From paul at researchware.com Fri Sep 1 12:44:25 2023 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 12:44:25 -0400 Subject: is strictly a name Message-ID: <76a6ebf7-7c63-c8ed-6c47-1da23d6170f5@researchware.com> I may just be experiencing a brain fart, but I have read the release notes several times, and I don't understand the purpose of the new: is strictly a name operator? Can someone explain its purpose in really basic terms or examples? From tom at makeshyft.com Fri Sep 1 13:20:04 2023 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 13:20:04 -0400 Subject: UUID v7 Message-ID: Hi Folks, Sharing this because its useful, and also, more eyeballs on the code makes sense. I implemented this with the help of chatGPT. This is a handler that can generate v7 UUIDs. v7 UUIDs work better in databases, because they are not so random, improving performance. And they are sequential. They also match the format of uuid v4 Also the specs for v7 have not yet been finalized. Here it is: function CreateUUID pVersion // This Handler returns a if pVersion is not 7 then //Return V4 Random UUID return uuid("random") else if pVersion = 7 then // return V7 Random yet sequenced UUID local tUnixTsMs, tVer, tRandA, tTVar, tRandB, tTheID -- Get the current timestamp in milliseconds put baseConvert(the milliseconds, 10, 16) into tUnixTsMs put format("%012s", tUnixTsMs) into tUnixTsMs // Set the version field to 0b0111 (7) put "7" into tVer // Generate 12 bits of pseudo-random data for RAND A put random(4095) into tRandA -- 4095 is the maximum value for 12 bits put baseConvert(tRandA, 10, 16) into tRandA put format("%03s", tRandA) into tRandA // Set the variant field to 0b10 put "8" into tTVar -- 0b10 in hexadecimal // Generate 62 bits of pseudo-random data for RAND B repeat 16 times put baseConvert(random(15), 10, 16) after tRandB -- generate one hex digit at a time end repeat // Combine all the bits to form the UUID put tUnixTsMs & tVer & tRandA & tTVar & tRandB into tTheID // Insert dashes to form the UUID in 8-4-4-4-12 format put char 1 to 8 of tTheID & "-" & char 9 to 12 of tTheID & "-" & char 13 to 16 of tTheID & "-" & char 17 to 20 of tTheID & "-" & char 21 to 32 of tTheID into tTheID return tTheID end if end CreateUUID tVersion Cheers, Tom From mark at livecode.com Fri Sep 1 13:23:37 2023 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2023 18:23:37 +0100 Subject: is strictly a name In-Reply-To: <76a6ebf7-7c63-c8ed-6c47-1da23d6170f5@researchware.com> References: <76a6ebf7-7c63-c8ed-6c47-1da23d6170f5@researchware.com> Message-ID: <2336faa71ba8ce663a76639acf421766@livecode.com> On 2023-09-01 17:44, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > I may just be experiencing a brain fart, but I have read the release > notes several times, and I don't understand the purpose of the new: > > is strictly a name > > operator? Can someone explain its purpose in really basic terms or > examples? Its purposes is so that it is possible to tell when a value is a 'name' rather than a 'string' when the distinction is important. The cases where this is true are few and far between - indeed, the use-case it was added for was so that the exact runtime type of constant values generated when parsing script (e.g. from constant initializers) is preserved. There are two kinds of strings internally - strings and names. All names are strings, but not all strings are names. The difference is that there is only ever one instance of a name with a given string in memory - e.g. if two variables hold a name whose string is "foo", then they will hold the same pointer. As to what names are - they are an optimization for cases where the engine will often do comparisons between them. Names are implemented in a global hash table in such a way that caseless and case-sensitive comparisons are constant time (when both values being compared are names). The keys of an array are names - which means the engine never has to compare the actual characters of a key in an array as it does a lookup. Literals in scripts are stored as names - so if you have 100 instances of the string constant "foobar" throughout all your scripts as literals - there will only actually be one instance of "foobar" Similarly, internally, object names, handler names and variable names are all stored as, well, names (again - because they are commonly compared against each other). Some examples of where you can observe a name are: put "foo" is strictly a name => true put ("foo" & empty) is strictly a name => false repeat for each key tFoo in { "foo": true } put tFoo is a strictly a name => true end repeat There might be a few other places where you could see a name rather than a string, but as mentioned above - its unlikely that 99.9% of people would ever need to worry about it :) Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Build Amazing Things From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri Sep 1 13:36:29 2023 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 13:36:29 -0400 Subject: UUID v7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: why would reducing randomness be desirable in an internet-facing app? isn't the whole point to * ensure uniqueness across the entire space * make it nearly impossible to guess an ID? i would think that once you make the id's sequential, you have eliminated the ability to stop an authorized user from randomly marching through your data. On Fri, Sep 1, 2023 at 1:21 PM Tom Glod via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi Folks, > > Sharing this because its useful, and also, more eyeballs on the code makes > sense. > I implemented this with the help of chatGPT. > > This is a handler that can generate v7 UUIDs. > v7 UUIDs work better in databases, because they are not so random, > improving performance. > And they are sequential. > They also match the format of uuid v4 > Also the specs for v7 have not yet been finalized. > > Here it is: > > function CreateUUID pVersion > // This Handler returns a > if pVersion is not 7 then > //Return V4 Random UUID > return uuid("random") > > else if pVersion = 7 then > // return V7 Random yet sequenced UUID > > local tUnixTsMs, tVer, tRandA, tTVar, tRandB, tTheID > -- Get the current timestamp in milliseconds > > put baseConvert(the milliseconds, 10, 16) into tUnixTsMs > put format("%012s", tUnixTsMs) into tUnixTsMs > > // Set the version field to 0b0111 (7) > put "7" into tVer > > // Generate 12 bits of pseudo-random data for RAND A > put random(4095) into tRandA -- 4095 is the maximum value for 12 bits > put baseConvert(tRandA, 10, 16) into tRandA > put format("%03s", tRandA) into tRandA > > // Set the variant field to 0b10 > put "8" into tTVar -- 0b10 in hexadecimal > > // Generate 62 bits of pseudo-random data for RAND B > repeat 16 times > put baseConvert(random(15), 10, 16) after tRandB -- generate one > hex digit at a time > end repeat > > // Combine all the bits to form the UUID > put tUnixTsMs & tVer & tRandA & tTVar & tRandB into tTheID > > // Insert dashes to form the UUID in 8-4-4-4-12 format > put char 1 to 8 of tTheID & "-" & char 9 to 12 of tTheID & "-" & char > 13 to 16 of tTheID & "-" & char 17 to 20 of tTheID & "-" & char 21 to 32 of > tTheID into tTheID > > return tTheID > end if > end CreateUUID tVersion > > Cheers, > > Tom > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From tom at makeshyft.com Fri Sep 1 13:54:51 2023 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 13:54:51 -0400 Subject: UUID v7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Mike, Sometimes you just don't need uniqueness across all bits, and if you do, use v4. In my example, the ID is used for clipboard clips, but now I don't have to sort them based on their timestamp. Also this improves database performance as the btree is better organized. There are a few videos and lots of papers on the topic. On Fri, Sep 1, 2023 at 1:38 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > why would reducing randomness be desirable in an internet-facing app? isn't > the whole point to > * ensure uniqueness across the entire space > * make it nearly impossible to guess an ID? > i would think that once you make the id's sequential, you have eliminated > the ability to stop an authorized user from randomly marching through your > data. > > On Fri, Sep 1, 2023 at 1:21 PM Tom Glod via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > Hi Folks, > > > > Sharing this because its useful, and also, more eyeballs on the code > makes > > sense. > > I implemented this with the help of chatGPT. > > > > This is a handler that can generate v7 UUIDs. > > v7 UUIDs work better in databases, because they are not so random, > > improving performance. > > And they are sequential. > > They also match the format of uuid v4 > > Also the specs for v7 have not yet been finalized. > > > > Here it is: > > > > function CreateUUID pVersion > > // This Handler returns a > > if pVersion is not 7 then > > //Return V4 Random UUID > > return uuid("random") > > > > else if pVersion = 7 then > > // return V7 Random yet sequenced UUID > > > > local tUnixTsMs, tVer, tRandA, tTVar, tRandB, tTheID > > -- Get the current timestamp in milliseconds > > > > put baseConvert(the milliseconds, 10, 16) into tUnixTsMs > > put format("%012s", tUnixTsMs) into tUnixTsMs > > > > // Set the version field to 0b0111 (7) > > put "7" into tVer > > > > // Generate 12 bits of pseudo-random data for RAND A > > put random(4095) into tRandA -- 4095 is the maximum value for 12 > bits > > put baseConvert(tRandA, 10, 16) into tRandA > > put format("%03s", tRandA) into tRandA > > > > // Set the variant field to 0b10 > > put "8" into tTVar -- 0b10 in hexadecimal > > > > // Generate 62 bits of pseudo-random data for RAND B > > repeat 16 times > > put baseConvert(random(15), 10, 16) after tRandB -- generate one > > hex digit at a time > > end repeat > > > > // Combine all the bits to form the UUID > > put tUnixTsMs & tVer & tRandA & tTVar & tRandB into tTheID > > > > // Insert dashes to form the UUID in 8-4-4-4-12 format > > put char 1 to 8 of tTheID & "-" & char 9 to 12 of tTheID & "-" & > char > > 13 to 16 of tTheID & "-" & char 17 to 20 of tTheID & "-" & char 21 to 32 > of > > tTheID into tTheID > > > > return tTheID > > end if > > end CreateUUID tVersion > > > > Cheers, > > > > Tom > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri Sep 1 15:00:59 2023 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 15:00:59 -0400 Subject: UUID v7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: it's an interesting topic, because in one of the db communities i'm involved with, they're actually going the other way, increasing entropy. On Fri, Sep 1, 2023 at 1:56 PM Tom Glod via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi Mike, > > Sometimes you just don't need uniqueness across all bits, and if you do, > use v4. > In my example, the ID is used for clipboard clips, but now I don't have to > sort them based on their timestamp. > Also this improves database performance as the btree is better organized. > There are a few videos and lots of papers on the topic. > > > On Fri, Sep 1, 2023 at 1:38 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > why would reducing randomness be desirable in an internet-facing app? > isn't > > the whole point to > > * ensure uniqueness across the entire space > > * make it nearly impossible to guess an ID? > > i would think that once you make the id's sequential, you have eliminated > > the ability to stop an authorized user from randomly marching through > your > > data. > > > > On Fri, Sep 1, 2023 at 1:21 PM Tom Glod via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > > Hi Folks, > > > > > > Sharing this because its useful, and also, more eyeballs on the code > > makes > > > sense. > > > I implemented this with the help of chatGPT. > > > > > > This is a handler that can generate v7 UUIDs. > > > v7 UUIDs work better in databases, because they are not so random, > > > improving performance. > > > And they are sequential. > > > They also match the format of uuid v4 > > > Also the specs for v7 have not yet been finalized. > > > > > > Here it is: > > > > > > function CreateUUID pVersion > > > // This Handler returns a > > > if pVersion is not 7 then > > > //Return V4 Random UUID > > > return uuid("random") > > > > > > else if pVersion = 7 then > > > // return V7 Random yet sequenced UUID > > > > > > local tUnixTsMs, tVer, tRandA, tTVar, tRandB, tTheID > > > -- Get the current timestamp in milliseconds > > > > > > put baseConvert(the milliseconds, 10, 16) into tUnixTsMs > > > put format("%012s", tUnixTsMs) into tUnixTsMs > > > > > > // Set the version field to 0b0111 (7) > > > put "7" into tVer > > > > > > // Generate 12 bits of pseudo-random data for RAND A > > > put random(4095) into tRandA -- 4095 is the maximum value for 12 > > bits > > > put baseConvert(tRandA, 10, 16) into tRandA > > > put format("%03s", tRandA) into tRandA > > > > > > // Set the variant field to 0b10 > > > put "8" into tTVar -- 0b10 in hexadecimal > > > > > > // Generate 62 bits of pseudo-random data for RAND B > > > repeat 16 times > > > put baseConvert(random(15), 10, 16) after tRandB -- generate > one > > > hex digit at a time > > > end repeat > > > > > > // Combine all the bits to form the UUID > > > put tUnixTsMs & tVer & tRandA & tTVar & tRandB into tTheID > > > > > > // Insert dashes to form the UUID in 8-4-4-4-12 format > > > put char 1 to 8 of tTheID & "-" & char 9 to 12 of tTheID & "-" & > > char > > > 13 to 16 of tTheID & "-" & char 17 to 20 of tTheID & "-" & char 21 to > 32 > > of > > > tTheID into tTheID > > > > > > return tTheID > > > end if > > > end CreateUUID tVersion > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Tom > > > _______________________________________________ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 1 15:22:17 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 19:22:17 +0000 Subject: is strictly a name In-Reply-To: <2336faa71ba8ce663a76639acf421766@livecode.com> References: <76a6ebf7-7c63-c8ed-6c47-1da23d6170f5@researchware.com> <2336faa71ba8ce663a76639acf421766@livecode.com> Message-ID: <677EF40F-2C3D-4A7C-B97C-C14B52592904@iotecdigital.com> I put “Bob” is strictly my name in the message box and got false. But then i tried “Bob” is my name and ALSO got false! Is that a bug?? 🤭 Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 1, 2023, at 10:24, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > > On 2023-09-01 17:44, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: >> I may just be experiencing a brain fart, but I have read the release notes several times, and I don't understand the purpose of the new: >> is strictly a name >> operator? Can someone explain its purpose in really basic terms or examples? > > Its purposes is so that it is possible to tell when a value is a 'name' rather than a 'string' when the distinction is important. The cases where this is true are few and far between - indeed, the use-case it was added for was so that the exact runtime type of constant values generated when parsing script (e.g. from constant initializers) is preserved. > > There are two kinds of strings internally - strings and names. All names are strings, but not all strings are names. > > The difference is that there is only ever one instance of a name with a given string in memory - e.g. if two variables hold a name whose string is "foo", then they will hold the same pointer. > > As to what names are - they are an optimization for cases where the engine will often do comparisons between them. > > Names are implemented in a global hash table in such a way that caseless and case-sensitive comparisons are constant time (when both values being compared are names). > > The keys of an array are names - which means the engine never has to compare the actual characters of a key in an array as it does a lookup. > > Literals in scripts are stored as names - so if you have 100 instances of the string constant "foobar" throughout all your scripts as literals - there will only actually be one instance of "foobar" > > Similarly, internally, object names, handler names and variable names are all stored as, well, names (again - because they are commonly compared against each other). > > Some examples of where you can observe a name are: > > put "foo" is strictly a name => true > > put ("foo" & empty) is strictly a name => false > > repeat for each key tFoo in { "foo": true } > put tFoo is a strictly a name => true > end repeat > > There might be a few other places where you could see a name rather than a string, but as mentioned above - its unlikely that 99.9% of people would ever need to worry about it :) > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > > -- > Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Build Amazing Things > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Fri Sep 1 15:29:10 2023 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 15:29:10 -0400 Subject: is strictly a name In-Reply-To: <2336faa71ba8ce663a76639acf421766@livecode.com> References: <76a6ebf7-7c63-c8ed-6c47-1da23d6170f5@researchware.com> <2336faa71ba8ce663a76639acf421766@livecode.com> Message-ID: <8775c016-45e3-99e6-befd-5f733a6aca20@researchware.com> Thank you Mark. I followed that explanation and now understand that - for all of my foreseeable applications - I can ignore 'is strictly a name' :-) Paul On 9/1/2023 1:23 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > On 2023-09-01 17:44, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: >> I may just be experiencing a brain fart, but I have read the release >> notes several times, and I don't understand the purpose of the new: >> >> is strictly a name >> >> operator? Can someone explain its purpose in really basic terms or >> examples? > > Its purposes is so that it is possible to tell when a value is a > 'name' rather than a 'string' when the distinction is important. The > cases where this is true are few and far between - indeed, the > use-case it was added for was so that the exact runtime type of > constant values generated when parsing script (e.g. from constant > initializers) is preserved. > > There are two kinds of strings internally - strings and names. All > names are strings, but not all strings are names. > > The difference is that there is only ever one instance of a name with > a given string in memory - e.g. if two variables hold a name whose > string is "foo", then they will hold the same pointer. > > As to what names are - they are an optimization for cases where the > engine will often do comparisons between them. > > Names are implemented in a global hash table in such a way that > caseless and case-sensitive comparisons are constant time (when both > values being compared are names). > > The keys of an array are names - which means the engine never has to > compare the actual characters of a key in an array as it does a lookup. > > Literals in scripts are stored as names - so if you have 100 instances > of the string constant "foobar" throughout all your scripts as > literals - there will only actually be one instance of "foobar" > > Similarly, internally, object names, handler names and variable names > are all stored as, well, names (again - because they are commonly > compared against each other). > > Some examples of where you can observe a name are: > >    put "foo" is strictly a name => true > >    put ("foo" & empty) is strictly a name => false > >    repeat for each key tFoo in { "foo": true } >      put tFoo is a strictly a name => true >    end repeat > > There might be a few other places where you could see a name rather > than a string, but as mentioned above - its unlikely that 99.9% of > people would ever need to worry about it :) > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > From dfe4 at cornell.edu Fri Sep 1 15:32:43 2023 From: dfe4 at cornell.edu (David Epstein) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 15:32:43 -0400 Subject: Pasting text and images together? Message-ID: To clarify my original question: I'm not expecting the built-in paste command to handle this task; I'm wondering if I can script my own paste command to handle it. Richmond, I can write a script to "paste" an image by itself (by creating an image and setting its text to clipboardData["image"]). But is there some way I can access both the text and the image that are on the clipboard after I have copied a combination of those from, e.g., a web browser? (Pasting to Apple Notes confirms that the clipboard contains both text and image.) From tom at makeshyft.com Fri Sep 1 15:53:22 2023 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 15:53:22 -0400 Subject: UUID v7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Oh yeah,that makes sense usually... just a different use case that is all. On Fri, Sep 1, 2023 at 3:02 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > it's an interesting topic, because in one of the db communities i'm > involved with, they're actually going the other way, increasing entropy. > > On Fri, Sep 1, 2023 at 1:56 PM Tom Glod via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > Hi Mike, > > > > Sometimes you just don't need uniqueness across all bits, and if you do, > > use v4. > > In my example, the ID is used for clipboard clips, but now I don't have > to > > sort them based on their timestamp. > > Also this improves database performance as the btree is better organized. > > There are a few videos and lots of papers on the topic. > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 1, 2023 at 1:38 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > > why would reducing randomness be desirable in an internet-facing app? > > isn't > > > the whole point to > > > * ensure uniqueness across the entire space > > > * make it nearly impossible to guess an ID? > > > i would think that once you make the id's sequential, you have > eliminated > > > the ability to stop an authorized user from randomly marching through > > your > > > data. > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 1, 2023 at 1:21 PM Tom Glod via use-livecode < > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Folks, > > > > > > > > Sharing this because its useful, and also, more eyeballs on the code > > > makes > > > > sense. > > > > I implemented this with the help of chatGPT. > > > > > > > > This is a handler that can generate v7 UUIDs. > > > > v7 UUIDs work better in databases, because they are not so random, > > > > improving performance. > > > > And they are sequential. > > > > They also match the format of uuid v4 > > > > Also the specs for v7 have not yet been finalized. > > > > > > > > Here it is: > > > > > > > > function CreateUUID pVersion > > > > // This Handler returns a > > > > if pVersion is not 7 then > > > > //Return V4 Random UUID > > > > return uuid("random") > > > > > > > > else if pVersion = 7 then > > > > // return V7 Random yet sequenced UUID > > > > > > > > local tUnixTsMs, tVer, tRandA, tTVar, tRandB, tTheID > > > > -- Get the current timestamp in milliseconds > > > > > > > > put baseConvert(the milliseconds, 10, 16) into tUnixTsMs > > > > put format("%012s", tUnixTsMs) into tUnixTsMs > > > > > > > > // Set the version field to 0b0111 (7) > > > > put "7" into tVer > > > > > > > > // Generate 12 bits of pseudo-random data for RAND A > > > > put random(4095) into tRandA -- 4095 is the maximum value for > 12 > > > bits > > > > put baseConvert(tRandA, 10, 16) into tRandA > > > > put format("%03s", tRandA) into tRandA > > > > > > > > // Set the variant field to 0b10 > > > > put "8" into tTVar -- 0b10 in hexadecimal > > > > > > > > // Generate 62 bits of pseudo-random data for RAND B > > > > repeat 16 times > > > > put baseConvert(random(15), 10, 16) after tRandB -- generate > > one > > > > hex digit at a time > > > > end repeat > > > > > > > > // Combine all the bits to form the UUID > > > > put tUnixTsMs & tVer & tRandA & tTVar & tRandB into tTheID > > > > > > > > // Insert dashes to form the UUID in 8-4-4-4-12 format > > > > put char 1 to 8 of tTheID & "-" & char 9 to 12 of tTheID & "-" > & > > > char > > > > 13 to 16 of tTheID & "-" & char 17 to 20 of tTheID & "-" & char 21 to > > 32 > > > of > > > > tTheID into tTheID > > > > > > > > return tTheID > > > > end if > > > > end CreateUUID tVersion > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > Tom > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > > subscription preferences: > > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > > and did a little diving. > > > And God said, "This is good." > > > _______________________________________________ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From gcanyon at gmail.com Fri Sep 1 17:38:58 2023 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 17:38:58 -0400 Subject: Sort bug In-Reply-To: <9DE07A74-F443-4C9F-AA16-66A2B17AC606@milby7.com> References: <9DE07A74-F443-4C9F-AA16-66A2B17AC606@milby7.com> Message-ID: With 9.6.9 on a mac and a field where the second and third items of each line are numbers: sort lines of fld 1 numeric by item 2 of each + item 3 of each -- works sort lines of fld 1 numeric by value(item 2 of each + item 3 of each) -- works sort lines of fld 1 numeric by merge("[[item 2 of each + item 3 of each]]") -- works and on mouseUp sort lines of fld 1 numeric by sortVal(each) end mouseUp function sortVal S return item 2 of S + item 3 of S end sortVal works. I haven't checked, but I'd guess that performance degrades with each further method. They all work if one or both of the items are empty. If there is an entry that has a non-numeric value in item 2 or 3: sort lines of fld 1 numeric by item 2 of each + item 3 of each -- partially sorts and throws an error sort lines of fld 1 numeric by value(item 2 of each + item 3 of each) -- partially sorts and throws an error sort lines of fld 1 numeric by merge("[[item 2 of each + item 3 of each]]") -- surprisingly, works -- error lines are seemingly sorted with a value of negative infinity? And the function sort also sorts based on a negative infinity value for errors. I'm not sure I'd consider that a bug. And this works: sort lines of fld 1 numeric by merge("") And of course sorting by this function does the same thing: function sortVal S if item 2 of S is not a number or item 3 of S is not a number then return 0 return item 2 of S + item 3 of S end sortVal On Thu, Aug 31, 2023 at 9:30 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I just tried this in 10dp5 and the sort didn’t completely bail (it put the > error value first) but it did error when including inline (as in the bug > report). If I add a try, then it will stop on the throw. Not sure how > much this would slow down execution though. > > function myVal pStr > local tResult > try > put item 1 of pStr + item 2 of pStr into tResult > catch errorVariable > throw "Bad data" > end try > return tResult > end myVal > > Brian Milby > brian at milby7.com > > > On Aug 31, 2023, at 7:53 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > >  > >> On 01/09/2023 00:37, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > >> The function is adding the value of two chunks together and returning > the result. How does that even compute? Unless the + operator is doing > something totally different here… > > > > The code said: > > > >> sort lines tVariable by myVal(each) > >> > >> where the function is for example > >> > >> function myVal pStr > >> return item 1 of pStr + item 2 of pStr > >> end myval > > since it's sorting the lines of the container, it calls the custom > function with each line in turn. The function simply adds together the > first two items from the passed-in line, and returns that. The returned > value is associated with the corresponding line - and then the container is > sorted by those associated values. > > > > This works fine if the input variable is well formatted (i.e. first and > second items of each line are numeric), but fails to give an error when > something goes wrong - such as a non-numeric item. > > > > (and, yes - the dictionary description is misleading, if not simply > incorrect. However, the "Tip" at the end describes the use of ustom > functions). > > > > Alex. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From paul at researchware.com Fri Sep 1 18:02:23 2023 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 18:02:23 -0400 Subject: Pasting text and images together? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <37b7d5c0-03a3-b1ae-1013-d734e715b302@researchware.com> If the App copying the mixed content places it on the clipboard as text and an image vs some mixed type, you may be able to do this Your have the on pasteKey message to trap CONTROL/COMMAND-V and if you have a "Paste" menu item, you control the script for that. the ClipboardData, the fullClipBoardData, and the rawClipboardData arrays (see Dictionary entries for each of these) give you access to the different elements on the clipboard. I epect the rawClipboardData will not really apply to this goal, but whether the ClipboardData or fullClipboardData would be better, I'm not sure Essential for either the pasteKey or menu paste action, you scrip wants to put the ClipboardData["text"] into tMyText -- the text copied to the clipboard put the ClipboardData["image"] into tMyImageData -- the text property of an image object As a test, you may need to write a small test handler on pastekey   local tClipArray, tFullClipArray   put the ClipBoardData into tClipArray   put the fullClipboardData into tFullClipArray   breakpoint end pasteKey Copy mixed data to your clipboard from your 3rd party app, switch to a test stack with the script above (not tested), and press the paste keys for your OS. The IDE debugger should appear and let you look at the arrays tClipArray and tFullClipArray to see how the data was translated from your 3rd party app. On 9/1/2023 3:32 PM, David Epstein via use-livecode wrote: > To clarify my original question: > > I'm not expecting the built-in paste command to handle this task; I'm > wondering if I can script my own paste command to handle it. > > Richmond, I can write a script to "paste" an image by itself (by creating > an image and setting its text to clipboardData["image"]). > > But is there some way I can access both the text and the image that are on > the clipboard after I have copied a combination of those from, e.g., a web > browser? (Pasting to Apple Notes confirms that the clipboard contains both > text and image.) > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Sep 1 18:31:09 2023 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 17:31:09 -0500 Subject: Pasting text and images together? In-Reply-To: <37b7d5c0-03a3-b1ae-1013-d734e715b302@researchware.com> References: <37b7d5c0-03a3-b1ae-1013-d734e715b302@researchware.com> Message-ID: On 9/1/23 5:02 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > If the App copying the mixed content places it on the clipboard as text and an image vs some > mixed type, you may be able to do this > > Your have the on pasteKey message to trap CONTROL/COMMAND-V and if you have a "Paste" menu > item, you control the script for that. Note that LC traps the pastekey message, so you need to suspend the IDE to test it. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Sep 1 18:35:49 2023 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 17:35:49 -0500 Subject: Shutdown on Android In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00cfaadd-a883-5564-a7e1-6d0dafff699f@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/31/23 5:36 PM, Dan Friedman via use-livecode wrote: > Does the shutdown message (or shutdownRequest message) work on Android? I am playing a song using androidStartAudioPlayingInBackground. However, if the app is closed (swiping up to exit it), then the audio continues to play. So, I added an androidStopAudioPlayingInBackground command in the shutdown message to stop playing the audio. But doesn’t seem to work – audio continues to play. > > Any thoughts? Mark Smith reminded me that the suspend and resume messages are now supported on mobile platforms. That might do it. My old brain forgot about that. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From mark at livecode.com Sat Sep 2 05:30:03 2023 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2023 10:30:03 +0100 Subject: Pasting text and images together? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You could poke around the raw clipboard data - this is platform specific (in terms of the keys) but gives a complete reflection of the system clipboard: lock clipboard put the keys of the rawClipboardData unlock clipboard This will dump what raw data types are present - then you can fetch using ‘the rawClipboardData[key]’. Note that you need to lock and unlock the clipboard around ‘raw’ access. Warmest regards, Mark. Sent from my iPhone > On 1 Sep 2023, at 20:33, David Epstein via use-livecode wrote: > > To clarify my original question: > > I'm not expecting the built-in paste command to handle this task; I'm > wondering if I can script my own paste command to handle it. > > Richmond, I can write a script to "paste" an image by itself (by creating > an image and setting its text to clipboardData["image"]). > > But is there some way I can access both the text and the image that are on > the clipboard after I have copied a combination of those from, e.g., a web > browser? (Pasting to Apple Notes confirms that the clipboard contains both > text and image.) > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dfe4 at cornell.edu Sat Sep 2 10:36:48 2023 From: dfe4 at cornell.edu (David Epstein) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2023 10:36:48 -0400 Subject: Pasting text and images together? Message-ID: Many thanks to Paul Dupuis and Mark Waddingham. The script below tries to test their suggestions. Using 10.0.0 dp5 on an Intel Mac, and watching execution after the breakpoint, I get errors at each "try" in the script. So it does not seem that I can write the fullClipboardData or rawClipboardData to an array variable; and it does not seem that I can access any element of the rawClipboardData array. Further advice is welcome. Best wishes, David Epstein *on* a2 *lock* clipboard *put* the keys of the clipboardData into myK1 *put* the keys of the fullClipboardData into myK2 *put* the keys of the rawClipboardData into myK3 *breakpoint* *try* *put* the fullClipboardData into ta2 *catch* myError *put* myError into e2 *end* *try* *try* *put* the rawClipboardData into ta3 *catch* myError *put* myError into e3 *end* *try* *put* 1 into n *repeat* for each line k in myK3 *try* *put* the rawClipboardData[k] into temp[n] *catch* myError *put* myError into e4[n] *end* *try* *add* 1 to n *end* *repeat* *unlock* clipboard *end* a2 From paul at researchware.com Sat Sep 2 11:13:08 2023 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2023 11:13:08 -0400 Subject: Pasting text and images together? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3814cd2a-0f20-2bbb-8783-42fc57e68705@researchware.com> Since my method didn't work, I'd try Marks, namely to put the keys of the clipboard array into a variable to look at on mouseUp   lock clipboard   put the keys of the clipboarddata into tKeys1   put the keys of the fullclipboarddata into tKeys2   put the keys of the rawclipboarddata into tkeys3   breakpoint   unlock clipboard end mouseUp I tested this in LC 10dp6 and it works. Once you see what keys are present with your mixed text and images copied to the clipboard, you can choose which clipboard array and keys to work with to get the data. -- Paul On 9/2/2023 10:36 AM, David Epstein via use-livecode wrote: > Many thanks to Paul Dupuis and Mark Waddingham. The script below tries to > test their suggestions. Using 10.0.0 dp5 on an Intel Mac, and watching > execution after the breakpoint, I get errors at each "try" in the script. > So it does not seem that I can write the fullClipboardData > or rawClipboardData to an array variable; and it does not seem that I can > access any element of the rawClipboardData array. Further advice is > welcome. > > Best wishes, > David Epstein > > *on* a2 > > *lock* clipboard > > *put* the keys of the clipboardData into myK1 > > *put* the keys of the fullClipboardData into myK2 > > *put* the keys of the rawClipboardData into myK3 > > *breakpoint* > > *try* > > *put* the fullClipboardData into ta2 > > *catch* myError > > *put* myError into e2 > > *end* *try* > > *try* > > *put* the rawClipboardData into ta3 > > *catch* myError > > *put* myError into e3 > > *end* *try* > > *put* 1 into n > > *repeat* for each line k in myK3 > > *try* > > *put* the rawClipboardData[k] into temp[n] > > *catch* myError > > *put* myError into e4[n] > > *end* *try* > > *add* 1 to n > > *end* *repeat* > > *unlock* clipboard > > *end* a2 > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dan at clearvisiontech.com Sat Sep 2 11:26:20 2023 From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2023 15:26:20 +0000 Subject: Shutdown on Android In-Reply-To: <00cfaadd-a883-5564-a7e1-6d0dafff699f@hyperactivesw.com> References: <00cfaadd-a883-5564-a7e1-6d0dafff699f@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Jacqueline, Thank you for the reply. I don’t think suspend and resume are going to help… If the app is playing music (in the foreground or the background) and the user brings up the list of running apps and swipes up to remove it, how can I trap that the app is being closed and stop playing music? -Dan From: use-livecode on behalf of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode Date: Friday, September 1, 2023 at 3:37 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: J. Landman Gay Subject: Re: Shutdown on Android On 8/31/23 5:36 PM, Dan Friedman via use-livecode wrote: > Does the shutdown message (or shutdownRequest message) work on Android? I am playing a song using androidStartAudioPlayingInBackground. However, if the app is closed (swiping up to exit it), then the audio continues to play. So, I added an androidStopAudioPlayingInBackground command in the shutdown message to stop playing the audio. But doesn’t seem to work – audio continues to play. > > Any thoughts? Mark Smith reminded me that the suspend and resume messages are now supported on mobile platforms. That might do it. My old brain forgot about that. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From marksmithhfx at gmail.com Sat Sep 2 12:39:22 2023 From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2023 17:39:22 +0100 Subject: Shutdown on Android In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dan, have a look at suspend in the dictionary for LC 10 dp6. It is sent to the current card when the application moves to the background so I think you’ll need an ON SUSPEND handler in the card script. I havent actually tried it yet. Mark Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 2, 2023, at 4:27 PM, Dan Friedman via use-livecode wrote: > > Jacqueline, > > Thank you for the reply. I don’t think suspend and resume are going to help… If the app is playing music (in the foreground or the background) and the user brings up the list of running apps and swipes up to remove it, how can I trap that the app is being closed and stop playing music? > > -Dan > > > > From: use-livecode on behalf of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode > Date: Friday, September 1, 2023 at 3:37 PM > To: How to use LiveCode > Cc: J. Landman Gay > Subject: Re: Shutdown on Android >> On 8/31/23 5:36 PM, Dan Friedman via use-livecode wrote: >> Does the shutdown message (or shutdownRequest message) work on Android? I am playing a song using androidStartAudioPlayingInBackground. However, if the app is closed (swiping up to exit it), then the audio continues to play. So, I added an androidStopAudioPlayingInBackground command in the shutdown message to stop playing the audio. But doesn’t seem to work – audio continues to play. >> >> Any thoughts? > > Mark Smith reminded me that the suspend and resume messages are now supported on mobile > platforms. That might do it. > > My old brain forgot about that. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Sep 2 13:31:32 2023 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2023 12:31:32 -0500 Subject: Shutdown on Android In-Reply-To: References: <00cfaadd-a883-5564-a7e1-6d0dafff699f@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <18a56f32d20.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> In my experience the app remains running when the recent apps are displayed, but if you continue by choosing another app then I think you should get either the shutdowns message or the suspend one. It's worth a try. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On September 2, 2023 10:27:13 AM Dan Friedman wrote: > Jacqueline, > > Thank you for the reply. I dont think suspend and resume are going to > help If the app is playing music (in the foreground or the background) and > the user brings up the list of running apps and swipes up to remove it, how > can I trap that the app is being closed and stop playing music? > > -Dan From dfe4 at cornell.edu Sat Sep 2 17:07:10 2023 From: dfe4 at cornell.edu (David Epstein) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2023 17:07:10 -0400 Subject: Pasting text and images together Message-ID: Paul, getting the keys of the rawClipboardData worked for me too. What didn’t work was trying to read the values. See this part of my script, I hope shown this time without the asterisks gMail added before: lock clipboard … put the keys of the rawClipboardData into myK3 ## THIS WORKS … repeat for each line k in myK3 try put the rawClipboardData[k] into temp[n] ## DOESN’T WORK catch myError put myError into e4[n] ## ERROR IS TRIGGERED end try add 1 to n end repeat unlock clipboard > From: Paul Dupuis > To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Subject: Re: Pasting text and images together? > Message-ID: <3814cd2a-0f20-2bbb-8783-42fc57e68705 at researchware.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed > > Since my method didn't work, I'd try Marks, namely to put the keys of > the clipboard array into a variable to look at > > on mouseUp > ? lock clipboard > ? put the keys of the clipboarddata into tKeys1 > ? put the keys of the fullclipboarddata into tKeys2 > ? put the keys of the rawclipboarddata into tkeys3 > ? breakpoint > ? unlock clipboard > end mouseUp > > I tested this in LC 10dp6 and it works. Once you see what keys are > present with your mixed text and images copied to the clipboard, you can > choose which clipboard array and keys to work with to get the data. > > -- Paul > > >> On 9/2/2023 10:36 AM, David Epstein via use-livecode wrote: >> Many thanks to Paul Dupuis and Mark Waddingham. The script below tries to >> test their suggestions. Using 10.0.0 dp5 on an Intel Mac, and watching >> execution after the breakpoint, I get errors at each "try" in the script. >> So it does not seem that I can write the fullClipboardData >> or rawClipboardData to an array variable; and it does not seem that I can >> access any element of the rawClipboardData array. Further advice is >> welcome. >> >> Best wishes, >> David Epstein >> >> *on* a2 >> >> *lock* clipboard >> >> *put* the keys of the clipboardData into myK1 >> >> *put* the keys of the fullClipboardData into myK2 >> >> *put* the keys of the rawClipboardData into myK3 >> >> *breakpoint* >> >> *try* >> >> *put* the fullClipboardData into ta2 >> >> *catch* myError >> >> *put* myError into e2 >> >> *end* *try* >> >> *try* >> >> *put* the rawClipboardData into ta3 >> >> *catch* myError >> >> *put* myError into e3 >> >> *end* *try* >> >> *put* 1 into n >> >> *repeat* for each line k in myK3 >> >> *try* >> >> *put* the rawClipboardData[k] into temp[n] >> >> *catch* myError >> >> *put* myError into e4[n] >> >> *end* *try* >> >> *add* 1 to n >> >> *end* *repeat* >> >> *unlock* clipboard >> >> *end* a2 From paul at researchware.com Sat Sep 2 18:24:32 2023 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2023 18:24:32 -0400 Subject: Pasting text and images together In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9693e16b-f1b2-dc6f-9d03-a2d1a185f108@researchware.com> Your right. Something about the rawClipboardData fails with an error. Trying the fullClipboardData (code below) works. My guess is that there may be something about the first key (on my Windows system that is "text/html" where the slash is causing an error?  I'd need to look at it further - perhaps skip that key and try others. This may be a bug that may be worth reporting in the LC Quality center. You might get what you want from the fullClipboardData (below) on mouseUp pMouseButton   local n=1   lock clipboard   --   put the keys of the fullClipboardData into myK3  ## THIS WORKS   --   repeat for each line k in myK3     try       put the fullClipboardData[k] into temp[n]  ## DOESNT WORK     catch myError       put myError into e4[n] ## ERROR IS TRIGGERED     end try     add 1 to n   end repeat   unlock clipboard end mouseUp On 9/2/2023 5:07 PM, David Epstein via use-livecode wrote: > Paul, getting the keys of the rawClipboardData worked for me too. What didnt work was trying to read the values. See this part of my script, I hope shown this time without the asterisks gMail added before: > > lock clipboard > > put the keys of the rawClipboardData into myK3 ## THIS WORKS > > repeat for each line k in myK3 > try > put the rawClipboardData[k] into temp[n] ## DOESNT WORK > catch myError > put myError into e4[n] ## ERROR IS TRIGGERED > end try > add 1 to n > end repeat > unlock clipboard > > > >> From: Paul Dupuis >> To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Subject: Re: Pasting text and images together? >> Message-ID: <3814cd2a-0f20-2bbb-8783-42fc57e68705 at researchware.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed >> >> Since my method didn't work, I'd try Marks, namely to put the keys of >> the clipboard array into a variable to look at >> >> on mouseUp >> ? lock clipboard >> ? put the keys of the clipboarddata into tKeys1 >> ? put the keys of the fullclipboarddata into tKeys2 >> ? put the keys of the rawclipboarddata into tkeys3 >> ? breakpoint >> ? unlock clipboard >> end mouseUp >> >> I tested this in LC 10dp6 and it works. Once you see what keys are >> present with your mixed text and images copied to the clipboard, you can >> choose which clipboard array and keys to work with to get the data. >> >> -- Paul >> >> >>> On 9/2/2023 10:36 AM, David Epstein via use-livecode wrote: >>> Many thanks to Paul Dupuis and Mark Waddingham. The script below tries to >>> test their suggestions. Using 10.0.0 dp5 on an Intel Mac, and watching >>> execution after the breakpoint, I get errors at each "try" in the script. >>> So it does not seem that I can write the fullClipboardData >>> or rawClipboardData to an array variable; and it does not seem that I can >>> access any element of the rawClipboardData array. Further advice is >>> welcome. >>> >>> Best wishes, >>> David Epstein >>> >>> *on* a2 >>> >>> *lock* clipboard >>> >>> *put* the keys of the clipboardData into myK1 >>> >>> *put* the keys of the fullClipboardData into myK2 >>> >>> *put* the keys of the rawClipboardData into myK3 >>> >>> *breakpoint* >>> >>> *try* >>> >>> *put* the fullClipboardData into ta2 >>> >>> *catch* myError >>> >>> *put* myError into e2 >>> >>> *end* *try* >>> >>> *try* >>> >>> *put* the rawClipboardData into ta3 >>> >>> *catch* myError >>> >>> *put* myError into e3 >>> >>> *end* *try* >>> >>> *put* 1 into n >>> >>> *repeat* for each line k in myK3 >>> >>> *try* >>> >>> *put* the rawClipboardData[k] into temp[n] >>> >>> *catch* myError >>> >>> *put* myError into e4[n] >>> >>> *end* *try* >>> >>> *add* 1 to n >>> >>> *end* *repeat* >>> >>> *unlock* clipboard >>> >>> *end* a2 > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Sat Sep 2 20:18:18 2023 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au) Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2023 10:18:18 +1000 Subject: sort bug In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <05140c1e777df65d8eddac9079e80d0e1350d3b7@webmail.optusnet.com.au> Geoff Canyon wrote (after a bravura  display of how many different ways there are to do things in LC!) : And the function sort also sorts based on a negative infinity value for errors. I'm not sure I'd consider that a bug. Hmm. I would. The sortKey function should tolerate any sort of run-time error? But anyway that's not the issue. The bug I see is that the sort command exits its containing handler - actually I presume the sortKey function exits to top - without throwing an error, so nothing  beyond that line is executed. This creates a very difficult problem to track down, since the code appears to be executing correctly, until something falls over or a file gets corrupted much later because some stuff never happened.  Of course one should always validate data, particularly if it's not your own data. In this case it was my own data! Moreover I had thought I had checked for invalid cases, just hadn't checked all possible kinds of invalid data (the sortKey was rather more complicated than the one I used for illustration). Neville ------------------------- Email sent using Optus Webmail From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Sat Sep 2 20:59:02 2023 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2023 02:59:02 +0200 Subject: Sorting by item ... of each and item ... of each Message-ID: <02EB4D6F-9825-4D07-8FD3-90A627F20FE4@m-r-d.de> Maybe i do not see the forest for the trees.... I have a tab delimited list which i want to sort. I am using this code to sort it by item 3 and item 2 set the itemdelimiter to tab sort lines of tList numeric by item 3 of each and item 2 of each. But that code does not sort as i expected it. Column 2 is not sorted correctly. The following list is the result. 113254;8420;3016365 113254;8423;3016365 113254;8422;3016365 113254;8420;3016365 113254;8420;3016365 113254;8420;3016365 113254;8421;3016365 203212;8420;3016366 203212;8423;3016366 203212;8422;3016366 203212;8420;3016366 My expectation for example was that for value 3016365 in column 3 the values in Col 2 would be sorted like this 113254;8423;3016365 113254;8422;3016365 113254;8421;3016365 113254;8420;3016365 113254;8420;3016365 113254;8420;3016365 113254;8420;3016365 Tried also 'by item 2 of each and item 3 of each', but the sort result is the same? Am i missing something? Regards, Matthias From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Sat Sep 2 21:03:00 2023 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2023 03:03:00 +0200 Subject: Sorting by item ... of each and item ... of each In-Reply-To: <02EB4D6F-9825-4D07-8FD3-90A627F20FE4@m-r-d.de> References: <02EB4D6F-9825-4D07-8FD3-90A627F20FE4@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <277E785C-4B96-46B5-956F-0346B232B79A@m-r-d.de> Of course my "not working" sort code look like this set the itemdelimiter to ";" sort lines of tList numeric by item 3 of each and item 2 of each. > Am 03.09.2023 um 02:59 schrieb matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de: > > Maybe i do not see the forest for the trees.... > > I have a tab delimited list which i want to sort. I am using this code to sort it by item 3 and item 2 > > set the itemdelimiter to tab > sort lines of tList numeric by item 3 of each and item 2 of each. > > But that code does not sort as i expected it. Column 2 is not sorted correctly. > The following list is the result. > > 113254;8420;3016365 > 113254;8423;3016365 > 113254;8422;3016365 > 113254;8420;3016365 > 113254;8420;3016365 > 113254;8420;3016365 > 113254;8421;3016365 > 203212;8420;3016366 > 203212;8423;3016366 > 203212;8422;3016366 > 203212;8420;3016366 > > > My expectation for example was that for value 3016365 in column 3 the values in Col 2 would be sorted like this > > 113254;8423;3016365 > 113254;8422;3016365 > 113254;8421;3016365 > 113254;8420;3016365 > 113254;8420;3016365 > 113254;8420;3016365 > 113254;8420;3016365 > > Tried also 'by item 2 of each and item 3 of each', but the sort result is the same? > > Am i missing something? > > Regards, > Matthias > From phil at pdslabs.net Sun Sep 3 01:22:39 2023 From: phil at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2023 22:22:39 -0700 Subject: Sorting by item ... of each and item ... of each In-Reply-To: <277E785C-4B96-46B5-956F-0346B232B79A@m-r-d.de> References: <02EB4D6F-9825-4D07-8FD3-90A627F20FE4@m-r-d.de> <277E785C-4B96-46B5-956F-0346B232B79A@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <6c60b460-aba4-eb4e-4702-8944cb9db226@pdslabs.net> I believe this works: on mouseUp     put fld 1 into tList     sort lines of tList by _sortKey(each)     put tList into fld 2 end mouseUp function _sortKey pLine     set the itemDel to ";"     return item 3 of pLine & ";" & item 2 of pLine end _sortKey I realize it isn't as simple as you were looking for, but at least it avoids doing 2 separate sorts. Phil Davis On 9/2/23 6:03 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > Of course my "not working" sort code look like this > > set the itemdelimiter to ";" > sort lines of tList numeric by item 3 of each and item 2 of each. > > > > >> Am 03.09.2023 um 02:59 schriebmatthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de: >> >> Maybe i do not see the forest for the trees.... >> >> I have a tab delimited list which i want to sort. I am using this code to sort it by item 3 and item 2 >> >> set the itemdelimiter to tab >> sort lines of tList numeric by item 3 of each and item 2 of each. >> >> But that code does not sort as i expected it. Column 2 is not sorted correctly. >> The following list is the result. >> >> 113254;8420;3016365 >> 113254;8423;3016365 >> 113254;8422;3016365 >> 113254;8420;3016365 >> 113254;8420;3016365 >> 113254;8420;3016365 >> 113254;8421;3016365 >> 203212;8420;3016366 >> 203212;8423;3016366 >> 203212;8422;3016366 >> 203212;8420;3016366 >> >> >> My expectation for example was that for value 3016365 in column 3 the values in Col 2 would be sorted like this >> >> 113254;8423;3016365 >> 113254;8422;3016365 >> 113254;8421;3016365 >> 113254;8420;3016365 >> 113254;8420;3016365 >> 113254;8420;3016365 >> 113254;8420;3016365 >> >> Tried also 'by item 2 of each and item 3 of each', but the sort result is the same? >> >> Am i missing something? >> >> Regards, >> Matthias >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Phil Davis (503) 307-4363 From merakosp at gmail.com Sun Sep 3 05:26:05 2023 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis m) Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2023 12:26:05 +0300 Subject: Sorting by item ... of each and item ... of each In-Reply-To: <6c60b460-aba4-eb4e-4702-8944cb9db226@pdslabs.net> References: <02EB4D6F-9825-4D07-8FD3-90A627F20FE4@m-r-d.de> <277E785C-4B96-46B5-956F-0346B232B79A@m-r-d.de> <6c60b460-aba4-eb4e-4702-8944cb9db226@pdslabs.net> Message-ID: Hello Matthias, I do not think that the syntax "sort by sortKey1 and sortKey2" is supported If you have multiple sortKeys, you have to do multiple sorts, for example, in your use case, this should work: set the itemdel to ";" sort lines of tList numeric by item 3 of each sort lines of tList numeric by item 2 of each Kind regards, Panos -- On Sun, 3 Sept 2023 at 08:23, Phil Davis via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I believe this works: > > on mouseUp > put fld 1 into tList > sort lines of tList by _sortKey(each) > put tList into fld 2 > end mouseUp > > > function _sortKey pLine > set the itemDel to ";" > return item 3 of pLine & ";" & item 2 of pLine > end _sortKey > > > I realize it isn't as simple as you were looking for, but at least it > avoids doing 2 separate sorts. > > Phil Davis > > > > On 9/2/23 6:03 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > > Of course my "not working" sort code look like this > > > > set the itemdelimiter to ";" > > sort lines of tList numeric by item 3 of each and item 2 of each. > > > > > > > > > >> Am 03.09.2023 um 02:59 schriebmatthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de: > >> > >> Maybe i do not see the forest for the trees.... > >> > >> I have a tab delimited list which i want to sort. I am using this code > to sort it by item 3 and item 2 > >> > >> set the itemdelimiter to tab > >> sort lines of tList numeric by item 3 of each and item 2 of each. > >> > >> But that code does not sort as i expected it. Column 2 is not sorted > correctly. > >> The following list is the result. > >> > >> 113254;8420;3016365 > >> 113254;8423;3016365 > >> 113254;8422;3016365 > >> 113254;8420;3016365 > >> 113254;8420;3016365 > >> 113254;8420;3016365 > >> 113254;8421;3016365 > >> 203212;8420;3016366 > >> 203212;8423;3016366 > >> 203212;8422;3016366 > >> 203212;8420;3016366 > >> > >> > >> My expectation for example was that for value 3016365 in column 3 the > values in Col 2 would be sorted like this > >> > >> 113254;8423;3016365 > >> 113254;8422;3016365 > >> 113254;8421;3016365 > >> 113254;8420;3016365 > >> 113254;8420;3016365 > >> 113254;8420;3016365 > >> 113254;8420;3016365 > >> > >> Tried also 'by item 2 of each and item 3 of each', but the sort > result is the same? > >> > >> Am i missing something? > >> > >> Regards, > >> Matthias > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > -- > Phil Davis > (503) 307-4363 > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From mark at livecode.com Sun Sep 3 05:49:30 2023 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2023 10:49:30 +0100 Subject: Sorting by item ... of each and item ... of each In-Reply-To: References: <02EB4D6F-9825-4D07-8FD3-90A627F20FE4@m-r-d.de> <277E785C-4B96-46B5-956F-0346B232B79A@m-r-d.de> <6c60b460-aba4-eb4e-4702-8944cb9db226@pdslabs.net> Message-ID: On 2023-09-03 10:26, panagiotis m via use-livecode wrote: > Hello Matthias, > > I do not think that the syntax "sort by sortKey1 and > sortKey2" > is supported Heh technically it 'is' - and does do something but it won't be what you expected... So the syntax for sort in this case is: sort by This works by iterating over the elements in , passing each through the expression to generate a sort key list, sorting that list and then reordering the original list. Expressions can contain the boolean 'and' operator, so: sort by X and Y Means that the sort key is evaluated as 'X and Y' for each element - meaning sort ends up sorting a list of 'true' and 'false' values. As Panos says, if you want to sort by separate fields with decreasing priority you need to do multiple sorts from least priority to most - this works because 'sort' is stable (if two elements compare the same, then the order of them in the output list is the same as the first). The alternative is to work out a sort expression which combines the two parts of the element you want to sort so that the sort keys sort in that order. This can be quite tricky, but (for example) - let's say your container has elements of the form: , So you want things in the 'obvious' sorted order - then you could use: sort tSections ascending text by format("%08d%08d", item 1 of each, item 2 of each) Here the sortkey is defined so that the text sort of the sort keys is that same as sorting first by sub-section number and then by section number. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Build Amazing Things From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Sun Sep 3 08:17:18 2023 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2023 14:17:18 +0200 Subject: Sorting by item ... of each and item ... of each In-Reply-To: <6c60b460-aba4-eb4e-4702-8944cb9db226@pdslabs.net> References: <02EB4D6F-9825-4D07-8FD3-90A627F20FE4@m-r-d.de> <277E785C-4B96-46B5-956F-0346B232B79A@m-r-d.de> <6c60b460-aba4-eb4e-4702-8944cb9db226@pdslabs.net> Message-ID: Thanks Phil, i will try. > Am 03.09.2023 um 07:22 schrieb Phil Davis via use-livecode : > > I believe this works: > > on mouseUp > put fld 1 into tList > sort lines of tList by _sortKey(each) > put tList into fld 2 > end mouseUp > > > function _sortKey pLine > set the itemDel to ";" > return item 3 of pLine & ";" & item 2 of pLine > end _sortKey > > > I realize it isn't as simple as you were looking for, but at least it avoids doing 2 separate sorts. > > Phil Davis > > > > On 9/2/23 6:03 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: >> Of course my "not working" sort code look like this >> >> set the itemdelimiter to ";" >> sort lines of tList numeric by item 3 of each and item 2 of each. >> >> >> >> >>> Am 03.09.2023 um 02:59 schriebmatthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de: >>> >>> Maybe i do not see the forest for the trees.... >>> >>> I have a tab delimited list which i want to sort. I am using this code to sort it by item 3 and item 2 >>> >>> set the itemdelimiter to tab >>> sort lines of tList numeric by item 3 of each and item 2 of each. >>> >>> But that code does not sort as i expected it. Column 2 is not sorted correctly. >>> The following list is the result. >>> >>> 113254;8420;3016365 >>> 113254;8423;3016365 >>> 113254;8422;3016365 >>> 113254;8420;3016365 >>> 113254;8420;3016365 >>> 113254;8420;3016365 >>> 113254;8421;3016365 >>> 203212;8420;3016366 >>> 203212;8423;3016366 >>> 203212;8422;3016366 >>> 203212;8420;3016366 >>> >>> >>> My expectation for example was that for value 3016365 in column 3 the values in Col 2 would be sorted like this >>> >>> 113254;8423;3016365 >>> 113254;8422;3016365 >>> 113254;8421;3016365 >>> 113254;8420;3016365 >>> 113254;8420;3016365 >>> 113254;8420;3016365 >>> 113254;8420;3016365 >>> >>> Tried also 'by item 2 of each and item 3 of each', but the sort result is the same? >>> >>> Am i missing something? >>> >>> Regards, >>> Matthias >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > -- > Phil Davis > (503) 307-4363 > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Sun Sep 3 08:20:51 2023 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2023 14:20:51 +0200 Subject: Sorting by item ... of each and item ... of each In-Reply-To: References: <02EB4D6F-9825-4D07-8FD3-90A627F20FE4@m-r-d.de> <277E785C-4B96-46B5-956F-0346B232B79A@m-r-d.de> <6c60b460-aba4-eb4e-4702-8944cb9db226@pdslabs.net> Message-ID: <4667FA3F-E267-4C97-A1F0-706D0A3A3DA6@m-r-d.de> Thanks Panos, you are right. ;) While reading your answer i remembered that i have done this with 2 separate sorts. I really don't know how i thought to use by sortKey1 and sortKey2 But at least the script editor did not return an error. Should not work so late in the night. Matthias > Am 03.09.2023 um 11:26 schrieb panagiotis m via use-livecode : > > Hello Matthias, > > I do not think that the syntax "sort by sortKey1 and sortKey2" > is supported > > If you have multiple sortKeys, you have to do multiple sorts, for example, > in your use case, this should work: > > set the itemdel to ";" > sort lines of tList numeric by item 3 of each > sort lines of tList numeric by item 2 of each > > Kind regards, > Panos > -- > > On Sun, 3 Sept 2023 at 08:23, Phil Davis via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> I believe this works: >> >> on mouseUp >> put fld 1 into tList >> sort lines of tList by _sortKey(each) >> put tList into fld 2 >> end mouseUp >> >> >> function _sortKey pLine >> set the itemDel to ";" >> return item 3 of pLine & ";" & item 2 of pLine >> end _sortKey >> >> >> I realize it isn't as simple as you were looking for, but at least it >> avoids doing 2 separate sorts. >> >> Phil Davis >> >> >> >> On 9/2/23 6:03 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: >>> Of course my "not working" sort code look like this >>> >>> set the itemdelimiter to ";" >>> sort lines of tList numeric by item 3 of each and item 2 of each. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> Am 03.09.2023 um 02:59 schriebmatthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de: >>>> >>>> Maybe i do not see the forest for the trees.... >>>> >>>> I have a tab delimited list which i want to sort. I am using this code >> to sort it by item 3 and item 2 >>>> >>>> set the itemdelimiter to tab >>>> sort lines of tList numeric by item 3 of each and item 2 of each. >>>> >>>> But that code does not sort as i expected it. Column 2 is not sorted >> correctly. >>>> The following list is the result. >>>> >>>> 113254;8420;3016365 >>>> 113254;8423;3016365 >>>> 113254;8422;3016365 >>>> 113254;8420;3016365 >>>> 113254;8420;3016365 >>>> 113254;8420;3016365 >>>> 113254;8421;3016365 >>>> 203212;8420;3016366 >>>> 203212;8423;3016366 >>>> 203212;8422;3016366 >>>> 203212;8420;3016366 >>>> >>>> >>>> My expectation for example was that for value 3016365 in column 3 the >> values in Col 2 would be sorted like this >>>> >>>> 113254;8423;3016365 >>>> 113254;8422;3016365 >>>> 113254;8421;3016365 >>>> 113254;8420;3016365 >>>> 113254;8420;3016365 >>>> 113254;8420;3016365 >>>> 113254;8420;3016365 >>>> >>>> Tried also 'by item 2 of each and item 3 of each', but the sort >> result is the same? >>>> >>>> Am i missing something? >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Matthias >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> -- >> Phil Davis >> (503) 307-4363 >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Sun Sep 3 08:29:13 2023 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2023 14:29:13 +0200 Subject: Sorting by item ... of each and item ... of each In-Reply-To: References: <02EB4D6F-9825-4D07-8FD3-90A627F20FE4@m-r-d.de> <277E785C-4B96-46B5-956F-0346B232B79A@m-r-d.de> <6c60b460-aba4-eb4e-4702-8944cb9db226@pdslabs.net> Message-ID: <390CF75E-1838-4E82-A430-834BF1CD38CF@m-r-d.de> Hello Mark, thanks for explanation and also for your solution. I will try. Maybe i should get my book "regular expressions" from Jeffrey E.F.Friedl from the shelf and should finish reading it, so i could make use of regular expressions in Livecode more often. Regards, Matthias > Am 03.09.2023 um 11:49 schrieb Mark Waddingham via use-livecode : > > On 2023-09-03 10:26, panagiotis m via use-livecode wrote: >> Hello Matthias, >> I do not think that the syntax "sort by sortKey1 and sortKey2" >> is supported > > Heh technically it 'is' - and does do something but it won't be what you expected... > > So the syntax for sort in this case is: > > sort by > > This works by iterating over the elements in , passing each through the expression to generate a sort key list, sorting that list and then reordering the original list. > > Expressions can contain the boolean 'and' operator, so: > > sort by X and Y > > Means that the sort key is evaluated as 'X and Y' for each element - meaning sort ends up sorting a list of 'true' and 'false' values. > > As Panos says, if you want to sort by separate fields with decreasing priority you need to do multiple sorts from least priority to most - this works because 'sort' is stable (if two elements compare the same, then the order of them in the output list is the same as the first). > > The alternative is to work out a sort expression which combines the two parts of the element you want to sort so that the sort keys sort in that order. This can be quite tricky, but (for example) - let's say your container has elements of the form: > > , > > So you want things in the 'obvious' sorted order - then you could use: > > sort tSections ascending text by format("%08d%08d", item 1 of each, item 2 of each) > > Here the sortkey is defined so that the text sort of the sort keys is that same as sorting first by sub-section number and then by section number. > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > > -- > Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Build Amazing Things > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From harrison at all-auctions.com Sun Sep 3 14:18:42 2023 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com) Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2023 14:18:42 -0400 Subject: Installing LC on Ubuntu? In-Reply-To: <4667FA3F-E267-4C97-A1F0-706D0A3A3DA6@m-r-d.de> References: <02EB4D6F-9825-4D07-8FD3-90A627F20FE4@m-r-d.de> <277E785C-4B96-46B5-956F-0346B232B79A@m-r-d.de> <6c60b460-aba4-eb4e-4702-8944cb9db226@pdslabs.net> <4667FA3F-E267-4C97-A1F0-706D0A3A3DA6@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: Hi there, I have been trying to install LiveCode on the latest “Jellyfish” version of Ubuntu by following the directions provided by LiveCode lesson: https://lessons.livecode.com/m/2571/l/148050-installing-livecode-on-linux I have found this lesson is now out of date and I am unable to successfully install LiveCode as a result. I can’t get the installer to execute. Can someone please kindly update the instructions so we can get the installer to work again? Thanks, Rick From ahsoftware at sonic.net Sun Sep 3 14:42:01 2023 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2023 11:42:01 -0700 Subject: Installing LC on Ubuntu? In-Reply-To: References: <02EB4D6F-9825-4D07-8FD3-90A627F20FE4@m-r-d.de> <277E785C-4B96-46B5-956F-0346B232B79A@m-r-d.de> <6c60b460-aba4-eb4e-4702-8944cb9db226@pdslabs.net> <4667FA3F-E267-4C97-A1F0-706D0A3A3DA6@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: On 9/3/23 11:18, harrison--- via use-livecode wrote: > Hi there, > > I have been trying to install LiveCode on > the latest Jellyfish version of Ubuntu > by following the directions provided by > LiveCode lesson: > > https://lessons.livecode.com/m/2571/l/148050-installing-livecode-on-linux > > I have found this lesson is now out of date and I am unable to > successfully install LiveCode as a result. I cant get the installer > to execute. > > Can someone please kindly update the instructions so we can > get the installer to work again? After setting the executable bit you should be able to just double-click the installer in the Downloads folder. Best to install for just you instead of the default "all users" to avoid having to use sudo. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From harrison at all-auctions.com Sun Sep 3 15:50:34 2023 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com) Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2023 15:50:34 -0400 Subject: Installing LC on Ubuntu? In-Reply-To: References: <02EB4D6F-9825-4D07-8FD3-90A627F20FE4@m-r-d.de> <277E785C-4B96-46B5-956F-0346B232B79A@m-r-d.de> <6c60b460-aba4-eb4e-4702-8944cb9db226@pdslabs.net> <4667FA3F-E267-4C97-A1F0-706D0A3A3DA6@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: Hi Mark, Thanks, I found that worked. I was misled by the old LiveCode lesson. Rick > On Sep 3, 2023, at 2:42 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > > After setting the executable bit you should be able to just double-click the installer in the Downloads folder. Best to install for just you instead of the default "all users" to avoid having to use sudo. From heather at livecode.com Mon Sep 4 06:13:02 2023 From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine) Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2023 11:13:02 +0100 Subject: Installing LC on Ubuntu? In-Reply-To: References: <02EB4D6F-9825-4D07-8FD3-90A627F20FE4@m-r-d.de> <277E785C-4B96-46B5-956F-0346B232B79A@m-r-d.de> <6c60b460-aba4-eb4e-4702-8944cb9db226@pdslabs.net> <4667FA3F-E267-4C97-A1F0-706D0A3A3DA6@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <8C1A07BA-268E-4C14-9B02-799B605142EF@livecode.com> Rick - could you leave a comment on the lesson? Then I can add it to the queue to be corrected/updated as needed. I could (and probably will) just add it to the queue anyway but I'd like to encourage people to comment on the lessons where they find issues, as we routinely address these and it helps to keep the lessons up to date. Best Regards, Heather Heather Laine Customer Services Manager LiveCode Ltd www.livecode.com > On 3 Sep 2023, at 20:50, harrison--- via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Mark, > > Thanks, I found that worked. > > I was misled by the old LiveCode lesson. > > Rick > >> On Sep 3, 2023, at 2:42 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: >> >> After setting the executable bit you should be able to just double-click the installer in the Downloads folder. Best to install for just you instead of the default "all users" to avoid having to use sudo. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From harrison at all-auctions.com Mon Sep 4 13:37:35 2023 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com) Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2023 13:37:35 -0400 Subject: Installing LC on Ubuntu? In-Reply-To: <8C1A07BA-268E-4C14-9B02-799B605142EF@livecode.com> References: <02EB4D6F-9825-4D07-8FD3-90A627F20FE4@m-r-d.de> <277E785C-4B96-46B5-956F-0346B232B79A@m-r-d.de> <6c60b460-aba4-eb4e-4702-8944cb9db226@pdslabs.net> <4667FA3F-E267-4C97-A1F0-706D0A3A3DA6@m-r-d.de> <8C1A07BA-268E-4C14-9B02-799B605142EF@livecode.com> Message-ID: <4817D340-861F-47AC-9071-08DC60E68FD8@all-auctions.com> Hi Heather, Done! Enjoy your day. Rick > On Sep 4, 2023, at 6:13 AM, Heather Laine via use-livecode wrote: > > Rick - could you leave a comment on the lesson? Then I can add it to the queue to be corrected/updated as needed. > > I could (and probably will) just add it to the queue anyway but I'd like to encourage people to comment on the lessons where they find issues, as we routinely address these and it helps to keep the lessons up to date. > > Best Regards, > > Heather > > Heather Laine > Customer Services Manager > LiveCode Ltd > www.livecode.com > > > >> On 3 Sep 2023, at 20:50, harrison--- via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Hi Mark, >> >> Thanks, I found that worked. >> >> I was misled by the old LiveCode lesson. >> >> Rick >> >>> On Sep 3, 2023, at 2:42 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> After setting the executable bit you should be able to just double-click the installer in the Downloads folder. Best to install for just you instead of the default "all users" to avoid having to use sudo. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dfe4 at cornell.edu Mon Sep 4 15:36:13 2023 From: dfe4 at cornell.edu (David Epstein) Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2023 15:36:13 -0400 Subject: Pasting text and images together Message-ID: <379311CB-470A-466A-84A1-F0A56BE56FAB@cornell.edu> I do not know how my problems accessing the rawClipboardData were overcome, but I succeeded in reading the array values there. So I was able to address my original question of how to reconstruct in LiveCode a combination of text and image copied from another program. Conclusion thus far: no success. If anyone is interested in this and might have some further suggestions, read on. When I use the control key to invoke from the contextual menu “copy image” on a web page, the fullClipboardData[“image”] gets a string of humanly unintelligible characters that, when used as the text of a LiveCode image object, shows the copied image. I did this for the picture of Robert Cailliau on webpage https://livecode.com/core-benefits-of-livecode/. Call this String A. To see how this information might be stored when I have copied both text and image, I selected from the word before to the word after that same picture, chose “Copy,” and then inspected the rawClipboardData["com.apple.flat-rtfd”], which seemed the most promising candidate of the various clipboardData array values. Call this String B. Something that looks kind of like String A appears in String B, but it is not the same. At char 4097 of String B I see the first few characters of the beginning of String A, and think this might define the PNG data to follow. But what follows is not the same as String A. Here’s the start of string A: âPNG IHDR,,y}éusRGBÆŒÈDeXIfMM*ái††,†,ÿ`ÇÁ at IDATxÏΩ And here’s char 4097ff of String B; âPNG IHDR,,y}éu IDATxúÏΩ{¨mYv÷˜sƵˆ„ÏÛ∏˜ú{Îvuuwuπ‹.€Ìˆ«!,d«2$qä¯a«9éCj,d°!dÅ"EâàB So my hope that String A could somehow be extracted from String B and used to “paste” the included image was disappointed. David Epstein From paul at researchware.com Mon Sep 4 16:03:43 2023 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2023 16:03:43 -0400 Subject: Pasting text and images together In-Reply-To: <379311CB-470A-466A-84A1-F0A56BE56FAB@cornell.edu> References: <379311CB-470A-466A-84A1-F0A56BE56FAB@cornell.edu> Message-ID: <397df2f2-80e0-82c7-8430-2ac3d93c3bf9@researchware.com> Do you have access to the Apple Developer web site? A search didn't tell me much but I find the side terrible useless. Following a bunch of variable type definitions I wandered to this page: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/foundation/nsattributedstring/1530578-rtfd Which also seemed useless to me. I was hoping to find some documentation that explicitly explained the format, rather than Apple API's to access the format. The Wikipedia entry seemed more helpful (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Text_Format_Directory) - it appears teh format is a "bundle" (or folder) of files, including an RTF file and how ever many media files. While I don't fully follow this Stackoverflow discussion (https://stackoverflow.com/questions/18722314/how-to-get-rtf-contents-from-uipasteboard-after-uiwebview-copy) it appears the clipboard contents is UTF8 encoded, so perhaps doing a textDecode of UTF8 and then looking at the result may be helpful? On 9/4/2023 3:36 PM, David Epstein via use-livecode wrote: > I do not know how my problems accessing the rawClipboardData were overcome, but I succeeded in reading the array values there. So I was able to address my original question of how to reconstruct in LiveCode a combination of text and image copied from another program. Conclusion thus far: no success. If anyone is interested in this and might have some further suggestions, read on. > > When I use the control key to invoke from the contextual menu copy image on a web page, the fullClipboardData[image] gets a string of humanly unintelligible characters that, when used as the text of a LiveCode image object, shows the copied image. I did this for the picture of Robert Cailliau on webpage https://livecode.com/core-benefits-of-livecode/. Call this String A. > > To see how this information might be stored when I have copied both text and image, I selected from the word before to the word after that same picture, chose Copy, and then inspected the rawClipboardData["com.apple.flat-rtfd], which seemed the most promising candidate of the various clipboardData array values. Call this String B. > > Something that looks kind of like String A appears in String B, but it is not the same. > > At char 4097 of String B I see the first few characters of the beginning of String A, and think this might define the PNG data to follow. But what follows is not the same as String A. > > Heres the start of string A: > > PNG > IHDR,,y}usRGBDeXIfMM*i,,`@IDATx > > And heres char 4097ff of String B; > > PNG > IHDR,,y}u IDATx{mYvs{vuuwu.!,d2$qa9Cj,d!d"EB > > So my hope that String A could somehow be extracted from String B and used to paste the included image was disappointed. > > David Epstein > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From craig at starfirelighting.com Tue Sep 5 10:29:49 2023 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2023 10:29:49 -0400 Subject: Sorting by item ... of each and item ... of each In-Reply-To: <390CF75E-1838-4E82-A430-834BF1CD38CF@m-r-d.de> References: <02EB4D6F-9825-4D07-8FD3-90A627F20FE4@m-r-d.de> <277E785C-4B96-46B5-956F-0346B232B79A@m-r-d.de> <6c60b460-aba4-eb4e-4702-8944cb9db226@pdslabs.net> <390CF75E-1838-4E82-A430-834BF1CD38CF@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <31967C70-63A6-4460-B43C-B6B9E11BFC96@starfirelighting.com> I may be simply misunderstanding… Since HC days, one could concatenate sort criteria using the “&” character, and obtain multiple stable sorts in one go. In LC as well, since given, in a field 1: 231 312 123 213 321 132 and in a button somewhere: on mouseUp get fld 1 sort it numeric by char 1 of each & char 3 of each answer it end mouseUp We get: 132 123 231 213 321 312 Craig > On Sep 3, 2023, at 8:29 AM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > > Hello Mark, > > thanks for explanation and also for your solution. I will try. > > Maybe i should get my book "regular expressions" from Jeffrey E.F.Friedl from the shelf and should finish reading it, so i could make use of regular expressions in Livecode more often. > > Regards, > Matthias > >> Am 03.09.2023 um 11:49 schrieb Mark Waddingham via use-livecode : >> >> On 2023-09-03 10:26, panagiotis m via use-livecode wrote: >>> Hello Matthias, >>> I do not think that the syntax "sort by sortKey1 and sortKey2" >>> is supported >> >> Heh technically it 'is' - and does do something but it won't be what you expected... >> >> So the syntax for sort in this case is: >> >> sort by >> >> This works by iterating over the elements in , passing each through the expression to generate a sort key list, sorting that list and then reordering the original list. >> >> Expressions can contain the boolean 'and' operator, so: >> >> sort by X and Y >> >> Means that the sort key is evaluated as 'X and Y' for each element - meaning sort ends up sorting a list of 'true' and 'false' values. >> >> As Panos says, if you want to sort by separate fields with decreasing priority you need to do multiple sorts from least priority to most - this works because 'sort' is stable (if two elements compare the same, then the order of them in the output list is the same as the first). >> >> The alternative is to work out a sort expression which combines the two parts of the element you want to sort so that the sort keys sort in that order. This can be quite tricky, but (for example) - let's say your container has elements of the form: >> >> , >> >> So you want things in the 'obvious' sorted order - then you could use: >> >> sort tSections ascending text by format("%08d%08d", item 1 of each, item 2 of each) >> >> Here the sortkey is defined so that the text sort of the sort keys is that same as sorting first by sub-section number and then by section number. >> >> Warmest Regards, >> >> Mark. >> >> -- >> Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ >> LiveCode: Build Amazing Things >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From craig at starfirelighting.com Tue Sep 5 12:53:45 2023 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2023 12:53:45 -0400 Subject: Sorting by item ... of each and item ... of each In-Reply-To: <31967C70-63A6-4460-B43C-B6B9E11BFC96@starfirelighting.com> References: <02EB4D6F-9825-4D07-8FD3-90A627F20FE4@m-r-d.de> <277E785C-4B96-46B5-956F-0346B232B79A@m-r-d.de> <6c60b460-aba4-eb4e-4702-8944cb9db226@pdslabs.net> <390CF75E-1838-4E82-A430-834BF1CD38CF@m-r-d.de> <31967C70-63A6-4460-B43C-B6B9E11BFC96@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: <9177DCD1-D088-4747-B82B-16897037AD55@starfirelighting.com> I should have given better context. I one only sorts the same field numeric, one gets: 123 132 213 231 312 321 Which is correct given the list of whole numbers in question. The stable sort allows one to then sort by char 3 of each, to get the result in the “compound” sort below. So am I missing something in all this? Craig > On Sep 5, 2023, at 10:29 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: > > I may be simply misunderstanding… > > Since HC days, one could concatenate sort criteria using the “&” character, and obtain multiple stable sorts in one go. In LC as well, since given, in a field 1: > > 231 > > 312 > > 123 > > 213 > > 321 > > 132 > > and in a button somewhere: > > on mouseUp > > get fld 1 > > sort it numeric by char 1 of each & char 3 of each > > answer it > > end mouseUp > > We get: > > 132 > > 123 > > 231 > > 213 > > 321 > > 312 > > > > Craig > > > > >> On Sep 3, 2023, at 8:29 AM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Hello Mark, >> >> thanks for explanation and also for your solution. I will try. >> >> Maybe i should get my book "regular expressions" from Jeffrey E.F.Friedl from the shelf and should finish reading it, so i could make use of regular expressions in Livecode more often. >> >> Regards, >> Matthias >> >>> Am 03.09.2023 um 11:49 schrieb Mark Waddingham via use-livecode : >>> >>> On 2023-09-03 10:26, panagiotis m via use-livecode wrote: >>>> Hello Matthias, >>>> I do not think that the syntax "sort by sortKey1 and sortKey2" >>>> is supported >>> >>> Heh technically it 'is' - and does do something but it won't be what you expected... >>> >>> So the syntax for sort in this case is: >>> >>> sort by >>> >>> This works by iterating over the elements in , passing each through the expression to generate a sort key list, sorting that list and then reordering the original list. >>> >>> Expressions can contain the boolean 'and' operator, so: >>> >>> sort by X and Y >>> >>> Means that the sort key is evaluated as 'X and Y' for each element - meaning sort ends up sorting a list of 'true' and 'false' values. >>> >>> As Panos says, if you want to sort by separate fields with decreasing priority you need to do multiple sorts from least priority to most - this works because 'sort' is stable (if two elements compare the same, then the order of them in the output list is the same as the first). >>> >>> The alternative is to work out a sort expression which combines the two parts of the element you want to sort so that the sort keys sort in that order. This can be quite tricky, but (for example) - let's say your container has elements of the form: >>> >>> , >>> >>> So you want things in the 'obvious' sorted order - then you could use: >>> >>> sort tSections ascending text by format("%08d%08d", item 1 of each, item 2 of each) >>> >>> Here the sortkey is defined so that the text sort of the sort keys is that same as sorting first by sub-section number and then by section number. >>> >>> Warmest Regards, >>> >>> Mark. >>> >>> -- >>> Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ >>> LiveCode: Build Amazing Things >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Tue Sep 5 17:05:50 2023 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2023 17:05:50 -0400 Subject: Sorting by item ... of each and item ... of each In-Reply-To: <277E785C-4B96-46B5-956F-0346B232B79A@m-r-d.de> References: <02EB4D6F-9825-4D07-8FD3-90A627F20FE4@m-r-d.de> <277E785C-4B96-46B5-956F-0346B232B79A@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <00e801d9e03c$c343f290$49cbd7b0$@net> You can at least detect if the sorting function has failed using a global variable. global s1 command test1 local t1 --put "10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1" into t1 -- This line will not show an error put "10,9,8,7a,6,5,4,3,2,1" into t1 -- This line will show an error put 0 into s1 sort items of t1 numeric by f1(each) if s1 <> the number of items in t1 then answer "Sort Function failed" put t1 & cr & s1 end test1 function f1 pEach local tEach put pEach into tEach add 1 to tEach add 1 to s1 return tEach end f1 Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of matthias rebbe via use-livecode Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2023 9:03 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Subject: Re: Sorting by item ... of each and item ... of each Of course my "not working" sort code look like this set the itemdelimiter to ";" sort lines of tList numeric by item 3 of each and item 2 of each. > Am 03.09.2023 um 02:59 schrieb matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de: > > Maybe i do not see the forest for the trees.... > > I have a tab delimited list which i want to sort. I am using this code to sort it by item 3 and item 2 > > set the itemdelimiter to tab > sort lines of tList numeric by item 3 of each and item 2 of each. > > But that code does not sort as i expected it. Column 2 is not sorted correctly. > The following list is the result. > > 113254;8420;3016365 > 113254;8423;3016365 > 113254;8422;3016365 > 113254;8420;3016365 > 113254;8420;3016365 > 113254;8420;3016365 > 113254;8421;3016365 > 203212;8420;3016366 > 203212;8423;3016366 > 203212;8422;3016366 > 203212;8420;3016366 > > > My expectation for example was that for value 3016365 in column 3 the values in Col 2 would be sorted like this > > 113254;8423;3016365 > 113254;8422;3016365 > 113254;8421;3016365 > 113254;8420;3016365 > 113254;8420;3016365 > 113254;8420;3016365 > 113254;8420;3016365 > > Tried also 'by item 2 of each and item 3 of each', but the sort result is the same? > > Am i missing something? > > Regards, > Matthias > _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From craig at starfirelighting.com Wed Sep 6 08:56:31 2023 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2023 08:56:31 -0400 Subject: Sorting by item ... of each and item ... of each In-Reply-To: <00e801d9e03c$c343f290$49cbd7b0$@net> References: <02EB4D6F-9825-4D07-8FD3-90A627F20FE4@m-r-d.de> <277E785C-4B96-46B5-956F-0346B232B79A@m-r-d.de> <00e801d9e03c$c343f290$49cbd7b0$@net> Message-ID: <39D6353E-0457-4D95-926E-4AD2DDDD04FF@starfirelighting.com> Matthias. I do not have your original data. But try using “&” instead of “and”. Craig > On Sep 5, 2023, at 5:05 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote: > > You can at least detect if the sorting function has failed using a global > variable. > > global s1 > > command test1 > local t1 > > --put "10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1" into t1 -- This line will not show an error > put "10,9,8,7a,6,5,4,3,2,1" into t1 -- This line will show an error > > put 0 into s1 > sort items of t1 numeric by f1(each) > > if s1 <> the number of items in t1 then answer "Sort Function failed" > put t1 & cr & s1 > > end test1 > > > function f1 pEach > local tEach > put pEach into tEach > add 1 to tEach > add 1 to s1 > return tEach > end f1 > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf > Of matthias rebbe via use-livecode > Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2023 9:03 PM > To: How to use LiveCode > Cc: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de > Subject: Re: Sorting by item ... of each and item ... of each > > Of course my "not working" sort code look like this > > set the itemdelimiter to ";" > sort lines of tList numeric by item 3 of each and item 2 of each. > > > > >> Am 03.09.2023 um 02:59 schrieb matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de: >> >> Maybe i do not see the forest for the trees.... >> >> I have a tab delimited list which i want to sort. I am using this code to > sort it by item 3 and item 2 >> >> set the itemdelimiter to tab >> sort lines of tList numeric by item 3 of each and item 2 of each. >> >> But that code does not sort as i expected it. Column 2 is not sorted > correctly. >> The following list is the result. >> >> 113254;8420;3016365 >> 113254;8423;3016365 >> 113254;8422;3016365 >> 113254;8420;3016365 >> 113254;8420;3016365 >> 113254;8420;3016365 >> 113254;8421;3016365 >> 203212;8420;3016366 >> 203212;8423;3016366 >> 203212;8422;3016366 >> 203212;8420;3016366 >> >> >> My expectation for example was that for value 3016365 in column 3 the > values in Col 2 would be sorted like this >> >> 113254;8423;3016365 >> 113254;8422;3016365 >> 113254;8421;3016365 >> 113254;8420;3016365 >> 113254;8420;3016365 >> 113254;8420;3016365 >> 113254;8420;3016365 >> >> Tried also 'by item 2 of each and item 3 of each', but the sort result > is the same? >> >> Am i missing something? >> >> Regards, >> Matthias >> > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jbv at souslelogo.com Wed Sep 6 09:22:20 2023 From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com) Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2023 09:22:20 -0400 Subject: LC server, on-rev and time zones Message-ID: <7592a0ecd9699f74cea485097d07cbaa@souslelogo.com> Hi list, How do you handle different time zones in server scripts ? For example, I and my clients are in Europe, so dates and times need to be consistent with the local time zone. But on-rev servers are located in the US East coast, so there is presently a 6 hours difference. Furthermore, switching from summer time to winter time (and back) occur at different dates in Europe and North America... How do you guys manage to keep everything consistent all year round ? Thanks you in advance. jbv From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Sep 6 09:39:12 2023 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2023 15:39:12 +0200 Subject: LC server, on-rev and time zones In-Reply-To: <7592a0ecd9699f74cea485097d07cbaa@souslelogo.com> References: <7592a0ecd9699f74cea485097d07cbaa@souslelogo.com> Message-ID: <5EE83064-0FA9-4D0C-87B0-DD2AC7F18FCD@m-r-d.de> You could try to set the $TZ variable. I did not try on On-Rev/LivecodeHosting, but on a HostM Server which also has Livecode Server installed. This script here for example would set the timezone first to Germany and outputs the current time and then for New York. <?lc put "Europe/Berlin" into $TZ set the twelvehourtime to false put the time put "
" put "America/New_York" into $TZ set the twelvehourtime to true put the time ?> > Am 06.09.2023 um 15:22 schrieb jbv via use-livecode : > > Hi list, > > How do you handle different time zones in server scripts ? > For example, I and my clients are in Europe, so dates and > times need to be consistent with the local time zone. > But on-rev servers are located in the US East coast, so > there is presently a 6 hours difference. > Furthermore, switching from summer time to winter time > (and back) occur at different dates in Europe and North > America... > How do you guys manage to keep everything consistent > all year round ? > > Thanks you in advance. > jbv > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jbv at souslelogo.com Wed Sep 6 10:05:27 2023 From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com) Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2023 10:05:27 -0400 Subject: LC server, on-rev and time zones In-Reply-To: <5EE83064-0FA9-4D0C-87B0-DD2AC7F18FCD@m-r-d.de> References: <7592a0ecd9699f74cea485097d07cbaa@souslelogo.com> <5EE83064-0FA9-4D0C-87B0-DD2AC7F18FCD@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <479b38cf5ab17454c10fbf9c2cbd7e2c@souslelogo.com> Just tested on On-Rev and it works. Thank you, that's very helpful. Le 2023-09-06 09:39, matthias rebbe via use-livecode a crit : > You could try to set the $TZ variable. I did not try on > On-Rev/LivecodeHosting, but on a HostM Server which also has Livecode > Server installed. > > This script here for example would set the timezone first to Germany > and outputs the current time and then for New York. > > > put "Europe/Berlin" into $TZ > set the twelvehourtime to false > put the time > put "
" > put "America/New_York" into $TZ > set the twelvehourtime to true > put the time > ?> > >> Am 06.09.2023 um 15:22 schrieb jbv via use-livecode >> : >> >> Hi list, >> >> How do you handle different time zones in server scripts ? >> For example, I and my clients are in Europe, so dates and >> times need to be consistent with the local time zone. >> But on-rev servers are located in the US East coast, so >> there is presently a 6 hours difference. >> Furthermore, switching from summer time to winter time >> (and back) occur at different dates in Europe and North >> America... >> How do you guys manage to keep everything consistent >> all year round ? >> >> Thanks you in advance. >> jbv >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Wed Sep 6 19:57:03 2023 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2023 09:57:03 +1000 Subject: Sort bug and also multilevel sorting Message-ID: <86B81444-2507-4063-98B7-27C55E381E1A@optusnet.com.au> Ralph: Interesting. Your code works as you present it, sorting the given items by the sortkey function f1 which adds 1 to each item. I do get the “sorting failed” dialog. But if I try the same thing using myVal modified as you suggest, which adds the first and second items of each line of data and then adds 1 to the global s1, I get the bug I reported: the handler simply exits without showing either the “sorting failed” or the “Done” answer dialog. I would have thought the two methods would generate the same error code, an incorrect operand in a sum, so this is strange! The function definitely returns on the error line, the value of s1 is not changed in the next line in either your f1 or my myVal. So perhaps the bug occurs when the processing returns to the sort code. Not something we can solve here, one for the engineers to sort out (!) Mark Waddingham says the sortKey function is intended to be tolerant of errors, simply returning the original value of ‘each’ - in your case each item, in my case each line. So it should either 1. Continue with the (undocumented) sort order OR 2a. exit to top AND 2b. drop into the debugger/errorDialog. In my example it is doing 2a but not 2b. Craig: The missing bit is that your method won’t work if the integers you are sorting by having different string lengths The lines 2,7 1,99 should, when sorted by numeric ascending (item 1 of each, item 2 of each) - which would be the appropriate syntax for a multilevel sort tho not in LC - result in 1.99 2,7 But if sorted by (item 1 of each & item 2 of each) - which concatenates as strings - gives sort keys 199 and 27 to result in 2,7 1,99 This can be fixed by formatting the numbers so they have the same length by padding with 0s, as MW noted. Once they have the same length you could actually sort lexically which may be a lot faster than sorting numerically (although my guess is using 2 separate sorts may be faster still at least for short lists). The concatenation method also won’t work if sorting real numbers: 1.0,0.2 1.0,0.1 since after concatenation the second decimal place would be ignored in a numeric sort. Neville Smythe From gcanyon at gmail.com Wed Sep 6 22:29:19 2023 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2023 22:29:19 -0400 Subject: sort bug In-Reply-To: <05140c1e777df65d8eddac9079e80d0e1350d3b7@webmail.optusnet.com.au> References: <05140c1e777df65d8eddac9079e80d0e1350d3b7@webmail.optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: >From the original email: If the function myVal encounters a run-time error (in the example if one of the items is not a number) the sort command fails silently: the script exits at that code line and the user is unaware that the sort (and the rest of the handler) were not executed. To be clear: the above is NOT what I'm seeing. Mark W says in the bug report: The 'sort ... by ...' command has always allowed the by expression to be fault tolerant - if evaluating it generates a runtime error then the sort key for that element is just taken to be the original element. And that is what I'm seeing. For example, this code does not exit -- it displays the answer dialog as if nothing out of the ordinary has happened: on mouseUp sort lines of fld 1 numeric by sortVal(each) answer "done" end mouseUp function sortVal S return item 2 of S + item 3 of S end sortVal It seems to be sorting as Mark described: when the function fails, the whole line is used for the sort. And that "fallback to the whole value needs better documentation, and could lead to some truly dismal debugging situations, but it doesn't seem like a bug to me. The original report, if I were able to replicate it, would clearly be a bug. On Sat, Sep 2, 2023 at 8:19 PM neville smythe via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Geoff Canyon wrote (after a bravura display of how many different > ways there are to do things in LC!) : > > And the function sort also sorts based on a negative infinity value > for > > errors. I'm not sure I'd consider that a bug. > > Hmm. I would. The sortKey function should tolerate any sort of > run-time error? But anyway that's not the issue. The bug I see is that > the sort command exits its containing handler - actually I presume the > sortKey function exits to top - without throwing an error, so nothing > beyond that line is executed. This creates a very difficult problem > to track down, since the code appears to be executing correctly, until > something falls over or a file gets corrupted much later because some > stuff never happened. > > Of course one should always validate data, particularly if it's not > your own data. In this case it was my own data! Moreover I had thought > I had checked for invalid cases, just hadn't checked all possible > kinds of invalid data (the sortKey was rather more complicated than > the one I used for illustration). > > Neville > > ------------------------- > Email sent using Optus Webmail > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From james at thehales.id.au Thu Sep 7 04:53:21 2023 From: james at thehales.id.au (James At The Hales) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2023 18:53:21 +1000 Subject: Responsive Layout and Opencard Message-ID: <0C9D1AC4-ACE7-45C6-8177-563C45776DA8@thehales.id.au> Is it my imagination or does using the responsive layout on a card trap the opencard message? I have a 2 card stack where card 2 is an info/help card. Both cards use the responsive layout widget. In order to position items and hide some I have an opencard handler on both cards But in going to the second card it didn’t seem to work. [it might1 not be working on card 1 either.] Testing for mobile (on the simulator) Finally I placed an extra fld on the card 2 and placed a ‘put’ into the fld to tell me what handler I was in. “In opencard” never appeared. I tried preopencard, but no that didn’t work either. After much swearing at my screen and almost giving up I remembered I was using the responsive layout. It then occurred to me that might be the issue. The workaround was to position my objects in the openstack handler. So my question is: is this normal that the responsive layout traps the opencard messages or is something else going on? James From craig at starfirelighting.com Thu Sep 7 09:12:09 2023 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2023 09:12:09 -0400 Subject: Sort bug and also multilevel sorting In-Reply-To: <86B81444-2507-4063-98B7-27C55E381E1A@optusnet.com.au> References: <86B81444-2507-4063-98B7-27C55E381E1A@optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <897E2B52-29B9-4FF4-A584-3E7C01EA4421@starfirelighting.com> Neville. My example was only to show that the sort command still maintains the ability to accept concatenated sort criteria. This allows a single line of code to do the work, and obviates the need for multiple sorts. In that sense it was a bad example to use character "places" in a string. This would not be an issue when using an explicit delimiter of some sort, typically what any sane coder would automatically do. Padding with zeros or spaces is the sort of kludge even I would blanch at. Craig > On Sep 6, 2023, at 7:57 PM, Neville Smythe via use-livecode wrote: > > Ralph: Interesting. Your code works as you present it, sorting the given items by the sortkey function f1 which adds 1 to each item. I do get the “sorting failed” dialog. > > But if I try the same thing using myVal modified as you suggest, which adds the first and second items of each line of data and then adds 1 to the global s1, I get the bug I reported: the handler simply exits without showing either the “sorting failed” or the “Done” answer dialog. > > I would have thought the two methods would generate the same error code, an incorrect operand in a sum, so this is strange! The function definitely returns on the error line, the value of s1 is not changed in the next line in either your f1 or my myVal. So perhaps the bug occurs when the processing returns to the sort code. Not something we can solve here, one for the engineers to sort out (!) > > Mark Waddingham says the sortKey function is intended to be tolerant of errors, simply returning the original value of ‘each’ - in your case each item, in my case each line. So it should either > > 1. Continue with the (undocumented) sort order OR > > 2a. exit to top AND 2b. drop into the debugger/errorDialog. In my example it is doing 2a but not 2b. > > Craig: The missing bit is that your method won’t work if the integers you are sorting by having different string lengths > > The lines > 2,7 > 1,99 > > should, when sorted by numeric ascending (item 1 of each, item 2 of each) - which would be the appropriate syntax for a multilevel sort tho not in LC - result in > 1.99 > 2,7 > > But if sorted by (item 1 of each & item 2 of each) - which concatenates as strings - gives sort keys 199 and 27 to result in > 2,7 > 1,99 > This can be fixed by formatting the numbers so they have the same length by padding with 0s, as MW noted. Once they have the same length you could actually sort lexically which may be a lot faster than sorting numerically (although my guess is using 2 separate sorts may be faster still at least for short lists). > > The concatenation method also won’t work if sorting real numbers: > 1.0,0.2 > 1.0,0.1 > since after concatenation the second decimal place would be ignored in a numeric sort. > > > Neville Smythe > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Sep 7 11:19:19 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2023 15:19:19 +0000 Subject: sort bug In-Reply-To: References: <05140c1e777df65d8eddac9079e80d0e1350d3b7@webmail.optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: For me, put "4,2,a,3,6" into tList;sort items of tList numeric ascending;put tList Results in: a,2,3,4,6 Bob S > On Sep 6, 2023, at 7:29 PM, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode wrote: > > From the original email: > > If the function myVal encounters a run-time error (in the example if one of > the items is not a number) the sort command fails silently: the script > exits at that code line and the user is unaware that the sort (and the rest > of the handler) were not executed. > > > To be clear: the above is NOT what I'm seeing. Mark W says in the bug > report: > > The 'sort ... by ...' command has always allowed the by expression to be > fault tolerant - if evaluating it generates a runtime error then the sort > key for that element is just taken to be the original element. > > And that is what I'm seeing. For example, this code does not exit -- it > displays the answer dialog as if nothing out of the ordinary has happened: > > on mouseUp > sort lines of fld 1 numeric by sortVal(each) > answer "done" > end mouseUp > > function sortVal S > return item 2 of S + item 3 of S > end sortVal > > It seems to be sorting as Mark described: when the function fails, the > whole line is used for the sort. And that "fallback to the whole value > needs better documentation, and could lead to some truly dismal debugging > situations, but it doesn't seem like a bug to me. > > The original report, if I were able to replicate it, would clearly be a bug. From craig at starfirelighting.com Thu Sep 7 11:46:38 2023 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2023 11:46:38 -0400 Subject: sort bug In-Reply-To: References: <05140c1e777df65d8eddac9079e80d0e1350d3b7@webmail.optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: Bob, If you remove the “numeric” the result is “2,3,4,6,a”. To me this implies that ASCII values are used as the sortKey. But that begs the issue why, as in your post, with “numeric” included, the “a” appears first. What makes the “a” a lower "numeric" value than “2”? Craig > On Sep 7, 2023, at 11:19 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > put "4,2,a,3,6" into tList;sort items of tList numeric ascending;put tList From brian at milby7.com Thu Sep 7 12:02:02 2023 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2023 12:02:02 -0400 Subject: sort bug In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It seems the error/bug is related to the error being in the last value. If you were to change the bug report to sort on the field itself, then the sort is performed but the answer does not execute. If you clicked the button again, then the answer does show. If you revert to the saved stack and add a valid value after the bad one, the answer works as expected with the bad value being first. Brian Milby brian at milby7.com > On Sep 6, 2023, at 10:31 PM, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode wrote: > > From the original email: > > If the function myVal encounters a run-time error (in the example if one of > the items is not a number) the sort command fails silently: the script > exits at that code line and the user is unaware that the sort (and the rest > of the handler) were not executed. > > > To be clear: the above is NOT what I'm seeing. Mark W says in the bug > report: > > The 'sort ... by ...' command has always allowed the by expression to be > fault tolerant - if evaluating it generates a runtime error then the sort > key for that element is just taken to be the original element. > > And that is what I'm seeing. For example, this code does not exit -- it > displays the answer dialog as if nothing out of the ordinary has happened: > > on mouseUp > sort lines of fld 1 numeric by sortVal(each) > answer "done" > end mouseUp > > function sortVal S > return item 2 of S + item 3 of S > end sortVal > > It seems to be sorting as Mark described: when the function fails, the > whole line is used for the sort. And that "fallback to the whole value > needs better documentation, and could lead to some truly dismal debugging > situations, but it doesn't seem like a bug to me. > > The original report, if I were able to replicate it, would clearly be a bug. > >> On Sat, Sep 2, 2023 at 8:19 PM neville smythe via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >> Geoff Canyon wrote (after a bravura display of how many different >> ways there are to do things in LC!) : >> >> And the function sort also sorts based on a negative infinity value >> for >> >> errors. I'm not sure I'd consider that a bug. >> >> Hmm. I would. The sortKey function should tolerate any sort of >> run-time error? But anyway that's not the issue. The bug I see is that >> the sort command exits its containing handler - actually I presume the >> sortKey function exits to top - without throwing an error, so nothing >> beyond that line is executed. This creates a very difficult problem >> to track down, since the code appears to be executing correctly, until >> something falls over or a file gets corrupted much later because some >> stuff never happened. >> >> Of course one should always validate data, particularly if it's not >> your own data. In this case it was my own data! Moreover I had thought >> I had checked for invalid cases, just hadn't checked all possible >> kinds of invalid data (the sortKey was rather more complicated than >> the one I used for illustration). >> >> Neville >> >> ------------------------- >> Email sent using Optus Webmail >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Sep 7 12:20:51 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2023 16:20:51 +0000 Subject: sort bug In-Reply-To: References: <05140c1e777df65d8eddac9079e80d0e1350d3b7@webmail.optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <82F96605-B21F-4B99-AC44-E9CB1116C012@iotecdigital.com> I think it is putting all non-numeric values first as unsortable, then the sortable items next. This seems to be the case because: put "b,4,2,a,3,6" into tList;sort items of tList numeric ascending;put tList Results in: b,a,2,3,4,6 This implies that the non-numeric items are not being sorted at all, just shuttled to the front of the line. Bob S > On Sep 7, 2023, at 8:46 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: > > Bob, > > If you remove the “numeric” the result is “2,3,4,6,a”. > > To me this implies that ASCII values are used as the sortKey. But that begs the issue why, as in your post, with “numeric” included, the “a” appears first. What makes the “a” a lower "numeric" value than “2”? > > Craig > >> On Sep 7, 2023, at 11:19 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: >> >> put "4,2,a,3,6" into tList;sort items of tList numeric ascending;put tList From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Sep 7 12:24:56 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2023 16:24:56 +0000 Subject: sort bug In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5C932A3A-0281-48E7-87B5-1BAA53FF0B7E@iotecdigital.com> I’ve always thought that an operator like “a list of…” might be handy. In this case a list of integers, so you could check to see if the list you want to sort is a valid list of integers. Bob S On Sep 7, 2023, at 9:02 AM, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote: It seems the error/bug is related to the error being in the last value. If you were to change the bug report to sort on the field itself, then the sort is performed but the answer does not execute. If you clicked the button again, then the answer does show. If you revert to the saved stack and add a valid value after the bad one, the answer works as expected with the bad value being first. Brian Milby brian at milby7.com On Sep 6, 2023, at 10:31 PM, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode > wrote: From the original email: If the function myVal encounters a run-time error (in the example if one of the items is not a number) the sort command fails silently: the script exits at that code line and the user is unaware that the sort (and the rest of the handler) were not executed. To be clear: the above is NOT what I'm seeing. Mark W says in the bug report: The 'sort ... by ...' command has always allowed the by expression to be fault tolerant - if evaluating it generates a runtime error then the sort key for that element is just taken to be the original element. And that is what I'm seeing. For example, this code does not exit -- it displays the answer dialog as if nothing out of the ordinary has happened: on mouseUp sort lines of fld 1 numeric by sortVal(each) answer "done" end mouseUp function sortVal S return item 2 of S + item 3 of S end sortVal It seems to be sorting as Mark described: when the function fails, the whole line is used for the sort. And that "fallback to the whole value needs better documentation, and could lead to some truly dismal debugging situations, but it doesn't seem like a bug to me. The original report, if I were able to replicate it, would clearly be a bug. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Sep 7 13:50:53 2023 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2023 17:50:53 +0000 Subject: Responsive Layout and Opencard Message-ID: <20230907175053.Horde._Wx0hTTNxJfim52kf_Jbebl@hub.4wsys.com> James wrote: > Is it my imagination or does using the responsive layout on a card  > trap the opencard message?   I haven't used that widget, but I would imagine any moving/resizing of controls would be triggered by the resizeStack message, which on mobile is also sent when a stack opens.   Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems   From ludovic.thebault at laposte.net Thu Sep 7 14:43:22 2023 From: ludovic.thebault at laposte.net (Ludovic THEBAULT) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2023 20:43:22 +0200 Subject: Install app on iOS 9 : still possible ? Message-ID: <83784E26-817A-4984-8C02-8930AEA018C0@laposte.net> Hello, I’ve 2 iPad 2. I want to make some little app for my school. With Livecode 9.6.10, apps are not compatible. Which version of Livecode can be used to create compatible apps? Thanks. From benr_mc at cogapp.com Thu Sep 7 17:02:58 2023 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2023 22:02:58 +0100 Subject: OAuth2 broken in LC 10 (dp6) Message-ID: <446f143f-c7b2-92b4-d5f4-ac047d253d18@cogapp.com> Am I doing something wrong, or is OAuth2 broken in LC 10? (Using dp6, but also true of dp5). When I call OAuth2, it attempts to open a link in my default browser, instead of in a sheet on the stack. This doesn't display anything. Same stack works fine in 9.6.10 and all earlier versions I've tried, opening a sheet which correctly allows me to authorise, logging in as necessary. This is on Mac, in the IDE, on macOS 12.6.7. I'm not sure if this something to do with https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23767. Can anyone confirm, before I bugzilla it? TIA, Ben From monte.goulding at livecode.com Thu Sep 7 18:39:40 2023 From: monte.goulding at livecode.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2023 08:39:40 +1000 Subject: OAuth2 broken in LC 10 (dp6) In-Reply-To: <446f143f-c7b2-92b4-d5f4-ac047d253d18@cogapp.com> References: <446f143f-c7b2-92b4-d5f4-ac047d253d18@cogapp.com> Message-ID: <091C2E9B-9096-4199-B4C9-9C4FABF2B316@livecode.com> Hi Ben Launching the url in the default browser is by design as it is a required change to conform to RFC 8252. The notion being the user’s default browser is trusted not to record entered credentials while web views presented in apps don’t have that trust. There are notes on this breaking change in the release notes. Could you please create a bug report. It sounds like there’s some issue with the formation of the authorisation url or parameters we are attempting to launch in the browser. If you could include the parameters you are using in the report along with it that would be most helpful. Just change the client id and secret so it is different but conforms to the same pattern as you are using. If you can launch the url in your browser and copy the url the browser is trying to open that would be helpful but we can do that once we have the parameters. Thanks Monte > On 8 Sep 2023, at 7:02 am, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode wrote: > > Am I doing something wrong, or is OAuth2 broken in LC 10? (Using dp6, but also true of dp5). > > When I call OAuth2, it attempts to open a link in my default browser, instead of in a sheet on the stack. This doesn't display anything. > > Same stack works fine in 9.6.10 and all earlier versions I've tried, opening a sheet which correctly allows me to authorise, logging in as necessary. > > This is on Mac, in the IDE, on macOS 12.6.7. > > I'm not sure if this something to do with https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23767. > > Can anyone confirm, before I bugzilla it? > > TIA, > > Ben > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From james at thehales.id.au Fri Sep 8 02:51:19 2023 From: james at thehales.id.au (James Hale) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2023 16:51:19 +1000 Subject: Responsive Layout and Opencard (James At The Hales) Message-ID: <1C116E80-3DDA-4D53-A9A1-C9F097418D9F@thehales.id.au> Never mind, my error. James From benr_mc at cogapp.com Fri Sep 8 13:12:56 2023 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2023 18:12:56 +0100 Subject: OAuth2 broken in LC 10 (dp6) In-Reply-To: <091C2E9B-9096-4199-B4C9-9C4FABF2B316@livecode.com> References: <446f143f-c7b2-92b4-d5f4-ac047d253d18@cogapp.com> <091C2E9B-9096-4199-B4C9-9C4FABF2B316@livecode.com> Message-ID: <71e9fdc1-c245-d71b-f5d7-23b0ec7c5ee8@cogapp.com> Thanks Monte: https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=24334 Ben On 07/09/2023 23:39, Monte Goulding via use-livecode wrote: > Hi Ben > > Launching the url in the default browser is by design as it is a required change to conform to RFC 8252. The notion being the users default browser is trusted not to record entered credentials while web views presented in apps dont have that trust. There are notes on this breaking change in the release notes. > > Could you please create a bug report. It sounds like theres some issue with the formation of the authorisation url or parameters we are attempting to launch in the browser. If you could include the parameters you are using in the report along with it that would be most helpful. Just change the client id and secret so it is different but conforms to the same pattern as you are using. If you can launch the url in your browser and copy the url the browser is trying to open that would be helpful but we can do that once we have the parameters. > > Thanks > > Monte > >> On 8 Sep 2023, at 7:02 am, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Am I doing something wrong, or is OAuth2 broken in LC 10? (Using dp6, but also true of dp5). >> >> When I call OAuth2, it attempts to open a link in my default browser, instead of in a sheet on the stack. This doesn't display anything. >> >> Same stack works fine in 9.6.10 and all earlier versions I've tried, opening a sheet which correctly allows me to authorise, logging in as necessary. >> >> This is on Mac, in the IDE, on macOS 12.6.7. >> >> I'm not sure if this something to do with https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23767. >> >> Can anyone confirm, before I bugzilla it? >> >> TIA, >> >> Ben >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From klaus at major-k.de Thu Sep 14 06:02:36 2023 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2023 12:02:36 +0200 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) Message-ID: <5E689E51-B89F-4FF0-B934-009BC72D54F1@major-k.de> Hi all, yesterday it* happened again! *Around one of twenty times I start my app on my Samsung tablet, I get a black screen. I started the tablet, opened my app -> OK quit the app and started again -> OK quit the app and started again -> OK quit the app and attached my USB footswitch started the app -> BLACK SCREEN That also happens without the attached footswitch Then I took Jacque's advice and waited a bit and after about 30 seconds I got the "Application not responding" alter with two options: -> Close app -> Wait So I clicked "Quit" and could start the app anew without any problem! I am really wondering why this happens?! On the first card there are just two polygrids with < 10 entries each, loaded "on openstack" on the fly from the folders and files in the resources folder See screenshot here: (Ordner = folders) NO PDF is loaded yet! NO resizestack message, this is just for me and my tablet. NO "accelerated rendering" set for the stack Any hints very welcome, not sure if I should open a bug report, since this only happens from time to time, about 1 of twenty app starts. macOS 12.6.9, LC 9.6.10, Android 8.1, Android API 33 Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From klaus at major-k.de Thu Sep 14 07:01:26 2023 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2023 13:01:26 +0200 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) Message-ID: <70A99081-163E-4924-BFF6-5CF496F9908C@major-k.de> Hi all, yesterday it* happened again! *Around one of twenty times I start my app on my Samsung tablet, I get a black screen. I started the tablet, opened my app -> OK quit the app and started again -> OK quit the app and started again -> OK quit the app and attached my USB footswitch started the app -> BLACK SCREEN That also happens without the attached footswitch Then I took Jacque's advice and waited a bit and after about 30 seconds I got the "Application not responding" alter with two options: -> Close app -> Wait So I clicked "Quit" and could start the app anew without any problem! I am really wondering why this happens?! On the first card there are just two polygrids with < 10 entries each, loaded "on openstack" on the fly from the folders and files in the resources folder See screenshot here: (Ordner = folders) NO PDF is loaded yet! NO resizestack message, this is just for me and my tablet. NO "accelerated rendering" set for the stack Any hints very welcome, not sure if I should open a bug report, since this only happens from time to time, about 1 of twenty app starts. macOS 12.6.9, LC 9.6.10, Android 8.1, Android API 33 Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Thu Sep 14 13:20:24 2023 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2023 13:20:24 -0400 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <70A99081-163E-4924-BFF6-5CF496F9908C@major-k.de> References: <70A99081-163E-4924-BFF6-5CF496F9908C@major-k.de> Message-ID: <000001d9e72f$c296c440$47c44cc0$@net> Klaus, Get a logcat after a crash and see if Panos can glean anything useful from it. It helped me once identifying and getting a crash fix implemented. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Klaus major-k via use-livecode Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2023 7:01 AM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Klaus major-k Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) Hi all, yesterday it* happened again! *Around one of twenty times I start my app on my Samsung tablet, I get a black screen. I started the tablet, opened my app -> OK quit the app and started again -> OK quit the app and started again -> OK quit the app and attached my USB footswitch started the app -> BLACK SCREEN That also happens without the attached footswitch Then I took Jacque's advice and waited a bit and after about 30 seconds I got the "Application not responding" alter with two options: -> Close app -> Wait So I clicked "Quit" and could start the app anew without any problem! I am really wondering why this happens?! On the first card there are just two polygrids with < 10 entries each, loaded "on openstack" on the fly from the folders and files in the resources folder See screenshot here: (Ordner = folders) NO PDF is loaded yet! NO resizestack message, this is just for me and my tablet. NO "accelerated rendering" set for the stack Any hints very welcome, not sure if I should open a bug report, since this only happens from time to time, about 1 of twenty app starts. macOS 12.6.9, LC 9.6.10, Android 8.1, Android API 33 Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From klaus at major-k.de Thu Sep 14 13:23:46 2023 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2023 19:23:46 +0200 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <000001d9e72f$c296c440$47c44cc0$@net> References: <70A99081-163E-4924-BFF6-5CF496F9908C@major-k.de> <000001d9e72f$c296c440$47c44cc0$@net> Message-ID: Hi Ralph, > Am 14.09.2023 um 19:20 schrieb Ralph DiMola via use-livecode : > > Klaus, > > Get a logcat after a crash and where can I possibly find one on my tablet? > and see if Panos can glean anything useful from > it. It helped me once identifying and getting a crash fix implemented. > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf > Of Klaus major-k via use-livecode > Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2023 7:01 AM > To: How to use LiveCode > Cc: Klaus major-k > Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) > > Hi all, > > yesterday it* happened again! > > *Around one of twenty times I start my app on my Samsung tablet, I get a > black screen. > > I started the tablet, opened my app -> OK quit the app and started again -> > OK quit the app and started again -> OK quit the app and attached my USB > footswitch started the app -> BLACK SCREEN That also happens without the > attached footswitch > > Then I took Jacque's advice and waited a bit and after about > 30 seconds I got the "Application not responding" alter with two options: > -> Close app > -> Wait > > So I clicked "Quit" and could start the app anew without any problem! > > I am really wondering why this happens?! > > On the first card there are just two polygrids with < 10 entries each, > loaded "on openstack" on the fly from the folders and files in the resources > folder See screenshot here: > ?rlkey=09o2ljter5hramdhv3gm5x786&dl=0> > (Ordner = folders) > NO PDF is loaded yet! > NO resizestack message, this is just for me and my tablet. > NO "accelerated rendering" set for the stack > > Any hints very welcome, not sure if I should open a bug report, since this > only happens from time to time, about 1 of twenty app starts. > > macOS 12.6.9, LC 9.6.10, Android 8.1, Android API 33 Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Thu Sep 14 13:43:09 2023 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2023 13:43:09 -0400 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: References: <70A99081-163E-4924-BFF6-5CF496F9908C@major-k.de> <000001d9e72f$c296c440$47c44cc0$@net> Message-ID: <000401d9e732$effa4e40$cfeeeac0$@net> Klaus, You need to get it using a command prompt via USB. Connect device. Open command prompt. In the android SDK platform-tools folder... Steps: 1) Clear the log 2) Get you app to crash 3) Get a log ADB commands below: ADB logcat -c Now run your app till crash ADB logcat The log can be piped to a file. In windows it's ADB logcat > somefile.txt The logcat will keep running so on windows a ctrl C will terminate. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Klaus major-k via use-livecode Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2023 1:24 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Klaus major-k Subject: Re: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) Hi Ralph, > Am 14.09.2023 um 19:20 schrieb Ralph DiMola via use-livecode : > > Klaus, > > Get a logcat after a crash and where can I possibly find one on my tablet? > and see if Panos can glean anything useful from it. It helped me once > identifying and getting a crash fix implemented. > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On > Behalf Of Klaus major-k via use-livecode > Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2023 7:01 AM > To: How to use LiveCode > Cc: Klaus major-k > Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) > > Hi all, > > yesterday it* happened again! > > *Around one of twenty times I start my app on my Samsung tablet, I get > a black screen. > > I started the tablet, opened my app -> OK quit the app and started > again -> OK quit the app and started again -> OK quit the app and > attached my USB footswitch started the app -> BLACK SCREEN That also > happens without the attached footswitch > > Then I took Jacque's advice and waited a bit and after about > 30 seconds I got the "Application not responding" alter with two options: > -> Close app > -> Wait > > So I clicked "Quit" and could start the app anew without any problem! > > I am really wondering why this happens?! > > On the first card there are just two polygrids with < 10 entries each, > loaded "on openstack" on the fly from the folders and files in the > resources folder See screenshot here: > _1.png ?rlkey=09o2ljter5hramdhv3gm5x786&dl=0> > (Ordner = folders) > NO PDF is loaded yet! > NO resizestack message, this is just for me and my tablet. > NO "accelerated rendering" set for the stack > > Any hints very welcome, not sure if I should open a bug report, since > this only happens from time to time, about 1 of twenty app starts. > > macOS 12.6.9, LC 9.6.10, Android 8.1, Android API 33 Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From klaus at major-k.de Thu Sep 14 13:49:46 2023 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2023 19:49:46 +0200 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <000401d9e732$effa4e40$cfeeeac0$@net> References: <70A99081-163E-4924-BFF6-5CF496F9908C@major-k.de> <000001d9e72f$c296c440$47c44cc0$@net> <000401d9e732$effa4e40$cfeeeac0$@net> Message-ID: <7A8818BC-3134-429B-9088-01B136815800@major-k.de> Hi Ralph, > Am 14.09.2023 um 19:43 schrieb Ralph DiMola via use-livecode : > > Klaus, > > You need to get it using a command prompt via USB. Connect device. Open > command prompt. In the android SDK platform-tools folder... Steps: > > 1) Clear the log > 2) Get you app to crash > 3) Get a log > > ADB commands below: > > ADB logcat -c > Now run your app till crash > ADB logcat > > The log can be piped to a file. > In windows it's > ADB logcat > somefile.txt > The logcat will keep running so on windows a ctrl C will terminate. OK, thank you. But I'm using a Mac and it looks like that tool is not available here in the SDK tools folder. Maybe available somewhere in "Android Studio". And my problem NEVER happened when I'm at home, only during band rehearsals and gigs! :-D > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Sep 14 14:03:43 2023 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2023 13:03:43 -0500 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <000001d9e72f$c296c440$47c44cc0$@net> References: <70A99081-163E-4924-BFF6-5CF496F9908C@major-k.de> <000001d9e72f$c296c440$47c44cc0$@net> Message-ID: <18a94dcf418.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> He's not crashing, it's a hang. I can't remember if logcat shows those. My guess is that it's a memory problem since he's running a very old version of Android with not much RAM, and restarting the app may force retained apps to release RAM. But a log can't hurt at any rate. Klaus, remove all unnecessary widgets from your home screen(s). Also go through all the apps in settings and disable or delete any you don't use. Android will not allow you to do that for required apps so if the buttons are enabled then it's safe. Most devices come with a lot of bloatware that runs in the background and uses memory. Widgets are especially bad at that. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On September 14, 2023 12:21:15 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote: > Get a logcat after a crash and see if Panos can glean anything useful from > it. It helped me once identifying and getting a crash fix implemented. From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Thu Sep 14 14:16:21 2023 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2023 14:16:21 -0400 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <18a94dcf418.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <70A99081-163E-4924-BFF6-5CF496F9908C@major-k.de> <000001d9e72f$c296c440$47c44cc0$@net> <18a94dcf418.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <000501d9e737$936c5bf0$ba4513d0$@net> I was thinking that if it's indeed a hang it would show how far the app activation proceeded before the hang. Maybe that would help/confirm that this is indeed a hang or crash. Just a thought Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2023 2:04 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: J. Landman Gay Subject: RE: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) He's not crashing, it's a hang. I can't remember if logcat shows those. My guess is that it's a memory problem since he's running a very old version of Android with not much RAM, and restarting the app may force retained apps to release RAM. But a log can't hurt at any rate. Klaus, remove all unnecessary widgets from your home screen(s). Also go through all the apps in settings and disable or delete any you don't use. Android will not allow you to do that for required apps so if the buttons are enabled then it's safe. Most devices come with a lot of bloatware that runs in the background and uses memory. Widgets are especially bad at that. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On September 14, 2023 12:21:15 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote: > Get a logcat after a crash and see if Panos can glean anything useful from > it. It helped me once identifying and getting a crash fix implemented. _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Thu Sep 14 14:21:08 2023 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2023 14:21:08 -0400 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <7A8818BC-3134-429B-9088-01B136815800@major-k.de> References: <70A99081-163E-4924-BFF6-5CF496F9908C@major-k.de> <000001d9e72f$c296c440$47c44cc0$@net> <000401d9e732$effa4e40$cfeeeac0$@net> <7A8818BC-3134-429B-9088-01B136815800@major-k.de> Message-ID: <000601d9e738$3eacd800$bc068800$@net> It should be there. It's not in the tools folder it's in the "platform-tools" folder. Clear the logcat before you go to practice then after you get home after a hang/crash do the logcat. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Klaus major-k via use-livecode Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2023 1:50 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Klaus major-k Subject: Re: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) Hi Ralph, > Am 14.09.2023 um 19:43 schrieb Ralph DiMola via use-livecode : > > Klaus, > > You need to get it using a command prompt via USB. Connect device. > Open command prompt. In the android SDK platform-tools folder... Steps: > > 1) Clear the log > 2) Get you app to crash > 3) Get a log > > ADB commands below: > > ADB logcat -c > Now run your app till crash > ADB logcat > > The log can be piped to a file. > In windows it's > ADB logcat > somefile.txt > The logcat will keep running so on windows a ctrl C will terminate. OK, thank you. But I'm using a Mac and it looks like that tool is not available here in the SDK tools folder. Maybe available somewhere in "Android Studio". And my problem NEVER happened when I'm at home, only during band rehearsals and gigs! :-D > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From klaus at major-k.de Fri Sep 15 03:52:45 2023 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 09:52:45 +0200 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <18a94dcf418.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <70A99081-163E-4924-BFF6-5CF496F9908C@major-k.de> <000001d9e72f$c296c440$47c44cc0$@net> <18a94dcf418.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <86B0BBD3-9BA2-4268-B404-BA895697AC5E@major-k.de> Hi all, > Am 14.09.2023 um 20:03 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode : > > He's not crashing, it's a hang. I can't remember if logcat shows those. > My guess is that it's a memory problem since he's running a very old version of Android with not much RAM, it is a Galaxy Tab A (2016) with 2 GB RAM and 32 GB hd (or SSD?) running Android 8.1. So the LC Android engine is a bit RAM "hungry"? Or are the new widgets like PolyGrid? Strange, I have another LC app installed on my Samsung Galaxy J7 (2016) cell phone with 2 GB of RAM and 16 GB HD which never ever crashed or hung in the last year? > and restarting the app may force retained apps to release RAM. But a log can't hurt at any rate. > > Klaus, remove all unnecessary widgets from your home screen(s). Also go through all the apps in settings and disable or delete any you don't use. Android will not allow you to do that for required apps so if the buttons are enabled then it's safe. Most devices come with a lot of bloatware that runs in the background and uses memory. Widgets are especially bad at that. I already disabled and deleted everything that could be disabled and deleted, since I exclusivley (sic!) use the tablet to display sheet music. Therefore I really wonder why this does not happen more often? Will try to check the "logcat", when this will happen the next time. Thanks for all hints so far. > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > On September 14, 2023 12:21:15 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote: > >> Get a logcat after a crash and see if Panos can glean anything useful from >> it. It helped me once identifying and getting a crash fix implemented. Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From mark at livecode.com Fri Sep 15 06:14:19 2023 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 11:14:19 +0100 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <7A8818BC-3134-429B-9088-01B136815800@major-k.de> References: <70A99081-163E-4924-BFF6-5CF496F9908C@major-k.de> <000001d9e72f$c296c440$47c44cc0$@net> <000401d9e732$effa4e40$cfeeeac0$@net> <7A8818BC-3134-429B-9088-01B136815800@major-k.de> Message-ID: <910a9f9df07d72acf53526aa91fcce24@livecode.com> On 2023-09-14 18:49, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > But I'm using a Mac and it looks like that tool is not available here > in the SDK tools folder. > Maybe available somewhere in "Android Studio". > > And my problem NEVER happened when I'm at home, only during band > rehearsals and gigs! :-D So this is perhaps the most useful observation... This could suggest there is a either a difference in usage, or environment between the two places. e.g. - is the app used more / for longer at gigs compared to home? - how is the tablet powered at home vs at gigs? - how does the tablet connect to the internet at home vs at gigs? (even if the app does not use the internet, lots of background stuff on Android *does*) - when the problem happens is there anything specific you can think of in common with what you were doing / the app was doing / the device was doing just before? (e.g. does it happen just after the device has gone to sleep). The fact it is 'hanging' suggests there is something (on startup?) which is failing and causing an infinite loop. Is there anything in the startup code for the app which waits for something to happen? e.g. an network request, something to initialize etc.? Warmest Regards, Mark. P.S. If you send your app's source to support at livecode.com with a rough outline of where to look for startup code etc. then Panos and I can take a quick look and see if we can see anything which may be causing your issue. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Build Amazing Things From klaus at major-k.de Fri Sep 15 06:34:01 2023 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 12:34:01 +0200 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <910a9f9df07d72acf53526aa91fcce24@livecode.com> References: <70A99081-163E-4924-BFF6-5CF496F9908C@major-k.de> <000001d9e72f$c296c440$47c44cc0$@net> <000401d9e732$effa4e40$cfeeeac0$@net> <7A8818BC-3134-429B-9088-01B136815800@major-k.de> <910a9f9df07d72acf53526aa91fcce24@livecode.com> Message-ID: <65E378B1-9BBA-48B0-A81B-DE2AEF2786E9@major-k.de> Hi Mark, > Am 15.09.2023 um 12:14 schrieb Mark Waddingham via use-livecode : > > On 2023-09-14 18:49, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >> But I'm using a Mac and it looks like that tool is not available here in the SDK tools folder. >> Maybe available somewhere in "Android Studio". >> And my problem NEVER happened when I'm at home, only during band rehearsals and gigs! :-D > So this is perhaps the most useful observation... :-) > This could suggest there is a either a difference in usage, or environment between the two places. e.g. > - is the app used more / for longer at gigs compared to home? Yes. > - how is the tablet powered at home vs at gigs? Via its internal rechargable battery, will recharge it overnight with no connection to my Mac. > - how does the tablet connect to the internet at home vs at gigs? (even if the app does not use the internet, lots of background stuff on Android *does*) At home via W-Lan, at gigs no internet connection (no SIM card or something!) > - when the problem happens is there anything specific you can think of in common with what you were doing / the app was doing / the device was doing just before? (e.g. does it happen just after the device has gone to sleep). No, sometimes I get the black screen immediately when I start the tablet at a gig or rehearsal, sometimes after several quit/start of the app. > The fact it is 'hanging' suggests there is something (on startup?) which is failing and causing an infinite loop. Nothing remarkable here, I only fill the two polygrids (< 10 entries each) on the first card on preopenstack. > Is there anything in the startup code for the app which waits for something to happen? e.g. an network request, something to initialize etc.? No, nada, just what I wrote above. > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > > P.S. If you send your app's source to support at livecode.com with a rough outline of where to look for startup code etc. then Panos and I can take a quick look and see if we can see anything which may be causing your issue. Great, thanks, will remove all unneccessary files and will send it with some instructions. > -- > Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Build Amazing Things Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com Fri Sep 15 10:30:41 2023 From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 16:30:41 +0200 Subject: Your scripts as a flowchart Message-ID: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> Hi all! Those frequenting the forums may have seen this already, but I thought I'd share it here too now: If you want to see a graphic map of the inter-relations of all the handlers in the scripts of your LiveCode projects, my tool ScriptDependencies now features an extremely cool flowchart output (using the Mermaid javascript lib). Here’s an example of how a script flowchart can look: https://wheninspace.com/browseranimation/WIS_ScriptDependencies_example.png A few easy steps to test it on your own scripts: 1) Download ScriptDependencies here: https://github.com/wheninspace/WIS_ScriptDepedencies/releases/latest 2) Open the stack, click the top left cog wheel and add at least one stack (that has at least some handlers calling other handlers) to a project. 3) Close the project pane and click "Start mapping and analysis”. 4) Click ”Create flowchart”. Boom! :) On Mac, the browser widget can display the flowchart in-stack, enabling some interactivity (click a node to highlight the arrows to and from it). On Windows and Linux, where the browser widget has, er... room for improvement…, the flowchart is instead displayed in an external browser window (minus interactivity). My intention with ScriptDependencies is to provide a code analysis and live documentation tool (of some kind) for LiveCode projects. I need it myself for some big LC projects, and thought it might be useful also for other LC devs. The tool has been thoroughly tested by LC veterans like bn (Bernd), jacque (Jacqueline) and mwieder (Mike), who have all provided invaluable feedback and improvement suggestions, bringing the tool up to quite a professional level. I hope you’ll find use for it - or at least enjoy seeing your scripts presented as a bouquet of flowers, a piece of art! :) Any feedback is very welcome! /Andreas From marksmithhfx at gmail.com Fri Sep 15 10:46:06 2023 From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 15:46:06 +0100 Subject: Your scripts as a flowchart In-Reply-To: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> References: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5D161B5C-3186-4B1D-AEF0-936CD7F73B0F@gmail.com> Very cool Andreas. I look forward to trying this out. Mark > On 15 Sep 2023, at 3:30 pm, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi all! > > Those frequenting the forums may have seen this already, but I thought I'd share it here too now: > > If you want to see a graphic map of the inter-relations of all the handlers in the scripts of your LiveCode projects, my tool ScriptDependencies now features an extremely cool flowchart output (using the Mermaid javascript lib). > > Here’s an example of how a script flowchart can look: > https://wheninspace.com/browseranimation/WIS_ScriptDependencies_example.png > > A few easy steps to test it on your own scripts: > > 1) Download ScriptDependencies here: > https://github.com/wheninspace/WIS_ScriptDepedencies/releases/latest > > 2) Open the stack, click the top left cog wheel and add at least one stack (that has at least some handlers calling other handlers) to a project. > 3) Close the project pane and click "Start mapping and analysis”. > 4) Click ”Create flowchart”. Boom! :) > > On Mac, the browser widget can display the flowchart in-stack, enabling some interactivity (click a node to highlight the arrows to and from it). > On Windows and Linux, where the browser widget has, er... room for improvement…, the flowchart is instead displayed in an external browser window (minus interactivity). > > My intention with ScriptDependencies is to provide a code analysis and live documentation tool (of some kind) for LiveCode projects. I need it myself for some big LC projects, and thought it might be useful also for other LC devs. > > The tool has been thoroughly tested by LC veterans like bn (Bernd), jacque (Jacqueline) and mwieder (Mike), who have all provided invaluable feedback and improvement suggestions, bringing the tool up to quite a professional level. > > I hope you’ll find use for it - or at least enjoy seeing your scripts presented as a bouquet of flowers, a piece of art! :) > > Any feedback is very welcome! > > /Andreas > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 15 11:20:18 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 15:20:18 +0000 Subject: Your scripts as a flowchart In-Reply-To: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> References: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> Message-ID: <6097681B-D78E-4D34-AFA2-E70CBDA397B7@iotecdigital.com> Very cool. I’ll give it a try. But whereas most people’s code will look like a bowl of spaghetti, mine will probably look like Whoppi Goldberg’s hair. Bob S > On Sep 15, 2023, at 7:30 AM, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi all! > > Those frequenting the forums may have seen this already, but I thought I'd share it here too now: > > If you want to see a graphic map of the inter-relations of all the handlers in the scripts of your LiveCode projects, my tool ScriptDependencies now features an extremely cool flowchart output (using the Mermaid javascript lib). > > Here’s an example of how a script flowchart can look: > https://wheninspace.com/browseranimation/WIS_ScriptDependencies_example.png > > A few easy steps to test it on your own scripts: > > 1) Download ScriptDependencies here: > https://github.com/wheninspace/WIS_ScriptDepedencies/releases/latest > > 2) Open the stack, click the top left cog wheel and add at least one stack (that has at least some handlers calling other handlers) to a project. > 3) Close the project pane and click "Start mapping and analysis”. > 4) Click ”Create flowchart”. Boom! :) > > On Mac, the browser widget can display the flowchart in-stack, enabling some interactivity (click a node to highlight the arrows to and from it). > On Windows and Linux, where the browser widget has, er... room for improvement…, the flowchart is instead displayed in an external browser window (minus interactivity). > > My intention with ScriptDependencies is to provide a code analysis and live documentation tool (of some kind) for LiveCode projects. I need it myself for some big LC projects, and thought it might be useful also for other LC devs. > > The tool has been thoroughly tested by LC veterans like bn (Bernd), jacque (Jacqueline) and mwieder (Mike), who have all provided invaluable feedback and improvement suggestions, bringing the tool up to quite a professional level. > > I hope you’ll find use for it - or at least enjoy seeing your scripts presented as a bouquet of flowers, a piece of art! :) > > Any feedback is very welcome! > > /Andreas > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ahsoftware at sonic.net Fri Sep 15 11:47:33 2023 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 08:47:33 -0700 Subject: Your scripts as a flowchart In-Reply-To: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> References: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2ee08412-4787-3013-01d2-a4a95c8d5e0a@sonic.net> Just want to add that Andreas has been super-responsive to suggestions re adding features and improving things and this tool has gone from being moderately useful to something I can't do without. And is a textbook example in how to incorporate a javascript library into LiveCode. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From irog at mac.com Fri Sep 15 12:07:05 2023 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 09:07:05 -0700 Subject: Your scripts as a flowchart In-Reply-To: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> References: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1B8231F6-92BA-47A4-854F-8958501AF23D@mac.com> Very cool! Thank you for sharing it, Andreas. Roger > On Sep 15, 2023, at 7:30 AM, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi all! > > Those frequenting the forums may have seen this already, but I thought I'd share it here too now: > > If you want to see a graphic map of the inter-relations of all the handlers in the scripts of your LiveCode projects, my tool ScriptDependencies now features an extremely cool flowchart output (using the Mermaid javascript lib). > > Here’s an example of how a script flowchart can look: > https://wheninspace.com/browseranimation/WIS_ScriptDependencies_example.png > > A few easy steps to test it on your own scripts: > > 1) Download ScriptDependencies here: > https://github.com/wheninspace/WIS_ScriptDepedencies/releases/latest > > 2) Open the stack, click the top left cog wheel and add at least one stack (that has at least some handlers calling other handlers) to a project. > 3) Close the project pane and click "Start mapping and analysis”. > 4) Click ”Create flowchart”. Boom! :) > > On Mac, the browser widget can display the flowchart in-stack, enabling some interactivity (click a node to highlight the arrows to and from it). > On Windows and Linux, where the browser widget has, er... room for improvement…, the flowchart is instead displayed in an external browser window (minus interactivity). > > My intention with ScriptDependencies is to provide a code analysis and live documentation tool (of some kind) for LiveCode projects. I need it myself for some big LC projects, and thought it might be useful also for other LC devs. > > The tool has been thoroughly tested by LC veterans like bn (Bernd), jacque (Jacqueline) and mwieder (Mike), who have all provided invaluable feedback and improvement suggestions, bringing the tool up to quite a professional level. > > I hope you’ll find use for it - or at least enjoy seeing your scripts presented as a bouquet of flowers, a piece of art! :) > > Any feedback is very welcome! > > /Andreas > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com Fri Sep 15 12:12:46 2023 From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 18:12:46 +0200 Subject: Your scripts as a flowchart In-Reply-To: <2ee08412-4787-3013-01d2-a4a95c8d5e0a@sonic.net> References: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> <2ee08412-4787-3013-01d2-a4a95c8d5e0a@sonic.net> Message-ID: <6CF00A35-1B64-4C5F-8492-E99FF5507926@gmail.com> Thanks, that’s great to hear, Mark! (And terribly sorry for the credit misnaming - it’s Mark! I’ll remember that now!) > 15 sep. 2023 kl. 17:47 skrev Mark Wieder via use-livecode : > > Just want to add that Andreas has been super-responsive to suggestions re adding features and improving things and this tool has gone from being moderately useful to something I can't do without. And is a textbook example in how to incorporate a javascript library into LiveCode. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 15 12:18:22 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 16:18:22 +0000 Subject: Your scripts as a flowchart In-Reply-To: <6CF00A35-1B64-4C5F-8492-E99FF5507926@gmail.com> References: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> <2ee08412-4787-3013-01d2-a4a95c8d5e0a@sonic.net> <6CF00A35-1B64-4C5F-8492-E99FF5507926@gmail.com> Message-ID: I was gonna say, I didn’t know he had a brother who was a LiveCoder too! Bob S > On Sep 15, 2023, at 9:12 AM, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode wrote: > > Thanks, that’s great to hear, Mark! (And terribly sorry for the credit misnaming - it’s Mark! I’ll remember that now!) > >> 15 sep. 2023 kl. 17:47 skrev Mark Wieder via use-livecode : >> >> Just want to add that Andreas has been super-responsive to suggestions re adding features and improving things and this tool has gone from being moderately useful to something I can't do without. And is a textbook example in how to incorporate a javascript library into LiveCode. >> >> -- >> Mark Wieder >> ahsoftware at gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org Fri Sep 15 13:03:58 2023 From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (William Prothero) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 10:03:58 -0700 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <65E378B1-9BBA-48B0-A81B-DE2AEF2786E9@major-k.de> References: <65E378B1-9BBA-48B0-A81B-DE2AEF2786E9@major-k.de> Message-ID: <2D38FE2A-05BA-43D7-BDB9-E25D275C1351@earthlearningsolutions.org> Klaus, Re sheet music display, I also display sheet music, mostly jazz. There's an app, very low cost, named igigbook that displays pdfs. If you're into jazz, you can get lots of real book music and there is even an addon for changing the key for some realbook songs. The trouble is, iGigbook is optimized for the Mac, so I'm not sure it would work for you. So, excuse me if my comment is irrelevant to your goal. Have fun, Bill William A. Prothero, PhD Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science University of California, Santa Barbara > On Sep 15, 2023, at 3:34 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Mark, > >> Am 15.09.2023 um 12:14 schrieb Mark Waddingham via use-livecode : >> >>> On 2023-09-14 18:49, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >>> But I'm using a Mac and it looks like that tool is not available here in the SDK tools folder. >>> Maybe available somewhere in "Android Studio". >>> And my problem NEVER happened when I'm at home, only during band rehearsals and gigs! :-D >> So this is perhaps the most useful observation... > > :-) > >> This could suggest there is a either a difference in usage, or environment between the two places. e.g. >> - is the app used more / for longer at gigs compared to home? > > Yes. > >> - how is the tablet powered at home vs at gigs? > > Via its internal rechargable battery, will recharge it overnight with no connection to my Mac. > >> - how does the tablet connect to the internet at home vs at gigs? (even if the app does not use the internet, lots of background stuff on Android *does*) > > At home via W-Lan, at gigs no internet connection (no SIM card or something!) > >> - when the problem happens is there anything specific you can think of in common with what you were doing / the app was doing / the device was doing just before? (e.g. does it happen just after the device has gone to sleep). > > No, sometimes I get the black screen immediately when I start the tablet at a gig or rehearsal, sometimes after several quit/start of the app. > >> The fact it is 'hanging' suggests there is something (on startup?) which is failing and causing an infinite loop. > > Nothing remarkable here, I only fill the two polygrids (< 10 entries each) on the first card on preopenstack. > >> Is there anything in the startup code for the app which waits for something to happen? e.g. an network request, something to initialize etc.? > > No, nada, just what I wrote above. > >> Warmest Regards, >> >> Mark. >> >> P.S. If you send your app's source to support at livecode.com with a rough outline of where to look for startup code etc. then Panos and I can take a quick look and see if we can see anything which may be causing your issue. > > Great, thanks, will remove all unneccessary files and will send it with some instructions. > >> -- >> Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ >> LiveCode: Build Amazing Things > > Best > > Klaus > > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > https://www.major-k.de/bass > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From klaus at major-k.de Fri Sep 15 13:13:36 2023 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 19:13:36 +0200 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <2D38FE2A-05BA-43D7-BDB9-E25D275C1351@earthlearningsolutions.org> References: <65E378B1-9BBA-48B0-A81B-DE2AEF2786E9@major-k.de> <2D38FE2A-05BA-43D7-BDB9-E25D275C1351@earthlearningsolutions.org> Message-ID: <3534B370-3CB4-4356-AE01-C123407D3A73@major-k.de> Hi Bill, > Am 15.09.2023 um 19:03 schrieb William Prothero via use-livecode : > > Klaus, > Re sheet music display, I also display sheet music, mostly jazz. There's an app, very low cost, named igigbook that displays pdfs. If you're into jazz, you can get lots of real book music and there is even an addon for changing the key for some realbook songs. > > The trouble is, iGigbook is optimized for the Mac, so I'm not sure it would work for you. So, excuse me if my comment is irrelevant to your goal. thank you for the hint. There is also an Android app of iGigbook! However, why buy something when you can do it by yourself, much more fun. My app does exactly (sic!) what I need. I also own "iReal Pro" for Mac which can output PDF if I need one and I also still own a printed version of the "Real Book I". :-) > Have fun, I definitively do! :-) > Bill > William A. Prothero, PhD > Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science > University of California, Santa Barbara Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From ahsoftware at sonic.net Fri Sep 15 14:26:21 2023 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 11:26:21 -0700 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <3534B370-3CB4-4356-AE01-C123407D3A73@major-k.de> References: <65E378B1-9BBA-48B0-A81B-DE2AEF2786E9@major-k.de> <2D38FE2A-05BA-43D7-BDB9-E25D275C1351@earthlearningsolutions.org> <3534B370-3CB4-4356-AE01-C123407D3A73@major-k.de> Message-ID: <7933bf4c-e74d-08cc-255f-2d9c4ed99452@sonic.net> On 9/15/23 10:13, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > I also own "iReal Pro" for Mac which can output PDF if I need one > and I also still own a printed version of the "Real Book I". :-) The only reason I have a 10" tablet is to run iRealPro on it. Hard to imagine doing without it. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From klaus at major-k.de Fri Sep 15 14:49:18 2023 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 20:49:18 +0200 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <7933bf4c-e74d-08cc-255f-2d9c4ed99452@sonic.net> References: <65E378B1-9BBA-48B0-A81B-DE2AEF2786E9@major-k.de> <2D38FE2A-05BA-43D7-BDB9-E25D275C1351@earthlearningsolutions.org> <3534B370-3CB4-4356-AE01-C123407D3A73@major-k.de> <7933bf4c-e74d-08cc-255f-2d9c4ed99452@sonic.net> Message-ID: <5B209DCA-0E6C-4D30-B8FA-067FA2F1BB1D@major-k.de> Hi Mark, > Am 15.09.2023 um 20:26 schrieb Mark Wieder via use-livecode : > On 9/15/23 10:13, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >> I also own "iReal Pro" for Mac which can output PDF if I need one >> and I also still own a printed version of the "Real Book I". :-) > The only reason I have a 10" tablet is to run iRealPro on it. > Hard to imagine doing without it. good boy! :-) > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org Fri Sep 15 14:56:05 2023 From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (William Prothero) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 11:56:05 -0700 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <5B209DCA-0E6C-4D30-B8FA-067FA2F1BB1D@major-k.de> References: <5B209DCA-0E6C-4D30-B8FA-067FA2F1BB1D@major-k.de> Message-ID: <23C5FB9A-C5AC-4B0F-ACE2-30375664FB73@earthlearningsolutions.org> Mark and Klaus, Wow, folks I didn't know were musicians! I use iReal Pro too. It's great for practice. And, easily transposes. But as a keyboard player, I use the notes of the tune to shape my solos. iReal Pro only has the chords. It's still useful, though. Best,🎶🎶🎶 Bill William A. Prothero, PhD Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science University of California, Santa Barbara > On Sep 15, 2023, at 11:50 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Mark, > >> Am 15.09.2023 um 20:26 schrieb Mark Wieder via use-livecode : >>> On 9/15/23 10:13, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >>> I also own "iReal Pro" for Mac which can output PDF if I need one >>> and I also still own a printed version of the "Real Book I". :-) >> The only reason I have a 10" tablet is to run iRealPro on it. >> Hard to imagine doing without it. > > good boy! :-) > >> -- >> Mark Wieder >> ahsoftware at gmail.com > > Best > > Klaus > > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > https://www.major-k.de/bass > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From tom at makeshyft.com Fri Sep 15 15:02:38 2023 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 15:02:38 -0400 Subject: Clipboard Copy Troubles? Message-ID: Heyall, Just wondering if anyone else has experienced issues where livecode stops being able to copy to the clipboard when using copy command from the menu or CTRL C or right click copy Specifically from within the script editor or a variable window. A LC restart seems to solve this temporarily. I've noticed this recently more than usual. On both mac and windows 11. Does this ring a bell to anyone? Thanks, Tom From ahsoftware at sonic.net Fri Sep 15 15:13:31 2023 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 12:13:31 -0700 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <23C5FB9A-C5AC-4B0F-ACE2-30375664FB73@earthlearningsolutions.org> References: <5B209DCA-0E6C-4D30-B8FA-067FA2F1BB1D@major-k.de> <23C5FB9A-C5AC-4B0F-ACE2-30375664FB73@earthlearningsolutions.org> Message-ID: <7beebee1-6cf3-76d5-009f-517297725b47@sonic.net> On 9/15/23 11:56, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote: > Mark and Klaus, > Wow, folks I didn't know were musicians! > I use iReal Pro too. It's great for practice. And, easily transposes. But as a keyboard player, I use the notes of the tune to shape my solos. iReal Pro only has the chords. It's still useful, though. OK - fair point about needing the notes. But as a bass player I'm usually more concerned with the horizontal movement of a tune. I have Real Books Vols 1,2,3 but that's a lot to carry to a gig. I use them at home and Band-in-a-box as well but for real-time improvising I find that iRealPro generally does the job. Or I can copy a page out of one of the Real Books and hope the wind doesn't carry it away . -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ahsoftware at sonic.net Fri Sep 15 15:15:27 2023 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 12:15:27 -0700 Subject: Clipboard Copy Troubles? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <97999ef1-7479-a5f9-03c3-7a68d1795488@sonic.net> On 9/15/23 12:02, Tom Glod via use-livecode wrote: > Heyall, > > Just wondering if anyone else has experienced issues where livecode stops > being able to copy to the clipboard when using copy command from the menu > or CTRL C or right click copy > Specifically from within the script editor or a variable window. > A LC restart seems to solve this temporarily. > I've noticed this recently more than usual. On both mac and windows 11. > > Does this ring a bell to anyone? Yep. I see this a lot. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From klaus at major-k.de Fri Sep 15 16:02:49 2023 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 22:02:49 +0200 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <23C5FB9A-C5AC-4B0F-ACE2-30375664FB73@earthlearningsolutions.org> References: <5B209DCA-0E6C-4D30-B8FA-067FA2F1BB1D@major-k.de> <23C5FB9A-C5AC-4B0F-ACE2-30375664FB73@earthlearningsolutions.org> Message-ID: <08FC6F1D-928D-485D-BF0F-D56030519BF7@major-k.de> Hi Bill, > Am 15.09.2023 um 20:56 schrieb William Prothero via use-livecode : > > Mark and Klaus, > Wow, folks I didn't know were musicians! take a look at my bass page, see signature. Lots of audio and video files. Don't worry, my site is in german and english. It is a bit outdated, but you'll get the picture. ;-) > I use iReal Pro too. It's great for practice. And, easily transposes. But as a keyboard player, I use the notes of the tune to shape my solos. iReal Pro only has the chords. It's still useful, though. Yep! > Best,🎶🎶🎶 > Bill Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Fri Sep 15 16:10:52 2023 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 16:10:52 -0400 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <23C5FB9A-C5AC-4B0F-ACE2-30375664FB73@earthlearningsolutions.org> References: <5B209DCA-0E6C-4D30-B8FA-067FA2F1BB1D@major-k.de> <23C5FB9A-C5AC-4B0F-ACE2-30375664FB73@earthlearningsolutions.org> Message-ID: <003201d9e810$bd72d300$38587900$@net> Does accordion count? Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of William Prothero via use-livecode Sent: Friday, September 15, 2023 2:56 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: William Prothero Subject: Re: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) Mark and Klaus, Wow, folks I didn't know were musicians! I use iReal Pro too. It's great for practice. And, easily transposes. But as a keyboard player, I use the notes of the tune to shape my solos. iReal Pro only has the chords. It's still useful, though. Best,🎶🎶 Bill William A. Prothero, PhD Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science University of California, Santa Barbara > On Sep 15, 2023, at 11:50 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Mark, > >> Am 15.09.2023 um 20:26 schrieb Mark Wieder via use-livecode : >>> On 9/15/23 10:13, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >>> I also own "iReal Pro" for Mac which can >>> output PDF if I need one and I also still own a printed version of >>> the "Real Book I". :-) >> The only reason I have a 10" tablet is to run iRealPro on it. >> Hard to imagine doing without it. > > good boy! :-) > >> -- >> Mark Wieder >> ahsoftware at gmail.com > > Best > > Klaus > > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > https://www.major-k.de/bass > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org Fri Sep 15 16:23:50 2023 From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (William Prothero) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 13:23:50 -0700 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <003201d9e810$bd72d300$38587900$@net> References: <003201d9e810$bd72d300$38587900$@net> Message-ID: Klaus, Very nice site and music. You're way above my skill level. I jam with friends a couple of times a week, but we are all retired and do it for fun and public performances are very rare. Best, Bill William A. Prothero, PhD Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science University of California, Santa Barbara > On Sep 15, 2023, at 1:11 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote: > > Does accordion count? > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of William Prothero via use-livecode > Sent: Friday, September 15, 2023 2:56 PM > To: How to use LiveCode > Cc: William Prothero > Subject: Re: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) > > Mark and Klaus, > Wow, folks I didn't know were musicians! > I use iReal Pro too. It's great for practice. And, easily transposes. But as a keyboard player, I use the notes of the tune to shape my solos. iReal Pro only has the chords. It's still useful, though. > > Best,🎶🎶 > Bill > > William A. Prothero, PhD > Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science > University of California, Santa Barbara > >> On Sep 15, 2023, at 11:50 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Hi Mark, >> >>> Am 15.09.2023 um 20:26 schrieb Mark Wieder via use-livecode : >>>>> On 9/15/23 10:13, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >>>>> I also own "iReal Pro" for Mac which can >>>>> output PDF if I need one and I also still own a printed version of >>>>> the "Real Book I". :-) >>> The only reason I have a 10" tablet is to run iRealPro on it. >>> Hard to imagine doing without it. >> >> good boy! :-) >> >>> -- >>> Mark Wieder >>> ahsoftware at gmail.com >> >> Best >> >> Klaus >> >> -- >> Klaus Major >> https://www.major-k.de >> https://www.major-k.de/bass >> klaus at major-k.de >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 15 16:46:56 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 20:46:56 +0000 Subject: Clipboard Copy Troubles? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Since I use my own menus, I had to create my own Edit menu. Here is the text of the edit menu and the scripting. This is actually a behavior I assign to all my Edit menu buttons. Replace the value for cHomeStack with the name of your own home stack. Note that you can add additional menu items to the text of the menu, then add a customMenuPick handler to the actual button script to process them. Cu&t/x &Copy/c &Paste/v C&lear/b Select &All/a - Settings... constant cHomeStack = "Forms Generator" on menuPick pItem put homeStack() into tMainStack put the selectedChunk into tChunk put value(tChunk) into tText put word -2 to -1 of tChunk into tTarget put the selectedObject into tRealTarget if word 1 of tTarget is "field" then put (the traversalOn of tTarget) and not (the locktext of tTarget) into tAllowEdits end if switch pItem case "Cut" if tText is not empty then \ set the clipboardData ["text"] to tText if tAllowEdits then put "put empty into" && tChunk into tCommand do tCommand end if break case "Copy" if tText is not empty then \ set the clipboardData ["text"] to tText break case "Paste" if tAllowEdits and the clipboardData ["text"] is not empty then \ put "put the clipboardData [text] into" && tChunk into tCommand do tCommand break case "Clear" if tAllowEdits then \ put "put empty into" && tChunk into tCommand do tCommand break case "Select All" try select char 1 to -1 of tTarget end try break case "Find" if there is a field "FindBar" then focus on field "FindBar" exit to top break case "Settings..." if there is a card "Settings" of stack me then go card "Settings" of stack me else go card "Settings" of stack homeStack() end if break default dispatch "customMenuPick" to me with pItem end switch pass menuPick end menuPick on customMenuPick pItem Return empty end customMenuPick getProp displayName -- code return "Sly Edits" end displayName function homeStack put "stack" && quote & cHomeStack & quote into tMainStack return tMainStack end homeStack > On Sep 15, 2023, at 12:02 PM, Tom Glod via use-livecode wrote: > > Heyall, > > Just wondering if anyone else has experienced issues where livecode stops > being able to copy to the clipboard when using copy command from the menu > or CTRL C or right click copy > Specifically from within the script editor or a variable window. > A LC restart seems to solve this temporarily. > I've noticed this recently more than usual. On both mac and windows 11. > > Does this ring a bell to anyone? > > Thanks, > > Tom > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From klaus at major-k.de Fri Sep 15 16:48:21 2023 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 22:48:21 +0200 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <003201d9e810$bd72d300$38587900$@net> References: <5B209DCA-0E6C-4D30-B8FA-067FA2F1BB1D@major-k.de> <23C5FB9A-C5AC-4B0F-ACE2-30375664FB73@earthlearningsolutions.org> <003201d9e810$bd72d300$38587900$@net> Message-ID: <8A467306-071C-48D8-9975-FD39C77F02C5@major-k.de> Hi Ralph, > Am 15.09.2023 um 22:10 schrieb Ralph DiMola via use-livecode : > > Does accordion count? it does! Since Al Yankowic... Just kiddin'. :-D > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of William Prothero via use-livecode > Sent: Friday, September 15, 2023 2:56 PM > To: How to use LiveCode > Cc: William Prothero > Subject: Re: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) > > Mark and Klaus, > Wow, folks I didn't know were musicians! > I use iReal Pro too. It's great for practice. And, easily transposes. But as a keyboard player, I use the notes of the tune to shape my solos. iReal Pro only has the chords. It's still useful, though. > > Best,🎶🎶 > Bill Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 15 16:50:21 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 20:50:21 +0000 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <23C5FB9A-C5AC-4B0F-ACE2-30375664FB73@earthlearningsolutions.org> References: <5B209DCA-0E6C-4D30-B8FA-067FA2F1BB1D@major-k.de> <23C5FB9A-C5AC-4B0F-ACE2-30375664FB73@earthlearningsolutions.org> Message-ID: <53068E58-8269-4ADF-A4D0-64F134111979@iotecdigital.com> I used to be a musician until I looked up one day and discovered that no one was listening. I guess people got used to the idea that music was just supposed to be background noise, and so they treated live musicians the same way. You see it in bars with live bands all the time. That is why I try to pay special attention to live bands and applaud loudly between every song. Unless they suck. ;-) Bob S > On Sep 15, 2023, at 11:56 AM, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote: > > Mark and Klaus, > Wow, folks I didn't know were musicians! > I use iReal Pro too. It's great for practice. And, easily transposes. But as a keyboard player, I use the notes of the tune to shape my solos. iReal Pro only has the chords. It's still useful, though. > > Best,🎶🎶🎶 > Bill > > William A. Prothero, PhD > Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science > University of California, Santa Barbara > >> On Sep 15, 2023, at 11:50 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Hi Mark, >> >>> Am 15.09.2023 um 20:26 schrieb Mark Wieder via use-livecode : >>>> On 9/15/23 10:13, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >>>> I also own "iReal Pro" for Mac which can output PDF if I need one >>>> and I also still own a printed version of the "Real Book I". :-) >>> The only reason I have a 10" tablet is to run iRealPro on it. >>> Hard to imagine doing without it. >> >> good boy! :-) >> >>> -- >>> Mark Wieder >>> ahsoftware at gmail.com >> >> Best >> >> Klaus >> >> -- >> Klaus Major >> https://www.major-k.de >> https://www.major-k.de/bass >> klaus at major-k.de >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Sep 15 19:16:14 2023 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 18:16:14 -0500 Subject: Clipboard Copy Troubles? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <18a9b216e30.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Yes, often. LC loses most of the editing shortcuts. It got fixed some versions ago and then lost them again. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On September 15, 2023 2:04:44 PM Tom Glod via use-livecode wrote: > Heyall, > > Just wondering if anyone else has experienced issues where livecode stops > being able to copy to the clipboard when using copy command from the menu > or CTRL C or right click copy > Specifically from within the script editor or a variable window. > A LC restart seems to solve this temporarily. > I've noticed this recently more than usual. On both mac and windows 11. > > Does this ring a bell to anyone? > > Thanks, > > Tom > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Fri Sep 15 21:11:32 2023 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2023 11:11:32 +1000 Subject: Encoding in LC server - the final piece of the puzzle Message-ID: With the help of forum readers I have textEncode/Decode working in LC Server so that I can handle file names with ute-8 encoding and talking to mysql in tongues. But now I want to produce html documents including Chinese characters encoded with utf-8, using LC Server to output an .lc file to publish on the web. I had naively thought that putting in the “” header at the top would do it, but no, LC Server apparently serves up html with charset=ISO-8859-1 (the native encoding) declared by default, and that overrides the header in the .lc file. The encoding declared was checked using "Rex Swains HTTP Viewer”. I am reasonably confident the actual content of the file is correct utf-8, since the Chinese glyphs are rendered as garbage ISO-Latin characters not as ???? The next step was adding a line such as AddCharset UTF-8 .lc to .htaccess. No help. I note that other web pages on the server are created by WordPress, and they have the charset=utf-8 declared. I presume I am ignorant of some environment setting which controls what HTTPHeader is declared in the output from LCServer? The obvious choice “the HTTPHeaders” but that is not the answer it seems. [I know I can get individual unicode characters to render using html escapes such as &x2304; even when the page is declared with a non-unicode encoding, but that is not a viable solution here.] Neville Smythe From ahsoftware at sonic.net Fri Sep 15 21:11:58 2023 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 18:11:58 -0700 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <53068E58-8269-4ADF-A4D0-64F134111979@iotecdigital.com> References: <5B209DCA-0E6C-4D30-B8FA-067FA2F1BB1D@major-k.de> <23C5FB9A-C5AC-4B0F-ACE2-30375664FB73@earthlearningsolutions.org> <53068E58-8269-4ADF-A4D0-64F134111979@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <125b5a69-078b-6927-83eb-6eee94c7af8f@sonic.net> On 9/15/23 13:50, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > I used to be a musician until I looked up one day and discovered that no one was listening. I guess people got used to the idea that music was just supposed to be background noise, and so they treated live musicians the same way. You see it in bars with live bands all the time. That is why I try to pay special attention to live bands and applaud loudly between every song. Unless they suck. ;-) I was at a wedding a few years ago and during the band's break the bandleader came up to me and said "you're a musician, right?" I asked how he knew and he said "you were paying attention while we played". What got to me was their medley of "La Vie en Rose"->"Samba de Orfeu". -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ahsoftware at sonic.net Fri Sep 15 21:12:30 2023 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 18:12:30 -0700 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <003201d9e810$bd72d300$38587900$@net> References: <5B209DCA-0E6C-4D30-B8FA-067FA2F1BB1D@major-k.de> <23C5FB9A-C5AC-4B0F-ACE2-30375664FB73@earthlearningsolutions.org> <003201d9e810$bd72d300$38587900$@net> Message-ID: On 9/15/23 13:10, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote: > Does accordion count? You know the definition of perfect pitch, right? -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From tom at makeshyft.com Fri Sep 15 21:41:33 2023 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 21:41:33 -0400 Subject: Clipboard Copy Troubles? In-Reply-To: <18a9b216e30.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <18a9b216e30.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Sigh. ok. thanks . Found this ...https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23507 but this could also be something different... "A bug that has been affecting livecode for a long time..." On Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 7:17 PM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Yes, often. LC loses most of the editing shortcuts. It got fixed some > versions ago and then lost them again. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > On September 15, 2023 2:04:44 PM Tom Glod via use-livecode > wrote: > > > Heyall, > > > > Just wondering if anyone else has experienced issues where livecode stops > > being able to copy to the clipboard when using copy command from the menu > > or CTRL C or right click copy > > Specifically from within the script editor or a variable window. > > A LC restart seems to solve this temporarily. > > I've noticed this recently more than usual. On both mac and windows 11. > > > > Does this ring a bell to anyone? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Tom > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 15 22:02:01 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2023 02:02:01 +0000 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: References: <5B209DCA-0E6C-4D30-B8FA-067FA2F1BB1D@major-k.de> <23C5FB9A-C5AC-4B0F-ACE2-30375664FB73@earthlearningsolutions.org> <003201d9e810$bd72d300$38587900$@net> Message-ID: Yes. It’s the one that no batter can hit. Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 15, 2023, at 18:14, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > > On 9/15/23 13:10, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote: >> Does accordion count? > > You know the definition of perfect pitch, right? > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From rabit at revigniter.com Sat Sep 16 05:50:40 2023 From: rabit at revigniter.com (Ralf Bitter) Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2023 11:50:40 +0200 Subject: Encoding in LC server - the final piece of the puzzle In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Neville, did you try: put header "Content-Type: text/html; charset=" & quote & "UTF-8" & quote before sending the output to the client? Ralf On 16.09.2023 03:11, Neville Smythe via use-livecode wrote: > With the help of forum readers I have textEncode/Decode working in LC Server so that I can handle file names with ute-8 encoding and talking to mysql in tongues. > > But now I want to produce html documents including Chinese characters encoded with utf-8, using LC Server to output an .lc file to publish on the web. I had naively thought that putting in the header at the top would do it, but no, LC Server apparently serves up html with charset=ISO-8859-1 (the native encoding) declared by default, and that overrides the header in the .lc file. The encoding declared was checked using "Rex Swains HTTP Viewer. I am reasonably confident the actual content of the file is correct utf-8, since the Chinese glyphs are rendered as garbage ISO-Latin characters not as ???? > > The next step was adding a line such as > > AddCharset UTF-8 .lc > > to .htaccess. No help. I note that other web pages on the server are created by WordPress, and they have the charset=utf-8 declared. > > I presume I am ignorant of some environment setting which controls what HTTPHeader is declared in the output from LCServer? The obvious choice the HTTPHeaders but that is not the answer it seems. > > [I know I can get individual unicode characters to render using html escapes such as &x2304; even when the page is declared with a non-unicode encoding, but that is not a viable solution here.] > > Neville Smythe From gcanyon at gmail.com Sat Sep 16 12:12:10 2023 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2023 12:12:10 -0400 Subject: Your scripts as a flowchart In-Reply-To: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> References: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> Message-ID: Does it not handle script-only stack behaviors? I get a blank display for Navigator (which has no code other than SoS behaviors). gc On Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 10:32 AM Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi all! > > Those frequenting the forums may have seen this already, but I thought I'd > share it here too now: > > If you want to see a graphic map of the inter-relations of all the > handlers in the scripts of your LiveCode projects, my tool > ScriptDependencies now features an extremely cool flowchart output (using > the Mermaid javascript lib). > > Here’s an example of how a script flowchart can look: > https://wheninspace.com/browseranimation/WIS_ScriptDependencies_example.png > > A few easy steps to test it on your own scripts: > > 1) Download ScriptDependencies here: > https://github.com/wheninspace/WIS_ScriptDepedencies/releases/latest > > 2) Open the stack, click the top left cog wheel and add at least one stack > (that has at least some handlers calling other handlers) to a project. > 3) Close the project pane and click "Start mapping and analysis”. > 4) Click ”Create flowchart”. Boom! :) > > On Mac, the browser widget can display the flowchart in-stack, enabling > some interactivity (click a node to highlight the arrows to and from it). > On Windows and Linux, where the browser widget has, er... room for > improvement…, the flowchart is instead displayed in an external browser > window (minus interactivity). > > My intention with ScriptDependencies is to provide a code analysis and > live documentation tool (of some kind) for LiveCode projects. I need it > myself for some big LC projects, and thought it might be useful also for > other LC devs. > > The tool has been thoroughly tested by LC veterans like bn (Bernd), jacque > (Jacqueline) and mwieder (Mike), who have all provided invaluable feedback > and improvement suggestions, bringing the tool up to quite a professional > level. > > I hope you’ll find use for it - or at least enjoy seeing your scripts > presented as a bouquet of flowers, a piece of art! :) > > Any feedback is very welcome! > > /Andreas > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Sep 16 13:34:13 2023 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2023 12:34:13 -0500 Subject: Your scripts as a flowchart In-Reply-To: References: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> Message-ID: <18a9f0eaa08.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> That happened to me too with a very long script. To keep everything in view there's a lot of white space. Keep scrolling. This happens only if you have set it to use unlimited sizing. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On September 16, 2023 11:15:00 AM Geoff Canyon via use-livecode wrote: > Does it not handle script-only stack behaviors? I get a blank display for > Navigator (which has no code other than SoS behaviors). > > gc > > On Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 10:32AM Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Hi all! >> >> Those frequenting the forums may have seen this already, but I thought I'd >> share it here too now: >> >> If you want to see a graphic map of the inter-relations of all the >> handlers in the scripts of your LiveCode projects, my tool >> ScriptDependencies now features an extremely cool flowchart output (using >> the Mermaid javascript lib). >> >> Heres an example of how a script flowchart can look: >> https://wheninspace.com/browseranimation/WIS_ScriptDependencies_example.png >> >> A few easy steps to test it on your own scripts: >> >> 1) Download ScriptDependencies here: >> https://github.com/wheninspace/WIS_ScriptDepedencies/releases/latest >> >> 2) Open the stack, click the top left cog wheel and add at least one stack >> (that has at least some handlers calling other handlers) to a project. >> 3) Close the project pane and click "Start mapping and analysis. >> 4) Click Create flowchart. Boom! :) >> >> On Mac, the browser widget can display the flowchart in-stack, enabling >> some interactivity (click a node to highlight the arrows to and from it). >> On Windows and Linux, where the browser widget has, er... room for >> improvement, the flowchart is instead displayed in an external browser >> window (minus interactivity). >> >> My intention with ScriptDependencies is to provide a code analysis and >> live documentation tool (of some kind) for LiveCode projects. I need it >> myself for some big LC projects, and thought it might be useful also for >> other LC devs. >> >> The tool has been thoroughly tested by LC veterans like bn (Bernd), jacque >> (Jacqueline) and mwieder (Mike), who have all provided invaluable feedback >> and improvement suggestions, bringing the tool up to quite a professional >> level. >> >> I hope youll find use for it - or at least enjoy seeing your scripts >> presented as a bouquet of flowers, a piece of art! :) >> >> Any feedback is very welcome! >> >> /Andreas >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From gcanyon at gmail.com Sat Sep 16 16:43:06 2023 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2023 16:43:06 -0400 Subject: Your scripts as a flowchart In-Reply-To: <18a9f0eaa08.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> <18a9f0eaa08.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: I didn't change anything before generating, and the flow chart is literally blank -- unless it: 1. scrolls invisibly 2. keeps returning the project name to the upper left while scrolling 3. has *at least* 30 screens' worth of blank space at the top? On Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 1:35 PM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > That happened to me too with a very long script. To keep everything in > view > there's a lot of white space. Keep scrolling. This happens only if you > have > set it to use unlimited sizing. > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > On September 16, 2023 11:15:00 AM Geoff Canyon via use-livecode > wrote: > > > Does it not handle script-only stack behaviors? I get a blank display for > > Navigator (which has no code other than SoS behaviors). > > > > gc > > > > On Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 10:32 AM Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > >> Hi all! > >> > >> Those frequenting the forums may have seen this already, but I thought > I'd > >> share it here too now: > >> > >> If you want to see a graphic map of the inter-relations of all the > >> handlers in the scripts of your LiveCode projects, my tool > >> ScriptDependencies now features an extremely cool flowchart output > (using > >> the Mermaid javascript lib). > >> > >> Here’s an example of how a script flowchart can look: > >> > https://wheninspace.com/browseranimation/WIS_ScriptDependencies_example.png > >> > >> A few easy steps to test it on your own scripts: > >> > >> 1) Download ScriptDependencies here: > >> https://github.com/wheninspace/WIS_ScriptDepedencies/releases/latest > >> > >> 2) Open the stack, click the top left cog wheel and add at least one > stack > >> (that has at least some handlers calling other handlers) to a project. > >> 3) Close the project pane and click "Start mapping and analysis”. > >> 4) Click ”Create flowchart”. Boom! :) > >> > >> On Mac, the browser widget can display the flowchart in-stack, enabling > >> some interactivity (click a node to highlight the arrows to and from > it). > >> On Windows and Linux, where the browser widget has, er... room for > >> improvement…, the flowchart is instead displayed in an external browser > >> window (minus interactivity). > >> > >> My intention with ScriptDependencies is to provide a code analysis and > >> live documentation tool (of some kind) for LiveCode projects. I need it > >> myself for some big LC projects, and thought it might be useful also for > >> other LC devs. > >> > >> The tool has been thoroughly tested by LC veterans like bn (Bernd), > jacque > >> (Jacqueline) and mwieder (Mike), who have all provided invaluable > feedback > >> and improvement suggestions, bringing the tool up to quite a > professional > >> level. > >> > >> I hope you’ll find use for it - or at least enjoy seeing your scripts > >> presented as a bouquet of flowers, a piece of art! :) > >> > >> Any feedback is very welcome! > >> > >> /Andreas > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com Sat Sep 16 18:23:07 2023 From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal) Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2023 00:23:07 +0200 Subject: Your scripts as a flowchart In-Reply-To: References: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> <18a9f0eaa08.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <023C9AEA-7B3A-455E-B6DC-18164BBF04B5@gmail.com> As long as you include all the script-only stacks in the analysis, they will be handled. The tool will not look for behaviors and auto-include them. Every stack that has relevant code must be included manually in the project pane. If you have many SoSs, you can quickly add them all by adding the whole folder they are in. How many handlers does the analysis find? /Andreas > 16 sep. 2023 kl. 22:43 skrev Geoff Canyon via use-livecode : > > I didn't change anything before generating, and the flow chart is literally > blank -- unless it: > > 1. scrolls invisibly > 2. keeps returning the project name to the upper left while scrolling > 3. has *at least* 30 screens' worth of blank space at the top? > > On Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 1:35 PM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> That happened to me too with a very long script. To keep everything in >> view >> there's a lot of white space. Keep scrolling. This happens only if you >> have >> set it to use unlimited sizing. >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> On September 16, 2023 11:15:00 AM Geoff Canyon via use-livecode >> wrote: >> >>> Does it not handle script-only stack behaviors? I get a blank display for >>> Navigator (which has no code other than SoS behaviors). >>> >>> gc From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Sat Sep 16 19:56:36 2023 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2023 09:56:36 +1000 Subject: Encoding in LC server - the final piece of the puzzle Message-ID: <41998E45-CFDD-4B1F-BED4-BBF641974CDD@optusnet.com.au> Ralf wrote > did you try: > > put header "Content-Type: text/html; charset=" & quote & "UTF-8" & quote > > before sending the output to the client? That sounds exactly like the incantation I needed. But I can’t get it to work. The first 3 lines of my webPage.lc file are (Not sure that 3rd line is necessary with HTML5, but presumably it couldn’t hurt) The header suggested just seems to be ignored when LC Server sends the output to Apache. (Tried it with “put new header…” too after I found some documentation for the magic spell.) The default setting for Apache on Dreamhost is naturally the native encoding ISO-8859-1.(Is there any way to override that with htaccess, since all my WordPress pages are served as utf-8 already?) Neville Smythe From gcanyon at gmail.com Sat Sep 16 20:04:38 2023 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2023 20:04:38 -0400 Subject: Your scripts as a flowchart In-Reply-To: <023C9AEA-7B3A-455E-B6DC-18164BBF04B5@gmail.com> References: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> <18a9f0eaa08.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <023C9AEA-7B3A-455E-B6DC-18164BBF04B5@gmail.com> Message-ID: Ah, okay, that explains it. In Navigator, *everything* is a script-only stack behavior. In a few of the substacks there are scripts for a few template objects or where script-only-stack behaviors were inconvenient (I don't remember why, honestly). That has it working, and the resulting diagram is nice. Navigator does a similar survey (without the visualization, that's a neat trick). Navigator reports: 302986 characters in 8092 lines in 112 scripts in 885 objects. ScriptDependencies reports: 341 unique handler names - 407 commands, 124 functions, 1 setProps regards, Geoff On Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 6:24 PM Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > As long as you include all the script-only stacks in the analysis, they > will be handled. > The tool will not look for behaviors and auto-include them. Every stack > that has relevant code must be included manually in the project pane. If > you have many SoSs, you can quickly add them all by adding the whole folder > they are in. > > How many handlers does the analysis find? > > /Andreas > > > > 16 sep. 2023 kl. 22:43 skrev Geoff Canyon via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: > > > > I didn't change anything before generating, and the flow chart is > literally > > blank -- unless it: > > > > 1. scrolls invisibly > > 2. keeps returning the project name to the upper left while scrolling > > 3. has *at least* 30 screens' worth of blank space at the top? > > > > On Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 1:35 PM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > >> That happened to me too with a very long script. To keep everything in > >> view > >> there's a lot of white space. Keep scrolling. This happens only if you > >> have > >> set it to use unlimited sizing. > >> -- > >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > >> On September 16, 2023 11:15:00 AM Geoff Canyon via use-livecode > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Does it not handle script-only stack behaviors? I get a blank display > for > >>> Navigator (which has no code other than SoS behaviors). > >>> > >>> gc > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From rabit at revigniter.com Sun Sep 17 06:31:12 2023 From: rabit at revigniter.com (Ralf Bitter) Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2023 12:31:12 +0200 Subject: Encoding in LC server - the final piece of the puzzle In-Reply-To: <41998E45-CFDD-4B1F-BED4-BBF641974CDD@optusnet.com.au> References: <41998E45-CFDD-4B1F-BED4-BBF641974CDD@optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: Neville, you need to send the header before outputting anything else. So, this means your LC server script should send the header and then the HTML data. Ralf On 17.09.2023 01:56, Neville Smythe via use-livecode wrote: > > Ralf wrote >> did you try: >> >> put header "Content-Type: text/html; charset=" & quote & "UTF-8" & quote >> >> before sending the output to the client? > > > That sounds exactly like the incantation I needed. > > But I cant get it to work. > > The first 3 lines of my webPage.lc file are > > > > > > (Not sure that 3rd line is necessary with HTML5, but presumably it couldnt hurt) > > The header suggested just seems to be ignored when LC Server sends the output to Apache. (Tried it with put new header too after I found some documentation for the magic spell.) > > The default setting for Apache on Dreamhost is naturally the native encoding ISO-8859-1.(Is there any way to override that with htaccess, since all my WordPress pages are served as utf-8 already?) > > Neville Smythe From jbv at souslelogo.com Sun Sep 17 08:32:35 2023 From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com) Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2023 08:32:35 -0400 Subject: revXML and UTF-8 Message-ID: Hi list, I have a text file encoded in UTF-8. Each line of the file is an xml node with several sub-nodes and attributes. I have a loop in LC that reads lines one by one and creates an xml tree with revXMLCreateTree. The goal is to parse each line and extract some data. The problem is that, when for instance data is japanese or chinese characters, the data always outputs as ????. When opening the file I use : open file myFile for UTF8 read I tried to insert before each line : and also : put textEncode(myLine,"UTF8") into myLine Is there a way to declare an xml tree as UTF-8 ? Thank you in advance, jbv From paul at researchware.com Sun Sep 17 09:32:13 2023 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2023 09:32:13 -0400 Subject: revXML and UTF-8 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <579a4a01-f82e-e472-0929-6d63d4fb6990@researchware.com> There are a number of "rev" libraries (revXML, revZIP, perhaps others) that are not fully Unicode compatible. See: https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18942 (revXML, revZIP) https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22202 (revZIP) ... and possibly others. There are no work-arounds for not being Unicode compatible (at least none I know of). In my opinion, bugs with no work-around should be among LC's higher priorities for bug fixes. On 9/17/2023 8:32 AM, jbv via use-livecode wrote: > Hi list, > > I have a text file encoded in UTF-8. Each line of the file > is an xml node with several sub-nodes and attributes. > > I have a loop in LC that reads lines one by one and creates > an xml tree with revXMLCreateTree. The goal is to parse each > line and extract some data. > > The problem is that, when for instance data is japanese or > chinese characters, the data always outputs as ????. > > When opening the file I use : > open file myFile for UTF8 read > > I tried to insert before each line : > > > and also : > put textEncode(myLine,"UTF8") into myLine > > Is there a way to declare an xml tree as UTF-8 ? > > Thank you in advance, > jbv > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jbv at souslelogo.com Sun Sep 17 11:04:59 2023 From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com) Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2023 11:04:59 -0400 Subject: revXML and UTF-8 In-Reply-To: <579a4a01-f82e-e472-0929-6d63d4fb6990@researchware.com> References: <579a4a01-f82e-e472-0929-6d63d4fb6990@researchware.com> Message-ID: <6d3e167178e3b39e25a024747ccdba6a@souslelogo.com> Thank you for your reply. I found a workaround, but not a very elegant one : when xml parsing returns some "????", I start the parsing again, but I process the line as plain text and not as xml. It's about as fast. Le 2023-09-17 09:32, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode a crit : > There are a number of "rev" libraries (revXML, revZIP, perhaps others) > that are not fully Unicode compatible. > > See: > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18942 (revXML, revZIP) > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22202 (revZIP) > > ... and possibly others. There are no work-arounds for not being > Unicode compatible (at least none I know of). In my opinion, bugs with > no work-around should be among LC's higher priorities for bug fixes. > > > On 9/17/2023 8:32 AM, jbv via use-livecode wrote: >> Hi list, >> >> I have a text file encoded in UTF-8. Each line of the file >> is an xml node with several sub-nodes and attributes. >> >> I have a loop in LC that reads lines one by one and creates >> an xml tree with revXMLCreateTree. The goal is to parse each >> line and extract some data. >> >> The problem is that, when for instance data is japanese or >> chinese characters, the data always outputs as ????. >> >> When opening the file I use : >> open file myFile for UTF8 read >> >> I tried to insert before each line : >> >> >> and also : >> put textEncode(myLine,"UTF8") into myLine >> >> Is there a way to declare an xml tree as UTF-8 ? >> >> Thank you in advance, >> jbv >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From harrison at all-auctions.com Sun Sep 17 14:35:46 2023 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com) Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2023 14:35:46 -0400 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: References: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> <18a9f0eaa08.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <0A9CBCE4-2810-44C9-9812-300D6166C5E2@all-auctions.com> Has anyone built Forum Software with LiveCode? There are a lot of PHP ones, but I have yet to find one that was built with LiveCode. PHP is hacked all the time, and I have found hacker bots that try to hack my server all the time by exploiting holes in PHP. They even try to install PHP on my server so they can then use it to hack my server! I think Forum Software built with LiveCode could be more secure, but I don’t want to build it myself if someone has already created it. Suggestions? Thanks, Rick From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Sun Sep 17 19:58:22 2023 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2023 09:58:22 +1000 Subject: Encoding in LC server - the final piece of the puzzle Message-ID: <2B2FF5F2-A672-4196-982A-4DF0DF6C0B38@optusnet.com.au> So all I had to do was move that “put header..” to the first line of the script, and abracadabra, all is now working. Many many thanks Ralf, I think I have a smidgeon better understanding of how LC interacts with Apache. Ralf wrote > did you try: > > put header "Content-Type: text/html; charset=" & quote & "UTF-8" & quote > > ***before*** [my emphasis] sending the [html] output to the client? Neville Smythe From gcanyon at gmail.com Sun Sep 17 21:38:42 2023 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2023 21:38:42 -0400 Subject: Your scripts as a flowchart In-Reply-To: References: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> <18a9f0eaa08.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <023C9AEA-7B3A-455E-B6DC-18164BBF04B5@gmail.com> Message-ID: Is there a way to export the entire flowchart, instead of just the portion currently displayed? As an aside, I don't know whether to be proud or horrified at the map Navigator produces... On Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 8:04 PM Geoff Canyon wrote: > Ah, okay, that explains it. In Navigator, *everything* is a script-only > stack behavior. In a few of the substacks there are scripts for a few > template objects or where script-only-stack behaviors were inconvenient (I > don't remember why, honestly). > > That has it working, and the resulting diagram is nice. Navigator does a > similar survey (without the visualization, that's a neat trick). > > Navigator reports: > > 302986 characters in > 8092 lines in > 112 scripts in > 885 objects. > > ScriptDependencies reports: > > 341 unique handler names - 407 commands, 124 functions, 1 setProps > > regards, > > Geoff > > On Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 6:24 PM Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> As long as you include all the script-only stacks in the analysis, they >> will be handled. >> The tool will not look for behaviors and auto-include them. Every stack >> that has relevant code must be included manually in the project pane. If >> you have many SoSs, you can quickly add them all by adding the whole folder >> they are in. >> >> How many handlers does the analysis find? >> >> /Andreas >> >> >> > 16 sep. 2023 kl. 22:43 skrev Geoff Canyon via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: >> > >> > I didn't change anything before generating, and the flow chart is >> literally >> > blank -- unless it: >> > >> > 1. scrolls invisibly >> > 2. keeps returning the project name to the upper left while scrolling >> > 3. has *at least* 30 screens' worth of blank space at the top? >> > >> > On Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 1:35 PM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < >> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> > >> >> That happened to me too with a very long script. To keep everything in >> >> view >> >> there's a lot of white space. Keep scrolling. This happens only if you >> >> have >> >> set it to use unlimited sizing. >> >> -- >> >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> >> On September 16, 2023 11:15:00 AM Geoff Canyon via use-livecode >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >>> Does it not handle script-only stack behaviors? I get a blank display >> for >> >>> Navigator (which has no code other than SoS behaviors). >> >>> >> >>> gc >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Sun Sep 17 22:23:27 2023 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2023 22:23:27 -0400 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: References: <5B209DCA-0E6C-4D30-B8FA-067FA2F1BB1D@major-k.de> <23C5FB9A-C5AC-4B0F-ACE2-30375664FB73@earthlearningsolutions.org> <003201d9e810$bd72d300$38587900$@net> Message-ID: <003601d9e9d7$1e68b7c0$5b3a2740$@net> Was invited to an experimental Jazz show yesterday. I finally realized that all jazz is experimental. "Jazz is not dead it just smells funny" Frank Zappa What do you call a person who hangs out with musicians? Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Bob Sneidar via use-livecode Sent: Friday, September 15, 2023 10:02 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Bob Sneidar Subject: Re: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) Yes. It’s the one that no batter can hit. Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 15, 2023, at 18:14, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > > On 9/15/23 13:10, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote: >> Does accordion count? > > You know the definition of perfect pitch, right? > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com Mon Sep 18 08:09:40 2023 From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2023 14:09:40 +0200 Subject: Your scripts as a flowchart In-Reply-To: References: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> <18a9f0eaa08.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <023C9AEA-7B3A-455E-B6DC-18164BBF04B5@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8D1EE25E-8334-44C2-B451-F17F281AFC52@gmail.com> Getting a full export is a tricky business, and I’m looking at various solutions. The easiest workaround is to launch the flowchart in a web browser and print to PDF from there. On Windows/Linux the flowchart is shown that way anyway, and on Mac you load it in a web browser by shift-clicking the Create flowchart button. The obvious downside of printing to pdf is that you get page breaks that split up the flowchart. Another workaround is to paste the Mermaid code into an online editor like https://mermaid.live and then export to PNG from there. What looks more promising for actually solving it in-stack though, is using the command-line interface (CLI) for Mermaid to generate an svg/png/pdf file: https://github.com/mermaid-js/mermaid-cli I’ll experiment with that and see what I can come up with. :) > As an aside, I don't know whether to be proud or horrified at the map > Navigator produces… Yeah, I know the feeling… :D /Andreas > 18 sep. 2023 kl. 03:38 skrev Geoff Canyon via use-livecode : > > Is there a way to export the entire flowchart, instead of just the portion > currently displayed? > > As an aside, I don't know whether to be proud or horrified at the map > Navigator produces... > > On Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 8:04 PM Geoff Canyon wrote: > >> Ah, okay, that explains it. In Navigator, *everything* is a script-only >> stack behavior. In a few of the substacks there are scripts for a few >> template objects or where script-only-stack behaviors were inconvenient (I >> don't remember why, honestly). >> >> That has it working, and the resulting diagram is nice. Navigator does a >> similar survey (without the visualization, that's a neat trick). >> >> Navigator reports: >> >> 302986 characters in >> 8092 lines in >> 112 scripts in >> 885 objects. >> >> ScriptDependencies reports: >> >> 341 unique handler names - 407 commands, 124 functions, 1 setProps >> >> regards, >> >> Geoff >> >> On Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 6:24 PM Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>> As long as you include all the script-only stacks in the analysis, they >>> will be handled. >>> The tool will not look for behaviors and auto-include them. Every stack >>> that has relevant code must be included manually in the project pane. If >>> you have many SoSs, you can quickly add them all by adding the whole folder >>> they are in. >>> >>> How many handlers does the analysis find? >>> >>> /Andreas >>> >>> >>>> 16 sep. 2023 kl. 22:43 skrev Geoff Canyon via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: >>>> >>>> I didn't change anything before generating, and the flow chart is >>> literally >>>> blank -- unless it: >>>> >>>> 1. scrolls invisibly >>>> 2. keeps returning the project name to the upper left while scrolling >>>> 3. has *at least* 30 screens' worth of blank space at the top? >>>> >>>> On Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 1:35 PM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> That happened to me too with a very long script. To keep everything in >>>>> view >>>>> there's a lot of white space. Keep scrolling. This happens only if you >>>>> have >>>>> set it to use unlimited sizing. >>>>> -- >>>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>>>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>>>> On September 16, 2023 11:15:00 AM Geoff Canyon via use-livecode >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Does it not handle script-only stack behaviors? I get a blank display >>> for >>>>>> Navigator (which has no code other than SoS behaviors). >>>>>> >>>>>> gc >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org Mon Sep 18 11:20:12 2023 From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (William Prothero) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2023 08:20:12 -0700 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <003601d9e9d7$1e68b7c0$5b3a2740$@net> References: <003601d9e9d7$1e68b7c0$5b3a2740$@net> Message-ID: <4F0DA6FD-E972-4084-A222-924B335DC4AC@earthlearningsolutions.org> Ralph: Noteworthy?🎶🎶🎶 Bill William A. Prothero, PhD Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science University of California, Santa Barbara > On Sep 17, 2023, at 2:24 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote: > > Was invited to an experimental Jazz show yesterday. I finally realized that all jazz is experimental. > > "Jazz is not dead it just smells funny" > Frank Zappa > > > What do you call a person who hangs out with musicians? > > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Bob Sneidar via use-livecode > Sent: Friday, September 15, 2023 10:02 PM > To: How to use LiveCode > Cc: Bob Sneidar > Subject: Re: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) > > Yes. It’s the one that no batter can hit. > > Sent from my iPhone > >>> On Sep 15, 2023, at 18:14, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> On 9/15/23 13:10, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote: >>> Does accordion count? >> >> You know the definition of perfect pitch, right? >> >> -- >> Mark Wieder >> ahsoftware at gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Sep 18 13:57:13 2023 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2023 17:57:13 +0000 Subject: Forum Software LC? Message-ID: <20230918175713.Horde.fSxt5xRFtEQ7n6s2Ul9IXLB@hub.4wsys.com> Rick Harrison wrote: > Has anyone built Forum Software with LiveCode? There are a lot of PHP > ones, but I have yet to find one that was built with LiveCode. PHP is > hacked all the time, and I have found hacker bots that try to hack my > server all the time by exploiting holes in PHP.  They even try to install > PHP on my server so they can then use it to hack my server! I think > Forum Software built with LiveCode could be more secure, but I dont > want to build it myself if someone has already created it. Suggestions?   Don't build it yourself. It's a lot of work.  Software is almost always more affordable to buy than build, and most forum packages these days are FOSS and free of cost. Crafting the user experience alone would take months to do well.  And if you think security is lacking in established packages see what happens when you roll your own. ;)   Use Discourse.  There are others, but Discourse is currently the go-to choice for new forums.  Great UX, open source.   Another option that's become increasingly popular is to ditch hosting your own forum altogether and using Discord instead. Forums can be set up there for free, with native mobile apps available and rich APIs if you need to customize anything.   --   Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems   From andre at andregarzia.com Mon Sep 18 14:52:27 2023 From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2023 19:52:27 +0100 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: <20230918175713.Horde.fSxt5xRFtEQ7n6s2Ul9IXLB@hub.4wsys.com> References: <20230918175713.Horde.fSxt5xRFtEQ7n6s2Ul9IXLB@hub.4wsys.com> Message-ID: Just be aware that discord has horrible threading. Never run your own stuff on the web unless you’re really sure what you’re doing (unless it is read-only stuff). Preventing SQL and Scripting injection is not a trivial thing to do and in that sense LiveCode and PHP are kinda the same. Doing a forum in LiveCode is a cool experience and will teach you a lot, but if you’re gonna do it, you will need to be prepared to get really good into other aspects of development beyond LiveCode. You’ll need a very good grasp of Web technologies such as HTML, CSS, JS. You will also need a good understanding of servers, protocols, and databases. As Richard said, it is not an easy project. > On 18 Sep 2023, at 18:57, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > Rick Harrison wrote: >> Has anyone built Forum Software with LiveCode? > There are a lot of PHP >> ones, but I have yet to > find one that was built with LiveCode. > > PHP is >> hacked all the time, and I have found > hacker bots that try to hack my >> server all > the time by exploiting holes in PHP. They > even try to install >> PHP on my server so they > can then use it to hack my server! > > I think >> Forum Software built with LiveCode > could be more secure, but I don’t >> want to > build it myself if someone has already > created it. > > Suggestions? > > > Don't build it yourself. It's a lot of work. Software is almost always more affordable to buy than build, and most forum packages these days are FOSS and free of cost. > > Crafting the user experience alone would take months to do well. And if you think security is lacking in established packages see what happens when you roll your own. ;) > > Use Discourse. There are others, but Discourse is currently the go-to choice for new forums. Great UX, open source. > > Another option that's become increasingly popular is to ditch hosting your own forum altogether and using Discord instead. Forums can be set up there for free, with native mobile apps available and rich APIs if you need to customize anything. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From harrison at all-auctions.com Mon Sep 18 15:29:04 2023 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2023 15:29:04 -0400 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: <20230918175713.Horde.fSxt5xRFtEQ7n6s2Ul9IXLB@hub.4wsys.com> References: <20230918175713.Horde.fSxt5xRFtEQ7n6s2Ul9IXLB@hub.4wsys.com> Message-ID: Hi Richard, Why is Discourse better than Dat-course? LOL Discourse is $50 per month! No free option for that. Thanks for your input. Rick > On Sep 18, 2023, at 1:57 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > > Don't build it yourself. It's a lot of work. Software is almost always more affordable to buy than build, and most forum packages these days are FOSS and free of cost. > > Crafting the user experience alone would take months to do well. And if you think security is lacking in established packages see what happens when you roll your own. ;) > > Use Discourse. There are others, but Discourse is currently the go-to choice for new forums. Great UX, open source. > > Another option that's become increasingly popular is to ditch hosting your own forum altogether and using Discord instead. Forums can be set up there for free, with native mobile apps available and rich APIs if you need to customize anything. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems From harrison at all-auctions.com Mon Sep 18 15:50:27 2023 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2023 15:50:27 -0400 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: References: <20230918175713.Horde.fSxt5xRFtEQ7n6s2Ul9IXLB@hub.4wsys.com> Message-ID: <61AE1F62-E9DD-402E-8AF0-93240C80FB60@all-auctions.com> Hi Andre, I have already worked with all of those for years. Thanks for the warning anyway. Rick > On Sep 18, 2023, at 2:52 PM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode wrote: > > You’ll need a very good grasp of Web technologies such as HTML, CSS, JS. You will also need a good understanding of servers, protocols, and databases. From bogdanoff at me.com Tue Sep 19 16:41:40 2023 From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2023 13:41:40 -0700 Subject: Alternate key commands in LC ???? Message-ID: <62398573-7F94-4153-9275-C2D64B2B2577@me.com> Reading this article about the MacOS copy and paste: https://tidbits.com/2016/06/11/os-x-hidden-treasures-copy-and-paste/ It mentions the (secret) OS X alternate clipboard — kill and yank — that uses control-K to kill (cut) and control-Y to yank (paste) in some MacOS apps. Comes from the Emacs text editor (that was a loooong time ago). I tried it in an LC field and discovered some unknowns-to-me: Control-K does kill (cut) selected text Control-Y does not seem to do anything—does not yank (paste) (I haven’t yet figured out how to yank-paste killed-cut text) Control-K without a selection but the cursor placed within a line of text kills (cuts) all the text after the cursor/insertion point Put the cursor somewhere within a line/paragraph of text and Control-A moves the cursor to the beginning of the paragraph Control-E moves the cursor to the end of the paragraph Control-F moves the cursor one character to the right Control-O does a weird thing of adding a carriage return after the cursor and simultaneously moves the cursor to the left one character, so you can easily end up with something like: c h a r a c t e r Maybe there’s more? Windows? Peter Bogdanoff From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Sep 20 01:33:34 2023 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2023 08:33:34 +0300 Subject: Alternate key commands in LC ???? In-Reply-To: <62398573-7F94-4153-9275-C2D64B2B2577@me.com> References: <62398573-7F94-4153-9275-C2D64B2B2577@me.com> Message-ID: As I use computers running Linux and MacOS, my Macs are set up so the roles of the CMD and CTRL keys are reversed. It will be interesting to see if it affects these alternate key commands with the IDE. On Tue, 19 Sept 2023, 23:42 Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode, < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Reading this article about the MacOS copy and paste: > https://tidbits.com/2016/06/11/os-x-hidden-treasures-copy-and-paste/ > > It mentions the (secret) OS X alternate clipboard — kill and yank — that > uses control-K to kill (cut) and control-Y to yank (paste) in some MacOS > apps. Comes from the Emacs text editor (that was a loooong time ago). > > I tried it in an LC field and discovered some unknowns-to-me: > > Control-K does kill (cut) selected text > Control-Y does not seem to do anything—does not yank (paste) > (I haven’t yet figured out how to yank-paste killed-cut text) > Control-K without a selection but the cursor placed within a line of text > kills (cuts) all the text after the cursor/insertion point > > Put the cursor somewhere within a line/paragraph of text and Control-A > moves the cursor to the beginning of the paragraph > Control-E moves the cursor to the end of the paragraph > Control-F moves the cursor one character to the right > > Control-O does a weird thing of adding a carriage return after the cursor > and simultaneously moves the cursor to the left one character, so you can > easily end up with something like: > > c > h > a > r > a > c > t > e > r > > Maybe there’s more? Windows? > > Peter Bogdanoff > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Sep 20 11:38:56 2023 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2023 08:38:56 -0700 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5186c1aa-d7ab-79c0-d3ce-67bf5b7b2116@fourthworld.com> Rick Harrison wrote: > On Sep 18, 2023, at 1:57 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> >> Use Discourse. There are others, but Discourse is currently the >> go-to choice for new forums. Great UX, open source. > > Discourse is $50 per month! No free option for that. If you want the core team to also host and support it, yes, you can hire them to do that for a monthly fee. And for less than the cost of an hour's billable time, having their team handle everything can be a good value. The project is open source, so you can also host it yourself: https://github.com/discourse/discourse/blob/main/docs/INSTALL-cloud.md -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Sep 20 11:51:56 2023 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2023 08:51:56 -0700 Subject: LC domain for sale: livecodeworld.com Message-ID: <78e95779-1aca-d77a-8e67-f58524c5a767@fourthworld.com> I had two extra LC-related domains, one of them sold quickly to a member of our community, and I have one remaining: livecodeworld.com I'd taken out the domain with the vision of using it to replace livecodejournal.com, but for SEO reasons I've decided to build out going forward on that older domain instead. If there are no takers here I'll see if someone outside the LC community wants it. "Live coding" and "#livecode" are popular terms for the practice of coding live for a streaming audience. But like the other domain I'd sold a few weeks ago, I wanted to make this available to the LC community first. If interested the domain is listed at AfterNIC.com, and I'd be happy to discuss favorable pricing if you have a community-oriented use in mind. We did the last domain sale with a trusted community member, so we were able to streamline quick transfer. I would do the same with just about any member of this list. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems From harrison at all-auctions.com Wed Sep 20 12:09:29 2023 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2023 12:09:29 -0400 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: <5186c1aa-d7ab-79c0-d3ce-67bf5b7b2116@fourthworld.com> References: <5186c1aa-d7ab-79c0-d3ce-67bf5b7b2116@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Hi Richard, Thanks for the additional information. If I host it myself do I pay anything, or it is free? Thanks, Rick > On Sep 20, 2023, at 11:38 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > If you want the core team to also host and support it, yes, you can hire them to do that for a monthly fee. And for less than the cost of an hour's billable time, having their team handle everything can be a good value. > > The project is open source, so you can also host it yourself: > > https://github.com/discourse/discourse/blob/main/docs/INSTALL-cloud.md From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Sep 20 14:40:54 2023 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2023 11:40:54 -0700 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <57cbe1ea-ff4f-01c8-b223-08798ce35f2e@fourthworld.com> Rick Harrison wrote: > On Sep 20, 2023, at 11:38 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> >> The project is open source, so you can also host it yourself: >> >> https://github.com/discourse/discourse/blob/main/docs/INSTALL-cloud.md > > > Thanks for the additional information. > > If I host it myself do I pay anything, or it is free? It's free as in both freedom and beer. From the COPYRIGHT.md file in the archive I linked to above: This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or (at your option) any later version. That said, I'm sure they don't mind contributions to the project, in code or cash. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org Wed Sep 20 14:52:54 2023 From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (William Prothero) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2023 11:52:54 -0700 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: <5186c1aa-d7ab-79c0-d3ce-67bf5b7b2116@fourthworld.com> References: <5186c1aa-d7ab-79c0-d3ce-67bf5b7b2116@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <9C0367DF-5847-4A74-B9A4-B8FDEE714323@earthlearningsolutions.org> Richard, Thanks so much for the link to the installation instructions for discourse. I've been thinking about installing a forum. If I do the installation myself, will there be a cost, other than the domain name? Best, Bill William A. Prothero, PhD Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science University of California, Santa Barbara > On Sep 20, 2023, at 8:40 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > Rick Harrison wrote: > > > On Sep 18, 2023, at 1:57 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> > >> Use Discourse. There are others, but Discourse is currently the > >> go-to choice for new forums. Great UX, open source. > > > > Discourse is $50 per month! No free option for that. > > If you want the core team to also host and support it, yes, you can hire them to do that for a monthly fee. And for less than the cost of an hour's billable time, having their team handle everything can be a good value. > > The project is open source, so you can also host it yourself: > > https://github.com/discourse/discourse/blob/main/docs/INSTALL-cloud.md > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From harrison at all-auctions.com Thu Sep 21 09:32:56 2023 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2023 09:32:56 -0400 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: <57cbe1ea-ff4f-01c8-b223-08798ce35f2e@fourthworld.com> References: <57cbe1ea-ff4f-01c8-b223-08798ce35f2e@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Hi Richard, Thanks for the clarification on this. Rick > On Sep 20, 2023, at 2:40 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > It's free as in both freedom and beer. > > From the COPYRIGHT.md file in the archive I linked to above: > > This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or > modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License > as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version > 2 of the License, or (at your option) any later version. > > > That said, I'm sure they don't mind contributions to the project, in code or cash. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Sep 21 11:09:13 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2023 15:09:13 +0000 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: References: <57cbe1ea-ff4f-01c8-b223-08798ce35f2e@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <013BD2B1-A3D3-4703-9D07-6C40274A7C79@iotecdigital.com> Erm… neither of those are free. :-) Bob S It's free as in both freedom and beer. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Sep 21 16:59:40 2023 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2023 20:59:40 +0000 Subject: Forum Software LC? Message-ID: <20230921205940.Horde.swKB5tu4gXLc9nlFtUFJlp8@hub.4wsys.com> Bob Sneidar wrote: > Erm neither of those are free. :-)   Please explain.   https://github.com/discourse/discourse/blob/main/docs/INSTALL-cloud.md https://discord.com/blog/starting-your-first-discord-server   -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems   From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Sep 21 18:02:58 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2023 22:02:58 +0000 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: <20230921205940.Horde.swKB5tu4gXLc9nlFtUFJlp8@hub.4wsys.com> References: <20230921205940.Horde.swKB5tu4gXLc9nlFtUFJlp8@hub.4wsys.com> Message-ID: <2DC7CE02-C183-487D-8EEB-6220CB98B507@iotecdigital.com> Well, if I go to my bartender and ask for a free beer, I might get one, but then the bartender or the owner has to pay for it. As for freedom, everyone I think knows that our freedoms are purchased at a precious price. Bob S On Sep 21, 2023, at 1:59 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: Bob Sneidar wrote: Erm… neither of those are free. :-) Please explain. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Sep 21 18:34:59 2023 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2023 22:34:59 +0000 Subject: Forum Software LC? Message-ID: <20230921223459.Horde.RRdKlo8Kin-v6rz9PGO5WV2@hub.4wsys.com> Bob Sneidar wrote: > Richard Gaskin wrote: >> >> Bob Sneidar wrote: >>> Erm neither of those are free. :-) >> >> Please explain. >> https://github.com/discourse/discourse/blob/main/docs/INSTALL-cloud.md >> https://discord.com/blog/starting-your-first-discord-server > > > Well, if I go to my bartender and ask for a free beer, I might get one, > but then the bartender or the owner has to pay for it.   True. These systems are popular enough that there's enough who choose to pay for optional premium services so the rest remains free of cost for everyone else. > As for freedom, everyone I think knows that our freedoms are purchased > at a precious price.   Also true.  After thousands of years of intellectual property theft, the Berne Convention of 1886 finally created a global framework establishing that the author of an original creative work has sole authority over its distribution.   A hundred years later the Free Software Foundation and others used the foundation established by the Berne Convention to create standardized licensing guaranteeing the freedom to read, modify, and redistribute software for any package using those licenses. These freedoms fostered such proliferation that today most of the world's software infrastructure is powered by open source.   --   Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems   From david.bovill at gmail.com Fri Sep 22 08:10:01 2023 From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2023 13:10:01 +0100 Subject: Your scripts as a flowchart In-Reply-To: <8D1EE25E-8334-44C2-B451-F17F281AFC52@gmail.com> References: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> <18a9f0eaa08.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <023C9AEA-7B3A-455E-B6DC-18164BBF04B5@gmail.com> <8D1EE25E-8334-44C2-B451-F17F281AFC52@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Andreas, quick note - I've not read the full thread - but I have a code graph browser that I have been using for a number of years - it is a big piece of work - so not easy to distribute - and many of the parts should probably be done better / differently. I would Love to make use / integrate that work - rather than see it all stay on my laptop - but either way I'd like to get involved. This is what I have / the current approach: - Script Indexing project - libraries to recursively crawl an object or a stacks script to find handlers, and calls from each type of handler - Experimental caching and database based versions to speed up graph analysis and reporting (currently dropped) - Integration with IDE / Script Editor (using behaviors attached to "Apply" button etc - Projects arranged more or less as Levure projects - SVG graph export with interactive browsing of handlers (using graphviz) - Native graph export creating native Livecode layouts of shapes from Graphviz or Mermai d(experimental) - Filtering, and processing of graphs (experimental) What I'd like to do is: 1. Finish integration with Levure 2. Focus on Mermaid implementation 3. Test and improve the code parsing and graph creation to ensure it works properly with different coding styles Happy to demo / jump on a Zoom call and share ideas / discuss. On Mon, 18 Sept 2023 at 13:11, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Getting a full export is a tricky business, and I’m looking at various > solutions. > > The easiest workaround is to launch the flowchart in a web browser and > print to PDF from there. > On Windows/Linux the flowchart is shown that way anyway, and on Mac you > load it in a web browser by shift-clicking the Create flowchart button. The > obvious downside of printing to pdf is that you get page breaks that split > up the flowchart. > > Another workaround is to paste the Mermaid code into an online editor like > https://mermaid.live and then export to PNG from there. > > What looks more promising for actually solving it in-stack though, is > using the command-line interface (CLI) for Mermaid to generate an > svg/png/pdf file: > https://github.com/mermaid-js/mermaid-cli > > I’ll experiment with that and see what I can come up with. :) > > > As an aside, I don't know whether to be proud or horrified at the map > > Navigator produces… > > Yeah, I know the feeling… :D > > /Andreas > > > > 18 sep. 2023 kl. 03:38 skrev Geoff Canyon via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: > > > > Is there a way to export the entire flowchart, instead of just the > portion > > currently displayed? > > > > As an aside, I don't know whether to be proud or horrified at the map > > Navigator produces... > > > > On Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 8:04 PM Geoff Canyon wrote: > > > >> Ah, okay, that explains it. In Navigator, *everything* is a script-only > >> stack behavior. In a few of the substacks there are scripts for a few > >> template objects or where script-only-stack behaviors were inconvenient > (I > >> don't remember why, honestly). > >> > >> That has it working, and the resulting diagram is nice. Navigator does a > >> similar survey (without the visualization, that's a neat trick). > >> > >> Navigator reports: > >> > >> 302986 characters in > >> 8092 lines in > >> 112 scripts in > >> 885 objects. > >> > >> ScriptDependencies reports: > >> > >> 341 unique handler names - 407 commands, 124 functions, 1 setProps > >> > >> regards, > >> > >> Geoff > >> > >> On Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 6:24 PM Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode < > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> > >>> As long as you include all the script-only stacks in the analysis, they > >>> will be handled. > >>> The tool will not look for behaviors and auto-include them. Every stack > >>> that has relevant code must be included manually in the project pane. > If > >>> you have many SoSs, you can quickly add them all by adding the whole > folder > >>> they are in. > >>> > >>> How many handlers does the analysis find? > >>> > >>> /Andreas > >>> > >>> > >>>> 16 sep. 2023 kl. 22:43 skrev Geoff Canyon via use-livecode < > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: > >>>> > >>>> I didn't change anything before generating, and the flow chart is > >>> literally > >>>> blank -- unless it: > >>>> > >>>> 1. scrolls invisibly > >>>> 2. keeps returning the project name to the upper left while scrolling > >>>> 3. has *at least* 30 screens' worth of blank space at the top? > >>>> > >>>> On Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 1:35 PM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < > >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> That happened to me too with a very long script. To keep everything > in > >>>>> view > >>>>> there's a lot of white space. Keep scrolling. This happens only if > you > >>>>> have > >>>>> set it to use unlimited sizing. > >>>>> -- > >>>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > >>>>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > >>>>> On September 16, 2023 11:15:00 AM Geoff Canyon via use-livecode > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> Does it not handle script-only stack behaviors? I get a blank > display > >>> for > >>>>>> Navigator (which has no code other than SoS behaviors). > >>>>>> > >>>>>> gc > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> use-livecode mailing list > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>> subscription preferences: > >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dochawk at gmail.com Fri Sep 22 20:07:43 2023 From: dochawk at gmail.com (doc hawk) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2023 17:07:43 -0700 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: <2DC7CE02-C183-487D-8EEB-6220CB98B507@iotecdigital.com> References: <20230921205940.Horde.swKB5tu4gXLc9nlFtUFJlp8@hub.4wsys.com> <2DC7CE02-C183-487D-8EEB-6220CB98B507@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Bob blipped, Well, if I go to my bartender and ask for a free beer, I might get one, When I bought my last bicycle helmet (they’re single use, and the old one had a massive dent at the hairline. I’d never been to a trauma unit before . . .), there was a little sign on the counter that read, “ring bell for beer.” Amused, I rang the bell. And the salesman turned around, pulled a beer from a small refrigerator, and handed it to me! with that, I'll grab some popcorn and enjoy the license wars . . . From danoldboy at gmail.com Sat Sep 23 01:44:10 2023 From: danoldboy at gmail.com (Dan Brown) Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2023 06:44:10 +0100 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: <20230921223459.Horde.RRdKlo8Kin-v6rz9PGO5WV2@hub.4wsys.com> References: <20230921223459.Horde.RRdKlo8Kin-v6rz9PGO5WV2@hub.4wsys.com> Message-ID: A lot of corporations are indeed making a ton of money off the back of free labour and free software. Thanks Stallman On Thu, 21 Sept 2023, 23:36 Richard Gaskin via use-livecode, < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Bob Sneidar wrote: > > Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> > >> Bob Sneidar wrote: > >>> Erm… neither of those are free. :-) > >> > >> Please explain. > >> https://github.com/discourse/discourse/blob/main/docs/INSTALL-cloud.md > >> https://discord.com/blog/starting-your-first-discord-server > > > > > > Well, if I go to my bartender and ask for a free beer, I might get one, > > but then the bartender or the owner has to pay for it. > > True. These systems are popular enough that there's enough who choose to > pay for optional premium services so the rest remains free of cost for > everyone else. > > > As for freedom, everyone I think knows that our freedoms are purchased > > at a precious price. > > Also true. After thousands of years of intellectual property theft, the > Berne Convention of 1886 finally created a global framework establishing > that the author of an original creative work has sole authority over its > distribution. > > A hundred years later the Free Software Foundation and others used the > foundation established by the Berne Convention to create standardized > licensing guaranteeing the freedom to read, modify, and redistribute > software for any package using those licenses. These freedoms fostered such > proliferation that today most of the world's software infrastructure is > powered by open source. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org Sat Sep 23 10:30:30 2023 From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (William Prothero) Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2023 07:30:30 -0700 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Discord looks really interesting. I'm thinking of trying it out. One thing I wonder about is user privacy. I know there are private channels, but does the entity supporting discord have access to user data, emails, names, etc? That will be the first question I'm asked. Best, Bill William A. Prothero, PhD Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science University of California, Santa Barbara > On Sep 22, 2023, at 10:46 PM, Dan Brown via use-livecode wrote: > > A lot of corporations are indeed making a ton of money off the back of free > labour and free software. Thanks Stallman > >> On Thu, 21 Sept 2023, 23:36 Richard Gaskin via use-livecode, < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >> Bob Sneidar wrote: >>> Richard Gaskin wrote: >>>> >>>> Bob Sneidar wrote: >>>>> Erm… neither of those are free. :-) >>>> >>>> Please explain. >>>> https://github.com/discourse/discourse/blob/main/docs/INSTALL-cloud.md >>>> https://discord.com/blog/starting-your-first-discord-server >>> >>> >>> Well, if I go to my bartender and ask for a free beer, I might get one, >>> but then the bartender or the owner has to pay for it. >> >> True. These systems are popular enough that there's enough who choose to >> pay for optional premium services so the rest remains free of cost for >> everyone else. >> >>> As for freedom, everyone I think knows that our freedoms are purchased >>> at a precious price. >> >> Also true. After thousands of years of intellectual property theft, the >> Berne Convention of 1886 finally created a global framework establishing >> that the author of an original creative work has sole authority over its >> distribution. >> >> A hundred years later the Free Software Foundation and others used the >> foundation established by the Berne Convention to create standardized >> licensing guaranteeing the freedom to read, modify, and redistribute >> software for any package using those licenses. These freedoms fostered such >> proliferation that today most of the world's software infrastructure is >> powered by open source. >> >> -- >> Richard Gaskin >> Fourth World Systems >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From htorrado at networkdreams.net Sat Sep 23 11:00:51 2023 From: htorrado at networkdreams.net (Heriberto Torrado) Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2023 11:00:51 -0400 Subject: Livecode and ESP32 microcontroler Message-ID: <26c0c674-82ad-3c93-0e77-a9823d122add@networkdreams.net> Dear Livecode lovers, It's been a while since I've had the opportunity to contribute to our discussion group, and I'm excited to share a new project I've been working on with Livecode Server. In this project, I've been utilizing Livecode to establish communication with the serial port of a PC, leveraging Livecode Server to interface with an ESP32 microcontroller. What I've discovered is that Livecode truly shines as a scripting language in this context. It offers exceptional productivity advantages compared to languages like Python, particularly when it comes to text manipulation tasks. I wanted to take a moment to reach out and let you know that if you have any interest in microcontroller programming with Livecode or if you'd like to learn more about my project, please feel free to get in touch with me. I'd be more than happy to share insights, experiences, and collaborate on this exciting endeavor! Best, Hery Heriberto Torrado Chief Technology Officer (CTO) Director de informtica Directeur informatique *NetDreams S.C.* http://www.networkdreams.net From harrison at all-auctions.com Sat Sep 23 17:54:07 2023 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com) Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2023 17:54:07 -0400 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <26AE53FC-11F8-4089-9875-D488BC8CC706@all-auctions.com> Hi Bill, If you are running your own server on your computer, I don’t believe they would have access to that at all. They claim it’s both safe and that they are transparent on how it all works. It is open-source software so you should be able to see for yourself. Rick > On Sep 23, 2023, at 10:30 AM, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote: > > Discord looks really interesting. I'm thinking of trying it out. One thing I wonder about is > user privacy. I know there are private channels, but does the entity supporting discord have access to user data, emails, names, etc? > > That will be the first question I'm asked. > Best, > Bill > > William A. Prothero, PhD > Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science > University of California, Santa Barbara > From dougr at telus.net Sun Sep 24 11:38:03 2023 From: dougr at telus.net (Douglas A. Ruisaard) Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2023 08:38:03 -0700 Subject: Livecode and ESP32 microcontroler In-Reply-To: <26c0c674-82ad-3c93-0e77-a9823d122add@networkdreams.net> References: <26c0c674-82ad-3c93-0e77-a9823d122add@networkdreams.net> Message-ID: <03b001d9eefd$1b3190b0$5194b210$@telus.net> Hery: I am a livecode list "lurker" ... I read every posting but rarely respond. I do most of my mini project development in the ESP environment but primarily use the Arduino development platforms. I am abouit to embark on getting involved with the Raspberry Pi platform which probably means learning Python (old dog, new tricks, etc). I have developedd extensively in Livecode, though and still consider it my "go-to" environment when possible. If there were a way to integrate Livecode with the ESP platforms, I'd be ALL IN. I think others on this list will feel the same, so please share your preferences on how to exchange ideas. Doug Ruisaard Trilogy Software -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode On Behalf Of Heriberto Torrado via use-livecode Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2023 8:01 AM To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Cc: Heriberto Torrado Subject: Livecode and ESP32 microcontroler Dear Livecode lovers, It's been a while since I've had the opportunity to contribute to our discussion group, and I'm excited to share a new project I've been working on with Livecode Server. In this project, I've been utilizing Livecode to establish communication with the serial port of a PC, leveraging Livecode Server to interface with an ESP32 microcontroller. What I've discovered is that Livecode truly shines as a scripting language in this context. It offers exceptional productivity advantages compared to languages like Python, particularly when it comes to text manipulation tasks. I wanted to take a moment to reach out and let you know that if you have any interest in microcontroller programming with Livecode or if you'd like to learn more about my project, please feel free to get in touch with me. I'd be more than happy to share insights, experiences, and collaborate on this exciting endeavor! Best, Hery Heriberto Torrado ​Chief Technology Officer (CTO) ​Director de informática Directeur informatique *NetDreams S.C.* http://www.networkdreams.net _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dochawk at gmail.com Sun Sep 24 15:25:28 2023 From: dochawk at gmail.com (doc hawk) Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2023 12:25:28 -0700 Subject: Livecode and ESP32 microcontroler In-Reply-To: <03b001d9eefd$1b3190b0$5194b210$@telus.net> References: <26c0c674-82ad-3c93-0e77-a9823d122add@networkdreams.net> <03b001d9eefd$1b3190b0$5194b210$@telus.net> Message-ID: Forty years ago, HyperCard and Supercars ran on 8 MHz, 16 bit, 68000s. (OK, it was a 16/32 design, but still). However, it was *not* snappy by any means. I suspect that you’d need a rather stripped down version of LiveCode on a microcontroller, both to get adequate performance and to cut power. But I’d definitely be interested. My next round of tinkering will probably be with a device like that, as the wifi or ble controller I attach to arduinos seem to have more than an arduino’s worth of processing power left. From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Sun Sep 24 18:10:59 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2023 22:10:59 +0000 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: References: <20230921205940.Horde.swKB5tu4gXLc9nlFtUFJlp8@hub.4wsys.com> <2DC7CE02-C183-487D-8EEB-6220CB98B507@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: The Russians had a great saying: There’s no such thing as a free lunch. Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 22, 2023, at 17:09, doc hawk via use-livecode wrote: > > Bob blipped, > > Well, if I go to my bartender and ask for a free beer, I might get one, > > > When I bought my last bicycle helmet (they’re single use, and the old one > had a massive dent at the hairline. I’d never been to a trauma unit before > . . .), there was a little sign on the counter that read, “ring bell for > beer.” Amused, I rang the bell. > > And the salesman turned around, pulled a beer from a small refrigerator, > and handed it to me! > > with that, I'll grab some popcorn and enjoy the license wars . . . > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun Sep 24 19:03:26 2023 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2023 18:03:26 -0500 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: References: <20230921205940.Horde.swKB5tu4gXLc9nlFtUFJlp8@hub.4wsys.com> <2DC7CE02-C183-487D-8EEB-6220CB98B507@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <18ac96ef230.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> The Russians also have another: Q: What is the difference between capitalism and communism? A: Capitalism is one man exploiting another. Communism is exactly the opposite. :) -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On September 24, 2023 5:13:10 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > The Russians had a great saying: Theres no such thing as a free lunch. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Sep 22, 2023, at 17:09, doc hawk via use-livecode >> wrote: >> >> Bob blipped, >> >> Well, if I go to my bartender and ask for a free beer, I might get one, >> >> >> When I bought my last bicycle helmet (theyre single use, and the old one >> had a massive dent at the hairline. Id never been to a trauma unit before >> . . .), there was a little sign on the counter that read, ring bell for >> beer. Amused, I rang the bell. >> >> And the salesman turned around, pulled a beer from a small refrigerator, >> and handed it to me! >> >> with that, I'll grab some popcorn and enjoy the license wars . . . >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon Sep 25 11:13:35 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 15:13:35 +0000 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: <18ac96ef230.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <20230921205940.Horde.swKB5tu4gXLc9nlFtUFJlp8@hub.4wsys.com> <2DC7CE02-C183-487D-8EEB-6220CB98B507@iotecdigital.com> <18ac96ef230.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Hah hah. Yes, but with Capitalism, we get to vote for our exploiters. :-) Bob S > On Sep 24, 2023, at 4:03 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > > The Russians also have another: > > Q: What is the difference between capitalism and communism? > A: Capitalism is one man exploiting another. Communism is exactly the opposite. > > :) > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon Sep 25 12:14:04 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 16:14:04 +0000 Subject: Go forward is not working Message-ID: Hi all. Can anyone else verify that Go Forward in widget is working? Somewhere along the way it stopped for me. I even enter it in the message box and nothing happens. hiliteChanged is not triggered, and neither is tabChanged. Bob S From dougr at telus.net Mon Sep 25 13:29:18 2023 From: dougr at telus.net (Douglas A. Ruisaard) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 10:29:18 -0700 Subject: Livecode and ESP32 microcontroler In-Reply-To: References: <26c0c674-82ad-3c93-0e77-a9823d122add@networkdreams.net> <03b001d9eefd$1b3190b0$5194b210$@telus.net> Message-ID: <1d5a01d9efd5$d07a0370$716e0a50$@telus.net> I was thinking more along the lines of a LiveCode to Arduino / Python compiler. To be able to write in LiveCode and then upload it to an ESP would be a tream comne true! Doug -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode On Behalf Of doc hawk via use-livecode Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2023 12:25 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: doc hawk Subject: Re: Livecode and ESP32 microcontroler Forty years ago, HyperCard and Supercars ran on 8 MHz, 16 bit, 68000s. (OK, it was a 16/32 design, but still). However, it was *not* snappy by any means. I suspect that you’d need a rather stripped down version of LiveCode on a microcontroller, both to get adequate performance and to cut power. But I’d definitely be interested. My next round of tinkering will probably be with a device like that, as the wifi or ble controller I attach to arduinos seem to have more than an arduino’s worth of processing power left. _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Mon Sep 25 15:48:51 2023 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 15:48:51 -0400 Subject: Livecode and ESP32 microcontroler In-Reply-To: <03b001d9eefd$1b3190b0$5194b210$@telus.net> References: <26c0c674-82ad-3c93-0e77-a9823d122add@networkdreams.net> <03b001d9eefd$1b3190b0$5194b210$@telus.net> Message-ID: <005b01d9efe9$51fcf110$f5f6d330$@net> I'm working on an Arduino/esp32/rtc/lcd display project to control my pool solar heating array to open/close valves, turn the solar array or pool filter pump off/on based on solar availability and min filter hours needed using electric actuated valves, pump relays and temperature sensors. I connected an esp32 com port to the Arduino com port. The esp32 is a socket server and talk to the remote pumps/sensors... having their own Arduino and esp32s to be told when to turn on/off, open/close valves and get senor info. I have used AT commands(it's funny that AT the command format still exists) to test the esp32 and have the whole Arduino thing under control(never thought I'd have to learn C). It's time to connect them together. I know I could do a lot of this on the esp32 itself but all the sensors, relays, display, RTC, SD Card and large program might be too much to the esp32. I want to be able to see the status and set parameters in the Arduino via the esp32 using a LiveCode desktop/mobile gui app talking to the socket server. The Arduino on boot inits the esp32, put it into socket server mode. Waits for all clients(2-4 below) to connect then the Arduino fields/responds to all the clients. Starts events in progress. Clients are: 1) LC socket client app to see status/set params/ turn things on/off outside of scheduled events 2) Main Pool filter pump. 3) Solar array pump. 4) Water valves. The last 3 are in different locations using Arduinos and esp32 socket clients via wifi. The display on the master socket server shows temperatures(in/out solar and pool) I will forward a port on my router to access the socket server when not on the local LAN. Encrypted of course. I'm, trying to get the most solar heat to the pool with sufficient water filtering with minimum electric usage. I'm tired of doing all of this manually and also my electric cost has doubled in the last 2+ years and I'm trying to claw some of it back with this project. I guessing that the handling of network interruption events will be a challenge. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Douglas A. Ruisaard via use-livecode Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2023 11:38 AM To: 'How to use LiveCode' Cc: Douglas A. Ruisaard Subject: RE: Livecode and ESP32 microcontroler Hery: I am a livecode list "lurker" ... I read every posting but rarely respond. I do most of my mini project development in the ESP environment but primarily use the Arduino development platforms. I am abouit to embark on getting involved with the Raspberry Pi platform which probably means learning Python (old dog, new tricks, etc). I have developedd extensively in Livecode, though and still consider it my "go-to" environment when possible. If there were a way to integrate Livecode with the ESP platforms, I'd be ALL IN. I think others on this list will feel the same, so please share your preferences on how to exchange ideas. Doug Ruisaard Trilogy Software -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode On Behalf Of Heriberto Torrado via use-livecode Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2023 8:01 AM To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Cc: Heriberto Torrado Subject: Livecode and ESP32 microcontroler Dear Livecode lovers, It's been a while since I've had the opportunity to contribute to our discussion group, and I'm excited to share a new project I've been working on with Livecode Server. In this project, I've been utilizing Livecode to establish communication with the serial port of a PC, leveraging Livecode Server to interface with an ESP32 microcontroller. What I've discovered is that Livecode truly shines as a scripting language in this context. It offers exceptional productivity advantages compared to languages like Python, particularly when it comes to text manipulation tasks. I wanted to take a moment to reach out and let you know that if you have any interest in microcontroller programming with Livecode or if you'd like to learn more about my project, please feel free to get in touch with me. I'd be more than happy to share insights, experiences, and collaborate on this exciting endeavor! Best, Hery Heriberto Torrado ​Chief Technology Officer (CTO) ​Director de informática Directeur informatique *NetDreams S.C.* http://www.networkdreams.net _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dochawk at gmail.com Mon Sep 25 19:26:16 2023 From: dochawk at gmail.com (doc hawk) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 16:26:16 -0700 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: References: <20230921205940.Horde.swKB5tu4gXLc9nlFtUFJlp8@hub.4wsys.com> <2DC7CE02-C183-487D-8EEB-6220CB98B507@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: bob belabored, The Russians had a great saying: There’s no such thing as a free lunch. True. But there *is* a lunch that someone else pays for . . . From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Sep 26 11:03:47 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2023 15:03:47 +0000 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: References: <20230921205940.Horde.swKB5tu4gXLc9nlFtUFJlp8@hub.4wsys.com> <2DC7CE02-C183-487D-8EEB-6220CB98B507@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: No “but” there. That was precisely my point. :-) Bob S On Sep 25, 2023, at 4:26 PM, doc hawk via use-livecode wrote: bob belabored, The Russians had a great saying: There’s no such thing as a free lunch. True. But there *is* a lunch that someone else pays for . . . From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue Sep 26 13:43:48 2023 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2023 12:43:48 -0500 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: References: <20230921205940.Horde.swKB5tu4gXLc9nlFtUFJlp8@hub.4wsys.com> <2DC7CE02-C183-487D-8EEB-6220CB98B507@iotecdigital.com> <18ac96ef230.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <18ad2970820.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> One more and then I will stop hijacking this thread. BTW these are jokes told in Russia by Russians. "In Russia we have freedom of speech. In America they have freedom *after* speech." -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On September 25, 2023 10:15:50 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > Hah hah. Yes, but with Capitalism, we get to vote for our exploiters. :-) > > Bob S > > >> On Sep 24, 2023, at 4:03 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode >> wrote: >> >> The Russians also have another: >> >> Q: What is the difference between capitalism and communism? >> A: Capitalism is one man exploiting another. Communism is exactly the opposite. >> >> :) >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Wed Sep 27 10:49:25 2023 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2023 10:49:25 -0400 Subject: Livecode 10dp6 and web fonts Message-ID: <31e0834e-343a-5294-7edf-2db21a993001@researchware.com> I get the value of web font support in LC10dp6 for WEB based applications. However, if you making a multi-platform application, you still have the issue of UI consistency across platforms as web fonts can't be used in desktop standalones (or, I assume, phone standalones) So this is sort of an informal poll among Livecoders who MAKE multi-platform apps (defined as 2 or more platforms of (macOS, Windows, Linux, iOS, Android, Web) (A) Do you try to make your interfaces across platforms the SAME (as much as possible)? OR (B) Do you TAILOR each interface for the specific platform (as much as possible)? And optionally, an opened ended question: Does your answer depend of what platforms you are deploying for? From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Sep 27 11:12:18 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2023 15:12:18 +0000 Subject: Livecode 10dp6 and web fonts In-Reply-To: <31e0834e-343a-5294-7edf-2db21a993001@researchware.com> References: <31e0834e-343a-5294-7edf-2db21a993001@researchware.com> Message-ID: A. I develop an app for WIN and MAC. I do want them to look the same on both, so much so that I created my own tab object which uses the tab widget but also transparent buttons in front of each tab because I want drag drop functionality in the tabs, and widgets do not listen for those messages. I also have a set of fonts I use so that I can maintain some kind of consistency between platforms, although in the process I discovered like many others that the same font renders differently across platforms. That sucks royally, but I understand it’s not something Livecode can do anything about without kludging. Bob S > On Sep 27, 2023, at 7:49 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > > I get the value of web font support in LC10dp6 for WEB based applications. > > However, if you making a multi-platform application, you still have the issue of UI consistency across platforms as web fonts can't be used in desktop standalones (or, I assume, phone standalones) > > So this is sort of an informal poll among Livecoders who MAKE multi-platform apps (defined as 2 or more platforms of (macOS, Windows, Linux, iOS, Android, Web) > > (A) Do you try to make your interfaces across platforms the SAME (as much as possible)? > > OR > > (B) Do you TAILOR each interface for the specific platform (as much as possible)? > > And optionally, an opened ended question: Does your answer depend of what platforms you are deploying for? > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Sep 27 11:27:02 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2023 15:27:02 +0000 Subject: PDF Widget No Filled Forms Message-ID: <188A03AF-B0F5-4E69-91D8-B3426AFB5615@iotecdigital.com> Hi all. I have filled forms, and I am just now wanting to display those FILLED forms in a PDF widget. Only problem is, the form data is not being displayed. Is that the current state of affairs? If so, then boo! Bob S From derek-lc-list at speedbump.io Wed Sep 27 12:28:19 2023 From: derek-lc-list at speedbump.io (Derek Bump) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2023 11:28:19 -0500 Subject: Livecode 10dp6 and web fonts In-Reply-To: <31e0834e-343a-5294-7edf-2db21a993001@researchware.com> References: <31e0834e-343a-5294-7edf-2db21a993001@researchware.com> Message-ID: Hi Paul, In the past, I aimed to align my application UI closely with the host OS, believing that a consistent UI ensures broad accessibility. However, over time, I've come to see that while UI continuity is beneficial, it isn't the ultimate solution. This realization hit home when I managed a team for a large enterprise client. We had programs that mimicked the host OS UI while others sported a completely unique UI. To my surprise, the consistency of the UI mattered little to my teammost only used technology to fulfill their core tasks. The outdated screen snapshots and hand-annotations in the department's process documentation underscored this point. The design nuances, like font choices, weren't as problematic as a complete UI overhaul. An entire UI revamp meant new documentation and snapshots, consuming a significant chunk of my time and increasing my managerial stress. While one could argue these issues stem from a lack of training or poor work environment, the reality is such teams exist, and they will be your users and sources of feedback. Now, my focus is on ensuring the UI fits the program's purpose rather than matching the host OS. Continuity matters, but it isn't paramount. I tread cautiously with UI changes, avoiding unnecessary complexity. Gathering feedback early and consistently is key. If considering major UI shifts, I seek feedback upfront. Considering the topic, I highly recommend Bret Victor's "Inventing on Principle" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUv66718DII) I believe LiveCode resonates with Bret's ideas, and I've been integrating his concepts into my work. Well worth the engaging 54 minute presentation. Hope this provides some insight, Derek Bump On 9/27/23 09:49, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > (A) Do you try to make your interfaces across platforms the SAME (as > much as possible)? > > OR > > (B) Do you TAILOR each interface for the specific platform (as much as > possible)? > > And optionally, an opened ended question: Does your answer depend of > what platforms you are deploying for? From monte.goulding at livecode.com Wed Sep 27 19:51:08 2023 From: monte.goulding at livecode.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 09:51:08 +1000 Subject: PDF Widget No Filled Forms In-Reply-To: <188A03AF-B0F5-4E69-91D8-B3426AFB5615@iotecdigital.com> References: <188A03AF-B0F5-4E69-91D8-B3426AFB5615@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Hi Bob Try setting the `drawAnnotations` to true and see if the form data renders Cheers Monte > On 28 Sep 2023, at 1:27 am, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi all. > > I have filled forms, and I am just now wanting to display those FILLED forms in a PDF widget. Only problem is, the form data is not being displayed. Is that the current state of affairs? If so, then boo! > > Bob S > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Sep 27 19:58:12 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2023 23:58:12 +0000 Subject: PDF Widget No Filled Forms In-Reply-To: References: <188A03AF-B0F5-4E69-91D8-B3426AFB5615@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <09B2CF2D-38D7-4FEE-93FC-288B7D9846D1@iotecdigital.com> Nope. Not only that, but the autoHilite (Select Text) is not working either. Bob S > On Sep 27, 2023, at 4:51 PM, Monte Goulding via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Bob > > Try setting the `drawAnnotations` to true and see if the form data renders > > Cheers > > Monte > >> On 28 Sep 2023, at 1:27 am, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Hi all. >> >> I have filled forms, and I am just now wanting to display those FILLED forms in a PDF widget. Only problem is, the form data is not being displayed. Is that the current state of affairs? If so, then boo! >> >> Bob S >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From monte.goulding at livecode.com Wed Sep 27 21:35:56 2023 From: monte.goulding at livecode.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 11:35:56 +1000 Subject: PDF Widget No Filled Forms In-Reply-To: <09B2CF2D-38D7-4FEE-93FC-288B7D9846D1@iotecdigital.com> References: <188A03AF-B0F5-4E69-91D8-B3426AFB5615@iotecdigital.com> <09B2CF2D-38D7-4FEE-93FC-288B7D9846D1@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Hi Bob Hmm… OK, it could be a bit of a project to get your forms rendering then. If it’s something you need soon and you have a budget then contact support at livecode.com . Otherwise you can create a bug report and attach the PDF. FYI there is no support for form interactivity at the moment so the select text is on the PDF text rather than the form fields. Cheers Monte > On 28 Sep 2023, at 9:58 am, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > Nope. Not only that, but the autoHilite (Select Text) is not working either. From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Thu Sep 28 07:09:52 2023 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 13:09:52 +0200 Subject: PDF Widget No Filled Forms In-Reply-To: <188A03AF-B0F5-4E69-91D8-B3426AFB5615@iotecdigital.com> References: <188A03AF-B0F5-4E69-91D8-B3426AFB5615@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Bob, as a workaround you could create a temporary pdf file that is then displayed in the pdf widget. You'll need the free tool PDFTK server with its fill-form option for this. PDFTK server runs on macOS, Windows and some Linux versions. PDFTK server is free https://www.pdflabs.com If you need it for iOS or Android you could use a web server to which you post the .fdf or xfdf data and the web server then runs pdftk server, creates the pdf and returns it back to the device. Not as easy then just opening the .(x)fdf file, but at least a solution. ;) Regards, Matthias > Am 27.09.2023 um 17:27 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode : > > Hi all. > > I have filled forms, and I am just now wanting to display those FILLED forms in a PDF widget. Only problem is, the form data is not being displayed. Is that the current state of affairs? If so, then boo! > > Bob S > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Thu Sep 28 09:38:17 2023 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 15:38:17 +0200 Subject: PDF Widget No Filled Forms In-Reply-To: References: <188A03AF-B0F5-4E69-91D8-B3426AFB5615@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <8C0CC5ED-9DD5-49D1-A615-6F25DE4E24B3@m-r-d.de> What i forgot to mention. For macOS 10.11 and above please use the following link https://www.pdflabs.com/tools/pdftk-the-pdf-toolkit/pdftk_server-2.02-mac_osx-10.11-setup.pkg > Am 28.09.2023 um 13:09 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode : > > Bob, > > as a workaround you could create a temporary pdf file that is then displayed in the pdf widget. > You'll need the free tool PDFTK server with its fill-form option for this. PDFTK server runs on macOS, Windows and some Linux versions. > PDFTK server is free https://www.pdflabs.com > > If you need it for iOS or Android you could use a web server to which you post the .fdf or xfdf data and the web server then runs pdftk server, creates the pdf and returns it back to the device. > > Not as easy then just opening the .(x)fdf file, but at least a solution. ;) > > Regards, > Matthias > > > > >> Am 27.09.2023 um 17:27 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode : >> >> Hi all. >> >> I have filled forms, and I am just now wanting to display those FILLED forms in a PDF widget. Only problem is, the form data is not being displayed. Is that the current state of affairs? If so, then boo! >> >> Bob S >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Sep 28 11:14:54 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 15:14:54 +0000 Subject: PDF Widget No Filled Forms In-Reply-To: References: <188A03AF-B0F5-4E69-91D8-B3426AFB5615@iotecdigital.com> <09B2CF2D-38D7-4FEE-93FC-288B7D9846D1@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: No big rush. I can open the form in a web browser if necessary. My idea was to have a Native Document Viewer like the document management app we currently use, but I am not using my app for that yet. I just generate filled forms for service at the moment. I will create a bug report with a sample stack and form. I should note that this form is the kind where it can be filled using Adobe Reader. For some reason, Adobe has 2 kinds of forms. Bob S > On Sep 27, 2023, at 6:35 PM, Monte Goulding via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Bob > > Hmm… OK, it could be a bit of a project to get your forms rendering then. If it’s something you need soon and you have a budget then contact support at livecode.com . Otherwise you can create a bug report and attach the PDF. > > FYI there is no support for form interactivity at the moment so the select text is on the PDF text rather than the form fields. > > Cheers > > Monte > >> On 28 Sep 2023, at 9:58 am, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Nope. Not only that, but the autoHilite (Select Text) is not working either. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Sep 28 11:16:09 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 15:16:09 +0000 Subject: PDF Widget No Filled Forms In-Reply-To: <8C0CC5ED-9DD5-49D1-A615-6F25DE4E24B3@m-r-d.de> References: <188A03AF-B0F5-4E69-91D8-B3426AFB5615@iotecdigital.com> <8C0CC5ED-9DD5-49D1-A615-6F25DE4E24B3@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: Thanks Matthias I’ll look at that. Bob S > On Sep 28, 2023, at 6:38 AM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > > What i forgot to mention. For macOS 10.11 and above please use the following link > https://www.pdflabs.com/tools/pdftk-the-pdf-toolkit/pdftk_server-2.02-mac_osx-10.11-setup.pkg > > > >> Am 28.09.2023 um 13:09 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode : >> >> Bob, >> >> as a workaround you could create a temporary pdf file that is then displayed in the pdf widget. >> You'll need the free tool PDFTK server with its fill-form option for this. PDFTK server runs on macOS, Windows and some Linux versions. >> PDFTK server is free https://www.pdflabs.com >> >> If you need it for iOS or Android you could use a web server to which you post the .fdf or xfdf data and the web server then runs pdftk server, creates the pdf and returns it back to the device. >> >> Not as easy then just opening the .(x)fdf file, but at least a solution. ;) >> >> Regards, >> Matthias >> >> >> >> >>> Am 27.09.2023 um 17:27 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode : >>> >>> Hi all. >>> >>> I have filled forms, and I am just now wanting to display those FILLED forms in a PDF widget. Only problem is, the form data is not being displayed. Is that the current state of affairs? If so, then boo! >>> >>> Bob S >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From klaus at major-k.de Thu Sep 28 11:34:45 2023 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 17:34:45 +0200 Subject: Android Standalone buiulding error Message-ID: Hi friends, I created an Android runtime from this stack in April without any problem. Now I changes some minor cosmetic issues and got this error when "Save as standalone..." Only thing I can remember is that I added API 33 in Android Studio. macOS 12.7, LC 9.6.10. Android Studio 2021.3 ------------------------------------------------------------ There was an error while saving the standalone application Could not encode class bundle - error: Methods with invalid locals information void androidx.orint.Printre persprintUriAdapters I.onrosttxecutelandroid.araonics.Bitman) Information in locals-table is invalid with respect to the stack map table. Local refers to non-present stack map type for register: 2 with constraint OBJECT Info in /private/var/tolders/8v/k8b7ir8503db3h60tdt9pbw0000a/T/Temporarvltems/tmp.6277.nK1natOk/22/classes.iar:androidx/viewoaaer/widaet/PagerTitleStrip.class Methods with invalld locals intormation voidandroidx.viewpager.widget.PagerTitleStrip.updateTextPositions(int.float,boolean" Intormation in locals-table is invalid with respect to the stack map table. Local refers to non-present stack map type for register: 37 with constraint INT -------------------------------------------------------------- Any idea what is going wrong here? Thank you! Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From merakosp at gmail.com Thu Sep 28 13:40:49 2023 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 20:40:49 +0300 Subject: Android Standalone buiulding error In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Klaus, I am afk now, but there is a bug report about it. The workaround is to make sure you have installed only v31.0.0 of the android *build tools*. Anything above v31 will cause this error. Cheers, Panos On Thu, 28 Sept 2023, 18:35 Klaus major-k via use-livecode, < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi friends, > > I created an Android runtime from this stack in April without any problem. > Now I changes some minor cosmetic issues and got this error when "Save as > standalone..." > > Only thing I can remember is that I added API 33 in Android Studio. > > macOS 12.7, LC 9.6.10. Android Studio 2021.3 > ------------------------------------------------------------ > There was an error while saving the standalone application > Could not encode class bundle - error: > Methods with invalid locals information > void androidx.orint.Printre persprintUriAdapters > I.onrosttxecutelandroid.araonics.Bitman) > Information in locals-table is invalid with respect to the stack map > table. Local refers to non-present stack map type for register: 2 with > constraint OBJECT > Info in > > /private/var/tolders/8v/k8b7ir8503db3h60tdt9pbw0000a/T/Temporarvltems/tmp.6277.nK1natOk/22/classes.iar:androidx/viewoaaer/widaet/PagerTitleStrip.class > Methods with invalld locals intormation > > voidandroidx.viewpager.widget.PagerTitleStrip.updateTextPositions(int.float,boolean" > Intormation in locals-table is invalid with respect to the stack map > table. Local refers to non-present stack map type for register: 37 with > constraint INT > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Any idea what is going wrong here? > Thank you! > > > Best > > Klaus > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > https://www.major-k.de/bass > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From klaus at major-k.de Thu Sep 28 13:51:31 2023 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 19:51:31 +0200 Subject: Android Standalone buiulding error In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <04D3923B-1EFF-431A-B096-BBD9FD3225C7@major-k.de> Hi Panos, > Am 28.09.2023 um 19:40 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode : > > Hello Klaus, > > I am afk what does that stand for? 8-) > now, but there is a bug report about it. The workaround is to make > sure you have installed only v31.0.0 of the android *build tools*. Anything > above v31 will cause this error. But LC claimed this for version 9.6.10 (from the LC blog): ---------------------------------------------- LiveCode 9.6.10 Stable Released ... FEATURES ADDED: Android API 33 update The Android engine is now built using version 33 of the Android API, a requirement for new apps submitted to the Google Play Store. Note you’ll have to install “Android API 33” using the SDK Manager in Android Studio. --------------------------------------------- And I am using LC 9.6.10! I installed API 33 for this reason. What gives? :-( And we MUST use API 33 for new apps or updates of older app. Or did I misunderstand this Google requirement? > Cheers, > Panos > > On Thu, 28 Sept 2023, 18:35 Klaus major-k via use-livecode, < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Hi friends, >> >> I created an Android runtime from this stack in April without any problem. >> Now I changes some minor cosmetic issues and got this error when "Save as >> standalone..." >> >> Only thing I can remember is that I added API 33 in Android Studio. >> >> macOS 12.7, LC 9.6.10. Android Studio 2021.3 >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> There was an error while saving the standalone application >> Could not encode class bundle - error: >> Methods with invalid locals information >> void androidx.orint.Printre persprintUriAdapters >> I.onrosttxecutelandroid.araonics.Bitman) >> Information in locals-table is invalid with respect to the stack map >> table. Local refers to non-present stack map type for register: 2 with >> constraint OBJECT >> Info in >> >> /private/var/tolders/8v/k8b7ir8503db3h60tdt9pbw0000a/T/Temporarvltems/tmp.6277.nK1natOk/22/classes.iar:androidx/viewoaaer/widaet/PagerTitleStrip.class >> Methods with invalld locals intormation >> >> voidandroidx.viewpager.widget.PagerTitleStrip.updateTextPositions(int.float,boolean" >> Intormation in locals-table is invalid with respect to the stack map >> table. Local refers to non-present stack map type for register: 37 with >> constraint INT >> -------------------------------------------------------------- Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From merakosp at gmail.com Thu Sep 28 13:57:14 2023 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 20:57:14 +0300 Subject: Android Standalone buiulding error In-Reply-To: <04D3923B-1EFF-431A-B096-BBD9FD3225C7@major-k.de> References: <04D3923B-1EFF-431A-B096-BBD9FD3225C7@major-k.de> Message-ID: Hello Klaus, Yes you do need android API 33, but keep the version of the android build tools to 31.0.0. These are different things. You can install/uninstall various versions of the build tools if you open the second tab of the sdk manager in android studio. Cheers, Panos Ps: afk = away from keyboard :) On Thu, 28 Sept 2023, 20:51 Klaus major-k via use-livecode, < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi Panos, > > > Am 28.09.2023 um 19:40 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: > > > > Hello Klaus, > > > > I am afk > > what does that stand for? 8-) > > > now, but there is a bug report about it. The workaround is to make > > sure you have installed only v31.0.0 of the android *build tools*. > Anything > > above v31 will cause this error. > > But LC claimed this for version 9.6.10 (from the LC blog): > ---------------------------------------------- > LiveCode 9.6.10 Stable Released > ... > FEATURES ADDED: > Android API 33 update > The Android engine is now built using version 33 of the Android API, a > requirement for new apps submitted to the Google Play Store. Note you’ll > have to install “Android API 33” using the SDK Manager in Android Studio. > --------------------------------------------- > And I am using LC 9.6.10! > I installed API 33 for this reason. What gives? :-( > > And we MUST use API 33 for new apps or updates of older app. > Or did I misunderstand this Google requirement? > > > Cheers, > > Panos > > > > On Thu, 28 Sept 2023, 18:35 Klaus major-k via use-livecode, < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > >> Hi friends, > >> > >> I created an Android runtime from this stack in April without any > problem. > >> Now I changes some minor cosmetic issues and got this error when "Save > as > >> standalone..." > >> > >> Only thing I can remember is that I added API 33 in Android Studio. > >> > >> macOS 12.7, LC 9.6.10. Android Studio 2021.3 > >> ------------------------------------------------------------ > >> There was an error while saving the standalone application > >> Could not encode class bundle - error: > >> Methods with invalid locals information > >> void androidx.orint.Printre persprintUriAdapters > >> I.onrosttxecutelandroid.araonics.Bitman) > >> Information in locals-table is invalid with respect to the stack map > >> table. Local refers to non-present stack map type for register: 2 with > >> constraint OBJECT > >> Info in > >> > >> > /private/var/tolders/8v/k8b7ir8503db3h60tdt9pbw0000a/T/Temporarvltems/tmp.6277.nK1natOk/22/classes.iar:androidx/viewoaaer/widaet/PagerTitleStrip.class > >> Methods with invalld locals intormation > >> > >> > voidandroidx.viewpager.widget.PagerTitleStrip.updateTextPositions(int.float,boolean" > >> Intormation in locals-table is invalid with respect to the stack map > >> table. Local refers to non-present stack map type for register: 37 with > >> constraint INT > >> -------------------------------------------------------------- > > Best > > Klaus > > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > https://www.major-k.de/bass > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From klaus at major-k.de Thu Sep 28 14:06:50 2023 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 20:06:50 +0200 Subject: Android Standalone buiulding error In-Reply-To: References: <04D3923B-1EFF-431A-B096-BBD9FD3225C7@major-k.de> Message-ID: <917EB892-2DCD-456C-A8E7-E6650A08F7FA@major-k.de> Hi Panos, > Am 28.09.2023 um 19:57 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode : > > Hello Klaus, > > Yes you do need android API 33, but keep the version of the android build > tools to 31.0.0. These are different things. ah, sorry, my fault, I had no idea! 8-) > You can install/uninstall > various versions of the build tools if you open the second tab of the sdk > manager in android studio. Thank you, will do. > Cheers, > Panos > > Ps: afk = away from keyboard :) AHA, efcharistó! > On Thu, 28 Sept 2023, 20:51 Klaus major-k via use-livecode, < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Hi Panos, >> >>> Am 28.09.2023 um 19:40 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: >>> >>> Hello Klaus, >>> >>> I am afk >> >> what does that stand for? 8-) >> >>> now, but there is a bug report about it. The workaround is to make >>> sure you have installed only v31.0.0 of the android *build tools*. >> Anything >>> above v31 will cause this error. >> >> But LC claimed this for version 9.6.10 (from the LC blog): >> ---------------------------------------------- >> LiveCode 9.6.10 Stable Released >> ... >> FEATURES ADDED: >> Android API 33 update >> The Android engine is now built using version 33 of the Android API, a >> requirement for new apps submitted to the Google Play Store. Note you’ll >> have to install “Android API 33” using the SDK Manager in Android Studio. >> --------------------------------------------- >> And I am using LC 9.6.10! >> I installed API 33 for this reason. What gives? :-( >> >> And we MUST use API 33 for new apps or updates of older app. >> Or did I misunderstand this Google requirement? Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Sep 28 15:07:42 2023 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 12:07:42 -0700 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47f0517d-2a9a-7364-a0b3-1b26ca7ee8fd@fourthworld.com> William Prothero wrote: > Discord looks really interesting. I'm thinking of trying it out. > One thing I wonder about is user privacy. I know there are private > channels, but does the entity supporting discord have access to > user data, emails, names, etc? > > That will be the first question I'm asked. It's a good question. With almost every public service today, the answer will be negative. Discord is free of charge but is not open source, so while you can set up a server there easily, someone else is hosting it, and like nearly every public service the TOS fine print allows data mining. Same with Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, and pretty much every SaaS you use. For the purposes Discord used for, this is usually fine. Game publishers use it for support and tips, and a great many other orgs besides, and for that sort of discussion privacy needs are minimal. For example, there's a growing HyperCard group hosted on Discord: https://discord.gg/RZZv3wk4 But with VERY few exceptions, any service you're not hosting yourself will be subject to data mining in one form or another.* Only self-hosted systems provide you with complete assurance about how user data is handled. Discourse is free and open source, but for some the system requirements for self-hosting may be daunting. No worries: there are many dozens of good packages for threaded discussion forums, and most are FOSS and can be self-hosted. And if you use any shared hosting you can try out many of them easily enough in Softaculous or whatever one-click install system is provided by your host. And Bill, it's been a couple years since we talked. If you want to kick around a few ideas for what your group needs, give me a call. Always good to talk with you. ---- * Privacy rant: I'm rebuilding all of my web tooling, and with that my content, and with that I just started the rewrite for my Privacy Policy. When I wrote this more than 15 years ago, the biggest concern at the time was spam. We hadn't yet seen comprehensive cross-indexed user behavior tracking used to build psychographic models capable of destabilizing entire regions, as we've seen with more modern information warfare (the US Senate Intel Committee reports on disinformation campaigns include a good methodology overview: https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/publications/report-select-committee-intelligence-united-states-senate-russian-active-measures ). So while I'll be extending some of the wording scope when my new site is published, I was frankly surprised at how well the rest of a 15-year-old policy has held up - here's the meat of it: To be perfectly frank, we find it disappointing that so many companies who sell products and services online also act as mass-marketing companies, selling your email address and other personal information to anyone who's willing to pony up the cash. We offer our Privacy Policy as a challenge for all other online companies: Stick to what you do, do it well, and stop the practice of selling customer information to strangers. If you can't be profitable sticking with your core business and need to also sell your customers' personal information to remain viable, maybe it's time to rethink your business plan. The sale of customer information to other companies is a significant contributing factor to the ever-growing volume of unsolicited commercial email (commonly called "spam"). Last year alone spam cost ISPs more than US$7 billion, and the aggregate cost to global industries is many times that. We know there are many more legitimate ways to spread the word about good products and services, and hope that by working together we may one day see an end to spam. If digital surveillance is of interest, I've found the work of author and EFF consultant Cory Doctorow particularly enlightening. This article provides a good intro to what he's been up to lately: https://www.pasadenastarnews.com/2023/09/14/cory-doctorow-takes-on-big-techs-worst-impulses-in-the-internet-con/ -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems From thatkeith at mac.com Thu Sep 28 15:13:33 2023 From: thatkeith at mac.com (Keith Martin) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 20:13:33 +0100 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3B953044-4712-41A1-AA5A-A86641A3D2F4@mac.com> > On 23 Sep 2023, at 15:32, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote: > > Discord looks really interesting. To me, Discord looks like a refugee from a moderately poorly designed BBS from 30 years ago. I use it (it's the student comms platform of choice for a course I teach on) and it does work well in the sense of being very functional, but it offends me on multiple levels. k From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Sep 28 15:46:07 2023 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 12:46:07 -0700 Subject: Livecode 10dp6 and web fonts In-Reply-To: <31e0834e-343a-5294-7edf-2db21a993001@researchware.com> References: <31e0834e-343a-5294-7edf-2db21a993001@researchware.com> Message-ID: Paul Dupuis wrote: > So this is sort of an informal poll among Livecoders who MAKE > multi-platform apps (defined as 2 or more platforms of (macOS, > Windows, Linux, iOS, Android, Web) > > (A) Do you try to make your interfaces across platforms the > SAME (as much as possible)? > > OR > > (B) Do you TAILOR each interface for the specific platform (as > much as possible)? The universe of software vast, and with games and other entertainment software, and educational other edge cases, there are solid arguments for a wide range of design priorities. But when it comes to software for enhancing organizational productivity, it may be useful to step back from our app and look at the context of use. An app is one part of a multi-step workflow. The user brings things into our app space, does stuff with it there, and takes things produced there for use elsewhere. Word processors take in ideas and notes, and output print and web documents. Illustration tools take in visions and sketches and output diagrams and pictures. QDA software takes in interviews and other source materials and outputs reports and analysis summaries. With this in mind, a more user-centric question could be: Which number is larger: (A) Number of hours a given user will use one app across multiple operating systems. (B) Number of hours a given user will use multiple apps on a single operating system. OS vendors have expended significant resources documenting the products of their research into user interface guidelines. And the LiveCode team has undertaken significant effort in the v9 series to make delivery of OS-HIG-savvy apps easier than using just about anything else. I don't believe all of those resources were a waste of time. Beyond the simple comparative exercise above, I arrived at my appreciation for LC's xplat savvy following an email exchange I had a few years ago with Bruce Tognazzini on one corner of this subject: dialog button placement. As you know, Mac dialogs put the default button at bottom-right, and Win puts the default at bottom-left. I asked him whether I should use button placement consistent with my app or consistent with OS convention. He described the research behind Apple's choice, and (tho we can expect a certain bias since he directed that research), he presented a strong cognitive argument favoring Apple's approach. But on the question of consistency with user expectations borne of immersion in an OS, even where the OS convention is arguably inferior, he was equally clear: Consistency is far more important. Otherwise, users have to develop a very muddled rule that includes, "except sometimes." > And optionally, an opened ended question: Does your answer depend > of what platforms you are deploying for? I'd be surprised if it doesn't. Look at LC itself, made in a mostly-Mac office and more conformant with Mac conventions than with Win or Linux. If you don't spend most of your time on Windows, you won't have developed the same expectations as someone who uses it exclusively. But consider this: how many times have we seen a Windows app ported to Mac, and it's obviously a Windows port and it just doesn't feel right? That's how Windows users see Mac ports that play fast and loose with Windows UI conventions. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Sep 28 16:09:28 2023 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 13:09:28 -0700 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: <3B953044-4712-41A1-AA5A-A86641A3D2F4@mac.com> References: <3B953044-4712-41A1-AA5A-A86641A3D2F4@mac.com> Message-ID: <23999fd7-9025-3e3a-47f2-8fa8b23b86d6@fourthworld.com> Keith Martin wrote: > To me, Discord looks like a refugee from a moderately poorly > designed BBS from 30 years ago. I use it (it's the student > comms platform of choice for a course I teach on) and it does > work well in the sense of being very functional, but it offends > me on multiple levels. You're not alone. When I started using it for board game discussions my first response was "Holy hellballz, which overcaffienated stoner fell too deeply in love with IRC?" :) The functionality is great, but even just dropping the hashtag to distinguish channel labels would go a long way to making it look less like an IRC holdover. That said, my circle of friends include a good many who still use IRC daily... -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org Thu Sep 28 16:24:16 2023 From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (William Prothero) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 13:24:16 -0700 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: <23999fd7-9025-3e3a-47f2-8fa8b23b86d6@fourthworld.com> References: <23999fd7-9025-3e3a-47f2-8fa8b23b86d6@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <9C9FD92A-E915-4039-AB2E-D6A4D925155B@earthlearningsolutions.org> Thanks, Richard. After I looked into discord privacy policies, I realized that my audience would not even consider it. I decided to make a simple site using bbpress with wordpress and try to use only free or very low cost plug-ins. Most of my programming time in the last year was building a complex wordpress site to support our retirees association. So, I got pretty good with wordpress and figure putting together a basic discussion site will be pretty quick. Of course, privacy is huge issue. I've found that limiting login tries and using captcha seem to work well. Also, I have a plugin that won't accept non US ip addresses to help. The biggest development problem is choosing the plugins from the massive number that claim to be the best. Then it takes a day to find out they can't do what you want. Thanks again for the info. Best, Bill William A. Prothero, PhD Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science University of California, Santa Barbara > On Sep 28, 2023, at 8:12 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > Keith Martin wrote: > > > To me, Discord looks like a refugee from a moderately poorly > > designed BBS from 30 years ago. I use it (it's the student > > comms platform of choice for a course I teach on) and it does > > work well in the sense of being very functional, but it offends > > me on multiple levels. > > You're not alone. When I started using it for board game discussions my first response was "Holy hellballz, which overcaffienated stoner fell too deeply in love with IRC?" :) > > The functionality is great, but even just dropping the hashtag to distinguish channel labels would go a long way to making it look less like an IRC holdover. > > That said, my circle of friends include a good many who still use IRC daily... > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Sep 28 16:39:12 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 20:39:12 +0000 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: <23999fd7-9025-3e3a-47f2-8fa8b23b86d6@fourthworld.com> References: <3B953044-4712-41A1-AA5A-A86641A3D2F4@mac.com> <23999fd7-9025-3e3a-47f2-8fa8b23b86d6@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <88647046-ABDD-4248-895D-D0C37F56F3A2@iotecdigital.com> You seem like a World Of Warcraft guy to me. Bob S > On Sep 28, 2023, at 1:09 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > Keith Martin wrote: > > > To me, Discord looks like a refugee from a moderately poorly > > designed BBS from 30 years ago. I use it (it's the student > > comms platform of choice for a course I teach on) and it does > > work well in the sense of being very functional, but it offends > > me on multiple levels. > > You're not alone. When I started using it for board game discussions my first response was "Holy hellballz, which overcaffienated stoner fell too deeply in love with IRC?" :) > > The functionality is great, but even just dropping the hashtag to distinguish channel labels would go a long way to making it look less like an IRC holdover. > > That said, my circle of friends include a good many who still use IRC daily... > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Sep 28 16:53:47 2023 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 20:53:47 +0000 Subject: [OT] Re: Forum Software LC? Message-ID: <20230928205347.Horde.D40f-3yx3Yqxw2LmCCZW0ev@hub.4wsys.com> Bob Sneidar wrote: > Richard wrote: >> That said, my circle of friends include a good many who still use IRC daily... > > You seem like a World Of Warcraft guy to me.   Worse: Mage Knight :)   --   Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems   From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Sep 28 17:15:41 2023 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 21:15:41 +0000 Subject: [OT] Re: Forum Software LC? Message-ID: <20230928211541.Horde.IvKPox99Yz2-QIm8GPCAoPX@hub.4wsys.com> Dan Brown wrote: > A lot of corporations are indeed making a ton of money off > the back of free labour and free software. Thanks Stallman   Public goods benefit the public. I trust that those who choose to volunteer to contribute to public goods understand that will include businesses as well as individuals.   The relationship is often symbiotic: Apple is one of the key funders of what began as KDE's WebKit, a browser engine widely used far beyond Safari. Heroku has full-time staff contributing to PostgreSQL. Adobe and Microsoft are platinum funders of the Linux Foundation, where 3/4 of kernel contributors are salaried.   Even in my modest corner of the world, my business derives so much value from Ubuntu, Nextcloud, Inkscape, SuiteCRM, and others that I contribute to those projects where I can.   There is the occasional rug-pull from FOSS corps, like Oracle's infamous shenanigans with MySQL and OpenOffice, attempting to turn Free into Freemium.  But those are few, and often backfire: MySQL was forked to MariaDB, OpenOffice forked to LibreOffice, even Owncloud forked to NextCloud, in each case bringing key devs and often the project founder with them.   I'm not familiar with anything Stallman has written advocating rug pulls or labor exploitation, but if I'm missing something I wouldn't mind catching up on that if you'll point the way.   --   Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems   From irog at mac.com Thu Sep 28 22:22:33 2023 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 19:22:33 -0700 Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma In-Reply-To: <20230928205347.Horde.D40f-3yx3Yqxw2LmCCZW0ev@hub.4wsys.com> References: <20230928205347.Horde.D40f-3yx3Yqxw2LmCCZW0ev@hub.4wsys.com> Message-ID: Hope to find help here. LC Versions 9.6.3, 9.6.9, and 10.0.0 all give me the “LiveCode quit unexpectedly" on launch after upgrading to Sonoma v14.0 on my Mac, And no, Reopen does not work either. Please help. Thanks, Roger From irog at mac.com Thu Sep 28 22:51:03 2023 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 19:51:03 -0700 Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma In-Reply-To: References: <20230928205347.Horde.D40f-3yx3Yqxw2LmCCZW0ev@hub.4wsys.com> Message-ID: <7358D74D-C3DF-4E06-A694-26E4E725B22E@mac.com> Ok, I guess I’ve been out to Lunch. A review of the list revealed that V9.6.10 works. Downloaded it and indeed it does work. Is that the whole story? Will the older Community versions not work in Sonoma forevermore? Roger > On Sep 28, 2023, at 7:22 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: > > Hope to find help here. LC Versions 9.6.3, 9.6.9, and 10.0.0 all give me the “LiveCode quit unexpectedly" on launch after upgrading to Sonoma v14.0 on my Mac, And no, Reopen does not work either. Please help. > > Thanks, > > Roger > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Fri Sep 29 04:02:34 2023 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 11:02:34 +0300 Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma In-Reply-To: <7358D74D-C3DF-4E06-A694-26E4E725B22E@mac.com> References: <20230928205347.Horde.D40f-3yx3Yqxw2LmCCZW0ev@hub.4wsys.com> <7358D74D-C3DF-4E06-A694-26E4E725B22E@mac.com> Message-ID: Not as far as I can tell: currently upgrading to the 14.1 beta release, and if that fails I have to spend "a dirty weekend" 'degrading' to MacOS 13 Ventura and then, on the basis of my Time Machine backup, 'putting all the pieces together again'. Best [or, in the light of Apple's non-backwardly-compatible thing': Worst], Richmond. On 29.09.23 5:51, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: > Ok, I guess Ive been out to Lunch. A review of the list revealed that V9.6.10 works. Downloaded it and indeed it does work. Is that the whole story? Will the older Community versions not work in Sonoma forevermore? > > Roger > > >> On Sep 28, 2023, at 7:22PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Hope to find help here. LC Versions 9.6.3, 9.6.9, and 10.0.0 all give me the LiveCode quit unexpectedly" on launch after upgrading to Sonoma v14.0 on my Mac, And no, Reopen does not work either. Please help. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Roger >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Fri Sep 29 07:22:01 2023 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 07:22:01 -0400 Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma In-Reply-To: References: <20230928205347.Horde.D40f-3yx3Yqxw2LmCCZW0ev@hub.4wsys.com> Message-ID: I've not tested personally, but I have been told that STANDALONEs build on 9.6.9 work on Sonoma. Can any one running Sonoma test confirm this? (Perhaps again?) On 9/28/2023 10:22 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: > Hope to find help here. LC Versions 9.6.3, 9.6.9, and 10.0.0 all give me the LiveCode quit unexpectedly" on launch after upgrading to Sonoma v14.0 on my Mac, And no, Reopen does not work either. Please help. > > Thanks, > > Roger > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From gcanyon at gmail.com Fri Sep 29 08:12:08 2023 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 08:12:08 -0400 Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma In-Reply-To: References: <20230928205347.Horde.D40f-3yx3Yqxw2LmCCZW0ev@hub.4wsys.com> Message-ID: Confirming that 9.6.9 dies immediately on launch for me. I have a standalone I built with one of the 9.6.x builds, and that doesn't die (at least not immediately). gc On Fri, Sep 29, 2023 at 7:23 AM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I've not tested personally, but I have been told that STANDALONEs build > on 9.6.9 work on Sonoma. > > Can any one running Sonoma test confirm this? (Perhaps again?) > > > On 9/28/2023 10:22 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: > > Hope to find help here. LC Versions 9.6.3, 9.6.9, and 10.0.0 all give me > the “LiveCode quit unexpectedly" on launch after upgrading to Sonoma v14.0 > on my Mac, And no, Reopen does not work either. Please help. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Roger > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From tore.nilsen at me.com Fri Sep 29 08:41:57 2023 From: tore.nilsen at me.com (Tore Nilsen) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 14:41:57 +0200 Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma In-Reply-To: References: <20230928205347.Horde.D40f-3yx3Yqxw2LmCCZW0ev@hub.4wsys.com> Message-ID: <48E16E69-B02A-4CE0-B03E-4E1F3615187E@me.com> LiveCode 9.6.9 Build 15604 works in Sonoma, the same goes for LiveCode 10 DP6. Try to download 9.6.9 again, you may have an older build of 9.6.9. Tore > 29. sep. 2023 kl. 14:12 skrev Geoff Canyon via use-livecode : > > Confirming that 9.6.9 dies immediately on launch for me. > > I have a standalone I built with one of the 9.6.x builds, and that doesn't > die (at least not immediately). > > gc > > On Fri, Sep 29, 2023 at 7:23 AM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> I've not tested personally, but I have been told that STANDALONEs build >> on 9.6.9 work on Sonoma. >> >> Can any one running Sonoma test confirm this? (Perhaps again?) >> >> >> On 9/28/2023 10:22 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >>> Hope to find help here. LC Versions 9.6.3, 9.6.9, and 10.0.0 all give me >> the “LiveCode quit unexpectedly" on launch after upgrading to Sonoma v14.0 >> on my Mac, And no, Reopen does not work either. Please help. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Roger >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Fri Sep 29 08:42:58 2023 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 15:42:58 +0300 Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma In-Reply-To: References: <20230928205347.Horde.D40f-3yx3Yqxw2LmCCZW0ev@hub.4wsys.com> Message-ID: I have successfully run a build of my 'Devawriter Pro' built with LC 9.6.3 Open Source on an early beta of MacOS 14. My DWPro builds contain NONE of the inclusions. Your mileage may vary. Best, Richmond. On Fri, 29 Sept 2023, 15:13 Geoff Canyon via use-livecode, < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Confirming that 9.6.9 dies immediately on launch for me. > > I have a standalone I built with one of the 9.6.x builds, and that doesn't > die (at least not immediately). > > gc > > On Fri, Sep 29, 2023 at 7:23 AM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > I've not tested personally, but I have been told that STANDALONEs build > > on 9.6.9 work on Sonoma. > > > > Can any one running Sonoma test confirm this? (Perhaps again?) > > > > > > On 9/28/2023 10:22 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: > > > Hope to find help here. LC Versions 9.6.3, 9.6.9, and 10.0.0 all give > me > > the “LiveCode quit unexpectedly" on launch after upgrading to Sonoma > v14.0 > > on my Mac, And no, Reopen does not work either. Please help. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Roger > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From james at thehales.id.au Fri Sep 29 11:10:19 2023 From: james at thehales.id.au (James At The Hales) Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2023 01:10:19 +1000 Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma Message-ID: <3A29D95F-042C-499F-9F27-DA6C95E95496@thehales.id.au> LC 10 dp6 and the current 9.6.10 all work for me on Sonoma. 14.0 Builds from both work, although for me the build process for 10dp6 doesn’t end (the standalone is built though). Also the dictionary in 10dp6 doesn’t work on my mac. James From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 29 11:30:12 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 15:30:12 +0000 Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma In-Reply-To: References: <20230928205347.Horde.D40f-3yx3Yqxw2LmCCZW0ev@hub.4wsys.com> Message-ID: <42B006DF-2B8E-478A-8F24-5794F08DE934@iotecdigital.com> As always, remove all your plugins and try again. Also, just spitballing but do you have your firewall enabled? LC checks for licensing on launch (correct me if I am wrong). Bob S > On Sep 28, 2023, at 7:22 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: > > Hope to find help here. LC Versions 9.6.3, 9.6.9, and 10.0.0 all give me the “LiveCode quit unexpectedly" on launch after upgrading to Sonoma v14.0 on my Mac, And no, Reopen does not work either. Please help. > > Thanks, > > Roger > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From irog at mac.com Fri Sep 29 12:33:44 2023 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 09:33:44 -0700 Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma In-Reply-To: <42B006DF-2B8E-478A-8F24-5794F08DE934@iotecdigital.com> References: <20230928205347.Horde.D40f-3yx3Yqxw2LmCCZW0ev@hub.4wsys.com> <42B006DF-2B8E-478A-8F24-5794F08DE934@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <846EAF6A-1C6D-4830-8EC0-7F504F05423C@mac.com> Thanks, Bob, I’ll give that a try later today. At least I am up and running with LC 9.6.10. Roger > On Sep 29, 2023, at 8:30 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > As always, remove all your plugins and try again. Also, just spitballing but do you have your firewall enabled? LC checks for licensing on launch (correct me if I am wrong). > > Bob S > > >> On Sep 28, 2023, at 7:22 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Hope to find help here. LC Versions 9.6.3, 9.6.9, and 10.0.0 all give me the “LiveCode quit unexpectedly" on launch after upgrading to Sonoma v14.0 on my Mac, And no, Reopen does not work either. Please help. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Roger >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Fri Sep 29 14:30:33 2023 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Eller, Roger) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 18:30:33 +0000 Subject: Fun with ChatGPT creating LC script Message-ID: I asked ChatGPT to solve this problem, which it did perfectly. Then I asked ChatGPT to create code in LiveCode to solve the same problem. It generated some surprisingly great "looking" LC script which on the surface seemed like it would work. I allowed ChatGPT 4 tries to generate functional and complete code to solve this problem. It was never able to. Try it. It's interesting to see the variations that it comes up with. PROBLEM in plain English: If there is a finite number of colored slots on a board; let’s say 15, the first 4 are filled. Also slot 7 and 9 are filled. I have 6 new colors that I need to store in open slots. Which available slots can I put these 6 colors without leaving any gaps? Each color must be unique. ChatGPT response: To place 6 new colors in the available slots without leaving any gaps, you'll need to use slots that are consecutive and unoccupied. In your scenario, you have a board with 15 slots, and the first 4 are filled, slot 7 is filled, and slot 9 is filled. So, you have the following situation: 1. Filled 2. Filled 3. Filled 4. Filled 5. Available 6. Available 7. Filled 8. Available 9. Filled 10. Available 11. Available 12. Available 13. Available 14. Available 15. Available To place 6 unique colors without any gaps, you can use slots 5, 6, 8, 10, 11, and 12. This will fill all the available slots without any gaps: 1. Filled 2. Filled 3. Filled 4. Filled 5. New Color 6. New Color 7. Filled 8. New Color 9. Filled 10. New Color 11. New Color 12. New Color 13. Available 14. Available 15. Available Now you've placed 6 unique colors in the available slots without any gaps. /END ChatGPT response From derek-lc-list at speedbump.io Fri Sep 29 14:53:14 2023 From: derek-lc-list at speedbump.io (Derek Bump) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 13:53:14 -0500 Subject: Fun with ChatGPT creating LC script In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5cd0b456-8bd7-c75f-9901-33f20acc2e66@speedbump.io> Hello Roger, It is indeed a lot of fun, I couldn't agree more! What's truly amazing is how often I can transform that impressive "looking" LC script into something actually functional. Using LLMs in combination with the Script Profiler was all the proof I needed to ensure LLMs are now a dedicated part of my workflow. I do wish there was an offline model that didn't produce just javascript-laden gibberish, but I have a feeling that won't be the case for much longer. Thanks for sharing, Derek Bump On 9/29/23 13:30, Eller, Roger via use-livecode wrote: > Then I asked ChatGPT to create code in LiveCode to solve the same problem. It generated some surprisingly great "looking" LC script which on the surface seemed like it would work. I allowed ChatGPT 4 tries to generate functional and complete code to solve this problem. It was never able to. Try it. It's interesting to see the variations that it comes up with. From irog at mac.com Fri Sep 29 16:26:05 2023 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 13:26:05 -0700 Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma In-Reply-To: <846EAF6A-1C6D-4830-8EC0-7F504F05423C@mac.com> References: <20230928205347.Horde.D40f-3yx3Yqxw2LmCCZW0ev@hub.4wsys.com> <42B006DF-2B8E-478A-8F24-5794F08DE934@iotecdigital.com> <846EAF6A-1C6D-4830-8EC0-7F504F05423C@mac.com> Message-ID: Nope, removing the plugins is not the answer to making LiveCode work in Sonoma. To be clear, I have found that LC 9.6.10 is the only version that works in Sonoma. I’m not sure if there is a subsequent version of 10.0.0 (DP 4) that might work? Oh and Firewall is inactive Roger > On Sep 29, 2023, at 9:33 AM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: > > Thanks, Bob, I’ll give that a try later today. At least I am up and running with LC 9.6.10. > > Roger > >> On Sep 29, 2023, at 8:30 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: >> >> As always, remove all your plugins and try again. Also, just spitballing but do you have your firewall enabled? LC checks for licensing on launch (correct me if I am wrong). >> >> Bob S >> >> >>> On Sep 28, 2023, at 7:22 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> Hope to find help here. LC Versions 9.6.3, 9.6.9, and 10.0.0 all give me the “LiveCode quit unexpectedly" on launch after upgrading to Sonoma v14.0 on my Mac, And no, Reopen does not work either. Please help. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Roger >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From irog at mac.com Fri Sep 29 17:03:27 2023 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 14:03:27 -0700 Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma In-Reply-To: References: <20230928205347.Horde.D40f-3yx3Yqxw2LmCCZW0ev@hub.4wsys.com> <42B006DF-2B8E-478A-8F24-5794F08DE934@iotecdigital.com> <846EAF6A-1C6D-4830-8EC0-7F504F05423C@mac.com> Message-ID: <45E089F9-D648-45D0-B983-E01366903AB4@mac.com> Finally, I can confirm that 10.0.0-dp-6 works in Sonoma Roger > On Sep 29, 2023, at 1:26 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: > > Nope, removing the plugins is not the answer to making LiveCode work in Sonoma. To be clear, I have found that LC 9.6.10 is the only version that works in Sonoma. I’m not sure if there is a subsequent version of 10.0.0 (DP 4) that might work? > > Oh and Firewall is inactive > > > Roger > >> On Sep 29, 2023, at 9:33 AM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Thanks, Bob, I’ll give that a try later today. At least I am up and running with LC 9.6.10. >> >> Roger >> >>> On Sep 29, 2023, at 8:30 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> As always, remove all your plugins and try again. Also, just spitballing but do you have your firewall enabled? LC checks for licensing on launch (correct me if I am wrong). >>> >>> Bob S >>> >>> >>>> On Sep 28, 2023, at 7:22 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >>>> >>>> Hope to find help here. LC Versions 9.6.3, 9.6.9, and 10.0.0 all give me the “LiveCode quit unexpectedly" on launch after upgrading to Sonoma v14.0 on my Mac, And no, Reopen does not work either. Please help. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Roger >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Fri Sep 29 18:44:20 2023 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2023 00:44:20 +0200 Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma In-Reply-To: <45E089F9-D648-45D0-B983-E01366903AB4@mac.com> References: <20230928205347.Horde.D40f-3yx3Yqxw2LmCCZW0ev@hub.4wsys.com> <42B006DF-2B8E-478A-8F24-5794F08DE934@iotecdigital.com> <846EAF6A-1C6D-4830-8EC0-7F504F05423C@mac.com> <45E089F9-D648-45D0-B983-E01366903AB4@mac.com> Message-ID: <00BF1E83-64C1-4337-92F0-813B073D5574@m-r-d.de> While checking the different binaries of the app bundles of 9.6.9, 9.6.10, 10dp4 and 10.dp6 i noticed that only 9.6.10 and 10DP6 app bundles have all their binaries completely code signed. I just checked the content of the macOS folder of the app bundles, but there for example the livecode executables of 9.6.10 and 10DP6 have valid signature, but the livecode executables of 9.6.9 and 10DP4 haven't. So maybe this is the reason why the older releases do not work in Sonoma. If you have a current Apple Developer subscription you could try to code sign and notarize the complete app bundle of 9.6.9 for example. Maybe this will allow to run these versions under Sonoma. I did this some time ago, if i remember right then with 10DP2 and an "enhanced" plist to get an other problem fixed. https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23576 > Am 29.09.2023 um 23:03 schrieb Roger Guay via use-livecode : > > Finally, I can confirm that 10.0.0-dp-6 works in Sonoma > > Roger > >> On Sep 29, 2023, at 1:26 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Nope, removing the plugins is not the answer to making LiveCode work in Sonoma. To be clear, I have found that LC 9.6.10 is the only version that works in Sonoma. I’m not sure if there is a subsequent version of 10.0.0 (DP 4) that might work? >> >> Oh and Firewall is inactive >> >> >> Roger >> >>> On Sep 29, 2023, at 9:33 AM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> Thanks, Bob, I’ll give that a try later today. At least I am up and running with LC 9.6.10. >>> >>> Roger >>> >>>> On Sep 29, 2023, at 8:30 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: >>>> >>>> As always, remove all your plugins and try again. Also, just spitballing but do you have your firewall enabled? LC checks for licensing on launch (correct me if I am wrong). >>>> >>>> Bob S >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Sep 28, 2023, at 7:22 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hope to find help here. LC Versions 9.6.3, 9.6.9, and 10.0.0 all give me the “LiveCode quit unexpectedly" on launch after upgrading to Sonoma v14.0 on my Mac, And no, Reopen does not work either. Please help. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Roger >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 29 19:22:31 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 23:22:31 +0000 Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma In-Reply-To: <00BF1E83-64C1-4337-92F0-813B073D5574@m-r-d.de> References: <20230928205347.Horde.D40f-3yx3Yqxw2LmCCZW0ev@hub.4wsys.com> <42B006DF-2B8E-478A-8F24-5794F08DE934@iotecdigital.com> <846EAF6A-1C6D-4830-8EC0-7F504F05423C@mac.com> <45E089F9-D648-45D0-B983-E01366903AB4@mac.com> <00BF1E83-64C1-4337-92F0-813B073D5574@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <91B6AAE5-5DEB-47AA-8F12-CD7F20A05DCC@iotecdigital.com> Hmmm… I wonder if we can expect ALL unsigned apps to crash under Sonoma? Bob S On Sep 29, 2023, at 3:44 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: While checking the different binaries of the app bundles of 9.6.9, 9.6.10, 10dp4 and 10.dp6 i noticed that only 9.6.10 and 10DP6 app bundles have all their binaries completely code signed. I just checked the content of the macOS folder of the app bundles, but there for example the livecode executables of 9.6.10 and 10DP6 have valid signature, but the livecode executables of 9.6.9 and 10DP4 haven't. So maybe this is the reason why the older releases do not work in Sonoma. If you have a current Apple Developer subscription you could try to code sign and notarize the complete app bundle of 9.6.9 for example. Maybe this will allow to run these versions under Sonoma. I did this some time ago, if i remember right then with 10DP2 and an "enhanced" plist to get an other problem fixed. https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23576 Am 29.09.2023 um 23:03 schrieb Roger Guay via use-livecode >: Finally, I can confirm that 10.0.0-dp-6 works in Sonoma Roger From irog at mac.com Fri Sep 29 19:34:41 2023 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 16:34:41 -0700 Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma In-Reply-To: <91B6AAE5-5DEB-47AA-8F12-CD7F20A05DCC@iotecdigital.com> References: <20230928205347.Horde.D40f-3yx3Yqxw2LmCCZW0ev@hub.4wsys.com> <42B006DF-2B8E-478A-8F24-5794F08DE934@iotecdigital.com> <846EAF6A-1C6D-4830-8EC0-7F504F05423C@mac.com> <45E089F9-D648-45D0-B983-E01366903AB4@mac.com> <00BF1E83-64C1-4337-92F0-813B073D5574@m-r-d.de> <91B6AAE5-5DEB-47AA-8F12-CD7F20A05DCC@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: If you mean unsigned standalones, I just checked one of mine developed probably in 9.6 or 9.7 and it worked. Roger > On Sep 29, 2023, at 4:22 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > Hmmm… I wonder if we can expect ALL unsigned apps to crash under Sonoma? > > Bob S > > > On Sep 29, 2023, at 3:44 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > > While checking the different binaries of the app bundles of 9.6.9, 9.6.10, 10dp4 and 10.dp6 i noticed > that only 9.6.10 and 10DP6 app bundles have all their binaries completely code signed. > > I just checked the content of the macOS folder of the app bundles, but there for example the livecode executables of 9.6.10 and 10DP6 have valid signature, but the livecode executables of 9.6.9 and 10DP4 haven't. > So maybe this is the reason why the older releases do not work in Sonoma. > > If you have a current Apple Developer subscription you could try to code sign and notarize the complete app bundle of 9.6.9 for example. Maybe this will allow to run these versions under Sonoma. > I did this some time ago, if i remember right then with 10DP2 and an "enhanced" plist to get an other problem fixed. > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23576 > > > > > Am 29.09.2023 um 23:03 schrieb Roger Guay via use-livecode >: > > Finally, I can confirm that 10.0.0-dp-6 works in Sonoma > > Roger > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Fri Sep 29 19:39:52 2023 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe) Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2023 01:39:52 +0200 Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma In-Reply-To: <91B6AAE5-5DEB-47AA-8F12-CD7F20A05DCC@iotecdigital.com> References: <91B6AAE5-5DEB-47AA-8F12-CD7F20A05DCC@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <3A11141C-8885-4AFD-9D5E-C17867B78279@m-r-d.de> Maybe my observation is not the reason for the crash. Would really not make sense, when an unsigned app would crash instead of reporting an alert. But code signing the complete Livecode app bundle would proof it. Did someone btw had a look at the system log file after the crash? Von meinem iPhone gesendet > Am 30.09.2023 um 01:23 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode : > > Hmmm… I wonder if we can expect ALL unsigned apps to crash under Sonoma? > > Bob S > > > On Sep 29, 2023, at 3:44 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > > While checking the different binaries of the app bundles of 9.6.9, 9.6.10, 10dp4 and 10.dp6 i noticed > that only 9.6.10 and 10DP6 app bundles have all their binaries completely code signed. > > I just checked the content of the macOS folder of the app bundles, but there for example the livecode executables of 9.6.10 and 10DP6 have valid signature, but the livecode executables of 9.6.9 and 10DP4 haven't. > So maybe this is the reason why the older releases do not work in Sonoma. > > If you have a current Apple Developer subscription you could try to code sign and notarize the complete app bundle of 9.6.9 for example. Maybe this will allow to run these versions under Sonoma. > I did this some time ago, if i remember right then with 10DP2 and an "enhanced" plist to get an other problem fixed. > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23576 > > > > > Am 29.09.2023 um 23:03 schrieb Roger Guay via use-livecode >: > > Finally, I can confirm that 10.0.0-dp-6 works in Sonoma > > Roger > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 29 19:52:08 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 23:52:08 +0000 Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma In-Reply-To: References: <20230928205347.Horde.D40f-3yx3Yqxw2LmCCZW0ev@hub.4wsys.com> <42B006DF-2B8E-478A-8F24-5794F08DE934@iotecdigital.com> <846EAF6A-1C6D-4830-8EC0-7F504F05423C@mac.com> <45E089F9-D648-45D0-B983-E01366903AB4@mac.com> <00BF1E83-64C1-4337-92F0-813B073D5574@m-r-d.de> <91B6AAE5-5DEB-47AA-8F12-CD7F20A05DCC@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <066AF6CB-1246-42E5-9625-8AB9707DD267@iotecdigital.com> I mean unsigned anything. I use some utility apps unrelated to Livecode which I had to allow when I ran them the first time if memory serves. Bob S > On Sep 29, 2023, at 4:34 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: > > If you mean unsigned standalones, I just checked one of mine developed probably in 9.6 or 9.7 and it worked. > > Roger > >> On Sep 29, 2023, at 4:22 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Hmmm… I wonder if we can expect ALL unsigned apps to crash under Sonoma? >> >> Bob S >> >> >> On Sep 29, 2023, at 3:44 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: >> >> While checking the different binaries of the app bundles of 9.6.9, 9.6.10, 10dp4 and 10.dp6 i noticed >> that only 9.6.10 and 10DP6 app bundles have all their binaries completely code signed. >> >> I just checked the content of the macOS folder of the app bundles, but there for example the livecode executables of 9.6.10 and 10DP6 have valid signature, but the livecode executables of 9.6.9 and 10DP4 haven't. >> So maybe this is the reason why the older releases do not work in Sonoma. >> >> If you have a current Apple Developer subscription you could try to code sign and notarize the complete app bundle of 9.6.9 for example. Maybe this will allow to run these versions under Sonoma. >> I did this some time ago, if i remember right then with 10DP2 and an "enhanced" plist to get an other problem fixed. >> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23576 >> >> >> >> >> Am 29.09.2023 um 23:03 schrieb Roger Guay via use-livecode >: >> >> Finally, I can confirm that 10.0.0-dp-6 works in Sonoma >> >> Roger >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Fri Sep 1 12:44:25 2023 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 12:44:25 -0400 Subject: is strictly a name Message-ID: <76a6ebf7-7c63-c8ed-6c47-1da23d6170f5@researchware.com> I may just be experiencing a brain fart, but I have read the release notes several times, and I don't understand the purpose of the new: is strictly a name operator? Can someone explain its purpose in really basic terms or examples? From tom at makeshyft.com Fri Sep 1 13:20:04 2023 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 13:20:04 -0400 Subject: UUID v7 Message-ID: Hi Folks, Sharing this because its useful, and also, more eyeballs on the code makes sense. I implemented this with the help of chatGPT. This is a handler that can generate v7 UUIDs. v7 UUIDs work better in databases, because they are not so random, improving performance. And they are sequential. They also match the format of uuid v4 Also the specs for v7 have not yet been finalized. Here it is: function CreateUUID pVersion // This Handler returns a if pVersion is not 7 then //Return V4 Random UUID return uuid("random") else if pVersion = 7 then // return V7 Random yet sequenced UUID local tUnixTsMs, tVer, tRandA, tTVar, tRandB, tTheID -- Get the current timestamp in milliseconds put baseConvert(the milliseconds, 10, 16) into tUnixTsMs put format("%012s", tUnixTsMs) into tUnixTsMs // Set the version field to 0b0111 (7) put "7" into tVer // Generate 12 bits of pseudo-random data for RAND A put random(4095) into tRandA -- 4095 is the maximum value for 12 bits put baseConvert(tRandA, 10, 16) into tRandA put format("%03s", tRandA) into tRandA // Set the variant field to 0b10 put "8" into tTVar -- 0b10 in hexadecimal // Generate 62 bits of pseudo-random data for RAND B repeat 16 times put baseConvert(random(15), 10, 16) after tRandB -- generate one hex digit at a time end repeat // Combine all the bits to form the UUID put tUnixTsMs & tVer & tRandA & tTVar & tRandB into tTheID // Insert dashes to form the UUID in 8-4-4-4-12 format put char 1 to 8 of tTheID & "-" & char 9 to 12 of tTheID & "-" & char 13 to 16 of tTheID & "-" & char 17 to 20 of tTheID & "-" & char 21 to 32 of tTheID into tTheID return tTheID end if end CreateUUID tVersion Cheers, Tom From mark at livecode.com Fri Sep 1 13:23:37 2023 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2023 18:23:37 +0100 Subject: is strictly a name In-Reply-To: <76a6ebf7-7c63-c8ed-6c47-1da23d6170f5@researchware.com> References: <76a6ebf7-7c63-c8ed-6c47-1da23d6170f5@researchware.com> Message-ID: <2336faa71ba8ce663a76639acf421766@livecode.com> On 2023-09-01 17:44, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > I may just be experiencing a brain fart, but I have read the release > notes several times, and I don't understand the purpose of the new: > > is strictly a name > > operator? Can someone explain its purpose in really basic terms or > examples? Its purposes is so that it is possible to tell when a value is a 'name' rather than a 'string' when the distinction is important. The cases where this is true are few and far between - indeed, the use-case it was added for was so that the exact runtime type of constant values generated when parsing script (e.g. from constant initializers) is preserved. There are two kinds of strings internally - strings and names. All names are strings, but not all strings are names. The difference is that there is only ever one instance of a name with a given string in memory - e.g. if two variables hold a name whose string is "foo", then they will hold the same pointer. As to what names are - they are an optimization for cases where the engine will often do comparisons between them. Names are implemented in a global hash table in such a way that caseless and case-sensitive comparisons are constant time (when both values being compared are names). The keys of an array are names - which means the engine never has to compare the actual characters of a key in an array as it does a lookup. Literals in scripts are stored as names - so if you have 100 instances of the string constant "foobar" throughout all your scripts as literals - there will only actually be one instance of "foobar" Similarly, internally, object names, handler names and variable names are all stored as, well, names (again - because they are commonly compared against each other). Some examples of where you can observe a name are: put "foo" is strictly a name => true put ("foo" & empty) is strictly a name => false repeat for each key tFoo in { "foo": true } put tFoo is a strictly a name => true end repeat There might be a few other places where you could see a name rather than a string, but as mentioned above - its unlikely that 99.9% of people would ever need to worry about it :) Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Build Amazing Things From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri Sep 1 13:36:29 2023 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 13:36:29 -0400 Subject: UUID v7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: why would reducing randomness be desirable in an internet-facing app? isn't the whole point to * ensure uniqueness across the entire space * make it nearly impossible to guess an ID? i would think that once you make the id's sequential, you have eliminated the ability to stop an authorized user from randomly marching through your data. On Fri, Sep 1, 2023 at 1:21 PM Tom Glod via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi Folks, > > Sharing this because its useful, and also, more eyeballs on the code makes > sense. > I implemented this with the help of chatGPT. > > This is a handler that can generate v7 UUIDs. > v7 UUIDs work better in databases, because they are not so random, > improving performance. > And they are sequential. > They also match the format of uuid v4 > Also the specs for v7 have not yet been finalized. > > Here it is: > > function CreateUUID pVersion > // This Handler returns a > if pVersion is not 7 then > //Return V4 Random UUID > return uuid("random") > > else if pVersion = 7 then > // return V7 Random yet sequenced UUID > > local tUnixTsMs, tVer, tRandA, tTVar, tRandB, tTheID > -- Get the current timestamp in milliseconds > > put baseConvert(the milliseconds, 10, 16) into tUnixTsMs > put format("%012s", tUnixTsMs) into tUnixTsMs > > // Set the version field to 0b0111 (7) > put "7" into tVer > > // Generate 12 bits of pseudo-random data for RAND A > put random(4095) into tRandA -- 4095 is the maximum value for 12 bits > put baseConvert(tRandA, 10, 16) into tRandA > put format("%03s", tRandA) into tRandA > > // Set the variant field to 0b10 > put "8" into tTVar -- 0b10 in hexadecimal > > // Generate 62 bits of pseudo-random data for RAND B > repeat 16 times > put baseConvert(random(15), 10, 16) after tRandB -- generate one > hex digit at a time > end repeat > > // Combine all the bits to form the UUID > put tUnixTsMs & tVer & tRandA & tTVar & tRandB into tTheID > > // Insert dashes to form the UUID in 8-4-4-4-12 format > put char 1 to 8 of tTheID & "-" & char 9 to 12 of tTheID & "-" & char > 13 to 16 of tTheID & "-" & char 17 to 20 of tTheID & "-" & char 21 to 32 of > tTheID into tTheID > > return tTheID > end if > end CreateUUID tVersion > > Cheers, > > Tom > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From tom at makeshyft.com Fri Sep 1 13:54:51 2023 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 13:54:51 -0400 Subject: UUID v7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Mike, Sometimes you just don't need uniqueness across all bits, and if you do, use v4. In my example, the ID is used for clipboard clips, but now I don't have to sort them based on their timestamp. Also this improves database performance as the btree is better organized. There are a few videos and lots of papers on the topic. On Fri, Sep 1, 2023 at 1:38 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > why would reducing randomness be desirable in an internet-facing app? isn't > the whole point to > * ensure uniqueness across the entire space > * make it nearly impossible to guess an ID? > i would think that once you make the id's sequential, you have eliminated > the ability to stop an authorized user from randomly marching through your > data. > > On Fri, Sep 1, 2023 at 1:21 PM Tom Glod via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > Hi Folks, > > > > Sharing this because its useful, and also, more eyeballs on the code > makes > > sense. > > I implemented this with the help of chatGPT. > > > > This is a handler that can generate v7 UUIDs. > > v7 UUIDs work better in databases, because they are not so random, > > improving performance. > > And they are sequential. > > They also match the format of uuid v4 > > Also the specs for v7 have not yet been finalized. > > > > Here it is: > > > > function CreateUUID pVersion > > // This Handler returns a > > if pVersion is not 7 then > > //Return V4 Random UUID > > return uuid("random") > > > > else if pVersion = 7 then > > // return V7 Random yet sequenced UUID > > > > local tUnixTsMs, tVer, tRandA, tTVar, tRandB, tTheID > > -- Get the current timestamp in milliseconds > > > > put baseConvert(the milliseconds, 10, 16) into tUnixTsMs > > put format("%012s", tUnixTsMs) into tUnixTsMs > > > > // Set the version field to 0b0111 (7) > > put "7" into tVer > > > > // Generate 12 bits of pseudo-random data for RAND A > > put random(4095) into tRandA -- 4095 is the maximum value for 12 > bits > > put baseConvert(tRandA, 10, 16) into tRandA > > put format("%03s", tRandA) into tRandA > > > > // Set the variant field to 0b10 > > put "8" into tTVar -- 0b10 in hexadecimal > > > > // Generate 62 bits of pseudo-random data for RAND B > > repeat 16 times > > put baseConvert(random(15), 10, 16) after tRandB -- generate one > > hex digit at a time > > end repeat > > > > // Combine all the bits to form the UUID > > put tUnixTsMs & tVer & tRandA & tTVar & tRandB into tTheID > > > > // Insert dashes to form the UUID in 8-4-4-4-12 format > > put char 1 to 8 of tTheID & "-" & char 9 to 12 of tTheID & "-" & > char > > 13 to 16 of tTheID & "-" & char 17 to 20 of tTheID & "-" & char 21 to 32 > of > > tTheID into tTheID > > > > return tTheID > > end if > > end CreateUUID tVersion > > > > Cheers, > > > > Tom > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri Sep 1 15:00:59 2023 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 15:00:59 -0400 Subject: UUID v7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: it's an interesting topic, because in one of the db communities i'm involved with, they're actually going the other way, increasing entropy. On Fri, Sep 1, 2023 at 1:56 PM Tom Glod via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi Mike, > > Sometimes you just don't need uniqueness across all bits, and if you do, > use v4. > In my example, the ID is used for clipboard clips, but now I don't have to > sort them based on their timestamp. > Also this improves database performance as the btree is better organized. > There are a few videos and lots of papers on the topic. > > > On Fri, Sep 1, 2023 at 1:38 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > why would reducing randomness be desirable in an internet-facing app? > isn't > > the whole point to > > * ensure uniqueness across the entire space > > * make it nearly impossible to guess an ID? > > i would think that once you make the id's sequential, you have eliminated > > the ability to stop an authorized user from randomly marching through > your > > data. > > > > On Fri, Sep 1, 2023 at 1:21 PM Tom Glod via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > > Hi Folks, > > > > > > Sharing this because its useful, and also, more eyeballs on the code > > makes > > > sense. > > > I implemented this with the help of chatGPT. > > > > > > This is a handler that can generate v7 UUIDs. > > > v7 UUIDs work better in databases, because they are not so random, > > > improving performance. > > > And they are sequential. > > > They also match the format of uuid v4 > > > Also the specs for v7 have not yet been finalized. > > > > > > Here it is: > > > > > > function CreateUUID pVersion > > > // This Handler returns a > > > if pVersion is not 7 then > > > //Return V4 Random UUID > > > return uuid("random") > > > > > > else if pVersion = 7 then > > > // return V7 Random yet sequenced UUID > > > > > > local tUnixTsMs, tVer, tRandA, tTVar, tRandB, tTheID > > > -- Get the current timestamp in milliseconds > > > > > > put baseConvert(the milliseconds, 10, 16) into tUnixTsMs > > > put format("%012s", tUnixTsMs) into tUnixTsMs > > > > > > // Set the version field to 0b0111 (7) > > > put "7" into tVer > > > > > > // Generate 12 bits of pseudo-random data for RAND A > > > put random(4095) into tRandA -- 4095 is the maximum value for 12 > > bits > > > put baseConvert(tRandA, 10, 16) into tRandA > > > put format("%03s", tRandA) into tRandA > > > > > > // Set the variant field to 0b10 > > > put "8" into tTVar -- 0b10 in hexadecimal > > > > > > // Generate 62 bits of pseudo-random data for RAND B > > > repeat 16 times > > > put baseConvert(random(15), 10, 16) after tRandB -- generate > one > > > hex digit at a time > > > end repeat > > > > > > // Combine all the bits to form the UUID > > > put tUnixTsMs & tVer & tRandA & tTVar & tRandB into tTheID > > > > > > // Insert dashes to form the UUID in 8-4-4-4-12 format > > > put char 1 to 8 of tTheID & "-" & char 9 to 12 of tTheID & "-" & > > char > > > 13 to 16 of tTheID & "-" & char 17 to 20 of tTheID & "-" & char 21 to > 32 > > of > > > tTheID into tTheID > > > > > > return tTheID > > > end if > > > end CreateUUID tVersion > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Tom > > > _______________________________________________ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 1 15:22:17 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 19:22:17 +0000 Subject: is strictly a name In-Reply-To: <2336faa71ba8ce663a76639acf421766@livecode.com> References: <76a6ebf7-7c63-c8ed-6c47-1da23d6170f5@researchware.com> <2336faa71ba8ce663a76639acf421766@livecode.com> Message-ID: <677EF40F-2C3D-4A7C-B97C-C14B52592904@iotecdigital.com> I put “Bob” is strictly my name in the message box and got false. But then i tried “Bob” is my name and ALSO got false! Is that a bug?? 🤭 Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 1, 2023, at 10:24, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > > On 2023-09-01 17:44, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: >> I may just be experiencing a brain fart, but I have read the release notes several times, and I don't understand the purpose of the new: >> is strictly a name >> operator? Can someone explain its purpose in really basic terms or examples? > > Its purposes is so that it is possible to tell when a value is a 'name' rather than a 'string' when the distinction is important. The cases where this is true are few and far between - indeed, the use-case it was added for was so that the exact runtime type of constant values generated when parsing script (e.g. from constant initializers) is preserved. > > There are two kinds of strings internally - strings and names. All names are strings, but not all strings are names. > > The difference is that there is only ever one instance of a name with a given string in memory - e.g. if two variables hold a name whose string is "foo", then they will hold the same pointer. > > As to what names are - they are an optimization for cases where the engine will often do comparisons between them. > > Names are implemented in a global hash table in such a way that caseless and case-sensitive comparisons are constant time (when both values being compared are names). > > The keys of an array are names - which means the engine never has to compare the actual characters of a key in an array as it does a lookup. > > Literals in scripts are stored as names - so if you have 100 instances of the string constant "foobar" throughout all your scripts as literals - there will only actually be one instance of "foobar" > > Similarly, internally, object names, handler names and variable names are all stored as, well, names (again - because they are commonly compared against each other). > > Some examples of where you can observe a name are: > > put "foo" is strictly a name => true > > put ("foo" & empty) is strictly a name => false > > repeat for each key tFoo in { "foo": true } > put tFoo is a strictly a name => true > end repeat > > There might be a few other places where you could see a name rather than a string, but as mentioned above - its unlikely that 99.9% of people would ever need to worry about it :) > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > > -- > Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Build Amazing Things > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Fri Sep 1 15:29:10 2023 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 15:29:10 -0400 Subject: is strictly a name In-Reply-To: <2336faa71ba8ce663a76639acf421766@livecode.com> References: <76a6ebf7-7c63-c8ed-6c47-1da23d6170f5@researchware.com> <2336faa71ba8ce663a76639acf421766@livecode.com> Message-ID: <8775c016-45e3-99e6-befd-5f733a6aca20@researchware.com> Thank you Mark. I followed that explanation and now understand that - for all of my foreseeable applications - I can ignore 'is strictly a name' :-) Paul On 9/1/2023 1:23 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > On 2023-09-01 17:44, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: >> I may just be experiencing a brain fart, but I have read the release >> notes several times, and I don't understand the purpose of the new: >> >> is strictly a name >> >> operator? Can someone explain its purpose in really basic terms or >> examples? > > Its purposes is so that it is possible to tell when a value is a > 'name' rather than a 'string' when the distinction is important. The > cases where this is true are few and far between - indeed, the > use-case it was added for was so that the exact runtime type of > constant values generated when parsing script (e.g. from constant > initializers) is preserved. > > There are two kinds of strings internally - strings and names. All > names are strings, but not all strings are names. > > The difference is that there is only ever one instance of a name with > a given string in memory - e.g. if two variables hold a name whose > string is "foo", then they will hold the same pointer. > > As to what names are - they are an optimization for cases where the > engine will often do comparisons between them. > > Names are implemented in a global hash table in such a way that > caseless and case-sensitive comparisons are constant time (when both > values being compared are names). > > The keys of an array are names - which means the engine never has to > compare the actual characters of a key in an array as it does a lookup. > > Literals in scripts are stored as names - so if you have 100 instances > of the string constant "foobar" throughout all your scripts as > literals - there will only actually be one instance of "foobar" > > Similarly, internally, object names, handler names and variable names > are all stored as, well, names (again - because they are commonly > compared against each other). > > Some examples of where you can observe a name are: > >    put "foo" is strictly a name => true > >    put ("foo" & empty) is strictly a name => false > >    repeat for each key tFoo in { "foo": true } >      put tFoo is a strictly a name => true >    end repeat > > There might be a few other places where you could see a name rather > than a string, but as mentioned above - its unlikely that 99.9% of > people would ever need to worry about it :) > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > From dfe4 at cornell.edu Fri Sep 1 15:32:43 2023 From: dfe4 at cornell.edu (David Epstein) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 15:32:43 -0400 Subject: Pasting text and images together? Message-ID: To clarify my original question: I'm not expecting the built-in paste command to handle this task; I'm wondering if I can script my own paste command to handle it. Richmond, I can write a script to "paste" an image by itself (by creating an image and setting its text to clipboardData["image"]). But is there some way I can access both the text and the image that are on the clipboard after I have copied a combination of those from, e.g., a web browser? (Pasting to Apple Notes confirms that the clipboard contains both text and image.) From tom at makeshyft.com Fri Sep 1 15:53:22 2023 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 15:53:22 -0400 Subject: UUID v7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Oh yeah,that makes sense usually... just a different use case that is all. On Fri, Sep 1, 2023 at 3:02 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > it's an interesting topic, because in one of the db communities i'm > involved with, they're actually going the other way, increasing entropy. > > On Fri, Sep 1, 2023 at 1:56 PM Tom Glod via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > Hi Mike, > > > > Sometimes you just don't need uniqueness across all bits, and if you do, > > use v4. > > In my example, the ID is used for clipboard clips, but now I don't have > to > > sort them based on their timestamp. > > Also this improves database performance as the btree is better organized. > > There are a few videos and lots of papers on the topic. > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 1, 2023 at 1:38 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > > why would reducing randomness be desirable in an internet-facing app? > > isn't > > > the whole point to > > > * ensure uniqueness across the entire space > > > * make it nearly impossible to guess an ID? > > > i would think that once you make the id's sequential, you have > eliminated > > > the ability to stop an authorized user from randomly marching through > > your > > > data. > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 1, 2023 at 1:21 PM Tom Glod via use-livecode < > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Folks, > > > > > > > > Sharing this because its useful, and also, more eyeballs on the code > > > makes > > > > sense. > > > > I implemented this with the help of chatGPT. > > > > > > > > This is a handler that can generate v7 UUIDs. > > > > v7 UUIDs work better in databases, because they are not so random, > > > > improving performance. > > > > And they are sequential. > > > > They also match the format of uuid v4 > > > > Also the specs for v7 have not yet been finalized. > > > > > > > > Here it is: > > > > > > > > function CreateUUID pVersion > > > > // This Handler returns a > > > > if pVersion is not 7 then > > > > //Return V4 Random UUID > > > > return uuid("random") > > > > > > > > else if pVersion = 7 then > > > > // return V7 Random yet sequenced UUID > > > > > > > > local tUnixTsMs, tVer, tRandA, tTVar, tRandB, tTheID > > > > -- Get the current timestamp in milliseconds > > > > > > > > put baseConvert(the milliseconds, 10, 16) into tUnixTsMs > > > > put format("%012s", tUnixTsMs) into tUnixTsMs > > > > > > > > // Set the version field to 0b0111 (7) > > > > put "7" into tVer > > > > > > > > // Generate 12 bits of pseudo-random data for RAND A > > > > put random(4095) into tRandA -- 4095 is the maximum value for > 12 > > > bits > > > > put baseConvert(tRandA, 10, 16) into tRandA > > > > put format("%03s", tRandA) into tRandA > > > > > > > > // Set the variant field to 0b10 > > > > put "8" into tTVar -- 0b10 in hexadecimal > > > > > > > > // Generate 62 bits of pseudo-random data for RAND B > > > > repeat 16 times > > > > put baseConvert(random(15), 10, 16) after tRandB -- generate > > one > > > > hex digit at a time > > > > end repeat > > > > > > > > // Combine all the bits to form the UUID > > > > put tUnixTsMs & tVer & tRandA & tTVar & tRandB into tTheID > > > > > > > > // Insert dashes to form the UUID in 8-4-4-4-12 format > > > > put char 1 to 8 of tTheID & "-" & char 9 to 12 of tTheID & "-" > & > > > char > > > > 13 to 16 of tTheID & "-" & char 17 to 20 of tTheID & "-" & char 21 to > > 32 > > > of > > > > tTheID into tTheID > > > > > > > > return tTheID > > > > end if > > > > end CreateUUID tVersion > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > Tom > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > > subscription preferences: > > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > > and did a little diving. > > > And God said, "This is good." > > > _______________________________________________ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From gcanyon at gmail.com Fri Sep 1 17:38:58 2023 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 17:38:58 -0400 Subject: Sort bug In-Reply-To: <9DE07A74-F443-4C9F-AA16-66A2B17AC606@milby7.com> References: <9DE07A74-F443-4C9F-AA16-66A2B17AC606@milby7.com> Message-ID: With 9.6.9 on a mac and a field where the second and third items of each line are numbers: sort lines of fld 1 numeric by item 2 of each + item 3 of each -- works sort lines of fld 1 numeric by value(item 2 of each + item 3 of each) -- works sort lines of fld 1 numeric by merge("[[item 2 of each + item 3 of each]]") -- works and on mouseUp sort lines of fld 1 numeric by sortVal(each) end mouseUp function sortVal S return item 2 of S + item 3 of S end sortVal works. I haven't checked, but I'd guess that performance degrades with each further method. They all work if one or both of the items are empty. If there is an entry that has a non-numeric value in item 2 or 3: sort lines of fld 1 numeric by item 2 of each + item 3 of each -- partially sorts and throws an error sort lines of fld 1 numeric by value(item 2 of each + item 3 of each) -- partially sorts and throws an error sort lines of fld 1 numeric by merge("[[item 2 of each + item 3 of each]]") -- surprisingly, works -- error lines are seemingly sorted with a value of negative infinity? And the function sort also sorts based on a negative infinity value for errors. I'm not sure I'd consider that a bug. And this works: sort lines of fld 1 numeric by merge("") And of course sorting by this function does the same thing: function sortVal S if item 2 of S is not a number or item 3 of S is not a number then return 0 return item 2 of S + item 3 of S end sortVal On Thu, Aug 31, 2023 at 9:30 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I just tried this in 10dp5 and the sort didn’t completely bail (it put the > error value first) but it did error when including inline (as in the bug > report). If I add a try, then it will stop on the throw. Not sure how > much this would slow down execution though. > > function myVal pStr > local tResult > try > put item 1 of pStr + item 2 of pStr into tResult > catch errorVariable > throw "Bad data" > end try > return tResult > end myVal > > Brian Milby > brian at milby7.com > > > On Aug 31, 2023, at 7:53 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > >  > >> On 01/09/2023 00:37, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > >> The function is adding the value of two chunks together and returning > the result. How does that even compute? Unless the + operator is doing > something totally different here… > > > > The code said: > > > >> sort lines tVariable by myVal(each) > >> > >> where the function is for example > >> > >> function myVal pStr > >> return item 1 of pStr + item 2 of pStr > >> end myval > > since it's sorting the lines of the container, it calls the custom > function with each line in turn. The function simply adds together the > first two items from the passed-in line, and returns that. The returned > value is associated with the corresponding line - and then the container is > sorted by those associated values. > > > > This works fine if the input variable is well formatted (i.e. first and > second items of each line are numeric), but fails to give an error when > something goes wrong - such as a non-numeric item. > > > > (and, yes - the dictionary description is misleading, if not simply > incorrect. However, the "Tip" at the end describes the use of ustom > functions). > > > > Alex. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From paul at researchware.com Fri Sep 1 18:02:23 2023 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 18:02:23 -0400 Subject: Pasting text and images together? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <37b7d5c0-03a3-b1ae-1013-d734e715b302@researchware.com> If the App copying the mixed content places it on the clipboard as text and an image vs some mixed type, you may be able to do this Your have the on pasteKey message to trap CONTROL/COMMAND-V and if you have a "Paste" menu item, you control the script for that. the ClipboardData, the fullClipBoardData, and the rawClipboardData arrays (see Dictionary entries for each of these) give you access to the different elements on the clipboard. I epect the rawClipboardData will not really apply to this goal, but whether the ClipboardData or fullClipboardData would be better, I'm not sure Essential for either the pasteKey or menu paste action, you scrip wants to put the ClipboardData["text"] into tMyText -- the text copied to the clipboard put the ClipboardData["image"] into tMyImageData -- the text property of an image object As a test, you may need to write a small test handler on pastekey   local tClipArray, tFullClipArray   put the ClipBoardData into tClipArray   put the fullClipboardData into tFullClipArray   breakpoint end pasteKey Copy mixed data to your clipboard from your 3rd party app, switch to a test stack with the script above (not tested), and press the paste keys for your OS. The IDE debugger should appear and let you look at the arrays tClipArray and tFullClipArray to see how the data was translated from your 3rd party app. On 9/1/2023 3:32 PM, David Epstein via use-livecode wrote: > To clarify my original question: > > I'm not expecting the built-in paste command to handle this task; I'm > wondering if I can script my own paste command to handle it. > > Richmond, I can write a script to "paste" an image by itself (by creating > an image and setting its text to clipboardData["image"]). > > But is there some way I can access both the text and the image that are on > the clipboard after I have copied a combination of those from, e.g., a web > browser? (Pasting to Apple Notes confirms that the clipboard contains both > text and image.) > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Sep 1 18:31:09 2023 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 17:31:09 -0500 Subject: Pasting text and images together? In-Reply-To: <37b7d5c0-03a3-b1ae-1013-d734e715b302@researchware.com> References: <37b7d5c0-03a3-b1ae-1013-d734e715b302@researchware.com> Message-ID: On 9/1/23 5:02 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > If the App copying the mixed content places it on the clipboard as text and an image vs some > mixed type, you may be able to do this > > Your have the on pasteKey message to trap CONTROL/COMMAND-V and if you have a "Paste" menu > item, you control the script for that. Note that LC traps the pastekey message, so you need to suspend the IDE to test it. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Sep 1 18:35:49 2023 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 17:35:49 -0500 Subject: Shutdown on Android In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00cfaadd-a883-5564-a7e1-6d0dafff699f@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/31/23 5:36 PM, Dan Friedman via use-livecode wrote: > Does the shutdown message (or shutdownRequest message) work on Android? I am playing a song using androidStartAudioPlayingInBackground. However, if the app is closed (swiping up to exit it), then the audio continues to play. So, I added an androidStopAudioPlayingInBackground command in the shutdown message to stop playing the audio. But doesn’t seem to work – audio continues to play. > > Any thoughts? Mark Smith reminded me that the suspend and resume messages are now supported on mobile platforms. That might do it. My old brain forgot about that. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From mark at livecode.com Sat Sep 2 05:30:03 2023 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2023 10:30:03 +0100 Subject: Pasting text and images together? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You could poke around the raw clipboard data - this is platform specific (in terms of the keys) but gives a complete reflection of the system clipboard: lock clipboard put the keys of the rawClipboardData unlock clipboard This will dump what raw data types are present - then you can fetch using ‘the rawClipboardData[key]’. Note that you need to lock and unlock the clipboard around ‘raw’ access. Warmest regards, Mark. Sent from my iPhone > On 1 Sep 2023, at 20:33, David Epstein via use-livecode wrote: > > To clarify my original question: > > I'm not expecting the built-in paste command to handle this task; I'm > wondering if I can script my own paste command to handle it. > > Richmond, I can write a script to "paste" an image by itself (by creating > an image and setting its text to clipboardData["image"]). > > But is there some way I can access both the text and the image that are on > the clipboard after I have copied a combination of those from, e.g., a web > browser? (Pasting to Apple Notes confirms that the clipboard contains both > text and image.) > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dfe4 at cornell.edu Sat Sep 2 10:36:48 2023 From: dfe4 at cornell.edu (David Epstein) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2023 10:36:48 -0400 Subject: Pasting text and images together? Message-ID: Many thanks to Paul Dupuis and Mark Waddingham. The script below tries to test their suggestions. Using 10.0.0 dp5 on an Intel Mac, and watching execution after the breakpoint, I get errors at each "try" in the script. So it does not seem that I can write the fullClipboardData or rawClipboardData to an array variable; and it does not seem that I can access any element of the rawClipboardData array. Further advice is welcome. Best wishes, David Epstein *on* a2 *lock* clipboard *put* the keys of the clipboardData into myK1 *put* the keys of the fullClipboardData into myK2 *put* the keys of the rawClipboardData into myK3 *breakpoint* *try* *put* the fullClipboardData into ta2 *catch* myError *put* myError into e2 *end* *try* *try* *put* the rawClipboardData into ta3 *catch* myError *put* myError into e3 *end* *try* *put* 1 into n *repeat* for each line k in myK3 *try* *put* the rawClipboardData[k] into temp[n] *catch* myError *put* myError into e4[n] *end* *try* *add* 1 to n *end* *repeat* *unlock* clipboard *end* a2 From paul at researchware.com Sat Sep 2 11:13:08 2023 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2023 11:13:08 -0400 Subject: Pasting text and images together? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3814cd2a-0f20-2bbb-8783-42fc57e68705@researchware.com> Since my method didn't work, I'd try Marks, namely to put the keys of the clipboard array into a variable to look at on mouseUp   lock clipboard   put the keys of the clipboarddata into tKeys1   put the keys of the fullclipboarddata into tKeys2   put the keys of the rawclipboarddata into tkeys3   breakpoint   unlock clipboard end mouseUp I tested this in LC 10dp6 and it works. Once you see what keys are present with your mixed text and images copied to the clipboard, you can choose which clipboard array and keys to work with to get the data. -- Paul On 9/2/2023 10:36 AM, David Epstein via use-livecode wrote: > Many thanks to Paul Dupuis and Mark Waddingham. The script below tries to > test their suggestions. Using 10.0.0 dp5 on an Intel Mac, and watching > execution after the breakpoint, I get errors at each "try" in the script. > So it does not seem that I can write the fullClipboardData > or rawClipboardData to an array variable; and it does not seem that I can > access any element of the rawClipboardData array. Further advice is > welcome. > > Best wishes, > David Epstein > > *on* a2 > > *lock* clipboard > > *put* the keys of the clipboardData into myK1 > > *put* the keys of the fullClipboardData into myK2 > > *put* the keys of the rawClipboardData into myK3 > > *breakpoint* > > *try* > > *put* the fullClipboardData into ta2 > > *catch* myError > > *put* myError into e2 > > *end* *try* > > *try* > > *put* the rawClipboardData into ta3 > > *catch* myError > > *put* myError into e3 > > *end* *try* > > *put* 1 into n > > *repeat* for each line k in myK3 > > *try* > > *put* the rawClipboardData[k] into temp[n] > > *catch* myError > > *put* myError into e4[n] > > *end* *try* > > *add* 1 to n > > *end* *repeat* > > *unlock* clipboard > > *end* a2 > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dan at clearvisiontech.com Sat Sep 2 11:26:20 2023 From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2023 15:26:20 +0000 Subject: Shutdown on Android In-Reply-To: <00cfaadd-a883-5564-a7e1-6d0dafff699f@hyperactivesw.com> References: <00cfaadd-a883-5564-a7e1-6d0dafff699f@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Jacqueline, Thank you for the reply. I don’t think suspend and resume are going to help… If the app is playing music (in the foreground or the background) and the user brings up the list of running apps and swipes up to remove it, how can I trap that the app is being closed and stop playing music? -Dan From: use-livecode on behalf of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode Date: Friday, September 1, 2023 at 3:37 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: J. Landman Gay Subject: Re: Shutdown on Android On 8/31/23 5:36 PM, Dan Friedman via use-livecode wrote: > Does the shutdown message (or shutdownRequest message) work on Android? I am playing a song using androidStartAudioPlayingInBackground. However, if the app is closed (swiping up to exit it), then the audio continues to play. So, I added an androidStopAudioPlayingInBackground command in the shutdown message to stop playing the audio. But doesn’t seem to work – audio continues to play. > > Any thoughts? Mark Smith reminded me that the suspend and resume messages are now supported on mobile platforms. That might do it. My old brain forgot about that. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From marksmithhfx at gmail.com Sat Sep 2 12:39:22 2023 From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2023 17:39:22 +0100 Subject: Shutdown on Android In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dan, have a look at suspend in the dictionary for LC 10 dp6. It is sent to the current card when the application moves to the background so I think you’ll need an ON SUSPEND handler in the card script. I havent actually tried it yet. Mark Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 2, 2023, at 4:27 PM, Dan Friedman via use-livecode wrote: > > Jacqueline, > > Thank you for the reply. I don’t think suspend and resume are going to help… If the app is playing music (in the foreground or the background) and the user brings up the list of running apps and swipes up to remove it, how can I trap that the app is being closed and stop playing music? > > -Dan > > > > From: use-livecode on behalf of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode > Date: Friday, September 1, 2023 at 3:37 PM > To: How to use LiveCode > Cc: J. Landman Gay > Subject: Re: Shutdown on Android >> On 8/31/23 5:36 PM, Dan Friedman via use-livecode wrote: >> Does the shutdown message (or shutdownRequest message) work on Android? I am playing a song using androidStartAudioPlayingInBackground. However, if the app is closed (swiping up to exit it), then the audio continues to play. So, I added an androidStopAudioPlayingInBackground command in the shutdown message to stop playing the audio. But doesn’t seem to work – audio continues to play. >> >> Any thoughts? > > Mark Smith reminded me that the suspend and resume messages are now supported on mobile > platforms. That might do it. > > My old brain forgot about that. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Sep 2 13:31:32 2023 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2023 12:31:32 -0500 Subject: Shutdown on Android In-Reply-To: References: <00cfaadd-a883-5564-a7e1-6d0dafff699f@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <18a56f32d20.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> In my experience the app remains running when the recent apps are displayed, but if you continue by choosing another app then I think you should get either the shutdowns message or the suspend one. It's worth a try. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On September 2, 2023 10:27:13 AM Dan Friedman wrote: > Jacqueline, > > Thank you for the reply. I dont think suspend and resume are going to > help If the app is playing music (in the foreground or the background) and > the user brings up the list of running apps and swipes up to remove it, how > can I trap that the app is being closed and stop playing music? > > -Dan From dfe4 at cornell.edu Sat Sep 2 17:07:10 2023 From: dfe4 at cornell.edu (David Epstein) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2023 17:07:10 -0400 Subject: Pasting text and images together Message-ID: Paul, getting the keys of the rawClipboardData worked for me too. What didn’t work was trying to read the values. See this part of my script, I hope shown this time without the asterisks gMail added before: lock clipboard … put the keys of the rawClipboardData into myK3 ## THIS WORKS … repeat for each line k in myK3 try put the rawClipboardData[k] into temp[n] ## DOESN’T WORK catch myError put myError into e4[n] ## ERROR IS TRIGGERED end try add 1 to n end repeat unlock clipboard > From: Paul Dupuis > To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Subject: Re: Pasting text and images together? > Message-ID: <3814cd2a-0f20-2bbb-8783-42fc57e68705 at researchware.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed > > Since my method didn't work, I'd try Marks, namely to put the keys of > the clipboard array into a variable to look at > > on mouseUp > ? lock clipboard > ? put the keys of the clipboarddata into tKeys1 > ? put the keys of the fullclipboarddata into tKeys2 > ? put the keys of the rawclipboarddata into tkeys3 > ? breakpoint > ? unlock clipboard > end mouseUp > > I tested this in LC 10dp6 and it works. Once you see what keys are > present with your mixed text and images copied to the clipboard, you can > choose which clipboard array and keys to work with to get the data. > > -- Paul > > >> On 9/2/2023 10:36 AM, David Epstein via use-livecode wrote: >> Many thanks to Paul Dupuis and Mark Waddingham. The script below tries to >> test their suggestions. Using 10.0.0 dp5 on an Intel Mac, and watching >> execution after the breakpoint, I get errors at each "try" in the script. >> So it does not seem that I can write the fullClipboardData >> or rawClipboardData to an array variable; and it does not seem that I can >> access any element of the rawClipboardData array. Further advice is >> welcome. >> >> Best wishes, >> David Epstein >> >> *on* a2 >> >> *lock* clipboard >> >> *put* the keys of the clipboardData into myK1 >> >> *put* the keys of the fullClipboardData into myK2 >> >> *put* the keys of the rawClipboardData into myK3 >> >> *breakpoint* >> >> *try* >> >> *put* the fullClipboardData into ta2 >> >> *catch* myError >> >> *put* myError into e2 >> >> *end* *try* >> >> *try* >> >> *put* the rawClipboardData into ta3 >> >> *catch* myError >> >> *put* myError into e3 >> >> *end* *try* >> >> *put* 1 into n >> >> *repeat* for each line k in myK3 >> >> *try* >> >> *put* the rawClipboardData[k] into temp[n] >> >> *catch* myError >> >> *put* myError into e4[n] >> >> *end* *try* >> >> *add* 1 to n >> >> *end* *repeat* >> >> *unlock* clipboard >> >> *end* a2 From paul at researchware.com Sat Sep 2 18:24:32 2023 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2023 18:24:32 -0400 Subject: Pasting text and images together In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9693e16b-f1b2-dc6f-9d03-a2d1a185f108@researchware.com> Your right. Something about the rawClipboardData fails with an error. Trying the fullClipboardData (code below) works. My guess is that there may be something about the first key (on my Windows system that is "text/html" where the slash is causing an error?  I'd need to look at it further - perhaps skip that key and try others. This may be a bug that may be worth reporting in the LC Quality center. You might get what you want from the fullClipboardData (below) on mouseUp pMouseButton   local n=1   lock clipboard   --   put the keys of the fullClipboardData into myK3  ## THIS WORKS   --   repeat for each line k in myK3     try       put the fullClipboardData[k] into temp[n]  ## DOESNT WORK     catch myError       put myError into e4[n] ## ERROR IS TRIGGERED     end try     add 1 to n   end repeat   unlock clipboard end mouseUp On 9/2/2023 5:07 PM, David Epstein via use-livecode wrote: > Paul, getting the keys of the rawClipboardData worked for me too. What didnt work was trying to read the values. See this part of my script, I hope shown this time without the asterisks gMail added before: > > lock clipboard > > put the keys of the rawClipboardData into myK3 ## THIS WORKS > > repeat for each line k in myK3 > try > put the rawClipboardData[k] into temp[n] ## DOESNT WORK > catch myError > put myError into e4[n] ## ERROR IS TRIGGERED > end try > add 1 to n > end repeat > unlock clipboard > > > >> From: Paul Dupuis >> To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Subject: Re: Pasting text and images together? >> Message-ID: <3814cd2a-0f20-2bbb-8783-42fc57e68705 at researchware.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed >> >> Since my method didn't work, I'd try Marks, namely to put the keys of >> the clipboard array into a variable to look at >> >> on mouseUp >> ? lock clipboard >> ? put the keys of the clipboarddata into tKeys1 >> ? put the keys of the fullclipboarddata into tKeys2 >> ? put the keys of the rawclipboarddata into tkeys3 >> ? breakpoint >> ? unlock clipboard >> end mouseUp >> >> I tested this in LC 10dp6 and it works. Once you see what keys are >> present with your mixed text and images copied to the clipboard, you can >> choose which clipboard array and keys to work with to get the data. >> >> -- Paul >> >> >>> On 9/2/2023 10:36 AM, David Epstein via use-livecode wrote: >>> Many thanks to Paul Dupuis and Mark Waddingham. The script below tries to >>> test their suggestions. Using 10.0.0 dp5 on an Intel Mac, and watching >>> execution after the breakpoint, I get errors at each "try" in the script. >>> So it does not seem that I can write the fullClipboardData >>> or rawClipboardData to an array variable; and it does not seem that I can >>> access any element of the rawClipboardData array. Further advice is >>> welcome. >>> >>> Best wishes, >>> David Epstein >>> >>> *on* a2 >>> >>> *lock* clipboard >>> >>> *put* the keys of the clipboardData into myK1 >>> >>> *put* the keys of the fullClipboardData into myK2 >>> >>> *put* the keys of the rawClipboardData into myK3 >>> >>> *breakpoint* >>> >>> *try* >>> >>> *put* the fullClipboardData into ta2 >>> >>> *catch* myError >>> >>> *put* myError into e2 >>> >>> *end* *try* >>> >>> *try* >>> >>> *put* the rawClipboardData into ta3 >>> >>> *catch* myError >>> >>> *put* myError into e3 >>> >>> *end* *try* >>> >>> *put* 1 into n >>> >>> *repeat* for each line k in myK3 >>> >>> *try* >>> >>> *put* the rawClipboardData[k] into temp[n] >>> >>> *catch* myError >>> >>> *put* myError into e4[n] >>> >>> *end* *try* >>> >>> *add* 1 to n >>> >>> *end* *repeat* >>> >>> *unlock* clipboard >>> >>> *end* a2 > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Sat Sep 2 20:18:18 2023 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au) Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2023 10:18:18 +1000 Subject: sort bug In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <05140c1e777df65d8eddac9079e80d0e1350d3b7@webmail.optusnet.com.au> Geoff Canyon wrote (after a bravura  display of how many different ways there are to do things in LC!) : And the function sort also sorts based on a negative infinity value for errors. I'm not sure I'd consider that a bug. Hmm. I would. The sortKey function should tolerate any sort of run-time error? But anyway that's not the issue. The bug I see is that the sort command exits its containing handler - actually I presume the sortKey function exits to top - without throwing an error, so nothing  beyond that line is executed. This creates a very difficult problem to track down, since the code appears to be executing correctly, until something falls over or a file gets corrupted much later because some stuff never happened.  Of course one should always validate data, particularly if it's not your own data. In this case it was my own data! Moreover I had thought I had checked for invalid cases, just hadn't checked all possible kinds of invalid data (the sortKey was rather more complicated than the one I used for illustration). Neville ------------------------- Email sent using Optus Webmail From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Sat Sep 2 20:59:02 2023 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2023 02:59:02 +0200 Subject: Sorting by item ... of each and item ... of each Message-ID: <02EB4D6F-9825-4D07-8FD3-90A627F20FE4@m-r-d.de> Maybe i do not see the forest for the trees.... I have a tab delimited list which i want to sort. I am using this code to sort it by item 3 and item 2 set the itemdelimiter to tab sort lines of tList numeric by item 3 of each and item 2 of each. But that code does not sort as i expected it. Column 2 is not sorted correctly. The following list is the result. 113254;8420;3016365 113254;8423;3016365 113254;8422;3016365 113254;8420;3016365 113254;8420;3016365 113254;8420;3016365 113254;8421;3016365 203212;8420;3016366 203212;8423;3016366 203212;8422;3016366 203212;8420;3016366 My expectation for example was that for value 3016365 in column 3 the values in Col 2 would be sorted like this 113254;8423;3016365 113254;8422;3016365 113254;8421;3016365 113254;8420;3016365 113254;8420;3016365 113254;8420;3016365 113254;8420;3016365 Tried also 'by item 2 of each and item 3 of each', but the sort result is the same? Am i missing something? Regards, Matthias From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Sat Sep 2 21:03:00 2023 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2023 03:03:00 +0200 Subject: Sorting by item ... of each and item ... of each In-Reply-To: <02EB4D6F-9825-4D07-8FD3-90A627F20FE4@m-r-d.de> References: <02EB4D6F-9825-4D07-8FD3-90A627F20FE4@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <277E785C-4B96-46B5-956F-0346B232B79A@m-r-d.de> Of course my "not working" sort code look like this set the itemdelimiter to ";" sort lines of tList numeric by item 3 of each and item 2 of each. > Am 03.09.2023 um 02:59 schrieb matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de: > > Maybe i do not see the forest for the trees.... > > I have a tab delimited list which i want to sort. I am using this code to sort it by item 3 and item 2 > > set the itemdelimiter to tab > sort lines of tList numeric by item 3 of each and item 2 of each. > > But that code does not sort as i expected it. Column 2 is not sorted correctly. > The following list is the result. > > 113254;8420;3016365 > 113254;8423;3016365 > 113254;8422;3016365 > 113254;8420;3016365 > 113254;8420;3016365 > 113254;8420;3016365 > 113254;8421;3016365 > 203212;8420;3016366 > 203212;8423;3016366 > 203212;8422;3016366 > 203212;8420;3016366 > > > My expectation for example was that for value 3016365 in column 3 the values in Col 2 would be sorted like this > > 113254;8423;3016365 > 113254;8422;3016365 > 113254;8421;3016365 > 113254;8420;3016365 > 113254;8420;3016365 > 113254;8420;3016365 > 113254;8420;3016365 > > Tried also 'by item 2 of each and item 3 of each', but the sort result is the same? > > Am i missing something? > > Regards, > Matthias > From phil at pdslabs.net Sun Sep 3 01:22:39 2023 From: phil at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2023 22:22:39 -0700 Subject: Sorting by item ... of each and item ... of each In-Reply-To: <277E785C-4B96-46B5-956F-0346B232B79A@m-r-d.de> References: <02EB4D6F-9825-4D07-8FD3-90A627F20FE4@m-r-d.de> <277E785C-4B96-46B5-956F-0346B232B79A@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <6c60b460-aba4-eb4e-4702-8944cb9db226@pdslabs.net> I believe this works: on mouseUp     put fld 1 into tList     sort lines of tList by _sortKey(each)     put tList into fld 2 end mouseUp function _sortKey pLine     set the itemDel to ";"     return item 3 of pLine & ";" & item 2 of pLine end _sortKey I realize it isn't as simple as you were looking for, but at least it avoids doing 2 separate sorts. Phil Davis On 9/2/23 6:03 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > Of course my "not working" sort code look like this > > set the itemdelimiter to ";" > sort lines of tList numeric by item 3 of each and item 2 of each. > > > > >> Am 03.09.2023 um 02:59 schriebmatthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de: >> >> Maybe i do not see the forest for the trees.... >> >> I have a tab delimited list which i want to sort. I am using this code to sort it by item 3 and item 2 >> >> set the itemdelimiter to tab >> sort lines of tList numeric by item 3 of each and item 2 of each. >> >> But that code does not sort as i expected it. Column 2 is not sorted correctly. >> The following list is the result. >> >> 113254;8420;3016365 >> 113254;8423;3016365 >> 113254;8422;3016365 >> 113254;8420;3016365 >> 113254;8420;3016365 >> 113254;8420;3016365 >> 113254;8421;3016365 >> 203212;8420;3016366 >> 203212;8423;3016366 >> 203212;8422;3016366 >> 203212;8420;3016366 >> >> >> My expectation for example was that for value 3016365 in column 3 the values in Col 2 would be sorted like this >> >> 113254;8423;3016365 >> 113254;8422;3016365 >> 113254;8421;3016365 >> 113254;8420;3016365 >> 113254;8420;3016365 >> 113254;8420;3016365 >> 113254;8420;3016365 >> >> Tried also 'by item 2 of each and item 3 of each', but the sort result is the same? >> >> Am i missing something? >> >> Regards, >> Matthias >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Phil Davis (503) 307-4363 From merakosp at gmail.com Sun Sep 3 05:26:05 2023 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis m) Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2023 12:26:05 +0300 Subject: Sorting by item ... of each and item ... of each In-Reply-To: <6c60b460-aba4-eb4e-4702-8944cb9db226@pdslabs.net> References: <02EB4D6F-9825-4D07-8FD3-90A627F20FE4@m-r-d.de> <277E785C-4B96-46B5-956F-0346B232B79A@m-r-d.de> <6c60b460-aba4-eb4e-4702-8944cb9db226@pdslabs.net> Message-ID: Hello Matthias, I do not think that the syntax "sort by sortKey1 and sortKey2" is supported If you have multiple sortKeys, you have to do multiple sorts, for example, in your use case, this should work: set the itemdel to ";" sort lines of tList numeric by item 3 of each sort lines of tList numeric by item 2 of each Kind regards, Panos -- On Sun, 3 Sept 2023 at 08:23, Phil Davis via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I believe this works: > > on mouseUp > put fld 1 into tList > sort lines of tList by _sortKey(each) > put tList into fld 2 > end mouseUp > > > function _sortKey pLine > set the itemDel to ";" > return item 3 of pLine & ";" & item 2 of pLine > end _sortKey > > > I realize it isn't as simple as you were looking for, but at least it > avoids doing 2 separate sorts. > > Phil Davis > > > > On 9/2/23 6:03 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > > Of course my "not working" sort code look like this > > > > set the itemdelimiter to ";" > > sort lines of tList numeric by item 3 of each and item 2 of each. > > > > > > > > > >> Am 03.09.2023 um 02:59 schriebmatthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de: > >> > >> Maybe i do not see the forest for the trees.... > >> > >> I have a tab delimited list which i want to sort. I am using this code > to sort it by item 3 and item 2 > >> > >> set the itemdelimiter to tab > >> sort lines of tList numeric by item 3 of each and item 2 of each. > >> > >> But that code does not sort as i expected it. Column 2 is not sorted > correctly. > >> The following list is the result. > >> > >> 113254;8420;3016365 > >> 113254;8423;3016365 > >> 113254;8422;3016365 > >> 113254;8420;3016365 > >> 113254;8420;3016365 > >> 113254;8420;3016365 > >> 113254;8421;3016365 > >> 203212;8420;3016366 > >> 203212;8423;3016366 > >> 203212;8422;3016366 > >> 203212;8420;3016366 > >> > >> > >> My expectation for example was that for value 3016365 in column 3 the > values in Col 2 would be sorted like this > >> > >> 113254;8423;3016365 > >> 113254;8422;3016365 > >> 113254;8421;3016365 > >> 113254;8420;3016365 > >> 113254;8420;3016365 > >> 113254;8420;3016365 > >> 113254;8420;3016365 > >> > >> Tried also 'by item 2 of each and item 3 of each', but the sort > result is the same? > >> > >> Am i missing something? > >> > >> Regards, > >> Matthias > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > -- > Phil Davis > (503) 307-4363 > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From mark at livecode.com Sun Sep 3 05:49:30 2023 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2023 10:49:30 +0100 Subject: Sorting by item ... of each and item ... of each In-Reply-To: References: <02EB4D6F-9825-4D07-8FD3-90A627F20FE4@m-r-d.de> <277E785C-4B96-46B5-956F-0346B232B79A@m-r-d.de> <6c60b460-aba4-eb4e-4702-8944cb9db226@pdslabs.net> Message-ID: On 2023-09-03 10:26, panagiotis m via use-livecode wrote: > Hello Matthias, > > I do not think that the syntax "sort by sortKey1 and > sortKey2" > is supported Heh technically it 'is' - and does do something but it won't be what you expected... So the syntax for sort in this case is: sort by This works by iterating over the elements in , passing each through the expression to generate a sort key list, sorting that list and then reordering the original list. Expressions can contain the boolean 'and' operator, so: sort by X and Y Means that the sort key is evaluated as 'X and Y' for each element - meaning sort ends up sorting a list of 'true' and 'false' values. As Panos says, if you want to sort by separate fields with decreasing priority you need to do multiple sorts from least priority to most - this works because 'sort' is stable (if two elements compare the same, then the order of them in the output list is the same as the first). The alternative is to work out a sort expression which combines the two parts of the element you want to sort so that the sort keys sort in that order. This can be quite tricky, but (for example) - let's say your container has elements of the form: , So you want things in the 'obvious' sorted order - then you could use: sort tSections ascending text by format("%08d%08d", item 1 of each, item 2 of each) Here the sortkey is defined so that the text sort of the sort keys is that same as sorting first by sub-section number and then by section number. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Build Amazing Things From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Sun Sep 3 08:17:18 2023 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2023 14:17:18 +0200 Subject: Sorting by item ... of each and item ... of each In-Reply-To: <6c60b460-aba4-eb4e-4702-8944cb9db226@pdslabs.net> References: <02EB4D6F-9825-4D07-8FD3-90A627F20FE4@m-r-d.de> <277E785C-4B96-46B5-956F-0346B232B79A@m-r-d.de> <6c60b460-aba4-eb4e-4702-8944cb9db226@pdslabs.net> Message-ID: Thanks Phil, i will try. > Am 03.09.2023 um 07:22 schrieb Phil Davis via use-livecode : > > I believe this works: > > on mouseUp > put fld 1 into tList > sort lines of tList by _sortKey(each) > put tList into fld 2 > end mouseUp > > > function _sortKey pLine > set the itemDel to ";" > return item 3 of pLine & ";" & item 2 of pLine > end _sortKey > > > I realize it isn't as simple as you were looking for, but at least it avoids doing 2 separate sorts. > > Phil Davis > > > > On 9/2/23 6:03 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: >> Of course my "not working" sort code look like this >> >> set the itemdelimiter to ";" >> sort lines of tList numeric by item 3 of each and item 2 of each. >> >> >> >> >>> Am 03.09.2023 um 02:59 schriebmatthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de: >>> >>> Maybe i do not see the forest for the trees.... >>> >>> I have a tab delimited list which i want to sort. I am using this code to sort it by item 3 and item 2 >>> >>> set the itemdelimiter to tab >>> sort lines of tList numeric by item 3 of each and item 2 of each. >>> >>> But that code does not sort as i expected it. Column 2 is not sorted correctly. >>> The following list is the result. >>> >>> 113254;8420;3016365 >>> 113254;8423;3016365 >>> 113254;8422;3016365 >>> 113254;8420;3016365 >>> 113254;8420;3016365 >>> 113254;8420;3016365 >>> 113254;8421;3016365 >>> 203212;8420;3016366 >>> 203212;8423;3016366 >>> 203212;8422;3016366 >>> 203212;8420;3016366 >>> >>> >>> My expectation for example was that for value 3016365 in column 3 the values in Col 2 would be sorted like this >>> >>> 113254;8423;3016365 >>> 113254;8422;3016365 >>> 113254;8421;3016365 >>> 113254;8420;3016365 >>> 113254;8420;3016365 >>> 113254;8420;3016365 >>> 113254;8420;3016365 >>> >>> Tried also 'by item 2 of each and item 3 of each', but the sort result is the same? >>> >>> Am i missing something? >>> >>> Regards, >>> Matthias >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > -- > Phil Davis > (503) 307-4363 > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Sun Sep 3 08:20:51 2023 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2023 14:20:51 +0200 Subject: Sorting by item ... of each and item ... of each In-Reply-To: References: <02EB4D6F-9825-4D07-8FD3-90A627F20FE4@m-r-d.de> <277E785C-4B96-46B5-956F-0346B232B79A@m-r-d.de> <6c60b460-aba4-eb4e-4702-8944cb9db226@pdslabs.net> Message-ID: <4667FA3F-E267-4C97-A1F0-706D0A3A3DA6@m-r-d.de> Thanks Panos, you are right. ;) While reading your answer i remembered that i have done this with 2 separate sorts. I really don't know how i thought to use by sortKey1 and sortKey2 But at least the script editor did not return an error. Should not work so late in the night. Matthias > Am 03.09.2023 um 11:26 schrieb panagiotis m via use-livecode : > > Hello Matthias, > > I do not think that the syntax "sort by sortKey1 and sortKey2" > is supported > > If you have multiple sortKeys, you have to do multiple sorts, for example, > in your use case, this should work: > > set the itemdel to ";" > sort lines of tList numeric by item 3 of each > sort lines of tList numeric by item 2 of each > > Kind regards, > Panos > -- > > On Sun, 3 Sept 2023 at 08:23, Phil Davis via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> I believe this works: >> >> on mouseUp >> put fld 1 into tList >> sort lines of tList by _sortKey(each) >> put tList into fld 2 >> end mouseUp >> >> >> function _sortKey pLine >> set the itemDel to ";" >> return item 3 of pLine & ";" & item 2 of pLine >> end _sortKey >> >> >> I realize it isn't as simple as you were looking for, but at least it >> avoids doing 2 separate sorts. >> >> Phil Davis >> >> >> >> On 9/2/23 6:03 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: >>> Of course my "not working" sort code look like this >>> >>> set the itemdelimiter to ";" >>> sort lines of tList numeric by item 3 of each and item 2 of each. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> Am 03.09.2023 um 02:59 schriebmatthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de: >>>> >>>> Maybe i do not see the forest for the trees.... >>>> >>>> I have a tab delimited list which i want to sort. I am using this code >> to sort it by item 3 and item 2 >>>> >>>> set the itemdelimiter to tab >>>> sort lines of tList numeric by item 3 of each and item 2 of each. >>>> >>>> But that code does not sort as i expected it. Column 2 is not sorted >> correctly. >>>> The following list is the result. >>>> >>>> 113254;8420;3016365 >>>> 113254;8423;3016365 >>>> 113254;8422;3016365 >>>> 113254;8420;3016365 >>>> 113254;8420;3016365 >>>> 113254;8420;3016365 >>>> 113254;8421;3016365 >>>> 203212;8420;3016366 >>>> 203212;8423;3016366 >>>> 203212;8422;3016366 >>>> 203212;8420;3016366 >>>> >>>> >>>> My expectation for example was that for value 3016365 in column 3 the >> values in Col 2 would be sorted like this >>>> >>>> 113254;8423;3016365 >>>> 113254;8422;3016365 >>>> 113254;8421;3016365 >>>> 113254;8420;3016365 >>>> 113254;8420;3016365 >>>> 113254;8420;3016365 >>>> 113254;8420;3016365 >>>> >>>> Tried also 'by item 2 of each and item 3 of each', but the sort >> result is the same? >>>> >>>> Am i missing something? >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Matthias >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> -- >> Phil Davis >> (503) 307-4363 >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Sun Sep 3 08:29:13 2023 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2023 14:29:13 +0200 Subject: Sorting by item ... of each and item ... of each In-Reply-To: References: <02EB4D6F-9825-4D07-8FD3-90A627F20FE4@m-r-d.de> <277E785C-4B96-46B5-956F-0346B232B79A@m-r-d.de> <6c60b460-aba4-eb4e-4702-8944cb9db226@pdslabs.net> Message-ID: <390CF75E-1838-4E82-A430-834BF1CD38CF@m-r-d.de> Hello Mark, thanks for explanation and also for your solution. I will try. Maybe i should get my book "regular expressions" from Jeffrey E.F.Friedl from the shelf and should finish reading it, so i could make use of regular expressions in Livecode more often. Regards, Matthias > Am 03.09.2023 um 11:49 schrieb Mark Waddingham via use-livecode : > > On 2023-09-03 10:26, panagiotis m via use-livecode wrote: >> Hello Matthias, >> I do not think that the syntax "sort by sortKey1 and sortKey2" >> is supported > > Heh technically it 'is' - and does do something but it won't be what you expected... > > So the syntax for sort in this case is: > > sort by > > This works by iterating over the elements in , passing each through the expression to generate a sort key list, sorting that list and then reordering the original list. > > Expressions can contain the boolean 'and' operator, so: > > sort by X and Y > > Means that the sort key is evaluated as 'X and Y' for each element - meaning sort ends up sorting a list of 'true' and 'false' values. > > As Panos says, if you want to sort by separate fields with decreasing priority you need to do multiple sorts from least priority to most - this works because 'sort' is stable (if two elements compare the same, then the order of them in the output list is the same as the first). > > The alternative is to work out a sort expression which combines the two parts of the element you want to sort so that the sort keys sort in that order. This can be quite tricky, but (for example) - let's say your container has elements of the form: > > , > > So you want things in the 'obvious' sorted order - then you could use: > > sort tSections ascending text by format("%08d%08d", item 1 of each, item 2 of each) > > Here the sortkey is defined so that the text sort of the sort keys is that same as sorting first by sub-section number and then by section number. > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > > -- > Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Build Amazing Things > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From harrison at all-auctions.com Sun Sep 3 14:18:42 2023 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com) Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2023 14:18:42 -0400 Subject: Installing LC on Ubuntu? In-Reply-To: <4667FA3F-E267-4C97-A1F0-706D0A3A3DA6@m-r-d.de> References: <02EB4D6F-9825-4D07-8FD3-90A627F20FE4@m-r-d.de> <277E785C-4B96-46B5-956F-0346B232B79A@m-r-d.de> <6c60b460-aba4-eb4e-4702-8944cb9db226@pdslabs.net> <4667FA3F-E267-4C97-A1F0-706D0A3A3DA6@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: Hi there, I have been trying to install LiveCode on the latest “Jellyfish” version of Ubuntu by following the directions provided by LiveCode lesson: https://lessons.livecode.com/m/2571/l/148050-installing-livecode-on-linux I have found this lesson is now out of date and I am unable to successfully install LiveCode as a result. I can’t get the installer to execute. Can someone please kindly update the instructions so we can get the installer to work again? Thanks, Rick From ahsoftware at sonic.net Sun Sep 3 14:42:01 2023 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2023 11:42:01 -0700 Subject: Installing LC on Ubuntu? In-Reply-To: References: <02EB4D6F-9825-4D07-8FD3-90A627F20FE4@m-r-d.de> <277E785C-4B96-46B5-956F-0346B232B79A@m-r-d.de> <6c60b460-aba4-eb4e-4702-8944cb9db226@pdslabs.net> <4667FA3F-E267-4C97-A1F0-706D0A3A3DA6@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: On 9/3/23 11:18, harrison--- via use-livecode wrote: > Hi there, > > I have been trying to install LiveCode on > the latest Jellyfish version of Ubuntu > by following the directions provided by > LiveCode lesson: > > https://lessons.livecode.com/m/2571/l/148050-installing-livecode-on-linux > > I have found this lesson is now out of date and I am unable to > successfully install LiveCode as a result. I cant get the installer > to execute. > > Can someone please kindly update the instructions so we can > get the installer to work again? After setting the executable bit you should be able to just double-click the installer in the Downloads folder. Best to install for just you instead of the default "all users" to avoid having to use sudo. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From harrison at all-auctions.com Sun Sep 3 15:50:34 2023 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com) Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2023 15:50:34 -0400 Subject: Installing LC on Ubuntu? In-Reply-To: References: <02EB4D6F-9825-4D07-8FD3-90A627F20FE4@m-r-d.de> <277E785C-4B96-46B5-956F-0346B232B79A@m-r-d.de> <6c60b460-aba4-eb4e-4702-8944cb9db226@pdslabs.net> <4667FA3F-E267-4C97-A1F0-706D0A3A3DA6@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: Hi Mark, Thanks, I found that worked. I was misled by the old LiveCode lesson. Rick > On Sep 3, 2023, at 2:42 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > > After setting the executable bit you should be able to just double-click the installer in the Downloads folder. Best to install for just you instead of the default "all users" to avoid having to use sudo. From heather at livecode.com Mon Sep 4 06:13:02 2023 From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine) Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2023 11:13:02 +0100 Subject: Installing LC on Ubuntu? In-Reply-To: References: <02EB4D6F-9825-4D07-8FD3-90A627F20FE4@m-r-d.de> <277E785C-4B96-46B5-956F-0346B232B79A@m-r-d.de> <6c60b460-aba4-eb4e-4702-8944cb9db226@pdslabs.net> <4667FA3F-E267-4C97-A1F0-706D0A3A3DA6@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <8C1A07BA-268E-4C14-9B02-799B605142EF@livecode.com> Rick - could you leave a comment on the lesson? Then I can add it to the queue to be corrected/updated as needed. I could (and probably will) just add it to the queue anyway but I'd like to encourage people to comment on the lessons where they find issues, as we routinely address these and it helps to keep the lessons up to date. Best Regards, Heather Heather Laine Customer Services Manager LiveCode Ltd www.livecode.com > On 3 Sep 2023, at 20:50, harrison--- via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Mark, > > Thanks, I found that worked. > > I was misled by the old LiveCode lesson. > > Rick > >> On Sep 3, 2023, at 2:42 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: >> >> After setting the executable bit you should be able to just double-click the installer in the Downloads folder. Best to install for just you instead of the default "all users" to avoid having to use sudo. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From harrison at all-auctions.com Mon Sep 4 13:37:35 2023 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com) Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2023 13:37:35 -0400 Subject: Installing LC on Ubuntu? In-Reply-To: <8C1A07BA-268E-4C14-9B02-799B605142EF@livecode.com> References: <02EB4D6F-9825-4D07-8FD3-90A627F20FE4@m-r-d.de> <277E785C-4B96-46B5-956F-0346B232B79A@m-r-d.de> <6c60b460-aba4-eb4e-4702-8944cb9db226@pdslabs.net> <4667FA3F-E267-4C97-A1F0-706D0A3A3DA6@m-r-d.de> <8C1A07BA-268E-4C14-9B02-799B605142EF@livecode.com> Message-ID: <4817D340-861F-47AC-9071-08DC60E68FD8@all-auctions.com> Hi Heather, Done! Enjoy your day. Rick > On Sep 4, 2023, at 6:13 AM, Heather Laine via use-livecode wrote: > > Rick - could you leave a comment on the lesson? Then I can add it to the queue to be corrected/updated as needed. > > I could (and probably will) just add it to the queue anyway but I'd like to encourage people to comment on the lessons where they find issues, as we routinely address these and it helps to keep the lessons up to date. > > Best Regards, > > Heather > > Heather Laine > Customer Services Manager > LiveCode Ltd > www.livecode.com > > > >> On 3 Sep 2023, at 20:50, harrison--- via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Hi Mark, >> >> Thanks, I found that worked. >> >> I was misled by the old LiveCode lesson. >> >> Rick >> >>> On Sep 3, 2023, at 2:42 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> After setting the executable bit you should be able to just double-click the installer in the Downloads folder. Best to install for just you instead of the default "all users" to avoid having to use sudo. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dfe4 at cornell.edu Mon Sep 4 15:36:13 2023 From: dfe4 at cornell.edu (David Epstein) Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2023 15:36:13 -0400 Subject: Pasting text and images together Message-ID: <379311CB-470A-466A-84A1-F0A56BE56FAB@cornell.edu> I do not know how my problems accessing the rawClipboardData were overcome, but I succeeded in reading the array values there. So I was able to address my original question of how to reconstruct in LiveCode a combination of text and image copied from another program. Conclusion thus far: no success. If anyone is interested in this and might have some further suggestions, read on. When I use the control key to invoke from the contextual menu “copy image” on a web page, the fullClipboardData[“image”] gets a string of humanly unintelligible characters that, when used as the text of a LiveCode image object, shows the copied image. I did this for the picture of Robert Cailliau on webpage https://livecode.com/core-benefits-of-livecode/. Call this String A. To see how this information might be stored when I have copied both text and image, I selected from the word before to the word after that same picture, chose “Copy,” and then inspected the rawClipboardData["com.apple.flat-rtfd”], which seemed the most promising candidate of the various clipboardData array values. Call this String B. Something that looks kind of like String A appears in String B, but it is not the same. At char 4097 of String B I see the first few characters of the beginning of String A, and think this might define the PNG data to follow. But what follows is not the same as String A. Here’s the start of string A: âPNG IHDR,,y}éusRGBÆŒÈDeXIfMM*ái††,†,ÿ`ÇÁ at IDATxÏΩ And here’s char 4097ff of String B; âPNG IHDR,,y}éu IDATxúÏΩ{¨mYv÷˜sƵˆ„ÏÛ∏˜ú{Îvuuwuπ‹.€Ìˆ«!,d«2$qä¯a«9éCj,d°!dÅ"EâàB So my hope that String A could somehow be extracted from String B and used to “paste” the included image was disappointed. David Epstein From paul at researchware.com Mon Sep 4 16:03:43 2023 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2023 16:03:43 -0400 Subject: Pasting text and images together In-Reply-To: <379311CB-470A-466A-84A1-F0A56BE56FAB@cornell.edu> References: <379311CB-470A-466A-84A1-F0A56BE56FAB@cornell.edu> Message-ID: <397df2f2-80e0-82c7-8430-2ac3d93c3bf9@researchware.com> Do you have access to the Apple Developer web site? A search didn't tell me much but I find the side terrible useless. Following a bunch of variable type definitions I wandered to this page: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/foundation/nsattributedstring/1530578-rtfd Which also seemed useless to me. I was hoping to find some documentation that explicitly explained the format, rather than Apple API's to access the format. The Wikipedia entry seemed more helpful (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Text_Format_Directory) - it appears teh format is a "bundle" (or folder) of files, including an RTF file and how ever many media files. While I don't fully follow this Stackoverflow discussion (https://stackoverflow.com/questions/18722314/how-to-get-rtf-contents-from-uipasteboard-after-uiwebview-copy) it appears the clipboard contents is UTF8 encoded, so perhaps doing a textDecode of UTF8 and then looking at the result may be helpful? On 9/4/2023 3:36 PM, David Epstein via use-livecode wrote: > I do not know how my problems accessing the rawClipboardData were overcome, but I succeeded in reading the array values there. So I was able to address my original question of how to reconstruct in LiveCode a combination of text and image copied from another program. Conclusion thus far: no success. If anyone is interested in this and might have some further suggestions, read on. > > When I use the control key to invoke from the contextual menu copy image on a web page, the fullClipboardData[image] gets a string of humanly unintelligible characters that, when used as the text of a LiveCode image object, shows the copied image. I did this for the picture of Robert Cailliau on webpage https://livecode.com/core-benefits-of-livecode/. Call this String A. > > To see how this information might be stored when I have copied both text and image, I selected from the word before to the word after that same picture, chose Copy, and then inspected the rawClipboardData["com.apple.flat-rtfd], which seemed the most promising candidate of the various clipboardData array values. Call this String B. > > Something that looks kind of like String A appears in String B, but it is not the same. > > At char 4097 of String B I see the first few characters of the beginning of String A, and think this might define the PNG data to follow. But what follows is not the same as String A. > > Heres the start of string A: > > PNG > IHDR,,y}usRGBDeXIfMM*i,,`@IDATx > > And heres char 4097ff of String B; > > PNG > IHDR,,y}u IDATx{mYvs{vuuwu.!,d2$qa9Cj,d!d"EB > > So my hope that String A could somehow be extracted from String B and used to paste the included image was disappointed. > > David Epstein > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From craig at starfirelighting.com Tue Sep 5 10:29:49 2023 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2023 10:29:49 -0400 Subject: Sorting by item ... of each and item ... of each In-Reply-To: <390CF75E-1838-4E82-A430-834BF1CD38CF@m-r-d.de> References: <02EB4D6F-9825-4D07-8FD3-90A627F20FE4@m-r-d.de> <277E785C-4B96-46B5-956F-0346B232B79A@m-r-d.de> <6c60b460-aba4-eb4e-4702-8944cb9db226@pdslabs.net> <390CF75E-1838-4E82-A430-834BF1CD38CF@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <31967C70-63A6-4460-B43C-B6B9E11BFC96@starfirelighting.com> I may be simply misunderstanding… Since HC days, one could concatenate sort criteria using the “&” character, and obtain multiple stable sorts in one go. In LC as well, since given, in a field 1: 231 312 123 213 321 132 and in a button somewhere: on mouseUp get fld 1 sort it numeric by char 1 of each & char 3 of each answer it end mouseUp We get: 132 123 231 213 321 312 Craig > On Sep 3, 2023, at 8:29 AM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > > Hello Mark, > > thanks for explanation and also for your solution. I will try. > > Maybe i should get my book "regular expressions" from Jeffrey E.F.Friedl from the shelf and should finish reading it, so i could make use of regular expressions in Livecode more often. > > Regards, > Matthias > >> Am 03.09.2023 um 11:49 schrieb Mark Waddingham via use-livecode : >> >> On 2023-09-03 10:26, panagiotis m via use-livecode wrote: >>> Hello Matthias, >>> I do not think that the syntax "sort by sortKey1 and sortKey2" >>> is supported >> >> Heh technically it 'is' - and does do something but it won't be what you expected... >> >> So the syntax for sort in this case is: >> >> sort by >> >> This works by iterating over the elements in , passing each through the expression to generate a sort key list, sorting that list and then reordering the original list. >> >> Expressions can contain the boolean 'and' operator, so: >> >> sort by X and Y >> >> Means that the sort key is evaluated as 'X and Y' for each element - meaning sort ends up sorting a list of 'true' and 'false' values. >> >> As Panos says, if you want to sort by separate fields with decreasing priority you need to do multiple sorts from least priority to most - this works because 'sort' is stable (if two elements compare the same, then the order of them in the output list is the same as the first). >> >> The alternative is to work out a sort expression which combines the two parts of the element you want to sort so that the sort keys sort in that order. This can be quite tricky, but (for example) - let's say your container has elements of the form: >> >> , >> >> So you want things in the 'obvious' sorted order - then you could use: >> >> sort tSections ascending text by format("%08d%08d", item 1 of each, item 2 of each) >> >> Here the sortkey is defined so that the text sort of the sort keys is that same as sorting first by sub-section number and then by section number. >> >> Warmest Regards, >> >> Mark. >> >> -- >> Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ >> LiveCode: Build Amazing Things >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From craig at starfirelighting.com Tue Sep 5 12:53:45 2023 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2023 12:53:45 -0400 Subject: Sorting by item ... of each and item ... of each In-Reply-To: <31967C70-63A6-4460-B43C-B6B9E11BFC96@starfirelighting.com> References: <02EB4D6F-9825-4D07-8FD3-90A627F20FE4@m-r-d.de> <277E785C-4B96-46B5-956F-0346B232B79A@m-r-d.de> <6c60b460-aba4-eb4e-4702-8944cb9db226@pdslabs.net> <390CF75E-1838-4E82-A430-834BF1CD38CF@m-r-d.de> <31967C70-63A6-4460-B43C-B6B9E11BFC96@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: <9177DCD1-D088-4747-B82B-16897037AD55@starfirelighting.com> I should have given better context. I one only sorts the same field numeric, one gets: 123 132 213 231 312 321 Which is correct given the list of whole numbers in question. The stable sort allows one to then sort by char 3 of each, to get the result in the “compound” sort below. So am I missing something in all this? Craig > On Sep 5, 2023, at 10:29 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: > > I may be simply misunderstanding… > > Since HC days, one could concatenate sort criteria using the “&” character, and obtain multiple stable sorts in one go. In LC as well, since given, in a field 1: > > 231 > > 312 > > 123 > > 213 > > 321 > > 132 > > and in a button somewhere: > > on mouseUp > > get fld 1 > > sort it numeric by char 1 of each & char 3 of each > > answer it > > end mouseUp > > We get: > > 132 > > 123 > > 231 > > 213 > > 321 > > 312 > > > > Craig > > > > >> On Sep 3, 2023, at 8:29 AM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Hello Mark, >> >> thanks for explanation and also for your solution. I will try. >> >> Maybe i should get my book "regular expressions" from Jeffrey E.F.Friedl from the shelf and should finish reading it, so i could make use of regular expressions in Livecode more often. >> >> Regards, >> Matthias >> >>> Am 03.09.2023 um 11:49 schrieb Mark Waddingham via use-livecode : >>> >>> On 2023-09-03 10:26, panagiotis m via use-livecode wrote: >>>> Hello Matthias, >>>> I do not think that the syntax "sort by sortKey1 and sortKey2" >>>> is supported >>> >>> Heh technically it 'is' - and does do something but it won't be what you expected... >>> >>> So the syntax for sort in this case is: >>> >>> sort by >>> >>> This works by iterating over the elements in , passing each through the expression to generate a sort key list, sorting that list and then reordering the original list. >>> >>> Expressions can contain the boolean 'and' operator, so: >>> >>> sort by X and Y >>> >>> Means that the sort key is evaluated as 'X and Y' for each element - meaning sort ends up sorting a list of 'true' and 'false' values. >>> >>> As Panos says, if you want to sort by separate fields with decreasing priority you need to do multiple sorts from least priority to most - this works because 'sort' is stable (if two elements compare the same, then the order of them in the output list is the same as the first). >>> >>> The alternative is to work out a sort expression which combines the two parts of the element you want to sort so that the sort keys sort in that order. This can be quite tricky, but (for example) - let's say your container has elements of the form: >>> >>> , >>> >>> So you want things in the 'obvious' sorted order - then you could use: >>> >>> sort tSections ascending text by format("%08d%08d", item 1 of each, item 2 of each) >>> >>> Here the sortkey is defined so that the text sort of the sort keys is that same as sorting first by sub-section number and then by section number. >>> >>> Warmest Regards, >>> >>> Mark. >>> >>> -- >>> Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ >>> LiveCode: Build Amazing Things >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Tue Sep 5 17:05:50 2023 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2023 17:05:50 -0400 Subject: Sorting by item ... of each and item ... of each In-Reply-To: <277E785C-4B96-46B5-956F-0346B232B79A@m-r-d.de> References: <02EB4D6F-9825-4D07-8FD3-90A627F20FE4@m-r-d.de> <277E785C-4B96-46B5-956F-0346B232B79A@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <00e801d9e03c$c343f290$49cbd7b0$@net> You can at least detect if the sorting function has failed using a global variable. global s1 command test1 local t1 --put "10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1" into t1 -- This line will not show an error put "10,9,8,7a,6,5,4,3,2,1" into t1 -- This line will show an error put 0 into s1 sort items of t1 numeric by f1(each) if s1 <> the number of items in t1 then answer "Sort Function failed" put t1 & cr & s1 end test1 function f1 pEach local tEach put pEach into tEach add 1 to tEach add 1 to s1 return tEach end f1 Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of matthias rebbe via use-livecode Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2023 9:03 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Subject: Re: Sorting by item ... of each and item ... of each Of course my "not working" sort code look like this set the itemdelimiter to ";" sort lines of tList numeric by item 3 of each and item 2 of each. > Am 03.09.2023 um 02:59 schrieb matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de: > > Maybe i do not see the forest for the trees.... > > I have a tab delimited list which i want to sort. I am using this code to sort it by item 3 and item 2 > > set the itemdelimiter to tab > sort lines of tList numeric by item 3 of each and item 2 of each. > > But that code does not sort as i expected it. Column 2 is not sorted correctly. > The following list is the result. > > 113254;8420;3016365 > 113254;8423;3016365 > 113254;8422;3016365 > 113254;8420;3016365 > 113254;8420;3016365 > 113254;8420;3016365 > 113254;8421;3016365 > 203212;8420;3016366 > 203212;8423;3016366 > 203212;8422;3016366 > 203212;8420;3016366 > > > My expectation for example was that for value 3016365 in column 3 the values in Col 2 would be sorted like this > > 113254;8423;3016365 > 113254;8422;3016365 > 113254;8421;3016365 > 113254;8420;3016365 > 113254;8420;3016365 > 113254;8420;3016365 > 113254;8420;3016365 > > Tried also 'by item 2 of each and item 3 of each', but the sort result is the same? > > Am i missing something? > > Regards, > Matthias > _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From craig at starfirelighting.com Wed Sep 6 08:56:31 2023 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2023 08:56:31 -0400 Subject: Sorting by item ... of each and item ... of each In-Reply-To: <00e801d9e03c$c343f290$49cbd7b0$@net> References: <02EB4D6F-9825-4D07-8FD3-90A627F20FE4@m-r-d.de> <277E785C-4B96-46B5-956F-0346B232B79A@m-r-d.de> <00e801d9e03c$c343f290$49cbd7b0$@net> Message-ID: <39D6353E-0457-4D95-926E-4AD2DDDD04FF@starfirelighting.com> Matthias. I do not have your original data. But try using “&” instead of “and”. Craig > On Sep 5, 2023, at 5:05 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote: > > You can at least detect if the sorting function has failed using a global > variable. > > global s1 > > command test1 > local t1 > > --put "10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1" into t1 -- This line will not show an error > put "10,9,8,7a,6,5,4,3,2,1" into t1 -- This line will show an error > > put 0 into s1 > sort items of t1 numeric by f1(each) > > if s1 <> the number of items in t1 then answer "Sort Function failed" > put t1 & cr & s1 > > end test1 > > > function f1 pEach > local tEach > put pEach into tEach > add 1 to tEach > add 1 to s1 > return tEach > end f1 > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf > Of matthias rebbe via use-livecode > Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2023 9:03 PM > To: How to use LiveCode > Cc: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de > Subject: Re: Sorting by item ... of each and item ... of each > > Of course my "not working" sort code look like this > > set the itemdelimiter to ";" > sort lines of tList numeric by item 3 of each and item 2 of each. > > > > >> Am 03.09.2023 um 02:59 schrieb matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de: >> >> Maybe i do not see the forest for the trees.... >> >> I have a tab delimited list which i want to sort. I am using this code to > sort it by item 3 and item 2 >> >> set the itemdelimiter to tab >> sort lines of tList numeric by item 3 of each and item 2 of each. >> >> But that code does not sort as i expected it. Column 2 is not sorted > correctly. >> The following list is the result. >> >> 113254;8420;3016365 >> 113254;8423;3016365 >> 113254;8422;3016365 >> 113254;8420;3016365 >> 113254;8420;3016365 >> 113254;8420;3016365 >> 113254;8421;3016365 >> 203212;8420;3016366 >> 203212;8423;3016366 >> 203212;8422;3016366 >> 203212;8420;3016366 >> >> >> My expectation for example was that for value 3016365 in column 3 the > values in Col 2 would be sorted like this >> >> 113254;8423;3016365 >> 113254;8422;3016365 >> 113254;8421;3016365 >> 113254;8420;3016365 >> 113254;8420;3016365 >> 113254;8420;3016365 >> 113254;8420;3016365 >> >> Tried also 'by item 2 of each and item 3 of each', but the sort result > is the same? >> >> Am i missing something? >> >> Regards, >> Matthias >> > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jbv at souslelogo.com Wed Sep 6 09:22:20 2023 From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com) Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2023 09:22:20 -0400 Subject: LC server, on-rev and time zones Message-ID: <7592a0ecd9699f74cea485097d07cbaa@souslelogo.com> Hi list, How do you handle different time zones in server scripts ? For example, I and my clients are in Europe, so dates and times need to be consistent with the local time zone. But on-rev servers are located in the US East coast, so there is presently a 6 hours difference. Furthermore, switching from summer time to winter time (and back) occur at different dates in Europe and North America... How do you guys manage to keep everything consistent all year round ? Thanks you in advance. jbv From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Sep 6 09:39:12 2023 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2023 15:39:12 +0200 Subject: LC server, on-rev and time zones In-Reply-To: <7592a0ecd9699f74cea485097d07cbaa@souslelogo.com> References: <7592a0ecd9699f74cea485097d07cbaa@souslelogo.com> Message-ID: <5EE83064-0FA9-4D0C-87B0-DD2AC7F18FCD@m-r-d.de> You could try to set the $TZ variable. I did not try on On-Rev/LivecodeHosting, but on a HostM Server which also has Livecode Server installed. This script here for example would set the timezone first to Germany and outputs the current time and then for New York. <?lc put "Europe/Berlin" into $TZ set the twelvehourtime to false put the time put "
" put "America/New_York" into $TZ set the twelvehourtime to true put the time ?> > Am 06.09.2023 um 15:22 schrieb jbv via use-livecode : > > Hi list, > > How do you handle different time zones in server scripts ? > For example, I and my clients are in Europe, so dates and > times need to be consistent with the local time zone. > But on-rev servers are located in the US East coast, so > there is presently a 6 hours difference. > Furthermore, switching from summer time to winter time > (and back) occur at different dates in Europe and North > America... > How do you guys manage to keep everything consistent > all year round ? > > Thanks you in advance. > jbv > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jbv at souslelogo.com Wed Sep 6 10:05:27 2023 From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com) Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2023 10:05:27 -0400 Subject: LC server, on-rev and time zones In-Reply-To: <5EE83064-0FA9-4D0C-87B0-DD2AC7F18FCD@m-r-d.de> References: <7592a0ecd9699f74cea485097d07cbaa@souslelogo.com> <5EE83064-0FA9-4D0C-87B0-DD2AC7F18FCD@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <479b38cf5ab17454c10fbf9c2cbd7e2c@souslelogo.com> Just tested on On-Rev and it works. Thank you, that's very helpful. Le 2023-09-06 09:39, matthias rebbe via use-livecode a crit : > You could try to set the $TZ variable. I did not try on > On-Rev/LivecodeHosting, but on a HostM Server which also has Livecode > Server installed. > > This script here for example would set the timezone first to Germany > and outputs the current time and then for New York. > > > put "Europe/Berlin" into $TZ > set the twelvehourtime to false > put the time > put "
" > put "America/New_York" into $TZ > set the twelvehourtime to true > put the time > ?> > >> Am 06.09.2023 um 15:22 schrieb jbv via use-livecode >> : >> >> Hi list, >> >> How do you handle different time zones in server scripts ? >> For example, I and my clients are in Europe, so dates and >> times need to be consistent with the local time zone. >> But on-rev servers are located in the US East coast, so >> there is presently a 6 hours difference. >> Furthermore, switching from summer time to winter time >> (and back) occur at different dates in Europe and North >> America... >> How do you guys manage to keep everything consistent >> all year round ? >> >> Thanks you in advance. >> jbv >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Wed Sep 6 19:57:03 2023 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2023 09:57:03 +1000 Subject: Sort bug and also multilevel sorting Message-ID: <86B81444-2507-4063-98B7-27C55E381E1A@optusnet.com.au> Ralph: Interesting. Your code works as you present it, sorting the given items by the sortkey function f1 which adds 1 to each item. I do get the “sorting failed” dialog. But if I try the same thing using myVal modified as you suggest, which adds the first and second items of each line of data and then adds 1 to the global s1, I get the bug I reported: the handler simply exits without showing either the “sorting failed” or the “Done” answer dialog. I would have thought the two methods would generate the same error code, an incorrect operand in a sum, so this is strange! The function definitely returns on the error line, the value of s1 is not changed in the next line in either your f1 or my myVal. So perhaps the bug occurs when the processing returns to the sort code. Not something we can solve here, one for the engineers to sort out (!) Mark Waddingham says the sortKey function is intended to be tolerant of errors, simply returning the original value of ‘each’ - in your case each item, in my case each line. So it should either 1. Continue with the (undocumented) sort order OR 2a. exit to top AND 2b. drop into the debugger/errorDialog. In my example it is doing 2a but not 2b. Craig: The missing bit is that your method won’t work if the integers you are sorting by having different string lengths The lines 2,7 1,99 should, when sorted by numeric ascending (item 1 of each, item 2 of each) - which would be the appropriate syntax for a multilevel sort tho not in LC - result in 1.99 2,7 But if sorted by (item 1 of each & item 2 of each) - which concatenates as strings - gives sort keys 199 and 27 to result in 2,7 1,99 This can be fixed by formatting the numbers so they have the same length by padding with 0s, as MW noted. Once they have the same length you could actually sort lexically which may be a lot faster than sorting numerically (although my guess is using 2 separate sorts may be faster still at least for short lists). The concatenation method also won’t work if sorting real numbers: 1.0,0.2 1.0,0.1 since after concatenation the second decimal place would be ignored in a numeric sort. Neville Smythe From gcanyon at gmail.com Wed Sep 6 22:29:19 2023 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2023 22:29:19 -0400 Subject: sort bug In-Reply-To: <05140c1e777df65d8eddac9079e80d0e1350d3b7@webmail.optusnet.com.au> References: <05140c1e777df65d8eddac9079e80d0e1350d3b7@webmail.optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: >From the original email: If the function myVal encounters a run-time error (in the example if one of the items is not a number) the sort command fails silently: the script exits at that code line and the user is unaware that the sort (and the rest of the handler) were not executed. To be clear: the above is NOT what I'm seeing. Mark W says in the bug report: The 'sort ... by ...' command has always allowed the by expression to be fault tolerant - if evaluating it generates a runtime error then the sort key for that element is just taken to be the original element. And that is what I'm seeing. For example, this code does not exit -- it displays the answer dialog as if nothing out of the ordinary has happened: on mouseUp sort lines of fld 1 numeric by sortVal(each) answer "done" end mouseUp function sortVal S return item 2 of S + item 3 of S end sortVal It seems to be sorting as Mark described: when the function fails, the whole line is used for the sort. And that "fallback to the whole value needs better documentation, and could lead to some truly dismal debugging situations, but it doesn't seem like a bug to me. The original report, if I were able to replicate it, would clearly be a bug. On Sat, Sep 2, 2023 at 8:19 PM neville smythe via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Geoff Canyon wrote (after a bravura display of how many different > ways there are to do things in LC!) : > > And the function sort also sorts based on a negative infinity value > for > > errors. I'm not sure I'd consider that a bug. > > Hmm. I would. The sortKey function should tolerate any sort of > run-time error? But anyway that's not the issue. The bug I see is that > the sort command exits its containing handler - actually I presume the > sortKey function exits to top - without throwing an error, so nothing > beyond that line is executed. This creates a very difficult problem > to track down, since the code appears to be executing correctly, until > something falls over or a file gets corrupted much later because some > stuff never happened. > > Of course one should always validate data, particularly if it's not > your own data. In this case it was my own data! Moreover I had thought > I had checked for invalid cases, just hadn't checked all possible > kinds of invalid data (the sortKey was rather more complicated than > the one I used for illustration). > > Neville > > ------------------------- > Email sent using Optus Webmail > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From james at thehales.id.au Thu Sep 7 04:53:21 2023 From: james at thehales.id.au (James At The Hales) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2023 18:53:21 +1000 Subject: Responsive Layout and Opencard Message-ID: <0C9D1AC4-ACE7-45C6-8177-563C45776DA8@thehales.id.au> Is it my imagination or does using the responsive layout on a card trap the opencard message? I have a 2 card stack where card 2 is an info/help card. Both cards use the responsive layout widget. In order to position items and hide some I have an opencard handler on both cards But in going to the second card it didn’t seem to work. [it might1 not be working on card 1 either.] Testing for mobile (on the simulator) Finally I placed an extra fld on the card 2 and placed a ‘put’ into the fld to tell me what handler I was in. “In opencard” never appeared. I tried preopencard, but no that didn’t work either. After much swearing at my screen and almost giving up I remembered I was using the responsive layout. It then occurred to me that might be the issue. The workaround was to position my objects in the openstack handler. So my question is: is this normal that the responsive layout traps the opencard messages or is something else going on? James From craig at starfirelighting.com Thu Sep 7 09:12:09 2023 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2023 09:12:09 -0400 Subject: Sort bug and also multilevel sorting In-Reply-To: <86B81444-2507-4063-98B7-27C55E381E1A@optusnet.com.au> References: <86B81444-2507-4063-98B7-27C55E381E1A@optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <897E2B52-29B9-4FF4-A584-3E7C01EA4421@starfirelighting.com> Neville. My example was only to show that the sort command still maintains the ability to accept concatenated sort criteria. This allows a single line of code to do the work, and obviates the need for multiple sorts. In that sense it was a bad example to use character "places" in a string. This would not be an issue when using an explicit delimiter of some sort, typically what any sane coder would automatically do. Padding with zeros or spaces is the sort of kludge even I would blanch at. Craig > On Sep 6, 2023, at 7:57 PM, Neville Smythe via use-livecode wrote: > > Ralph: Interesting. Your code works as you present it, sorting the given items by the sortkey function f1 which adds 1 to each item. I do get the “sorting failed” dialog. > > But if I try the same thing using myVal modified as you suggest, which adds the first and second items of each line of data and then adds 1 to the global s1, I get the bug I reported: the handler simply exits without showing either the “sorting failed” or the “Done” answer dialog. > > I would have thought the two methods would generate the same error code, an incorrect operand in a sum, so this is strange! The function definitely returns on the error line, the value of s1 is not changed in the next line in either your f1 or my myVal. So perhaps the bug occurs when the processing returns to the sort code. Not something we can solve here, one for the engineers to sort out (!) > > Mark Waddingham says the sortKey function is intended to be tolerant of errors, simply returning the original value of ‘each’ - in your case each item, in my case each line. So it should either > > 1. Continue with the (undocumented) sort order OR > > 2a. exit to top AND 2b. drop into the debugger/errorDialog. In my example it is doing 2a but not 2b. > > Craig: The missing bit is that your method won’t work if the integers you are sorting by having different string lengths > > The lines > 2,7 > 1,99 > > should, when sorted by numeric ascending (item 1 of each, item 2 of each) - which would be the appropriate syntax for a multilevel sort tho not in LC - result in > 1.99 > 2,7 > > But if sorted by (item 1 of each & item 2 of each) - which concatenates as strings - gives sort keys 199 and 27 to result in > 2,7 > 1,99 > This can be fixed by formatting the numbers so they have the same length by padding with 0s, as MW noted. Once they have the same length you could actually sort lexically which may be a lot faster than sorting numerically (although my guess is using 2 separate sorts may be faster still at least for short lists). > > The concatenation method also won’t work if sorting real numbers: > 1.0,0.2 > 1.0,0.1 > since after concatenation the second decimal place would be ignored in a numeric sort. > > > Neville Smythe > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Sep 7 11:19:19 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2023 15:19:19 +0000 Subject: sort bug In-Reply-To: References: <05140c1e777df65d8eddac9079e80d0e1350d3b7@webmail.optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: For me, put "4,2,a,3,6" into tList;sort items of tList numeric ascending;put tList Results in: a,2,3,4,6 Bob S > On Sep 6, 2023, at 7:29 PM, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode wrote: > > From the original email: > > If the function myVal encounters a run-time error (in the example if one of > the items is not a number) the sort command fails silently: the script > exits at that code line and the user is unaware that the sort (and the rest > of the handler) were not executed. > > > To be clear: the above is NOT what I'm seeing. Mark W says in the bug > report: > > The 'sort ... by ...' command has always allowed the by expression to be > fault tolerant - if evaluating it generates a runtime error then the sort > key for that element is just taken to be the original element. > > And that is what I'm seeing. For example, this code does not exit -- it > displays the answer dialog as if nothing out of the ordinary has happened: > > on mouseUp > sort lines of fld 1 numeric by sortVal(each) > answer "done" > end mouseUp > > function sortVal S > return item 2 of S + item 3 of S > end sortVal > > It seems to be sorting as Mark described: when the function fails, the > whole line is used for the sort. And that "fallback to the whole value > needs better documentation, and could lead to some truly dismal debugging > situations, but it doesn't seem like a bug to me. > > The original report, if I were able to replicate it, would clearly be a bug. From craig at starfirelighting.com Thu Sep 7 11:46:38 2023 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2023 11:46:38 -0400 Subject: sort bug In-Reply-To: References: <05140c1e777df65d8eddac9079e80d0e1350d3b7@webmail.optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: Bob, If you remove the “numeric” the result is “2,3,4,6,a”. To me this implies that ASCII values are used as the sortKey. But that begs the issue why, as in your post, with “numeric” included, the “a” appears first. What makes the “a” a lower "numeric" value than “2”? Craig > On Sep 7, 2023, at 11:19 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > put "4,2,a,3,6" into tList;sort items of tList numeric ascending;put tList From brian at milby7.com Thu Sep 7 12:02:02 2023 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2023 12:02:02 -0400 Subject: sort bug In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It seems the error/bug is related to the error being in the last value. If you were to change the bug report to sort on the field itself, then the sort is performed but the answer does not execute. If you clicked the button again, then the answer does show. If you revert to the saved stack and add a valid value after the bad one, the answer works as expected with the bad value being first. Brian Milby brian at milby7.com > On Sep 6, 2023, at 10:31 PM, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode wrote: > > From the original email: > > If the function myVal encounters a run-time error (in the example if one of > the items is not a number) the sort command fails silently: the script > exits at that code line and the user is unaware that the sort (and the rest > of the handler) were not executed. > > > To be clear: the above is NOT what I'm seeing. Mark W says in the bug > report: > > The 'sort ... by ...' command has always allowed the by expression to be > fault tolerant - if evaluating it generates a runtime error then the sort > key for that element is just taken to be the original element. > > And that is what I'm seeing. For example, this code does not exit -- it > displays the answer dialog as if nothing out of the ordinary has happened: > > on mouseUp > sort lines of fld 1 numeric by sortVal(each) > answer "done" > end mouseUp > > function sortVal S > return item 2 of S + item 3 of S > end sortVal > > It seems to be sorting as Mark described: when the function fails, the > whole line is used for the sort. And that "fallback to the whole value > needs better documentation, and could lead to some truly dismal debugging > situations, but it doesn't seem like a bug to me. > > The original report, if I were able to replicate it, would clearly be a bug. > >> On Sat, Sep 2, 2023 at 8:19 PM neville smythe via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >> Geoff Canyon wrote (after a bravura display of how many different >> ways there are to do things in LC!) : >> >> And the function sort also sorts based on a negative infinity value >> for >> >> errors. I'm not sure I'd consider that a bug. >> >> Hmm. I would. The sortKey function should tolerate any sort of >> run-time error? But anyway that's not the issue. The bug I see is that >> the sort command exits its containing handler - actually I presume the >> sortKey function exits to top - without throwing an error, so nothing >> beyond that line is executed. This creates a very difficult problem >> to track down, since the code appears to be executing correctly, until >> something falls over or a file gets corrupted much later because some >> stuff never happened. >> >> Of course one should always validate data, particularly if it's not >> your own data. In this case it was my own data! Moreover I had thought >> I had checked for invalid cases, just hadn't checked all possible >> kinds of invalid data (the sortKey was rather more complicated than >> the one I used for illustration). >> >> Neville >> >> ------------------------- >> Email sent using Optus Webmail >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Sep 7 12:20:51 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2023 16:20:51 +0000 Subject: sort bug In-Reply-To: References: <05140c1e777df65d8eddac9079e80d0e1350d3b7@webmail.optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <82F96605-B21F-4B99-AC44-E9CB1116C012@iotecdigital.com> I think it is putting all non-numeric values first as unsortable, then the sortable items next. This seems to be the case because: put "b,4,2,a,3,6" into tList;sort items of tList numeric ascending;put tList Results in: b,a,2,3,4,6 This implies that the non-numeric items are not being sorted at all, just shuttled to the front of the line. Bob S > On Sep 7, 2023, at 8:46 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: > > Bob, > > If you remove the “numeric” the result is “2,3,4,6,a”. > > To me this implies that ASCII values are used as the sortKey. But that begs the issue why, as in your post, with “numeric” included, the “a” appears first. What makes the “a” a lower "numeric" value than “2”? > > Craig > >> On Sep 7, 2023, at 11:19 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: >> >> put "4,2,a,3,6" into tList;sort items of tList numeric ascending;put tList From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Sep 7 12:24:56 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2023 16:24:56 +0000 Subject: sort bug In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5C932A3A-0281-48E7-87B5-1BAA53FF0B7E@iotecdigital.com> I’ve always thought that an operator like “a list of…” might be handy. In this case a list of integers, so you could check to see if the list you want to sort is a valid list of integers. Bob S On Sep 7, 2023, at 9:02 AM, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote: It seems the error/bug is related to the error being in the last value. If you were to change the bug report to sort on the field itself, then the sort is performed but the answer does not execute. If you clicked the button again, then the answer does show. If you revert to the saved stack and add a valid value after the bad one, the answer works as expected with the bad value being first. Brian Milby brian at milby7.com On Sep 6, 2023, at 10:31 PM, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode > wrote: From the original email: If the function myVal encounters a run-time error (in the example if one of the items is not a number) the sort command fails silently: the script exits at that code line and the user is unaware that the sort (and the rest of the handler) were not executed. To be clear: the above is NOT what I'm seeing. Mark W says in the bug report: The 'sort ... by ...' command has always allowed the by expression to be fault tolerant - if evaluating it generates a runtime error then the sort key for that element is just taken to be the original element. And that is what I'm seeing. For example, this code does not exit -- it displays the answer dialog as if nothing out of the ordinary has happened: on mouseUp sort lines of fld 1 numeric by sortVal(each) answer "done" end mouseUp function sortVal S return item 2 of S + item 3 of S end sortVal It seems to be sorting as Mark described: when the function fails, the whole line is used for the sort. And that "fallback to the whole value needs better documentation, and could lead to some truly dismal debugging situations, but it doesn't seem like a bug to me. The original report, if I were able to replicate it, would clearly be a bug. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Sep 7 13:50:53 2023 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2023 17:50:53 +0000 Subject: Responsive Layout and Opencard Message-ID: <20230907175053.Horde._Wx0hTTNxJfim52kf_Jbebl@hub.4wsys.com> James wrote: > Is it my imagination or does using the responsive layout on a card  > trap the opencard message?   I haven't used that widget, but I would imagine any moving/resizing of controls would be triggered by the resizeStack message, which on mobile is also sent when a stack opens.   Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems   From ludovic.thebault at laposte.net Thu Sep 7 14:43:22 2023 From: ludovic.thebault at laposte.net (Ludovic THEBAULT) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2023 20:43:22 +0200 Subject: Install app on iOS 9 : still possible ? Message-ID: <83784E26-817A-4984-8C02-8930AEA018C0@laposte.net> Hello, I’ve 2 iPad 2. I want to make some little app for my school. With Livecode 9.6.10, apps are not compatible. Which version of Livecode can be used to create compatible apps? Thanks. From benr_mc at cogapp.com Thu Sep 7 17:02:58 2023 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2023 22:02:58 +0100 Subject: OAuth2 broken in LC 10 (dp6) Message-ID: <446f143f-c7b2-92b4-d5f4-ac047d253d18@cogapp.com> Am I doing something wrong, or is OAuth2 broken in LC 10? (Using dp6, but also true of dp5). When I call OAuth2, it attempts to open a link in my default browser, instead of in a sheet on the stack. This doesn't display anything. Same stack works fine in 9.6.10 and all earlier versions I've tried, opening a sheet which correctly allows me to authorise, logging in as necessary. This is on Mac, in the IDE, on macOS 12.6.7. I'm not sure if this something to do with https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23767. Can anyone confirm, before I bugzilla it? TIA, Ben From monte.goulding at livecode.com Thu Sep 7 18:39:40 2023 From: monte.goulding at livecode.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2023 08:39:40 +1000 Subject: OAuth2 broken in LC 10 (dp6) In-Reply-To: <446f143f-c7b2-92b4-d5f4-ac047d253d18@cogapp.com> References: <446f143f-c7b2-92b4-d5f4-ac047d253d18@cogapp.com> Message-ID: <091C2E9B-9096-4199-B4C9-9C4FABF2B316@livecode.com> Hi Ben Launching the url in the default browser is by design as it is a required change to conform to RFC 8252. The notion being the user’s default browser is trusted not to record entered credentials while web views presented in apps don’t have that trust. There are notes on this breaking change in the release notes. Could you please create a bug report. It sounds like there’s some issue with the formation of the authorisation url or parameters we are attempting to launch in the browser. If you could include the parameters you are using in the report along with it that would be most helpful. Just change the client id and secret so it is different but conforms to the same pattern as you are using. If you can launch the url in your browser and copy the url the browser is trying to open that would be helpful but we can do that once we have the parameters. Thanks Monte > On 8 Sep 2023, at 7:02 am, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode wrote: > > Am I doing something wrong, or is OAuth2 broken in LC 10? (Using dp6, but also true of dp5). > > When I call OAuth2, it attempts to open a link in my default browser, instead of in a sheet on the stack. This doesn't display anything. > > Same stack works fine in 9.6.10 and all earlier versions I've tried, opening a sheet which correctly allows me to authorise, logging in as necessary. > > This is on Mac, in the IDE, on macOS 12.6.7. > > I'm not sure if this something to do with https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23767. > > Can anyone confirm, before I bugzilla it? > > TIA, > > Ben > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From james at thehales.id.au Fri Sep 8 02:51:19 2023 From: james at thehales.id.au (James Hale) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2023 16:51:19 +1000 Subject: Responsive Layout and Opencard (James At The Hales) Message-ID: <1C116E80-3DDA-4D53-A9A1-C9F097418D9F@thehales.id.au> Never mind, my error. James From benr_mc at cogapp.com Fri Sep 8 13:12:56 2023 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2023 18:12:56 +0100 Subject: OAuth2 broken in LC 10 (dp6) In-Reply-To: <091C2E9B-9096-4199-B4C9-9C4FABF2B316@livecode.com> References: <446f143f-c7b2-92b4-d5f4-ac047d253d18@cogapp.com> <091C2E9B-9096-4199-B4C9-9C4FABF2B316@livecode.com> Message-ID: <71e9fdc1-c245-d71b-f5d7-23b0ec7c5ee8@cogapp.com> Thanks Monte: https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=24334 Ben On 07/09/2023 23:39, Monte Goulding via use-livecode wrote: > Hi Ben > > Launching the url in the default browser is by design as it is a required change to conform to RFC 8252. The notion being the users default browser is trusted not to record entered credentials while web views presented in apps dont have that trust. There are notes on this breaking change in the release notes. > > Could you please create a bug report. It sounds like theres some issue with the formation of the authorisation url or parameters we are attempting to launch in the browser. If you could include the parameters you are using in the report along with it that would be most helpful. Just change the client id and secret so it is different but conforms to the same pattern as you are using. If you can launch the url in your browser and copy the url the browser is trying to open that would be helpful but we can do that once we have the parameters. > > Thanks > > Monte > >> On 8 Sep 2023, at 7:02 am, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Am I doing something wrong, or is OAuth2 broken in LC 10? (Using dp6, but also true of dp5). >> >> When I call OAuth2, it attempts to open a link in my default browser, instead of in a sheet on the stack. This doesn't display anything. >> >> Same stack works fine in 9.6.10 and all earlier versions I've tried, opening a sheet which correctly allows me to authorise, logging in as necessary. >> >> This is on Mac, in the IDE, on macOS 12.6.7. >> >> I'm not sure if this something to do with https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23767. >> >> Can anyone confirm, before I bugzilla it? >> >> TIA, >> >> Ben >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From klaus at major-k.de Thu Sep 14 06:02:36 2023 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2023 12:02:36 +0200 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) Message-ID: <5E689E51-B89F-4FF0-B934-009BC72D54F1@major-k.de> Hi all, yesterday it* happened again! *Around one of twenty times I start my app on my Samsung tablet, I get a black screen. I started the tablet, opened my app -> OK quit the app and started again -> OK quit the app and started again -> OK quit the app and attached my USB footswitch started the app -> BLACK SCREEN That also happens without the attached footswitch Then I took Jacque's advice and waited a bit and after about 30 seconds I got the "Application not responding" alter with two options: -> Close app -> Wait So I clicked "Quit" and could start the app anew without any problem! I am really wondering why this happens?! On the first card there are just two polygrids with < 10 entries each, loaded "on openstack" on the fly from the folders and files in the resources folder See screenshot here: (Ordner = folders) NO PDF is loaded yet! NO resizestack message, this is just for me and my tablet. NO "accelerated rendering" set for the stack Any hints very welcome, not sure if I should open a bug report, since this only happens from time to time, about 1 of twenty app starts. macOS 12.6.9, LC 9.6.10, Android 8.1, Android API 33 Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From klaus at major-k.de Thu Sep 14 07:01:26 2023 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2023 13:01:26 +0200 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) Message-ID: <70A99081-163E-4924-BFF6-5CF496F9908C@major-k.de> Hi all, yesterday it* happened again! *Around one of twenty times I start my app on my Samsung tablet, I get a black screen. I started the tablet, opened my app -> OK quit the app and started again -> OK quit the app and started again -> OK quit the app and attached my USB footswitch started the app -> BLACK SCREEN That also happens without the attached footswitch Then I took Jacque's advice and waited a bit and after about 30 seconds I got the "Application not responding" alter with two options: -> Close app -> Wait So I clicked "Quit" and could start the app anew without any problem! I am really wondering why this happens?! On the first card there are just two polygrids with < 10 entries each, loaded "on openstack" on the fly from the folders and files in the resources folder See screenshot here: (Ordner = folders) NO PDF is loaded yet! NO resizestack message, this is just for me and my tablet. NO "accelerated rendering" set for the stack Any hints very welcome, not sure if I should open a bug report, since this only happens from time to time, about 1 of twenty app starts. macOS 12.6.9, LC 9.6.10, Android 8.1, Android API 33 Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Thu Sep 14 13:20:24 2023 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2023 13:20:24 -0400 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <70A99081-163E-4924-BFF6-5CF496F9908C@major-k.de> References: <70A99081-163E-4924-BFF6-5CF496F9908C@major-k.de> Message-ID: <000001d9e72f$c296c440$47c44cc0$@net> Klaus, Get a logcat after a crash and see if Panos can glean anything useful from it. It helped me once identifying and getting a crash fix implemented. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Klaus major-k via use-livecode Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2023 7:01 AM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Klaus major-k Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) Hi all, yesterday it* happened again! *Around one of twenty times I start my app on my Samsung tablet, I get a black screen. I started the tablet, opened my app -> OK quit the app and started again -> OK quit the app and started again -> OK quit the app and attached my USB footswitch started the app -> BLACK SCREEN That also happens without the attached footswitch Then I took Jacque's advice and waited a bit and after about 30 seconds I got the "Application not responding" alter with two options: -> Close app -> Wait So I clicked "Quit" and could start the app anew without any problem! I am really wondering why this happens?! On the first card there are just two polygrids with < 10 entries each, loaded "on openstack" on the fly from the folders and files in the resources folder See screenshot here: (Ordner = folders) NO PDF is loaded yet! NO resizestack message, this is just for me and my tablet. NO "accelerated rendering" set for the stack Any hints very welcome, not sure if I should open a bug report, since this only happens from time to time, about 1 of twenty app starts. macOS 12.6.9, LC 9.6.10, Android 8.1, Android API 33 Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From klaus at major-k.de Thu Sep 14 13:23:46 2023 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2023 19:23:46 +0200 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <000001d9e72f$c296c440$47c44cc0$@net> References: <70A99081-163E-4924-BFF6-5CF496F9908C@major-k.de> <000001d9e72f$c296c440$47c44cc0$@net> Message-ID: Hi Ralph, > Am 14.09.2023 um 19:20 schrieb Ralph DiMola via use-livecode : > > Klaus, > > Get a logcat after a crash and where can I possibly find one on my tablet? > and see if Panos can glean anything useful from > it. It helped me once identifying and getting a crash fix implemented. > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf > Of Klaus major-k via use-livecode > Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2023 7:01 AM > To: How to use LiveCode > Cc: Klaus major-k > Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) > > Hi all, > > yesterday it* happened again! > > *Around one of twenty times I start my app on my Samsung tablet, I get a > black screen. > > I started the tablet, opened my app -> OK quit the app and started again -> > OK quit the app and started again -> OK quit the app and attached my USB > footswitch started the app -> BLACK SCREEN That also happens without the > attached footswitch > > Then I took Jacque's advice and waited a bit and after about > 30 seconds I got the "Application not responding" alter with two options: > -> Close app > -> Wait > > So I clicked "Quit" and could start the app anew without any problem! > > I am really wondering why this happens?! > > On the first card there are just two polygrids with < 10 entries each, > loaded "on openstack" on the fly from the folders and files in the resources > folder See screenshot here: > ?rlkey=09o2ljter5hramdhv3gm5x786&dl=0> > (Ordner = folders) > NO PDF is loaded yet! > NO resizestack message, this is just for me and my tablet. > NO "accelerated rendering" set for the stack > > Any hints very welcome, not sure if I should open a bug report, since this > only happens from time to time, about 1 of twenty app starts. > > macOS 12.6.9, LC 9.6.10, Android 8.1, Android API 33 Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Thu Sep 14 13:43:09 2023 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2023 13:43:09 -0400 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: References: <70A99081-163E-4924-BFF6-5CF496F9908C@major-k.de> <000001d9e72f$c296c440$47c44cc0$@net> Message-ID: <000401d9e732$effa4e40$cfeeeac0$@net> Klaus, You need to get it using a command prompt via USB. Connect device. Open command prompt. In the android SDK platform-tools folder... Steps: 1) Clear the log 2) Get you app to crash 3) Get a log ADB commands below: ADB logcat -c Now run your app till crash ADB logcat The log can be piped to a file. In windows it's ADB logcat > somefile.txt The logcat will keep running so on windows a ctrl C will terminate. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Klaus major-k via use-livecode Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2023 1:24 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Klaus major-k Subject: Re: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) Hi Ralph, > Am 14.09.2023 um 19:20 schrieb Ralph DiMola via use-livecode : > > Klaus, > > Get a logcat after a crash and where can I possibly find one on my tablet? > and see if Panos can glean anything useful from it. It helped me once > identifying and getting a crash fix implemented. > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On > Behalf Of Klaus major-k via use-livecode > Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2023 7:01 AM > To: How to use LiveCode > Cc: Klaus major-k > Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) > > Hi all, > > yesterday it* happened again! > > *Around one of twenty times I start my app on my Samsung tablet, I get > a black screen. > > I started the tablet, opened my app -> OK quit the app and started > again -> OK quit the app and started again -> OK quit the app and > attached my USB footswitch started the app -> BLACK SCREEN That also > happens without the attached footswitch > > Then I took Jacque's advice and waited a bit and after about > 30 seconds I got the "Application not responding" alter with two options: > -> Close app > -> Wait > > So I clicked "Quit" and could start the app anew without any problem! > > I am really wondering why this happens?! > > On the first card there are just two polygrids with < 10 entries each, > loaded "on openstack" on the fly from the folders and files in the > resources folder See screenshot here: > _1.png ?rlkey=09o2ljter5hramdhv3gm5x786&dl=0> > (Ordner = folders) > NO PDF is loaded yet! > NO resizestack message, this is just for me and my tablet. > NO "accelerated rendering" set for the stack > > Any hints very welcome, not sure if I should open a bug report, since > this only happens from time to time, about 1 of twenty app starts. > > macOS 12.6.9, LC 9.6.10, Android 8.1, Android API 33 Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From klaus at major-k.de Thu Sep 14 13:49:46 2023 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2023 19:49:46 +0200 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <000401d9e732$effa4e40$cfeeeac0$@net> References: <70A99081-163E-4924-BFF6-5CF496F9908C@major-k.de> <000001d9e72f$c296c440$47c44cc0$@net> <000401d9e732$effa4e40$cfeeeac0$@net> Message-ID: <7A8818BC-3134-429B-9088-01B136815800@major-k.de> Hi Ralph, > Am 14.09.2023 um 19:43 schrieb Ralph DiMola via use-livecode : > > Klaus, > > You need to get it using a command prompt via USB. Connect device. Open > command prompt. In the android SDK platform-tools folder... Steps: > > 1) Clear the log > 2) Get you app to crash > 3) Get a log > > ADB commands below: > > ADB logcat -c > Now run your app till crash > ADB logcat > > The log can be piped to a file. > In windows it's > ADB logcat > somefile.txt > The logcat will keep running so on windows a ctrl C will terminate. OK, thank you. But I'm using a Mac and it looks like that tool is not available here in the SDK tools folder. Maybe available somewhere in "Android Studio". And my problem NEVER happened when I'm at home, only during band rehearsals and gigs! :-D > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Sep 14 14:03:43 2023 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2023 13:03:43 -0500 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <000001d9e72f$c296c440$47c44cc0$@net> References: <70A99081-163E-4924-BFF6-5CF496F9908C@major-k.de> <000001d9e72f$c296c440$47c44cc0$@net> Message-ID: <18a94dcf418.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> He's not crashing, it's a hang. I can't remember if logcat shows those. My guess is that it's a memory problem since he's running a very old version of Android with not much RAM, and restarting the app may force retained apps to release RAM. But a log can't hurt at any rate. Klaus, remove all unnecessary widgets from your home screen(s). Also go through all the apps in settings and disable or delete any you don't use. Android will not allow you to do that for required apps so if the buttons are enabled then it's safe. Most devices come with a lot of bloatware that runs in the background and uses memory. Widgets are especially bad at that. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On September 14, 2023 12:21:15 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote: > Get a logcat after a crash and see if Panos can glean anything useful from > it. It helped me once identifying and getting a crash fix implemented. From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Thu Sep 14 14:16:21 2023 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2023 14:16:21 -0400 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <18a94dcf418.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <70A99081-163E-4924-BFF6-5CF496F9908C@major-k.de> <000001d9e72f$c296c440$47c44cc0$@net> <18a94dcf418.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <000501d9e737$936c5bf0$ba4513d0$@net> I was thinking that if it's indeed a hang it would show how far the app activation proceeded before the hang. Maybe that would help/confirm that this is indeed a hang or crash. Just a thought Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2023 2:04 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: J. Landman Gay Subject: RE: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) He's not crashing, it's a hang. I can't remember if logcat shows those. My guess is that it's a memory problem since he's running a very old version of Android with not much RAM, and restarting the app may force retained apps to release RAM. But a log can't hurt at any rate. Klaus, remove all unnecessary widgets from your home screen(s). Also go through all the apps in settings and disable or delete any you don't use. Android will not allow you to do that for required apps so if the buttons are enabled then it's safe. Most devices come with a lot of bloatware that runs in the background and uses memory. Widgets are especially bad at that. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On September 14, 2023 12:21:15 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote: > Get a logcat after a crash and see if Panos can glean anything useful from > it. It helped me once identifying and getting a crash fix implemented. _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Thu Sep 14 14:21:08 2023 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2023 14:21:08 -0400 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <7A8818BC-3134-429B-9088-01B136815800@major-k.de> References: <70A99081-163E-4924-BFF6-5CF496F9908C@major-k.de> <000001d9e72f$c296c440$47c44cc0$@net> <000401d9e732$effa4e40$cfeeeac0$@net> <7A8818BC-3134-429B-9088-01B136815800@major-k.de> Message-ID: <000601d9e738$3eacd800$bc068800$@net> It should be there. It's not in the tools folder it's in the "platform-tools" folder. Clear the logcat before you go to practice then after you get home after a hang/crash do the logcat. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Klaus major-k via use-livecode Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2023 1:50 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Klaus major-k Subject: Re: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) Hi Ralph, > Am 14.09.2023 um 19:43 schrieb Ralph DiMola via use-livecode : > > Klaus, > > You need to get it using a command prompt via USB. Connect device. > Open command prompt. In the android SDK platform-tools folder... Steps: > > 1) Clear the log > 2) Get you app to crash > 3) Get a log > > ADB commands below: > > ADB logcat -c > Now run your app till crash > ADB logcat > > The log can be piped to a file. > In windows it's > ADB logcat > somefile.txt > The logcat will keep running so on windows a ctrl C will terminate. OK, thank you. But I'm using a Mac and it looks like that tool is not available here in the SDK tools folder. Maybe available somewhere in "Android Studio". And my problem NEVER happened when I'm at home, only during band rehearsals and gigs! :-D > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From klaus at major-k.de Fri Sep 15 03:52:45 2023 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 09:52:45 +0200 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <18a94dcf418.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <70A99081-163E-4924-BFF6-5CF496F9908C@major-k.de> <000001d9e72f$c296c440$47c44cc0$@net> <18a94dcf418.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <86B0BBD3-9BA2-4268-B404-BA895697AC5E@major-k.de> Hi all, > Am 14.09.2023 um 20:03 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode : > > He's not crashing, it's a hang. I can't remember if logcat shows those. > My guess is that it's a memory problem since he's running a very old version of Android with not much RAM, it is a Galaxy Tab A (2016) with 2 GB RAM and 32 GB hd (or SSD?) running Android 8.1. So the LC Android engine is a bit RAM "hungry"? Or are the new widgets like PolyGrid? Strange, I have another LC app installed on my Samsung Galaxy J7 (2016) cell phone with 2 GB of RAM and 16 GB HD which never ever crashed or hung in the last year? > and restarting the app may force retained apps to release RAM. But a log can't hurt at any rate. > > Klaus, remove all unnecessary widgets from your home screen(s). Also go through all the apps in settings and disable or delete any you don't use. Android will not allow you to do that for required apps so if the buttons are enabled then it's safe. Most devices come with a lot of bloatware that runs in the background and uses memory. Widgets are especially bad at that. I already disabled and deleted everything that could be disabled and deleted, since I exclusivley (sic!) use the tablet to display sheet music. Therefore I really wonder why this does not happen more often? Will try to check the "logcat", when this will happen the next time. Thanks for all hints so far. > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > On September 14, 2023 12:21:15 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote: > >> Get a logcat after a crash and see if Panos can glean anything useful from >> it. It helped me once identifying and getting a crash fix implemented. Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From mark at livecode.com Fri Sep 15 06:14:19 2023 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 11:14:19 +0100 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <7A8818BC-3134-429B-9088-01B136815800@major-k.de> References: <70A99081-163E-4924-BFF6-5CF496F9908C@major-k.de> <000001d9e72f$c296c440$47c44cc0$@net> <000401d9e732$effa4e40$cfeeeac0$@net> <7A8818BC-3134-429B-9088-01B136815800@major-k.de> Message-ID: <910a9f9df07d72acf53526aa91fcce24@livecode.com> On 2023-09-14 18:49, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > But I'm using a Mac and it looks like that tool is not available here > in the SDK tools folder. > Maybe available somewhere in "Android Studio". > > And my problem NEVER happened when I'm at home, only during band > rehearsals and gigs! :-D So this is perhaps the most useful observation... This could suggest there is a either a difference in usage, or environment between the two places. e.g. - is the app used more / for longer at gigs compared to home? - how is the tablet powered at home vs at gigs? - how does the tablet connect to the internet at home vs at gigs? (even if the app does not use the internet, lots of background stuff on Android *does*) - when the problem happens is there anything specific you can think of in common with what you were doing / the app was doing / the device was doing just before? (e.g. does it happen just after the device has gone to sleep). The fact it is 'hanging' suggests there is something (on startup?) which is failing and causing an infinite loop. Is there anything in the startup code for the app which waits for something to happen? e.g. an network request, something to initialize etc.? Warmest Regards, Mark. P.S. If you send your app's source to support at livecode.com with a rough outline of where to look for startup code etc. then Panos and I can take a quick look and see if we can see anything which may be causing your issue. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Build Amazing Things From klaus at major-k.de Fri Sep 15 06:34:01 2023 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 12:34:01 +0200 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <910a9f9df07d72acf53526aa91fcce24@livecode.com> References: <70A99081-163E-4924-BFF6-5CF496F9908C@major-k.de> <000001d9e72f$c296c440$47c44cc0$@net> <000401d9e732$effa4e40$cfeeeac0$@net> <7A8818BC-3134-429B-9088-01B136815800@major-k.de> <910a9f9df07d72acf53526aa91fcce24@livecode.com> Message-ID: <65E378B1-9BBA-48B0-A81B-DE2AEF2786E9@major-k.de> Hi Mark, > Am 15.09.2023 um 12:14 schrieb Mark Waddingham via use-livecode : > > On 2023-09-14 18:49, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >> But I'm using a Mac and it looks like that tool is not available here in the SDK tools folder. >> Maybe available somewhere in "Android Studio". >> And my problem NEVER happened when I'm at home, only during band rehearsals and gigs! :-D > So this is perhaps the most useful observation... :-) > This could suggest there is a either a difference in usage, or environment between the two places. e.g. > - is the app used more / for longer at gigs compared to home? Yes. > - how is the tablet powered at home vs at gigs? Via its internal rechargable battery, will recharge it overnight with no connection to my Mac. > - how does the tablet connect to the internet at home vs at gigs? (even if the app does not use the internet, lots of background stuff on Android *does*) At home via W-Lan, at gigs no internet connection (no SIM card or something!) > - when the problem happens is there anything specific you can think of in common with what you were doing / the app was doing / the device was doing just before? (e.g. does it happen just after the device has gone to sleep). No, sometimes I get the black screen immediately when I start the tablet at a gig or rehearsal, sometimes after several quit/start of the app. > The fact it is 'hanging' suggests there is something (on startup?) which is failing and causing an infinite loop. Nothing remarkable here, I only fill the two polygrids (< 10 entries each) on the first card on preopenstack. > Is there anything in the startup code for the app which waits for something to happen? e.g. an network request, something to initialize etc.? No, nada, just what I wrote above. > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > > P.S. If you send your app's source to support at livecode.com with a rough outline of where to look for startup code etc. then Panos and I can take a quick look and see if we can see anything which may be causing your issue. Great, thanks, will remove all unneccessary files and will send it with some instructions. > -- > Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Build Amazing Things Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com Fri Sep 15 10:30:41 2023 From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 16:30:41 +0200 Subject: Your scripts as a flowchart Message-ID: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> Hi all! Those frequenting the forums may have seen this already, but I thought I'd share it here too now: If you want to see a graphic map of the inter-relations of all the handlers in the scripts of your LiveCode projects, my tool ScriptDependencies now features an extremely cool flowchart output (using the Mermaid javascript lib). Here’s an example of how a script flowchart can look: https://wheninspace.com/browseranimation/WIS_ScriptDependencies_example.png A few easy steps to test it on your own scripts: 1) Download ScriptDependencies here: https://github.com/wheninspace/WIS_ScriptDepedencies/releases/latest 2) Open the stack, click the top left cog wheel and add at least one stack (that has at least some handlers calling other handlers) to a project. 3) Close the project pane and click "Start mapping and analysis”. 4) Click ”Create flowchart”. Boom! :) On Mac, the browser widget can display the flowchart in-stack, enabling some interactivity (click a node to highlight the arrows to and from it). On Windows and Linux, where the browser widget has, er... room for improvement…, the flowchart is instead displayed in an external browser window (minus interactivity). My intention with ScriptDependencies is to provide a code analysis and live documentation tool (of some kind) for LiveCode projects. I need it myself for some big LC projects, and thought it might be useful also for other LC devs. The tool has been thoroughly tested by LC veterans like bn (Bernd), jacque (Jacqueline) and mwieder (Mike), who have all provided invaluable feedback and improvement suggestions, bringing the tool up to quite a professional level. I hope you’ll find use for it - or at least enjoy seeing your scripts presented as a bouquet of flowers, a piece of art! :) Any feedback is very welcome! /Andreas From marksmithhfx at gmail.com Fri Sep 15 10:46:06 2023 From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 15:46:06 +0100 Subject: Your scripts as a flowchart In-Reply-To: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> References: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5D161B5C-3186-4B1D-AEF0-936CD7F73B0F@gmail.com> Very cool Andreas. I look forward to trying this out. Mark > On 15 Sep 2023, at 3:30 pm, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi all! > > Those frequenting the forums may have seen this already, but I thought I'd share it here too now: > > If you want to see a graphic map of the inter-relations of all the handlers in the scripts of your LiveCode projects, my tool ScriptDependencies now features an extremely cool flowchart output (using the Mermaid javascript lib). > > Here’s an example of how a script flowchart can look: > https://wheninspace.com/browseranimation/WIS_ScriptDependencies_example.png > > A few easy steps to test it on your own scripts: > > 1) Download ScriptDependencies here: > https://github.com/wheninspace/WIS_ScriptDepedencies/releases/latest > > 2) Open the stack, click the top left cog wheel and add at least one stack (that has at least some handlers calling other handlers) to a project. > 3) Close the project pane and click "Start mapping and analysis”. > 4) Click ”Create flowchart”. Boom! :) > > On Mac, the browser widget can display the flowchart in-stack, enabling some interactivity (click a node to highlight the arrows to and from it). > On Windows and Linux, where the browser widget has, er... room for improvement…, the flowchart is instead displayed in an external browser window (minus interactivity). > > My intention with ScriptDependencies is to provide a code analysis and live documentation tool (of some kind) for LiveCode projects. I need it myself for some big LC projects, and thought it might be useful also for other LC devs. > > The tool has been thoroughly tested by LC veterans like bn (Bernd), jacque (Jacqueline) and mwieder (Mike), who have all provided invaluable feedback and improvement suggestions, bringing the tool up to quite a professional level. > > I hope you’ll find use for it - or at least enjoy seeing your scripts presented as a bouquet of flowers, a piece of art! :) > > Any feedback is very welcome! > > /Andreas > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 15 11:20:18 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 15:20:18 +0000 Subject: Your scripts as a flowchart In-Reply-To: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> References: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> Message-ID: <6097681B-D78E-4D34-AFA2-E70CBDA397B7@iotecdigital.com> Very cool. I’ll give it a try. But whereas most people’s code will look like a bowl of spaghetti, mine will probably look like Whoppi Goldberg’s hair. Bob S > On Sep 15, 2023, at 7:30 AM, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi all! > > Those frequenting the forums may have seen this already, but I thought I'd share it here too now: > > If you want to see a graphic map of the inter-relations of all the handlers in the scripts of your LiveCode projects, my tool ScriptDependencies now features an extremely cool flowchart output (using the Mermaid javascript lib). > > Here’s an example of how a script flowchart can look: > https://wheninspace.com/browseranimation/WIS_ScriptDependencies_example.png > > A few easy steps to test it on your own scripts: > > 1) Download ScriptDependencies here: > https://github.com/wheninspace/WIS_ScriptDepedencies/releases/latest > > 2) Open the stack, click the top left cog wheel and add at least one stack (that has at least some handlers calling other handlers) to a project. > 3) Close the project pane and click "Start mapping and analysis”. > 4) Click ”Create flowchart”. Boom! :) > > On Mac, the browser widget can display the flowchart in-stack, enabling some interactivity (click a node to highlight the arrows to and from it). > On Windows and Linux, where the browser widget has, er... room for improvement…, the flowchart is instead displayed in an external browser window (minus interactivity). > > My intention with ScriptDependencies is to provide a code analysis and live documentation tool (of some kind) for LiveCode projects. I need it myself for some big LC projects, and thought it might be useful also for other LC devs. > > The tool has been thoroughly tested by LC veterans like bn (Bernd), jacque (Jacqueline) and mwieder (Mike), who have all provided invaluable feedback and improvement suggestions, bringing the tool up to quite a professional level. > > I hope you’ll find use for it - or at least enjoy seeing your scripts presented as a bouquet of flowers, a piece of art! :) > > Any feedback is very welcome! > > /Andreas > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ahsoftware at sonic.net Fri Sep 15 11:47:33 2023 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 08:47:33 -0700 Subject: Your scripts as a flowchart In-Reply-To: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> References: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2ee08412-4787-3013-01d2-a4a95c8d5e0a@sonic.net> Just want to add that Andreas has been super-responsive to suggestions re adding features and improving things and this tool has gone from being moderately useful to something I can't do without. And is a textbook example in how to incorporate a javascript library into LiveCode. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From irog at mac.com Fri Sep 15 12:07:05 2023 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 09:07:05 -0700 Subject: Your scripts as a flowchart In-Reply-To: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> References: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1B8231F6-92BA-47A4-854F-8958501AF23D@mac.com> Very cool! Thank you for sharing it, Andreas. Roger > On Sep 15, 2023, at 7:30 AM, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi all! > > Those frequenting the forums may have seen this already, but I thought I'd share it here too now: > > If you want to see a graphic map of the inter-relations of all the handlers in the scripts of your LiveCode projects, my tool ScriptDependencies now features an extremely cool flowchart output (using the Mermaid javascript lib). > > Here’s an example of how a script flowchart can look: > https://wheninspace.com/browseranimation/WIS_ScriptDependencies_example.png > > A few easy steps to test it on your own scripts: > > 1) Download ScriptDependencies here: > https://github.com/wheninspace/WIS_ScriptDepedencies/releases/latest > > 2) Open the stack, click the top left cog wheel and add at least one stack (that has at least some handlers calling other handlers) to a project. > 3) Close the project pane and click "Start mapping and analysis”. > 4) Click ”Create flowchart”. Boom! :) > > On Mac, the browser widget can display the flowchart in-stack, enabling some interactivity (click a node to highlight the arrows to and from it). > On Windows and Linux, where the browser widget has, er... room for improvement…, the flowchart is instead displayed in an external browser window (minus interactivity). > > My intention with ScriptDependencies is to provide a code analysis and live documentation tool (of some kind) for LiveCode projects. I need it myself for some big LC projects, and thought it might be useful also for other LC devs. > > The tool has been thoroughly tested by LC veterans like bn (Bernd), jacque (Jacqueline) and mwieder (Mike), who have all provided invaluable feedback and improvement suggestions, bringing the tool up to quite a professional level. > > I hope you’ll find use for it - or at least enjoy seeing your scripts presented as a bouquet of flowers, a piece of art! :) > > Any feedback is very welcome! > > /Andreas > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com Fri Sep 15 12:12:46 2023 From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 18:12:46 +0200 Subject: Your scripts as a flowchart In-Reply-To: <2ee08412-4787-3013-01d2-a4a95c8d5e0a@sonic.net> References: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> <2ee08412-4787-3013-01d2-a4a95c8d5e0a@sonic.net> Message-ID: <6CF00A35-1B64-4C5F-8492-E99FF5507926@gmail.com> Thanks, that’s great to hear, Mark! (And terribly sorry for the credit misnaming - it’s Mark! I’ll remember that now!) > 15 sep. 2023 kl. 17:47 skrev Mark Wieder via use-livecode : > > Just want to add that Andreas has been super-responsive to suggestions re adding features and improving things and this tool has gone from being moderately useful to something I can't do without. And is a textbook example in how to incorporate a javascript library into LiveCode. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 15 12:18:22 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 16:18:22 +0000 Subject: Your scripts as a flowchart In-Reply-To: <6CF00A35-1B64-4C5F-8492-E99FF5507926@gmail.com> References: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> <2ee08412-4787-3013-01d2-a4a95c8d5e0a@sonic.net> <6CF00A35-1B64-4C5F-8492-E99FF5507926@gmail.com> Message-ID: I was gonna say, I didn’t know he had a brother who was a LiveCoder too! Bob S > On Sep 15, 2023, at 9:12 AM, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode wrote: > > Thanks, that’s great to hear, Mark! (And terribly sorry for the credit misnaming - it’s Mark! I’ll remember that now!) > >> 15 sep. 2023 kl. 17:47 skrev Mark Wieder via use-livecode : >> >> Just want to add that Andreas has been super-responsive to suggestions re adding features and improving things and this tool has gone from being moderately useful to something I can't do without. And is a textbook example in how to incorporate a javascript library into LiveCode. >> >> -- >> Mark Wieder >> ahsoftware at gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org Fri Sep 15 13:03:58 2023 From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (William Prothero) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 10:03:58 -0700 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <65E378B1-9BBA-48B0-A81B-DE2AEF2786E9@major-k.de> References: <65E378B1-9BBA-48B0-A81B-DE2AEF2786E9@major-k.de> Message-ID: <2D38FE2A-05BA-43D7-BDB9-E25D275C1351@earthlearningsolutions.org> Klaus, Re sheet music display, I also display sheet music, mostly jazz. There's an app, very low cost, named igigbook that displays pdfs. If you're into jazz, you can get lots of real book music and there is even an addon for changing the key for some realbook songs. The trouble is, iGigbook is optimized for the Mac, so I'm not sure it would work for you. So, excuse me if my comment is irrelevant to your goal. Have fun, Bill William A. Prothero, PhD Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science University of California, Santa Barbara > On Sep 15, 2023, at 3:34 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Mark, > >> Am 15.09.2023 um 12:14 schrieb Mark Waddingham via use-livecode : >> >>> On 2023-09-14 18:49, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >>> But I'm using a Mac and it looks like that tool is not available here in the SDK tools folder. >>> Maybe available somewhere in "Android Studio". >>> And my problem NEVER happened when I'm at home, only during band rehearsals and gigs! :-D >> So this is perhaps the most useful observation... > > :-) > >> This could suggest there is a either a difference in usage, or environment between the two places. e.g. >> - is the app used more / for longer at gigs compared to home? > > Yes. > >> - how is the tablet powered at home vs at gigs? > > Via its internal rechargable battery, will recharge it overnight with no connection to my Mac. > >> - how does the tablet connect to the internet at home vs at gigs? (even if the app does not use the internet, lots of background stuff on Android *does*) > > At home via W-Lan, at gigs no internet connection (no SIM card or something!) > >> - when the problem happens is there anything specific you can think of in common with what you were doing / the app was doing / the device was doing just before? (e.g. does it happen just after the device has gone to sleep). > > No, sometimes I get the black screen immediately when I start the tablet at a gig or rehearsal, sometimes after several quit/start of the app. > >> The fact it is 'hanging' suggests there is something (on startup?) which is failing and causing an infinite loop. > > Nothing remarkable here, I only fill the two polygrids (< 10 entries each) on the first card on preopenstack. > >> Is there anything in the startup code for the app which waits for something to happen? e.g. an network request, something to initialize etc.? > > No, nada, just what I wrote above. > >> Warmest Regards, >> >> Mark. >> >> P.S. If you send your app's source to support at livecode.com with a rough outline of where to look for startup code etc. then Panos and I can take a quick look and see if we can see anything which may be causing your issue. > > Great, thanks, will remove all unneccessary files and will send it with some instructions. > >> -- >> Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ >> LiveCode: Build Amazing Things > > Best > > Klaus > > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > https://www.major-k.de/bass > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From klaus at major-k.de Fri Sep 15 13:13:36 2023 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 19:13:36 +0200 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <2D38FE2A-05BA-43D7-BDB9-E25D275C1351@earthlearningsolutions.org> References: <65E378B1-9BBA-48B0-A81B-DE2AEF2786E9@major-k.de> <2D38FE2A-05BA-43D7-BDB9-E25D275C1351@earthlearningsolutions.org> Message-ID: <3534B370-3CB4-4356-AE01-C123407D3A73@major-k.de> Hi Bill, > Am 15.09.2023 um 19:03 schrieb William Prothero via use-livecode : > > Klaus, > Re sheet music display, I also display sheet music, mostly jazz. There's an app, very low cost, named igigbook that displays pdfs. If you're into jazz, you can get lots of real book music and there is even an addon for changing the key for some realbook songs. > > The trouble is, iGigbook is optimized for the Mac, so I'm not sure it would work for you. So, excuse me if my comment is irrelevant to your goal. thank you for the hint. There is also an Android app of iGigbook! However, why buy something when you can do it by yourself, much more fun. My app does exactly (sic!) what I need. I also own "iReal Pro" for Mac which can output PDF if I need one and I also still own a printed version of the "Real Book I". :-) > Have fun, I definitively do! :-) > Bill > William A. Prothero, PhD > Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science > University of California, Santa Barbara Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From ahsoftware at sonic.net Fri Sep 15 14:26:21 2023 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 11:26:21 -0700 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <3534B370-3CB4-4356-AE01-C123407D3A73@major-k.de> References: <65E378B1-9BBA-48B0-A81B-DE2AEF2786E9@major-k.de> <2D38FE2A-05BA-43D7-BDB9-E25D275C1351@earthlearningsolutions.org> <3534B370-3CB4-4356-AE01-C123407D3A73@major-k.de> Message-ID: <7933bf4c-e74d-08cc-255f-2d9c4ed99452@sonic.net> On 9/15/23 10:13, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > I also own "iReal Pro" for Mac which can output PDF if I need one > and I also still own a printed version of the "Real Book I". :-) The only reason I have a 10" tablet is to run iRealPro on it. Hard to imagine doing without it. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From klaus at major-k.de Fri Sep 15 14:49:18 2023 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 20:49:18 +0200 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <7933bf4c-e74d-08cc-255f-2d9c4ed99452@sonic.net> References: <65E378B1-9BBA-48B0-A81B-DE2AEF2786E9@major-k.de> <2D38FE2A-05BA-43D7-BDB9-E25D275C1351@earthlearningsolutions.org> <3534B370-3CB4-4356-AE01-C123407D3A73@major-k.de> <7933bf4c-e74d-08cc-255f-2d9c4ed99452@sonic.net> Message-ID: <5B209DCA-0E6C-4D30-B8FA-067FA2F1BB1D@major-k.de> Hi Mark, > Am 15.09.2023 um 20:26 schrieb Mark Wieder via use-livecode : > On 9/15/23 10:13, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >> I also own "iReal Pro" for Mac which can output PDF if I need one >> and I also still own a printed version of the "Real Book I". :-) > The only reason I have a 10" tablet is to run iRealPro on it. > Hard to imagine doing without it. good boy! :-) > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org Fri Sep 15 14:56:05 2023 From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (William Prothero) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 11:56:05 -0700 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <5B209DCA-0E6C-4D30-B8FA-067FA2F1BB1D@major-k.de> References: <5B209DCA-0E6C-4D30-B8FA-067FA2F1BB1D@major-k.de> Message-ID: <23C5FB9A-C5AC-4B0F-ACE2-30375664FB73@earthlearningsolutions.org> Mark and Klaus, Wow, folks I didn't know were musicians! I use iReal Pro too. It's great for practice. And, easily transposes. But as a keyboard player, I use the notes of the tune to shape my solos. iReal Pro only has the chords. It's still useful, though. Best,🎶🎶🎶 Bill William A. Prothero, PhD Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science University of California, Santa Barbara > On Sep 15, 2023, at 11:50 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Mark, > >> Am 15.09.2023 um 20:26 schrieb Mark Wieder via use-livecode : >>> On 9/15/23 10:13, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >>> I also own "iReal Pro" for Mac which can output PDF if I need one >>> and I also still own a printed version of the "Real Book I". :-) >> The only reason I have a 10" tablet is to run iRealPro on it. >> Hard to imagine doing without it. > > good boy! :-) > >> -- >> Mark Wieder >> ahsoftware at gmail.com > > Best > > Klaus > > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > https://www.major-k.de/bass > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From tom at makeshyft.com Fri Sep 15 15:02:38 2023 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 15:02:38 -0400 Subject: Clipboard Copy Troubles? Message-ID: Heyall, Just wondering if anyone else has experienced issues where livecode stops being able to copy to the clipboard when using copy command from the menu or CTRL C or right click copy Specifically from within the script editor or a variable window. A LC restart seems to solve this temporarily. I've noticed this recently more than usual. On both mac and windows 11. Does this ring a bell to anyone? Thanks, Tom From ahsoftware at sonic.net Fri Sep 15 15:13:31 2023 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 12:13:31 -0700 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <23C5FB9A-C5AC-4B0F-ACE2-30375664FB73@earthlearningsolutions.org> References: <5B209DCA-0E6C-4D30-B8FA-067FA2F1BB1D@major-k.de> <23C5FB9A-C5AC-4B0F-ACE2-30375664FB73@earthlearningsolutions.org> Message-ID: <7beebee1-6cf3-76d5-009f-517297725b47@sonic.net> On 9/15/23 11:56, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote: > Mark and Klaus, > Wow, folks I didn't know were musicians! > I use iReal Pro too. It's great for practice. And, easily transposes. But as a keyboard player, I use the notes of the tune to shape my solos. iReal Pro only has the chords. It's still useful, though. OK - fair point about needing the notes. But as a bass player I'm usually more concerned with the horizontal movement of a tune. I have Real Books Vols 1,2,3 but that's a lot to carry to a gig. I use them at home and Band-in-a-box as well but for real-time improvising I find that iRealPro generally does the job. Or I can copy a page out of one of the Real Books and hope the wind doesn't carry it away . -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ahsoftware at sonic.net Fri Sep 15 15:15:27 2023 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 12:15:27 -0700 Subject: Clipboard Copy Troubles? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <97999ef1-7479-a5f9-03c3-7a68d1795488@sonic.net> On 9/15/23 12:02, Tom Glod via use-livecode wrote: > Heyall, > > Just wondering if anyone else has experienced issues where livecode stops > being able to copy to the clipboard when using copy command from the menu > or CTRL C or right click copy > Specifically from within the script editor or a variable window. > A LC restart seems to solve this temporarily. > I've noticed this recently more than usual. On both mac and windows 11. > > Does this ring a bell to anyone? Yep. I see this a lot. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From klaus at major-k.de Fri Sep 15 16:02:49 2023 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 22:02:49 +0200 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <23C5FB9A-C5AC-4B0F-ACE2-30375664FB73@earthlearningsolutions.org> References: <5B209DCA-0E6C-4D30-B8FA-067FA2F1BB1D@major-k.de> <23C5FB9A-C5AC-4B0F-ACE2-30375664FB73@earthlearningsolutions.org> Message-ID: <08FC6F1D-928D-485D-BF0F-D56030519BF7@major-k.de> Hi Bill, > Am 15.09.2023 um 20:56 schrieb William Prothero via use-livecode : > > Mark and Klaus, > Wow, folks I didn't know were musicians! take a look at my bass page, see signature. Lots of audio and video files. Don't worry, my site is in german and english. It is a bit outdated, but you'll get the picture. ;-) > I use iReal Pro too. It's great for practice. And, easily transposes. But as a keyboard player, I use the notes of the tune to shape my solos. iReal Pro only has the chords. It's still useful, though. Yep! > Best,🎶🎶🎶 > Bill Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Fri Sep 15 16:10:52 2023 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 16:10:52 -0400 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <23C5FB9A-C5AC-4B0F-ACE2-30375664FB73@earthlearningsolutions.org> References: <5B209DCA-0E6C-4D30-B8FA-067FA2F1BB1D@major-k.de> <23C5FB9A-C5AC-4B0F-ACE2-30375664FB73@earthlearningsolutions.org> Message-ID: <003201d9e810$bd72d300$38587900$@net> Does accordion count? Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of William Prothero via use-livecode Sent: Friday, September 15, 2023 2:56 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: William Prothero Subject: Re: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) Mark and Klaus, Wow, folks I didn't know were musicians! I use iReal Pro too. It's great for practice. And, easily transposes. But as a keyboard player, I use the notes of the tune to shape my solos. iReal Pro only has the chords. It's still useful, though. Best,🎶🎶 Bill William A. Prothero, PhD Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science University of California, Santa Barbara > On Sep 15, 2023, at 11:50 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Mark, > >> Am 15.09.2023 um 20:26 schrieb Mark Wieder via use-livecode : >>> On 9/15/23 10:13, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >>> I also own "iReal Pro" for Mac which can >>> output PDF if I need one and I also still own a printed version of >>> the "Real Book I". :-) >> The only reason I have a 10" tablet is to run iRealPro on it. >> Hard to imagine doing without it. > > good boy! :-) > >> -- >> Mark Wieder >> ahsoftware at gmail.com > > Best > > Klaus > > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > https://www.major-k.de/bass > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org Fri Sep 15 16:23:50 2023 From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (William Prothero) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 13:23:50 -0700 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <003201d9e810$bd72d300$38587900$@net> References: <003201d9e810$bd72d300$38587900$@net> Message-ID: Klaus, Very nice site and music. You're way above my skill level. I jam with friends a couple of times a week, but we are all retired and do it for fun and public performances are very rare. Best, Bill William A. Prothero, PhD Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science University of California, Santa Barbara > On Sep 15, 2023, at 1:11 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote: > > Does accordion count? > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of William Prothero via use-livecode > Sent: Friday, September 15, 2023 2:56 PM > To: How to use LiveCode > Cc: William Prothero > Subject: Re: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) > > Mark and Klaus, > Wow, folks I didn't know were musicians! > I use iReal Pro too. It's great for practice. And, easily transposes. But as a keyboard player, I use the notes of the tune to shape my solos. iReal Pro only has the chords. It's still useful, though. > > Best,🎶🎶 > Bill > > William A. Prothero, PhD > Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science > University of California, Santa Barbara > >> On Sep 15, 2023, at 11:50 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Hi Mark, >> >>> Am 15.09.2023 um 20:26 schrieb Mark Wieder via use-livecode : >>>>> On 9/15/23 10:13, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >>>>> I also own "iReal Pro" for Mac which can >>>>> output PDF if I need one and I also still own a printed version of >>>>> the "Real Book I". :-) >>> The only reason I have a 10" tablet is to run iRealPro on it. >>> Hard to imagine doing without it. >> >> good boy! :-) >> >>> -- >>> Mark Wieder >>> ahsoftware at gmail.com >> >> Best >> >> Klaus >> >> -- >> Klaus Major >> https://www.major-k.de >> https://www.major-k.de/bass >> klaus at major-k.de >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 15 16:46:56 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 20:46:56 +0000 Subject: Clipboard Copy Troubles? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Since I use my own menus, I had to create my own Edit menu. Here is the text of the edit menu and the scripting. This is actually a behavior I assign to all my Edit menu buttons. Replace the value for cHomeStack with the name of your own home stack. Note that you can add additional menu items to the text of the menu, then add a customMenuPick handler to the actual button script to process them. Cu&t/x &Copy/c &Paste/v C&lear/b Select &All/a - Settings... constant cHomeStack = "Forms Generator" on menuPick pItem put homeStack() into tMainStack put the selectedChunk into tChunk put value(tChunk) into tText put word -2 to -1 of tChunk into tTarget put the selectedObject into tRealTarget if word 1 of tTarget is "field" then put (the traversalOn of tTarget) and not (the locktext of tTarget) into tAllowEdits end if switch pItem case "Cut" if tText is not empty then \ set the clipboardData ["text"] to tText if tAllowEdits then put "put empty into" && tChunk into tCommand do tCommand end if break case "Copy" if tText is not empty then \ set the clipboardData ["text"] to tText break case "Paste" if tAllowEdits and the clipboardData ["text"] is not empty then \ put "put the clipboardData [text] into" && tChunk into tCommand do tCommand break case "Clear" if tAllowEdits then \ put "put empty into" && tChunk into tCommand do tCommand break case "Select All" try select char 1 to -1 of tTarget end try break case "Find" if there is a field "FindBar" then focus on field "FindBar" exit to top break case "Settings..." if there is a card "Settings" of stack me then go card "Settings" of stack me else go card "Settings" of stack homeStack() end if break default dispatch "customMenuPick" to me with pItem end switch pass menuPick end menuPick on customMenuPick pItem Return empty end customMenuPick getProp displayName -- code return "Sly Edits" end displayName function homeStack put "stack" && quote & cHomeStack & quote into tMainStack return tMainStack end homeStack > On Sep 15, 2023, at 12:02 PM, Tom Glod via use-livecode wrote: > > Heyall, > > Just wondering if anyone else has experienced issues where livecode stops > being able to copy to the clipboard when using copy command from the menu > or CTRL C or right click copy > Specifically from within the script editor or a variable window. > A LC restart seems to solve this temporarily. > I've noticed this recently more than usual. On both mac and windows 11. > > Does this ring a bell to anyone? > > Thanks, > > Tom > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From klaus at major-k.de Fri Sep 15 16:48:21 2023 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 22:48:21 +0200 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <003201d9e810$bd72d300$38587900$@net> References: <5B209DCA-0E6C-4D30-B8FA-067FA2F1BB1D@major-k.de> <23C5FB9A-C5AC-4B0F-ACE2-30375664FB73@earthlearningsolutions.org> <003201d9e810$bd72d300$38587900$@net> Message-ID: <8A467306-071C-48D8-9975-FD39C77F02C5@major-k.de> Hi Ralph, > Am 15.09.2023 um 22:10 schrieb Ralph DiMola via use-livecode : > > Does accordion count? it does! Since Al Yankowic... Just kiddin'. :-D > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of William Prothero via use-livecode > Sent: Friday, September 15, 2023 2:56 PM > To: How to use LiveCode > Cc: William Prothero > Subject: Re: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) > > Mark and Klaus, > Wow, folks I didn't know were musicians! > I use iReal Pro too. It's great for practice. And, easily transposes. But as a keyboard player, I use the notes of the tune to shape my solos. iReal Pro only has the chords. It's still useful, though. > > Best,🎶🎶 > Bill Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 15 16:50:21 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 20:50:21 +0000 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <23C5FB9A-C5AC-4B0F-ACE2-30375664FB73@earthlearningsolutions.org> References: <5B209DCA-0E6C-4D30-B8FA-067FA2F1BB1D@major-k.de> <23C5FB9A-C5AC-4B0F-ACE2-30375664FB73@earthlearningsolutions.org> Message-ID: <53068E58-8269-4ADF-A4D0-64F134111979@iotecdigital.com> I used to be a musician until I looked up one day and discovered that no one was listening. I guess people got used to the idea that music was just supposed to be background noise, and so they treated live musicians the same way. You see it in bars with live bands all the time. That is why I try to pay special attention to live bands and applaud loudly between every song. Unless they suck. ;-) Bob S > On Sep 15, 2023, at 11:56 AM, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote: > > Mark and Klaus, > Wow, folks I didn't know were musicians! > I use iReal Pro too. It's great for practice. And, easily transposes. But as a keyboard player, I use the notes of the tune to shape my solos. iReal Pro only has the chords. It's still useful, though. > > Best,🎶🎶🎶 > Bill > > William A. Prothero, PhD > Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science > University of California, Santa Barbara > >> On Sep 15, 2023, at 11:50 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Hi Mark, >> >>> Am 15.09.2023 um 20:26 schrieb Mark Wieder via use-livecode : >>>> On 9/15/23 10:13, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >>>> I also own "iReal Pro" for Mac which can output PDF if I need one >>>> and I also still own a printed version of the "Real Book I". :-) >>> The only reason I have a 10" tablet is to run iRealPro on it. >>> Hard to imagine doing without it. >> >> good boy! :-) >> >>> -- >>> Mark Wieder >>> ahsoftware at gmail.com >> >> Best >> >> Klaus >> >> -- >> Klaus Major >> https://www.major-k.de >> https://www.major-k.de/bass >> klaus at major-k.de >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Sep 15 19:16:14 2023 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 18:16:14 -0500 Subject: Clipboard Copy Troubles? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <18a9b216e30.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Yes, often. LC loses most of the editing shortcuts. It got fixed some versions ago and then lost them again. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On September 15, 2023 2:04:44 PM Tom Glod via use-livecode wrote: > Heyall, > > Just wondering if anyone else has experienced issues where livecode stops > being able to copy to the clipboard when using copy command from the menu > or CTRL C or right click copy > Specifically from within the script editor or a variable window. > A LC restart seems to solve this temporarily. > I've noticed this recently more than usual. On both mac and windows 11. > > Does this ring a bell to anyone? > > Thanks, > > Tom > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Fri Sep 15 21:11:32 2023 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2023 11:11:32 +1000 Subject: Encoding in LC server - the final piece of the puzzle Message-ID: With the help of forum readers I have textEncode/Decode working in LC Server so that I can handle file names with ute-8 encoding and talking to mysql in tongues. But now I want to produce html documents including Chinese characters encoded with utf-8, using LC Server to output an .lc file to publish on the web. I had naively thought that putting in the “” header at the top would do it, but no, LC Server apparently serves up html with charset=ISO-8859-1 (the native encoding) declared by default, and that overrides the header in the .lc file. The encoding declared was checked using "Rex Swains HTTP Viewer”. I am reasonably confident the actual content of the file is correct utf-8, since the Chinese glyphs are rendered as garbage ISO-Latin characters not as ???? The next step was adding a line such as AddCharset UTF-8 .lc to .htaccess. No help. I note that other web pages on the server are created by WordPress, and they have the charset=utf-8 declared. I presume I am ignorant of some environment setting which controls what HTTPHeader is declared in the output from LCServer? The obvious choice “the HTTPHeaders” but that is not the answer it seems. [I know I can get individual unicode characters to render using html escapes such as &x2304; even when the page is declared with a non-unicode encoding, but that is not a viable solution here.] Neville Smythe From ahsoftware at sonic.net Fri Sep 15 21:11:58 2023 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 18:11:58 -0700 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <53068E58-8269-4ADF-A4D0-64F134111979@iotecdigital.com> References: <5B209DCA-0E6C-4D30-B8FA-067FA2F1BB1D@major-k.de> <23C5FB9A-C5AC-4B0F-ACE2-30375664FB73@earthlearningsolutions.org> <53068E58-8269-4ADF-A4D0-64F134111979@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <125b5a69-078b-6927-83eb-6eee94c7af8f@sonic.net> On 9/15/23 13:50, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > I used to be a musician until I looked up one day and discovered that no one was listening. I guess people got used to the idea that music was just supposed to be background noise, and so they treated live musicians the same way. You see it in bars with live bands all the time. That is why I try to pay special attention to live bands and applaud loudly between every song. Unless they suck. ;-) I was at a wedding a few years ago and during the band's break the bandleader came up to me and said "you're a musician, right?" I asked how he knew and he said "you were paying attention while we played". What got to me was their medley of "La Vie en Rose"->"Samba de Orfeu". -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ahsoftware at sonic.net Fri Sep 15 21:12:30 2023 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 18:12:30 -0700 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <003201d9e810$bd72d300$38587900$@net> References: <5B209DCA-0E6C-4D30-B8FA-067FA2F1BB1D@major-k.de> <23C5FB9A-C5AC-4B0F-ACE2-30375664FB73@earthlearningsolutions.org> <003201d9e810$bd72d300$38587900$@net> Message-ID: On 9/15/23 13:10, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote: > Does accordion count? You know the definition of perfect pitch, right? -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From tom at makeshyft.com Fri Sep 15 21:41:33 2023 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 21:41:33 -0400 Subject: Clipboard Copy Troubles? In-Reply-To: <18a9b216e30.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <18a9b216e30.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Sigh. ok. thanks . Found this ...https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23507 but this could also be something different... "A bug that has been affecting livecode for a long time..." On Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 7:17 PM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Yes, often. LC loses most of the editing shortcuts. It got fixed some > versions ago and then lost them again. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > On September 15, 2023 2:04:44 PM Tom Glod via use-livecode > wrote: > > > Heyall, > > > > Just wondering if anyone else has experienced issues where livecode stops > > being able to copy to the clipboard when using copy command from the menu > > or CTRL C or right click copy > > Specifically from within the script editor or a variable window. > > A LC restart seems to solve this temporarily. > > I've noticed this recently more than usual. On both mac and windows 11. > > > > Does this ring a bell to anyone? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Tom > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 15 22:02:01 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2023 02:02:01 +0000 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: References: <5B209DCA-0E6C-4D30-B8FA-067FA2F1BB1D@major-k.de> <23C5FB9A-C5AC-4B0F-ACE2-30375664FB73@earthlearningsolutions.org> <003201d9e810$bd72d300$38587900$@net> Message-ID: Yes. It’s the one that no batter can hit. Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 15, 2023, at 18:14, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > > On 9/15/23 13:10, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote: >> Does accordion count? > > You know the definition of perfect pitch, right? > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From rabit at revigniter.com Sat Sep 16 05:50:40 2023 From: rabit at revigniter.com (Ralf Bitter) Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2023 11:50:40 +0200 Subject: Encoding in LC server - the final piece of the puzzle In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Neville, did you try: put header "Content-Type: text/html; charset=" & quote & "UTF-8" & quote before sending the output to the client? Ralf On 16.09.2023 03:11, Neville Smythe via use-livecode wrote: > With the help of forum readers I have textEncode/Decode working in LC Server so that I can handle file names with ute-8 encoding and talking to mysql in tongues. > > But now I want to produce html documents including Chinese characters encoded with utf-8, using LC Server to output an .lc file to publish on the web. I had naively thought that putting in the header at the top would do it, but no, LC Server apparently serves up html with charset=ISO-8859-1 (the native encoding) declared by default, and that overrides the header in the .lc file. The encoding declared was checked using "Rex Swains HTTP Viewer. I am reasonably confident the actual content of the file is correct utf-8, since the Chinese glyphs are rendered as garbage ISO-Latin characters not as ???? > > The next step was adding a line such as > > AddCharset UTF-8 .lc > > to .htaccess. No help. I note that other web pages on the server are created by WordPress, and they have the charset=utf-8 declared. > > I presume I am ignorant of some environment setting which controls what HTTPHeader is declared in the output from LCServer? The obvious choice the HTTPHeaders but that is not the answer it seems. > > [I know I can get individual unicode characters to render using html escapes such as &x2304; even when the page is declared with a non-unicode encoding, but that is not a viable solution here.] > > Neville Smythe From gcanyon at gmail.com Sat Sep 16 12:12:10 2023 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2023 12:12:10 -0400 Subject: Your scripts as a flowchart In-Reply-To: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> References: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> Message-ID: Does it not handle script-only stack behaviors? I get a blank display for Navigator (which has no code other than SoS behaviors). gc On Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 10:32 AM Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi all! > > Those frequenting the forums may have seen this already, but I thought I'd > share it here too now: > > If you want to see a graphic map of the inter-relations of all the > handlers in the scripts of your LiveCode projects, my tool > ScriptDependencies now features an extremely cool flowchart output (using > the Mermaid javascript lib). > > Here’s an example of how a script flowchart can look: > https://wheninspace.com/browseranimation/WIS_ScriptDependencies_example.png > > A few easy steps to test it on your own scripts: > > 1) Download ScriptDependencies here: > https://github.com/wheninspace/WIS_ScriptDepedencies/releases/latest > > 2) Open the stack, click the top left cog wheel and add at least one stack > (that has at least some handlers calling other handlers) to a project. > 3) Close the project pane and click "Start mapping and analysis”. > 4) Click ”Create flowchart”. Boom! :) > > On Mac, the browser widget can display the flowchart in-stack, enabling > some interactivity (click a node to highlight the arrows to and from it). > On Windows and Linux, where the browser widget has, er... room for > improvement…, the flowchart is instead displayed in an external browser > window (minus interactivity). > > My intention with ScriptDependencies is to provide a code analysis and > live documentation tool (of some kind) for LiveCode projects. I need it > myself for some big LC projects, and thought it might be useful also for > other LC devs. > > The tool has been thoroughly tested by LC veterans like bn (Bernd), jacque > (Jacqueline) and mwieder (Mike), who have all provided invaluable feedback > and improvement suggestions, bringing the tool up to quite a professional > level. > > I hope you’ll find use for it - or at least enjoy seeing your scripts > presented as a bouquet of flowers, a piece of art! :) > > Any feedback is very welcome! > > /Andreas > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Sep 16 13:34:13 2023 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2023 12:34:13 -0500 Subject: Your scripts as a flowchart In-Reply-To: References: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> Message-ID: <18a9f0eaa08.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> That happened to me too with a very long script. To keep everything in view there's a lot of white space. Keep scrolling. This happens only if you have set it to use unlimited sizing. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On September 16, 2023 11:15:00 AM Geoff Canyon via use-livecode wrote: > Does it not handle script-only stack behaviors? I get a blank display for > Navigator (which has no code other than SoS behaviors). > > gc > > On Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 10:32AM Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Hi all! >> >> Those frequenting the forums may have seen this already, but I thought I'd >> share it here too now: >> >> If you want to see a graphic map of the inter-relations of all the >> handlers in the scripts of your LiveCode projects, my tool >> ScriptDependencies now features an extremely cool flowchart output (using >> the Mermaid javascript lib). >> >> Heres an example of how a script flowchart can look: >> https://wheninspace.com/browseranimation/WIS_ScriptDependencies_example.png >> >> A few easy steps to test it on your own scripts: >> >> 1) Download ScriptDependencies here: >> https://github.com/wheninspace/WIS_ScriptDepedencies/releases/latest >> >> 2) Open the stack, click the top left cog wheel and add at least one stack >> (that has at least some handlers calling other handlers) to a project. >> 3) Close the project pane and click "Start mapping and analysis. >> 4) Click Create flowchart. Boom! :) >> >> On Mac, the browser widget can display the flowchart in-stack, enabling >> some interactivity (click a node to highlight the arrows to and from it). >> On Windows and Linux, where the browser widget has, er... room for >> improvement, the flowchart is instead displayed in an external browser >> window (minus interactivity). >> >> My intention with ScriptDependencies is to provide a code analysis and >> live documentation tool (of some kind) for LiveCode projects. I need it >> myself for some big LC projects, and thought it might be useful also for >> other LC devs. >> >> The tool has been thoroughly tested by LC veterans like bn (Bernd), jacque >> (Jacqueline) and mwieder (Mike), who have all provided invaluable feedback >> and improvement suggestions, bringing the tool up to quite a professional >> level. >> >> I hope youll find use for it - or at least enjoy seeing your scripts >> presented as a bouquet of flowers, a piece of art! :) >> >> Any feedback is very welcome! >> >> /Andreas >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From gcanyon at gmail.com Sat Sep 16 16:43:06 2023 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2023 16:43:06 -0400 Subject: Your scripts as a flowchart In-Reply-To: <18a9f0eaa08.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> <18a9f0eaa08.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: I didn't change anything before generating, and the flow chart is literally blank -- unless it: 1. scrolls invisibly 2. keeps returning the project name to the upper left while scrolling 3. has *at least* 30 screens' worth of blank space at the top? On Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 1:35 PM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > That happened to me too with a very long script. To keep everything in > view > there's a lot of white space. Keep scrolling. This happens only if you > have > set it to use unlimited sizing. > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > On September 16, 2023 11:15:00 AM Geoff Canyon via use-livecode > wrote: > > > Does it not handle script-only stack behaviors? I get a blank display for > > Navigator (which has no code other than SoS behaviors). > > > > gc > > > > On Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 10:32 AM Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > >> Hi all! > >> > >> Those frequenting the forums may have seen this already, but I thought > I'd > >> share it here too now: > >> > >> If you want to see a graphic map of the inter-relations of all the > >> handlers in the scripts of your LiveCode projects, my tool > >> ScriptDependencies now features an extremely cool flowchart output > (using > >> the Mermaid javascript lib). > >> > >> Here’s an example of how a script flowchart can look: > >> > https://wheninspace.com/browseranimation/WIS_ScriptDependencies_example.png > >> > >> A few easy steps to test it on your own scripts: > >> > >> 1) Download ScriptDependencies here: > >> https://github.com/wheninspace/WIS_ScriptDepedencies/releases/latest > >> > >> 2) Open the stack, click the top left cog wheel and add at least one > stack > >> (that has at least some handlers calling other handlers) to a project. > >> 3) Close the project pane and click "Start mapping and analysis”. > >> 4) Click ”Create flowchart”. Boom! :) > >> > >> On Mac, the browser widget can display the flowchart in-stack, enabling > >> some interactivity (click a node to highlight the arrows to and from > it). > >> On Windows and Linux, where the browser widget has, er... room for > >> improvement…, the flowchart is instead displayed in an external browser > >> window (minus interactivity). > >> > >> My intention with ScriptDependencies is to provide a code analysis and > >> live documentation tool (of some kind) for LiveCode projects. I need it > >> myself for some big LC projects, and thought it might be useful also for > >> other LC devs. > >> > >> The tool has been thoroughly tested by LC veterans like bn (Bernd), > jacque > >> (Jacqueline) and mwieder (Mike), who have all provided invaluable > feedback > >> and improvement suggestions, bringing the tool up to quite a > professional > >> level. > >> > >> I hope you’ll find use for it - or at least enjoy seeing your scripts > >> presented as a bouquet of flowers, a piece of art! :) > >> > >> Any feedback is very welcome! > >> > >> /Andreas > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com Sat Sep 16 18:23:07 2023 From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal) Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2023 00:23:07 +0200 Subject: Your scripts as a flowchart In-Reply-To: References: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> <18a9f0eaa08.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <023C9AEA-7B3A-455E-B6DC-18164BBF04B5@gmail.com> As long as you include all the script-only stacks in the analysis, they will be handled. The tool will not look for behaviors and auto-include them. Every stack that has relevant code must be included manually in the project pane. If you have many SoSs, you can quickly add them all by adding the whole folder they are in. How many handlers does the analysis find? /Andreas > 16 sep. 2023 kl. 22:43 skrev Geoff Canyon via use-livecode : > > I didn't change anything before generating, and the flow chart is literally > blank -- unless it: > > 1. scrolls invisibly > 2. keeps returning the project name to the upper left while scrolling > 3. has *at least* 30 screens' worth of blank space at the top? > > On Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 1:35 PM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> That happened to me too with a very long script. To keep everything in >> view >> there's a lot of white space. Keep scrolling. This happens only if you >> have >> set it to use unlimited sizing. >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> On September 16, 2023 11:15:00 AM Geoff Canyon via use-livecode >> wrote: >> >>> Does it not handle script-only stack behaviors? I get a blank display for >>> Navigator (which has no code other than SoS behaviors). >>> >>> gc From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Sat Sep 16 19:56:36 2023 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2023 09:56:36 +1000 Subject: Encoding in LC server - the final piece of the puzzle Message-ID: <41998E45-CFDD-4B1F-BED4-BBF641974CDD@optusnet.com.au> Ralf wrote > did you try: > > put header "Content-Type: text/html; charset=" & quote & "UTF-8" & quote > > before sending the output to the client? That sounds exactly like the incantation I needed. But I can’t get it to work. The first 3 lines of my webPage.lc file are (Not sure that 3rd line is necessary with HTML5, but presumably it couldn’t hurt) The header suggested just seems to be ignored when LC Server sends the output to Apache. (Tried it with “put new header…” too after I found some documentation for the magic spell.) The default setting for Apache on Dreamhost is naturally the native encoding ISO-8859-1.(Is there any way to override that with htaccess, since all my WordPress pages are served as utf-8 already?) Neville Smythe From gcanyon at gmail.com Sat Sep 16 20:04:38 2023 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2023 20:04:38 -0400 Subject: Your scripts as a flowchart In-Reply-To: <023C9AEA-7B3A-455E-B6DC-18164BBF04B5@gmail.com> References: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> <18a9f0eaa08.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <023C9AEA-7B3A-455E-B6DC-18164BBF04B5@gmail.com> Message-ID: Ah, okay, that explains it. In Navigator, *everything* is a script-only stack behavior. In a few of the substacks there are scripts for a few template objects or where script-only-stack behaviors were inconvenient (I don't remember why, honestly). That has it working, and the resulting diagram is nice. Navigator does a similar survey (without the visualization, that's a neat trick). Navigator reports: 302986 characters in 8092 lines in 112 scripts in 885 objects. ScriptDependencies reports: 341 unique handler names - 407 commands, 124 functions, 1 setProps regards, Geoff On Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 6:24 PM Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > As long as you include all the script-only stacks in the analysis, they > will be handled. > The tool will not look for behaviors and auto-include them. Every stack > that has relevant code must be included manually in the project pane. If > you have many SoSs, you can quickly add them all by adding the whole folder > they are in. > > How many handlers does the analysis find? > > /Andreas > > > > 16 sep. 2023 kl. 22:43 skrev Geoff Canyon via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: > > > > I didn't change anything before generating, and the flow chart is > literally > > blank -- unless it: > > > > 1. scrolls invisibly > > 2. keeps returning the project name to the upper left while scrolling > > 3. has *at least* 30 screens' worth of blank space at the top? > > > > On Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 1:35 PM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > >> That happened to me too with a very long script. To keep everything in > >> view > >> there's a lot of white space. Keep scrolling. This happens only if you > >> have > >> set it to use unlimited sizing. > >> -- > >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > >> On September 16, 2023 11:15:00 AM Geoff Canyon via use-livecode > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Does it not handle script-only stack behaviors? I get a blank display > for > >>> Navigator (which has no code other than SoS behaviors). > >>> > >>> gc > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From rabit at revigniter.com Sun Sep 17 06:31:12 2023 From: rabit at revigniter.com (Ralf Bitter) Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2023 12:31:12 +0200 Subject: Encoding in LC server - the final piece of the puzzle In-Reply-To: <41998E45-CFDD-4B1F-BED4-BBF641974CDD@optusnet.com.au> References: <41998E45-CFDD-4B1F-BED4-BBF641974CDD@optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: Neville, you need to send the header before outputting anything else. So, this means your LC server script should send the header and then the HTML data. Ralf On 17.09.2023 01:56, Neville Smythe via use-livecode wrote: > > Ralf wrote >> did you try: >> >> put header "Content-Type: text/html; charset=" & quote & "UTF-8" & quote >> >> before sending the output to the client? > > > That sounds exactly like the incantation I needed. > > But I cant get it to work. > > The first 3 lines of my webPage.lc file are > > > > > > (Not sure that 3rd line is necessary with HTML5, but presumably it couldnt hurt) > > The header suggested just seems to be ignored when LC Server sends the output to Apache. (Tried it with put new header too after I found some documentation for the magic spell.) > > The default setting for Apache on Dreamhost is naturally the native encoding ISO-8859-1.(Is there any way to override that with htaccess, since all my WordPress pages are served as utf-8 already?) > > Neville Smythe From jbv at souslelogo.com Sun Sep 17 08:32:35 2023 From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com) Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2023 08:32:35 -0400 Subject: revXML and UTF-8 Message-ID: Hi list, I have a text file encoded in UTF-8. Each line of the file is an xml node with several sub-nodes and attributes. I have a loop in LC that reads lines one by one and creates an xml tree with revXMLCreateTree. The goal is to parse each line and extract some data. The problem is that, when for instance data is japanese or chinese characters, the data always outputs as ????. When opening the file I use : open file myFile for UTF8 read I tried to insert before each line : and also : put textEncode(myLine,"UTF8") into myLine Is there a way to declare an xml tree as UTF-8 ? Thank you in advance, jbv From paul at researchware.com Sun Sep 17 09:32:13 2023 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2023 09:32:13 -0400 Subject: revXML and UTF-8 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <579a4a01-f82e-e472-0929-6d63d4fb6990@researchware.com> There are a number of "rev" libraries (revXML, revZIP, perhaps others) that are not fully Unicode compatible. See: https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18942 (revXML, revZIP) https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22202 (revZIP) ... and possibly others. There are no work-arounds for not being Unicode compatible (at least none I know of). In my opinion, bugs with no work-around should be among LC's higher priorities for bug fixes. On 9/17/2023 8:32 AM, jbv via use-livecode wrote: > Hi list, > > I have a text file encoded in UTF-8. Each line of the file > is an xml node with several sub-nodes and attributes. > > I have a loop in LC that reads lines one by one and creates > an xml tree with revXMLCreateTree. The goal is to parse each > line and extract some data. > > The problem is that, when for instance data is japanese or > chinese characters, the data always outputs as ????. > > When opening the file I use : > open file myFile for UTF8 read > > I tried to insert before each line : > > > and also : > put textEncode(myLine,"UTF8") into myLine > > Is there a way to declare an xml tree as UTF-8 ? > > Thank you in advance, > jbv > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jbv at souslelogo.com Sun Sep 17 11:04:59 2023 From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com) Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2023 11:04:59 -0400 Subject: revXML and UTF-8 In-Reply-To: <579a4a01-f82e-e472-0929-6d63d4fb6990@researchware.com> References: <579a4a01-f82e-e472-0929-6d63d4fb6990@researchware.com> Message-ID: <6d3e167178e3b39e25a024747ccdba6a@souslelogo.com> Thank you for your reply. I found a workaround, but not a very elegant one : when xml parsing returns some "????", I start the parsing again, but I process the line as plain text and not as xml. It's about as fast. Le 2023-09-17 09:32, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode a crit : > There are a number of "rev" libraries (revXML, revZIP, perhaps others) > that are not fully Unicode compatible. > > See: > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18942 (revXML, revZIP) > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22202 (revZIP) > > ... and possibly others. There are no work-arounds for not being > Unicode compatible (at least none I know of). In my opinion, bugs with > no work-around should be among LC's higher priorities for bug fixes. > > > On 9/17/2023 8:32 AM, jbv via use-livecode wrote: >> Hi list, >> >> I have a text file encoded in UTF-8. Each line of the file >> is an xml node with several sub-nodes and attributes. >> >> I have a loop in LC that reads lines one by one and creates >> an xml tree with revXMLCreateTree. The goal is to parse each >> line and extract some data. >> >> The problem is that, when for instance data is japanese or >> chinese characters, the data always outputs as ????. >> >> When opening the file I use : >> open file myFile for UTF8 read >> >> I tried to insert before each line : >> >> >> and also : >> put textEncode(myLine,"UTF8") into myLine >> >> Is there a way to declare an xml tree as UTF-8 ? >> >> Thank you in advance, >> jbv >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From harrison at all-auctions.com Sun Sep 17 14:35:46 2023 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com) Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2023 14:35:46 -0400 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: References: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> <18a9f0eaa08.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <0A9CBCE4-2810-44C9-9812-300D6166C5E2@all-auctions.com> Has anyone built Forum Software with LiveCode? There are a lot of PHP ones, but I have yet to find one that was built with LiveCode. PHP is hacked all the time, and I have found hacker bots that try to hack my server all the time by exploiting holes in PHP. They even try to install PHP on my server so they can then use it to hack my server! I think Forum Software built with LiveCode could be more secure, but I don’t want to build it myself if someone has already created it. Suggestions? Thanks, Rick From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Sun Sep 17 19:58:22 2023 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2023 09:58:22 +1000 Subject: Encoding in LC server - the final piece of the puzzle Message-ID: <2B2FF5F2-A672-4196-982A-4DF0DF6C0B38@optusnet.com.au> So all I had to do was move that “put header..” to the first line of the script, and abracadabra, all is now working. Many many thanks Ralf, I think I have a smidgeon better understanding of how LC interacts with Apache. Ralf wrote > did you try: > > put header "Content-Type: text/html; charset=" & quote & "UTF-8" & quote > > ***before*** [my emphasis] sending the [html] output to the client? Neville Smythe From gcanyon at gmail.com Sun Sep 17 21:38:42 2023 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2023 21:38:42 -0400 Subject: Your scripts as a flowchart In-Reply-To: References: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> <18a9f0eaa08.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <023C9AEA-7B3A-455E-B6DC-18164BBF04B5@gmail.com> Message-ID: Is there a way to export the entire flowchart, instead of just the portion currently displayed? As an aside, I don't know whether to be proud or horrified at the map Navigator produces... On Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 8:04 PM Geoff Canyon wrote: > Ah, okay, that explains it. In Navigator, *everything* is a script-only > stack behavior. In a few of the substacks there are scripts for a few > template objects or where script-only-stack behaviors were inconvenient (I > don't remember why, honestly). > > That has it working, and the resulting diagram is nice. Navigator does a > similar survey (without the visualization, that's a neat trick). > > Navigator reports: > > 302986 characters in > 8092 lines in > 112 scripts in > 885 objects. > > ScriptDependencies reports: > > 341 unique handler names - 407 commands, 124 functions, 1 setProps > > regards, > > Geoff > > On Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 6:24 PM Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> As long as you include all the script-only stacks in the analysis, they >> will be handled. >> The tool will not look for behaviors and auto-include them. Every stack >> that has relevant code must be included manually in the project pane. If >> you have many SoSs, you can quickly add them all by adding the whole folder >> they are in. >> >> How many handlers does the analysis find? >> >> /Andreas >> >> >> > 16 sep. 2023 kl. 22:43 skrev Geoff Canyon via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: >> > >> > I didn't change anything before generating, and the flow chart is >> literally >> > blank -- unless it: >> > >> > 1. scrolls invisibly >> > 2. keeps returning the project name to the upper left while scrolling >> > 3. has *at least* 30 screens' worth of blank space at the top? >> > >> > On Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 1:35 PM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < >> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> > >> >> That happened to me too with a very long script. To keep everything in >> >> view >> >> there's a lot of white space. Keep scrolling. This happens only if you >> >> have >> >> set it to use unlimited sizing. >> >> -- >> >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> >> On September 16, 2023 11:15:00 AM Geoff Canyon via use-livecode >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >>> Does it not handle script-only stack behaviors? I get a blank display >> for >> >>> Navigator (which has no code other than SoS behaviors). >> >>> >> >>> gc >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Sun Sep 17 22:23:27 2023 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2023 22:23:27 -0400 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: References: <5B209DCA-0E6C-4D30-B8FA-067FA2F1BB1D@major-k.de> <23C5FB9A-C5AC-4B0F-ACE2-30375664FB73@earthlearningsolutions.org> <003201d9e810$bd72d300$38587900$@net> Message-ID: <003601d9e9d7$1e68b7c0$5b3a2740$@net> Was invited to an experimental Jazz show yesterday. I finally realized that all jazz is experimental. "Jazz is not dead it just smells funny" Frank Zappa What do you call a person who hangs out with musicians? Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Bob Sneidar via use-livecode Sent: Friday, September 15, 2023 10:02 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Bob Sneidar Subject: Re: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) Yes. It’s the one that no batter can hit. Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 15, 2023, at 18:14, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > > On 9/15/23 13:10, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote: >> Does accordion count? > > You know the definition of perfect pitch, right? > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com Mon Sep 18 08:09:40 2023 From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2023 14:09:40 +0200 Subject: Your scripts as a flowchart In-Reply-To: References: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> <18a9f0eaa08.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <023C9AEA-7B3A-455E-B6DC-18164BBF04B5@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8D1EE25E-8334-44C2-B451-F17F281AFC52@gmail.com> Getting a full export is a tricky business, and I’m looking at various solutions. The easiest workaround is to launch the flowchart in a web browser and print to PDF from there. On Windows/Linux the flowchart is shown that way anyway, and on Mac you load it in a web browser by shift-clicking the Create flowchart button. The obvious downside of printing to pdf is that you get page breaks that split up the flowchart. Another workaround is to paste the Mermaid code into an online editor like https://mermaid.live and then export to PNG from there. What looks more promising for actually solving it in-stack though, is using the command-line interface (CLI) for Mermaid to generate an svg/png/pdf file: https://github.com/mermaid-js/mermaid-cli I’ll experiment with that and see what I can come up with. :) > As an aside, I don't know whether to be proud or horrified at the map > Navigator produces… Yeah, I know the feeling… :D /Andreas > 18 sep. 2023 kl. 03:38 skrev Geoff Canyon via use-livecode : > > Is there a way to export the entire flowchart, instead of just the portion > currently displayed? > > As an aside, I don't know whether to be proud or horrified at the map > Navigator produces... > > On Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 8:04 PM Geoff Canyon wrote: > >> Ah, okay, that explains it. In Navigator, *everything* is a script-only >> stack behavior. In a few of the substacks there are scripts for a few >> template objects or where script-only-stack behaviors were inconvenient (I >> don't remember why, honestly). >> >> That has it working, and the resulting diagram is nice. Navigator does a >> similar survey (without the visualization, that's a neat trick). >> >> Navigator reports: >> >> 302986 characters in >> 8092 lines in >> 112 scripts in >> 885 objects. >> >> ScriptDependencies reports: >> >> 341 unique handler names - 407 commands, 124 functions, 1 setProps >> >> regards, >> >> Geoff >> >> On Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 6:24 PM Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>> As long as you include all the script-only stacks in the analysis, they >>> will be handled. >>> The tool will not look for behaviors and auto-include them. Every stack >>> that has relevant code must be included manually in the project pane. If >>> you have many SoSs, you can quickly add them all by adding the whole folder >>> they are in. >>> >>> How many handlers does the analysis find? >>> >>> /Andreas >>> >>> >>>> 16 sep. 2023 kl. 22:43 skrev Geoff Canyon via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: >>>> >>>> I didn't change anything before generating, and the flow chart is >>> literally >>>> blank -- unless it: >>>> >>>> 1. scrolls invisibly >>>> 2. keeps returning the project name to the upper left while scrolling >>>> 3. has *at least* 30 screens' worth of blank space at the top? >>>> >>>> On Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 1:35 PM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> That happened to me too with a very long script. To keep everything in >>>>> view >>>>> there's a lot of white space. Keep scrolling. This happens only if you >>>>> have >>>>> set it to use unlimited sizing. >>>>> -- >>>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>>>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>>>> On September 16, 2023 11:15:00 AM Geoff Canyon via use-livecode >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Does it not handle script-only stack behaviors? I get a blank display >>> for >>>>>> Navigator (which has no code other than SoS behaviors). >>>>>> >>>>>> gc >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org Mon Sep 18 11:20:12 2023 From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (William Prothero) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2023 08:20:12 -0700 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <003601d9e9d7$1e68b7c0$5b3a2740$@net> References: <003601d9e9d7$1e68b7c0$5b3a2740$@net> Message-ID: <4F0DA6FD-E972-4084-A222-924B335DC4AC@earthlearningsolutions.org> Ralph: Noteworthy?🎶🎶🎶 Bill William A. Prothero, PhD Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science University of California, Santa Barbara > On Sep 17, 2023, at 2:24 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote: > > Was invited to an experimental Jazz show yesterday. I finally realized that all jazz is experimental. > > "Jazz is not dead it just smells funny" > Frank Zappa > > > What do you call a person who hangs out with musicians? > > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Bob Sneidar via use-livecode > Sent: Friday, September 15, 2023 10:02 PM > To: How to use LiveCode > Cc: Bob Sneidar > Subject: Re: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) > > Yes. It’s the one that no batter can hit. > > Sent from my iPhone > >>> On Sep 15, 2023, at 18:14, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> On 9/15/23 13:10, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote: >>> Does accordion count? >> >> You know the definition of perfect pitch, right? >> >> -- >> Mark Wieder >> ahsoftware at gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Sep 18 13:57:13 2023 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2023 17:57:13 +0000 Subject: Forum Software LC? Message-ID: <20230918175713.Horde.fSxt5xRFtEQ7n6s2Ul9IXLB@hub.4wsys.com> Rick Harrison wrote: > Has anyone built Forum Software with LiveCode? There are a lot of PHP > ones, but I have yet to find one that was built with LiveCode. PHP is > hacked all the time, and I have found hacker bots that try to hack my > server all the time by exploiting holes in PHP.  They even try to install > PHP on my server so they can then use it to hack my server! I think > Forum Software built with LiveCode could be more secure, but I dont > want to build it myself if someone has already created it. Suggestions?   Don't build it yourself. It's a lot of work.  Software is almost always more affordable to buy than build, and most forum packages these days are FOSS and free of cost. Crafting the user experience alone would take months to do well.  And if you think security is lacking in established packages see what happens when you roll your own. ;)   Use Discourse.  There are others, but Discourse is currently the go-to choice for new forums.  Great UX, open source.   Another option that's become increasingly popular is to ditch hosting your own forum altogether and using Discord instead. Forums can be set up there for free, with native mobile apps available and rich APIs if you need to customize anything.   --   Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems   From andre at andregarzia.com Mon Sep 18 14:52:27 2023 From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2023 19:52:27 +0100 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: <20230918175713.Horde.fSxt5xRFtEQ7n6s2Ul9IXLB@hub.4wsys.com> References: <20230918175713.Horde.fSxt5xRFtEQ7n6s2Ul9IXLB@hub.4wsys.com> Message-ID: Just be aware that discord has horrible threading. Never run your own stuff on the web unless you’re really sure what you’re doing (unless it is read-only stuff). Preventing SQL and Scripting injection is not a trivial thing to do and in that sense LiveCode and PHP are kinda the same. Doing a forum in LiveCode is a cool experience and will teach you a lot, but if you’re gonna do it, you will need to be prepared to get really good into other aspects of development beyond LiveCode. You’ll need a very good grasp of Web technologies such as HTML, CSS, JS. You will also need a good understanding of servers, protocols, and databases. As Richard said, it is not an easy project. > On 18 Sep 2023, at 18:57, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > Rick Harrison wrote: >> Has anyone built Forum Software with LiveCode? > There are a lot of PHP >> ones, but I have yet to > find one that was built with LiveCode. > > PHP is >> hacked all the time, and I have found > hacker bots that try to hack my >> server all > the time by exploiting holes in PHP. They > even try to install >> PHP on my server so they > can then use it to hack my server! > > I think >> Forum Software built with LiveCode > could be more secure, but I don’t >> want to > build it myself if someone has already > created it. > > Suggestions? > > > Don't build it yourself. It's a lot of work. Software is almost always more affordable to buy than build, and most forum packages these days are FOSS and free of cost. > > Crafting the user experience alone would take months to do well. And if you think security is lacking in established packages see what happens when you roll your own. ;) > > Use Discourse. There are others, but Discourse is currently the go-to choice for new forums. Great UX, open source. > > Another option that's become increasingly popular is to ditch hosting your own forum altogether and using Discord instead. Forums can be set up there for free, with native mobile apps available and rich APIs if you need to customize anything. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From harrison at all-auctions.com Mon Sep 18 15:29:04 2023 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2023 15:29:04 -0400 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: <20230918175713.Horde.fSxt5xRFtEQ7n6s2Ul9IXLB@hub.4wsys.com> References: <20230918175713.Horde.fSxt5xRFtEQ7n6s2Ul9IXLB@hub.4wsys.com> Message-ID: Hi Richard, Why is Discourse better than Dat-course? LOL Discourse is $50 per month! No free option for that. Thanks for your input. Rick > On Sep 18, 2023, at 1:57 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > > Don't build it yourself. It's a lot of work. Software is almost always more affordable to buy than build, and most forum packages these days are FOSS and free of cost. > > Crafting the user experience alone would take months to do well. And if you think security is lacking in established packages see what happens when you roll your own. ;) > > Use Discourse. There are others, but Discourse is currently the go-to choice for new forums. Great UX, open source. > > Another option that's become increasingly popular is to ditch hosting your own forum altogether and using Discord instead. Forums can be set up there for free, with native mobile apps available and rich APIs if you need to customize anything. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems From harrison at all-auctions.com Mon Sep 18 15:50:27 2023 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2023 15:50:27 -0400 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: References: <20230918175713.Horde.fSxt5xRFtEQ7n6s2Ul9IXLB@hub.4wsys.com> Message-ID: <61AE1F62-E9DD-402E-8AF0-93240C80FB60@all-auctions.com> Hi Andre, I have already worked with all of those for years. Thanks for the warning anyway. Rick > On Sep 18, 2023, at 2:52 PM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode wrote: > > You’ll need a very good grasp of Web technologies such as HTML, CSS, JS. You will also need a good understanding of servers, protocols, and databases. From bogdanoff at me.com Tue Sep 19 16:41:40 2023 From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2023 13:41:40 -0700 Subject: Alternate key commands in LC ???? Message-ID: <62398573-7F94-4153-9275-C2D64B2B2577@me.com> Reading this article about the MacOS copy and paste: https://tidbits.com/2016/06/11/os-x-hidden-treasures-copy-and-paste/ It mentions the (secret) OS X alternate clipboard — kill and yank — that uses control-K to kill (cut) and control-Y to yank (paste) in some MacOS apps. Comes from the Emacs text editor (that was a loooong time ago). I tried it in an LC field and discovered some unknowns-to-me: Control-K does kill (cut) selected text Control-Y does not seem to do anything—does not yank (paste) (I haven’t yet figured out how to yank-paste killed-cut text) Control-K without a selection but the cursor placed within a line of text kills (cuts) all the text after the cursor/insertion point Put the cursor somewhere within a line/paragraph of text and Control-A moves the cursor to the beginning of the paragraph Control-E moves the cursor to the end of the paragraph Control-F moves the cursor one character to the right Control-O does a weird thing of adding a carriage return after the cursor and simultaneously moves the cursor to the left one character, so you can easily end up with something like: c h a r a c t e r Maybe there’s more? Windows? Peter Bogdanoff From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Sep 20 01:33:34 2023 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2023 08:33:34 +0300 Subject: Alternate key commands in LC ???? In-Reply-To: <62398573-7F94-4153-9275-C2D64B2B2577@me.com> References: <62398573-7F94-4153-9275-C2D64B2B2577@me.com> Message-ID: As I use computers running Linux and MacOS, my Macs are set up so the roles of the CMD and CTRL keys are reversed. It will be interesting to see if it affects these alternate key commands with the IDE. On Tue, 19 Sept 2023, 23:42 Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode, < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Reading this article about the MacOS copy and paste: > https://tidbits.com/2016/06/11/os-x-hidden-treasures-copy-and-paste/ > > It mentions the (secret) OS X alternate clipboard — kill and yank — that > uses control-K to kill (cut) and control-Y to yank (paste) in some MacOS > apps. Comes from the Emacs text editor (that was a loooong time ago). > > I tried it in an LC field and discovered some unknowns-to-me: > > Control-K does kill (cut) selected text > Control-Y does not seem to do anything—does not yank (paste) > (I haven’t yet figured out how to yank-paste killed-cut text) > Control-K without a selection but the cursor placed within a line of text > kills (cuts) all the text after the cursor/insertion point > > Put the cursor somewhere within a line/paragraph of text and Control-A > moves the cursor to the beginning of the paragraph > Control-E moves the cursor to the end of the paragraph > Control-F moves the cursor one character to the right > > Control-O does a weird thing of adding a carriage return after the cursor > and simultaneously moves the cursor to the left one character, so you can > easily end up with something like: > > c > h > a > r > a > c > t > e > r > > Maybe there’s more? Windows? > > Peter Bogdanoff > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Sep 20 11:38:56 2023 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2023 08:38:56 -0700 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5186c1aa-d7ab-79c0-d3ce-67bf5b7b2116@fourthworld.com> Rick Harrison wrote: > On Sep 18, 2023, at 1:57 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> >> Use Discourse. There are others, but Discourse is currently the >> go-to choice for new forums. Great UX, open source. > > Discourse is $50 per month! No free option for that. If you want the core team to also host and support it, yes, you can hire them to do that for a monthly fee. And for less than the cost of an hour's billable time, having their team handle everything can be a good value. The project is open source, so you can also host it yourself: https://github.com/discourse/discourse/blob/main/docs/INSTALL-cloud.md -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Sep 20 11:51:56 2023 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2023 08:51:56 -0700 Subject: LC domain for sale: livecodeworld.com Message-ID: <78e95779-1aca-d77a-8e67-f58524c5a767@fourthworld.com> I had two extra LC-related domains, one of them sold quickly to a member of our community, and I have one remaining: livecodeworld.com I'd taken out the domain with the vision of using it to replace livecodejournal.com, but for SEO reasons I've decided to build out going forward on that older domain instead. If there are no takers here I'll see if someone outside the LC community wants it. "Live coding" and "#livecode" are popular terms for the practice of coding live for a streaming audience. But like the other domain I'd sold a few weeks ago, I wanted to make this available to the LC community first. If interested the domain is listed at AfterNIC.com, and I'd be happy to discuss favorable pricing if you have a community-oriented use in mind. We did the last domain sale with a trusted community member, so we were able to streamline quick transfer. I would do the same with just about any member of this list. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems From harrison at all-auctions.com Wed Sep 20 12:09:29 2023 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2023 12:09:29 -0400 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: <5186c1aa-d7ab-79c0-d3ce-67bf5b7b2116@fourthworld.com> References: <5186c1aa-d7ab-79c0-d3ce-67bf5b7b2116@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Hi Richard, Thanks for the additional information. If I host it myself do I pay anything, or it is free? Thanks, Rick > On Sep 20, 2023, at 11:38 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > If you want the core team to also host and support it, yes, you can hire them to do that for a monthly fee. And for less than the cost of an hour's billable time, having their team handle everything can be a good value. > > The project is open source, so you can also host it yourself: > > https://github.com/discourse/discourse/blob/main/docs/INSTALL-cloud.md From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Sep 20 14:40:54 2023 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2023 11:40:54 -0700 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <57cbe1ea-ff4f-01c8-b223-08798ce35f2e@fourthworld.com> Rick Harrison wrote: > On Sep 20, 2023, at 11:38 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> >> The project is open source, so you can also host it yourself: >> >> https://github.com/discourse/discourse/blob/main/docs/INSTALL-cloud.md > > > Thanks for the additional information. > > If I host it myself do I pay anything, or it is free? It's free as in both freedom and beer. From the COPYRIGHT.md file in the archive I linked to above: This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or (at your option) any later version. That said, I'm sure they don't mind contributions to the project, in code or cash. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org Wed Sep 20 14:52:54 2023 From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (William Prothero) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2023 11:52:54 -0700 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: <5186c1aa-d7ab-79c0-d3ce-67bf5b7b2116@fourthworld.com> References: <5186c1aa-d7ab-79c0-d3ce-67bf5b7b2116@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <9C0367DF-5847-4A74-B9A4-B8FDEE714323@earthlearningsolutions.org> Richard, Thanks so much for the link to the installation instructions for discourse. I've been thinking about installing a forum. If I do the installation myself, will there be a cost, other than the domain name? Best, Bill William A. Prothero, PhD Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science University of California, Santa Barbara > On Sep 20, 2023, at 8:40 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > Rick Harrison wrote: > > > On Sep 18, 2023, at 1:57 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> > >> Use Discourse. There are others, but Discourse is currently the > >> go-to choice for new forums. Great UX, open source. > > > > Discourse is $50 per month! No free option for that. > > If you want the core team to also host and support it, yes, you can hire them to do that for a monthly fee. And for less than the cost of an hour's billable time, having their team handle everything can be a good value. > > The project is open source, so you can also host it yourself: > > https://github.com/discourse/discourse/blob/main/docs/INSTALL-cloud.md > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From harrison at all-auctions.com Thu Sep 21 09:32:56 2023 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2023 09:32:56 -0400 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: <57cbe1ea-ff4f-01c8-b223-08798ce35f2e@fourthworld.com> References: <57cbe1ea-ff4f-01c8-b223-08798ce35f2e@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Hi Richard, Thanks for the clarification on this. Rick > On Sep 20, 2023, at 2:40 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > It's free as in both freedom and beer. > > From the COPYRIGHT.md file in the archive I linked to above: > > This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or > modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License > as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version > 2 of the License, or (at your option) any later version. > > > That said, I'm sure they don't mind contributions to the project, in code or cash. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Sep 21 11:09:13 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2023 15:09:13 +0000 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: References: <57cbe1ea-ff4f-01c8-b223-08798ce35f2e@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <013BD2B1-A3D3-4703-9D07-6C40274A7C79@iotecdigital.com> Erm… neither of those are free. :-) Bob S It's free as in both freedom and beer. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Sep 21 16:59:40 2023 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2023 20:59:40 +0000 Subject: Forum Software LC? Message-ID: <20230921205940.Horde.swKB5tu4gXLc9nlFtUFJlp8@hub.4wsys.com> Bob Sneidar wrote: > Erm neither of those are free. :-)   Please explain.   https://github.com/discourse/discourse/blob/main/docs/INSTALL-cloud.md https://discord.com/blog/starting-your-first-discord-server   -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems   From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Sep 21 18:02:58 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2023 22:02:58 +0000 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: <20230921205940.Horde.swKB5tu4gXLc9nlFtUFJlp8@hub.4wsys.com> References: <20230921205940.Horde.swKB5tu4gXLc9nlFtUFJlp8@hub.4wsys.com> Message-ID: <2DC7CE02-C183-487D-8EEB-6220CB98B507@iotecdigital.com> Well, if I go to my bartender and ask for a free beer, I might get one, but then the bartender or the owner has to pay for it. As for freedom, everyone I think knows that our freedoms are purchased at a precious price. Bob S On Sep 21, 2023, at 1:59 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: Bob Sneidar wrote: Erm… neither of those are free. :-) Please explain. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Sep 21 18:34:59 2023 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2023 22:34:59 +0000 Subject: Forum Software LC? Message-ID: <20230921223459.Horde.RRdKlo8Kin-v6rz9PGO5WV2@hub.4wsys.com> Bob Sneidar wrote: > Richard Gaskin wrote: >> >> Bob Sneidar wrote: >>> Erm neither of those are free. :-) >> >> Please explain. >> https://github.com/discourse/discourse/blob/main/docs/INSTALL-cloud.md >> https://discord.com/blog/starting-your-first-discord-server > > > Well, if I go to my bartender and ask for a free beer, I might get one, > but then the bartender or the owner has to pay for it.   True. These systems are popular enough that there's enough who choose to pay for optional premium services so the rest remains free of cost for everyone else. > As for freedom, everyone I think knows that our freedoms are purchased > at a precious price.   Also true.  After thousands of years of intellectual property theft, the Berne Convention of 1886 finally created a global framework establishing that the author of an original creative work has sole authority over its distribution.   A hundred years later the Free Software Foundation and others used the foundation established by the Berne Convention to create standardized licensing guaranteeing the freedom to read, modify, and redistribute software for any package using those licenses. These freedoms fostered such proliferation that today most of the world's software infrastructure is powered by open source.   --   Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems   From david.bovill at gmail.com Fri Sep 22 08:10:01 2023 From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2023 13:10:01 +0100 Subject: Your scripts as a flowchart In-Reply-To: <8D1EE25E-8334-44C2-B451-F17F281AFC52@gmail.com> References: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> <18a9f0eaa08.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <023C9AEA-7B3A-455E-B6DC-18164BBF04B5@gmail.com> <8D1EE25E-8334-44C2-B451-F17F281AFC52@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Andreas, quick note - I've not read the full thread - but I have a code graph browser that I have been using for a number of years - it is a big piece of work - so not easy to distribute - and many of the parts should probably be done better / differently. I would Love to make use / integrate that work - rather than see it all stay on my laptop - but either way I'd like to get involved. This is what I have / the current approach: - Script Indexing project - libraries to recursively crawl an object or a stacks script to find handlers, and calls from each type of handler - Experimental caching and database based versions to speed up graph analysis and reporting (currently dropped) - Integration with IDE / Script Editor (using behaviors attached to "Apply" button etc - Projects arranged more or less as Levure projects - SVG graph export with interactive browsing of handlers (using graphviz) - Native graph export creating native Livecode layouts of shapes from Graphviz or Mermai d(experimental) - Filtering, and processing of graphs (experimental) What I'd like to do is: 1. Finish integration with Levure 2. Focus on Mermaid implementation 3. Test and improve the code parsing and graph creation to ensure it works properly with different coding styles Happy to demo / jump on a Zoom call and share ideas / discuss. On Mon, 18 Sept 2023 at 13:11, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Getting a full export is a tricky business, and I’m looking at various > solutions. > > The easiest workaround is to launch the flowchart in a web browser and > print to PDF from there. > On Windows/Linux the flowchart is shown that way anyway, and on Mac you > load it in a web browser by shift-clicking the Create flowchart button. The > obvious downside of printing to pdf is that you get page breaks that split > up the flowchart. > > Another workaround is to paste the Mermaid code into an online editor like > https://mermaid.live and then export to PNG from there. > > What looks more promising for actually solving it in-stack though, is > using the command-line interface (CLI) for Mermaid to generate an > svg/png/pdf file: > https://github.com/mermaid-js/mermaid-cli > > I’ll experiment with that and see what I can come up with. :) > > > As an aside, I don't know whether to be proud or horrified at the map > > Navigator produces… > > Yeah, I know the feeling… :D > > /Andreas > > > > 18 sep. 2023 kl. 03:38 skrev Geoff Canyon via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: > > > > Is there a way to export the entire flowchart, instead of just the > portion > > currently displayed? > > > > As an aside, I don't know whether to be proud or horrified at the map > > Navigator produces... > > > > On Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 8:04 PM Geoff Canyon wrote: > > > >> Ah, okay, that explains it. In Navigator, *everything* is a script-only > >> stack behavior. In a few of the substacks there are scripts for a few > >> template objects or where script-only-stack behaviors were inconvenient > (I > >> don't remember why, honestly). > >> > >> That has it working, and the resulting diagram is nice. Navigator does a > >> similar survey (without the visualization, that's a neat trick). > >> > >> Navigator reports: > >> > >> 302986 characters in > >> 8092 lines in > >> 112 scripts in > >> 885 objects. > >> > >> ScriptDependencies reports: > >> > >> 341 unique handler names - 407 commands, 124 functions, 1 setProps > >> > >> regards, > >> > >> Geoff > >> > >> On Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 6:24 PM Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode < > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> > >>> As long as you include all the script-only stacks in the analysis, they > >>> will be handled. > >>> The tool will not look for behaviors and auto-include them. Every stack > >>> that has relevant code must be included manually in the project pane. > If > >>> you have many SoSs, you can quickly add them all by adding the whole > folder > >>> they are in. > >>> > >>> How many handlers does the analysis find? > >>> > >>> /Andreas > >>> > >>> > >>>> 16 sep. 2023 kl. 22:43 skrev Geoff Canyon via use-livecode < > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: > >>>> > >>>> I didn't change anything before generating, and the flow chart is > >>> literally > >>>> blank -- unless it: > >>>> > >>>> 1. scrolls invisibly > >>>> 2. keeps returning the project name to the upper left while scrolling > >>>> 3. has *at least* 30 screens' worth of blank space at the top? > >>>> > >>>> On Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 1:35 PM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < > >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> That happened to me too with a very long script. To keep everything > in > >>>>> view > >>>>> there's a lot of white space. Keep scrolling. This happens only if > you > >>>>> have > >>>>> set it to use unlimited sizing. > >>>>> -- > >>>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > >>>>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > >>>>> On September 16, 2023 11:15:00 AM Geoff Canyon via use-livecode > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> Does it not handle script-only stack behaviors? I get a blank > display > >>> for > >>>>>> Navigator (which has no code other than SoS behaviors). > >>>>>> > >>>>>> gc > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> use-livecode mailing list > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>> subscription preferences: > >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dochawk at gmail.com Fri Sep 22 20:07:43 2023 From: dochawk at gmail.com (doc hawk) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2023 17:07:43 -0700 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: <2DC7CE02-C183-487D-8EEB-6220CB98B507@iotecdigital.com> References: <20230921205940.Horde.swKB5tu4gXLc9nlFtUFJlp8@hub.4wsys.com> <2DC7CE02-C183-487D-8EEB-6220CB98B507@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Bob blipped, Well, if I go to my bartender and ask for a free beer, I might get one, When I bought my last bicycle helmet (they’re single use, and the old one had a massive dent at the hairline. I’d never been to a trauma unit before . . .), there was a little sign on the counter that read, “ring bell for beer.” Amused, I rang the bell. And the salesman turned around, pulled a beer from a small refrigerator, and handed it to me! with that, I'll grab some popcorn and enjoy the license wars . . . From danoldboy at gmail.com Sat Sep 23 01:44:10 2023 From: danoldboy at gmail.com (Dan Brown) Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2023 06:44:10 +0100 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: <20230921223459.Horde.RRdKlo8Kin-v6rz9PGO5WV2@hub.4wsys.com> References: <20230921223459.Horde.RRdKlo8Kin-v6rz9PGO5WV2@hub.4wsys.com> Message-ID: A lot of corporations are indeed making a ton of money off the back of free labour and free software. Thanks Stallman On Thu, 21 Sept 2023, 23:36 Richard Gaskin via use-livecode, < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Bob Sneidar wrote: > > Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> > >> Bob Sneidar wrote: > >>> Erm… neither of those are free. :-) > >> > >> Please explain. > >> https://github.com/discourse/discourse/blob/main/docs/INSTALL-cloud.md > >> https://discord.com/blog/starting-your-first-discord-server > > > > > > Well, if I go to my bartender and ask for a free beer, I might get one, > > but then the bartender or the owner has to pay for it. > > True. These systems are popular enough that there's enough who choose to > pay for optional premium services so the rest remains free of cost for > everyone else. > > > As for freedom, everyone I think knows that our freedoms are purchased > > at a precious price. > > Also true. After thousands of years of intellectual property theft, the > Berne Convention of 1886 finally created a global framework establishing > that the author of an original creative work has sole authority over its > distribution. > > A hundred years later the Free Software Foundation and others used the > foundation established by the Berne Convention to create standardized > licensing guaranteeing the freedom to read, modify, and redistribute > software for any package using those licenses. These freedoms fostered such > proliferation that today most of the world's software infrastructure is > powered by open source. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org Sat Sep 23 10:30:30 2023 From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (William Prothero) Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2023 07:30:30 -0700 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Discord looks really interesting. I'm thinking of trying it out. One thing I wonder about is user privacy. I know there are private channels, but does the entity supporting discord have access to user data, emails, names, etc? That will be the first question I'm asked. Best, Bill William A. Prothero, PhD Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science University of California, Santa Barbara > On Sep 22, 2023, at 10:46 PM, Dan Brown via use-livecode wrote: > > A lot of corporations are indeed making a ton of money off the back of free > labour and free software. Thanks Stallman > >> On Thu, 21 Sept 2023, 23:36 Richard Gaskin via use-livecode, < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >> Bob Sneidar wrote: >>> Richard Gaskin wrote: >>>> >>>> Bob Sneidar wrote: >>>>> Erm… neither of those are free. :-) >>>> >>>> Please explain. >>>> https://github.com/discourse/discourse/blob/main/docs/INSTALL-cloud.md >>>> https://discord.com/blog/starting-your-first-discord-server >>> >>> >>> Well, if I go to my bartender and ask for a free beer, I might get one, >>> but then the bartender or the owner has to pay for it. >> >> True. These systems are popular enough that there's enough who choose to >> pay for optional premium services so the rest remains free of cost for >> everyone else. >> >>> As for freedom, everyone I think knows that our freedoms are purchased >>> at a precious price. >> >> Also true. After thousands of years of intellectual property theft, the >> Berne Convention of 1886 finally created a global framework establishing >> that the author of an original creative work has sole authority over its >> distribution. >> >> A hundred years later the Free Software Foundation and others used the >> foundation established by the Berne Convention to create standardized >> licensing guaranteeing the freedom to read, modify, and redistribute >> software for any package using those licenses. These freedoms fostered such >> proliferation that today most of the world's software infrastructure is >> powered by open source. >> >> -- >> Richard Gaskin >> Fourth World Systems >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From htorrado at networkdreams.net Sat Sep 23 11:00:51 2023 From: htorrado at networkdreams.net (Heriberto Torrado) Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2023 11:00:51 -0400 Subject: Livecode and ESP32 microcontroler Message-ID: <26c0c674-82ad-3c93-0e77-a9823d122add@networkdreams.net> Dear Livecode lovers, It's been a while since I've had the opportunity to contribute to our discussion group, and I'm excited to share a new project I've been working on with Livecode Server. In this project, I've been utilizing Livecode to establish communication with the serial port of a PC, leveraging Livecode Server to interface with an ESP32 microcontroller. What I've discovered is that Livecode truly shines as a scripting language in this context. It offers exceptional productivity advantages compared to languages like Python, particularly when it comes to text manipulation tasks. I wanted to take a moment to reach out and let you know that if you have any interest in microcontroller programming with Livecode or if you'd like to learn more about my project, please feel free to get in touch with me. I'd be more than happy to share insights, experiences, and collaborate on this exciting endeavor! Best, Hery Heriberto Torrado Chief Technology Officer (CTO) Director de informtica Directeur informatique *NetDreams S.C.* http://www.networkdreams.net From harrison at all-auctions.com Sat Sep 23 17:54:07 2023 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com) Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2023 17:54:07 -0400 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <26AE53FC-11F8-4089-9875-D488BC8CC706@all-auctions.com> Hi Bill, If you are running your own server on your computer, I don’t believe they would have access to that at all. They claim it’s both safe and that they are transparent on how it all works. It is open-source software so you should be able to see for yourself. Rick > On Sep 23, 2023, at 10:30 AM, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote: > > Discord looks really interesting. I'm thinking of trying it out. One thing I wonder about is > user privacy. I know there are private channels, but does the entity supporting discord have access to user data, emails, names, etc? > > That will be the first question I'm asked. > Best, > Bill > > William A. Prothero, PhD > Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science > University of California, Santa Barbara > From dougr at telus.net Sun Sep 24 11:38:03 2023 From: dougr at telus.net (Douglas A. Ruisaard) Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2023 08:38:03 -0700 Subject: Livecode and ESP32 microcontroler In-Reply-To: <26c0c674-82ad-3c93-0e77-a9823d122add@networkdreams.net> References: <26c0c674-82ad-3c93-0e77-a9823d122add@networkdreams.net> Message-ID: <03b001d9eefd$1b3190b0$5194b210$@telus.net> Hery: I am a livecode list "lurker" ... I read every posting but rarely respond. I do most of my mini project development in the ESP environment but primarily use the Arduino development platforms. I am abouit to embark on getting involved with the Raspberry Pi platform which probably means learning Python (old dog, new tricks, etc). I have developedd extensively in Livecode, though and still consider it my "go-to" environment when possible. If there were a way to integrate Livecode with the ESP platforms, I'd be ALL IN. I think others on this list will feel the same, so please share your preferences on how to exchange ideas. Doug Ruisaard Trilogy Software -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode On Behalf Of Heriberto Torrado via use-livecode Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2023 8:01 AM To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Cc: Heriberto Torrado Subject: Livecode and ESP32 microcontroler Dear Livecode lovers, It's been a while since I've had the opportunity to contribute to our discussion group, and I'm excited to share a new project I've been working on with Livecode Server. In this project, I've been utilizing Livecode to establish communication with the serial port of a PC, leveraging Livecode Server to interface with an ESP32 microcontroller. What I've discovered is that Livecode truly shines as a scripting language in this context. It offers exceptional productivity advantages compared to languages like Python, particularly when it comes to text manipulation tasks. I wanted to take a moment to reach out and let you know that if you have any interest in microcontroller programming with Livecode or if you'd like to learn more about my project, please feel free to get in touch with me. I'd be more than happy to share insights, experiences, and collaborate on this exciting endeavor! Best, Hery Heriberto Torrado ​Chief Technology Officer (CTO) ​Director de informática Directeur informatique *NetDreams S.C.* http://www.networkdreams.net _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dochawk at gmail.com Sun Sep 24 15:25:28 2023 From: dochawk at gmail.com (doc hawk) Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2023 12:25:28 -0700 Subject: Livecode and ESP32 microcontroler In-Reply-To: <03b001d9eefd$1b3190b0$5194b210$@telus.net> References: <26c0c674-82ad-3c93-0e77-a9823d122add@networkdreams.net> <03b001d9eefd$1b3190b0$5194b210$@telus.net> Message-ID: Forty years ago, HyperCard and Supercars ran on 8 MHz, 16 bit, 68000s. (OK, it was a 16/32 design, but still). However, it was *not* snappy by any means. I suspect that you’d need a rather stripped down version of LiveCode on a microcontroller, both to get adequate performance and to cut power. But I’d definitely be interested. My next round of tinkering will probably be with a device like that, as the wifi or ble controller I attach to arduinos seem to have more than an arduino’s worth of processing power left. From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Sun Sep 24 18:10:59 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2023 22:10:59 +0000 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: References: <20230921205940.Horde.swKB5tu4gXLc9nlFtUFJlp8@hub.4wsys.com> <2DC7CE02-C183-487D-8EEB-6220CB98B507@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: The Russians had a great saying: There’s no such thing as a free lunch. Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 22, 2023, at 17:09, doc hawk via use-livecode wrote: > > Bob blipped, > > Well, if I go to my bartender and ask for a free beer, I might get one, > > > When I bought my last bicycle helmet (they’re single use, and the old one > had a massive dent at the hairline. I’d never been to a trauma unit before > . . .), there was a little sign on the counter that read, “ring bell for > beer.” Amused, I rang the bell. > > And the salesman turned around, pulled a beer from a small refrigerator, > and handed it to me! > > with that, I'll grab some popcorn and enjoy the license wars . . . > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun Sep 24 19:03:26 2023 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2023 18:03:26 -0500 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: References: <20230921205940.Horde.swKB5tu4gXLc9nlFtUFJlp8@hub.4wsys.com> <2DC7CE02-C183-487D-8EEB-6220CB98B507@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <18ac96ef230.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> The Russians also have another: Q: What is the difference between capitalism and communism? A: Capitalism is one man exploiting another. Communism is exactly the opposite. :) -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On September 24, 2023 5:13:10 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > The Russians had a great saying: Theres no such thing as a free lunch. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Sep 22, 2023, at 17:09, doc hawk via use-livecode >> wrote: >> >> Bob blipped, >> >> Well, if I go to my bartender and ask for a free beer, I might get one, >> >> >> When I bought my last bicycle helmet (theyre single use, and the old one >> had a massive dent at the hairline. Id never been to a trauma unit before >> . . .), there was a little sign on the counter that read, ring bell for >> beer. Amused, I rang the bell. >> >> And the salesman turned around, pulled a beer from a small refrigerator, >> and handed it to me! >> >> with that, I'll grab some popcorn and enjoy the license wars . . . >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon Sep 25 11:13:35 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 15:13:35 +0000 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: <18ac96ef230.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <20230921205940.Horde.swKB5tu4gXLc9nlFtUFJlp8@hub.4wsys.com> <2DC7CE02-C183-487D-8EEB-6220CB98B507@iotecdigital.com> <18ac96ef230.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Hah hah. Yes, but with Capitalism, we get to vote for our exploiters. :-) Bob S > On Sep 24, 2023, at 4:03 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > > The Russians also have another: > > Q: What is the difference between capitalism and communism? > A: Capitalism is one man exploiting another. Communism is exactly the opposite. > > :) > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon Sep 25 12:14:04 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 16:14:04 +0000 Subject: Go forward is not working Message-ID: Hi all. Can anyone else verify that Go Forward in widget is working? Somewhere along the way it stopped for me. I even enter it in the message box and nothing happens. hiliteChanged is not triggered, and neither is tabChanged. Bob S From dougr at telus.net Mon Sep 25 13:29:18 2023 From: dougr at telus.net (Douglas A. Ruisaard) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 10:29:18 -0700 Subject: Livecode and ESP32 microcontroler In-Reply-To: References: <26c0c674-82ad-3c93-0e77-a9823d122add@networkdreams.net> <03b001d9eefd$1b3190b0$5194b210$@telus.net> Message-ID: <1d5a01d9efd5$d07a0370$716e0a50$@telus.net> I was thinking more along the lines of a LiveCode to Arduino / Python compiler. To be able to write in LiveCode and then upload it to an ESP would be a tream comne true! Doug -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode On Behalf Of doc hawk via use-livecode Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2023 12:25 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: doc hawk Subject: Re: Livecode and ESP32 microcontroler Forty years ago, HyperCard and Supercars ran on 8 MHz, 16 bit, 68000s. (OK, it was a 16/32 design, but still). However, it was *not* snappy by any means. I suspect that you’d need a rather stripped down version of LiveCode on a microcontroller, both to get adequate performance and to cut power. But I’d definitely be interested. My next round of tinkering will probably be with a device like that, as the wifi or ble controller I attach to arduinos seem to have more than an arduino’s worth of processing power left. _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Mon Sep 25 15:48:51 2023 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 15:48:51 -0400 Subject: Livecode and ESP32 microcontroler In-Reply-To: <03b001d9eefd$1b3190b0$5194b210$@telus.net> References: <26c0c674-82ad-3c93-0e77-a9823d122add@networkdreams.net> <03b001d9eefd$1b3190b0$5194b210$@telus.net> Message-ID: <005b01d9efe9$51fcf110$f5f6d330$@net> I'm working on an Arduino/esp32/rtc/lcd display project to control my pool solar heating array to open/close valves, turn the solar array or pool filter pump off/on based on solar availability and min filter hours needed using electric actuated valves, pump relays and temperature sensors. I connected an esp32 com port to the Arduino com port. The esp32 is a socket server and talk to the remote pumps/sensors... having their own Arduino and esp32s to be told when to turn on/off, open/close valves and get senor info. I have used AT commands(it's funny that AT the command format still exists) to test the esp32 and have the whole Arduino thing under control(never thought I'd have to learn C). It's time to connect them together. I know I could do a lot of this on the esp32 itself but all the sensors, relays, display, RTC, SD Card and large program might be too much to the esp32. I want to be able to see the status and set parameters in the Arduino via the esp32 using a LiveCode desktop/mobile gui app talking to the socket server. The Arduino on boot inits the esp32, put it into socket server mode. Waits for all clients(2-4 below) to connect then the Arduino fields/responds to all the clients. Starts events in progress. Clients are: 1) LC socket client app to see status/set params/ turn things on/off outside of scheduled events 2) Main Pool filter pump. 3) Solar array pump. 4) Water valves. The last 3 are in different locations using Arduinos and esp32 socket clients via wifi. The display on the master socket server shows temperatures(in/out solar and pool) I will forward a port on my router to access the socket server when not on the local LAN. Encrypted of course. I'm, trying to get the most solar heat to the pool with sufficient water filtering with minimum electric usage. I'm tired of doing all of this manually and also my electric cost has doubled in the last 2+ years and I'm trying to claw some of it back with this project. I guessing that the handling of network interruption events will be a challenge. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Douglas A. Ruisaard via use-livecode Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2023 11:38 AM To: 'How to use LiveCode' Cc: Douglas A. Ruisaard Subject: RE: Livecode and ESP32 microcontroler Hery: I am a livecode list "lurker" ... I read every posting but rarely respond. I do most of my mini project development in the ESP environment but primarily use the Arduino development platforms. I am abouit to embark on getting involved with the Raspberry Pi platform which probably means learning Python (old dog, new tricks, etc). I have developedd extensively in Livecode, though and still consider it my "go-to" environment when possible. If there were a way to integrate Livecode with the ESP platforms, I'd be ALL IN. I think others on this list will feel the same, so please share your preferences on how to exchange ideas. Doug Ruisaard Trilogy Software -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode On Behalf Of Heriberto Torrado via use-livecode Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2023 8:01 AM To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Cc: Heriberto Torrado Subject: Livecode and ESP32 microcontroler Dear Livecode lovers, It's been a while since I've had the opportunity to contribute to our discussion group, and I'm excited to share a new project I've been working on with Livecode Server. In this project, I've been utilizing Livecode to establish communication with the serial port of a PC, leveraging Livecode Server to interface with an ESP32 microcontroller. What I've discovered is that Livecode truly shines as a scripting language in this context. It offers exceptional productivity advantages compared to languages like Python, particularly when it comes to text manipulation tasks. I wanted to take a moment to reach out and let you know that if you have any interest in microcontroller programming with Livecode or if you'd like to learn more about my project, please feel free to get in touch with me. I'd be more than happy to share insights, experiences, and collaborate on this exciting endeavor! Best, Hery Heriberto Torrado ​Chief Technology Officer (CTO) ​Director de informática Directeur informatique *NetDreams S.C.* http://www.networkdreams.net _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dochawk at gmail.com Mon Sep 25 19:26:16 2023 From: dochawk at gmail.com (doc hawk) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 16:26:16 -0700 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: References: <20230921205940.Horde.swKB5tu4gXLc9nlFtUFJlp8@hub.4wsys.com> <2DC7CE02-C183-487D-8EEB-6220CB98B507@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: bob belabored, The Russians had a great saying: There’s no such thing as a free lunch. True. But there *is* a lunch that someone else pays for . . . From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Sep 26 11:03:47 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2023 15:03:47 +0000 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: References: <20230921205940.Horde.swKB5tu4gXLc9nlFtUFJlp8@hub.4wsys.com> <2DC7CE02-C183-487D-8EEB-6220CB98B507@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: No “but” there. That was precisely my point. :-) Bob S On Sep 25, 2023, at 4:26 PM, doc hawk via use-livecode wrote: bob belabored, The Russians had a great saying: There’s no such thing as a free lunch. True. But there *is* a lunch that someone else pays for . . . From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue Sep 26 13:43:48 2023 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2023 12:43:48 -0500 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: References: <20230921205940.Horde.swKB5tu4gXLc9nlFtUFJlp8@hub.4wsys.com> <2DC7CE02-C183-487D-8EEB-6220CB98B507@iotecdigital.com> <18ac96ef230.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <18ad2970820.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> One more and then I will stop hijacking this thread. BTW these are jokes told in Russia by Russians. "In Russia we have freedom of speech. In America they have freedom *after* speech." -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On September 25, 2023 10:15:50 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > Hah hah. Yes, but with Capitalism, we get to vote for our exploiters. :-) > > Bob S > > >> On Sep 24, 2023, at 4:03 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode >> wrote: >> >> The Russians also have another: >> >> Q: What is the difference between capitalism and communism? >> A: Capitalism is one man exploiting another. Communism is exactly the opposite. >> >> :) >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Wed Sep 27 10:49:25 2023 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2023 10:49:25 -0400 Subject: Livecode 10dp6 and web fonts Message-ID: <31e0834e-343a-5294-7edf-2db21a993001@researchware.com> I get the value of web font support in LC10dp6 for WEB based applications. However, if you making a multi-platform application, you still have the issue of UI consistency across platforms as web fonts can't be used in desktop standalones (or, I assume, phone standalones) So this is sort of an informal poll among Livecoders who MAKE multi-platform apps (defined as 2 or more platforms of (macOS, Windows, Linux, iOS, Android, Web) (A) Do you try to make your interfaces across platforms the SAME (as much as possible)? OR (B) Do you TAILOR each interface for the specific platform (as much as possible)? And optionally, an opened ended question: Does your answer depend of what platforms you are deploying for? From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Sep 27 11:12:18 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2023 15:12:18 +0000 Subject: Livecode 10dp6 and web fonts In-Reply-To: <31e0834e-343a-5294-7edf-2db21a993001@researchware.com> References: <31e0834e-343a-5294-7edf-2db21a993001@researchware.com> Message-ID: A. I develop an app for WIN and MAC. I do want them to look the same on both, so much so that I created my own tab object which uses the tab widget but also transparent buttons in front of each tab because I want drag drop functionality in the tabs, and widgets do not listen for those messages. I also have a set of fonts I use so that I can maintain some kind of consistency between platforms, although in the process I discovered like many others that the same font renders differently across platforms. That sucks royally, but I understand it’s not something Livecode can do anything about without kludging. Bob S > On Sep 27, 2023, at 7:49 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > > I get the value of web font support in LC10dp6 for WEB based applications. > > However, if you making a multi-platform application, you still have the issue of UI consistency across platforms as web fonts can't be used in desktop standalones (or, I assume, phone standalones) > > So this is sort of an informal poll among Livecoders who MAKE multi-platform apps (defined as 2 or more platforms of (macOS, Windows, Linux, iOS, Android, Web) > > (A) Do you try to make your interfaces across platforms the SAME (as much as possible)? > > OR > > (B) Do you TAILOR each interface for the specific platform (as much as possible)? > > And optionally, an opened ended question: Does your answer depend of what platforms you are deploying for? > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Sep 27 11:27:02 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2023 15:27:02 +0000 Subject: PDF Widget No Filled Forms Message-ID: <188A03AF-B0F5-4E69-91D8-B3426AFB5615@iotecdigital.com> Hi all. I have filled forms, and I am just now wanting to display those FILLED forms in a PDF widget. Only problem is, the form data is not being displayed. Is that the current state of affairs? If so, then boo! Bob S From derek-lc-list at speedbump.io Wed Sep 27 12:28:19 2023 From: derek-lc-list at speedbump.io (Derek Bump) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2023 11:28:19 -0500 Subject: Livecode 10dp6 and web fonts In-Reply-To: <31e0834e-343a-5294-7edf-2db21a993001@researchware.com> References: <31e0834e-343a-5294-7edf-2db21a993001@researchware.com> Message-ID: Hi Paul, In the past, I aimed to align my application UI closely with the host OS, believing that a consistent UI ensures broad accessibility. However, over time, I've come to see that while UI continuity is beneficial, it isn't the ultimate solution. This realization hit home when I managed a team for a large enterprise client. We had programs that mimicked the host OS UI while others sported a completely unique UI. To my surprise, the consistency of the UI mattered little to my teammost only used technology to fulfill their core tasks. The outdated screen snapshots and hand-annotations in the department's process documentation underscored this point. The design nuances, like font choices, weren't as problematic as a complete UI overhaul. An entire UI revamp meant new documentation and snapshots, consuming a significant chunk of my time and increasing my managerial stress. While one could argue these issues stem from a lack of training or poor work environment, the reality is such teams exist, and they will be your users and sources of feedback. Now, my focus is on ensuring the UI fits the program's purpose rather than matching the host OS. Continuity matters, but it isn't paramount. I tread cautiously with UI changes, avoiding unnecessary complexity. Gathering feedback early and consistently is key. If considering major UI shifts, I seek feedback upfront. Considering the topic, I highly recommend Bret Victor's "Inventing on Principle" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUv66718DII) I believe LiveCode resonates with Bret's ideas, and I've been integrating his concepts into my work. Well worth the engaging 54 minute presentation. Hope this provides some insight, Derek Bump On 9/27/23 09:49, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > (A) Do you try to make your interfaces across platforms the SAME (as > much as possible)? > > OR > > (B) Do you TAILOR each interface for the specific platform (as much as > possible)? > > And optionally, an opened ended question: Does your answer depend of > what platforms you are deploying for? From monte.goulding at livecode.com Wed Sep 27 19:51:08 2023 From: monte.goulding at livecode.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 09:51:08 +1000 Subject: PDF Widget No Filled Forms In-Reply-To: <188A03AF-B0F5-4E69-91D8-B3426AFB5615@iotecdigital.com> References: <188A03AF-B0F5-4E69-91D8-B3426AFB5615@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Hi Bob Try setting the `drawAnnotations` to true and see if the form data renders Cheers Monte > On 28 Sep 2023, at 1:27 am, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi all. > > I have filled forms, and I am just now wanting to display those FILLED forms in a PDF widget. Only problem is, the form data is not being displayed. Is that the current state of affairs? If so, then boo! > > Bob S > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Sep 27 19:58:12 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2023 23:58:12 +0000 Subject: PDF Widget No Filled Forms In-Reply-To: References: <188A03AF-B0F5-4E69-91D8-B3426AFB5615@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <09B2CF2D-38D7-4FEE-93FC-288B7D9846D1@iotecdigital.com> Nope. Not only that, but the autoHilite (Select Text) is not working either. Bob S > On Sep 27, 2023, at 4:51 PM, Monte Goulding via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Bob > > Try setting the `drawAnnotations` to true and see if the form data renders > > Cheers > > Monte > >> On 28 Sep 2023, at 1:27 am, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Hi all. >> >> I have filled forms, and I am just now wanting to display those FILLED forms in a PDF widget. Only problem is, the form data is not being displayed. Is that the current state of affairs? If so, then boo! >> >> Bob S >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From monte.goulding at livecode.com Wed Sep 27 21:35:56 2023 From: monte.goulding at livecode.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 11:35:56 +1000 Subject: PDF Widget No Filled Forms In-Reply-To: <09B2CF2D-38D7-4FEE-93FC-288B7D9846D1@iotecdigital.com> References: <188A03AF-B0F5-4E69-91D8-B3426AFB5615@iotecdigital.com> <09B2CF2D-38D7-4FEE-93FC-288B7D9846D1@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Hi Bob Hmm… OK, it could be a bit of a project to get your forms rendering then. If it’s something you need soon and you have a budget then contact support at livecode.com . Otherwise you can create a bug report and attach the PDF. FYI there is no support for form interactivity at the moment so the select text is on the PDF text rather than the form fields. Cheers Monte > On 28 Sep 2023, at 9:58 am, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > Nope. Not only that, but the autoHilite (Select Text) is not working either. From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Thu Sep 28 07:09:52 2023 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 13:09:52 +0200 Subject: PDF Widget No Filled Forms In-Reply-To: <188A03AF-B0F5-4E69-91D8-B3426AFB5615@iotecdigital.com> References: <188A03AF-B0F5-4E69-91D8-B3426AFB5615@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Bob, as a workaround you could create a temporary pdf file that is then displayed in the pdf widget. You'll need the free tool PDFTK server with its fill-form option for this. PDFTK server runs on macOS, Windows and some Linux versions. PDFTK server is free https://www.pdflabs.com If you need it for iOS or Android you could use a web server to which you post the .fdf or xfdf data and the web server then runs pdftk server, creates the pdf and returns it back to the device. Not as easy then just opening the .(x)fdf file, but at least a solution. ;) Regards, Matthias > Am 27.09.2023 um 17:27 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode : > > Hi all. > > I have filled forms, and I am just now wanting to display those FILLED forms in a PDF widget. Only problem is, the form data is not being displayed. Is that the current state of affairs? If so, then boo! > > Bob S > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Thu Sep 28 09:38:17 2023 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 15:38:17 +0200 Subject: PDF Widget No Filled Forms In-Reply-To: References: <188A03AF-B0F5-4E69-91D8-B3426AFB5615@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <8C0CC5ED-9DD5-49D1-A615-6F25DE4E24B3@m-r-d.de> What i forgot to mention. For macOS 10.11 and above please use the following link https://www.pdflabs.com/tools/pdftk-the-pdf-toolkit/pdftk_server-2.02-mac_osx-10.11-setup.pkg > Am 28.09.2023 um 13:09 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode : > > Bob, > > as a workaround you could create a temporary pdf file that is then displayed in the pdf widget. > You'll need the free tool PDFTK server with its fill-form option for this. PDFTK server runs on macOS, Windows and some Linux versions. > PDFTK server is free https://www.pdflabs.com > > If you need it for iOS or Android you could use a web server to which you post the .fdf or xfdf data and the web server then runs pdftk server, creates the pdf and returns it back to the device. > > Not as easy then just opening the .(x)fdf file, but at least a solution. ;) > > Regards, > Matthias > > > > >> Am 27.09.2023 um 17:27 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode : >> >> Hi all. >> >> I have filled forms, and I am just now wanting to display those FILLED forms in a PDF widget. Only problem is, the form data is not being displayed. Is that the current state of affairs? If so, then boo! >> >> Bob S >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Sep 28 11:14:54 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 15:14:54 +0000 Subject: PDF Widget No Filled Forms In-Reply-To: References: <188A03AF-B0F5-4E69-91D8-B3426AFB5615@iotecdigital.com> <09B2CF2D-38D7-4FEE-93FC-288B7D9846D1@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: No big rush. I can open the form in a web browser if necessary. My idea was to have a Native Document Viewer like the document management app we currently use, but I am not using my app for that yet. I just generate filled forms for service at the moment. I will create a bug report with a sample stack and form. I should note that this form is the kind where it can be filled using Adobe Reader. For some reason, Adobe has 2 kinds of forms. Bob S > On Sep 27, 2023, at 6:35 PM, Monte Goulding via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Bob > > Hmm… OK, it could be a bit of a project to get your forms rendering then. If it’s something you need soon and you have a budget then contact support at livecode.com . Otherwise you can create a bug report and attach the PDF. > > FYI there is no support for form interactivity at the moment so the select text is on the PDF text rather than the form fields. > > Cheers > > Monte > >> On 28 Sep 2023, at 9:58 am, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Nope. Not only that, but the autoHilite (Select Text) is not working either. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Sep 28 11:16:09 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 15:16:09 +0000 Subject: PDF Widget No Filled Forms In-Reply-To: <8C0CC5ED-9DD5-49D1-A615-6F25DE4E24B3@m-r-d.de> References: <188A03AF-B0F5-4E69-91D8-B3426AFB5615@iotecdigital.com> <8C0CC5ED-9DD5-49D1-A615-6F25DE4E24B3@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: Thanks Matthias I’ll look at that. Bob S > On Sep 28, 2023, at 6:38 AM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > > What i forgot to mention. For macOS 10.11 and above please use the following link > https://www.pdflabs.com/tools/pdftk-the-pdf-toolkit/pdftk_server-2.02-mac_osx-10.11-setup.pkg > > > >> Am 28.09.2023 um 13:09 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode : >> >> Bob, >> >> as a workaround you could create a temporary pdf file that is then displayed in the pdf widget. >> You'll need the free tool PDFTK server with its fill-form option for this. PDFTK server runs on macOS, Windows and some Linux versions. >> PDFTK server is free https://www.pdflabs.com >> >> If you need it for iOS or Android you could use a web server to which you post the .fdf or xfdf data and the web server then runs pdftk server, creates the pdf and returns it back to the device. >> >> Not as easy then just opening the .(x)fdf file, but at least a solution. ;) >> >> Regards, >> Matthias >> >> >> >> >>> Am 27.09.2023 um 17:27 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode : >>> >>> Hi all. >>> >>> I have filled forms, and I am just now wanting to display those FILLED forms in a PDF widget. Only problem is, the form data is not being displayed. Is that the current state of affairs? If so, then boo! >>> >>> Bob S >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From klaus at major-k.de Thu Sep 28 11:34:45 2023 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 17:34:45 +0200 Subject: Android Standalone buiulding error Message-ID: Hi friends, I created an Android runtime from this stack in April without any problem. Now I changes some minor cosmetic issues and got this error when "Save as standalone..." Only thing I can remember is that I added API 33 in Android Studio. macOS 12.7, LC 9.6.10. Android Studio 2021.3 ------------------------------------------------------------ There was an error while saving the standalone application Could not encode class bundle - error: Methods with invalid locals information void androidx.orint.Printre persprintUriAdapters I.onrosttxecutelandroid.araonics.Bitman) Information in locals-table is invalid with respect to the stack map table. Local refers to non-present stack map type for register: 2 with constraint OBJECT Info in /private/var/tolders/8v/k8b7ir8503db3h60tdt9pbw0000a/T/Temporarvltems/tmp.6277.nK1natOk/22/classes.iar:androidx/viewoaaer/widaet/PagerTitleStrip.class Methods with invalld locals intormation voidandroidx.viewpager.widget.PagerTitleStrip.updateTextPositions(int.float,boolean" Intormation in locals-table is invalid with respect to the stack map table. Local refers to non-present stack map type for register: 37 with constraint INT -------------------------------------------------------------- Any idea what is going wrong here? Thank you! Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From merakosp at gmail.com Thu Sep 28 13:40:49 2023 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 20:40:49 +0300 Subject: Android Standalone buiulding error In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Klaus, I am afk now, but there is a bug report about it. The workaround is to make sure you have installed only v31.0.0 of the android *build tools*. Anything above v31 will cause this error. Cheers, Panos On Thu, 28 Sept 2023, 18:35 Klaus major-k via use-livecode, < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi friends, > > I created an Android runtime from this stack in April without any problem. > Now I changes some minor cosmetic issues and got this error when "Save as > standalone..." > > Only thing I can remember is that I added API 33 in Android Studio. > > macOS 12.7, LC 9.6.10. Android Studio 2021.3 > ------------------------------------------------------------ > There was an error while saving the standalone application > Could not encode class bundle - error: > Methods with invalid locals information > void androidx.orint.Printre persprintUriAdapters > I.onrosttxecutelandroid.araonics.Bitman) > Information in locals-table is invalid with respect to the stack map > table. Local refers to non-present stack map type for register: 2 with > constraint OBJECT > Info in > > /private/var/tolders/8v/k8b7ir8503db3h60tdt9pbw0000a/T/Temporarvltems/tmp.6277.nK1natOk/22/classes.iar:androidx/viewoaaer/widaet/PagerTitleStrip.class > Methods with invalld locals intormation > > voidandroidx.viewpager.widget.PagerTitleStrip.updateTextPositions(int.float,boolean" > Intormation in locals-table is invalid with respect to the stack map > table. Local refers to non-present stack map type for register: 37 with > constraint INT > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Any idea what is going wrong here? > Thank you! > > > Best > > Klaus > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > https://www.major-k.de/bass > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From klaus at major-k.de Thu Sep 28 13:51:31 2023 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 19:51:31 +0200 Subject: Android Standalone buiulding error In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <04D3923B-1EFF-431A-B096-BBD9FD3225C7@major-k.de> Hi Panos, > Am 28.09.2023 um 19:40 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode : > > Hello Klaus, > > I am afk what does that stand for? 8-) > now, but there is a bug report about it. The workaround is to make > sure you have installed only v31.0.0 of the android *build tools*. Anything > above v31 will cause this error. But LC claimed this for version 9.6.10 (from the LC blog): ---------------------------------------------- LiveCode 9.6.10 Stable Released ... FEATURES ADDED: Android API 33 update The Android engine is now built using version 33 of the Android API, a requirement for new apps submitted to the Google Play Store. Note you’ll have to install “Android API 33” using the SDK Manager in Android Studio. --------------------------------------------- And I am using LC 9.6.10! I installed API 33 for this reason. What gives? :-( And we MUST use API 33 for new apps or updates of older app. Or did I misunderstand this Google requirement? > Cheers, > Panos > > On Thu, 28 Sept 2023, 18:35 Klaus major-k via use-livecode, < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Hi friends, >> >> I created an Android runtime from this stack in April without any problem. >> Now I changes some minor cosmetic issues and got this error when "Save as >> standalone..." >> >> Only thing I can remember is that I added API 33 in Android Studio. >> >> macOS 12.7, LC 9.6.10. Android Studio 2021.3 >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> There was an error while saving the standalone application >> Could not encode class bundle - error: >> Methods with invalid locals information >> void androidx.orint.Printre persprintUriAdapters >> I.onrosttxecutelandroid.araonics.Bitman) >> Information in locals-table is invalid with respect to the stack map >> table. Local refers to non-present stack map type for register: 2 with >> constraint OBJECT >> Info in >> >> /private/var/tolders/8v/k8b7ir8503db3h60tdt9pbw0000a/T/Temporarvltems/tmp.6277.nK1natOk/22/classes.iar:androidx/viewoaaer/widaet/PagerTitleStrip.class >> Methods with invalld locals intormation >> >> voidandroidx.viewpager.widget.PagerTitleStrip.updateTextPositions(int.float,boolean" >> Intormation in locals-table is invalid with respect to the stack map >> table. Local refers to non-present stack map type for register: 37 with >> constraint INT >> -------------------------------------------------------------- Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From merakosp at gmail.com Thu Sep 28 13:57:14 2023 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 20:57:14 +0300 Subject: Android Standalone buiulding error In-Reply-To: <04D3923B-1EFF-431A-B096-BBD9FD3225C7@major-k.de> References: <04D3923B-1EFF-431A-B096-BBD9FD3225C7@major-k.de> Message-ID: Hello Klaus, Yes you do need android API 33, but keep the version of the android build tools to 31.0.0. These are different things. You can install/uninstall various versions of the build tools if you open the second tab of the sdk manager in android studio. Cheers, Panos Ps: afk = away from keyboard :) On Thu, 28 Sept 2023, 20:51 Klaus major-k via use-livecode, < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi Panos, > > > Am 28.09.2023 um 19:40 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: > > > > Hello Klaus, > > > > I am afk > > what does that stand for? 8-) > > > now, but there is a bug report about it. The workaround is to make > > sure you have installed only v31.0.0 of the android *build tools*. > Anything > > above v31 will cause this error. > > But LC claimed this for version 9.6.10 (from the LC blog): > ---------------------------------------------- > LiveCode 9.6.10 Stable Released > ... > FEATURES ADDED: > Android API 33 update > The Android engine is now built using version 33 of the Android API, a > requirement for new apps submitted to the Google Play Store. Note you’ll > have to install “Android API 33” using the SDK Manager in Android Studio. > --------------------------------------------- > And I am using LC 9.6.10! > I installed API 33 for this reason. What gives? :-( > > And we MUST use API 33 for new apps or updates of older app. > Or did I misunderstand this Google requirement? > > > Cheers, > > Panos > > > > On Thu, 28 Sept 2023, 18:35 Klaus major-k via use-livecode, < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > >> Hi friends, > >> > >> I created an Android runtime from this stack in April without any > problem. > >> Now I changes some minor cosmetic issues and got this error when "Save > as > >> standalone..." > >> > >> Only thing I can remember is that I added API 33 in Android Studio. > >> > >> macOS 12.7, LC 9.6.10. Android Studio 2021.3 > >> ------------------------------------------------------------ > >> There was an error while saving the standalone application > >> Could not encode class bundle - error: > >> Methods with invalid locals information > >> void androidx.orint.Printre persprintUriAdapters > >> I.onrosttxecutelandroid.araonics.Bitman) > >> Information in locals-table is invalid with respect to the stack map > >> table. Local refers to non-present stack map type for register: 2 with > >> constraint OBJECT > >> Info in > >> > >> > /private/var/tolders/8v/k8b7ir8503db3h60tdt9pbw0000a/T/Temporarvltems/tmp.6277.nK1natOk/22/classes.iar:androidx/viewoaaer/widaet/PagerTitleStrip.class > >> Methods with invalld locals intormation > >> > >> > voidandroidx.viewpager.widget.PagerTitleStrip.updateTextPositions(int.float,boolean" > >> Intormation in locals-table is invalid with respect to the stack map > >> table. Local refers to non-present stack map type for register: 37 with > >> constraint INT > >> -------------------------------------------------------------- > > Best > > Klaus > > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > https://www.major-k.de/bass > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From klaus at major-k.de Thu Sep 28 14:06:50 2023 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 20:06:50 +0200 Subject: Android Standalone buiulding error In-Reply-To: References: <04D3923B-1EFF-431A-B096-BBD9FD3225C7@major-k.de> Message-ID: <917EB892-2DCD-456C-A8E7-E6650A08F7FA@major-k.de> Hi Panos, > Am 28.09.2023 um 19:57 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode : > > Hello Klaus, > > Yes you do need android API 33, but keep the version of the android build > tools to 31.0.0. These are different things. ah, sorry, my fault, I had no idea! 8-) > You can install/uninstall > various versions of the build tools if you open the second tab of the sdk > manager in android studio. Thank you, will do. > Cheers, > Panos > > Ps: afk = away from keyboard :) AHA, efcharistó! > On Thu, 28 Sept 2023, 20:51 Klaus major-k via use-livecode, < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Hi Panos, >> >>> Am 28.09.2023 um 19:40 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: >>> >>> Hello Klaus, >>> >>> I am afk >> >> what does that stand for? 8-) >> >>> now, but there is a bug report about it. The workaround is to make >>> sure you have installed only v31.0.0 of the android *build tools*. >> Anything >>> above v31 will cause this error. >> >> But LC claimed this for version 9.6.10 (from the LC blog): >> ---------------------------------------------- >> LiveCode 9.6.10 Stable Released >> ... >> FEATURES ADDED: >> Android API 33 update >> The Android engine is now built using version 33 of the Android API, a >> requirement for new apps submitted to the Google Play Store. Note you’ll >> have to install “Android API 33” using the SDK Manager in Android Studio. >> --------------------------------------------- >> And I am using LC 9.6.10! >> I installed API 33 for this reason. What gives? :-( >> >> And we MUST use API 33 for new apps or updates of older app. >> Or did I misunderstand this Google requirement? Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Sep 28 15:07:42 2023 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 12:07:42 -0700 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47f0517d-2a9a-7364-a0b3-1b26ca7ee8fd@fourthworld.com> William Prothero wrote: > Discord looks really interesting. I'm thinking of trying it out. > One thing I wonder about is user privacy. I know there are private > channels, but does the entity supporting discord have access to > user data, emails, names, etc? > > That will be the first question I'm asked. It's a good question. With almost every public service today, the answer will be negative. Discord is free of charge but is not open source, so while you can set up a server there easily, someone else is hosting it, and like nearly every public service the TOS fine print allows data mining. Same with Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, and pretty much every SaaS you use. For the purposes Discord used for, this is usually fine. Game publishers use it for support and tips, and a great many other orgs besides, and for that sort of discussion privacy needs are minimal. For example, there's a growing HyperCard group hosted on Discord: https://discord.gg/RZZv3wk4 But with VERY few exceptions, any service you're not hosting yourself will be subject to data mining in one form or another.* Only self-hosted systems provide you with complete assurance about how user data is handled. Discourse is free and open source, but for some the system requirements for self-hosting may be daunting. No worries: there are many dozens of good packages for threaded discussion forums, and most are FOSS and can be self-hosted. And if you use any shared hosting you can try out many of them easily enough in Softaculous or whatever one-click install system is provided by your host. And Bill, it's been a couple years since we talked. If you want to kick around a few ideas for what your group needs, give me a call. Always good to talk with you. ---- * Privacy rant: I'm rebuilding all of my web tooling, and with that my content, and with that I just started the rewrite for my Privacy Policy. When I wrote this more than 15 years ago, the biggest concern at the time was spam. We hadn't yet seen comprehensive cross-indexed user behavior tracking used to build psychographic models capable of destabilizing entire regions, as we've seen with more modern information warfare (the US Senate Intel Committee reports on disinformation campaigns include a good methodology overview: https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/publications/report-select-committee-intelligence-united-states-senate-russian-active-measures ). So while I'll be extending some of the wording scope when my new site is published, I was frankly surprised at how well the rest of a 15-year-old policy has held up - here's the meat of it: To be perfectly frank, we find it disappointing that so many companies who sell products and services online also act as mass-marketing companies, selling your email address and other personal information to anyone who's willing to pony up the cash. We offer our Privacy Policy as a challenge for all other online companies: Stick to what you do, do it well, and stop the practice of selling customer information to strangers. If you can't be profitable sticking with your core business and need to also sell your customers' personal information to remain viable, maybe it's time to rethink your business plan. The sale of customer information to other companies is a significant contributing factor to the ever-growing volume of unsolicited commercial email (commonly called "spam"). Last year alone spam cost ISPs more than US$7 billion, and the aggregate cost to global industries is many times that. We know there are many more legitimate ways to spread the word about good products and services, and hope that by working together we may one day see an end to spam. If digital surveillance is of interest, I've found the work of author and EFF consultant Cory Doctorow particularly enlightening. This article provides a good intro to what he's been up to lately: https://www.pasadenastarnews.com/2023/09/14/cory-doctorow-takes-on-big-techs-worst-impulses-in-the-internet-con/ -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems From thatkeith at mac.com Thu Sep 28 15:13:33 2023 From: thatkeith at mac.com (Keith Martin) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 20:13:33 +0100 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3B953044-4712-41A1-AA5A-A86641A3D2F4@mac.com> > On 23 Sep 2023, at 15:32, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote: > > Discord looks really interesting. To me, Discord looks like a refugee from a moderately poorly designed BBS from 30 years ago. I use it (it's the student comms platform of choice for a course I teach on) and it does work well in the sense of being very functional, but it offends me on multiple levels. k From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Sep 28 15:46:07 2023 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 12:46:07 -0700 Subject: Livecode 10dp6 and web fonts In-Reply-To: <31e0834e-343a-5294-7edf-2db21a993001@researchware.com> References: <31e0834e-343a-5294-7edf-2db21a993001@researchware.com> Message-ID: Paul Dupuis wrote: > So this is sort of an informal poll among Livecoders who MAKE > multi-platform apps (defined as 2 or more platforms of (macOS, > Windows, Linux, iOS, Android, Web) > > (A) Do you try to make your interfaces across platforms the > SAME (as much as possible)? > > OR > > (B) Do you TAILOR each interface for the specific platform (as > much as possible)? The universe of software vast, and with games and other entertainment software, and educational other edge cases, there are solid arguments for a wide range of design priorities. But when it comes to software for enhancing organizational productivity, it may be useful to step back from our app and look at the context of use. An app is one part of a multi-step workflow. The user brings things into our app space, does stuff with it there, and takes things produced there for use elsewhere. Word processors take in ideas and notes, and output print and web documents. Illustration tools take in visions and sketches and output diagrams and pictures. QDA software takes in interviews and other source materials and outputs reports and analysis summaries. With this in mind, a more user-centric question could be: Which number is larger: (A) Number of hours a given user will use one app across multiple operating systems. (B) Number of hours a given user will use multiple apps on a single operating system. OS vendors have expended significant resources documenting the products of their research into user interface guidelines. And the LiveCode team has undertaken significant effort in the v9 series to make delivery of OS-HIG-savvy apps easier than using just about anything else. I don't believe all of those resources were a waste of time. Beyond the simple comparative exercise above, I arrived at my appreciation for LC's xplat savvy following an email exchange I had a few years ago with Bruce Tognazzini on one corner of this subject: dialog button placement. As you know, Mac dialogs put the default button at bottom-right, and Win puts the default at bottom-left. I asked him whether I should use button placement consistent with my app or consistent with OS convention. He described the research behind Apple's choice, and (tho we can expect a certain bias since he directed that research), he presented a strong cognitive argument favoring Apple's approach. But on the question of consistency with user expectations borne of immersion in an OS, even where the OS convention is arguably inferior, he was equally clear: Consistency is far more important. Otherwise, users have to develop a very muddled rule that includes, "except sometimes." > And optionally, an opened ended question: Does your answer depend > of what platforms you are deploying for? I'd be surprised if it doesn't. Look at LC itself, made in a mostly-Mac office and more conformant with Mac conventions than with Win or Linux. If you don't spend most of your time on Windows, you won't have developed the same expectations as someone who uses it exclusively. But consider this: how many times have we seen a Windows app ported to Mac, and it's obviously a Windows port and it just doesn't feel right? That's how Windows users see Mac ports that play fast and loose with Windows UI conventions. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Sep 28 16:09:28 2023 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 13:09:28 -0700 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: <3B953044-4712-41A1-AA5A-A86641A3D2F4@mac.com> References: <3B953044-4712-41A1-AA5A-A86641A3D2F4@mac.com> Message-ID: <23999fd7-9025-3e3a-47f2-8fa8b23b86d6@fourthworld.com> Keith Martin wrote: > To me, Discord looks like a refugee from a moderately poorly > designed BBS from 30 years ago. I use it (it's the student > comms platform of choice for a course I teach on) and it does > work well in the sense of being very functional, but it offends > me on multiple levels. You're not alone. When I started using it for board game discussions my first response was "Holy hellballz, which overcaffienated stoner fell too deeply in love with IRC?" :) The functionality is great, but even just dropping the hashtag to distinguish channel labels would go a long way to making it look less like an IRC holdover. That said, my circle of friends include a good many who still use IRC daily... -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org Thu Sep 28 16:24:16 2023 From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (William Prothero) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 13:24:16 -0700 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: <23999fd7-9025-3e3a-47f2-8fa8b23b86d6@fourthworld.com> References: <23999fd7-9025-3e3a-47f2-8fa8b23b86d6@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <9C9FD92A-E915-4039-AB2E-D6A4D925155B@earthlearningsolutions.org> Thanks, Richard. After I looked into discord privacy policies, I realized that my audience would not even consider it. I decided to make a simple site using bbpress with wordpress and try to use only free or very low cost plug-ins. Most of my programming time in the last year was building a complex wordpress site to support our retirees association. So, I got pretty good with wordpress and figure putting together a basic discussion site will be pretty quick. Of course, privacy is huge issue. I've found that limiting login tries and using captcha seem to work well. Also, I have a plugin that won't accept non US ip addresses to help. The biggest development problem is choosing the plugins from the massive number that claim to be the best. Then it takes a day to find out they can't do what you want. Thanks again for the info. Best, Bill William A. Prothero, PhD Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science University of California, Santa Barbara > On Sep 28, 2023, at 8:12 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > Keith Martin wrote: > > > To me, Discord looks like a refugee from a moderately poorly > > designed BBS from 30 years ago. I use it (it's the student > > comms platform of choice for a course I teach on) and it does > > work well in the sense of being very functional, but it offends > > me on multiple levels. > > You're not alone. When I started using it for board game discussions my first response was "Holy hellballz, which overcaffienated stoner fell too deeply in love with IRC?" :) > > The functionality is great, but even just dropping the hashtag to distinguish channel labels would go a long way to making it look less like an IRC holdover. > > That said, my circle of friends include a good many who still use IRC daily... > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Sep 28 16:39:12 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 20:39:12 +0000 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: <23999fd7-9025-3e3a-47f2-8fa8b23b86d6@fourthworld.com> References: <3B953044-4712-41A1-AA5A-A86641A3D2F4@mac.com> <23999fd7-9025-3e3a-47f2-8fa8b23b86d6@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <88647046-ABDD-4248-895D-D0C37F56F3A2@iotecdigital.com> You seem like a World Of Warcraft guy to me. Bob S > On Sep 28, 2023, at 1:09 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > Keith Martin wrote: > > > To me, Discord looks like a refugee from a moderately poorly > > designed BBS from 30 years ago. I use it (it's the student > > comms platform of choice for a course I teach on) and it does > > work well in the sense of being very functional, but it offends > > me on multiple levels. > > You're not alone. When I started using it for board game discussions my first response was "Holy hellballz, which overcaffienated stoner fell too deeply in love with IRC?" :) > > The functionality is great, but even just dropping the hashtag to distinguish channel labels would go a long way to making it look less like an IRC holdover. > > That said, my circle of friends include a good many who still use IRC daily... > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Sep 28 16:53:47 2023 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 20:53:47 +0000 Subject: [OT] Re: Forum Software LC? Message-ID: <20230928205347.Horde.D40f-3yx3Yqxw2LmCCZW0ev@hub.4wsys.com> Bob Sneidar wrote: > Richard wrote: >> That said, my circle of friends include a good many who still use IRC daily... > > You seem like a World Of Warcraft guy to me.   Worse: Mage Knight :)   --   Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems   From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Sep 28 17:15:41 2023 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 21:15:41 +0000 Subject: [OT] Re: Forum Software LC? Message-ID: <20230928211541.Horde.IvKPox99Yz2-QIm8GPCAoPX@hub.4wsys.com> Dan Brown wrote: > A lot of corporations are indeed making a ton of money off > the back of free labour and free software. Thanks Stallman   Public goods benefit the public. I trust that those who choose to volunteer to contribute to public goods understand that will include businesses as well as individuals.   The relationship is often symbiotic: Apple is one of the key funders of what began as KDE's WebKit, a browser engine widely used far beyond Safari. Heroku has full-time staff contributing to PostgreSQL. Adobe and Microsoft are platinum funders of the Linux Foundation, where 3/4 of kernel contributors are salaried.   Even in my modest corner of the world, my business derives so much value from Ubuntu, Nextcloud, Inkscape, SuiteCRM, and others that I contribute to those projects where I can.   There is the occasional rug-pull from FOSS corps, like Oracle's infamous shenanigans with MySQL and OpenOffice, attempting to turn Free into Freemium.  But those are few, and often backfire: MySQL was forked to MariaDB, OpenOffice forked to LibreOffice, even Owncloud forked to NextCloud, in each case bringing key devs and often the project founder with them.   I'm not familiar with anything Stallman has written advocating rug pulls or labor exploitation, but if I'm missing something I wouldn't mind catching up on that if you'll point the way.   --   Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems   From irog at mac.com Thu Sep 28 22:22:33 2023 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 19:22:33 -0700 Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma In-Reply-To: <20230928205347.Horde.D40f-3yx3Yqxw2LmCCZW0ev@hub.4wsys.com> References: <20230928205347.Horde.D40f-3yx3Yqxw2LmCCZW0ev@hub.4wsys.com> Message-ID: Hope to find help here. LC Versions 9.6.3, 9.6.9, and 10.0.0 all give me the “LiveCode quit unexpectedly" on launch after upgrading to Sonoma v14.0 on my Mac, And no, Reopen does not work either. Please help. Thanks, Roger From irog at mac.com Thu Sep 28 22:51:03 2023 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 19:51:03 -0700 Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma In-Reply-To: References: <20230928205347.Horde.D40f-3yx3Yqxw2LmCCZW0ev@hub.4wsys.com> Message-ID: <7358D74D-C3DF-4E06-A694-26E4E725B22E@mac.com> Ok, I guess I’ve been out to Lunch. A review of the list revealed that V9.6.10 works. Downloaded it and indeed it does work. Is that the whole story? Will the older Community versions not work in Sonoma forevermore? Roger > On Sep 28, 2023, at 7:22 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: > > Hope to find help here. LC Versions 9.6.3, 9.6.9, and 10.0.0 all give me the “LiveCode quit unexpectedly" on launch after upgrading to Sonoma v14.0 on my Mac, And no, Reopen does not work either. Please help. > > Thanks, > > Roger > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Fri Sep 29 04:02:34 2023 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 11:02:34 +0300 Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma In-Reply-To: <7358D74D-C3DF-4E06-A694-26E4E725B22E@mac.com> References: <20230928205347.Horde.D40f-3yx3Yqxw2LmCCZW0ev@hub.4wsys.com> <7358D74D-C3DF-4E06-A694-26E4E725B22E@mac.com> Message-ID: Not as far as I can tell: currently upgrading to the 14.1 beta release, and if that fails I have to spend "a dirty weekend" 'degrading' to MacOS 13 Ventura and then, on the basis of my Time Machine backup, 'putting all the pieces together again'. Best [or, in the light of Apple's non-backwardly-compatible thing': Worst], Richmond. On 29.09.23 5:51, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: > Ok, I guess Ive been out to Lunch. A review of the list revealed that V9.6.10 works. Downloaded it and indeed it does work. Is that the whole story? Will the older Community versions not work in Sonoma forevermore? > > Roger > > >> On Sep 28, 2023, at 7:22PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Hope to find help here. LC Versions 9.6.3, 9.6.9, and 10.0.0 all give me the LiveCode quit unexpectedly" on launch after upgrading to Sonoma v14.0 on my Mac, And no, Reopen does not work either. Please help. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Roger >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Fri Sep 29 07:22:01 2023 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 07:22:01 -0400 Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma In-Reply-To: References: <20230928205347.Horde.D40f-3yx3Yqxw2LmCCZW0ev@hub.4wsys.com> Message-ID: I've not tested personally, but I have been told that STANDALONEs build on 9.6.9 work on Sonoma. Can any one running Sonoma test confirm this? (Perhaps again?) On 9/28/2023 10:22 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: > Hope to find help here. LC Versions 9.6.3, 9.6.9, and 10.0.0 all give me the LiveCode quit unexpectedly" on launch after upgrading to Sonoma v14.0 on my Mac, And no, Reopen does not work either. Please help. > > Thanks, > > Roger > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From gcanyon at gmail.com Fri Sep 29 08:12:08 2023 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 08:12:08 -0400 Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma In-Reply-To: References: <20230928205347.Horde.D40f-3yx3Yqxw2LmCCZW0ev@hub.4wsys.com> Message-ID: Confirming that 9.6.9 dies immediately on launch for me. I have a standalone I built with one of the 9.6.x builds, and that doesn't die (at least not immediately). gc On Fri, Sep 29, 2023 at 7:23 AM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I've not tested personally, but I have been told that STANDALONEs build > on 9.6.9 work on Sonoma. > > Can any one running Sonoma test confirm this? (Perhaps again?) > > > On 9/28/2023 10:22 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: > > Hope to find help here. LC Versions 9.6.3, 9.6.9, and 10.0.0 all give me > the “LiveCode quit unexpectedly" on launch after upgrading to Sonoma v14.0 > on my Mac, And no, Reopen does not work either. Please help. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Roger > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From tore.nilsen at me.com Fri Sep 29 08:41:57 2023 From: tore.nilsen at me.com (Tore Nilsen) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 14:41:57 +0200 Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma In-Reply-To: References: <20230928205347.Horde.D40f-3yx3Yqxw2LmCCZW0ev@hub.4wsys.com> Message-ID: <48E16E69-B02A-4CE0-B03E-4E1F3615187E@me.com> LiveCode 9.6.9 Build 15604 works in Sonoma, the same goes for LiveCode 10 DP6. Try to download 9.6.9 again, you may have an older build of 9.6.9. Tore > 29. sep. 2023 kl. 14:12 skrev Geoff Canyon via use-livecode : > > Confirming that 9.6.9 dies immediately on launch for me. > > I have a standalone I built with one of the 9.6.x builds, and that doesn't > die (at least not immediately). > > gc > > On Fri, Sep 29, 2023 at 7:23 AM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> I've not tested personally, but I have been told that STANDALONEs build >> on 9.6.9 work on Sonoma. >> >> Can any one running Sonoma test confirm this? (Perhaps again?) >> >> >> On 9/28/2023 10:22 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >>> Hope to find help here. LC Versions 9.6.3, 9.6.9, and 10.0.0 all give me >> the “LiveCode quit unexpectedly" on launch after upgrading to Sonoma v14.0 >> on my Mac, And no, Reopen does not work either. Please help. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Roger >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Fri Sep 29 08:42:58 2023 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 15:42:58 +0300 Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma In-Reply-To: References: <20230928205347.Horde.D40f-3yx3Yqxw2LmCCZW0ev@hub.4wsys.com> Message-ID: I have successfully run a build of my 'Devawriter Pro' built with LC 9.6.3 Open Source on an early beta of MacOS 14. My DWPro builds contain NONE of the inclusions. Your mileage may vary. Best, Richmond. On Fri, 29 Sept 2023, 15:13 Geoff Canyon via use-livecode, < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Confirming that 9.6.9 dies immediately on launch for me. > > I have a standalone I built with one of the 9.6.x builds, and that doesn't > die (at least not immediately). > > gc > > On Fri, Sep 29, 2023 at 7:23 AM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > I've not tested personally, but I have been told that STANDALONEs build > > on 9.6.9 work on Sonoma. > > > > Can any one running Sonoma test confirm this? (Perhaps again?) > > > > > > On 9/28/2023 10:22 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: > > > Hope to find help here. LC Versions 9.6.3, 9.6.9, and 10.0.0 all give > me > > the “LiveCode quit unexpectedly" on launch after upgrading to Sonoma > v14.0 > > on my Mac, And no, Reopen does not work either. Please help. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Roger > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From james at thehales.id.au Fri Sep 29 11:10:19 2023 From: james at thehales.id.au (James At The Hales) Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2023 01:10:19 +1000 Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma Message-ID: <3A29D95F-042C-499F-9F27-DA6C95E95496@thehales.id.au> LC 10 dp6 and the current 9.6.10 all work for me on Sonoma. 14.0 Builds from both work, although for me the build process for 10dp6 doesn’t end (the standalone is built though). Also the dictionary in 10dp6 doesn’t work on my mac. James From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 29 11:30:12 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 15:30:12 +0000 Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma In-Reply-To: References: <20230928205347.Horde.D40f-3yx3Yqxw2LmCCZW0ev@hub.4wsys.com> Message-ID: <42B006DF-2B8E-478A-8F24-5794F08DE934@iotecdigital.com> As always, remove all your plugins and try again. Also, just spitballing but do you have your firewall enabled? LC checks for licensing on launch (correct me if I am wrong). Bob S > On Sep 28, 2023, at 7:22 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: > > Hope to find help here. LC Versions 9.6.3, 9.6.9, and 10.0.0 all give me the “LiveCode quit unexpectedly" on launch after upgrading to Sonoma v14.0 on my Mac, And no, Reopen does not work either. Please help. > > Thanks, > > Roger > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From irog at mac.com Fri Sep 29 12:33:44 2023 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 09:33:44 -0700 Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma In-Reply-To: <42B006DF-2B8E-478A-8F24-5794F08DE934@iotecdigital.com> References: <20230928205347.Horde.D40f-3yx3Yqxw2LmCCZW0ev@hub.4wsys.com> <42B006DF-2B8E-478A-8F24-5794F08DE934@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <846EAF6A-1C6D-4830-8EC0-7F504F05423C@mac.com> Thanks, Bob, I’ll give that a try later today. At least I am up and running with LC 9.6.10. Roger > On Sep 29, 2023, at 8:30 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > As always, remove all your plugins and try again. Also, just spitballing but do you have your firewall enabled? LC checks for licensing on launch (correct me if I am wrong). > > Bob S > > >> On Sep 28, 2023, at 7:22 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Hope to find help here. LC Versions 9.6.3, 9.6.9, and 10.0.0 all give me the “LiveCode quit unexpectedly" on launch after upgrading to Sonoma v14.0 on my Mac, And no, Reopen does not work either. Please help. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Roger >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Fri Sep 29 14:30:33 2023 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Eller, Roger) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 18:30:33 +0000 Subject: Fun with ChatGPT creating LC script Message-ID: I asked ChatGPT to solve this problem, which it did perfectly. Then I asked ChatGPT to create code in LiveCode to solve the same problem. It generated some surprisingly great "looking" LC script which on the surface seemed like it would work. I allowed ChatGPT 4 tries to generate functional and complete code to solve this problem. It was never able to. Try it. It's interesting to see the variations that it comes up with. PROBLEM in plain English: If there is a finite number of colored slots on a board; let’s say 15, the first 4 are filled. Also slot 7 and 9 are filled. I have 6 new colors that I need to store in open slots. Which available slots can I put these 6 colors without leaving any gaps? Each color must be unique. ChatGPT response: To place 6 new colors in the available slots without leaving any gaps, you'll need to use slots that are consecutive and unoccupied. In your scenario, you have a board with 15 slots, and the first 4 are filled, slot 7 is filled, and slot 9 is filled. So, you have the following situation: 1. Filled 2. Filled 3. Filled 4. Filled 5. Available 6. Available 7. Filled 8. Available 9. Filled 10. Available 11. Available 12. Available 13. Available 14. Available 15. Available To place 6 unique colors without any gaps, you can use slots 5, 6, 8, 10, 11, and 12. This will fill all the available slots without any gaps: 1. Filled 2. Filled 3. Filled 4. Filled 5. New Color 6. New Color 7. Filled 8. New Color 9. Filled 10. New Color 11. New Color 12. New Color 13. Available 14. Available 15. Available Now you've placed 6 unique colors in the available slots without any gaps. /END ChatGPT response From derek-lc-list at speedbump.io Fri Sep 29 14:53:14 2023 From: derek-lc-list at speedbump.io (Derek Bump) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 13:53:14 -0500 Subject: Fun with ChatGPT creating LC script In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5cd0b456-8bd7-c75f-9901-33f20acc2e66@speedbump.io> Hello Roger, It is indeed a lot of fun, I couldn't agree more! What's truly amazing is how often I can transform that impressive "looking" LC script into something actually functional. Using LLMs in combination with the Script Profiler was all the proof I needed to ensure LLMs are now a dedicated part of my workflow. I do wish there was an offline model that didn't produce just javascript-laden gibberish, but I have a feeling that won't be the case for much longer. Thanks for sharing, Derek Bump On 9/29/23 13:30, Eller, Roger via use-livecode wrote: > Then I asked ChatGPT to create code in LiveCode to solve the same problem. It generated some surprisingly great "looking" LC script which on the surface seemed like it would work. I allowed ChatGPT 4 tries to generate functional and complete code to solve this problem. It was never able to. Try it. It's interesting to see the variations that it comes up with. From irog at mac.com Fri Sep 29 16:26:05 2023 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 13:26:05 -0700 Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma In-Reply-To: <846EAF6A-1C6D-4830-8EC0-7F504F05423C@mac.com> References: <20230928205347.Horde.D40f-3yx3Yqxw2LmCCZW0ev@hub.4wsys.com> <42B006DF-2B8E-478A-8F24-5794F08DE934@iotecdigital.com> <846EAF6A-1C6D-4830-8EC0-7F504F05423C@mac.com> Message-ID: Nope, removing the plugins is not the answer to making LiveCode work in Sonoma. To be clear, I have found that LC 9.6.10 is the only version that works in Sonoma. I’m not sure if there is a subsequent version of 10.0.0 (DP 4) that might work? Oh and Firewall is inactive Roger > On Sep 29, 2023, at 9:33 AM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: > > Thanks, Bob, I’ll give that a try later today. At least I am up and running with LC 9.6.10. > > Roger > >> On Sep 29, 2023, at 8:30 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: >> >> As always, remove all your plugins and try again. Also, just spitballing but do you have your firewall enabled? LC checks for licensing on launch (correct me if I am wrong). >> >> Bob S >> >> >>> On Sep 28, 2023, at 7:22 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> Hope to find help here. LC Versions 9.6.3, 9.6.9, and 10.0.0 all give me the “LiveCode quit unexpectedly" on launch after upgrading to Sonoma v14.0 on my Mac, And no, Reopen does not work either. Please help. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Roger >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From irog at mac.com Fri Sep 29 17:03:27 2023 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 14:03:27 -0700 Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma In-Reply-To: References: <20230928205347.Horde.D40f-3yx3Yqxw2LmCCZW0ev@hub.4wsys.com> <42B006DF-2B8E-478A-8F24-5794F08DE934@iotecdigital.com> <846EAF6A-1C6D-4830-8EC0-7F504F05423C@mac.com> Message-ID: <45E089F9-D648-45D0-B983-E01366903AB4@mac.com> Finally, I can confirm that 10.0.0-dp-6 works in Sonoma Roger > On Sep 29, 2023, at 1:26 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: > > Nope, removing the plugins is not the answer to making LiveCode work in Sonoma. To be clear, I have found that LC 9.6.10 is the only version that works in Sonoma. I’m not sure if there is a subsequent version of 10.0.0 (DP 4) that might work? > > Oh and Firewall is inactive > > > Roger > >> On Sep 29, 2023, at 9:33 AM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Thanks, Bob, I’ll give that a try later today. At least I am up and running with LC 9.6.10. >> >> Roger >> >>> On Sep 29, 2023, at 8:30 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> As always, remove all your plugins and try again. Also, just spitballing but do you have your firewall enabled? LC checks for licensing on launch (correct me if I am wrong). >>> >>> Bob S >>> >>> >>>> On Sep 28, 2023, at 7:22 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >>>> >>>> Hope to find help here. LC Versions 9.6.3, 9.6.9, and 10.0.0 all give me the “LiveCode quit unexpectedly" on launch after upgrading to Sonoma v14.0 on my Mac, And no, Reopen does not work either. Please help. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Roger >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Fri Sep 29 18:44:20 2023 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2023 00:44:20 +0200 Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma In-Reply-To: <45E089F9-D648-45D0-B983-E01366903AB4@mac.com> References: <20230928205347.Horde.D40f-3yx3Yqxw2LmCCZW0ev@hub.4wsys.com> <42B006DF-2B8E-478A-8F24-5794F08DE934@iotecdigital.com> <846EAF6A-1C6D-4830-8EC0-7F504F05423C@mac.com> <45E089F9-D648-45D0-B983-E01366903AB4@mac.com> Message-ID: <00BF1E83-64C1-4337-92F0-813B073D5574@m-r-d.de> While checking the different binaries of the app bundles of 9.6.9, 9.6.10, 10dp4 and 10.dp6 i noticed that only 9.6.10 and 10DP6 app bundles have all their binaries completely code signed. I just checked the content of the macOS folder of the app bundles, but there for example the livecode executables of 9.6.10 and 10DP6 have valid signature, but the livecode executables of 9.6.9 and 10DP4 haven't. So maybe this is the reason why the older releases do not work in Sonoma. If you have a current Apple Developer subscription you could try to code sign and notarize the complete app bundle of 9.6.9 for example. Maybe this will allow to run these versions under Sonoma. I did this some time ago, if i remember right then with 10DP2 and an "enhanced" plist to get an other problem fixed. https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23576 > Am 29.09.2023 um 23:03 schrieb Roger Guay via use-livecode : > > Finally, I can confirm that 10.0.0-dp-6 works in Sonoma > > Roger > >> On Sep 29, 2023, at 1:26 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Nope, removing the plugins is not the answer to making LiveCode work in Sonoma. To be clear, I have found that LC 9.6.10 is the only version that works in Sonoma. I’m not sure if there is a subsequent version of 10.0.0 (DP 4) that might work? >> >> Oh and Firewall is inactive >> >> >> Roger >> >>> On Sep 29, 2023, at 9:33 AM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> Thanks, Bob, I’ll give that a try later today. At least I am up and running with LC 9.6.10. >>> >>> Roger >>> >>>> On Sep 29, 2023, at 8:30 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: >>>> >>>> As always, remove all your plugins and try again. Also, just spitballing but do you have your firewall enabled? LC checks for licensing on launch (correct me if I am wrong). >>>> >>>> Bob S >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Sep 28, 2023, at 7:22 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hope to find help here. LC Versions 9.6.3, 9.6.9, and 10.0.0 all give me the “LiveCode quit unexpectedly" on launch after upgrading to Sonoma v14.0 on my Mac, And no, Reopen does not work either. Please help. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Roger >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 29 19:22:31 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 23:22:31 +0000 Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma In-Reply-To: <00BF1E83-64C1-4337-92F0-813B073D5574@m-r-d.de> References: <20230928205347.Horde.D40f-3yx3Yqxw2LmCCZW0ev@hub.4wsys.com> <42B006DF-2B8E-478A-8F24-5794F08DE934@iotecdigital.com> <846EAF6A-1C6D-4830-8EC0-7F504F05423C@mac.com> <45E089F9-D648-45D0-B983-E01366903AB4@mac.com> <00BF1E83-64C1-4337-92F0-813B073D5574@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <91B6AAE5-5DEB-47AA-8F12-CD7F20A05DCC@iotecdigital.com> Hmmm… I wonder if we can expect ALL unsigned apps to crash under Sonoma? Bob S On Sep 29, 2023, at 3:44 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: While checking the different binaries of the app bundles of 9.6.9, 9.6.10, 10dp4 and 10.dp6 i noticed that only 9.6.10 and 10DP6 app bundles have all their binaries completely code signed. I just checked the content of the macOS folder of the app bundles, but there for example the livecode executables of 9.6.10 and 10DP6 have valid signature, but the livecode executables of 9.6.9 and 10DP4 haven't. So maybe this is the reason why the older releases do not work in Sonoma. If you have a current Apple Developer subscription you could try to code sign and notarize the complete app bundle of 9.6.9 for example. Maybe this will allow to run these versions under Sonoma. I did this some time ago, if i remember right then with 10DP2 and an "enhanced" plist to get an other problem fixed. https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23576 Am 29.09.2023 um 23:03 schrieb Roger Guay via use-livecode >: Finally, I can confirm that 10.0.0-dp-6 works in Sonoma Roger From irog at mac.com Fri Sep 29 19:34:41 2023 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 16:34:41 -0700 Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma In-Reply-To: <91B6AAE5-5DEB-47AA-8F12-CD7F20A05DCC@iotecdigital.com> References: <20230928205347.Horde.D40f-3yx3Yqxw2LmCCZW0ev@hub.4wsys.com> <42B006DF-2B8E-478A-8F24-5794F08DE934@iotecdigital.com> <846EAF6A-1C6D-4830-8EC0-7F504F05423C@mac.com> <45E089F9-D648-45D0-B983-E01366903AB4@mac.com> <00BF1E83-64C1-4337-92F0-813B073D5574@m-r-d.de> <91B6AAE5-5DEB-47AA-8F12-CD7F20A05DCC@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: If you mean unsigned standalones, I just checked one of mine developed probably in 9.6 or 9.7 and it worked. Roger > On Sep 29, 2023, at 4:22 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > Hmmm… I wonder if we can expect ALL unsigned apps to crash under Sonoma? > > Bob S > > > On Sep 29, 2023, at 3:44 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > > While checking the different binaries of the app bundles of 9.6.9, 9.6.10, 10dp4 and 10.dp6 i noticed > that only 9.6.10 and 10DP6 app bundles have all their binaries completely code signed. > > I just checked the content of the macOS folder of the app bundles, but there for example the livecode executables of 9.6.10 and 10DP6 have valid signature, but the livecode executables of 9.6.9 and 10DP4 haven't. > So maybe this is the reason why the older releases do not work in Sonoma. > > If you have a current Apple Developer subscription you could try to code sign and notarize the complete app bundle of 9.6.9 for example. Maybe this will allow to run these versions under Sonoma. > I did this some time ago, if i remember right then with 10DP2 and an "enhanced" plist to get an other problem fixed. > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23576 > > > > > Am 29.09.2023 um 23:03 schrieb Roger Guay via use-livecode >: > > Finally, I can confirm that 10.0.0-dp-6 works in Sonoma > > Roger > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Fri Sep 29 19:39:52 2023 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe) Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2023 01:39:52 +0200 Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma In-Reply-To: <91B6AAE5-5DEB-47AA-8F12-CD7F20A05DCC@iotecdigital.com> References: <91B6AAE5-5DEB-47AA-8F12-CD7F20A05DCC@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <3A11141C-8885-4AFD-9D5E-C17867B78279@m-r-d.de> Maybe my observation is not the reason for the crash. Would really not make sense, when an unsigned app would crash instead of reporting an alert. But code signing the complete Livecode app bundle would proof it. Did someone btw had a look at the system log file after the crash? Von meinem iPhone gesendet > Am 30.09.2023 um 01:23 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode : > > Hmmm… I wonder if we can expect ALL unsigned apps to crash under Sonoma? > > Bob S > > > On Sep 29, 2023, at 3:44 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > > While checking the different binaries of the app bundles of 9.6.9, 9.6.10, 10dp4 and 10.dp6 i noticed > that only 9.6.10 and 10DP6 app bundles have all their binaries completely code signed. > > I just checked the content of the macOS folder of the app bundles, but there for example the livecode executables of 9.6.10 and 10DP6 have valid signature, but the livecode executables of 9.6.9 and 10DP4 haven't. > So maybe this is the reason why the older releases do not work in Sonoma. > > If you have a current Apple Developer subscription you could try to code sign and notarize the complete app bundle of 9.6.9 for example. Maybe this will allow to run these versions under Sonoma. > I did this some time ago, if i remember right then with 10DP2 and an "enhanced" plist to get an other problem fixed. > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23576 > > > > > Am 29.09.2023 um 23:03 schrieb Roger Guay via use-livecode >: > > Finally, I can confirm that 10.0.0-dp-6 works in Sonoma > > Roger > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 29 19:52:08 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 23:52:08 +0000 Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma In-Reply-To: References: <20230928205347.Horde.D40f-3yx3Yqxw2LmCCZW0ev@hub.4wsys.com> <42B006DF-2B8E-478A-8F24-5794F08DE934@iotecdigital.com> <846EAF6A-1C6D-4830-8EC0-7F504F05423C@mac.com> <45E089F9-D648-45D0-B983-E01366903AB4@mac.com> <00BF1E83-64C1-4337-92F0-813B073D5574@m-r-d.de> <91B6AAE5-5DEB-47AA-8F12-CD7F20A05DCC@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <066AF6CB-1246-42E5-9625-8AB9707DD267@iotecdigital.com> I mean unsigned anything. I use some utility apps unrelated to Livecode which I had to allow when I ran them the first time if memory serves. Bob S > On Sep 29, 2023, at 4:34 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: > > If you mean unsigned standalones, I just checked one of mine developed probably in 9.6 or 9.7 and it worked. > > Roger > >> On Sep 29, 2023, at 4:22 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Hmmm… I wonder if we can expect ALL unsigned apps to crash under Sonoma? >> >> Bob S >> >> >> On Sep 29, 2023, at 3:44 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: >> >> While checking the different binaries of the app bundles of 9.6.9, 9.6.10, 10dp4 and 10.dp6 i noticed >> that only 9.6.10 and 10DP6 app bundles have all their binaries completely code signed. >> >> I just checked the content of the macOS folder of the app bundles, but there for example the livecode executables of 9.6.10 and 10DP6 have valid signature, but the livecode executables of 9.6.9 and 10DP4 haven't. >> So maybe this is the reason why the older releases do not work in Sonoma. >> >> If you have a current Apple Developer subscription you could try to code sign and notarize the complete app bundle of 9.6.9 for example. Maybe this will allow to run these versions under Sonoma. >> I did this some time ago, if i remember right then with 10DP2 and an "enhanced" plist to get an other problem fixed. >> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23576 >> >> >> >> >> Am 29.09.2023 um 23:03 schrieb Roger Guay via use-livecode >: >> >> Finally, I can confirm that 10.0.0-dp-6 works in Sonoma >> >> Roger >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Fri Sep 1 12:44:25 2023 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 12:44:25 -0400 Subject: is strictly a name Message-ID: <76a6ebf7-7c63-c8ed-6c47-1da23d6170f5@researchware.com> I may just be experiencing a brain fart, but I have read the release notes several times, and I don't understand the purpose of the new: is strictly a name operator? Can someone explain its purpose in really basic terms or examples? From tom at makeshyft.com Fri Sep 1 13:20:04 2023 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 13:20:04 -0400 Subject: UUID v7 Message-ID: Hi Folks, Sharing this because its useful, and also, more eyeballs on the code makes sense. I implemented this with the help of chatGPT. This is a handler that can generate v7 UUIDs. v7 UUIDs work better in databases, because they are not so random, improving performance. And they are sequential. They also match the format of uuid v4 Also the specs for v7 have not yet been finalized. Here it is: function CreateUUID pVersion // This Handler returns a if pVersion is not 7 then //Return V4 Random UUID return uuid("random") else if pVersion = 7 then // return V7 Random yet sequenced UUID local tUnixTsMs, tVer, tRandA, tTVar, tRandB, tTheID -- Get the current timestamp in milliseconds put baseConvert(the milliseconds, 10, 16) into tUnixTsMs put format("%012s", tUnixTsMs) into tUnixTsMs // Set the version field to 0b0111 (7) put "7" into tVer // Generate 12 bits of pseudo-random data for RAND A put random(4095) into tRandA -- 4095 is the maximum value for 12 bits put baseConvert(tRandA, 10, 16) into tRandA put format("%03s", tRandA) into tRandA // Set the variant field to 0b10 put "8" into tTVar -- 0b10 in hexadecimal // Generate 62 bits of pseudo-random data for RAND B repeat 16 times put baseConvert(random(15), 10, 16) after tRandB -- generate one hex digit at a time end repeat // Combine all the bits to form the UUID put tUnixTsMs & tVer & tRandA & tTVar & tRandB into tTheID // Insert dashes to form the UUID in 8-4-4-4-12 format put char 1 to 8 of tTheID & "-" & char 9 to 12 of tTheID & "-" & char 13 to 16 of tTheID & "-" & char 17 to 20 of tTheID & "-" & char 21 to 32 of tTheID into tTheID return tTheID end if end CreateUUID tVersion Cheers, Tom From mark at livecode.com Fri Sep 1 13:23:37 2023 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2023 18:23:37 +0100 Subject: is strictly a name In-Reply-To: <76a6ebf7-7c63-c8ed-6c47-1da23d6170f5@researchware.com> References: <76a6ebf7-7c63-c8ed-6c47-1da23d6170f5@researchware.com> Message-ID: <2336faa71ba8ce663a76639acf421766@livecode.com> On 2023-09-01 17:44, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > I may just be experiencing a brain fart, but I have read the release > notes several times, and I don't understand the purpose of the new: > > is strictly a name > > operator? Can someone explain its purpose in really basic terms or > examples? Its purposes is so that it is possible to tell when a value is a 'name' rather than a 'string' when the distinction is important. The cases where this is true are few and far between - indeed, the use-case it was added for was so that the exact runtime type of constant values generated when parsing script (e.g. from constant initializers) is preserved. There are two kinds of strings internally - strings and names. All names are strings, but not all strings are names. The difference is that there is only ever one instance of a name with a given string in memory - e.g. if two variables hold a name whose string is "foo", then they will hold the same pointer. As to what names are - they are an optimization for cases where the engine will often do comparisons between them. Names are implemented in a global hash table in such a way that caseless and case-sensitive comparisons are constant time (when both values being compared are names). The keys of an array are names - which means the engine never has to compare the actual characters of a key in an array as it does a lookup. Literals in scripts are stored as names - so if you have 100 instances of the string constant "foobar" throughout all your scripts as literals - there will only actually be one instance of "foobar" Similarly, internally, object names, handler names and variable names are all stored as, well, names (again - because they are commonly compared against each other). Some examples of where you can observe a name are: put "foo" is strictly a name => true put ("foo" & empty) is strictly a name => false repeat for each key tFoo in { "foo": true } put tFoo is a strictly a name => true end repeat There might be a few other places where you could see a name rather than a string, but as mentioned above - its unlikely that 99.9% of people would ever need to worry about it :) Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Build Amazing Things From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri Sep 1 13:36:29 2023 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 13:36:29 -0400 Subject: UUID v7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: why would reducing randomness be desirable in an internet-facing app? isn't the whole point to * ensure uniqueness across the entire space * make it nearly impossible to guess an ID? i would think that once you make the id's sequential, you have eliminated the ability to stop an authorized user from randomly marching through your data. On Fri, Sep 1, 2023 at 1:21 PM Tom Glod via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi Folks, > > Sharing this because its useful, and also, more eyeballs on the code makes > sense. > I implemented this with the help of chatGPT. > > This is a handler that can generate v7 UUIDs. > v7 UUIDs work better in databases, because they are not so random, > improving performance. > And they are sequential. > They also match the format of uuid v4 > Also the specs for v7 have not yet been finalized. > > Here it is: > > function CreateUUID pVersion > // This Handler returns a > if pVersion is not 7 then > //Return V4 Random UUID > return uuid("random") > > else if pVersion = 7 then > // return V7 Random yet sequenced UUID > > local tUnixTsMs, tVer, tRandA, tTVar, tRandB, tTheID > -- Get the current timestamp in milliseconds > > put baseConvert(the milliseconds, 10, 16) into tUnixTsMs > put format("%012s", tUnixTsMs) into tUnixTsMs > > // Set the version field to 0b0111 (7) > put "7" into tVer > > // Generate 12 bits of pseudo-random data for RAND A > put random(4095) into tRandA -- 4095 is the maximum value for 12 bits > put baseConvert(tRandA, 10, 16) into tRandA > put format("%03s", tRandA) into tRandA > > // Set the variant field to 0b10 > put "8" into tTVar -- 0b10 in hexadecimal > > // Generate 62 bits of pseudo-random data for RAND B > repeat 16 times > put baseConvert(random(15), 10, 16) after tRandB -- generate one > hex digit at a time > end repeat > > // Combine all the bits to form the UUID > put tUnixTsMs & tVer & tRandA & tTVar & tRandB into tTheID > > // Insert dashes to form the UUID in 8-4-4-4-12 format > put char 1 to 8 of tTheID & "-" & char 9 to 12 of tTheID & "-" & char > 13 to 16 of tTheID & "-" & char 17 to 20 of tTheID & "-" & char 21 to 32 of > tTheID into tTheID > > return tTheID > end if > end CreateUUID tVersion > > Cheers, > > Tom > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From tom at makeshyft.com Fri Sep 1 13:54:51 2023 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 13:54:51 -0400 Subject: UUID v7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Mike, Sometimes you just don't need uniqueness across all bits, and if you do, use v4. In my example, the ID is used for clipboard clips, but now I don't have to sort them based on their timestamp. Also this improves database performance as the btree is better organized. There are a few videos and lots of papers on the topic. On Fri, Sep 1, 2023 at 1:38 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > why would reducing randomness be desirable in an internet-facing app? isn't > the whole point to > * ensure uniqueness across the entire space > * make it nearly impossible to guess an ID? > i would think that once you make the id's sequential, you have eliminated > the ability to stop an authorized user from randomly marching through your > data. > > On Fri, Sep 1, 2023 at 1:21 PM Tom Glod via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > Hi Folks, > > > > Sharing this because its useful, and also, more eyeballs on the code > makes > > sense. > > I implemented this with the help of chatGPT. > > > > This is a handler that can generate v7 UUIDs. > > v7 UUIDs work better in databases, because they are not so random, > > improving performance. > > And they are sequential. > > They also match the format of uuid v4 > > Also the specs for v7 have not yet been finalized. > > > > Here it is: > > > > function CreateUUID pVersion > > // This Handler returns a > > if pVersion is not 7 then > > //Return V4 Random UUID > > return uuid("random") > > > > else if pVersion = 7 then > > // return V7 Random yet sequenced UUID > > > > local tUnixTsMs, tVer, tRandA, tTVar, tRandB, tTheID > > -- Get the current timestamp in milliseconds > > > > put baseConvert(the milliseconds, 10, 16) into tUnixTsMs > > put format("%012s", tUnixTsMs) into tUnixTsMs > > > > // Set the version field to 0b0111 (7) > > put "7" into tVer > > > > // Generate 12 bits of pseudo-random data for RAND A > > put random(4095) into tRandA -- 4095 is the maximum value for 12 > bits > > put baseConvert(tRandA, 10, 16) into tRandA > > put format("%03s", tRandA) into tRandA > > > > // Set the variant field to 0b10 > > put "8" into tTVar -- 0b10 in hexadecimal > > > > // Generate 62 bits of pseudo-random data for RAND B > > repeat 16 times > > put baseConvert(random(15), 10, 16) after tRandB -- generate one > > hex digit at a time > > end repeat > > > > // Combine all the bits to form the UUID > > put tUnixTsMs & tVer & tRandA & tTVar & tRandB into tTheID > > > > // Insert dashes to form the UUID in 8-4-4-4-12 format > > put char 1 to 8 of tTheID & "-" & char 9 to 12 of tTheID & "-" & > char > > 13 to 16 of tTheID & "-" & char 17 to 20 of tTheID & "-" & char 21 to 32 > of > > tTheID into tTheID > > > > return tTheID > > end if > > end CreateUUID tVersion > > > > Cheers, > > > > Tom > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri Sep 1 15:00:59 2023 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 15:00:59 -0400 Subject: UUID v7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: it's an interesting topic, because in one of the db communities i'm involved with, they're actually going the other way, increasing entropy. On Fri, Sep 1, 2023 at 1:56 PM Tom Glod via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi Mike, > > Sometimes you just don't need uniqueness across all bits, and if you do, > use v4. > In my example, the ID is used for clipboard clips, but now I don't have to > sort them based on their timestamp. > Also this improves database performance as the btree is better organized. > There are a few videos and lots of papers on the topic. > > > On Fri, Sep 1, 2023 at 1:38 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > why would reducing randomness be desirable in an internet-facing app? > isn't > > the whole point to > > * ensure uniqueness across the entire space > > * make it nearly impossible to guess an ID? > > i would think that once you make the id's sequential, you have eliminated > > the ability to stop an authorized user from randomly marching through > your > > data. > > > > On Fri, Sep 1, 2023 at 1:21 PM Tom Glod via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > > Hi Folks, > > > > > > Sharing this because its useful, and also, more eyeballs on the code > > makes > > > sense. > > > I implemented this with the help of chatGPT. > > > > > > This is a handler that can generate v7 UUIDs. > > > v7 UUIDs work better in databases, because they are not so random, > > > improving performance. > > > And they are sequential. > > > They also match the format of uuid v4 > > > Also the specs for v7 have not yet been finalized. > > > > > > Here it is: > > > > > > function CreateUUID pVersion > > > // This Handler returns a > > > if pVersion is not 7 then > > > //Return V4 Random UUID > > > return uuid("random") > > > > > > else if pVersion = 7 then > > > // return V7 Random yet sequenced UUID > > > > > > local tUnixTsMs, tVer, tRandA, tTVar, tRandB, tTheID > > > -- Get the current timestamp in milliseconds > > > > > > put baseConvert(the milliseconds, 10, 16) into tUnixTsMs > > > put format("%012s", tUnixTsMs) into tUnixTsMs > > > > > > // Set the version field to 0b0111 (7) > > > put "7" into tVer > > > > > > // Generate 12 bits of pseudo-random data for RAND A > > > put random(4095) into tRandA -- 4095 is the maximum value for 12 > > bits > > > put baseConvert(tRandA, 10, 16) into tRandA > > > put format("%03s", tRandA) into tRandA > > > > > > // Set the variant field to 0b10 > > > put "8" into tTVar -- 0b10 in hexadecimal > > > > > > // Generate 62 bits of pseudo-random data for RAND B > > > repeat 16 times > > > put baseConvert(random(15), 10, 16) after tRandB -- generate > one > > > hex digit at a time > > > end repeat > > > > > > // Combine all the bits to form the UUID > > > put tUnixTsMs & tVer & tRandA & tTVar & tRandB into tTheID > > > > > > // Insert dashes to form the UUID in 8-4-4-4-12 format > > > put char 1 to 8 of tTheID & "-" & char 9 to 12 of tTheID & "-" & > > char > > > 13 to 16 of tTheID & "-" & char 17 to 20 of tTheID & "-" & char 21 to > 32 > > of > > > tTheID into tTheID > > > > > > return tTheID > > > end if > > > end CreateUUID tVersion > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Tom > > > _______________________________________________ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 1 15:22:17 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 19:22:17 +0000 Subject: is strictly a name In-Reply-To: <2336faa71ba8ce663a76639acf421766@livecode.com> References: <76a6ebf7-7c63-c8ed-6c47-1da23d6170f5@researchware.com> <2336faa71ba8ce663a76639acf421766@livecode.com> Message-ID: <677EF40F-2C3D-4A7C-B97C-C14B52592904@iotecdigital.com> I put “Bob” is strictly my name in the message box and got false. But then i tried “Bob” is my name and ALSO got false! Is that a bug?? 🤭 Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 1, 2023, at 10:24, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > > On 2023-09-01 17:44, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: >> I may just be experiencing a brain fart, but I have read the release notes several times, and I don't understand the purpose of the new: >> is strictly a name >> operator? Can someone explain its purpose in really basic terms or examples? > > Its purposes is so that it is possible to tell when a value is a 'name' rather than a 'string' when the distinction is important. The cases where this is true are few and far between - indeed, the use-case it was added for was so that the exact runtime type of constant values generated when parsing script (e.g. from constant initializers) is preserved. > > There are two kinds of strings internally - strings and names. All names are strings, but not all strings are names. > > The difference is that there is only ever one instance of a name with a given string in memory - e.g. if two variables hold a name whose string is "foo", then they will hold the same pointer. > > As to what names are - they are an optimization for cases where the engine will often do comparisons between them. > > Names are implemented in a global hash table in such a way that caseless and case-sensitive comparisons are constant time (when both values being compared are names). > > The keys of an array are names - which means the engine never has to compare the actual characters of a key in an array as it does a lookup. > > Literals in scripts are stored as names - so if you have 100 instances of the string constant "foobar" throughout all your scripts as literals - there will only actually be one instance of "foobar" > > Similarly, internally, object names, handler names and variable names are all stored as, well, names (again - because they are commonly compared against each other). > > Some examples of where you can observe a name are: > > put "foo" is strictly a name => true > > put ("foo" & empty) is strictly a name => false > > repeat for each key tFoo in { "foo": true } > put tFoo is a strictly a name => true > end repeat > > There might be a few other places where you could see a name rather than a string, but as mentioned above - its unlikely that 99.9% of people would ever need to worry about it :) > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > > -- > Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Build Amazing Things > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Fri Sep 1 15:29:10 2023 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 15:29:10 -0400 Subject: is strictly a name In-Reply-To: <2336faa71ba8ce663a76639acf421766@livecode.com> References: <76a6ebf7-7c63-c8ed-6c47-1da23d6170f5@researchware.com> <2336faa71ba8ce663a76639acf421766@livecode.com> Message-ID: <8775c016-45e3-99e6-befd-5f733a6aca20@researchware.com> Thank you Mark. I followed that explanation and now understand that - for all of my foreseeable applications - I can ignore 'is strictly a name' :-) Paul On 9/1/2023 1:23 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > On 2023-09-01 17:44, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: >> I may just be experiencing a brain fart, but I have read the release >> notes several times, and I don't understand the purpose of the new: >> >> is strictly a name >> >> operator? Can someone explain its purpose in really basic terms or >> examples? > > Its purposes is so that it is possible to tell when a value is a > 'name' rather than a 'string' when the distinction is important. The > cases where this is true are few and far between - indeed, the > use-case it was added for was so that the exact runtime type of > constant values generated when parsing script (e.g. from constant > initializers) is preserved. > > There are two kinds of strings internally - strings and names. All > names are strings, but not all strings are names. > > The difference is that there is only ever one instance of a name with > a given string in memory - e.g. if two variables hold a name whose > string is "foo", then they will hold the same pointer. > > As to what names are - they are an optimization for cases where the > engine will often do comparisons between them. > > Names are implemented in a global hash table in such a way that > caseless and case-sensitive comparisons are constant time (when both > values being compared are names). > > The keys of an array are names - which means the engine never has to > compare the actual characters of a key in an array as it does a lookup. > > Literals in scripts are stored as names - so if you have 100 instances > of the string constant "foobar" throughout all your scripts as > literals - there will only actually be one instance of "foobar" > > Similarly, internally, object names, handler names and variable names > are all stored as, well, names (again - because they are commonly > compared against each other). > > Some examples of where you can observe a name are: > >    put "foo" is strictly a name => true > >    put ("foo" & empty) is strictly a name => false > >    repeat for each key tFoo in { "foo": true } >      put tFoo is a strictly a name => true >    end repeat > > There might be a few other places where you could see a name rather > than a string, but as mentioned above - its unlikely that 99.9% of > people would ever need to worry about it :) > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > From dfe4 at cornell.edu Fri Sep 1 15:32:43 2023 From: dfe4 at cornell.edu (David Epstein) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 15:32:43 -0400 Subject: Pasting text and images together? Message-ID: To clarify my original question: I'm not expecting the built-in paste command to handle this task; I'm wondering if I can script my own paste command to handle it. Richmond, I can write a script to "paste" an image by itself (by creating an image and setting its text to clipboardData["image"]). But is there some way I can access both the text and the image that are on the clipboard after I have copied a combination of those from, e.g., a web browser? (Pasting to Apple Notes confirms that the clipboard contains both text and image.) From tom at makeshyft.com Fri Sep 1 15:53:22 2023 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 15:53:22 -0400 Subject: UUID v7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Oh yeah,that makes sense usually... just a different use case that is all. On Fri, Sep 1, 2023 at 3:02 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > it's an interesting topic, because in one of the db communities i'm > involved with, they're actually going the other way, increasing entropy. > > On Fri, Sep 1, 2023 at 1:56 PM Tom Glod via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > Hi Mike, > > > > Sometimes you just don't need uniqueness across all bits, and if you do, > > use v4. > > In my example, the ID is used for clipboard clips, but now I don't have > to > > sort them based on their timestamp. > > Also this improves database performance as the btree is better organized. > > There are a few videos and lots of papers on the topic. > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 1, 2023 at 1:38 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > > why would reducing randomness be desirable in an internet-facing app? > > isn't > > > the whole point to > > > * ensure uniqueness across the entire space > > > * make it nearly impossible to guess an ID? > > > i would think that once you make the id's sequential, you have > eliminated > > > the ability to stop an authorized user from randomly marching through > > your > > > data. > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 1, 2023 at 1:21 PM Tom Glod via use-livecode < > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Folks, > > > > > > > > Sharing this because its useful, and also, more eyeballs on the code > > > makes > > > > sense. > > > > I implemented this with the help of chatGPT. > > > > > > > > This is a handler that can generate v7 UUIDs. > > > > v7 UUIDs work better in databases, because they are not so random, > > > > improving performance. > > > > And they are sequential. > > > > They also match the format of uuid v4 > > > > Also the specs for v7 have not yet been finalized. > > > > > > > > Here it is: > > > > > > > > function CreateUUID pVersion > > > > // This Handler returns a > > > > if pVersion is not 7 then > > > > //Return V4 Random UUID > > > > return uuid("random") > > > > > > > > else if pVersion = 7 then > > > > // return V7 Random yet sequenced UUID > > > > > > > > local tUnixTsMs, tVer, tRandA, tTVar, tRandB, tTheID > > > > -- Get the current timestamp in milliseconds > > > > > > > > put baseConvert(the milliseconds, 10, 16) into tUnixTsMs > > > > put format("%012s", tUnixTsMs) into tUnixTsMs > > > > > > > > // Set the version field to 0b0111 (7) > > > > put "7" into tVer > > > > > > > > // Generate 12 bits of pseudo-random data for RAND A > > > > put random(4095) into tRandA -- 4095 is the maximum value for > 12 > > > bits > > > > put baseConvert(tRandA, 10, 16) into tRandA > > > > put format("%03s", tRandA) into tRandA > > > > > > > > // Set the variant field to 0b10 > > > > put "8" into tTVar -- 0b10 in hexadecimal > > > > > > > > // Generate 62 bits of pseudo-random data for RAND B > > > > repeat 16 times > > > > put baseConvert(random(15), 10, 16) after tRandB -- generate > > one > > > > hex digit at a time > > > > end repeat > > > > > > > > // Combine all the bits to form the UUID > > > > put tUnixTsMs & tVer & tRandA & tTVar & tRandB into tTheID > > > > > > > > // Insert dashes to form the UUID in 8-4-4-4-12 format > > > > put char 1 to 8 of tTheID & "-" & char 9 to 12 of tTheID & "-" > & > > > char > > > > 13 to 16 of tTheID & "-" & char 17 to 20 of tTheID & "-" & char 21 to > > 32 > > > of > > > > tTheID into tTheID > > > > > > > > return tTheID > > > > end if > > > > end CreateUUID tVersion > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > Tom > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > > subscription preferences: > > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > > and did a little diving. > > > And God said, "This is good." > > > _______________________________________________ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From gcanyon at gmail.com Fri Sep 1 17:38:58 2023 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 17:38:58 -0400 Subject: Sort bug In-Reply-To: <9DE07A74-F443-4C9F-AA16-66A2B17AC606@milby7.com> References: <9DE07A74-F443-4C9F-AA16-66A2B17AC606@milby7.com> Message-ID: With 9.6.9 on a mac and a field where the second and third items of each line are numbers: sort lines of fld 1 numeric by item 2 of each + item 3 of each -- works sort lines of fld 1 numeric by value(item 2 of each + item 3 of each) -- works sort lines of fld 1 numeric by merge("[[item 2 of each + item 3 of each]]") -- works and on mouseUp sort lines of fld 1 numeric by sortVal(each) end mouseUp function sortVal S return item 2 of S + item 3 of S end sortVal works. I haven't checked, but I'd guess that performance degrades with each further method. They all work if one or both of the items are empty. If there is an entry that has a non-numeric value in item 2 or 3: sort lines of fld 1 numeric by item 2 of each + item 3 of each -- partially sorts and throws an error sort lines of fld 1 numeric by value(item 2 of each + item 3 of each) -- partially sorts and throws an error sort lines of fld 1 numeric by merge("[[item 2 of each + item 3 of each]]") -- surprisingly, works -- error lines are seemingly sorted with a value of negative infinity? And the function sort also sorts based on a negative infinity value for errors. I'm not sure I'd consider that a bug. And this works: sort lines of fld 1 numeric by merge("") And of course sorting by this function does the same thing: function sortVal S if item 2 of S is not a number or item 3 of S is not a number then return 0 return item 2 of S + item 3 of S end sortVal On Thu, Aug 31, 2023 at 9:30 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I just tried this in 10dp5 and the sort didn’t completely bail (it put the > error value first) but it did error when including inline (as in the bug > report). If I add a try, then it will stop on the throw. Not sure how > much this would slow down execution though. > > function myVal pStr > local tResult > try > put item 1 of pStr + item 2 of pStr into tResult > catch errorVariable > throw "Bad data" > end try > return tResult > end myVal > > Brian Milby > brian at milby7.com > > > On Aug 31, 2023, at 7:53 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > >  > >> On 01/09/2023 00:37, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > >> The function is adding the value of two chunks together and returning > the result. How does that even compute? Unless the + operator is doing > something totally different here… > > > > The code said: > > > >> sort lines tVariable by myVal(each) > >> > >> where the function is for example > >> > >> function myVal pStr > >> return item 1 of pStr + item 2 of pStr > >> end myval > > since it's sorting the lines of the container, it calls the custom > function with each line in turn. The function simply adds together the > first two items from the passed-in line, and returns that. The returned > value is associated with the corresponding line - and then the container is > sorted by those associated values. > > > > This works fine if the input variable is well formatted (i.e. first and > second items of each line are numeric), but fails to give an error when > something goes wrong - such as a non-numeric item. > > > > (and, yes - the dictionary description is misleading, if not simply > incorrect. However, the "Tip" at the end describes the use of ustom > functions). > > > > Alex. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From paul at researchware.com Fri Sep 1 18:02:23 2023 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 18:02:23 -0400 Subject: Pasting text and images together? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <37b7d5c0-03a3-b1ae-1013-d734e715b302@researchware.com> If the App copying the mixed content places it on the clipboard as text and an image vs some mixed type, you may be able to do this Your have the on pasteKey message to trap CONTROL/COMMAND-V and if you have a "Paste" menu item, you control the script for that. the ClipboardData, the fullClipBoardData, and the rawClipboardData arrays (see Dictionary entries for each of these) give you access to the different elements on the clipboard. I epect the rawClipboardData will not really apply to this goal, but whether the ClipboardData or fullClipboardData would be better, I'm not sure Essential for either the pasteKey or menu paste action, you scrip wants to put the ClipboardData["text"] into tMyText -- the text copied to the clipboard put the ClipboardData["image"] into tMyImageData -- the text property of an image object As a test, you may need to write a small test handler on pastekey   local tClipArray, tFullClipArray   put the ClipBoardData into tClipArray   put the fullClipboardData into tFullClipArray   breakpoint end pasteKey Copy mixed data to your clipboard from your 3rd party app, switch to a test stack with the script above (not tested), and press the paste keys for your OS. The IDE debugger should appear and let you look at the arrays tClipArray and tFullClipArray to see how the data was translated from your 3rd party app. On 9/1/2023 3:32 PM, David Epstein via use-livecode wrote: > To clarify my original question: > > I'm not expecting the built-in paste command to handle this task; I'm > wondering if I can script my own paste command to handle it. > > Richmond, I can write a script to "paste" an image by itself (by creating > an image and setting its text to clipboardData["image"]). > > But is there some way I can access both the text and the image that are on > the clipboard after I have copied a combination of those from, e.g., a web > browser? (Pasting to Apple Notes confirms that the clipboard contains both > text and image.) > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Sep 1 18:31:09 2023 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 17:31:09 -0500 Subject: Pasting text and images together? In-Reply-To: <37b7d5c0-03a3-b1ae-1013-d734e715b302@researchware.com> References: <37b7d5c0-03a3-b1ae-1013-d734e715b302@researchware.com> Message-ID: On 9/1/23 5:02 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > If the App copying the mixed content places it on the clipboard as text and an image vs some > mixed type, you may be able to do this > > Your have the on pasteKey message to trap CONTROL/COMMAND-V and if you have a "Paste" menu > item, you control the script for that. Note that LC traps the pastekey message, so you need to suspend the IDE to test it. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Sep 1 18:35:49 2023 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 17:35:49 -0500 Subject: Shutdown on Android In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00cfaadd-a883-5564-a7e1-6d0dafff699f@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/31/23 5:36 PM, Dan Friedman via use-livecode wrote: > Does the shutdown message (or shutdownRequest message) work on Android? I am playing a song using androidStartAudioPlayingInBackground. However, if the app is closed (swiping up to exit it), then the audio continues to play. So, I added an androidStopAudioPlayingInBackground command in the shutdown message to stop playing the audio. But doesn’t seem to work – audio continues to play. > > Any thoughts? Mark Smith reminded me that the suspend and resume messages are now supported on mobile platforms. That might do it. My old brain forgot about that. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From mark at livecode.com Sat Sep 2 05:30:03 2023 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2023 10:30:03 +0100 Subject: Pasting text and images together? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You could poke around the raw clipboard data - this is platform specific (in terms of the keys) but gives a complete reflection of the system clipboard: lock clipboard put the keys of the rawClipboardData unlock clipboard This will dump what raw data types are present - then you can fetch using ‘the rawClipboardData[key]’. Note that you need to lock and unlock the clipboard around ‘raw’ access. Warmest regards, Mark. Sent from my iPhone > On 1 Sep 2023, at 20:33, David Epstein via use-livecode wrote: > > To clarify my original question: > > I'm not expecting the built-in paste command to handle this task; I'm > wondering if I can script my own paste command to handle it. > > Richmond, I can write a script to "paste" an image by itself (by creating > an image and setting its text to clipboardData["image"]). > > But is there some way I can access both the text and the image that are on > the clipboard after I have copied a combination of those from, e.g., a web > browser? (Pasting to Apple Notes confirms that the clipboard contains both > text and image.) > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dfe4 at cornell.edu Sat Sep 2 10:36:48 2023 From: dfe4 at cornell.edu (David Epstein) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2023 10:36:48 -0400 Subject: Pasting text and images together? Message-ID: Many thanks to Paul Dupuis and Mark Waddingham. The script below tries to test their suggestions. Using 10.0.0 dp5 on an Intel Mac, and watching execution after the breakpoint, I get errors at each "try" in the script. So it does not seem that I can write the fullClipboardData or rawClipboardData to an array variable; and it does not seem that I can access any element of the rawClipboardData array. Further advice is welcome. Best wishes, David Epstein *on* a2 *lock* clipboard *put* the keys of the clipboardData into myK1 *put* the keys of the fullClipboardData into myK2 *put* the keys of the rawClipboardData into myK3 *breakpoint* *try* *put* the fullClipboardData into ta2 *catch* myError *put* myError into e2 *end* *try* *try* *put* the rawClipboardData into ta3 *catch* myError *put* myError into e3 *end* *try* *put* 1 into n *repeat* for each line k in myK3 *try* *put* the rawClipboardData[k] into temp[n] *catch* myError *put* myError into e4[n] *end* *try* *add* 1 to n *end* *repeat* *unlock* clipboard *end* a2 From paul at researchware.com Sat Sep 2 11:13:08 2023 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2023 11:13:08 -0400 Subject: Pasting text and images together? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3814cd2a-0f20-2bbb-8783-42fc57e68705@researchware.com> Since my method didn't work, I'd try Marks, namely to put the keys of the clipboard array into a variable to look at on mouseUp   lock clipboard   put the keys of the clipboarddata into tKeys1   put the keys of the fullclipboarddata into tKeys2   put the keys of the rawclipboarddata into tkeys3   breakpoint   unlock clipboard end mouseUp I tested this in LC 10dp6 and it works. Once you see what keys are present with your mixed text and images copied to the clipboard, you can choose which clipboard array and keys to work with to get the data. -- Paul On 9/2/2023 10:36 AM, David Epstein via use-livecode wrote: > Many thanks to Paul Dupuis and Mark Waddingham. The script below tries to > test their suggestions. Using 10.0.0 dp5 on an Intel Mac, and watching > execution after the breakpoint, I get errors at each "try" in the script. > So it does not seem that I can write the fullClipboardData > or rawClipboardData to an array variable; and it does not seem that I can > access any element of the rawClipboardData array. Further advice is > welcome. > > Best wishes, > David Epstein > > *on* a2 > > *lock* clipboard > > *put* the keys of the clipboardData into myK1 > > *put* the keys of the fullClipboardData into myK2 > > *put* the keys of the rawClipboardData into myK3 > > *breakpoint* > > *try* > > *put* the fullClipboardData into ta2 > > *catch* myError > > *put* myError into e2 > > *end* *try* > > *try* > > *put* the rawClipboardData into ta3 > > *catch* myError > > *put* myError into e3 > > *end* *try* > > *put* 1 into n > > *repeat* for each line k in myK3 > > *try* > > *put* the rawClipboardData[k] into temp[n] > > *catch* myError > > *put* myError into e4[n] > > *end* *try* > > *add* 1 to n > > *end* *repeat* > > *unlock* clipboard > > *end* a2 > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dan at clearvisiontech.com Sat Sep 2 11:26:20 2023 From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2023 15:26:20 +0000 Subject: Shutdown on Android In-Reply-To: <00cfaadd-a883-5564-a7e1-6d0dafff699f@hyperactivesw.com> References: <00cfaadd-a883-5564-a7e1-6d0dafff699f@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Jacqueline, Thank you for the reply. I don’t think suspend and resume are going to help… If the app is playing music (in the foreground or the background) and the user brings up the list of running apps and swipes up to remove it, how can I trap that the app is being closed and stop playing music? -Dan From: use-livecode on behalf of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode Date: Friday, September 1, 2023 at 3:37 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: J. Landman Gay Subject: Re: Shutdown on Android On 8/31/23 5:36 PM, Dan Friedman via use-livecode wrote: > Does the shutdown message (or shutdownRequest message) work on Android? I am playing a song using androidStartAudioPlayingInBackground. However, if the app is closed (swiping up to exit it), then the audio continues to play. So, I added an androidStopAudioPlayingInBackground command in the shutdown message to stop playing the audio. But doesn’t seem to work – audio continues to play. > > Any thoughts? Mark Smith reminded me that the suspend and resume messages are now supported on mobile platforms. That might do it. My old brain forgot about that. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From marksmithhfx at gmail.com Sat Sep 2 12:39:22 2023 From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2023 17:39:22 +0100 Subject: Shutdown on Android In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dan, have a look at suspend in the dictionary for LC 10 dp6. It is sent to the current card when the application moves to the background so I think you’ll need an ON SUSPEND handler in the card script. I havent actually tried it yet. Mark Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 2, 2023, at 4:27 PM, Dan Friedman via use-livecode wrote: > > Jacqueline, > > Thank you for the reply. I don’t think suspend and resume are going to help… If the app is playing music (in the foreground or the background) and the user brings up the list of running apps and swipes up to remove it, how can I trap that the app is being closed and stop playing music? > > -Dan > > > > From: use-livecode on behalf of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode > Date: Friday, September 1, 2023 at 3:37 PM > To: How to use LiveCode > Cc: J. Landman Gay > Subject: Re: Shutdown on Android >> On 8/31/23 5:36 PM, Dan Friedman via use-livecode wrote: >> Does the shutdown message (or shutdownRequest message) work on Android? I am playing a song using androidStartAudioPlayingInBackground. However, if the app is closed (swiping up to exit it), then the audio continues to play. So, I added an androidStopAudioPlayingInBackground command in the shutdown message to stop playing the audio. But doesn’t seem to work – audio continues to play. >> >> Any thoughts? > > Mark Smith reminded me that the suspend and resume messages are now supported on mobile > platforms. That might do it. > > My old brain forgot about that. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Sep 2 13:31:32 2023 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2023 12:31:32 -0500 Subject: Shutdown on Android In-Reply-To: References: <00cfaadd-a883-5564-a7e1-6d0dafff699f@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <18a56f32d20.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> In my experience the app remains running when the recent apps are displayed, but if you continue by choosing another app then I think you should get either the shutdowns message or the suspend one. It's worth a try. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On September 2, 2023 10:27:13 AM Dan Friedman wrote: > Jacqueline, > > Thank you for the reply. I dont think suspend and resume are going to > help If the app is playing music (in the foreground or the background) and > the user brings up the list of running apps and swipes up to remove it, how > can I trap that the app is being closed and stop playing music? > > -Dan From dfe4 at cornell.edu Sat Sep 2 17:07:10 2023 From: dfe4 at cornell.edu (David Epstein) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2023 17:07:10 -0400 Subject: Pasting text and images together Message-ID: Paul, getting the keys of the rawClipboardData worked for me too. What didn’t work was trying to read the values. See this part of my script, I hope shown this time without the asterisks gMail added before: lock clipboard … put the keys of the rawClipboardData into myK3 ## THIS WORKS … repeat for each line k in myK3 try put the rawClipboardData[k] into temp[n] ## DOESN’T WORK catch myError put myError into e4[n] ## ERROR IS TRIGGERED end try add 1 to n end repeat unlock clipboard > From: Paul Dupuis > To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Subject: Re: Pasting text and images together? > Message-ID: <3814cd2a-0f20-2bbb-8783-42fc57e68705 at researchware.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed > > Since my method didn't work, I'd try Marks, namely to put the keys of > the clipboard array into a variable to look at > > on mouseUp > ? lock clipboard > ? put the keys of the clipboarddata into tKeys1 > ? put the keys of the fullclipboarddata into tKeys2 > ? put the keys of the rawclipboarddata into tkeys3 > ? breakpoint > ? unlock clipboard > end mouseUp > > I tested this in LC 10dp6 and it works. Once you see what keys are > present with your mixed text and images copied to the clipboard, you can > choose which clipboard array and keys to work with to get the data. > > -- Paul > > >> On 9/2/2023 10:36 AM, David Epstein via use-livecode wrote: >> Many thanks to Paul Dupuis and Mark Waddingham. The script below tries to >> test their suggestions. Using 10.0.0 dp5 on an Intel Mac, and watching >> execution after the breakpoint, I get errors at each "try" in the script. >> So it does not seem that I can write the fullClipboardData >> or rawClipboardData to an array variable; and it does not seem that I can >> access any element of the rawClipboardData array. Further advice is >> welcome. >> >> Best wishes, >> David Epstein >> >> *on* a2 >> >> *lock* clipboard >> >> *put* the keys of the clipboardData into myK1 >> >> *put* the keys of the fullClipboardData into myK2 >> >> *put* the keys of the rawClipboardData into myK3 >> >> *breakpoint* >> >> *try* >> >> *put* the fullClipboardData into ta2 >> >> *catch* myError >> >> *put* myError into e2 >> >> *end* *try* >> >> *try* >> >> *put* the rawClipboardData into ta3 >> >> *catch* myError >> >> *put* myError into e3 >> >> *end* *try* >> >> *put* 1 into n >> >> *repeat* for each line k in myK3 >> >> *try* >> >> *put* the rawClipboardData[k] into temp[n] >> >> *catch* myError >> >> *put* myError into e4[n] >> >> *end* *try* >> >> *add* 1 to n >> >> *end* *repeat* >> >> *unlock* clipboard >> >> *end* a2 From paul at researchware.com Sat Sep 2 18:24:32 2023 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2023 18:24:32 -0400 Subject: Pasting text and images together In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9693e16b-f1b2-dc6f-9d03-a2d1a185f108@researchware.com> Your right. Something about the rawClipboardData fails with an error. Trying the fullClipboardData (code below) works. My guess is that there may be something about the first key (on my Windows system that is "text/html" where the slash is causing an error?  I'd need to look at it further - perhaps skip that key and try others. This may be a bug that may be worth reporting in the LC Quality center. You might get what you want from the fullClipboardData (below) on mouseUp pMouseButton   local n=1   lock clipboard   --   put the keys of the fullClipboardData into myK3  ## THIS WORKS   --   repeat for each line k in myK3     try       put the fullClipboardData[k] into temp[n]  ## DOESNT WORK     catch myError       put myError into e4[n] ## ERROR IS TRIGGERED     end try     add 1 to n   end repeat   unlock clipboard end mouseUp On 9/2/2023 5:07 PM, David Epstein via use-livecode wrote: > Paul, getting the keys of the rawClipboardData worked for me too. What didnt work was trying to read the values. See this part of my script, I hope shown this time without the asterisks gMail added before: > > lock clipboard > > put the keys of the rawClipboardData into myK3 ## THIS WORKS > > repeat for each line k in myK3 > try > put the rawClipboardData[k] into temp[n] ## DOESNT WORK > catch myError > put myError into e4[n] ## ERROR IS TRIGGERED > end try > add 1 to n > end repeat > unlock clipboard > > > >> From: Paul Dupuis >> To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Subject: Re: Pasting text and images together? >> Message-ID: <3814cd2a-0f20-2bbb-8783-42fc57e68705 at researchware.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed >> >> Since my method didn't work, I'd try Marks, namely to put the keys of >> the clipboard array into a variable to look at >> >> on mouseUp >> ? lock clipboard >> ? put the keys of the clipboarddata into tKeys1 >> ? put the keys of the fullclipboarddata into tKeys2 >> ? put the keys of the rawclipboarddata into tkeys3 >> ? breakpoint >> ? unlock clipboard >> end mouseUp >> >> I tested this in LC 10dp6 and it works. Once you see what keys are >> present with your mixed text and images copied to the clipboard, you can >> choose which clipboard array and keys to work with to get the data. >> >> -- Paul >> >> >>> On 9/2/2023 10:36 AM, David Epstein via use-livecode wrote: >>> Many thanks to Paul Dupuis and Mark Waddingham. The script below tries to >>> test their suggestions. Using 10.0.0 dp5 on an Intel Mac, and watching >>> execution after the breakpoint, I get errors at each "try" in the script. >>> So it does not seem that I can write the fullClipboardData >>> or rawClipboardData to an array variable; and it does not seem that I can >>> access any element of the rawClipboardData array. Further advice is >>> welcome. >>> >>> Best wishes, >>> David Epstein >>> >>> *on* a2 >>> >>> *lock* clipboard >>> >>> *put* the keys of the clipboardData into myK1 >>> >>> *put* the keys of the fullClipboardData into myK2 >>> >>> *put* the keys of the rawClipboardData into myK3 >>> >>> *breakpoint* >>> >>> *try* >>> >>> *put* the fullClipboardData into ta2 >>> >>> *catch* myError >>> >>> *put* myError into e2 >>> >>> *end* *try* >>> >>> *try* >>> >>> *put* the rawClipboardData into ta3 >>> >>> *catch* myError >>> >>> *put* myError into e3 >>> >>> *end* *try* >>> >>> *put* 1 into n >>> >>> *repeat* for each line k in myK3 >>> >>> *try* >>> >>> *put* the rawClipboardData[k] into temp[n] >>> >>> *catch* myError >>> >>> *put* myError into e4[n] >>> >>> *end* *try* >>> >>> *add* 1 to n >>> >>> *end* *repeat* >>> >>> *unlock* clipboard >>> >>> *end* a2 > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Sat Sep 2 20:18:18 2023 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au) Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2023 10:18:18 +1000 Subject: sort bug In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <05140c1e777df65d8eddac9079e80d0e1350d3b7@webmail.optusnet.com.au> Geoff Canyon wrote (after a bravura  display of how many different ways there are to do things in LC!) : And the function sort also sorts based on a negative infinity value for errors. I'm not sure I'd consider that a bug. Hmm. I would. The sortKey function should tolerate any sort of run-time error? But anyway that's not the issue. The bug I see is that the sort command exits its containing handler - actually I presume the sortKey function exits to top - without throwing an error, so nothing  beyond that line is executed. This creates a very difficult problem to track down, since the code appears to be executing correctly, until something falls over or a file gets corrupted much later because some stuff never happened.  Of course one should always validate data, particularly if it's not your own data. In this case it was my own data! Moreover I had thought I had checked for invalid cases, just hadn't checked all possible kinds of invalid data (the sortKey was rather more complicated than the one I used for illustration). Neville ------------------------- Email sent using Optus Webmail From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Sat Sep 2 20:59:02 2023 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2023 02:59:02 +0200 Subject: Sorting by item ... of each and item ... of each Message-ID: <02EB4D6F-9825-4D07-8FD3-90A627F20FE4@m-r-d.de> Maybe i do not see the forest for the trees.... I have a tab delimited list which i want to sort. I am using this code to sort it by item 3 and item 2 set the itemdelimiter to tab sort lines of tList numeric by item 3 of each and item 2 of each. But that code does not sort as i expected it. Column 2 is not sorted correctly. The following list is the result. 113254;8420;3016365 113254;8423;3016365 113254;8422;3016365 113254;8420;3016365 113254;8420;3016365 113254;8420;3016365 113254;8421;3016365 203212;8420;3016366 203212;8423;3016366 203212;8422;3016366 203212;8420;3016366 My expectation for example was that for value 3016365 in column 3 the values in Col 2 would be sorted like this 113254;8423;3016365 113254;8422;3016365 113254;8421;3016365 113254;8420;3016365 113254;8420;3016365 113254;8420;3016365 113254;8420;3016365 Tried also 'by item 2 of each and item 3 of each', but the sort result is the same? Am i missing something? Regards, Matthias From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Sat Sep 2 21:03:00 2023 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2023 03:03:00 +0200 Subject: Sorting by item ... of each and item ... of each In-Reply-To: <02EB4D6F-9825-4D07-8FD3-90A627F20FE4@m-r-d.de> References: <02EB4D6F-9825-4D07-8FD3-90A627F20FE4@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <277E785C-4B96-46B5-956F-0346B232B79A@m-r-d.de> Of course my "not working" sort code look like this set the itemdelimiter to ";" sort lines of tList numeric by item 3 of each and item 2 of each. > Am 03.09.2023 um 02:59 schrieb matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de: > > Maybe i do not see the forest for the trees.... > > I have a tab delimited list which i want to sort. I am using this code to sort it by item 3 and item 2 > > set the itemdelimiter to tab > sort lines of tList numeric by item 3 of each and item 2 of each. > > But that code does not sort as i expected it. Column 2 is not sorted correctly. > The following list is the result. > > 113254;8420;3016365 > 113254;8423;3016365 > 113254;8422;3016365 > 113254;8420;3016365 > 113254;8420;3016365 > 113254;8420;3016365 > 113254;8421;3016365 > 203212;8420;3016366 > 203212;8423;3016366 > 203212;8422;3016366 > 203212;8420;3016366 > > > My expectation for example was that for value 3016365 in column 3 the values in Col 2 would be sorted like this > > 113254;8423;3016365 > 113254;8422;3016365 > 113254;8421;3016365 > 113254;8420;3016365 > 113254;8420;3016365 > 113254;8420;3016365 > 113254;8420;3016365 > > Tried also 'by item 2 of each and item 3 of each', but the sort result is the same? > > Am i missing something? > > Regards, > Matthias > From phil at pdslabs.net Sun Sep 3 01:22:39 2023 From: phil at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2023 22:22:39 -0700 Subject: Sorting by item ... of each and item ... of each In-Reply-To: <277E785C-4B96-46B5-956F-0346B232B79A@m-r-d.de> References: <02EB4D6F-9825-4D07-8FD3-90A627F20FE4@m-r-d.de> <277E785C-4B96-46B5-956F-0346B232B79A@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <6c60b460-aba4-eb4e-4702-8944cb9db226@pdslabs.net> I believe this works: on mouseUp     put fld 1 into tList     sort lines of tList by _sortKey(each)     put tList into fld 2 end mouseUp function _sortKey pLine     set the itemDel to ";"     return item 3 of pLine & ";" & item 2 of pLine end _sortKey I realize it isn't as simple as you were looking for, but at least it avoids doing 2 separate sorts. Phil Davis On 9/2/23 6:03 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > Of course my "not working" sort code look like this > > set the itemdelimiter to ";" > sort lines of tList numeric by item 3 of each and item 2 of each. > > > > >> Am 03.09.2023 um 02:59 schriebmatthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de: >> >> Maybe i do not see the forest for the trees.... >> >> I have a tab delimited list which i want to sort. I am using this code to sort it by item 3 and item 2 >> >> set the itemdelimiter to tab >> sort lines of tList numeric by item 3 of each and item 2 of each. >> >> But that code does not sort as i expected it. Column 2 is not sorted correctly. >> The following list is the result. >> >> 113254;8420;3016365 >> 113254;8423;3016365 >> 113254;8422;3016365 >> 113254;8420;3016365 >> 113254;8420;3016365 >> 113254;8420;3016365 >> 113254;8421;3016365 >> 203212;8420;3016366 >> 203212;8423;3016366 >> 203212;8422;3016366 >> 203212;8420;3016366 >> >> >> My expectation for example was that for value 3016365 in column 3 the values in Col 2 would be sorted like this >> >> 113254;8423;3016365 >> 113254;8422;3016365 >> 113254;8421;3016365 >> 113254;8420;3016365 >> 113254;8420;3016365 >> 113254;8420;3016365 >> 113254;8420;3016365 >> >> Tried also 'by item 2 of each and item 3 of each', but the sort result is the same? >> >> Am i missing something? >> >> Regards, >> Matthias >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Phil Davis (503) 307-4363 From merakosp at gmail.com Sun Sep 3 05:26:05 2023 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis m) Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2023 12:26:05 +0300 Subject: Sorting by item ... of each and item ... of each In-Reply-To: <6c60b460-aba4-eb4e-4702-8944cb9db226@pdslabs.net> References: <02EB4D6F-9825-4D07-8FD3-90A627F20FE4@m-r-d.de> <277E785C-4B96-46B5-956F-0346B232B79A@m-r-d.de> <6c60b460-aba4-eb4e-4702-8944cb9db226@pdslabs.net> Message-ID: Hello Matthias, I do not think that the syntax "sort by sortKey1 and sortKey2" is supported If you have multiple sortKeys, you have to do multiple sorts, for example, in your use case, this should work: set the itemdel to ";" sort lines of tList numeric by item 3 of each sort lines of tList numeric by item 2 of each Kind regards, Panos -- On Sun, 3 Sept 2023 at 08:23, Phil Davis via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I believe this works: > > on mouseUp > put fld 1 into tList > sort lines of tList by _sortKey(each) > put tList into fld 2 > end mouseUp > > > function _sortKey pLine > set the itemDel to ";" > return item 3 of pLine & ";" & item 2 of pLine > end _sortKey > > > I realize it isn't as simple as you were looking for, but at least it > avoids doing 2 separate sorts. > > Phil Davis > > > > On 9/2/23 6:03 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > > Of course my "not working" sort code look like this > > > > set the itemdelimiter to ";" > > sort lines of tList numeric by item 3 of each and item 2 of each. > > > > > > > > > >> Am 03.09.2023 um 02:59 schriebmatthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de: > >> > >> Maybe i do not see the forest for the trees.... > >> > >> I have a tab delimited list which i want to sort. I am using this code > to sort it by item 3 and item 2 > >> > >> set the itemdelimiter to tab > >> sort lines of tList numeric by item 3 of each and item 2 of each. > >> > >> But that code does not sort as i expected it. Column 2 is not sorted > correctly. > >> The following list is the result. > >> > >> 113254;8420;3016365 > >> 113254;8423;3016365 > >> 113254;8422;3016365 > >> 113254;8420;3016365 > >> 113254;8420;3016365 > >> 113254;8420;3016365 > >> 113254;8421;3016365 > >> 203212;8420;3016366 > >> 203212;8423;3016366 > >> 203212;8422;3016366 > >> 203212;8420;3016366 > >> > >> > >> My expectation for example was that for value 3016365 in column 3 the > values in Col 2 would be sorted like this > >> > >> 113254;8423;3016365 > >> 113254;8422;3016365 > >> 113254;8421;3016365 > >> 113254;8420;3016365 > >> 113254;8420;3016365 > >> 113254;8420;3016365 > >> 113254;8420;3016365 > >> > >> Tried also 'by item 2 of each and item 3 of each', but the sort > result is the same? > >> > >> Am i missing something? > >> > >> Regards, > >> Matthias > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > -- > Phil Davis > (503) 307-4363 > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From mark at livecode.com Sun Sep 3 05:49:30 2023 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2023 10:49:30 +0100 Subject: Sorting by item ... of each and item ... of each In-Reply-To: References: <02EB4D6F-9825-4D07-8FD3-90A627F20FE4@m-r-d.de> <277E785C-4B96-46B5-956F-0346B232B79A@m-r-d.de> <6c60b460-aba4-eb4e-4702-8944cb9db226@pdslabs.net> Message-ID: On 2023-09-03 10:26, panagiotis m via use-livecode wrote: > Hello Matthias, > > I do not think that the syntax "sort by sortKey1 and > sortKey2" > is supported Heh technically it 'is' - and does do something but it won't be what you expected... So the syntax for sort in this case is: sort by This works by iterating over the elements in , passing each through the expression to generate a sort key list, sorting that list and then reordering the original list. Expressions can contain the boolean 'and' operator, so: sort by X and Y Means that the sort key is evaluated as 'X and Y' for each element - meaning sort ends up sorting a list of 'true' and 'false' values. As Panos says, if you want to sort by separate fields with decreasing priority you need to do multiple sorts from least priority to most - this works because 'sort' is stable (if two elements compare the same, then the order of them in the output list is the same as the first). The alternative is to work out a sort expression which combines the two parts of the element you want to sort so that the sort keys sort in that order. This can be quite tricky, but (for example) - let's say your container has elements of the form: , So you want things in the 'obvious' sorted order - then you could use: sort tSections ascending text by format("%08d%08d", item 1 of each, item 2 of each) Here the sortkey is defined so that the text sort of the sort keys is that same as sorting first by sub-section number and then by section number. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Build Amazing Things From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Sun Sep 3 08:17:18 2023 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2023 14:17:18 +0200 Subject: Sorting by item ... of each and item ... of each In-Reply-To: <6c60b460-aba4-eb4e-4702-8944cb9db226@pdslabs.net> References: <02EB4D6F-9825-4D07-8FD3-90A627F20FE4@m-r-d.de> <277E785C-4B96-46B5-956F-0346B232B79A@m-r-d.de> <6c60b460-aba4-eb4e-4702-8944cb9db226@pdslabs.net> Message-ID: Thanks Phil, i will try. > Am 03.09.2023 um 07:22 schrieb Phil Davis via use-livecode : > > I believe this works: > > on mouseUp > put fld 1 into tList > sort lines of tList by _sortKey(each) > put tList into fld 2 > end mouseUp > > > function _sortKey pLine > set the itemDel to ";" > return item 3 of pLine & ";" & item 2 of pLine > end _sortKey > > > I realize it isn't as simple as you were looking for, but at least it avoids doing 2 separate sorts. > > Phil Davis > > > > On 9/2/23 6:03 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: >> Of course my "not working" sort code look like this >> >> set the itemdelimiter to ";" >> sort lines of tList numeric by item 3 of each and item 2 of each. >> >> >> >> >>> Am 03.09.2023 um 02:59 schriebmatthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de: >>> >>> Maybe i do not see the forest for the trees.... >>> >>> I have a tab delimited list which i want to sort. I am using this code to sort it by item 3 and item 2 >>> >>> set the itemdelimiter to tab >>> sort lines of tList numeric by item 3 of each and item 2 of each. >>> >>> But that code does not sort as i expected it. Column 2 is not sorted correctly. >>> The following list is the result. >>> >>> 113254;8420;3016365 >>> 113254;8423;3016365 >>> 113254;8422;3016365 >>> 113254;8420;3016365 >>> 113254;8420;3016365 >>> 113254;8420;3016365 >>> 113254;8421;3016365 >>> 203212;8420;3016366 >>> 203212;8423;3016366 >>> 203212;8422;3016366 >>> 203212;8420;3016366 >>> >>> >>> My expectation for example was that for value 3016365 in column 3 the values in Col 2 would be sorted like this >>> >>> 113254;8423;3016365 >>> 113254;8422;3016365 >>> 113254;8421;3016365 >>> 113254;8420;3016365 >>> 113254;8420;3016365 >>> 113254;8420;3016365 >>> 113254;8420;3016365 >>> >>> Tried also 'by item 2 of each and item 3 of each', but the sort result is the same? >>> >>> Am i missing something? >>> >>> Regards, >>> Matthias >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > -- > Phil Davis > (503) 307-4363 > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Sun Sep 3 08:20:51 2023 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2023 14:20:51 +0200 Subject: Sorting by item ... of each and item ... of each In-Reply-To: References: <02EB4D6F-9825-4D07-8FD3-90A627F20FE4@m-r-d.de> <277E785C-4B96-46B5-956F-0346B232B79A@m-r-d.de> <6c60b460-aba4-eb4e-4702-8944cb9db226@pdslabs.net> Message-ID: <4667FA3F-E267-4C97-A1F0-706D0A3A3DA6@m-r-d.de> Thanks Panos, you are right. ;) While reading your answer i remembered that i have done this with 2 separate sorts. I really don't know how i thought to use by sortKey1 and sortKey2 But at least the script editor did not return an error. Should not work so late in the night. Matthias > Am 03.09.2023 um 11:26 schrieb panagiotis m via use-livecode : > > Hello Matthias, > > I do not think that the syntax "sort by sortKey1 and sortKey2" > is supported > > If you have multiple sortKeys, you have to do multiple sorts, for example, > in your use case, this should work: > > set the itemdel to ";" > sort lines of tList numeric by item 3 of each > sort lines of tList numeric by item 2 of each > > Kind regards, > Panos > -- > > On Sun, 3 Sept 2023 at 08:23, Phil Davis via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> I believe this works: >> >> on mouseUp >> put fld 1 into tList >> sort lines of tList by _sortKey(each) >> put tList into fld 2 >> end mouseUp >> >> >> function _sortKey pLine >> set the itemDel to ";" >> return item 3 of pLine & ";" & item 2 of pLine >> end _sortKey >> >> >> I realize it isn't as simple as you were looking for, but at least it >> avoids doing 2 separate sorts. >> >> Phil Davis >> >> >> >> On 9/2/23 6:03 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: >>> Of course my "not working" sort code look like this >>> >>> set the itemdelimiter to ";" >>> sort lines of tList numeric by item 3 of each and item 2 of each. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> Am 03.09.2023 um 02:59 schriebmatthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de: >>>> >>>> Maybe i do not see the forest for the trees.... >>>> >>>> I have a tab delimited list which i want to sort. I am using this code >> to sort it by item 3 and item 2 >>>> >>>> set the itemdelimiter to tab >>>> sort lines of tList numeric by item 3 of each and item 2 of each. >>>> >>>> But that code does not sort as i expected it. Column 2 is not sorted >> correctly. >>>> The following list is the result. >>>> >>>> 113254;8420;3016365 >>>> 113254;8423;3016365 >>>> 113254;8422;3016365 >>>> 113254;8420;3016365 >>>> 113254;8420;3016365 >>>> 113254;8420;3016365 >>>> 113254;8421;3016365 >>>> 203212;8420;3016366 >>>> 203212;8423;3016366 >>>> 203212;8422;3016366 >>>> 203212;8420;3016366 >>>> >>>> >>>> My expectation for example was that for value 3016365 in column 3 the >> values in Col 2 would be sorted like this >>>> >>>> 113254;8423;3016365 >>>> 113254;8422;3016365 >>>> 113254;8421;3016365 >>>> 113254;8420;3016365 >>>> 113254;8420;3016365 >>>> 113254;8420;3016365 >>>> 113254;8420;3016365 >>>> >>>> Tried also 'by item 2 of each and item 3 of each', but the sort >> result is the same? >>>> >>>> Am i missing something? >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Matthias >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> -- >> Phil Davis >> (503) 307-4363 >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Sun Sep 3 08:29:13 2023 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2023 14:29:13 +0200 Subject: Sorting by item ... of each and item ... of each In-Reply-To: References: <02EB4D6F-9825-4D07-8FD3-90A627F20FE4@m-r-d.de> <277E785C-4B96-46B5-956F-0346B232B79A@m-r-d.de> <6c60b460-aba4-eb4e-4702-8944cb9db226@pdslabs.net> Message-ID: <390CF75E-1838-4E82-A430-834BF1CD38CF@m-r-d.de> Hello Mark, thanks for explanation and also for your solution. I will try. Maybe i should get my book "regular expressions" from Jeffrey E.F.Friedl from the shelf and should finish reading it, so i could make use of regular expressions in Livecode more often. Regards, Matthias > Am 03.09.2023 um 11:49 schrieb Mark Waddingham via use-livecode : > > On 2023-09-03 10:26, panagiotis m via use-livecode wrote: >> Hello Matthias, >> I do not think that the syntax "sort by sortKey1 and sortKey2" >> is supported > > Heh technically it 'is' - and does do something but it won't be what you expected... > > So the syntax for sort in this case is: > > sort by > > This works by iterating over the elements in , passing each through the expression to generate a sort key list, sorting that list and then reordering the original list. > > Expressions can contain the boolean 'and' operator, so: > > sort by X and Y > > Means that the sort key is evaluated as 'X and Y' for each element - meaning sort ends up sorting a list of 'true' and 'false' values. > > As Panos says, if you want to sort by separate fields with decreasing priority you need to do multiple sorts from least priority to most - this works because 'sort' is stable (if two elements compare the same, then the order of them in the output list is the same as the first). > > The alternative is to work out a sort expression which combines the two parts of the element you want to sort so that the sort keys sort in that order. This can be quite tricky, but (for example) - let's say your container has elements of the form: > > , > > So you want things in the 'obvious' sorted order - then you could use: > > sort tSections ascending text by format("%08d%08d", item 1 of each, item 2 of each) > > Here the sortkey is defined so that the text sort of the sort keys is that same as sorting first by sub-section number and then by section number. > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > > -- > Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Build Amazing Things > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From harrison at all-auctions.com Sun Sep 3 14:18:42 2023 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com) Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2023 14:18:42 -0400 Subject: Installing LC on Ubuntu? In-Reply-To: <4667FA3F-E267-4C97-A1F0-706D0A3A3DA6@m-r-d.de> References: <02EB4D6F-9825-4D07-8FD3-90A627F20FE4@m-r-d.de> <277E785C-4B96-46B5-956F-0346B232B79A@m-r-d.de> <6c60b460-aba4-eb4e-4702-8944cb9db226@pdslabs.net> <4667FA3F-E267-4C97-A1F0-706D0A3A3DA6@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: Hi there, I have been trying to install LiveCode on the latest “Jellyfish” version of Ubuntu by following the directions provided by LiveCode lesson: https://lessons.livecode.com/m/2571/l/148050-installing-livecode-on-linux I have found this lesson is now out of date and I am unable to successfully install LiveCode as a result. I can’t get the installer to execute. Can someone please kindly update the instructions so we can get the installer to work again? Thanks, Rick From ahsoftware at sonic.net Sun Sep 3 14:42:01 2023 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2023 11:42:01 -0700 Subject: Installing LC on Ubuntu? In-Reply-To: References: <02EB4D6F-9825-4D07-8FD3-90A627F20FE4@m-r-d.de> <277E785C-4B96-46B5-956F-0346B232B79A@m-r-d.de> <6c60b460-aba4-eb4e-4702-8944cb9db226@pdslabs.net> <4667FA3F-E267-4C97-A1F0-706D0A3A3DA6@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: On 9/3/23 11:18, harrison--- via use-livecode wrote: > Hi there, > > I have been trying to install LiveCode on > the latest Jellyfish version of Ubuntu > by following the directions provided by > LiveCode lesson: > > https://lessons.livecode.com/m/2571/l/148050-installing-livecode-on-linux > > I have found this lesson is now out of date and I am unable to > successfully install LiveCode as a result. I cant get the installer > to execute. > > Can someone please kindly update the instructions so we can > get the installer to work again? After setting the executable bit you should be able to just double-click the installer in the Downloads folder. Best to install for just you instead of the default "all users" to avoid having to use sudo. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From harrison at all-auctions.com Sun Sep 3 15:50:34 2023 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com) Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2023 15:50:34 -0400 Subject: Installing LC on Ubuntu? In-Reply-To: References: <02EB4D6F-9825-4D07-8FD3-90A627F20FE4@m-r-d.de> <277E785C-4B96-46B5-956F-0346B232B79A@m-r-d.de> <6c60b460-aba4-eb4e-4702-8944cb9db226@pdslabs.net> <4667FA3F-E267-4C97-A1F0-706D0A3A3DA6@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: Hi Mark, Thanks, I found that worked. I was misled by the old LiveCode lesson. Rick > On Sep 3, 2023, at 2:42 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > > After setting the executable bit you should be able to just double-click the installer in the Downloads folder. Best to install for just you instead of the default "all users" to avoid having to use sudo. From heather at livecode.com Mon Sep 4 06:13:02 2023 From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine) Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2023 11:13:02 +0100 Subject: Installing LC on Ubuntu? In-Reply-To: References: <02EB4D6F-9825-4D07-8FD3-90A627F20FE4@m-r-d.de> <277E785C-4B96-46B5-956F-0346B232B79A@m-r-d.de> <6c60b460-aba4-eb4e-4702-8944cb9db226@pdslabs.net> <4667FA3F-E267-4C97-A1F0-706D0A3A3DA6@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <8C1A07BA-268E-4C14-9B02-799B605142EF@livecode.com> Rick - could you leave a comment on the lesson? Then I can add it to the queue to be corrected/updated as needed. I could (and probably will) just add it to the queue anyway but I'd like to encourage people to comment on the lessons where they find issues, as we routinely address these and it helps to keep the lessons up to date. Best Regards, Heather Heather Laine Customer Services Manager LiveCode Ltd www.livecode.com > On 3 Sep 2023, at 20:50, harrison--- via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Mark, > > Thanks, I found that worked. > > I was misled by the old LiveCode lesson. > > Rick > >> On Sep 3, 2023, at 2:42 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: >> >> After setting the executable bit you should be able to just double-click the installer in the Downloads folder. Best to install for just you instead of the default "all users" to avoid having to use sudo. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From harrison at all-auctions.com Mon Sep 4 13:37:35 2023 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com) Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2023 13:37:35 -0400 Subject: Installing LC on Ubuntu? In-Reply-To: <8C1A07BA-268E-4C14-9B02-799B605142EF@livecode.com> References: <02EB4D6F-9825-4D07-8FD3-90A627F20FE4@m-r-d.de> <277E785C-4B96-46B5-956F-0346B232B79A@m-r-d.de> <6c60b460-aba4-eb4e-4702-8944cb9db226@pdslabs.net> <4667FA3F-E267-4C97-A1F0-706D0A3A3DA6@m-r-d.de> <8C1A07BA-268E-4C14-9B02-799B605142EF@livecode.com> Message-ID: <4817D340-861F-47AC-9071-08DC60E68FD8@all-auctions.com> Hi Heather, Done! Enjoy your day. Rick > On Sep 4, 2023, at 6:13 AM, Heather Laine via use-livecode wrote: > > Rick - could you leave a comment on the lesson? Then I can add it to the queue to be corrected/updated as needed. > > I could (and probably will) just add it to the queue anyway but I'd like to encourage people to comment on the lessons where they find issues, as we routinely address these and it helps to keep the lessons up to date. > > Best Regards, > > Heather > > Heather Laine > Customer Services Manager > LiveCode Ltd > www.livecode.com > > > >> On 3 Sep 2023, at 20:50, harrison--- via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Hi Mark, >> >> Thanks, I found that worked. >> >> I was misled by the old LiveCode lesson. >> >> Rick >> >>> On Sep 3, 2023, at 2:42 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> After setting the executable bit you should be able to just double-click the installer in the Downloads folder. Best to install for just you instead of the default "all users" to avoid having to use sudo. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dfe4 at cornell.edu Mon Sep 4 15:36:13 2023 From: dfe4 at cornell.edu (David Epstein) Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2023 15:36:13 -0400 Subject: Pasting text and images together Message-ID: <379311CB-470A-466A-84A1-F0A56BE56FAB@cornell.edu> I do not know how my problems accessing the rawClipboardData were overcome, but I succeeded in reading the array values there. So I was able to address my original question of how to reconstruct in LiveCode a combination of text and image copied from another program. Conclusion thus far: no success. If anyone is interested in this and might have some further suggestions, read on. When I use the control key to invoke from the contextual menu “copy image” on a web page, the fullClipboardData[“image”] gets a string of humanly unintelligible characters that, when used as the text of a LiveCode image object, shows the copied image. I did this for the picture of Robert Cailliau on webpage https://livecode.com/core-benefits-of-livecode/. Call this String A. To see how this information might be stored when I have copied both text and image, I selected from the word before to the word after that same picture, chose “Copy,” and then inspected the rawClipboardData["com.apple.flat-rtfd”], which seemed the most promising candidate of the various clipboardData array values. Call this String B. Something that looks kind of like String A appears in String B, but it is not the same. At char 4097 of String B I see the first few characters of the beginning of String A, and think this might define the PNG data to follow. But what follows is not the same as String A. Here’s the start of string A: âPNG IHDR,,y}éusRGBÆŒÈDeXIfMM*ái††,†,ÿ`ÇÁ at IDATxÏΩ And here’s char 4097ff of String B; âPNG IHDR,,y}éu IDATxúÏΩ{¨mYv÷˜sƵˆ„ÏÛ∏˜ú{Îvuuwuπ‹.€Ìˆ«!,d«2$qä¯a«9éCj,d°!dÅ"EâàB So my hope that String A could somehow be extracted from String B and used to “paste” the included image was disappointed. David Epstein From paul at researchware.com Mon Sep 4 16:03:43 2023 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2023 16:03:43 -0400 Subject: Pasting text and images together In-Reply-To: <379311CB-470A-466A-84A1-F0A56BE56FAB@cornell.edu> References: <379311CB-470A-466A-84A1-F0A56BE56FAB@cornell.edu> Message-ID: <397df2f2-80e0-82c7-8430-2ac3d93c3bf9@researchware.com> Do you have access to the Apple Developer web site? A search didn't tell me much but I find the side terrible useless. Following a bunch of variable type definitions I wandered to this page: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/foundation/nsattributedstring/1530578-rtfd Which also seemed useless to me. I was hoping to find some documentation that explicitly explained the format, rather than Apple API's to access the format. The Wikipedia entry seemed more helpful (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Text_Format_Directory) - it appears teh format is a "bundle" (or folder) of files, including an RTF file and how ever many media files. While I don't fully follow this Stackoverflow discussion (https://stackoverflow.com/questions/18722314/how-to-get-rtf-contents-from-uipasteboard-after-uiwebview-copy) it appears the clipboard contents is UTF8 encoded, so perhaps doing a textDecode of UTF8 and then looking at the result may be helpful? On 9/4/2023 3:36 PM, David Epstein via use-livecode wrote: > I do not know how my problems accessing the rawClipboardData were overcome, but I succeeded in reading the array values there. So I was able to address my original question of how to reconstruct in LiveCode a combination of text and image copied from another program. Conclusion thus far: no success. If anyone is interested in this and might have some further suggestions, read on. > > When I use the control key to invoke from the contextual menu copy image on a web page, the fullClipboardData[image] gets a string of humanly unintelligible characters that, when used as the text of a LiveCode image object, shows the copied image. I did this for the picture of Robert Cailliau on webpage https://livecode.com/core-benefits-of-livecode/. Call this String A. > > To see how this information might be stored when I have copied both text and image, I selected from the word before to the word after that same picture, chose Copy, and then inspected the rawClipboardData["com.apple.flat-rtfd], which seemed the most promising candidate of the various clipboardData array values. Call this String B. > > Something that looks kind of like String A appears in String B, but it is not the same. > > At char 4097 of String B I see the first few characters of the beginning of String A, and think this might define the PNG data to follow. But what follows is not the same as String A. > > Heres the start of string A: > > PNG > IHDR,,y}usRGBDeXIfMM*i,,`@IDATx > > And heres char 4097ff of String B; > > PNG > IHDR,,y}u IDATx{mYvs{vuuwu.!,d2$qa9Cj,d!d"EB > > So my hope that String A could somehow be extracted from String B and used to paste the included image was disappointed. > > David Epstein > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From craig at starfirelighting.com Tue Sep 5 10:29:49 2023 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2023 10:29:49 -0400 Subject: Sorting by item ... of each and item ... of each In-Reply-To: <390CF75E-1838-4E82-A430-834BF1CD38CF@m-r-d.de> References: <02EB4D6F-9825-4D07-8FD3-90A627F20FE4@m-r-d.de> <277E785C-4B96-46B5-956F-0346B232B79A@m-r-d.de> <6c60b460-aba4-eb4e-4702-8944cb9db226@pdslabs.net> <390CF75E-1838-4E82-A430-834BF1CD38CF@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <31967C70-63A6-4460-B43C-B6B9E11BFC96@starfirelighting.com> I may be simply misunderstanding… Since HC days, one could concatenate sort criteria using the “&” character, and obtain multiple stable sorts in one go. In LC as well, since given, in a field 1: 231 312 123 213 321 132 and in a button somewhere: on mouseUp get fld 1 sort it numeric by char 1 of each & char 3 of each answer it end mouseUp We get: 132 123 231 213 321 312 Craig > On Sep 3, 2023, at 8:29 AM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > > Hello Mark, > > thanks for explanation and also for your solution. I will try. > > Maybe i should get my book "regular expressions" from Jeffrey E.F.Friedl from the shelf and should finish reading it, so i could make use of regular expressions in Livecode more often. > > Regards, > Matthias > >> Am 03.09.2023 um 11:49 schrieb Mark Waddingham via use-livecode : >> >> On 2023-09-03 10:26, panagiotis m via use-livecode wrote: >>> Hello Matthias, >>> I do not think that the syntax "sort by sortKey1 and sortKey2" >>> is supported >> >> Heh technically it 'is' - and does do something but it won't be what you expected... >> >> So the syntax for sort in this case is: >> >> sort by >> >> This works by iterating over the elements in , passing each through the expression to generate a sort key list, sorting that list and then reordering the original list. >> >> Expressions can contain the boolean 'and' operator, so: >> >> sort by X and Y >> >> Means that the sort key is evaluated as 'X and Y' for each element - meaning sort ends up sorting a list of 'true' and 'false' values. >> >> As Panos says, if you want to sort by separate fields with decreasing priority you need to do multiple sorts from least priority to most - this works because 'sort' is stable (if two elements compare the same, then the order of them in the output list is the same as the first). >> >> The alternative is to work out a sort expression which combines the two parts of the element you want to sort so that the sort keys sort in that order. This can be quite tricky, but (for example) - let's say your container has elements of the form: >> >> , >> >> So you want things in the 'obvious' sorted order - then you could use: >> >> sort tSections ascending text by format("%08d%08d", item 1 of each, item 2 of each) >> >> Here the sortkey is defined so that the text sort of the sort keys is that same as sorting first by sub-section number and then by section number. >> >> Warmest Regards, >> >> Mark. >> >> -- >> Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ >> LiveCode: Build Amazing Things >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From craig at starfirelighting.com Tue Sep 5 12:53:45 2023 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2023 12:53:45 -0400 Subject: Sorting by item ... of each and item ... of each In-Reply-To: <31967C70-63A6-4460-B43C-B6B9E11BFC96@starfirelighting.com> References: <02EB4D6F-9825-4D07-8FD3-90A627F20FE4@m-r-d.de> <277E785C-4B96-46B5-956F-0346B232B79A@m-r-d.de> <6c60b460-aba4-eb4e-4702-8944cb9db226@pdslabs.net> <390CF75E-1838-4E82-A430-834BF1CD38CF@m-r-d.de> <31967C70-63A6-4460-B43C-B6B9E11BFC96@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: <9177DCD1-D088-4747-B82B-16897037AD55@starfirelighting.com> I should have given better context. I one only sorts the same field numeric, one gets: 123 132 213 231 312 321 Which is correct given the list of whole numbers in question. The stable sort allows one to then sort by char 3 of each, to get the result in the “compound” sort below. So am I missing something in all this? Craig > On Sep 5, 2023, at 10:29 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: > > I may be simply misunderstanding… > > Since HC days, one could concatenate sort criteria using the “&” character, and obtain multiple stable sorts in one go. In LC as well, since given, in a field 1: > > 231 > > 312 > > 123 > > 213 > > 321 > > 132 > > and in a button somewhere: > > on mouseUp > > get fld 1 > > sort it numeric by char 1 of each & char 3 of each > > answer it > > end mouseUp > > We get: > > 132 > > 123 > > 231 > > 213 > > 321 > > 312 > > > > Craig > > > > >> On Sep 3, 2023, at 8:29 AM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Hello Mark, >> >> thanks for explanation and also for your solution. I will try. >> >> Maybe i should get my book "regular expressions" from Jeffrey E.F.Friedl from the shelf and should finish reading it, so i could make use of regular expressions in Livecode more often. >> >> Regards, >> Matthias >> >>> Am 03.09.2023 um 11:49 schrieb Mark Waddingham via use-livecode : >>> >>> On 2023-09-03 10:26, panagiotis m via use-livecode wrote: >>>> Hello Matthias, >>>> I do not think that the syntax "sort by sortKey1 and sortKey2" >>>> is supported >>> >>> Heh technically it 'is' - and does do something but it won't be what you expected... >>> >>> So the syntax for sort in this case is: >>> >>> sort by >>> >>> This works by iterating over the elements in , passing each through the expression to generate a sort key list, sorting that list and then reordering the original list. >>> >>> Expressions can contain the boolean 'and' operator, so: >>> >>> sort by X and Y >>> >>> Means that the sort key is evaluated as 'X and Y' for each element - meaning sort ends up sorting a list of 'true' and 'false' values. >>> >>> As Panos says, if you want to sort by separate fields with decreasing priority you need to do multiple sorts from least priority to most - this works because 'sort' is stable (if two elements compare the same, then the order of them in the output list is the same as the first). >>> >>> The alternative is to work out a sort expression which combines the two parts of the element you want to sort so that the sort keys sort in that order. This can be quite tricky, but (for example) - let's say your container has elements of the form: >>> >>> , >>> >>> So you want things in the 'obvious' sorted order - then you could use: >>> >>> sort tSections ascending text by format("%08d%08d", item 1 of each, item 2 of each) >>> >>> Here the sortkey is defined so that the text sort of the sort keys is that same as sorting first by sub-section number and then by section number. >>> >>> Warmest Regards, >>> >>> Mark. >>> >>> -- >>> Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ >>> LiveCode: Build Amazing Things >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Tue Sep 5 17:05:50 2023 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2023 17:05:50 -0400 Subject: Sorting by item ... of each and item ... of each In-Reply-To: <277E785C-4B96-46B5-956F-0346B232B79A@m-r-d.de> References: <02EB4D6F-9825-4D07-8FD3-90A627F20FE4@m-r-d.de> <277E785C-4B96-46B5-956F-0346B232B79A@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <00e801d9e03c$c343f290$49cbd7b0$@net> You can at least detect if the sorting function has failed using a global variable. global s1 command test1 local t1 --put "10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1" into t1 -- This line will not show an error put "10,9,8,7a,6,5,4,3,2,1" into t1 -- This line will show an error put 0 into s1 sort items of t1 numeric by f1(each) if s1 <> the number of items in t1 then answer "Sort Function failed" put t1 & cr & s1 end test1 function f1 pEach local tEach put pEach into tEach add 1 to tEach add 1 to s1 return tEach end f1 Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of matthias rebbe via use-livecode Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2023 9:03 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Subject: Re: Sorting by item ... of each and item ... of each Of course my "not working" sort code look like this set the itemdelimiter to ";" sort lines of tList numeric by item 3 of each and item 2 of each. > Am 03.09.2023 um 02:59 schrieb matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de: > > Maybe i do not see the forest for the trees.... > > I have a tab delimited list which i want to sort. I am using this code to sort it by item 3 and item 2 > > set the itemdelimiter to tab > sort lines of tList numeric by item 3 of each and item 2 of each. > > But that code does not sort as i expected it. Column 2 is not sorted correctly. > The following list is the result. > > 113254;8420;3016365 > 113254;8423;3016365 > 113254;8422;3016365 > 113254;8420;3016365 > 113254;8420;3016365 > 113254;8420;3016365 > 113254;8421;3016365 > 203212;8420;3016366 > 203212;8423;3016366 > 203212;8422;3016366 > 203212;8420;3016366 > > > My expectation for example was that for value 3016365 in column 3 the values in Col 2 would be sorted like this > > 113254;8423;3016365 > 113254;8422;3016365 > 113254;8421;3016365 > 113254;8420;3016365 > 113254;8420;3016365 > 113254;8420;3016365 > 113254;8420;3016365 > > Tried also 'by item 2 of each and item 3 of each', but the sort result is the same? > > Am i missing something? > > Regards, > Matthias > _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From craig at starfirelighting.com Wed Sep 6 08:56:31 2023 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2023 08:56:31 -0400 Subject: Sorting by item ... of each and item ... of each In-Reply-To: <00e801d9e03c$c343f290$49cbd7b0$@net> References: <02EB4D6F-9825-4D07-8FD3-90A627F20FE4@m-r-d.de> <277E785C-4B96-46B5-956F-0346B232B79A@m-r-d.de> <00e801d9e03c$c343f290$49cbd7b0$@net> Message-ID: <39D6353E-0457-4D95-926E-4AD2DDDD04FF@starfirelighting.com> Matthias. I do not have your original data. But try using “&” instead of “and”. Craig > On Sep 5, 2023, at 5:05 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote: > > You can at least detect if the sorting function has failed using a global > variable. > > global s1 > > command test1 > local t1 > > --put "10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1" into t1 -- This line will not show an error > put "10,9,8,7a,6,5,4,3,2,1" into t1 -- This line will show an error > > put 0 into s1 > sort items of t1 numeric by f1(each) > > if s1 <> the number of items in t1 then answer "Sort Function failed" > put t1 & cr & s1 > > end test1 > > > function f1 pEach > local tEach > put pEach into tEach > add 1 to tEach > add 1 to s1 > return tEach > end f1 > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf > Of matthias rebbe via use-livecode > Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2023 9:03 PM > To: How to use LiveCode > Cc: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de > Subject: Re: Sorting by item ... of each and item ... of each > > Of course my "not working" sort code look like this > > set the itemdelimiter to ";" > sort lines of tList numeric by item 3 of each and item 2 of each. > > > > >> Am 03.09.2023 um 02:59 schrieb matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de: >> >> Maybe i do not see the forest for the trees.... >> >> I have a tab delimited list which i want to sort. I am using this code to > sort it by item 3 and item 2 >> >> set the itemdelimiter to tab >> sort lines of tList numeric by item 3 of each and item 2 of each. >> >> But that code does not sort as i expected it. Column 2 is not sorted > correctly. >> The following list is the result. >> >> 113254;8420;3016365 >> 113254;8423;3016365 >> 113254;8422;3016365 >> 113254;8420;3016365 >> 113254;8420;3016365 >> 113254;8420;3016365 >> 113254;8421;3016365 >> 203212;8420;3016366 >> 203212;8423;3016366 >> 203212;8422;3016366 >> 203212;8420;3016366 >> >> >> My expectation for example was that for value 3016365 in column 3 the > values in Col 2 would be sorted like this >> >> 113254;8423;3016365 >> 113254;8422;3016365 >> 113254;8421;3016365 >> 113254;8420;3016365 >> 113254;8420;3016365 >> 113254;8420;3016365 >> 113254;8420;3016365 >> >> Tried also 'by item 2 of each and item 3 of each', but the sort result > is the same? >> >> Am i missing something? >> >> Regards, >> Matthias >> > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jbv at souslelogo.com Wed Sep 6 09:22:20 2023 From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com) Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2023 09:22:20 -0400 Subject: LC server, on-rev and time zones Message-ID: <7592a0ecd9699f74cea485097d07cbaa@souslelogo.com> Hi list, How do you handle different time zones in server scripts ? For example, I and my clients are in Europe, so dates and times need to be consistent with the local time zone. But on-rev servers are located in the US East coast, so there is presently a 6 hours difference. Furthermore, switching from summer time to winter time (and back) occur at different dates in Europe and North America... How do you guys manage to keep everything consistent all year round ? Thanks you in advance. jbv From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Sep 6 09:39:12 2023 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2023 15:39:12 +0200 Subject: LC server, on-rev and time zones In-Reply-To: <7592a0ecd9699f74cea485097d07cbaa@souslelogo.com> References: <7592a0ecd9699f74cea485097d07cbaa@souslelogo.com> Message-ID: <5EE83064-0FA9-4D0C-87B0-DD2AC7F18FCD@m-r-d.de> You could try to set the $TZ variable. I did not try on On-Rev/LivecodeHosting, but on a HostM Server which also has Livecode Server installed. This script here for example would set the timezone first to Germany and outputs the current time and then for New York. <?lc put "Europe/Berlin" into $TZ set the twelvehourtime to false put the time put "
" put "America/New_York" into $TZ set the twelvehourtime to true put the time ?> > Am 06.09.2023 um 15:22 schrieb jbv via use-livecode : > > Hi list, > > How do you handle different time zones in server scripts ? > For example, I and my clients are in Europe, so dates and > times need to be consistent with the local time zone. > But on-rev servers are located in the US East coast, so > there is presently a 6 hours difference. > Furthermore, switching from summer time to winter time > (and back) occur at different dates in Europe and North > America... > How do you guys manage to keep everything consistent > all year round ? > > Thanks you in advance. > jbv > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jbv at souslelogo.com Wed Sep 6 10:05:27 2023 From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com) Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2023 10:05:27 -0400 Subject: LC server, on-rev and time zones In-Reply-To: <5EE83064-0FA9-4D0C-87B0-DD2AC7F18FCD@m-r-d.de> References: <7592a0ecd9699f74cea485097d07cbaa@souslelogo.com> <5EE83064-0FA9-4D0C-87B0-DD2AC7F18FCD@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <479b38cf5ab17454c10fbf9c2cbd7e2c@souslelogo.com> Just tested on On-Rev and it works. Thank you, that's very helpful. Le 2023-09-06 09:39, matthias rebbe via use-livecode a crit : > You could try to set the $TZ variable. I did not try on > On-Rev/LivecodeHosting, but on a HostM Server which also has Livecode > Server installed. > > This script here for example would set the timezone first to Germany > and outputs the current time and then for New York. > > > put "Europe/Berlin" into $TZ > set the twelvehourtime to false > put the time > put "
" > put "America/New_York" into $TZ > set the twelvehourtime to true > put the time > ?> > >> Am 06.09.2023 um 15:22 schrieb jbv via use-livecode >> : >> >> Hi list, >> >> How do you handle different time zones in server scripts ? >> For example, I and my clients are in Europe, so dates and >> times need to be consistent with the local time zone. >> But on-rev servers are located in the US East coast, so >> there is presently a 6 hours difference. >> Furthermore, switching from summer time to winter time >> (and back) occur at different dates in Europe and North >> America... >> How do you guys manage to keep everything consistent >> all year round ? >> >> Thanks you in advance. >> jbv >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Wed Sep 6 19:57:03 2023 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2023 09:57:03 +1000 Subject: Sort bug and also multilevel sorting Message-ID: <86B81444-2507-4063-98B7-27C55E381E1A@optusnet.com.au> Ralph: Interesting. Your code works as you present it, sorting the given items by the sortkey function f1 which adds 1 to each item. I do get the “sorting failed” dialog. But if I try the same thing using myVal modified as you suggest, which adds the first and second items of each line of data and then adds 1 to the global s1, I get the bug I reported: the handler simply exits without showing either the “sorting failed” or the “Done” answer dialog. I would have thought the two methods would generate the same error code, an incorrect operand in a sum, so this is strange! The function definitely returns on the error line, the value of s1 is not changed in the next line in either your f1 or my myVal. So perhaps the bug occurs when the processing returns to the sort code. Not something we can solve here, one for the engineers to sort out (!) Mark Waddingham says the sortKey function is intended to be tolerant of errors, simply returning the original value of ‘each’ - in your case each item, in my case each line. So it should either 1. Continue with the (undocumented) sort order OR 2a. exit to top AND 2b. drop into the debugger/errorDialog. In my example it is doing 2a but not 2b. Craig: The missing bit is that your method won’t work if the integers you are sorting by having different string lengths The lines 2,7 1,99 should, when sorted by numeric ascending (item 1 of each, item 2 of each) - which would be the appropriate syntax for a multilevel sort tho not in LC - result in 1.99 2,7 But if sorted by (item 1 of each & item 2 of each) - which concatenates as strings - gives sort keys 199 and 27 to result in 2,7 1,99 This can be fixed by formatting the numbers so they have the same length by padding with 0s, as MW noted. Once they have the same length you could actually sort lexically which may be a lot faster than sorting numerically (although my guess is using 2 separate sorts may be faster still at least for short lists). The concatenation method also won’t work if sorting real numbers: 1.0,0.2 1.0,0.1 since after concatenation the second decimal place would be ignored in a numeric sort. Neville Smythe From gcanyon at gmail.com Wed Sep 6 22:29:19 2023 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2023 22:29:19 -0400 Subject: sort bug In-Reply-To: <05140c1e777df65d8eddac9079e80d0e1350d3b7@webmail.optusnet.com.au> References: <05140c1e777df65d8eddac9079e80d0e1350d3b7@webmail.optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: >From the original email: If the function myVal encounters a run-time error (in the example if one of the items is not a number) the sort command fails silently: the script exits at that code line and the user is unaware that the sort (and the rest of the handler) were not executed. To be clear: the above is NOT what I'm seeing. Mark W says in the bug report: The 'sort ... by ...' command has always allowed the by expression to be fault tolerant - if evaluating it generates a runtime error then the sort key for that element is just taken to be the original element. And that is what I'm seeing. For example, this code does not exit -- it displays the answer dialog as if nothing out of the ordinary has happened: on mouseUp sort lines of fld 1 numeric by sortVal(each) answer "done" end mouseUp function sortVal S return item 2 of S + item 3 of S end sortVal It seems to be sorting as Mark described: when the function fails, the whole line is used for the sort. And that "fallback to the whole value needs better documentation, and could lead to some truly dismal debugging situations, but it doesn't seem like a bug to me. The original report, if I were able to replicate it, would clearly be a bug. On Sat, Sep 2, 2023 at 8:19 PM neville smythe via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Geoff Canyon wrote (after a bravura display of how many different > ways there are to do things in LC!) : > > And the function sort also sorts based on a negative infinity value > for > > errors. I'm not sure I'd consider that a bug. > > Hmm. I would. The sortKey function should tolerate any sort of > run-time error? But anyway that's not the issue. The bug I see is that > the sort command exits its containing handler - actually I presume the > sortKey function exits to top - without throwing an error, so nothing > beyond that line is executed. This creates a very difficult problem > to track down, since the code appears to be executing correctly, until > something falls over or a file gets corrupted much later because some > stuff never happened. > > Of course one should always validate data, particularly if it's not > your own data. In this case it was my own data! Moreover I had thought > I had checked for invalid cases, just hadn't checked all possible > kinds of invalid data (the sortKey was rather more complicated than > the one I used for illustration). > > Neville > > ------------------------- > Email sent using Optus Webmail > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From james at thehales.id.au Thu Sep 7 04:53:21 2023 From: james at thehales.id.au (James At The Hales) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2023 18:53:21 +1000 Subject: Responsive Layout and Opencard Message-ID: <0C9D1AC4-ACE7-45C6-8177-563C45776DA8@thehales.id.au> Is it my imagination or does using the responsive layout on a card trap the opencard message? I have a 2 card stack where card 2 is an info/help card. Both cards use the responsive layout widget. In order to position items and hide some I have an opencard handler on both cards But in going to the second card it didn’t seem to work. [it might1 not be working on card 1 either.] Testing for mobile (on the simulator) Finally I placed an extra fld on the card 2 and placed a ‘put’ into the fld to tell me what handler I was in. “In opencard” never appeared. I tried preopencard, but no that didn’t work either. After much swearing at my screen and almost giving up I remembered I was using the responsive layout. It then occurred to me that might be the issue. The workaround was to position my objects in the openstack handler. So my question is: is this normal that the responsive layout traps the opencard messages or is something else going on? James From craig at starfirelighting.com Thu Sep 7 09:12:09 2023 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2023 09:12:09 -0400 Subject: Sort bug and also multilevel sorting In-Reply-To: <86B81444-2507-4063-98B7-27C55E381E1A@optusnet.com.au> References: <86B81444-2507-4063-98B7-27C55E381E1A@optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <897E2B52-29B9-4FF4-A584-3E7C01EA4421@starfirelighting.com> Neville. My example was only to show that the sort command still maintains the ability to accept concatenated sort criteria. This allows a single line of code to do the work, and obviates the need for multiple sorts. In that sense it was a bad example to use character "places" in a string. This would not be an issue when using an explicit delimiter of some sort, typically what any sane coder would automatically do. Padding with zeros or spaces is the sort of kludge even I would blanch at. Craig > On Sep 6, 2023, at 7:57 PM, Neville Smythe via use-livecode wrote: > > Ralph: Interesting. Your code works as you present it, sorting the given items by the sortkey function f1 which adds 1 to each item. I do get the “sorting failed” dialog. > > But if I try the same thing using myVal modified as you suggest, which adds the first and second items of each line of data and then adds 1 to the global s1, I get the bug I reported: the handler simply exits without showing either the “sorting failed” or the “Done” answer dialog. > > I would have thought the two methods would generate the same error code, an incorrect operand in a sum, so this is strange! The function definitely returns on the error line, the value of s1 is not changed in the next line in either your f1 or my myVal. So perhaps the bug occurs when the processing returns to the sort code. Not something we can solve here, one for the engineers to sort out (!) > > Mark Waddingham says the sortKey function is intended to be tolerant of errors, simply returning the original value of ‘each’ - in your case each item, in my case each line. So it should either > > 1. Continue with the (undocumented) sort order OR > > 2a. exit to top AND 2b. drop into the debugger/errorDialog. In my example it is doing 2a but not 2b. > > Craig: The missing bit is that your method won’t work if the integers you are sorting by having different string lengths > > The lines > 2,7 > 1,99 > > should, when sorted by numeric ascending (item 1 of each, item 2 of each) - which would be the appropriate syntax for a multilevel sort tho not in LC - result in > 1.99 > 2,7 > > But if sorted by (item 1 of each & item 2 of each) - which concatenates as strings - gives sort keys 199 and 27 to result in > 2,7 > 1,99 > This can be fixed by formatting the numbers so they have the same length by padding with 0s, as MW noted. Once they have the same length you could actually sort lexically which may be a lot faster than sorting numerically (although my guess is using 2 separate sorts may be faster still at least for short lists). > > The concatenation method also won’t work if sorting real numbers: > 1.0,0.2 > 1.0,0.1 > since after concatenation the second decimal place would be ignored in a numeric sort. > > > Neville Smythe > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Sep 7 11:19:19 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2023 15:19:19 +0000 Subject: sort bug In-Reply-To: References: <05140c1e777df65d8eddac9079e80d0e1350d3b7@webmail.optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: For me, put "4,2,a,3,6" into tList;sort items of tList numeric ascending;put tList Results in: a,2,3,4,6 Bob S > On Sep 6, 2023, at 7:29 PM, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode wrote: > > From the original email: > > If the function myVal encounters a run-time error (in the example if one of > the items is not a number) the sort command fails silently: the script > exits at that code line and the user is unaware that the sort (and the rest > of the handler) were not executed. > > > To be clear: the above is NOT what I'm seeing. Mark W says in the bug > report: > > The 'sort ... by ...' command has always allowed the by expression to be > fault tolerant - if evaluating it generates a runtime error then the sort > key for that element is just taken to be the original element. > > And that is what I'm seeing. For example, this code does not exit -- it > displays the answer dialog as if nothing out of the ordinary has happened: > > on mouseUp > sort lines of fld 1 numeric by sortVal(each) > answer "done" > end mouseUp > > function sortVal S > return item 2 of S + item 3 of S > end sortVal > > It seems to be sorting as Mark described: when the function fails, the > whole line is used for the sort. And that "fallback to the whole value > needs better documentation, and could lead to some truly dismal debugging > situations, but it doesn't seem like a bug to me. > > The original report, if I were able to replicate it, would clearly be a bug. From craig at starfirelighting.com Thu Sep 7 11:46:38 2023 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2023 11:46:38 -0400 Subject: sort bug In-Reply-To: References: <05140c1e777df65d8eddac9079e80d0e1350d3b7@webmail.optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: Bob, If you remove the “numeric” the result is “2,3,4,6,a”. To me this implies that ASCII values are used as the sortKey. But that begs the issue why, as in your post, with “numeric” included, the “a” appears first. What makes the “a” a lower "numeric" value than “2”? Craig > On Sep 7, 2023, at 11:19 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > put "4,2,a,3,6" into tList;sort items of tList numeric ascending;put tList From brian at milby7.com Thu Sep 7 12:02:02 2023 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2023 12:02:02 -0400 Subject: sort bug In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It seems the error/bug is related to the error being in the last value. If you were to change the bug report to sort on the field itself, then the sort is performed but the answer does not execute. If you clicked the button again, then the answer does show. If you revert to the saved stack and add a valid value after the bad one, the answer works as expected with the bad value being first. Brian Milby brian at milby7.com > On Sep 6, 2023, at 10:31 PM, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode wrote: > > From the original email: > > If the function myVal encounters a run-time error (in the example if one of > the items is not a number) the sort command fails silently: the script > exits at that code line and the user is unaware that the sort (and the rest > of the handler) were not executed. > > > To be clear: the above is NOT what I'm seeing. Mark W says in the bug > report: > > The 'sort ... by ...' command has always allowed the by expression to be > fault tolerant - if evaluating it generates a runtime error then the sort > key for that element is just taken to be the original element. > > And that is what I'm seeing. For example, this code does not exit -- it > displays the answer dialog as if nothing out of the ordinary has happened: > > on mouseUp > sort lines of fld 1 numeric by sortVal(each) > answer "done" > end mouseUp > > function sortVal S > return item 2 of S + item 3 of S > end sortVal > > It seems to be sorting as Mark described: when the function fails, the > whole line is used for the sort. And that "fallback to the whole value > needs better documentation, and could lead to some truly dismal debugging > situations, but it doesn't seem like a bug to me. > > The original report, if I were able to replicate it, would clearly be a bug. > >> On Sat, Sep 2, 2023 at 8:19 PM neville smythe via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >> Geoff Canyon wrote (after a bravura display of how many different >> ways there are to do things in LC!) : >> >> And the function sort also sorts based on a negative infinity value >> for >> >> errors. I'm not sure I'd consider that a bug. >> >> Hmm. I would. The sortKey function should tolerate any sort of >> run-time error? But anyway that's not the issue. The bug I see is that >> the sort command exits its containing handler - actually I presume the >> sortKey function exits to top - without throwing an error, so nothing >> beyond that line is executed. This creates a very difficult problem >> to track down, since the code appears to be executing correctly, until >> something falls over or a file gets corrupted much later because some >> stuff never happened. >> >> Of course one should always validate data, particularly if it's not >> your own data. In this case it was my own data! Moreover I had thought >> I had checked for invalid cases, just hadn't checked all possible >> kinds of invalid data (the sortKey was rather more complicated than >> the one I used for illustration). >> >> Neville >> >> ------------------------- >> Email sent using Optus Webmail >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Sep 7 12:20:51 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2023 16:20:51 +0000 Subject: sort bug In-Reply-To: References: <05140c1e777df65d8eddac9079e80d0e1350d3b7@webmail.optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <82F96605-B21F-4B99-AC44-E9CB1116C012@iotecdigital.com> I think it is putting all non-numeric values first as unsortable, then the sortable items next. This seems to be the case because: put "b,4,2,a,3,6" into tList;sort items of tList numeric ascending;put tList Results in: b,a,2,3,4,6 This implies that the non-numeric items are not being sorted at all, just shuttled to the front of the line. Bob S > On Sep 7, 2023, at 8:46 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: > > Bob, > > If you remove the “numeric” the result is “2,3,4,6,a”. > > To me this implies that ASCII values are used as the sortKey. But that begs the issue why, as in your post, with “numeric” included, the “a” appears first. What makes the “a” a lower "numeric" value than “2”? > > Craig > >> On Sep 7, 2023, at 11:19 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: >> >> put "4,2,a,3,6" into tList;sort items of tList numeric ascending;put tList From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Sep 7 12:24:56 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2023 16:24:56 +0000 Subject: sort bug In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5C932A3A-0281-48E7-87B5-1BAA53FF0B7E@iotecdigital.com> I’ve always thought that an operator like “a list of…” might be handy. In this case a list of integers, so you could check to see if the list you want to sort is a valid list of integers. Bob S On Sep 7, 2023, at 9:02 AM, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote: It seems the error/bug is related to the error being in the last value. If you were to change the bug report to sort on the field itself, then the sort is performed but the answer does not execute. If you clicked the button again, then the answer does show. If you revert to the saved stack and add a valid value after the bad one, the answer works as expected with the bad value being first. Brian Milby brian at milby7.com On Sep 6, 2023, at 10:31 PM, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode > wrote: From the original email: If the function myVal encounters a run-time error (in the example if one of the items is not a number) the sort command fails silently: the script exits at that code line and the user is unaware that the sort (and the rest of the handler) were not executed. To be clear: the above is NOT what I'm seeing. Mark W says in the bug report: The 'sort ... by ...' command has always allowed the by expression to be fault tolerant - if evaluating it generates a runtime error then the sort key for that element is just taken to be the original element. And that is what I'm seeing. For example, this code does not exit -- it displays the answer dialog as if nothing out of the ordinary has happened: on mouseUp sort lines of fld 1 numeric by sortVal(each) answer "done" end mouseUp function sortVal S return item 2 of S + item 3 of S end sortVal It seems to be sorting as Mark described: when the function fails, the whole line is used for the sort. And that "fallback to the whole value needs better documentation, and could lead to some truly dismal debugging situations, but it doesn't seem like a bug to me. The original report, if I were able to replicate it, would clearly be a bug. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Sep 7 13:50:53 2023 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2023 17:50:53 +0000 Subject: Responsive Layout and Opencard Message-ID: <20230907175053.Horde._Wx0hTTNxJfim52kf_Jbebl@hub.4wsys.com> James wrote: > Is it my imagination or does using the responsive layout on a card  > trap the opencard message?   I haven't used that widget, but I would imagine any moving/resizing of controls would be triggered by the resizeStack message, which on mobile is also sent when a stack opens.   Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems   From ludovic.thebault at laposte.net Thu Sep 7 14:43:22 2023 From: ludovic.thebault at laposte.net (Ludovic THEBAULT) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2023 20:43:22 +0200 Subject: Install app on iOS 9 : still possible ? Message-ID: <83784E26-817A-4984-8C02-8930AEA018C0@laposte.net> Hello, I’ve 2 iPad 2. I want to make some little app for my school. With Livecode 9.6.10, apps are not compatible. Which version of Livecode can be used to create compatible apps? Thanks. From benr_mc at cogapp.com Thu Sep 7 17:02:58 2023 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2023 22:02:58 +0100 Subject: OAuth2 broken in LC 10 (dp6) Message-ID: <446f143f-c7b2-92b4-d5f4-ac047d253d18@cogapp.com> Am I doing something wrong, or is OAuth2 broken in LC 10? (Using dp6, but also true of dp5). When I call OAuth2, it attempts to open a link in my default browser, instead of in a sheet on the stack. This doesn't display anything. Same stack works fine in 9.6.10 and all earlier versions I've tried, opening a sheet which correctly allows me to authorise, logging in as necessary. This is on Mac, in the IDE, on macOS 12.6.7. I'm not sure if this something to do with https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23767. Can anyone confirm, before I bugzilla it? TIA, Ben From monte.goulding at livecode.com Thu Sep 7 18:39:40 2023 From: monte.goulding at livecode.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2023 08:39:40 +1000 Subject: OAuth2 broken in LC 10 (dp6) In-Reply-To: <446f143f-c7b2-92b4-d5f4-ac047d253d18@cogapp.com> References: <446f143f-c7b2-92b4-d5f4-ac047d253d18@cogapp.com> Message-ID: <091C2E9B-9096-4199-B4C9-9C4FABF2B316@livecode.com> Hi Ben Launching the url in the default browser is by design as it is a required change to conform to RFC 8252. The notion being the user’s default browser is trusted not to record entered credentials while web views presented in apps don’t have that trust. There are notes on this breaking change in the release notes. Could you please create a bug report. It sounds like there’s some issue with the formation of the authorisation url or parameters we are attempting to launch in the browser. If you could include the parameters you are using in the report along with it that would be most helpful. Just change the client id and secret so it is different but conforms to the same pattern as you are using. If you can launch the url in your browser and copy the url the browser is trying to open that would be helpful but we can do that once we have the parameters. Thanks Monte > On 8 Sep 2023, at 7:02 am, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode wrote: > > Am I doing something wrong, or is OAuth2 broken in LC 10? (Using dp6, but also true of dp5). > > When I call OAuth2, it attempts to open a link in my default browser, instead of in a sheet on the stack. This doesn't display anything. > > Same stack works fine in 9.6.10 and all earlier versions I've tried, opening a sheet which correctly allows me to authorise, logging in as necessary. > > This is on Mac, in the IDE, on macOS 12.6.7. > > I'm not sure if this something to do with https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23767. > > Can anyone confirm, before I bugzilla it? > > TIA, > > Ben > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From james at thehales.id.au Fri Sep 8 02:51:19 2023 From: james at thehales.id.au (James Hale) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2023 16:51:19 +1000 Subject: Responsive Layout and Opencard (James At The Hales) Message-ID: <1C116E80-3DDA-4D53-A9A1-C9F097418D9F@thehales.id.au> Never mind, my error. James From benr_mc at cogapp.com Fri Sep 8 13:12:56 2023 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2023 18:12:56 +0100 Subject: OAuth2 broken in LC 10 (dp6) In-Reply-To: <091C2E9B-9096-4199-B4C9-9C4FABF2B316@livecode.com> References: <446f143f-c7b2-92b4-d5f4-ac047d253d18@cogapp.com> <091C2E9B-9096-4199-B4C9-9C4FABF2B316@livecode.com> Message-ID: <71e9fdc1-c245-d71b-f5d7-23b0ec7c5ee8@cogapp.com> Thanks Monte: https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=24334 Ben On 07/09/2023 23:39, Monte Goulding via use-livecode wrote: > Hi Ben > > Launching the url in the default browser is by design as it is a required change to conform to RFC 8252. The notion being the users default browser is trusted not to record entered credentials while web views presented in apps dont have that trust. There are notes on this breaking change in the release notes. > > Could you please create a bug report. It sounds like theres some issue with the formation of the authorisation url or parameters we are attempting to launch in the browser. If you could include the parameters you are using in the report along with it that would be most helpful. Just change the client id and secret so it is different but conforms to the same pattern as you are using. If you can launch the url in your browser and copy the url the browser is trying to open that would be helpful but we can do that once we have the parameters. > > Thanks > > Monte > >> On 8 Sep 2023, at 7:02 am, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Am I doing something wrong, or is OAuth2 broken in LC 10? (Using dp6, but also true of dp5). >> >> When I call OAuth2, it attempts to open a link in my default browser, instead of in a sheet on the stack. This doesn't display anything. >> >> Same stack works fine in 9.6.10 and all earlier versions I've tried, opening a sheet which correctly allows me to authorise, logging in as necessary. >> >> This is on Mac, in the IDE, on macOS 12.6.7. >> >> I'm not sure if this something to do with https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23767. >> >> Can anyone confirm, before I bugzilla it? >> >> TIA, >> >> Ben >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From klaus at major-k.de Thu Sep 14 06:02:36 2023 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2023 12:02:36 +0200 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) Message-ID: <5E689E51-B89F-4FF0-B934-009BC72D54F1@major-k.de> Hi all, yesterday it* happened again! *Around one of twenty times I start my app on my Samsung tablet, I get a black screen. I started the tablet, opened my app -> OK quit the app and started again -> OK quit the app and started again -> OK quit the app and attached my USB footswitch started the app -> BLACK SCREEN That also happens without the attached footswitch Then I took Jacque's advice and waited a bit and after about 30 seconds I got the "Application not responding" alter with two options: -> Close app -> Wait So I clicked "Quit" and could start the app anew without any problem! I am really wondering why this happens?! On the first card there are just two polygrids with < 10 entries each, loaded "on openstack" on the fly from the folders and files in the resources folder See screenshot here: (Ordner = folders) NO PDF is loaded yet! NO resizestack message, this is just for me and my tablet. NO "accelerated rendering" set for the stack Any hints very welcome, not sure if I should open a bug report, since this only happens from time to time, about 1 of twenty app starts. macOS 12.6.9, LC 9.6.10, Android 8.1, Android API 33 Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From klaus at major-k.de Thu Sep 14 07:01:26 2023 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2023 13:01:26 +0200 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) Message-ID: <70A99081-163E-4924-BFF6-5CF496F9908C@major-k.de> Hi all, yesterday it* happened again! *Around one of twenty times I start my app on my Samsung tablet, I get a black screen. I started the tablet, opened my app -> OK quit the app and started again -> OK quit the app and started again -> OK quit the app and attached my USB footswitch started the app -> BLACK SCREEN That also happens without the attached footswitch Then I took Jacque's advice and waited a bit and after about 30 seconds I got the "Application not responding" alter with two options: -> Close app -> Wait So I clicked "Quit" and could start the app anew without any problem! I am really wondering why this happens?! On the first card there are just two polygrids with < 10 entries each, loaded "on openstack" on the fly from the folders and files in the resources folder See screenshot here: (Ordner = folders) NO PDF is loaded yet! NO resizestack message, this is just for me and my tablet. NO "accelerated rendering" set for the stack Any hints very welcome, not sure if I should open a bug report, since this only happens from time to time, about 1 of twenty app starts. macOS 12.6.9, LC 9.6.10, Android 8.1, Android API 33 Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Thu Sep 14 13:20:24 2023 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2023 13:20:24 -0400 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <70A99081-163E-4924-BFF6-5CF496F9908C@major-k.de> References: <70A99081-163E-4924-BFF6-5CF496F9908C@major-k.de> Message-ID: <000001d9e72f$c296c440$47c44cc0$@net> Klaus, Get a logcat after a crash and see if Panos can glean anything useful from it. It helped me once identifying and getting a crash fix implemented. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Klaus major-k via use-livecode Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2023 7:01 AM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Klaus major-k Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) Hi all, yesterday it* happened again! *Around one of twenty times I start my app on my Samsung tablet, I get a black screen. I started the tablet, opened my app -> OK quit the app and started again -> OK quit the app and started again -> OK quit the app and attached my USB footswitch started the app -> BLACK SCREEN That also happens without the attached footswitch Then I took Jacque's advice and waited a bit and after about 30 seconds I got the "Application not responding" alter with two options: -> Close app -> Wait So I clicked "Quit" and could start the app anew without any problem! I am really wondering why this happens?! On the first card there are just two polygrids with < 10 entries each, loaded "on openstack" on the fly from the folders and files in the resources folder See screenshot here: (Ordner = folders) NO PDF is loaded yet! NO resizestack message, this is just for me and my tablet. NO "accelerated rendering" set for the stack Any hints very welcome, not sure if I should open a bug report, since this only happens from time to time, about 1 of twenty app starts. macOS 12.6.9, LC 9.6.10, Android 8.1, Android API 33 Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From klaus at major-k.de Thu Sep 14 13:23:46 2023 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2023 19:23:46 +0200 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <000001d9e72f$c296c440$47c44cc0$@net> References: <70A99081-163E-4924-BFF6-5CF496F9908C@major-k.de> <000001d9e72f$c296c440$47c44cc0$@net> Message-ID: Hi Ralph, > Am 14.09.2023 um 19:20 schrieb Ralph DiMola via use-livecode : > > Klaus, > > Get a logcat after a crash and where can I possibly find one on my tablet? > and see if Panos can glean anything useful from > it. It helped me once identifying and getting a crash fix implemented. > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf > Of Klaus major-k via use-livecode > Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2023 7:01 AM > To: How to use LiveCode > Cc: Klaus major-k > Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) > > Hi all, > > yesterday it* happened again! > > *Around one of twenty times I start my app on my Samsung tablet, I get a > black screen. > > I started the tablet, opened my app -> OK quit the app and started again -> > OK quit the app and started again -> OK quit the app and attached my USB > footswitch started the app -> BLACK SCREEN That also happens without the > attached footswitch > > Then I took Jacque's advice and waited a bit and after about > 30 seconds I got the "Application not responding" alter with two options: > -> Close app > -> Wait > > So I clicked "Quit" and could start the app anew without any problem! > > I am really wondering why this happens?! > > On the first card there are just two polygrids with < 10 entries each, > loaded "on openstack" on the fly from the folders and files in the resources > folder See screenshot here: > ?rlkey=09o2ljter5hramdhv3gm5x786&dl=0> > (Ordner = folders) > NO PDF is loaded yet! > NO resizestack message, this is just for me and my tablet. > NO "accelerated rendering" set for the stack > > Any hints very welcome, not sure if I should open a bug report, since this > only happens from time to time, about 1 of twenty app starts. > > macOS 12.6.9, LC 9.6.10, Android 8.1, Android API 33 Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Thu Sep 14 13:43:09 2023 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2023 13:43:09 -0400 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: References: <70A99081-163E-4924-BFF6-5CF496F9908C@major-k.de> <000001d9e72f$c296c440$47c44cc0$@net> Message-ID: <000401d9e732$effa4e40$cfeeeac0$@net> Klaus, You need to get it using a command prompt via USB. Connect device. Open command prompt. In the android SDK platform-tools folder... Steps: 1) Clear the log 2) Get you app to crash 3) Get a log ADB commands below: ADB logcat -c Now run your app till crash ADB logcat The log can be piped to a file. In windows it's ADB logcat > somefile.txt The logcat will keep running so on windows a ctrl C will terminate. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Klaus major-k via use-livecode Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2023 1:24 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Klaus major-k Subject: Re: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) Hi Ralph, > Am 14.09.2023 um 19:20 schrieb Ralph DiMola via use-livecode : > > Klaus, > > Get a logcat after a crash and where can I possibly find one on my tablet? > and see if Panos can glean anything useful from it. It helped me once > identifying and getting a crash fix implemented. > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On > Behalf Of Klaus major-k via use-livecode > Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2023 7:01 AM > To: How to use LiveCode > Cc: Klaus major-k > Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) > > Hi all, > > yesterday it* happened again! > > *Around one of twenty times I start my app on my Samsung tablet, I get > a black screen. > > I started the tablet, opened my app -> OK quit the app and started > again -> OK quit the app and started again -> OK quit the app and > attached my USB footswitch started the app -> BLACK SCREEN That also > happens without the attached footswitch > > Then I took Jacque's advice and waited a bit and after about > 30 seconds I got the "Application not responding" alter with two options: > -> Close app > -> Wait > > So I clicked "Quit" and could start the app anew without any problem! > > I am really wondering why this happens?! > > On the first card there are just two polygrids with < 10 entries each, > loaded "on openstack" on the fly from the folders and files in the > resources folder See screenshot here: > _1.png ?rlkey=09o2ljter5hramdhv3gm5x786&dl=0> > (Ordner = folders) > NO PDF is loaded yet! > NO resizestack message, this is just for me and my tablet. > NO "accelerated rendering" set for the stack > > Any hints very welcome, not sure if I should open a bug report, since > this only happens from time to time, about 1 of twenty app starts. > > macOS 12.6.9, LC 9.6.10, Android 8.1, Android API 33 Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From klaus at major-k.de Thu Sep 14 13:49:46 2023 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2023 19:49:46 +0200 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <000401d9e732$effa4e40$cfeeeac0$@net> References: <70A99081-163E-4924-BFF6-5CF496F9908C@major-k.de> <000001d9e72f$c296c440$47c44cc0$@net> <000401d9e732$effa4e40$cfeeeac0$@net> Message-ID: <7A8818BC-3134-429B-9088-01B136815800@major-k.de> Hi Ralph, > Am 14.09.2023 um 19:43 schrieb Ralph DiMola via use-livecode : > > Klaus, > > You need to get it using a command prompt via USB. Connect device. Open > command prompt. In the android SDK platform-tools folder... Steps: > > 1) Clear the log > 2) Get you app to crash > 3) Get a log > > ADB commands below: > > ADB logcat -c > Now run your app till crash > ADB logcat > > The log can be piped to a file. > In windows it's > ADB logcat > somefile.txt > The logcat will keep running so on windows a ctrl C will terminate. OK, thank you. But I'm using a Mac and it looks like that tool is not available here in the SDK tools folder. Maybe available somewhere in "Android Studio". And my problem NEVER happened when I'm at home, only during band rehearsals and gigs! :-D > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Sep 14 14:03:43 2023 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2023 13:03:43 -0500 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <000001d9e72f$c296c440$47c44cc0$@net> References: <70A99081-163E-4924-BFF6-5CF496F9908C@major-k.de> <000001d9e72f$c296c440$47c44cc0$@net> Message-ID: <18a94dcf418.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> He's not crashing, it's a hang. I can't remember if logcat shows those. My guess is that it's a memory problem since he's running a very old version of Android with not much RAM, and restarting the app may force retained apps to release RAM. But a log can't hurt at any rate. Klaus, remove all unnecessary widgets from your home screen(s). Also go through all the apps in settings and disable or delete any you don't use. Android will not allow you to do that for required apps so if the buttons are enabled then it's safe. Most devices come with a lot of bloatware that runs in the background and uses memory. Widgets are especially bad at that. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On September 14, 2023 12:21:15 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote: > Get a logcat after a crash and see if Panos can glean anything useful from > it. It helped me once identifying and getting a crash fix implemented. From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Thu Sep 14 14:16:21 2023 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2023 14:16:21 -0400 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <18a94dcf418.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <70A99081-163E-4924-BFF6-5CF496F9908C@major-k.de> <000001d9e72f$c296c440$47c44cc0$@net> <18a94dcf418.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <000501d9e737$936c5bf0$ba4513d0$@net> I was thinking that if it's indeed a hang it would show how far the app activation proceeded before the hang. Maybe that would help/confirm that this is indeed a hang or crash. Just a thought Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2023 2:04 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: J. Landman Gay Subject: RE: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) He's not crashing, it's a hang. I can't remember if logcat shows those. My guess is that it's a memory problem since he's running a very old version of Android with not much RAM, and restarting the app may force retained apps to release RAM. But a log can't hurt at any rate. Klaus, remove all unnecessary widgets from your home screen(s). Also go through all the apps in settings and disable or delete any you don't use. Android will not allow you to do that for required apps so if the buttons are enabled then it's safe. Most devices come with a lot of bloatware that runs in the background and uses memory. Widgets are especially bad at that. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On September 14, 2023 12:21:15 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote: > Get a logcat after a crash and see if Panos can glean anything useful from > it. It helped me once identifying and getting a crash fix implemented. _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Thu Sep 14 14:21:08 2023 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2023 14:21:08 -0400 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <7A8818BC-3134-429B-9088-01B136815800@major-k.de> References: <70A99081-163E-4924-BFF6-5CF496F9908C@major-k.de> <000001d9e72f$c296c440$47c44cc0$@net> <000401d9e732$effa4e40$cfeeeac0$@net> <7A8818BC-3134-429B-9088-01B136815800@major-k.de> Message-ID: <000601d9e738$3eacd800$bc068800$@net> It should be there. It's not in the tools folder it's in the "platform-tools" folder. Clear the logcat before you go to practice then after you get home after a hang/crash do the logcat. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Klaus major-k via use-livecode Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2023 1:50 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Klaus major-k Subject: Re: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) Hi Ralph, > Am 14.09.2023 um 19:43 schrieb Ralph DiMola via use-livecode : > > Klaus, > > You need to get it using a command prompt via USB. Connect device. > Open command prompt. In the android SDK platform-tools folder... Steps: > > 1) Clear the log > 2) Get you app to crash > 3) Get a log > > ADB commands below: > > ADB logcat -c > Now run your app till crash > ADB logcat > > The log can be piped to a file. > In windows it's > ADB logcat > somefile.txt > The logcat will keep running so on windows a ctrl C will terminate. OK, thank you. But I'm using a Mac and it looks like that tool is not available here in the SDK tools folder. Maybe available somewhere in "Android Studio". And my problem NEVER happened when I'm at home, only during band rehearsals and gigs! :-D > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From klaus at major-k.de Fri Sep 15 03:52:45 2023 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 09:52:45 +0200 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <18a94dcf418.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <70A99081-163E-4924-BFF6-5CF496F9908C@major-k.de> <000001d9e72f$c296c440$47c44cc0$@net> <18a94dcf418.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <86B0BBD3-9BA2-4268-B404-BA895697AC5E@major-k.de> Hi all, > Am 14.09.2023 um 20:03 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode : > > He's not crashing, it's a hang. I can't remember if logcat shows those. > My guess is that it's a memory problem since he's running a very old version of Android with not much RAM, it is a Galaxy Tab A (2016) with 2 GB RAM and 32 GB hd (or SSD?) running Android 8.1. So the LC Android engine is a bit RAM "hungry"? Or are the new widgets like PolyGrid? Strange, I have another LC app installed on my Samsung Galaxy J7 (2016) cell phone with 2 GB of RAM and 16 GB HD which never ever crashed or hung in the last year? > and restarting the app may force retained apps to release RAM. But a log can't hurt at any rate. > > Klaus, remove all unnecessary widgets from your home screen(s). Also go through all the apps in settings and disable or delete any you don't use. Android will not allow you to do that for required apps so if the buttons are enabled then it's safe. Most devices come with a lot of bloatware that runs in the background and uses memory. Widgets are especially bad at that. I already disabled and deleted everything that could be disabled and deleted, since I exclusivley (sic!) use the tablet to display sheet music. Therefore I really wonder why this does not happen more often? Will try to check the "logcat", when this will happen the next time. Thanks for all hints so far. > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > On September 14, 2023 12:21:15 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote: > >> Get a logcat after a crash and see if Panos can glean anything useful from >> it. It helped me once identifying and getting a crash fix implemented. Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From mark at livecode.com Fri Sep 15 06:14:19 2023 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 11:14:19 +0100 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <7A8818BC-3134-429B-9088-01B136815800@major-k.de> References: <70A99081-163E-4924-BFF6-5CF496F9908C@major-k.de> <000001d9e72f$c296c440$47c44cc0$@net> <000401d9e732$effa4e40$cfeeeac0$@net> <7A8818BC-3134-429B-9088-01B136815800@major-k.de> Message-ID: <910a9f9df07d72acf53526aa91fcce24@livecode.com> On 2023-09-14 18:49, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > But I'm using a Mac and it looks like that tool is not available here > in the SDK tools folder. > Maybe available somewhere in "Android Studio". > > And my problem NEVER happened when I'm at home, only during band > rehearsals and gigs! :-D So this is perhaps the most useful observation... This could suggest there is a either a difference in usage, or environment between the two places. e.g. - is the app used more / for longer at gigs compared to home? - how is the tablet powered at home vs at gigs? - how does the tablet connect to the internet at home vs at gigs? (even if the app does not use the internet, lots of background stuff on Android *does*) - when the problem happens is there anything specific you can think of in common with what you were doing / the app was doing / the device was doing just before? (e.g. does it happen just after the device has gone to sleep). The fact it is 'hanging' suggests there is something (on startup?) which is failing and causing an infinite loop. Is there anything in the startup code for the app which waits for something to happen? e.g. an network request, something to initialize etc.? Warmest Regards, Mark. P.S. If you send your app's source to support at livecode.com with a rough outline of where to look for startup code etc. then Panos and I can take a quick look and see if we can see anything which may be causing your issue. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Build Amazing Things From klaus at major-k.de Fri Sep 15 06:34:01 2023 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 12:34:01 +0200 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <910a9f9df07d72acf53526aa91fcce24@livecode.com> References: <70A99081-163E-4924-BFF6-5CF496F9908C@major-k.de> <000001d9e72f$c296c440$47c44cc0$@net> <000401d9e732$effa4e40$cfeeeac0$@net> <7A8818BC-3134-429B-9088-01B136815800@major-k.de> <910a9f9df07d72acf53526aa91fcce24@livecode.com> Message-ID: <65E378B1-9BBA-48B0-A81B-DE2AEF2786E9@major-k.de> Hi Mark, > Am 15.09.2023 um 12:14 schrieb Mark Waddingham via use-livecode : > > On 2023-09-14 18:49, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >> But I'm using a Mac and it looks like that tool is not available here in the SDK tools folder. >> Maybe available somewhere in "Android Studio". >> And my problem NEVER happened when I'm at home, only during band rehearsals and gigs! :-D > So this is perhaps the most useful observation... :-) > This could suggest there is a either a difference in usage, or environment between the two places. e.g. > - is the app used more / for longer at gigs compared to home? Yes. > - how is the tablet powered at home vs at gigs? Via its internal rechargable battery, will recharge it overnight with no connection to my Mac. > - how does the tablet connect to the internet at home vs at gigs? (even if the app does not use the internet, lots of background stuff on Android *does*) At home via W-Lan, at gigs no internet connection (no SIM card or something!) > - when the problem happens is there anything specific you can think of in common with what you were doing / the app was doing / the device was doing just before? (e.g. does it happen just after the device has gone to sleep). No, sometimes I get the black screen immediately when I start the tablet at a gig or rehearsal, sometimes after several quit/start of the app. > The fact it is 'hanging' suggests there is something (on startup?) which is failing and causing an infinite loop. Nothing remarkable here, I only fill the two polygrids (< 10 entries each) on the first card on preopenstack. > Is there anything in the startup code for the app which waits for something to happen? e.g. an network request, something to initialize etc.? No, nada, just what I wrote above. > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > > P.S. If you send your app's source to support at livecode.com with a rough outline of where to look for startup code etc. then Panos and I can take a quick look and see if we can see anything which may be causing your issue. Great, thanks, will remove all unneccessary files and will send it with some instructions. > -- > Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Build Amazing Things Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com Fri Sep 15 10:30:41 2023 From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 16:30:41 +0200 Subject: Your scripts as a flowchart Message-ID: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> Hi all! Those frequenting the forums may have seen this already, but I thought I'd share it here too now: If you want to see a graphic map of the inter-relations of all the handlers in the scripts of your LiveCode projects, my tool ScriptDependencies now features an extremely cool flowchart output (using the Mermaid javascript lib). Here’s an example of how a script flowchart can look: https://wheninspace.com/browseranimation/WIS_ScriptDependencies_example.png A few easy steps to test it on your own scripts: 1) Download ScriptDependencies here: https://github.com/wheninspace/WIS_ScriptDepedencies/releases/latest 2) Open the stack, click the top left cog wheel and add at least one stack (that has at least some handlers calling other handlers) to a project. 3) Close the project pane and click "Start mapping and analysis”. 4) Click ”Create flowchart”. Boom! :) On Mac, the browser widget can display the flowchart in-stack, enabling some interactivity (click a node to highlight the arrows to and from it). On Windows and Linux, where the browser widget has, er... room for improvement…, the flowchart is instead displayed in an external browser window (minus interactivity). My intention with ScriptDependencies is to provide a code analysis and live documentation tool (of some kind) for LiveCode projects. I need it myself for some big LC projects, and thought it might be useful also for other LC devs. The tool has been thoroughly tested by LC veterans like bn (Bernd), jacque (Jacqueline) and mwieder (Mike), who have all provided invaluable feedback and improvement suggestions, bringing the tool up to quite a professional level. I hope you’ll find use for it - or at least enjoy seeing your scripts presented as a bouquet of flowers, a piece of art! :) Any feedback is very welcome! /Andreas From marksmithhfx at gmail.com Fri Sep 15 10:46:06 2023 From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 15:46:06 +0100 Subject: Your scripts as a flowchart In-Reply-To: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> References: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5D161B5C-3186-4B1D-AEF0-936CD7F73B0F@gmail.com> Very cool Andreas. I look forward to trying this out. Mark > On 15 Sep 2023, at 3:30 pm, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi all! > > Those frequenting the forums may have seen this already, but I thought I'd share it here too now: > > If you want to see a graphic map of the inter-relations of all the handlers in the scripts of your LiveCode projects, my tool ScriptDependencies now features an extremely cool flowchart output (using the Mermaid javascript lib). > > Here’s an example of how a script flowchart can look: > https://wheninspace.com/browseranimation/WIS_ScriptDependencies_example.png > > A few easy steps to test it on your own scripts: > > 1) Download ScriptDependencies here: > https://github.com/wheninspace/WIS_ScriptDepedencies/releases/latest > > 2) Open the stack, click the top left cog wheel and add at least one stack (that has at least some handlers calling other handlers) to a project. > 3) Close the project pane and click "Start mapping and analysis”. > 4) Click ”Create flowchart”. Boom! :) > > On Mac, the browser widget can display the flowchart in-stack, enabling some interactivity (click a node to highlight the arrows to and from it). > On Windows and Linux, where the browser widget has, er... room for improvement…, the flowchart is instead displayed in an external browser window (minus interactivity). > > My intention with ScriptDependencies is to provide a code analysis and live documentation tool (of some kind) for LiveCode projects. I need it myself for some big LC projects, and thought it might be useful also for other LC devs. > > The tool has been thoroughly tested by LC veterans like bn (Bernd), jacque (Jacqueline) and mwieder (Mike), who have all provided invaluable feedback and improvement suggestions, bringing the tool up to quite a professional level. > > I hope you’ll find use for it - or at least enjoy seeing your scripts presented as a bouquet of flowers, a piece of art! :) > > Any feedback is very welcome! > > /Andreas > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 15 11:20:18 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 15:20:18 +0000 Subject: Your scripts as a flowchart In-Reply-To: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> References: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> Message-ID: <6097681B-D78E-4D34-AFA2-E70CBDA397B7@iotecdigital.com> Very cool. I’ll give it a try. But whereas most people’s code will look like a bowl of spaghetti, mine will probably look like Whoppi Goldberg’s hair. Bob S > On Sep 15, 2023, at 7:30 AM, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi all! > > Those frequenting the forums may have seen this already, but I thought I'd share it here too now: > > If you want to see a graphic map of the inter-relations of all the handlers in the scripts of your LiveCode projects, my tool ScriptDependencies now features an extremely cool flowchart output (using the Mermaid javascript lib). > > Here’s an example of how a script flowchart can look: > https://wheninspace.com/browseranimation/WIS_ScriptDependencies_example.png > > A few easy steps to test it on your own scripts: > > 1) Download ScriptDependencies here: > https://github.com/wheninspace/WIS_ScriptDepedencies/releases/latest > > 2) Open the stack, click the top left cog wheel and add at least one stack (that has at least some handlers calling other handlers) to a project. > 3) Close the project pane and click "Start mapping and analysis”. > 4) Click ”Create flowchart”. Boom! :) > > On Mac, the browser widget can display the flowchart in-stack, enabling some interactivity (click a node to highlight the arrows to and from it). > On Windows and Linux, where the browser widget has, er... room for improvement…, the flowchart is instead displayed in an external browser window (minus interactivity). > > My intention with ScriptDependencies is to provide a code analysis and live documentation tool (of some kind) for LiveCode projects. I need it myself for some big LC projects, and thought it might be useful also for other LC devs. > > The tool has been thoroughly tested by LC veterans like bn (Bernd), jacque (Jacqueline) and mwieder (Mike), who have all provided invaluable feedback and improvement suggestions, bringing the tool up to quite a professional level. > > I hope you’ll find use for it - or at least enjoy seeing your scripts presented as a bouquet of flowers, a piece of art! :) > > Any feedback is very welcome! > > /Andreas > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ahsoftware at sonic.net Fri Sep 15 11:47:33 2023 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 08:47:33 -0700 Subject: Your scripts as a flowchart In-Reply-To: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> References: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2ee08412-4787-3013-01d2-a4a95c8d5e0a@sonic.net> Just want to add that Andreas has been super-responsive to suggestions re adding features and improving things and this tool has gone from being moderately useful to something I can't do without. And is a textbook example in how to incorporate a javascript library into LiveCode. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From irog at mac.com Fri Sep 15 12:07:05 2023 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 09:07:05 -0700 Subject: Your scripts as a flowchart In-Reply-To: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> References: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1B8231F6-92BA-47A4-854F-8958501AF23D@mac.com> Very cool! Thank you for sharing it, Andreas. Roger > On Sep 15, 2023, at 7:30 AM, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi all! > > Those frequenting the forums may have seen this already, but I thought I'd share it here too now: > > If you want to see a graphic map of the inter-relations of all the handlers in the scripts of your LiveCode projects, my tool ScriptDependencies now features an extremely cool flowchart output (using the Mermaid javascript lib). > > Here’s an example of how a script flowchart can look: > https://wheninspace.com/browseranimation/WIS_ScriptDependencies_example.png > > A few easy steps to test it on your own scripts: > > 1) Download ScriptDependencies here: > https://github.com/wheninspace/WIS_ScriptDepedencies/releases/latest > > 2) Open the stack, click the top left cog wheel and add at least one stack (that has at least some handlers calling other handlers) to a project. > 3) Close the project pane and click "Start mapping and analysis”. > 4) Click ”Create flowchart”. Boom! :) > > On Mac, the browser widget can display the flowchart in-stack, enabling some interactivity (click a node to highlight the arrows to and from it). > On Windows and Linux, where the browser widget has, er... room for improvement…, the flowchart is instead displayed in an external browser window (minus interactivity). > > My intention with ScriptDependencies is to provide a code analysis and live documentation tool (of some kind) for LiveCode projects. I need it myself for some big LC projects, and thought it might be useful also for other LC devs. > > The tool has been thoroughly tested by LC veterans like bn (Bernd), jacque (Jacqueline) and mwieder (Mike), who have all provided invaluable feedback and improvement suggestions, bringing the tool up to quite a professional level. > > I hope you’ll find use for it - or at least enjoy seeing your scripts presented as a bouquet of flowers, a piece of art! :) > > Any feedback is very welcome! > > /Andreas > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com Fri Sep 15 12:12:46 2023 From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 18:12:46 +0200 Subject: Your scripts as a flowchart In-Reply-To: <2ee08412-4787-3013-01d2-a4a95c8d5e0a@sonic.net> References: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> <2ee08412-4787-3013-01d2-a4a95c8d5e0a@sonic.net> Message-ID: <6CF00A35-1B64-4C5F-8492-E99FF5507926@gmail.com> Thanks, that’s great to hear, Mark! (And terribly sorry for the credit misnaming - it’s Mark! I’ll remember that now!) > 15 sep. 2023 kl. 17:47 skrev Mark Wieder via use-livecode : > > Just want to add that Andreas has been super-responsive to suggestions re adding features and improving things and this tool has gone from being moderately useful to something I can't do without. And is a textbook example in how to incorporate a javascript library into LiveCode. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 15 12:18:22 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 16:18:22 +0000 Subject: Your scripts as a flowchart In-Reply-To: <6CF00A35-1B64-4C5F-8492-E99FF5507926@gmail.com> References: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> <2ee08412-4787-3013-01d2-a4a95c8d5e0a@sonic.net> <6CF00A35-1B64-4C5F-8492-E99FF5507926@gmail.com> Message-ID: I was gonna say, I didn’t know he had a brother who was a LiveCoder too! Bob S > On Sep 15, 2023, at 9:12 AM, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode wrote: > > Thanks, that’s great to hear, Mark! (And terribly sorry for the credit misnaming - it’s Mark! I’ll remember that now!) > >> 15 sep. 2023 kl. 17:47 skrev Mark Wieder via use-livecode : >> >> Just want to add that Andreas has been super-responsive to suggestions re adding features and improving things and this tool has gone from being moderately useful to something I can't do without. And is a textbook example in how to incorporate a javascript library into LiveCode. >> >> -- >> Mark Wieder >> ahsoftware at gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org Fri Sep 15 13:03:58 2023 From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (William Prothero) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 10:03:58 -0700 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <65E378B1-9BBA-48B0-A81B-DE2AEF2786E9@major-k.de> References: <65E378B1-9BBA-48B0-A81B-DE2AEF2786E9@major-k.de> Message-ID: <2D38FE2A-05BA-43D7-BDB9-E25D275C1351@earthlearningsolutions.org> Klaus, Re sheet music display, I also display sheet music, mostly jazz. There's an app, very low cost, named igigbook that displays pdfs. If you're into jazz, you can get lots of real book music and there is even an addon for changing the key for some realbook songs. The trouble is, iGigbook is optimized for the Mac, so I'm not sure it would work for you. So, excuse me if my comment is irrelevant to your goal. Have fun, Bill William A. Prothero, PhD Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science University of California, Santa Barbara > On Sep 15, 2023, at 3:34 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Mark, > >> Am 15.09.2023 um 12:14 schrieb Mark Waddingham via use-livecode : >> >>> On 2023-09-14 18:49, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >>> But I'm using a Mac and it looks like that tool is not available here in the SDK tools folder. >>> Maybe available somewhere in "Android Studio". >>> And my problem NEVER happened when I'm at home, only during band rehearsals and gigs! :-D >> So this is perhaps the most useful observation... > > :-) > >> This could suggest there is a either a difference in usage, or environment between the two places. e.g. >> - is the app used more / for longer at gigs compared to home? > > Yes. > >> - how is the tablet powered at home vs at gigs? > > Via its internal rechargable battery, will recharge it overnight with no connection to my Mac. > >> - how does the tablet connect to the internet at home vs at gigs? (even if the app does not use the internet, lots of background stuff on Android *does*) > > At home via W-Lan, at gigs no internet connection (no SIM card or something!) > >> - when the problem happens is there anything specific you can think of in common with what you were doing / the app was doing / the device was doing just before? (e.g. does it happen just after the device has gone to sleep). > > No, sometimes I get the black screen immediately when I start the tablet at a gig or rehearsal, sometimes after several quit/start of the app. > >> The fact it is 'hanging' suggests there is something (on startup?) which is failing and causing an infinite loop. > > Nothing remarkable here, I only fill the two polygrids (< 10 entries each) on the first card on preopenstack. > >> Is there anything in the startup code for the app which waits for something to happen? e.g. an network request, something to initialize etc.? > > No, nada, just what I wrote above. > >> Warmest Regards, >> >> Mark. >> >> P.S. If you send your app's source to support at livecode.com with a rough outline of where to look for startup code etc. then Panos and I can take a quick look and see if we can see anything which may be causing your issue. > > Great, thanks, will remove all unneccessary files and will send it with some instructions. > >> -- >> Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ >> LiveCode: Build Amazing Things > > Best > > Klaus > > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > https://www.major-k.de/bass > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From klaus at major-k.de Fri Sep 15 13:13:36 2023 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 19:13:36 +0200 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <2D38FE2A-05BA-43D7-BDB9-E25D275C1351@earthlearningsolutions.org> References: <65E378B1-9BBA-48B0-A81B-DE2AEF2786E9@major-k.de> <2D38FE2A-05BA-43D7-BDB9-E25D275C1351@earthlearningsolutions.org> Message-ID: <3534B370-3CB4-4356-AE01-C123407D3A73@major-k.de> Hi Bill, > Am 15.09.2023 um 19:03 schrieb William Prothero via use-livecode : > > Klaus, > Re sheet music display, I also display sheet music, mostly jazz. There's an app, very low cost, named igigbook that displays pdfs. If you're into jazz, you can get lots of real book music and there is even an addon for changing the key for some realbook songs. > > The trouble is, iGigbook is optimized for the Mac, so I'm not sure it would work for you. So, excuse me if my comment is irrelevant to your goal. thank you for the hint. There is also an Android app of iGigbook! However, why buy something when you can do it by yourself, much more fun. My app does exactly (sic!) what I need. I also own "iReal Pro" for Mac which can output PDF if I need one and I also still own a printed version of the "Real Book I". :-) > Have fun, I definitively do! :-) > Bill > William A. Prothero, PhD > Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science > University of California, Santa Barbara Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From ahsoftware at sonic.net Fri Sep 15 14:26:21 2023 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 11:26:21 -0700 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <3534B370-3CB4-4356-AE01-C123407D3A73@major-k.de> References: <65E378B1-9BBA-48B0-A81B-DE2AEF2786E9@major-k.de> <2D38FE2A-05BA-43D7-BDB9-E25D275C1351@earthlearningsolutions.org> <3534B370-3CB4-4356-AE01-C123407D3A73@major-k.de> Message-ID: <7933bf4c-e74d-08cc-255f-2d9c4ed99452@sonic.net> On 9/15/23 10:13, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > I also own "iReal Pro" for Mac which can output PDF if I need one > and I also still own a printed version of the "Real Book I". :-) The only reason I have a 10" tablet is to run iRealPro on it. Hard to imagine doing without it. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From klaus at major-k.de Fri Sep 15 14:49:18 2023 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 20:49:18 +0200 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <7933bf4c-e74d-08cc-255f-2d9c4ed99452@sonic.net> References: <65E378B1-9BBA-48B0-A81B-DE2AEF2786E9@major-k.de> <2D38FE2A-05BA-43D7-BDB9-E25D275C1351@earthlearningsolutions.org> <3534B370-3CB4-4356-AE01-C123407D3A73@major-k.de> <7933bf4c-e74d-08cc-255f-2d9c4ed99452@sonic.net> Message-ID: <5B209DCA-0E6C-4D30-B8FA-067FA2F1BB1D@major-k.de> Hi Mark, > Am 15.09.2023 um 20:26 schrieb Mark Wieder via use-livecode : > On 9/15/23 10:13, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >> I also own "iReal Pro" for Mac which can output PDF if I need one >> and I also still own a printed version of the "Real Book I". :-) > The only reason I have a 10" tablet is to run iRealPro on it. > Hard to imagine doing without it. good boy! :-) > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org Fri Sep 15 14:56:05 2023 From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (William Prothero) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 11:56:05 -0700 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <5B209DCA-0E6C-4D30-B8FA-067FA2F1BB1D@major-k.de> References: <5B209DCA-0E6C-4D30-B8FA-067FA2F1BB1D@major-k.de> Message-ID: <23C5FB9A-C5AC-4B0F-ACE2-30375664FB73@earthlearningsolutions.org> Mark and Klaus, Wow, folks I didn't know were musicians! I use iReal Pro too. It's great for practice. And, easily transposes. But as a keyboard player, I use the notes of the tune to shape my solos. iReal Pro only has the chords. It's still useful, though. Best,🎶🎶🎶 Bill William A. Prothero, PhD Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science University of California, Santa Barbara > On Sep 15, 2023, at 11:50 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Mark, > >> Am 15.09.2023 um 20:26 schrieb Mark Wieder via use-livecode : >>> On 9/15/23 10:13, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >>> I also own "iReal Pro" for Mac which can output PDF if I need one >>> and I also still own a printed version of the "Real Book I". :-) >> The only reason I have a 10" tablet is to run iRealPro on it. >> Hard to imagine doing without it. > > good boy! :-) > >> -- >> Mark Wieder >> ahsoftware at gmail.com > > Best > > Klaus > > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > https://www.major-k.de/bass > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From tom at makeshyft.com Fri Sep 15 15:02:38 2023 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 15:02:38 -0400 Subject: Clipboard Copy Troubles? Message-ID: Heyall, Just wondering if anyone else has experienced issues where livecode stops being able to copy to the clipboard when using copy command from the menu or CTRL C or right click copy Specifically from within the script editor or a variable window. A LC restart seems to solve this temporarily. I've noticed this recently more than usual. On both mac and windows 11. Does this ring a bell to anyone? Thanks, Tom From ahsoftware at sonic.net Fri Sep 15 15:13:31 2023 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 12:13:31 -0700 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <23C5FB9A-C5AC-4B0F-ACE2-30375664FB73@earthlearningsolutions.org> References: <5B209DCA-0E6C-4D30-B8FA-067FA2F1BB1D@major-k.de> <23C5FB9A-C5AC-4B0F-ACE2-30375664FB73@earthlearningsolutions.org> Message-ID: <7beebee1-6cf3-76d5-009f-517297725b47@sonic.net> On 9/15/23 11:56, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote: > Mark and Klaus, > Wow, folks I didn't know were musicians! > I use iReal Pro too. It's great for practice. And, easily transposes. But as a keyboard player, I use the notes of the tune to shape my solos. iReal Pro only has the chords. It's still useful, though. OK - fair point about needing the notes. But as a bass player I'm usually more concerned with the horizontal movement of a tune. I have Real Books Vols 1,2,3 but that's a lot to carry to a gig. I use them at home and Band-in-a-box as well but for real-time improvising I find that iRealPro generally does the job. Or I can copy a page out of one of the Real Books and hope the wind doesn't carry it away . -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ahsoftware at sonic.net Fri Sep 15 15:15:27 2023 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 12:15:27 -0700 Subject: Clipboard Copy Troubles? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <97999ef1-7479-a5f9-03c3-7a68d1795488@sonic.net> On 9/15/23 12:02, Tom Glod via use-livecode wrote: > Heyall, > > Just wondering if anyone else has experienced issues where livecode stops > being able to copy to the clipboard when using copy command from the menu > or CTRL C or right click copy > Specifically from within the script editor or a variable window. > A LC restart seems to solve this temporarily. > I've noticed this recently more than usual. On both mac and windows 11. > > Does this ring a bell to anyone? Yep. I see this a lot. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From klaus at major-k.de Fri Sep 15 16:02:49 2023 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 22:02:49 +0200 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <23C5FB9A-C5AC-4B0F-ACE2-30375664FB73@earthlearningsolutions.org> References: <5B209DCA-0E6C-4D30-B8FA-067FA2F1BB1D@major-k.de> <23C5FB9A-C5AC-4B0F-ACE2-30375664FB73@earthlearningsolutions.org> Message-ID: <08FC6F1D-928D-485D-BF0F-D56030519BF7@major-k.de> Hi Bill, > Am 15.09.2023 um 20:56 schrieb William Prothero via use-livecode : > > Mark and Klaus, > Wow, folks I didn't know were musicians! take a look at my bass page, see signature. Lots of audio and video files. Don't worry, my site is in german and english. It is a bit outdated, but you'll get the picture. ;-) > I use iReal Pro too. It's great for practice. And, easily transposes. But as a keyboard player, I use the notes of the tune to shape my solos. iReal Pro only has the chords. It's still useful, though. Yep! > Best,🎶🎶🎶 > Bill Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Fri Sep 15 16:10:52 2023 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 16:10:52 -0400 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <23C5FB9A-C5AC-4B0F-ACE2-30375664FB73@earthlearningsolutions.org> References: <5B209DCA-0E6C-4D30-B8FA-067FA2F1BB1D@major-k.de> <23C5FB9A-C5AC-4B0F-ACE2-30375664FB73@earthlearningsolutions.org> Message-ID: <003201d9e810$bd72d300$38587900$@net> Does accordion count? Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of William Prothero via use-livecode Sent: Friday, September 15, 2023 2:56 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: William Prothero Subject: Re: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) Mark and Klaus, Wow, folks I didn't know were musicians! I use iReal Pro too. It's great for practice. And, easily transposes. But as a keyboard player, I use the notes of the tune to shape my solos. iReal Pro only has the chords. It's still useful, though. Best,🎶🎶 Bill William A. Prothero, PhD Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science University of California, Santa Barbara > On Sep 15, 2023, at 11:50 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Mark, > >> Am 15.09.2023 um 20:26 schrieb Mark Wieder via use-livecode : >>> On 9/15/23 10:13, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >>> I also own "iReal Pro" for Mac which can >>> output PDF if I need one and I also still own a printed version of >>> the "Real Book I". :-) >> The only reason I have a 10" tablet is to run iRealPro on it. >> Hard to imagine doing without it. > > good boy! :-) > >> -- >> Mark Wieder >> ahsoftware at gmail.com > > Best > > Klaus > > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > https://www.major-k.de/bass > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org Fri Sep 15 16:23:50 2023 From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (William Prothero) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 13:23:50 -0700 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <003201d9e810$bd72d300$38587900$@net> References: <003201d9e810$bd72d300$38587900$@net> Message-ID: Klaus, Very nice site and music. You're way above my skill level. I jam with friends a couple of times a week, but we are all retired and do it for fun and public performances are very rare. Best, Bill William A. Prothero, PhD Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science University of California, Santa Barbara > On Sep 15, 2023, at 1:11 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote: > > Does accordion count? > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of William Prothero via use-livecode > Sent: Friday, September 15, 2023 2:56 PM > To: How to use LiveCode > Cc: William Prothero > Subject: Re: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) > > Mark and Klaus, > Wow, folks I didn't know were musicians! > I use iReal Pro too. It's great for practice. And, easily transposes. But as a keyboard player, I use the notes of the tune to shape my solos. iReal Pro only has the chords. It's still useful, though. > > Best,🎶🎶 > Bill > > William A. Prothero, PhD > Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science > University of California, Santa Barbara > >> On Sep 15, 2023, at 11:50 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Hi Mark, >> >>> Am 15.09.2023 um 20:26 schrieb Mark Wieder via use-livecode : >>>>> On 9/15/23 10:13, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >>>>> I also own "iReal Pro" for Mac which can >>>>> output PDF if I need one and I also still own a printed version of >>>>> the "Real Book I". :-) >>> The only reason I have a 10" tablet is to run iRealPro on it. >>> Hard to imagine doing without it. >> >> good boy! :-) >> >>> -- >>> Mark Wieder >>> ahsoftware at gmail.com >> >> Best >> >> Klaus >> >> -- >> Klaus Major >> https://www.major-k.de >> https://www.major-k.de/bass >> klaus at major-k.de >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 15 16:46:56 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 20:46:56 +0000 Subject: Clipboard Copy Troubles? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Since I use my own menus, I had to create my own Edit menu. Here is the text of the edit menu and the scripting. This is actually a behavior I assign to all my Edit menu buttons. Replace the value for cHomeStack with the name of your own home stack. Note that you can add additional menu items to the text of the menu, then add a customMenuPick handler to the actual button script to process them. Cu&t/x &Copy/c &Paste/v C&lear/b Select &All/a - Settings... constant cHomeStack = "Forms Generator" on menuPick pItem put homeStack() into tMainStack put the selectedChunk into tChunk put value(tChunk) into tText put word -2 to -1 of tChunk into tTarget put the selectedObject into tRealTarget if word 1 of tTarget is "field" then put (the traversalOn of tTarget) and not (the locktext of tTarget) into tAllowEdits end if switch pItem case "Cut" if tText is not empty then \ set the clipboardData ["text"] to tText if tAllowEdits then put "put empty into" && tChunk into tCommand do tCommand end if break case "Copy" if tText is not empty then \ set the clipboardData ["text"] to tText break case "Paste" if tAllowEdits and the clipboardData ["text"] is not empty then \ put "put the clipboardData [text] into" && tChunk into tCommand do tCommand break case "Clear" if tAllowEdits then \ put "put empty into" && tChunk into tCommand do tCommand break case "Select All" try select char 1 to -1 of tTarget end try break case "Find" if there is a field "FindBar" then focus on field "FindBar" exit to top break case "Settings..." if there is a card "Settings" of stack me then go card "Settings" of stack me else go card "Settings" of stack homeStack() end if break default dispatch "customMenuPick" to me with pItem end switch pass menuPick end menuPick on customMenuPick pItem Return empty end customMenuPick getProp displayName -- code return "Sly Edits" end displayName function homeStack put "stack" && quote & cHomeStack & quote into tMainStack return tMainStack end homeStack > On Sep 15, 2023, at 12:02 PM, Tom Glod via use-livecode wrote: > > Heyall, > > Just wondering if anyone else has experienced issues where livecode stops > being able to copy to the clipboard when using copy command from the menu > or CTRL C or right click copy > Specifically from within the script editor or a variable window. > A LC restart seems to solve this temporarily. > I've noticed this recently more than usual. On both mac and windows 11. > > Does this ring a bell to anyone? > > Thanks, > > Tom > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From klaus at major-k.de Fri Sep 15 16:48:21 2023 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 22:48:21 +0200 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <003201d9e810$bd72d300$38587900$@net> References: <5B209DCA-0E6C-4D30-B8FA-067FA2F1BB1D@major-k.de> <23C5FB9A-C5AC-4B0F-ACE2-30375664FB73@earthlearningsolutions.org> <003201d9e810$bd72d300$38587900$@net> Message-ID: <8A467306-071C-48D8-9975-FD39C77F02C5@major-k.de> Hi Ralph, > Am 15.09.2023 um 22:10 schrieb Ralph DiMola via use-livecode : > > Does accordion count? it does! Since Al Yankowic... Just kiddin'. :-D > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of William Prothero via use-livecode > Sent: Friday, September 15, 2023 2:56 PM > To: How to use LiveCode > Cc: William Prothero > Subject: Re: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) > > Mark and Klaus, > Wow, folks I didn't know were musicians! > I use iReal Pro too. It's great for practice. And, easily transposes. But as a keyboard player, I use the notes of the tune to shape my solos. iReal Pro only has the chords. It's still useful, though. > > Best,🎶🎶 > Bill Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 15 16:50:21 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 20:50:21 +0000 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <23C5FB9A-C5AC-4B0F-ACE2-30375664FB73@earthlearningsolutions.org> References: <5B209DCA-0E6C-4D30-B8FA-067FA2F1BB1D@major-k.de> <23C5FB9A-C5AC-4B0F-ACE2-30375664FB73@earthlearningsolutions.org> Message-ID: <53068E58-8269-4ADF-A4D0-64F134111979@iotecdigital.com> I used to be a musician until I looked up one day and discovered that no one was listening. I guess people got used to the idea that music was just supposed to be background noise, and so they treated live musicians the same way. You see it in bars with live bands all the time. That is why I try to pay special attention to live bands and applaud loudly between every song. Unless they suck. ;-) Bob S > On Sep 15, 2023, at 11:56 AM, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote: > > Mark and Klaus, > Wow, folks I didn't know were musicians! > I use iReal Pro too. It's great for practice. And, easily transposes. But as a keyboard player, I use the notes of the tune to shape my solos. iReal Pro only has the chords. It's still useful, though. > > Best,🎶🎶🎶 > Bill > > William A. Prothero, PhD > Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science > University of California, Santa Barbara > >> On Sep 15, 2023, at 11:50 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Hi Mark, >> >>> Am 15.09.2023 um 20:26 schrieb Mark Wieder via use-livecode : >>>> On 9/15/23 10:13, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >>>> I also own "iReal Pro" for Mac which can output PDF if I need one >>>> and I also still own a printed version of the "Real Book I". :-) >>> The only reason I have a 10" tablet is to run iRealPro on it. >>> Hard to imagine doing without it. >> >> good boy! :-) >> >>> -- >>> Mark Wieder >>> ahsoftware at gmail.com >> >> Best >> >> Klaus >> >> -- >> Klaus Major >> https://www.major-k.de >> https://www.major-k.de/bass >> klaus at major-k.de >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Sep 15 19:16:14 2023 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 18:16:14 -0500 Subject: Clipboard Copy Troubles? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <18a9b216e30.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Yes, often. LC loses most of the editing shortcuts. It got fixed some versions ago and then lost them again. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On September 15, 2023 2:04:44 PM Tom Glod via use-livecode wrote: > Heyall, > > Just wondering if anyone else has experienced issues where livecode stops > being able to copy to the clipboard when using copy command from the menu > or CTRL C or right click copy > Specifically from within the script editor or a variable window. > A LC restart seems to solve this temporarily. > I've noticed this recently more than usual. On both mac and windows 11. > > Does this ring a bell to anyone? > > Thanks, > > Tom > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Fri Sep 15 21:11:32 2023 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2023 11:11:32 +1000 Subject: Encoding in LC server - the final piece of the puzzle Message-ID: With the help of forum readers I have textEncode/Decode working in LC Server so that I can handle file names with ute-8 encoding and talking to mysql in tongues. But now I want to produce html documents including Chinese characters encoded with utf-8, using LC Server to output an .lc file to publish on the web. I had naively thought that putting in the “” header at the top would do it, but no, LC Server apparently serves up html with charset=ISO-8859-1 (the native encoding) declared by default, and that overrides the header in the .lc file. The encoding declared was checked using "Rex Swains HTTP Viewer”. I am reasonably confident the actual content of the file is correct utf-8, since the Chinese glyphs are rendered as garbage ISO-Latin characters not as ???? The next step was adding a line such as AddCharset UTF-8 .lc to .htaccess. No help. I note that other web pages on the server are created by WordPress, and they have the charset=utf-8 declared. I presume I am ignorant of some environment setting which controls what HTTPHeader is declared in the output from LCServer? The obvious choice “the HTTPHeaders” but that is not the answer it seems. [I know I can get individual unicode characters to render using html escapes such as &x2304; even when the page is declared with a non-unicode encoding, but that is not a viable solution here.] Neville Smythe From ahsoftware at sonic.net Fri Sep 15 21:11:58 2023 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 18:11:58 -0700 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <53068E58-8269-4ADF-A4D0-64F134111979@iotecdigital.com> References: <5B209DCA-0E6C-4D30-B8FA-067FA2F1BB1D@major-k.de> <23C5FB9A-C5AC-4B0F-ACE2-30375664FB73@earthlearningsolutions.org> <53068E58-8269-4ADF-A4D0-64F134111979@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <125b5a69-078b-6927-83eb-6eee94c7af8f@sonic.net> On 9/15/23 13:50, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > I used to be a musician until I looked up one day and discovered that no one was listening. I guess people got used to the idea that music was just supposed to be background noise, and so they treated live musicians the same way. You see it in bars with live bands all the time. That is why I try to pay special attention to live bands and applaud loudly between every song. Unless they suck. ;-) I was at a wedding a few years ago and during the band's break the bandleader came up to me and said "you're a musician, right?" I asked how he knew and he said "you were paying attention while we played". What got to me was their medley of "La Vie en Rose"->"Samba de Orfeu". -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ahsoftware at sonic.net Fri Sep 15 21:12:30 2023 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 18:12:30 -0700 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <003201d9e810$bd72d300$38587900$@net> References: <5B209DCA-0E6C-4D30-B8FA-067FA2F1BB1D@major-k.de> <23C5FB9A-C5AC-4B0F-ACE2-30375664FB73@earthlearningsolutions.org> <003201d9e810$bd72d300$38587900$@net> Message-ID: On 9/15/23 13:10, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote: > Does accordion count? You know the definition of perfect pitch, right? -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From tom at makeshyft.com Fri Sep 15 21:41:33 2023 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 21:41:33 -0400 Subject: Clipboard Copy Troubles? In-Reply-To: <18a9b216e30.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <18a9b216e30.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Sigh. ok. thanks . Found this ...https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23507 but this could also be something different... "A bug that has been affecting livecode for a long time..." On Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 7:17 PM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Yes, often. LC loses most of the editing shortcuts. It got fixed some > versions ago and then lost them again. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > On September 15, 2023 2:04:44 PM Tom Glod via use-livecode > wrote: > > > Heyall, > > > > Just wondering if anyone else has experienced issues where livecode stops > > being able to copy to the clipboard when using copy command from the menu > > or CTRL C or right click copy > > Specifically from within the script editor or a variable window. > > A LC restart seems to solve this temporarily. > > I've noticed this recently more than usual. On both mac and windows 11. > > > > Does this ring a bell to anyone? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Tom > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 15 22:02:01 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2023 02:02:01 +0000 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: References: <5B209DCA-0E6C-4D30-B8FA-067FA2F1BB1D@major-k.de> <23C5FB9A-C5AC-4B0F-ACE2-30375664FB73@earthlearningsolutions.org> <003201d9e810$bd72d300$38587900$@net> Message-ID: Yes. It’s the one that no batter can hit. Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 15, 2023, at 18:14, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > > On 9/15/23 13:10, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote: >> Does accordion count? > > You know the definition of perfect pitch, right? > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From rabit at revigniter.com Sat Sep 16 05:50:40 2023 From: rabit at revigniter.com (Ralf Bitter) Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2023 11:50:40 +0200 Subject: Encoding in LC server - the final piece of the puzzle In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Neville, did you try: put header "Content-Type: text/html; charset=" & quote & "UTF-8" & quote before sending the output to the client? Ralf On 16.09.2023 03:11, Neville Smythe via use-livecode wrote: > With the help of forum readers I have textEncode/Decode working in LC Server so that I can handle file names with ute-8 encoding and talking to mysql in tongues. > > But now I want to produce html documents including Chinese characters encoded with utf-8, using LC Server to output an .lc file to publish on the web. I had naively thought that putting in the header at the top would do it, but no, LC Server apparently serves up html with charset=ISO-8859-1 (the native encoding) declared by default, and that overrides the header in the .lc file. The encoding declared was checked using "Rex Swains HTTP Viewer. I am reasonably confident the actual content of the file is correct utf-8, since the Chinese glyphs are rendered as garbage ISO-Latin characters not as ???? > > The next step was adding a line such as > > AddCharset UTF-8 .lc > > to .htaccess. No help. I note that other web pages on the server are created by WordPress, and they have the charset=utf-8 declared. > > I presume I am ignorant of some environment setting which controls what HTTPHeader is declared in the output from LCServer? The obvious choice the HTTPHeaders but that is not the answer it seems. > > [I know I can get individual unicode characters to render using html escapes such as &x2304; even when the page is declared with a non-unicode encoding, but that is not a viable solution here.] > > Neville Smythe From gcanyon at gmail.com Sat Sep 16 12:12:10 2023 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2023 12:12:10 -0400 Subject: Your scripts as a flowchart In-Reply-To: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> References: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> Message-ID: Does it not handle script-only stack behaviors? I get a blank display for Navigator (which has no code other than SoS behaviors). gc On Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 10:32 AM Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi all! > > Those frequenting the forums may have seen this already, but I thought I'd > share it here too now: > > If you want to see a graphic map of the inter-relations of all the > handlers in the scripts of your LiveCode projects, my tool > ScriptDependencies now features an extremely cool flowchart output (using > the Mermaid javascript lib). > > Here’s an example of how a script flowchart can look: > https://wheninspace.com/browseranimation/WIS_ScriptDependencies_example.png > > A few easy steps to test it on your own scripts: > > 1) Download ScriptDependencies here: > https://github.com/wheninspace/WIS_ScriptDepedencies/releases/latest > > 2) Open the stack, click the top left cog wheel and add at least one stack > (that has at least some handlers calling other handlers) to a project. > 3) Close the project pane and click "Start mapping and analysis”. > 4) Click ”Create flowchart”. Boom! :) > > On Mac, the browser widget can display the flowchart in-stack, enabling > some interactivity (click a node to highlight the arrows to and from it). > On Windows and Linux, where the browser widget has, er... room for > improvement…, the flowchart is instead displayed in an external browser > window (minus interactivity). > > My intention with ScriptDependencies is to provide a code analysis and > live documentation tool (of some kind) for LiveCode projects. I need it > myself for some big LC projects, and thought it might be useful also for > other LC devs. > > The tool has been thoroughly tested by LC veterans like bn (Bernd), jacque > (Jacqueline) and mwieder (Mike), who have all provided invaluable feedback > and improvement suggestions, bringing the tool up to quite a professional > level. > > I hope you’ll find use for it - or at least enjoy seeing your scripts > presented as a bouquet of flowers, a piece of art! :) > > Any feedback is very welcome! > > /Andreas > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Sep 16 13:34:13 2023 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2023 12:34:13 -0500 Subject: Your scripts as a flowchart In-Reply-To: References: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> Message-ID: <18a9f0eaa08.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> That happened to me too with a very long script. To keep everything in view there's a lot of white space. Keep scrolling. This happens only if you have set it to use unlimited sizing. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On September 16, 2023 11:15:00 AM Geoff Canyon via use-livecode wrote: > Does it not handle script-only stack behaviors? I get a blank display for > Navigator (which has no code other than SoS behaviors). > > gc > > On Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 10:32AM Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Hi all! >> >> Those frequenting the forums may have seen this already, but I thought I'd >> share it here too now: >> >> If you want to see a graphic map of the inter-relations of all the >> handlers in the scripts of your LiveCode projects, my tool >> ScriptDependencies now features an extremely cool flowchart output (using >> the Mermaid javascript lib). >> >> Heres an example of how a script flowchart can look: >> https://wheninspace.com/browseranimation/WIS_ScriptDependencies_example.png >> >> A few easy steps to test it on your own scripts: >> >> 1) Download ScriptDependencies here: >> https://github.com/wheninspace/WIS_ScriptDepedencies/releases/latest >> >> 2) Open the stack, click the top left cog wheel and add at least one stack >> (that has at least some handlers calling other handlers) to a project. >> 3) Close the project pane and click "Start mapping and analysis. >> 4) Click Create flowchart. Boom! :) >> >> On Mac, the browser widget can display the flowchart in-stack, enabling >> some interactivity (click a node to highlight the arrows to and from it). >> On Windows and Linux, where the browser widget has, er... room for >> improvement, the flowchart is instead displayed in an external browser >> window (minus interactivity). >> >> My intention with ScriptDependencies is to provide a code analysis and >> live documentation tool (of some kind) for LiveCode projects. I need it >> myself for some big LC projects, and thought it might be useful also for >> other LC devs. >> >> The tool has been thoroughly tested by LC veterans like bn (Bernd), jacque >> (Jacqueline) and mwieder (Mike), who have all provided invaluable feedback >> and improvement suggestions, bringing the tool up to quite a professional >> level. >> >> I hope youll find use for it - or at least enjoy seeing your scripts >> presented as a bouquet of flowers, a piece of art! :) >> >> Any feedback is very welcome! >> >> /Andreas >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From gcanyon at gmail.com Sat Sep 16 16:43:06 2023 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2023 16:43:06 -0400 Subject: Your scripts as a flowchart In-Reply-To: <18a9f0eaa08.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> <18a9f0eaa08.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: I didn't change anything before generating, and the flow chart is literally blank -- unless it: 1. scrolls invisibly 2. keeps returning the project name to the upper left while scrolling 3. has *at least* 30 screens' worth of blank space at the top? On Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 1:35 PM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > That happened to me too with a very long script. To keep everything in > view > there's a lot of white space. Keep scrolling. This happens only if you > have > set it to use unlimited sizing. > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > On September 16, 2023 11:15:00 AM Geoff Canyon via use-livecode > wrote: > > > Does it not handle script-only stack behaviors? I get a blank display for > > Navigator (which has no code other than SoS behaviors). > > > > gc > > > > On Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 10:32 AM Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > >> Hi all! > >> > >> Those frequenting the forums may have seen this already, but I thought > I'd > >> share it here too now: > >> > >> If you want to see a graphic map of the inter-relations of all the > >> handlers in the scripts of your LiveCode projects, my tool > >> ScriptDependencies now features an extremely cool flowchart output > (using > >> the Mermaid javascript lib). > >> > >> Here’s an example of how a script flowchart can look: > >> > https://wheninspace.com/browseranimation/WIS_ScriptDependencies_example.png > >> > >> A few easy steps to test it on your own scripts: > >> > >> 1) Download ScriptDependencies here: > >> https://github.com/wheninspace/WIS_ScriptDepedencies/releases/latest > >> > >> 2) Open the stack, click the top left cog wheel and add at least one > stack > >> (that has at least some handlers calling other handlers) to a project. > >> 3) Close the project pane and click "Start mapping and analysis”. > >> 4) Click ”Create flowchart”. Boom! :) > >> > >> On Mac, the browser widget can display the flowchart in-stack, enabling > >> some interactivity (click a node to highlight the arrows to and from > it). > >> On Windows and Linux, where the browser widget has, er... room for > >> improvement…, the flowchart is instead displayed in an external browser > >> window (minus interactivity). > >> > >> My intention with ScriptDependencies is to provide a code analysis and > >> live documentation tool (of some kind) for LiveCode projects. I need it > >> myself for some big LC projects, and thought it might be useful also for > >> other LC devs. > >> > >> The tool has been thoroughly tested by LC veterans like bn (Bernd), > jacque > >> (Jacqueline) and mwieder (Mike), who have all provided invaluable > feedback > >> and improvement suggestions, bringing the tool up to quite a > professional > >> level. > >> > >> I hope you’ll find use for it - or at least enjoy seeing your scripts > >> presented as a bouquet of flowers, a piece of art! :) > >> > >> Any feedback is very welcome! > >> > >> /Andreas > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com Sat Sep 16 18:23:07 2023 From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal) Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2023 00:23:07 +0200 Subject: Your scripts as a flowchart In-Reply-To: References: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> <18a9f0eaa08.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <023C9AEA-7B3A-455E-B6DC-18164BBF04B5@gmail.com> As long as you include all the script-only stacks in the analysis, they will be handled. The tool will not look for behaviors and auto-include them. Every stack that has relevant code must be included manually in the project pane. If you have many SoSs, you can quickly add them all by adding the whole folder they are in. How many handlers does the analysis find? /Andreas > 16 sep. 2023 kl. 22:43 skrev Geoff Canyon via use-livecode : > > I didn't change anything before generating, and the flow chart is literally > blank -- unless it: > > 1. scrolls invisibly > 2. keeps returning the project name to the upper left while scrolling > 3. has *at least* 30 screens' worth of blank space at the top? > > On Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 1:35 PM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> That happened to me too with a very long script. To keep everything in >> view >> there's a lot of white space. Keep scrolling. This happens only if you >> have >> set it to use unlimited sizing. >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> On September 16, 2023 11:15:00 AM Geoff Canyon via use-livecode >> wrote: >> >>> Does it not handle script-only stack behaviors? I get a blank display for >>> Navigator (which has no code other than SoS behaviors). >>> >>> gc From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Sat Sep 16 19:56:36 2023 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2023 09:56:36 +1000 Subject: Encoding in LC server - the final piece of the puzzle Message-ID: <41998E45-CFDD-4B1F-BED4-BBF641974CDD@optusnet.com.au> Ralf wrote > did you try: > > put header "Content-Type: text/html; charset=" & quote & "UTF-8" & quote > > before sending the output to the client? That sounds exactly like the incantation I needed. But I can’t get it to work. The first 3 lines of my webPage.lc file are (Not sure that 3rd line is necessary with HTML5, but presumably it couldn’t hurt) The header suggested just seems to be ignored when LC Server sends the output to Apache. (Tried it with “put new header…” too after I found some documentation for the magic spell.) The default setting for Apache on Dreamhost is naturally the native encoding ISO-8859-1.(Is there any way to override that with htaccess, since all my WordPress pages are served as utf-8 already?) Neville Smythe From gcanyon at gmail.com Sat Sep 16 20:04:38 2023 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2023 20:04:38 -0400 Subject: Your scripts as a flowchart In-Reply-To: <023C9AEA-7B3A-455E-B6DC-18164BBF04B5@gmail.com> References: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> <18a9f0eaa08.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <023C9AEA-7B3A-455E-B6DC-18164BBF04B5@gmail.com> Message-ID: Ah, okay, that explains it. In Navigator, *everything* is a script-only stack behavior. In a few of the substacks there are scripts for a few template objects or where script-only-stack behaviors were inconvenient (I don't remember why, honestly). That has it working, and the resulting diagram is nice. Navigator does a similar survey (without the visualization, that's a neat trick). Navigator reports: 302986 characters in 8092 lines in 112 scripts in 885 objects. ScriptDependencies reports: 341 unique handler names - 407 commands, 124 functions, 1 setProps regards, Geoff On Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 6:24 PM Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > As long as you include all the script-only stacks in the analysis, they > will be handled. > The tool will not look for behaviors and auto-include them. Every stack > that has relevant code must be included manually in the project pane. If > you have many SoSs, you can quickly add them all by adding the whole folder > they are in. > > How many handlers does the analysis find? > > /Andreas > > > > 16 sep. 2023 kl. 22:43 skrev Geoff Canyon via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: > > > > I didn't change anything before generating, and the flow chart is > literally > > blank -- unless it: > > > > 1. scrolls invisibly > > 2. keeps returning the project name to the upper left while scrolling > > 3. has *at least* 30 screens' worth of blank space at the top? > > > > On Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 1:35 PM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > >> That happened to me too with a very long script. To keep everything in > >> view > >> there's a lot of white space. Keep scrolling. This happens only if you > >> have > >> set it to use unlimited sizing. > >> -- > >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > >> On September 16, 2023 11:15:00 AM Geoff Canyon via use-livecode > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Does it not handle script-only stack behaviors? I get a blank display > for > >>> Navigator (which has no code other than SoS behaviors). > >>> > >>> gc > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From rabit at revigniter.com Sun Sep 17 06:31:12 2023 From: rabit at revigniter.com (Ralf Bitter) Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2023 12:31:12 +0200 Subject: Encoding in LC server - the final piece of the puzzle In-Reply-To: <41998E45-CFDD-4B1F-BED4-BBF641974CDD@optusnet.com.au> References: <41998E45-CFDD-4B1F-BED4-BBF641974CDD@optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: Neville, you need to send the header before outputting anything else. So, this means your LC server script should send the header and then the HTML data. Ralf On 17.09.2023 01:56, Neville Smythe via use-livecode wrote: > > Ralf wrote >> did you try: >> >> put header "Content-Type: text/html; charset=" & quote & "UTF-8" & quote >> >> before sending the output to the client? > > > That sounds exactly like the incantation I needed. > > But I cant get it to work. > > The first 3 lines of my webPage.lc file are > > > > > > (Not sure that 3rd line is necessary with HTML5, but presumably it couldnt hurt) > > The header suggested just seems to be ignored when LC Server sends the output to Apache. (Tried it with put new header too after I found some documentation for the magic spell.) > > The default setting for Apache on Dreamhost is naturally the native encoding ISO-8859-1.(Is there any way to override that with htaccess, since all my WordPress pages are served as utf-8 already?) > > Neville Smythe From jbv at souslelogo.com Sun Sep 17 08:32:35 2023 From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com) Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2023 08:32:35 -0400 Subject: revXML and UTF-8 Message-ID: Hi list, I have a text file encoded in UTF-8. Each line of the file is an xml node with several sub-nodes and attributes. I have a loop in LC that reads lines one by one and creates an xml tree with revXMLCreateTree. The goal is to parse each line and extract some data. The problem is that, when for instance data is japanese or chinese characters, the data always outputs as ????. When opening the file I use : open file myFile for UTF8 read I tried to insert before each line : and also : put textEncode(myLine,"UTF8") into myLine Is there a way to declare an xml tree as UTF-8 ? Thank you in advance, jbv From paul at researchware.com Sun Sep 17 09:32:13 2023 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2023 09:32:13 -0400 Subject: revXML and UTF-8 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <579a4a01-f82e-e472-0929-6d63d4fb6990@researchware.com> There are a number of "rev" libraries (revXML, revZIP, perhaps others) that are not fully Unicode compatible. See: https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18942 (revXML, revZIP) https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22202 (revZIP) ... and possibly others. There are no work-arounds for not being Unicode compatible (at least none I know of). In my opinion, bugs with no work-around should be among LC's higher priorities for bug fixes. On 9/17/2023 8:32 AM, jbv via use-livecode wrote: > Hi list, > > I have a text file encoded in UTF-8. Each line of the file > is an xml node with several sub-nodes and attributes. > > I have a loop in LC that reads lines one by one and creates > an xml tree with revXMLCreateTree. The goal is to parse each > line and extract some data. > > The problem is that, when for instance data is japanese or > chinese characters, the data always outputs as ????. > > When opening the file I use : > open file myFile for UTF8 read > > I tried to insert before each line : > > > and also : > put textEncode(myLine,"UTF8") into myLine > > Is there a way to declare an xml tree as UTF-8 ? > > Thank you in advance, > jbv > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jbv at souslelogo.com Sun Sep 17 11:04:59 2023 From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com) Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2023 11:04:59 -0400 Subject: revXML and UTF-8 In-Reply-To: <579a4a01-f82e-e472-0929-6d63d4fb6990@researchware.com> References: <579a4a01-f82e-e472-0929-6d63d4fb6990@researchware.com> Message-ID: <6d3e167178e3b39e25a024747ccdba6a@souslelogo.com> Thank you for your reply. I found a workaround, but not a very elegant one : when xml parsing returns some "????", I start the parsing again, but I process the line as plain text and not as xml. It's about as fast. Le 2023-09-17 09:32, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode a crit : > There are a number of "rev" libraries (revXML, revZIP, perhaps others) > that are not fully Unicode compatible. > > See: > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18942 (revXML, revZIP) > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22202 (revZIP) > > ... and possibly others. There are no work-arounds for not being > Unicode compatible (at least none I know of). In my opinion, bugs with > no work-around should be among LC's higher priorities for bug fixes. > > > On 9/17/2023 8:32 AM, jbv via use-livecode wrote: >> Hi list, >> >> I have a text file encoded in UTF-8. Each line of the file >> is an xml node with several sub-nodes and attributes. >> >> I have a loop in LC that reads lines one by one and creates >> an xml tree with revXMLCreateTree. The goal is to parse each >> line and extract some data. >> >> The problem is that, when for instance data is japanese or >> chinese characters, the data always outputs as ????. >> >> When opening the file I use : >> open file myFile for UTF8 read >> >> I tried to insert before each line : >> >> >> and also : >> put textEncode(myLine,"UTF8") into myLine >> >> Is there a way to declare an xml tree as UTF-8 ? >> >> Thank you in advance, >> jbv >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From harrison at all-auctions.com Sun Sep 17 14:35:46 2023 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com) Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2023 14:35:46 -0400 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: References: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> <18a9f0eaa08.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <0A9CBCE4-2810-44C9-9812-300D6166C5E2@all-auctions.com> Has anyone built Forum Software with LiveCode? There are a lot of PHP ones, but I have yet to find one that was built with LiveCode. PHP is hacked all the time, and I have found hacker bots that try to hack my server all the time by exploiting holes in PHP. They even try to install PHP on my server so they can then use it to hack my server! I think Forum Software built with LiveCode could be more secure, but I don’t want to build it myself if someone has already created it. Suggestions? Thanks, Rick From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Sun Sep 17 19:58:22 2023 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2023 09:58:22 +1000 Subject: Encoding in LC server - the final piece of the puzzle Message-ID: <2B2FF5F2-A672-4196-982A-4DF0DF6C0B38@optusnet.com.au> So all I had to do was move that “put header..” to the first line of the script, and abracadabra, all is now working. Many many thanks Ralf, I think I have a smidgeon better understanding of how LC interacts with Apache. Ralf wrote > did you try: > > put header "Content-Type: text/html; charset=" & quote & "UTF-8" & quote > > ***before*** [my emphasis] sending the [html] output to the client? Neville Smythe From gcanyon at gmail.com Sun Sep 17 21:38:42 2023 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2023 21:38:42 -0400 Subject: Your scripts as a flowchart In-Reply-To: References: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> <18a9f0eaa08.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <023C9AEA-7B3A-455E-B6DC-18164BBF04B5@gmail.com> Message-ID: Is there a way to export the entire flowchart, instead of just the portion currently displayed? As an aside, I don't know whether to be proud or horrified at the map Navigator produces... On Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 8:04 PM Geoff Canyon wrote: > Ah, okay, that explains it. In Navigator, *everything* is a script-only > stack behavior. In a few of the substacks there are scripts for a few > template objects or where script-only-stack behaviors were inconvenient (I > don't remember why, honestly). > > That has it working, and the resulting diagram is nice. Navigator does a > similar survey (without the visualization, that's a neat trick). > > Navigator reports: > > 302986 characters in > 8092 lines in > 112 scripts in > 885 objects. > > ScriptDependencies reports: > > 341 unique handler names - 407 commands, 124 functions, 1 setProps > > regards, > > Geoff > > On Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 6:24 PM Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> As long as you include all the script-only stacks in the analysis, they >> will be handled. >> The tool will not look for behaviors and auto-include them. Every stack >> that has relevant code must be included manually in the project pane. If >> you have many SoSs, you can quickly add them all by adding the whole folder >> they are in. >> >> How many handlers does the analysis find? >> >> /Andreas >> >> >> > 16 sep. 2023 kl. 22:43 skrev Geoff Canyon via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: >> > >> > I didn't change anything before generating, and the flow chart is >> literally >> > blank -- unless it: >> > >> > 1. scrolls invisibly >> > 2. keeps returning the project name to the upper left while scrolling >> > 3. has *at least* 30 screens' worth of blank space at the top? >> > >> > On Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 1:35 PM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < >> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> > >> >> That happened to me too with a very long script. To keep everything in >> >> view >> >> there's a lot of white space. Keep scrolling. This happens only if you >> >> have >> >> set it to use unlimited sizing. >> >> -- >> >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> >> On September 16, 2023 11:15:00 AM Geoff Canyon via use-livecode >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >>> Does it not handle script-only stack behaviors? I get a blank display >> for >> >>> Navigator (which has no code other than SoS behaviors). >> >>> >> >>> gc >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Sun Sep 17 22:23:27 2023 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2023 22:23:27 -0400 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: References: <5B209DCA-0E6C-4D30-B8FA-067FA2F1BB1D@major-k.de> <23C5FB9A-C5AC-4B0F-ACE2-30375664FB73@earthlearningsolutions.org> <003201d9e810$bd72d300$38587900$@net> Message-ID: <003601d9e9d7$1e68b7c0$5b3a2740$@net> Was invited to an experimental Jazz show yesterday. I finally realized that all jazz is experimental. "Jazz is not dead it just smells funny" Frank Zappa What do you call a person who hangs out with musicians? Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Bob Sneidar via use-livecode Sent: Friday, September 15, 2023 10:02 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Bob Sneidar Subject: Re: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) Yes. It’s the one that no batter can hit. Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 15, 2023, at 18:14, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > > On 9/15/23 13:10, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote: >> Does accordion count? > > You know the definition of perfect pitch, right? > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com Mon Sep 18 08:09:40 2023 From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2023 14:09:40 +0200 Subject: Your scripts as a flowchart In-Reply-To: References: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> <18a9f0eaa08.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <023C9AEA-7B3A-455E-B6DC-18164BBF04B5@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8D1EE25E-8334-44C2-B451-F17F281AFC52@gmail.com> Getting a full export is a tricky business, and I’m looking at various solutions. The easiest workaround is to launch the flowchart in a web browser and print to PDF from there. On Windows/Linux the flowchart is shown that way anyway, and on Mac you load it in a web browser by shift-clicking the Create flowchart button. The obvious downside of printing to pdf is that you get page breaks that split up the flowchart. Another workaround is to paste the Mermaid code into an online editor like https://mermaid.live and then export to PNG from there. What looks more promising for actually solving it in-stack though, is using the command-line interface (CLI) for Mermaid to generate an svg/png/pdf file: https://github.com/mermaid-js/mermaid-cli I’ll experiment with that and see what I can come up with. :) > As an aside, I don't know whether to be proud or horrified at the map > Navigator produces… Yeah, I know the feeling… :D /Andreas > 18 sep. 2023 kl. 03:38 skrev Geoff Canyon via use-livecode : > > Is there a way to export the entire flowchart, instead of just the portion > currently displayed? > > As an aside, I don't know whether to be proud or horrified at the map > Navigator produces... > > On Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 8:04 PM Geoff Canyon wrote: > >> Ah, okay, that explains it. In Navigator, *everything* is a script-only >> stack behavior. In a few of the substacks there are scripts for a few >> template objects or where script-only-stack behaviors were inconvenient (I >> don't remember why, honestly). >> >> That has it working, and the resulting diagram is nice. Navigator does a >> similar survey (without the visualization, that's a neat trick). >> >> Navigator reports: >> >> 302986 characters in >> 8092 lines in >> 112 scripts in >> 885 objects. >> >> ScriptDependencies reports: >> >> 341 unique handler names - 407 commands, 124 functions, 1 setProps >> >> regards, >> >> Geoff >> >> On Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 6:24 PM Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>> As long as you include all the script-only stacks in the analysis, they >>> will be handled. >>> The tool will not look for behaviors and auto-include them. Every stack >>> that has relevant code must be included manually in the project pane. If >>> you have many SoSs, you can quickly add them all by adding the whole folder >>> they are in. >>> >>> How many handlers does the analysis find? >>> >>> /Andreas >>> >>> >>>> 16 sep. 2023 kl. 22:43 skrev Geoff Canyon via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: >>>> >>>> I didn't change anything before generating, and the flow chart is >>> literally >>>> blank -- unless it: >>>> >>>> 1. scrolls invisibly >>>> 2. keeps returning the project name to the upper left while scrolling >>>> 3. has *at least* 30 screens' worth of blank space at the top? >>>> >>>> On Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 1:35 PM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> That happened to me too with a very long script. To keep everything in >>>>> view >>>>> there's a lot of white space. Keep scrolling. This happens only if you >>>>> have >>>>> set it to use unlimited sizing. >>>>> -- >>>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>>>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>>>> On September 16, 2023 11:15:00 AM Geoff Canyon via use-livecode >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Does it not handle script-only stack behaviors? I get a blank display >>> for >>>>>> Navigator (which has no code other than SoS behaviors). >>>>>> >>>>>> gc >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org Mon Sep 18 11:20:12 2023 From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (William Prothero) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2023 08:20:12 -0700 Subject: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) In-Reply-To: <003601d9e9d7$1e68b7c0$5b3a2740$@net> References: <003601d9e9d7$1e68b7c0$5b3a2740$@net> Message-ID: <4F0DA6FD-E972-4084-A222-924B335DC4AC@earthlearningsolutions.org> Ralph: Noteworthy?🎶🎶🎶 Bill William A. Prothero, PhD Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science University of California, Santa Barbara > On Sep 17, 2023, at 2:24 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote: > > Was invited to an experimental Jazz show yesterday. I finally realized that all jazz is experimental. > > "Jazz is not dead it just smells funny" > Frank Zappa > > > What do you call a person who hangs out with musicians? > > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Bob Sneidar via use-livecode > Sent: Friday, September 15, 2023 10:02 PM > To: How to use LiveCode > Cc: Bob Sneidar > Subject: Re: Android ANR (App not responding | Jacque was right :-) > > Yes. It’s the one that no batter can hit. > > Sent from my iPhone > >>> On Sep 15, 2023, at 18:14, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> On 9/15/23 13:10, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote: >>> Does accordion count? >> >> You know the definition of perfect pitch, right? >> >> -- >> Mark Wieder >> ahsoftware at gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Sep 18 13:57:13 2023 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2023 17:57:13 +0000 Subject: Forum Software LC? Message-ID: <20230918175713.Horde.fSxt5xRFtEQ7n6s2Ul9IXLB@hub.4wsys.com> Rick Harrison wrote: > Has anyone built Forum Software with LiveCode? There are a lot of PHP > ones, but I have yet to find one that was built with LiveCode. PHP is > hacked all the time, and I have found hacker bots that try to hack my > server all the time by exploiting holes in PHP.  They even try to install > PHP on my server so they can then use it to hack my server! I think > Forum Software built with LiveCode could be more secure, but I dont > want to build it myself if someone has already created it. Suggestions?   Don't build it yourself. It's a lot of work.  Software is almost always more affordable to buy than build, and most forum packages these days are FOSS and free of cost. Crafting the user experience alone would take months to do well.  And if you think security is lacking in established packages see what happens when you roll your own. ;)   Use Discourse.  There are others, but Discourse is currently the go-to choice for new forums.  Great UX, open source.   Another option that's become increasingly popular is to ditch hosting your own forum altogether and using Discord instead. Forums can be set up there for free, with native mobile apps available and rich APIs if you need to customize anything.   --   Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems   From andre at andregarzia.com Mon Sep 18 14:52:27 2023 From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2023 19:52:27 +0100 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: <20230918175713.Horde.fSxt5xRFtEQ7n6s2Ul9IXLB@hub.4wsys.com> References: <20230918175713.Horde.fSxt5xRFtEQ7n6s2Ul9IXLB@hub.4wsys.com> Message-ID: Just be aware that discord has horrible threading. Never run your own stuff on the web unless you’re really sure what you’re doing (unless it is read-only stuff). Preventing SQL and Scripting injection is not a trivial thing to do and in that sense LiveCode and PHP are kinda the same. Doing a forum in LiveCode is a cool experience and will teach you a lot, but if you’re gonna do it, you will need to be prepared to get really good into other aspects of development beyond LiveCode. You’ll need a very good grasp of Web technologies such as HTML, CSS, JS. You will also need a good understanding of servers, protocols, and databases. As Richard said, it is not an easy project. > On 18 Sep 2023, at 18:57, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > Rick Harrison wrote: >> Has anyone built Forum Software with LiveCode? > There are a lot of PHP >> ones, but I have yet to > find one that was built with LiveCode. > > PHP is >> hacked all the time, and I have found > hacker bots that try to hack my >> server all > the time by exploiting holes in PHP. They > even try to install >> PHP on my server so they > can then use it to hack my server! > > I think >> Forum Software built with LiveCode > could be more secure, but I don’t >> want to > build it myself if someone has already > created it. > > Suggestions? > > > Don't build it yourself. It's a lot of work. Software is almost always more affordable to buy than build, and most forum packages these days are FOSS and free of cost. > > Crafting the user experience alone would take months to do well. And if you think security is lacking in established packages see what happens when you roll your own. ;) > > Use Discourse. There are others, but Discourse is currently the go-to choice for new forums. Great UX, open source. > > Another option that's become increasingly popular is to ditch hosting your own forum altogether and using Discord instead. Forums can be set up there for free, with native mobile apps available and rich APIs if you need to customize anything. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From harrison at all-auctions.com Mon Sep 18 15:29:04 2023 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2023 15:29:04 -0400 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: <20230918175713.Horde.fSxt5xRFtEQ7n6s2Ul9IXLB@hub.4wsys.com> References: <20230918175713.Horde.fSxt5xRFtEQ7n6s2Ul9IXLB@hub.4wsys.com> Message-ID: Hi Richard, Why is Discourse better than Dat-course? LOL Discourse is $50 per month! No free option for that. Thanks for your input. Rick > On Sep 18, 2023, at 1:57 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > > Don't build it yourself. It's a lot of work. Software is almost always more affordable to buy than build, and most forum packages these days are FOSS and free of cost. > > Crafting the user experience alone would take months to do well. And if you think security is lacking in established packages see what happens when you roll your own. ;) > > Use Discourse. There are others, but Discourse is currently the go-to choice for new forums. Great UX, open source. > > Another option that's become increasingly popular is to ditch hosting your own forum altogether and using Discord instead. Forums can be set up there for free, with native mobile apps available and rich APIs if you need to customize anything. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems From harrison at all-auctions.com Mon Sep 18 15:50:27 2023 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2023 15:50:27 -0400 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: References: <20230918175713.Horde.fSxt5xRFtEQ7n6s2Ul9IXLB@hub.4wsys.com> Message-ID: <61AE1F62-E9DD-402E-8AF0-93240C80FB60@all-auctions.com> Hi Andre, I have already worked with all of those for years. Thanks for the warning anyway. Rick > On Sep 18, 2023, at 2:52 PM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode wrote: > > You’ll need a very good grasp of Web technologies such as HTML, CSS, JS. You will also need a good understanding of servers, protocols, and databases. From bogdanoff at me.com Tue Sep 19 16:41:40 2023 From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2023 13:41:40 -0700 Subject: Alternate key commands in LC ???? Message-ID: <62398573-7F94-4153-9275-C2D64B2B2577@me.com> Reading this article about the MacOS copy and paste: https://tidbits.com/2016/06/11/os-x-hidden-treasures-copy-and-paste/ It mentions the (secret) OS X alternate clipboard — kill and yank — that uses control-K to kill (cut) and control-Y to yank (paste) in some MacOS apps. Comes from the Emacs text editor (that was a loooong time ago). I tried it in an LC field and discovered some unknowns-to-me: Control-K does kill (cut) selected text Control-Y does not seem to do anything—does not yank (paste) (I haven’t yet figured out how to yank-paste killed-cut text) Control-K without a selection but the cursor placed within a line of text kills (cuts) all the text after the cursor/insertion point Put the cursor somewhere within a line/paragraph of text and Control-A moves the cursor to the beginning of the paragraph Control-E moves the cursor to the end of the paragraph Control-F moves the cursor one character to the right Control-O does a weird thing of adding a carriage return after the cursor and simultaneously moves the cursor to the left one character, so you can easily end up with something like: c h a r a c t e r Maybe there’s more? Windows? Peter Bogdanoff From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Sep 20 01:33:34 2023 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2023 08:33:34 +0300 Subject: Alternate key commands in LC ???? In-Reply-To: <62398573-7F94-4153-9275-C2D64B2B2577@me.com> References: <62398573-7F94-4153-9275-C2D64B2B2577@me.com> Message-ID: As I use computers running Linux and MacOS, my Macs are set up so the roles of the CMD and CTRL keys are reversed. It will be interesting to see if it affects these alternate key commands with the IDE. On Tue, 19 Sept 2023, 23:42 Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode, < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Reading this article about the MacOS copy and paste: > https://tidbits.com/2016/06/11/os-x-hidden-treasures-copy-and-paste/ > > It mentions the (secret) OS X alternate clipboard — kill and yank — that > uses control-K to kill (cut) and control-Y to yank (paste) in some MacOS > apps. Comes from the Emacs text editor (that was a loooong time ago). > > I tried it in an LC field and discovered some unknowns-to-me: > > Control-K does kill (cut) selected text > Control-Y does not seem to do anything—does not yank (paste) > (I haven’t yet figured out how to yank-paste killed-cut text) > Control-K without a selection but the cursor placed within a line of text > kills (cuts) all the text after the cursor/insertion point > > Put the cursor somewhere within a line/paragraph of text and Control-A > moves the cursor to the beginning of the paragraph > Control-E moves the cursor to the end of the paragraph > Control-F moves the cursor one character to the right > > Control-O does a weird thing of adding a carriage return after the cursor > and simultaneously moves the cursor to the left one character, so you can > easily end up with something like: > > c > h > a > r > a > c > t > e > r > > Maybe there’s more? Windows? > > Peter Bogdanoff > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Sep 20 11:38:56 2023 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2023 08:38:56 -0700 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5186c1aa-d7ab-79c0-d3ce-67bf5b7b2116@fourthworld.com> Rick Harrison wrote: > On Sep 18, 2023, at 1:57 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> >> Use Discourse. There are others, but Discourse is currently the >> go-to choice for new forums. Great UX, open source. > > Discourse is $50 per month! No free option for that. If you want the core team to also host and support it, yes, you can hire them to do that for a monthly fee. And for less than the cost of an hour's billable time, having their team handle everything can be a good value. The project is open source, so you can also host it yourself: https://github.com/discourse/discourse/blob/main/docs/INSTALL-cloud.md -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Sep 20 11:51:56 2023 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2023 08:51:56 -0700 Subject: LC domain for sale: livecodeworld.com Message-ID: <78e95779-1aca-d77a-8e67-f58524c5a767@fourthworld.com> I had two extra LC-related domains, one of them sold quickly to a member of our community, and I have one remaining: livecodeworld.com I'd taken out the domain with the vision of using it to replace livecodejournal.com, but for SEO reasons I've decided to build out going forward on that older domain instead. If there are no takers here I'll see if someone outside the LC community wants it. "Live coding" and "#livecode" are popular terms for the practice of coding live for a streaming audience. But like the other domain I'd sold a few weeks ago, I wanted to make this available to the LC community first. If interested the domain is listed at AfterNIC.com, and I'd be happy to discuss favorable pricing if you have a community-oriented use in mind. We did the last domain sale with a trusted community member, so we were able to streamline quick transfer. I would do the same with just about any member of this list. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems From harrison at all-auctions.com Wed Sep 20 12:09:29 2023 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2023 12:09:29 -0400 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: <5186c1aa-d7ab-79c0-d3ce-67bf5b7b2116@fourthworld.com> References: <5186c1aa-d7ab-79c0-d3ce-67bf5b7b2116@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Hi Richard, Thanks for the additional information. If I host it myself do I pay anything, or it is free? Thanks, Rick > On Sep 20, 2023, at 11:38 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > If you want the core team to also host and support it, yes, you can hire them to do that for a monthly fee. And for less than the cost of an hour's billable time, having their team handle everything can be a good value. > > The project is open source, so you can also host it yourself: > > https://github.com/discourse/discourse/blob/main/docs/INSTALL-cloud.md From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Sep 20 14:40:54 2023 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2023 11:40:54 -0700 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <57cbe1ea-ff4f-01c8-b223-08798ce35f2e@fourthworld.com> Rick Harrison wrote: > On Sep 20, 2023, at 11:38 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> >> The project is open source, so you can also host it yourself: >> >> https://github.com/discourse/discourse/blob/main/docs/INSTALL-cloud.md > > > Thanks for the additional information. > > If I host it myself do I pay anything, or it is free? It's free as in both freedom and beer. From the COPYRIGHT.md file in the archive I linked to above: This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or (at your option) any later version. That said, I'm sure they don't mind contributions to the project, in code or cash. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org Wed Sep 20 14:52:54 2023 From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (William Prothero) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2023 11:52:54 -0700 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: <5186c1aa-d7ab-79c0-d3ce-67bf5b7b2116@fourthworld.com> References: <5186c1aa-d7ab-79c0-d3ce-67bf5b7b2116@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <9C0367DF-5847-4A74-B9A4-B8FDEE714323@earthlearningsolutions.org> Richard, Thanks so much for the link to the installation instructions for discourse. I've been thinking about installing a forum. If I do the installation myself, will there be a cost, other than the domain name? Best, Bill William A. Prothero, PhD Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science University of California, Santa Barbara > On Sep 20, 2023, at 8:40 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > Rick Harrison wrote: > > > On Sep 18, 2023, at 1:57 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> > >> Use Discourse. There are others, but Discourse is currently the > >> go-to choice for new forums. Great UX, open source. > > > > Discourse is $50 per month! No free option for that. > > If you want the core team to also host and support it, yes, you can hire them to do that for a monthly fee. And for less than the cost of an hour's billable time, having their team handle everything can be a good value. > > The project is open source, so you can also host it yourself: > > https://github.com/discourse/discourse/blob/main/docs/INSTALL-cloud.md > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From harrison at all-auctions.com Thu Sep 21 09:32:56 2023 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2023 09:32:56 -0400 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: <57cbe1ea-ff4f-01c8-b223-08798ce35f2e@fourthworld.com> References: <57cbe1ea-ff4f-01c8-b223-08798ce35f2e@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Hi Richard, Thanks for the clarification on this. Rick > On Sep 20, 2023, at 2:40 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > It's free as in both freedom and beer. > > From the COPYRIGHT.md file in the archive I linked to above: > > This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or > modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License > as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version > 2 of the License, or (at your option) any later version. > > > That said, I'm sure they don't mind contributions to the project, in code or cash. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Sep 21 11:09:13 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2023 15:09:13 +0000 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: References: <57cbe1ea-ff4f-01c8-b223-08798ce35f2e@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <013BD2B1-A3D3-4703-9D07-6C40274A7C79@iotecdigital.com> Erm… neither of those are free. :-) Bob S It's free as in both freedom and beer. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Sep 21 16:59:40 2023 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2023 20:59:40 +0000 Subject: Forum Software LC? Message-ID: <20230921205940.Horde.swKB5tu4gXLc9nlFtUFJlp8@hub.4wsys.com> Bob Sneidar wrote: > Erm neither of those are free. :-)   Please explain.   https://github.com/discourse/discourse/blob/main/docs/INSTALL-cloud.md https://discord.com/blog/starting-your-first-discord-server   -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems   From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Sep 21 18:02:58 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2023 22:02:58 +0000 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: <20230921205940.Horde.swKB5tu4gXLc9nlFtUFJlp8@hub.4wsys.com> References: <20230921205940.Horde.swKB5tu4gXLc9nlFtUFJlp8@hub.4wsys.com> Message-ID: <2DC7CE02-C183-487D-8EEB-6220CB98B507@iotecdigital.com> Well, if I go to my bartender and ask for a free beer, I might get one, but then the bartender or the owner has to pay for it. As for freedom, everyone I think knows that our freedoms are purchased at a precious price. Bob S On Sep 21, 2023, at 1:59 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: Bob Sneidar wrote: Erm… neither of those are free. :-) Please explain. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Sep 21 18:34:59 2023 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2023 22:34:59 +0000 Subject: Forum Software LC? Message-ID: <20230921223459.Horde.RRdKlo8Kin-v6rz9PGO5WV2@hub.4wsys.com> Bob Sneidar wrote: > Richard Gaskin wrote: >> >> Bob Sneidar wrote: >>> Erm neither of those are free. :-) >> >> Please explain. >> https://github.com/discourse/discourse/blob/main/docs/INSTALL-cloud.md >> https://discord.com/blog/starting-your-first-discord-server > > > Well, if I go to my bartender and ask for a free beer, I might get one, > but then the bartender or the owner has to pay for it.   True. These systems are popular enough that there's enough who choose to pay for optional premium services so the rest remains free of cost for everyone else. > As for freedom, everyone I think knows that our freedoms are purchased > at a precious price.   Also true.  After thousands of years of intellectual property theft, the Berne Convention of 1886 finally created a global framework establishing that the author of an original creative work has sole authority over its distribution.   A hundred years later the Free Software Foundation and others used the foundation established by the Berne Convention to create standardized licensing guaranteeing the freedom to read, modify, and redistribute software for any package using those licenses. These freedoms fostered such proliferation that today most of the world's software infrastructure is powered by open source.   --   Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems   From david.bovill at gmail.com Fri Sep 22 08:10:01 2023 From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2023 13:10:01 +0100 Subject: Your scripts as a flowchart In-Reply-To: <8D1EE25E-8334-44C2-B451-F17F281AFC52@gmail.com> References: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com> <18a9f0eaa08.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <023C9AEA-7B3A-455E-B6DC-18164BBF04B5@gmail.com> <8D1EE25E-8334-44C2-B451-F17F281AFC52@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Andreas, quick note - I've not read the full thread - but I have a code graph browser that I have been using for a number of years - it is a big piece of work - so not easy to distribute - and many of the parts should probably be done better / differently. I would Love to make use / integrate that work - rather than see it all stay on my laptop - but either way I'd like to get involved. This is what I have / the current approach: - Script Indexing project - libraries to recursively crawl an object or a stacks script to find handlers, and calls from each type of handler - Experimental caching and database based versions to speed up graph analysis and reporting (currently dropped) - Integration with IDE / Script Editor (using behaviors attached to "Apply" button etc - Projects arranged more or less as Levure projects - SVG graph export with interactive browsing of handlers (using graphviz) - Native graph export creating native Livecode layouts of shapes from Graphviz or Mermai d(experimental) - Filtering, and processing of graphs (experimental) What I'd like to do is: 1. Finish integration with Levure 2. Focus on Mermaid implementation 3. Test and improve the code parsing and graph creation to ensure it works properly with different coding styles Happy to demo / jump on a Zoom call and share ideas / discuss. On Mon, 18 Sept 2023 at 13:11, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Getting a full export is a tricky business, and I’m looking at various > solutions. > > The easiest workaround is to launch the flowchart in a web browser and > print to PDF from there. > On Windows/Linux the flowchart is shown that way anyway, and on Mac you > load it in a web browser by shift-clicking the Create flowchart button. The > obvious downside of printing to pdf is that you get page breaks that split > up the flowchart. > > Another workaround is to paste the Mermaid code into an online editor like > https://mermaid.live and then export to PNG from there. > > What looks more promising for actually solving it in-stack though, is > using the command-line interface (CLI) for Mermaid to generate an > svg/png/pdf file: > https://github.com/mermaid-js/mermaid-cli > > I’ll experiment with that and see what I can come up with. :) > > > As an aside, I don't know whether to be proud or horrified at the map > > Navigator produces… > > Yeah, I know the feeling… :D > > /Andreas > > > > 18 sep. 2023 kl. 03:38 skrev Geoff Canyon via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: > > > > Is there a way to export the entire flowchart, instead of just the > portion > > currently displayed? > > > > As an aside, I don't know whether to be proud or horrified at the map > > Navigator produces... > > > > On Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 8:04 PM Geoff Canyon wrote: > > > >> Ah, okay, that explains it. In Navigator, *everything* is a script-only > >> stack behavior. In a few of the substacks there are scripts for a few > >> template objects or where script-only-stack behaviors were inconvenient > (I > >> don't remember why, honestly). > >> > >> That has it working, and the resulting diagram is nice. Navigator does a > >> similar survey (without the visualization, that's a neat trick). > >> > >> Navigator reports: > >> > >> 302986 characters in > >> 8092 lines in > >> 112 scripts in > >> 885 objects. > >> > >> ScriptDependencies reports: > >> > >> 341 unique handler names - 407 commands, 124 functions, 1 setProps > >> > >> regards, > >> > >> Geoff > >> > >> On Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 6:24 PM Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode < > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> > >>> As long as you include all the script-only stacks in the analysis, they > >>> will be handled. > >>> The tool will not look for behaviors and auto-include them. Every stack > >>> that has relevant code must be included manually in the project pane. > If > >>> you have many SoSs, you can quickly add them all by adding the whole > folder > >>> they are in. > >>> > >>> How many handlers does the analysis find? > >>> > >>> /Andreas > >>> > >>> > >>>> 16 sep. 2023 kl. 22:43 skrev Geoff Canyon via use-livecode < > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: > >>>> > >>>> I didn't change anything before generating, and the flow chart is > >>> literally > >>>> blank -- unless it: > >>>> > >>>> 1. scrolls invisibly > >>>> 2. keeps returning the project name to the upper left while scrolling > >>>> 3. has *at least* 30 screens' worth of blank space at the top? > >>>> > >>>> On Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 1:35 PM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < > >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> That happened to me too with a very long script. To keep everything > in > >>>>> view > >>>>> there's a lot of white space. Keep scrolling. This happens only if > you > >>>>> have > >>>>> set it to use unlimited sizing. > >>>>> -- > >>>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > >>>>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > >>>>> On September 16, 2023 11:15:00 AM Geoff Canyon via use-livecode > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> Does it not handle script-only stack behaviors? I get a blank > display > >>> for > >>>>>> Navigator (which has no code other than SoS behaviors). > >>>>>> > >>>>>> gc > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> use-livecode mailing list > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>> subscription preferences: > >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dochawk at gmail.com Fri Sep 22 20:07:43 2023 From: dochawk at gmail.com (doc hawk) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2023 17:07:43 -0700 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: <2DC7CE02-C183-487D-8EEB-6220CB98B507@iotecdigital.com> References: <20230921205940.Horde.swKB5tu4gXLc9nlFtUFJlp8@hub.4wsys.com> <2DC7CE02-C183-487D-8EEB-6220CB98B507@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Bob blipped, Well, if I go to my bartender and ask for a free beer, I might get one, When I bought my last bicycle helmet (they’re single use, and the old one had a massive dent at the hairline. I’d never been to a trauma unit before . . .), there was a little sign on the counter that read, “ring bell for beer.” Amused, I rang the bell. And the salesman turned around, pulled a beer from a small refrigerator, and handed it to me! with that, I'll grab some popcorn and enjoy the license wars . . . From danoldboy at gmail.com Sat Sep 23 01:44:10 2023 From: danoldboy at gmail.com (Dan Brown) Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2023 06:44:10 +0100 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: <20230921223459.Horde.RRdKlo8Kin-v6rz9PGO5WV2@hub.4wsys.com> References: <20230921223459.Horde.RRdKlo8Kin-v6rz9PGO5WV2@hub.4wsys.com> Message-ID: A lot of corporations are indeed making a ton of money off the back of free labour and free software. Thanks Stallman On Thu, 21 Sept 2023, 23:36 Richard Gaskin via use-livecode, < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Bob Sneidar wrote: > > Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> > >> Bob Sneidar wrote: > >>> Erm… neither of those are free. :-) > >> > >> Please explain. > >> https://github.com/discourse/discourse/blob/main/docs/INSTALL-cloud.md > >> https://discord.com/blog/starting-your-first-discord-server > > > > > > Well, if I go to my bartender and ask for a free beer, I might get one, > > but then the bartender or the owner has to pay for it. > > True. These systems are popular enough that there's enough who choose to > pay for optional premium services so the rest remains free of cost for > everyone else. > > > As for freedom, everyone I think knows that our freedoms are purchased > > at a precious price. > > Also true. After thousands of years of intellectual property theft, the > Berne Convention of 1886 finally created a global framework establishing > that the author of an original creative work has sole authority over its > distribution. > > A hundred years later the Free Software Foundation and others used the > foundation established by the Berne Convention to create standardized > licensing guaranteeing the freedom to read, modify, and redistribute > software for any package using those licenses. These freedoms fostered such > proliferation that today most of the world's software infrastructure is > powered by open source. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org Sat Sep 23 10:30:30 2023 From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (William Prothero) Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2023 07:30:30 -0700 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Discord looks really interesting. I'm thinking of trying it out. One thing I wonder about is user privacy. I know there are private channels, but does the entity supporting discord have access to user data, emails, names, etc? That will be the first question I'm asked. Best, Bill William A. Prothero, PhD Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science University of California, Santa Barbara > On Sep 22, 2023, at 10:46 PM, Dan Brown via use-livecode wrote: > > A lot of corporations are indeed making a ton of money off the back of free > labour and free software. Thanks Stallman > >> On Thu, 21 Sept 2023, 23:36 Richard Gaskin via use-livecode, < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >> Bob Sneidar wrote: >>> Richard Gaskin wrote: >>>> >>>> Bob Sneidar wrote: >>>>> Erm… neither of those are free. :-) >>>> >>>> Please explain. >>>> https://github.com/discourse/discourse/blob/main/docs/INSTALL-cloud.md >>>> https://discord.com/blog/starting-your-first-discord-server >>> >>> >>> Well, if I go to my bartender and ask for a free beer, I might get one, >>> but then the bartender or the owner has to pay for it. >> >> True. These systems are popular enough that there's enough who choose to >> pay for optional premium services so the rest remains free of cost for >> everyone else. >> >>> As for freedom, everyone I think knows that our freedoms are purchased >>> at a precious price. >> >> Also true. After thousands of years of intellectual property theft, the >> Berne Convention of 1886 finally created a global framework establishing >> that the author of an original creative work has sole authority over its >> distribution. >> >> A hundred years later the Free Software Foundation and others used the >> foundation established by the Berne Convention to create standardized >> licensing guaranteeing the freedom to read, modify, and redistribute >> software for any package using those licenses. These freedoms fostered such >> proliferation that today most of the world's software infrastructure is >> powered by open source. >> >> -- >> Richard Gaskin >> Fourth World Systems >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From htorrado at networkdreams.net Sat Sep 23 11:00:51 2023 From: htorrado at networkdreams.net (Heriberto Torrado) Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2023 11:00:51 -0400 Subject: Livecode and ESP32 microcontroler Message-ID: <26c0c674-82ad-3c93-0e77-a9823d122add@networkdreams.net> Dear Livecode lovers, It's been a while since I've had the opportunity to contribute to our discussion group, and I'm excited to share a new project I've been working on with Livecode Server. In this project, I've been utilizing Livecode to establish communication with the serial port of a PC, leveraging Livecode Server to interface with an ESP32 microcontroller. What I've discovered is that Livecode truly shines as a scripting language in this context. It offers exceptional productivity advantages compared to languages like Python, particularly when it comes to text manipulation tasks. I wanted to take a moment to reach out and let you know that if you have any interest in microcontroller programming with Livecode or if you'd like to learn more about my project, please feel free to get in touch with me. I'd be more than happy to share insights, experiences, and collaborate on this exciting endeavor! Best, Hery Heriberto Torrado Chief Technology Officer (CTO) Director de informtica Directeur informatique *NetDreams S.C.* http://www.networkdreams.net From harrison at all-auctions.com Sat Sep 23 17:54:07 2023 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com) Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2023 17:54:07 -0400 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <26AE53FC-11F8-4089-9875-D488BC8CC706@all-auctions.com> Hi Bill, If you are running your own server on your computer, I don’t believe they would have access to that at all. They claim it’s both safe and that they are transparent on how it all works. It is open-source software so you should be able to see for yourself. Rick > On Sep 23, 2023, at 10:30 AM, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote: > > Discord looks really interesting. I'm thinking of trying it out. One thing I wonder about is > user privacy. I know there are private channels, but does the entity supporting discord have access to user data, emails, names, etc? > > That will be the first question I'm asked. > Best, > Bill > > William A. Prothero, PhD > Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science > University of California, Santa Barbara > From dougr at telus.net Sun Sep 24 11:38:03 2023 From: dougr at telus.net (Douglas A. Ruisaard) Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2023 08:38:03 -0700 Subject: Livecode and ESP32 microcontroler In-Reply-To: <26c0c674-82ad-3c93-0e77-a9823d122add@networkdreams.net> References: <26c0c674-82ad-3c93-0e77-a9823d122add@networkdreams.net> Message-ID: <03b001d9eefd$1b3190b0$5194b210$@telus.net> Hery: I am a livecode list "lurker" ... I read every posting but rarely respond. I do most of my mini project development in the ESP environment but primarily use the Arduino development platforms. I am abouit to embark on getting involved with the Raspberry Pi platform which probably means learning Python (old dog, new tricks, etc). I have developedd extensively in Livecode, though and still consider it my "go-to" environment when possible. If there were a way to integrate Livecode with the ESP platforms, I'd be ALL IN. I think others on this list will feel the same, so please share your preferences on how to exchange ideas. Doug Ruisaard Trilogy Software -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode On Behalf Of Heriberto Torrado via use-livecode Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2023 8:01 AM To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Cc: Heriberto Torrado Subject: Livecode and ESP32 microcontroler Dear Livecode lovers, It's been a while since I've had the opportunity to contribute to our discussion group, and I'm excited to share a new project I've been working on with Livecode Server. In this project, I've been utilizing Livecode to establish communication with the serial port of a PC, leveraging Livecode Server to interface with an ESP32 microcontroller. What I've discovered is that Livecode truly shines as a scripting language in this context. It offers exceptional productivity advantages compared to languages like Python, particularly when it comes to text manipulation tasks. I wanted to take a moment to reach out and let you know that if you have any interest in microcontroller programming with Livecode or if you'd like to learn more about my project, please feel free to get in touch with me. I'd be more than happy to share insights, experiences, and collaborate on this exciting endeavor! Best, Hery Heriberto Torrado ​Chief Technology Officer (CTO) ​Director de informática Directeur informatique *NetDreams S.C.* http://www.networkdreams.net _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dochawk at gmail.com Sun Sep 24 15:25:28 2023 From: dochawk at gmail.com (doc hawk) Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2023 12:25:28 -0700 Subject: Livecode and ESP32 microcontroler In-Reply-To: <03b001d9eefd$1b3190b0$5194b210$@telus.net> References: <26c0c674-82ad-3c93-0e77-a9823d122add@networkdreams.net> <03b001d9eefd$1b3190b0$5194b210$@telus.net> Message-ID: Forty years ago, HyperCard and Supercars ran on 8 MHz, 16 bit, 68000s. (OK, it was a 16/32 design, but still). However, it was *not* snappy by any means. I suspect that you’d need a rather stripped down version of LiveCode on a microcontroller, both to get adequate performance and to cut power. But I’d definitely be interested. My next round of tinkering will probably be with a device like that, as the wifi or ble controller I attach to arduinos seem to have more than an arduino’s worth of processing power left. From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Sun Sep 24 18:10:59 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2023 22:10:59 +0000 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: References: <20230921205940.Horde.swKB5tu4gXLc9nlFtUFJlp8@hub.4wsys.com> <2DC7CE02-C183-487D-8EEB-6220CB98B507@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: The Russians had a great saying: There’s no such thing as a free lunch. Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 22, 2023, at 17:09, doc hawk via use-livecode wrote: > > Bob blipped, > > Well, if I go to my bartender and ask for a free beer, I might get one, > > > When I bought my last bicycle helmet (they’re single use, and the old one > had a massive dent at the hairline. I’d never been to a trauma unit before > . . .), there was a little sign on the counter that read, “ring bell for > beer.” Amused, I rang the bell. > > And the salesman turned around, pulled a beer from a small refrigerator, > and handed it to me! > > with that, I'll grab some popcorn and enjoy the license wars . . . > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun Sep 24 19:03:26 2023 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2023 18:03:26 -0500 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: References: <20230921205940.Horde.swKB5tu4gXLc9nlFtUFJlp8@hub.4wsys.com> <2DC7CE02-C183-487D-8EEB-6220CB98B507@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <18ac96ef230.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> The Russians also have another: Q: What is the difference between capitalism and communism? A: Capitalism is one man exploiting another. Communism is exactly the opposite. :) -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On September 24, 2023 5:13:10 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > The Russians had a great saying: Theres no such thing as a free lunch. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Sep 22, 2023, at 17:09, doc hawk via use-livecode >> wrote: >> >> Bob blipped, >> >> Well, if I go to my bartender and ask for a free beer, I might get one, >> >> >> When I bought my last bicycle helmet (theyre single use, and the old one >> had a massive dent at the hairline. Id never been to a trauma unit before >> . . .), there was a little sign on the counter that read, ring bell for >> beer. Amused, I rang the bell. >> >> And the salesman turned around, pulled a beer from a small refrigerator, >> and handed it to me! >> >> with that, I'll grab some popcorn and enjoy the license wars . . . >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon Sep 25 11:13:35 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 15:13:35 +0000 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: <18ac96ef230.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <20230921205940.Horde.swKB5tu4gXLc9nlFtUFJlp8@hub.4wsys.com> <2DC7CE02-C183-487D-8EEB-6220CB98B507@iotecdigital.com> <18ac96ef230.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Hah hah. Yes, but with Capitalism, we get to vote for our exploiters. :-) Bob S > On Sep 24, 2023, at 4:03 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > > The Russians also have another: > > Q: What is the difference between capitalism and communism? > A: Capitalism is one man exploiting another. Communism is exactly the opposite. > > :) > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon Sep 25 12:14:04 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 16:14:04 +0000 Subject: Go forward is not working Message-ID: Hi all. Can anyone else verify that Go Forward in widget is working? Somewhere along the way it stopped for me. I even enter it in the message box and nothing happens. hiliteChanged is not triggered, and neither is tabChanged. Bob S From dougr at telus.net Mon Sep 25 13:29:18 2023 From: dougr at telus.net (Douglas A. Ruisaard) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 10:29:18 -0700 Subject: Livecode and ESP32 microcontroler In-Reply-To: References: <26c0c674-82ad-3c93-0e77-a9823d122add@networkdreams.net> <03b001d9eefd$1b3190b0$5194b210$@telus.net> Message-ID: <1d5a01d9efd5$d07a0370$716e0a50$@telus.net> I was thinking more along the lines of a LiveCode to Arduino / Python compiler. To be able to write in LiveCode and then upload it to an ESP would be a tream comne true! Doug -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode On Behalf Of doc hawk via use-livecode Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2023 12:25 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: doc hawk Subject: Re: Livecode and ESP32 microcontroler Forty years ago, HyperCard and Supercars ran on 8 MHz, 16 bit, 68000s. (OK, it was a 16/32 design, but still). However, it was *not* snappy by any means. I suspect that you’d need a rather stripped down version of LiveCode on a microcontroller, both to get adequate performance and to cut power. But I’d definitely be interested. My next round of tinkering will probably be with a device like that, as the wifi or ble controller I attach to arduinos seem to have more than an arduino’s worth of processing power left. _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Mon Sep 25 15:48:51 2023 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 15:48:51 -0400 Subject: Livecode and ESP32 microcontroler In-Reply-To: <03b001d9eefd$1b3190b0$5194b210$@telus.net> References: <26c0c674-82ad-3c93-0e77-a9823d122add@networkdreams.net> <03b001d9eefd$1b3190b0$5194b210$@telus.net> Message-ID: <005b01d9efe9$51fcf110$f5f6d330$@net> I'm working on an Arduino/esp32/rtc/lcd display project to control my pool solar heating array to open/close valves, turn the solar array or pool filter pump off/on based on solar availability and min filter hours needed using electric actuated valves, pump relays and temperature sensors. I connected an esp32 com port to the Arduino com port. The esp32 is a socket server and talk to the remote pumps/sensors... having their own Arduino and esp32s to be told when to turn on/off, open/close valves and get senor info. I have used AT commands(it's funny that AT the command format still exists) to test the esp32 and have the whole Arduino thing under control(never thought I'd have to learn C). It's time to connect them together. I know I could do a lot of this on the esp32 itself but all the sensors, relays, display, RTC, SD Card and large program might be too much to the esp32. I want to be able to see the status and set parameters in the Arduino via the esp32 using a LiveCode desktop/mobile gui app talking to the socket server. The Arduino on boot inits the esp32, put it into socket server mode. Waits for all clients(2-4 below) to connect then the Arduino fields/responds to all the clients. Starts events in progress. Clients are: 1) LC socket client app to see status/set params/ turn things on/off outside of scheduled events 2) Main Pool filter pump. 3) Solar array pump. 4) Water valves. The last 3 are in different locations using Arduinos and esp32 socket clients via wifi. The display on the master socket server shows temperatures(in/out solar and pool) I will forward a port on my router to access the socket server when not on the local LAN. Encrypted of course. I'm, trying to get the most solar heat to the pool with sufficient water filtering with minimum electric usage. I'm tired of doing all of this manually and also my electric cost has doubled in the last 2+ years and I'm trying to claw some of it back with this project. I guessing that the handling of network interruption events will be a challenge. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Douglas A. Ruisaard via use-livecode Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2023 11:38 AM To: 'How to use LiveCode' Cc: Douglas A. Ruisaard Subject: RE: Livecode and ESP32 microcontroler Hery: I am a livecode list "lurker" ... I read every posting but rarely respond. I do most of my mini project development in the ESP environment but primarily use the Arduino development platforms. I am abouit to embark on getting involved with the Raspberry Pi platform which probably means learning Python (old dog, new tricks, etc). I have developedd extensively in Livecode, though and still consider it my "go-to" environment when possible. If there were a way to integrate Livecode with the ESP platforms, I'd be ALL IN. I think others on this list will feel the same, so please share your preferences on how to exchange ideas. Doug Ruisaard Trilogy Software -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode On Behalf Of Heriberto Torrado via use-livecode Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2023 8:01 AM To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Cc: Heriberto Torrado Subject: Livecode and ESP32 microcontroler Dear Livecode lovers, It's been a while since I've had the opportunity to contribute to our discussion group, and I'm excited to share a new project I've been working on with Livecode Server. In this project, I've been utilizing Livecode to establish communication with the serial port of a PC, leveraging Livecode Server to interface with an ESP32 microcontroller. What I've discovered is that Livecode truly shines as a scripting language in this context. It offers exceptional productivity advantages compared to languages like Python, particularly when it comes to text manipulation tasks. I wanted to take a moment to reach out and let you know that if you have any interest in microcontroller programming with Livecode or if you'd like to learn more about my project, please feel free to get in touch with me. I'd be more than happy to share insights, experiences, and collaborate on this exciting endeavor! Best, Hery Heriberto Torrado ​Chief Technology Officer (CTO) ​Director de informática Directeur informatique *NetDreams S.C.* http://www.networkdreams.net _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dochawk at gmail.com Mon Sep 25 19:26:16 2023 From: dochawk at gmail.com (doc hawk) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 16:26:16 -0700 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: References: <20230921205940.Horde.swKB5tu4gXLc9nlFtUFJlp8@hub.4wsys.com> <2DC7CE02-C183-487D-8EEB-6220CB98B507@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: bob belabored, The Russians had a great saying: There’s no such thing as a free lunch. True. But there *is* a lunch that someone else pays for . . . From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Sep 26 11:03:47 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2023 15:03:47 +0000 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: References: <20230921205940.Horde.swKB5tu4gXLc9nlFtUFJlp8@hub.4wsys.com> <2DC7CE02-C183-487D-8EEB-6220CB98B507@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: No “but” there. That was precisely my point. :-) Bob S On Sep 25, 2023, at 4:26 PM, doc hawk via use-livecode wrote: bob belabored, The Russians had a great saying: There’s no such thing as a free lunch. True. But there *is* a lunch that someone else pays for . . . From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue Sep 26 13:43:48 2023 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2023 12:43:48 -0500 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: References: <20230921205940.Horde.swKB5tu4gXLc9nlFtUFJlp8@hub.4wsys.com> <2DC7CE02-C183-487D-8EEB-6220CB98B507@iotecdigital.com> <18ac96ef230.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <18ad2970820.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> One more and then I will stop hijacking this thread. BTW these are jokes told in Russia by Russians. "In Russia we have freedom of speech. In America they have freedom *after* speech." -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On September 25, 2023 10:15:50 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > Hah hah. Yes, but with Capitalism, we get to vote for our exploiters. :-) > > Bob S > > >> On Sep 24, 2023, at 4:03 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode >> wrote: >> >> The Russians also have another: >> >> Q: What is the difference between capitalism and communism? >> A: Capitalism is one man exploiting another. Communism is exactly the opposite. >> >> :) >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Wed Sep 27 10:49:25 2023 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2023 10:49:25 -0400 Subject: Livecode 10dp6 and web fonts Message-ID: <31e0834e-343a-5294-7edf-2db21a993001@researchware.com> I get the value of web font support in LC10dp6 for WEB based applications. However, if you making a multi-platform application, you still have the issue of UI consistency across platforms as web fonts can't be used in desktop standalones (or, I assume, phone standalones) So this is sort of an informal poll among Livecoders who MAKE multi-platform apps (defined as 2 or more platforms of (macOS, Windows, Linux, iOS, Android, Web) (A) Do you try to make your interfaces across platforms the SAME (as much as possible)? OR (B) Do you TAILOR each interface for the specific platform (as much as possible)? And optionally, an opened ended question: Does your answer depend of what platforms you are deploying for? From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Sep 27 11:12:18 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2023 15:12:18 +0000 Subject: Livecode 10dp6 and web fonts In-Reply-To: <31e0834e-343a-5294-7edf-2db21a993001@researchware.com> References: <31e0834e-343a-5294-7edf-2db21a993001@researchware.com> Message-ID: A. I develop an app for WIN and MAC. I do want them to look the same on both, so much so that I created my own tab object which uses the tab widget but also transparent buttons in front of each tab because I want drag drop functionality in the tabs, and widgets do not listen for those messages. I also have a set of fonts I use so that I can maintain some kind of consistency between platforms, although in the process I discovered like many others that the same font renders differently across platforms. That sucks royally, but I understand it’s not something Livecode can do anything about without kludging. Bob S > On Sep 27, 2023, at 7:49 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > > I get the value of web font support in LC10dp6 for WEB based applications. > > However, if you making a multi-platform application, you still have the issue of UI consistency across platforms as web fonts can't be used in desktop standalones (or, I assume, phone standalones) > > So this is sort of an informal poll among Livecoders who MAKE multi-platform apps (defined as 2 or more platforms of (macOS, Windows, Linux, iOS, Android, Web) > > (A) Do you try to make your interfaces across platforms the SAME (as much as possible)? > > OR > > (B) Do you TAILOR each interface for the specific platform (as much as possible)? > > And optionally, an opened ended question: Does your answer depend of what platforms you are deploying for? > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Sep 27 11:27:02 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2023 15:27:02 +0000 Subject: PDF Widget No Filled Forms Message-ID: <188A03AF-B0F5-4E69-91D8-B3426AFB5615@iotecdigital.com> Hi all. I have filled forms, and I am just now wanting to display those FILLED forms in a PDF widget. Only problem is, the form data is not being displayed. Is that the current state of affairs? If so, then boo! Bob S From derek-lc-list at speedbump.io Wed Sep 27 12:28:19 2023 From: derek-lc-list at speedbump.io (Derek Bump) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2023 11:28:19 -0500 Subject: Livecode 10dp6 and web fonts In-Reply-To: <31e0834e-343a-5294-7edf-2db21a993001@researchware.com> References: <31e0834e-343a-5294-7edf-2db21a993001@researchware.com> Message-ID: Hi Paul, In the past, I aimed to align my application UI closely with the host OS, believing that a consistent UI ensures broad accessibility. However, over time, I've come to see that while UI continuity is beneficial, it isn't the ultimate solution. This realization hit home when I managed a team for a large enterprise client. We had programs that mimicked the host OS UI while others sported a completely unique UI. To my surprise, the consistency of the UI mattered little to my teammost only used technology to fulfill their core tasks. The outdated screen snapshots and hand-annotations in the department's process documentation underscored this point. The design nuances, like font choices, weren't as problematic as a complete UI overhaul. An entire UI revamp meant new documentation and snapshots, consuming a significant chunk of my time and increasing my managerial stress. While one could argue these issues stem from a lack of training or poor work environment, the reality is such teams exist, and they will be your users and sources of feedback. Now, my focus is on ensuring the UI fits the program's purpose rather than matching the host OS. Continuity matters, but it isn't paramount. I tread cautiously with UI changes, avoiding unnecessary complexity. Gathering feedback early and consistently is key. If considering major UI shifts, I seek feedback upfront. Considering the topic, I highly recommend Bret Victor's "Inventing on Principle" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUv66718DII) I believe LiveCode resonates with Bret's ideas, and I've been integrating his concepts into my work. Well worth the engaging 54 minute presentation. Hope this provides some insight, Derek Bump On 9/27/23 09:49, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > (A) Do you try to make your interfaces across platforms the SAME (as > much as possible)? > > OR > > (B) Do you TAILOR each interface for the specific platform (as much as > possible)? > > And optionally, an opened ended question: Does your answer depend of > what platforms you are deploying for? From monte.goulding at livecode.com Wed Sep 27 19:51:08 2023 From: monte.goulding at livecode.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 09:51:08 +1000 Subject: PDF Widget No Filled Forms In-Reply-To: <188A03AF-B0F5-4E69-91D8-B3426AFB5615@iotecdigital.com> References: <188A03AF-B0F5-4E69-91D8-B3426AFB5615@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Hi Bob Try setting the `drawAnnotations` to true and see if the form data renders Cheers Monte > On 28 Sep 2023, at 1:27 am, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi all. > > I have filled forms, and I am just now wanting to display those FILLED forms in a PDF widget. Only problem is, the form data is not being displayed. Is that the current state of affairs? If so, then boo! > > Bob S > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Sep 27 19:58:12 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2023 23:58:12 +0000 Subject: PDF Widget No Filled Forms In-Reply-To: References: <188A03AF-B0F5-4E69-91D8-B3426AFB5615@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <09B2CF2D-38D7-4FEE-93FC-288B7D9846D1@iotecdigital.com> Nope. Not only that, but the autoHilite (Select Text) is not working either. Bob S > On Sep 27, 2023, at 4:51 PM, Monte Goulding via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Bob > > Try setting the `drawAnnotations` to true and see if the form data renders > > Cheers > > Monte > >> On 28 Sep 2023, at 1:27 am, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Hi all. >> >> I have filled forms, and I am just now wanting to display those FILLED forms in a PDF widget. Only problem is, the form data is not being displayed. Is that the current state of affairs? If so, then boo! >> >> Bob S >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From monte.goulding at livecode.com Wed Sep 27 21:35:56 2023 From: monte.goulding at livecode.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 11:35:56 +1000 Subject: PDF Widget No Filled Forms In-Reply-To: <09B2CF2D-38D7-4FEE-93FC-288B7D9846D1@iotecdigital.com> References: <188A03AF-B0F5-4E69-91D8-B3426AFB5615@iotecdigital.com> <09B2CF2D-38D7-4FEE-93FC-288B7D9846D1@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Hi Bob Hmm… OK, it could be a bit of a project to get your forms rendering then. If it’s something you need soon and you have a budget then contact support at livecode.com . Otherwise you can create a bug report and attach the PDF. FYI there is no support for form interactivity at the moment so the select text is on the PDF text rather than the form fields. Cheers Monte > On 28 Sep 2023, at 9:58 am, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > Nope. Not only that, but the autoHilite (Select Text) is not working either. From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Thu Sep 28 07:09:52 2023 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 13:09:52 +0200 Subject: PDF Widget No Filled Forms In-Reply-To: <188A03AF-B0F5-4E69-91D8-B3426AFB5615@iotecdigital.com> References: <188A03AF-B0F5-4E69-91D8-B3426AFB5615@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Bob, as a workaround you could create a temporary pdf file that is then displayed in the pdf widget. You'll need the free tool PDFTK server with its fill-form option for this. PDFTK server runs on macOS, Windows and some Linux versions. PDFTK server is free https://www.pdflabs.com If you need it for iOS or Android you could use a web server to which you post the .fdf or xfdf data and the web server then runs pdftk server, creates the pdf and returns it back to the device. Not as easy then just opening the .(x)fdf file, but at least a solution. ;) Regards, Matthias > Am 27.09.2023 um 17:27 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode : > > Hi all. > > I have filled forms, and I am just now wanting to display those FILLED forms in a PDF widget. Only problem is, the form data is not being displayed. Is that the current state of affairs? If so, then boo! > > Bob S > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Thu Sep 28 09:38:17 2023 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 15:38:17 +0200 Subject: PDF Widget No Filled Forms In-Reply-To: References: <188A03AF-B0F5-4E69-91D8-B3426AFB5615@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <8C0CC5ED-9DD5-49D1-A615-6F25DE4E24B3@m-r-d.de> What i forgot to mention. For macOS 10.11 and above please use the following link https://www.pdflabs.com/tools/pdftk-the-pdf-toolkit/pdftk_server-2.02-mac_osx-10.11-setup.pkg > Am 28.09.2023 um 13:09 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode : > > Bob, > > as a workaround you could create a temporary pdf file that is then displayed in the pdf widget. > You'll need the free tool PDFTK server with its fill-form option for this. PDFTK server runs on macOS, Windows and some Linux versions. > PDFTK server is free https://www.pdflabs.com > > If you need it for iOS or Android you could use a web server to which you post the .fdf or xfdf data and the web server then runs pdftk server, creates the pdf and returns it back to the device. > > Not as easy then just opening the .(x)fdf file, but at least a solution. ;) > > Regards, > Matthias > > > > >> Am 27.09.2023 um 17:27 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode : >> >> Hi all. >> >> I have filled forms, and I am just now wanting to display those FILLED forms in a PDF widget. Only problem is, the form data is not being displayed. Is that the current state of affairs? If so, then boo! >> >> Bob S >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Sep 28 11:14:54 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 15:14:54 +0000 Subject: PDF Widget No Filled Forms In-Reply-To: References: <188A03AF-B0F5-4E69-91D8-B3426AFB5615@iotecdigital.com> <09B2CF2D-38D7-4FEE-93FC-288B7D9846D1@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: No big rush. I can open the form in a web browser if necessary. My idea was to have a Native Document Viewer like the document management app we currently use, but I am not using my app for that yet. I just generate filled forms for service at the moment. I will create a bug report with a sample stack and form. I should note that this form is the kind where it can be filled using Adobe Reader. For some reason, Adobe has 2 kinds of forms. Bob S > On Sep 27, 2023, at 6:35 PM, Monte Goulding via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Bob > > Hmm… OK, it could be a bit of a project to get your forms rendering then. If it’s something you need soon and you have a budget then contact support at livecode.com . Otherwise you can create a bug report and attach the PDF. > > FYI there is no support for form interactivity at the moment so the select text is on the PDF text rather than the form fields. > > Cheers > > Monte > >> On 28 Sep 2023, at 9:58 am, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Nope. Not only that, but the autoHilite (Select Text) is not working either. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Sep 28 11:16:09 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 15:16:09 +0000 Subject: PDF Widget No Filled Forms In-Reply-To: <8C0CC5ED-9DD5-49D1-A615-6F25DE4E24B3@m-r-d.de> References: <188A03AF-B0F5-4E69-91D8-B3426AFB5615@iotecdigital.com> <8C0CC5ED-9DD5-49D1-A615-6F25DE4E24B3@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: Thanks Matthias I’ll look at that. Bob S > On Sep 28, 2023, at 6:38 AM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > > What i forgot to mention. For macOS 10.11 and above please use the following link > https://www.pdflabs.com/tools/pdftk-the-pdf-toolkit/pdftk_server-2.02-mac_osx-10.11-setup.pkg > > > >> Am 28.09.2023 um 13:09 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode : >> >> Bob, >> >> as a workaround you could create a temporary pdf file that is then displayed in the pdf widget. >> You'll need the free tool PDFTK server with its fill-form option for this. PDFTK server runs on macOS, Windows and some Linux versions. >> PDFTK server is free https://www.pdflabs.com >> >> If you need it for iOS or Android you could use a web server to which you post the .fdf or xfdf data and the web server then runs pdftk server, creates the pdf and returns it back to the device. >> >> Not as easy then just opening the .(x)fdf file, but at least a solution. ;) >> >> Regards, >> Matthias >> >> >> >> >>> Am 27.09.2023 um 17:27 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode : >>> >>> Hi all. >>> >>> I have filled forms, and I am just now wanting to display those FILLED forms in a PDF widget. Only problem is, the form data is not being displayed. Is that the current state of affairs? If so, then boo! >>> >>> Bob S >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From klaus at major-k.de Thu Sep 28 11:34:45 2023 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 17:34:45 +0200 Subject: Android Standalone buiulding error Message-ID: Hi friends, I created an Android runtime from this stack in April without any problem. Now I changes some minor cosmetic issues and got this error when "Save as standalone..." Only thing I can remember is that I added API 33 in Android Studio. macOS 12.7, LC 9.6.10. Android Studio 2021.3 ------------------------------------------------------------ There was an error while saving the standalone application Could not encode class bundle - error: Methods with invalid locals information void androidx.orint.Printre persprintUriAdapters I.onrosttxecutelandroid.araonics.Bitman) Information in locals-table is invalid with respect to the stack map table. Local refers to non-present stack map type for register: 2 with constraint OBJECT Info in /private/var/tolders/8v/k8b7ir8503db3h60tdt9pbw0000a/T/Temporarvltems/tmp.6277.nK1natOk/22/classes.iar:androidx/viewoaaer/widaet/PagerTitleStrip.class Methods with invalld locals intormation voidandroidx.viewpager.widget.PagerTitleStrip.updateTextPositions(int.float,boolean" Intormation in locals-table is invalid with respect to the stack map table. Local refers to non-present stack map type for register: 37 with constraint INT -------------------------------------------------------------- Any idea what is going wrong here? Thank you! Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From merakosp at gmail.com Thu Sep 28 13:40:49 2023 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 20:40:49 +0300 Subject: Android Standalone buiulding error In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Klaus, I am afk now, but there is a bug report about it. The workaround is to make sure you have installed only v31.0.0 of the android *build tools*. Anything above v31 will cause this error. Cheers, Panos On Thu, 28 Sept 2023, 18:35 Klaus major-k via use-livecode, < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi friends, > > I created an Android runtime from this stack in April without any problem. > Now I changes some minor cosmetic issues and got this error when "Save as > standalone..." > > Only thing I can remember is that I added API 33 in Android Studio. > > macOS 12.7, LC 9.6.10. Android Studio 2021.3 > ------------------------------------------------------------ > There was an error while saving the standalone application > Could not encode class bundle - error: > Methods with invalid locals information > void androidx.orint.Printre persprintUriAdapters > I.onrosttxecutelandroid.araonics.Bitman) > Information in locals-table is invalid with respect to the stack map > table. Local refers to non-present stack map type for register: 2 with > constraint OBJECT > Info in > > /private/var/tolders/8v/k8b7ir8503db3h60tdt9pbw0000a/T/Temporarvltems/tmp.6277.nK1natOk/22/classes.iar:androidx/viewoaaer/widaet/PagerTitleStrip.class > Methods with invalld locals intormation > > voidandroidx.viewpager.widget.PagerTitleStrip.updateTextPositions(int.float,boolean" > Intormation in locals-table is invalid with respect to the stack map > table. Local refers to non-present stack map type for register: 37 with > constraint INT > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Any idea what is going wrong here? > Thank you! > > > Best > > Klaus > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > https://www.major-k.de/bass > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From klaus at major-k.de Thu Sep 28 13:51:31 2023 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 19:51:31 +0200 Subject: Android Standalone buiulding error In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <04D3923B-1EFF-431A-B096-BBD9FD3225C7@major-k.de> Hi Panos, > Am 28.09.2023 um 19:40 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode : > > Hello Klaus, > > I am afk what does that stand for? 8-) > now, but there is a bug report about it. The workaround is to make > sure you have installed only v31.0.0 of the android *build tools*. Anything > above v31 will cause this error. But LC claimed this for version 9.6.10 (from the LC blog): ---------------------------------------------- LiveCode 9.6.10 Stable Released ... FEATURES ADDED: Android API 33 update The Android engine is now built using version 33 of the Android API, a requirement for new apps submitted to the Google Play Store. Note you’ll have to install “Android API 33” using the SDK Manager in Android Studio. --------------------------------------------- And I am using LC 9.6.10! I installed API 33 for this reason. What gives? :-( And we MUST use API 33 for new apps or updates of older app. Or did I misunderstand this Google requirement? > Cheers, > Panos > > On Thu, 28 Sept 2023, 18:35 Klaus major-k via use-livecode, < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Hi friends, >> >> I created an Android runtime from this stack in April without any problem. >> Now I changes some minor cosmetic issues and got this error when "Save as >> standalone..." >> >> Only thing I can remember is that I added API 33 in Android Studio. >> >> macOS 12.7, LC 9.6.10. Android Studio 2021.3 >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> There was an error while saving the standalone application >> Could not encode class bundle - error: >> Methods with invalid locals information >> void androidx.orint.Printre persprintUriAdapters >> I.onrosttxecutelandroid.araonics.Bitman) >> Information in locals-table is invalid with respect to the stack map >> table. Local refers to non-present stack map type for register: 2 with >> constraint OBJECT >> Info in >> >> /private/var/tolders/8v/k8b7ir8503db3h60tdt9pbw0000a/T/Temporarvltems/tmp.6277.nK1natOk/22/classes.iar:androidx/viewoaaer/widaet/PagerTitleStrip.class >> Methods with invalld locals intormation >> >> voidandroidx.viewpager.widget.PagerTitleStrip.updateTextPositions(int.float,boolean" >> Intormation in locals-table is invalid with respect to the stack map >> table. Local refers to non-present stack map type for register: 37 with >> constraint INT >> -------------------------------------------------------------- Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From merakosp at gmail.com Thu Sep 28 13:57:14 2023 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 20:57:14 +0300 Subject: Android Standalone buiulding error In-Reply-To: <04D3923B-1EFF-431A-B096-BBD9FD3225C7@major-k.de> References: <04D3923B-1EFF-431A-B096-BBD9FD3225C7@major-k.de> Message-ID: Hello Klaus, Yes you do need android API 33, but keep the version of the android build tools to 31.0.0. These are different things. You can install/uninstall various versions of the build tools if you open the second tab of the sdk manager in android studio. Cheers, Panos Ps: afk = away from keyboard :) On Thu, 28 Sept 2023, 20:51 Klaus major-k via use-livecode, < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi Panos, > > > Am 28.09.2023 um 19:40 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: > > > > Hello Klaus, > > > > I am afk > > what does that stand for? 8-) > > > now, but there is a bug report about it. The workaround is to make > > sure you have installed only v31.0.0 of the android *build tools*. > Anything > > above v31 will cause this error. > > But LC claimed this for version 9.6.10 (from the LC blog): > ---------------------------------------------- > LiveCode 9.6.10 Stable Released > ... > FEATURES ADDED: > Android API 33 update > The Android engine is now built using version 33 of the Android API, a > requirement for new apps submitted to the Google Play Store. Note you’ll > have to install “Android API 33” using the SDK Manager in Android Studio. > --------------------------------------------- > And I am using LC 9.6.10! > I installed API 33 for this reason. What gives? :-( > > And we MUST use API 33 for new apps or updates of older app. > Or did I misunderstand this Google requirement? > > > Cheers, > > Panos > > > > On Thu, 28 Sept 2023, 18:35 Klaus major-k via use-livecode, < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > >> Hi friends, > >> > >> I created an Android runtime from this stack in April without any > problem. > >> Now I changes some minor cosmetic issues and got this error when "Save > as > >> standalone..." > >> > >> Only thing I can remember is that I added API 33 in Android Studio. > >> > >> macOS 12.7, LC 9.6.10. Android Studio 2021.3 > >> ------------------------------------------------------------ > >> There was an error while saving the standalone application > >> Could not encode class bundle - error: > >> Methods with invalid locals information > >> void androidx.orint.Printre persprintUriAdapters > >> I.onrosttxecutelandroid.araonics.Bitman) > >> Information in locals-table is invalid with respect to the stack map > >> table. Local refers to non-present stack map type for register: 2 with > >> constraint OBJECT > >> Info in > >> > >> > /private/var/tolders/8v/k8b7ir8503db3h60tdt9pbw0000a/T/Temporarvltems/tmp.6277.nK1natOk/22/classes.iar:androidx/viewoaaer/widaet/PagerTitleStrip.class > >> Methods with invalld locals intormation > >> > >> > voidandroidx.viewpager.widget.PagerTitleStrip.updateTextPositions(int.float,boolean" > >> Intormation in locals-table is invalid with respect to the stack map > >> table. Local refers to non-present stack map type for register: 37 with > >> constraint INT > >> -------------------------------------------------------------- > > Best > > Klaus > > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > https://www.major-k.de/bass > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From klaus at major-k.de Thu Sep 28 14:06:50 2023 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 20:06:50 +0200 Subject: Android Standalone buiulding error In-Reply-To: References: <04D3923B-1EFF-431A-B096-BBD9FD3225C7@major-k.de> Message-ID: <917EB892-2DCD-456C-A8E7-E6650A08F7FA@major-k.de> Hi Panos, > Am 28.09.2023 um 19:57 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode : > > Hello Klaus, > > Yes you do need android API 33, but keep the version of the android build > tools to 31.0.0. These are different things. ah, sorry, my fault, I had no idea! 8-) > You can install/uninstall > various versions of the build tools if you open the second tab of the sdk > manager in android studio. Thank you, will do. > Cheers, > Panos > > Ps: afk = away from keyboard :) AHA, efcharistó! > On Thu, 28 Sept 2023, 20:51 Klaus major-k via use-livecode, < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Hi Panos, >> >>> Am 28.09.2023 um 19:40 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: >>> >>> Hello Klaus, >>> >>> I am afk >> >> what does that stand for? 8-) >> >>> now, but there is a bug report about it. The workaround is to make >>> sure you have installed only v31.0.0 of the android *build tools*. >> Anything >>> above v31 will cause this error. >> >> But LC claimed this for version 9.6.10 (from the LC blog): >> ---------------------------------------------- >> LiveCode 9.6.10 Stable Released >> ... >> FEATURES ADDED: >> Android API 33 update >> The Android engine is now built using version 33 of the Android API, a >> requirement for new apps submitted to the Google Play Store. Note you’ll >> have to install “Android API 33” using the SDK Manager in Android Studio. >> --------------------------------------------- >> And I am using LC 9.6.10! >> I installed API 33 for this reason. What gives? :-( >> >> And we MUST use API 33 for new apps or updates of older app. >> Or did I misunderstand this Google requirement? Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Sep 28 15:07:42 2023 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 12:07:42 -0700 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47f0517d-2a9a-7364-a0b3-1b26ca7ee8fd@fourthworld.com> William Prothero wrote: > Discord looks really interesting. I'm thinking of trying it out. > One thing I wonder about is user privacy. I know there are private > channels, but does the entity supporting discord have access to > user data, emails, names, etc? > > That will be the first question I'm asked. It's a good question. With almost every public service today, the answer will be negative. Discord is free of charge but is not open source, so while you can set up a server there easily, someone else is hosting it, and like nearly every public service the TOS fine print allows data mining. Same with Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, and pretty much every SaaS you use. For the purposes Discord used for, this is usually fine. Game publishers use it for support and tips, and a great many other orgs besides, and for that sort of discussion privacy needs are minimal. For example, there's a growing HyperCard group hosted on Discord: https://discord.gg/RZZv3wk4 But with VERY few exceptions, any service you're not hosting yourself will be subject to data mining in one form or another.* Only self-hosted systems provide you with complete assurance about how user data is handled. Discourse is free and open source, but for some the system requirements for self-hosting may be daunting. No worries: there are many dozens of good packages for threaded discussion forums, and most are FOSS and can be self-hosted. And if you use any shared hosting you can try out many of them easily enough in Softaculous or whatever one-click install system is provided by your host. And Bill, it's been a couple years since we talked. If you want to kick around a few ideas for what your group needs, give me a call. Always good to talk with you. ---- * Privacy rant: I'm rebuilding all of my web tooling, and with that my content, and with that I just started the rewrite for my Privacy Policy. When I wrote this more than 15 years ago, the biggest concern at the time was spam. We hadn't yet seen comprehensive cross-indexed user behavior tracking used to build psychographic models capable of destabilizing entire regions, as we've seen with more modern information warfare (the US Senate Intel Committee reports on disinformation campaigns include a good methodology overview: https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/publications/report-select-committee-intelligence-united-states-senate-russian-active-measures ). So while I'll be extending some of the wording scope when my new site is published, I was frankly surprised at how well the rest of a 15-year-old policy has held up - here's the meat of it: To be perfectly frank, we find it disappointing that so many companies who sell products and services online also act as mass-marketing companies, selling your email address and other personal information to anyone who's willing to pony up the cash. We offer our Privacy Policy as a challenge for all other online companies: Stick to what you do, do it well, and stop the practice of selling customer information to strangers. If you can't be profitable sticking with your core business and need to also sell your customers' personal information to remain viable, maybe it's time to rethink your business plan. The sale of customer information to other companies is a significant contributing factor to the ever-growing volume of unsolicited commercial email (commonly called "spam"). Last year alone spam cost ISPs more than US$7 billion, and the aggregate cost to global industries is many times that. We know there are many more legitimate ways to spread the word about good products and services, and hope that by working together we may one day see an end to spam. If digital surveillance is of interest, I've found the work of author and EFF consultant Cory Doctorow particularly enlightening. This article provides a good intro to what he's been up to lately: https://www.pasadenastarnews.com/2023/09/14/cory-doctorow-takes-on-big-techs-worst-impulses-in-the-internet-con/ -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems From thatkeith at mac.com Thu Sep 28 15:13:33 2023 From: thatkeith at mac.com (Keith Martin) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 20:13:33 +0100 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3B953044-4712-41A1-AA5A-A86641A3D2F4@mac.com> > On 23 Sep 2023, at 15:32, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote: > > Discord looks really interesting. To me, Discord looks like a refugee from a moderately poorly designed BBS from 30 years ago. I use it (it's the student comms platform of choice for a course I teach on) and it does work well in the sense of being very functional, but it offends me on multiple levels. k From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Sep 28 15:46:07 2023 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 12:46:07 -0700 Subject: Livecode 10dp6 and web fonts In-Reply-To: <31e0834e-343a-5294-7edf-2db21a993001@researchware.com> References: <31e0834e-343a-5294-7edf-2db21a993001@researchware.com> Message-ID: Paul Dupuis wrote: > So this is sort of an informal poll among Livecoders who MAKE > multi-platform apps (defined as 2 or more platforms of (macOS, > Windows, Linux, iOS, Android, Web) > > (A) Do you try to make your interfaces across platforms the > SAME (as much as possible)? > > OR > > (B) Do you TAILOR each interface for the specific platform (as > much as possible)? The universe of software vast, and with games and other entertainment software, and educational other edge cases, there are solid arguments for a wide range of design priorities. But when it comes to software for enhancing organizational productivity, it may be useful to step back from our app and look at the context of use. An app is one part of a multi-step workflow. The user brings things into our app space, does stuff with it there, and takes things produced there for use elsewhere. Word processors take in ideas and notes, and output print and web documents. Illustration tools take in visions and sketches and output diagrams and pictures. QDA software takes in interviews and other source materials and outputs reports and analysis summaries. With this in mind, a more user-centric question could be: Which number is larger: (A) Number of hours a given user will use one app across multiple operating systems. (B) Number of hours a given user will use multiple apps on a single operating system. OS vendors have expended significant resources documenting the products of their research into user interface guidelines. And the LiveCode team has undertaken significant effort in the v9 series to make delivery of OS-HIG-savvy apps easier than using just about anything else. I don't believe all of those resources were a waste of time. Beyond the simple comparative exercise above, I arrived at my appreciation for LC's xplat savvy following an email exchange I had a few years ago with Bruce Tognazzini on one corner of this subject: dialog button placement. As you know, Mac dialogs put the default button at bottom-right, and Win puts the default at bottom-left. I asked him whether I should use button placement consistent with my app or consistent with OS convention. He described the research behind Apple's choice, and (tho we can expect a certain bias since he directed that research), he presented a strong cognitive argument favoring Apple's approach. But on the question of consistency with user expectations borne of immersion in an OS, even where the OS convention is arguably inferior, he was equally clear: Consistency is far more important. Otherwise, users have to develop a very muddled rule that includes, "except sometimes." > And optionally, an opened ended question: Does your answer depend > of what platforms you are deploying for? I'd be surprised if it doesn't. Look at LC itself, made in a mostly-Mac office and more conformant with Mac conventions than with Win or Linux. If you don't spend most of your time on Windows, you won't have developed the same expectations as someone who uses it exclusively. But consider this: how many times have we seen a Windows app ported to Mac, and it's obviously a Windows port and it just doesn't feel right? That's how Windows users see Mac ports that play fast and loose with Windows UI conventions. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Sep 28 16:09:28 2023 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 13:09:28 -0700 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: <3B953044-4712-41A1-AA5A-A86641A3D2F4@mac.com> References: <3B953044-4712-41A1-AA5A-A86641A3D2F4@mac.com> Message-ID: <23999fd7-9025-3e3a-47f2-8fa8b23b86d6@fourthworld.com> Keith Martin wrote: > To me, Discord looks like a refugee from a moderately poorly > designed BBS from 30 years ago. I use it (it's the student > comms platform of choice for a course I teach on) and it does > work well in the sense of being very functional, but it offends > me on multiple levels. You're not alone. When I started using it for board game discussions my first response was "Holy hellballz, which overcaffienated stoner fell too deeply in love with IRC?" :) The functionality is great, but even just dropping the hashtag to distinguish channel labels would go a long way to making it look less like an IRC holdover. That said, my circle of friends include a good many who still use IRC daily... -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org Thu Sep 28 16:24:16 2023 From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (William Prothero) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 13:24:16 -0700 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: <23999fd7-9025-3e3a-47f2-8fa8b23b86d6@fourthworld.com> References: <23999fd7-9025-3e3a-47f2-8fa8b23b86d6@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <9C9FD92A-E915-4039-AB2E-D6A4D925155B@earthlearningsolutions.org> Thanks, Richard. After I looked into discord privacy policies, I realized that my audience would not even consider it. I decided to make a simple site using bbpress with wordpress and try to use only free or very low cost plug-ins. Most of my programming time in the last year was building a complex wordpress site to support our retirees association. So, I got pretty good with wordpress and figure putting together a basic discussion site will be pretty quick. Of course, privacy is huge issue. I've found that limiting login tries and using captcha seem to work well. Also, I have a plugin that won't accept non US ip addresses to help. The biggest development problem is choosing the plugins from the massive number that claim to be the best. Then it takes a day to find out they can't do what you want. Thanks again for the info. Best, Bill William A. Prothero, PhD Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science University of California, Santa Barbara > On Sep 28, 2023, at 8:12 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > Keith Martin wrote: > > > To me, Discord looks like a refugee from a moderately poorly > > designed BBS from 30 years ago. I use it (it's the student > > comms platform of choice for a course I teach on) and it does > > work well in the sense of being very functional, but it offends > > me on multiple levels. > > You're not alone. When I started using it for board game discussions my first response was "Holy hellballz, which overcaffienated stoner fell too deeply in love with IRC?" :) > > The functionality is great, but even just dropping the hashtag to distinguish channel labels would go a long way to making it look less like an IRC holdover. > > That said, my circle of friends include a good many who still use IRC daily... > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Sep 28 16:39:12 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 20:39:12 +0000 Subject: Forum Software LC? In-Reply-To: <23999fd7-9025-3e3a-47f2-8fa8b23b86d6@fourthworld.com> References: <3B953044-4712-41A1-AA5A-A86641A3D2F4@mac.com> <23999fd7-9025-3e3a-47f2-8fa8b23b86d6@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <88647046-ABDD-4248-895D-D0C37F56F3A2@iotecdigital.com> You seem like a World Of Warcraft guy to me. Bob S > On Sep 28, 2023, at 1:09 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > Keith Martin wrote: > > > To me, Discord looks like a refugee from a moderately poorly > > designed BBS from 30 years ago. I use it (it's the student > > comms platform of choice for a course I teach on) and it does > > work well in the sense of being very functional, but it offends > > me on multiple levels. > > You're not alone. When I started using it for board game discussions my first response was "Holy hellballz, which overcaffienated stoner fell too deeply in love with IRC?" :) > > The functionality is great, but even just dropping the hashtag to distinguish channel labels would go a long way to making it look less like an IRC holdover. > > That said, my circle of friends include a good many who still use IRC daily... > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Sep 28 16:53:47 2023 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 20:53:47 +0000 Subject: [OT] Re: Forum Software LC? Message-ID: <20230928205347.Horde.D40f-3yx3Yqxw2LmCCZW0ev@hub.4wsys.com> Bob Sneidar wrote: > Richard wrote: >> That said, my circle of friends include a good many who still use IRC daily... > > You seem like a World Of Warcraft guy to me.   Worse: Mage Knight :)   --   Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems   From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Sep 28 17:15:41 2023 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 21:15:41 +0000 Subject: [OT] Re: Forum Software LC? Message-ID: <20230928211541.Horde.IvKPox99Yz2-QIm8GPCAoPX@hub.4wsys.com> Dan Brown wrote: > A lot of corporations are indeed making a ton of money off > the back of free labour and free software. Thanks Stallman   Public goods benefit the public. I trust that those who choose to volunteer to contribute to public goods understand that will include businesses as well as individuals.   The relationship is often symbiotic: Apple is one of the key funders of what began as KDE's WebKit, a browser engine widely used far beyond Safari. Heroku has full-time staff contributing to PostgreSQL. Adobe and Microsoft are platinum funders of the Linux Foundation, where 3/4 of kernel contributors are salaried.   Even in my modest corner of the world, my business derives so much value from Ubuntu, Nextcloud, Inkscape, SuiteCRM, and others that I contribute to those projects where I can.   There is the occasional rug-pull from FOSS corps, like Oracle's infamous shenanigans with MySQL and OpenOffice, attempting to turn Free into Freemium.  But those are few, and often backfire: MySQL was forked to MariaDB, OpenOffice forked to LibreOffice, even Owncloud forked to NextCloud, in each case bringing key devs and often the project founder with them.   I'm not familiar with anything Stallman has written advocating rug pulls or labor exploitation, but if I'm missing something I wouldn't mind catching up on that if you'll point the way.   --   Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems   From irog at mac.com Thu Sep 28 22:22:33 2023 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 19:22:33 -0700 Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma In-Reply-To: <20230928205347.Horde.D40f-3yx3Yqxw2LmCCZW0ev@hub.4wsys.com> References: <20230928205347.Horde.D40f-3yx3Yqxw2LmCCZW0ev@hub.4wsys.com> Message-ID: Hope to find help here. LC Versions 9.6.3, 9.6.9, and 10.0.0 all give me the “LiveCode quit unexpectedly" on launch after upgrading to Sonoma v14.0 on my Mac, And no, Reopen does not work either. Please help. Thanks, Roger From irog at mac.com Thu Sep 28 22:51:03 2023 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 19:51:03 -0700 Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma In-Reply-To: References: <20230928205347.Horde.D40f-3yx3Yqxw2LmCCZW0ev@hub.4wsys.com> Message-ID: <7358D74D-C3DF-4E06-A694-26E4E725B22E@mac.com> Ok, I guess I’ve been out to Lunch. A review of the list revealed that V9.6.10 works. Downloaded it and indeed it does work. Is that the whole story? Will the older Community versions not work in Sonoma forevermore? Roger > On Sep 28, 2023, at 7:22 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: > > Hope to find help here. LC Versions 9.6.3, 9.6.9, and 10.0.0 all give me the “LiveCode quit unexpectedly" on launch after upgrading to Sonoma v14.0 on my Mac, And no, Reopen does not work either. Please help. > > Thanks, > > Roger > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Fri Sep 29 04:02:34 2023 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 11:02:34 +0300 Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma In-Reply-To: <7358D74D-C3DF-4E06-A694-26E4E725B22E@mac.com> References: <20230928205347.Horde.D40f-3yx3Yqxw2LmCCZW0ev@hub.4wsys.com> <7358D74D-C3DF-4E06-A694-26E4E725B22E@mac.com> Message-ID: Not as far as I can tell: currently upgrading to the 14.1 beta release, and if that fails I have to spend "a dirty weekend" 'degrading' to MacOS 13 Ventura and then, on the basis of my Time Machine backup, 'putting all the pieces together again'. Best [or, in the light of Apple's non-backwardly-compatible thing': Worst], Richmond. On 29.09.23 5:51, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: > Ok, I guess Ive been out to Lunch. A review of the list revealed that V9.6.10 works. Downloaded it and indeed it does work. Is that the whole story? Will the older Community versions not work in Sonoma forevermore? > > Roger > > >> On Sep 28, 2023, at 7:22PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Hope to find help here. LC Versions 9.6.3, 9.6.9, and 10.0.0 all give me the LiveCode quit unexpectedly" on launch after upgrading to Sonoma v14.0 on my Mac, And no, Reopen does not work either. Please help. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Roger >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Fri Sep 29 07:22:01 2023 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 07:22:01 -0400 Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma In-Reply-To: References: <20230928205347.Horde.D40f-3yx3Yqxw2LmCCZW0ev@hub.4wsys.com> Message-ID: I've not tested personally, but I have been told that STANDALONEs build on 9.6.9 work on Sonoma. Can any one running Sonoma test confirm this? (Perhaps again?) On 9/28/2023 10:22 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: > Hope to find help here. LC Versions 9.6.3, 9.6.9, and 10.0.0 all give me the LiveCode quit unexpectedly" on launch after upgrading to Sonoma v14.0 on my Mac, And no, Reopen does not work either. Please help. > > Thanks, > > Roger > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From gcanyon at gmail.com Fri Sep 29 08:12:08 2023 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 08:12:08 -0400 Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma In-Reply-To: References: <20230928205347.Horde.D40f-3yx3Yqxw2LmCCZW0ev@hub.4wsys.com> Message-ID: Confirming that 9.6.9 dies immediately on launch for me. I have a standalone I built with one of the 9.6.x builds, and that doesn't die (at least not immediately). gc On Fri, Sep 29, 2023 at 7:23 AM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I've not tested personally, but I have been told that STANDALONEs build > on 9.6.9 work on Sonoma. > > Can any one running Sonoma test confirm this? (Perhaps again?) > > > On 9/28/2023 10:22 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: > > Hope to find help here. LC Versions 9.6.3, 9.6.9, and 10.0.0 all give me > the “LiveCode quit unexpectedly" on launch after upgrading to Sonoma v14.0 > on my Mac, And no, Reopen does not work either. Please help. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Roger > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From tore.nilsen at me.com Fri Sep 29 08:41:57 2023 From: tore.nilsen at me.com (Tore Nilsen) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 14:41:57 +0200 Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma In-Reply-To: References: <20230928205347.Horde.D40f-3yx3Yqxw2LmCCZW0ev@hub.4wsys.com> Message-ID: <48E16E69-B02A-4CE0-B03E-4E1F3615187E@me.com> LiveCode 9.6.9 Build 15604 works in Sonoma, the same goes for LiveCode 10 DP6. Try to download 9.6.9 again, you may have an older build of 9.6.9. Tore > 29. sep. 2023 kl. 14:12 skrev Geoff Canyon via use-livecode : > > Confirming that 9.6.9 dies immediately on launch for me. > > I have a standalone I built with one of the 9.6.x builds, and that doesn't > die (at least not immediately). > > gc > > On Fri, Sep 29, 2023 at 7:23 AM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> I've not tested personally, but I have been told that STANDALONEs build >> on 9.6.9 work on Sonoma. >> >> Can any one running Sonoma test confirm this? (Perhaps again?) >> >> >> On 9/28/2023 10:22 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >>> Hope to find help here. LC Versions 9.6.3, 9.6.9, and 10.0.0 all give me >> the “LiveCode quit unexpectedly" on launch after upgrading to Sonoma v14.0 >> on my Mac, And no, Reopen does not work either. Please help. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Roger >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Fri Sep 29 08:42:58 2023 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 15:42:58 +0300 Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma In-Reply-To: References: <20230928205347.Horde.D40f-3yx3Yqxw2LmCCZW0ev@hub.4wsys.com> Message-ID: I have successfully run a build of my 'Devawriter Pro' built with LC 9.6.3 Open Source on an early beta of MacOS 14. My DWPro builds contain NONE of the inclusions. Your mileage may vary. Best, Richmond. On Fri, 29 Sept 2023, 15:13 Geoff Canyon via use-livecode, < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Confirming that 9.6.9 dies immediately on launch for me. > > I have a standalone I built with one of the 9.6.x builds, and that doesn't > die (at least not immediately). > > gc > > On Fri, Sep 29, 2023 at 7:23 AM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > I've not tested personally, but I have been told that STANDALONEs build > > on 9.6.9 work on Sonoma. > > > > Can any one running Sonoma test confirm this? (Perhaps again?) > > > > > > On 9/28/2023 10:22 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: > > > Hope to find help here. LC Versions 9.6.3, 9.6.9, and 10.0.0 all give > me > > the “LiveCode quit unexpectedly" on launch after upgrading to Sonoma > v14.0 > > on my Mac, And no, Reopen does not work either. Please help. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Roger > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From james at thehales.id.au Fri Sep 29 11:10:19 2023 From: james at thehales.id.au (James At The Hales) Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2023 01:10:19 +1000 Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma Message-ID: <3A29D95F-042C-499F-9F27-DA6C95E95496@thehales.id.au> LC 10 dp6 and the current 9.6.10 all work for me on Sonoma. 14.0 Builds from both work, although for me the build process for 10dp6 doesn’t end (the standalone is built though). Also the dictionary in 10dp6 doesn’t work on my mac. James From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 29 11:30:12 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 15:30:12 +0000 Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma In-Reply-To: References: <20230928205347.Horde.D40f-3yx3Yqxw2LmCCZW0ev@hub.4wsys.com> Message-ID: <42B006DF-2B8E-478A-8F24-5794F08DE934@iotecdigital.com> As always, remove all your plugins and try again. Also, just spitballing but do you have your firewall enabled? LC checks for licensing on launch (correct me if I am wrong). Bob S > On Sep 28, 2023, at 7:22 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: > > Hope to find help here. LC Versions 9.6.3, 9.6.9, and 10.0.0 all give me the “LiveCode quit unexpectedly" on launch after upgrading to Sonoma v14.0 on my Mac, And no, Reopen does not work either. Please help. > > Thanks, > > Roger > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From irog at mac.com Fri Sep 29 12:33:44 2023 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 09:33:44 -0700 Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma In-Reply-To: <42B006DF-2B8E-478A-8F24-5794F08DE934@iotecdigital.com> References: <20230928205347.Horde.D40f-3yx3Yqxw2LmCCZW0ev@hub.4wsys.com> <42B006DF-2B8E-478A-8F24-5794F08DE934@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <846EAF6A-1C6D-4830-8EC0-7F504F05423C@mac.com> Thanks, Bob, I’ll give that a try later today. At least I am up and running with LC 9.6.10. Roger > On Sep 29, 2023, at 8:30 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > As always, remove all your plugins and try again. Also, just spitballing but do you have your firewall enabled? LC checks for licensing on launch (correct me if I am wrong). > > Bob S > > >> On Sep 28, 2023, at 7:22 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Hope to find help here. LC Versions 9.6.3, 9.6.9, and 10.0.0 all give me the “LiveCode quit unexpectedly" on launch after upgrading to Sonoma v14.0 on my Mac, And no, Reopen does not work either. Please help. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Roger >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Fri Sep 29 14:30:33 2023 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Eller, Roger) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 18:30:33 +0000 Subject: Fun with ChatGPT creating LC script Message-ID: I asked ChatGPT to solve this problem, which it did perfectly. Then I asked ChatGPT to create code in LiveCode to solve the same problem. It generated some surprisingly great "looking" LC script which on the surface seemed like it would work. I allowed ChatGPT 4 tries to generate functional and complete code to solve this problem. It was never able to. Try it. It's interesting to see the variations that it comes up with. PROBLEM in plain English: If there is a finite number of colored slots on a board; let’s say 15, the first 4 are filled. Also slot 7 and 9 are filled. I have 6 new colors that I need to store in open slots. Which available slots can I put these 6 colors without leaving any gaps? Each color must be unique. ChatGPT response: To place 6 new colors in the available slots without leaving any gaps, you'll need to use slots that are consecutive and unoccupied. In your scenario, you have a board with 15 slots, and the first 4 are filled, slot 7 is filled, and slot 9 is filled. So, you have the following situation: 1. Filled 2. Filled 3. Filled 4. Filled 5. Available 6. Available 7. Filled 8. Available 9. Filled 10. Available 11. Available 12. Available 13. Available 14. Available 15. Available To place 6 unique colors without any gaps, you can use slots 5, 6, 8, 10, 11, and 12. This will fill all the available slots without any gaps: 1. Filled 2. Filled 3. Filled 4. Filled 5. New Color 6. New Color 7. Filled 8. New Color 9. Filled 10. New Color 11. New Color 12. New Color 13. Available 14. Available 15. Available Now you've placed 6 unique colors in the available slots without any gaps. /END ChatGPT response From derek-lc-list at speedbump.io Fri Sep 29 14:53:14 2023 From: derek-lc-list at speedbump.io (Derek Bump) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 13:53:14 -0500 Subject: Fun with ChatGPT creating LC script In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5cd0b456-8bd7-c75f-9901-33f20acc2e66@speedbump.io> Hello Roger, It is indeed a lot of fun, I couldn't agree more! What's truly amazing is how often I can transform that impressive "looking" LC script into something actually functional. Using LLMs in combination with the Script Profiler was all the proof I needed to ensure LLMs are now a dedicated part of my workflow. I do wish there was an offline model that didn't produce just javascript-laden gibberish, but I have a feeling that won't be the case for much longer. Thanks for sharing, Derek Bump On 9/29/23 13:30, Eller, Roger via use-livecode wrote: > Then I asked ChatGPT to create code in LiveCode to solve the same problem. It generated some surprisingly great "looking" LC script which on the surface seemed like it would work. I allowed ChatGPT 4 tries to generate functional and complete code to solve this problem. It was never able to. Try it. It's interesting to see the variations that it comes up with. From irog at mac.com Fri Sep 29 16:26:05 2023 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 13:26:05 -0700 Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma In-Reply-To: <846EAF6A-1C6D-4830-8EC0-7F504F05423C@mac.com> References: <20230928205347.Horde.D40f-3yx3Yqxw2LmCCZW0ev@hub.4wsys.com> <42B006DF-2B8E-478A-8F24-5794F08DE934@iotecdigital.com> <846EAF6A-1C6D-4830-8EC0-7F504F05423C@mac.com> Message-ID: Nope, removing the plugins is not the answer to making LiveCode work in Sonoma. To be clear, I have found that LC 9.6.10 is the only version that works in Sonoma. I’m not sure if there is a subsequent version of 10.0.0 (DP 4) that might work? Oh and Firewall is inactive Roger > On Sep 29, 2023, at 9:33 AM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: > > Thanks, Bob, I’ll give that a try later today. At least I am up and running with LC 9.6.10. > > Roger > >> On Sep 29, 2023, at 8:30 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: >> >> As always, remove all your plugins and try again. Also, just spitballing but do you have your firewall enabled? LC checks for licensing on launch (correct me if I am wrong). >> >> Bob S >> >> >>> On Sep 28, 2023, at 7:22 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> Hope to find help here. LC Versions 9.6.3, 9.6.9, and 10.0.0 all give me the “LiveCode quit unexpectedly" on launch after upgrading to Sonoma v14.0 on my Mac, And no, Reopen does not work either. Please help. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Roger >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From irog at mac.com Fri Sep 29 17:03:27 2023 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 14:03:27 -0700 Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma In-Reply-To: References: <20230928205347.Horde.D40f-3yx3Yqxw2LmCCZW0ev@hub.4wsys.com> <42B006DF-2B8E-478A-8F24-5794F08DE934@iotecdigital.com> <846EAF6A-1C6D-4830-8EC0-7F504F05423C@mac.com> Message-ID: <45E089F9-D648-45D0-B983-E01366903AB4@mac.com> Finally, I can confirm that 10.0.0-dp-6 works in Sonoma Roger > On Sep 29, 2023, at 1:26 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: > > Nope, removing the plugins is not the answer to making LiveCode work in Sonoma. To be clear, I have found that LC 9.6.10 is the only version that works in Sonoma. I’m not sure if there is a subsequent version of 10.0.0 (DP 4) that might work? > > Oh and Firewall is inactive > > > Roger > >> On Sep 29, 2023, at 9:33 AM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Thanks, Bob, I’ll give that a try later today. At least I am up and running with LC 9.6.10. >> >> Roger >> >>> On Sep 29, 2023, at 8:30 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> As always, remove all your plugins and try again. Also, just spitballing but do you have your firewall enabled? LC checks for licensing on launch (correct me if I am wrong). >>> >>> Bob S >>> >>> >>>> On Sep 28, 2023, at 7:22 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >>>> >>>> Hope to find help here. LC Versions 9.6.3, 9.6.9, and 10.0.0 all give me the “LiveCode quit unexpectedly" on launch after upgrading to Sonoma v14.0 on my Mac, And no, Reopen does not work either. Please help. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Roger >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Fri Sep 29 18:44:20 2023 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2023 00:44:20 +0200 Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma In-Reply-To: <45E089F9-D648-45D0-B983-E01366903AB4@mac.com> References: <20230928205347.Horde.D40f-3yx3Yqxw2LmCCZW0ev@hub.4wsys.com> <42B006DF-2B8E-478A-8F24-5794F08DE934@iotecdigital.com> <846EAF6A-1C6D-4830-8EC0-7F504F05423C@mac.com> <45E089F9-D648-45D0-B983-E01366903AB4@mac.com> Message-ID: <00BF1E83-64C1-4337-92F0-813B073D5574@m-r-d.de> While checking the different binaries of the app bundles of 9.6.9, 9.6.10, 10dp4 and 10.dp6 i noticed that only 9.6.10 and 10DP6 app bundles have all their binaries completely code signed. I just checked the content of the macOS folder of the app bundles, but there for example the livecode executables of 9.6.10 and 10DP6 have valid signature, but the livecode executables of 9.6.9 and 10DP4 haven't. So maybe this is the reason why the older releases do not work in Sonoma. If you have a current Apple Developer subscription you could try to code sign and notarize the complete app bundle of 9.6.9 for example. Maybe this will allow to run these versions under Sonoma. I did this some time ago, if i remember right then with 10DP2 and an "enhanced" plist to get an other problem fixed. https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23576 > Am 29.09.2023 um 23:03 schrieb Roger Guay via use-livecode : > > Finally, I can confirm that 10.0.0-dp-6 works in Sonoma > > Roger > >> On Sep 29, 2023, at 1:26 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Nope, removing the plugins is not the answer to making LiveCode work in Sonoma. To be clear, I have found that LC 9.6.10 is the only version that works in Sonoma. I’m not sure if there is a subsequent version of 10.0.0 (DP 4) that might work? >> >> Oh and Firewall is inactive >> >> >> Roger >> >>> On Sep 29, 2023, at 9:33 AM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> Thanks, Bob, I’ll give that a try later today. At least I am up and running with LC 9.6.10. >>> >>> Roger >>> >>>> On Sep 29, 2023, at 8:30 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: >>>> >>>> As always, remove all your plugins and try again. Also, just spitballing but do you have your firewall enabled? LC checks for licensing on launch (correct me if I am wrong). >>>> >>>> Bob S >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Sep 28, 2023, at 7:22 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hope to find help here. LC Versions 9.6.3, 9.6.9, and 10.0.0 all give me the “LiveCode quit unexpectedly" on launch after upgrading to Sonoma v14.0 on my Mac, And no, Reopen does not work either. Please help. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Roger >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 29 19:22:31 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 23:22:31 +0000 Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma In-Reply-To: <00BF1E83-64C1-4337-92F0-813B073D5574@m-r-d.de> References: <20230928205347.Horde.D40f-3yx3Yqxw2LmCCZW0ev@hub.4wsys.com> <42B006DF-2B8E-478A-8F24-5794F08DE934@iotecdigital.com> <846EAF6A-1C6D-4830-8EC0-7F504F05423C@mac.com> <45E089F9-D648-45D0-B983-E01366903AB4@mac.com> <00BF1E83-64C1-4337-92F0-813B073D5574@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <91B6AAE5-5DEB-47AA-8F12-CD7F20A05DCC@iotecdigital.com> Hmmm… I wonder if we can expect ALL unsigned apps to crash under Sonoma? Bob S On Sep 29, 2023, at 3:44 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: While checking the different binaries of the app bundles of 9.6.9, 9.6.10, 10dp4 and 10.dp6 i noticed that only 9.6.10 and 10DP6 app bundles have all their binaries completely code signed. I just checked the content of the macOS folder of the app bundles, but there for example the livecode executables of 9.6.10 and 10DP6 have valid signature, but the livecode executables of 9.6.9 and 10DP4 haven't. So maybe this is the reason why the older releases do not work in Sonoma. If you have a current Apple Developer subscription you could try to code sign and notarize the complete app bundle of 9.6.9 for example. Maybe this will allow to run these versions under Sonoma. I did this some time ago, if i remember right then with 10DP2 and an "enhanced" plist to get an other problem fixed. https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23576 Am 29.09.2023 um 23:03 schrieb Roger Guay via use-livecode >: Finally, I can confirm that 10.0.0-dp-6 works in Sonoma Roger From irog at mac.com Fri Sep 29 19:34:41 2023 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 16:34:41 -0700 Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma In-Reply-To: <91B6AAE5-5DEB-47AA-8F12-CD7F20A05DCC@iotecdigital.com> References: <20230928205347.Horde.D40f-3yx3Yqxw2LmCCZW0ev@hub.4wsys.com> <42B006DF-2B8E-478A-8F24-5794F08DE934@iotecdigital.com> <846EAF6A-1C6D-4830-8EC0-7F504F05423C@mac.com> <45E089F9-D648-45D0-B983-E01366903AB4@mac.com> <00BF1E83-64C1-4337-92F0-813B073D5574@m-r-d.de> <91B6AAE5-5DEB-47AA-8F12-CD7F20A05DCC@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: If you mean unsigned standalones, I just checked one of mine developed probably in 9.6 or 9.7 and it worked. Roger > On Sep 29, 2023, at 4:22 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > Hmmm… I wonder if we can expect ALL unsigned apps to crash under Sonoma? > > Bob S > > > On Sep 29, 2023, at 3:44 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > > While checking the different binaries of the app bundles of 9.6.9, 9.6.10, 10dp4 and 10.dp6 i noticed > that only 9.6.10 and 10DP6 app bundles have all their binaries completely code signed. > > I just checked the content of the macOS folder of the app bundles, but there for example the livecode executables of 9.6.10 and 10DP6 have valid signature, but the livecode executables of 9.6.9 and 10DP4 haven't. > So maybe this is the reason why the older releases do not work in Sonoma. > > If you have a current Apple Developer subscription you could try to code sign and notarize the complete app bundle of 9.6.9 for example. Maybe this will allow to run these versions under Sonoma. > I did this some time ago, if i remember right then with 10DP2 and an "enhanced" plist to get an other problem fixed. > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23576 > > > > > Am 29.09.2023 um 23:03 schrieb Roger Guay via use-livecode >: > > Finally, I can confirm that 10.0.0-dp-6 works in Sonoma > > Roger > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Fri Sep 29 19:39:52 2023 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe) Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2023 01:39:52 +0200 Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma In-Reply-To: <91B6AAE5-5DEB-47AA-8F12-CD7F20A05DCC@iotecdigital.com> References: <91B6AAE5-5DEB-47AA-8F12-CD7F20A05DCC@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <3A11141C-8885-4AFD-9D5E-C17867B78279@m-r-d.de> Maybe my observation is not the reason for the crash. Would really not make sense, when an unsigned app would crash instead of reporting an alert. But code signing the complete Livecode app bundle would proof it. Did someone btw had a look at the system log file after the crash? Von meinem iPhone gesendet > Am 30.09.2023 um 01:23 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode : > > Hmmm… I wonder if we can expect ALL unsigned apps to crash under Sonoma? > > Bob S > > > On Sep 29, 2023, at 3:44 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > > While checking the different binaries of the app bundles of 9.6.9, 9.6.10, 10dp4 and 10.dp6 i noticed > that only 9.6.10 and 10DP6 app bundles have all their binaries completely code signed. > > I just checked the content of the macOS folder of the app bundles, but there for example the livecode executables of 9.6.10 and 10DP6 have valid signature, but the livecode executables of 9.6.9 and 10DP4 haven't. > So maybe this is the reason why the older releases do not work in Sonoma. > > If you have a current Apple Developer subscription you could try to code sign and notarize the complete app bundle of 9.6.9 for example. Maybe this will allow to run these versions under Sonoma. > I did this some time ago, if i remember right then with 10DP2 and an "enhanced" plist to get an other problem fixed. > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23576 > > > > > Am 29.09.2023 um 23:03 schrieb Roger Guay via use-livecode >: > > Finally, I can confirm that 10.0.0-dp-6 works in Sonoma > > Roger > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 29 19:52:08 2023 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 23:52:08 +0000 Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma In-Reply-To: References: <20230928205347.Horde.D40f-3yx3Yqxw2LmCCZW0ev@hub.4wsys.com> <42B006DF-2B8E-478A-8F24-5794F08DE934@iotecdigital.com> <846EAF6A-1C6D-4830-8EC0-7F504F05423C@mac.com> <45E089F9-D648-45D0-B983-E01366903AB4@mac.com> <00BF1E83-64C1-4337-92F0-813B073D5574@m-r-d.de> <91B6AAE5-5DEB-47AA-8F12-CD7F20A05DCC@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <066AF6CB-1246-42E5-9625-8AB9707DD267@iotecdigital.com> I mean unsigned anything. I use some utility apps unrelated to Livecode which I had to allow when I ran them the first time if memory serves. Bob S > On Sep 29, 2023, at 4:34 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: > > If you mean unsigned standalones, I just checked one of mine developed probably in 9.6 or 9.7 and it worked. > > Roger > >> On Sep 29, 2023, at 4:22 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Hmmm… I wonder if we can expect ALL unsigned apps to crash under Sonoma? >> >> Bob S >> >> >> On Sep 29, 2023, at 3:44 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: >> >> While checking the different binaries of the app bundles of 9.6.9, 9.6.10, 10dp4 and 10.dp6 i noticed >> that only 9.6.10 and 10DP6 app bundles have all their binaries completely code signed. >> >> I just checked the content of the macOS folder of the app bundles, but there for example the livecode executables of 9.6.10 and 10DP6 have valid signature, but the livecode executables of 9.6.9 and 10DP4 haven't. >> So maybe this is the reason why the older releases do not work in Sonoma. >> >> If you have a current Apple Developer subscription you could try to code sign and notarize the complete app bundle of 9.6.9 for example. Maybe this will allow to run these versions under Sonoma. >> I did this some time ago, if i remember right then with 10DP2 and an "enhanced" plist to get an other problem fixed. >> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23576 >> >> >> >> >> Am 29.09.2023 um 23:03 schrieb Roger Guay via use-livecode >: >> >> Finally, I can confirm that 10.0.0-dp-6 works in Sonoma >> >> Roger >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode