 11 Aug 2024 at 14:44, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hi friends,
>> 
>> I am currently exploring the revspeak stuff, but the dictionary
>> does in fact irritate me a lot?
>> 
>> Entry for revSpeak:
>> Type: command
>> Syntax: revSpeak phraseToSpeak
>> Associations: Speech library
>> Summary: Speaks text through the computer's speakers.Introduced2.0
>> OS: mac, windows
>> 
>> Entry for speechSpeakUtterance:
>> Type: handler
>> Syntax: speechSpeakUtterance(pString)
>> Associations: Speech Library
>> Summary: Synthesize text to speech
>> OS: mac, ios, android
>> 
>> Note the OS differences (while obviously using the SAME library)!?
>> 
>> Is this an error in the dictionary or does the "speechspeak..." stuff
>> really not work on Windows? Thanks for any insight!
>> 
>> 
>> Best
>> 
>> Klaus
>> --
>> Klaus Major
>> https://www.major-k.de
>> https://www.major-k.de/bass
>> klaus at major-k.de
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Mon Aug 12 12:00:32 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2024 16:00:32 +0000
Subject: revSpeak/speechSpeakutterance?
In-Reply-To: <5014404B-8C6E-4E22-86BF-525D35EB3E92@iotecdigital.com>
References: <B4CE18B2-20A5-48E8-AA31-F4BF6C85AFBA@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq9+eTFBa2i9JN3sZ32AhADLTYWJqN2=qb8x0Uj1JiD9kQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5014404B-8C6E-4E22-86BF-525D35EB3E92@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <1F58FD2F-5223-4388-8188-90078376FC49@iotecdigital.com>

OIC it only works in Livecode Builder. NVM.

Bob S


On Aug 12, 2024, at 8:42 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

revSpeak works, speechSpeakUtterance does not.

Bob S


On Aug 12, 2024, at 6:36 AM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

Hello Klaus,

It is not the same library:

- The "revSpeak" one is the old speech library, implemented in the engine
level, available for Windows and macOS

- The "speechSpeakUtterance" is the new speech library, implemented in LCB,
available for macOS, Android, iOS

Also, each one of them has a slightly different feature set - see the
dictionary for more details.

Kind regards,
Panos


From merakosp at gmail.com  Mon Aug 12 13:04:10 2024
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2024 20:04:10 +0300
Subject: revSpeak/speechSpeakutterance?
In-Reply-To: <1F58FD2F-5223-4388-8188-90078376FC49@iotecdigital.com>
References: <B4CE18B2-20A5-48E8-AA31-F4BF6C85AFBA@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq9+eTFBa2i9JN3sZ32AhADLTYWJqN2=qb8x0Uj1JiD9kQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5014404B-8C6E-4E22-86BF-525D35EB3E92@iotecdigital.com>
 <1F58FD2F-5223-4388-8188-90078376FC49@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq_YyYtmc=nDXT0-PNZ+_sSbCkPrZ1hJZf7o=gyhS67BNA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Bob,

The speechSpeakUtterance should work. The library is *implemented *in LCB,
but its handlers (such as "speechSpeakUtterance") should be called from LCS
(LiveCode Script)

Make sure you initialize the library first by calling
speechInitializeLibrary.
See the dictionary for more details.

Kind regards,
Panos
--




On Mon, 12 Aug 2024 at 19:01, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> OIC it only works in Livecode Builder. NVM.
>
> Bob S
>
>
> On Aug 12, 2024, at 8:42 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> revSpeak works, speechSpeakUtterance does not.
>
> Bob S
>
>
> On Aug 12, 2024, at 6:36 AM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>
> wrote:
>
> Hello Klaus,
>
> It is not the same library:
>
> - The "revSpeak" one is the old speech library, implemented in the engine
> level, available for Windows and macOS
>
> - The "speechSpeakUtterance" is the new speech library, implemented in LCB,
> available for macOS, Android, iOS
>
> Also, each one of them has a slightly different feature set - see the
> dictionary for more details.
>
> Kind regards,
> Panos
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From heather at livecode.com  Mon Aug 12 13:05:41 2024
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2024 18:05:41 +0100
Subject: Live LiveCode Create demo - join us tomorrow
In-Reply-To: <99326652-F477-4A3F-A86B-8D3BFF1B2324@ucsb.edu>
References: <5e802682-bec2-70e7-2f6b-6f6d77b147c4@tkf.att.ne.jp>
 <99326652-F477-4A3F-A86B-8D3BFF1B2324@ucsb.edu>
Message-ID: <20DE6D0B-5382-4566-B795-85104C2F5BF1@livecode.com>

We'll record it. If you register for the webinar you will get access to the recording.

Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 12 Aug 2024, at 16:33, William Prothero via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> me, too,
> Bill Prothero 
> William A. Prothero, PhD
> Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science
> University of California, Santa Barbara
> 
>> On Aug 12, 2024, at 5:25 AM, Tim Selander via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Heather,
>> 
>> Being in Japan, the time (midnight) is a little too late for this old man! Any chance it will be recorded? I would love to watch it later.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Tim Selander
>> 
>> 
>>> On 2024/08/12 19:34, Heather Laine via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Hello List Folks,
>>> Just to make you aware, we are holding an open webinar tomorrow, at 4pm UK time, where we will be demo'ing LiveCode Create and taking questions. If you'd like to take part please go here to sign up:
>>> https://us02web.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_EAjwE614Q9Wi_366Y7b0vw
>>> When you go to this link Zoom will tell you what time it is in your timezone.
>>> Best Regards,
>>> Heather
>>> Heather Laine
>>> Customer Services Manager
>>> LiveCode Ltd
>>> www.livecode.com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Mon Aug 12 13:14:42 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2024 17:14:42 +0000
Subject: revSpeak/speechSpeakutterance?
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq_YyYtmc=nDXT0-PNZ+_sSbCkPrZ1hJZf7o=gyhS67BNA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B4CE18B2-20A5-48E8-AA31-F4BF6C85AFBA@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq9+eTFBa2i9JN3sZ32AhADLTYWJqN2=qb8x0Uj1JiD9kQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5014404B-8C6E-4E22-86BF-525D35EB3E92@iotecdigital.com>
 <1F58FD2F-5223-4388-8188-90078376FC49@iotecdigital.com>
 <CA+JfEq_YyYtmc=nDXT0-PNZ+_sSbCkPrZ1hJZf7o=gyhS67BNA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7DB6C5C2-CE41-41E3-8562-BD08FFDF2AC1@iotecdigital.com>

Thanks. As usual, I didn’t read the manual. It works, but I can’t get or change the voices. Not sure if I can get more voices. I tried, “I’m sorry Dave, I’m afraid I can’t let you do that.” but it sounded like Hal had most of his modules removed already. ;-)

I will poke around on the internet.

Bob S


On Aug 12, 2024, at 10:04 AM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

Hello Bob,

The speechSpeakUtterance should work. The library is *implemented *in LCB,
but its handlers (such as "speechSpeakUtterance") should be called from LCS
(LiveCode Script)

Make sure you initialize the library first by calling
speechInitializeLibrary.
See the dictionary for more details.

Kind regards,
Panos
--




On Mon, 12 Aug 2024 at 19:01, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

OIC it only works in Livecode Builder. NVM.

Bob S


On Aug 12, 2024, at 8:42 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

revSpeak works, speechSpeakUtterance does not.

Bob S


On Aug 12, 2024, at 6:36 AM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com><mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>
wrote:

Hello Klaus,

It is not the same library:

- The "revSpeak" one is the old speech library, implemented in the engine
level, available for Windows and macOS

- The "speechSpeakUtterance" is the new speech library, implemented in LCB,
available for macOS, Android, iOS

Also, each one of them has a slightly different feature set - see the
dictionary for more details.

Kind regards,
Panos

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From mkoob at rogers.com  Mon Aug 12 17:29:11 2024
From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2024 17:29:11 -0400
Subject: Live LiveCode Create demo - join us tomorrow
In-Reply-To: <20DE6D0B-5382-4566-B795-85104C2F5BF1@livecode.com>
References: <5e802682-bec2-70e7-2f6b-6f6d77b147c4@tkf.att.ne.jp>
 <99326652-F477-4A3F-A86B-8D3BFF1B2324@ucsb.edu>
 <20DE6D0B-5382-4566-B795-85104C2F5BF1@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <3ABB2DC8-EC1F-4A97-873E-D1EAED9C30A4@rogers.com>

Hi

Congratulations to Kevin and the team on getting to this point with LiveCode Create!

I will have to miss the webinar too.  I have a conflict with a work meeting then…  Stupid work meeting!  
               
 |             |
 |   Grrrr     |
 |             |
     |/
   😠
So this is not a critisim nor a demand, just a wish.   I wish there was a matinee demo - a second chance on a diferent day and a different time to see the Live Demo of the latest update with the new features and to be able ask questions regarding those.  

I know there is a lot of work around hosting these and then a staff person or 2 (and probably plus Heather or Kevin) has to get up early or stay up late.

So I will watch the recording and send my questions.  

Where should I direct my support queries now that LC Create has been launched?
Where should bug reports be posted from this point on.

Best regards,

Martin Koob

> On Aug 12, 2024, at 1:05 PM, Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> We'll record it. If you register for the webinar you will get access to the recording.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On 12 Aug 2024, at 16:33, William Prothero via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> me, too,
>> Bill Prothero 
>> William A. Prothero, PhD
>> Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science
>> University of California, Santa Barbara
>> 
>>> On Aug 12, 2024, at 5:25 AM, Tim Selander via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Heather,
>>> 
>>> Being in Japan, the time (midnight) is a little too late for this old man! Any chance it will be recorded? I would love to watch it later.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> Tim Selander
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 2024/08/12 19:34, Heather Laine via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> Hello List Folks,
>>>> Just to make you aware, we are holding an open webinar tomorrow, at 4pm UK time, where we will be demo'ing LiveCode Create and taking questions. If you'd like to take part please go here to sign up:
>>>> https://us02web.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_EAjwE614Q9Wi_366Y7b0vw
>>>> When you go to this link Zoom will tell you what time it is in your timezone.
>>>> Best Regards,
>>>> Heather
>>>> Heather Laine
>>>> Customer Services Manager
>>>> LiveCode Ltd
>>>> www.livecode.com
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From heather at livecode.com  Tue Aug 13 06:14:56 2024
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2024 11:14:56 +0100
Subject: Live LiveCode Create demo - join us tomorrow
In-Reply-To: <3ABB2DC8-EC1F-4A97-873E-D1EAED9C30A4@rogers.com>
References: <5e802682-bec2-70e7-2f6b-6f6d77b147c4@tkf.att.ne.jp>
 <99326652-F477-4A3F-A86B-8D3BFF1B2324@ucsb.edu>
 <20DE6D0B-5382-4566-B795-85104C2F5BF1@livecode.com>
 <3ABB2DC8-EC1F-4A97-873E-D1EAED9C30A4@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <0ECAB7D8-6240-470F-882D-833E3DCB8237@livecode.com>

Thanks Martin. We'll have a think whether we can do a repeat at a different time.

Support queries still go to support at livecode.com.

Feedback, bug reports and discussion around LiveCode Create specifically go here:

https://discourse.livecode.com

Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 12 Aug 2024, at 22:29, Martin Koob via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi
> 
> Congratulations to Kevin and the team on getting to this point with LiveCode Create!
> 
> I will have to miss the webinar too.  I have a conflict with a work meeting then…  Stupid work meeting!  
> 
> |             |
> |   Grrrr     |
> |             |
>     |/
>   😠
> So this is not a critisim nor a demand, just a wish.   I wish there was a matinee demo - a second chance on a diferent day and a different time to see the Live Demo of the latest update with the new features and to be able ask questions regarding those.  
> 
> I know there is a lot of work around hosting these and then a staff person or 2 (and probably plus Heather or Kevin) has to get up early or stay up late.
> 
> So I will watch the recording and send my questions.  
> 
> Where should I direct my support queries now that LC Create has been launched?
> Where should bug reports be posted from this point on.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Martin Koob
> 
>> On Aug 12, 2024, at 1:05 PM, Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> We'll record it. If you register for the webinar you will get access to the recording.
>> 
>> Best Regards,
>> 
>> Heather
>> 
>> Heather Laine
>> Customer Services Manager
>> LiveCode Ltd
>> www.livecode.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 12 Aug 2024, at 16:33, William Prothero via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> me, too,
>>> Bill Prothero 
>>> William A. Prothero, PhD
>>> Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science
>>> University of California, Santa Barbara
>>> 
>>>> On Aug 12, 2024, at 5:25 AM, Tim Selander via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Heather,
>>>> 
>>>> Being in Japan, the time (midnight) is a little too late for this old man! Any chance it will be recorded? I would love to watch it later.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> 
>>>> Tim Selander
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On 2024/08/12 19:34, Heather Laine via use-livecode wrote:
>>>>> Hello List Folks,
>>>>> Just to make you aware, we are holding an open webinar tomorrow, at 4pm UK time, where we will be demo'ing LiveCode Create and taking questions. If you'd like to take part please go here to sign up:
>>>>> https://us02web.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_EAjwE614Q9Wi_366Y7b0vw
>>>>> When you go to this link Zoom will tell you what time it is in your timezone.
>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>> Heather
>>>>> Heather Laine
>>>>> Customer Services Manager
>>>>> LiveCode Ltd
>>>>> www.livecode.com
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From curry at pair.com  Tue Aug 13 07:20:11 2024
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2024 07:20:11 -0400
Subject: Live LiveCode Create demo - Application Payments portal
In-Reply-To: <20DE6D0B-5382-4566-B795-85104C2F5BF1@livecode.com>
References: <20DE6D0B-5382-4566-B795-85104C2F5BF1@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <390f0894-2a70-47e6-94c7-82fa361b0059@pair.com>


I also cannot attend a Zoom meeting now -

My watch-later absentee request:

Please demo the Application Payments portal interface/process to:

- 'upload your monthly sales figures' including
- 'the monthly reports from the app store/s you are shipping through.'

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
"PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
https://livecodeconsulting.com/


From alexm at cogapp.com  Tue Aug 13 08:32:39 2024
From: alexm at cogapp.com (Alex Morrison)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2024 13:32:39 +0100
Subject: Difficulty making a Mac app that works on another laptop
Message-ID: <8369F85D-37D2-4E74-893A-1F844A8C6656@cogapp.com>

Hi there,

I’m a LiveCode licensee with a Mac runtime license trying to make a desktop app that I can distribute to a few other people. 

I’ve adjusted all the obvious settings and made an app. The resulting app works fine on my own laptop, no problem. 

But when I send it to another laptop it won’t launch. The system throws a dialog which says: 

‘The application "my app" can’t be opened.’ 

Have tried right-click ‘Open’ and it’s no better. Same dialog. 

Taking the same LiveCode stack and making what feels like it should be an identical app with the same settings on my colleague Ben’s LiveCode system (he’s also a LiveCode licensee with a Mac runtime license), the app works fine on a different laptop. Right-click ‘Open’ works as it should. 

I’m a bit baffled. Any suggestions? 

all best

Alex

P.S. Just to say how grateful I am to Kevin and the mighty LiveCode team for such a great product over so many years. Thank you. Thank you. 

—

cogapp

building a better online world

Alex Morrison
Founder/Director
(he/him)

cogapp.com <https://www.cogapp.com/>

From alex at tweedly.net  Tue Aug 13 09:08:59 2024
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2024 14:08:59 +0100
Subject: Live LiveCode Create demo - join us tomorrow
In-Reply-To: <0ECAB7D8-6240-470F-882D-833E3DCB8237@livecode.com>
References: <5e802682-bec2-70e7-2f6b-6f6d77b147c4@tkf.att.ne.jp>
 <99326652-F477-4A3F-A86B-8D3BFF1B2324@ucsb.edu>
 <20DE6D0B-5382-4566-B795-85104C2F5BF1@livecode.com>
 <3ABB2DC8-EC1F-4A97-873E-D1EAED9C30A4@rogers.com>
 <0ECAB7D8-6240-470F-882D-833E3DCB8237@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <f552bccf-f1d2-46b8-92a8-1216a9128952@tweedly.net>


On 13/08/2024 11:14, Heather Laine via use-livecode wrote:
> Thanks Martin. We'll have a think whether we can do a repeat at a different time.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Heather
>
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com

Rather than an entire repeat, maybe just have a Q&A session for those 
who couldn't attend the original, but have watched the recording. Should 
be just as effective, and less resource intensive.

Alex.




From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Tue Aug 13 09:34:35 2024
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2024 15:34:35 +0200
Subject: Difficulty making a Mac app that works on another laptop
In-Reply-To: <8369F85D-37D2-4E74-893A-1F844A8C6656@cogapp.com>
References: <8369F85D-37D2-4E74-893A-1F844A8C6656@cogapp.com>
Message-ID: <86C77D08-934C-42ED-99C7-31003993CDB4@m-r-d.de>

Does the app, which was created on your colleagues computer run on your Mac?
Do all Macs have the same OS installed? Do you both have the same version of LC installed?
Did you already check the settings under Privacy&Security?.


Von meinem iPad gesendet

> Am 13.08.2024 um 14:34 schrieb Alex Morrison via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi there,
> 
> I’m a LiveCode licensee with a Mac runtime license trying to make a desktop app that I can distribute to a few other people.
> 
> I’ve adjusted all the obvious settings and made an app. The resulting app works fine on my own laptop, no problem.
> 
> But when I send it to another laptop it won’t launch. The system throws a dialog which says:
> 
> ‘The application "my app" can’t be opened.’
> 
> Have tried right-click ‘Open’ and it’s no better. Same dialog.
> 
> Taking the same LiveCode stack and making what feels like it should be an identical app with the same settings on my colleague Ben’s LiveCode system (he’s also a LiveCode licensee with a Mac runtime license), the app works fine on a different laptop. Right-click ‘Open’ works as it should.
> 
> I’m a bit baffled. Any suggestions?
> 
> all best
> 
> Alex
> 
> P.S. Just to say how grateful I am to Kevin and the mighty LiveCode team for such a great product over so many years. Thank you. Thank you.
> 
> —
> 
> cogapp
> 
> building a better online world
> 
> Alex Morrison
> Founder/Director
> (he/him)
> 
> cogapp.com <https://www.cogapp.com/>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From craig at starfirelighting.com  Tue Aug 13 10:00:34 2024
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2024 10:00:34 -0400
Subject: Difficulty making a Mac app that works on another laptop
In-Reply-To: <86C77D08-934C-42ED-99C7-31003993CDB4@m-r-d.de>
References: <8369F85D-37D2-4E74-893A-1F844A8C6656@cogapp.com>
 <86C77D08-934C-42ED-99C7-31003993CDB4@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <888D0321-A83A-42F0-9737-D5C25A6BC177@starfirelighting.com>

Matthias:

"Does the app, which was created on your colleagues computer run on your Mac?”

The OP said he developed the app on his own machine.

Craig

> On Aug 13, 2024, at 9:34 AM, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Does the app, which was created on your colleagues computer run on your Mac?


From smk at anvic.net  Tue Aug 13 10:09:38 2024
From: smk at anvic.net (Simon Knight)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2024 15:09:38 +0100
Subject: Difficulty making a Mac app that works on another laptop
In-Reply-To: <8369F85D-37D2-4E74-893A-1F844A8C6656@cogapp.com>
References: <8369F85D-37D2-4E74-893A-1F844A8C6656@cogapp.com>
Message-ID: <B5BE18A3-8F02-4A56-BA4D-88446ACA1D81@anvic.net>

Hi,
Does the built application icon look as it should?'
Are the laptops all using the same chip set e.g. powerpc, intel or Arm?
Are the build settings correct?
Can you view package contents?

S

> On 13 Aug 2024, at 13:32, Alex Morrison via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi there,
> 
> I’m a LiveCode licensee with a Mac runtime license trying to make a desktop app that I can distribute to a few other people. 
> 
> I’ve adjusted all the obvious settings and made an app. The resulting app works fine on my own laptop, no problem. 
> 
> But when I send it to another laptop it won’t launch. The system throws a dialog which says: 
> 
> ‘The application "my app" can’t be opened.’ 
> 
> Have tried right-click ‘Open’ and it’s no better. Same dialog. 
> 
> Taking the same LiveCode stack and making what feels like it should be an identical app with the same settings on my colleague Ben’s LiveCode system (he’s also a LiveCode licensee with a Mac runtime license), the app works fine on a different laptop. Right-click ‘Open’ works as it should. 
> 
> I’m a bit baffled. Any suggestions? 
> 
> all best
> 
> Alex
> 
> P.S. Just to say how grateful I am to Kevin and the mighty LiveCode team for such a great product over so many years. Thank you. Thank you. 
> 
> —
> 
> cogapp
> 
> building a better online world
> 
> Alex Morrison
> Founder/Director
> (he/him)
> 
> cogapp.com <https://www.cogapp.com/>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Tue Aug 13 10:14:04 2024
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2024 16:14:04 +0200
Subject: Difficulty making a Mac app that works on another laptop
In-Reply-To: <888D0321-A83A-42F0-9737-D5C25A6BC177@starfirelighting.com>
References: <888D0321-A83A-42F0-9737-D5C25A6BC177@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <18213B94-0422-4EF7-8491-C97C9FB7E14C@m-r-d.de>

He also said, that  building the app on his colleagues Livecode installation creates an app that can be opened on his colleagues computer. And i wanted to know if that app can also be opened on the OP‘s computer. 

Von meinem iPad gesendet

> Am 13.08.2024 um 16:02 schrieb Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Matthias:
> 
> "Does the app, which was created on your colleagues computer run on your Mac?”
> 
> The OP said he developed the app on his own machine.
> 
> Craig
> 
>> On Aug 13, 2024, at 9:34 AM, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Does the app, which was created on your colleagues computer run on your Mac?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From georges at caen.one  Tue Aug 13 10:15:09 2024
From: georges at caen.one (Georges Malamoud)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2024 16:15:09 +0200
Subject: Difficulty making a Mac app that works on another laptop
In-Reply-To: <ACA21DED-7A02-4351-98B6-C24ED7886ECC@caen.one>
References: <46af36ff0f63bf8de9e97383565f6728@caen.one>
 <ACA21DED-7A02-4351-98B6-C24ED7886ECC@caen.one>
Message-ID: <EBED4F6F-6F98-4D46-B665-560B117F6965@caen.one>

Hello
It is a standard issue on Mac. Apple protects their systems for non officially code signed apps.
There are some procedures to circumvent this with your app
- if you are an Apple official developer (like me) you have to include a developer certificate in you app
instructions here
https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/c/246840
including
https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1088036-signing-and-notarizing-macos-apps-for-gatekeeper
or better yet
https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1122100-codesigning-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore-with-xcode-10-to-12
- if you are not… there are some solutions via Google (code signing Mac app) or here 
https://signmycode.com/resources/code-signing-with-mac-codesign-utility
but you must know what tou do


> But when I send it to another laptop it won’t launch. The system throws a dialog which says: 
> 
> ‘The application "my app" can’t be opened.’

From colinholgate at gmail.com  Tue Aug 13 12:41:35 2024
From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2024 10:41:35 -0600
Subject: Difficulty making a Mac app that works on another laptop
In-Reply-To: <EBED4F6F-6F98-4D46-B665-560B117F6965@caen.one>
References: <46af36ff0f63bf8de9e97383565f6728@caen.one>
 <ACA21DED-7A02-4351-98B6-C24ED7886ECC@caen.one>
 <EBED4F6F-6F98-4D46-B665-560B117F6965@caen.one>
Message-ID: <67BA4949-CF45-41D1-B868-889FC7A110A9@gmail.com>

I tried a standalone app on another computer, and sure enough got the message about it not being able to open. But, the usual work around of right-click, Open, does work.

From stephen at barncard.com  Tue Aug 13 13:11:11 2024
From: stephen at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2024 10:11:11 -0700
Subject: Live LiveCode Create demo - Application Payments portal
In-Reply-To: <390f0894-2a70-47e6-94c7-82fa361b0059@pair.com>
References: <20DE6D0B-5382-4566-B795-85104C2F5BF1@livecode.com>
 <390f0894-2a70-47e6-94c7-82fa361b0059@pair.com>
Message-ID: <CAFmQfHLQff0M01tkjZg6L47TgVi1s_0+Z1+GxNS4GCXZjJQ9AA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi gang,
I missed the webinar. I have been working on the other side of the clock.
Is it possible to see a recording?

sqb
--
Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA -
mixstream.org


On Tue, Aug 13, 2024 at 4:21 AM Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>
> I also cannot attend a Zoom meeting now -
>
> My watch-later absentee request:
>
> Please demo the Application Payments portal interface/process to:
>
> - 'upload your monthly sales figures' including
> - 'the monthly reports from the app store/s you are shipping through.'
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Curry Kenworthy
>
> Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
> "PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
> https://livecodeconsulting.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Tue Aug 13 13:19:47 2024
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2024 18:19:47 +0100
Subject: Live LiveCode Create demo - Application Payments portal
In-Reply-To: <CAFmQfHLQff0M01tkjZg6L47TgVi1s_0+Z1+GxNS4GCXZjJQ9AA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFmQfHLQff0M01tkjZg6L47TgVi1s_0+Z1+GxNS4GCXZjJQ9AA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D2692738-F442-4D5E-B58A-9C6ECB8E1A86@gmail.com>

Hi Stephen, I’ll jump in for Heather. If you registered you will be sent a link to the recording (she said). It was a good demonstration and answered a lot of questions.

Mark

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 13, 2024, at 6:12 PM, Stephen Barncard via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi gang,
> I missed the webinar. I have been working on the other side of the clock.
> Is it possible to see a recording?
> 
> sqb
> --
> Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA -
> mixstream.org
> 
> 
>> On Tue, Aug 13, 2024 at 4:21 AM Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> I also cannot attend a Zoom meeting now -
>> 
>> My watch-later absentee request:
>> 
>> Please demo the Application Payments portal interface/process to:
>> 
>> - 'upload your monthly sales figures' including
>> - 'the monthly reports from the app store/s you are shipping through.'
>> 
>> Best wishes,
>> 
>> Curry Kenworthy
>> 
>> Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
>> "PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
>> https://livecodeconsulting.com/
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From benr_mc at cogapp.com  Tue Aug 13 16:24:59 2024
From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2024 21:24:59 +0100
Subject: A Windows weirdness
Message-ID: <c9586a20-db21-4824-8bb9-a0814010e8c9@cogapp.com>

An app running nightly by schedule on a Windows VM stopped working when the IT 
department cracked down on security, downgrading the privileges of the user. 
When this was reversed - and they swore there were no other changes - it still 
didn't work properly because it failed to read some local data files.

It turned out that the issue was that I was reading the data as
	put URL format("binfile://%s", tPath) into tData

this was working, but now returned "can't open file". Changing the statement to
	put URL format("binfile:%s", tPath) into tData

fixed the issue, so it's fine. But my question would be does anyone know what 
would have changed on the system to make this statement, that used to work, do 
so no longer?

Many thanks,

Ben


From paul at researchware.com  Tue Aug 13 16:42:49 2024
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2024 16:42:49 -0400
Subject: A Windows weirdness
In-Reply-To: <c9586a20-db21-4824-8bb9-a0814010e8c9@cogapp.com>
References: <c9586a20-db21-4824-8bb9-a0814010e8c9@cogapp.com>
Message-ID: <44c4bdc0-b831-4733-9a52-a5ad34ccc334@researchware.com>

I'm guessing here:

Paths on local Windows systems are typically 
driveletter:folder\folder\...\file.extension
Window scan use UNC paths, such as:

|\\Server2\Share\Test\Foo.txt|
||
When we had our first customer who was extensively using UNC paths, our 
software broke until we updated it to allow for both style of Windows 
paths to be handled properly.

Windows backslash \ gets converted to a / in most LC file paths (for 
example, the result of a open or save file dialog

Perhaps the IT did something to require only UNC paths and the // after 
the binfile had it look for a server rather than a local file?


On 8/13/2024 4:24 PM, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode wrote:
> An app running nightly by schedule on a Windows VM stopped working 
> when the IT department cracked down on security, downgrading the 
> privileges of the user. When this was reversed - and they swore there 
> were no other changes - it still didn't work properly because it 
> failed to read some local data files.
>
> It turned out that the issue was that I was reading the data as
>     put URL format("binfile://%s", tPath) into tData
>
> this was working, but now returned "can't open file". Changing the 
> statement to
>     put URL format("binfile:%s", tPath) into tData
>
> fixed the issue, so it's fine. But my question would be does anyone 
> know what would have changed on the system to make this statement, 
> that used to work, do so no longer?
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Ben
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

From mark at livecode.com  Wed Aug 14 04:07:06 2024
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2024 09:07:06 +0100
Subject: A Windows weirdness
In-Reply-To: <c9586a20-db21-4824-8bb9-a0814010e8c9@cogapp.com>
References: <c9586a20-db21-4824-8bb9-a0814010e8c9@cogapp.com>
Message-ID: <c6dbb001df2c632897d061e2605b55e1@livecode.com>

On 2024-08-13 21:24, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode wrote:
> It turned out that the issue was that I was reading the data as
> 	put URL format("binfile://%s", tPath) into tData
> 
> this was working, but now returned "can't open file". Changing the 
> statement to
> 	put URL format("binfile:%s", tPath) into tData

Can you give some examples of what tPath is in these circumstances? Just 
to see what sort of paths the engine would have actually have been 
passing to Windows.

> fixed the issue, so it's fine. But my question would be does anyone 
> know what would have changed on the system to make this statement, that 
> used to work, do so no longer?

I suspect Paul is right that this is UNC related - there have been some 
security options added related to UNC paths to windows (buried somewhere 
in the registry) so it could be that but I'm not 100% sure (I'll do some 
experimentation later on).

What version of Windows does the afflicted machine have?

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things


From heather at livecode.com  Wed Aug 14 13:12:33 2024
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2024 18:12:33 +0100
Subject: Live LiveCode Create demo - Application Payments portal
In-Reply-To: <CAFmQfHLQff0M01tkjZg6L47TgVi1s_0+Z1+GxNS4GCXZjJQ9AA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20DE6D0B-5382-4566-B795-85104C2F5BF1@livecode.com>
 <390f0894-2a70-47e6-94c7-82fa361b0059@pair.com>
 <CAFmQfHLQff0M01tkjZg6L47TgVi1s_0+Z1+GxNS4GCXZjJQ9AA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <18760B0E-DDC2-44A4-91A7-F77D0851F67B@livecode.com>

Folks, it did take us all day owing to the number of questions but we now have a page up, with the recording and (I hope!) all your questions answered in text as well.

https://future.livecode.com/live-demo-your-questions-answered/

Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 13 Aug 2024, at 18:11, Stephen Barncard via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi gang,
> I missed the webinar. I have been working on the other side of the clock.
> Is it possible to see a recording?
> 
> sqb
> --
> Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA -
> mixstream.org
> 
> 
> On Tue, Aug 13, 2024 at 4:21 AM Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> I also cannot attend a Zoom meeting now -
>> 
>> My watch-later absentee request:
>> 
>> Please demo the Application Payments portal interface/process to:
>> 
>> - 'upload your monthly sales figures' including
>> - 'the monthly reports from the app store/s you are shipping through.'
>> 
>> Best wishes,
>> 
>> Curry Kenworthy
>> 
>> Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
>> "PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
>> https://livecodeconsulting.com/
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Wed Aug 14 17:46:38 2024
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2024 22:46:38 +0100
Subject: Live LiveCode Create demo - Application Payments portal
In-Reply-To: <18760B0E-DDC2-44A4-91A7-F77D0851F67B@livecode.com>
References: <20DE6D0B-5382-4566-B795-85104C2F5BF1@livecode.com>
 <390f0894-2a70-47e6-94c7-82fa361b0059@pair.com>
 <CAFmQfHLQff0M01tkjZg6L47TgVi1s_0+Z1+GxNS4GCXZjJQ9AA@mail.gmail.com>
 <18760B0E-DDC2-44A4-91A7-F77D0851F67B@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <BB2C620F-12B9-42D4-84B8-E1C7F6BED51A@gmail.com>

Brilliant, thanks Heather. 

> On 14 Aug 2024, at 6:12 PM, Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Folks, it did take us all day owing to the number of questions but we now have a page up, with the recording and (I hope!) all your questions answered in text as well.
> 
> https://future.livecode.com/live-demo-your-questions-answered/
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On 13 Aug 2024, at 18:11, Stephen Barncard via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi gang,
>> I missed the webinar. I have been working on the other side of the clock.
>> Is it possible to see a recording?
>> 
>> sqb
>> --
>> Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA -
>> mixstream.org
>> 
>> 
>> On Tue, Aug 13, 2024 at 4:21 AM Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> I also cannot attend a Zoom meeting now -
>>> 
>>> My watch-later absentee request:
>>> 
>>> Please demo the Application Payments portal interface/process to:
>>> 
>>> - 'upload your monthly sales figures' including
>>> - 'the monthly reports from the app store/s you are shipping through.'
>>> 
>>> Best wishes,
>>> 
>>> Curry Kenworthy
>>> 
>>> Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
>>> "PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
>>> https://livecodeconsulting.com/
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Wed Aug 14 17:50:57 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2024 21:50:57 +0000
Subject: Live LiveCode Create demo - Application Payments portal
In-Reply-To: <18760B0E-DDC2-44A4-91A7-F77D0851F67B@livecode.com>
References: <20DE6D0B-5382-4566-B795-85104C2F5BF1@livecode.com>
 <390f0894-2a70-47e6-94c7-82fa361b0059@pair.com>
 <CAFmQfHLQff0M01tkjZg6L47TgVi1s_0+Z1+GxNS4GCXZjJQ9AA@mail.gmail.com>
 <18760B0E-DDC2-44A4-91A7-F77D0851F67B@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <DDCB42E8-53C3-4458-9997-87C0BC560840@iotecdigital.com>

From what I was able to watch live, it looks amazing. I especially like how much coding the widgets can alleviate (bug free BTW) and I can always go back and look at and modify the code if need be. 

When the time comes to migrate I will definitely take a look at this. 

Bob S


> On Aug 14, 2024, at 10:12 AM, Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Folks, it did take us all day owing to the number of questions but we now have a page up, with the recording and (I hope!) all your questions answered in text as well.
> 
> https://future.livecode.com/live-demo-your-questions-answered/
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On 13 Aug 2024, at 18:11, Stephen Barncard via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi gang,
>> I missed the webinar. I have been working on the other side of the clock.
>> Is it possible to see a recording?
>> 
>> sqb
>> --
>> Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA -
>> mixstream.org
>> 
>> 
>> On Tue, Aug 13, 2024 at 4:21 AM Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> I also cannot attend a Zoom meeting now -
>>> 
>>> My watch-later absentee request:
>>> 
>>> Please demo the Application Payments portal interface/process to:
>>> 
>>> - 'upload your monthly sales figures' including
>>> - 'the monthly reports from the app store/s you are shipping through.'
>>> 
>>> Best wishes,
>>> 
>>> Curry Kenworthy
>>> 
>>> Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
>>> "PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
>>> https://livecodeconsulting.com/
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From dvglasgow at gmail.com  Thu Aug 15 07:09:14 2024
From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David V Glasgow)
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2024 12:09:14 +0100
Subject: Live LiveCode Create demo 
In-Reply-To: <DDCB42E8-53C3-4458-9997-87C0BC560840@iotecdigital.com>
References: <20DE6D0B-5382-4566-B795-85104C2F5BF1@livecode.com>
 <390f0894-2a70-47e6-94c7-82fa361b0059@pair.com>
 <CAFmQfHLQff0M01tkjZg6L47TgVi1s_0+Z1+GxNS4GCXZjJQ9AA@mail.gmail.com>
 <18760B0E-DDC2-44A4-91A7-F77D0851F67B@livecode.com>
 <DDCB42E8-53C3-4458-9997-87C0BC560840@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <F498B987-BD3E-4E4D-B728-C4FB0583B30B@gmail.com>

Just caught up on this and really enjoyed it.  Obviously the team has been working hard, and created something really special.  

My question is conceptual, not a technical/features based one, so I am raising it here because I would be really interested in folks views.

Kevin states towards the end of the video that substacks are still there and still work, but LC folks are moving away from that metaphor in favour of ‘layouts’.  Now I had watched the whole video with my mental model being ‘layouts’ correspond to a (very smart)  group on a card.   In light of what Kevin said that must be wrong, but I can’t quite see how the Create metaphor maps onto  the ol’ Xtalk hierarchy of things.

Cheers

David G




From paul at researchware.com  Thu Aug 15 08:03:27 2024
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2024 08:03:27 -0400
Subject: Live LiveCode Create demo
In-Reply-To: <F498B987-BD3E-4E4D-B728-C4FB0583B30B@gmail.com>
References: <20DE6D0B-5382-4566-B795-85104C2F5BF1@livecode.com>
 <390f0894-2a70-47e6-94c7-82fa361b0059@pair.com>
 <CAFmQfHLQff0M01tkjZg6L47TgVi1s_0+Z1+GxNS4GCXZjJQ9AA@mail.gmail.com>
 <18760B0E-DDC2-44A4-91A7-F77D0851F67B@livecode.com>
 <DDCB42E8-53C3-4458-9997-87C0BC560840@iotecdigital.com>
 <F498B987-BD3E-4E4D-B728-C4FB0583B30B@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fe699668-4382-4bfb-8496-8a094a6b93ed@researchware.com>

Just speaking for myself.

I use substacks for different windows (modal or nonmodal) in my 
application. A substack rarely has more than one card, which has the 
controls for that window laid out the way I want them. Also, substacks 
can just be script libraries or other sorts of libraries (icons, images, 
etc.)

So I already use substack as different layouts in native apps. If moving 
to the web, they effectively become different "pages" (or screens or 
layouts of controls)

I think I have 1 app where I still use multiple cards to store data, one 
record per card. If I have a chance to redo this, the data will be 
stored in a property or variable and the stack will have a single "card" 
or layout where the current record of data is displayed as the user 
navigates through it.

For the most part, I already think of a substack as synonymous with a 
window/screen/page layout of controls for an app.


On 8/15/2024 7:09 AM, David V Glasgow via use-livecode wrote:
> Just caught up on this and really enjoyed it.  Obviously the team has been working hard, and created something really special.
>
> My question is conceptual, not a technical/features based one, so I am raising it here because I would be really interested in folks views.
>
> Kevin states towards the end of the video that substacks are still there and still work, but LC folks are moving away from that metaphor in favour of layouts.  Now I had watched the whole video with my mental model being layouts correspond to a (very smart)  group on a card.   In light of what Kevin said that must be wrong, but I cant quite see how the Create metaphor maps onto  the ol Xtalk hierarchy of things.
>
> Cheers
>
> David G
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From kevin at livecode.com  Thu Aug 15 08:57:05 2024
From: kevin at livecode.com (Kevin Miller)
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2024 13:57:05 +0100
Subject: Live LiveCode Create demo
In-Reply-To: <fe699668-4382-4bfb-8496-8a094a6b93ed@researchware.com>
References: <20DE6D0B-5382-4566-B795-85104C2F5BF1@livecode.com>
 <390f0894-2a70-47e6-94c7-82fa361b0059@pair.com>
 <CAFmQfHLQff0M01tkjZg6L47TgVi1s_0+Z1+GxNS4GCXZjJQ9AA@mail.gmail.com>
 <18760B0E-DDC2-44A4-91A7-F77D0851F67B@livecode.com>
 <DDCB42E8-53C3-4458-9997-87C0BC560840@iotecdigital.com>
 <F498B987-BD3E-4E4D-B728-C4FB0583B30B@gmail.com>
 <fe699668-4382-4bfb-8496-8a094a6b93ed@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <2EB1CDE8-0302-482C-9264-1317676EA54F@livecode.com>

Yes this is a great question, thanks for posting it.

We're looking to simplify the metaphors we use a little. The card/stack thing just doesn't seem to make as much sense as it did.

One of the main uses was to create a background group to have different records on each screen. That’s not really relevant in the new model where data is stored in the cloud data store and bound to objects.

Another major use was to place navigation controls on a screen and use a background group to do that. While in the current DP you do place those controls, we are working to create global navigation feature at project level which simply applies such a navigation bar without the need to drag them out onto each layout.

You then have "cards" as a concept meaning something entirely different in Material design, which is the design framework we've applied to Create.

All in all it just seems simpler to talk about a screen as a layout. Create multiple layouts and navigate between them. New users do appear to universally understand what a layout is (without the explanation that card/stack required).

All of that said, the underlying card/stack system is still there and a layout is really just a stack under the hood. So you can go on doing things the old way if you want to it will all work.

Kind regards, 

Kevin 

Kevin Miller ~ kevin at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ 
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things 




On 15/08/2024, 13:03, "use-livecode on behalf of Paul Dupuis via use-livecode" <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> on behalf of use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:



Just speaking for myself.


I use substacks for different windows (modal or nonmodal) in my 
application. A substack rarely has more than one card, which has the 
controls for that window laid out the way I want them. Also, substacks 
can just be script libraries or other sorts of libraries (icons, images, 
etc.)


So I already use substack as different layouts in native apps. If moving 
to the web, they effectively become different "pages" (or screens or 
layouts of controls)


I think I have 1 app where I still use multiple cards to store data, one 
record per card. If I have a chance to redo this, the data will be 
stored in a property or variable and the stack will have a single "card" 
or layout where the current record of data is displayed as the user 
navigates through it.


For the most part, I already think of a substack as synonymous with a 
window/screen/page layout of controls for an app.




On 8/15/2024 7:09 AM, David V Glasgow via use-livecode wrote:
> Just caught up on this and really enjoyed it. Obviously the team has been working hard, and created something really special.
>
> My question is conceptual, not a technical/features based one, so I am raising it here because I would be really interested in folks views.
>
> Kevin states towards the end of the video that substacks are still there and still work, but LC folks are moving away from that metaphor in favour of ‘layouts’. Now I had watched the whole video with my mental model being ‘layouts’ correspond to a (very smart) group on a card. In light of what Kevin said that must be wrong, but I can’t quite see how the Create metaphor maps onto the ol’ Xtalk hierarchy of things.
>
> Cheers
>
> David G
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode <http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode>




_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode <http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode>






From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Aug 15 09:36:30 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2024 15:36:30 +0200
Subject: Problems with revSetSpeechVoice
Message-ID: <0E404CCA-84B4-436D-BCC3-21C9293DD111@major-k.de>

Hi all,

I am currently working with the revSpeak library (needs to be 
crossplatform Mac and Win) and facing serious problems.

I have a field with all available voices, that I fill with:
-------------------------------------------
on mouseUp 
   put revSpeechVoices() into tVoices
   sort tVoices
   put textdecode(tVoices,"utf8") into fld "fi_voices"
end mouseUp
-------------------------------------------
textdecode is neccessary to preserve UMLAUTS like in:
Sandy (Französisch (Kanada))
## Sandy (French, Canada))

Now all the french voices do NOT work!
I tried:
----------------------
revSetSpeechVoice tVoice
## Where tVoice of course contains the above mentioned voice
----------------------

I even tried:
----------------------
put textencode(tVoice,"native") into tVoice2
revSetSpeechVoice tVoice2
----------------------
No dice, always reverts back to the "default" voice on my Mac.

Anything I am overlooking or is this a bug?
Did not find anthing in the "Quality center".

Any hint very welcome, thanks!


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From mark at livecode.com  Thu Aug 15 09:53:47 2024
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2024 14:53:47 +0100
Subject: Problems with revSetSpeechVoice
In-Reply-To: <0E404CCA-84B4-436D-BCC3-21C9293DD111@major-k.de>
References: <0E404CCA-84B4-436D-BCC3-21C9293DD111@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <f16bc770915f9f4c307a2208cbe893bb@livecode.com>

On 2024-08-15 14:36, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I am currently working with the revSpeak library (needs to be
> crossplatform Mac and Win) and facing serious problems.
> 
> I have a field with all available voices, that I fill with:
> -------------------------------------------
> on mouseUp
>    put revSpeechVoices() into tVoices
>    sort tVoices
>    put textdecode(tVoices,"utf8") into fld "fi_voices"
> end mouseUp
> -------------------------------------------
> textdecode is neccessary to preserve UMLAUTS like in:
> Sandy (Franzsisch (Kanada))
> ## Sandy (French, Canada))
> 
> Now all the french voices do NOT work!
> I tried:
> ----------------------
> revSetSpeechVoice tVoice
> ## Where tVoice of course contains the above mentioned voice
> ----------------------
> 
> I even tried:
> ----------------------
> put textencode(tVoice,"native") into tVoice2
> revSetSpeechVoice tVoice2
> ----------------------
> No dice, always reverts back to the "default" voice on my Mac.

Did you try:

----------------------
put textencode(tVoice,"utf8") into tVoice2
revSetSpeechVoice tVoice2
----------------------

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things


From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Aug 15 10:00:04 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2024 16:00:04 +0200
Subject: Problems with revSetSpeechVoice
In-Reply-To: <f16bc770915f9f4c307a2208cbe893bb@livecode.com>
References: <0E404CCA-84B4-436D-BCC3-21C9293DD111@major-k.de>
 <f16bc770915f9f4c307a2208cbe893bb@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <9E7C2174-0D19-4D2C-8BF5-5B335A91E639@major-k.de>

Hi Mark,

> Am 15.08.2024 um 15:53 schrieb Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> On 2024-08-15 14:36, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> I am currently working with the revSpeak library (needs to be
>> crossplatform Mac and Win) and facing serious problems.
>> I have a field with all available voices, that I fill with:
>> -------------------------------------------
>> on mouseUp
>>   put revSpeechVoices() into tVoices
>>   sort tVoices
>>   put textdecode(tVoices,"utf8") into fld "fi_voices"
>> end mouseUp
>> -------------------------------------------
>> textdecode is neccessary to preserve UMLAUTS like in:
>> Sandy (Französisch (Kanada))
>> ## Sandy (French, Canada))
>> Now all the french voices do NOT work!
>> I tried:
>> ----------------------
>> revSetSpeechVoice tVoice
>> ## Where tVoice of course contains the above mentioned voice
>> ----------------------
>> I even tried:
>> ----------------------
>> put textencode(tVoice,"native") into tVoice2
>> revSetSpeechVoice tVoice2
>> ----------------------
>> No dice, always reverts back to the "default" voice on my Mac.
> 
> Did you try:
> ----------------------
> put textencode(tVoice,"utf8") into tVoice2
> revSetSpeechVoice tVoice2
> ----------------------

obviously not, but that was the missing piece, works now!
Thanks a bunch! :-)

> Warmest Regards,
> 
> Mark.

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From georges at caen.one  Thu Aug 15 10:04:28 2024
From: georges at caen.one (Georges Malamoud)
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2024 16:04:28 +0200
Subject: Live LiveCode Create demo
In-Reply-To: <C42EF103-4DDF-4479-B4A4-C78EBA3D6C13@caen.one>
References: <46af36ff0f63bf8de9e97383565f6728@caen.one>
 <ACA21DED-7A02-4351-98B6-C24ED7886ECC@caen.one>
 <EBED4F6F-6F98-4D46-B665-560B117F6965@caen.one>
 <C42EF103-4DDF-4479-B4A4-C78EBA3D6C13@caen.one>
Message-ID: <E9FF0A53-CC3F-4603-B2FC-F6B726E03966@caen.one>

Layouts, a little bit like this, then ? (Swift for Apple) ?
https://developer.apple.com/documentation/uikit/views_and_controls/collection_views/layouts


From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Aug 15 11:40:39 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2024 17:40:39 +0200
Subject: Android API 34 and Android keystore
In-Reply-To: <002b01daecbc$883c9750$98b5c5f0$@net>
References: <218F032A-9FE0-4381-AFD0-11629A3EEAC8@major-k.de>
 <6BC1D23E-E1A9-466B-9347-ED6B8AEF14EC@elementarysoftware.com>
 <004301daeaa3$25a96c00$70fc4400$@net>
 <1913967be90.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <F933518B-5DC7-4248-8A87-A21E38F653D0@major-k.de>
 <002b01daecbc$883c9750$98b5c5f0$@net>
Message-ID: <751A7CE6-7021-499E-B740-7E6C6D82600B@major-k.de>

Hi all,

> Am 12.08.2024 um 15:35 schrieb Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Klaus,
> 
> GREAT NEWS! I stand corrected also. Please post the contact and procedure.
> This will help all on the list. Thanks for doing the foot work to figure
> this out.
> 
> Ralph DiMola

sorry for the late response...

Contact:
On the Google Play Store HELP pages you will find a button "Contact" at the 
bottom of the page. I just clicked that and asked my question.

Procedere, I don't think I am revelaing a secret when I quote the answer mail here:
--------------------------------------------------------------------
>     • Follow the instructions in the Android Studio Help Center to generate a new key. It must be different from any previous keys, be a 2048-bit RSA key, and have 25-year validity. Alternatively, you can use the following command line to generate a new key:
>         • keytool -genkeypair -alias upload -keyalg RSA -keysize 2048 -validity 9125 -keystore keystore.jks

>     • Export the certificate for that key to PEM format:
>         • keytool -export -rfc -alias upload -file upload_certificate.pem -keystore keystore.jks 

>     • Once you have generated a PEM file please follow the steps below:
>         • Go to Setup > App integrity > App Signing.
>         • Request Upload key reset.
>         • Give a reason why you’re requesting a key reset.
>         • Enter PEM file.
>         • Click Request.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Hope that helps.
Will do this over the weekend...


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Aug 15 13:51:36 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2024 19:51:36 +0200
Subject: Android API 34 and Android keystore
In-Reply-To: <751A7CE6-7021-499E-B740-7E6C6D82600B@major-k.de>
References: <218F032A-9FE0-4381-AFD0-11629A3EEAC8@major-k.de>
 <6BC1D23E-E1A9-466B-9347-ED6B8AEF14EC@elementarysoftware.com>
 <004301daeaa3$25a96c00$70fc4400$@net>
 <1913967be90.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <F933518B-5DC7-4248-8A87-A21E38F653D0@major-k.de>
 <002b01daecbc$883c9750$98b5c5f0$@net>
 <751A7CE6-7021-499E-B740-7E6C6D82600B@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <0EDE5423-38FB-4995-A59F-1E2A7230C42D@major-k.de>

Forgot to mention that one should wait 48 hours after uploading the PEM file,
so the system has time to "get" fully. :-D

> Am 15.08.2024 um 17:40 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
>> Am 12.08.2024 um 15:35 schrieb Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Klaus,
>> 
>> GREAT NEWS! I stand corrected also. Please post the contact and procedure.
>> This will help all on the list. Thanks for doing the foot work to figure
>> this out.
>> 
>> Ralph DiMola
> 
> sorry for the late response...
> 
> Contact:
> On the Google Play Store HELP pages you will find a button "Contact" at the 
> bottom of the page. I just clicked that and asked my question.
> 
> Procedere, I don't think I am revelaing a secret when I quote the answer mail here:
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>    • Follow the instructions in the Android Studio Help Center to generate a new key. It must be different from any previous keys, be a 2048-bit RSA key, and have 25-year validity. Alternatively, you can use the following command line to generate a new key:
>>        • keytool -genkeypair -alias upload -keyalg RSA -keysize 2048 -validity 9125 -keystore keystore.jks
> 
>>    • Export the certificate for that key to PEM format:
>>        • keytool -export -rfc -alias upload -file upload_certificate.pem -keystore keystore.jks
> 
>>    • Once you have generated a PEM file please follow the steps below:
>>        • Go to Setup > App integrity > App Signing.
>>        • Request Upload key reset.
>>        • Give a reason why you’re requesting a key reset.
>>        • Enter PEM file.
>>        • Click Request.
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au  Fri Aug 16 02:34:33 2024
From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2024 06:34:33 +0000
Subject: Polygrid or polylist as datagrid form replacement?
Message-ID: <ME3PR01MB80823F09254D42CDF5123A7FB7812@ME3PR01MB8082.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>

I’ve been using datagrid form objects for a number of years and am investigating the viability of replacing them with polygrids or polylist widgets but on first look it seems that both have fixed/uniform row heights, whereas datagrid form rows can dynamically resize their height according to their content - ie individual rows can have different heights.

Is that right, or am I missing something?

Terry

From benr_mc at cogapp.com  Fri Aug 16 03:32:10 2024
From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2024 08:32:10 +0100
Subject: Issues with (64bit?) Windows MySQL driver
Message-ID: <13f72f4a-7dcc-4dc3-8bb5-e1e1c931ec96@cogapp.com>

I have a tool (a LiveCode standalone) running on Windows, which every night 
drops and recreates a database on a remote MySQL server, (about 350MB, 50 
tables). Running for many years.

About a year ago, we started to see a problem where sometimes the nightly 
build would fail, part-way through the process. The routine involves creating 
and populating tables, then creating indexes. Depending when the problem hits, 
the initial error is either

	Connection was killed
or
	Lost connection to MySQL server during query

All subsequent calls to revdb_execute get the error

	MySQL server has gone away

I tried splitting the build into sections, so that the code opens the 
connection to a database builds some of the tables, then closes the 
connection, and opens a new connection to add more tables. There was no 
evidence that this made the issue occur less frequently; and once it hit, 
subsequent attempts to open a connection would get the error

	Can't connect to MySQL server on '<address>' (0)


When this was happening maybe a couple of times per month (on average) it 
didn't matter too much (the system is designed to be resilient, if the data 
wasn't refreshed one day, it would be the next). I thought it might be network 
glitches.

Recently IT tightened security on the machine where the tool runs; and since 
then we get this problem nine times of out ten. They say the only change made 
was to remove the admin privileges of the user account, and have now reversed 
that change; however, this problem has remained since. Another problem that 
arrived at the same time, reported here as "a windows weirdness", seems (per 
Paul Dupuis and Mark Waddingham) to be related to UNC paths, and possibly to 
security policies.

Does anyone have a suggestion for how conditions could affect this? Is there 
any way to get more detailed information out of the rev database driver about 
what's happening?

TIA,

Ben


From mark at livecode.com  Fri Aug 16 04:14:53 2024
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2024 09:14:53 +0100
Subject: Issues with (64bit?) Windows MySQL driver
In-Reply-To: <13f72f4a-7dcc-4dc3-8bb5-e1e1c931ec96@cogapp.com>
References: <13f72f4a-7dcc-4dc3-8bb5-e1e1c931ec96@cogapp.com>
Message-ID: <9cdd28a034b7a7daff5db4e306abdc97@livecode.com>

On 2024-08-16 08:32, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode wrote:
> I have a tool (a LiveCode standalone) running on Windows, which every 
> night drops and recreates a database on a remote MySQL server, (about 
> 350MB, 50 tables). Running for many years.
> 
> About a year ago, we started to see a problem where sometimes the 
> nightly build would fail, part-way through the process. The routine 
> involves creating and populating tables, then creating indexes. 
> Depending when the problem hits, the initial error is either
> 
> 	Connection was killed
> or
> 	Lost connection to MySQL server during query
> 
> All subsequent calls to revdb_execute get the error
> 
> 	MySQL server has gone away
> 
> I tried splitting the build into sections, so that the code opens the 
> connection to a database builds some of the tables, then closes the 
> connection, and opens a new connection to add more tables. There was no 
> evidence that this made the issue occur less frequently; and once it 
> hit, subsequent attempts to open a connection would get the error
> 
> 	Can't connect to MySQL server on '<address>' (0)
> 
> 
> When this was happening maybe a couple of times per month (on average) 
> it didn't matter too much (the system is designed to be resilient, if 
> the data wasn't refreshed one day, it would be the next). I thought it 
> might be network glitches.
> 
> Recently IT tightened security on the machine where the tool runs; and 
> since then we get this problem nine times of out ten. They say the only 
> change made was to remove the admin privileges of the user account, and 
> have now reversed that change; however, this problem has remained 
> since. Another problem that arrived at the same time, reported here as 
> "a windows weirdness", seems (per Paul Dupuis and Mark Waddingham) to 
> be related to UNC paths, and possibly to security policies.
> 
> Does anyone have a suggestion for how conditions could affect this? Is 
> there any way to get more detailed information out of the rev database 
> driver about what's happening?

The dbmysql is just a thin wrapper around the mysqlclient library which 
is basically just implementing a protocol over a socket.

The fact that you get 'Can't connect to MySQL on '<address>'' after it 
happens sounds very much like there's some sort of blocking going on at 
the system level. (A bit like most servers have 'portsentry' or similar 
on it which blocks requests which look dodgy) - given the 'tigtening of 
security' this is quite possible...

I think there are some low-level network tools on windows you could use 
to look at what's happening with sockets/ports (e.g. 
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/downloads/tcpview).

I was going to suggest tweaking the timeouts/auto-reconnect parameters 
on your revOpenDatabase call - but I'm not sure its a timeout due to the 
'Can't connect' error happening subsequently.

Warmest Regards

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things


From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com  Fri Aug 16 05:19:42 2024
From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2024 11:19:42 +0200
Subject: LC Create Cloud advanced developer questions
Message-ID: <931E4E58-4809-4FA2-BD08-D42006732638@gmail.com>

I have some questions to LC HQ on aspects of LC Create Cloud that I believe have not yet been discussed at all (unless I’ve missed something).

1) If several developers want to cooperate, is it then possible for multiple users to log in to the same project in LC Create Cloud? And if not possible now from the start, is it something that’s on the road map? 

2) Even if I’m a lone developer, I may want to make use of the work of others, like we've done so extensively in LC Classic. How can plugin stacks and helper tools made by others be implemented or accessed in my LC Create Cloud project? If I can’t have more than one stack open at the same time, it seems difficult to use such things.

Related to that, can I have my own "script repository” where I store script-only stacks or something, which all my projects can make calls to? Could I even share that repository so other developers can make calls to it? 

Wouldn’t it be very interesting if many general utility scripts could be made available in a similar way to how e.g. Python works, where you put ”import [library]” at the top of a script, and all the modules/handlers can then be accessed by the script?

All this can of course be done already in the sense that you can fetch any LC stack that’s been made available on a server and ”start using” it. But I think LC Create Cloud has the potential to offer such a feature in a more secure an accessible way - to everyone! Is this something you have considered?

3) Regardless of whether "multiple users per account" functionality will be there or not - will LC support staff be able to more easily provide support in LC Create Cloud by accessing projects (at the user’s request) and trouble-shoot or obtain bug documentation? I imagine it should facilitate things in that respect.

/Andreas

From heather at livecode.com  Fri Aug 16 05:56:54 2024
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2024 10:56:54 +0100
Subject: LC Create Cloud advanced developer questions
In-Reply-To: <931E4E58-4809-4FA2-BD08-D42006732638@gmail.com>
References: <931E4E58-4809-4FA2-BD08-D42006732638@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <06B76FCE-C77D-4412-85EF-7F324CCD5C1B@livecode.com>

Andreas,

These are great questions. I think really the best place to get answers is going to be the new LiveCode Create forum, here: 

https://discourse.livecode.com

Please do go here and ask them, and hopefully we can get a good discussion going!

Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 16 Aug 2024, at 10:19, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I have some questions to LC HQ on aspects of LC Create Cloud that I believe have not yet been discussed at all (unless I’ve missed something).
> 
> 1) If several developers want to cooperate, is it then possible for multiple users to log in to the same project in LC Create Cloud? And if not possible now from the start, is it something that’s on the road map? 
> 
> 2) Even if I’m a lone developer, I may want to make use of the work of others, like we've done so extensively in LC Classic. How can plugin stacks and helper tools made by others be implemented or accessed in my LC Create Cloud project? If I can’t have more than one stack open at the same time, it seems difficult to use such things.
> 
> Related to that, can I have my own "script repository” where I store script-only stacks or something, which all my projects can make calls to? Could I even share that repository so other developers can make calls to it? 
> 
> Wouldn’t it be very interesting if many general utility scripts could be made available in a similar way to how e.g. Python works, where you put ”import [library]” at the top of a script, and all the modules/handlers can then be accessed by the script?
> 
> All this can of course be done already in the sense that you can fetch any LC stack that’s been made available on a server and ”start using” it. But I think LC Create Cloud has the potential to offer such a feature in a more secure an accessible way - to everyone! Is this something you have considered?
> 
> 3) Regardless of whether "multiple users per account" functionality will be there or not - will LC support staff be able to more easily provide support in LC Create Cloud by accessing projects (at the user’s request) and trouble-shoot or obtain bug documentation? I imagine it should facilitate things in that respect.
> 
> /Andreas
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Fri Aug 16 06:02:57 2024
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2024 11:02:57 +0100
Subject: Polygrid or polylist as datagrid form replacement?
In-Reply-To: <ME3PR01MB80823F09254D42CDF5123A7FB7812@ME3PR01MB8082.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
References: <ME3PR01MB80823F09254D42CDF5123A7FB7812@ME3PR01MB8082.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <D76E1FF9-49ED-4FFF-9C55-C00A52B941C0@gmail.com>

Hi Terry, I can’t answer your question but I am curious if you have any code you use to dynamically resize the row height in a datagrid. I am very interested in doing this.

Thanks
Mark

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 16, 2024, at 7:35 AM, Terry Judd via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I’ve been using datagrid form objects for a number of years and am investigating the viability of replacing them with polygrids or polylist widgets but on first look it seems that both have fixed/uniform row heights, whereas datagrid form rows can dynamically resize their height according to their content - ie individual rows can have different heights.
> 
> Is that right, or am I missing something?
> 
> Terry
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From kevin at livecode.com  Fri Aug 16 07:23:13 2024
From: kevin at livecode.com (Kevin Miller)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2024 12:23:13 +0100
Subject: LC Create Cloud advanced developer questions
In-Reply-To: <931E4E58-4809-4FA2-BD08-D42006732638@gmail.com>
References: <931E4E58-4809-4FA2-BD08-D42006732638@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5746ED6C-3959-4161-8DFE-11D602A9493A@livecode.com>

Thanks for this. We had a quick chat internally and actually we're happy for Create questions to be posted either here or on the forum. However please post bug reports only on the forums as that is where the developers hang out.

1. At present you can "almost" do this by sharing log in details. Doing this better with multiple log-ins per account has been very much part of the road map from the start. We're really excited about this aspect of things actually, we can see a whole class of apps where people choose to distribute them inside the IDE instead of deploying. As we start to implement this properly we may begin by just being as granular as locking one layout at a time. As things evolve we're looking at developing this to the point where you can do better real time sharing, versioning, code reviews etc.

2. We don't yet have a plugins system in Cloud, however it will be coming soon. There is a real opportunity to make it super easy to share and import components. A marketplace is one way to do this. Allowing a searchable repository of shared script steps and templates (within those IDE features) is another. We're also considering things like whether or not we want to allow attribution (small company logo and a link) if you share a script step. So if you're a consulting service you would get your website in front of people while simultaneously looking useful & knowledgeable to prospects, right from within the IDE.

3. This is essentially similar to the multi-user question. If you grant access to a support account to come in we would be able to do that, obviously if you don't do so then we couldn't.

Kind regards, 

Kevin 

Kevin Miller ~ kevin at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ 
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things 




On 16/08/2024, 10:19, "use-livecode on behalf of Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode" <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> on behalf of use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:


I have some questions to LC HQ on aspects of LC Create Cloud that I believe have not yet been discussed at all (unless I’ve missed something).


1) If several developers want to cooperate, is it then possible for multiple users to log in to the same project in LC Create Cloud? And if not possible now from the start, is it something that’s on the road map? 


2) Even if I’m a lone developer, I may want to make use of the work of others, like we've done so extensively in LC Classic. How can plugin stacks and helper tools made by others be implemented or accessed in my LC Create Cloud project? If I can’t have more than one stack open at the same time, it seems difficult to use such things.


Related to that, can I have my own "script repository” where I store script-only stacks or something, which all my projects can make calls to? Could I even share that repository so other developers can make calls to it? 


Wouldn’t it be very interesting if many general utility scripts could be made available in a similar way to how e.g. Python works, where you put ”import [library]” at the top of a script, and all the modules/handlers can then be accessed by the script?


All this can of course be done already in the sense that you can fetch any LC stack that’s been made available on a server and ”start using” it. But I think LC Create Cloud has the potential to offer such a feature in a more secure an accessible way - to everyone! Is this something you have considered?


3) Regardless of whether "multiple users per account" functionality will be there or not - will LC support staff be able to more easily provide support in LC Create Cloud by accessing projects (at the user’s request) and trouble-shoot or obtain bug documentation? I imagine it should facilitate things in that respect.


/Andreas
_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode <http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode>






From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Aug 16 11:17:06 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2024 15:17:06 +0000
Subject: Issues with (64bit?) Windows MySQL driver
In-Reply-To: <9cdd28a034b7a7daff5db4e306abdc97@livecode.com>
References: <13f72f4a-7dcc-4dc3-8bb5-e1e1c931ec96@cogapp.com>
 <9cdd28a034b7a7daff5db4e306abdc97@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <12E3765E-7AF3-4415-ACFD-5AE8E253CDF9@iotecdigital.com>

I had an issue with my mySQL server some time ago that revolved around making multiple connections in a short period of time. I would hit the connection limit of the SQL server and it would stop accepting connections. My issue was that I didn’t realize at the time that I needed to disconnect after every session, because the SQL server will keep a connection alive for a period of time specified in the server settings. If you are already connected and you create a new connection it will create a new thread.

If you have MySQLWorkbench (or some other server manager) you should be able to see the current connections. The MySQLWorkbench will have it’s own connections but if you see a lot of other connections that you can’t account for, then you need to ensure that you are disconnecting after every session.

Bob S


On Aug 16, 2024, at 1:14 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

On 2024-08-16 08:32, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode wrote:
I have a tool (a LiveCode standalone) running on Windows, which every night drops and recreates a database on a remote MySQL server, (about 350MB, 50 tables). Running for many years.
About a year ago, we started to see a problem where sometimes the nightly build would fail, part-way through the process. The routine involves creating and populating tables, then creating indexes. Depending when the problem hits, the initial error is either
Connection was killed
or
Lost connection to MySQL server during query
All subsequent calls to revdb_execute get the error
MySQL server has gone away
I tried splitting the build into sections, so that the code opens the connection to a database builds some of the tables, then closes the connection, and opens a new connection to add more tables. There was no evidence that this made the issue occur less frequently; and once it hit, subsequent attempts to open a connection would get the error
Can't connect to MySQL server on '<address>' (0)
When this was happening maybe a couple of times per month (on average) it didn't matter too much (the system is designed to be resilient, if the data wasn't refreshed one day, it would be the next). I thought it might be network glitches.
Recently IT tightened security on the machine where the tool runs; and since then we get this problem nine times of out ten. They say the only change made was to remove the admin privileges of the user account, and have now reversed that change; however, this problem has remained since. Another problem that arrived at the same time, reported here as "a windows weirdness", seems (per Paul Dupuis and Mark Waddingham) to be related to UNC paths, and possibly to security policies.
Does anyone have a suggestion for how conditions could affect this? Is there any way to get more detailed information out of the rev database driver about what's happening?

The dbmysql is just a thin wrapper around the mysqlclient library which is basically just implementing a protocol over a socket.

The fact that you get 'Can't connect to MySQL on '<address>'' after it happens sounds very much like there's some sort of blocking going on at the system level. (A bit like most servers have 'portsentry' or similar on it which blocks requests which look dodgy) - given the 'tigtening of security' this is quite possible...

I think there are some low-level network tools on windows you could use to look at what's happening with sockets/ports (e.g. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/downloads/tcpview).

I was going to suggest tweaking the timeouts/auto-reconnect parameters on your revOpenDatabase call - but I'm not sure its a timeout due to the 'Can't connect' error happening subsequently.

Warmest Regards

Mark.

--
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com<mailto:mark at livecode.com> ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things

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Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
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From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Aug 16 11:20:12 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2024 15:20:12 +0000
Subject: Polygrid or polylist as datagrid form replacement?
In-Reply-To: <ME3PR01MB80823F09254D42CDF5123A7FB7812@ME3PR01MB8082.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
References: <ME3PR01MB80823F09254D42CDF5123A7FB7812@ME3PR01MB8082.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <E4BB477D-276D-4276-8ED9-83C5AA21CF16@iotecdigital.com>

There are a great many things you can do with a datagrid that you cannot do with a polygrid. From what I have been able to gather, the main advantage to using a polygrid is that they perform better than a datagrid. But their list of properties that you can get and set are what I would call minimal compared to a datagrid. Also, I do not think that polygrids can be used like a form style datagrid. 

Bob S


> On Aug 15, 2024, at 11:34 PM, Terry Judd via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I’ve been using datagrid form objects for a number of years and am investigating the viability of replacing them with polygrids or polylist widgets but on first look it seems that both have fixed/uniform row heights, whereas datagrid form rows can dynamically resize their height according to their content - ie individual rows can have different heights.
> 
> Is that right, or am I missing something?
> 
> Terry
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Aug 16 11:21:42 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2024 15:21:42 +0000
Subject: Polygrid or polylist as datagrid form replacement?
In-Reply-To: <D76E1FF9-49ED-4FFF-9C55-C00A52B941C0@gmail.com>
References: <ME3PR01MB80823F09254D42CDF5123A7FB7812@ME3PR01MB8082.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
 <D76E1FF9-49ED-4FFF-9C55-C00A52B941C0@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A3CF9CD6-817E-440E-BBA2-636AD3791E9A@iotecdigital.com>

I believe he is talking about form style datagrids. Form style has row templates that can be coded dynamically. To my knowledge, table style only have column templates. 

Bob S


> On Aug 16, 2024, at 3:02 AM, Mark Smith via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Terry, I can’t answer your question but I am curious if you have any code you use to dynamically resize the row height in a datagrid. I am very interested in doing this.
> 
> Thanks
> Mark
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Aug 16, 2024, at 7:35 AM, Terry Judd via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I’ve been using datagrid form objects for a number of years and am investigating the viability of replacing them with polygrids or polylist widgets but on first look it seems that both have fixed/uniform row heights, whereas datagrid form rows can dynamically resize their height according to their content - ie individual rows can have different heights.
>> 
>> Is that right, or am I missing something?
>> 
>> Terry
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com  Fri Aug 16 11:50:02 2024
From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2024 17:50:02 +0200
Subject: Polygrid or polylist as datagrid form replacement?
In-Reply-To: <D76E1FF9-49ED-4FFF-9C55-C00A52B941C0@gmail.com>
References: <ME3PR01MB80823F09254D42CDF5123A7FB7812@ME3PR01MB8082.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
 <D76E1FF9-49ED-4FFF-9C55-C00A52B941C0@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0149E401-1C06-43E5-BE42-75D2A6FF6DE5@gmail.com>

So, Terry is correct: Polygrid and Polylist currently have fixed/uniform row heights. I hope that might be enhanced one day. So if variable row height is a requirement, you’ll have to stick with the Datagrid for now.

This was also discussed in the Forum last year, including hints on how to achieve variable row heights in a Datagrid: 
https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=37819&p=222950&hilit=datagrid#p222950

/Andreas

> 16 aug. 2024 kl. 12:02 skrev Mark Smith via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi Terry, I can’t answer your question but I am curious if you have any code you use to dynamically resize the row height in a datagrid. I am very interested in doing this.
> 
> Thanks
> Mark
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Aug 16, 2024, at 7:35 AM, Terry Judd via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I’ve been using datagrid form objects for a number of years and am investigating the viability of replacing them with polygrids or polylist widgets but on first look it seems that both have fixed/uniform row heights, whereas datagrid form rows can dynamically resize their height according to their content - ie individual rows can have different heights.
>> 
>> Is that right, or am I missing something?
>> 
>> Terry
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au  Fri Aug 16 16:44:36 2024
From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2024 20:44:36 +0000
Subject: Polygrid or polylist as datagrid form replacement?
In-Reply-To: <0149E401-1C06-43E5-BE42-75D2A6FF6DE5@gmail.com>
References: <ME3PR01MB80823F09254D42CDF5123A7FB7812@ME3PR01MB8082.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
 <D76E1FF9-49ED-4FFF-9C55-C00A52B941C0@gmail.com>
 <0149E401-1C06-43E5-BE42-75D2A6FF6DE5@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ME3PR01MB808208C8F471FCE9469049D8B7812@ME3PR01MB8082.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>

Thanks Andreas – that lesson explains how it works for Mark much more clearly than I could in the space of an email.

Form datagrids are great but they can be a bit slow to render when they contain a lot of stuff. I use them to create fairly complex asssessment feedback reports (PDFs) to students and I was looking for possible ways to speed up the generation process. I guess I’ll just stick with what works.

Regards – Terry

So, Terry is correct: Polygrid and Polylist currently have fixed/uniform row heights. I hope that might be enhanced one day. So if variable row height is a requirement, you’ll have to stick with the Datagrid for now.

This was also discussed in the Forum last year, including hints on how to achieve variable row heights in a Datagrid:
https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=37819&p=222950&hilit=datagrid#p222950

/Andreas

> 16 aug. 2024 kl. 12:02 skrev Mark Smith via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>
> Hi Terry, I can’t answer your question but I am curious if you have any code you use to dynamically resize the row height in a datagrid. I am very interested in doing this.
>
> Thanks
> Mark
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Aug 16, 2024, at 7:35 AM, Terry Judd via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> I’ve been using datagrid form objects for a number of years and am investigating the viability of replacing them with polygrids or polylist widgets but on first look it seems that both have fixed/uniform row heights, whereas datagrid form rows can dynamically resize their height according to their content - ie individual rows can have different heights.
>>
>> Is that right, or am I missing something?
>>
>> Terry
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

_______________________________________________
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use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com  Sat Aug 17 10:43:01 2024
From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal)
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2024 16:43:01 +0200
Subject: LC Create Cloud advanced developer questions
In-Reply-To: <5746ED6C-3959-4161-8DFE-11D602A9493A@livecode.com>
References: <931E4E58-4809-4FA2-BD08-D42006732638@gmail.com>
 <5746ED6C-3959-4161-8DFE-11D602A9493A@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <1588CFF1-6529-4F94-AAEF-F7815567D029@gmail.com>

Thanks Kevin, that all sounds very good and promising. I support the attribution idea.

(I posted the questions in the LCC forum as well, as per Heather's suggestion, and Steven added your reply there. So I’m happy to continue any discussion over there.)

/Andreas 

> 16 aug. 2024 kl. 13:23 skrev Kevin Miller via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Thanks for this. We had a quick chat internally and actually we're happy for Create questions to be posted either here or on the forum. However please post bug reports only on the forums as that is where the developers hang out.
> 
> 1. At present you can "almost" do this by sharing log in details. Doing this better with multiple log-ins per account has been very much part of the road map from the start. We're really excited about this aspect of things actually, we can see a whole class of apps where people choose to distribute them inside the IDE instead of deploying. As we start to implement this properly we may begin by just being as granular as locking one layout at a time. As things evolve we're looking at developing this to the point where you can do better real time sharing, versioning, code reviews etc.
> 
> 2. We don't yet have a plugins system in Cloud, however it will be coming soon. There is a real opportunity to make it super easy to share and import components. A marketplace is one way to do this. Allowing a searchable repository of shared script steps and templates (within those IDE features) is another. We're also considering things like whether or not we want to allow attribution (small company logo and a link) if you share a script step. So if you're a consulting service you would get your website in front of people while simultaneously looking useful & knowledgeable to prospects, right from within the IDE.
> 
> 3. This is essentially similar to the multi-user question. If you grant access to a support account to come in we would be able to do that, obviously if you don't do so then we couldn't.
> 
> Kind regards, 
> 
> Kevin 
> 
> Kevin Miller ~ kevin at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ 
> LiveCode: Build Amazing Things 
> 
> 
> 
> On 16/08/2024, 10:19, "use-livecode on behalf of Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode" <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> on behalf of use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:
> 
> 
> I have some questions to LC HQ on aspects of LC Create Cloud that I believe have not yet been discussed at all (unless I’ve missed something).
> 
> 
> 1) If several developers want to cooperate, is it then possible for multiple users to log in to the same project in LC Create Cloud? And if not possible now from the start, is it something that’s on the road map? 
> 
> 
> 2) Even if I’m a lone developer, I may want to make use of the work of others, like we've done so extensively in LC Classic. How can plugin stacks and helper tools made by others be implemented or accessed in my LC Create Cloud project? If I can’t have more than one stack open at the same time, it seems difficult to use such things.
> 
> 
> Related to that, can I have my own "script repository” where I store script-only stacks or something, which all my projects can make calls to? Could I even share that repository so other developers can make calls to it? 
> 
> 
> Wouldn’t it be very interesting if many general utility scripts could be made available in a similar way to how e.g. Python works, where you put ”import [library]” at the top of a script, and all the modules/handlers can then be accessed by the script?
> 
> 
> All this can of course be done already in the sense that you can fetch any LC stack that’s been made available on a server and ”start using” it. But I think LC Create Cloud has the potential to offer such a feature in a more secure an accessible way - to everyone! Is this something you have considered?
> 
> 
> 3) Regardless of whether "multiple users per account" functionality will be there or not - will LC support staff be able to more easily provide support in LC Create Cloud by accessing projects (at the user’s request) and trouble-shoot or obtain bug documentation? I imagine it should facilitate things in that respect.
> 
> 
> /Andreas


From cszasz at mac.com  Sat Aug 17 12:24:41 2024
From: cszasz at mac.com (Charles Szasz)
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2024 10:24:41 -0600
Subject: Extracting test scores from a PDF
Message-ID: <78862B56-CBD8-4BD6-9164-C9209B7EF661@mac.com>

I came a web app that can extract test scores from a PDF and insert them into an app.  Can LC do the same thing?  


Sent from my iPad

From paul at researchware.com  Sat Aug 17 14:16:40 2024
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2024 14:16:40 -0400
Subject: Extracting test scores from a PDF
In-Reply-To: <78862B56-CBD8-4BD6-9164-C9209B7EF661@mac.com>
References: <78862B56-CBD8-4BD6-9164-C9209B7EF661@mac.com>
Message-ID: <4580676d-125a-4eb8-be91-67fdd79db6c6@researchware.com>

On 8/17/2024 12:24 PM, Charles Szasz via use-livecode wrote:
> I came a web app that can extract test scores from a PDF and insert them into an app.  Can LC do the same thing?
>

I assume you mean can a programmer write an app in Livecode to extract 
test scores from a PDF and do something with them.

If the PDF has the test scores as text in the PDF (vs just a scanned 
image), then, yes, you can make a Livecode app that uses the PDF widget 
to open the PDF and retrieve the text from it and then parse that text 
for the test scores. If there is a routine pattern to the how the test 
scores appear, it will be easier to parse the text.



From curry at pair.com  Sat Aug 17 16:11:55 2024
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2024 16:11:55 -0400
Subject: A friendly reminder to read the new EULA - common privacy/security
 expectations
Message-ID: <47429f74-733a-45f1-a369-9cb51f12a3af@pair.com>

Sorry I haven't posted sooner - enjoyed the comments.
(Thanks to 2 friends who sent congrats that I'm typing more again!)

As expected, it's good to see LC adding features that have become
common modern development expectations in today's world.

Meanwhile, hopefully the EULA will also be modernized, to fit
common privacy/security expectations in today's world!

So, a friendly reminder - read the new EULA beforehand.
(Any purchase of LC Create applies these terms to LC Classic too.)

Not a problem for some, depending on your own situation; I'm glad!

But 3rd party consultants know common mainstream expectations -
increasingly conscious about privacy, higher security, etc.
I've heard similar concerns from other LC consultants.

Folks are wary of things like tracking, data sharing, audits!
Many new clients and referrals won't trust a EULA full of these.
Especially in IT and government, but among consumer/biz too.

Hopefully we'll see samples for the opt-outs, added options -
and improved EULA text for mainstream LC adoption.
(A simple process that does not offset productivity.)

Anyway, a great weekend to all! Keep safe and civil.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development -
"RESURRECT old/broken LC projects! The future awaits..."
https://livecodeconsulting.com/


From curry at pair.com  Sat Aug 17 17:10:27 2024
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2024 17:10:27 -0400
Subject: Livecode Future - and Microsoft past
In-Reply-To: <E7BAECD4-7C09-4B91-8E9A-B5937D23F780@gmail.com>
References: <E7BAECD4-7C09-4B91-8E9A-B5937D23F780@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3e8dc864-046b-4cfe-9b0d-d212727137f8@pair.com>

doc hawk:

 > Somewhere in my files I have a (typed!) letter from Microsoft
 > from 1989 or 1990 responding to my suggestion as a software
 > developer suggesting that BASIC be attached to MS Word.

 > The gist was that it was an intriguing idea,
 > but they had no plans for such a thing.

I had to follow up on this; just couldn't do it sooner -

That's a wow moment, pretty epic and fun! Thanks for sharing that.
The flurry BEHIND that same typewriter would be a sight to behold. :)

(Looks like WordBasic and macro language history before VBA
varied a lot between DOS, Windows and Mac versions.)

I enjoyed all the comments and seeing many a great person pop up -
Sorry I couldn't respond to more, but many good ones lately.

I hope you are ALL doing well!

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
"PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
https://livecodeconsulting.com/



From heather at livecode.com  Wed Aug 21 11:36:57 2024
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2024 16:36:57 +0100
Subject: LiveCode Create 1.0 dp-2 released with engine level JSON
Message-ID: <7A2EFC3A-2103-454E-AD64-372E089CA1B4@livecode.com>

Hi Folks,

We're pleased to announce a new release of LiveCode Create, dp-2. In this release the major feature is new, improved, engine level JSON, available to Create Cloud, Create Native and the embedded Create Classic option within Create Native. To learn more about the JSON improvements, go here:

https://future.livecode.com/dp2-json/

On the engine side, this release brings:

    • saving a standalone for web now works when using a Universal license in Create's Classic mode
    • modifying strings in array elements is now substantially faster
    • there is a new is a sequence operator which returns true for arrays which have keys 1, ..., N
    • there is a new is a numeric sequence operator which returns true for arrays which have keys -M, ..., N
    • the combine command now sorts arrays which return true for is a numeric sequence in (ascending) numeric order
    • there are a new family of as <type> operators which convert a value to a given type, and throw an error if they cannot be, e.g. tVar as a number converts 100
    • there are new fast and accurate json encoding and decoding functions jsonEncode and jsonDecode
    • to support roundtripping values through json using the new functions, it is now possible to mark an array as preferring to be a dictionary (maps to JSON object) or preferring to be a sequence (maps to JSON array) using as a dictionary or as a sequence operators
    • the existing JSON Library functions JsonImport and JsonExport have been reimplemented using the builtin engine support and as such are substantially faster

On the Create IDE side, this is just a short list of some of the bugs we have addressed:

    • Logging out on web no longer causes a hang
    • Empty layouts no longer generated after exiting without saving
    • Non user placed objects no longer appear in the project browser
    • The color picker editor no longer accepts incorrectly formatted colors
    • Icons on the left bar should now accurately reflect the opened state of the related palette
    • Pressing enter or return key in a dialog field no longer causes a hang

Many more issues have been sorted, and we're eagerly looking forward to to DP-3 which will squish many more.

For purchasers, this release is now available from your LiveCode account, under the "LiveCode Create" tab. It has been pushed to the Cloud so the web version is already running dp-2. Not got it yet? Go here:

https://future.livecode.com/buy

Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com





From cszasz at mac.com  Wed Aug 21 17:37:54 2024
From: cszasz at mac.com (Charles Szasz)
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2024 15:37:54 -0600
Subject: use-livecode Digest, Vol 251, Issue 19
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1724256002.383443.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.1.1724256002.383443.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <87DAC867-176E-4A4F-A3B4-3245DC176572@mac.com>

Heather,

Please send a new password so I can access LC Create.  I know you are really busy. So, when you have time please me a new password.  

Also, I looked forward to receiving estimates of LC program work. 

Thanks!

Sent from my iPad

> On Aug 21, 2024, at 10:01 AM, use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:
> 
> Send use-livecode mailing list submissions to
>    use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>    http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>    use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>    use-livecode-owner at lists.runrev.com
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of use-livecode digest..."
> 
> 
> you can find the archives for this list at:
> 
> http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/
> 
> and search them using this link:
> 
> https://www.mail-archive.com/use-livecode at lists.runrev.com/
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. LiveCode Create 1.0 dp-2 released with engine level JSON
>      (Heather Laine)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2024 16:36:57 +0100
> From: Heather Laine <heather at livecode.com>
> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: LiveCode Create 1.0 dp-2 released with engine level JSON
> Message-ID: <7A2EFC3A-2103-454E-AD64-372E089CA1B4 at livecode.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=utf-8
> 
> Hi Folks,
> 
> We're pleased to announce a new release of LiveCode Create, dp-2. In this release the major feature is new, improved, engine level JSON, available to Create Cloud, Create Native and the embedded Create Classic option within Create Native. To learn more about the JSON improvements, go here:
> 
> https://future.livecode.com/dp2-json/
> 
> On the engine side, this release brings:
> 
>    ? saving a standalone for web now works when using a Universal license in Create's Classic mode
>    ? modifying strings in array elements is now substantially faster
>    ? there is a new is a sequence operator which returns true for arrays which have keys 1, ..., N
>    ? there is a new is a numeric sequence operator which returns true for arrays which have keys -M, ..., N
>    ? the combine command now sorts arrays which return true for is a numeric sequence in (ascending) numeric order
>    ? there are a new family of as <type> operators which convert a value to a given type, and throw an error if they cannot be, e.g. tVar as a number converts 100
>    ? there are new fast and accurate json encoding and decoding functions jsonEncode and jsonDecode
>    ? to support roundtripping values through json using the new functions, it is now possible to mark an array as preferring to be a dictionary (maps to JSON object) or preferring to be a sequence (maps to JSON array) using as a dictionary or as a sequence operators
>    ? the existing JSON Library functions JsonImport and JsonExport have been reimplemented using the builtin engine support and as such are substantially faster
> 
> On the Create IDE side, this is just a short list of some of the bugs we have addressed:
> 
>    ? Logging out on web no longer causes a hang
>    ? Empty layouts no longer generated after exiting without saving
>    ? Non user placed objects no longer appear in the project browser
>    ? The color picker editor no longer accepts incorrectly formatted colors
>    ? Icons on the left bar should now accurately reflect the opened state of the related palette
>    ? Pressing enter or return key in a dialog field no longer causes a hang
> 
> Many more issues have been sorted, and we're eagerly looking forward to to DP-3 which will squish many more.
> 
> For purchasers, this release is now available from your LiveCode account, under the "LiveCode Create" tab. It has been pushed to the Cloud so the web version is already running dp-2. Not got it yet? Go here:
> 
> https://future.livecode.com/buy
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Subject: Digest Footer
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> End of use-livecode Digest, Vol 251, Issue 19
> *********************************************


From curry at pair.com  Thu Aug 22 01:13:16 2024
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2024 01:13:16 -0400
Subject: Productivity is the key - not paperwork.
Message-ID: <ad044a42-4bd4-4b3f-9a95-8c53ba6516e1@pair.com>

I'm not energetic enough to be comfortable yet with Create's EULA.

Time and energy are precious for everyone! Thus, efficiency -
especially those with handicaps, chronic fatigue, or even seniority. :)

For me, saving energy is crucial. So I've specialized; 100% LC.
When someone asks me about any project, my answer has been: LiveCode!

Keep it simple. My Dad's air force motto. I like it that way.

LC Create would be a natural next step in energy-saving.
(And I'm nostalgic for code actions; used VPL often, 20 years ago!)

This would be a joyful moment for me -

But Create's productivity is OFFSET by unusual reporting demands,
along with privacy/security concerns. All time-consuming to resolve:

- 'if I didn't have that LiveCode component how much income would I 
lose? That's the percentage you need to pay us on. We will ask to see 
how you worked out this percentage.'

- 'can I turn off tracking for my apps? - Yes, you can do this, on an 
app by app basis, after discussing and agreeing a custom license 
agreement with us. Note that this may mean we ask you for detailed 
tracking on your app sales, since we won't be able to track it ourselves.'

And so on - looks bureaucratic, complex, high-energy, work-intensive.
That is ongoing (e)paperwork, a drain to offset productivity.

For me, that much added old-style paperwork is just not feasible,
along with the privacy/security concerns in some areas -

It means being forced to consider 'LC or not' per project.
Some very ideal, some not at all - mostly due to fine print.

This feels like a step backward; I prefer 100% LC.
But today many low-code platforms, with much less paperwork!

I hope the new Create EULA will soon be modernized,
to fit today's world, and do justice to the new features.

Thought it might be worth another try, planting an idea-seed. :)

Back to work - Thank you.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development -
"RESURRECT old/broken LC projects! The future awaits..."
https://livecodeconsulting.com/


From klaus at major-k.de  Fri Aug 23 05:55:13 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2024 11:55:13 +0200
Subject: Error creating Android Standalone
Message-ID: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>

Hi friends,

I get an error when creating an Android runtime:
----------------------------------------------
There was an error while saving the standalone application could not encode class bundle - error:
Error: AJNI error has occurred, please check your installation and try again Exception in thread "main" java.lang. UnsupportedClassVersionError:
com/android/tools/r8/D8 has been compiled by a more recent version of the Java Runtime (class file version 55.0), this version of the Java Runtime only recognizes class file versions up to 52.0
at java.lang.ClassLoader.defineClass 1(Native Method)
at java.lang.ClassLoader.defineClass(ClassLoader.java:756)
at java.security.SecureClassLoader.defineClass(SecureClassLoader.java:142)
at java.net.URLClassLoader.defineClass(URLClassLoader.java:473)
at java.net.URLClassLoader.access$100(URLClassLoader.java:74)
at java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run(URLClassLoader.java:369)
at java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run(URLClassLoader.java:363)
at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method) at java.net.URLClassLoader.findClass(URLClassLoader.java:362)
at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:418)
at sun.misc.LauncherSAppClassLoader.loadClass(Launcher.java:355)
at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:351)
at sun.launcher.LauncherHelper.checkAndLoadMain(LauncherHelper.java:601)
-------------------------------------------------

MacMini M2, macOS 14.6.1
LC 10 rc1
Android Studio Iguana | 2023.2.1 Patch 1
Build #AI-232.10300.40.2321.11567975, built on March 13, 2024
Runtime version: 17.0.9+0-17.0.9b1087.7-11185874 aarch64
VM: OpenJDK 64-Bit Server VM by JetBrains s.r.o.
macOS 14.6.1
GC: G1 Young Generation, G1 Old Generation
Memory: 2048M
Cores: 8
Metal Rendering is ON
Registry:
    ide.experimental.ui=true
-------------------------------------------------

What can I do? Any hints very welcome!


Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From livfoss at mac.com  Fri Aug 23 07:10:39 2024
From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2024 12:10:39 +0100
Subject: Bowing Out
Message-ID: <F4D01149-7B73-471E-948C-9F6DBE19720B@mac.com>

Just a quick note to say that after many years of using LiveCode (including its predecessors) and doing some modest development - some of which was successfully sold to real users - I’ve decided that for me time’s up. This is because of seniority (as someone recently put it - I’m old!) and the feeling that at my time of life I can’t productively invest time or money in learning about Create and the whole direction of the LC technology. I’ve had fun over the years, and have benefitted hugely from the generosity and expertise of those on this list and of course from the direct support of the whole Kevin circus. I’ll miss it all.

For what it's worth, I have seen the Create demo and tried to understand the underlying model of app that is being aimed at. If I were still trying to contribute, I would be asking about how Create can help with apps that depend on user interaction with animations, and apps that are driven by external triggers like changing GPS coordinates, and most of all, about how far Create will assist with deployment, particularly on iOS - an issue that can dwarf the actual development effort of an app in terms of time and resources. If Create can take the user all the way from internal beta test to publication, that would be an achievement worth celebrating.

Anyway, it’s a great product that deserves success - so good luck to all involved.

I’ll lurk for a little longer, but really its goodbye and thanks for all the fish.

Graham

From jbv at souslelogo.com  Fri Aug 23 07:27:54 2024
From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2024 07:27:54 -0400
Subject: How to check if a group contains a specific control ?
Message-ID: <963358ee2ad8f11dfe3b95f474d3891c@souslelogo.com>

Hi list,

Is there a quick way to check if a group contains a specific control,
something like :
if there is a fld "xyz" in grp "abc" of this cd

I tried many things but it always generates an error.
So far, the only way I can think of is to maintain a custom prop
for each group, featuring a string that is the list of all controls
names of the group.

Thank you in advance.
jbv


From klaus at major-k.de  Fri Aug 23 07:45:56 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2024 13:45:56 +0200
Subject: How to check if a group contains a specific control ?
In-Reply-To: <963358ee2ad8f11dfe3b95f474d3891c@souslelogo.com>
References: <963358ee2ad8f11dfe3b95f474d3891c@souslelogo.com>
Message-ID: <00DD9EFE-2671-4716-AAC3-92EEB4D89709@major-k.de>

Hi jbv,

> Am 23.08.2024 um 13:27 schrieb jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi list,
> 
> Is there a quick way to check if a group contains a specific control,
> something like :
> if there is a fld "xyz" in grp "abc" of this cd
> I tried many things but it always generates an error.
> So far, the only way I can think of is to maintain a custom prop
> for each group, featuring a string that is the list of all controls
> names of the group.

if you don't have any other controls with the same name, 
you could check: 
-> lineoffset("xyz",the childcontrolnames of grp "abc")

> Thank you in advance.
> jbv

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From ilola.antti at gmail.com  Fri Aug 23 07:46:38 2024
From: ilola.antti at gmail.com (Antti Ilola)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2024 14:46:38 +0300
Subject: Bowing Out
In-Reply-To: <F4D01149-7B73-471E-948C-9F6DBE19720B@mac.com>
References: <F4D01149-7B73-471E-948C-9F6DBE19720B@mac.com>
Message-ID: <CAEKyzxNoizffEZ5A7Fb6xk+ya4ZPqn0Z5eqVO3gSvNTQ-+jukg@mail.gmail.com>

+1

pe 23.8.2024 klo 14.12 Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> kirjoitti:

> Just a quick note to say that after many years of using LiveCode
> (including its predecessors) and doing some modest development - some of
> which was successfully sold to real users - I’ve decided that for me time’s
> up. This is because of seniority (as someone recently put it - I’m old!)
> and the feeling that at my time of life I can’t productively invest time or
> money in learning about Create and the whole direction of the LC
> technology. I’ve had fun over the years, and have benefitted hugely from
> the generosity and expertise of those on this list and of course from the
> direct support of the whole Kevin circus. I’ll miss it all.
>
> For what it's worth, I have seen the Create demo and tried to understand
> the underlying model of app that is being aimed at. If I were still trying
> to contribute, I would be asking about how Create can help with apps that
> depend on user interaction with animations, and apps that are driven by
> external triggers like changing GPS coordinates, and most of all, about how
> far Create will assist with deployment, particularly on iOS - an issue that
> can dwarf the actual development effort of an app in terms of time and
> resources. If Create can take the user all the way from internal beta test
> to publication, that would be an achievement worth celebrating.
>
> Anyway, it’s a great product that deserves success - so good luck to all
> involved.
>
> I’ll lurk for a little longer, but really its goodbye and thanks for all
> the fish.
>
> Graham
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From paul at researchware.com  Fri Aug 23 08:04:43 2024
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2024 08:04:43 -0400
Subject: How to check if a group contains a specific control ?
In-Reply-To: <00DD9EFE-2671-4716-AAC3-92EEB4D89709@major-k.de>
References: <963358ee2ad8f11dfe3b95f474d3891c@souslelogo.com>
 <00DD9EFE-2671-4716-AAC3-92EEB4D89709@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <c386b4f7-0f8e-44c9-b2fb-3acae4788f16@researchware.com>

On 8/23/2024 7:45 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi jbv,
>
>> Am 23.08.2024 um 13:27 schrieb jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>
>> Hi list,
>>
>> Is there a quick way to check if a group contains a specific control,
>> something like :
>> if there is a fld "xyz" in grp "abc" of this cd
>> I tried many things but it always generates an error.
>> So far, the only way I can think of is to maintain a custom prop
>> for each group, featuring a string that is the list of all controls
>> names of the group.
> if you don't have any other controls with the same name,
> you could check:
> -> lineoffset("xyz",the childcontrolnames of grp "abc")
>

or, if you prefer:

if "xyz" is among the lines of the childcontrolnames of group "abc" then

NOTE: As mentioned, "xyz" would need to be a unique name for control in 
the group. If you have a field "xyz" and a button "xyz" (or 2 buttons or 
2 or more fields with the same name, etc.) this is not accurate.



From brian at milby7.com  Fri Aug 23 08:48:15 2024
From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2024 08:48:15 -0400
Subject: How to check if a group contains a specific control ?
In-Reply-To: <c386b4f7-0f8e-44c9-b2fb-3acae4788f16@researchware.com>
References: <c386b4f7-0f8e-44c9-b2fb-3acae4788f16@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <6364A226-62B7-44D4-BB60-030BC87A7DE6@milby7.com>

Another alternative.

If the short id of fld "xyz" is among the lines of the childcontrolids of group "abc" then …

This one should work as long as there is only one field with that name on the card (tried from message box).

Brian Milby
brian at milby7.com

> On Aug 23, 2024, at 8:05 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> On 8/23/2024 7:45 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hi jbv,
>> 
>>>> Am 23.08.2024 um 13:27 schrieb jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> Hi list,
>>> 
>>> Is there a quick way to check if a group contains a specific control,
>>> something like :
>>> if there is a fld "xyz" in grp "abc" of this cd
>>> I tried many things but it always generates an error.
>>> So far, the only way I can think of is to maintain a custom prop
>>> for each group, featuring a string that is the list of all controls
>>> names of the group.
>> if you don't have any other controls with the same name,
>> you could check:
>> -> lineoffset("xyz",the childcontrolnames of grp "abc")
>> 
> 
> or, if you prefer:
> 
> if "xyz" is among the lines of the childcontrolnames of group "abc" then
> 
> NOTE: As mentioned, "xyz" would need to be a unique name for control in the group. If you have a field "xyz" and a button "xyz" (or 2 buttons or 2 or more fields with the same name, etc.) this is not accurate.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Aug 23 11:08:28 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2024 15:08:28 +0000
Subject: Bowing Out
In-Reply-To: <F4D01149-7B73-471E-948C-9F6DBE19720B@mac.com>
References: <F4D01149-7B73-471E-948C-9F6DBE19720B@mac.com>
Message-ID: <F9A6AD12-C25A-465F-BA67-D22014E40A11@iotecdigital.com>

+42

> On Aug 23, 2024, at 4:10 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Just a quick note to say that after many years of using LiveCode (including its predecessors) and doing some modest development - some of which was successfully sold to real users - I’ve decided that for me time’s up. This is because of seniority (as someone recently put it - I’m old!) and the feeling that at my time of life I can’t productively invest time or money in learning about Create and the whole direction of the LC technology. I’ve had fun over the years, and have benefitted hugely from the generosity and expertise of those on this list and of course from the direct support of the whole Kevin circus. I’ll miss it all.
> 
> For what it's worth, I have seen the Create demo and tried to understand the underlying model of app that is being aimed at. If I were still trying to contribute, I would be asking about how Create can help with apps that depend on user interaction with animations, and apps that are driven by external triggers like changing GPS coordinates, and most of all, about how far Create will assist with deployment, particularly on iOS - an issue that can dwarf the actual development effort of an app in terms of time and resources. If Create can take the user all the way from internal beta test to publication, that would be an achievement worth celebrating.
> 
> Anyway, it’s a great product that deserves success - so good luck to all involved.
> 
> I’ll lurk for a little longer, but really its goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
> 
> Graham
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From jeff at siphonophore.com  Fri Aug 23 15:37:56 2024
From: jeff at siphonophore.com (Jeff Reynolds)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2024 15:37:56 -0400
Subject: Bowing Out
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1724428801.123729.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.1.1724428801.123729.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <C75EA50A-8309-49CE-8FFE-0C63DF8C5B8F@siphonophore.com>

Graham,

I was going to send a similar post for myself, but yours is so spot on for me as well along with the fish, I’ll just say me too.

7x6

Jeff 

> On Aug 23, 2024, at 12:02 PM, use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:
> 
> Just a quick note to say that after many years of using LiveCode (including its predecessors) and doing some modest development - some of which was successfully sold to real users - I?ve decided that for me time?s up. This is because of seniority (as someone recently put it - I?m old!) and the feeling that at my time of life I can?t productively invest time or money in learning about Create and the whole direction of the LC technology. I?ve had fun over the years, and have benefitted hugely from the generosity and expertise of those on this list and of course from the direct support of the whole Kevin circus. I?ll miss it all.
> 
> For what it's worth, I have seen the Create demo and tried to understand the underlying model of app that is being aimed at. If I were still trying to contribute, I would be asking about how Create can help with apps that depend on user interaction with animations, and apps that are driven by external triggers like changing GPS coordinates, and most of all, about how far Create will assist with deployment, particularly on iOS - an issue that can dwarf the actual development effort of an app in terms of time and resources. If Create can take the user all the way from internal beta test to publication, that would be an achievement worth celebrating.
> 
> Anyway, it?s a great product that deserves success - so good luck to all involved.
> 
> I?ll lurk for a little longer, but really its goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
> 
> Graham



From christerp1 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 23 16:25:55 2024
From: christerp1 at gmail.com (=?utf-8?Q?Christer_Pyyhti=C3=A4?=)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2024 23:25:55 +0300
Subject: Bowing Out
In-Reply-To: <C75EA50A-8309-49CE-8FFE-0C63DF8C5B8F@siphonophore.com>
References: <mailman.1.1724428801.123729.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <C75EA50A-8309-49CE-8FFE-0C63DF8C5B8F@siphonophore.com>
Message-ID: <6844397B-AB67-40EE-8EF4-B4BEA9A55B35@gmail.com>

Thank you for telling of your views.

How’s about sharing the experiences?

Now which were the great inventions you made in creating your apps with LC? What were the biggest obstacles? What creations what you made were getting the best appreciations by your customers? Were there any problems you were no able to overcome in making your app where you wanted it to be?

Were you able to first write specs for the job and find out it was easier / more difficult to code with LC?

I could continue this, but what was the most difficult getting it done with LC?

Just to add here, as in any coding problem, in my mind it sometimes took too many rounds to get there, making it frustrating. Yet, with LC, the coding was so intuitive, I nearly could just write the spec, and get it running. And now there is an amount of ready coded / automatically rewritable blocks with Create - maybe beating your own blocks.

Let me know.


Christer Pyyhtiä
christerp1 at gmail.com



> On 23. Aug 2024, at 22.37, Jeff Reynolds via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Graham,
> 
> I was going to send a similar post for myself, but yours is so spot on for me as well along with the fish, I’ll just say me too.
> 
> 7x6
> 
> Jeff 
> 
>> On Aug 23, 2024, at 12:02 PM, use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:
>> 
>> Just a quick note to say that after many years of using LiveCode (including its predecessors) and doing some modest development - some of which was successfully sold to real users - I?ve decided that for me time?s up. This is because of seniority (as someone recently put it - I?m old!) and the feeling that at my time of life I can?t productively invest time or money in learning about Create and the whole direction of the LC technology. I?ve had fun over the years, and have benefitted hugely from the generosity and expertise of those on this list and of course from the direct support of the whole Kevin circus. I?ll miss it all.
>> 
>> For what it's worth, I have seen the Create demo and tried to understand the underlying model of app that is being aimed at. If I were still trying to contribute, I would be asking about how Create can help with apps that depend on user interaction with animations, and apps that are driven by external triggers like changing GPS coordinates, and most of all, about how far Create will assist with deployment, particularly on iOS - an issue that can dwarf the actual development effort of an app in terms of time and resources. If Create can take the user all the way from internal beta test to publication, that would be an achievement worth celebrating.
>> 
>> Anyway, it?s a great product that deserves success - so good luck to all involved.
>> 
>> I?ll lurk for a little longer, but really its goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
>> 
>> Graham
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From dick.kriesel at mail.com  Sat Aug 24 21:36:25 2024
From: dick.kriesel at mail.com (Dick Kriesel)
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2024 18:36:25 -0700
Subject: How to check if a group contains a specific control ?
In-Reply-To: <6364A226-62B7-44D4-BB60-030BC87A7DE6@milby7.com>
References: <c386b4f7-0f8e-44c9-b2fb-3acae4788f16@researchware.com>
 <6364A226-62B7-44D4-BB60-030BC87A7DE6@milby7.com>
Message-ID: <2D387847-74B5-4D20-AFB2-3C743DF33DCE@mail.com>

yet another alternative:

if the long id of <your control> ends with the long id of <your group> then …

this catches controls whose ownership includes intervening grouping between your control and your group

— Dick

> On Aug 23, 2024, at 5:48 AM, Brian Milby via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Another alternative.
> 
> If the short id of fld "xyz" is among the lines of the childcontrolids of group "abc" then …
> 
> This one should work as long as there is only one field with that name on the card (tried from message box).
> 
> Brian Milby
> brian at milby7.com
> 
>> On Aug 23, 2024, at 8:05 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> On 8/23/2024 7:45 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Hi jbv,
>>> 
>>>>> Am 23.08.2024 um 13:27 schrieb jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi list,
>>>> 
>>>> Is there a quick way to check if a group contains a specific control,
>>>> something like :
>>>> if there is a fld "xyz" in grp "abc" of this cd
>>>> I tried many things but it always generates an error.
>>>> So far, the only way I can think of is to maintain a custom prop
>>>> for each group, featuring a string that is the list of all controls
>>>> names of the group.
>>> if you don't have any other controls with the same name,
>>> you could check:
>>> -> lineoffset("xyz",the childcontrolnames of grp "abc")
>>> 
>> 
>> or, if you prefer:
>> 
>> if "xyz" is among the lines of the childcontrolnames of group "abc" then
>> 
>> NOTE: As mentioned, "xyz" would need to be a unique name for control in the group. If you have a field "xyz" and a button "xyz" (or 2 buttons or 2 or more fields with the same name, etc.) this is not accurate.
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From curry at pair.com  Sun Aug 25 04:53:34 2024
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2024 04:53:34 -0400
Subject: Bowing Out
In-Reply-To: <F4D01149-7B73-471E-948C-9F6DBE19720B@mac.com>
References: <F4D01149-7B73-471E-948C-9F6DBE19720B@mac.com>
Message-ID: <c76e7b6d-207e-4955-8293-a964d91ba238@pair.com>

Graham:

 > but really its goodbye and thanks for all the fish.

Much love/respect, appreciation, and an extra-special fish -

Keep in touch on/off-list.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
"PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
https://livecodeconsulting.com/


From curry at pair.com  Sun Aug 25 19:01:12 2024
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2024 19:01:12 -0400
Subject: How to check if a group contains a specific control ?
In-Reply-To: <963358ee2ad8f11dfe3b95f474d3891c@souslelogo.com>
References: <963358ee2ad8f11dfe3b95f474d3891c@souslelogo.com>
Message-ID: <7383f4d0-6296-4a61-9135-7ed47bfa35d8@pair.com>

jbv:

 > Is there a quick way to check if a group contains a specific control,
 > something like : if there is a fld "xyz" in grp "abc" of this cd
 > I tried many things but it always generates an error.

Here is an easy and elegant way - almost what you started with!
The key is 'of' versus 'in'. They are not quite the same.

Try this - tested Win/Mac, LC 9.6:

if there is a field "xyz" of group "abc" of this card then answer "xyz"
put there is a field "xyz" of group "abc" of this card & cr after t

For objects/controls, 'of' is the correct syntax.
But 'in' is mainly used for text. Not a safe substitute here!

(The Message Box may just ignore everything after 'in' -
testing only for a field "xyz". That can confuse about 'of' and 'in'.)

The Script Editor will actually error, since 'in' is unexpected.

Happy coding...

Curry Kenworthy

Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
"PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
https://livecodeconsulting.com/


From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Aug 26 06:30:08 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 12:30:08 +0200
Subject: Error creating Android Standalone
In-Reply-To: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>

Hi all,

I get the same error in the macOS Terminal when trying to execute a JAVA command.
Something is not (yet) installed on my machine!? Question is: what is it?

Please help, thank you!

> Am 23.08.2024 um 11:55 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi friends,
> 
> I get an error when creating an Android runtime:
> ----------------------------------------------
> There was an error while saving the standalone application could not encode class bundle - error:
> Error: AJNI error has occurred, please check your installation and try again Exception in thread "main" java.lang. UnsupportedClassVersionError:
> com/android/tools/r8/D8 has been compiled by a more recent version of the Java Runtime (class file version 55.0), this version of the Java Runtime only recognizes class file versions up to 52.0
> at java.lang.ClassLoader.defineClass 1(Native Method)
> at java.lang.ClassLoader.defineClass(ClassLoader.java:756)
> at java.security.SecureClassLoader.defineClass(SecureClassLoader.java:142)
> at java.net.URLClassLoader.defineClass(URLClassLoader.java:473)
> at java.net.URLClassLoader.access$100(URLClassLoader.java:74)
> at java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run(URLClassLoader.java:369)
> at java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run(URLClassLoader.java:363)
> at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method) at java.net.URLClassLoader.findClass(URLClassLoader.java:362)
> at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:418)
> at sun.misc.LauncherSAppClassLoader.loadClass(Launcher.java:355)
> at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:351)
> at sun.launcher.LauncherHelper.checkAndLoadMain(LauncherHelper.java:601)
> -------------------------------------------------

Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From merakosp at gmail.com  Mon Aug 26 06:43:41 2024
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 13:43:41 +0300
Subject: Error creating Android Standalone
In-Reply-To: <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Klaus,

What is your installed version of the *build-tools*? LiveCode expects
*only* version 31.0.0.

You can find the installed version here - you should have a subfolder named
"31.0.0" here:

/Users/<username>/Library/Android/sdk/build-tools/

If you have any newer version installed too, you have to remove it.

Kind regards,
Panos
--

From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Aug 26 07:00:02 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 13:00:02 +0200
Subject: Error creating Android Standalone
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <442D6A06-5676-45F4-BCDE-67D2C129AC09@major-k.de>

Hello Panos,

> Am 26.08.2024 um 12:43 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hello Klaus,
> 
> What is your installed version of the *build-tools*? LiveCode expects
> *only* version 31.0.0.
> You can find the installed version here - you should have a subfolder named
> "31.0.0" here:
> /Users/<username>/Library/Android/sdk/build-tools/
> If you have any newer version installed too, you have to remove it.
> 
> Kind regards,
> Panos

YES, that was it, I also had build tools 34 installed.
Thank you very much! :-)


Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Aug 26 07:05:15 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 13:05:15 +0200
Subject: Error creating Android Standalone
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7FDF98F6-1158-48C8-8F19-360A52E43EFD@major-k.de>

Hi Panos,

creating Anddroid runtimes now works with LC, however when 
using the macOS Terminal for a JAVA command, I still get these errors:
-------------------------------------------
Error: A JNI error has occurred, please check your installation and try again
Exception in thread "main" java.lang.UnsupportedClassVersionError: com/google/wireless/android/vending/developer/signing/tools/extern/export/ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool has been compiled by a more recent version of the Java Runtime (class file version 55.0), this version of the Java Runtime only recognizes class file versions up to 52.0
at java.lang.ClassLoader.defineClass1(Native Method)
at java.lang.ClassLoader.defineClass(ClassLoader.java:756)
at java.security.SecureClassLoader.defineClass(SecureClassLoader.java:142)
at java.net.URLClassLoader.defineClass(URLClassLoader.java:473)
at java.net.URLClassLoader.access$100(URLClassLoader.java:74)
at java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run(URLClassLoader.java:369)
at java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run(URLClassLoader.java:363)
at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method)
at java.net.URLClassLoader.findClass(URLClassLoader.java:362)
at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:418)
at sun.misc.Launcher$AppClassLoader.loadClass(Launcher.java:355)
at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:351)
at sun.launcher.LauncherHelper.checkAndLoadMain(LauncherHelper.java:601)
-----------------------------------------------
What is still wrong?


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From merakosp at gmail.com  Mon Aug 26 07:19:44 2024
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 14:19:44 +0300
Subject: Error creating Android Standalone
In-Reply-To: <7FDF98F6-1158-48C8-8F19-360A52E43EFD@major-k.de>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <7FDF98F6-1158-48C8-8F19-360A52E43EFD@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq9UiszJiLndFyMRf7XC1c7HmhxajaL4ayB54GQLm7Z9_A@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Klaus,

Hmm, it might be the case the terminal needs a newer Java version than the
one LiveCode expects. LiveCode expects v8.

What Java command do you want to execute in the terminal?

Kind regards,
Panos


On Mon, 26 Aug 2024 at 14:06, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Panos,
>
> creating Anddroid runtimes now works with LC, however when
> using the macOS Terminal for a JAVA command, I still get these errors:
> -------------------------------------------
> Error: A JNI error has occurred, please check your installation and try
> again
> Exception in thread "main" java.lang.UnsupportedClassVersionError:
> com/google/wireless/android/vending/developer/signing/tools/extern/export/ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool
> has been compiled by a more recent version of the Java Runtime (class file
> version 55.0), this version of the Java Runtime only recognizes class file
> versions up to 52.0
> at java.lang.ClassLoader.defineClass1(Native Method)
> at java.lang.ClassLoader.defineClass(ClassLoader.java:756)
> at java.security.SecureClassLoader.defineClass(SecureClassLoader.java:142)
> at java.net.URLClassLoader.defineClass(URLClassLoader.java:473)
> at java.net.URLClassLoader.access$100(URLClassLoader.java:74)
> at java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run(URLClassLoader.java:369)
> at java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run(URLClassLoader.java:363)
> at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method)
> at java.net.URLClassLoader.findClass(URLClassLoader.java:362)
> at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:418)
> at sun.misc.Launcher$AppClassLoader.loadClass(Launcher.java:355)
> at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:351)
> at sun.launcher.LauncherHelper.checkAndLoadMain(LauncherHelper.java:601)
> -----------------------------------------------
> What is still wrong?
>
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Aug 26 07:36:59 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 13:36:59 +0200
Subject: Error creating Android Standalone
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq9UiszJiLndFyMRf7XC1c7HmhxajaL4ayB54GQLm7Z9_A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <7FDF98F6-1158-48C8-8F19-360A52E43EFD@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq9UiszJiLndFyMRf7XC1c7HmhxajaL4ayB54GQLm7Z9_A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E1FB5230-F5FF-45D6-9AC0-B2292E109402@major-k.de>

Hi Panos,

> Am 26.08.2024 um 13:19 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hello Klaus,
> 
> Hmm, it might be the case the terminal needs a newer Java version than the
> one LiveCode expects. LiveCode expects v8.
> What Java command do you want to execute in the terminal?

see my mail from 13:25 with more info.

> Kind regards,
> Panos

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From merakosp at gmail.com  Mon Aug 26 07:50:56 2024
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 14:50:56 +0300
Subject: Error creating Android Standalone
In-Reply-To: <E1FB5230-F5FF-45D6-9AC0-B2292E109402@major-k.de>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <7FDF98F6-1158-48C8-8F19-360A52E43EFD@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq9UiszJiLndFyMRf7XC1c7HmhxajaL4ayB54GQLm7Z9_A@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1FB5230-F5FF-45D6-9AC0-B2292E109402@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq_isvRSh6AKoYP0tHmLnZCP6phZYYxtXaw=Oy219HQF0w@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Klaus,

Hmm, I do not see anything from 13:25 - could you paste it here?

Thanks,
Panos


On Mon, 26 Aug 2024 at 14:38, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Panos,
>
> > Am 26.08.2024 um 13:19 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> >
> > Hello Klaus,
> >
> > Hmm, it might be the case the terminal needs a newer Java version than
> the
> > one LiveCode expects. LiveCode expects v8.
> > What Java command do you want to execute in the terminal?
>
> see my mail from 13:25 with more info.
>
> > Kind regards,
> > Panos
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
>
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Aug 26 07:54:20 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 13:54:20 +0200
Subject: Error creating Android Standalone
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq_isvRSh6AKoYP0tHmLnZCP6phZYYxtXaw=Oy219HQF0w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <7FDF98F6-1158-48C8-8F19-360A52E43EFD@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq9UiszJiLndFyMRf7XC1c7HmhxajaL4ayB54GQLm7Z9_A@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1FB5230-F5FF-45D6-9AC0-B2292E109402@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_isvRSh6AKoYP0tHmLnZCP6phZYYxtXaw=Oy219HQF0w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E796D252-5E5E-4AE1-B7BD-29916781AFE5@major-k.de>

Hi Panos,

> Am 26.08.2024 um 13:50 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hello Klaus,
> 
> Hmm, I do not see anything from 13:25 - could you paste it here?

Sure:
----------------------------------------------------------------
More specific infos:
I need Google to reset my upload keystore file, you may remember, it was about two weeks ago.
Hint: Only the OWNER of the developer account has permission to request a key reset!

I was able to create the new keystore and PEM file as Google suggested:
---------------------------------
1.    • Follow the instructions in the Android Studio Help Center to generate a new key. It must be different from any previous keys, be a 2048-bit RSA key, and have 25-year validity. Alternatively, you can use the following command line to generate a new key:
      • keytool -genkeypair -alias upload -keyalg RSA -keysize 2048 -validity 9125 -keystore keystore.jks
2.    • Export the certificate for that key to PEM format:
      • keytool -export -rfc -alias upload -file upload_certificate.pem -keystore keystore.jks
3.    • Once you have generated a PEM file please follow the steps below:
      • Go to Setup > App integrity > App Signing.
      • Request Upload key reset.
      • Give a reason why you’re requesting a key reset.
      • Enter PEM file.
      • Click Request.
----------------------------------
But on the Google Play Console page for "App singning" Google will not accept the above mentioned (and proposed) PEM file in #3!
I need to download a "pepk.jar" file and use the terninal with this command (as seen 4 days ago on that page):
---------------------------------
$ java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=foo.keystore --alias=foo --output=output.zip signing-keystore=uploadkey.keystore --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias --rsa-aes - encryption --encryption-key-path=/path/to/encryption_public_key.pem

And then I get the errors below.
is the "pepk.jar" the problem and not compatible with my JAVA installation?

Strangely Matthias Rebbe saw this command on the "App singing" page YESTERDAY:
---------------------------------
java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=foo.keystore --alias=foo --output=output.zip --include-cert --rsa-aes-encryption --encryption-key-path=/path/to/encryption_public_key.pem

???

Both commands do not seem to work, I am completely lost and I don't even know where in the commands I need to put MY data in.
OK -> --keysore=##name of my keystore file## 8-)

Please can someone knowing give me some very good advice?
Android deadline (API 34) is this saturday, sigh... :-/
----------------------------------------------------------------

> Thanks,
> Panos
> 
> On Mon, 26 Aug 2024 at 14:38, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Panos,
>> 
>>> Am 26.08.2024 um 13:19 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> Hello Klaus,
>>> 
>>> Hmm, it might be the case the terminal needs a newer Java version than
>> the
>>> one LiveCode expects. LiveCode expects v8.
>>> What Java command do you want to execute in the terminal?
>> 
>> see my mail from 13:25 with more info.
>> 
>>> Kind regards,
>>> Panos
>> 
>> Best
>> 
>> Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From merakosp at gmail.com  Mon Aug 26 08:19:02 2024
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 15:19:02 +0300
Subject: Error creating Android Standalone
In-Reply-To: <E796D252-5E5E-4AE1-B7BD-29916781AFE5@major-k.de>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <7FDF98F6-1158-48C8-8F19-360A52E43EFD@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq9UiszJiLndFyMRf7XC1c7HmhxajaL4ayB54GQLm7Z9_A@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1FB5230-F5FF-45D6-9AC0-B2292E109402@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_isvRSh6AKoYP0tHmLnZCP6phZYYxtXaw=Oy219HQF0w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E796D252-5E5E-4AE1-B7BD-29916781AFE5@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq8rRg-DvnJ5MPSkyVr0CyTEMhm4EQn8dyOs5NOoQU+3mg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Klaus,

Ok I see.

Yes, so it seems you need to install a newer JDK version to work with the
terminal. So you need to do some JDK "dance":


- Download and install a newer (version >= 20.x) version of the Java JDK
- Verify it is installed correctly, by checking in
/Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/ - you should see a subfolder named e.g.
"jdk-20.0.1.jdk" there.

- In the Terminal, navigate (using cd) to the folder containing your
resources (pepk.jar, foo.keystore)
- Try the terminal command now:

java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=foo --alias=foo --output=output.zip
--rsa-aes-encryption
--encryption-key-path=/path/to/your/encryption_public_key.pem

If the command is successful, you should see a file "output.zip" in that
folder, which you have to upload to the Play Store

Note: To verify that the Terminal will indeed use the new jdk version
rather than the "old" v8 one, you can do in the Terminal:

java -version

If this still returns v8, thn try to temporarily remove v8 from
/Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/ and put it back once the terminal
command succeeds.

Hope this helps.

Kind regards,
Panos
--

From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Aug 26 08:32:48 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 14:32:48 +0200
Subject: Error creating Android Standalone
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq8rRg-DvnJ5MPSkyVr0CyTEMhm4EQn8dyOs5NOoQU+3mg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <7FDF98F6-1158-48C8-8F19-360A52E43EFD@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq9UiszJiLndFyMRf7XC1c7HmhxajaL4ayB54GQLm7Z9_A@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1FB5230-F5FF-45D6-9AC0-B2292E109402@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_isvRSh6AKoYP0tHmLnZCP6phZYYxtXaw=Oy219HQF0w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E796D252-5E5E-4AE1-B7BD-29916781AFE5@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq8rRg-DvnJ5MPSkyVr0CyTEMhm4EQn8dyOs5NOoQU+3mg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DC0EE835-E7E2-4761-ABF2-7C3980062408@major-k.de>

Hi Panos,

thank you, will try this!

java -version gives me:
---------------------
java version "1.8.0_311"
Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 1.8.0_311-b11)
Java HotSpot(TM) 64-Bit Server VM (build 25.311-b11, mixed mode)

And i don't even have a folder Java in /Library/

Question:
--------------------
> java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=foo --alias=foo --output=output.zip
> --rsa-aes-encryption
> --encryption-key-path=/path/to/your/encryption_public_key.pem
---------------------
Is this:

> ...
> --encryption-key-path=/path/to/your/encryption_public_key.pem

The PEM file I already created?

Why is this all so damn difficult and complicated? :-/

> Am 26.08.2024 um 14:19 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hello Klaus,
> 
> Ok I see.
> 
> Yes, so it seems you need to install a newer JDK version to work with the
> terminal. So you need to do some JDK "dance":
> 
> 
> - Download and install a newer (version >= 20.x) version of the Java JDK
> - Verify it is installed correctly, by checking in
> /Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/ - you should see a subfolder named e.g.
> "jdk-20.0.1.jdk" there.
> 
> - In the Terminal, navigate (using cd) to the folder containing your
> resources (pepk.jar, foo.keystore)
> - Try the terminal command now:
> 
> java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=foo --alias=foo --output=output.zip
> --rsa-aes-encryption
> --encryption-key-path=/path/to/your/encryption_public_key.pem
> 
> If the command is successful, you should see a file "output.zip" in that
> folder, which you have to upload to the Play Store
> 
> Note: To verify that the Terminal will indeed use the new jdk version
> rather than the "old" v8 one, you can do in the Terminal:
> 
> java -version
> 
> If this still returns v8, thn try to temporarily remove v8 from
> /Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/ and put it back once the terminal
> command succeeds.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> Kind regards,
> Panos

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From merakosp at gmail.com  Mon Aug 26 08:49:16 2024
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 15:49:16 +0300
Subject: Error creating Android Standalone
In-Reply-To: <DC0EE835-E7E2-4761-ABF2-7C3980062408@major-k.de>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <7FDF98F6-1158-48C8-8F19-360A52E43EFD@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq9UiszJiLndFyMRf7XC1c7HmhxajaL4ayB54GQLm7Z9_A@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1FB5230-F5FF-45D6-9AC0-B2292E109402@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_isvRSh6AKoYP0tHmLnZCP6phZYYxtXaw=Oy219HQF0w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E796D252-5E5E-4AE1-B7BD-29916781AFE5@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq8rRg-DvnJ5MPSkyVr0CyTEMhm4EQn8dyOs5NOoQU+3mg@mail.gmail.com>
 <DC0EE835-E7E2-4761-ABF2-7C3980062408@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq_d_HEScYH76p0RMC__V8RCqEqfbmhsFTPPkCXG8LL+EA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Klaus,




*> Is this:> ...>
--encryption-key-path=/path/to/your/encryption_public_key.pem> The PEM file
I already created?*

Yes this is it.

*> And i don't even have a folder Java in /Library/*

This is not possible! Note that I am referring to the system Library folder
(i.e. /Library/) - not the user's Library folder (i.e. not
/Users/<username>/Library/)

Since java -version returns java version "1.8.0_311" it means you have a
folder named "jdk1.8.0_311.jdk" in /Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/

Kind regards,
Panos
--

On Mon, 26 Aug 2024 at 15:33, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Panos,
>
> thank you, will try this!
>
> java -version gives me:
> ---------------------
> java version "1.8.0_311"
> Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 1.8.0_311-b11)
> Java HotSpot(TM) 64-Bit Server VM (build 25.311-b11, mixed mode)
>
> And i don't even have a folder Java in /Library/
>
> Question:
> --------------------
> > java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=foo --alias=foo --output=output.zip
> > --rsa-aes-encryption
> > --encryption-key-path=/path/to/your/encryption_public_key.pem
> ---------------------
> Is this:
>
> > ...
> > --encryption-key-path=/path/to/your/encryption_public_key.pem
>
> The PEM file I already created?
>
> Why is this all so damn difficult and complicated? :-/
>
> > Am 26.08.2024 um 14:19 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> >
> > Hello Klaus,
> >
> > Ok I see.
> >
> > Yes, so it seems you need to install a newer JDK version to work with the
> > terminal. So you need to do some JDK "dance":
> >
> >
> > - Download and install a newer (version >= 20.x) version of the Java JDK
> > - Verify it is installed correctly, by checking in
> > /Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/ - you should see a subfolder named
> e.g.
> > "jdk-20.0.1.jdk" there.
> >
> > - In the Terminal, navigate (using cd) to the folder containing your
> > resources (pepk.jar, foo.keystore)
> > - Try the terminal command now:
> >
> > java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=foo --alias=foo --output=output.zip
> > --rsa-aes-encryption
> > --encryption-key-path=/path/to/your/encryption_public_key.pem
> >
> > If the command is successful, you should see a file "output.zip" in that
> > folder, which you have to upload to the Play Store
> >
> > Note: To verify that the Terminal will indeed use the new jdk version
> > rather than the "old" v8 one, you can do in the Terminal:
> >
> > java -version
> >
> > If this still returns v8, thn try to temporarily remove v8 from
> > /Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/ and put it back once the terminal
> > command succeeds.
> >
> > Hope this helps.
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > Panos
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
>
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Aug 26 08:56:33 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 14:56:33 +0200
Subject: Error creating Android Standalone
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq_d_HEScYH76p0RMC__V8RCqEqfbmhsFTPPkCXG8LL+EA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <7FDF98F6-1158-48C8-8F19-360A52E43EFD@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq9UiszJiLndFyMRf7XC1c7HmhxajaL4ayB54GQLm7Z9_A@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1FB5230-F5FF-45D6-9AC0-B2292E109402@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_isvRSh6AKoYP0tHmLnZCP6phZYYxtXaw=Oy219HQF0w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E796D252-5E5E-4AE1-B7BD-29916781AFE5@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq8rRg-DvnJ5MPSkyVr0CyTEMhm4EQn8dyOs5NOoQU+3mg@mail.gmail.com>
 <DC0EE835-E7E2-4761-ABF2-7C3980062408@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_d_HEScYH76p0RMC__V8RCqEqfbmhsFTPPkCXG8LL+EA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <748291BF-A6BC-45A6-8177-FB884885AB68@major-k.de>

Hi Panos,

> Am 26.08.2024 um 14:49 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hello Klaus,
> 
> *> Is this:> ...>
> --encryption-key-path=/path/to/your/encryption_public_key.pem> The PEM file
> I already created?*
> 
> Yes this is it.

aha, I guessed, thank you!

Google could be a TAD more specific in my opinion.
Not everyone is a knowing JAVA developer.

> *> And i don't even have a folder Java in /Library/*
> 
> This is not possible! Note that I am referring to the system Library folder
> (i.e. /Library/) - not the user's Library folder (i.e. not
> /Users/<username>/Library/)

Oops, yes sorry.

> Since java -version returns java version "1.8.0_311" it means you have a
> folder named "jdk1.8.0_311.jdk" in /Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/

Yep, I have this folder in JavaVirtualMachines: jdk1.8.0_281.jdk

> Kind regards,
> Panos
> --

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Aug 26 10:43:27 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 16:43:27 +0200
Subject: Error creating Android Standalone
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5371AAFB-9C33-4443-8EB2-715EA981BD93@major-k.de>

Hi all,

> Am 26.08.2024 um 12:43 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hello Klaus,
> 
> What is your installed version of the *build-tools*? LiveCode expects
> *only* version 31.0.0.
> 
> You can find the installed version here - you should have a subfolder named
> "31.0.0" here:
> /Users/<username>/Library/Android/sdk/build-tools/
> If you have any newer version installed too, you have to remove it.

for your interest:
I found that "Android Studio" automatically installs "buid tools 34" without asking
when I create a new adaptive icon there, did not find a setting to stop this.

So I always need to remove this again before creating a runtime in LC...

> Kind regards,
> Panos
> --

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Mon Aug 26 11:25:03 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 15:25:03 +0000
Subject: Error creating Android Standalone
In-Reply-To: <DC0EE835-E7E2-4761-ABF2-7C3980062408@major-k.de>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <7FDF98F6-1158-48C8-8F19-360A52E43EFD@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq9UiszJiLndFyMRf7XC1c7HmhxajaL4ayB54GQLm7Z9_A@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1FB5230-F5FF-45D6-9AC0-B2292E109402@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_isvRSh6AKoYP0tHmLnZCP6phZYYxtXaw=Oy219HQF0w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E796D252-5E5E-4AE1-B7BD-29916781AFE5@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq8rRg-DvnJ5MPSkyVr0CyTEMhm4EQn8dyOs5NOoQU+3mg@mail.gmail.com>
 <DC0EE835-E7E2-4761-ABF2-7C3980062408@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <F0EC5BE0-7A5F-492B-BA20-833F46626988@iotecdigital.com>

Every entity is trying to solve their own subset of problems. The real question is, why has the industry seemingly abandoned the concept of, “backwards compatible”? It seems nowadays that we are all expected; no required to upgrade to the latest greatest, irrespective of the catch 22’s like yours that will inevitably result.

That being said, I wonder that there is no a command to tell terminal or Livecode which version of the engine you want to work with.

Bob S


On Aug 26, 2024, at 5:32 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

Why is this all so damn difficult and complicated? :-/



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Mon Aug 26 11:29:09 2024
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 17:29:09 +0200
Subject: Error creating Android Standalone
In-Reply-To: <F0EC5BE0-7A5F-492B-BA20-833F46626988@iotecdigital.com>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <7FDF98F6-1158-48C8-8F19-360A52E43EFD@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq9UiszJiLndFyMRf7XC1c7HmhxajaL4ayB54GQLm7Z9_A@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1FB5230-F5FF-45D6-9AC0-B2292E109402@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_isvRSh6AKoYP0tHmLnZCP6phZYYxtXaw=Oy219HQF0w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E796D252-5E5E-4AE1-B7BD-29916781AFE5@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq8rRg-DvnJ5MPSkyVr0CyTEMhm4EQn8dyOs5NOoQU+3mg@mail.gmail.com>
 <DC0EE835-E7E2-4761-ABF2-7C3980062408@major-k.de>
 <F0EC5BE0-7A5F-492B-BA20-833F46626988@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <C5F2633B-7691-4C34-A8B5-DD4BA2C7F2E8@m-r-d.de>

+1

> Am 26.08.2024 um 17:25 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Every entity is trying to solve their own subset of problems. The real question is, why has the industry seemingly abandoned the concept of, “backwards compatible”? It seems nowadays that we are all expected; no required to upgrade to the latest greatest, irrespective of the catch 22’s like yours that will inevitably result.
> 
> That being said, I wonder that there is no a command to tell terminal or Livecode which version of the engine you want to work with.
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
> On Aug 26, 2024, at 5:32 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Why is this all so damn difficult and complicated? :-/
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From merakosp at gmail.com  Mon Aug 26 12:47:28 2024
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 19:47:28 +0300
Subject: Error creating Android Standalone
In-Reply-To: <C5F2633B-7691-4C34-A8B5-DD4BA2C7F2E8@m-r-d.de>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <7FDF98F6-1158-48C8-8F19-360A52E43EFD@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq9UiszJiLndFyMRf7XC1c7HmhxajaL4ayB54GQLm7Z9_A@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1FB5230-F5FF-45D6-9AC0-B2292E109402@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_isvRSh6AKoYP0tHmLnZCP6phZYYxtXaw=Oy219HQF0w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E796D252-5E5E-4AE1-B7BD-29916781AFE5@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq8rRg-DvnJ5MPSkyVr0CyTEMhm4EQn8dyOs5NOoQU+3mg@mail.gmail.com>
 <DC0EE835-E7E2-4761-ABF2-7C3980062408@major-k.de>
 <F0EC5BE0-7A5F-492B-BA20-833F46626988@iotecdigital.com>
 <C5F2633B-7691-4C34-A8B5-DD4BA2C7F2E8@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq9UggUdKBf4Pk-_zMwjwb+VnDAftCRFsw9EFeDyVGeFWg@mail.gmail.com>

In the IDE, in the mobile prefs, there is an invisible button (I think it
is called "chooseJDK" or such - I am not in the office now) that allows you
to manually choose the desired JDK path. That way we could have both JDK v8
(required by LC) and newer ones installed.

I am not sure why this button is hidden though - but you could make it
visible by doing in the msg box:

set the visible of button "chooseJDK" of card "mobile support" of stack
"revPreferencesGUI" to true

Kind regards,
Panos
--

On Mon, 26 Aug 2024 at 18:30, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> +1
>
> > Am 26.08.2024 um 17:25 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> >
> > Every entity is trying to solve their own subset of problems. The real
> question is, why has the industry seemingly abandoned the concept of,
> “backwards compatible”? It seems nowadays that we are all expected; no
> required to upgrade to the latest greatest, irrespective of the catch 22’s
> like yours that will inevitably result.
> >
> > That being said, I wonder that there is no a command to tell terminal or
> Livecode which version of the engine you want to work with.
> >
> > Bob S
> >
> >
> > On Aug 26, 2024, at 5:32 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Why is this all so damn difficult and complicated? :-/
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Mon Aug 26 15:34:47 2024
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 21:34:47 +0200
Subject: Error creating Android Standalone
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq9UggUdKBf4Pk-_zMwjwb+VnDAftCRFsw9EFeDyVGeFWg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <7FDF98F6-1158-48C8-8F19-360A52E43EFD@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq9UiszJiLndFyMRf7XC1c7HmhxajaL4ayB54GQLm7Z9_A@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1FB5230-F5FF-45D6-9AC0-B2292E109402@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_isvRSh6AKoYP0tHmLnZCP6phZYYxtXaw=Oy219HQF0w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E796D252-5E5E-4AE1-B7BD-29916781AFE5@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq8rRg-DvnJ5MPSkyVr0CyTEMhm4EQn8dyOs5NOoQU+3mg@mail.gmail.com>
 <DC0EE835-E7E2-4761-ABF2-7C3980062408@major-k.de>
 <F0EC5BE0-7A5F-492B-BA20-833F46626988@iotecdigital.com>
 <C5F2633B-7691-4C34-A8B5-DD4BA2C7F2E8@m-r-d.de>
 <CA+JfEq9UggUdKBf4Pk-_zMwjwb+VnDAftCRFsw9EFeDyVGeFWg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ACA22D0F-31D4-4D9D-88A9-31BD140EEA21@m-r-d.de>

Thanks Panos!

Regards,
Matthias


> Am 26.08.2024 um 18:47 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> In the IDE, in the mobile prefs, there is an invisible button (I think it
> is called "chooseJDK" or such - I am not in the office now) that allows you
> to manually choose the desired JDK path. That way we could have both JDK v8
> (required by LC) and newer ones installed.
> 
> I am not sure why this button is hidden though - but you could make it
> visible by doing in the msg box:
> 
> set the visible of button "chooseJDK" of card "mobile support" of stack
> "revPreferencesGUI" to true
> 
> Kind regards,
> Panos
> --
> 
> On Mon, 26 Aug 2024 at 18:30, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> +1
>> 
>>> Am 26.08.2024 um 17:25 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> Every entity is trying to solve their own subset of problems. The real
>> question is, why has the industry seemingly abandoned the concept of,
>> “backwards compatible”? It seems nowadays that we are all expected; no
>> required to upgrade to the latest greatest, irrespective of the catch 22’s
>> like yours that will inevitably result.
>>> 
>>> That being said, I wonder that there is no a command to tell terminal or
>> Livecode which version of the engine you want to work with.
>>> 
>>> Bob S
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Aug 26, 2024, at 5:32 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Why is this all so damn difficult and complicated? :-/
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From klaus at major-k.de  Tue Aug 27 08:06:22 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2024 14:06:22 +0200
Subject: Still problems with creating the neccessary file for keystore reset
 (Lengthy mail)
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F94EB80A-150C-4F77-83DB-12816D167BCF@major-k.de>

Hi all,

"The torture never stops" (F.Z.)

We are still struggling with creating the correct file for Google to reset the upload key,
and I get the feeling that Google is incompatible with Google!?

The very long story:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
LC 10rc1, macOS 14.6.1 on a M2 Mac Mini

Android Studio Iguana | 2023.2.1 Patch 1
Build #AI-232.10300.40.2321.11567975, built on March 13, 2024
Runtime version: 17.0.9+0-17.0.9b1087.7-11185874 aarch64
VM: OpenJDK 64-Bit Server VM by JetBrains s.r.o.
macOS 14.6.1
GC: G1 Young Generation, G1 Old Generation
Memory: 2048M
Cores: 8
Metal Rendering is ON
Registry:
    ide.experimental.ui=true

Google support reponded to my question (Can I rest the upload keystore?) with the instructions quoted below.

I created a new keystore file with "Android Studio":

> 1.    • Follow the instructions in the Android Studio Help Center to generate a new key.
> It must be different from any previous keys, be a 2048-bit RSA key, and have 25-year validity.
> Alternatively, you can use the following command line to generate a new key:
>        • keytool -genkeypair -alias upload -keyalg RSA -keysize 2048 -validity 9125 -keystore keystore.jks

Worked out fine and Matthias Rebbe and I could use it with LC to sign my Android app without any problems!
-----------------------------------------
Keystore file -> android_upload.keystore
Password: XXX1

Key:
Alias: sehenkey
Password: XXX2
-----------------------------------------

> 2.    • Export the certificate for that key to PEM format:
>        • keytool -export -rfc -alias upload -file upload_certificate.pem -keystore keystore.jks

Created the PEM file successfully -> upload_certificate.pem

> 3.    • Once you have generated a PEM file please follow the steps below:
>        • Go to Setup > App integrity > App Signing.
>        • Request Upload key reset.
>        • Give a reason why you’re requesting a key reset.
>        • Enter PEM file.
>        • Click Request.

Google does not accept the above mentioned PEM file (BIG fun, thank you support) and shows a JAVA terminal
command that would output a ZIPped PEM file to upload to Google. 

See a screenshot here: <https://major-k.de/java_terminal.png>
(Strangely Matthias Rebbe saw a completely differenet command in HIS account on the app signing page!?)

And also let me download a JAR file "pepk.jar" which obviously does the actual work.


Matthias was so kind to check the terminal stuff for me with a higher JAVA version (jdk 20), so I could avoid the SDK "dance" :-)
The script with all placeholder replaced with my data, maybe this is not completely correct?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey --output=output.zip signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias --rsa-aes -encryption --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But here is what he got:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Error: Unable to parse the input: [--keystore=android_upload.keystore, --alias=sehenkey, --output=output.zip, signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore, --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias, --rsa-aes, -encryption, --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem]
java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Invalid argument: signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore
at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.Utils.processArgs(Utils.java:32)
at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.main(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:110)
USAGE:
       java -jar pepk.jar
         --keystore <release_keystore>
         --alias <key_alias>
         --output=<output_file>
         (--rsa-aes-encryption --encryption-key-path=</path/to/encryption_public_key.pem> | --encryptionkey=<encryption_key_hex>)
         [--signing-keystore <keystore> [--signing-key-alias=<alias>]]
         [--include-cert]

pepk (Play Encrypt Private Key) is a tool for exporting private keys from a
Java Keystore and encrypting them for transfer to Google Play as part of
enrolling in App Signing by Google Play.


        REQUIRED FLAGS

--keystore            Path to the keystore containing the private key to export.

--alias               Alias of the private key in the keystore.

--output              File in which to output the encrypted private key.

        OPTIONAL FLAGS

--keystore-pass       Password for the keystore. If not set, will be prompted on
                      the command line.

--key-pass            Password for the key inside the keystore. If not set, the
                      same password as the keystore will be used, or if none was
                      set, it will be prompted on the command line.

--signing-keystore    Path to the keystore containing the private key that will
                      be used for signing the exported encrypted private key.

--signing-key-alias   Alias of the private key used for signing in the
                      signing Keystore. Must be specified if --signing-keystore
                      flag is set.

--rsa-aes-encryption  Use RSA AES Key Wrap encryption for encrypting the
                      private key.

--encryption-key-path Path to the PEM-encoded public key to be used for
                      encrypting the private key. Must be specified if
                      --rsa-aes-encryption is set.

--encryptionkey       Public key to encrypt the private key with. This will be
                      the hex encoded bytes of the public key. The public key
                      is a 4-byte identity followed by a 64-byte P256 point.
                      Must be specified if --rsa-aes-encryption is not set.

--include-cert        Include the public certificate to be exported along with
                      the encrypted private key.

        OTHER OPTIONS

--help                Show this usage page and exit.

--license             Show the license for the tool and exit.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So we got stuck!? 
Any insight highly appreciated! 
Also off-list if neccessary.

Thanks a lot in advance!


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From mark at livecode.com  Tue Aug 27 08:11:53 2024
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2024 13:11:53 +0100
Subject: Still problems with creating the neccessary file for keystore
 reset (Lengthy mail)
In-Reply-To: <F94EB80A-150C-4F77-83DB-12816D167BCF@major-k.de>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <F94EB80A-150C-4F77-83DB-12816D167BCF@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <5e55c3d97ffc70543f380c54a88ae648@livecode.com>

On 2024-08-27 13:06, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey 
> --output=output.zip signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore 
> --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias --rsa-aes -encryption 
> --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem

There's a missing `--` in front of `signing-keystore` - that's causing 
the args error:

> Error: Unable to parse the input: [--keystore=android_upload.keystore, 
> --alias=sehenkey, --output=output.zip, 
> signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore, 
> --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias, --rsa-aes, -encryption, 
> --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem]
> java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Invalid argument: 
> signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things


From klaus at major-k.de  Tue Aug 27 15:19:10 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2024 21:19:10 +0200
Subject: Still problems with creating the neccessary file for keystore
 reset (Lengthy mail)
In-Reply-To: <5e55c3d97ffc70543f380c54a88ae648@livecode.com>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <F94EB80A-150C-4F77-83DB-12816D167BCF@major-k.de>
 <5e55c3d97ffc70543f380c54a88ae648@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <C837AA3F-D425-40AF-8714-32368AAF71EC@major-k.de>

Hi Mark,

> Am 27.08.2024 um 14:11 schrieb Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> On 2024-08-27 13:06, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey --output=output.zip signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias --rsa-aes -encryption --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
> There's a missing `--` in front of `signing-keystore` - that's causing the args error:
>> Error: Unable to parse the input: [--keystore=android_upload.keystore, --alias=sehenkey, --output=output.zip, signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore, --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias, --rsa-aes, -encryption, --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem]
>> java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Invalid argument: signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore
> 
> Warmest Regards,
> 
> Mark.

thank you, but that was not it.

Here is what Matthias got with the two --
------------------------------------------------------------
 java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey --output=output.zip --signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias --rsa-aes-encryption --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
Enter password for store 'android_upload.keystore':
Enter password for key 'sehenkey':
Error: Unable to export or encrypt the private key
java.security.spec.InvalidKeySpecException: java.security.InvalidKeyException: Unable to decode key
at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAKeyFactory.engineGeneratePublic(RSAKeyFactory.java:241)
at java.base/java.security.KeyFactory.generatePublic(KeyFactory.java:351)
at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.readPublicKey(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:309)
at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.encryptPrivateKeyWithCkmRsaAesKeyWrapEncryption(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:283)
at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.run(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:213)
at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.main(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:165)
Caused by: java.security.InvalidKeyException: Unable to decode key
at java.base/sun.security.x509.X509Key.decode(X509Key.java:368)
at java.base/sun.security.x509.X509Key.decode(X509Key.java:374)
at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAPublicKeyImpl.<init>(RSAPublicKeyImpl.java:148)
at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAPublicKeyImpl.newKey(RSAPublicKeyImpl.java:80)
at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAKeyFactory.generatePublic(RSAKeyFactory.java:324)
at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAKeyFactory.engineGeneratePublic(RSAKeyFactory.java:237)
... 5 more
Caused by: java.io.IOException: DerValue.getOID, not an OID 2
at java.base/sun.security.util.DerValue.getOID(DerValue.java:552)
at java.base/sun.security.util.DerInputStream.getOID(DerInputStream.java:165)
at java.base/sun.security.x509.AlgorithmId.parse(AlgorithmId.java:398)
at java.base/sun.security.x509.X509Key.decode(X509Key.java:361)
... 10 more
------------------------------------------------------------
:-(

Any ideas?


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From klaus at major-k.de  Tue Aug 27 15:52:14 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2024 21:52:14 +0200
Subject: Still problems with creating the neccessary file for keystore
 reset (Lengthy mail)
In-Reply-To: <C837AA3F-D425-40AF-8714-32368AAF71EC@major-k.de>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <F94EB80A-150C-4F77-83DB-12816D167BCF@major-k.de>
 <5e55c3d97ffc70543f380c54a88ae648@livecode.com>
 <C837AA3F-D425-40AF-8714-32368AAF71EC@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <CED371B6-D59B-4E39-8B73-AE1D05FB2E5B@major-k.de>

Correction in the command:
--signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias
needs to be :
--signing-key-alias=sehenkey

But same errors. :-/

> Am 27.08.2024 um 21:19 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi Mark,
> 
>> Am 27.08.2024 um 14:11 schrieb Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> On 2024-08-27 13:06, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey --output=output.zip signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias --rsa-aes -encryption --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
>> There's a missing `--` in front of `signing-keystore` - that's causing the args error:
>>> Error: Unable to parse the input: [--keystore=android_upload.keystore, --alias=sehenkey, --output=output.zip, signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore, --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias, --rsa-aes, -encryption, --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem]
>>> java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Invalid argument: signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore
>> 
>> Warmest Regards,
>> 
>> Mark.
> 
> thank you, but that was not it.
> 
> Here is what Matthias got with the two --
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey --output=output.zip --signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias --rsa-aes-encryption --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey --output=output.zip --signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore --signing-key-alias=sehenkey --rsa-aes-encryption --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
> Enter password for store 'android_upload.keystore':
> Enter password for key 'sehenkey':
> Error: Unable to export or encrypt the private key
> java.security.spec.InvalidKeySpecException: java.security.InvalidKeyException: Unable to decode key
> at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAKeyFactory.engineGeneratePublic(RSAKeyFactory.java:241)
> at java.base/java.security.KeyFactory.generatePublic(KeyFactory.java:351)
> at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.readPublicKey(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:309)
> at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.encryptPrivateKeyWithCkmRsaAesKeyWrapEncryption(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:283)
> at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.run(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:213)
> at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.main(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:165)
> Caused by: java.security.InvalidKeyException: Unable to decode key
> at java.base/sun.security.x509.X509Key.decode(X509Key.java:368)
> at java.base/sun.security.x509.X509Key.decode(X509Key.java:374)
> at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAPublicKeyImpl.<init>(RSAPublicKeyImpl.java:148)
> at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAPublicKeyImpl.newKey(RSAPublicKeyImpl.java:80)
> at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAKeyFactory.generatePublic(RSAKeyFactory.java:324)
> at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAKeyFactory.engineGeneratePublic(RSAKeyFactory.java:237)
> ... 5 more
> Caused by: java.io.IOException: DerValue.getOID, not an OID 2
> at java.base/sun.security.util.DerValue.getOID(DerValue.java:552)
> at java.base/sun.security.util.DerInputStream.getOID(DerInputStream.java:165)
> at java.base/sun.security.x509.AlgorithmId.parse(AlgorithmId.java:398)
> at java.base/sun.security.x509.X509Key.decode(X509Key.java:361)
> ... 10 more
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> :-(
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From klaus at major-k.de  Wed Aug 28 02:36:44 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2024 08:36:44 +0200
Subject: Still problems with creating the neccessary file for keystore
 reset (Lengthy mail)
In-Reply-To: <CED371B6-D59B-4E39-8B73-AE1D05FB2E5B@major-k.de>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <F94EB80A-150C-4F77-83DB-12816D167BCF@major-k.de>
 <5e55c3d97ffc70543f380c54a88ae648@livecode.com>
 <C837AA3F-D425-40AF-8714-32368AAF71EC@major-k.de>
 <CED371B6-D59B-4E39-8B73-AE1D05FB2E5B@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <CB04C1D0-558D-4A36-98FA-9795D299301B@major-k.de>

Hi friends,

I really need your help, please, deadline is saturday! :-/

If someone who knows (at least a bit of) JAVA, could try this at home
see all my steps below, please send me a mail and I will send you the
"pepk.jar" file. Not sure if I can post it openly on my server.

Many, many thanks in advance!


Desparately

Klaus

> Am 27.08.2024 um 21:52 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Correction in the command:
> --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias
> needs to be :
> --signing-key-alias=sehenkey
> 
> But same errors. :-/
> 
>> Am 27.08.2024 um 21:19 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Hi Mark,
>> 
>>> Am 27.08.2024 um 14:11 schrieb Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> On 2024-08-27 13:06, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey --output=output.zip signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias --rsa-aes -encryption --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
>>> There's a missing `--` in front of `signing-keystore` - that's causing the args error:
>>>> Error: Unable to parse the input: [--keystore=android_upload.keystore, --alias=sehenkey, --output=output.zip, signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore, --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias, --rsa-aes, -encryption, --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem]
>>>> java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Invalid argument: signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore
>>> 
>>> Warmest Regards,
>>> 
>>> Mark.
>> 
>> thank you, but that was not it.
>> 
>> Here is what Matthias got with the two --
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey --output=output.zip --signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias --rsa-aes-encryption --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
> java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey --output=output.zip --signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore --signing-key-alias=sehenkey --rsa-aes-encryption --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
>> Enter password for store 'android_upload.keystore':
>> Enter password for key 'sehenkey':
>> Error: Unable to export or encrypt the private key
>> java.security.spec.InvalidKeySpecException: java.security.InvalidKeyException: Unable to decode key
>> at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAKeyFactory.engineGeneratePublic(RSAKeyFactory.java:241)
>> at java.base/java.security.KeyFactory.generatePublic(KeyFactory.java:351)
>> at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.readPublicKey(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:309)
>> at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.encryptPrivateKeyWithCkmRsaAesKeyWrapEncryption(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:283)
>> at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.run(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:213)
>> at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.main(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:165)
>> Caused by: java.security.InvalidKeyException: Unable to decode key
>> at java.base/sun.security.x509.X509Key.decode(X509Key.java:368)
>> at java.base/sun.security.x509.X509Key.decode(X509Key.java:374)
>> at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAPublicKeyImpl.<init>(RSAPublicKeyImpl.java:148)
>> at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAPublicKeyImpl.newKey(RSAPublicKeyImpl.java:80)
>> at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAKeyFactory.generatePublic(RSAKeyFactory.java:324)
>> at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAKeyFactory.engineGeneratePublic(RSAKeyFactory.java:237)
>> ... 5 more
>> Caused by: java.io.IOException: DerValue.getOID, not an OID 2
>> at java.base/sun.security.util.DerValue.getOID(DerValue.java:552)
>> at java.base/sun.security.util.DerInputStream.getOID(DerInputStream.java:165)
>> at java.base/sun.security.x509.AlgorithmId.parse(AlgorithmId.java:398)
>> at java.base/sun.security.x509.X509Key.decode(X509Key.java:361)
>> ... 10 more
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> :-(
>> 
>> Any ideas?
>> 
>> 
>> Best
>> 
>> Klaus
>> --
>> Klaus Major
>> https://www.major-k.de
>> https://www.major-k.de/bass
>> klaus at major-k.de
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From merakosp at gmail.com  Wed Aug 28 03:02:28 2024
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2024 10:02:28 +0300
Subject: Still problems with creating the neccessary file for keystore
 reset (Lengthy mail)
In-Reply-To: <CB04C1D0-558D-4A36-98FA-9795D299301B@major-k.de>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <F94EB80A-150C-4F77-83DB-12816D167BCF@major-k.de>
 <5e55c3d97ffc70543f380c54a88ae648@livecode.com>
 <C837AA3F-D425-40AF-8714-32368AAF71EC@major-k.de>
 <CED371B6-D59B-4E39-8B73-AE1D05FB2E5B@major-k.de>
 <CB04C1D0-558D-4A36-98FA-9795D299301B@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq-8+-H8ucfzpHxNUmb9zcarjVwRJvhUXPGo+xMckJg5kA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Klaus,

I vaguelly remember I had a similar problem in the past. After searching in
stackoverflow, it was suggested to use the OpenJDK version of Java, rather
than the Oracle's one.

I had used version 20.0.1. I still have the .tar file I downloaded back
then, it is named "openjdk-20.0.1_macos-x64_bin.tar" - and I think it is
this one:

https://download.java.net/java/GA/jdk20.0.1/b4887098932d415489976708ad6d1a4b/9/GPL/openjdk-20.0.1_macos-x64_bin.tar.gz

So it might be worth giving it a try.

Kind regards,
Panos
--

On Wed, 28 Aug 2024 at 09:38, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi friends,
>
> I really need your help, please, deadline is saturday! :-/
>
> If someone who knows (at least a bit of) JAVA, could try this at home
> see all my steps below, please send me a mail and I will send you the
> "pepk.jar" file. Not sure if I can post it openly on my server.
>
> Many, many thanks in advance!
>
>
> Desparately
>
> Klaus
>
> > Am 27.08.2024 um 21:52 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> >
> > Correction in the command:
> > --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias
> > needs to be :
> > --signing-key-alias=sehenkey
> >
> > But same errors. :-/
> >
> >> Am 27.08.2024 um 21:19 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> >>
> >> Hi Mark,
> >>
> >>> Am 27.08.2024 um 14:11 schrieb Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> >>>
> >>> On 2024-08-27 13:06, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
> >>>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore
> --alias=sehenkey --output=output.zip
> signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore
> --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias --rsa-aes -encryption
> --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
> >>> There's a missing `--` in front of `signing-keystore` - that's causing
> the args error:
> >>>> Error: Unable to parse the input:
> [--keystore=android_upload.keystore, --alias=sehenkey, --output=output.zip,
> signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore,
> --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias, --rsa-aes, -encryption,
> --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem]
> >>>> java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Invalid argument:
> signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore
> >>>
> >>> Warmest Regards,
> >>>
> >>> Mark.
> >>
> >> thank you, but that was not it.
> >>
> >> Here is what Matthias got with the two --
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey
> --output=output.zip --signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore
> --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias --rsa-aes-encryption
> --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
> > java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey
> --output=output.zip --signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore
> --signing-key-alias=sehenkey --rsa-aes-encryption
> --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
> >> Enter password for store 'android_upload.keystore':
> >> Enter password for key 'sehenkey':
> >> Error: Unable to export or encrypt the private key
> >> java.security.spec.InvalidKeySpecException:
> java.security.InvalidKeyException: Unable to decode key
> >> at
> java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAKeyFactory.engineGeneratePublic(RSAKeyFactory.java:241)
> >> at
> java.base/java.security.KeyFactory.generatePublic(KeyFactory.java:351)
> >> at
> com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.readPublicKey(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:309)
> >> at
> com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.encryptPrivateKeyWithCkmRsaAesKeyWrapEncryption(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:283)
> >> at
> com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.run(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:213)
> >> at
> com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.main(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:165)
> >> Caused by: java.security.InvalidKeyException: Unable to decode key
> >> at java.base/sun.security.x509.X509Key.decode(X509Key.java:368)
> >> at java.base/sun.security.x509.X509Key.decode(X509Key.java:374)
> >> at
> java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAPublicKeyImpl.<init>(RSAPublicKeyImpl.java:148)
> >> at
> java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAPublicKeyImpl.newKey(RSAPublicKeyImpl.java:80)
> >> at
> java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAKeyFactory.generatePublic(RSAKeyFactory.java:324)
> >> at
> java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAKeyFactory.engineGeneratePublic(RSAKeyFactory.java:237)
> >> ... 5 more
> >> Caused by: java.io.IOException: DerValue.getOID, not an OID 2
> >> at java.base/sun.security.util.DerValue.getOID(DerValue.java:552)
> >> at
> java.base/sun.security.util.DerInputStream.getOID(DerInputStream.java:165)
> >> at java.base/sun.security.x509.AlgorithmId.parse(AlgorithmId.java:398)
> >> at java.base/sun.security.x509.X509Key.decode(X509Key.java:361)
> >> ... 10 more
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> :-(
> >>
> >> Any ideas?
> >>
> >>
> >> Best
> >>
> >> Klaus
> >> --
> >> Klaus Major
> >> https://www.major-k.de
> >> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> >> klaus at major-k.de
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> > --
> > Klaus Major
> > https://www.major-k.de
> > https://www.major-k.de/bass
> > klaus at major-k.de
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From merakosp at gmail.com  Wed Aug 28 03:17:19 2024
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2024 10:17:19 +0300
Subject: Still problems with creating the neccessary file for keystore
 reset (Lengthy mail)
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq-8+-H8ucfzpHxNUmb9zcarjVwRJvhUXPGo+xMckJg5kA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <F94EB80A-150C-4F77-83DB-12816D167BCF@major-k.de>
 <5e55c3d97ffc70543f380c54a88ae648@livecode.com>
 <C837AA3F-D425-40AF-8714-32368AAF71EC@major-k.de>
 <CED371B6-D59B-4E39-8B73-AE1D05FB2E5B@major-k.de>
 <CB04C1D0-558D-4A36-98FA-9795D299301B@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq-8+-H8ucfzpHxNUmb9zcarjVwRJvhUXPGo+xMckJg5kA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq_=KRLyCEPt5cy9mAwurEcD5wUxjPrXTamZoNzLjCO+Dg@mail.gmail.com>

Also, in the screenshot you attached, it looks like the arguments
"signing-keystore" and "keystore" expect a different value.

The "keystore" looks like it should be the "android_upload.keystore" you
created and used to sign the app in LiveCode. I am not sure what is the
"signing-keystore" - were you asked to create one?

Same for the "signing-key-alias" - it looks like it is expected to be
different for the "alias" (the latter should be "sehenkey")

I had a look in the terminal command I had issued back then, and it did not
include these 2 arguments ("signing-key-alias" and "signing-keystore") - it
was just:

java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey
--output=output.zip  --rsa-aes-encryption
--encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem

So it might be worth giving this a try as well, again with openjdk 20.0.1

Kind regards,
Panos


On Wed, 28 Aug 2024 at 10:02, panagiotis merakos <merakosp at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello Klaus,
>
> I vaguelly remember I had a similar problem in the past. After searching
> in stackoverflow, it was suggested to use the OpenJDK version of Java,
> rather than the Oracle's one.
>
> I had used version 20.0.1. I still have the .tar file I downloaded back
> then, it is named "openjdk-20.0.1_macos-x64_bin.tar" - and I think it is
> this one:
>
>
> https://download.java.net/java/GA/jdk20.0.1/b4887098932d415489976708ad6d1a4b/9/GPL/openjdk-20.0.1_macos-x64_bin.tar.gz
>
> So it might be worth giving it a try.
>
> Kind regards,
> Panos
> --
>
> On Wed, 28 Aug 2024 at 09:38, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi friends,
>>
>> I really need your help, please, deadline is saturday! :-/
>>
>> If someone who knows (at least a bit of) JAVA, could try this at home
>> see all my steps below, please send me a mail and I will send you the
>> "pepk.jar" file. Not sure if I can post it openly on my server.
>>
>> Many, many thanks in advance!
>>
>>
>> Desparately
>>
>> Klaus
>>
>> > Am 27.08.2024 um 21:52 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> >
>> > Correction in the command:
>> > --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias
>> > needs to be :
>> > --signing-key-alias=sehenkey
>> >
>> > But same errors. :-/
>> >
>> >> Am 27.08.2024 um 21:19 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> >>
>> >> Hi Mark,
>> >>
>> >>> Am 27.08.2024 um 14:11 schrieb Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> >>>
>> >>> On 2024-08-27 13:06, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>> >>>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>>> java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore
>> --alias=sehenkey --output=output.zip
>> signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore
>> --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias --rsa-aes -encryption
>> --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
>> >>> There's a missing `--` in front of `signing-keystore` - that's
>> causing the args error:
>> >>>> Error: Unable to parse the input:
>> [--keystore=android_upload.keystore, --alias=sehenkey, --output=output.zip,
>> signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore,
>> --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias, --rsa-aes, -encryption,
>> --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem]
>> >>>> java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Invalid argument:
>> signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore
>> >>>
>> >>> Warmest Regards,
>> >>>
>> >>> Mark.
>> >>
>> >> thank you, but that was not it.
>> >>
>> >> Here is what Matthias got with the two --
>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey
>> --output=output.zip --signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore
>> --signing-key-alias=upload-key-alias --rsa-aes-encryption
>> --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
>> > java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey
>> --output=output.zip --signing-keystore=android_upload.keystore
>> --signing-key-alias=sehenkey --rsa-aes-encryption
>> --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
>> >> Enter password for store 'android_upload.keystore':
>> >> Enter password for key 'sehenkey':
>> >> Error: Unable to export or encrypt the private key
>> >> java.security.spec.InvalidKeySpecException:
>> java.security.InvalidKeyException: Unable to decode key
>> >> at
>> java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAKeyFactory.engineGeneratePublic(RSAKeyFactory.java:241)
>> >> at
>> java.base/java.security.KeyFactory.generatePublic(KeyFactory.java:351)
>> >> at
>> com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.readPublicKey(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:309)
>> >> at
>> com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.encryptPrivateKeyWithCkmRsaAesKeyWrapEncryption(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:283)
>> >> at
>> com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.run(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:213)
>> >> at
>> com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.main(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:165)
>> >> Caused by: java.security.InvalidKeyException: Unable to decode key
>> >> at java.base/sun.security.x509.X509Key.decode(X509Key.java:368)
>> >> at java.base/sun.security.x509.X509Key.decode(X509Key.java:374)
>> >> at
>> java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAPublicKeyImpl.<init>(RSAPublicKeyImpl.java:148)
>> >> at
>> java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAPublicKeyImpl.newKey(RSAPublicKeyImpl.java:80)
>> >> at
>> java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAKeyFactory.generatePublic(RSAKeyFactory.java:324)
>> >> at
>> java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAKeyFactory.engineGeneratePublic(RSAKeyFactory.java:237)
>> >> ... 5 more
>> >> Caused by: java.io.IOException: DerValue.getOID, not an OID 2
>> >> at java.base/sun.security.util.DerValue.getOID(DerValue.java:552)
>> >> at
>> java.base/sun.security.util.DerInputStream.getOID(DerInputStream.java:165)
>> >> at java.base/sun.security.x509.AlgorithmId.parse(AlgorithmId.java:398)
>> >> at java.base/sun.security.x509.X509Key.decode(X509Key.java:361)
>> >> ... 10 more
>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> :-(
>> >>
>> >> Any ideas?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Best
>> >>
>> >> Klaus
>> >> --
>> >> Klaus Major
>> >> https://www.major-k.de
>> >> https://www.major-k.de/bass
>> >> klaus at major-k.de
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> use-livecode mailing list
>> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> >
>> > --
>> > Klaus Major
>> > https://www.major-k.de
>> > https://www.major-k.de/bass
>> > klaus at major-k.de
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > use-livecode mailing list
>> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>> --
>> Klaus Major
>> https://www.major-k.de
>> https://www.major-k.de/bass
>> klaus at major-k.de
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>

From klaus at major-k.de  Wed Aug 28 03:37:54 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2024 09:37:54 +0200
Subject: Still problems with creating the neccessary file for keystore
 reset (Lengthy mail)
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq_=KRLyCEPt5cy9mAwurEcD5wUxjPrXTamZoNzLjCO+Dg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <F94EB80A-150C-4F77-83DB-12816D167BCF@major-k.de>
 <5e55c3d97ffc70543f380c54a88ae648@livecode.com>
 <C837AA3F-D425-40AF-8714-32368AAF71EC@major-k.de>
 <CED371B6-D59B-4E39-8B73-AE1D05FB2E5B@major-k.de>
 <CB04C1D0-558D-4A36-98FA-9795D299301B@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq-8+-H8ucfzpHxNUmb9zcarjVwRJvhUXPGo+xMckJg5kA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+JfEq_=KRLyCEPt5cy9mAwurEcD5wUxjPrXTamZoNzLjCO+Dg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0FA9E468-37DE-486F-A4E3-144A6EB05FDF@major-k.de>

Hi Panos,

> Am 28.08.2024 um 09:17 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Also, in the screenshot you attached, it looks like the arguments
> "signing-keystore" and "keystore" expect a different value.
> 
> The "keystore" looks like it should be the "android_upload.keystore" you
> created and used to sign the app in LiveCode. I am not sure what is the
> "signing-keystore" - were you asked to create one?
> 
> Same for the "signing-key-alias" - it looks like it is expected to be
> different for the "alias" (the latter should be "sehenkey")
> 
> I had a look in the terminal command I had issued back then, and it did not
> include these 2 arguments ("signing-key-alias" and "signing-keystore") - it
> was just:
> 
> java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey
> --output=output.zip  --rsa-aes-encryption
> --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
> 
> So it might be worth giving this a try as well, again with openjdk 20.0.1

sounds promising! :-)
Thank you, we will try this.

> Kind regards,
> Panos

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From jbv at souslelogo.com  Wed Aug 28 04:20:51 2024
From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2024 04:20:51 -0400
Subject: Strange...
Message-ID: <bc05254ac263532537f6db42cdf85cfe@souslelogo.com>

("936,474" is within "777,50,1424,10000") -> true

("936,474" is within "777,50,1424,100000") -> false

LC 9.6.9 on Mac OSX 10.15


From curry at pair.com  Wed Aug 28 05:15:50 2024
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2024 05:15:50 -0400
Subject: Still problems with creating the neccessary file for keystore
 reset (Lengthy mail)
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq-8+-H8ucfzpHxNUmb9zcarjVwRJvhUXPGo+xMckJg5kA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+JfEq-8+-H8ucfzpHxNUmb9zcarjVwRJvhUXPGo+xMckJg5kA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <80323263-6cdc-4708-9b9e-df03438be107@pair.com>

Klaus:

 > I really need your help, please, deadline is saturday! :-/

It has been almost a couple of years since last Android project;
my current laptop is not set up for it yet. But ...

Panos:

 > I vaguely remember I had a similar problem in the past. After
 > searching in stackoverflow, it was suggested to use the OpenJDK
 > version of Java, rather than the Oracle's one.

I do clearly remember that WHICH Java is absolutely crucial -
including the version number! NOT the newest version, I think.

Beyond that I only 'vaguely remember' like Panos,
but the right combination just works, otherwise futile.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
"PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
https://livecodeconsulting.com/


From klaus at major-k.de  Wed Aug 28 06:17:17 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2024 12:17:17 +0200
Subject: Still problems with creating the neccessary file for keystore
 reset (Lengthy mail)
In-Reply-To: <0FA9E468-37DE-486F-A4E3-144A6EB05FDF@major-k.de>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <F94EB80A-150C-4F77-83DB-12816D167BCF@major-k.de>
 <5e55c3d97ffc70543f380c54a88ae648@livecode.com>
 <C837AA3F-D425-40AF-8714-32368AAF71EC@major-k.de>
 <CED371B6-D59B-4E39-8B73-AE1D05FB2E5B@major-k.de>
 <CB04C1D0-558D-4A36-98FA-9795D299301B@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq-8+-H8ucfzpHxNUmb9zcarjVwRJvhUXPGo+xMckJg5kA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+JfEq_=KRLyCEPt5cy9mAwurEcD5wUxjPrXTamZoNzLjCO+Dg@mail.gmail.com>
 <0FA9E468-37DE-486F-A4E3-144A6EB05FDF@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <02C1524C-DDFE-495F-9804-BF4227444137@major-k.de>

Hi Panos,

I had created a new keystore and PEM file with the shell commands that Gooogle support supplied.
Still no joy...
----------------------------------------------------
% java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload2.jks --alias=upload --output=output.zip  --rsa-aes-encryption --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate2.pem
Enter password for store 'android_upload2.jks':
Enter password for key 'upload':
Error: Unable to export or encrypt the private key
java.security.UnrecoverableKeyException: Get Key failed: Given final block not properly padded. Such issues can arise if a bad key is used during decryption.
	at java.base/sun.security.pkcs12.PKCS12KeyStore.engineGetKey(PKCS12KeyStore.java:454)
	at java.base/sun.security.util.KeyStoreDelegator.engineGetKey(KeyStoreDelegator.java:93)
	at java.base/java.security.KeyStore.getKey(KeyStore.java:1075)
	at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.KeystoreHelper.extractPrivateKey(KeystoreHelper.java:63)
	at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.KeystoreHelper.getPrivateKey(KeystoreHelper.java:35)
	at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.run(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:209)
	at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.main(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:165)
Caused by: javax.crypto.BadPaddingException: Given final block not properly padded. Such issues can arise if a bad key is used during decryption.
	at java.base/com.sun.crypto.provider.CipherCore.unpad(CipherCore.java:861)
	at java.base/com.sun.crypto.provider.CipherCore.fillOutputBuffer(CipherCore.java:941)
	at java.base/com.sun.crypto.provider.CipherCore.doFinal(CipherCore.java:734)
	at java.base/com.sun.crypto.provider.PBES2Core.engineDoFinal(PBES2Core.java:310)
	at java.base/javax.crypto.Cipher.doFinal(Cipher.java:2244)
	at java.base/sun.security.pkcs12.PKCS12KeyStore.lambda$engineGetKey$0(PKCS12KeyStore.java:370)
	at java.base/sun.security.pkcs12.PKCS12KeyStore$RetryWithZero.run(PKCS12KeyStore.java:257)
	at java.base/sun.security.pkcs12.PKCS12KeyStore.engineGetKey(PKCS12KeyStore.java:361)
	... 6 more
-------------------------------------------------------

I will also write a mail to Google support now, maybe they can explain what's going wrong.
The tone of their last mails however made me feel that they only take actual JAVA developers seriously. :-/

> Am 28.08.2024 um 09:37 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi Panos,
> 
>> Am 28.08.2024 um 09:17 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Also, in the screenshot you attached, it looks like the arguments
>> "signing-keystore" and "keystore" expect a different value.
>> 
>> The "keystore" looks like it should be the "android_upload.keystore" you
>> created and used to sign the app in LiveCode. I am not sure what is the
>> "signing-keystore" - were you asked to create one?
>> 
>> Same for the "signing-key-alias" - it looks like it is expected to be
>> different for the "alias" (the latter should be "sehenkey")
>> 
>> I had a look in the terminal command I had issued back then, and it did not
>> include these 2 arguments ("signing-key-alias" and "signing-keystore") - it
>> was just:
>> 
>> java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey
>> --output=output.zip  --rsa-aes-encryption
>> --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
>> 
>> So it might be worth giving this a try as well, again with openjdk 20.0.1
> 
> sounds promising! :-)
> Thank you, we will try this.
> 
>> Kind regards,
>> Panos

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From merakosp at gmail.com  Wed Aug 28 06:58:16 2024
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2024 13:58:16 +0300
Subject: Still problems with creating the neccessary file for keystore
 reset (Lengthy mail)
In-Reply-To: <02C1524C-DDFE-495F-9804-BF4227444137@major-k.de>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <F94EB80A-150C-4F77-83DB-12816D167BCF@major-k.de>
 <5e55c3d97ffc70543f380c54a88ae648@livecode.com>
 <C837AA3F-D425-40AF-8714-32368AAF71EC@major-k.de>
 <CED371B6-D59B-4E39-8B73-AE1D05FB2E5B@major-k.de>
 <CB04C1D0-558D-4A36-98FA-9795D299301B@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq-8+-H8ucfzpHxNUmb9zcarjVwRJvhUXPGo+xMckJg5kA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+JfEq_=KRLyCEPt5cy9mAwurEcD5wUxjPrXTamZoNzLjCO+Dg@mail.gmail.com>
 <0FA9E468-37DE-486F-A4E3-144A6EB05FDF@major-k.de>
 <02C1524C-DDFE-495F-9804-BF4227444137@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq9M8dLMjHF53iAtz8Q8pLN3PZD9vzKj2_9LJrhojaSKrA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Klaus,

Hmm this looks like a different error. I also noticed that the new keystore
you created has extension ".jks" and not ".keystore".

Could you try with your old .keystore and .pem file, i.e. something like
this:

java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey
--output=output.zip  --rsa-aes-encryption
--encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem

Kind regards,
Panos
--

On Wed, 28 Aug 2024 at 13:18, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Panos,
>
> I had created a new keystore and PEM file with the shell commands that
> Gooogle support supplied.
> Still no joy...
> ----------------------------------------------------
> % java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload2.jks --alias=upload
> --output=output.zip  --rsa-aes-encryption
> --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate2.pem
> Enter password for store 'android_upload2.jks':
> Enter password for key 'upload':
> Error: Unable to export or encrypt the private key
> java.security.UnrecoverableKeyException: Get Key failed: Given final block
> not properly padded. Such issues can arise if a bad key is used during
> decryption.
>         at
> java.base/sun.security.pkcs12.PKCS12KeyStore.engineGetKey(PKCS12KeyStore.java:454)
>         at
> java.base/sun.security.util.KeyStoreDelegator.engineGetKey(KeyStoreDelegator.java:93)
>         at java.base/java.security.KeyStore.getKey(KeyStore.java:1075)
>         at
> com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.KeystoreHelper.extractPrivateKey(KeystoreHelper.java:63)
>         at
> com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.KeystoreHelper.getPrivateKey(KeystoreHelper.java:35)
>         at
> com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.run(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:209)
>         at
> com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.main(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:165)
> Caused by: javax.crypto.BadPaddingException: Given final block not
> properly padded. Such issues can arise if a bad key is used during
> decryption.
>         at
> java.base/com.sun.crypto.provider.CipherCore.unpad(CipherCore.java:861)
>         at
> java.base/com.sun.crypto.provider.CipherCore.fillOutputBuffer(CipherCore.java:941)
>         at
> java.base/com.sun.crypto.provider.CipherCore.doFinal(CipherCore.java:734)
>         at
> java.base/com.sun.crypto.provider.PBES2Core.engineDoFinal(PBES2Core.java:310)
>         at java.base/javax.crypto.Cipher.doFinal(Cipher.java:2244)
>         at
> java.base/sun.security.pkcs12.PKCS12KeyStore.lambda$engineGetKey$0(PKCS12KeyStore.java:370)
>         at
> java.base/sun.security.pkcs12.PKCS12KeyStore$RetryWithZero.run(PKCS12KeyStore.java:257)
>         at
> java.base/sun.security.pkcs12.PKCS12KeyStore.engineGetKey(PKCS12KeyStore.java:361)
>         ... 6 more
> -------------------------------------------------------
>
> I will also write a mail to Google support now, maybe they can explain
> what's going wrong.
> The tone of their last mails however made me feel that they only take
> actual JAVA developers seriously. :-/
>
> > Am 28.08.2024 um 09:37 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> >
> > Hi Panos,
> >
> >> Am 28.08.2024 um 09:17 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> >>
> >> Also, in the screenshot you attached, it looks like the arguments
> >> "signing-keystore" and "keystore" expect a different value.
> >>
> >> The "keystore" looks like it should be the "android_upload.keystore" you
> >> created and used to sign the app in LiveCode. I am not sure what is the
> >> "signing-keystore" - were you asked to create one?
> >>
> >> Same for the "signing-key-alias" - it looks like it is expected to be
> >> different for the "alias" (the latter should be "sehenkey")
> >>
> >> I had a look in the terminal command I had issued back then, and it did
> not
> >> include these 2 arguments ("signing-key-alias" and "signing-keystore")
> - it
> >> was just:
> >>
> >> java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey
> >> --output=output.zip  --rsa-aes-encryption
> >> --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
> >>
> >> So it might be worth giving this a try as well, again with openjdk
> 20.0.1
> >
> > sounds promising! :-)
> > Thank you, we will try this.
> >
> >> Kind regards,
> >> Panos
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
>
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From klaus at major-k.de  Wed Aug 28 07:05:42 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2024 13:05:42 +0200
Subject: Still problems with creating the neccessary file for keystore
 reset (Lengthy mail)
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq9M8dLMjHF53iAtz8Q8pLN3PZD9vzKj2_9LJrhojaSKrA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9C38EE96-A433-4FF7-A30E-CA87B1B863C6@major-k.de>
 <5A22ED35-5E1C-4EC1-845E-580A819C93C7@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq_g5icaXo=FxC5PEkLqrivPJi=nU13M=uNd6P5zAewdbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <F94EB80A-150C-4F77-83DB-12816D167BCF@major-k.de>
 <5e55c3d97ffc70543f380c54a88ae648@livecode.com>
 <C837AA3F-D425-40AF-8714-32368AAF71EC@major-k.de>
 <CED371B6-D59B-4E39-8B73-AE1D05FB2E5B@major-k.de>
 <CB04C1D0-558D-4A36-98FA-9795D299301B@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq-8+-H8ucfzpHxNUmb9zcarjVwRJvhUXPGo+xMckJg5kA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+JfEq_=KRLyCEPt5cy9mAwurEcD5wUxjPrXTamZoNzLjCO+Dg@mail.gmail.com>
 <0FA9E468-37DE-486F-A4E3-144A6EB05FDF@major-k.de>
 <02C1524C-DDFE-495F-9804-BF4227444137@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq9M8dLMjHF53iAtz8Q8pLN3PZD9vzKj2_9LJrhojaSKrA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3B60CC15-FB52-4DA8-B262-DDF24B5033BF@major-k.de>

Hi Panos,

still no joy...
...
java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey --output=output.zip  --rsa-aes-encryption --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
Enter password for key 'sehenkey':
Error: Unable to export or encrypt the private key
java.security.spec.InvalidKeySpecException: java.security.InvalidKeyException: IOException: DerValue.getOID, not an OID 2
	at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAKeyFactory.engineGeneratePublic(RSAKeyFactory.java:241)
	at java.base/java.security.KeyFactory.generatePublic(KeyFactory.java:351)
	at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.readPublicKey(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:309)
	at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.encryptPrivateKeyWithCkmRsaAesKeyWrapEncryption(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:283)
	at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.run(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:213)
	at com.google.wireless.android.vending.developer.signing.tools.extern.export.ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.main(ExportEncryptedPrivateKeyTool.java:165)
Caused by: java.security.InvalidKeyException: IOException: DerValue.getOID, not an OID 2
	at java.base/sun.security.x509.X509Key.decode(X509Key.java:375)
	at java.base/sun.security.x509.X509Key.decode(X509Key.java:380)
	at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAPublicKeyImpl.<init>(RSAPublicKeyImpl.java:146)
	at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAPublicKeyImpl.newKey(RSAPublicKeyImpl.java:78)
	at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAKeyFactory.generatePublic(RSAKeyFactory.java:324)
	at java.base/sun.security.rsa.RSAKeyFactory.engineGeneratePublic(RSAKeyFactory.java:237)
	... 5 more

> Am 28.08.2024 um 12:58 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hello Klaus,
> 
> Hmm this looks like a different error. I also noticed that the new keystore
> you created has extension ".jks" and not ".keystore".

Yes, for testing I had created a new Keystore and PEM file with these names.

> Could you try with your old .keystore and .pem file, i.e. something like
> this:
> 
> java -jar pepk.jar --keystore=android_upload.keystore --alias=sehenkey
> --output=output.zip  --rsa-aes-encryption
> --encryption-key-path=upload_certificate.pem
> 
> Kind regards,
> Panos

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From brian at milby7.com  Wed Aug 28 08:17:41 2024
From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2024 08:17:41 -0400
Subject: Strange...
In-Reply-To: <bc05254ac263532537f6db42cdf85cfe@souslelogo.com>
References: <bc05254ac263532537f6db42cdf85cfe@souslelogo.com>
Message-ID: <55F5ECFF-B42B-4839-BF63-290BDC3C16CE@milby7.com>

Looks like ~32k is the max value allowed for a coordinate value.

Brian Milby
brian at milby7.com

> On Aug 28, 2024, at 4:22 AM, jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> ("936,474" is within "777,50,1424,10000") -> true
> 
> ("936,474" is within "777,50,1424,100000") -> false
> 
> LC 9.6.9 on Mac OSX 10.15
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Wed Aug 28 11:17:26 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2024 15:17:26 +0000
Subject: Strange...
In-Reply-To: <55F5ECFF-B42B-4839-BF63-290BDC3C16CE@milby7.com>
References: <bc05254ac263532537f6db42cdf85cfe@souslelogo.com>
 <55F5ECFF-B42B-4839-BF63-290BDC3C16CE@milby7.com>
Message-ID: <84FD4978-A4C6-4218-8D45-49C863D1E11C@iotecdigital.com>

Easy enough to test. 

put ("936,474" is within "777,50,1424,32767”) —> true
put ("936,474" is within "777,50,1424,32768”) —> false

Bob S


> On Aug 28, 2024, at 5:17 AM, Brian Milby via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Looks like ~32k is the max value allowed for a coordinate value.
> 
> Brian Milby
> brian at milby7.com
> 
>> On Aug 28, 2024, at 4:22 AM, jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> ("936,474" is within "777,50,1424,10000") -> true
>> 
>> ("936,474" is within "777,50,1424,100000") -> false
>> 
>> LC 9.6.9 on Mac OSX 10.15
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From brian at milby7.com  Wed Aug 28 13:07:10 2024
From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2024 13:07:10 -0400
Subject: Strange...
In-Reply-To: <84FD4978-A4C6-4218-8D45-49C863D1E11C@iotecdigital.com>
References: <84FD4978-A4C6-4218-8D45-49C863D1E11C@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <C93DD07F-79BE-4044-A23D-777314CAC4D9@milby7.com>

Exactly (that is essentially what I did)

The actual full rect is:
(-32768,-32768,32767,32767)

Brian Milby
brian at milby7.com

> On Aug 28, 2024, at 11:19 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Easy enough to test.
> 
> put ("936,474" is within "777,50,1424,32767”) —> true
> put ("936,474" is within "777,50,1424,32768”) —> false
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Aug 28, 2024, at 5:17 AM, Brian Milby via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Looks like ~32k is the max value allowed for a coordinate value.
>> 
>> Brian Milby
>> brian at milby7.com
>> 
>>>> On Aug 28, 2024, at 4:22 AM, jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ("936,474" is within "777,50,1424,10000") -> true
>>> 
>>> ("936,474" is within "777,50,1424,100000") -> false
>>> 
>>> LC 9.6.9 on Mac OSX 10.15
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From klaus at major-k.de  Wed Aug 28 13:52:02 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2024 19:52:02 +0200
Subject: Strange...
In-Reply-To: <C93DD07F-79BE-4044-A23D-777314CAC4D9@milby7.com>
References: <84FD4978-A4C6-4218-8D45-49C863D1E11C@iotecdigital.com>
 <C93DD07F-79BE-4044-A23D-777314CAC4D9@milby7.com>
Message-ID: <DA94542E-4296-42D8-A551-CCD8DCFE43CF@major-k.de>



> Am 28.08.2024 um 19:07 schrieb Brian Milby via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Exactly (that is essentially what I did)
> 
> The actual full rect is:
> (-32768,-32768,32767,32767)

should suffice for a simple addressbook app. :-)

> Brian Milby
> brian at milby7.com
> 
>> On Aug 28, 2024, at 11:19 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> Easy enough to test.
>> put ("936,474" is within "777,50,1424,32767”) —> true
>> put ("936,474" is within "777,50,1424,32768”) —> false
>> Bob S
>>> On Aug 28, 2024, at 5:17 AM, Brian Milby via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> Looks like ~32k is the max value allowed for a coordinate value.
>>> Brian Milby
>>> brian at milby7.com
>>> 
>>>>> On Aug 28, 2024, at 4:22 AM, jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> ("936,474" is within "777,50,1424,10000") -> true
>>>> ("936,474" is within "777,50,1424,100000") -> false
>>>> LC 9.6.9 on Mac OSX 10.15

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From jbv at souslelogo.com  Wed Aug 28 14:48:38 2024
From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2024 14:48:38 -0400
Subject: Strange...
In-Reply-To: <DA94542E-4296-42D8-A551-CCD8DCFE43CF@major-k.de>
References: <84FD4978-A4C6-4218-8D45-49C863D1E11C@iotecdigital.com>
 <C93DD07F-79BE-4044-A23D-777314CAC4D9@milby7.com>
 <DA94542E-4296-42D8-A551-CCD8DCFE43CF@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <961a3030883a163bc46b8526bcc5f079@souslelogo.com>

Le 2024-08-28 13:52, Klaus major-k via use-livecode a crit :
> 
> should suffice for a simple addressbook app. :-)
> 

yep, but not for processing any kind of raw data...


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Wed Aug 28 18:06:37 2024
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2024 22:06:37 +0000
Subject: Strange...
In-Reply-To: <961a3030883a163bc46b8526bcc5f079@souslelogo.com>
References: <84FD4978-A4C6-4218-8D45-49C863D1E11C@iotecdigital.com>
 <C93DD07F-79BE-4044-A23D-777314CAC4D9@milby7.com>
 <DA94542E-4296-42D8-A551-CCD8DCFE43CF@major-k.de>
 <961a3030883a163bc46b8526bcc5f079@souslelogo.com>
Message-ID: <812482E3-12CB-45AB-850B-D60E51490186@iotecdigital.com>

put "777,50,1424,10000" into tCoords
put item 1 of tCoords > -32768 AND \
item 2 of tCoords > -32768 AND \
item 3 of tCoords < 32767 AND \
item 4 of tCoords < 32767 AND \
"936,474" is within tCoords --> true

put "777,50,1424,100000" into tCoords
put item 1 of tCoords > -32768 AND \
item 2 of tCoords > -32768 AND \
item 3 of tCoords < 32767 AND \
item 4 of tCoords < 32767 AND \
"936,474" is within tCoords --> false

Bob S


> On Aug 28, 2024, at 11:48 AM, jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Le 2024-08-28 13:52, Klaus major-k via use-livecode a écrit :
>> should suffice for a simple addressbook app. :-)
> 
> yep, but not for processing any kind of raw data...
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Aug 29 05:15:42 2024
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2024 11:15:42 +0200
Subject: Android API 34 and Android keystore:  SOLVED
Message-ID: <E50A1ADA-1672-4A0B-91FC-7F35E464D9E8@major-k.de>

Hi friends,

I am glad to tell you that we could finally solve this problem.
Right in time for the deadline on saturday, phew...

We had to download and use an "encryption_public_key.pem"
file from google in the JAVA command for the last param!
Sometimes one does not see the forest for the trees...

I want to thank the community and especially Panos, Mark W. 
and Matthias Rebbe for their wonderful and really helpful assistance.
I love you guys! :-)

But Googles support defintitively sucks and had caused more 
irritation than giving helpful hints.

Again thanks to all, have a wonderful weekend!


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Aug 29 12:19:46 2024
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2024 11:19:46 -0500
Subject: Android API 34 and Android keystore:  SOLVED
In-Reply-To: <E50A1ADA-1672-4A0B-91FC-7F35E464D9E8@major-k.de>
References: <E50A1ADA-1672-4A0B-91FC-7F35E464D9E8@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <1919eef90d0.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

Whew! The team is the best. And Matthias is always kind and helpful.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On August 29, 2024 4:18:06 AM Klaus major-k via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi friends,
>
> I am glad to tell you that we could finally solve this problem.
> Right in time for the deadline on saturday, phew...
>
> We had to download and use an "encryption_public_key.pem"
> file from google in the JAVA command for the last param!
> Sometimes one does not see the forest for the trees...
>
> I want to thank the community and especially Panos, Mark W.
> and Matthias Rebbe for their wonderful and really helpful assistance.
> I love you guys! :-)
>
> But Googles support defintitively sucks and had caused more
> irritation than giving helpful hints.
>
> Again thanks to all, have a wonderful weekend!
>
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Thu Aug 29 12:44:56 2024
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2024 12:44:56 -0400
Subject: Android API 34 and Android keystore:  SOLVED
In-Reply-To: <1919eef90d0.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <E50A1ADA-1672-4A0B-91FC-7F35E464D9E8@major-k.de>
 <1919eef90d0.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <000e01dafa32$cb527ae0$61f770a0$@net>

+1

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
Of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2024 12:20 PM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: J. Landman Gay
Subject: Re: Android API 34 and Android keystore: SOLVED

Whew! The team is the best. And Matthias is always kind and helpful.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software |
http://www.hyperactivesw.com On August 29, 2024 4:18:06 AM Klaus major-k via
use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi friends,
>
> I am glad to tell you that we could finally solve this problem.
> Right in time for the deadline on saturday, phew...
>
> We had to download and use an "encryption_public_key.pem"
> file from google in the JAVA command for the last param!
> Sometimes one does not see the forest for the trees...
>
> I want to thank the community and especially Panos, Mark W.
> and Matthias Rebbe for their wonderful and really helpful assistance.
> I love you guys! :-)
>
> But Googles support defintitively sucks and had caused more irritation 
> than giving helpful hints.
>
> Again thanks to all, have a wonderful weekend!
>
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode