From scott at elementarysoftware.com  Sun Oct  1 04:07:05 2023
From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (scott at elementarysoftware.com)
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2023 01:07:05 -0700
Subject: Samsung Galaxy Android Nav Bar
Message-ID: <F559622C-EAFE-4B0E-9D0A-F41913AC2B1A@elementarysoftware.com>

I’m having trouble with the on-screen Navigation Bar at the bottom of the Android screen not being detected correctly on some devices (Samsung Galaxy S22 for instance). When positioning controls based on < the working screenRect > I end up with app controls that I position at the bottom of the screen being partially obscured by the Android NavBar. (I did also try < effective working screenRect > just in case but that didn’t help either… just like it wasn’t supposed to  :- )

I suppose this may have been an issue for a long time and I’ve just never noticed. It doesn’t seem to show up on any of the Android Studio simulators and I only have a couple of older physical android devices to test against, which also work as expected. I only recently noticed it on a friends newer Samsung device and then was able to test against it further using the Samsung developer portal which includes a nice “remote test lab” <https://developer.samsung.com/remotetestlab/devices/125/galaxy-s>

Any suggestions (or commiseration) would be welcome.

--
Scott Morrow

Elementary Software
(Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
web       https://elementarysoftware.com/
email     scott at elementarysoftware.com
booth    1-360-734-4701
------------------------------------------------------









From rolf.kocherhans at uzh.ch  Tue Oct  3 04:53:09 2023
From: rolf.kocherhans at uzh.ch (Rolf Kocherhans)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2023 08:53:09 +0000
Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1696089601.89108.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.1.1696089601.89108.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <B4839189-B0EC-4D3F-AB4B-2C04F0EB0563@uzh.ch>

@Matthias and the Mothership,

My Apple Developer account expired several years ago, and I'm facing a critical issue with one of my LiveCode Apps, Clarify, developed by Trevor DeVore. This app is extremely important to me.

Unfortunately, Clarify is no longer actively developed and has started crashing with Sonoma. I am wondering if there's a possibility to resolve this issue by signing the bundles. I am more than willing to invest in a new subscription with Apple if that's what it takes – I can't imagine my work without Clarify.

Could someone please test if signing the bundles might make an app functional again?
Your assistance in this matter would mean the world to me.

Cheers,
Rolf

Am 30.09.2023 um 18:00 schrieb use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com:

Maybe my observation is not the reason for the crash. Would really not make sense, when an unsigned app would crash instead of reporting an alert.

But code signing  the complete Livecode app bundle would proof it.

Did someone btw had a look at the system log file after the crash?


From heather at livecode.com  Tue Oct  3 06:24:49 2023
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2023 11:24:49 +0100
Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <B4839189-B0EC-4D3F-AB4B-2C04F0EB0563@uzh.ch>
References: <mailman.1.1696089601.89108.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <B4839189-B0EC-4D3F-AB4B-2C04F0EB0563@uzh.ch>
Message-ID: <8B04CB3A-EE65-4346-BC42-B5A10E599003@livecode.com>

Hi Rolf,

No, the problem is not related to signing. The problem centers on how Sonoma handles menus, and any app that contains a menu will crash on Sonoma unless built with LiveCode 9.6.10 or 10 dp-6.

Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 3 Oct 2023, at 09:53, Rolf Kocherhans via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> @Matthias and the Mothership,
> 
> My Apple Developer account expired several years ago, and I'm facing a critical issue with one of my LiveCode Apps, Clarify, developed by Trevor DeVore. This app is extremely important to me.
> 
> Unfortunately, Clarify is no longer actively developed and has started crashing with Sonoma. I am wondering if there's a possibility to resolve this issue by signing the bundles. I am more than willing to invest in a new subscription with Apple if that's what it takes – I can't imagine my work without Clarify.
> 
> Could someone please test if signing the bundles might make an app functional again?
> Your assistance in this matter would mean the world to me.
> 
> Cheers,
> Rolf
> 
> Am 30.09.2023 um 18:00 schrieb use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com:
> 
> Maybe my observation is not the reason for the crash. Would really not make sense, when an unsigned app would crash instead of reporting an alert.
> 
> But code signing  the complete Livecode app bundle would proof it.
> 
> Did someone btw had a look at the system log file after the crash?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Tue Oct  3 06:53:01 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2023 12:53:01 +0200
Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <8B04CB3A-EE65-4346-BC42-B5A10E599003@livecode.com>
References: <mailman.1.1696089601.89108.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <B4839189-B0EC-4D3F-AB4B-2C04F0EB0563@uzh.ch>
 <8B04CB3A-EE65-4346-BC42-B5A10E599003@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <05A7E909-CE87-47A0-B288-ADEB8F18643C@m-r-d.de>

Hi Heather,

thanks for clarifying the reason for the crashes.

At least this grants that standalones created with older LC versions will run as long as they do not contain a customized menu, right?

Regards,
Matthias


> Am 03.10.2023 um 12:24 schrieb Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi Rolf,
> 
> No, the problem is not related to signing. The problem centers on how Sonoma handles menus, and any app that contains a menu will crash on Sonoma unless built with LiveCode 9.6.10 or 10 dp-6.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On 3 Oct 2023, at 09:53, Rolf Kocherhans via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> @Matthias and the Mothership,
>> 
>> My Apple Developer account expired several years ago, and I'm facing a critical issue with one of my LiveCode Apps, Clarify, developed by Trevor DeVore. This app is extremely important to me.
>> 
>> Unfortunately, Clarify is no longer actively developed and has started crashing with Sonoma. I am wondering if there's a possibility to resolve this issue by signing the bundles. I am more than willing to invest in a new subscription with Apple if that's what it takes – I can't imagine my work without Clarify.
>> 
>> Could someone please test if signing the bundles might make an app functional again?
>> Your assistance in this matter would mean the world to me.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Rolf
>> 
>> Am 30.09.2023 um 18:00 schrieb use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com:
>> 
>> Maybe my observation is not the reason for the crash. Would really not make sense, when an unsigned app would crash instead of reporting an alert.
>> 
>> But code signing  the complete Livecode app bundle would proof it.
>> 
>> Did someone btw had a look at the system log file after the crash?
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From heather at livecode.com  Tue Oct  3 09:56:31 2023
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2023 14:56:31 +0100
Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <05A7E909-CE87-47A0-B288-ADEB8F18643C@m-r-d.de>
References: <mailman.1.1696089601.89108.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <B4839189-B0EC-4D3F-AB4B-2C04F0EB0563@uzh.ch>
 <8B04CB3A-EE65-4346-BC42-B5A10E599003@livecode.com>
 <05A7E909-CE87-47A0-B288-ADEB8F18643C@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <EF774AE9-5843-455E-87D7-1A0D50AEEA31@livecode.com>

Hi Matthias,

I think ANY menu will cause a crash. |f your app has no menus it will not be affected by the issue. Otherwise, it will crash, as does LiveCode itself  prior to the fix.

Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 3 Oct 2023, at 11:53, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Heather,
> 
> thanks for clarifying the reason for the crashes.
> 
> At least this grants that standalones created with older LC versions will run as long as they do not contain a customized menu, right?
> 
> Regards,
> Matthias
> 
> 
>> Am 03.10.2023 um 12:24 schrieb Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Hi Rolf,
>> 
>> No, the problem is not related to signing. The problem centers on how Sonoma handles menus, and any app that contains a menu will crash on Sonoma unless built with LiveCode 9.6.10 or 10 dp-6.
>> 
>> Best Regards,
>> 
>> Heather
>> 
>> Heather Laine
>> Customer Services Manager
>> LiveCode Ltd
>> www.livecode.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 3 Oct 2023, at 09:53, Rolf Kocherhans via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> @Matthias and the Mothership,
>>> 
>>> My Apple Developer account expired several years ago, and I'm facing a critical issue with one of my LiveCode Apps, Clarify, developed by Trevor DeVore. This app is extremely important to me.
>>> 
>>> Unfortunately, Clarify is no longer actively developed and has started crashing with Sonoma. I am wondering if there's a possibility to resolve this issue by signing the bundles. I am more than willing to invest in a new subscription with Apple if that's what it takes – I can't imagine my work without Clarify.
>>> 
>>> Could someone please test if signing the bundles might make an app functional again?
>>> Your assistance in this matter would mean the world to me.
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> Rolf
>>> 
>>> Am 30.09.2023 um 18:00 schrieb use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com:
>>> 
>>> Maybe my observation is not the reason for the crash. Would really not make sense, when an unsigned app would crash instead of reporting an alert.
>>> 
>>> But code signing  the complete Livecode app bundle would proof it.
>>> 
>>> Did someone btw had a look at the system log file after the crash?
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Tue Oct  3 10:19:28 2023
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2023 10:19:28 -0400
Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <B4839189-B0EC-4D3F-AB4B-2C04F0EB0563@uzh.ch>
References: <mailman.1.1696089601.89108.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <B4839189-B0EC-4D3F-AB4B-2C04F0EB0563@uzh.ch>
Message-ID: <000c01d9f604$a1bf6f40$e53e4dc0$@net>

You think you have it bad. Apple just announced the $17,000 older gold Apple Watches can no longer be fixed or have SW updates. Glad my VB6 apps, Timex and paper maps still work.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Rolf Kocherhans via use-livecode
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2023 4:53 AM
To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Cc: Rolf Kocherhans
Subject: Re: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma

@Matthias and the Mothership,

My Apple Developer account expired several years ago, and I'm facing a critical issue with one of my LiveCode Apps, Clarify, developed by Trevor DeVore. This app is extremely important to me.

Unfortunately, Clarify is no longer actively developed and has started crashing with Sonoma. I am wondering if there's a possibility to resolve this issue by signing the bundles. I am more than willing to invest in a new subscription with Apple if that's what it takes – I can't imagine my work without Clarify.

Could someone please test if signing the bundles might make an app functional again?
Your assistance in this matter would mean the world to me.

Cheers,
Rolf

Am 30.09.2023 um 18:00 schrieb use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com:

Maybe my observation is not the reason for the crash. Would really not make sense, when an unsigned app would crash instead of reporting an alert.

But code signing  the complete Livecode app bundle would proof it.

Did someone btw had a look at the system log file after the crash?

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Tue Oct  3 11:17:46 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2023 15:17:46 +0000
Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <EF774AE9-5843-455E-87D7-1A0D50AEEA31@livecode.com>
References: <mailman.1.1696089601.89108.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <B4839189-B0EC-4D3F-AB4B-2C04F0EB0563@uzh.ch>
 <8B04CB3A-EE65-4346-BC42-B5A10E599003@livecode.com>
 <05A7E909-CE87-47A0-B288-ADEB8F18643C@m-r-d.de>
 <EF774AE9-5843-455E-87D7-1A0D50AEEA31@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <A66944B3-FCDF-41B6-BCBE-E79D86574D1D@iotecdigital.com>

So for those upgrading to Sonoma, 9.6.10 and 10 dp6 are now a rubicon of sorts. There’s no going back. (I just needed to use the word Rubicon in a sentence today.) 

Bob S


> On Oct 3, 2023, at 6:56 AM, Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Matthias,
> 
> I think ANY menu will cause a crash. |f your app has no menus it will not be affected by the issue. Otherwise, it will crash, as does LiveCode itself  prior to the fix.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com


From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Tue Oct  3 12:09:12 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2023 18:09:12 +0200
Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <B4839189-B0EC-4D3F-AB4B-2C04F0EB0563@uzh.ch>
References: <mailman.1.1696089601.89108.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <B4839189-B0EC-4D3F-AB4B-2C04F0EB0563@uzh.ch>
Message-ID: <4974CBE3-DD67-4FBB-AB03-86F217139CD0@m-r-d.de>

Rolf,

now that Heather clarified that this problem has to do with menus,  only the developer of Clarify could help with a working version of Clarify for Sonoma.

Btw. Clarify (and Screensteps 2)  are two of the best tools i've ever used. I am still using Clarify regularly.
There is no real competitor for it. At least i do not know any program that has all the features and user comfort.

There is a program called Folge (https://folge.me <https://folge.me/>) and although i have a license for it and it gets better with each update, I can't get used to it..
Maybe i am just too spoiled by Clarify. ;)

Matthias

> Am 03.10.2023 um 10:53 schrieb Rolf Kocherhans via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> @Matthias and the Mothership,
> 
> My Apple Developer account expired several years ago, and I'm facing a critical issue with one of my LiveCode Apps, Clarify, developed by Trevor DeVore. This app is extremely important to me.
> 
> Unfortunately, Clarify is no longer actively developed and has started crashing with Sonoma. I am wondering if there's a possibility to resolve this issue by signing the bundles. I am more than willing to invest in a new subscription with Apple if that's what it takes – I can't imagine my work without Clarify.
> 
> Could someone please test if signing the bundles might make an app functional again?
> Your assistance in this matter would mean the world to me.
> 
> Cheers,
> Rolf
> 
> Am 30.09.2023 um 18:00 schrieb use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com:
> 
> Maybe my observation is not the reason for the crash. Would really not make sense, when an unsigned app would crash instead of reporting an alert.
> 
> But code signing  the complete Livecode app bundle would proof it.
> 
> Did someone btw had a look at the system log file after the crash?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Tue Oct  3 12:09:44 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2023 18:09:44 +0200
Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <EF774AE9-5843-455E-87D7-1A0D50AEEA31@livecode.com>
References: <mailman.1.1696089601.89108.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <B4839189-B0EC-4D3F-AB4B-2C04F0EB0563@uzh.ch>
 <8B04CB3A-EE65-4346-BC42-B5A10E599003@livecode.com>
 <05A7E909-CE87-47A0-B288-ADEB8F18643C@m-r-d.de>
 <EF774AE9-5843-455E-87D7-1A0D50AEEA31@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <D4AF850C-5177-41BF-BF61-2035877BF9C5@m-r-d.de>

Hello Heather,

i meant that simple default menu that is automatically created when Livecode creates a macOS standalone.

But tested now in Sonoma VM and my older apps without just that simple default menu run w/o problems.

> Am 03.10.2023 um 15:56 schrieb Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi Matthias,
> 
> I think ANY menu will cause a crash. |f your app has no menus it will not be affected by the issue. Otherwise, it will crash, as does LiveCode itself  prior to the fix.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On 3 Oct 2023, at 11:53, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Heather,
>> 
>> thanks for clarifying the reason for the crashes.
>> 
>> At least this grants that standalones created with older LC versions will run as long as they do not contain a customized menu, right?
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Matthias
>> 
>> 
>>> Am 03.10.2023 um 12:24 schrieb Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> Hi Rolf,
>>> 
>>> No, the problem is not related to signing. The problem centers on how Sonoma handles menus, and any app that contains a menu will crash on Sonoma unless built with LiveCode 9.6.10 or 10 dp-6.
>>> 
>>> Best Regards,
>>> 
>>> Heather
>>> 
>>> Heather Laine
>>> Customer Services Manager
>>> LiveCode Ltd
>>> www.livecode.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 3 Oct 2023, at 09:53, Rolf Kocherhans via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> @Matthias and the Mothership,
>>>> 
>>>> My Apple Developer account expired several years ago, and I'm facing a critical issue with one of my LiveCode Apps, Clarify, developed by Trevor DeVore. This app is extremely important to me.
>>>> 
>>>> Unfortunately, Clarify is no longer actively developed and has started crashing with Sonoma. I am wondering if there's a possibility to resolve this issue by signing the bundles. I am more than willing to invest in a new subscription with Apple if that's what it takes – I can't imagine my work without Clarify.
>>>> 
>>>> Could someone please test if signing the bundles might make an app functional again?
>>>> Your assistance in this matter would mean the world to me.
>>>> 
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Rolf
>>>> 
>>>> Am 30.09.2023 um 18:00 schrieb use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com:
>>>> 
>>>> Maybe my observation is not the reason for the crash. Would really not make sense, when an unsigned app would crash instead of reporting an alert.
>>>> 
>>>> But code signing  the complete Livecode app bundle would proof it.
>>>> 
>>>> Did someone btw had a look at the system log file after the crash?
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From dochawk at gmail.com  Tue Oct  3 13:32:49 2023
From: dochawk at gmail.com (doc hawk)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2023 10:32:49 -0700
Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <A66944B3-FCDF-41B6-BCBE-E79D86574D1D@iotecdigital.com>
References: <mailman.1.1696089601.89108.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <B4839189-B0EC-4D3F-AB4B-2C04F0EB0563@uzh.ch>
 <8B04CB3A-EE65-4346-BC42-B5A10E599003@livecode.com>
 <05A7E909-CE87-47A0-B288-ADEB8F18643C@m-r-d.de>
 <EF774AE9-5843-455E-87D7-1A0D50AEEA31@livecode.com>
 <A66944B3-FCDF-41B6-BCBE-E79D86574D1D@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <CANQHZSEYgwyR=1WXHxxa+zGRjcLwEDir0mPkmLuGvxeRBYYE8Q@mail.gmail.com>

bob bobbled,

So for those upgrading to Sonoma, 9.6.10 and 10 dp6 are now a rubicon of
sorts. There’s no going back. (I just needed to use the word Rubicon in a
sentence today.)


Shelly cahn’t speak with wi’out a New Ahngland oxcent, but Rubicon!

Ok, I’ll call back under my rock

From jiml at netrin.com  Tue Oct  3 17:38:00 2023
From: jiml at netrin.com (Jim Lambert)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2023 14:38:00 -0700
Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1696348802.86716.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.1.1696348802.86716.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <A1CE575D-CC51-4436-8325-9AE918781BAE@netrin.com>

> Bob wrote:
> 
> So for those upgrading to Sonoma, 9.6.10 and 10 dp6 are now a rubicon of sorts. There?s no going back. (I just needed to use the word Rubicon in a sentence today.)

Rubicon.  
Does that mean the rubes have been conned?
😉

Jim Lambert

From mark at livecode.com  Wed Oct  4 02:57:14 2023
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2023 07:57:14 +0100
Subject: Livecode 10dp6 and web fonts
In-Reply-To: <31e0834e-343a-5294-7edf-2db21a993001@researchware.com>
References: <31e0834e-343a-5294-7edf-2db21a993001@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <f8c2147871dbb41a50b0eff131025ffd@livecode.com>

On 2023-09-27 15:49, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
> I get the value of web font support in LC10dp6 for WEB based 
> applications.
> 
> However, if you making a multi-platform application, you still have the 
> issue of UI consistency across platforms as web fonts can't be used in 
> desktop standalones (or, I assume, phone standalones)

It is true that web fonts are a 'browser' thing - however, you can still 
download the underlying TTF files from the web font service and include 
them in native standalones if you want to use the same fonts across web 
and native apps (obviously, you need to check the license the fonts are 
served under - but that's true with any non-system fonts you might 
include at the moment).

In the future we could look at making font inclusion easier in 
standalones cross-platform (i.e. allow specifying fonts in the s/b at a 
higher-level and then it doing the right thing) - however, there are 
some engine improvements to font selection across the different 
platforms we need to do first (in particularly, 'fixing' the font 
enumeration properties and allowing specification of different weights 
and stretches via the textStyle properties!).

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things


From paul at researchware.com  Wed Oct  4 06:28:48 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2023 06:28:48 -0400
Subject: Livecode 10dp6 and web fonts
In-Reply-To: <f8c2147871dbb41a50b0eff131025ffd@livecode.com>
References: <31e0834e-343a-5294-7edf-2db21a993001@researchware.com>
 <f8c2147871dbb41a50b0eff131025ffd@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <cb885327-85f2-0134-8cf7-86e4487f18a8@researchware.com>

On 10/4/2023 2:57 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:
> On 2023-09-27 15:49, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
>> I get the value of web font support in LC10dp6 for WEB based 
>> applications.
>>
>> However, if you making a multi-platform application, you still have 
>> the issue of UI consistency across platforms as web fonts can't be 
>> used in desktop standalones (or, I assume, phone standalones)
>
> It is true that web fonts are a 'browser' thing - however, you can 
> still download the underlying TTF files from the web font service and 
> include them in native standalones if you want to use the same fonts 
> across web and native apps (obviously, you need to check the license 
> the fonts are served under - but that's true with any non-system fonts 
> you might include at the moment).
>
> In the future we could look at making font inclusion easier in 
> standalones cross-platform (i.e. allow specifying fonts in the s/b at 
> a higher-level and then it doing the right thing) - however, there are 
> some engine improvements to font selection across the different 
> platforms we need to do first (in particularly, 'fixing' the font 
> enumeration properties and allowing specification of different weights 
> and stretches via the textStyle properties!).
>
> Warmest Regards,
>
> Mark.
>

Thank you again Mark. I did not know that "Web" font, like most (All?) 
Google fonts could be downloaded as TTF files (I just downloaded 
Google's Roboto family - a ZIP with Roboto in various styles as ttf 
files) and use them in Desktop builds  This is good to know. I use 
Google Fonts on a number of web sites. I never thought to even look into 
their use as a downloadable font!



From paul at researchware.com  Wed Oct  4 17:12:39 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2023 17:12:39 -0400
Subject: LC 9.6.10 standalone with Pallette issues under Sonoma
Message-ID: <f86c717a-f4f0-4770-a3fc-df11431d5c8c@researchware.com>

We're just in the middle of testing, but we're seeing some issues where 
the contents of a palette window are not rendering (just an empty 
window) in a Livecode 9.6.10 standalone under macOS Sonoma.

Anyone else see anything like this?



From paul at researchware.com  Wed Oct  4 19:15:22 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2023 19:15:22 -0400
Subject: LC 9.6.10 standalone with Pallette issues under Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <f86c717a-f4f0-4770-a3fc-df11431d5c8c@researchware.com>
References: <f86c717a-f4f0-4770-a3fc-df11431d5c8c@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <ba7a887a-3596-9f5d-bf2d-7c28755800c8@researchware.com>

On 10/4/2023 5:12 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
> We're just in the middle of testing, but we're seeing some issues 
> where the contents of a palette window are not rendering (just an 
> empty window) in a Livecode 9.6.10 standalone under macOS Sonoma.
>
> Anyone else see anything like this?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

We're also seeing that fields that contain in-line images among the 
text/content of the field do not render under Sonoma using a standalone 
built on LC 9.6.10. Thursday, we'll try to make a sample test stack to 
confirm this.



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu Oct  5 17:24:29 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2023 21:24:29 +0000
Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <A1CE575D-CC51-4436-8325-9AE918781BAE@netrin.com>
References: <mailman.1.1696348802.86716.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <A1CE575D-CC51-4436-8325-9AE918781BAE@netrin.com>
Message-ID: <F406FDFF-66FC-4147-8722-CDAF5E9B882E@iotecdigital.com>

I think it refers to the belly rub emoji. (Rub Icon? Anyone?? <sigh> never mind.)

Bob S


> On Oct 3, 2023, at 2:38 PM, Jim Lambert via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Bob wrote:
>> 
>> So for those upgrading to Sonoma, 9.6.10 and 10 dp6 are now a rubicon of sorts. There?s no going back. (I just needed to use the word Rubicon in a sentence today.)
> 
> Rubicon.  
> Does that mean the rubes have been conned?
> 😉
> 
> Jim Lambert
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From paul at researchware.com  Thu Oct  5 17:44:26 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2023 17:44:26 -0400
Subject: AW: LC 9.6.10 standalone with Pallette issues under Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <f86c717a-f4f0-4770-a3fc-df11431d5c8c@researchware.com>
References: <f86c717a-f4f0-4770-a3fc-df11431d5c8c@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <1b27c9a7-945f-7573-6137-a6e0637a8524@researchware.com>

On 10/4/2023 5:12 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
> We're just in the middle of testing, but we're seeing some issues 
> where the contents of a palette window are not rendering (just an 
> empty window) in a Livecode 9.6.10 standalone under macOS Sonoma.
>
> Anyone else see anything like this?

Okay, this was all a false alarm and a code error. Some contractor code 
was designed pre-Big Sur (and whatever version of LC fixed Big Sus 
reporting as version 10.16) and only looked at if the first number of 
the version was 10 to determine what if it was OSX. Sorry for the false 
suspicion that it may have been an LC on Sonoma problem.



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Oct  6 02:18:19 2023
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (ambassador at fourthworld.com)
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2023 06:18:19 +0000
Subject: AW: LC 9.6.10 standalone with Pallette issues under Sonoma
Message-ID: <2de0ff988d1a0fd4afc00a2d1ee36ebba4b58e77@fourthworld.com>

Paul Dupuis wrote:
>> We're just in the middle of testing, but we're seeing some issues
>> where the contents of a palette window are not rendering (just an
>> empty window) in a Livecode 9.6.10 standalone under macOS Sonoma.
>>
>> Anyone else see anything like this?
>
> Okay, this was all a false alarm and a code error. Some contractor
> code was designed pre-Big Sur (and whatever version of LC fixed Big
> Sus reporting as version 10.16) and only looked at if the first
> number of the version was 10 to determine what if it was OSX.

If it was to distinguish OSX from Classic you got a lot of life out of it, as Apple didn't change the major version number for decades. :)

But I'm curious: was it just an errant condition triggering a hide, or did it trigger a deeper bug in the engine which prevents LC from rendering the content region of the window?

--  
Richard Gaskin
Fourth World Systems


From dan at clearvisiontech.com  Fri Oct  6 18:44:22 2023
From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman)
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2023 22:44:22 +0000
Subject: I give up!  Mac App Installer Hell
In-Reply-To: <2de0ff988d1a0fd4afc00a2d1ee36ebba4b58e77@fourthworld.com>
References: <2de0ff988d1a0fd4afc00a2d1ee36ebba4b58e77@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <BYAPR12MB270922CCD99CAD3C3747322BB9C9A@BYAPR12MB2709.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>

If you have a very, very, VERY good understanding of creating Mac installer files to be posted to a website for user install, and to submit to the Mac App Store, I would like to pay you to walk me through all this - step by step.  I can’t take any of more this crap!  Certificates, Identifiers, Profiles, p12 Files, Keys (public and private), Provisioning, Installer keys… GRRRR!!!  I have an app that is tested, built and ready to go.  Just need to get it signed and uploaded to Apple.   If you understand all this, I would think a 20 minute Skype call should get it done.

FYI… This is an update to an existing app that is already in the app store.  (Don’t ask me how I got it done last time?!).  I don’t know why my brain can’t grasp this…. I have read Apple’s documentation, tried the (out of date) LC Lesions, watched videos, and gone through article after article.   At this point, I am not really interested in learning how to do this… I just want to get it done.

Save me!
-Dan

From alex at tweedly.net  Fri Oct  6 19:28:09 2023
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2023 00:28:09 +0100
Subject: I give up! Mac App Installer Hell
In-Reply-To: <BYAPR12MB270922CCD99CAD3C3747322BB9C9A@BYAPR12MB2709.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
References: <2de0ff988d1a0fd4afc00a2d1ee36ebba4b58e77@fourthworld.com>
 <BYAPR12MB270922CCD99CAD3C3747322BB9C9A@BYAPR12MB2709.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <7705f4ec-0261-4844-9bbb-dcefccecf844@tweedly.net>

I'm afraid I can't help - wish I could.

But I have to say that "... tried the (out of date) LC Lesions," must be 
the best auto-correct failure this week.

Alex.

On 06/10/2023 23:44, Dan Friedman via use-livecode wrote:
> If you have a very, very, VERY good understanding of creating Mac installer files to be posted to a website for user install, and to submit to the Mac App Store, I would like to pay you to walk me through all this - step by step.  I cant take any of more this crap!  Certificates, Identifiers, Profiles, p12 Files, Keys (public and private), Provisioning, Installer keys GRRRR!!!  I have an app that is tested, built and ready to go.  Just need to get it signed and uploaded to Apple.   If you understand all this, I would think a 20 minute Skype call should get it done.
>
> FYI This is an update to an existing app that is already in the app store.  (Dont ask me how I got it done last time?!).  I dont know why my brain cant grasp this. I have read Apples documentation, tried the (out of date) LC Lesions, watched videos, and gone through article after article.   At this point, I am not really interested in learning how to do this I just want to get it done.
>
> Save me!
> -Dan
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

From irog at mac.com  Fri Oct  6 20:14:50 2023
From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay)
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2023 17:14:50 -0700
Subject: I give up!  Mac App Installer Hell
In-Reply-To: <BYAPR12MB270922CCD99CAD3C3747322BB9C9A@BYAPR12MB2709.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
References: <2de0ff988d1a0fd4afc00a2d1ee36ebba4b58e77@fourthworld.com>
 <BYAPR12MB270922CCD99CAD3C3747322BB9C9A@BYAPR12MB2709.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <23D846D9-7F47-4641-AC74-56128D09F353@mac.com>

I’m totally with you, Dan, but even though I’ve done it before as well. I have no idea what I did. I’ve given up trying to develop apps for iOS and stopped my Apple Developer subscription out of this frustration.

Good luck! Somebody save us all!! Why can’t LC do this for us? Maybe ChatGPT??

Roger

> On Oct 6, 2023, at 3:44 PM, Dan Friedman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> If you have a very, very, VERY good understanding of creating Mac installer files to be posted to a website for user install, and to submit to the Mac App Store, I would like to pay you to walk me through all this - step by step.  I can’t take any of more this crap!  Certificates, Identifiers, Profiles, p12 Files, Keys (public and private), Provisioning, Installer keys… GRRRR!!!  I have an app that is tested, built and ready to go.  Just need to get it signed and uploaded to Apple.   If you understand all this, I would think a 20 minute Skype call should get it done.
> 
> FYI… This is an update to an existing app that is already in the app store.  (Don’t ask me how I got it done last time?!).  I don’t know why my brain can’t grasp this…. I have read Apple’s documentation, tried the (out of date) LC Lesions, watched videos, and gone through article after article.   At this point, I am not really interested in learning how to do this… I just want to get it done.
> 
> Save me!
> -Dan
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Mon Oct  9 11:37:55 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2023 16:37:55 +0100
Subject: I give up!  Mac App Installer Hell
In-Reply-To: <BYAPR12MB270922CCD99CAD3C3747322BB9C9A@BYAPR12MB2709.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
References: <2de0ff988d1a0fd4afc00a2d1ee36ebba4b58e77@fourthworld.com>
 <BYAPR12MB270922CCD99CAD3C3747322BB9C9A@BYAPR12MB2709.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <AC9FA3CC-08CB-4066-9623-54A418E6D650@gmail.com>

Hi Dan,

Which store are you intending to submit to: Mac App or iOS App? I’ve done it to iOS a half dozen times (although the last time was probably more than a year ago) I could probably scrounge something useful together. I’ve only created installer packages for the Mac App Store (using Kee Nethery’s excellent livecode lesson “Signing and Uploading Apps to the Mac App Store” but which are, as you point out, out of date (Matthias was very helpful in helping me sort which parts to ignore and which parts to pay attention to) but I’ve only gotten to the point of creating an installer package (which I’m using to install and test the app on several different Macs) so I’ve not yet submitted to the App Store. That is the next step on my list, although this week is a write-off in terms of time, and in fact this month might be a write-off. However, if you are having difficulty creating the installer package I would be happy to send you my crib notes which are pretty brief and easy to follow. 

Mark

> On 6 Oct 2023, at 11:44 pm, Dan Friedman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> If you have a very, very, VERY good understanding of creating Mac installer files to be posted to a website for user install, and to submit to the Mac App Store, I would like to pay you to walk me through all this - step by step.  I can’t take any of more this crap!  Certificates, Identifiers, Profiles, p12 Files, Keys (public and private), Provisioning, Installer keys… GRRRR!!!  I have an app that is tested, built and ready to go.  Just need to get it signed and uploaded to Apple.   If you understand all this, I would think a 20 minute Skype call should get it done.
> 
> FYI… This is an update to an existing app that is already in the app store.  (Don’t ask me how I got it done last time?!).  I don’t know why my brain can’t grasp this…. I have read Apple’s documentation, tried the (out of date) LC Lesions, watched videos, and gone through article after article.   At this point, I am not really interested in learning how to do this… I just want to get it done.
> 
> Save me!
> -Dan
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Mon Oct  9 15:49:56 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2023 15:49:56 -0400
Subject: I give up! Mac App Installer Hell
In-Reply-To: <AC9FA3CC-08CB-4066-9623-54A418E6D650@gmail.com>
References: <2de0ff988d1a0fd4afc00a2d1ee36ebba4b58e77@fourthworld.com>
 <BYAPR12MB270922CCD99CAD3C3747322BB9C9A@BYAPR12MB2709.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
 <AC9FA3CC-08CB-4066-9623-54A418E6D650@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycPNZNvDdiAJa+nUMP3MzbSZcZmA6pc9sr0qyBHGQ2KROw@mail.gmail.com>

ios is much more straightforward than it was, even a couple of years ago. i
would call it "nearly painless", now.
mac...sorry, no do.

On Mon, Oct 9, 2023 at 11:39 AM Mark Smith via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Dan,
>
> Which store are you intending to submit to: Mac App or iOS App? I’ve done
> it to iOS a half dozen times (although the last time was probably more than
> a year ago) I could probably scrounge something useful together. I’ve only
> created installer packages for the Mac App Store (using Kee Nethery’s
> excellent livecode lesson “Signing and Uploading Apps to the Mac App Store”
> but which are, as you point out, out of date (Matthias was very helpful in
> helping me sort which parts to ignore and which parts to pay attention to)
> but I’ve only gotten to the point of creating an installer package (which
> I’m using to install and test the app on several different Macs) so I’ve
> not yet submitted to the App Store. That is the next step on my list,
> although this week is a write-off in terms of time, and in fact this month
> might be a write-off. However, if you are having difficulty creating the
> installer package I would be happy to send you my crib notes which are
> pretty brief and easy to follow.
>
> Mark
>
> > On 6 Oct 2023, at 11:44 pm, Dan Friedman via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > If you have a very, very, VERY good understanding of creating Mac
> installer files to be posted to a website for user install, and to submit
> to the Mac App Store, I would like to pay you to walk me through all this -
> step by step.  I can’t take any of more this crap!  Certificates,
> Identifiers, Profiles, p12 Files, Keys (public and private), Provisioning,
> Installer keys… GRRRR!!!  I have an app that is tested, built and ready to
> go.  Just need to get it signed and uploaded to Apple.   If you understand
> all this, I would think a 20 minute Skype call should get it done.
> >
> > FYI… This is an update to an existing app that is already in the app
> store.  (Don’t ask me how I got it done last time?!).  I don’t know why my
> brain can’t grasp this…. I have read Apple’s documentation, tried the (out
> of date) LC Lesions, watched videos, and gone through article after
> article.   At this point, I am not really interested in learning how to do
> this… I just want to get it done.
> >
> > Save me!
> > -Dan
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Oct  9 17:46:33 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2023 16:46:33 -0500
Subject: Can't codesign Mac app
Message-ID: <7d213e86-a1bd-be2a-e809-27c563860bc8@hyperactivesw.com>

I'm using Matthias' mrSignNotarizeHelper V3.1 with xCode 13.2.1 on Mac OS 12.6.9 (Monterey) but 
get a script error. The same thing happens in both LC 9.6.9 and 9.6.10 dp 6.

So then I tried notarizationHelper V4 but keep getting "no identity found" errors. I've tried 
all the suggestions in the lesson. This is pretty critical for me right now, does anyone know 
what's wrong? It was last signed successfully in May of this year.

I need to codesign today...

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Oct  9 18:13:09 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2023 17:13:09 -0500
Subject: Can't codesign Mac app
In-Reply-To: <7d213e86-a1bd-be2a-e809-27c563860bc8@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <7d213e86-a1bd-be2a-e809-27c563860bc8@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <efabbbb6-d81d-84a3-6e46-e3201dc2520b@hyperactivesw.com>

On 10/9/23 4:46 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
> I'm using Matthias' mrSignNotarizeHelper V3.1 with xCode 13.2.1 on Mac OS 12.6.9 (Monterey) but 
> get a script error. The same thing happens in both LC 9.6.9 and 9.6.10 dp 6.
> 
> So then I tried notarizationHelper V4 but keep getting "no identity found" errors. I've tried 
> all the suggestions in the lesson. This is pretty critical for me right now, does anyone know 
> what's wrong? It was last signed successfully in May of this year.
> 
> I need to codesign today...
> 

Addendum: there were breakpoints in the script, which I thought at first were errors, in 
version 3.1. I removed them, and while it did not break into the debugger any more I am still 
getting "no identity found."

I have tried with and without a space after "Developer ID Application:". All the other fields 
in settings are as they were before when it worked. All certificates and the app password are 
correct, valid, and available in KeyChain Access.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From paul at researchware.com  Mon Oct  9 18:18:01 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2023 18:18:01 -0400
Subject: Can't codesign Mac app
In-Reply-To: <7d213e86-a1bd-be2a-e809-27c563860bc8@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <7d213e86-a1bd-be2a-e809-27c563860bc8@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <59f5ab50-ed55-0e6e-f05a-4503f70a984b@researchware.com>

On 10/9/2023 5:46 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
> I'm using Matthias' mrSignNotarizeHelper V3.1 with xCode 13.2.1 on Mac 
> OS 12.6.9 (Monterey) but get a script error. The same thing happens in 
> both LC 9.6.9 and 9.6.10 dp 6.
>
> So then I tried notarizationHelper V4 but keep getting "no identity 
> found" errors. I've tried all the suggestions in the lesson. This is 
> pretty critical for me right now, does anyone know what's wrong? It 
> was last signed successfully in May of this year.
>
> I need to codesign today...
>

I struggle with Apple's developer requirements, and I am not sure of my 
memory, but I think I recall that error suggest with the keychain is 
missing the cert or something else where the tool can't find the signing 
certificate.



From bleiler at buffalo.edu  Mon Oct  9 18:23:01 2023
From: bleiler at buffalo.edu (Timothy Bleiler)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2023 22:23:01 +0000
Subject: Can't codesign Mac app
In-Reply-To: <7d213e86-a1bd-be2a-e809-27c563860bc8@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <7d213e86-a1bd-be2a-e809-27c563860bc8@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <761047C9-9A2A-4005-9D6E-8F7039550BC1@buffalo.edu>

Jacqueline,

I had a similar problem recently.  There were a couple of problems I had to fix.  My error occurred during the notarization step after code signing.

One problem was that somehow my Mac was NOT a trusted device for the Apple ID I was using for development.
Verify that your Apple ID is trusted at appleid.apple.com<http://appleid.apple.com/> for your account under devices.  You must click on the specific device “button" to find out.  Just seeing it listed is not enough.

Despite the device not being trusted for the account, the Apple developer website let me think I’d created an app-specific password. I hadn’t succeed, but my lack of experience prevented me from realizing that the second step of the process is getting the actual password back from Apple and copying it down.  I didn’t get anything, no error message, so in my ignorance I thought the seed string I’d typed in WAS the password. So, I did NOT have an actual app-specific password to use in the NotaryTool commands or in the settings mrSignNotarizeHelper V4. This caused all commands dependent on an app-specific password to fail.

What solved it for me was to go to System Settings, sign out of the Apple account on the mac and sign back in again.
Then sign back in to appleid.apple.com<http://appleid.apple.com/>, verify that my Mac was a trusted device on my developer account and then create a NEW app-specific password at the Apple developer website.
This time I saw the second part when they send the actual password. You need to copy this down because there’s no way to recover it again later.

Once I had the new app-specific password and my Mac was a trusted device in my developer account, the notaryTool commands and mrSignNotarizeHelper worked without errors.


Tim Bleiler, Ph.D.
Instructional Designer, HSIT
University at Buffalo



On Oct 9, 2023, at 5:46 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

I'm using Matthias' mrSignNotarizeHelper V3.1 with xCode 13.2.1 on Mac OS 12.6.9 (Monterey) but get a script error. The same thing happens in both LC 9.6.9 and 9.6.10 dp 6.

So then I tried notarizationHelper V4 but keep getting "no identity found" errors. I've tried all the suggestions in the lesson. This is pretty critical for me right now, does anyone know what's wrong? It was last signed successfully in May of this year.

I need to codesign today...

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hyperactivesw.com%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cbleiler%40buffalo.edu%7C53ef9ca6c3554f11c41d08dbc9114fc7%7C96464a8af8ed40b199e25f6b50a20250%7C0%7C0%7C638324848455267470%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=SSTeiAkNbmWvOHZJ3Xqd8i%2BIzsKu4Imav9%2FJ%2BReqRac%3D&reserved=0

_______________________________________________
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Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
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From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Oct  9 20:27:30 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2023 19:27:30 -0500
Subject: Can't codesign Mac app
In-Reply-To: <efabbbb6-d81d-84a3-6e46-e3201dc2520b@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <7d213e86-a1bd-be2a-e809-27c563860bc8@hyperactivesw.com>
 <efabbbb6-d81d-84a3-6e46-e3201dc2520b@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <ecd8dc74-b08b-85cb-7183-d1a0d69dd41b@hyperactivesw.com>

On 10/9/23 5:13 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
> On 10/9/23 4:46 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
>> I'm using Matthias' mrSignNotarizeHelper V3.1 with xCode 13.2.1 on Mac OS 12.6.9 (Monterey) 
>> but get a script error. The same thing happens in both LC 9.6.9 and 9.6.10 dp 6.
>>
>> So then I tried notarizationHelper V4 but keep getting "no identity found" errors. I've tried 
>> all the suggestions in the lesson. This is pretty critical for me right now, does anyone know 
>> what's wrong? It was last signed successfully in May of this year.
>>
>> I need to codesign today...
>>
> 
> Addendum: there were breakpoints in the script, which I thought at first were errors, in 
> version 3.1. I removed them, and while it did not break into the debugger any more I am still 
> getting "no identity found."
> 
> I have tried with and without a space after "Developer ID Application:". All the other fields 
> in settings are as they were before when it worked. All certificates and the app password are 
> correct, valid, and available in KeyChain Access.
> 

Thanks to both Timothy and Paul for suggestions. My client was able to sign/notarize on her 
machine using Matthias' tool. She's on Sonoma. We see the notarization and stapling logs and 
the result was successful. But the app will not open on the three Macs we tested it on (though 
it does open on my Montery machine; it fails on Ventura and Sonoma.) I built with both LC 
9.6.10 and LC 10 dp 6 and while both appeared to be notarized (on her machine) a terminal 
command says it isn't:

    spctl -a -t exec -vvv /Path/To/Notarised.app:: rejected

We are at a loss. @Mattias: do we need an updated mrSignNotarizeHelper? Or is something else wrong?

Our next step is to try running the correct terminal commands manually. Does anyone know where 
I can find those? I think I read that the lesson needs revision?



-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Oct  9 20:56:24 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2023 19:56:24 -0500
Subject: Can't codesign Mac app
In-Reply-To: <66D2DA12-EA38-4E3C-BC5C-222C13BFE087@mac.com>
References: <7d213e86-a1bd-be2a-e809-27c563860bc8@hyperactivesw.com>
 <efabbbb6-d81d-84a3-6e46-e3201dc2520b@hyperactivesw.com>
 <ecd8dc74-b08b-85cb-7183-d1a0d69dd41b@hyperactivesw.com>
 <66D2DA12-EA38-4E3C-BC5C-222C13BFE087@mac.com>
Message-ID: <1fc4a6c7-0c60-cc70-a14b-8bd9a4ff48ff@hyperactivesw.com>

On 10/9/23 7:33 PM, Mark Clark wrote:
> Is Gatekeeper an issue? Using dynamic libs? If your end user/tester could open console and send 
> you the errors it might help point you in the right direction.
> 
> 
> 
> Successfully notarized app rejecte… | Apple Developer Forums 
> <https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/128038>
> developer.apple.com <https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/128038>
> 	favicon.ico <https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/128038>
> 
> <https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/128038>

I think that may be the problem, we're fairly convinced right now that Gatekeeper is the issue. 
There is a single dylib in the app: revsecurity.dylib. I'm not sure what to do about it though.

I'll try to see what console says. But do we need revsecurity? Can I omit it somehow and see 
how that goes?

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From bleiler at buffalo.edu  Mon Oct  9 21:10:08 2023
From: bleiler at buffalo.edu (Timothy Bleiler)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 01:10:08 +0000
Subject: Can't codesign Mac app
In-Reply-To: <ecd8dc74-b08b-85cb-7183-d1a0d69dd41b@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <7d213e86-a1bd-be2a-e809-27c563860bc8@hyperactivesw.com>
 <efabbbb6-d81d-84a3-6e46-e3201dc2520b@hyperactivesw.com>
 <ecd8dc74-b08b-85cb-7183-d1a0d69dd41b@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <849EDABE-ADF0-4A24-81F9-B87E1C1CE139@buffalo.edu>

I think this is the most recent lesson listing the terminal commands for using NotaryTool instead of altool.
These worked when I was using the last version of Ventura and Xcode 14.3.1.  I haven’t tried Sonoma.

<https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1653720-code-signing-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore-with-xcode-13-and-up>
Code signing and notarizing your LC standalone for distribution outside the Mac Appstore with Xcode 13 and up | How To - Step-By-Step Guides To Tasks In LiveCode | LiveCode Lessons<https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1653720-code-signing-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore-with-xcode-13-and-up>
lessons.livecode.com<https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1653720-code-signing-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore-with-xcode-13-and-up>
[X]<https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1653720-code-signing-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore-with-xcode-13-and-up>


On Oct 9, 2023, at 8:27 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

On 10/9/23 5:13 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
On 10/9/23 4:46 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
I'm using Matthias' mrSignNotarizeHelper V3.1 with xCode 13.2.1 on Mac OS 12.6.9 (Monterey) but get a script error. The same thing happens in both LC 9.6.9 and 9.6.10 dp 6.

So then I tried notarizationHelper V4 but keep getting "no identity found" errors. I've tried all the suggestions in the lesson. This is pretty critical for me right now, does anyone know what's wrong? It was last signed successfully in May of this year.

I need to codesign today...

Addendum: there were breakpoints in the script, which I thought at first were errors, in version 3.1. I removed them, and while it did not break into the debugger any more I am still getting "no identity found."
I have tried with and without a space after "Developer ID Application:". All the other fields in settings are as they were before when it worked. All certificates and the app password are correct, valid, and available in KeyChain Access.

Thanks to both Timothy and Paul for suggestions. My client was able to sign/notarize on her machine using Matthias' tool. She's on Sonoma. We see the notarization and stapling logs and the result was successful. But the app will not open on the three Macs we tested it on (though it does open on my Montery machine; it fails on Ventura and Sonoma.) I built with both LC 9.6.10 and LC 10 dp 6 and while both appeared to be notarized (on her machine) a terminal command says it isn't:

  spctl -a -t exec -vvv /Path/To/Notarised.app:: rejected

We are at a loss. @Mattias: do we need an updated mrSignNotarizeHelper? Or is something else wrong?

Our next step is to try running the correct terminal commands manually. Does anyone know where I can find those? I think I read that the lesson needs revision?



--
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hyperactivesw.com%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cbleiler%40buffalo.edu%7C0155f2f48eef41eaec7008dbc927cbad%7C96464a8af8ed40b199e25f6b50a20250%7C0%7C0%7C638324945008580783%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=xI5%2F18BYMNicJ8%2FTR%2B8Ul%2FP2QYWQAKm%2Bh%2FnsJlwp9uY%3D&reserved=0


_______________________________________________
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Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.runrev.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fuse-livecode&data=05%7C01%7Cbleiler%40buffalo.edu%7C0155f2f48eef41eaec7008dbc927cbad%7C96464a8af8ed40b199e25f6b50a20250%7C0%7C0%7C638324945008580783%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=5ywkZ%2BNNHrYzolj7D6IvfP0ievhugaZCohAe634geJU%3D&reserved=0


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Oct  9 21:28:07 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2023 20:28:07 -0500
Subject: Can't codesign Mac app
In-Reply-To: <849EDABE-ADF0-4A24-81F9-B87E1C1CE139@buffalo.edu>
References: <7d213e86-a1bd-be2a-e809-27c563860bc8@hyperactivesw.com>
 <efabbbb6-d81d-84a3-6e46-e3201dc2520b@hyperactivesw.com>
 <ecd8dc74-b08b-85cb-7183-d1a0d69dd41b@hyperactivesw.com>
 <849EDABE-ADF0-4A24-81F9-B87E1C1CE139@buffalo.edu>
Message-ID: <4aa5f3d5-4119-86b7-318f-0e8fb8b0d6cd@hyperactivesw.com>

Thank you, I'll try that. Meanwhile, I ran this on a supposedly notarized/signed app:

   spctl --assess --raw --verbose <appPath>

which was rejected. Does his mean anything to anyone:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<!DOCTYPE plist PUBLIC "-//Apple//DTD PLIST 1.0//EN" 
"http://www.apple.com/DTDs/PropertyList-1.0.dtd">
<plist version="1.0">
<dict>
	<key>assessment:authority</key>
	<dict>
		<key>assessment:authority:flags</key>
		<integer>0</integer>
	</dict>
	<key>assessment:remote</key>
	<true/>
	<key>assessment:verdict</key>
	<false/>
</dict>
</plist>


On 10/9/23 8:10 PM, Timothy Bleiler via use-livecode wrote:
> I think this is the most recent lesson listing the terminal commands for using NotaryTool instead of altool.
> These worked when I was using the last version of Ventura and Xcode 14.3.1.  I haven’t tried Sonoma.
> 
> <https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1653720-code-signing-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore-with-xcode-13-and-up>
> Code signing and notarizing your LC standalone for distribution outside the Mac Appstore with Xcode 13 and up | How To - Step-By-Step Guides To Tasks In LiveCode | LiveCode Lessons<https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1653720-code-signing-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore-with-xcode-13-and-up>
> lessons.livecode.com<https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1653720-code-signing-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore-with-xcode-13-and-up>
> [X]<https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1653720-code-signing-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore-with-xcode-13-and-up>

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From merakosp at gmail.com  Tue Oct 10 02:07:27 2023
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 09:07:27 +0300
Subject: Can't codesign Mac app
In-Reply-To: <4aa5f3d5-4119-86b7-318f-0e8fb8b0d6cd@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <7d213e86-a1bd-be2a-e809-27c563860bc8@hyperactivesw.com>
 <efabbbb6-d81d-84a3-6e46-e3201dc2520b@hyperactivesw.com>
 <ecd8dc74-b08b-85cb-7183-d1a0d69dd41b@hyperactivesw.com>
 <849EDABE-ADF0-4A24-81F9-B87E1C1CE139@buffalo.edu>
 <4aa5f3d5-4119-86b7-318f-0e8fb8b0d6cd@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq9PV3qWeT41kfY9PEv_ewniO5zT=xL+xu4saEfqmerQnQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Jacque,

Have you included any entitlements when codesigning the app?

I suggest including all of these:

https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1293515-entitlements-for-signed-and-notarized-apps

There is an option to do that in the settings (iirc) in Matthias'
notarization tool.

Kind regards,
Panos

On Tue, 10 Oct 2023, 04:29 J. Landman Gay via use-livecode, <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Thank you, I'll try that. Meanwhile, I ran this on a supposedly
> notarized/signed app:
>
>    spctl --assess --raw --verbose <appPath>
>
> which was rejected. Does his mean anything to anyone:
>
> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
> <!DOCTYPE plist PUBLIC "-//Apple//DTD PLIST 1.0//EN"
> "http://www.apple.com/DTDs/PropertyList-1.0.dtd">
> <plist version="1.0">
> <dict>
>         <key>assessment:authority</key>
>         <dict>
>                 <key>assessment:authority:flags</key>
>                 <integer>0</integer>
>         </dict>
>         <key>assessment:remote</key>
>         <true/>
>         <key>assessment:verdict</key>
>         <false/>
> </dict>
> </plist>
>
>
> On 10/9/23 8:10 PM, Timothy Bleiler via use-livecode wrote:
> > I think this is the most recent lesson listing the terminal commands for
> using NotaryTool instead of altool.
> > These worked when I was using the last version of Ventura and Xcode
> 14.3.1.  I haven’t tried Sonoma.
> >
> > <
> https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1653720-code-signing-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore-with-xcode-13-and-up
> >
> > Code signing and notarizing your LC standalone for distribution outside
> the Mac Appstore with Xcode 13 and up | How To - Step-By-Step Guides To
> Tasks In LiveCode | LiveCode Lessons<
> https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1653720-code-signing-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore-with-xcode-13-and-up
> >
> > lessons.livecode.com<
> https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1653720-code-signing-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore-with-xcode-13-and-up
> >
> > [X]<
> https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1653720-code-signing-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore-with-xcode-13-and-up
> >
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Tue Oct 10 03:19:49 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 09:19:49 +0200
Subject: Can't codesign Mac app
In-Reply-To: <4aa5f3d5-4119-86b7-318f-0e8fb8b0d6cd@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <7d213e86-a1bd-be2a-e809-27c563860bc8@hyperactivesw.com>
 <efabbbb6-d81d-84a3-6e46-e3201dc2520b@hyperactivesw.com>
 <ecd8dc74-b08b-85cb-7183-d1a0d69dd41b@hyperactivesw.com>
 <849EDABE-ADF0-4A24-81F9-B87E1C1CE139@buffalo.edu>
 <4aa5f3d5-4119-86b7-318f-0e8fb8b0d6cd@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <FA243C78-0627-487F-8A99-2C43CAED530B@m-r-d.de>

Hello Jacque,

didn't you get the reason back why the app is rejected when you run 'spctl --assess --raw --verbose <appPath>' ?

I've tested here now with a simple LC app which opens an https url. The https call makes sure, that revsecurity is included in the app bundle.
I've code signed and notarized that standalone with my Helper stack V4 on Ventura and tested it then on macOS Sonoma.
The app can be executed on Sonoma and    spctl --assess --raw --verbose <appPath>
returns the following on Sonoma.

/Users/matthias/Downloads/jacque/Untitled 1/Untitled 1.app: accepted
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<!DOCTYPE plist PUBLIC "-//Apple//DTD PLIST 1.0//EN" "http://www.apple.com/DTDs/PropertyList-1.0.dtd">
<plist version="1.0">
<dict>
	<key>assessment:authority</key>
	<dict>
		<key>assessment:authority:flags</key>
		<integer>2</integer>
		<key>assessment:authority:row</key>
		<integer>6</integer>
		<key>assessment:authority:source</key>
		<string>Developer ID</string>
	</dict>
	<key>assessment:remote</key>
	<true/>
	<key>assessment:verdict</key>
	<true/>
</dict>

I am not sure why your app i rejected. If you want to, i could test your app with spctl.... here on Sonoma.

Did you by any chance add additonal data to the standalone after it was built?

Or are you using any additional code which might be not in the right place in the bundle?
There is an archive topic about this here
https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/114943

I am really sorry that i am of no real help.

Regards

Matthias




> Am 10.10.2023 um 03:28 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Thank you, I'll try that. Meanwhile, I ran this on a supposedly notarized/signed app:
> 
>  spctl --assess --raw --verbose <appPath>
> 
> which was rejected. Does his mean anything to anyone:
> 
> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
> <!DOCTYPE plist PUBLIC "-//Apple//DTD PLIST 1.0//EN" "http://www.apple.com/DTDs/PropertyList-1.0.dtd">
> <plist version="1.0">
> <dict>
> 	<key>assessment:authority</key>
> 	<dict>
> 		<key>assessment:authority:flags</key>
> 		<integer>0</integer>
> 	</dict>
> 	<key>assessment:remote</key>
> 	<true/>
> 	<key>assessment:verdict</key>
> 	<false/>
> </dict>
> </plist>
> 
> 
> On 10/9/23 8:10 PM, Timothy Bleiler via use-livecode wrote:
>> I think this is the most recent lesson listing the terminal commands for using NotaryTool instead of altool.
>> These worked when I was using the last version of Ventura and Xcode 14.3.1.  I haven’t tried Sonoma.
>> <https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1653720-code-signing-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore-with-xcode-13-and-up>
>> Code signing and notarizing your LC standalone for distribution outside the Mac Appstore with Xcode 13 and up | How To - Step-By-Step Guides To Tasks In LiveCode | LiveCode Lessons<https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1653720-code-signing-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore-with-xcode-13-and-up>
>> lessons.livecode.com<https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1653720-code-signing-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore-with-xcode-13-and-up>
>> [X]<https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1653720-code-signing-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore-with-xcode-13-and-up>
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From paul at researchware.com  Tue Oct 10 06:39:28 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 06:39:28 -0400
Subject: Window code signing certificate source recommendations
Message-ID: <bfd548c9-22c9-bae3-d178-5bc3cfc49553@researchware.com>

To any with a recommendation:

I have been getting my Windows Code Signing Certificates from Comodo. I 
have been able to get certs in file formats like .pfx or .p12 that 
allows me to code sign using a single command line with the password as 
part of the command. This lets me script code signing as part of the "on 
standaloneSaved" message using the "shell()" function, so the code 
signing is part of saving the Standalone.

My current Windows cert expires in November, so I click the renew link 
and renewed. The new Cert came on a "USB token" - a small USB memory 
stick that is specially encoded. To sign, I HAVE to use  a desktop GUI 
app called SafeNet Authentication Client Tools. After a bunch of back 
and forth with Sertgo - Comodo's fullfillment branch - I got the 
following message:

-----------------

We apologize for the delayed response and any inconvenience it may have 
caused. We understand that you need a Code Signing certificate in PFX 
format to automate the signing process. As per the CA/B forum's new 
regulation, the private key should be generated, stored, and used on a 
suitable FIPS-compliant hardware token. This change from the CA/B Forum 
aims to improve security and help reduce the risk of compromise.

The Code Signing token is a hardware device with a certificate/key 
inbuilt and they cannot create/export PFX files. Since the private key 
is stored on the hardware token, for security it cannot be copied or 
exported. The concept of the token-based code signing certificate is to 
plug the USB into the system where you want to sign the software. We 
appreciate your understanding in this matter.

-----------------

So, apparently Comodo/Sertgo does NOT issue ANY cert that can be used in 
a sign command line PER the CA/B Forums (whatever they are).


Does anyone know if this is an industry wide change? Or can anyone 
recommend a Window Code Signing Certificate provider that can provide a 
cert in a format that support a command line signing, such as:

"C:\Program Files (x86)\Windows Kits\10\App Certification 
Kit\signtool.exe" sign /fd certHash /debug /f 
"C:\Users\Paul\Desktop\Code Signing\RWCodeSigningCert4.pfx" /t 
http://timestamp.comodoca.com/authenticode /v /p <PASSWORD> 
"<PATH_TO_STANDALONE>"


I really do not want to return to have to manually signing standalones!



From brian at milby7.com  Tue Oct 10 08:38:42 2023
From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 08:38:42 -0400
Subject: Window code signing certificate source recommendations
In-Reply-To: <bfd548c9-22c9-bae3-d178-5bc3cfc49553@researchware.com>
References: <bfd548c9-22c9-bae3-d178-5bc3cfc49553@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <43513E10-F2D5-4C81-8EAA-BA41F78B0FC7@milby7.com>

While not directly applicable, you may be able script it similar to using a CAC.

DOD uses Smart Cards for authentication and you can have command line tools use the card for authentication (runas /smartcard program).  What happens is that you get a pop up from the system to choose cert and enter PIN.  A similar process may be possible.

Brian Milby
brian at milby7.com

> On Oct 10, 2023, at 6:40 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> To any with a recommendation:
> 
> I have been getting my Windows Code Signing Certificates from Comodo. I have been able to get certs in file formats like .pfx or .p12 that allows me to code sign using a single command line with the password as part of the command. This lets me script code signing as part of the "on standaloneSaved" message using the "shell()" function, so the code signing is part of saving the Standalone.
> 
> My current Windows cert expires in November, so I click the renew link and renewed. The new Cert came on a "USB token" - a small USB memory stick that is specially encoded. To sign, I HAVE to use  a desktop GUI app called SafeNet Authentication Client Tools. After a bunch of back and forth with Sertgo - Comodo's fullfillment branch - I got the following message:
> 
> -----------------
> 
> We apologize for the delayed response and any inconvenience it may have caused. We understand that you need a Code Signing certificate in PFX format to automate the signing process. As per the CA/B forum's new regulation, the private key should be generated, stored, and used on a suitable FIPS-compliant hardware token. This change from the CA/B Forum aims to improve security and help reduce the risk of compromise.
> 
> The Code Signing token is a hardware device with a certificate/key inbuilt and they cannot create/export PFX files. Since the private key is stored on the hardware token, for security it cannot be copied or exported. The concept of the token-based code signing certificate is to plug the USB into the system where you want to sign the software. We appreciate your understanding in this matter.
> 
> -----------------
> 
> So, apparently Comodo/Sertgo does NOT issue ANY cert that can be used in a sign command line PER the CA/B Forums (whatever they are).
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if this is an industry wide change? Or can anyone recommend a Window Code Signing Certificate provider that can provide a cert in a format that support a command line signing, such as:
> 
> "C:\Program Files (x86)\Windows Kits\10\App Certification Kit\signtool.exe" sign /fd certHash /debug /f "C:\Users\Paul\Desktop\Code Signing\RWCodeSigningCert4.pfx" /t http://timestamp.comodoca.com/authenticode /v /p <PASSWORD> "<PATH_TO_STANDALONE>"
> 
> 
> I really do not want to return to have to manually signing standalones!
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Tue Oct 10 08:53:37 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 14:53:37 +0200
Subject: Window code signing certificate source recommendations
In-Reply-To: <bfd548c9-22c9-bae3-d178-5bc3cfc49553@researchware.com>
References: <bfd548c9-22c9-bae3-d178-5bc3cfc49553@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <ECCDEE61-0CDF-4411-B0B5-65E862D2E49F@m-r-d.de>

Hello Paul,

unfortunately this is the "new" standard. Since 1st June 2023 private keys has to be stored on a Token.
https://www.sslpoint.com/new-private-key-storage-requirement-for-standard-code-signing-certificates/

There is no way anymore to export a certificate for example to .pfx.
And much more of a pain, it is not possible anymore to code sign Windows app under macOS or at least i was not able to so so far.

I have a "cloud" certificate from Certum which i purchased from SSL Point (https://www.sslpoint.com <https://www.sslpoint.com/>)

With this type of certificate the private key is not stored on a USB token. This "cloud" certifcate  works similar to a usb token. I also have to install some software. This software allow me to login to the "cloud" and after successful login i can use that certificate
with Microsoft's signtool and JARsigner.
https://www.files.certum.eu/documents/manual_en/Code-Signing-signing-the-code-using-tools-like-Singtool-and-Jarsigner_v2.3.pdf

So to automate your signing, you just have to keep a Windows PC running and make sure that you are logged in to the "Cloud". As long as the software is logged in you have access to the certificate.
I don't know if this is also the case with the USB Token. Could not test it, because i do not have a usb token. ;)


Regards,
Matthias




> Am 10.10.2023 um 12:39 schrieb Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> To any with a recommendation:
> 
> I have been getting my Windows Code Signing Certificates from Comodo. I have been able to get certs in file formats like .pfx or .p12 that allows me to code sign using a single command line with the password as part of the command. This lets me script code signing as part of the "on standaloneSaved" message using the "shell()" function, so the code signing is part of saving the Standalone.
> 
> My current Windows cert expires in November, so I click the renew link and renewed. The new Cert came on a "USB token" - a small USB memory stick that is specially encoded. To sign, I HAVE to use  a desktop GUI app called SafeNet Authentication Client Tools. After a bunch of back and forth with Sertgo - Comodo's fullfillment branch - I got the following message:
> 
> -----------------
> 
> We apologize for the delayed response and any inconvenience it may have caused. We understand that you need a Code Signing certificate in PFX format to automate the signing process. As per the CA/B forum's new regulation, the private key should be generated, stored, and used on a suitable FIPS-compliant hardware token. This change from the CA/B Forum aims to improve security and help reduce the risk of compromise.
> 
> The Code Signing token is a hardware device with a certificate/key inbuilt and they cannot create/export PFX files. Since the private key is stored on the hardware token, for security it cannot be copied or exported. The concept of the token-based code signing certificate is to plug the USB into the system where you want to sign the software. We appreciate your understanding in this matter.
> 
> -----------------
> 
> So, apparently Comodo/Sertgo does NOT issue ANY cert that can be used in a sign command line PER the CA/B Forums (whatever they are).
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if this is an industry wide change? Or can anyone recommend a Window Code Signing Certificate provider that can provide a cert in a format that support a command line signing, such as:
> 
> "C:\Program Files (x86)\Windows Kits\10\App Certification Kit\signtool.exe" sign /fd certHash /debug /f "C:\Users\Paul\Desktop\Code Signing\RWCodeSigningCert4.pfx" /t http://timestamp.comodoca.com/authenticode /v /p <PASSWORD> "<PATH_TO_STANDALONE>"
> 
> 
> I really do not want to return to have to manually signing standalones!
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From paul at researchware.com  Tue Oct 10 08:59:48 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 08:59:48 -0400
Subject: Window code signing certificate source recommendations
In-Reply-To: <43513E10-F2D5-4C81-8EAA-BA41F78B0FC7@milby7.com>
References: <bfd548c9-22c9-bae3-d178-5bc3cfc49553@researchware.com>
 <43513E10-F2D5-4C81-8EAA-BA41F78B0FC7@milby7.com>
Message-ID: <1b33544d-7c1d-6c07-f6d7-6f46ce2cd77c@researchware.com>

On 10/10/2023 8:38 AM, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote:
> While not directly applicable, you may be able script it similar to using a CAC.
>
> DOD uses Smart Cards for authentication and you can have command line tools use the card for authentication (runas /smartcard program).  What happens is that you get a pop up from the system to choose cert and enter PIN.  A similar process may be possible.
>
> Brian Milby
> brian at milby7.com
>

Thanks Brian,

The USB token from Comodo/Sertigo is effectively the same process. You 
still use signtool in a command line to sign, but then the Safenet 
Authentication Client pops up a dialog to have you manually enter the 
USB token password/PIN to grant access to the cert.

This is a change from the previous process that required no manual 
intervention. However, perhaps it is an industry wide change and 
something I will just have to live with.Sigh.



From paul at researchware.com  Tue Oct 10 09:05:17 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 09:05:17 -0400
Subject: Window code signing certificate source recommendations
In-Reply-To: <ECCDEE61-0CDF-4411-B0B5-65E862D2E49F@m-r-d.de>
References: <bfd548c9-22c9-bae3-d178-5bc3cfc49553@researchware.com>
 <ECCDEE61-0CDF-4411-B0B5-65E862D2E49F@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <0d0feb9a-c216-c3cb-0a7a-9972fb723048@researchware.com>

On 10/10/2023 8:53 AM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote:
> Hello Paul,
>
> unfortunately this is the "new" standard. Since 1st June 2023 private keys has to be stored on a Token.
> https://www.sslpoint.com/new-private-key-storage-requirement-for-standard-code-signing-certificates/
>
> There is no way anymore to export a certificate for example to .pfx.
> And much more of a pain, it is not possible anymore to code sign Windows app under macOS or at least i was not able to so so far.
>
> I have a "cloud" certificate from Certum which i purchased from SSL Point (https://www.sslpoint.com <https://www.sslpoint.com/>)
>
> With this type of certificate the private key is not stored on a USB token. This "cloud" certifcate  works similar to a usb token. I also have to install some software. This software allow me to login to the "cloud" and after successful login i can use that certificate
> with Microsoft's signtool and JARsigner.
> https://www.files.certum.eu/documents/manual_en/Code-Signing-signing-the-code-using-tools-like-Singtool-and-Jarsigner_v2.3.pdf
>
> So to automate your signing, you just have to keep a Windows PC running and make sure that you are logged in to the "Cloud". As long as the software is logged in you have access to the certificate.
> I don't know if this is also the case with the USB Token. Could not test it, because i do not have a usb token. ;)
>
>
> Regards,
> Matthias

First, thank you for the very informative reply (with links!)

Second, this "new" standard STINKS!

The cloud cert sound interesting, but we recently renewed out macOS cert 
and now we've just renewed our Windows cert, so, short of trying to get 
money back from Comodo and switching to the "cloud", I guess I am stuck 
with the "new" crappy standard.

I do not see how large software companies that automate build, signing, 
and even QA testing can accept this change. But they must of the 
suppliers of certs would not go this route for loss of income.



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Tue Oct 10 09:56:28 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 15:56:28 +0200
Subject: Window code signing certificate source recommendations
In-Reply-To: <0d0feb9a-c216-c3cb-0a7a-9972fb723048@researchware.com>
References: <bfd548c9-22c9-bae3-d178-5bc3cfc49553@researchware.com>
 <ECCDEE61-0CDF-4411-B0B5-65E862D2E49F@m-r-d.de>
 <0d0feb9a-c216-c3cb-0a7a-9972fb723048@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <8A49D398-80A5-4C6F-BC80-3852A5614588@m-r-d.de>

Paul,

just googled a little bit...

If you have a safenet USB Token, than there seems to be a way to disable the password pop up.

https://www.finalbuilder.com/resources/blogs/code-signing-with-usb-tokens

> Am 10.10.2023 um 15:05 schrieb Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> On 10/10/2023 8:53 AM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hello Paul,
>> 
>> unfortunately this is the "new" standard. Since 1st June 2023 private keys has to be stored on a Token.
>> https://www.sslpoint.com/new-private-key-storage-requirement-for-standard-code-signing-certificates/
>> 
>> There is no way anymore to export a certificate for example to .pfx.
>> And much more of a pain, it is not possible anymore to code sign Windows app under macOS or at least i was not able to so so far.
>> 
>> I have a "cloud" certificate from Certum which i purchased from SSL Point (https://www.sslpoint.com <https://www.sslpoint.com/>)
>> 
>> With this type of certificate the private key is not stored on a USB token. This "cloud" certifcate  works similar to a usb token. I also have to install some software. This software allow me to login to the "cloud" and after successful login i can use that certificate
>> with Microsoft's signtool and JARsigner.
>> https://www.files.certum.eu/documents/manual_en/Code-Signing-signing-the-code-using-tools-like-Singtool-and-Jarsigner_v2.3.pdf
>> 
>> So to automate your signing, you just have to keep a Windows PC running and make sure that you are logged in to the "Cloud". As long as the software is logged in you have access to the certificate.
>> I don't know if this is also the case with the USB Token. Could not test it, because i do not have a usb token. ;)
>> 
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Matthias
> 
> First, thank you for the very informative reply (with links!)
> 
> Second, this "new" standard STINKS!
> 
> The cloud cert sound interesting, but we recently renewed out macOS cert and now we've just renewed our Windows cert, so, short of trying to get money back from Comodo and switching to the "cloud", I guess I am stuck with the "new" crappy standard.
> 
> I do not see how large software companies that automate build, signing, and even QA testing can accept this change. But they must of the suppliers of certs would not go this route for loss of income.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From paul at researchware.com  Tue Oct 10 11:43:29 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 11:43:29 -0400
Subject: Another (macOS) Code signing guidance question...
Message-ID: <478a7f56-e24e-fb8b-a29e-872572ff150a@researchware.com>

I am looking at https://developer.apple.com/support/xcode

To meet Apple's Nov 1 deadline of switch from the old Notarization tool 
(which I current use on Mojave) to the new one, I need to get set up on 
macOS 14 Sonoma.

To me, from the Apple page, it look like I need xcode 15 (deployment 
targets of macOS 10.13-14) BUT I am concerned that the Livecode lesson 
by Matthias and his mrSignNotarizeHelper tool recommend Xcode 13 or 14 
(I don't see Xcode 15 mentioned). I may have (or probably did) miss 
something!

The Apple Developer page suggest that Xcode 14.3.1 has a minim OS 
requirement of macOS Ventura 13 which suggest it can run on macOS 14 Sonoma?

I only have a single macBook Air with Sonoma available to get sup up for 
the new notarization method. I really don't want to try to downgrade the 
macOS (I don't even know how to do that).




From martyknappster at gmail.com  Tue Oct 10 11:57:38 2023
From: martyknappster at gmail.com (Marty Knapp)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 08:57:38 -0700
Subject: Another (macOS) Code signing guidance question...
In-Reply-To: <478a7f56-e24e-fb8b-a29e-872572ff150a@researchware.com>
References: <478a7f56-e24e-fb8b-a29e-872572ff150a@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <37AB0D23-F3FA-4886-9020-8BA284122BD6@gmail.com>

I’ve been using AppWrapper for a few years and just deployed an upgrade for Sonoma compatibility. I don’t use the app store - just sell from my own web site.

It’s a paid app but has a free trial:
https://ohanaware.com/appwrapper/


---
Marty Knapp

> On Oct 10, 2023, at 8:43 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I am looking at https://developer.apple.com/support/xcode
> 
> To meet Apple's Nov 1 deadline of switch from the old Notarization tool (which I current use on Mojave) to the new one, I need to get set up on macOS 14 Sonoma.
> 
> To me, from the Apple page, it look like I need xcode 15 (deployment targets of macOS 10.13-14) BUT I am concerned that the Livecode lesson by Matthias and his mrSignNotarizeHelper tool recommend Xcode 13 or 14 (I don't see Xcode 15 mentioned). I may have (or probably did) miss something!
> 
> The Apple Developer page suggest that Xcode 14.3.1 has a minim OS requirement of macOS Ventura 13 which suggest it can run on macOS 14 Sonoma?
> 
> I only have a single macBook Air with Sonoma available to get sup up for the new notarization method. I really don't want to try to downgrade the macOS (I don't even know how to do that).
> 



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Tue Oct 10 11:57:59 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 15:57:59 +0000
Subject: Another (macOS) Code signing guidance question...
In-Reply-To: <478a7f56-e24e-fb8b-a29e-872572ff150a@researchware.com>
References: <478a7f56-e24e-fb8b-a29e-872572ff150a@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <93EF02D3-6741-4F25-B2E0-BE4337540055@iotecdigital.com>

There’s this: 
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204904


I’m fairly certain that it will install the most recent version of MacOS however. To install the original MacOS, there’s this:
https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/erase-and-reinstall-macos-mh27903/mac

Bob S


> On Oct 10, 2023, at 8:43 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I only have a single macBook Air with Sonoma available to get sup up for the new notarization method. I really don't want to try to downgrade the macOS (I don't even know how to do that).


From paul at researchware.com  Tue Oct 10 12:02:53 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 12:02:53 -0400
Subject: Another (macOS) Code signing guidance question...
In-Reply-To: <478a7f56-e24e-fb8b-a29e-872572ff150a@researchware.com>
References: <478a7f56-e24e-fb8b-a29e-872572ff150a@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <28948322-89d2-559a-1e08-4a9b7fa555a3@researchware.com>

On 10/10/2023 11:43 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
> I am looking at https://developer.apple.com/support/xcode
>
> To meet Apple's Nov 1 deadline of switch from the old Notarization 
> tool (which I current use on Mojave) to the new one, I need to get set 
> up on macOS 14 Sonoma.
>
> To me, from the Apple page, it look like I need xcode 15 (deployment 
> targets of macOS 10.13-14) BUT I am concerned that the Livecode lesson 
> by Matthias and his mrSignNotarizeHelper tool recommend Xcode 13 or 14 
> (I don't see Xcode 15 mentioned). I may have (or probably did) miss 
> something!
>
> The Apple Developer page suggest that Xcode 14.3.1 has a minim OS 
> requirement of macOS Ventura 13 which suggest it can run on macOS 14 
> Sonoma?
>
> I only have a single macBook Air with Sonoma available to get sup up 
> for the new notarization method. I really don't want to try to 
> downgrade the macOS (I don't even know how to do that).
>

Ok, I may have answered one of my questions. I downloaded the XCode 
14.3.1 Command Line Tools from https://developer.apple.com/download/all/ 
and tried to install them on Sonoma and the installer will not let me 
stating the "OS is too new". I guess Xcode 15 is the minimum for Sonoma.

Now I will try the "Command Line Tools for Xcode 15" from the same Apple 
download page.



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Oct 10 12:36:05 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 11:36:05 -0500
Subject: Another (macOS) Code signing guidance question...
In-Reply-To: <478a7f56-e24e-fb8b-a29e-872572ff150a@researchware.com>
References: <478a7f56-e24e-fb8b-a29e-872572ff150a@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <18b1a721108.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

I got that far at least. I couldn't notarize on Monterey but my client on 
Sonoma had no problem using mrSignNotarizeHelper on Sonoma with Xcode 15. 
My issues happened after that. So I think you're safe using the tool on Sonoma.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On October 10, 2023 10:45:37 AM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I am looking at https://developer.apple.com/support/xcode
>
> To meet Apple's Nov 1 deadline of switch from the old Notarization tool
> (which I current use on Mojave) to the new one, I need to get set up on
> macOS 14 Sonoma.
>
> To me, from the Apple page, it look like I need xcode 15 (deployment
> targets of macOS 10.13-14) BUT I am concerned that the Livecode lesson
> by Matthias and his mrSignNotarizeHelper tool recommend Xcode 13 or 14
> (I don't see Xcode 15 mentioned). I may have (or probably did) miss
> something!
>
> The Apple Developer page suggest that Xcode 14.3.1 has a minim OS
> requirement of macOS Ventura 13 which suggest it can run on macOS 14 Sonoma?
>
> I only have a single macBook Air with Sonoma available to get sup up for
> the new notarization method. I really don't want to try to downgrade the
> macOS (I don't even know how to do that).
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From paul at researchware.com  Tue Oct 10 12:48:19 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 12:48:19 -0400
Subject: Another (macOS) Code signing guidance question...
In-Reply-To: <18b1a721108.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <478a7f56-e24e-fb8b-a29e-872572ff150a@researchware.com>
 <18b1a721108.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <eacf5374-7ef7-4f2b-e4fc-d1e1923e878b@researchware.com>

On 10/10/2023 12:36 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
> I got that far at least. I couldn't notarize on Monterey but my client 
> on Sonoma had no problem using mrSignNotarizeHelper on Sonoma with 
> Xcode 15. My issues happened after that. So I think you're safe using 
> the tool on Sonoma.
>

Thank you for the encouraging information!

Currently, I am struggling with get a signing cert into the keychain on 
the macBook Air with Sonoma. The cert I downloaded and double-click to 
add to the keychain on Mojave, generates an error trying to do the same 
on Sonoma (to bad as it was good until 2026!)

Not sure why it gives an error and would load into the keychain on Sonoma.


From ludovic.thebault at laposte.net  Tue Oct 10 13:14:48 2023
From: ludovic.thebault at laposte.net (Ludovic THEBAULT)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 19:14:48 +0200
Subject: Compiling for iOS : something wrong with Xcode and Sonoma
Message-ID: <CFD1C284-343F-47D3-85D0-73F855901290@laposte.net>

Hello,

Is livecode uptodate is compatible with Sonoma ?
When I try to compile for iOS I get this error :

There was an error while saving the standalone application linking for arm (arm64) failed with 2023-10-10 18:51:36.404 xcodebuild[74950:3301090] Writing error result bundle to
/var/folders/j2/bpc701v12p78vsrq5Ifpdd×00000gn/T/ResultBundle_2023-10-10_18-51-0036.xcresult
xcodebuild: error: SDK "iphoneos 16.2" cannot be located.
xcrun; error: sh -c '/Users/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/us/bin/ xcodebuild -sdk iphoneoslo. -hnd q++ <> devnul tailed with exit code 10384: (null) (errno=No such hle or directory)
xcrun: error: unable to find utility "g++", not a developer tool or in PATH

In the settings of livecode, I’ve selected Xcode 14.2 which doesn’t work on sonoma.
In Xcode 15 i’ve installed 16.2 simulator.
I’ve tried to install commandlinetools for Xcode 14.2 but it was refused.

Any ideas ?

Thanks !

Ludovic


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Oct 10 15:14:03 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 14:14:03 -0500
Subject: Can't codesign Mac app
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq9PV3qWeT41kfY9PEv_ewniO5zT=xL+xu4saEfqmerQnQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7d213e86-a1bd-be2a-e809-27c563860bc8@hyperactivesw.com>
 <efabbbb6-d81d-84a3-6e46-e3201dc2520b@hyperactivesw.com>
 <ecd8dc74-b08b-85cb-7183-d1a0d69dd41b@hyperactivesw.com>
 <849EDABE-ADF0-4A24-81F9-B87E1C1CE139@buffalo.edu>
 <4aa5f3d5-4119-86b7-318f-0e8fb8b0d6cd@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CA+JfEq9PV3qWeT41kfY9PEv_ewniO5zT=xL+xu4saEfqmerQnQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <664a260d-acdf-467b-afa5-411a1c095765@hyperactivesw.com>

On 10/10/23 1:07 AM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote:
> Have you included any entitlements when codesigning the app? I suggest including all of these: 
> https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1293515-entitlements-for-signed-and-notarized-apps There 
> is an option to do that in the settings (iirc) in Matthias' notarization tool.

I hadn't, but we just tried it and it still failed with all entitlements enabled.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Oct 10 15:53:08 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 14:53:08 -0500
Subject: Can't codesign Mac app
In-Reply-To: <FA243C78-0627-487F-8A99-2C43CAED530B@m-r-d.de>
References: <7d213e86-a1bd-be2a-e809-27c563860bc8@hyperactivesw.com>
 <efabbbb6-d81d-84a3-6e46-e3201dc2520b@hyperactivesw.com>
 <ecd8dc74-b08b-85cb-7183-d1a0d69dd41b@hyperactivesw.com>
 <849EDABE-ADF0-4A24-81F9-B87E1C1CE139@buffalo.edu>
 <4aa5f3d5-4119-86b7-318f-0e8fb8b0d6cd@hyperactivesw.com>
 <FA243C78-0627-487F-8A99-2C43CAED530B@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <15b38e23-3ffe-4190-915c-0146d515c177@hyperactivesw.com>

On 10/10/23 2:19 AM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote:
> Hello Jacque,
> 
> didn't you get the reason back why the app is rejected when you run 'spctl --assess --raw --verbose <appPath>' ?

No, all I got was what I posted. It was very short.

> I am not sure why your app i rejected. If you want to, i could test your app with spctl.... here on Sonoma.

I think I'll take you up on that, I'll send you the app in email. Thank you so much!

> Did you by any chance add additonal data to the standalone after it was built? >
> Or are you using any additional code which might be not in the right place in the bundle?
> There is an archive topic about this here
> https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/114943

No, I just used the app the way LC built it. After the first few failures I looked at the app 
contents and it seemed to be okay. That's when I noticed the dylib file.

> I am really sorry that i am of no real help.

You are always a huge help! I'll send you an email.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From dochawk at gmail.com  Tue Oct 10 16:50:38 2023
From: dochawk at gmail.com (doc hawk)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 13:50:38 -0700
Subject: Can't codesign Mac app
In-Reply-To: <7d213e86-a1bd-be2a-e809-27c563860bc8@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <7d213e86-a1bd-be2a-e809-27c563860bc8@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <CANQHZSFeMhTBDBxXF1mMka5AX0K09FDTx_-LGK-YAaAejDfYJw@mail.gmail.com>

jacqui juggled,

So then I tried notarizationHelper V4 but keep getting "no identity found"
errors.


Ah.

An identity crisis!

:)

From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Tue Oct 10 17:04:49 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 23:04:49 +0200
Subject: Another (macOS) Code signing guidance question...
In-Reply-To: <eacf5374-7ef7-4f2b-e4fc-d1e1923e878b@researchware.com>
References: <478a7f56-e24e-fb8b-a29e-872572ff150a@researchware.com>
 <18b1a721108.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <eacf5374-7ef7-4f2b-e4fc-d1e1923e878b@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <0B7574CC-CAFC-45C9-B8ED-A7C253BA9E97@m-r-d.de>

Paul,

you should be able to download and "install" the Apple certificates directly in Xcode.
To do so, open settings in Xcode and select "accounts" icon. There you should see a window which allows you to manage your certificates which also includes to install them.

Matthias


> Am 10.10.2023 um 18:48 schrieb Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> On 10/10/2023 12:36 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
>> I got that far at least. I couldn't notarize on Monterey but my client on Sonoma had no problem using mrSignNotarizeHelper on Sonoma with Xcode 15. My issues happened after that. So I think you're safe using the tool on Sonoma.
>> 
> 
> Thank you for the encouraging information!
> 
> Currently, I am struggling with get a signing cert into the keychain on the macBook Air with Sonoma. The cert I downloaded and double-click to add to the keychain on Mojave, generates an error trying to do the same on Sonoma (to bad as it was good until 2026!)
> 
> Not sure why it gives an error and would load into the keychain on Sonoma.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From paul at researchware.com  Tue Oct 10 17:16:46 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 17:16:46 -0400
Subject: AW: Another (macOS) Code signing guidance question...
In-Reply-To: <478a7f56-e24e-fb8b-a29e-872572ff150a@researchware.com>
References: <478a7f56-e24e-fb8b-a29e-872572ff150a@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <2e9c987b-9bfd-5ecf-aa3a-1104d095f725@researchware.com>

Under macOS 14.0 Sonoma on a M1 macBook Air,  I have set up the Command 
Line Tools for XCode 15.0 and have successfully signed, notarized, and 
stapled a Livecode Standalone using the new Apple notarization command 
that goes into effect on November 1, 2023

Effect 1-NOV-2023, the notarization command changes from "xcrun altool 
..." to "xcrun notarytool ..." and instead of getting an email when 
Notarization is done, the terminal command now waits and tells you when 
the process if "accepted" (i.e. done)

Thanks to Matthias Rebbe's excellent documentation at 
https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1653720-code-signing-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore-with-xcode-13-and-up 
the actual notarization part was easy.

The hardest part was getting the correct Certificates into the Keychain 
on the macBook Air. When code signing I kept getting an "identity not 
found" (or something like that) that meant I didn't have the "right" 
certificate or the certificate installed where it was needed.

I had downloaded the SAME cert that I current use to code sign under 
Mojave from the Apple Developer site to the macBook Ait and double 
clicked it. This initially kept generating an error could that the cert 
could not be used. This was because I had not selected the "Login" 
keychain in the keychain tool. After selecting the Login keychain and 
drag and dropping teh download cert file it installed without error and 
said it was a valid certificate. Still, the command line to code sign 
would not work, reporting "identify not found"


Comparing the Keychain on Mojave to the Keychain on Sonoma, I could see 
2 things (1) The downloaded signing cert was only showing up under the 
"Certificates" tab on Sonoma and under BOTH the "Certificates" tab and 
the "My Certificates" tabs under Mojave and (2) the Mojave keychain had 
2 additional certs installed in both tabs - one an Apple developer cert 
and one with a long string of hex and dashed that i think was a reissued 
Apple Intermediate cert.

I ultimately had to delete the downloaded code signing cert on Sonoma, 
export the SAME developer code signing cert and the 2 other apple ones 
from Mojave, move them to Sonoma, and import them into the Sonoma 
keychain and then code signing work as documented.

I thought I would tell this tale just in case it helps someone else.


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Oct 10 18:07:02 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 17:07:02 -0500
Subject: AW: Another (macOS) Code signing guidance question...
In-Reply-To: <2e9c987b-9bfd-5ecf-aa3a-1104d095f725@researchware.com>
References: <478a7f56-e24e-fb8b-a29e-872572ff150a@researchware.com>
 <2e9c987b-9bfd-5ecf-aa3a-1104d095f725@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <9b176893-d16d-40a0-af73-c0034a7b3989@hyperactivesw.com>

On 10/10/23 4:16 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
> The hardest part was getting the correct Certificates into the Keychain on the macBook Air. 
> When code signing I kept getting an "identity not found" (or something like that) that meant I 
> didn't have the "right" certificate or the certificate installed where it was needed.

Thanks for this. That was the error I was getting too. Apparently both of us have identity 
crises (ref: Doc Hawk. The smartalec.)

Guess I need to dig around in Keychain.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From merakosp at gmail.com  Tue Oct 10 20:23:24 2023
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2023 03:23:24 +0300
Subject: AW: Another (macOS) Code signing guidance question...
In-Reply-To: <9b176893-d16d-40a0-af73-c0034a7b3989@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <478a7f56-e24e-fb8b-a29e-872572ff150a@researchware.com>
 <2e9c987b-9bfd-5ecf-aa3a-1104d095f725@researchware.com>
 <9b176893-d16d-40a0-af73-c0034a7b3989@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq-wBz5MOUH_y_pWGNVs5wdXnksaikNUR_A=teEZz8V5Sw@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all,

Just downloading the certificate from your account in the apple dev
website, and using it in a different machine from the one it was created
will not work (you get identity not found), because you need the private
key as well.

This is why you have to export the certificate from the old machine,
because exporting the certificate exports the private key that is
associated with it as well.

Kind regards,
Panos

On Wed, 11 Oct 2023, 01:08 J. Landman Gay via use-livecode, <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On 10/10/23 4:16 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
> > The hardest part was getting the correct Certificates into the Keychain
> on the macBook Air.
> > When code signing I kept getting an "identity not found" (or something
> like that) that meant I
> > didn't have the "right" certificate or the certificate installed where
> it was needed.
>
> Thanks for this. That was the error I was getting too. Apparently both of
> us have identity
> crises (ref: Doc Hawk. The smartalec.)
>
> Guess I need to dig around in Keychain.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From stephen at barncard.com  Wed Oct 11 03:41:57 2023
From: stephen at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2023 00:41:57 -0700
Subject: Window code signing certificate source recommendations
In-Reply-To: <8A49D398-80A5-4C6F-BC80-3852A5614588@m-r-d.de>
References: <bfd548c9-22c9-bae3-d178-5bc3cfc49553@researchware.com>
 <ECCDEE61-0CDF-4411-B0B5-65E862D2E49F@m-r-d.de>
 <0d0feb9a-c216-c3cb-0a7a-9972fb723048@researchware.com>
 <8A49D398-80A5-4C6F-BC80-3852A5614588@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <CAFmQfH+pTSvsfaM4NbG8CLTPK4qzin1fmNXYqisqG6mp7hy3uQ@mail.gmail.com>

Programming is just not fun any more.
Being creative is now just completely overwhelmed by ... whatever this
is... just to get the thing on the air so people won't hack or steal.
*Security* is a job we need AI to handle, not to replace our own creativity
in the app itself.....
sqb
--
Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA -
mixstream.org


On Tue, Oct 10, 2023 at 6:57 AM matthias rebbe via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Paul,
>
> just googled a little bit...
>
> If you have a safenet USB Token, than there seems to be a way to disable
> the password pop up.
>
> https://www.finalbuilder.com/resources/blogs/code-signing-with-usb-tokens
>
> > Am 10.10.2023 um 15:05 schrieb Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> >
> > On 10/10/2023 8:53 AM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote:
> >> Hello Paul,
> >>
> >> unfortunately this is the "new" standard. Since 1st June 2023 private
> keys has to be stored on a Token.
> >>
> https://www.sslpoint.com/new-private-key-storage-requirement-for-standard-code-signing-certificates/
> >>
> >> There is no way anymore to export a certificate for example to .pfx.
> >> And much more of a pain, it is not possible anymore to code sign
> Windows app under macOS or at least i was not able to so so far.
> >>
> >> I have a "cloud" certificate from Certum which i purchased from SSL
> Point (https://www.sslpoint.com <https://www.sslpoint.com/>)
> >>
> >> With this type of certificate the private key is not stored on a USB
> token. This "cloud" certifcate  works similar to a usb token. I also have
> to install some software. This software allow me to login to the "cloud"
> and after successful login i can use that certificate
> >> with Microsoft's signtool and JARsigner.
> >>
> https://www.files.certum.eu/documents/manual_en/Code-Signing-signing-the-code-using-tools-like-Singtool-and-Jarsigner_v2.3.pdf
> >>
> >> So to automate your signing, you just have to keep a Windows PC running
> and make sure that you are logged in to the "Cloud". As long as the
> software is logged in you have access to the certificate.
> >> I don't know if this is also the case with the USB Token. Could not
> test it, because i do not have a usb token. ;)
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Matthias
> >
> > First, thank you for the very informative reply (with links!)
> >
> > Second, this "new" standard STINKS!
> >
> > The cloud cert sound interesting, but we recently renewed out macOS cert
> and now we've just renewed our Windows cert, so, short of trying to get
> money back from Comodo and switching to the "cloud", I guess I am stuck
> with the "new" crappy standard.
> >
> > I do not see how large software companies that automate build, signing,
> and even QA testing can accept this change. But they must of the suppliers
> of certs would not go this route for loss of income.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From paul at researchware.com  Wed Oct 11 06:26:21 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2023 06:26:21 -0400
Subject: Window code signing certificate source recommendations
In-Reply-To: <8A49D398-80A5-4C6F-BC80-3852A5614588@m-r-d.de>
References: <bfd548c9-22c9-bae3-d178-5bc3cfc49553@researchware.com>
 <ECCDEE61-0CDF-4411-B0B5-65E862D2E49F@m-r-d.de>
 <0d0feb9a-c216-c3cb-0a7a-9972fb723048@researchware.com>
 <8A49D398-80A5-4C6F-BC80-3852A5614588@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <21eff6a2-ab3a-4b27-ef1e-0837e5b56765@researchware.com>

On 10/10/2023 9:56 AM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote:
> Paul,
>
> just googled a little bit...
>
> If you have a safenet USB Token, than there seems to be a way to disable the password pop up.
>
> https://www.finalbuilder.com/resources/blogs/code-signing-with-usb-tokens
>
>

Thank you for this!

We have to get back to doing some development now that we have a new 
Windows Cert and our mac Cert is working with Apple's Nov 1 new 
notarization process, but I'll give this a try when I have a chance.


From markclark at mac.com  Wed Oct 11 08:03:48 2023
From: markclark at mac.com (Mark Clark)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2023 07:03:48 -0500
Subject: Another (macOS) Code signing guidance question...
In-Reply-To: <9b176893-d16d-40a0-af73-c0034a7b3989@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <478a7f56-e24e-fb8b-a29e-872572ff150a@researchware.com>
 <2e9c987b-9bfd-5ecf-aa3a-1104d095f725@researchware.com>
 <9b176893-d16d-40a0-af73-c0034a7b3989@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <9AF15A9D-1325-4413-85ED-3FDBA74D3870@mac.com>

I haven't tried the API/web service for notarizing apps. But there appears to be a way and it might be simpler in the long run. Still need the (right) keys:)


https://developer.apple.com/documentation/notaryapi/submitting_software_for_notarization_over_the_web


On Oct 10, 2023, at 5:07 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

On 10/10/23 4:16 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
> The hardest part was getting the correct Certificates into the Keychain on the macBook Air. When code signing I kept getting an "identity not found" (or something like that) that meant I didn't have the "right" certificate or the certificate installed where it was needed.

Thanks for this. That was the error I was getting too. Apparently both of us have identity crises (ref: Doc Hawk. The smartalec.)

Guess I need to dig around in Keychain.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Wed Oct 11 09:21:28 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2023 09:21:28 -0400
Subject: No progress updates on LC 10. Am i the only one who is concerned?
In-Reply-To: <5f636baf-03c6-18e5-45dd-483c3219bc66@cogapp.com>
References: <8F7D10FF-1B32-4177-BFDC-7CEE721ACF8A@m-r-d.de>
 <13ec553f-f7ef-8fb7-42b5-77e6205cec4b@cogapp.com>
 <CAKCLKtouxq+aXSTuAmrygOS=X_y9E0RJtCRnjO=1VOwburVTcw@mail.gmail.com>
 <51859D53-03FD-4FA6-9C97-33B04803F016@mail.com>
 <CAKCLKtpwpgf=nXkSAk762ZuD9ZU+qs31aB0hXd7LNaidaniiPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <53887cdf-9bf4-4534-0741-ab08156b180b@cogapp.com>
 <5f636baf-03c6-18e5-45dd-483c3219bc66@cogapp.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycPR9Zz9wtvtV12Yw6K0AAe02+vzf9c1NdZQPLNND3bkxw@mail.gmail.com>

it's october. do you know where the script compiler and usable html5 are?

On Mon, Aug 21, 2023 at 12:10 PM Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Sad update: it's just happened to me again, with Bracket Completion
> switched
> off. I literally checked just before starting to type the format
> statement;
> after it crashed and I relaunched 10.0.0.dp5, I checked again. It was
> still
> switched off.
>
> I see that the bug is marked awaiting release - but it's not mentioned in
> the
> release notes for 10.0.0dp6.
>
> :-(
>
>
> On 26/07/2023 09:58, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode wrote:
> > Oooh - I hadn't spotted that. (With only a little bit of fear) I'll
> venture
> > back into 10dp5 and turn that off. Thanks Geoff!
> >
> > On 26/07/2023 03:49, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode wrote:
> >> So, not to be too much of an apologist, but the issue doesn't seem like
> a
> >> showstopper to me.
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jul 25, 2023 at 10:36 AM Dick Kriesel via use-livecode <
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On Jul 25, 2023, at 11:37 AM, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode <
> >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Maybe a silly question, but that issue lists "turn on bracket
> completion"
> >>>> as a step to reproduce. If bracket completion is off, is it safe?
> >>>
> >>> Hi, Geoff. I filed the report. With bracket completion off, I saw no
> such
> >>> problem.
> >>> — Dick
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> use-livecode mailing list
> >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >>> subscription preferences:
> >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription
> >> preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription
> > preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Wed Oct 11 09:41:09 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2023 15:41:09 +0200
Subject: No progress updates on LC 10. Am i the only one who is concerned?
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycPR9Zz9wtvtV12Yw6K0AAe02+vzf9c1NdZQPLNND3bkxw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8F7D10FF-1B32-4177-BFDC-7CEE721ACF8A@m-r-d.de>
 <13ec553f-f7ef-8fb7-42b5-77e6205cec4b@cogapp.com>
 <CAKCLKtouxq+aXSTuAmrygOS=X_y9E0RJtCRnjO=1VOwburVTcw@mail.gmail.com>
 <51859D53-03FD-4FA6-9C97-33B04803F016@mail.com>
 <CAKCLKtpwpgf=nXkSAk762ZuD9ZU+qs31aB0hXd7LNaidaniiPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <53887cdf-9bf4-4534-0741-ab08156b180b@cogapp.com>
 <5f636baf-03c6-18e5-45dd-483c3219bc66@cogapp.com>
 <CADCoycPR9Zz9wtvtV12Yw6K0AAe02+vzf9c1NdZQPLNND3bkxw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1FAB985C-2868-4564-906D-64233AD1F359@m-r-d.de>

I am afraid the whole power is put into the Web platform. 
And i am not sure how i should feel about it.



> Am 11.10.2023 um 15:21 schrieb Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> it's october. do you know where the script compiler and usable html5 are?
> 
> On Mon, Aug 21, 2023 at 12:10 PM Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Sad update: it's just happened to me again, with Bracket Completion
>> switched
>> off. I literally checked just before starting to type the format
>> statement;
>> after it crashed and I relaunched 10.0.0.dp5, I checked again. It was
>> still
>> switched off.
>> 
>> I see that the bug is marked awaiting release - but it's not mentioned in
>> the
>> release notes for 10.0.0dp6.
>> 
>> :-(
>> 
>> 
>> On 26/07/2023 09:58, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Oooh - I hadn't spotted that. (With only a little bit of fear) I'll
>> venture
>>> back into 10dp5 and turn that off. Thanks Geoff!
>>> 
>>> On 26/07/2023 03:49, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> So, not to be too much of an apologist, but the issue doesn't seem like
>> a
>>>> showstopper to me.
>>>> 
>>>> On Tue, Jul 25, 2023 at 10:36 AM Dick Kriesel via use-livecode <
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jul 25, 2023, at 11:37 AM, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode <
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Maybe a silly question, but that issue lists "turn on bracket
>> completion"
>>>>>> as a step to reproduce. If bracket completion is off, is it safe?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi, Geoff. I filed the report. With bracket completion off, I saw no
>> such
>>>>> problem.
>>>>> — Dick
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription
>>>> preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription
>>> preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>   and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org  Wed Oct 11 11:28:27 2023
From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (William Prothero)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2023 08:28:27 -0700
Subject: No progress updates on LC 10. Am i the only one who is concerned?
In-Reply-To: <1FAB985C-2868-4564-906D-64233AD1F359@m-r-d.de>
References: <1FAB985C-2868-4564-906D-64233AD1F359@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <1DBE4E66-92D0-4FCF-87B1-49A0A85E823D@earthlearningsolutions.org>

Just my take,
I'm just currently using livecode to write personal software. The various issues related to the app store and compatibility with other platforms are not something I have time or energy for. I'm retired and like to work on fun, rewarding projects, not frustrating searches for the one setting that will move me forward. 

However, the possibility that Livecode might become a platform for developing web applications is extremely interesting to me. It would encourage me to develop and post interactive learning games that I've thought about. However, the development process would need an interface that works in a well documented, straightforward way without the need to learn auxiliary programs (E.g. Javascript, php, python, c++, etc).

If I could write a program in livecode that deploys as easily as currently possible on my own desktop, I would be very overjoyed.

Bill
William A. Prothero, PhD
Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science
University of California, Santa Barbara


From ludovic.thebault at laposte.net  Wed Oct 11 12:06:37 2023
From: ludovic.thebault at laposte.net (Ludovic THEBAULT)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2023 18:06:37 +0200
Subject: Compiling for iOS : something wrong with Xcode and Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <CFD1C284-343F-47D3-85D0-73F855901290@laposte.net>
References: <CFD1C284-343F-47D3-85D0-73F855901290@laposte.net>
Message-ID: <B8C27330-F2BD-47E2-9E27-EA5C6F745CF8@laposte.net>



> Le 10 oct. 2023 à 19:14, Ludovic THEBAULT via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> a écrit :
> 
> Hello,
> 
> Is livecode uptodate is compatible with Sonoma ?
> When I try to compile for iOS I get this error :
> 
> There was an error while saving the standalone application linking for arm (arm64) failed with 2023-10-10 18:51:36.404 xcodebuild[74950:3301090] Writing error result bundle to
> /var/folders/j2/bpc701v12p78vsrq5Ifpdd×00000gn/T/ResultBundle_2023-10-10_18-51-0036.xcresult
> xcodebuild: error: SDK "iphoneos 16.2" cannot be located.
> xcrun; error: sh -c '/Users/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/us/bin/ xcodebuild -sdk iphoneoslo. -hnd q++ <> devnul tailed with exit code 10384: (null) (errno=No such hle or directory)
> xcrun: error: unable to find utility "g++", not a developer tool or in PATH
> 
> In the settings of livecode, I’ve selected Xcode 14.2 which doesn’t work on sonoma.
> In Xcode 15 i’ve installed 16.2 simulator.
> I’ve tried to install commandlinetools for Xcode 14.2 but it was refused.
> 
> Any ideas ?
> 
> Thanks !
> 

Hello, I found the solution :

In the terminal, use this command to switch to the « good » Xcode :
sudo xcode-select -switch /path/to/Xcode.app



Ludovic


From tom at makeshyft.com  Wed Oct 11 14:09:55 2023
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2023 14:09:55 -0400
Subject: No progress updates on LC 10. Am i the only one who is concerned?
In-Reply-To: <1DBE4E66-92D0-4FCF-87B1-49A0A85E823D@earthlearningsolutions.org>
References: <1FAB985C-2868-4564-906D-64233AD1F359@m-r-d.de>
 <1DBE4E66-92D0-4FCF-87B1-49A0A85E823D@earthlearningsolutions.org>
Message-ID: <CAPzQJLLD1HANFxkRe8mC+X4A67UunukcdrvLsirFa0DTVLcDYQ@mail.gmail.com>

On October 7th 2022, Kevin said that there would be a preview of the script
compiler in the next few weeks.
Thats the last update I found in the blog.
Software is hard, and we all miss deadlines, but an update would be good.
I tried to reach out to Mark W to get an update, but received no response.


On Wed, Oct 11, 2023 at 11:29 AM William Prothero via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Just my take,
> I'm just currently using livecode to write personal software. The various
> issues related to the app store and compatibility with other platforms are
> not something I have time or energy for. I'm retired and like to work on
> fun, rewarding projects, not frustrating searches for the one setting that
> will move me forward.
>
> However, the possibility that Livecode might become a platform for
> developing web applications is extremely interesting to me. It would
> encourage me to develop and post interactive learning games that I've
> thought about. However, the development process would need an interface
> that works in a well documented, straightforward way without the need to
> learn auxiliary programs (E.g. Javascript, php, python, c++, etc).
>
> If I could write a program in livecode that deploys as easily as currently
> possible on my own desktop, I would be very overjoyed.
>
> Bill
> William A. Prothero, PhD
> Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science
> University of California, Santa Barbara
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Oct 11 14:19:44 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2023 13:19:44 -0500
Subject: AW: Another (macOS) Code signing guidance question...
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq-wBz5MOUH_y_pWGNVs5wdXnksaikNUR_A=teEZz8V5Sw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <478a7f56-e24e-fb8b-a29e-872572ff150a@researchware.com>
 <2e9c987b-9bfd-5ecf-aa3a-1104d095f725@researchware.com>
 <9b176893-d16d-40a0-af73-c0034a7b3989@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CA+JfEq-wBz5MOUH_y_pWGNVs5wdXnksaikNUR_A=teEZz8V5Sw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e7a23c6d-9b45-42de-919d-95cc8d9c797f@hyperactivesw.com>

On 10/10/23 7:23 PM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote:
> Just downloading the certificate from your account in the apple dev website, and using it in a 
> different machine from the one it was created will not work (you get identity not found),

I wish the error message would be more informative. If I'd known the error was related to the 
certificate I'd have saved myself a lot of time. Thanks for this.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Oct 11 14:23:58 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2023 13:23:58 -0500
Subject: No progress updates on LC 10. Am i the only one who is concerned?
In-Reply-To: <1DBE4E66-92D0-4FCF-87B1-49A0A85E823D@earthlearningsolutions.org>
References: <1FAB985C-2868-4564-906D-64233AD1F359@m-r-d.de>
 <1DBE4E66-92D0-4FCF-87B1-49A0A85E823D@earthlearningsolutions.org>
Message-ID: <0fbc5bb5-0138-4246-b3e1-b7427a97fa83@hyperactivesw.com>

On 10/11/23 10:28 AM, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote:
> However, the development process would need an interface that works in a well documented, 
> straightforward way

Right. I tried LC Create for a few days but without documentation I didn't get very far. I 
couldn't figure out what syntax to use on all the new widgets and after some hours I gave up.

Every new control should have at least a list of messages/functions it uses. Without that, 
about all you can to is play with layouts for now. That's not an insignificant thing, but it is 
limiting.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Wed Oct 11 14:24:43 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2023 20:24:43 +0200
Subject: Another (macOS) Code signing guidance question...
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq-wBz5MOUH_y_pWGNVs5wdXnksaikNUR_A=teEZz8V5Sw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <478a7f56-e24e-fb8b-a29e-872572ff150a@researchware.com>
 <2e9c987b-9bfd-5ecf-aa3a-1104d095f725@researchware.com>
 <9b176893-d16d-40a0-af73-c0034a7b3989@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CA+JfEq-wBz5MOUH_y_pWGNVs5wdXnksaikNUR_A=teEZz8V5Sw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <83796971-3CB2-47E9-89F3-27D91288EB71@m-r-d.de>

Panos,


> Am 11.10.2023 um 02:23 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> Just downloading the certificate from your account in the apple dev
> website, and using it in a different machine from the one it was created
> will not work (you get identity not found), because you need the private
> key as well.
> 
But this is not case when the key chain is saved to iCloud and the other machine is also using the same iCloud account, isn't it.
At least i had never problems to download the certificates to an other computer which had also access to the same key chain in iCloud.

Regards,
Matthias



> This is why you have to export the certificate from the old machine,
> because exporting the certificate exports the private key that is
> associated with it as well.
> 
> Kind regards,
> Panos
> 
> On Wed, 11 Oct 2023, 01:08 J. Landman Gay via use-livecode, <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 10/10/23 4:16 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
>>> The hardest part was getting the correct Certificates into the Keychain
>> on the macBook Air.
>>> When code signing I kept getting an "identity not found" (or something
>> like that) that meant I
>>> didn't have the "right" certificate or the certificate installed where
>> it was needed.
>> 
>> Thanks for this. That was the error I was getting too. Apparently both of
>> us have identity
>> crises (ref: Doc Hawk. The smartalec.)
>> 
>> Guess I need to dig around in Keychain.
>> 
>> --
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Wed Oct 11 14:38:38 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2023 14:38:38 -0400
Subject: No progress updates on LC 10. Am i the only one who is concerned?
In-Reply-To: <0fbc5bb5-0138-4246-b3e1-b7427a97fa83@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <1FAB985C-2868-4564-906D-64233AD1F359@m-r-d.de>
 <1DBE4E66-92D0-4FCF-87B1-49A0A85E823D@earthlearningsolutions.org>
 <0fbc5bb5-0138-4246-b3e1-b7427a97fa83@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycPqGFL4xAwRgqDY99kMntimY1kw9=LHAZMafTkC_ZwEiA@mail.gmail.com>

"a few weeks" was also last october, then november, then last december.
i get it, i'm starting to sound like one of the grumpy old guys.
i'm also one who threw down for an html5 license (waiting for it to be
usable), and paid for a compiler license, what, eleven months ago?
i used to dismiss all the folks who complained about lc-forever, or
ic-reinvented, or whatever the campaign was from was it a decade ago when
lc went OSS? it can't be a decade ago.
unfortunately, the fact is that the sales pitches, year-after-year, are all
pay now, get later, and we seem to be left waiting, each time.

On Wed, Oct 11, 2023 at 2:24 PM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On 10/11/23 10:28 AM, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote:
> > However, the development process would need an interface that works in a
> well documented,
> > straightforward way
>
> Right. I tried LC Create for a few days but without documentation I didn't
> get very far. I
> couldn't figure out what syntax to use on all the new widgets and after
> some hours I gave up.
>
> Every new control should have at least a list of messages/functions it
> uses. Without that,
> about all you can to is play with layouts for now. That's not an
> insignificant thing, but it is
> limiting.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From paul at researchware.com  Wed Oct 11 14:55:49 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2023 14:55:49 -0400
Subject: AW: Another (macOS) Code signing guidance question...
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq-wBz5MOUH_y_pWGNVs5wdXnksaikNUR_A=teEZz8V5Sw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <478a7f56-e24e-fb8b-a29e-872572ff150a@researchware.com>
 <2e9c987b-9bfd-5ecf-aa3a-1104d095f725@researchware.com>
 <9b176893-d16d-40a0-af73-c0034a7b3989@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CA+JfEq-wBz5MOUH_y_pWGNVs5wdXnksaikNUR_A=teEZz8V5Sw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6fedbecb-2b71-1ba0-39ad-f854b371b5d4@researchware.com>

On 10/10/2023 8:23 PM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> Just downloading the certificate from your account in the apple dev
> website, and using it in a different machine from the one it was created
> will not work (you get identity not found), because you need the private
> key as well.
>
> This is why you have to export the certificate from the old machine,
> because exporting the certificate exports the private key that is
> associated with it as well.
>
> Kind regards,
> Panos
>

Thank you Panos.  If you or Matthias ever come across (or write) a goo 
step by step for getting Apple Certs to a new machine (new cert from 
Apple to a new machine, existing cert from Apple to a new machine, 
existing cert from one machine to another I think are the 3 
possibilities) you should link to it or add it to the code signing and 
notarization lesson.

We only do this rarely. For example I have a Apple Code signing cert 
that was created in 2021 and good until 2026. That was a replacement for 
an earlier one. I put than on a Mojave system that I have used to code 
sign since 2021. In 2 years time I have not touch the certs and would 
not have until 2026 if Apple did change the notarization command and 
make me move to a newer macOS. So I forget how its done. I even forget 
where I filed my own documentation on how to do it. So it's like trying 
to do it from scratch each time.

I try to do all the code signing (mac and win) and notarization (mac) by 
command line even though there are GUI tools (Matthias's excellent stack 
and AppWrapper and on and on) so that I at least know the steps in the 
process and id something goes wrong (because the vendor changes 
something) I know what step blew up.

Any way, thank you again.




From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Wed Oct 11 16:58:59 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2023 20:58:59 +0000
Subject: How rawKeyUp is handled
Message-ID: <SJ0PR02MB75331871B12F1F1F096F1067B2CCA@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>

Hi all.

I just found a strange oddity where on MacOS when I type a keyboard key in a field with a rawKeyUp handler, the letter is typed first, then the field gets the rawKeyUp message. This allows me to check the contents of the field for empty in case the user hit the backspace key to erase whatever was in the field.

On WINDOWS however, the letter is put into the field AFTER the rawKeyUp message, and since the handler exits to top if the field is empty, I can never type anything into the field!

More specifically, I have a field I use for hot typing a value, and after 1 second of no new data, it launches a database query to search for records matching what was entered. I call it the FindBar group and I use it EVERYWHERE!

So my question is, is this the expected behavior on a Windows OS??

Bob S

From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Wed Oct 11 17:18:18 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2023 21:18:18 +0000
Subject: How rawKeyUp is handled
In-Reply-To: <SJ0PR02MB75331871B12F1F1F096F1067B2CCA@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB75331871B12F1F1F096F1067B2CCA@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <SJ0PR02MB753350C733AA0EA31A39FE7FB2CCA@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>

Okay, belay my last. Something else is preventing the key from entering the field. I just tested it in new stack with a new field. 

Bob S


-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> On Behalf Of Bob Sneidar via use-livecode
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2023 1:59 PM
To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Cc: Bob Sneidar <bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com>
Subject: How rawKeyUp is handled

Hi all.

I just found a strange oddity where on MacOS when I type a keyboard key in a field with a rawKeyUp handler, the letter is typed first, then the field gets the rawKeyUp message. This allows me to check the contents of the field for empty in case the user hit the backspace key to erase whatever was in the field.

On WINDOWS however, the letter is put into the field AFTER the rawKeyUp message, and since the handler exits to top if the field is empty, I can never type anything into the field!

More specifically, I have a field I use for hot typing a value, and after 1 second of no new data, it launches a database query to search for records matching what was entered. I call it the FindBar group and I use it EVERYWHERE!

So my question is, is this the expected behavior on a Windows OS??

Bob S
_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From david.bovill at gmail.com  Thu Oct 12 08:53:41 2023
From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 13:53:41 +0100
Subject: Questions on Wasm export, licenses and file size
In-Reply-To: <BN8PR14MB2913C5C41722881CA0B1E684AFE5A@BN8PR14MB2913.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
References: <BN8PR14MB2913C5C41722881CA0B1E684AFE5A@BN8PR14MB2913.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAGASioOYQezyihnKgTvjxtkageUJO0ea_SUUfG+Sxr36azxpMQ@mail.gmail.com>

I know that HTML5 export is not quite ready yet - but I’m a patient man :)
I would like to know how it works / will work - particularly with regard to
the size of the exports.

With the old JavaScript export you had a separation between the engine  and
stacks such that you could cache the engine part in the browser to speed up
the loading of the much smaller stacks. Is that the case (or it is intended
to be the case in the future) with the wasm export?

I’m looking towards a world in which multiple wasm components written in
various languages sit on a web page talking to each other.

From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Oct 12 09:35:16 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 15:35:16 +0200
Subject: Android: Myapp stopped
Message-ID: <1606522B-12FB-4A06-9672-42801556D1C8@major-k.de>

Hi friends,

I am trying to install my app on the tablets of my bandmembers
and succeeded on all but one!?

Info: 
Samsung Galaxy Tab S
Android 6.0.1, API 23

After installation from LC (Test) I tap on the icon and get the alert:
-> Leadsheeter stopped (angehalten) 
immediately, no more info.

I already emptied cache and data and whatnot and even restarted 
the device a couple of times, no dice!?

The only info I could get after starting Android Studio was in the
"Device File Explorer" panel for the device which reads:
----------------------------------------
data -> app -> com.major-k.de.leadsheeter-1
run-as: Could not set capabilities: Operation not permitted
----------------------------------------
API too old? Anything else I can check in Android Studio?

Any hints very welcome!

Thanks a lot in advance.


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Thu Oct 12 09:43:30 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 15:43:30 +0200
Subject: Android: Myapp stopped
In-Reply-To: <1606522B-12FB-4A06-9672-42801556D1C8@major-k.de>
References: <1606522B-12FB-4A06-9672-42801556D1C8@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <868BFAC3-2668-4F7D-8810-13BE51051F60@m-r-d.de>

Hm,
just a shot in the dark, did you enable the Development mode on the tablets?



> Am 12.10.2023 um 15:35 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi friends,
> 
> I am trying to install my app on the tablets of my bandmembers
> and succeeded on all but one!?
> 
> Info: 
> Samsung Galaxy Tab S
> Android 6.0.1, API 23
> 
> After installation from LC (Test) I tap on the icon and get the alert:
> -> Leadsheeter stopped (angehalten) 
> immediately, no more info.
> 
> I already emptied cache and data and whatnot and even restarted 
> the device a couple of times, no dice!?
> 
> The only info I could get after starting Android Studio was in the
> "Device File Explorer" panel for the device which reads:
> ----------------------------------------
> data -> app -> com.major-k.de.leadsheeter-1
> run-as: Could not set capabilities: Operation not permitted
> ----------------------------------------
> API too old? Anything else I can check in Android Studio?
> 
> Any hints very welcome!
> 
> Thanks a lot in advance.
> 
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Oct 12 09:47:33 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 15:47:33 +0200
Subject: Android: Myapp stopped
In-Reply-To: <868BFAC3-2668-4F7D-8810-13BE51051F60@m-r-d.de>
References: <1606522B-12FB-4A06-9672-42801556D1C8@major-k.de>
 <868BFAC3-2668-4F7D-8810-13BE51051F60@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <F203628A-2F09-4A71-9696-13331A9ECCD7@major-k.de>



> Am 12.10.2023 um 15:43 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hm,
> just a shot in the dark, did you enable the Development mode on the tablets?

sure! 

A propos dark:
At midnight on a graveyard I tapped SEVEN times on the buildnumber, 
that should have done the trick, right! :-D

>> Am 12.10.2023 um 15:35 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Hi friends,
>> 
>> I am trying to install my app on the tablets of my bandmembers
>> and succeeded on all but one!?
>> 
>> Info: 
>> Samsung Galaxy Tab S
>> Android 6.0.1, API 23
>> 
>> After installation from LC (Test) I tap on the icon and get the alert:
>> -> Leadsheeter stopped (angehalten) 
>> immediately, no more info.
>> 
>> I already emptied cache and data and whatnot and even restarted 
>> the device a couple of times, no dice!?
>> 
>> The only info I could get after starting Android Studio was in the
>> "Device File Explorer" panel for the device which reads:
>> ----------------------------------------
>> data -> app -> com.major-k.de.leadsheeter-1
>> run-as: Could not set capabilities: Operation not permitted
>> ----------------------------------------
>> API too old? Anything else I can check in Android Studio?
>> 
>> Any hints very welcome!

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu Oct 12 11:36:34 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 15:36:34 +0000
Subject: Windows Standalone strands windows tasks
Message-ID: <SJ0PR02MB7533F0AE31AA9A3E67B47373B2D3A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>

Hi all.

I have a standalone that uses a splash stack, which upon launch displays a startup graphic, then hides itself and opens the mainstack of my project. On MacOS when I "quit" the entire application quits. On Windows however the splash stack (which is the stack the standalone is built from) keeps running, and if I re-launch the standalone it creates a second instance of the app in memory.

How do I get the standalone to quit when I close the mainstack in Windows?

Bob S

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Oct 12 12:07:54 2023
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (ambassador at fourthworld.com)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 16:07:54 +0000
Subject: Questions on Wasm export, licenses and file siz
Message-ID: <bc403825e4859c15ac1ce40f4e17acd098cf6d7e@fourthworld.com>

David Bovill wrote:
> With the old JavaScript export you had a separation between the engine
> and stacks such that you could cache the engine part in the browser to
> speed up the loading of the much smaller stacks. Is that the case (or
> it is intended to be the case in the future) with the wasm export?

A couple years ago Andre outlined the differences between JS and WASM, worth reviewing:
https://www.mail-archive.com/use-livecode%40lists.runrev.com/msg111108.html

With your background you're probably well aware of the differences, but since we see so many conceptualizing WASM as "compiled JavaScript" it's worth taking a moment to review their respective boundaries.

Given that WASM has no direct access to the DOM, and therefore no direct manipulation of controls or events, it is not a drop-in replacement for JS.

In LC terms, it may be best to think about WASM's relationship to the browser as similar to what externals are to LC.

Of course externals are very powerful; most of the v8 bullet points were new externals. But they still need LC Script to interface with our apps.

The degree to which LC Ltd will be able to compile the whole engine into WASM is a good question, but it seems clear it will be limited in some ways, and it's unlikely we'll see compilation of LC Script to WASM for the foreseeable future.

The good news is that the LC Community has a growing body of knowledge around JavaScript: some of the cooler widgets are just wrappers around a browser instance running JS/HTML/CSS.  And given the vast amounts of web-native (JS/HTML/CSS) code out in the world, folks are continually finding new ways to integrate the native web stack with LC stack objects nicely.

If web deployment is the goal, I see no downside and much to be gained from spending more time practicing JavaScript. While different from xTalk, it's a good language, and arguably closer to what xTalk might have looked like if HyperCard premiered 10 years later than it did.

Being comfortable with JS means being able to fill in gaps between your LC work and LC's web export more easily, and even within LC today it's the gateway to vast components via the browser widget.

JS is the only interactive language included in browsers.  The best time to learn it was yesterday. The second best time is today.

Like AppleScript, PowerShell, bash, and others, learning other languages opens new doors for integrating LC across a wide variety of systems.

Bonus: the more you learn JS, the less you need to wait for with the feature completion in LC's web export.

As for your question about deployment size, we can expect a WASMified engine to be smaller than its JS version, but there are so many factors that go into that it may just be too early to tell.

If you do a web search for "WASM replace JavaScript" you'll not only get deeper discussions than what I've offered here, but also some confounding benchmarks where it's possible to have compiled WASM larger than the source code, and sometimes only slightly small, and then some amazingly smaller.  So much will depend on so many implementation details...

--
Richard Gaskin
Fourth World Systems


From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Oct 12 12:19:41 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 18:19:41 +0200
Subject: Windows Standalone strands windows tasks
In-Reply-To: <SJ0PR02MB7533F0AE31AA9A3E67B47373B2D3A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533F0AE31AA9A3E67B47373B2D3A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <632618A9-F5A1-4245-BC4D-4B87C943F220@major-k.de>

Hi Bob,

> Am 12.10.2023 um 17:36 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi all.
> 
> I have a standalone that uses a splash stack, which upon launch displays a startup graphic, then hides itself and opens the mainstack of my project. On MacOS when I "quit" the entire application quits. On Windows however the splash stack (which is the stack the standalone is built from) keeps running, and if I re-launch the standalone it creates a second instance of the app in memory.
> 
> How do I get the standalone to quit when I close the mainstack in Windows?

add this to the script your mainstack:
-------------------------
on closestack
  close stack "your splash stack here"
  ## do more closestack stuff
end closestack
-------------------------
That should do the trick.

Hint:
To avoid this "Windows feature:
>> if I re-launch the standalone it creates a second instance of the app in memory.
add a dummy handler to your standalone/splash stack script:
-------------------------
on relaunch
   ## NADA!
end relaunch
-------------------------

> Bob S

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Thu Oct 12 12:39:25 2023
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 12:39:25 -0400
Subject: Questions on Wasm export, licenses and file siz
In-Reply-To: <bc403825e4859c15ac1ce40f4e17acd098cf6d7e@fourthworld.com>
References: <bc403825e4859c15ac1ce40f4e17acd098cf6d7e@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <008e01d9fd2a$ac0087f0$040197d0$@net>

ambassador at fourthworld.com wrote:

"JS is the only interactive language included in browsers.  The best time to
learn it was yesterday. The second best time is today."

+1
My today was about 5 years ago. JS has been an asset to my workflow ever
since. Being able get JS callbacks and invoke JS from LC has opened many new
doors.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu Oct 12 12:42:34 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 16:42:34 +0000
Subject: Windows Standalone strands windows tasks
In-Reply-To: <632618A9-F5A1-4245-BC4D-4B87C943F220@major-k.de>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533F0AE31AA9A3E67B47373B2D3A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <632618A9-F5A1-4245-BC4D-4B87C943F220@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <SJ0PR02MB75335F1B8A9BA620BA744193B2D3A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>

Thanks I'll give that a try. I think I am already quitting the splash stack, because my MacOS works properly, but the second part I never knew about. Unfortunately my Apple laptop is in the shop so I won't be able to test until Monday. 

Bob S 

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> On Behalf Of Klaus major-k via use-livecode
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2023 9:20 AM
To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Cc: Klaus major-k <klaus at major-k.de>
Subject: Re: Windows Standalone strands windows tasks

Hi Bob,

> Am 12.10.2023 um 17:36 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi all.
> 
> I have a standalone that uses a splash stack, which upon launch displays a startup graphic, then hides itself and opens the mainstack of my project. On MacOS when I "quit" the entire application quits. On Windows however the splash stack (which is the stack the standalone is built from) keeps running, and if I re-launch the standalone it creates a second instance of the app in memory.
> 
> How do I get the standalone to quit when I close the mainstack in Windows?

add this to the script your mainstack:
-------------------------
on closestack
  close stack "your splash stack here"
  ## do more closestack stuff
end closestack
-------------------------
That should do the trick.

Hint:
To avoid this "Windows feature:
>> if I re-launch the standalone it creates a second instance of the app in memory.
add a dummy handler to your standalone/splash stack script:
-------------------------
on relaunch
   ## NADA!
end relaunch
-------------------------

> Bob S

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de


_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bvlahos at mac.com  Thu Oct 12 13:10:25 2023
From: bvlahos at mac.com (Bill Vlahos)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 10:10:25 -0700
Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <EF774AE9-5843-455E-87D7-1A0D50AEEA31@livecode.com>
References: <mailman.1.1696089601.89108.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <B4839189-B0EC-4D3F-AB4B-2C04F0EB0563@uzh.ch>
 <8B04CB3A-EE65-4346-BC42-B5A10E599003@livecode.com>
 <05A7E909-CE87-47A0-B288-ADEB8F18643C@m-r-d.de>
 <EF774AE9-5843-455E-87D7-1A0D50AEEA31@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <20EC1E2E-1619-4F1D-AA81-0907042C6357@mac.com>

Heather,

Do you think Apple will address this issue in an update to Sonoma?

Rebuilding all my applications will be difficult.

Thank you,
Bill Vlahos

> On Oct 3, 2023, at 6:56 AM, Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Matthias,
> 
> I think ANY menu will cause a crash. |f your app has no menus it will not be affected by the issue. Otherwise, it will crash, as does LiveCode itself  prior to the fix.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On 3 Oct 2023, at 11:53, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Heather,
>> 
>> thanks for clarifying the reason for the crashes.
>> 
>> At least this grants that standalones created with older LC versions will run as long as they do not contain a customized menu, right?
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Matthias
>> 
>> 
>>> Am 03.10.2023 um 12:24 schrieb Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> Hi Rolf,
>>> 
>>> No, the problem is not related to signing. The problem centers on how Sonoma handles menus, and any app that contains a menu will crash on Sonoma unless built with LiveCode 9.6.10 or 10 dp-6.
>>> 
>>> Best Regards,
>>> 
>>> Heather
>>> 
>>> Heather Laine
>>> Customer Services Manager
>>> LiveCode Ltd
>>> www.livecode.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 3 Oct 2023, at 09:53, Rolf Kocherhans via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> @Matthias and the Mothership,
>>>> 
>>>> My Apple Developer account expired several years ago, and I'm facing a critical issue with one of my LiveCode Apps, Clarify, developed by Trevor DeVore. This app is extremely important to me.
>>>> 
>>>> Unfortunately, Clarify is no longer actively developed and has started crashing with Sonoma. I am wondering if there's a possibility to resolve this issue by signing the bundles. I am more than willing to invest in a new subscription with Apple if that's what it takes – I can't imagine my work without Clarify.
>>>> 
>>>> Could someone please test if signing the bundles might make an app functional again?
>>>> Your assistance in this matter would mean the world to me.
>>>> 
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Rolf
>>>> 
>>>> Am 30.09.2023 um 18:00 schrieb use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com:
>>>> 
>>>> Maybe my observation is not the reason for the crash. Would really not make sense, when an unsigned app would crash instead of reporting an alert.
>>>> 
>>>> But code signing  the complete Livecode app bundle would proof it.
>>>> 
>>>> Did someone btw had a look at the system log file after the crash?
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From david.bovill at gmail.com  Thu Oct 12 15:16:40 2023
From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 20:16:40 +0100
Subject: Questions on Wasm export, licenses and file siz
In-Reply-To: <bc403825e4859c15ac1ce40f4e17acd098cf6d7e@fourthworld.com>
References: <bc403825e4859c15ac1ce40f4e17acd098cf6d7e@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <CAGASioPB6ug9EJGC6NqiKv_LBBR78foRyB_1ygc+QTeeFKFCSA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Richard specifically I need to know if I create an web page with
multiple HTML5  export embeds whether the Livecode wasm approach forces the
engine to be exported multiple times.

On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 at 17:09, ambassador--- via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> David Bovill wrote:
> > With the old JavaScript export you had a separation between the engine
> > and stacks such that you could cache the engine part in the browser to
> > speed up the loading of the much smaller stacks. Is that the case (or
> > it is intended to be the case in the future) with the wasm export?
>
> A couple years ago Andre outlined the differences between JS and WASM,
> worth reviewing:
> https://www.mail-archive.com/use-livecode%40lists.runrev.com/msg111108.html
>
> With your background you're probably well aware of the differences, but
> since we see so many conceptualizing WASM as "compiled JavaScript" it's
> worth taking a moment to review their respective boundaries.
>
> Given that WASM has no direct access to the DOM, and therefore no direct
> manipulation of controls or events, it is not a drop-in replacement for JS.
>
> In LC terms, it may be best to think about WASM's relationship to the
> browser as similar to what externals are to LC.
>
> Of course externals are very powerful; most of the v8 bullet points were
> new externals. But they still need LC Script to interface with our apps.
>
> The degree to which LC Ltd will be able to compile the whole engine into
> WASM is a good question, but it seems clear it will be limited in some
> ways, and it's unlikely we'll see compilation of LC Script to WASM for the
> foreseeable future.
>
> The good news is that the LC Community has a growing body of knowledge
> around JavaScript: some of the cooler widgets are just wrappers around a
> browser instance running JS/HTML/CSS.  And given the vast amounts of
> web-native (JS/HTML/CSS) code out in the world, folks are continually
> finding new ways to integrate the native web stack with LC stack objects
> nicely.
>
> If web deployment is the goal, I see no downside and much to be gained
> from spending more time practicing JavaScript. While different from xTalk,
> it's a good language, and arguably closer to what xTalk might have looked
> like if HyperCard premiered 10 years later than it did.
>
> Being comfortable with JS means being able to fill in gaps between your LC
> work and LC's web export more easily, and even within LC today it's the
> gateway to vast components via the browser widget.
>
> JS is the only interactive language included in browsers.  The best time
> to learn it was yesterday. The second best time is today.
>
> Like AppleScript, PowerShell, bash, and others, learning other languages
> opens new doors for integrating LC across a wide variety of systems.
>
> Bonus: the more you learn JS, the less you need to wait for with the
> feature completion in LC's web export.
>
> As for your question about deployment size, we can expect a WASMified
> engine to be smaller than its JS version, but there are so many factors
> that go into that it may just be too early to tell.
>
> If you do a web search for "WASM replace JavaScript" you'll not only get
> deeper discussions than what I've offered here, but also some confounding
> benchmarks where it's possible to have compiled WASM larger than the source
> code, and sometimes only slightly small, and then some amazingly smaller.
> So much will depend on so many implementation details...
>
> --
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Oct 12 16:37:14 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 15:37:14 -0500
Subject: Android: Myapp stopped
In-Reply-To: <1606522B-12FB-4A06-9672-42801556D1C8@major-k.de>
References: <1606522B-12FB-4A06-9672-42801556D1C8@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <26bd222d-1014-4025-a1fe-8e4a431301f0@hyperactivesw.com>

What minimum Android version is set in Standalone Settings? Does it include Android 6?

On 10/12/23 8:35 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi friends,
> 
> I am trying to install my app on the tablets of my bandmembers
> and succeeded on all but one!?
> 
> Info:
> Samsung Galaxy Tab S
> Android 6.0.1, API 23
> 
> After installation from LC (Test) I tap on the icon and get the alert:
> -> Leadsheeter stopped (angehalten)
> immediately, no more info.
> 
> I already emptied cache and data and whatnot and even restarted
> the device a couple of times, no dice!?
> 
> The only info I could get after starting Android Studio was in the
> "Device File Explorer" panel for the device which reads:
> ----------------------------------------
> data -> app -> com.major-k.de.leadsheeter-1
> run-as: Could not set capabilities: Operation not permitted
> ----------------------------------------
> API too old? Anything else I can check in Android Studio?
> 
> Any hints very welcome!
> 
> Thanks a lot in advance.
> 
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From heather at livecode.com  Fri Oct 13 04:36:45 2023
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 09:36:45 +0100
Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <20EC1E2E-1619-4F1D-AA81-0907042C6357@mac.com>
References: <mailman.1.1696089601.89108.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <B4839189-B0EC-4D3F-AB4B-2C04F0EB0563@uzh.ch>
 <8B04CB3A-EE65-4346-BC42-B5A10E599003@livecode.com>
 <05A7E909-CE87-47A0-B288-ADEB8F18643C@m-r-d.de>
 <EF774AE9-5843-455E-87D7-1A0D50AEEA31@livecode.com>
 <20EC1E2E-1619-4F1D-AA81-0907042C6357@mac.com>
Message-ID: <252DBA11-1A8B-41E3-93DA-DC2ED08A7274@livecode.com>

I don't think you can hope for that. It's not a bug, its a change in the way they are implementing menus.

Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 12 Oct 2023, at 18:10, Bill Vlahos <bvlahos at mac.com> wrote:
> 
> Heather,
> 
> Do you think Apple will address this issue in an update to Sonoma?
> 
> Rebuilding all my applications will be difficult.
> 
> Thank you,
> Bill Vlahos
> 
>> On Oct 3, 2023, at 6:56 AM, Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Matthias,
>> 
>> I think ANY menu will cause a crash. |f your app has no menus it will not be affected by the issue. Otherwise, it will crash, as does LiveCode itself  prior to the fix.
>> 
>> Best Regards,
>> 
>> Heather
>> 
>> Heather Laine
>> Customer Services Manager
>> LiveCode Ltd
>> www.livecode.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 3 Oct 2023, at 11:53, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Heather,
>>> 
>>> thanks for clarifying the reason for the crashes.
>>> 
>>> At least this grants that standalones created with older LC versions will run as long as they do not contain a customized menu, right?
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Matthias
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Am 03.10.2023 um 12:24 schrieb Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Rolf,
>>>> 
>>>> No, the problem is not related to signing. The problem centers on how Sonoma handles menus, and any app that contains a menu will crash on Sonoma unless built with LiveCode 9.6.10 or 10 dp-6.
>>>> 
>>>> Best Regards,
>>>> 
>>>> Heather
>>>> 
>>>> Heather Laine
>>>> Customer Services Manager
>>>> LiveCode Ltd
>>>> www.livecode.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On 3 Oct 2023, at 09:53, Rolf Kocherhans via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> @Matthias and the Mothership,
>>>>> 
>>>>> My Apple Developer account expired several years ago, and I'm facing a critical issue with one of my LiveCode Apps, Clarify, developed by Trevor DeVore. This app is extremely important to me.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Unfortunately, Clarify is no longer actively developed and has started crashing with Sonoma. I am wondering if there's a possibility to resolve this issue by signing the bundles. I am more than willing to invest in a new subscription with Apple if that's what it takes – I can't imagine my work without Clarify.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Could someone please test if signing the bundles might make an app functional again?
>>>>> Your assistance in this matter would mean the world to me.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Rolf
>>>>> 
>>>>> Am 30.09.2023 um 18:00 schrieb use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Maybe my observation is not the reason for the crash. Would really not make sense, when an unsigned app would crash instead of reporting an alert.
>>>>> 
>>>>> But code signing  the complete Livecode app bundle would proof it.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Did someone btw had a look at the system log file after the crash?
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 


From klaus at major-k.de  Fri Oct 13 04:48:10 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 10:48:10 +0200
Subject: Android: Myapp stopped
In-Reply-To: <26bd222d-1014-4025-a1fe-8e4a431301f0@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <1606522B-12FB-4A06-9672-42801556D1C8@major-k.de>
 <26bd222d-1014-4025-a1fe-8e4a431301f0@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <EA7DA380-CC5C-4931-8A64-0A66CD413A45@major-k.de>

Hi Jacque,

> Am 12.10.2023 um 22:37 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> What minimum Android version is set in Standalone Settings? Does it include Android 6?

it is set to 5, so yes, it should include version 6.

> On 10/12/23 8:35 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hi friends,
>> I am trying to install my app on the tablets of my bandmembers
>> and succeeded on all but one!?
>> Info:
>> Samsung Galaxy Tab S
>> Android 6.0.1, API 23
>> After installation from LC (Test) I tap on the icon and get the alert:
>> -> Leadsheeter stopped (angehalten)
>> immediately, no more info.
>> I already emptied cache and data and whatnot and even restarted
>> the device a couple of times, no dice!?
>> The only info I could get after starting Android Studio was in the
>> "Device File Explorer" panel for the device which reads:
>> ----------------------------------------
>> data -> app -> com.major-k.de.leadsheeter-1
>> run-as: Could not set capabilities: Operation not permitted
>> ----------------------------------------
>> API too old? Anything else I can check in Android Studio?
>> Any hints very welcome!
>> Thanks a lot in advance.
>> Best

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From david.bovill at gmail.com  Fri Oct 13 09:09:05 2023
From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 14:09:05 +0100
Subject: Questions on Wasm export, licenses and file siz
In-Reply-To: <CAGASioPB6ug9EJGC6NqiKv_LBBR78foRyB_1ygc+QTeeFKFCSA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bc403825e4859c15ac1ce40f4e17acd098cf6d7e@fourthworld.com>
 <CAGASioPB6ug9EJGC6NqiKv_LBBR78foRyB_1ygc+QTeeFKFCSA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGASioMPdx=Yu59TQdSnuGFVn0JHTdSe65yHforHLgZFvoPBdA@mail.gmail.com>

Lets take the following scenario:

1) We have a library of interactive components created in Livecode.  They
are structured as (Levure) components. They could be turned into script
components easily, or LCB based components with a little more work.
2) We wish to compose a series of apps based on these components in which
3-15 of them interact with each other on any given screen.
3) We can prototype and deliver these apps in a Livecode based prototype.
4) There is a project need for an advanced architecture that engages the
enthusiasm of University students and the wider developer community. We
therefore require a strategy that enables developers in a range of modern
language - particularly rust, javascript and python to participate.
5) It is a long term project - so we can take out time and wait for
technologies to mature. However we wish to deliver rapid prototypes that
can be tested with communities in the short term.

Given the above I’d like to be able to prototype the software(s) by
exporting these Livecode (Levure-style) components as wasm - and embed
these on web pages in which they communicate with each other securely.
Components that need speeding up, or reduced in file size once tested may
be rewritten eventually in another language.

My concern is:

- having several wasm components on a single web view will involve
multiplying the quite large engine download for each component?
- which licence will be required so that these wasm components over the
duration of the project?

On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 at 20:16, David Bovill <david.bovill at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Richard specifically I need to know if I create an web page with
> multiple HTML5  export embeds whether the Livecode wasm approach forces the
> engine to be exported multiple times.
>
> On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 at 17:09, ambassador--- via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> David Bovill wrote:
>> > With the old JavaScript export you had a separation between the engine
>> > and stacks such that you could cache the engine part in the browser to
>> > speed up the loading of the much smaller stacks. Is that the case (or
>> > it is intended to be the case in the future) with the wasm export?
>>
>> A couple years ago Andre outlined the differences between JS and WASM,
>> worth reviewing:
>>
>> https://www.mail-archive.com/use-livecode%40lists.runrev.com/msg111108.html
>>
>> With your background you're probably well aware of the differences, but
>> since we see so many conceptualizing WASM as "compiled JavaScript" it's
>> worth taking a moment to review their respective boundaries.
>>
>> Given that WASM has no direct access to the DOM, and therefore no direct
>> manipulation of controls or events, it is not a drop-in replacement for JS.
>>
>> In LC terms, it may be best to think about WASM's relationship to the
>> browser as similar to what externals are to LC.
>>
>> Of course externals are very powerful; most of the v8 bullet points were
>> new externals. But they still need LC Script to interface with our apps.
>>
>> The degree to which LC Ltd will be able to compile the whole engine into
>> WASM is a good question, but it seems clear it will be limited in some
>> ways, and it's unlikely we'll see compilation of LC Script to WASM for the
>> foreseeable future.
>>
>> The good news is that the LC Community has a growing body of knowledge
>> around JavaScript: some of the cooler widgets are just wrappers around a
>> browser instance running JS/HTML/CSS.  And given the vast amounts of
>> web-native (JS/HTML/CSS) code out in the world, folks are continually
>> finding new ways to integrate the native web stack with LC stack objects
>> nicely.
>>
>> If web deployment is the goal, I see no downside and much to be gained
>> from spending more time practicing JavaScript. While different from xTalk,
>> it's a good language, and arguably closer to what xTalk might have looked
>> like if HyperCard premiered 10 years later than it did.
>>
>> Being comfortable with JS means being able to fill in gaps between your
>> LC work and LC's web export more easily, and even within LC today it's the
>> gateway to vast components via the browser widget.
>>
>> JS is the only interactive language included in browsers.  The best time
>> to learn it was yesterday. The second best time is today.
>>
>> Like AppleScript, PowerShell, bash, and others, learning other languages
>> opens new doors for integrating LC across a wide variety of systems.
>>
>> Bonus: the more you learn JS, the less you need to wait for with the
>> feature completion in LC's web export.
>>
>> As for your question about deployment size, we can expect a WASMified
>> engine to be smaller than its JS version, but there are so many factors
>> that go into that it may just be too early to tell.
>>
>> If you do a web search for "WASM replace JavaScript" you'll not only get
>> deeper discussions than what I've offered here, but also some confounding
>> benchmarks where it's possible to have compiled WASM larger than the source
>> code, and sometimes only slightly small, and then some amazingly smaller.
>> So much will depend on so many implementation details...
>>
>> --
>> Richard Gaskin
>> Fourth World Systems
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Oct 13 11:41:32 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 10:41:32 -0500
Subject: Android: Myapp stopped
In-Reply-To: <EA7DA380-CC5C-4931-8A64-0A66CD413A45@major-k.de>
References: <1606522B-12FB-4A06-9672-42801556D1C8@major-k.de>
 <26bd222d-1014-4025-a1fe-8e4a431301f0@hyperactivesw.com>
 <EA7DA380-CC5C-4931-8A64-0A66CD413A45@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <18b29b333e0.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

I looked it up. It's a Samsung bug:
<https://stackoverflow.com/questions/37413667/run-as-could-not-set-capabilities-operation-not-permitted/47004505#47004505>

If you Google "Could not set capabilities: Operation not permitted " you'll 
see lots of results.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On October 13, 2023 3:49:32 AM Klaus major-k via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Jacque,
>
>> Am 12.10.2023 um 22:37 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>
>> What minimum Android version is set in Standalone Settings? Does it include 
>> Android 6?
>
> it is set to 5, so yes, it should include version 6.
>
>> On 10/12/23 8:35 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Hi friends,
>>> I am trying to install my app on the tablets of my bandmembers
>>> and succeeded on all but one!?
>>> Info:
>>> Samsung Galaxy Tab S
>>> Android 6.0.1, API 23
>>> After installation from LC (Test) I tap on the icon and get the alert:
>>> -> Leadsheeter stopped (angehalten)
>>> immediately, no more info.
>>> I already emptied cache and data and whatnot and even restarted
>>> the device a couple of times, no dice!?
>>> The only info I could get after starting Android Studio was in the
>>> "Device File Explorer" panel for the device which reads:
>>> ----------------------------------------
>>> data -> app -> com.major-k.de.leadsheeter-1
>>> run-as: Could not set capabilities: Operation not permitted
>>> ----------------------------------------
>>> API too old? Anything else I can check in Android Studio?
>>> Any hints very welcome!
>>> Thanks a lot in advance.
>>> Best
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
>
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From klaus at major-k.de  Fri Oct 13 11:50:02 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 17:50:02 +0200
Subject: Android: Myapp stopped
In-Reply-To: <18b29b333e0.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <1606522B-12FB-4A06-9672-42801556D1C8@major-k.de>
 <26bd222d-1014-4025-a1fe-8e4a431301f0@hyperactivesw.com>
 <EA7DA380-CC5C-4931-8A64-0A66CD413A45@major-k.de>
 <18b29b333e0.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <459C0F41-5D59-47D1-AA6E-74233478B5CF@major-k.de>

Hi Jacque,

> Am 13.10.2023 um 17:41 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> I looked it up. It's a Samsung bug:
> <https://stackoverflow.com/questions/37413667/run-as-could-not-set-capabilities-operation-not-permitted/47004505#47004505>
> If you Google "Could not set capabilities: Operation not permitted " you'll see lots of results.

thank you for this valuable info!
Too bad...

So it means the Samsung tablets with earlier versions of Android/API have this problem?
Our drummer and me also have Samsung tablets, but with Android 8.x resp Android 11.

> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On October 13, 2023 3:49:32 AM Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Jacque,
>> 
>>> Am 12.10.2023 um 22:37 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> What minimum Android version is set in Standalone Settings? Does it include Android 6?
>> 
>> it is set to 5, so yes, it should include version 6.
>> 
>>> On 10/12/23 8:35 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> Hi friends,
>>>> I am trying to install my app on the tablets of my bandmembers
>>>> and succeeded on all but one!?
>>>> Info:
>>>> Samsung Galaxy Tab S
>>>> Android 6.0.1, API 23
>>>> After installation from LC (Test) I tap on the icon and get the alert:
>>>> -> Leadsheeter stopped (angehalten)
>>>> immediately, no more info.
>>>> I already emptied cache and data and whatnot and even restarted
>>>> the device a couple of times, no dice!?
>>>> The only info I could get after starting Android Studio was in the
>>>> "Device File Explorer" panel for the device which reads:
>>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>> data -> app -> com.major-k.de.leadsheeter-1
>>>> run-as: Could not set capabilities: Operation not permitted
>>>> ----------------------------------------

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Oct 13 12:24:21 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 11:24:21 -0500
Subject: Android: Myapp stopped
In-Reply-To: <459C0F41-5D59-47D1-AA6E-74233478B5CF@major-k.de>
References: <1606522B-12FB-4A06-9672-42801556D1C8@major-k.de>
 <26bd222d-1014-4025-a1fe-8e4a431301f0@hyperactivesw.com>
 <EA7DA380-CC5C-4931-8A64-0A66CD413A45@major-k.de>
 <18b29b333e0.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <459C0F41-5D59-47D1-AA6E-74233478B5CF@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <18b29da6708.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

Yes, it seems like the bug was fixed in later versions. There are some 
workarounds in the stackoverflow link using terminal but I didn't 
understand them.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On October 13, 2023 10:51:26 AM Klaus major-k via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Jacque,
>
>> Am 13.10.2023 um 17:41 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>
>> I looked it up. It's a Samsung bug:
>> <https://stackoverflow.com/questions/37413667/run-as-could-not-set-capabilities-operation-not-permitted/47004505#47004505>
>> If you Google "Could not set capabilities: Operation not permitted " you'll 
>> see lots of results.
>
> thank you for this valuable info!
> Too bad...
>
> So it means the Samsung tablets with earlier versions of Android/API have 
> this problem?
> Our drummer and me also have Samsung tablets, but with Android 8.x resp 
> Android 11.
>
>> --
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>> On October 13, 2023 3:49:32 AM Klaus major-k via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Jacque,
>>>
>>>> Am 12.10.2023 um 22:37 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>>
>>>> What minimum Android version is set in Standalone Settings? Does it include 
>>>> Android 6?
>>>
>>> it is set to 5, so yes, it should include version 6.
>>>
>>>> On 10/12/23 8:35 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>>>>> Hi friends,
>>>>> I am trying to install my app on the tablets of my bandmembers
>>>>> and succeeded on all but one!?
>>>>> Info:
>>>>> Samsung Galaxy Tab S
>>>>> Android 6.0.1, API 23
>>>>> After installation from LC (Test) I tap on the icon and get the alert:
>>>>> -> Leadsheeter stopped (angehalten)
>>>>> immediately, no more info.
>>>>> I already emptied cache and data and whatnot and even restarted
>>>>> the device a couple of times, no dice!?
>>>>> The only info I could get after starting Android Studio was in the
>>>>> "Device File Explorer" panel for the device which reads:
>>>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>>> data -> app -> com.major-k.de.leadsheeter-1
>>>>> run-as: Could not set capabilities: Operation not permitted
>>>>> ----------------------------------------
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
>
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From klaus at major-k.de  Fri Oct 13 12:27:52 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 18:27:52 +0200
Subject: Android: Myapp stopped
In-Reply-To: <18b29da6708.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <1606522B-12FB-4A06-9672-42801556D1C8@major-k.de>
 <26bd222d-1014-4025-a1fe-8e4a431301f0@hyperactivesw.com>
 <EA7DA380-CC5C-4931-8A64-0A66CD413A45@major-k.de>
 <18b29b333e0.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <459C0F41-5D59-47D1-AA6E-74233478B5CF@major-k.de>
 <18b29da6708.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <3082E076-4503-4B9F-84CF-DC111576C415@major-k.de>

Hi Jaqcue,

> Am 13.10.2023 um 18:24 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Yes, it seems like the bug was fixed in later versions.

ah, thank you, I guessed.
So bad news for our guitarplayer/singer...

> There are some workarounds in the stackoverflow link using terminal but I didn't understand them.

Same here, so I wouldn't even try this! :-D

> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On October 13, 2023 10:51:26 AM Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Jacque,
>> 
>>> Am 13.10.2023 um 17:41 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> I looked it up. It's a Samsung bug:
>>> <https://stackoverflow.com/questions/37413667/run-as-could-not-set-capabilities-operation-not-permitted/47004505#47004505>
>>> If you Google "Could not set capabilities: Operation not permitted " you'll see lots of results.
>> 
>> thank you for this valuable info!
>> Too bad...
>> 
>> So it means the Samsung tablets with earlier versions of Android/API have this problem?
>> Our drummer and me also have Samsung tablets, but with Android 8.x resp Android 11.

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Oct 13 12:32:50 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 16:32:50 +0000
Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <252DBA11-1A8B-41E3-93DA-DC2ED08A7274@livecode.com>
References: <mailman.1.1696089601.89108.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <B4839189-B0EC-4D3F-AB4B-2C04F0EB0563@uzh.ch>
 <8B04CB3A-EE65-4346-BC42-B5A10E599003@livecode.com>
 <05A7E909-CE87-47A0-B288-ADEB8F18643C@m-r-d.de>
 <EF774AE9-5843-455E-87D7-1A0D50AEEA31@livecode.com>
 <20EC1E2E-1619-4F1D-AA81-0907042C6357@mac.com>
 <252DBA11-1A8B-41E3-93DA-DC2ED08A7274@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <SJ0PR02MB753347D5EBBD0207247ECE66B2D2A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>

Heather, just to be clear, I was under the implression that 9.6.10 and 10.0.6 WAS the fix for this. 

Bob S


-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> On Behalf Of Heather Laine via use-livecode
Sent: Friday, October 13, 2023 1:37 AM
To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Cc: Heather Laine <heather at livecode.com>
Subject: Re: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma

I don't think you can hope for that. It's not a bug, its a change in the way they are implementing menus.

Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Oct 13 13:46:14 2023
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 10:46:14 -0700
Subject: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
In-Reply-To: <SJ0PR02MB753347D5EBBD0207247ECE66B2D2A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB753347D5EBBD0207247ECE66B2D2A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <d1f9f298-bff7-4108-97e0-3d3efda4bbec@fourthworld.com>

We see it here in this list. We see it in the forums. We see it wherever 
app deployment is discussed:

OS requirements for packaging/stapling/signing apps are onerous.

At the edge of, and sometimes exceeding, being prohibitively so.

There's no point in making a standalone if you can't ship it.

If pro devs with decades of experience struggle with this, newcomers 
will run screaming.

SIMPLIFYING DEPLOYMENT IS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY.

Pardon the all-caps. I rarely use them. But this is important.

Simplifying deployment is more important than "AI".
Simplifying deployment is more important than "nocode".

It is the single biggest pain point.

And so it is the single biggest opportunity.

Fulfill the promise of "Everyone can code": focus on simplifying deployment.

Step 1: Acquire Matthias' great tool.

Step 2: Enhance it for current requirements across platforms.

Step 3: Look for every opportunity to further simplify the process, and 
take it, at least one more simplification with each new build.

This is important. It really is.

--

And no, web export will not magically save things.  Even when that 
becomes truly production-ready, it's only for web apps.  Not everything 
needs to be a web app.

There are a hundred ways to make web apps.

There are few ways to make cross-platform native apps.

And almost none that rival what LC can do on the desktop.

Play into strengths.  Make native deployment the best it can be.

When that's done, only then resume work on more peripheral features.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems


From klaus at major-k.de  Fri Oct 13 13:52:56 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 19:52:56 +0200
Subject: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
In-Reply-To: <d1f9f298-bff7-4108-97e0-3d3efda4bbec@fourthworld.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB753347D5EBBD0207247ECE66B2D2A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <d1f9f298-bff7-4108-97e0-3d3efda4bbec@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <31F57AB1-44B9-4E7E-8F5C-8297C373F4C7@major-k.de>

Bravo, Richard, you are so right, bravo!

> Am 13.10.2023 um 19:46 schrieb Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> We see it here in this list. We see it in the forums. We see it wherever app deployment is discussed:
> OS requirements for packaging/stapling/signing apps are onerous.
> At the edge of, and sometimes exceeding, being prohibitively so.
> There's no point in making a standalone if you can't ship it.
> If pro devs with decades of experience struggle with this, newcomers will run screaming.
> SIMPLIFYING DEPLOYMENT IS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY.
> Pardon the all-caps. I rarely use them. But this is important.
> Simplifying deployment is more important than "AI".
> Simplifying deployment is more important than "nocode".
> It is the single biggest pain point.
> And so it is the single biggest opportunity.
> Fulfill the promise of "Everyone can code": focus on simplifying deployment.
> Step 1: Acquire Matthias' great tool.
> Step 2: Enhance it for current requirements across platforms.
> Step 3: Look for every opportunity to further simplify the process, and take it, at least one more simplification with each new build.
> This is important. It really is.
> --
> And no, web export will not magically save things.  Even when that becomes truly production-ready, it's only for web apps.  Not everything needs to be a web app.
> There are a hundred ways to make web apps.
> There are few ways to make cross-platform native apps.
> And almost none that rival what LC can do on the desktop.
> Play into strengths.  Make native deployment the best it can be.
> When that's done, only then resume work on more peripheral features.
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Fri Oct 13 13:58:39 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 19:58:39 +0200
Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <SJ0PR02MB753347D5EBBD0207247ECE66B2D2A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
References: <mailman.1.1696089601.89108.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <B4839189-B0EC-4D3F-AB4B-2C04F0EB0563@uzh.ch>
 <8B04CB3A-EE65-4346-BC42-B5A10E599003@livecode.com>
 <05A7E909-CE87-47A0-B288-ADEB8F18643C@m-r-d.de>
 <EF774AE9-5843-455E-87D7-1A0D50AEEA31@livecode.com>
 <20EC1E2E-1619-4F1D-AA81-0907042C6357@mac.com>
 <252DBA11-1A8B-41E3-93DA-DC2ED08A7274@livecode.com>
 <SJ0PR02MB753347D5EBBD0207247ECE66B2D2A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <9C6A780E-CFD1-41F7-AE6D-623BC6587153@m-r-d.de>

Yes that is definitely the case.

But Bill asked if Apple will "fix that in Sonoma" so his old standalones will still work under Sonoma without building them again with 9.6.10 or 10.0.6. At least that was my understanding. ;) 



> Am 13.10.2023 um 18:32 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Heather, just to be clear, I was under the implression that 9.6.10 and 10.0.6 WAS the fix for this. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> On Behalf Of Heather Laine via use-livecode
> Sent: Friday, October 13, 2023 1:37 AM
> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Cc: Heather Laine <heather at livecode.com>
> Subject: Re: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
> 
> I don't think you can hope for that. It's not a bug, its a change in the way they are implementing menus.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org  Fri Oct 13 14:49:02 2023
From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (William Prothero)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 11:49:02 -0700
Subject: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
In-Reply-To: <d1f9f298-bff7-4108-97e0-3d3efda4bbec@fourthworld.com>
References: <d1f9f298-bff7-4108-97e0-3d3efda4bbec@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <E799CDE3-52E4-4079-B805-8A294830E347@earthlearningsolutions.org>

I second (3rd and 4th too) Richard's plea. Deployment is a killer.
Bill

William A. Prothero, PhD
Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science
University of California, Santa Barbara

> On Oct 13, 2023, at 10:47 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> We see it here in this list. We see it in the forums. We see it wherever app deployment is discussed:
> 
> OS requirements for packaging/stapling/signing apps are onerous.
> 
> At the edge of, and sometimes exceeding, being prohibitively so.
> 
> There's no point in making a standalone if you can't ship it.
> 
> If pro devs with decades of experience struggle with this, newcomers will run screaming.
> 
> SIMPLIFYING DEPLOYMENT IS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY.
> 
> Pardon the all-caps. I rarely use them. But this is important.
> 
> Simplifying deployment is more important than "AI".
> Simplifying deployment is more important than "nocode".
> 
> It is the single biggest pain point.
> 
> And so it is the single biggest opportunity.
> 
> Fulfill the promise of "Everyone can code": focus on simplifying deployment.
> 
> Step 1: Acquire Matthias' great tool.
> 
> Step 2: Enhance it for current requirements across platforms.
> 
> Step 3: Look for every opportunity to further simplify the process, and take it, at least one more simplification with each new build.
> 
> This is important. It really is.
> 
> --
> 
> And no, web export will not magically save things.  Even when that becomes truly production-ready, it's only for web apps.  Not everything needs to be a web app.
> 
> There are a hundred ways to make web apps.
> 
> There are few ways to make cross-platform native apps.
> 
> And almost none that rival what LC can do on the desktop.
> 
> Play into strengths.  Make native deployment the best it can be.
> 
> When that's done, only then resume work on more peripheral features.
> 
> --
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Fri Oct 13 14:59:04 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 19:59:04 +0100
Subject: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
In-Reply-To: <E799CDE3-52E4-4079-B805-8A294830E347@earthlearningsolutions.org>
References: <d1f9f298-bff7-4108-97e0-3d3efda4bbec@fourthworld.com>
 <E799CDE3-52E4-4079-B805-8A294830E347@earthlearningsolutions.org>
Message-ID: <956F1EE0-505D-4128-ABBB-D648A9314F8D@gmail.com>

+1, 

I totally agree this is really important (and really hard to keep up with). But Apple should take some of the responsibility for this. With the resources at their disposal they should be able to create a simpler and easier way to execute deployment without sacrificing security and authenticity. 

Very well said. I should add that I have also been using Kee Nethery’s instructions for signing Mac apps and it has been a godsend. I have not quite yet gotten to the point of deploying to the App Store (with it) but that will be the next step.

Mark


> On 13 Oct 2023, at 7:49 pm, William Prothero via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I second (3rd and 4th too) Richard's plea. Deployment is a killer.
> Bill
> 
> William A. Prothero, PhD
> Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science
> University of California, Santa Barbara
> 
>> On Oct 13, 2023, at 10:47 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> We see it here in this list. We see it in the forums. We see it wherever app deployment is discussed:
>> 
>> OS requirements for packaging/stapling/signing apps are onerous.
>> 
>> At the edge of, and sometimes exceeding, being prohibitively so.
>> 
>> There's no point in making a standalone if you can't ship it.
>> 
>> If pro devs with decades of experience struggle with this, newcomers will run screaming.
>> 
>> SIMPLIFYING DEPLOYMENT IS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY.
>> 
>> Pardon the all-caps. I rarely use them. But this is important.
>> 
>> Simplifying deployment is more important than "AI".
>> Simplifying deployment is more important than "nocode".
>> 
>> It is the single biggest pain point.
>> 
>> And so it is the single biggest opportunity.
>> 
>> Fulfill the promise of "Everyone can code": focus on simplifying deployment.
>> 
>> Step 1: Acquire Matthias' great tool.
>> 
>> Step 2: Enhance it for current requirements across platforms.
>> 
>> Step 3: Look for every opportunity to further simplify the process, and take it, at least one more simplification with each new build.
>> 
>> This is important. It really is.
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> And no, web export will not magically save things.  Even when that becomes truly production-ready, it's only for web apps.  Not everything needs to be a web app.
>> 
>> There are a hundred ways to make web apps.
>> 
>> There are few ways to make cross-platform native apps.
>> 
>> And almost none that rival what LC can do on the desktop.
>> 
>> Play into strengths.  Make native deployment the best it can be.
>> 
>> When that's done, only then resume work on more peripheral features.
>> 
>> --
>> Richard Gaskin
>> Fourth World Systems
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From tom at makeshyft.com  Fri Oct 13 15:14:12 2023
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 15:14:12 -0400
Subject: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
In-Reply-To: <956F1EE0-505D-4128-ABBB-D648A9314F8D@gmail.com>
References: <d1f9f298-bff7-4108-97e0-3d3efda4bbec@fourthworld.com>
 <E799CDE3-52E4-4079-B805-8A294830E347@earthlearningsolutions.org>
 <956F1EE0-505D-4128-ABBB-D648A9314F8D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPzQJLJiL07-tnLUuj93AJ03219ophMBvOe6tUEppKSxxw3v+w@mail.gmail.com>

100% the biggest problem I have in my business.
Have been stuck on iOS for months.
Android and Windows is kind of OK, but still more can be done.
Agree. Would pay for a solution that just works.

On Fri, Oct 13, 2023 at 3:00 PM Mark Smith via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> +1,
>
> I totally agree this is really important (and really hard to keep up
> with). But Apple should take some of the responsibility for this. With the
> resources at their disposal they should be able to create a simpler and
> easier way to execute deployment without sacrificing security and
> authenticity.
>
> Very well said. I should add that I have also been using Kee Nethery’s
> instructions for signing Mac apps and it has been a godsend. I have not
> quite yet gotten to the point of deploying to the App Store (with it) but
> that will be the next step.
>
> Mark
>
>
> > On 13 Oct 2023, at 7:49 pm, William Prothero via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > I second (3rd and 4th too) Richard's plea. Deployment is a killer.
> > Bill
> >
> > William A. Prothero, PhD
> > Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science
> > University of California, Santa Barbara
> >
> >> On Oct 13, 2023, at 10:47 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> We see it here in this list. We see it in the forums. We see it
> wherever app deployment is discussed:
> >>
> >> OS requirements for packaging/stapling/signing apps are onerous.
> >>
> >> At the edge of, and sometimes exceeding, being prohibitively so.
> >>
> >> There's no point in making a standalone if you can't ship it.
> >>
> >> If pro devs with decades of experience struggle with this, newcomers
> will run screaming.
> >>
> >> SIMPLIFYING DEPLOYMENT IS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY.
> >>
> >> Pardon the all-caps. I rarely use them. But this is important.
> >>
> >> Simplifying deployment is more important than "AI".
> >> Simplifying deployment is more important than "nocode".
> >>
> >> It is the single biggest pain point.
> >>
> >> And so it is the single biggest opportunity.
> >>
> >> Fulfill the promise of "Everyone can code": focus on simplifying
> deployment.
> >>
> >> Step 1: Acquire Matthias' great tool.
> >>
> >> Step 2: Enhance it for current requirements across platforms.
> >>
> >> Step 3: Look for every opportunity to further simplify the process, and
> take it, at least one more simplification with each new build.
> >>
> >> This is important. It really is.
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> And no, web export will not magically save things.  Even when that
> becomes truly production-ready, it's only for web apps.  Not everything
> needs to be a web app.
> >>
> >> There are a hundred ways to make web apps.
> >>
> >> There are few ways to make cross-platform native apps.
> >>
> >> And almost none that rival what LC can do on the desktop.
> >>
> >> Play into strengths.  Make native deployment the best it can be.
> >>
> >> When that's done, only then resume work on more peripheral features.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Richard Gaskin
> >> Fourth World Systems
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From dan at clearvisiontech.com  Fri Oct 13 15:58:36 2023
From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 19:58:36 +0000
Subject: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
In-Reply-To: <CAPzQJLJiL07-tnLUuj93AJ03219ophMBvOe6tUEppKSxxw3v+w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d1f9f298-bff7-4108-97e0-3d3efda4bbec@fourthworld.com>
 <E799CDE3-52E4-4079-B805-8A294830E347@earthlearningsolutions.org>
 <956F1EE0-505D-4128-ABBB-D648A9314F8D@gmail.com>
 <CAPzQJLJiL07-tnLUuj93AJ03219ophMBvOe6tUEppKSxxw3v+w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BYAPR12MB27093D2F06C453A6F1B11FF5B9D2A@BYAPR12MB2709.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>

+1

I obviously agree!    I finally got my Mac app uploaded to the Mac Store (and approved)… but what a pain!!!   There are SO many steps that could easily be done by LiveCode that they have chosen to omit.   Simple things like generating the .ipa for iOS (this is a simple command line), having a place to enter the permission strings for Mac Desktop apps (this is a pain because you must build the app, then grab the generated plist, edit it, then include it in your app settings and then build it again.  Not hard, but this is something LC should provide in the Application Settings Window.  On that note, the “LSApplicationCategoryType” key (and category key) is not included in the generated plist.  I had to add it manually.  Apparently, this is now required.   I’m sure the great minds at LC could find a way to sign your app if you have the correct files installed and “fill in the blanks”.  They could probably do justified text too, but I won’t get into that!!  :)

Yes, this is hard to keep up with.  But isn’t that the whole point of a product like LiveCode?  The product is supposed to do the dirty work for you.

Although usually at the last second… LC is pretty good when it comes to keeping up with requirements with Apple and Android when the problem causes you to not be able to submit to the app stores or OS incompatibilities.  But in the case of the above examples, there are workarounds.  So, you are on your own.

-Dan


From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> on behalf of Tom Glod via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Date: Friday, October 13, 2023 at 12:15 PM
To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Cc: Tom Glod <tom at makeshyft.com>
Subject: Re: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
100% the biggest problem I have in my business.
Have been stuck on iOS for months.
Android and Windows is kind of OK, but still more can be done.
Agree. Would pay for a solution that just works.

On Fri, Oct 13, 2023 at 3:00 PM Mark Smith via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> +1,
>
> I totally agree this is really important (and really hard to keep up
> with). But Apple should take some of the responsibility for this. With the
> resources at their disposal they should be able to create a simpler and
> easier way to execute deployment without sacrificing security and
> authenticity.
>
> Very well said. I should add that I have also been using Kee Nethery’s
> instructions for signing Mac apps and it has been a godsend. I have not
> quite yet gotten to the point of deploying to the App Store (with it) but
> that will be the next step.
>
> Mark
>
>
> > On 13 Oct 2023, at 7:49 pm, William Prothero via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > I second (3rd and 4th too) Richard's plea. Deployment is a killer.
> > Bill
> >
> > William A. Prothero, PhD
> > Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science
> > University of California, Santa Barbara
> >
> >> On Oct 13, 2023, at 10:47 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> We see it here in this list. We see it in the forums. We see it
> wherever app deployment is discussed:
> >>
> >> OS requirements for packaging/stapling/signing apps are onerous.
> >>
> >> At the edge of, and sometimes exceeding, being prohibitively so.
> >>
> >> There's no point in making a standalone if you can't ship it.
> >>
> >> If pro devs with decades of experience struggle with this, newcomers
> will run screaming.
> >>
> >> SIMPLIFYING DEPLOYMENT IS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY.
> >>
> >> Pardon the all-caps. I rarely use them. But this is important.
> >>
> >> Simplifying deployment is more important than "AI".
> >> Simplifying deployment is more important than "nocode".
> >>
> >> It is the single biggest pain point.
> >>
> >> And so it is the single biggest opportunity.
> >>
> >> Fulfill the promise of "Everyone can code": focus on simplifying
> deployment.
> >>
> >> Step 1: Acquire Matthias' great tool.
> >>
> >> Step 2: Enhance it for current requirements across platforms.
> >>
> >> Step 3: Look for every opportunity to further simplify the process, and
> take it, at least one more simplification with each new build.
> >>
> >> This is important. It really is.
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> And no, web export will not magically save things.  Even when that
> becomes truly production-ready, it's only for web apps.  Not everything
> needs to be a web app.
> >>
> >> There are a hundred ways to make web apps.
> >>
> >> There are few ways to make cross-platform native apps.
> >>
> >> And almost none that rival what LC can do on the desktop.
> >>
> >> Play into strengths.  Make native deployment the best it can be.
> >>
> >> When that's done, only then resume work on more peripheral features.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Richard Gaskin
> >> Fourth World Systems
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
_______________________________________________
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use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

From paul at researchware.com  Fri Oct 13 16:01:31 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 16:01:31 -0400
Subject: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
In-Reply-To: <d1f9f298-bff7-4108-97e0-3d3efda4bbec@fourthworld.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB753347D5EBBD0207247ECE66B2D2A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <d1f9f298-bff7-4108-97e0-3d3efda4bbec@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <d2c606a5-fdec-2dab-c166-3d9d0fcd1ed6@researchware.com>

I'd love to see versions of Livecode stacks that assist with code 
signing and notarization for as many platforms as possible (I am aware 
of stacks for Windows and macOS) built into Livecode.

That said, for my two major problems (1 on macOS and 1 on Windows), I 
don't think there is anything Livecode could have done to help (other 
than lessons/documentation).

On Windows my current certificate - a .pfx format code signing cert - is 
expiring in November, so I renewed it. However, as of June 1 2023, the 
Windows code signing industry moved to requiring all code signing 
certificates to be issued on an encrypted USB token and you must use 
specialized software (that 3rd party can not hook into to prevent 
malware) to access those tokens to code sign.

On macOS, I needed to update code signing and NOTARIZATION to 
accommodate that Apple is switching to a new notary tool that only rns 
on new versions of macOS (I was using Mojave and atool) so I HAD (forced 
by Apple) for update to using the macBook Air I have that happened to 
have Sonoma on it and than meant Xcode 15 command line tools for the new 
Notary tool. atool stops being accepted by Apple some time in November 
so my old notarization steps will stop working. The change in notary 
tool was easy with Matthias's lessons and documentation on livecode.com. 
The problem was getting my Apple code signing certificates AND related 
certificates on to the MacBook air from the Apple Developer site, 
something I don't think Livecode can really help with.

Yes, others have had still other issues some of which improvements in 
Livecode might help address, but for the two I ran into that I turned to 
the list for help for, they were ultimately nothing that I think 
Livecode could help with.

Just my 2 cents on my 2 issues.


On 10/13/2023 1:46 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
> We see it here in this list. We see it in the forums. We see it 
> wherever app deployment is discussed:
>
> OS requirements for packaging/stapling/signing apps are onerous.
>
> At the edge of, and sometimes exceeding, being prohibitively so.
>
> There's no point in making a standalone if you can't ship it.
>
> If pro devs with decades of experience struggle with this, newcomers 
> will run screaming.
>
> SIMPLIFYING DEPLOYMENT IS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY.
>
> Pardon the all-caps. I rarely use them. But this is important.
>
> Simplifying deployment is more important than "AI".
> Simplifying deployment is more important than "nocode".
>
> It is the single biggest pain point.
>
> And so it is the single biggest opportunity.
>
> Fulfill the promise of "Everyone can code": focus on simplifying 
> deployment.
>
> Step 1: Acquire Matthias' great tool.
>
> Step 2: Enhance it for current requirements across platforms.
>
> Step 3: Look for every opportunity to further simplify the process, 
> and take it, at least one more simplification with each new build.
>
> This is important. It really is.
>
> -- 
>
> And no, web export will not magically save things.  Even when that 
> becomes truly production-ready, it's only for web apps.  Not 
> everything needs to be a web app.
>
> There are a hundred ways to make web apps.
>
> There are few ways to make cross-platform native apps.
>
> And almost none that rival what LC can do on the desktop.
>
> Play into strengths.  Make native deployment the best it can be.
>
> When that's done, only then resume work on more peripheral features.
>



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Oct 13 16:34:03 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 15:34:03 -0500
Subject: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
In-Reply-To: <d1f9f298-bff7-4108-97e0-3d3efda4bbec@fourthworld.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB753347D5EBBD0207247ECE66B2D2A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <d1f9f298-bff7-4108-97e0-3d3efda4bbec@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <613a9115-ba87-4fd7-a42f-7995d0a6c6fb@hyperactivesw.com>

On 10/13/23 12:46 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
> If pro devs with decades of experience struggle with this, newcomers will run screaming.

I agree. But as a "pro" dev I'm embarrassed to admit that the problem I was having was of my 
own doing. Matthias' Helper tool is invaluable and I couldn't understand why it always worked 
before but didn't now. He took a look and found the problem. Actually, I had two problems, none 
of which LC could have solved.

Problem 1: I was using a certificate for the wrong app. I wish I'd known what "no identity 
found" meant. I could have fixed it.

Problem 2: (Stupid, stupid, stupid) I uploaded my app to Google Drive for download and forgot 
to zip it. Matthias found that it was corrupted when he tried to help (bless you, Matthias.) I 
have known forever that uncompressed files don't travel well but we had customers running 
Sonoma who were flooding the tech queue, and in the rush to get the thing out I forgot. And 
since I could run the original build on my own Mac, I couldn't figure out why no one else could 
open it.

That said, it would be great if LC could create an .ipa for iOS and provide 
notarization/stapling services for Mac apps. It's a start. But honestly, that would only be of 
marginal help. The certificates, profiles, keystores, etc. can only be created by the 
developer, and that's mostly where the headaches begin.

I used to be an enthusiastic Apple advocate but now I'm not so sure. Once you've seen the 
developer side your perceptions change. Google is only marginally easier these days too. I 
understand the security reasons for all the hassle, but that doesn't help when you're in the 
middle of it.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Oct 13 17:02:56 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 21:02:56 +0000
Subject: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
In-Reply-To: <31F57AB1-44B9-4E7E-8F5C-8297C373F4C7@major-k.de>
References: <SJ0PR02MB753347D5EBBD0207247ECE66B2D2A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <d1f9f298-bff7-4108-97e0-3d3efda4bbec@fourthworld.com>
 <31F57AB1-44B9-4E7E-8F5C-8297C373F4C7@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <SJ0PR02MB7533D5ACF0D23158336E77C5B2D2A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>

Don't know why I didn't see Richard's post in my email, but +1 too. 

Bob S

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> On Behalf Of Klaus major-k via use-livecode
Sent: Friday, October 13, 2023 10:53 AM
To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Cc: Klaus major-k <klaus at major-k.de>
Subject: Re: Deployment: a plea/opportunity

Bravo, Richard, you are so right, bravo!

> Am 13.10.2023 um 19:46 schrieb Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> We see it here in this list. We see it in the forums. We see it wherever app deployment is discussed:
> OS requirements for packaging/stapling/signing apps are onerous.
> At the edge of, and sometimes exceeding, being prohibitively so.
> There's no point in making a standalone if you can't ship it.
> If pro devs with decades of experience struggle with this, newcomers will run screaming.
> SIMPLIFYING DEPLOYMENT IS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY.
> Pardon the all-caps. I rarely use them. But this is important.
> Simplifying deployment is more important than "AI".
> Simplifying deployment is more important than "nocode".
> It is the single biggest pain point.
> And so it is the single biggest opportunity.
> Fulfill the promise of "Everyone can code": focus on simplifying deployment.
> Step 1: Acquire Matthias' great tool.
> Step 2: Enhance it for current requirements across platforms.
> Step 3: Look for every opportunity to further simplify the process, and take it, at least one more simplification with each new build.
> This is important. It really is.
> --
> And no, web export will not magically save things.  Even when that becomes truly production-ready, it's only for web apps.  Not everything needs to be a web app.
> There are a hundred ways to make web apps.
> There are few ways to make cross-platform native apps.
> And almost none that rival what LC can do on the desktop.
> Play into strengths.  Make native deployment the best it can be.
> When that's done, only then resume work on more peripheral features.
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de


_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Sat Oct 14 00:52:28 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2023 05:52:28 +0100
Subject: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
In-Reply-To: <d2c606a5-fdec-2dab-c166-3d9d0fcd1ed6@researchware.com>
References: <d2c606a5-fdec-2dab-c166-3d9d0fcd1ed6@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <2EB72C77-4091-4AB4-A248-DFE1CF84F091@gmail.com>

Re: The problem was getting my Apple code signing certificates AND related certificates on to the MacBook air from the Apple Developer site, something I don't think Livecode can really help with.

Paul, just so I understand this problem better. Is there a reason why you can’t just download your certificates from the Apple Developer site to your MacBook Air? Do they specifically restrict downloading to only certain devices? 

Mark

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 13, 2023, at 9:02 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I'd love to see versions of Livecode stacks that assist with code signing and notarization for as many platforms as possible (I am aware of stacks for Windows and macOS) built into Livecode.
> 
> That said, for my two major problems (1 on macOS and 1 on Windows), I don't think there is anything Livecode could have done to help (other than lessons/documentation).
> 
> On Windows my current certificate - a .pfx format code signing cert - is expiring in November, so I renewed it. However, as of June 1 2023, the Windows code signing industry moved to requiring all code signing certificates to be issued on an encrypted USB token and you must use specialized software (that 3rd party can not hook into to prevent malware) to access those tokens to code sign.
> 
> On macOS, I needed to update code signing and NOTARIZATION to accommodate that Apple is switching to a new notary tool that only rns on new versions of macOS (I was using Mojave and atool) so I HAD (forced by Apple) for update to using the macBook Air I have that happened to have Sonoma on it and than meant Xcode 15 command line tools for the new Notary tool. atool stops being accepted by Apple some time in November so my old notarization steps will stop working. The change in notary tool was easy with Matthias's lessons and documentation on livecode.com. The problem was getting my Apple code signing certificates AND related certificates on to the MacBook air from the Apple Developer site, something I don't think Livecode can really help with.
> 
> Yes, others have had still other issues some of which improvements in Livecode might help address, but for the two I ran into that I turned to the list for help for, they were ultimately nothing that I think Livecode could help with.
> 
> Just my 2 cents on my 2 issues.
> 
> 
>> On 10/13/2023 1:46 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
>> We see it here in this list. We see it in the forums. We see it wherever app deployment is discussed:
>> 
>> OS requirements for packaging/stapling/signing apps are onerous.
>> 
>> At the edge of, and sometimes exceeding, being prohibitively so.
>> 
>> There's no point in making a standalone if you can't ship it.
>> 
>> If pro devs with decades of experience struggle with this, newcomers will run screaming.
>> 
>> SIMPLIFYING DEPLOYMENT IS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY.
>> 
>> Pardon the all-caps. I rarely use them. But this is important.
>> 
>> Simplifying deployment is more important than "AI".
>> Simplifying deployment is more important than "nocode".
>> 
>> It is the single biggest pain point.
>> 
>> And so it is the single biggest opportunity.
>> 
>> Fulfill the promise of "Everyone can code": focus on simplifying deployment.
>> 
>> Step 1: Acquire Matthias' great tool.
>> 
>> Step 2: Enhance it for current requirements across platforms.
>> 
>> Step 3: Look for every opportunity to further simplify the process, and take it, at least one more simplification with each new build.
>> 
>> This is important. It really is.
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> And no, web export will not magically save things.  Even when that becomes truly production-ready, it's only for web apps.  Not everything needs to be a web app.
>> 
>> There are a hundred ways to make web apps.
>> 
>> There are few ways to make cross-platform native apps.
>> 
>> And almost none that rival what LC can do on the desktop.
>> 
>> Play into strengths.  Make native deployment the best it can be.
>> 
>> When that's done, only then resume work on more peripheral features.
>> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat Oct 14 12:16:22 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2023 11:16:22 -0500
Subject: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
In-Reply-To: <2EB72C77-4091-4AB4-A248-DFE1CF84F091@gmail.com>
References: <d2c606a5-fdec-2dab-c166-3d9d0fcd1ed6@researchware.com>
 <2EB72C77-4091-4AB4-A248-DFE1CF84F091@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <18b2ef973f0.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

The certificate is locked to a particular machine. You can either export it 
from Keychain or create a new one. To create the certificate, the Mac must 
submit a signing request, which I assume identifies the machine.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On October 13, 2023 11:54:39 PM Mark Smith via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Re: The problem was getting my Apple code signing certificates AND related 
> certificates on to the MacBook air from the Apple Developer site, something 
> I don't think Livecode can really help with.
>
> Paul, just so I understand this problem better. Is there a reason why you 
> cant just download your certificates from the Apple Developer site to your 
> MacBook Air? Do they specifically restrict downloading to only certain devices?
>
> Mark
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Oct 13, 2023, at 9:02 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> I'd love to see versions of Livecode stacks that assist with code signing 
>> and notarization for as many platforms as possible (I am aware of stacks 
>> for Windows and macOS) built into Livecode.
>>
>> That said, for my two major problems (1 on macOS and 1 on Windows), I don't 
>> think there is anything Livecode could have done to help (other than 
>> lessons/documentation).
>>
>> On Windows my current certificate - a .pfx format code signing cert - is 
>> expiring in November, so I renewed it. However, as of June 1 2023, the 
>> Windows code signing industry moved to requiring all code signing 
>> certificates to be issued on an encrypted USB token and you must use 
>> specialized software (that 3rd party can not hook into to prevent malware) 
>> to access those tokens to code sign.
>>
>> On macOS, I needed to update code signing and NOTARIZATION to accommodate 
>> that Apple is switching to a new notary tool that only rns on new versions 
>> of macOS (I was using Mojave and atool) so I HAD (forced by Apple) for 
>> update to using the macBook Air I have that happened to have Sonoma on it 
>> and than meant Xcode 15 command line tools for the new Notary tool. atool 
>> stops being accepted by Apple some time in November so my old notarization 
>> steps will stop working. The change in notary tool was easy with Matthias's 
>> lessons and documentation on livecode.com. The problem was getting my Apple 
>> code signing certificates AND related certificates on to the MacBook air 
>> from the Apple Developer site, something I don't think Livecode can really 
>> help with.
>>
>> Yes, others have had still other issues some of which improvements in 
>> Livecode might help address, but for the two I ran into that I turned to 
>> the list for help for, they were ultimately nothing that I think Livecode 
>> could help with.
>>
>> Just my 2 cents on my 2 issues.
>>
>>
>>> On 10/13/2023 1:46 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
>>> We see it here in this list. We see it in the forums. We see it wherever 
>>> app deployment is discussed:
>>>
>>> OS requirements for packaging/stapling/signing apps are onerous.
>>>
>>> At the edge of, and sometimes exceeding, being prohibitively so.
>>>
>>> There's no point in making a standalone if you can't ship it.
>>>
>>> If pro devs with decades of experience struggle with this, newcomers will 
>>> run screaming.
>>>
>>> SIMPLIFYING DEPLOYMENT IS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY.
>>>
>>> Pardon the all-caps. I rarely use them. But this is important.
>>>
>>> Simplifying deployment is more important than "AI".
>>> Simplifying deployment is more important than "nocode".
>>>
>>> It is the single biggest pain point.
>>>
>>> And so it is the single biggest opportunity.
>>>
>>> Fulfill the promise of "Everyone can code": focus on simplifying deployment.
>>>
>>> Step 1: Acquire Matthias' great tool.
>>>
>>> Step 2: Enhance it for current requirements across platforms.
>>>
>>> Step 3: Look for every opportunity to further simplify the process, and 
>>> take it, at least one more simplification with each new build.
>>>
>>> This is important. It really is.
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> And no, web export will not magically save things.  Even when that becomes 
>>> truly production-ready, it's only for web apps.  Not everything needs to be 
>>> a web app.
>>>
>>> There are a hundred ways to make web apps.
>>>
>>> There are few ways to make cross-platform native apps.
>>>
>>> And almost none that rival what LC can do on the desktop.
>>>
>>> Play into strengths.  Make native deployment the best it can be.
>>>
>>> When that's done, only then resume work on more peripheral features.
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From paul at researchware.com  Sat Oct 14 13:15:32 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2023 13:15:32 -0400
Subject: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
In-Reply-To: <2EB72C77-4091-4AB4-A248-DFE1CF84F091@gmail.com>
References: <d2c606a5-fdec-2dab-c166-3d9d0fcd1ed6@researchware.com>
 <2EB72C77-4091-4AB4-A248-DFE1CF84F091@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e1c29fa2-84d3-87f0-1551-dd25734782b6@researchware.com>

On 10/14/2023 12:52 AM, Mark Smith wrote:
> Paul, just so I understand this problem better. Is there a reason why you cant just download your certificates from the Apple Developer site to your MacBook Air? Do they specifically restrict downloading to only certain devices?

If you download from the Apple Developer site, apparently only the 
public key part of teh cert is downloaded. The private key, created on 
the machine you did a Code SIgning Request on is on that machine and not 
the Apple Developer site, which is why you need to either export and 
import between macs or generate a new certificate.

Panos answered this is another thread I started on this USE-LIST.


From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Sat Oct 14 15:41:43 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2023 20:41:43 +0100
Subject: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
In-Reply-To: <18b2ef973f0.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <d2c606a5-fdec-2dab-c166-3d9d0fcd1ed6@researchware.com>
 <2EB72C77-4091-4AB4-A248-DFE1CF84F091@gmail.com>
 <18b2ef973f0.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <070F7A6A-FECC-4AA8-8B90-EE2C25360993@gmail.com>

Ah, that makes sense. Thanks Jacque

> On 14 Oct 2023, at 5:16 pm, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> The certificate is locked to a particular machine. You can either export it from Keychain or create a new one. To create the certificate, the Mac must submit a signing request, which I assume identifies the machine.
> --


From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Sat Oct 14 15:42:38 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2023 20:42:38 +0100
Subject: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
In-Reply-To: <e1c29fa2-84d3-87f0-1551-dd25734782b6@researchware.com>
References: <d2c606a5-fdec-2dab-c166-3d9d0fcd1ed6@researchware.com>
 <2EB72C77-4091-4AB4-A248-DFE1CF84F091@gmail.com>
 <e1c29fa2-84d3-87f0-1551-dd25734782b6@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <33D95C6B-0B51-4F65-B805-027D2B5C76A5@gmail.com>

Perfect. I am sure I knew that at one point but had forgotten. Thank you for the reminder.

Mark


> On 14 Oct 2023, at 6:15 pm, Paul Dupuis <paul at researchware.com> wrote:
> 
> On 10/14/2023 12:52 AM, Mark Smith wrote:
>> Paul, just so I understand this problem better. Is there a reason why you can’t just download your certificates from the Apple Developer site to your MacBook Air? Do they specifically restrict downloading to only certain devices?
> 
> If you download from the Apple Developer site, apparently only the public key part of teh cert is downloaded. The private key, created on the machine you did a Code SIgning Request on is on that machine and not the Apple Developer site, which is why you need to either export and import between macs or generate a new certificate.
> 
> Panos answered this is another thread I started on this USE-LIST.



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Sat Oct 14 19:12:33 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2023 01:12:33 +0200
Subject: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
In-Reply-To: <2EB72C77-4091-4AB4-A248-DFE1CF84F091@gmail.com>
References: <d2c606a5-fdec-2dab-c166-3d9d0fcd1ed6@researchware.com>
 <2EB72C77-4091-4AB4-A248-DFE1CF84F091@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B2D68E4C-007A-4A44-AA79-3B36DAC235FD@m-r-d.de>

Hi all,

there is a way to export a Apple ID account including developer certificates and provisioning profiles at once using Xcode.
See here
https://dl.qck.nu/?dl=Transfer-Copy_Developer_Account_to_a_new_computer.pdf

Regards,
Matthias



> Am 14.10.2023 um 06:52 schrieb Mark Smith via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Re: The problem was getting my Apple code signing certificates AND related certificates on to the MacBook air from the Apple Developer site, something I don't think Livecode can really help with.
> 
> Paul, just so I understand this problem better. Is there a reason why you can’t just download your certificates from the Apple Developer site to your MacBook Air? Do they specifically restrict downloading to only certain devices? 
> 
> Mark
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 13, 2023, at 9:02 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I'd love to see versions of Livecode stacks that assist with code signing and notarization for as many platforms as possible (I am aware of stacks for Windows and macOS) built into Livecode.
>> 
>> That said, for my two major problems (1 on macOS and 1 on Windows), I don't think there is anything Livecode could have done to help (other than lessons/documentation).
>> 
>> On Windows my current certificate - a .pfx format code signing cert - is expiring in November, so I renewed it. However, as of June 1 2023, the Windows code signing industry moved to requiring all code signing certificates to be issued on an encrypted USB token and you must use specialized software (that 3rd party can not hook into to prevent malware) to access those tokens to code sign.
>> 
>> On macOS, I needed to update code signing and NOTARIZATION to accommodate that Apple is switching to a new notary tool that only rns on new versions of macOS (I was using Mojave and atool) so I HAD (forced by Apple) for update to using the macBook Air I have that happened to have Sonoma on it and than meant Xcode 15 command line tools for the new Notary tool. atool stops being accepted by Apple some time in November so my old notarization steps will stop working. The change in notary tool was easy with Matthias's lessons and documentation on livecode.com. The problem was getting my Apple code signing certificates AND related certificates on to the MacBook air from the Apple Developer site, something I don't think Livecode can really help with.
>> 
>> Yes, others have had still other issues some of which improvements in Livecode might help address, but for the two I ran into that I turned to the list for help for, they were ultimately nothing that I think Livecode could help with.
>> 
>> Just my 2 cents on my 2 issues.
>> 
>> 
>>> On 10/13/2023 1:46 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
>>> We see it here in this list. We see it in the forums. We see it wherever app deployment is discussed:
>>> 
>>> OS requirements for packaging/stapling/signing apps are onerous.
>>> 
>>> At the edge of, and sometimes exceeding, being prohibitively so.
>>> 
>>> There's no point in making a standalone if you can't ship it.
>>> 
>>> If pro devs with decades of experience struggle with this, newcomers will run screaming.
>>> 
>>> SIMPLIFYING DEPLOYMENT IS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY.
>>> 
>>> Pardon the all-caps. I rarely use them. But this is important.
>>> 
>>> Simplifying deployment is more important than "AI".
>>> Simplifying deployment is more important than "nocode".
>>> 
>>> It is the single biggest pain point.
>>> 
>>> And so it is the single biggest opportunity.
>>> 
>>> Fulfill the promise of "Everyone can code": focus on simplifying deployment.
>>> 
>>> Step 1: Acquire Matthias' great tool.
>>> 
>>> Step 2: Enhance it for current requirements across platforms.
>>> 
>>> Step 3: Look for every opportunity to further simplify the process, and take it, at least one more simplification with each new build.
>>> 
>>> This is important. It really is.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> 
>>> And no, web export will not magically save things.  Even when that becomes truly production-ready, it's only for web apps.  Not everything needs to be a web app.
>>> 
>>> There are a hundred ways to make web apps.
>>> 
>>> There are few ways to make cross-platform native apps.
>>> 
>>> And almost none that rival what LC can do on the desktop.
>>> 
>>> Play into strengths.  Make native deployment the best it can be.
>>> 
>>> When that's done, only then resume work on more peripheral features.
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From paul at researchware.com  Sat Oct 14 19:55:27 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2023 19:55:27 -0400
Subject: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
In-Reply-To: <B2D68E4C-007A-4A44-AA79-3B36DAC235FD@m-r-d.de>
References: <d2c606a5-fdec-2dab-c166-3d9d0fcd1ed6@researchware.com>
 <2EB72C77-4091-4AB4-A248-DFE1CF84F091@gmail.com>
 <B2D68E4C-007A-4A44-AA79-3B36DAC235FD@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <a5e90995-306b-7640-7566-bb3c9efa4f20@researchware.com>

On 10/14/2023 7:12 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> there is a way to export a Apple ID account including developer certificates and provisioning profiles at once using Xcode.
> See here
> https://dl.qck.nu/?dl=Transfer-Copy_Developer_Account_to_a_new_computer.pdf
>
> Regards,
> Matthias

So for some time, I have only downloaded the "command Line Tools for 
XCode n.n" rather than the full Xcode install for two reasons: (1) To 
date, I thought I only needed the command line tools for code signing 
and notarization/stapling; and (2) to sage a couple GB of space

The above is the first reason I have seen, if you are only developing 
with Livecode, to download the full Xcode install.

Thank you.




From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Sun Oct 15 15:23:42 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2023 20:23:42 +0100
Subject: Universal buttons: bugs or feature
Message-ID: <A9780204-4439-4CD1-B5E6-31E254BCF984@gmail.com>

Hello all,

Recently I decided to try out a number of different button styles to see which ones I liked best, and I ran across some odd behaviour with “Universal” buttons. First, there does not appear to be any style difference between an enabled universal button and a disabled one. With all other button styles there is a noticeable difference between the enabled and disabled versions. More importantly (perhaps) with all other button types if you depress the mouse over the button then move the mouse off the button and release it it does not fire the button. With universal buttons if you move a depressed mouse off the button and then release it the button fires. And this behaviour does not appear to conform to Apple’s user interface guidelines "The mousedown event is fired at an Element when a pointing device button is pressed while the pointer is inside the element.” 

Are these differences in the Universal button deliberate features or bugs? If features, why so? 

Thanks
Mark



From paul at researchware.com  Sun Oct 15 16:59:00 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2023 16:59:00 -0400
Subject: Another macOS Codesigning/Notarization issue
Message-ID: <1b4cf0ce-8527-6c4c-46bc-29e5d449ae07@researchware.com>

Help,

I am trying to switch Notarization tools for the Apple November 
deadline. I was using macOS Mojave with Xcode 10.2.1 and not (to use the 
new mandated Notary tool) have to move to Sonoma with Xcode 15.0.0.

I have signed, notarized, and stapled (all responses returned were what 
the lessons at Livecode.com by Matthias said they should be) a Livecode 
9.6.10 Standalone using my Mojave system (the old tool) and it works on 
Sonoma and Mojave

I have signed, notarized, and stapled (all responses were as the lesson 
said they should be) a Livecode 9.6.10 Standalone using my Sonoma system 
(the new tool) and I get  an error trying to run it on Sonoma. It runs 
under Mojave (although the first time the cursor spins a lot and it 
takes a while to start)

The error is an extraordinary helpful dialog with a smiling macOS icon 
that say 'The application "<appname>" can't be opened." and an OK button.

I though for a bit that it was that I was still building for Intel and 
the Sonoma is a M1 macBook Air, so I changed the Standalone settings and 
redid everything (again all seemed okay) and the GetInfo says Universal 
(where it said Intel before) but I get the same message.

AGAIN, the old Notarization procedure produces an notarized (and 
stapled) app (that is actually just Intel) that runs without error on 
Sonoma on M1 MacBook Air and Mojave on Intel Powerbook, but the new one, 
from the lessons for Xcode 13+ produced the error above and my app will 
not run.

Security is set to allow App Store and Identified Developers.

Unless I figure this out, I will not be able to make new version of our 
macOS app after November 1. Has anyone else experienced this? Has any 
one see this message?




From rabit at revigniter.com  Sun Oct 15 17:46:31 2023
From: rabit at revigniter.com (Ralf Bitter)
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2023 23:46:31 +0200
Subject: Universal buttons: bugs or feature
In-Reply-To: <A9780204-4439-4CD1-B5E6-31E254BCF984@gmail.com>
References: <A9780204-4439-4CD1-B5E6-31E254BCF984@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3e10df1e-5bac-8362-c33d-6eaac5382d10@revigniter.com>

Neither, it is quite simply sloppiness. Sorry for that,
will look into it.


Ralf


On 15.10.2023 21:23, Mark Smith via use-livecode wrote:
> Are these differences in the Universal button deliberate features or bugs? If features, why so?



From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Mon Oct 16 03:14:24 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2023 08:14:24 +0100
Subject: Universal buttons: bugs or feature
In-Reply-To: <3e10df1e-5bac-8362-c33d-6eaac5382d10@revigniter.com>
References: <3e10df1e-5bac-8362-c33d-6eaac5382d10@revigniter.com>
Message-ID: <FC880F0F-A1BC-4511-AEA0-7DDB30DFE324@gmail.com>

Thanks Ralf. I quite like the look of the Universal button myself. Since its a widget, if you come up with a revision and want it tested I’d be happy try it in my current project.

Best,
Mark


Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 15, 2023, at 10:46 PM, Ralf Bitter via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Neither, it is quite simply sloppiness. Sorry for that,
> will look into it.
> 
> 
> Ralf
> 
> 
>> On 15.10.2023 21:23, Mark Smith via use-livecode wrote:
>> Are these differences in the Universal button deliberate features or bugs? If features, why so?
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From heather at livecode.com  Mon Oct 16 06:31:10 2023
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2023 11:31:10 +0100
Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <9C6A780E-CFD1-41F7-AE6D-623BC6587153@m-r-d.de>
References: <mailman.1.1696089601.89108.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <B4839189-B0EC-4D3F-AB4B-2C04F0EB0563@uzh.ch>
 <8B04CB3A-EE65-4346-BC42-B5A10E599003@livecode.com>
 <05A7E909-CE87-47A0-B288-ADEB8F18643C@m-r-d.de>
 <EF774AE9-5843-455E-87D7-1A0D50AEEA31@livecode.com>
 <20EC1E2E-1619-4F1D-AA81-0907042C6357@mac.com>
 <252DBA11-1A8B-41E3-93DA-DC2ED08A7274@livecode.com>
 <SJ0PR02MB753347D5EBBD0207247ECE66B2D2A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <9C6A780E-CFD1-41F7-AE6D-623BC6587153@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <FDC45705-7594-4294-9851-564E60F2031F@livecode.com>

Yes, that was the question I was answering.

Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 13 Oct 2023, at 18:58, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Yes that is definitely the case.
> 
> But Bill asked if Apple will "fix that in Sonoma" so his old standalones will still work under Sonoma without building them again with 9.6.10 or 10.0.6. At least that was my understanding. ;) 
> 
> 
> 
>> Am 13.10.2023 um 18:32 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Heather, just to be clear, I was under the implression that 9.6.10 and 10.0.6 WAS the fix for this. 
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> On Behalf Of Heather Laine via use-livecode
>> Sent: Friday, October 13, 2023 1:37 AM
>> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
>> Cc: Heather Laine <heather at livecode.com>
>> Subject: Re: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
>> 
>> I don't think you can hope for that. It's not a bug, its a change in the way they are implementing menus.
>> 
>> Best Regards,
>> 
>> Heather
>> 
>> Heather Laine
>> Customer Services Manager
>> LiveCode Ltd
>> www.livecode.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Oct 16 13:10:45 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2023 12:10:45 -0500
Subject: Another macOS Codesigning/Notarization issue
In-Reply-To: <1b4cf0ce-8527-6c4c-46bc-29e5d449ae07@researchware.com>
References: <1b4cf0ce-8527-6c4c-46bc-29e5d449ae07@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <18b3977f608.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

The uninformative error dialog is what I got when the app was corrupted but 
I doubt that's the problem for yours. But if code signing is the issue you 
usually get a different dialog with a reason.

Have you tried Matthias' helper tool? Once I fixed my app it worked 
perfectly. You can download it from the link at the top of the lesson page, 
the one for Xcode 13+. t does use notarytool.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On October 15, 2023 4:01:05 PM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Help,
>
> I am trying to switch Notarization tools for the Apple November
> deadline. I was using macOS Mojave with Xcode 10.2.1 and not (to use the
> new mandated Notary tool) have to move to Sonoma with Xcode 15.0.0.
>
> I have signed, notarized, and stapled (all responses returned were what
> the lessons at Livecode.com by Matthias said they should be) a Livecode
> 9.6.10 Standalone using my Mojave system (the old tool) and it works on
> Sonoma and Mojave
>
> I have signed, notarized, and stapled (all responses were as the lesson
> said they should be) a Livecode 9.6.10 Standalone using my Sonoma system
> (the new tool) and I get  an error trying to run it on Sonoma. It runs
> under Mojave (although the first time the cursor spins a lot and it
> takes a while to start)
>
> The error is an extraordinary helpful dialog with a smiling macOS icon
> that say 'The application "<appname>" can't be opened." and an OK button.
>
> I though for a bit that it was that I was still building for Intel and
> the Sonoma is a M1 macBook Air, so I changed the Standalone settings and
> redid everything (again all seemed okay) and the GetInfo says Universal
> (where it said Intel before) but I get the same message.
>
> AGAIN, the old Notarization procedure produces an notarized (and
> stapled) app (that is actually just Intel) that runs without error on
> Sonoma on M1 MacBook Air and Mojave on Intel Powerbook, but the new one,
> from the lessons for Xcode 13+ produced the error above and my app will
> not run.
>
> Security is set to allow App Store and Identified Developers.
>
> Unless I figure this out, I will not be able to make new version of our
> macOS app after November 1. Has anyone else experienced this? Has any
> one see this message?
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au  Mon Oct 16 19:19:40 2023
From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2023 10:19:40 +1100
Subject: arrayToJSON on lc server
Message-ID: <F6C9FD71-71BA-4A02-9CBA-AA7F81E03E43@optusnet.com.au>

I am having a problem with the function arrayToJSON on LC Server 9.6.10  pro (Linux host) (I couldn't get it to work on earlier versions either)

I get the error

Function: error in function handler (arrayToJSON)
The mergJSON.so file is in the Externals folder, which resides in the same directory as livecode-server. Since revdb calls work, which I assume use the revdb.so library, evidently Externals are loading, and permissions for mergJSON.so are the same as for revdb.so.

This is supposed to work out of the box, so I must be missing something obvious.

BTW, the call "the externalFunctions of this stack" return empty - is that correct, should it not return the functions available in the Externals .so libraries?

Neville Smythe





From kee.nethery at elloco.com  Mon Oct 16 20:49:01 2023
From: kee.nethery at elloco.com (kee nethery)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2023 17:49:01 -0700
Subject: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
In-Reply-To: <31F57AB1-44B9-4E7E-8F5C-8297C373F4C7@major-k.de>
References: <SJ0PR02MB753347D5EBBD0207247ECE66B2D2A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <d1f9f298-bff7-4108-97e0-3d3efda4bbec@fourthworld.com>
 <31F57AB1-44B9-4E7E-8F5C-8297C373F4C7@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <DE3F92A4-8670-4B15-B34F-E6F4ACDC6310@elloco.com>

I’ve stopped development of my Mac app because LiveCode does not support in-app purchases (ie, allowing me to get paid) and the deployment hassle is just not worth it for an app that has no way to make money.

There is NO REASON for each developer to painfully figure out how to deploy apps when LiveCode could do it for everyone.

Kee Nethery

> On Oct 13, 2023, at 10:52 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Bravo, Richard, you are so right, bravo!
> 
>> Am 13.10.2023 um 19:46 schrieb Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> We see it here in this list. We see it in the forums. We see it wherever app deployment is discussed:
>> OS requirements for packaging/stapling/signing apps are onerous.
>> At the edge of, and sometimes exceeding, being prohibitively so.
>> There's no point in making a standalone if you can't ship it.
>> If pro devs with decades of experience struggle with this, newcomers will run screaming.
>> SIMPLIFYING DEPLOYMENT IS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY.
>> Pardon the all-caps. I rarely use them. But this is important.
>> Simplifying deployment is more important than "AI".
>> Simplifying deployment is more important than "nocode".
>> It is the single biggest pain point.
>> And so it is the single biggest opportunity.
>> Fulfill the promise of "Everyone can code": focus on simplifying deployment.
>> Step 1: Acquire Matthias' great tool.
>> Step 2: Enhance it for current requirements across platforms.
>> Step 3: Look for every opportunity to further simplify the process, and take it, at least one more simplification with each new build.
>> This is important. It really is.
>> --
>> And no, web export will not magically save things.  Even when that becomes truly production-ready, it's only for web apps.  Not everything needs to be a web app.
>> There are a hundred ways to make web apps.
>> There are few ways to make cross-platform native apps.
>> And almost none that rival what LC can do on the desktop.
>> Play into strengths.  Make native deployment the best it can be.
>> When that's done, only then resume work on more peripheral features.
>> -- 
>> Richard Gaskin
>> Fourth World Systems
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Mon Oct 16 22:49:15 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2023 22:49:15 -0400
Subject: arrayToJSON on lc server
In-Reply-To: <F6C9FD71-71BA-4A02-9CBA-AA7F81E03E43@optusnet.com.au>
References: <F6C9FD71-71BA-4A02-9CBA-AA7F81E03E43@optusnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <CADCoycN0328t6dynX58mrwU4oht-2aQQEU7vZNZ772CTT3_j4A@mail.gmail.com>

the externalfunctions doesn't seem to be returning anything for a project i
just opened (never tested it, before). that project has a lot of
standalone inclusions, some of which have external functions, so i don't
know if it means externals that are directly attached to the stack (like
old xcmd's/xfcn's).
grasping at straws, because i'm not deploying to lc server on linux
* i assume you manually included mergjson in your standalone (assuming
you're building your project). if not, try that.
* have you tried embedding the source from the
mergJSONLibrary.livecodescript into your main stack and then stepping
through the code? it's available in the oss repo or any of the forks of
that repo. that's just the library, not the mergjsonencode external, but it
might get you closer.
* if that doesn't work, there are at least two other oss lc json codebases,
the most popular being mark smith's, which, i think, is what monte used
when he wrote mergjson.

On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 7:21 PM Neville Smythe via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I am having a problem with the function arrayToJSON on LC Server 9.6.10
> pro (Linux host) (I couldn't get it to work on earlier versions either)
>
> I get the error
>
> Function: error in function handler (arrayToJSON)
> The mergJSON.so file is in the Externals folder, which resides in the same
> directory as livecode-server. Since revdb calls work, which I assume use
> the revdb.so library, evidently Externals are loading, and permissions for
> mergJSON.so are the same as for revdb.so.
>
> This is supposed to work out of the box, so I must be missing something
> obvious.
>
> BTW, the call "the externalFunctions of this stack" return empty - is that
> correct, should it not return the functions available in the Externals .so
> libraries?
>
> Neville Smythe
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Mon Oct 16 23:03:24 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2023 23:03:24 -0400
Subject: arrayToJSON on lc server
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycN0328t6dynX58mrwU4oht-2aQQEU7vZNZ772CTT3_j4A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <F6C9FD71-71BA-4A02-9CBA-AA7F81E03E43@optusnet.com.au>
 <CADCoycN0328t6dynX58mrwU4oht-2aQQEU7vZNZ772CTT3_j4A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycMfGkWhdGUx2KpAbun8oAQQgeOWSQBq=+Ye7rk0QsPQmg@mail.gmail.com>

let's see: in the public repo, there's the json.lcb source:
https://github.com/livecode/livecode/blob/4606a10ea10b16d5071d0f9f263ccdd7ede8b31d/extensions/libraries/json/json.lcb#L4
also, references to the "fastjson" library:
https://github.com/bhall2001/fastjson

On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 10:49 PM Mike Kerner <MikeKerner at roadrunner.com>
wrote:

> the externalfunctions doesn't seem to be returning anything for a project
> i just opened (never tested it, before). that project has a lot of
> standalone inclusions, some of which have external functions, so i don't
> know if it means externals that are directly attached to the stack (like
> old xcmd's/xfcn's).
> grasping at straws, because i'm not deploying to lc server on linux
> * i assume you manually included mergjson in your standalone (assuming
> you're building your project). if not, try that.
> * have you tried embedding the source from the
> mergJSONLibrary.livecodescript into your main stack and then stepping
> through the code? it's available in the oss repo or any of the forks of
> that repo. that's just the library, not the mergjsonencode external, but it
> might get you closer.
> * if that doesn't work, there are at least two other oss lc json
> codebases, the most popular being mark smith's, which, i think, is what
> monte used when he wrote mergjson.
>
> On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 7:21 PM Neville Smythe via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> I am having a problem with the function arrayToJSON on LC Server 9.6.10
>> pro (Linux host) (I couldn't get it to work on earlier versions either)
>>
>> I get the error
>>
>> Function: error in function handler (arrayToJSON)
>> The mergJSON.so file is in the Externals folder, which resides in the
>> same directory as livecode-server. Since revdb calls work, which I assume
>> use the revdb.so library, evidently Externals are loading, and permissions
>> for mergJSON.so are the same as for revdb.so.
>>
>> This is supposed to work out of the box, so I must be missing something
>> obvious.
>>
>> BTW, the call "the externalFunctions of this stack" return empty - is
>> that correct, should it not return the functions available in the Externals
>> .so libraries?
>>
>> Neville Smythe
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>    and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From derek-lc-list at speedbump.io  Mon Oct 16 23:36:23 2023
From: derek-lc-list at speedbump.io (Derek Bump)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2023 22:36:23 -0500
Subject: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
In-Reply-To: <d1f9f298-bff7-4108-97e0-3d3efda4bbec@fourthworld.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB753347D5EBBD0207247ECE66B2D2A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <d1f9f298-bff7-4108-97e0-3d3efda4bbec@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <89c024d7-607d-4596-96c4-ae48bac1d878@speedbump.io>

Thank you for speaking up, Richard. I could not agree more: deployment 
issues are a critical bottleneck that deserves immediate attention.

Regards,

Derek Bump


On 10/13/23 12:46, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
> We see it here in this list. We see it in the forums. We see it 
> wherever app deployment is discussed:
>
> OS requirements for packaging/stapling/signing apps are onerous.
>
> At the edge of, and sometimes exceeding, being prohibitively so.
>
> There's no point in making a standalone if you can't ship it.
>
> If pro devs with decades of experience struggle with this, newcomers 
> will run screaming.
>
> SIMPLIFYING DEPLOYMENT IS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY.
>
> Pardon the all-caps. I rarely use them. But this is important.
>
> Simplifying deployment is more important than "AI".
> Simplifying deployment is more important than "nocode".
>
> It is the single biggest pain point.
>
> And so it is the single biggest opportunity.


From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Tue Oct 17 11:24:21 2023
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2023 11:24:21 -0400
Subject: arrayToJSON on lc server
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycMfGkWhdGUx2KpAbun8oAQQgeOWSQBq=+Ye7rk0QsPQmg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <F6C9FD71-71BA-4A02-9CBA-AA7F81E03E43@optusnet.com.au>
 <CADCoycN0328t6dynX58mrwU4oht-2aQQEU7vZNZ772CTT3_j4A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADCoycMfGkWhdGUx2KpAbun8oAQQgeOWSQBq=+Ye7rk0QsPQmg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002b01da010e$04cc03a0$0e640ae0$@net>

I've been using fastJson. I do a "start using" to include it as a library. To date I have not had any problems encoding an LC array to JSON and decoding it to a JavaScript array on the client browser.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2023 11:03 PM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Mike Kerner
Subject: Re: arrayToJSON on lc server

let's see: in the public repo, there's the json.lcb source:
https://github.com/livecode/livecode/blob/4606a10ea10b16d5071d0f9f263ccdd7ede8b31d/extensions/libraries/json/json.lcb#L4
also, references to the "fastjson" library:
https://github.com/bhall2001/fastjson

On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 10:49 PM Mike Kerner <MikeKerner at roadrunner.com>
wrote:

> the externalfunctions doesn't seem to be returning anything for a 
> project i just opened (never tested it, before). that project has a 
> lot of standalone inclusions, some of which have external functions, 
> so i don't know if it means externals that are directly attached to 
> the stack (like old xcmd's/xfcn's).
> grasping at straws, because i'm not deploying to lc server on linux
> * i assume you manually included mergjson in your standalone (assuming 
> you're building your project). if not, try that.
> * have you tried embedding the source from the 
> mergJSONLibrary.livecodescript into your main stack and then stepping 
> through the code? it's available in the oss repo or any of the forks 
> of that repo. that's just the library, not the mergjsonencode 
> external, but it might get you closer.
> * if that doesn't work, there are at least two other oss lc json 
> codebases, the most popular being mark smith's, which, i think, is 
> what monte used when he wrote mergjson.
>
> On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 7:21 PM Neville Smythe via use-livecode < 
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> I am having a problem with the function arrayToJSON on LC Server 
>> 9.6.10 pro (Linux host) (I couldn't get it to work on earlier 
>> versions either)
>>
>> I get the error
>>
>> Function: error in function handler (arrayToJSON) The mergJSON.so 
>> file is in the Externals folder, which resides in the same directory 
>> as livecode-server. Since revdb calls work, which I assume use the 
>> revdb.so library, evidently Externals are loading, and permissions 
>> for mergJSON.so are the same as for revdb.so.
>>
>> This is supposed to work out of the box, so I must be missing 
>> something obvious.
>>
>> BTW, the call "the externalFunctions of this stack" return empty - is 
>> that correct, should it not return the functions available in the 
>> Externals .so libraries?
>>
>> Neville Smythe
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second 
> day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>    and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
>


--
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From bvlahos at mac.com  Tue Oct 17 13:37:22 2023
From: bvlahos at mac.com (Bill Vlahos)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2023 10:37:22 -0700
Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <FDC45705-7594-4294-9851-564E60F2031F@livecode.com>
References: <mailman.1.1696089601.89108.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <B4839189-B0EC-4D3F-AB4B-2C04F0EB0563@uzh.ch>
 <8B04CB3A-EE65-4346-BC42-B5A10E599003@livecode.com>
 <05A7E909-CE87-47A0-B288-ADEB8F18643C@m-r-d.de>
 <EF774AE9-5843-455E-87D7-1A0D50AEEA31@livecode.com>
 <20EC1E2E-1619-4F1D-AA81-0907042C6357@mac.com>
 <252DBA11-1A8B-41E3-93DA-DC2ED08A7274@livecode.com>
 <SJ0PR02MB753347D5EBBD0207247ECE66B2D2A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <9C6A780E-CFD1-41F7-AE6D-623BC6587153@m-r-d.de>
 <FDC45705-7594-4294-9851-564E60F2031F@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <4A3F8845-9136-4F8F-9131-A502A268F011@mac.com>

Heather,

I appreciate your answer.

Thank you,
Bill Vlahos

> On Oct 16, 2023, at 3:31 AM, Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Yes, that was the question I was answering.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On 13 Oct 2023, at 18:58, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Yes that is definitely the case.
>> 
>> But Bill asked if Apple will "fix that in Sonoma" so his old standalones will still work under Sonoma without building them again with 9.6.10 or 10.0.6. At least that was my understanding. ;) 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> Am 13.10.2023 um 18:32 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> Heather, just to be clear, I was under the implression that 9.6.10 and 10.0.6 WAS the fix for this. 
>>> 
>>> Bob S
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> On Behalf Of Heather Laine via use-livecode
>>> Sent: Friday, October 13, 2023 1:37 AM
>>> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
>>> Cc: Heather Laine <heather at livecode.com>
>>> Subject: Re: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
>>> 
>>> I don't think you can hope for that. It's not a bug, its a change in the way they are implementing menus.
>>> 
>>> Best Regards,
>>> 
>>> Heather
>>> 
>>> Heather Laine
>>> Customer Services Manager
>>> LiveCode Ltd
>>> www.livecode.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Oct 17 20:11:43 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2023 19:11:43 -0500
Subject: OS X document icon missing
Message-ID: <758bcdba-ecf9-4477-9fbd-f81e966e6808@hyperactivesw.com>

How do I force Finder to show a custom document icon? I've created .icns files for both the app 
and its documents. I entered a custom extension in standalone settings. In a built standalone 
the app icon appears normally but an associated stack document has only a generic blank icon.

I used Get Info to set the document stacks to always open with my app (and it does) but the 
icon still does not appear. The plist does contain the correct icon info and both .icns files 
are present in the app's Contents/Resources/ folder.

It looks like a Finder problem but relaunching Finder didn't fix it. Ideas?

LC 9.6.10.
-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From rabit at revigniter.com  Wed Oct 18 10:02:37 2023
From: rabit at revigniter.com (Ralf Bitter)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2023 16:02:37 +0200
Subject: Universal buttons: bugs or feature
In-Reply-To: <A9780204-4439-4CD1-B5E6-31E254BCF984@gmail.com>
References: <A9780204-4439-4CD1-B5E6-31E254BCF984@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <04595ac7-76d5-a9fa-2986-6ab1ea9b5648@revigniter.com>

These issues are fixed in the latest release version 1.4.0.


Ralf



On 15.10.2023 21:23, Mark Smith via use-livecode wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> Recently I decided to try out a number of different button styles to see which ones I liked best, and I ran across some odd behaviour with Universal buttons. First, there does not appear to be any style difference between an enabled universal button and a disabled one. With all other button styles there is a noticeable difference between the enabled and disabled versions. More importantly (perhaps) with all other button types if you depress the mouse over the button then move the mouse off the button and release it it does not fire the button. With universal buttons if you move a depressed mouse off the button and then release it the button fires. And this behaviour does not appear to conform to Apples user interface guidelines "The mousedown event is fired at an Element when a pointing device button is pressed while the pointer is inside the element.
> 
> Are these differences in the Universal button deliberate features or bugs? If features, why so?
> 
> Thanks
> Mark
> 


From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Wed Oct 18 10:34:21 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2023 15:34:21 +0100
Subject: Universal buttons: bugs or feature
In-Reply-To: <04595ac7-76d5-a9fa-2986-6ab1ea9b5648@revigniter.com>
References: <A9780204-4439-4CD1-B5E6-31E254BCF984@gmail.com>
 <04595ac7-76d5-a9fa-2986-6ab1ea9b5648@revigniter.com>
Message-ID: <8D50C7C7-61FE-4B0C-9AD5-01A42392E8B8@gmail.com>

Thanks Ralf.

> On 18 Oct 2023, at 3:02 pm, Ralf Bitter <rabit at revigniter.com> wrote:
> 
> These issues are fixed in the latest release version 1.4.0.
> 
> 
> Ralf
> 
> 
> 
> On 15.10.2023 21:23, Mark Smith via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hello all,
>> Recently I decided to try out a number of different button styles to see which ones I liked best, and I ran across some odd behaviour with “Universal” buttons. First, there does not appear to be any style difference between an enabled universal button and a disabled one. With all other button styles there is a noticeable difference between the enabled and disabled versions. More importantly (perhaps) with all other button types if you depress the mouse over the button then move the mouse off the button and release it it does not fire the button. With universal buttons if you move a depressed mouse off the button and then release it the button fires. And this behaviour does not appear to conform to Apple’s user interface guidelines "The mousedown event is fired at an Element when a pointing device button is pressed while the pointer is inside the element.”
>> Are these differences in the Universal button deliberate features or bugs? If features, why so?
>> Thanks
>> Mark



From paul at researchware.com  Wed Oct 18 11:35:40 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2023 11:35:40 -0400
Subject: OS X document icon missing
In-Reply-To: <758bcdba-ecf9-4477-9fbd-f81e966e6808@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <758bcdba-ecf9-4477-9fbd-f81e966e6808@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <e2e592e8-d95a-492d-a4c1-34c4ecb32a68@researchware.com>

On 10/17/2023 8:11 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
> How do I force Finder to show a custom document icon? I've created 
> .icns files for both the app and its documents. I entered a custom 
> extension in standalone settings. In a built standalone the app icon 
> appears normally but an associated stack document has only a generic 
> blank icon.
>
> I used Get Info to set the document stacks to always open with my app 
> (and it does) but the icon still does not appear. The plist does 
> contain the correct icon info and both .icns files are present in the 
> app's Contents/Resources/ folder.
>
> It looks like a Finder problem but relaunching Finder didn't fix it. 
> Ideas?
>
> LC 9.6.10.

I don't think this is related to the problem (above) you have. If you 
have identified the document extension in the Standalone setting for 
macOS and set an ics file of icons (or the appropriate sizes required by 
Apple) than documents created by that app should display the icon. I'd 
double check that the Docunmet extension and Document Type (if you're 
using Types) in the setting match what the file is actually using. I've 
had an extra character (sometime a space which is hard to see) in the 
past that took me a bit to figure it out.

Unrelated, if you ever need more than one document type, below is some 
code I run 'on standaloneSaved' to modify the plist to add additional 
document types and icon sets to my macOS app.

     put tMac64BuildFolder&tAppName&".app/Contents/Info.plist" into 
tSrcFile -- overwrite original
     --
     if there is a file tSrcFile then
       put revXMLCreateTreeFromFile(tSrcFile,true,true,false) into tTreeID
       if tTreeID begins with "xmlerr" then
         answer error "<p>Error reading XML plist file for updating 
document types during build.</p><p>"&tTreeID&"</p>"
       else
         -- list of document types <name>,<icon file><extension>,<type 
code><cr>
         put "HyperRESEARCH Study,StandaloneDoc.icns,hs2,HRs2"&cr into 
tDocTypes
         put "HyperRESEARCH Tools,StandaloneTool.icns,rwtl,RWTL"&cr 
after tDocTypes
         put "HyperRESEARCH Study Package,StandalonePackage.icns,hsz,HSZ 
"&cr after tDocTypes
         put "HyperRESEARCH Study 
Package,StandalonePackage.icns,hs4z,HS4Z" after tDocTypes
         -- XML template
         put 
"<dict>"&cr&"<key>CFBundleTypeExtensions</key>"&cr&"<array>"&cr&"<string>[[tExtension]]</string>"&cr&"</array>"&cr 
into tXMLTemplate
         put 
"<key>CFBundleTypeIconFile</key>"&cr&"<string>[[tIconFile]]</string>"&cr&"<key>CFBundleTypeName</key>"&cr 
after tXMLTemplate
         put 
"<string>[[tDocName]]</string>"&cr&"<key>CFBundleTypeOSTypes</key>"&cr&"<array>"&cr&"<string>[[tTypeCode]]</string>"&cr 
after tXMLTemplate
         put 
"</array>"&cr&"<key>CFBundleTypeRole</key>"&cr&"<string>Editor</string>"&cr&"</dict>"&cr 
after tXMLTemplate
         -- add document types under parent <plist><dict><array> at end
         repeat for each line tDocType in tDocTypes
           put item 1 of tDocType into tDocName
           put item 2 of tDocType into tIconFile
           put item 3 of tDocType into tExtension
           put item 4 of tDocType into tTypeCode
           put merge(tXMLTemplate) into tNodeContents
           revXMLAppend tTreeID, "/plist/dict/array",tNodeContents
         end repeat
         -- output updated plist
         get empty -- clear 'it' for any possible error from revXMLText 
that places the error in 'it'
         put revXMLText(tTreeID,,true) into tXMLText
         if it is not empty then
           answer error "<p>Error writing updated XML plist 
file.</p><p>"&it&"</p>"
         end if
         put uniDecode(uniEncode(tXMLText),"UTF8") into URL 
("file:"&tSrcFile)
       end if
     end if



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Oct 18 13:11:03 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2023 12:11:03 -0500
Subject: OS X document icon missing
In-Reply-To: <e2e592e8-d95a-492d-a4c1-34c4ecb32a68@researchware.com>
References: <758bcdba-ecf9-4477-9fbd-f81e966e6808@hyperactivesw.com>
 <e2e592e8-d95a-492d-a4c1-34c4ecb32a68@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <18b43c4f070.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

You may have identified the problem. The original HC stack was ported to  
LC and the client used the free OSS version of LC to access it. Sonoma, of 
course, broke that. This is the recipe stack that I posted here, with 
permission, 2 years ago. He's not a developer and didn't want to pay a 
subscription for the single stack he uses daily. He's been collecting 
recipes for 30 years.

So I made him a quick splash app that would let him access the stack. Since 
the original was created and opened with LC I think changing the extension 
isn't working. I've been looking up ways to clear the icon cache. I'll try 
a few things.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On October 18, 2023 10:37:56 AM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>
>
> I don't think this is related to the problem (above) you have. If you
> have identified the document extension in the Standalone setting for
> macOS and set an ics file of icons (or the appropriate sizes required by
> Apple) than documents created by that app should display the icon. I'd
> double check that the Docunmet extension and Document Type (if you're
> using Types) in the setting match what the file is actually using. I've
> had an extra character (sometime a space which is hard to see) in the
> past that took me a bit to figure it out.
>
> Unrelated, if you ever need more than one document type, below is some
> code I run 'on standaloneSaved' to modify the plist to add additional
> document types and icon sets to my macOS app.
>
>     put tMac64BuildFolder&tAppName&".app/Contents/Info.plist" into
> tSrcFile -- overwrite original
>     --
>     if there is a file tSrcFile then
>       put revXMLCreateTreeFromFile(tSrcFile,true,true,false) into tTreeID
>       if tTreeID begins with "xmlerr" then
>         answer error "<p>Error reading XML plist file for updating
> document types during build.</p><p>"&tTreeID&"</p>"
>       else
>         -- list of document types <name>,<icon file><extension>,<type
> code><cr>
>         put "HyperRESEARCH Study,StandaloneDoc.icns,hs2,HRs2"&cr into
> tDocTypes
>         put "HyperRESEARCH Tools,StandaloneTool.icns,rwtl,RWTL"&cr
> after tDocTypes
>         put "HyperRESEARCH Study Package,StandalonePackage.icns,hsz,HSZ
> "&cr after tDocTypes
>         put "HyperRESEARCH Study
> Package,StandalonePackage.icns,hs4z,HS4Z" after tDocTypes
>         -- XML template
>         put
> "<dict>"&cr&"<key>CFBundleTypeExtensions</key>"&cr&"<array>"&cr&"<string>[[tExtension]]</string>"&cr&"</array>"&cr
> into tXMLTemplate
>         put
> "<key>CFBundleTypeIconFile</key>"&cr&"<string>[[tIconFile]]</string>"&cr&"<key>CFBundleTypeName</key>"&cr
> after tXMLTemplate
>         put
> "<string>[[tDocName]]</string>"&cr&"<key>CFBundleTypeOSTypes</key>"&cr&"<array>"&cr&"<string>[[tTypeCode]]</string>"&cr
> after tXMLTemplate
>         put
> "</array>"&cr&"<key>CFBundleTypeRole</key>"&cr&"<string>Editor</string>"&cr&"</dict>"&cr
> after tXMLTemplate
>         -- add document types under parent <plist><dict><array> at end
>         repeat for each line tDocType in tDocTypes
>           put item 1 of tDocType into tDocName
>           put item 2 of tDocType into tIconFile
>           put item 3 of tDocType into tExtension
>           put item 4 of tDocType into tTypeCode
>           put merge(tXMLTemplate) into tNodeContents
>           revXMLAppend tTreeID, "/plist/dict/array",tNodeContents
>         end repeat
>         -- output updated plist
>         get empty -- clear 'it' for any possible error from revXMLText
> that places the error in 'it'
>         put revXMLText(tTreeID,,true) into tXMLText
>         if it is not empty then
>           answer error "<p>Error writing updated XML plist
> file.</p><p>"&it&"</p>"
>         end if
>         put uniDecode(uniEncode(tXMLText),"UTF8") into URL
> ("file:"&tSrcFile)
>       end if
>     end if
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Oct 18 15:54:24 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2023 14:54:24 -0500
Subject: OS X document icon missing
In-Reply-To: <e2e592e8-d95a-492d-a4c1-34c4ecb32a68@researchware.com>
References: <758bcdba-ecf9-4477-9fbd-f81e966e6808@hyperactivesw.com>
 <e2e592e8-d95a-492d-a4c1-34c4ecb32a68@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <896476c5-3818-4b4b-82fc-c968a3757cd6@hyperactivesw.com>

On 10/18/23 10:35 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
> If you have identified the document extension in the Standalone setting for macOS and set an 
> ics file of icons (or the appropriate sizes required by Apple) than documents created by that 
> app should display the icon.

No go. Here is the relevant part of the plist:

<key>CFBundleDocumentTypes</key>
	<array>
		<dict>
			<key>CFBundleTypeExtensions</key>
			<array>
<string>.rbox</string>
			</array>
			<key>CFBundleTypeIconFile</key>
			<string>StandaloneDoc.icns</string>
			<key>CFBundleTypeName</key>
<string>Recipe Box Files</string>
			<key>CFBundleTypeOSTypes</key>
			<array>
<string>rbox</string>
			</array>
			<key>CFBundleTypeRole</key>
			<string>Editor</string>
		</dict>
	</array>


The app does not create new files, it just opens the existing stack, originally a LC file. I 
tried a "save as..." but that didn't work either. Is there a way to set the signature on an 
existing file? I did try and the stack wouldn't open, presumably it's corrupted.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From paul at researchware.com  Wed Oct 18 16:59:04 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2023 16:59:04 -0400
Subject: OS X document icon missing
In-Reply-To: <896476c5-3818-4b4b-82fc-c968a3757cd6@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <758bcdba-ecf9-4477-9fbd-f81e966e6808@hyperactivesw.com>
 <e2e592e8-d95a-492d-a4c1-34c4ecb32a68@researchware.com>
 <896476c5-3818-4b4b-82fc-c968a3757cd6@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <286e9bf7-0102-446f-b576-ca4197a33fcc@researchware.com>

Yes, that look right. The file extension is .rbox and the file type is 
'rbox' for 'Recipe Box Files'

I wonder since it only READS .rbox files and does not create them, if 
you need to context-click (CTRL-CLICK) on a .rbox file and select "Open 
With.." to see if your app (an reader of .rbox files) is in the list and 
open one to get macOS to associate viewing .rbox files with your App, 
since it does not actually create .rbox files?


On 10/18/2023 3:54 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
> On 10/18/23 10:35 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
>> If you have identified the document extension in the Standalone 
>> setting for macOS and set an ics file of icons (or the appropriate 
>> sizes required by Apple) than documents created by that app should 
>> display the icon.
>
> No go. Here is the relevant part of the plist:
>
> <key>CFBundleDocumentTypes</key>
>     <array>
>         <dict>
>             <key>CFBundleTypeExtensions</key>
>             <array>
> <string>.rbox</string>
>             </array>
>             <key>CFBundleTypeIconFile</key>
>             <string>StandaloneDoc.icns</string>
>             <key>CFBundleTypeName</key>
> <string>Recipe Box Files</string>
>             <key>CFBundleTypeOSTypes</key>
>             <array>
> <string>rbox</string>
>             </array>
>             <key>CFBundleTypeRole</key>
>             <string>Editor</string>
>         </dict>
>     </array>
>
>
> The app does not create new files, it just opens the existing stack, 
> originally a LC file. I tried a "save as..." but that didn't work 
> either. Is there a way to set the signature on an existing file? I did 
> try and the stack wouldn't open, presumably it's corrupted.
>



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Oct 18 18:18:03 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2023 17:18:03 -0500
Subject: OS X document icon missing
In-Reply-To: <286e9bf7-0102-446f-b576-ca4197a33fcc@researchware.com>
References: <758bcdba-ecf9-4477-9fbd-f81e966e6808@hyperactivesw.com>
 <e2e592e8-d95a-492d-a4c1-34c4ecb32a68@researchware.com>
 <896476c5-3818-4b4b-82fc-c968a3757cd6@hyperactivesw.com>
 <286e9bf7-0102-446f-b576-ca4197a33fcc@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <709627b9-929e-4dbf-9bef-12d82464613b@hyperactivesw.com>

My app is not in the "Open With..." list. I used "Other" to open the stack with my app. It 
worked but the document icon still did not show up in Finder.

My client says he double-clicks the Recipes stack to open LC (it's the only stack he has.) Once 
I assigned my standalone in Get Info it does work and Finder suggests it (and only it) when I 
choose "Open with...", but the document icon is still missing. Blech.

What I learned today: If your stack has a custom extension, LC will open it and you can do some 
basic things like navigation, but nothing else. Keyboard shortcuts don't work and the message 
box does not see the stack at all. Even if I do something non-stack-related ("put the 
fontnames") there is no response. The message box is totally broken. Double-clicking a control 
does not open the property inspector. Right-clicking with the Edit tool does not show a menu. 
When I changed the extension back to ".livecode" and restarted LC all works normally. Tested in 
9.6.9 and LC 9.6.10.

Double blech.

On 10/18/23 3:59 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
> Yes, that look right. The file extension is .rbox and the file type is 'rbox' for 'Recipe Box 
> Files'
> 
> I wonder since it only READS .rbox files and does not create them, if you need to context-click 
> (CTRL-CLICK) on a .rbox file and select "Open With.." to see if your app (an reader of .rbox 
> files) is in the list and open one to get macOS to associate viewing .rbox files with your App, 
> since it does not actually create .rbox files?
> 
> 
> On 10/18/2023 3:54 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
>> On 10/18/23 10:35 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
>>> If you have identified the document extension in the Standalone setting for macOS and set an 
>>> ics file of icons (or the appropriate sizes required by Apple) than documents created by 
>>> that app should display the icon.
>>
>> No go. Here is the relevant part of the plist:
>>
>> <key>CFBundleDocumentTypes</key>
>>     <array>
>>         <dict>
>>             <key>CFBundleTypeExtensions</key>
>>             <array>
>> <string>.rbox</string>
>>             </array>
>>             <key>CFBundleTypeIconFile</key>
>>             <string>StandaloneDoc.icns</string>
>>             <key>CFBundleTypeName</key>
>> <string>Recipe Box Files</string>
>>             <key>CFBundleTypeOSTypes</key>
>>             <array>
>> <string>rbox</string>
>>             </array>
>>             <key>CFBundleTypeRole</key>
>>             <string>Editor</string>
>>         </dict>
>>     </array>
>>
>>
>> The app does not create new files, it just opens the existing stack, originally a LC file. I 
>> tried a "save as..." but that didn't work either. Is there a way to set the signature on an 
>> existing file? I did try and the stack wouldn't open, presumably it's corrupted.
>>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From mark at livecode.com  Thu Oct 19 04:29:47 2023
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2023 09:29:47 +0100
Subject: OS X document icon missing
In-Reply-To: <896476c5-3818-4b4b-82fc-c968a3757cd6@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <758bcdba-ecf9-4477-9fbd-f81e966e6808@hyperactivesw.com>
 <e2e592e8-d95a-492d-a4c1-34c4ecb32a68@researchware.com>
 <896476c5-3818-4b4b-82fc-c968a3757cd6@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <0036db9f9ae533f16851c1f884eda372@livecode.com>

On 2023-10-18 20:54, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
> On 10/18/23 10:35 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
>> If you have identified the document extension in the Standalone 
>> setting for macOS and set an ics file of icons (or the appropriate 
>> sizes required by Apple) than documents created by that app should 
>> display the icon.
> 
> No go. Here is the relevant part of the plist:
> 
> <key>CFBundleDocumentTypes</key>
> 	<array>
> 		<dict>
> 			<key>CFBundleTypeExtensions</key>
> 			<array>
> <string>.rbox</string>
> 			</array>

The extension shouldn't have an initial `.` - I suspect that is the 
problem :)

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things


From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Oct 19 05:03:47 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2023 11:03:47 +0200
Subject: Google new API 33 requirements
Message-ID: <020B1F0E-405A-465C-828F-04B3225DA11A@major-k.de>

Hi friends,

I installed the build tools for API 33 and created an update
for my app.

In the STAB I selected : Minimum Android Version -> 8.0
and uploaded the app to Google.

Now I read in the Google Play Console this for my app:
...
API Level 26+
Target-SDK 33
...
However Google still shows me that my app is targeted to
Android Version 12 API 31!? 
Not sure if they mean the previous version I wanted to update?

Does that mean I have to select -> 13 (API 33) as the 
Minimum Android Version in the STAB?

If yes, is the app then still backwards-compatible with older 
devices/android versions? My tablet has Android version 8.0 installed.

Thanks for any hints!


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From merakosp at gmail.com  Thu Oct 19 05:42:55 2023
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2023 12:42:55 +0300
Subject: Google new API 33 requirements
In-Reply-To: <020B1F0E-405A-465C-828F-04B3225DA11A@major-k.de>
References: <020B1F0E-405A-465C-828F-04B3225DA11A@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq8jwKwkeHcP6R+KmXax810Ap+an1z3EB=XtoGCPt=waJg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Klaus,

*>>>>>Does that mean I have to select -> 13 (API 33) as the *
*Minimum Android Version in the STAB?*

Nope, if you select "13 (API 33)" in the android standalone application
settings it means your app will run only on devices that run Android 13+.

Regarding the warning/error you get from the Play Store - where (in which
track) did you upload your new build? Was it in the Production track, or in
any of the (Internal/External) Testing tracks?

Could you post a screenshot of the exact warning/error you get?

Also, I take it you used LiveCode 9.6.10 or 10.0.0 DP-6 to build the app,
since these versions build against API 33 - is that correct?

Moreover, note that you do not need the "SDK Build tools v33" - you need
"SDK Platform API 33". These are two different things. The version of the
SDK Build tools that are installed must be 31.0.0. I believe you have the
correct versions installed anyway, but I just mention it again to prevent
confusion :)

KInd regards,
Panos
--

On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 at 12:04, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi friends,
>
> I installed the build tools for API 33 and created an update
> for my app.
>
> In the STAB I selected : Minimum Android Version -> 8.0
> and uploaded the app to Google.
>
> Now I read in the Google Play Console this for my app:
> ...
> API Level 26+
> Target-SDK 33
> ...
> However Google still shows me that my app is targeted to
> Android Version 12 API 31!?
> Not sure if they mean the previous version I wanted to update?
>
> Does that mean I have to select -> 13 (API 33) as the
> Minimum Android Version in the STAB?
>
> If yes, is the app then still backwards-compatible with older
> devices/android versions? My tablet has Android version 8.0 installed.
>
> Thanks for any hints!
>
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Oct 19 05:56:49 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2023 11:56:49 +0200
Subject: Google new API 33 requirements
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq8jwKwkeHcP6R+KmXax810Ap+an1z3EB=XtoGCPt=waJg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <020B1F0E-405A-465C-828F-04B3225DA11A@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq8jwKwkeHcP6R+KmXax810Ap+an1z3EB=XtoGCPt=waJg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <384ABEDA-724D-420F-ABD6-CD8D7B0FA4D6@major-k.de>

Hi Panos,

> Am 19.10.2023 um 11:42 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hello Klaus,
> 
> *>>>>>Does that mean I have to select -> 13 (API 33) as the *
> *Minimum Android Version in the STAB?*
> 
> Nope, if you select "13 (API 33)" in the android standalone application
> settings it means your app will run only on devices that run Android 13+.

ah, thanks for confirmation.

> Regarding the warning/error you get from the Play Store - where (in which
> track) did you upload your new build? Was it in the Production track, or in
> any of the (Internal/External) Testing tracks?

My update is currently "in examination" in the Production track.
So I think that was more a general warning regarding my initial app.

Now I have to wait for the result of the examination.

> Could you post a screenshot of the exact warning/error you get?

See above...

> Also, I take it you used LiveCode 9.6.10 or 10.0.0 DP-6 to build the app,
> since these versions build against API 33 - is that correct?

Yes LC 9.6.10.

> Moreover, note that you do not need the "SDK Build tools v33" - you need
> "SDK Platform API 33". These are two different things. The version of the
> SDK Build tools that are installed must be 31.0.0. I believe you have the
> correct versions installed anyway, but I just mention it again to prevent
> confusion :)

Just checked what is checked in Android Studio:
SDK platform -> Android Tiramisu (Tiramisu) -> API Level 33
SDK Tools -> Android SDL Build-Tools 31.0.0
Check! :-)

Thank you for the quick answer!

> KInd regards,
> Panos

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From merakosp at gmail.com  Thu Oct 19 06:08:54 2023
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2023 13:08:54 +0300
Subject: Google new API 33 requirements
In-Reply-To: <384ABEDA-724D-420F-ABD6-CD8D7B0FA4D6@major-k.de>
References: <020B1F0E-405A-465C-828F-04B3225DA11A@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq8jwKwkeHcP6R+KmXax810Ap+an1z3EB=XtoGCPt=waJg@mail.gmail.com>
 <384ABEDA-724D-420F-ABD6-CD8D7B0FA4D6@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq8LtkcJpx3zh-n6+1fDao+uSXkMkAZhq665+vMA0TMTvQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Klaus,

Thank you for the update.

>>>>*So I think that was more a general warning regarding my initial app.*
 Ah, that should be it!

Cheers,
Panos

On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 at 12:57, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Panos,
>
> > Am 19.10.2023 um 11:42 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> >
> > Hello Klaus,
> >
> > *>>>>>Does that mean I have to select -> 13 (API 33) as the *
> > *Minimum Android Version in the STAB?*
> >
> > Nope, if you select "13 (API 33)" in the android standalone application
> > settings it means your app will run only on devices that run Android 13+.
>
> ah, thanks for confirmation.
>
> > Regarding the warning/error you get from the Play Store - where (in which
> > track) did you upload your new build? Was it in the Production track, or
> in
> > any of the (Internal/External) Testing tracks?
>
> My update is currently "in examination" in the Production track.
> So I think that was more a general warning regarding my initial app.
>
> Now I have to wait for the result of the examination.
>
> > Could you post a screenshot of the exact warning/error you get?
>
> See above...
>
> > Also, I take it you used LiveCode 9.6.10 or 10.0.0 DP-6 to build the app,
> > since these versions build against API 33 - is that correct?
>
> Yes LC 9.6.10.
>
> > Moreover, note that you do not need the "SDK Build tools v33" - you need
> > "SDK Platform API 33". These are two different things. The version of the
> > SDK Build tools that are installed must be 31.0.0. I believe you have the
> > correct versions installed anyway, but I just mention it again to prevent
> > confusion :)
>
> Just checked what is checked in Android Studio:
> SDK platform -> Android Tiramisu (Tiramisu) -> API Level 33
> SDK Tools -> Android SDL Build-Tools 31.0.0
> Check! :-)
>
> Thank you for the quick answer!
>
> > KInd regards,
> > Panos
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
>
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Oct 19 12:11:43 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2023 11:11:43 -0500
Subject: OS X document icon missing
In-Reply-To: <0036db9f9ae533f16851c1f884eda372@livecode.com>
References: <758bcdba-ecf9-4477-9fbd-f81e966e6808@hyperactivesw.com>
 <e2e592e8-d95a-492d-a4c1-34c4ecb32a68@researchware.com>
 <896476c5-3818-4b4b-82fc-c968a3757cd6@hyperactivesw.com>
 <0036db9f9ae533f16851c1f884eda372@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <18b48b4fe18.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

OMG. I didn't even see that! It's my eyes, they're terrible, and getting 
worse as years go by. Thanks for the proofreading. Those little dots are 
the worst.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On October 19, 2023 3:31:18 AM Mark Waddingham via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On 2023-10-18 20:54, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
>> On 10/18/23 10:35 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
>>> If you have identified the document extension in the Standalone
>>> setting for macOS and set an ics file of icons (or the appropriate
>>> sizes required by Apple) than documents created by that app should
>>> display the icon.
>>
>> No go. Here is the relevant part of the plist:
>>
>> <key>CFBundleDocumentTypes</key>
>> 	<array>
>> 		<dict>
>> 			<key>CFBundleTypeExtensions</key>
>> 			<array>
>> <string>.rbox</string>
>> 			</array>
>
> The extension shouldn't have an initial `.` - I suspect that is the
> problem :)
>
> Warmest Regards,
>
> Mark.
>
> --
> Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Build Amazing Things
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Oct 19 17:37:16 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2023 16:37:16 -0500
Subject: OS X document icon missing
In-Reply-To: <0036db9f9ae533f16851c1f884eda372@livecode.com>
References: <758bcdba-ecf9-4477-9fbd-f81e966e6808@hyperactivesw.com>
 <e2e592e8-d95a-492d-a4c1-34c4ecb32a68@researchware.com>
 <896476c5-3818-4b4b-82fc-c968a3757cd6@hyperactivesw.com>
 <0036db9f9ae533f16851c1f884eda372@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <704b342a-df72-4342-af40-2d92e0f8953b@hyperactivesw.com>

On 10/19/23 3:29 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:
> The extension shouldn't have an initial `.` - I suspect that is the problem :)

That was it. I had to "Get Info" on the file before Finder noticed, but then the icon showed 
up. I didn't even know the dot was there; I knew it shouldn't be.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From paul at researchware.com  Thu Oct 19 18:40:02 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2023 18:40:02 -0400
Subject: OS X document icon missing
In-Reply-To: <704b342a-df72-4342-af40-2d92e0f8953b@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <758bcdba-ecf9-4477-9fbd-f81e966e6808@hyperactivesw.com>
 <e2e592e8-d95a-492d-a4c1-34c4ecb32a68@researchware.com>
 <896476c5-3818-4b4b-82fc-c968a3757cd6@hyperactivesw.com>
 <0036db9f9ae533f16851c1f884eda372@livecode.com>
 <704b342a-df72-4342-af40-2d92e0f8953b@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <258e65ad-2d9f-4f9f-a2a1-b2dcf49531cb@researchware.com>

On 10/19/2023 5:37 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
> On 10/19/23 3:29 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:
>> The extension shouldn't have an initial `.` - I suspect that is the 
>> problem :)
>
> That was it. I had to "Get Info" on the file before Finder noticed, 
> but then the icon showed up. I didn't even know the dot was there; I 
> knew it shouldn't be.
>

I someone who write a commercial software tool for researchers, I fully 
realize that a software vendor can not complete protect users from 
themselves. That said, a small Livecode enhancement might be a check if 
the file extension field starts with a . and either just remove it or 
warn the user :-)


From david.bovill at gmail.com  Fri Oct 20 11:08:46 2023
From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2023 16:08:46 +0100
Subject: Mdiai Keys - volume / play/pause/next...
Message-ID: <CAGASioOBRn=eZG36whjurpzgRp4zKL1ZUkMZG9zhF54tt_gfoA@mail.gmail.com>

Is there a way to trap for these keyboard events.

Volume and Media Keys: In the HID standard, volume and media control keys
often have specific usage IDs. For example:


   - 0xE9 is for volume up.
   - 0xEA is for volume down.
   - 0xE2 is for mute.
   - 0xCD is for play/pauseetc

From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Oct 20 18:37:19 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2023 22:37:19 +0000
Subject: Livecode Debugger
Message-ID: <8B2F35CA-CE80-4F3B-AC5B-682C0D08F63F@iotecdigital.com>

Hi all. 

I am now getting the dreaded Livecode Debugger code error and the stack is password protected. This is when launching a stack in LC 9.6.10 rc1. I would love to troubleshoot this as no one should be getting an error in a stack provided by RunRev. I just need the password. This is probably an unreasonable request, but if someone knows that password, I want to unlock the stack and see where it’s going bad. 

Bob S


From david.bovill at gmail.com  Fri Oct 20 18:39:57 2023
From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2023 23:39:57 +0100
Subject: Media Keys - volume / play/pause/next...
In-Reply-To: <CAGASioOBRn=eZG36whjurpzgRp4zKL1ZUkMZG9zhF54tt_gfoA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGASioOBRn=eZG36whjurpzgRp4zKL1ZUkMZG9zhF54tt_gfoA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGASioP9s-oUAw2ggqTGgs8oOASo-oN8aci8MiRkWMs5y19Dfg@mail.gmail.com>

Surprisingly difficult. There are a couple of apps that let you customize
play/pause interactions from the keyboard - but they dont work when sent
from other devices such as earbuds. Livecode does not seem to read these
events either....

On Fri, 20 Oct 2023 at 16:08, David Bovill <david.bovill at gmail.com> wrote:

> Is there a way to trap for these keyboard events.
>
> Volume and Media Keys: In the HID standard, volume and media control keys
> often have specific usage IDs. For example:
>
>
>    - 0xE9 is for volume up.
>    - 0xEA is for volume down.
>    - 0xE2 is for mute.
>    - 0xCD is for play/pauseetc
>
>

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Oct 20 19:41:53 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2023 18:41:53 -0500
Subject: Media Keys - volume / play/pause/next...
In-Reply-To: <CAGASioP9s-oUAw2ggqTGgs8oOASo-oN8aci8MiRkWMs5y19Dfg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGASioOBRn=eZG36whjurpzgRp4zKL1ZUkMZG9zhF54tt_gfoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGASioP9s-oUAw2ggqTGgs8oOASo-oN8aci8MiRkWMs5y19Dfg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <18b4f777de8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

If rawKeyDown/Up doesn't catch them then I assume the OS isn't sending the 
keycodes to apps.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On October 20, 2023 5:42:05 PM David Bovill via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Surprisingly difficult. There are a couple of apps that let you customize
> play/pause interactions from the keyboard - but they dont work when sent
> from other devices such as earbuds. Livecode does not seem to read these
> events either....
>
> On Fri, 20 Oct 2023 at 16:08, David Bovill <david.bovill at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Is there a way to trap for these keyboard events.
>>
>> Volume and Media Keys: In the HID standard, volume and media control keys
>> often have specific usage IDs. For example:
>>
>>
>>    - 0xE9 is for volume up.
>>    - 0xEA is for volume down.
>>    - 0xE2 is for mute.
>>    - 0xCD is for play/pauseetc
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From paul at researchware.com  Fri Oct 20 21:04:23 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2023 21:04:23 -0400
Subject: Mdiai Keys - volume / play/pause/next...
In-Reply-To: <CAGASioOBRn=eZG36whjurpzgRp4zKL1ZUkMZG9zhF54tt_gfoA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGASioOBRn=eZG36whjurpzgRp4zKL1ZUkMZG9zhF54tt_gfoA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <34400d16-f0bf-47a9-adc1-3673f1809313@researchware.com>

When I try on Windows 11 using Livecode 9.6.10 a rawKeyDown or rawkeyUp 
message, the media keys on my HP laptop all return 0 as the keyCode, so 
I think this is a bug of some sort that should be reported to the 
Livecode Quality Center https://quality.livecode.com/

The keyDown or keyUp message does not get sent. the OS (Win11) 
apparently intercepts and raises/lowers/mutes the volume or play/pause 
as applicable.


On 10/20/2023 11:08 AM, David Bovill via use-livecode wrote:
> Is there a way to trap for these keyboard events.
>
> Volume and Media Keys: In the HID standard, volume and media control keys
> often have specific usage IDs. For example:
>
>
>     - 0xE9 is for volume up.
>     - 0xEA is for volume down.
>     - 0xE2 is for mute.
>     - 0xCD is for play/pauseetc
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From david.bovill at gmail.com  Sat Oct 21 06:22:59 2023
From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill)
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2023 11:22:59 +0100
Subject: Mdiai Keys - volume / play/pause/next...
In-Reply-To: <34400d16-f0bf-47a9-adc1-3673f1809313@researchware.com>
References: <CAGASioOBRn=eZG36whjurpzgRp4zKL1ZUkMZG9zhF54tt_gfoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <34400d16-f0bf-47a9-adc1-3673f1809313@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <CAGASioO23XXNO12VQyj+38ZEfd3qFPHoECk0BOoRZCeegQaqeg@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for noting that on Windows. Nothing is sent on MacOS - at least M2
Macbook Air.

I filed a report - please vote -
https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=24375

On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 at 02:05, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> When I try on Windows 11 using Livecode 9.6.10 a rawKeyDown or rawkeyUp
> message, the media keys on my HP laptop all return 0 as the keyCode, so
> I think this is a bug of some sort that should be reported to the
> Livecode Quality Center https://quality.livecode.com/
>
> The keyDown or keyUp message does not get sent. the OS (Win11)
> apparently intercepts and raises/lowers/mutes the volume or play/pause
> as applicable.
>
>
> On 10/20/2023 11:08 AM, David Bovill via use-livecode wrote:
> > Is there a way to trap for these keyboard events.
> >
> > Volume and Media Keys: In the HID standard, volume and media control keys
> > often have specific usage IDs. For example:
> >
> >
> >     - 0xE9 is for volume up.
> >     - 0xEA is for volume down.
> >     - 0xE2 is for mute.
> >     - 0xCD is for play/pauseetc
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From klaus at major-k.de  Sat Oct 21 06:27:03 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2023 12:27:03 +0200
Subject: Mdiai Keys - volume / play/pause/next...
In-Reply-To: <CAGASioO23XXNO12VQyj+38ZEfd3qFPHoECk0BOoRZCeegQaqeg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGASioOBRn=eZG36whjurpzgRp4zKL1ZUkMZG9zhF54tt_gfoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <34400d16-f0bf-47a9-adc1-3673f1809313@researchware.com>
 <CAGASioO23XXNO12VQyj+38ZEfd3qFPHoECk0BOoRZCeegQaqeg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7F07D4CD-ECB5-4684-8B26-F6645946FA1B@major-k.de>

Hi David,

> Am 21.10.2023 um 12:22 schrieb David Bovill via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Thanks for noting that on Windows. Nothing is sent on MacOS - at least M2
> Macbook Air.

same here, macOS 12.7, MacMini Intel.
No rawkey sent...

> I filed a report - please vote -
> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=24375
> 
> On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 at 02:05, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> When I try on Windows 11 using Livecode 9.6.10 a rawKeyDown or rawkeyUp
>> message, the media keys on my HP laptop all return 0 as the keyCode, so
>> I think this is a bug of some sort that should be reported to the
>> Livecode Quality Center https://quality.livecode.com/
>> 
>> The keyDown or keyUp message does not get sent. the OS (Win11)
>> apparently intercepts and raises/lowers/mutes the volume or play/pause
>> as applicable.
>> 
>> 
>> On 10/20/2023 11:08 AM, David Bovill via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Is there a way to trap for these keyboard events.
>>> 
>>> Volume and Media Keys: In the HID standard, volume and media control keys
>>> often have specific usage IDs. For example:
>>>    - 0xE9 is for volume up.
>>>    - 0xEA is for volume down.
>>>    - 0xE2 is for mute.
>>>    - 0xCD is for play/pauseetc

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From david.bovill at gmail.com  Sat Oct 21 06:38:26 2023
From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill)
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2023 11:38:26 +0100
Subject: Media Keys - volume / play/pause/next...
In-Reply-To: <18b4f777de8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <CAGASioOBRn=eZG36whjurpzgRp4zKL1ZUkMZG9zhF54tt_gfoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGASioP9s-oUAw2ggqTGgs8oOASo-oN8aci8MiRkWMs5y19Dfg@mail.gmail.com>
 <18b4f777de8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <CAGASioPDh7cNh_iFq8PYFoZuF=8hBt4ha0DBHaeR+R=pLEOdaA@mail.gmail.com>

>
>
> The media key events are sent. Several apps accept them, and you can
> customise what they do with https://github.com/pqrs-org/Karabiner-Elements
> which works robustly.
>
> Media key input from peripherals such as keyboards or earbuds typically
> adheres to the Human Interface Device (HID) standard
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_interface_device#HID_standard>.
> Common media controls you might find include:
>
>    - Play/Pause: Toggles between play and pause for media playback.
>    - Stop: Stops the media playback.
>    - Next Track: Advances to the next track or chapter.
>    - Previous Track: Returns to the previous track or chapter.
>    - Volume Up: Increases the volume.
>    - Volume Down: Decreases the volume.
>    - Mute: Mutes or unmutes the audio.
>
> The way earbuds communicate with devices can also depend on the specific
> connection protocol they use. Bluetooth headphones and earbuds use the Audio/Video
> Remote Control Profile (AVRCP)
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bluetooth_profiles#Audio/Video_Remote_Control_Profile_(AVRCP)>
> to control playback (e.g., play, pause, volume control) on the paired
> device.
>


> On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 at 00:43, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> If rawKeyDown/Up doesn't catch them then I assume the OS isn't sending the
> keycodes to apps.
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On October 20, 2023 5:42:05 PM David Bovill via use-livecode
> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > Surprisingly difficult. There are a couple of apps that let you customize
> > play/pause interactions from the keyboard - but they dont work when sent
> > from other devices such as earbuds. Livecode does not seem to read these
> > events either....
> >
> > On Fri, 20 Oct 2023 at 16:08, David Bovill <david.bovill at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Is there a way to trap for these keyboard events.
> >>
> >> Volume and Media Keys: In the HID standard, volume and media control
> keys
> >> often have specific usage IDs. For example:
> >>
> >>
> >>    - 0xE9 is for volume up.
> >>    - 0xEA is for volume down.
> >>    - 0xE2 is for mute.
> >>    - 0xCD is for play/pauseetc
> >>
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From david.bovill at gmail.com  Sun Oct 22 05:41:02 2023
From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill)
Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2023 10:41:02 +0100
Subject: Me and target of script widgets
In-Reply-To: <CAGASioPDh7cNh_iFq8PYFoZuF=8hBt4ha0DBHaeR+R=pLEOdaA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGASioOBRn=eZG36whjurpzgRp4zKL1ZUkMZG9zhF54tt_gfoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGASioP9s-oUAw2ggqTGgs8oOASo-oN8aci8MiRkWMs5y19Dfg@mail.gmail.com>
 <18b4f777de8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CAGASioPDh7cNh_iFq8PYFoZuF=8hBt4ha0DBHaeR+R=pLEOdaA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGASioP7evW+ELO53B4_41BkUqc=yNMuJQmcbu4h1Vywtd2tAA@mail.gmail.com>

Having my first go at script widgets. It appears that there is either an
issue (or it is a feature) with script widgets and "me"?

A handler like this:

*on* mouseUp

*## All references are to "inner" controls (ie the target) and not the
group*

*put* the short id of me into shortID

*put* the long id of the target into sName

*put* the long id of me into myID

*## Have to be explicit with messages*

*-- dispatch "menu_AskEdit" to me -- or the target does not work*

*dispatch* "menu_AskEdit" to this card with myID,shortID

*end* mouseUp

When inside a script only widget shows that would normally pass the long id
of the control clicked on within the group (script widget) with myID and
the short ID of the group (script widget) itself in shortID. However both
the target and me refer to the control and not the group / script widget.
It seems there is no easy way to find out a reference to "me" in a
script widget?

I've a lot of scripts that use "me" in behaviors for potential script
widgets - so looking for a short term and long term solution for this?

From alex at tweedly.net  Sun Oct 22 06:01:15 2023
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2023 11:01:15 +0100
Subject: Me and target of script widgets
In-Reply-To: <CAGASioP7evW+ELO53B4_41BkUqc=yNMuJQmcbu4h1Vywtd2tAA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGASioOBRn=eZG36whjurpzgRp4zKL1ZUkMZG9zhF54tt_gfoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGASioP9s-oUAw2ggqTGgs8oOASo-oN8aci8MiRkWMs5y19Dfg@mail.gmail.com>
 <18b4f777de8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CAGASioPDh7cNh_iFq8PYFoZuF=8hBt4ha0DBHaeR+R=pLEOdaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGASioP7evW+ELO53B4_41BkUqc=yNMuJQmcbu4h1Vywtd2tAA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8b10d8d6-52aa-44e7-98d2-2e5d72e2424e@tweedly.net>

Brutal answer :-)

Script widgets aren't ready for release yet. They have (effectivtely) no 
documentation, no examples, no lessons.

Unless you have a desparate need to do it now, I'd suggest waiting until 
they are somewhere near ready.

Alex.

On 22/10/2023 10:41, David Bovill via use-livecode wrote:
> Having my first go at script widgets. It appears that there is either an
> issue (or it is a feature) with script widgets and "me"?
>
> A handler like this:
>
> *on* mouseUp
>
> *## All references are to "inner" controls (ie the target) and not the
> group*
>
> *put* the short id of me into shortID
>
> *put* the long id of the target into sName
>
> *put* the long id of me into myID
>
> *## Have to be explicit with messages*
>
> *-- dispatch "menu_AskEdit" to me -- or the target does not work*
>
> *dispatch* "menu_AskEdit" to this card with myID,shortID
>
> *end* mouseUp
>
> When inside a script only widget shows that would normally pass the long id
> of the control clicked on within the group (script widget) with myID and
> the short ID of the group (script widget) itself in shortID. However both
> the target and me refer to the control and not the group / script widget.
> It seems there is no easy way to find out a reference to "me" in a
> script widget?
>
> I've a lot of scripts that use "me" in behaviors for potential script
> widgets - so looking for a short term and long term solution for this?
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From klaus at major-k.de  Sun Oct 22 08:34:23 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2023 14:34:23 +0200
Subject: ANDROID player won't play MP3 from server but locally?
Message-ID: <5DE2B35A-B785-4D51-85CF-737E8A7DFA13@major-k.de>

Hi friends,

I'm having problems to play a MP3 (5 MB) from my server.
And yes, I waited up to a minute before I closed the app.
Works fine when I play it locally.

The device is connected via (not slow) W-Lan to the internet.

LC 9.6.10, macOS 12.7, Android 8.01

I created two buttons for create and delete and put this into the card script
-------------------------------------------------
command create_player

   ## This creates a black rect and nothing more?!
   ## I don't even see the ANSWER at the end of the script
   put "https://www.major-k.de/blueprint.mp3" into tURL

   ## Works immediately when using Safari browser on my Mac, 
   ## so the file is definitively there and URL correct!

   ## And yes, I added SSL & Encryption neccessary for -> httpS

   ## This works as advertised
   ## put specialfolderpath("resources") & "/blueprint.mp3" into tURL
   mobilecontrolCreate "player", "mplayer"
   mobileControlSet "mplayer", "visible", TRUE

   ## That grc is hidden:
   mobileControlSet "mplayer", "rect", (the rect of grc "player")
   mobileControlSet "mplayer", "backgroundcolor", "213,143,116"
   
   mobileControlSet "mplayer", "showController", TRUE
   mobileControlSet "mplayer", "filename", tURL
   
   if mobileControlGet("mplayer", "duration") = 0 then
      answer "Player is not initialised correctly"
   end if
   mobileControlDo "mplayer", "play"
end create_player

command delete_player
   mobileControlDo "mplayer", "stop"
   mobileControlDelete "player", "mplayer"
end delete_player
------------------------------------------------
Most of the time I have to tap the "delete" button at least 5 times or more 
before the player finally disappears?
However the sound stops immediately at the first tap!?

What am I missing?
Thanks for any hint!


Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From klaus at major-k.de  Sun Oct 22 08:42:28 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2023 14:42:28 +0200
Subject: ANDROID player won't play MP3 from server but locally? 2
Message-ID: <CCF4B261-01BC-4F55-9EE0-E8C86E968168@major-k.de>

Hi friends,

OK, found at least the DELETE problem... 8-)

command delete_player
 mobileControlDo "mplayer", "stop"
  ## mobileControlDelete "player", "mplayer"

 ## has to be:
 mobileControlDelete "mplayer"
end delete_player


Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From Bernd.Niggemann at uni-wh.de  Sun Oct 22 12:48:55 2023
From: Bernd.Niggemann at uni-wh.de (Niggemann, Bernd)
Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2023 16:48:55 +0000
Subject: Me and target of script widgets
Message-ID: <2390B2A5-E97C-408D-9D1A-8EC2730B50FE@uni-wh.de>

Hi David,

Stam Kapetanakis has done a script widget which can be found at

https://github.com/stam66/tristate/blob/main/com.sk.widget.tristate.livecodescript

Script Widgets are new and a bit special. Not as much as LCB but still.
You can use Stam's widget as a template of a working script widget.
I learned a lot from it.

Kind regards
Bernd

From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Mon Oct 23 09:09:39 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 09:09:39 -0400
Subject: Me and target of script widgets
In-Reply-To: <8b10d8d6-52aa-44e7-98d2-2e5d72e2424e@tweedly.net>
References: <CAGASioOBRn=eZG36whjurpzgRp4zKL1ZUkMZG9zhF54tt_gfoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGASioP9s-oUAw2ggqTGgs8oOASo-oN8aci8MiRkWMs5y19Dfg@mail.gmail.com>
 <18b4f777de8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CAGASioPDh7cNh_iFq8PYFoZuF=8hBt4ha0DBHaeR+R=pLEOdaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGASioP7evW+ELO53B4_41BkUqc=yNMuJQmcbu4h1Vywtd2tAA@mail.gmail.com>
 <8b10d8d6-52aa-44e7-98d2-2e5d72e2424e@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <CADCoycN9aBPmpu=hTZdW2nhkUv9-OBVgWbwweYL-Y-CLyHRaJQ@mail.gmail.com>

also brutal answer:
documentation needs to be not just extended, but written for the property
inspector and property editor, or you are going to be spinning your wheels
trying to figure out that thing, too.
this same issue has made writing lcb widgets so exceptionally painful that
i've stopped wasting my time.
the answer from the mothership has been "if you have some specific
question, ask," which, of course leads to a slew of questions, which then
go mostly or entirely unanswered.

On Sun, Oct 22, 2023 at 6:01 AM Alex Tweedly via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Brutal answer :-)
>
> Script widgets aren't ready for release yet. They have (effectivtely) no
> documentation, no examples, no lessons.
>
> Unless you have a desparate need to do it now, I'd suggest waiting until
> they are somewhere near ready.
>
> Alex.
>
> On 22/10/2023 10:41, David Bovill via use-livecode wrote:
> > Having my first go at script widgets. It appears that there is either an
> > issue (or it is a feature) with script widgets and "me"?
> >
> > A handler like this:
> >
> > *on* mouseUp
> >
> > *## All references are to "inner" controls (ie the target) and not the
> > group*
> >
> > *put* the short id of me into shortID
> >
> > *put* the long id of the target into sName
> >
> > *put* the long id of me into myID
> >
> > *## Have to be explicit with messages*
> >
> > *-- dispatch "menu_AskEdit" to me -- or the target does not work*
> >
> > *dispatch* "menu_AskEdit" to this card with myID,shortID
> >
> > *end* mouseUp
> >
> > When inside a script only widget shows that would normally pass the long
> id
> > of the control clicked on within the group (script widget) with myID and
> > the short ID of the group (script widget) itself in shortID. However both
> > the target and me refer to the control and not the group / script widget.
> > It seems there is no easy way to find out a reference to "me" in a
> > script widget?
> >
> > I've a lot of scripts that use "me" in behaviors for potential script
> > widgets - so looking for a short term and long term solution for this?
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com  Mon Oct 23 09:54:27 2023
From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Eller, Roger)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 13:54:27 +0000
Subject: Windows Standalone strands windows tasks
In-Reply-To: <SJ0PR02MB75335F1B8A9BA620BA744193B2D3A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533F0AE31AA9A3E67B47373B2D3A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <632618A9-F5A1-4245-BC4D-4B87C943F220@major-k.de>
 <SJ0PR02MB75335F1B8A9BA620BA744193B2D3A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <BN8PR14MB2913EC6A7DF0543EFBEEE1FBAFD8A@BN8PR14MB2913.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>

I primarily develop for Windows, and haven't experienced this since my early rookie years.  I believe the secret is to have the line "set destroyStack to true" in every stack so that when it closes, nothing lingers in memory.  Then, when you actually quit, it all goes away.


~Roger

________________________________
From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> on behalf of Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2023 12:42 PM
To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Cc: Bob Sneidar <bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com>
Subject: RE: Windows Standalone strands windows tasks


CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.



Thanks I'll give that a try. I think I am already quitting the splash stack, because my MacOS works properly, but the second part I never knew about. Unfortunately my Apple laptop is in the shop so I won't be able to test until Monday.

Bob S

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> On Behalf Of Klaus major-k via use-livecode
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2023 9:20 AM
To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Cc: Klaus major-k <klaus at major-k.de>
Subject: Re: Windows Standalone strands windows tasks

Hi Bob,

> Am 12.10.2023 um 17:36 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>
> Hi all.
>
> I have a standalone that uses a splash stack, which upon launch displays a startup graphic, then hides itself and opens the mainstack of my project. On MacOS when I "quit" the entire application quits. On Windows however the splash stack (which is the stack the standalone is built from) keeps running, and if I re-launch the standalone it creates a second instance of the app in memory.
>
> How do I get the standalone to quit when I close the mainstack in Windows?

add this to the script your mainstack:
-------------------------
on closestack
  close stack "your splash stack here"
  ## do more closestack stuff
end closestack
-------------------------
That should do the trick.

Hint:
To avoid this "Windows feature:
>> if I re-launch the standalone it creates a second instance of the app in memory.
add a dummy handler to your standalone/splash stack script:
-------------------------
on relaunch
   ## NADA!
end relaunch
-------------------------

> Bob S

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major

From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Mon Oct 23 11:22:13 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 15:22:13 +0000
Subject: Mdiai Keys - volume / play/pause/next...
In-Reply-To: <CAGASioOBRn=eZG36whjurpzgRp4zKL1ZUkMZG9zhF54tt_gfoA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGASioOBRn=eZG36whjurpzgRp4zKL1ZUkMZG9zhF54tt_gfoA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CC425B8D-2602-4D58-AA41-41BD6EABE0AB@iotecdigital.com>

I have in the past was unable to trap a key event for arrow keys. I think Jacque is right I do not think the system deals with arrow keys the way other keys work. They do not send any kind of ascii code, so LC would have to monitor them differently. Does the insert, home page up and page down buttons return anything? If not then I think that validates the idea that LC is only looking for ASCII style events. 

Bob S


> On Oct 20, 2023, at 8:08 AM, David Bovill via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Is there a way to trap for these keyboard events.
> 
> Volume and Media Keys: In the HID standard, volume and media control keys
> often have specific usage IDs. For example:
> 
> 
>   - 0xE9 is for volume up.
>   - 0xEA is for volume down.
>   - 0xE2 is for mute.
>   - 0xCD is for play/pauseetc
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Mon Oct 23 11:33:32 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 15:33:32 +0000
Subject: Mdiai Keys - volume / play/pause/next...
In-Reply-To: <CC425B8D-2602-4D58-AA41-41BD6EABE0AB@iotecdigital.com>
References: <CAGASioOBRn=eZG36whjurpzgRp4zKL1ZUkMZG9zhF54tt_gfoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CC425B8D-2602-4D58-AA41-41BD6EABE0AB@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <E98AB499-F9C9-4DC4-9FA3-69884C11845A@iotecdigital.com>

Whoops! You were talking about media keys of course. I DO get values in a rawKeyUp handler for arrow keys and the others I mentioned. Not for the media keys though. You can just see why. All the other keys are part of a standard ANSI style keyboard. The media keys are not so far as I can tell, as common as it is to have them on a virtually every desktop keyboard these days. 

Bob S


> On Oct 23, 2023, at 8:22 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I have in the past was unable to trap a key event for arrow keys. I think Jacque is right I do not think the system deals with arrow keys the way other keys work. They do not send any kind of ascii code, so LC would have to monitor them differently. Does the insert, home page up and page down buttons return anything? If not then I think that validates the idea that LC is only looking for ASCII style events. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Oct 20, 2023, at 8:08 AM, David Bovill via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Is there a way to trap for these keyboard events.
>> 
>> Volume and Media Keys: In the HID standard, volume and media control keys
>> often have specific usage IDs. For example:
>> 
>> 
>>  - 0xE9 is for volume up.
>>  - 0xEA is for volume down.
>>  - 0xE2 is for mute.
>>  - 0xCD is for play/pauseetc
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Oct 23 11:40:02 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 17:40:02 +0200
Subject: PolyGrid: UNhilite a row?
Message-ID: <D465FDB6-2851-45CF-96DD-B3B9A98ACC5F@major-k.de>

Hi friends,

I cannot UN-hilite a row in a polygrid?!
I tried:
...
set the hilitedrow of widget "index" to "0"
...
set the hilitedrow of widget "index" to 0
...
set the pgHilitedText of widget "index" to ""
...
set the pgHilitedText of widget "index" to EMPTY
...
no dice!?

I use the latest version of the "Widget pack".
Thanks in advance!


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Mon Oct 23 12:50:38 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 12:50:38 -0400
Subject: PolyGrid: UNhilite a row?
In-Reply-To: <D465FDB6-2851-45CF-96DD-B3B9A98ACC5F@major-k.de>
References: <D465FDB6-2851-45CF-96DD-B3B9A98ACC5F@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <CADCoycNb=Wh4cXooHPbPUAzbEKSWRJp1W9LDroqYtmADqvC+2w@mail.gmail.com>

interesting. it works for me. i use the numeric version (set the hilited
row of widget "pg" to 0

On Mon, Oct 23, 2023 at 11:40 AM Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi friends,
>
> I cannot UN-hilite a row in a polygrid?!
> I tried:
> ...
> set the hilitedrow of widget "index" to "0"
> ...
> set the hilitedrow of widget "index" to 0
> ...
> set the pgHilitedText of widget "index" to ""
> ...
> set the pgHilitedText of widget "index" to EMPTY
> ...
> no dice!?
>
> I use the latest version of the "Widget pack".
> Thanks in advance!
>
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Mon Oct 23 12:51:44 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 12:51:44 -0400
Subject: PolyGrid: UNhilite a row?
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycNb=Wh4cXooHPbPUAzbEKSWRJp1W9LDroqYtmADqvC+2w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D465FDB6-2851-45CF-96DD-B3B9A98ACC5F@major-k.de>
 <CADCoycNb=Wh4cXooHPbPUAzbEKSWRJp1W9LDroqYtmADqvC+2w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycMxo2rPAMiRKE5s7uf6HpP0nO7Z19z-_SuN=ouTXGx+Gw@mail.gmail.com>

what event are you setting it in? i have had issues with the widgets not
responding to appearance updates in preopencard, but i don't have a great
recipe for it.

On Mon, Oct 23, 2023 at 12:50 PM Mike Kerner <MikeKerner at roadrunner.com>
wrote:

> interesting. it works for me. i use the numeric version (set the hilited
> row of widget "pg" to 0
>
> On Mon, Oct 23, 2023 at 11:40 AM Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi friends,
>>
>> I cannot UN-hilite a row in a polygrid?!
>> I tried:
>> ...
>> set the hilitedrow of widget "index" to "0"
>> ...
>> set the hilitedrow of widget "index" to 0
>> ...
>> set the pgHilitedText of widget "index" to ""
>> ...
>> set the pgHilitedText of widget "index" to EMPTY
>> ...
>> no dice!?
>>
>> I use the latest version of the "Widget pack".
>> Thanks in advance!
>>
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Klaus
>> --
>> Klaus Major
>> https://www.major-k.de
>> https://www.major-k.de/bass
>> klaus at major-k.de
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>    and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Oct 23 13:03:12 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 19:03:12 +0200
Subject: PolyGrid: UNhilite a row?
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycMxo2rPAMiRKE5s7uf6HpP0nO7Z19z-_SuN=ouTXGx+Gw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D465FDB6-2851-45CF-96DD-B3B9A98ACC5F@major-k.de>
 <CADCoycNb=Wh4cXooHPbPUAzbEKSWRJp1W9LDroqYtmADqvC+2w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADCoycMxo2rPAMiRKE5s7uf6HpP0nO7Z19z-_SuN=ouTXGx+Gw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <16C759D8-CAC4-4429-9A42-6D1865E31DC9@major-k.de>

Hi Mike,

> Am 23.10.2023 um 18:51 schrieb Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> what event are you setting it in? i have had issues with the widgets not
> responding to appearance updates in preopencard, but i don't have a great
> recipe for it.

See here, I have a long list of PDF files and clicking the widget "index" will filter the PDF list with that char.
<https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ygmnzx3s7pvknpbycvi6z/index_polygrid.png?rlkey=c4as77jo96c0e2em3bde9tpk8&dl=0>

Clicking button "A-Z" will the display all the files.
I need to UNhilite the index in that button.

No idea why it does not work? But the workaround does, so problem solved (for me and for now).

> On Mon, Oct 23, 2023 at 12:50 PM Mike Kerner <MikeKerner at roadrunner.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> interesting. it works for me. i use the numeric version (set the hilited
>> row of widget "pg" to 0
>> 
>> On Mon, Oct 23, 2023 at 11:40 AM Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi friends,
>>> 
>>> I cannot UN-hilite a row in a polygrid?!
>>> I tried:
>>> ...
>>> set the hilitedrow of widget "index" to "0"
>>> ...
>>> set the hilitedrow of widget "index" to 0
>>> ...
>>> set the pgHilitedText of widget "index" to ""
>>> ...
>>> set the pgHilitedText of widget "index" to EMPTY
>>> ...
>>> no dice!?
>>> 
>>> I use the latest version of the "Widget pack".
>>> Thanks in advance!

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From ahsoftware at sonic.net  Mon Oct 23 13:08:49 2023
From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 10:08:49 -0700
Subject: PolyGrid: UNhilite a row?
In-Reply-To: <16C759D8-CAC4-4429-9A42-6D1865E31DC9@major-k.de>
References: <D465FDB6-2851-45CF-96DD-B3B9A98ACC5F@major-k.de>
 <CADCoycNb=Wh4cXooHPbPUAzbEKSWRJp1W9LDroqYtmADqvC+2w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADCoycMxo2rPAMiRKE5s7uf6HpP0nO7Z19z-_SuN=ouTXGx+Gw@mail.gmail.com>
 <16C759D8-CAC4-4429-9A42-6D1865E31DC9@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <8c13ed7c-2e28-4d17-b1e6-c5f1590f55e6@sonic.net>

On 10/23/23 10:03, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:

> See here, I have a long list of PDF files and clicking the widget "index" will filter the PDF list with that char.
> <https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ygmnzx3s7pvknpbycvi6z/index_polygrid.png?rlkey=c4as77jo96c0e2em3bde9tpk8&dl=0>

Davy's On The Road Again!
Score points for coolness.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Mon Oct 23 13:09:22 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 13:09:22 -0400
Subject: PolyGrid: UNhilite a row?
In-Reply-To: <16C759D8-CAC4-4429-9A42-6D1865E31DC9@major-k.de>
References: <D465FDB6-2851-45CF-96DD-B3B9A98ACC5F@major-k.de>
 <CADCoycNb=Wh4cXooHPbPUAzbEKSWRJp1W9LDroqYtmADqvC+2w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADCoycMxo2rPAMiRKE5s7uf6HpP0nO7Z19z-_SuN=ouTXGx+Gw@mail.gmail.com>
 <16C759D8-CAC4-4429-9A42-6D1865E31DC9@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <CADCoycOaNG1naKGmmuWX7U2ud+PH1Yu9OczhiU7-03=BSyz9cg@mail.gmail.com>

unfortunately, all i can see is the png file. i can't download the stack to
see what's going on.

On Mon, Oct 23, 2023 at 1:03 PM Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Mike,
>
> > Am 23.10.2023 um 18:51 schrieb Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> >
> > what event are you setting it in? i have had issues with the widgets not
> > responding to appearance updates in preopencard, but i don't have a great
> > recipe for it.
>
> See here, I have a long list of PDF files and clicking the widget "index"
> will filter the PDF list with that char.
> <
> https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ygmnzx3s7pvknpbycvi6z/index_polygrid.png?rlkey=c4as77jo96c0e2em3bde9tpk8&dl=0
> >
>
> Clicking button "A-Z" will the display all the files.
> I need to UNhilite the index in that button.
>
> No idea why it does not work? But the workaround does, so problem solved
> (for me and for now).
>
> > On Mon, Oct 23, 2023 at 12:50 PM Mike Kerner <MikeKerner at roadrunner.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> interesting. it works for me. i use the numeric version (set the hilited
> >> row of widget "pg" to 0
> >>
> >> On Mon, Oct 23, 2023 at 11:40 AM Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi friends,
> >>>
> >>> I cannot UN-hilite a row in a polygrid?!
> >>> I tried:
> >>> ...
> >>> set the hilitedrow of widget "index" to "0"
> >>> ...
> >>> set the hilitedrow of widget "index" to 0
> >>> ...
> >>> set the pgHilitedText of widget "index" to ""
> >>> ...
> >>> set the pgHilitedText of widget "index" to EMPTY
> >>> ...
> >>> no dice!?
> >>>
> >>> I use the latest version of the "Widget pack".
> >>> Thanks in advance!
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
>
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Oct 23 13:10:55 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 19:10:55 +0200
Subject: PolyGrid: UNhilite a row?
In-Reply-To: <8c13ed7c-2e28-4d17-b1e6-c5f1590f55e6@sonic.net>
References: <D465FDB6-2851-45CF-96DD-B3B9A98ACC5F@major-k.de>
 <CADCoycNb=Wh4cXooHPbPUAzbEKSWRJp1W9LDroqYtmADqvC+2w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADCoycMxo2rPAMiRKE5s7uf6HpP0nO7Z19z-_SuN=ouTXGx+Gw@mail.gmail.com>
 <16C759D8-CAC4-4429-9A42-6D1865E31DC9@major-k.de>
 <8c13ed7c-2e28-4d17-b1e6-c5f1590f55e6@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <60E01B49-417E-4926-BC13-AAC676B1FB6D@major-k.de>

Hi Mark,

> Am 23.10.2023 um 19:08 schrieb Mark Wieder via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> On 10/23/23 10:03, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
> 
>> See here, I have a long list of PDF files and clicking the widget "index" will filter the PDF list with that char.
>> <https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ygmnzx3s7pvknpbycvi6z/index_polygrid.png?rlkey=c4as77jo96c0e2em3bde9tpk8&dl=0>
> 
> Davy's On The Road Again!
> Score points for coolness.

thanks! :-)
Yeah, great song!

> -- 
> Mark Wieder
> ahsoftware at gmail.com

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Oct 23 13:12:26 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 19:12:26 +0200
Subject: PolyGrid: UNhilite a row?
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycOaNG1naKGmmuWX7U2ud+PH1Yu9OczhiU7-03=BSyz9cg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D465FDB6-2851-45CF-96DD-B3B9A98ACC5F@major-k.de>
 <CADCoycNb=Wh4cXooHPbPUAzbEKSWRJp1W9LDroqYtmADqvC+2w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADCoycMxo2rPAMiRKE5s7uf6HpP0nO7Z19z-_SuN=ouTXGx+Gw@mail.gmail.com>
 <16C759D8-CAC4-4429-9A42-6D1865E31DC9@major-k.de>
 <CADCoycOaNG1naKGmmuWX7U2ud+PH1Yu9OczhiU7-03=BSyz9cg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6A88B070-4270-4F46-9360-A3568E65F322@major-k.de>

Hi Mike,

> Am 23.10.2023 um 19:09 schrieb Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> unfortunately, all i can see is the png file.

yes, by intention! ;-)

> i can't download the stack to see what's going on.

Sorry, stack is not meant for public...


Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Mon Oct 23 13:15:57 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 13:15:57 -0400
Subject: PolyGrid: UNhilite a row?
In-Reply-To: <6A88B070-4270-4F46-9360-A3568E65F322@major-k.de>
References: <D465FDB6-2851-45CF-96DD-B3B9A98ACC5F@major-k.de>
 <CADCoycNb=Wh4cXooHPbPUAzbEKSWRJp1W9LDroqYtmADqvC+2w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADCoycMxo2rPAMiRKE5s7uf6HpP0nO7Z19z-_SuN=ouTXGx+Gw@mail.gmail.com>
 <16C759D8-CAC4-4429-9A42-6D1865E31DC9@major-k.de>
 <CADCoycOaNG1naKGmmuWX7U2ud+PH1Yu9OczhiU7-03=BSyz9cg@mail.gmail.com>
 <6A88B070-4270-4F46-9360-A3568E65F322@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <CADCoycNekLD+B2+ey7_NZCdCr4Bb5C-XPRoCbEs8hDWA0y2sKQ@mail.gmail.com>

you didn't mention the workaround that you used.
i'm not sure what we're supposed to do with the png since we can't see the
code.

On Mon, Oct 23, 2023 at 1:12 PM Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Mike,
>
> > Am 23.10.2023 um 19:09 schrieb Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> >
> > unfortunately, all i can see is the png file.
>
> yes, by intention! ;-)
>
> > i can't download the stack to see what's going on.
>
> Sorry, stack is not meant for public...
>
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
>
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Oct 23 13:24:48 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 19:24:48 +0200
Subject: PolyGrid: UNhilite a row?
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycNekLD+B2+ey7_NZCdCr4Bb5C-XPRoCbEs8hDWA0y2sKQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D465FDB6-2851-45CF-96DD-B3B9A98ACC5F@major-k.de>
 <CADCoycNb=Wh4cXooHPbPUAzbEKSWRJp1W9LDroqYtmADqvC+2w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADCoycMxo2rPAMiRKE5s7uf6HpP0nO7Z19z-_SuN=ouTXGx+Gw@mail.gmail.com>
 <16C759D8-CAC4-4429-9A42-6D1865E31DC9@major-k.de>
 <CADCoycOaNG1naKGmmuWX7U2ud+PH1Yu9OczhiU7-03=BSyz9cg@mail.gmail.com>
 <6A88B070-4270-4F46-9360-A3568E65F322@major-k.de>
 <CADCoycNekLD+B2+ey7_NZCdCr4Bb5C-XPRoCbEs8hDWA0y2sKQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <22BD2C99-1A09-42AA-91C2-B0315AC0136B@major-k.de>

Hi Mike,

> Am 23.10.2023 um 19:15 schrieb Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> you didn't mention the workaround that you used.

I wrote earlier in this thread:
...
click at the topleft of widget "index"
...
That does the trick for me and UNhilited the widget.

> i'm not sure what we're supposed to do with the png since we can't see the
> code.

>> Am 23.10.2023 um 18:51 schrieb Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> what event are you setting it in? ...

So gave him an impression of how my layout and polygrids look like and where 
I want to UNhilte the index.

I tried had:
...
set the hilitedrow of widget "index" to "0"
...
set the hilitedrow of widget "index" to 0
...
set the pgHilitedText of widget "index" to ""
...
set the pgHilitedText of widget "index" to EMPTY
...
no dice!?


Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Oct 23 15:45:11 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 14:45:11 -0500
Subject: ANDROID player won't play MP3 from server but locally?
In-Reply-To: <5DE2B35A-B785-4D51-85CF-737E8A7DFA13@major-k.de>
References: <5DE2B35A-B785-4D51-85CF-737E8A7DFA13@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <8856c056-ddea-4024-875b-fb6fc286ee38@hyperactivesw.com>

On 10/22/23 7:34 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
> I'm having problems to play a MP3 (5 MB) from my server. And yes, I waited up to a minute 
> before I closed the app. Works fine when I play it locally.


Below is the script I use for mobile players. It's old so things may be different now, but if I 
remember right I had to check playerPropertyAvailable for the duration to be sure the player 
had enough content to start playing.


on createMobileAudioPlayer pURL, pPlayerName
   -- pURL = remote video or audio file
   -- pPlayerName = name of player to create; if empty uses LC-assigned ID
   if sPlayerID is in mobileControls() then mobileControlDelete sPlayerID -- init
   if pPlayerName = "" then
     mobileControlCreate "player"
     put the result into sPlayerId
   else
     mobileControlCreate "player",pPlayerName
     put pPlayerName into sPlayerID
   end if
   mobileControlSet sPlayerId, "rect", getPlayerRect() -- can use a literal rect instead
   mobileControlSet sPlayerId, "showController", true
   mobileControlSet sPlayerId, "filename", pURL
   mobileControlSet sPlayerId, "visible", true
   if pURL begins with "http" then
     mobileBusyIndicatorStart "square", "Loading..." -- add loading indicator until duration is 
available
   end if
end createMobileAudioPlayer

on playerPropertyAvailable pProperty -- msg sent when enough content is loaded
   if pProperty is "duration" then
     mobileBusyIndicatorStop -- Remove the "Loading..." indicator and start playing
     mobileControlDo sPlayerId, "play"
   end if
end playerPropertyAvailable

on setMobileAudioPlayer pPlayerName,pState -- control the state of the mobile player
   -- pState = "pause", "play", or "stop"
   if pPlayerName is not among the lines of mobileControls() then exit setMobileAudioPlayer
   mobileControlDo pPlayerName, pState
   if pState = "stop" then
     mobileBusyIndicatorStop -- in case it's still showing
     mobileControlSet pPlayerName, "visible", false
     mobileControlDelete pPlayerName
   end if
end setMobileAudioPlayer

on playerFinished -- sent on mobile when audio is done
   setMobileAudioPlayer "stop"
end playerFinished

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Oct 23 15:52:25 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 21:52:25 +0200
Subject: ANDROID player won't play MP3 from server but locally?
In-Reply-To: <8856c056-ddea-4024-875b-fb6fc286ee38@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <5DE2B35A-B785-4D51-85CF-737E8A7DFA13@major-k.de>
 <8856c056-ddea-4024-875b-fb6fc286ee38@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <854B895F-20A9-485E-99BE-D9621A2CBFBF@major-k.de>

Hi Jacque,

wonderful, thank you very much!
Will test this and report back.

> Am 23.10.2023 um 21:45 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> On 10/22/23 7:34 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>> I'm having problems to play a MP3 (5 MB) from my server. And yes, I waited up to a minute before I closed the app. Works fine when I play it locally.
> 
> 
> Below is the script I use for mobile players. It's old so things may be different now, but if I remember right I had to check playerPropertyAvailable for the duration to be sure the player had enough content to start playing.
> 
> on createMobileAudioPlayer pURL, pPlayerName
>  -- pURL = remote video or audio file
>  -- pPlayerName = name of player to create; if empty uses LC-assigned ID
>  if sPlayerID is in mobileControls() then mobileControlDelete sPlayerID -- init
>  if pPlayerName = "" then
>    mobileControlCreate "player"
>    put the result into sPlayerId
>  else
>    mobileControlCreate "player",pPlayerName
>    put pPlayerName into sPlayerID
>  end if
>  mobileControlSet sPlayerId, "rect", getPlayerRect() -- can use a literal rect instead
>  mobileControlSet sPlayerId, "showController", true
>  mobileControlSet sPlayerId, "filename", pURL
>  mobileControlSet sPlayerId, "visible", true
>  if pURL begins with "http" then
>    mobileBusyIndicatorStart "square", "Loading..." -- add loading indicator until duration is available
>  end if
> end createMobileAudioPlayer
> 
> on playerPropertyAvailable pProperty -- msg sent when enough content is loaded
>  if pProperty is "duration" then
>    mobileBusyIndicatorStop -- Remove the "Loading..." indicator and start playing
>    mobileControlDo sPlayerId, "play"
>  end if
> end playerPropertyAvailable
> 
> on setMobileAudioPlayer pPlayerName,pState -- control the state of the mobile player
>  -- pState = "pause", "play", or "stop"
>  if pPlayerName is not among the lines of mobileControls() then exit setMobileAudioPlayer
>  mobileControlDo pPlayerName, pState
>  if pState = "stop" then
>    mobileBusyIndicatorStop -- in case it's still showing
>    mobileControlSet pPlayerName, "visible", false
>    mobileControlDelete pPlayerName
>  end if
> end setMobileAudioPlayer
> 
> on playerFinished -- sent on mobile when audio is done
>  setMobileAudioPlayer "stop"
> end playerFinished
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From paul at researchware.com  Tue Oct 24 13:00:25 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2023 13:00:25 -0400
Subject: Oddity in 'currentCard' function?
Message-ID: <eaf3e2d1-542e-4f54-a14d-c37c3059a1ac@researchware.com>

I think I found a oddity in the "currentCard" property.

The documentation states that the currentCard property return the short 
name of the current card of a stack:

for example: put the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" into tCardName

You can then execute code such as: set the myProperty of cd tCardName of 
stack "Untitled 1" to tValue

However, if the card does not have a name set, then current card returns 
"card id <idnumber>", example: card id 1002 and the above 2 lines of 
code return a runtime error of 'can't find card'

put the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" into tCardName
set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue

WORKS for cards with a name
FAILS for cards without a name (where currentCard returns 'card id <number')

I think currentCard should just return 'id 1002' rather than 'card id 
1002' if a card has no name.

Trying to execute: set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 
1" to tValue WHEN tCardName contain 'card id 1002' produces a run time error

But trying to execute: set the myProperty of cd id 1002 of stack 
"Untitled 1" to tValue works.

Oddly, set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 1" to 
tValue FAILS if tCardName contains "id 10001" (and yes that card with 
that ID exists)

Oddly again, set the myProperty of the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" 
to tValue DOES WORK whether they have a name or not

But again, breaking that example above (set the myProperty of the 
currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue) into 2 lines:
put the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" into tCardName
set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue
FAILS if the card has no name.

Something just seems off here?


From craig at starfirelighting.com  Tue Oct 24 13:59:53 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2023 13:59:53 -0400
Subject: Oddity in 'currentCard' function?
In-Reply-To: <eaf3e2d1-542e-4f54-a14d-c37c3059a1ac@researchware.com>
References: <eaf3e2d1-542e-4f54-a14d-c37c3059a1ac@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <1D46D0DC-CE13-43EB-A585-9B2F0238DE0F@starfirelighting.com>

Paul.

Having a more complete description seems right to me. You are essentially saying that if you use the moniker “the currentCard” that LC should know what you are intending, the is, the current “card”, and not the current “something else”.

It has to be one of those cases where, as Danny Goodman once said, “If a line of code seem like it ought to work but does not, try using a “do” construction to force another layer of resolution;

on mouseUp
put the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" into tCardName

do "set the myProperty of" && tCardName && "to tValue"

end mouseUp

This works, and shows that the referencing of these sorts of things in LC, like in HC, is not quite as they read like.

Craig


> On Oct 24, 2023, at 1:00 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I think I found a oddity in the "currentCard" property.
> 
> The documentation states that the currentCard property return the short name of the current card of a stack:
> 
> for example: put the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" into tCardName
> 
> You can then execute code such as: set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue
> 
> However, if the card does not have a name set, then current card returns "card id <idnumber>", example: card id 1002 and the above 2 lines of code return a runtime error of 'can't find card'
> 
> put the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" into tCardName
> set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue
> 
> WORKS for cards with a name
> FAILS for cards without a name (where currentCard returns 'card id <number')
> 
> I think currentCard should just return 'id 1002' rather than 'card id 1002' if a card has no name.
> 
> Trying to execute: set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue WHEN tCardName contain 'card id 1002' produces a run time error
> 
> But trying to execute: set the myProperty of cd id 1002 of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue works.
> 
> Oddly, set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue FAILS if tCardName contains "id 10001" (and yes that card with that ID exists)
> 
> Oddly again, set the myProperty of the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue DOES WORK whether they have a name or not
> 
> But again, breaking that example above (set the myProperty of the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue) into 2 lines:
> put the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" into tCardName
> set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue
> FAILS if the card has no name.
> 
> Something just seems off here?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From craig at starfirelighting.com  Tue Oct 24 14:04:32 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2023 14:04:32 -0400
Subject: Oddity in 'currentCard' function?
In-Reply-To: <1D46D0DC-CE13-43EB-A585-9B2F0238DE0F@starfirelighting.com>
References: <eaf3e2d1-542e-4f54-a14d-c37c3059a1ac@researchware.com>
 <1D46D0DC-CE13-43EB-A585-9B2F0238DE0F@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <9DA0CA3F-0203-4A95-8B25-27B6E783F8AF@starfirelighting.com>

NitPicking within myself, but I have always isolated variables in “do” constructions:
do "set the myProperty of" && tCardName && "to" && tValue

Craig

> On Oct 24, 2023, at 1:59 PM, Craig Newman <craig at starfirelighting.com> wrote:
> 
> Paul.
> 
> Having a more complete description seems right to me. You are essentially saying that if you use the moniker “the currentCard” that LC should know what you are intending, the is, the current “card”, and not the current “something else”.
> 
> It has to be one of those cases where, as Danny Goodman once said, “If a line of code seem like it ought to work but does not, try using a “do” construction to force another layer of resolution;
> 
> on mouseUp
> put the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" into tCardName
> 
> do "set the myProperty of" && tCardName && "to tValue"
> 
> end mouseUp
> 
> This works, and shows that the referencing of these sorts of things in LC, like in HC, is not quite as they read like.
> 
> Craig
> 
> 
>> On Oct 24, 2023, at 1:00 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I think I found a oddity in the "currentCard" property.
>> 
>> The documentation states that the currentCard property return the short name of the current card of a stack:
>> 
>> for example: put the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" into tCardName
>> 
>> You can then execute code such as: set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue
>> 
>> However, if the card does not have a name set, then current card returns "card id <idnumber>", example: card id 1002 and the above 2 lines of code return a runtime error of 'can't find card'
>> 
>> put the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" into tCardName
>> set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue
>> 
>> WORKS for cards with a name
>> FAILS for cards without a name (where currentCard returns 'card id <number')
>> 
>> I think currentCard should just return 'id 1002' rather than 'card id 1002' if a card has no name.
>> 
>> Trying to execute: set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue WHEN tCardName contain 'card id 1002' produces a run time error
>> 
>> But trying to execute: set the myProperty of cd id 1002 of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue works.
>> 
>> Oddly, set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue FAILS if tCardName contains "id 10001" (and yes that card with that ID exists)
>> 
>> Oddly again, set the myProperty of the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue DOES WORK whether they have a name or not
>> 
>> But again, breaking that example above (set the myProperty of the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue) into 2 lines:
>> put the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" into tCardName
>> set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue
>> FAILS if the card has no name.
>> 
>> Something just seems off here?
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Oct 24 15:21:43 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2023 14:21:43 -0500
Subject: Oddity in 'currentCard' function?
In-Reply-To: <eaf3e2d1-542e-4f54-a14d-c37c3059a1ac@researchware.com>
References: <eaf3e2d1-542e-4f54-a14d-c37c3059a1ac@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <2096ce28-a8f4-4dd0-9f6d-f17fe5f10450@hyperactivesw.com>

The behavior is consistent with all cards or controls that don't have a name. The "name" is the 
ID in that case. The best way around it is to:

   put the long id of <the object or card> into tID

That way you can refer to tID without worrying whether there's a literal name or not. So:

   put the long ID of the currentCard into tID
   set the myProperty of tID to tValue


On 10/24/23 12:00 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
> I think I found a oddity in the "currentCard" property.
> 
> The documentation states that the currentCard property return the short name of the current 
> card of a stack:
> 
> for example: put the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" into tCardName
> 
> You can then execute code such as: set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 1" to 
> tValue
> 
> However, if the card does not have a name set, then current card returns "card id <idnumber>", 
> example: card id 1002 and the above 2 lines of code return a runtime error of 'can't find card'
> 
> put the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" into tCardName
> set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue
> 
> WORKS for cards with a name
> FAILS for cards without a name (where currentCard returns 'card id <number')
> 
> I think currentCard should just return 'id 1002' rather than 'card id 1002' if a card has no name.
> 
> Trying to execute: set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue WHEN 
> tCardName contain 'card id 1002' produces a run time error
> 
> But trying to execute: set the myProperty of cd id 1002 of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue works.
> 
> Oddly, set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue FAILS if tCardName 
> contains "id 10001" (and yes that card with that ID exists)
> 
> Oddly again, set the myProperty of the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue DOES WORK 
> whether they have a name or not
> 
> But again, breaking that example above (set the myProperty of the currentCard of stack 
> "Untitled 1" to tValue) into 2 lines:
> put the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" into tCardName
> set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue
> FAILS if the card has no name.
> 
> Something just seems off here?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From brian at milby7.com  Tue Oct 24 20:44:31 2023
From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2023 20:44:31 -0400
Subject: drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) always BLACK
In-Reply-To: <8B45151C-1CBB-46D8-878D-141CFD47E99D@major-k.de>
References: <d7923bda0ded5b61113426a38c301ec2@livecode.com>
 <91CD3240-9439-4877-81AD-9F1B83E0F718@milby7.com>
 <8B45151C-1CBB-46D8-878D-141CFD47E99D@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <CA+yhkRbJegWOd85MijEZpcJGyvY4RPjy0C5XsbdBDTweBOgNCA@mail.gmail.com>

Well, it sure took me a while to get around to this.  I guess better late
than never though.  Not sure where the best place to put it, so I just
added it to my lc-misc repo on GitHub.  You can find the code here:
https://github.com/bwmilby/lc-misc/tree/master/IconDrawingLibrary

Thanks,
Brian

On Wed, Apr 6, 2022 at 3:20 PM Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Brian,
>
> > Am 06.04.2022 um 21:18 schrieb Brian Milby via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> >
> > I guess I need to make an update to this library :)
>
> yo, that would be cool! :-)
>
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Apr 6, 2022, at 1:28 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> On 2022-04-06 18:16, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
> >>> Hi all,
> >>> so sorry, looks like I completely f..... up here.
> >>> Sorry for the confusion, not may day...
> >>> See:
> >>> <https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23665>
> >>
> >> Hehe - no worries.
> >>
> >> So in answer to your original query about wanting to be able to color
> the icons - the drawing library supports the 'currentColor' attribute in
> SVG - and this is tied to the 'backgroundColor' property of the image
> object the drawing is set on.
> >>
> >> It would only take a small tweak to Brian's extension to make this work
> - adding `fill="currentColor"` to the path node it generates.
> >>
> >> Brian's extension works by fetching the path data from the IconSVG
> library, wrapping it in the necessary SVG XML, and then compiling it with
> drawingSvgCompile.
> >>
> >> Irksomely, there does not seem to be any support for marking colors in
> SVGs as 'currentColor' in any SVG editor we've come across (unless its
> deeply buried in it). So one strategy there is making sure the colors you
> want to be configurable in the SVG are set to a known unlikely random color
> (e.g. #ABCDEF), exporting as SVG XML from the editor and then just doing a
> global find/replace of (e.g.) #ABCDEF with currentColor.
> >>
> >> Warmest Regards,
> >>
> >> Mark.
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
>
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From mark at livecode.com  Wed Oct 25 00:34:53 2023
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2023 05:34:53 +0100
Subject: Oddity in 'currentCard' function?
In-Reply-To: <eaf3e2d1-542e-4f54-a14d-c37c3059a1ac@researchware.com>
References: <eaf3e2d1-542e-4f54-a14d-c37c3059a1ac@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <efb31369983cde73d27e0655ec6897c4@livecode.com>

On 2023-10-24 18:00, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
> I think I found a oddity in the "currentCard" property.
> 
> The documentation states that the currentCard property return the short 
> name of the current card of a stack:
> 
> for example: put the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" into tCardName
> 
> You can then execute code such as: set the myProperty of cd tCardName 
> of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue

...

> But again, breaking that example above (set the myProperty of the 
> currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue) into 2 lines:
> put the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" into tCardName
> set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue
> FAILS if the card has no name.
> 
> Something just seems off here?

As Jacque said, if an object has an empty name then the short name 
returns `<chunk> id <id>` (i.e. an id chunk) - this is long standing 
behavior and one which I'm not sure is entirely helpful (it should 
perhaps just return empty!).

You see the same effect in other properties which return a 'short name' 
- e.g. the menubar of a stack. So its entirely consistent with 'object 
name' properties. (In these cases there is no string which such 
properties could return which would help distinguish unnamed things and 
that could be used to resolve them in some sort of chunk in a consistent 
manner as object names can be arbitrary strings).

If you want to do stuff with the current card of a stack, then don't use 
the currentCard property - 'this card of stack ...' *is* a chunk 
reference and thus it doesn't care whether the card has a name or not.

If you want the long id of the current card of a stack to manipulate 
'out of context' then use the long id:

    put the long id of this card of stack ... into tCardId

Of course, if you really want to use the currentCard (for whatever 
reason), then you need to make sure all your cards have names (which to 
be fair, is a good habit to get into - as is naming all objects with 
some, unique, name!).

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things


From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Wed Oct 25 04:35:33 2023
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2023 11:35:33 +0300
Subject: drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) always BLACK
In-Reply-To: <CA+yhkRbJegWOd85MijEZpcJGyvY4RPjy0C5XsbdBDTweBOgNCA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d7923bda0ded5b61113426a38c301ec2@livecode.com>
 <91CD3240-9439-4877-81AD-9F1B83E0F718@milby7.com>
 <8B45151C-1CBB-46D8-878D-141CFD47E99D@major-k.de>
 <CA+yhkRbJegWOd85MijEZpcJGyvY4RPjy0C5XsbdBDTweBOgNCA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b753cafd-d6bb-4db8-b0b7-5839d69c3a24@gmail.com>

I should be grateful if you could explain the licensing on your work.

Best, Richmond.

On 25.10.23 3:44, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote:
> Well, it sure took me a while to get around to this.  I guess better late
> than never though.  Not sure where the best place to put it, so I just
> added it to my lc-misc repo on GitHub.  You can find the code here:
> https://github.com/bwmilby/lc-misc/tree/master/IconDrawingLibrary
>
> Thanks,
> Brian
>
> On Wed, Apr 6, 2022 at 3:20PM Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Brian,
>>
>>> Am 06.04.2022 um 21:18 schrieb Brian Milby via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> I guess I need to make an update to this library :)
>> yo, that would be cool! :-)
>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Apr 6, 2022, at 1:28 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2022-04-06 18:16, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>> so sorry, looks like I completely f..... up here.
>>>>> Sorry for the confusion, not may day...
>>>>> See:
>>>>> <https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23665>
>>>> Hehe - no worries.
>>>>
>>>> So in answer to your original query about wanting to be able to color
>> the icons - the drawing library supports the 'currentColor' attribute in
>> SVG - and this is tied to the 'backgroundColor' property of the image
>> object the drawing is set on.
>>>> It would only take a small tweak to Brian's extension to make this work
>> - adding `fill="currentColor"` to the path node it generates.
>>>> Brian's extension works by fetching the path data from the IconSVG
>> library, wrapping it in the necessary SVG XML, and then compiling it with
>> drawingSvgCompile.
>>>> Irksomely, there does not seem to be any support for marking colors in
>> SVGs as 'currentColor' in any SVG editor we've come across (unless its
>> deeply buried in it). So one strategy there is making sure the colors you
>> want to be configurable in the SVG are set to a known unlikely random color
>> (e.g. #ABCDEF), exporting as SVG XML from the editor and then just doing a
>> global find/replace of (e.g.) #ABCDEF with currentColor.
>>>> Warmest Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Mark.
>> Best
>>
>> Klaus
>>
>> --
>> Klaus Major
>> https://www.major-k.de
>> https://www.major-k.de/bass
>> klaus at major-k.de
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From paul at researchware.com  Wed Oct 25 08:57:26 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2023 08:57:26 -0400
Subject: Oddity in 'currentCard' function?
In-Reply-To: <efb31369983cde73d27e0655ec6897c4@livecode.com>
References: <eaf3e2d1-542e-4f54-a14d-c37c3059a1ac@researchware.com>
 <efb31369983cde73d27e0655ec6897c4@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <b19be346-edf3-4e90-af5f-430817a15680@researchware.com>

On 10/25/2023 12:34 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:
>
> If you want to do stuff with the current card of a stack, then don't 
> use the currentCard property - 'this card of stack ...' *is* a chunk 
> reference and thus it doesn't care whether the card has a name or not.
>

Okay, I get that <object> id <number> is a legacy return value when 
there is no name.

I'd just like to confirm that:

this card of stack "X"
and
the currentCard of stack "X"

refer to the same card, even if in different ways (actual object 
reference vs short name)?

If so, I will switch to using "this card of stack". I had thought that 
the 'this card' was always the card in the object hierarchy of the 
object the script was running in and had forgotten that you could say 
'this card of stack ...' to reference the active card in another stack.



From brian at milby7.com  Wed Oct 25 10:15:23 2023
From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2023 10:15:23 -0400
Subject: drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) always BLACK
In-Reply-To: <b753cafd-d6bb-4db8-b0b7-5839d69c3a24@gmail.com>
References: <b753cafd-d6bb-4db8-b0b7-5839d69c3a24@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ADAC759A-1F11-4328-A125-518E18FFD68D@milby7.com>

This code is MIT license, so freely usable.  It does rely on code from HQ, but should be usable on either the open source or commercial versions.

Brian Milby
brian at milby7.com

> On Oct 25, 2023, at 4:36 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I should be grateful if you could explain the licensing on your work.
> 
> Best, Richmond.
> 
>> On 25.10.23 3:44, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote:
>> Well, it sure took me a while to get around to this.  I guess better late
>> than never though.  Not sure where the best place to put it, so I just
>> added it to my lc-misc repo on GitHub.  You can find the code here:
>> https://github.com/bwmilby/lc-misc/tree/master/IconDrawingLibrary
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Brian
>> 
>> On Wed, Apr 6, 2022 at 3:20 PM Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Brian,
>>> 
>>>> Am 06.04.2022 um 21:18 schrieb Brian Milby via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>> I guess I need to make an update to this library :)
>>> yo, that would be cool! :-)
>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On Apr 6, 2022, at 1:28 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 2022-04-06 18:16, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>> so sorry, looks like I completely f..... up here.
>>>>>> Sorry for the confusion, not may day...
>>>>>> See:
>>>>>> <https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23665>
>>>>> Hehe - no worries.
>>>>> 
>>>>> So in answer to your original query about wanting to be able to color
>>> the icons - the drawing library supports the 'currentColor' attribute in
>>> SVG - and this is tied to the 'backgroundColor' property of the image
>>> object the drawing is set on.
>>>>> It would only take a small tweak to Brian's extension to make this work
>>> - adding `fill="currentColor"` to the path node it generates.
>>>>> Brian's extension works by fetching the path data from the IconSVG
>>> library, wrapping it in the necessary SVG XML, and then compiling it with
>>> drawingSvgCompile.
>>>>> Irksomely, there does not seem to be any support for marking colors in
>>> SVGs as 'currentColor' in any SVG editor we've come across (unless its
>>> deeply buried in it). So one strategy there is making sure the colors you
>>> want to be configurable in the SVG are set to a known unlikely random color
>>> (e.g. #ABCDEF), exporting as SVG XML from the editor and then just doing a
>>> global find/replace of (e.g.) #ABCDEF with currentColor.
>>>>> Warmest Regards,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Mark.
>>> Best
>>> 
>>> Klaus
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Klaus Major
>>> https://www.major-k.de
>>> https://www.major-k.de/bass
>>> klaus at major-k.de
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From craig at starfirelighting.com  Wed Oct 25 10:41:23 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2023 10:41:23 -0400
Subject: Oddity in 'currentCard' function?
In-Reply-To: <b19be346-edf3-4e90-af5f-430817a15680@researchware.com>
References: <eaf3e2d1-542e-4f54-a14d-c37c3059a1ac@researchware.com>
 <efb31369983cde73d27e0655ec6897c4@livecode.com>
 <b19be346-edf3-4e90-af5f-430817a15680@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <4384447E-5A17-4E77-A579-47BAE284574E@starfirelighting.com>

Paul.

The construction "answer this card of stack “X” does not work if you are not on stack “X”:

answer the  currentCard of stack  “X”  —works

answer the name of this card of stack “X —works

answer this card of stack “X”—Nope



Craig




> On Oct 25, 2023, at 8:57 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> On 10/25/2023 12:34 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:
>> 
>> If you want to do stuff with the current card of a stack, then don't use the currentCard property - 'this card of stack ...' *is* a chunk reference and thus it doesn't care whether the card has a name or not.
>> 
> 
> Okay, I get that <object> id <number> is a legacy return value when there is no name.
> 
> I'd just like to confirm that:
> 
> this card of stack "X"
> and
> the currentCard of stack "X"
> 
> refer to the same card, even if in different ways (actual object reference vs short name)?
> 
> If so, I will switch to using "this card of stack". I had thought that the 'this card' was always the card in the object hierarchy of the object the script was running in and had forgotten that you could say 'this card of stack ...' to reference the active card in another stack.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Wed Oct 25 14:34:24 2023
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2023 21:34:24 +0300
Subject: drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) always BLACK
In-Reply-To: <ADAC759A-1F11-4328-A125-518E18FFD68D@milby7.com>
References: <b753cafd-d6bb-4db8-b0b7-5839d69c3a24@gmail.com>
 <ADAC759A-1F11-4328-A125-518E18FFD68D@milby7.com>
Message-ID: <72ed615d-524b-45e9-8962-d8ba79b9121d@gmail.com>

Thank you very much.

Best, Richmond.

On 25.10.23 17:15, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote:
> This code is MIT license, so freely usable.  It does rely on code from HQ, but should be usable on either the open source or commercial versions.
>
> Brian Milby
> brian at milby7.com
>
>> On Oct 25, 2023, at 4:36 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> I should be grateful if you could explain the licensing on your work.
>>
>> Best, Richmond.
>>
>>> On 25.10.23 3:44, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Well, it sure took me a while to get around to this.  I guess better late
>>> than never though.  Not sure where the best place to put it, so I just
>>> added it to my lc-misc repo on GitHub.  You can find the code here:
>>> https://github.com/bwmilby/lc-misc/tree/master/IconDrawingLibrary
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Brian
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 6, 2022 at 3:20PM Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Brian,
>>>>
>>>>> Am 06.04.2022 um 21:18 schrieb Brian Milby via use-livecode <
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>>> I guess I need to make an update to this library :)
>>>> yo, that would be cool! :-)
>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Apr 6, 2022, at 1:28 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2022-04-06 18:16, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>> so sorry, looks like I completely f..... up here.
>>>>>>> Sorry for the confusion, not may day...
>>>>>>> See:
>>>>>>> <https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23665>
>>>>>> Hehe - no worries.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So in answer to your original query about wanting to be able to color
>>>> the icons - the drawing library supports the 'currentColor' attribute in
>>>> SVG - and this is tied to the 'backgroundColor' property of the image
>>>> object the drawing is set on.
>>>>>> It would only take a small tweak to Brian's extension to make this work
>>>> - adding `fill="currentColor"` to the path node it generates.
>>>>>> Brian's extension works by fetching the path data from the IconSVG
>>>> library, wrapping it in the necessary SVG XML, and then compiling it with
>>>> drawingSvgCompile.
>>>>>> Irksomely, there does not seem to be any support for marking colors in
>>>> SVGs as 'currentColor' in any SVG editor we've come across (unless its
>>>> deeply buried in it). So one strategy there is making sure the colors you
>>>> want to be configurable in the SVG are set to a known unlikely random color
>>>> (e.g. #ABCDEF), exporting as SVG XML from the editor and then just doing a
>>>> global find/replace of (e.g.) #ABCDEF with currentColor.
>>>>>> Warmest Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mark.
>>>> Best
>>>>
>>>> Klaus
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Klaus Major
>>>> https://www.major-k.de
>>>> https://www.major-k.de/bass
>>>> klaus at major-k.de
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From mark at livecode.com  Thu Oct 26 04:40:11 2023
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2023 09:40:11 +0100
Subject: Oddity in 'currentCard' function?
In-Reply-To: <4384447E-5A17-4E77-A579-47BAE284574E@starfirelighting.com>
References: <eaf3e2d1-542e-4f54-a14d-c37c3059a1ac@researchware.com>
 <efb31369983cde73d27e0655ec6897c4@livecode.com>
 <b19be346-edf3-4e90-af5f-430817a15680@researchware.com>
 <4384447E-5A17-4E77-A579-47BAE284574E@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <2e27e8675af64c5959564a1d0bf5e79c@livecode.com>

On 2023-10-25 15:41, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote:
> Paul.
> 
> The construction "answer this card of stack X does not work if you 
> are not on stack X:
> 
> answer the  currentCard of stack  X  works
> 
> answer the name of this card of stack X works
> 
> answer this card of stack XNope

'this card of this stack' is an object reference - when evaluated in 
contexts which don't expect an object reference, object references 
return the *content* of the object, or an error (if the object has no 
content)... Only buttons and fields have content - in which case 
evaluating them returns the 'text' of the object.

Most things *don't* expect an object reference - places that do are 
where an object needs to be acted on, rather than a value being needed.

For example:

   set the X of <object-reference>
   put exists(<object-reference>)
   put there is an <object-reference>
   answer <string>

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things


From mark at livecode.com  Thu Oct 26 04:44:55 2023
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2023 09:44:55 +0100
Subject: Oddity in 'currentCard' function?
In-Reply-To: <b19be346-edf3-4e90-af5f-430817a15680@researchware.com>
References: <eaf3e2d1-542e-4f54-a14d-c37c3059a1ac@researchware.com>
 <efb31369983cde73d27e0655ec6897c4@livecode.com>
 <b19be346-edf3-4e90-af5f-430817a15680@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <f4440114f151d6ceb32d6f4afa4ffe7c@livecode.com>

On 2023-10-25 13:57, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
> On 10/25/2023 12:34 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:
>> 
>> If you want to do stuff with the current card of a stack, then don't 
>> use the currentCard property - 'this card of stack ...' *is* a chunk 
>> reference and thus it doesn't care whether the card has a name or not.
>> 
> 
> Okay, I get that <object> id <number> is a legacy return value when 
> there is no name.
> 
> I'd just like to confirm that:
> 
> this card of stack "X"
> and
> the currentCard of stack "X"
> 
> refer to the same card, even if in different ways (actual object 
> reference vs short name)?

Yes - 'the currentCard of stack "X"' is equivalent to 'the short name of 
this card of stack X'.

The currentCard property was added a very long time ago to be used by a 
project which never saw the light of day (I'm not sure I remember what 
it was now!)...

There was (apparently!) a need at that time to be able to switch cards 
in a stack *without* the stack coming to front (which is what happens 
when you use the only alternative 'go card ... of stack').

It was added as a property as that was the quickest/fastest way to do 
so, for something which I don't remember being entirely convinced by at 
the time - it wasn't documented for a long time, but then I think 
someone asked about it and it had been there long enough and it doesn't 
do any harm really so it was documented.

Basically, its main use was for changing card (i.e. as a settable 
property); rather than finding out what card was current (since that was 
already catered for via interrogating 'this card of this stack').

With hindsight, if the ability to switch cards without bringing the 
stack to front is indeed useful then it should probably be provided via 
a new command, or an augmentation of the 'go' command (like we have go 
visible / go invisible).

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things


From paul at researchware.com  Thu Oct 26 07:37:30 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2023 07:37:30 -0400
Subject: Oddity in 'currentCard' function?
In-Reply-To: <f4440114f151d6ceb32d6f4afa4ffe7c@livecode.com>
References: <eaf3e2d1-542e-4f54-a14d-c37c3059a1ac@researchware.com>
 <efb31369983cde73d27e0655ec6897c4@livecode.com>
 <b19be346-edf3-4e90-af5f-430817a15680@researchware.com>
 <f4440114f151d6ceb32d6f4afa4ffe7c@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <ad6d2436-f02f-4ec0-9bf8-b1085370c599@researchware.com>

On 10/26/2023 4:44 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:
> Basically, its [currentCard] main use was for changing card (i.e. as a 
> settable property); rather than finding out what card was current 
> (since that was already catered for via interrogating 'this card of 
> this stack'). 

FYI - this is exactly what we use currentCard for in our application - 
change the card that will be displayed when a user shows/opens a stack 
to match a change in user data when the stack is not actually open yet.


From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Oct 26 10:56:37 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2023 16:56:37 +0200
Subject: some mobilecontrolprops do not work on Android?
Message-ID: <0C24DFA6-64EB-4ABC-B76B-755F82D1D96C@major-k.de>

Hi friends,

I (now successfully :) create a player for MP3 playback,
however some properties do not seem to work on Android,
although the Dictionary states otherwise!?
----------------------------------------------
 mobilecontrolCreate "player", "mplayer"
 mobileControlSet "mplayer", "visible", TRUE
 mobileControlSet "mplayer", "rect", (the rect of grc "player")

## Does nothing:
 mobileControlSet "mplayer", "backgroundcolor", "213,143,116"
   
 mobileControlSet "mplayer", "showController", TRUE
 mobileControlSet "mplayer", "filename", tURL
 
## Whatever I set here, on Android I always get a black rect with 
## the player controls inside of it.
 mobileControlSet "mplayer", "opaque", FALSE

## Whatever value I enter here, nothing will change the apprearance
 mobileControlSet "mplayer", "alpha", 127
----------------------------------------------
Before I report this, is this a dictionary bug or what?
Or is it just me again? :-D


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From ahsoftware at sonic.net  Thu Oct 26 12:17:36 2023
From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2023 09:17:36 -0700
Subject: Oddity in 'currentCard' function?
In-Reply-To: <f4440114f151d6ceb32d6f4afa4ffe7c@livecode.com>
References: <eaf3e2d1-542e-4f54-a14d-c37c3059a1ac@researchware.com>
 <efb31369983cde73d27e0655ec6897c4@livecode.com>
 <b19be346-edf3-4e90-af5f-430817a15680@researchware.com>
 <f4440114f151d6ceb32d6f4afa4ffe7c@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <bf4111f4-4933-4779-ad81-f4c4bf7f5210@sonic.net>

On 10/26/23 01:44, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:

> Basically, its main use was for changing card (i.e. as a settable 
> property); rather than finding out what card was current (since that was 
> already catered for via interrogating 'this card of this stack').

So basically to stay out of trouble "currentcard" should be thought of 
as a write-only property?

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Oct 26 15:14:24 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2023 14:14:24 -0500
Subject: some mobilecontrolprops do not work on Android?
In-Reply-To: <0C24DFA6-64EB-4ABC-B76B-755F82D1D96C@major-k.de>
References: <0C24DFA6-64EB-4ABC-B76B-755F82D1D96C@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <89cef04a-ca0f-4a44-9e16-a894af804278@hyperactivesw.com>

The backgroundColor and alpha settings might be a dictionary error. The opaque setting says it 
is available only for iOS.

I think the appearance of mobile players is set directly by the OS now, so the color and 
transparency may not be available on Android.

On 10/26/23 9:56 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi friends,
> 
> I (now successfully :) create a player for MP3 playback,
> however some properties do not seem to work on Android,
> although the Dictionary states otherwise!?
> ----------------------------------------------
>   mobilecontrolCreate "player", "mplayer"
>   mobileControlSet "mplayer", "visible", TRUE
>   mobileControlSet "mplayer", "rect", (the rect of grc "player")
> 
> ## Does nothing:
>   mobileControlSet "mplayer", "backgroundcolor", "213,143,116"
>     
>   mobileControlSet "mplayer", "showController", TRUE
>   mobileControlSet "mplayer", "filename", tURL
>   
> ## Whatever I set here, on Android I always get a black rect with
> ## the player controls inside of it.
>   mobileControlSet "mplayer", "opaque", FALSE
> 
> ## Whatever value I enter here, nothing will change the apprearance
>   mobileControlSet "mplayer", "alpha", 127
> ----------------------------------------------
> Before I report this, is this a dictionary bug or what?
> Or is it just me again? :-D
> 
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Oct 26 15:26:47 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2023 14:26:47 -0500
Subject: Oddity in 'currentCard' function?
In-Reply-To: <bf4111f4-4933-4779-ad81-f4c4bf7f5210@sonic.net>
References: <eaf3e2d1-542e-4f54-a14d-c37c3059a1ac@researchware.com>
 <efb31369983cde73d27e0655ec6897c4@livecode.com>
 <b19be346-edf3-4e90-af5f-430817a15680@researchware.com>
 <f4440114f151d6ceb32d6f4afa4ffe7c@livecode.com>
 <bf4111f4-4933-4779-ad81-f4c4bf7f5210@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <2f384bd9-43bb-47f5-93b5-3844c6572a3f@hyperactivesw.com>

On 10/26/23 11:17 AM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote:
> So basically to stay out of trouble "currentcard" should be thought of as a write-only property?

It can be read if you supply syntax that requests a legal value; i.e.:

   the name of the currentCard of stack X
   the loc of the currentCard of stack X
   the backColor of the currentCard of stack X

Cards themselves have no intrinsic value (what would they return?) but their properties do. 
Similarly, what would expect to see if you:

    answer stack X

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Oct 26 15:32:36 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2023 14:32:36 -0500
Subject: Oddity in 'currentCard' function?
In-Reply-To: <2f384bd9-43bb-47f5-93b5-3844c6572a3f@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <eaf3e2d1-542e-4f54-a14d-c37c3059a1ac@researchware.com>
 <efb31369983cde73d27e0655ec6897c4@livecode.com>
 <b19be346-edf3-4e90-af5f-430817a15680@researchware.com>
 <f4440114f151d6ceb32d6f4afa4ffe7c@livecode.com>
 <bf4111f4-4933-4779-ad81-f4c4bf7f5210@sonic.net>
 <2f384bd9-43bb-47f5-93b5-3844c6572a3f@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <4165b148-62d3-4329-8c24-c6bfcdbff996@hyperactivesw.com>

On 10/26/23 2:26 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
>>
> 
> It can be read if you supply syntax that requests a legal value; i.e.:
> 
>    the name of the currentCard of stack X
>    the loc of the currentCard of stack X
>    the backColor of the currentCard of stack X

Oops. That's wrong. It errors. This:

   put the loc of cd the currentcard of stack X
   etc...

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From klaus at major-k.de  Fri Oct 27 09:19:21 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2023 15:19:21 +0200
Subject: some mobilecontrolprops do not work on Android?
In-Reply-To: <89cef04a-ca0f-4a44-9e16-a894af804278@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <0C24DFA6-64EB-4ABC-B76B-755F82D1D96C@major-k.de>
 <89cef04a-ca0f-4a44-9e16-a894af804278@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <138D7891-3C34-4DB6-B1B4-43247FC78758@major-k.de>

Hi Jacque,

> Am 26.10.2023 um 21:14 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> The backgroundColor and alpha settings might be a dictionary error.

OK, will report that.

> The opaque setting says it is available only for iOS.

Yes, my fault.

> I think the appearance of mobile players is set directly by the OS now, so the color and transparency may not be available on Android.

That's what i guessed.

Thanks!

> On 10/26/23 9:56 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hi friends,
>> I (now successfully :) create a player for MP3 playback,
>> however some properties do not seem to work on Android,
>> although the Dictionary states otherwise!?
>> ----------------------------------------------
>>  mobilecontrolCreate "player", "mplayer"
>>  mobileControlSet "mplayer", "visible", TRUE
>>  mobileControlSet "mplayer", "rect", (the rect of grc "player")
>> ## Does nothing:
>>  mobileControlSet "mplayer", "backgroundcolor", "213,143,116"
>>      mobileControlSet "mplayer", "showController", TRUE
>>  mobileControlSet "mplayer", "filename", tURL
>>  ## Whatever I set here, on Android I always get a black rect with
>> ## the player controls inside of it.
>>  mobileControlSet "mplayer", "opaque", FALSE
>> ## Whatever value I enter here, nothing will change the apprearance
>>  mobileControlSet "mplayer", "alpha", 127
>> ----------------------------------------------
>> Before I report this, is this a dictionary bug or what?
>> Or is it just me again? :-D

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From runrevron at gmail.com  Sat Oct 28 04:38:15 2023
From: runrevron at gmail.com (ron barber)
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2023 16:38:15 +0800
Subject: Open new windows as a tab not working?
Message-ID: <7BBAE6EE-F548-49B0-BD52-73034B9833C8@gmail.com>

I had a standalone built using Mac 10.14; LC 9.03.  Sonoma broke the menus (actually the app would not even open) so I upgraded LC to 9.6.10 and that solved the menu problem.

However now a user is reporting and I have confirmed that the option to open new windows as a tab in the existing window no longer works. That is, LC 9.0.3 build respected the tab setting but the 9.6.10 build does not. This is handled by the system preferences in Dock:  “Prefer tabs when opening documents” .

Is this a bug or is there a workaround or do I need to upgrade LC?

Thanks for your suggestions
Ron

From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au  Sun Oct 29 20:00:00 2023
From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2023 11:00:00 +1100
Subject: arrayToJSON not working in lcserver on Linux - resolved
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1697731201.435780.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.1.1697731201.435780.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <21652F76-FFD4-444B-A700-8BE2DEC1A115@optusnet.com.au>

Panos advises me that indeed arrayToJSON does not work out of the box in lcserver, although it does work in the IDE and standalones. And that this is not a bug.

Let’s call it a lacuna, I suggest in code, Panos concedes in documentation. 

The story is that the mergJSON library, which is accessed from LC on all platforms using the mergJSONEncode function, only handles 1-dimensional arrays. The arrayToJSON encoder, and the corresponding decoder, use recursive loops to extend to multidimensional arrays. These convenience handlers are in a stack mergJSONLibrary.livescodecript, which is included in the IDE and standalones, but is not (*even* - my emphasis)  distributed with LCserver.

So to use arrayToJSON from LCserver one can upload the library stack - available at https://github.com/montegoulding/mergJSON/blob/master/mergJSON/mergJSONLibrary.livecodescript
- and then call “start using…”. Or,  more simply, copy the handlers from that stack into your own code.

An addition to the  dictionary entries for arrayToJSON and JSONToArray is definitely in order. Actually, the two handlers in question can be found in the mergJSONEncode and mergJSONDecode dictionary entries, if you first find those entries.

I remain rather puzzled that the multi-dimensional array handlers were not embedded in the mergJSON C-code library in the first place by Monte or LC when they took it over. Blazing speed when communicating with javascript, which is where these calls would most likely be used particularly with LCServer, would seem to be imperative. Maybe the internal implementation of arrays was yet not settled? Whatever, a fix for this code lacuna would be nice, if unlikely to happen.

[Actually in my case I wasn't talking to javascript. All I wanted was a way to transport an array from the server back to a client.  The  serialisation arrayEncode worked for me once I realised the keys and elements of the array all had to be in utf-16 encoding, anything in utf-8 could cause the decoding to fail. And for safety in sending over the net I also base64encoded - was this last step necessary or just paranoia?]

Neville Smythe


 








From monte.goulding at livecode.com  Sun Oct 29 21:07:22 2023
From: monte.goulding at livecode.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2023 12:07:22 +1100
Subject: arrayToJSON not working in lcserver on Linux - resolved
In-Reply-To: <21652F76-FFD4-444B-A700-8BE2DEC1A115@optusnet.com.au>
References: <mailman.1.1697731201.435780.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <21652F76-FFD4-444B-A700-8BE2DEC1A115@optusnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <5E4ED87D-030F-404B-86E0-348396310405@livecode.com>


> On 30 Oct 2023, at 11:00 am, Neville Smythe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I remain rather puzzled that the multi-dimensional array handlers were not embedded in the mergJSON C-code library in the first place by Monte or LC when they took it over. Blazing speed when communicating with javascript, which is where these calls would most likely be used particularly with LCServer, would seem to be imperative. Maybe the internal implementation of arrays was yet not settled? Whatever, a fix for this code lacuna would be nice, if unlikely to happen.

Hi Neville

There is no multi-dimensional array support in the externals API. If I were implementing mergJSON from scratch now I would use LCB and direct calls to Jansson. I don’t think we could just change mergJSON in a backwards compatible way unfortunately. I agree our server docs should detail the installation of any support libraries for included externals and it would likely be helpful if server had a built in extension loader so you can just put extensions in a folder near it.

Cheers

Monte

From runrevron at gmail.com  Sun Oct 29 21:35:53 2023
From: runrevron at gmail.com (ron barber)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2023 09:35:53 +0800
Subject: Open new windows as  tab not working?
Message-ID: <FF366D35-5141-40E4-87AC-99B91592CE97@gmail.com>

I had a standalone built using Mac 10.14; LC 9.03.  Sonoma broke the menus (actually the app would not even open) so I upgraded LC to 9.6.10 and that solved the menu problem.

However now a user is reporting and I have confirmed that the option to open new windows as a tab in the existing window no longer works. That is, LC 9.0.3 build respected the tab setting but the 9.6.10 build does not. This is handled by the system preferences in Dock:  “Prefer tabs when opening documents” .

Is this a bug or is there a workaround or do I need to upgrade LC?

Thanks for your suggestions
Ron

From dvglasgow at gmail.com  Mon Oct 30 13:17:46 2023
From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David Glasgow)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2023 17:17:46 +0000
Subject: Filter with wildcards
Message-ID: <007A938B-3793-4D4A-ACAB-58A13E559AA9@gmail.com>

Hi folks,

I am doing the above and struggling with an oddity that I can’t find guidance on on Livecode or wider wildcard stuff

A simple example is I am searching text messages for 'with you' or 'with u’

so I use the wildcard form

*with [you,u]*

That finds all examples of both just fine.  However, it also finds ‘with unlimited cheese’ and 'with us’, ‘with yours’ etc.  so I want a space after both u

When I put two spaces inside the square brackets after each string, the search still works but spaces seem to be ignored (so still finds the above resamples I don’t want).

If I put a single space after the brackets the first bracketed string is ignored and the filter only finds “with u “

Hope someone can help me stop pulling my baffled face

Cheers

David Glasgow



From craig at starfirelighting.com  Mon Oct 30 14:11:35 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2023 14:11:35 -0400
Subject: Filter with wildcards
In-Reply-To: <007A938B-3793-4D4A-ACAB-58A13E559AA9@gmail.com>
References: <007A938B-3793-4D4A-ACAB-58A13E559AA9@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EF7F91D8-E5A8-43B1-8810-0F9A2A76467D@starfirelighting.com>

Have not played with a method of keeping it all in one line. But can you filter twice, storing the first result and then running it again?

Craig

> On Oct 30, 2023, at 1:17 PM, David Glasgow via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi folks,
> 
> I am doing the above and struggling with an oddity that I can’t find guidance on on Livecode or wider wildcard stuff
> 
> A simple example is I am searching text messages for 'with you' or 'with u’
> 
> so I use the wildcard form
> 
> *with [you,u]*
> 
> That finds all examples of both just fine.  However, it also finds ‘with unlimited cheese’ and 'with us’, ‘with yours’ etc.  so I want a space after both u
> 
> When I put two spaces inside the square brackets after each string, the search still works but spaces seem to be ignored (so still finds the above resamples I don’t want).
> 
> If I put a single space after the brackets the first bracketed string is ignored and the filter only finds “with u “
> 
> Hope someone can help me stop pulling my baffled face
> 
> Cheers
> 
> David Glasgow
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Mon Oct 30 14:30:14 2023
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2023 20:30:14 +0200
Subject: Filter with wildcards
In-Reply-To: <007A938B-3793-4D4A-ACAB-58A13E559AA9@gmail.com>
References: <007A938B-3793-4D4A-ACAB-58A13E559AA9@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <423a00c1-84de-40ec-acc0-046f19402eaa@gmail.com>

OK: well I had a bash with a set like this:

with unlimited cheese

with you

with u

with udders clagged with glaur

with youthful naivety

and your filter grabbed all of them. :(

I tried this:

with"with [you, u,]*"

and got the same.

On reading in the dictionary I found this:

filtertVar with"[az]*"-- tVar contains all property names beginning with 
a or z

and the problematic phrase is 'beginning with'.

On 30.10.23 19:17, David Glasgow via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> I am doing the above and struggling with an oddity that I cant find guidance on on Livecode or wider wildcard stuff
>
> A simple example is I am searching text messages for 'with you' or 'with u
>
> so I use the wildcard form
>
> *with [you,u]*
>
> That finds all examples of both just fine.  However, it also finds with unlimited cheese and 'with us, with yours etc.  so I want a space after both u
>
> When I put two spaces inside the square brackets after each string, the search still works but spaces seem to be ignored (so still finds the above resamples I dont want).
>
> If I put a single space after the brackets the first bracketed string is ignored and the filter only finds with u 
>
> Hope someone can help me stop pulling my baffled face
>
> Cheers
>
> David Glasgow
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Mon Oct 30 14:48:00 2023
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2023 20:48:00 +0200
Subject: Filter with wildcards
In-Reply-To: <EF7F91D8-E5A8-43B1-8810-0F9A2A76467D@starfirelighting.com>
References: <007A938B-3793-4D4A-ACAB-58A13E559AA9@gmail.com>
 <EF7F91D8-E5A8-43B1-8810-0F9A2A76467D@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <d321d079-119e-4ebf-9c82-9794ecb983a8@gmail.com>

Oddly enough a matchChunk expression with "with you$" pulls out all the 
'with you' stuff and excludes this sort of thing: 'with youthful 
naivety' . . . which is marvellous

But a matchChunk expression with "with u$" catches nothing!

On 30.10.23 20:11, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote:
> Have not played with a method of keeping it all in one line. But can you filter twice, storing the first result and then running it again?
>
> Craig
>
>> On Oct 30, 2023, at 1:17 PM, David Glasgow via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> I am doing the above and struggling with an oddity that I cant find guidance on on Livecode or wider wildcard stuff
>>
>> A simple example is I am searching text messages for 'with you' or 'with u
>>
>> so I use the wildcard form
>>
>> *with [you,u]*
>>
>> That finds all examples of both just fine.  However, it also finds with unlimited cheese and 'with us, with yours etc.  so I want a space after both u
>>
>> When I put two spaces inside the square brackets after each string, the search still works but spaces seem to be ignored (so still finds the above resamples I dont want).
>>
>> If I put a single space after the brackets the first bracketed string is ignored and the filter only finds with u 
>>
>> Hope someone can help me stop pulling my baffled face
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> David Glasgow
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Mon Oct 30 15:06:14 2023
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2023 21:06:14 +0200
Subject: Filter with wildcards
In-Reply-To: <007A938B-3793-4D4A-ACAB-58A13E559AA9@gmail.com>
References: <007A938B-3793-4D4A-ACAB-58A13E559AA9@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3e1e4fd1-bd7d-428a-8e72-adcf7dc75008@gmail.com>

I think that matchText is what you are looking for.

I have a proof stack which I shall upload to the forums, as obviously 
this is not possible here:

https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=38698

Best, Richmond Mathewson.

On 30.10.23 19:17, David Glasgow via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> I am doing the above and struggling with an oddity that I cant find guidance on on Livecode or wider wildcard stuff
>
> A simple example is I am searching text messages for 'with you' or 'with u
>
> so I use the wildcard form
>
> *with [you,u]*
>
> That finds all examples of both just fine.  However, it also finds with unlimited cheese and 'with us, with yours etc.  so I want a space after both u
>
> When I put two spaces inside the square brackets after each string, the search still works but spaces seem to be ignored (so still finds the above resamples I dont want).
>
> If I put a single space after the brackets the first bracketed string is ignored and the filter only finds with u 
>
> Hope someone can help me stop pulling my baffled face
>
> Cheers
>
> David Glasgow
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From mark at livecode.com  Mon Oct 30 15:29:28 2023
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2023 19:29:28 +0000
Subject: Filter with wildcards
In-Reply-To: <007A938B-3793-4D4A-ACAB-58A13E559AA9@gmail.com>
References: <007A938B-3793-4D4A-ACAB-58A13E559AA9@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8241BF1B-50E8-409A-A4BF-621CAEE56D37@livecode.com>

The filter command has had a ‘with[out] regex’ form for a long time - so I’d use a regex instead :)

(I’m pretty sure [ ] is a set of characters to match, rather than a list of sub strings, in wildcard expressions)

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 30 Oct 2023, at 17:19, David Glasgow via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi folks,
> 
> I am doing the above and struggling with an oddity that I can’t find guidance on on Livecode or wider wildcard stuff
> 
> A simple example is I am searching text messages for 'with you' or 'with u’
> 
> so I use the wildcard form
> 
> *with [you,u]*
> 
> That finds all examples of both just fine.  However, it also finds ‘with unlimited cheese’ and 'with us’, ‘with yours’ etc.  so I want a space after both u
> 
> When I put two spaces inside the square brackets after each string, the search still works but spaces seem to be ignored (so still finds the above resamples I don’t want).
> 
> If I put a single space after the brackets the first bracketed string is ignored and the filter only finds “with u “
> 
> Hope someone can help me stop pulling my baffled face
> 
> Cheers
> 
> David Glasgow
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au  Tue Oct 31 16:26:20 2023
From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe)
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2023 07:26:20 +1100
Subject: Filter with wildcards
Message-ID: <4EFDA632-E545-4A80-B3C4-EF2121354228@optusnet.com.au>

Reglar expressions is definitely the way to go

So you want to catch any number of characters
.*
Followed by the string “with “
.*with 
Followed by either “you” or “u”
.*with (you|u)
Followed by a space and then any umber of characters, giving
.*with (you|u) .*

Except you might want to look for lines ending in with you, or a period
.*with (you|u)( .*|\.|$)

And what about “With You”. Since regex is case sensitive by default 
(?i).*with (you|u)( .*|\.|$)

Filter tList with regex "(?i).*with (you|u)( .*|\.|$)"

Writing this in a rush so I hope I haven’t got that wrong

Neville Smythe





From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au  Tue Oct 31 16:37:41 2023
From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe)
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2023 07:37:41 +1100
Subject: Filter with wildcards
Message-ID: <F7AE017D-19F2-46B8-B065-DA3230C5E155@optusnet.com.au>

Filter tList with regex "(?i).*with (you|u)( .*|\.|$)"

I did forget something … wth you might be folllowed by a comma or colon or something so the last brackets should search for either any non alphabetic character or the end of line, so think (going from memory here)

Filter tList with regex "(?i).*with (you|u)([^a-zA-Z]|$)”


Neville Smythe





From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au  Tue Oct 31 16:59:07 2023
From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe)
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2023 07:59:07 +1100
Subject: Filter with wildcards
Message-ID: <CE865EE3-2043-4847-880D-76BD96908352@optusnet.com.au>

Forgot any number of other chars after the non-numeric character

Filter tList with regex "(?i).*with (you|u)([^a-zA-Z].*|$)”

Now I’ve really got to go … hope I’ve got it all right this time! 

Neville Smythe





From scott at elementarysoftware.com  Sun Oct  1 04:07:05 2023
From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (scott at elementarysoftware.com)
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2023 01:07:05 -0700
Subject: Samsung Galaxy Android Nav Bar
Message-ID: <F559622C-EAFE-4B0E-9D0A-F41913AC2B1A@elementarysoftware.com>

I’m having trouble with the on-screen Navigation Bar at the bottom of the Android screen not being detected correctly on some devices (Samsung Galaxy S22 for instance). When positioning controls based on < the working screenRect > I end up with app controls that I position at the bottom of the screen being partially obscured by the Android NavBar. (I did also try < effective working screenRect > just in case but that didn’t help either… just like it wasn’t supposed to  :- )

I suppose this may have been an issue for a long time and I’ve just never noticed. It doesn’t seem to show up on any of the Android Studio simulators and I only have a couple of older physical android devices to test against, which also work as expected. I only recently noticed it on a friends newer Samsung device and then was able to test against it further using the Samsung developer portal which includes a nice “remote test lab” <https://developer.samsung.com/remotetestlab/devices/125/galaxy-s>

Any suggestions (or commiseration) would be welcome.

--
Scott Morrow

Elementary Software
(Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
web       https://elementarysoftware.com/
email     scott at elementarysoftware.com
booth    1-360-734-4701
------------------------------------------------------









From rolf.kocherhans at uzh.ch  Tue Oct  3 04:53:09 2023
From: rolf.kocherhans at uzh.ch (Rolf Kocherhans)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2023 08:53:09 +0000
Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1696089601.89108.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.1.1696089601.89108.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <B4839189-B0EC-4D3F-AB4B-2C04F0EB0563@uzh.ch>

@Matthias and the Mothership,

My Apple Developer account expired several years ago, and I'm facing a critical issue with one of my LiveCode Apps, Clarify, developed by Trevor DeVore. This app is extremely important to me.

Unfortunately, Clarify is no longer actively developed and has started crashing with Sonoma. I am wondering if there's a possibility to resolve this issue by signing the bundles. I am more than willing to invest in a new subscription with Apple if that's what it takes – I can't imagine my work without Clarify.

Could someone please test if signing the bundles might make an app functional again?
Your assistance in this matter would mean the world to me.

Cheers,
Rolf

Am 30.09.2023 um 18:00 schrieb use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com:

Maybe my observation is not the reason for the crash. Would really not make sense, when an unsigned app would crash instead of reporting an alert.

But code signing  the complete Livecode app bundle would proof it.

Did someone btw had a look at the system log file after the crash?


From heather at livecode.com  Tue Oct  3 06:24:49 2023
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2023 11:24:49 +0100
Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <B4839189-B0EC-4D3F-AB4B-2C04F0EB0563@uzh.ch>
References: <mailman.1.1696089601.89108.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <B4839189-B0EC-4D3F-AB4B-2C04F0EB0563@uzh.ch>
Message-ID: <8B04CB3A-EE65-4346-BC42-B5A10E599003@livecode.com>

Hi Rolf,

No, the problem is not related to signing. The problem centers on how Sonoma handles menus, and any app that contains a menu will crash on Sonoma unless built with LiveCode 9.6.10 or 10 dp-6.

Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 3 Oct 2023, at 09:53, Rolf Kocherhans via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> @Matthias and the Mothership,
> 
> My Apple Developer account expired several years ago, and I'm facing a critical issue with one of my LiveCode Apps, Clarify, developed by Trevor DeVore. This app is extremely important to me.
> 
> Unfortunately, Clarify is no longer actively developed and has started crashing with Sonoma. I am wondering if there's a possibility to resolve this issue by signing the bundles. I am more than willing to invest in a new subscription with Apple if that's what it takes – I can't imagine my work without Clarify.
> 
> Could someone please test if signing the bundles might make an app functional again?
> Your assistance in this matter would mean the world to me.
> 
> Cheers,
> Rolf
> 
> Am 30.09.2023 um 18:00 schrieb use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com:
> 
> Maybe my observation is not the reason for the crash. Would really not make sense, when an unsigned app would crash instead of reporting an alert.
> 
> But code signing  the complete Livecode app bundle would proof it.
> 
> Did someone btw had a look at the system log file after the crash?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Tue Oct  3 06:53:01 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2023 12:53:01 +0200
Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <8B04CB3A-EE65-4346-BC42-B5A10E599003@livecode.com>
References: <mailman.1.1696089601.89108.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <B4839189-B0EC-4D3F-AB4B-2C04F0EB0563@uzh.ch>
 <8B04CB3A-EE65-4346-BC42-B5A10E599003@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <05A7E909-CE87-47A0-B288-ADEB8F18643C@m-r-d.de>

Hi Heather,

thanks for clarifying the reason for the crashes.

At least this grants that standalones created with older LC versions will run as long as they do not contain a customized menu, right?

Regards,
Matthias


> Am 03.10.2023 um 12:24 schrieb Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi Rolf,
> 
> No, the problem is not related to signing. The problem centers on how Sonoma handles menus, and any app that contains a menu will crash on Sonoma unless built with LiveCode 9.6.10 or 10 dp-6.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On 3 Oct 2023, at 09:53, Rolf Kocherhans via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> @Matthias and the Mothership,
>> 
>> My Apple Developer account expired several years ago, and I'm facing a critical issue with one of my LiveCode Apps, Clarify, developed by Trevor DeVore. This app is extremely important to me.
>> 
>> Unfortunately, Clarify is no longer actively developed and has started crashing with Sonoma. I am wondering if there's a possibility to resolve this issue by signing the bundles. I am more than willing to invest in a new subscription with Apple if that's what it takes – I can't imagine my work without Clarify.
>> 
>> Could someone please test if signing the bundles might make an app functional again?
>> Your assistance in this matter would mean the world to me.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Rolf
>> 
>> Am 30.09.2023 um 18:00 schrieb use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com:
>> 
>> Maybe my observation is not the reason for the crash. Would really not make sense, when an unsigned app would crash instead of reporting an alert.
>> 
>> But code signing  the complete Livecode app bundle would proof it.
>> 
>> Did someone btw had a look at the system log file after the crash?
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From heather at livecode.com  Tue Oct  3 09:56:31 2023
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2023 14:56:31 +0100
Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <05A7E909-CE87-47A0-B288-ADEB8F18643C@m-r-d.de>
References: <mailman.1.1696089601.89108.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <B4839189-B0EC-4D3F-AB4B-2C04F0EB0563@uzh.ch>
 <8B04CB3A-EE65-4346-BC42-B5A10E599003@livecode.com>
 <05A7E909-CE87-47A0-B288-ADEB8F18643C@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <EF774AE9-5843-455E-87D7-1A0D50AEEA31@livecode.com>

Hi Matthias,

I think ANY menu will cause a crash. |f your app has no menus it will not be affected by the issue. Otherwise, it will crash, as does LiveCode itself  prior to the fix.

Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 3 Oct 2023, at 11:53, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Heather,
> 
> thanks for clarifying the reason for the crashes.
> 
> At least this grants that standalones created with older LC versions will run as long as they do not contain a customized menu, right?
> 
> Regards,
> Matthias
> 
> 
>> Am 03.10.2023 um 12:24 schrieb Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Hi Rolf,
>> 
>> No, the problem is not related to signing. The problem centers on how Sonoma handles menus, and any app that contains a menu will crash on Sonoma unless built with LiveCode 9.6.10 or 10 dp-6.
>> 
>> Best Regards,
>> 
>> Heather
>> 
>> Heather Laine
>> Customer Services Manager
>> LiveCode Ltd
>> www.livecode.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 3 Oct 2023, at 09:53, Rolf Kocherhans via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> @Matthias and the Mothership,
>>> 
>>> My Apple Developer account expired several years ago, and I'm facing a critical issue with one of my LiveCode Apps, Clarify, developed by Trevor DeVore. This app is extremely important to me.
>>> 
>>> Unfortunately, Clarify is no longer actively developed and has started crashing with Sonoma. I am wondering if there's a possibility to resolve this issue by signing the bundles. I am more than willing to invest in a new subscription with Apple if that's what it takes – I can't imagine my work without Clarify.
>>> 
>>> Could someone please test if signing the bundles might make an app functional again?
>>> Your assistance in this matter would mean the world to me.
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> Rolf
>>> 
>>> Am 30.09.2023 um 18:00 schrieb use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com:
>>> 
>>> Maybe my observation is not the reason for the crash. Would really not make sense, when an unsigned app would crash instead of reporting an alert.
>>> 
>>> But code signing  the complete Livecode app bundle would proof it.
>>> 
>>> Did someone btw had a look at the system log file after the crash?
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Tue Oct  3 10:19:28 2023
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2023 10:19:28 -0400
Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <B4839189-B0EC-4D3F-AB4B-2C04F0EB0563@uzh.ch>
References: <mailman.1.1696089601.89108.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <B4839189-B0EC-4D3F-AB4B-2C04F0EB0563@uzh.ch>
Message-ID: <000c01d9f604$a1bf6f40$e53e4dc0$@net>

You think you have it bad. Apple just announced the $17,000 older gold Apple Watches can no longer be fixed or have SW updates. Glad my VB6 apps, Timex and paper maps still work.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Rolf Kocherhans via use-livecode
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2023 4:53 AM
To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Cc: Rolf Kocherhans
Subject: Re: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma

@Matthias and the Mothership,

My Apple Developer account expired several years ago, and I'm facing a critical issue with one of my LiveCode Apps, Clarify, developed by Trevor DeVore. This app is extremely important to me.

Unfortunately, Clarify is no longer actively developed and has started crashing with Sonoma. I am wondering if there's a possibility to resolve this issue by signing the bundles. I am more than willing to invest in a new subscription with Apple if that's what it takes – I can't imagine my work without Clarify.

Could someone please test if signing the bundles might make an app functional again?
Your assistance in this matter would mean the world to me.

Cheers,
Rolf

Am 30.09.2023 um 18:00 schrieb use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com:

Maybe my observation is not the reason for the crash. Would really not make sense, when an unsigned app would crash instead of reporting an alert.

But code signing  the complete Livecode app bundle would proof it.

Did someone btw had a look at the system log file after the crash?

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Tue Oct  3 11:17:46 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2023 15:17:46 +0000
Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <EF774AE9-5843-455E-87D7-1A0D50AEEA31@livecode.com>
References: <mailman.1.1696089601.89108.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <B4839189-B0EC-4D3F-AB4B-2C04F0EB0563@uzh.ch>
 <8B04CB3A-EE65-4346-BC42-B5A10E599003@livecode.com>
 <05A7E909-CE87-47A0-B288-ADEB8F18643C@m-r-d.de>
 <EF774AE9-5843-455E-87D7-1A0D50AEEA31@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <A66944B3-FCDF-41B6-BCBE-E79D86574D1D@iotecdigital.com>

So for those upgrading to Sonoma, 9.6.10 and 10 dp6 are now a rubicon of sorts. There’s no going back. (I just needed to use the word Rubicon in a sentence today.) 

Bob S


> On Oct 3, 2023, at 6:56 AM, Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Matthias,
> 
> I think ANY menu will cause a crash. |f your app has no menus it will not be affected by the issue. Otherwise, it will crash, as does LiveCode itself  prior to the fix.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com


From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Tue Oct  3 12:09:12 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2023 18:09:12 +0200
Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <B4839189-B0EC-4D3F-AB4B-2C04F0EB0563@uzh.ch>
References: <mailman.1.1696089601.89108.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <B4839189-B0EC-4D3F-AB4B-2C04F0EB0563@uzh.ch>
Message-ID: <4974CBE3-DD67-4FBB-AB03-86F217139CD0@m-r-d.de>

Rolf,

now that Heather clarified that this problem has to do with menus,  only the developer of Clarify could help with a working version of Clarify for Sonoma.

Btw. Clarify (and Screensteps 2)  are two of the best tools i've ever used. I am still using Clarify regularly.
There is no real competitor for it. At least i do not know any program that has all the features and user comfort.

There is a program called Folge (https://folge.me <https://folge.me/>) and although i have a license for it and it gets better with each update, I can't get used to it..
Maybe i am just too spoiled by Clarify. ;)

Matthias

> Am 03.10.2023 um 10:53 schrieb Rolf Kocherhans via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> @Matthias and the Mothership,
> 
> My Apple Developer account expired several years ago, and I'm facing a critical issue with one of my LiveCode Apps, Clarify, developed by Trevor DeVore. This app is extremely important to me.
> 
> Unfortunately, Clarify is no longer actively developed and has started crashing with Sonoma. I am wondering if there's a possibility to resolve this issue by signing the bundles. I am more than willing to invest in a new subscription with Apple if that's what it takes – I can't imagine my work without Clarify.
> 
> Could someone please test if signing the bundles might make an app functional again?
> Your assistance in this matter would mean the world to me.
> 
> Cheers,
> Rolf
> 
> Am 30.09.2023 um 18:00 schrieb use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com:
> 
> Maybe my observation is not the reason for the crash. Would really not make sense, when an unsigned app would crash instead of reporting an alert.
> 
> But code signing  the complete Livecode app bundle would proof it.
> 
> Did someone btw had a look at the system log file after the crash?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Tue Oct  3 12:09:44 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2023 18:09:44 +0200
Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <EF774AE9-5843-455E-87D7-1A0D50AEEA31@livecode.com>
References: <mailman.1.1696089601.89108.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <B4839189-B0EC-4D3F-AB4B-2C04F0EB0563@uzh.ch>
 <8B04CB3A-EE65-4346-BC42-B5A10E599003@livecode.com>
 <05A7E909-CE87-47A0-B288-ADEB8F18643C@m-r-d.de>
 <EF774AE9-5843-455E-87D7-1A0D50AEEA31@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <D4AF850C-5177-41BF-BF61-2035877BF9C5@m-r-d.de>

Hello Heather,

i meant that simple default menu that is automatically created when Livecode creates a macOS standalone.

But tested now in Sonoma VM and my older apps without just that simple default menu run w/o problems.

> Am 03.10.2023 um 15:56 schrieb Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi Matthias,
> 
> I think ANY menu will cause a crash. |f your app has no menus it will not be affected by the issue. Otherwise, it will crash, as does LiveCode itself  prior to the fix.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On 3 Oct 2023, at 11:53, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Heather,
>> 
>> thanks for clarifying the reason for the crashes.
>> 
>> At least this grants that standalones created with older LC versions will run as long as they do not contain a customized menu, right?
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Matthias
>> 
>> 
>>> Am 03.10.2023 um 12:24 schrieb Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> Hi Rolf,
>>> 
>>> No, the problem is not related to signing. The problem centers on how Sonoma handles menus, and any app that contains a menu will crash on Sonoma unless built with LiveCode 9.6.10 or 10 dp-6.
>>> 
>>> Best Regards,
>>> 
>>> Heather
>>> 
>>> Heather Laine
>>> Customer Services Manager
>>> LiveCode Ltd
>>> www.livecode.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 3 Oct 2023, at 09:53, Rolf Kocherhans via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> @Matthias and the Mothership,
>>>> 
>>>> My Apple Developer account expired several years ago, and I'm facing a critical issue with one of my LiveCode Apps, Clarify, developed by Trevor DeVore. This app is extremely important to me.
>>>> 
>>>> Unfortunately, Clarify is no longer actively developed and has started crashing with Sonoma. I am wondering if there's a possibility to resolve this issue by signing the bundles. I am more than willing to invest in a new subscription with Apple if that's what it takes – I can't imagine my work without Clarify.
>>>> 
>>>> Could someone please test if signing the bundles might make an app functional again?
>>>> Your assistance in this matter would mean the world to me.
>>>> 
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Rolf
>>>> 
>>>> Am 30.09.2023 um 18:00 schrieb use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com:
>>>> 
>>>> Maybe my observation is not the reason for the crash. Would really not make sense, when an unsigned app would crash instead of reporting an alert.
>>>> 
>>>> But code signing  the complete Livecode app bundle would proof it.
>>>> 
>>>> Did someone btw had a look at the system log file after the crash?
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From dochawk at gmail.com  Tue Oct  3 13:32:49 2023
From: dochawk at gmail.com (doc hawk)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2023 10:32:49 -0700
Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <A66944B3-FCDF-41B6-BCBE-E79D86574D1D@iotecdigital.com>
References: <mailman.1.1696089601.89108.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <B4839189-B0EC-4D3F-AB4B-2C04F0EB0563@uzh.ch>
 <8B04CB3A-EE65-4346-BC42-B5A10E599003@livecode.com>
 <05A7E909-CE87-47A0-B288-ADEB8F18643C@m-r-d.de>
 <EF774AE9-5843-455E-87D7-1A0D50AEEA31@livecode.com>
 <A66944B3-FCDF-41B6-BCBE-E79D86574D1D@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <CANQHZSEYgwyR=1WXHxxa+zGRjcLwEDir0mPkmLuGvxeRBYYE8Q@mail.gmail.com>

bob bobbled,

So for those upgrading to Sonoma, 9.6.10 and 10 dp6 are now a rubicon of
sorts. There’s no going back. (I just needed to use the word Rubicon in a
sentence today.)


Shelly cahn’t speak with wi’out a New Ahngland oxcent, but Rubicon!

Ok, I’ll call back under my rock

From jiml at netrin.com  Tue Oct  3 17:38:00 2023
From: jiml at netrin.com (Jim Lambert)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2023 14:38:00 -0700
Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1696348802.86716.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.1.1696348802.86716.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <A1CE575D-CC51-4436-8325-9AE918781BAE@netrin.com>

> Bob wrote:
> 
> So for those upgrading to Sonoma, 9.6.10 and 10 dp6 are now a rubicon of sorts. There?s no going back. (I just needed to use the word Rubicon in a sentence today.)

Rubicon.  
Does that mean the rubes have been conned?
😉

Jim Lambert

From mark at livecode.com  Wed Oct  4 02:57:14 2023
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2023 07:57:14 +0100
Subject: Livecode 10dp6 and web fonts
In-Reply-To: <31e0834e-343a-5294-7edf-2db21a993001@researchware.com>
References: <31e0834e-343a-5294-7edf-2db21a993001@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <f8c2147871dbb41a50b0eff131025ffd@livecode.com>

On 2023-09-27 15:49, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
> I get the value of web font support in LC10dp6 for WEB based 
> applications.
> 
> However, if you making a multi-platform application, you still have the 
> issue of UI consistency across platforms as web fonts can't be used in 
> desktop standalones (or, I assume, phone standalones)

It is true that web fonts are a 'browser' thing - however, you can still 
download the underlying TTF files from the web font service and include 
them in native standalones if you want to use the same fonts across web 
and native apps (obviously, you need to check the license the fonts are 
served under - but that's true with any non-system fonts you might 
include at the moment).

In the future we could look at making font inclusion easier in 
standalones cross-platform (i.e. allow specifying fonts in the s/b at a 
higher-level and then it doing the right thing) - however, there are 
some engine improvements to font selection across the different 
platforms we need to do first (in particularly, 'fixing' the font 
enumeration properties and allowing specification of different weights 
and stretches via the textStyle properties!).

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things


From paul at researchware.com  Wed Oct  4 06:28:48 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2023 06:28:48 -0400
Subject: Livecode 10dp6 and web fonts
In-Reply-To: <f8c2147871dbb41a50b0eff131025ffd@livecode.com>
References: <31e0834e-343a-5294-7edf-2db21a993001@researchware.com>
 <f8c2147871dbb41a50b0eff131025ffd@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <cb885327-85f2-0134-8cf7-86e4487f18a8@researchware.com>

On 10/4/2023 2:57 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:
> On 2023-09-27 15:49, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
>> I get the value of web font support in LC10dp6 for WEB based 
>> applications.
>>
>> However, if you making a multi-platform application, you still have 
>> the issue of UI consistency across platforms as web fonts can't be 
>> used in desktop standalones (or, I assume, phone standalones)
>
> It is true that web fonts are a 'browser' thing - however, you can 
> still download the underlying TTF files from the web font service and 
> include them in native standalones if you want to use the same fonts 
> across web and native apps (obviously, you need to check the license 
> the fonts are served under - but that's true with any non-system fonts 
> you might include at the moment).
>
> In the future we could look at making font inclusion easier in 
> standalones cross-platform (i.e. allow specifying fonts in the s/b at 
> a higher-level and then it doing the right thing) - however, there are 
> some engine improvements to font selection across the different 
> platforms we need to do first (in particularly, 'fixing' the font 
> enumeration properties and allowing specification of different weights 
> and stretches via the textStyle properties!).
>
> Warmest Regards,
>
> Mark.
>

Thank you again Mark. I did not know that "Web" font, like most (All?) 
Google fonts could be downloaded as TTF files (I just downloaded 
Google's Roboto family - a ZIP with Roboto in various styles as ttf 
files) and use them in Desktop builds  This is good to know. I use 
Google Fonts on a number of web sites. I never thought to even look into 
their use as a downloadable font!



From paul at researchware.com  Wed Oct  4 17:12:39 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2023 17:12:39 -0400
Subject: LC 9.6.10 standalone with Pallette issues under Sonoma
Message-ID: <f86c717a-f4f0-4770-a3fc-df11431d5c8c@researchware.com>

We're just in the middle of testing, but we're seeing some issues where 
the contents of a palette window are not rendering (just an empty 
window) in a Livecode 9.6.10 standalone under macOS Sonoma.

Anyone else see anything like this?



From paul at researchware.com  Wed Oct  4 19:15:22 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2023 19:15:22 -0400
Subject: LC 9.6.10 standalone with Pallette issues under Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <f86c717a-f4f0-4770-a3fc-df11431d5c8c@researchware.com>
References: <f86c717a-f4f0-4770-a3fc-df11431d5c8c@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <ba7a887a-3596-9f5d-bf2d-7c28755800c8@researchware.com>

On 10/4/2023 5:12 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
> We're just in the middle of testing, but we're seeing some issues 
> where the contents of a palette window are not rendering (just an 
> empty window) in a Livecode 9.6.10 standalone under macOS Sonoma.
>
> Anyone else see anything like this?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

We're also seeing that fields that contain in-line images among the 
text/content of the field do not render under Sonoma using a standalone 
built on LC 9.6.10. Thursday, we'll try to make a sample test stack to 
confirm this.



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu Oct  5 17:24:29 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2023 21:24:29 +0000
Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <A1CE575D-CC51-4436-8325-9AE918781BAE@netrin.com>
References: <mailman.1.1696348802.86716.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <A1CE575D-CC51-4436-8325-9AE918781BAE@netrin.com>
Message-ID: <F406FDFF-66FC-4147-8722-CDAF5E9B882E@iotecdigital.com>

I think it refers to the belly rub emoji. (Rub Icon? Anyone?? <sigh> never mind.)

Bob S


> On Oct 3, 2023, at 2:38 PM, Jim Lambert via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Bob wrote:
>> 
>> So for those upgrading to Sonoma, 9.6.10 and 10 dp6 are now a rubicon of sorts. There?s no going back. (I just needed to use the word Rubicon in a sentence today.)
> 
> Rubicon.  
> Does that mean the rubes have been conned?
> 😉
> 
> Jim Lambert
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From paul at researchware.com  Thu Oct  5 17:44:26 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2023 17:44:26 -0400
Subject: AW: LC 9.6.10 standalone with Pallette issues under Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <f86c717a-f4f0-4770-a3fc-df11431d5c8c@researchware.com>
References: <f86c717a-f4f0-4770-a3fc-df11431d5c8c@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <1b27c9a7-945f-7573-6137-a6e0637a8524@researchware.com>

On 10/4/2023 5:12 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
> We're just in the middle of testing, but we're seeing some issues 
> where the contents of a palette window are not rendering (just an 
> empty window) in a Livecode 9.6.10 standalone under macOS Sonoma.
>
> Anyone else see anything like this?

Okay, this was all a false alarm and a code error. Some contractor code 
was designed pre-Big Sur (and whatever version of LC fixed Big Sus 
reporting as version 10.16) and only looked at if the first number of 
the version was 10 to determine what if it was OSX. Sorry for the false 
suspicion that it may have been an LC on Sonoma problem.



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Oct  6 02:18:19 2023
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (ambassador at fourthworld.com)
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2023 06:18:19 +0000
Subject: AW: LC 9.6.10 standalone with Pallette issues under Sonoma
Message-ID: <2de0ff988d1a0fd4afc00a2d1ee36ebba4b58e77@fourthworld.com>

Paul Dupuis wrote:
>> We're just in the middle of testing, but we're seeing some issues
>> where the contents of a palette window are not rendering (just an
>> empty window) in a Livecode 9.6.10 standalone under macOS Sonoma.
>>
>> Anyone else see anything like this?
>
> Okay, this was all a false alarm and a code error. Some contractor
> code was designed pre-Big Sur (and whatever version of LC fixed Big
> Sus reporting as version 10.16) and only looked at if the first
> number of the version was 10 to determine what if it was OSX.

If it was to distinguish OSX from Classic you got a lot of life out of it, as Apple didn't change the major version number for decades. :)

But I'm curious: was it just an errant condition triggering a hide, or did it trigger a deeper bug in the engine which prevents LC from rendering the content region of the window?

--  
Richard Gaskin
Fourth World Systems


From dan at clearvisiontech.com  Fri Oct  6 18:44:22 2023
From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman)
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2023 22:44:22 +0000
Subject: I give up!  Mac App Installer Hell
In-Reply-To: <2de0ff988d1a0fd4afc00a2d1ee36ebba4b58e77@fourthworld.com>
References: <2de0ff988d1a0fd4afc00a2d1ee36ebba4b58e77@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <BYAPR12MB270922CCD99CAD3C3747322BB9C9A@BYAPR12MB2709.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>

If you have a very, very, VERY good understanding of creating Mac installer files to be posted to a website for user install, and to submit to the Mac App Store, I would like to pay you to walk me through all this - step by step.  I can’t take any of more this crap!  Certificates, Identifiers, Profiles, p12 Files, Keys (public and private), Provisioning, Installer keys… GRRRR!!!  I have an app that is tested, built and ready to go.  Just need to get it signed and uploaded to Apple.   If you understand all this, I would think a 20 minute Skype call should get it done.

FYI… This is an update to an existing app that is already in the app store.  (Don’t ask me how I got it done last time?!).  I don’t know why my brain can’t grasp this…. I have read Apple’s documentation, tried the (out of date) LC Lesions, watched videos, and gone through article after article.   At this point, I am not really interested in learning how to do this… I just want to get it done.

Save me!
-Dan

From alex at tweedly.net  Fri Oct  6 19:28:09 2023
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2023 00:28:09 +0100
Subject: I give up! Mac App Installer Hell
In-Reply-To: <BYAPR12MB270922CCD99CAD3C3747322BB9C9A@BYAPR12MB2709.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
References: <2de0ff988d1a0fd4afc00a2d1ee36ebba4b58e77@fourthworld.com>
 <BYAPR12MB270922CCD99CAD3C3747322BB9C9A@BYAPR12MB2709.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <7705f4ec-0261-4844-9bbb-dcefccecf844@tweedly.net>

I'm afraid I can't help - wish I could.

But I have to say that "... tried the (out of date) LC Lesions," must be 
the best auto-correct failure this week.

Alex.

On 06/10/2023 23:44, Dan Friedman via use-livecode wrote:
> If you have a very, very, VERY good understanding of creating Mac installer files to be posted to a website for user install, and to submit to the Mac App Store, I would like to pay you to walk me through all this - step by step.  I cant take any of more this crap!  Certificates, Identifiers, Profiles, p12 Files, Keys (public and private), Provisioning, Installer keys GRRRR!!!  I have an app that is tested, built and ready to go.  Just need to get it signed and uploaded to Apple.   If you understand all this, I would think a 20 minute Skype call should get it done.
>
> FYI This is an update to an existing app that is already in the app store.  (Dont ask me how I got it done last time?!).  I dont know why my brain cant grasp this. I have read Apples documentation, tried the (out of date) LC Lesions, watched videos, and gone through article after article.   At this point, I am not really interested in learning how to do this I just want to get it done.
>
> Save me!
> -Dan
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

From irog at mac.com  Fri Oct  6 20:14:50 2023
From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay)
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2023 17:14:50 -0700
Subject: I give up!  Mac App Installer Hell
In-Reply-To: <BYAPR12MB270922CCD99CAD3C3747322BB9C9A@BYAPR12MB2709.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
References: <2de0ff988d1a0fd4afc00a2d1ee36ebba4b58e77@fourthworld.com>
 <BYAPR12MB270922CCD99CAD3C3747322BB9C9A@BYAPR12MB2709.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <23D846D9-7F47-4641-AC74-56128D09F353@mac.com>

I’m totally with you, Dan, but even though I’ve done it before as well. I have no idea what I did. I’ve given up trying to develop apps for iOS and stopped my Apple Developer subscription out of this frustration.

Good luck! Somebody save us all!! Why can’t LC do this for us? Maybe ChatGPT??

Roger

> On Oct 6, 2023, at 3:44 PM, Dan Friedman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> If you have a very, very, VERY good understanding of creating Mac installer files to be posted to a website for user install, and to submit to the Mac App Store, I would like to pay you to walk me through all this - step by step.  I can’t take any of more this crap!  Certificates, Identifiers, Profiles, p12 Files, Keys (public and private), Provisioning, Installer keys… GRRRR!!!  I have an app that is tested, built and ready to go.  Just need to get it signed and uploaded to Apple.   If you understand all this, I would think a 20 minute Skype call should get it done.
> 
> FYI… This is an update to an existing app that is already in the app store.  (Don’t ask me how I got it done last time?!).  I don’t know why my brain can’t grasp this…. I have read Apple’s documentation, tried the (out of date) LC Lesions, watched videos, and gone through article after article.   At this point, I am not really interested in learning how to do this… I just want to get it done.
> 
> Save me!
> -Dan
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Mon Oct  9 11:37:55 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2023 16:37:55 +0100
Subject: I give up!  Mac App Installer Hell
In-Reply-To: <BYAPR12MB270922CCD99CAD3C3747322BB9C9A@BYAPR12MB2709.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
References: <2de0ff988d1a0fd4afc00a2d1ee36ebba4b58e77@fourthworld.com>
 <BYAPR12MB270922CCD99CAD3C3747322BB9C9A@BYAPR12MB2709.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <AC9FA3CC-08CB-4066-9623-54A418E6D650@gmail.com>

Hi Dan,

Which store are you intending to submit to: Mac App or iOS App? I’ve done it to iOS a half dozen times (although the last time was probably more than a year ago) I could probably scrounge something useful together. I’ve only created installer packages for the Mac App Store (using Kee Nethery’s excellent livecode lesson “Signing and Uploading Apps to the Mac App Store” but which are, as you point out, out of date (Matthias was very helpful in helping me sort which parts to ignore and which parts to pay attention to) but I’ve only gotten to the point of creating an installer package (which I’m using to install and test the app on several different Macs) so I’ve not yet submitted to the App Store. That is the next step on my list, although this week is a write-off in terms of time, and in fact this month might be a write-off. However, if you are having difficulty creating the installer package I would be happy to send you my crib notes which are pretty brief and easy to follow. 

Mark

> On 6 Oct 2023, at 11:44 pm, Dan Friedman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> If you have a very, very, VERY good understanding of creating Mac installer files to be posted to a website for user install, and to submit to the Mac App Store, I would like to pay you to walk me through all this - step by step.  I can’t take any of more this crap!  Certificates, Identifiers, Profiles, p12 Files, Keys (public and private), Provisioning, Installer keys… GRRRR!!!  I have an app that is tested, built and ready to go.  Just need to get it signed and uploaded to Apple.   If you understand all this, I would think a 20 minute Skype call should get it done.
> 
> FYI… This is an update to an existing app that is already in the app store.  (Don’t ask me how I got it done last time?!).  I don’t know why my brain can’t grasp this…. I have read Apple’s documentation, tried the (out of date) LC Lesions, watched videos, and gone through article after article.   At this point, I am not really interested in learning how to do this… I just want to get it done.
> 
> Save me!
> -Dan
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Mon Oct  9 15:49:56 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2023 15:49:56 -0400
Subject: I give up! Mac App Installer Hell
In-Reply-To: <AC9FA3CC-08CB-4066-9623-54A418E6D650@gmail.com>
References: <2de0ff988d1a0fd4afc00a2d1ee36ebba4b58e77@fourthworld.com>
 <BYAPR12MB270922CCD99CAD3C3747322BB9C9A@BYAPR12MB2709.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
 <AC9FA3CC-08CB-4066-9623-54A418E6D650@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycPNZNvDdiAJa+nUMP3MzbSZcZmA6pc9sr0qyBHGQ2KROw@mail.gmail.com>

ios is much more straightforward than it was, even a couple of years ago. i
would call it "nearly painless", now.
mac...sorry, no do.

On Mon, Oct 9, 2023 at 11:39 AM Mark Smith via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Dan,
>
> Which store are you intending to submit to: Mac App or iOS App? I’ve done
> it to iOS a half dozen times (although the last time was probably more than
> a year ago) I could probably scrounge something useful together. I’ve only
> created installer packages for the Mac App Store (using Kee Nethery’s
> excellent livecode lesson “Signing and Uploading Apps to the Mac App Store”
> but which are, as you point out, out of date (Matthias was very helpful in
> helping me sort which parts to ignore and which parts to pay attention to)
> but I’ve only gotten to the point of creating an installer package (which
> I’m using to install and test the app on several different Macs) so I’ve
> not yet submitted to the App Store. That is the next step on my list,
> although this week is a write-off in terms of time, and in fact this month
> might be a write-off. However, if you are having difficulty creating the
> installer package I would be happy to send you my crib notes which are
> pretty brief and easy to follow.
>
> Mark
>
> > On 6 Oct 2023, at 11:44 pm, Dan Friedman via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > If you have a very, very, VERY good understanding of creating Mac
> installer files to be posted to a website for user install, and to submit
> to the Mac App Store, I would like to pay you to walk me through all this -
> step by step.  I can’t take any of more this crap!  Certificates,
> Identifiers, Profiles, p12 Files, Keys (public and private), Provisioning,
> Installer keys… GRRRR!!!  I have an app that is tested, built and ready to
> go.  Just need to get it signed and uploaded to Apple.   If you understand
> all this, I would think a 20 minute Skype call should get it done.
> >
> > FYI… This is an update to an existing app that is already in the app
> store.  (Don’t ask me how I got it done last time?!).  I don’t know why my
> brain can’t grasp this…. I have read Apple’s documentation, tried the (out
> of date) LC Lesions, watched videos, and gone through article after
> article.   At this point, I am not really interested in learning how to do
> this… I just want to get it done.
> >
> > Save me!
> > -Dan
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Oct  9 17:46:33 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2023 16:46:33 -0500
Subject: Can't codesign Mac app
Message-ID: <7d213e86-a1bd-be2a-e809-27c563860bc8@hyperactivesw.com>

I'm using Matthias' mrSignNotarizeHelper V3.1 with xCode 13.2.1 on Mac OS 12.6.9 (Monterey) but 
get a script error. The same thing happens in both LC 9.6.9 and 9.6.10 dp 6.

So then I tried notarizationHelper V4 but keep getting "no identity found" errors. I've tried 
all the suggestions in the lesson. This is pretty critical for me right now, does anyone know 
what's wrong? It was last signed successfully in May of this year.

I need to codesign today...

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Oct  9 18:13:09 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2023 17:13:09 -0500
Subject: Can't codesign Mac app
In-Reply-To: <7d213e86-a1bd-be2a-e809-27c563860bc8@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <7d213e86-a1bd-be2a-e809-27c563860bc8@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <efabbbb6-d81d-84a3-6e46-e3201dc2520b@hyperactivesw.com>

On 10/9/23 4:46 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
> I'm using Matthias' mrSignNotarizeHelper V3.1 with xCode 13.2.1 on Mac OS 12.6.9 (Monterey) but 
> get a script error. The same thing happens in both LC 9.6.9 and 9.6.10 dp 6.
> 
> So then I tried notarizationHelper V4 but keep getting "no identity found" errors. I've tried 
> all the suggestions in the lesson. This is pretty critical for me right now, does anyone know 
> what's wrong? It was last signed successfully in May of this year.
> 
> I need to codesign today...
> 

Addendum: there were breakpoints in the script, which I thought at first were errors, in 
version 3.1. I removed them, and while it did not break into the debugger any more I am still 
getting "no identity found."

I have tried with and without a space after "Developer ID Application:". All the other fields 
in settings are as they were before when it worked. All certificates and the app password are 
correct, valid, and available in KeyChain Access.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From paul at researchware.com  Mon Oct  9 18:18:01 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2023 18:18:01 -0400
Subject: Can't codesign Mac app
In-Reply-To: <7d213e86-a1bd-be2a-e809-27c563860bc8@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <7d213e86-a1bd-be2a-e809-27c563860bc8@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <59f5ab50-ed55-0e6e-f05a-4503f70a984b@researchware.com>

On 10/9/2023 5:46 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
> I'm using Matthias' mrSignNotarizeHelper V3.1 with xCode 13.2.1 on Mac 
> OS 12.6.9 (Monterey) but get a script error. The same thing happens in 
> both LC 9.6.9 and 9.6.10 dp 6.
>
> So then I tried notarizationHelper V4 but keep getting "no identity 
> found" errors. I've tried all the suggestions in the lesson. This is 
> pretty critical for me right now, does anyone know what's wrong? It 
> was last signed successfully in May of this year.
>
> I need to codesign today...
>

I struggle with Apple's developer requirements, and I am not sure of my 
memory, but I think I recall that error suggest with the keychain is 
missing the cert or something else where the tool can't find the signing 
certificate.



From bleiler at buffalo.edu  Mon Oct  9 18:23:01 2023
From: bleiler at buffalo.edu (Timothy Bleiler)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2023 22:23:01 +0000
Subject: Can't codesign Mac app
In-Reply-To: <7d213e86-a1bd-be2a-e809-27c563860bc8@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <7d213e86-a1bd-be2a-e809-27c563860bc8@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <761047C9-9A2A-4005-9D6E-8F7039550BC1@buffalo.edu>

Jacqueline,

I had a similar problem recently.  There were a couple of problems I had to fix.  My error occurred during the notarization step after code signing.

One problem was that somehow my Mac was NOT a trusted device for the Apple ID I was using for development.
Verify that your Apple ID is trusted at appleid.apple.com<http://appleid.apple.com/> for your account under devices.  You must click on the specific device “button" to find out.  Just seeing it listed is not enough.

Despite the device not being trusted for the account, the Apple developer website let me think I’d created an app-specific password. I hadn’t succeed, but my lack of experience prevented me from realizing that the second step of the process is getting the actual password back from Apple and copying it down.  I didn’t get anything, no error message, so in my ignorance I thought the seed string I’d typed in WAS the password. So, I did NOT have an actual app-specific password to use in the NotaryTool commands or in the settings mrSignNotarizeHelper V4. This caused all commands dependent on an app-specific password to fail.

What solved it for me was to go to System Settings, sign out of the Apple account on the mac and sign back in again.
Then sign back in to appleid.apple.com<http://appleid.apple.com/>, verify that my Mac was a trusted device on my developer account and then create a NEW app-specific password at the Apple developer website.
This time I saw the second part when they send the actual password. You need to copy this down because there’s no way to recover it again later.

Once I had the new app-specific password and my Mac was a trusted device in my developer account, the notaryTool commands and mrSignNotarizeHelper worked without errors.


Tim Bleiler, Ph.D.
Instructional Designer, HSIT
University at Buffalo



On Oct 9, 2023, at 5:46 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

I'm using Matthias' mrSignNotarizeHelper V3.1 with xCode 13.2.1 on Mac OS 12.6.9 (Monterey) but get a script error. The same thing happens in both LC 9.6.9 and 9.6.10 dp 6.

So then I tried notarizationHelper V4 but keep getting "no identity found" errors. I've tried all the suggestions in the lesson. This is pretty critical for me right now, does anyone know what's wrong? It was last signed successfully in May of this year.

I need to codesign today...

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hyperactivesw.com%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cbleiler%40buffalo.edu%7C53ef9ca6c3554f11c41d08dbc9114fc7%7C96464a8af8ed40b199e25f6b50a20250%7C0%7C0%7C638324848455267470%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=SSTeiAkNbmWvOHZJ3Xqd8i%2BIzsKu4Imav9%2FJ%2BReqRac%3D&reserved=0

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.runrev.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fuse-livecode&data=05%7C01%7Cbleiler%40buffalo.edu%7C53ef9ca6c3554f11c41d08dbc9114fc7%7C96464a8af8ed40b199e25f6b50a20250%7C0%7C0%7C638324848455267470%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=0hFpHvx2CewFhE3zfgsyFM%2BFh4d7T%2FJz%2Fh3Jnj8gpns%3D&reserved=0


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Oct  9 20:27:30 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2023 19:27:30 -0500
Subject: Can't codesign Mac app
In-Reply-To: <efabbbb6-d81d-84a3-6e46-e3201dc2520b@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <7d213e86-a1bd-be2a-e809-27c563860bc8@hyperactivesw.com>
 <efabbbb6-d81d-84a3-6e46-e3201dc2520b@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <ecd8dc74-b08b-85cb-7183-d1a0d69dd41b@hyperactivesw.com>

On 10/9/23 5:13 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
> On 10/9/23 4:46 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
>> I'm using Matthias' mrSignNotarizeHelper V3.1 with xCode 13.2.1 on Mac OS 12.6.9 (Monterey) 
>> but get a script error. The same thing happens in both LC 9.6.9 and 9.6.10 dp 6.
>>
>> So then I tried notarizationHelper V4 but keep getting "no identity found" errors. I've tried 
>> all the suggestions in the lesson. This is pretty critical for me right now, does anyone know 
>> what's wrong? It was last signed successfully in May of this year.
>>
>> I need to codesign today...
>>
> 
> Addendum: there were breakpoints in the script, which I thought at first were errors, in 
> version 3.1. I removed them, and while it did not break into the debugger any more I am still 
> getting "no identity found."
> 
> I have tried with and without a space after "Developer ID Application:". All the other fields 
> in settings are as they were before when it worked. All certificates and the app password are 
> correct, valid, and available in KeyChain Access.
> 

Thanks to both Timothy and Paul for suggestions. My client was able to sign/notarize on her 
machine using Matthias' tool. She's on Sonoma. We see the notarization and stapling logs and 
the result was successful. But the app will not open on the three Macs we tested it on (though 
it does open on my Montery machine; it fails on Ventura and Sonoma.) I built with both LC 
9.6.10 and LC 10 dp 6 and while both appeared to be notarized (on her machine) a terminal 
command says it isn't:

    spctl -a -t exec -vvv /Path/To/Notarised.app:: rejected

We are at a loss. @Mattias: do we need an updated mrSignNotarizeHelper? Or is something else wrong?

Our next step is to try running the correct terminal commands manually. Does anyone know where 
I can find those? I think I read that the lesson needs revision?



-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Oct  9 20:56:24 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2023 19:56:24 -0500
Subject: Can't codesign Mac app
In-Reply-To: <66D2DA12-EA38-4E3C-BC5C-222C13BFE087@mac.com>
References: <7d213e86-a1bd-be2a-e809-27c563860bc8@hyperactivesw.com>
 <efabbbb6-d81d-84a3-6e46-e3201dc2520b@hyperactivesw.com>
 <ecd8dc74-b08b-85cb-7183-d1a0d69dd41b@hyperactivesw.com>
 <66D2DA12-EA38-4E3C-BC5C-222C13BFE087@mac.com>
Message-ID: <1fc4a6c7-0c60-cc70-a14b-8bd9a4ff48ff@hyperactivesw.com>

On 10/9/23 7:33 PM, Mark Clark wrote:
> Is Gatekeeper an issue? Using dynamic libs? If your end user/tester could open console and send 
> you the errors it might help point you in the right direction.
> 
> 
> 
> Successfully notarized app rejecte… | Apple Developer Forums 
> <https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/128038>
> developer.apple.com <https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/128038>
> 	favicon.ico <https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/128038>
> 
> <https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/128038>

I think that may be the problem, we're fairly convinced right now that Gatekeeper is the issue. 
There is a single dylib in the app: revsecurity.dylib. I'm not sure what to do about it though.

I'll try to see what console says. But do we need revsecurity? Can I omit it somehow and see 
how that goes?

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From bleiler at buffalo.edu  Mon Oct  9 21:10:08 2023
From: bleiler at buffalo.edu (Timothy Bleiler)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 01:10:08 +0000
Subject: Can't codesign Mac app
In-Reply-To: <ecd8dc74-b08b-85cb-7183-d1a0d69dd41b@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <7d213e86-a1bd-be2a-e809-27c563860bc8@hyperactivesw.com>
 <efabbbb6-d81d-84a3-6e46-e3201dc2520b@hyperactivesw.com>
 <ecd8dc74-b08b-85cb-7183-d1a0d69dd41b@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <849EDABE-ADF0-4A24-81F9-B87E1C1CE139@buffalo.edu>

I think this is the most recent lesson listing the terminal commands for using NotaryTool instead of altool.
These worked when I was using the last version of Ventura and Xcode 14.3.1.  I haven’t tried Sonoma.

<https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1653720-code-signing-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore-with-xcode-13-and-up>
Code signing and notarizing your LC standalone for distribution outside the Mac Appstore with Xcode 13 and up | How To - Step-By-Step Guides To Tasks In LiveCode | LiveCode Lessons<https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1653720-code-signing-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore-with-xcode-13-and-up>
lessons.livecode.com<https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1653720-code-signing-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore-with-xcode-13-and-up>
[X]<https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1653720-code-signing-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore-with-xcode-13-and-up>


On Oct 9, 2023, at 8:27 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

On 10/9/23 5:13 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
On 10/9/23 4:46 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
I'm using Matthias' mrSignNotarizeHelper V3.1 with xCode 13.2.1 on Mac OS 12.6.9 (Monterey) but get a script error. The same thing happens in both LC 9.6.9 and 9.6.10 dp 6.

So then I tried notarizationHelper V4 but keep getting "no identity found" errors. I've tried all the suggestions in the lesson. This is pretty critical for me right now, does anyone know what's wrong? It was last signed successfully in May of this year.

I need to codesign today...

Addendum: there were breakpoints in the script, which I thought at first were errors, in version 3.1. I removed them, and while it did not break into the debugger any more I am still getting "no identity found."
I have tried with and without a space after "Developer ID Application:". All the other fields in settings are as they were before when it worked. All certificates and the app password are correct, valid, and available in KeyChain Access.

Thanks to both Timothy and Paul for suggestions. My client was able to sign/notarize on her machine using Matthias' tool. She's on Sonoma. We see the notarization and stapling logs and the result was successful. But the app will not open on the three Macs we tested it on (though it does open on my Montery machine; it fails on Ventura and Sonoma.) I built with both LC 9.6.10 and LC 10 dp 6 and while both appeared to be notarized (on her machine) a terminal command says it isn't:

  spctl -a -t exec -vvv /Path/To/Notarised.app:: rejected

We are at a loss. @Mattias: do we need an updated mrSignNotarizeHelper? Or is something else wrong?

Our next step is to try running the correct terminal commands manually. Does anyone know where I can find those? I think I read that the lesson needs revision?



--
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hyperactivesw.com%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cbleiler%40buffalo.edu%7C0155f2f48eef41eaec7008dbc927cbad%7C96464a8af8ed40b199e25f6b50a20250%7C0%7C0%7C638324945008580783%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=xI5%2F18BYMNicJ8%2FTR%2B8Ul%2FP2QYWQAKm%2Bh%2FnsJlwp9uY%3D&reserved=0


_______________________________________________
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use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.runrev.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fuse-livecode&data=05%7C01%7Cbleiler%40buffalo.edu%7C0155f2f48eef41eaec7008dbc927cbad%7C96464a8af8ed40b199e25f6b50a20250%7C0%7C0%7C638324945008580783%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=5ywkZ%2BNNHrYzolj7D6IvfP0ievhugaZCohAe634geJU%3D&reserved=0


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Oct  9 21:28:07 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2023 20:28:07 -0500
Subject: Can't codesign Mac app
In-Reply-To: <849EDABE-ADF0-4A24-81F9-B87E1C1CE139@buffalo.edu>
References: <7d213e86-a1bd-be2a-e809-27c563860bc8@hyperactivesw.com>
 <efabbbb6-d81d-84a3-6e46-e3201dc2520b@hyperactivesw.com>
 <ecd8dc74-b08b-85cb-7183-d1a0d69dd41b@hyperactivesw.com>
 <849EDABE-ADF0-4A24-81F9-B87E1C1CE139@buffalo.edu>
Message-ID: <4aa5f3d5-4119-86b7-318f-0e8fb8b0d6cd@hyperactivesw.com>

Thank you, I'll try that. Meanwhile, I ran this on a supposedly notarized/signed app:

   spctl --assess --raw --verbose <appPath>

which was rejected. Does his mean anything to anyone:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<!DOCTYPE plist PUBLIC "-//Apple//DTD PLIST 1.0//EN" 
"http://www.apple.com/DTDs/PropertyList-1.0.dtd">
<plist version="1.0">
<dict>
	<key>assessment:authority</key>
	<dict>
		<key>assessment:authority:flags</key>
		<integer>0</integer>
	</dict>
	<key>assessment:remote</key>
	<true/>
	<key>assessment:verdict</key>
	<false/>
</dict>
</plist>


On 10/9/23 8:10 PM, Timothy Bleiler via use-livecode wrote:
> I think this is the most recent lesson listing the terminal commands for using NotaryTool instead of altool.
> These worked when I was using the last version of Ventura and Xcode 14.3.1.  I haven’t tried Sonoma.
> 
> <https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1653720-code-signing-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore-with-xcode-13-and-up>
> Code signing and notarizing your LC standalone for distribution outside the Mac Appstore with Xcode 13 and up | How To - Step-By-Step Guides To Tasks In LiveCode | LiveCode Lessons<https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1653720-code-signing-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore-with-xcode-13-and-up>
> lessons.livecode.com<https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1653720-code-signing-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore-with-xcode-13-and-up>
> [X]<https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1653720-code-signing-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore-with-xcode-13-and-up>

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From merakosp at gmail.com  Tue Oct 10 02:07:27 2023
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 09:07:27 +0300
Subject: Can't codesign Mac app
In-Reply-To: <4aa5f3d5-4119-86b7-318f-0e8fb8b0d6cd@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <7d213e86-a1bd-be2a-e809-27c563860bc8@hyperactivesw.com>
 <efabbbb6-d81d-84a3-6e46-e3201dc2520b@hyperactivesw.com>
 <ecd8dc74-b08b-85cb-7183-d1a0d69dd41b@hyperactivesw.com>
 <849EDABE-ADF0-4A24-81F9-B87E1C1CE139@buffalo.edu>
 <4aa5f3d5-4119-86b7-318f-0e8fb8b0d6cd@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq9PV3qWeT41kfY9PEv_ewniO5zT=xL+xu4saEfqmerQnQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Jacque,

Have you included any entitlements when codesigning the app?

I suggest including all of these:

https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1293515-entitlements-for-signed-and-notarized-apps

There is an option to do that in the settings (iirc) in Matthias'
notarization tool.

Kind regards,
Panos

On Tue, 10 Oct 2023, 04:29 J. Landman Gay via use-livecode, <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Thank you, I'll try that. Meanwhile, I ran this on a supposedly
> notarized/signed app:
>
>    spctl --assess --raw --verbose <appPath>
>
> which was rejected. Does his mean anything to anyone:
>
> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
> <!DOCTYPE plist PUBLIC "-//Apple//DTD PLIST 1.0//EN"
> "http://www.apple.com/DTDs/PropertyList-1.0.dtd">
> <plist version="1.0">
> <dict>
>         <key>assessment:authority</key>
>         <dict>
>                 <key>assessment:authority:flags</key>
>                 <integer>0</integer>
>         </dict>
>         <key>assessment:remote</key>
>         <true/>
>         <key>assessment:verdict</key>
>         <false/>
> </dict>
> </plist>
>
>
> On 10/9/23 8:10 PM, Timothy Bleiler via use-livecode wrote:
> > I think this is the most recent lesson listing the terminal commands for
> using NotaryTool instead of altool.
> > These worked when I was using the last version of Ventura and Xcode
> 14.3.1.  I haven’t tried Sonoma.
> >
> > <
> https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1653720-code-signing-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore-with-xcode-13-and-up
> >
> > Code signing and notarizing your LC standalone for distribution outside
> the Mac Appstore with Xcode 13 and up | How To - Step-By-Step Guides To
> Tasks In LiveCode | LiveCode Lessons<
> https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1653720-code-signing-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore-with-xcode-13-and-up
> >
> > lessons.livecode.com<
> https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1653720-code-signing-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore-with-xcode-13-and-up
> >
> > [X]<
> https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1653720-code-signing-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore-with-xcode-13-and-up
> >
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Tue Oct 10 03:19:49 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 09:19:49 +0200
Subject: Can't codesign Mac app
In-Reply-To: <4aa5f3d5-4119-86b7-318f-0e8fb8b0d6cd@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <7d213e86-a1bd-be2a-e809-27c563860bc8@hyperactivesw.com>
 <efabbbb6-d81d-84a3-6e46-e3201dc2520b@hyperactivesw.com>
 <ecd8dc74-b08b-85cb-7183-d1a0d69dd41b@hyperactivesw.com>
 <849EDABE-ADF0-4A24-81F9-B87E1C1CE139@buffalo.edu>
 <4aa5f3d5-4119-86b7-318f-0e8fb8b0d6cd@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <FA243C78-0627-487F-8A99-2C43CAED530B@m-r-d.de>

Hello Jacque,

didn't you get the reason back why the app is rejected when you run 'spctl --assess --raw --verbose <appPath>' ?

I've tested here now with a simple LC app which opens an https url. The https call makes sure, that revsecurity is included in the app bundle.
I've code signed and notarized that standalone with my Helper stack V4 on Ventura and tested it then on macOS Sonoma.
The app can be executed on Sonoma and    spctl --assess --raw --verbose <appPath>
returns the following on Sonoma.

/Users/matthias/Downloads/jacque/Untitled 1/Untitled 1.app: accepted
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<!DOCTYPE plist PUBLIC "-//Apple//DTD PLIST 1.0//EN" "http://www.apple.com/DTDs/PropertyList-1.0.dtd">
<plist version="1.0">
<dict>
	<key>assessment:authority</key>
	<dict>
		<key>assessment:authority:flags</key>
		<integer>2</integer>
		<key>assessment:authority:row</key>
		<integer>6</integer>
		<key>assessment:authority:source</key>
		<string>Developer ID</string>
	</dict>
	<key>assessment:remote</key>
	<true/>
	<key>assessment:verdict</key>
	<true/>
</dict>

I am not sure why your app i rejected. If you want to, i could test your app with spctl.... here on Sonoma.

Did you by any chance add additonal data to the standalone after it was built?

Or are you using any additional code which might be not in the right place in the bundle?
There is an archive topic about this here
https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/114943

I am really sorry that i am of no real help.

Regards

Matthias




> Am 10.10.2023 um 03:28 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Thank you, I'll try that. Meanwhile, I ran this on a supposedly notarized/signed app:
> 
>  spctl --assess --raw --verbose <appPath>
> 
> which was rejected. Does his mean anything to anyone:
> 
> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
> <!DOCTYPE plist PUBLIC "-//Apple//DTD PLIST 1.0//EN" "http://www.apple.com/DTDs/PropertyList-1.0.dtd">
> <plist version="1.0">
> <dict>
> 	<key>assessment:authority</key>
> 	<dict>
> 		<key>assessment:authority:flags</key>
> 		<integer>0</integer>
> 	</dict>
> 	<key>assessment:remote</key>
> 	<true/>
> 	<key>assessment:verdict</key>
> 	<false/>
> </dict>
> </plist>
> 
> 
> On 10/9/23 8:10 PM, Timothy Bleiler via use-livecode wrote:
>> I think this is the most recent lesson listing the terminal commands for using NotaryTool instead of altool.
>> These worked when I was using the last version of Ventura and Xcode 14.3.1.  I haven’t tried Sonoma.
>> <https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1653720-code-signing-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore-with-xcode-13-and-up>
>> Code signing and notarizing your LC standalone for distribution outside the Mac Appstore with Xcode 13 and up | How To - Step-By-Step Guides To Tasks In LiveCode | LiveCode Lessons<https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1653720-code-signing-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore-with-xcode-13-and-up>
>> lessons.livecode.com<https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1653720-code-signing-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore-with-xcode-13-and-up>
>> [X]<https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1653720-code-signing-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore-with-xcode-13-and-up>
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From paul at researchware.com  Tue Oct 10 06:39:28 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 06:39:28 -0400
Subject: Window code signing certificate source recommendations
Message-ID: <bfd548c9-22c9-bae3-d178-5bc3cfc49553@researchware.com>

To any with a recommendation:

I have been getting my Windows Code Signing Certificates from Comodo. I 
have been able to get certs in file formats like .pfx or .p12 that 
allows me to code sign using a single command line with the password as 
part of the command. This lets me script code signing as part of the "on 
standaloneSaved" message using the "shell()" function, so the code 
signing is part of saving the Standalone.

My current Windows cert expires in November, so I click the renew link 
and renewed. The new Cert came on a "USB token" - a small USB memory 
stick that is specially encoded. To sign, I HAVE to use  a desktop GUI 
app called SafeNet Authentication Client Tools. After a bunch of back 
and forth with Sertgo - Comodo's fullfillment branch - I got the 
following message:

-----------------

We apologize for the delayed response and any inconvenience it may have 
caused. We understand that you need a Code Signing certificate in PFX 
format to automate the signing process. As per the CA/B forum's new 
regulation, the private key should be generated, stored, and used on a 
suitable FIPS-compliant hardware token. This change from the CA/B Forum 
aims to improve security and help reduce the risk of compromise.

The Code Signing token is a hardware device with a certificate/key 
inbuilt and they cannot create/export PFX files. Since the private key 
is stored on the hardware token, for security it cannot be copied or 
exported. The concept of the token-based code signing certificate is to 
plug the USB into the system where you want to sign the software. We 
appreciate your understanding in this matter.

-----------------

So, apparently Comodo/Sertgo does NOT issue ANY cert that can be used in 
a sign command line PER the CA/B Forums (whatever they are).


Does anyone know if this is an industry wide change? Or can anyone 
recommend a Window Code Signing Certificate provider that can provide a 
cert in a format that support a command line signing, such as:

"C:\Program Files (x86)\Windows Kits\10\App Certification 
Kit\signtool.exe" sign /fd certHash /debug /f 
"C:\Users\Paul\Desktop\Code Signing\RWCodeSigningCert4.pfx" /t 
http://timestamp.comodoca.com/authenticode /v /p <PASSWORD> 
"<PATH_TO_STANDALONE>"


I really do not want to return to have to manually signing standalones!



From brian at milby7.com  Tue Oct 10 08:38:42 2023
From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 08:38:42 -0400
Subject: Window code signing certificate source recommendations
In-Reply-To: <bfd548c9-22c9-bae3-d178-5bc3cfc49553@researchware.com>
References: <bfd548c9-22c9-bae3-d178-5bc3cfc49553@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <43513E10-F2D5-4C81-8EAA-BA41F78B0FC7@milby7.com>

While not directly applicable, you may be able script it similar to using a CAC.

DOD uses Smart Cards for authentication and you can have command line tools use the card for authentication (runas /smartcard program).  What happens is that you get a pop up from the system to choose cert and enter PIN.  A similar process may be possible.

Brian Milby
brian at milby7.com

> On Oct 10, 2023, at 6:40 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> To any with a recommendation:
> 
> I have been getting my Windows Code Signing Certificates from Comodo. I have been able to get certs in file formats like .pfx or .p12 that allows me to code sign using a single command line with the password as part of the command. This lets me script code signing as part of the "on standaloneSaved" message using the "shell()" function, so the code signing is part of saving the Standalone.
> 
> My current Windows cert expires in November, so I click the renew link and renewed. The new Cert came on a "USB token" - a small USB memory stick that is specially encoded. To sign, I HAVE to use  a desktop GUI app called SafeNet Authentication Client Tools. After a bunch of back and forth with Sertgo - Comodo's fullfillment branch - I got the following message:
> 
> -----------------
> 
> We apologize for the delayed response and any inconvenience it may have caused. We understand that you need a Code Signing certificate in PFX format to automate the signing process. As per the CA/B forum's new regulation, the private key should be generated, stored, and used on a suitable FIPS-compliant hardware token. This change from the CA/B Forum aims to improve security and help reduce the risk of compromise.
> 
> The Code Signing token is a hardware device with a certificate/key inbuilt and they cannot create/export PFX files. Since the private key is stored on the hardware token, for security it cannot be copied or exported. The concept of the token-based code signing certificate is to plug the USB into the system where you want to sign the software. We appreciate your understanding in this matter.
> 
> -----------------
> 
> So, apparently Comodo/Sertgo does NOT issue ANY cert that can be used in a sign command line PER the CA/B Forums (whatever they are).
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if this is an industry wide change? Or can anyone recommend a Window Code Signing Certificate provider that can provide a cert in a format that support a command line signing, such as:
> 
> "C:\Program Files (x86)\Windows Kits\10\App Certification Kit\signtool.exe" sign /fd certHash /debug /f "C:\Users\Paul\Desktop\Code Signing\RWCodeSigningCert4.pfx" /t http://timestamp.comodoca.com/authenticode /v /p <PASSWORD> "<PATH_TO_STANDALONE>"
> 
> 
> I really do not want to return to have to manually signing standalones!
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Tue Oct 10 08:53:37 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 14:53:37 +0200
Subject: Window code signing certificate source recommendations
In-Reply-To: <bfd548c9-22c9-bae3-d178-5bc3cfc49553@researchware.com>
References: <bfd548c9-22c9-bae3-d178-5bc3cfc49553@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <ECCDEE61-0CDF-4411-B0B5-65E862D2E49F@m-r-d.de>

Hello Paul,

unfortunately this is the "new" standard. Since 1st June 2023 private keys has to be stored on a Token.
https://www.sslpoint.com/new-private-key-storage-requirement-for-standard-code-signing-certificates/

There is no way anymore to export a certificate for example to .pfx.
And much more of a pain, it is not possible anymore to code sign Windows app under macOS or at least i was not able to so so far.

I have a "cloud" certificate from Certum which i purchased from SSL Point (https://www.sslpoint.com <https://www.sslpoint.com/>)

With this type of certificate the private key is not stored on a USB token. This "cloud" certifcate  works similar to a usb token. I also have to install some software. This software allow me to login to the "cloud" and after successful login i can use that certificate
with Microsoft's signtool and JARsigner.
https://www.files.certum.eu/documents/manual_en/Code-Signing-signing-the-code-using-tools-like-Singtool-and-Jarsigner_v2.3.pdf

So to automate your signing, you just have to keep a Windows PC running and make sure that you are logged in to the "Cloud". As long as the software is logged in you have access to the certificate.
I don't know if this is also the case with the USB Token. Could not test it, because i do not have a usb token. ;)


Regards,
Matthias




> Am 10.10.2023 um 12:39 schrieb Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> To any with a recommendation:
> 
> I have been getting my Windows Code Signing Certificates from Comodo. I have been able to get certs in file formats like .pfx or .p12 that allows me to code sign using a single command line with the password as part of the command. This lets me script code signing as part of the "on standaloneSaved" message using the "shell()" function, so the code signing is part of saving the Standalone.
> 
> My current Windows cert expires in November, so I click the renew link and renewed. The new Cert came on a "USB token" - a small USB memory stick that is specially encoded. To sign, I HAVE to use  a desktop GUI app called SafeNet Authentication Client Tools. After a bunch of back and forth with Sertgo - Comodo's fullfillment branch - I got the following message:
> 
> -----------------
> 
> We apologize for the delayed response and any inconvenience it may have caused. We understand that you need a Code Signing certificate in PFX format to automate the signing process. As per the CA/B forum's new regulation, the private key should be generated, stored, and used on a suitable FIPS-compliant hardware token. This change from the CA/B Forum aims to improve security and help reduce the risk of compromise.
> 
> The Code Signing token is a hardware device with a certificate/key inbuilt and they cannot create/export PFX files. Since the private key is stored on the hardware token, for security it cannot be copied or exported. The concept of the token-based code signing certificate is to plug the USB into the system where you want to sign the software. We appreciate your understanding in this matter.
> 
> -----------------
> 
> So, apparently Comodo/Sertgo does NOT issue ANY cert that can be used in a sign command line PER the CA/B Forums (whatever they are).
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if this is an industry wide change? Or can anyone recommend a Window Code Signing Certificate provider that can provide a cert in a format that support a command line signing, such as:
> 
> "C:\Program Files (x86)\Windows Kits\10\App Certification Kit\signtool.exe" sign /fd certHash /debug /f "C:\Users\Paul\Desktop\Code Signing\RWCodeSigningCert4.pfx" /t http://timestamp.comodoca.com/authenticode /v /p <PASSWORD> "<PATH_TO_STANDALONE>"
> 
> 
> I really do not want to return to have to manually signing standalones!
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From paul at researchware.com  Tue Oct 10 08:59:48 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 08:59:48 -0400
Subject: Window code signing certificate source recommendations
In-Reply-To: <43513E10-F2D5-4C81-8EAA-BA41F78B0FC7@milby7.com>
References: <bfd548c9-22c9-bae3-d178-5bc3cfc49553@researchware.com>
 <43513E10-F2D5-4C81-8EAA-BA41F78B0FC7@milby7.com>
Message-ID: <1b33544d-7c1d-6c07-f6d7-6f46ce2cd77c@researchware.com>

On 10/10/2023 8:38 AM, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote:
> While not directly applicable, you may be able script it similar to using a CAC.
>
> DOD uses Smart Cards for authentication and you can have command line tools use the card for authentication (runas /smartcard program).  What happens is that you get a pop up from the system to choose cert and enter PIN.  A similar process may be possible.
>
> Brian Milby
> brian at milby7.com
>

Thanks Brian,

The USB token from Comodo/Sertigo is effectively the same process. You 
still use signtool in a command line to sign, but then the Safenet 
Authentication Client pops up a dialog to have you manually enter the 
USB token password/PIN to grant access to the cert.

This is a change from the previous process that required no manual 
intervention. However, perhaps it is an industry wide change and 
something I will just have to live with.Sigh.



From paul at researchware.com  Tue Oct 10 09:05:17 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 09:05:17 -0400
Subject: Window code signing certificate source recommendations
In-Reply-To: <ECCDEE61-0CDF-4411-B0B5-65E862D2E49F@m-r-d.de>
References: <bfd548c9-22c9-bae3-d178-5bc3cfc49553@researchware.com>
 <ECCDEE61-0CDF-4411-B0B5-65E862D2E49F@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <0d0feb9a-c216-c3cb-0a7a-9972fb723048@researchware.com>

On 10/10/2023 8:53 AM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote:
> Hello Paul,
>
> unfortunately this is the "new" standard. Since 1st June 2023 private keys has to be stored on a Token.
> https://www.sslpoint.com/new-private-key-storage-requirement-for-standard-code-signing-certificates/
>
> There is no way anymore to export a certificate for example to .pfx.
> And much more of a pain, it is not possible anymore to code sign Windows app under macOS or at least i was not able to so so far.
>
> I have a "cloud" certificate from Certum which i purchased from SSL Point (https://www.sslpoint.com <https://www.sslpoint.com/>)
>
> With this type of certificate the private key is not stored on a USB token. This "cloud" certifcate  works similar to a usb token. I also have to install some software. This software allow me to login to the "cloud" and after successful login i can use that certificate
> with Microsoft's signtool and JARsigner.
> https://www.files.certum.eu/documents/manual_en/Code-Signing-signing-the-code-using-tools-like-Singtool-and-Jarsigner_v2.3.pdf
>
> So to automate your signing, you just have to keep a Windows PC running and make sure that you are logged in to the "Cloud". As long as the software is logged in you have access to the certificate.
> I don't know if this is also the case with the USB Token. Could not test it, because i do not have a usb token. ;)
>
>
> Regards,
> Matthias

First, thank you for the very informative reply (with links!)

Second, this "new" standard STINKS!

The cloud cert sound interesting, but we recently renewed out macOS cert 
and now we've just renewed our Windows cert, so, short of trying to get 
money back from Comodo and switching to the "cloud", I guess I am stuck 
with the "new" crappy standard.

I do not see how large software companies that automate build, signing, 
and even QA testing can accept this change. But they must of the 
suppliers of certs would not go this route for loss of income.



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Tue Oct 10 09:56:28 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 15:56:28 +0200
Subject: Window code signing certificate source recommendations
In-Reply-To: <0d0feb9a-c216-c3cb-0a7a-9972fb723048@researchware.com>
References: <bfd548c9-22c9-bae3-d178-5bc3cfc49553@researchware.com>
 <ECCDEE61-0CDF-4411-B0B5-65E862D2E49F@m-r-d.de>
 <0d0feb9a-c216-c3cb-0a7a-9972fb723048@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <8A49D398-80A5-4C6F-BC80-3852A5614588@m-r-d.de>

Paul,

just googled a little bit...

If you have a safenet USB Token, than there seems to be a way to disable the password pop up.

https://www.finalbuilder.com/resources/blogs/code-signing-with-usb-tokens

> Am 10.10.2023 um 15:05 schrieb Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> On 10/10/2023 8:53 AM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hello Paul,
>> 
>> unfortunately this is the "new" standard. Since 1st June 2023 private keys has to be stored on a Token.
>> https://www.sslpoint.com/new-private-key-storage-requirement-for-standard-code-signing-certificates/
>> 
>> There is no way anymore to export a certificate for example to .pfx.
>> And much more of a pain, it is not possible anymore to code sign Windows app under macOS or at least i was not able to so so far.
>> 
>> I have a "cloud" certificate from Certum which i purchased from SSL Point (https://www.sslpoint.com <https://www.sslpoint.com/>)
>> 
>> With this type of certificate the private key is not stored on a USB token. This "cloud" certifcate  works similar to a usb token. I also have to install some software. This software allow me to login to the "cloud" and after successful login i can use that certificate
>> with Microsoft's signtool and JARsigner.
>> https://www.files.certum.eu/documents/manual_en/Code-Signing-signing-the-code-using-tools-like-Singtool-and-Jarsigner_v2.3.pdf
>> 
>> So to automate your signing, you just have to keep a Windows PC running and make sure that you are logged in to the "Cloud". As long as the software is logged in you have access to the certificate.
>> I don't know if this is also the case with the USB Token. Could not test it, because i do not have a usb token. ;)
>> 
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Matthias
> 
> First, thank you for the very informative reply (with links!)
> 
> Second, this "new" standard STINKS!
> 
> The cloud cert sound interesting, but we recently renewed out macOS cert and now we've just renewed our Windows cert, so, short of trying to get money back from Comodo and switching to the "cloud", I guess I am stuck with the "new" crappy standard.
> 
> I do not see how large software companies that automate build, signing, and even QA testing can accept this change. But they must of the suppliers of certs would not go this route for loss of income.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From paul at researchware.com  Tue Oct 10 11:43:29 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 11:43:29 -0400
Subject: Another (macOS) Code signing guidance question...
Message-ID: <478a7f56-e24e-fb8b-a29e-872572ff150a@researchware.com>

I am looking at https://developer.apple.com/support/xcode

To meet Apple's Nov 1 deadline of switch from the old Notarization tool 
(which I current use on Mojave) to the new one, I need to get set up on 
macOS 14 Sonoma.

To me, from the Apple page, it look like I need xcode 15 (deployment 
targets of macOS 10.13-14) BUT I am concerned that the Livecode lesson 
by Matthias and his mrSignNotarizeHelper tool recommend Xcode 13 or 14 
(I don't see Xcode 15 mentioned). I may have (or probably did) miss 
something!

The Apple Developer page suggest that Xcode 14.3.1 has a minim OS 
requirement of macOS Ventura 13 which suggest it can run on macOS 14 Sonoma?

I only have a single macBook Air with Sonoma available to get sup up for 
the new notarization method. I really don't want to try to downgrade the 
macOS (I don't even know how to do that).




From martyknappster at gmail.com  Tue Oct 10 11:57:38 2023
From: martyknappster at gmail.com (Marty Knapp)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 08:57:38 -0700
Subject: Another (macOS) Code signing guidance question...
In-Reply-To: <478a7f56-e24e-fb8b-a29e-872572ff150a@researchware.com>
References: <478a7f56-e24e-fb8b-a29e-872572ff150a@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <37AB0D23-F3FA-4886-9020-8BA284122BD6@gmail.com>

I’ve been using AppWrapper for a few years and just deployed an upgrade for Sonoma compatibility. I don’t use the app store - just sell from my own web site.

It’s a paid app but has a free trial:
https://ohanaware.com/appwrapper/


---
Marty Knapp

> On Oct 10, 2023, at 8:43 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I am looking at https://developer.apple.com/support/xcode
> 
> To meet Apple's Nov 1 deadline of switch from the old Notarization tool (which I current use on Mojave) to the new one, I need to get set up on macOS 14 Sonoma.
> 
> To me, from the Apple page, it look like I need xcode 15 (deployment targets of macOS 10.13-14) BUT I am concerned that the Livecode lesson by Matthias and his mrSignNotarizeHelper tool recommend Xcode 13 or 14 (I don't see Xcode 15 mentioned). I may have (or probably did) miss something!
> 
> The Apple Developer page suggest that Xcode 14.3.1 has a minim OS requirement of macOS Ventura 13 which suggest it can run on macOS 14 Sonoma?
> 
> I only have a single macBook Air with Sonoma available to get sup up for the new notarization method. I really don't want to try to downgrade the macOS (I don't even know how to do that).
> 



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Tue Oct 10 11:57:59 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 15:57:59 +0000
Subject: Another (macOS) Code signing guidance question...
In-Reply-To: <478a7f56-e24e-fb8b-a29e-872572ff150a@researchware.com>
References: <478a7f56-e24e-fb8b-a29e-872572ff150a@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <93EF02D3-6741-4F25-B2E0-BE4337540055@iotecdigital.com>

There’s this: 
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204904


I’m fairly certain that it will install the most recent version of MacOS however. To install the original MacOS, there’s this:
https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/erase-and-reinstall-macos-mh27903/mac

Bob S


> On Oct 10, 2023, at 8:43 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I only have a single macBook Air with Sonoma available to get sup up for the new notarization method. I really don't want to try to downgrade the macOS (I don't even know how to do that).


From paul at researchware.com  Tue Oct 10 12:02:53 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 12:02:53 -0400
Subject: Another (macOS) Code signing guidance question...
In-Reply-To: <478a7f56-e24e-fb8b-a29e-872572ff150a@researchware.com>
References: <478a7f56-e24e-fb8b-a29e-872572ff150a@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <28948322-89d2-559a-1e08-4a9b7fa555a3@researchware.com>

On 10/10/2023 11:43 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
> I am looking at https://developer.apple.com/support/xcode
>
> To meet Apple's Nov 1 deadline of switch from the old Notarization 
> tool (which I current use on Mojave) to the new one, I need to get set 
> up on macOS 14 Sonoma.
>
> To me, from the Apple page, it look like I need xcode 15 (deployment 
> targets of macOS 10.13-14) BUT I am concerned that the Livecode lesson 
> by Matthias and his mrSignNotarizeHelper tool recommend Xcode 13 or 14 
> (I don't see Xcode 15 mentioned). I may have (or probably did) miss 
> something!
>
> The Apple Developer page suggest that Xcode 14.3.1 has a minim OS 
> requirement of macOS Ventura 13 which suggest it can run on macOS 14 
> Sonoma?
>
> I only have a single macBook Air with Sonoma available to get sup up 
> for the new notarization method. I really don't want to try to 
> downgrade the macOS (I don't even know how to do that).
>

Ok, I may have answered one of my questions. I downloaded the XCode 
14.3.1 Command Line Tools from https://developer.apple.com/download/all/ 
and tried to install them on Sonoma and the installer will not let me 
stating the "OS is too new". I guess Xcode 15 is the minimum for Sonoma.

Now I will try the "Command Line Tools for Xcode 15" from the same Apple 
download page.



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Oct 10 12:36:05 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 11:36:05 -0500
Subject: Another (macOS) Code signing guidance question...
In-Reply-To: <478a7f56-e24e-fb8b-a29e-872572ff150a@researchware.com>
References: <478a7f56-e24e-fb8b-a29e-872572ff150a@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <18b1a721108.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

I got that far at least. I couldn't notarize on Monterey but my client on 
Sonoma had no problem using mrSignNotarizeHelper on Sonoma with Xcode 15. 
My issues happened after that. So I think you're safe using the tool on Sonoma.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On October 10, 2023 10:45:37 AM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I am looking at https://developer.apple.com/support/xcode
>
> To meet Apple's Nov 1 deadline of switch from the old Notarization tool
> (which I current use on Mojave) to the new one, I need to get set up on
> macOS 14 Sonoma.
>
> To me, from the Apple page, it look like I need xcode 15 (deployment
> targets of macOS 10.13-14) BUT I am concerned that the Livecode lesson
> by Matthias and his mrSignNotarizeHelper tool recommend Xcode 13 or 14
> (I don't see Xcode 15 mentioned). I may have (or probably did) miss
> something!
>
> The Apple Developer page suggest that Xcode 14.3.1 has a minim OS
> requirement of macOS Ventura 13 which suggest it can run on macOS 14 Sonoma?
>
> I only have a single macBook Air with Sonoma available to get sup up for
> the new notarization method. I really don't want to try to downgrade the
> macOS (I don't even know how to do that).
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From paul at researchware.com  Tue Oct 10 12:48:19 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 12:48:19 -0400
Subject: Another (macOS) Code signing guidance question...
In-Reply-To: <18b1a721108.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <478a7f56-e24e-fb8b-a29e-872572ff150a@researchware.com>
 <18b1a721108.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <eacf5374-7ef7-4f2b-e4fc-d1e1923e878b@researchware.com>

On 10/10/2023 12:36 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
> I got that far at least. I couldn't notarize on Monterey but my client 
> on Sonoma had no problem using mrSignNotarizeHelper on Sonoma with 
> Xcode 15. My issues happened after that. So I think you're safe using 
> the tool on Sonoma.
>

Thank you for the encouraging information!

Currently, I am struggling with get a signing cert into the keychain on 
the macBook Air with Sonoma. The cert I downloaded and double-click to 
add to the keychain on Mojave, generates an error trying to do the same 
on Sonoma (to bad as it was good until 2026!)

Not sure why it gives an error and would load into the keychain on Sonoma.


From ludovic.thebault at laposte.net  Tue Oct 10 13:14:48 2023
From: ludovic.thebault at laposte.net (Ludovic THEBAULT)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 19:14:48 +0200
Subject: Compiling for iOS : something wrong with Xcode and Sonoma
Message-ID: <CFD1C284-343F-47D3-85D0-73F855901290@laposte.net>

Hello,

Is livecode uptodate is compatible with Sonoma ?
When I try to compile for iOS I get this error :

There was an error while saving the standalone application linking for arm (arm64) failed with 2023-10-10 18:51:36.404 xcodebuild[74950:3301090] Writing error result bundle to
/var/folders/j2/bpc701v12p78vsrq5Ifpdd×00000gn/T/ResultBundle_2023-10-10_18-51-0036.xcresult
xcodebuild: error: SDK "iphoneos 16.2" cannot be located.
xcrun; error: sh -c '/Users/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/us/bin/ xcodebuild -sdk iphoneoslo. -hnd q++ <> devnul tailed with exit code 10384: (null) (errno=No such hle or directory)
xcrun: error: unable to find utility "g++", not a developer tool or in PATH

In the settings of livecode, I’ve selected Xcode 14.2 which doesn’t work on sonoma.
In Xcode 15 i’ve installed 16.2 simulator.
I’ve tried to install commandlinetools for Xcode 14.2 but it was refused.

Any ideas ?

Thanks !

Ludovic


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Oct 10 15:14:03 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 14:14:03 -0500
Subject: Can't codesign Mac app
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq9PV3qWeT41kfY9PEv_ewniO5zT=xL+xu4saEfqmerQnQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7d213e86-a1bd-be2a-e809-27c563860bc8@hyperactivesw.com>
 <efabbbb6-d81d-84a3-6e46-e3201dc2520b@hyperactivesw.com>
 <ecd8dc74-b08b-85cb-7183-d1a0d69dd41b@hyperactivesw.com>
 <849EDABE-ADF0-4A24-81F9-B87E1C1CE139@buffalo.edu>
 <4aa5f3d5-4119-86b7-318f-0e8fb8b0d6cd@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CA+JfEq9PV3qWeT41kfY9PEv_ewniO5zT=xL+xu4saEfqmerQnQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <664a260d-acdf-467b-afa5-411a1c095765@hyperactivesw.com>

On 10/10/23 1:07 AM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote:
> Have you included any entitlements when codesigning the app? I suggest including all of these: 
> https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1293515-entitlements-for-signed-and-notarized-apps There 
> is an option to do that in the settings (iirc) in Matthias' notarization tool.

I hadn't, but we just tried it and it still failed with all entitlements enabled.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Oct 10 15:53:08 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 14:53:08 -0500
Subject: Can't codesign Mac app
In-Reply-To: <FA243C78-0627-487F-8A99-2C43CAED530B@m-r-d.de>
References: <7d213e86-a1bd-be2a-e809-27c563860bc8@hyperactivesw.com>
 <efabbbb6-d81d-84a3-6e46-e3201dc2520b@hyperactivesw.com>
 <ecd8dc74-b08b-85cb-7183-d1a0d69dd41b@hyperactivesw.com>
 <849EDABE-ADF0-4A24-81F9-B87E1C1CE139@buffalo.edu>
 <4aa5f3d5-4119-86b7-318f-0e8fb8b0d6cd@hyperactivesw.com>
 <FA243C78-0627-487F-8A99-2C43CAED530B@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <15b38e23-3ffe-4190-915c-0146d515c177@hyperactivesw.com>

On 10/10/23 2:19 AM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote:
> Hello Jacque,
> 
> didn't you get the reason back why the app is rejected when you run 'spctl --assess --raw --verbose <appPath>' ?

No, all I got was what I posted. It was very short.

> I am not sure why your app i rejected. If you want to, i could test your app with spctl.... here on Sonoma.

I think I'll take you up on that, I'll send you the app in email. Thank you so much!

> Did you by any chance add additonal data to the standalone after it was built? >
> Or are you using any additional code which might be not in the right place in the bundle?
> There is an archive topic about this here
> https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/114943

No, I just used the app the way LC built it. After the first few failures I looked at the app 
contents and it seemed to be okay. That's when I noticed the dylib file.

> I am really sorry that i am of no real help.

You are always a huge help! I'll send you an email.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From dochawk at gmail.com  Tue Oct 10 16:50:38 2023
From: dochawk at gmail.com (doc hawk)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 13:50:38 -0700
Subject: Can't codesign Mac app
In-Reply-To: <7d213e86-a1bd-be2a-e809-27c563860bc8@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <7d213e86-a1bd-be2a-e809-27c563860bc8@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <CANQHZSFeMhTBDBxXF1mMka5AX0K09FDTx_-LGK-YAaAejDfYJw@mail.gmail.com>

jacqui juggled,

So then I tried notarizationHelper V4 but keep getting "no identity found"
errors.


Ah.

An identity crisis!

:)

From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Tue Oct 10 17:04:49 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 23:04:49 +0200
Subject: Another (macOS) Code signing guidance question...
In-Reply-To: <eacf5374-7ef7-4f2b-e4fc-d1e1923e878b@researchware.com>
References: <478a7f56-e24e-fb8b-a29e-872572ff150a@researchware.com>
 <18b1a721108.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <eacf5374-7ef7-4f2b-e4fc-d1e1923e878b@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <0B7574CC-CAFC-45C9-B8ED-A7C253BA9E97@m-r-d.de>

Paul,

you should be able to download and "install" the Apple certificates directly in Xcode.
To do so, open settings in Xcode and select "accounts" icon. There you should see a window which allows you to manage your certificates which also includes to install them.

Matthias


> Am 10.10.2023 um 18:48 schrieb Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> On 10/10/2023 12:36 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
>> I got that far at least. I couldn't notarize on Monterey but my client on Sonoma had no problem using mrSignNotarizeHelper on Sonoma with Xcode 15. My issues happened after that. So I think you're safe using the tool on Sonoma.
>> 
> 
> Thank you for the encouraging information!
> 
> Currently, I am struggling with get a signing cert into the keychain on the macBook Air with Sonoma. The cert I downloaded and double-click to add to the keychain on Mojave, generates an error trying to do the same on Sonoma (to bad as it was good until 2026!)
> 
> Not sure why it gives an error and would load into the keychain on Sonoma.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From paul at researchware.com  Tue Oct 10 17:16:46 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 17:16:46 -0400
Subject: AW: Another (macOS) Code signing guidance question...
In-Reply-To: <478a7f56-e24e-fb8b-a29e-872572ff150a@researchware.com>
References: <478a7f56-e24e-fb8b-a29e-872572ff150a@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <2e9c987b-9bfd-5ecf-aa3a-1104d095f725@researchware.com>

Under macOS 14.0 Sonoma on a M1 macBook Air,  I have set up the Command 
Line Tools for XCode 15.0 and have successfully signed, notarized, and 
stapled a Livecode Standalone using the new Apple notarization command 
that goes into effect on November 1, 2023

Effect 1-NOV-2023, the notarization command changes from "xcrun altool 
..." to "xcrun notarytool ..." and instead of getting an email when 
Notarization is done, the terminal command now waits and tells you when 
the process if "accepted" (i.e. done)

Thanks to Matthias Rebbe's excellent documentation at 
https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1653720-code-signing-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore-with-xcode-13-and-up 
the actual notarization part was easy.

The hardest part was getting the correct Certificates into the Keychain 
on the macBook Air. When code signing I kept getting an "identity not 
found" (or something like that) that meant I didn't have the "right" 
certificate or the certificate installed where it was needed.

I had downloaded the SAME cert that I current use to code sign under 
Mojave from the Apple Developer site to the macBook Ait and double 
clicked it. This initially kept generating an error could that the cert 
could not be used. This was because I had not selected the "Login" 
keychain in the keychain tool. After selecting the Login keychain and 
drag and dropping teh download cert file it installed without error and 
said it was a valid certificate. Still, the command line to code sign 
would not work, reporting "identify not found"


Comparing the Keychain on Mojave to the Keychain on Sonoma, I could see 
2 things (1) The downloaded signing cert was only showing up under the 
"Certificates" tab on Sonoma and under BOTH the "Certificates" tab and 
the "My Certificates" tabs under Mojave and (2) the Mojave keychain had 
2 additional certs installed in both tabs - one an Apple developer cert 
and one with a long string of hex and dashed that i think was a reissued 
Apple Intermediate cert.

I ultimately had to delete the downloaded code signing cert on Sonoma, 
export the SAME developer code signing cert and the 2 other apple ones 
from Mojave, move them to Sonoma, and import them into the Sonoma 
keychain and then code signing work as documented.

I thought I would tell this tale just in case it helps someone else.


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Oct 10 18:07:02 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 17:07:02 -0500
Subject: AW: Another (macOS) Code signing guidance question...
In-Reply-To: <2e9c987b-9bfd-5ecf-aa3a-1104d095f725@researchware.com>
References: <478a7f56-e24e-fb8b-a29e-872572ff150a@researchware.com>
 <2e9c987b-9bfd-5ecf-aa3a-1104d095f725@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <9b176893-d16d-40a0-af73-c0034a7b3989@hyperactivesw.com>

On 10/10/23 4:16 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
> The hardest part was getting the correct Certificates into the Keychain on the macBook Air. 
> When code signing I kept getting an "identity not found" (or something like that) that meant I 
> didn't have the "right" certificate or the certificate installed where it was needed.

Thanks for this. That was the error I was getting too. Apparently both of us have identity 
crises (ref: Doc Hawk. The smartalec.)

Guess I need to dig around in Keychain.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From merakosp at gmail.com  Tue Oct 10 20:23:24 2023
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2023 03:23:24 +0300
Subject: AW: Another (macOS) Code signing guidance question...
In-Reply-To: <9b176893-d16d-40a0-af73-c0034a7b3989@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <478a7f56-e24e-fb8b-a29e-872572ff150a@researchware.com>
 <2e9c987b-9bfd-5ecf-aa3a-1104d095f725@researchware.com>
 <9b176893-d16d-40a0-af73-c0034a7b3989@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq-wBz5MOUH_y_pWGNVs5wdXnksaikNUR_A=teEZz8V5Sw@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all,

Just downloading the certificate from your account in the apple dev
website, and using it in a different machine from the one it was created
will not work (you get identity not found), because you need the private
key as well.

This is why you have to export the certificate from the old machine,
because exporting the certificate exports the private key that is
associated with it as well.

Kind regards,
Panos

On Wed, 11 Oct 2023, 01:08 J. Landman Gay via use-livecode, <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On 10/10/23 4:16 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
> > The hardest part was getting the correct Certificates into the Keychain
> on the macBook Air.
> > When code signing I kept getting an "identity not found" (or something
> like that) that meant I
> > didn't have the "right" certificate or the certificate installed where
> it was needed.
>
> Thanks for this. That was the error I was getting too. Apparently both of
> us have identity
> crises (ref: Doc Hawk. The smartalec.)
>
> Guess I need to dig around in Keychain.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From stephen at barncard.com  Wed Oct 11 03:41:57 2023
From: stephen at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2023 00:41:57 -0700
Subject: Window code signing certificate source recommendations
In-Reply-To: <8A49D398-80A5-4C6F-BC80-3852A5614588@m-r-d.de>
References: <bfd548c9-22c9-bae3-d178-5bc3cfc49553@researchware.com>
 <ECCDEE61-0CDF-4411-B0B5-65E862D2E49F@m-r-d.de>
 <0d0feb9a-c216-c3cb-0a7a-9972fb723048@researchware.com>
 <8A49D398-80A5-4C6F-BC80-3852A5614588@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <CAFmQfH+pTSvsfaM4NbG8CLTPK4qzin1fmNXYqisqG6mp7hy3uQ@mail.gmail.com>

Programming is just not fun any more.
Being creative is now just completely overwhelmed by ... whatever this
is... just to get the thing on the air so people won't hack or steal.
*Security* is a job we need AI to handle, not to replace our own creativity
in the app itself.....
sqb
--
Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA -
mixstream.org


On Tue, Oct 10, 2023 at 6:57 AM matthias rebbe via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Paul,
>
> just googled a little bit...
>
> If you have a safenet USB Token, than there seems to be a way to disable
> the password pop up.
>
> https://www.finalbuilder.com/resources/blogs/code-signing-with-usb-tokens
>
> > Am 10.10.2023 um 15:05 schrieb Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> >
> > On 10/10/2023 8:53 AM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote:
> >> Hello Paul,
> >>
> >> unfortunately this is the "new" standard. Since 1st June 2023 private
> keys has to be stored on a Token.
> >>
> https://www.sslpoint.com/new-private-key-storage-requirement-for-standard-code-signing-certificates/
> >>
> >> There is no way anymore to export a certificate for example to .pfx.
> >> And much more of a pain, it is not possible anymore to code sign
> Windows app under macOS or at least i was not able to so so far.
> >>
> >> I have a "cloud" certificate from Certum which i purchased from SSL
> Point (https://www.sslpoint.com <https://www.sslpoint.com/>)
> >>
> >> With this type of certificate the private key is not stored on a USB
> token. This "cloud" certifcate  works similar to a usb token. I also have
> to install some software. This software allow me to login to the "cloud"
> and after successful login i can use that certificate
> >> with Microsoft's signtool and JARsigner.
> >>
> https://www.files.certum.eu/documents/manual_en/Code-Signing-signing-the-code-using-tools-like-Singtool-and-Jarsigner_v2.3.pdf
> >>
> >> So to automate your signing, you just have to keep a Windows PC running
> and make sure that you are logged in to the "Cloud". As long as the
> software is logged in you have access to the certificate.
> >> I don't know if this is also the case with the USB Token. Could not
> test it, because i do not have a usb token. ;)
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Matthias
> >
> > First, thank you for the very informative reply (with links!)
> >
> > Second, this "new" standard STINKS!
> >
> > The cloud cert sound interesting, but we recently renewed out macOS cert
> and now we've just renewed our Windows cert, so, short of trying to get
> money back from Comodo and switching to the "cloud", I guess I am stuck
> with the "new" crappy standard.
> >
> > I do not see how large software companies that automate build, signing,
> and even QA testing can accept this change. But they must of the suppliers
> of certs would not go this route for loss of income.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From paul at researchware.com  Wed Oct 11 06:26:21 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2023 06:26:21 -0400
Subject: Window code signing certificate source recommendations
In-Reply-To: <8A49D398-80A5-4C6F-BC80-3852A5614588@m-r-d.de>
References: <bfd548c9-22c9-bae3-d178-5bc3cfc49553@researchware.com>
 <ECCDEE61-0CDF-4411-B0B5-65E862D2E49F@m-r-d.de>
 <0d0feb9a-c216-c3cb-0a7a-9972fb723048@researchware.com>
 <8A49D398-80A5-4C6F-BC80-3852A5614588@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <21eff6a2-ab3a-4b27-ef1e-0837e5b56765@researchware.com>

On 10/10/2023 9:56 AM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote:
> Paul,
>
> just googled a little bit...
>
> If you have a safenet USB Token, than there seems to be a way to disable the password pop up.
>
> https://www.finalbuilder.com/resources/blogs/code-signing-with-usb-tokens
>
>

Thank you for this!

We have to get back to doing some development now that we have a new 
Windows Cert and our mac Cert is working with Apple's Nov 1 new 
notarization process, but I'll give this a try when I have a chance.


From markclark at mac.com  Wed Oct 11 08:03:48 2023
From: markclark at mac.com (Mark Clark)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2023 07:03:48 -0500
Subject: Another (macOS) Code signing guidance question...
In-Reply-To: <9b176893-d16d-40a0-af73-c0034a7b3989@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <478a7f56-e24e-fb8b-a29e-872572ff150a@researchware.com>
 <2e9c987b-9bfd-5ecf-aa3a-1104d095f725@researchware.com>
 <9b176893-d16d-40a0-af73-c0034a7b3989@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <9AF15A9D-1325-4413-85ED-3FDBA74D3870@mac.com>

I haven't tried the API/web service for notarizing apps. But there appears to be a way and it might be simpler in the long run. Still need the (right) keys:)


https://developer.apple.com/documentation/notaryapi/submitting_software_for_notarization_over_the_web


On Oct 10, 2023, at 5:07 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

On 10/10/23 4:16 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
> The hardest part was getting the correct Certificates into the Keychain on the macBook Air. When code signing I kept getting an "identity not found" (or something like that) that meant I didn't have the "right" certificate or the certificate installed where it was needed.

Thanks for this. That was the error I was getting too. Apparently both of us have identity crises (ref: Doc Hawk. The smartalec.)

Guess I need to dig around in Keychain.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Wed Oct 11 09:21:28 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2023 09:21:28 -0400
Subject: No progress updates on LC 10. Am i the only one who is concerned?
In-Reply-To: <5f636baf-03c6-18e5-45dd-483c3219bc66@cogapp.com>
References: <8F7D10FF-1B32-4177-BFDC-7CEE721ACF8A@m-r-d.de>
 <13ec553f-f7ef-8fb7-42b5-77e6205cec4b@cogapp.com>
 <CAKCLKtouxq+aXSTuAmrygOS=X_y9E0RJtCRnjO=1VOwburVTcw@mail.gmail.com>
 <51859D53-03FD-4FA6-9C97-33B04803F016@mail.com>
 <CAKCLKtpwpgf=nXkSAk762ZuD9ZU+qs31aB0hXd7LNaidaniiPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <53887cdf-9bf4-4534-0741-ab08156b180b@cogapp.com>
 <5f636baf-03c6-18e5-45dd-483c3219bc66@cogapp.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycPR9Zz9wtvtV12Yw6K0AAe02+vzf9c1NdZQPLNND3bkxw@mail.gmail.com>

it's october. do you know where the script compiler and usable html5 are?

On Mon, Aug 21, 2023 at 12:10 PM Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Sad update: it's just happened to me again, with Bracket Completion
> switched
> off. I literally checked just before starting to type the format
> statement;
> after it crashed and I relaunched 10.0.0.dp5, I checked again. It was
> still
> switched off.
>
> I see that the bug is marked awaiting release - but it's not mentioned in
> the
> release notes for 10.0.0dp6.
>
> :-(
>
>
> On 26/07/2023 09:58, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode wrote:
> > Oooh - I hadn't spotted that. (With only a little bit of fear) I'll
> venture
> > back into 10dp5 and turn that off. Thanks Geoff!
> >
> > On 26/07/2023 03:49, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode wrote:
> >> So, not to be too much of an apologist, but the issue doesn't seem like
> a
> >> showstopper to me.
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jul 25, 2023 at 10:36 AM Dick Kriesel via use-livecode <
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On Jul 25, 2023, at 11:37 AM, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode <
> >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Maybe a silly question, but that issue lists "turn on bracket
> completion"
> >>>> as a step to reproduce. If bracket completion is off, is it safe?
> >>>
> >>> Hi, Geoff. I filed the report. With bracket completion off, I saw no
> such
> >>> problem.
> >>> — Dick
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> use-livecode mailing list
> >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >>> subscription preferences:
> >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription
> >> preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription
> > preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Wed Oct 11 09:41:09 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2023 15:41:09 +0200
Subject: No progress updates on LC 10. Am i the only one who is concerned?
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycPR9Zz9wtvtV12Yw6K0AAe02+vzf9c1NdZQPLNND3bkxw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8F7D10FF-1B32-4177-BFDC-7CEE721ACF8A@m-r-d.de>
 <13ec553f-f7ef-8fb7-42b5-77e6205cec4b@cogapp.com>
 <CAKCLKtouxq+aXSTuAmrygOS=X_y9E0RJtCRnjO=1VOwburVTcw@mail.gmail.com>
 <51859D53-03FD-4FA6-9C97-33B04803F016@mail.com>
 <CAKCLKtpwpgf=nXkSAk762ZuD9ZU+qs31aB0hXd7LNaidaniiPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <53887cdf-9bf4-4534-0741-ab08156b180b@cogapp.com>
 <5f636baf-03c6-18e5-45dd-483c3219bc66@cogapp.com>
 <CADCoycPR9Zz9wtvtV12Yw6K0AAe02+vzf9c1NdZQPLNND3bkxw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1FAB985C-2868-4564-906D-64233AD1F359@m-r-d.de>

I am afraid the whole power is put into the Web platform. 
And i am not sure how i should feel about it.



> Am 11.10.2023 um 15:21 schrieb Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> it's october. do you know where the script compiler and usable html5 are?
> 
> On Mon, Aug 21, 2023 at 12:10 PM Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Sad update: it's just happened to me again, with Bracket Completion
>> switched
>> off. I literally checked just before starting to type the format
>> statement;
>> after it crashed and I relaunched 10.0.0.dp5, I checked again. It was
>> still
>> switched off.
>> 
>> I see that the bug is marked awaiting release - but it's not mentioned in
>> the
>> release notes for 10.0.0dp6.
>> 
>> :-(
>> 
>> 
>> On 26/07/2023 09:58, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Oooh - I hadn't spotted that. (With only a little bit of fear) I'll
>> venture
>>> back into 10dp5 and turn that off. Thanks Geoff!
>>> 
>>> On 26/07/2023 03:49, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> So, not to be too much of an apologist, but the issue doesn't seem like
>> a
>>>> showstopper to me.
>>>> 
>>>> On Tue, Jul 25, 2023 at 10:36 AM Dick Kriesel via use-livecode <
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jul 25, 2023, at 11:37 AM, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode <
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Maybe a silly question, but that issue lists "turn on bracket
>> completion"
>>>>>> as a step to reproduce. If bracket completion is off, is it safe?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi, Geoff. I filed the report. With bracket completion off, I saw no
>> such
>>>>> problem.
>>>>> — Dick
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription
>>>> preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription
>>> preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>   and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org  Wed Oct 11 11:28:27 2023
From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (William Prothero)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2023 08:28:27 -0700
Subject: No progress updates on LC 10. Am i the only one who is concerned?
In-Reply-To: <1FAB985C-2868-4564-906D-64233AD1F359@m-r-d.de>
References: <1FAB985C-2868-4564-906D-64233AD1F359@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <1DBE4E66-92D0-4FCF-87B1-49A0A85E823D@earthlearningsolutions.org>

Just my take,
I'm just currently using livecode to write personal software. The various issues related to the app store and compatibility with other platforms are not something I have time or energy for. I'm retired and like to work on fun, rewarding projects, not frustrating searches for the one setting that will move me forward. 

However, the possibility that Livecode might become a platform for developing web applications is extremely interesting to me. It would encourage me to develop and post interactive learning games that I've thought about. However, the development process would need an interface that works in a well documented, straightforward way without the need to learn auxiliary programs (E.g. Javascript, php, python, c++, etc).

If I could write a program in livecode that deploys as easily as currently possible on my own desktop, I would be very overjoyed.

Bill
William A. Prothero, PhD
Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science
University of California, Santa Barbara


From ludovic.thebault at laposte.net  Wed Oct 11 12:06:37 2023
From: ludovic.thebault at laposte.net (Ludovic THEBAULT)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2023 18:06:37 +0200
Subject: Compiling for iOS : something wrong with Xcode and Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <CFD1C284-343F-47D3-85D0-73F855901290@laposte.net>
References: <CFD1C284-343F-47D3-85D0-73F855901290@laposte.net>
Message-ID: <B8C27330-F2BD-47E2-9E27-EA5C6F745CF8@laposte.net>



> Le 10 oct. 2023 à 19:14, Ludovic THEBAULT via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> a écrit :
> 
> Hello,
> 
> Is livecode uptodate is compatible with Sonoma ?
> When I try to compile for iOS I get this error :
> 
> There was an error while saving the standalone application linking for arm (arm64) failed with 2023-10-10 18:51:36.404 xcodebuild[74950:3301090] Writing error result bundle to
> /var/folders/j2/bpc701v12p78vsrq5Ifpdd×00000gn/T/ResultBundle_2023-10-10_18-51-0036.xcresult
> xcodebuild: error: SDK "iphoneos 16.2" cannot be located.
> xcrun; error: sh -c '/Users/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/us/bin/ xcodebuild -sdk iphoneoslo. -hnd q++ <> devnul tailed with exit code 10384: (null) (errno=No such hle or directory)
> xcrun: error: unable to find utility "g++", not a developer tool or in PATH
> 
> In the settings of livecode, I’ve selected Xcode 14.2 which doesn’t work on sonoma.
> In Xcode 15 i’ve installed 16.2 simulator.
> I’ve tried to install commandlinetools for Xcode 14.2 but it was refused.
> 
> Any ideas ?
> 
> Thanks !
> 

Hello, I found the solution :

In the terminal, use this command to switch to the « good » Xcode :
sudo xcode-select -switch /path/to/Xcode.app



Ludovic


From tom at makeshyft.com  Wed Oct 11 14:09:55 2023
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2023 14:09:55 -0400
Subject: No progress updates on LC 10. Am i the only one who is concerned?
In-Reply-To: <1DBE4E66-92D0-4FCF-87B1-49A0A85E823D@earthlearningsolutions.org>
References: <1FAB985C-2868-4564-906D-64233AD1F359@m-r-d.de>
 <1DBE4E66-92D0-4FCF-87B1-49A0A85E823D@earthlearningsolutions.org>
Message-ID: <CAPzQJLLD1HANFxkRe8mC+X4A67UunukcdrvLsirFa0DTVLcDYQ@mail.gmail.com>

On October 7th 2022, Kevin said that there would be a preview of the script
compiler in the next few weeks.
Thats the last update I found in the blog.
Software is hard, and we all miss deadlines, but an update would be good.
I tried to reach out to Mark W to get an update, but received no response.


On Wed, Oct 11, 2023 at 11:29 AM William Prothero via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Just my take,
> I'm just currently using livecode to write personal software. The various
> issues related to the app store and compatibility with other platforms are
> not something I have time or energy for. I'm retired and like to work on
> fun, rewarding projects, not frustrating searches for the one setting that
> will move me forward.
>
> However, the possibility that Livecode might become a platform for
> developing web applications is extremely interesting to me. It would
> encourage me to develop and post interactive learning games that I've
> thought about. However, the development process would need an interface
> that works in a well documented, straightforward way without the need to
> learn auxiliary programs (E.g. Javascript, php, python, c++, etc).
>
> If I could write a program in livecode that deploys as easily as currently
> possible on my own desktop, I would be very overjoyed.
>
> Bill
> William A. Prothero, PhD
> Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science
> University of California, Santa Barbara
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Oct 11 14:19:44 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2023 13:19:44 -0500
Subject: AW: Another (macOS) Code signing guidance question...
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq-wBz5MOUH_y_pWGNVs5wdXnksaikNUR_A=teEZz8V5Sw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <478a7f56-e24e-fb8b-a29e-872572ff150a@researchware.com>
 <2e9c987b-9bfd-5ecf-aa3a-1104d095f725@researchware.com>
 <9b176893-d16d-40a0-af73-c0034a7b3989@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CA+JfEq-wBz5MOUH_y_pWGNVs5wdXnksaikNUR_A=teEZz8V5Sw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e7a23c6d-9b45-42de-919d-95cc8d9c797f@hyperactivesw.com>

On 10/10/23 7:23 PM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote:
> Just downloading the certificate from your account in the apple dev website, and using it in a 
> different machine from the one it was created will not work (you get identity not found),

I wish the error message would be more informative. If I'd known the error was related to the 
certificate I'd have saved myself a lot of time. Thanks for this.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Oct 11 14:23:58 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2023 13:23:58 -0500
Subject: No progress updates on LC 10. Am i the only one who is concerned?
In-Reply-To: <1DBE4E66-92D0-4FCF-87B1-49A0A85E823D@earthlearningsolutions.org>
References: <1FAB985C-2868-4564-906D-64233AD1F359@m-r-d.de>
 <1DBE4E66-92D0-4FCF-87B1-49A0A85E823D@earthlearningsolutions.org>
Message-ID: <0fbc5bb5-0138-4246-b3e1-b7427a97fa83@hyperactivesw.com>

On 10/11/23 10:28 AM, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote:
> However, the development process would need an interface that works in a well documented, 
> straightforward way

Right. I tried LC Create for a few days but without documentation I didn't get very far. I 
couldn't figure out what syntax to use on all the new widgets and after some hours I gave up.

Every new control should have at least a list of messages/functions it uses. Without that, 
about all you can to is play with layouts for now. That's not an insignificant thing, but it is 
limiting.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Wed Oct 11 14:24:43 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2023 20:24:43 +0200
Subject: Another (macOS) Code signing guidance question...
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq-wBz5MOUH_y_pWGNVs5wdXnksaikNUR_A=teEZz8V5Sw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <478a7f56-e24e-fb8b-a29e-872572ff150a@researchware.com>
 <2e9c987b-9bfd-5ecf-aa3a-1104d095f725@researchware.com>
 <9b176893-d16d-40a0-af73-c0034a7b3989@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CA+JfEq-wBz5MOUH_y_pWGNVs5wdXnksaikNUR_A=teEZz8V5Sw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <83796971-3CB2-47E9-89F3-27D91288EB71@m-r-d.de>

Panos,


> Am 11.10.2023 um 02:23 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> Just downloading the certificate from your account in the apple dev
> website, and using it in a different machine from the one it was created
> will not work (you get identity not found), because you need the private
> key as well.
> 
But this is not case when the key chain is saved to iCloud and the other machine is also using the same iCloud account, isn't it.
At least i had never problems to download the certificates to an other computer which had also access to the same key chain in iCloud.

Regards,
Matthias



> This is why you have to export the certificate from the old machine,
> because exporting the certificate exports the private key that is
> associated with it as well.
> 
> Kind regards,
> Panos
> 
> On Wed, 11 Oct 2023, 01:08 J. Landman Gay via use-livecode, <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 10/10/23 4:16 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
>>> The hardest part was getting the correct Certificates into the Keychain
>> on the macBook Air.
>>> When code signing I kept getting an "identity not found" (or something
>> like that) that meant I
>>> didn't have the "right" certificate or the certificate installed where
>> it was needed.
>> 
>> Thanks for this. That was the error I was getting too. Apparently both of
>> us have identity
>> crises (ref: Doc Hawk. The smartalec.)
>> 
>> Guess I need to dig around in Keychain.
>> 
>> --
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Wed Oct 11 14:38:38 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2023 14:38:38 -0400
Subject: No progress updates on LC 10. Am i the only one who is concerned?
In-Reply-To: <0fbc5bb5-0138-4246-b3e1-b7427a97fa83@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <1FAB985C-2868-4564-906D-64233AD1F359@m-r-d.de>
 <1DBE4E66-92D0-4FCF-87B1-49A0A85E823D@earthlearningsolutions.org>
 <0fbc5bb5-0138-4246-b3e1-b7427a97fa83@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycPqGFL4xAwRgqDY99kMntimY1kw9=LHAZMafTkC_ZwEiA@mail.gmail.com>

"a few weeks" was also last october, then november, then last december.
i get it, i'm starting to sound like one of the grumpy old guys.
i'm also one who threw down for an html5 license (waiting for it to be
usable), and paid for a compiler license, what, eleven months ago?
i used to dismiss all the folks who complained about lc-forever, or
ic-reinvented, or whatever the campaign was from was it a decade ago when
lc went OSS? it can't be a decade ago.
unfortunately, the fact is that the sales pitches, year-after-year, are all
pay now, get later, and we seem to be left waiting, each time.

On Wed, Oct 11, 2023 at 2:24 PM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On 10/11/23 10:28 AM, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote:
> > However, the development process would need an interface that works in a
> well documented,
> > straightforward way
>
> Right. I tried LC Create for a few days but without documentation I didn't
> get very far. I
> couldn't figure out what syntax to use on all the new widgets and after
> some hours I gave up.
>
> Every new control should have at least a list of messages/functions it
> uses. Without that,
> about all you can to is play with layouts for now. That's not an
> insignificant thing, but it is
> limiting.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From paul at researchware.com  Wed Oct 11 14:55:49 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2023 14:55:49 -0400
Subject: AW: Another (macOS) Code signing guidance question...
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq-wBz5MOUH_y_pWGNVs5wdXnksaikNUR_A=teEZz8V5Sw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <478a7f56-e24e-fb8b-a29e-872572ff150a@researchware.com>
 <2e9c987b-9bfd-5ecf-aa3a-1104d095f725@researchware.com>
 <9b176893-d16d-40a0-af73-c0034a7b3989@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CA+JfEq-wBz5MOUH_y_pWGNVs5wdXnksaikNUR_A=teEZz8V5Sw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6fedbecb-2b71-1ba0-39ad-f854b371b5d4@researchware.com>

On 10/10/2023 8:23 PM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> Just downloading the certificate from your account in the apple dev
> website, and using it in a different machine from the one it was created
> will not work (you get identity not found), because you need the private
> key as well.
>
> This is why you have to export the certificate from the old machine,
> because exporting the certificate exports the private key that is
> associated with it as well.
>
> Kind regards,
> Panos
>

Thank you Panos.  If you or Matthias ever come across (or write) a goo 
step by step for getting Apple Certs to a new machine (new cert from 
Apple to a new machine, existing cert from Apple to a new machine, 
existing cert from one machine to another I think are the 3 
possibilities) you should link to it or add it to the code signing and 
notarization lesson.

We only do this rarely. For example I have a Apple Code signing cert 
that was created in 2021 and good until 2026. That was a replacement for 
an earlier one. I put than on a Mojave system that I have used to code 
sign since 2021. In 2 years time I have not touch the certs and would 
not have until 2026 if Apple did change the notarization command and 
make me move to a newer macOS. So I forget how its done. I even forget 
where I filed my own documentation on how to do it. So it's like trying 
to do it from scratch each time.

I try to do all the code signing (mac and win) and notarization (mac) by 
command line even though there are GUI tools (Matthias's excellent stack 
and AppWrapper and on and on) so that I at least know the steps in the 
process and id something goes wrong (because the vendor changes 
something) I know what step blew up.

Any way, thank you again.




From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Wed Oct 11 16:58:59 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2023 20:58:59 +0000
Subject: How rawKeyUp is handled
Message-ID: <SJ0PR02MB75331871B12F1F1F096F1067B2CCA@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>

Hi all.

I just found a strange oddity where on MacOS when I type a keyboard key in a field with a rawKeyUp handler, the letter is typed first, then the field gets the rawKeyUp message. This allows me to check the contents of the field for empty in case the user hit the backspace key to erase whatever was in the field.

On WINDOWS however, the letter is put into the field AFTER the rawKeyUp message, and since the handler exits to top if the field is empty, I can never type anything into the field!

More specifically, I have a field I use for hot typing a value, and after 1 second of no new data, it launches a database query to search for records matching what was entered. I call it the FindBar group and I use it EVERYWHERE!

So my question is, is this the expected behavior on a Windows OS??

Bob S

From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Wed Oct 11 17:18:18 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2023 21:18:18 +0000
Subject: How rawKeyUp is handled
In-Reply-To: <SJ0PR02MB75331871B12F1F1F096F1067B2CCA@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB75331871B12F1F1F096F1067B2CCA@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <SJ0PR02MB753350C733AA0EA31A39FE7FB2CCA@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>

Okay, belay my last. Something else is preventing the key from entering the field. I just tested it in new stack with a new field. 

Bob S


-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> On Behalf Of Bob Sneidar via use-livecode
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2023 1:59 PM
To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Cc: Bob Sneidar <bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com>
Subject: How rawKeyUp is handled

Hi all.

I just found a strange oddity where on MacOS when I type a keyboard key in a field with a rawKeyUp handler, the letter is typed first, then the field gets the rawKeyUp message. This allows me to check the contents of the field for empty in case the user hit the backspace key to erase whatever was in the field.

On WINDOWS however, the letter is put into the field AFTER the rawKeyUp message, and since the handler exits to top if the field is empty, I can never type anything into the field!

More specifically, I have a field I use for hot typing a value, and after 1 second of no new data, it launches a database query to search for records matching what was entered. I call it the FindBar group and I use it EVERYWHERE!

So my question is, is this the expected behavior on a Windows OS??

Bob S
_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From david.bovill at gmail.com  Thu Oct 12 08:53:41 2023
From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 13:53:41 +0100
Subject: Questions on Wasm export, licenses and file size
In-Reply-To: <BN8PR14MB2913C5C41722881CA0B1E684AFE5A@BN8PR14MB2913.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
References: <BN8PR14MB2913C5C41722881CA0B1E684AFE5A@BN8PR14MB2913.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAGASioOYQezyihnKgTvjxtkageUJO0ea_SUUfG+Sxr36azxpMQ@mail.gmail.com>

I know that HTML5 export is not quite ready yet - but I’m a patient man :)
I would like to know how it works / will work - particularly with regard to
the size of the exports.

With the old JavaScript export you had a separation between the engine  and
stacks such that you could cache the engine part in the browser to speed up
the loading of the much smaller stacks. Is that the case (or it is intended
to be the case in the future) with the wasm export?

I’m looking towards a world in which multiple wasm components written in
various languages sit on a web page talking to each other.

From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Oct 12 09:35:16 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 15:35:16 +0200
Subject: Android: Myapp stopped
Message-ID: <1606522B-12FB-4A06-9672-42801556D1C8@major-k.de>

Hi friends,

I am trying to install my app on the tablets of my bandmembers
and succeeded on all but one!?

Info: 
Samsung Galaxy Tab S
Android 6.0.1, API 23

After installation from LC (Test) I tap on the icon and get the alert:
-> Leadsheeter stopped (angehalten) 
immediately, no more info.

I already emptied cache and data and whatnot and even restarted 
the device a couple of times, no dice!?

The only info I could get after starting Android Studio was in the
"Device File Explorer" panel for the device which reads:
----------------------------------------
data -> app -> com.major-k.de.leadsheeter-1
run-as: Could not set capabilities: Operation not permitted
----------------------------------------
API too old? Anything else I can check in Android Studio?

Any hints very welcome!

Thanks a lot in advance.


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Thu Oct 12 09:43:30 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 15:43:30 +0200
Subject: Android: Myapp stopped
In-Reply-To: <1606522B-12FB-4A06-9672-42801556D1C8@major-k.de>
References: <1606522B-12FB-4A06-9672-42801556D1C8@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <868BFAC3-2668-4F7D-8810-13BE51051F60@m-r-d.de>

Hm,
just a shot in the dark, did you enable the Development mode on the tablets?



> Am 12.10.2023 um 15:35 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi friends,
> 
> I am trying to install my app on the tablets of my bandmembers
> and succeeded on all but one!?
> 
> Info: 
> Samsung Galaxy Tab S
> Android 6.0.1, API 23
> 
> After installation from LC (Test) I tap on the icon and get the alert:
> -> Leadsheeter stopped (angehalten) 
> immediately, no more info.
> 
> I already emptied cache and data and whatnot and even restarted 
> the device a couple of times, no dice!?
> 
> The only info I could get after starting Android Studio was in the
> "Device File Explorer" panel for the device which reads:
> ----------------------------------------
> data -> app -> com.major-k.de.leadsheeter-1
> run-as: Could not set capabilities: Operation not permitted
> ----------------------------------------
> API too old? Anything else I can check in Android Studio?
> 
> Any hints very welcome!
> 
> Thanks a lot in advance.
> 
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Oct 12 09:47:33 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 15:47:33 +0200
Subject: Android: Myapp stopped
In-Reply-To: <868BFAC3-2668-4F7D-8810-13BE51051F60@m-r-d.de>
References: <1606522B-12FB-4A06-9672-42801556D1C8@major-k.de>
 <868BFAC3-2668-4F7D-8810-13BE51051F60@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <F203628A-2F09-4A71-9696-13331A9ECCD7@major-k.de>



> Am 12.10.2023 um 15:43 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hm,
> just a shot in the dark, did you enable the Development mode on the tablets?

sure! 

A propos dark:
At midnight on a graveyard I tapped SEVEN times on the buildnumber, 
that should have done the trick, right! :-D

>> Am 12.10.2023 um 15:35 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Hi friends,
>> 
>> I am trying to install my app on the tablets of my bandmembers
>> and succeeded on all but one!?
>> 
>> Info: 
>> Samsung Galaxy Tab S
>> Android 6.0.1, API 23
>> 
>> After installation from LC (Test) I tap on the icon and get the alert:
>> -> Leadsheeter stopped (angehalten) 
>> immediately, no more info.
>> 
>> I already emptied cache and data and whatnot and even restarted 
>> the device a couple of times, no dice!?
>> 
>> The only info I could get after starting Android Studio was in the
>> "Device File Explorer" panel for the device which reads:
>> ----------------------------------------
>> data -> app -> com.major-k.de.leadsheeter-1
>> run-as: Could not set capabilities: Operation not permitted
>> ----------------------------------------
>> API too old? Anything else I can check in Android Studio?
>> 
>> Any hints very welcome!

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu Oct 12 11:36:34 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 15:36:34 +0000
Subject: Windows Standalone strands windows tasks
Message-ID: <SJ0PR02MB7533F0AE31AA9A3E67B47373B2D3A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>

Hi all.

I have a standalone that uses a splash stack, which upon launch displays a startup graphic, then hides itself and opens the mainstack of my project. On MacOS when I "quit" the entire application quits. On Windows however the splash stack (which is the stack the standalone is built from) keeps running, and if I re-launch the standalone it creates a second instance of the app in memory.

How do I get the standalone to quit when I close the mainstack in Windows?

Bob S

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Oct 12 12:07:54 2023
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (ambassador at fourthworld.com)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 16:07:54 +0000
Subject: Questions on Wasm export, licenses and file siz
Message-ID: <bc403825e4859c15ac1ce40f4e17acd098cf6d7e@fourthworld.com>

David Bovill wrote:
> With the old JavaScript export you had a separation between the engine
> and stacks such that you could cache the engine part in the browser to
> speed up the loading of the much smaller stacks. Is that the case (or
> it is intended to be the case in the future) with the wasm export?

A couple years ago Andre outlined the differences between JS and WASM, worth reviewing:
https://www.mail-archive.com/use-livecode%40lists.runrev.com/msg111108.html

With your background you're probably well aware of the differences, but since we see so many conceptualizing WASM as "compiled JavaScript" it's worth taking a moment to review their respective boundaries.

Given that WASM has no direct access to the DOM, and therefore no direct manipulation of controls or events, it is not a drop-in replacement for JS.

In LC terms, it may be best to think about WASM's relationship to the browser as similar to what externals are to LC.

Of course externals are very powerful; most of the v8 bullet points were new externals. But they still need LC Script to interface with our apps.

The degree to which LC Ltd will be able to compile the whole engine into WASM is a good question, but it seems clear it will be limited in some ways, and it's unlikely we'll see compilation of LC Script to WASM for the foreseeable future.

The good news is that the LC Community has a growing body of knowledge around JavaScript: some of the cooler widgets are just wrappers around a browser instance running JS/HTML/CSS.  And given the vast amounts of web-native (JS/HTML/CSS) code out in the world, folks are continually finding new ways to integrate the native web stack with LC stack objects nicely.

If web deployment is the goal, I see no downside and much to be gained from spending more time practicing JavaScript. While different from xTalk, it's a good language, and arguably closer to what xTalk might have looked like if HyperCard premiered 10 years later than it did.

Being comfortable with JS means being able to fill in gaps between your LC work and LC's web export more easily, and even within LC today it's the gateway to vast components via the browser widget.

JS is the only interactive language included in browsers.  The best time to learn it was yesterday. The second best time is today.

Like AppleScript, PowerShell, bash, and others, learning other languages opens new doors for integrating LC across a wide variety of systems.

Bonus: the more you learn JS, the less you need to wait for with the feature completion in LC's web export.

As for your question about deployment size, we can expect a WASMified engine to be smaller than its JS version, but there are so many factors that go into that it may just be too early to tell.

If you do a web search for "WASM replace JavaScript" you'll not only get deeper discussions than what I've offered here, but also some confounding benchmarks where it's possible to have compiled WASM larger than the source code, and sometimes only slightly small, and then some amazingly smaller.  So much will depend on so many implementation details...

--
Richard Gaskin
Fourth World Systems


From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Oct 12 12:19:41 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 18:19:41 +0200
Subject: Windows Standalone strands windows tasks
In-Reply-To: <SJ0PR02MB7533F0AE31AA9A3E67B47373B2D3A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533F0AE31AA9A3E67B47373B2D3A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <632618A9-F5A1-4245-BC4D-4B87C943F220@major-k.de>

Hi Bob,

> Am 12.10.2023 um 17:36 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi all.
> 
> I have a standalone that uses a splash stack, which upon launch displays a startup graphic, then hides itself and opens the mainstack of my project. On MacOS when I "quit" the entire application quits. On Windows however the splash stack (which is the stack the standalone is built from) keeps running, and if I re-launch the standalone it creates a second instance of the app in memory.
> 
> How do I get the standalone to quit when I close the mainstack in Windows?

add this to the script your mainstack:
-------------------------
on closestack
  close stack "your splash stack here"
  ## do more closestack stuff
end closestack
-------------------------
That should do the trick.

Hint:
To avoid this "Windows feature:
>> if I re-launch the standalone it creates a second instance of the app in memory.
add a dummy handler to your standalone/splash stack script:
-------------------------
on relaunch
   ## NADA!
end relaunch
-------------------------

> Bob S

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Thu Oct 12 12:39:25 2023
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 12:39:25 -0400
Subject: Questions on Wasm export, licenses and file siz
In-Reply-To: <bc403825e4859c15ac1ce40f4e17acd098cf6d7e@fourthworld.com>
References: <bc403825e4859c15ac1ce40f4e17acd098cf6d7e@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <008e01d9fd2a$ac0087f0$040197d0$@net>

ambassador at fourthworld.com wrote:

"JS is the only interactive language included in browsers.  The best time to
learn it was yesterday. The second best time is today."

+1
My today was about 5 years ago. JS has been an asset to my workflow ever
since. Being able get JS callbacks and invoke JS from LC has opened many new
doors.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu Oct 12 12:42:34 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 16:42:34 +0000
Subject: Windows Standalone strands windows tasks
In-Reply-To: <632618A9-F5A1-4245-BC4D-4B87C943F220@major-k.de>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533F0AE31AA9A3E67B47373B2D3A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <632618A9-F5A1-4245-BC4D-4B87C943F220@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <SJ0PR02MB75335F1B8A9BA620BA744193B2D3A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>

Thanks I'll give that a try. I think I am already quitting the splash stack, because my MacOS works properly, but the second part I never knew about. Unfortunately my Apple laptop is in the shop so I won't be able to test until Monday. 

Bob S 

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> On Behalf Of Klaus major-k via use-livecode
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2023 9:20 AM
To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Cc: Klaus major-k <klaus at major-k.de>
Subject: Re: Windows Standalone strands windows tasks

Hi Bob,

> Am 12.10.2023 um 17:36 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi all.
> 
> I have a standalone that uses a splash stack, which upon launch displays a startup graphic, then hides itself and opens the mainstack of my project. On MacOS when I "quit" the entire application quits. On Windows however the splash stack (which is the stack the standalone is built from) keeps running, and if I re-launch the standalone it creates a second instance of the app in memory.
> 
> How do I get the standalone to quit when I close the mainstack in Windows?

add this to the script your mainstack:
-------------------------
on closestack
  close stack "your splash stack here"
  ## do more closestack stuff
end closestack
-------------------------
That should do the trick.

Hint:
To avoid this "Windows feature:
>> if I re-launch the standalone it creates a second instance of the app in memory.
add a dummy handler to your standalone/splash stack script:
-------------------------
on relaunch
   ## NADA!
end relaunch
-------------------------

> Bob S

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de


_______________________________________________
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use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bvlahos at mac.com  Thu Oct 12 13:10:25 2023
From: bvlahos at mac.com (Bill Vlahos)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 10:10:25 -0700
Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <EF774AE9-5843-455E-87D7-1A0D50AEEA31@livecode.com>
References: <mailman.1.1696089601.89108.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <B4839189-B0EC-4D3F-AB4B-2C04F0EB0563@uzh.ch>
 <8B04CB3A-EE65-4346-BC42-B5A10E599003@livecode.com>
 <05A7E909-CE87-47A0-B288-ADEB8F18643C@m-r-d.de>
 <EF774AE9-5843-455E-87D7-1A0D50AEEA31@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <20EC1E2E-1619-4F1D-AA81-0907042C6357@mac.com>

Heather,

Do you think Apple will address this issue in an update to Sonoma?

Rebuilding all my applications will be difficult.

Thank you,
Bill Vlahos

> On Oct 3, 2023, at 6:56 AM, Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Matthias,
> 
> I think ANY menu will cause a crash. |f your app has no menus it will not be affected by the issue. Otherwise, it will crash, as does LiveCode itself  prior to the fix.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On 3 Oct 2023, at 11:53, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Heather,
>> 
>> thanks for clarifying the reason for the crashes.
>> 
>> At least this grants that standalones created with older LC versions will run as long as they do not contain a customized menu, right?
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Matthias
>> 
>> 
>>> Am 03.10.2023 um 12:24 schrieb Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> Hi Rolf,
>>> 
>>> No, the problem is not related to signing. The problem centers on how Sonoma handles menus, and any app that contains a menu will crash on Sonoma unless built with LiveCode 9.6.10 or 10 dp-6.
>>> 
>>> Best Regards,
>>> 
>>> Heather
>>> 
>>> Heather Laine
>>> Customer Services Manager
>>> LiveCode Ltd
>>> www.livecode.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 3 Oct 2023, at 09:53, Rolf Kocherhans via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> @Matthias and the Mothership,
>>>> 
>>>> My Apple Developer account expired several years ago, and I'm facing a critical issue with one of my LiveCode Apps, Clarify, developed by Trevor DeVore. This app is extremely important to me.
>>>> 
>>>> Unfortunately, Clarify is no longer actively developed and has started crashing with Sonoma. I am wondering if there's a possibility to resolve this issue by signing the bundles. I am more than willing to invest in a new subscription with Apple if that's what it takes – I can't imagine my work without Clarify.
>>>> 
>>>> Could someone please test if signing the bundles might make an app functional again?
>>>> Your assistance in this matter would mean the world to me.
>>>> 
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Rolf
>>>> 
>>>> Am 30.09.2023 um 18:00 schrieb use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com:
>>>> 
>>>> Maybe my observation is not the reason for the crash. Would really not make sense, when an unsigned app would crash instead of reporting an alert.
>>>> 
>>>> But code signing  the complete Livecode app bundle would proof it.
>>>> 
>>>> Did someone btw had a look at the system log file after the crash?
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From david.bovill at gmail.com  Thu Oct 12 15:16:40 2023
From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 20:16:40 +0100
Subject: Questions on Wasm export, licenses and file siz
In-Reply-To: <bc403825e4859c15ac1ce40f4e17acd098cf6d7e@fourthworld.com>
References: <bc403825e4859c15ac1ce40f4e17acd098cf6d7e@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <CAGASioPB6ug9EJGC6NqiKv_LBBR78foRyB_1ygc+QTeeFKFCSA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Richard specifically I need to know if I create an web page with
multiple HTML5  export embeds whether the Livecode wasm approach forces the
engine to be exported multiple times.

On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 at 17:09, ambassador--- via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> David Bovill wrote:
> > With the old JavaScript export you had a separation between the engine
> > and stacks such that you could cache the engine part in the browser to
> > speed up the loading of the much smaller stacks. Is that the case (or
> > it is intended to be the case in the future) with the wasm export?
>
> A couple years ago Andre outlined the differences between JS and WASM,
> worth reviewing:
> https://www.mail-archive.com/use-livecode%40lists.runrev.com/msg111108.html
>
> With your background you're probably well aware of the differences, but
> since we see so many conceptualizing WASM as "compiled JavaScript" it's
> worth taking a moment to review their respective boundaries.
>
> Given that WASM has no direct access to the DOM, and therefore no direct
> manipulation of controls or events, it is not a drop-in replacement for JS.
>
> In LC terms, it may be best to think about WASM's relationship to the
> browser as similar to what externals are to LC.
>
> Of course externals are very powerful; most of the v8 bullet points were
> new externals. But they still need LC Script to interface with our apps.
>
> The degree to which LC Ltd will be able to compile the whole engine into
> WASM is a good question, but it seems clear it will be limited in some
> ways, and it's unlikely we'll see compilation of LC Script to WASM for the
> foreseeable future.
>
> The good news is that the LC Community has a growing body of knowledge
> around JavaScript: some of the cooler widgets are just wrappers around a
> browser instance running JS/HTML/CSS.  And given the vast amounts of
> web-native (JS/HTML/CSS) code out in the world, folks are continually
> finding new ways to integrate the native web stack with LC stack objects
> nicely.
>
> If web deployment is the goal, I see no downside and much to be gained
> from spending more time practicing JavaScript. While different from xTalk,
> it's a good language, and arguably closer to what xTalk might have looked
> like if HyperCard premiered 10 years later than it did.
>
> Being comfortable with JS means being able to fill in gaps between your LC
> work and LC's web export more easily, and even within LC today it's the
> gateway to vast components via the browser widget.
>
> JS is the only interactive language included in browsers.  The best time
> to learn it was yesterday. The second best time is today.
>
> Like AppleScript, PowerShell, bash, and others, learning other languages
> opens new doors for integrating LC across a wide variety of systems.
>
> Bonus: the more you learn JS, the less you need to wait for with the
> feature completion in LC's web export.
>
> As for your question about deployment size, we can expect a WASMified
> engine to be smaller than its JS version, but there are so many factors
> that go into that it may just be too early to tell.
>
> If you do a web search for "WASM replace JavaScript" you'll not only get
> deeper discussions than what I've offered here, but also some confounding
> benchmarks where it's possible to have compiled WASM larger than the source
> code, and sometimes only slightly small, and then some amazingly smaller.
> So much will depend on so many implementation details...
>
> --
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Oct 12 16:37:14 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 15:37:14 -0500
Subject: Android: Myapp stopped
In-Reply-To: <1606522B-12FB-4A06-9672-42801556D1C8@major-k.de>
References: <1606522B-12FB-4A06-9672-42801556D1C8@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <26bd222d-1014-4025-a1fe-8e4a431301f0@hyperactivesw.com>

What minimum Android version is set in Standalone Settings? Does it include Android 6?

On 10/12/23 8:35 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi friends,
> 
> I am trying to install my app on the tablets of my bandmembers
> and succeeded on all but one!?
> 
> Info:
> Samsung Galaxy Tab S
> Android 6.0.1, API 23
> 
> After installation from LC (Test) I tap on the icon and get the alert:
> -> Leadsheeter stopped (angehalten)
> immediately, no more info.
> 
> I already emptied cache and data and whatnot and even restarted
> the device a couple of times, no dice!?
> 
> The only info I could get after starting Android Studio was in the
> "Device File Explorer" panel for the device which reads:
> ----------------------------------------
> data -> app -> com.major-k.de.leadsheeter-1
> run-as: Could not set capabilities: Operation not permitted
> ----------------------------------------
> API too old? Anything else I can check in Android Studio?
> 
> Any hints very welcome!
> 
> Thanks a lot in advance.
> 
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From heather at livecode.com  Fri Oct 13 04:36:45 2023
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 09:36:45 +0100
Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <20EC1E2E-1619-4F1D-AA81-0907042C6357@mac.com>
References: <mailman.1.1696089601.89108.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <B4839189-B0EC-4D3F-AB4B-2C04F0EB0563@uzh.ch>
 <8B04CB3A-EE65-4346-BC42-B5A10E599003@livecode.com>
 <05A7E909-CE87-47A0-B288-ADEB8F18643C@m-r-d.de>
 <EF774AE9-5843-455E-87D7-1A0D50AEEA31@livecode.com>
 <20EC1E2E-1619-4F1D-AA81-0907042C6357@mac.com>
Message-ID: <252DBA11-1A8B-41E3-93DA-DC2ED08A7274@livecode.com>

I don't think you can hope for that. It's not a bug, its a change in the way they are implementing menus.

Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 12 Oct 2023, at 18:10, Bill Vlahos <bvlahos at mac.com> wrote:
> 
> Heather,
> 
> Do you think Apple will address this issue in an update to Sonoma?
> 
> Rebuilding all my applications will be difficult.
> 
> Thank you,
> Bill Vlahos
> 
>> On Oct 3, 2023, at 6:56 AM, Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Matthias,
>> 
>> I think ANY menu will cause a crash. |f your app has no menus it will not be affected by the issue. Otherwise, it will crash, as does LiveCode itself  prior to the fix.
>> 
>> Best Regards,
>> 
>> Heather
>> 
>> Heather Laine
>> Customer Services Manager
>> LiveCode Ltd
>> www.livecode.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 3 Oct 2023, at 11:53, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Heather,
>>> 
>>> thanks for clarifying the reason for the crashes.
>>> 
>>> At least this grants that standalones created with older LC versions will run as long as they do not contain a customized menu, right?
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Matthias
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Am 03.10.2023 um 12:24 schrieb Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Rolf,
>>>> 
>>>> No, the problem is not related to signing. The problem centers on how Sonoma handles menus, and any app that contains a menu will crash on Sonoma unless built with LiveCode 9.6.10 or 10 dp-6.
>>>> 
>>>> Best Regards,
>>>> 
>>>> Heather
>>>> 
>>>> Heather Laine
>>>> Customer Services Manager
>>>> LiveCode Ltd
>>>> www.livecode.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On 3 Oct 2023, at 09:53, Rolf Kocherhans via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> @Matthias and the Mothership,
>>>>> 
>>>>> My Apple Developer account expired several years ago, and I'm facing a critical issue with one of my LiveCode Apps, Clarify, developed by Trevor DeVore. This app is extremely important to me.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Unfortunately, Clarify is no longer actively developed and has started crashing with Sonoma. I am wondering if there's a possibility to resolve this issue by signing the bundles. I am more than willing to invest in a new subscription with Apple if that's what it takes – I can't imagine my work without Clarify.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Could someone please test if signing the bundles might make an app functional again?
>>>>> Your assistance in this matter would mean the world to me.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Rolf
>>>>> 
>>>>> Am 30.09.2023 um 18:00 schrieb use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Maybe my observation is not the reason for the crash. Would really not make sense, when an unsigned app would crash instead of reporting an alert.
>>>>> 
>>>>> But code signing  the complete Livecode app bundle would proof it.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Did someone btw had a look at the system log file after the crash?
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 


From klaus at major-k.de  Fri Oct 13 04:48:10 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 10:48:10 +0200
Subject: Android: Myapp stopped
In-Reply-To: <26bd222d-1014-4025-a1fe-8e4a431301f0@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <1606522B-12FB-4A06-9672-42801556D1C8@major-k.de>
 <26bd222d-1014-4025-a1fe-8e4a431301f0@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <EA7DA380-CC5C-4931-8A64-0A66CD413A45@major-k.de>

Hi Jacque,

> Am 12.10.2023 um 22:37 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> What minimum Android version is set in Standalone Settings? Does it include Android 6?

it is set to 5, so yes, it should include version 6.

> On 10/12/23 8:35 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hi friends,
>> I am trying to install my app on the tablets of my bandmembers
>> and succeeded on all but one!?
>> Info:
>> Samsung Galaxy Tab S
>> Android 6.0.1, API 23
>> After installation from LC (Test) I tap on the icon and get the alert:
>> -> Leadsheeter stopped (angehalten)
>> immediately, no more info.
>> I already emptied cache and data and whatnot and even restarted
>> the device a couple of times, no dice!?
>> The only info I could get after starting Android Studio was in the
>> "Device File Explorer" panel for the device which reads:
>> ----------------------------------------
>> data -> app -> com.major-k.de.leadsheeter-1
>> run-as: Could not set capabilities: Operation not permitted
>> ----------------------------------------
>> API too old? Anything else I can check in Android Studio?
>> Any hints very welcome!
>> Thanks a lot in advance.
>> Best

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From david.bovill at gmail.com  Fri Oct 13 09:09:05 2023
From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 14:09:05 +0100
Subject: Questions on Wasm export, licenses and file siz
In-Reply-To: <CAGASioPB6ug9EJGC6NqiKv_LBBR78foRyB_1ygc+QTeeFKFCSA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bc403825e4859c15ac1ce40f4e17acd098cf6d7e@fourthworld.com>
 <CAGASioPB6ug9EJGC6NqiKv_LBBR78foRyB_1ygc+QTeeFKFCSA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGASioMPdx=Yu59TQdSnuGFVn0JHTdSe65yHforHLgZFvoPBdA@mail.gmail.com>

Lets take the following scenario:

1) We have a library of interactive components created in Livecode.  They
are structured as (Levure) components. They could be turned into script
components easily, or LCB based components with a little more work.
2) We wish to compose a series of apps based on these components in which
3-15 of them interact with each other on any given screen.
3) We can prototype and deliver these apps in a Livecode based prototype.
4) There is a project need for an advanced architecture that engages the
enthusiasm of University students and the wider developer community. We
therefore require a strategy that enables developers in a range of modern
language - particularly rust, javascript and python to participate.
5) It is a long term project - so we can take out time and wait for
technologies to mature. However we wish to deliver rapid prototypes that
can be tested with communities in the short term.

Given the above I’d like to be able to prototype the software(s) by
exporting these Livecode (Levure-style) components as wasm - and embed
these on web pages in which they communicate with each other securely.
Components that need speeding up, or reduced in file size once tested may
be rewritten eventually in another language.

My concern is:

- having several wasm components on a single web view will involve
multiplying the quite large engine download for each component?
- which licence will be required so that these wasm components over the
duration of the project?

On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 at 20:16, David Bovill <david.bovill at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Richard specifically I need to know if I create an web page with
> multiple HTML5  export embeds whether the Livecode wasm approach forces the
> engine to be exported multiple times.
>
> On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 at 17:09, ambassador--- via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> David Bovill wrote:
>> > With the old JavaScript export you had a separation between the engine
>> > and stacks such that you could cache the engine part in the browser to
>> > speed up the loading of the much smaller stacks. Is that the case (or
>> > it is intended to be the case in the future) with the wasm export?
>>
>> A couple years ago Andre outlined the differences between JS and WASM,
>> worth reviewing:
>>
>> https://www.mail-archive.com/use-livecode%40lists.runrev.com/msg111108.html
>>
>> With your background you're probably well aware of the differences, but
>> since we see so many conceptualizing WASM as "compiled JavaScript" it's
>> worth taking a moment to review their respective boundaries.
>>
>> Given that WASM has no direct access to the DOM, and therefore no direct
>> manipulation of controls or events, it is not a drop-in replacement for JS.
>>
>> In LC terms, it may be best to think about WASM's relationship to the
>> browser as similar to what externals are to LC.
>>
>> Of course externals are very powerful; most of the v8 bullet points were
>> new externals. But they still need LC Script to interface with our apps.
>>
>> The degree to which LC Ltd will be able to compile the whole engine into
>> WASM is a good question, but it seems clear it will be limited in some
>> ways, and it's unlikely we'll see compilation of LC Script to WASM for the
>> foreseeable future.
>>
>> The good news is that the LC Community has a growing body of knowledge
>> around JavaScript: some of the cooler widgets are just wrappers around a
>> browser instance running JS/HTML/CSS.  And given the vast amounts of
>> web-native (JS/HTML/CSS) code out in the world, folks are continually
>> finding new ways to integrate the native web stack with LC stack objects
>> nicely.
>>
>> If web deployment is the goal, I see no downside and much to be gained
>> from spending more time practicing JavaScript. While different from xTalk,
>> it's a good language, and arguably closer to what xTalk might have looked
>> like if HyperCard premiered 10 years later than it did.
>>
>> Being comfortable with JS means being able to fill in gaps between your
>> LC work and LC's web export more easily, and even within LC today it's the
>> gateway to vast components via the browser widget.
>>
>> JS is the only interactive language included in browsers.  The best time
>> to learn it was yesterday. The second best time is today.
>>
>> Like AppleScript, PowerShell, bash, and others, learning other languages
>> opens new doors for integrating LC across a wide variety of systems.
>>
>> Bonus: the more you learn JS, the less you need to wait for with the
>> feature completion in LC's web export.
>>
>> As for your question about deployment size, we can expect a WASMified
>> engine to be smaller than its JS version, but there are so many factors
>> that go into that it may just be too early to tell.
>>
>> If you do a web search for "WASM replace JavaScript" you'll not only get
>> deeper discussions than what I've offered here, but also some confounding
>> benchmarks where it's possible to have compiled WASM larger than the source
>> code, and sometimes only slightly small, and then some amazingly smaller.
>> So much will depend on so many implementation details...
>>
>> --
>> Richard Gaskin
>> Fourth World Systems
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Oct 13 11:41:32 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 10:41:32 -0500
Subject: Android: Myapp stopped
In-Reply-To: <EA7DA380-CC5C-4931-8A64-0A66CD413A45@major-k.de>
References: <1606522B-12FB-4A06-9672-42801556D1C8@major-k.de>
 <26bd222d-1014-4025-a1fe-8e4a431301f0@hyperactivesw.com>
 <EA7DA380-CC5C-4931-8A64-0A66CD413A45@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <18b29b333e0.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

I looked it up. It's a Samsung bug:
<https://stackoverflow.com/questions/37413667/run-as-could-not-set-capabilities-operation-not-permitted/47004505#47004505>

If you Google "Could not set capabilities: Operation not permitted " you'll 
see lots of results.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On October 13, 2023 3:49:32 AM Klaus major-k via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Jacque,
>
>> Am 12.10.2023 um 22:37 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>
>> What minimum Android version is set in Standalone Settings? Does it include 
>> Android 6?
>
> it is set to 5, so yes, it should include version 6.
>
>> On 10/12/23 8:35 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Hi friends,
>>> I am trying to install my app on the tablets of my bandmembers
>>> and succeeded on all but one!?
>>> Info:
>>> Samsung Galaxy Tab S
>>> Android 6.0.1, API 23
>>> After installation from LC (Test) I tap on the icon and get the alert:
>>> -> Leadsheeter stopped (angehalten)
>>> immediately, no more info.
>>> I already emptied cache and data and whatnot and even restarted
>>> the device a couple of times, no dice!?
>>> The only info I could get after starting Android Studio was in the
>>> "Device File Explorer" panel for the device which reads:
>>> ----------------------------------------
>>> data -> app -> com.major-k.de.leadsheeter-1
>>> run-as: Could not set capabilities: Operation not permitted
>>> ----------------------------------------
>>> API too old? Anything else I can check in Android Studio?
>>> Any hints very welcome!
>>> Thanks a lot in advance.
>>> Best
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
>
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From klaus at major-k.de  Fri Oct 13 11:50:02 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 17:50:02 +0200
Subject: Android: Myapp stopped
In-Reply-To: <18b29b333e0.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <1606522B-12FB-4A06-9672-42801556D1C8@major-k.de>
 <26bd222d-1014-4025-a1fe-8e4a431301f0@hyperactivesw.com>
 <EA7DA380-CC5C-4931-8A64-0A66CD413A45@major-k.de>
 <18b29b333e0.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <459C0F41-5D59-47D1-AA6E-74233478B5CF@major-k.de>

Hi Jacque,

> Am 13.10.2023 um 17:41 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> I looked it up. It's a Samsung bug:
> <https://stackoverflow.com/questions/37413667/run-as-could-not-set-capabilities-operation-not-permitted/47004505#47004505>
> If you Google "Could not set capabilities: Operation not permitted " you'll see lots of results.

thank you for this valuable info!
Too bad...

So it means the Samsung tablets with earlier versions of Android/API have this problem?
Our drummer and me also have Samsung tablets, but with Android 8.x resp Android 11.

> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On October 13, 2023 3:49:32 AM Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Jacque,
>> 
>>> Am 12.10.2023 um 22:37 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> What minimum Android version is set in Standalone Settings? Does it include Android 6?
>> 
>> it is set to 5, so yes, it should include version 6.
>> 
>>> On 10/12/23 8:35 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> Hi friends,
>>>> I am trying to install my app on the tablets of my bandmembers
>>>> and succeeded on all but one!?
>>>> Info:
>>>> Samsung Galaxy Tab S
>>>> Android 6.0.1, API 23
>>>> After installation from LC (Test) I tap on the icon and get the alert:
>>>> -> Leadsheeter stopped (angehalten)
>>>> immediately, no more info.
>>>> I already emptied cache and data and whatnot and even restarted
>>>> the device a couple of times, no dice!?
>>>> The only info I could get after starting Android Studio was in the
>>>> "Device File Explorer" panel for the device which reads:
>>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>> data -> app -> com.major-k.de.leadsheeter-1
>>>> run-as: Could not set capabilities: Operation not permitted
>>>> ----------------------------------------

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Oct 13 12:24:21 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 11:24:21 -0500
Subject: Android: Myapp stopped
In-Reply-To: <459C0F41-5D59-47D1-AA6E-74233478B5CF@major-k.de>
References: <1606522B-12FB-4A06-9672-42801556D1C8@major-k.de>
 <26bd222d-1014-4025-a1fe-8e4a431301f0@hyperactivesw.com>
 <EA7DA380-CC5C-4931-8A64-0A66CD413A45@major-k.de>
 <18b29b333e0.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <459C0F41-5D59-47D1-AA6E-74233478B5CF@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <18b29da6708.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

Yes, it seems like the bug was fixed in later versions. There are some 
workarounds in the stackoverflow link using terminal but I didn't 
understand them.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On October 13, 2023 10:51:26 AM Klaus major-k via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Jacque,
>
>> Am 13.10.2023 um 17:41 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>
>> I looked it up. It's a Samsung bug:
>> <https://stackoverflow.com/questions/37413667/run-as-could-not-set-capabilities-operation-not-permitted/47004505#47004505>
>> If you Google "Could not set capabilities: Operation not permitted " you'll 
>> see lots of results.
>
> thank you for this valuable info!
> Too bad...
>
> So it means the Samsung tablets with earlier versions of Android/API have 
> this problem?
> Our drummer and me also have Samsung tablets, but with Android 8.x resp 
> Android 11.
>
>> --
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>> On October 13, 2023 3:49:32 AM Klaus major-k via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Jacque,
>>>
>>>> Am 12.10.2023 um 22:37 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>>
>>>> What minimum Android version is set in Standalone Settings? Does it include 
>>>> Android 6?
>>>
>>> it is set to 5, so yes, it should include version 6.
>>>
>>>> On 10/12/23 8:35 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>>>>> Hi friends,
>>>>> I am trying to install my app on the tablets of my bandmembers
>>>>> and succeeded on all but one!?
>>>>> Info:
>>>>> Samsung Galaxy Tab S
>>>>> Android 6.0.1, API 23
>>>>> After installation from LC (Test) I tap on the icon and get the alert:
>>>>> -> Leadsheeter stopped (angehalten)
>>>>> immediately, no more info.
>>>>> I already emptied cache and data and whatnot and even restarted
>>>>> the device a couple of times, no dice!?
>>>>> The only info I could get after starting Android Studio was in the
>>>>> "Device File Explorer" panel for the device which reads:
>>>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>>> data -> app -> com.major-k.de.leadsheeter-1
>>>>> run-as: Could not set capabilities: Operation not permitted
>>>>> ----------------------------------------
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
>
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From klaus at major-k.de  Fri Oct 13 12:27:52 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 18:27:52 +0200
Subject: Android: Myapp stopped
In-Reply-To: <18b29da6708.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <1606522B-12FB-4A06-9672-42801556D1C8@major-k.de>
 <26bd222d-1014-4025-a1fe-8e4a431301f0@hyperactivesw.com>
 <EA7DA380-CC5C-4931-8A64-0A66CD413A45@major-k.de>
 <18b29b333e0.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <459C0F41-5D59-47D1-AA6E-74233478B5CF@major-k.de>
 <18b29da6708.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <3082E076-4503-4B9F-84CF-DC111576C415@major-k.de>

Hi Jaqcue,

> Am 13.10.2023 um 18:24 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Yes, it seems like the bug was fixed in later versions.

ah, thank you, I guessed.
So bad news for our guitarplayer/singer...

> There are some workarounds in the stackoverflow link using terminal but I didn't understand them.

Same here, so I wouldn't even try this! :-D

> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On October 13, 2023 10:51:26 AM Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Jacque,
>> 
>>> Am 13.10.2023 um 17:41 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> I looked it up. It's a Samsung bug:
>>> <https://stackoverflow.com/questions/37413667/run-as-could-not-set-capabilities-operation-not-permitted/47004505#47004505>
>>> If you Google "Could not set capabilities: Operation not permitted " you'll see lots of results.
>> 
>> thank you for this valuable info!
>> Too bad...
>> 
>> So it means the Samsung tablets with earlier versions of Android/API have this problem?
>> Our drummer and me also have Samsung tablets, but with Android 8.x resp Android 11.

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Oct 13 12:32:50 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 16:32:50 +0000
Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <252DBA11-1A8B-41E3-93DA-DC2ED08A7274@livecode.com>
References: <mailman.1.1696089601.89108.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <B4839189-B0EC-4D3F-AB4B-2C04F0EB0563@uzh.ch>
 <8B04CB3A-EE65-4346-BC42-B5A10E599003@livecode.com>
 <05A7E909-CE87-47A0-B288-ADEB8F18643C@m-r-d.de>
 <EF774AE9-5843-455E-87D7-1A0D50AEEA31@livecode.com>
 <20EC1E2E-1619-4F1D-AA81-0907042C6357@mac.com>
 <252DBA11-1A8B-41E3-93DA-DC2ED08A7274@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <SJ0PR02MB753347D5EBBD0207247ECE66B2D2A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>

Heather, just to be clear, I was under the implression that 9.6.10 and 10.0.6 WAS the fix for this. 

Bob S


-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> On Behalf Of Heather Laine via use-livecode
Sent: Friday, October 13, 2023 1:37 AM
To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Cc: Heather Laine <heather at livecode.com>
Subject: Re: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma

I don't think you can hope for that. It's not a bug, its a change in the way they are implementing menus.

Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Oct 13 13:46:14 2023
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 10:46:14 -0700
Subject: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
In-Reply-To: <SJ0PR02MB753347D5EBBD0207247ECE66B2D2A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB753347D5EBBD0207247ECE66B2D2A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <d1f9f298-bff7-4108-97e0-3d3efda4bbec@fourthworld.com>

We see it here in this list. We see it in the forums. We see it wherever 
app deployment is discussed:

OS requirements for packaging/stapling/signing apps are onerous.

At the edge of, and sometimes exceeding, being prohibitively so.

There's no point in making a standalone if you can't ship it.

If pro devs with decades of experience struggle with this, newcomers 
will run screaming.

SIMPLIFYING DEPLOYMENT IS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY.

Pardon the all-caps. I rarely use them. But this is important.

Simplifying deployment is more important than "AI".
Simplifying deployment is more important than "nocode".

It is the single biggest pain point.

And so it is the single biggest opportunity.

Fulfill the promise of "Everyone can code": focus on simplifying deployment.

Step 1: Acquire Matthias' great tool.

Step 2: Enhance it for current requirements across platforms.

Step 3: Look for every opportunity to further simplify the process, and 
take it, at least one more simplification with each new build.

This is important. It really is.

--

And no, web export will not magically save things.  Even when that 
becomes truly production-ready, it's only for web apps.  Not everything 
needs to be a web app.

There are a hundred ways to make web apps.

There are few ways to make cross-platform native apps.

And almost none that rival what LC can do on the desktop.

Play into strengths.  Make native deployment the best it can be.

When that's done, only then resume work on more peripheral features.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems


From klaus at major-k.de  Fri Oct 13 13:52:56 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 19:52:56 +0200
Subject: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
In-Reply-To: <d1f9f298-bff7-4108-97e0-3d3efda4bbec@fourthworld.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB753347D5EBBD0207247ECE66B2D2A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <d1f9f298-bff7-4108-97e0-3d3efda4bbec@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <31F57AB1-44B9-4E7E-8F5C-8297C373F4C7@major-k.de>

Bravo, Richard, you are so right, bravo!

> Am 13.10.2023 um 19:46 schrieb Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> We see it here in this list. We see it in the forums. We see it wherever app deployment is discussed:
> OS requirements for packaging/stapling/signing apps are onerous.
> At the edge of, and sometimes exceeding, being prohibitively so.
> There's no point in making a standalone if you can't ship it.
> If pro devs with decades of experience struggle with this, newcomers will run screaming.
> SIMPLIFYING DEPLOYMENT IS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY.
> Pardon the all-caps. I rarely use them. But this is important.
> Simplifying deployment is more important than "AI".
> Simplifying deployment is more important than "nocode".
> It is the single biggest pain point.
> And so it is the single biggest opportunity.
> Fulfill the promise of "Everyone can code": focus on simplifying deployment.
> Step 1: Acquire Matthias' great tool.
> Step 2: Enhance it for current requirements across platforms.
> Step 3: Look for every opportunity to further simplify the process, and take it, at least one more simplification with each new build.
> This is important. It really is.
> --
> And no, web export will not magically save things.  Even when that becomes truly production-ready, it's only for web apps.  Not everything needs to be a web app.
> There are a hundred ways to make web apps.
> There are few ways to make cross-platform native apps.
> And almost none that rival what LC can do on the desktop.
> Play into strengths.  Make native deployment the best it can be.
> When that's done, only then resume work on more peripheral features.
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Fri Oct 13 13:58:39 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 19:58:39 +0200
Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <SJ0PR02MB753347D5EBBD0207247ECE66B2D2A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
References: <mailman.1.1696089601.89108.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <B4839189-B0EC-4D3F-AB4B-2C04F0EB0563@uzh.ch>
 <8B04CB3A-EE65-4346-BC42-B5A10E599003@livecode.com>
 <05A7E909-CE87-47A0-B288-ADEB8F18643C@m-r-d.de>
 <EF774AE9-5843-455E-87D7-1A0D50AEEA31@livecode.com>
 <20EC1E2E-1619-4F1D-AA81-0907042C6357@mac.com>
 <252DBA11-1A8B-41E3-93DA-DC2ED08A7274@livecode.com>
 <SJ0PR02MB753347D5EBBD0207247ECE66B2D2A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <9C6A780E-CFD1-41F7-AE6D-623BC6587153@m-r-d.de>

Yes that is definitely the case.

But Bill asked if Apple will "fix that in Sonoma" so his old standalones will still work under Sonoma without building them again with 9.6.10 or 10.0.6. At least that was my understanding. ;) 



> Am 13.10.2023 um 18:32 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Heather, just to be clear, I was under the implression that 9.6.10 and 10.0.6 WAS the fix for this. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> On Behalf Of Heather Laine via use-livecode
> Sent: Friday, October 13, 2023 1:37 AM
> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Cc: Heather Laine <heather at livecode.com>
> Subject: Re: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
> 
> I don't think you can hope for that. It's not a bug, its a change in the way they are implementing menus.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org  Fri Oct 13 14:49:02 2023
From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (William Prothero)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 11:49:02 -0700
Subject: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
In-Reply-To: <d1f9f298-bff7-4108-97e0-3d3efda4bbec@fourthworld.com>
References: <d1f9f298-bff7-4108-97e0-3d3efda4bbec@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <E799CDE3-52E4-4079-B805-8A294830E347@earthlearningsolutions.org>

I second (3rd and 4th too) Richard's plea. Deployment is a killer.
Bill

William A. Prothero, PhD
Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science
University of California, Santa Barbara

> On Oct 13, 2023, at 10:47 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> We see it here in this list. We see it in the forums. We see it wherever app deployment is discussed:
> 
> OS requirements for packaging/stapling/signing apps are onerous.
> 
> At the edge of, and sometimes exceeding, being prohibitively so.
> 
> There's no point in making a standalone if you can't ship it.
> 
> If pro devs with decades of experience struggle with this, newcomers will run screaming.
> 
> SIMPLIFYING DEPLOYMENT IS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY.
> 
> Pardon the all-caps. I rarely use them. But this is important.
> 
> Simplifying deployment is more important than "AI".
> Simplifying deployment is more important than "nocode".
> 
> It is the single biggest pain point.
> 
> And so it is the single biggest opportunity.
> 
> Fulfill the promise of "Everyone can code": focus on simplifying deployment.
> 
> Step 1: Acquire Matthias' great tool.
> 
> Step 2: Enhance it for current requirements across platforms.
> 
> Step 3: Look for every opportunity to further simplify the process, and take it, at least one more simplification with each new build.
> 
> This is important. It really is.
> 
> --
> 
> And no, web export will not magically save things.  Even when that becomes truly production-ready, it's only for web apps.  Not everything needs to be a web app.
> 
> There are a hundred ways to make web apps.
> 
> There are few ways to make cross-platform native apps.
> 
> And almost none that rival what LC can do on the desktop.
> 
> Play into strengths.  Make native deployment the best it can be.
> 
> When that's done, only then resume work on more peripheral features.
> 
> --
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Fri Oct 13 14:59:04 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 19:59:04 +0100
Subject: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
In-Reply-To: <E799CDE3-52E4-4079-B805-8A294830E347@earthlearningsolutions.org>
References: <d1f9f298-bff7-4108-97e0-3d3efda4bbec@fourthworld.com>
 <E799CDE3-52E4-4079-B805-8A294830E347@earthlearningsolutions.org>
Message-ID: <956F1EE0-505D-4128-ABBB-D648A9314F8D@gmail.com>

+1, 

I totally agree this is really important (and really hard to keep up with). But Apple should take some of the responsibility for this. With the resources at their disposal they should be able to create a simpler and easier way to execute deployment without sacrificing security and authenticity. 

Very well said. I should add that I have also been using Kee Nethery’s instructions for signing Mac apps and it has been a godsend. I have not quite yet gotten to the point of deploying to the App Store (with it) but that will be the next step.

Mark


> On 13 Oct 2023, at 7:49 pm, William Prothero via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I second (3rd and 4th too) Richard's plea. Deployment is a killer.
> Bill
> 
> William A. Prothero, PhD
> Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science
> University of California, Santa Barbara
> 
>> On Oct 13, 2023, at 10:47 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> We see it here in this list. We see it in the forums. We see it wherever app deployment is discussed:
>> 
>> OS requirements for packaging/stapling/signing apps are onerous.
>> 
>> At the edge of, and sometimes exceeding, being prohibitively so.
>> 
>> There's no point in making a standalone if you can't ship it.
>> 
>> If pro devs with decades of experience struggle with this, newcomers will run screaming.
>> 
>> SIMPLIFYING DEPLOYMENT IS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY.
>> 
>> Pardon the all-caps. I rarely use them. But this is important.
>> 
>> Simplifying deployment is more important than "AI".
>> Simplifying deployment is more important than "nocode".
>> 
>> It is the single biggest pain point.
>> 
>> And so it is the single biggest opportunity.
>> 
>> Fulfill the promise of "Everyone can code": focus on simplifying deployment.
>> 
>> Step 1: Acquire Matthias' great tool.
>> 
>> Step 2: Enhance it for current requirements across platforms.
>> 
>> Step 3: Look for every opportunity to further simplify the process, and take it, at least one more simplification with each new build.
>> 
>> This is important. It really is.
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> And no, web export will not magically save things.  Even when that becomes truly production-ready, it's only for web apps.  Not everything needs to be a web app.
>> 
>> There are a hundred ways to make web apps.
>> 
>> There are few ways to make cross-platform native apps.
>> 
>> And almost none that rival what LC can do on the desktop.
>> 
>> Play into strengths.  Make native deployment the best it can be.
>> 
>> When that's done, only then resume work on more peripheral features.
>> 
>> --
>> Richard Gaskin
>> Fourth World Systems
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From tom at makeshyft.com  Fri Oct 13 15:14:12 2023
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 15:14:12 -0400
Subject: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
In-Reply-To: <956F1EE0-505D-4128-ABBB-D648A9314F8D@gmail.com>
References: <d1f9f298-bff7-4108-97e0-3d3efda4bbec@fourthworld.com>
 <E799CDE3-52E4-4079-B805-8A294830E347@earthlearningsolutions.org>
 <956F1EE0-505D-4128-ABBB-D648A9314F8D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPzQJLJiL07-tnLUuj93AJ03219ophMBvOe6tUEppKSxxw3v+w@mail.gmail.com>

100% the biggest problem I have in my business.
Have been stuck on iOS for months.
Android and Windows is kind of OK, but still more can be done.
Agree. Would pay for a solution that just works.

On Fri, Oct 13, 2023 at 3:00 PM Mark Smith via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> +1,
>
> I totally agree this is really important (and really hard to keep up
> with). But Apple should take some of the responsibility for this. With the
> resources at their disposal they should be able to create a simpler and
> easier way to execute deployment without sacrificing security and
> authenticity.
>
> Very well said. I should add that I have also been using Kee Nethery’s
> instructions for signing Mac apps and it has been a godsend. I have not
> quite yet gotten to the point of deploying to the App Store (with it) but
> that will be the next step.
>
> Mark
>
>
> > On 13 Oct 2023, at 7:49 pm, William Prothero via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > I second (3rd and 4th too) Richard's plea. Deployment is a killer.
> > Bill
> >
> > William A. Prothero, PhD
> > Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science
> > University of California, Santa Barbara
> >
> >> On Oct 13, 2023, at 10:47 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> We see it here in this list. We see it in the forums. We see it
> wherever app deployment is discussed:
> >>
> >> OS requirements for packaging/stapling/signing apps are onerous.
> >>
> >> At the edge of, and sometimes exceeding, being prohibitively so.
> >>
> >> There's no point in making a standalone if you can't ship it.
> >>
> >> If pro devs with decades of experience struggle with this, newcomers
> will run screaming.
> >>
> >> SIMPLIFYING DEPLOYMENT IS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY.
> >>
> >> Pardon the all-caps. I rarely use them. But this is important.
> >>
> >> Simplifying deployment is more important than "AI".
> >> Simplifying deployment is more important than "nocode".
> >>
> >> It is the single biggest pain point.
> >>
> >> And so it is the single biggest opportunity.
> >>
> >> Fulfill the promise of "Everyone can code": focus on simplifying
> deployment.
> >>
> >> Step 1: Acquire Matthias' great tool.
> >>
> >> Step 2: Enhance it for current requirements across platforms.
> >>
> >> Step 3: Look for every opportunity to further simplify the process, and
> take it, at least one more simplification with each new build.
> >>
> >> This is important. It really is.
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> And no, web export will not magically save things.  Even when that
> becomes truly production-ready, it's only for web apps.  Not everything
> needs to be a web app.
> >>
> >> There are a hundred ways to make web apps.
> >>
> >> There are few ways to make cross-platform native apps.
> >>
> >> And almost none that rival what LC can do on the desktop.
> >>
> >> Play into strengths.  Make native deployment the best it can be.
> >>
> >> When that's done, only then resume work on more peripheral features.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Richard Gaskin
> >> Fourth World Systems
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From dan at clearvisiontech.com  Fri Oct 13 15:58:36 2023
From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 19:58:36 +0000
Subject: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
In-Reply-To: <CAPzQJLJiL07-tnLUuj93AJ03219ophMBvOe6tUEppKSxxw3v+w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d1f9f298-bff7-4108-97e0-3d3efda4bbec@fourthworld.com>
 <E799CDE3-52E4-4079-B805-8A294830E347@earthlearningsolutions.org>
 <956F1EE0-505D-4128-ABBB-D648A9314F8D@gmail.com>
 <CAPzQJLJiL07-tnLUuj93AJ03219ophMBvOe6tUEppKSxxw3v+w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BYAPR12MB27093D2F06C453A6F1B11FF5B9D2A@BYAPR12MB2709.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>

+1

I obviously agree!    I finally got my Mac app uploaded to the Mac Store (and approved)… but what a pain!!!   There are SO many steps that could easily be done by LiveCode that they have chosen to omit.   Simple things like generating the .ipa for iOS (this is a simple command line), having a place to enter the permission strings for Mac Desktop apps (this is a pain because you must build the app, then grab the generated plist, edit it, then include it in your app settings and then build it again.  Not hard, but this is something LC should provide in the Application Settings Window.  On that note, the “LSApplicationCategoryType” key (and category key) is not included in the generated plist.  I had to add it manually.  Apparently, this is now required.   I’m sure the great minds at LC could find a way to sign your app if you have the correct files installed and “fill in the blanks”.  They could probably do justified text too, but I won’t get into that!!  :)

Yes, this is hard to keep up with.  But isn’t that the whole point of a product like LiveCode?  The product is supposed to do the dirty work for you.

Although usually at the last second… LC is pretty good when it comes to keeping up with requirements with Apple and Android when the problem causes you to not be able to submit to the app stores or OS incompatibilities.  But in the case of the above examples, there are workarounds.  So, you are on your own.

-Dan


From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> on behalf of Tom Glod via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Date: Friday, October 13, 2023 at 12:15 PM
To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Cc: Tom Glod <tom at makeshyft.com>
Subject: Re: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
100% the biggest problem I have in my business.
Have been stuck on iOS for months.
Android and Windows is kind of OK, but still more can be done.
Agree. Would pay for a solution that just works.

On Fri, Oct 13, 2023 at 3:00 PM Mark Smith via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> +1,
>
> I totally agree this is really important (and really hard to keep up
> with). But Apple should take some of the responsibility for this. With the
> resources at their disposal they should be able to create a simpler and
> easier way to execute deployment without sacrificing security and
> authenticity.
>
> Very well said. I should add that I have also been using Kee Nethery’s
> instructions for signing Mac apps and it has been a godsend. I have not
> quite yet gotten to the point of deploying to the App Store (with it) but
> that will be the next step.
>
> Mark
>
>
> > On 13 Oct 2023, at 7:49 pm, William Prothero via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > I second (3rd and 4th too) Richard's plea. Deployment is a killer.
> > Bill
> >
> > William A. Prothero, PhD
> > Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science
> > University of California, Santa Barbara
> >
> >> On Oct 13, 2023, at 10:47 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> We see it here in this list. We see it in the forums. We see it
> wherever app deployment is discussed:
> >>
> >> OS requirements for packaging/stapling/signing apps are onerous.
> >>
> >> At the edge of, and sometimes exceeding, being prohibitively so.
> >>
> >> There's no point in making a standalone if you can't ship it.
> >>
> >> If pro devs with decades of experience struggle with this, newcomers
> will run screaming.
> >>
> >> SIMPLIFYING DEPLOYMENT IS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY.
> >>
> >> Pardon the all-caps. I rarely use them. But this is important.
> >>
> >> Simplifying deployment is more important than "AI".
> >> Simplifying deployment is more important than "nocode".
> >>
> >> It is the single biggest pain point.
> >>
> >> And so it is the single biggest opportunity.
> >>
> >> Fulfill the promise of "Everyone can code": focus on simplifying
> deployment.
> >>
> >> Step 1: Acquire Matthias' great tool.
> >>
> >> Step 2: Enhance it for current requirements across platforms.
> >>
> >> Step 3: Look for every opportunity to further simplify the process, and
> take it, at least one more simplification with each new build.
> >>
> >> This is important. It really is.
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> And no, web export will not magically save things.  Even when that
> becomes truly production-ready, it's only for web apps.  Not everything
> needs to be a web app.
> >>
> >> There are a hundred ways to make web apps.
> >>
> >> There are few ways to make cross-platform native apps.
> >>
> >> And almost none that rival what LC can do on the desktop.
> >>
> >> Play into strengths.  Make native deployment the best it can be.
> >>
> >> When that's done, only then resume work on more peripheral features.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Richard Gaskin
> >> Fourth World Systems
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
_______________________________________________
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use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

From paul at researchware.com  Fri Oct 13 16:01:31 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 16:01:31 -0400
Subject: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
In-Reply-To: <d1f9f298-bff7-4108-97e0-3d3efda4bbec@fourthworld.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB753347D5EBBD0207247ECE66B2D2A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <d1f9f298-bff7-4108-97e0-3d3efda4bbec@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <d2c606a5-fdec-2dab-c166-3d9d0fcd1ed6@researchware.com>

I'd love to see versions of Livecode stacks that assist with code 
signing and notarization for as many platforms as possible (I am aware 
of stacks for Windows and macOS) built into Livecode.

That said, for my two major problems (1 on macOS and 1 on Windows), I 
don't think there is anything Livecode could have done to help (other 
than lessons/documentation).

On Windows my current certificate - a .pfx format code signing cert - is 
expiring in November, so I renewed it. However, as of June 1 2023, the 
Windows code signing industry moved to requiring all code signing 
certificates to be issued on an encrypted USB token and you must use 
specialized software (that 3rd party can not hook into to prevent 
malware) to access those tokens to code sign.

On macOS, I needed to update code signing and NOTARIZATION to 
accommodate that Apple is switching to a new notary tool that only rns 
on new versions of macOS (I was using Mojave and atool) so I HAD (forced 
by Apple) for update to using the macBook Air I have that happened to 
have Sonoma on it and than meant Xcode 15 command line tools for the new 
Notary tool. atool stops being accepted by Apple some time in November 
so my old notarization steps will stop working. The change in notary 
tool was easy with Matthias's lessons and documentation on livecode.com. 
The problem was getting my Apple code signing certificates AND related 
certificates on to the MacBook air from the Apple Developer site, 
something I don't think Livecode can really help with.

Yes, others have had still other issues some of which improvements in 
Livecode might help address, but for the two I ran into that I turned to 
the list for help for, they were ultimately nothing that I think 
Livecode could help with.

Just my 2 cents on my 2 issues.


On 10/13/2023 1:46 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
> We see it here in this list. We see it in the forums. We see it 
> wherever app deployment is discussed:
>
> OS requirements for packaging/stapling/signing apps are onerous.
>
> At the edge of, and sometimes exceeding, being prohibitively so.
>
> There's no point in making a standalone if you can't ship it.
>
> If pro devs with decades of experience struggle with this, newcomers 
> will run screaming.
>
> SIMPLIFYING DEPLOYMENT IS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY.
>
> Pardon the all-caps. I rarely use them. But this is important.
>
> Simplifying deployment is more important than "AI".
> Simplifying deployment is more important than "nocode".
>
> It is the single biggest pain point.
>
> And so it is the single biggest opportunity.
>
> Fulfill the promise of "Everyone can code": focus on simplifying 
> deployment.
>
> Step 1: Acquire Matthias' great tool.
>
> Step 2: Enhance it for current requirements across platforms.
>
> Step 3: Look for every opportunity to further simplify the process, 
> and take it, at least one more simplification with each new build.
>
> This is important. It really is.
>
> -- 
>
> And no, web export will not magically save things.  Even when that 
> becomes truly production-ready, it's only for web apps.  Not 
> everything needs to be a web app.
>
> There are a hundred ways to make web apps.
>
> There are few ways to make cross-platform native apps.
>
> And almost none that rival what LC can do on the desktop.
>
> Play into strengths.  Make native deployment the best it can be.
>
> When that's done, only then resume work on more peripheral features.
>



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Oct 13 16:34:03 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 15:34:03 -0500
Subject: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
In-Reply-To: <d1f9f298-bff7-4108-97e0-3d3efda4bbec@fourthworld.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB753347D5EBBD0207247ECE66B2D2A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <d1f9f298-bff7-4108-97e0-3d3efda4bbec@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <613a9115-ba87-4fd7-a42f-7995d0a6c6fb@hyperactivesw.com>

On 10/13/23 12:46 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
> If pro devs with decades of experience struggle with this, newcomers will run screaming.

I agree. But as a "pro" dev I'm embarrassed to admit that the problem I was having was of my 
own doing. Matthias' Helper tool is invaluable and I couldn't understand why it always worked 
before but didn't now. He took a look and found the problem. Actually, I had two problems, none 
of which LC could have solved.

Problem 1: I was using a certificate for the wrong app. I wish I'd known what "no identity 
found" meant. I could have fixed it.

Problem 2: (Stupid, stupid, stupid) I uploaded my app to Google Drive for download and forgot 
to zip it. Matthias found that it was corrupted when he tried to help (bless you, Matthias.) I 
have known forever that uncompressed files don't travel well but we had customers running 
Sonoma who were flooding the tech queue, and in the rush to get the thing out I forgot. And 
since I could run the original build on my own Mac, I couldn't figure out why no one else could 
open it.

That said, it would be great if LC could create an .ipa for iOS and provide 
notarization/stapling services for Mac apps. It's a start. But honestly, that would only be of 
marginal help. The certificates, profiles, keystores, etc. can only be created by the 
developer, and that's mostly where the headaches begin.

I used to be an enthusiastic Apple advocate but now I'm not so sure. Once you've seen the 
developer side your perceptions change. Google is only marginally easier these days too. I 
understand the security reasons for all the hassle, but that doesn't help when you're in the 
middle of it.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Oct 13 17:02:56 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 21:02:56 +0000
Subject: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
In-Reply-To: <31F57AB1-44B9-4E7E-8F5C-8297C373F4C7@major-k.de>
References: <SJ0PR02MB753347D5EBBD0207247ECE66B2D2A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <d1f9f298-bff7-4108-97e0-3d3efda4bbec@fourthworld.com>
 <31F57AB1-44B9-4E7E-8F5C-8297C373F4C7@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <SJ0PR02MB7533D5ACF0D23158336E77C5B2D2A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>

Don't know why I didn't see Richard's post in my email, but +1 too. 

Bob S

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> On Behalf Of Klaus major-k via use-livecode
Sent: Friday, October 13, 2023 10:53 AM
To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Cc: Klaus major-k <klaus at major-k.de>
Subject: Re: Deployment: a plea/opportunity

Bravo, Richard, you are so right, bravo!

> Am 13.10.2023 um 19:46 schrieb Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> We see it here in this list. We see it in the forums. We see it wherever app deployment is discussed:
> OS requirements for packaging/stapling/signing apps are onerous.
> At the edge of, and sometimes exceeding, being prohibitively so.
> There's no point in making a standalone if you can't ship it.
> If pro devs with decades of experience struggle with this, newcomers will run screaming.
> SIMPLIFYING DEPLOYMENT IS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY.
> Pardon the all-caps. I rarely use them. But this is important.
> Simplifying deployment is more important than "AI".
> Simplifying deployment is more important than "nocode".
> It is the single biggest pain point.
> And so it is the single biggest opportunity.
> Fulfill the promise of "Everyone can code": focus on simplifying deployment.
> Step 1: Acquire Matthias' great tool.
> Step 2: Enhance it for current requirements across platforms.
> Step 3: Look for every opportunity to further simplify the process, and take it, at least one more simplification with each new build.
> This is important. It really is.
> --
> And no, web export will not magically save things.  Even when that becomes truly production-ready, it's only for web apps.  Not everything needs to be a web app.
> There are a hundred ways to make web apps.
> There are few ways to make cross-platform native apps.
> And almost none that rival what LC can do on the desktop.
> Play into strengths.  Make native deployment the best it can be.
> When that's done, only then resume work on more peripheral features.
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de


_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Sat Oct 14 00:52:28 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2023 05:52:28 +0100
Subject: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
In-Reply-To: <d2c606a5-fdec-2dab-c166-3d9d0fcd1ed6@researchware.com>
References: <d2c606a5-fdec-2dab-c166-3d9d0fcd1ed6@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <2EB72C77-4091-4AB4-A248-DFE1CF84F091@gmail.com>

Re: The problem was getting my Apple code signing certificates AND related certificates on to the MacBook air from the Apple Developer site, something I don't think Livecode can really help with.

Paul, just so I understand this problem better. Is there a reason why you can’t just download your certificates from the Apple Developer site to your MacBook Air? Do they specifically restrict downloading to only certain devices? 

Mark

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 13, 2023, at 9:02 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I'd love to see versions of Livecode stacks that assist with code signing and notarization for as many platforms as possible (I am aware of stacks for Windows and macOS) built into Livecode.
> 
> That said, for my two major problems (1 on macOS and 1 on Windows), I don't think there is anything Livecode could have done to help (other than lessons/documentation).
> 
> On Windows my current certificate - a .pfx format code signing cert - is expiring in November, so I renewed it. However, as of June 1 2023, the Windows code signing industry moved to requiring all code signing certificates to be issued on an encrypted USB token and you must use specialized software (that 3rd party can not hook into to prevent malware) to access those tokens to code sign.
> 
> On macOS, I needed to update code signing and NOTARIZATION to accommodate that Apple is switching to a new notary tool that only rns on new versions of macOS (I was using Mojave and atool) so I HAD (forced by Apple) for update to using the macBook Air I have that happened to have Sonoma on it and than meant Xcode 15 command line tools for the new Notary tool. atool stops being accepted by Apple some time in November so my old notarization steps will stop working. The change in notary tool was easy with Matthias's lessons and documentation on livecode.com. The problem was getting my Apple code signing certificates AND related certificates on to the MacBook air from the Apple Developer site, something I don't think Livecode can really help with.
> 
> Yes, others have had still other issues some of which improvements in Livecode might help address, but for the two I ran into that I turned to the list for help for, they were ultimately nothing that I think Livecode could help with.
> 
> Just my 2 cents on my 2 issues.
> 
> 
>> On 10/13/2023 1:46 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
>> We see it here in this list. We see it in the forums. We see it wherever app deployment is discussed:
>> 
>> OS requirements for packaging/stapling/signing apps are onerous.
>> 
>> At the edge of, and sometimes exceeding, being prohibitively so.
>> 
>> There's no point in making a standalone if you can't ship it.
>> 
>> If pro devs with decades of experience struggle with this, newcomers will run screaming.
>> 
>> SIMPLIFYING DEPLOYMENT IS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY.
>> 
>> Pardon the all-caps. I rarely use them. But this is important.
>> 
>> Simplifying deployment is more important than "AI".
>> Simplifying deployment is more important than "nocode".
>> 
>> It is the single biggest pain point.
>> 
>> And so it is the single biggest opportunity.
>> 
>> Fulfill the promise of "Everyone can code": focus on simplifying deployment.
>> 
>> Step 1: Acquire Matthias' great tool.
>> 
>> Step 2: Enhance it for current requirements across platforms.
>> 
>> Step 3: Look for every opportunity to further simplify the process, and take it, at least one more simplification with each new build.
>> 
>> This is important. It really is.
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> And no, web export will not magically save things.  Even when that becomes truly production-ready, it's only for web apps.  Not everything needs to be a web app.
>> 
>> There are a hundred ways to make web apps.
>> 
>> There are few ways to make cross-platform native apps.
>> 
>> And almost none that rival what LC can do on the desktop.
>> 
>> Play into strengths.  Make native deployment the best it can be.
>> 
>> When that's done, only then resume work on more peripheral features.
>> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat Oct 14 12:16:22 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2023 11:16:22 -0500
Subject: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
In-Reply-To: <2EB72C77-4091-4AB4-A248-DFE1CF84F091@gmail.com>
References: <d2c606a5-fdec-2dab-c166-3d9d0fcd1ed6@researchware.com>
 <2EB72C77-4091-4AB4-A248-DFE1CF84F091@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <18b2ef973f0.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

The certificate is locked to a particular machine. You can either export it 
from Keychain or create a new one. To create the certificate, the Mac must 
submit a signing request, which I assume identifies the machine.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On October 13, 2023 11:54:39 PM Mark Smith via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Re: The problem was getting my Apple code signing certificates AND related 
> certificates on to the MacBook air from the Apple Developer site, something 
> I don't think Livecode can really help with.
>
> Paul, just so I understand this problem better. Is there a reason why you 
> cant just download your certificates from the Apple Developer site to your 
> MacBook Air? Do they specifically restrict downloading to only certain devices?
>
> Mark
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Oct 13, 2023, at 9:02 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> I'd love to see versions of Livecode stacks that assist with code signing 
>> and notarization for as many platforms as possible (I am aware of stacks 
>> for Windows and macOS) built into Livecode.
>>
>> That said, for my two major problems (1 on macOS and 1 on Windows), I don't 
>> think there is anything Livecode could have done to help (other than 
>> lessons/documentation).
>>
>> On Windows my current certificate - a .pfx format code signing cert - is 
>> expiring in November, so I renewed it. However, as of June 1 2023, the 
>> Windows code signing industry moved to requiring all code signing 
>> certificates to be issued on an encrypted USB token and you must use 
>> specialized software (that 3rd party can not hook into to prevent malware) 
>> to access those tokens to code sign.
>>
>> On macOS, I needed to update code signing and NOTARIZATION to accommodate 
>> that Apple is switching to a new notary tool that only rns on new versions 
>> of macOS (I was using Mojave and atool) so I HAD (forced by Apple) for 
>> update to using the macBook Air I have that happened to have Sonoma on it 
>> and than meant Xcode 15 command line tools for the new Notary tool. atool 
>> stops being accepted by Apple some time in November so my old notarization 
>> steps will stop working. The change in notary tool was easy with Matthias's 
>> lessons and documentation on livecode.com. The problem was getting my Apple 
>> code signing certificates AND related certificates on to the MacBook air 
>> from the Apple Developer site, something I don't think Livecode can really 
>> help with.
>>
>> Yes, others have had still other issues some of which improvements in 
>> Livecode might help address, but for the two I ran into that I turned to 
>> the list for help for, they were ultimately nothing that I think Livecode 
>> could help with.
>>
>> Just my 2 cents on my 2 issues.
>>
>>
>>> On 10/13/2023 1:46 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
>>> We see it here in this list. We see it in the forums. We see it wherever 
>>> app deployment is discussed:
>>>
>>> OS requirements for packaging/stapling/signing apps are onerous.
>>>
>>> At the edge of, and sometimes exceeding, being prohibitively so.
>>>
>>> There's no point in making a standalone if you can't ship it.
>>>
>>> If pro devs with decades of experience struggle with this, newcomers will 
>>> run screaming.
>>>
>>> SIMPLIFYING DEPLOYMENT IS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY.
>>>
>>> Pardon the all-caps. I rarely use them. But this is important.
>>>
>>> Simplifying deployment is more important than "AI".
>>> Simplifying deployment is more important than "nocode".
>>>
>>> It is the single biggest pain point.
>>>
>>> And so it is the single biggest opportunity.
>>>
>>> Fulfill the promise of "Everyone can code": focus on simplifying deployment.
>>>
>>> Step 1: Acquire Matthias' great tool.
>>>
>>> Step 2: Enhance it for current requirements across platforms.
>>>
>>> Step 3: Look for every opportunity to further simplify the process, and 
>>> take it, at least one more simplification with each new build.
>>>
>>> This is important. It really is.
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> And no, web export will not magically save things.  Even when that becomes 
>>> truly production-ready, it's only for web apps.  Not everything needs to be 
>>> a web app.
>>>
>>> There are a hundred ways to make web apps.
>>>
>>> There are few ways to make cross-platform native apps.
>>>
>>> And almost none that rival what LC can do on the desktop.
>>>
>>> Play into strengths.  Make native deployment the best it can be.
>>>
>>> When that's done, only then resume work on more peripheral features.
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From paul at researchware.com  Sat Oct 14 13:15:32 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2023 13:15:32 -0400
Subject: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
In-Reply-To: <2EB72C77-4091-4AB4-A248-DFE1CF84F091@gmail.com>
References: <d2c606a5-fdec-2dab-c166-3d9d0fcd1ed6@researchware.com>
 <2EB72C77-4091-4AB4-A248-DFE1CF84F091@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e1c29fa2-84d3-87f0-1551-dd25734782b6@researchware.com>

On 10/14/2023 12:52 AM, Mark Smith wrote:
> Paul, just so I understand this problem better. Is there a reason why you cant just download your certificates from the Apple Developer site to your MacBook Air? Do they specifically restrict downloading to only certain devices?

If you download from the Apple Developer site, apparently only the 
public key part of teh cert is downloaded. The private key, created on 
the machine you did a Code SIgning Request on is on that machine and not 
the Apple Developer site, which is why you need to either export and 
import between macs or generate a new certificate.

Panos answered this is another thread I started on this USE-LIST.


From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Sat Oct 14 15:41:43 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2023 20:41:43 +0100
Subject: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
In-Reply-To: <18b2ef973f0.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <d2c606a5-fdec-2dab-c166-3d9d0fcd1ed6@researchware.com>
 <2EB72C77-4091-4AB4-A248-DFE1CF84F091@gmail.com>
 <18b2ef973f0.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <070F7A6A-FECC-4AA8-8B90-EE2C25360993@gmail.com>

Ah, that makes sense. Thanks Jacque

> On 14 Oct 2023, at 5:16 pm, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> The certificate is locked to a particular machine. You can either export it from Keychain or create a new one. To create the certificate, the Mac must submit a signing request, which I assume identifies the machine.
> --


From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Sat Oct 14 15:42:38 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2023 20:42:38 +0100
Subject: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
In-Reply-To: <e1c29fa2-84d3-87f0-1551-dd25734782b6@researchware.com>
References: <d2c606a5-fdec-2dab-c166-3d9d0fcd1ed6@researchware.com>
 <2EB72C77-4091-4AB4-A248-DFE1CF84F091@gmail.com>
 <e1c29fa2-84d3-87f0-1551-dd25734782b6@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <33D95C6B-0B51-4F65-B805-027D2B5C76A5@gmail.com>

Perfect. I am sure I knew that at one point but had forgotten. Thank you for the reminder.

Mark


> On 14 Oct 2023, at 6:15 pm, Paul Dupuis <paul at researchware.com> wrote:
> 
> On 10/14/2023 12:52 AM, Mark Smith wrote:
>> Paul, just so I understand this problem better. Is there a reason why you can’t just download your certificates from the Apple Developer site to your MacBook Air? Do they specifically restrict downloading to only certain devices?
> 
> If you download from the Apple Developer site, apparently only the public key part of teh cert is downloaded. The private key, created on the machine you did a Code SIgning Request on is on that machine and not the Apple Developer site, which is why you need to either export and import between macs or generate a new certificate.
> 
> Panos answered this is another thread I started on this USE-LIST.



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Sat Oct 14 19:12:33 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2023 01:12:33 +0200
Subject: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
In-Reply-To: <2EB72C77-4091-4AB4-A248-DFE1CF84F091@gmail.com>
References: <d2c606a5-fdec-2dab-c166-3d9d0fcd1ed6@researchware.com>
 <2EB72C77-4091-4AB4-A248-DFE1CF84F091@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B2D68E4C-007A-4A44-AA79-3B36DAC235FD@m-r-d.de>

Hi all,

there is a way to export a Apple ID account including developer certificates and provisioning profiles at once using Xcode.
See here
https://dl.qck.nu/?dl=Transfer-Copy_Developer_Account_to_a_new_computer.pdf

Regards,
Matthias



> Am 14.10.2023 um 06:52 schrieb Mark Smith via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Re: The problem was getting my Apple code signing certificates AND related certificates on to the MacBook air from the Apple Developer site, something I don't think Livecode can really help with.
> 
> Paul, just so I understand this problem better. Is there a reason why you can’t just download your certificates from the Apple Developer site to your MacBook Air? Do they specifically restrict downloading to only certain devices? 
> 
> Mark
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 13, 2023, at 9:02 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I'd love to see versions of Livecode stacks that assist with code signing and notarization for as many platforms as possible (I am aware of stacks for Windows and macOS) built into Livecode.
>> 
>> That said, for my two major problems (1 on macOS and 1 on Windows), I don't think there is anything Livecode could have done to help (other than lessons/documentation).
>> 
>> On Windows my current certificate - a .pfx format code signing cert - is expiring in November, so I renewed it. However, as of June 1 2023, the Windows code signing industry moved to requiring all code signing certificates to be issued on an encrypted USB token and you must use specialized software (that 3rd party can not hook into to prevent malware) to access those tokens to code sign.
>> 
>> On macOS, I needed to update code signing and NOTARIZATION to accommodate that Apple is switching to a new notary tool that only rns on new versions of macOS (I was using Mojave and atool) so I HAD (forced by Apple) for update to using the macBook Air I have that happened to have Sonoma on it and than meant Xcode 15 command line tools for the new Notary tool. atool stops being accepted by Apple some time in November so my old notarization steps will stop working. The change in notary tool was easy with Matthias's lessons and documentation on livecode.com. The problem was getting my Apple code signing certificates AND related certificates on to the MacBook air from the Apple Developer site, something I don't think Livecode can really help with.
>> 
>> Yes, others have had still other issues some of which improvements in Livecode might help address, but for the two I ran into that I turned to the list for help for, they were ultimately nothing that I think Livecode could help with.
>> 
>> Just my 2 cents on my 2 issues.
>> 
>> 
>>> On 10/13/2023 1:46 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
>>> We see it here in this list. We see it in the forums. We see it wherever app deployment is discussed:
>>> 
>>> OS requirements for packaging/stapling/signing apps are onerous.
>>> 
>>> At the edge of, and sometimes exceeding, being prohibitively so.
>>> 
>>> There's no point in making a standalone if you can't ship it.
>>> 
>>> If pro devs with decades of experience struggle with this, newcomers will run screaming.
>>> 
>>> SIMPLIFYING DEPLOYMENT IS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY.
>>> 
>>> Pardon the all-caps. I rarely use them. But this is important.
>>> 
>>> Simplifying deployment is more important than "AI".
>>> Simplifying deployment is more important than "nocode".
>>> 
>>> It is the single biggest pain point.
>>> 
>>> And so it is the single biggest opportunity.
>>> 
>>> Fulfill the promise of "Everyone can code": focus on simplifying deployment.
>>> 
>>> Step 1: Acquire Matthias' great tool.
>>> 
>>> Step 2: Enhance it for current requirements across platforms.
>>> 
>>> Step 3: Look for every opportunity to further simplify the process, and take it, at least one more simplification with each new build.
>>> 
>>> This is important. It really is.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> 
>>> And no, web export will not magically save things.  Even when that becomes truly production-ready, it's only for web apps.  Not everything needs to be a web app.
>>> 
>>> There are a hundred ways to make web apps.
>>> 
>>> There are few ways to make cross-platform native apps.
>>> 
>>> And almost none that rival what LC can do on the desktop.
>>> 
>>> Play into strengths.  Make native deployment the best it can be.
>>> 
>>> When that's done, only then resume work on more peripheral features.
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From paul at researchware.com  Sat Oct 14 19:55:27 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2023 19:55:27 -0400
Subject: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
In-Reply-To: <B2D68E4C-007A-4A44-AA79-3B36DAC235FD@m-r-d.de>
References: <d2c606a5-fdec-2dab-c166-3d9d0fcd1ed6@researchware.com>
 <2EB72C77-4091-4AB4-A248-DFE1CF84F091@gmail.com>
 <B2D68E4C-007A-4A44-AA79-3B36DAC235FD@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <a5e90995-306b-7640-7566-bb3c9efa4f20@researchware.com>

On 10/14/2023 7:12 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> there is a way to export a Apple ID account including developer certificates and provisioning profiles at once using Xcode.
> See here
> https://dl.qck.nu/?dl=Transfer-Copy_Developer_Account_to_a_new_computer.pdf
>
> Regards,
> Matthias

So for some time, I have only downloaded the "command Line Tools for 
XCode n.n" rather than the full Xcode install for two reasons: (1) To 
date, I thought I only needed the command line tools for code signing 
and notarization/stapling; and (2) to sage a couple GB of space

The above is the first reason I have seen, if you are only developing 
with Livecode, to download the full Xcode install.

Thank you.




From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Sun Oct 15 15:23:42 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2023 20:23:42 +0100
Subject: Universal buttons: bugs or feature
Message-ID: <A9780204-4439-4CD1-B5E6-31E254BCF984@gmail.com>

Hello all,

Recently I decided to try out a number of different button styles to see which ones I liked best, and I ran across some odd behaviour with “Universal” buttons. First, there does not appear to be any style difference between an enabled universal button and a disabled one. With all other button styles there is a noticeable difference between the enabled and disabled versions. More importantly (perhaps) with all other button types if you depress the mouse over the button then move the mouse off the button and release it it does not fire the button. With universal buttons if you move a depressed mouse off the button and then release it the button fires. And this behaviour does not appear to conform to Apple’s user interface guidelines "The mousedown event is fired at an Element when a pointing device button is pressed while the pointer is inside the element.” 

Are these differences in the Universal button deliberate features or bugs? If features, why so? 

Thanks
Mark



From paul at researchware.com  Sun Oct 15 16:59:00 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2023 16:59:00 -0400
Subject: Another macOS Codesigning/Notarization issue
Message-ID: <1b4cf0ce-8527-6c4c-46bc-29e5d449ae07@researchware.com>

Help,

I am trying to switch Notarization tools for the Apple November 
deadline. I was using macOS Mojave with Xcode 10.2.1 and not (to use the 
new mandated Notary tool) have to move to Sonoma with Xcode 15.0.0.

I have signed, notarized, and stapled (all responses returned were what 
the lessons at Livecode.com by Matthias said they should be) a Livecode 
9.6.10 Standalone using my Mojave system (the old tool) and it works on 
Sonoma and Mojave

I have signed, notarized, and stapled (all responses were as the lesson 
said they should be) a Livecode 9.6.10 Standalone using my Sonoma system 
(the new tool) and I get  an error trying to run it on Sonoma. It runs 
under Mojave (although the first time the cursor spins a lot and it 
takes a while to start)

The error is an extraordinary helpful dialog with a smiling macOS icon 
that say 'The application "<appname>" can't be opened." and an OK button.

I though for a bit that it was that I was still building for Intel and 
the Sonoma is a M1 macBook Air, so I changed the Standalone settings and 
redid everything (again all seemed okay) and the GetInfo says Universal 
(where it said Intel before) but I get the same message.

AGAIN, the old Notarization procedure produces an notarized (and 
stapled) app (that is actually just Intel) that runs without error on 
Sonoma on M1 MacBook Air and Mojave on Intel Powerbook, but the new one, 
from the lessons for Xcode 13+ produced the error above and my app will 
not run.

Security is set to allow App Store and Identified Developers.

Unless I figure this out, I will not be able to make new version of our 
macOS app after November 1. Has anyone else experienced this? Has any 
one see this message?




From rabit at revigniter.com  Sun Oct 15 17:46:31 2023
From: rabit at revigniter.com (Ralf Bitter)
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2023 23:46:31 +0200
Subject: Universal buttons: bugs or feature
In-Reply-To: <A9780204-4439-4CD1-B5E6-31E254BCF984@gmail.com>
References: <A9780204-4439-4CD1-B5E6-31E254BCF984@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3e10df1e-5bac-8362-c33d-6eaac5382d10@revigniter.com>

Neither, it is quite simply sloppiness. Sorry for that,
will look into it.


Ralf


On 15.10.2023 21:23, Mark Smith via use-livecode wrote:
> Are these differences in the Universal button deliberate features or bugs? If features, why so?



From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Mon Oct 16 03:14:24 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2023 08:14:24 +0100
Subject: Universal buttons: bugs or feature
In-Reply-To: <3e10df1e-5bac-8362-c33d-6eaac5382d10@revigniter.com>
References: <3e10df1e-5bac-8362-c33d-6eaac5382d10@revigniter.com>
Message-ID: <FC880F0F-A1BC-4511-AEA0-7DDB30DFE324@gmail.com>

Thanks Ralf. I quite like the look of the Universal button myself. Since its a widget, if you come up with a revision and want it tested I’d be happy try it in my current project.

Best,
Mark


Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 15, 2023, at 10:46 PM, Ralf Bitter via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Neither, it is quite simply sloppiness. Sorry for that,
> will look into it.
> 
> 
> Ralf
> 
> 
>> On 15.10.2023 21:23, Mark Smith via use-livecode wrote:
>> Are these differences in the Universal button deliberate features or bugs? If features, why so?
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From heather at livecode.com  Mon Oct 16 06:31:10 2023
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2023 11:31:10 +0100
Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <9C6A780E-CFD1-41F7-AE6D-623BC6587153@m-r-d.de>
References: <mailman.1.1696089601.89108.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <B4839189-B0EC-4D3F-AB4B-2C04F0EB0563@uzh.ch>
 <8B04CB3A-EE65-4346-BC42-B5A10E599003@livecode.com>
 <05A7E909-CE87-47A0-B288-ADEB8F18643C@m-r-d.de>
 <EF774AE9-5843-455E-87D7-1A0D50AEEA31@livecode.com>
 <20EC1E2E-1619-4F1D-AA81-0907042C6357@mac.com>
 <252DBA11-1A8B-41E3-93DA-DC2ED08A7274@livecode.com>
 <SJ0PR02MB753347D5EBBD0207247ECE66B2D2A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <9C6A780E-CFD1-41F7-AE6D-623BC6587153@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <FDC45705-7594-4294-9851-564E60F2031F@livecode.com>

Yes, that was the question I was answering.

Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 13 Oct 2023, at 18:58, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Yes that is definitely the case.
> 
> But Bill asked if Apple will "fix that in Sonoma" so his old standalones will still work under Sonoma without building them again with 9.6.10 or 10.0.6. At least that was my understanding. ;) 
> 
> 
> 
>> Am 13.10.2023 um 18:32 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Heather, just to be clear, I was under the implression that 9.6.10 and 10.0.6 WAS the fix for this. 
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> On Behalf Of Heather Laine via use-livecode
>> Sent: Friday, October 13, 2023 1:37 AM
>> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
>> Cc: Heather Laine <heather at livecode.com>
>> Subject: Re: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
>> 
>> I don't think you can hope for that. It's not a bug, its a change in the way they are implementing menus.
>> 
>> Best Regards,
>> 
>> Heather
>> 
>> Heather Laine
>> Customer Services Manager
>> LiveCode Ltd
>> www.livecode.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Oct 16 13:10:45 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2023 12:10:45 -0500
Subject: Another macOS Codesigning/Notarization issue
In-Reply-To: <1b4cf0ce-8527-6c4c-46bc-29e5d449ae07@researchware.com>
References: <1b4cf0ce-8527-6c4c-46bc-29e5d449ae07@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <18b3977f608.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

The uninformative error dialog is what I got when the app was corrupted but 
I doubt that's the problem for yours. But if code signing is the issue you 
usually get a different dialog with a reason.

Have you tried Matthias' helper tool? Once I fixed my app it worked 
perfectly. You can download it from the link at the top of the lesson page, 
the one for Xcode 13+. t does use notarytool.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On October 15, 2023 4:01:05 PM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Help,
>
> I am trying to switch Notarization tools for the Apple November
> deadline. I was using macOS Mojave with Xcode 10.2.1 and not (to use the
> new mandated Notary tool) have to move to Sonoma with Xcode 15.0.0.
>
> I have signed, notarized, and stapled (all responses returned were what
> the lessons at Livecode.com by Matthias said they should be) a Livecode
> 9.6.10 Standalone using my Mojave system (the old tool) and it works on
> Sonoma and Mojave
>
> I have signed, notarized, and stapled (all responses were as the lesson
> said they should be) a Livecode 9.6.10 Standalone using my Sonoma system
> (the new tool) and I get  an error trying to run it on Sonoma. It runs
> under Mojave (although the first time the cursor spins a lot and it
> takes a while to start)
>
> The error is an extraordinary helpful dialog with a smiling macOS icon
> that say 'The application "<appname>" can't be opened." and an OK button.
>
> I though for a bit that it was that I was still building for Intel and
> the Sonoma is a M1 macBook Air, so I changed the Standalone settings and
> redid everything (again all seemed okay) and the GetInfo says Universal
> (where it said Intel before) but I get the same message.
>
> AGAIN, the old Notarization procedure produces an notarized (and
> stapled) app (that is actually just Intel) that runs without error on
> Sonoma on M1 MacBook Air and Mojave on Intel Powerbook, but the new one,
> from the lessons for Xcode 13+ produced the error above and my app will
> not run.
>
> Security is set to allow App Store and Identified Developers.
>
> Unless I figure this out, I will not be able to make new version of our
> macOS app after November 1. Has anyone else experienced this? Has any
> one see this message?
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au  Mon Oct 16 19:19:40 2023
From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2023 10:19:40 +1100
Subject: arrayToJSON on lc server
Message-ID: <F6C9FD71-71BA-4A02-9CBA-AA7F81E03E43@optusnet.com.au>

I am having a problem with the function arrayToJSON on LC Server 9.6.10  pro (Linux host) (I couldn't get it to work on earlier versions either)

I get the error

Function: error in function handler (arrayToJSON)
The mergJSON.so file is in the Externals folder, which resides in the same directory as livecode-server. Since revdb calls work, which I assume use the revdb.so library, evidently Externals are loading, and permissions for mergJSON.so are the same as for revdb.so.

This is supposed to work out of the box, so I must be missing something obvious.

BTW, the call "the externalFunctions of this stack" return empty - is that correct, should it not return the functions available in the Externals .so libraries?

Neville Smythe





From kee.nethery at elloco.com  Mon Oct 16 20:49:01 2023
From: kee.nethery at elloco.com (kee nethery)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2023 17:49:01 -0700
Subject: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
In-Reply-To: <31F57AB1-44B9-4E7E-8F5C-8297C373F4C7@major-k.de>
References: <SJ0PR02MB753347D5EBBD0207247ECE66B2D2A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <d1f9f298-bff7-4108-97e0-3d3efda4bbec@fourthworld.com>
 <31F57AB1-44B9-4E7E-8F5C-8297C373F4C7@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <DE3F92A4-8670-4B15-B34F-E6F4ACDC6310@elloco.com>

I’ve stopped development of my Mac app because LiveCode does not support in-app purchases (ie, allowing me to get paid) and the deployment hassle is just not worth it for an app that has no way to make money.

There is NO REASON for each developer to painfully figure out how to deploy apps when LiveCode could do it for everyone.

Kee Nethery

> On Oct 13, 2023, at 10:52 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Bravo, Richard, you are so right, bravo!
> 
>> Am 13.10.2023 um 19:46 schrieb Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> We see it here in this list. We see it in the forums. We see it wherever app deployment is discussed:
>> OS requirements for packaging/stapling/signing apps are onerous.
>> At the edge of, and sometimes exceeding, being prohibitively so.
>> There's no point in making a standalone if you can't ship it.
>> If pro devs with decades of experience struggle with this, newcomers will run screaming.
>> SIMPLIFYING DEPLOYMENT IS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY.
>> Pardon the all-caps. I rarely use them. But this is important.
>> Simplifying deployment is more important than "AI".
>> Simplifying deployment is more important than "nocode".
>> It is the single biggest pain point.
>> And so it is the single biggest opportunity.
>> Fulfill the promise of "Everyone can code": focus on simplifying deployment.
>> Step 1: Acquire Matthias' great tool.
>> Step 2: Enhance it for current requirements across platforms.
>> Step 3: Look for every opportunity to further simplify the process, and take it, at least one more simplification with each new build.
>> This is important. It really is.
>> --
>> And no, web export will not magically save things.  Even when that becomes truly production-ready, it's only for web apps.  Not everything needs to be a web app.
>> There are a hundred ways to make web apps.
>> There are few ways to make cross-platform native apps.
>> And almost none that rival what LC can do on the desktop.
>> Play into strengths.  Make native deployment the best it can be.
>> When that's done, only then resume work on more peripheral features.
>> -- 
>> Richard Gaskin
>> Fourth World Systems
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Mon Oct 16 22:49:15 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2023 22:49:15 -0400
Subject: arrayToJSON on lc server
In-Reply-To: <F6C9FD71-71BA-4A02-9CBA-AA7F81E03E43@optusnet.com.au>
References: <F6C9FD71-71BA-4A02-9CBA-AA7F81E03E43@optusnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <CADCoycN0328t6dynX58mrwU4oht-2aQQEU7vZNZ772CTT3_j4A@mail.gmail.com>

the externalfunctions doesn't seem to be returning anything for a project i
just opened (never tested it, before). that project has a lot of
standalone inclusions, some of which have external functions, so i don't
know if it means externals that are directly attached to the stack (like
old xcmd's/xfcn's).
grasping at straws, because i'm not deploying to lc server on linux
* i assume you manually included mergjson in your standalone (assuming
you're building your project). if not, try that.
* have you tried embedding the source from the
mergJSONLibrary.livecodescript into your main stack and then stepping
through the code? it's available in the oss repo or any of the forks of
that repo. that's just the library, not the mergjsonencode external, but it
might get you closer.
* if that doesn't work, there are at least two other oss lc json codebases,
the most popular being mark smith's, which, i think, is what monte used
when he wrote mergjson.

On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 7:21 PM Neville Smythe via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I am having a problem with the function arrayToJSON on LC Server 9.6.10
> pro (Linux host) (I couldn't get it to work on earlier versions either)
>
> I get the error
>
> Function: error in function handler (arrayToJSON)
> The mergJSON.so file is in the Externals folder, which resides in the same
> directory as livecode-server. Since revdb calls work, which I assume use
> the revdb.so library, evidently Externals are loading, and permissions for
> mergJSON.so are the same as for revdb.so.
>
> This is supposed to work out of the box, so I must be missing something
> obvious.
>
> BTW, the call "the externalFunctions of this stack" return empty - is that
> correct, should it not return the functions available in the Externals .so
> libraries?
>
> Neville Smythe
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Mon Oct 16 23:03:24 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2023 23:03:24 -0400
Subject: arrayToJSON on lc server
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycN0328t6dynX58mrwU4oht-2aQQEU7vZNZ772CTT3_j4A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <F6C9FD71-71BA-4A02-9CBA-AA7F81E03E43@optusnet.com.au>
 <CADCoycN0328t6dynX58mrwU4oht-2aQQEU7vZNZ772CTT3_j4A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycMfGkWhdGUx2KpAbun8oAQQgeOWSQBq=+Ye7rk0QsPQmg@mail.gmail.com>

let's see: in the public repo, there's the json.lcb source:
https://github.com/livecode/livecode/blob/4606a10ea10b16d5071d0f9f263ccdd7ede8b31d/extensions/libraries/json/json.lcb#L4
also, references to the "fastjson" library:
https://github.com/bhall2001/fastjson

On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 10:49 PM Mike Kerner <MikeKerner at roadrunner.com>
wrote:

> the externalfunctions doesn't seem to be returning anything for a project
> i just opened (never tested it, before). that project has a lot of
> standalone inclusions, some of which have external functions, so i don't
> know if it means externals that are directly attached to the stack (like
> old xcmd's/xfcn's).
> grasping at straws, because i'm not deploying to lc server on linux
> * i assume you manually included mergjson in your standalone (assuming
> you're building your project). if not, try that.
> * have you tried embedding the source from the
> mergJSONLibrary.livecodescript into your main stack and then stepping
> through the code? it's available in the oss repo or any of the forks of
> that repo. that's just the library, not the mergjsonencode external, but it
> might get you closer.
> * if that doesn't work, there are at least two other oss lc json
> codebases, the most popular being mark smith's, which, i think, is what
> monte used when he wrote mergjson.
>
> On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 7:21 PM Neville Smythe via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> I am having a problem with the function arrayToJSON on LC Server 9.6.10
>> pro (Linux host) (I couldn't get it to work on earlier versions either)
>>
>> I get the error
>>
>> Function: error in function handler (arrayToJSON)
>> The mergJSON.so file is in the Externals folder, which resides in the
>> same directory as livecode-server. Since revdb calls work, which I assume
>> use the revdb.so library, evidently Externals are loading, and permissions
>> for mergJSON.so are the same as for revdb.so.
>>
>> This is supposed to work out of the box, so I must be missing something
>> obvious.
>>
>> BTW, the call "the externalFunctions of this stack" return empty - is
>> that correct, should it not return the functions available in the Externals
>> .so libraries?
>>
>> Neville Smythe
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>    and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From derek-lc-list at speedbump.io  Mon Oct 16 23:36:23 2023
From: derek-lc-list at speedbump.io (Derek Bump)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2023 22:36:23 -0500
Subject: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
In-Reply-To: <d1f9f298-bff7-4108-97e0-3d3efda4bbec@fourthworld.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB753347D5EBBD0207247ECE66B2D2A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <d1f9f298-bff7-4108-97e0-3d3efda4bbec@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <89c024d7-607d-4596-96c4-ae48bac1d878@speedbump.io>

Thank you for speaking up, Richard. I could not agree more: deployment 
issues are a critical bottleneck that deserves immediate attention.

Regards,

Derek Bump


On 10/13/23 12:46, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
> We see it here in this list. We see it in the forums. We see it 
> wherever app deployment is discussed:
>
> OS requirements for packaging/stapling/signing apps are onerous.
>
> At the edge of, and sometimes exceeding, being prohibitively so.
>
> There's no point in making a standalone if you can't ship it.
>
> If pro devs with decades of experience struggle with this, newcomers 
> will run screaming.
>
> SIMPLIFYING DEPLOYMENT IS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY.
>
> Pardon the all-caps. I rarely use them. But this is important.
>
> Simplifying deployment is more important than "AI".
> Simplifying deployment is more important than "nocode".
>
> It is the single biggest pain point.
>
> And so it is the single biggest opportunity.


From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Tue Oct 17 11:24:21 2023
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2023 11:24:21 -0400
Subject: arrayToJSON on lc server
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycMfGkWhdGUx2KpAbun8oAQQgeOWSQBq=+Ye7rk0QsPQmg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <F6C9FD71-71BA-4A02-9CBA-AA7F81E03E43@optusnet.com.au>
 <CADCoycN0328t6dynX58mrwU4oht-2aQQEU7vZNZ772CTT3_j4A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADCoycMfGkWhdGUx2KpAbun8oAQQgeOWSQBq=+Ye7rk0QsPQmg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002b01da010e$04cc03a0$0e640ae0$@net>

I've been using fastJson. I do a "start using" to include it as a library. To date I have not had any problems encoding an LC array to JSON and decoding it to a JavaScript array on the client browser.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2023 11:03 PM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Mike Kerner
Subject: Re: arrayToJSON on lc server

let's see: in the public repo, there's the json.lcb source:
https://github.com/livecode/livecode/blob/4606a10ea10b16d5071d0f9f263ccdd7ede8b31d/extensions/libraries/json/json.lcb#L4
also, references to the "fastjson" library:
https://github.com/bhall2001/fastjson

On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 10:49 PM Mike Kerner <MikeKerner at roadrunner.com>
wrote:

> the externalfunctions doesn't seem to be returning anything for a 
> project i just opened (never tested it, before). that project has a 
> lot of standalone inclusions, some of which have external functions, 
> so i don't know if it means externals that are directly attached to 
> the stack (like old xcmd's/xfcn's).
> grasping at straws, because i'm not deploying to lc server on linux
> * i assume you manually included mergjson in your standalone (assuming 
> you're building your project). if not, try that.
> * have you tried embedding the source from the 
> mergJSONLibrary.livecodescript into your main stack and then stepping 
> through the code? it's available in the oss repo or any of the forks 
> of that repo. that's just the library, not the mergjsonencode 
> external, but it might get you closer.
> * if that doesn't work, there are at least two other oss lc json 
> codebases, the most popular being mark smith's, which, i think, is 
> what monte used when he wrote mergjson.
>
> On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 7:21 PM Neville Smythe via use-livecode < 
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> I am having a problem with the function arrayToJSON on LC Server 
>> 9.6.10 pro (Linux host) (I couldn't get it to work on earlier 
>> versions either)
>>
>> I get the error
>>
>> Function: error in function handler (arrayToJSON) The mergJSON.so 
>> file is in the Externals folder, which resides in the same directory 
>> as livecode-server. Since revdb calls work, which I assume use the 
>> revdb.so library, evidently Externals are loading, and permissions 
>> for mergJSON.so are the same as for revdb.so.
>>
>> This is supposed to work out of the box, so I must be missing 
>> something obvious.
>>
>> BTW, the call "the externalFunctions of this stack" return empty - is 
>> that correct, should it not return the functions available in the 
>> Externals .so libraries?
>>
>> Neville Smythe
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second 
> day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>    and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
>


--
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From bvlahos at mac.com  Tue Oct 17 13:37:22 2023
From: bvlahos at mac.com (Bill Vlahos)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2023 10:37:22 -0700
Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <FDC45705-7594-4294-9851-564E60F2031F@livecode.com>
References: <mailman.1.1696089601.89108.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <B4839189-B0EC-4D3F-AB4B-2C04F0EB0563@uzh.ch>
 <8B04CB3A-EE65-4346-BC42-B5A10E599003@livecode.com>
 <05A7E909-CE87-47A0-B288-ADEB8F18643C@m-r-d.de>
 <EF774AE9-5843-455E-87D7-1A0D50AEEA31@livecode.com>
 <20EC1E2E-1619-4F1D-AA81-0907042C6357@mac.com>
 <252DBA11-1A8B-41E3-93DA-DC2ED08A7274@livecode.com>
 <SJ0PR02MB753347D5EBBD0207247ECE66B2D2A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <9C6A780E-CFD1-41F7-AE6D-623BC6587153@m-r-d.de>
 <FDC45705-7594-4294-9851-564E60F2031F@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <4A3F8845-9136-4F8F-9131-A502A268F011@mac.com>

Heather,

I appreciate your answer.

Thank you,
Bill Vlahos

> On Oct 16, 2023, at 3:31 AM, Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Yes, that was the question I was answering.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On 13 Oct 2023, at 18:58, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Yes that is definitely the case.
>> 
>> But Bill asked if Apple will "fix that in Sonoma" so his old standalones will still work under Sonoma without building them again with 9.6.10 or 10.0.6. At least that was my understanding. ;) 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> Am 13.10.2023 um 18:32 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> Heather, just to be clear, I was under the implression that 9.6.10 and 10.0.6 WAS the fix for this. 
>>> 
>>> Bob S
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> On Behalf Of Heather Laine via use-livecode
>>> Sent: Friday, October 13, 2023 1:37 AM
>>> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
>>> Cc: Heather Laine <heather at livecode.com>
>>> Subject: Re: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
>>> 
>>> I don't think you can hope for that. It's not a bug, its a change in the way they are implementing menus.
>>> 
>>> Best Regards,
>>> 
>>> Heather
>>> 
>>> Heather Laine
>>> Customer Services Manager
>>> LiveCode Ltd
>>> www.livecode.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Oct 17 20:11:43 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2023 19:11:43 -0500
Subject: OS X document icon missing
Message-ID: <758bcdba-ecf9-4477-9fbd-f81e966e6808@hyperactivesw.com>

How do I force Finder to show a custom document icon? I've created .icns files for both the app 
and its documents. I entered a custom extension in standalone settings. In a built standalone 
the app icon appears normally but an associated stack document has only a generic blank icon.

I used Get Info to set the document stacks to always open with my app (and it does) but the 
icon still does not appear. The plist does contain the correct icon info and both .icns files 
are present in the app's Contents/Resources/ folder.

It looks like a Finder problem but relaunching Finder didn't fix it. Ideas?

LC 9.6.10.
-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From rabit at revigniter.com  Wed Oct 18 10:02:37 2023
From: rabit at revigniter.com (Ralf Bitter)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2023 16:02:37 +0200
Subject: Universal buttons: bugs or feature
In-Reply-To: <A9780204-4439-4CD1-B5E6-31E254BCF984@gmail.com>
References: <A9780204-4439-4CD1-B5E6-31E254BCF984@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <04595ac7-76d5-a9fa-2986-6ab1ea9b5648@revigniter.com>

These issues are fixed in the latest release version 1.4.0.


Ralf



On 15.10.2023 21:23, Mark Smith via use-livecode wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> Recently I decided to try out a number of different button styles to see which ones I liked best, and I ran across some odd behaviour with Universal buttons. First, there does not appear to be any style difference between an enabled universal button and a disabled one. With all other button styles there is a noticeable difference between the enabled and disabled versions. More importantly (perhaps) with all other button types if you depress the mouse over the button then move the mouse off the button and release it it does not fire the button. With universal buttons if you move a depressed mouse off the button and then release it the button fires. And this behaviour does not appear to conform to Apples user interface guidelines "The mousedown event is fired at an Element when a pointing device button is pressed while the pointer is inside the element.
> 
> Are these differences in the Universal button deliberate features or bugs? If features, why so?
> 
> Thanks
> Mark
> 


From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Wed Oct 18 10:34:21 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2023 15:34:21 +0100
Subject: Universal buttons: bugs or feature
In-Reply-To: <04595ac7-76d5-a9fa-2986-6ab1ea9b5648@revigniter.com>
References: <A9780204-4439-4CD1-B5E6-31E254BCF984@gmail.com>
 <04595ac7-76d5-a9fa-2986-6ab1ea9b5648@revigniter.com>
Message-ID: <8D50C7C7-61FE-4B0C-9AD5-01A42392E8B8@gmail.com>

Thanks Ralf.

> On 18 Oct 2023, at 3:02 pm, Ralf Bitter <rabit at revigniter.com> wrote:
> 
> These issues are fixed in the latest release version 1.4.0.
> 
> 
> Ralf
> 
> 
> 
> On 15.10.2023 21:23, Mark Smith via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hello all,
>> Recently I decided to try out a number of different button styles to see which ones I liked best, and I ran across some odd behaviour with “Universal” buttons. First, there does not appear to be any style difference between an enabled universal button and a disabled one. With all other button styles there is a noticeable difference between the enabled and disabled versions. More importantly (perhaps) with all other button types if you depress the mouse over the button then move the mouse off the button and release it it does not fire the button. With universal buttons if you move a depressed mouse off the button and then release it the button fires. And this behaviour does not appear to conform to Apple’s user interface guidelines "The mousedown event is fired at an Element when a pointing device button is pressed while the pointer is inside the element.”
>> Are these differences in the Universal button deliberate features or bugs? If features, why so?
>> Thanks
>> Mark



From paul at researchware.com  Wed Oct 18 11:35:40 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2023 11:35:40 -0400
Subject: OS X document icon missing
In-Reply-To: <758bcdba-ecf9-4477-9fbd-f81e966e6808@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <758bcdba-ecf9-4477-9fbd-f81e966e6808@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <e2e592e8-d95a-492d-a4c1-34c4ecb32a68@researchware.com>

On 10/17/2023 8:11 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
> How do I force Finder to show a custom document icon? I've created 
> .icns files for both the app and its documents. I entered a custom 
> extension in standalone settings. In a built standalone the app icon 
> appears normally but an associated stack document has only a generic 
> blank icon.
>
> I used Get Info to set the document stacks to always open with my app 
> (and it does) but the icon still does not appear. The plist does 
> contain the correct icon info and both .icns files are present in the 
> app's Contents/Resources/ folder.
>
> It looks like a Finder problem but relaunching Finder didn't fix it. 
> Ideas?
>
> LC 9.6.10.

I don't think this is related to the problem (above) you have. If you 
have identified the document extension in the Standalone setting for 
macOS and set an ics file of icons (or the appropriate sizes required by 
Apple) than documents created by that app should display the icon. I'd 
double check that the Docunmet extension and Document Type (if you're 
using Types) in the setting match what the file is actually using. I've 
had an extra character (sometime a space which is hard to see) in the 
past that took me a bit to figure it out.

Unrelated, if you ever need more than one document type, below is some 
code I run 'on standaloneSaved' to modify the plist to add additional 
document types and icon sets to my macOS app.

     put tMac64BuildFolder&tAppName&".app/Contents/Info.plist" into 
tSrcFile -- overwrite original
     --
     if there is a file tSrcFile then
       put revXMLCreateTreeFromFile(tSrcFile,true,true,false) into tTreeID
       if tTreeID begins with "xmlerr" then
         answer error "<p>Error reading XML plist file for updating 
document types during build.</p><p>"&tTreeID&"</p>"
       else
         -- list of document types <name>,<icon file><extension>,<type 
code><cr>
         put "HyperRESEARCH Study,StandaloneDoc.icns,hs2,HRs2"&cr into 
tDocTypes
         put "HyperRESEARCH Tools,StandaloneTool.icns,rwtl,RWTL"&cr 
after tDocTypes
         put "HyperRESEARCH Study Package,StandalonePackage.icns,hsz,HSZ 
"&cr after tDocTypes
         put "HyperRESEARCH Study 
Package,StandalonePackage.icns,hs4z,HS4Z" after tDocTypes
         -- XML template
         put 
"<dict>"&cr&"<key>CFBundleTypeExtensions</key>"&cr&"<array>"&cr&"<string>[[tExtension]]</string>"&cr&"</array>"&cr 
into tXMLTemplate
         put 
"<key>CFBundleTypeIconFile</key>"&cr&"<string>[[tIconFile]]</string>"&cr&"<key>CFBundleTypeName</key>"&cr 
after tXMLTemplate
         put 
"<string>[[tDocName]]</string>"&cr&"<key>CFBundleTypeOSTypes</key>"&cr&"<array>"&cr&"<string>[[tTypeCode]]</string>"&cr 
after tXMLTemplate
         put 
"</array>"&cr&"<key>CFBundleTypeRole</key>"&cr&"<string>Editor</string>"&cr&"</dict>"&cr 
after tXMLTemplate
         -- add document types under parent <plist><dict><array> at end
         repeat for each line tDocType in tDocTypes
           put item 1 of tDocType into tDocName
           put item 2 of tDocType into tIconFile
           put item 3 of tDocType into tExtension
           put item 4 of tDocType into tTypeCode
           put merge(tXMLTemplate) into tNodeContents
           revXMLAppend tTreeID, "/plist/dict/array",tNodeContents
         end repeat
         -- output updated plist
         get empty -- clear 'it' for any possible error from revXMLText 
that places the error in 'it'
         put revXMLText(tTreeID,,true) into tXMLText
         if it is not empty then
           answer error "<p>Error writing updated XML plist 
file.</p><p>"&it&"</p>"
         end if
         put uniDecode(uniEncode(tXMLText),"UTF8") into URL 
("file:"&tSrcFile)
       end if
     end if



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Oct 18 13:11:03 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2023 12:11:03 -0500
Subject: OS X document icon missing
In-Reply-To: <e2e592e8-d95a-492d-a4c1-34c4ecb32a68@researchware.com>
References: <758bcdba-ecf9-4477-9fbd-f81e966e6808@hyperactivesw.com>
 <e2e592e8-d95a-492d-a4c1-34c4ecb32a68@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <18b43c4f070.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

You may have identified the problem. The original HC stack was ported to  
LC and the client used the free OSS version of LC to access it. Sonoma, of 
course, broke that. This is the recipe stack that I posted here, with 
permission, 2 years ago. He's not a developer and didn't want to pay a 
subscription for the single stack he uses daily. He's been collecting 
recipes for 30 years.

So I made him a quick splash app that would let him access the stack. Since 
the original was created and opened with LC I think changing the extension 
isn't working. I've been looking up ways to clear the icon cache. I'll try 
a few things.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On October 18, 2023 10:37:56 AM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>
>
> I don't think this is related to the problem (above) you have. If you
> have identified the document extension in the Standalone setting for
> macOS and set an ics file of icons (or the appropriate sizes required by
> Apple) than documents created by that app should display the icon. I'd
> double check that the Docunmet extension and Document Type (if you're
> using Types) in the setting match what the file is actually using. I've
> had an extra character (sometime a space which is hard to see) in the
> past that took me a bit to figure it out.
>
> Unrelated, if you ever need more than one document type, below is some
> code I run 'on standaloneSaved' to modify the plist to add additional
> document types and icon sets to my macOS app.
>
>     put tMac64BuildFolder&tAppName&".app/Contents/Info.plist" into
> tSrcFile -- overwrite original
>     --
>     if there is a file tSrcFile then
>       put revXMLCreateTreeFromFile(tSrcFile,true,true,false) into tTreeID
>       if tTreeID begins with "xmlerr" then
>         answer error "<p>Error reading XML plist file for updating
> document types during build.</p><p>"&tTreeID&"</p>"
>       else
>         -- list of document types <name>,<icon file><extension>,<type
> code><cr>
>         put "HyperRESEARCH Study,StandaloneDoc.icns,hs2,HRs2"&cr into
> tDocTypes
>         put "HyperRESEARCH Tools,StandaloneTool.icns,rwtl,RWTL"&cr
> after tDocTypes
>         put "HyperRESEARCH Study Package,StandalonePackage.icns,hsz,HSZ
> "&cr after tDocTypes
>         put "HyperRESEARCH Study
> Package,StandalonePackage.icns,hs4z,HS4Z" after tDocTypes
>         -- XML template
>         put
> "<dict>"&cr&"<key>CFBundleTypeExtensions</key>"&cr&"<array>"&cr&"<string>[[tExtension]]</string>"&cr&"</array>"&cr
> into tXMLTemplate
>         put
> "<key>CFBundleTypeIconFile</key>"&cr&"<string>[[tIconFile]]</string>"&cr&"<key>CFBundleTypeName</key>"&cr
> after tXMLTemplate
>         put
> "<string>[[tDocName]]</string>"&cr&"<key>CFBundleTypeOSTypes</key>"&cr&"<array>"&cr&"<string>[[tTypeCode]]</string>"&cr
> after tXMLTemplate
>         put
> "</array>"&cr&"<key>CFBundleTypeRole</key>"&cr&"<string>Editor</string>"&cr&"</dict>"&cr
> after tXMLTemplate
>         -- add document types under parent <plist><dict><array> at end
>         repeat for each line tDocType in tDocTypes
>           put item 1 of tDocType into tDocName
>           put item 2 of tDocType into tIconFile
>           put item 3 of tDocType into tExtension
>           put item 4 of tDocType into tTypeCode
>           put merge(tXMLTemplate) into tNodeContents
>           revXMLAppend tTreeID, "/plist/dict/array",tNodeContents
>         end repeat
>         -- output updated plist
>         get empty -- clear 'it' for any possible error from revXMLText
> that places the error in 'it'
>         put revXMLText(tTreeID,,true) into tXMLText
>         if it is not empty then
>           answer error "<p>Error writing updated XML plist
> file.</p><p>"&it&"</p>"
>         end if
>         put uniDecode(uniEncode(tXMLText),"UTF8") into URL
> ("file:"&tSrcFile)
>       end if
>     end if
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Oct 18 15:54:24 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2023 14:54:24 -0500
Subject: OS X document icon missing
In-Reply-To: <e2e592e8-d95a-492d-a4c1-34c4ecb32a68@researchware.com>
References: <758bcdba-ecf9-4477-9fbd-f81e966e6808@hyperactivesw.com>
 <e2e592e8-d95a-492d-a4c1-34c4ecb32a68@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <896476c5-3818-4b4b-82fc-c968a3757cd6@hyperactivesw.com>

On 10/18/23 10:35 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
> If you have identified the document extension in the Standalone setting for macOS and set an 
> ics file of icons (or the appropriate sizes required by Apple) than documents created by that 
> app should display the icon.

No go. Here is the relevant part of the plist:

<key>CFBundleDocumentTypes</key>
	<array>
		<dict>
			<key>CFBundleTypeExtensions</key>
			<array>
<string>.rbox</string>
			</array>
			<key>CFBundleTypeIconFile</key>
			<string>StandaloneDoc.icns</string>
			<key>CFBundleTypeName</key>
<string>Recipe Box Files</string>
			<key>CFBundleTypeOSTypes</key>
			<array>
<string>rbox</string>
			</array>
			<key>CFBundleTypeRole</key>
			<string>Editor</string>
		</dict>
	</array>


The app does not create new files, it just opens the existing stack, originally a LC file. I 
tried a "save as..." but that didn't work either. Is there a way to set the signature on an 
existing file? I did try and the stack wouldn't open, presumably it's corrupted.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From paul at researchware.com  Wed Oct 18 16:59:04 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2023 16:59:04 -0400
Subject: OS X document icon missing
In-Reply-To: <896476c5-3818-4b4b-82fc-c968a3757cd6@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <758bcdba-ecf9-4477-9fbd-f81e966e6808@hyperactivesw.com>
 <e2e592e8-d95a-492d-a4c1-34c4ecb32a68@researchware.com>
 <896476c5-3818-4b4b-82fc-c968a3757cd6@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <286e9bf7-0102-446f-b576-ca4197a33fcc@researchware.com>

Yes, that look right. The file extension is .rbox and the file type is 
'rbox' for 'Recipe Box Files'

I wonder since it only READS .rbox files and does not create them, if 
you need to context-click (CTRL-CLICK) on a .rbox file and select "Open 
With.." to see if your app (an reader of .rbox files) is in the list and 
open one to get macOS to associate viewing .rbox files with your App, 
since it does not actually create .rbox files?


On 10/18/2023 3:54 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
> On 10/18/23 10:35 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
>> If you have identified the document extension in the Standalone 
>> setting for macOS and set an ics file of icons (or the appropriate 
>> sizes required by Apple) than documents created by that app should 
>> display the icon.
>
> No go. Here is the relevant part of the plist:
>
> <key>CFBundleDocumentTypes</key>
>     <array>
>         <dict>
>             <key>CFBundleTypeExtensions</key>
>             <array>
> <string>.rbox</string>
>             </array>
>             <key>CFBundleTypeIconFile</key>
>             <string>StandaloneDoc.icns</string>
>             <key>CFBundleTypeName</key>
> <string>Recipe Box Files</string>
>             <key>CFBundleTypeOSTypes</key>
>             <array>
> <string>rbox</string>
>             </array>
>             <key>CFBundleTypeRole</key>
>             <string>Editor</string>
>         </dict>
>     </array>
>
>
> The app does not create new files, it just opens the existing stack, 
> originally a LC file. I tried a "save as..." but that didn't work 
> either. Is there a way to set the signature on an existing file? I did 
> try and the stack wouldn't open, presumably it's corrupted.
>



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Oct 18 18:18:03 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2023 17:18:03 -0500
Subject: OS X document icon missing
In-Reply-To: <286e9bf7-0102-446f-b576-ca4197a33fcc@researchware.com>
References: <758bcdba-ecf9-4477-9fbd-f81e966e6808@hyperactivesw.com>
 <e2e592e8-d95a-492d-a4c1-34c4ecb32a68@researchware.com>
 <896476c5-3818-4b4b-82fc-c968a3757cd6@hyperactivesw.com>
 <286e9bf7-0102-446f-b576-ca4197a33fcc@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <709627b9-929e-4dbf-9bef-12d82464613b@hyperactivesw.com>

My app is not in the "Open With..." list. I used "Other" to open the stack with my app. It 
worked but the document icon still did not show up in Finder.

My client says he double-clicks the Recipes stack to open LC (it's the only stack he has.) Once 
I assigned my standalone in Get Info it does work and Finder suggests it (and only it) when I 
choose "Open with...", but the document icon is still missing. Blech.

What I learned today: If your stack has a custom extension, LC will open it and you can do some 
basic things like navigation, but nothing else. Keyboard shortcuts don't work and the message 
box does not see the stack at all. Even if I do something non-stack-related ("put the 
fontnames") there is no response. The message box is totally broken. Double-clicking a control 
does not open the property inspector. Right-clicking with the Edit tool does not show a menu. 
When I changed the extension back to ".livecode" and restarted LC all works normally. Tested in 
9.6.9 and LC 9.6.10.

Double blech.

On 10/18/23 3:59 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
> Yes, that look right. The file extension is .rbox and the file type is 'rbox' for 'Recipe Box 
> Files'
> 
> I wonder since it only READS .rbox files and does not create them, if you need to context-click 
> (CTRL-CLICK) on a .rbox file and select "Open With.." to see if your app (an reader of .rbox 
> files) is in the list and open one to get macOS to associate viewing .rbox files with your App, 
> since it does not actually create .rbox files?
> 
> 
> On 10/18/2023 3:54 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
>> On 10/18/23 10:35 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
>>> If you have identified the document extension in the Standalone setting for macOS and set an 
>>> ics file of icons (or the appropriate sizes required by Apple) than documents created by 
>>> that app should display the icon.
>>
>> No go. Here is the relevant part of the plist:
>>
>> <key>CFBundleDocumentTypes</key>
>>     <array>
>>         <dict>
>>             <key>CFBundleTypeExtensions</key>
>>             <array>
>> <string>.rbox</string>
>>             </array>
>>             <key>CFBundleTypeIconFile</key>
>>             <string>StandaloneDoc.icns</string>
>>             <key>CFBundleTypeName</key>
>> <string>Recipe Box Files</string>
>>             <key>CFBundleTypeOSTypes</key>
>>             <array>
>> <string>rbox</string>
>>             </array>
>>             <key>CFBundleTypeRole</key>
>>             <string>Editor</string>
>>         </dict>
>>     </array>
>>
>>
>> The app does not create new files, it just opens the existing stack, originally a LC file. I 
>> tried a "save as..." but that didn't work either. Is there a way to set the signature on an 
>> existing file? I did try and the stack wouldn't open, presumably it's corrupted.
>>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From mark at livecode.com  Thu Oct 19 04:29:47 2023
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2023 09:29:47 +0100
Subject: OS X document icon missing
In-Reply-To: <896476c5-3818-4b4b-82fc-c968a3757cd6@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <758bcdba-ecf9-4477-9fbd-f81e966e6808@hyperactivesw.com>
 <e2e592e8-d95a-492d-a4c1-34c4ecb32a68@researchware.com>
 <896476c5-3818-4b4b-82fc-c968a3757cd6@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <0036db9f9ae533f16851c1f884eda372@livecode.com>

On 2023-10-18 20:54, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
> On 10/18/23 10:35 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
>> If you have identified the document extension in the Standalone 
>> setting for macOS and set an ics file of icons (or the appropriate 
>> sizes required by Apple) than documents created by that app should 
>> display the icon.
> 
> No go. Here is the relevant part of the plist:
> 
> <key>CFBundleDocumentTypes</key>
> 	<array>
> 		<dict>
> 			<key>CFBundleTypeExtensions</key>
> 			<array>
> <string>.rbox</string>
> 			</array>

The extension shouldn't have an initial `.` - I suspect that is the 
problem :)

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things


From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Oct 19 05:03:47 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2023 11:03:47 +0200
Subject: Google new API 33 requirements
Message-ID: <020B1F0E-405A-465C-828F-04B3225DA11A@major-k.de>

Hi friends,

I installed the build tools for API 33 and created an update
for my app.

In the STAB I selected : Minimum Android Version -> 8.0
and uploaded the app to Google.

Now I read in the Google Play Console this for my app:
...
API Level 26+
Target-SDK 33
...
However Google still shows me that my app is targeted to
Android Version 12 API 31!? 
Not sure if they mean the previous version I wanted to update?

Does that mean I have to select -> 13 (API 33) as the 
Minimum Android Version in the STAB?

If yes, is the app then still backwards-compatible with older 
devices/android versions? My tablet has Android version 8.0 installed.

Thanks for any hints!


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From merakosp at gmail.com  Thu Oct 19 05:42:55 2023
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2023 12:42:55 +0300
Subject: Google new API 33 requirements
In-Reply-To: <020B1F0E-405A-465C-828F-04B3225DA11A@major-k.de>
References: <020B1F0E-405A-465C-828F-04B3225DA11A@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq8jwKwkeHcP6R+KmXax810Ap+an1z3EB=XtoGCPt=waJg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Klaus,

*>>>>>Does that mean I have to select -> 13 (API 33) as the *
*Minimum Android Version in the STAB?*

Nope, if you select "13 (API 33)" in the android standalone application
settings it means your app will run only on devices that run Android 13+.

Regarding the warning/error you get from the Play Store - where (in which
track) did you upload your new build? Was it in the Production track, or in
any of the (Internal/External) Testing tracks?

Could you post a screenshot of the exact warning/error you get?

Also, I take it you used LiveCode 9.6.10 or 10.0.0 DP-6 to build the app,
since these versions build against API 33 - is that correct?

Moreover, note that you do not need the "SDK Build tools v33" - you need
"SDK Platform API 33". These are two different things. The version of the
SDK Build tools that are installed must be 31.0.0. I believe you have the
correct versions installed anyway, but I just mention it again to prevent
confusion :)

KInd regards,
Panos
--

On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 at 12:04, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi friends,
>
> I installed the build tools for API 33 and created an update
> for my app.
>
> In the STAB I selected : Minimum Android Version -> 8.0
> and uploaded the app to Google.
>
> Now I read in the Google Play Console this for my app:
> ...
> API Level 26+
> Target-SDK 33
> ...
> However Google still shows me that my app is targeted to
> Android Version 12 API 31!?
> Not sure if they mean the previous version I wanted to update?
>
> Does that mean I have to select -> 13 (API 33) as the
> Minimum Android Version in the STAB?
>
> If yes, is the app then still backwards-compatible with older
> devices/android versions? My tablet has Android version 8.0 installed.
>
> Thanks for any hints!
>
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Oct 19 05:56:49 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2023 11:56:49 +0200
Subject: Google new API 33 requirements
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq8jwKwkeHcP6R+KmXax810Ap+an1z3EB=XtoGCPt=waJg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <020B1F0E-405A-465C-828F-04B3225DA11A@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq8jwKwkeHcP6R+KmXax810Ap+an1z3EB=XtoGCPt=waJg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <384ABEDA-724D-420F-ABD6-CD8D7B0FA4D6@major-k.de>

Hi Panos,

> Am 19.10.2023 um 11:42 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hello Klaus,
> 
> *>>>>>Does that mean I have to select -> 13 (API 33) as the *
> *Minimum Android Version in the STAB?*
> 
> Nope, if you select "13 (API 33)" in the android standalone application
> settings it means your app will run only on devices that run Android 13+.

ah, thanks for confirmation.

> Regarding the warning/error you get from the Play Store - where (in which
> track) did you upload your new build? Was it in the Production track, or in
> any of the (Internal/External) Testing tracks?

My update is currently "in examination" in the Production track.
So I think that was more a general warning regarding my initial app.

Now I have to wait for the result of the examination.

> Could you post a screenshot of the exact warning/error you get?

See above...

> Also, I take it you used LiveCode 9.6.10 or 10.0.0 DP-6 to build the app,
> since these versions build against API 33 - is that correct?

Yes LC 9.6.10.

> Moreover, note that you do not need the "SDK Build tools v33" - you need
> "SDK Platform API 33". These are two different things. The version of the
> SDK Build tools that are installed must be 31.0.0. I believe you have the
> correct versions installed anyway, but I just mention it again to prevent
> confusion :)

Just checked what is checked in Android Studio:
SDK platform -> Android Tiramisu (Tiramisu) -> API Level 33
SDK Tools -> Android SDL Build-Tools 31.0.0
Check! :-)

Thank you for the quick answer!

> KInd regards,
> Panos

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From merakosp at gmail.com  Thu Oct 19 06:08:54 2023
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2023 13:08:54 +0300
Subject: Google new API 33 requirements
In-Reply-To: <384ABEDA-724D-420F-ABD6-CD8D7B0FA4D6@major-k.de>
References: <020B1F0E-405A-465C-828F-04B3225DA11A@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq8jwKwkeHcP6R+KmXax810Ap+an1z3EB=XtoGCPt=waJg@mail.gmail.com>
 <384ABEDA-724D-420F-ABD6-CD8D7B0FA4D6@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq8LtkcJpx3zh-n6+1fDao+uSXkMkAZhq665+vMA0TMTvQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Klaus,

Thank you for the update.

>>>>*So I think that was more a general warning regarding my initial app.*
 Ah, that should be it!

Cheers,
Panos

On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 at 12:57, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Panos,
>
> > Am 19.10.2023 um 11:42 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> >
> > Hello Klaus,
> >
> > *>>>>>Does that mean I have to select -> 13 (API 33) as the *
> > *Minimum Android Version in the STAB?*
> >
> > Nope, if you select "13 (API 33)" in the android standalone application
> > settings it means your app will run only on devices that run Android 13+.
>
> ah, thanks for confirmation.
>
> > Regarding the warning/error you get from the Play Store - where (in which
> > track) did you upload your new build? Was it in the Production track, or
> in
> > any of the (Internal/External) Testing tracks?
>
> My update is currently "in examination" in the Production track.
> So I think that was more a general warning regarding my initial app.
>
> Now I have to wait for the result of the examination.
>
> > Could you post a screenshot of the exact warning/error you get?
>
> See above...
>
> > Also, I take it you used LiveCode 9.6.10 or 10.0.0 DP-6 to build the app,
> > since these versions build against API 33 - is that correct?
>
> Yes LC 9.6.10.
>
> > Moreover, note that you do not need the "SDK Build tools v33" - you need
> > "SDK Platform API 33". These are two different things. The version of the
> > SDK Build tools that are installed must be 31.0.0. I believe you have the
> > correct versions installed anyway, but I just mention it again to prevent
> > confusion :)
>
> Just checked what is checked in Android Studio:
> SDK platform -> Android Tiramisu (Tiramisu) -> API Level 33
> SDK Tools -> Android SDL Build-Tools 31.0.0
> Check! :-)
>
> Thank you for the quick answer!
>
> > KInd regards,
> > Panos
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
>
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Oct 19 12:11:43 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2023 11:11:43 -0500
Subject: OS X document icon missing
In-Reply-To: <0036db9f9ae533f16851c1f884eda372@livecode.com>
References: <758bcdba-ecf9-4477-9fbd-f81e966e6808@hyperactivesw.com>
 <e2e592e8-d95a-492d-a4c1-34c4ecb32a68@researchware.com>
 <896476c5-3818-4b4b-82fc-c968a3757cd6@hyperactivesw.com>
 <0036db9f9ae533f16851c1f884eda372@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <18b48b4fe18.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

OMG. I didn't even see that! It's my eyes, they're terrible, and getting 
worse as years go by. Thanks for the proofreading. Those little dots are 
the worst.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On October 19, 2023 3:31:18 AM Mark Waddingham via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On 2023-10-18 20:54, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
>> On 10/18/23 10:35 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
>>> If you have identified the document extension in the Standalone
>>> setting for macOS and set an ics file of icons (or the appropriate
>>> sizes required by Apple) than documents created by that app should
>>> display the icon.
>>
>> No go. Here is the relevant part of the plist:
>>
>> <key>CFBundleDocumentTypes</key>
>> 	<array>
>> 		<dict>
>> 			<key>CFBundleTypeExtensions</key>
>> 			<array>
>> <string>.rbox</string>
>> 			</array>
>
> The extension shouldn't have an initial `.` - I suspect that is the
> problem :)
>
> Warmest Regards,
>
> Mark.
>
> --
> Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Build Amazing Things
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Oct 19 17:37:16 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2023 16:37:16 -0500
Subject: OS X document icon missing
In-Reply-To: <0036db9f9ae533f16851c1f884eda372@livecode.com>
References: <758bcdba-ecf9-4477-9fbd-f81e966e6808@hyperactivesw.com>
 <e2e592e8-d95a-492d-a4c1-34c4ecb32a68@researchware.com>
 <896476c5-3818-4b4b-82fc-c968a3757cd6@hyperactivesw.com>
 <0036db9f9ae533f16851c1f884eda372@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <704b342a-df72-4342-af40-2d92e0f8953b@hyperactivesw.com>

On 10/19/23 3:29 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:
> The extension shouldn't have an initial `.` - I suspect that is the problem :)

That was it. I had to "Get Info" on the file before Finder noticed, but then the icon showed 
up. I didn't even know the dot was there; I knew it shouldn't be.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From paul at researchware.com  Thu Oct 19 18:40:02 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2023 18:40:02 -0400
Subject: OS X document icon missing
In-Reply-To: <704b342a-df72-4342-af40-2d92e0f8953b@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <758bcdba-ecf9-4477-9fbd-f81e966e6808@hyperactivesw.com>
 <e2e592e8-d95a-492d-a4c1-34c4ecb32a68@researchware.com>
 <896476c5-3818-4b4b-82fc-c968a3757cd6@hyperactivesw.com>
 <0036db9f9ae533f16851c1f884eda372@livecode.com>
 <704b342a-df72-4342-af40-2d92e0f8953b@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <258e65ad-2d9f-4f9f-a2a1-b2dcf49531cb@researchware.com>

On 10/19/2023 5:37 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
> On 10/19/23 3:29 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:
>> The extension shouldn't have an initial `.` - I suspect that is the 
>> problem :)
>
> That was it. I had to "Get Info" on the file before Finder noticed, 
> but then the icon showed up. I didn't even know the dot was there; I 
> knew it shouldn't be.
>

I someone who write a commercial software tool for researchers, I fully 
realize that a software vendor can not complete protect users from 
themselves. That said, a small Livecode enhancement might be a check if 
the file extension field starts with a . and either just remove it or 
warn the user :-)


From david.bovill at gmail.com  Fri Oct 20 11:08:46 2023
From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2023 16:08:46 +0100
Subject: Mdiai Keys - volume / play/pause/next...
Message-ID: <CAGASioOBRn=eZG36whjurpzgRp4zKL1ZUkMZG9zhF54tt_gfoA@mail.gmail.com>

Is there a way to trap for these keyboard events.

Volume and Media Keys: In the HID standard, volume and media control keys
often have specific usage IDs. For example:


   - 0xE9 is for volume up.
   - 0xEA is for volume down.
   - 0xE2 is for mute.
   - 0xCD is for play/pauseetc

From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Oct 20 18:37:19 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2023 22:37:19 +0000
Subject: Livecode Debugger
Message-ID: <8B2F35CA-CE80-4F3B-AC5B-682C0D08F63F@iotecdigital.com>

Hi all. 

I am now getting the dreaded Livecode Debugger code error and the stack is password protected. This is when launching a stack in LC 9.6.10 rc1. I would love to troubleshoot this as no one should be getting an error in a stack provided by RunRev. I just need the password. This is probably an unreasonable request, but if someone knows that password, I want to unlock the stack and see where it’s going bad. 

Bob S


From david.bovill at gmail.com  Fri Oct 20 18:39:57 2023
From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2023 23:39:57 +0100
Subject: Media Keys - volume / play/pause/next...
In-Reply-To: <CAGASioOBRn=eZG36whjurpzgRp4zKL1ZUkMZG9zhF54tt_gfoA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGASioOBRn=eZG36whjurpzgRp4zKL1ZUkMZG9zhF54tt_gfoA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGASioP9s-oUAw2ggqTGgs8oOASo-oN8aci8MiRkWMs5y19Dfg@mail.gmail.com>

Surprisingly difficult. There are a couple of apps that let you customize
play/pause interactions from the keyboard - but they dont work when sent
from other devices such as earbuds. Livecode does not seem to read these
events either....

On Fri, 20 Oct 2023 at 16:08, David Bovill <david.bovill at gmail.com> wrote:

> Is there a way to trap for these keyboard events.
>
> Volume and Media Keys: In the HID standard, volume and media control keys
> often have specific usage IDs. For example:
>
>
>    - 0xE9 is for volume up.
>    - 0xEA is for volume down.
>    - 0xE2 is for mute.
>    - 0xCD is for play/pauseetc
>
>

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Oct 20 19:41:53 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2023 18:41:53 -0500
Subject: Media Keys - volume / play/pause/next...
In-Reply-To: <CAGASioP9s-oUAw2ggqTGgs8oOASo-oN8aci8MiRkWMs5y19Dfg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGASioOBRn=eZG36whjurpzgRp4zKL1ZUkMZG9zhF54tt_gfoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGASioP9s-oUAw2ggqTGgs8oOASo-oN8aci8MiRkWMs5y19Dfg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <18b4f777de8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

If rawKeyDown/Up doesn't catch them then I assume the OS isn't sending the 
keycodes to apps.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On October 20, 2023 5:42:05 PM David Bovill via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Surprisingly difficult. There are a couple of apps that let you customize
> play/pause interactions from the keyboard - but they dont work when sent
> from other devices such as earbuds. Livecode does not seem to read these
> events either....
>
> On Fri, 20 Oct 2023 at 16:08, David Bovill <david.bovill at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Is there a way to trap for these keyboard events.
>>
>> Volume and Media Keys: In the HID standard, volume and media control keys
>> often have specific usage IDs. For example:
>>
>>
>>    - 0xE9 is for volume up.
>>    - 0xEA is for volume down.
>>    - 0xE2 is for mute.
>>    - 0xCD is for play/pauseetc
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From paul at researchware.com  Fri Oct 20 21:04:23 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2023 21:04:23 -0400
Subject: Mdiai Keys - volume / play/pause/next...
In-Reply-To: <CAGASioOBRn=eZG36whjurpzgRp4zKL1ZUkMZG9zhF54tt_gfoA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGASioOBRn=eZG36whjurpzgRp4zKL1ZUkMZG9zhF54tt_gfoA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <34400d16-f0bf-47a9-adc1-3673f1809313@researchware.com>

When I try on Windows 11 using Livecode 9.6.10 a rawKeyDown or rawkeyUp 
message, the media keys on my HP laptop all return 0 as the keyCode, so 
I think this is a bug of some sort that should be reported to the 
Livecode Quality Center https://quality.livecode.com/

The keyDown or keyUp message does not get sent. the OS (Win11) 
apparently intercepts and raises/lowers/mutes the volume or play/pause 
as applicable.


On 10/20/2023 11:08 AM, David Bovill via use-livecode wrote:
> Is there a way to trap for these keyboard events.
>
> Volume and Media Keys: In the HID standard, volume and media control keys
> often have specific usage IDs. For example:
>
>
>     - 0xE9 is for volume up.
>     - 0xEA is for volume down.
>     - 0xE2 is for mute.
>     - 0xCD is for play/pauseetc
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From david.bovill at gmail.com  Sat Oct 21 06:22:59 2023
From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill)
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2023 11:22:59 +0100
Subject: Mdiai Keys - volume / play/pause/next...
In-Reply-To: <34400d16-f0bf-47a9-adc1-3673f1809313@researchware.com>
References: <CAGASioOBRn=eZG36whjurpzgRp4zKL1ZUkMZG9zhF54tt_gfoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <34400d16-f0bf-47a9-adc1-3673f1809313@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <CAGASioO23XXNO12VQyj+38ZEfd3qFPHoECk0BOoRZCeegQaqeg@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for noting that on Windows. Nothing is sent on MacOS - at least M2
Macbook Air.

I filed a report - please vote -
https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=24375

On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 at 02:05, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> When I try on Windows 11 using Livecode 9.6.10 a rawKeyDown or rawkeyUp
> message, the media keys on my HP laptop all return 0 as the keyCode, so
> I think this is a bug of some sort that should be reported to the
> Livecode Quality Center https://quality.livecode.com/
>
> The keyDown or keyUp message does not get sent. the OS (Win11)
> apparently intercepts and raises/lowers/mutes the volume or play/pause
> as applicable.
>
>
> On 10/20/2023 11:08 AM, David Bovill via use-livecode wrote:
> > Is there a way to trap for these keyboard events.
> >
> > Volume and Media Keys: In the HID standard, volume and media control keys
> > often have specific usage IDs. For example:
> >
> >
> >     - 0xE9 is for volume up.
> >     - 0xEA is for volume down.
> >     - 0xE2 is for mute.
> >     - 0xCD is for play/pauseetc
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From klaus at major-k.de  Sat Oct 21 06:27:03 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2023 12:27:03 +0200
Subject: Mdiai Keys - volume / play/pause/next...
In-Reply-To: <CAGASioO23XXNO12VQyj+38ZEfd3qFPHoECk0BOoRZCeegQaqeg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGASioOBRn=eZG36whjurpzgRp4zKL1ZUkMZG9zhF54tt_gfoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <34400d16-f0bf-47a9-adc1-3673f1809313@researchware.com>
 <CAGASioO23XXNO12VQyj+38ZEfd3qFPHoECk0BOoRZCeegQaqeg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7F07D4CD-ECB5-4684-8B26-F6645946FA1B@major-k.de>

Hi David,

> Am 21.10.2023 um 12:22 schrieb David Bovill via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Thanks for noting that on Windows. Nothing is sent on MacOS - at least M2
> Macbook Air.

same here, macOS 12.7, MacMini Intel.
No rawkey sent...

> I filed a report - please vote -
> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=24375
> 
> On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 at 02:05, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> When I try on Windows 11 using Livecode 9.6.10 a rawKeyDown or rawkeyUp
>> message, the media keys on my HP laptop all return 0 as the keyCode, so
>> I think this is a bug of some sort that should be reported to the
>> Livecode Quality Center https://quality.livecode.com/
>> 
>> The keyDown or keyUp message does not get sent. the OS (Win11)
>> apparently intercepts and raises/lowers/mutes the volume or play/pause
>> as applicable.
>> 
>> 
>> On 10/20/2023 11:08 AM, David Bovill via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Is there a way to trap for these keyboard events.
>>> 
>>> Volume and Media Keys: In the HID standard, volume and media control keys
>>> often have specific usage IDs. For example:
>>>    - 0xE9 is for volume up.
>>>    - 0xEA is for volume down.
>>>    - 0xE2 is for mute.
>>>    - 0xCD is for play/pauseetc

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From david.bovill at gmail.com  Sat Oct 21 06:38:26 2023
From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill)
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2023 11:38:26 +0100
Subject: Media Keys - volume / play/pause/next...
In-Reply-To: <18b4f777de8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <CAGASioOBRn=eZG36whjurpzgRp4zKL1ZUkMZG9zhF54tt_gfoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGASioP9s-oUAw2ggqTGgs8oOASo-oN8aci8MiRkWMs5y19Dfg@mail.gmail.com>
 <18b4f777de8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <CAGASioPDh7cNh_iFq8PYFoZuF=8hBt4ha0DBHaeR+R=pLEOdaA@mail.gmail.com>

>
>
> The media key events are sent. Several apps accept them, and you can
> customise what they do with https://github.com/pqrs-org/Karabiner-Elements
> which works robustly.
>
> Media key input from peripherals such as keyboards or earbuds typically
> adheres to the Human Interface Device (HID) standard
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_interface_device#HID_standard>.
> Common media controls you might find include:
>
>    - Play/Pause: Toggles between play and pause for media playback.
>    - Stop: Stops the media playback.
>    - Next Track: Advances to the next track or chapter.
>    - Previous Track: Returns to the previous track or chapter.
>    - Volume Up: Increases the volume.
>    - Volume Down: Decreases the volume.
>    - Mute: Mutes or unmutes the audio.
>
> The way earbuds communicate with devices can also depend on the specific
> connection protocol they use. Bluetooth headphones and earbuds use the Audio/Video
> Remote Control Profile (AVRCP)
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bluetooth_profiles#Audio/Video_Remote_Control_Profile_(AVRCP)>
> to control playback (e.g., play, pause, volume control) on the paired
> device.
>


> On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 at 00:43, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> If rawKeyDown/Up doesn't catch them then I assume the OS isn't sending the
> keycodes to apps.
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On October 20, 2023 5:42:05 PM David Bovill via use-livecode
> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > Surprisingly difficult. There are a couple of apps that let you customize
> > play/pause interactions from the keyboard - but they dont work when sent
> > from other devices such as earbuds. Livecode does not seem to read these
> > events either....
> >
> > On Fri, 20 Oct 2023 at 16:08, David Bovill <david.bovill at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Is there a way to trap for these keyboard events.
> >>
> >> Volume and Media Keys: In the HID standard, volume and media control
> keys
> >> often have specific usage IDs. For example:
> >>
> >>
> >>    - 0xE9 is for volume up.
> >>    - 0xEA is for volume down.
> >>    - 0xE2 is for mute.
> >>    - 0xCD is for play/pauseetc
> >>
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From david.bovill at gmail.com  Sun Oct 22 05:41:02 2023
From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill)
Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2023 10:41:02 +0100
Subject: Me and target of script widgets
In-Reply-To: <CAGASioPDh7cNh_iFq8PYFoZuF=8hBt4ha0DBHaeR+R=pLEOdaA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGASioOBRn=eZG36whjurpzgRp4zKL1ZUkMZG9zhF54tt_gfoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGASioP9s-oUAw2ggqTGgs8oOASo-oN8aci8MiRkWMs5y19Dfg@mail.gmail.com>
 <18b4f777de8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CAGASioPDh7cNh_iFq8PYFoZuF=8hBt4ha0DBHaeR+R=pLEOdaA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGASioP7evW+ELO53B4_41BkUqc=yNMuJQmcbu4h1Vywtd2tAA@mail.gmail.com>

Having my first go at script widgets. It appears that there is either an
issue (or it is a feature) with script widgets and "me"?

A handler like this:

*on* mouseUp

*## All references are to "inner" controls (ie the target) and not the
group*

*put* the short id of me into shortID

*put* the long id of the target into sName

*put* the long id of me into myID

*## Have to be explicit with messages*

*-- dispatch "menu_AskEdit" to me -- or the target does not work*

*dispatch* "menu_AskEdit" to this card with myID,shortID

*end* mouseUp

When inside a script only widget shows that would normally pass the long id
of the control clicked on within the group (script widget) with myID and
the short ID of the group (script widget) itself in shortID. However both
the target and me refer to the control and not the group / script widget.
It seems there is no easy way to find out a reference to "me" in a
script widget?

I've a lot of scripts that use "me" in behaviors for potential script
widgets - so looking for a short term and long term solution for this?

From alex at tweedly.net  Sun Oct 22 06:01:15 2023
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2023 11:01:15 +0100
Subject: Me and target of script widgets
In-Reply-To: <CAGASioP7evW+ELO53B4_41BkUqc=yNMuJQmcbu4h1Vywtd2tAA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGASioOBRn=eZG36whjurpzgRp4zKL1ZUkMZG9zhF54tt_gfoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGASioP9s-oUAw2ggqTGgs8oOASo-oN8aci8MiRkWMs5y19Dfg@mail.gmail.com>
 <18b4f777de8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CAGASioPDh7cNh_iFq8PYFoZuF=8hBt4ha0DBHaeR+R=pLEOdaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGASioP7evW+ELO53B4_41BkUqc=yNMuJQmcbu4h1Vywtd2tAA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8b10d8d6-52aa-44e7-98d2-2e5d72e2424e@tweedly.net>

Brutal answer :-)

Script widgets aren't ready for release yet. They have (effectivtely) no 
documentation, no examples, no lessons.

Unless you have a desparate need to do it now, I'd suggest waiting until 
they are somewhere near ready.

Alex.

On 22/10/2023 10:41, David Bovill via use-livecode wrote:
> Having my first go at script widgets. It appears that there is either an
> issue (or it is a feature) with script widgets and "me"?
>
> A handler like this:
>
> *on* mouseUp
>
> *## All references are to "inner" controls (ie the target) and not the
> group*
>
> *put* the short id of me into shortID
>
> *put* the long id of the target into sName
>
> *put* the long id of me into myID
>
> *## Have to be explicit with messages*
>
> *-- dispatch "menu_AskEdit" to me -- or the target does not work*
>
> *dispatch* "menu_AskEdit" to this card with myID,shortID
>
> *end* mouseUp
>
> When inside a script only widget shows that would normally pass the long id
> of the control clicked on within the group (script widget) with myID and
> the short ID of the group (script widget) itself in shortID. However both
> the target and me refer to the control and not the group / script widget.
> It seems there is no easy way to find out a reference to "me" in a
> script widget?
>
> I've a lot of scripts that use "me" in behaviors for potential script
> widgets - so looking for a short term and long term solution for this?
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From klaus at major-k.de  Sun Oct 22 08:34:23 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2023 14:34:23 +0200
Subject: ANDROID player won't play MP3 from server but locally?
Message-ID: <5DE2B35A-B785-4D51-85CF-737E8A7DFA13@major-k.de>

Hi friends,

I'm having problems to play a MP3 (5 MB) from my server.
And yes, I waited up to a minute before I closed the app.
Works fine when I play it locally.

The device is connected via (not slow) W-Lan to the internet.

LC 9.6.10, macOS 12.7, Android 8.01

I created two buttons for create and delete and put this into the card script
-------------------------------------------------
command create_player

   ## This creates a black rect and nothing more?!
   ## I don't even see the ANSWER at the end of the script
   put "https://www.major-k.de/blueprint.mp3" into tURL

   ## Works immediately when using Safari browser on my Mac, 
   ## so the file is definitively there and URL correct!

   ## And yes, I added SSL & Encryption neccessary for -> httpS

   ## This works as advertised
   ## put specialfolderpath("resources") & "/blueprint.mp3" into tURL
   mobilecontrolCreate "player", "mplayer"
   mobileControlSet "mplayer", "visible", TRUE

   ## That grc is hidden:
   mobileControlSet "mplayer", "rect", (the rect of grc "player")
   mobileControlSet "mplayer", "backgroundcolor", "213,143,116"
   
   mobileControlSet "mplayer", "showController", TRUE
   mobileControlSet "mplayer", "filename", tURL
   
   if mobileControlGet("mplayer", "duration") = 0 then
      answer "Player is not initialised correctly"
   end if
   mobileControlDo "mplayer", "play"
end create_player

command delete_player
   mobileControlDo "mplayer", "stop"
   mobileControlDelete "player", "mplayer"
end delete_player
------------------------------------------------
Most of the time I have to tap the "delete" button at least 5 times or more 
before the player finally disappears?
However the sound stops immediately at the first tap!?

What am I missing?
Thanks for any hint!


Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From klaus at major-k.de  Sun Oct 22 08:42:28 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2023 14:42:28 +0200
Subject: ANDROID player won't play MP3 from server but locally? 2
Message-ID: <CCF4B261-01BC-4F55-9EE0-E8C86E968168@major-k.de>

Hi friends,

OK, found at least the DELETE problem... 8-)

command delete_player
 mobileControlDo "mplayer", "stop"
  ## mobileControlDelete "player", "mplayer"

 ## has to be:
 mobileControlDelete "mplayer"
end delete_player


Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From Bernd.Niggemann at uni-wh.de  Sun Oct 22 12:48:55 2023
From: Bernd.Niggemann at uni-wh.de (Niggemann, Bernd)
Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2023 16:48:55 +0000
Subject: Me and target of script widgets
Message-ID: <2390B2A5-E97C-408D-9D1A-8EC2730B50FE@uni-wh.de>

Hi David,

Stam Kapetanakis has done a script widget which can be found at

https://github.com/stam66/tristate/blob/main/com.sk.widget.tristate.livecodescript

Script Widgets are new and a bit special. Not as much as LCB but still.
You can use Stam's widget as a template of a working script widget.
I learned a lot from it.

Kind regards
Bernd

From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Mon Oct 23 09:09:39 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 09:09:39 -0400
Subject: Me and target of script widgets
In-Reply-To: <8b10d8d6-52aa-44e7-98d2-2e5d72e2424e@tweedly.net>
References: <CAGASioOBRn=eZG36whjurpzgRp4zKL1ZUkMZG9zhF54tt_gfoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGASioP9s-oUAw2ggqTGgs8oOASo-oN8aci8MiRkWMs5y19Dfg@mail.gmail.com>
 <18b4f777de8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CAGASioPDh7cNh_iFq8PYFoZuF=8hBt4ha0DBHaeR+R=pLEOdaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGASioP7evW+ELO53B4_41BkUqc=yNMuJQmcbu4h1Vywtd2tAA@mail.gmail.com>
 <8b10d8d6-52aa-44e7-98d2-2e5d72e2424e@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <CADCoycN9aBPmpu=hTZdW2nhkUv9-OBVgWbwweYL-Y-CLyHRaJQ@mail.gmail.com>

also brutal answer:
documentation needs to be not just extended, but written for the property
inspector and property editor, or you are going to be spinning your wheels
trying to figure out that thing, too.
this same issue has made writing lcb widgets so exceptionally painful that
i've stopped wasting my time.
the answer from the mothership has been "if you have some specific
question, ask," which, of course leads to a slew of questions, which then
go mostly or entirely unanswered.

On Sun, Oct 22, 2023 at 6:01 AM Alex Tweedly via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Brutal answer :-)
>
> Script widgets aren't ready for release yet. They have (effectivtely) no
> documentation, no examples, no lessons.
>
> Unless you have a desparate need to do it now, I'd suggest waiting until
> they are somewhere near ready.
>
> Alex.
>
> On 22/10/2023 10:41, David Bovill via use-livecode wrote:
> > Having my first go at script widgets. It appears that there is either an
> > issue (or it is a feature) with script widgets and "me"?
> >
> > A handler like this:
> >
> > *on* mouseUp
> >
> > *## All references are to "inner" controls (ie the target) and not the
> > group*
> >
> > *put* the short id of me into shortID
> >
> > *put* the long id of the target into sName
> >
> > *put* the long id of me into myID
> >
> > *## Have to be explicit with messages*
> >
> > *-- dispatch "menu_AskEdit" to me -- or the target does not work*
> >
> > *dispatch* "menu_AskEdit" to this card with myID,shortID
> >
> > *end* mouseUp
> >
> > When inside a script only widget shows that would normally pass the long
> id
> > of the control clicked on within the group (script widget) with myID and
> > the short ID of the group (script widget) itself in shortID. However both
> > the target and me refer to the control and not the group / script widget.
> > It seems there is no easy way to find out a reference to "me" in a
> > script widget?
> >
> > I've a lot of scripts that use "me" in behaviors for potential script
> > widgets - so looking for a short term and long term solution for this?
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com  Mon Oct 23 09:54:27 2023
From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Eller, Roger)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 13:54:27 +0000
Subject: Windows Standalone strands windows tasks
In-Reply-To: <SJ0PR02MB75335F1B8A9BA620BA744193B2D3A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533F0AE31AA9A3E67B47373B2D3A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <632618A9-F5A1-4245-BC4D-4B87C943F220@major-k.de>
 <SJ0PR02MB75335F1B8A9BA620BA744193B2D3A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <BN8PR14MB2913EC6A7DF0543EFBEEE1FBAFD8A@BN8PR14MB2913.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>

I primarily develop for Windows, and haven't experienced this since my early rookie years.  I believe the secret is to have the line "set destroyStack to true" in every stack so that when it closes, nothing lingers in memory.  Then, when you actually quit, it all goes away.


~Roger

________________________________
From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> on behalf of Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2023 12:42 PM
To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Cc: Bob Sneidar <bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com>
Subject: RE: Windows Standalone strands windows tasks


CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.



Thanks I'll give that a try. I think I am already quitting the splash stack, because my MacOS works properly, but the second part I never knew about. Unfortunately my Apple laptop is in the shop so I won't be able to test until Monday.

Bob S

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> On Behalf Of Klaus major-k via use-livecode
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2023 9:20 AM
To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Cc: Klaus major-k <klaus at major-k.de>
Subject: Re: Windows Standalone strands windows tasks

Hi Bob,

> Am 12.10.2023 um 17:36 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>
> Hi all.
>
> I have a standalone that uses a splash stack, which upon launch displays a startup graphic, then hides itself and opens the mainstack of my project. On MacOS when I "quit" the entire application quits. On Windows however the splash stack (which is the stack the standalone is built from) keeps running, and if I re-launch the standalone it creates a second instance of the app in memory.
>
> How do I get the standalone to quit when I close the mainstack in Windows?

add this to the script your mainstack:
-------------------------
on closestack
  close stack "your splash stack here"
  ## do more closestack stuff
end closestack
-------------------------
That should do the trick.

Hint:
To avoid this "Windows feature:
>> if I re-launch the standalone it creates a second instance of the app in memory.
add a dummy handler to your standalone/splash stack script:
-------------------------
on relaunch
   ## NADA!
end relaunch
-------------------------

> Bob S

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major

From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Mon Oct 23 11:22:13 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 15:22:13 +0000
Subject: Mdiai Keys - volume / play/pause/next...
In-Reply-To: <CAGASioOBRn=eZG36whjurpzgRp4zKL1ZUkMZG9zhF54tt_gfoA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGASioOBRn=eZG36whjurpzgRp4zKL1ZUkMZG9zhF54tt_gfoA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CC425B8D-2602-4D58-AA41-41BD6EABE0AB@iotecdigital.com>

I have in the past was unable to trap a key event for arrow keys. I think Jacque is right I do not think the system deals with arrow keys the way other keys work. They do not send any kind of ascii code, so LC would have to monitor them differently. Does the insert, home page up and page down buttons return anything? If not then I think that validates the idea that LC is only looking for ASCII style events. 

Bob S


> On Oct 20, 2023, at 8:08 AM, David Bovill via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Is there a way to trap for these keyboard events.
> 
> Volume and Media Keys: In the HID standard, volume and media control keys
> often have specific usage IDs. For example:
> 
> 
>   - 0xE9 is for volume up.
>   - 0xEA is for volume down.
>   - 0xE2 is for mute.
>   - 0xCD is for play/pauseetc
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Mon Oct 23 11:33:32 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 15:33:32 +0000
Subject: Mdiai Keys - volume / play/pause/next...
In-Reply-To: <CC425B8D-2602-4D58-AA41-41BD6EABE0AB@iotecdigital.com>
References: <CAGASioOBRn=eZG36whjurpzgRp4zKL1ZUkMZG9zhF54tt_gfoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CC425B8D-2602-4D58-AA41-41BD6EABE0AB@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <E98AB499-F9C9-4DC4-9FA3-69884C11845A@iotecdigital.com>

Whoops! You were talking about media keys of course. I DO get values in a rawKeyUp handler for arrow keys and the others I mentioned. Not for the media keys though. You can just see why. All the other keys are part of a standard ANSI style keyboard. The media keys are not so far as I can tell, as common as it is to have them on a virtually every desktop keyboard these days. 

Bob S


> On Oct 23, 2023, at 8:22 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I have in the past was unable to trap a key event for arrow keys. I think Jacque is right I do not think the system deals with arrow keys the way other keys work. They do not send any kind of ascii code, so LC would have to monitor them differently. Does the insert, home page up and page down buttons return anything? If not then I think that validates the idea that LC is only looking for ASCII style events. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Oct 20, 2023, at 8:08 AM, David Bovill via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Is there a way to trap for these keyboard events.
>> 
>> Volume and Media Keys: In the HID standard, volume and media control keys
>> often have specific usage IDs. For example:
>> 
>> 
>>  - 0xE9 is for volume up.
>>  - 0xEA is for volume down.
>>  - 0xE2 is for mute.
>>  - 0xCD is for play/pauseetc
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Oct 23 11:40:02 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 17:40:02 +0200
Subject: PolyGrid: UNhilite a row?
Message-ID: <D465FDB6-2851-45CF-96DD-B3B9A98ACC5F@major-k.de>

Hi friends,

I cannot UN-hilite a row in a polygrid?!
I tried:
...
set the hilitedrow of widget "index" to "0"
...
set the hilitedrow of widget "index" to 0
...
set the pgHilitedText of widget "index" to ""
...
set the pgHilitedText of widget "index" to EMPTY
...
no dice!?

I use the latest version of the "Widget pack".
Thanks in advance!


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Mon Oct 23 12:50:38 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 12:50:38 -0400
Subject: PolyGrid: UNhilite a row?
In-Reply-To: <D465FDB6-2851-45CF-96DD-B3B9A98ACC5F@major-k.de>
References: <D465FDB6-2851-45CF-96DD-B3B9A98ACC5F@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <CADCoycNb=Wh4cXooHPbPUAzbEKSWRJp1W9LDroqYtmADqvC+2w@mail.gmail.com>

interesting. it works for me. i use the numeric version (set the hilited
row of widget "pg" to 0

On Mon, Oct 23, 2023 at 11:40 AM Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi friends,
>
> I cannot UN-hilite a row in a polygrid?!
> I tried:
> ...
> set the hilitedrow of widget "index" to "0"
> ...
> set the hilitedrow of widget "index" to 0
> ...
> set the pgHilitedText of widget "index" to ""
> ...
> set the pgHilitedText of widget "index" to EMPTY
> ...
> no dice!?
>
> I use the latest version of the "Widget pack".
> Thanks in advance!
>
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Mon Oct 23 12:51:44 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 12:51:44 -0400
Subject: PolyGrid: UNhilite a row?
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycNb=Wh4cXooHPbPUAzbEKSWRJp1W9LDroqYtmADqvC+2w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D465FDB6-2851-45CF-96DD-B3B9A98ACC5F@major-k.de>
 <CADCoycNb=Wh4cXooHPbPUAzbEKSWRJp1W9LDroqYtmADqvC+2w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycMxo2rPAMiRKE5s7uf6HpP0nO7Z19z-_SuN=ouTXGx+Gw@mail.gmail.com>

what event are you setting it in? i have had issues with the widgets not
responding to appearance updates in preopencard, but i don't have a great
recipe for it.

On Mon, Oct 23, 2023 at 12:50 PM Mike Kerner <MikeKerner at roadrunner.com>
wrote:

> interesting. it works for me. i use the numeric version (set the hilited
> row of widget "pg" to 0
>
> On Mon, Oct 23, 2023 at 11:40 AM Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi friends,
>>
>> I cannot UN-hilite a row in a polygrid?!
>> I tried:
>> ...
>> set the hilitedrow of widget "index" to "0"
>> ...
>> set the hilitedrow of widget "index" to 0
>> ...
>> set the pgHilitedText of widget "index" to ""
>> ...
>> set the pgHilitedText of widget "index" to EMPTY
>> ...
>> no dice!?
>>
>> I use the latest version of the "Widget pack".
>> Thanks in advance!
>>
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Klaus
>> --
>> Klaus Major
>> https://www.major-k.de
>> https://www.major-k.de/bass
>> klaus at major-k.de
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>    and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Oct 23 13:03:12 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 19:03:12 +0200
Subject: PolyGrid: UNhilite a row?
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycMxo2rPAMiRKE5s7uf6HpP0nO7Z19z-_SuN=ouTXGx+Gw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D465FDB6-2851-45CF-96DD-B3B9A98ACC5F@major-k.de>
 <CADCoycNb=Wh4cXooHPbPUAzbEKSWRJp1W9LDroqYtmADqvC+2w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADCoycMxo2rPAMiRKE5s7uf6HpP0nO7Z19z-_SuN=ouTXGx+Gw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <16C759D8-CAC4-4429-9A42-6D1865E31DC9@major-k.de>

Hi Mike,

> Am 23.10.2023 um 18:51 schrieb Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> what event are you setting it in? i have had issues with the widgets not
> responding to appearance updates in preopencard, but i don't have a great
> recipe for it.

See here, I have a long list of PDF files and clicking the widget "index" will filter the PDF list with that char.
<https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ygmnzx3s7pvknpbycvi6z/index_polygrid.png?rlkey=c4as77jo96c0e2em3bde9tpk8&dl=0>

Clicking button "A-Z" will the display all the files.
I need to UNhilite the index in that button.

No idea why it does not work? But the workaround does, so problem solved (for me and for now).

> On Mon, Oct 23, 2023 at 12:50 PM Mike Kerner <MikeKerner at roadrunner.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> interesting. it works for me. i use the numeric version (set the hilited
>> row of widget "pg" to 0
>> 
>> On Mon, Oct 23, 2023 at 11:40 AM Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi friends,
>>> 
>>> I cannot UN-hilite a row in a polygrid?!
>>> I tried:
>>> ...
>>> set the hilitedrow of widget "index" to "0"
>>> ...
>>> set the hilitedrow of widget "index" to 0
>>> ...
>>> set the pgHilitedText of widget "index" to ""
>>> ...
>>> set the pgHilitedText of widget "index" to EMPTY
>>> ...
>>> no dice!?
>>> 
>>> I use the latest version of the "Widget pack".
>>> Thanks in advance!

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From ahsoftware at sonic.net  Mon Oct 23 13:08:49 2023
From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 10:08:49 -0700
Subject: PolyGrid: UNhilite a row?
In-Reply-To: <16C759D8-CAC4-4429-9A42-6D1865E31DC9@major-k.de>
References: <D465FDB6-2851-45CF-96DD-B3B9A98ACC5F@major-k.de>
 <CADCoycNb=Wh4cXooHPbPUAzbEKSWRJp1W9LDroqYtmADqvC+2w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADCoycMxo2rPAMiRKE5s7uf6HpP0nO7Z19z-_SuN=ouTXGx+Gw@mail.gmail.com>
 <16C759D8-CAC4-4429-9A42-6D1865E31DC9@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <8c13ed7c-2e28-4d17-b1e6-c5f1590f55e6@sonic.net>

On 10/23/23 10:03, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:

> See here, I have a long list of PDF files and clicking the widget "index" will filter the PDF list with that char.
> <https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ygmnzx3s7pvknpbycvi6z/index_polygrid.png?rlkey=c4as77jo96c0e2em3bde9tpk8&dl=0>

Davy's On The Road Again!
Score points for coolness.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Mon Oct 23 13:09:22 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 13:09:22 -0400
Subject: PolyGrid: UNhilite a row?
In-Reply-To: <16C759D8-CAC4-4429-9A42-6D1865E31DC9@major-k.de>
References: <D465FDB6-2851-45CF-96DD-B3B9A98ACC5F@major-k.de>
 <CADCoycNb=Wh4cXooHPbPUAzbEKSWRJp1W9LDroqYtmADqvC+2w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADCoycMxo2rPAMiRKE5s7uf6HpP0nO7Z19z-_SuN=ouTXGx+Gw@mail.gmail.com>
 <16C759D8-CAC4-4429-9A42-6D1865E31DC9@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <CADCoycOaNG1naKGmmuWX7U2ud+PH1Yu9OczhiU7-03=BSyz9cg@mail.gmail.com>

unfortunately, all i can see is the png file. i can't download the stack to
see what's going on.

On Mon, Oct 23, 2023 at 1:03 PM Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Mike,
>
> > Am 23.10.2023 um 18:51 schrieb Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> >
> > what event are you setting it in? i have had issues with the widgets not
> > responding to appearance updates in preopencard, but i don't have a great
> > recipe for it.
>
> See here, I have a long list of PDF files and clicking the widget "index"
> will filter the PDF list with that char.
> <
> https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ygmnzx3s7pvknpbycvi6z/index_polygrid.png?rlkey=c4as77jo96c0e2em3bde9tpk8&dl=0
> >
>
> Clicking button "A-Z" will the display all the files.
> I need to UNhilite the index in that button.
>
> No idea why it does not work? But the workaround does, so problem solved
> (for me and for now).
>
> > On Mon, Oct 23, 2023 at 12:50 PM Mike Kerner <MikeKerner at roadrunner.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> interesting. it works for me. i use the numeric version (set the hilited
> >> row of widget "pg" to 0
> >>
> >> On Mon, Oct 23, 2023 at 11:40 AM Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi friends,
> >>>
> >>> I cannot UN-hilite a row in a polygrid?!
> >>> I tried:
> >>> ...
> >>> set the hilitedrow of widget "index" to "0"
> >>> ...
> >>> set the hilitedrow of widget "index" to 0
> >>> ...
> >>> set the pgHilitedText of widget "index" to ""
> >>> ...
> >>> set the pgHilitedText of widget "index" to EMPTY
> >>> ...
> >>> no dice!?
> >>>
> >>> I use the latest version of the "Widget pack".
> >>> Thanks in advance!
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
>
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Oct 23 13:10:55 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 19:10:55 +0200
Subject: PolyGrid: UNhilite a row?
In-Reply-To: <8c13ed7c-2e28-4d17-b1e6-c5f1590f55e6@sonic.net>
References: <D465FDB6-2851-45CF-96DD-B3B9A98ACC5F@major-k.de>
 <CADCoycNb=Wh4cXooHPbPUAzbEKSWRJp1W9LDroqYtmADqvC+2w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADCoycMxo2rPAMiRKE5s7uf6HpP0nO7Z19z-_SuN=ouTXGx+Gw@mail.gmail.com>
 <16C759D8-CAC4-4429-9A42-6D1865E31DC9@major-k.de>
 <8c13ed7c-2e28-4d17-b1e6-c5f1590f55e6@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <60E01B49-417E-4926-BC13-AAC676B1FB6D@major-k.de>

Hi Mark,

> Am 23.10.2023 um 19:08 schrieb Mark Wieder via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> On 10/23/23 10:03, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
> 
>> See here, I have a long list of PDF files and clicking the widget "index" will filter the PDF list with that char.
>> <https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ygmnzx3s7pvknpbycvi6z/index_polygrid.png?rlkey=c4as77jo96c0e2em3bde9tpk8&dl=0>
> 
> Davy's On The Road Again!
> Score points for coolness.

thanks! :-)
Yeah, great song!

> -- 
> Mark Wieder
> ahsoftware at gmail.com

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Oct 23 13:12:26 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 19:12:26 +0200
Subject: PolyGrid: UNhilite a row?
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycOaNG1naKGmmuWX7U2ud+PH1Yu9OczhiU7-03=BSyz9cg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D465FDB6-2851-45CF-96DD-B3B9A98ACC5F@major-k.de>
 <CADCoycNb=Wh4cXooHPbPUAzbEKSWRJp1W9LDroqYtmADqvC+2w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADCoycMxo2rPAMiRKE5s7uf6HpP0nO7Z19z-_SuN=ouTXGx+Gw@mail.gmail.com>
 <16C759D8-CAC4-4429-9A42-6D1865E31DC9@major-k.de>
 <CADCoycOaNG1naKGmmuWX7U2ud+PH1Yu9OczhiU7-03=BSyz9cg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6A88B070-4270-4F46-9360-A3568E65F322@major-k.de>

Hi Mike,

> Am 23.10.2023 um 19:09 schrieb Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> unfortunately, all i can see is the png file.

yes, by intention! ;-)

> i can't download the stack to see what's going on.

Sorry, stack is not meant for public...


Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Mon Oct 23 13:15:57 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 13:15:57 -0400
Subject: PolyGrid: UNhilite a row?
In-Reply-To: <6A88B070-4270-4F46-9360-A3568E65F322@major-k.de>
References: <D465FDB6-2851-45CF-96DD-B3B9A98ACC5F@major-k.de>
 <CADCoycNb=Wh4cXooHPbPUAzbEKSWRJp1W9LDroqYtmADqvC+2w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADCoycMxo2rPAMiRKE5s7uf6HpP0nO7Z19z-_SuN=ouTXGx+Gw@mail.gmail.com>
 <16C759D8-CAC4-4429-9A42-6D1865E31DC9@major-k.de>
 <CADCoycOaNG1naKGmmuWX7U2ud+PH1Yu9OczhiU7-03=BSyz9cg@mail.gmail.com>
 <6A88B070-4270-4F46-9360-A3568E65F322@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <CADCoycNekLD+B2+ey7_NZCdCr4Bb5C-XPRoCbEs8hDWA0y2sKQ@mail.gmail.com>

you didn't mention the workaround that you used.
i'm not sure what we're supposed to do with the png since we can't see the
code.

On Mon, Oct 23, 2023 at 1:12 PM Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Mike,
>
> > Am 23.10.2023 um 19:09 schrieb Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> >
> > unfortunately, all i can see is the png file.
>
> yes, by intention! ;-)
>
> > i can't download the stack to see what's going on.
>
> Sorry, stack is not meant for public...
>
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
>
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Oct 23 13:24:48 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 19:24:48 +0200
Subject: PolyGrid: UNhilite a row?
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycNekLD+B2+ey7_NZCdCr4Bb5C-XPRoCbEs8hDWA0y2sKQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D465FDB6-2851-45CF-96DD-B3B9A98ACC5F@major-k.de>
 <CADCoycNb=Wh4cXooHPbPUAzbEKSWRJp1W9LDroqYtmADqvC+2w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADCoycMxo2rPAMiRKE5s7uf6HpP0nO7Z19z-_SuN=ouTXGx+Gw@mail.gmail.com>
 <16C759D8-CAC4-4429-9A42-6D1865E31DC9@major-k.de>
 <CADCoycOaNG1naKGmmuWX7U2ud+PH1Yu9OczhiU7-03=BSyz9cg@mail.gmail.com>
 <6A88B070-4270-4F46-9360-A3568E65F322@major-k.de>
 <CADCoycNekLD+B2+ey7_NZCdCr4Bb5C-XPRoCbEs8hDWA0y2sKQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <22BD2C99-1A09-42AA-91C2-B0315AC0136B@major-k.de>

Hi Mike,

> Am 23.10.2023 um 19:15 schrieb Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> you didn't mention the workaround that you used.

I wrote earlier in this thread:
...
click at the topleft of widget "index"
...
That does the trick for me and UNhilited the widget.

> i'm not sure what we're supposed to do with the png since we can't see the
> code.

>> Am 23.10.2023 um 18:51 schrieb Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> what event are you setting it in? ...

So gave him an impression of how my layout and polygrids look like and where 
I want to UNhilte the index.

I tried had:
...
set the hilitedrow of widget "index" to "0"
...
set the hilitedrow of widget "index" to 0
...
set the pgHilitedText of widget "index" to ""
...
set the pgHilitedText of widget "index" to EMPTY
...
no dice!?


Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Oct 23 15:45:11 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 14:45:11 -0500
Subject: ANDROID player won't play MP3 from server but locally?
In-Reply-To: <5DE2B35A-B785-4D51-85CF-737E8A7DFA13@major-k.de>
References: <5DE2B35A-B785-4D51-85CF-737E8A7DFA13@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <8856c056-ddea-4024-875b-fb6fc286ee38@hyperactivesw.com>

On 10/22/23 7:34 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
> I'm having problems to play a MP3 (5 MB) from my server. And yes, I waited up to a minute 
> before I closed the app. Works fine when I play it locally.


Below is the script I use for mobile players. It's old so things may be different now, but if I 
remember right I had to check playerPropertyAvailable for the duration to be sure the player 
had enough content to start playing.


on createMobileAudioPlayer pURL, pPlayerName
   -- pURL = remote video or audio file
   -- pPlayerName = name of player to create; if empty uses LC-assigned ID
   if sPlayerID is in mobileControls() then mobileControlDelete sPlayerID -- init
   if pPlayerName = "" then
     mobileControlCreate "player"
     put the result into sPlayerId
   else
     mobileControlCreate "player",pPlayerName
     put pPlayerName into sPlayerID
   end if
   mobileControlSet sPlayerId, "rect", getPlayerRect() -- can use a literal rect instead
   mobileControlSet sPlayerId, "showController", true
   mobileControlSet sPlayerId, "filename", pURL
   mobileControlSet sPlayerId, "visible", true
   if pURL begins with "http" then
     mobileBusyIndicatorStart "square", "Loading..." -- add loading indicator until duration is 
available
   end if
end createMobileAudioPlayer

on playerPropertyAvailable pProperty -- msg sent when enough content is loaded
   if pProperty is "duration" then
     mobileBusyIndicatorStop -- Remove the "Loading..." indicator and start playing
     mobileControlDo sPlayerId, "play"
   end if
end playerPropertyAvailable

on setMobileAudioPlayer pPlayerName,pState -- control the state of the mobile player
   -- pState = "pause", "play", or "stop"
   if pPlayerName is not among the lines of mobileControls() then exit setMobileAudioPlayer
   mobileControlDo pPlayerName, pState
   if pState = "stop" then
     mobileBusyIndicatorStop -- in case it's still showing
     mobileControlSet pPlayerName, "visible", false
     mobileControlDelete pPlayerName
   end if
end setMobileAudioPlayer

on playerFinished -- sent on mobile when audio is done
   setMobileAudioPlayer "stop"
end playerFinished

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Oct 23 15:52:25 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 21:52:25 +0200
Subject: ANDROID player won't play MP3 from server but locally?
In-Reply-To: <8856c056-ddea-4024-875b-fb6fc286ee38@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <5DE2B35A-B785-4D51-85CF-737E8A7DFA13@major-k.de>
 <8856c056-ddea-4024-875b-fb6fc286ee38@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <854B895F-20A9-485E-99BE-D9621A2CBFBF@major-k.de>

Hi Jacque,

wonderful, thank you very much!
Will test this and report back.

> Am 23.10.2023 um 21:45 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> On 10/22/23 7:34 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>> I'm having problems to play a MP3 (5 MB) from my server. And yes, I waited up to a minute before I closed the app. Works fine when I play it locally.
> 
> 
> Below is the script I use for mobile players. It's old so things may be different now, but if I remember right I had to check playerPropertyAvailable for the duration to be sure the player had enough content to start playing.
> 
> on createMobileAudioPlayer pURL, pPlayerName
>  -- pURL = remote video or audio file
>  -- pPlayerName = name of player to create; if empty uses LC-assigned ID
>  if sPlayerID is in mobileControls() then mobileControlDelete sPlayerID -- init
>  if pPlayerName = "" then
>    mobileControlCreate "player"
>    put the result into sPlayerId
>  else
>    mobileControlCreate "player",pPlayerName
>    put pPlayerName into sPlayerID
>  end if
>  mobileControlSet sPlayerId, "rect", getPlayerRect() -- can use a literal rect instead
>  mobileControlSet sPlayerId, "showController", true
>  mobileControlSet sPlayerId, "filename", pURL
>  mobileControlSet sPlayerId, "visible", true
>  if pURL begins with "http" then
>    mobileBusyIndicatorStart "square", "Loading..." -- add loading indicator until duration is available
>  end if
> end createMobileAudioPlayer
> 
> on playerPropertyAvailable pProperty -- msg sent when enough content is loaded
>  if pProperty is "duration" then
>    mobileBusyIndicatorStop -- Remove the "Loading..." indicator and start playing
>    mobileControlDo sPlayerId, "play"
>  end if
> end playerPropertyAvailable
> 
> on setMobileAudioPlayer pPlayerName,pState -- control the state of the mobile player
>  -- pState = "pause", "play", or "stop"
>  if pPlayerName is not among the lines of mobileControls() then exit setMobileAudioPlayer
>  mobileControlDo pPlayerName, pState
>  if pState = "stop" then
>    mobileBusyIndicatorStop -- in case it's still showing
>    mobileControlSet pPlayerName, "visible", false
>    mobileControlDelete pPlayerName
>  end if
> end setMobileAudioPlayer
> 
> on playerFinished -- sent on mobile when audio is done
>  setMobileAudioPlayer "stop"
> end playerFinished
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From paul at researchware.com  Tue Oct 24 13:00:25 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2023 13:00:25 -0400
Subject: Oddity in 'currentCard' function?
Message-ID: <eaf3e2d1-542e-4f54-a14d-c37c3059a1ac@researchware.com>

I think I found a oddity in the "currentCard" property.

The documentation states that the currentCard property return the short 
name of the current card of a stack:

for example: put the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" into tCardName

You can then execute code such as: set the myProperty of cd tCardName of 
stack "Untitled 1" to tValue

However, if the card does not have a name set, then current card returns 
"card id <idnumber>", example: card id 1002 and the above 2 lines of 
code return a runtime error of 'can't find card'

put the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" into tCardName
set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue

WORKS for cards with a name
FAILS for cards without a name (where currentCard returns 'card id <number')

I think currentCard should just return 'id 1002' rather than 'card id 
1002' if a card has no name.

Trying to execute: set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 
1" to tValue WHEN tCardName contain 'card id 1002' produces a run time error

But trying to execute: set the myProperty of cd id 1002 of stack 
"Untitled 1" to tValue works.

Oddly, set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 1" to 
tValue FAILS if tCardName contains "id 10001" (and yes that card with 
that ID exists)

Oddly again, set the myProperty of the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" 
to tValue DOES WORK whether they have a name or not

But again, breaking that example above (set the myProperty of the 
currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue) into 2 lines:
put the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" into tCardName
set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue
FAILS if the card has no name.

Something just seems off here?


From craig at starfirelighting.com  Tue Oct 24 13:59:53 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2023 13:59:53 -0400
Subject: Oddity in 'currentCard' function?
In-Reply-To: <eaf3e2d1-542e-4f54-a14d-c37c3059a1ac@researchware.com>
References: <eaf3e2d1-542e-4f54-a14d-c37c3059a1ac@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <1D46D0DC-CE13-43EB-A585-9B2F0238DE0F@starfirelighting.com>

Paul.

Having a more complete description seems right to me. You are essentially saying that if you use the moniker “the currentCard” that LC should know what you are intending, the is, the current “card”, and not the current “something else”.

It has to be one of those cases where, as Danny Goodman once said, “If a line of code seem like it ought to work but does not, try using a “do” construction to force another layer of resolution;

on mouseUp
put the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" into tCardName

do "set the myProperty of" && tCardName && "to tValue"

end mouseUp

This works, and shows that the referencing of these sorts of things in LC, like in HC, is not quite as they read like.

Craig


> On Oct 24, 2023, at 1:00 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I think I found a oddity in the "currentCard" property.
> 
> The documentation states that the currentCard property return the short name of the current card of a stack:
> 
> for example: put the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" into tCardName
> 
> You can then execute code such as: set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue
> 
> However, if the card does not have a name set, then current card returns "card id <idnumber>", example: card id 1002 and the above 2 lines of code return a runtime error of 'can't find card'
> 
> put the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" into tCardName
> set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue
> 
> WORKS for cards with a name
> FAILS for cards without a name (where currentCard returns 'card id <number')
> 
> I think currentCard should just return 'id 1002' rather than 'card id 1002' if a card has no name.
> 
> Trying to execute: set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue WHEN tCardName contain 'card id 1002' produces a run time error
> 
> But trying to execute: set the myProperty of cd id 1002 of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue works.
> 
> Oddly, set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue FAILS if tCardName contains "id 10001" (and yes that card with that ID exists)
> 
> Oddly again, set the myProperty of the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue DOES WORK whether they have a name or not
> 
> But again, breaking that example above (set the myProperty of the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue) into 2 lines:
> put the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" into tCardName
> set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue
> FAILS if the card has no name.
> 
> Something just seems off here?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From craig at starfirelighting.com  Tue Oct 24 14:04:32 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2023 14:04:32 -0400
Subject: Oddity in 'currentCard' function?
In-Reply-To: <1D46D0DC-CE13-43EB-A585-9B2F0238DE0F@starfirelighting.com>
References: <eaf3e2d1-542e-4f54-a14d-c37c3059a1ac@researchware.com>
 <1D46D0DC-CE13-43EB-A585-9B2F0238DE0F@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <9DA0CA3F-0203-4A95-8B25-27B6E783F8AF@starfirelighting.com>

NitPicking within myself, but I have always isolated variables in “do” constructions:
do "set the myProperty of" && tCardName && "to" && tValue

Craig

> On Oct 24, 2023, at 1:59 PM, Craig Newman <craig at starfirelighting.com> wrote:
> 
> Paul.
> 
> Having a more complete description seems right to me. You are essentially saying that if you use the moniker “the currentCard” that LC should know what you are intending, the is, the current “card”, and not the current “something else”.
> 
> It has to be one of those cases where, as Danny Goodman once said, “If a line of code seem like it ought to work but does not, try using a “do” construction to force another layer of resolution;
> 
> on mouseUp
> put the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" into tCardName
> 
> do "set the myProperty of" && tCardName && "to tValue"
> 
> end mouseUp
> 
> This works, and shows that the referencing of these sorts of things in LC, like in HC, is not quite as they read like.
> 
> Craig
> 
> 
>> On Oct 24, 2023, at 1:00 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I think I found a oddity in the "currentCard" property.
>> 
>> The documentation states that the currentCard property return the short name of the current card of a stack:
>> 
>> for example: put the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" into tCardName
>> 
>> You can then execute code such as: set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue
>> 
>> However, if the card does not have a name set, then current card returns "card id <idnumber>", example: card id 1002 and the above 2 lines of code return a runtime error of 'can't find card'
>> 
>> put the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" into tCardName
>> set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue
>> 
>> WORKS for cards with a name
>> FAILS for cards without a name (where currentCard returns 'card id <number')
>> 
>> I think currentCard should just return 'id 1002' rather than 'card id 1002' if a card has no name.
>> 
>> Trying to execute: set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue WHEN tCardName contain 'card id 1002' produces a run time error
>> 
>> But trying to execute: set the myProperty of cd id 1002 of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue works.
>> 
>> Oddly, set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue FAILS if tCardName contains "id 10001" (and yes that card with that ID exists)
>> 
>> Oddly again, set the myProperty of the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue DOES WORK whether they have a name or not
>> 
>> But again, breaking that example above (set the myProperty of the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue) into 2 lines:
>> put the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" into tCardName
>> set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue
>> FAILS if the card has no name.
>> 
>> Something just seems off here?
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Oct 24 15:21:43 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2023 14:21:43 -0500
Subject: Oddity in 'currentCard' function?
In-Reply-To: <eaf3e2d1-542e-4f54-a14d-c37c3059a1ac@researchware.com>
References: <eaf3e2d1-542e-4f54-a14d-c37c3059a1ac@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <2096ce28-a8f4-4dd0-9f6d-f17fe5f10450@hyperactivesw.com>

The behavior is consistent with all cards or controls that don't have a name. The "name" is the 
ID in that case. The best way around it is to:

   put the long id of <the object or card> into tID

That way you can refer to tID without worrying whether there's a literal name or not. So:

   put the long ID of the currentCard into tID
   set the myProperty of tID to tValue


On 10/24/23 12:00 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
> I think I found a oddity in the "currentCard" property.
> 
> The documentation states that the currentCard property return the short name of the current 
> card of a stack:
> 
> for example: put the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" into tCardName
> 
> You can then execute code such as: set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 1" to 
> tValue
> 
> However, if the card does not have a name set, then current card returns "card id <idnumber>", 
> example: card id 1002 and the above 2 lines of code return a runtime error of 'can't find card'
> 
> put the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" into tCardName
> set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue
> 
> WORKS for cards with a name
> FAILS for cards without a name (where currentCard returns 'card id <number')
> 
> I think currentCard should just return 'id 1002' rather than 'card id 1002' if a card has no name.
> 
> Trying to execute: set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue WHEN 
> tCardName contain 'card id 1002' produces a run time error
> 
> But trying to execute: set the myProperty of cd id 1002 of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue works.
> 
> Oddly, set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue FAILS if tCardName 
> contains "id 10001" (and yes that card with that ID exists)
> 
> Oddly again, set the myProperty of the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue DOES WORK 
> whether they have a name or not
> 
> But again, breaking that example above (set the myProperty of the currentCard of stack 
> "Untitled 1" to tValue) into 2 lines:
> put the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" into tCardName
> set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue
> FAILS if the card has no name.
> 
> Something just seems off here?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From brian at milby7.com  Tue Oct 24 20:44:31 2023
From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2023 20:44:31 -0400
Subject: drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) always BLACK
In-Reply-To: <8B45151C-1CBB-46D8-878D-141CFD47E99D@major-k.de>
References: <d7923bda0ded5b61113426a38c301ec2@livecode.com>
 <91CD3240-9439-4877-81AD-9F1B83E0F718@milby7.com>
 <8B45151C-1CBB-46D8-878D-141CFD47E99D@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <CA+yhkRbJegWOd85MijEZpcJGyvY4RPjy0C5XsbdBDTweBOgNCA@mail.gmail.com>

Well, it sure took me a while to get around to this.  I guess better late
than never though.  Not sure where the best place to put it, so I just
added it to my lc-misc repo on GitHub.  You can find the code here:
https://github.com/bwmilby/lc-misc/tree/master/IconDrawingLibrary

Thanks,
Brian

On Wed, Apr 6, 2022 at 3:20 PM Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Brian,
>
> > Am 06.04.2022 um 21:18 schrieb Brian Milby via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> >
> > I guess I need to make an update to this library :)
>
> yo, that would be cool! :-)
>
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Apr 6, 2022, at 1:28 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> On 2022-04-06 18:16, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
> >>> Hi all,
> >>> so sorry, looks like I completely f..... up here.
> >>> Sorry for the confusion, not may day...
> >>> See:
> >>> <https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23665>
> >>
> >> Hehe - no worries.
> >>
> >> So in answer to your original query about wanting to be able to color
> the icons - the drawing library supports the 'currentColor' attribute in
> SVG - and this is tied to the 'backgroundColor' property of the image
> object the drawing is set on.
> >>
> >> It would only take a small tweak to Brian's extension to make this work
> - adding `fill="currentColor"` to the path node it generates.
> >>
> >> Brian's extension works by fetching the path data from the IconSVG
> library, wrapping it in the necessary SVG XML, and then compiling it with
> drawingSvgCompile.
> >>
> >> Irksomely, there does not seem to be any support for marking colors in
> SVGs as 'currentColor' in any SVG editor we've come across (unless its
> deeply buried in it). So one strategy there is making sure the colors you
> want to be configurable in the SVG are set to a known unlikely random color
> (e.g. #ABCDEF), exporting as SVG XML from the editor and then just doing a
> global find/replace of (e.g.) #ABCDEF with currentColor.
> >>
> >> Warmest Regards,
> >>
> >> Mark.
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
>
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From mark at livecode.com  Wed Oct 25 00:34:53 2023
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2023 05:34:53 +0100
Subject: Oddity in 'currentCard' function?
In-Reply-To: <eaf3e2d1-542e-4f54-a14d-c37c3059a1ac@researchware.com>
References: <eaf3e2d1-542e-4f54-a14d-c37c3059a1ac@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <efb31369983cde73d27e0655ec6897c4@livecode.com>

On 2023-10-24 18:00, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
> I think I found a oddity in the "currentCard" property.
> 
> The documentation states that the currentCard property return the short 
> name of the current card of a stack:
> 
> for example: put the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" into tCardName
> 
> You can then execute code such as: set the myProperty of cd tCardName 
> of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue

...

> But again, breaking that example above (set the myProperty of the 
> currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue) into 2 lines:
> put the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" into tCardName
> set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue
> FAILS if the card has no name.
> 
> Something just seems off here?

As Jacque said, if an object has an empty name then the short name 
returns `<chunk> id <id>` (i.e. an id chunk) - this is long standing 
behavior and one which I'm not sure is entirely helpful (it should 
perhaps just return empty!).

You see the same effect in other properties which return a 'short name' 
- e.g. the menubar of a stack. So its entirely consistent with 'object 
name' properties. (In these cases there is no string which such 
properties could return which would help distinguish unnamed things and 
that could be used to resolve them in some sort of chunk in a consistent 
manner as object names can be arbitrary strings).

If you want to do stuff with the current card of a stack, then don't use 
the currentCard property - 'this card of stack ...' *is* a chunk 
reference and thus it doesn't care whether the card has a name or not.

If you want the long id of the current card of a stack to manipulate 
'out of context' then use the long id:

    put the long id of this card of stack ... into tCardId

Of course, if you really want to use the currentCard (for whatever 
reason), then you need to make sure all your cards have names (which to 
be fair, is a good habit to get into - as is naming all objects with 
some, unique, name!).

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things


From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Wed Oct 25 04:35:33 2023
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2023 11:35:33 +0300
Subject: drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) always BLACK
In-Reply-To: <CA+yhkRbJegWOd85MijEZpcJGyvY4RPjy0C5XsbdBDTweBOgNCA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d7923bda0ded5b61113426a38c301ec2@livecode.com>
 <91CD3240-9439-4877-81AD-9F1B83E0F718@milby7.com>
 <8B45151C-1CBB-46D8-878D-141CFD47E99D@major-k.de>
 <CA+yhkRbJegWOd85MijEZpcJGyvY4RPjy0C5XsbdBDTweBOgNCA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b753cafd-d6bb-4db8-b0b7-5839d69c3a24@gmail.com>

I should be grateful if you could explain the licensing on your work.

Best, Richmond.

On 25.10.23 3:44, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote:
> Well, it sure took me a while to get around to this.  I guess better late
> than never though.  Not sure where the best place to put it, so I just
> added it to my lc-misc repo on GitHub.  You can find the code here:
> https://github.com/bwmilby/lc-misc/tree/master/IconDrawingLibrary
>
> Thanks,
> Brian
>
> On Wed, Apr 6, 2022 at 3:20PM Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Brian,
>>
>>> Am 06.04.2022 um 21:18 schrieb Brian Milby via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> I guess I need to make an update to this library :)
>> yo, that would be cool! :-)
>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Apr 6, 2022, at 1:28 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2022-04-06 18:16, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>> so sorry, looks like I completely f..... up here.
>>>>> Sorry for the confusion, not may day...
>>>>> See:
>>>>> <https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23665>
>>>> Hehe - no worries.
>>>>
>>>> So in answer to your original query about wanting to be able to color
>> the icons - the drawing library supports the 'currentColor' attribute in
>> SVG - and this is tied to the 'backgroundColor' property of the image
>> object the drawing is set on.
>>>> It would only take a small tweak to Brian's extension to make this work
>> - adding `fill="currentColor"` to the path node it generates.
>>>> Brian's extension works by fetching the path data from the IconSVG
>> library, wrapping it in the necessary SVG XML, and then compiling it with
>> drawingSvgCompile.
>>>> Irksomely, there does not seem to be any support for marking colors in
>> SVGs as 'currentColor' in any SVG editor we've come across (unless its
>> deeply buried in it). So one strategy there is making sure the colors you
>> want to be configurable in the SVG are set to a known unlikely random color
>> (e.g. #ABCDEF), exporting as SVG XML from the editor and then just doing a
>> global find/replace of (e.g.) #ABCDEF with currentColor.
>>>> Warmest Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Mark.
>> Best
>>
>> Klaus
>>
>> --
>> Klaus Major
>> https://www.major-k.de
>> https://www.major-k.de/bass
>> klaus at major-k.de
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From paul at researchware.com  Wed Oct 25 08:57:26 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2023 08:57:26 -0400
Subject: Oddity in 'currentCard' function?
In-Reply-To: <efb31369983cde73d27e0655ec6897c4@livecode.com>
References: <eaf3e2d1-542e-4f54-a14d-c37c3059a1ac@researchware.com>
 <efb31369983cde73d27e0655ec6897c4@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <b19be346-edf3-4e90-af5f-430817a15680@researchware.com>

On 10/25/2023 12:34 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:
>
> If you want to do stuff with the current card of a stack, then don't 
> use the currentCard property - 'this card of stack ...' *is* a chunk 
> reference and thus it doesn't care whether the card has a name or not.
>

Okay, I get that <object> id <number> is a legacy return value when 
there is no name.

I'd just like to confirm that:

this card of stack "X"
and
the currentCard of stack "X"

refer to the same card, even if in different ways (actual object 
reference vs short name)?

If so, I will switch to using "this card of stack". I had thought that 
the 'this card' was always the card in the object hierarchy of the 
object the script was running in and had forgotten that you could say 
'this card of stack ...' to reference the active card in another stack.



From brian at milby7.com  Wed Oct 25 10:15:23 2023
From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2023 10:15:23 -0400
Subject: drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) always BLACK
In-Reply-To: <b753cafd-d6bb-4db8-b0b7-5839d69c3a24@gmail.com>
References: <b753cafd-d6bb-4db8-b0b7-5839d69c3a24@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ADAC759A-1F11-4328-A125-518E18FFD68D@milby7.com>

This code is MIT license, so freely usable.  It does rely on code from HQ, but should be usable on either the open source or commercial versions.

Brian Milby
brian at milby7.com

> On Oct 25, 2023, at 4:36 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I should be grateful if you could explain the licensing on your work.
> 
> Best, Richmond.
> 
>> On 25.10.23 3:44, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote:
>> Well, it sure took me a while to get around to this.  I guess better late
>> than never though.  Not sure where the best place to put it, so I just
>> added it to my lc-misc repo on GitHub.  You can find the code here:
>> https://github.com/bwmilby/lc-misc/tree/master/IconDrawingLibrary
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Brian
>> 
>> On Wed, Apr 6, 2022 at 3:20 PM Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Brian,
>>> 
>>>> Am 06.04.2022 um 21:18 schrieb Brian Milby via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>> I guess I need to make an update to this library :)
>>> yo, that would be cool! :-)
>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On Apr 6, 2022, at 1:28 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 2022-04-06 18:16, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>> so sorry, looks like I completely f..... up here.
>>>>>> Sorry for the confusion, not may day...
>>>>>> See:
>>>>>> <https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23665>
>>>>> Hehe - no worries.
>>>>> 
>>>>> So in answer to your original query about wanting to be able to color
>>> the icons - the drawing library supports the 'currentColor' attribute in
>>> SVG - and this is tied to the 'backgroundColor' property of the image
>>> object the drawing is set on.
>>>>> It would only take a small tweak to Brian's extension to make this work
>>> - adding `fill="currentColor"` to the path node it generates.
>>>>> Brian's extension works by fetching the path data from the IconSVG
>>> library, wrapping it in the necessary SVG XML, and then compiling it with
>>> drawingSvgCompile.
>>>>> Irksomely, there does not seem to be any support for marking colors in
>>> SVGs as 'currentColor' in any SVG editor we've come across (unless its
>>> deeply buried in it). So one strategy there is making sure the colors you
>>> want to be configurable in the SVG are set to a known unlikely random color
>>> (e.g. #ABCDEF), exporting as SVG XML from the editor and then just doing a
>>> global find/replace of (e.g.) #ABCDEF with currentColor.
>>>>> Warmest Regards,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Mark.
>>> Best
>>> 
>>> Klaus
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Klaus Major
>>> https://www.major-k.de
>>> https://www.major-k.de/bass
>>> klaus at major-k.de
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From craig at starfirelighting.com  Wed Oct 25 10:41:23 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2023 10:41:23 -0400
Subject: Oddity in 'currentCard' function?
In-Reply-To: <b19be346-edf3-4e90-af5f-430817a15680@researchware.com>
References: <eaf3e2d1-542e-4f54-a14d-c37c3059a1ac@researchware.com>
 <efb31369983cde73d27e0655ec6897c4@livecode.com>
 <b19be346-edf3-4e90-af5f-430817a15680@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <4384447E-5A17-4E77-A579-47BAE284574E@starfirelighting.com>

Paul.

The construction "answer this card of stack “X” does not work if you are not on stack “X”:

answer the  currentCard of stack  “X”  —works

answer the name of this card of stack “X —works

answer this card of stack “X”—Nope



Craig




> On Oct 25, 2023, at 8:57 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> On 10/25/2023 12:34 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:
>> 
>> If you want to do stuff with the current card of a stack, then don't use the currentCard property - 'this card of stack ...' *is* a chunk reference and thus it doesn't care whether the card has a name or not.
>> 
> 
> Okay, I get that <object> id <number> is a legacy return value when there is no name.
> 
> I'd just like to confirm that:
> 
> this card of stack "X"
> and
> the currentCard of stack "X"
> 
> refer to the same card, even if in different ways (actual object reference vs short name)?
> 
> If so, I will switch to using "this card of stack". I had thought that the 'this card' was always the card in the object hierarchy of the object the script was running in and had forgotten that you could say 'this card of stack ...' to reference the active card in another stack.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Wed Oct 25 14:34:24 2023
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2023 21:34:24 +0300
Subject: drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) always BLACK
In-Reply-To: <ADAC759A-1F11-4328-A125-518E18FFD68D@milby7.com>
References: <b753cafd-d6bb-4db8-b0b7-5839d69c3a24@gmail.com>
 <ADAC759A-1F11-4328-A125-518E18FFD68D@milby7.com>
Message-ID: <72ed615d-524b-45e9-8962-d8ba79b9121d@gmail.com>

Thank you very much.

Best, Richmond.

On 25.10.23 17:15, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote:
> This code is MIT license, so freely usable.  It does rely on code from HQ, but should be usable on either the open source or commercial versions.
>
> Brian Milby
> brian at milby7.com
>
>> On Oct 25, 2023, at 4:36 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> I should be grateful if you could explain the licensing on your work.
>>
>> Best, Richmond.
>>
>>> On 25.10.23 3:44, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Well, it sure took me a while to get around to this.  I guess better late
>>> than never though.  Not sure where the best place to put it, so I just
>>> added it to my lc-misc repo on GitHub.  You can find the code here:
>>> https://github.com/bwmilby/lc-misc/tree/master/IconDrawingLibrary
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Brian
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 6, 2022 at 3:20PM Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Brian,
>>>>
>>>>> Am 06.04.2022 um 21:18 schrieb Brian Milby via use-livecode <
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>>> I guess I need to make an update to this library :)
>>>> yo, that would be cool! :-)
>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Apr 6, 2022, at 1:28 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2022-04-06 18:16, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>> so sorry, looks like I completely f..... up here.
>>>>>>> Sorry for the confusion, not may day...
>>>>>>> See:
>>>>>>> <https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23665>
>>>>>> Hehe - no worries.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So in answer to your original query about wanting to be able to color
>>>> the icons - the drawing library supports the 'currentColor' attribute in
>>>> SVG - and this is tied to the 'backgroundColor' property of the image
>>>> object the drawing is set on.
>>>>>> It would only take a small tweak to Brian's extension to make this work
>>>> - adding `fill="currentColor"` to the path node it generates.
>>>>>> Brian's extension works by fetching the path data from the IconSVG
>>>> library, wrapping it in the necessary SVG XML, and then compiling it with
>>>> drawingSvgCompile.
>>>>>> Irksomely, there does not seem to be any support for marking colors in
>>>> SVGs as 'currentColor' in any SVG editor we've come across (unless its
>>>> deeply buried in it). So one strategy there is making sure the colors you
>>>> want to be configurable in the SVG are set to a known unlikely random color
>>>> (e.g. #ABCDEF), exporting as SVG XML from the editor and then just doing a
>>>> global find/replace of (e.g.) #ABCDEF with currentColor.
>>>>>> Warmest Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mark.
>>>> Best
>>>>
>>>> Klaus
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Klaus Major
>>>> https://www.major-k.de
>>>> https://www.major-k.de/bass
>>>> klaus at major-k.de
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From mark at livecode.com  Thu Oct 26 04:40:11 2023
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2023 09:40:11 +0100
Subject: Oddity in 'currentCard' function?
In-Reply-To: <4384447E-5A17-4E77-A579-47BAE284574E@starfirelighting.com>
References: <eaf3e2d1-542e-4f54-a14d-c37c3059a1ac@researchware.com>
 <efb31369983cde73d27e0655ec6897c4@livecode.com>
 <b19be346-edf3-4e90-af5f-430817a15680@researchware.com>
 <4384447E-5A17-4E77-A579-47BAE284574E@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <2e27e8675af64c5959564a1d0bf5e79c@livecode.com>

On 2023-10-25 15:41, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote:
> Paul.
> 
> The construction "answer this card of stack X does not work if you 
> are not on stack X:
> 
> answer the  currentCard of stack  X  works
> 
> answer the name of this card of stack X works
> 
> answer this card of stack XNope

'this card of this stack' is an object reference - when evaluated in 
contexts which don't expect an object reference, object references 
return the *content* of the object, or an error (if the object has no 
content)... Only buttons and fields have content - in which case 
evaluating them returns the 'text' of the object.

Most things *don't* expect an object reference - places that do are 
where an object needs to be acted on, rather than a value being needed.

For example:

   set the X of <object-reference>
   put exists(<object-reference>)
   put there is an <object-reference>
   answer <string>

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things


From mark at livecode.com  Thu Oct 26 04:44:55 2023
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2023 09:44:55 +0100
Subject: Oddity in 'currentCard' function?
In-Reply-To: <b19be346-edf3-4e90-af5f-430817a15680@researchware.com>
References: <eaf3e2d1-542e-4f54-a14d-c37c3059a1ac@researchware.com>
 <efb31369983cde73d27e0655ec6897c4@livecode.com>
 <b19be346-edf3-4e90-af5f-430817a15680@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <f4440114f151d6ceb32d6f4afa4ffe7c@livecode.com>

On 2023-10-25 13:57, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
> On 10/25/2023 12:34 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:
>> 
>> If you want to do stuff with the current card of a stack, then don't 
>> use the currentCard property - 'this card of stack ...' *is* a chunk 
>> reference and thus it doesn't care whether the card has a name or not.
>> 
> 
> Okay, I get that <object> id <number> is a legacy return value when 
> there is no name.
> 
> I'd just like to confirm that:
> 
> this card of stack "X"
> and
> the currentCard of stack "X"
> 
> refer to the same card, even if in different ways (actual object 
> reference vs short name)?

Yes - 'the currentCard of stack "X"' is equivalent to 'the short name of 
this card of stack X'.

The currentCard property was added a very long time ago to be used by a 
project which never saw the light of day (I'm not sure I remember what 
it was now!)...

There was (apparently!) a need at that time to be able to switch cards 
in a stack *without* the stack coming to front (which is what happens 
when you use the only alternative 'go card ... of stack').

It was added as a property as that was the quickest/fastest way to do 
so, for something which I don't remember being entirely convinced by at 
the time - it wasn't documented for a long time, but then I think 
someone asked about it and it had been there long enough and it doesn't 
do any harm really so it was documented.

Basically, its main use was for changing card (i.e. as a settable 
property); rather than finding out what card was current (since that was 
already catered for via interrogating 'this card of this stack').

With hindsight, if the ability to switch cards without bringing the 
stack to front is indeed useful then it should probably be provided via 
a new command, or an augmentation of the 'go' command (like we have go 
visible / go invisible).

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things


From paul at researchware.com  Thu Oct 26 07:37:30 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2023 07:37:30 -0400
Subject: Oddity in 'currentCard' function?
In-Reply-To: <f4440114f151d6ceb32d6f4afa4ffe7c@livecode.com>
References: <eaf3e2d1-542e-4f54-a14d-c37c3059a1ac@researchware.com>
 <efb31369983cde73d27e0655ec6897c4@livecode.com>
 <b19be346-edf3-4e90-af5f-430817a15680@researchware.com>
 <f4440114f151d6ceb32d6f4afa4ffe7c@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <ad6d2436-f02f-4ec0-9bf8-b1085370c599@researchware.com>

On 10/26/2023 4:44 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:
> Basically, its [currentCard] main use was for changing card (i.e. as a 
> settable property); rather than finding out what card was current 
> (since that was already catered for via interrogating 'this card of 
> this stack'). 

FYI - this is exactly what we use currentCard for in our application - 
change the card that will be displayed when a user shows/opens a stack 
to match a change in user data when the stack is not actually open yet.


From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Oct 26 10:56:37 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2023 16:56:37 +0200
Subject: some mobilecontrolprops do not work on Android?
Message-ID: <0C24DFA6-64EB-4ABC-B76B-755F82D1D96C@major-k.de>

Hi friends,

I (now successfully :) create a player for MP3 playback,
however some properties do not seem to work on Android,
although the Dictionary states otherwise!?
----------------------------------------------
 mobilecontrolCreate "player", "mplayer"
 mobileControlSet "mplayer", "visible", TRUE
 mobileControlSet "mplayer", "rect", (the rect of grc "player")

## Does nothing:
 mobileControlSet "mplayer", "backgroundcolor", "213,143,116"
   
 mobileControlSet "mplayer", "showController", TRUE
 mobileControlSet "mplayer", "filename", tURL
 
## Whatever I set here, on Android I always get a black rect with 
## the player controls inside of it.
 mobileControlSet "mplayer", "opaque", FALSE

## Whatever value I enter here, nothing will change the apprearance
 mobileControlSet "mplayer", "alpha", 127
----------------------------------------------
Before I report this, is this a dictionary bug or what?
Or is it just me again? :-D


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From ahsoftware at sonic.net  Thu Oct 26 12:17:36 2023
From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2023 09:17:36 -0700
Subject: Oddity in 'currentCard' function?
In-Reply-To: <f4440114f151d6ceb32d6f4afa4ffe7c@livecode.com>
References: <eaf3e2d1-542e-4f54-a14d-c37c3059a1ac@researchware.com>
 <efb31369983cde73d27e0655ec6897c4@livecode.com>
 <b19be346-edf3-4e90-af5f-430817a15680@researchware.com>
 <f4440114f151d6ceb32d6f4afa4ffe7c@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <bf4111f4-4933-4779-ad81-f4c4bf7f5210@sonic.net>

On 10/26/23 01:44, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:

> Basically, its main use was for changing card (i.e. as a settable 
> property); rather than finding out what card was current (since that was 
> already catered for via interrogating 'this card of this stack').

So basically to stay out of trouble "currentcard" should be thought of 
as a write-only property?

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Oct 26 15:14:24 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2023 14:14:24 -0500
Subject: some mobilecontrolprops do not work on Android?
In-Reply-To: <0C24DFA6-64EB-4ABC-B76B-755F82D1D96C@major-k.de>
References: <0C24DFA6-64EB-4ABC-B76B-755F82D1D96C@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <89cef04a-ca0f-4a44-9e16-a894af804278@hyperactivesw.com>

The backgroundColor and alpha settings might be a dictionary error. The opaque setting says it 
is available only for iOS.

I think the appearance of mobile players is set directly by the OS now, so the color and 
transparency may not be available on Android.

On 10/26/23 9:56 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi friends,
> 
> I (now successfully :) create a player for MP3 playback,
> however some properties do not seem to work on Android,
> although the Dictionary states otherwise!?
> ----------------------------------------------
>   mobilecontrolCreate "player", "mplayer"
>   mobileControlSet "mplayer", "visible", TRUE
>   mobileControlSet "mplayer", "rect", (the rect of grc "player")
> 
> ## Does nothing:
>   mobileControlSet "mplayer", "backgroundcolor", "213,143,116"
>     
>   mobileControlSet "mplayer", "showController", TRUE
>   mobileControlSet "mplayer", "filename", tURL
>   
> ## Whatever I set here, on Android I always get a black rect with
> ## the player controls inside of it.
>   mobileControlSet "mplayer", "opaque", FALSE
> 
> ## Whatever value I enter here, nothing will change the apprearance
>   mobileControlSet "mplayer", "alpha", 127
> ----------------------------------------------
> Before I report this, is this a dictionary bug or what?
> Or is it just me again? :-D
> 
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Oct 26 15:26:47 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2023 14:26:47 -0500
Subject: Oddity in 'currentCard' function?
In-Reply-To: <bf4111f4-4933-4779-ad81-f4c4bf7f5210@sonic.net>
References: <eaf3e2d1-542e-4f54-a14d-c37c3059a1ac@researchware.com>
 <efb31369983cde73d27e0655ec6897c4@livecode.com>
 <b19be346-edf3-4e90-af5f-430817a15680@researchware.com>
 <f4440114f151d6ceb32d6f4afa4ffe7c@livecode.com>
 <bf4111f4-4933-4779-ad81-f4c4bf7f5210@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <2f384bd9-43bb-47f5-93b5-3844c6572a3f@hyperactivesw.com>

On 10/26/23 11:17 AM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote:
> So basically to stay out of trouble "currentcard" should be thought of as a write-only property?

It can be read if you supply syntax that requests a legal value; i.e.:

   the name of the currentCard of stack X
   the loc of the currentCard of stack X
   the backColor of the currentCard of stack X

Cards themselves have no intrinsic value (what would they return?) but their properties do. 
Similarly, what would expect to see if you:

    answer stack X

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Oct 26 15:32:36 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2023 14:32:36 -0500
Subject: Oddity in 'currentCard' function?
In-Reply-To: <2f384bd9-43bb-47f5-93b5-3844c6572a3f@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <eaf3e2d1-542e-4f54-a14d-c37c3059a1ac@researchware.com>
 <efb31369983cde73d27e0655ec6897c4@livecode.com>
 <b19be346-edf3-4e90-af5f-430817a15680@researchware.com>
 <f4440114f151d6ceb32d6f4afa4ffe7c@livecode.com>
 <bf4111f4-4933-4779-ad81-f4c4bf7f5210@sonic.net>
 <2f384bd9-43bb-47f5-93b5-3844c6572a3f@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <4165b148-62d3-4329-8c24-c6bfcdbff996@hyperactivesw.com>

On 10/26/23 2:26 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
>>
> 
> It can be read if you supply syntax that requests a legal value; i.e.:
> 
>    the name of the currentCard of stack X
>    the loc of the currentCard of stack X
>    the backColor of the currentCard of stack X

Oops. That's wrong. It errors. This:

   put the loc of cd the currentcard of stack X
   etc...

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From klaus at major-k.de  Fri Oct 27 09:19:21 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2023 15:19:21 +0200
Subject: some mobilecontrolprops do not work on Android?
In-Reply-To: <89cef04a-ca0f-4a44-9e16-a894af804278@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <0C24DFA6-64EB-4ABC-B76B-755F82D1D96C@major-k.de>
 <89cef04a-ca0f-4a44-9e16-a894af804278@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <138D7891-3C34-4DB6-B1B4-43247FC78758@major-k.de>

Hi Jacque,

> Am 26.10.2023 um 21:14 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> The backgroundColor and alpha settings might be a dictionary error.

OK, will report that.

> The opaque setting says it is available only for iOS.

Yes, my fault.

> I think the appearance of mobile players is set directly by the OS now, so the color and transparency may not be available on Android.

That's what i guessed.

Thanks!

> On 10/26/23 9:56 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hi friends,
>> I (now successfully :) create a player for MP3 playback,
>> however some properties do not seem to work on Android,
>> although the Dictionary states otherwise!?
>> ----------------------------------------------
>>  mobilecontrolCreate "player", "mplayer"
>>  mobileControlSet "mplayer", "visible", TRUE
>>  mobileControlSet "mplayer", "rect", (the rect of grc "player")
>> ## Does nothing:
>>  mobileControlSet "mplayer", "backgroundcolor", "213,143,116"
>>      mobileControlSet "mplayer", "showController", TRUE
>>  mobileControlSet "mplayer", "filename", tURL
>>  ## Whatever I set here, on Android I always get a black rect with
>> ## the player controls inside of it.
>>  mobileControlSet "mplayer", "opaque", FALSE
>> ## Whatever value I enter here, nothing will change the apprearance
>>  mobileControlSet "mplayer", "alpha", 127
>> ----------------------------------------------
>> Before I report this, is this a dictionary bug or what?
>> Or is it just me again? :-D

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From runrevron at gmail.com  Sat Oct 28 04:38:15 2023
From: runrevron at gmail.com (ron barber)
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2023 16:38:15 +0800
Subject: Open new windows as a tab not working?
Message-ID: <7BBAE6EE-F548-49B0-BD52-73034B9833C8@gmail.com>

I had a standalone built using Mac 10.14; LC 9.03.  Sonoma broke the menus (actually the app would not even open) so I upgraded LC to 9.6.10 and that solved the menu problem.

However now a user is reporting and I have confirmed that the option to open new windows as a tab in the existing window no longer works. That is, LC 9.0.3 build respected the tab setting but the 9.6.10 build does not. This is handled by the system preferences in Dock:  “Prefer tabs when opening documents” .

Is this a bug or is there a workaround or do I need to upgrade LC?

Thanks for your suggestions
Ron

From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au  Sun Oct 29 20:00:00 2023
From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2023 11:00:00 +1100
Subject: arrayToJSON not working in lcserver on Linux - resolved
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1697731201.435780.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.1.1697731201.435780.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <21652F76-FFD4-444B-A700-8BE2DEC1A115@optusnet.com.au>

Panos advises me that indeed arrayToJSON does not work out of the box in lcserver, although it does work in the IDE and standalones. And that this is not a bug.

Let’s call it a lacuna, I suggest in code, Panos concedes in documentation. 

The story is that the mergJSON library, which is accessed from LC on all platforms using the mergJSONEncode function, only handles 1-dimensional arrays. The arrayToJSON encoder, and the corresponding decoder, use recursive loops to extend to multidimensional arrays. These convenience handlers are in a stack mergJSONLibrary.livescodecript, which is included in the IDE and standalones, but is not (*even* - my emphasis)  distributed with LCserver.

So to use arrayToJSON from LCserver one can upload the library stack - available at https://github.com/montegoulding/mergJSON/blob/master/mergJSON/mergJSONLibrary.livecodescript
- and then call “start using…”. Or,  more simply, copy the handlers from that stack into your own code.

An addition to the  dictionary entries for arrayToJSON and JSONToArray is definitely in order. Actually, the two handlers in question can be found in the mergJSONEncode and mergJSONDecode dictionary entries, if you first find those entries.

I remain rather puzzled that the multi-dimensional array handlers were not embedded in the mergJSON C-code library in the first place by Monte or LC when they took it over. Blazing speed when communicating with javascript, which is where these calls would most likely be used particularly with LCServer, would seem to be imperative. Maybe the internal implementation of arrays was yet not settled? Whatever, a fix for this code lacuna would be nice, if unlikely to happen.

[Actually in my case I wasn't talking to javascript. All I wanted was a way to transport an array from the server back to a client.  The  serialisation arrayEncode worked for me once I realised the keys and elements of the array all had to be in utf-16 encoding, anything in utf-8 could cause the decoding to fail. And for safety in sending over the net I also base64encoded - was this last step necessary or just paranoia?]

Neville Smythe


 








From monte.goulding at livecode.com  Sun Oct 29 21:07:22 2023
From: monte.goulding at livecode.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2023 12:07:22 +1100
Subject: arrayToJSON not working in lcserver on Linux - resolved
In-Reply-To: <21652F76-FFD4-444B-A700-8BE2DEC1A115@optusnet.com.au>
References: <mailman.1.1697731201.435780.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <21652F76-FFD4-444B-A700-8BE2DEC1A115@optusnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <5E4ED87D-030F-404B-86E0-348396310405@livecode.com>


> On 30 Oct 2023, at 11:00 am, Neville Smythe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I remain rather puzzled that the multi-dimensional array handlers were not embedded in the mergJSON C-code library in the first place by Monte or LC when they took it over. Blazing speed when communicating with javascript, which is where these calls would most likely be used particularly with LCServer, would seem to be imperative. Maybe the internal implementation of arrays was yet not settled? Whatever, a fix for this code lacuna would be nice, if unlikely to happen.

Hi Neville

There is no multi-dimensional array support in the externals API. If I were implementing mergJSON from scratch now I would use LCB and direct calls to Jansson. I don’t think we could just change mergJSON in a backwards compatible way unfortunately. I agree our server docs should detail the installation of any support libraries for included externals and it would likely be helpful if server had a built in extension loader so you can just put extensions in a folder near it.

Cheers

Monte

From runrevron at gmail.com  Sun Oct 29 21:35:53 2023
From: runrevron at gmail.com (ron barber)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2023 09:35:53 +0800
Subject: Open new windows as  tab not working?
Message-ID: <FF366D35-5141-40E4-87AC-99B91592CE97@gmail.com>

I had a standalone built using Mac 10.14; LC 9.03.  Sonoma broke the menus (actually the app would not even open) so I upgraded LC to 9.6.10 and that solved the menu problem.

However now a user is reporting and I have confirmed that the option to open new windows as a tab in the existing window no longer works. That is, LC 9.0.3 build respected the tab setting but the 9.6.10 build does not. This is handled by the system preferences in Dock:  “Prefer tabs when opening documents” .

Is this a bug or is there a workaround or do I need to upgrade LC?

Thanks for your suggestions
Ron

From dvglasgow at gmail.com  Mon Oct 30 13:17:46 2023
From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David Glasgow)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2023 17:17:46 +0000
Subject: Filter with wildcards
Message-ID: <007A938B-3793-4D4A-ACAB-58A13E559AA9@gmail.com>

Hi folks,

I am doing the above and struggling with an oddity that I can’t find guidance on on Livecode or wider wildcard stuff

A simple example is I am searching text messages for 'with you' or 'with u’

so I use the wildcard form

*with [you,u]*

That finds all examples of both just fine.  However, it also finds ‘with unlimited cheese’ and 'with us’, ‘with yours’ etc.  so I want a space after both u

When I put two spaces inside the square brackets after each string, the search still works but spaces seem to be ignored (so still finds the above resamples I don’t want).

If I put a single space after the brackets the first bracketed string is ignored and the filter only finds “with u “

Hope someone can help me stop pulling my baffled face

Cheers

David Glasgow



From craig at starfirelighting.com  Mon Oct 30 14:11:35 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2023 14:11:35 -0400
Subject: Filter with wildcards
In-Reply-To: <007A938B-3793-4D4A-ACAB-58A13E559AA9@gmail.com>
References: <007A938B-3793-4D4A-ACAB-58A13E559AA9@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EF7F91D8-E5A8-43B1-8810-0F9A2A76467D@starfirelighting.com>

Have not played with a method of keeping it all in one line. But can you filter twice, storing the first result and then running it again?

Craig

> On Oct 30, 2023, at 1:17 PM, David Glasgow via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi folks,
> 
> I am doing the above and struggling with an oddity that I can’t find guidance on on Livecode or wider wildcard stuff
> 
> A simple example is I am searching text messages for 'with you' or 'with u’
> 
> so I use the wildcard form
> 
> *with [you,u]*
> 
> That finds all examples of both just fine.  However, it also finds ‘with unlimited cheese’ and 'with us’, ‘with yours’ etc.  so I want a space after both u
> 
> When I put two spaces inside the square brackets after each string, the search still works but spaces seem to be ignored (so still finds the above resamples I don’t want).
> 
> If I put a single space after the brackets the first bracketed string is ignored and the filter only finds “with u “
> 
> Hope someone can help me stop pulling my baffled face
> 
> Cheers
> 
> David Glasgow
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Mon Oct 30 14:30:14 2023
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2023 20:30:14 +0200
Subject: Filter with wildcards
In-Reply-To: <007A938B-3793-4D4A-ACAB-58A13E559AA9@gmail.com>
References: <007A938B-3793-4D4A-ACAB-58A13E559AA9@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <423a00c1-84de-40ec-acc0-046f19402eaa@gmail.com>

OK: well I had a bash with a set like this:

with unlimited cheese

with you

with u

with udders clagged with glaur

with youthful naivety

and your filter grabbed all of them. :(

I tried this:

with"with [you, u,]*"

and got the same.

On reading in the dictionary I found this:

filtertVar with"[az]*"-- tVar contains all property names beginning with 
a or z

and the problematic phrase is 'beginning with'.

On 30.10.23 19:17, David Glasgow via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> I am doing the above and struggling with an oddity that I cant find guidance on on Livecode or wider wildcard stuff
>
> A simple example is I am searching text messages for 'with you' or 'with u
>
> so I use the wildcard form
>
> *with [you,u]*
>
> That finds all examples of both just fine.  However, it also finds with unlimited cheese and 'with us, with yours etc.  so I want a space after both u
>
> When I put two spaces inside the square brackets after each string, the search still works but spaces seem to be ignored (so still finds the above resamples I dont want).
>
> If I put a single space after the brackets the first bracketed string is ignored and the filter only finds with u 
>
> Hope someone can help me stop pulling my baffled face
>
> Cheers
>
> David Glasgow
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Mon Oct 30 14:48:00 2023
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2023 20:48:00 +0200
Subject: Filter with wildcards
In-Reply-To: <EF7F91D8-E5A8-43B1-8810-0F9A2A76467D@starfirelighting.com>
References: <007A938B-3793-4D4A-ACAB-58A13E559AA9@gmail.com>
 <EF7F91D8-E5A8-43B1-8810-0F9A2A76467D@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <d321d079-119e-4ebf-9c82-9794ecb983a8@gmail.com>

Oddly enough a matchChunk expression with "with you$" pulls out all the 
'with you' stuff and excludes this sort of thing: 'with youthful 
naivety' . . . which is marvellous

But a matchChunk expression with "with u$" catches nothing!

On 30.10.23 20:11, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote:
> Have not played with a method of keeping it all in one line. But can you filter twice, storing the first result and then running it again?
>
> Craig
>
>> On Oct 30, 2023, at 1:17 PM, David Glasgow via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> I am doing the above and struggling with an oddity that I cant find guidance on on Livecode or wider wildcard stuff
>>
>> A simple example is I am searching text messages for 'with you' or 'with u
>>
>> so I use the wildcard form
>>
>> *with [you,u]*
>>
>> That finds all examples of both just fine.  However, it also finds with unlimited cheese and 'with us, with yours etc.  so I want a space after both u
>>
>> When I put two spaces inside the square brackets after each string, the search still works but spaces seem to be ignored (so still finds the above resamples I dont want).
>>
>> If I put a single space after the brackets the first bracketed string is ignored and the filter only finds with u 
>>
>> Hope someone can help me stop pulling my baffled face
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> David Glasgow
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Mon Oct 30 15:06:14 2023
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2023 21:06:14 +0200
Subject: Filter with wildcards
In-Reply-To: <007A938B-3793-4D4A-ACAB-58A13E559AA9@gmail.com>
References: <007A938B-3793-4D4A-ACAB-58A13E559AA9@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3e1e4fd1-bd7d-428a-8e72-adcf7dc75008@gmail.com>

I think that matchText is what you are looking for.

I have a proof stack which I shall upload to the forums, as obviously 
this is not possible here:

https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=38698

Best, Richmond Mathewson.

On 30.10.23 19:17, David Glasgow via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> I am doing the above and struggling with an oddity that I cant find guidance on on Livecode or wider wildcard stuff
>
> A simple example is I am searching text messages for 'with you' or 'with u
>
> so I use the wildcard form
>
> *with [you,u]*
>
> That finds all examples of both just fine.  However, it also finds with unlimited cheese and 'with us, with yours etc.  so I want a space after both u
>
> When I put two spaces inside the square brackets after each string, the search still works but spaces seem to be ignored (so still finds the above resamples I dont want).
>
> If I put a single space after the brackets the first bracketed string is ignored and the filter only finds with u 
>
> Hope someone can help me stop pulling my baffled face
>
> Cheers
>
> David Glasgow
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From mark at livecode.com  Mon Oct 30 15:29:28 2023
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2023 19:29:28 +0000
Subject: Filter with wildcards
In-Reply-To: <007A938B-3793-4D4A-ACAB-58A13E559AA9@gmail.com>
References: <007A938B-3793-4D4A-ACAB-58A13E559AA9@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8241BF1B-50E8-409A-A4BF-621CAEE56D37@livecode.com>

The filter command has had a ‘with[out] regex’ form for a long time - so I’d use a regex instead :)

(I’m pretty sure [ ] is a set of characters to match, rather than a list of sub strings, in wildcard expressions)

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 30 Oct 2023, at 17:19, David Glasgow via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi folks,
> 
> I am doing the above and struggling with an oddity that I can’t find guidance on on Livecode or wider wildcard stuff
> 
> A simple example is I am searching text messages for 'with you' or 'with u’
> 
> so I use the wildcard form
> 
> *with [you,u]*
> 
> That finds all examples of both just fine.  However, it also finds ‘with unlimited cheese’ and 'with us’, ‘with yours’ etc.  so I want a space after both u
> 
> When I put two spaces inside the square brackets after each string, the search still works but spaces seem to be ignored (so still finds the above resamples I don’t want).
> 
> If I put a single space after the brackets the first bracketed string is ignored and the filter only finds “with u “
> 
> Hope someone can help me stop pulling my baffled face
> 
> Cheers
> 
> David Glasgow
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au  Tue Oct 31 16:26:20 2023
From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe)
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2023 07:26:20 +1100
Subject: Filter with wildcards
Message-ID: <4EFDA632-E545-4A80-B3C4-EF2121354228@optusnet.com.au>

Reglar expressions is definitely the way to go

So you want to catch any number of characters
.*
Followed by the string “with “
.*with 
Followed by either “you” or “u”
.*with (you|u)
Followed by a space and then any umber of characters, giving
.*with (you|u) .*

Except you might want to look for lines ending in with you, or a period
.*with (you|u)( .*|\.|$)

And what about “With You”. Since regex is case sensitive by default 
(?i).*with (you|u)( .*|\.|$)

Filter tList with regex "(?i).*with (you|u)( .*|\.|$)"

Writing this in a rush so I hope I haven’t got that wrong

Neville Smythe





From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au  Tue Oct 31 16:37:41 2023
From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe)
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2023 07:37:41 +1100
Subject: Filter with wildcards
Message-ID: <F7AE017D-19F2-46B8-B065-DA3230C5E155@optusnet.com.au>

Filter tList with regex "(?i).*with (you|u)( .*|\.|$)"

I did forget something … wth you might be folllowed by a comma or colon or something so the last brackets should search for either any non alphabetic character or the end of line, so think (going from memory here)

Filter tList with regex "(?i).*with (you|u)([^a-zA-Z]|$)”


Neville Smythe





From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au  Tue Oct 31 16:59:07 2023
From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe)
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2023 07:59:07 +1100
Subject: Filter with wildcards
Message-ID: <CE865EE3-2043-4847-880D-76BD96908352@optusnet.com.au>

Forgot any number of other chars after the non-numeric character

Filter tList with regex "(?i).*with (you|u)([^a-zA-Z].*|$)”

Now I’ve really got to go … hope I’ve got it all right this time! 

Neville Smythe





From scott at elementarysoftware.com  Sun Oct  1 04:07:05 2023
From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (scott at elementarysoftware.com)
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2023 01:07:05 -0700
Subject: Samsung Galaxy Android Nav Bar
Message-ID: <F559622C-EAFE-4B0E-9D0A-F41913AC2B1A@elementarysoftware.com>

I’m having trouble with the on-screen Navigation Bar at the bottom of the Android screen not being detected correctly on some devices (Samsung Galaxy S22 for instance). When positioning controls based on < the working screenRect > I end up with app controls that I position at the bottom of the screen being partially obscured by the Android NavBar. (I did also try < effective working screenRect > just in case but that didn’t help either… just like it wasn’t supposed to  :- )

I suppose this may have been an issue for a long time and I’ve just never noticed. It doesn’t seem to show up on any of the Android Studio simulators and I only have a couple of older physical android devices to test against, which also work as expected. I only recently noticed it on a friends newer Samsung device and then was able to test against it further using the Samsung developer portal which includes a nice “remote test lab” <https://developer.samsung.com/remotetestlab/devices/125/galaxy-s>

Any suggestions (or commiseration) would be welcome.

--
Scott Morrow

Elementary Software
(Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
web       https://elementarysoftware.com/
email     scott at elementarysoftware.com
booth    1-360-734-4701
------------------------------------------------------









From rolf.kocherhans at uzh.ch  Tue Oct  3 04:53:09 2023
From: rolf.kocherhans at uzh.ch (Rolf Kocherhans)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2023 08:53:09 +0000
Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1696089601.89108.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.1.1696089601.89108.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <B4839189-B0EC-4D3F-AB4B-2C04F0EB0563@uzh.ch>

@Matthias and the Mothership,

My Apple Developer account expired several years ago, and I'm facing a critical issue with one of my LiveCode Apps, Clarify, developed by Trevor DeVore. This app is extremely important to me.

Unfortunately, Clarify is no longer actively developed and has started crashing with Sonoma. I am wondering if there's a possibility to resolve this issue by signing the bundles. I am more than willing to invest in a new subscription with Apple if that's what it takes – I can't imagine my work without Clarify.

Could someone please test if signing the bundles might make an app functional again?
Your assistance in this matter would mean the world to me.

Cheers,
Rolf

Am 30.09.2023 um 18:00 schrieb use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com:

Maybe my observation is not the reason for the crash. Would really not make sense, when an unsigned app would crash instead of reporting an alert.

But code signing  the complete Livecode app bundle would proof it.

Did someone btw had a look at the system log file after the crash?


From heather at livecode.com  Tue Oct  3 06:24:49 2023
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2023 11:24:49 +0100
Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <B4839189-B0EC-4D3F-AB4B-2C04F0EB0563@uzh.ch>
References: <mailman.1.1696089601.89108.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <B4839189-B0EC-4D3F-AB4B-2C04F0EB0563@uzh.ch>
Message-ID: <8B04CB3A-EE65-4346-BC42-B5A10E599003@livecode.com>

Hi Rolf,

No, the problem is not related to signing. The problem centers on how Sonoma handles menus, and any app that contains a menu will crash on Sonoma unless built with LiveCode 9.6.10 or 10 dp-6.

Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 3 Oct 2023, at 09:53, Rolf Kocherhans via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> @Matthias and the Mothership,
> 
> My Apple Developer account expired several years ago, and I'm facing a critical issue with one of my LiveCode Apps, Clarify, developed by Trevor DeVore. This app is extremely important to me.
> 
> Unfortunately, Clarify is no longer actively developed and has started crashing with Sonoma. I am wondering if there's a possibility to resolve this issue by signing the bundles. I am more than willing to invest in a new subscription with Apple if that's what it takes – I can't imagine my work without Clarify.
> 
> Could someone please test if signing the bundles might make an app functional again?
> Your assistance in this matter would mean the world to me.
> 
> Cheers,
> Rolf
> 
> Am 30.09.2023 um 18:00 schrieb use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com:
> 
> Maybe my observation is not the reason for the crash. Would really not make sense, when an unsigned app would crash instead of reporting an alert.
> 
> But code signing  the complete Livecode app bundle would proof it.
> 
> Did someone btw had a look at the system log file after the crash?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Tue Oct  3 06:53:01 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2023 12:53:01 +0200
Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <8B04CB3A-EE65-4346-BC42-B5A10E599003@livecode.com>
References: <mailman.1.1696089601.89108.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <B4839189-B0EC-4D3F-AB4B-2C04F0EB0563@uzh.ch>
 <8B04CB3A-EE65-4346-BC42-B5A10E599003@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <05A7E909-CE87-47A0-B288-ADEB8F18643C@m-r-d.de>

Hi Heather,

thanks for clarifying the reason for the crashes.

At least this grants that standalones created with older LC versions will run as long as they do not contain a customized menu, right?

Regards,
Matthias


> Am 03.10.2023 um 12:24 schrieb Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi Rolf,
> 
> No, the problem is not related to signing. The problem centers on how Sonoma handles menus, and any app that contains a menu will crash on Sonoma unless built with LiveCode 9.6.10 or 10 dp-6.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On 3 Oct 2023, at 09:53, Rolf Kocherhans via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> @Matthias and the Mothership,
>> 
>> My Apple Developer account expired several years ago, and I'm facing a critical issue with one of my LiveCode Apps, Clarify, developed by Trevor DeVore. This app is extremely important to me.
>> 
>> Unfortunately, Clarify is no longer actively developed and has started crashing with Sonoma. I am wondering if there's a possibility to resolve this issue by signing the bundles. I am more than willing to invest in a new subscription with Apple if that's what it takes – I can't imagine my work without Clarify.
>> 
>> Could someone please test if signing the bundles might make an app functional again?
>> Your assistance in this matter would mean the world to me.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Rolf
>> 
>> Am 30.09.2023 um 18:00 schrieb use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com:
>> 
>> Maybe my observation is not the reason for the crash. Would really not make sense, when an unsigned app would crash instead of reporting an alert.
>> 
>> But code signing  the complete Livecode app bundle would proof it.
>> 
>> Did someone btw had a look at the system log file after the crash?
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From heather at livecode.com  Tue Oct  3 09:56:31 2023
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2023 14:56:31 +0100
Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <05A7E909-CE87-47A0-B288-ADEB8F18643C@m-r-d.de>
References: <mailman.1.1696089601.89108.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <B4839189-B0EC-4D3F-AB4B-2C04F0EB0563@uzh.ch>
 <8B04CB3A-EE65-4346-BC42-B5A10E599003@livecode.com>
 <05A7E909-CE87-47A0-B288-ADEB8F18643C@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <EF774AE9-5843-455E-87D7-1A0D50AEEA31@livecode.com>

Hi Matthias,

I think ANY menu will cause a crash. |f your app has no menus it will not be affected by the issue. Otherwise, it will crash, as does LiveCode itself  prior to the fix.

Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 3 Oct 2023, at 11:53, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Heather,
> 
> thanks for clarifying the reason for the crashes.
> 
> At least this grants that standalones created with older LC versions will run as long as they do not contain a customized menu, right?
> 
> Regards,
> Matthias
> 
> 
>> Am 03.10.2023 um 12:24 schrieb Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Hi Rolf,
>> 
>> No, the problem is not related to signing. The problem centers on how Sonoma handles menus, and any app that contains a menu will crash on Sonoma unless built with LiveCode 9.6.10 or 10 dp-6.
>> 
>> Best Regards,
>> 
>> Heather
>> 
>> Heather Laine
>> Customer Services Manager
>> LiveCode Ltd
>> www.livecode.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 3 Oct 2023, at 09:53, Rolf Kocherhans via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> @Matthias and the Mothership,
>>> 
>>> My Apple Developer account expired several years ago, and I'm facing a critical issue with one of my LiveCode Apps, Clarify, developed by Trevor DeVore. This app is extremely important to me.
>>> 
>>> Unfortunately, Clarify is no longer actively developed and has started crashing with Sonoma. I am wondering if there's a possibility to resolve this issue by signing the bundles. I am more than willing to invest in a new subscription with Apple if that's what it takes – I can't imagine my work without Clarify.
>>> 
>>> Could someone please test if signing the bundles might make an app functional again?
>>> Your assistance in this matter would mean the world to me.
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> Rolf
>>> 
>>> Am 30.09.2023 um 18:00 schrieb use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com:
>>> 
>>> Maybe my observation is not the reason for the crash. Would really not make sense, when an unsigned app would crash instead of reporting an alert.
>>> 
>>> But code signing  the complete Livecode app bundle would proof it.
>>> 
>>> Did someone btw had a look at the system log file after the crash?
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Tue Oct  3 10:19:28 2023
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2023 10:19:28 -0400
Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <B4839189-B0EC-4D3F-AB4B-2C04F0EB0563@uzh.ch>
References: <mailman.1.1696089601.89108.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <B4839189-B0EC-4D3F-AB4B-2C04F0EB0563@uzh.ch>
Message-ID: <000c01d9f604$a1bf6f40$e53e4dc0$@net>

You think you have it bad. Apple just announced the $17,000 older gold Apple Watches can no longer be fixed or have SW updates. Glad my VB6 apps, Timex and paper maps still work.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Rolf Kocherhans via use-livecode
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2023 4:53 AM
To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Cc: Rolf Kocherhans
Subject: Re: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma

@Matthias and the Mothership,

My Apple Developer account expired several years ago, and I'm facing a critical issue with one of my LiveCode Apps, Clarify, developed by Trevor DeVore. This app is extremely important to me.

Unfortunately, Clarify is no longer actively developed and has started crashing with Sonoma. I am wondering if there's a possibility to resolve this issue by signing the bundles. I am more than willing to invest in a new subscription with Apple if that's what it takes – I can't imagine my work without Clarify.

Could someone please test if signing the bundles might make an app functional again?
Your assistance in this matter would mean the world to me.

Cheers,
Rolf

Am 30.09.2023 um 18:00 schrieb use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com:

Maybe my observation is not the reason for the crash. Would really not make sense, when an unsigned app would crash instead of reporting an alert.

But code signing  the complete Livecode app bundle would proof it.

Did someone btw had a look at the system log file after the crash?

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Tue Oct  3 11:17:46 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2023 15:17:46 +0000
Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <EF774AE9-5843-455E-87D7-1A0D50AEEA31@livecode.com>
References: <mailman.1.1696089601.89108.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <B4839189-B0EC-4D3F-AB4B-2C04F0EB0563@uzh.ch>
 <8B04CB3A-EE65-4346-BC42-B5A10E599003@livecode.com>
 <05A7E909-CE87-47A0-B288-ADEB8F18643C@m-r-d.de>
 <EF774AE9-5843-455E-87D7-1A0D50AEEA31@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <A66944B3-FCDF-41B6-BCBE-E79D86574D1D@iotecdigital.com>

So for those upgrading to Sonoma, 9.6.10 and 10 dp6 are now a rubicon of sorts. There’s no going back. (I just needed to use the word Rubicon in a sentence today.) 

Bob S


> On Oct 3, 2023, at 6:56 AM, Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Matthias,
> 
> I think ANY menu will cause a crash. |f your app has no menus it will not be affected by the issue. Otherwise, it will crash, as does LiveCode itself  prior to the fix.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com


From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Tue Oct  3 12:09:12 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2023 18:09:12 +0200
Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <B4839189-B0EC-4D3F-AB4B-2C04F0EB0563@uzh.ch>
References: <mailman.1.1696089601.89108.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <B4839189-B0EC-4D3F-AB4B-2C04F0EB0563@uzh.ch>
Message-ID: <4974CBE3-DD67-4FBB-AB03-86F217139CD0@m-r-d.de>

Rolf,

now that Heather clarified that this problem has to do with menus,  only the developer of Clarify could help with a working version of Clarify for Sonoma.

Btw. Clarify (and Screensteps 2)  are two of the best tools i've ever used. I am still using Clarify regularly.
There is no real competitor for it. At least i do not know any program that has all the features and user comfort.

There is a program called Folge (https://folge.me <https://folge.me/>) and although i have a license for it and it gets better with each update, I can't get used to it..
Maybe i am just too spoiled by Clarify. ;)

Matthias

> Am 03.10.2023 um 10:53 schrieb Rolf Kocherhans via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> @Matthias and the Mothership,
> 
> My Apple Developer account expired several years ago, and I'm facing a critical issue with one of my LiveCode Apps, Clarify, developed by Trevor DeVore. This app is extremely important to me.
> 
> Unfortunately, Clarify is no longer actively developed and has started crashing with Sonoma. I am wondering if there's a possibility to resolve this issue by signing the bundles. I am more than willing to invest in a new subscription with Apple if that's what it takes – I can't imagine my work without Clarify.
> 
> Could someone please test if signing the bundles might make an app functional again?
> Your assistance in this matter would mean the world to me.
> 
> Cheers,
> Rolf
> 
> Am 30.09.2023 um 18:00 schrieb use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com:
> 
> Maybe my observation is not the reason for the crash. Would really not make sense, when an unsigned app would crash instead of reporting an alert.
> 
> But code signing  the complete Livecode app bundle would proof it.
> 
> Did someone btw had a look at the system log file after the crash?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Tue Oct  3 12:09:44 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2023 18:09:44 +0200
Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <EF774AE9-5843-455E-87D7-1A0D50AEEA31@livecode.com>
References: <mailman.1.1696089601.89108.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <B4839189-B0EC-4D3F-AB4B-2C04F0EB0563@uzh.ch>
 <8B04CB3A-EE65-4346-BC42-B5A10E599003@livecode.com>
 <05A7E909-CE87-47A0-B288-ADEB8F18643C@m-r-d.de>
 <EF774AE9-5843-455E-87D7-1A0D50AEEA31@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <D4AF850C-5177-41BF-BF61-2035877BF9C5@m-r-d.de>

Hello Heather,

i meant that simple default menu that is automatically created when Livecode creates a macOS standalone.

But tested now in Sonoma VM and my older apps without just that simple default menu run w/o problems.

> Am 03.10.2023 um 15:56 schrieb Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi Matthias,
> 
> I think ANY menu will cause a crash. |f your app has no menus it will not be affected by the issue. Otherwise, it will crash, as does LiveCode itself  prior to the fix.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On 3 Oct 2023, at 11:53, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Heather,
>> 
>> thanks for clarifying the reason for the crashes.
>> 
>> At least this grants that standalones created with older LC versions will run as long as they do not contain a customized menu, right?
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Matthias
>> 
>> 
>>> Am 03.10.2023 um 12:24 schrieb Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> Hi Rolf,
>>> 
>>> No, the problem is not related to signing. The problem centers on how Sonoma handles menus, and any app that contains a menu will crash on Sonoma unless built with LiveCode 9.6.10 or 10 dp-6.
>>> 
>>> Best Regards,
>>> 
>>> Heather
>>> 
>>> Heather Laine
>>> Customer Services Manager
>>> LiveCode Ltd
>>> www.livecode.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 3 Oct 2023, at 09:53, Rolf Kocherhans via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> @Matthias and the Mothership,
>>>> 
>>>> My Apple Developer account expired several years ago, and I'm facing a critical issue with one of my LiveCode Apps, Clarify, developed by Trevor DeVore. This app is extremely important to me.
>>>> 
>>>> Unfortunately, Clarify is no longer actively developed and has started crashing with Sonoma. I am wondering if there's a possibility to resolve this issue by signing the bundles. I am more than willing to invest in a new subscription with Apple if that's what it takes – I can't imagine my work without Clarify.
>>>> 
>>>> Could someone please test if signing the bundles might make an app functional again?
>>>> Your assistance in this matter would mean the world to me.
>>>> 
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Rolf
>>>> 
>>>> Am 30.09.2023 um 18:00 schrieb use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com:
>>>> 
>>>> Maybe my observation is not the reason for the crash. Would really not make sense, when an unsigned app would crash instead of reporting an alert.
>>>> 
>>>> But code signing  the complete Livecode app bundle would proof it.
>>>> 
>>>> Did someone btw had a look at the system log file after the crash?
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From dochawk at gmail.com  Tue Oct  3 13:32:49 2023
From: dochawk at gmail.com (doc hawk)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2023 10:32:49 -0700
Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <A66944B3-FCDF-41B6-BCBE-E79D86574D1D@iotecdigital.com>
References: <mailman.1.1696089601.89108.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <B4839189-B0EC-4D3F-AB4B-2C04F0EB0563@uzh.ch>
 <8B04CB3A-EE65-4346-BC42-B5A10E599003@livecode.com>
 <05A7E909-CE87-47A0-B288-ADEB8F18643C@m-r-d.de>
 <EF774AE9-5843-455E-87D7-1A0D50AEEA31@livecode.com>
 <A66944B3-FCDF-41B6-BCBE-E79D86574D1D@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <CANQHZSEYgwyR=1WXHxxa+zGRjcLwEDir0mPkmLuGvxeRBYYE8Q@mail.gmail.com>

bob bobbled,

So for those upgrading to Sonoma, 9.6.10 and 10 dp6 are now a rubicon of
sorts. There’s no going back. (I just needed to use the word Rubicon in a
sentence today.)


Shelly cahn’t speak with wi’out a New Ahngland oxcent, but Rubicon!

Ok, I’ll call back under my rock

From jiml at netrin.com  Tue Oct  3 17:38:00 2023
From: jiml at netrin.com (Jim Lambert)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2023 14:38:00 -0700
Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1696348802.86716.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.1.1696348802.86716.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <A1CE575D-CC51-4436-8325-9AE918781BAE@netrin.com>

> Bob wrote:
> 
> So for those upgrading to Sonoma, 9.6.10 and 10 dp6 are now a rubicon of sorts. There?s no going back. (I just needed to use the word Rubicon in a sentence today.)

Rubicon.  
Does that mean the rubes have been conned?
😉

Jim Lambert

From mark at livecode.com  Wed Oct  4 02:57:14 2023
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2023 07:57:14 +0100
Subject: Livecode 10dp6 and web fonts
In-Reply-To: <31e0834e-343a-5294-7edf-2db21a993001@researchware.com>
References: <31e0834e-343a-5294-7edf-2db21a993001@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <f8c2147871dbb41a50b0eff131025ffd@livecode.com>

On 2023-09-27 15:49, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
> I get the value of web font support in LC10dp6 for WEB based 
> applications.
> 
> However, if you making a multi-platform application, you still have the 
> issue of UI consistency across platforms as web fonts can't be used in 
> desktop standalones (or, I assume, phone standalones)

It is true that web fonts are a 'browser' thing - however, you can still 
download the underlying TTF files from the web font service and include 
them in native standalones if you want to use the same fonts across web 
and native apps (obviously, you need to check the license the fonts are 
served under - but that's true with any non-system fonts you might 
include at the moment).

In the future we could look at making font inclusion easier in 
standalones cross-platform (i.e. allow specifying fonts in the s/b at a 
higher-level and then it doing the right thing) - however, there are 
some engine improvements to font selection across the different 
platforms we need to do first (in particularly, 'fixing' the font 
enumeration properties and allowing specification of different weights 
and stretches via the textStyle properties!).

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things


From paul at researchware.com  Wed Oct  4 06:28:48 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2023 06:28:48 -0400
Subject: Livecode 10dp6 and web fonts
In-Reply-To: <f8c2147871dbb41a50b0eff131025ffd@livecode.com>
References: <31e0834e-343a-5294-7edf-2db21a993001@researchware.com>
 <f8c2147871dbb41a50b0eff131025ffd@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <cb885327-85f2-0134-8cf7-86e4487f18a8@researchware.com>

On 10/4/2023 2:57 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:
> On 2023-09-27 15:49, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
>> I get the value of web font support in LC10dp6 for WEB based 
>> applications.
>>
>> However, if you making a multi-platform application, you still have 
>> the issue of UI consistency across platforms as web fonts can't be 
>> used in desktop standalones (or, I assume, phone standalones)
>
> It is true that web fonts are a 'browser' thing - however, you can 
> still download the underlying TTF files from the web font service and 
> include them in native standalones if you want to use the same fonts 
> across web and native apps (obviously, you need to check the license 
> the fonts are served under - but that's true with any non-system fonts 
> you might include at the moment).
>
> In the future we could look at making font inclusion easier in 
> standalones cross-platform (i.e. allow specifying fonts in the s/b at 
> a higher-level and then it doing the right thing) - however, there are 
> some engine improvements to font selection across the different 
> platforms we need to do first (in particularly, 'fixing' the font 
> enumeration properties and allowing specification of different weights 
> and stretches via the textStyle properties!).
>
> Warmest Regards,
>
> Mark.
>

Thank you again Mark. I did not know that "Web" font, like most (All?) 
Google fonts could be downloaded as TTF files (I just downloaded 
Google's Roboto family - a ZIP with Roboto in various styles as ttf 
files) and use them in Desktop builds  This is good to know. I use 
Google Fonts on a number of web sites. I never thought to even look into 
their use as a downloadable font!



From paul at researchware.com  Wed Oct  4 17:12:39 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2023 17:12:39 -0400
Subject: LC 9.6.10 standalone with Pallette issues under Sonoma
Message-ID: <f86c717a-f4f0-4770-a3fc-df11431d5c8c@researchware.com>

We're just in the middle of testing, but we're seeing some issues where 
the contents of a palette window are not rendering (just an empty 
window) in a Livecode 9.6.10 standalone under macOS Sonoma.

Anyone else see anything like this?



From paul at researchware.com  Wed Oct  4 19:15:22 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2023 19:15:22 -0400
Subject: LC 9.6.10 standalone with Pallette issues under Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <f86c717a-f4f0-4770-a3fc-df11431d5c8c@researchware.com>
References: <f86c717a-f4f0-4770-a3fc-df11431d5c8c@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <ba7a887a-3596-9f5d-bf2d-7c28755800c8@researchware.com>

On 10/4/2023 5:12 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
> We're just in the middle of testing, but we're seeing some issues 
> where the contents of a palette window are not rendering (just an 
> empty window) in a Livecode 9.6.10 standalone under macOS Sonoma.
>
> Anyone else see anything like this?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

We're also seeing that fields that contain in-line images among the 
text/content of the field do not render under Sonoma using a standalone 
built on LC 9.6.10. Thursday, we'll try to make a sample test stack to 
confirm this.



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu Oct  5 17:24:29 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2023 21:24:29 +0000
Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <A1CE575D-CC51-4436-8325-9AE918781BAE@netrin.com>
References: <mailman.1.1696348802.86716.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <A1CE575D-CC51-4436-8325-9AE918781BAE@netrin.com>
Message-ID: <F406FDFF-66FC-4147-8722-CDAF5E9B882E@iotecdigital.com>

I think it refers to the belly rub emoji. (Rub Icon? Anyone?? <sigh> never mind.)

Bob S


> On Oct 3, 2023, at 2:38 PM, Jim Lambert via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Bob wrote:
>> 
>> So for those upgrading to Sonoma, 9.6.10 and 10 dp6 are now a rubicon of sorts. There?s no going back. (I just needed to use the word Rubicon in a sentence today.)
> 
> Rubicon.  
> Does that mean the rubes have been conned?
> 😉
> 
> Jim Lambert
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From paul at researchware.com  Thu Oct  5 17:44:26 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2023 17:44:26 -0400
Subject: AW: LC 9.6.10 standalone with Pallette issues under Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <f86c717a-f4f0-4770-a3fc-df11431d5c8c@researchware.com>
References: <f86c717a-f4f0-4770-a3fc-df11431d5c8c@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <1b27c9a7-945f-7573-6137-a6e0637a8524@researchware.com>

On 10/4/2023 5:12 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
> We're just in the middle of testing, but we're seeing some issues 
> where the contents of a palette window are not rendering (just an 
> empty window) in a Livecode 9.6.10 standalone under macOS Sonoma.
>
> Anyone else see anything like this?

Okay, this was all a false alarm and a code error. Some contractor code 
was designed pre-Big Sur (and whatever version of LC fixed Big Sus 
reporting as version 10.16) and only looked at if the first number of 
the version was 10 to determine what if it was OSX. Sorry for the false 
suspicion that it may have been an LC on Sonoma problem.



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Oct  6 02:18:19 2023
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (ambassador at fourthworld.com)
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2023 06:18:19 +0000
Subject: AW: LC 9.6.10 standalone with Pallette issues under Sonoma
Message-ID: <2de0ff988d1a0fd4afc00a2d1ee36ebba4b58e77@fourthworld.com>

Paul Dupuis wrote:
>> We're just in the middle of testing, but we're seeing some issues
>> where the contents of a palette window are not rendering (just an
>> empty window) in a Livecode 9.6.10 standalone under macOS Sonoma.
>>
>> Anyone else see anything like this?
>
> Okay, this was all a false alarm and a code error. Some contractor
> code was designed pre-Big Sur (and whatever version of LC fixed Big
> Sus reporting as version 10.16) and only looked at if the first
> number of the version was 10 to determine what if it was OSX.

If it was to distinguish OSX from Classic you got a lot of life out of it, as Apple didn't change the major version number for decades. :)

But I'm curious: was it just an errant condition triggering a hide, or did it trigger a deeper bug in the engine which prevents LC from rendering the content region of the window?

--  
Richard Gaskin
Fourth World Systems


From dan at clearvisiontech.com  Fri Oct  6 18:44:22 2023
From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman)
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2023 22:44:22 +0000
Subject: I give up!  Mac App Installer Hell
In-Reply-To: <2de0ff988d1a0fd4afc00a2d1ee36ebba4b58e77@fourthworld.com>
References: <2de0ff988d1a0fd4afc00a2d1ee36ebba4b58e77@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <BYAPR12MB270922CCD99CAD3C3747322BB9C9A@BYAPR12MB2709.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>

If you have a very, very, VERY good understanding of creating Mac installer files to be posted to a website for user install, and to submit to the Mac App Store, I would like to pay you to walk me through all this - step by step.  I can’t take any of more this crap!  Certificates, Identifiers, Profiles, p12 Files, Keys (public and private), Provisioning, Installer keys… GRRRR!!!  I have an app that is tested, built and ready to go.  Just need to get it signed and uploaded to Apple.   If you understand all this, I would think a 20 minute Skype call should get it done.

FYI… This is an update to an existing app that is already in the app store.  (Don’t ask me how I got it done last time?!).  I don’t know why my brain can’t grasp this…. I have read Apple’s documentation, tried the (out of date) LC Lesions, watched videos, and gone through article after article.   At this point, I am not really interested in learning how to do this… I just want to get it done.

Save me!
-Dan

From alex at tweedly.net  Fri Oct  6 19:28:09 2023
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2023 00:28:09 +0100
Subject: I give up! Mac App Installer Hell
In-Reply-To: <BYAPR12MB270922CCD99CAD3C3747322BB9C9A@BYAPR12MB2709.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
References: <2de0ff988d1a0fd4afc00a2d1ee36ebba4b58e77@fourthworld.com>
 <BYAPR12MB270922CCD99CAD3C3747322BB9C9A@BYAPR12MB2709.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <7705f4ec-0261-4844-9bbb-dcefccecf844@tweedly.net>

I'm afraid I can't help - wish I could.

But I have to say that "... tried the (out of date) LC Lesions," must be 
the best auto-correct failure this week.

Alex.

On 06/10/2023 23:44, Dan Friedman via use-livecode wrote:
> If you have a very, very, VERY good understanding of creating Mac installer files to be posted to a website for user install, and to submit to the Mac App Store, I would like to pay you to walk me through all this - step by step.  I cant take any of more this crap!  Certificates, Identifiers, Profiles, p12 Files, Keys (public and private), Provisioning, Installer keys GRRRR!!!  I have an app that is tested, built and ready to go.  Just need to get it signed and uploaded to Apple.   If you understand all this, I would think a 20 minute Skype call should get it done.
>
> FYI This is an update to an existing app that is already in the app store.  (Dont ask me how I got it done last time?!).  I dont know why my brain cant grasp this. I have read Apples documentation, tried the (out of date) LC Lesions, watched videos, and gone through article after article.   At this point, I am not really interested in learning how to do this I just want to get it done.
>
> Save me!
> -Dan
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

From irog at mac.com  Fri Oct  6 20:14:50 2023
From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay)
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2023 17:14:50 -0700
Subject: I give up!  Mac App Installer Hell
In-Reply-To: <BYAPR12MB270922CCD99CAD3C3747322BB9C9A@BYAPR12MB2709.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
References: <2de0ff988d1a0fd4afc00a2d1ee36ebba4b58e77@fourthworld.com>
 <BYAPR12MB270922CCD99CAD3C3747322BB9C9A@BYAPR12MB2709.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <23D846D9-7F47-4641-AC74-56128D09F353@mac.com>

I’m totally with you, Dan, but even though I’ve done it before as well. I have no idea what I did. I’ve given up trying to develop apps for iOS and stopped my Apple Developer subscription out of this frustration.

Good luck! Somebody save us all!! Why can’t LC do this for us? Maybe ChatGPT??

Roger

> On Oct 6, 2023, at 3:44 PM, Dan Friedman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> If you have a very, very, VERY good understanding of creating Mac installer files to be posted to a website for user install, and to submit to the Mac App Store, I would like to pay you to walk me through all this - step by step.  I can’t take any of more this crap!  Certificates, Identifiers, Profiles, p12 Files, Keys (public and private), Provisioning, Installer keys… GRRRR!!!  I have an app that is tested, built and ready to go.  Just need to get it signed and uploaded to Apple.   If you understand all this, I would think a 20 minute Skype call should get it done.
> 
> FYI… This is an update to an existing app that is already in the app store.  (Don’t ask me how I got it done last time?!).  I don’t know why my brain can’t grasp this…. I have read Apple’s documentation, tried the (out of date) LC Lesions, watched videos, and gone through article after article.   At this point, I am not really interested in learning how to do this… I just want to get it done.
> 
> Save me!
> -Dan
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Mon Oct  9 11:37:55 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2023 16:37:55 +0100
Subject: I give up!  Mac App Installer Hell
In-Reply-To: <BYAPR12MB270922CCD99CAD3C3747322BB9C9A@BYAPR12MB2709.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
References: <2de0ff988d1a0fd4afc00a2d1ee36ebba4b58e77@fourthworld.com>
 <BYAPR12MB270922CCD99CAD3C3747322BB9C9A@BYAPR12MB2709.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <AC9FA3CC-08CB-4066-9623-54A418E6D650@gmail.com>

Hi Dan,

Which store are you intending to submit to: Mac App or iOS App? I’ve done it to iOS a half dozen times (although the last time was probably more than a year ago) I could probably scrounge something useful together. I’ve only created installer packages for the Mac App Store (using Kee Nethery’s excellent livecode lesson “Signing and Uploading Apps to the Mac App Store” but which are, as you point out, out of date (Matthias was very helpful in helping me sort which parts to ignore and which parts to pay attention to) but I’ve only gotten to the point of creating an installer package (which I’m using to install and test the app on several different Macs) so I’ve not yet submitted to the App Store. That is the next step on my list, although this week is a write-off in terms of time, and in fact this month might be a write-off. However, if you are having difficulty creating the installer package I would be happy to send you my crib notes which are pretty brief and easy to follow. 

Mark

> On 6 Oct 2023, at 11:44 pm, Dan Friedman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> If you have a very, very, VERY good understanding of creating Mac installer files to be posted to a website for user install, and to submit to the Mac App Store, I would like to pay you to walk me through all this - step by step.  I can’t take any of more this crap!  Certificates, Identifiers, Profiles, p12 Files, Keys (public and private), Provisioning, Installer keys… GRRRR!!!  I have an app that is tested, built and ready to go.  Just need to get it signed and uploaded to Apple.   If you understand all this, I would think a 20 minute Skype call should get it done.
> 
> FYI… This is an update to an existing app that is already in the app store.  (Don’t ask me how I got it done last time?!).  I don’t know why my brain can’t grasp this…. I have read Apple’s documentation, tried the (out of date) LC Lesions, watched videos, and gone through article after article.   At this point, I am not really interested in learning how to do this… I just want to get it done.
> 
> Save me!
> -Dan
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Mon Oct  9 15:49:56 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2023 15:49:56 -0400
Subject: I give up! Mac App Installer Hell
In-Reply-To: <AC9FA3CC-08CB-4066-9623-54A418E6D650@gmail.com>
References: <2de0ff988d1a0fd4afc00a2d1ee36ebba4b58e77@fourthworld.com>
 <BYAPR12MB270922CCD99CAD3C3747322BB9C9A@BYAPR12MB2709.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
 <AC9FA3CC-08CB-4066-9623-54A418E6D650@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycPNZNvDdiAJa+nUMP3MzbSZcZmA6pc9sr0qyBHGQ2KROw@mail.gmail.com>

ios is much more straightforward than it was, even a couple of years ago. i
would call it "nearly painless", now.
mac...sorry, no do.

On Mon, Oct 9, 2023 at 11:39 AM Mark Smith via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Dan,
>
> Which store are you intending to submit to: Mac App or iOS App? I’ve done
> it to iOS a half dozen times (although the last time was probably more than
> a year ago) I could probably scrounge something useful together. I’ve only
> created installer packages for the Mac App Store (using Kee Nethery’s
> excellent livecode lesson “Signing and Uploading Apps to the Mac App Store”
> but which are, as you point out, out of date (Matthias was very helpful in
> helping me sort which parts to ignore and which parts to pay attention to)
> but I’ve only gotten to the point of creating an installer package (which
> I’m using to install and test the app on several different Macs) so I’ve
> not yet submitted to the App Store. That is the next step on my list,
> although this week is a write-off in terms of time, and in fact this month
> might be a write-off. However, if you are having difficulty creating the
> installer package I would be happy to send you my crib notes which are
> pretty brief and easy to follow.
>
> Mark
>
> > On 6 Oct 2023, at 11:44 pm, Dan Friedman via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > If you have a very, very, VERY good understanding of creating Mac
> installer files to be posted to a website for user install, and to submit
> to the Mac App Store, I would like to pay you to walk me through all this -
> step by step.  I can’t take any of more this crap!  Certificates,
> Identifiers, Profiles, p12 Files, Keys (public and private), Provisioning,
> Installer keys… GRRRR!!!  I have an app that is tested, built and ready to
> go.  Just need to get it signed and uploaded to Apple.   If you understand
> all this, I would think a 20 minute Skype call should get it done.
> >
> > FYI… This is an update to an existing app that is already in the app
> store.  (Don’t ask me how I got it done last time?!).  I don’t know why my
> brain can’t grasp this…. I have read Apple’s documentation, tried the (out
> of date) LC Lesions, watched videos, and gone through article after
> article.   At this point, I am not really interested in learning how to do
> this… I just want to get it done.
> >
> > Save me!
> > -Dan
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Oct  9 17:46:33 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2023 16:46:33 -0500
Subject: Can't codesign Mac app
Message-ID: <7d213e86-a1bd-be2a-e809-27c563860bc8@hyperactivesw.com>

I'm using Matthias' mrSignNotarizeHelper V3.1 with xCode 13.2.1 on Mac OS 12.6.9 (Monterey) but 
get a script error. The same thing happens in both LC 9.6.9 and 9.6.10 dp 6.

So then I tried notarizationHelper V4 but keep getting "no identity found" errors. I've tried 
all the suggestions in the lesson. This is pretty critical for me right now, does anyone know 
what's wrong? It was last signed successfully in May of this year.

I need to codesign today...

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Oct  9 18:13:09 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2023 17:13:09 -0500
Subject: Can't codesign Mac app
In-Reply-To: <7d213e86-a1bd-be2a-e809-27c563860bc8@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <7d213e86-a1bd-be2a-e809-27c563860bc8@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <efabbbb6-d81d-84a3-6e46-e3201dc2520b@hyperactivesw.com>

On 10/9/23 4:46 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
> I'm using Matthias' mrSignNotarizeHelper V3.1 with xCode 13.2.1 on Mac OS 12.6.9 (Monterey) but 
> get a script error. The same thing happens in both LC 9.6.9 and 9.6.10 dp 6.
> 
> So then I tried notarizationHelper V4 but keep getting "no identity found" errors. I've tried 
> all the suggestions in the lesson. This is pretty critical for me right now, does anyone know 
> what's wrong? It was last signed successfully in May of this year.
> 
> I need to codesign today...
> 

Addendum: there were breakpoints in the script, which I thought at first were errors, in 
version 3.1. I removed them, and while it did not break into the debugger any more I am still 
getting "no identity found."

I have tried with and without a space after "Developer ID Application:". All the other fields 
in settings are as they were before when it worked. All certificates and the app password are 
correct, valid, and available in KeyChain Access.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From paul at researchware.com  Mon Oct  9 18:18:01 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2023 18:18:01 -0400
Subject: Can't codesign Mac app
In-Reply-To: <7d213e86-a1bd-be2a-e809-27c563860bc8@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <7d213e86-a1bd-be2a-e809-27c563860bc8@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <59f5ab50-ed55-0e6e-f05a-4503f70a984b@researchware.com>

On 10/9/2023 5:46 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
> I'm using Matthias' mrSignNotarizeHelper V3.1 with xCode 13.2.1 on Mac 
> OS 12.6.9 (Monterey) but get a script error. The same thing happens in 
> both LC 9.6.9 and 9.6.10 dp 6.
>
> So then I tried notarizationHelper V4 but keep getting "no identity 
> found" errors. I've tried all the suggestions in the lesson. This is 
> pretty critical for me right now, does anyone know what's wrong? It 
> was last signed successfully in May of this year.
>
> I need to codesign today...
>

I struggle with Apple's developer requirements, and I am not sure of my 
memory, but I think I recall that error suggest with the keychain is 
missing the cert or something else where the tool can't find the signing 
certificate.



From bleiler at buffalo.edu  Mon Oct  9 18:23:01 2023
From: bleiler at buffalo.edu (Timothy Bleiler)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2023 22:23:01 +0000
Subject: Can't codesign Mac app
In-Reply-To: <7d213e86-a1bd-be2a-e809-27c563860bc8@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <7d213e86-a1bd-be2a-e809-27c563860bc8@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <761047C9-9A2A-4005-9D6E-8F7039550BC1@buffalo.edu>

Jacqueline,

I had a similar problem recently.  There were a couple of problems I had to fix.  My error occurred during the notarization step after code signing.

One problem was that somehow my Mac was NOT a trusted device for the Apple ID I was using for development.
Verify that your Apple ID is trusted at appleid.apple.com<http://appleid.apple.com/> for your account under devices.  You must click on the specific device “button" to find out.  Just seeing it listed is not enough.

Despite the device not being trusted for the account, the Apple developer website let me think I’d created an app-specific password. I hadn’t succeed, but my lack of experience prevented me from realizing that the second step of the process is getting the actual password back from Apple and copying it down.  I didn’t get anything, no error message, so in my ignorance I thought the seed string I’d typed in WAS the password. So, I did NOT have an actual app-specific password to use in the NotaryTool commands or in the settings mrSignNotarizeHelper V4. This caused all commands dependent on an app-specific password to fail.

What solved it for me was to go to System Settings, sign out of the Apple account on the mac and sign back in again.
Then sign back in to appleid.apple.com<http://appleid.apple.com/>, verify that my Mac was a trusted device on my developer account and then create a NEW app-specific password at the Apple developer website.
This time I saw the second part when they send the actual password. You need to copy this down because there’s no way to recover it again later.

Once I had the new app-specific password and my Mac was a trusted device in my developer account, the notaryTool commands and mrSignNotarizeHelper worked without errors.


Tim Bleiler, Ph.D.
Instructional Designer, HSIT
University at Buffalo



On Oct 9, 2023, at 5:46 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

I'm using Matthias' mrSignNotarizeHelper V3.1 with xCode 13.2.1 on Mac OS 12.6.9 (Monterey) but get a script error. The same thing happens in both LC 9.6.9 and 9.6.10 dp 6.

So then I tried notarizationHelper V4 but keep getting "no identity found" errors. I've tried all the suggestions in the lesson. This is pretty critical for me right now, does anyone know what's wrong? It was last signed successfully in May of this year.

I need to codesign today...

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hyperactivesw.com%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cbleiler%40buffalo.edu%7C53ef9ca6c3554f11c41d08dbc9114fc7%7C96464a8af8ed40b199e25f6b50a20250%7C0%7C0%7C638324848455267470%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=SSTeiAkNbmWvOHZJ3Xqd8i%2BIzsKu4Imav9%2FJ%2BReqRac%3D&reserved=0

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.runrev.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fuse-livecode&data=05%7C01%7Cbleiler%40buffalo.edu%7C53ef9ca6c3554f11c41d08dbc9114fc7%7C96464a8af8ed40b199e25f6b50a20250%7C0%7C0%7C638324848455267470%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=0hFpHvx2CewFhE3zfgsyFM%2BFh4d7T%2FJz%2Fh3Jnj8gpns%3D&reserved=0


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Oct  9 20:27:30 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2023 19:27:30 -0500
Subject: Can't codesign Mac app
In-Reply-To: <efabbbb6-d81d-84a3-6e46-e3201dc2520b@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <7d213e86-a1bd-be2a-e809-27c563860bc8@hyperactivesw.com>
 <efabbbb6-d81d-84a3-6e46-e3201dc2520b@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <ecd8dc74-b08b-85cb-7183-d1a0d69dd41b@hyperactivesw.com>

On 10/9/23 5:13 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
> On 10/9/23 4:46 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
>> I'm using Matthias' mrSignNotarizeHelper V3.1 with xCode 13.2.1 on Mac OS 12.6.9 (Monterey) 
>> but get a script error. The same thing happens in both LC 9.6.9 and 9.6.10 dp 6.
>>
>> So then I tried notarizationHelper V4 but keep getting "no identity found" errors. I've tried 
>> all the suggestions in the lesson. This is pretty critical for me right now, does anyone know 
>> what's wrong? It was last signed successfully in May of this year.
>>
>> I need to codesign today...
>>
> 
> Addendum: there were breakpoints in the script, which I thought at first were errors, in 
> version 3.1. I removed them, and while it did not break into the debugger any more I am still 
> getting "no identity found."
> 
> I have tried with and without a space after "Developer ID Application:". All the other fields 
> in settings are as they were before when it worked. All certificates and the app password are 
> correct, valid, and available in KeyChain Access.
> 

Thanks to both Timothy and Paul for suggestions. My client was able to sign/notarize on her 
machine using Matthias' tool. She's on Sonoma. We see the notarization and stapling logs and 
the result was successful. But the app will not open on the three Macs we tested it on (though 
it does open on my Montery machine; it fails on Ventura and Sonoma.) I built with both LC 
9.6.10 and LC 10 dp 6 and while both appeared to be notarized (on her machine) a terminal 
command says it isn't:

    spctl -a -t exec -vvv /Path/To/Notarised.app:: rejected

We are at a loss. @Mattias: do we need an updated mrSignNotarizeHelper? Or is something else wrong?

Our next step is to try running the correct terminal commands manually. Does anyone know where 
I can find those? I think I read that the lesson needs revision?



-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Oct  9 20:56:24 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2023 19:56:24 -0500
Subject: Can't codesign Mac app
In-Reply-To: <66D2DA12-EA38-4E3C-BC5C-222C13BFE087@mac.com>
References: <7d213e86-a1bd-be2a-e809-27c563860bc8@hyperactivesw.com>
 <efabbbb6-d81d-84a3-6e46-e3201dc2520b@hyperactivesw.com>
 <ecd8dc74-b08b-85cb-7183-d1a0d69dd41b@hyperactivesw.com>
 <66D2DA12-EA38-4E3C-BC5C-222C13BFE087@mac.com>
Message-ID: <1fc4a6c7-0c60-cc70-a14b-8bd9a4ff48ff@hyperactivesw.com>

On 10/9/23 7:33 PM, Mark Clark wrote:
> Is Gatekeeper an issue? Using dynamic libs? If your end user/tester could open console and send 
> you the errors it might help point you in the right direction.
> 
> 
> 
> Successfully notarized app rejecte… | Apple Developer Forums 
> <https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/128038>
> developer.apple.com <https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/128038>
> 	favicon.ico <https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/128038>
> 
> <https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/128038>

I think that may be the problem, we're fairly convinced right now that Gatekeeper is the issue. 
There is a single dylib in the app: revsecurity.dylib. I'm not sure what to do about it though.

I'll try to see what console says. But do we need revsecurity? Can I omit it somehow and see 
how that goes?

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From bleiler at buffalo.edu  Mon Oct  9 21:10:08 2023
From: bleiler at buffalo.edu (Timothy Bleiler)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 01:10:08 +0000
Subject: Can't codesign Mac app
In-Reply-To: <ecd8dc74-b08b-85cb-7183-d1a0d69dd41b@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <7d213e86-a1bd-be2a-e809-27c563860bc8@hyperactivesw.com>
 <efabbbb6-d81d-84a3-6e46-e3201dc2520b@hyperactivesw.com>
 <ecd8dc74-b08b-85cb-7183-d1a0d69dd41b@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <849EDABE-ADF0-4A24-81F9-B87E1C1CE139@buffalo.edu>

I think this is the most recent lesson listing the terminal commands for using NotaryTool instead of altool.
These worked when I was using the last version of Ventura and Xcode 14.3.1.  I haven’t tried Sonoma.

<https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1653720-code-signing-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore-with-xcode-13-and-up>
Code signing and notarizing your LC standalone for distribution outside the Mac Appstore with Xcode 13 and up | How To - Step-By-Step Guides To Tasks In LiveCode | LiveCode Lessons<https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1653720-code-signing-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore-with-xcode-13-and-up>
lessons.livecode.com<https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1653720-code-signing-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore-with-xcode-13-and-up>
[X]<https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1653720-code-signing-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore-with-xcode-13-and-up>


On Oct 9, 2023, at 8:27 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

On 10/9/23 5:13 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
On 10/9/23 4:46 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
I'm using Matthias' mrSignNotarizeHelper V3.1 with xCode 13.2.1 on Mac OS 12.6.9 (Monterey) but get a script error. The same thing happens in both LC 9.6.9 and 9.6.10 dp 6.

So then I tried notarizationHelper V4 but keep getting "no identity found" errors. I've tried all the suggestions in the lesson. This is pretty critical for me right now, does anyone know what's wrong? It was last signed successfully in May of this year.

I need to codesign today...

Addendum: there were breakpoints in the script, which I thought at first were errors, in version 3.1. I removed them, and while it did not break into the debugger any more I am still getting "no identity found."
I have tried with and without a space after "Developer ID Application:". All the other fields in settings are as they were before when it worked. All certificates and the app password are correct, valid, and available in KeyChain Access.

Thanks to both Timothy and Paul for suggestions. My client was able to sign/notarize on her machine using Matthias' tool. She's on Sonoma. We see the notarization and stapling logs and the result was successful. But the app will not open on the three Macs we tested it on (though it does open on my Montery machine; it fails on Ventura and Sonoma.) I built with both LC 9.6.10 and LC 10 dp 6 and while both appeared to be notarized (on her machine) a terminal command says it isn't:

  spctl -a -t exec -vvv /Path/To/Notarised.app:: rejected

We are at a loss. @Mattias: do we need an updated mrSignNotarizeHelper? Or is something else wrong?

Our next step is to try running the correct terminal commands manually. Does anyone know where I can find those? I think I read that the lesson needs revision?



--
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hyperactivesw.com%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cbleiler%40buffalo.edu%7C0155f2f48eef41eaec7008dbc927cbad%7C96464a8af8ed40b199e25f6b50a20250%7C0%7C0%7C638324945008580783%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=xI5%2F18BYMNicJ8%2FTR%2B8Ul%2FP2QYWQAKm%2Bh%2FnsJlwp9uY%3D&reserved=0


_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.runrev.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fuse-livecode&data=05%7C01%7Cbleiler%40buffalo.edu%7C0155f2f48eef41eaec7008dbc927cbad%7C96464a8af8ed40b199e25f6b50a20250%7C0%7C0%7C638324945008580783%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=5ywkZ%2BNNHrYzolj7D6IvfP0ievhugaZCohAe634geJU%3D&reserved=0


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Oct  9 21:28:07 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2023 20:28:07 -0500
Subject: Can't codesign Mac app
In-Reply-To: <849EDABE-ADF0-4A24-81F9-B87E1C1CE139@buffalo.edu>
References: <7d213e86-a1bd-be2a-e809-27c563860bc8@hyperactivesw.com>
 <efabbbb6-d81d-84a3-6e46-e3201dc2520b@hyperactivesw.com>
 <ecd8dc74-b08b-85cb-7183-d1a0d69dd41b@hyperactivesw.com>
 <849EDABE-ADF0-4A24-81F9-B87E1C1CE139@buffalo.edu>
Message-ID: <4aa5f3d5-4119-86b7-318f-0e8fb8b0d6cd@hyperactivesw.com>

Thank you, I'll try that. Meanwhile, I ran this on a supposedly notarized/signed app:

   spctl --assess --raw --verbose <appPath>

which was rejected. Does his mean anything to anyone:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<!DOCTYPE plist PUBLIC "-//Apple//DTD PLIST 1.0//EN" 
"http://www.apple.com/DTDs/PropertyList-1.0.dtd">
<plist version="1.0">
<dict>
	<key>assessment:authority</key>
	<dict>
		<key>assessment:authority:flags</key>
		<integer>0</integer>
	</dict>
	<key>assessment:remote</key>
	<true/>
	<key>assessment:verdict</key>
	<false/>
</dict>
</plist>


On 10/9/23 8:10 PM, Timothy Bleiler via use-livecode wrote:
> I think this is the most recent lesson listing the terminal commands for using NotaryTool instead of altool.
> These worked when I was using the last version of Ventura and Xcode 14.3.1.  I haven’t tried Sonoma.
> 
> <https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1653720-code-signing-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore-with-xcode-13-and-up>
> Code signing and notarizing your LC standalone for distribution outside the Mac Appstore with Xcode 13 and up | How To - Step-By-Step Guides To Tasks In LiveCode | LiveCode Lessons<https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1653720-code-signing-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore-with-xcode-13-and-up>
> lessons.livecode.com<https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1653720-code-signing-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore-with-xcode-13-and-up>
> [X]<https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1653720-code-signing-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore-with-xcode-13-and-up>

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From merakosp at gmail.com  Tue Oct 10 02:07:27 2023
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 09:07:27 +0300
Subject: Can't codesign Mac app
In-Reply-To: <4aa5f3d5-4119-86b7-318f-0e8fb8b0d6cd@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <7d213e86-a1bd-be2a-e809-27c563860bc8@hyperactivesw.com>
 <efabbbb6-d81d-84a3-6e46-e3201dc2520b@hyperactivesw.com>
 <ecd8dc74-b08b-85cb-7183-d1a0d69dd41b@hyperactivesw.com>
 <849EDABE-ADF0-4A24-81F9-B87E1C1CE139@buffalo.edu>
 <4aa5f3d5-4119-86b7-318f-0e8fb8b0d6cd@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq9PV3qWeT41kfY9PEv_ewniO5zT=xL+xu4saEfqmerQnQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Jacque,

Have you included any entitlements when codesigning the app?

I suggest including all of these:

https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1293515-entitlements-for-signed-and-notarized-apps

There is an option to do that in the settings (iirc) in Matthias'
notarization tool.

Kind regards,
Panos

On Tue, 10 Oct 2023, 04:29 J. Landman Gay via use-livecode, <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Thank you, I'll try that. Meanwhile, I ran this on a supposedly
> notarized/signed app:
>
>    spctl --assess --raw --verbose <appPath>
>
> which was rejected. Does his mean anything to anyone:
>
> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
> <!DOCTYPE plist PUBLIC "-//Apple//DTD PLIST 1.0//EN"
> "http://www.apple.com/DTDs/PropertyList-1.0.dtd">
> <plist version="1.0">
> <dict>
>         <key>assessment:authority</key>
>         <dict>
>                 <key>assessment:authority:flags</key>
>                 <integer>0</integer>
>         </dict>
>         <key>assessment:remote</key>
>         <true/>
>         <key>assessment:verdict</key>
>         <false/>
> </dict>
> </plist>
>
>
> On 10/9/23 8:10 PM, Timothy Bleiler via use-livecode wrote:
> > I think this is the most recent lesson listing the terminal commands for
> using NotaryTool instead of altool.
> > These worked when I was using the last version of Ventura and Xcode
> 14.3.1.  I haven’t tried Sonoma.
> >
> > <
> https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1653720-code-signing-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore-with-xcode-13-and-up
> >
> > Code signing and notarizing your LC standalone for distribution outside
> the Mac Appstore with Xcode 13 and up | How To - Step-By-Step Guides To
> Tasks In LiveCode | LiveCode Lessons<
> https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1653720-code-signing-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore-with-xcode-13-and-up
> >
> > lessons.livecode.com<
> https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1653720-code-signing-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore-with-xcode-13-and-up
> >
> > [X]<
> https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1653720-code-signing-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore-with-xcode-13-and-up
> >
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Tue Oct 10 03:19:49 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 09:19:49 +0200
Subject: Can't codesign Mac app
In-Reply-To: <4aa5f3d5-4119-86b7-318f-0e8fb8b0d6cd@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <7d213e86-a1bd-be2a-e809-27c563860bc8@hyperactivesw.com>
 <efabbbb6-d81d-84a3-6e46-e3201dc2520b@hyperactivesw.com>
 <ecd8dc74-b08b-85cb-7183-d1a0d69dd41b@hyperactivesw.com>
 <849EDABE-ADF0-4A24-81F9-B87E1C1CE139@buffalo.edu>
 <4aa5f3d5-4119-86b7-318f-0e8fb8b0d6cd@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <FA243C78-0627-487F-8A99-2C43CAED530B@m-r-d.de>

Hello Jacque,

didn't you get the reason back why the app is rejected when you run 'spctl --assess --raw --verbose <appPath>' ?

I've tested here now with a simple LC app which opens an https url. The https call makes sure, that revsecurity is included in the app bundle.
I've code signed and notarized that standalone with my Helper stack V4 on Ventura and tested it then on macOS Sonoma.
The app can be executed on Sonoma and    spctl --assess --raw --verbose <appPath>
returns the following on Sonoma.

/Users/matthias/Downloads/jacque/Untitled 1/Untitled 1.app: accepted
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<!DOCTYPE plist PUBLIC "-//Apple//DTD PLIST 1.0//EN" "http://www.apple.com/DTDs/PropertyList-1.0.dtd">
<plist version="1.0">
<dict>
	<key>assessment:authority</key>
	<dict>
		<key>assessment:authority:flags</key>
		<integer>2</integer>
		<key>assessment:authority:row</key>
		<integer>6</integer>
		<key>assessment:authority:source</key>
		<string>Developer ID</string>
	</dict>
	<key>assessment:remote</key>
	<true/>
	<key>assessment:verdict</key>
	<true/>
</dict>

I am not sure why your app i rejected. If you want to, i could test your app with spctl.... here on Sonoma.

Did you by any chance add additonal data to the standalone after it was built?

Or are you using any additional code which might be not in the right place in the bundle?
There is an archive topic about this here
https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/114943

I am really sorry that i am of no real help.

Regards

Matthias




> Am 10.10.2023 um 03:28 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Thank you, I'll try that. Meanwhile, I ran this on a supposedly notarized/signed app:
> 
>  spctl --assess --raw --verbose <appPath>
> 
> which was rejected. Does his mean anything to anyone:
> 
> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
> <!DOCTYPE plist PUBLIC "-//Apple//DTD PLIST 1.0//EN" "http://www.apple.com/DTDs/PropertyList-1.0.dtd">
> <plist version="1.0">
> <dict>
> 	<key>assessment:authority</key>
> 	<dict>
> 		<key>assessment:authority:flags</key>
> 		<integer>0</integer>
> 	</dict>
> 	<key>assessment:remote</key>
> 	<true/>
> 	<key>assessment:verdict</key>
> 	<false/>
> </dict>
> </plist>
> 
> 
> On 10/9/23 8:10 PM, Timothy Bleiler via use-livecode wrote:
>> I think this is the most recent lesson listing the terminal commands for using NotaryTool instead of altool.
>> These worked when I was using the last version of Ventura and Xcode 14.3.1.  I haven’t tried Sonoma.
>> <https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1653720-code-signing-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore-with-xcode-13-and-up>
>> Code signing and notarizing your LC standalone for distribution outside the Mac Appstore with Xcode 13 and up | How To - Step-By-Step Guides To Tasks In LiveCode | LiveCode Lessons<https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1653720-code-signing-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore-with-xcode-13-and-up>
>> lessons.livecode.com<https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1653720-code-signing-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore-with-xcode-13-and-up>
>> [X]<https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1653720-code-signing-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore-with-xcode-13-and-up>
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From paul at researchware.com  Tue Oct 10 06:39:28 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 06:39:28 -0400
Subject: Window code signing certificate source recommendations
Message-ID: <bfd548c9-22c9-bae3-d178-5bc3cfc49553@researchware.com>

To any with a recommendation:

I have been getting my Windows Code Signing Certificates from Comodo. I 
have been able to get certs in file formats like .pfx or .p12 that 
allows me to code sign using a single command line with the password as 
part of the command. This lets me script code signing as part of the "on 
standaloneSaved" message using the "shell()" function, so the code 
signing is part of saving the Standalone.

My current Windows cert expires in November, so I click the renew link 
and renewed. The new Cert came on a "USB token" - a small USB memory 
stick that is specially encoded. To sign, I HAVE to use  a desktop GUI 
app called SafeNet Authentication Client Tools. After a bunch of back 
and forth with Sertgo - Comodo's fullfillment branch - I got the 
following message:

-----------------

We apologize for the delayed response and any inconvenience it may have 
caused. We understand that you need a Code Signing certificate in PFX 
format to automate the signing process. As per the CA/B forum's new 
regulation, the private key should be generated, stored, and used on a 
suitable FIPS-compliant hardware token. This change from the CA/B Forum 
aims to improve security and help reduce the risk of compromise.

The Code Signing token is a hardware device with a certificate/key 
inbuilt and they cannot create/export PFX files. Since the private key 
is stored on the hardware token, for security it cannot be copied or 
exported. The concept of the token-based code signing certificate is to 
plug the USB into the system where you want to sign the software. We 
appreciate your understanding in this matter.

-----------------

So, apparently Comodo/Sertgo does NOT issue ANY cert that can be used in 
a sign command line PER the CA/B Forums (whatever they are).


Does anyone know if this is an industry wide change? Or can anyone 
recommend a Window Code Signing Certificate provider that can provide a 
cert in a format that support a command line signing, such as:

"C:\Program Files (x86)\Windows Kits\10\App Certification 
Kit\signtool.exe" sign /fd certHash /debug /f 
"C:\Users\Paul\Desktop\Code Signing\RWCodeSigningCert4.pfx" /t 
http://timestamp.comodoca.com/authenticode /v /p <PASSWORD> 
"<PATH_TO_STANDALONE>"


I really do not want to return to have to manually signing standalones!



From brian at milby7.com  Tue Oct 10 08:38:42 2023
From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 08:38:42 -0400
Subject: Window code signing certificate source recommendations
In-Reply-To: <bfd548c9-22c9-bae3-d178-5bc3cfc49553@researchware.com>
References: <bfd548c9-22c9-bae3-d178-5bc3cfc49553@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <43513E10-F2D5-4C81-8EAA-BA41F78B0FC7@milby7.com>

While not directly applicable, you may be able script it similar to using a CAC.

DOD uses Smart Cards for authentication and you can have command line tools use the card for authentication (runas /smartcard program).  What happens is that you get a pop up from the system to choose cert and enter PIN.  A similar process may be possible.

Brian Milby
brian at milby7.com

> On Oct 10, 2023, at 6:40 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> To any with a recommendation:
> 
> I have been getting my Windows Code Signing Certificates from Comodo. I have been able to get certs in file formats like .pfx or .p12 that allows me to code sign using a single command line with the password as part of the command. This lets me script code signing as part of the "on standaloneSaved" message using the "shell()" function, so the code signing is part of saving the Standalone.
> 
> My current Windows cert expires in November, so I click the renew link and renewed. The new Cert came on a "USB token" - a small USB memory stick that is specially encoded. To sign, I HAVE to use  a desktop GUI app called SafeNet Authentication Client Tools. After a bunch of back and forth with Sertgo - Comodo's fullfillment branch - I got the following message:
> 
> -----------------
> 
> We apologize for the delayed response and any inconvenience it may have caused. We understand that you need a Code Signing certificate in PFX format to automate the signing process. As per the CA/B forum's new regulation, the private key should be generated, stored, and used on a suitable FIPS-compliant hardware token. This change from the CA/B Forum aims to improve security and help reduce the risk of compromise.
> 
> The Code Signing token is a hardware device with a certificate/key inbuilt and they cannot create/export PFX files. Since the private key is stored on the hardware token, for security it cannot be copied or exported. The concept of the token-based code signing certificate is to plug the USB into the system where you want to sign the software. We appreciate your understanding in this matter.
> 
> -----------------
> 
> So, apparently Comodo/Sertgo does NOT issue ANY cert that can be used in a sign command line PER the CA/B Forums (whatever they are).
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if this is an industry wide change? Or can anyone recommend a Window Code Signing Certificate provider that can provide a cert in a format that support a command line signing, such as:
> 
> "C:\Program Files (x86)\Windows Kits\10\App Certification Kit\signtool.exe" sign /fd certHash /debug /f "C:\Users\Paul\Desktop\Code Signing\RWCodeSigningCert4.pfx" /t http://timestamp.comodoca.com/authenticode /v /p <PASSWORD> "<PATH_TO_STANDALONE>"
> 
> 
> I really do not want to return to have to manually signing standalones!
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Tue Oct 10 08:53:37 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 14:53:37 +0200
Subject: Window code signing certificate source recommendations
In-Reply-To: <bfd548c9-22c9-bae3-d178-5bc3cfc49553@researchware.com>
References: <bfd548c9-22c9-bae3-d178-5bc3cfc49553@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <ECCDEE61-0CDF-4411-B0B5-65E862D2E49F@m-r-d.de>

Hello Paul,

unfortunately this is the "new" standard. Since 1st June 2023 private keys has to be stored on a Token.
https://www.sslpoint.com/new-private-key-storage-requirement-for-standard-code-signing-certificates/

There is no way anymore to export a certificate for example to .pfx.
And much more of a pain, it is not possible anymore to code sign Windows app under macOS or at least i was not able to so so far.

I have a "cloud" certificate from Certum which i purchased from SSL Point (https://www.sslpoint.com <https://www.sslpoint.com/>)

With this type of certificate the private key is not stored on a USB token. This "cloud" certifcate  works similar to a usb token. I also have to install some software. This software allow me to login to the "cloud" and after successful login i can use that certificate
with Microsoft's signtool and JARsigner.
https://www.files.certum.eu/documents/manual_en/Code-Signing-signing-the-code-using-tools-like-Singtool-and-Jarsigner_v2.3.pdf

So to automate your signing, you just have to keep a Windows PC running and make sure that you are logged in to the "Cloud". As long as the software is logged in you have access to the certificate.
I don't know if this is also the case with the USB Token. Could not test it, because i do not have a usb token. ;)


Regards,
Matthias




> Am 10.10.2023 um 12:39 schrieb Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> To any with a recommendation:
> 
> I have been getting my Windows Code Signing Certificates from Comodo. I have been able to get certs in file formats like .pfx or .p12 that allows me to code sign using a single command line with the password as part of the command. This lets me script code signing as part of the "on standaloneSaved" message using the "shell()" function, so the code signing is part of saving the Standalone.
> 
> My current Windows cert expires in November, so I click the renew link and renewed. The new Cert came on a "USB token" - a small USB memory stick that is specially encoded. To sign, I HAVE to use  a desktop GUI app called SafeNet Authentication Client Tools. After a bunch of back and forth with Sertgo - Comodo's fullfillment branch - I got the following message:
> 
> -----------------
> 
> We apologize for the delayed response and any inconvenience it may have caused. We understand that you need a Code Signing certificate in PFX format to automate the signing process. As per the CA/B forum's new regulation, the private key should be generated, stored, and used on a suitable FIPS-compliant hardware token. This change from the CA/B Forum aims to improve security and help reduce the risk of compromise.
> 
> The Code Signing token is a hardware device with a certificate/key inbuilt and they cannot create/export PFX files. Since the private key is stored on the hardware token, for security it cannot be copied or exported. The concept of the token-based code signing certificate is to plug the USB into the system where you want to sign the software. We appreciate your understanding in this matter.
> 
> -----------------
> 
> So, apparently Comodo/Sertgo does NOT issue ANY cert that can be used in a sign command line PER the CA/B Forums (whatever they are).
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if this is an industry wide change? Or can anyone recommend a Window Code Signing Certificate provider that can provide a cert in a format that support a command line signing, such as:
> 
> "C:\Program Files (x86)\Windows Kits\10\App Certification Kit\signtool.exe" sign /fd certHash /debug /f "C:\Users\Paul\Desktop\Code Signing\RWCodeSigningCert4.pfx" /t http://timestamp.comodoca.com/authenticode /v /p <PASSWORD> "<PATH_TO_STANDALONE>"
> 
> 
> I really do not want to return to have to manually signing standalones!
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From paul at researchware.com  Tue Oct 10 08:59:48 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 08:59:48 -0400
Subject: Window code signing certificate source recommendations
In-Reply-To: <43513E10-F2D5-4C81-8EAA-BA41F78B0FC7@milby7.com>
References: <bfd548c9-22c9-bae3-d178-5bc3cfc49553@researchware.com>
 <43513E10-F2D5-4C81-8EAA-BA41F78B0FC7@milby7.com>
Message-ID: <1b33544d-7c1d-6c07-f6d7-6f46ce2cd77c@researchware.com>

On 10/10/2023 8:38 AM, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote:
> While not directly applicable, you may be able script it similar to using a CAC.
>
> DOD uses Smart Cards for authentication and you can have command line tools use the card for authentication (runas /smartcard program).  What happens is that you get a pop up from the system to choose cert and enter PIN.  A similar process may be possible.
>
> Brian Milby
> brian at milby7.com
>

Thanks Brian,

The USB token from Comodo/Sertigo is effectively the same process. You 
still use signtool in a command line to sign, but then the Safenet 
Authentication Client pops up a dialog to have you manually enter the 
USB token password/PIN to grant access to the cert.

This is a change from the previous process that required no manual 
intervention. However, perhaps it is an industry wide change and 
something I will just have to live with.Sigh.



From paul at researchware.com  Tue Oct 10 09:05:17 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 09:05:17 -0400
Subject: Window code signing certificate source recommendations
In-Reply-To: <ECCDEE61-0CDF-4411-B0B5-65E862D2E49F@m-r-d.de>
References: <bfd548c9-22c9-bae3-d178-5bc3cfc49553@researchware.com>
 <ECCDEE61-0CDF-4411-B0B5-65E862D2E49F@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <0d0feb9a-c216-c3cb-0a7a-9972fb723048@researchware.com>

On 10/10/2023 8:53 AM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote:
> Hello Paul,
>
> unfortunately this is the "new" standard. Since 1st June 2023 private keys has to be stored on a Token.
> https://www.sslpoint.com/new-private-key-storage-requirement-for-standard-code-signing-certificates/
>
> There is no way anymore to export a certificate for example to .pfx.
> And much more of a pain, it is not possible anymore to code sign Windows app under macOS or at least i was not able to so so far.
>
> I have a "cloud" certificate from Certum which i purchased from SSL Point (https://www.sslpoint.com <https://www.sslpoint.com/>)
>
> With this type of certificate the private key is not stored on a USB token. This "cloud" certifcate  works similar to a usb token. I also have to install some software. This software allow me to login to the "cloud" and after successful login i can use that certificate
> with Microsoft's signtool and JARsigner.
> https://www.files.certum.eu/documents/manual_en/Code-Signing-signing-the-code-using-tools-like-Singtool-and-Jarsigner_v2.3.pdf
>
> So to automate your signing, you just have to keep a Windows PC running and make sure that you are logged in to the "Cloud". As long as the software is logged in you have access to the certificate.
> I don't know if this is also the case with the USB Token. Could not test it, because i do not have a usb token. ;)
>
>
> Regards,
> Matthias

First, thank you for the very informative reply (with links!)

Second, this "new" standard STINKS!

The cloud cert sound interesting, but we recently renewed out macOS cert 
and now we've just renewed our Windows cert, so, short of trying to get 
money back from Comodo and switching to the "cloud", I guess I am stuck 
with the "new" crappy standard.

I do not see how large software companies that automate build, signing, 
and even QA testing can accept this change. But they must of the 
suppliers of certs would not go this route for loss of income.



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Tue Oct 10 09:56:28 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 15:56:28 +0200
Subject: Window code signing certificate source recommendations
In-Reply-To: <0d0feb9a-c216-c3cb-0a7a-9972fb723048@researchware.com>
References: <bfd548c9-22c9-bae3-d178-5bc3cfc49553@researchware.com>
 <ECCDEE61-0CDF-4411-B0B5-65E862D2E49F@m-r-d.de>
 <0d0feb9a-c216-c3cb-0a7a-9972fb723048@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <8A49D398-80A5-4C6F-BC80-3852A5614588@m-r-d.de>

Paul,

just googled a little bit...

If you have a safenet USB Token, than there seems to be a way to disable the password pop up.

https://www.finalbuilder.com/resources/blogs/code-signing-with-usb-tokens

> Am 10.10.2023 um 15:05 schrieb Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> On 10/10/2023 8:53 AM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hello Paul,
>> 
>> unfortunately this is the "new" standard. Since 1st June 2023 private keys has to be stored on a Token.
>> https://www.sslpoint.com/new-private-key-storage-requirement-for-standard-code-signing-certificates/
>> 
>> There is no way anymore to export a certificate for example to .pfx.
>> And much more of a pain, it is not possible anymore to code sign Windows app under macOS or at least i was not able to so so far.
>> 
>> I have a "cloud" certificate from Certum which i purchased from SSL Point (https://www.sslpoint.com <https://www.sslpoint.com/>)
>> 
>> With this type of certificate the private key is not stored on a USB token. This "cloud" certifcate  works similar to a usb token. I also have to install some software. This software allow me to login to the "cloud" and after successful login i can use that certificate
>> with Microsoft's signtool and JARsigner.
>> https://www.files.certum.eu/documents/manual_en/Code-Signing-signing-the-code-using-tools-like-Singtool-and-Jarsigner_v2.3.pdf
>> 
>> So to automate your signing, you just have to keep a Windows PC running and make sure that you are logged in to the "Cloud". As long as the software is logged in you have access to the certificate.
>> I don't know if this is also the case with the USB Token. Could not test it, because i do not have a usb token. ;)
>> 
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Matthias
> 
> First, thank you for the very informative reply (with links!)
> 
> Second, this "new" standard STINKS!
> 
> The cloud cert sound interesting, but we recently renewed out macOS cert and now we've just renewed our Windows cert, so, short of trying to get money back from Comodo and switching to the "cloud", I guess I am stuck with the "new" crappy standard.
> 
> I do not see how large software companies that automate build, signing, and even QA testing can accept this change. But they must of the suppliers of certs would not go this route for loss of income.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From paul at researchware.com  Tue Oct 10 11:43:29 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 11:43:29 -0400
Subject: Another (macOS) Code signing guidance question...
Message-ID: <478a7f56-e24e-fb8b-a29e-872572ff150a@researchware.com>

I am looking at https://developer.apple.com/support/xcode

To meet Apple's Nov 1 deadline of switch from the old Notarization tool 
(which I current use on Mojave) to the new one, I need to get set up on 
macOS 14 Sonoma.

To me, from the Apple page, it look like I need xcode 15 (deployment 
targets of macOS 10.13-14) BUT I am concerned that the Livecode lesson 
by Matthias and his mrSignNotarizeHelper tool recommend Xcode 13 or 14 
(I don't see Xcode 15 mentioned). I may have (or probably did) miss 
something!

The Apple Developer page suggest that Xcode 14.3.1 has a minim OS 
requirement of macOS Ventura 13 which suggest it can run on macOS 14 Sonoma?

I only have a single macBook Air with Sonoma available to get sup up for 
the new notarization method. I really don't want to try to downgrade the 
macOS (I don't even know how to do that).




From martyknappster at gmail.com  Tue Oct 10 11:57:38 2023
From: martyknappster at gmail.com (Marty Knapp)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 08:57:38 -0700
Subject: Another (macOS) Code signing guidance question...
In-Reply-To: <478a7f56-e24e-fb8b-a29e-872572ff150a@researchware.com>
References: <478a7f56-e24e-fb8b-a29e-872572ff150a@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <37AB0D23-F3FA-4886-9020-8BA284122BD6@gmail.com>

I’ve been using AppWrapper for a few years and just deployed an upgrade for Sonoma compatibility. I don’t use the app store - just sell from my own web site.

It’s a paid app but has a free trial:
https://ohanaware.com/appwrapper/


---
Marty Knapp

> On Oct 10, 2023, at 8:43 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I am looking at https://developer.apple.com/support/xcode
> 
> To meet Apple's Nov 1 deadline of switch from the old Notarization tool (which I current use on Mojave) to the new one, I need to get set up on macOS 14 Sonoma.
> 
> To me, from the Apple page, it look like I need xcode 15 (deployment targets of macOS 10.13-14) BUT I am concerned that the Livecode lesson by Matthias and his mrSignNotarizeHelper tool recommend Xcode 13 or 14 (I don't see Xcode 15 mentioned). I may have (or probably did) miss something!
> 
> The Apple Developer page suggest that Xcode 14.3.1 has a minim OS requirement of macOS Ventura 13 which suggest it can run on macOS 14 Sonoma?
> 
> I only have a single macBook Air with Sonoma available to get sup up for the new notarization method. I really don't want to try to downgrade the macOS (I don't even know how to do that).
> 



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Tue Oct 10 11:57:59 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 15:57:59 +0000
Subject: Another (macOS) Code signing guidance question...
In-Reply-To: <478a7f56-e24e-fb8b-a29e-872572ff150a@researchware.com>
References: <478a7f56-e24e-fb8b-a29e-872572ff150a@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <93EF02D3-6741-4F25-B2E0-BE4337540055@iotecdigital.com>

There’s this: 
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204904


I’m fairly certain that it will install the most recent version of MacOS however. To install the original MacOS, there’s this:
https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/erase-and-reinstall-macos-mh27903/mac

Bob S


> On Oct 10, 2023, at 8:43 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I only have a single macBook Air with Sonoma available to get sup up for the new notarization method. I really don't want to try to downgrade the macOS (I don't even know how to do that).


From paul at researchware.com  Tue Oct 10 12:02:53 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 12:02:53 -0400
Subject: Another (macOS) Code signing guidance question...
In-Reply-To: <478a7f56-e24e-fb8b-a29e-872572ff150a@researchware.com>
References: <478a7f56-e24e-fb8b-a29e-872572ff150a@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <28948322-89d2-559a-1e08-4a9b7fa555a3@researchware.com>

On 10/10/2023 11:43 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
> I am looking at https://developer.apple.com/support/xcode
>
> To meet Apple's Nov 1 deadline of switch from the old Notarization 
> tool (which I current use on Mojave) to the new one, I need to get set 
> up on macOS 14 Sonoma.
>
> To me, from the Apple page, it look like I need xcode 15 (deployment 
> targets of macOS 10.13-14) BUT I am concerned that the Livecode lesson 
> by Matthias and his mrSignNotarizeHelper tool recommend Xcode 13 or 14 
> (I don't see Xcode 15 mentioned). I may have (or probably did) miss 
> something!
>
> The Apple Developer page suggest that Xcode 14.3.1 has a minim OS 
> requirement of macOS Ventura 13 which suggest it can run on macOS 14 
> Sonoma?
>
> I only have a single macBook Air with Sonoma available to get sup up 
> for the new notarization method. I really don't want to try to 
> downgrade the macOS (I don't even know how to do that).
>

Ok, I may have answered one of my questions. I downloaded the XCode 
14.3.1 Command Line Tools from https://developer.apple.com/download/all/ 
and tried to install them on Sonoma and the installer will not let me 
stating the "OS is too new". I guess Xcode 15 is the minimum for Sonoma.

Now I will try the "Command Line Tools for Xcode 15" from the same Apple 
download page.



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Oct 10 12:36:05 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 11:36:05 -0500
Subject: Another (macOS) Code signing guidance question...
In-Reply-To: <478a7f56-e24e-fb8b-a29e-872572ff150a@researchware.com>
References: <478a7f56-e24e-fb8b-a29e-872572ff150a@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <18b1a721108.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

I got that far at least. I couldn't notarize on Monterey but my client on 
Sonoma had no problem using mrSignNotarizeHelper on Sonoma with Xcode 15. 
My issues happened after that. So I think you're safe using the tool on Sonoma.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On October 10, 2023 10:45:37 AM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I am looking at https://developer.apple.com/support/xcode
>
> To meet Apple's Nov 1 deadline of switch from the old Notarization tool
> (which I current use on Mojave) to the new one, I need to get set up on
> macOS 14 Sonoma.
>
> To me, from the Apple page, it look like I need xcode 15 (deployment
> targets of macOS 10.13-14) BUT I am concerned that the Livecode lesson
> by Matthias and his mrSignNotarizeHelper tool recommend Xcode 13 or 14
> (I don't see Xcode 15 mentioned). I may have (or probably did) miss
> something!
>
> The Apple Developer page suggest that Xcode 14.3.1 has a minim OS
> requirement of macOS Ventura 13 which suggest it can run on macOS 14 Sonoma?
>
> I only have a single macBook Air with Sonoma available to get sup up for
> the new notarization method. I really don't want to try to downgrade the
> macOS (I don't even know how to do that).
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From paul at researchware.com  Tue Oct 10 12:48:19 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 12:48:19 -0400
Subject: Another (macOS) Code signing guidance question...
In-Reply-To: <18b1a721108.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <478a7f56-e24e-fb8b-a29e-872572ff150a@researchware.com>
 <18b1a721108.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <eacf5374-7ef7-4f2b-e4fc-d1e1923e878b@researchware.com>

On 10/10/2023 12:36 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
> I got that far at least. I couldn't notarize on Monterey but my client 
> on Sonoma had no problem using mrSignNotarizeHelper on Sonoma with 
> Xcode 15. My issues happened after that. So I think you're safe using 
> the tool on Sonoma.
>

Thank you for the encouraging information!

Currently, I am struggling with get a signing cert into the keychain on 
the macBook Air with Sonoma. The cert I downloaded and double-click to 
add to the keychain on Mojave, generates an error trying to do the same 
on Sonoma (to bad as it was good until 2026!)

Not sure why it gives an error and would load into the keychain on Sonoma.


From ludovic.thebault at laposte.net  Tue Oct 10 13:14:48 2023
From: ludovic.thebault at laposte.net (Ludovic THEBAULT)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 19:14:48 +0200
Subject: Compiling for iOS : something wrong with Xcode and Sonoma
Message-ID: <CFD1C284-343F-47D3-85D0-73F855901290@laposte.net>

Hello,

Is livecode uptodate is compatible with Sonoma ?
When I try to compile for iOS I get this error :

There was an error while saving the standalone application linking for arm (arm64) failed with 2023-10-10 18:51:36.404 xcodebuild[74950:3301090] Writing error result bundle to
/var/folders/j2/bpc701v12p78vsrq5Ifpdd×00000gn/T/ResultBundle_2023-10-10_18-51-0036.xcresult
xcodebuild: error: SDK "iphoneos 16.2" cannot be located.
xcrun; error: sh -c '/Users/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/us/bin/ xcodebuild -sdk iphoneoslo. -hnd q++ <> devnul tailed with exit code 10384: (null) (errno=No such hle or directory)
xcrun: error: unable to find utility "g++", not a developer tool or in PATH

In the settings of livecode, I’ve selected Xcode 14.2 which doesn’t work on sonoma.
In Xcode 15 i’ve installed 16.2 simulator.
I’ve tried to install commandlinetools for Xcode 14.2 but it was refused.

Any ideas ?

Thanks !

Ludovic


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Oct 10 15:14:03 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 14:14:03 -0500
Subject: Can't codesign Mac app
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq9PV3qWeT41kfY9PEv_ewniO5zT=xL+xu4saEfqmerQnQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7d213e86-a1bd-be2a-e809-27c563860bc8@hyperactivesw.com>
 <efabbbb6-d81d-84a3-6e46-e3201dc2520b@hyperactivesw.com>
 <ecd8dc74-b08b-85cb-7183-d1a0d69dd41b@hyperactivesw.com>
 <849EDABE-ADF0-4A24-81F9-B87E1C1CE139@buffalo.edu>
 <4aa5f3d5-4119-86b7-318f-0e8fb8b0d6cd@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CA+JfEq9PV3qWeT41kfY9PEv_ewniO5zT=xL+xu4saEfqmerQnQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <664a260d-acdf-467b-afa5-411a1c095765@hyperactivesw.com>

On 10/10/23 1:07 AM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote:
> Have you included any entitlements when codesigning the app? I suggest including all of these: 
> https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1293515-entitlements-for-signed-and-notarized-apps There 
> is an option to do that in the settings (iirc) in Matthias' notarization tool.

I hadn't, but we just tried it and it still failed with all entitlements enabled.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Oct 10 15:53:08 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 14:53:08 -0500
Subject: Can't codesign Mac app
In-Reply-To: <FA243C78-0627-487F-8A99-2C43CAED530B@m-r-d.de>
References: <7d213e86-a1bd-be2a-e809-27c563860bc8@hyperactivesw.com>
 <efabbbb6-d81d-84a3-6e46-e3201dc2520b@hyperactivesw.com>
 <ecd8dc74-b08b-85cb-7183-d1a0d69dd41b@hyperactivesw.com>
 <849EDABE-ADF0-4A24-81F9-B87E1C1CE139@buffalo.edu>
 <4aa5f3d5-4119-86b7-318f-0e8fb8b0d6cd@hyperactivesw.com>
 <FA243C78-0627-487F-8A99-2C43CAED530B@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <15b38e23-3ffe-4190-915c-0146d515c177@hyperactivesw.com>

On 10/10/23 2:19 AM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote:
> Hello Jacque,
> 
> didn't you get the reason back why the app is rejected when you run 'spctl --assess --raw --verbose <appPath>' ?

No, all I got was what I posted. It was very short.

> I am not sure why your app i rejected. If you want to, i could test your app with spctl.... here on Sonoma.

I think I'll take you up on that, I'll send you the app in email. Thank you so much!

> Did you by any chance add additonal data to the standalone after it was built? >
> Or are you using any additional code which might be not in the right place in the bundle?
> There is an archive topic about this here
> https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/114943

No, I just used the app the way LC built it. After the first few failures I looked at the app 
contents and it seemed to be okay. That's when I noticed the dylib file.

> I am really sorry that i am of no real help.

You are always a huge help! I'll send you an email.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From dochawk at gmail.com  Tue Oct 10 16:50:38 2023
From: dochawk at gmail.com (doc hawk)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 13:50:38 -0700
Subject: Can't codesign Mac app
In-Reply-To: <7d213e86-a1bd-be2a-e809-27c563860bc8@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <7d213e86-a1bd-be2a-e809-27c563860bc8@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <CANQHZSFeMhTBDBxXF1mMka5AX0K09FDTx_-LGK-YAaAejDfYJw@mail.gmail.com>

jacqui juggled,

So then I tried notarizationHelper V4 but keep getting "no identity found"
errors.


Ah.

An identity crisis!

:)

From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Tue Oct 10 17:04:49 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 23:04:49 +0200
Subject: Another (macOS) Code signing guidance question...
In-Reply-To: <eacf5374-7ef7-4f2b-e4fc-d1e1923e878b@researchware.com>
References: <478a7f56-e24e-fb8b-a29e-872572ff150a@researchware.com>
 <18b1a721108.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <eacf5374-7ef7-4f2b-e4fc-d1e1923e878b@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <0B7574CC-CAFC-45C9-B8ED-A7C253BA9E97@m-r-d.de>

Paul,

you should be able to download and "install" the Apple certificates directly in Xcode.
To do so, open settings in Xcode and select "accounts" icon. There you should see a window which allows you to manage your certificates which also includes to install them.

Matthias


> Am 10.10.2023 um 18:48 schrieb Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> On 10/10/2023 12:36 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
>> I got that far at least. I couldn't notarize on Monterey but my client on Sonoma had no problem using mrSignNotarizeHelper on Sonoma with Xcode 15. My issues happened after that. So I think you're safe using the tool on Sonoma.
>> 
> 
> Thank you for the encouraging information!
> 
> Currently, I am struggling with get a signing cert into the keychain on the macBook Air with Sonoma. The cert I downloaded and double-click to add to the keychain on Mojave, generates an error trying to do the same on Sonoma (to bad as it was good until 2026!)
> 
> Not sure why it gives an error and would load into the keychain on Sonoma.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From paul at researchware.com  Tue Oct 10 17:16:46 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 17:16:46 -0400
Subject: AW: Another (macOS) Code signing guidance question...
In-Reply-To: <478a7f56-e24e-fb8b-a29e-872572ff150a@researchware.com>
References: <478a7f56-e24e-fb8b-a29e-872572ff150a@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <2e9c987b-9bfd-5ecf-aa3a-1104d095f725@researchware.com>

Under macOS 14.0 Sonoma on a M1 macBook Air,  I have set up the Command 
Line Tools for XCode 15.0 and have successfully signed, notarized, and 
stapled a Livecode Standalone using the new Apple notarization command 
that goes into effect on November 1, 2023

Effect 1-NOV-2023, the notarization command changes from "xcrun altool 
..." to "xcrun notarytool ..." and instead of getting an email when 
Notarization is done, the terminal command now waits and tells you when 
the process if "accepted" (i.e. done)

Thanks to Matthias Rebbe's excellent documentation at 
https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1653720-code-signing-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore-with-xcode-13-and-up 
the actual notarization part was easy.

The hardest part was getting the correct Certificates into the Keychain 
on the macBook Air. When code signing I kept getting an "identity not 
found" (or something like that) that meant I didn't have the "right" 
certificate or the certificate installed where it was needed.

I had downloaded the SAME cert that I current use to code sign under 
Mojave from the Apple Developer site to the macBook Ait and double 
clicked it. This initially kept generating an error could that the cert 
could not be used. This was because I had not selected the "Login" 
keychain in the keychain tool. After selecting the Login keychain and 
drag and dropping teh download cert file it installed without error and 
said it was a valid certificate. Still, the command line to code sign 
would not work, reporting "identify not found"


Comparing the Keychain on Mojave to the Keychain on Sonoma, I could see 
2 things (1) The downloaded signing cert was only showing up under the 
"Certificates" tab on Sonoma and under BOTH the "Certificates" tab and 
the "My Certificates" tabs under Mojave and (2) the Mojave keychain had 
2 additional certs installed in both tabs - one an Apple developer cert 
and one with a long string of hex and dashed that i think was a reissued 
Apple Intermediate cert.

I ultimately had to delete the downloaded code signing cert on Sonoma, 
export the SAME developer code signing cert and the 2 other apple ones 
from Mojave, move them to Sonoma, and import them into the Sonoma 
keychain and then code signing work as documented.

I thought I would tell this tale just in case it helps someone else.


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Oct 10 18:07:02 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 17:07:02 -0500
Subject: AW: Another (macOS) Code signing guidance question...
In-Reply-To: <2e9c987b-9bfd-5ecf-aa3a-1104d095f725@researchware.com>
References: <478a7f56-e24e-fb8b-a29e-872572ff150a@researchware.com>
 <2e9c987b-9bfd-5ecf-aa3a-1104d095f725@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <9b176893-d16d-40a0-af73-c0034a7b3989@hyperactivesw.com>

On 10/10/23 4:16 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
> The hardest part was getting the correct Certificates into the Keychain on the macBook Air. 
> When code signing I kept getting an "identity not found" (or something like that) that meant I 
> didn't have the "right" certificate or the certificate installed where it was needed.

Thanks for this. That was the error I was getting too. Apparently both of us have identity 
crises (ref: Doc Hawk. The smartalec.)

Guess I need to dig around in Keychain.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From merakosp at gmail.com  Tue Oct 10 20:23:24 2023
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2023 03:23:24 +0300
Subject: AW: Another (macOS) Code signing guidance question...
In-Reply-To: <9b176893-d16d-40a0-af73-c0034a7b3989@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <478a7f56-e24e-fb8b-a29e-872572ff150a@researchware.com>
 <2e9c987b-9bfd-5ecf-aa3a-1104d095f725@researchware.com>
 <9b176893-d16d-40a0-af73-c0034a7b3989@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq-wBz5MOUH_y_pWGNVs5wdXnksaikNUR_A=teEZz8V5Sw@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all,

Just downloading the certificate from your account in the apple dev
website, and using it in a different machine from the one it was created
will not work (you get identity not found), because you need the private
key as well.

This is why you have to export the certificate from the old machine,
because exporting the certificate exports the private key that is
associated with it as well.

Kind regards,
Panos

On Wed, 11 Oct 2023, 01:08 J. Landman Gay via use-livecode, <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On 10/10/23 4:16 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
> > The hardest part was getting the correct Certificates into the Keychain
> on the macBook Air.
> > When code signing I kept getting an "identity not found" (or something
> like that) that meant I
> > didn't have the "right" certificate or the certificate installed where
> it was needed.
>
> Thanks for this. That was the error I was getting too. Apparently both of
> us have identity
> crises (ref: Doc Hawk. The smartalec.)
>
> Guess I need to dig around in Keychain.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From stephen at barncard.com  Wed Oct 11 03:41:57 2023
From: stephen at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2023 00:41:57 -0700
Subject: Window code signing certificate source recommendations
In-Reply-To: <8A49D398-80A5-4C6F-BC80-3852A5614588@m-r-d.de>
References: <bfd548c9-22c9-bae3-d178-5bc3cfc49553@researchware.com>
 <ECCDEE61-0CDF-4411-B0B5-65E862D2E49F@m-r-d.de>
 <0d0feb9a-c216-c3cb-0a7a-9972fb723048@researchware.com>
 <8A49D398-80A5-4C6F-BC80-3852A5614588@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <CAFmQfH+pTSvsfaM4NbG8CLTPK4qzin1fmNXYqisqG6mp7hy3uQ@mail.gmail.com>

Programming is just not fun any more.
Being creative is now just completely overwhelmed by ... whatever this
is... just to get the thing on the air so people won't hack or steal.
*Security* is a job we need AI to handle, not to replace our own creativity
in the app itself.....
sqb
--
Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA -
mixstream.org


On Tue, Oct 10, 2023 at 6:57 AM matthias rebbe via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Paul,
>
> just googled a little bit...
>
> If you have a safenet USB Token, than there seems to be a way to disable
> the password pop up.
>
> https://www.finalbuilder.com/resources/blogs/code-signing-with-usb-tokens
>
> > Am 10.10.2023 um 15:05 schrieb Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> >
> > On 10/10/2023 8:53 AM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote:
> >> Hello Paul,
> >>
> >> unfortunately this is the "new" standard. Since 1st June 2023 private
> keys has to be stored on a Token.
> >>
> https://www.sslpoint.com/new-private-key-storage-requirement-for-standard-code-signing-certificates/
> >>
> >> There is no way anymore to export a certificate for example to .pfx.
> >> And much more of a pain, it is not possible anymore to code sign
> Windows app under macOS or at least i was not able to so so far.
> >>
> >> I have a "cloud" certificate from Certum which i purchased from SSL
> Point (https://www.sslpoint.com <https://www.sslpoint.com/>)
> >>
> >> With this type of certificate the private key is not stored on a USB
> token. This "cloud" certifcate  works similar to a usb token. I also have
> to install some software. This software allow me to login to the "cloud"
> and after successful login i can use that certificate
> >> with Microsoft's signtool and JARsigner.
> >>
> https://www.files.certum.eu/documents/manual_en/Code-Signing-signing-the-code-using-tools-like-Singtool-and-Jarsigner_v2.3.pdf
> >>
> >> So to automate your signing, you just have to keep a Windows PC running
> and make sure that you are logged in to the "Cloud". As long as the
> software is logged in you have access to the certificate.
> >> I don't know if this is also the case with the USB Token. Could not
> test it, because i do not have a usb token. ;)
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Matthias
> >
> > First, thank you for the very informative reply (with links!)
> >
> > Second, this "new" standard STINKS!
> >
> > The cloud cert sound interesting, but we recently renewed out macOS cert
> and now we've just renewed our Windows cert, so, short of trying to get
> money back from Comodo and switching to the "cloud", I guess I am stuck
> with the "new" crappy standard.
> >
> > I do not see how large software companies that automate build, signing,
> and even QA testing can accept this change. But they must of the suppliers
> of certs would not go this route for loss of income.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From paul at researchware.com  Wed Oct 11 06:26:21 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2023 06:26:21 -0400
Subject: Window code signing certificate source recommendations
In-Reply-To: <8A49D398-80A5-4C6F-BC80-3852A5614588@m-r-d.de>
References: <bfd548c9-22c9-bae3-d178-5bc3cfc49553@researchware.com>
 <ECCDEE61-0CDF-4411-B0B5-65E862D2E49F@m-r-d.de>
 <0d0feb9a-c216-c3cb-0a7a-9972fb723048@researchware.com>
 <8A49D398-80A5-4C6F-BC80-3852A5614588@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <21eff6a2-ab3a-4b27-ef1e-0837e5b56765@researchware.com>

On 10/10/2023 9:56 AM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote:
> Paul,
>
> just googled a little bit...
>
> If you have a safenet USB Token, than there seems to be a way to disable the password pop up.
>
> https://www.finalbuilder.com/resources/blogs/code-signing-with-usb-tokens
>
>

Thank you for this!

We have to get back to doing some development now that we have a new 
Windows Cert and our mac Cert is working with Apple's Nov 1 new 
notarization process, but I'll give this a try when I have a chance.


From markclark at mac.com  Wed Oct 11 08:03:48 2023
From: markclark at mac.com (Mark Clark)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2023 07:03:48 -0500
Subject: Another (macOS) Code signing guidance question...
In-Reply-To: <9b176893-d16d-40a0-af73-c0034a7b3989@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <478a7f56-e24e-fb8b-a29e-872572ff150a@researchware.com>
 <2e9c987b-9bfd-5ecf-aa3a-1104d095f725@researchware.com>
 <9b176893-d16d-40a0-af73-c0034a7b3989@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <9AF15A9D-1325-4413-85ED-3FDBA74D3870@mac.com>

I haven't tried the API/web service for notarizing apps. But there appears to be a way and it might be simpler in the long run. Still need the (right) keys:)


https://developer.apple.com/documentation/notaryapi/submitting_software_for_notarization_over_the_web


On Oct 10, 2023, at 5:07 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

On 10/10/23 4:16 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
> The hardest part was getting the correct Certificates into the Keychain on the macBook Air. When code signing I kept getting an "identity not found" (or something like that) that meant I didn't have the "right" certificate or the certificate installed where it was needed.

Thanks for this. That was the error I was getting too. Apparently both of us have identity crises (ref: Doc Hawk. The smartalec.)

Guess I need to dig around in Keychain.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Wed Oct 11 09:21:28 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2023 09:21:28 -0400
Subject: No progress updates on LC 10. Am i the only one who is concerned?
In-Reply-To: <5f636baf-03c6-18e5-45dd-483c3219bc66@cogapp.com>
References: <8F7D10FF-1B32-4177-BFDC-7CEE721ACF8A@m-r-d.de>
 <13ec553f-f7ef-8fb7-42b5-77e6205cec4b@cogapp.com>
 <CAKCLKtouxq+aXSTuAmrygOS=X_y9E0RJtCRnjO=1VOwburVTcw@mail.gmail.com>
 <51859D53-03FD-4FA6-9C97-33B04803F016@mail.com>
 <CAKCLKtpwpgf=nXkSAk762ZuD9ZU+qs31aB0hXd7LNaidaniiPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <53887cdf-9bf4-4534-0741-ab08156b180b@cogapp.com>
 <5f636baf-03c6-18e5-45dd-483c3219bc66@cogapp.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycPR9Zz9wtvtV12Yw6K0AAe02+vzf9c1NdZQPLNND3bkxw@mail.gmail.com>

it's october. do you know where the script compiler and usable html5 are?

On Mon, Aug 21, 2023 at 12:10 PM Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Sad update: it's just happened to me again, with Bracket Completion
> switched
> off. I literally checked just before starting to type the format
> statement;
> after it crashed and I relaunched 10.0.0.dp5, I checked again. It was
> still
> switched off.
>
> I see that the bug is marked awaiting release - but it's not mentioned in
> the
> release notes for 10.0.0dp6.
>
> :-(
>
>
> On 26/07/2023 09:58, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode wrote:
> > Oooh - I hadn't spotted that. (With only a little bit of fear) I'll
> venture
> > back into 10dp5 and turn that off. Thanks Geoff!
> >
> > On 26/07/2023 03:49, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode wrote:
> >> So, not to be too much of an apologist, but the issue doesn't seem like
> a
> >> showstopper to me.
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jul 25, 2023 at 10:36 AM Dick Kriesel via use-livecode <
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On Jul 25, 2023, at 11:37 AM, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode <
> >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Maybe a silly question, but that issue lists "turn on bracket
> completion"
> >>>> as a step to reproduce. If bracket completion is off, is it safe?
> >>>
> >>> Hi, Geoff. I filed the report. With bracket completion off, I saw no
> such
> >>> problem.
> >>> — Dick
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> use-livecode mailing list
> >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >>> subscription preferences:
> >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription
> >> preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription
> > preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Wed Oct 11 09:41:09 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2023 15:41:09 +0200
Subject: No progress updates on LC 10. Am i the only one who is concerned?
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycPR9Zz9wtvtV12Yw6K0AAe02+vzf9c1NdZQPLNND3bkxw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8F7D10FF-1B32-4177-BFDC-7CEE721ACF8A@m-r-d.de>
 <13ec553f-f7ef-8fb7-42b5-77e6205cec4b@cogapp.com>
 <CAKCLKtouxq+aXSTuAmrygOS=X_y9E0RJtCRnjO=1VOwburVTcw@mail.gmail.com>
 <51859D53-03FD-4FA6-9C97-33B04803F016@mail.com>
 <CAKCLKtpwpgf=nXkSAk762ZuD9ZU+qs31aB0hXd7LNaidaniiPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <53887cdf-9bf4-4534-0741-ab08156b180b@cogapp.com>
 <5f636baf-03c6-18e5-45dd-483c3219bc66@cogapp.com>
 <CADCoycPR9Zz9wtvtV12Yw6K0AAe02+vzf9c1NdZQPLNND3bkxw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1FAB985C-2868-4564-906D-64233AD1F359@m-r-d.de>

I am afraid the whole power is put into the Web platform. 
And i am not sure how i should feel about it.



> Am 11.10.2023 um 15:21 schrieb Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> it's october. do you know where the script compiler and usable html5 are?
> 
> On Mon, Aug 21, 2023 at 12:10 PM Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Sad update: it's just happened to me again, with Bracket Completion
>> switched
>> off. I literally checked just before starting to type the format
>> statement;
>> after it crashed and I relaunched 10.0.0.dp5, I checked again. It was
>> still
>> switched off.
>> 
>> I see that the bug is marked awaiting release - but it's not mentioned in
>> the
>> release notes for 10.0.0dp6.
>> 
>> :-(
>> 
>> 
>> On 26/07/2023 09:58, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Oooh - I hadn't spotted that. (With only a little bit of fear) I'll
>> venture
>>> back into 10dp5 and turn that off. Thanks Geoff!
>>> 
>>> On 26/07/2023 03:49, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> So, not to be too much of an apologist, but the issue doesn't seem like
>> a
>>>> showstopper to me.
>>>> 
>>>> On Tue, Jul 25, 2023 at 10:36 AM Dick Kriesel via use-livecode <
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jul 25, 2023, at 11:37 AM, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode <
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Maybe a silly question, but that issue lists "turn on bracket
>> completion"
>>>>>> as a step to reproduce. If bracket completion is off, is it safe?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi, Geoff. I filed the report. With bracket completion off, I saw no
>> such
>>>>> problem.
>>>>> — Dick
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription
>>>> preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription
>>> preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>   and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org  Wed Oct 11 11:28:27 2023
From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (William Prothero)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2023 08:28:27 -0700
Subject: No progress updates on LC 10. Am i the only one who is concerned?
In-Reply-To: <1FAB985C-2868-4564-906D-64233AD1F359@m-r-d.de>
References: <1FAB985C-2868-4564-906D-64233AD1F359@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <1DBE4E66-92D0-4FCF-87B1-49A0A85E823D@earthlearningsolutions.org>

Just my take,
I'm just currently using livecode to write personal software. The various issues related to the app store and compatibility with other platforms are not something I have time or energy for. I'm retired and like to work on fun, rewarding projects, not frustrating searches for the one setting that will move me forward. 

However, the possibility that Livecode might become a platform for developing web applications is extremely interesting to me. It would encourage me to develop and post interactive learning games that I've thought about. However, the development process would need an interface that works in a well documented, straightforward way without the need to learn auxiliary programs (E.g. Javascript, php, python, c++, etc).

If I could write a program in livecode that deploys as easily as currently possible on my own desktop, I would be very overjoyed.

Bill
William A. Prothero, PhD
Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science
University of California, Santa Barbara


From ludovic.thebault at laposte.net  Wed Oct 11 12:06:37 2023
From: ludovic.thebault at laposte.net (Ludovic THEBAULT)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2023 18:06:37 +0200
Subject: Compiling for iOS : something wrong with Xcode and Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <CFD1C284-343F-47D3-85D0-73F855901290@laposte.net>
References: <CFD1C284-343F-47D3-85D0-73F855901290@laposte.net>
Message-ID: <B8C27330-F2BD-47E2-9E27-EA5C6F745CF8@laposte.net>



> Le 10 oct. 2023 à 19:14, Ludovic THEBAULT via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> a écrit :
> 
> Hello,
> 
> Is livecode uptodate is compatible with Sonoma ?
> When I try to compile for iOS I get this error :
> 
> There was an error while saving the standalone application linking for arm (arm64) failed with 2023-10-10 18:51:36.404 xcodebuild[74950:3301090] Writing error result bundle to
> /var/folders/j2/bpc701v12p78vsrq5Ifpdd×00000gn/T/ResultBundle_2023-10-10_18-51-0036.xcresult
> xcodebuild: error: SDK "iphoneos 16.2" cannot be located.
> xcrun; error: sh -c '/Users/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/us/bin/ xcodebuild -sdk iphoneoslo. -hnd q++ <> devnul tailed with exit code 10384: (null) (errno=No such hle or directory)
> xcrun: error: unable to find utility "g++", not a developer tool or in PATH
> 
> In the settings of livecode, I’ve selected Xcode 14.2 which doesn’t work on sonoma.
> In Xcode 15 i’ve installed 16.2 simulator.
> I’ve tried to install commandlinetools for Xcode 14.2 but it was refused.
> 
> Any ideas ?
> 
> Thanks !
> 

Hello, I found the solution :

In the terminal, use this command to switch to the « good » Xcode :
sudo xcode-select -switch /path/to/Xcode.app



Ludovic


From tom at makeshyft.com  Wed Oct 11 14:09:55 2023
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2023 14:09:55 -0400
Subject: No progress updates on LC 10. Am i the only one who is concerned?
In-Reply-To: <1DBE4E66-92D0-4FCF-87B1-49A0A85E823D@earthlearningsolutions.org>
References: <1FAB985C-2868-4564-906D-64233AD1F359@m-r-d.de>
 <1DBE4E66-92D0-4FCF-87B1-49A0A85E823D@earthlearningsolutions.org>
Message-ID: <CAPzQJLLD1HANFxkRe8mC+X4A67UunukcdrvLsirFa0DTVLcDYQ@mail.gmail.com>

On October 7th 2022, Kevin said that there would be a preview of the script
compiler in the next few weeks.
Thats the last update I found in the blog.
Software is hard, and we all miss deadlines, but an update would be good.
I tried to reach out to Mark W to get an update, but received no response.


On Wed, Oct 11, 2023 at 11:29 AM William Prothero via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Just my take,
> I'm just currently using livecode to write personal software. The various
> issues related to the app store and compatibility with other platforms are
> not something I have time or energy for. I'm retired and like to work on
> fun, rewarding projects, not frustrating searches for the one setting that
> will move me forward.
>
> However, the possibility that Livecode might become a platform for
> developing web applications is extremely interesting to me. It would
> encourage me to develop and post interactive learning games that I've
> thought about. However, the development process would need an interface
> that works in a well documented, straightforward way without the need to
> learn auxiliary programs (E.g. Javascript, php, python, c++, etc).
>
> If I could write a program in livecode that deploys as easily as currently
> possible on my own desktop, I would be very overjoyed.
>
> Bill
> William A. Prothero, PhD
> Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science
> University of California, Santa Barbara
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Oct 11 14:19:44 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2023 13:19:44 -0500
Subject: AW: Another (macOS) Code signing guidance question...
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq-wBz5MOUH_y_pWGNVs5wdXnksaikNUR_A=teEZz8V5Sw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <478a7f56-e24e-fb8b-a29e-872572ff150a@researchware.com>
 <2e9c987b-9bfd-5ecf-aa3a-1104d095f725@researchware.com>
 <9b176893-d16d-40a0-af73-c0034a7b3989@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CA+JfEq-wBz5MOUH_y_pWGNVs5wdXnksaikNUR_A=teEZz8V5Sw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e7a23c6d-9b45-42de-919d-95cc8d9c797f@hyperactivesw.com>

On 10/10/23 7:23 PM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote:
> Just downloading the certificate from your account in the apple dev website, and using it in a 
> different machine from the one it was created will not work (you get identity not found),

I wish the error message would be more informative. If I'd known the error was related to the 
certificate I'd have saved myself a lot of time. Thanks for this.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Oct 11 14:23:58 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2023 13:23:58 -0500
Subject: No progress updates on LC 10. Am i the only one who is concerned?
In-Reply-To: <1DBE4E66-92D0-4FCF-87B1-49A0A85E823D@earthlearningsolutions.org>
References: <1FAB985C-2868-4564-906D-64233AD1F359@m-r-d.de>
 <1DBE4E66-92D0-4FCF-87B1-49A0A85E823D@earthlearningsolutions.org>
Message-ID: <0fbc5bb5-0138-4246-b3e1-b7427a97fa83@hyperactivesw.com>

On 10/11/23 10:28 AM, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote:
> However, the development process would need an interface that works in a well documented, 
> straightforward way

Right. I tried LC Create for a few days but without documentation I didn't get very far. I 
couldn't figure out what syntax to use on all the new widgets and after some hours I gave up.

Every new control should have at least a list of messages/functions it uses. Without that, 
about all you can to is play with layouts for now. That's not an insignificant thing, but it is 
limiting.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Wed Oct 11 14:24:43 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2023 20:24:43 +0200
Subject: Another (macOS) Code signing guidance question...
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq-wBz5MOUH_y_pWGNVs5wdXnksaikNUR_A=teEZz8V5Sw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <478a7f56-e24e-fb8b-a29e-872572ff150a@researchware.com>
 <2e9c987b-9bfd-5ecf-aa3a-1104d095f725@researchware.com>
 <9b176893-d16d-40a0-af73-c0034a7b3989@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CA+JfEq-wBz5MOUH_y_pWGNVs5wdXnksaikNUR_A=teEZz8V5Sw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <83796971-3CB2-47E9-89F3-27D91288EB71@m-r-d.de>

Panos,


> Am 11.10.2023 um 02:23 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> Just downloading the certificate from your account in the apple dev
> website, and using it in a different machine from the one it was created
> will not work (you get identity not found), because you need the private
> key as well.
> 
But this is not case when the key chain is saved to iCloud and the other machine is also using the same iCloud account, isn't it.
At least i had never problems to download the certificates to an other computer which had also access to the same key chain in iCloud.

Regards,
Matthias



> This is why you have to export the certificate from the old machine,
> because exporting the certificate exports the private key that is
> associated with it as well.
> 
> Kind regards,
> Panos
> 
> On Wed, 11 Oct 2023, 01:08 J. Landman Gay via use-livecode, <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 10/10/23 4:16 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
>>> The hardest part was getting the correct Certificates into the Keychain
>> on the macBook Air.
>>> When code signing I kept getting an "identity not found" (or something
>> like that) that meant I
>>> didn't have the "right" certificate or the certificate installed where
>> it was needed.
>> 
>> Thanks for this. That was the error I was getting too. Apparently both of
>> us have identity
>> crises (ref: Doc Hawk. The smartalec.)
>> 
>> Guess I need to dig around in Keychain.
>> 
>> --
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Wed Oct 11 14:38:38 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2023 14:38:38 -0400
Subject: No progress updates on LC 10. Am i the only one who is concerned?
In-Reply-To: <0fbc5bb5-0138-4246-b3e1-b7427a97fa83@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <1FAB985C-2868-4564-906D-64233AD1F359@m-r-d.de>
 <1DBE4E66-92D0-4FCF-87B1-49A0A85E823D@earthlearningsolutions.org>
 <0fbc5bb5-0138-4246-b3e1-b7427a97fa83@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycPqGFL4xAwRgqDY99kMntimY1kw9=LHAZMafTkC_ZwEiA@mail.gmail.com>

"a few weeks" was also last october, then november, then last december.
i get it, i'm starting to sound like one of the grumpy old guys.
i'm also one who threw down for an html5 license (waiting for it to be
usable), and paid for a compiler license, what, eleven months ago?
i used to dismiss all the folks who complained about lc-forever, or
ic-reinvented, or whatever the campaign was from was it a decade ago when
lc went OSS? it can't be a decade ago.
unfortunately, the fact is that the sales pitches, year-after-year, are all
pay now, get later, and we seem to be left waiting, each time.

On Wed, Oct 11, 2023 at 2:24 PM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On 10/11/23 10:28 AM, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote:
> > However, the development process would need an interface that works in a
> well documented,
> > straightforward way
>
> Right. I tried LC Create for a few days but without documentation I didn't
> get very far. I
> couldn't figure out what syntax to use on all the new widgets and after
> some hours I gave up.
>
> Every new control should have at least a list of messages/functions it
> uses. Without that,
> about all you can to is play with layouts for now. That's not an
> insignificant thing, but it is
> limiting.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From paul at researchware.com  Wed Oct 11 14:55:49 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2023 14:55:49 -0400
Subject: AW: Another (macOS) Code signing guidance question...
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq-wBz5MOUH_y_pWGNVs5wdXnksaikNUR_A=teEZz8V5Sw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <478a7f56-e24e-fb8b-a29e-872572ff150a@researchware.com>
 <2e9c987b-9bfd-5ecf-aa3a-1104d095f725@researchware.com>
 <9b176893-d16d-40a0-af73-c0034a7b3989@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CA+JfEq-wBz5MOUH_y_pWGNVs5wdXnksaikNUR_A=teEZz8V5Sw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6fedbecb-2b71-1ba0-39ad-f854b371b5d4@researchware.com>

On 10/10/2023 8:23 PM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> Just downloading the certificate from your account in the apple dev
> website, and using it in a different machine from the one it was created
> will not work (you get identity not found), because you need the private
> key as well.
>
> This is why you have to export the certificate from the old machine,
> because exporting the certificate exports the private key that is
> associated with it as well.
>
> Kind regards,
> Panos
>

Thank you Panos.  If you or Matthias ever come across (or write) a goo 
step by step for getting Apple Certs to a new machine (new cert from 
Apple to a new machine, existing cert from Apple to a new machine, 
existing cert from one machine to another I think are the 3 
possibilities) you should link to it or add it to the code signing and 
notarization lesson.

We only do this rarely. For example I have a Apple Code signing cert 
that was created in 2021 and good until 2026. That was a replacement for 
an earlier one. I put than on a Mojave system that I have used to code 
sign since 2021. In 2 years time I have not touch the certs and would 
not have until 2026 if Apple did change the notarization command and 
make me move to a newer macOS. So I forget how its done. I even forget 
where I filed my own documentation on how to do it. So it's like trying 
to do it from scratch each time.

I try to do all the code signing (mac and win) and notarization (mac) by 
command line even though there are GUI tools (Matthias's excellent stack 
and AppWrapper and on and on) so that I at least know the steps in the 
process and id something goes wrong (because the vendor changes 
something) I know what step blew up.

Any way, thank you again.




From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Wed Oct 11 16:58:59 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2023 20:58:59 +0000
Subject: How rawKeyUp is handled
Message-ID: <SJ0PR02MB75331871B12F1F1F096F1067B2CCA@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>

Hi all.

I just found a strange oddity where on MacOS when I type a keyboard key in a field with a rawKeyUp handler, the letter is typed first, then the field gets the rawKeyUp message. This allows me to check the contents of the field for empty in case the user hit the backspace key to erase whatever was in the field.

On WINDOWS however, the letter is put into the field AFTER the rawKeyUp message, and since the handler exits to top if the field is empty, I can never type anything into the field!

More specifically, I have a field I use for hot typing a value, and after 1 second of no new data, it launches a database query to search for records matching what was entered. I call it the FindBar group and I use it EVERYWHERE!

So my question is, is this the expected behavior on a Windows OS??

Bob S

From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Wed Oct 11 17:18:18 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2023 21:18:18 +0000
Subject: How rawKeyUp is handled
In-Reply-To: <SJ0PR02MB75331871B12F1F1F096F1067B2CCA@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB75331871B12F1F1F096F1067B2CCA@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <SJ0PR02MB753350C733AA0EA31A39FE7FB2CCA@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>

Okay, belay my last. Something else is preventing the key from entering the field. I just tested it in new stack with a new field. 

Bob S


-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> On Behalf Of Bob Sneidar via use-livecode
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2023 1:59 PM
To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Cc: Bob Sneidar <bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com>
Subject: How rawKeyUp is handled

Hi all.

I just found a strange oddity where on MacOS when I type a keyboard key in a field with a rawKeyUp handler, the letter is typed first, then the field gets the rawKeyUp message. This allows me to check the contents of the field for empty in case the user hit the backspace key to erase whatever was in the field.

On WINDOWS however, the letter is put into the field AFTER the rawKeyUp message, and since the handler exits to top if the field is empty, I can never type anything into the field!

More specifically, I have a field I use for hot typing a value, and after 1 second of no new data, it launches a database query to search for records matching what was entered. I call it the FindBar group and I use it EVERYWHERE!

So my question is, is this the expected behavior on a Windows OS??

Bob S
_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From david.bovill at gmail.com  Thu Oct 12 08:53:41 2023
From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 13:53:41 +0100
Subject: Questions on Wasm export, licenses and file size
In-Reply-To: <BN8PR14MB2913C5C41722881CA0B1E684AFE5A@BN8PR14MB2913.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
References: <BN8PR14MB2913C5C41722881CA0B1E684AFE5A@BN8PR14MB2913.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAGASioOYQezyihnKgTvjxtkageUJO0ea_SUUfG+Sxr36azxpMQ@mail.gmail.com>

I know that HTML5 export is not quite ready yet - but I’m a patient man :)
I would like to know how it works / will work - particularly with regard to
the size of the exports.

With the old JavaScript export you had a separation between the engine  and
stacks such that you could cache the engine part in the browser to speed up
the loading of the much smaller stacks. Is that the case (or it is intended
to be the case in the future) with the wasm export?

I’m looking towards a world in which multiple wasm components written in
various languages sit on a web page talking to each other.

From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Oct 12 09:35:16 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 15:35:16 +0200
Subject: Android: Myapp stopped
Message-ID: <1606522B-12FB-4A06-9672-42801556D1C8@major-k.de>

Hi friends,

I am trying to install my app on the tablets of my bandmembers
and succeeded on all but one!?

Info: 
Samsung Galaxy Tab S
Android 6.0.1, API 23

After installation from LC (Test) I tap on the icon and get the alert:
-> Leadsheeter stopped (angehalten) 
immediately, no more info.

I already emptied cache and data and whatnot and even restarted 
the device a couple of times, no dice!?

The only info I could get after starting Android Studio was in the
"Device File Explorer" panel for the device which reads:
----------------------------------------
data -> app -> com.major-k.de.leadsheeter-1
run-as: Could not set capabilities: Operation not permitted
----------------------------------------
API too old? Anything else I can check in Android Studio?

Any hints very welcome!

Thanks a lot in advance.


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Thu Oct 12 09:43:30 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 15:43:30 +0200
Subject: Android: Myapp stopped
In-Reply-To: <1606522B-12FB-4A06-9672-42801556D1C8@major-k.de>
References: <1606522B-12FB-4A06-9672-42801556D1C8@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <868BFAC3-2668-4F7D-8810-13BE51051F60@m-r-d.de>

Hm,
just a shot in the dark, did you enable the Development mode on the tablets?



> Am 12.10.2023 um 15:35 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi friends,
> 
> I am trying to install my app on the tablets of my bandmembers
> and succeeded on all but one!?
> 
> Info: 
> Samsung Galaxy Tab S
> Android 6.0.1, API 23
> 
> After installation from LC (Test) I tap on the icon and get the alert:
> -> Leadsheeter stopped (angehalten) 
> immediately, no more info.
> 
> I already emptied cache and data and whatnot and even restarted 
> the device a couple of times, no dice!?
> 
> The only info I could get after starting Android Studio was in the
> "Device File Explorer" panel for the device which reads:
> ----------------------------------------
> data -> app -> com.major-k.de.leadsheeter-1
> run-as: Could not set capabilities: Operation not permitted
> ----------------------------------------
> API too old? Anything else I can check in Android Studio?
> 
> Any hints very welcome!
> 
> Thanks a lot in advance.
> 
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Oct 12 09:47:33 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 15:47:33 +0200
Subject: Android: Myapp stopped
In-Reply-To: <868BFAC3-2668-4F7D-8810-13BE51051F60@m-r-d.de>
References: <1606522B-12FB-4A06-9672-42801556D1C8@major-k.de>
 <868BFAC3-2668-4F7D-8810-13BE51051F60@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <F203628A-2F09-4A71-9696-13331A9ECCD7@major-k.de>



> Am 12.10.2023 um 15:43 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hm,
> just a shot in the dark, did you enable the Development mode on the tablets?

sure! 

A propos dark:
At midnight on a graveyard I tapped SEVEN times on the buildnumber, 
that should have done the trick, right! :-D

>> Am 12.10.2023 um 15:35 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Hi friends,
>> 
>> I am trying to install my app on the tablets of my bandmembers
>> and succeeded on all but one!?
>> 
>> Info: 
>> Samsung Galaxy Tab S
>> Android 6.0.1, API 23
>> 
>> After installation from LC (Test) I tap on the icon and get the alert:
>> -> Leadsheeter stopped (angehalten) 
>> immediately, no more info.
>> 
>> I already emptied cache and data and whatnot and even restarted 
>> the device a couple of times, no dice!?
>> 
>> The only info I could get after starting Android Studio was in the
>> "Device File Explorer" panel for the device which reads:
>> ----------------------------------------
>> data -> app -> com.major-k.de.leadsheeter-1
>> run-as: Could not set capabilities: Operation not permitted
>> ----------------------------------------
>> API too old? Anything else I can check in Android Studio?
>> 
>> Any hints very welcome!

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu Oct 12 11:36:34 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 15:36:34 +0000
Subject: Windows Standalone strands windows tasks
Message-ID: <SJ0PR02MB7533F0AE31AA9A3E67B47373B2D3A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>

Hi all.

I have a standalone that uses a splash stack, which upon launch displays a startup graphic, then hides itself and opens the mainstack of my project. On MacOS when I "quit" the entire application quits. On Windows however the splash stack (which is the stack the standalone is built from) keeps running, and if I re-launch the standalone it creates a second instance of the app in memory.

How do I get the standalone to quit when I close the mainstack in Windows?

Bob S

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Oct 12 12:07:54 2023
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (ambassador at fourthworld.com)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 16:07:54 +0000
Subject: Questions on Wasm export, licenses and file siz
Message-ID: <bc403825e4859c15ac1ce40f4e17acd098cf6d7e@fourthworld.com>

David Bovill wrote:
> With the old JavaScript export you had a separation between the engine
> and stacks such that you could cache the engine part in the browser to
> speed up the loading of the much smaller stacks. Is that the case (or
> it is intended to be the case in the future) with the wasm export?

A couple years ago Andre outlined the differences between JS and WASM, worth reviewing:
https://www.mail-archive.com/use-livecode%40lists.runrev.com/msg111108.html

With your background you're probably well aware of the differences, but since we see so many conceptualizing WASM as "compiled JavaScript" it's worth taking a moment to review their respective boundaries.

Given that WASM has no direct access to the DOM, and therefore no direct manipulation of controls or events, it is not a drop-in replacement for JS.

In LC terms, it may be best to think about WASM's relationship to the browser as similar to what externals are to LC.

Of course externals are very powerful; most of the v8 bullet points were new externals. But they still need LC Script to interface with our apps.

The degree to which LC Ltd will be able to compile the whole engine into WASM is a good question, but it seems clear it will be limited in some ways, and it's unlikely we'll see compilation of LC Script to WASM for the foreseeable future.

The good news is that the LC Community has a growing body of knowledge around JavaScript: some of the cooler widgets are just wrappers around a browser instance running JS/HTML/CSS.  And given the vast amounts of web-native (JS/HTML/CSS) code out in the world, folks are continually finding new ways to integrate the native web stack with LC stack objects nicely.

If web deployment is the goal, I see no downside and much to be gained from spending more time practicing JavaScript. While different from xTalk, it's a good language, and arguably closer to what xTalk might have looked like if HyperCard premiered 10 years later than it did.

Being comfortable with JS means being able to fill in gaps between your LC work and LC's web export more easily, and even within LC today it's the gateway to vast components via the browser widget.

JS is the only interactive language included in browsers.  The best time to learn it was yesterday. The second best time is today.

Like AppleScript, PowerShell, bash, and others, learning other languages opens new doors for integrating LC across a wide variety of systems.

Bonus: the more you learn JS, the less you need to wait for with the feature completion in LC's web export.

As for your question about deployment size, we can expect a WASMified engine to be smaller than its JS version, but there are so many factors that go into that it may just be too early to tell.

If you do a web search for "WASM replace JavaScript" you'll not only get deeper discussions than what I've offered here, but also some confounding benchmarks where it's possible to have compiled WASM larger than the source code, and sometimes only slightly small, and then some amazingly smaller.  So much will depend on so many implementation details...

--
Richard Gaskin
Fourth World Systems


From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Oct 12 12:19:41 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 18:19:41 +0200
Subject: Windows Standalone strands windows tasks
In-Reply-To: <SJ0PR02MB7533F0AE31AA9A3E67B47373B2D3A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533F0AE31AA9A3E67B47373B2D3A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <632618A9-F5A1-4245-BC4D-4B87C943F220@major-k.de>

Hi Bob,

> Am 12.10.2023 um 17:36 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi all.
> 
> I have a standalone that uses a splash stack, which upon launch displays a startup graphic, then hides itself and opens the mainstack of my project. On MacOS when I "quit" the entire application quits. On Windows however the splash stack (which is the stack the standalone is built from) keeps running, and if I re-launch the standalone it creates a second instance of the app in memory.
> 
> How do I get the standalone to quit when I close the mainstack in Windows?

add this to the script your mainstack:
-------------------------
on closestack
  close stack "your splash stack here"
  ## do more closestack stuff
end closestack
-------------------------
That should do the trick.

Hint:
To avoid this "Windows feature:
>> if I re-launch the standalone it creates a second instance of the app in memory.
add a dummy handler to your standalone/splash stack script:
-------------------------
on relaunch
   ## NADA!
end relaunch
-------------------------

> Bob S

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Thu Oct 12 12:39:25 2023
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 12:39:25 -0400
Subject: Questions on Wasm export, licenses and file siz
In-Reply-To: <bc403825e4859c15ac1ce40f4e17acd098cf6d7e@fourthworld.com>
References: <bc403825e4859c15ac1ce40f4e17acd098cf6d7e@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <008e01d9fd2a$ac0087f0$040197d0$@net>

ambassador at fourthworld.com wrote:

"JS is the only interactive language included in browsers.  The best time to
learn it was yesterday. The second best time is today."

+1
My today was about 5 years ago. JS has been an asset to my workflow ever
since. Being able get JS callbacks and invoke JS from LC has opened many new
doors.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu Oct 12 12:42:34 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 16:42:34 +0000
Subject: Windows Standalone strands windows tasks
In-Reply-To: <632618A9-F5A1-4245-BC4D-4B87C943F220@major-k.de>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533F0AE31AA9A3E67B47373B2D3A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <632618A9-F5A1-4245-BC4D-4B87C943F220@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <SJ0PR02MB75335F1B8A9BA620BA744193B2D3A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>

Thanks I'll give that a try. I think I am already quitting the splash stack, because my MacOS works properly, but the second part I never knew about. Unfortunately my Apple laptop is in the shop so I won't be able to test until Monday. 

Bob S 

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> On Behalf Of Klaus major-k via use-livecode
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2023 9:20 AM
To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Cc: Klaus major-k <klaus at major-k.de>
Subject: Re: Windows Standalone strands windows tasks

Hi Bob,

> Am 12.10.2023 um 17:36 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi all.
> 
> I have a standalone that uses a splash stack, which upon launch displays a startup graphic, then hides itself and opens the mainstack of my project. On MacOS when I "quit" the entire application quits. On Windows however the splash stack (which is the stack the standalone is built from) keeps running, and if I re-launch the standalone it creates a second instance of the app in memory.
> 
> How do I get the standalone to quit when I close the mainstack in Windows?

add this to the script your mainstack:
-------------------------
on closestack
  close stack "your splash stack here"
  ## do more closestack stuff
end closestack
-------------------------
That should do the trick.

Hint:
To avoid this "Windows feature:
>> if I re-launch the standalone it creates a second instance of the app in memory.
add a dummy handler to your standalone/splash stack script:
-------------------------
on relaunch
   ## NADA!
end relaunch
-------------------------

> Bob S

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de


_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bvlahos at mac.com  Thu Oct 12 13:10:25 2023
From: bvlahos at mac.com (Bill Vlahos)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 10:10:25 -0700
Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <EF774AE9-5843-455E-87D7-1A0D50AEEA31@livecode.com>
References: <mailman.1.1696089601.89108.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <B4839189-B0EC-4D3F-AB4B-2C04F0EB0563@uzh.ch>
 <8B04CB3A-EE65-4346-BC42-B5A10E599003@livecode.com>
 <05A7E909-CE87-47A0-B288-ADEB8F18643C@m-r-d.de>
 <EF774AE9-5843-455E-87D7-1A0D50AEEA31@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <20EC1E2E-1619-4F1D-AA81-0907042C6357@mac.com>

Heather,

Do you think Apple will address this issue in an update to Sonoma?

Rebuilding all my applications will be difficult.

Thank you,
Bill Vlahos

> On Oct 3, 2023, at 6:56 AM, Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Matthias,
> 
> I think ANY menu will cause a crash. |f your app has no menus it will not be affected by the issue. Otherwise, it will crash, as does LiveCode itself  prior to the fix.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On 3 Oct 2023, at 11:53, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Heather,
>> 
>> thanks for clarifying the reason for the crashes.
>> 
>> At least this grants that standalones created with older LC versions will run as long as they do not contain a customized menu, right?
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Matthias
>> 
>> 
>>> Am 03.10.2023 um 12:24 schrieb Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> Hi Rolf,
>>> 
>>> No, the problem is not related to signing. The problem centers on how Sonoma handles menus, and any app that contains a menu will crash on Sonoma unless built with LiveCode 9.6.10 or 10 dp-6.
>>> 
>>> Best Regards,
>>> 
>>> Heather
>>> 
>>> Heather Laine
>>> Customer Services Manager
>>> LiveCode Ltd
>>> www.livecode.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 3 Oct 2023, at 09:53, Rolf Kocherhans via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> @Matthias and the Mothership,
>>>> 
>>>> My Apple Developer account expired several years ago, and I'm facing a critical issue with one of my LiveCode Apps, Clarify, developed by Trevor DeVore. This app is extremely important to me.
>>>> 
>>>> Unfortunately, Clarify is no longer actively developed and has started crashing with Sonoma. I am wondering if there's a possibility to resolve this issue by signing the bundles. I am more than willing to invest in a new subscription with Apple if that's what it takes – I can't imagine my work without Clarify.
>>>> 
>>>> Could someone please test if signing the bundles might make an app functional again?
>>>> Your assistance in this matter would mean the world to me.
>>>> 
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Rolf
>>>> 
>>>> Am 30.09.2023 um 18:00 schrieb use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com:
>>>> 
>>>> Maybe my observation is not the reason for the crash. Would really not make sense, when an unsigned app would crash instead of reporting an alert.
>>>> 
>>>> But code signing  the complete Livecode app bundle would proof it.
>>>> 
>>>> Did someone btw had a look at the system log file after the crash?
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From david.bovill at gmail.com  Thu Oct 12 15:16:40 2023
From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 20:16:40 +0100
Subject: Questions on Wasm export, licenses and file siz
In-Reply-To: <bc403825e4859c15ac1ce40f4e17acd098cf6d7e@fourthworld.com>
References: <bc403825e4859c15ac1ce40f4e17acd098cf6d7e@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <CAGASioPB6ug9EJGC6NqiKv_LBBR78foRyB_1ygc+QTeeFKFCSA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Richard specifically I need to know if I create an web page with
multiple HTML5  export embeds whether the Livecode wasm approach forces the
engine to be exported multiple times.

On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 at 17:09, ambassador--- via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> David Bovill wrote:
> > With the old JavaScript export you had a separation between the engine
> > and stacks such that you could cache the engine part in the browser to
> > speed up the loading of the much smaller stacks. Is that the case (or
> > it is intended to be the case in the future) with the wasm export?
>
> A couple years ago Andre outlined the differences between JS and WASM,
> worth reviewing:
> https://www.mail-archive.com/use-livecode%40lists.runrev.com/msg111108.html
>
> With your background you're probably well aware of the differences, but
> since we see so many conceptualizing WASM as "compiled JavaScript" it's
> worth taking a moment to review their respective boundaries.
>
> Given that WASM has no direct access to the DOM, and therefore no direct
> manipulation of controls or events, it is not a drop-in replacement for JS.
>
> In LC terms, it may be best to think about WASM's relationship to the
> browser as similar to what externals are to LC.
>
> Of course externals are very powerful; most of the v8 bullet points were
> new externals. But they still need LC Script to interface with our apps.
>
> The degree to which LC Ltd will be able to compile the whole engine into
> WASM is a good question, but it seems clear it will be limited in some
> ways, and it's unlikely we'll see compilation of LC Script to WASM for the
> foreseeable future.
>
> The good news is that the LC Community has a growing body of knowledge
> around JavaScript: some of the cooler widgets are just wrappers around a
> browser instance running JS/HTML/CSS.  And given the vast amounts of
> web-native (JS/HTML/CSS) code out in the world, folks are continually
> finding new ways to integrate the native web stack with LC stack objects
> nicely.
>
> If web deployment is the goal, I see no downside and much to be gained
> from spending more time practicing JavaScript. While different from xTalk,
> it's a good language, and arguably closer to what xTalk might have looked
> like if HyperCard premiered 10 years later than it did.
>
> Being comfortable with JS means being able to fill in gaps between your LC
> work and LC's web export more easily, and even within LC today it's the
> gateway to vast components via the browser widget.
>
> JS is the only interactive language included in browsers.  The best time
> to learn it was yesterday. The second best time is today.
>
> Like AppleScript, PowerShell, bash, and others, learning other languages
> opens new doors for integrating LC across a wide variety of systems.
>
> Bonus: the more you learn JS, the less you need to wait for with the
> feature completion in LC's web export.
>
> As for your question about deployment size, we can expect a WASMified
> engine to be smaller than its JS version, but there are so many factors
> that go into that it may just be too early to tell.
>
> If you do a web search for "WASM replace JavaScript" you'll not only get
> deeper discussions than what I've offered here, but also some confounding
> benchmarks where it's possible to have compiled WASM larger than the source
> code, and sometimes only slightly small, and then some amazingly smaller.
> So much will depend on so many implementation details...
>
> --
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Oct 12 16:37:14 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 15:37:14 -0500
Subject: Android: Myapp stopped
In-Reply-To: <1606522B-12FB-4A06-9672-42801556D1C8@major-k.de>
References: <1606522B-12FB-4A06-9672-42801556D1C8@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <26bd222d-1014-4025-a1fe-8e4a431301f0@hyperactivesw.com>

What minimum Android version is set in Standalone Settings? Does it include Android 6?

On 10/12/23 8:35 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi friends,
> 
> I am trying to install my app on the tablets of my bandmembers
> and succeeded on all but one!?
> 
> Info:
> Samsung Galaxy Tab S
> Android 6.0.1, API 23
> 
> After installation from LC (Test) I tap on the icon and get the alert:
> -> Leadsheeter stopped (angehalten)
> immediately, no more info.
> 
> I already emptied cache and data and whatnot and even restarted
> the device a couple of times, no dice!?
> 
> The only info I could get after starting Android Studio was in the
> "Device File Explorer" panel for the device which reads:
> ----------------------------------------
> data -> app -> com.major-k.de.leadsheeter-1
> run-as: Could not set capabilities: Operation not permitted
> ----------------------------------------
> API too old? Anything else I can check in Android Studio?
> 
> Any hints very welcome!
> 
> Thanks a lot in advance.
> 
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From heather at livecode.com  Fri Oct 13 04:36:45 2023
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 09:36:45 +0100
Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <20EC1E2E-1619-4F1D-AA81-0907042C6357@mac.com>
References: <mailman.1.1696089601.89108.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <B4839189-B0EC-4D3F-AB4B-2C04F0EB0563@uzh.ch>
 <8B04CB3A-EE65-4346-BC42-B5A10E599003@livecode.com>
 <05A7E909-CE87-47A0-B288-ADEB8F18643C@m-r-d.de>
 <EF774AE9-5843-455E-87D7-1A0D50AEEA31@livecode.com>
 <20EC1E2E-1619-4F1D-AA81-0907042C6357@mac.com>
Message-ID: <252DBA11-1A8B-41E3-93DA-DC2ED08A7274@livecode.com>

I don't think you can hope for that. It's not a bug, its a change in the way they are implementing menus.

Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 12 Oct 2023, at 18:10, Bill Vlahos <bvlahos at mac.com> wrote:
> 
> Heather,
> 
> Do you think Apple will address this issue in an update to Sonoma?
> 
> Rebuilding all my applications will be difficult.
> 
> Thank you,
> Bill Vlahos
> 
>> On Oct 3, 2023, at 6:56 AM, Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Matthias,
>> 
>> I think ANY menu will cause a crash. |f your app has no menus it will not be affected by the issue. Otherwise, it will crash, as does LiveCode itself  prior to the fix.
>> 
>> Best Regards,
>> 
>> Heather
>> 
>> Heather Laine
>> Customer Services Manager
>> LiveCode Ltd
>> www.livecode.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 3 Oct 2023, at 11:53, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Heather,
>>> 
>>> thanks for clarifying the reason for the crashes.
>>> 
>>> At least this grants that standalones created with older LC versions will run as long as they do not contain a customized menu, right?
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Matthias
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Am 03.10.2023 um 12:24 schrieb Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Rolf,
>>>> 
>>>> No, the problem is not related to signing. The problem centers on how Sonoma handles menus, and any app that contains a menu will crash on Sonoma unless built with LiveCode 9.6.10 or 10 dp-6.
>>>> 
>>>> Best Regards,
>>>> 
>>>> Heather
>>>> 
>>>> Heather Laine
>>>> Customer Services Manager
>>>> LiveCode Ltd
>>>> www.livecode.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On 3 Oct 2023, at 09:53, Rolf Kocherhans via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> @Matthias and the Mothership,
>>>>> 
>>>>> My Apple Developer account expired several years ago, and I'm facing a critical issue with one of my LiveCode Apps, Clarify, developed by Trevor DeVore. This app is extremely important to me.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Unfortunately, Clarify is no longer actively developed and has started crashing with Sonoma. I am wondering if there's a possibility to resolve this issue by signing the bundles. I am more than willing to invest in a new subscription with Apple if that's what it takes – I can't imagine my work without Clarify.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Could someone please test if signing the bundles might make an app functional again?
>>>>> Your assistance in this matter would mean the world to me.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Rolf
>>>>> 
>>>>> Am 30.09.2023 um 18:00 schrieb use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Maybe my observation is not the reason for the crash. Would really not make sense, when an unsigned app would crash instead of reporting an alert.
>>>>> 
>>>>> But code signing  the complete Livecode app bundle would proof it.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Did someone btw had a look at the system log file after the crash?
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 


From klaus at major-k.de  Fri Oct 13 04:48:10 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 10:48:10 +0200
Subject: Android: Myapp stopped
In-Reply-To: <26bd222d-1014-4025-a1fe-8e4a431301f0@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <1606522B-12FB-4A06-9672-42801556D1C8@major-k.de>
 <26bd222d-1014-4025-a1fe-8e4a431301f0@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <EA7DA380-CC5C-4931-8A64-0A66CD413A45@major-k.de>

Hi Jacque,

> Am 12.10.2023 um 22:37 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> What minimum Android version is set in Standalone Settings? Does it include Android 6?

it is set to 5, so yes, it should include version 6.

> On 10/12/23 8:35 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hi friends,
>> I am trying to install my app on the tablets of my bandmembers
>> and succeeded on all but one!?
>> Info:
>> Samsung Galaxy Tab S
>> Android 6.0.1, API 23
>> After installation from LC (Test) I tap on the icon and get the alert:
>> -> Leadsheeter stopped (angehalten)
>> immediately, no more info.
>> I already emptied cache and data and whatnot and even restarted
>> the device a couple of times, no dice!?
>> The only info I could get after starting Android Studio was in the
>> "Device File Explorer" panel for the device which reads:
>> ----------------------------------------
>> data -> app -> com.major-k.de.leadsheeter-1
>> run-as: Could not set capabilities: Operation not permitted
>> ----------------------------------------
>> API too old? Anything else I can check in Android Studio?
>> Any hints very welcome!
>> Thanks a lot in advance.
>> Best

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From david.bovill at gmail.com  Fri Oct 13 09:09:05 2023
From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 14:09:05 +0100
Subject: Questions on Wasm export, licenses and file siz
In-Reply-To: <CAGASioPB6ug9EJGC6NqiKv_LBBR78foRyB_1ygc+QTeeFKFCSA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bc403825e4859c15ac1ce40f4e17acd098cf6d7e@fourthworld.com>
 <CAGASioPB6ug9EJGC6NqiKv_LBBR78foRyB_1ygc+QTeeFKFCSA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGASioMPdx=Yu59TQdSnuGFVn0JHTdSe65yHforHLgZFvoPBdA@mail.gmail.com>

Lets take the following scenario:

1) We have a library of interactive components created in Livecode.  They
are structured as (Levure) components. They could be turned into script
components easily, or LCB based components with a little more work.
2) We wish to compose a series of apps based on these components in which
3-15 of them interact with each other on any given screen.
3) We can prototype and deliver these apps in a Livecode based prototype.
4) There is a project need for an advanced architecture that engages the
enthusiasm of University students and the wider developer community. We
therefore require a strategy that enables developers in a range of modern
language - particularly rust, javascript and python to participate.
5) It is a long term project - so we can take out time and wait for
technologies to mature. However we wish to deliver rapid prototypes that
can be tested with communities in the short term.

Given the above I’d like to be able to prototype the software(s) by
exporting these Livecode (Levure-style) components as wasm - and embed
these on web pages in which they communicate with each other securely.
Components that need speeding up, or reduced in file size once tested may
be rewritten eventually in another language.

My concern is:

- having several wasm components on a single web view will involve
multiplying the quite large engine download for each component?
- which licence will be required so that these wasm components over the
duration of the project?

On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 at 20:16, David Bovill <david.bovill at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Richard specifically I need to know if I create an web page with
> multiple HTML5  export embeds whether the Livecode wasm approach forces the
> engine to be exported multiple times.
>
> On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 at 17:09, ambassador--- via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> David Bovill wrote:
>> > With the old JavaScript export you had a separation between the engine
>> > and stacks such that you could cache the engine part in the browser to
>> > speed up the loading of the much smaller stacks. Is that the case (or
>> > it is intended to be the case in the future) with the wasm export?
>>
>> A couple years ago Andre outlined the differences between JS and WASM,
>> worth reviewing:
>>
>> https://www.mail-archive.com/use-livecode%40lists.runrev.com/msg111108.html
>>
>> With your background you're probably well aware of the differences, but
>> since we see so many conceptualizing WASM as "compiled JavaScript" it's
>> worth taking a moment to review their respective boundaries.
>>
>> Given that WASM has no direct access to the DOM, and therefore no direct
>> manipulation of controls or events, it is not a drop-in replacement for JS.
>>
>> In LC terms, it may be best to think about WASM's relationship to the
>> browser as similar to what externals are to LC.
>>
>> Of course externals are very powerful; most of the v8 bullet points were
>> new externals. But they still need LC Script to interface with our apps.
>>
>> The degree to which LC Ltd will be able to compile the whole engine into
>> WASM is a good question, but it seems clear it will be limited in some
>> ways, and it's unlikely we'll see compilation of LC Script to WASM for the
>> foreseeable future.
>>
>> The good news is that the LC Community has a growing body of knowledge
>> around JavaScript: some of the cooler widgets are just wrappers around a
>> browser instance running JS/HTML/CSS.  And given the vast amounts of
>> web-native (JS/HTML/CSS) code out in the world, folks are continually
>> finding new ways to integrate the native web stack with LC stack objects
>> nicely.
>>
>> If web deployment is the goal, I see no downside and much to be gained
>> from spending more time practicing JavaScript. While different from xTalk,
>> it's a good language, and arguably closer to what xTalk might have looked
>> like if HyperCard premiered 10 years later than it did.
>>
>> Being comfortable with JS means being able to fill in gaps between your
>> LC work and LC's web export more easily, and even within LC today it's the
>> gateway to vast components via the browser widget.
>>
>> JS is the only interactive language included in browsers.  The best time
>> to learn it was yesterday. The second best time is today.
>>
>> Like AppleScript, PowerShell, bash, and others, learning other languages
>> opens new doors for integrating LC across a wide variety of systems.
>>
>> Bonus: the more you learn JS, the less you need to wait for with the
>> feature completion in LC's web export.
>>
>> As for your question about deployment size, we can expect a WASMified
>> engine to be smaller than its JS version, but there are so many factors
>> that go into that it may just be too early to tell.
>>
>> If you do a web search for "WASM replace JavaScript" you'll not only get
>> deeper discussions than what I've offered here, but also some confounding
>> benchmarks where it's possible to have compiled WASM larger than the source
>> code, and sometimes only slightly small, and then some amazingly smaller.
>> So much will depend on so many implementation details...
>>
>> --
>> Richard Gaskin
>> Fourth World Systems
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Oct 13 11:41:32 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 10:41:32 -0500
Subject: Android: Myapp stopped
In-Reply-To: <EA7DA380-CC5C-4931-8A64-0A66CD413A45@major-k.de>
References: <1606522B-12FB-4A06-9672-42801556D1C8@major-k.de>
 <26bd222d-1014-4025-a1fe-8e4a431301f0@hyperactivesw.com>
 <EA7DA380-CC5C-4931-8A64-0A66CD413A45@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <18b29b333e0.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

I looked it up. It's a Samsung bug:
<https://stackoverflow.com/questions/37413667/run-as-could-not-set-capabilities-operation-not-permitted/47004505#47004505>

If you Google "Could not set capabilities: Operation not permitted " you'll 
see lots of results.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On October 13, 2023 3:49:32 AM Klaus major-k via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Jacque,
>
>> Am 12.10.2023 um 22:37 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>
>> What minimum Android version is set in Standalone Settings? Does it include 
>> Android 6?
>
> it is set to 5, so yes, it should include version 6.
>
>> On 10/12/23 8:35 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Hi friends,
>>> I am trying to install my app on the tablets of my bandmembers
>>> and succeeded on all but one!?
>>> Info:
>>> Samsung Galaxy Tab S
>>> Android 6.0.1, API 23
>>> After installation from LC (Test) I tap on the icon and get the alert:
>>> -> Leadsheeter stopped (angehalten)
>>> immediately, no more info.
>>> I already emptied cache and data and whatnot and even restarted
>>> the device a couple of times, no dice!?
>>> The only info I could get after starting Android Studio was in the
>>> "Device File Explorer" panel for the device which reads:
>>> ----------------------------------------
>>> data -> app -> com.major-k.de.leadsheeter-1
>>> run-as: Could not set capabilities: Operation not permitted
>>> ----------------------------------------
>>> API too old? Anything else I can check in Android Studio?
>>> Any hints very welcome!
>>> Thanks a lot in advance.
>>> Best
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
>
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From klaus at major-k.de  Fri Oct 13 11:50:02 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 17:50:02 +0200
Subject: Android: Myapp stopped
In-Reply-To: <18b29b333e0.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <1606522B-12FB-4A06-9672-42801556D1C8@major-k.de>
 <26bd222d-1014-4025-a1fe-8e4a431301f0@hyperactivesw.com>
 <EA7DA380-CC5C-4931-8A64-0A66CD413A45@major-k.de>
 <18b29b333e0.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <459C0F41-5D59-47D1-AA6E-74233478B5CF@major-k.de>

Hi Jacque,

> Am 13.10.2023 um 17:41 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> I looked it up. It's a Samsung bug:
> <https://stackoverflow.com/questions/37413667/run-as-could-not-set-capabilities-operation-not-permitted/47004505#47004505>
> If you Google "Could not set capabilities: Operation not permitted " you'll see lots of results.

thank you for this valuable info!
Too bad...

So it means the Samsung tablets with earlier versions of Android/API have this problem?
Our drummer and me also have Samsung tablets, but with Android 8.x resp Android 11.

> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On October 13, 2023 3:49:32 AM Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Jacque,
>> 
>>> Am 12.10.2023 um 22:37 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> What minimum Android version is set in Standalone Settings? Does it include Android 6?
>> 
>> it is set to 5, so yes, it should include version 6.
>> 
>>> On 10/12/23 8:35 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> Hi friends,
>>>> I am trying to install my app on the tablets of my bandmembers
>>>> and succeeded on all but one!?
>>>> Info:
>>>> Samsung Galaxy Tab S
>>>> Android 6.0.1, API 23
>>>> After installation from LC (Test) I tap on the icon and get the alert:
>>>> -> Leadsheeter stopped (angehalten)
>>>> immediately, no more info.
>>>> I already emptied cache and data and whatnot and even restarted
>>>> the device a couple of times, no dice!?
>>>> The only info I could get after starting Android Studio was in the
>>>> "Device File Explorer" panel for the device which reads:
>>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>> data -> app -> com.major-k.de.leadsheeter-1
>>>> run-as: Could not set capabilities: Operation not permitted
>>>> ----------------------------------------

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Oct 13 12:24:21 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 11:24:21 -0500
Subject: Android: Myapp stopped
In-Reply-To: <459C0F41-5D59-47D1-AA6E-74233478B5CF@major-k.de>
References: <1606522B-12FB-4A06-9672-42801556D1C8@major-k.de>
 <26bd222d-1014-4025-a1fe-8e4a431301f0@hyperactivesw.com>
 <EA7DA380-CC5C-4931-8A64-0A66CD413A45@major-k.de>
 <18b29b333e0.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <459C0F41-5D59-47D1-AA6E-74233478B5CF@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <18b29da6708.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

Yes, it seems like the bug was fixed in later versions. There are some 
workarounds in the stackoverflow link using terminal but I didn't 
understand them.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On October 13, 2023 10:51:26 AM Klaus major-k via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Jacque,
>
>> Am 13.10.2023 um 17:41 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>
>> I looked it up. It's a Samsung bug:
>> <https://stackoverflow.com/questions/37413667/run-as-could-not-set-capabilities-operation-not-permitted/47004505#47004505>
>> If you Google "Could not set capabilities: Operation not permitted " you'll 
>> see lots of results.
>
> thank you for this valuable info!
> Too bad...
>
> So it means the Samsung tablets with earlier versions of Android/API have 
> this problem?
> Our drummer and me also have Samsung tablets, but with Android 8.x resp 
> Android 11.
>
>> --
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>> On October 13, 2023 3:49:32 AM Klaus major-k via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Jacque,
>>>
>>>> Am 12.10.2023 um 22:37 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>>
>>>> What minimum Android version is set in Standalone Settings? Does it include 
>>>> Android 6?
>>>
>>> it is set to 5, so yes, it should include version 6.
>>>
>>>> On 10/12/23 8:35 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>>>>> Hi friends,
>>>>> I am trying to install my app on the tablets of my bandmembers
>>>>> and succeeded on all but one!?
>>>>> Info:
>>>>> Samsung Galaxy Tab S
>>>>> Android 6.0.1, API 23
>>>>> After installation from LC (Test) I tap on the icon and get the alert:
>>>>> -> Leadsheeter stopped (angehalten)
>>>>> immediately, no more info.
>>>>> I already emptied cache and data and whatnot and even restarted
>>>>> the device a couple of times, no dice!?
>>>>> The only info I could get after starting Android Studio was in the
>>>>> "Device File Explorer" panel for the device which reads:
>>>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>>> data -> app -> com.major-k.de.leadsheeter-1
>>>>> run-as: Could not set capabilities: Operation not permitted
>>>>> ----------------------------------------
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
>
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From klaus at major-k.de  Fri Oct 13 12:27:52 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 18:27:52 +0200
Subject: Android: Myapp stopped
In-Reply-To: <18b29da6708.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <1606522B-12FB-4A06-9672-42801556D1C8@major-k.de>
 <26bd222d-1014-4025-a1fe-8e4a431301f0@hyperactivesw.com>
 <EA7DA380-CC5C-4931-8A64-0A66CD413A45@major-k.de>
 <18b29b333e0.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <459C0F41-5D59-47D1-AA6E-74233478B5CF@major-k.de>
 <18b29da6708.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <3082E076-4503-4B9F-84CF-DC111576C415@major-k.de>

Hi Jaqcue,

> Am 13.10.2023 um 18:24 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Yes, it seems like the bug was fixed in later versions.

ah, thank you, I guessed.
So bad news for our guitarplayer/singer...

> There are some workarounds in the stackoverflow link using terminal but I didn't understand them.

Same here, so I wouldn't even try this! :-D

> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On October 13, 2023 10:51:26 AM Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Jacque,
>> 
>>> Am 13.10.2023 um 17:41 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> I looked it up. It's a Samsung bug:
>>> <https://stackoverflow.com/questions/37413667/run-as-could-not-set-capabilities-operation-not-permitted/47004505#47004505>
>>> If you Google "Could not set capabilities: Operation not permitted " you'll see lots of results.
>> 
>> thank you for this valuable info!
>> Too bad...
>> 
>> So it means the Samsung tablets with earlier versions of Android/API have this problem?
>> Our drummer and me also have Samsung tablets, but with Android 8.x resp Android 11.

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Oct 13 12:32:50 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 16:32:50 +0000
Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <252DBA11-1A8B-41E3-93DA-DC2ED08A7274@livecode.com>
References: <mailman.1.1696089601.89108.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <B4839189-B0EC-4D3F-AB4B-2C04F0EB0563@uzh.ch>
 <8B04CB3A-EE65-4346-BC42-B5A10E599003@livecode.com>
 <05A7E909-CE87-47A0-B288-ADEB8F18643C@m-r-d.de>
 <EF774AE9-5843-455E-87D7-1A0D50AEEA31@livecode.com>
 <20EC1E2E-1619-4F1D-AA81-0907042C6357@mac.com>
 <252DBA11-1A8B-41E3-93DA-DC2ED08A7274@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <SJ0PR02MB753347D5EBBD0207247ECE66B2D2A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>

Heather, just to be clear, I was under the implression that 9.6.10 and 10.0.6 WAS the fix for this. 

Bob S


-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> On Behalf Of Heather Laine via use-livecode
Sent: Friday, October 13, 2023 1:37 AM
To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Cc: Heather Laine <heather at livecode.com>
Subject: Re: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma

I don't think you can hope for that. It's not a bug, its a change in the way they are implementing menus.

Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Oct 13 13:46:14 2023
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 10:46:14 -0700
Subject: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
In-Reply-To: <SJ0PR02MB753347D5EBBD0207247ECE66B2D2A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB753347D5EBBD0207247ECE66B2D2A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <d1f9f298-bff7-4108-97e0-3d3efda4bbec@fourthworld.com>

We see it here in this list. We see it in the forums. We see it wherever 
app deployment is discussed:

OS requirements for packaging/stapling/signing apps are onerous.

At the edge of, and sometimes exceeding, being prohibitively so.

There's no point in making a standalone if you can't ship it.

If pro devs with decades of experience struggle with this, newcomers 
will run screaming.

SIMPLIFYING DEPLOYMENT IS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY.

Pardon the all-caps. I rarely use them. But this is important.

Simplifying deployment is more important than "AI".
Simplifying deployment is more important than "nocode".

It is the single biggest pain point.

And so it is the single biggest opportunity.

Fulfill the promise of "Everyone can code": focus on simplifying deployment.

Step 1: Acquire Matthias' great tool.

Step 2: Enhance it for current requirements across platforms.

Step 3: Look for every opportunity to further simplify the process, and 
take it, at least one more simplification with each new build.

This is important. It really is.

--

And no, web export will not magically save things.  Even when that 
becomes truly production-ready, it's only for web apps.  Not everything 
needs to be a web app.

There are a hundred ways to make web apps.

There are few ways to make cross-platform native apps.

And almost none that rival what LC can do on the desktop.

Play into strengths.  Make native deployment the best it can be.

When that's done, only then resume work on more peripheral features.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems


From klaus at major-k.de  Fri Oct 13 13:52:56 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 19:52:56 +0200
Subject: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
In-Reply-To: <d1f9f298-bff7-4108-97e0-3d3efda4bbec@fourthworld.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB753347D5EBBD0207247ECE66B2D2A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <d1f9f298-bff7-4108-97e0-3d3efda4bbec@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <31F57AB1-44B9-4E7E-8F5C-8297C373F4C7@major-k.de>

Bravo, Richard, you are so right, bravo!

> Am 13.10.2023 um 19:46 schrieb Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> We see it here in this list. We see it in the forums. We see it wherever app deployment is discussed:
> OS requirements for packaging/stapling/signing apps are onerous.
> At the edge of, and sometimes exceeding, being prohibitively so.
> There's no point in making a standalone if you can't ship it.
> If pro devs with decades of experience struggle with this, newcomers will run screaming.
> SIMPLIFYING DEPLOYMENT IS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY.
> Pardon the all-caps. I rarely use them. But this is important.
> Simplifying deployment is more important than "AI".
> Simplifying deployment is more important than "nocode".
> It is the single biggest pain point.
> And so it is the single biggest opportunity.
> Fulfill the promise of "Everyone can code": focus on simplifying deployment.
> Step 1: Acquire Matthias' great tool.
> Step 2: Enhance it for current requirements across platforms.
> Step 3: Look for every opportunity to further simplify the process, and take it, at least one more simplification with each new build.
> This is important. It really is.
> --
> And no, web export will not magically save things.  Even when that becomes truly production-ready, it's only for web apps.  Not everything needs to be a web app.
> There are a hundred ways to make web apps.
> There are few ways to make cross-platform native apps.
> And almost none that rival what LC can do on the desktop.
> Play into strengths.  Make native deployment the best it can be.
> When that's done, only then resume work on more peripheral features.
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Fri Oct 13 13:58:39 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 19:58:39 +0200
Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <SJ0PR02MB753347D5EBBD0207247ECE66B2D2A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
References: <mailman.1.1696089601.89108.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <B4839189-B0EC-4D3F-AB4B-2C04F0EB0563@uzh.ch>
 <8B04CB3A-EE65-4346-BC42-B5A10E599003@livecode.com>
 <05A7E909-CE87-47A0-B288-ADEB8F18643C@m-r-d.de>
 <EF774AE9-5843-455E-87D7-1A0D50AEEA31@livecode.com>
 <20EC1E2E-1619-4F1D-AA81-0907042C6357@mac.com>
 <252DBA11-1A8B-41E3-93DA-DC2ED08A7274@livecode.com>
 <SJ0PR02MB753347D5EBBD0207247ECE66B2D2A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <9C6A780E-CFD1-41F7-AE6D-623BC6587153@m-r-d.de>

Yes that is definitely the case.

But Bill asked if Apple will "fix that in Sonoma" so his old standalones will still work under Sonoma without building them again with 9.6.10 or 10.0.6. At least that was my understanding. ;) 



> Am 13.10.2023 um 18:32 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Heather, just to be clear, I was under the implression that 9.6.10 and 10.0.6 WAS the fix for this. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> On Behalf Of Heather Laine via use-livecode
> Sent: Friday, October 13, 2023 1:37 AM
> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Cc: Heather Laine <heather at livecode.com>
> Subject: Re: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
> 
> I don't think you can hope for that. It's not a bug, its a change in the way they are implementing menus.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org  Fri Oct 13 14:49:02 2023
From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (William Prothero)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 11:49:02 -0700
Subject: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
In-Reply-To: <d1f9f298-bff7-4108-97e0-3d3efda4bbec@fourthworld.com>
References: <d1f9f298-bff7-4108-97e0-3d3efda4bbec@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <E799CDE3-52E4-4079-B805-8A294830E347@earthlearningsolutions.org>

I second (3rd and 4th too) Richard's plea. Deployment is a killer.
Bill

William A. Prothero, PhD
Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science
University of California, Santa Barbara

> On Oct 13, 2023, at 10:47 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> We see it here in this list. We see it in the forums. We see it wherever app deployment is discussed:
> 
> OS requirements for packaging/stapling/signing apps are onerous.
> 
> At the edge of, and sometimes exceeding, being prohibitively so.
> 
> There's no point in making a standalone if you can't ship it.
> 
> If pro devs with decades of experience struggle with this, newcomers will run screaming.
> 
> SIMPLIFYING DEPLOYMENT IS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY.
> 
> Pardon the all-caps. I rarely use them. But this is important.
> 
> Simplifying deployment is more important than "AI".
> Simplifying deployment is more important than "nocode".
> 
> It is the single biggest pain point.
> 
> And so it is the single biggest opportunity.
> 
> Fulfill the promise of "Everyone can code": focus on simplifying deployment.
> 
> Step 1: Acquire Matthias' great tool.
> 
> Step 2: Enhance it for current requirements across platforms.
> 
> Step 3: Look for every opportunity to further simplify the process, and take it, at least one more simplification with each new build.
> 
> This is important. It really is.
> 
> --
> 
> And no, web export will not magically save things.  Even when that becomes truly production-ready, it's only for web apps.  Not everything needs to be a web app.
> 
> There are a hundred ways to make web apps.
> 
> There are few ways to make cross-platform native apps.
> 
> And almost none that rival what LC can do on the desktop.
> 
> Play into strengths.  Make native deployment the best it can be.
> 
> When that's done, only then resume work on more peripheral features.
> 
> --
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Fri Oct 13 14:59:04 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 19:59:04 +0100
Subject: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
In-Reply-To: <E799CDE3-52E4-4079-B805-8A294830E347@earthlearningsolutions.org>
References: <d1f9f298-bff7-4108-97e0-3d3efda4bbec@fourthworld.com>
 <E799CDE3-52E4-4079-B805-8A294830E347@earthlearningsolutions.org>
Message-ID: <956F1EE0-505D-4128-ABBB-D648A9314F8D@gmail.com>

+1, 

I totally agree this is really important (and really hard to keep up with). But Apple should take some of the responsibility for this. With the resources at their disposal they should be able to create a simpler and easier way to execute deployment without sacrificing security and authenticity. 

Very well said. I should add that I have also been using Kee Nethery’s instructions for signing Mac apps and it has been a godsend. I have not quite yet gotten to the point of deploying to the App Store (with it) but that will be the next step.

Mark


> On 13 Oct 2023, at 7:49 pm, William Prothero via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I second (3rd and 4th too) Richard's plea. Deployment is a killer.
> Bill
> 
> William A. Prothero, PhD
> Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science
> University of California, Santa Barbara
> 
>> On Oct 13, 2023, at 10:47 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> We see it here in this list. We see it in the forums. We see it wherever app deployment is discussed:
>> 
>> OS requirements for packaging/stapling/signing apps are onerous.
>> 
>> At the edge of, and sometimes exceeding, being prohibitively so.
>> 
>> There's no point in making a standalone if you can't ship it.
>> 
>> If pro devs with decades of experience struggle with this, newcomers will run screaming.
>> 
>> SIMPLIFYING DEPLOYMENT IS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY.
>> 
>> Pardon the all-caps. I rarely use them. But this is important.
>> 
>> Simplifying deployment is more important than "AI".
>> Simplifying deployment is more important than "nocode".
>> 
>> It is the single biggest pain point.
>> 
>> And so it is the single biggest opportunity.
>> 
>> Fulfill the promise of "Everyone can code": focus on simplifying deployment.
>> 
>> Step 1: Acquire Matthias' great tool.
>> 
>> Step 2: Enhance it for current requirements across platforms.
>> 
>> Step 3: Look for every opportunity to further simplify the process, and take it, at least one more simplification with each new build.
>> 
>> This is important. It really is.
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> And no, web export will not magically save things.  Even when that becomes truly production-ready, it's only for web apps.  Not everything needs to be a web app.
>> 
>> There are a hundred ways to make web apps.
>> 
>> There are few ways to make cross-platform native apps.
>> 
>> And almost none that rival what LC can do on the desktop.
>> 
>> Play into strengths.  Make native deployment the best it can be.
>> 
>> When that's done, only then resume work on more peripheral features.
>> 
>> --
>> Richard Gaskin
>> Fourth World Systems
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From tom at makeshyft.com  Fri Oct 13 15:14:12 2023
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 15:14:12 -0400
Subject: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
In-Reply-To: <956F1EE0-505D-4128-ABBB-D648A9314F8D@gmail.com>
References: <d1f9f298-bff7-4108-97e0-3d3efda4bbec@fourthworld.com>
 <E799CDE3-52E4-4079-B805-8A294830E347@earthlearningsolutions.org>
 <956F1EE0-505D-4128-ABBB-D648A9314F8D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPzQJLJiL07-tnLUuj93AJ03219ophMBvOe6tUEppKSxxw3v+w@mail.gmail.com>

100% the biggest problem I have in my business.
Have been stuck on iOS for months.
Android and Windows is kind of OK, but still more can be done.
Agree. Would pay for a solution that just works.

On Fri, Oct 13, 2023 at 3:00 PM Mark Smith via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> +1,
>
> I totally agree this is really important (and really hard to keep up
> with). But Apple should take some of the responsibility for this. With the
> resources at their disposal they should be able to create a simpler and
> easier way to execute deployment without sacrificing security and
> authenticity.
>
> Very well said. I should add that I have also been using Kee Nethery’s
> instructions for signing Mac apps and it has been a godsend. I have not
> quite yet gotten to the point of deploying to the App Store (with it) but
> that will be the next step.
>
> Mark
>
>
> > On 13 Oct 2023, at 7:49 pm, William Prothero via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > I second (3rd and 4th too) Richard's plea. Deployment is a killer.
> > Bill
> >
> > William A. Prothero, PhD
> > Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science
> > University of California, Santa Barbara
> >
> >> On Oct 13, 2023, at 10:47 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> We see it here in this list. We see it in the forums. We see it
> wherever app deployment is discussed:
> >>
> >> OS requirements for packaging/stapling/signing apps are onerous.
> >>
> >> At the edge of, and sometimes exceeding, being prohibitively so.
> >>
> >> There's no point in making a standalone if you can't ship it.
> >>
> >> If pro devs with decades of experience struggle with this, newcomers
> will run screaming.
> >>
> >> SIMPLIFYING DEPLOYMENT IS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY.
> >>
> >> Pardon the all-caps. I rarely use them. But this is important.
> >>
> >> Simplifying deployment is more important than "AI".
> >> Simplifying deployment is more important than "nocode".
> >>
> >> It is the single biggest pain point.
> >>
> >> And so it is the single biggest opportunity.
> >>
> >> Fulfill the promise of "Everyone can code": focus on simplifying
> deployment.
> >>
> >> Step 1: Acquire Matthias' great tool.
> >>
> >> Step 2: Enhance it for current requirements across platforms.
> >>
> >> Step 3: Look for every opportunity to further simplify the process, and
> take it, at least one more simplification with each new build.
> >>
> >> This is important. It really is.
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> And no, web export will not magically save things.  Even when that
> becomes truly production-ready, it's only for web apps.  Not everything
> needs to be a web app.
> >>
> >> There are a hundred ways to make web apps.
> >>
> >> There are few ways to make cross-platform native apps.
> >>
> >> And almost none that rival what LC can do on the desktop.
> >>
> >> Play into strengths.  Make native deployment the best it can be.
> >>
> >> When that's done, only then resume work on more peripheral features.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Richard Gaskin
> >> Fourth World Systems
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From dan at clearvisiontech.com  Fri Oct 13 15:58:36 2023
From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 19:58:36 +0000
Subject: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
In-Reply-To: <CAPzQJLJiL07-tnLUuj93AJ03219ophMBvOe6tUEppKSxxw3v+w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d1f9f298-bff7-4108-97e0-3d3efda4bbec@fourthworld.com>
 <E799CDE3-52E4-4079-B805-8A294830E347@earthlearningsolutions.org>
 <956F1EE0-505D-4128-ABBB-D648A9314F8D@gmail.com>
 <CAPzQJLJiL07-tnLUuj93AJ03219ophMBvOe6tUEppKSxxw3v+w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BYAPR12MB27093D2F06C453A6F1B11FF5B9D2A@BYAPR12MB2709.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>

+1

I obviously agree!    I finally got my Mac app uploaded to the Mac Store (and approved)… but what a pain!!!   There are SO many steps that could easily be done by LiveCode that they have chosen to omit.   Simple things like generating the .ipa for iOS (this is a simple command line), having a place to enter the permission strings for Mac Desktop apps (this is a pain because you must build the app, then grab the generated plist, edit it, then include it in your app settings and then build it again.  Not hard, but this is something LC should provide in the Application Settings Window.  On that note, the “LSApplicationCategoryType” key (and category key) is not included in the generated plist.  I had to add it manually.  Apparently, this is now required.   I’m sure the great minds at LC could find a way to sign your app if you have the correct files installed and “fill in the blanks”.  They could probably do justified text too, but I won’t get into that!!  :)

Yes, this is hard to keep up with.  But isn’t that the whole point of a product like LiveCode?  The product is supposed to do the dirty work for you.

Although usually at the last second… LC is pretty good when it comes to keeping up with requirements with Apple and Android when the problem causes you to not be able to submit to the app stores or OS incompatibilities.  But in the case of the above examples, there are workarounds.  So, you are on your own.

-Dan


From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> on behalf of Tom Glod via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Date: Friday, October 13, 2023 at 12:15 PM
To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Cc: Tom Glod <tom at makeshyft.com>
Subject: Re: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
100% the biggest problem I have in my business.
Have been stuck on iOS for months.
Android and Windows is kind of OK, but still more can be done.
Agree. Would pay for a solution that just works.

On Fri, Oct 13, 2023 at 3:00 PM Mark Smith via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> +1,
>
> I totally agree this is really important (and really hard to keep up
> with). But Apple should take some of the responsibility for this. With the
> resources at their disposal they should be able to create a simpler and
> easier way to execute deployment without sacrificing security and
> authenticity.
>
> Very well said. I should add that I have also been using Kee Nethery’s
> instructions for signing Mac apps and it has been a godsend. I have not
> quite yet gotten to the point of deploying to the App Store (with it) but
> that will be the next step.
>
> Mark
>
>
> > On 13 Oct 2023, at 7:49 pm, William Prothero via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > I second (3rd and 4th too) Richard's plea. Deployment is a killer.
> > Bill
> >
> > William A. Prothero, PhD
> > Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science
> > University of California, Santa Barbara
> >
> >> On Oct 13, 2023, at 10:47 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> We see it here in this list. We see it in the forums. We see it
> wherever app deployment is discussed:
> >>
> >> OS requirements for packaging/stapling/signing apps are onerous.
> >>
> >> At the edge of, and sometimes exceeding, being prohibitively so.
> >>
> >> There's no point in making a standalone if you can't ship it.
> >>
> >> If pro devs with decades of experience struggle with this, newcomers
> will run screaming.
> >>
> >> SIMPLIFYING DEPLOYMENT IS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY.
> >>
> >> Pardon the all-caps. I rarely use them. But this is important.
> >>
> >> Simplifying deployment is more important than "AI".
> >> Simplifying deployment is more important than "nocode".
> >>
> >> It is the single biggest pain point.
> >>
> >> And so it is the single biggest opportunity.
> >>
> >> Fulfill the promise of "Everyone can code": focus on simplifying
> deployment.
> >>
> >> Step 1: Acquire Matthias' great tool.
> >>
> >> Step 2: Enhance it for current requirements across platforms.
> >>
> >> Step 3: Look for every opportunity to further simplify the process, and
> take it, at least one more simplification with each new build.
> >>
> >> This is important. It really is.
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> And no, web export will not magically save things.  Even when that
> becomes truly production-ready, it's only for web apps.  Not everything
> needs to be a web app.
> >>
> >> There are a hundred ways to make web apps.
> >>
> >> There are few ways to make cross-platform native apps.
> >>
> >> And almost none that rival what LC can do on the desktop.
> >>
> >> Play into strengths.  Make native deployment the best it can be.
> >>
> >> When that's done, only then resume work on more peripheral features.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Richard Gaskin
> >> Fourth World Systems
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

From paul at researchware.com  Fri Oct 13 16:01:31 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 16:01:31 -0400
Subject: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
In-Reply-To: <d1f9f298-bff7-4108-97e0-3d3efda4bbec@fourthworld.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB753347D5EBBD0207247ECE66B2D2A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <d1f9f298-bff7-4108-97e0-3d3efda4bbec@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <d2c606a5-fdec-2dab-c166-3d9d0fcd1ed6@researchware.com>

I'd love to see versions of Livecode stacks that assist with code 
signing and notarization for as many platforms as possible (I am aware 
of stacks for Windows and macOS) built into Livecode.

That said, for my two major problems (1 on macOS and 1 on Windows), I 
don't think there is anything Livecode could have done to help (other 
than lessons/documentation).

On Windows my current certificate - a .pfx format code signing cert - is 
expiring in November, so I renewed it. However, as of June 1 2023, the 
Windows code signing industry moved to requiring all code signing 
certificates to be issued on an encrypted USB token and you must use 
specialized software (that 3rd party can not hook into to prevent 
malware) to access those tokens to code sign.

On macOS, I needed to update code signing and NOTARIZATION to 
accommodate that Apple is switching to a new notary tool that only rns 
on new versions of macOS (I was using Mojave and atool) so I HAD (forced 
by Apple) for update to using the macBook Air I have that happened to 
have Sonoma on it and than meant Xcode 15 command line tools for the new 
Notary tool. atool stops being accepted by Apple some time in November 
so my old notarization steps will stop working. The change in notary 
tool was easy with Matthias's lessons and documentation on livecode.com. 
The problem was getting my Apple code signing certificates AND related 
certificates on to the MacBook air from the Apple Developer site, 
something I don't think Livecode can really help with.

Yes, others have had still other issues some of which improvements in 
Livecode might help address, but for the two I ran into that I turned to 
the list for help for, they were ultimately nothing that I think 
Livecode could help with.

Just my 2 cents on my 2 issues.


On 10/13/2023 1:46 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
> We see it here in this list. We see it in the forums. We see it 
> wherever app deployment is discussed:
>
> OS requirements for packaging/stapling/signing apps are onerous.
>
> At the edge of, and sometimes exceeding, being prohibitively so.
>
> There's no point in making a standalone if you can't ship it.
>
> If pro devs with decades of experience struggle with this, newcomers 
> will run screaming.
>
> SIMPLIFYING DEPLOYMENT IS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY.
>
> Pardon the all-caps. I rarely use them. But this is important.
>
> Simplifying deployment is more important than "AI".
> Simplifying deployment is more important than "nocode".
>
> It is the single biggest pain point.
>
> And so it is the single biggest opportunity.
>
> Fulfill the promise of "Everyone can code": focus on simplifying 
> deployment.
>
> Step 1: Acquire Matthias' great tool.
>
> Step 2: Enhance it for current requirements across platforms.
>
> Step 3: Look for every opportunity to further simplify the process, 
> and take it, at least one more simplification with each new build.
>
> This is important. It really is.
>
> -- 
>
> And no, web export will not magically save things.  Even when that 
> becomes truly production-ready, it's only for web apps.  Not 
> everything needs to be a web app.
>
> There are a hundred ways to make web apps.
>
> There are few ways to make cross-platform native apps.
>
> And almost none that rival what LC can do on the desktop.
>
> Play into strengths.  Make native deployment the best it can be.
>
> When that's done, only then resume work on more peripheral features.
>



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Oct 13 16:34:03 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 15:34:03 -0500
Subject: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
In-Reply-To: <d1f9f298-bff7-4108-97e0-3d3efda4bbec@fourthworld.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB753347D5EBBD0207247ECE66B2D2A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <d1f9f298-bff7-4108-97e0-3d3efda4bbec@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <613a9115-ba87-4fd7-a42f-7995d0a6c6fb@hyperactivesw.com>

On 10/13/23 12:46 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
> If pro devs with decades of experience struggle with this, newcomers will run screaming.

I agree. But as a "pro" dev I'm embarrassed to admit that the problem I was having was of my 
own doing. Matthias' Helper tool is invaluable and I couldn't understand why it always worked 
before but didn't now. He took a look and found the problem. Actually, I had two problems, none 
of which LC could have solved.

Problem 1: I was using a certificate for the wrong app. I wish I'd known what "no identity 
found" meant. I could have fixed it.

Problem 2: (Stupid, stupid, stupid) I uploaded my app to Google Drive for download and forgot 
to zip it. Matthias found that it was corrupted when he tried to help (bless you, Matthias.) I 
have known forever that uncompressed files don't travel well but we had customers running 
Sonoma who were flooding the tech queue, and in the rush to get the thing out I forgot. And 
since I could run the original build on my own Mac, I couldn't figure out why no one else could 
open it.

That said, it would be great if LC could create an .ipa for iOS and provide 
notarization/stapling services for Mac apps. It's a start. But honestly, that would only be of 
marginal help. The certificates, profiles, keystores, etc. can only be created by the 
developer, and that's mostly where the headaches begin.

I used to be an enthusiastic Apple advocate but now I'm not so sure. Once you've seen the 
developer side your perceptions change. Google is only marginally easier these days too. I 
understand the security reasons for all the hassle, but that doesn't help when you're in the 
middle of it.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Oct 13 17:02:56 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 21:02:56 +0000
Subject: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
In-Reply-To: <31F57AB1-44B9-4E7E-8F5C-8297C373F4C7@major-k.de>
References: <SJ0PR02MB753347D5EBBD0207247ECE66B2D2A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <d1f9f298-bff7-4108-97e0-3d3efda4bbec@fourthworld.com>
 <31F57AB1-44B9-4E7E-8F5C-8297C373F4C7@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <SJ0PR02MB7533D5ACF0D23158336E77C5B2D2A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>

Don't know why I didn't see Richard's post in my email, but +1 too. 

Bob S

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> On Behalf Of Klaus major-k via use-livecode
Sent: Friday, October 13, 2023 10:53 AM
To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Cc: Klaus major-k <klaus at major-k.de>
Subject: Re: Deployment: a plea/opportunity

Bravo, Richard, you are so right, bravo!

> Am 13.10.2023 um 19:46 schrieb Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> We see it here in this list. We see it in the forums. We see it wherever app deployment is discussed:
> OS requirements for packaging/stapling/signing apps are onerous.
> At the edge of, and sometimes exceeding, being prohibitively so.
> There's no point in making a standalone if you can't ship it.
> If pro devs with decades of experience struggle with this, newcomers will run screaming.
> SIMPLIFYING DEPLOYMENT IS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY.
> Pardon the all-caps. I rarely use them. But this is important.
> Simplifying deployment is more important than "AI".
> Simplifying deployment is more important than "nocode".
> It is the single biggest pain point.
> And so it is the single biggest opportunity.
> Fulfill the promise of "Everyone can code": focus on simplifying deployment.
> Step 1: Acquire Matthias' great tool.
> Step 2: Enhance it for current requirements across platforms.
> Step 3: Look for every opportunity to further simplify the process, and take it, at least one more simplification with each new build.
> This is important. It really is.
> --
> And no, web export will not magically save things.  Even when that becomes truly production-ready, it's only for web apps.  Not everything needs to be a web app.
> There are a hundred ways to make web apps.
> There are few ways to make cross-platform native apps.
> And almost none that rival what LC can do on the desktop.
> Play into strengths.  Make native deployment the best it can be.
> When that's done, only then resume work on more peripheral features.
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de


_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Sat Oct 14 00:52:28 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2023 05:52:28 +0100
Subject: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
In-Reply-To: <d2c606a5-fdec-2dab-c166-3d9d0fcd1ed6@researchware.com>
References: <d2c606a5-fdec-2dab-c166-3d9d0fcd1ed6@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <2EB72C77-4091-4AB4-A248-DFE1CF84F091@gmail.com>

Re: The problem was getting my Apple code signing certificates AND related certificates on to the MacBook air from the Apple Developer site, something I don't think Livecode can really help with.

Paul, just so I understand this problem better. Is there a reason why you can’t just download your certificates from the Apple Developer site to your MacBook Air? Do they specifically restrict downloading to only certain devices? 

Mark

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 13, 2023, at 9:02 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I'd love to see versions of Livecode stacks that assist with code signing and notarization for as many platforms as possible (I am aware of stacks for Windows and macOS) built into Livecode.
> 
> That said, for my two major problems (1 on macOS and 1 on Windows), I don't think there is anything Livecode could have done to help (other than lessons/documentation).
> 
> On Windows my current certificate - a .pfx format code signing cert - is expiring in November, so I renewed it. However, as of June 1 2023, the Windows code signing industry moved to requiring all code signing certificates to be issued on an encrypted USB token and you must use specialized software (that 3rd party can not hook into to prevent malware) to access those tokens to code sign.
> 
> On macOS, I needed to update code signing and NOTARIZATION to accommodate that Apple is switching to a new notary tool that only rns on new versions of macOS (I was using Mojave and atool) so I HAD (forced by Apple) for update to using the macBook Air I have that happened to have Sonoma on it and than meant Xcode 15 command line tools for the new Notary tool. atool stops being accepted by Apple some time in November so my old notarization steps will stop working. The change in notary tool was easy with Matthias's lessons and documentation on livecode.com. The problem was getting my Apple code signing certificates AND related certificates on to the MacBook air from the Apple Developer site, something I don't think Livecode can really help with.
> 
> Yes, others have had still other issues some of which improvements in Livecode might help address, but for the two I ran into that I turned to the list for help for, they were ultimately nothing that I think Livecode could help with.
> 
> Just my 2 cents on my 2 issues.
> 
> 
>> On 10/13/2023 1:46 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
>> We see it here in this list. We see it in the forums. We see it wherever app deployment is discussed:
>> 
>> OS requirements for packaging/stapling/signing apps are onerous.
>> 
>> At the edge of, and sometimes exceeding, being prohibitively so.
>> 
>> There's no point in making a standalone if you can't ship it.
>> 
>> If pro devs with decades of experience struggle with this, newcomers will run screaming.
>> 
>> SIMPLIFYING DEPLOYMENT IS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY.
>> 
>> Pardon the all-caps. I rarely use them. But this is important.
>> 
>> Simplifying deployment is more important than "AI".
>> Simplifying deployment is more important than "nocode".
>> 
>> It is the single biggest pain point.
>> 
>> And so it is the single biggest opportunity.
>> 
>> Fulfill the promise of "Everyone can code": focus on simplifying deployment.
>> 
>> Step 1: Acquire Matthias' great tool.
>> 
>> Step 2: Enhance it for current requirements across platforms.
>> 
>> Step 3: Look for every opportunity to further simplify the process, and take it, at least one more simplification with each new build.
>> 
>> This is important. It really is.
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> And no, web export will not magically save things.  Even when that becomes truly production-ready, it's only for web apps.  Not everything needs to be a web app.
>> 
>> There are a hundred ways to make web apps.
>> 
>> There are few ways to make cross-platform native apps.
>> 
>> And almost none that rival what LC can do on the desktop.
>> 
>> Play into strengths.  Make native deployment the best it can be.
>> 
>> When that's done, only then resume work on more peripheral features.
>> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat Oct 14 12:16:22 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2023 11:16:22 -0500
Subject: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
In-Reply-To: <2EB72C77-4091-4AB4-A248-DFE1CF84F091@gmail.com>
References: <d2c606a5-fdec-2dab-c166-3d9d0fcd1ed6@researchware.com>
 <2EB72C77-4091-4AB4-A248-DFE1CF84F091@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <18b2ef973f0.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

The certificate is locked to a particular machine. You can either export it 
from Keychain or create a new one. To create the certificate, the Mac must 
submit a signing request, which I assume identifies the machine.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On October 13, 2023 11:54:39 PM Mark Smith via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Re: The problem was getting my Apple code signing certificates AND related 
> certificates on to the MacBook air from the Apple Developer site, something 
> I don't think Livecode can really help with.
>
> Paul, just so I understand this problem better. Is there a reason why you 
> cant just download your certificates from the Apple Developer site to your 
> MacBook Air? Do they specifically restrict downloading to only certain devices?
>
> Mark
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Oct 13, 2023, at 9:02 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> I'd love to see versions of Livecode stacks that assist with code signing 
>> and notarization for as many platforms as possible (I am aware of stacks 
>> for Windows and macOS) built into Livecode.
>>
>> That said, for my two major problems (1 on macOS and 1 on Windows), I don't 
>> think there is anything Livecode could have done to help (other than 
>> lessons/documentation).
>>
>> On Windows my current certificate - a .pfx format code signing cert - is 
>> expiring in November, so I renewed it. However, as of June 1 2023, the 
>> Windows code signing industry moved to requiring all code signing 
>> certificates to be issued on an encrypted USB token and you must use 
>> specialized software (that 3rd party can not hook into to prevent malware) 
>> to access those tokens to code sign.
>>
>> On macOS, I needed to update code signing and NOTARIZATION to accommodate 
>> that Apple is switching to a new notary tool that only rns on new versions 
>> of macOS (I was using Mojave and atool) so I HAD (forced by Apple) for 
>> update to using the macBook Air I have that happened to have Sonoma on it 
>> and than meant Xcode 15 command line tools for the new Notary tool. atool 
>> stops being accepted by Apple some time in November so my old notarization 
>> steps will stop working. The change in notary tool was easy with Matthias's 
>> lessons and documentation on livecode.com. The problem was getting my Apple 
>> code signing certificates AND related certificates on to the MacBook air 
>> from the Apple Developer site, something I don't think Livecode can really 
>> help with.
>>
>> Yes, others have had still other issues some of which improvements in 
>> Livecode might help address, but for the two I ran into that I turned to 
>> the list for help for, they were ultimately nothing that I think Livecode 
>> could help with.
>>
>> Just my 2 cents on my 2 issues.
>>
>>
>>> On 10/13/2023 1:46 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
>>> We see it here in this list. We see it in the forums. We see it wherever 
>>> app deployment is discussed:
>>>
>>> OS requirements for packaging/stapling/signing apps are onerous.
>>>
>>> At the edge of, and sometimes exceeding, being prohibitively so.
>>>
>>> There's no point in making a standalone if you can't ship it.
>>>
>>> If pro devs with decades of experience struggle with this, newcomers will 
>>> run screaming.
>>>
>>> SIMPLIFYING DEPLOYMENT IS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY.
>>>
>>> Pardon the all-caps. I rarely use them. But this is important.
>>>
>>> Simplifying deployment is more important than "AI".
>>> Simplifying deployment is more important than "nocode".
>>>
>>> It is the single biggest pain point.
>>>
>>> And so it is the single biggest opportunity.
>>>
>>> Fulfill the promise of "Everyone can code": focus on simplifying deployment.
>>>
>>> Step 1: Acquire Matthias' great tool.
>>>
>>> Step 2: Enhance it for current requirements across platforms.
>>>
>>> Step 3: Look for every opportunity to further simplify the process, and 
>>> take it, at least one more simplification with each new build.
>>>
>>> This is important. It really is.
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> And no, web export will not magically save things.  Even when that becomes 
>>> truly production-ready, it's only for web apps.  Not everything needs to be 
>>> a web app.
>>>
>>> There are a hundred ways to make web apps.
>>>
>>> There are few ways to make cross-platform native apps.
>>>
>>> And almost none that rival what LC can do on the desktop.
>>>
>>> Play into strengths.  Make native deployment the best it can be.
>>>
>>> When that's done, only then resume work on more peripheral features.
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From paul at researchware.com  Sat Oct 14 13:15:32 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2023 13:15:32 -0400
Subject: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
In-Reply-To: <2EB72C77-4091-4AB4-A248-DFE1CF84F091@gmail.com>
References: <d2c606a5-fdec-2dab-c166-3d9d0fcd1ed6@researchware.com>
 <2EB72C77-4091-4AB4-A248-DFE1CF84F091@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e1c29fa2-84d3-87f0-1551-dd25734782b6@researchware.com>

On 10/14/2023 12:52 AM, Mark Smith wrote:
> Paul, just so I understand this problem better. Is there a reason why you cant just download your certificates from the Apple Developer site to your MacBook Air? Do they specifically restrict downloading to only certain devices?

If you download from the Apple Developer site, apparently only the 
public key part of teh cert is downloaded. The private key, created on 
the machine you did a Code SIgning Request on is on that machine and not 
the Apple Developer site, which is why you need to either export and 
import between macs or generate a new certificate.

Panos answered this is another thread I started on this USE-LIST.


From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Sat Oct 14 15:41:43 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2023 20:41:43 +0100
Subject: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
In-Reply-To: <18b2ef973f0.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <d2c606a5-fdec-2dab-c166-3d9d0fcd1ed6@researchware.com>
 <2EB72C77-4091-4AB4-A248-DFE1CF84F091@gmail.com>
 <18b2ef973f0.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <070F7A6A-FECC-4AA8-8B90-EE2C25360993@gmail.com>

Ah, that makes sense. Thanks Jacque

> On 14 Oct 2023, at 5:16 pm, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> The certificate is locked to a particular machine. You can either export it from Keychain or create a new one. To create the certificate, the Mac must submit a signing request, which I assume identifies the machine.
> --


From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Sat Oct 14 15:42:38 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2023 20:42:38 +0100
Subject: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
In-Reply-To: <e1c29fa2-84d3-87f0-1551-dd25734782b6@researchware.com>
References: <d2c606a5-fdec-2dab-c166-3d9d0fcd1ed6@researchware.com>
 <2EB72C77-4091-4AB4-A248-DFE1CF84F091@gmail.com>
 <e1c29fa2-84d3-87f0-1551-dd25734782b6@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <33D95C6B-0B51-4F65-B805-027D2B5C76A5@gmail.com>

Perfect. I am sure I knew that at one point but had forgotten. Thank you for the reminder.

Mark


> On 14 Oct 2023, at 6:15 pm, Paul Dupuis <paul at researchware.com> wrote:
> 
> On 10/14/2023 12:52 AM, Mark Smith wrote:
>> Paul, just so I understand this problem better. Is there a reason why you can’t just download your certificates from the Apple Developer site to your MacBook Air? Do they specifically restrict downloading to only certain devices?
> 
> If you download from the Apple Developer site, apparently only the public key part of teh cert is downloaded. The private key, created on the machine you did a Code SIgning Request on is on that machine and not the Apple Developer site, which is why you need to either export and import between macs or generate a new certificate.
> 
> Panos answered this is another thread I started on this USE-LIST.



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Sat Oct 14 19:12:33 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2023 01:12:33 +0200
Subject: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
In-Reply-To: <2EB72C77-4091-4AB4-A248-DFE1CF84F091@gmail.com>
References: <d2c606a5-fdec-2dab-c166-3d9d0fcd1ed6@researchware.com>
 <2EB72C77-4091-4AB4-A248-DFE1CF84F091@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B2D68E4C-007A-4A44-AA79-3B36DAC235FD@m-r-d.de>

Hi all,

there is a way to export a Apple ID account including developer certificates and provisioning profiles at once using Xcode.
See here
https://dl.qck.nu/?dl=Transfer-Copy_Developer_Account_to_a_new_computer.pdf

Regards,
Matthias



> Am 14.10.2023 um 06:52 schrieb Mark Smith via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Re: The problem was getting my Apple code signing certificates AND related certificates on to the MacBook air from the Apple Developer site, something I don't think Livecode can really help with.
> 
> Paul, just so I understand this problem better. Is there a reason why you can’t just download your certificates from the Apple Developer site to your MacBook Air? Do they specifically restrict downloading to only certain devices? 
> 
> Mark
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 13, 2023, at 9:02 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I'd love to see versions of Livecode stacks that assist with code signing and notarization for as many platforms as possible (I am aware of stacks for Windows and macOS) built into Livecode.
>> 
>> That said, for my two major problems (1 on macOS and 1 on Windows), I don't think there is anything Livecode could have done to help (other than lessons/documentation).
>> 
>> On Windows my current certificate - a .pfx format code signing cert - is expiring in November, so I renewed it. However, as of June 1 2023, the Windows code signing industry moved to requiring all code signing certificates to be issued on an encrypted USB token and you must use specialized software (that 3rd party can not hook into to prevent malware) to access those tokens to code sign.
>> 
>> On macOS, I needed to update code signing and NOTARIZATION to accommodate that Apple is switching to a new notary tool that only rns on new versions of macOS (I was using Mojave and atool) so I HAD (forced by Apple) for update to using the macBook Air I have that happened to have Sonoma on it and than meant Xcode 15 command line tools for the new Notary tool. atool stops being accepted by Apple some time in November so my old notarization steps will stop working. The change in notary tool was easy with Matthias's lessons and documentation on livecode.com. The problem was getting my Apple code signing certificates AND related certificates on to the MacBook air from the Apple Developer site, something I don't think Livecode can really help with.
>> 
>> Yes, others have had still other issues some of which improvements in Livecode might help address, but for the two I ran into that I turned to the list for help for, they were ultimately nothing that I think Livecode could help with.
>> 
>> Just my 2 cents on my 2 issues.
>> 
>> 
>>> On 10/13/2023 1:46 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
>>> We see it here in this list. We see it in the forums. We see it wherever app deployment is discussed:
>>> 
>>> OS requirements for packaging/stapling/signing apps are onerous.
>>> 
>>> At the edge of, and sometimes exceeding, being prohibitively so.
>>> 
>>> There's no point in making a standalone if you can't ship it.
>>> 
>>> If pro devs with decades of experience struggle with this, newcomers will run screaming.
>>> 
>>> SIMPLIFYING DEPLOYMENT IS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY.
>>> 
>>> Pardon the all-caps. I rarely use them. But this is important.
>>> 
>>> Simplifying deployment is more important than "AI".
>>> Simplifying deployment is more important than "nocode".
>>> 
>>> It is the single biggest pain point.
>>> 
>>> And so it is the single biggest opportunity.
>>> 
>>> Fulfill the promise of "Everyone can code": focus on simplifying deployment.
>>> 
>>> Step 1: Acquire Matthias' great tool.
>>> 
>>> Step 2: Enhance it for current requirements across platforms.
>>> 
>>> Step 3: Look for every opportunity to further simplify the process, and take it, at least one more simplification with each new build.
>>> 
>>> This is important. It really is.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> 
>>> And no, web export will not magically save things.  Even when that becomes truly production-ready, it's only for web apps.  Not everything needs to be a web app.
>>> 
>>> There are a hundred ways to make web apps.
>>> 
>>> There are few ways to make cross-platform native apps.
>>> 
>>> And almost none that rival what LC can do on the desktop.
>>> 
>>> Play into strengths.  Make native deployment the best it can be.
>>> 
>>> When that's done, only then resume work on more peripheral features.
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From paul at researchware.com  Sat Oct 14 19:55:27 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2023 19:55:27 -0400
Subject: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
In-Reply-To: <B2D68E4C-007A-4A44-AA79-3B36DAC235FD@m-r-d.de>
References: <d2c606a5-fdec-2dab-c166-3d9d0fcd1ed6@researchware.com>
 <2EB72C77-4091-4AB4-A248-DFE1CF84F091@gmail.com>
 <B2D68E4C-007A-4A44-AA79-3B36DAC235FD@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <a5e90995-306b-7640-7566-bb3c9efa4f20@researchware.com>

On 10/14/2023 7:12 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> there is a way to export a Apple ID account including developer certificates and provisioning profiles at once using Xcode.
> See here
> https://dl.qck.nu/?dl=Transfer-Copy_Developer_Account_to_a_new_computer.pdf
>
> Regards,
> Matthias

So for some time, I have only downloaded the "command Line Tools for 
XCode n.n" rather than the full Xcode install for two reasons: (1) To 
date, I thought I only needed the command line tools for code signing 
and notarization/stapling; and (2) to sage a couple GB of space

The above is the first reason I have seen, if you are only developing 
with Livecode, to download the full Xcode install.

Thank you.




From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Sun Oct 15 15:23:42 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2023 20:23:42 +0100
Subject: Universal buttons: bugs or feature
Message-ID: <A9780204-4439-4CD1-B5E6-31E254BCF984@gmail.com>

Hello all,

Recently I decided to try out a number of different button styles to see which ones I liked best, and I ran across some odd behaviour with “Universal” buttons. First, there does not appear to be any style difference between an enabled universal button and a disabled one. With all other button styles there is a noticeable difference between the enabled and disabled versions. More importantly (perhaps) with all other button types if you depress the mouse over the button then move the mouse off the button and release it it does not fire the button. With universal buttons if you move a depressed mouse off the button and then release it the button fires. And this behaviour does not appear to conform to Apple’s user interface guidelines "The mousedown event is fired at an Element when a pointing device button is pressed while the pointer is inside the element.” 

Are these differences in the Universal button deliberate features or bugs? If features, why so? 

Thanks
Mark



From paul at researchware.com  Sun Oct 15 16:59:00 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2023 16:59:00 -0400
Subject: Another macOS Codesigning/Notarization issue
Message-ID: <1b4cf0ce-8527-6c4c-46bc-29e5d449ae07@researchware.com>

Help,

I am trying to switch Notarization tools for the Apple November 
deadline. I was using macOS Mojave with Xcode 10.2.1 and not (to use the 
new mandated Notary tool) have to move to Sonoma with Xcode 15.0.0.

I have signed, notarized, and stapled (all responses returned were what 
the lessons at Livecode.com by Matthias said they should be) a Livecode 
9.6.10 Standalone using my Mojave system (the old tool) and it works on 
Sonoma and Mojave

I have signed, notarized, and stapled (all responses were as the lesson 
said they should be) a Livecode 9.6.10 Standalone using my Sonoma system 
(the new tool) and I get  an error trying to run it on Sonoma. It runs 
under Mojave (although the first time the cursor spins a lot and it 
takes a while to start)

The error is an extraordinary helpful dialog with a smiling macOS icon 
that say 'The application "<appname>" can't be opened." and an OK button.

I though for a bit that it was that I was still building for Intel and 
the Sonoma is a M1 macBook Air, so I changed the Standalone settings and 
redid everything (again all seemed okay) and the GetInfo says Universal 
(where it said Intel before) but I get the same message.

AGAIN, the old Notarization procedure produces an notarized (and 
stapled) app (that is actually just Intel) that runs without error on 
Sonoma on M1 MacBook Air and Mojave on Intel Powerbook, but the new one, 
from the lessons for Xcode 13+ produced the error above and my app will 
not run.

Security is set to allow App Store and Identified Developers.

Unless I figure this out, I will not be able to make new version of our 
macOS app after November 1. Has anyone else experienced this? Has any 
one see this message?




From rabit at revigniter.com  Sun Oct 15 17:46:31 2023
From: rabit at revigniter.com (Ralf Bitter)
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2023 23:46:31 +0200
Subject: Universal buttons: bugs or feature
In-Reply-To: <A9780204-4439-4CD1-B5E6-31E254BCF984@gmail.com>
References: <A9780204-4439-4CD1-B5E6-31E254BCF984@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3e10df1e-5bac-8362-c33d-6eaac5382d10@revigniter.com>

Neither, it is quite simply sloppiness. Sorry for that,
will look into it.


Ralf


On 15.10.2023 21:23, Mark Smith via use-livecode wrote:
> Are these differences in the Universal button deliberate features or bugs? If features, why so?



From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Mon Oct 16 03:14:24 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2023 08:14:24 +0100
Subject: Universal buttons: bugs or feature
In-Reply-To: <3e10df1e-5bac-8362-c33d-6eaac5382d10@revigniter.com>
References: <3e10df1e-5bac-8362-c33d-6eaac5382d10@revigniter.com>
Message-ID: <FC880F0F-A1BC-4511-AEA0-7DDB30DFE324@gmail.com>

Thanks Ralf. I quite like the look of the Universal button myself. Since its a widget, if you come up with a revision and want it tested I’d be happy try it in my current project.

Best,
Mark


Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 15, 2023, at 10:46 PM, Ralf Bitter via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Neither, it is quite simply sloppiness. Sorry for that,
> will look into it.
> 
> 
> Ralf
> 
> 
>> On 15.10.2023 21:23, Mark Smith via use-livecode wrote:
>> Are these differences in the Universal button deliberate features or bugs? If features, why so?
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From heather at livecode.com  Mon Oct 16 06:31:10 2023
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2023 11:31:10 +0100
Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <9C6A780E-CFD1-41F7-AE6D-623BC6587153@m-r-d.de>
References: <mailman.1.1696089601.89108.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <B4839189-B0EC-4D3F-AB4B-2C04F0EB0563@uzh.ch>
 <8B04CB3A-EE65-4346-BC42-B5A10E599003@livecode.com>
 <05A7E909-CE87-47A0-B288-ADEB8F18643C@m-r-d.de>
 <EF774AE9-5843-455E-87D7-1A0D50AEEA31@livecode.com>
 <20EC1E2E-1619-4F1D-AA81-0907042C6357@mac.com>
 <252DBA11-1A8B-41E3-93DA-DC2ED08A7274@livecode.com>
 <SJ0PR02MB753347D5EBBD0207247ECE66B2D2A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <9C6A780E-CFD1-41F7-AE6D-623BC6587153@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <FDC45705-7594-4294-9851-564E60F2031F@livecode.com>

Yes, that was the question I was answering.

Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 13 Oct 2023, at 18:58, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Yes that is definitely the case.
> 
> But Bill asked if Apple will "fix that in Sonoma" so his old standalones will still work under Sonoma without building them again with 9.6.10 or 10.0.6. At least that was my understanding. ;) 
> 
> 
> 
>> Am 13.10.2023 um 18:32 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Heather, just to be clear, I was under the implression that 9.6.10 and 10.0.6 WAS the fix for this. 
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> On Behalf Of Heather Laine via use-livecode
>> Sent: Friday, October 13, 2023 1:37 AM
>> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
>> Cc: Heather Laine <heather at livecode.com>
>> Subject: Re: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
>> 
>> I don't think you can hope for that. It's not a bug, its a change in the way they are implementing menus.
>> 
>> Best Regards,
>> 
>> Heather
>> 
>> Heather Laine
>> Customer Services Manager
>> LiveCode Ltd
>> www.livecode.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Oct 16 13:10:45 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2023 12:10:45 -0500
Subject: Another macOS Codesigning/Notarization issue
In-Reply-To: <1b4cf0ce-8527-6c4c-46bc-29e5d449ae07@researchware.com>
References: <1b4cf0ce-8527-6c4c-46bc-29e5d449ae07@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <18b3977f608.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

The uninformative error dialog is what I got when the app was corrupted but 
I doubt that's the problem for yours. But if code signing is the issue you 
usually get a different dialog with a reason.

Have you tried Matthias' helper tool? Once I fixed my app it worked 
perfectly. You can download it from the link at the top of the lesson page, 
the one for Xcode 13+. t does use notarytool.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On October 15, 2023 4:01:05 PM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Help,
>
> I am trying to switch Notarization tools for the Apple November
> deadline. I was using macOS Mojave with Xcode 10.2.1 and not (to use the
> new mandated Notary tool) have to move to Sonoma with Xcode 15.0.0.
>
> I have signed, notarized, and stapled (all responses returned were what
> the lessons at Livecode.com by Matthias said they should be) a Livecode
> 9.6.10 Standalone using my Mojave system (the old tool) and it works on
> Sonoma and Mojave
>
> I have signed, notarized, and stapled (all responses were as the lesson
> said they should be) a Livecode 9.6.10 Standalone using my Sonoma system
> (the new tool) and I get  an error trying to run it on Sonoma. It runs
> under Mojave (although the first time the cursor spins a lot and it
> takes a while to start)
>
> The error is an extraordinary helpful dialog with a smiling macOS icon
> that say 'The application "<appname>" can't be opened." and an OK button.
>
> I though for a bit that it was that I was still building for Intel and
> the Sonoma is a M1 macBook Air, so I changed the Standalone settings and
> redid everything (again all seemed okay) and the GetInfo says Universal
> (where it said Intel before) but I get the same message.
>
> AGAIN, the old Notarization procedure produces an notarized (and
> stapled) app (that is actually just Intel) that runs without error on
> Sonoma on M1 MacBook Air and Mojave on Intel Powerbook, but the new one,
> from the lessons for Xcode 13+ produced the error above and my app will
> not run.
>
> Security is set to allow App Store and Identified Developers.
>
> Unless I figure this out, I will not be able to make new version of our
> macOS app after November 1. Has anyone else experienced this? Has any
> one see this message?
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au  Mon Oct 16 19:19:40 2023
From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2023 10:19:40 +1100
Subject: arrayToJSON on lc server
Message-ID: <F6C9FD71-71BA-4A02-9CBA-AA7F81E03E43@optusnet.com.au>

I am having a problem with the function arrayToJSON on LC Server 9.6.10  pro (Linux host) (I couldn't get it to work on earlier versions either)

I get the error

Function: error in function handler (arrayToJSON)
The mergJSON.so file is in the Externals folder, which resides in the same directory as livecode-server. Since revdb calls work, which I assume use the revdb.so library, evidently Externals are loading, and permissions for mergJSON.so are the same as for revdb.so.

This is supposed to work out of the box, so I must be missing something obvious.

BTW, the call "the externalFunctions of this stack" return empty - is that correct, should it not return the functions available in the Externals .so libraries?

Neville Smythe





From kee.nethery at elloco.com  Mon Oct 16 20:49:01 2023
From: kee.nethery at elloco.com (kee nethery)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2023 17:49:01 -0700
Subject: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
In-Reply-To: <31F57AB1-44B9-4E7E-8F5C-8297C373F4C7@major-k.de>
References: <SJ0PR02MB753347D5EBBD0207247ECE66B2D2A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <d1f9f298-bff7-4108-97e0-3d3efda4bbec@fourthworld.com>
 <31F57AB1-44B9-4E7E-8F5C-8297C373F4C7@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <DE3F92A4-8670-4B15-B34F-E6F4ACDC6310@elloco.com>

I’ve stopped development of my Mac app because LiveCode does not support in-app purchases (ie, allowing me to get paid) and the deployment hassle is just not worth it for an app that has no way to make money.

There is NO REASON for each developer to painfully figure out how to deploy apps when LiveCode could do it for everyone.

Kee Nethery

> On Oct 13, 2023, at 10:52 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Bravo, Richard, you are so right, bravo!
> 
>> Am 13.10.2023 um 19:46 schrieb Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> We see it here in this list. We see it in the forums. We see it wherever app deployment is discussed:
>> OS requirements for packaging/stapling/signing apps are onerous.
>> At the edge of, and sometimes exceeding, being prohibitively so.
>> There's no point in making a standalone if you can't ship it.
>> If pro devs with decades of experience struggle with this, newcomers will run screaming.
>> SIMPLIFYING DEPLOYMENT IS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY.
>> Pardon the all-caps. I rarely use them. But this is important.
>> Simplifying deployment is more important than "AI".
>> Simplifying deployment is more important than "nocode".
>> It is the single biggest pain point.
>> And so it is the single biggest opportunity.
>> Fulfill the promise of "Everyone can code": focus on simplifying deployment.
>> Step 1: Acquire Matthias' great tool.
>> Step 2: Enhance it for current requirements across platforms.
>> Step 3: Look for every opportunity to further simplify the process, and take it, at least one more simplification with each new build.
>> This is important. It really is.
>> --
>> And no, web export will not magically save things.  Even when that becomes truly production-ready, it's only for web apps.  Not everything needs to be a web app.
>> There are a hundred ways to make web apps.
>> There are few ways to make cross-platform native apps.
>> And almost none that rival what LC can do on the desktop.
>> Play into strengths.  Make native deployment the best it can be.
>> When that's done, only then resume work on more peripheral features.
>> -- 
>> Richard Gaskin
>> Fourth World Systems
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Mon Oct 16 22:49:15 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2023 22:49:15 -0400
Subject: arrayToJSON on lc server
In-Reply-To: <F6C9FD71-71BA-4A02-9CBA-AA7F81E03E43@optusnet.com.au>
References: <F6C9FD71-71BA-4A02-9CBA-AA7F81E03E43@optusnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <CADCoycN0328t6dynX58mrwU4oht-2aQQEU7vZNZ772CTT3_j4A@mail.gmail.com>

the externalfunctions doesn't seem to be returning anything for a project i
just opened (never tested it, before). that project has a lot of
standalone inclusions, some of which have external functions, so i don't
know if it means externals that are directly attached to the stack (like
old xcmd's/xfcn's).
grasping at straws, because i'm not deploying to lc server on linux
* i assume you manually included mergjson in your standalone (assuming
you're building your project). if not, try that.
* have you tried embedding the source from the
mergJSONLibrary.livecodescript into your main stack and then stepping
through the code? it's available in the oss repo or any of the forks of
that repo. that's just the library, not the mergjsonencode external, but it
might get you closer.
* if that doesn't work, there are at least two other oss lc json codebases,
the most popular being mark smith's, which, i think, is what monte used
when he wrote mergjson.

On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 7:21 PM Neville Smythe via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I am having a problem with the function arrayToJSON on LC Server 9.6.10
> pro (Linux host) (I couldn't get it to work on earlier versions either)
>
> I get the error
>
> Function: error in function handler (arrayToJSON)
> The mergJSON.so file is in the Externals folder, which resides in the same
> directory as livecode-server. Since revdb calls work, which I assume use
> the revdb.so library, evidently Externals are loading, and permissions for
> mergJSON.so are the same as for revdb.so.
>
> This is supposed to work out of the box, so I must be missing something
> obvious.
>
> BTW, the call "the externalFunctions of this stack" return empty - is that
> correct, should it not return the functions available in the Externals .so
> libraries?
>
> Neville Smythe
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Mon Oct 16 23:03:24 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2023 23:03:24 -0400
Subject: arrayToJSON on lc server
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycN0328t6dynX58mrwU4oht-2aQQEU7vZNZ772CTT3_j4A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <F6C9FD71-71BA-4A02-9CBA-AA7F81E03E43@optusnet.com.au>
 <CADCoycN0328t6dynX58mrwU4oht-2aQQEU7vZNZ772CTT3_j4A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycMfGkWhdGUx2KpAbun8oAQQgeOWSQBq=+Ye7rk0QsPQmg@mail.gmail.com>

let's see: in the public repo, there's the json.lcb source:
https://github.com/livecode/livecode/blob/4606a10ea10b16d5071d0f9f263ccdd7ede8b31d/extensions/libraries/json/json.lcb#L4
also, references to the "fastjson" library:
https://github.com/bhall2001/fastjson

On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 10:49 PM Mike Kerner <MikeKerner at roadrunner.com>
wrote:

> the externalfunctions doesn't seem to be returning anything for a project
> i just opened (never tested it, before). that project has a lot of
> standalone inclusions, some of which have external functions, so i don't
> know if it means externals that are directly attached to the stack (like
> old xcmd's/xfcn's).
> grasping at straws, because i'm not deploying to lc server on linux
> * i assume you manually included mergjson in your standalone (assuming
> you're building your project). if not, try that.
> * have you tried embedding the source from the
> mergJSONLibrary.livecodescript into your main stack and then stepping
> through the code? it's available in the oss repo or any of the forks of
> that repo. that's just the library, not the mergjsonencode external, but it
> might get you closer.
> * if that doesn't work, there are at least two other oss lc json
> codebases, the most popular being mark smith's, which, i think, is what
> monte used when he wrote mergjson.
>
> On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 7:21 PM Neville Smythe via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> I am having a problem with the function arrayToJSON on LC Server 9.6.10
>> pro (Linux host) (I couldn't get it to work on earlier versions either)
>>
>> I get the error
>>
>> Function: error in function handler (arrayToJSON)
>> The mergJSON.so file is in the Externals folder, which resides in the
>> same directory as livecode-server. Since revdb calls work, which I assume
>> use the revdb.so library, evidently Externals are loading, and permissions
>> for mergJSON.so are the same as for revdb.so.
>>
>> This is supposed to work out of the box, so I must be missing something
>> obvious.
>>
>> BTW, the call "the externalFunctions of this stack" return empty - is
>> that correct, should it not return the functions available in the Externals
>> .so libraries?
>>
>> Neville Smythe
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>    and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From derek-lc-list at speedbump.io  Mon Oct 16 23:36:23 2023
From: derek-lc-list at speedbump.io (Derek Bump)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2023 22:36:23 -0500
Subject: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
In-Reply-To: <d1f9f298-bff7-4108-97e0-3d3efda4bbec@fourthworld.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB753347D5EBBD0207247ECE66B2D2A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <d1f9f298-bff7-4108-97e0-3d3efda4bbec@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <89c024d7-607d-4596-96c4-ae48bac1d878@speedbump.io>

Thank you for speaking up, Richard. I could not agree more: deployment 
issues are a critical bottleneck that deserves immediate attention.

Regards,

Derek Bump


On 10/13/23 12:46, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
> We see it here in this list. We see it in the forums. We see it 
> wherever app deployment is discussed:
>
> OS requirements for packaging/stapling/signing apps are onerous.
>
> At the edge of, and sometimes exceeding, being prohibitively so.
>
> There's no point in making a standalone if you can't ship it.
>
> If pro devs with decades of experience struggle with this, newcomers 
> will run screaming.
>
> SIMPLIFYING DEPLOYMENT IS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY.
>
> Pardon the all-caps. I rarely use them. But this is important.
>
> Simplifying deployment is more important than "AI".
> Simplifying deployment is more important than "nocode".
>
> It is the single biggest pain point.
>
> And so it is the single biggest opportunity.


From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Tue Oct 17 11:24:21 2023
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2023 11:24:21 -0400
Subject: arrayToJSON on lc server
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycMfGkWhdGUx2KpAbun8oAQQgeOWSQBq=+Ye7rk0QsPQmg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <F6C9FD71-71BA-4A02-9CBA-AA7F81E03E43@optusnet.com.au>
 <CADCoycN0328t6dynX58mrwU4oht-2aQQEU7vZNZ772CTT3_j4A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADCoycMfGkWhdGUx2KpAbun8oAQQgeOWSQBq=+Ye7rk0QsPQmg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002b01da010e$04cc03a0$0e640ae0$@net>

I've been using fastJson. I do a "start using" to include it as a library. To date I have not had any problems encoding an LC array to JSON and decoding it to a JavaScript array on the client browser.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2023 11:03 PM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Mike Kerner
Subject: Re: arrayToJSON on lc server

let's see: in the public repo, there's the json.lcb source:
https://github.com/livecode/livecode/blob/4606a10ea10b16d5071d0f9f263ccdd7ede8b31d/extensions/libraries/json/json.lcb#L4
also, references to the "fastjson" library:
https://github.com/bhall2001/fastjson

On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 10:49 PM Mike Kerner <MikeKerner at roadrunner.com>
wrote:

> the externalfunctions doesn't seem to be returning anything for a 
> project i just opened (never tested it, before). that project has a 
> lot of standalone inclusions, some of which have external functions, 
> so i don't know if it means externals that are directly attached to 
> the stack (like old xcmd's/xfcn's).
> grasping at straws, because i'm not deploying to lc server on linux
> * i assume you manually included mergjson in your standalone (assuming 
> you're building your project). if not, try that.
> * have you tried embedding the source from the 
> mergJSONLibrary.livecodescript into your main stack and then stepping 
> through the code? it's available in the oss repo or any of the forks 
> of that repo. that's just the library, not the mergjsonencode 
> external, but it might get you closer.
> * if that doesn't work, there are at least two other oss lc json 
> codebases, the most popular being mark smith's, which, i think, is 
> what monte used when he wrote mergjson.
>
> On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 7:21 PM Neville Smythe via use-livecode < 
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> I am having a problem with the function arrayToJSON on LC Server 
>> 9.6.10 pro (Linux host) (I couldn't get it to work on earlier 
>> versions either)
>>
>> I get the error
>>
>> Function: error in function handler (arrayToJSON) The mergJSON.so 
>> file is in the Externals folder, which resides in the same directory 
>> as livecode-server. Since revdb calls work, which I assume use the 
>> revdb.so library, evidently Externals are loading, and permissions 
>> for mergJSON.so are the same as for revdb.so.
>>
>> This is supposed to work out of the box, so I must be missing 
>> something obvious.
>>
>> BTW, the call "the externalFunctions of this stack" return empty - is 
>> that correct, should it not return the functions available in the 
>> Externals .so libraries?
>>
>> Neville Smythe
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second 
> day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>    and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
>


--
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From bvlahos at mac.com  Tue Oct 17 13:37:22 2023
From: bvlahos at mac.com (Bill Vlahos)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2023 10:37:22 -0700
Subject: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
In-Reply-To: <FDC45705-7594-4294-9851-564E60F2031F@livecode.com>
References: <mailman.1.1696089601.89108.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <B4839189-B0EC-4D3F-AB4B-2C04F0EB0563@uzh.ch>
 <8B04CB3A-EE65-4346-BC42-B5A10E599003@livecode.com>
 <05A7E909-CE87-47A0-B288-ADEB8F18643C@m-r-d.de>
 <EF774AE9-5843-455E-87D7-1A0D50AEEA31@livecode.com>
 <20EC1E2E-1619-4F1D-AA81-0907042C6357@mac.com>
 <252DBA11-1A8B-41E3-93DA-DC2ED08A7274@livecode.com>
 <SJ0PR02MB753347D5EBBD0207247ECE66B2D2A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <9C6A780E-CFD1-41F7-AE6D-623BC6587153@m-r-d.de>
 <FDC45705-7594-4294-9851-564E60F2031F@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <4A3F8845-9136-4F8F-9131-A502A268F011@mac.com>

Heather,

I appreciate your answer.

Thank you,
Bill Vlahos

> On Oct 16, 2023, at 3:31 AM, Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Yes, that was the question I was answering.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On 13 Oct 2023, at 18:58, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Yes that is definitely the case.
>> 
>> But Bill asked if Apple will "fix that in Sonoma" so his old standalones will still work under Sonoma without building them again with 9.6.10 or 10.0.6. At least that was my understanding. ;) 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> Am 13.10.2023 um 18:32 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> Heather, just to be clear, I was under the implression that 9.6.10 and 10.0.6 WAS the fix for this. 
>>> 
>>> Bob S
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> On Behalf Of Heather Laine via use-livecode
>>> Sent: Friday, October 13, 2023 1:37 AM
>>> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
>>> Cc: Heather Laine <heather at livecode.com>
>>> Subject: Re: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
>>> 
>>> I don't think you can hope for that. It's not a bug, its a change in the way they are implementing menus.
>>> 
>>> Best Regards,
>>> 
>>> Heather
>>> 
>>> Heather Laine
>>> Customer Services Manager
>>> LiveCode Ltd
>>> www.livecode.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Oct 17 20:11:43 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2023 19:11:43 -0500
Subject: OS X document icon missing
Message-ID: <758bcdba-ecf9-4477-9fbd-f81e966e6808@hyperactivesw.com>

How do I force Finder to show a custom document icon? I've created .icns files for both the app 
and its documents. I entered a custom extension in standalone settings. In a built standalone 
the app icon appears normally but an associated stack document has only a generic blank icon.

I used Get Info to set the document stacks to always open with my app (and it does) but the 
icon still does not appear. The plist does contain the correct icon info and both .icns files 
are present in the app's Contents/Resources/ folder.

It looks like a Finder problem but relaunching Finder didn't fix it. Ideas?

LC 9.6.10.
-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From rabit at revigniter.com  Wed Oct 18 10:02:37 2023
From: rabit at revigniter.com (Ralf Bitter)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2023 16:02:37 +0200
Subject: Universal buttons: bugs or feature
In-Reply-To: <A9780204-4439-4CD1-B5E6-31E254BCF984@gmail.com>
References: <A9780204-4439-4CD1-B5E6-31E254BCF984@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <04595ac7-76d5-a9fa-2986-6ab1ea9b5648@revigniter.com>

These issues are fixed in the latest release version 1.4.0.


Ralf



On 15.10.2023 21:23, Mark Smith via use-livecode wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> Recently I decided to try out a number of different button styles to see which ones I liked best, and I ran across some odd behaviour with Universal buttons. First, there does not appear to be any style difference between an enabled universal button and a disabled one. With all other button styles there is a noticeable difference between the enabled and disabled versions. More importantly (perhaps) with all other button types if you depress the mouse over the button then move the mouse off the button and release it it does not fire the button. With universal buttons if you move a depressed mouse off the button and then release it the button fires. And this behaviour does not appear to conform to Apples user interface guidelines "The mousedown event is fired at an Element when a pointing device button is pressed while the pointer is inside the element.
> 
> Are these differences in the Universal button deliberate features or bugs? If features, why so?
> 
> Thanks
> Mark
> 


From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Wed Oct 18 10:34:21 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2023 15:34:21 +0100
Subject: Universal buttons: bugs or feature
In-Reply-To: <04595ac7-76d5-a9fa-2986-6ab1ea9b5648@revigniter.com>
References: <A9780204-4439-4CD1-B5E6-31E254BCF984@gmail.com>
 <04595ac7-76d5-a9fa-2986-6ab1ea9b5648@revigniter.com>
Message-ID: <8D50C7C7-61FE-4B0C-9AD5-01A42392E8B8@gmail.com>

Thanks Ralf.

> On 18 Oct 2023, at 3:02 pm, Ralf Bitter <rabit at revigniter.com> wrote:
> 
> These issues are fixed in the latest release version 1.4.0.
> 
> 
> Ralf
> 
> 
> 
> On 15.10.2023 21:23, Mark Smith via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hello all,
>> Recently I decided to try out a number of different button styles to see which ones I liked best, and I ran across some odd behaviour with “Universal” buttons. First, there does not appear to be any style difference between an enabled universal button and a disabled one. With all other button styles there is a noticeable difference between the enabled and disabled versions. More importantly (perhaps) with all other button types if you depress the mouse over the button then move the mouse off the button and release it it does not fire the button. With universal buttons if you move a depressed mouse off the button and then release it the button fires. And this behaviour does not appear to conform to Apple’s user interface guidelines "The mousedown event is fired at an Element when a pointing device button is pressed while the pointer is inside the element.”
>> Are these differences in the Universal button deliberate features or bugs? If features, why so?
>> Thanks
>> Mark



From paul at researchware.com  Wed Oct 18 11:35:40 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2023 11:35:40 -0400
Subject: OS X document icon missing
In-Reply-To: <758bcdba-ecf9-4477-9fbd-f81e966e6808@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <758bcdba-ecf9-4477-9fbd-f81e966e6808@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <e2e592e8-d95a-492d-a4c1-34c4ecb32a68@researchware.com>

On 10/17/2023 8:11 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
> How do I force Finder to show a custom document icon? I've created 
> .icns files for both the app and its documents. I entered a custom 
> extension in standalone settings. In a built standalone the app icon 
> appears normally but an associated stack document has only a generic 
> blank icon.
>
> I used Get Info to set the document stacks to always open with my app 
> (and it does) but the icon still does not appear. The plist does 
> contain the correct icon info and both .icns files are present in the 
> app's Contents/Resources/ folder.
>
> It looks like a Finder problem but relaunching Finder didn't fix it. 
> Ideas?
>
> LC 9.6.10.

I don't think this is related to the problem (above) you have. If you 
have identified the document extension in the Standalone setting for 
macOS and set an ics file of icons (or the appropriate sizes required by 
Apple) than documents created by that app should display the icon. I'd 
double check that the Docunmet extension and Document Type (if you're 
using Types) in the setting match what the file is actually using. I've 
had an extra character (sometime a space which is hard to see) in the 
past that took me a bit to figure it out.

Unrelated, if you ever need more than one document type, below is some 
code I run 'on standaloneSaved' to modify the plist to add additional 
document types and icon sets to my macOS app.

     put tMac64BuildFolder&tAppName&".app/Contents/Info.plist" into 
tSrcFile -- overwrite original
     --
     if there is a file tSrcFile then
       put revXMLCreateTreeFromFile(tSrcFile,true,true,false) into tTreeID
       if tTreeID begins with "xmlerr" then
         answer error "<p>Error reading XML plist file for updating 
document types during build.</p><p>"&tTreeID&"</p>"
       else
         -- list of document types <name>,<icon file><extension>,<type 
code><cr>
         put "HyperRESEARCH Study,StandaloneDoc.icns,hs2,HRs2"&cr into 
tDocTypes
         put "HyperRESEARCH Tools,StandaloneTool.icns,rwtl,RWTL"&cr 
after tDocTypes
         put "HyperRESEARCH Study Package,StandalonePackage.icns,hsz,HSZ 
"&cr after tDocTypes
         put "HyperRESEARCH Study 
Package,StandalonePackage.icns,hs4z,HS4Z" after tDocTypes
         -- XML template
         put 
"<dict>"&cr&"<key>CFBundleTypeExtensions</key>"&cr&"<array>"&cr&"<string>[[tExtension]]</string>"&cr&"</array>"&cr 
into tXMLTemplate
         put 
"<key>CFBundleTypeIconFile</key>"&cr&"<string>[[tIconFile]]</string>"&cr&"<key>CFBundleTypeName</key>"&cr 
after tXMLTemplate
         put 
"<string>[[tDocName]]</string>"&cr&"<key>CFBundleTypeOSTypes</key>"&cr&"<array>"&cr&"<string>[[tTypeCode]]</string>"&cr 
after tXMLTemplate
         put 
"</array>"&cr&"<key>CFBundleTypeRole</key>"&cr&"<string>Editor</string>"&cr&"</dict>"&cr 
after tXMLTemplate
         -- add document types under parent <plist><dict><array> at end
         repeat for each line tDocType in tDocTypes
           put item 1 of tDocType into tDocName
           put item 2 of tDocType into tIconFile
           put item 3 of tDocType into tExtension
           put item 4 of tDocType into tTypeCode
           put merge(tXMLTemplate) into tNodeContents
           revXMLAppend tTreeID, "/plist/dict/array",tNodeContents
         end repeat
         -- output updated plist
         get empty -- clear 'it' for any possible error from revXMLText 
that places the error in 'it'
         put revXMLText(tTreeID,,true) into tXMLText
         if it is not empty then
           answer error "<p>Error writing updated XML plist 
file.</p><p>"&it&"</p>"
         end if
         put uniDecode(uniEncode(tXMLText),"UTF8") into URL 
("file:"&tSrcFile)
       end if
     end if



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Oct 18 13:11:03 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2023 12:11:03 -0500
Subject: OS X document icon missing
In-Reply-To: <e2e592e8-d95a-492d-a4c1-34c4ecb32a68@researchware.com>
References: <758bcdba-ecf9-4477-9fbd-f81e966e6808@hyperactivesw.com>
 <e2e592e8-d95a-492d-a4c1-34c4ecb32a68@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <18b43c4f070.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

You may have identified the problem. The original HC stack was ported to  
LC and the client used the free OSS version of LC to access it. Sonoma, of 
course, broke that. This is the recipe stack that I posted here, with 
permission, 2 years ago. He's not a developer and didn't want to pay a 
subscription for the single stack he uses daily. He's been collecting 
recipes for 30 years.

So I made him a quick splash app that would let him access the stack. Since 
the original was created and opened with LC I think changing the extension 
isn't working. I've been looking up ways to clear the icon cache. I'll try 
a few things.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On October 18, 2023 10:37:56 AM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>
>
> I don't think this is related to the problem (above) you have. If you
> have identified the document extension in the Standalone setting for
> macOS and set an ics file of icons (or the appropriate sizes required by
> Apple) than documents created by that app should display the icon. I'd
> double check that the Docunmet extension and Document Type (if you're
> using Types) in the setting match what the file is actually using. I've
> had an extra character (sometime a space which is hard to see) in the
> past that took me a bit to figure it out.
>
> Unrelated, if you ever need more than one document type, below is some
> code I run 'on standaloneSaved' to modify the plist to add additional
> document types and icon sets to my macOS app.
>
>     put tMac64BuildFolder&tAppName&".app/Contents/Info.plist" into
> tSrcFile -- overwrite original
>     --
>     if there is a file tSrcFile then
>       put revXMLCreateTreeFromFile(tSrcFile,true,true,false) into tTreeID
>       if tTreeID begins with "xmlerr" then
>         answer error "<p>Error reading XML plist file for updating
> document types during build.</p><p>"&tTreeID&"</p>"
>       else
>         -- list of document types <name>,<icon file><extension>,<type
> code><cr>
>         put "HyperRESEARCH Study,StandaloneDoc.icns,hs2,HRs2"&cr into
> tDocTypes
>         put "HyperRESEARCH Tools,StandaloneTool.icns,rwtl,RWTL"&cr
> after tDocTypes
>         put "HyperRESEARCH Study Package,StandalonePackage.icns,hsz,HSZ
> "&cr after tDocTypes
>         put "HyperRESEARCH Study
> Package,StandalonePackage.icns,hs4z,HS4Z" after tDocTypes
>         -- XML template
>         put
> "<dict>"&cr&"<key>CFBundleTypeExtensions</key>"&cr&"<array>"&cr&"<string>[[tExtension]]</string>"&cr&"</array>"&cr
> into tXMLTemplate
>         put
> "<key>CFBundleTypeIconFile</key>"&cr&"<string>[[tIconFile]]</string>"&cr&"<key>CFBundleTypeName</key>"&cr
> after tXMLTemplate
>         put
> "<string>[[tDocName]]</string>"&cr&"<key>CFBundleTypeOSTypes</key>"&cr&"<array>"&cr&"<string>[[tTypeCode]]</string>"&cr
> after tXMLTemplate
>         put
> "</array>"&cr&"<key>CFBundleTypeRole</key>"&cr&"<string>Editor</string>"&cr&"</dict>"&cr
> after tXMLTemplate
>         -- add document types under parent <plist><dict><array> at end
>         repeat for each line tDocType in tDocTypes
>           put item 1 of tDocType into tDocName
>           put item 2 of tDocType into tIconFile
>           put item 3 of tDocType into tExtension
>           put item 4 of tDocType into tTypeCode
>           put merge(tXMLTemplate) into tNodeContents
>           revXMLAppend tTreeID, "/plist/dict/array",tNodeContents
>         end repeat
>         -- output updated plist
>         get empty -- clear 'it' for any possible error from revXMLText
> that places the error in 'it'
>         put revXMLText(tTreeID,,true) into tXMLText
>         if it is not empty then
>           answer error "<p>Error writing updated XML plist
> file.</p><p>"&it&"</p>"
>         end if
>         put uniDecode(uniEncode(tXMLText),"UTF8") into URL
> ("file:"&tSrcFile)
>       end if
>     end if
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Oct 18 15:54:24 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2023 14:54:24 -0500
Subject: OS X document icon missing
In-Reply-To: <e2e592e8-d95a-492d-a4c1-34c4ecb32a68@researchware.com>
References: <758bcdba-ecf9-4477-9fbd-f81e966e6808@hyperactivesw.com>
 <e2e592e8-d95a-492d-a4c1-34c4ecb32a68@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <896476c5-3818-4b4b-82fc-c968a3757cd6@hyperactivesw.com>

On 10/18/23 10:35 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
> If you have identified the document extension in the Standalone setting for macOS and set an 
> ics file of icons (or the appropriate sizes required by Apple) than documents created by that 
> app should display the icon.

No go. Here is the relevant part of the plist:

<key>CFBundleDocumentTypes</key>
	<array>
		<dict>
			<key>CFBundleTypeExtensions</key>
			<array>
<string>.rbox</string>
			</array>
			<key>CFBundleTypeIconFile</key>
			<string>StandaloneDoc.icns</string>
			<key>CFBundleTypeName</key>
<string>Recipe Box Files</string>
			<key>CFBundleTypeOSTypes</key>
			<array>
<string>rbox</string>
			</array>
			<key>CFBundleTypeRole</key>
			<string>Editor</string>
		</dict>
	</array>


The app does not create new files, it just opens the existing stack, originally a LC file. I 
tried a "save as..." but that didn't work either. Is there a way to set the signature on an 
existing file? I did try and the stack wouldn't open, presumably it's corrupted.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From paul at researchware.com  Wed Oct 18 16:59:04 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2023 16:59:04 -0400
Subject: OS X document icon missing
In-Reply-To: <896476c5-3818-4b4b-82fc-c968a3757cd6@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <758bcdba-ecf9-4477-9fbd-f81e966e6808@hyperactivesw.com>
 <e2e592e8-d95a-492d-a4c1-34c4ecb32a68@researchware.com>
 <896476c5-3818-4b4b-82fc-c968a3757cd6@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <286e9bf7-0102-446f-b576-ca4197a33fcc@researchware.com>

Yes, that look right. The file extension is .rbox and the file type is 
'rbox' for 'Recipe Box Files'

I wonder since it only READS .rbox files and does not create them, if 
you need to context-click (CTRL-CLICK) on a .rbox file and select "Open 
With.." to see if your app (an reader of .rbox files) is in the list and 
open one to get macOS to associate viewing .rbox files with your App, 
since it does not actually create .rbox files?


On 10/18/2023 3:54 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
> On 10/18/23 10:35 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
>> If you have identified the document extension in the Standalone 
>> setting for macOS and set an ics file of icons (or the appropriate 
>> sizes required by Apple) than documents created by that app should 
>> display the icon.
>
> No go. Here is the relevant part of the plist:
>
> <key>CFBundleDocumentTypes</key>
>     <array>
>         <dict>
>             <key>CFBundleTypeExtensions</key>
>             <array>
> <string>.rbox</string>
>             </array>
>             <key>CFBundleTypeIconFile</key>
>             <string>StandaloneDoc.icns</string>
>             <key>CFBundleTypeName</key>
> <string>Recipe Box Files</string>
>             <key>CFBundleTypeOSTypes</key>
>             <array>
> <string>rbox</string>
>             </array>
>             <key>CFBundleTypeRole</key>
>             <string>Editor</string>
>         </dict>
>     </array>
>
>
> The app does not create new files, it just opens the existing stack, 
> originally a LC file. I tried a "save as..." but that didn't work 
> either. Is there a way to set the signature on an existing file? I did 
> try and the stack wouldn't open, presumably it's corrupted.
>



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Oct 18 18:18:03 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2023 17:18:03 -0500
Subject: OS X document icon missing
In-Reply-To: <286e9bf7-0102-446f-b576-ca4197a33fcc@researchware.com>
References: <758bcdba-ecf9-4477-9fbd-f81e966e6808@hyperactivesw.com>
 <e2e592e8-d95a-492d-a4c1-34c4ecb32a68@researchware.com>
 <896476c5-3818-4b4b-82fc-c968a3757cd6@hyperactivesw.com>
 <286e9bf7-0102-446f-b576-ca4197a33fcc@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <709627b9-929e-4dbf-9bef-12d82464613b@hyperactivesw.com>

My app is not in the "Open With..." list. I used "Other" to open the stack with my app. It 
worked but the document icon still did not show up in Finder.

My client says he double-clicks the Recipes stack to open LC (it's the only stack he has.) Once 
I assigned my standalone in Get Info it does work and Finder suggests it (and only it) when I 
choose "Open with...", but the document icon is still missing. Blech.

What I learned today: If your stack has a custom extension, LC will open it and you can do some 
basic things like navigation, but nothing else. Keyboard shortcuts don't work and the message 
box does not see the stack at all. Even if I do something non-stack-related ("put the 
fontnames") there is no response. The message box is totally broken. Double-clicking a control 
does not open the property inspector. Right-clicking with the Edit tool does not show a menu. 
When I changed the extension back to ".livecode" and restarted LC all works normally. Tested in 
9.6.9 and LC 9.6.10.

Double blech.

On 10/18/23 3:59 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
> Yes, that look right. The file extension is .rbox and the file type is 'rbox' for 'Recipe Box 
> Files'
> 
> I wonder since it only READS .rbox files and does not create them, if you need to context-click 
> (CTRL-CLICK) on a .rbox file and select "Open With.." to see if your app (an reader of .rbox 
> files) is in the list and open one to get macOS to associate viewing .rbox files with your App, 
> since it does not actually create .rbox files?
> 
> 
> On 10/18/2023 3:54 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
>> On 10/18/23 10:35 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
>>> If you have identified the document extension in the Standalone setting for macOS and set an 
>>> ics file of icons (or the appropriate sizes required by Apple) than documents created by 
>>> that app should display the icon.
>>
>> No go. Here is the relevant part of the plist:
>>
>> <key>CFBundleDocumentTypes</key>
>>     <array>
>>         <dict>
>>             <key>CFBundleTypeExtensions</key>
>>             <array>
>> <string>.rbox</string>
>>             </array>
>>             <key>CFBundleTypeIconFile</key>
>>             <string>StandaloneDoc.icns</string>
>>             <key>CFBundleTypeName</key>
>> <string>Recipe Box Files</string>
>>             <key>CFBundleTypeOSTypes</key>
>>             <array>
>> <string>rbox</string>
>>             </array>
>>             <key>CFBundleTypeRole</key>
>>             <string>Editor</string>
>>         </dict>
>>     </array>
>>
>>
>> The app does not create new files, it just opens the existing stack, originally a LC file. I 
>> tried a "save as..." but that didn't work either. Is there a way to set the signature on an 
>> existing file? I did try and the stack wouldn't open, presumably it's corrupted.
>>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From mark at livecode.com  Thu Oct 19 04:29:47 2023
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2023 09:29:47 +0100
Subject: OS X document icon missing
In-Reply-To: <896476c5-3818-4b4b-82fc-c968a3757cd6@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <758bcdba-ecf9-4477-9fbd-f81e966e6808@hyperactivesw.com>
 <e2e592e8-d95a-492d-a4c1-34c4ecb32a68@researchware.com>
 <896476c5-3818-4b4b-82fc-c968a3757cd6@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <0036db9f9ae533f16851c1f884eda372@livecode.com>

On 2023-10-18 20:54, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
> On 10/18/23 10:35 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
>> If you have identified the document extension in the Standalone 
>> setting for macOS and set an ics file of icons (or the appropriate 
>> sizes required by Apple) than documents created by that app should 
>> display the icon.
> 
> No go. Here is the relevant part of the plist:
> 
> <key>CFBundleDocumentTypes</key>
> 	<array>
> 		<dict>
> 			<key>CFBundleTypeExtensions</key>
> 			<array>
> <string>.rbox</string>
> 			</array>

The extension shouldn't have an initial `.` - I suspect that is the 
problem :)

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things


From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Oct 19 05:03:47 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2023 11:03:47 +0200
Subject: Google new API 33 requirements
Message-ID: <020B1F0E-405A-465C-828F-04B3225DA11A@major-k.de>

Hi friends,

I installed the build tools for API 33 and created an update
for my app.

In the STAB I selected : Minimum Android Version -> 8.0
and uploaded the app to Google.

Now I read in the Google Play Console this for my app:
...
API Level 26+
Target-SDK 33
...
However Google still shows me that my app is targeted to
Android Version 12 API 31!? 
Not sure if they mean the previous version I wanted to update?

Does that mean I have to select -> 13 (API 33) as the 
Minimum Android Version in the STAB?

If yes, is the app then still backwards-compatible with older 
devices/android versions? My tablet has Android version 8.0 installed.

Thanks for any hints!


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From merakosp at gmail.com  Thu Oct 19 05:42:55 2023
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2023 12:42:55 +0300
Subject: Google new API 33 requirements
In-Reply-To: <020B1F0E-405A-465C-828F-04B3225DA11A@major-k.de>
References: <020B1F0E-405A-465C-828F-04B3225DA11A@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq8jwKwkeHcP6R+KmXax810Ap+an1z3EB=XtoGCPt=waJg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Klaus,

*>>>>>Does that mean I have to select -> 13 (API 33) as the *
*Minimum Android Version in the STAB?*

Nope, if you select "13 (API 33)" in the android standalone application
settings it means your app will run only on devices that run Android 13+.

Regarding the warning/error you get from the Play Store - where (in which
track) did you upload your new build? Was it in the Production track, or in
any of the (Internal/External) Testing tracks?

Could you post a screenshot of the exact warning/error you get?

Also, I take it you used LiveCode 9.6.10 or 10.0.0 DP-6 to build the app,
since these versions build against API 33 - is that correct?

Moreover, note that you do not need the "SDK Build tools v33" - you need
"SDK Platform API 33". These are two different things. The version of the
SDK Build tools that are installed must be 31.0.0. I believe you have the
correct versions installed anyway, but I just mention it again to prevent
confusion :)

KInd regards,
Panos
--

On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 at 12:04, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi friends,
>
> I installed the build tools for API 33 and created an update
> for my app.
>
> In the STAB I selected : Minimum Android Version -> 8.0
> and uploaded the app to Google.
>
> Now I read in the Google Play Console this for my app:
> ...
> API Level 26+
> Target-SDK 33
> ...
> However Google still shows me that my app is targeted to
> Android Version 12 API 31!?
> Not sure if they mean the previous version I wanted to update?
>
> Does that mean I have to select -> 13 (API 33) as the
> Minimum Android Version in the STAB?
>
> If yes, is the app then still backwards-compatible with older
> devices/android versions? My tablet has Android version 8.0 installed.
>
> Thanks for any hints!
>
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Oct 19 05:56:49 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2023 11:56:49 +0200
Subject: Google new API 33 requirements
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq8jwKwkeHcP6R+KmXax810Ap+an1z3EB=XtoGCPt=waJg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <020B1F0E-405A-465C-828F-04B3225DA11A@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq8jwKwkeHcP6R+KmXax810Ap+an1z3EB=XtoGCPt=waJg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <384ABEDA-724D-420F-ABD6-CD8D7B0FA4D6@major-k.de>

Hi Panos,

> Am 19.10.2023 um 11:42 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hello Klaus,
> 
> *>>>>>Does that mean I have to select -> 13 (API 33) as the *
> *Minimum Android Version in the STAB?*
> 
> Nope, if you select "13 (API 33)" in the android standalone application
> settings it means your app will run only on devices that run Android 13+.

ah, thanks for confirmation.

> Regarding the warning/error you get from the Play Store - where (in which
> track) did you upload your new build? Was it in the Production track, or in
> any of the (Internal/External) Testing tracks?

My update is currently "in examination" in the Production track.
So I think that was more a general warning regarding my initial app.

Now I have to wait for the result of the examination.

> Could you post a screenshot of the exact warning/error you get?

See above...

> Also, I take it you used LiveCode 9.6.10 or 10.0.0 DP-6 to build the app,
> since these versions build against API 33 - is that correct?

Yes LC 9.6.10.

> Moreover, note that you do not need the "SDK Build tools v33" - you need
> "SDK Platform API 33". These are two different things. The version of the
> SDK Build tools that are installed must be 31.0.0. I believe you have the
> correct versions installed anyway, but I just mention it again to prevent
> confusion :)

Just checked what is checked in Android Studio:
SDK platform -> Android Tiramisu (Tiramisu) -> API Level 33
SDK Tools -> Android SDL Build-Tools 31.0.0
Check! :-)

Thank you for the quick answer!

> KInd regards,
> Panos

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From merakosp at gmail.com  Thu Oct 19 06:08:54 2023
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2023 13:08:54 +0300
Subject: Google new API 33 requirements
In-Reply-To: <384ABEDA-724D-420F-ABD6-CD8D7B0FA4D6@major-k.de>
References: <020B1F0E-405A-465C-828F-04B3225DA11A@major-k.de>
 <CA+JfEq8jwKwkeHcP6R+KmXax810Ap+an1z3EB=XtoGCPt=waJg@mail.gmail.com>
 <384ABEDA-724D-420F-ABD6-CD8D7B0FA4D6@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq8LtkcJpx3zh-n6+1fDao+uSXkMkAZhq665+vMA0TMTvQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Klaus,

Thank you for the update.

>>>>*So I think that was more a general warning regarding my initial app.*
 Ah, that should be it!

Cheers,
Panos

On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 at 12:57, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Panos,
>
> > Am 19.10.2023 um 11:42 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> >
> > Hello Klaus,
> >
> > *>>>>>Does that mean I have to select -> 13 (API 33) as the *
> > *Minimum Android Version in the STAB?*
> >
> > Nope, if you select "13 (API 33)" in the android standalone application
> > settings it means your app will run only on devices that run Android 13+.
>
> ah, thanks for confirmation.
>
> > Regarding the warning/error you get from the Play Store - where (in which
> > track) did you upload your new build? Was it in the Production track, or
> in
> > any of the (Internal/External) Testing tracks?
>
> My update is currently "in examination" in the Production track.
> So I think that was more a general warning regarding my initial app.
>
> Now I have to wait for the result of the examination.
>
> > Could you post a screenshot of the exact warning/error you get?
>
> See above...
>
> > Also, I take it you used LiveCode 9.6.10 or 10.0.0 DP-6 to build the app,
> > since these versions build against API 33 - is that correct?
>
> Yes LC 9.6.10.
>
> > Moreover, note that you do not need the "SDK Build tools v33" - you need
> > "SDK Platform API 33". These are two different things. The version of the
> > SDK Build tools that are installed must be 31.0.0. I believe you have the
> > correct versions installed anyway, but I just mention it again to prevent
> > confusion :)
>
> Just checked what is checked in Android Studio:
> SDK platform -> Android Tiramisu (Tiramisu) -> API Level 33
> SDK Tools -> Android SDL Build-Tools 31.0.0
> Check! :-)
>
> Thank you for the quick answer!
>
> > KInd regards,
> > Panos
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
>
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Oct 19 12:11:43 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2023 11:11:43 -0500
Subject: OS X document icon missing
In-Reply-To: <0036db9f9ae533f16851c1f884eda372@livecode.com>
References: <758bcdba-ecf9-4477-9fbd-f81e966e6808@hyperactivesw.com>
 <e2e592e8-d95a-492d-a4c1-34c4ecb32a68@researchware.com>
 <896476c5-3818-4b4b-82fc-c968a3757cd6@hyperactivesw.com>
 <0036db9f9ae533f16851c1f884eda372@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <18b48b4fe18.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

OMG. I didn't even see that! It's my eyes, they're terrible, and getting 
worse as years go by. Thanks for the proofreading. Those little dots are 
the worst.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On October 19, 2023 3:31:18 AM Mark Waddingham via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On 2023-10-18 20:54, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
>> On 10/18/23 10:35 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
>>> If you have identified the document extension in the Standalone
>>> setting for macOS and set an ics file of icons (or the appropriate
>>> sizes required by Apple) than documents created by that app should
>>> display the icon.
>>
>> No go. Here is the relevant part of the plist:
>>
>> <key>CFBundleDocumentTypes</key>
>> 	<array>
>> 		<dict>
>> 			<key>CFBundleTypeExtensions</key>
>> 			<array>
>> <string>.rbox</string>
>> 			</array>
>
> The extension shouldn't have an initial `.` - I suspect that is the
> problem :)
>
> Warmest Regards,
>
> Mark.
>
> --
> Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Build Amazing Things
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Oct 19 17:37:16 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2023 16:37:16 -0500
Subject: OS X document icon missing
In-Reply-To: <0036db9f9ae533f16851c1f884eda372@livecode.com>
References: <758bcdba-ecf9-4477-9fbd-f81e966e6808@hyperactivesw.com>
 <e2e592e8-d95a-492d-a4c1-34c4ecb32a68@researchware.com>
 <896476c5-3818-4b4b-82fc-c968a3757cd6@hyperactivesw.com>
 <0036db9f9ae533f16851c1f884eda372@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <704b342a-df72-4342-af40-2d92e0f8953b@hyperactivesw.com>

On 10/19/23 3:29 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:
> The extension shouldn't have an initial `.` - I suspect that is the problem :)

That was it. I had to "Get Info" on the file before Finder noticed, but then the icon showed 
up. I didn't even know the dot was there; I knew it shouldn't be.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From paul at researchware.com  Thu Oct 19 18:40:02 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2023 18:40:02 -0400
Subject: OS X document icon missing
In-Reply-To: <704b342a-df72-4342-af40-2d92e0f8953b@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <758bcdba-ecf9-4477-9fbd-f81e966e6808@hyperactivesw.com>
 <e2e592e8-d95a-492d-a4c1-34c4ecb32a68@researchware.com>
 <896476c5-3818-4b4b-82fc-c968a3757cd6@hyperactivesw.com>
 <0036db9f9ae533f16851c1f884eda372@livecode.com>
 <704b342a-df72-4342-af40-2d92e0f8953b@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <258e65ad-2d9f-4f9f-a2a1-b2dcf49531cb@researchware.com>

On 10/19/2023 5:37 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
> On 10/19/23 3:29 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:
>> The extension shouldn't have an initial `.` - I suspect that is the 
>> problem :)
>
> That was it. I had to "Get Info" on the file before Finder noticed, 
> but then the icon showed up. I didn't even know the dot was there; I 
> knew it shouldn't be.
>

I someone who write a commercial software tool for researchers, I fully 
realize that a software vendor can not complete protect users from 
themselves. That said, a small Livecode enhancement might be a check if 
the file extension field starts with a . and either just remove it or 
warn the user :-)


From david.bovill at gmail.com  Fri Oct 20 11:08:46 2023
From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2023 16:08:46 +0100
Subject: Mdiai Keys - volume / play/pause/next...
Message-ID: <CAGASioOBRn=eZG36whjurpzgRp4zKL1ZUkMZG9zhF54tt_gfoA@mail.gmail.com>

Is there a way to trap for these keyboard events.

Volume and Media Keys: In the HID standard, volume and media control keys
often have specific usage IDs. For example:


   - 0xE9 is for volume up.
   - 0xEA is for volume down.
   - 0xE2 is for mute.
   - 0xCD is for play/pauseetc

From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Oct 20 18:37:19 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2023 22:37:19 +0000
Subject: Livecode Debugger
Message-ID: <8B2F35CA-CE80-4F3B-AC5B-682C0D08F63F@iotecdigital.com>

Hi all. 

I am now getting the dreaded Livecode Debugger code error and the stack is password protected. This is when launching a stack in LC 9.6.10 rc1. I would love to troubleshoot this as no one should be getting an error in a stack provided by RunRev. I just need the password. This is probably an unreasonable request, but if someone knows that password, I want to unlock the stack and see where it’s going bad. 

Bob S


From david.bovill at gmail.com  Fri Oct 20 18:39:57 2023
From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2023 23:39:57 +0100
Subject: Media Keys - volume / play/pause/next...
In-Reply-To: <CAGASioOBRn=eZG36whjurpzgRp4zKL1ZUkMZG9zhF54tt_gfoA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGASioOBRn=eZG36whjurpzgRp4zKL1ZUkMZG9zhF54tt_gfoA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGASioP9s-oUAw2ggqTGgs8oOASo-oN8aci8MiRkWMs5y19Dfg@mail.gmail.com>

Surprisingly difficult. There are a couple of apps that let you customize
play/pause interactions from the keyboard - but they dont work when sent
from other devices such as earbuds. Livecode does not seem to read these
events either....

On Fri, 20 Oct 2023 at 16:08, David Bovill <david.bovill at gmail.com> wrote:

> Is there a way to trap for these keyboard events.
>
> Volume and Media Keys: In the HID standard, volume and media control keys
> often have specific usage IDs. For example:
>
>
>    - 0xE9 is for volume up.
>    - 0xEA is for volume down.
>    - 0xE2 is for mute.
>    - 0xCD is for play/pauseetc
>
>

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Oct 20 19:41:53 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2023 18:41:53 -0500
Subject: Media Keys - volume / play/pause/next...
In-Reply-To: <CAGASioP9s-oUAw2ggqTGgs8oOASo-oN8aci8MiRkWMs5y19Dfg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGASioOBRn=eZG36whjurpzgRp4zKL1ZUkMZG9zhF54tt_gfoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGASioP9s-oUAw2ggqTGgs8oOASo-oN8aci8MiRkWMs5y19Dfg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <18b4f777de8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

If rawKeyDown/Up doesn't catch them then I assume the OS isn't sending the 
keycodes to apps.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On October 20, 2023 5:42:05 PM David Bovill via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Surprisingly difficult. There are a couple of apps that let you customize
> play/pause interactions from the keyboard - but they dont work when sent
> from other devices such as earbuds. Livecode does not seem to read these
> events either....
>
> On Fri, 20 Oct 2023 at 16:08, David Bovill <david.bovill at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Is there a way to trap for these keyboard events.
>>
>> Volume and Media Keys: In the HID standard, volume and media control keys
>> often have specific usage IDs. For example:
>>
>>
>>    - 0xE9 is for volume up.
>>    - 0xEA is for volume down.
>>    - 0xE2 is for mute.
>>    - 0xCD is for play/pauseetc
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From paul at researchware.com  Fri Oct 20 21:04:23 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2023 21:04:23 -0400
Subject: Mdiai Keys - volume / play/pause/next...
In-Reply-To: <CAGASioOBRn=eZG36whjurpzgRp4zKL1ZUkMZG9zhF54tt_gfoA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGASioOBRn=eZG36whjurpzgRp4zKL1ZUkMZG9zhF54tt_gfoA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <34400d16-f0bf-47a9-adc1-3673f1809313@researchware.com>

When I try on Windows 11 using Livecode 9.6.10 a rawKeyDown or rawkeyUp 
message, the media keys on my HP laptop all return 0 as the keyCode, so 
I think this is a bug of some sort that should be reported to the 
Livecode Quality Center https://quality.livecode.com/

The keyDown or keyUp message does not get sent. the OS (Win11) 
apparently intercepts and raises/lowers/mutes the volume or play/pause 
as applicable.


On 10/20/2023 11:08 AM, David Bovill via use-livecode wrote:
> Is there a way to trap for these keyboard events.
>
> Volume and Media Keys: In the HID standard, volume and media control keys
> often have specific usage IDs. For example:
>
>
>     - 0xE9 is for volume up.
>     - 0xEA is for volume down.
>     - 0xE2 is for mute.
>     - 0xCD is for play/pauseetc
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From david.bovill at gmail.com  Sat Oct 21 06:22:59 2023
From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill)
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2023 11:22:59 +0100
Subject: Mdiai Keys - volume / play/pause/next...
In-Reply-To: <34400d16-f0bf-47a9-adc1-3673f1809313@researchware.com>
References: <CAGASioOBRn=eZG36whjurpzgRp4zKL1ZUkMZG9zhF54tt_gfoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <34400d16-f0bf-47a9-adc1-3673f1809313@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <CAGASioO23XXNO12VQyj+38ZEfd3qFPHoECk0BOoRZCeegQaqeg@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for noting that on Windows. Nothing is sent on MacOS - at least M2
Macbook Air.

I filed a report - please vote -
https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=24375

On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 at 02:05, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> When I try on Windows 11 using Livecode 9.6.10 a rawKeyDown or rawkeyUp
> message, the media keys on my HP laptop all return 0 as the keyCode, so
> I think this is a bug of some sort that should be reported to the
> Livecode Quality Center https://quality.livecode.com/
>
> The keyDown or keyUp message does not get sent. the OS (Win11)
> apparently intercepts and raises/lowers/mutes the volume or play/pause
> as applicable.
>
>
> On 10/20/2023 11:08 AM, David Bovill via use-livecode wrote:
> > Is there a way to trap for these keyboard events.
> >
> > Volume and Media Keys: In the HID standard, volume and media control keys
> > often have specific usage IDs. For example:
> >
> >
> >     - 0xE9 is for volume up.
> >     - 0xEA is for volume down.
> >     - 0xE2 is for mute.
> >     - 0xCD is for play/pauseetc
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From klaus at major-k.de  Sat Oct 21 06:27:03 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2023 12:27:03 +0200
Subject: Mdiai Keys - volume / play/pause/next...
In-Reply-To: <CAGASioO23XXNO12VQyj+38ZEfd3qFPHoECk0BOoRZCeegQaqeg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGASioOBRn=eZG36whjurpzgRp4zKL1ZUkMZG9zhF54tt_gfoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <34400d16-f0bf-47a9-adc1-3673f1809313@researchware.com>
 <CAGASioO23XXNO12VQyj+38ZEfd3qFPHoECk0BOoRZCeegQaqeg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7F07D4CD-ECB5-4684-8B26-F6645946FA1B@major-k.de>

Hi David,

> Am 21.10.2023 um 12:22 schrieb David Bovill via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Thanks for noting that on Windows. Nothing is sent on MacOS - at least M2
> Macbook Air.

same here, macOS 12.7, MacMini Intel.
No rawkey sent...

> I filed a report - please vote -
> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=24375
> 
> On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 at 02:05, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> When I try on Windows 11 using Livecode 9.6.10 a rawKeyDown or rawkeyUp
>> message, the media keys on my HP laptop all return 0 as the keyCode, so
>> I think this is a bug of some sort that should be reported to the
>> Livecode Quality Center https://quality.livecode.com/
>> 
>> The keyDown or keyUp message does not get sent. the OS (Win11)
>> apparently intercepts and raises/lowers/mutes the volume or play/pause
>> as applicable.
>> 
>> 
>> On 10/20/2023 11:08 AM, David Bovill via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Is there a way to trap for these keyboard events.
>>> 
>>> Volume and Media Keys: In the HID standard, volume and media control keys
>>> often have specific usage IDs. For example:
>>>    - 0xE9 is for volume up.
>>>    - 0xEA is for volume down.
>>>    - 0xE2 is for mute.
>>>    - 0xCD is for play/pauseetc

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From david.bovill at gmail.com  Sat Oct 21 06:38:26 2023
From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill)
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2023 11:38:26 +0100
Subject: Media Keys - volume / play/pause/next...
In-Reply-To: <18b4f777de8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <CAGASioOBRn=eZG36whjurpzgRp4zKL1ZUkMZG9zhF54tt_gfoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGASioP9s-oUAw2ggqTGgs8oOASo-oN8aci8MiRkWMs5y19Dfg@mail.gmail.com>
 <18b4f777de8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <CAGASioPDh7cNh_iFq8PYFoZuF=8hBt4ha0DBHaeR+R=pLEOdaA@mail.gmail.com>

>
>
> The media key events are sent. Several apps accept them, and you can
> customise what they do with https://github.com/pqrs-org/Karabiner-Elements
> which works robustly.
>
> Media key input from peripherals such as keyboards or earbuds typically
> adheres to the Human Interface Device (HID) standard
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_interface_device#HID_standard>.
> Common media controls you might find include:
>
>    - Play/Pause: Toggles between play and pause for media playback.
>    - Stop: Stops the media playback.
>    - Next Track: Advances to the next track or chapter.
>    - Previous Track: Returns to the previous track or chapter.
>    - Volume Up: Increases the volume.
>    - Volume Down: Decreases the volume.
>    - Mute: Mutes or unmutes the audio.
>
> The way earbuds communicate with devices can also depend on the specific
> connection protocol they use. Bluetooth headphones and earbuds use the Audio/Video
> Remote Control Profile (AVRCP)
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bluetooth_profiles#Audio/Video_Remote_Control_Profile_(AVRCP)>
> to control playback (e.g., play, pause, volume control) on the paired
> device.
>


> On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 at 00:43, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> If rawKeyDown/Up doesn't catch them then I assume the OS isn't sending the
> keycodes to apps.
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On October 20, 2023 5:42:05 PM David Bovill via use-livecode
> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > Surprisingly difficult. There are a couple of apps that let you customize
> > play/pause interactions from the keyboard - but they dont work when sent
> > from other devices such as earbuds. Livecode does not seem to read these
> > events either....
> >
> > On Fri, 20 Oct 2023 at 16:08, David Bovill <david.bovill at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Is there a way to trap for these keyboard events.
> >>
> >> Volume and Media Keys: In the HID standard, volume and media control
> keys
> >> often have specific usage IDs. For example:
> >>
> >>
> >>    - 0xE9 is for volume up.
> >>    - 0xEA is for volume down.
> >>    - 0xE2 is for mute.
> >>    - 0xCD is for play/pauseetc
> >>
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From david.bovill at gmail.com  Sun Oct 22 05:41:02 2023
From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill)
Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2023 10:41:02 +0100
Subject: Me and target of script widgets
In-Reply-To: <CAGASioPDh7cNh_iFq8PYFoZuF=8hBt4ha0DBHaeR+R=pLEOdaA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGASioOBRn=eZG36whjurpzgRp4zKL1ZUkMZG9zhF54tt_gfoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGASioP9s-oUAw2ggqTGgs8oOASo-oN8aci8MiRkWMs5y19Dfg@mail.gmail.com>
 <18b4f777de8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CAGASioPDh7cNh_iFq8PYFoZuF=8hBt4ha0DBHaeR+R=pLEOdaA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGASioP7evW+ELO53B4_41BkUqc=yNMuJQmcbu4h1Vywtd2tAA@mail.gmail.com>

Having my first go at script widgets. It appears that there is either an
issue (or it is a feature) with script widgets and "me"?

A handler like this:

*on* mouseUp

*## All references are to "inner" controls (ie the target) and not the
group*

*put* the short id of me into shortID

*put* the long id of the target into sName

*put* the long id of me into myID

*## Have to be explicit with messages*

*-- dispatch "menu_AskEdit" to me -- or the target does not work*

*dispatch* "menu_AskEdit" to this card with myID,shortID

*end* mouseUp

When inside a script only widget shows that would normally pass the long id
of the control clicked on within the group (script widget) with myID and
the short ID of the group (script widget) itself in shortID. However both
the target and me refer to the control and not the group / script widget.
It seems there is no easy way to find out a reference to "me" in a
script widget?

I've a lot of scripts that use "me" in behaviors for potential script
widgets - so looking for a short term and long term solution for this?

From alex at tweedly.net  Sun Oct 22 06:01:15 2023
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2023 11:01:15 +0100
Subject: Me and target of script widgets
In-Reply-To: <CAGASioP7evW+ELO53B4_41BkUqc=yNMuJQmcbu4h1Vywtd2tAA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGASioOBRn=eZG36whjurpzgRp4zKL1ZUkMZG9zhF54tt_gfoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGASioP9s-oUAw2ggqTGgs8oOASo-oN8aci8MiRkWMs5y19Dfg@mail.gmail.com>
 <18b4f777de8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CAGASioPDh7cNh_iFq8PYFoZuF=8hBt4ha0DBHaeR+R=pLEOdaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGASioP7evW+ELO53B4_41BkUqc=yNMuJQmcbu4h1Vywtd2tAA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8b10d8d6-52aa-44e7-98d2-2e5d72e2424e@tweedly.net>

Brutal answer :-)

Script widgets aren't ready for release yet. They have (effectivtely) no 
documentation, no examples, no lessons.

Unless you have a desparate need to do it now, I'd suggest waiting until 
they are somewhere near ready.

Alex.

On 22/10/2023 10:41, David Bovill via use-livecode wrote:
> Having my first go at script widgets. It appears that there is either an
> issue (or it is a feature) with script widgets and "me"?
>
> A handler like this:
>
> *on* mouseUp
>
> *## All references are to "inner" controls (ie the target) and not the
> group*
>
> *put* the short id of me into shortID
>
> *put* the long id of the target into sName
>
> *put* the long id of me into myID
>
> *## Have to be explicit with messages*
>
> *-- dispatch "menu_AskEdit" to me -- or the target does not work*
>
> *dispatch* "menu_AskEdit" to this card with myID,shortID
>
> *end* mouseUp
>
> When inside a script only widget shows that would normally pass the long id
> of the control clicked on within the group (script widget) with myID and
> the short ID of the group (script widget) itself in shortID. However both
> the target and me refer to the control and not the group / script widget.
> It seems there is no easy way to find out a reference to "me" in a
> script widget?
>
> I've a lot of scripts that use "me" in behaviors for potential script
> widgets - so looking for a short term and long term solution for this?
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From klaus at major-k.de  Sun Oct 22 08:34:23 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2023 14:34:23 +0200
Subject: ANDROID player won't play MP3 from server but locally?
Message-ID: <5DE2B35A-B785-4D51-85CF-737E8A7DFA13@major-k.de>

Hi friends,

I'm having problems to play a MP3 (5 MB) from my server.
And yes, I waited up to a minute before I closed the app.
Works fine when I play it locally.

The device is connected via (not slow) W-Lan to the internet.

LC 9.6.10, macOS 12.7, Android 8.01

I created two buttons for create and delete and put this into the card script
-------------------------------------------------
command create_player

   ## This creates a black rect and nothing more?!
   ## I don't even see the ANSWER at the end of the script
   put "https://www.major-k.de/blueprint.mp3" into tURL

   ## Works immediately when using Safari browser on my Mac, 
   ## so the file is definitively there and URL correct!

   ## And yes, I added SSL & Encryption neccessary for -> httpS

   ## This works as advertised
   ## put specialfolderpath("resources") & "/blueprint.mp3" into tURL
   mobilecontrolCreate "player", "mplayer"
   mobileControlSet "mplayer", "visible", TRUE

   ## That grc is hidden:
   mobileControlSet "mplayer", "rect", (the rect of grc "player")
   mobileControlSet "mplayer", "backgroundcolor", "213,143,116"
   
   mobileControlSet "mplayer", "showController", TRUE
   mobileControlSet "mplayer", "filename", tURL
   
   if mobileControlGet("mplayer", "duration") = 0 then
      answer "Player is not initialised correctly"
   end if
   mobileControlDo "mplayer", "play"
end create_player

command delete_player
   mobileControlDo "mplayer", "stop"
   mobileControlDelete "player", "mplayer"
end delete_player
------------------------------------------------
Most of the time I have to tap the "delete" button at least 5 times or more 
before the player finally disappears?
However the sound stops immediately at the first tap!?

What am I missing?
Thanks for any hint!


Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From klaus at major-k.de  Sun Oct 22 08:42:28 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2023 14:42:28 +0200
Subject: ANDROID player won't play MP3 from server but locally? 2
Message-ID: <CCF4B261-01BC-4F55-9EE0-E8C86E968168@major-k.de>

Hi friends,

OK, found at least the DELETE problem... 8-)

command delete_player
 mobileControlDo "mplayer", "stop"
  ## mobileControlDelete "player", "mplayer"

 ## has to be:
 mobileControlDelete "mplayer"
end delete_player


Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From Bernd.Niggemann at uni-wh.de  Sun Oct 22 12:48:55 2023
From: Bernd.Niggemann at uni-wh.de (Niggemann, Bernd)
Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2023 16:48:55 +0000
Subject: Me and target of script widgets
Message-ID: <2390B2A5-E97C-408D-9D1A-8EC2730B50FE@uni-wh.de>

Hi David,

Stam Kapetanakis has done a script widget which can be found at

https://github.com/stam66/tristate/blob/main/com.sk.widget.tristate.livecodescript

Script Widgets are new and a bit special. Not as much as LCB but still.
You can use Stam's widget as a template of a working script widget.
I learned a lot from it.

Kind regards
Bernd

From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Mon Oct 23 09:09:39 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 09:09:39 -0400
Subject: Me and target of script widgets
In-Reply-To: <8b10d8d6-52aa-44e7-98d2-2e5d72e2424e@tweedly.net>
References: <CAGASioOBRn=eZG36whjurpzgRp4zKL1ZUkMZG9zhF54tt_gfoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGASioP9s-oUAw2ggqTGgs8oOASo-oN8aci8MiRkWMs5y19Dfg@mail.gmail.com>
 <18b4f777de8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CAGASioPDh7cNh_iFq8PYFoZuF=8hBt4ha0DBHaeR+R=pLEOdaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGASioP7evW+ELO53B4_41BkUqc=yNMuJQmcbu4h1Vywtd2tAA@mail.gmail.com>
 <8b10d8d6-52aa-44e7-98d2-2e5d72e2424e@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <CADCoycN9aBPmpu=hTZdW2nhkUv9-OBVgWbwweYL-Y-CLyHRaJQ@mail.gmail.com>

also brutal answer:
documentation needs to be not just extended, but written for the property
inspector and property editor, or you are going to be spinning your wheels
trying to figure out that thing, too.
this same issue has made writing lcb widgets so exceptionally painful that
i've stopped wasting my time.
the answer from the mothership has been "if you have some specific
question, ask," which, of course leads to a slew of questions, which then
go mostly or entirely unanswered.

On Sun, Oct 22, 2023 at 6:01 AM Alex Tweedly via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Brutal answer :-)
>
> Script widgets aren't ready for release yet. They have (effectivtely) no
> documentation, no examples, no lessons.
>
> Unless you have a desparate need to do it now, I'd suggest waiting until
> they are somewhere near ready.
>
> Alex.
>
> On 22/10/2023 10:41, David Bovill via use-livecode wrote:
> > Having my first go at script widgets. It appears that there is either an
> > issue (or it is a feature) with script widgets and "me"?
> >
> > A handler like this:
> >
> > *on* mouseUp
> >
> > *## All references are to "inner" controls (ie the target) and not the
> > group*
> >
> > *put* the short id of me into shortID
> >
> > *put* the long id of the target into sName
> >
> > *put* the long id of me into myID
> >
> > *## Have to be explicit with messages*
> >
> > *-- dispatch "menu_AskEdit" to me -- or the target does not work*
> >
> > *dispatch* "menu_AskEdit" to this card with myID,shortID
> >
> > *end* mouseUp
> >
> > When inside a script only widget shows that would normally pass the long
> id
> > of the control clicked on within the group (script widget) with myID and
> > the short ID of the group (script widget) itself in shortID. However both
> > the target and me refer to the control and not the group / script widget.
> > It seems there is no easy way to find out a reference to "me" in a
> > script widget?
> >
> > I've a lot of scripts that use "me" in behaviors for potential script
> > widgets - so looking for a short term and long term solution for this?
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com  Mon Oct 23 09:54:27 2023
From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Eller, Roger)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 13:54:27 +0000
Subject: Windows Standalone strands windows tasks
In-Reply-To: <SJ0PR02MB75335F1B8A9BA620BA744193B2D3A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533F0AE31AA9A3E67B47373B2D3A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <632618A9-F5A1-4245-BC4D-4B87C943F220@major-k.de>
 <SJ0PR02MB75335F1B8A9BA620BA744193B2D3A@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <BN8PR14MB2913EC6A7DF0543EFBEEE1FBAFD8A@BN8PR14MB2913.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>

I primarily develop for Windows, and haven't experienced this since my early rookie years.  I believe the secret is to have the line "set destroyStack to true" in every stack so that when it closes, nothing lingers in memory.  Then, when you actually quit, it all goes away.


~Roger

________________________________
From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> on behalf of Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2023 12:42 PM
To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Cc: Bob Sneidar <bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com>
Subject: RE: Windows Standalone strands windows tasks


CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.



Thanks I'll give that a try. I think I am already quitting the splash stack, because my MacOS works properly, but the second part I never knew about. Unfortunately my Apple laptop is in the shop so I won't be able to test until Monday.

Bob S

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> On Behalf Of Klaus major-k via use-livecode
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2023 9:20 AM
To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Cc: Klaus major-k <klaus at major-k.de>
Subject: Re: Windows Standalone strands windows tasks

Hi Bob,

> Am 12.10.2023 um 17:36 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>
> Hi all.
>
> I have a standalone that uses a splash stack, which upon launch displays a startup graphic, then hides itself and opens the mainstack of my project. On MacOS when I "quit" the entire application quits. On Windows however the splash stack (which is the stack the standalone is built from) keeps running, and if I re-launch the standalone it creates a second instance of the app in memory.
>
> How do I get the standalone to quit when I close the mainstack in Windows?

add this to the script your mainstack:
-------------------------
on closestack
  close stack "your splash stack here"
  ## do more closestack stuff
end closestack
-------------------------
That should do the trick.

Hint:
To avoid this "Windows feature:
>> if I re-launch the standalone it creates a second instance of the app in memory.
add a dummy handler to your standalone/splash stack script:
-------------------------
on relaunch
   ## NADA!
end relaunch
-------------------------

> Bob S

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major

From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Mon Oct 23 11:22:13 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 15:22:13 +0000
Subject: Mdiai Keys - volume / play/pause/next...
In-Reply-To: <CAGASioOBRn=eZG36whjurpzgRp4zKL1ZUkMZG9zhF54tt_gfoA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGASioOBRn=eZG36whjurpzgRp4zKL1ZUkMZG9zhF54tt_gfoA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CC425B8D-2602-4D58-AA41-41BD6EABE0AB@iotecdigital.com>

I have in the past was unable to trap a key event for arrow keys. I think Jacque is right I do not think the system deals with arrow keys the way other keys work. They do not send any kind of ascii code, so LC would have to monitor them differently. Does the insert, home page up and page down buttons return anything? If not then I think that validates the idea that LC is only looking for ASCII style events. 

Bob S


> On Oct 20, 2023, at 8:08 AM, David Bovill via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Is there a way to trap for these keyboard events.
> 
> Volume and Media Keys: In the HID standard, volume and media control keys
> often have specific usage IDs. For example:
> 
> 
>   - 0xE9 is for volume up.
>   - 0xEA is for volume down.
>   - 0xE2 is for mute.
>   - 0xCD is for play/pauseetc
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Mon Oct 23 11:33:32 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 15:33:32 +0000
Subject: Mdiai Keys - volume / play/pause/next...
In-Reply-To: <CC425B8D-2602-4D58-AA41-41BD6EABE0AB@iotecdigital.com>
References: <CAGASioOBRn=eZG36whjurpzgRp4zKL1ZUkMZG9zhF54tt_gfoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CC425B8D-2602-4D58-AA41-41BD6EABE0AB@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <E98AB499-F9C9-4DC4-9FA3-69884C11845A@iotecdigital.com>

Whoops! You were talking about media keys of course. I DO get values in a rawKeyUp handler for arrow keys and the others I mentioned. Not for the media keys though. You can just see why. All the other keys are part of a standard ANSI style keyboard. The media keys are not so far as I can tell, as common as it is to have them on a virtually every desktop keyboard these days. 

Bob S


> On Oct 23, 2023, at 8:22 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I have in the past was unable to trap a key event for arrow keys. I think Jacque is right I do not think the system deals with arrow keys the way other keys work. They do not send any kind of ascii code, so LC would have to monitor them differently. Does the insert, home page up and page down buttons return anything? If not then I think that validates the idea that LC is only looking for ASCII style events. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Oct 20, 2023, at 8:08 AM, David Bovill via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Is there a way to trap for these keyboard events.
>> 
>> Volume and Media Keys: In the HID standard, volume and media control keys
>> often have specific usage IDs. For example:
>> 
>> 
>>  - 0xE9 is for volume up.
>>  - 0xEA is for volume down.
>>  - 0xE2 is for mute.
>>  - 0xCD is for play/pauseetc
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Oct 23 11:40:02 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 17:40:02 +0200
Subject: PolyGrid: UNhilite a row?
Message-ID: <D465FDB6-2851-45CF-96DD-B3B9A98ACC5F@major-k.de>

Hi friends,

I cannot UN-hilite a row in a polygrid?!
I tried:
...
set the hilitedrow of widget "index" to "0"
...
set the hilitedrow of widget "index" to 0
...
set the pgHilitedText of widget "index" to ""
...
set the pgHilitedText of widget "index" to EMPTY
...
no dice!?

I use the latest version of the "Widget pack".
Thanks in advance!


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Mon Oct 23 12:50:38 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 12:50:38 -0400
Subject: PolyGrid: UNhilite a row?
In-Reply-To: <D465FDB6-2851-45CF-96DD-B3B9A98ACC5F@major-k.de>
References: <D465FDB6-2851-45CF-96DD-B3B9A98ACC5F@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <CADCoycNb=Wh4cXooHPbPUAzbEKSWRJp1W9LDroqYtmADqvC+2w@mail.gmail.com>

interesting. it works for me. i use the numeric version (set the hilited
row of widget "pg" to 0

On Mon, Oct 23, 2023 at 11:40 AM Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi friends,
>
> I cannot UN-hilite a row in a polygrid?!
> I tried:
> ...
> set the hilitedrow of widget "index" to "0"
> ...
> set the hilitedrow of widget "index" to 0
> ...
> set the pgHilitedText of widget "index" to ""
> ...
> set the pgHilitedText of widget "index" to EMPTY
> ...
> no dice!?
>
> I use the latest version of the "Widget pack".
> Thanks in advance!
>
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Mon Oct 23 12:51:44 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 12:51:44 -0400
Subject: PolyGrid: UNhilite a row?
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycNb=Wh4cXooHPbPUAzbEKSWRJp1W9LDroqYtmADqvC+2w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D465FDB6-2851-45CF-96DD-B3B9A98ACC5F@major-k.de>
 <CADCoycNb=Wh4cXooHPbPUAzbEKSWRJp1W9LDroqYtmADqvC+2w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycMxo2rPAMiRKE5s7uf6HpP0nO7Z19z-_SuN=ouTXGx+Gw@mail.gmail.com>

what event are you setting it in? i have had issues with the widgets not
responding to appearance updates in preopencard, but i don't have a great
recipe for it.

On Mon, Oct 23, 2023 at 12:50 PM Mike Kerner <MikeKerner at roadrunner.com>
wrote:

> interesting. it works for me. i use the numeric version (set the hilited
> row of widget "pg" to 0
>
> On Mon, Oct 23, 2023 at 11:40 AM Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi friends,
>>
>> I cannot UN-hilite a row in a polygrid?!
>> I tried:
>> ...
>> set the hilitedrow of widget "index" to "0"
>> ...
>> set the hilitedrow of widget "index" to 0
>> ...
>> set the pgHilitedText of widget "index" to ""
>> ...
>> set the pgHilitedText of widget "index" to EMPTY
>> ...
>> no dice!?
>>
>> I use the latest version of the "Widget pack".
>> Thanks in advance!
>>
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Klaus
>> --
>> Klaus Major
>> https://www.major-k.de
>> https://www.major-k.de/bass
>> klaus at major-k.de
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>    and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Oct 23 13:03:12 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 19:03:12 +0200
Subject: PolyGrid: UNhilite a row?
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycMxo2rPAMiRKE5s7uf6HpP0nO7Z19z-_SuN=ouTXGx+Gw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D465FDB6-2851-45CF-96DD-B3B9A98ACC5F@major-k.de>
 <CADCoycNb=Wh4cXooHPbPUAzbEKSWRJp1W9LDroqYtmADqvC+2w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADCoycMxo2rPAMiRKE5s7uf6HpP0nO7Z19z-_SuN=ouTXGx+Gw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <16C759D8-CAC4-4429-9A42-6D1865E31DC9@major-k.de>

Hi Mike,

> Am 23.10.2023 um 18:51 schrieb Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> what event are you setting it in? i have had issues with the widgets not
> responding to appearance updates in preopencard, but i don't have a great
> recipe for it.

See here, I have a long list of PDF files and clicking the widget "index" will filter the PDF list with that char.
<https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ygmnzx3s7pvknpbycvi6z/index_polygrid.png?rlkey=c4as77jo96c0e2em3bde9tpk8&dl=0>

Clicking button "A-Z" will the display all the files.
I need to UNhilite the index in that button.

No idea why it does not work? But the workaround does, so problem solved (for me and for now).

> On Mon, Oct 23, 2023 at 12:50 PM Mike Kerner <MikeKerner at roadrunner.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> interesting. it works for me. i use the numeric version (set the hilited
>> row of widget "pg" to 0
>> 
>> On Mon, Oct 23, 2023 at 11:40 AM Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi friends,
>>> 
>>> I cannot UN-hilite a row in a polygrid?!
>>> I tried:
>>> ...
>>> set the hilitedrow of widget "index" to "0"
>>> ...
>>> set the hilitedrow of widget "index" to 0
>>> ...
>>> set the pgHilitedText of widget "index" to ""
>>> ...
>>> set the pgHilitedText of widget "index" to EMPTY
>>> ...
>>> no dice!?
>>> 
>>> I use the latest version of the "Widget pack".
>>> Thanks in advance!

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From ahsoftware at sonic.net  Mon Oct 23 13:08:49 2023
From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 10:08:49 -0700
Subject: PolyGrid: UNhilite a row?
In-Reply-To: <16C759D8-CAC4-4429-9A42-6D1865E31DC9@major-k.de>
References: <D465FDB6-2851-45CF-96DD-B3B9A98ACC5F@major-k.de>
 <CADCoycNb=Wh4cXooHPbPUAzbEKSWRJp1W9LDroqYtmADqvC+2w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADCoycMxo2rPAMiRKE5s7uf6HpP0nO7Z19z-_SuN=ouTXGx+Gw@mail.gmail.com>
 <16C759D8-CAC4-4429-9A42-6D1865E31DC9@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <8c13ed7c-2e28-4d17-b1e6-c5f1590f55e6@sonic.net>

On 10/23/23 10:03, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:

> See here, I have a long list of PDF files and clicking the widget "index" will filter the PDF list with that char.
> <https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ygmnzx3s7pvknpbycvi6z/index_polygrid.png?rlkey=c4as77jo96c0e2em3bde9tpk8&dl=0>

Davy's On The Road Again!
Score points for coolness.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Mon Oct 23 13:09:22 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 13:09:22 -0400
Subject: PolyGrid: UNhilite a row?
In-Reply-To: <16C759D8-CAC4-4429-9A42-6D1865E31DC9@major-k.de>
References: <D465FDB6-2851-45CF-96DD-B3B9A98ACC5F@major-k.de>
 <CADCoycNb=Wh4cXooHPbPUAzbEKSWRJp1W9LDroqYtmADqvC+2w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADCoycMxo2rPAMiRKE5s7uf6HpP0nO7Z19z-_SuN=ouTXGx+Gw@mail.gmail.com>
 <16C759D8-CAC4-4429-9A42-6D1865E31DC9@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <CADCoycOaNG1naKGmmuWX7U2ud+PH1Yu9OczhiU7-03=BSyz9cg@mail.gmail.com>

unfortunately, all i can see is the png file. i can't download the stack to
see what's going on.

On Mon, Oct 23, 2023 at 1:03 PM Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Mike,
>
> > Am 23.10.2023 um 18:51 schrieb Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> >
> > what event are you setting it in? i have had issues with the widgets not
> > responding to appearance updates in preopencard, but i don't have a great
> > recipe for it.
>
> See here, I have a long list of PDF files and clicking the widget "index"
> will filter the PDF list with that char.
> <
> https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ygmnzx3s7pvknpbycvi6z/index_polygrid.png?rlkey=c4as77jo96c0e2em3bde9tpk8&dl=0
> >
>
> Clicking button "A-Z" will the display all the files.
> I need to UNhilite the index in that button.
>
> No idea why it does not work? But the workaround does, so problem solved
> (for me and for now).
>
> > On Mon, Oct 23, 2023 at 12:50 PM Mike Kerner <MikeKerner at roadrunner.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> interesting. it works for me. i use the numeric version (set the hilited
> >> row of widget "pg" to 0
> >>
> >> On Mon, Oct 23, 2023 at 11:40 AM Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi friends,
> >>>
> >>> I cannot UN-hilite a row in a polygrid?!
> >>> I tried:
> >>> ...
> >>> set the hilitedrow of widget "index" to "0"
> >>> ...
> >>> set the hilitedrow of widget "index" to 0
> >>> ...
> >>> set the pgHilitedText of widget "index" to ""
> >>> ...
> >>> set the pgHilitedText of widget "index" to EMPTY
> >>> ...
> >>> no dice!?
> >>>
> >>> I use the latest version of the "Widget pack".
> >>> Thanks in advance!
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
>
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Oct 23 13:10:55 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 19:10:55 +0200
Subject: PolyGrid: UNhilite a row?
In-Reply-To: <8c13ed7c-2e28-4d17-b1e6-c5f1590f55e6@sonic.net>
References: <D465FDB6-2851-45CF-96DD-B3B9A98ACC5F@major-k.de>
 <CADCoycNb=Wh4cXooHPbPUAzbEKSWRJp1W9LDroqYtmADqvC+2w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADCoycMxo2rPAMiRKE5s7uf6HpP0nO7Z19z-_SuN=ouTXGx+Gw@mail.gmail.com>
 <16C759D8-CAC4-4429-9A42-6D1865E31DC9@major-k.de>
 <8c13ed7c-2e28-4d17-b1e6-c5f1590f55e6@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <60E01B49-417E-4926-BC13-AAC676B1FB6D@major-k.de>

Hi Mark,

> Am 23.10.2023 um 19:08 schrieb Mark Wieder via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> On 10/23/23 10:03, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
> 
>> See here, I have a long list of PDF files and clicking the widget "index" will filter the PDF list with that char.
>> <https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ygmnzx3s7pvknpbycvi6z/index_polygrid.png?rlkey=c4as77jo96c0e2em3bde9tpk8&dl=0>
> 
> Davy's On The Road Again!
> Score points for coolness.

thanks! :-)
Yeah, great song!

> -- 
> Mark Wieder
> ahsoftware at gmail.com

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Oct 23 13:12:26 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 19:12:26 +0200
Subject: PolyGrid: UNhilite a row?
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycOaNG1naKGmmuWX7U2ud+PH1Yu9OczhiU7-03=BSyz9cg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D465FDB6-2851-45CF-96DD-B3B9A98ACC5F@major-k.de>
 <CADCoycNb=Wh4cXooHPbPUAzbEKSWRJp1W9LDroqYtmADqvC+2w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADCoycMxo2rPAMiRKE5s7uf6HpP0nO7Z19z-_SuN=ouTXGx+Gw@mail.gmail.com>
 <16C759D8-CAC4-4429-9A42-6D1865E31DC9@major-k.de>
 <CADCoycOaNG1naKGmmuWX7U2ud+PH1Yu9OczhiU7-03=BSyz9cg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6A88B070-4270-4F46-9360-A3568E65F322@major-k.de>

Hi Mike,

> Am 23.10.2023 um 19:09 schrieb Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> unfortunately, all i can see is the png file.

yes, by intention! ;-)

> i can't download the stack to see what's going on.

Sorry, stack is not meant for public...


Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Mon Oct 23 13:15:57 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 13:15:57 -0400
Subject: PolyGrid: UNhilite a row?
In-Reply-To: <6A88B070-4270-4F46-9360-A3568E65F322@major-k.de>
References: <D465FDB6-2851-45CF-96DD-B3B9A98ACC5F@major-k.de>
 <CADCoycNb=Wh4cXooHPbPUAzbEKSWRJp1W9LDroqYtmADqvC+2w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADCoycMxo2rPAMiRKE5s7uf6HpP0nO7Z19z-_SuN=ouTXGx+Gw@mail.gmail.com>
 <16C759D8-CAC4-4429-9A42-6D1865E31DC9@major-k.de>
 <CADCoycOaNG1naKGmmuWX7U2ud+PH1Yu9OczhiU7-03=BSyz9cg@mail.gmail.com>
 <6A88B070-4270-4F46-9360-A3568E65F322@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <CADCoycNekLD+B2+ey7_NZCdCr4Bb5C-XPRoCbEs8hDWA0y2sKQ@mail.gmail.com>

you didn't mention the workaround that you used.
i'm not sure what we're supposed to do with the png since we can't see the
code.

On Mon, Oct 23, 2023 at 1:12 PM Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Mike,
>
> > Am 23.10.2023 um 19:09 schrieb Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> >
> > unfortunately, all i can see is the png file.
>
> yes, by intention! ;-)
>
> > i can't download the stack to see what's going on.
>
> Sorry, stack is not meant for public...
>
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
>
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Oct 23 13:24:48 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 19:24:48 +0200
Subject: PolyGrid: UNhilite a row?
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycNekLD+B2+ey7_NZCdCr4Bb5C-XPRoCbEs8hDWA0y2sKQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D465FDB6-2851-45CF-96DD-B3B9A98ACC5F@major-k.de>
 <CADCoycNb=Wh4cXooHPbPUAzbEKSWRJp1W9LDroqYtmADqvC+2w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADCoycMxo2rPAMiRKE5s7uf6HpP0nO7Z19z-_SuN=ouTXGx+Gw@mail.gmail.com>
 <16C759D8-CAC4-4429-9A42-6D1865E31DC9@major-k.de>
 <CADCoycOaNG1naKGmmuWX7U2ud+PH1Yu9OczhiU7-03=BSyz9cg@mail.gmail.com>
 <6A88B070-4270-4F46-9360-A3568E65F322@major-k.de>
 <CADCoycNekLD+B2+ey7_NZCdCr4Bb5C-XPRoCbEs8hDWA0y2sKQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <22BD2C99-1A09-42AA-91C2-B0315AC0136B@major-k.de>

Hi Mike,

> Am 23.10.2023 um 19:15 schrieb Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> you didn't mention the workaround that you used.

I wrote earlier in this thread:
...
click at the topleft of widget "index"
...
That does the trick for me and UNhilited the widget.

> i'm not sure what we're supposed to do with the png since we can't see the
> code.

>> Am 23.10.2023 um 18:51 schrieb Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> what event are you setting it in? ...

So gave him an impression of how my layout and polygrids look like and where 
I want to UNhilte the index.

I tried had:
...
set the hilitedrow of widget "index" to "0"
...
set the hilitedrow of widget "index" to 0
...
set the pgHilitedText of widget "index" to ""
...
set the pgHilitedText of widget "index" to EMPTY
...
no dice!?


Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Oct 23 15:45:11 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 14:45:11 -0500
Subject: ANDROID player won't play MP3 from server but locally?
In-Reply-To: <5DE2B35A-B785-4D51-85CF-737E8A7DFA13@major-k.de>
References: <5DE2B35A-B785-4D51-85CF-737E8A7DFA13@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <8856c056-ddea-4024-875b-fb6fc286ee38@hyperactivesw.com>

On 10/22/23 7:34 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
> I'm having problems to play a MP3 (5 MB) from my server. And yes, I waited up to a minute 
> before I closed the app. Works fine when I play it locally.


Below is the script I use for mobile players. It's old so things may be different now, but if I 
remember right I had to check playerPropertyAvailable for the duration to be sure the player 
had enough content to start playing.


on createMobileAudioPlayer pURL, pPlayerName
   -- pURL = remote video or audio file
   -- pPlayerName = name of player to create; if empty uses LC-assigned ID
   if sPlayerID is in mobileControls() then mobileControlDelete sPlayerID -- init
   if pPlayerName = "" then
     mobileControlCreate "player"
     put the result into sPlayerId
   else
     mobileControlCreate "player",pPlayerName
     put pPlayerName into sPlayerID
   end if
   mobileControlSet sPlayerId, "rect", getPlayerRect() -- can use a literal rect instead
   mobileControlSet sPlayerId, "showController", true
   mobileControlSet sPlayerId, "filename", pURL
   mobileControlSet sPlayerId, "visible", true
   if pURL begins with "http" then
     mobileBusyIndicatorStart "square", "Loading..." -- add loading indicator until duration is 
available
   end if
end createMobileAudioPlayer

on playerPropertyAvailable pProperty -- msg sent when enough content is loaded
   if pProperty is "duration" then
     mobileBusyIndicatorStop -- Remove the "Loading..." indicator and start playing
     mobileControlDo sPlayerId, "play"
   end if
end playerPropertyAvailable

on setMobileAudioPlayer pPlayerName,pState -- control the state of the mobile player
   -- pState = "pause", "play", or "stop"
   if pPlayerName is not among the lines of mobileControls() then exit setMobileAudioPlayer
   mobileControlDo pPlayerName, pState
   if pState = "stop" then
     mobileBusyIndicatorStop -- in case it's still showing
     mobileControlSet pPlayerName, "visible", false
     mobileControlDelete pPlayerName
   end if
end setMobileAudioPlayer

on playerFinished -- sent on mobile when audio is done
   setMobileAudioPlayer "stop"
end playerFinished

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Oct 23 15:52:25 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 21:52:25 +0200
Subject: ANDROID player won't play MP3 from server but locally?
In-Reply-To: <8856c056-ddea-4024-875b-fb6fc286ee38@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <5DE2B35A-B785-4D51-85CF-737E8A7DFA13@major-k.de>
 <8856c056-ddea-4024-875b-fb6fc286ee38@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <854B895F-20A9-485E-99BE-D9621A2CBFBF@major-k.de>

Hi Jacque,

wonderful, thank you very much!
Will test this and report back.

> Am 23.10.2023 um 21:45 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> On 10/22/23 7:34 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>> I'm having problems to play a MP3 (5 MB) from my server. And yes, I waited up to a minute before I closed the app. Works fine when I play it locally.
> 
> 
> Below is the script I use for mobile players. It's old so things may be different now, but if I remember right I had to check playerPropertyAvailable for the duration to be sure the player had enough content to start playing.
> 
> on createMobileAudioPlayer pURL, pPlayerName
>  -- pURL = remote video or audio file
>  -- pPlayerName = name of player to create; if empty uses LC-assigned ID
>  if sPlayerID is in mobileControls() then mobileControlDelete sPlayerID -- init
>  if pPlayerName = "" then
>    mobileControlCreate "player"
>    put the result into sPlayerId
>  else
>    mobileControlCreate "player",pPlayerName
>    put pPlayerName into sPlayerID
>  end if
>  mobileControlSet sPlayerId, "rect", getPlayerRect() -- can use a literal rect instead
>  mobileControlSet sPlayerId, "showController", true
>  mobileControlSet sPlayerId, "filename", pURL
>  mobileControlSet sPlayerId, "visible", true
>  if pURL begins with "http" then
>    mobileBusyIndicatorStart "square", "Loading..." -- add loading indicator until duration is available
>  end if
> end createMobileAudioPlayer
> 
> on playerPropertyAvailable pProperty -- msg sent when enough content is loaded
>  if pProperty is "duration" then
>    mobileBusyIndicatorStop -- Remove the "Loading..." indicator and start playing
>    mobileControlDo sPlayerId, "play"
>  end if
> end playerPropertyAvailable
> 
> on setMobileAudioPlayer pPlayerName,pState -- control the state of the mobile player
>  -- pState = "pause", "play", or "stop"
>  if pPlayerName is not among the lines of mobileControls() then exit setMobileAudioPlayer
>  mobileControlDo pPlayerName, pState
>  if pState = "stop" then
>    mobileBusyIndicatorStop -- in case it's still showing
>    mobileControlSet pPlayerName, "visible", false
>    mobileControlDelete pPlayerName
>  end if
> end setMobileAudioPlayer
> 
> on playerFinished -- sent on mobile when audio is done
>  setMobileAudioPlayer "stop"
> end playerFinished
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From paul at researchware.com  Tue Oct 24 13:00:25 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2023 13:00:25 -0400
Subject: Oddity in 'currentCard' function?
Message-ID: <eaf3e2d1-542e-4f54-a14d-c37c3059a1ac@researchware.com>

I think I found a oddity in the "currentCard" property.

The documentation states that the currentCard property return the short 
name of the current card of a stack:

for example: put the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" into tCardName

You can then execute code such as: set the myProperty of cd tCardName of 
stack "Untitled 1" to tValue

However, if the card does not have a name set, then current card returns 
"card id <idnumber>", example: card id 1002 and the above 2 lines of 
code return a runtime error of 'can't find card'

put the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" into tCardName
set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue

WORKS for cards with a name
FAILS for cards without a name (where currentCard returns 'card id <number')

I think currentCard should just return 'id 1002' rather than 'card id 
1002' if a card has no name.

Trying to execute: set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 
1" to tValue WHEN tCardName contain 'card id 1002' produces a run time error

But trying to execute: set the myProperty of cd id 1002 of stack 
"Untitled 1" to tValue works.

Oddly, set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 1" to 
tValue FAILS if tCardName contains "id 10001" (and yes that card with 
that ID exists)

Oddly again, set the myProperty of the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" 
to tValue DOES WORK whether they have a name or not

But again, breaking that example above (set the myProperty of the 
currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue) into 2 lines:
put the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" into tCardName
set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue
FAILS if the card has no name.

Something just seems off here?


From craig at starfirelighting.com  Tue Oct 24 13:59:53 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2023 13:59:53 -0400
Subject: Oddity in 'currentCard' function?
In-Reply-To: <eaf3e2d1-542e-4f54-a14d-c37c3059a1ac@researchware.com>
References: <eaf3e2d1-542e-4f54-a14d-c37c3059a1ac@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <1D46D0DC-CE13-43EB-A585-9B2F0238DE0F@starfirelighting.com>

Paul.

Having a more complete description seems right to me. You are essentially saying that if you use the moniker “the currentCard” that LC should know what you are intending, the is, the current “card”, and not the current “something else”.

It has to be one of those cases where, as Danny Goodman once said, “If a line of code seem like it ought to work but does not, try using a “do” construction to force another layer of resolution;

on mouseUp
put the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" into tCardName

do "set the myProperty of" && tCardName && "to tValue"

end mouseUp

This works, and shows that the referencing of these sorts of things in LC, like in HC, is not quite as they read like.

Craig


> On Oct 24, 2023, at 1:00 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I think I found a oddity in the "currentCard" property.
> 
> The documentation states that the currentCard property return the short name of the current card of a stack:
> 
> for example: put the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" into tCardName
> 
> You can then execute code such as: set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue
> 
> However, if the card does not have a name set, then current card returns "card id <idnumber>", example: card id 1002 and the above 2 lines of code return a runtime error of 'can't find card'
> 
> put the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" into tCardName
> set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue
> 
> WORKS for cards with a name
> FAILS for cards without a name (where currentCard returns 'card id <number')
> 
> I think currentCard should just return 'id 1002' rather than 'card id 1002' if a card has no name.
> 
> Trying to execute: set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue WHEN tCardName contain 'card id 1002' produces a run time error
> 
> But trying to execute: set the myProperty of cd id 1002 of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue works.
> 
> Oddly, set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue FAILS if tCardName contains "id 10001" (and yes that card with that ID exists)
> 
> Oddly again, set the myProperty of the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue DOES WORK whether they have a name or not
> 
> But again, breaking that example above (set the myProperty of the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue) into 2 lines:
> put the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" into tCardName
> set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue
> FAILS if the card has no name.
> 
> Something just seems off here?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From craig at starfirelighting.com  Tue Oct 24 14:04:32 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2023 14:04:32 -0400
Subject: Oddity in 'currentCard' function?
In-Reply-To: <1D46D0DC-CE13-43EB-A585-9B2F0238DE0F@starfirelighting.com>
References: <eaf3e2d1-542e-4f54-a14d-c37c3059a1ac@researchware.com>
 <1D46D0DC-CE13-43EB-A585-9B2F0238DE0F@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <9DA0CA3F-0203-4A95-8B25-27B6E783F8AF@starfirelighting.com>

NitPicking within myself, but I have always isolated variables in “do” constructions:
do "set the myProperty of" && tCardName && "to" && tValue

Craig

> On Oct 24, 2023, at 1:59 PM, Craig Newman <craig at starfirelighting.com> wrote:
> 
> Paul.
> 
> Having a more complete description seems right to me. You are essentially saying that if you use the moniker “the currentCard” that LC should know what you are intending, the is, the current “card”, and not the current “something else”.
> 
> It has to be one of those cases where, as Danny Goodman once said, “If a line of code seem like it ought to work but does not, try using a “do” construction to force another layer of resolution;
> 
> on mouseUp
> put the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" into tCardName
> 
> do "set the myProperty of" && tCardName && "to tValue"
> 
> end mouseUp
> 
> This works, and shows that the referencing of these sorts of things in LC, like in HC, is not quite as they read like.
> 
> Craig
> 
> 
>> On Oct 24, 2023, at 1:00 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I think I found a oddity in the "currentCard" property.
>> 
>> The documentation states that the currentCard property return the short name of the current card of a stack:
>> 
>> for example: put the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" into tCardName
>> 
>> You can then execute code such as: set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue
>> 
>> However, if the card does not have a name set, then current card returns "card id <idnumber>", example: card id 1002 and the above 2 lines of code return a runtime error of 'can't find card'
>> 
>> put the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" into tCardName
>> set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue
>> 
>> WORKS for cards with a name
>> FAILS for cards without a name (where currentCard returns 'card id <number')
>> 
>> I think currentCard should just return 'id 1002' rather than 'card id 1002' if a card has no name.
>> 
>> Trying to execute: set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue WHEN tCardName contain 'card id 1002' produces a run time error
>> 
>> But trying to execute: set the myProperty of cd id 1002 of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue works.
>> 
>> Oddly, set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue FAILS if tCardName contains "id 10001" (and yes that card with that ID exists)
>> 
>> Oddly again, set the myProperty of the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue DOES WORK whether they have a name or not
>> 
>> But again, breaking that example above (set the myProperty of the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue) into 2 lines:
>> put the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" into tCardName
>> set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue
>> FAILS if the card has no name.
>> 
>> Something just seems off here?
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Oct 24 15:21:43 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2023 14:21:43 -0500
Subject: Oddity in 'currentCard' function?
In-Reply-To: <eaf3e2d1-542e-4f54-a14d-c37c3059a1ac@researchware.com>
References: <eaf3e2d1-542e-4f54-a14d-c37c3059a1ac@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <2096ce28-a8f4-4dd0-9f6d-f17fe5f10450@hyperactivesw.com>

The behavior is consistent with all cards or controls that don't have a name. The "name" is the 
ID in that case. The best way around it is to:

   put the long id of <the object or card> into tID

That way you can refer to tID without worrying whether there's a literal name or not. So:

   put the long ID of the currentCard into tID
   set the myProperty of tID to tValue


On 10/24/23 12:00 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
> I think I found a oddity in the "currentCard" property.
> 
> The documentation states that the currentCard property return the short name of the current 
> card of a stack:
> 
> for example: put the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" into tCardName
> 
> You can then execute code such as: set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 1" to 
> tValue
> 
> However, if the card does not have a name set, then current card returns "card id <idnumber>", 
> example: card id 1002 and the above 2 lines of code return a runtime error of 'can't find card'
> 
> put the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" into tCardName
> set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue
> 
> WORKS for cards with a name
> FAILS for cards without a name (where currentCard returns 'card id <number')
> 
> I think currentCard should just return 'id 1002' rather than 'card id 1002' if a card has no name.
> 
> Trying to execute: set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue WHEN 
> tCardName contain 'card id 1002' produces a run time error
> 
> But trying to execute: set the myProperty of cd id 1002 of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue works.
> 
> Oddly, set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue FAILS if tCardName 
> contains "id 10001" (and yes that card with that ID exists)
> 
> Oddly again, set the myProperty of the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue DOES WORK 
> whether they have a name or not
> 
> But again, breaking that example above (set the myProperty of the currentCard of stack 
> "Untitled 1" to tValue) into 2 lines:
> put the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" into tCardName
> set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue
> FAILS if the card has no name.
> 
> Something just seems off here?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From brian at milby7.com  Tue Oct 24 20:44:31 2023
From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2023 20:44:31 -0400
Subject: drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) always BLACK
In-Reply-To: <8B45151C-1CBB-46D8-878D-141CFD47E99D@major-k.de>
References: <d7923bda0ded5b61113426a38c301ec2@livecode.com>
 <91CD3240-9439-4877-81AD-9F1B83E0F718@milby7.com>
 <8B45151C-1CBB-46D8-878D-141CFD47E99D@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <CA+yhkRbJegWOd85MijEZpcJGyvY4RPjy0C5XsbdBDTweBOgNCA@mail.gmail.com>

Well, it sure took me a while to get around to this.  I guess better late
than never though.  Not sure where the best place to put it, so I just
added it to my lc-misc repo on GitHub.  You can find the code here:
https://github.com/bwmilby/lc-misc/tree/master/IconDrawingLibrary

Thanks,
Brian

On Wed, Apr 6, 2022 at 3:20 PM Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Brian,
>
> > Am 06.04.2022 um 21:18 schrieb Brian Milby via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> >
> > I guess I need to make an update to this library :)
>
> yo, that would be cool! :-)
>
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Apr 6, 2022, at 1:28 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> On 2022-04-06 18:16, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
> >>> Hi all,
> >>> so sorry, looks like I completely f..... up here.
> >>> Sorry for the confusion, not may day...
> >>> See:
> >>> <https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23665>
> >>
> >> Hehe - no worries.
> >>
> >> So in answer to your original query about wanting to be able to color
> the icons - the drawing library supports the 'currentColor' attribute in
> SVG - and this is tied to the 'backgroundColor' property of the image
> object the drawing is set on.
> >>
> >> It would only take a small tweak to Brian's extension to make this work
> - adding `fill="currentColor"` to the path node it generates.
> >>
> >> Brian's extension works by fetching the path data from the IconSVG
> library, wrapping it in the necessary SVG XML, and then compiling it with
> drawingSvgCompile.
> >>
> >> Irksomely, there does not seem to be any support for marking colors in
> SVGs as 'currentColor' in any SVG editor we've come across (unless its
> deeply buried in it). So one strategy there is making sure the colors you
> want to be configurable in the SVG are set to a known unlikely random color
> (e.g. #ABCDEF), exporting as SVG XML from the editor and then just doing a
> global find/replace of (e.g.) #ABCDEF with currentColor.
> >>
> >> Warmest Regards,
> >>
> >> Mark.
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
>
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From mark at livecode.com  Wed Oct 25 00:34:53 2023
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2023 05:34:53 +0100
Subject: Oddity in 'currentCard' function?
In-Reply-To: <eaf3e2d1-542e-4f54-a14d-c37c3059a1ac@researchware.com>
References: <eaf3e2d1-542e-4f54-a14d-c37c3059a1ac@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <efb31369983cde73d27e0655ec6897c4@livecode.com>

On 2023-10-24 18:00, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
> I think I found a oddity in the "currentCard" property.
> 
> The documentation states that the currentCard property return the short 
> name of the current card of a stack:
> 
> for example: put the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" into tCardName
> 
> You can then execute code such as: set the myProperty of cd tCardName 
> of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue

...

> But again, breaking that example above (set the myProperty of the 
> currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue) into 2 lines:
> put the currentCard of stack "Untitled 1" into tCardName
> set the myProperty of cd tCardName of stack "Untitled 1" to tValue
> FAILS if the card has no name.
> 
> Something just seems off here?

As Jacque said, if an object has an empty name then the short name 
returns `<chunk> id <id>` (i.e. an id chunk) - this is long standing 
behavior and one which I'm not sure is entirely helpful (it should 
perhaps just return empty!).

You see the same effect in other properties which return a 'short name' 
- e.g. the menubar of a stack. So its entirely consistent with 'object 
name' properties. (In these cases there is no string which such 
properties could return which would help distinguish unnamed things and 
that could be used to resolve them in some sort of chunk in a consistent 
manner as object names can be arbitrary strings).

If you want to do stuff with the current card of a stack, then don't use 
the currentCard property - 'this card of stack ...' *is* a chunk 
reference and thus it doesn't care whether the card has a name or not.

If you want the long id of the current card of a stack to manipulate 
'out of context' then use the long id:

    put the long id of this card of stack ... into tCardId

Of course, if you really want to use the currentCard (for whatever 
reason), then you need to make sure all your cards have names (which to 
be fair, is a good habit to get into - as is naming all objects with 
some, unique, name!).

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things


From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Wed Oct 25 04:35:33 2023
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2023 11:35:33 +0300
Subject: drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) always BLACK
In-Reply-To: <CA+yhkRbJegWOd85MijEZpcJGyvY4RPjy0C5XsbdBDTweBOgNCA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d7923bda0ded5b61113426a38c301ec2@livecode.com>
 <91CD3240-9439-4877-81AD-9F1B83E0F718@milby7.com>
 <8B45151C-1CBB-46D8-878D-141CFD47E99D@major-k.de>
 <CA+yhkRbJegWOd85MijEZpcJGyvY4RPjy0C5XsbdBDTweBOgNCA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b753cafd-d6bb-4db8-b0b7-5839d69c3a24@gmail.com>

I should be grateful if you could explain the licensing on your work.

Best, Richmond.

On 25.10.23 3:44, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote:
> Well, it sure took me a while to get around to this.  I guess better late
> than never though.  Not sure where the best place to put it, so I just
> added it to my lc-misc repo on GitHub.  You can find the code here:
> https://github.com/bwmilby/lc-misc/tree/master/IconDrawingLibrary
>
> Thanks,
> Brian
>
> On Wed, Apr 6, 2022 at 3:20PM Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Brian,
>>
>>> Am 06.04.2022 um 21:18 schrieb Brian Milby via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> I guess I need to make an update to this library :)
>> yo, that would be cool! :-)
>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Apr 6, 2022, at 1:28 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2022-04-06 18:16, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>> so sorry, looks like I completely f..... up here.
>>>>> Sorry for the confusion, not may day...
>>>>> See:
>>>>> <https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23665>
>>>> Hehe - no worries.
>>>>
>>>> So in answer to your original query about wanting to be able to color
>> the icons - the drawing library supports the 'currentColor' attribute in
>> SVG - and this is tied to the 'backgroundColor' property of the image
>> object the drawing is set on.
>>>> It would only take a small tweak to Brian's extension to make this work
>> - adding `fill="currentColor"` to the path node it generates.
>>>> Brian's extension works by fetching the path data from the IconSVG
>> library, wrapping it in the necessary SVG XML, and then compiling it with
>> drawingSvgCompile.
>>>> Irksomely, there does not seem to be any support for marking colors in
>> SVGs as 'currentColor' in any SVG editor we've come across (unless its
>> deeply buried in it). So one strategy there is making sure the colors you
>> want to be configurable in the SVG are set to a known unlikely random color
>> (e.g. #ABCDEF), exporting as SVG XML from the editor and then just doing a
>> global find/replace of (e.g.) #ABCDEF with currentColor.
>>>> Warmest Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Mark.
>> Best
>>
>> Klaus
>>
>> --
>> Klaus Major
>> https://www.major-k.de
>> https://www.major-k.de/bass
>> klaus at major-k.de
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From paul at researchware.com  Wed Oct 25 08:57:26 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2023 08:57:26 -0400
Subject: Oddity in 'currentCard' function?
In-Reply-To: <efb31369983cde73d27e0655ec6897c4@livecode.com>
References: <eaf3e2d1-542e-4f54-a14d-c37c3059a1ac@researchware.com>
 <efb31369983cde73d27e0655ec6897c4@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <b19be346-edf3-4e90-af5f-430817a15680@researchware.com>

On 10/25/2023 12:34 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:
>
> If you want to do stuff with the current card of a stack, then don't 
> use the currentCard property - 'this card of stack ...' *is* a chunk 
> reference and thus it doesn't care whether the card has a name or not.
>

Okay, I get that <object> id <number> is a legacy return value when 
there is no name.

I'd just like to confirm that:

this card of stack "X"
and
the currentCard of stack "X"

refer to the same card, even if in different ways (actual object 
reference vs short name)?

If so, I will switch to using "this card of stack". I had thought that 
the 'this card' was always the card in the object hierarchy of the 
object the script was running in and had forgotten that you could say 
'this card of stack ...' to reference the active card in another stack.



From brian at milby7.com  Wed Oct 25 10:15:23 2023
From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2023 10:15:23 -0400
Subject: drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) always BLACK
In-Reply-To: <b753cafd-d6bb-4db8-b0b7-5839d69c3a24@gmail.com>
References: <b753cafd-d6bb-4db8-b0b7-5839d69c3a24@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ADAC759A-1F11-4328-A125-518E18FFD68D@milby7.com>

This code is MIT license, so freely usable.  It does rely on code from HQ, but should be usable on either the open source or commercial versions.

Brian Milby
brian at milby7.com

> On Oct 25, 2023, at 4:36 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I should be grateful if you could explain the licensing on your work.
> 
> Best, Richmond.
> 
>> On 25.10.23 3:44, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote:
>> Well, it sure took me a while to get around to this.  I guess better late
>> than never though.  Not sure where the best place to put it, so I just
>> added it to my lc-misc repo on GitHub.  You can find the code here:
>> https://github.com/bwmilby/lc-misc/tree/master/IconDrawingLibrary
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Brian
>> 
>> On Wed, Apr 6, 2022 at 3:20 PM Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Brian,
>>> 
>>>> Am 06.04.2022 um 21:18 schrieb Brian Milby via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>> I guess I need to make an update to this library :)
>>> yo, that would be cool! :-)
>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On Apr 6, 2022, at 1:28 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 2022-04-06 18:16, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>> so sorry, looks like I completely f..... up here.
>>>>>> Sorry for the confusion, not may day...
>>>>>> See:
>>>>>> <https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23665>
>>>>> Hehe - no worries.
>>>>> 
>>>>> So in answer to your original query about wanting to be able to color
>>> the icons - the drawing library supports the 'currentColor' attribute in
>>> SVG - and this is tied to the 'backgroundColor' property of the image
>>> object the drawing is set on.
>>>>> It would only take a small tweak to Brian's extension to make this work
>>> - adding `fill="currentColor"` to the path node it generates.
>>>>> Brian's extension works by fetching the path data from the IconSVG
>>> library, wrapping it in the necessary SVG XML, and then compiling it with
>>> drawingSvgCompile.
>>>>> Irksomely, there does not seem to be any support for marking colors in
>>> SVGs as 'currentColor' in any SVG editor we've come across (unless its
>>> deeply buried in it). So one strategy there is making sure the colors you
>>> want to be configurable in the SVG are set to a known unlikely random color
>>> (e.g. #ABCDEF), exporting as SVG XML from the editor and then just doing a
>>> global find/replace of (e.g.) #ABCDEF with currentColor.
>>>>> Warmest Regards,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Mark.
>>> Best
>>> 
>>> Klaus
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Klaus Major
>>> https://www.major-k.de
>>> https://www.major-k.de/bass
>>> klaus at major-k.de
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From craig at starfirelighting.com  Wed Oct 25 10:41:23 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2023 10:41:23 -0400
Subject: Oddity in 'currentCard' function?
In-Reply-To: <b19be346-edf3-4e90-af5f-430817a15680@researchware.com>
References: <eaf3e2d1-542e-4f54-a14d-c37c3059a1ac@researchware.com>
 <efb31369983cde73d27e0655ec6897c4@livecode.com>
 <b19be346-edf3-4e90-af5f-430817a15680@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <4384447E-5A17-4E77-A579-47BAE284574E@starfirelighting.com>

Paul.

The construction "answer this card of stack “X” does not work if you are not on stack “X”:

answer the  currentCard of stack  “X”  —works

answer the name of this card of stack “X —works

answer this card of stack “X”—Nope



Craig




> On Oct 25, 2023, at 8:57 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> On 10/25/2023 12:34 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:
>> 
>> If you want to do stuff with the current card of a stack, then don't use the currentCard property - 'this card of stack ...' *is* a chunk reference and thus it doesn't care whether the card has a name or not.
>> 
> 
> Okay, I get that <object> id <number> is a legacy return value when there is no name.
> 
> I'd just like to confirm that:
> 
> this card of stack "X"
> and
> the currentCard of stack "X"
> 
> refer to the same card, even if in different ways (actual object reference vs short name)?
> 
> If so, I will switch to using "this card of stack". I had thought that the 'this card' was always the card in the object hierarchy of the object the script was running in and had forgotten that you could say 'this card of stack ...' to reference the active card in another stack.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Wed Oct 25 14:34:24 2023
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2023 21:34:24 +0300
Subject: drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) always BLACK
In-Reply-To: <ADAC759A-1F11-4328-A125-518E18FFD68D@milby7.com>
References: <b753cafd-d6bb-4db8-b0b7-5839d69c3a24@gmail.com>
 <ADAC759A-1F11-4328-A125-518E18FFD68D@milby7.com>
Message-ID: <72ed615d-524b-45e9-8962-d8ba79b9121d@gmail.com>

Thank you very much.

Best, Richmond.

On 25.10.23 17:15, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote:
> This code is MIT license, so freely usable.  It does rely on code from HQ, but should be usable on either the open source or commercial versions.
>
> Brian Milby
> brian at milby7.com
>
>> On Oct 25, 2023, at 4:36 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> I should be grateful if you could explain the licensing on your work.
>>
>> Best, Richmond.
>>
>>> On 25.10.23 3:44, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Well, it sure took me a while to get around to this.  I guess better late
>>> than never though.  Not sure where the best place to put it, so I just
>>> added it to my lc-misc repo on GitHub.  You can find the code here:
>>> https://github.com/bwmilby/lc-misc/tree/master/IconDrawingLibrary
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Brian
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 6, 2022 at 3:20PM Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Brian,
>>>>
>>>>> Am 06.04.2022 um 21:18 schrieb Brian Milby via use-livecode <
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>>> I guess I need to make an update to this library :)
>>>> yo, that would be cool! :-)
>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Apr 6, 2022, at 1:28 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2022-04-06 18:16, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>> so sorry, looks like I completely f..... up here.
>>>>>>> Sorry for the confusion, not may day...
>>>>>>> See:
>>>>>>> <https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23665>
>>>>>> Hehe - no worries.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So in answer to your original query about wanting to be able to color
>>>> the icons - the drawing library supports the 'currentColor' attribute in
>>>> SVG - and this is tied to the 'backgroundColor' property of the image
>>>> object the drawing is set on.
>>>>>> It would only take a small tweak to Brian's extension to make this work
>>>> - adding `fill="currentColor"` to the path node it generates.
>>>>>> Brian's extension works by fetching the path data from the IconSVG
>>>> library, wrapping it in the necessary SVG XML, and then compiling it with
>>>> drawingSvgCompile.
>>>>>> Irksomely, there does not seem to be any support for marking colors in
>>>> SVGs as 'currentColor' in any SVG editor we've come across (unless its
>>>> deeply buried in it). So one strategy there is making sure the colors you
>>>> want to be configurable in the SVG are set to a known unlikely random color
>>>> (e.g. #ABCDEF), exporting as SVG XML from the editor and then just doing a
>>>> global find/replace of (e.g.) #ABCDEF with currentColor.
>>>>>> Warmest Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mark.
>>>> Best
>>>>
>>>> Klaus
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Klaus Major
>>>> https://www.major-k.de
>>>> https://www.major-k.de/bass
>>>> klaus at major-k.de
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From mark at livecode.com  Thu Oct 26 04:40:11 2023
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2023 09:40:11 +0100
Subject: Oddity in 'currentCard' function?
In-Reply-To: <4384447E-5A17-4E77-A579-47BAE284574E@starfirelighting.com>
References: <eaf3e2d1-542e-4f54-a14d-c37c3059a1ac@researchware.com>
 <efb31369983cde73d27e0655ec6897c4@livecode.com>
 <b19be346-edf3-4e90-af5f-430817a15680@researchware.com>
 <4384447E-5A17-4E77-A579-47BAE284574E@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <2e27e8675af64c5959564a1d0bf5e79c@livecode.com>

On 2023-10-25 15:41, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote:
> Paul.
> 
> The construction "answer this card of stack X does not work if you 
> are not on stack X:
> 
> answer the  currentCard of stack  X  works
> 
> answer the name of this card of stack X works
> 
> answer this card of stack XNope

'this card of this stack' is an object reference - when evaluated in 
contexts which don't expect an object reference, object references 
return the *content* of the object, or an error (if the object has no 
content)... Only buttons and fields have content - in which case 
evaluating them returns the 'text' of the object.

Most things *don't* expect an object reference - places that do are 
where an object needs to be acted on, rather than a value being needed.

For example:

   set the X of <object-reference>
   put exists(<object-reference>)
   put there is an <object-reference>
   answer <string>

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things


From mark at livecode.com  Thu Oct 26 04:44:55 2023
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2023 09:44:55 +0100
Subject: Oddity in 'currentCard' function?
In-Reply-To: <b19be346-edf3-4e90-af5f-430817a15680@researchware.com>
References: <eaf3e2d1-542e-4f54-a14d-c37c3059a1ac@researchware.com>
 <efb31369983cde73d27e0655ec6897c4@livecode.com>
 <b19be346-edf3-4e90-af5f-430817a15680@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <f4440114f151d6ceb32d6f4afa4ffe7c@livecode.com>

On 2023-10-25 13:57, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
> On 10/25/2023 12:34 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:
>> 
>> If you want to do stuff with the current card of a stack, then don't 
>> use the currentCard property - 'this card of stack ...' *is* a chunk 
>> reference and thus it doesn't care whether the card has a name or not.
>> 
> 
> Okay, I get that <object> id <number> is a legacy return value when 
> there is no name.
> 
> I'd just like to confirm that:
> 
> this card of stack "X"
> and
> the currentCard of stack "X"
> 
> refer to the same card, even if in different ways (actual object 
> reference vs short name)?

Yes - 'the currentCard of stack "X"' is equivalent to 'the short name of 
this card of stack X'.

The currentCard property was added a very long time ago to be used by a 
project which never saw the light of day (I'm not sure I remember what 
it was now!)...

There was (apparently!) a need at that time to be able to switch cards 
in a stack *without* the stack coming to front (which is what happens 
when you use the only alternative 'go card ... of stack').

It was added as a property as that was the quickest/fastest way to do 
so, for something which I don't remember being entirely convinced by at 
the time - it wasn't documented for a long time, but then I think 
someone asked about it and it had been there long enough and it doesn't 
do any harm really so it was documented.

Basically, its main use was for changing card (i.e. as a settable 
property); rather than finding out what card was current (since that was 
already catered for via interrogating 'this card of this stack').

With hindsight, if the ability to switch cards without bringing the 
stack to front is indeed useful then it should probably be provided via 
a new command, or an augmentation of the 'go' command (like we have go 
visible / go invisible).

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things


From paul at researchware.com  Thu Oct 26 07:37:30 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2023 07:37:30 -0400
Subject: Oddity in 'currentCard' function?
In-Reply-To: <f4440114f151d6ceb32d6f4afa4ffe7c@livecode.com>
References: <eaf3e2d1-542e-4f54-a14d-c37c3059a1ac@researchware.com>
 <efb31369983cde73d27e0655ec6897c4@livecode.com>
 <b19be346-edf3-4e90-af5f-430817a15680@researchware.com>
 <f4440114f151d6ceb32d6f4afa4ffe7c@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <ad6d2436-f02f-4ec0-9bf8-b1085370c599@researchware.com>

On 10/26/2023 4:44 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:
> Basically, its [currentCard] main use was for changing card (i.e. as a 
> settable property); rather than finding out what card was current 
> (since that was already catered for via interrogating 'this card of 
> this stack'). 

FYI - this is exactly what we use currentCard for in our application - 
change the card that will be displayed when a user shows/opens a stack 
to match a change in user data when the stack is not actually open yet.


From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Oct 26 10:56:37 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2023 16:56:37 +0200
Subject: some mobilecontrolprops do not work on Android?
Message-ID: <0C24DFA6-64EB-4ABC-B76B-755F82D1D96C@major-k.de>

Hi friends,

I (now successfully :) create a player for MP3 playback,
however some properties do not seem to work on Android,
although the Dictionary states otherwise!?
----------------------------------------------
 mobilecontrolCreate "player", "mplayer"
 mobileControlSet "mplayer", "visible", TRUE
 mobileControlSet "mplayer", "rect", (the rect of grc "player")

## Does nothing:
 mobileControlSet "mplayer", "backgroundcolor", "213,143,116"
   
 mobileControlSet "mplayer", "showController", TRUE
 mobileControlSet "mplayer", "filename", tURL
 
## Whatever I set here, on Android I always get a black rect with 
## the player controls inside of it.
 mobileControlSet "mplayer", "opaque", FALSE

## Whatever value I enter here, nothing will change the apprearance
 mobileControlSet "mplayer", "alpha", 127
----------------------------------------------
Before I report this, is this a dictionary bug or what?
Or is it just me again? :-D


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From ahsoftware at sonic.net  Thu Oct 26 12:17:36 2023
From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2023 09:17:36 -0700
Subject: Oddity in 'currentCard' function?
In-Reply-To: <f4440114f151d6ceb32d6f4afa4ffe7c@livecode.com>
References: <eaf3e2d1-542e-4f54-a14d-c37c3059a1ac@researchware.com>
 <efb31369983cde73d27e0655ec6897c4@livecode.com>
 <b19be346-edf3-4e90-af5f-430817a15680@researchware.com>
 <f4440114f151d6ceb32d6f4afa4ffe7c@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <bf4111f4-4933-4779-ad81-f4c4bf7f5210@sonic.net>

On 10/26/23 01:44, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:

> Basically, its main use was for changing card (i.e. as a settable 
> property); rather than finding out what card was current (since that was 
> already catered for via interrogating 'this card of this stack').

So basically to stay out of trouble "currentcard" should be thought of 
as a write-only property?

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Oct 26 15:14:24 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2023 14:14:24 -0500
Subject: some mobilecontrolprops do not work on Android?
In-Reply-To: <0C24DFA6-64EB-4ABC-B76B-755F82D1D96C@major-k.de>
References: <0C24DFA6-64EB-4ABC-B76B-755F82D1D96C@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <89cef04a-ca0f-4a44-9e16-a894af804278@hyperactivesw.com>

The backgroundColor and alpha settings might be a dictionary error. The opaque setting says it 
is available only for iOS.

I think the appearance of mobile players is set directly by the OS now, so the color and 
transparency may not be available on Android.

On 10/26/23 9:56 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi friends,
> 
> I (now successfully :) create a player for MP3 playback,
> however some properties do not seem to work on Android,
> although the Dictionary states otherwise!?
> ----------------------------------------------
>   mobilecontrolCreate "player", "mplayer"
>   mobileControlSet "mplayer", "visible", TRUE
>   mobileControlSet "mplayer", "rect", (the rect of grc "player")
> 
> ## Does nothing:
>   mobileControlSet "mplayer", "backgroundcolor", "213,143,116"
>     
>   mobileControlSet "mplayer", "showController", TRUE
>   mobileControlSet "mplayer", "filename", tURL
>   
> ## Whatever I set here, on Android I always get a black rect with
> ## the player controls inside of it.
>   mobileControlSet "mplayer", "opaque", FALSE
> 
> ## Whatever value I enter here, nothing will change the apprearance
>   mobileControlSet "mplayer", "alpha", 127
> ----------------------------------------------
> Before I report this, is this a dictionary bug or what?
> Or is it just me again? :-D
> 
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Oct 26 15:26:47 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2023 14:26:47 -0500
Subject: Oddity in 'currentCard' function?
In-Reply-To: <bf4111f4-4933-4779-ad81-f4c4bf7f5210@sonic.net>
References: <eaf3e2d1-542e-4f54-a14d-c37c3059a1ac@researchware.com>
 <efb31369983cde73d27e0655ec6897c4@livecode.com>
 <b19be346-edf3-4e90-af5f-430817a15680@researchware.com>
 <f4440114f151d6ceb32d6f4afa4ffe7c@livecode.com>
 <bf4111f4-4933-4779-ad81-f4c4bf7f5210@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <2f384bd9-43bb-47f5-93b5-3844c6572a3f@hyperactivesw.com>

On 10/26/23 11:17 AM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote:
> So basically to stay out of trouble "currentcard" should be thought of as a write-only property?

It can be read if you supply syntax that requests a legal value; i.e.:

   the name of the currentCard of stack X
   the loc of the currentCard of stack X
   the backColor of the currentCard of stack X

Cards themselves have no intrinsic value (what would they return?) but their properties do. 
Similarly, what would expect to see if you:

    answer stack X

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Oct 26 15:32:36 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2023 14:32:36 -0500
Subject: Oddity in 'currentCard' function?
In-Reply-To: <2f384bd9-43bb-47f5-93b5-3844c6572a3f@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <eaf3e2d1-542e-4f54-a14d-c37c3059a1ac@researchware.com>
 <efb31369983cde73d27e0655ec6897c4@livecode.com>
 <b19be346-edf3-4e90-af5f-430817a15680@researchware.com>
 <f4440114f151d6ceb32d6f4afa4ffe7c@livecode.com>
 <bf4111f4-4933-4779-ad81-f4c4bf7f5210@sonic.net>
 <2f384bd9-43bb-47f5-93b5-3844c6572a3f@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <4165b148-62d3-4329-8c24-c6bfcdbff996@hyperactivesw.com>

On 10/26/23 2:26 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
>>
> 
> It can be read if you supply syntax that requests a legal value; i.e.:
> 
>    the name of the currentCard of stack X
>    the loc of the currentCard of stack X
>    the backColor of the currentCard of stack X

Oops. That's wrong. It errors. This:

   put the loc of cd the currentcard of stack X
   etc...

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From klaus at major-k.de  Fri Oct 27 09:19:21 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2023 15:19:21 +0200
Subject: some mobilecontrolprops do not work on Android?
In-Reply-To: <89cef04a-ca0f-4a44-9e16-a894af804278@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <0C24DFA6-64EB-4ABC-B76B-755F82D1D96C@major-k.de>
 <89cef04a-ca0f-4a44-9e16-a894af804278@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <138D7891-3C34-4DB6-B1B4-43247FC78758@major-k.de>

Hi Jacque,

> Am 26.10.2023 um 21:14 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> The backgroundColor and alpha settings might be a dictionary error.

OK, will report that.

> The opaque setting says it is available only for iOS.

Yes, my fault.

> I think the appearance of mobile players is set directly by the OS now, so the color and transparency may not be available on Android.

That's what i guessed.

Thanks!

> On 10/26/23 9:56 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hi friends,
>> I (now successfully :) create a player for MP3 playback,
>> however some properties do not seem to work on Android,
>> although the Dictionary states otherwise!?
>> ----------------------------------------------
>>  mobilecontrolCreate "player", "mplayer"
>>  mobileControlSet "mplayer", "visible", TRUE
>>  mobileControlSet "mplayer", "rect", (the rect of grc "player")
>> ## Does nothing:
>>  mobileControlSet "mplayer", "backgroundcolor", "213,143,116"
>>      mobileControlSet "mplayer", "showController", TRUE
>>  mobileControlSet "mplayer", "filename", tURL
>>  ## Whatever I set here, on Android I always get a black rect with
>> ## the player controls inside of it.
>>  mobileControlSet "mplayer", "opaque", FALSE
>> ## Whatever value I enter here, nothing will change the apprearance
>>  mobileControlSet "mplayer", "alpha", 127
>> ----------------------------------------------
>> Before I report this, is this a dictionary bug or what?
>> Or is it just me again? :-D

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From runrevron at gmail.com  Sat Oct 28 04:38:15 2023
From: runrevron at gmail.com (ron barber)
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2023 16:38:15 +0800
Subject: Open new windows as a tab not working?
Message-ID: <7BBAE6EE-F548-49B0-BD52-73034B9833C8@gmail.com>

I had a standalone built using Mac 10.14; LC 9.03.  Sonoma broke the menus (actually the app would not even open) so I upgraded LC to 9.6.10 and that solved the menu problem.

However now a user is reporting and I have confirmed that the option to open new windows as a tab in the existing window no longer works. That is, LC 9.0.3 build respected the tab setting but the 9.6.10 build does not. This is handled by the system preferences in Dock:  “Prefer tabs when opening documents” .

Is this a bug or is there a workaround or do I need to upgrade LC?

Thanks for your suggestions
Ron

From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au  Sun Oct 29 20:00:00 2023
From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2023 11:00:00 +1100
Subject: arrayToJSON not working in lcserver on Linux - resolved
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1697731201.435780.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.1.1697731201.435780.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <21652F76-FFD4-444B-A700-8BE2DEC1A115@optusnet.com.au>

Panos advises me that indeed arrayToJSON does not work out of the box in lcserver, although it does work in the IDE and standalones. And that this is not a bug.

Let’s call it a lacuna, I suggest in code, Panos concedes in documentation. 

The story is that the mergJSON library, which is accessed from LC on all platforms using the mergJSONEncode function, only handles 1-dimensional arrays. The arrayToJSON encoder, and the corresponding decoder, use recursive loops to extend to multidimensional arrays. These convenience handlers are in a stack mergJSONLibrary.livescodecript, which is included in the IDE and standalones, but is not (*even* - my emphasis)  distributed with LCserver.

So to use arrayToJSON from LCserver one can upload the library stack - available at https://github.com/montegoulding/mergJSON/blob/master/mergJSON/mergJSONLibrary.livecodescript
- and then call “start using…”. Or,  more simply, copy the handlers from that stack into your own code.

An addition to the  dictionary entries for arrayToJSON and JSONToArray is definitely in order. Actually, the two handlers in question can be found in the mergJSONEncode and mergJSONDecode dictionary entries, if you first find those entries.

I remain rather puzzled that the multi-dimensional array handlers were not embedded in the mergJSON C-code library in the first place by Monte or LC when they took it over. Blazing speed when communicating with javascript, which is where these calls would most likely be used particularly with LCServer, would seem to be imperative. Maybe the internal implementation of arrays was yet not settled? Whatever, a fix for this code lacuna would be nice, if unlikely to happen.

[Actually in my case I wasn't talking to javascript. All I wanted was a way to transport an array from the server back to a client.  The  serialisation arrayEncode worked for me once I realised the keys and elements of the array all had to be in utf-16 encoding, anything in utf-8 could cause the decoding to fail. And for safety in sending over the net I also base64encoded - was this last step necessary or just paranoia?]

Neville Smythe


 








From monte.goulding at livecode.com  Sun Oct 29 21:07:22 2023
From: monte.goulding at livecode.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2023 12:07:22 +1100
Subject: arrayToJSON not working in lcserver on Linux - resolved
In-Reply-To: <21652F76-FFD4-444B-A700-8BE2DEC1A115@optusnet.com.au>
References: <mailman.1.1697731201.435780.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <21652F76-FFD4-444B-A700-8BE2DEC1A115@optusnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <5E4ED87D-030F-404B-86E0-348396310405@livecode.com>


> On 30 Oct 2023, at 11:00 am, Neville Smythe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I remain rather puzzled that the multi-dimensional array handlers were not embedded in the mergJSON C-code library in the first place by Monte or LC when they took it over. Blazing speed when communicating with javascript, which is where these calls would most likely be used particularly with LCServer, would seem to be imperative. Maybe the internal implementation of arrays was yet not settled? Whatever, a fix for this code lacuna would be nice, if unlikely to happen.

Hi Neville

There is no multi-dimensional array support in the externals API. If I were implementing mergJSON from scratch now I would use LCB and direct calls to Jansson. I don’t think we could just change mergJSON in a backwards compatible way unfortunately. I agree our server docs should detail the installation of any support libraries for included externals and it would likely be helpful if server had a built in extension loader so you can just put extensions in a folder near it.

Cheers

Monte

From runrevron at gmail.com  Sun Oct 29 21:35:53 2023
From: runrevron at gmail.com (ron barber)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2023 09:35:53 +0800
Subject: Open new windows as  tab not working?
Message-ID: <FF366D35-5141-40E4-87AC-99B91592CE97@gmail.com>

I had a standalone built using Mac 10.14; LC 9.03.  Sonoma broke the menus (actually the app would not even open) so I upgraded LC to 9.6.10 and that solved the menu problem.

However now a user is reporting and I have confirmed that the option to open new windows as a tab in the existing window no longer works. That is, LC 9.0.3 build respected the tab setting but the 9.6.10 build does not. This is handled by the system preferences in Dock:  “Prefer tabs when opening documents” .

Is this a bug or is there a workaround or do I need to upgrade LC?

Thanks for your suggestions
Ron

From dvglasgow at gmail.com  Mon Oct 30 13:17:46 2023
From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David Glasgow)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2023 17:17:46 +0000
Subject: Filter with wildcards
Message-ID: <007A938B-3793-4D4A-ACAB-58A13E559AA9@gmail.com>

Hi folks,

I am doing the above and struggling with an oddity that I can’t find guidance on on Livecode or wider wildcard stuff

A simple example is I am searching text messages for 'with you' or 'with u’

so I use the wildcard form

*with [you,u]*

That finds all examples of both just fine.  However, it also finds ‘with unlimited cheese’ and 'with us’, ‘with yours’ etc.  so I want a space after both u

When I put two spaces inside the square brackets after each string, the search still works but spaces seem to be ignored (so still finds the above resamples I don’t want).

If I put a single space after the brackets the first bracketed string is ignored and the filter only finds “with u “

Hope someone can help me stop pulling my baffled face

Cheers

David Glasgow



From craig at starfirelighting.com  Mon Oct 30 14:11:35 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2023 14:11:35 -0400
Subject: Filter with wildcards
In-Reply-To: <007A938B-3793-4D4A-ACAB-58A13E559AA9@gmail.com>
References: <007A938B-3793-4D4A-ACAB-58A13E559AA9@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EF7F91D8-E5A8-43B1-8810-0F9A2A76467D@starfirelighting.com>

Have not played with a method of keeping it all in one line. But can you filter twice, storing the first result and then running it again?

Craig

> On Oct 30, 2023, at 1:17 PM, David Glasgow via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi folks,
> 
> I am doing the above and struggling with an oddity that I can’t find guidance on on Livecode or wider wildcard stuff
> 
> A simple example is I am searching text messages for 'with you' or 'with u’
> 
> so I use the wildcard form
> 
> *with [you,u]*
> 
> That finds all examples of both just fine.  However, it also finds ‘with unlimited cheese’ and 'with us’, ‘with yours’ etc.  so I want a space after both u
> 
> When I put two spaces inside the square brackets after each string, the search still works but spaces seem to be ignored (so still finds the above resamples I don’t want).
> 
> If I put a single space after the brackets the first bracketed string is ignored and the filter only finds “with u “
> 
> Hope someone can help me stop pulling my baffled face
> 
> Cheers
> 
> David Glasgow
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Mon Oct 30 14:30:14 2023
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2023 20:30:14 +0200
Subject: Filter with wildcards
In-Reply-To: <007A938B-3793-4D4A-ACAB-58A13E559AA9@gmail.com>
References: <007A938B-3793-4D4A-ACAB-58A13E559AA9@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <423a00c1-84de-40ec-acc0-046f19402eaa@gmail.com>

OK: well I had a bash with a set like this:

with unlimited cheese

with you

with u

with udders clagged with glaur

with youthful naivety

and your filter grabbed all of them. :(

I tried this:

with"with [you, u,]*"

and got the same.

On reading in the dictionary I found this:

filtertVar with"[az]*"-- tVar contains all property names beginning with 
a or z

and the problematic phrase is 'beginning with'.

On 30.10.23 19:17, David Glasgow via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> I am doing the above and struggling with an oddity that I cant find guidance on on Livecode or wider wildcard stuff
>
> A simple example is I am searching text messages for 'with you' or 'with u
>
> so I use the wildcard form
>
> *with [you,u]*
>
> That finds all examples of both just fine.  However, it also finds with unlimited cheese and 'with us, with yours etc.  so I want a space after both u
>
> When I put two spaces inside the square brackets after each string, the search still works but spaces seem to be ignored (so still finds the above resamples I dont want).
>
> If I put a single space after the brackets the first bracketed string is ignored and the filter only finds with u 
>
> Hope someone can help me stop pulling my baffled face
>
> Cheers
>
> David Glasgow
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Mon Oct 30 14:48:00 2023
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2023 20:48:00 +0200
Subject: Filter with wildcards
In-Reply-To: <EF7F91D8-E5A8-43B1-8810-0F9A2A76467D@starfirelighting.com>
References: <007A938B-3793-4D4A-ACAB-58A13E559AA9@gmail.com>
 <EF7F91D8-E5A8-43B1-8810-0F9A2A76467D@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <d321d079-119e-4ebf-9c82-9794ecb983a8@gmail.com>

Oddly enough a matchChunk expression with "with you$" pulls out all the 
'with you' stuff and excludes this sort of thing: 'with youthful 
naivety' . . . which is marvellous

But a matchChunk expression with "with u$" catches nothing!

On 30.10.23 20:11, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote:
> Have not played with a method of keeping it all in one line. But can you filter twice, storing the first result and then running it again?
>
> Craig
>
>> On Oct 30, 2023, at 1:17 PM, David Glasgow via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> I am doing the above and struggling with an oddity that I cant find guidance on on Livecode or wider wildcard stuff
>>
>> A simple example is I am searching text messages for 'with you' or 'with u
>>
>> so I use the wildcard form
>>
>> *with [you,u]*
>>
>> That finds all examples of both just fine.  However, it also finds with unlimited cheese and 'with us, with yours etc.  so I want a space after both u
>>
>> When I put two spaces inside the square brackets after each string, the search still works but spaces seem to be ignored (so still finds the above resamples I dont want).
>>
>> If I put a single space after the brackets the first bracketed string is ignored and the filter only finds with u 
>>
>> Hope someone can help me stop pulling my baffled face
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> David Glasgow
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Mon Oct 30 15:06:14 2023
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2023 21:06:14 +0200
Subject: Filter with wildcards
In-Reply-To: <007A938B-3793-4D4A-ACAB-58A13E559AA9@gmail.com>
References: <007A938B-3793-4D4A-ACAB-58A13E559AA9@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3e1e4fd1-bd7d-428a-8e72-adcf7dc75008@gmail.com>

I think that matchText is what you are looking for.

I have a proof stack which I shall upload to the forums, as obviously 
this is not possible here:

https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=38698

Best, Richmond Mathewson.

On 30.10.23 19:17, David Glasgow via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> I am doing the above and struggling with an oddity that I cant find guidance on on Livecode or wider wildcard stuff
>
> A simple example is I am searching text messages for 'with you' or 'with u
>
> so I use the wildcard form
>
> *with [you,u]*
>
> That finds all examples of both just fine.  However, it also finds with unlimited cheese and 'with us, with yours etc.  so I want a space after both u
>
> When I put two spaces inside the square brackets after each string, the search still works but spaces seem to be ignored (so still finds the above resamples I dont want).
>
> If I put a single space after the brackets the first bracketed string is ignored and the filter only finds with u 
>
> Hope someone can help me stop pulling my baffled face
>
> Cheers
>
> David Glasgow
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From mark at livecode.com  Mon Oct 30 15:29:28 2023
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2023 19:29:28 +0000
Subject: Filter with wildcards
In-Reply-To: <007A938B-3793-4D4A-ACAB-58A13E559AA9@gmail.com>
References: <007A938B-3793-4D4A-ACAB-58A13E559AA9@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8241BF1B-50E8-409A-A4BF-621CAEE56D37@livecode.com>

The filter command has had a ‘with[out] regex’ form for a long time - so I’d use a regex instead :)

(I’m pretty sure [ ] is a set of characters to match, rather than a list of sub strings, in wildcard expressions)

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 30 Oct 2023, at 17:19, David Glasgow via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi folks,
> 
> I am doing the above and struggling with an oddity that I can’t find guidance on on Livecode or wider wildcard stuff
> 
> A simple example is I am searching text messages for 'with you' or 'with u’
> 
> so I use the wildcard form
> 
> *with [you,u]*
> 
> That finds all examples of both just fine.  However, it also finds ‘with unlimited cheese’ and 'with us’, ‘with yours’ etc.  so I want a space after both u
> 
> When I put two spaces inside the square brackets after each string, the search still works but spaces seem to be ignored (so still finds the above resamples I don’t want).
> 
> If I put a single space after the brackets the first bracketed string is ignored and the filter only finds “with u “
> 
> Hope someone can help me stop pulling my baffled face
> 
> Cheers
> 
> David Glasgow
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au  Tue Oct 31 16:26:20 2023
From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe)
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2023 07:26:20 +1100
Subject: Filter with wildcards
Message-ID: <4EFDA632-E545-4A80-B3C4-EF2121354228@optusnet.com.au>

Reglar expressions is definitely the way to go

So you want to catch any number of characters
.*
Followed by the string “with “
.*with 
Followed by either “you” or “u”
.*with (you|u)
Followed by a space and then any umber of characters, giving
.*with (you|u) .*

Except you might want to look for lines ending in with you, or a period
.*with (you|u)( .*|\.|$)

And what about “With You”. Since regex is case sensitive by default 
(?i).*with (you|u)( .*|\.|$)

Filter tList with regex "(?i).*with (you|u)( .*|\.|$)"

Writing this in a rush so I hope I haven’t got that wrong

Neville Smythe





From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au  Tue Oct 31 16:37:41 2023
From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe)
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2023 07:37:41 +1100
Subject: Filter with wildcards
Message-ID: <F7AE017D-19F2-46B8-B065-DA3230C5E155@optusnet.com.au>

Filter tList with regex "(?i).*with (you|u)( .*|\.|$)"

I did forget something … wth you might be folllowed by a comma or colon or something so the last brackets should search for either any non alphabetic character or the end of line, so think (going from memory here)

Filter tList with regex "(?i).*with (you|u)([^a-zA-Z]|$)”


Neville Smythe





From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au  Tue Oct 31 16:59:07 2023
From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe)
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2023 07:59:07 +1100
Subject: Filter with wildcards
Message-ID: <CE865EE3-2043-4847-880D-76BD96908352@optusnet.com.au>

Forgot any number of other chars after the non-numeric character

Filter tList with regex "(?i).*with (you|u)([^a-zA-Z].*|$)”

Now I’ve really got to go … hope I’ve got it all right this time! 

Neville Smythe