From monte.goulding at livecode.com  Mon May  1 00:41:17 2023
From: monte.goulding at livecode.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Mon, 1 May 2023 14:41:17 +1000
Subject: mySQL and primary key
In-Reply-To: <03bd7225a05442bbc509c0f04c74fce6@souslelogo.com>
References: <03bd7225a05442bbc509c0f04c74fce6@souslelogo.com>
Message-ID: <5F8D6023-77A5-4DC6-BF55-AA01379697FA@livecode.com>

If you can connect remotely to the server then try using MySQL workbench (available from Oracle) if not then you will need to SSH to the server, login to mysql on command line and do it there.

> On 29 Apr 2023, at 9:40 pm, jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi list,
> 
> I have a mySQL table with 13500000 entries that weights
> almost 20 Gb.
> I need to create a primary key on the "id" column.
> I have tried in phpMyAdmin as well as in a script with
> "ALTER TABLE myTable ADD PRIMARY KEY(id)", but each time
> I get a "504 Gateway Timeout" error, and no index is created.
> 
> What else can I try ?
> 
> Thank you in advance.
> jbv
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From klaus at major-k.de  Tue May  2 09:06:24 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 15:06:24 +0200
Subject: opencard and visual effect
Message-ID: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>

Hi friends,

quick question:
Will "opencard" be sent to a card AFTER the card was navigated to
with a visual effect or already during the effect?

I cannot tell actually in my stack.


Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From craig at starfirelighting.com  Tue May  2 10:05:38 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 10:05:38 -0400
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <ACF30412-A84D-4502-AD63-1E629DB0A24E@starfirelighting.com>

Klaus.

I would guess that as soon as the card was navigated to, that is, before any visual effect starts or finishes.

Not sure how to test this since I am not sure what messages or properties might be set before, during or after a visual effect runs.

Craig

> On May 2, 2023, at 9:06 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi friends,
> 
> quick question:
> Will "opencard" be sent to a card AFTER the card was navigated to
> with a visual effect or already during the effect?
> 
> I cannot tell actually in my stack.
> 
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From dvglasgow at gmail.com  Tue May  2 10:08:13 2023
From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David Glasgow)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 15:08:13 +0100
Subject: Creating 'read only' text files
In-Reply-To: <8ba5f663-334d-1354-a5ce-18f1b08395d7@researchware.com>
References: <D2D3E180-1312-44D8-A8D5-5D65F4427359@gmail.com>
 <8ba5f663-334d-1354-a5ce-18f1b08395d7@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <024B995C-0499-467A-8D21-EBD5009B832B@gmail.com>

Perfect.  Thanks, Paul.

> On 30 Apr 2023, at 1:43 pm, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I don't know of a Livecode syntax per se to do this (i.e some syntax like: set the permissions of file tFile to read-only)
> 
> You can do this in Livecode using the shell() function (see the dictionary) to issue applicable mac or win command lines. For eample a Google search shows the command line to change a file's permissions on Windows is:
> 
> attrib +r file.txt
> 
> so you could code something like (not tested):
> 
> switch platform()
>   case "Win32"
>     set the hideConsoleWindows to true -- prevents windows console window from appears when the shell command executes
>    put "attrib +r " & quote & tFile & quote into tCommand -- were tFile is the file (path and name with native \ delimiters) you want to make read-only
>    put shell(tCommand) into tResult
>    break
>   case "MacOS"
>     -- use chmod 744 apple.txt for you to have full access and everyone else read-only OR
>     -- use chmod 444 apple.txt for everyone, you included, to be read-only
>    put "chmod 444 " & quote & tFile & quote into tCommand -- were tFile is the file (path and name) you want to make read-only
>    put shell(tCommand) into tResult
>    break
> end switch
> 
> This code may need some tweaking but I think this is the general approach to do what you want.
> 
> On 4/30/2023 7:35 AM, David V Glasgow via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hi folks,
>> 
>> Really simple question that I can’t see having been asked before, so here goes…
>> 
>> I have a stack that outputs small text files.  Each includes a hash value referencing part of itself that can be checked subsequently, so any change to the text can be flagged.
>> 
>> Is there a way I can easily create read-only files (Mac & Win) to discourage accidental user changes?  No need for encryption or hiding information anywhere, I just want to deter casual oopsies.
>> 
>> Thanks in anticipation...
>> 
>> Best Wishes,
>> 
>> David Glasgow
>> Honorary Professor, Nottingham Trent University
>> Sexual Offences, Crime and Misconduct Research Unit
>> Consultant Forensic & Clinical Psychologist
>> Carlton Glasgow Partnership
>> Director, Child & Family Training, York
>> 
>> 
>> LinkedIn <https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidvglasgow/ <https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidvglasgow/>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode <http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode <http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode>

From klaus at major-k.de  Tue May  2 10:21:18 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 16:21:18 +0200
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <ACF30412-A84D-4502-AD63-1E629DB0A24E@starfirelighting.com>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
 <ACF30412-A84D-4502-AD63-1E629DB0A24E@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <09831C08-2ED2-4AAF-A7F4-72820B632695@major-k.de>

Hi Craig,

> Am 02.05.2023 um 16:05 schrieb Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Klaus.
> 
> I would guess that as soon as the card was navigated to, that is, before any visual effect starts or finishes.
> Not sure how to test this since I am not sure what messages or properties might be set before, during or after a visual effect runs.
> 
> Craig

thank you, but I need certainty! :-)

My scenario:
...
lock screen for visual effect
set the effectrate to 300
go next cd
unlock screen with visual wipe left very slow
...

and on the "next card"  I need to measure the time until the 
user hits a certain key (1 or 2) on the keyboard like this:
-------------------------
## Script of the "next" card:
local tMillisecs

on opencard
   put the millisecs into tMillisecs
end opencard

on keydown tKey
if tKey = 1 OR tKey = 2 then
   put the millisecs - tMillisecs into tDuration
...

You get the picture, so I need to measure this precisely!



Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From dochawk at gmail.com  Tue May  2 10:25:57 2023
From: dochawk at gmail.com (doc hawk)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 07:25:57 -0700
Subject: Creating 'read only' text files
In-Reply-To: <D2D3E180-1312-44D8-A8D5-5D65F4427359@gmail.com>
References: <D2D3E180-1312-44D8-A8D5-5D65F4427359@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8AF00A73-7473-4097-B832-38377CADFF50@gmail.com>

And just to avoid the brainfreeeze that I’d probably absentmindedly implement:

You have to create the file and do all of your writing, and then *change* the file to read only . . .

Uihm, err, i never really make mistakes like that, or applying bus voltage to a whole bank of toggle switches, or . . .




From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com  Tue May  2 11:23:23 2023
From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 17:23:23 +0200
Subject: A spinner that keeps spinning
Message-ID: <A19230F3-714C-4457-A827-AAE9000E7188@gmail.com>

Hi all,

It has long annoyed me that the spinner widget doesn’t actually spin when you need it to - during lockScreen or when a database fetch blocks everything. Animated gifs are no better.

Inspired by some comment over at the forum, I embarked on building myself a tool for crafting spinners animated in browser widgets, as those would continue spinning in a heavenly layer of its own, no matter what traffic jams occur down on LC ground level… 

Of course the project grew bigger than initially planned, as they do, and is not finished yet, as they never are - but at least I have something good enough to use, and good enough to share (I think).

The stack is designed for use it in the LC IDE, to craft the spinner (or whatever animation you want) and then copy the browser widget (or just the htmlText) to wherever you want to use it. The code is completely self-sufficient (html and css all crammed in). 
One can obviously make any kind of repeating animation with it (within the limits of the current css animation lib), not only spinners. 

Here is a link to the gitHub rep:
https://github.com/wheninspace/WIS_BrowserAnimation

And here is a web deployment of it (LC10 dp5), just to prove that the resulting code also works on web.
https://wheninspace.com/browseranimation/
(Make sure to click the "Show examples” button to see some cool examples… :)

Please let me know if you find it useful (or how to improve it, if it isn't).

/Andreas

From hakan at exformedia.se  Tue May  2 11:47:33 2023
From: hakan at exformedia.se (=?utf-8?Q?H=C3=A5kan_Liljegren?=)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 17:47:33 +0200
Subject: Script widgets questions
Message-ID: <750A5A08-9A24-499B-B4E7-C1C4D991B151@exformedia.se>

Dabbling with some script widgets. Fun, but a bit tedious at the moment, but here are some findings and some questions/proposals. 

=== Findings: (Can be me missing something though…) ===

Don’t forget that you need to click the “Show Options” button in the file chooser and change the Format to “LiveCode Script” to be able to load your script widget at all in the Extension Builder. (I missed this and got very frustrated before I realised this) Often after changing the Format to “LiveCode Script” the script file is still greyed out, but you can still double-click the file to load… Unfortunately you need to set the format every time the file chooser pops up…

When creating a script widget you should use the extension builder to test it. Opening the script file, editing and saving and then creating via the command line via “create widget as …” is a bit hit and miss for me. It might be that I need to set things up better but even when trying the tutorials from the mothership it doesn’t work as expected. But opening the “Extension Builder” and then testing the widget works!

It is at the moment really easy to crash LiveCode when testing a widget. It feels like if you have almost any error in the code you might crash LiveCode, so count on that you need to save all the time and be prepared to restart often! This will certainly (hopefully?) improve as this is an early pre-release of script widgets.

When you are done testing, just close the window and LiveCode will handle everything for you or click the “Stop testing extension” button in the Extension Builder. If you use “Close and remove from memory” your test might not end properly and you might just get “Your widget is up to date” the next time you try to test it.

It is fine to “overload” properties in the widget. E.g. having a property named “backgroundColor” Is fine and your get- and setProp will be called. If you don’t add the "get propertyMetadata” for a property LiveCode will still add an entry in the inspector. This is both good and bad. Good because you can test your widget early, and bad because there seems to be no way to NOT get the property to show up. One strange finding here is that I created a “field” widget with some extra bells and whistles. So therefore I added properties for text, rtfText and htmlText. Of these I only wanted to show the text in the inspector. The htmlText and the rtfText shows up whatever I try but the text does not!? I can set the text fine via code though…


=== Questions / Proposals (Can again be me not knowing/missing something…) ===

It would be nice to be able to add properties that NOT show up in the inspector. My suggestion is that if there is a getProp propertyMetadata function only the properties included there should be included in the inspector.

When adding properties there seems to be no way to control the order they show up in the inspector!? Or is it? This makes it hard to get any logical order of the properties. This could be solved with an “order” key for each entry in propertyMetadata like:
getProp propertyMetadata[pProperty]
   switch pProperty
      case “backgroundColor"
          return {
		“order”: 1
…

It would also be nice to able to write:

getProp propertyMetadata[pProperty]
   switch pProperty
      case “backgroundColor"
          return {
		“type”: “native”
	}
…

Or some other way to support the “native” properties. A standard group in LiveCode can have colors, effects, and text settings and the colors and text settings are inherited by the controls in the group unless they have their own properties and effects are applied to the group. When creating script widgets you then need to duplicate all of this if you want to support it, and that shouldn’t be needed (IMHO). If it would be possible to just enable a tab in the inspector it would be really nice like:
getProp inspectorTabs[pTab]
	switch pTab
		case “colors”:
			return true
			break
		case “effects”
			return false
…

Or something similar to enable or disable a full tab.


But my final say is, that even if the script widgets are in an early stage, they are a really important and nice addition! So, keep up the good work!

:-Håkan

From hakan at exformedia.se  Tue May  2 11:56:30 2023
From: hakan at exformedia.se (=?utf-8?Q?H=C3=A5kan_Liljegren?=)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 17:56:30 +0200
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <126B6BDF-626C-4EDC-92F2-2796D608EF2C@exformedia.se>

AFTER!

Create two cards
Add a button or something on the first card with the code
on mouseUp
   visual effect dissolve slow
   go to next card
end mouseUp

On the second card add a control and the hide it and add the script to the card:
on opencard
   show control 1
end opencard

You will then clearly see that the first card dissolves slowly and when the transition is done the control appears (no cross-dissolve) 

The preOpenCard is run before and the openCard is run after.

:-Håkan

> On 2 May 2023, at 15:06, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi friends,
> 
> quick question:
> Will "opencard" be sent to a card AFTER the card was navigated to
> with a visual effect or already during the effect?
> 
> I cannot tell actually in my stack.
> 
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From klaus at major-k.de  Tue May  2 12:07:37 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 18:07:37 +0200
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <126B6BDF-626C-4EDC-92F2-2796D608EF2C@exformedia.se>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
 <126B6BDF-626C-4EDC-92F2-2796D608EF2C@exformedia.se>
Message-ID: <82F5C142-0548-4351-9781-EE3AFF8CE359@major-k.de>

Hi Håkan

> Am 02.05.2023 um 17:56 schrieb Håkan Liljegren via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> AFTER!
> 
> Create two cards
> Add a button or something on the first card with the code
> on mouseUp
>   visual effect dissolve slow
>   go to next card
> end mouseUp
> 
> On the second card add a control and the hide it and add the script to the card:
> on opencard
>   show control 1
> end opencard
> 
> You will then clearly see that the first card dissolves slowly and when the transition is done the control appears (no cross-dissolve) 
> The preOpenCard is run before and the openCard is run after.

hm, not sure, I made a test here by myself.

Button to go to next cd with a visual effect:
...
put the millisecs
## go_next is in the stack script and goes to the next card:
## lock screen for visual effect
## set the effectrate to 300
## go next cd
## unlock screen with visual wipe left very slow
go_next
...
Then on the "next" cd I scripted:
-----------------------------------
on opencard
  put the millisecs into tMillisecs
  put CR & tMillisecs after msg
end opencard
-----------------------------------
And I ended with this in the msg:
1683043067873
1683043067877

Only 4 millisecs difference, but with the set effectrate the difference should be at least 300!?
So I guess "opencard" is already sent BEFORE the visual effect, at least according to the above data, right?

Molto mysterioso... :-)

Someone knows exactly?

> :-Håkan
> 
>> On 2 May 2023, at 15:06, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi friends,
>> 
>> quick question:
>> Will "opencard" be sent to a card AFTER the card was navigated to
>> with a visual effect or already during the effect?
>> I cannot tell actually in my stack.

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From craig at starfirelighting.com  Tue May  2 12:16:35 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 12:16:35 -0400
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <09831C08-2ED2-4AAF-A7F4-72820B632695@major-k.de>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
 <ACF30412-A84D-4502-AD63-1E629DB0A24E@starfirelighting.com>
 <09831C08-2ED2-4AAF-A7F4-72820B632695@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <EEE21B9A-2E66-4409-9FE3-437586D67107@starfirelighting.com>

Klaus.

Why aren’t you doing this in the forum???

I made a stack with two cards. Card 1 has a button on it:

global tTime

on mouseUp

put the ticks into tTime

visual effect "checkerBoard" slow

go cd 2

end mouseUp



In the card 2 script:

global tTime

on openCard

put the ticks - tTime into fld 2

end openCard



I get about 60 ticks, so it seems the message is sent AFTER the visual effect completes. Know that with “preOpenCard” I get 0 ticks; the message is sent before the visual effect.

Craig


> On May 2, 2023, at 10:21 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Craig,
> 
>> Am 02.05.2023 um 16:05 schrieb Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Klaus.
>> 
>> I would guess that as soon as the card was navigated to, that is, before any visual effect starts or finishes.
>> Not sure how to test this since I am not sure what messages or properties might be set before, during or after a visual effect runs.
>> 
>> Craig
> 
> thank you, but I need certainty! :-)
> 
> My scenario:
> ...
> lock screen for visual effect
> set the effectrate to 300
> go next cd
> unlock screen with visual wipe left very slow
> ...
> 
> and on the "next card"  I need to measure the time until the 
> user hits a certain key (1 or 2) on the keyboard like this:
> -------------------------
> ## Script of the "next" card:
> local tMillisecs
> 
> on opencard
>   put the millisecs into tMillisecs
> end opencard
> 
> on keydown tKey
> if tKey = 1 OR tKey = 2 then
>   put the millisecs - tMillisecs into tDuration
> ...
> 
> You get the picture, so I need to measure this precisely!
> 
> 
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From klaus at major-k.de  Tue May  2 12:18:21 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 18:18:21 +0200
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <82F5C142-0548-4351-9781-EE3AFF8CE359@major-k.de>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
 <126B6BDF-626C-4EDC-92F2-2796D608EF2C@exformedia.se>
 <82F5C142-0548-4351-9781-EE3AFF8CE359@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <F5D4790D-B6CD-4CD0-ACD2-B9370D93DE63@major-k.de>

Hi all,

> Am 02.05.2023 um 18:07 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi Håkan
> 
>> Am 02.05.2023 um 17:56 schrieb Håkan Liljegren via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> AFTER!
>> 
>> Create two cards
>> Add a button or something on the first card with the code
>> on mouseUp
>>  visual effect dissolve slow
>>  go to next card
>> end mouseUp
>> 
>> On the second card add a control and the hide it and add the script to the card:
>> on opencard
>>  show control 1
>> end opencard
>> 
>> You will then clearly see that the first card dissolves slowly and when the transition is done the control appears (no cross-dissolve) 
>> The preOpenCard is run before and the openCard is run after.
> 
> hm, not sure, I made a test here by myself.
> 
> Button to go to next cd with a visual effect:
> ...
> put the millisecs
> ## go_next is in the stack script and goes to the next card:
> ## lock screen for visual effect
> ## set the effectrate to 300
> ## go next cd
> ## unlock screen with visual wipe left very slow
> go_next
> ...
> Then on the "next" cd I scripted:
> -----------------------------------
> on opencard
>  put the millisecs into tMillisecs
>  put CR & tMillisecs after msg
> end opencard
> -----------------------------------
> And I ended with this in the msg:
> 1683043067873
> 1683043067877
> 
> Only 4 millisecs difference, but with the set effectrate the difference should be at least 300!?
> So I guess "opencard" is already sent BEFORE the visual effect, at least according to the above data, right?
> 
> Molto mysterioso... :-)
> 
> Someone knows exactly?

obviously there is a big difference by using:
----------------------------
lock screen for visual effect
go next
unlock screen...
----------------------------
And:
----------------------------
 visual effect ...
 go to next card
----------------------------
Using the latter I get this in the msg:
1683043997883
1683043998101

Not the full 300 millisecs difference as exspected by the effectrate, but more than in my first test.

Someone knowing please chime in! :-)


Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Tue May  2 12:18:34 2023
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 12:18:34 -0400
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <82F5C142-0548-4351-9781-EE3AFF8CE359@major-k.de>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
 <126B6BDF-626C-4EDC-92F2-2796D608EF2C@exformedia.se>
 <82F5C142-0548-4351-9781-EE3AFF8CE359@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <004a01d97d11$c116e740$4344b5c0$@net>

The rendering get done after preOpenCard completes. In preOpenCard you can set up your data and geometry before the card is displayed. Try timing from the start of preOpenCard to start the openCard handlers.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net


-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Klaus major-k via use-livecode
Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2023 12:08 PM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Klaus major-k
Subject: Re: opencard and visual effect

Hi Håkan

> Am 02.05.2023 um 17:56 schrieb Håkan Liljegren via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> AFTER!
> 
> Create two cards
> Add a button or something on the first card with the code on mouseUp
>   visual effect dissolve slow
>   go to next card
> end mouseUp
> 
> On the second card add a control and the hide it and add the script to the card:
> on opencard
>   show control 1
> end opencard
> 
> You will then clearly see that the first card dissolves slowly and 
> when the transition is done the control appears (no cross-dissolve) The preOpenCard is run before and the openCard is run after.

hm, not sure, I made a test here by myself.

Button to go to next cd with a visual effect:
...
put the millisecs
## go_next is in the stack script and goes to the next card:
## lock screen for visual effect
## set the effectrate to 300
## go next cd
## unlock screen with visual wipe left very slow go_next ...
Then on the "next" cd I scripted:
-----------------------------------
on opencard
  put the millisecs into tMillisecs
  put CR & tMillisecs after msg
end opencard
-----------------------------------
And I ended with this in the msg:
1683043067873
1683043067877

Only 4 millisecs difference, but with the set effectrate the difference should be at least 300!?
So I guess "opencard" is already sent BEFORE the visual effect, at least according to the above data, right?

Molto mysterioso... :-)

Someone knows exactly?

> :-Håkan
> 
>> On 2 May 2023, at 15:06, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi friends,
>> 
>> quick question:
>> Will "opencard" be sent to a card AFTER the card was navigated to 
>> with a visual effect or already during the effect?
>> I cannot tell actually in my stack.

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de


_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From klaus at major-k.de  Tue May  2 12:21:54 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 18:21:54 +0200
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <EEE21B9A-2E66-4409-9FE3-437586D67107@starfirelighting.com>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
 <ACF30412-A84D-4502-AD63-1E629DB0A24E@starfirelighting.com>
 <09831C08-2ED2-4AAF-A7F4-72820B632695@major-k.de>
 <EEE21B9A-2E66-4409-9FE3-437586D67107@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <51DC6B91-5028-4195-9544-C39F1002B9D9@major-k.de>

Craig,

> Am 02.05.2023 um 18:16 schrieb Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Klaus.
> 
> Why aren’t you doing this in the forum???

this is a free country, I can do it whereever I like! :-D

> I made a stack with two cards. Card 1 has a button on it:
> 
> global tTime
> 
> on mouseUp
> put the ticks into tTime
> visual effect "checkerBoard" slow
> go cd 2
> end mouseUp
> 
> In the card 2 script:
> global tTime
> on openCard
> put the ticks - tTime into fld 2
> end openCard
> 
> I get about 60 ticks, so it seems the message is sent AFTER the visual effect completes. Know that with “preOpenCard” I get 0 ticks; the message is sent before the visual effect.
> 
> Craig

See my last mail, which is even more irritating...


Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue May  2 12:59:25 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 02 May 2023 11:59:25 -0500
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <F5D4790D-B6CD-4CD0-ACD2-B9370D93DE63@major-k.de>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
 <126B6BDF-626C-4EDC-92F2-2796D608EF2C@exformedia.se>
 <82F5C142-0548-4351-9781-EE3AFF8CE359@major-k.de>
 <F5D4790D-B6CD-4CD0-ACD2-B9370D93DE63@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <187dd6791c8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

Open the message watcher and compare its report to what you see on screen. 
That might help.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 2, 2023 11:19:41 AM Klaus major-k via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> Someone knowing please chime in! :-)





From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Tue May  2 12:59:49 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 12:59:49 -0400
Subject: Script widgets questions
In-Reply-To: <750A5A08-9A24-499B-B4E7-C1C4D991B151@exformedia.se>
References: <750A5A08-9A24-499B-B4E7-C1C4D991B151@exformedia.se>
Message-ID: <CADCoycPgwONR4RR25uTs=SzO1XCMnFL-qOG3hBPuQWi_g3nVkA@mail.gmail.com>

this is all going to be from memory from working with LCB widgets, and i
haven't worked with lcb widgets in months because i'm still waiting for LC
on several things.
anyway:
* i think that you are supposed to quote property names that are reserved
or already in use
* the way the property inspectors/property editor behave can be/are up to
you, but the documentation is zero. the PI is a stack in the LC bundle, and
it's intertwined with a number of other stacks, so slogging through it is
slow.
* you could try the repos i started on these topics, and maybe throw some
issues in:
https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual (wiki here:
https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual/wiki)
https://github.com/macMikey/LC-HACK

From klaus at major-k.de  Tue May  2 13:08:21 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 19:08:21 +0200
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <187dd6791c8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
 <126B6BDF-626C-4EDC-92F2-2796D608EF2C@exformedia.se>
 <82F5C142-0548-4351-9781-EE3AFF8CE359@major-k.de>
 <F5D4790D-B6CD-4CD0-ACD2-B9370D93DE63@major-k.de>
 <187dd6791c8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <64F00104-F165-4853-8898-B64CA836A510@major-k.de>

Hi Jacque,

> Am 02.05.2023 um 18:59 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Open the message watcher and compare its report to what you see on screen. That might help.

I did and see this:
...
preopencard 7:01:46 PM (0)
opencard 7:01:46 (3)
...
I may be a bit slow, but what does the three millisecs difference tell me? 8-)
That everyting (pre- and opencard) does in fact happen AFTER the visual effect?


Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From craig at starfirelighting.com  Tue May  2 13:17:45 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 13:17:45 -0400
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <64F00104-F165-4853-8898-B64CA836A510@major-k.de>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
 <126B6BDF-626C-4EDC-92F2-2796D608EF2C@exformedia.se>
 <82F5C142-0548-4351-9781-EE3AFF8CE359@major-k.de>
 <F5D4790D-B6CD-4CD0-ACD2-B9370D93DE63@major-k.de>
 <187dd6791c8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <64F00104-F165-4853-8898-B64CA836A510@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <3DCF70F5-0BA3-46C0-97C7-55EFA39FC595@starfirelighting.com>

Klaus.

Come back from the dark side. If you do I will send you the stack I made that seems to indicate that “openCard” is sent after the visual effect terminates.

Craig

> On May 2, 2023, at 1:08 PM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Jacque,
> 
>> Am 02.05.2023 um 18:59 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Open the message watcher and compare its report to what you see on screen. That might help.
> 
> I did and see this:
> ...
> preopencard 7:01:46 PM (0)
> opencard 7:01:46 (3)
> ...
> I may be a bit slow, but what does the three millisecs difference tell me? 8-)
> That everyting (pre- and opencard) does in fact happen AFTER the visual effect?
> 
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From craig at starfirelighting.com  Tue May  2 13:19:03 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 13:19:03 -0400
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <64F00104-F165-4853-8898-B64CA836A510@major-k.de>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
 <126B6BDF-626C-4EDC-92F2-2796D608EF2C@exformedia.se>
 <82F5C142-0548-4351-9781-EE3AFF8CE359@major-k.de>
 <F5D4790D-B6CD-4CD0-ACD2-B9370D93DE63@major-k.de>
 <187dd6791c8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <64F00104-F165-4853-8898-B64CA836A510@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <F9B5AE76-B752-4E58-9E0E-999A912A9196@starfirelighting.com>

Jacque.

Go to the forum. I did just that, and the “openCard” message appears in the message watcher exactly after the visual effect finishes.

Craig

> On May 2, 2023, at 1:08 PM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Jacque,
> 
>> Am 02.05.2023 um 18:59 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Open the message watcher and compare its report to what you see on screen. That might help.
> 
> I did and see this:
> ...
> preopencard 7:01:46 PM (0)
> opencard 7:01:46 (3)
> ...
> I may be a bit slow, but what does the three millisecs difference tell me? 8-)
> That everyting (pre- and opencard) does in fact happen AFTER the visual effect?
> 
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From klaus at major-k.de  Tue May  2 13:28:48 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 19:28:48 +0200
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <3DCF70F5-0BA3-46C0-97C7-55EFA39FC595@starfirelighting.com>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
 <126B6BDF-626C-4EDC-92F2-2796D608EF2C@exformedia.se>
 <82F5C142-0548-4351-9781-EE3AFF8CE359@major-k.de>
 <F5D4790D-B6CD-4CD0-ACD2-B9370D93DE63@major-k.de>
 <187dd6791c8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <64F00104-F165-4853-8898-B64CA836A510@major-k.de>
 <3DCF70F5-0BA3-46C0-97C7-55EFA39FC595@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <0FDD9016-F168-45DF-B6BB-289C8DDAFBAB@major-k.de>

Hi Craig,

> Am 02.05.2023 um 19:17 schrieb Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Klaus.
> 
> Come back from the dark side.

I have no idea why you are so possessed by the forum, is it a fetish thing? :-D

Here on the list I already see more than 10 postings to my question, try to outgun
this with the forum. 8-)

> If you do I will send you the stack I made that seems to indicate that “openCard” is sent after the visual effect terminates.

Thank you, but I do not need any other example stack, I want to know it with my stack and I also want to know 
why there are differences between the two ways of going to the next card with a visual effect. See my last mails...

> Craig
>> On May 2, 2023, at 1:08 PM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> Hi Jacque,
>>> Am 02.05.2023 um 18:59 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> Open the message watcher and compare its report to what you see on screen. That might help.
>> I did and see this:
>> ...
>> preopencard 7:01:46 PM (0)
>> opencard 7:01:46 (3)
>> ...
>> I may be a bit slow, but what does the three millisecs difference tell me? 8-)
>> That everyting (pre- and opencard) does in fact happen AFTER the visual effect?

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From Bernd.Niggemann at uni-wh.de  Tue May  2 14:43:24 2023
From: Bernd.Niggemann at uni-wh.de (Niggemann, Bernd)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 18:43:24 +0000
Subject: A spinner that keeps spinning
Message-ID: <0417C21C-5C82-4A20-BC0E-FC5B00A87B94@uni-wh.de>

Andreas Bergendal wrote:

> Inspired by some comment over at the forum, I embarked on building myself a 
> tool for crafting spinners animated in browser widgets, as those would continue 
> spinning in a heavenly layer of its own, no matter what traffic jams occur down 
> on LC ground level… 

Thank you for this amazing stack/WebApp.

It is very, very cool.

Kind regards
Bernd

From hakan at exformedia.se  Tue May  2 17:00:05 2023
From: hakan at exformedia.se (=?utf-8?Q?H=C3=A5kan_Liljegren?=)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 23:00:05 +0200
Subject: Script widgets questions
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycPgwONR4RR25uTs=SzO1XCMnFL-qOG3hBPuQWi_g3nVkA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <750A5A08-9A24-499B-B4E7-C1C4D991B151@exformedia.se>
 <CADCoycPgwONR4RR25uTs=SzO1XCMnFL-qOG3hBPuQWi_g3nVkA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <589A4A0F-142C-489C-820D-2DB5596B58B2@exformedia.se>

Thanks!

The “user_visible" works with script_widgets also, so setting:

case “htmlText”
	return { “user_visible” : false } 
	…

Will hide the property in the inspector. Unfortunately the “group” or “subsection” doesn’t seem to work. All my properties are still jumbled.

> On 2 May 2023, at 18:59, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> this is all going to be from memory from working with LCB widgets, and i
> haven't worked with lcb widgets in months because i'm still waiting for LC
> on several things.
> anyway:
> * i think that you are supposed to quote property names that are reserved
> or already in use
> * the way the property inspectors/property editor behave can be/are up to
> you, but the documentation is zero. the PI is a stack in the LC bundle, and
> it's intertwined with a number of other stacks, so slogging through it is
> slow.
> * you could try the repos i started on these topics, and maybe throw some
> issues in:
> https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual (wiki here:
> https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual/wiki)
> https://github.com/macMikey/LC-HACK
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From craig at starfirelighting.com  Tue May  2 17:00:24 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 17:00:24 -0400
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <0FDD9016-F168-45DF-B6BB-289C8DDAFBAB@major-k.de>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
 <126B6BDF-626C-4EDC-92F2-2796D608EF2C@exformedia.se>
 <82F5C142-0548-4351-9781-EE3AFF8CE359@major-k.de>
 <F5D4790D-B6CD-4CD0-ACD2-B9370D93DE63@major-k.de>
 <187dd6791c8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <64F00104-F165-4853-8898-B64CA836A510@major-k.de>
 <3DCF70F5-0BA3-46C0-97C7-55EFA39FC595@starfirelighting.com>
 <0FDD9016-F168-45DF-B6BB-289C8DDAFBAB@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <29F847B2-0636-4462-826F-F473F773A439@starfirelighting.com>

Klaus.

It is a works-much-better thing. Script samples and quotes can be separated from the main body of text. One can attach stacks and, for Richmond at least, silly photos and art layouts. One can edit past posts, or even delete them.

One can search threads in many ways.  MANY.

I was going to attach an emoji, but, well, we are in the use-list.

Otherwise, nothing significant.

Craig

> On May 2, 2023, at 1:28 PM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Craig,
> 
>> Am 02.05.2023 um 19:17 schrieb Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Klaus.
>> 
>> Come back from the dark side.
> 
> I have no idea why you are so possessed by the forum, is it a fetish thing? :-D
> 
> Here on the list I already see more than 10 postings to my question, try to outgun
> this with the forum. 8-)
> 
>> If you do I will send you the stack I made that seems to indicate that “openCard” is sent after the visual effect terminates.
> 
> Thank you, but I do not need any other example stack, I want to know it with my stack and I also want to know 
> why there are differences between the two ways of going to the next card with a visual effect. See my last mails...
> 
>> Craig
>>> On May 2, 2023, at 1:08 PM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Jacque,
>>>> Am 02.05.2023 um 18:59 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>> Open the message watcher and compare its report to what you see on screen. That might help.
>>> I did and see this:
>>> ...
>>> preopencard 7:01:46 PM (0)
>>> opencard 7:01:46 (3)
>>> ...
>>> I may be a bit slow, but what does the three millisecs difference tell me? 8-)
>>> That everyting (pre- and opencard) does in fact happen AFTER the visual effect?
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Tue May  2 17:10:57 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 17:10:57 -0400
Subject: Script widgets questions
In-Reply-To: <589A4A0F-142C-489C-820D-2DB5596B58B2@exformedia.se>
References: <750A5A08-9A24-499B-B4E7-C1C4D991B151@exformedia.se>
 <CADCoycPgwONR4RR25uTs=SzO1XCMnFL-qOG3hBPuQWi_g3nVkA@mail.gmail.com>
 <589A4A0F-142C-489C-820D-2DB5596B58B2@exformedia.se>
Message-ID: <CADCoycMLYdTO0ih+pBB8Qo5sbvViyrarihit2gc8W5EFR0ahNQ@mail.gmail.com>

if you're reusing properties that are already defined, elsewhere, you might
run into an issue with the panel, but if that's not the case, then i
suspect you have another problem. the pi works. it's just not documented.

On Tue, May 2, 2023 at 5:01 PM Håkan Liljegren via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Thanks!
>
> The “user_visible" works with script_widgets also, so setting:
>
> case “htmlText”
>         return { “user_visible” : false }
>         …
>
> Will hide the property in the inspector. Unfortunately the “group” or
> “subsection” doesn’t seem to work. All my properties are still jumbled.
>
> > On 2 May 2023, at 18:59, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > this is all going to be from memory from working with LCB widgets, and i
> > haven't worked with lcb widgets in months because i'm still waiting for
> LC
> > on several things.
> > anyway:
> > * i think that you are supposed to quote property names that are reserved
> > or already in use
> > * the way the property inspectors/property editor behave can be/are up to
> > you, but the documentation is zero. the PI is a stack in the LC bundle,
> and
> > it's intertwined with a number of other stacks, so slogging through it is
> > slow.
> > * you could try the repos i started on these topics, and maybe throw some
> > issues in:
> > https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual (wiki here:
> > https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual/wiki)
> > https://github.com/macMikey/LC-HACK
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Tue May  2 17:14:46 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 21:14:46 +0000
Subject: A spinner that keeps spinning
In-Reply-To: <A19230F3-714C-4457-A827-AAE9000E7188@gmail.com>
References: <A19230F3-714C-4457-A827-AAE9000E7188@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A9A7ABA0-1A4B-4552-959C-89AF42789260@iotecdigital.com>

That is pretty cool. I created a Spinner app which is a standalone that responds to AppleScript commands or Sockets. Since it is a standalone, it runs under it's own thread. I created internal commands to show or hide itself, as well as setting the displayed message. Using browser widgets seems a better implementation though. 

Bob S


> On May 2, 2023, at 08:23, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> It has long annoyed me that the spinner widget doesn’t actually spin when you need it to - during lockScreen or when a database fetch blocks everything. Animated gifs are no better.
> 
> Inspired by some comment over at the forum, I embarked on building myself a tool for crafting spinners animated in browser widgets, as those would continue spinning in a heavenly layer of its own, no matter what traffic jams occur down on LC ground level… 
> 
> Of course the project grew bigger than initially planned, as they do, and is not finished yet, as they never are - but at least I have something good enough to use, and good enough to share (I think).
> 
> The stack is designed for use it in the LC IDE, to craft the spinner (or whatever animation you want) and then copy the browser widget (or just the htmlText) to wherever you want to use it. The code is completely self-sufficient (html and css all crammed in). 
> One can obviously make any kind of repeating animation with it (within the limits of the current css animation lib), not only spinners. 
> 
> Here is a link to the gitHub rep:
> https://github.com/wheninspace/WIS_BrowserAnimation
> 
> And here is a web deployment of it (LC10 dp5), just to prove that the resulting code also works on web.
> https://wheninspace.com/browseranimation/
> (Make sure to click the "Show examples” button to see some cool examples… :)
> 
> Please let me know if you find it useful (or how to improve it, if it isn't).
> 
> /Andreas
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bogdanoff at me.com  Tue May  2 18:23:01 2023
From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 18:23:01 -0400
Subject: A spinner that keeps spinning
In-Reply-To: <0417C21C-5C82-4A20-BC0E-FC5B00A87B94@uni-wh.de>
References: <0417C21C-5C82-4A20-BC0E-FC5B00A87B94@uni-wh.de>
Message-ID: <74501A14-9FF2-443C-A72B-F955CE6DAA80@me.com>

This is great, thank you!

Peter Bogdanoff

> On May 2, 2023, at 2:43 PM, Niggemann, Bernd via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Andreas Bergendal wrote:
> 
>> Inspired by some comment over at the forum, I embarked on building myself a 
>> tool for crafting spinners animated in browser widgets, as those would continue 
>> spinning in a heavenly layer of its own, no matter what traffic jams occur down 
>> on LC ground level… 
> 
> Thank you for this amazing stack/WebApp.
> 
> It is very, very cool.
> 
> Kind regards
> Bernd
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue May  2 18:52:13 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 02 May 2023 17:52:13 -0500
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <29F847B2-0636-4462-826F-F473F773A439@starfirelighting.com>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
 <126B6BDF-626C-4EDC-92F2-2796D608EF2C@exformedia.se>
 <82F5C142-0548-4351-9781-EE3AFF8CE359@major-k.de>
 <F5D4790D-B6CD-4CD0-ACD2-B9370D93DE63@major-k.de>
 <187dd6791c8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <64F00104-F165-4853-8898-B64CA836A510@major-k.de>
 <3DCF70F5-0BA3-46C0-97C7-55EFA39FC595@starfirelighting.com>
 <0FDD9016-F168-45DF-B6BB-289C8DDAFBAB@major-k.de>
 <29F847B2-0636-4462-826F-F473F773A439@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <187deaa9148.2804.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

Well, it works better for *you*. I want info to come to me, I don't want to 
search. My right hand doesn't like all that clicking, I have a brace for 
that, and you can't navigate the forum from the keyboard. I want the digest 
to appear in my email where I can scan quickly and immediately jump to a 
post when I want to respond.

I don't care about all the unnecessary images and almost never download 
stacks from the forum so I don't miss them here. But also, most of the old 
timers are here on the list which can provide a wider pool of expertise.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 2, 2023 4:03:10 PM Craig Newman via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Klaus.
>
> It is a works-much-better thing. Script samples and quotes can be separated 
> from the main body of text. One can attach stacks and, for Richmond at 
> least, silly photos and art layouts. One can edit past posts, or even 
> delete them.
>
> One can search threads in many ways.  MANY.
>
> I was going to attach an emoji, but, well, we are in the use-list.
>
> Otherwise, nothing significant.
>
> Craig
>
>> On May 2, 2023, at 1:28 PM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Craig,
>>
>>> Am 02.05.2023 um 19:17 schrieb Craig Newman via use-livecode 
>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>
>>> Klaus.
>>>
>>> Come back from the dark side.
>>
>> I have no idea why you are so possessed by the forum, is it a fetish thing? :-D
>>
>> Here on the list I already see more than 10 postings to my question, try to 
>> outgun
>> this with the forum. 8-)
>>
>>> If you do I will send you the stack I made that seems to indicate that 
>>> openCard is sent after the visual effect terminates.
>>
>> Thank you, but I do not need any other example stack, I want to know it 
>> with my stack and I also want to know
>> why there are differences between the two ways of going to the next card 
>> with a visual effect. See my last mails...
>>
>>> Craig
>>>> On May 2, 2023, at 1:08 PM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode 
>>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi Jacque,
>>>>> Am 02.05.2023 um 18:59 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>>>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>>> Open the message watcher and compare its report to what you see on screen. 
>>>>> That might help.
>>>> I did and see this:
>>>> ...
>>>> preopencard 7:01:46 PM (0)
>>>> opencard 7:01:46 (3)
>>>> ...
>>>> I may be a bit slow, but what does the three millisecs difference tell me? 8-)
>>>> That everyting (pre- and opencard) does in fact happen AFTER the visual effect?
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Klaus
>>
>> --
>> Klaus Major
>> https://www.major-k.de
>> https://www.major-k.de/bass
>> klaus at major-k.de
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Tue May  2 18:56:04 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 22:56:04 +0000
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <187deaa9148.2804.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
 <126B6BDF-626C-4EDC-92F2-2796D608EF2C@exformedia.se>
 <82F5C142-0548-4351-9781-EE3AFF8CE359@major-k.de>
 <F5D4790D-B6CD-4CD0-ACD2-B9370D93DE63@major-k.de>
 <187dd6791c8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <64F00104-F165-4853-8898-B64CA836A510@major-k.de>
 <3DCF70F5-0BA3-46C0-97C7-55EFA39FC595@starfirelighting.com>
 <0FDD9016-F168-45DF-B6BB-289C8DDAFBAB@major-k.de>
 <29F847B2-0636-4462-826F-F473F773A439@starfirelighting.com>
 <187deaa9148.2804.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <2596BAD8-7E90-4FCB-B292-A805CC911D15@iotecdigital.com>

I can attest that as an old timer, if I am not very careful, I can provide a very wide pool. ;-)

Bob S

On May 2, 2023, at 15:52, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

Well, it works better for *you*. I want info to come to me, I don't want to search. My right hand doesn't like all that clicking, I have a brace for that, and you can't navigate the forum from the keyboard. I want the digest to appear in my email where I can scan quickly and immediately jump to a post when I want to respond.

I don't care about all the unnecessary images and almost never download stacks from the forum so I don't miss them here. But also, most of the old timers are here on the list which can provide a wider pool of expertise.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com<mailto:jacque at hyperactivesw.com>


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed May  3 00:25:50 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 02 May 2023 23:25:50 -0500
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <2596BAD8-7E90-4FCB-B292-A805CC911D15@iotecdigital.com>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
 <126B6BDF-626C-4EDC-92F2-2796D608EF2C@exformedia.se>
 <82F5C142-0548-4351-9781-EE3AFF8CE359@major-k.de>
 <F5D4790D-B6CD-4CD0-ACD2-B9370D93DE63@major-k.de>
 <187dd6791c8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <64F00104-F165-4853-8898-B64CA836A510@major-k.de>
 <3DCF70F5-0BA3-46C0-97C7-55EFA39FC595@starfirelighting.com>
 <0FDD9016-F168-45DF-B6BB-289C8DDAFBAB@major-k.de>
 <29F847B2-0636-4462-826F-F473F773A439@starfirelighting.com>
 <187deaa9148.2804.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <2596BAD8-7E90-4FCB-B292-A805CC911D15@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <187dfdc00b0.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

You and my husband should go have a drink together. ;)
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 2, 2023 5:58:07 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I can attest that as an old timer, if I am not very careful, I can provide 
> a very wide pool. ;-)





From roland.huettmann at gmail.com  Wed May  3 05:36:05 2023
From: roland.huettmann at gmail.com (R.H.)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2023 11:36:05 +0200
Subject: A spinner that keeps spinning
Message-ID: <CAG1Q0g9x6zhzyxhEqY-jvXk8GUf8GNtksrypeBUKD_f5R7-SNw@mail.gmail.com>

Andreas, a very nice work and helpful for many projects.

I habe tested your stack briefly on Windows 11 and so far, all is working
very well. I have never tested several browser widgets at once on one card.

Thank you.

Roland

From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Wed May  3 07:55:30 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2023 07:55:30 -0400
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <187dfdc00b0.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
 <126B6BDF-626C-4EDC-92F2-2796D608EF2C@exformedia.se>
 <82F5C142-0548-4351-9781-EE3AFF8CE359@major-k.de>
 <F5D4790D-B6CD-4CD0-ACD2-B9370D93DE63@major-k.de>
 <187dd6791c8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <64F00104-F165-4853-8898-B64CA836A510@major-k.de>
 <3DCF70F5-0BA3-46C0-97C7-55EFA39FC595@starfirelighting.com>
 <0FDD9016-F168-45DF-B6BB-289C8DDAFBAB@major-k.de>
 <29F847B2-0636-4462-826F-F473F773A439@starfirelighting.com>
 <187deaa9148.2804.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <2596BAD8-7E90-4FCB-B292-A805CC911D15@iotecdigital.com>
 <187dfdc00b0.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycOcmV5Xx7Y0Z+3DHtfMca06j4uufvVYyULUcFRmc5S3Hw@mail.gmail.com>

not on the forums.
the bigger brains are here.
less noise here
better behavior here

On Wed, May 3, 2023 at 12:27 AM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> You and my husband should go have a drink together. ;)
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On May 2, 2023 5:58:07 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode
> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > I can attest that as an old timer, if I am not very careful, I can
> provide
> > a very wide pool. ;-)
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From klaus at major-k.de  Wed May  3 08:25:16 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2023 14:25:16 +0200
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <64F00104-F165-4853-8898-B64CA836A510@major-k.de>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
 <126B6BDF-626C-4EDC-92F2-2796D608EF2C@exformedia.se>
 <82F5C142-0548-4351-9781-EE3AFF8CE359@major-k.de>
 <F5D4790D-B6CD-4CD0-ACD2-B9370D93DE63@major-k.de>
 <187dd6791c8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <64F00104-F165-4853-8898-B64CA836A510@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <31DB6D0E-7F1F-4A92-831F-7685D436FE2F@major-k.de>

Hi all,

> 
>> Am 02.05.2023 um 18:59 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Open the message watcher and compare its report to what you see on screen. That might help.
> 
> I did and see this:
> ...
> preopencard 7:01:46 PM (0)
> opencard 7:01:46 (3)
> ...
> I may be a bit slow, but what does the three millisecs difference tell me? 8-)
> That everyting (pre- and opencard) does in fact happen AFTER the visual effect?

any hints still welcome...


Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From craig at starfirelighting.com  Wed May  3 09:29:29 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2023 09:29:29 -0400
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <31DB6D0E-7F1F-4A92-831F-7685D436FE2F@major-k.de>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
 <126B6BDF-626C-4EDC-92F2-2796D608EF2C@exformedia.se>
 <82F5C142-0548-4351-9781-EE3AFF8CE359@major-k.de>
 <F5D4790D-B6CD-4CD0-ACD2-B9370D93DE63@major-k.de>
 <187dd6791c8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <64F00104-F165-4853-8898-B64CA836A510@major-k.de>
 <31DB6D0E-7F1F-4A92-831F-7685D436FE2F@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <DF5CF379-B0AB-4832-8BA0-A0BC03DE2C6E@starfirelighting.com>

Klaus.

That was fun.

Oh yes, the point of this thread.  To me it seems that preOpenCard is sent before, and openCard is sent after the effect terminates. The fact that you have 0 and 3 ticks is no different than having 0 and 125 ticks, The speed of the visual effect is not pertinent.

Well, except for the speed of the visual effect. -;)

Note pitiful “wink” emoji above.

Craig

> On May 3, 2023, at 8:25 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
>> 
>>> Am 02.05.2023 um 18:59 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> Open the message watcher and compare its report to what you see on screen. That might help.
>> 
>> I did and see this:
>> ...
>> preopencard 7:01:46 PM (0)
>> opencard 7:01:46 (3)
>> ...
>> I may be a bit slow, but what does the three millisecs difference tell me? 8-)
>> That everyting (pre- and opencard) does in fact happen AFTER the visual effect?
> 
> any hints still welcome...
> 
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From klaus at major-k.de  Wed May  3 11:35:13 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2023 17:35:13 +0200
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <DF5CF379-B0AB-4832-8BA0-A0BC03DE2C6E@starfirelighting.com>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
 <126B6BDF-626C-4EDC-92F2-2796D608EF2C@exformedia.se>
 <82F5C142-0548-4351-9781-EE3AFF8CE359@major-k.de>
 <F5D4790D-B6CD-4CD0-ACD2-B9370D93DE63@major-k.de>
 <187dd6791c8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <64F00104-F165-4853-8898-B64CA836A510@major-k.de>
 <31DB6D0E-7F1F-4A92-831F-7685D436FE2F@major-k.de>
 <DF5CF379-B0AB-4832-8BA0-A0BC03DE2C6E@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <10EBE68B-1CD4-448D-B396-1365AF75A25D@major-k.de>

Hi Craig,

> Am 03.05.2023 um 15:29 schrieb Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Klaus.
> 
> That was fun.

WAS? :-D

> Oh yes, the point of this thread.  To me it seems that preOpenCard is sent before, and openCard is sent after the effect terminates.

Obviously not, take another look at my results from the Message Watcher:
...
preopencard 7:01:46 PM (0)
opencard 7:01:46 (3)
...
Three milliseconds, not ticks, difference for a visual effect with the "effectrate" set to 300?
It LOOKS like 300 milliseconds, but definitively not like 3 millseconds.
That would be a tiny flashing, if at all.

So what is wrong here?
the effectrate?
the message watcher?
openCard is sent after the effect terminates? The above results show the opposite. 
Not?

Problem for me ist to measure the time until the user hits a key after a question 
appears on the screen on the card. 
And I start this on "opencard", so the VISUAL effect, what the user really sees,
MUST have been terminated, but obviously "opencard" does not respect this.
Or am I completely wrong here? Wouldn't be the first time...

As a workaround I'll leave the visual effect out, temporarily. 8-)

> The fact that you have 0 and 3 ticks

> is no different than having 0 and 125 ticks, The speed of the visual effect is not pertinent.
> Well, except for the speed of the visual effect. -;)
> Note pitiful “wink” emoji above.

Nudge, nudge! :-D

> Craig

Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com  Wed May  3 13:44:15 2023
From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2023 19:44:15 +0200
Subject: A spinner that keeps spinning
Message-ID: <FD7F3D2F-8E5A-454E-84E4-E404851CE5B1@gmail.com>

Thanks everyone for testing it and for your kind comments. :D

I have now updated the tool with the possibility to set the duration of the animations. This is quite good, as many of the animation effects are rather frantic, but with this new ability to slow them down they become more useful in my opinion.

Also, combining two animation effects becomes more interesting now when you can balance their durations independently, making for more varied movements.

And even better, I have also added… *drumroll* … more fish!
Eh, in the examples sections that is. It really is worth another visit to the web deployment just to see the fish, I promise! And the crab (proving that the animations continue during the move command too… ;-)

/Andreas

From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Wed May  3 13:48:40 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2023 13:48:40 -0400
Subject: A spinner that keeps spinning
In-Reply-To: <FD7F3D2F-8E5A-454E-84E4-E404851CE5B1@gmail.com>
References: <FD7F3D2F-8E5A-454E-84E4-E404851CE5B1@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycMoyxAUKvHkD23u=1PTB8oHmEpvzEMc5qjqE4mebvKXxw@mail.gmail.com>

Until there are threads
we have Andreas

On Wed, May 3, 2023 at 1:45 PM Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Thanks everyone for testing it and for your kind comments. :D
>
> I have now updated the tool with the possibility to set the duration of
> the animations. This is quite good, as many of the animation effects are
> rather frantic, but with this new ability to slow them down they become
> more useful in my opinion.
>
> Also, combining two animation effects becomes more interesting now when
> you can balance their durations independently, making for more varied
> movements.
>
> And even better, I have also added… *drumroll* … more fish!
> Eh, in the examples sections that is. It really is worth another visit to
> the web deployment just to see the fish, I promise! And the crab (proving
> that the animations continue during the move command too… ;-)
>
> /Andreas
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Wed May  3 13:57:10 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2023 18:57:10 +0100
Subject: A spinner that keeps spinning
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycMoyxAUKvHkD23u=1PTB8oHmEpvzEMc5qjqE4mebvKXxw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <FD7F3D2F-8E5A-454E-84E4-E404851CE5B1@gmail.com>
 <CADCoycMoyxAUKvHkD23u=1PTB8oHmEpvzEMc5qjqE4mebvKXxw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <266773E9-D9EB-4D2F-A59C-983E560A916B@gmail.com>

Indeed! Nice work Andreas.

> On 3 May 2023, at 6:48 pm, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Until there are threads
> we have Andreas
> 
> On Wed, May 3, 2023 at 1:45 PM Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Thanks everyone for testing it and for your kind comments. :D
>> 
>> I have now updated the tool with the possibility to set the duration of
>> the animations. This is quite good, as many of the animation effects are
>> rather frantic, but with this new ability to slow them down they become
>> more useful in my opinion.
>> 
>> Also, combining two animation effects becomes more interesting now when
>> you can balance their durations independently, making for more varied
>> movements.
>> 
>> And even better, I have also added… *drumroll* … more fish!
>> Eh, in the examples sections that is. It really is worth another visit to
>> the web deployment just to see the fish, I promise! And the crab (proving
>> that the animations continue during the move command too… ;-)
>> 
>> /Andreas
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>   and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From jiml at netrin.com  Wed May  3 14:18:03 2023
From: jiml at netrin.com (Jim Lambert)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2023 11:18:03 -0700
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1683129602.355193.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.1.1683129602.355193.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <14856126-1A8E-4550-BEB4-A0CC869921A5@netrin.com>

> Problem for me ist to measure the time until the user hits a key after a question 
> appears on the screen on the card. 
> And I start this on "opencard", so the VISUAL effect, what the user really sees,
> MUST have been terminated, but obviously "opencard" does not respect this.

If the visual effect may be compromising your very critical timing perhaps you should eliminate the visual effect.
Just go card and start timing upon opencard.

Jim Lambert

From klaus at major-k.de  Wed May  3 14:59:03 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2023 20:59:03 +0200
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <14856126-1A8E-4550-BEB4-A0CC869921A5@netrin.com>
References: <mailman.1.1683129602.355193.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <14856126-1A8E-4550-BEB4-A0CC869921A5@netrin.com>
Message-ID: <FEA3986C-C892-494A-BB5D-0EF4E1992507@major-k.de>

Hi Jim,

> Am 03.05.2023 um 20:18 schrieb Jim Lambert via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
>> Problem for me ist to measure the time until the user hits a key after a question 
>> appears on the screen on the card. 
>> And I start this on "opencard", so the VISUAL effect, what the user really sees,
>> MUST have been terminated, but obviously "opencard" does not respect this.
> If the visual effect may be compromising your very critical timing perhaps you should eliminate the visual effect.
> Just go card and start timing upon opencard.

you may have missed this in my last posting:
...
As a workaround I'll leave the visual effect out, temporarily.
...
:-)

> Jim Lambert

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From craig at starfirelighting.com  Wed May  3 15:07:52 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2023 15:07:52 -0400
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <FEA3986C-C892-494A-BB5D-0EF4E1992507@major-k.de>
References: <mailman.1.1683129602.355193.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <14856126-1A8E-4550-BEB4-A0CC869921A5@netrin.com>
 <FEA3986C-C892-494A-BB5D-0EF4E1992507@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <9020253E-7276-434E-9B6F-E823C9C919EC@starfirelighting.com>

Klaus.

I never use visual effects, though I played with them a lot in about 1988. They are “blocking” in some sense, so I think you are beat served by losing them entirely in your planning.

Craig

> On May 3, 2023, at 2:59 PM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Jim,
> 
>> Am 03.05.2023 um 20:18 schrieb Jim Lambert via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>>> Problem for me ist to measure the time until the user hits a key after a question 
>>> appears on the screen on the card. 
>>> And I start this on "opencard", so the VISUAL effect, what the user really sees,
>>> MUST have been terminated, but obviously "opencard" does not respect this.
>> If the visual effect may be compromising your very critical timing perhaps you should eliminate the visual effect.
>> Just go card and start timing upon opencard.
> 
> you may have missed this in my last posting:
> ...
> As a workaround I'll leave the visual effect out, temporarily.
> ...
> :-)
> 
>> Jim Lambert
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From paul at researchware.com  Wed May  3 16:24:45 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2023 16:24:45 -0400
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <14856126-1A8E-4550-BEB4-A0CC869921A5@netrin.com>
References: <mailman.1.1683129602.355193.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <14856126-1A8E-4550-BEB4-A0CC869921A5@netrin.com>
Message-ID: <8501dae5-ddbd-db4f-f38a-07b1b184ffb8@researchware.com>

If I have followed this thread:
1) Klaus executes a go to <card> with a visual effect using an effect 
rate of X millisecs
2) Klaus need to start a time on how long the user of the app has to 
answer a question once the card is displayed

I believe the order is:
1) preOpencard handler (if one) is executed
2) card is rendered in the window using the visual effect but the 
openCard handler (if one) is executed starting effectively at the same 
time as the visual effect based rendering of the card in the window 
takes place.

So starting the timer at the time "openCard" starts + the length of the 
effectRate of the visual effect used in the GO would represent when the 
user can expect to see the whole card.

So if the user has 5 seconds to answer the question and the effectRate 
was set to 500 millisecs then the start time of openCard + 500ms is when 
to start the counter for a  second reply.

Disclaimers: Depending upon the specific effect chosen and the placement 
of the question on the card, the user may be able to read the question a 
few millisec before the effect is done or even many millisec before the 
effect is done.

I don't think there is any way to have absolutely precise timing.





From klaus at major-k.de  Wed May  3 16:48:46 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2023 22:48:46 +0200
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <8501dae5-ddbd-db4f-f38a-07b1b184ffb8@researchware.com>
References: <mailman.1.1683129602.355193.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <14856126-1A8E-4550-BEB4-A0CC869921A5@netrin.com>
 <8501dae5-ddbd-db4f-f38a-07b1b184ffb8@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <CE480A4F-ADAB-416B-A55C-9E21069B449E@major-k.de>

Hi Pauil,

> Am 03.05.2023 um 22:24 schrieb Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> If I have followed this thread:
> 1) Klaus executes a go to <card> with a visual effect using an effect rate of X millisecs
> 2) Klaus need to start a time on how long the user of the app has to answer a question once the card is displayed
> I believe the order is:
> 1) preOpencard handler (if one) is executed
> 2) card is rendered in the window using the visual effect but the openCard handler (if one) is executed starting effectively at the same time as the visual effect based rendering of the card in the window takes place.
> So starting the timer at the time "openCard" starts + the length of the effectRate of the visual effect used in the GO would represent when the user can expect to see the whole card.
> So if the user has 5 seconds to answer the question and the effectRate was set to 500 millisecs then the start time of openCard + 500ms is when to start the counter for a  second reply.
> Disclaimers: Depending upon the specific effect chosen and the placement of the question on the card, the user may be able to read the question a few millisec before the effect is done or even many millisec before the effect is done.

thank you for your explanation, makes a lot of sense!

> I don't think there is any way to have absolutely precise timing.

Yep, I leave this oit and go directly to the card now.


Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From jiml at netrin.com  Thu May  4 13:35:36 2023
From: jiml at netrin.com (Jim Lambert)
Date: Thu, 4 May 2023 10:35:36 -0700
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1683216001.299272.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.1.1683216001.299272.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <00304983-DAA3-44F2-A94D-6C2E09958632@netrin.com>

> 
> you may have missed this in my last posting:

Klaus,

Indeed I did.

JimL

P.S. Another possibility you could also fake a transition. Then start your timer in the openCard handler of your destination card. 

In starting card:

on fakeTransition
	lock screen
	import snapshot from rectangle (the rect of next card) of next card
	put it into tempImage
	set the blendlevel of tempImage to 100
	unlock screen

	repeat with x = 100 down to 0 step -10
		set the blendlevel of tempImage to x
		wait 10 ticks with messages
	end repeat

	lock screen
	delete tempImage
	go next
end fakeTransition

In destination card:

on openCard
	startTimer
end openCard

From klaus at major-k.de  Thu May  4 17:38:48 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 4 May 2023 23:38:48 +0200
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <00304983-DAA3-44F2-A94D-6C2E09958632@netrin.com>
References: <mailman.1.1683216001.299272.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <00304983-DAA3-44F2-A94D-6C2E09958632@netrin.com>
Message-ID: <96CC6867-93E7-437C-9414-D3788D4C7C6D@major-k.de>

Hi Jim,

> Am 04.05.2023 um 19:35 schrieb Jim Lambert via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> you may have missed this in my last posting:
> 
> Klaus,
> 
> Indeed I did.
> 
> JimL
> 
> P.S. Another possibility you could also fake a transition. Then start your timer in the openCard handler of your destination card. 
> 
> In starting card:
> on fakeTransition
> 	lock screen
> 	import snapshot from rectangle (the rect of next card) of next card
> 	put it into tempImage
> 	set the blendlevel of tempImage to 100
> 	unlock screen
> 	repeat with x = 100 down to 0 step -10
> 		set the blendlevel of tempImage to x
> 		wait 10 ticks with messages
> 	end repeat
> 	lock screen
> 	delete tempImage
> 	go next
> end fakeTransition
> 
> In destination card:
> on openCard
> 	startTimer
> end openCard

thanks, but now I will navigate to the "timer" card without visual effect (real or fake).
My customer said that is OK. :-)


Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat May  6 17:05:33 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 6 May 2023 16:05:33 -0500
Subject: Default cursor
Message-ID: <02c16f42-7941-9dbb-18b0-301baac8dcd8@hyperactivesw.com>

I'm working on a stack that needs a default cursor. Sometimes it sets the cursor to none, but 
after that I can't get it back. Could someone verify?

Do this in the message box:

    set the defaultCursor to hand <cr>
    set the cursor to none; wait 1 second; set the cursor to hand

It doesn't come back. I also tried this:

    set the cursor to none; wait 1 second; set the cursor to the defaultcursor

Anyone have a workaround? (To get the regular cursor back after testing, "set the defaultcursor 
to empty".)

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From scott at elementarysoftware.com  Sat May  6 17:23:48 2023
From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (scott at elementarysoftware.com)
Date: Sat, 6 May 2023 14:23:48 -0700
Subject: Default cursor
In-Reply-To: <02c16f42-7941-9dbb-18b0-301baac8dcd8@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <02c16f42-7941-9dbb-18b0-301baac8dcd8@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <F147DAA1-D552-4AC8-8F81-7635BF745F46@elementarysoftware.com>

I’m getting the same thing. Putting the “none” cursor over the tool pallet gets the tools to hilite… but no cursor. Moving the “none” cursor to the message box (I started with it over an empty stack window) causes the “hand" cursor to establish without any additional scripting.

LC 9.6.9 stable  MBP M2Pro Ventura13.3.1(a)


> On May 6, 2023, at 2:05 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I'm working on a stack that needs a default cursor. Sometimes it sets the cursor to none, but after that I can't get it back. Could someone verify?
> 
> Do this in the message box:
> 
>   set the defaultCursor to hand <cr>
>   set the cursor to none; wait 1 second; set the cursor to hand
> 
> It doesn't come back. I also tried this:
> 
>   set the cursor to none; wait 1 second; set the cursor to the defaultcursor
> 
> Anyone have a workaround? (To get the regular cursor back after testing, "set the defaultcursor to empty".)
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sat May  6 17:39:38 2023
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2023 00:39:38 +0300
Subject: Default cursor
In-Reply-To: <02c16f42-7941-9dbb-18b0-301baac8dcd8@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <02c16f42-7941-9dbb-18b0-301baac8dcd8@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <b6afc453-12f7-9354-7571-d08956a06e91@gmail.com>

Sorry, Jacque: taking this across to the forums as want pictures and 
whatnot.

Love, Richmond.

On 7.05.23 0:05, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
> I'm working on a stack that needs a default cursor. Sometimes it sets 
> the cursor to none, but after that I can't get it back. Could someone 
> verify?
>
> Do this in the message box:
>
>    set the defaultCursor to hand <cr>
>    set the cursor to none; wait 1 second; set the cursor to hand
>
> It doesn't come back. I also tried this:
>
>    set the cursor to none; wait 1 second; set the cursor to the 
> defaultcursor
>
> Anyone have a workaround? (To get the regular cursor back after 
> testing, "set the defaultcursor to empty".)
>


From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sat May  6 17:51:55 2023
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2023 00:51:55 +0300
Subject: Default cursor
In-Reply-To: <02c16f42-7941-9dbb-18b0-301baac8dcd8@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <02c16f42-7941-9dbb-18b0-301baac8dcd8@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <e8ed605c-0106-8d94-6563-7a8807f14422@gmail.com>

AND, there (on the forums) I have found a way to get things to do what 
you want.

On 7.05.23 0:05, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
> I'm working on a stack that needs a default cursor. Sometimes it sets 
> the cursor to none, but after that I can't get it back. Could someone 
> verify?
>
> Do this in the message box:
>
>    set the defaultCursor to hand <cr>
>    set the cursor to none; wait 1 second; set the cursor to hand
>
> It doesn't come back. I also tried this:
>
>    set the cursor to none; wait 1 second; set the cursor to the 
> defaultcursor
>
> Anyone have a workaround? (To get the regular cursor back after 
> testing, "set the defaultcursor to empty".) 


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat May  6 19:08:26 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 6 May 2023 18:08:26 -0500
Subject: Default cursor
In-Reply-To: <e8ed605c-0106-8d94-6563-7a8807f14422@gmail.com>
References: <02c16f42-7941-9dbb-18b0-301baac8dcd8@hyperactivesw.com>
 <e8ed605c-0106-8d94-6563-7a8807f14422@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5dc3d75c-877d-6c4f-75bf-7c63b64fed25@hyperactivesw.com>

On 5/6/23 4:51 PM, Richmond via use-livecode wrote:
> AND, there (on the forums) I have found a way to get things to do what you want.

Please reply here, I have chosen my preferred venue. Images and downloads are unnecessary.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat May  6 19:15:47 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 6 May 2023 18:15:47 -0500
Subject: Default cursor
In-Reply-To: <F147DAA1-D552-4AC8-8F81-7635BF745F46@elementarysoftware.com>
References: <02c16f42-7941-9dbb-18b0-301baac8dcd8@hyperactivesw.com>
 <F147DAA1-D552-4AC8-8F81-7635BF745F46@elementarysoftware.com>
Message-ID: <2a4a830b-9af4-53aa-f72d-ea2997d57df4@hyperactivesw.com>

On 5/6/23 4:23 PM, scott--- via use-livecode wrote:
> I’m getting the same thing. Putting the “none” cursor over the tool pallet gets the tools to hilite… but no cursor. Moving the “none” cursor to the message box (I started with it over an empty stack window) causes the “hand" cursor to establish without any additional scripting.
> 
> LC 9.6.9 stable  MBP M2Pro Ventura13.3.1(a)

Thanks. I've found if you swipe the mouse over the script editor, or the dock, or another 
window it comes back. Basically, sweep the mouse erratically all over the screen until it hits 
something it recognizes. But I can't expect users to do that.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From scott at elementarysoftware.com  Sat May  6 21:21:31 2023
From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (scott at elementarysoftware.com)
Date: Sat, 6 May 2023 18:21:31 -0700
Subject: Default cursor
In-Reply-To: <2a4a830b-9af4-53aa-f72d-ea2997d57df4@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <02c16f42-7941-9dbb-18b0-301baac8dcd8@hyperactivesw.com>
 <F147DAA1-D552-4AC8-8F81-7635BF745F46@elementarysoftware.com>
 <2a4a830b-9af4-53aa-f72d-ea2997d57df4@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <36D389AB-CCDA-4914-83C9-0296B5560917@elementarysoftware.com>

Yeah, an interesting clue but not much of a workaround. Does this happen in a standalone or is it an IDE only issue…? (30 seconds later) Ick! Standalone, too and there seems to be even fewer things to interact with to get the cursor back. Clicking the menuBar works.
--
Scott Morrow

Elementary Software
(Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
web       https://elementarysoftware.com/
email     scott at elementarysoftware.com
booth    1-360-734-4701
------------------------------------------------------



> On May 6, 2023, at 4:15 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> On 5/6/23 4:23 PM, scott--- via use-livecode wrote:
>> I’m getting the same thing. Putting the “none” cursor over the tool pallet gets the tools to hilite… but no cursor. Moving the “none” cursor to the message box (I started with it over an empty stack window) causes the “hand" cursor to establish without any additional scripting.
>> LC 9.6.9 stable  MBP M2Pro Ventura13.3.1(a)
> 
> Thanks. I've found if you swipe the mouse over the script editor, or the dock, or another window it comes back. Basically, sweep the mouse erratically all over the screen until it hits something it recognizes. But I can't expect users to do that.
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sun May  7 03:58:43 2023
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2023 10:58:43 +0300
Subject: Default cursor
In-Reply-To: <5dc3d75c-877d-6c4f-75bf-7c63b64fed25@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <02c16f42-7941-9dbb-18b0-301baac8dcd8@hyperactivesw.com>
 <e8ed605c-0106-8d94-6563-7a8807f14422@gmail.com>
 <5dc3d75c-877d-6c4f-75bf-7c63b64fed25@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <58a3ca4e-e0af-4c5d-c482-9807efc29437@gmail.com>

Is that a fact?

Surely when someone offers help it seems churlish to set conditions.

On 7.05.23 2:08, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
> On 5/6/23 4:51 PM, Richmond via use-livecode wrote:
>> AND, there (on the forums) I have found a way to get things to do 
>> what you want.
>
> Please reply here, I have chosen my preferred venue. Images and 
> downloads are unnecessary.
>


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun May  7 12:30:32 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 07 May 2023 11:30:32 -0500
Subject: Default cursor
In-Reply-To: <58a3ca4e-e0af-4c5d-c482-9807efc29437@gmail.com>
References: <02c16f42-7941-9dbb-18b0-301baac8dcd8@hyperactivesw.com>
 <e8ed605c-0106-8d94-6563-7a8807f14422@gmail.com>
 <5dc3d75c-877d-6c4f-75bf-7c63b64fed25@hyperactivesw.com>
 <58a3ca4e-e0af-4c5d-c482-9807efc29437@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <187f70cec40.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

Apologies, I was in fact in a churlish mood. You should have seen what I 
wrote before I edited it.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 7, 2023 3:01:05 AM Richmond via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Is that a fact?
>
> Surely when someone offers help it seems churlish to set conditions.
>
> On 7.05.23 2:08, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
>> On 5/6/23 4:51 PM, Richmond via use-livecode wrote:
>>> AND, there (on the forums) I have found a way to get things to do
>>> what you want.
>>
>> Please reply here, I have chosen my preferred venue. Images and
>> downloads are unnecessary.
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun May  7 13:32:27 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 07 May 2023 12:32:27 -0500
Subject: Default cursor
In-Reply-To: <36D389AB-CCDA-4914-83C9-0296B5560917@elementarysoftware.com>
References: <02c16f42-7941-9dbb-18b0-301baac8dcd8@hyperactivesw.com>
 <F147DAA1-D552-4AC8-8F81-7635BF745F46@elementarysoftware.com>
 <2a4a830b-9af4-53aa-f72d-ea2997d57df4@hyperactivesw.com>
 <36D389AB-CCDA-4914-83C9-0296B5560917@elementarysoftware.com>
Message-ID: <187f7459bf8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

I suppose I could create a custom cursor set and replace the arrow with the 
custom cursor. LC does recover from "none" if a default cursor isn't set. 
I've never done a custom cursor set though so if anyone else has, I'd 
appreciate any tips.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 6, 2023 8:23:57 PM scott--- via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Yeah, an interesting clue but not much of a workaround. Does this happen in 
> a standalone or is it an IDE only issue? (30 seconds later) Ick! 
> Standalone, too and there seems to be even fewer things to interact with to 
> get the cursor back. Clicking the menuBar works.
> --
> Scott Morrow
>
> Elementary Software
> (Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
> web       https://elementarysoftware.com/
> email     scott at elementarysoftware.com
> booth    1-360-734-4701
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>> On May 6, 2023, at 4:15 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 5/6/23 4:23 PM, scott--- via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Im getting the same thing. Putting the none cursor over the tool pallet 
>>> gets the tools to hilite but no cursor. Moving the none cursor to the 
>>> message box (I started with it over an empty stack window) causes the 
>>> hand" cursor to establish without any additional scripting.
>>> LC 9.6.9 stable  MBP M2Pro Ventura13.3.1(a)
>>
>> Thanks. I've found if you swipe the mouse over the script editor, or the 
>> dock, or another window it comes back. Basically, sweep the mouse 
>> erratically all over the screen until it hits something it recognizes. But 
>> I can't expect users to do that.
>>
>> --
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Sun May  7 14:01:15 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2023 20:01:15 +0200
Subject: Default cursor
In-Reply-To: <187f7459bf8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <02c16f42-7941-9dbb-18b0-301baac8dcd8@hyperactivesw.com>
 <F147DAA1-D552-4AC8-8F81-7635BF745F46@elementarysoftware.com>
 <2a4a830b-9af4-53aa-f72d-ea2997d57df4@hyperactivesw.com>
 <36D389AB-CCDA-4914-83C9-0296B5560917@elementarysoftware.com>
 <187f7459bf8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <6AFADE0A-79B1-4D81-A544-89C032C84AF2@m-r-d.de>

I just did a quick test.
I downloaded a svg from Font Awesome website and imported it using "Import as Control -> image file " from file menu.
After that i could access that image and set the cursor to it.
But you have to resize the image to your preferred size either after importing or at least before using it as a cursor.

HTH

Matthias

> Am 07.05.2023 um 19:32 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> I suppose I could create a custom cursor set and replace the arrow with the custom cursor. LC does recover from "none" if a default cursor isn't set. I've never done a custom cursor set though so if anyone else has, I'd appreciate any tips.
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On May 6, 2023 8:23:57 PM scott--- via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Yeah, an interesting clue but not much of a workaround. Does this happen in a standalone or is it an IDE only issue…? (30 seconds later) Ick! Standalone, too and there seems to be even fewer things to interact with to get the cursor back. Clicking the menuBar works.
>> --
>> Scott Morrow
>> 
>> Elementary Software
>> (Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
>> web       https://elementarysoftware.com/
>> email     scott at elementarysoftware.com
>> booth    1-360-734-4701
>> ------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On May 6, 2023, at 4:15 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> On 5/6/23 4:23 PM, scott--- via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> I’m getting the same thing. Putting the “none” cursor over the tool pallet gets the tools to hilite… but no cursor. Moving the “none” cursor to the message box (I started with it over an empty stack window) causes the “hand" cursor to establish without any additional scripting.
>>>> LC 9.6.9 stable  MBP M2Pro Ventura13.3.1(a)
>>> 
>>> Thanks. I've found if you swipe the mouse over the script editor, or the dock, or another window it comes back. Basically, sweep the mouse erratically all over the screen until it hits something it recognizes. But I can't expect users to do that.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun May  7 15:16:19 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 07 May 2023 14:16:19 -0500
Subject: Default cursor
In-Reply-To: <6AFADE0A-79B1-4D81-A544-89C032C84AF2@m-r-d.de>
References: <02c16f42-7941-9dbb-18b0-301baac8dcd8@hyperactivesw.com>
 <F147DAA1-D552-4AC8-8F81-7635BF745F46@elementarysoftware.com>
 <2a4a830b-9af4-53aa-f72d-ea2997d57df4@hyperactivesw.com>
 <36D389AB-CCDA-4914-83C9-0296B5560917@elementarysoftware.com>
 <187f7459bf8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <6AFADE0A-79B1-4D81-A544-89C032C84AF2@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <187f7a4b3b8.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

I have an imported image to use as a custom cursor and it works. But I'm 
not sure how to create a custom cursor set. Maybe I can just replace the 
arrow in the built-in set. Or maybe a set is just a stack? That's what the 
revCursors are.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 7, 2023 1:03:20 PM matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I just did a quick test.
> I downloaded a svg from Font Awesome website and imported it using "Import 
> as Control -> image file " from file menu.
> After that i could access that image and set the cursor to it.
> But you have to resize the image to your preferred size either after 
> importing or at least before using it as a cursor.
>
> HTH
>
> Matthias
>
>> Am 07.05.2023 um 19:32 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>
>> I suppose I could create a custom cursor set and replace the arrow with the 
>> custom cursor. LC does recover from "none" if a default cursor isn't set. 
>> I've never done a custom cursor set though so if anyone else has, I'd 
>> appreciate any tips.
>> --
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>> On May 6, 2023 8:23:57 PM scott--- via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah, an interesting clue but not much of a workaround. Does this happen in 
>>> a standalone or is it an IDE only issue? (30 seconds later) Ick! 
>>> Standalone, too and there seems to be even fewer things to interact with to 
>>> get the cursor back. Clicking the menuBar works.
>>> --
>>> Scott Morrow
>>>
>>> Elementary Software
>>> (Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
>>> web       https://elementarysoftware.com/
>>> email     scott at elementarysoftware.com
>>> booth    1-360-734-4701
>>> ------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On May 6, 2023, at 4:15 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 5/6/23 4:23 PM, scott--- via use-livecode wrote:
>>>>> Im getting the same thing. Putting the none cursor over the tool pallet 
>>>>> gets the tools to hilite but no cursor. Moving the none cursor to the 
>>>>> message box (I started with it over an empty stack window) causes the 
>>>>> hand" cursor to establish without any additional scripting.
>>>>> LC 9.6.9 stable  MBP M2Pro Ventura13.3.1(a)
>>>>
>>>> Thanks. I've found if you swipe the mouse over the script editor, or the 
>>>> dock, or another window it comes back. Basically, sweep the mouse 
>>>> erratically all over the screen until it hits something it recognizes. But 
>>>> I can't expect users to do that.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>>>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun May  7 15:32:06 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 07 May 2023 14:32:06 -0500
Subject: Default cursor
In-Reply-To: <187f7a4b3b8.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <02c16f42-7941-9dbb-18b0-301baac8dcd8@hyperactivesw.com>
 <F147DAA1-D552-4AC8-8F81-7635BF745F46@elementarysoftware.com>
 <2a4a830b-9af4-53aa-f72d-ea2997d57df4@hyperactivesw.com>
 <36D389AB-CCDA-4914-83C9-0296B5560917@elementarysoftware.com>
 <187f7459bf8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <6AFADE0A-79B1-4D81-A544-89C032C84AF2@m-r-d.de>
 <187f7a4b3b8.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <187f7b326f0.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

So, reading the dictionary entry for "reset cursors" it looks like you 
can't create your own set, you can only change the built-in set. The 
problem with that is that I will not have an arrow any more, no matter what 
I'm working on. I'll always get the custom cursor, even though I only want 
it to appear in one project. It sounds like there is no other option though.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 7, 2023 2:18:32 PM "J. Landman Gay via use-livecode" 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I have an imported image to use as a custom cursor and it works. But I'm
> not sure how to create a custom cursor set. Maybe I can just replace the
> arrow in the built-in set. Or maybe a set is just a stack? That's what the
> revCursors are.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On May 7, 2023 1:03:20 PM matthias rebbe via use-livecode
> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> I just did a quick test.
>> I downloaded a svg from Font Awesome website and imported it using "Import
>> as Control -> image file " from file menu.
>> After that i could access that image and set the cursor to it.
>> But you have to resize the image to your preferred size either after
>> importing or at least before using it as a cursor.
>>
>> HTH
>>
>> Matthias
>>
>>> Am 07.05.2023 um 19:32 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>
>>> I suppose I could create a custom cursor set and replace the arrow with the
>>> custom cursor. LC does recover from "none" if a default cursor isn't set.
>>> I've never done a custom cursor set though so if anyone else has, I'd
>>> appreciate any tips.
>>> --
>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>> On May 6, 2023 8:23:57 PM scott--- via use-livecode
>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yeah, an interesting clue but not much of a workaround. Does this happen in
>>>> a standalone or is it an IDE only issue? (30 seconds later) Ick!
>>>> Standalone, too and there seems to be even fewer things to interact with to
>>>> get the cursor back. Clicking the menuBar works.
>>>> --
>>>> Scott Morrow
>>>>
>>>> Elementary Software
>>>> (Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
>>>> web       https://elementarysoftware.com/
>>>> email     scott at elementarysoftware.com
>>>> booth    1-360-734-4701
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On May 6, 2023, at 4:15 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
>>>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On 5/6/23 4:23 PM, scott--- via use-livecode wrote:
>>>>>> Im getting the same thing. Putting the none cursor over the tool pallet
>>>>>> gets the tools to hilite but no cursor. Moving the none cursor to the
>>>>>> message box (I started with it over an empty stack window) causes the
>>>>>> hand" cursor to establish without any additional scripting.
>>>>>> LC 9.6.9 stable  MBP M2Pro Ventura13.3.1(a)
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks. I've found if you swipe the mouse over the script editor, or the
>>>>> dock, or another window it comes back. Basically, sweep the mouse
>>>>> erratically all over the screen until it hits something it recognizes. But
>>>>> I can't expect users to do that.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>>>>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun May  7 16:03:33 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2023 15:03:33 -0500
Subject: Default cursor
In-Reply-To: <187f7b326f0.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <02c16f42-7941-9dbb-18b0-301baac8dcd8@hyperactivesw.com>
 <F147DAA1-D552-4AC8-8F81-7635BF745F46@elementarysoftware.com>
 <2a4a830b-9af4-53aa-f72d-ea2997d57df4@hyperactivesw.com>
 <36D389AB-CCDA-4914-83C9-0296B5560917@elementarysoftware.com>
 <187f7459bf8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <6AFADE0A-79B1-4D81-A544-89C032C84AF2@m-r-d.de>
 <187f7a4b3b8.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <187f7b326f0.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <2ebe5957-0ee1-3b4b-707e-00a63bf29048@hyperactivesw.com>

On 5/7/23 2:32 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
> So, reading the dictionary entry for "reset cursors" it looks like you can't create your own 
> set, you can only change the built-in set.

I changed the arrow cursor in the revMacCursors stack, saved, and relaunched LC. It still shows 
the arrow, which I assume is the system arrow. So, no go.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From jerry at jhjensen.com  Sun May  7 17:39:15 2023
From: jerry at jhjensen.com (Jerry Jensen)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2023 14:39:15 -0700
Subject: Hunting Default Preferences
Message-ID: <A683DE77-E51A-4F9B-AC7C-EA2B658B698A@jhjensen.com>

Hi folks,

I am returning to LiveCode after a spell of other projects, including debugging others’ LC code.

I find myself with a predicament - on launch of LC (no stack, just the LC app) I get a backdrop of off-white when I need none.
I have no idea how this got changed (never underestimate fatfingers).
There is probably a preference file somewhere that will let me change it back to the way it was (none) but I can’t seem to find it. 
I have looked everywhere that seems reasonable, but that is clearly not enough.

Its easy enough to put:
set the backdrop to none
in each mainstack opencard handler, but that is annoying at best.

Where should I look?

Regards,
Jerry Jensen
M1 MacBook Pro, OS 13.3.1 LC 9.6.9

From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Sun May  7 17:58:42 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2023 23:58:42 +0200
Subject: Hunting Default Preferences
In-Reply-To: <A683DE77-E51A-4F9B-AC7C-EA2B658B698A@jhjensen.com>
References: <A683DE77-E51A-4F9B-AC7C-EA2B658B698A@jhjensen.com>
Message-ID: <95FD4DD3-C2DF-462E-9ACE-B1DBAC8F4B22@m-r-d.de>

Jerry,

did you already try to delete the LC preference file?

The function revEnvironmentUserPreferencesPath()
returns the path to the preferences file.



> Am 07.05.2023 um 23:39 schrieb Jerry Jensen via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi folks,
> 
> I am returning to LiveCode after a spell of other projects, including debugging others’ LC code.
> 
> I find myself with a predicament - on launch of LC (no stack, just the LC app) I get a backdrop of off-white when I need none.
> I have no idea how this got changed (never underestimate fatfingers).
> There is probably a preference file somewhere that will let me change it back to the way it was (none) but I can’t seem to find it. 
> I have looked everywhere that seems reasonable, but that is clearly not enough.
> 
> Its easy enough to put:
> set the backdrop to none
> in each mainstack opencard handler, but that is annoying at best.
> 
> Where should I look?
> 
> Regards,
> Jerry Jensen
> M1 MacBook Pro, OS 13.3.1 LC 9.6.9
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From iowahengst at mac.com  Sun May  7 18:03:46 2023
From: iowahengst at mac.com (Randy Hengst)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2023 17:03:46 -0500
Subject: Hunting Default Preferences
In-Reply-To: <95FD4DD3-C2DF-462E-9ACE-B1DBAC8F4B22@m-r-d.de>
References: <A683DE77-E51A-4F9B-AC7C-EA2B658B698A@jhjensen.com>
 <95FD4DD3-C2DF-462E-9ACE-B1DBAC8F4B22@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <46E32A27-A489-4FEF-B2F8-EFE72625635E@mac.com>

You should be able to go to the View menu and toggle off backdrop.

take care,
randy

> On May 7, 2023, at 4:58 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Jerry,
> 
> did you already try to delete the LC preference file?
> 
> The function revEnvironmentUserPreferencesPath()
> returns the path to the preferences file.
> 
> 
> 
>> Am 07.05.2023 um 23:39 schrieb Jerry Jensen via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Hi folks,
>> 
>> I am returning to LiveCode after a spell of other projects, including debugging others’ LC code.
>> 
>> I find myself with a predicament - on launch of LC (no stack, just the LC app) I get a backdrop of off-white when I need none.
>> I have no idea how this got changed (never underestimate fatfingers).
>> There is probably a preference file somewhere that will let me change it back to the way it was (none) but I can’t seem to find it. 
>> I have looked everywhere that seems reasonable, but that is clearly not enough.
>> 
>> Its easy enough to put:
>> set the backdrop to none
>> in each mainstack opencard handler, but that is annoying at best.
>> 
>> Where should I look?
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Jerry Jensen
>> M1 MacBook Pro, OS 13.3.1 LC 9.6.9
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From jerry at jhjensen.com  Sun May  7 18:20:30 2023
From: jerry at jhjensen.com (Jerry Jensen)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2023 15:20:30 -0700
Subject: Hunting Default Preferences
In-Reply-To: <46E32A27-A489-4FEF-B2F8-EFE72625635E@mac.com>
References: <A683DE77-E51A-4F9B-AC7C-EA2B658B698A@jhjensen.com>
 <95FD4DD3-C2DF-462E-9ACE-B1DBAC8F4B22@m-r-d.de>
 <46E32A27-A489-4FEF-B2F8-EFE72625635E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <7AFC507D-8478-4694-9620-DF0884DD9DE1@jhjensen.com>

Oh that is TOO easy. No wonder I couldn’t find it!
Onward!
Thanks,
Jerry

> On May 7, 2023, at 3:03 PM, Randy Hengst via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> You should be able to go to the View menu and toggle off backdrop.
> 
> take care,
> randy
> 
>> On May 7, 2023, at 4:58 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Jerry,
>> 
>> did you already try to delete the LC preference file?
>> 
>> The function revEnvironmentUserPreferencesPath()
>> returns the path to the preferences file.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> Am 07.05.2023 um 23:39 schrieb Jerry Jensen via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> Hi folks,
>>> 
>>> I am returning to LiveCode after a spell of other projects, including debugging others’ LC code.
>>> 
>>> I find myself with a predicament - on launch of LC (no stack, just the LC app) I get a backdrop of off-white when I need none.
>>> I have no idea how this got changed (never underestimate fatfingers).
>>> There is probably a preference file somewhere that will let me change it back to the way it was (none) but I can’t seem to find it. 
>>> I have looked everywhere that seems reasonable, but that is clearly not enough.
>>> 
>>> Its easy enough to put:
>>> set the backdrop to none
>>> in each mainstack opencard handler, but that is annoying at best.
>>> 
>>> Where should I look?
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Jerry Jensen
>>> M1 MacBook Pro, OS 13.3.1 LC 9.6.9
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From jerry at jhjensen.com  Sun May  7 18:23:05 2023
From: jerry at jhjensen.com (Jerry Jensen)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2023 15:23:05 -0700
Subject: Hunting Default Preferences
In-Reply-To: <95FD4DD3-C2DF-462E-9ACE-B1DBAC8F4B22@m-r-d.de>
References: <A683DE77-E51A-4F9B-AC7C-EA2B658B698A@jhjensen.com>
 <95FD4DD3-C2DF-462E-9ACE-B1DBAC8F4B22@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <3A416E8D-7892-4355-A385-6FB121F6EB83@jhjensen.com>

That’s what I was looking for - the location of the LC preference file.
Actually Randy Hengst wisely advised me that the View menu has a toggle for the backdrop. . .    DUH!
Thanks,
Jerry

> On May 7, 2023, at 2:58 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Jerry,
> 
> did you already try to delete the LC preference file?
> 
> The function revEnvironmentUserPreferencesPath()
> returns the path to the preferences file.
> 
> 
> 
>> Am 07.05.2023 um 23:39 schrieb Jerry Jensen via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Hi folks,
>> 
>> I am returning to LiveCode after a spell of other projects, including debugging others’ LC code.
>> 
>> I find myself with a predicament - on launch of LC (no stack, just the LC app) I get a backdrop of off-white when I need none.
>> I have no idea how this got changed (never underestimate fatfingers).
>> There is probably a preference file somewhere that will let me change it back to the way it was (none) but I can’t seem to find it. 
>> I have looked everywhere that seems reasonable, but that is clearly not enough.
>> 
>> Its easy enough to put:
>> set the backdrop to none
>> in each mainstack opencard handler, but that is annoying at best.
>> 
>> Where should I look?
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Jerry Jensen
>> M1 MacBook Pro, OS 13.3.1 LC 9.6.9
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From paul at researchware.com  Tue May  9 19:30:00 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Tue, 9 May 2023 19:30:00 -0400
Subject: Inclusions and JSON
Message-ID: <5c416166-33ab-5ca3-692a-a9278d8c67ac@researchware.com>

I have a stack that serves as a plugin for our app. The plugin stack 
makes some calls using jsonToArray

The external stack alone in the LC 9.6.9 IDE works perfectly. The 
external plugin stack opened in our app in LC 9.6.9 IDE works perfectly. 
The external plugin stack opening in the standalone of our app, 
generates the error:

Function: error in function handler: jsonToArray (Line 61, column 8)
put: error in expression:  (Line 61, column 8)

Line 61 is just:   put jsonToArray(it) into tResponseA

There are other controls that work in the IDE and fail with the lines 
that include the jsonToArray call in the standalone. I do manual 
inclusions in the Standalone settings since the plugins are external 
stacks loaded into the standalone by user command. Automatic inclusions 
won't find the not-yet-loaded external stacks to find the JSON library 
calls. I have included the JSON Library in the inclusions list in my 
app's standalone settings.

Is there any other library that must be included for me to use 
jsonToArray? I am not a json literate person. I am just using copied 
code. Also, is there any debugging to be sure the JSON library was 
actually included in the standalone (the check box in the Standalone 
setting is set!)

Thank you for any guidance on this issue.





From paul at researchware.com  Tue May  9 19:57:26 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Tue, 9 May 2023 19:57:26 -0400
Subject: Inclusions and JSON
In-Reply-To: <5c416166-33ab-5ca3-692a-a9278d8c67ac@researchware.com>
References: <5c416166-33ab-5ca3-692a-a9278d8c67ac@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <7f73ff84-3ba8-a657-7712-e6735d87a002@researchware.com>

NEVER MIND.

I just realized that JSONToArray is part of the mergeJSON library and 
not part of the JSON library! Dear Livecode: For the JSON ignorant among 
us, could we just have one JSON library - by whatever name!


On 5/9/2023 7:30 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
> I have a stack that serves as a plugin for our app. The plugin stack 
> makes some calls using jsonToArray
>
> The external stack alone in the LC 9.6.9 IDE works perfectly. The 
> external plugin stack opened in our app in LC 9.6.9 IDE works 
> perfectly. The external plugin stack opening in the standalone of our 
> app, generates the error:
>
> Function: error in function handler: jsonToArray (Line 61, column 8)
> put: error in expression:  (Line 61, column 8)
>
> Line 61 is just:   put jsonToArray(it) into tResponseA
>
> There are other controls that work in the IDE and fail with the lines 
> that include the jsonToArray call in the standalone. I do manual 
> inclusions in the Standalone settings since the plugins are external 
> stacks loaded into the standalone by user command. Automatic 
> inclusions won't find the not-yet-loaded external stacks to find the 
> JSON library calls. I have included the JSON Library in the inclusions 
> list in my app's standalone settings.
>
> Is there any other library that must be included for me to use 
> jsonToArray? I am not a json literate person. I am just using copied 
> code. Also, is there any debugging to be sure the JSON library was 
> actually included in the standalone (the check box in the Standalone 
> setting is set!)
>
> Thank you for any guidance on this issue.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From heather at livecode.com  Wed May 10 07:37:05 2023
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2023 12:37:05 +0100
Subject: AMA today at 5
Message-ID: <767B4A31-9D84-41BA-9E99-857C33B16D83@livecode.com>

Hi folks,

Just in case anyone missed it, you have another opportunity to ask the team live questions this afternoon at 5pm (our time). Thats 12 noon in New York, or 9am in Los Angeles. We've made this an open session, you don't have to register in advance, and you can follow either in Zoom:

https://us02web.zoom.us/j/86437878174?pwd=NVdNaDYvc3ZCUFlvK3gwL0pOenhrUT09

or on Youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idEvGr31ElI <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idEvGr31ElI>

There were so many questions in the last session, we didn't get through them all. We're going to give it another shot!

Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com




From benr at cogapp.com  Wed May 10 09:56:06 2023
From: benr at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2023 14:56:06 +0100
Subject: Inclusions and JSON
In-Reply-To: <7f73ff84-3ba8-a657-7712-e6735d87a002@researchware.com>
References: <5c416166-33ab-5ca3-692a-a9278d8c67ac@researchware.com>
 <7f73ff84-3ba8-a657-7712-e6735d87a002@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <e97bede4-5666-d22a-d8ed-8ef9b442814c@cogapp.com>

Further to this: dear LiveCode, please make the Inclusions selector in the 
standalone settings window navigable - at least sortable by name, platform, 
selected; even-better-if can be filtered.

See also https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18199, which includes a 
comment in 2017 specifically referencing 'json' as a use-case for filtering.

And apparently Ali Lloyd did exactly this six years ago:
https://github.com/livecode/livecode-ide/pull/1809

... but nobody has ever reviewed the pull request.

:-(

Ben


On 10/05/2023 00:57, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
> NEVER MIND.
> 
> I just realized that JSONToArray is part of the mergeJSON library and not part 
> of the JSON library! Dear Livecode: For the JSON ignorant among us, could we 
> just have one JSON library - by whatever name!
> 
> 
> On 5/9/2023 7:30 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
>> I have a stack that serves as a plugin for our app. The plugin stack makes 
>> some calls using jsonToArray
>>
>> The external stack alone in the LC 9.6.9 IDE works perfectly. The external 
>> plugin stack opened in our app in LC 9.6.9 IDE works perfectly. The external 
>> plugin stack opening in the standalone of our app, generates the error:
>>
>> Function: error in function handler: jsonToArray (Line 61, column 8)
>> put: error in expression:  (Line 61, column 8)
>>
>> Line 61 is just:   put jsonToArray(it) into tResponseA
>>
>> There are other controls that work in the IDE and fail with the lines that 
>> include the jsonToArray call in the standalone. I do manual inclusions in 
>> the Standalone settings since the plugins are external stacks loaded into 
>> the standalone by user command. Automatic inclusions won't find the 
>> not-yet-loaded external stacks to find the JSON library calls. I have 
>> included the JSON Library in the inclusions list in my app's standalone 
>> settings.
>>
>> Is there any other library that must be included for me to use jsonToArray? 
>> I am not a json literate person. I am just using copied code. Also, is there 
>> any debugging to be sure the JSON library was actually included in the 
>> standalone (the check box in the Standalone setting is set!)
>>
>> Thank you for any guidance on this issue.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed May 10 11:18:49 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2023 10:18:49 -0500
Subject: Inclusions and JSON
In-Reply-To: <e97bede4-5666-d22a-d8ed-8ef9b442814c@cogapp.com>
References: <5c416166-33ab-5ca3-692a-a9278d8c67ac@researchware.com>
 <7f73ff84-3ba8-a657-7712-e6735d87a002@researchware.com>
 <e97bede4-5666-d22a-d8ed-8ef9b442814c@cogapp.com>
Message-ID: <188063e57a8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

Oh god yes. Please, please. I can never find anything in there.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 10, 2023 8:58:23 AM Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Further to this: dear LiveCode, please make the Inclusions selector in the
> standalone settings window navigable - at least sortable by name, platform,
> selected; even-better-if can be filtered.
>
> See also https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18199, which includes a
> comment in 2017 specifically referencing 'json' as a use-case for filtering.
>
> And apparently Ali Lloyd did exactly this six years ago:
> https://github.com/livecode/livecode-ide/pull/1809
>
> ... but nobody has ever reviewed the pull request.
>
> :-(
>
> Ben




From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Wed May 10 15:14:17 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2023 20:14:17 +0100
Subject: Inclusions and JSON
In-Reply-To: <e97bede4-5666-d22a-d8ed-8ef9b442814c@cogapp.com>
References: <5c416166-33ab-5ca3-692a-a9278d8c67ac@researchware.com>
 <7f73ff84-3ba8-a657-7712-e6735d87a002@researchware.com>
 <e97bede4-5666-d22a-d8ed-8ef9b442814c@cogapp.com>
Message-ID: <B06743DF-E5AD-41A0-9476-91D926DEB8CE@gmail.com>

I’d be happy to just have it sort by name. 

> On 10 May 2023, at 2:56 pm, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Further to this: dear LiveCode, please make the Inclusions selector in the standalone settings window navigable - at least sortable by name, platform, selected; even-better-if can be filtered.


From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Wed May 10 15:33:43 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2023 21:33:43 +0200
Subject: Inclusions and JSON
In-Reply-To: <B06743DF-E5AD-41A0-9476-91D926DEB8CE@gmail.com>
References: <5c416166-33ab-5ca3-692a-a9278d8c67ac@researchware.com>
 <7f73ff84-3ba8-a657-7712-e6735d87a002@researchware.com>
 <e97bede4-5666-d22a-d8ed-8ef9b442814c@cogapp.com>
 <B06743DF-E5AD-41A0-9476-91D926DEB8CE@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EE9FDAC4-C4D7-4CCB-A268-D3D9A5958C88@m-r-d.de>

Me too and, if not yet completely fixed, the supported platforms correctly shown.

> Am 10.05.2023 um 21:14 schrieb Mark Smith via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> I’d be happy to just have it sort by name. 
> 
>> On 10 May 2023, at 2:56 pm, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Further to this: dear LiveCode, please make the Inclusions selector in the standalone settings window navigable - at least sortable by name, platform, selected; even-better-if can be filtered.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From craig at starfirelighting.com  Wed May 10 16:51:10 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2023 16:51:10 -0400
Subject: Cannot make a standalone after upgrading to Mac Mini and Ventura
Message-ID: <17341127-436F-48B8-9403-50D39804E550@starfirelighting.com>

All.
Help
I got a new Mac Mini a month ago. Lovely. Working with LC on it. Lovely.

I tried to make a windows standalone from the same project I have for years. In the Applications Settings I cannot select the Windows pane. It is essentially disabled, and looks like it.

In fact, I cannot select any pane except the Mac one. The Mac standalone proceeds as usual, but there is nothing done on the Windows side.

I made a brand new stack. Same issue; only the Mac pane is accessible.

Before I put the splash stack and the mainStack on a thumb drive and reload them back on my old iMac to make an updated standalone, is it me or Ventura?

Craig


From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Wed May 10 16:58:39 2023
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2023 16:58:39 -0400
Subject: Cannot make a standalone after upgrading to Mac Mini and Ventura
In-Reply-To: <17341127-436F-48B8-9403-50D39804E550@starfirelighting.com>
References: <17341127-436F-48B8-9403-50D39804E550@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <009d01d98382$35884350$a098c9f0$@net>

I had this happen when I had more than one license. One old and a new with
"pro". I picked the one(default) without the "pro" features and had only a
couple of platforms. I relicensed selected "pro" and had all platforms.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net


-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
Of Craig Newman via use-livecode
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2023 4:51 PM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Craig Newman
Subject: Cannot make a standalone after upgrading to Mac Mini and Ventura

All.
Help
I got a new Mac Mini a month ago. Lovely. Working with LC on it. Lovely.

I tried to make a windows standalone from the same project I have for years.
In the Applications Settings I cannot select the Windows pane. It is
essentially disabled, and looks like it.

In fact, I cannot select any pane except the Mac one. The Mac standalone
proceeds as usual, but there is nothing done on the Windows side.

I made a brand new stack. Same issue; only the Mac pane is accessible.

Before I put the splash stack and the mainStack on a thumb drive and reload
them back on my old iMac to make an updated standalone, is it me or Ventura?

Craig

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From heather at livecode.com  Thu May 11 04:09:04 2023
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 09:09:04 +0100
Subject: Cannot make a standalone after upgrading to Mac Mini and Ventura
In-Reply-To: <17341127-436F-48B8-9403-50D39804E550@starfirelighting.com>
References: <17341127-436F-48B8-9403-50D39804E550@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <D9174D30-77A8-47DA-A6DA-6C12DC162FE5@livecode.com>

You probably need to switch licenses. This lesson may be helpful:

https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4072/l/1542014-i-have-a-valid-license-but-lc-says-it-is-expiring <https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4072/l/1542014-i-have-a-valid-license-but-lc-says-it-is-expiring>

If that doesn't solve it please email support :)

Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 10 May 2023, at 21:51, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> All.
> Help
> I got a new Mac Mini a month ago. Lovely. Working with LC on it. Lovely.
> 
> I tried to make a windows standalone from the same project I have for years. In the Applications Settings I cannot select the Windows pane. It is essentially disabled, and looks like it.
> 
> In fact, I cannot select any pane except the Mac one. The Mac standalone proceeds as usual, but there is nothing done on the Windows side.
> 
> I made a brand new stack. Same issue; only the Mac pane is accessible.
> 
> Before I put the splash stack and the mainStack on a thumb drive and reload them back on my old iMac to make an updated standalone, is it me or Ventura?
> 
> Craig
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From craig at starfirelighting.com  Thu May 11 09:11:36 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 09:11:36 -0400
Subject: Cannot make a standalone after upgrading to Mac Mini and Ventura
In-Reply-To: <D9174D30-77A8-47DA-A6DA-6C12DC162FE5@livecode.com>
References: <17341127-436F-48B8-9403-50D39804E550@starfirelighting.com>
 <D9174D30-77A8-47DA-A6DA-6C12DC162FE5@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <7EBC469C-1BD9-4722-B07F-0CFBB0E30659@starfirelighting.com>

Heather.

THANK YOU. That worked.

Not that I care much, but was it Ventura or the new machine itself that required re-licensing? 

Ralph.

Thanks to you as well.

Craig

> On May 11, 2023, at 4:09 AM, Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> You probably need to switch licenses. This lesson may be helpful:
> 
> https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4072/l/1542014-i-have-a-valid-license-but-lc-says-it-is-expiring <https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4072/l/1542014-i-have-a-valid-license-but-lc-says-it-is-expiring>
> 
> If that doesn't solve it please email support :)
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On 10 May 2023, at 21:51, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> All.
>> Help
>> I got a new Mac Mini a month ago. Lovely. Working with LC on it. Lovely.
>> 
>> I tried to make a windows standalone from the same project I have for years. In the Applications Settings I cannot select the Windows pane. It is essentially disabled, and looks like it.
>> 
>> In fact, I cannot select any pane except the Mac one. The Mac standalone proceeds as usual, but there is nothing done on the Windows side.
>> 
>> I made a brand new stack. Same issue; only the Mac pane is accessible.
>> 
>> Before I put the splash stack and the mainStack on a thumb drive and reload them back on my old iMac to make an updated standalone, is it me or Ventura?
>> 
>> Craig
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From craig at starfirelighting.com  Thu May 11 09:16:53 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 09:16:53 -0400
Subject: Cannot make a standalone after upgrading to Mac Mini and Ventura
In-Reply-To: <009d01d98382$35884350$a098c9f0$@net>
References: <17341127-436F-48B8-9403-50D39804E550@starfirelighting.com>
 <009d01d98382$35884350$a098c9f0$@net>
Message-ID: <3140B589-A245-468C-8AF3-0C1373F5C5D3@starfirelighting.com>

What a GREAT community this is here on the use-list.

Craig

> On May 10, 2023, at 4:58 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I had this happen when I had more than one license. One old and a new with
> "pro". I picked the one(default) without the "pro" features and had only a
> couple of platforms. I relicensed selected "pro" and had all platforms.
> 
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
> Of Craig Newman via use-livecode
> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2023 4:51 PM
> To: How to use LiveCode
> Cc: Craig Newman
> Subject: Cannot make a standalone after upgrading to Mac Mini and Ventura
> 
> All.
> Help
> I got a new Mac Mini a month ago. Lovely. Working with LC on it. Lovely.
> 
> I tried to make a windows standalone from the same project I have for years.
> In the Applications Settings I cannot select the Windows pane. It is
> essentially disabled, and looks like it.
> 
> In fact, I cannot select any pane except the Mac one. The Mac standalone
> proceeds as usual, but there is nothing done on the Windows side.
> 
> I made a brand new stack. Same issue; only the Mac pane is accessible.
> 
> Before I put the splash stack and the mainStack on a thumb drive and reload
> them back on my old iMac to make an updated standalone, is it me or Ventura?
> 
> Craig
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Thu May 11 09:36:41 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 15:36:41 +0200
Subject: generate an Array using value for naming the keys?
Message-ID: <BBA7FF7A-B21D-48A8-8DB9-F58CF9C35D04@m-r-d.de>

Hi,

once in a while i am struggling with value(). ;) 

I have the following problem.
I need to create an array which keys are something like this

wp_aa_old
wp_cd_old
wp_ek_old
wp_aa_new
wp_cd_new

and so on.

The middle part of the key names changes and there can be about 50 different "middle parts" and there are 10 main keys (after the middle part)
_content, _text _html and so on.

So without an idea i would have to create the code to fill all values for the array keys with the middle part aa and then the code  for the middle part cd and so on.

Is there a way to use value for this. So i could just add the middle part of the key name to a variable and use that then with value() to create and file the array?

I think i have done this before, but i might be wrong.

Regards,
Matthias



From mark at livecode.com  Thu May 11 10:36:39 2023
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 15:36:39 +0100
Subject: generate an Array using value for naming the keys?
In-Reply-To: <BBA7FF7A-B21D-48A8-8DB9-F58CF9C35D04@m-r-d.de>
References: <BBA7FF7A-B21D-48A8-8DB9-F58CF9C35D04@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <aeb21813a25aca18633aa51e48b3df81@livecode.com>

On 2023-05-11 14:36, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote:
> The middle part of the key names changes and there can be about 50 
> different "middle parts" and there are 10 main keys (after the middle 
> part)
> _content, _text _html and so on.
> 
> So without an idea i would have to create the code to fill all values 
> for the array keys with the middle part aa and then the code  for the 
> middle part cd and so on.
> 
> Is there a way to use value for this. So i could just add the middle 
> part of the key name to a variable and use that then with value() to 
> create and file the array?

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you are trying to do as you mention 
using value() for something which doesn't sound like it needs it...

Array keys can be arbitrary (string-valued) expressions - i.e. they 
don't have to be literal strings:

e.g. put tFoo["wp_" & tMiddlePart & "_" & tSuffix] into 
tMiddlePartSuffixValue

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things


From klaus at major-k.de  Thu May 11 10:45:38 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 16:45:38 +0200
Subject: Different default bg color of stacks Mac/Win
Message-ID: <C16BB07E-30C5-4162-9334-4FB2519B4EE4@major-k.de>

Hi friends,

this week I have been bitten again by the fact that the default bg color 
of a stack is different on a Mac an Windows!

If you don't set the bg color of a new stack on a Mac it will be WHITE.
If you then open that stack on Windows, the bg color is a light grey. :-/

See screenshot of a stack with two OPAQUE (and white) text fields created 
on Mac and opened on Windows. Surprise, surprise...

<https://www.dropbox.com/s/n58ahwlivvzygmy/windows_grey_bg.png?dl=0>

Is this a bug or feature? 
If a bug, should I create a report for that?


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Thu May 11 10:47:55 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 16:47:55 +0200
Subject: generate an Array using value for naming the keys?
In-Reply-To: <aeb21813a25aca18633aa51e48b3df81@livecode.com>
References: <BBA7FF7A-B21D-48A8-8DB9-F58CF9C35D04@m-r-d.de>
 <aeb21813a25aca18633aa51e48b3df81@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <EBFCFDD9-C42D-43B2-8484-80E3CE9D7A81@m-r-d.de>

Mark, thank you very much!

i didn't know or remember that the key name of an array can be created directly using strings and variables

Maybe i even did that in the past, but could not remember anymore. I really thought i have solved it that time with value()  :) 

Regards,
Matthias

> Am 11.05.2023 um 16:36 schrieb Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> On 2023-05-11 14:36, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote:
>> The middle part of the key names changes and there can be about 50 different "middle parts" and there are 10 main keys (after the middle part)
>> _content, _text _html and so on.
>> So without an idea i would have to create the code to fill all values for the array keys with the middle part aa and then the code  for the middle part cd and so on.
>> Is there a way to use value for this. So i could just add the middle part of the key name to a variable and use that then with value() to create and file the array?
> 
> Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you are trying to do as you mention using value() for something which doesn't sound like it needs it...
> 
> Array keys can be arbitrary (string-valued) expressions - i.e. they don't have to be literal strings:
> 
> e.g. put tFoo["wp_" & tMiddlePart & "_" & tSuffix] into tMiddlePartSuffixValue
> 
> Warmest Regards,
> 
> Mark.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Build Amazing Things
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From mark at livecode.com  Thu May 11 10:49:32 2023
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 15:49:32 +0100
Subject: Different default bg color of stacks Mac/Win
In-Reply-To: <C16BB07E-30C5-4162-9334-4FB2519B4EE4@major-k.de>
References: <C16BB07E-30C5-4162-9334-4FB2519B4EE4@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <ea93bccd8b97891830f55534fdfe5726@livecode.com>

On 2023-05-11 15:45, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
> See screenshot of a stack with two OPAQUE (and white) text fields 
> created
> on Mac and opened on Windows. Surprise, surprise...
> 
> <https://www.dropbox.com/s/n58ahwlivvzygmy/windows_grey_bg.png?dl=0>
> 
> Is this a bug or feature?
> If a bug, should I create a report for that?

Not a bug - the default is to use 'native' themes on desktop platforms, 
and that also
influences the background color of a stack.

If you don't want that - then you need to explicitly set the background 
color.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things


From mark at livecode.com  Thu May 11 10:51:09 2023
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 15:51:09 +0100
Subject: generate an Array using value for naming the keys?
In-Reply-To: <EBFCFDD9-C42D-43B2-8484-80E3CE9D7A81@m-r-d.de>
References: <BBA7FF7A-B21D-48A8-8DB9-F58CF9C35D04@m-r-d.de>
 <aeb21813a25aca18633aa51e48b3df81@livecode.com>
 <EBFCFDD9-C42D-43B2-8484-80E3CE9D7A81@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <3833a4d0940549f977565a21e1bb2f8c@livecode.com>

On 2023-05-11 15:47, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote:
> Mark, thank you very much!
> 
> i didn't know or remember that the key name of an array can be created 
> directly using strings and variables
> 
> Maybe i even did that in the past, but could not remember anymore. I 
> really thought i have solved it that time with value()  :)

No problem - of course, I used & in my example - but when I'm doing 
stuff like that I tend to use format:

put tFoo[format("wp_%s_%s", tMiddlePart, tSuffix)] into 
tMiddlePartSuffixValue

It does the same job, but I find it more readable (as the structure of 
the string can be seen immediately without having to wade through quotes 
and ampersands :)

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things


From klaus at major-k.de  Thu May 11 10:51:31 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 16:51:31 +0200
Subject: Different default bg color of stacks Mac/Win
In-Reply-To: <ea93bccd8b97891830f55534fdfe5726@livecode.com>
References: <C16BB07E-30C5-4162-9334-4FB2519B4EE4@major-k.de>
 <ea93bccd8b97891830f55534fdfe5726@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <066BDE97-1DD9-4C1D-9042-5EE8FAC5A8C4@major-k.de>

Hi Mark,

> Am 11.05.2023 um 16:49 schrieb Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> On 2023-05-11 15:45, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>> See screenshot of a stack with two OPAQUE (and white) text fields created
>> on Mac and opened on Windows. Surprise, surprise...
>> <https://www.dropbox.com/s/n58ahwlivvzygmy/windows_grey_bg.png?dl=0>
>> Is this a bug or feature?
>> If a bug, should I create a report for that?
> 
> Not a bug - the default is to use 'native' themes on desktop platforms, and that also
> influences the background color of a stack.

aha, thanks for the quick answer. Is this documented somewhere?

> If you don't want that - then you need to explicitly set the background color.

NOW I know and will never forget! :-)

> Warmest Regards,
> 
> Mark.

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From mark at livecode.com  Thu May 11 10:54:43 2023
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 15:54:43 +0100
Subject: Different default bg color of stacks Mac/Win
In-Reply-To: <066BDE97-1DD9-4C1D-9042-5EE8FAC5A8C4@major-k.de>
References: <C16BB07E-30C5-4162-9334-4FB2519B4EE4@major-k.de>
 <ea93bccd8b97891830f55534fdfe5726@livecode.com>
 <066BDE97-1DD9-4C1D-9042-5EE8FAC5A8C4@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <725a23283633f654545cc6085db83f38@livecode.com>

On 2023-05-11 15:51, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi Mark,
> 
>> Am 11.05.2023 um 16:49 schrieb Mark Waddingham via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> On 2023-05-11 15:45, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>>> See screenshot of a stack with two OPAQUE (and white) text fields 
>>> created
>>> on Mac and opened on Windows. Surprise, surprise...
>>> <https://www.dropbox.com/s/n58ahwlivvzygmy/windows_grey_bg.png?dl=0>
>>> Is this a bug or feature?
>>> If a bug, should I create a report for that?
>> 
>> Not a bug - the default is to use 'native' themes on desktop 
>> platforms, and that also
>> influences the background color of a stack.
> 
> aha, thanks for the quick answer. Is this documented somewhere?

Yes - in the dictionary entry for the backgroundColor property of 
objects:

```
Cross-platform note: On Mac OS, OS X, and Windows systems, if the 
backgroundColor of all objects in the object hierarchy is empty, the 
background color set by the system is used.
```

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things


From klaus at major-k.de  Thu May 11 10:55:53 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 16:55:53 +0200
Subject: Different default bg color of stacks Mac/Win
In-Reply-To: <725a23283633f654545cc6085db83f38@livecode.com>
References: <C16BB07E-30C5-4162-9334-4FB2519B4EE4@major-k.de>
 <ea93bccd8b97891830f55534fdfe5726@livecode.com>
 <066BDE97-1DD9-4C1D-9042-5EE8FAC5A8C4@major-k.de>
 <725a23283633f654545cc6085db83f38@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <162DFA5D-D6C4-41E6-A521-2F691CA3DE0F@major-k.de>

Hi Mark,

> Am 11.05.2023 um 16:54 schrieb Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> On 2023-05-11 15:51, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hi Mark,
>>> Am 11.05.2023 um 16:49 schrieb Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> On 2023-05-11 15:45, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> See screenshot of a stack with two OPAQUE (and white) text fields created
>>>> on Mac and opened on Windows. Surprise, surprise...
>>>> <https://www.dropbox.com/s/n58ahwlivvzygmy/windows_grey_bg.png?dl=0>
>>>> Is this a bug or feature?
>>>> If a bug, should I create a report for that?
>>> Not a bug - the default is to use 'native' themes on desktop platforms, and that also
>>> influences the background color of a stack.
>> aha, thanks for the quick answer. Is this documented somewhere?
> 
> Yes - in the dictionary entry for the backgroundColor property of objects:
> ```
> Cross-platform note: On Mac OS, OS X, and Windows systems, if the backgroundColor of all objects in the object hierarchy is empty, the background color set by the system is used.
> ```

Aha, thank you!

> Warmest Regards,
> 
> Mark.

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From jbv at souslelogo.com  Thu May 11 10:55:28 2023
From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 10:55:28 -0400
Subject: [semi OT] mySQL question
Message-ID: <5e4347eed32d6cda59d5f7aef973c763@souslelogo.com>

Hi list,

This is a question for mySQL experts, which I am not.

I have a table of individuals.
I have another table of companies.

Many individuals have worked in more than 1 company with
different jobs descriptions.

I need to build my DB so that, with single requests, I
can get a list of either :
- all individuals who worked in a specific company with
the job description of each one
- all companies in which a specific individual has worked,
along with the job description he had in each company.

The main problem is that the tables might become huge with
the time (several Gb), so searching the tables might take
forever if not carefully built.

I guess I will need to use a third table for the job descriptions
and a combination of fulltext indexes and foreign keys
might do the trick, but my limited skills don't allow me
to find the best solution...

Any help will be much appreciated.
Thank you in advance.

jbv


From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Thu May 11 10:56:20 2023
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 10:56:20 -0400
Subject: generate an Array using value for naming the keys?
In-Reply-To: <3833a4d0940549f977565a21e1bb2f8c@livecode.com>
References: <BBA7FF7A-B21D-48A8-8DB9-F58CF9C35D04@m-r-d.de>
 <aeb21813a25aca18633aa51e48b3df81@livecode.com>
 <EBFCFDD9-C42D-43B2-8484-80E3CE9D7A81@m-r-d.de>
 <3833a4d0940549f977565a21e1bb2f8c@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <002601d98418$c28c0ca0$47a425e0$@net>

Mark,
I will start doing this. I have a headache just thinking of the last time I
had some complex keys and trying to read the code with the afore mentioned
quotes and ampersands. Learn something new every day. 

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
Of Mark Waddingham via use-livecode
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2023 10:51 AM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Mark Waddingham
Subject: Re: generate an Array using value for naming the keys?

On 2023-05-11 15:47, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote:
> Mark, thank you very much!
> 
> i didn't know or remember that the key name of an array can be created 
> directly using strings and variables
> 
> Maybe i even did that in the past, but could not remember anymore. I 
> really thought i have solved it that time with value()  :)

No problem - of course, I used & in my example - but when I'm doing stuff
like that I tend to use format:

put tFoo[format("wp_%s_%s", tMiddlePart, tSuffix)] into
tMiddlePartSuffixValue

It does the same job, but I find it more readable (as the structure of the
string can be seen immediately without having to wade through quotes and
ampersands :)

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

--
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Thu May 11 11:27:28 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 17:27:28 +0200
Subject: generate an Array using value for naming the keys?
In-Reply-To: <3833a4d0940549f977565a21e1bb2f8c@livecode.com>
References: <BBA7FF7A-B21D-48A8-8DB9-F58CF9C35D04@m-r-d.de>
 <aeb21813a25aca18633aa51e48b3df81@livecode.com>
 <EBFCFDD9-C42D-43B2-8484-80E3CE9D7A81@m-r-d.de>
 <3833a4d0940549f977565a21e1bb2f8c@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <698ADD4C-B8C1-4C88-8136-F8D3498725AA@m-r-d.de>

Thanks for this also. I will keep that in mind, but for now i will use the & syntax.

Format() is also a function i often struggle with. ;)

> Am 11.05.2023 um 16:51 schrieb Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> On 2023-05-11 15:47, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote:
>> Mark, thank you very much!
>> i didn't know or remember that the key name of an array can be created directly using strings and variables
>> Maybe i even did that in the past, but could not remember anymore. I really thought i have solved it that time with value()  :)
> 
> No problem - of course, I used & in my example - but when I'm doing stuff like that I tend to use format:
> 
> put tFoo[format("wp_%s_%s", tMiddlePart, tSuffix)] into tMiddlePartSuffixValue
> 
> It does the same job, but I find it more readable (as the structure of the string can be seen immediately without having to wade through quotes and ampersands :)
> 
> Warmest Regards,
> 
> Mark.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Build Amazing Things
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From craig at starfirelighting.com  Thu May 11 12:30:56 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 12:30:56 -0400
Subject: Am I using the best mail client?
Message-ID: <278EF17B-F6B0-411B-990D-6166A1E74568@starfirelighting.com>

Since I got real help here, and not on the forum(hmph), I am wondering if the eMail client I am using is one reason I do not prefer this venue.

I am using the native Mac “Mail’ client. Are there much better ones?

Craig

From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Thu May 11 12:40:33 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 18:40:33 +0200
Subject: Am I using the best mail client?
In-Reply-To: <278EF17B-F6B0-411B-990D-6166A1E74568@starfirelighting.com>
References: <278EF17B-F6B0-411B-990D-6166A1E74568@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <4A9C1DC8-9655-48BE-8DA9-3563FDFCE3E4@m-r-d.de>

I am using also the "normal" Mac Client w/o any problem with the use list.

I am accessing my email account using Imap protocoll and i created an email alias for the uselist and a subfolder to which the emails automatically are copied. 
So no mess in my main inbox and also a nice  and proper email folder just with Livecode use list emails.

Regards,
Matthias

> Am 11.05.2023 um 18:30 schrieb Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Since I got real help here, and not on the forum(hmph), I am wondering if the eMail client I am using is one reason I do not prefer this venue.
> 
> I am using the native Mac “Mail’ client. Are there much better ones?
> 
> Craig
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From 1anmldr1 at gmail.com  Thu May 11 13:02:31 2023
From: 1anmldr1 at gmail.com (Linda Miller)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 11:02:31 -0600
Subject: Old license etc.
Message-ID: <2C5C6A29-A93A-4FF4-A4B4-B7F2C441B0D4@gmail.com>

I have been away from coding for years. I have a LiveCode Hosting Lifetime License that, I think, I bought during one of LC’s campaigns for HTML5 to be built. 

Whatever happened with HTML5 and LC?
How can I find the “terms” that were listed for my Lifetime Hosting License? I believe that the terms are different than what you can purchase today. So, a link to today’s terms is not what I am looking for. I tried the Internet Archive but couldn’t find anything.

I know that lifetime commercial or business licenses for LC were available in the past. What are their terms? Would that license also cover XAVVI? Or, are they going to be separate products?

Linda

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu May 11 13:27:26 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 12:27:26 -0500
Subject: Am I using the best mail client?
In-Reply-To: <278EF17B-F6B0-411B-990D-6166A1E74568@starfirelighting.com>
References: <278EF17B-F6B0-411B-990D-6166A1E74568@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <1880bda7430.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

I use Thunderbird. Like Matthias, I set up a rule to move list mail into a 
subfolder where I can sort by date, author,, subject, or any other 
attribute. It supportsl threading. There are several layouts you can use 
depending on how you like to organize and view mail. You can color-code 
emails automatically on arrival, or manually if you want to mark one for 
special reasons. You can drag-drop mail from one folder to another even 
across accounts.

There are a lot of options so you can customize it however you want.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 11, 2023 11:33:31 AM Craig Newman via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Since I got real help here, and not on the forum(hmph), I am wondering if 
> the eMail client I am using is one reason I do not prefer this venue.
>
> I am using the native Mac Mail client. Are there much better ones?
>
> Craig
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From heather at livecode.com  Thu May 11 13:35:38 2023
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 18:35:38 +0100
Subject: Old license etc.
In-Reply-To: <2C5C6A29-A93A-4FF4-A4B4-B7F2C441B0D4@gmail.com>
References: <2C5C6A29-A93A-4FF4-A4B4-B7F2C441B0D4@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F95383D7-1091-4C88-BAE0-78D1CB1112F1@livecode.com>

Linda, please post your query to support at livecode.com and I'll be happy to help.

Best Regards,

Heather
Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 11 May 2023, at 18:02, Linda Miller via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I have been away from coding for years. I have a LiveCode Hosting Lifetime License that, I think, I bought during one of LC’s campaigns for HTML5 to be built. 
> 
> Whatever happened with HTML5 and LC?
> How can I find the “terms” that were listed for my Lifetime Hosting License? I believe that the terms are different than what you can purchase today. So, a link to today’s terms is not what I am looking for. I tried the Internet Archive but couldn’t find anything.
> 
> I know that lifetime commercial or business licenses for LC were available in the past. What are their terms? Would that license also cover XAVVI? Or, are they going to be separate products?
> 
> Linda
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From phil at pdslabs.net  Thu May 11 13:36:40 2023
From: phil at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 10:36:40 -0700
Subject: Am I using the best mail client?
In-Reply-To: <1880bda7430.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <278EF17B-F6B0-411B-990D-6166A1E74568@starfirelighting.com>
 <1880bda7430.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <cb11ecba-acd8-2768-170d-1fd41d280399@pdslabs.net>

Thunderbird for me as well, for all the reasons Jacque stated.

Phil Davis


On 5/11/23 10:27 AM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
> I use Thunderbird. Like Matthias, I set up a rule to move list mail 
> into a subfolder where I can sort by date, author,, subject, or any 
> other attribute. It supportsl threading. There are several layouts you 
> can use depending on how you like to organize and view mail. You can 
> color-code emails automatically on arrival, or manually if you want to 
> mark one for special reasons. You can drag-drop mail from one folder 
> to another even across accounts.
>
> There are a lot of options so you can customize it however you want.
>
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On May 11, 2023 11:33:31 AM Craig Newman via use-livecode 
> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> Since I got real help here, and not on the forum(hmph), I am 
>> wondering if the eMail client I am using is one reason I do not 
>> prefer this venue.
>>
>> I am using the native Mac Mail client. Are there much better ones?
>>
>> Craig
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

-- 
Phil Davis
(503) 307-4363



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Thu May 11 14:01:18 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 20:01:18 +0200
Subject: Old license etc.
In-Reply-To: <2C5C6A29-A93A-4FF4-A4B4-B7F2C441B0D4@gmail.com>
References: <2C5C6A29-A93A-4FF4-A4B4-B7F2C441B0D4@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6814C67D-12C4-4319-B0D4-D7C6E00E08E4@m-r-d.de>

Although Heather asked you to send your query to support I would like to chime in, as I think some of your questions are more general. ;)

I also have Livecode (aka On-Rev) lifetime hosting. This is just Webhosting but also with the possibility to use Livecode Server on that hosting account, even if you do not own a Livecode Server license or subscription.
According to the date when you've had  purchased the lifetime hosting package it includes either 100 or 50GB. That is definitely enough for hosting several web sites.;)

HTML5 is still in development and the progress which can be seen in LC 10DP4 or 5, is very promising.

Kevin stated that Xavvi is a separate product which has to be licensed separately because it's nature that it is more than a cloud service.
I think that is reasonable.
There was a Q&A yesterday about Xavvi which maybe of interest for you.
Since it is publicly available, i think it's okay if i post the Youtube link here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAHGn8PSdAA

Regards,
Matthias

> Am 11.05.2023 um 19:02 schrieb Linda Miller via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> I have been away from coding for years. I have a LiveCode Hosting Lifetime License that, I think, I bought during one of LC’s campaigns for HTML5 to be built. 
> 
> Whatever happened with HTML5 and LC?
> How can I find the “terms” that were listed for my Lifetime Hosting License? I believe that the terms are different than what you can purchase today. So, a link to today’s terms is not what I am looking for. I tried the Internet Archive but couldn’t find anything.
> 
> I know that lifetime commercial or business licenses for LC were available in the past. What are their terms? Would that license also cover XAVVI? Or, are they going to be separate products?
> 
> Linda
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Thu May 11 14:02:36 2023
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 21:02:36 +0300
Subject: Am I using the best mail client?
In-Reply-To: <cb11ecba-acd8-2768-170d-1fd41d280399@pdslabs.net>
References: <278EF17B-F6B0-411B-990D-6166A1E74568@starfirelighting.com>
 <1880bda7430.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <cb11ecba-acd8-2768-170d-1fd41d280399@pdslabs.net>
Message-ID: <CAL3fwtgWxyLSpRFv8NHPpe_5YEQsMmARvy4fMXHb0EM32_grDw@mail.gmail.com>

I use Betterbird, an improved split off from Thunderbird.

On Thu, 11 May 2023, 20:37 Phil Davis via use-livecode, <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Thunderbird for me as well, for all the reasons Jacque stated.
>
> Phil Davis
>
>
> On 5/11/23 10:27 AM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
> > I use Thunderbird. Like Matthias, I set up a rule to move list mail
> > into a subfolder where I can sort by date, author,, subject, or any
> > other attribute. It supportsl threading. There are several layouts you
> > can use depending on how you like to organize and view mail. You can
> > color-code emails automatically on arrival, or manually if you want to
> > mark one for special reasons. You can drag-drop mail from one folder
> > to another even across accounts.
> >
> > There are a lot of options so you can customize it however you want.
> >
> > --
> > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> > On May 11, 2023 11:33:31 AM Craig Newman via use-livecode
> > <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Since I got real help here, and not on the forum(hmph), I am
> >> wondering if the eMail client I am using is one reason I do not
> >> prefer this venue.
> >>
> >> I am using the native Mac “Mail’ client. Are there much better ones?
> >>
> >> Craig
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> --
> Phil Davis
> (503) 307-4363
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From craig at starfirelighting.com  Thu May 11 14:51:11 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 14:51:11 -0400
Subject: Am I using the best mail client?
In-Reply-To: <CAL3fwtgWxyLSpRFv8NHPpe_5YEQsMmARvy4fMXHb0EM32_grDw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <278EF17B-F6B0-411B-990D-6166A1E74568@starfirelighting.com>
 <1880bda7430.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <cb11ecba-acd8-2768-170d-1fd41d280399@pdslabs.net>
 <CAL3fwtgWxyLSpRFv8NHPpe_5YEQsMmARvy4fMXHb0EM32_grDw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <96AF4AFA-0DE2-46FE-BA9B-F3E4DC0DA8A1@starfirelighting.com>

Thank you all.

I will stick with the Mac client.

The reason I like the forums better is what I see as a far more helpful UI. We all know how it works.

Enough said of this.

Craig

> On May 11, 2023, at 2:02 PM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I use Betterbird, an improved split off from Thunderbird.
> 
> On Thu, 11 May 2023, 20:37 Phil Davis via use-livecode, <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Thunderbird for me as well, for all the reasons Jacque stated.
>> 
>> Phil Davis
>> 
>> 
>> On 5/11/23 10:27 AM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
>>> I use Thunderbird. Like Matthias, I set up a rule to move list mail
>>> into a subfolder where I can sort by date, author,, subject, or any
>>> other attribute. It supportsl threading. There are several layouts you
>>> can use depending on how you like to organize and view mail. You can
>>> color-code emails automatically on arrival, or manually if you want to
>>> mark one for special reasons. You can drag-drop mail from one folder
>>> to another even across accounts.
>>> 
>>> There are a lot of options so you can customize it however you want.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>> On May 11, 2023 11:33:31 AM Craig Newman via use-livecode
>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Since I got real help here, and not on the forum(hmph), I am
>>>> wondering if the eMail client I am using is one reason I do not
>>>> prefer this venue.
>>>> 
>>>> I am using the native Mac “Mail’ client. Are there much better ones?
>>>> 
>>>> Craig
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> --
>> Phil Davis
>> (503) 307-4363
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Thu May 11 15:23:35 2023
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 22:23:35 +0300
Subject: Am I using the best mail client?
In-Reply-To: <96AF4AFA-0DE2-46FE-BA9B-F3E4DC0DA8A1@starfirelighting.com>
References: <278EF17B-F6B0-411B-990D-6166A1E74568@starfirelighting.com>
 <1880bda7430.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <cb11ecba-acd8-2768-170d-1fd41d280399@pdslabs.net>
 <CAL3fwtgWxyLSpRFv8NHPpe_5YEQsMmARvy4fMXHb0EM32_grDw@mail.gmail.com>
 <96AF4AFA-0DE2-46FE-BA9B-F3E4DC0DA8A1@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <CAL3fwtjUzYavdafLg7BymVHGY7QMBhQq5YjkXzzzs_trZCLB_w@mail.gmail.com>

We could transform this thread into a quite a spat as to the advantages of
the Use-List versus the Forums, but as Thee, Thee, Thee and Me are all so
fixed in our views it would only end in verbal bloodshed it best be let
alone: Thee with They words, and Me with My pictures! Let us attempt (at
the very least) some semblance of civilised discourse by leaving the topic
untouched and, with a nod of the head, a wink, and a smile  agreeing to
disagree.

Better be like that (however Thou feelest about the Subjunctive - and the
use of quasi-Germanic capitalisation) and listen, read, and learn from each
other than come to blows over something that will tarnish our shades when,
in time to come, we are mouldering in our sepulchres.

And, as to email clients, as my Granny said (or should have if my memory is
creative), "Taste is all in the mouth."

And, remember, only a Scotsman can produce English like that, or certainly
since the death of Samuel Johnson.

Yours, aye, Richmond Mathewson.

On Thu, 11 May 2023, 21:52 Craig Newman via use-livecode, <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Thank you all.
>
> I will stick with the Mac client.
>
> The reason I like the forums better is what I see as a far more helpful
> UI. We all know how it works.
>
> Enough said of this.
>
> Craig
>
> > On May 11, 2023, at 2:02 PM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > I use Betterbird, an improved split off from Thunderbird.
> >
> > On Thu, 11 May 2023, 20:37 Phil Davis via use-livecode, <
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Thunderbird for me as well, for all the reasons Jacque stated.
> >>
> >> Phil Davis
> >>
> >>
> >> On 5/11/23 10:27 AM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
> >>> I use Thunderbird. Like Matthias, I set up a rule to move list mail
> >>> into a subfolder where I can sort by date, author,, subject, or any
> >>> other attribute. It supportsl threading. There are several layouts you
> >>> can use depending on how you like to organize and view mail. You can
> >>> color-code emails automatically on arrival, or manually if you want to
> >>> mark one for special reasons. You can drag-drop mail from one folder
> >>> to another even across accounts.
> >>>
> >>> There are a lot of options so you can customize it however you want.
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> >>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> >>> On May 11, 2023 11:33:31 AM Craig Newman via use-livecode
> >>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Since I got real help here, and not on the forum(hmph), I am
> >>>> wondering if the eMail client I am using is one reason I do not
> >>>> prefer this venue.
> >>>>
> >>>> I am using the native Mac “Mail’ client. Are there much better ones?
> >>>>
> >>>> Craig
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> use-livecode mailing list
> >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >>>> subscription preferences:
> >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> use-livecode mailing list
> >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >>> subscription preferences:
> >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>
> >> --
> >> Phil Davis
> >> (503) 307-4363
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu May 11 15:33:48 2023
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 14:33:48 -0500
Subject: [semi OT] mySQL question
In-Reply-To: <5e4347eed32d6cda59d5f7aef973c763@souslelogo.com>
References: <5e4347eed32d6cda59d5f7aef973c763@souslelogo.com>
Message-ID: <1A0F058C-04C3-4909-A6F7-530AD1E8FA59@sonsothunder.com>

I would recommend a table for People, a table for Companies, and a table for Employment that acts as a linking table between the first two. Something like (at its simplest):

people
====
id 			INT(11)
first_name	VARCHAR(255)
last_name		VARCHAR(255)


companies
=======
id			INT(11)
name		VARCHAR(255)


employment
========
id			INT(11)
person_id		INT(11)	
company_id	INT(11)
job_descrip	VARCHAR(255)


To get a list of everyone that worked at a particular company, you'd do:

	SELECT * FROM people
	INNER JOIN employment ON (people.id = employment.person_id)
	INNER JOIN companies ON (employment.company_id = companies.id)
	WHERE companies.name="XYZ, Inc."

To get a list of all companies where a person has worked, you'd do:

	SELECT * FROM companies
	INNER JOIN employment ON (companies.id = employment.company_id)
	INNER JOIN people ON (employment.person_id = people.id)
	WHERE people.first_name="John" AND people.last_name="Smith"

Make sure to index the 'id' and '_id' columns, and you can use the employment.job_descrip to hold info on the particular job an individual had at a specific company.

This is all off the top of my head, so it may need a little massaging, but you get the idea.


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Website: https://www.sonsothunder.com


> On May 11, 2023, at 9:55 AM, jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi list,
> 
> This is a question for mySQL experts, which I am not.
> 
> I have a table of individuals.
> I have another table of companies.
> 
> Many individuals have worked in more than 1 company with
> different jobs descriptions.
> 
> I need to build my DB so that, with single requests, I
> can get a list of either :
> - all individuals who worked in a specific company with
> the job description of each one
> - all companies in which a specific individual has worked,
> along with the job description he had in each company.
> 
> The main problem is that the tables might become huge with
> the time (several Gb), so searching the tables might take
> forever if not carefully built.
> 
> I guess I will need to use a third table for the job descriptions
> and a combination of fulltext indexes and foreign keys
> might do the trick, but my limited skills don't allow me
> to find the best solution...
> 
> Any help will be much appreciated.
> Thank you in advance.
> 
> jbv
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode







From jbv at souslelogo.com  Fri May 12 04:57:07 2023
From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com)
Date: Fri, 12 May 2023 04:57:07 -0400
Subject: [semi OT] mySQL question
In-Reply-To: <1A0F058C-04C3-4909-A6F7-530AD1E8FA59@sonsothunder.com>
References: <5e4347eed32d6cda59d5f7aef973c763@souslelogo.com>
 <1A0F058C-04C3-4909-A6F7-530AD1E8FA59@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <ada3709317e8b060e1558f39022dd7b1@souslelogo.com>

Hello Ken,

Thank you so much for your answer.

Your solution confirms what I had more or less in mind.
I will give it a try asap.

Best,
jbv



Le 2023-05-11 15:33, Ken Ray a crit :
> I would recommend a table for People, a table for Companies, and a
> table for Employment that acts as a linking table between the first
> two. Something like (at its simplest):
> 
> people
> ====
> id  INT(11)
> first_name VARCHAR(255)
> last_name VARCHAR(255)
> 
> companies
> =======
> id INT(11)
> name VARCHAR(255)
> 
> employment
> ========
> id INT(11)
> person_id INT(11)
> company_id INT(11)
> job_descrip VARCHAR(255)
> 
> To get a list of everyone that worked at a particular company, you'd
> do:
> 
>  SELECT * FROM people
>  INNER JOIN employment ON (people.id [1] = employment.person_id)
>  INNER JOIN companies ON (employment.company_id = companies.id [2])
>  WHERE companies.name="XYZ, Inc."
> 
> To get a list of all companies where a person has worked, you'd do:
> 
>  SELECT * FROM companies
>  INNER JOIN employment ON (companies.id [2] = employment.company_id)
>  INNER JOIN people ON (employment.person_id = people.id [1])
>  WHERE people.first_name="John" AND people.last_name="Smith"
> 
> Make sure to index the 'id' and '_id' columns, and you can use the
> employment.job_descrip to hold info on the particular job an
> individual had at a specific company.
> 
> This is all off the top of my head, so it may need a little massaging,
> but you get the idea.
> 
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Website: https://www.sonsothunder.com
> 
>> On May 11, 2023, at 9:55 AM, jbv via use-livecode
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi list,
>> 
>> This is a question for mySQL experts, which I am not.
>> 
>> I have a table of individuals.
>> I have another table of companies.
>> 
>> Many individuals have worked in more than 1 company with
>> different jobs descriptions.
>> 
>> I need to build my DB so that, with single requests, I
>> can get a list of either :
>> - all individuals who worked in a specific company with
>> the job description of each one
>> - all companies in which a specific individual has worked,
>> along with the job description he had in each company.
>> 
>> The main problem is that the tables might become huge with
>> the time (several Gb), so searching the tables might take
>> forever if not carefully built.
>> 
>> I guess I will need to use a third table for the job descriptions
>> and a combination of fulltext indexes and foreign keys
>> might do the trick, but my limited skills don't allow me
>> to find the best solution...
>> 
>> Any help will be much appreciated.
>> Thank you in advance.
>> 
>> jbv
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> 
> Links:
> ------
> [1] http://people.id
> [2] http://companies.id


From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com  Fri May 12 11:31:48 2023
From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal)
Date: Fri, 12 May 2023 17:31:48 +0200
Subject: A spinner that keeps spinning
Message-ID: <CF75A365-34B4-450E-BBEB-2EA19617F71A@gmail.com>

Just a note that an improved version of WIS_BrowserAnimation has been released:

Version 1.0.4
- More efficient CSS code handling - only CSS code needed for the chosen animations is now included
- Added the possibility to animate text, with various fonts and styles
- The html/css code is now automatically put into a custom prop of the browser, called cHTML. So if you copy the browser widget, the code is conveniently exposed in the Property Inspector, Custom props tab.

Known issues: 
- Going (back) to a card with animated browser widgets on it, while using visual effects, seems to negatively impact the loading of the widget content, at least in the web deployment (i.e. it capriciously fails to load).

Web deployed example:
https://wheninspace.com/browseranimation/
(If the new version does not appear, make sure to clear browser cache or open in a private browser window.)

Source stack:
https://github.com/wheninspace/WIS_BrowserAnimation

/Andreas

From bogdanoff at me.com  Fri May 12 12:06:07 2023
From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff)
Date: Fri, 12 May 2023 12:06:07 -0400
Subject: A spinner that keeps spinning
In-Reply-To: <CF75A365-34B4-450E-BBEB-2EA19617F71A@gmail.com>
References: <CF75A365-34B4-450E-BBEB-2EA19617F71A@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BE66C846-FBA3-4B87-8AB5-5AE086ADD823@me.com>

Andreas, thanks again!

Am I supposed to be able to copy the CSS or the widget to the clipboard and paste directly into desktop LC? I tried using Safari and Chrome, but nothing ended up in the clipboard.

Peter Bogdanoff

> On May 12, 2023, at 11:31 AM, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Just a note that an improved version of WIS_BrowserAnimation has been released:
> 
> Version 1.0.4
> - More efficient CSS code handling - only CSS code needed for the chosen animations is now included
> - Added the possibility to animate text, with various fonts and styles
> - The html/css code is now automatically put into a custom prop of the browser, called cHTML. So if you copy the browser widget, the code is conveniently exposed in the Property Inspector, Custom props tab.
> 
> Known issues: 
> - Going (back) to a card with animated browser widgets on it, while using visual effects, seems to negatively impact the loading of the widget content, at least in the web deployment (i.e. it capriciously fails to load).
> 
> Web deployed example:
> https://wheninspace.com/browseranimation/
> (If the new version does not appear, make sure to clear browser cache or open in a private browser window.)
> 
> Source stack:
> https://github.com/wheninspace/WIS_BrowserAnimation
> 
> /Andreas
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From roland.huettmann at gmail.com  Fri May 12 12:24:54 2023
From: roland.huettmann at gmail.com (R.H.)
Date: Fri, 12 May 2023 18:24:54 +0200
Subject: mySQL question party
Message-ID: <CAG1Q0g-=uw5tR+=b_W7mqUvE+taUg92S-G1KkLhHOs-SmN2m9Q@mail.gmail.com>

Look up Google for the party entity relationships diagram or schema.

A "party" is either a "person" or a "organisation" (company, org) The party
is an entity ( table) that has an id. The org or person tables have a
foreign key to the party id. It is a mutual exclusive relationship. A party
must never be both.

Through the party id you have access to org and person.

The party interacts through a role and relationship table. So party "Smith"
with the role "employee" is employed by employer party "My company Ltd."
with the role "employer".

If you need the "role" entity is something you must decide. But the
relationship table is essential. Any relationship can be created with this
many-to-many table.

These are starting steps... )

Roland

From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com  Fri May 12 13:13:02 2023
From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal)
Date: Fri, 12 May 2023 19:13:02 +0200
Subject: A spinner that keeps spinning
Message-ID: <6B8ED556-2A1F-4340-AFA6-DBAB586ED21C@gmail.com>

Peter,

Well no, the web deployment is just for show, really. It’s the LC stack that is the actual tool, that you should download from GitHub to use. From the stack you can copy the widget or the code as you prefer.

I don’t think it’s currently possible to get the content of a field in web deployment into the general clipboard of your browser/computer. But if anyone knows a method, please let me know and I’ll implement it (javascript?). I hope that when LC 10 is released as stable, it will be a default function.

Also, in the web deployment you can’t import an svg/png/jpg or use the generic color swatch, which you can when running the stack in LC. So do get the stack in order to let loose your inner animation designer… :)

/Andreas

From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri May 12 17:56:53 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 12 May 2023 21:56:53 +0000
Subject: Am I using the best mail client?
In-Reply-To: <278EF17B-F6B0-411B-990D-6166A1E74568@starfirelighting.com>
References: <278EF17B-F6B0-411B-990D-6166A1E74568@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <16098D8C-7112-456B-B528-1335FFA18020@iotecdigital.com>

I thread my mail in Apple Mail, and I also have a rule which moves incoming mail from the list into its own folder. The trouble with that is that some mail clients quote at the top of the body, and others quote below. That makes reading a long string of emails and quoted replies nearly impossible to figure out. 

There was some talk years ago about the practice of only quoting the relevant body text, and not every single reply with quote, and reply with quote of reply with quote, and every reply with quote of every reply with quote of every reply... you get the picture. After reading through 20 replies of the same quotes over and over and over all these years, well it's a miracle I have not been "committed" yet. But I do not think very many really got the memo. Still, that simple change in the way people reply to emails would relieve I think most of the pain people feel in using a list. 

Bob S


> On May 11, 2023, at 09:30, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Since I got real help here, and not on the forum(hmph), I am wondering if the eMail client I am using is one reason I do not prefer this venue.
> 
> I am using the native Mac “Mail’ client. Are there much better ones?
> 
> Craig
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri May 12 18:00:58 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 12 May 2023 22:00:58 +0000
Subject: [semi OT] mySQL question
In-Reply-To: <ada3709317e8b060e1558f39022dd7b1@souslelogo.com>
References: <5e4347eed32d6cda59d5f7aef973c763@souslelogo.com>
 <1A0F058C-04C3-4909-A6F7-530AD1E8FA59@sonsothunder.com>
 <ada3709317e8b060e1558f39022dd7b1@souslelogo.com>
Message-ID: <4E6DF4F7-CD9F-4D0A-813A-F4A4EBAA4149@iotecdigital.com>

Just as an aside, I do not bother with joins, if I can help it. If I need data from multiple tables I query each table for just the data I need, and save it in discreet arrays, 1 per table. Of course, my needs are pretty simple. I typically have one parent table (the example suggested calls them Strong Entities) and and I only query data from the "child" tables (Weak Entities) as needed. 

My use case for example is: 

Customer
	[CustomerFiles]
	Sites
		Devices
			Accessories
		{DeviceFiles]
		Service
			[ServiceDevices]
		Subnets
		[SiteContacts]
	[SiteFiles]
	Contacts
	Files

etc. (entities in brackets like SiteContacts are just contacts with the sites they are linked to in a itemized string. Contacts are not dependent on sites but ARE dependent on Customers.)

I only query for one customer at a time, then all the sites for that customer, then all the devices for the selected site, then all the accessories for the selected device. As the user selects each Strong Entity, I query for the Weak Entities as necessary. 

I like doing it this way because having discrete arrays for each entity type makes coding for me much easier, and viewing the data for each table easier. The code necessary for querying for the Weak Entities I need is done in LC Script. It's much easier to grok than a complex SQL statement. 

I understand that there are definitely use cases where joins should be employed, such as finding all the sites who no longer have a customer (something I have since coded to prevent, but not before end users managed to orphan some sites.) 

I think too often people who really understand and are adept at SQL tend to program in SQL instead of the language of the front end. To me this makes the solution much less manageable. Also, I am not that adept at SQL (and hope I never need to be.) :-)

Bob S




From dochawk at gmail.com  Fri May 12 19:53:49 2023
From: dochawk at gmail.com (doc hawk)
Date: Fri, 12 May 2023 16:53:49 -0700
Subject: Am I using the best mail client?
In-Reply-To: <16098D8C-7112-456B-B528-1335FFA18020@iotecdigital.com>
References: <278EF17B-F6B0-411B-990D-6166A1E74568@starfirelighting.com>
 <16098D8C-7112-456B-B528-1335FFA18020@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <5E8678AA-4B31-4374-804C-D3E410FAF41F@gmail.com>


bob belabored,

>There was some talk years ago about the practice of only quoting the relevant body text, and not 
>every single reply with quote, and reply with quote of reply with quote, and every reply with 
>quote of every reply with quote of every reply…

That predates this list, and for that matter the creation of NACBA, by decades.

For that matter, it predates the word “internet”, and the constant network connection.

Ancient etiquette is that it is simply rude (at best) to include entire messages, rather than trimming
to the parts to which you are replying.

And “top-posting”, placing your response before the message, was the mark of a newbie,
and treated harshly.

Which worked, until the “Eternal September” of 1993, when rather than once a year with 
new students, AOL started dumping a continual supply of newbies, faster than they could be assimilated.

[in fairness, the infrastructure in the 80s couldn’t handle the load of all that extra text—the backbone
got upgraded *to* 56k (bits/second) in the 80s!]



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri May 12 21:54:07 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 12 May 2023 20:54:07 -0500
Subject: Am I using the best mail client?
In-Reply-To: <5E8678AA-4B31-4374-804C-D3E410FAF41F@gmail.com>
References: <278EF17B-F6B0-411B-990D-6166A1E74568@starfirelighting.com>
 <16098D8C-7112-456B-B528-1335FFA18020@iotecdigital.com>
 <5E8678AA-4B31-4374-804C-D3E410FAF41F@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <18812d0b218.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

Because of how mobile email clients work, I top post when responding on my 
phone or tablet, and bottom post when I'm at the computer. But I do try to 
trim the original message regardless.

I guess you can tell where I am right now.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 12, 2023 6:56:07 PM doc hawk via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> Ancient etiquette is that it is simply rude (at best) to include entire 
> messages, rather than trimming
> to the parts to which you are replying.
>
> And top-posting, placing your response before the message, was the mark 
> of a newbie,
> and treated harshly.





From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com  Sat May 13 16:13:57 2023
From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal)
Date: Sat, 13 May 2023 22:13:57 +0200
Subject: A spinner that keeps spinning
Message-ID: <B96279F1-5123-4C36-9B2B-845A636A26EB@gmail.com>

Actually, my phrasing it that the web deployment of the browser animation tool is ”just for show” was being a bit unfair to it (I’ll blame not being a native English speaker :). 
It works very well as a web application, except for the - until now - inability to actually let you copy and use the code it produces.

Anyway, in v1.0.5 I’ve:
- Added the possibility to copy the code when running the web application (note that a urlDecode() must be done on the pasted text in LiveCode before using it)
- Added the possibility to enter an RGB value into the color field (works in the web application too)
- Made the design responsive on web too

I’m working on getting javascript to convey a clipboard content that doesn’t need urlDecoding, but at least you can extract your code from browser to LC now. 

I still recommend downloading and using the stack, though! :)

Web app: https://wheninspace.com/browseranimation/
Stack: https://github.com/wheninspace/WIS_BrowserAnimation

/Andreas

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue May 16 16:18:50 2023
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 16 May 2023 13:18:50 -0700
Subject: Looking for recent, complete Google OAuth2 example
Message-ID: <77b24fb3-ce3f-d065-7dbf-a960ea2d923b@fourthworld.com>

Anyone know of a good and *recent* example of using Monte's great OAuth2 
lib with Google's API?

I'm updating some stuff and have found that after the Big G changed 
their API in March my stuff needs revision. But the vastness of their 
docs have me poking around when I'm sure it's not a hard thing once I 
find the right example (sorta like the LC Dict: great when you already 
know what you're looking for <g>).

Side question:

tsNet is a well-crafted wrapper around the industry-standard cURL. 
Fabo.  But unless I've missed something, for all the great ways Charles 
has meticulously made scripting interfaces for cURL functionality, 
there's one thing I can't find documentation for: cURL's own syntax.

Does tsNet support cURL syntax directly, or must we convert the vast 
range of API documentation out there into LC-specific forms to use them?

I'd be done with going back and forth between LC and Postman if I could 
make a Postman-like tool right in LC.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems



From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Wed May 17 05:33:28 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 10:33:28 +0100
Subject: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor
Message-ID: <7F72B8F6-7CE3-4204-BDB2-A45E232FC78C@gmail.com>

I just watched the latest LC video showing how AI will be integrated into Xavvi/LC. https://livecode.com/xavvi/?updates/#tabbed-section <https://livecode.com/xavvi/?updates/#tabbed-section> (note: the URL is not an error, that is where the new video is parked). 

I hadn’t seen how this was going to be done before but  it’s a great UI with lot of useful options. This will completely transform how we write (and document) our code in the future. It looks like LC has give a lot of thought to this and the UI is extremely well done. If you haven’t backed the campaign so far I’d give this short 4 minute video a watch and be prepared to be blown away. 

Thanks LC. 
 

From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Wed May 17 05:50:48 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 10:50:48 +0100
Subject: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor
In-Reply-To: <7F72B8F6-7CE3-4204-BDB2-A45E232FC78C@gmail.com>
References: <7F72B8F6-7CE3-4204-BDB2-A45E232FC78C@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <210D5A3B-38C6-4FDE-B5A4-68851E64BF46@gmail.com>

Having just watched the latest campaign video (showing the integration of AI into Xavvi/LC — btw, I highly recommend giving this a watch) I have a question for LC. It’s likely that now (and perhaps for the foreseeable future) the AI will make coding and documentation errors in its recommendations. Has any thought been given as to how we capture these errors from the community (and fix them) so they can be fed back into the AI as training to improve the product? And, if such a mechanism will exist, might it also be applied to the current documentation (I’m thinking mostly of the dictionary) to improve that as well?

Thanks
Mark


> On 17 May 2023, at 10:33 am, Mark Smith <marksmithhfx at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I just watched the latest LC video showing how AI will be integrated into Xavvi/LC. https://livecode.com/xavvi/?updates/#tabbed-section <https://livecode.com/xavvi/?updates/#tabbed-section> (note: the URL is not an error, that is where the new video is parked). 
> 
> I hadn’t seen how this was going to be done before but  it’s a great UI with lot of useful options. This will completely transform how we write (and document) our code in the future. It looks like LC has give a lot of thought to this and the UI is extremely well done. If you haven’t backed the campaign so far I’d give this short 4 minute video a watch and be prepared to be blown away. 
> 
> Thanks LC. 
>  


From steven.crighton at livecode.com  Wed May 17 07:59:23 2023
From: steven.crighton at livecode.com (Steven Crighton)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 12:59:23 +0100
Subject: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor
Message-ID: <29699C9F-0787-4BB0-B092-EC3191733DE8@livecode.com>

Hi Mark

I’m really pleased to hear you enjoyed the video. What I would say is our testing so far has been extremely impressive, it was the inspiration to make that video. But you’re right, AI won’t get the script right every time and we have to handle that carefully. If the script that comes back won’t compile then Xavvi will intervene to make sure you are not actually accepting code that won’t run. However there may be instances where it supplies code that does compile but is still not what you hoped for, in the first instance we are providing an opt in to training feature where you can provide a thumbs up or thumbs down to the code you have been supplied as well as give a description on what was good or bad about it. Additionally there will always be options to accept or decline the result and try again with a slightly tweaked prompt. I hope this helps. 


From 1anmldr1 at gmail.com  Wed May 17 10:11:24 2023
From: 1anmldr1 at gmail.com (Linda Miller)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 08:11:24 -0600
Subject: XAVVI and app/code copyright
Message-ID: <406DB356-2CAF-4652-8B1C-1518F5883DD9@gmail.com>

Will code and apps be copyright protected for the developer or LiveCode Ltd? Are we 100% sure of this answer? Is there a statement declaring this?

Linda

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed May 17 12:21:58 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 11:21:58 -0500
Subject: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor
In-Reply-To: <7F72B8F6-7CE3-4204-BDB2-A45E232FC78C@gmail.com>
References: <7F72B8F6-7CE3-4204-BDB2-A45E232FC78C@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1882a84ac70.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

I want the widgets and layout functions. I had to make a form yesterday 
with lots of fields and while it isn't hard, it took 20 minutes to name 
everything and align the labels and entry fields. If Xavvi can do that in a 
few seconds it would save me time and my clients money. There's a lot of 
mindless tinkering we do that isn't script-related.

I'm hoping Xavvi will also do dynamic resizing. Even with the Magic Palette 
it's difficult.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 17, 2023 4:35:52 AM Mark Smith via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I just watched the latest LC video showing how AI will be integrated into 
> Xavvi/LC. https://livecode.com/xavvi/?updates/#tabbed-section 
> <https://livecode.com/xavvi/?updates/#tabbed-section> (note: the URL is not 
> an error, that is where the new video is parked).
>
> I hadnt seen how this was going to be done before but  its a great UI 
> with lot of useful options. This will completely transform how we write 
> (and document) our code in the future. It looks like LC has give a lot of 
> thought to this and the UI is extremely well done. If you havent backed 
> the campaign so far Id give this short 4 minute video a watch and be 
> prepared to be blown away.
>
> Thanks LC.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From paul at researchware.com  Wed May 17 12:50:06 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 12:50:06 -0400
Subject: XAVVI and app/code copyright
In-Reply-To: <406DB356-2CAF-4652-8B1C-1518F5883DD9@gmail.com>
References: <406DB356-2CAF-4652-8B1C-1518F5883DD9@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3afe8dbe-5161-1bb2-4fa5-6bb913650694@researchware.com>

Xavvi generates livecode script as directed by you. Just as livecode 
script you create now is copywritable, whether you write each lie by 
hand or copy some code from a freely available library, the finished 
application you make can be copyrighted by you. Same with Xavvi.

On 5/17/2023 10:11 AM, Linda Miller via use-livecode wrote:
> Will code and apps be copyright protected for the developer or LiveCode Ltd? Are we 100% sure of this answer? Is there a statement declaring this?
>
> Linda
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From dochawk at gmail.com  Wed May 17 13:27:09 2023
From: dochawk at gmail.com (doc hawk)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 10:27:09 -0700
Subject: XAVVI and app/code copyright
In-Reply-To: <3afe8dbe-5161-1bb2-4fa5-6bb913650694@researchware.com>
References: <406DB356-2CAF-4652-8B1C-1518F5883DD9@gmail.com>
 <3afe8dbe-5161-1bb2-4fa5-6bb913650694@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <71143118-8D18-4599-904F-7310372F4486@gmail.com>



paul provided,


>Just as livecode script you create now is copywritable, whether you write each line 
>by hand or copy some code from a freely available library, the finished application you
> make can be copyrighted by you. Same with Xavvi.

This is far less than clear user current US law . . .

It’s not my area of law, but I’ve been following case reports, and both the current status 
and what is likely to change are clear as mud.




From jiml at netrin.com  Wed May 17 14:45:04 2023
From: jiml at netrin.com (Jim Lambert)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 11:45:04 -0700
Subject: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1684339201.410197.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.1.1684339201.410197.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <AC8A3D07-0AB3-41F6-8F9D-126F74394D73@netrin.com>

Stephen wrote:
> we are providing an opt in to training feature where you can provide a thumbs up or thumbs down to the code you have been supplied as well as give a description on what was good or bad about it. 

And perhaps offer a way to accept code that we re-write so that it does work as we intended. This presumably improved code might then be used to 'educate' the LLM.

Jim Lambert


From dan at clearvisiontech.com  Wed May 17 15:37:39 2023
From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 19:37:39 +0000
Subject: Android Push Messaging issue
In-Reply-To: <AC8A3D07-0AB3-41F6-8F9D-126F74394D73@netrin.com>
References: <mailman.1.1684339201.410197.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <AC8A3D07-0AB3-41F6-8F9D-126F74394D73@netrin.com>
Message-ID: <BYAPR12MB27098E94FFB99C89DE79375EB97E9@BYAPR12MB2709.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>

I am stumped!    I have an app that where push messaging is working fine using Legacy Cloud Messaging (and LC 9.6.2).  I have setup the new Firebase Cloud Messaging and downloaded the new “google-services.json” file and included it in my updated standalone (LC 10.0.0).  The app when launched on a device is registering a valid token.   When I use the Firebase Cloud Messaging test tool (and include the token from my app) it says a message was sent successfully but was not received on the device.   Any thoughts?

FYI… Sending from our server gives the same result:  sent successfully, but no push to the physical device.

If it matters, both Firebase Cloud Messaging API and the Legacy Cloud Messaging services are enabled (because the non-Firebase app is still being used in production).

-Dan

From merakosp at gmail.com  Wed May 17 16:19:48 2023
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis m)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 23:19:48 +0300
Subject: Android Push Messaging issue
In-Reply-To: <BYAPR12MB27098E94FFB99C89DE79375EB97E9@BYAPR12MB2709.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
References: <mailman.1.1684339201.410197.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <AC8A3D07-0AB3-41F6-8F9D-126F74394D73@netrin.com>
 <BYAPR12MB27098E94FFB99C89DE79375EB97E9@BYAPR12MB2709.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq-SCDBO6MudWhFwkhh55Dw7nUUfuqDuRzkqge8M5ivmcQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Dan,

Have you seen this lesson?

https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4069/l/1473964-how-do-i-use-push-notifications-with-android-in-livecode-9-6-5

What is your code that handles the notification?

Kind regards,
Panos

On Wed, 17 May 2023, 22:38 Dan Friedman via use-livecode, <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I am stumped!    I have an app that where push messaging is working fine
> using Legacy Cloud Messaging (and LC 9.6.2).  I have setup the new Firebase
> Cloud Messaging and downloaded the new “google-services.json” file and
> included it in my updated standalone (LC 10.0.0).  The app when launched on
> a device is registering a valid token.   When I use the Firebase Cloud
> Messaging test tool (and include the token from my app) it says a message
> was sent successfully but was not received on the device.   Any thoughts?
>
> FYI… Sending from our server gives the same result:  sent successfully,
> but no push to the physical device.
>
> If it matters, both Firebase Cloud Messaging API and the Legacy Cloud
> Messaging services are enabled (because the non-Firebase app is still being
> used in production).
>
> -Dan
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Wed May 17 16:33:05 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 21:33:05 +0100
Subject: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor
In-Reply-To: <1882a84ac70.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <7F72B8F6-7CE3-4204-BDB2-A45E232FC78C@gmail.com>
 <1882a84ac70.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <2ECD89C4-764F-43DC-B8E9-9448D3B070E8@gmail.com>

Good point. I want that too. Ditto with dynamic resizing. 

> On 17 May 2023, at 5:21 pm, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I want the widgets and layout functions. I had to make a form yesterday with lots of fields and while it isn't hard, it took 20 minutes to name everything and align the labels and entry fields. If Xavvi can do that in a few seconds it would save me time and my clients money. There's a lot of mindless tinkering we do that isn't script-related.


From dan at clearvisiontech.com  Wed May 17 16:59:58 2023
From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 20:59:58 +0000
Subject: Android Push Messaging issue
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq-SCDBO6MudWhFwkhh55Dw7nUUfuqDuRzkqge8M5ivmcQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1.1684339201.410197.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <AC8A3D07-0AB3-41F6-8F9D-126F74394D73@netrin.com>
 <BYAPR12MB27098E94FFB99C89DE79375EB97E9@BYAPR12MB2709.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
 <CA+JfEq-SCDBO6MudWhFwkhh55Dw7nUUfuqDuRzkqge8M5ivmcQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BYAPR12MB27097F7C2F9748619171F097B97E9@BYAPR12MB2709.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>

Panos,

Thank you for the reply.  Yes, I have seen that lesson – many times.  I have everything in place, and I have downloaded and installed the json file.  It’s not that the app isn’t getting the push message, it’s that the device isn’t getting the message – at all!  If the app is or is not launched, the device isn’t getting the message.  Even though Google says it’s been successfully sent.

FYI… I have another app that is using FB and it’s working fine.

Thank you!
-Dan


From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> on behalf of panagiotis m via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Date: Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 1:21 PM
To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Cc: panagiotis m <merakosp at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Android Push Messaging issue
Hello Dan,

Have you seen this lesson?

https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4069/l/1473964-how-do-i-use-push-notifications-with-android-in-livecode-9-6-5

What is your code that handles the notification?

Kind regards,
Panos

On Wed, 17 May 2023, 22:38 Dan Friedman via use-livecode, <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I am stumped!    I have an app that where push messaging is working fine
> using Legacy Cloud Messaging (and LC 9.6.2).  I have setup the new Firebase
> Cloud Messaging and downloaded the new “google-services.json” file and
> included it in my updated standalone (LC 10.0.0).  The app when launched on
> a device is registering a valid token.   When I use the Firebase Cloud
> Messaging test tool (and include the token from my app) it says a message
> was sent successfully but was not received on the device.   Any thoughts?
>
> FYI… Sending from our server gives the same result:  sent successfully,
> but no push to the physical device.
>
> If it matters, both Firebase Cloud Messaging API and the Legacy Cloud
> Messaging services are enabled (because the non-Firebase app is still being
> used in production).
>
> -Dan
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au  Wed May 17 18:38:10 2023
From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 22:38:10 +0000
Subject: Can Xavvi generate sensible text output as well as code?
Message-ID: <57AAA79F-CF93-4E4F-A185-0B4865B045A4@unimelb.edu.au>

Let’s say I have a whole lot of input statements/info, some of which is generic but some of which varies according by user. Any thoughts on whether it might be possible to leverage Xavvi to process and combine that info into useful prose summaries for each user in a way that I can’t already do in Livecode - ie generative AI text rather than merging into template text)?

Terry

Sent from my iPad

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed May 17 20:26:15 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 19:26:15 -0500
Subject: Can Xavvi generate sensible text output as well as code?
In-Reply-To: <57AAA79F-CF93-4E4F-A185-0B4865B045A4@unimelb.edu.au>
References: <57AAA79F-CF93-4E4F-A185-0B4865B045A4@unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <ee3c341e-b7ee-78ef-8394-eae6d2939375@hyperactivesw.com>

On 5/17/23 5:38 PM, Terry Judd via use-livecode wrote:
> Let’s say I have a whole lot of input statements/info, some of which is generic but some of which varies according by user. Any thoughts on whether it might be possible to leverage Xavvi to process and combine that info into useful prose summaries for each user in a way that I can’t already do in Livecode - ie generative AI text rather than merging into template text)?

Well, I'd expect so since Bard can do it, if I understand what you mean. Here's my test. (Bard 
thinks it's code.)

My prompt: Make a list of 10 people with first and last names. Combine each one into this 
sentence: "Hello firstname, I'm exploring the family tree of your lastname relatives." 
Substitute "firstname" with each person's first name and substitute "lastname" with their last 
name. Return a list, one person per line.

Bard says:

Here is a list of 10 people with first and last names, along with the sentence "Hello 
firstname, I'm exploring the family tree of your lastname relatives." with each person's first 
and last name substituted in:
Code snippet

Name | Sentence
------- | --------
John Smith | Hello John, I'm exploring the family tree of your Smith relatives.
Mary Jones | Hello Mary, I'm exploring the family tree of your Jones relatives.
Michael Brown | Hello Michael, I'm exploring the family tree of your Brown relatives.
David Williams | Hello David, I'm exploring the family tree of your Williams relatives.
Susan White | Hello Susan, I'm exploring the family tree of your White relatives.
James Green | Hello James, I'm exploring the family tree of your Green relatives.
Sarah Black | Hello Sarah, I'm exploring the family tree of your Black relatives.
Peter Brown | Hello Peter, I'm exploring the family tree of your Brown relatives.
Jessica Smith | Hello Jessica, I'm exploring the family tree of your Smith relatives.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From jacques.clavel at gmail.com  Thu May 18 05:46:35 2023
From: jacques.clavel at gmail.com (Jacques Clavel)
Date: Thu, 18 May 2023 11:46:35 +0200
Subject: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor
In-Reply-To: <29699C9F-0787-4BB0-B092-EC3191733DE8@livecode.com>
References: <29699C9F-0787-4BB0-B092-EC3191733DE8@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <CALD5CnjV9ui5TjH=oZrVhTqSnahT+tWCPfxKUC_WVM9orLOQjw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all and Steven,

I had pledged a few days ago to "Xavi Business 1 year" (499$) and now try
to extend it to "Xavi Business 2 Years" (999$).
But there is no option where I pay 500$ only to upgrade my pledge.
Please, how to do that ?
Jacques CLAVEL

Le mer. 17 mai 2023 à 14:00, Steven Crighton via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> a écrit :

> Hi Mark
>
> I’m really pleased to hear you enjoyed the video. What I would say is our
> testing so far has been extremely impressive, it was the inspiration to
> make that video. But you’re right, AI won’t get the script right every time
> and we have to handle that carefully. If the script that comes back won’t
> compile then Xavvi will intervene to make sure you are not actually
> accepting code that won’t run. However there may be instances where it
> supplies code that does compile but is still not what you hoped for, in the
> first instance we are providing an opt in to training feature where you can
> provide a thumbs up or thumbs down to the code you have been supplied as
> well as give a description on what was good or bad about it. Additionally
> there will always be options to accept or decline the result and try again
> with a slightly tweaked prompt. I hope this helps.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
Jacques Clavel

From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Thu May 18 06:38:04 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe)
Date: Thu, 18 May 2023 12:38:04 +0200
Subject: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor
In-Reply-To: <CALD5CnjV9ui5TjH=oZrVhTqSnahT+tWCPfxKUC_WVM9orLOQjw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALD5CnjV9ui5TjH=oZrVhTqSnahT+tWCPfxKUC_WVM9orLOQjw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1F293046-FDFF-4EA8-BAAA-4A8EACC6279B@m-r-d.de>

I did the same a few days ago. ;)
Heather told me to purchase a2nd 2 year (now 10  months) and she would take care that it would be combined  to 2 years. 



Von meinem iPhone gesendet

> Am 18.05.2023 um 11:48 schrieb Jacques Clavel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi all and Steven,
> 
> I had pledged a few days ago to "Xavi Business 1 year" (499$) and now try
> to extend it to "Xavi Business 2 Years" (999$).
> But there is no option where I pay 500$ only to upgrade my pledge.
> Please, how to do that ?
> Jacques CLAVEL
> 
>> Le mer. 17 mai 2023 à 14:00, Steven Crighton via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> a écrit :
>> 
>> Hi Mark
>> 
>> I’m really pleased to hear you enjoyed the video. What I would say is our
>> testing so far has been extremely impressive, it was the inspiration to
>> make that video. But you’re right, AI won’t get the script right every time
>> and we have to handle that carefully. If the script that comes back won’t
>> compile then Xavvi will intervene to make sure you are not actually
>> accepting code that won’t run. However there may be instances where it
>> supplies code that does compile but is still not what you hoped for, in the
>> first instance we are providing an opt in to training feature where you can
>> provide a thumbs up or thumbs down to the code you have been supplied as
>> well as give a description on what was good or bad about it. Additionally
>> there will always be options to accept or decline the result and try again
>> with a slightly tweaked prompt. I hope this helps.
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Jacques Clavel
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From craig at starfirelighting.com  Thu May 18 09:25:55 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Thu, 18 May 2023 09:25:55 -0400
Subject: Can Xavvi generate sensible text output as well as code?
In-Reply-To: <ee3c341e-b7ee-78ef-8394-eae6d2939375@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <57AAA79F-CF93-4E4F-A185-0B4865B045A4@unimelb.edu.au>
 <ee3c341e-b7ee-78ef-8394-eae6d2939375@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <781EF3DD-156E-4E1B-B112-E8CEC2E4F452@starfirelighting.com>

In Jacque’s “test” AI first had to create a list of ten “people”, garnered, I assume, from research into our planet’s knowledge base. It knew what a “name” should be. That is cool.

That list could have been a list of actual humans, derived from, say, the staff of a particular bank. 

If the list alone was in hand, it would take just a handful of LC code to create the string associated with each name.

How to integrate the AI part with the LC part? Again, one could acquire just the list, and then let LC generate the output string. But at least all would end up in a handler, fully in LC, where I assume additional “real” work would then be done.

What I mean is, how can one best integrate the “outside” AI work with the “inside” LC work? That is what I have to get my head around.

 Lurking in the background,I do not want AI to put LC out to pasture. I did that once with HC, and still have not gotten over it.

Craig

> On May 17, 2023, at 8:26 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> On 5/17/23 5:38 PM, Terry Judd via use-livecode wrote:
>> Let’s say I have a whole lot of input statements/info, some of which is generic but some of which varies according by user. Any thoughts on whether it might be possible to leverage Xavvi to process and combine that info into useful prose summaries for each user in a way that I can’t already do in Livecode - ie generative AI text rather than merging into template text)?
> 
> Well, I'd expect so since Bard can do it, if I understand what you mean. Here's my test. (Bard thinks it's code.)
> 
> My prompt: Make a list of 10 people with first and last names. Combine each one into this sentence: "Hello firstname, I'm exploring the family tree of your lastname relatives." Substitute "firstname" with each person's first name and substitute "lastname" with their last name. Return a list, one person per line.
> 
> Bard says:
> 
> Here is a list of 10 people with first and last names, along with the sentence "Hello firstname, I'm exploring the family tree of your lastname relatives." with each person's first and last name substituted in:
> Code snippet
> 
> Name | Sentence
> ------- | --------
> John Smith | Hello John, I'm exploring the family tree of your Smith relatives.
> Mary Jones | Hello Mary, I'm exploring the family tree of your Jones relatives.
> Michael Brown | Hello Michael, I'm exploring the family tree of your Brown relatives.
> David Williams | Hello David, I'm exploring the family tree of your Williams relatives.
> Susan White | Hello Susan, I'm exploring the family tree of your White relatives.
> James Green | Hello James, I'm exploring the family tree of your Green relatives.
> Sarah Black | Hello Sarah, I'm exploring the family tree of your Black relatives.
> Peter Brown | Hello Peter, I'm exploring the family tree of your Brown relatives.
> Jessica Smith | Hello Jessica, I'm exploring the family tree of your Smith relatives.
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Thu May 18 10:09:20 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Thu, 18 May 2023 15:09:20 +0100
Subject: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor
In-Reply-To: <29699C9F-0787-4BB0-B092-EC3191733DE8@livecode.com>
References: <29699C9F-0787-4BB0-B092-EC3191733DE8@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <5DD34B7D-C7A9-4512-A59B-989562B873C8@gmail.com>

Thanks Steven,

That sounds like a sensible approach. 

Mark

> On 17 May 2023, at 12:59 pm, Steven Crighton via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Mark
> 
> I’m really pleased to hear you enjoyed the video. What I would say is our testing so far has been extremely impressive, it was the inspiration to make that video. But you’re right, AI won’t get the script right every time and we have to handle that carefully. If the script that comes back won’t compile then Xavvi will intervene to make sure you are not actually accepting code that won’t run. However there may be instances where it supplies code that does compile but is still not what you hoped for, in the first instance we are providing an opt in to training feature where you can provide a thumbs up or thumbs down to the code you have been supplied as well as give a description on what was good or bad about it. Additionally there will always be options to accept or decline the result and try again with a slightly tweaked prompt. I hope this helps. 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu May 18 13:22:37 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 18 May 2023 12:22:37 -0500
Subject: Can Xavvi generate sensible text output as well as code?
In-Reply-To: <781EF3DD-156E-4E1B-B112-E8CEC2E4F452@starfirelighting.com>
References: <57AAA79F-CF93-4E4F-A185-0B4865B045A4@unimelb.edu.au>
 <ee3c341e-b7ee-78ef-8394-eae6d2939375@hyperactivesw.com>
 <781EF3DD-156E-4E1B-B112-E8CEC2E4F452@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <1882fe28f48.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

If you watch some of the videos posted on the challenge page it becomes 
clearer. LC AI will be integrated into the script editor and will create 
handlers as expected. You can accept, reject, or revise its output. LC AI 
knows all about what's available and how to use it. Bard, on other hand, 
doesn't know LC and can only offer generic output though it does know 20 
other coding languages.

Xavvi is built on top of LC and the team has reassured us many times that 
the LC we know is not going away. There will be regular updates and you are 
free to ignore the AI if you want. But given what I've seen so far, I'm 
betting most of us will use at least some of its features to save time or 
to expedite certain tasks.

We made the challenge! I'm happy.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 18, 2023 8:28:42 AM Craig Newman via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> How to integrate the AI part with the LC part? Again, one could acquire 
> just the list, and then let LC generate the output string. But at least all 
> would end up in a handler, fully in LC, where I assume additional real 
> work would then be done.
>
> What I mean is, how can one best integrate the outside AI work with the 
> inside LC work? That is what I have to get my head around.
>
> Lurking in the background,I do not want AI to put LC out to pasture. I did 
> that once with HC, and still have not gotten over it.





From harrison at all-auctions.com  Thu May 18 14:27:36 2023
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com)
Date: Thu, 18 May 2023 14:27:36 -0400
Subject: Can Xavvi generate sensible text output as well as code?
In-Reply-To: <781EF3DD-156E-4E1B-B112-E8CEC2E4F452@starfirelighting.com>
References: <57AAA79F-CF93-4E4F-A185-0B4865B045A4@unimelb.edu.au>
 <ee3c341e-b7ee-78ef-8394-eae6d2939375@hyperactivesw.com>
 <781EF3DD-156E-4E1B-B112-E8CEC2E4F452@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <D3ED0AC2-3D57-4F8A-B8DE-D0325B04D303@all-auctions.com>

I used ChatGPT to generate some test data for me.

It took several tries before it was able to give me
a dozen lines of useable data.  

I told it to separate each item with a comma and 
each line with a carriage return.  

Then I just copied and pasted the data into a 
spreadsheet program, created a .csv file from it, 
and imported into my postgresql database that 
my LiveCode server uses.

In your case, you could just copy and paste
the data into an LC text field or table.

Enjoy your day!

Rick

> On May 18, 2023, at 9:25 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> In Jacque’s “test” AI first had to create a list of ten “people”, garnered, I assume, from research into our planet’s knowledge base. It knew what a “name” should be. That is cool.
> 
> That list could have been a list of actual humans, derived from, say, the staff of a particular bank. 
> 
> If the list alone was in hand, it would take just a handful of LC code to create the string associated with each name.
> 
> How to integrate the AI part with the LC part? Again, one could acquire just the list, and then let LC generate the output string. But at least all would end up in a handler, fully in LC, where I assume additional “real” work would then be done.
> 
> What I mean is, how can one best integrate the “outside” AI work with the “inside” LC work? That is what I have to get my head around.
> 
> Lurking in the background,I do not want AI to put LC out to pasture. I did that once with HC, and still have not gotten over it.
> 
> Craig
> 
>> On May 17, 2023, at 8:26 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> On 5/17/23 5:38 PM, Terry Judd via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Let’s say I have a whole lot of input statements/info, some of which is generic but some of which varies according by user. Any thoughts on whether it might be possible to leverage Xavvi to process and combine that info into useful prose summaries for each user in a way that I can’t already do in Livecode - ie generative AI text rather than merging into template text)?
>> 
>> Well, I'd expect so since Bard can do it, if I understand what you mean. Here's my test. (Bard thinks it's code.)
>> 
>> My prompt: Make a list of 10 people with first and last names. Combine each one into this sentence: "Hello firstname, I'm exploring the family tree of your lastname relatives." Substitute "firstname" with each person's first name and substitute "lastname" with their last name. Return a list, one person per line.
>> 
>> Bard says:
>> 
>> Here is a list of 10 people with first and last names, along with the sentence "Hello firstname, I'm exploring the family tree of your lastname relatives." with each person's first and last name substituted in:
>> Code snippet
>> 
>> Name | Sentence
>> ------- | --------
>> John Smith | Hello John, I'm exploring the family tree of your Smith relatives.
>> Mary Jones | Hello Mary, I'm exploring the family tree of your Jones relatives.
>> Michael Brown | Hello Michael, I'm exploring the family tree of your Brown relatives.
>> David Williams | Hello David, I'm exploring the family tree of your Williams relatives.
>> Susan White | Hello Susan, I'm exploring the family tree of your White relatives.
>> James Green | Hello James, I'm exploring the family tree of your Green relatives.
>> Sarah Black | Hello Sarah, I'm exploring the family tree of your Black relatives.
>> Peter Brown | Hello Peter, I'm exploring the family tree of your Brown relatives.
>> Jessica Smith | Hello Jessica, I'm exploring the family tree of your Smith relatives.
>> 
>> -- 
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From paul at researchware.com  Thu May 18 15:41:56 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Thu, 18 May 2023 15:41:56 -0400
Subject: Livecode enhancements
Message-ID: <3450c4f1-ec99-1e4a-4229-c6139c14f9cc@researchware.com>

I ran into another time today where having the ability to define data 
structures (or templates) in Livecode would be a significant enhancement 
(for me at least) to the language.

I see these 2 enhancement requests that cover defining data 
structures/templates, although they are suggesting different things:

https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=4183
and
https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=9033

I may have missed some other enhancement for the same or similar 
feature. If you know of one, please let me know. I realize most work on 
livecode enhancements will be to support Xavvi and Livecode on the web 
and the things already planned for LC10 and 11, but someday, I really 
like to see a way to define a data structure and make instances of it in LC.




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu May 18 17:14:52 2023
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 18 May 2023 14:14:52 -0700
Subject: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor
In-Reply-To: <1882a84ac70.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <1882a84ac70.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <dcbbc157-edb8-42c8-3f14-e32d4e14db54@fourthworld.com>

J. Landman Gay wrote:

 > I had to make a form yesterday with lots of fields and while it isn't
 > hard, it took 20 minutes to name everything and align the labels and
 > entry fields.

If you need to do that again:

http://fourthworld.net/lc/4W_FormMaker.rev

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu May 18 17:51:08 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 18 May 2023 16:51:08 -0500
Subject: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor
In-Reply-To: <dcbbc157-edb8-42c8-3f14-e32d4e14db54@fourthworld.com>
References: <1882a84ac70.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <dcbbc157-edb8-42c8-3f14-e32d4e14db54@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <d87405bd-bba4-73ed-34b9-5dba36414396@hyperactivesw.com>

On 5/18/23 4:14 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
> J. Landman Gay wrote:
> 
>  > I had to make a form yesterday with lots of fields and while it isn't
>  > hard, it took 20 minutes to name everything and align the labels and
>  > entry fields.
> 
> If you need to do that again:
> 
> http://fourthworld.net/lc/4W_FormMaker.rev
> 

Cool. That does help with alignment and field creation. It would still need some tinkering to 
get the sizes and properties right but it's a quick start.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au  Thu May 18 19:47:38 2023
From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd)
Date: Thu, 18 May 2023 23:47:38 +0000
Subject: Can Xavvi generate sensible text output as well as code?
In-Reply-To: <1882fe28f48.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <57AAA79F-CF93-4E4F-A185-0B4865B045A4@unimelb.edu.au>
 <ee3c341e-b7ee-78ef-8394-eae6d2939375@hyperactivesw.com>
 <781EF3DD-156E-4E1B-B112-E8CEC2E4F452@starfirelighting.com>
 <1882fe28f48.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <ME3PR01MB80827A7E152B73486FC3A417B77F9@ME3PR01MB8082.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>

My day to day work is in medical education – and assessment specifically. I’m interested in using LLMs to (1) help generate assessment items (well draft versions of them at least) and (2) individualised descriptive feedback based on assessment performance.

But, rather than trying to get LC/Xavvi to do it all I think I’ll likely end up using LC draw on the relevant data to construct an appropriate query, passing that to the LLM (ChatGPT, BioMedLM or whatever) via API to generate and return the response, and then having LC deal with it from there (e.g. upload to assessment item bank for further work; assemble and distribute feedback report).

A few hours yesterday spent crafting and refining inputs and queries suggests that’s all entirely possible.

Should be fun!

> How to integrate the AI part with the LC part? Again, one could acquire
> just the list, and then let LC generate the output string. But at least all
> would end up in a handler, fully in LC, where I assume additional “real”
> work would then be done.
>
> What I mean is, how can one best integrate the “outside” AI work with the
> “inside” LC work? That is what I have to get my head around.
>
> Lurking in the background,I do not want AI to put LC out to pasture. I did
> that once with HC, and still have not gotten over it.

From 1anmldr1 at gmail.com  Thu May 18 23:19:54 2023
From: 1anmldr1 at gmail.com (Linda Miller)
Date: Thu, 18 May 2023 21:19:54 -0600
Subject: XAVVI and app/code copyright
Message-ID: <62089657-1CE4-41EB-91BC-92E78778AB66@gmail.com>

All that it would take is a simple statement from LC ltd to clear it up.

But, I am not really worried about it. I am just curious.

Linda


From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Fri May 19 05:28:24 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Fri, 19 May 2023 10:28:24 +0100
Subject: Can Xavvi generate sensible text output as well as code?
In-Reply-To: <1882fe28f48.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <57AAA79F-CF93-4E4F-A185-0B4865B045A4@unimelb.edu.au>
 <ee3c341e-b7ee-78ef-8394-eae6d2939375@hyperactivesw.com>
 <781EF3DD-156E-4E1B-B112-E8CEC2E4F452@starfirelighting.com>
 <1882fe28f48.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <FECA569B-865A-433D-BBA3-50A4326F90D8@gmail.com>

Jacque, well said. And I am also happy. It is a giant step forward for the platform (especially when you add in the other new capabilities). Congrats to everyone who contributed, and to Kevin and all the LC team. We made it happen. 

> On 18 May 2023, at 6:22 pm, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> If you watch some of the videos posted on the challenge page it becomes clearer. LC AI will be integrated into the script editor and will create handlers as expected. You can accept, reject, or revise its output. LC AI knows all about what's available and how to use it. Bard, on other hand, doesn't know LC and can only offer generic output though it does know 20 other coding languages.
> 
> Xavvi is built on top of LC and the team has reassured us many times that the LC we know is not going away. There will be regular updates and you are free to ignore the AI if you want. But given what I've seen so far, I'm betting most of us will use at least some of its features to save time or to expedite certain tasks.
> 
> We made the challenge! I'm happy.
> 
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On May 18, 2023 8:28:42 AM Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> How to integrate the AI part with the LC part? Again, one could acquire just the list, and then let LC generate the output string. But at least all would end up in a handler, fully in LC, where I assume additional “real” work would then be done.
>> 
>> What I mean is, how can one best integrate the “outside” AI work with the “inside” LC work? That is what I have to get my head around.
>> 
>> Lurking in the background,I do not want AI to put LC out to pasture. I did that once with HC, and still have not gotten over it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Fri May 19 05:33:50 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Fri, 19 May 2023 10:33:50 +0100
Subject: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor
In-Reply-To: <dcbbc157-edb8-42c8-3f14-e32d4e14db54@fourthworld.com>
References: <1882a84ac70.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <dcbbc157-edb8-42c8-3f14-e32d4e14db54@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <EC712A5C-4123-4301-87D6-5EECCA4F8D79@gmail.com>

Hi Richard, do you have a short introduction to FormMaker?

> On 18 May 2023, at 10:14 pm, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> If you need to do that again:
> 
> http://fourthworld.net/lc/4W_FormMaker.rev <http://fourthworld.net/lc/4W_FormMaker.rev>


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri May 19 11:51:53 2023
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 19 May 2023 08:51:53 -0700
Subject: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor
In-Reply-To: <EC712A5C-4123-4301-87D6-5EECCA4F8D79@gmail.com>
References: <EC712A5C-4123-4301-87D6-5EECCA4F8D79@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <eaed4b26-788e-ccbc-b133-fb6a68a7d889@fourthworld.com>

Mark Smith wrote:

 > On 18 May 2023, at 10:14 pm, Richard Gaskin wrote:
 >
 >> If you need to do that again:
 >> http://fourthworld.net/lc/4W_FormMaker.rev
 >
 > Hi Richard, do you have a short introduction to FormMaker?

"It makes forms." :)

I have a large number of simple tools (a GB by now?) I've made to help 
with things I've worked on over the years. They're not like products or 
anything, just simple stuff to get a job done.

In this case, it reduces the steps needed to make a simple text entry 
form down to the one thing that will always require variance: the names 
of the fields.  Type those in the field provided, click a button, and it 
creates a label and entry field for each line you'd entered, all inside 
a group so you can easily handle appearance things like text font and 
size, and script binding by looping through all members of the group (I 
tend to populate sets of fields from arrays, with field names matching 
keys so one simple handler gives me binding everywhere quickly without 
having to think about it).

Having a good GUI layout tool like LC valuable.
Having it scriptable to automate common tasks is invaluable.


Some day I'll get around to doing a writeup on a layout construction 
metalanguage I was working on a while back to extend layout automation 
in ways that provide the most construction with the least typing. Maybe 
that'll be a good kickoff for the radically-reimagined 
LiveCodeJournal.com in the works...

--
Richard Gaskin
Fourth World Systems


From dochawk at gmail.com  Fri May 19 15:21:38 2023
From: dochawk at gmail.com (doc hawk)
Date: Fri, 19 May 2023 12:21:38 -0700
Subject: XAVVI and app/code copyright
In-Reply-To: <62089657-1CE4-41EB-91BC-92E78778AB66@gmail.com>
References: <62089657-1CE4-41EB-91BC-92E78778AB66@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EFE02ECC-0A51-496C-94FB-08CC9DB02729@gmail.com>

I’m saying that in the US, it isn’t clear *that* there would be copyright protection for what the AI generated. The current caselaw for patents is that a machine can’t be a creator—but patent and copyright function differently (although I ultimately would expect the same answer for that particular question).


The changes made to the AI output would belong to the person that made them, regardless of the other answers.

But suppose that the AI output is subject to copyright.  If you took that, and changed it, and then someone asked the same or similar question, getting similar code from the AI, that wouldn’t be "derived from” your output from the same question, and thus would be separately eligible for copyright by that person.

Merely being identical is *not* a violation of copyright!

From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Sat May 20 09:22:34 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Sat, 20 May 2023 09:22:34 -0400
Subject: websockets...anything?
Message-ID: <CADCoycNx0_5Lj7eFfDDZmLoKQe=O_T13UO0R7jijUi87K-t6AA@mail.gmail.com>

any news from anyone on lc+websockets?

-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Tue May 23 10:48:19 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Tue, 23 May 2023 15:48:19 +0100
Subject: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor
In-Reply-To: <eaed4b26-788e-ccbc-b133-fb6a68a7d889@fourthworld.com>
References: <EC712A5C-4123-4301-87D6-5EECCA4F8D79@gmail.com>
 <eaed4b26-788e-ccbc-b133-fb6a68a7d889@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <C875D04B-F61A-47F2-8820-D369FED78726@gmail.com>

Thanks Richard. Worked as advertised, and nicely done. For a simple little utility I could see that it could save an enormous amount of time if you had a lot of forms to create. Actually I am working on a demo of sorts showing how to do no-code integration of SQL tables into LC and this little widget could come in very handy as a “quick form” builder. I may get back to you on that. 

> On 19 May 2023, at 4:51 pm, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Some day I'll get around to doing a writeup on a layout construction metalanguage I was working on a while back to extend layout automation in ways that provide the most construction with the least typing. Maybe that'll be a good kickoff for the radically-reimagined LiveCodeJournal.com <http://livecodejournal.com/> in the works...
> 


From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Tue May 23 15:31:21 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Tue, 23 May 2023 15:31:21 -0400
Subject: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor
In-Reply-To: <C875D04B-F61A-47F2-8820-D369FED78726@gmail.com>
References: <EC712A5C-4123-4301-87D6-5EECCA4F8D79@gmail.com>
 <eaed4b26-788e-ccbc-b133-fb6a68a7d889@fourthworld.com>
 <C875D04B-F61A-47F2-8820-D369FED78726@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycOGY4DryEkhQYWoEm1w=UrZ3GYXg-jE19EdVKP1VLSySA@mail.gmail.com>

didn't the old db library (which is still included with LC, and still
gets built into every standalone, whether you choose to include it or
not) have the ability to build forms from db's?

On Tue, May 23, 2023 at 10:49 AM Mark Smith via use-livecode
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks Richard. Worked as advertised, and nicely done. For a simple little utility I could see that it could save an enormous amount of time if you had a lot of forms to create. Actually I am working on a demo of sorts showing how to do no-code integration of SQL tables into LC and this little widget could come in very handy as a “quick form” builder. I may get back to you on that.
>
> > On 19 May 2023, at 4:51 pm, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Some day I'll get around to doing a writeup on a layout construction metalanguage I was working on a while back to extend layout automation in ways that provide the most construction with the least typing. Maybe that'll be a good kickoff for the radically-reimagined LiveCodeJournal.com <http://livecodejournal.com/> in the works...
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."


From tom at makeshyft.com  Tue May 23 20:24:17 2023
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Tue, 23 May 2023 20:24:17 -0400
Subject: websockets...anything?
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycNx0_5Lj7eFfDDZmLoKQe=O_T13UO0R7jijUi87K-t6AA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADCoycNx0_5Lj7eFfDDZmLoKQe=O_T13UO0R7jijUi87K-t6AA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPzQJL+6CRw1QB0x2QZ4xUsok_B7DCB6cQqdJvw=hpTDpNdhhA@mail.gmail.com>

Nope.

I'm wondering how long it would take to go look at specs and implement it.
Anyone in for a team effort? and we get it done without waiting for someone
else to do it?
Or is there a reason why it hasn't been done in all the years that web
sockets have been around?
Shrug.

On Sat, May 20, 2023 at 9:24 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> any news from anyone on lc+websockets?
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>    and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From tom at makeshyft.com  Tue May 23 20:26:43 2023
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Tue, 23 May 2023 20:26:43 -0400
Subject: websockets...anything?
In-Reply-To: <CAPzQJL+6CRw1QB0x2QZ4xUsok_B7DCB6cQqdJvw=hpTDpNdhhA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADCoycNx0_5Lj7eFfDDZmLoKQe=O_T13UO0R7jijUi87K-t6AA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPzQJL+6CRw1QB0x2QZ4xUsok_B7DCB6cQqdJvw=hpTDpNdhhA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPzQJLJKb9vAWWox5hyCPjPuE9MNBHxF2=CevMGnXX0FfYDsOA@mail.gmail.com>

Check out this forum post.

https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?t=37672&p=221502

On Tue, May 23, 2023 at 8:24 PM Tom Glod <tom at makeshyft.com> wrote:

> Nope.
>
> I'm wondering how long it would take to go look at specs and implement it.
> Anyone in for a team effort? and we get it done without waiting for
> someone else to do it?
> Or is there a reason why it hasn't been done in all the years that web
> sockets have been around?
> Shrug.
>
> On Sat, May 20, 2023 at 9:24 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> any news from anyone on lc+websockets?
>>
>> --
>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
>> On the second day, God created the oceans.
>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>>    and did a little diving.
>> And God said, "This is good."
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>

From daniel at digitalfauna.io  Wed May 24 05:42:19 2023
From: daniel at digitalfauna.io (Dan Brown)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2023 10:42:19 +0100
Subject: websockets...anything?
In-Reply-To: <CAPzQJLJKb9vAWWox5hyCPjPuE9MNBHxF2=CevMGnXX0FfYDsOA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADCoycNx0_5Lj7eFfDDZmLoKQe=O_T13UO0R7jijUi87K-t6AA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPzQJL+6CRw1QB0x2QZ4xUsok_B7DCB6cQqdJvw=hpTDpNdhhA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPzQJLJKb9vAWWox5hyCPjPuE9MNBHxF2=CevMGnXX0FfYDsOA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAC+qw6ik=iHcwYzOmNrR4hFrcRvSDsQmDc-txxG5MVPmGFJ5pQ@mail.gmail.com>

You could use STDIN / STDOUT from livecode to communicate with this
websocket server

https://github.com/joewalnes/websocketd

On Wed, 24 May 2023, 01:28 Tom Glod via use-livecode, <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Check out this forum post.
>
> https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?t=37672&p=221502
>
> On Tue, May 23, 2023 at 8:24 PM Tom Glod <tom at makeshyft.com> wrote:
>
> > Nope.
> >
> > I'm wondering how long it would take to go look at specs and implement
> it.
> > Anyone in for a team effort? and we get it done without waiting for
> > someone else to do it?
> > Or is there a reason why it hasn't been done in all the years that web
> > sockets have been around?
> > Shrug.
> >
> > On Sat, May 20, 2023 at 9:24 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >> any news from anyone on lc+websockets?
> >>
> >> --
> >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> >> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
> >>    and did a little diving.
> >> And God said, "This is good."
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Wed May 24 08:48:54 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2023 08:48:54 -0400
Subject: websockets...anything?
In-Reply-To: <CAC+qw6ik=iHcwYzOmNrR4hFrcRvSDsQmDc-txxG5MVPmGFJ5pQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADCoycNx0_5Lj7eFfDDZmLoKQe=O_T13UO0R7jijUi87K-t6AA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPzQJL+6CRw1QB0x2QZ4xUsok_B7DCB6cQqdJvw=hpTDpNdhhA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPzQJLJKb9vAWWox5hyCPjPuE9MNBHxF2=CevMGnXX0FfYDsOA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAC+qw6ik=iHcwYzOmNrR4hFrcRvSDsQmDc-txxG5MVPmGFJ5pQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycNVf1AJu6jCFoEbjkHAiRxZb1xP2VxkBe0ur6jY1C1cTQ@mail.gmail.com>

yeah, i'm off the forums, permanently. i dumped my account, and i'm
not going back.
anyway, i'm not opposed to teaming up. i started reading the RFC, and
then decided to ask, instead.
i also asked chatgpt to help write some code. it was not only
unhelpful, it made up crap that was complete BS. then it tried to
point me to "mergWebSocket", until I called BS, again, and it finally
said "oh, sorry, no bueño"

On Wed, May 24, 2023 at 5:43 AM Dan Brown via use-livecode
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> You could use STDIN / STDOUT from livecode to communicate with this
> websocket server
>
> https://github.com/joewalnes/websocketd
>
> On Wed, 24 May 2023, 01:28 Tom Glod via use-livecode, <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > Check out this forum post.
> >
> > https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?t=37672&p=221502
> >
> > On Tue, May 23, 2023 at 8:24 PM Tom Glod <tom at makeshyft.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Nope.
> > >
> > > I'm wondering how long it would take to go look at specs and implement
> > it.
> > > Anyone in for a team effort? and we get it done without waiting for
> > > someone else to do it?
> > > Or is there a reason why it hasn't been done in all the years that web
> > > sockets have been around?
> > > Shrug.
> > >
> > > On Sat, May 20, 2023 at 9:24 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> any news from anyone on lc+websockets?
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> > >> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> > >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
> > >>    and did a little diving.
> > >> And God said, "This is good."
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> use-livecode mailing list
> > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > >> subscription preferences:
> > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> > >>
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."


From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Wed May 24 08:50:06 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2023 08:50:06 -0400
Subject: websockets...anything?
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycNVf1AJu6jCFoEbjkHAiRxZb1xP2VxkBe0ur6jY1C1cTQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADCoycNx0_5Lj7eFfDDZmLoKQe=O_T13UO0R7jijUi87K-t6AA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPzQJL+6CRw1QB0x2QZ4xUsok_B7DCB6cQqdJvw=hpTDpNdhhA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPzQJLJKb9vAWWox5hyCPjPuE9MNBHxF2=CevMGnXX0FfYDsOA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAC+qw6ik=iHcwYzOmNrR4hFrcRvSDsQmDc-txxG5MVPmGFJ5pQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADCoycNVf1AJu6jCFoEbjkHAiRxZb1xP2VxkBe0ur6jY1C1cTQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycPPy4oGryb54VLsRP8FaVo2+nQ9itAFtR4mQ0RZ4Pum+A@mail.gmail.com>

i'm also more interested in using lc as a client on mobes than as a server.

On Wed, May 24, 2023 at 8:48 AM Mike Kerner <MikeKerner at roadrunner.com> wrote:
>
> yeah, i'm off the forums, permanently. i dumped my account, and i'm
> not going back.
> anyway, i'm not opposed to teaming up. i started reading the RFC, and
> then decided to ask, instead.
> i also asked chatgpt to help write some code. it was not only
> unhelpful, it made up crap that was complete BS. then it tried to
> point me to "mergWebSocket", until I called BS, again, and it finally
> said "oh, sorry, no bueño"
>
> On Wed, May 24, 2023 at 5:43 AM Dan Brown via use-livecode
> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > You could use STDIN / STDOUT from livecode to communicate with this
> > websocket server
> >
> > https://github.com/joewalnes/websocketd
> >
> > On Wed, 24 May 2023, 01:28 Tom Glod via use-livecode, <
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Check out this forum post.
> > >
> > > https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?t=37672&p=221502
> > >
> > > On Tue, May 23, 2023 at 8:24 PM Tom Glod <tom at makeshyft.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Nope.
> > > >
> > > > I'm wondering how long it would take to go look at specs and implement
> > > it.
> > > > Anyone in for a team effort? and we get it done without waiting for
> > > > someone else to do it?
> > > > Or is there a reason why it hasn't been done in all the years that web
> > > > sockets have been around?
> > > > Shrug.
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, May 20, 2023 at 9:24 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> any news from anyone on lc+websockets?
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> > > >> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> > > >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
> > > >>    and did a little diving.
> > > >> And God said, "This is good."
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> use-livecode mailing list
> > > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > > >> subscription preferences:
> > > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > use-livecode mailing list
> > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > > subscription preferences:
> > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>    and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."



-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."


From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Wed May 24 09:00:54 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2023 09:00:54 -0400
Subject: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycOGY4DryEkhQYWoEm1w=UrZ3GYXg-jE19EdVKP1VLSySA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <EC712A5C-4123-4301-87D6-5EECCA4F8D79@gmail.com>
 <eaed4b26-788e-ccbc-b133-fb6a68a7d889@fourthworld.com>
 <C875D04B-F61A-47F2-8820-D369FED78726@gmail.com>
 <CADCoycOGY4DryEkhQYWoEm1w=UrZ3GYXg-jE19EdVKP1VLSySA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycNTS6e212fkR8Y=QuL_76MN=HW2kYGJfXLd1KEghh3WcQ@mail.gmail.com>

interesting piece on ycombinator on chatgpt and code:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36037559

over the weekend, i was messing around with websockets, and decided to
try messing with chatgpt to build a little library to implement a
websocket client in lc.
the results were ungreat.

On Tue, May 23, 2023 at 3:31 PM Mike Kerner <MikeKerner at roadrunner.com> wrote:
>
> didn't the old db library (which is still included with LC, and still
> gets built into every standalone, whether you choose to include it or
> not) have the ability to build forms from db's?
>
> On Tue, May 23, 2023 at 10:49 AM Mark Smith via use-livecode
> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Richard. Worked as advertised, and nicely done. For a simple little utility I could see that it could save an enormous amount of time if you had a lot of forms to create. Actually I am working on a demo of sorts showing how to do no-code integration of SQL tables into LC and this little widget could come in very handy as a “quick form” builder. I may get back to you on that.
> >
> > > On 19 May 2023, at 4:51 pm, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Some day I'll get around to doing a writeup on a layout construction metalanguage I was working on a while back to extend layout automation in ways that provide the most construction with the least typing. Maybe that'll be a good kickoff for the radically-reimagined LiveCodeJournal.com <http://livecodejournal.com/> in the works...
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>    and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."



-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."


From dan at clearvisiontech.com  Wed May 24 12:55:44 2023
From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2023 16:55:44 +0000
Subject: Android Status Bar Icon
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycNTS6e212fkR8Y=QuL_76MN=HW2kYGJfXLd1KEghh3WcQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <EC712A5C-4123-4301-87D6-5EECCA4F8D79@gmail.com>
 <eaed4b26-788e-ccbc-b133-fb6a68a7d889@fourthworld.com>
 <C875D04B-F61A-47F2-8820-D369FED78726@gmail.com>
 <CADCoycOGY4DryEkhQYWoEm1w=UrZ3GYXg-jE19EdVKP1VLSySA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADCoycNTS6e212fkR8Y=QuL_76MN=HW2kYGJfXLd1KEghh3WcQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BYAPR12MB2709854CF3A56F9A2527E5BEB9419@BYAPR12MB2709.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>

Greetings!   I am seeing inconsistent results on the status bar icon on Android.  On some devices (most running Android 9), the icon that appears in a push message is a white or grey square.  I have tried using a 24x24 PNG for the Status Bar Icon and I also tried a 512x512.   Another device running Android 10, displays the image just fine (at either size).  Is there an image size that I should be using?  Or are there incompatibility with LC and Android 9?

Anyone have any insight to this issue?

-Dan

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed May 24 13:54:42 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2023 12:54:42 -0500
Subject: Android Status Bar Icon
In-Reply-To: <BYAPR12MB2709854CF3A56F9A2527E5BEB9419@BYAPR12MB2709.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
References: <EC712A5C-4123-4301-87D6-5EECCA4F8D79@gmail.com>
 <eaed4b26-788e-ccbc-b133-fb6a68a7d889@fourthworld.com>
 <C875D04B-F61A-47F2-8820-D369FED78726@gmail.com>
 <CADCoycOGY4DryEkhQYWoEm1w=UrZ3GYXg-jE19EdVKP1VLSySA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADCoycNTS6e212fkR8Y=QuL_76MN=HW2kYGJfXLd1KEghh3WcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <BYAPR12MB2709854CF3A56F9A2527E5BEB9419@BYAPR12MB2709.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <1884ee616d0.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

Try 24 x 24.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 24, 2023 11:58:37 AM Dan Friedman via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Greetings!   I am seeing inconsistent results on the status bar icon on 
> Android.  On some devices (most running Android 9), the icon that appears 
> in a push message is a white or grey square.  I have tried using a 24x24 
> PNG for the Status Bar Icon and I also tried a 512x512.   Another device 
> running Android 10, displays the image just fine (at either size).  Is 
> there an image size that I should be using?  Or are there incompatibility 
> with LC and Android 9?
>
> Anyone have any insight to this issue?
>
> -Dan
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed May 24 13:56:47 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2023 12:56:47 -0500
Subject: Android Status Bar Icon
In-Reply-To: <BYAPR12MB2709854CF3A56F9A2527E5BEB9419@BYAPR12MB2709.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
References: <EC712A5C-4123-4301-87D6-5EECCA4F8D79@gmail.com>
 <eaed4b26-788e-ccbc-b133-fb6a68a7d889@fourthworld.com>
 <C875D04B-F61A-47F2-8820-D369FED78726@gmail.com>
 <CADCoycOGY4DryEkhQYWoEm1w=UrZ3GYXg-jE19EdVKP1VLSySA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADCoycNTS6e212fkR8Y=QuL_76MN=HW2kYGJfXLd1KEghh3WcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <BYAPR12MB2709854CF3A56F9A2527E5BEB9419@BYAPR12MB2709.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <1884ee7ff18.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

Oops I see you already did a 24x24. That's the suggested size. Maybe see 
what a 16 x 16 does.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 24, 2023 11:58:37 AM Dan Friedman via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Greetings!   I am seeing inconsistent results on the status bar icon on 
> Android.  On some devices (most running Android 9), the icon that appears 
> in a push message is a white or grey square.  I have tried using a 24x24 
> PNG for the Status Bar Icon and I also tried a 512x512.   Another device 
> running Android 10, displays the image just fine (at either size).  Is 
> there an image size that I should be using?  Or are there incompatibility 
> with LC and Android 9?
>
> Anyone have any insight to this issue?
>
> -Dan
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Wed May 24 15:58:10 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2023 20:58:10 +0100
Subject: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycOGY4DryEkhQYWoEm1w=UrZ3GYXg-jE19EdVKP1VLSySA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <EC712A5C-4123-4301-87D6-5EECCA4F8D79@gmail.com>
 <eaed4b26-788e-ccbc-b133-fb6a68a7d889@fourthworld.com>
 <C875D04B-F61A-47F2-8820-D369FED78726@gmail.com>
 <CADCoycOGY4DryEkhQYWoEm1w=UrZ3GYXg-jE19EdVKP1VLSySA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A9063093-3C5B-4D23-AF7A-B643CF1F2490@gmail.com>

Hi Mike, 

Not that I’m aware of. Apart from Richard’s utility, the only other way I’ve seen used is dragging items from the tools palette. Not a terrible process as no-code is involved in doing so (so you don’t have frustrations with syntax to deal with), but as Jacque points out, if you have a lot of this to do, it can get tedious. 

Mark

> On 23 May 2023, at 8:31 pm, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> didn't the old db library (which is still included with LC, and still
> gets built into every standalone, whether you choose to include it or
> not) have the ability to build forms from db's?


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu May 25 11:04:59 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2023 15:04:59 +0000
Subject: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor
In-Reply-To: <A9063093-3C5B-4D23-AF7A-B643CF1F2490@gmail.com>
References: <EC712A5C-4123-4301-87D6-5EECCA4F8D79@gmail.com>
 <eaed4b26-788e-ccbc-b133-fb6a68a7d889@fourthworld.com>
 <C875D04B-F61A-47F2-8820-D369FED78726@gmail.com>
 <CADCoycOGY4DryEkhQYWoEm1w=UrZ3GYXg-jE19EdVKP1VLSySA@mail.gmail.com>
 <A9063093-3C5B-4D23-AF7A-B643CF1F2490@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SJ0PR02MB7533DD6A1D7C4C47E02C4060B2469@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>

I create datagrids with some properties that help me with database queries. For instance one property is the name of the table I source for the data. So I came up with the idea of popping up a menu when I right click on a datagrid, where I can select a column from the table, and then wherever I click next, it will create a field and label in a group, all named after the column wherever I click next. The fields I produce also have a property for the column name, so when I populate a form, I provide an array of the datagrid data to the handler which iterates through all the fields looking for that property, and fills the fields with data from that array. 

So while creating forms is tedious, it can be made a good deal less tedious by doing some coding on the front end. 

Bob S


-----Original Message-----
Hi Mike, 

Not that I’m aware of. Apart from Richard’s utility, the only other way I’ve seen used is dragging items from the tools palette. Not a terrible process as no-code is involved in doing so (so you don’t have frustrations with syntax to deal with), but as Jacque points out, if you have a lot of this to do, it can get tedious. 

Mark

> On 23 May 2023, at 8:31 pm, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> didn't the old db library (which is still included with LC, and still 
> gets built into every standalone, whether you choose to include it or
> not) have the ability to build forms from db's?



From klaus at major-k.de  Thu May 25 11:22:47 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2023 17:22:47 +0200
Subject: Android and USB footswitch
Message-ID: <B12CE181-3E47-4F1B-9AB1-E86191611237@major-k.de>

Hi friends,

I'm still an active musician (bass guitar) and am currently playing in four bands.

Nowadays bulky music stands on stage are OUT and tablets are IN!
So I am considering to create a little app for myself to display PDF leadsheets 
(= lyrics and chord symbols) on an Andorid tablet, which I still have to buy. :-)

There are some USB footswitches, and I would like to use one of them to browse 
through the (multipage) PDFs (next page, previous page).

Anyone knows if these switches will act like an "external keyboard", means if they 
will just send any RAWKEY that I could catch in LC? 
Or will I need something created with LCB to do so?

Thanks for any hint!

P.S.
Since PDFs are not accessible via "mobilepickmedia" are there ANY other ways to add 
some PDFs later without having to download them from some URL?


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org  Thu May 25 11:41:53 2023
From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (William Prothero)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2023 08:41:53 -0700
Subject: Android and USB footswitch
In-Reply-To: <B12CE181-3E47-4F1B-9AB1-E86191611237@major-k.de>
References: <B12CE181-3E47-4F1B-9AB1-E86191611237@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <4742739B-0701-4A46-BFF7-1C42497F5356@earthlearningsolutions.org>

Klaus,
I'm a musician/hobbyist too. Check out iGigbook. It does all that stuff and it's cheap.
Bill Prothero

William A. Prothero, PhD
Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science
University of California, Santa Barbara

> On May 25, 2023, at 8:23 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi friends,
> 
> I'm still an active musician (bass guitar) and am currently playing in four bands.
> 
> Nowadays bulky music stands on stage are OUT and tablets are IN!
> So I am considering to create a little app for myself to display PDF leadsheets 
> (= lyrics and chord symbols) on an Andorid tablet, which I still have to buy. :-)
> 
> There are some USB footswitches, and I would like to use one of them to browse 
> through the (multipage) PDFs (next page, previous page).
> 
> Anyone knows if these switches will act like an "external keyboard", means if they 
> will just send any RAWKEY that I could catch in LC? 
> Or will I need something created with LCB to do so?
> 
> Thanks for any hint!
> 
> P.S.
> Since PDFs are not accessible via "mobilepickmedia" are there ANY other ways to add 
> some PDFs later without having to download them from some URL?
> 
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From klaus at major-k.de  Thu May 25 11:57:32 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2023 17:57:32 +0200
Subject: Android and USB footswitch
In-Reply-To: <4742739B-0701-4A46-BFF7-1C42497F5356@earthlearningsolutions.org>
References: <B12CE181-3E47-4F1B-9AB1-E86191611237@major-k.de>
 <4742739B-0701-4A46-BFF7-1C42497F5356@earthlearningsolutions.org>
Message-ID: <FC326F46-5B3F-4707-AB8B-D652DF88E38B@major-k.de>

Hi Bill,

> Am 25.05.2023 um 17:41 schrieb William Prothero via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Klaus,
> I'm a musician/hobbyist too. Check out iGigbook. It does all that stuff and it's cheap.

thank you, but what the webpage does not tell is, if it supports footswitches and if one can "easily" 
import own PDF files from the device itself!?

And I wanted create this by myself, just for the fun of it. :-)
So my questions are still unanswered....

> Bill Prothero
> 
> William A. Prothero, PhD
> Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science
> University of California, Santa Barbara
> 
>> On May 25, 2023, at 8:23 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi friends,
>> 
>> I'm still an active musician (bass guitar) and am currently playing in four bands.
>> 
>> Nowadays bulky music stands on stage are OUT and tablets are IN!
>> So I am considering to create a little app for myself to display PDF leadsheets 
>> (= lyrics and chord symbols) on an Andorid tablet, which I still have to buy. :-)
>> 
>> There are some USB footswitches, and I would like to use one of them to browse 
>> through the (multipage) PDFs (next page, previous page).
>> 
>> Anyone knows if these switches will act like an "external keyboard", means if they 
>> will just send any RAWKEY that I could catch in LC? 
>> Or will I need something created with LCB to do so?
>> 
>> Thanks for any hint!
>> 
>> P.S.
>> Since PDFs are not accessible via "mobilepickmedia" are there ANY other ways to add 
>> some PDFs later without having to download them from some URL?

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org  Thu May 25 12:31:38 2023
From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (William Prothero)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2023 09:31:38 -0700
Subject: Android and USB footswitch
In-Reply-To: <FC326F46-5B3F-4707-AB8B-D652DF88E38B@major-k.de>
References: <FC326F46-5B3F-4707-AB8B-D652DF88E38B@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <BFE44E83-1C3B-4AA6-AA18-5343004B970F@earthlearningsolutions.org>

Klaus,
I'm not sure if it is supported on Android, but on an apple ipad, it supports pdf display, foot switch (pager) and even has an addon for displaying realbook scores in different keys. It's very popular among concert musicians as well. Personally, I bought a large screen ipad that displays the scores at full page size and supports apple pencil annotating of scores. It's main drawback is the documentation for the app was written by the programmer and it's pretty unclear. I love the app anyway, though.

Downside is that the ipad is expensive, but sure makes keeping track of music a lot easier.

Best,
Bill

William A. Prothero, PhD
Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science
University of California, Santa Barbara

> On May 25, 2023, at 8:58 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Bill,
> 
>> Am 25.05.2023 um 17:41 schrieb William Prothero via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Klaus,
>> I'm a musician/hobbyist too. Check out iGigbook. It does all that stuff and it's cheap.
> 
> thank you, but what the webpage does not tell is, if it supports footswitches and if one can "easily" 
> import own PDF files from the device itself!?
> 
> And I wanted create this by myself, just for the fun of it. :-)
> So my questions are still unanswered....
> 
>> Bill Prothero
>> 
>> William A. Prothero, PhD
>> Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science
>> University of California, Santa Barbara
>> 
>>>> On May 25, 2023, at 8:23 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi friends,
>>> 
>>> I'm still an active musician (bass guitar) and am currently playing in four bands.
>>> 
>>> Nowadays bulky music stands on stage are OUT and tablets are IN!
>>> So I am considering to create a little app for myself to display PDF leadsheets 
>>> (= lyrics and chord symbols) on an Andorid tablet, which I still have to buy. :-)
>>> 
>>> There are some USB footswitches, and I would like to use one of them to browse 
>>> through the (multipage) PDFs (next page, previous page).
>>> 
>>> Anyone knows if these switches will act like an "external keyboard", means if they 
>>> will just send any RAWKEY that I could catch in LC? 
>>> Or will I need something created with LCB to do so?
>>> 
>>> Thanks for any hint!
>>> 
>>> P.S.
>>> Since PDFs are not accessible via "mobilepickmedia" are there ANY other ways to add 
>>> some PDFs later without having to download them from some URL?
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From klaus at major-k.de  Thu May 25 12:44:39 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2023 18:44:39 +0200
Subject: Android and USB footswitch
In-Reply-To: <BFE44E83-1C3B-4AA6-AA18-5343004B970F@earthlearningsolutions.org>
References: <FC326F46-5B3F-4707-AB8B-D652DF88E38B@major-k.de>
 <BFE44E83-1C3B-4AA6-AA18-5343004B970F@earthlearningsolutions.org>
Message-ID: <22A14A13-AB6B-4163-A2F7-F884826DE407@major-k.de>

Hi Bill,

> Am 25.05.2023 um 18:31 schrieb William Prothero via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> Klaus,
> I'm not sure if it is supported on Android, but on an apple ipad, it supports pdf display, foot switch (pager) and even has an addon for displaying realbook scores in different keys. It's very popular among concert musicians as well. Personally, I bought a large screen ipad that displays the scores at full page size and supports apple pencil annotating of scores. It's main drawback is the documentation for the app was written by the programmer and it's pretty unclear. I love the app anyway, though.
> Downside is that the ipad is expensive, but sure makes keeping track of music a lot easier.

sure, but I can definitively only afford a used Android tablet.

> Best,
> Bill

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From ahsoftware at sonic.net  Thu May 25 12:51:13 2023
From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2023 09:51:13 -0700
Subject: Android and USB footswitch
In-Reply-To: <B12CE181-3E47-4F1B-9AB1-E86191611237@major-k.de>
References: <B12CE181-3E47-4F1B-9AB1-E86191611237@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <c2b44ed7-b447-4995-cf7a-02ea2eb6c6c1@sonic.net>

On 5/25/23 08:22, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi friends,
> 
> I'm still an active musician (bass guitar) and am currently playing in four bands.
> 
> Nowadays bulky music stands on stage are OUT and tablets are IN!
> So I am considering to create a little app for myself to display PDF leadsheets
> (= lyrics and chord symbols) on an Andorid tablet, which I still have to buy. :-)
> 
> There are some USB footswitches, and I would like to use one of them to browse
> through the (multipage) PDFs (next page, previous page).
> 
> Anyone knows if these switches will act like an "external keyboard", means if they
> will just send any RAWKEY that I could catch in LC?
> Or will I need something created with LCB to do so?

I use a Lekato Page Turner. It also works with my Lekato Looper.

<https://www.amazon.com/LEKATO-External-Switching-Functions-Function/dp/B08GYHWGYH>

At one point I was also managing to play in four bands. Knocking it down 
to three simplified my life immensely. Highly recommended.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From klaus at major-k.de  Thu May 25 15:49:07 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2023 21:49:07 +0200
Subject: Android and USB footswitch
In-Reply-To: <c2b44ed7-b447-4995-cf7a-02ea2eb6c6c1@sonic.net>
References: <B12CE181-3E47-4F1B-9AB1-E86191611237@major-k.de>
 <c2b44ed7-b447-4995-cf7a-02ea2eb6c6c1@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <48138978-006A-4058-A5EA-751CA3E455F3@major-k.de>

Hi Mark,

> Am 25.05.2023 um 18:51 schrieb Mark Wieder via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> On 5/25/23 08:22, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hi friends,
>> I'm still an active musician (bass guitar) and am currently playing in four bands.
>> Nowadays bulky music stands on stage are OUT and tablets are IN!
>> So I am considering to create a little app for myself to display PDF leadsheets
>> (= lyrics and chord symbols) on an Andorid tablet, which I still have to buy. :-)
>> There are some USB footswitches, and I would like to use one of them to browse
>> through the (multipage) PDFs (next page, previous page).
>> Anyone knows if these switches will act like an "external keyboard", means if they
>> will just send any RAWKEY that I could catch in LC?
>> Or will I need something created with LCB to do so?
> 
> I use a Lekato Page Turner. It also works with my Lekato Looper.
> <https://www.amazon.com/LEKATO-External-Switching-Functions-Function/dp/B08GYHWGYH>

since LC does not support bluetooth on Android (yet?), I need an USB device. Or does it?
Remember, I want to do it by myself! :-)

Already found a cheap USB device on Amazhon which looks like it could do the job.
But first I need to get a cheap tablet with a not too old Android version, so LC will support it.

> At one point I was also managing to play in four bands. Knocking it down to three simplified my life immensely. Highly recommended.

I am retired, don't have family and a lot more time than money, no problem for me, Sir! :-D


However my two questions are still unanswered.
1. Anyone knows if these switches will act like an "external keyboard", means if they
will just send any RAWKEY that I could catch in LC?

2. Since PDFs are not accessible via "mobilepickmedia" are there ANY other ways to add 
some PDFs later without having to download them from some URL?

> -- 
> Mark Wieder
> ahsoftware at gmail.com

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Thu May 25 16:32:25 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2023 22:32:25 +0200
Subject: Android and USB footswitch
In-Reply-To: <48138978-006A-4058-A5EA-751CA3E455F3@major-k.de>
References: <B12CE181-3E47-4F1B-9AB1-E86191611237@major-k.de>
 <c2b44ed7-b447-4995-cf7a-02ea2eb6c6c1@sonic.net>
 <48138978-006A-4058-A5EA-751CA3E455F3@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <7864C712-4A5B-4AC5-ACC3-2E5F5BE8CC93@m-r-d.de>

Klaus, 

this footswitch for example is detected as HID device. 
https://www.scythe-eu.com/produkte/pc-zubehoer/usb-foot-switch-ii.html


The functions of the switch(es) have to be configured with the included software on a Windows PC first. After that the switch can be used on other devices without any additonal software.
As most Android devices will support USB keyboards, this should work. 

If the Android device has a memory card slot you could store the PDFs on a memory card and let your LC app then access this storage card. To update the PDF files you eihter have  to connect your tablet with your PC or Mac as an external drive or you could remove the memory card from the tablet and use it in a cardreader on a PC or Mac.

I have here an older table laying around which I could send to you. But i have to check its os version first.

Regards,
Matthias

> Am 25.05.2023 um 21:49 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi Mark,
> 
>> Am 25.05.2023 um 18:51 schrieb Mark Wieder via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> On 5/25/23 08:22, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Hi friends,
>>> I'm still an active musician (bass guitar) and am currently playing in four bands.
>>> Nowadays bulky music stands on stage are OUT and tablets are IN!
>>> So I am considering to create a little app for myself to display PDF leadsheets
>>> (= lyrics and chord symbols) on an Andorid tablet, which I still have to buy. :-)
>>> There are some USB footswitches, and I would like to use one of them to browse
>>> through the (multipage) PDFs (next page, previous page).
>>> Anyone knows if these switches will act like an "external keyboard", means if they
>>> will just send any RAWKEY that I could catch in LC?
>>> Or will I need something created with LCB to do so?
>> 
>> I use a Lekato Page Turner. It also works with my Lekato Looper.
>> <https://www.amazon.com/LEKATO-External-Switching-Functions-Function/dp/B08GYHWGYH>
> 
> since LC does not support bluetooth on Android (yet?), I need an USB device. Or does it?
> Remember, I want to do it by myself! :-)
> 
> Already found a cheap USB device on Amazhon which looks like it could do the job.
> But first I need to get a cheap tablet with a not too old Android version, so LC will support it.
> 
>> At one point I was also managing to play in four bands. Knocking it down to three simplified my life immensely. Highly recommended.
> 
> I am retired, don't have family and a lot more time than money, no problem for me, Sir! :-D
> 
> 
> However my two questions are still unanswered.
> 1. Anyone knows if these switches will act like an "external keyboard", means if they
> will just send any RAWKEY that I could catch in LC?
> 
> 2. Since PDFs are not accessible via "mobilepickmedia" are there ANY other ways to add 
> some PDFs later without having to download them from some URL?
> 
>> -- 
>> Mark Wieder
>> ahsoftware at gmail.com <mailto:ahsoftware at gmail.com>
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de <https://www.major-k.de/>
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de <mailto:klaus at major-k.de>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Thu May 25 18:03:28 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2023 00:03:28 +0200
Subject: Android and USB footswitch
In-Reply-To: <7864C712-4A5B-4AC5-ACC3-2E5F5BE8CC93@m-r-d.de>
References: <B12CE181-3E47-4F1B-9AB1-E86191611237@major-k.de>
 <c2b44ed7-b447-4995-cf7a-02ea2eb6c6c1@sonic.net>
 <48138978-006A-4058-A5EA-751CA3E455F3@major-k.de>
 <7864C712-4A5B-4AC5-ACC3-2E5F5BE8CC93@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <29354EAD-FFF8-4449-9EB7-D84711EFE88B@m-r-d.de>

Klaus,

> Am 25.05.2023 um 22:32 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Klaus, 
> 
> this footswitch for example is detected as HID device. 
> https://www.scythe-eu.com/produkte/pc-zubehoer/usb-foot-switch-ii.html
> 
> 
The following refers to the switch of the above link and not for all usb switches.

> The functions of the switch(es) have to be configured with the included software on a Windows PC first. After that the switch can be used on other devices without any additonal software.
> As most Android devices will support USB keyboards, this should work. 


From sean at pidigital.co.uk  Thu May 25 18:24:56 2023
From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Pi Digital)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2023 23:24:56 +0100
Subject: Android and USB footswitch
In-Reply-To: <22A14A13-AB6B-4163-A2F7-F884826DE407@major-k.de>
References: <22A14A13-AB6B-4163-A2F7-F884826DE407@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <559C7AFE-B912-4E4F-A32B-2E257D7B44F8@pidigital.co.uk>

Hi Klaus
Get something like this. 
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/404250759038?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=kxdzbfgltem&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=GspHaDqVTAS&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
A usb footswitch will work like a mouse but with a different signature. The hub will be picked up via the tablet in a LiveCode app through the usual Bluetooth lib. Once it’s in you need to connect to the usb port from the hub and listen for messages. 

There are also these which work even better with built in BT - designed for RaspPi
https://dylanbeattie.net/2020/05/17/turning-a-raspberry-pi-zero-into-a-usb-footpedal.html

All the best buddy. 

Sean Cole
Pi Digital


> On 25 May 2023, at 17:44, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Bill,
> 
>> Am 25.05.2023 um 18:31 schrieb William Prothero via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> Klaus,
>> I'm not sure if it is supported on Android, but on an apple ipad, it supports pdf display, foot switch (pager) and even has an addon for displaying realbook scores in different keys. It's very popular among concert musicians as well. Personally, I bought a large screen ipad that displays the scores at full page size and supports apple pencil annotating of scores. It's main drawback is the documentation for the app was written by the programmer and it's pretty unclear. I love the app anyway, though.
>> Downside is that the ipad is expensive, but sure makes keeping track of music a lot easier.
> 
> sure, but I can definitively only afford a used Android tablet.
> 
>> Best,
>> Bill
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

From harrison at all-auctions.com  Thu May 25 21:32:11 2023
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2023 21:32:11 -0400
Subject: Android and USB footswitch
In-Reply-To: <559C7AFE-B912-4E4F-A32B-2E257D7B44F8@pidigital.co.uk>
References: <22A14A13-AB6B-4163-A2F7-F884826DE407@major-k.de>
 <559C7AFE-B912-4E4F-A32B-2E257D7B44F8@pidigital.co.uk>
Message-ID: <B4249729-D314-473E-9D25-98CCD9A7C4FC@all-auctions.com>

Hi Klaus,

A  quick and really dirty solution:

Find an old wireless or BlueTooth computer mouse that you really don’t like,
and use it as a foot switch.  That will be super easy for LiveCode to detect too!

Have fun!

Rick

> On May 25, 2023, at 6:24 PM, Pi Digital via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> A usb footswitch will work like a mouse but with a different signature. 


From klaus at major-k.de  Fri May 26 03:23:07 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2023 09:23:07 +0200
Subject: Android and USB footswitch
In-Reply-To: <B4249729-D314-473E-9D25-98CCD9A7C4FC@all-auctions.com>
References: <22A14A13-AB6B-4163-A2F7-F884826DE407@major-k.de>
 <559C7AFE-B912-4E4F-A32B-2E257D7B44F8@pidigital.co.uk>
 <B4249729-D314-473E-9D25-98CCD9A7C4FC@all-auctions.com>
Message-ID: <BB7EAC76-B341-4546-A00F-2CDA76AC3277@major-k.de>

Hi Rick,

> Am 26.05.2023 um 03:32 schrieb harrison--- via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi Klaus,
> 
> A  quick and really dirty solution:
> 
> Find an old wireless or BlueTooth computer mouse that you really don’t like,
> and use it as a foot switch.  That will be super easy for LiveCode to detect too!

thank you.

However I said I will need a USB device, since LC on Android (ANDROID!) does not 
support bluetooth/wireless.

> Have fun!
> 
> Rick
> 
>> On May 25, 2023, at 6:24 PM, Pi Digital via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> A usb footswitch will work like a mouse but with a different signature. 

Best

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From klaus at major-k.de  Fri May 26 03:25:54 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2023 09:25:54 +0200
Subject: Android and USB footswitch
In-Reply-To: <559C7AFE-B912-4E4F-A32B-2E257D7B44F8@pidigital.co.uk>
References: <22A14A13-AB6B-4163-A2F7-F884826DE407@major-k.de>
 <559C7AFE-B912-4E4F-A32B-2E257D7B44F8@pidigital.co.uk>
Message-ID: <6BB0FBE8-8025-4405-BA95-7D6DCB41007E@major-k.de>

Hi Sean,

> Am 26.05.2023 um 00:24 schrieb Pi Digital via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi Klaus
> Get something like this. 
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/404250759038?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=kxdzbfgltem&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=GspHaDqVTAS&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
> A usb footswitch will work like a mouse but with a different signature. The hub will be picked up via the tablet in a LiveCode app through the usual Bluetooth lib. Once it’s in you need to connect to the usb port from the hub and listen for messages. 
> There are also these which work even better with built in BT - designed for RaspPi
> https://dylanbeattie.net/2020/05/17/turning-a-raspberry-pi-zero-into-a-usb-footpedal.html
> All the best buddy. 

thank you, I actually want an easy and more straighforward solution.

> Sean Cole
> Pi Digital

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From klaus at major-k.de  Fri May 26 03:42:13 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2023 09:42:13 +0200
Subject: Android and USB footswitch
In-Reply-To: <7864C712-4A5B-4AC5-ACC3-2E5F5BE8CC93@m-r-d.de>
References: <B12CE181-3E47-4F1B-9AB1-E86191611237@major-k.de>
 <c2b44ed7-b447-4995-cf7a-02ea2eb6c6c1@sonic.net>
 <48138978-006A-4058-A5EA-751CA3E455F3@major-k.de>
 <7864C712-4A5B-4AC5-ACC3-2E5F5BE8CC93@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <714973A4-B23E-4CDA-B4AA-EC7DE45094FD@major-k.de>

Hi Matthias,

> Am 25.05.2023 um 22:32 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Klaus, 
> 
> this footswitch for example is detected as HID device. 
> https://www.scythe-eu.com/produkte/pc-zubehoer/usb-foot-switch-ii.html

yep, I will need something like this, thank you!

> The functions of the switch(es) have to be configured with the included software on a Windows PC first. After that the switch can be used on other devices without any additonal software. As most Android devices will support USB keyboards, this should work. 

I am counting on this fact! :-)

> If the Android device has a memory card slot you could store the PDFs on a memory card and let your LC app then access this storage card. To update the PDF files you eihter have  to connect your tablet with your PC or Mac as an external drive or you could remove the memory card from the tablet and use it in a cardreader on a PC or Mac.

I have a SD card in my old Samsung cell phone and tried exactly this, but did not work.
I checked "external storage" in the STAB, installed the test app and connected the phone to my Mac.
Then I copied an image into the appropriate "com.whatever...". (sub)folder on the SD but LC did not 
see the file in -> specialfolderpath("external documents")!?
Did I do it wrong?

> I have here an older table laying around which I could send to you. But i have to check its os version first.

That would be wonderful, Matthias. Please conact me privately.
LC needs at least Android 5.1.

Thanks a lot!

There is even a feature request/bug report for accessing more public Android folders:
<https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23526>

> Regards,
> Matthias

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Fri May 26 04:39:31 2023
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2023 11:39:31 +0300
Subject: Android and USB footswitch
In-Reply-To: <B12CE181-3E47-4F1B-9AB1-E86191611237@major-k.de>
References: <B12CE181-3E47-4F1B-9AB1-E86191611237@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <4eb71b59-4496-f7f7-f277-7d586586f37e@gmail.com>

https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Optical-Computer-Keyboard-Fortnite-Transcription/dp/B08QZ4H31C/ref=sr_1_4?crid=2WJV976H8HKK1&keywords=usb+foot+pedal&qid=1685090338&sprefix=USb+foot+pedal%2Caps%2C107&sr=8-4

On 25.05.23 18:22, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi friends,
>
> I'm still an active musician (bass guitar) and am currently playing in four bands.
>
> Nowadays bulky music stands on stage are OUT and tablets are IN!
> So I am considering to create a little app for myself to display PDF leadsheets
> (= lyrics and chord symbols) on an Andorid tablet, which I still have to buy. :-)
>
> There are some USB footswitches, and I would like to use one of them to browse
> through the (multipage) PDFs (next page, previous page).
>
> Anyone knows if these switches will act like an "external keyboard", means if they
> will just send any RAWKEY that I could catch in LC?
> Or will I need something created with LCB to do so?
>
> Thanks for any hint!
>
> P.S.
> Since PDFs are not accessible via "mobilepickmedia" are there ANY other ways to add
> some PDFs later without having to download them from some URL?
>
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From klaus at major-k.de  Fri May 26 04:57:18 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2023 10:57:18 +0200
Subject: Android and USB footswitch
In-Reply-To: <4eb71b59-4496-f7f7-f277-7d586586f37e@gmail.com>
References: <B12CE181-3E47-4F1B-9AB1-E86191611237@major-k.de>
 <4eb71b59-4496-f7f7-f277-7d586586f37e@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5D9CF0E7-4FF2-4586-9A2D-F86F0AED084F@major-k.de>

<https://media.istockphoto.com/id/1397892955/de/foto/dankeschön-nachricht-für-karte-präsentation-geschäft-dankbarkeit-anerkennung-und-wertschätzung.jpg?s=612x612&w=0&k=20&c=rRIsJfwYLGSL1jsgoSKpZ1VaZp9PvhkJUbtCCfUxibQ=>

> Am 26.05.2023 um 10:39 schrieb Richmond via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Optical-Computer-Keyboard-Fortnite-Transcription/dp/B08QZ4H31C/ref=sr_1_4?crid=2WJV976H8HKK1&keywords=usb+foot+pedal&qid=1685090338&sprefix=USb+foot+pedal%2Caps%2C107&sr=8-4
> 
> On 25.05.23 18:22, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hi friends,
>> 
>> I'm still an active musician (bass guitar) and am currently playing in four bands.
>> 
>> Nowadays bulky music stands on stage are OUT and tablets are IN!
>> So I am considering to create a little app for myself to display PDF leadsheets
>> (= lyrics and chord symbols) on an Andorid tablet, which I still have to buy. :-)
>> 
>> There are some USB footswitches, and I would like to use one of them to browse
>> through the (multipage) PDFs (next page, previous page).
>> 
>> Anyone knows if these switches will act like an "external keyboard", means if they
>> will just send any RAWKEY that I could catch in LC?
>> Or will I need something created with LCB to do so?
>> 
>> Thanks for any hint!
>> 
>> P.S.
>> Since PDFs are not accessible via "mobilepickmedia" are there ANY other ways to add
>> some PDFs later without having to download them from some URL?
>> 
>> 
>> Best
>> 
>> Klaus

:-)

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri May 26 11:32:43 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2023 15:32:43 +0000
Subject: The Backdrop's Purpose In Life
Message-ID: <SJ0PR02MB7533D49E33A7A061F57190A4B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>

HA! I just figured out what the purpose of the backdrop is! If you have multiple LC windows open and you tab to another app's window, then tab back to the LC window, ONLY that LC window will appear in the foreground. With Backdrop on, ALL the LC windows will become visible when you tab to any LC window.

All these years and I never knew that.

Bob S

From harrison at all-auctions.com  Fri May 26 12:26:55 2023
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2023 12:26:55 -0400
Subject: Android and USB footswitch
In-Reply-To: <BB7EAC76-B341-4546-A00F-2CDA76AC3277@major-k.de>
References: <22A14A13-AB6B-4163-A2F7-F884826DE407@major-k.de>
 <559C7AFE-B912-4E4F-A32B-2E257D7B44F8@pidigital.co.uk>
 <B4249729-D314-473E-9D25-98CCD9A7C4FC@all-auctions.com>
 <BB7EAC76-B341-4546-A00F-2CDA76AC3277@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <C719A9F1-6F92-4200-B5C2-E2B963F0470E@all-auctions.com>

Hi Klaus,

The mouse receiving device is a USB plug or dongle.
At the very worst you might have to find an adaptor.
It should work!

Rick

On May 26, 2023, at 3:23 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

Hi Rick,

Am 26.05.2023 um 03:32 schrieb harrison--- via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:

Hi Klaus,

A  quick and really dirty solution:

Find an old wireless or BlueTooth computer mouse that you really don’t like,
and use it as a foot switch.  That will be super easy for LiveCode to detect too!

thank you.

However I said I will need a USB device, since LC on Android (ANDROID!) does not 
support bluetooth/wireless.

Have fun!

Rick

On May 25, 2023, at 6:24 PM, Pi Digital via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
A usb footswitch will work like a mouse but with a different signature. 

Best

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de


_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri May 26 14:14:24 2023
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2023 11:14:24 -0700
Subject: The Backdrop's Purpose In Life
In-Reply-To: <SJ0PR02MB7533D49E33A7A061F57190A4B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533D49E33A7A061F57190A4B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <18413637-663f-4f3a-84a0-548d42c830d8@fourthworld.com>

Bob Sneidar wrote:

 > HA! I just figured out what the purpose of the backdrop is!
 > If you have multiple LC windows open and you tab to another
 > app's window, then tab back to the LC window, ONLY that LC
 > window will appear in the foreground. With Backdrop on, ALL
 > the LC windows will become visible when you tab to any LC
 > window.

The OS vendors help with that too:

Windows: Shift-click Taskbar icon -> "Bring All Windows Forward"

macOS:   Window menu -> Bring All to Front

-- 
Richard Gaskin
Fourth World Systems


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri May 26 14:20:52 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2023 18:20:52 +0000
Subject: The Backdrop's Purpose In Life
In-Reply-To: <18413637-663f-4f3a-84a0-548d42c830d8@fourthworld.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533D49E33A7A061F57190A4B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <18413637-663f-4f3a-84a0-548d42c830d8@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <SJ0PR02MB7533F5A841C14AB975996B79B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>

Huh. Windows not working for me. I'll try MacOS when I get my laptop up and running again. MacOS Update bricked the boot volume. Again. For the 3rd time. 

Bob S 

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> On Behalf Of Richard Gaskin via use-livecode
Sent: Friday, May 26, 2023 11:14 AM
To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Cc: Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
Subject: Re: The Backdrop's Purpose In Life

Bob Sneidar wrote:

 > HA! I just figured out what the purpose of the backdrop is!
 > If you have multiple LC windows open and you tab to another  > app's window, then tab back to the LC window, ONLY that LC  > window will appear in the foreground. With Backdrop on, ALL  > the LC windows will become visible when you tab to any LC  > window.

The OS vendors help with that too:

Windows: Shift-click Taskbar icon -> "Bring All Windows Forward"

macOS:   Window menu -> Bring All to Front

--
Richard Gaskin
Fourth World Systems

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri May 26 15:21:53 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2023 14:21:53 -0500
Subject: The Backdrop's Purpose In Life
In-Reply-To: <18413637-663f-4f3a-84a0-548d42c830d8@fourthworld.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533D49E33A7A061F57190A4B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <18413637-663f-4f3a-84a0-548d42c830d8@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <7ba419f3-2469-ad83-f27b-96474bdb5073@hyperactivesw.com>

On 5/26/23 1:14 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
> Bob Sneidar wrote:
> 
>  > HA! I just figured out what the purpose of the backdrop is!
>  > If you have multiple LC windows open and you tab to another
>  > app's window, then tab back to the LC window, ONLY that LC
>  > window will appear in the foreground. With Backdrop on, ALL
>  > the LC windows will become visible when you tab to any LC
>  > window.
> 
> The OS vendors help with that too:
> 
> Windows: Shift-click Taskbar icon -> "Bring All Windows Forward"
> 
> macOS:   Window menu -> Bring All to Front
> 

Clicking the icon in the Mac Dock also brings all windows forward.
-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From merakosp at gmail.com  Fri May 26 23:58:39 2023
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis m)
Date: Sat, 27 May 2023 06:58:39 +0300
Subject: The Backdrop's Purpose In Life
In-Reply-To: <7ba419f3-2469-ad83-f27b-96474bdb5073@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533D49E33A7A061F57190A4B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <18413637-663f-4f3a-84a0-548d42c830d8@fourthworld.com>
 <7ba419f3-2469-ad83-f27b-96474bdb5073@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq92=W=17cPZMJ9R9in0bnm6Mm+26H+r+YbFf6A6xBHxPg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all,

Note that the LC backdrop does not work on MacOS Ventura.

Cheers,
Panos

On Fri, 26 May 2023, 22:23 J. Landman Gay via use-livecode, <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On 5/26/23 1:14 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
> > Bob Sneidar wrote:
> >
> >  > HA! I just figured out what the purpose of the backdrop is!
> >  > If you have multiple LC windows open and you tab to another
> >  > app's window, then tab back to the LC window, ONLY that LC
> >  > window will appear in the foreground. With Backdrop on, ALL
> >  > the LC windows will become visible when you tab to any LC
> >  > window.
> >
> > The OS vendors help with that too:
> >
> > Windows: Shift-click Taskbar icon -> "Bring All Windows Forward"
> >
> > macOS:   Window menu -> Bring All to Front
> >
>
> Clicking the icon in the Mac Dock also brings all windows forward.
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat May 27 01:34:15 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 27 May 2023 00:34:15 -0500
Subject: The Backdrop's Purpose In Life
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq92=W=17cPZMJ9R9in0bnm6Mm+26H+r+YbFf6A6xBHxPg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533D49E33A7A061F57190A4B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <18413637-663f-4f3a-84a0-548d42c830d8@fourthworld.com>
 <7ba419f3-2469-ad83-f27b-96474bdb5073@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CA+JfEq92=W=17cPZMJ9R9in0bnm6Mm+26H+r+YbFf6A6xBHxPg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1885bb343d8.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

Will this be fixed?
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 26, 2023 11:01:09 PM panagiotis m via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> Note that the LC backdrop does not work on MacOS Ventura.
>
> Cheers,
> Panos





From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sat May 27 11:04:18 2023
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond)
Date: Sat, 27 May 2023 18:04:18 +0300
Subject: The Backdrop's Purpose In Life
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq92=W=17cPZMJ9R9in0bnm6Mm+26H+r+YbFf6A6xBHxPg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533D49E33A7A061F57190A4B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <18413637-663f-4f3a-84a0-548d42c830d8@fourthworld.com>
 <7ba419f3-2469-ad83-f27b-96474bdb5073@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CA+JfEq92=W=17cPZMJ9R9in0bnm6Mm+26H+r+YbFf6A6xBHxPg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <89d943b0-619b-d97e-3ad2-82dd00a54975@gmail.com>

Note that the LC backdrop with LC 9.6.3 community works just fine with 
MacOS Ventura.

Kisses, Richmond.

On 27.05.23 6:58, panagiotis m via use-livecode wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> Note that the LC backdrop does not work on MacOS Ventura.
>
> Cheers,
> Panos
>
> On Fri, 26 May 2023, 22:23 J. Landman Gay via use-livecode, <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> On 5/26/23 1:14 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Bob Sneidar wrote:
>>>
>>>   > HA! I just figured out what the purpose of the backdrop is!
>>>   > If you have multiple LC windows open and you tab to another
>>>   > app's window, then tab back to the LC window, ONLY that LC
>>>   > window will appear in the foreground. With Backdrop on, ALL
>>>   > the LC windows will become visible when you tab to any LC
>>>   > window.
>>>
>>> The OS vendors help with that too:
>>>
>>> Windows: Shift-click Taskbar icon -> "Bring All Windows Forward"
>>>
>>> macOS:   Window menu -> Bring All to Front
>>>
>> Clicking the icon in the Mac Dock also brings all windows forward.
>> --
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From skiplondon at gmail.com  Sat May 27 12:26:30 2023
From: skiplondon at gmail.com (Skip Kimpel)
Date: Sat, 27 May 2023 12:26:30 -0400
Subject: AR applications?
Message-ID: <FD751FD1-87F0-47B4-8C11-F1CF9C1DD6F5@gmail.com>

Has anybody done anything with LC and AR?

Curious minds want to know :)

SKIP


From harrison at all-auctions.com  Sat May 27 16:38:30 2023
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com)
Date: Sat, 27 May 2023 16:38:30 -0400
Subject: AR applications?
In-Reply-To: <FD751FD1-87F0-47B4-8C11-F1CF9C1DD6F5@gmail.com>
References: <FD751FD1-87F0-47B4-8C11-F1CF9C1DD6F5@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DD09652B-C289-4AA2-981F-20F10F4AFB74@all-auctions.com>

Hi Skip,

Doubtful.  I would wait until after we have a compilable version of LC and then it will be more possible.

Rick

> On May 27, 2023, at 12:26 PM, Skip Kimpel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Has anybody done anything with LC and AR?
> 
> Curious minds want to know :)
> 
> SKIP


From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Sat May 27 16:43:28 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Sat, 27 May 2023 16:43:28 -0400
Subject: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor
In-Reply-To: <SJ0PR02MB7533DD6A1D7C4C47E02C4060B2469@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
References: <EC712A5C-4123-4301-87D6-5EECCA4F8D79@gmail.com>
 <eaed4b26-788e-ccbc-b133-fb6a68a7d889@fourthworld.com>
 <C875D04B-F61A-47F2-8820-D369FED78726@gmail.com>
 <CADCoycOGY4DryEkhQYWoEm1w=UrZ3GYXg-jE19EdVKP1VLSySA@mail.gmail.com>
 <A9063093-3C5B-4D23-AF7A-B643CF1F2490@gmail.com>
 <SJ0PR02MB7533DD6A1D7C4C47E02C4060B2469@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycPgD1AJJ9hiD28AT0CR52eG4uh1YmZu7ZH8gSbGEH7k9g@mail.gmail.com>

i just tried, again, with the v.4 model.
it is now literally inventing documentation (which it presents,
formatted similarly to the way the dictionary appears), claims that it
can be found in the dictionary, and provides links to examples (which,
of course, are broken), and proceeds to insist that it is correct,
even after being told to load the pages in question.

On Thu, May 25, 2023 at 11:06 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> I create datagrids with some properties that help me with database queries. For instance one property is the name of the table I source for the data. So I came up with the idea of popping up a menu when I right click on a datagrid, where I can select a column from the table, and then wherever I click next, it will create a field and label in a group, all named after the column wherever I click next. The fields I produce also have a property for the column name, so when I populate a form, I provide an array of the datagrid data to the handler which iterates through all the fields looking for that property, and fills the fields with data from that array.
>
> So while creating forms is tedious, it can be made a good deal less tedious by doing some coding on the front end.
>
> Bob S
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Hi Mike,
>
> Not that I’m aware of. Apart from Richard’s utility, the only other way I’ve seen used is dragging items from the tools palette. Not a terrible process as no-code is involved in doing so (so you don’t have frustrations with syntax to deal with), but as Jacque points out, if you have a lot of this to do, it can get tedious.
>
> Mark
>
> > On 23 May 2023, at 8:31 pm, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > didn't the old db library (which is still included with LC, and still
> > gets built into every standalone, whether you choose to include it or
> > not) have the ability to build forms from db's?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."


From harrison at all-auctions.com  Sat May 27 16:54:17 2023
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com)
Date: Sat, 27 May 2023 16:54:17 -0400
Subject: Run LC on old Mac with Ventura!
In-Reply-To: <89d943b0-619b-d97e-3ad2-82dd00a54975@gmail.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533D49E33A7A061F57190A4B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <18413637-663f-4f3a-84a0-548d42c830d8@fourthworld.com>
 <7ba419f3-2469-ad83-f27b-96474bdb5073@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CA+JfEq92=W=17cPZMJ9R9in0bnm6Mm+26H+r+YbFf6A6xBHxPg@mail.gmail.com>
 <89d943b0-619b-d97e-3ad2-82dd00a54975@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <18230729-713C-4F53-9A32-E7D387B0556F@all-auctions.com>

Hi LC Mac users,

Last week I came across the following:

https://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/64141/opencore-legacy-patcher

I was very skeptical at first, so I took out my old 15 inch 2012 MacBook Pro
that I was thinking about recycling, and I tried it.  It works like a new machine
running Ventura!  It’s fast enough too! 

After I saw how good it works, all I could think of was how terrible 
it is that Apple has sidelined all of these old computers, that are 
perfectly capable.  

It behaves well with LC too!

Check it out and let me know what you think.  

Cheers,

Rick

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat May 27 17:45:55 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 27 May 2023 16:45:55 -0500
Subject: The Backdrop's Purpose In Life
In-Reply-To: <89d943b0-619b-d97e-3ad2-82dd00a54975@gmail.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533D49E33A7A061F57190A4B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <18413637-663f-4f3a-84a0-548d42c830d8@fourthworld.com>
 <7ba419f3-2469-ad83-f27b-96474bdb5073@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CA+JfEq92=W=17cPZMJ9R9in0bnm6Mm+26H+r+YbFf6A6xBHxPg@mail.gmail.com>
 <89d943b0-619b-d97e-3ad2-82dd00a54975@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1885f2cd650.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

Did you try Cmd-tab to cycle to another app and back? Does it also work if 
you bring another app to the front and then use the dock to return to LC? 
If so that would be good news.

I did find a backdrop glitch in a standalone on Monterey. Only one window 
showed where there should have been two.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 27, 2023 10:06:43 AM Richmond via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Note that the LC backdrop with LC 9.6.3 community works just fine with
> MacOS Ventura.
>
> Kisses, Richmond.
>
> On 27.05.23 6:58, panagiotis m via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hello all,
>>
>> Note that the LC backdrop does not work on MacOS Ventura.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Panos
>>
>> On Fri, 26 May 2023, 22:23 J. Landman Gay via use-livecode, <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/26/23 1:14 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> Bob Sneidar wrote:
>>>>
>>>>   > HA! I just figured out what the purpose of the backdrop is!
>>>>   > If you have multiple LC windows open and you tab to another
>>>>   > app's window, then tab back to the LC window, ONLY that LC
>>>>   > window will appear in the foreground. With Backdrop on, ALL
>>>>   > the LC windows will become visible when you tab to any LC
>>>>   > window.
>>>>
>>>> The OS vendors help with that too:
>>>>
>>>> Windows: Shift-click Taskbar icon -> "Bring All Windows Forward"
>>>>
>>>> macOS:   Window menu -> Bring All to Front
>>>>
>>> Clicking the icon in the Mac Dock also brings all windows forward.
>>> --
>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From curry at pair.com  Sun May 28 00:54:38 2023
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 00:54:38 -0400
Subject: WordReport 1.3 - Order Download Link fixed
Message-ID: <42b7349b-d801-d384-3813-6e6b797a5b8a@pair.com>


WordReport's after-order Download Link fixed in CurryK/SendOwl store.

(And an unrelated WordReport delivery issue fixed by LC in their store.)

Thanks Fernando Riccio and Heather!

Anyone previously affected, please use the Download on the page below.

More news soon....

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

WordReport: Professional pre-formatted reports
for MS Word and OpenOffice files in LiveCode!
http://livecodeaddons.com/wordreport.html

Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
"Passion for Elegant and Efficient Code"
http://livecodeconsulting.com/


From skiplondon at gmail.com  Sun May 28 10:54:13 2023
From: skiplondon at gmail.com (Skip Kimpel)
Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 10:54:13 -0400
Subject: AR applications?
In-Reply-To: <DD09652B-C289-4AA2-981F-20F10F4AFB74@all-auctions.com>
References: <DD09652B-C289-4AA2-981F-20F10F4AFB74@all-auctions.com>
Message-ID: <E82417D5-2F6A-410D-ADC9-7C7D7B9FD437@gmail.com>

Wait… what?  I have been away from this list for a while, LC is not currently compilable??

SKIP

> On May 27, 2023, at 4:39 PM, harrison--- via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Skip,
> 
> Doubtful.  I would wait until after we have a compilable version of LC and then it will be more possible.
> 
> Rick
> 
>> On May 27, 2023, at 12:26 PM, Skip Kimpel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Has anybody done anything with LC and AR?
>> 
>> Curious minds want to know :)
>> 
>> SKIP
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Sun May 28 20:18:16 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 20:18:16 -0400
Subject: android remote debugger
Message-ID: <CADCoycMvAkkp1zmBz1aT8aoTLpMCY31vowp5Y8OY7Yf8Vd2j6A@mail.gmail.com>

i'm back to futzing with android, again, now trying to get the remote
debugger to run.
it's included with the stack, but i can't seem to get it to fire, even
with the breakpoint command.

-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun May 28 23:45:59 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 22:45:59 -0500
Subject: android remote debugger
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycMvAkkp1zmBz1aT8aoTLpMCY31vowp5Y8OY7Yf8Vd2j6A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADCoycMvAkkp1zmBz1aT8aoTLpMCY31vowp5Y8OY7Yf8Vd2j6A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <188659cdcd8.2804.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

That's happened to me twice over the years and nothing I could do fixed it 
until a new LC version was released, where suddenly it started working 
again. I don't think it's LC, it is something in the OS. I tried fiddling 
with system prefs permissions but it didn't help. The two instances were 
years apart and I still don't know why.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 28, 2023 7:21:05 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> i'm back to futzing with android, again, now trying to get the remote
> debugger to run.
> it's included with the stack, but i can't seem to get it to fire, even
> with the breakpoint command.
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>   and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Mon May 29 06:26:19 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 11:26:19 +0100
Subject: LC compilation
In-Reply-To: <E82417D5-2F6A-410D-ADC9-7C7D7B9FD437@gmail.com>
References: <DD09652B-C289-4AA2-981F-20F10F4AFB74@all-auctions.com>
 <E82417D5-2F6A-410D-ADC9-7C7D7B9FD437@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DAB41BF0-0E01-42DD-A358-A9317E0340C2@gmail.com>

Hi Skip,

I’m surprised no one has taken a stab at answering this. I'm certainly no expert on the internal workings of LC or compilers but I can take a stab at articulating what I think the answer is, and when I get it wrong someone else can jump in to correct me (I should probably know this stuff better anyway).

So if I am correct, the current environment converts LC script into some sort of (possibly binary) tree structure that is better organised to be executed by the LC engine. The engine is a big chunk of what I think is mostly Obj C (or some relative thereof) code that interprets the tree structures created in the first phase. So I guess that makes it sort of compiled? Compiled to execute in/on the LC engine, but also interpreted because the tree code is not executed on the target platform directly but is interpreted by the engine to generate the final executable result. 

As far as the script compiler project is concerned, I believe the goal is to create a byte code stream that can be interpreted more efficiently by (a possibly new?) engine. Not sure about the new engine part, but the idea is the tree structure thing goes away and in its place is a linear stream of byte codes that can both be executed more effiencetly but also optimised more fully. This particular byte stream (and here I’m going way outside my wheelhouse) is similar to what other compilers like Java, Python, (Pascal? — which I do know was a byte code compiled run time interpreted language… although companies like Borland eventually wrote Pascal compilers that executed directly on the target platform without any interpretation) produce. So, it would bring the LC compiled code more in line with what other compilers are producing which means post compilation the code could be optimised more completely using well developed industry standard approaches. And so everything ends up a little smaller and faster but it also opens the door to doing other things with the script code down the road. 

Well, that's my take on Mark Waddinghams’ most recent seminar on this topic. But he assuredly can fill you in much better than I can.

Cheers,
Mark



> On 28 May 2023, at 3:54 pm, Skip Kimpel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Wait… what?  I have been away from this list for a while, LC is not currently compilable??
> 
> SKIP
> 
>> On May 27, 2023, at 4:39 PM, harrison--- via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Skip,
>> 
>> Doubtful.  I would wait until after we have a compilable version of LC and then it will be more possible.
>> 
>> Rick
>> 
>>> On May 27, 2023, at 12:26 PM, Skip Kimpel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Has anybody done anything with LC and AR?
>>> 
>>> Curious minds want to know :)
>>> 
>>> SKIP
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From harrison at all-auctions.com  Mon May 29 09:28:04 2023
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 09:28:04 -0400
Subject: OpenCore Legacy Patcher for LC
In-Reply-To: <18230729-713C-4F53-9A32-E7D387B0556F@all-auctions.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533D49E33A7A061F57190A4B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <18413637-663f-4f3a-84a0-548d42c830d8@fourthworld.com>
 <7ba419f3-2469-ad83-f27b-96474bdb5073@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CA+JfEq92=W=17cPZMJ9R9in0bnm6Mm+26H+r+YbFf6A6xBHxPg@mail.gmail.com>
 <89d943b0-619b-d97e-3ad2-82dd00a54975@gmail.com>
 <18230729-713C-4F53-9A32-E7D387B0556F@all-auctions.com>
Message-ID: <BE35F18E-D23F-4E14-AEF9-20ED7755A412@all-auctions.com>

Is there anyone on this list that has tried
OpenCore Legacy Patcher to run LiveCode
on their old mac?

Let me know.

Thanks,

Rick

> On May 27, 2023, at 4:54 PM, harrison--- via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi LC Mac users,
> 
> Last week I came across the following:
> 
> https://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/64141/opencore-legacy-patcher
> 
> I was very skeptical at first, so I took out my old 15 inch 2012 MacBook Pro
> that I was thinking about recycling, and I tried it.  It works like a new machine
> running Ventura!  It’s fast enough too! 
> 
> After I saw how good it works, all I could think of was how terrible 
> it is that Apple has sidelined all of these old computers, that are 
> perfectly capable.  
> 
> It behaves well with LC too!
> 
> Check it out and let me know what you think.  
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Rick
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon May 29 11:17:43 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 10:17:43 -0500
Subject: OpenCore Legacy Patcher for LC
In-Reply-To: <BE35F18E-D23F-4E14-AEF9-20ED7755A412@all-auctions.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533D49E33A7A061F57190A4B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <18413637-663f-4f3a-84a0-548d42c830d8@fourthworld.com>
 <7ba419f3-2469-ad83-f27b-96474bdb5073@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CA+JfEq92=W=17cPZMJ9R9in0bnm6Mm+26H+r+YbFf6A6xBHxPg@mail.gmail.com>
 <89d943b0-619b-d97e-3ad2-82dd00a54975@gmail.com>
 <18230729-713C-4F53-9A32-E7D387B0556F@all-auctions.com>
 <BE35F18E-D23F-4E14-AEF9-20ED7755A412@all-auctions.com>
Message-ID: <188681629d8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

It's on my to-do list but I haven't got to it yet. Is there a problem with LC?

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 29, 2023 8:30:00 AM harrison--- via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Is there anyone on this list that has tried
> OpenCore Legacy Patcher to run LiveCode
> on their old mac?
>
> Let me know.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Rick
>
>> On May 27, 2023, at 4:54 PM, harrison--- via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi LC Mac users,
>>
>> Last week I came across the following:
>>
>> https://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/64141/opencore-legacy-patcher
>>
>> I was very skeptical at first, so I took out my old 15 inch 2012 MacBook Pro
>> that I was thinking about recycling, and I tried it.  It works like a new 
>> machine
>> running Ventura!  Its fast enough too!
>>
>> After I saw how good it works, all I could think of was how terrible
>> it is that Apple has sidelined all of these old computers, that are
>> perfectly capable.
>>
>> It behaves well with LC too!
>>
>> Check it out and let me know what you think.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Rick
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Mon May 29 12:56:19 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 12:56:19 -0400
Subject: LC compilation
In-Reply-To: <DAB41BF0-0E01-42DD-A358-A9317E0340C2@gmail.com>
References: <DD09652B-C289-4AA2-981F-20F10F4AFB74@all-auctions.com>
 <E82417D5-2F6A-410D-ADC9-7C7D7B9FD437@gmail.com>
 <DAB41BF0-0E01-42DD-A358-A9317E0340C2@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycMLqGLytgu_Eciu6U_tQHmYpmYiLvNbZxORrT6DJsHcfw@mail.gmail.com>

I don't see the original post, so I can only part-comment on this.
LC doesn't compile, per se. It builds standalone apps for all
platforms, but those apps include the LC engine, extensions,
libraries, and your stack(s). There is an obfuscator, but, no, no
bytecode or ML, yet. The apps behave as you would expect a standalone
app to behave, but, with a disassembler, you will have an easier time
with them than you would with a ML or BC compiled app.
The good news is that the current architecture makes remote debugging
from mobes much simpler, and, whether you are on a desktop or mobile
platform, you can include functionality such as side-loading and
real-time code execution trivially.
For example, let's say you have a debug build. If you include a button
in your debug build, with the following script, you can prompt for a
command, and execute it, live, in your standalone:

on mouseUp
   global gDo
   ask "Do what?" with gDo
   if it is not empty then
      put it into gDo
      do gDo
   end if
end mouseUp

The above script will also, as I am sure you deduced, store the last
command you typed, and prompt you with it, the next time you press the
button.
This is, of course, especially useful if you want to invoke the
debugger and then debug some routine. You can do that like by clicking
the button I just described, and then typing into the dialog:
breakpoint;send "mouseUp" to button "someButton" # steps you through
the debug button script, then to the mouseUp handler of "someButton"

We are all patiently waiting for the script compiler, which, as of
last conversation with Mark W., is going to be a bytecode compiler,
not a ML compiler.

On Mon, May 29, 2023 at 6:27 AM Mark Smith via use-livecode
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Skip,
>
> I’m surprised no one has taken a stab at answering this. I'm certainly no expert on the internal workings of LC or compilers but I can take a stab at articulating what I think the answer is, and when I get it wrong someone else can jump in to correct me (I should probably know this stuff better anyway).
>
> So if I am correct, the current environment converts LC script into some sort of (possibly binary) tree structure that is better organised to be executed by the LC engine. The engine is a big chunk of what I think is mostly Obj C (or some relative thereof) code that interprets the tree structures created in the first phase. So I guess that makes it sort of compiled? Compiled to execute in/on the LC engine, but also interpreted because the tree code is not executed on the target platform directly but is interpreted by the engine to generate the final executable result.
>
> As far as the script compiler project is concerned, I believe the goal is to create a byte code stream that can be interpreted more efficiently by (a possibly new?) engine. Not sure about the new engine part, but the idea is the tree structure thing goes away and in its place is a linear stream of byte codes that can both be executed more effiencetly but also optimised more fully. This particular byte stream (and here I’m going way outside my wheelhouse) is similar to what other compilers like Java, Python, (Pascal? — which I do know was a byte code compiled run time interpreted language… although companies like Borland eventually wrote Pascal compilers that executed directly on the target platform without any interpretation) produce. So, it would bring the LC compiled code more in line with what other compilers are producing which means post compilation the code could be optimised more completely using well developed industry standard approaches. And so everything ends up a little smaller and faster but it also opens the door to doing other things with the script code down the road.
>
> Well, that's my take on Mark Waddinghams’ most recent seminar on this topic. But he assuredly can fill you in much better than I can.
>
> Cheers,
> Mark
>
>
>
> > On 28 May 2023, at 3:54 pm, Skip Kimpel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Wait… what?  I have been away from this list for a while, LC is not currently compilable??
> >
> > SKIP
> >
> >> On May 27, 2023, at 4:39 PM, harrison--- via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Skip,
> >>
> >> Doubtful.  I would wait until after we have a compilable version of LC and then it will be more possible.
> >>
> >> Rick
> >>
> >>> On May 27, 2023, at 12:26 PM, Skip Kimpel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Has anybody done anything with LC and AR?
> >>>
> >>> Curious minds want to know :)
> >>>
> >>> SKIP
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."


From dochawk at gmail.com  Mon May 29 13:11:00 2023
From: dochawk at gmail.com (doc hawk)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 10:11:00 -0700
Subject: Run LC on old Mac with Ventura!
In-Reply-To: <18230729-713C-4F53-9A32-E7D387B0556F@all-auctions.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533D49E33A7A061F57190A4B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <18413637-663f-4f3a-84a0-548d42c830d8@fourthworld.com>
 <7ba419f3-2469-ad83-f27b-96474bdb5073@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CA+JfEq92=W=17cPZMJ9R9in0bnm6Mm+26H+r+YbFf6A6xBHxPg@mail.gmail.com>
 <89d943b0-619b-d97e-3ad2-82dd00a54975@gmail.com>
 <18230729-713C-4F53-9A32-E7D387B0556F@all-auctions.com>
Message-ID: <799CF823-AA84-4E23-9499-55D4522DD36C@gmail.com>

If memory serves, the problem with older machines was not running the metal graphical system, as they lacked the hardware.

There were some near-contemporaneous patches that allowed at least the first post-mohave osx to run, put were reported as glacially and painfully slow as metal got emulated on older hardware.

This says that the patch allows supporter non-metal graphical cards, though—I’m curious how that would work on apple stuff that calls to metal.

But, alas, the 2012 iMac isn’t the list, so I guess I’m out of luck anyway.



From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Mon May 29 19:25:21 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 00:25:21 +0100
Subject: LC compilation
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycMLqGLytgu_Eciu6U_tQHmYpmYiLvNbZxORrT6DJsHcfw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <DD09652B-C289-4AA2-981F-20F10F4AFB74@all-auctions.com>
 <E82417D5-2F6A-410D-ADC9-7C7D7B9FD437@gmail.com>
 <DAB41BF0-0E01-42DD-A358-A9317E0340C2@gmail.com>
 <CADCoycMLqGLytgu_Eciu6U_tQHmYpmYiLvNbZxORrT6DJsHcfw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3A325FB2-71B9-4EC7-8BB5-C04F11BFBB8D@gmail.com>

Hi Mike, sorry I thought it would have been copied with the reply. The original post from Skip Kimpel was more or less asking if LC is compiled. The exact post was…

	"Wait… what?  I have been away from this list for a while, LC is not currently compilable??

	SKIP”

I do have a question based on your reply. You indicate LC doesn’t compile but then go on to list all of the stuff it compiles into a standalone application (most of which, such as the LC engine, extensions, libraries, etc) are just (I would argue) libraries when it builds an application. Taking the definition of compiler as “a process to convert (a program) into a machine-code <https://www.google.co.uk/search?client=safari&channel=mac_bm&q=machine-code&si=AMnBZoFOMBUphduq9VwZxsuReC7YV6BL3UJP9cGsG2J_mNMPwgWXqX8HuVPC8gyFB81-plMkPkEzmbteRge93xxj5qVwJdYjXSPc2zeY_vz8RKYr_9tAP6Q%3D&expnd=1> or a lower-level <https://www.google.co.uk/search?client=safari&channel=mac_bm&q=lower-level&si=AMnBZoG9fGMZkoPgk-g4eVoaZFdERA6BgFgTvewAwu3qykvLOcqyjsbvyNVL0k7ItNaeg3uetPXhm4wenDJM9iNdxIwXbgNT_MfjGFunU2ur_NpUowaHa-E%3D&expnd=1> form in which the program can be executed.” I would argue it “sort of” does that in that the included scripts (as I understand it) are not in their original editable form but have been converted into something that is more easily interpreted by the engine. I know it’s not ML, nor is it bytecode, but it’s one step removed from the actually editable text in the script editor. Would’t you agree?

The true advantage of the byte code, I believe, is that it brings LC in line with other similar compilers and therefore allows a more sophisticated (and standardised) approach to code optimisation. Or at least that will be one of the advantages. Obfuscation of code, as you mention, is another (although I have never personally worried about anyone wanting to steal my code 😊). 

Mark


> On 29 May 2023, at 5:56 pm, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I don't see the original post, so I can only part-comment on this.
> LC doesn't compile, per se. It builds standalone apps for all
> platforms, but those apps include the LC engine, extensions,
> libraries, and your stack(s). There is an obfuscator, but, no, no
> bytecode or ML, yet. The apps behave as you would expect a standalone
> app to behave, but, with a disassembler, you will have an easier time
> with them than you would with a ML or BC compiled app.
> The good news is that the current architecture makes remote debugging
> from mobes much simpler, and, whether you are on a desktop or mobile
> platform, you can include functionality such as side-loading and
> real-time code execution trivially.
> For example, let's say you have a debug build. If you include a button
> in your debug build, with the following script, you can prompt for a
> command, and execute it, live, in your standalone:
> 
> on mouseUp
>   global gDo
>   ask "Do what?" with gDo
>   if it is not empty then
>      put it into gDo
>      do gDo
>   end if
> end mouseUp
> 
> The above script will also, as I am sure you deduced, store the last
> command you typed, and prompt you with it, the next time you press the
> button.
> This is, of course, especially useful if you want to invoke the
> debugger and then debug some routine. You can do that like by clicking
> the button I just described, and then typing into the dialog:
> breakpoint;send "mouseUp" to button "someButton" # steps you through
> the debug button script, then to the mouseUp handler of "someButton"
> 
> We are all patiently waiting for the script compiler, which, as of
> last conversation with Mark W., is going to be a bytecode compiler,
> not a ML compiler.
> 
> On Mon, May 29, 2023 at 6:27 AM Mark Smith via use-livecode
> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Skip,
>> 
>> I’m surprised no one has taken a stab at answering this. I'm certainly no expert on the internal workings of LC or compilers but I can take a stab at articulating what I think the answer is, and when I get it wrong someone else can jump in to correct me (I should probably know this stuff better anyway).
>> 
>> So if I am correct, the current environment converts LC script into some sort of (possibly binary) tree structure that is better organised to be executed by the LC engine. The engine is a big chunk of what I think is mostly Obj C (or some relative thereof) code that interprets the tree structures created in the first phase. So I guess that makes it sort of compiled? Compiled to execute in/on the LC engine, but also interpreted because the tree code is not executed on the target platform directly but is interpreted by the engine to generate the final executable result.
>> 
>> As far as the script compiler project is concerned, I believe the goal is to create a byte code stream that can be interpreted more efficiently by (a possibly new?) engine. Not sure about the new engine part, but the idea is the tree structure thing goes away and in its place is a linear stream of byte codes that can both be executed more effiencetly but also optimised more fully. This particular byte stream (and here I’m going way outside my wheelhouse) is similar to what other compilers like Java, Python, (Pascal? — which I do know was a byte code compiled run time interpreted language… although companies like Borland eventually wrote Pascal compilers that executed directly on the target platform without any interpretation) produce. So, it would bring the LC compiled code more in line with what other compilers are producing which means post compilation the code could be optimised more completely using well developed industry standard approaches. And so everything ends up a little smaller and faster but it also opens the door to doing other things with the script code down the road.
>> 
>> Well, that's my take on Mark Waddinghams’ most recent seminar on this topic. But he assuredly can fill you in much better than I can.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Mark
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 28 May 2023, at 3:54 pm, Skip Kimpel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Wait… what?  I have been away from this list for a while, LC is not currently compilable??
>>> 
>>> SKIP
>>> 
>>>> On May 27, 2023, at 4:39 PM, harrison--- via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Skip,
>>>> 
>>>> Doubtful.  I would wait until after we have a compilable version of LC and then it will be more possible.
>>>> 
>>>> Rick
>>>> 
>>>>> On May 27, 2023, at 12:26 PM, Skip Kimpel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Has anybody done anything with LC and AR?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Curious minds want to know :)
>>>>> 
>>>>> SKIP
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>   and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From harrison at all-auctions.com  Mon May 29 19:49:51 2023
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 19:49:51 -0400
Subject: OpenCore Legacy Patcher for LC
In-Reply-To: <188681629d8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533D49E33A7A061F57190A4B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <18413637-663f-4f3a-84a0-548d42c830d8@fourthworld.com>
 <7ba419f3-2469-ad83-f27b-96474bdb5073@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CA+JfEq92=W=17cPZMJ9R9in0bnm6Mm+26H+r+YbFf6A6xBHxPg@mail.gmail.com>
 <89d943b0-619b-d97e-3ad2-82dd00a54975@gmail.com>
 <18230729-713C-4F53-9A32-E7D387B0556F@all-auctions.com>
 <BE35F18E-D23F-4E14-AEF9-20ED7755A412@all-auctions.com>
 <188681629d8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <562381EB-47AC-437C-B04D-8C6C13EC9C59@all-auctions.com>

No problems with LC that I have found so far.

> On May 29, 2023, at 11:17 AM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> It's on my to-do list but I haven't got to it yet. Is there a problem with LC?


From selander at tkf.att.ne.jp  Mon May 29 20:32:58 2023
From: selander at tkf.att.ne.jp (Tim Selander)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 09:32:58 +0900
Subject: LC Server and forcing page refreshes
Message-ID: <5fe3bd1d-45b8-16ed-b820-1b0640a401b0@tkf.att.ne.jp>

Once again find myself over my head in just a simple programming project.

I made a little club members directory website, using LC server on 
on-rev's hosting site.

Members can edit their info. I use a form, with the action going to an 
LC script. This script gets all the post data, shuffles it off to the 
database, and then goes back to the member's page using a re-direct:

  <meta http-equiv = "refresh" content = "2; url = <?lc put vlink?>" />

where vlink has the member's URL.

My Problem: If folk update their photos, their browser cache still shows 
the old picture -- logically leading them to think the update failed.

The photos are simply stored on the server, the database only stores the 
path of the file. The photo file shown on the member's page with an 
image tag.

Can any of the gurus here tell me how to get the page to ignore the 
cache so the browser shows the new photo?

Many thanks.

Tim Selander
Tokyo, Japan



From harrison at all-auctions.com  Mon May 29 22:42:15 2023
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 22:42:15 -0400
Subject: OpenCore Legacy Patcher Supports 2012 iMac!
In-Reply-To: <799CF823-AA84-4E23-9499-55D4522DD36C@gmail.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533D49E33A7A061F57190A4B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <18413637-663f-4f3a-84a0-548d42c830d8@fourthworld.com>
 <7ba419f3-2469-ad83-f27b-96474bdb5073@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CA+JfEq92=W=17cPZMJ9R9in0bnm6Mm+26H+r+YbFf6A6xBHxPg@mail.gmail.com>
 <89d943b0-619b-d97e-3ad2-82dd00a54975@gmail.com>
 <18230729-713C-4F53-9A32-E7D387B0556F@all-auctions.com>
 <799CF823-AA84-4E23-9499-55D4522DD36C@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2E6FBA11-8D4E-4324-832A-E548204929C7@all-auctions.com>

https://dortania.github.io/OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher/MODELS.html#imac

You are very lucky!  You must have looked at an old post.

Have fun!

Rick

> On May 29, 2023, at 1:11 PM, doc hawk via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> If memory serves, the problem with older machines was not running the metal graphical system, as they lacked the hardware.
> 
> There were some near-contemporaneous patches that allowed at least the first post-mohave osx to run, put were reported as glacially and painfully slow as metal got emulated on older hardware.
> 
> This says that the patch allows supporter non-metal graphical cards, though—I’m curious how that would work on apple stuff that calls to metal.
> 
> But, alas, the 2012 iMac isn’t the list, so I guess I’m out of luck anyway.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From hlowe at me.com  Mon May 29 22:59:34 2023
From: hlowe at me.com (HENRY LOWE)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 19:59:34 -0700
Subject: OpenCore Legacy Patcher Supports 2012 iMac!
In-Reply-To: <2E6FBA11-8D4E-4324-832A-E548204929C7@all-auctions.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533D49E33A7A061F57190A4B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <18413637-663f-4f3a-84a0-548d42c830d8@fourthworld.com>
 <7ba419f3-2469-ad83-f27b-96474bdb5073@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CA+JfEq92=W=17cPZMJ9R9in0bnm6Mm+26H+r+YbFf6A6xBHxPg@mail.gmail.com>
 <89d943b0-619b-d97e-3ad2-82dd00a54975@gmail.com>
 <18230729-713C-4F53-9A32-E7D387B0556F@all-auctions.com>
 <799CF823-AA84-4E23-9499-55D4522DD36C@gmail.com>
 <2E6FBA11-8D4E-4324-832A-E548204929C7@all-auctions.com>
Message-ID: <DFBE31D9-ECDE-4D3A-871D-F355130104DC@me.com>

Mac OS Ventura runs just fine on my 2012 iMac courtesy of OpenCore Legacy Patcher. I don’t run LC on this machine - use a 2019 iMac for that.

Henry 

> On May 29, 2023, at 7:42 PM, harrison--- via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> https://dortania.github.io/OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher/MODELS.html#imac
> 
> You are very lucky!  You must have looked at an old post.
> 
> Have fun!
> 
> Rick
> 
>> On May 29, 2023, at 1:11 PM, doc hawk via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> If memory serves, the problem with older machines was not running the metal graphical system, as they lacked the hardware.
>> 
>> There were some near-contemporaneous patches that allowed at least the first post-mohave osx to run, put were reported as glacially and painfully slow as metal got emulated on older hardware.
>> 
>> This says that the patch allows supporter non-metal graphical cards, though—I’m curious how that would work on apple stuff that calls to metal.
>> 
>> But, alas, the 2012 iMac isn’t the list, so I guess I’m out of luck anyway.
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From harrison at all-auctions.com  Mon May 29 23:11:31 2023
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 23:11:31 -0400
Subject: OpenCore Legacy Patcher Supports 2012 iMac!
In-Reply-To: <DFBE31D9-ECDE-4D3A-871D-F355130104DC@me.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533D49E33A7A061F57190A4B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <18413637-663f-4f3a-84a0-548d42c830d8@fourthworld.com>
 <7ba419f3-2469-ad83-f27b-96474bdb5073@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CA+JfEq92=W=17cPZMJ9R9in0bnm6Mm+26H+r+YbFf6A6xBHxPg@mail.gmail.com>
 <89d943b0-619b-d97e-3ad2-82dd00a54975@gmail.com>
 <18230729-713C-4F53-9A32-E7D387B0556F@all-auctions.com>
 <799CF823-AA84-4E23-9499-55D4522DD36C@gmail.com>
 <2E6FBA11-8D4E-4324-832A-E548204929C7@all-auctions.com>
 <DFBE31D9-ECDE-4D3A-871D-F355130104DC@me.com>
Message-ID: <AA0D1966-67AE-4C15-B388-795EEF1A4B50@all-auctions.com>

Thanks Henry, for confirming that Ventura runs on your 2012 iMac with OpenCore Legacy Patcher.

Rick

> On May 29, 2023, at 10:59 PM, HENRY LOWE via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Mac OS Ventura runs just fine on my 2012 iMac courtesy of OpenCore Legacy Patcher. I don’t run LC on this machine - use a 2019 iMac for that.
> 
> Henry 


From rabit at revigniter.com  Tue May 30 04:09:04 2023
From: rabit at revigniter.com (Ralf Bitter)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 10:09:04 +0200
Subject: LC Server and forcing page refreshes
In-Reply-To: <5fe3bd1d-45b8-16ed-b820-1b0640a401b0@tkf.att.ne.jp>
References: <5fe3bd1d-45b8-16ed-b820-1b0640a401b0@tkf.att.ne.jp>
Message-ID: <23c26f30-9c7a-d7f4-f99e-4b51aa58280b@revigniter.com>

Hi Tim,

how about adding a query string in the form of a timestamp to the 
members URL like:

?foo=1685433742125


Ralf


On 30.05.2023 02:32, Tim Selander via use-livecode wrote:
> Once again find myself over my head in just a simple programming project.
> 
> I made a little club members directory website, using LC server on 
> on-rev's hosting site.
> 
> Members can edit their info. I use a form, with the action going to an 
> LC script. This script gets all the post data, shuffles it off to the 
> database, and then goes back to the member's page using a re-direct:
> 
>   <meta http-equiv = "refresh" content = "2; url = <?lc put vlink?>" />
> 
> where vlink has the member's URL.
> 
> My Problem: If folk update their photos, their browser cache still shows 
> the old picture -- logically leading them to think the update failed.
> 
> The photos are simply stored on the server, the database only stores the 
> path of the file. The photo file shown on the member's page with an 
> image tag.
> 
> Can any of the gurus here tell me how to get the page to ignore the 
> cache so the browser shows the new photo?
> 
> Many thanks.
> 
> Tim Selander
> Tokyo, Japan




From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Tue May 30 04:31:22 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 10:31:22 +0200
Subject: LC Server and forcing page refreshes
In-Reply-To: <5fe3bd1d-45b8-16ed-b820-1b0640a401b0@tkf.att.ne.jp>
References: <5fe3bd1d-45b8-16ed-b820-1b0640a401b0@tkf.att.ne.jp>
Message-ID: <8918C785-19CF-41C7-A7FA-018E1C2D38ED@m-r-d.de>

Couldn't you disable the caching with meta html tags? See here for a explanation

https://cristian.sulea.net/blog/disable-browser-caching-with-meta-html-tags/



Regards,
Matthias


> Am 30.05.2023 um 02:32 schrieb Tim Selander via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Once again find myself over my head in just a simple programming project.
> 
> I made a little club members directory website, using LC server on on-rev's hosting site.
> 
> Members can edit their info. I use a form, with the action going to an LC script. This script gets all the post data, shuffles it off to the database, and then goes back to the member's page using a re-direct:
> 
> <meta http-equiv = "refresh" content = "2; url = <?lc put vlink?>" />
> 
> where vlink has the member's URL.
> 
> My Problem: If folk update their photos, their browser cache still shows the old picture -- logically leading them to think the update failed.
> 
> The photos are simply stored on the server, the database only stores the path of the file. The photo file shown on the member's page with an image tag.
> 
> Can any of the gurus here tell me how to get the page to ignore the cache so the browser shows the new photo?
> 
> Many thanks.
> 
> Tim Selander
> Tokyo, Japan
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Tue May 30 11:21:54 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 15:21:54 +0000
Subject: The Backdrop's Purpose In Life
In-Reply-To: <1885f2cd650.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533D49E33A7A061F57190A4B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <18413637-663f-4f3a-84a0-548d42c830d8@fourthworld.com>
 <7ba419f3-2469-ad83-f27b-96474bdb5073@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CA+JfEq92=W=17cPZMJ9R9in0bnm6Mm+26H+r+YbFf6A6xBHxPg@mail.gmail.com>
 <89d943b0-619b-d97e-3ad2-82dd00a54975@gmail.com>
 <1885f2cd650.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <SJ0PR02MB75337589569F2E1A111C2059B24B9@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>

By way of reminder I am having the issue with Windows 10, as my Ventura laptop is still down. (Apparently Apple has not fixed the boot failure problem when doing a minor system update.) 

Apparently Windows treats every open window as it's own application instance. Alt-Tabbing to an LC window only brings that one window to the front. No pallets or toolbars come with it. But enabling the backdrop fixes that. 

Bob Sneidar

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> On Behalf Of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2023 2:46 PM
To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Cc: J. Landman Gay <jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
Subject: Re: The Backdrop's Purpose In Life

Did you try Cmd-tab to cycle to another app and back? Does it also work if you bring another app to the front and then use the dock to return to LC? 
If so that would be good news.

I did find a backdrop glitch in a standalone on Monterey. Only one window showed where there should have been two.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On May 27, 2023 10:06:43 AM Richmond via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Note that the LC backdrop with LC 9.6.3 community works just fine with 
> MacOS Ventura.
>
> Kisses, Richmond.
>
> On 27.05.23 6:58, panagiotis m via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hello all,
>>
>> Note that the LC backdrop does not work on MacOS Ventura.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Panos
>>
>> On Fri, 26 May 2023, 22:23 J. Landman Gay via use-livecode, < 
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/26/23 1:14 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> Bob Sneidar wrote:
>>>>
>>>>   > HA! I just figured out what the purpose of the backdrop is!
>>>>   > If you have multiple LC windows open and you tab to another
>>>>   > app's window, then tab back to the LC window, ONLY that LC
>>>>   > window will appear in the foreground. With Backdrop on, ALL
>>>>   > the LC windows will become visible when you tab to any LC
>>>>   > window.
>>>>
>>>> The OS vendors help with that too:
>>>>
>>>> Windows: Shift-click Taskbar icon -> "Bring All Windows Forward"
>>>>
>>>> macOS:   Window menu -> Bring All to Front
>>>>
>>> Clicking the icon in the Mac Dock also brings all windows forward.
>>> --
>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




_______________________________________________
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From merakosp at gmail.com  Tue May 30 12:11:14 2023
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis m)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 19:11:14 +0300
Subject: The Backdrop's Purpose In Life
In-Reply-To: <SJ0PR02MB75337589569F2E1A111C2059B24B9@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533D49E33A7A061F57190A4B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <18413637-663f-4f3a-84a0-548d42c830d8@fourthworld.com>
 <7ba419f3-2469-ad83-f27b-96474bdb5073@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CA+JfEq92=W=17cPZMJ9R9in0bnm6Mm+26H+r+YbFf6A6xBHxPg@mail.gmail.com>
 <89d943b0-619b-d97e-3ad2-82dd00a54975@gmail.com>
 <1885f2cd650.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <SJ0PR02MB75337589569F2E1A111C2059B24B9@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq-Ruyk3w=1bLjz2bvoRGN-AhWcTZhVrW3bQGhCQWZv2hA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all,

@Bob
You might want to have a look at the "raiseWindows" global property.

Cheers,
Panos
--

On Tue, 30 May 2023 at 18:23, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> By way of reminder I am having the issue with Windows 10, as my Ventura
> laptop is still down. (Apparently Apple has not fixed the boot failure
> problem when doing a minor system update.)
>
> Apparently Windows treats every open window as it's own application
> instance. Alt-Tabbing to an LC window only brings that one window to the
> front. No pallets or toolbars come with it. But enabling the backdrop fixes
> that.
>
> Bob Sneidar
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> On Behalf Of
> J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
> Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2023 2:46 PM
> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Cc: J. Landman Gay <jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
> Subject: Re: The Backdrop's Purpose In Life
>
> Did you try Cmd-tab to cycle to another app and back? Does it also work if
> you bring another app to the front and then use the dock to return to LC?
> If so that would be good news.
>
> I did find a backdrop glitch in a standalone on Monterey. Only one window
> showed where there should have been two.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software |
> http://www.hyperactivesw.com On May 27, 2023 10:06:43 AM Richmond via
> use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > Note that the LC backdrop with LC 9.6.3 community works just fine with
> > MacOS Ventura.
> >
> > Kisses, Richmond.
> >
> > On 27.05.23 6:58, panagiotis m via use-livecode wrote:
> >> Hello all,
> >>
> >> Note that the LC backdrop does not work on MacOS Ventura.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Panos
> >>
> >> On Fri, 26 May 2023, 22:23 J. Landman Gay via use-livecode, <
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 5/26/23 1:14 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
> >>>> Bob Sneidar wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>   > HA! I just figured out what the purpose of the backdrop is!
> >>>>   > If you have multiple LC windows open and you tab to another
> >>>>   > app's window, then tab back to the LC window, ONLY that LC
> >>>>   > window will appear in the foreground. With Backdrop on, ALL
> >>>>   > the LC windows will become visible when you tab to any LC
> >>>>   > window.
> >>>>
> >>>> The OS vendors help with that too:
> >>>>
> >>>> Windows: Shift-click Taskbar icon -> "Bring All Windows Forward"
> >>>>
> >>>> macOS:   Window menu -> Bring All to Front
> >>>>
> >>> Clicking the icon in the Mac Dock also brings all windows forward.
> >>> --
> >>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> >>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> use-livecode mailing list
> >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >>> subscription preferences:
> >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From andrew at midwestcoastmedia.com  Wed May 31 14:39:26 2023
From: andrew at midwestcoastmedia.com (Andrew at MWCM)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2023 14:39:26 -0400
Subject: Android and USB footswitch
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1685030401.128917.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.1.1685030401.128917.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <507C5486-0188-468C-B248-8C4B9416114D@midwestcoastmedia.com>

You can open local PDFs in a LiveCode app by loading them into the Browser widget. Do you plan on compiling with the PDFs as part of your app (in the Resources folder) or trying to add to the app after the fact?

—Andrew Bell

>>> Since PDFs are not accessible via "mobilepickmedia" are there ANY other ways to add 
>>> some PDFs later without having to download them from some URL?
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 


From klaus at major-k.de  Wed May 31 14:45:27 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2023 20:45:27 +0200
Subject: Android and USB footswitch
In-Reply-To: <507C5486-0188-468C-B248-8C4B9416114D@midwestcoastmedia.com>
References: <mailman.1.1685030401.128917.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <507C5486-0188-468C-B248-8C4B9416114D@midwestcoastmedia.com>
Message-ID: <348DAFA2-554B-4E9D-B90A-B07EA0A54A8D@major-k.de>

Hi Andrew,

> Am 31.05.2023 um 20:39 schrieb Andrew at MWCM via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> You can open local PDFs in a LiveCode app by loading them into the Browser widget.

that does not work on Android! :-/
However I have a license the PDF widget.

> Do you plan on compiling with the PDFs as part of your app (in the Resources folder) or trying to add to the app after the fact?

Both! 
I have a large collection of music PDF and also want to add some later.

> —Andrew Bell
> 
>>>> Since PDFs are not accessible via "mobilepickmedia" are there ANY other ways to add 
>>>> some PDFs later without having to download them from some URL?
>> 
>> Best
>> 
>> Klaus

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From monte.goulding at livecode.com  Mon May  1 00:41:17 2023
From: monte.goulding at livecode.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Mon, 1 May 2023 14:41:17 +1000
Subject: mySQL and primary key
In-Reply-To: <03bd7225a05442bbc509c0f04c74fce6@souslelogo.com>
References: <03bd7225a05442bbc509c0f04c74fce6@souslelogo.com>
Message-ID: <5F8D6023-77A5-4DC6-BF55-AA01379697FA@livecode.com>

If you can connect remotely to the server then try using MySQL workbench (available from Oracle) if not then you will need to SSH to the server, login to mysql on command line and do it there.

> On 29 Apr 2023, at 9:40 pm, jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi list,
> 
> I have a mySQL table with 13500000 entries that weights
> almost 20 Gb.
> I need to create a primary key on the "id" column.
> I have tried in phpMyAdmin as well as in a script with
> "ALTER TABLE myTable ADD PRIMARY KEY(id)", but each time
> I get a "504 Gateway Timeout" error, and no index is created.
> 
> What else can I try ?
> 
> Thank you in advance.
> jbv
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From klaus at major-k.de  Tue May  2 09:06:24 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 15:06:24 +0200
Subject: opencard and visual effect
Message-ID: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>

Hi friends,

quick question:
Will "opencard" be sent to a card AFTER the card was navigated to
with a visual effect or already during the effect?

I cannot tell actually in my stack.


Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From craig at starfirelighting.com  Tue May  2 10:05:38 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 10:05:38 -0400
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <ACF30412-A84D-4502-AD63-1E629DB0A24E@starfirelighting.com>

Klaus.

I would guess that as soon as the card was navigated to, that is, before any visual effect starts or finishes.

Not sure how to test this since I am not sure what messages or properties might be set before, during or after a visual effect runs.

Craig

> On May 2, 2023, at 9:06 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi friends,
> 
> quick question:
> Will "opencard" be sent to a card AFTER the card was navigated to
> with a visual effect or already during the effect?
> 
> I cannot tell actually in my stack.
> 
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From dvglasgow at gmail.com  Tue May  2 10:08:13 2023
From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David Glasgow)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 15:08:13 +0100
Subject: Creating 'read only' text files
In-Reply-To: <8ba5f663-334d-1354-a5ce-18f1b08395d7@researchware.com>
References: <D2D3E180-1312-44D8-A8D5-5D65F4427359@gmail.com>
 <8ba5f663-334d-1354-a5ce-18f1b08395d7@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <024B995C-0499-467A-8D21-EBD5009B832B@gmail.com>

Perfect.  Thanks, Paul.

> On 30 Apr 2023, at 1:43 pm, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I don't know of a Livecode syntax per se to do this (i.e some syntax like: set the permissions of file tFile to read-only)
> 
> You can do this in Livecode using the shell() function (see the dictionary) to issue applicable mac or win command lines. For eample a Google search shows the command line to change a file's permissions on Windows is:
> 
> attrib +r file.txt
> 
> so you could code something like (not tested):
> 
> switch platform()
>   case "Win32"
>     set the hideConsoleWindows to true -- prevents windows console window from appears when the shell command executes
>    put "attrib +r " & quote & tFile & quote into tCommand -- were tFile is the file (path and name with native \ delimiters) you want to make read-only
>    put shell(tCommand) into tResult
>    break
>   case "MacOS"
>     -- use chmod 744 apple.txt for you to have full access and everyone else read-only OR
>     -- use chmod 444 apple.txt for everyone, you included, to be read-only
>    put "chmod 444 " & quote & tFile & quote into tCommand -- were tFile is the file (path and name) you want to make read-only
>    put shell(tCommand) into tResult
>    break
> end switch
> 
> This code may need some tweaking but I think this is the general approach to do what you want.
> 
> On 4/30/2023 7:35 AM, David V Glasgow via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hi folks,
>> 
>> Really simple question that I can’t see having been asked before, so here goes…
>> 
>> I have a stack that outputs small text files.  Each includes a hash value referencing part of itself that can be checked subsequently, so any change to the text can be flagged.
>> 
>> Is there a way I can easily create read-only files (Mac & Win) to discourage accidental user changes?  No need for encryption or hiding information anywhere, I just want to deter casual oopsies.
>> 
>> Thanks in anticipation...
>> 
>> Best Wishes,
>> 
>> David Glasgow
>> Honorary Professor, Nottingham Trent University
>> Sexual Offences, Crime and Misconduct Research Unit
>> Consultant Forensic & Clinical Psychologist
>> Carlton Glasgow Partnership
>> Director, Child & Family Training, York
>> 
>> 
>> LinkedIn <https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidvglasgow/ <https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidvglasgow/>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode <http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode <http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode>

From klaus at major-k.de  Tue May  2 10:21:18 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 16:21:18 +0200
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <ACF30412-A84D-4502-AD63-1E629DB0A24E@starfirelighting.com>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
 <ACF30412-A84D-4502-AD63-1E629DB0A24E@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <09831C08-2ED2-4AAF-A7F4-72820B632695@major-k.de>

Hi Craig,

> Am 02.05.2023 um 16:05 schrieb Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Klaus.
> 
> I would guess that as soon as the card was navigated to, that is, before any visual effect starts or finishes.
> Not sure how to test this since I am not sure what messages or properties might be set before, during or after a visual effect runs.
> 
> Craig

thank you, but I need certainty! :-)

My scenario:
...
lock screen for visual effect
set the effectrate to 300
go next cd
unlock screen with visual wipe left very slow
...

and on the "next card"  I need to measure the time until the 
user hits a certain key (1 or 2) on the keyboard like this:
-------------------------
## Script of the "next" card:
local tMillisecs

on opencard
   put the millisecs into tMillisecs
end opencard

on keydown tKey
if tKey = 1 OR tKey = 2 then
   put the millisecs - tMillisecs into tDuration
...

You get the picture, so I need to measure this precisely!



Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From dochawk at gmail.com  Tue May  2 10:25:57 2023
From: dochawk at gmail.com (doc hawk)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 07:25:57 -0700
Subject: Creating 'read only' text files
In-Reply-To: <D2D3E180-1312-44D8-A8D5-5D65F4427359@gmail.com>
References: <D2D3E180-1312-44D8-A8D5-5D65F4427359@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8AF00A73-7473-4097-B832-38377CADFF50@gmail.com>

And just to avoid the brainfreeeze that I’d probably absentmindedly implement:

You have to create the file and do all of your writing, and then *change* the file to read only . . .

Uihm, err, i never really make mistakes like that, or applying bus voltage to a whole bank of toggle switches, or . . .




From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com  Tue May  2 11:23:23 2023
From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 17:23:23 +0200
Subject: A spinner that keeps spinning
Message-ID: <A19230F3-714C-4457-A827-AAE9000E7188@gmail.com>

Hi all,

It has long annoyed me that the spinner widget doesn’t actually spin when you need it to - during lockScreen or when a database fetch blocks everything. Animated gifs are no better.

Inspired by some comment over at the forum, I embarked on building myself a tool for crafting spinners animated in browser widgets, as those would continue spinning in a heavenly layer of its own, no matter what traffic jams occur down on LC ground level… 

Of course the project grew bigger than initially planned, as they do, and is not finished yet, as they never are - but at least I have something good enough to use, and good enough to share (I think).

The stack is designed for use it in the LC IDE, to craft the spinner (or whatever animation you want) and then copy the browser widget (or just the htmlText) to wherever you want to use it. The code is completely self-sufficient (html and css all crammed in). 
One can obviously make any kind of repeating animation with it (within the limits of the current css animation lib), not only spinners. 

Here is a link to the gitHub rep:
https://github.com/wheninspace/WIS_BrowserAnimation

And here is a web deployment of it (LC10 dp5), just to prove that the resulting code also works on web.
https://wheninspace.com/browseranimation/
(Make sure to click the "Show examples” button to see some cool examples… :)

Please let me know if you find it useful (or how to improve it, if it isn't).

/Andreas

From hakan at exformedia.se  Tue May  2 11:47:33 2023
From: hakan at exformedia.se (=?utf-8?Q?H=C3=A5kan_Liljegren?=)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 17:47:33 +0200
Subject: Script widgets questions
Message-ID: <750A5A08-9A24-499B-B4E7-C1C4D991B151@exformedia.se>

Dabbling with some script widgets. Fun, but a bit tedious at the moment, but here are some findings and some questions/proposals. 

=== Findings: (Can be me missing something though…) ===

Don’t forget that you need to click the “Show Options” button in the file chooser and change the Format to “LiveCode Script” to be able to load your script widget at all in the Extension Builder. (I missed this and got very frustrated before I realised this) Often after changing the Format to “LiveCode Script” the script file is still greyed out, but you can still double-click the file to load… Unfortunately you need to set the format every time the file chooser pops up…

When creating a script widget you should use the extension builder to test it. Opening the script file, editing and saving and then creating via the command line via “create widget as …” is a bit hit and miss for me. It might be that I need to set things up better but even when trying the tutorials from the mothership it doesn’t work as expected. But opening the “Extension Builder” and then testing the widget works!

It is at the moment really easy to crash LiveCode when testing a widget. It feels like if you have almost any error in the code you might crash LiveCode, so count on that you need to save all the time and be prepared to restart often! This will certainly (hopefully?) improve as this is an early pre-release of script widgets.

When you are done testing, just close the window and LiveCode will handle everything for you or click the “Stop testing extension” button in the Extension Builder. If you use “Close and remove from memory” your test might not end properly and you might just get “Your widget is up to date” the next time you try to test it.

It is fine to “overload” properties in the widget. E.g. having a property named “backgroundColor” Is fine and your get- and setProp will be called. If you don’t add the "get propertyMetadata” for a property LiveCode will still add an entry in the inspector. This is both good and bad. Good because you can test your widget early, and bad because there seems to be no way to NOT get the property to show up. One strange finding here is that I created a “field” widget with some extra bells and whistles. So therefore I added properties for text, rtfText and htmlText. Of these I only wanted to show the text in the inspector. The htmlText and the rtfText shows up whatever I try but the text does not!? I can set the text fine via code though…


=== Questions / Proposals (Can again be me not knowing/missing something…) ===

It would be nice to be able to add properties that NOT show up in the inspector. My suggestion is that if there is a getProp propertyMetadata function only the properties included there should be included in the inspector.

When adding properties there seems to be no way to control the order they show up in the inspector!? Or is it? This makes it hard to get any logical order of the properties. This could be solved with an “order” key for each entry in propertyMetadata like:
getProp propertyMetadata[pProperty]
   switch pProperty
      case “backgroundColor"
          return {
		“order”: 1
…

It would also be nice to able to write:

getProp propertyMetadata[pProperty]
   switch pProperty
      case “backgroundColor"
          return {
		“type”: “native”
	}
…

Or some other way to support the “native” properties. A standard group in LiveCode can have colors, effects, and text settings and the colors and text settings are inherited by the controls in the group unless they have their own properties and effects are applied to the group. When creating script widgets you then need to duplicate all of this if you want to support it, and that shouldn’t be needed (IMHO). If it would be possible to just enable a tab in the inspector it would be really nice like:
getProp inspectorTabs[pTab]
	switch pTab
		case “colors”:
			return true
			break
		case “effects”
			return false
…

Or something similar to enable or disable a full tab.


But my final say is, that even if the script widgets are in an early stage, they are a really important and nice addition! So, keep up the good work!

:-Håkan

From hakan at exformedia.se  Tue May  2 11:56:30 2023
From: hakan at exformedia.se (=?utf-8?Q?H=C3=A5kan_Liljegren?=)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 17:56:30 +0200
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <126B6BDF-626C-4EDC-92F2-2796D608EF2C@exformedia.se>

AFTER!

Create two cards
Add a button or something on the first card with the code
on mouseUp
   visual effect dissolve slow
   go to next card
end mouseUp

On the second card add a control and the hide it and add the script to the card:
on opencard
   show control 1
end opencard

You will then clearly see that the first card dissolves slowly and when the transition is done the control appears (no cross-dissolve) 

The preOpenCard is run before and the openCard is run after.

:-Håkan

> On 2 May 2023, at 15:06, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi friends,
> 
> quick question:
> Will "opencard" be sent to a card AFTER the card was navigated to
> with a visual effect or already during the effect?
> 
> I cannot tell actually in my stack.
> 
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From klaus at major-k.de  Tue May  2 12:07:37 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 18:07:37 +0200
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <126B6BDF-626C-4EDC-92F2-2796D608EF2C@exformedia.se>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
 <126B6BDF-626C-4EDC-92F2-2796D608EF2C@exformedia.se>
Message-ID: <82F5C142-0548-4351-9781-EE3AFF8CE359@major-k.de>

Hi Håkan

> Am 02.05.2023 um 17:56 schrieb Håkan Liljegren via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> AFTER!
> 
> Create two cards
> Add a button or something on the first card with the code
> on mouseUp
>   visual effect dissolve slow
>   go to next card
> end mouseUp
> 
> On the second card add a control and the hide it and add the script to the card:
> on opencard
>   show control 1
> end opencard
> 
> You will then clearly see that the first card dissolves slowly and when the transition is done the control appears (no cross-dissolve) 
> The preOpenCard is run before and the openCard is run after.

hm, not sure, I made a test here by myself.

Button to go to next cd with a visual effect:
...
put the millisecs
## go_next is in the stack script and goes to the next card:
## lock screen for visual effect
## set the effectrate to 300
## go next cd
## unlock screen with visual wipe left very slow
go_next
...
Then on the "next" cd I scripted:
-----------------------------------
on opencard
  put the millisecs into tMillisecs
  put CR & tMillisecs after msg
end opencard
-----------------------------------
And I ended with this in the msg:
1683043067873
1683043067877

Only 4 millisecs difference, but with the set effectrate the difference should be at least 300!?
So I guess "opencard" is already sent BEFORE the visual effect, at least according to the above data, right?

Molto mysterioso... :-)

Someone knows exactly?

> :-Håkan
> 
>> On 2 May 2023, at 15:06, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi friends,
>> 
>> quick question:
>> Will "opencard" be sent to a card AFTER the card was navigated to
>> with a visual effect or already during the effect?
>> I cannot tell actually in my stack.

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From craig at starfirelighting.com  Tue May  2 12:16:35 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 12:16:35 -0400
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <09831C08-2ED2-4AAF-A7F4-72820B632695@major-k.de>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
 <ACF30412-A84D-4502-AD63-1E629DB0A24E@starfirelighting.com>
 <09831C08-2ED2-4AAF-A7F4-72820B632695@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <EEE21B9A-2E66-4409-9FE3-437586D67107@starfirelighting.com>

Klaus.

Why aren’t you doing this in the forum???

I made a stack with two cards. Card 1 has a button on it:

global tTime

on mouseUp

put the ticks into tTime

visual effect "checkerBoard" slow

go cd 2

end mouseUp



In the card 2 script:

global tTime

on openCard

put the ticks - tTime into fld 2

end openCard



I get about 60 ticks, so it seems the message is sent AFTER the visual effect completes. Know that with “preOpenCard” I get 0 ticks; the message is sent before the visual effect.

Craig


> On May 2, 2023, at 10:21 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Craig,
> 
>> Am 02.05.2023 um 16:05 schrieb Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Klaus.
>> 
>> I would guess that as soon as the card was navigated to, that is, before any visual effect starts or finishes.
>> Not sure how to test this since I am not sure what messages or properties might be set before, during or after a visual effect runs.
>> 
>> Craig
> 
> thank you, but I need certainty! :-)
> 
> My scenario:
> ...
> lock screen for visual effect
> set the effectrate to 300
> go next cd
> unlock screen with visual wipe left very slow
> ...
> 
> and on the "next card"  I need to measure the time until the 
> user hits a certain key (1 or 2) on the keyboard like this:
> -------------------------
> ## Script of the "next" card:
> local tMillisecs
> 
> on opencard
>   put the millisecs into tMillisecs
> end opencard
> 
> on keydown tKey
> if tKey = 1 OR tKey = 2 then
>   put the millisecs - tMillisecs into tDuration
> ...
> 
> You get the picture, so I need to measure this precisely!
> 
> 
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From klaus at major-k.de  Tue May  2 12:18:21 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 18:18:21 +0200
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <82F5C142-0548-4351-9781-EE3AFF8CE359@major-k.de>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
 <126B6BDF-626C-4EDC-92F2-2796D608EF2C@exformedia.se>
 <82F5C142-0548-4351-9781-EE3AFF8CE359@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <F5D4790D-B6CD-4CD0-ACD2-B9370D93DE63@major-k.de>

Hi all,

> Am 02.05.2023 um 18:07 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi Håkan
> 
>> Am 02.05.2023 um 17:56 schrieb Håkan Liljegren via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> AFTER!
>> 
>> Create two cards
>> Add a button or something on the first card with the code
>> on mouseUp
>>  visual effect dissolve slow
>>  go to next card
>> end mouseUp
>> 
>> On the second card add a control and the hide it and add the script to the card:
>> on opencard
>>  show control 1
>> end opencard
>> 
>> You will then clearly see that the first card dissolves slowly and when the transition is done the control appears (no cross-dissolve) 
>> The preOpenCard is run before and the openCard is run after.
> 
> hm, not sure, I made a test here by myself.
> 
> Button to go to next cd with a visual effect:
> ...
> put the millisecs
> ## go_next is in the stack script and goes to the next card:
> ## lock screen for visual effect
> ## set the effectrate to 300
> ## go next cd
> ## unlock screen with visual wipe left very slow
> go_next
> ...
> Then on the "next" cd I scripted:
> -----------------------------------
> on opencard
>  put the millisecs into tMillisecs
>  put CR & tMillisecs after msg
> end opencard
> -----------------------------------
> And I ended with this in the msg:
> 1683043067873
> 1683043067877
> 
> Only 4 millisecs difference, but with the set effectrate the difference should be at least 300!?
> So I guess "opencard" is already sent BEFORE the visual effect, at least according to the above data, right?
> 
> Molto mysterioso... :-)
> 
> Someone knows exactly?

obviously there is a big difference by using:
----------------------------
lock screen for visual effect
go next
unlock screen...
----------------------------
And:
----------------------------
 visual effect ...
 go to next card
----------------------------
Using the latter I get this in the msg:
1683043997883
1683043998101

Not the full 300 millisecs difference as exspected by the effectrate, but more than in my first test.

Someone knowing please chime in! :-)


Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Tue May  2 12:18:34 2023
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 12:18:34 -0400
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <82F5C142-0548-4351-9781-EE3AFF8CE359@major-k.de>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
 <126B6BDF-626C-4EDC-92F2-2796D608EF2C@exformedia.se>
 <82F5C142-0548-4351-9781-EE3AFF8CE359@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <004a01d97d11$c116e740$4344b5c0$@net>

The rendering get done after preOpenCard completes. In preOpenCard you can set up your data and geometry before the card is displayed. Try timing from the start of preOpenCard to start the openCard handlers.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net


-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Klaus major-k via use-livecode
Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2023 12:08 PM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Klaus major-k
Subject: Re: opencard and visual effect

Hi Håkan

> Am 02.05.2023 um 17:56 schrieb Håkan Liljegren via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> AFTER!
> 
> Create two cards
> Add a button or something on the first card with the code on mouseUp
>   visual effect dissolve slow
>   go to next card
> end mouseUp
> 
> On the second card add a control and the hide it and add the script to the card:
> on opencard
>   show control 1
> end opencard
> 
> You will then clearly see that the first card dissolves slowly and 
> when the transition is done the control appears (no cross-dissolve) The preOpenCard is run before and the openCard is run after.

hm, not sure, I made a test here by myself.

Button to go to next cd with a visual effect:
...
put the millisecs
## go_next is in the stack script and goes to the next card:
## lock screen for visual effect
## set the effectrate to 300
## go next cd
## unlock screen with visual wipe left very slow go_next ...
Then on the "next" cd I scripted:
-----------------------------------
on opencard
  put the millisecs into tMillisecs
  put CR & tMillisecs after msg
end opencard
-----------------------------------
And I ended with this in the msg:
1683043067873
1683043067877

Only 4 millisecs difference, but with the set effectrate the difference should be at least 300!?
So I guess "opencard" is already sent BEFORE the visual effect, at least according to the above data, right?

Molto mysterioso... :-)

Someone knows exactly?

> :-Håkan
> 
>> On 2 May 2023, at 15:06, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi friends,
>> 
>> quick question:
>> Will "opencard" be sent to a card AFTER the card was navigated to 
>> with a visual effect or already during the effect?
>> I cannot tell actually in my stack.

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de


_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From klaus at major-k.de  Tue May  2 12:21:54 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 18:21:54 +0200
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <EEE21B9A-2E66-4409-9FE3-437586D67107@starfirelighting.com>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
 <ACF30412-A84D-4502-AD63-1E629DB0A24E@starfirelighting.com>
 <09831C08-2ED2-4AAF-A7F4-72820B632695@major-k.de>
 <EEE21B9A-2E66-4409-9FE3-437586D67107@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <51DC6B91-5028-4195-9544-C39F1002B9D9@major-k.de>

Craig,

> Am 02.05.2023 um 18:16 schrieb Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Klaus.
> 
> Why aren’t you doing this in the forum???

this is a free country, I can do it whereever I like! :-D

> I made a stack with two cards. Card 1 has a button on it:
> 
> global tTime
> 
> on mouseUp
> put the ticks into tTime
> visual effect "checkerBoard" slow
> go cd 2
> end mouseUp
> 
> In the card 2 script:
> global tTime
> on openCard
> put the ticks - tTime into fld 2
> end openCard
> 
> I get about 60 ticks, so it seems the message is sent AFTER the visual effect completes. Know that with “preOpenCard” I get 0 ticks; the message is sent before the visual effect.
> 
> Craig

See my last mail, which is even more irritating...


Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue May  2 12:59:25 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 02 May 2023 11:59:25 -0500
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <F5D4790D-B6CD-4CD0-ACD2-B9370D93DE63@major-k.de>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
 <126B6BDF-626C-4EDC-92F2-2796D608EF2C@exformedia.se>
 <82F5C142-0548-4351-9781-EE3AFF8CE359@major-k.de>
 <F5D4790D-B6CD-4CD0-ACD2-B9370D93DE63@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <187dd6791c8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

Open the message watcher and compare its report to what you see on screen. 
That might help.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 2, 2023 11:19:41 AM Klaus major-k via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> Someone knowing please chime in! :-)





From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Tue May  2 12:59:49 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 12:59:49 -0400
Subject: Script widgets questions
In-Reply-To: <750A5A08-9A24-499B-B4E7-C1C4D991B151@exformedia.se>
References: <750A5A08-9A24-499B-B4E7-C1C4D991B151@exformedia.se>
Message-ID: <CADCoycPgwONR4RR25uTs=SzO1XCMnFL-qOG3hBPuQWi_g3nVkA@mail.gmail.com>

this is all going to be from memory from working with LCB widgets, and i
haven't worked with lcb widgets in months because i'm still waiting for LC
on several things.
anyway:
* i think that you are supposed to quote property names that are reserved
or already in use
* the way the property inspectors/property editor behave can be/are up to
you, but the documentation is zero. the PI is a stack in the LC bundle, and
it's intertwined with a number of other stacks, so slogging through it is
slow.
* you could try the repos i started on these topics, and maybe throw some
issues in:
https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual (wiki here:
https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual/wiki)
https://github.com/macMikey/LC-HACK

From klaus at major-k.de  Tue May  2 13:08:21 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 19:08:21 +0200
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <187dd6791c8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
 <126B6BDF-626C-4EDC-92F2-2796D608EF2C@exformedia.se>
 <82F5C142-0548-4351-9781-EE3AFF8CE359@major-k.de>
 <F5D4790D-B6CD-4CD0-ACD2-B9370D93DE63@major-k.de>
 <187dd6791c8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <64F00104-F165-4853-8898-B64CA836A510@major-k.de>

Hi Jacque,

> Am 02.05.2023 um 18:59 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Open the message watcher and compare its report to what you see on screen. That might help.

I did and see this:
...
preopencard 7:01:46 PM (0)
opencard 7:01:46 (3)
...
I may be a bit slow, but what does the three millisecs difference tell me? 8-)
That everyting (pre- and opencard) does in fact happen AFTER the visual effect?


Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From craig at starfirelighting.com  Tue May  2 13:17:45 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 13:17:45 -0400
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <64F00104-F165-4853-8898-B64CA836A510@major-k.de>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
 <126B6BDF-626C-4EDC-92F2-2796D608EF2C@exformedia.se>
 <82F5C142-0548-4351-9781-EE3AFF8CE359@major-k.de>
 <F5D4790D-B6CD-4CD0-ACD2-B9370D93DE63@major-k.de>
 <187dd6791c8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <64F00104-F165-4853-8898-B64CA836A510@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <3DCF70F5-0BA3-46C0-97C7-55EFA39FC595@starfirelighting.com>

Klaus.

Come back from the dark side. If you do I will send you the stack I made that seems to indicate that “openCard” is sent after the visual effect terminates.

Craig

> On May 2, 2023, at 1:08 PM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Jacque,
> 
>> Am 02.05.2023 um 18:59 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Open the message watcher and compare its report to what you see on screen. That might help.
> 
> I did and see this:
> ...
> preopencard 7:01:46 PM (0)
> opencard 7:01:46 (3)
> ...
> I may be a bit slow, but what does the three millisecs difference tell me? 8-)
> That everyting (pre- and opencard) does in fact happen AFTER the visual effect?
> 
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From craig at starfirelighting.com  Tue May  2 13:19:03 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 13:19:03 -0400
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <64F00104-F165-4853-8898-B64CA836A510@major-k.de>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
 <126B6BDF-626C-4EDC-92F2-2796D608EF2C@exformedia.se>
 <82F5C142-0548-4351-9781-EE3AFF8CE359@major-k.de>
 <F5D4790D-B6CD-4CD0-ACD2-B9370D93DE63@major-k.de>
 <187dd6791c8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <64F00104-F165-4853-8898-B64CA836A510@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <F9B5AE76-B752-4E58-9E0E-999A912A9196@starfirelighting.com>

Jacque.

Go to the forum. I did just that, and the “openCard” message appears in the message watcher exactly after the visual effect finishes.

Craig

> On May 2, 2023, at 1:08 PM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Jacque,
> 
>> Am 02.05.2023 um 18:59 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Open the message watcher and compare its report to what you see on screen. That might help.
> 
> I did and see this:
> ...
> preopencard 7:01:46 PM (0)
> opencard 7:01:46 (3)
> ...
> I may be a bit slow, but what does the three millisecs difference tell me? 8-)
> That everyting (pre- and opencard) does in fact happen AFTER the visual effect?
> 
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From klaus at major-k.de  Tue May  2 13:28:48 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 19:28:48 +0200
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <3DCF70F5-0BA3-46C0-97C7-55EFA39FC595@starfirelighting.com>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
 <126B6BDF-626C-4EDC-92F2-2796D608EF2C@exformedia.se>
 <82F5C142-0548-4351-9781-EE3AFF8CE359@major-k.de>
 <F5D4790D-B6CD-4CD0-ACD2-B9370D93DE63@major-k.de>
 <187dd6791c8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <64F00104-F165-4853-8898-B64CA836A510@major-k.de>
 <3DCF70F5-0BA3-46C0-97C7-55EFA39FC595@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <0FDD9016-F168-45DF-B6BB-289C8DDAFBAB@major-k.de>

Hi Craig,

> Am 02.05.2023 um 19:17 schrieb Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Klaus.
> 
> Come back from the dark side.

I have no idea why you are so possessed by the forum, is it a fetish thing? :-D

Here on the list I already see more than 10 postings to my question, try to outgun
this with the forum. 8-)

> If you do I will send you the stack I made that seems to indicate that “openCard” is sent after the visual effect terminates.

Thank you, but I do not need any other example stack, I want to know it with my stack and I also want to know 
why there are differences between the two ways of going to the next card with a visual effect. See my last mails...

> Craig
>> On May 2, 2023, at 1:08 PM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> Hi Jacque,
>>> Am 02.05.2023 um 18:59 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> Open the message watcher and compare its report to what you see on screen. That might help.
>> I did and see this:
>> ...
>> preopencard 7:01:46 PM (0)
>> opencard 7:01:46 (3)
>> ...
>> I may be a bit slow, but what does the three millisecs difference tell me? 8-)
>> That everyting (pre- and opencard) does in fact happen AFTER the visual effect?

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From Bernd.Niggemann at uni-wh.de  Tue May  2 14:43:24 2023
From: Bernd.Niggemann at uni-wh.de (Niggemann, Bernd)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 18:43:24 +0000
Subject: A spinner that keeps spinning
Message-ID: <0417C21C-5C82-4A20-BC0E-FC5B00A87B94@uni-wh.de>

Andreas Bergendal wrote:

> Inspired by some comment over at the forum, I embarked on building myself a 
> tool for crafting spinners animated in browser widgets, as those would continue 
> spinning in a heavenly layer of its own, no matter what traffic jams occur down 
> on LC ground level… 

Thank you for this amazing stack/WebApp.

It is very, very cool.

Kind regards
Bernd

From hakan at exformedia.se  Tue May  2 17:00:05 2023
From: hakan at exformedia.se (=?utf-8?Q?H=C3=A5kan_Liljegren?=)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 23:00:05 +0200
Subject: Script widgets questions
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycPgwONR4RR25uTs=SzO1XCMnFL-qOG3hBPuQWi_g3nVkA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <750A5A08-9A24-499B-B4E7-C1C4D991B151@exformedia.se>
 <CADCoycPgwONR4RR25uTs=SzO1XCMnFL-qOG3hBPuQWi_g3nVkA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <589A4A0F-142C-489C-820D-2DB5596B58B2@exformedia.se>

Thanks!

The “user_visible" works with script_widgets also, so setting:

case “htmlText”
	return { “user_visible” : false } 
	…

Will hide the property in the inspector. Unfortunately the “group” or “subsection” doesn’t seem to work. All my properties are still jumbled.

> On 2 May 2023, at 18:59, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> this is all going to be from memory from working with LCB widgets, and i
> haven't worked with lcb widgets in months because i'm still waiting for LC
> on several things.
> anyway:
> * i think that you are supposed to quote property names that are reserved
> or already in use
> * the way the property inspectors/property editor behave can be/are up to
> you, but the documentation is zero. the PI is a stack in the LC bundle, and
> it's intertwined with a number of other stacks, so slogging through it is
> slow.
> * you could try the repos i started on these topics, and maybe throw some
> issues in:
> https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual (wiki here:
> https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual/wiki)
> https://github.com/macMikey/LC-HACK
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From craig at starfirelighting.com  Tue May  2 17:00:24 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 17:00:24 -0400
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <0FDD9016-F168-45DF-B6BB-289C8DDAFBAB@major-k.de>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
 <126B6BDF-626C-4EDC-92F2-2796D608EF2C@exformedia.se>
 <82F5C142-0548-4351-9781-EE3AFF8CE359@major-k.de>
 <F5D4790D-B6CD-4CD0-ACD2-B9370D93DE63@major-k.de>
 <187dd6791c8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <64F00104-F165-4853-8898-B64CA836A510@major-k.de>
 <3DCF70F5-0BA3-46C0-97C7-55EFA39FC595@starfirelighting.com>
 <0FDD9016-F168-45DF-B6BB-289C8DDAFBAB@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <29F847B2-0636-4462-826F-F473F773A439@starfirelighting.com>

Klaus.

It is a works-much-better thing. Script samples and quotes can be separated from the main body of text. One can attach stacks and, for Richmond at least, silly photos and art layouts. One can edit past posts, or even delete them.

One can search threads in many ways.  MANY.

I was going to attach an emoji, but, well, we are in the use-list.

Otherwise, nothing significant.

Craig

> On May 2, 2023, at 1:28 PM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Craig,
> 
>> Am 02.05.2023 um 19:17 schrieb Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Klaus.
>> 
>> Come back from the dark side.
> 
> I have no idea why you are so possessed by the forum, is it a fetish thing? :-D
> 
> Here on the list I already see more than 10 postings to my question, try to outgun
> this with the forum. 8-)
> 
>> If you do I will send you the stack I made that seems to indicate that “openCard” is sent after the visual effect terminates.
> 
> Thank you, but I do not need any other example stack, I want to know it with my stack and I also want to know 
> why there are differences between the two ways of going to the next card with a visual effect. See my last mails...
> 
>> Craig
>>> On May 2, 2023, at 1:08 PM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Jacque,
>>>> Am 02.05.2023 um 18:59 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>> Open the message watcher and compare its report to what you see on screen. That might help.
>>> I did and see this:
>>> ...
>>> preopencard 7:01:46 PM (0)
>>> opencard 7:01:46 (3)
>>> ...
>>> I may be a bit slow, but what does the three millisecs difference tell me? 8-)
>>> That everyting (pre- and opencard) does in fact happen AFTER the visual effect?
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Tue May  2 17:10:57 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 17:10:57 -0400
Subject: Script widgets questions
In-Reply-To: <589A4A0F-142C-489C-820D-2DB5596B58B2@exformedia.se>
References: <750A5A08-9A24-499B-B4E7-C1C4D991B151@exformedia.se>
 <CADCoycPgwONR4RR25uTs=SzO1XCMnFL-qOG3hBPuQWi_g3nVkA@mail.gmail.com>
 <589A4A0F-142C-489C-820D-2DB5596B58B2@exformedia.se>
Message-ID: <CADCoycMLYdTO0ih+pBB8Qo5sbvViyrarihit2gc8W5EFR0ahNQ@mail.gmail.com>

if you're reusing properties that are already defined, elsewhere, you might
run into an issue with the panel, but if that's not the case, then i
suspect you have another problem. the pi works. it's just not documented.

On Tue, May 2, 2023 at 5:01 PM Håkan Liljegren via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Thanks!
>
> The “user_visible" works with script_widgets also, so setting:
>
> case “htmlText”
>         return { “user_visible” : false }
>         …
>
> Will hide the property in the inspector. Unfortunately the “group” or
> “subsection” doesn’t seem to work. All my properties are still jumbled.
>
> > On 2 May 2023, at 18:59, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > this is all going to be from memory from working with LCB widgets, and i
> > haven't worked with lcb widgets in months because i'm still waiting for
> LC
> > on several things.
> > anyway:
> > * i think that you are supposed to quote property names that are reserved
> > or already in use
> > * the way the property inspectors/property editor behave can be/are up to
> > you, but the documentation is zero. the PI is a stack in the LC bundle,
> and
> > it's intertwined with a number of other stacks, so slogging through it is
> > slow.
> > * you could try the repos i started on these topics, and maybe throw some
> > issues in:
> > https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual (wiki here:
> > https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual/wiki)
> > https://github.com/macMikey/LC-HACK
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Tue May  2 17:14:46 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 21:14:46 +0000
Subject: A spinner that keeps spinning
In-Reply-To: <A19230F3-714C-4457-A827-AAE9000E7188@gmail.com>
References: <A19230F3-714C-4457-A827-AAE9000E7188@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A9A7ABA0-1A4B-4552-959C-89AF42789260@iotecdigital.com>

That is pretty cool. I created a Spinner app which is a standalone that responds to AppleScript commands or Sockets. Since it is a standalone, it runs under it's own thread. I created internal commands to show or hide itself, as well as setting the displayed message. Using browser widgets seems a better implementation though. 

Bob S


> On May 2, 2023, at 08:23, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> It has long annoyed me that the spinner widget doesn’t actually spin when you need it to - during lockScreen or when a database fetch blocks everything. Animated gifs are no better.
> 
> Inspired by some comment over at the forum, I embarked on building myself a tool for crafting spinners animated in browser widgets, as those would continue spinning in a heavenly layer of its own, no matter what traffic jams occur down on LC ground level… 
> 
> Of course the project grew bigger than initially planned, as they do, and is not finished yet, as they never are - but at least I have something good enough to use, and good enough to share (I think).
> 
> The stack is designed for use it in the LC IDE, to craft the spinner (or whatever animation you want) and then copy the browser widget (or just the htmlText) to wherever you want to use it. The code is completely self-sufficient (html and css all crammed in). 
> One can obviously make any kind of repeating animation with it (within the limits of the current css animation lib), not only spinners. 
> 
> Here is a link to the gitHub rep:
> https://github.com/wheninspace/WIS_BrowserAnimation
> 
> And here is a web deployment of it (LC10 dp5), just to prove that the resulting code also works on web.
> https://wheninspace.com/browseranimation/
> (Make sure to click the "Show examples” button to see some cool examples… :)
> 
> Please let me know if you find it useful (or how to improve it, if it isn't).
> 
> /Andreas
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bogdanoff at me.com  Tue May  2 18:23:01 2023
From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 18:23:01 -0400
Subject: A spinner that keeps spinning
In-Reply-To: <0417C21C-5C82-4A20-BC0E-FC5B00A87B94@uni-wh.de>
References: <0417C21C-5C82-4A20-BC0E-FC5B00A87B94@uni-wh.de>
Message-ID: <74501A14-9FF2-443C-A72B-F955CE6DAA80@me.com>

This is great, thank you!

Peter Bogdanoff

> On May 2, 2023, at 2:43 PM, Niggemann, Bernd via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Andreas Bergendal wrote:
> 
>> Inspired by some comment over at the forum, I embarked on building myself a 
>> tool for crafting spinners animated in browser widgets, as those would continue 
>> spinning in a heavenly layer of its own, no matter what traffic jams occur down 
>> on LC ground level… 
> 
> Thank you for this amazing stack/WebApp.
> 
> It is very, very cool.
> 
> Kind regards
> Bernd
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue May  2 18:52:13 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 02 May 2023 17:52:13 -0500
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <29F847B2-0636-4462-826F-F473F773A439@starfirelighting.com>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
 <126B6BDF-626C-4EDC-92F2-2796D608EF2C@exformedia.se>
 <82F5C142-0548-4351-9781-EE3AFF8CE359@major-k.de>
 <F5D4790D-B6CD-4CD0-ACD2-B9370D93DE63@major-k.de>
 <187dd6791c8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <64F00104-F165-4853-8898-B64CA836A510@major-k.de>
 <3DCF70F5-0BA3-46C0-97C7-55EFA39FC595@starfirelighting.com>
 <0FDD9016-F168-45DF-B6BB-289C8DDAFBAB@major-k.de>
 <29F847B2-0636-4462-826F-F473F773A439@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <187deaa9148.2804.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

Well, it works better for *you*. I want info to come to me, I don't want to 
search. My right hand doesn't like all that clicking, I have a brace for 
that, and you can't navigate the forum from the keyboard. I want the digest 
to appear in my email where I can scan quickly and immediately jump to a 
post when I want to respond.

I don't care about all the unnecessary images and almost never download 
stacks from the forum so I don't miss them here. But also, most of the old 
timers are here on the list which can provide a wider pool of expertise.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 2, 2023 4:03:10 PM Craig Newman via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Klaus.
>
> It is a works-much-better thing. Script samples and quotes can be separated 
> from the main body of text. One can attach stacks and, for Richmond at 
> least, silly photos and art layouts. One can edit past posts, or even 
> delete them.
>
> One can search threads in many ways.  MANY.
>
> I was going to attach an emoji, but, well, we are in the use-list.
>
> Otherwise, nothing significant.
>
> Craig
>
>> On May 2, 2023, at 1:28 PM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Craig,
>>
>>> Am 02.05.2023 um 19:17 schrieb Craig Newman via use-livecode 
>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>
>>> Klaus.
>>>
>>> Come back from the dark side.
>>
>> I have no idea why you are so possessed by the forum, is it a fetish thing? :-D
>>
>> Here on the list I already see more than 10 postings to my question, try to 
>> outgun
>> this with the forum. 8-)
>>
>>> If you do I will send you the stack I made that seems to indicate that 
>>> openCard is sent after the visual effect terminates.
>>
>> Thank you, but I do not need any other example stack, I want to know it 
>> with my stack and I also want to know
>> why there are differences between the two ways of going to the next card 
>> with a visual effect. See my last mails...
>>
>>> Craig
>>>> On May 2, 2023, at 1:08 PM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode 
>>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi Jacque,
>>>>> Am 02.05.2023 um 18:59 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>>>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>>> Open the message watcher and compare its report to what you see on screen. 
>>>>> That might help.
>>>> I did and see this:
>>>> ...
>>>> preopencard 7:01:46 PM (0)
>>>> opencard 7:01:46 (3)
>>>> ...
>>>> I may be a bit slow, but what does the three millisecs difference tell me? 8-)
>>>> That everyting (pre- and opencard) does in fact happen AFTER the visual effect?
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Klaus
>>
>> --
>> Klaus Major
>> https://www.major-k.de
>> https://www.major-k.de/bass
>> klaus at major-k.de
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Tue May  2 18:56:04 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 22:56:04 +0000
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <187deaa9148.2804.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
 <126B6BDF-626C-4EDC-92F2-2796D608EF2C@exformedia.se>
 <82F5C142-0548-4351-9781-EE3AFF8CE359@major-k.de>
 <F5D4790D-B6CD-4CD0-ACD2-B9370D93DE63@major-k.de>
 <187dd6791c8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <64F00104-F165-4853-8898-B64CA836A510@major-k.de>
 <3DCF70F5-0BA3-46C0-97C7-55EFA39FC595@starfirelighting.com>
 <0FDD9016-F168-45DF-B6BB-289C8DDAFBAB@major-k.de>
 <29F847B2-0636-4462-826F-F473F773A439@starfirelighting.com>
 <187deaa9148.2804.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <2596BAD8-7E90-4FCB-B292-A805CC911D15@iotecdigital.com>

I can attest that as an old timer, if I am not very careful, I can provide a very wide pool. ;-)

Bob S

On May 2, 2023, at 15:52, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

Well, it works better for *you*. I want info to come to me, I don't want to search. My right hand doesn't like all that clicking, I have a brace for that, and you can't navigate the forum from the keyboard. I want the digest to appear in my email where I can scan quickly and immediately jump to a post when I want to respond.

I don't care about all the unnecessary images and almost never download stacks from the forum so I don't miss them here. But also, most of the old timers are here on the list which can provide a wider pool of expertise.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com<mailto:jacque at hyperactivesw.com>


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed May  3 00:25:50 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 02 May 2023 23:25:50 -0500
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <2596BAD8-7E90-4FCB-B292-A805CC911D15@iotecdigital.com>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
 <126B6BDF-626C-4EDC-92F2-2796D608EF2C@exformedia.se>
 <82F5C142-0548-4351-9781-EE3AFF8CE359@major-k.de>
 <F5D4790D-B6CD-4CD0-ACD2-B9370D93DE63@major-k.de>
 <187dd6791c8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <64F00104-F165-4853-8898-B64CA836A510@major-k.de>
 <3DCF70F5-0BA3-46C0-97C7-55EFA39FC595@starfirelighting.com>
 <0FDD9016-F168-45DF-B6BB-289C8DDAFBAB@major-k.de>
 <29F847B2-0636-4462-826F-F473F773A439@starfirelighting.com>
 <187deaa9148.2804.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <2596BAD8-7E90-4FCB-B292-A805CC911D15@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <187dfdc00b0.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

You and my husband should go have a drink together. ;)
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 2, 2023 5:58:07 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I can attest that as an old timer, if I am not very careful, I can provide 
> a very wide pool. ;-)





From roland.huettmann at gmail.com  Wed May  3 05:36:05 2023
From: roland.huettmann at gmail.com (R.H.)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2023 11:36:05 +0200
Subject: A spinner that keeps spinning
Message-ID: <CAG1Q0g9x6zhzyxhEqY-jvXk8GUf8GNtksrypeBUKD_f5R7-SNw@mail.gmail.com>

Andreas, a very nice work and helpful for many projects.

I habe tested your stack briefly on Windows 11 and so far, all is working
very well. I have never tested several browser widgets at once on one card.

Thank you.

Roland

From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Wed May  3 07:55:30 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2023 07:55:30 -0400
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <187dfdc00b0.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
 <126B6BDF-626C-4EDC-92F2-2796D608EF2C@exformedia.se>
 <82F5C142-0548-4351-9781-EE3AFF8CE359@major-k.de>
 <F5D4790D-B6CD-4CD0-ACD2-B9370D93DE63@major-k.de>
 <187dd6791c8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <64F00104-F165-4853-8898-B64CA836A510@major-k.de>
 <3DCF70F5-0BA3-46C0-97C7-55EFA39FC595@starfirelighting.com>
 <0FDD9016-F168-45DF-B6BB-289C8DDAFBAB@major-k.de>
 <29F847B2-0636-4462-826F-F473F773A439@starfirelighting.com>
 <187deaa9148.2804.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <2596BAD8-7E90-4FCB-B292-A805CC911D15@iotecdigital.com>
 <187dfdc00b0.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycOcmV5Xx7Y0Z+3DHtfMca06j4uufvVYyULUcFRmc5S3Hw@mail.gmail.com>

not on the forums.
the bigger brains are here.
less noise here
better behavior here

On Wed, May 3, 2023 at 12:27 AM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> You and my husband should go have a drink together. ;)
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On May 2, 2023 5:58:07 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode
> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > I can attest that as an old timer, if I am not very careful, I can
> provide
> > a very wide pool. ;-)
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From klaus at major-k.de  Wed May  3 08:25:16 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2023 14:25:16 +0200
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <64F00104-F165-4853-8898-B64CA836A510@major-k.de>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
 <126B6BDF-626C-4EDC-92F2-2796D608EF2C@exformedia.se>
 <82F5C142-0548-4351-9781-EE3AFF8CE359@major-k.de>
 <F5D4790D-B6CD-4CD0-ACD2-B9370D93DE63@major-k.de>
 <187dd6791c8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <64F00104-F165-4853-8898-B64CA836A510@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <31DB6D0E-7F1F-4A92-831F-7685D436FE2F@major-k.de>

Hi all,

> 
>> Am 02.05.2023 um 18:59 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Open the message watcher and compare its report to what you see on screen. That might help.
> 
> I did and see this:
> ...
> preopencard 7:01:46 PM (0)
> opencard 7:01:46 (3)
> ...
> I may be a bit slow, but what does the three millisecs difference tell me? 8-)
> That everyting (pre- and opencard) does in fact happen AFTER the visual effect?

any hints still welcome...


Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From craig at starfirelighting.com  Wed May  3 09:29:29 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2023 09:29:29 -0400
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <31DB6D0E-7F1F-4A92-831F-7685D436FE2F@major-k.de>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
 <126B6BDF-626C-4EDC-92F2-2796D608EF2C@exformedia.se>
 <82F5C142-0548-4351-9781-EE3AFF8CE359@major-k.de>
 <F5D4790D-B6CD-4CD0-ACD2-B9370D93DE63@major-k.de>
 <187dd6791c8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <64F00104-F165-4853-8898-B64CA836A510@major-k.de>
 <31DB6D0E-7F1F-4A92-831F-7685D436FE2F@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <DF5CF379-B0AB-4832-8BA0-A0BC03DE2C6E@starfirelighting.com>

Klaus.

That was fun.

Oh yes, the point of this thread.  To me it seems that preOpenCard is sent before, and openCard is sent after the effect terminates. The fact that you have 0 and 3 ticks is no different than having 0 and 125 ticks, The speed of the visual effect is not pertinent.

Well, except for the speed of the visual effect. -;)

Note pitiful “wink” emoji above.

Craig

> On May 3, 2023, at 8:25 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
>> 
>>> Am 02.05.2023 um 18:59 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> Open the message watcher and compare its report to what you see on screen. That might help.
>> 
>> I did and see this:
>> ...
>> preopencard 7:01:46 PM (0)
>> opencard 7:01:46 (3)
>> ...
>> I may be a bit slow, but what does the three millisecs difference tell me? 8-)
>> That everyting (pre- and opencard) does in fact happen AFTER the visual effect?
> 
> any hints still welcome...
> 
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From klaus at major-k.de  Wed May  3 11:35:13 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2023 17:35:13 +0200
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <DF5CF379-B0AB-4832-8BA0-A0BC03DE2C6E@starfirelighting.com>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
 <126B6BDF-626C-4EDC-92F2-2796D608EF2C@exformedia.se>
 <82F5C142-0548-4351-9781-EE3AFF8CE359@major-k.de>
 <F5D4790D-B6CD-4CD0-ACD2-B9370D93DE63@major-k.de>
 <187dd6791c8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <64F00104-F165-4853-8898-B64CA836A510@major-k.de>
 <31DB6D0E-7F1F-4A92-831F-7685D436FE2F@major-k.de>
 <DF5CF379-B0AB-4832-8BA0-A0BC03DE2C6E@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <10EBE68B-1CD4-448D-B396-1365AF75A25D@major-k.de>

Hi Craig,

> Am 03.05.2023 um 15:29 schrieb Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Klaus.
> 
> That was fun.

WAS? :-D

> Oh yes, the point of this thread.  To me it seems that preOpenCard is sent before, and openCard is sent after the effect terminates.

Obviously not, take another look at my results from the Message Watcher:
...
preopencard 7:01:46 PM (0)
opencard 7:01:46 (3)
...
Three milliseconds, not ticks, difference for a visual effect with the "effectrate" set to 300?
It LOOKS like 300 milliseconds, but definitively not like 3 millseconds.
That would be a tiny flashing, if at all.

So what is wrong here?
the effectrate?
the message watcher?
openCard is sent after the effect terminates? The above results show the opposite. 
Not?

Problem for me ist to measure the time until the user hits a key after a question 
appears on the screen on the card. 
And I start this on "opencard", so the VISUAL effect, what the user really sees,
MUST have been terminated, but obviously "opencard" does not respect this.
Or am I completely wrong here? Wouldn't be the first time...

As a workaround I'll leave the visual effect out, temporarily. 8-)

> The fact that you have 0 and 3 ticks

> is no different than having 0 and 125 ticks, The speed of the visual effect is not pertinent.
> Well, except for the speed of the visual effect. -;)
> Note pitiful “wink” emoji above.

Nudge, nudge! :-D

> Craig

Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com  Wed May  3 13:44:15 2023
From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2023 19:44:15 +0200
Subject: A spinner that keeps spinning
Message-ID: <FD7F3D2F-8E5A-454E-84E4-E404851CE5B1@gmail.com>

Thanks everyone for testing it and for your kind comments. :D

I have now updated the tool with the possibility to set the duration of the animations. This is quite good, as many of the animation effects are rather frantic, but with this new ability to slow them down they become more useful in my opinion.

Also, combining two animation effects becomes more interesting now when you can balance their durations independently, making for more varied movements.

And even better, I have also added… *drumroll* … more fish!
Eh, in the examples sections that is. It really is worth another visit to the web deployment just to see the fish, I promise! And the crab (proving that the animations continue during the move command too… ;-)

/Andreas

From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Wed May  3 13:48:40 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2023 13:48:40 -0400
Subject: A spinner that keeps spinning
In-Reply-To: <FD7F3D2F-8E5A-454E-84E4-E404851CE5B1@gmail.com>
References: <FD7F3D2F-8E5A-454E-84E4-E404851CE5B1@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycMoyxAUKvHkD23u=1PTB8oHmEpvzEMc5qjqE4mebvKXxw@mail.gmail.com>

Until there are threads
we have Andreas

On Wed, May 3, 2023 at 1:45 PM Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Thanks everyone for testing it and for your kind comments. :D
>
> I have now updated the tool with the possibility to set the duration of
> the animations. This is quite good, as many of the animation effects are
> rather frantic, but with this new ability to slow them down they become
> more useful in my opinion.
>
> Also, combining two animation effects becomes more interesting now when
> you can balance their durations independently, making for more varied
> movements.
>
> And even better, I have also added… *drumroll* … more fish!
> Eh, in the examples sections that is. It really is worth another visit to
> the web deployment just to see the fish, I promise! And the crab (proving
> that the animations continue during the move command too… ;-)
>
> /Andreas
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Wed May  3 13:57:10 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2023 18:57:10 +0100
Subject: A spinner that keeps spinning
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycMoyxAUKvHkD23u=1PTB8oHmEpvzEMc5qjqE4mebvKXxw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <FD7F3D2F-8E5A-454E-84E4-E404851CE5B1@gmail.com>
 <CADCoycMoyxAUKvHkD23u=1PTB8oHmEpvzEMc5qjqE4mebvKXxw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <266773E9-D9EB-4D2F-A59C-983E560A916B@gmail.com>

Indeed! Nice work Andreas.

> On 3 May 2023, at 6:48 pm, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Until there are threads
> we have Andreas
> 
> On Wed, May 3, 2023 at 1:45 PM Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Thanks everyone for testing it and for your kind comments. :D
>> 
>> I have now updated the tool with the possibility to set the duration of
>> the animations. This is quite good, as many of the animation effects are
>> rather frantic, but with this new ability to slow them down they become
>> more useful in my opinion.
>> 
>> Also, combining two animation effects becomes more interesting now when
>> you can balance their durations independently, making for more varied
>> movements.
>> 
>> And even better, I have also added… *drumroll* … more fish!
>> Eh, in the examples sections that is. It really is worth another visit to
>> the web deployment just to see the fish, I promise! And the crab (proving
>> that the animations continue during the move command too… ;-)
>> 
>> /Andreas
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>   and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From jiml at netrin.com  Wed May  3 14:18:03 2023
From: jiml at netrin.com (Jim Lambert)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2023 11:18:03 -0700
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1683129602.355193.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.1.1683129602.355193.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <14856126-1A8E-4550-BEB4-A0CC869921A5@netrin.com>

> Problem for me ist to measure the time until the user hits a key after a question 
> appears on the screen on the card. 
> And I start this on "opencard", so the VISUAL effect, what the user really sees,
> MUST have been terminated, but obviously "opencard" does not respect this.

If the visual effect may be compromising your very critical timing perhaps you should eliminate the visual effect.
Just go card and start timing upon opencard.

Jim Lambert

From klaus at major-k.de  Wed May  3 14:59:03 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2023 20:59:03 +0200
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <14856126-1A8E-4550-BEB4-A0CC869921A5@netrin.com>
References: <mailman.1.1683129602.355193.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <14856126-1A8E-4550-BEB4-A0CC869921A5@netrin.com>
Message-ID: <FEA3986C-C892-494A-BB5D-0EF4E1992507@major-k.de>

Hi Jim,

> Am 03.05.2023 um 20:18 schrieb Jim Lambert via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
>> Problem for me ist to measure the time until the user hits a key after a question 
>> appears on the screen on the card. 
>> And I start this on "opencard", so the VISUAL effect, what the user really sees,
>> MUST have been terminated, but obviously "opencard" does not respect this.
> If the visual effect may be compromising your very critical timing perhaps you should eliminate the visual effect.
> Just go card and start timing upon opencard.

you may have missed this in my last posting:
...
As a workaround I'll leave the visual effect out, temporarily.
...
:-)

> Jim Lambert

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From craig at starfirelighting.com  Wed May  3 15:07:52 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2023 15:07:52 -0400
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <FEA3986C-C892-494A-BB5D-0EF4E1992507@major-k.de>
References: <mailman.1.1683129602.355193.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <14856126-1A8E-4550-BEB4-A0CC869921A5@netrin.com>
 <FEA3986C-C892-494A-BB5D-0EF4E1992507@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <9020253E-7276-434E-9B6F-E823C9C919EC@starfirelighting.com>

Klaus.

I never use visual effects, though I played with them a lot in about 1988. They are “blocking” in some sense, so I think you are beat served by losing them entirely in your planning.

Craig

> On May 3, 2023, at 2:59 PM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Jim,
> 
>> Am 03.05.2023 um 20:18 schrieb Jim Lambert via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>>> Problem for me ist to measure the time until the user hits a key after a question 
>>> appears on the screen on the card. 
>>> And I start this on "opencard", so the VISUAL effect, what the user really sees,
>>> MUST have been terminated, but obviously "opencard" does not respect this.
>> If the visual effect may be compromising your very critical timing perhaps you should eliminate the visual effect.
>> Just go card and start timing upon opencard.
> 
> you may have missed this in my last posting:
> ...
> As a workaround I'll leave the visual effect out, temporarily.
> ...
> :-)
> 
>> Jim Lambert
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From paul at researchware.com  Wed May  3 16:24:45 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2023 16:24:45 -0400
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <14856126-1A8E-4550-BEB4-A0CC869921A5@netrin.com>
References: <mailman.1.1683129602.355193.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <14856126-1A8E-4550-BEB4-A0CC869921A5@netrin.com>
Message-ID: <8501dae5-ddbd-db4f-f38a-07b1b184ffb8@researchware.com>

If I have followed this thread:
1) Klaus executes a go to <card> with a visual effect using an effect 
rate of X millisecs
2) Klaus need to start a time on how long the user of the app has to 
answer a question once the card is displayed

I believe the order is:
1) preOpencard handler (if one) is executed
2) card is rendered in the window using the visual effect but the 
openCard handler (if one) is executed starting effectively at the same 
time as the visual effect based rendering of the card in the window 
takes place.

So starting the timer at the time "openCard" starts + the length of the 
effectRate of the visual effect used in the GO would represent when the 
user can expect to see the whole card.

So if the user has 5 seconds to answer the question and the effectRate 
was set to 500 millisecs then the start time of openCard + 500ms is when 
to start the counter for a  second reply.

Disclaimers: Depending upon the specific effect chosen and the placement 
of the question on the card, the user may be able to read the question a 
few millisec before the effect is done or even many millisec before the 
effect is done.

I don't think there is any way to have absolutely precise timing.





From klaus at major-k.de  Wed May  3 16:48:46 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2023 22:48:46 +0200
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <8501dae5-ddbd-db4f-f38a-07b1b184ffb8@researchware.com>
References: <mailman.1.1683129602.355193.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <14856126-1A8E-4550-BEB4-A0CC869921A5@netrin.com>
 <8501dae5-ddbd-db4f-f38a-07b1b184ffb8@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <CE480A4F-ADAB-416B-A55C-9E21069B449E@major-k.de>

Hi Pauil,

> Am 03.05.2023 um 22:24 schrieb Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> If I have followed this thread:
> 1) Klaus executes a go to <card> with a visual effect using an effect rate of X millisecs
> 2) Klaus need to start a time on how long the user of the app has to answer a question once the card is displayed
> I believe the order is:
> 1) preOpencard handler (if one) is executed
> 2) card is rendered in the window using the visual effect but the openCard handler (if one) is executed starting effectively at the same time as the visual effect based rendering of the card in the window takes place.
> So starting the timer at the time "openCard" starts + the length of the effectRate of the visual effect used in the GO would represent when the user can expect to see the whole card.
> So if the user has 5 seconds to answer the question and the effectRate was set to 500 millisecs then the start time of openCard + 500ms is when to start the counter for a  second reply.
> Disclaimers: Depending upon the specific effect chosen and the placement of the question on the card, the user may be able to read the question a few millisec before the effect is done or even many millisec before the effect is done.

thank you for your explanation, makes a lot of sense!

> I don't think there is any way to have absolutely precise timing.

Yep, I leave this oit and go directly to the card now.


Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From jiml at netrin.com  Thu May  4 13:35:36 2023
From: jiml at netrin.com (Jim Lambert)
Date: Thu, 4 May 2023 10:35:36 -0700
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1683216001.299272.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.1.1683216001.299272.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <00304983-DAA3-44F2-A94D-6C2E09958632@netrin.com>

> 
> you may have missed this in my last posting:

Klaus,

Indeed I did.

JimL

P.S. Another possibility you could also fake a transition. Then start your timer in the openCard handler of your destination card. 

In starting card:

on fakeTransition
	lock screen
	import snapshot from rectangle (the rect of next card) of next card
	put it into tempImage
	set the blendlevel of tempImage to 100
	unlock screen

	repeat with x = 100 down to 0 step -10
		set the blendlevel of tempImage to x
		wait 10 ticks with messages
	end repeat

	lock screen
	delete tempImage
	go next
end fakeTransition

In destination card:

on openCard
	startTimer
end openCard

From klaus at major-k.de  Thu May  4 17:38:48 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 4 May 2023 23:38:48 +0200
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <00304983-DAA3-44F2-A94D-6C2E09958632@netrin.com>
References: <mailman.1.1683216001.299272.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <00304983-DAA3-44F2-A94D-6C2E09958632@netrin.com>
Message-ID: <96CC6867-93E7-437C-9414-D3788D4C7C6D@major-k.de>

Hi Jim,

> Am 04.05.2023 um 19:35 schrieb Jim Lambert via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> you may have missed this in my last posting:
> 
> Klaus,
> 
> Indeed I did.
> 
> JimL
> 
> P.S. Another possibility you could also fake a transition. Then start your timer in the openCard handler of your destination card. 
> 
> In starting card:
> on fakeTransition
> 	lock screen
> 	import snapshot from rectangle (the rect of next card) of next card
> 	put it into tempImage
> 	set the blendlevel of tempImage to 100
> 	unlock screen
> 	repeat with x = 100 down to 0 step -10
> 		set the blendlevel of tempImage to x
> 		wait 10 ticks with messages
> 	end repeat
> 	lock screen
> 	delete tempImage
> 	go next
> end fakeTransition
> 
> In destination card:
> on openCard
> 	startTimer
> end openCard

thanks, but now I will navigate to the "timer" card without visual effect (real or fake).
My customer said that is OK. :-)


Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat May  6 17:05:33 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 6 May 2023 16:05:33 -0500
Subject: Default cursor
Message-ID: <02c16f42-7941-9dbb-18b0-301baac8dcd8@hyperactivesw.com>

I'm working on a stack that needs a default cursor. Sometimes it sets the cursor to none, but 
after that I can't get it back. Could someone verify?

Do this in the message box:

    set the defaultCursor to hand <cr>
    set the cursor to none; wait 1 second; set the cursor to hand

It doesn't come back. I also tried this:

    set the cursor to none; wait 1 second; set the cursor to the defaultcursor

Anyone have a workaround? (To get the regular cursor back after testing, "set the defaultcursor 
to empty".)

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From scott at elementarysoftware.com  Sat May  6 17:23:48 2023
From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (scott at elementarysoftware.com)
Date: Sat, 6 May 2023 14:23:48 -0700
Subject: Default cursor
In-Reply-To: <02c16f42-7941-9dbb-18b0-301baac8dcd8@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <02c16f42-7941-9dbb-18b0-301baac8dcd8@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <F147DAA1-D552-4AC8-8F81-7635BF745F46@elementarysoftware.com>

I’m getting the same thing. Putting the “none” cursor over the tool pallet gets the tools to hilite… but no cursor. Moving the “none” cursor to the message box (I started with it over an empty stack window) causes the “hand" cursor to establish without any additional scripting.

LC 9.6.9 stable  MBP M2Pro Ventura13.3.1(a)


> On May 6, 2023, at 2:05 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I'm working on a stack that needs a default cursor. Sometimes it sets the cursor to none, but after that I can't get it back. Could someone verify?
> 
> Do this in the message box:
> 
>   set the defaultCursor to hand <cr>
>   set the cursor to none; wait 1 second; set the cursor to hand
> 
> It doesn't come back. I also tried this:
> 
>   set the cursor to none; wait 1 second; set the cursor to the defaultcursor
> 
> Anyone have a workaround? (To get the regular cursor back after testing, "set the defaultcursor to empty".)
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sat May  6 17:39:38 2023
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2023 00:39:38 +0300
Subject: Default cursor
In-Reply-To: <02c16f42-7941-9dbb-18b0-301baac8dcd8@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <02c16f42-7941-9dbb-18b0-301baac8dcd8@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <b6afc453-12f7-9354-7571-d08956a06e91@gmail.com>

Sorry, Jacque: taking this across to the forums as want pictures and 
whatnot.

Love, Richmond.

On 7.05.23 0:05, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
> I'm working on a stack that needs a default cursor. Sometimes it sets 
> the cursor to none, but after that I can't get it back. Could someone 
> verify?
>
> Do this in the message box:
>
>    set the defaultCursor to hand <cr>
>    set the cursor to none; wait 1 second; set the cursor to hand
>
> It doesn't come back. I also tried this:
>
>    set the cursor to none; wait 1 second; set the cursor to the 
> defaultcursor
>
> Anyone have a workaround? (To get the regular cursor back after 
> testing, "set the defaultcursor to empty".)
>


From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sat May  6 17:51:55 2023
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2023 00:51:55 +0300
Subject: Default cursor
In-Reply-To: <02c16f42-7941-9dbb-18b0-301baac8dcd8@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <02c16f42-7941-9dbb-18b0-301baac8dcd8@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <e8ed605c-0106-8d94-6563-7a8807f14422@gmail.com>

AND, there (on the forums) I have found a way to get things to do what 
you want.

On 7.05.23 0:05, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
> I'm working on a stack that needs a default cursor. Sometimes it sets 
> the cursor to none, but after that I can't get it back. Could someone 
> verify?
>
> Do this in the message box:
>
>    set the defaultCursor to hand <cr>
>    set the cursor to none; wait 1 second; set the cursor to hand
>
> It doesn't come back. I also tried this:
>
>    set the cursor to none; wait 1 second; set the cursor to the 
> defaultcursor
>
> Anyone have a workaround? (To get the regular cursor back after 
> testing, "set the defaultcursor to empty".) 


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat May  6 19:08:26 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 6 May 2023 18:08:26 -0500
Subject: Default cursor
In-Reply-To: <e8ed605c-0106-8d94-6563-7a8807f14422@gmail.com>
References: <02c16f42-7941-9dbb-18b0-301baac8dcd8@hyperactivesw.com>
 <e8ed605c-0106-8d94-6563-7a8807f14422@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5dc3d75c-877d-6c4f-75bf-7c63b64fed25@hyperactivesw.com>

On 5/6/23 4:51 PM, Richmond via use-livecode wrote:
> AND, there (on the forums) I have found a way to get things to do what you want.

Please reply here, I have chosen my preferred venue. Images and downloads are unnecessary.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat May  6 19:15:47 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 6 May 2023 18:15:47 -0500
Subject: Default cursor
In-Reply-To: <F147DAA1-D552-4AC8-8F81-7635BF745F46@elementarysoftware.com>
References: <02c16f42-7941-9dbb-18b0-301baac8dcd8@hyperactivesw.com>
 <F147DAA1-D552-4AC8-8F81-7635BF745F46@elementarysoftware.com>
Message-ID: <2a4a830b-9af4-53aa-f72d-ea2997d57df4@hyperactivesw.com>

On 5/6/23 4:23 PM, scott--- via use-livecode wrote:
> I’m getting the same thing. Putting the “none” cursor over the tool pallet gets the tools to hilite… but no cursor. Moving the “none” cursor to the message box (I started with it over an empty stack window) causes the “hand" cursor to establish without any additional scripting.
> 
> LC 9.6.9 stable  MBP M2Pro Ventura13.3.1(a)

Thanks. I've found if you swipe the mouse over the script editor, or the dock, or another 
window it comes back. Basically, sweep the mouse erratically all over the screen until it hits 
something it recognizes. But I can't expect users to do that.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From scott at elementarysoftware.com  Sat May  6 21:21:31 2023
From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (scott at elementarysoftware.com)
Date: Sat, 6 May 2023 18:21:31 -0700
Subject: Default cursor
In-Reply-To: <2a4a830b-9af4-53aa-f72d-ea2997d57df4@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <02c16f42-7941-9dbb-18b0-301baac8dcd8@hyperactivesw.com>
 <F147DAA1-D552-4AC8-8F81-7635BF745F46@elementarysoftware.com>
 <2a4a830b-9af4-53aa-f72d-ea2997d57df4@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <36D389AB-CCDA-4914-83C9-0296B5560917@elementarysoftware.com>

Yeah, an interesting clue but not much of a workaround. Does this happen in a standalone or is it an IDE only issue…? (30 seconds later) Ick! Standalone, too and there seems to be even fewer things to interact with to get the cursor back. Clicking the menuBar works.
--
Scott Morrow

Elementary Software
(Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
web       https://elementarysoftware.com/
email     scott at elementarysoftware.com
booth    1-360-734-4701
------------------------------------------------------



> On May 6, 2023, at 4:15 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> On 5/6/23 4:23 PM, scott--- via use-livecode wrote:
>> I’m getting the same thing. Putting the “none” cursor over the tool pallet gets the tools to hilite… but no cursor. Moving the “none” cursor to the message box (I started with it over an empty stack window) causes the “hand" cursor to establish without any additional scripting.
>> LC 9.6.9 stable  MBP M2Pro Ventura13.3.1(a)
> 
> Thanks. I've found if you swipe the mouse over the script editor, or the dock, or another window it comes back. Basically, sweep the mouse erratically all over the screen until it hits something it recognizes. But I can't expect users to do that.
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sun May  7 03:58:43 2023
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2023 10:58:43 +0300
Subject: Default cursor
In-Reply-To: <5dc3d75c-877d-6c4f-75bf-7c63b64fed25@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <02c16f42-7941-9dbb-18b0-301baac8dcd8@hyperactivesw.com>
 <e8ed605c-0106-8d94-6563-7a8807f14422@gmail.com>
 <5dc3d75c-877d-6c4f-75bf-7c63b64fed25@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <58a3ca4e-e0af-4c5d-c482-9807efc29437@gmail.com>

Is that a fact?

Surely when someone offers help it seems churlish to set conditions.

On 7.05.23 2:08, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
> On 5/6/23 4:51 PM, Richmond via use-livecode wrote:
>> AND, there (on the forums) I have found a way to get things to do 
>> what you want.
>
> Please reply here, I have chosen my preferred venue. Images and 
> downloads are unnecessary.
>


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun May  7 12:30:32 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 07 May 2023 11:30:32 -0500
Subject: Default cursor
In-Reply-To: <58a3ca4e-e0af-4c5d-c482-9807efc29437@gmail.com>
References: <02c16f42-7941-9dbb-18b0-301baac8dcd8@hyperactivesw.com>
 <e8ed605c-0106-8d94-6563-7a8807f14422@gmail.com>
 <5dc3d75c-877d-6c4f-75bf-7c63b64fed25@hyperactivesw.com>
 <58a3ca4e-e0af-4c5d-c482-9807efc29437@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <187f70cec40.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

Apologies, I was in fact in a churlish mood. You should have seen what I 
wrote before I edited it.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 7, 2023 3:01:05 AM Richmond via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Is that a fact?
>
> Surely when someone offers help it seems churlish to set conditions.
>
> On 7.05.23 2:08, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
>> On 5/6/23 4:51 PM, Richmond via use-livecode wrote:
>>> AND, there (on the forums) I have found a way to get things to do
>>> what you want.
>>
>> Please reply here, I have chosen my preferred venue. Images and
>> downloads are unnecessary.
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun May  7 13:32:27 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 07 May 2023 12:32:27 -0500
Subject: Default cursor
In-Reply-To: <36D389AB-CCDA-4914-83C9-0296B5560917@elementarysoftware.com>
References: <02c16f42-7941-9dbb-18b0-301baac8dcd8@hyperactivesw.com>
 <F147DAA1-D552-4AC8-8F81-7635BF745F46@elementarysoftware.com>
 <2a4a830b-9af4-53aa-f72d-ea2997d57df4@hyperactivesw.com>
 <36D389AB-CCDA-4914-83C9-0296B5560917@elementarysoftware.com>
Message-ID: <187f7459bf8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

I suppose I could create a custom cursor set and replace the arrow with the 
custom cursor. LC does recover from "none" if a default cursor isn't set. 
I've never done a custom cursor set though so if anyone else has, I'd 
appreciate any tips.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 6, 2023 8:23:57 PM scott--- via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Yeah, an interesting clue but not much of a workaround. Does this happen in 
> a standalone or is it an IDE only issue? (30 seconds later) Ick! 
> Standalone, too and there seems to be even fewer things to interact with to 
> get the cursor back. Clicking the menuBar works.
> --
> Scott Morrow
>
> Elementary Software
> (Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
> web       https://elementarysoftware.com/
> email     scott at elementarysoftware.com
> booth    1-360-734-4701
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>> On May 6, 2023, at 4:15 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 5/6/23 4:23 PM, scott--- via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Im getting the same thing. Putting the none cursor over the tool pallet 
>>> gets the tools to hilite but no cursor. Moving the none cursor to the 
>>> message box (I started with it over an empty stack window) causes the 
>>> hand" cursor to establish without any additional scripting.
>>> LC 9.6.9 stable  MBP M2Pro Ventura13.3.1(a)
>>
>> Thanks. I've found if you swipe the mouse over the script editor, or the 
>> dock, or another window it comes back. Basically, sweep the mouse 
>> erratically all over the screen until it hits something it recognizes. But 
>> I can't expect users to do that.
>>
>> --
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Sun May  7 14:01:15 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2023 20:01:15 +0200
Subject: Default cursor
In-Reply-To: <187f7459bf8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <02c16f42-7941-9dbb-18b0-301baac8dcd8@hyperactivesw.com>
 <F147DAA1-D552-4AC8-8F81-7635BF745F46@elementarysoftware.com>
 <2a4a830b-9af4-53aa-f72d-ea2997d57df4@hyperactivesw.com>
 <36D389AB-CCDA-4914-83C9-0296B5560917@elementarysoftware.com>
 <187f7459bf8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <6AFADE0A-79B1-4D81-A544-89C032C84AF2@m-r-d.de>

I just did a quick test.
I downloaded a svg from Font Awesome website and imported it using "Import as Control -> image file " from file menu.
After that i could access that image and set the cursor to it.
But you have to resize the image to your preferred size either after importing or at least before using it as a cursor.

HTH

Matthias

> Am 07.05.2023 um 19:32 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> I suppose I could create a custom cursor set and replace the arrow with the custom cursor. LC does recover from "none" if a default cursor isn't set. I've never done a custom cursor set though so if anyone else has, I'd appreciate any tips.
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On May 6, 2023 8:23:57 PM scott--- via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Yeah, an interesting clue but not much of a workaround. Does this happen in a standalone or is it an IDE only issue…? (30 seconds later) Ick! Standalone, too and there seems to be even fewer things to interact with to get the cursor back. Clicking the menuBar works.
>> --
>> Scott Morrow
>> 
>> Elementary Software
>> (Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
>> web       https://elementarysoftware.com/
>> email     scott at elementarysoftware.com
>> booth    1-360-734-4701
>> ------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On May 6, 2023, at 4:15 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> On 5/6/23 4:23 PM, scott--- via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> I’m getting the same thing. Putting the “none” cursor over the tool pallet gets the tools to hilite… but no cursor. Moving the “none” cursor to the message box (I started with it over an empty stack window) causes the “hand" cursor to establish without any additional scripting.
>>>> LC 9.6.9 stable  MBP M2Pro Ventura13.3.1(a)
>>> 
>>> Thanks. I've found if you swipe the mouse over the script editor, or the dock, or another window it comes back. Basically, sweep the mouse erratically all over the screen until it hits something it recognizes. But I can't expect users to do that.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun May  7 15:16:19 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 07 May 2023 14:16:19 -0500
Subject: Default cursor
In-Reply-To: <6AFADE0A-79B1-4D81-A544-89C032C84AF2@m-r-d.de>
References: <02c16f42-7941-9dbb-18b0-301baac8dcd8@hyperactivesw.com>
 <F147DAA1-D552-4AC8-8F81-7635BF745F46@elementarysoftware.com>
 <2a4a830b-9af4-53aa-f72d-ea2997d57df4@hyperactivesw.com>
 <36D389AB-CCDA-4914-83C9-0296B5560917@elementarysoftware.com>
 <187f7459bf8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <6AFADE0A-79B1-4D81-A544-89C032C84AF2@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <187f7a4b3b8.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

I have an imported image to use as a custom cursor and it works. But I'm 
not sure how to create a custom cursor set. Maybe I can just replace the 
arrow in the built-in set. Or maybe a set is just a stack? That's what the 
revCursors are.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 7, 2023 1:03:20 PM matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I just did a quick test.
> I downloaded a svg from Font Awesome website and imported it using "Import 
> as Control -> image file " from file menu.
> After that i could access that image and set the cursor to it.
> But you have to resize the image to your preferred size either after 
> importing or at least before using it as a cursor.
>
> HTH
>
> Matthias
>
>> Am 07.05.2023 um 19:32 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>
>> I suppose I could create a custom cursor set and replace the arrow with the 
>> custom cursor. LC does recover from "none" if a default cursor isn't set. 
>> I've never done a custom cursor set though so if anyone else has, I'd 
>> appreciate any tips.
>> --
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>> On May 6, 2023 8:23:57 PM scott--- via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah, an interesting clue but not much of a workaround. Does this happen in 
>>> a standalone or is it an IDE only issue? (30 seconds later) Ick! 
>>> Standalone, too and there seems to be even fewer things to interact with to 
>>> get the cursor back. Clicking the menuBar works.
>>> --
>>> Scott Morrow
>>>
>>> Elementary Software
>>> (Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
>>> web       https://elementarysoftware.com/
>>> email     scott at elementarysoftware.com
>>> booth    1-360-734-4701
>>> ------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On May 6, 2023, at 4:15 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 5/6/23 4:23 PM, scott--- via use-livecode wrote:
>>>>> Im getting the same thing. Putting the none cursor over the tool pallet 
>>>>> gets the tools to hilite but no cursor. Moving the none cursor to the 
>>>>> message box (I started with it over an empty stack window) causes the 
>>>>> hand" cursor to establish without any additional scripting.
>>>>> LC 9.6.9 stable  MBP M2Pro Ventura13.3.1(a)
>>>>
>>>> Thanks. I've found if you swipe the mouse over the script editor, or the 
>>>> dock, or another window it comes back. Basically, sweep the mouse 
>>>> erratically all over the screen until it hits something it recognizes. But 
>>>> I can't expect users to do that.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>>>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun May  7 15:32:06 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 07 May 2023 14:32:06 -0500
Subject: Default cursor
In-Reply-To: <187f7a4b3b8.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <02c16f42-7941-9dbb-18b0-301baac8dcd8@hyperactivesw.com>
 <F147DAA1-D552-4AC8-8F81-7635BF745F46@elementarysoftware.com>
 <2a4a830b-9af4-53aa-f72d-ea2997d57df4@hyperactivesw.com>
 <36D389AB-CCDA-4914-83C9-0296B5560917@elementarysoftware.com>
 <187f7459bf8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <6AFADE0A-79B1-4D81-A544-89C032C84AF2@m-r-d.de>
 <187f7a4b3b8.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <187f7b326f0.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

So, reading the dictionary entry for "reset cursors" it looks like you 
can't create your own set, you can only change the built-in set. The 
problem with that is that I will not have an arrow any more, no matter what 
I'm working on. I'll always get the custom cursor, even though I only want 
it to appear in one project. It sounds like there is no other option though.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 7, 2023 2:18:32 PM "J. Landman Gay via use-livecode" 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I have an imported image to use as a custom cursor and it works. But I'm
> not sure how to create a custom cursor set. Maybe I can just replace the
> arrow in the built-in set. Or maybe a set is just a stack? That's what the
> revCursors are.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On May 7, 2023 1:03:20 PM matthias rebbe via use-livecode
> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> I just did a quick test.
>> I downloaded a svg from Font Awesome website and imported it using "Import
>> as Control -> image file " from file menu.
>> After that i could access that image and set the cursor to it.
>> But you have to resize the image to your preferred size either after
>> importing or at least before using it as a cursor.
>>
>> HTH
>>
>> Matthias
>>
>>> Am 07.05.2023 um 19:32 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>
>>> I suppose I could create a custom cursor set and replace the arrow with the
>>> custom cursor. LC does recover from "none" if a default cursor isn't set.
>>> I've never done a custom cursor set though so if anyone else has, I'd
>>> appreciate any tips.
>>> --
>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>> On May 6, 2023 8:23:57 PM scott--- via use-livecode
>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yeah, an interesting clue but not much of a workaround. Does this happen in
>>>> a standalone or is it an IDE only issue? (30 seconds later) Ick!
>>>> Standalone, too and there seems to be even fewer things to interact with to
>>>> get the cursor back. Clicking the menuBar works.
>>>> --
>>>> Scott Morrow
>>>>
>>>> Elementary Software
>>>> (Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
>>>> web       https://elementarysoftware.com/
>>>> email     scott at elementarysoftware.com
>>>> booth    1-360-734-4701
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On May 6, 2023, at 4:15 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
>>>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On 5/6/23 4:23 PM, scott--- via use-livecode wrote:
>>>>>> Im getting the same thing. Putting the none cursor over the tool pallet
>>>>>> gets the tools to hilite but no cursor. Moving the none cursor to the
>>>>>> message box (I started with it over an empty stack window) causes the
>>>>>> hand" cursor to establish without any additional scripting.
>>>>>> LC 9.6.9 stable  MBP M2Pro Ventura13.3.1(a)
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks. I've found if you swipe the mouse over the script editor, or the
>>>>> dock, or another window it comes back. Basically, sweep the mouse
>>>>> erratically all over the screen until it hits something it recognizes. But
>>>>> I can't expect users to do that.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>>>>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun May  7 16:03:33 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2023 15:03:33 -0500
Subject: Default cursor
In-Reply-To: <187f7b326f0.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <02c16f42-7941-9dbb-18b0-301baac8dcd8@hyperactivesw.com>
 <F147DAA1-D552-4AC8-8F81-7635BF745F46@elementarysoftware.com>
 <2a4a830b-9af4-53aa-f72d-ea2997d57df4@hyperactivesw.com>
 <36D389AB-CCDA-4914-83C9-0296B5560917@elementarysoftware.com>
 <187f7459bf8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <6AFADE0A-79B1-4D81-A544-89C032C84AF2@m-r-d.de>
 <187f7a4b3b8.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <187f7b326f0.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <2ebe5957-0ee1-3b4b-707e-00a63bf29048@hyperactivesw.com>

On 5/7/23 2:32 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
> So, reading the dictionary entry for "reset cursors" it looks like you can't create your own 
> set, you can only change the built-in set.

I changed the arrow cursor in the revMacCursors stack, saved, and relaunched LC. It still shows 
the arrow, which I assume is the system arrow. So, no go.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From jerry at jhjensen.com  Sun May  7 17:39:15 2023
From: jerry at jhjensen.com (Jerry Jensen)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2023 14:39:15 -0700
Subject: Hunting Default Preferences
Message-ID: <A683DE77-E51A-4F9B-AC7C-EA2B658B698A@jhjensen.com>

Hi folks,

I am returning to LiveCode after a spell of other projects, including debugging others’ LC code.

I find myself with a predicament - on launch of LC (no stack, just the LC app) I get a backdrop of off-white when I need none.
I have no idea how this got changed (never underestimate fatfingers).
There is probably a preference file somewhere that will let me change it back to the way it was (none) but I can’t seem to find it. 
I have looked everywhere that seems reasonable, but that is clearly not enough.

Its easy enough to put:
set the backdrop to none
in each mainstack opencard handler, but that is annoying at best.

Where should I look?

Regards,
Jerry Jensen
M1 MacBook Pro, OS 13.3.1 LC 9.6.9

From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Sun May  7 17:58:42 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2023 23:58:42 +0200
Subject: Hunting Default Preferences
In-Reply-To: <A683DE77-E51A-4F9B-AC7C-EA2B658B698A@jhjensen.com>
References: <A683DE77-E51A-4F9B-AC7C-EA2B658B698A@jhjensen.com>
Message-ID: <95FD4DD3-C2DF-462E-9ACE-B1DBAC8F4B22@m-r-d.de>

Jerry,

did you already try to delete the LC preference file?

The function revEnvironmentUserPreferencesPath()
returns the path to the preferences file.



> Am 07.05.2023 um 23:39 schrieb Jerry Jensen via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi folks,
> 
> I am returning to LiveCode after a spell of other projects, including debugging others’ LC code.
> 
> I find myself with a predicament - on launch of LC (no stack, just the LC app) I get a backdrop of off-white when I need none.
> I have no idea how this got changed (never underestimate fatfingers).
> There is probably a preference file somewhere that will let me change it back to the way it was (none) but I can’t seem to find it. 
> I have looked everywhere that seems reasonable, but that is clearly not enough.
> 
> Its easy enough to put:
> set the backdrop to none
> in each mainstack opencard handler, but that is annoying at best.
> 
> Where should I look?
> 
> Regards,
> Jerry Jensen
> M1 MacBook Pro, OS 13.3.1 LC 9.6.9
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From iowahengst at mac.com  Sun May  7 18:03:46 2023
From: iowahengst at mac.com (Randy Hengst)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2023 17:03:46 -0500
Subject: Hunting Default Preferences
In-Reply-To: <95FD4DD3-C2DF-462E-9ACE-B1DBAC8F4B22@m-r-d.de>
References: <A683DE77-E51A-4F9B-AC7C-EA2B658B698A@jhjensen.com>
 <95FD4DD3-C2DF-462E-9ACE-B1DBAC8F4B22@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <46E32A27-A489-4FEF-B2F8-EFE72625635E@mac.com>

You should be able to go to the View menu and toggle off backdrop.

take care,
randy

> On May 7, 2023, at 4:58 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Jerry,
> 
> did you already try to delete the LC preference file?
> 
> The function revEnvironmentUserPreferencesPath()
> returns the path to the preferences file.
> 
> 
> 
>> Am 07.05.2023 um 23:39 schrieb Jerry Jensen via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Hi folks,
>> 
>> I am returning to LiveCode after a spell of other projects, including debugging others’ LC code.
>> 
>> I find myself with a predicament - on launch of LC (no stack, just the LC app) I get a backdrop of off-white when I need none.
>> I have no idea how this got changed (never underestimate fatfingers).
>> There is probably a preference file somewhere that will let me change it back to the way it was (none) but I can’t seem to find it. 
>> I have looked everywhere that seems reasonable, but that is clearly not enough.
>> 
>> Its easy enough to put:
>> set the backdrop to none
>> in each mainstack opencard handler, but that is annoying at best.
>> 
>> Where should I look?
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Jerry Jensen
>> M1 MacBook Pro, OS 13.3.1 LC 9.6.9
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From jerry at jhjensen.com  Sun May  7 18:20:30 2023
From: jerry at jhjensen.com (Jerry Jensen)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2023 15:20:30 -0700
Subject: Hunting Default Preferences
In-Reply-To: <46E32A27-A489-4FEF-B2F8-EFE72625635E@mac.com>
References: <A683DE77-E51A-4F9B-AC7C-EA2B658B698A@jhjensen.com>
 <95FD4DD3-C2DF-462E-9ACE-B1DBAC8F4B22@m-r-d.de>
 <46E32A27-A489-4FEF-B2F8-EFE72625635E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <7AFC507D-8478-4694-9620-DF0884DD9DE1@jhjensen.com>

Oh that is TOO easy. No wonder I couldn’t find it!
Onward!
Thanks,
Jerry

> On May 7, 2023, at 3:03 PM, Randy Hengst via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> You should be able to go to the View menu and toggle off backdrop.
> 
> take care,
> randy
> 
>> On May 7, 2023, at 4:58 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Jerry,
>> 
>> did you already try to delete the LC preference file?
>> 
>> The function revEnvironmentUserPreferencesPath()
>> returns the path to the preferences file.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> Am 07.05.2023 um 23:39 schrieb Jerry Jensen via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> Hi folks,
>>> 
>>> I am returning to LiveCode after a spell of other projects, including debugging others’ LC code.
>>> 
>>> I find myself with a predicament - on launch of LC (no stack, just the LC app) I get a backdrop of off-white when I need none.
>>> I have no idea how this got changed (never underestimate fatfingers).
>>> There is probably a preference file somewhere that will let me change it back to the way it was (none) but I can’t seem to find it. 
>>> I have looked everywhere that seems reasonable, but that is clearly not enough.
>>> 
>>> Its easy enough to put:
>>> set the backdrop to none
>>> in each mainstack opencard handler, but that is annoying at best.
>>> 
>>> Where should I look?
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Jerry Jensen
>>> M1 MacBook Pro, OS 13.3.1 LC 9.6.9
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From jerry at jhjensen.com  Sun May  7 18:23:05 2023
From: jerry at jhjensen.com (Jerry Jensen)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2023 15:23:05 -0700
Subject: Hunting Default Preferences
In-Reply-To: <95FD4DD3-C2DF-462E-9ACE-B1DBAC8F4B22@m-r-d.de>
References: <A683DE77-E51A-4F9B-AC7C-EA2B658B698A@jhjensen.com>
 <95FD4DD3-C2DF-462E-9ACE-B1DBAC8F4B22@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <3A416E8D-7892-4355-A385-6FB121F6EB83@jhjensen.com>

That’s what I was looking for - the location of the LC preference file.
Actually Randy Hengst wisely advised me that the View menu has a toggle for the backdrop. . .    DUH!
Thanks,
Jerry

> On May 7, 2023, at 2:58 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Jerry,
> 
> did you already try to delete the LC preference file?
> 
> The function revEnvironmentUserPreferencesPath()
> returns the path to the preferences file.
> 
> 
> 
>> Am 07.05.2023 um 23:39 schrieb Jerry Jensen via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Hi folks,
>> 
>> I am returning to LiveCode after a spell of other projects, including debugging others’ LC code.
>> 
>> I find myself with a predicament - on launch of LC (no stack, just the LC app) I get a backdrop of off-white when I need none.
>> I have no idea how this got changed (never underestimate fatfingers).
>> There is probably a preference file somewhere that will let me change it back to the way it was (none) but I can’t seem to find it. 
>> I have looked everywhere that seems reasonable, but that is clearly not enough.
>> 
>> Its easy enough to put:
>> set the backdrop to none
>> in each mainstack opencard handler, but that is annoying at best.
>> 
>> Where should I look?
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Jerry Jensen
>> M1 MacBook Pro, OS 13.3.1 LC 9.6.9
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From paul at researchware.com  Tue May  9 19:30:00 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Tue, 9 May 2023 19:30:00 -0400
Subject: Inclusions and JSON
Message-ID: <5c416166-33ab-5ca3-692a-a9278d8c67ac@researchware.com>

I have a stack that serves as a plugin for our app. The plugin stack 
makes some calls using jsonToArray

The external stack alone in the LC 9.6.9 IDE works perfectly. The 
external plugin stack opened in our app in LC 9.6.9 IDE works perfectly. 
The external plugin stack opening in the standalone of our app, 
generates the error:

Function: error in function handler: jsonToArray (Line 61, column 8)
put: error in expression:  (Line 61, column 8)

Line 61 is just:   put jsonToArray(it) into tResponseA

There are other controls that work in the IDE and fail with the lines 
that include the jsonToArray call in the standalone. I do manual 
inclusions in the Standalone settings since the plugins are external 
stacks loaded into the standalone by user command. Automatic inclusions 
won't find the not-yet-loaded external stacks to find the JSON library 
calls. I have included the JSON Library in the inclusions list in my 
app's standalone settings.

Is there any other library that must be included for me to use 
jsonToArray? I am not a json literate person. I am just using copied 
code. Also, is there any debugging to be sure the JSON library was 
actually included in the standalone (the check box in the Standalone 
setting is set!)

Thank you for any guidance on this issue.





From paul at researchware.com  Tue May  9 19:57:26 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Tue, 9 May 2023 19:57:26 -0400
Subject: Inclusions and JSON
In-Reply-To: <5c416166-33ab-5ca3-692a-a9278d8c67ac@researchware.com>
References: <5c416166-33ab-5ca3-692a-a9278d8c67ac@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <7f73ff84-3ba8-a657-7712-e6735d87a002@researchware.com>

NEVER MIND.

I just realized that JSONToArray is part of the mergeJSON library and 
not part of the JSON library! Dear Livecode: For the JSON ignorant among 
us, could we just have one JSON library - by whatever name!


On 5/9/2023 7:30 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
> I have a stack that serves as a plugin for our app. The plugin stack 
> makes some calls using jsonToArray
>
> The external stack alone in the LC 9.6.9 IDE works perfectly. The 
> external plugin stack opened in our app in LC 9.6.9 IDE works 
> perfectly. The external plugin stack opening in the standalone of our 
> app, generates the error:
>
> Function: error in function handler: jsonToArray (Line 61, column 8)
> put: error in expression:  (Line 61, column 8)
>
> Line 61 is just:   put jsonToArray(it) into tResponseA
>
> There are other controls that work in the IDE and fail with the lines 
> that include the jsonToArray call in the standalone. I do manual 
> inclusions in the Standalone settings since the plugins are external 
> stacks loaded into the standalone by user command. Automatic 
> inclusions won't find the not-yet-loaded external stacks to find the 
> JSON library calls. I have included the JSON Library in the inclusions 
> list in my app's standalone settings.
>
> Is there any other library that must be included for me to use 
> jsonToArray? I am not a json literate person. I am just using copied 
> code. Also, is there any debugging to be sure the JSON library was 
> actually included in the standalone (the check box in the Standalone 
> setting is set!)
>
> Thank you for any guidance on this issue.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From heather at livecode.com  Wed May 10 07:37:05 2023
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2023 12:37:05 +0100
Subject: AMA today at 5
Message-ID: <767B4A31-9D84-41BA-9E99-857C33B16D83@livecode.com>

Hi folks,

Just in case anyone missed it, you have another opportunity to ask the team live questions this afternoon at 5pm (our time). Thats 12 noon in New York, or 9am in Los Angeles. We've made this an open session, you don't have to register in advance, and you can follow either in Zoom:

https://us02web.zoom.us/j/86437878174?pwd=NVdNaDYvc3ZCUFlvK3gwL0pOenhrUT09

or on Youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idEvGr31ElI <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idEvGr31ElI>

There were so many questions in the last session, we didn't get through them all. We're going to give it another shot!

Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com




From benr at cogapp.com  Wed May 10 09:56:06 2023
From: benr at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2023 14:56:06 +0100
Subject: Inclusions and JSON
In-Reply-To: <7f73ff84-3ba8-a657-7712-e6735d87a002@researchware.com>
References: <5c416166-33ab-5ca3-692a-a9278d8c67ac@researchware.com>
 <7f73ff84-3ba8-a657-7712-e6735d87a002@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <e97bede4-5666-d22a-d8ed-8ef9b442814c@cogapp.com>

Further to this: dear LiveCode, please make the Inclusions selector in the 
standalone settings window navigable - at least sortable by name, platform, 
selected; even-better-if can be filtered.

See also https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18199, which includes a 
comment in 2017 specifically referencing 'json' as a use-case for filtering.

And apparently Ali Lloyd did exactly this six years ago:
https://github.com/livecode/livecode-ide/pull/1809

... but nobody has ever reviewed the pull request.

:-(

Ben


On 10/05/2023 00:57, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
> NEVER MIND.
> 
> I just realized that JSONToArray is part of the mergeJSON library and not part 
> of the JSON library! Dear Livecode: For the JSON ignorant among us, could we 
> just have one JSON library - by whatever name!
> 
> 
> On 5/9/2023 7:30 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
>> I have a stack that serves as a plugin for our app. The plugin stack makes 
>> some calls using jsonToArray
>>
>> The external stack alone in the LC 9.6.9 IDE works perfectly. The external 
>> plugin stack opened in our app in LC 9.6.9 IDE works perfectly. The external 
>> plugin stack opening in the standalone of our app, generates the error:
>>
>> Function: error in function handler: jsonToArray (Line 61, column 8)
>> put: error in expression:  (Line 61, column 8)
>>
>> Line 61 is just:   put jsonToArray(it) into tResponseA
>>
>> There are other controls that work in the IDE and fail with the lines that 
>> include the jsonToArray call in the standalone. I do manual inclusions in 
>> the Standalone settings since the plugins are external stacks loaded into 
>> the standalone by user command. Automatic inclusions won't find the 
>> not-yet-loaded external stacks to find the JSON library calls. I have 
>> included the JSON Library in the inclusions list in my app's standalone 
>> settings.
>>
>> Is there any other library that must be included for me to use jsonToArray? 
>> I am not a json literate person. I am just using copied code. Also, is there 
>> any debugging to be sure the JSON library was actually included in the 
>> standalone (the check box in the Standalone setting is set!)
>>
>> Thank you for any guidance on this issue.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed May 10 11:18:49 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2023 10:18:49 -0500
Subject: Inclusions and JSON
In-Reply-To: <e97bede4-5666-d22a-d8ed-8ef9b442814c@cogapp.com>
References: <5c416166-33ab-5ca3-692a-a9278d8c67ac@researchware.com>
 <7f73ff84-3ba8-a657-7712-e6735d87a002@researchware.com>
 <e97bede4-5666-d22a-d8ed-8ef9b442814c@cogapp.com>
Message-ID: <188063e57a8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

Oh god yes. Please, please. I can never find anything in there.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 10, 2023 8:58:23 AM Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Further to this: dear LiveCode, please make the Inclusions selector in the
> standalone settings window navigable - at least sortable by name, platform,
> selected; even-better-if can be filtered.
>
> See also https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18199, which includes a
> comment in 2017 specifically referencing 'json' as a use-case for filtering.
>
> And apparently Ali Lloyd did exactly this six years ago:
> https://github.com/livecode/livecode-ide/pull/1809
>
> ... but nobody has ever reviewed the pull request.
>
> :-(
>
> Ben




From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Wed May 10 15:14:17 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2023 20:14:17 +0100
Subject: Inclusions and JSON
In-Reply-To: <e97bede4-5666-d22a-d8ed-8ef9b442814c@cogapp.com>
References: <5c416166-33ab-5ca3-692a-a9278d8c67ac@researchware.com>
 <7f73ff84-3ba8-a657-7712-e6735d87a002@researchware.com>
 <e97bede4-5666-d22a-d8ed-8ef9b442814c@cogapp.com>
Message-ID: <B06743DF-E5AD-41A0-9476-91D926DEB8CE@gmail.com>

I’d be happy to just have it sort by name. 

> On 10 May 2023, at 2:56 pm, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Further to this: dear LiveCode, please make the Inclusions selector in the standalone settings window navigable - at least sortable by name, platform, selected; even-better-if can be filtered.


From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Wed May 10 15:33:43 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2023 21:33:43 +0200
Subject: Inclusions and JSON
In-Reply-To: <B06743DF-E5AD-41A0-9476-91D926DEB8CE@gmail.com>
References: <5c416166-33ab-5ca3-692a-a9278d8c67ac@researchware.com>
 <7f73ff84-3ba8-a657-7712-e6735d87a002@researchware.com>
 <e97bede4-5666-d22a-d8ed-8ef9b442814c@cogapp.com>
 <B06743DF-E5AD-41A0-9476-91D926DEB8CE@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EE9FDAC4-C4D7-4CCB-A268-D3D9A5958C88@m-r-d.de>

Me too and, if not yet completely fixed, the supported platforms correctly shown.

> Am 10.05.2023 um 21:14 schrieb Mark Smith via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> I’d be happy to just have it sort by name. 
> 
>> On 10 May 2023, at 2:56 pm, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Further to this: dear LiveCode, please make the Inclusions selector in the standalone settings window navigable - at least sortable by name, platform, selected; even-better-if can be filtered.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From craig at starfirelighting.com  Wed May 10 16:51:10 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2023 16:51:10 -0400
Subject: Cannot make a standalone after upgrading to Mac Mini and Ventura
Message-ID: <17341127-436F-48B8-9403-50D39804E550@starfirelighting.com>

All.
Help
I got a new Mac Mini a month ago. Lovely. Working with LC on it. Lovely.

I tried to make a windows standalone from the same project I have for years. In the Applications Settings I cannot select the Windows pane. It is essentially disabled, and looks like it.

In fact, I cannot select any pane except the Mac one. The Mac standalone proceeds as usual, but there is nothing done on the Windows side.

I made a brand new stack. Same issue; only the Mac pane is accessible.

Before I put the splash stack and the mainStack on a thumb drive and reload them back on my old iMac to make an updated standalone, is it me or Ventura?

Craig


From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Wed May 10 16:58:39 2023
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2023 16:58:39 -0400
Subject: Cannot make a standalone after upgrading to Mac Mini and Ventura
In-Reply-To: <17341127-436F-48B8-9403-50D39804E550@starfirelighting.com>
References: <17341127-436F-48B8-9403-50D39804E550@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <009d01d98382$35884350$a098c9f0$@net>

I had this happen when I had more than one license. One old and a new with
"pro". I picked the one(default) without the "pro" features and had only a
couple of platforms. I relicensed selected "pro" and had all platforms.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net


-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
Of Craig Newman via use-livecode
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2023 4:51 PM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Craig Newman
Subject: Cannot make a standalone after upgrading to Mac Mini and Ventura

All.
Help
I got a new Mac Mini a month ago. Lovely. Working with LC on it. Lovely.

I tried to make a windows standalone from the same project I have for years.
In the Applications Settings I cannot select the Windows pane. It is
essentially disabled, and looks like it.

In fact, I cannot select any pane except the Mac one. The Mac standalone
proceeds as usual, but there is nothing done on the Windows side.

I made a brand new stack. Same issue; only the Mac pane is accessible.

Before I put the splash stack and the mainStack on a thumb drive and reload
them back on my old iMac to make an updated standalone, is it me or Ventura?

Craig

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From heather at livecode.com  Thu May 11 04:09:04 2023
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 09:09:04 +0100
Subject: Cannot make a standalone after upgrading to Mac Mini and Ventura
In-Reply-To: <17341127-436F-48B8-9403-50D39804E550@starfirelighting.com>
References: <17341127-436F-48B8-9403-50D39804E550@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <D9174D30-77A8-47DA-A6DA-6C12DC162FE5@livecode.com>

You probably need to switch licenses. This lesson may be helpful:

https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4072/l/1542014-i-have-a-valid-license-but-lc-says-it-is-expiring <https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4072/l/1542014-i-have-a-valid-license-but-lc-says-it-is-expiring>

If that doesn't solve it please email support :)

Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 10 May 2023, at 21:51, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> All.
> Help
> I got a new Mac Mini a month ago. Lovely. Working with LC on it. Lovely.
> 
> I tried to make a windows standalone from the same project I have for years. In the Applications Settings I cannot select the Windows pane. It is essentially disabled, and looks like it.
> 
> In fact, I cannot select any pane except the Mac one. The Mac standalone proceeds as usual, but there is nothing done on the Windows side.
> 
> I made a brand new stack. Same issue; only the Mac pane is accessible.
> 
> Before I put the splash stack and the mainStack on a thumb drive and reload them back on my old iMac to make an updated standalone, is it me or Ventura?
> 
> Craig
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From craig at starfirelighting.com  Thu May 11 09:11:36 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 09:11:36 -0400
Subject: Cannot make a standalone after upgrading to Mac Mini and Ventura
In-Reply-To: <D9174D30-77A8-47DA-A6DA-6C12DC162FE5@livecode.com>
References: <17341127-436F-48B8-9403-50D39804E550@starfirelighting.com>
 <D9174D30-77A8-47DA-A6DA-6C12DC162FE5@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <7EBC469C-1BD9-4722-B07F-0CFBB0E30659@starfirelighting.com>

Heather.

THANK YOU. That worked.

Not that I care much, but was it Ventura or the new machine itself that required re-licensing? 

Ralph.

Thanks to you as well.

Craig

> On May 11, 2023, at 4:09 AM, Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> You probably need to switch licenses. This lesson may be helpful:
> 
> https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4072/l/1542014-i-have-a-valid-license-but-lc-says-it-is-expiring <https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4072/l/1542014-i-have-a-valid-license-but-lc-says-it-is-expiring>
> 
> If that doesn't solve it please email support :)
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On 10 May 2023, at 21:51, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> All.
>> Help
>> I got a new Mac Mini a month ago. Lovely. Working with LC on it. Lovely.
>> 
>> I tried to make a windows standalone from the same project I have for years. In the Applications Settings I cannot select the Windows pane. It is essentially disabled, and looks like it.
>> 
>> In fact, I cannot select any pane except the Mac one. The Mac standalone proceeds as usual, but there is nothing done on the Windows side.
>> 
>> I made a brand new stack. Same issue; only the Mac pane is accessible.
>> 
>> Before I put the splash stack and the mainStack on a thumb drive and reload them back on my old iMac to make an updated standalone, is it me or Ventura?
>> 
>> Craig
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From craig at starfirelighting.com  Thu May 11 09:16:53 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 09:16:53 -0400
Subject: Cannot make a standalone after upgrading to Mac Mini and Ventura
In-Reply-To: <009d01d98382$35884350$a098c9f0$@net>
References: <17341127-436F-48B8-9403-50D39804E550@starfirelighting.com>
 <009d01d98382$35884350$a098c9f0$@net>
Message-ID: <3140B589-A245-468C-8AF3-0C1373F5C5D3@starfirelighting.com>

What a GREAT community this is here on the use-list.

Craig

> On May 10, 2023, at 4:58 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I had this happen when I had more than one license. One old and a new with
> "pro". I picked the one(default) without the "pro" features and had only a
> couple of platforms. I relicensed selected "pro" and had all platforms.
> 
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
> Of Craig Newman via use-livecode
> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2023 4:51 PM
> To: How to use LiveCode
> Cc: Craig Newman
> Subject: Cannot make a standalone after upgrading to Mac Mini and Ventura
> 
> All.
> Help
> I got a new Mac Mini a month ago. Lovely. Working with LC on it. Lovely.
> 
> I tried to make a windows standalone from the same project I have for years.
> In the Applications Settings I cannot select the Windows pane. It is
> essentially disabled, and looks like it.
> 
> In fact, I cannot select any pane except the Mac one. The Mac standalone
> proceeds as usual, but there is nothing done on the Windows side.
> 
> I made a brand new stack. Same issue; only the Mac pane is accessible.
> 
> Before I put the splash stack and the mainStack on a thumb drive and reload
> them back on my old iMac to make an updated standalone, is it me or Ventura?
> 
> Craig
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Thu May 11 09:36:41 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 15:36:41 +0200
Subject: generate an Array using value for naming the keys?
Message-ID: <BBA7FF7A-B21D-48A8-8DB9-F58CF9C35D04@m-r-d.de>

Hi,

once in a while i am struggling with value(). ;) 

I have the following problem.
I need to create an array which keys are something like this

wp_aa_old
wp_cd_old
wp_ek_old
wp_aa_new
wp_cd_new

and so on.

The middle part of the key names changes and there can be about 50 different "middle parts" and there are 10 main keys (after the middle part)
_content, _text _html and so on.

So without an idea i would have to create the code to fill all values for the array keys with the middle part aa and then the code  for the middle part cd and so on.

Is there a way to use value for this. So i could just add the middle part of the key name to a variable and use that then with value() to create and file the array?

I think i have done this before, but i might be wrong.

Regards,
Matthias



From mark at livecode.com  Thu May 11 10:36:39 2023
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 15:36:39 +0100
Subject: generate an Array using value for naming the keys?
In-Reply-To: <BBA7FF7A-B21D-48A8-8DB9-F58CF9C35D04@m-r-d.de>
References: <BBA7FF7A-B21D-48A8-8DB9-F58CF9C35D04@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <aeb21813a25aca18633aa51e48b3df81@livecode.com>

On 2023-05-11 14:36, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote:
> The middle part of the key names changes and there can be about 50 
> different "middle parts" and there are 10 main keys (after the middle 
> part)
> _content, _text _html and so on.
> 
> So without an idea i would have to create the code to fill all values 
> for the array keys with the middle part aa and then the code  for the 
> middle part cd and so on.
> 
> Is there a way to use value for this. So i could just add the middle 
> part of the key name to a variable and use that then with value() to 
> create and file the array?

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you are trying to do as you mention 
using value() for something which doesn't sound like it needs it...

Array keys can be arbitrary (string-valued) expressions - i.e. they 
don't have to be literal strings:

e.g. put tFoo["wp_" & tMiddlePart & "_" & tSuffix] into 
tMiddlePartSuffixValue

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things


From klaus at major-k.de  Thu May 11 10:45:38 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 16:45:38 +0200
Subject: Different default bg color of stacks Mac/Win
Message-ID: <C16BB07E-30C5-4162-9334-4FB2519B4EE4@major-k.de>

Hi friends,

this week I have been bitten again by the fact that the default bg color 
of a stack is different on a Mac an Windows!

If you don't set the bg color of a new stack on a Mac it will be WHITE.
If you then open that stack on Windows, the bg color is a light grey. :-/

See screenshot of a stack with two OPAQUE (and white) text fields created 
on Mac and opened on Windows. Surprise, surprise...

<https://www.dropbox.com/s/n58ahwlivvzygmy/windows_grey_bg.png?dl=0>

Is this a bug or feature? 
If a bug, should I create a report for that?


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Thu May 11 10:47:55 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 16:47:55 +0200
Subject: generate an Array using value for naming the keys?
In-Reply-To: <aeb21813a25aca18633aa51e48b3df81@livecode.com>
References: <BBA7FF7A-B21D-48A8-8DB9-F58CF9C35D04@m-r-d.de>
 <aeb21813a25aca18633aa51e48b3df81@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <EBFCFDD9-C42D-43B2-8484-80E3CE9D7A81@m-r-d.de>

Mark, thank you very much!

i didn't know or remember that the key name of an array can be created directly using strings and variables

Maybe i even did that in the past, but could not remember anymore. I really thought i have solved it that time with value()  :) 

Regards,
Matthias

> Am 11.05.2023 um 16:36 schrieb Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> On 2023-05-11 14:36, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote:
>> The middle part of the key names changes and there can be about 50 different "middle parts" and there are 10 main keys (after the middle part)
>> _content, _text _html and so on.
>> So without an idea i would have to create the code to fill all values for the array keys with the middle part aa and then the code  for the middle part cd and so on.
>> Is there a way to use value for this. So i could just add the middle part of the key name to a variable and use that then with value() to create and file the array?
> 
> Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you are trying to do as you mention using value() for something which doesn't sound like it needs it...
> 
> Array keys can be arbitrary (string-valued) expressions - i.e. they don't have to be literal strings:
> 
> e.g. put tFoo["wp_" & tMiddlePart & "_" & tSuffix] into tMiddlePartSuffixValue
> 
> Warmest Regards,
> 
> Mark.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Build Amazing Things
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From mark at livecode.com  Thu May 11 10:49:32 2023
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 15:49:32 +0100
Subject: Different default bg color of stacks Mac/Win
In-Reply-To: <C16BB07E-30C5-4162-9334-4FB2519B4EE4@major-k.de>
References: <C16BB07E-30C5-4162-9334-4FB2519B4EE4@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <ea93bccd8b97891830f55534fdfe5726@livecode.com>

On 2023-05-11 15:45, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
> See screenshot of a stack with two OPAQUE (and white) text fields 
> created
> on Mac and opened on Windows. Surprise, surprise...
> 
> <https://www.dropbox.com/s/n58ahwlivvzygmy/windows_grey_bg.png?dl=0>
> 
> Is this a bug or feature?
> If a bug, should I create a report for that?

Not a bug - the default is to use 'native' themes on desktop platforms, 
and that also
influences the background color of a stack.

If you don't want that - then you need to explicitly set the background 
color.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things


From mark at livecode.com  Thu May 11 10:51:09 2023
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 15:51:09 +0100
Subject: generate an Array using value for naming the keys?
In-Reply-To: <EBFCFDD9-C42D-43B2-8484-80E3CE9D7A81@m-r-d.de>
References: <BBA7FF7A-B21D-48A8-8DB9-F58CF9C35D04@m-r-d.de>
 <aeb21813a25aca18633aa51e48b3df81@livecode.com>
 <EBFCFDD9-C42D-43B2-8484-80E3CE9D7A81@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <3833a4d0940549f977565a21e1bb2f8c@livecode.com>

On 2023-05-11 15:47, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote:
> Mark, thank you very much!
> 
> i didn't know or remember that the key name of an array can be created 
> directly using strings and variables
> 
> Maybe i even did that in the past, but could not remember anymore. I 
> really thought i have solved it that time with value()  :)

No problem - of course, I used & in my example - but when I'm doing 
stuff like that I tend to use format:

put tFoo[format("wp_%s_%s", tMiddlePart, tSuffix)] into 
tMiddlePartSuffixValue

It does the same job, but I find it more readable (as the structure of 
the string can be seen immediately without having to wade through quotes 
and ampersands :)

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things


From klaus at major-k.de  Thu May 11 10:51:31 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 16:51:31 +0200
Subject: Different default bg color of stacks Mac/Win
In-Reply-To: <ea93bccd8b97891830f55534fdfe5726@livecode.com>
References: <C16BB07E-30C5-4162-9334-4FB2519B4EE4@major-k.de>
 <ea93bccd8b97891830f55534fdfe5726@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <066BDE97-1DD9-4C1D-9042-5EE8FAC5A8C4@major-k.de>

Hi Mark,

> Am 11.05.2023 um 16:49 schrieb Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> On 2023-05-11 15:45, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>> See screenshot of a stack with two OPAQUE (and white) text fields created
>> on Mac and opened on Windows. Surprise, surprise...
>> <https://www.dropbox.com/s/n58ahwlivvzygmy/windows_grey_bg.png?dl=0>
>> Is this a bug or feature?
>> If a bug, should I create a report for that?
> 
> Not a bug - the default is to use 'native' themes on desktop platforms, and that also
> influences the background color of a stack.

aha, thanks for the quick answer. Is this documented somewhere?

> If you don't want that - then you need to explicitly set the background color.

NOW I know and will never forget! :-)

> Warmest Regards,
> 
> Mark.

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From mark at livecode.com  Thu May 11 10:54:43 2023
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 15:54:43 +0100
Subject: Different default bg color of stacks Mac/Win
In-Reply-To: <066BDE97-1DD9-4C1D-9042-5EE8FAC5A8C4@major-k.de>
References: <C16BB07E-30C5-4162-9334-4FB2519B4EE4@major-k.de>
 <ea93bccd8b97891830f55534fdfe5726@livecode.com>
 <066BDE97-1DD9-4C1D-9042-5EE8FAC5A8C4@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <725a23283633f654545cc6085db83f38@livecode.com>

On 2023-05-11 15:51, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi Mark,
> 
>> Am 11.05.2023 um 16:49 schrieb Mark Waddingham via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> On 2023-05-11 15:45, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>>> See screenshot of a stack with two OPAQUE (and white) text fields 
>>> created
>>> on Mac and opened on Windows. Surprise, surprise...
>>> <https://www.dropbox.com/s/n58ahwlivvzygmy/windows_grey_bg.png?dl=0>
>>> Is this a bug or feature?
>>> If a bug, should I create a report for that?
>> 
>> Not a bug - the default is to use 'native' themes on desktop 
>> platforms, and that also
>> influences the background color of a stack.
> 
> aha, thanks for the quick answer. Is this documented somewhere?

Yes - in the dictionary entry for the backgroundColor property of 
objects:

```
Cross-platform note: On Mac OS, OS X, and Windows systems, if the 
backgroundColor of all objects in the object hierarchy is empty, the 
background color set by the system is used.
```

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things


From klaus at major-k.de  Thu May 11 10:55:53 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 16:55:53 +0200
Subject: Different default bg color of stacks Mac/Win
In-Reply-To: <725a23283633f654545cc6085db83f38@livecode.com>
References: <C16BB07E-30C5-4162-9334-4FB2519B4EE4@major-k.de>
 <ea93bccd8b97891830f55534fdfe5726@livecode.com>
 <066BDE97-1DD9-4C1D-9042-5EE8FAC5A8C4@major-k.de>
 <725a23283633f654545cc6085db83f38@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <162DFA5D-D6C4-41E6-A521-2F691CA3DE0F@major-k.de>

Hi Mark,

> Am 11.05.2023 um 16:54 schrieb Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> On 2023-05-11 15:51, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hi Mark,
>>> Am 11.05.2023 um 16:49 schrieb Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> On 2023-05-11 15:45, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> See screenshot of a stack with two OPAQUE (and white) text fields created
>>>> on Mac and opened on Windows. Surprise, surprise...
>>>> <https://www.dropbox.com/s/n58ahwlivvzygmy/windows_grey_bg.png?dl=0>
>>>> Is this a bug or feature?
>>>> If a bug, should I create a report for that?
>>> Not a bug - the default is to use 'native' themes on desktop platforms, and that also
>>> influences the background color of a stack.
>> aha, thanks for the quick answer. Is this documented somewhere?
> 
> Yes - in the dictionary entry for the backgroundColor property of objects:
> ```
> Cross-platform note: On Mac OS, OS X, and Windows systems, if the backgroundColor of all objects in the object hierarchy is empty, the background color set by the system is used.
> ```

Aha, thank you!

> Warmest Regards,
> 
> Mark.

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From jbv at souslelogo.com  Thu May 11 10:55:28 2023
From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 10:55:28 -0400
Subject: [semi OT] mySQL question
Message-ID: <5e4347eed32d6cda59d5f7aef973c763@souslelogo.com>

Hi list,

This is a question for mySQL experts, which I am not.

I have a table of individuals.
I have another table of companies.

Many individuals have worked in more than 1 company with
different jobs descriptions.

I need to build my DB so that, with single requests, I
can get a list of either :
- all individuals who worked in a specific company with
the job description of each one
- all companies in which a specific individual has worked,
along with the job description he had in each company.

The main problem is that the tables might become huge with
the time (several Gb), so searching the tables might take
forever if not carefully built.

I guess I will need to use a third table for the job descriptions
and a combination of fulltext indexes and foreign keys
might do the trick, but my limited skills don't allow me
to find the best solution...

Any help will be much appreciated.
Thank you in advance.

jbv


From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Thu May 11 10:56:20 2023
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 10:56:20 -0400
Subject: generate an Array using value for naming the keys?
In-Reply-To: <3833a4d0940549f977565a21e1bb2f8c@livecode.com>
References: <BBA7FF7A-B21D-48A8-8DB9-F58CF9C35D04@m-r-d.de>
 <aeb21813a25aca18633aa51e48b3df81@livecode.com>
 <EBFCFDD9-C42D-43B2-8484-80E3CE9D7A81@m-r-d.de>
 <3833a4d0940549f977565a21e1bb2f8c@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <002601d98418$c28c0ca0$47a425e0$@net>

Mark,
I will start doing this. I have a headache just thinking of the last time I
had some complex keys and trying to read the code with the afore mentioned
quotes and ampersands. Learn something new every day. 

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
Of Mark Waddingham via use-livecode
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2023 10:51 AM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Mark Waddingham
Subject: Re: generate an Array using value for naming the keys?

On 2023-05-11 15:47, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote:
> Mark, thank you very much!
> 
> i didn't know or remember that the key name of an array can be created 
> directly using strings and variables
> 
> Maybe i even did that in the past, but could not remember anymore. I 
> really thought i have solved it that time with value()  :)

No problem - of course, I used & in my example - but when I'm doing stuff
like that I tend to use format:

put tFoo[format("wp_%s_%s", tMiddlePart, tSuffix)] into
tMiddlePartSuffixValue

It does the same job, but I find it more readable (as the structure of the
string can be seen immediately without having to wade through quotes and
ampersands :)

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

--
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Thu May 11 11:27:28 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 17:27:28 +0200
Subject: generate an Array using value for naming the keys?
In-Reply-To: <3833a4d0940549f977565a21e1bb2f8c@livecode.com>
References: <BBA7FF7A-B21D-48A8-8DB9-F58CF9C35D04@m-r-d.de>
 <aeb21813a25aca18633aa51e48b3df81@livecode.com>
 <EBFCFDD9-C42D-43B2-8484-80E3CE9D7A81@m-r-d.de>
 <3833a4d0940549f977565a21e1bb2f8c@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <698ADD4C-B8C1-4C88-8136-F8D3498725AA@m-r-d.de>

Thanks for this also. I will keep that in mind, but for now i will use the & syntax.

Format() is also a function i often struggle with. ;)

> Am 11.05.2023 um 16:51 schrieb Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> On 2023-05-11 15:47, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote:
>> Mark, thank you very much!
>> i didn't know or remember that the key name of an array can be created directly using strings and variables
>> Maybe i even did that in the past, but could not remember anymore. I really thought i have solved it that time with value()  :)
> 
> No problem - of course, I used & in my example - but when I'm doing stuff like that I tend to use format:
> 
> put tFoo[format("wp_%s_%s", tMiddlePart, tSuffix)] into tMiddlePartSuffixValue
> 
> It does the same job, but I find it more readable (as the structure of the string can be seen immediately without having to wade through quotes and ampersands :)
> 
> Warmest Regards,
> 
> Mark.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Build Amazing Things
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From craig at starfirelighting.com  Thu May 11 12:30:56 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 12:30:56 -0400
Subject: Am I using the best mail client?
Message-ID: <278EF17B-F6B0-411B-990D-6166A1E74568@starfirelighting.com>

Since I got real help here, and not on the forum(hmph), I am wondering if the eMail client I am using is one reason I do not prefer this venue.

I am using the native Mac “Mail’ client. Are there much better ones?

Craig

From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Thu May 11 12:40:33 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 18:40:33 +0200
Subject: Am I using the best mail client?
In-Reply-To: <278EF17B-F6B0-411B-990D-6166A1E74568@starfirelighting.com>
References: <278EF17B-F6B0-411B-990D-6166A1E74568@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <4A9C1DC8-9655-48BE-8DA9-3563FDFCE3E4@m-r-d.de>

I am using also the "normal" Mac Client w/o any problem with the use list.

I am accessing my email account using Imap protocoll and i created an email alias for the uselist and a subfolder to which the emails automatically are copied. 
So no mess in my main inbox and also a nice  and proper email folder just with Livecode use list emails.

Regards,
Matthias

> Am 11.05.2023 um 18:30 schrieb Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Since I got real help here, and not on the forum(hmph), I am wondering if the eMail client I am using is one reason I do not prefer this venue.
> 
> I am using the native Mac “Mail’ client. Are there much better ones?
> 
> Craig
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From 1anmldr1 at gmail.com  Thu May 11 13:02:31 2023
From: 1anmldr1 at gmail.com (Linda Miller)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 11:02:31 -0600
Subject: Old license etc.
Message-ID: <2C5C6A29-A93A-4FF4-A4B4-B7F2C441B0D4@gmail.com>

I have been away from coding for years. I have a LiveCode Hosting Lifetime License that, I think, I bought during one of LC’s campaigns for HTML5 to be built. 

Whatever happened with HTML5 and LC?
How can I find the “terms” that were listed for my Lifetime Hosting License? I believe that the terms are different than what you can purchase today. So, a link to today’s terms is not what I am looking for. I tried the Internet Archive but couldn’t find anything.

I know that lifetime commercial or business licenses for LC were available in the past. What are their terms? Would that license also cover XAVVI? Or, are they going to be separate products?

Linda

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu May 11 13:27:26 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 12:27:26 -0500
Subject: Am I using the best mail client?
In-Reply-To: <278EF17B-F6B0-411B-990D-6166A1E74568@starfirelighting.com>
References: <278EF17B-F6B0-411B-990D-6166A1E74568@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <1880bda7430.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

I use Thunderbird. Like Matthias, I set up a rule to move list mail into a 
subfolder where I can sort by date, author,, subject, or any other 
attribute. It supportsl threading. There are several layouts you can use 
depending on how you like to organize and view mail. You can color-code 
emails automatically on arrival, or manually if you want to mark one for 
special reasons. You can drag-drop mail from one folder to another even 
across accounts.

There are a lot of options so you can customize it however you want.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 11, 2023 11:33:31 AM Craig Newman via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Since I got real help here, and not on the forum(hmph), I am wondering if 
> the eMail client I am using is one reason I do not prefer this venue.
>
> I am using the native Mac Mail client. Are there much better ones?
>
> Craig
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From heather at livecode.com  Thu May 11 13:35:38 2023
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 18:35:38 +0100
Subject: Old license etc.
In-Reply-To: <2C5C6A29-A93A-4FF4-A4B4-B7F2C441B0D4@gmail.com>
References: <2C5C6A29-A93A-4FF4-A4B4-B7F2C441B0D4@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F95383D7-1091-4C88-BAE0-78D1CB1112F1@livecode.com>

Linda, please post your query to support at livecode.com and I'll be happy to help.

Best Regards,

Heather
Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 11 May 2023, at 18:02, Linda Miller via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I have been away from coding for years. I have a LiveCode Hosting Lifetime License that, I think, I bought during one of LC’s campaigns for HTML5 to be built. 
> 
> Whatever happened with HTML5 and LC?
> How can I find the “terms” that were listed for my Lifetime Hosting License? I believe that the terms are different than what you can purchase today. So, a link to today’s terms is not what I am looking for. I tried the Internet Archive but couldn’t find anything.
> 
> I know that lifetime commercial or business licenses for LC were available in the past. What are their terms? Would that license also cover XAVVI? Or, are they going to be separate products?
> 
> Linda
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From phil at pdslabs.net  Thu May 11 13:36:40 2023
From: phil at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 10:36:40 -0700
Subject: Am I using the best mail client?
In-Reply-To: <1880bda7430.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <278EF17B-F6B0-411B-990D-6166A1E74568@starfirelighting.com>
 <1880bda7430.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <cb11ecba-acd8-2768-170d-1fd41d280399@pdslabs.net>

Thunderbird for me as well, for all the reasons Jacque stated.

Phil Davis


On 5/11/23 10:27 AM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
> I use Thunderbird. Like Matthias, I set up a rule to move list mail 
> into a subfolder where I can sort by date, author,, subject, or any 
> other attribute. It supportsl threading. There are several layouts you 
> can use depending on how you like to organize and view mail. You can 
> color-code emails automatically on arrival, or manually if you want to 
> mark one for special reasons. You can drag-drop mail from one folder 
> to another even across accounts.
>
> There are a lot of options so you can customize it however you want.
>
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On May 11, 2023 11:33:31 AM Craig Newman via use-livecode 
> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> Since I got real help here, and not on the forum(hmph), I am 
>> wondering if the eMail client I am using is one reason I do not 
>> prefer this venue.
>>
>> I am using the native Mac Mail client. Are there much better ones?
>>
>> Craig
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

-- 
Phil Davis
(503) 307-4363



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Thu May 11 14:01:18 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 20:01:18 +0200
Subject: Old license etc.
In-Reply-To: <2C5C6A29-A93A-4FF4-A4B4-B7F2C441B0D4@gmail.com>
References: <2C5C6A29-A93A-4FF4-A4B4-B7F2C441B0D4@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6814C67D-12C4-4319-B0D4-D7C6E00E08E4@m-r-d.de>

Although Heather asked you to send your query to support I would like to chime in, as I think some of your questions are more general. ;)

I also have Livecode (aka On-Rev) lifetime hosting. This is just Webhosting but also with the possibility to use Livecode Server on that hosting account, even if you do not own a Livecode Server license or subscription.
According to the date when you've had  purchased the lifetime hosting package it includes either 100 or 50GB. That is definitely enough for hosting several web sites.;)

HTML5 is still in development and the progress which can be seen in LC 10DP4 or 5, is very promising.

Kevin stated that Xavvi is a separate product which has to be licensed separately because it's nature that it is more than a cloud service.
I think that is reasonable.
There was a Q&A yesterday about Xavvi which maybe of interest for you.
Since it is publicly available, i think it's okay if i post the Youtube link here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAHGn8PSdAA

Regards,
Matthias

> Am 11.05.2023 um 19:02 schrieb Linda Miller via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> I have been away from coding for years. I have a LiveCode Hosting Lifetime License that, I think, I bought during one of LC’s campaigns for HTML5 to be built. 
> 
> Whatever happened with HTML5 and LC?
> How can I find the “terms” that were listed for my Lifetime Hosting License? I believe that the terms are different than what you can purchase today. So, a link to today’s terms is not what I am looking for. I tried the Internet Archive but couldn’t find anything.
> 
> I know that lifetime commercial or business licenses for LC were available in the past. What are their terms? Would that license also cover XAVVI? Or, are they going to be separate products?
> 
> Linda
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Thu May 11 14:02:36 2023
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 21:02:36 +0300
Subject: Am I using the best mail client?
In-Reply-To: <cb11ecba-acd8-2768-170d-1fd41d280399@pdslabs.net>
References: <278EF17B-F6B0-411B-990D-6166A1E74568@starfirelighting.com>
 <1880bda7430.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <cb11ecba-acd8-2768-170d-1fd41d280399@pdslabs.net>
Message-ID: <CAL3fwtgWxyLSpRFv8NHPpe_5YEQsMmARvy4fMXHb0EM32_grDw@mail.gmail.com>

I use Betterbird, an improved split off from Thunderbird.

On Thu, 11 May 2023, 20:37 Phil Davis via use-livecode, <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Thunderbird for me as well, for all the reasons Jacque stated.
>
> Phil Davis
>
>
> On 5/11/23 10:27 AM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
> > I use Thunderbird. Like Matthias, I set up a rule to move list mail
> > into a subfolder where I can sort by date, author,, subject, or any
> > other attribute. It supportsl threading. There are several layouts you
> > can use depending on how you like to organize and view mail. You can
> > color-code emails automatically on arrival, or manually if you want to
> > mark one for special reasons. You can drag-drop mail from one folder
> > to another even across accounts.
> >
> > There are a lot of options so you can customize it however you want.
> >
> > --
> > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> > On May 11, 2023 11:33:31 AM Craig Newman via use-livecode
> > <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Since I got real help here, and not on the forum(hmph), I am
> >> wondering if the eMail client I am using is one reason I do not
> >> prefer this venue.
> >>
> >> I am using the native Mac “Mail’ client. Are there much better ones?
> >>
> >> Craig
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> --
> Phil Davis
> (503) 307-4363
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From craig at starfirelighting.com  Thu May 11 14:51:11 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 14:51:11 -0400
Subject: Am I using the best mail client?
In-Reply-To: <CAL3fwtgWxyLSpRFv8NHPpe_5YEQsMmARvy4fMXHb0EM32_grDw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <278EF17B-F6B0-411B-990D-6166A1E74568@starfirelighting.com>
 <1880bda7430.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <cb11ecba-acd8-2768-170d-1fd41d280399@pdslabs.net>
 <CAL3fwtgWxyLSpRFv8NHPpe_5YEQsMmARvy4fMXHb0EM32_grDw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <96AF4AFA-0DE2-46FE-BA9B-F3E4DC0DA8A1@starfirelighting.com>

Thank you all.

I will stick with the Mac client.

The reason I like the forums better is what I see as a far more helpful UI. We all know how it works.

Enough said of this.

Craig

> On May 11, 2023, at 2:02 PM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I use Betterbird, an improved split off from Thunderbird.
> 
> On Thu, 11 May 2023, 20:37 Phil Davis via use-livecode, <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Thunderbird for me as well, for all the reasons Jacque stated.
>> 
>> Phil Davis
>> 
>> 
>> On 5/11/23 10:27 AM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
>>> I use Thunderbird. Like Matthias, I set up a rule to move list mail
>>> into a subfolder where I can sort by date, author,, subject, or any
>>> other attribute. It supportsl threading. There are several layouts you
>>> can use depending on how you like to organize and view mail. You can
>>> color-code emails automatically on arrival, or manually if you want to
>>> mark one for special reasons. You can drag-drop mail from one folder
>>> to another even across accounts.
>>> 
>>> There are a lot of options so you can customize it however you want.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>> On May 11, 2023 11:33:31 AM Craig Newman via use-livecode
>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Since I got real help here, and not on the forum(hmph), I am
>>>> wondering if the eMail client I am using is one reason I do not
>>>> prefer this venue.
>>>> 
>>>> I am using the native Mac “Mail’ client. Are there much better ones?
>>>> 
>>>> Craig
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> --
>> Phil Davis
>> (503) 307-4363
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Thu May 11 15:23:35 2023
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 22:23:35 +0300
Subject: Am I using the best mail client?
In-Reply-To: <96AF4AFA-0DE2-46FE-BA9B-F3E4DC0DA8A1@starfirelighting.com>
References: <278EF17B-F6B0-411B-990D-6166A1E74568@starfirelighting.com>
 <1880bda7430.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <cb11ecba-acd8-2768-170d-1fd41d280399@pdslabs.net>
 <CAL3fwtgWxyLSpRFv8NHPpe_5YEQsMmARvy4fMXHb0EM32_grDw@mail.gmail.com>
 <96AF4AFA-0DE2-46FE-BA9B-F3E4DC0DA8A1@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <CAL3fwtjUzYavdafLg7BymVHGY7QMBhQq5YjkXzzzs_trZCLB_w@mail.gmail.com>

We could transform this thread into a quite a spat as to the advantages of
the Use-List versus the Forums, but as Thee, Thee, Thee and Me are all so
fixed in our views it would only end in verbal bloodshed it best be let
alone: Thee with They words, and Me with My pictures! Let us attempt (at
the very least) some semblance of civilised discourse by leaving the topic
untouched and, with a nod of the head, a wink, and a smile  agreeing to
disagree.

Better be like that (however Thou feelest about the Subjunctive - and the
use of quasi-Germanic capitalisation) and listen, read, and learn from each
other than come to blows over something that will tarnish our shades when,
in time to come, we are mouldering in our sepulchres.

And, as to email clients, as my Granny said (or should have if my memory is
creative), "Taste is all in the mouth."

And, remember, only a Scotsman can produce English like that, or certainly
since the death of Samuel Johnson.

Yours, aye, Richmond Mathewson.

On Thu, 11 May 2023, 21:52 Craig Newman via use-livecode, <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Thank you all.
>
> I will stick with the Mac client.
>
> The reason I like the forums better is what I see as a far more helpful
> UI. We all know how it works.
>
> Enough said of this.
>
> Craig
>
> > On May 11, 2023, at 2:02 PM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > I use Betterbird, an improved split off from Thunderbird.
> >
> > On Thu, 11 May 2023, 20:37 Phil Davis via use-livecode, <
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Thunderbird for me as well, for all the reasons Jacque stated.
> >>
> >> Phil Davis
> >>
> >>
> >> On 5/11/23 10:27 AM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
> >>> I use Thunderbird. Like Matthias, I set up a rule to move list mail
> >>> into a subfolder where I can sort by date, author,, subject, or any
> >>> other attribute. It supportsl threading. There are several layouts you
> >>> can use depending on how you like to organize and view mail. You can
> >>> color-code emails automatically on arrival, or manually if you want to
> >>> mark one for special reasons. You can drag-drop mail from one folder
> >>> to another even across accounts.
> >>>
> >>> There are a lot of options so you can customize it however you want.
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> >>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> >>> On May 11, 2023 11:33:31 AM Craig Newman via use-livecode
> >>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Since I got real help here, and not on the forum(hmph), I am
> >>>> wondering if the eMail client I am using is one reason I do not
> >>>> prefer this venue.
> >>>>
> >>>> I am using the native Mac “Mail’ client. Are there much better ones?
> >>>>
> >>>> Craig
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> use-livecode mailing list
> >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >>>> subscription preferences:
> >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> use-livecode mailing list
> >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >>> subscription preferences:
> >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>
> >> --
> >> Phil Davis
> >> (503) 307-4363
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu May 11 15:33:48 2023
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 14:33:48 -0500
Subject: [semi OT] mySQL question
In-Reply-To: <5e4347eed32d6cda59d5f7aef973c763@souslelogo.com>
References: <5e4347eed32d6cda59d5f7aef973c763@souslelogo.com>
Message-ID: <1A0F058C-04C3-4909-A6F7-530AD1E8FA59@sonsothunder.com>

I would recommend a table for People, a table for Companies, and a table for Employment that acts as a linking table between the first two. Something like (at its simplest):

people
====
id 			INT(11)
first_name	VARCHAR(255)
last_name		VARCHAR(255)


companies
=======
id			INT(11)
name		VARCHAR(255)


employment
========
id			INT(11)
person_id		INT(11)	
company_id	INT(11)
job_descrip	VARCHAR(255)


To get a list of everyone that worked at a particular company, you'd do:

	SELECT * FROM people
	INNER JOIN employment ON (people.id = employment.person_id)
	INNER JOIN companies ON (employment.company_id = companies.id)
	WHERE companies.name="XYZ, Inc."

To get a list of all companies where a person has worked, you'd do:

	SELECT * FROM companies
	INNER JOIN employment ON (companies.id = employment.company_id)
	INNER JOIN people ON (employment.person_id = people.id)
	WHERE people.first_name="John" AND people.last_name="Smith"

Make sure to index the 'id' and '_id' columns, and you can use the employment.job_descrip to hold info on the particular job an individual had at a specific company.

This is all off the top of my head, so it may need a little massaging, but you get the idea.


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Website: https://www.sonsothunder.com


> On May 11, 2023, at 9:55 AM, jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi list,
> 
> This is a question for mySQL experts, which I am not.
> 
> I have a table of individuals.
> I have another table of companies.
> 
> Many individuals have worked in more than 1 company with
> different jobs descriptions.
> 
> I need to build my DB so that, with single requests, I
> can get a list of either :
> - all individuals who worked in a specific company with
> the job description of each one
> - all companies in which a specific individual has worked,
> along with the job description he had in each company.
> 
> The main problem is that the tables might become huge with
> the time (several Gb), so searching the tables might take
> forever if not carefully built.
> 
> I guess I will need to use a third table for the job descriptions
> and a combination of fulltext indexes and foreign keys
> might do the trick, but my limited skills don't allow me
> to find the best solution...
> 
> Any help will be much appreciated.
> Thank you in advance.
> 
> jbv
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode







From jbv at souslelogo.com  Fri May 12 04:57:07 2023
From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com)
Date: Fri, 12 May 2023 04:57:07 -0400
Subject: [semi OT] mySQL question
In-Reply-To: <1A0F058C-04C3-4909-A6F7-530AD1E8FA59@sonsothunder.com>
References: <5e4347eed32d6cda59d5f7aef973c763@souslelogo.com>
 <1A0F058C-04C3-4909-A6F7-530AD1E8FA59@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <ada3709317e8b060e1558f39022dd7b1@souslelogo.com>

Hello Ken,

Thank you so much for your answer.

Your solution confirms what I had more or less in mind.
I will give it a try asap.

Best,
jbv



Le 2023-05-11 15:33, Ken Ray a crit :
> I would recommend a table for People, a table for Companies, and a
> table for Employment that acts as a linking table between the first
> two. Something like (at its simplest):
> 
> people
> ====
> id  INT(11)
> first_name VARCHAR(255)
> last_name VARCHAR(255)
> 
> companies
> =======
> id INT(11)
> name VARCHAR(255)
> 
> employment
> ========
> id INT(11)
> person_id INT(11)
> company_id INT(11)
> job_descrip VARCHAR(255)
> 
> To get a list of everyone that worked at a particular company, you'd
> do:
> 
>  SELECT * FROM people
>  INNER JOIN employment ON (people.id [1] = employment.person_id)
>  INNER JOIN companies ON (employment.company_id = companies.id [2])
>  WHERE companies.name="XYZ, Inc."
> 
> To get a list of all companies where a person has worked, you'd do:
> 
>  SELECT * FROM companies
>  INNER JOIN employment ON (companies.id [2] = employment.company_id)
>  INNER JOIN people ON (employment.person_id = people.id [1])
>  WHERE people.first_name="John" AND people.last_name="Smith"
> 
> Make sure to index the 'id' and '_id' columns, and you can use the
> employment.job_descrip to hold info on the particular job an
> individual had at a specific company.
> 
> This is all off the top of my head, so it may need a little massaging,
> but you get the idea.
> 
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Website: https://www.sonsothunder.com
> 
>> On May 11, 2023, at 9:55 AM, jbv via use-livecode
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi list,
>> 
>> This is a question for mySQL experts, which I am not.
>> 
>> I have a table of individuals.
>> I have another table of companies.
>> 
>> Many individuals have worked in more than 1 company with
>> different jobs descriptions.
>> 
>> I need to build my DB so that, with single requests, I
>> can get a list of either :
>> - all individuals who worked in a specific company with
>> the job description of each one
>> - all companies in which a specific individual has worked,
>> along with the job description he had in each company.
>> 
>> The main problem is that the tables might become huge with
>> the time (several Gb), so searching the tables might take
>> forever if not carefully built.
>> 
>> I guess I will need to use a third table for the job descriptions
>> and a combination of fulltext indexes and foreign keys
>> might do the trick, but my limited skills don't allow me
>> to find the best solution...
>> 
>> Any help will be much appreciated.
>> Thank you in advance.
>> 
>> jbv
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> 
> Links:
> ------
> [1] http://people.id
> [2] http://companies.id


From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com  Fri May 12 11:31:48 2023
From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal)
Date: Fri, 12 May 2023 17:31:48 +0200
Subject: A spinner that keeps spinning
Message-ID: <CF75A365-34B4-450E-BBEB-2EA19617F71A@gmail.com>

Just a note that an improved version of WIS_BrowserAnimation has been released:

Version 1.0.4
- More efficient CSS code handling - only CSS code needed for the chosen animations is now included
- Added the possibility to animate text, with various fonts and styles
- The html/css code is now automatically put into a custom prop of the browser, called cHTML. So if you copy the browser widget, the code is conveniently exposed in the Property Inspector, Custom props tab.

Known issues: 
- Going (back) to a card with animated browser widgets on it, while using visual effects, seems to negatively impact the loading of the widget content, at least in the web deployment (i.e. it capriciously fails to load).

Web deployed example:
https://wheninspace.com/browseranimation/
(If the new version does not appear, make sure to clear browser cache or open in a private browser window.)

Source stack:
https://github.com/wheninspace/WIS_BrowserAnimation

/Andreas

From bogdanoff at me.com  Fri May 12 12:06:07 2023
From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff)
Date: Fri, 12 May 2023 12:06:07 -0400
Subject: A spinner that keeps spinning
In-Reply-To: <CF75A365-34B4-450E-BBEB-2EA19617F71A@gmail.com>
References: <CF75A365-34B4-450E-BBEB-2EA19617F71A@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BE66C846-FBA3-4B87-8AB5-5AE086ADD823@me.com>

Andreas, thanks again!

Am I supposed to be able to copy the CSS or the widget to the clipboard and paste directly into desktop LC? I tried using Safari and Chrome, but nothing ended up in the clipboard.

Peter Bogdanoff

> On May 12, 2023, at 11:31 AM, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Just a note that an improved version of WIS_BrowserAnimation has been released:
> 
> Version 1.0.4
> - More efficient CSS code handling - only CSS code needed for the chosen animations is now included
> - Added the possibility to animate text, with various fonts and styles
> - The html/css code is now automatically put into a custom prop of the browser, called cHTML. So if you copy the browser widget, the code is conveniently exposed in the Property Inspector, Custom props tab.
> 
> Known issues: 
> - Going (back) to a card with animated browser widgets on it, while using visual effects, seems to negatively impact the loading of the widget content, at least in the web deployment (i.e. it capriciously fails to load).
> 
> Web deployed example:
> https://wheninspace.com/browseranimation/
> (If the new version does not appear, make sure to clear browser cache or open in a private browser window.)
> 
> Source stack:
> https://github.com/wheninspace/WIS_BrowserAnimation
> 
> /Andreas
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From roland.huettmann at gmail.com  Fri May 12 12:24:54 2023
From: roland.huettmann at gmail.com (R.H.)
Date: Fri, 12 May 2023 18:24:54 +0200
Subject: mySQL question party
Message-ID: <CAG1Q0g-=uw5tR+=b_W7mqUvE+taUg92S-G1KkLhHOs-SmN2m9Q@mail.gmail.com>

Look up Google for the party entity relationships diagram or schema.

A "party" is either a "person" or a "organisation" (company, org) The party
is an entity ( table) that has an id. The org or person tables have a
foreign key to the party id. It is a mutual exclusive relationship. A party
must never be both.

Through the party id you have access to org and person.

The party interacts through a role and relationship table. So party "Smith"
with the role "employee" is employed by employer party "My company Ltd."
with the role "employer".

If you need the "role" entity is something you must decide. But the
relationship table is essential. Any relationship can be created with this
many-to-many table.

These are starting steps... )

Roland

From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com  Fri May 12 13:13:02 2023
From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal)
Date: Fri, 12 May 2023 19:13:02 +0200
Subject: A spinner that keeps spinning
Message-ID: <6B8ED556-2A1F-4340-AFA6-DBAB586ED21C@gmail.com>

Peter,

Well no, the web deployment is just for show, really. It’s the LC stack that is the actual tool, that you should download from GitHub to use. From the stack you can copy the widget or the code as you prefer.

I don’t think it’s currently possible to get the content of a field in web deployment into the general clipboard of your browser/computer. But if anyone knows a method, please let me know and I’ll implement it (javascript?). I hope that when LC 10 is released as stable, it will be a default function.

Also, in the web deployment you can’t import an svg/png/jpg or use the generic color swatch, which you can when running the stack in LC. So do get the stack in order to let loose your inner animation designer… :)

/Andreas

From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri May 12 17:56:53 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 12 May 2023 21:56:53 +0000
Subject: Am I using the best mail client?
In-Reply-To: <278EF17B-F6B0-411B-990D-6166A1E74568@starfirelighting.com>
References: <278EF17B-F6B0-411B-990D-6166A1E74568@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <16098D8C-7112-456B-B528-1335FFA18020@iotecdigital.com>

I thread my mail in Apple Mail, and I also have a rule which moves incoming mail from the list into its own folder. The trouble with that is that some mail clients quote at the top of the body, and others quote below. That makes reading a long string of emails and quoted replies nearly impossible to figure out. 

There was some talk years ago about the practice of only quoting the relevant body text, and not every single reply with quote, and reply with quote of reply with quote, and every reply with quote of every reply with quote of every reply... you get the picture. After reading through 20 replies of the same quotes over and over and over all these years, well it's a miracle I have not been "committed" yet. But I do not think very many really got the memo. Still, that simple change in the way people reply to emails would relieve I think most of the pain people feel in using a list. 

Bob S


> On May 11, 2023, at 09:30, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Since I got real help here, and not on the forum(hmph), I am wondering if the eMail client I am using is one reason I do not prefer this venue.
> 
> I am using the native Mac “Mail’ client. Are there much better ones?
> 
> Craig
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri May 12 18:00:58 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 12 May 2023 22:00:58 +0000
Subject: [semi OT] mySQL question
In-Reply-To: <ada3709317e8b060e1558f39022dd7b1@souslelogo.com>
References: <5e4347eed32d6cda59d5f7aef973c763@souslelogo.com>
 <1A0F058C-04C3-4909-A6F7-530AD1E8FA59@sonsothunder.com>
 <ada3709317e8b060e1558f39022dd7b1@souslelogo.com>
Message-ID: <4E6DF4F7-CD9F-4D0A-813A-F4A4EBAA4149@iotecdigital.com>

Just as an aside, I do not bother with joins, if I can help it. If I need data from multiple tables I query each table for just the data I need, and save it in discreet arrays, 1 per table. Of course, my needs are pretty simple. I typically have one parent table (the example suggested calls them Strong Entities) and and I only query data from the "child" tables (Weak Entities) as needed. 

My use case for example is: 

Customer
	[CustomerFiles]
	Sites
		Devices
			Accessories
		{DeviceFiles]
		Service
			[ServiceDevices]
		Subnets
		[SiteContacts]
	[SiteFiles]
	Contacts
	Files

etc. (entities in brackets like SiteContacts are just contacts with the sites they are linked to in a itemized string. Contacts are not dependent on sites but ARE dependent on Customers.)

I only query for one customer at a time, then all the sites for that customer, then all the devices for the selected site, then all the accessories for the selected device. As the user selects each Strong Entity, I query for the Weak Entities as necessary. 

I like doing it this way because having discrete arrays for each entity type makes coding for me much easier, and viewing the data for each table easier. The code necessary for querying for the Weak Entities I need is done in LC Script. It's much easier to grok than a complex SQL statement. 

I understand that there are definitely use cases where joins should be employed, such as finding all the sites who no longer have a customer (something I have since coded to prevent, but not before end users managed to orphan some sites.) 

I think too often people who really understand and are adept at SQL tend to program in SQL instead of the language of the front end. To me this makes the solution much less manageable. Also, I am not that adept at SQL (and hope I never need to be.) :-)

Bob S




From dochawk at gmail.com  Fri May 12 19:53:49 2023
From: dochawk at gmail.com (doc hawk)
Date: Fri, 12 May 2023 16:53:49 -0700
Subject: Am I using the best mail client?
In-Reply-To: <16098D8C-7112-456B-B528-1335FFA18020@iotecdigital.com>
References: <278EF17B-F6B0-411B-990D-6166A1E74568@starfirelighting.com>
 <16098D8C-7112-456B-B528-1335FFA18020@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <5E8678AA-4B31-4374-804C-D3E410FAF41F@gmail.com>


bob belabored,

>There was some talk years ago about the practice of only quoting the relevant body text, and not 
>every single reply with quote, and reply with quote of reply with quote, and every reply with 
>quote of every reply with quote of every reply…

That predates this list, and for that matter the creation of NACBA, by decades.

For that matter, it predates the word “internet”, and the constant network connection.

Ancient etiquette is that it is simply rude (at best) to include entire messages, rather than trimming
to the parts to which you are replying.

And “top-posting”, placing your response before the message, was the mark of a newbie,
and treated harshly.

Which worked, until the “Eternal September” of 1993, when rather than once a year with 
new students, AOL started dumping a continual supply of newbies, faster than they could be assimilated.

[in fairness, the infrastructure in the 80s couldn’t handle the load of all that extra text—the backbone
got upgraded *to* 56k (bits/second) in the 80s!]



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri May 12 21:54:07 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 12 May 2023 20:54:07 -0500
Subject: Am I using the best mail client?
In-Reply-To: <5E8678AA-4B31-4374-804C-D3E410FAF41F@gmail.com>
References: <278EF17B-F6B0-411B-990D-6166A1E74568@starfirelighting.com>
 <16098D8C-7112-456B-B528-1335FFA18020@iotecdigital.com>
 <5E8678AA-4B31-4374-804C-D3E410FAF41F@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <18812d0b218.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

Because of how mobile email clients work, I top post when responding on my 
phone or tablet, and bottom post when I'm at the computer. But I do try to 
trim the original message regardless.

I guess you can tell where I am right now.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 12, 2023 6:56:07 PM doc hawk via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> Ancient etiquette is that it is simply rude (at best) to include entire 
> messages, rather than trimming
> to the parts to which you are replying.
>
> And top-posting, placing your response before the message, was the mark 
> of a newbie,
> and treated harshly.





From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com  Sat May 13 16:13:57 2023
From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal)
Date: Sat, 13 May 2023 22:13:57 +0200
Subject: A spinner that keeps spinning
Message-ID: <B96279F1-5123-4C36-9B2B-845A636A26EB@gmail.com>

Actually, my phrasing it that the web deployment of the browser animation tool is ”just for show” was being a bit unfair to it (I’ll blame not being a native English speaker :). 
It works very well as a web application, except for the - until now - inability to actually let you copy and use the code it produces.

Anyway, in v1.0.5 I’ve:
- Added the possibility to copy the code when running the web application (note that a urlDecode() must be done on the pasted text in LiveCode before using it)
- Added the possibility to enter an RGB value into the color field (works in the web application too)
- Made the design responsive on web too

I’m working on getting javascript to convey a clipboard content that doesn’t need urlDecoding, but at least you can extract your code from browser to LC now. 

I still recommend downloading and using the stack, though! :)

Web app: https://wheninspace.com/browseranimation/
Stack: https://github.com/wheninspace/WIS_BrowserAnimation

/Andreas

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue May 16 16:18:50 2023
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 16 May 2023 13:18:50 -0700
Subject: Looking for recent, complete Google OAuth2 example
Message-ID: <77b24fb3-ce3f-d065-7dbf-a960ea2d923b@fourthworld.com>

Anyone know of a good and *recent* example of using Monte's great OAuth2 
lib with Google's API?

I'm updating some stuff and have found that after the Big G changed 
their API in March my stuff needs revision. But the vastness of their 
docs have me poking around when I'm sure it's not a hard thing once I 
find the right example (sorta like the LC Dict: great when you already 
know what you're looking for <g>).

Side question:

tsNet is a well-crafted wrapper around the industry-standard cURL. 
Fabo.  But unless I've missed something, for all the great ways Charles 
has meticulously made scripting interfaces for cURL functionality, 
there's one thing I can't find documentation for: cURL's own syntax.

Does tsNet support cURL syntax directly, or must we convert the vast 
range of API documentation out there into LC-specific forms to use them?

I'd be done with going back and forth between LC and Postman if I could 
make a Postman-like tool right in LC.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems



From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Wed May 17 05:33:28 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 10:33:28 +0100
Subject: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor
Message-ID: <7F72B8F6-7CE3-4204-BDB2-A45E232FC78C@gmail.com>

I just watched the latest LC video showing how AI will be integrated into Xavvi/LC. https://livecode.com/xavvi/?updates/#tabbed-section <https://livecode.com/xavvi/?updates/#tabbed-section> (note: the URL is not an error, that is where the new video is parked). 

I hadn’t seen how this was going to be done before but  it’s a great UI with lot of useful options. This will completely transform how we write (and document) our code in the future. It looks like LC has give a lot of thought to this and the UI is extremely well done. If you haven’t backed the campaign so far I’d give this short 4 minute video a watch and be prepared to be blown away. 

Thanks LC. 
 

From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Wed May 17 05:50:48 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 10:50:48 +0100
Subject: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor
In-Reply-To: <7F72B8F6-7CE3-4204-BDB2-A45E232FC78C@gmail.com>
References: <7F72B8F6-7CE3-4204-BDB2-A45E232FC78C@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <210D5A3B-38C6-4FDE-B5A4-68851E64BF46@gmail.com>

Having just watched the latest campaign video (showing the integration of AI into Xavvi/LC — btw, I highly recommend giving this a watch) I have a question for LC. It’s likely that now (and perhaps for the foreseeable future) the AI will make coding and documentation errors in its recommendations. Has any thought been given as to how we capture these errors from the community (and fix them) so they can be fed back into the AI as training to improve the product? And, if such a mechanism will exist, might it also be applied to the current documentation (I’m thinking mostly of the dictionary) to improve that as well?

Thanks
Mark


> On 17 May 2023, at 10:33 am, Mark Smith <marksmithhfx at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I just watched the latest LC video showing how AI will be integrated into Xavvi/LC. https://livecode.com/xavvi/?updates/#tabbed-section <https://livecode.com/xavvi/?updates/#tabbed-section> (note: the URL is not an error, that is where the new video is parked). 
> 
> I hadn’t seen how this was going to be done before but  it’s a great UI with lot of useful options. This will completely transform how we write (and document) our code in the future. It looks like LC has give a lot of thought to this and the UI is extremely well done. If you haven’t backed the campaign so far I’d give this short 4 minute video a watch and be prepared to be blown away. 
> 
> Thanks LC. 
>  


From steven.crighton at livecode.com  Wed May 17 07:59:23 2023
From: steven.crighton at livecode.com (Steven Crighton)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 12:59:23 +0100
Subject: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor
Message-ID: <29699C9F-0787-4BB0-B092-EC3191733DE8@livecode.com>

Hi Mark

I’m really pleased to hear you enjoyed the video. What I would say is our testing so far has been extremely impressive, it was the inspiration to make that video. But you’re right, AI won’t get the script right every time and we have to handle that carefully. If the script that comes back won’t compile then Xavvi will intervene to make sure you are not actually accepting code that won’t run. However there may be instances where it supplies code that does compile but is still not what you hoped for, in the first instance we are providing an opt in to training feature where you can provide a thumbs up or thumbs down to the code you have been supplied as well as give a description on what was good or bad about it. Additionally there will always be options to accept or decline the result and try again with a slightly tweaked prompt. I hope this helps. 


From 1anmldr1 at gmail.com  Wed May 17 10:11:24 2023
From: 1anmldr1 at gmail.com (Linda Miller)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 08:11:24 -0600
Subject: XAVVI and app/code copyright
Message-ID: <406DB356-2CAF-4652-8B1C-1518F5883DD9@gmail.com>

Will code and apps be copyright protected for the developer or LiveCode Ltd? Are we 100% sure of this answer? Is there a statement declaring this?

Linda

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed May 17 12:21:58 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 11:21:58 -0500
Subject: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor
In-Reply-To: <7F72B8F6-7CE3-4204-BDB2-A45E232FC78C@gmail.com>
References: <7F72B8F6-7CE3-4204-BDB2-A45E232FC78C@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1882a84ac70.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

I want the widgets and layout functions. I had to make a form yesterday 
with lots of fields and while it isn't hard, it took 20 minutes to name 
everything and align the labels and entry fields. If Xavvi can do that in a 
few seconds it would save me time and my clients money. There's a lot of 
mindless tinkering we do that isn't script-related.

I'm hoping Xavvi will also do dynamic resizing. Even with the Magic Palette 
it's difficult.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 17, 2023 4:35:52 AM Mark Smith via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I just watched the latest LC video showing how AI will be integrated into 
> Xavvi/LC. https://livecode.com/xavvi/?updates/#tabbed-section 
> <https://livecode.com/xavvi/?updates/#tabbed-section> (note: the URL is not 
> an error, that is where the new video is parked).
>
> I hadnt seen how this was going to be done before but  its a great UI 
> with lot of useful options. This will completely transform how we write 
> (and document) our code in the future. It looks like LC has give a lot of 
> thought to this and the UI is extremely well done. If you havent backed 
> the campaign so far Id give this short 4 minute video a watch and be 
> prepared to be blown away.
>
> Thanks LC.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From paul at researchware.com  Wed May 17 12:50:06 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 12:50:06 -0400
Subject: XAVVI and app/code copyright
In-Reply-To: <406DB356-2CAF-4652-8B1C-1518F5883DD9@gmail.com>
References: <406DB356-2CAF-4652-8B1C-1518F5883DD9@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3afe8dbe-5161-1bb2-4fa5-6bb913650694@researchware.com>

Xavvi generates livecode script as directed by you. Just as livecode 
script you create now is copywritable, whether you write each lie by 
hand or copy some code from a freely available library, the finished 
application you make can be copyrighted by you. Same with Xavvi.

On 5/17/2023 10:11 AM, Linda Miller via use-livecode wrote:
> Will code and apps be copyright protected for the developer or LiveCode Ltd? Are we 100% sure of this answer? Is there a statement declaring this?
>
> Linda
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From dochawk at gmail.com  Wed May 17 13:27:09 2023
From: dochawk at gmail.com (doc hawk)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 10:27:09 -0700
Subject: XAVVI and app/code copyright
In-Reply-To: <3afe8dbe-5161-1bb2-4fa5-6bb913650694@researchware.com>
References: <406DB356-2CAF-4652-8B1C-1518F5883DD9@gmail.com>
 <3afe8dbe-5161-1bb2-4fa5-6bb913650694@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <71143118-8D18-4599-904F-7310372F4486@gmail.com>



paul provided,


>Just as livecode script you create now is copywritable, whether you write each line 
>by hand or copy some code from a freely available library, the finished application you
> make can be copyrighted by you. Same with Xavvi.

This is far less than clear user current US law . . .

It’s not my area of law, but I’ve been following case reports, and both the current status 
and what is likely to change are clear as mud.




From jiml at netrin.com  Wed May 17 14:45:04 2023
From: jiml at netrin.com (Jim Lambert)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 11:45:04 -0700
Subject: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1684339201.410197.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.1.1684339201.410197.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <AC8A3D07-0AB3-41F6-8F9D-126F74394D73@netrin.com>

Stephen wrote:
> we are providing an opt in to training feature where you can provide a thumbs up or thumbs down to the code you have been supplied as well as give a description on what was good or bad about it. 

And perhaps offer a way to accept code that we re-write so that it does work as we intended. This presumably improved code might then be used to 'educate' the LLM.

Jim Lambert


From dan at clearvisiontech.com  Wed May 17 15:37:39 2023
From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 19:37:39 +0000
Subject: Android Push Messaging issue
In-Reply-To: <AC8A3D07-0AB3-41F6-8F9D-126F74394D73@netrin.com>
References: <mailman.1.1684339201.410197.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <AC8A3D07-0AB3-41F6-8F9D-126F74394D73@netrin.com>
Message-ID: <BYAPR12MB27098E94FFB99C89DE79375EB97E9@BYAPR12MB2709.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>

I am stumped!    I have an app that where push messaging is working fine using Legacy Cloud Messaging (and LC 9.6.2).  I have setup the new Firebase Cloud Messaging and downloaded the new “google-services.json” file and included it in my updated standalone (LC 10.0.0).  The app when launched on a device is registering a valid token.   When I use the Firebase Cloud Messaging test tool (and include the token from my app) it says a message was sent successfully but was not received on the device.   Any thoughts?

FYI… Sending from our server gives the same result:  sent successfully, but no push to the physical device.

If it matters, both Firebase Cloud Messaging API and the Legacy Cloud Messaging services are enabled (because the non-Firebase app is still being used in production).

-Dan

From merakosp at gmail.com  Wed May 17 16:19:48 2023
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis m)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 23:19:48 +0300
Subject: Android Push Messaging issue
In-Reply-To: <BYAPR12MB27098E94FFB99C89DE79375EB97E9@BYAPR12MB2709.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
References: <mailman.1.1684339201.410197.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <AC8A3D07-0AB3-41F6-8F9D-126F74394D73@netrin.com>
 <BYAPR12MB27098E94FFB99C89DE79375EB97E9@BYAPR12MB2709.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq-SCDBO6MudWhFwkhh55Dw7nUUfuqDuRzkqge8M5ivmcQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Dan,

Have you seen this lesson?

https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4069/l/1473964-how-do-i-use-push-notifications-with-android-in-livecode-9-6-5

What is your code that handles the notification?

Kind regards,
Panos

On Wed, 17 May 2023, 22:38 Dan Friedman via use-livecode, <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I am stumped!    I have an app that where push messaging is working fine
> using Legacy Cloud Messaging (and LC 9.6.2).  I have setup the new Firebase
> Cloud Messaging and downloaded the new “google-services.json” file and
> included it in my updated standalone (LC 10.0.0).  The app when launched on
> a device is registering a valid token.   When I use the Firebase Cloud
> Messaging test tool (and include the token from my app) it says a message
> was sent successfully but was not received on the device.   Any thoughts?
>
> FYI… Sending from our server gives the same result:  sent successfully,
> but no push to the physical device.
>
> If it matters, both Firebase Cloud Messaging API and the Legacy Cloud
> Messaging services are enabled (because the non-Firebase app is still being
> used in production).
>
> -Dan
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Wed May 17 16:33:05 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 21:33:05 +0100
Subject: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor
In-Reply-To: <1882a84ac70.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <7F72B8F6-7CE3-4204-BDB2-A45E232FC78C@gmail.com>
 <1882a84ac70.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <2ECD89C4-764F-43DC-B8E9-9448D3B070E8@gmail.com>

Good point. I want that too. Ditto with dynamic resizing. 

> On 17 May 2023, at 5:21 pm, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I want the widgets and layout functions. I had to make a form yesterday with lots of fields and while it isn't hard, it took 20 minutes to name everything and align the labels and entry fields. If Xavvi can do that in a few seconds it would save me time and my clients money. There's a lot of mindless tinkering we do that isn't script-related.


From dan at clearvisiontech.com  Wed May 17 16:59:58 2023
From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 20:59:58 +0000
Subject: Android Push Messaging issue
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq-SCDBO6MudWhFwkhh55Dw7nUUfuqDuRzkqge8M5ivmcQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1.1684339201.410197.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <AC8A3D07-0AB3-41F6-8F9D-126F74394D73@netrin.com>
 <BYAPR12MB27098E94FFB99C89DE79375EB97E9@BYAPR12MB2709.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
 <CA+JfEq-SCDBO6MudWhFwkhh55Dw7nUUfuqDuRzkqge8M5ivmcQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BYAPR12MB27097F7C2F9748619171F097B97E9@BYAPR12MB2709.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>

Panos,

Thank you for the reply.  Yes, I have seen that lesson – many times.  I have everything in place, and I have downloaded and installed the json file.  It’s not that the app isn’t getting the push message, it’s that the device isn’t getting the message – at all!  If the app is or is not launched, the device isn’t getting the message.  Even though Google says it’s been successfully sent.

FYI… I have another app that is using FB and it’s working fine.

Thank you!
-Dan


From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> on behalf of panagiotis m via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Date: Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 1:21 PM
To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Cc: panagiotis m <merakosp at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Android Push Messaging issue
Hello Dan,

Have you seen this lesson?

https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4069/l/1473964-how-do-i-use-push-notifications-with-android-in-livecode-9-6-5

What is your code that handles the notification?

Kind regards,
Panos

On Wed, 17 May 2023, 22:38 Dan Friedman via use-livecode, <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I am stumped!    I have an app that where push messaging is working fine
> using Legacy Cloud Messaging (and LC 9.6.2).  I have setup the new Firebase
> Cloud Messaging and downloaded the new “google-services.json” file and
> included it in my updated standalone (LC 10.0.0).  The app when launched on
> a device is registering a valid token.   When I use the Firebase Cloud
> Messaging test tool (and include the token from my app) it says a message
> was sent successfully but was not received on the device.   Any thoughts?
>
> FYI… Sending from our server gives the same result:  sent successfully,
> but no push to the physical device.
>
> If it matters, both Firebase Cloud Messaging API and the Legacy Cloud
> Messaging services are enabled (because the non-Firebase app is still being
> used in production).
>
> -Dan
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au  Wed May 17 18:38:10 2023
From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 22:38:10 +0000
Subject: Can Xavvi generate sensible text output as well as code?
Message-ID: <57AAA79F-CF93-4E4F-A185-0B4865B045A4@unimelb.edu.au>

Let’s say I have a whole lot of input statements/info, some of which is generic but some of which varies according by user. Any thoughts on whether it might be possible to leverage Xavvi to process and combine that info into useful prose summaries for each user in a way that I can’t already do in Livecode - ie generative AI text rather than merging into template text)?

Terry

Sent from my iPad

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed May 17 20:26:15 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 19:26:15 -0500
Subject: Can Xavvi generate sensible text output as well as code?
In-Reply-To: <57AAA79F-CF93-4E4F-A185-0B4865B045A4@unimelb.edu.au>
References: <57AAA79F-CF93-4E4F-A185-0B4865B045A4@unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <ee3c341e-b7ee-78ef-8394-eae6d2939375@hyperactivesw.com>

On 5/17/23 5:38 PM, Terry Judd via use-livecode wrote:
> Let’s say I have a whole lot of input statements/info, some of which is generic but some of which varies according by user. Any thoughts on whether it might be possible to leverage Xavvi to process and combine that info into useful prose summaries for each user in a way that I can’t already do in Livecode - ie generative AI text rather than merging into template text)?

Well, I'd expect so since Bard can do it, if I understand what you mean. Here's my test. (Bard 
thinks it's code.)

My prompt: Make a list of 10 people with first and last names. Combine each one into this 
sentence: "Hello firstname, I'm exploring the family tree of your lastname relatives." 
Substitute "firstname" with each person's first name and substitute "lastname" with their last 
name. Return a list, one person per line.

Bard says:

Here is a list of 10 people with first and last names, along with the sentence "Hello 
firstname, I'm exploring the family tree of your lastname relatives." with each person's first 
and last name substituted in:
Code snippet

Name | Sentence
------- | --------
John Smith | Hello John, I'm exploring the family tree of your Smith relatives.
Mary Jones | Hello Mary, I'm exploring the family tree of your Jones relatives.
Michael Brown | Hello Michael, I'm exploring the family tree of your Brown relatives.
David Williams | Hello David, I'm exploring the family tree of your Williams relatives.
Susan White | Hello Susan, I'm exploring the family tree of your White relatives.
James Green | Hello James, I'm exploring the family tree of your Green relatives.
Sarah Black | Hello Sarah, I'm exploring the family tree of your Black relatives.
Peter Brown | Hello Peter, I'm exploring the family tree of your Brown relatives.
Jessica Smith | Hello Jessica, I'm exploring the family tree of your Smith relatives.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From jacques.clavel at gmail.com  Thu May 18 05:46:35 2023
From: jacques.clavel at gmail.com (Jacques Clavel)
Date: Thu, 18 May 2023 11:46:35 +0200
Subject: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor
In-Reply-To: <29699C9F-0787-4BB0-B092-EC3191733DE8@livecode.com>
References: <29699C9F-0787-4BB0-B092-EC3191733DE8@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <CALD5CnjV9ui5TjH=oZrVhTqSnahT+tWCPfxKUC_WVM9orLOQjw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all and Steven,

I had pledged a few days ago to "Xavi Business 1 year" (499$) and now try
to extend it to "Xavi Business 2 Years" (999$).
But there is no option where I pay 500$ only to upgrade my pledge.
Please, how to do that ?
Jacques CLAVEL

Le mer. 17 mai 2023 à 14:00, Steven Crighton via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> a écrit :

> Hi Mark
>
> I’m really pleased to hear you enjoyed the video. What I would say is our
> testing so far has been extremely impressive, it was the inspiration to
> make that video. But you’re right, AI won’t get the script right every time
> and we have to handle that carefully. If the script that comes back won’t
> compile then Xavvi will intervene to make sure you are not actually
> accepting code that won’t run. However there may be instances where it
> supplies code that does compile but is still not what you hoped for, in the
> first instance we are providing an opt in to training feature where you can
> provide a thumbs up or thumbs down to the code you have been supplied as
> well as give a description on what was good or bad about it. Additionally
> there will always be options to accept or decline the result and try again
> with a slightly tweaked prompt. I hope this helps.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
Jacques Clavel

From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Thu May 18 06:38:04 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe)
Date: Thu, 18 May 2023 12:38:04 +0200
Subject: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor
In-Reply-To: <CALD5CnjV9ui5TjH=oZrVhTqSnahT+tWCPfxKUC_WVM9orLOQjw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALD5CnjV9ui5TjH=oZrVhTqSnahT+tWCPfxKUC_WVM9orLOQjw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1F293046-FDFF-4EA8-BAAA-4A8EACC6279B@m-r-d.de>

I did the same a few days ago. ;)
Heather told me to purchase a2nd 2 year (now 10  months) and she would take care that it would be combined  to 2 years. 



Von meinem iPhone gesendet

> Am 18.05.2023 um 11:48 schrieb Jacques Clavel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi all and Steven,
> 
> I had pledged a few days ago to "Xavi Business 1 year" (499$) and now try
> to extend it to "Xavi Business 2 Years" (999$).
> But there is no option where I pay 500$ only to upgrade my pledge.
> Please, how to do that ?
> Jacques CLAVEL
> 
>> Le mer. 17 mai 2023 à 14:00, Steven Crighton via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> a écrit :
>> 
>> Hi Mark
>> 
>> I’m really pleased to hear you enjoyed the video. What I would say is our
>> testing so far has been extremely impressive, it was the inspiration to
>> make that video. But you’re right, AI won’t get the script right every time
>> and we have to handle that carefully. If the script that comes back won’t
>> compile then Xavvi will intervene to make sure you are not actually
>> accepting code that won’t run. However there may be instances where it
>> supplies code that does compile but is still not what you hoped for, in the
>> first instance we are providing an opt in to training feature where you can
>> provide a thumbs up or thumbs down to the code you have been supplied as
>> well as give a description on what was good or bad about it. Additionally
>> there will always be options to accept or decline the result and try again
>> with a slightly tweaked prompt. I hope this helps.
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Jacques Clavel
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From craig at starfirelighting.com  Thu May 18 09:25:55 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Thu, 18 May 2023 09:25:55 -0400
Subject: Can Xavvi generate sensible text output as well as code?
In-Reply-To: <ee3c341e-b7ee-78ef-8394-eae6d2939375@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <57AAA79F-CF93-4E4F-A185-0B4865B045A4@unimelb.edu.au>
 <ee3c341e-b7ee-78ef-8394-eae6d2939375@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <781EF3DD-156E-4E1B-B112-E8CEC2E4F452@starfirelighting.com>

In Jacque’s “test” AI first had to create a list of ten “people”, garnered, I assume, from research into our planet’s knowledge base. It knew what a “name” should be. That is cool.

That list could have been a list of actual humans, derived from, say, the staff of a particular bank. 

If the list alone was in hand, it would take just a handful of LC code to create the string associated with each name.

How to integrate the AI part with the LC part? Again, one could acquire just the list, and then let LC generate the output string. But at least all would end up in a handler, fully in LC, where I assume additional “real” work would then be done.

What I mean is, how can one best integrate the “outside” AI work with the “inside” LC work? That is what I have to get my head around.

 Lurking in the background,I do not want AI to put LC out to pasture. I did that once with HC, and still have not gotten over it.

Craig

> On May 17, 2023, at 8:26 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> On 5/17/23 5:38 PM, Terry Judd via use-livecode wrote:
>> Let’s say I have a whole lot of input statements/info, some of which is generic but some of which varies according by user. Any thoughts on whether it might be possible to leverage Xavvi to process and combine that info into useful prose summaries for each user in a way that I can’t already do in Livecode - ie generative AI text rather than merging into template text)?
> 
> Well, I'd expect so since Bard can do it, if I understand what you mean. Here's my test. (Bard thinks it's code.)
> 
> My prompt: Make a list of 10 people with first and last names. Combine each one into this sentence: "Hello firstname, I'm exploring the family tree of your lastname relatives." Substitute "firstname" with each person's first name and substitute "lastname" with their last name. Return a list, one person per line.
> 
> Bard says:
> 
> Here is a list of 10 people with first and last names, along with the sentence "Hello firstname, I'm exploring the family tree of your lastname relatives." with each person's first and last name substituted in:
> Code snippet
> 
> Name | Sentence
> ------- | --------
> John Smith | Hello John, I'm exploring the family tree of your Smith relatives.
> Mary Jones | Hello Mary, I'm exploring the family tree of your Jones relatives.
> Michael Brown | Hello Michael, I'm exploring the family tree of your Brown relatives.
> David Williams | Hello David, I'm exploring the family tree of your Williams relatives.
> Susan White | Hello Susan, I'm exploring the family tree of your White relatives.
> James Green | Hello James, I'm exploring the family tree of your Green relatives.
> Sarah Black | Hello Sarah, I'm exploring the family tree of your Black relatives.
> Peter Brown | Hello Peter, I'm exploring the family tree of your Brown relatives.
> Jessica Smith | Hello Jessica, I'm exploring the family tree of your Smith relatives.
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Thu May 18 10:09:20 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Thu, 18 May 2023 15:09:20 +0100
Subject: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor
In-Reply-To: <29699C9F-0787-4BB0-B092-EC3191733DE8@livecode.com>
References: <29699C9F-0787-4BB0-B092-EC3191733DE8@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <5DD34B7D-C7A9-4512-A59B-989562B873C8@gmail.com>

Thanks Steven,

That sounds like a sensible approach. 

Mark

> On 17 May 2023, at 12:59 pm, Steven Crighton via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Mark
> 
> I’m really pleased to hear you enjoyed the video. What I would say is our testing so far has been extremely impressive, it was the inspiration to make that video. But you’re right, AI won’t get the script right every time and we have to handle that carefully. If the script that comes back won’t compile then Xavvi will intervene to make sure you are not actually accepting code that won’t run. However there may be instances where it supplies code that does compile but is still not what you hoped for, in the first instance we are providing an opt in to training feature where you can provide a thumbs up or thumbs down to the code you have been supplied as well as give a description on what was good or bad about it. Additionally there will always be options to accept or decline the result and try again with a slightly tweaked prompt. I hope this helps. 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu May 18 13:22:37 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 18 May 2023 12:22:37 -0500
Subject: Can Xavvi generate sensible text output as well as code?
In-Reply-To: <781EF3DD-156E-4E1B-B112-E8CEC2E4F452@starfirelighting.com>
References: <57AAA79F-CF93-4E4F-A185-0B4865B045A4@unimelb.edu.au>
 <ee3c341e-b7ee-78ef-8394-eae6d2939375@hyperactivesw.com>
 <781EF3DD-156E-4E1B-B112-E8CEC2E4F452@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <1882fe28f48.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

If you watch some of the videos posted on the challenge page it becomes 
clearer. LC AI will be integrated into the script editor and will create 
handlers as expected. You can accept, reject, or revise its output. LC AI 
knows all about what's available and how to use it. Bard, on other hand, 
doesn't know LC and can only offer generic output though it does know 20 
other coding languages.

Xavvi is built on top of LC and the team has reassured us many times that 
the LC we know is not going away. There will be regular updates and you are 
free to ignore the AI if you want. But given what I've seen so far, I'm 
betting most of us will use at least some of its features to save time or 
to expedite certain tasks.

We made the challenge! I'm happy.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 18, 2023 8:28:42 AM Craig Newman via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> How to integrate the AI part with the LC part? Again, one could acquire 
> just the list, and then let LC generate the output string. But at least all 
> would end up in a handler, fully in LC, where I assume additional real 
> work would then be done.
>
> What I mean is, how can one best integrate the outside AI work with the 
> inside LC work? That is what I have to get my head around.
>
> Lurking in the background,I do not want AI to put LC out to pasture. I did 
> that once with HC, and still have not gotten over it.





From harrison at all-auctions.com  Thu May 18 14:27:36 2023
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com)
Date: Thu, 18 May 2023 14:27:36 -0400
Subject: Can Xavvi generate sensible text output as well as code?
In-Reply-To: <781EF3DD-156E-4E1B-B112-E8CEC2E4F452@starfirelighting.com>
References: <57AAA79F-CF93-4E4F-A185-0B4865B045A4@unimelb.edu.au>
 <ee3c341e-b7ee-78ef-8394-eae6d2939375@hyperactivesw.com>
 <781EF3DD-156E-4E1B-B112-E8CEC2E4F452@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <D3ED0AC2-3D57-4F8A-B8DE-D0325B04D303@all-auctions.com>

I used ChatGPT to generate some test data for me.

It took several tries before it was able to give me
a dozen lines of useable data.  

I told it to separate each item with a comma and 
each line with a carriage return.  

Then I just copied and pasted the data into a 
spreadsheet program, created a .csv file from it, 
and imported into my postgresql database that 
my LiveCode server uses.

In your case, you could just copy and paste
the data into an LC text field or table.

Enjoy your day!

Rick

> On May 18, 2023, at 9:25 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> In Jacque’s “test” AI first had to create a list of ten “people”, garnered, I assume, from research into our planet’s knowledge base. It knew what a “name” should be. That is cool.
> 
> That list could have been a list of actual humans, derived from, say, the staff of a particular bank. 
> 
> If the list alone was in hand, it would take just a handful of LC code to create the string associated with each name.
> 
> How to integrate the AI part with the LC part? Again, one could acquire just the list, and then let LC generate the output string. But at least all would end up in a handler, fully in LC, where I assume additional “real” work would then be done.
> 
> What I mean is, how can one best integrate the “outside” AI work with the “inside” LC work? That is what I have to get my head around.
> 
> Lurking in the background,I do not want AI to put LC out to pasture. I did that once with HC, and still have not gotten over it.
> 
> Craig
> 
>> On May 17, 2023, at 8:26 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> On 5/17/23 5:38 PM, Terry Judd via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Let’s say I have a whole lot of input statements/info, some of which is generic but some of which varies according by user. Any thoughts on whether it might be possible to leverage Xavvi to process and combine that info into useful prose summaries for each user in a way that I can’t already do in Livecode - ie generative AI text rather than merging into template text)?
>> 
>> Well, I'd expect so since Bard can do it, if I understand what you mean. Here's my test. (Bard thinks it's code.)
>> 
>> My prompt: Make a list of 10 people with first and last names. Combine each one into this sentence: "Hello firstname, I'm exploring the family tree of your lastname relatives." Substitute "firstname" with each person's first name and substitute "lastname" with their last name. Return a list, one person per line.
>> 
>> Bard says:
>> 
>> Here is a list of 10 people with first and last names, along with the sentence "Hello firstname, I'm exploring the family tree of your lastname relatives." with each person's first and last name substituted in:
>> Code snippet
>> 
>> Name | Sentence
>> ------- | --------
>> John Smith | Hello John, I'm exploring the family tree of your Smith relatives.
>> Mary Jones | Hello Mary, I'm exploring the family tree of your Jones relatives.
>> Michael Brown | Hello Michael, I'm exploring the family tree of your Brown relatives.
>> David Williams | Hello David, I'm exploring the family tree of your Williams relatives.
>> Susan White | Hello Susan, I'm exploring the family tree of your White relatives.
>> James Green | Hello James, I'm exploring the family tree of your Green relatives.
>> Sarah Black | Hello Sarah, I'm exploring the family tree of your Black relatives.
>> Peter Brown | Hello Peter, I'm exploring the family tree of your Brown relatives.
>> Jessica Smith | Hello Jessica, I'm exploring the family tree of your Smith relatives.
>> 
>> -- 
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From paul at researchware.com  Thu May 18 15:41:56 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Thu, 18 May 2023 15:41:56 -0400
Subject: Livecode enhancements
Message-ID: <3450c4f1-ec99-1e4a-4229-c6139c14f9cc@researchware.com>

I ran into another time today where having the ability to define data 
structures (or templates) in Livecode would be a significant enhancement 
(for me at least) to the language.

I see these 2 enhancement requests that cover defining data 
structures/templates, although they are suggesting different things:

https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=4183
and
https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=9033

I may have missed some other enhancement for the same or similar 
feature. If you know of one, please let me know. I realize most work on 
livecode enhancements will be to support Xavvi and Livecode on the web 
and the things already planned for LC10 and 11, but someday, I really 
like to see a way to define a data structure and make instances of it in LC.




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu May 18 17:14:52 2023
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 18 May 2023 14:14:52 -0700
Subject: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor
In-Reply-To: <1882a84ac70.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <1882a84ac70.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <dcbbc157-edb8-42c8-3f14-e32d4e14db54@fourthworld.com>

J. Landman Gay wrote:

 > I had to make a form yesterday with lots of fields and while it isn't
 > hard, it took 20 minutes to name everything and align the labels and
 > entry fields.

If you need to do that again:

http://fourthworld.net/lc/4W_FormMaker.rev

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu May 18 17:51:08 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 18 May 2023 16:51:08 -0500
Subject: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor
In-Reply-To: <dcbbc157-edb8-42c8-3f14-e32d4e14db54@fourthworld.com>
References: <1882a84ac70.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <dcbbc157-edb8-42c8-3f14-e32d4e14db54@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <d87405bd-bba4-73ed-34b9-5dba36414396@hyperactivesw.com>

On 5/18/23 4:14 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
> J. Landman Gay wrote:
> 
>  > I had to make a form yesterday with lots of fields and while it isn't
>  > hard, it took 20 minutes to name everything and align the labels and
>  > entry fields.
> 
> If you need to do that again:
> 
> http://fourthworld.net/lc/4W_FormMaker.rev
> 

Cool. That does help with alignment and field creation. It would still need some tinkering to 
get the sizes and properties right but it's a quick start.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au  Thu May 18 19:47:38 2023
From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd)
Date: Thu, 18 May 2023 23:47:38 +0000
Subject: Can Xavvi generate sensible text output as well as code?
In-Reply-To: <1882fe28f48.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <57AAA79F-CF93-4E4F-A185-0B4865B045A4@unimelb.edu.au>
 <ee3c341e-b7ee-78ef-8394-eae6d2939375@hyperactivesw.com>
 <781EF3DD-156E-4E1B-B112-E8CEC2E4F452@starfirelighting.com>
 <1882fe28f48.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <ME3PR01MB80827A7E152B73486FC3A417B77F9@ME3PR01MB8082.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>

My day to day work is in medical education – and assessment specifically. I’m interested in using LLMs to (1) help generate assessment items (well draft versions of them at least) and (2) individualised descriptive feedback based on assessment performance.

But, rather than trying to get LC/Xavvi to do it all I think I’ll likely end up using LC draw on the relevant data to construct an appropriate query, passing that to the LLM (ChatGPT, BioMedLM or whatever) via API to generate and return the response, and then having LC deal with it from there (e.g. upload to assessment item bank for further work; assemble and distribute feedback report).

A few hours yesterday spent crafting and refining inputs and queries suggests that’s all entirely possible.

Should be fun!

> How to integrate the AI part with the LC part? Again, one could acquire
> just the list, and then let LC generate the output string. But at least all
> would end up in a handler, fully in LC, where I assume additional “real”
> work would then be done.
>
> What I mean is, how can one best integrate the “outside” AI work with the
> “inside” LC work? That is what I have to get my head around.
>
> Lurking in the background,I do not want AI to put LC out to pasture. I did
> that once with HC, and still have not gotten over it.

From 1anmldr1 at gmail.com  Thu May 18 23:19:54 2023
From: 1anmldr1 at gmail.com (Linda Miller)
Date: Thu, 18 May 2023 21:19:54 -0600
Subject: XAVVI and app/code copyright
Message-ID: <62089657-1CE4-41EB-91BC-92E78778AB66@gmail.com>

All that it would take is a simple statement from LC ltd to clear it up.

But, I am not really worried about it. I am just curious.

Linda


From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Fri May 19 05:28:24 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Fri, 19 May 2023 10:28:24 +0100
Subject: Can Xavvi generate sensible text output as well as code?
In-Reply-To: <1882fe28f48.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <57AAA79F-CF93-4E4F-A185-0B4865B045A4@unimelb.edu.au>
 <ee3c341e-b7ee-78ef-8394-eae6d2939375@hyperactivesw.com>
 <781EF3DD-156E-4E1B-B112-E8CEC2E4F452@starfirelighting.com>
 <1882fe28f48.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <FECA569B-865A-433D-BBA3-50A4326F90D8@gmail.com>

Jacque, well said. And I am also happy. It is a giant step forward for the platform (especially when you add in the other new capabilities). Congrats to everyone who contributed, and to Kevin and all the LC team. We made it happen. 

> On 18 May 2023, at 6:22 pm, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> If you watch some of the videos posted on the challenge page it becomes clearer. LC AI will be integrated into the script editor and will create handlers as expected. You can accept, reject, or revise its output. LC AI knows all about what's available and how to use it. Bard, on other hand, doesn't know LC and can only offer generic output though it does know 20 other coding languages.
> 
> Xavvi is built on top of LC and the team has reassured us many times that the LC we know is not going away. There will be regular updates and you are free to ignore the AI if you want. But given what I've seen so far, I'm betting most of us will use at least some of its features to save time or to expedite certain tasks.
> 
> We made the challenge! I'm happy.
> 
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On May 18, 2023 8:28:42 AM Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> How to integrate the AI part with the LC part? Again, one could acquire just the list, and then let LC generate the output string. But at least all would end up in a handler, fully in LC, where I assume additional “real” work would then be done.
>> 
>> What I mean is, how can one best integrate the “outside” AI work with the “inside” LC work? That is what I have to get my head around.
>> 
>> Lurking in the background,I do not want AI to put LC out to pasture. I did that once with HC, and still have not gotten over it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Fri May 19 05:33:50 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Fri, 19 May 2023 10:33:50 +0100
Subject: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor
In-Reply-To: <dcbbc157-edb8-42c8-3f14-e32d4e14db54@fourthworld.com>
References: <1882a84ac70.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <dcbbc157-edb8-42c8-3f14-e32d4e14db54@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <EC712A5C-4123-4301-87D6-5EECCA4F8D79@gmail.com>

Hi Richard, do you have a short introduction to FormMaker?

> On 18 May 2023, at 10:14 pm, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> If you need to do that again:
> 
> http://fourthworld.net/lc/4W_FormMaker.rev <http://fourthworld.net/lc/4W_FormMaker.rev>


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri May 19 11:51:53 2023
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 19 May 2023 08:51:53 -0700
Subject: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor
In-Reply-To: <EC712A5C-4123-4301-87D6-5EECCA4F8D79@gmail.com>
References: <EC712A5C-4123-4301-87D6-5EECCA4F8D79@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <eaed4b26-788e-ccbc-b133-fb6a68a7d889@fourthworld.com>

Mark Smith wrote:

 > On 18 May 2023, at 10:14 pm, Richard Gaskin wrote:
 >
 >> If you need to do that again:
 >> http://fourthworld.net/lc/4W_FormMaker.rev
 >
 > Hi Richard, do you have a short introduction to FormMaker?

"It makes forms." :)

I have a large number of simple tools (a GB by now?) I've made to help 
with things I've worked on over the years. They're not like products or 
anything, just simple stuff to get a job done.

In this case, it reduces the steps needed to make a simple text entry 
form down to the one thing that will always require variance: the names 
of the fields.  Type those in the field provided, click a button, and it 
creates a label and entry field for each line you'd entered, all inside 
a group so you can easily handle appearance things like text font and 
size, and script binding by looping through all members of the group (I 
tend to populate sets of fields from arrays, with field names matching 
keys so one simple handler gives me binding everywhere quickly without 
having to think about it).

Having a good GUI layout tool like LC valuable.
Having it scriptable to automate common tasks is invaluable.


Some day I'll get around to doing a writeup on a layout construction 
metalanguage I was working on a while back to extend layout automation 
in ways that provide the most construction with the least typing. Maybe 
that'll be a good kickoff for the radically-reimagined 
LiveCodeJournal.com in the works...

--
Richard Gaskin
Fourth World Systems


From dochawk at gmail.com  Fri May 19 15:21:38 2023
From: dochawk at gmail.com (doc hawk)
Date: Fri, 19 May 2023 12:21:38 -0700
Subject: XAVVI and app/code copyright
In-Reply-To: <62089657-1CE4-41EB-91BC-92E78778AB66@gmail.com>
References: <62089657-1CE4-41EB-91BC-92E78778AB66@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EFE02ECC-0A51-496C-94FB-08CC9DB02729@gmail.com>

I’m saying that in the US, it isn’t clear *that* there would be copyright protection for what the AI generated. The current caselaw for patents is that a machine can’t be a creator—but patent and copyright function differently (although I ultimately would expect the same answer for that particular question).


The changes made to the AI output would belong to the person that made them, regardless of the other answers.

But suppose that the AI output is subject to copyright.  If you took that, and changed it, and then someone asked the same or similar question, getting similar code from the AI, that wouldn’t be "derived from” your output from the same question, and thus would be separately eligible for copyright by that person.

Merely being identical is *not* a violation of copyright!

From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Sat May 20 09:22:34 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Sat, 20 May 2023 09:22:34 -0400
Subject: websockets...anything?
Message-ID: <CADCoycNx0_5Lj7eFfDDZmLoKQe=O_T13UO0R7jijUi87K-t6AA@mail.gmail.com>

any news from anyone on lc+websockets?

-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Tue May 23 10:48:19 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Tue, 23 May 2023 15:48:19 +0100
Subject: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor
In-Reply-To: <eaed4b26-788e-ccbc-b133-fb6a68a7d889@fourthworld.com>
References: <EC712A5C-4123-4301-87D6-5EECCA4F8D79@gmail.com>
 <eaed4b26-788e-ccbc-b133-fb6a68a7d889@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <C875D04B-F61A-47F2-8820-D369FED78726@gmail.com>

Thanks Richard. Worked as advertised, and nicely done. For a simple little utility I could see that it could save an enormous amount of time if you had a lot of forms to create. Actually I am working on a demo of sorts showing how to do no-code integration of SQL tables into LC and this little widget could come in very handy as a “quick form” builder. I may get back to you on that. 

> On 19 May 2023, at 4:51 pm, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Some day I'll get around to doing a writeup on a layout construction metalanguage I was working on a while back to extend layout automation in ways that provide the most construction with the least typing. Maybe that'll be a good kickoff for the radically-reimagined LiveCodeJournal.com <http://livecodejournal.com/> in the works...
> 


From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Tue May 23 15:31:21 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Tue, 23 May 2023 15:31:21 -0400
Subject: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor
In-Reply-To: <C875D04B-F61A-47F2-8820-D369FED78726@gmail.com>
References: <EC712A5C-4123-4301-87D6-5EECCA4F8D79@gmail.com>
 <eaed4b26-788e-ccbc-b133-fb6a68a7d889@fourthworld.com>
 <C875D04B-F61A-47F2-8820-D369FED78726@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycOGY4DryEkhQYWoEm1w=UrZ3GYXg-jE19EdVKP1VLSySA@mail.gmail.com>

didn't the old db library (which is still included with LC, and still
gets built into every standalone, whether you choose to include it or
not) have the ability to build forms from db's?

On Tue, May 23, 2023 at 10:49 AM Mark Smith via use-livecode
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks Richard. Worked as advertised, and nicely done. For a simple little utility I could see that it could save an enormous amount of time if you had a lot of forms to create. Actually I am working on a demo of sorts showing how to do no-code integration of SQL tables into LC and this little widget could come in very handy as a “quick form” builder. I may get back to you on that.
>
> > On 19 May 2023, at 4:51 pm, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Some day I'll get around to doing a writeup on a layout construction metalanguage I was working on a while back to extend layout automation in ways that provide the most construction with the least typing. Maybe that'll be a good kickoff for the radically-reimagined LiveCodeJournal.com <http://livecodejournal.com/> in the works...
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."


From tom at makeshyft.com  Tue May 23 20:24:17 2023
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Tue, 23 May 2023 20:24:17 -0400
Subject: websockets...anything?
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycNx0_5Lj7eFfDDZmLoKQe=O_T13UO0R7jijUi87K-t6AA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADCoycNx0_5Lj7eFfDDZmLoKQe=O_T13UO0R7jijUi87K-t6AA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPzQJL+6CRw1QB0x2QZ4xUsok_B7DCB6cQqdJvw=hpTDpNdhhA@mail.gmail.com>

Nope.

I'm wondering how long it would take to go look at specs and implement it.
Anyone in for a team effort? and we get it done without waiting for someone
else to do it?
Or is there a reason why it hasn't been done in all the years that web
sockets have been around?
Shrug.

On Sat, May 20, 2023 at 9:24 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> any news from anyone on lc+websockets?
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>    and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From tom at makeshyft.com  Tue May 23 20:26:43 2023
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Tue, 23 May 2023 20:26:43 -0400
Subject: websockets...anything?
In-Reply-To: <CAPzQJL+6CRw1QB0x2QZ4xUsok_B7DCB6cQqdJvw=hpTDpNdhhA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADCoycNx0_5Lj7eFfDDZmLoKQe=O_T13UO0R7jijUi87K-t6AA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPzQJL+6CRw1QB0x2QZ4xUsok_B7DCB6cQqdJvw=hpTDpNdhhA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPzQJLJKb9vAWWox5hyCPjPuE9MNBHxF2=CevMGnXX0FfYDsOA@mail.gmail.com>

Check out this forum post.

https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?t=37672&p=221502

On Tue, May 23, 2023 at 8:24 PM Tom Glod <tom at makeshyft.com> wrote:

> Nope.
>
> I'm wondering how long it would take to go look at specs and implement it.
> Anyone in for a team effort? and we get it done without waiting for
> someone else to do it?
> Or is there a reason why it hasn't been done in all the years that web
> sockets have been around?
> Shrug.
>
> On Sat, May 20, 2023 at 9:24 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> any news from anyone on lc+websockets?
>>
>> --
>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
>> On the second day, God created the oceans.
>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>>    and did a little diving.
>> And God said, "This is good."
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>

From daniel at digitalfauna.io  Wed May 24 05:42:19 2023
From: daniel at digitalfauna.io (Dan Brown)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2023 10:42:19 +0100
Subject: websockets...anything?
In-Reply-To: <CAPzQJLJKb9vAWWox5hyCPjPuE9MNBHxF2=CevMGnXX0FfYDsOA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADCoycNx0_5Lj7eFfDDZmLoKQe=O_T13UO0R7jijUi87K-t6AA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPzQJL+6CRw1QB0x2QZ4xUsok_B7DCB6cQqdJvw=hpTDpNdhhA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPzQJLJKb9vAWWox5hyCPjPuE9MNBHxF2=CevMGnXX0FfYDsOA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAC+qw6ik=iHcwYzOmNrR4hFrcRvSDsQmDc-txxG5MVPmGFJ5pQ@mail.gmail.com>

You could use STDIN / STDOUT from livecode to communicate with this
websocket server

https://github.com/joewalnes/websocketd

On Wed, 24 May 2023, 01:28 Tom Glod via use-livecode, <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Check out this forum post.
>
> https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?t=37672&p=221502
>
> On Tue, May 23, 2023 at 8:24 PM Tom Glod <tom at makeshyft.com> wrote:
>
> > Nope.
> >
> > I'm wondering how long it would take to go look at specs and implement
> it.
> > Anyone in for a team effort? and we get it done without waiting for
> > someone else to do it?
> > Or is there a reason why it hasn't been done in all the years that web
> > sockets have been around?
> > Shrug.
> >
> > On Sat, May 20, 2023 at 9:24 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >> any news from anyone on lc+websockets?
> >>
> >> --
> >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> >> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
> >>    and did a little diving.
> >> And God said, "This is good."
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Wed May 24 08:48:54 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2023 08:48:54 -0400
Subject: websockets...anything?
In-Reply-To: <CAC+qw6ik=iHcwYzOmNrR4hFrcRvSDsQmDc-txxG5MVPmGFJ5pQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADCoycNx0_5Lj7eFfDDZmLoKQe=O_T13UO0R7jijUi87K-t6AA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPzQJL+6CRw1QB0x2QZ4xUsok_B7DCB6cQqdJvw=hpTDpNdhhA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPzQJLJKb9vAWWox5hyCPjPuE9MNBHxF2=CevMGnXX0FfYDsOA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAC+qw6ik=iHcwYzOmNrR4hFrcRvSDsQmDc-txxG5MVPmGFJ5pQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycNVf1AJu6jCFoEbjkHAiRxZb1xP2VxkBe0ur6jY1C1cTQ@mail.gmail.com>

yeah, i'm off the forums, permanently. i dumped my account, and i'm
not going back.
anyway, i'm not opposed to teaming up. i started reading the RFC, and
then decided to ask, instead.
i also asked chatgpt to help write some code. it was not only
unhelpful, it made up crap that was complete BS. then it tried to
point me to "mergWebSocket", until I called BS, again, and it finally
said "oh, sorry, no bueño"

On Wed, May 24, 2023 at 5:43 AM Dan Brown via use-livecode
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> You could use STDIN / STDOUT from livecode to communicate with this
> websocket server
>
> https://github.com/joewalnes/websocketd
>
> On Wed, 24 May 2023, 01:28 Tom Glod via use-livecode, <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > Check out this forum post.
> >
> > https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?t=37672&p=221502
> >
> > On Tue, May 23, 2023 at 8:24 PM Tom Glod <tom at makeshyft.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Nope.
> > >
> > > I'm wondering how long it would take to go look at specs and implement
> > it.
> > > Anyone in for a team effort? and we get it done without waiting for
> > > someone else to do it?
> > > Or is there a reason why it hasn't been done in all the years that web
> > > sockets have been around?
> > > Shrug.
> > >
> > > On Sat, May 20, 2023 at 9:24 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> any news from anyone on lc+websockets?
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> > >> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> > >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
> > >>    and did a little diving.
> > >> And God said, "This is good."
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> use-livecode mailing list
> > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > >> subscription preferences:
> > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> > >>
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."


From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Wed May 24 08:50:06 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2023 08:50:06 -0400
Subject: websockets...anything?
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycNVf1AJu6jCFoEbjkHAiRxZb1xP2VxkBe0ur6jY1C1cTQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADCoycNx0_5Lj7eFfDDZmLoKQe=O_T13UO0R7jijUi87K-t6AA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPzQJL+6CRw1QB0x2QZ4xUsok_B7DCB6cQqdJvw=hpTDpNdhhA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPzQJLJKb9vAWWox5hyCPjPuE9MNBHxF2=CevMGnXX0FfYDsOA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAC+qw6ik=iHcwYzOmNrR4hFrcRvSDsQmDc-txxG5MVPmGFJ5pQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADCoycNVf1AJu6jCFoEbjkHAiRxZb1xP2VxkBe0ur6jY1C1cTQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycPPy4oGryb54VLsRP8FaVo2+nQ9itAFtR4mQ0RZ4Pum+A@mail.gmail.com>

i'm also more interested in using lc as a client on mobes than as a server.

On Wed, May 24, 2023 at 8:48 AM Mike Kerner <MikeKerner at roadrunner.com> wrote:
>
> yeah, i'm off the forums, permanently. i dumped my account, and i'm
> not going back.
> anyway, i'm not opposed to teaming up. i started reading the RFC, and
> then decided to ask, instead.
> i also asked chatgpt to help write some code. it was not only
> unhelpful, it made up crap that was complete BS. then it tried to
> point me to "mergWebSocket", until I called BS, again, and it finally
> said "oh, sorry, no bueño"
>
> On Wed, May 24, 2023 at 5:43 AM Dan Brown via use-livecode
> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > You could use STDIN / STDOUT from livecode to communicate with this
> > websocket server
> >
> > https://github.com/joewalnes/websocketd
> >
> > On Wed, 24 May 2023, 01:28 Tom Glod via use-livecode, <
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Check out this forum post.
> > >
> > > https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?t=37672&p=221502
> > >
> > > On Tue, May 23, 2023 at 8:24 PM Tom Glod <tom at makeshyft.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Nope.
> > > >
> > > > I'm wondering how long it would take to go look at specs and implement
> > > it.
> > > > Anyone in for a team effort? and we get it done without waiting for
> > > > someone else to do it?
> > > > Or is there a reason why it hasn't been done in all the years that web
> > > > sockets have been around?
> > > > Shrug.
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, May 20, 2023 at 9:24 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> any news from anyone on lc+websockets?
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> > > >> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> > > >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
> > > >>    and did a little diving.
> > > >> And God said, "This is good."
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> use-livecode mailing list
> > > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > > >> subscription preferences:
> > > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > use-livecode mailing list
> > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > > subscription preferences:
> > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>    and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."



-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."


From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Wed May 24 09:00:54 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2023 09:00:54 -0400
Subject: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycOGY4DryEkhQYWoEm1w=UrZ3GYXg-jE19EdVKP1VLSySA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <EC712A5C-4123-4301-87D6-5EECCA4F8D79@gmail.com>
 <eaed4b26-788e-ccbc-b133-fb6a68a7d889@fourthworld.com>
 <C875D04B-F61A-47F2-8820-D369FED78726@gmail.com>
 <CADCoycOGY4DryEkhQYWoEm1w=UrZ3GYXg-jE19EdVKP1VLSySA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycNTS6e212fkR8Y=QuL_76MN=HW2kYGJfXLd1KEghh3WcQ@mail.gmail.com>

interesting piece on ycombinator on chatgpt and code:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36037559

over the weekend, i was messing around with websockets, and decided to
try messing with chatgpt to build a little library to implement a
websocket client in lc.
the results were ungreat.

On Tue, May 23, 2023 at 3:31 PM Mike Kerner <MikeKerner at roadrunner.com> wrote:
>
> didn't the old db library (which is still included with LC, and still
> gets built into every standalone, whether you choose to include it or
> not) have the ability to build forms from db's?
>
> On Tue, May 23, 2023 at 10:49 AM Mark Smith via use-livecode
> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Richard. Worked as advertised, and nicely done. For a simple little utility I could see that it could save an enormous amount of time if you had a lot of forms to create. Actually I am working on a demo of sorts showing how to do no-code integration of SQL tables into LC and this little widget could come in very handy as a “quick form” builder. I may get back to you on that.
> >
> > > On 19 May 2023, at 4:51 pm, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Some day I'll get around to doing a writeup on a layout construction metalanguage I was working on a while back to extend layout automation in ways that provide the most construction with the least typing. Maybe that'll be a good kickoff for the radically-reimagined LiveCodeJournal.com <http://livecodejournal.com/> in the works...
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>    and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."



-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."


From dan at clearvisiontech.com  Wed May 24 12:55:44 2023
From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2023 16:55:44 +0000
Subject: Android Status Bar Icon
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycNTS6e212fkR8Y=QuL_76MN=HW2kYGJfXLd1KEghh3WcQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <EC712A5C-4123-4301-87D6-5EECCA4F8D79@gmail.com>
 <eaed4b26-788e-ccbc-b133-fb6a68a7d889@fourthworld.com>
 <C875D04B-F61A-47F2-8820-D369FED78726@gmail.com>
 <CADCoycOGY4DryEkhQYWoEm1w=UrZ3GYXg-jE19EdVKP1VLSySA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADCoycNTS6e212fkR8Y=QuL_76MN=HW2kYGJfXLd1KEghh3WcQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BYAPR12MB2709854CF3A56F9A2527E5BEB9419@BYAPR12MB2709.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>

Greetings!   I am seeing inconsistent results on the status bar icon on Android.  On some devices (most running Android 9), the icon that appears in a push message is a white or grey square.  I have tried using a 24x24 PNG for the Status Bar Icon and I also tried a 512x512.   Another device running Android 10, displays the image just fine (at either size).  Is there an image size that I should be using?  Or are there incompatibility with LC and Android 9?

Anyone have any insight to this issue?

-Dan

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed May 24 13:54:42 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2023 12:54:42 -0500
Subject: Android Status Bar Icon
In-Reply-To: <BYAPR12MB2709854CF3A56F9A2527E5BEB9419@BYAPR12MB2709.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
References: <EC712A5C-4123-4301-87D6-5EECCA4F8D79@gmail.com>
 <eaed4b26-788e-ccbc-b133-fb6a68a7d889@fourthworld.com>
 <C875D04B-F61A-47F2-8820-D369FED78726@gmail.com>
 <CADCoycOGY4DryEkhQYWoEm1w=UrZ3GYXg-jE19EdVKP1VLSySA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADCoycNTS6e212fkR8Y=QuL_76MN=HW2kYGJfXLd1KEghh3WcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <BYAPR12MB2709854CF3A56F9A2527E5BEB9419@BYAPR12MB2709.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <1884ee616d0.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

Try 24 x 24.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 24, 2023 11:58:37 AM Dan Friedman via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Greetings!   I am seeing inconsistent results on the status bar icon on 
> Android.  On some devices (most running Android 9), the icon that appears 
> in a push message is a white or grey square.  I have tried using a 24x24 
> PNG for the Status Bar Icon and I also tried a 512x512.   Another device 
> running Android 10, displays the image just fine (at either size).  Is 
> there an image size that I should be using?  Or are there incompatibility 
> with LC and Android 9?
>
> Anyone have any insight to this issue?
>
> -Dan
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed May 24 13:56:47 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2023 12:56:47 -0500
Subject: Android Status Bar Icon
In-Reply-To: <BYAPR12MB2709854CF3A56F9A2527E5BEB9419@BYAPR12MB2709.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
References: <EC712A5C-4123-4301-87D6-5EECCA4F8D79@gmail.com>
 <eaed4b26-788e-ccbc-b133-fb6a68a7d889@fourthworld.com>
 <C875D04B-F61A-47F2-8820-D369FED78726@gmail.com>
 <CADCoycOGY4DryEkhQYWoEm1w=UrZ3GYXg-jE19EdVKP1VLSySA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADCoycNTS6e212fkR8Y=QuL_76MN=HW2kYGJfXLd1KEghh3WcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <BYAPR12MB2709854CF3A56F9A2527E5BEB9419@BYAPR12MB2709.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <1884ee7ff18.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

Oops I see you already did a 24x24. That's the suggested size. Maybe see 
what a 16 x 16 does.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 24, 2023 11:58:37 AM Dan Friedman via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Greetings!   I am seeing inconsistent results on the status bar icon on 
> Android.  On some devices (most running Android 9), the icon that appears 
> in a push message is a white or grey square.  I have tried using a 24x24 
> PNG for the Status Bar Icon and I also tried a 512x512.   Another device 
> running Android 10, displays the image just fine (at either size).  Is 
> there an image size that I should be using?  Or are there incompatibility 
> with LC and Android 9?
>
> Anyone have any insight to this issue?
>
> -Dan
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Wed May 24 15:58:10 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2023 20:58:10 +0100
Subject: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycOGY4DryEkhQYWoEm1w=UrZ3GYXg-jE19EdVKP1VLSySA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <EC712A5C-4123-4301-87D6-5EECCA4F8D79@gmail.com>
 <eaed4b26-788e-ccbc-b133-fb6a68a7d889@fourthworld.com>
 <C875D04B-F61A-47F2-8820-D369FED78726@gmail.com>
 <CADCoycOGY4DryEkhQYWoEm1w=UrZ3GYXg-jE19EdVKP1VLSySA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A9063093-3C5B-4D23-AF7A-B643CF1F2490@gmail.com>

Hi Mike, 

Not that I’m aware of. Apart from Richard’s utility, the only other way I’ve seen used is dragging items from the tools palette. Not a terrible process as no-code is involved in doing so (so you don’t have frustrations with syntax to deal with), but as Jacque points out, if you have a lot of this to do, it can get tedious. 

Mark

> On 23 May 2023, at 8:31 pm, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> didn't the old db library (which is still included with LC, and still
> gets built into every standalone, whether you choose to include it or
> not) have the ability to build forms from db's?


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu May 25 11:04:59 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2023 15:04:59 +0000
Subject: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor
In-Reply-To: <A9063093-3C5B-4D23-AF7A-B643CF1F2490@gmail.com>
References: <EC712A5C-4123-4301-87D6-5EECCA4F8D79@gmail.com>
 <eaed4b26-788e-ccbc-b133-fb6a68a7d889@fourthworld.com>
 <C875D04B-F61A-47F2-8820-D369FED78726@gmail.com>
 <CADCoycOGY4DryEkhQYWoEm1w=UrZ3GYXg-jE19EdVKP1VLSySA@mail.gmail.com>
 <A9063093-3C5B-4D23-AF7A-B643CF1F2490@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SJ0PR02MB7533DD6A1D7C4C47E02C4060B2469@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>

I create datagrids with some properties that help me with database queries. For instance one property is the name of the table I source for the data. So I came up with the idea of popping up a menu when I right click on a datagrid, where I can select a column from the table, and then wherever I click next, it will create a field and label in a group, all named after the column wherever I click next. The fields I produce also have a property for the column name, so when I populate a form, I provide an array of the datagrid data to the handler which iterates through all the fields looking for that property, and fills the fields with data from that array. 

So while creating forms is tedious, it can be made a good deal less tedious by doing some coding on the front end. 

Bob S


-----Original Message-----
Hi Mike, 

Not that I’m aware of. Apart from Richard’s utility, the only other way I’ve seen used is dragging items from the tools palette. Not a terrible process as no-code is involved in doing so (so you don’t have frustrations with syntax to deal with), but as Jacque points out, if you have a lot of this to do, it can get tedious. 

Mark

> On 23 May 2023, at 8:31 pm, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> didn't the old db library (which is still included with LC, and still 
> gets built into every standalone, whether you choose to include it or
> not) have the ability to build forms from db's?



From klaus at major-k.de  Thu May 25 11:22:47 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2023 17:22:47 +0200
Subject: Android and USB footswitch
Message-ID: <B12CE181-3E47-4F1B-9AB1-E86191611237@major-k.de>

Hi friends,

I'm still an active musician (bass guitar) and am currently playing in four bands.

Nowadays bulky music stands on stage are OUT and tablets are IN!
So I am considering to create a little app for myself to display PDF leadsheets 
(= lyrics and chord symbols) on an Andorid tablet, which I still have to buy. :-)

There are some USB footswitches, and I would like to use one of them to browse 
through the (multipage) PDFs (next page, previous page).

Anyone knows if these switches will act like an "external keyboard", means if they 
will just send any RAWKEY that I could catch in LC? 
Or will I need something created with LCB to do so?

Thanks for any hint!

P.S.
Since PDFs are not accessible via "mobilepickmedia" are there ANY other ways to add 
some PDFs later without having to download them from some URL?


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org  Thu May 25 11:41:53 2023
From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (William Prothero)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2023 08:41:53 -0700
Subject: Android and USB footswitch
In-Reply-To: <B12CE181-3E47-4F1B-9AB1-E86191611237@major-k.de>
References: <B12CE181-3E47-4F1B-9AB1-E86191611237@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <4742739B-0701-4A46-BFF7-1C42497F5356@earthlearningsolutions.org>

Klaus,
I'm a musician/hobbyist too. Check out iGigbook. It does all that stuff and it's cheap.
Bill Prothero

William A. Prothero, PhD
Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science
University of California, Santa Barbara

> On May 25, 2023, at 8:23 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi friends,
> 
> I'm still an active musician (bass guitar) and am currently playing in four bands.
> 
> Nowadays bulky music stands on stage are OUT and tablets are IN!
> So I am considering to create a little app for myself to display PDF leadsheets 
> (= lyrics and chord symbols) on an Andorid tablet, which I still have to buy. :-)
> 
> There are some USB footswitches, and I would like to use one of them to browse 
> through the (multipage) PDFs (next page, previous page).
> 
> Anyone knows if these switches will act like an "external keyboard", means if they 
> will just send any RAWKEY that I could catch in LC? 
> Or will I need something created with LCB to do so?
> 
> Thanks for any hint!
> 
> P.S.
> Since PDFs are not accessible via "mobilepickmedia" are there ANY other ways to add 
> some PDFs later without having to download them from some URL?
> 
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From klaus at major-k.de  Thu May 25 11:57:32 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2023 17:57:32 +0200
Subject: Android and USB footswitch
In-Reply-To: <4742739B-0701-4A46-BFF7-1C42497F5356@earthlearningsolutions.org>
References: <B12CE181-3E47-4F1B-9AB1-E86191611237@major-k.de>
 <4742739B-0701-4A46-BFF7-1C42497F5356@earthlearningsolutions.org>
Message-ID: <FC326F46-5B3F-4707-AB8B-D652DF88E38B@major-k.de>

Hi Bill,

> Am 25.05.2023 um 17:41 schrieb William Prothero via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Klaus,
> I'm a musician/hobbyist too. Check out iGigbook. It does all that stuff and it's cheap.

thank you, but what the webpage does not tell is, if it supports footswitches and if one can "easily" 
import own PDF files from the device itself!?

And I wanted create this by myself, just for the fun of it. :-)
So my questions are still unanswered....

> Bill Prothero
> 
> William A. Prothero, PhD
> Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science
> University of California, Santa Barbara
> 
>> On May 25, 2023, at 8:23 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi friends,
>> 
>> I'm still an active musician (bass guitar) and am currently playing in four bands.
>> 
>> Nowadays bulky music stands on stage are OUT and tablets are IN!
>> So I am considering to create a little app for myself to display PDF leadsheets 
>> (= lyrics and chord symbols) on an Andorid tablet, which I still have to buy. :-)
>> 
>> There are some USB footswitches, and I would like to use one of them to browse 
>> through the (multipage) PDFs (next page, previous page).
>> 
>> Anyone knows if these switches will act like an "external keyboard", means if they 
>> will just send any RAWKEY that I could catch in LC? 
>> Or will I need something created with LCB to do so?
>> 
>> Thanks for any hint!
>> 
>> P.S.
>> Since PDFs are not accessible via "mobilepickmedia" are there ANY other ways to add 
>> some PDFs later without having to download them from some URL?

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org  Thu May 25 12:31:38 2023
From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (William Prothero)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2023 09:31:38 -0700
Subject: Android and USB footswitch
In-Reply-To: <FC326F46-5B3F-4707-AB8B-D652DF88E38B@major-k.de>
References: <FC326F46-5B3F-4707-AB8B-D652DF88E38B@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <BFE44E83-1C3B-4AA6-AA18-5343004B970F@earthlearningsolutions.org>

Klaus,
I'm not sure if it is supported on Android, but on an apple ipad, it supports pdf display, foot switch (pager) and even has an addon for displaying realbook scores in different keys. It's very popular among concert musicians as well. Personally, I bought a large screen ipad that displays the scores at full page size and supports apple pencil annotating of scores. It's main drawback is the documentation for the app was written by the programmer and it's pretty unclear. I love the app anyway, though.

Downside is that the ipad is expensive, but sure makes keeping track of music a lot easier.

Best,
Bill

William A. Prothero, PhD
Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science
University of California, Santa Barbara

> On May 25, 2023, at 8:58 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Bill,
> 
>> Am 25.05.2023 um 17:41 schrieb William Prothero via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Klaus,
>> I'm a musician/hobbyist too. Check out iGigbook. It does all that stuff and it's cheap.
> 
> thank you, but what the webpage does not tell is, if it supports footswitches and if one can "easily" 
> import own PDF files from the device itself!?
> 
> And I wanted create this by myself, just for the fun of it. :-)
> So my questions are still unanswered....
> 
>> Bill Prothero
>> 
>> William A. Prothero, PhD
>> Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science
>> University of California, Santa Barbara
>> 
>>>> On May 25, 2023, at 8:23 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi friends,
>>> 
>>> I'm still an active musician (bass guitar) and am currently playing in four bands.
>>> 
>>> Nowadays bulky music stands on stage are OUT and tablets are IN!
>>> So I am considering to create a little app for myself to display PDF leadsheets 
>>> (= lyrics and chord symbols) on an Andorid tablet, which I still have to buy. :-)
>>> 
>>> There are some USB footswitches, and I would like to use one of them to browse 
>>> through the (multipage) PDFs (next page, previous page).
>>> 
>>> Anyone knows if these switches will act like an "external keyboard", means if they 
>>> will just send any RAWKEY that I could catch in LC? 
>>> Or will I need something created with LCB to do so?
>>> 
>>> Thanks for any hint!
>>> 
>>> P.S.
>>> Since PDFs are not accessible via "mobilepickmedia" are there ANY other ways to add 
>>> some PDFs later without having to download them from some URL?
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From klaus at major-k.de  Thu May 25 12:44:39 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2023 18:44:39 +0200
Subject: Android and USB footswitch
In-Reply-To: <BFE44E83-1C3B-4AA6-AA18-5343004B970F@earthlearningsolutions.org>
References: <FC326F46-5B3F-4707-AB8B-D652DF88E38B@major-k.de>
 <BFE44E83-1C3B-4AA6-AA18-5343004B970F@earthlearningsolutions.org>
Message-ID: <22A14A13-AB6B-4163-A2F7-F884826DE407@major-k.de>

Hi Bill,

> Am 25.05.2023 um 18:31 schrieb William Prothero via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> Klaus,
> I'm not sure if it is supported on Android, but on an apple ipad, it supports pdf display, foot switch (pager) and even has an addon for displaying realbook scores in different keys. It's very popular among concert musicians as well. Personally, I bought a large screen ipad that displays the scores at full page size and supports apple pencil annotating of scores. It's main drawback is the documentation for the app was written by the programmer and it's pretty unclear. I love the app anyway, though.
> Downside is that the ipad is expensive, but sure makes keeping track of music a lot easier.

sure, but I can definitively only afford a used Android tablet.

> Best,
> Bill

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From ahsoftware at sonic.net  Thu May 25 12:51:13 2023
From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2023 09:51:13 -0700
Subject: Android and USB footswitch
In-Reply-To: <B12CE181-3E47-4F1B-9AB1-E86191611237@major-k.de>
References: <B12CE181-3E47-4F1B-9AB1-E86191611237@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <c2b44ed7-b447-4995-cf7a-02ea2eb6c6c1@sonic.net>

On 5/25/23 08:22, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi friends,
> 
> I'm still an active musician (bass guitar) and am currently playing in four bands.
> 
> Nowadays bulky music stands on stage are OUT and tablets are IN!
> So I am considering to create a little app for myself to display PDF leadsheets
> (= lyrics and chord symbols) on an Andorid tablet, which I still have to buy. :-)
> 
> There are some USB footswitches, and I would like to use one of them to browse
> through the (multipage) PDFs (next page, previous page).
> 
> Anyone knows if these switches will act like an "external keyboard", means if they
> will just send any RAWKEY that I could catch in LC?
> Or will I need something created with LCB to do so?

I use a Lekato Page Turner. It also works with my Lekato Looper.

<https://www.amazon.com/LEKATO-External-Switching-Functions-Function/dp/B08GYHWGYH>

At one point I was also managing to play in four bands. Knocking it down 
to three simplified my life immensely. Highly recommended.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From klaus at major-k.de  Thu May 25 15:49:07 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2023 21:49:07 +0200
Subject: Android and USB footswitch
In-Reply-To: <c2b44ed7-b447-4995-cf7a-02ea2eb6c6c1@sonic.net>
References: <B12CE181-3E47-4F1B-9AB1-E86191611237@major-k.de>
 <c2b44ed7-b447-4995-cf7a-02ea2eb6c6c1@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <48138978-006A-4058-A5EA-751CA3E455F3@major-k.de>

Hi Mark,

> Am 25.05.2023 um 18:51 schrieb Mark Wieder via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> On 5/25/23 08:22, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hi friends,
>> I'm still an active musician (bass guitar) and am currently playing in four bands.
>> Nowadays bulky music stands on stage are OUT and tablets are IN!
>> So I am considering to create a little app for myself to display PDF leadsheets
>> (= lyrics and chord symbols) on an Andorid tablet, which I still have to buy. :-)
>> There are some USB footswitches, and I would like to use one of them to browse
>> through the (multipage) PDFs (next page, previous page).
>> Anyone knows if these switches will act like an "external keyboard", means if they
>> will just send any RAWKEY that I could catch in LC?
>> Or will I need something created with LCB to do so?
> 
> I use a Lekato Page Turner. It also works with my Lekato Looper.
> <https://www.amazon.com/LEKATO-External-Switching-Functions-Function/dp/B08GYHWGYH>

since LC does not support bluetooth on Android (yet?), I need an USB device. Or does it?
Remember, I want to do it by myself! :-)

Already found a cheap USB device on Amazhon which looks like it could do the job.
But first I need to get a cheap tablet with a not too old Android version, so LC will support it.

> At one point I was also managing to play in four bands. Knocking it down to three simplified my life immensely. Highly recommended.

I am retired, don't have family and a lot more time than money, no problem for me, Sir! :-D


However my two questions are still unanswered.
1. Anyone knows if these switches will act like an "external keyboard", means if they
will just send any RAWKEY that I could catch in LC?

2. Since PDFs are not accessible via "mobilepickmedia" are there ANY other ways to add 
some PDFs later without having to download them from some URL?

> -- 
> Mark Wieder
> ahsoftware at gmail.com

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Thu May 25 16:32:25 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2023 22:32:25 +0200
Subject: Android and USB footswitch
In-Reply-To: <48138978-006A-4058-A5EA-751CA3E455F3@major-k.de>
References: <B12CE181-3E47-4F1B-9AB1-E86191611237@major-k.de>
 <c2b44ed7-b447-4995-cf7a-02ea2eb6c6c1@sonic.net>
 <48138978-006A-4058-A5EA-751CA3E455F3@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <7864C712-4A5B-4AC5-ACC3-2E5F5BE8CC93@m-r-d.de>

Klaus, 

this footswitch for example is detected as HID device. 
https://www.scythe-eu.com/produkte/pc-zubehoer/usb-foot-switch-ii.html


The functions of the switch(es) have to be configured with the included software on a Windows PC first. After that the switch can be used on other devices without any additonal software.
As most Android devices will support USB keyboards, this should work. 

If the Android device has a memory card slot you could store the PDFs on a memory card and let your LC app then access this storage card. To update the PDF files you eihter have  to connect your tablet with your PC or Mac as an external drive or you could remove the memory card from the tablet and use it in a cardreader on a PC or Mac.

I have here an older table laying around which I could send to you. But i have to check its os version first.

Regards,
Matthias

> Am 25.05.2023 um 21:49 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi Mark,
> 
>> Am 25.05.2023 um 18:51 schrieb Mark Wieder via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> On 5/25/23 08:22, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Hi friends,
>>> I'm still an active musician (bass guitar) and am currently playing in four bands.
>>> Nowadays bulky music stands on stage are OUT and tablets are IN!
>>> So I am considering to create a little app for myself to display PDF leadsheets
>>> (= lyrics and chord symbols) on an Andorid tablet, which I still have to buy. :-)
>>> There are some USB footswitches, and I would like to use one of them to browse
>>> through the (multipage) PDFs (next page, previous page).
>>> Anyone knows if these switches will act like an "external keyboard", means if they
>>> will just send any RAWKEY that I could catch in LC?
>>> Or will I need something created with LCB to do so?
>> 
>> I use a Lekato Page Turner. It also works with my Lekato Looper.
>> <https://www.amazon.com/LEKATO-External-Switching-Functions-Function/dp/B08GYHWGYH>
> 
> since LC does not support bluetooth on Android (yet?), I need an USB device. Or does it?
> Remember, I want to do it by myself! :-)
> 
> Already found a cheap USB device on Amazhon which looks like it could do the job.
> But first I need to get a cheap tablet with a not too old Android version, so LC will support it.
> 
>> At one point I was also managing to play in four bands. Knocking it down to three simplified my life immensely. Highly recommended.
> 
> I am retired, don't have family and a lot more time than money, no problem for me, Sir! :-D
> 
> 
> However my two questions are still unanswered.
> 1. Anyone knows if these switches will act like an "external keyboard", means if they
> will just send any RAWKEY that I could catch in LC?
> 
> 2. Since PDFs are not accessible via "mobilepickmedia" are there ANY other ways to add 
> some PDFs later without having to download them from some URL?
> 
>> -- 
>> Mark Wieder
>> ahsoftware at gmail.com <mailto:ahsoftware at gmail.com>
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de <https://www.major-k.de/>
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de <mailto:klaus at major-k.de>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Thu May 25 18:03:28 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2023 00:03:28 +0200
Subject: Android and USB footswitch
In-Reply-To: <7864C712-4A5B-4AC5-ACC3-2E5F5BE8CC93@m-r-d.de>
References: <B12CE181-3E47-4F1B-9AB1-E86191611237@major-k.de>
 <c2b44ed7-b447-4995-cf7a-02ea2eb6c6c1@sonic.net>
 <48138978-006A-4058-A5EA-751CA3E455F3@major-k.de>
 <7864C712-4A5B-4AC5-ACC3-2E5F5BE8CC93@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <29354EAD-FFF8-4449-9EB7-D84711EFE88B@m-r-d.de>

Klaus,

> Am 25.05.2023 um 22:32 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Klaus, 
> 
> this footswitch for example is detected as HID device. 
> https://www.scythe-eu.com/produkte/pc-zubehoer/usb-foot-switch-ii.html
> 
> 
The following refers to the switch of the above link and not for all usb switches.

> The functions of the switch(es) have to be configured with the included software on a Windows PC first. After that the switch can be used on other devices without any additonal software.
> As most Android devices will support USB keyboards, this should work. 


From sean at pidigital.co.uk  Thu May 25 18:24:56 2023
From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Pi Digital)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2023 23:24:56 +0100
Subject: Android and USB footswitch
In-Reply-To: <22A14A13-AB6B-4163-A2F7-F884826DE407@major-k.de>
References: <22A14A13-AB6B-4163-A2F7-F884826DE407@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <559C7AFE-B912-4E4F-A32B-2E257D7B44F8@pidigital.co.uk>

Hi Klaus
Get something like this. 
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/404250759038?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=kxdzbfgltem&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=GspHaDqVTAS&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
A usb footswitch will work like a mouse but with a different signature. The hub will be picked up via the tablet in a LiveCode app through the usual Bluetooth lib. Once it’s in you need to connect to the usb port from the hub and listen for messages. 

There are also these which work even better with built in BT - designed for RaspPi
https://dylanbeattie.net/2020/05/17/turning-a-raspberry-pi-zero-into-a-usb-footpedal.html

All the best buddy. 

Sean Cole
Pi Digital


> On 25 May 2023, at 17:44, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Bill,
> 
>> Am 25.05.2023 um 18:31 schrieb William Prothero via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> Klaus,
>> I'm not sure if it is supported on Android, but on an apple ipad, it supports pdf display, foot switch (pager) and even has an addon for displaying realbook scores in different keys. It's very popular among concert musicians as well. Personally, I bought a large screen ipad that displays the scores at full page size and supports apple pencil annotating of scores. It's main drawback is the documentation for the app was written by the programmer and it's pretty unclear. I love the app anyway, though.
>> Downside is that the ipad is expensive, but sure makes keeping track of music a lot easier.
> 
> sure, but I can definitively only afford a used Android tablet.
> 
>> Best,
>> Bill
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

From harrison at all-auctions.com  Thu May 25 21:32:11 2023
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2023 21:32:11 -0400
Subject: Android and USB footswitch
In-Reply-To: <559C7AFE-B912-4E4F-A32B-2E257D7B44F8@pidigital.co.uk>
References: <22A14A13-AB6B-4163-A2F7-F884826DE407@major-k.de>
 <559C7AFE-B912-4E4F-A32B-2E257D7B44F8@pidigital.co.uk>
Message-ID: <B4249729-D314-473E-9D25-98CCD9A7C4FC@all-auctions.com>

Hi Klaus,

A  quick and really dirty solution:

Find an old wireless or BlueTooth computer mouse that you really don’t like,
and use it as a foot switch.  That will be super easy for LiveCode to detect too!

Have fun!

Rick

> On May 25, 2023, at 6:24 PM, Pi Digital via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> A usb footswitch will work like a mouse but with a different signature. 


From klaus at major-k.de  Fri May 26 03:23:07 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2023 09:23:07 +0200
Subject: Android and USB footswitch
In-Reply-To: <B4249729-D314-473E-9D25-98CCD9A7C4FC@all-auctions.com>
References: <22A14A13-AB6B-4163-A2F7-F884826DE407@major-k.de>
 <559C7AFE-B912-4E4F-A32B-2E257D7B44F8@pidigital.co.uk>
 <B4249729-D314-473E-9D25-98CCD9A7C4FC@all-auctions.com>
Message-ID: <BB7EAC76-B341-4546-A00F-2CDA76AC3277@major-k.de>

Hi Rick,

> Am 26.05.2023 um 03:32 schrieb harrison--- via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi Klaus,
> 
> A  quick and really dirty solution:
> 
> Find an old wireless or BlueTooth computer mouse that you really don’t like,
> and use it as a foot switch.  That will be super easy for LiveCode to detect too!

thank you.

However I said I will need a USB device, since LC on Android (ANDROID!) does not 
support bluetooth/wireless.

> Have fun!
> 
> Rick
> 
>> On May 25, 2023, at 6:24 PM, Pi Digital via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> A usb footswitch will work like a mouse but with a different signature. 

Best

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From klaus at major-k.de  Fri May 26 03:25:54 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2023 09:25:54 +0200
Subject: Android and USB footswitch
In-Reply-To: <559C7AFE-B912-4E4F-A32B-2E257D7B44F8@pidigital.co.uk>
References: <22A14A13-AB6B-4163-A2F7-F884826DE407@major-k.de>
 <559C7AFE-B912-4E4F-A32B-2E257D7B44F8@pidigital.co.uk>
Message-ID: <6BB0FBE8-8025-4405-BA95-7D6DCB41007E@major-k.de>

Hi Sean,

> Am 26.05.2023 um 00:24 schrieb Pi Digital via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi Klaus
> Get something like this. 
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/404250759038?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=kxdzbfgltem&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=GspHaDqVTAS&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
> A usb footswitch will work like a mouse but with a different signature. The hub will be picked up via the tablet in a LiveCode app through the usual Bluetooth lib. Once it’s in you need to connect to the usb port from the hub and listen for messages. 
> There are also these which work even better with built in BT - designed for RaspPi
> https://dylanbeattie.net/2020/05/17/turning-a-raspberry-pi-zero-into-a-usb-footpedal.html
> All the best buddy. 

thank you, I actually want an easy and more straighforward solution.

> Sean Cole
> Pi Digital

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From klaus at major-k.de  Fri May 26 03:42:13 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2023 09:42:13 +0200
Subject: Android and USB footswitch
In-Reply-To: <7864C712-4A5B-4AC5-ACC3-2E5F5BE8CC93@m-r-d.de>
References: <B12CE181-3E47-4F1B-9AB1-E86191611237@major-k.de>
 <c2b44ed7-b447-4995-cf7a-02ea2eb6c6c1@sonic.net>
 <48138978-006A-4058-A5EA-751CA3E455F3@major-k.de>
 <7864C712-4A5B-4AC5-ACC3-2E5F5BE8CC93@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <714973A4-B23E-4CDA-B4AA-EC7DE45094FD@major-k.de>

Hi Matthias,

> Am 25.05.2023 um 22:32 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Klaus, 
> 
> this footswitch for example is detected as HID device. 
> https://www.scythe-eu.com/produkte/pc-zubehoer/usb-foot-switch-ii.html

yep, I will need something like this, thank you!

> The functions of the switch(es) have to be configured with the included software on a Windows PC first. After that the switch can be used on other devices without any additonal software. As most Android devices will support USB keyboards, this should work. 

I am counting on this fact! :-)

> If the Android device has a memory card slot you could store the PDFs on a memory card and let your LC app then access this storage card. To update the PDF files you eihter have  to connect your tablet with your PC or Mac as an external drive or you could remove the memory card from the tablet and use it in a cardreader on a PC or Mac.

I have a SD card in my old Samsung cell phone and tried exactly this, but did not work.
I checked "external storage" in the STAB, installed the test app and connected the phone to my Mac.
Then I copied an image into the appropriate "com.whatever...". (sub)folder on the SD but LC did not 
see the file in -> specialfolderpath("external documents")!?
Did I do it wrong?

> I have here an older table laying around which I could send to you. But i have to check its os version first.

That would be wonderful, Matthias. Please conact me privately.
LC needs at least Android 5.1.

Thanks a lot!

There is even a feature request/bug report for accessing more public Android folders:
<https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23526>

> Regards,
> Matthias

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Fri May 26 04:39:31 2023
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2023 11:39:31 +0300
Subject: Android and USB footswitch
In-Reply-To: <B12CE181-3E47-4F1B-9AB1-E86191611237@major-k.de>
References: <B12CE181-3E47-4F1B-9AB1-E86191611237@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <4eb71b59-4496-f7f7-f277-7d586586f37e@gmail.com>

https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Optical-Computer-Keyboard-Fortnite-Transcription/dp/B08QZ4H31C/ref=sr_1_4?crid=2WJV976H8HKK1&keywords=usb+foot+pedal&qid=1685090338&sprefix=USb+foot+pedal%2Caps%2C107&sr=8-4

On 25.05.23 18:22, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi friends,
>
> I'm still an active musician (bass guitar) and am currently playing in four bands.
>
> Nowadays bulky music stands on stage are OUT and tablets are IN!
> So I am considering to create a little app for myself to display PDF leadsheets
> (= lyrics and chord symbols) on an Andorid tablet, which I still have to buy. :-)
>
> There are some USB footswitches, and I would like to use one of them to browse
> through the (multipage) PDFs (next page, previous page).
>
> Anyone knows if these switches will act like an "external keyboard", means if they
> will just send any RAWKEY that I could catch in LC?
> Or will I need something created with LCB to do so?
>
> Thanks for any hint!
>
> P.S.
> Since PDFs are not accessible via "mobilepickmedia" are there ANY other ways to add
> some PDFs later without having to download them from some URL?
>
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From klaus at major-k.de  Fri May 26 04:57:18 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2023 10:57:18 +0200
Subject: Android and USB footswitch
In-Reply-To: <4eb71b59-4496-f7f7-f277-7d586586f37e@gmail.com>
References: <B12CE181-3E47-4F1B-9AB1-E86191611237@major-k.de>
 <4eb71b59-4496-f7f7-f277-7d586586f37e@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5D9CF0E7-4FF2-4586-9A2D-F86F0AED084F@major-k.de>

<https://media.istockphoto.com/id/1397892955/de/foto/dankeschön-nachricht-für-karte-präsentation-geschäft-dankbarkeit-anerkennung-und-wertschätzung.jpg?s=612x612&w=0&k=20&c=rRIsJfwYLGSL1jsgoSKpZ1VaZp9PvhkJUbtCCfUxibQ=>

> Am 26.05.2023 um 10:39 schrieb Richmond via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Optical-Computer-Keyboard-Fortnite-Transcription/dp/B08QZ4H31C/ref=sr_1_4?crid=2WJV976H8HKK1&keywords=usb+foot+pedal&qid=1685090338&sprefix=USb+foot+pedal%2Caps%2C107&sr=8-4
> 
> On 25.05.23 18:22, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hi friends,
>> 
>> I'm still an active musician (bass guitar) and am currently playing in four bands.
>> 
>> Nowadays bulky music stands on stage are OUT and tablets are IN!
>> So I am considering to create a little app for myself to display PDF leadsheets
>> (= lyrics and chord symbols) on an Andorid tablet, which I still have to buy. :-)
>> 
>> There are some USB footswitches, and I would like to use one of them to browse
>> through the (multipage) PDFs (next page, previous page).
>> 
>> Anyone knows if these switches will act like an "external keyboard", means if they
>> will just send any RAWKEY that I could catch in LC?
>> Or will I need something created with LCB to do so?
>> 
>> Thanks for any hint!
>> 
>> P.S.
>> Since PDFs are not accessible via "mobilepickmedia" are there ANY other ways to add
>> some PDFs later without having to download them from some URL?
>> 
>> 
>> Best
>> 
>> Klaus

:-)

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri May 26 11:32:43 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2023 15:32:43 +0000
Subject: The Backdrop's Purpose In Life
Message-ID: <SJ0PR02MB7533D49E33A7A061F57190A4B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>

HA! I just figured out what the purpose of the backdrop is! If you have multiple LC windows open and you tab to another app's window, then tab back to the LC window, ONLY that LC window will appear in the foreground. With Backdrop on, ALL the LC windows will become visible when you tab to any LC window.

All these years and I never knew that.

Bob S

From harrison at all-auctions.com  Fri May 26 12:26:55 2023
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2023 12:26:55 -0400
Subject: Android and USB footswitch
In-Reply-To: <BB7EAC76-B341-4546-A00F-2CDA76AC3277@major-k.de>
References: <22A14A13-AB6B-4163-A2F7-F884826DE407@major-k.de>
 <559C7AFE-B912-4E4F-A32B-2E257D7B44F8@pidigital.co.uk>
 <B4249729-D314-473E-9D25-98CCD9A7C4FC@all-auctions.com>
 <BB7EAC76-B341-4546-A00F-2CDA76AC3277@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <C719A9F1-6F92-4200-B5C2-E2B963F0470E@all-auctions.com>

Hi Klaus,

The mouse receiving device is a USB plug or dongle.
At the very worst you might have to find an adaptor.
It should work!

Rick

On May 26, 2023, at 3:23 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

Hi Rick,

Am 26.05.2023 um 03:32 schrieb harrison--- via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:

Hi Klaus,

A  quick and really dirty solution:

Find an old wireless or BlueTooth computer mouse that you really don’t like,
and use it as a foot switch.  That will be super easy for LiveCode to detect too!

thank you.

However I said I will need a USB device, since LC on Android (ANDROID!) does not 
support bluetooth/wireless.

Have fun!

Rick

On May 25, 2023, at 6:24 PM, Pi Digital via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
A usb footswitch will work like a mouse but with a different signature. 

Best

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de


_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri May 26 14:14:24 2023
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2023 11:14:24 -0700
Subject: The Backdrop's Purpose In Life
In-Reply-To: <SJ0PR02MB7533D49E33A7A061F57190A4B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533D49E33A7A061F57190A4B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <18413637-663f-4f3a-84a0-548d42c830d8@fourthworld.com>

Bob Sneidar wrote:

 > HA! I just figured out what the purpose of the backdrop is!
 > If you have multiple LC windows open and you tab to another
 > app's window, then tab back to the LC window, ONLY that LC
 > window will appear in the foreground. With Backdrop on, ALL
 > the LC windows will become visible when you tab to any LC
 > window.

The OS vendors help with that too:

Windows: Shift-click Taskbar icon -> "Bring All Windows Forward"

macOS:   Window menu -> Bring All to Front

-- 
Richard Gaskin
Fourth World Systems


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri May 26 14:20:52 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2023 18:20:52 +0000
Subject: The Backdrop's Purpose In Life
In-Reply-To: <18413637-663f-4f3a-84a0-548d42c830d8@fourthworld.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533D49E33A7A061F57190A4B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <18413637-663f-4f3a-84a0-548d42c830d8@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <SJ0PR02MB7533F5A841C14AB975996B79B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>

Huh. Windows not working for me. I'll try MacOS when I get my laptop up and running again. MacOS Update bricked the boot volume. Again. For the 3rd time. 

Bob S 

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> On Behalf Of Richard Gaskin via use-livecode
Sent: Friday, May 26, 2023 11:14 AM
To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Cc: Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
Subject: Re: The Backdrop's Purpose In Life

Bob Sneidar wrote:

 > HA! I just figured out what the purpose of the backdrop is!
 > If you have multiple LC windows open and you tab to another  > app's window, then tab back to the LC window, ONLY that LC  > window will appear in the foreground. With Backdrop on, ALL  > the LC windows will become visible when you tab to any LC  > window.

The OS vendors help with that too:

Windows: Shift-click Taskbar icon -> "Bring All Windows Forward"

macOS:   Window menu -> Bring All to Front

--
Richard Gaskin
Fourth World Systems

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri May 26 15:21:53 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2023 14:21:53 -0500
Subject: The Backdrop's Purpose In Life
In-Reply-To: <18413637-663f-4f3a-84a0-548d42c830d8@fourthworld.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533D49E33A7A061F57190A4B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <18413637-663f-4f3a-84a0-548d42c830d8@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <7ba419f3-2469-ad83-f27b-96474bdb5073@hyperactivesw.com>

On 5/26/23 1:14 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
> Bob Sneidar wrote:
> 
>  > HA! I just figured out what the purpose of the backdrop is!
>  > If you have multiple LC windows open and you tab to another
>  > app's window, then tab back to the LC window, ONLY that LC
>  > window will appear in the foreground. With Backdrop on, ALL
>  > the LC windows will become visible when you tab to any LC
>  > window.
> 
> The OS vendors help with that too:
> 
> Windows: Shift-click Taskbar icon -> "Bring All Windows Forward"
> 
> macOS:   Window menu -> Bring All to Front
> 

Clicking the icon in the Mac Dock also brings all windows forward.
-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From merakosp at gmail.com  Fri May 26 23:58:39 2023
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis m)
Date: Sat, 27 May 2023 06:58:39 +0300
Subject: The Backdrop's Purpose In Life
In-Reply-To: <7ba419f3-2469-ad83-f27b-96474bdb5073@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533D49E33A7A061F57190A4B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <18413637-663f-4f3a-84a0-548d42c830d8@fourthworld.com>
 <7ba419f3-2469-ad83-f27b-96474bdb5073@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq92=W=17cPZMJ9R9in0bnm6Mm+26H+r+YbFf6A6xBHxPg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all,

Note that the LC backdrop does not work on MacOS Ventura.

Cheers,
Panos

On Fri, 26 May 2023, 22:23 J. Landman Gay via use-livecode, <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On 5/26/23 1:14 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
> > Bob Sneidar wrote:
> >
> >  > HA! I just figured out what the purpose of the backdrop is!
> >  > If you have multiple LC windows open and you tab to another
> >  > app's window, then tab back to the LC window, ONLY that LC
> >  > window will appear in the foreground. With Backdrop on, ALL
> >  > the LC windows will become visible when you tab to any LC
> >  > window.
> >
> > The OS vendors help with that too:
> >
> > Windows: Shift-click Taskbar icon -> "Bring All Windows Forward"
> >
> > macOS:   Window menu -> Bring All to Front
> >
>
> Clicking the icon in the Mac Dock also brings all windows forward.
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat May 27 01:34:15 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 27 May 2023 00:34:15 -0500
Subject: The Backdrop's Purpose In Life
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq92=W=17cPZMJ9R9in0bnm6Mm+26H+r+YbFf6A6xBHxPg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533D49E33A7A061F57190A4B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <18413637-663f-4f3a-84a0-548d42c830d8@fourthworld.com>
 <7ba419f3-2469-ad83-f27b-96474bdb5073@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CA+JfEq92=W=17cPZMJ9R9in0bnm6Mm+26H+r+YbFf6A6xBHxPg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1885bb343d8.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

Will this be fixed?
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 26, 2023 11:01:09 PM panagiotis m via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> Note that the LC backdrop does not work on MacOS Ventura.
>
> Cheers,
> Panos





From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sat May 27 11:04:18 2023
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond)
Date: Sat, 27 May 2023 18:04:18 +0300
Subject: The Backdrop's Purpose In Life
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq92=W=17cPZMJ9R9in0bnm6Mm+26H+r+YbFf6A6xBHxPg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533D49E33A7A061F57190A4B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <18413637-663f-4f3a-84a0-548d42c830d8@fourthworld.com>
 <7ba419f3-2469-ad83-f27b-96474bdb5073@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CA+JfEq92=W=17cPZMJ9R9in0bnm6Mm+26H+r+YbFf6A6xBHxPg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <89d943b0-619b-d97e-3ad2-82dd00a54975@gmail.com>

Note that the LC backdrop with LC 9.6.3 community works just fine with 
MacOS Ventura.

Kisses, Richmond.

On 27.05.23 6:58, panagiotis m via use-livecode wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> Note that the LC backdrop does not work on MacOS Ventura.
>
> Cheers,
> Panos
>
> On Fri, 26 May 2023, 22:23 J. Landman Gay via use-livecode, <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> On 5/26/23 1:14 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Bob Sneidar wrote:
>>>
>>>   > HA! I just figured out what the purpose of the backdrop is!
>>>   > If you have multiple LC windows open and you tab to another
>>>   > app's window, then tab back to the LC window, ONLY that LC
>>>   > window will appear in the foreground. With Backdrop on, ALL
>>>   > the LC windows will become visible when you tab to any LC
>>>   > window.
>>>
>>> The OS vendors help with that too:
>>>
>>> Windows: Shift-click Taskbar icon -> "Bring All Windows Forward"
>>>
>>> macOS:   Window menu -> Bring All to Front
>>>
>> Clicking the icon in the Mac Dock also brings all windows forward.
>> --
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From skiplondon at gmail.com  Sat May 27 12:26:30 2023
From: skiplondon at gmail.com (Skip Kimpel)
Date: Sat, 27 May 2023 12:26:30 -0400
Subject: AR applications?
Message-ID: <FD751FD1-87F0-47B4-8C11-F1CF9C1DD6F5@gmail.com>

Has anybody done anything with LC and AR?

Curious minds want to know :)

SKIP


From harrison at all-auctions.com  Sat May 27 16:38:30 2023
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com)
Date: Sat, 27 May 2023 16:38:30 -0400
Subject: AR applications?
In-Reply-To: <FD751FD1-87F0-47B4-8C11-F1CF9C1DD6F5@gmail.com>
References: <FD751FD1-87F0-47B4-8C11-F1CF9C1DD6F5@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DD09652B-C289-4AA2-981F-20F10F4AFB74@all-auctions.com>

Hi Skip,

Doubtful.  I would wait until after we have a compilable version of LC and then it will be more possible.

Rick

> On May 27, 2023, at 12:26 PM, Skip Kimpel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Has anybody done anything with LC and AR?
> 
> Curious minds want to know :)
> 
> SKIP


From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Sat May 27 16:43:28 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Sat, 27 May 2023 16:43:28 -0400
Subject: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor
In-Reply-To: <SJ0PR02MB7533DD6A1D7C4C47E02C4060B2469@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
References: <EC712A5C-4123-4301-87D6-5EECCA4F8D79@gmail.com>
 <eaed4b26-788e-ccbc-b133-fb6a68a7d889@fourthworld.com>
 <C875D04B-F61A-47F2-8820-D369FED78726@gmail.com>
 <CADCoycOGY4DryEkhQYWoEm1w=UrZ3GYXg-jE19EdVKP1VLSySA@mail.gmail.com>
 <A9063093-3C5B-4D23-AF7A-B643CF1F2490@gmail.com>
 <SJ0PR02MB7533DD6A1D7C4C47E02C4060B2469@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycPgD1AJJ9hiD28AT0CR52eG4uh1YmZu7ZH8gSbGEH7k9g@mail.gmail.com>

i just tried, again, with the v.4 model.
it is now literally inventing documentation (which it presents,
formatted similarly to the way the dictionary appears), claims that it
can be found in the dictionary, and provides links to examples (which,
of course, are broken), and proceeds to insist that it is correct,
even after being told to load the pages in question.

On Thu, May 25, 2023 at 11:06 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> I create datagrids with some properties that help me with database queries. For instance one property is the name of the table I source for the data. So I came up with the idea of popping up a menu when I right click on a datagrid, where I can select a column from the table, and then wherever I click next, it will create a field and label in a group, all named after the column wherever I click next. The fields I produce also have a property for the column name, so when I populate a form, I provide an array of the datagrid data to the handler which iterates through all the fields looking for that property, and fills the fields with data from that array.
>
> So while creating forms is tedious, it can be made a good deal less tedious by doing some coding on the front end.
>
> Bob S
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Hi Mike,
>
> Not that I’m aware of. Apart from Richard’s utility, the only other way I’ve seen used is dragging items from the tools palette. Not a terrible process as no-code is involved in doing so (so you don’t have frustrations with syntax to deal with), but as Jacque points out, if you have a lot of this to do, it can get tedious.
>
> Mark
>
> > On 23 May 2023, at 8:31 pm, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > didn't the old db library (which is still included with LC, and still
> > gets built into every standalone, whether you choose to include it or
> > not) have the ability to build forms from db's?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."


From harrison at all-auctions.com  Sat May 27 16:54:17 2023
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com)
Date: Sat, 27 May 2023 16:54:17 -0400
Subject: Run LC on old Mac with Ventura!
In-Reply-To: <89d943b0-619b-d97e-3ad2-82dd00a54975@gmail.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533D49E33A7A061F57190A4B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <18413637-663f-4f3a-84a0-548d42c830d8@fourthworld.com>
 <7ba419f3-2469-ad83-f27b-96474bdb5073@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CA+JfEq92=W=17cPZMJ9R9in0bnm6Mm+26H+r+YbFf6A6xBHxPg@mail.gmail.com>
 <89d943b0-619b-d97e-3ad2-82dd00a54975@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <18230729-713C-4F53-9A32-E7D387B0556F@all-auctions.com>

Hi LC Mac users,

Last week I came across the following:

https://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/64141/opencore-legacy-patcher

I was very skeptical at first, so I took out my old 15 inch 2012 MacBook Pro
that I was thinking about recycling, and I tried it.  It works like a new machine
running Ventura!  It’s fast enough too! 

After I saw how good it works, all I could think of was how terrible 
it is that Apple has sidelined all of these old computers, that are 
perfectly capable.  

It behaves well with LC too!

Check it out and let me know what you think.  

Cheers,

Rick

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat May 27 17:45:55 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 27 May 2023 16:45:55 -0500
Subject: The Backdrop's Purpose In Life
In-Reply-To: <89d943b0-619b-d97e-3ad2-82dd00a54975@gmail.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533D49E33A7A061F57190A4B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <18413637-663f-4f3a-84a0-548d42c830d8@fourthworld.com>
 <7ba419f3-2469-ad83-f27b-96474bdb5073@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CA+JfEq92=W=17cPZMJ9R9in0bnm6Mm+26H+r+YbFf6A6xBHxPg@mail.gmail.com>
 <89d943b0-619b-d97e-3ad2-82dd00a54975@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1885f2cd650.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

Did you try Cmd-tab to cycle to another app and back? Does it also work if 
you bring another app to the front and then use the dock to return to LC? 
If so that would be good news.

I did find a backdrop glitch in a standalone on Monterey. Only one window 
showed where there should have been two.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 27, 2023 10:06:43 AM Richmond via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Note that the LC backdrop with LC 9.6.3 community works just fine with
> MacOS Ventura.
>
> Kisses, Richmond.
>
> On 27.05.23 6:58, panagiotis m via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hello all,
>>
>> Note that the LC backdrop does not work on MacOS Ventura.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Panos
>>
>> On Fri, 26 May 2023, 22:23 J. Landman Gay via use-livecode, <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/26/23 1:14 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> Bob Sneidar wrote:
>>>>
>>>>   > HA! I just figured out what the purpose of the backdrop is!
>>>>   > If you have multiple LC windows open and you tab to another
>>>>   > app's window, then tab back to the LC window, ONLY that LC
>>>>   > window will appear in the foreground. With Backdrop on, ALL
>>>>   > the LC windows will become visible when you tab to any LC
>>>>   > window.
>>>>
>>>> The OS vendors help with that too:
>>>>
>>>> Windows: Shift-click Taskbar icon -> "Bring All Windows Forward"
>>>>
>>>> macOS:   Window menu -> Bring All to Front
>>>>
>>> Clicking the icon in the Mac Dock also brings all windows forward.
>>> --
>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From curry at pair.com  Sun May 28 00:54:38 2023
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 00:54:38 -0400
Subject: WordReport 1.3 - Order Download Link fixed
Message-ID: <42b7349b-d801-d384-3813-6e6b797a5b8a@pair.com>


WordReport's after-order Download Link fixed in CurryK/SendOwl store.

(And an unrelated WordReport delivery issue fixed by LC in their store.)

Thanks Fernando Riccio and Heather!

Anyone previously affected, please use the Download on the page below.

More news soon....

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

WordReport: Professional pre-formatted reports
for MS Word and OpenOffice files in LiveCode!
http://livecodeaddons.com/wordreport.html

Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
"Passion for Elegant and Efficient Code"
http://livecodeconsulting.com/


From skiplondon at gmail.com  Sun May 28 10:54:13 2023
From: skiplondon at gmail.com (Skip Kimpel)
Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 10:54:13 -0400
Subject: AR applications?
In-Reply-To: <DD09652B-C289-4AA2-981F-20F10F4AFB74@all-auctions.com>
References: <DD09652B-C289-4AA2-981F-20F10F4AFB74@all-auctions.com>
Message-ID: <E82417D5-2F6A-410D-ADC9-7C7D7B9FD437@gmail.com>

Wait… what?  I have been away from this list for a while, LC is not currently compilable??

SKIP

> On May 27, 2023, at 4:39 PM, harrison--- via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Skip,
> 
> Doubtful.  I would wait until after we have a compilable version of LC and then it will be more possible.
> 
> Rick
> 
>> On May 27, 2023, at 12:26 PM, Skip Kimpel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Has anybody done anything with LC and AR?
>> 
>> Curious minds want to know :)
>> 
>> SKIP
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Sun May 28 20:18:16 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 20:18:16 -0400
Subject: android remote debugger
Message-ID: <CADCoycMvAkkp1zmBz1aT8aoTLpMCY31vowp5Y8OY7Yf8Vd2j6A@mail.gmail.com>

i'm back to futzing with android, again, now trying to get the remote
debugger to run.
it's included with the stack, but i can't seem to get it to fire, even
with the breakpoint command.

-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun May 28 23:45:59 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 22:45:59 -0500
Subject: android remote debugger
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycMvAkkp1zmBz1aT8aoTLpMCY31vowp5Y8OY7Yf8Vd2j6A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADCoycMvAkkp1zmBz1aT8aoTLpMCY31vowp5Y8OY7Yf8Vd2j6A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <188659cdcd8.2804.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

That's happened to me twice over the years and nothing I could do fixed it 
until a new LC version was released, where suddenly it started working 
again. I don't think it's LC, it is something in the OS. I tried fiddling 
with system prefs permissions but it didn't help. The two instances were 
years apart and I still don't know why.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 28, 2023 7:21:05 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> i'm back to futzing with android, again, now trying to get the remote
> debugger to run.
> it's included with the stack, but i can't seem to get it to fire, even
> with the breakpoint command.
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>   and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Mon May 29 06:26:19 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 11:26:19 +0100
Subject: LC compilation
In-Reply-To: <E82417D5-2F6A-410D-ADC9-7C7D7B9FD437@gmail.com>
References: <DD09652B-C289-4AA2-981F-20F10F4AFB74@all-auctions.com>
 <E82417D5-2F6A-410D-ADC9-7C7D7B9FD437@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DAB41BF0-0E01-42DD-A358-A9317E0340C2@gmail.com>

Hi Skip,

I’m surprised no one has taken a stab at answering this. I'm certainly no expert on the internal workings of LC or compilers but I can take a stab at articulating what I think the answer is, and when I get it wrong someone else can jump in to correct me (I should probably know this stuff better anyway).

So if I am correct, the current environment converts LC script into some sort of (possibly binary) tree structure that is better organised to be executed by the LC engine. The engine is a big chunk of what I think is mostly Obj C (or some relative thereof) code that interprets the tree structures created in the first phase. So I guess that makes it sort of compiled? Compiled to execute in/on the LC engine, but also interpreted because the tree code is not executed on the target platform directly but is interpreted by the engine to generate the final executable result. 

As far as the script compiler project is concerned, I believe the goal is to create a byte code stream that can be interpreted more efficiently by (a possibly new?) engine. Not sure about the new engine part, but the idea is the tree structure thing goes away and in its place is a linear stream of byte codes that can both be executed more effiencetly but also optimised more fully. This particular byte stream (and here I’m going way outside my wheelhouse) is similar to what other compilers like Java, Python, (Pascal? — which I do know was a byte code compiled run time interpreted language… although companies like Borland eventually wrote Pascal compilers that executed directly on the target platform without any interpretation) produce. So, it would bring the LC compiled code more in line with what other compilers are producing which means post compilation the code could be optimised more completely using well developed industry standard approaches. And so everything ends up a little smaller and faster but it also opens the door to doing other things with the script code down the road. 

Well, that's my take on Mark Waddinghams’ most recent seminar on this topic. But he assuredly can fill you in much better than I can.

Cheers,
Mark



> On 28 May 2023, at 3:54 pm, Skip Kimpel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Wait… what?  I have been away from this list for a while, LC is not currently compilable??
> 
> SKIP
> 
>> On May 27, 2023, at 4:39 PM, harrison--- via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Skip,
>> 
>> Doubtful.  I would wait until after we have a compilable version of LC and then it will be more possible.
>> 
>> Rick
>> 
>>> On May 27, 2023, at 12:26 PM, Skip Kimpel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Has anybody done anything with LC and AR?
>>> 
>>> Curious minds want to know :)
>>> 
>>> SKIP
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From harrison at all-auctions.com  Mon May 29 09:28:04 2023
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 09:28:04 -0400
Subject: OpenCore Legacy Patcher for LC
In-Reply-To: <18230729-713C-4F53-9A32-E7D387B0556F@all-auctions.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533D49E33A7A061F57190A4B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <18413637-663f-4f3a-84a0-548d42c830d8@fourthworld.com>
 <7ba419f3-2469-ad83-f27b-96474bdb5073@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CA+JfEq92=W=17cPZMJ9R9in0bnm6Mm+26H+r+YbFf6A6xBHxPg@mail.gmail.com>
 <89d943b0-619b-d97e-3ad2-82dd00a54975@gmail.com>
 <18230729-713C-4F53-9A32-E7D387B0556F@all-auctions.com>
Message-ID: <BE35F18E-D23F-4E14-AEF9-20ED7755A412@all-auctions.com>

Is there anyone on this list that has tried
OpenCore Legacy Patcher to run LiveCode
on their old mac?

Let me know.

Thanks,

Rick

> On May 27, 2023, at 4:54 PM, harrison--- via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi LC Mac users,
> 
> Last week I came across the following:
> 
> https://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/64141/opencore-legacy-patcher
> 
> I was very skeptical at first, so I took out my old 15 inch 2012 MacBook Pro
> that I was thinking about recycling, and I tried it.  It works like a new machine
> running Ventura!  It’s fast enough too! 
> 
> After I saw how good it works, all I could think of was how terrible 
> it is that Apple has sidelined all of these old computers, that are 
> perfectly capable.  
> 
> It behaves well with LC too!
> 
> Check it out and let me know what you think.  
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Rick
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon May 29 11:17:43 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 10:17:43 -0500
Subject: OpenCore Legacy Patcher for LC
In-Reply-To: <BE35F18E-D23F-4E14-AEF9-20ED7755A412@all-auctions.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533D49E33A7A061F57190A4B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <18413637-663f-4f3a-84a0-548d42c830d8@fourthworld.com>
 <7ba419f3-2469-ad83-f27b-96474bdb5073@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CA+JfEq92=W=17cPZMJ9R9in0bnm6Mm+26H+r+YbFf6A6xBHxPg@mail.gmail.com>
 <89d943b0-619b-d97e-3ad2-82dd00a54975@gmail.com>
 <18230729-713C-4F53-9A32-E7D387B0556F@all-auctions.com>
 <BE35F18E-D23F-4E14-AEF9-20ED7755A412@all-auctions.com>
Message-ID: <188681629d8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

It's on my to-do list but I haven't got to it yet. Is there a problem with LC?

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 29, 2023 8:30:00 AM harrison--- via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Is there anyone on this list that has tried
> OpenCore Legacy Patcher to run LiveCode
> on their old mac?
>
> Let me know.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Rick
>
>> On May 27, 2023, at 4:54 PM, harrison--- via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi LC Mac users,
>>
>> Last week I came across the following:
>>
>> https://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/64141/opencore-legacy-patcher
>>
>> I was very skeptical at first, so I took out my old 15 inch 2012 MacBook Pro
>> that I was thinking about recycling, and I tried it.  It works like a new 
>> machine
>> running Ventura!  Its fast enough too!
>>
>> After I saw how good it works, all I could think of was how terrible
>> it is that Apple has sidelined all of these old computers, that are
>> perfectly capable.
>>
>> It behaves well with LC too!
>>
>> Check it out and let me know what you think.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Rick
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Mon May 29 12:56:19 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 12:56:19 -0400
Subject: LC compilation
In-Reply-To: <DAB41BF0-0E01-42DD-A358-A9317E0340C2@gmail.com>
References: <DD09652B-C289-4AA2-981F-20F10F4AFB74@all-auctions.com>
 <E82417D5-2F6A-410D-ADC9-7C7D7B9FD437@gmail.com>
 <DAB41BF0-0E01-42DD-A358-A9317E0340C2@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycMLqGLytgu_Eciu6U_tQHmYpmYiLvNbZxORrT6DJsHcfw@mail.gmail.com>

I don't see the original post, so I can only part-comment on this.
LC doesn't compile, per se. It builds standalone apps for all
platforms, but those apps include the LC engine, extensions,
libraries, and your stack(s). There is an obfuscator, but, no, no
bytecode or ML, yet. The apps behave as you would expect a standalone
app to behave, but, with a disassembler, you will have an easier time
with them than you would with a ML or BC compiled app.
The good news is that the current architecture makes remote debugging
from mobes much simpler, and, whether you are on a desktop or mobile
platform, you can include functionality such as side-loading and
real-time code execution trivially.
For example, let's say you have a debug build. If you include a button
in your debug build, with the following script, you can prompt for a
command, and execute it, live, in your standalone:

on mouseUp
   global gDo
   ask "Do what?" with gDo
   if it is not empty then
      put it into gDo
      do gDo
   end if
end mouseUp

The above script will also, as I am sure you deduced, store the last
command you typed, and prompt you with it, the next time you press the
button.
This is, of course, especially useful if you want to invoke the
debugger and then debug some routine. You can do that like by clicking
the button I just described, and then typing into the dialog:
breakpoint;send "mouseUp" to button "someButton" # steps you through
the debug button script, then to the mouseUp handler of "someButton"

We are all patiently waiting for the script compiler, which, as of
last conversation with Mark W., is going to be a bytecode compiler,
not a ML compiler.

On Mon, May 29, 2023 at 6:27 AM Mark Smith via use-livecode
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Skip,
>
> I’m surprised no one has taken a stab at answering this. I'm certainly no expert on the internal workings of LC or compilers but I can take a stab at articulating what I think the answer is, and when I get it wrong someone else can jump in to correct me (I should probably know this stuff better anyway).
>
> So if I am correct, the current environment converts LC script into some sort of (possibly binary) tree structure that is better organised to be executed by the LC engine. The engine is a big chunk of what I think is mostly Obj C (or some relative thereof) code that interprets the tree structures created in the first phase. So I guess that makes it sort of compiled? Compiled to execute in/on the LC engine, but also interpreted because the tree code is not executed on the target platform directly but is interpreted by the engine to generate the final executable result.
>
> As far as the script compiler project is concerned, I believe the goal is to create a byte code stream that can be interpreted more efficiently by (a possibly new?) engine. Not sure about the new engine part, but the idea is the tree structure thing goes away and in its place is a linear stream of byte codes that can both be executed more effiencetly but also optimised more fully. This particular byte stream (and here I’m going way outside my wheelhouse) is similar to what other compilers like Java, Python, (Pascal? — which I do know was a byte code compiled run time interpreted language… although companies like Borland eventually wrote Pascal compilers that executed directly on the target platform without any interpretation) produce. So, it would bring the LC compiled code more in line with what other compilers are producing which means post compilation the code could be optimised more completely using well developed industry standard approaches. And so everything ends up a little smaller and faster but it also opens the door to doing other things with the script code down the road.
>
> Well, that's my take on Mark Waddinghams’ most recent seminar on this topic. But he assuredly can fill you in much better than I can.
>
> Cheers,
> Mark
>
>
>
> > On 28 May 2023, at 3:54 pm, Skip Kimpel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Wait… what?  I have been away from this list for a while, LC is not currently compilable??
> >
> > SKIP
> >
> >> On May 27, 2023, at 4:39 PM, harrison--- via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Skip,
> >>
> >> Doubtful.  I would wait until after we have a compilable version of LC and then it will be more possible.
> >>
> >> Rick
> >>
> >>> On May 27, 2023, at 12:26 PM, Skip Kimpel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Has anybody done anything with LC and AR?
> >>>
> >>> Curious minds want to know :)
> >>>
> >>> SKIP
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."


From dochawk at gmail.com  Mon May 29 13:11:00 2023
From: dochawk at gmail.com (doc hawk)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 10:11:00 -0700
Subject: Run LC on old Mac with Ventura!
In-Reply-To: <18230729-713C-4F53-9A32-E7D387B0556F@all-auctions.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533D49E33A7A061F57190A4B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <18413637-663f-4f3a-84a0-548d42c830d8@fourthworld.com>
 <7ba419f3-2469-ad83-f27b-96474bdb5073@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CA+JfEq92=W=17cPZMJ9R9in0bnm6Mm+26H+r+YbFf6A6xBHxPg@mail.gmail.com>
 <89d943b0-619b-d97e-3ad2-82dd00a54975@gmail.com>
 <18230729-713C-4F53-9A32-E7D387B0556F@all-auctions.com>
Message-ID: <799CF823-AA84-4E23-9499-55D4522DD36C@gmail.com>

If memory serves, the problem with older machines was not running the metal graphical system, as they lacked the hardware.

There were some near-contemporaneous patches that allowed at least the first post-mohave osx to run, put were reported as glacially and painfully slow as metal got emulated on older hardware.

This says that the patch allows supporter non-metal graphical cards, though—I’m curious how that would work on apple stuff that calls to metal.

But, alas, the 2012 iMac isn’t the list, so I guess I’m out of luck anyway.



From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Mon May 29 19:25:21 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 00:25:21 +0100
Subject: LC compilation
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycMLqGLytgu_Eciu6U_tQHmYpmYiLvNbZxORrT6DJsHcfw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <DD09652B-C289-4AA2-981F-20F10F4AFB74@all-auctions.com>
 <E82417D5-2F6A-410D-ADC9-7C7D7B9FD437@gmail.com>
 <DAB41BF0-0E01-42DD-A358-A9317E0340C2@gmail.com>
 <CADCoycMLqGLytgu_Eciu6U_tQHmYpmYiLvNbZxORrT6DJsHcfw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3A325FB2-71B9-4EC7-8BB5-C04F11BFBB8D@gmail.com>

Hi Mike, sorry I thought it would have been copied with the reply. The original post from Skip Kimpel was more or less asking if LC is compiled. The exact post was…

	"Wait… what?  I have been away from this list for a while, LC is not currently compilable??

	SKIP”

I do have a question based on your reply. You indicate LC doesn’t compile but then go on to list all of the stuff it compiles into a standalone application (most of which, such as the LC engine, extensions, libraries, etc) are just (I would argue) libraries when it builds an application. Taking the definition of compiler as “a process to convert (a program) into a machine-code <https://www.google.co.uk/search?client=safari&channel=mac_bm&q=machine-code&si=AMnBZoFOMBUphduq9VwZxsuReC7YV6BL3UJP9cGsG2J_mNMPwgWXqX8HuVPC8gyFB81-plMkPkEzmbteRge93xxj5qVwJdYjXSPc2zeY_vz8RKYr_9tAP6Q%3D&expnd=1> or a lower-level <https://www.google.co.uk/search?client=safari&channel=mac_bm&q=lower-level&si=AMnBZoG9fGMZkoPgk-g4eVoaZFdERA6BgFgTvewAwu3qykvLOcqyjsbvyNVL0k7ItNaeg3uetPXhm4wenDJM9iNdxIwXbgNT_MfjGFunU2ur_NpUowaHa-E%3D&expnd=1> form in which the program can be executed.” I would argue it “sort of” does that in that the included scripts (as I understand it) are not in their original editable form but have been converted into something that is more easily interpreted by the engine. I know it’s not ML, nor is it bytecode, but it’s one step removed from the actually editable text in the script editor. Would’t you agree?

The true advantage of the byte code, I believe, is that it brings LC in line with other similar compilers and therefore allows a more sophisticated (and standardised) approach to code optimisation. Or at least that will be one of the advantages. Obfuscation of code, as you mention, is another (although I have never personally worried about anyone wanting to steal my code 😊). 

Mark


> On 29 May 2023, at 5:56 pm, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I don't see the original post, so I can only part-comment on this.
> LC doesn't compile, per se. It builds standalone apps for all
> platforms, but those apps include the LC engine, extensions,
> libraries, and your stack(s). There is an obfuscator, but, no, no
> bytecode or ML, yet. The apps behave as you would expect a standalone
> app to behave, but, with a disassembler, you will have an easier time
> with them than you would with a ML or BC compiled app.
> The good news is that the current architecture makes remote debugging
> from mobes much simpler, and, whether you are on a desktop or mobile
> platform, you can include functionality such as side-loading and
> real-time code execution trivially.
> For example, let's say you have a debug build. If you include a button
> in your debug build, with the following script, you can prompt for a
> command, and execute it, live, in your standalone:
> 
> on mouseUp
>   global gDo
>   ask "Do what?" with gDo
>   if it is not empty then
>      put it into gDo
>      do gDo
>   end if
> end mouseUp
> 
> The above script will also, as I am sure you deduced, store the last
> command you typed, and prompt you with it, the next time you press the
> button.
> This is, of course, especially useful if you want to invoke the
> debugger and then debug some routine. You can do that like by clicking
> the button I just described, and then typing into the dialog:
> breakpoint;send "mouseUp" to button "someButton" # steps you through
> the debug button script, then to the mouseUp handler of "someButton"
> 
> We are all patiently waiting for the script compiler, which, as of
> last conversation with Mark W., is going to be a bytecode compiler,
> not a ML compiler.
> 
> On Mon, May 29, 2023 at 6:27 AM Mark Smith via use-livecode
> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Skip,
>> 
>> I’m surprised no one has taken a stab at answering this. I'm certainly no expert on the internal workings of LC or compilers but I can take a stab at articulating what I think the answer is, and when I get it wrong someone else can jump in to correct me (I should probably know this stuff better anyway).
>> 
>> So if I am correct, the current environment converts LC script into some sort of (possibly binary) tree structure that is better organised to be executed by the LC engine. The engine is a big chunk of what I think is mostly Obj C (or some relative thereof) code that interprets the tree structures created in the first phase. So I guess that makes it sort of compiled? Compiled to execute in/on the LC engine, but also interpreted because the tree code is not executed on the target platform directly but is interpreted by the engine to generate the final executable result.
>> 
>> As far as the script compiler project is concerned, I believe the goal is to create a byte code stream that can be interpreted more efficiently by (a possibly new?) engine. Not sure about the new engine part, but the idea is the tree structure thing goes away and in its place is a linear stream of byte codes that can both be executed more effiencetly but also optimised more fully. This particular byte stream (and here I’m going way outside my wheelhouse) is similar to what other compilers like Java, Python, (Pascal? — which I do know was a byte code compiled run time interpreted language… although companies like Borland eventually wrote Pascal compilers that executed directly on the target platform without any interpretation) produce. So, it would bring the LC compiled code more in line with what other compilers are producing which means post compilation the code could be optimised more completely using well developed industry standard approaches. And so everything ends up a little smaller and faster but it also opens the door to doing other things with the script code down the road.
>> 
>> Well, that's my take on Mark Waddinghams’ most recent seminar on this topic. But he assuredly can fill you in much better than I can.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Mark
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 28 May 2023, at 3:54 pm, Skip Kimpel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Wait… what?  I have been away from this list for a while, LC is not currently compilable??
>>> 
>>> SKIP
>>> 
>>>> On May 27, 2023, at 4:39 PM, harrison--- via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Skip,
>>>> 
>>>> Doubtful.  I would wait until after we have a compilable version of LC and then it will be more possible.
>>>> 
>>>> Rick
>>>> 
>>>>> On May 27, 2023, at 12:26 PM, Skip Kimpel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Has anybody done anything with LC and AR?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Curious minds want to know :)
>>>>> 
>>>>> SKIP
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>   and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From harrison at all-auctions.com  Mon May 29 19:49:51 2023
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 19:49:51 -0400
Subject: OpenCore Legacy Patcher for LC
In-Reply-To: <188681629d8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533D49E33A7A061F57190A4B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <18413637-663f-4f3a-84a0-548d42c830d8@fourthworld.com>
 <7ba419f3-2469-ad83-f27b-96474bdb5073@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CA+JfEq92=W=17cPZMJ9R9in0bnm6Mm+26H+r+YbFf6A6xBHxPg@mail.gmail.com>
 <89d943b0-619b-d97e-3ad2-82dd00a54975@gmail.com>
 <18230729-713C-4F53-9A32-E7D387B0556F@all-auctions.com>
 <BE35F18E-D23F-4E14-AEF9-20ED7755A412@all-auctions.com>
 <188681629d8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <562381EB-47AC-437C-B04D-8C6C13EC9C59@all-auctions.com>

No problems with LC that I have found so far.

> On May 29, 2023, at 11:17 AM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> It's on my to-do list but I haven't got to it yet. Is there a problem with LC?


From selander at tkf.att.ne.jp  Mon May 29 20:32:58 2023
From: selander at tkf.att.ne.jp (Tim Selander)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 09:32:58 +0900
Subject: LC Server and forcing page refreshes
Message-ID: <5fe3bd1d-45b8-16ed-b820-1b0640a401b0@tkf.att.ne.jp>

Once again find myself over my head in just a simple programming project.

I made a little club members directory website, using LC server on 
on-rev's hosting site.

Members can edit their info. I use a form, with the action going to an 
LC script. This script gets all the post data, shuffles it off to the 
database, and then goes back to the member's page using a re-direct:

  <meta http-equiv = "refresh" content = "2; url = <?lc put vlink?>" />

where vlink has the member's URL.

My Problem: If folk update their photos, their browser cache still shows 
the old picture -- logically leading them to think the update failed.

The photos are simply stored on the server, the database only stores the 
path of the file. The photo file shown on the member's page with an 
image tag.

Can any of the gurus here tell me how to get the page to ignore the 
cache so the browser shows the new photo?

Many thanks.

Tim Selander
Tokyo, Japan



From harrison at all-auctions.com  Mon May 29 22:42:15 2023
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 22:42:15 -0400
Subject: OpenCore Legacy Patcher Supports 2012 iMac!
In-Reply-To: <799CF823-AA84-4E23-9499-55D4522DD36C@gmail.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533D49E33A7A061F57190A4B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <18413637-663f-4f3a-84a0-548d42c830d8@fourthworld.com>
 <7ba419f3-2469-ad83-f27b-96474bdb5073@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CA+JfEq92=W=17cPZMJ9R9in0bnm6Mm+26H+r+YbFf6A6xBHxPg@mail.gmail.com>
 <89d943b0-619b-d97e-3ad2-82dd00a54975@gmail.com>
 <18230729-713C-4F53-9A32-E7D387B0556F@all-auctions.com>
 <799CF823-AA84-4E23-9499-55D4522DD36C@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2E6FBA11-8D4E-4324-832A-E548204929C7@all-auctions.com>

https://dortania.github.io/OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher/MODELS.html#imac

You are very lucky!  You must have looked at an old post.

Have fun!

Rick

> On May 29, 2023, at 1:11 PM, doc hawk via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> If memory serves, the problem with older machines was not running the metal graphical system, as they lacked the hardware.
> 
> There were some near-contemporaneous patches that allowed at least the first post-mohave osx to run, put were reported as glacially and painfully slow as metal got emulated on older hardware.
> 
> This says that the patch allows supporter non-metal graphical cards, though—I’m curious how that would work on apple stuff that calls to metal.
> 
> But, alas, the 2012 iMac isn’t the list, so I guess I’m out of luck anyway.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From hlowe at me.com  Mon May 29 22:59:34 2023
From: hlowe at me.com (HENRY LOWE)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 19:59:34 -0700
Subject: OpenCore Legacy Patcher Supports 2012 iMac!
In-Reply-To: <2E6FBA11-8D4E-4324-832A-E548204929C7@all-auctions.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533D49E33A7A061F57190A4B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <18413637-663f-4f3a-84a0-548d42c830d8@fourthworld.com>
 <7ba419f3-2469-ad83-f27b-96474bdb5073@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CA+JfEq92=W=17cPZMJ9R9in0bnm6Mm+26H+r+YbFf6A6xBHxPg@mail.gmail.com>
 <89d943b0-619b-d97e-3ad2-82dd00a54975@gmail.com>
 <18230729-713C-4F53-9A32-E7D387B0556F@all-auctions.com>
 <799CF823-AA84-4E23-9499-55D4522DD36C@gmail.com>
 <2E6FBA11-8D4E-4324-832A-E548204929C7@all-auctions.com>
Message-ID: <DFBE31D9-ECDE-4D3A-871D-F355130104DC@me.com>

Mac OS Ventura runs just fine on my 2012 iMac courtesy of OpenCore Legacy Patcher. I don’t run LC on this machine - use a 2019 iMac for that.

Henry 

> On May 29, 2023, at 7:42 PM, harrison--- via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> https://dortania.github.io/OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher/MODELS.html#imac
> 
> You are very lucky!  You must have looked at an old post.
> 
> Have fun!
> 
> Rick
> 
>> On May 29, 2023, at 1:11 PM, doc hawk via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> If memory serves, the problem with older machines was not running the metal graphical system, as they lacked the hardware.
>> 
>> There were some near-contemporaneous patches that allowed at least the first post-mohave osx to run, put were reported as glacially and painfully slow as metal got emulated on older hardware.
>> 
>> This says that the patch allows supporter non-metal graphical cards, though—I’m curious how that would work on apple stuff that calls to metal.
>> 
>> But, alas, the 2012 iMac isn’t the list, so I guess I’m out of luck anyway.
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From harrison at all-auctions.com  Mon May 29 23:11:31 2023
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 23:11:31 -0400
Subject: OpenCore Legacy Patcher Supports 2012 iMac!
In-Reply-To: <DFBE31D9-ECDE-4D3A-871D-F355130104DC@me.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533D49E33A7A061F57190A4B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <18413637-663f-4f3a-84a0-548d42c830d8@fourthworld.com>
 <7ba419f3-2469-ad83-f27b-96474bdb5073@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CA+JfEq92=W=17cPZMJ9R9in0bnm6Mm+26H+r+YbFf6A6xBHxPg@mail.gmail.com>
 <89d943b0-619b-d97e-3ad2-82dd00a54975@gmail.com>
 <18230729-713C-4F53-9A32-E7D387B0556F@all-auctions.com>
 <799CF823-AA84-4E23-9499-55D4522DD36C@gmail.com>
 <2E6FBA11-8D4E-4324-832A-E548204929C7@all-auctions.com>
 <DFBE31D9-ECDE-4D3A-871D-F355130104DC@me.com>
Message-ID: <AA0D1966-67AE-4C15-B388-795EEF1A4B50@all-auctions.com>

Thanks Henry, for confirming that Ventura runs on your 2012 iMac with OpenCore Legacy Patcher.

Rick

> On May 29, 2023, at 10:59 PM, HENRY LOWE via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Mac OS Ventura runs just fine on my 2012 iMac courtesy of OpenCore Legacy Patcher. I don’t run LC on this machine - use a 2019 iMac for that.
> 
> Henry 


From rabit at revigniter.com  Tue May 30 04:09:04 2023
From: rabit at revigniter.com (Ralf Bitter)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 10:09:04 +0200
Subject: LC Server and forcing page refreshes
In-Reply-To: <5fe3bd1d-45b8-16ed-b820-1b0640a401b0@tkf.att.ne.jp>
References: <5fe3bd1d-45b8-16ed-b820-1b0640a401b0@tkf.att.ne.jp>
Message-ID: <23c26f30-9c7a-d7f4-f99e-4b51aa58280b@revigniter.com>

Hi Tim,

how about adding a query string in the form of a timestamp to the 
members URL like:

?foo=1685433742125


Ralf


On 30.05.2023 02:32, Tim Selander via use-livecode wrote:
> Once again find myself over my head in just a simple programming project.
> 
> I made a little club members directory website, using LC server on 
> on-rev's hosting site.
> 
> Members can edit their info. I use a form, with the action going to an 
> LC script. This script gets all the post data, shuffles it off to the 
> database, and then goes back to the member's page using a re-direct:
> 
>   <meta http-equiv = "refresh" content = "2; url = <?lc put vlink?>" />
> 
> where vlink has the member's URL.
> 
> My Problem: If folk update their photos, their browser cache still shows 
> the old picture -- logically leading them to think the update failed.
> 
> The photos are simply stored on the server, the database only stores the 
> path of the file. The photo file shown on the member's page with an 
> image tag.
> 
> Can any of the gurus here tell me how to get the page to ignore the 
> cache so the browser shows the new photo?
> 
> Many thanks.
> 
> Tim Selander
> Tokyo, Japan




From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Tue May 30 04:31:22 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 10:31:22 +0200
Subject: LC Server and forcing page refreshes
In-Reply-To: <5fe3bd1d-45b8-16ed-b820-1b0640a401b0@tkf.att.ne.jp>
References: <5fe3bd1d-45b8-16ed-b820-1b0640a401b0@tkf.att.ne.jp>
Message-ID: <8918C785-19CF-41C7-A7FA-018E1C2D38ED@m-r-d.de>

Couldn't you disable the caching with meta html tags? See here for a explanation

https://cristian.sulea.net/blog/disable-browser-caching-with-meta-html-tags/



Regards,
Matthias


> Am 30.05.2023 um 02:32 schrieb Tim Selander via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Once again find myself over my head in just a simple programming project.
> 
> I made a little club members directory website, using LC server on on-rev's hosting site.
> 
> Members can edit their info. I use a form, with the action going to an LC script. This script gets all the post data, shuffles it off to the database, and then goes back to the member's page using a re-direct:
> 
> <meta http-equiv = "refresh" content = "2; url = <?lc put vlink?>" />
> 
> where vlink has the member's URL.
> 
> My Problem: If folk update their photos, their browser cache still shows the old picture -- logically leading them to think the update failed.
> 
> The photos are simply stored on the server, the database only stores the path of the file. The photo file shown on the member's page with an image tag.
> 
> Can any of the gurus here tell me how to get the page to ignore the cache so the browser shows the new photo?
> 
> Many thanks.
> 
> Tim Selander
> Tokyo, Japan
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Tue May 30 11:21:54 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 15:21:54 +0000
Subject: The Backdrop's Purpose In Life
In-Reply-To: <1885f2cd650.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533D49E33A7A061F57190A4B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <18413637-663f-4f3a-84a0-548d42c830d8@fourthworld.com>
 <7ba419f3-2469-ad83-f27b-96474bdb5073@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CA+JfEq92=W=17cPZMJ9R9in0bnm6Mm+26H+r+YbFf6A6xBHxPg@mail.gmail.com>
 <89d943b0-619b-d97e-3ad2-82dd00a54975@gmail.com>
 <1885f2cd650.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <SJ0PR02MB75337589569F2E1A111C2059B24B9@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>

By way of reminder I am having the issue with Windows 10, as my Ventura laptop is still down. (Apparently Apple has not fixed the boot failure problem when doing a minor system update.) 

Apparently Windows treats every open window as it's own application instance. Alt-Tabbing to an LC window only brings that one window to the front. No pallets or toolbars come with it. But enabling the backdrop fixes that. 

Bob Sneidar

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> On Behalf Of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2023 2:46 PM
To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Cc: J. Landman Gay <jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
Subject: Re: The Backdrop's Purpose In Life

Did you try Cmd-tab to cycle to another app and back? Does it also work if you bring another app to the front and then use the dock to return to LC? 
If so that would be good news.

I did find a backdrop glitch in a standalone on Monterey. Only one window showed where there should have been two.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On May 27, 2023 10:06:43 AM Richmond via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Note that the LC backdrop with LC 9.6.3 community works just fine with 
> MacOS Ventura.
>
> Kisses, Richmond.
>
> On 27.05.23 6:58, panagiotis m via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hello all,
>>
>> Note that the LC backdrop does not work on MacOS Ventura.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Panos
>>
>> On Fri, 26 May 2023, 22:23 J. Landman Gay via use-livecode, < 
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/26/23 1:14 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> Bob Sneidar wrote:
>>>>
>>>>   > HA! I just figured out what the purpose of the backdrop is!
>>>>   > If you have multiple LC windows open and you tab to another
>>>>   > app's window, then tab back to the LC window, ONLY that LC
>>>>   > window will appear in the foreground. With Backdrop on, ALL
>>>>   > the LC windows will become visible when you tab to any LC
>>>>   > window.
>>>>
>>>> The OS vendors help with that too:
>>>>
>>>> Windows: Shift-click Taskbar icon -> "Bring All Windows Forward"
>>>>
>>>> macOS:   Window menu -> Bring All to Front
>>>>
>>> Clicking the icon in the Mac Dock also brings all windows forward.
>>> --
>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From merakosp at gmail.com  Tue May 30 12:11:14 2023
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis m)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 19:11:14 +0300
Subject: The Backdrop's Purpose In Life
In-Reply-To: <SJ0PR02MB75337589569F2E1A111C2059B24B9@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533D49E33A7A061F57190A4B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <18413637-663f-4f3a-84a0-548d42c830d8@fourthworld.com>
 <7ba419f3-2469-ad83-f27b-96474bdb5073@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CA+JfEq92=W=17cPZMJ9R9in0bnm6Mm+26H+r+YbFf6A6xBHxPg@mail.gmail.com>
 <89d943b0-619b-d97e-3ad2-82dd00a54975@gmail.com>
 <1885f2cd650.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <SJ0PR02MB75337589569F2E1A111C2059B24B9@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq-Ruyk3w=1bLjz2bvoRGN-AhWcTZhVrW3bQGhCQWZv2hA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all,

@Bob
You might want to have a look at the "raiseWindows" global property.

Cheers,
Panos
--

On Tue, 30 May 2023 at 18:23, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> By way of reminder I am having the issue with Windows 10, as my Ventura
> laptop is still down. (Apparently Apple has not fixed the boot failure
> problem when doing a minor system update.)
>
> Apparently Windows treats every open window as it's own application
> instance. Alt-Tabbing to an LC window only brings that one window to the
> front. No pallets or toolbars come with it. But enabling the backdrop fixes
> that.
>
> Bob Sneidar
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> On Behalf Of
> J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
> Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2023 2:46 PM
> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Cc: J. Landman Gay <jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
> Subject: Re: The Backdrop's Purpose In Life
>
> Did you try Cmd-tab to cycle to another app and back? Does it also work if
> you bring another app to the front and then use the dock to return to LC?
> If so that would be good news.
>
> I did find a backdrop glitch in a standalone on Monterey. Only one window
> showed where there should have been two.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software |
> http://www.hyperactivesw.com On May 27, 2023 10:06:43 AM Richmond via
> use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > Note that the LC backdrop with LC 9.6.3 community works just fine with
> > MacOS Ventura.
> >
> > Kisses, Richmond.
> >
> > On 27.05.23 6:58, panagiotis m via use-livecode wrote:
> >> Hello all,
> >>
> >> Note that the LC backdrop does not work on MacOS Ventura.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Panos
> >>
> >> On Fri, 26 May 2023, 22:23 J. Landman Gay via use-livecode, <
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 5/26/23 1:14 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
> >>>> Bob Sneidar wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>   > HA! I just figured out what the purpose of the backdrop is!
> >>>>   > If you have multiple LC windows open and you tab to another
> >>>>   > app's window, then tab back to the LC window, ONLY that LC
> >>>>   > window will appear in the foreground. With Backdrop on, ALL
> >>>>   > the LC windows will become visible when you tab to any LC
> >>>>   > window.
> >>>>
> >>>> The OS vendors help with that too:
> >>>>
> >>>> Windows: Shift-click Taskbar icon -> "Bring All Windows Forward"
> >>>>
> >>>> macOS:   Window menu -> Bring All to Front
> >>>>
> >>> Clicking the icon in the Mac Dock also brings all windows forward.
> >>> --
> >>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> >>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> use-livecode mailing list
> >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >>> subscription preferences:
> >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From andrew at midwestcoastmedia.com  Wed May 31 14:39:26 2023
From: andrew at midwestcoastmedia.com (Andrew at MWCM)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2023 14:39:26 -0400
Subject: Android and USB footswitch
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1685030401.128917.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.1.1685030401.128917.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <507C5486-0188-468C-B248-8C4B9416114D@midwestcoastmedia.com>

You can open local PDFs in a LiveCode app by loading them into the Browser widget. Do you plan on compiling with the PDFs as part of your app (in the Resources folder) or trying to add to the app after the fact?

—Andrew Bell

>>> Since PDFs are not accessible via "mobilepickmedia" are there ANY other ways to add 
>>> some PDFs later without having to download them from some URL?
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 


From klaus at major-k.de  Wed May 31 14:45:27 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2023 20:45:27 +0200
Subject: Android and USB footswitch
In-Reply-To: <507C5486-0188-468C-B248-8C4B9416114D@midwestcoastmedia.com>
References: <mailman.1.1685030401.128917.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <507C5486-0188-468C-B248-8C4B9416114D@midwestcoastmedia.com>
Message-ID: <348DAFA2-554B-4E9D-B90A-B07EA0A54A8D@major-k.de>

Hi Andrew,

> Am 31.05.2023 um 20:39 schrieb Andrew at MWCM via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> You can open local PDFs in a LiveCode app by loading them into the Browser widget.

that does not work on Android! :-/
However I have a license the PDF widget.

> Do you plan on compiling with the PDFs as part of your app (in the Resources folder) or trying to add to the app after the fact?

Both! 
I have a large collection of music PDF and also want to add some later.

> —Andrew Bell
> 
>>>> Since PDFs are not accessible via "mobilepickmedia" are there ANY other ways to add 
>>>> some PDFs later without having to download them from some URL?
>> 
>> Best
>> 
>> Klaus

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From monte.goulding at livecode.com  Mon May  1 00:41:17 2023
From: monte.goulding at livecode.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Mon, 1 May 2023 14:41:17 +1000
Subject: mySQL and primary key
In-Reply-To: <03bd7225a05442bbc509c0f04c74fce6@souslelogo.com>
References: <03bd7225a05442bbc509c0f04c74fce6@souslelogo.com>
Message-ID: <5F8D6023-77A5-4DC6-BF55-AA01379697FA@livecode.com>

If you can connect remotely to the server then try using MySQL workbench (available from Oracle) if not then you will need to SSH to the server, login to mysql on command line and do it there.

> On 29 Apr 2023, at 9:40 pm, jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi list,
> 
> I have a mySQL table with 13500000 entries that weights
> almost 20 Gb.
> I need to create a primary key on the "id" column.
> I have tried in phpMyAdmin as well as in a script with
> "ALTER TABLE myTable ADD PRIMARY KEY(id)", but each time
> I get a "504 Gateway Timeout" error, and no index is created.
> 
> What else can I try ?
> 
> Thank you in advance.
> jbv
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From klaus at major-k.de  Tue May  2 09:06:24 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 15:06:24 +0200
Subject: opencard and visual effect
Message-ID: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>

Hi friends,

quick question:
Will "opencard" be sent to a card AFTER the card was navigated to
with a visual effect or already during the effect?

I cannot tell actually in my stack.


Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From craig at starfirelighting.com  Tue May  2 10:05:38 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 10:05:38 -0400
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <ACF30412-A84D-4502-AD63-1E629DB0A24E@starfirelighting.com>

Klaus.

I would guess that as soon as the card was navigated to, that is, before any visual effect starts or finishes.

Not sure how to test this since I am not sure what messages or properties might be set before, during or after a visual effect runs.

Craig

> On May 2, 2023, at 9:06 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi friends,
> 
> quick question:
> Will "opencard" be sent to a card AFTER the card was navigated to
> with a visual effect or already during the effect?
> 
> I cannot tell actually in my stack.
> 
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From dvglasgow at gmail.com  Tue May  2 10:08:13 2023
From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David Glasgow)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 15:08:13 +0100
Subject: Creating 'read only' text files
In-Reply-To: <8ba5f663-334d-1354-a5ce-18f1b08395d7@researchware.com>
References: <D2D3E180-1312-44D8-A8D5-5D65F4427359@gmail.com>
 <8ba5f663-334d-1354-a5ce-18f1b08395d7@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <024B995C-0499-467A-8D21-EBD5009B832B@gmail.com>

Perfect.  Thanks, Paul.

> On 30 Apr 2023, at 1:43 pm, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I don't know of a Livecode syntax per se to do this (i.e some syntax like: set the permissions of file tFile to read-only)
> 
> You can do this in Livecode using the shell() function (see the dictionary) to issue applicable mac or win command lines. For eample a Google search shows the command line to change a file's permissions on Windows is:
> 
> attrib +r file.txt
> 
> so you could code something like (not tested):
> 
> switch platform()
>   case "Win32"
>     set the hideConsoleWindows to true -- prevents windows console window from appears when the shell command executes
>    put "attrib +r " & quote & tFile & quote into tCommand -- were tFile is the file (path and name with native \ delimiters) you want to make read-only
>    put shell(tCommand) into tResult
>    break
>   case "MacOS"
>     -- use chmod 744 apple.txt for you to have full access and everyone else read-only OR
>     -- use chmod 444 apple.txt for everyone, you included, to be read-only
>    put "chmod 444 " & quote & tFile & quote into tCommand -- were tFile is the file (path and name) you want to make read-only
>    put shell(tCommand) into tResult
>    break
> end switch
> 
> This code may need some tweaking but I think this is the general approach to do what you want.
> 
> On 4/30/2023 7:35 AM, David V Glasgow via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hi folks,
>> 
>> Really simple question that I can’t see having been asked before, so here goes…
>> 
>> I have a stack that outputs small text files.  Each includes a hash value referencing part of itself that can be checked subsequently, so any change to the text can be flagged.
>> 
>> Is there a way I can easily create read-only files (Mac & Win) to discourage accidental user changes?  No need for encryption or hiding information anywhere, I just want to deter casual oopsies.
>> 
>> Thanks in anticipation...
>> 
>> Best Wishes,
>> 
>> David Glasgow
>> Honorary Professor, Nottingham Trent University
>> Sexual Offences, Crime and Misconduct Research Unit
>> Consultant Forensic & Clinical Psychologist
>> Carlton Glasgow Partnership
>> Director, Child & Family Training, York
>> 
>> 
>> LinkedIn <https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidvglasgow/ <https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidvglasgow/>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode <http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode <http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode>

From klaus at major-k.de  Tue May  2 10:21:18 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 16:21:18 +0200
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <ACF30412-A84D-4502-AD63-1E629DB0A24E@starfirelighting.com>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
 <ACF30412-A84D-4502-AD63-1E629DB0A24E@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <09831C08-2ED2-4AAF-A7F4-72820B632695@major-k.de>

Hi Craig,

> Am 02.05.2023 um 16:05 schrieb Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Klaus.
> 
> I would guess that as soon as the card was navigated to, that is, before any visual effect starts or finishes.
> Not sure how to test this since I am not sure what messages or properties might be set before, during or after a visual effect runs.
> 
> Craig

thank you, but I need certainty! :-)

My scenario:
...
lock screen for visual effect
set the effectrate to 300
go next cd
unlock screen with visual wipe left very slow
...

and on the "next card"  I need to measure the time until the 
user hits a certain key (1 or 2) on the keyboard like this:
-------------------------
## Script of the "next" card:
local tMillisecs

on opencard
   put the millisecs into tMillisecs
end opencard

on keydown tKey
if tKey = 1 OR tKey = 2 then
   put the millisecs - tMillisecs into tDuration
...

You get the picture, so I need to measure this precisely!



Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From dochawk at gmail.com  Tue May  2 10:25:57 2023
From: dochawk at gmail.com (doc hawk)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 07:25:57 -0700
Subject: Creating 'read only' text files
In-Reply-To: <D2D3E180-1312-44D8-A8D5-5D65F4427359@gmail.com>
References: <D2D3E180-1312-44D8-A8D5-5D65F4427359@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8AF00A73-7473-4097-B832-38377CADFF50@gmail.com>

And just to avoid the brainfreeeze that I’d probably absentmindedly implement:

You have to create the file and do all of your writing, and then *change* the file to read only . . .

Uihm, err, i never really make mistakes like that, or applying bus voltage to a whole bank of toggle switches, or . . .




From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com  Tue May  2 11:23:23 2023
From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 17:23:23 +0200
Subject: A spinner that keeps spinning
Message-ID: <A19230F3-714C-4457-A827-AAE9000E7188@gmail.com>

Hi all,

It has long annoyed me that the spinner widget doesn’t actually spin when you need it to - during lockScreen or when a database fetch blocks everything. Animated gifs are no better.

Inspired by some comment over at the forum, I embarked on building myself a tool for crafting spinners animated in browser widgets, as those would continue spinning in a heavenly layer of its own, no matter what traffic jams occur down on LC ground level… 

Of course the project grew bigger than initially planned, as they do, and is not finished yet, as they never are - but at least I have something good enough to use, and good enough to share (I think).

The stack is designed for use it in the LC IDE, to craft the spinner (or whatever animation you want) and then copy the browser widget (or just the htmlText) to wherever you want to use it. The code is completely self-sufficient (html and css all crammed in). 
One can obviously make any kind of repeating animation with it (within the limits of the current css animation lib), not only spinners. 

Here is a link to the gitHub rep:
https://github.com/wheninspace/WIS_BrowserAnimation

And here is a web deployment of it (LC10 dp5), just to prove that the resulting code also works on web.
https://wheninspace.com/browseranimation/
(Make sure to click the "Show examples” button to see some cool examples… :)

Please let me know if you find it useful (or how to improve it, if it isn't).

/Andreas

From hakan at exformedia.se  Tue May  2 11:47:33 2023
From: hakan at exformedia.se (=?utf-8?Q?H=C3=A5kan_Liljegren?=)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 17:47:33 +0200
Subject: Script widgets questions
Message-ID: <750A5A08-9A24-499B-B4E7-C1C4D991B151@exformedia.se>

Dabbling with some script widgets. Fun, but a bit tedious at the moment, but here are some findings and some questions/proposals. 

=== Findings: (Can be me missing something though…) ===

Don’t forget that you need to click the “Show Options” button in the file chooser and change the Format to “LiveCode Script” to be able to load your script widget at all in the Extension Builder. (I missed this and got very frustrated before I realised this) Often after changing the Format to “LiveCode Script” the script file is still greyed out, but you can still double-click the file to load… Unfortunately you need to set the format every time the file chooser pops up…

When creating a script widget you should use the extension builder to test it. Opening the script file, editing and saving and then creating via the command line via “create widget as …” is a bit hit and miss for me. It might be that I need to set things up better but even when trying the tutorials from the mothership it doesn’t work as expected. But opening the “Extension Builder” and then testing the widget works!

It is at the moment really easy to crash LiveCode when testing a widget. It feels like if you have almost any error in the code you might crash LiveCode, so count on that you need to save all the time and be prepared to restart often! This will certainly (hopefully?) improve as this is an early pre-release of script widgets.

When you are done testing, just close the window and LiveCode will handle everything for you or click the “Stop testing extension” button in the Extension Builder. If you use “Close and remove from memory” your test might not end properly and you might just get “Your widget is up to date” the next time you try to test it.

It is fine to “overload” properties in the widget. E.g. having a property named “backgroundColor” Is fine and your get- and setProp will be called. If you don’t add the "get propertyMetadata” for a property LiveCode will still add an entry in the inspector. This is both good and bad. Good because you can test your widget early, and bad because there seems to be no way to NOT get the property to show up. One strange finding here is that I created a “field” widget with some extra bells and whistles. So therefore I added properties for text, rtfText and htmlText. Of these I only wanted to show the text in the inspector. The htmlText and the rtfText shows up whatever I try but the text does not!? I can set the text fine via code though…


=== Questions / Proposals (Can again be me not knowing/missing something…) ===

It would be nice to be able to add properties that NOT show up in the inspector. My suggestion is that if there is a getProp propertyMetadata function only the properties included there should be included in the inspector.

When adding properties there seems to be no way to control the order they show up in the inspector!? Or is it? This makes it hard to get any logical order of the properties. This could be solved with an “order” key for each entry in propertyMetadata like:
getProp propertyMetadata[pProperty]
   switch pProperty
      case “backgroundColor"
          return {
		“order”: 1
…

It would also be nice to able to write:

getProp propertyMetadata[pProperty]
   switch pProperty
      case “backgroundColor"
          return {
		“type”: “native”
	}
…

Or some other way to support the “native” properties. A standard group in LiveCode can have colors, effects, and text settings and the colors and text settings are inherited by the controls in the group unless they have their own properties and effects are applied to the group. When creating script widgets you then need to duplicate all of this if you want to support it, and that shouldn’t be needed (IMHO). If it would be possible to just enable a tab in the inspector it would be really nice like:
getProp inspectorTabs[pTab]
	switch pTab
		case “colors”:
			return true
			break
		case “effects”
			return false
…

Or something similar to enable or disable a full tab.


But my final say is, that even if the script widgets are in an early stage, they are a really important and nice addition! So, keep up the good work!

:-Håkan

From hakan at exformedia.se  Tue May  2 11:56:30 2023
From: hakan at exformedia.se (=?utf-8?Q?H=C3=A5kan_Liljegren?=)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 17:56:30 +0200
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <126B6BDF-626C-4EDC-92F2-2796D608EF2C@exformedia.se>

AFTER!

Create two cards
Add a button or something on the first card with the code
on mouseUp
   visual effect dissolve slow
   go to next card
end mouseUp

On the second card add a control and the hide it and add the script to the card:
on opencard
   show control 1
end opencard

You will then clearly see that the first card dissolves slowly and when the transition is done the control appears (no cross-dissolve) 

The preOpenCard is run before and the openCard is run after.

:-Håkan

> On 2 May 2023, at 15:06, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi friends,
> 
> quick question:
> Will "opencard" be sent to a card AFTER the card was navigated to
> with a visual effect or already during the effect?
> 
> I cannot tell actually in my stack.
> 
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From klaus at major-k.de  Tue May  2 12:07:37 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 18:07:37 +0200
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <126B6BDF-626C-4EDC-92F2-2796D608EF2C@exformedia.se>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
 <126B6BDF-626C-4EDC-92F2-2796D608EF2C@exformedia.se>
Message-ID: <82F5C142-0548-4351-9781-EE3AFF8CE359@major-k.de>

Hi Håkan

> Am 02.05.2023 um 17:56 schrieb Håkan Liljegren via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> AFTER!
> 
> Create two cards
> Add a button or something on the first card with the code
> on mouseUp
>   visual effect dissolve slow
>   go to next card
> end mouseUp
> 
> On the second card add a control and the hide it and add the script to the card:
> on opencard
>   show control 1
> end opencard
> 
> You will then clearly see that the first card dissolves slowly and when the transition is done the control appears (no cross-dissolve) 
> The preOpenCard is run before and the openCard is run after.

hm, not sure, I made a test here by myself.

Button to go to next cd with a visual effect:
...
put the millisecs
## go_next is in the stack script and goes to the next card:
## lock screen for visual effect
## set the effectrate to 300
## go next cd
## unlock screen with visual wipe left very slow
go_next
...
Then on the "next" cd I scripted:
-----------------------------------
on opencard
  put the millisecs into tMillisecs
  put CR & tMillisecs after msg
end opencard
-----------------------------------
And I ended with this in the msg:
1683043067873
1683043067877

Only 4 millisecs difference, but with the set effectrate the difference should be at least 300!?
So I guess "opencard" is already sent BEFORE the visual effect, at least according to the above data, right?

Molto mysterioso... :-)

Someone knows exactly?

> :-Håkan
> 
>> On 2 May 2023, at 15:06, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi friends,
>> 
>> quick question:
>> Will "opencard" be sent to a card AFTER the card was navigated to
>> with a visual effect or already during the effect?
>> I cannot tell actually in my stack.

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From craig at starfirelighting.com  Tue May  2 12:16:35 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 12:16:35 -0400
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <09831C08-2ED2-4AAF-A7F4-72820B632695@major-k.de>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
 <ACF30412-A84D-4502-AD63-1E629DB0A24E@starfirelighting.com>
 <09831C08-2ED2-4AAF-A7F4-72820B632695@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <EEE21B9A-2E66-4409-9FE3-437586D67107@starfirelighting.com>

Klaus.

Why aren’t you doing this in the forum???

I made a stack with two cards. Card 1 has a button on it:

global tTime

on mouseUp

put the ticks into tTime

visual effect "checkerBoard" slow

go cd 2

end mouseUp



In the card 2 script:

global tTime

on openCard

put the ticks - tTime into fld 2

end openCard



I get about 60 ticks, so it seems the message is sent AFTER the visual effect completes. Know that with “preOpenCard” I get 0 ticks; the message is sent before the visual effect.

Craig


> On May 2, 2023, at 10:21 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Craig,
> 
>> Am 02.05.2023 um 16:05 schrieb Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Klaus.
>> 
>> I would guess that as soon as the card was navigated to, that is, before any visual effect starts or finishes.
>> Not sure how to test this since I am not sure what messages or properties might be set before, during or after a visual effect runs.
>> 
>> Craig
> 
> thank you, but I need certainty! :-)
> 
> My scenario:
> ...
> lock screen for visual effect
> set the effectrate to 300
> go next cd
> unlock screen with visual wipe left very slow
> ...
> 
> and on the "next card"  I need to measure the time until the 
> user hits a certain key (1 or 2) on the keyboard like this:
> -------------------------
> ## Script of the "next" card:
> local tMillisecs
> 
> on opencard
>   put the millisecs into tMillisecs
> end opencard
> 
> on keydown tKey
> if tKey = 1 OR tKey = 2 then
>   put the millisecs - tMillisecs into tDuration
> ...
> 
> You get the picture, so I need to measure this precisely!
> 
> 
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From klaus at major-k.de  Tue May  2 12:18:21 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 18:18:21 +0200
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <82F5C142-0548-4351-9781-EE3AFF8CE359@major-k.de>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
 <126B6BDF-626C-4EDC-92F2-2796D608EF2C@exformedia.se>
 <82F5C142-0548-4351-9781-EE3AFF8CE359@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <F5D4790D-B6CD-4CD0-ACD2-B9370D93DE63@major-k.de>

Hi all,

> Am 02.05.2023 um 18:07 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi Håkan
> 
>> Am 02.05.2023 um 17:56 schrieb Håkan Liljegren via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> AFTER!
>> 
>> Create two cards
>> Add a button or something on the first card with the code
>> on mouseUp
>>  visual effect dissolve slow
>>  go to next card
>> end mouseUp
>> 
>> On the second card add a control and the hide it and add the script to the card:
>> on opencard
>>  show control 1
>> end opencard
>> 
>> You will then clearly see that the first card dissolves slowly and when the transition is done the control appears (no cross-dissolve) 
>> The preOpenCard is run before and the openCard is run after.
> 
> hm, not sure, I made a test here by myself.
> 
> Button to go to next cd with a visual effect:
> ...
> put the millisecs
> ## go_next is in the stack script and goes to the next card:
> ## lock screen for visual effect
> ## set the effectrate to 300
> ## go next cd
> ## unlock screen with visual wipe left very slow
> go_next
> ...
> Then on the "next" cd I scripted:
> -----------------------------------
> on opencard
>  put the millisecs into tMillisecs
>  put CR & tMillisecs after msg
> end opencard
> -----------------------------------
> And I ended with this in the msg:
> 1683043067873
> 1683043067877
> 
> Only 4 millisecs difference, but with the set effectrate the difference should be at least 300!?
> So I guess "opencard" is already sent BEFORE the visual effect, at least according to the above data, right?
> 
> Molto mysterioso... :-)
> 
> Someone knows exactly?

obviously there is a big difference by using:
----------------------------
lock screen for visual effect
go next
unlock screen...
----------------------------
And:
----------------------------
 visual effect ...
 go to next card
----------------------------
Using the latter I get this in the msg:
1683043997883
1683043998101

Not the full 300 millisecs difference as exspected by the effectrate, but more than in my first test.

Someone knowing please chime in! :-)


Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Tue May  2 12:18:34 2023
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 12:18:34 -0400
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <82F5C142-0548-4351-9781-EE3AFF8CE359@major-k.de>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
 <126B6BDF-626C-4EDC-92F2-2796D608EF2C@exformedia.se>
 <82F5C142-0548-4351-9781-EE3AFF8CE359@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <004a01d97d11$c116e740$4344b5c0$@net>

The rendering get done after preOpenCard completes. In preOpenCard you can set up your data and geometry before the card is displayed. Try timing from the start of preOpenCard to start the openCard handlers.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net


-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Klaus major-k via use-livecode
Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2023 12:08 PM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Klaus major-k
Subject: Re: opencard and visual effect

Hi Håkan

> Am 02.05.2023 um 17:56 schrieb Håkan Liljegren via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> AFTER!
> 
> Create two cards
> Add a button or something on the first card with the code on mouseUp
>   visual effect dissolve slow
>   go to next card
> end mouseUp
> 
> On the second card add a control and the hide it and add the script to the card:
> on opencard
>   show control 1
> end opencard
> 
> You will then clearly see that the first card dissolves slowly and 
> when the transition is done the control appears (no cross-dissolve) The preOpenCard is run before and the openCard is run after.

hm, not sure, I made a test here by myself.

Button to go to next cd with a visual effect:
...
put the millisecs
## go_next is in the stack script and goes to the next card:
## lock screen for visual effect
## set the effectrate to 300
## go next cd
## unlock screen with visual wipe left very slow go_next ...
Then on the "next" cd I scripted:
-----------------------------------
on opencard
  put the millisecs into tMillisecs
  put CR & tMillisecs after msg
end opencard
-----------------------------------
And I ended with this in the msg:
1683043067873
1683043067877

Only 4 millisecs difference, but with the set effectrate the difference should be at least 300!?
So I guess "opencard" is already sent BEFORE the visual effect, at least according to the above data, right?

Molto mysterioso... :-)

Someone knows exactly?

> :-Håkan
> 
>> On 2 May 2023, at 15:06, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi friends,
>> 
>> quick question:
>> Will "opencard" be sent to a card AFTER the card was navigated to 
>> with a visual effect or already during the effect?
>> I cannot tell actually in my stack.

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de


_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From klaus at major-k.de  Tue May  2 12:21:54 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 18:21:54 +0200
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <EEE21B9A-2E66-4409-9FE3-437586D67107@starfirelighting.com>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
 <ACF30412-A84D-4502-AD63-1E629DB0A24E@starfirelighting.com>
 <09831C08-2ED2-4AAF-A7F4-72820B632695@major-k.de>
 <EEE21B9A-2E66-4409-9FE3-437586D67107@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <51DC6B91-5028-4195-9544-C39F1002B9D9@major-k.de>

Craig,

> Am 02.05.2023 um 18:16 schrieb Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Klaus.
> 
> Why aren’t you doing this in the forum???

this is a free country, I can do it whereever I like! :-D

> I made a stack with two cards. Card 1 has a button on it:
> 
> global tTime
> 
> on mouseUp
> put the ticks into tTime
> visual effect "checkerBoard" slow
> go cd 2
> end mouseUp
> 
> In the card 2 script:
> global tTime
> on openCard
> put the ticks - tTime into fld 2
> end openCard
> 
> I get about 60 ticks, so it seems the message is sent AFTER the visual effect completes. Know that with “preOpenCard” I get 0 ticks; the message is sent before the visual effect.
> 
> Craig

See my last mail, which is even more irritating...


Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue May  2 12:59:25 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 02 May 2023 11:59:25 -0500
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <F5D4790D-B6CD-4CD0-ACD2-B9370D93DE63@major-k.de>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
 <126B6BDF-626C-4EDC-92F2-2796D608EF2C@exformedia.se>
 <82F5C142-0548-4351-9781-EE3AFF8CE359@major-k.de>
 <F5D4790D-B6CD-4CD0-ACD2-B9370D93DE63@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <187dd6791c8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

Open the message watcher and compare its report to what you see on screen. 
That might help.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 2, 2023 11:19:41 AM Klaus major-k via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> Someone knowing please chime in! :-)





From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Tue May  2 12:59:49 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 12:59:49 -0400
Subject: Script widgets questions
In-Reply-To: <750A5A08-9A24-499B-B4E7-C1C4D991B151@exformedia.se>
References: <750A5A08-9A24-499B-B4E7-C1C4D991B151@exformedia.se>
Message-ID: <CADCoycPgwONR4RR25uTs=SzO1XCMnFL-qOG3hBPuQWi_g3nVkA@mail.gmail.com>

this is all going to be from memory from working with LCB widgets, and i
haven't worked with lcb widgets in months because i'm still waiting for LC
on several things.
anyway:
* i think that you are supposed to quote property names that are reserved
or already in use
* the way the property inspectors/property editor behave can be/are up to
you, but the documentation is zero. the PI is a stack in the LC bundle, and
it's intertwined with a number of other stacks, so slogging through it is
slow.
* you could try the repos i started on these topics, and maybe throw some
issues in:
https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual (wiki here:
https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual/wiki)
https://github.com/macMikey/LC-HACK

From klaus at major-k.de  Tue May  2 13:08:21 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 19:08:21 +0200
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <187dd6791c8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
 <126B6BDF-626C-4EDC-92F2-2796D608EF2C@exformedia.se>
 <82F5C142-0548-4351-9781-EE3AFF8CE359@major-k.de>
 <F5D4790D-B6CD-4CD0-ACD2-B9370D93DE63@major-k.de>
 <187dd6791c8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <64F00104-F165-4853-8898-B64CA836A510@major-k.de>

Hi Jacque,

> Am 02.05.2023 um 18:59 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Open the message watcher and compare its report to what you see on screen. That might help.

I did and see this:
...
preopencard 7:01:46 PM (0)
opencard 7:01:46 (3)
...
I may be a bit slow, but what does the three millisecs difference tell me? 8-)
That everyting (pre- and opencard) does in fact happen AFTER the visual effect?


Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From craig at starfirelighting.com  Tue May  2 13:17:45 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 13:17:45 -0400
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <64F00104-F165-4853-8898-B64CA836A510@major-k.de>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
 <126B6BDF-626C-4EDC-92F2-2796D608EF2C@exformedia.se>
 <82F5C142-0548-4351-9781-EE3AFF8CE359@major-k.de>
 <F5D4790D-B6CD-4CD0-ACD2-B9370D93DE63@major-k.de>
 <187dd6791c8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <64F00104-F165-4853-8898-B64CA836A510@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <3DCF70F5-0BA3-46C0-97C7-55EFA39FC595@starfirelighting.com>

Klaus.

Come back from the dark side. If you do I will send you the stack I made that seems to indicate that “openCard” is sent after the visual effect terminates.

Craig

> On May 2, 2023, at 1:08 PM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Jacque,
> 
>> Am 02.05.2023 um 18:59 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Open the message watcher and compare its report to what you see on screen. That might help.
> 
> I did and see this:
> ...
> preopencard 7:01:46 PM (0)
> opencard 7:01:46 (3)
> ...
> I may be a bit slow, but what does the three millisecs difference tell me? 8-)
> That everyting (pre- and opencard) does in fact happen AFTER the visual effect?
> 
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From craig at starfirelighting.com  Tue May  2 13:19:03 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 13:19:03 -0400
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <64F00104-F165-4853-8898-B64CA836A510@major-k.de>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
 <126B6BDF-626C-4EDC-92F2-2796D608EF2C@exformedia.se>
 <82F5C142-0548-4351-9781-EE3AFF8CE359@major-k.de>
 <F5D4790D-B6CD-4CD0-ACD2-B9370D93DE63@major-k.de>
 <187dd6791c8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <64F00104-F165-4853-8898-B64CA836A510@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <F9B5AE76-B752-4E58-9E0E-999A912A9196@starfirelighting.com>

Jacque.

Go to the forum. I did just that, and the “openCard” message appears in the message watcher exactly after the visual effect finishes.

Craig

> On May 2, 2023, at 1:08 PM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Jacque,
> 
>> Am 02.05.2023 um 18:59 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Open the message watcher and compare its report to what you see on screen. That might help.
> 
> I did and see this:
> ...
> preopencard 7:01:46 PM (0)
> opencard 7:01:46 (3)
> ...
> I may be a bit slow, but what does the three millisecs difference tell me? 8-)
> That everyting (pre- and opencard) does in fact happen AFTER the visual effect?
> 
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From klaus at major-k.de  Tue May  2 13:28:48 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 19:28:48 +0200
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <3DCF70F5-0BA3-46C0-97C7-55EFA39FC595@starfirelighting.com>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
 <126B6BDF-626C-4EDC-92F2-2796D608EF2C@exformedia.se>
 <82F5C142-0548-4351-9781-EE3AFF8CE359@major-k.de>
 <F5D4790D-B6CD-4CD0-ACD2-B9370D93DE63@major-k.de>
 <187dd6791c8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <64F00104-F165-4853-8898-B64CA836A510@major-k.de>
 <3DCF70F5-0BA3-46C0-97C7-55EFA39FC595@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <0FDD9016-F168-45DF-B6BB-289C8DDAFBAB@major-k.de>

Hi Craig,

> Am 02.05.2023 um 19:17 schrieb Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Klaus.
> 
> Come back from the dark side.

I have no idea why you are so possessed by the forum, is it a fetish thing? :-D

Here on the list I already see more than 10 postings to my question, try to outgun
this with the forum. 8-)

> If you do I will send you the stack I made that seems to indicate that “openCard” is sent after the visual effect terminates.

Thank you, but I do not need any other example stack, I want to know it with my stack and I also want to know 
why there are differences between the two ways of going to the next card with a visual effect. See my last mails...

> Craig
>> On May 2, 2023, at 1:08 PM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> Hi Jacque,
>>> Am 02.05.2023 um 18:59 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> Open the message watcher and compare its report to what you see on screen. That might help.
>> I did and see this:
>> ...
>> preopencard 7:01:46 PM (0)
>> opencard 7:01:46 (3)
>> ...
>> I may be a bit slow, but what does the three millisecs difference tell me? 8-)
>> That everyting (pre- and opencard) does in fact happen AFTER the visual effect?

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From Bernd.Niggemann at uni-wh.de  Tue May  2 14:43:24 2023
From: Bernd.Niggemann at uni-wh.de (Niggemann, Bernd)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 18:43:24 +0000
Subject: A spinner that keeps spinning
Message-ID: <0417C21C-5C82-4A20-BC0E-FC5B00A87B94@uni-wh.de>

Andreas Bergendal wrote:

> Inspired by some comment over at the forum, I embarked on building myself a 
> tool for crafting spinners animated in browser widgets, as those would continue 
> spinning in a heavenly layer of its own, no matter what traffic jams occur down 
> on LC ground level… 

Thank you for this amazing stack/WebApp.

It is very, very cool.

Kind regards
Bernd

From hakan at exformedia.se  Tue May  2 17:00:05 2023
From: hakan at exformedia.se (=?utf-8?Q?H=C3=A5kan_Liljegren?=)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 23:00:05 +0200
Subject: Script widgets questions
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycPgwONR4RR25uTs=SzO1XCMnFL-qOG3hBPuQWi_g3nVkA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <750A5A08-9A24-499B-B4E7-C1C4D991B151@exformedia.se>
 <CADCoycPgwONR4RR25uTs=SzO1XCMnFL-qOG3hBPuQWi_g3nVkA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <589A4A0F-142C-489C-820D-2DB5596B58B2@exformedia.se>

Thanks!

The “user_visible" works with script_widgets also, so setting:

case “htmlText”
	return { “user_visible” : false } 
	…

Will hide the property in the inspector. Unfortunately the “group” or “subsection” doesn’t seem to work. All my properties are still jumbled.

> On 2 May 2023, at 18:59, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> this is all going to be from memory from working with LCB widgets, and i
> haven't worked with lcb widgets in months because i'm still waiting for LC
> on several things.
> anyway:
> * i think that you are supposed to quote property names that are reserved
> or already in use
> * the way the property inspectors/property editor behave can be/are up to
> you, but the documentation is zero. the PI is a stack in the LC bundle, and
> it's intertwined with a number of other stacks, so slogging through it is
> slow.
> * you could try the repos i started on these topics, and maybe throw some
> issues in:
> https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual (wiki here:
> https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual/wiki)
> https://github.com/macMikey/LC-HACK
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From craig at starfirelighting.com  Tue May  2 17:00:24 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 17:00:24 -0400
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <0FDD9016-F168-45DF-B6BB-289C8DDAFBAB@major-k.de>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
 <126B6BDF-626C-4EDC-92F2-2796D608EF2C@exformedia.se>
 <82F5C142-0548-4351-9781-EE3AFF8CE359@major-k.de>
 <F5D4790D-B6CD-4CD0-ACD2-B9370D93DE63@major-k.de>
 <187dd6791c8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <64F00104-F165-4853-8898-B64CA836A510@major-k.de>
 <3DCF70F5-0BA3-46C0-97C7-55EFA39FC595@starfirelighting.com>
 <0FDD9016-F168-45DF-B6BB-289C8DDAFBAB@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <29F847B2-0636-4462-826F-F473F773A439@starfirelighting.com>

Klaus.

It is a works-much-better thing. Script samples and quotes can be separated from the main body of text. One can attach stacks and, for Richmond at least, silly photos and art layouts. One can edit past posts, or even delete them.

One can search threads in many ways.  MANY.

I was going to attach an emoji, but, well, we are in the use-list.

Otherwise, nothing significant.

Craig

> On May 2, 2023, at 1:28 PM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Craig,
> 
>> Am 02.05.2023 um 19:17 schrieb Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Klaus.
>> 
>> Come back from the dark side.
> 
> I have no idea why you are so possessed by the forum, is it a fetish thing? :-D
> 
> Here on the list I already see more than 10 postings to my question, try to outgun
> this with the forum. 8-)
> 
>> If you do I will send you the stack I made that seems to indicate that “openCard” is sent after the visual effect terminates.
> 
> Thank you, but I do not need any other example stack, I want to know it with my stack and I also want to know 
> why there are differences between the two ways of going to the next card with a visual effect. See my last mails...
> 
>> Craig
>>> On May 2, 2023, at 1:08 PM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Jacque,
>>>> Am 02.05.2023 um 18:59 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>> Open the message watcher and compare its report to what you see on screen. That might help.
>>> I did and see this:
>>> ...
>>> preopencard 7:01:46 PM (0)
>>> opencard 7:01:46 (3)
>>> ...
>>> I may be a bit slow, but what does the three millisecs difference tell me? 8-)
>>> That everyting (pre- and opencard) does in fact happen AFTER the visual effect?
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Tue May  2 17:10:57 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 17:10:57 -0400
Subject: Script widgets questions
In-Reply-To: <589A4A0F-142C-489C-820D-2DB5596B58B2@exformedia.se>
References: <750A5A08-9A24-499B-B4E7-C1C4D991B151@exformedia.se>
 <CADCoycPgwONR4RR25uTs=SzO1XCMnFL-qOG3hBPuQWi_g3nVkA@mail.gmail.com>
 <589A4A0F-142C-489C-820D-2DB5596B58B2@exformedia.se>
Message-ID: <CADCoycMLYdTO0ih+pBB8Qo5sbvViyrarihit2gc8W5EFR0ahNQ@mail.gmail.com>

if you're reusing properties that are already defined, elsewhere, you might
run into an issue with the panel, but if that's not the case, then i
suspect you have another problem. the pi works. it's just not documented.

On Tue, May 2, 2023 at 5:01 PM Håkan Liljegren via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Thanks!
>
> The “user_visible" works with script_widgets also, so setting:
>
> case “htmlText”
>         return { “user_visible” : false }
>         …
>
> Will hide the property in the inspector. Unfortunately the “group” or
> “subsection” doesn’t seem to work. All my properties are still jumbled.
>
> > On 2 May 2023, at 18:59, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > this is all going to be from memory from working with LCB widgets, and i
> > haven't worked with lcb widgets in months because i'm still waiting for
> LC
> > on several things.
> > anyway:
> > * i think that you are supposed to quote property names that are reserved
> > or already in use
> > * the way the property inspectors/property editor behave can be/are up to
> > you, but the documentation is zero. the PI is a stack in the LC bundle,
> and
> > it's intertwined with a number of other stacks, so slogging through it is
> > slow.
> > * you could try the repos i started on these topics, and maybe throw some
> > issues in:
> > https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual (wiki here:
> > https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual/wiki)
> > https://github.com/macMikey/LC-HACK
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Tue May  2 17:14:46 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 21:14:46 +0000
Subject: A spinner that keeps spinning
In-Reply-To: <A19230F3-714C-4457-A827-AAE9000E7188@gmail.com>
References: <A19230F3-714C-4457-A827-AAE9000E7188@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A9A7ABA0-1A4B-4552-959C-89AF42789260@iotecdigital.com>

That is pretty cool. I created a Spinner app which is a standalone that responds to AppleScript commands or Sockets. Since it is a standalone, it runs under it's own thread. I created internal commands to show or hide itself, as well as setting the displayed message. Using browser widgets seems a better implementation though. 

Bob S


> On May 2, 2023, at 08:23, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> It has long annoyed me that the spinner widget doesn’t actually spin when you need it to - during lockScreen or when a database fetch blocks everything. Animated gifs are no better.
> 
> Inspired by some comment over at the forum, I embarked on building myself a tool for crafting spinners animated in browser widgets, as those would continue spinning in a heavenly layer of its own, no matter what traffic jams occur down on LC ground level… 
> 
> Of course the project grew bigger than initially planned, as they do, and is not finished yet, as they never are - but at least I have something good enough to use, and good enough to share (I think).
> 
> The stack is designed for use it in the LC IDE, to craft the spinner (or whatever animation you want) and then copy the browser widget (or just the htmlText) to wherever you want to use it. The code is completely self-sufficient (html and css all crammed in). 
> One can obviously make any kind of repeating animation with it (within the limits of the current css animation lib), not only spinners. 
> 
> Here is a link to the gitHub rep:
> https://github.com/wheninspace/WIS_BrowserAnimation
> 
> And here is a web deployment of it (LC10 dp5), just to prove that the resulting code also works on web.
> https://wheninspace.com/browseranimation/
> (Make sure to click the "Show examples” button to see some cool examples… :)
> 
> Please let me know if you find it useful (or how to improve it, if it isn't).
> 
> /Andreas
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bogdanoff at me.com  Tue May  2 18:23:01 2023
From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 18:23:01 -0400
Subject: A spinner that keeps spinning
In-Reply-To: <0417C21C-5C82-4A20-BC0E-FC5B00A87B94@uni-wh.de>
References: <0417C21C-5C82-4A20-BC0E-FC5B00A87B94@uni-wh.de>
Message-ID: <74501A14-9FF2-443C-A72B-F955CE6DAA80@me.com>

This is great, thank you!

Peter Bogdanoff

> On May 2, 2023, at 2:43 PM, Niggemann, Bernd via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Andreas Bergendal wrote:
> 
>> Inspired by some comment over at the forum, I embarked on building myself a 
>> tool for crafting spinners animated in browser widgets, as those would continue 
>> spinning in a heavenly layer of its own, no matter what traffic jams occur down 
>> on LC ground level… 
> 
> Thank you for this amazing stack/WebApp.
> 
> It is very, very cool.
> 
> Kind regards
> Bernd
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue May  2 18:52:13 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 02 May 2023 17:52:13 -0500
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <29F847B2-0636-4462-826F-F473F773A439@starfirelighting.com>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
 <126B6BDF-626C-4EDC-92F2-2796D608EF2C@exformedia.se>
 <82F5C142-0548-4351-9781-EE3AFF8CE359@major-k.de>
 <F5D4790D-B6CD-4CD0-ACD2-B9370D93DE63@major-k.de>
 <187dd6791c8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <64F00104-F165-4853-8898-B64CA836A510@major-k.de>
 <3DCF70F5-0BA3-46C0-97C7-55EFA39FC595@starfirelighting.com>
 <0FDD9016-F168-45DF-B6BB-289C8DDAFBAB@major-k.de>
 <29F847B2-0636-4462-826F-F473F773A439@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <187deaa9148.2804.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

Well, it works better for *you*. I want info to come to me, I don't want to 
search. My right hand doesn't like all that clicking, I have a brace for 
that, and you can't navigate the forum from the keyboard. I want the digest 
to appear in my email where I can scan quickly and immediately jump to a 
post when I want to respond.

I don't care about all the unnecessary images and almost never download 
stacks from the forum so I don't miss them here. But also, most of the old 
timers are here on the list which can provide a wider pool of expertise.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 2, 2023 4:03:10 PM Craig Newman via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Klaus.
>
> It is a works-much-better thing. Script samples and quotes can be separated 
> from the main body of text. One can attach stacks and, for Richmond at 
> least, silly photos and art layouts. One can edit past posts, or even 
> delete them.
>
> One can search threads in many ways.  MANY.
>
> I was going to attach an emoji, but, well, we are in the use-list.
>
> Otherwise, nothing significant.
>
> Craig
>
>> On May 2, 2023, at 1:28 PM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Craig,
>>
>>> Am 02.05.2023 um 19:17 schrieb Craig Newman via use-livecode 
>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>
>>> Klaus.
>>>
>>> Come back from the dark side.
>>
>> I have no idea why you are so possessed by the forum, is it a fetish thing? :-D
>>
>> Here on the list I already see more than 10 postings to my question, try to 
>> outgun
>> this with the forum. 8-)
>>
>>> If you do I will send you the stack I made that seems to indicate that 
>>> openCard is sent after the visual effect terminates.
>>
>> Thank you, but I do not need any other example stack, I want to know it 
>> with my stack and I also want to know
>> why there are differences between the two ways of going to the next card 
>> with a visual effect. See my last mails...
>>
>>> Craig
>>>> On May 2, 2023, at 1:08 PM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode 
>>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi Jacque,
>>>>> Am 02.05.2023 um 18:59 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>>>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>>> Open the message watcher and compare its report to what you see on screen. 
>>>>> That might help.
>>>> I did and see this:
>>>> ...
>>>> preopencard 7:01:46 PM (0)
>>>> opencard 7:01:46 (3)
>>>> ...
>>>> I may be a bit slow, but what does the three millisecs difference tell me? 8-)
>>>> That everyting (pre- and opencard) does in fact happen AFTER the visual effect?
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Klaus
>>
>> --
>> Klaus Major
>> https://www.major-k.de
>> https://www.major-k.de/bass
>> klaus at major-k.de
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Tue May  2 18:56:04 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 22:56:04 +0000
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <187deaa9148.2804.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
 <126B6BDF-626C-4EDC-92F2-2796D608EF2C@exformedia.se>
 <82F5C142-0548-4351-9781-EE3AFF8CE359@major-k.de>
 <F5D4790D-B6CD-4CD0-ACD2-B9370D93DE63@major-k.de>
 <187dd6791c8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <64F00104-F165-4853-8898-B64CA836A510@major-k.de>
 <3DCF70F5-0BA3-46C0-97C7-55EFA39FC595@starfirelighting.com>
 <0FDD9016-F168-45DF-B6BB-289C8DDAFBAB@major-k.de>
 <29F847B2-0636-4462-826F-F473F773A439@starfirelighting.com>
 <187deaa9148.2804.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <2596BAD8-7E90-4FCB-B292-A805CC911D15@iotecdigital.com>

I can attest that as an old timer, if I am not very careful, I can provide a very wide pool. ;-)

Bob S

On May 2, 2023, at 15:52, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

Well, it works better for *you*. I want info to come to me, I don't want to search. My right hand doesn't like all that clicking, I have a brace for that, and you can't navigate the forum from the keyboard. I want the digest to appear in my email where I can scan quickly and immediately jump to a post when I want to respond.

I don't care about all the unnecessary images and almost never download stacks from the forum so I don't miss them here. But also, most of the old timers are here on the list which can provide a wider pool of expertise.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com<mailto:jacque at hyperactivesw.com>


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed May  3 00:25:50 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 02 May 2023 23:25:50 -0500
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <2596BAD8-7E90-4FCB-B292-A805CC911D15@iotecdigital.com>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
 <126B6BDF-626C-4EDC-92F2-2796D608EF2C@exformedia.se>
 <82F5C142-0548-4351-9781-EE3AFF8CE359@major-k.de>
 <F5D4790D-B6CD-4CD0-ACD2-B9370D93DE63@major-k.de>
 <187dd6791c8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <64F00104-F165-4853-8898-B64CA836A510@major-k.de>
 <3DCF70F5-0BA3-46C0-97C7-55EFA39FC595@starfirelighting.com>
 <0FDD9016-F168-45DF-B6BB-289C8DDAFBAB@major-k.de>
 <29F847B2-0636-4462-826F-F473F773A439@starfirelighting.com>
 <187deaa9148.2804.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <2596BAD8-7E90-4FCB-B292-A805CC911D15@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <187dfdc00b0.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

You and my husband should go have a drink together. ;)
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 2, 2023 5:58:07 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I can attest that as an old timer, if I am not very careful, I can provide 
> a very wide pool. ;-)





From roland.huettmann at gmail.com  Wed May  3 05:36:05 2023
From: roland.huettmann at gmail.com (R.H.)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2023 11:36:05 +0200
Subject: A spinner that keeps spinning
Message-ID: <CAG1Q0g9x6zhzyxhEqY-jvXk8GUf8GNtksrypeBUKD_f5R7-SNw@mail.gmail.com>

Andreas, a very nice work and helpful for many projects.

I habe tested your stack briefly on Windows 11 and so far, all is working
very well. I have never tested several browser widgets at once on one card.

Thank you.

Roland

From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Wed May  3 07:55:30 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2023 07:55:30 -0400
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <187dfdc00b0.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
 <126B6BDF-626C-4EDC-92F2-2796D608EF2C@exformedia.se>
 <82F5C142-0548-4351-9781-EE3AFF8CE359@major-k.de>
 <F5D4790D-B6CD-4CD0-ACD2-B9370D93DE63@major-k.de>
 <187dd6791c8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <64F00104-F165-4853-8898-B64CA836A510@major-k.de>
 <3DCF70F5-0BA3-46C0-97C7-55EFA39FC595@starfirelighting.com>
 <0FDD9016-F168-45DF-B6BB-289C8DDAFBAB@major-k.de>
 <29F847B2-0636-4462-826F-F473F773A439@starfirelighting.com>
 <187deaa9148.2804.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <2596BAD8-7E90-4FCB-B292-A805CC911D15@iotecdigital.com>
 <187dfdc00b0.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycOcmV5Xx7Y0Z+3DHtfMca06j4uufvVYyULUcFRmc5S3Hw@mail.gmail.com>

not on the forums.
the bigger brains are here.
less noise here
better behavior here

On Wed, May 3, 2023 at 12:27 AM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> You and my husband should go have a drink together. ;)
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On May 2, 2023 5:58:07 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode
> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > I can attest that as an old timer, if I am not very careful, I can
> provide
> > a very wide pool. ;-)
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From klaus at major-k.de  Wed May  3 08:25:16 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2023 14:25:16 +0200
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <64F00104-F165-4853-8898-B64CA836A510@major-k.de>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
 <126B6BDF-626C-4EDC-92F2-2796D608EF2C@exformedia.se>
 <82F5C142-0548-4351-9781-EE3AFF8CE359@major-k.de>
 <F5D4790D-B6CD-4CD0-ACD2-B9370D93DE63@major-k.de>
 <187dd6791c8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <64F00104-F165-4853-8898-B64CA836A510@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <31DB6D0E-7F1F-4A92-831F-7685D436FE2F@major-k.de>

Hi all,

> 
>> Am 02.05.2023 um 18:59 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Open the message watcher and compare its report to what you see on screen. That might help.
> 
> I did and see this:
> ...
> preopencard 7:01:46 PM (0)
> opencard 7:01:46 (3)
> ...
> I may be a bit slow, but what does the three millisecs difference tell me? 8-)
> That everyting (pre- and opencard) does in fact happen AFTER the visual effect?

any hints still welcome...


Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From craig at starfirelighting.com  Wed May  3 09:29:29 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2023 09:29:29 -0400
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <31DB6D0E-7F1F-4A92-831F-7685D436FE2F@major-k.de>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
 <126B6BDF-626C-4EDC-92F2-2796D608EF2C@exformedia.se>
 <82F5C142-0548-4351-9781-EE3AFF8CE359@major-k.de>
 <F5D4790D-B6CD-4CD0-ACD2-B9370D93DE63@major-k.de>
 <187dd6791c8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <64F00104-F165-4853-8898-B64CA836A510@major-k.de>
 <31DB6D0E-7F1F-4A92-831F-7685D436FE2F@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <DF5CF379-B0AB-4832-8BA0-A0BC03DE2C6E@starfirelighting.com>

Klaus.

That was fun.

Oh yes, the point of this thread.  To me it seems that preOpenCard is sent before, and openCard is sent after the effect terminates. The fact that you have 0 and 3 ticks is no different than having 0 and 125 ticks, The speed of the visual effect is not pertinent.

Well, except for the speed of the visual effect. -;)

Note pitiful “wink” emoji above.

Craig

> On May 3, 2023, at 8:25 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
>> 
>>> Am 02.05.2023 um 18:59 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> Open the message watcher and compare its report to what you see on screen. That might help.
>> 
>> I did and see this:
>> ...
>> preopencard 7:01:46 PM (0)
>> opencard 7:01:46 (3)
>> ...
>> I may be a bit slow, but what does the three millisecs difference tell me? 8-)
>> That everyting (pre- and opencard) does in fact happen AFTER the visual effect?
> 
> any hints still welcome...
> 
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From klaus at major-k.de  Wed May  3 11:35:13 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2023 17:35:13 +0200
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <DF5CF379-B0AB-4832-8BA0-A0BC03DE2C6E@starfirelighting.com>
References: <05CBD93E-7A9F-4473-8378-E29652B60684@major-k.de>
 <126B6BDF-626C-4EDC-92F2-2796D608EF2C@exformedia.se>
 <82F5C142-0548-4351-9781-EE3AFF8CE359@major-k.de>
 <F5D4790D-B6CD-4CD0-ACD2-B9370D93DE63@major-k.de>
 <187dd6791c8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <64F00104-F165-4853-8898-B64CA836A510@major-k.de>
 <31DB6D0E-7F1F-4A92-831F-7685D436FE2F@major-k.de>
 <DF5CF379-B0AB-4832-8BA0-A0BC03DE2C6E@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <10EBE68B-1CD4-448D-B396-1365AF75A25D@major-k.de>

Hi Craig,

> Am 03.05.2023 um 15:29 schrieb Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Klaus.
> 
> That was fun.

WAS? :-D

> Oh yes, the point of this thread.  To me it seems that preOpenCard is sent before, and openCard is sent after the effect terminates.

Obviously not, take another look at my results from the Message Watcher:
...
preopencard 7:01:46 PM (0)
opencard 7:01:46 (3)
...
Three milliseconds, not ticks, difference for a visual effect with the "effectrate" set to 300?
It LOOKS like 300 milliseconds, but definitively not like 3 millseconds.
That would be a tiny flashing, if at all.

So what is wrong here?
the effectrate?
the message watcher?
openCard is sent after the effect terminates? The above results show the opposite. 
Not?

Problem for me ist to measure the time until the user hits a key after a question 
appears on the screen on the card. 
And I start this on "opencard", so the VISUAL effect, what the user really sees,
MUST have been terminated, but obviously "opencard" does not respect this.
Or am I completely wrong here? Wouldn't be the first time...

As a workaround I'll leave the visual effect out, temporarily. 8-)

> The fact that you have 0 and 3 ticks

> is no different than having 0 and 125 ticks, The speed of the visual effect is not pertinent.
> Well, except for the speed of the visual effect. -;)
> Note pitiful “wink” emoji above.

Nudge, nudge! :-D

> Craig

Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com  Wed May  3 13:44:15 2023
From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2023 19:44:15 +0200
Subject: A spinner that keeps spinning
Message-ID: <FD7F3D2F-8E5A-454E-84E4-E404851CE5B1@gmail.com>

Thanks everyone for testing it and for your kind comments. :D

I have now updated the tool with the possibility to set the duration of the animations. This is quite good, as many of the animation effects are rather frantic, but with this new ability to slow them down they become more useful in my opinion.

Also, combining two animation effects becomes more interesting now when you can balance their durations independently, making for more varied movements.

And even better, I have also added… *drumroll* … more fish!
Eh, in the examples sections that is. It really is worth another visit to the web deployment just to see the fish, I promise! And the crab (proving that the animations continue during the move command too… ;-)

/Andreas

From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Wed May  3 13:48:40 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2023 13:48:40 -0400
Subject: A spinner that keeps spinning
In-Reply-To: <FD7F3D2F-8E5A-454E-84E4-E404851CE5B1@gmail.com>
References: <FD7F3D2F-8E5A-454E-84E4-E404851CE5B1@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycMoyxAUKvHkD23u=1PTB8oHmEpvzEMc5qjqE4mebvKXxw@mail.gmail.com>

Until there are threads
we have Andreas

On Wed, May 3, 2023 at 1:45 PM Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Thanks everyone for testing it and for your kind comments. :D
>
> I have now updated the tool with the possibility to set the duration of
> the animations. This is quite good, as many of the animation effects are
> rather frantic, but with this new ability to slow them down they become
> more useful in my opinion.
>
> Also, combining two animation effects becomes more interesting now when
> you can balance their durations independently, making for more varied
> movements.
>
> And even better, I have also added… *drumroll* … more fish!
> Eh, in the examples sections that is. It really is worth another visit to
> the web deployment just to see the fish, I promise! And the crab (proving
> that the animations continue during the move command too… ;-)
>
> /Andreas
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Wed May  3 13:57:10 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2023 18:57:10 +0100
Subject: A spinner that keeps spinning
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycMoyxAUKvHkD23u=1PTB8oHmEpvzEMc5qjqE4mebvKXxw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <FD7F3D2F-8E5A-454E-84E4-E404851CE5B1@gmail.com>
 <CADCoycMoyxAUKvHkD23u=1PTB8oHmEpvzEMc5qjqE4mebvKXxw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <266773E9-D9EB-4D2F-A59C-983E560A916B@gmail.com>

Indeed! Nice work Andreas.

> On 3 May 2023, at 6:48 pm, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Until there are threads
> we have Andreas
> 
> On Wed, May 3, 2023 at 1:45 PM Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Thanks everyone for testing it and for your kind comments. :D
>> 
>> I have now updated the tool with the possibility to set the duration of
>> the animations. This is quite good, as many of the animation effects are
>> rather frantic, but with this new ability to slow them down they become
>> more useful in my opinion.
>> 
>> Also, combining two animation effects becomes more interesting now when
>> you can balance their durations independently, making for more varied
>> movements.
>> 
>> And even better, I have also added… *drumroll* … more fish!
>> Eh, in the examples sections that is. It really is worth another visit to
>> the web deployment just to see the fish, I promise! And the crab (proving
>> that the animations continue during the move command too… ;-)
>> 
>> /Andreas
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>   and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From jiml at netrin.com  Wed May  3 14:18:03 2023
From: jiml at netrin.com (Jim Lambert)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2023 11:18:03 -0700
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1683129602.355193.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.1.1683129602.355193.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <14856126-1A8E-4550-BEB4-A0CC869921A5@netrin.com>

> Problem for me ist to measure the time until the user hits a key after a question 
> appears on the screen on the card. 
> And I start this on "opencard", so the VISUAL effect, what the user really sees,
> MUST have been terminated, but obviously "opencard" does not respect this.

If the visual effect may be compromising your very critical timing perhaps you should eliminate the visual effect.
Just go card and start timing upon opencard.

Jim Lambert

From klaus at major-k.de  Wed May  3 14:59:03 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2023 20:59:03 +0200
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <14856126-1A8E-4550-BEB4-A0CC869921A5@netrin.com>
References: <mailman.1.1683129602.355193.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <14856126-1A8E-4550-BEB4-A0CC869921A5@netrin.com>
Message-ID: <FEA3986C-C892-494A-BB5D-0EF4E1992507@major-k.de>

Hi Jim,

> Am 03.05.2023 um 20:18 schrieb Jim Lambert via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
>> Problem for me ist to measure the time until the user hits a key after a question 
>> appears on the screen on the card. 
>> And I start this on "opencard", so the VISUAL effect, what the user really sees,
>> MUST have been terminated, but obviously "opencard" does not respect this.
> If the visual effect may be compromising your very critical timing perhaps you should eliminate the visual effect.
> Just go card and start timing upon opencard.

you may have missed this in my last posting:
...
As a workaround I'll leave the visual effect out, temporarily.
...
:-)

> Jim Lambert

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From craig at starfirelighting.com  Wed May  3 15:07:52 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2023 15:07:52 -0400
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <FEA3986C-C892-494A-BB5D-0EF4E1992507@major-k.de>
References: <mailman.1.1683129602.355193.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <14856126-1A8E-4550-BEB4-A0CC869921A5@netrin.com>
 <FEA3986C-C892-494A-BB5D-0EF4E1992507@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <9020253E-7276-434E-9B6F-E823C9C919EC@starfirelighting.com>

Klaus.

I never use visual effects, though I played with them a lot in about 1988. They are “blocking” in some sense, so I think you are beat served by losing them entirely in your planning.

Craig

> On May 3, 2023, at 2:59 PM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Jim,
> 
>> Am 03.05.2023 um 20:18 schrieb Jim Lambert via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>>> Problem for me ist to measure the time until the user hits a key after a question 
>>> appears on the screen on the card. 
>>> And I start this on "opencard", so the VISUAL effect, what the user really sees,
>>> MUST have been terminated, but obviously "opencard" does not respect this.
>> If the visual effect may be compromising your very critical timing perhaps you should eliminate the visual effect.
>> Just go card and start timing upon opencard.
> 
> you may have missed this in my last posting:
> ...
> As a workaround I'll leave the visual effect out, temporarily.
> ...
> :-)
> 
>> Jim Lambert
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From paul at researchware.com  Wed May  3 16:24:45 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2023 16:24:45 -0400
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <14856126-1A8E-4550-BEB4-A0CC869921A5@netrin.com>
References: <mailman.1.1683129602.355193.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <14856126-1A8E-4550-BEB4-A0CC869921A5@netrin.com>
Message-ID: <8501dae5-ddbd-db4f-f38a-07b1b184ffb8@researchware.com>

If I have followed this thread:
1) Klaus executes a go to <card> with a visual effect using an effect 
rate of X millisecs
2) Klaus need to start a time on how long the user of the app has to 
answer a question once the card is displayed

I believe the order is:
1) preOpencard handler (if one) is executed
2) card is rendered in the window using the visual effect but the 
openCard handler (if one) is executed starting effectively at the same 
time as the visual effect based rendering of the card in the window 
takes place.

So starting the timer at the time "openCard" starts + the length of the 
effectRate of the visual effect used in the GO would represent when the 
user can expect to see the whole card.

So if the user has 5 seconds to answer the question and the effectRate 
was set to 500 millisecs then the start time of openCard + 500ms is when 
to start the counter for a  second reply.

Disclaimers: Depending upon the specific effect chosen and the placement 
of the question on the card, the user may be able to read the question a 
few millisec before the effect is done or even many millisec before the 
effect is done.

I don't think there is any way to have absolutely precise timing.





From klaus at major-k.de  Wed May  3 16:48:46 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2023 22:48:46 +0200
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <8501dae5-ddbd-db4f-f38a-07b1b184ffb8@researchware.com>
References: <mailman.1.1683129602.355193.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <14856126-1A8E-4550-BEB4-A0CC869921A5@netrin.com>
 <8501dae5-ddbd-db4f-f38a-07b1b184ffb8@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <CE480A4F-ADAB-416B-A55C-9E21069B449E@major-k.de>

Hi Pauil,

> Am 03.05.2023 um 22:24 schrieb Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> If I have followed this thread:
> 1) Klaus executes a go to <card> with a visual effect using an effect rate of X millisecs
> 2) Klaus need to start a time on how long the user of the app has to answer a question once the card is displayed
> I believe the order is:
> 1) preOpencard handler (if one) is executed
> 2) card is rendered in the window using the visual effect but the openCard handler (if one) is executed starting effectively at the same time as the visual effect based rendering of the card in the window takes place.
> So starting the timer at the time "openCard" starts + the length of the effectRate of the visual effect used in the GO would represent when the user can expect to see the whole card.
> So if the user has 5 seconds to answer the question and the effectRate was set to 500 millisecs then the start time of openCard + 500ms is when to start the counter for a  second reply.
> Disclaimers: Depending upon the specific effect chosen and the placement of the question on the card, the user may be able to read the question a few millisec before the effect is done or even many millisec before the effect is done.

thank you for your explanation, makes a lot of sense!

> I don't think there is any way to have absolutely precise timing.

Yep, I leave this oit and go directly to the card now.


Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From jiml at netrin.com  Thu May  4 13:35:36 2023
From: jiml at netrin.com (Jim Lambert)
Date: Thu, 4 May 2023 10:35:36 -0700
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1683216001.299272.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.1.1683216001.299272.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <00304983-DAA3-44F2-A94D-6C2E09958632@netrin.com>

> 
> you may have missed this in my last posting:

Klaus,

Indeed I did.

JimL

P.S. Another possibility you could also fake a transition. Then start your timer in the openCard handler of your destination card. 

In starting card:

on fakeTransition
	lock screen
	import snapshot from rectangle (the rect of next card) of next card
	put it into tempImage
	set the blendlevel of tempImage to 100
	unlock screen

	repeat with x = 100 down to 0 step -10
		set the blendlevel of tempImage to x
		wait 10 ticks with messages
	end repeat

	lock screen
	delete tempImage
	go next
end fakeTransition

In destination card:

on openCard
	startTimer
end openCard

From klaus at major-k.de  Thu May  4 17:38:48 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 4 May 2023 23:38:48 +0200
Subject: opencard and visual effect
In-Reply-To: <00304983-DAA3-44F2-A94D-6C2E09958632@netrin.com>
References: <mailman.1.1683216001.299272.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <00304983-DAA3-44F2-A94D-6C2E09958632@netrin.com>
Message-ID: <96CC6867-93E7-437C-9414-D3788D4C7C6D@major-k.de>

Hi Jim,

> Am 04.05.2023 um 19:35 schrieb Jim Lambert via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> you may have missed this in my last posting:
> 
> Klaus,
> 
> Indeed I did.
> 
> JimL
> 
> P.S. Another possibility you could also fake a transition. Then start your timer in the openCard handler of your destination card. 
> 
> In starting card:
> on fakeTransition
> 	lock screen
> 	import snapshot from rectangle (the rect of next card) of next card
> 	put it into tempImage
> 	set the blendlevel of tempImage to 100
> 	unlock screen
> 	repeat with x = 100 down to 0 step -10
> 		set the blendlevel of tempImage to x
> 		wait 10 ticks with messages
> 	end repeat
> 	lock screen
> 	delete tempImage
> 	go next
> end fakeTransition
> 
> In destination card:
> on openCard
> 	startTimer
> end openCard

thanks, but now I will navigate to the "timer" card without visual effect (real or fake).
My customer said that is OK. :-)


Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat May  6 17:05:33 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 6 May 2023 16:05:33 -0500
Subject: Default cursor
Message-ID: <02c16f42-7941-9dbb-18b0-301baac8dcd8@hyperactivesw.com>

I'm working on a stack that needs a default cursor. Sometimes it sets the cursor to none, but 
after that I can't get it back. Could someone verify?

Do this in the message box:

    set the defaultCursor to hand <cr>
    set the cursor to none; wait 1 second; set the cursor to hand

It doesn't come back. I also tried this:

    set the cursor to none; wait 1 second; set the cursor to the defaultcursor

Anyone have a workaround? (To get the regular cursor back after testing, "set the defaultcursor 
to empty".)

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From scott at elementarysoftware.com  Sat May  6 17:23:48 2023
From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (scott at elementarysoftware.com)
Date: Sat, 6 May 2023 14:23:48 -0700
Subject: Default cursor
In-Reply-To: <02c16f42-7941-9dbb-18b0-301baac8dcd8@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <02c16f42-7941-9dbb-18b0-301baac8dcd8@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <F147DAA1-D552-4AC8-8F81-7635BF745F46@elementarysoftware.com>

I’m getting the same thing. Putting the “none” cursor over the tool pallet gets the tools to hilite… but no cursor. Moving the “none” cursor to the message box (I started with it over an empty stack window) causes the “hand" cursor to establish without any additional scripting.

LC 9.6.9 stable  MBP M2Pro Ventura13.3.1(a)


> On May 6, 2023, at 2:05 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I'm working on a stack that needs a default cursor. Sometimes it sets the cursor to none, but after that I can't get it back. Could someone verify?
> 
> Do this in the message box:
> 
>   set the defaultCursor to hand <cr>
>   set the cursor to none; wait 1 second; set the cursor to hand
> 
> It doesn't come back. I also tried this:
> 
>   set the cursor to none; wait 1 second; set the cursor to the defaultcursor
> 
> Anyone have a workaround? (To get the regular cursor back after testing, "set the defaultcursor to empty".)
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sat May  6 17:39:38 2023
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2023 00:39:38 +0300
Subject: Default cursor
In-Reply-To: <02c16f42-7941-9dbb-18b0-301baac8dcd8@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <02c16f42-7941-9dbb-18b0-301baac8dcd8@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <b6afc453-12f7-9354-7571-d08956a06e91@gmail.com>

Sorry, Jacque: taking this across to the forums as want pictures and 
whatnot.

Love, Richmond.

On 7.05.23 0:05, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
> I'm working on a stack that needs a default cursor. Sometimes it sets 
> the cursor to none, but after that I can't get it back. Could someone 
> verify?
>
> Do this in the message box:
>
>    set the defaultCursor to hand <cr>
>    set the cursor to none; wait 1 second; set the cursor to hand
>
> It doesn't come back. I also tried this:
>
>    set the cursor to none; wait 1 second; set the cursor to the 
> defaultcursor
>
> Anyone have a workaround? (To get the regular cursor back after 
> testing, "set the defaultcursor to empty".)
>


From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sat May  6 17:51:55 2023
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2023 00:51:55 +0300
Subject: Default cursor
In-Reply-To: <02c16f42-7941-9dbb-18b0-301baac8dcd8@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <02c16f42-7941-9dbb-18b0-301baac8dcd8@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <e8ed605c-0106-8d94-6563-7a8807f14422@gmail.com>

AND, there (on the forums) I have found a way to get things to do what 
you want.

On 7.05.23 0:05, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
> I'm working on a stack that needs a default cursor. Sometimes it sets 
> the cursor to none, but after that I can't get it back. Could someone 
> verify?
>
> Do this in the message box:
>
>    set the defaultCursor to hand <cr>
>    set the cursor to none; wait 1 second; set the cursor to hand
>
> It doesn't come back. I also tried this:
>
>    set the cursor to none; wait 1 second; set the cursor to the 
> defaultcursor
>
> Anyone have a workaround? (To get the regular cursor back after 
> testing, "set the defaultcursor to empty".) 


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat May  6 19:08:26 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 6 May 2023 18:08:26 -0500
Subject: Default cursor
In-Reply-To: <e8ed605c-0106-8d94-6563-7a8807f14422@gmail.com>
References: <02c16f42-7941-9dbb-18b0-301baac8dcd8@hyperactivesw.com>
 <e8ed605c-0106-8d94-6563-7a8807f14422@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5dc3d75c-877d-6c4f-75bf-7c63b64fed25@hyperactivesw.com>

On 5/6/23 4:51 PM, Richmond via use-livecode wrote:
> AND, there (on the forums) I have found a way to get things to do what you want.

Please reply here, I have chosen my preferred venue. Images and downloads are unnecessary.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat May  6 19:15:47 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 6 May 2023 18:15:47 -0500
Subject: Default cursor
In-Reply-To: <F147DAA1-D552-4AC8-8F81-7635BF745F46@elementarysoftware.com>
References: <02c16f42-7941-9dbb-18b0-301baac8dcd8@hyperactivesw.com>
 <F147DAA1-D552-4AC8-8F81-7635BF745F46@elementarysoftware.com>
Message-ID: <2a4a830b-9af4-53aa-f72d-ea2997d57df4@hyperactivesw.com>

On 5/6/23 4:23 PM, scott--- via use-livecode wrote:
> I’m getting the same thing. Putting the “none” cursor over the tool pallet gets the tools to hilite… but no cursor. Moving the “none” cursor to the message box (I started with it over an empty stack window) causes the “hand" cursor to establish without any additional scripting.
> 
> LC 9.6.9 stable  MBP M2Pro Ventura13.3.1(a)

Thanks. I've found if you swipe the mouse over the script editor, or the dock, or another 
window it comes back. Basically, sweep the mouse erratically all over the screen until it hits 
something it recognizes. But I can't expect users to do that.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From scott at elementarysoftware.com  Sat May  6 21:21:31 2023
From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (scott at elementarysoftware.com)
Date: Sat, 6 May 2023 18:21:31 -0700
Subject: Default cursor
In-Reply-To: <2a4a830b-9af4-53aa-f72d-ea2997d57df4@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <02c16f42-7941-9dbb-18b0-301baac8dcd8@hyperactivesw.com>
 <F147DAA1-D552-4AC8-8F81-7635BF745F46@elementarysoftware.com>
 <2a4a830b-9af4-53aa-f72d-ea2997d57df4@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <36D389AB-CCDA-4914-83C9-0296B5560917@elementarysoftware.com>

Yeah, an interesting clue but not much of a workaround. Does this happen in a standalone or is it an IDE only issue…? (30 seconds later) Ick! Standalone, too and there seems to be even fewer things to interact with to get the cursor back. Clicking the menuBar works.
--
Scott Morrow

Elementary Software
(Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
web       https://elementarysoftware.com/
email     scott at elementarysoftware.com
booth    1-360-734-4701
------------------------------------------------------



> On May 6, 2023, at 4:15 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> On 5/6/23 4:23 PM, scott--- via use-livecode wrote:
>> I’m getting the same thing. Putting the “none” cursor over the tool pallet gets the tools to hilite… but no cursor. Moving the “none” cursor to the message box (I started with it over an empty stack window) causes the “hand" cursor to establish without any additional scripting.
>> LC 9.6.9 stable  MBP M2Pro Ventura13.3.1(a)
> 
> Thanks. I've found if you swipe the mouse over the script editor, or the dock, or another window it comes back. Basically, sweep the mouse erratically all over the screen until it hits something it recognizes. But I can't expect users to do that.
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sun May  7 03:58:43 2023
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2023 10:58:43 +0300
Subject: Default cursor
In-Reply-To: <5dc3d75c-877d-6c4f-75bf-7c63b64fed25@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <02c16f42-7941-9dbb-18b0-301baac8dcd8@hyperactivesw.com>
 <e8ed605c-0106-8d94-6563-7a8807f14422@gmail.com>
 <5dc3d75c-877d-6c4f-75bf-7c63b64fed25@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <58a3ca4e-e0af-4c5d-c482-9807efc29437@gmail.com>

Is that a fact?

Surely when someone offers help it seems churlish to set conditions.

On 7.05.23 2:08, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
> On 5/6/23 4:51 PM, Richmond via use-livecode wrote:
>> AND, there (on the forums) I have found a way to get things to do 
>> what you want.
>
> Please reply here, I have chosen my preferred venue. Images and 
> downloads are unnecessary.
>


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun May  7 12:30:32 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 07 May 2023 11:30:32 -0500
Subject: Default cursor
In-Reply-To: <58a3ca4e-e0af-4c5d-c482-9807efc29437@gmail.com>
References: <02c16f42-7941-9dbb-18b0-301baac8dcd8@hyperactivesw.com>
 <e8ed605c-0106-8d94-6563-7a8807f14422@gmail.com>
 <5dc3d75c-877d-6c4f-75bf-7c63b64fed25@hyperactivesw.com>
 <58a3ca4e-e0af-4c5d-c482-9807efc29437@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <187f70cec40.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

Apologies, I was in fact in a churlish mood. You should have seen what I 
wrote before I edited it.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 7, 2023 3:01:05 AM Richmond via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Is that a fact?
>
> Surely when someone offers help it seems churlish to set conditions.
>
> On 7.05.23 2:08, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
>> On 5/6/23 4:51 PM, Richmond via use-livecode wrote:
>>> AND, there (on the forums) I have found a way to get things to do
>>> what you want.
>>
>> Please reply here, I have chosen my preferred venue. Images and
>> downloads are unnecessary.
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun May  7 13:32:27 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 07 May 2023 12:32:27 -0500
Subject: Default cursor
In-Reply-To: <36D389AB-CCDA-4914-83C9-0296B5560917@elementarysoftware.com>
References: <02c16f42-7941-9dbb-18b0-301baac8dcd8@hyperactivesw.com>
 <F147DAA1-D552-4AC8-8F81-7635BF745F46@elementarysoftware.com>
 <2a4a830b-9af4-53aa-f72d-ea2997d57df4@hyperactivesw.com>
 <36D389AB-CCDA-4914-83C9-0296B5560917@elementarysoftware.com>
Message-ID: <187f7459bf8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

I suppose I could create a custom cursor set and replace the arrow with the 
custom cursor. LC does recover from "none" if a default cursor isn't set. 
I've never done a custom cursor set though so if anyone else has, I'd 
appreciate any tips.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 6, 2023 8:23:57 PM scott--- via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Yeah, an interesting clue but not much of a workaround. Does this happen in 
> a standalone or is it an IDE only issue? (30 seconds later) Ick! 
> Standalone, too and there seems to be even fewer things to interact with to 
> get the cursor back. Clicking the menuBar works.
> --
> Scott Morrow
>
> Elementary Software
> (Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
> web       https://elementarysoftware.com/
> email     scott at elementarysoftware.com
> booth    1-360-734-4701
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>> On May 6, 2023, at 4:15 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 5/6/23 4:23 PM, scott--- via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Im getting the same thing. Putting the none cursor over the tool pallet 
>>> gets the tools to hilite but no cursor. Moving the none cursor to the 
>>> message box (I started with it over an empty stack window) causes the 
>>> hand" cursor to establish without any additional scripting.
>>> LC 9.6.9 stable  MBP M2Pro Ventura13.3.1(a)
>>
>> Thanks. I've found if you swipe the mouse over the script editor, or the 
>> dock, or another window it comes back. Basically, sweep the mouse 
>> erratically all over the screen until it hits something it recognizes. But 
>> I can't expect users to do that.
>>
>> --
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Sun May  7 14:01:15 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2023 20:01:15 +0200
Subject: Default cursor
In-Reply-To: <187f7459bf8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <02c16f42-7941-9dbb-18b0-301baac8dcd8@hyperactivesw.com>
 <F147DAA1-D552-4AC8-8F81-7635BF745F46@elementarysoftware.com>
 <2a4a830b-9af4-53aa-f72d-ea2997d57df4@hyperactivesw.com>
 <36D389AB-CCDA-4914-83C9-0296B5560917@elementarysoftware.com>
 <187f7459bf8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <6AFADE0A-79B1-4D81-A544-89C032C84AF2@m-r-d.de>

I just did a quick test.
I downloaded a svg from Font Awesome website and imported it using "Import as Control -> image file " from file menu.
After that i could access that image and set the cursor to it.
But you have to resize the image to your preferred size either after importing or at least before using it as a cursor.

HTH

Matthias

> Am 07.05.2023 um 19:32 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> I suppose I could create a custom cursor set and replace the arrow with the custom cursor. LC does recover from "none" if a default cursor isn't set. I've never done a custom cursor set though so if anyone else has, I'd appreciate any tips.
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On May 6, 2023 8:23:57 PM scott--- via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Yeah, an interesting clue but not much of a workaround. Does this happen in a standalone or is it an IDE only issue…? (30 seconds later) Ick! Standalone, too and there seems to be even fewer things to interact with to get the cursor back. Clicking the menuBar works.
>> --
>> Scott Morrow
>> 
>> Elementary Software
>> (Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
>> web       https://elementarysoftware.com/
>> email     scott at elementarysoftware.com
>> booth    1-360-734-4701
>> ------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On May 6, 2023, at 4:15 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> On 5/6/23 4:23 PM, scott--- via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> I’m getting the same thing. Putting the “none” cursor over the tool pallet gets the tools to hilite… but no cursor. Moving the “none” cursor to the message box (I started with it over an empty stack window) causes the “hand" cursor to establish without any additional scripting.
>>>> LC 9.6.9 stable  MBP M2Pro Ventura13.3.1(a)
>>> 
>>> Thanks. I've found if you swipe the mouse over the script editor, or the dock, or another window it comes back. Basically, sweep the mouse erratically all over the screen until it hits something it recognizes. But I can't expect users to do that.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun May  7 15:16:19 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 07 May 2023 14:16:19 -0500
Subject: Default cursor
In-Reply-To: <6AFADE0A-79B1-4D81-A544-89C032C84AF2@m-r-d.de>
References: <02c16f42-7941-9dbb-18b0-301baac8dcd8@hyperactivesw.com>
 <F147DAA1-D552-4AC8-8F81-7635BF745F46@elementarysoftware.com>
 <2a4a830b-9af4-53aa-f72d-ea2997d57df4@hyperactivesw.com>
 <36D389AB-CCDA-4914-83C9-0296B5560917@elementarysoftware.com>
 <187f7459bf8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <6AFADE0A-79B1-4D81-A544-89C032C84AF2@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <187f7a4b3b8.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

I have an imported image to use as a custom cursor and it works. But I'm 
not sure how to create a custom cursor set. Maybe I can just replace the 
arrow in the built-in set. Or maybe a set is just a stack? That's what the 
revCursors are.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 7, 2023 1:03:20 PM matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I just did a quick test.
> I downloaded a svg from Font Awesome website and imported it using "Import 
> as Control -> image file " from file menu.
> After that i could access that image and set the cursor to it.
> But you have to resize the image to your preferred size either after 
> importing or at least before using it as a cursor.
>
> HTH
>
> Matthias
>
>> Am 07.05.2023 um 19:32 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>
>> I suppose I could create a custom cursor set and replace the arrow with the 
>> custom cursor. LC does recover from "none" if a default cursor isn't set. 
>> I've never done a custom cursor set though so if anyone else has, I'd 
>> appreciate any tips.
>> --
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>> On May 6, 2023 8:23:57 PM scott--- via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah, an interesting clue but not much of a workaround. Does this happen in 
>>> a standalone or is it an IDE only issue? (30 seconds later) Ick! 
>>> Standalone, too and there seems to be even fewer things to interact with to 
>>> get the cursor back. Clicking the menuBar works.
>>> --
>>> Scott Morrow
>>>
>>> Elementary Software
>>> (Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
>>> web       https://elementarysoftware.com/
>>> email     scott at elementarysoftware.com
>>> booth    1-360-734-4701
>>> ------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On May 6, 2023, at 4:15 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 5/6/23 4:23 PM, scott--- via use-livecode wrote:
>>>>> Im getting the same thing. Putting the none cursor over the tool pallet 
>>>>> gets the tools to hilite but no cursor. Moving the none cursor to the 
>>>>> message box (I started with it over an empty stack window) causes the 
>>>>> hand" cursor to establish without any additional scripting.
>>>>> LC 9.6.9 stable  MBP M2Pro Ventura13.3.1(a)
>>>>
>>>> Thanks. I've found if you swipe the mouse over the script editor, or the 
>>>> dock, or another window it comes back. Basically, sweep the mouse 
>>>> erratically all over the screen until it hits something it recognizes. But 
>>>> I can't expect users to do that.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>>>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun May  7 15:32:06 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 07 May 2023 14:32:06 -0500
Subject: Default cursor
In-Reply-To: <187f7a4b3b8.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <02c16f42-7941-9dbb-18b0-301baac8dcd8@hyperactivesw.com>
 <F147DAA1-D552-4AC8-8F81-7635BF745F46@elementarysoftware.com>
 <2a4a830b-9af4-53aa-f72d-ea2997d57df4@hyperactivesw.com>
 <36D389AB-CCDA-4914-83C9-0296B5560917@elementarysoftware.com>
 <187f7459bf8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <6AFADE0A-79B1-4D81-A544-89C032C84AF2@m-r-d.de>
 <187f7a4b3b8.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <187f7b326f0.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

So, reading the dictionary entry for "reset cursors" it looks like you 
can't create your own set, you can only change the built-in set. The 
problem with that is that I will not have an arrow any more, no matter what 
I'm working on. I'll always get the custom cursor, even though I only want 
it to appear in one project. It sounds like there is no other option though.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 7, 2023 2:18:32 PM "J. Landman Gay via use-livecode" 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I have an imported image to use as a custom cursor and it works. But I'm
> not sure how to create a custom cursor set. Maybe I can just replace the
> arrow in the built-in set. Or maybe a set is just a stack? That's what the
> revCursors are.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On May 7, 2023 1:03:20 PM matthias rebbe via use-livecode
> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> I just did a quick test.
>> I downloaded a svg from Font Awesome website and imported it using "Import
>> as Control -> image file " from file menu.
>> After that i could access that image and set the cursor to it.
>> But you have to resize the image to your preferred size either after
>> importing or at least before using it as a cursor.
>>
>> HTH
>>
>> Matthias
>>
>>> Am 07.05.2023 um 19:32 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>
>>> I suppose I could create a custom cursor set and replace the arrow with the
>>> custom cursor. LC does recover from "none" if a default cursor isn't set.
>>> I've never done a custom cursor set though so if anyone else has, I'd
>>> appreciate any tips.
>>> --
>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>> On May 6, 2023 8:23:57 PM scott--- via use-livecode
>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yeah, an interesting clue but not much of a workaround. Does this happen in
>>>> a standalone or is it an IDE only issue? (30 seconds later) Ick!
>>>> Standalone, too and there seems to be even fewer things to interact with to
>>>> get the cursor back. Clicking the menuBar works.
>>>> --
>>>> Scott Morrow
>>>>
>>>> Elementary Software
>>>> (Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
>>>> web       https://elementarysoftware.com/
>>>> email     scott at elementarysoftware.com
>>>> booth    1-360-734-4701
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On May 6, 2023, at 4:15 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
>>>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On 5/6/23 4:23 PM, scott--- via use-livecode wrote:
>>>>>> Im getting the same thing. Putting the none cursor over the tool pallet
>>>>>> gets the tools to hilite but no cursor. Moving the none cursor to the
>>>>>> message box (I started with it over an empty stack window) causes the
>>>>>> hand" cursor to establish without any additional scripting.
>>>>>> LC 9.6.9 stable  MBP M2Pro Ventura13.3.1(a)
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks. I've found if you swipe the mouse over the script editor, or the
>>>>> dock, or another window it comes back. Basically, sweep the mouse
>>>>> erratically all over the screen until it hits something it recognizes. But
>>>>> I can't expect users to do that.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>>>>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun May  7 16:03:33 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2023 15:03:33 -0500
Subject: Default cursor
In-Reply-To: <187f7b326f0.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <02c16f42-7941-9dbb-18b0-301baac8dcd8@hyperactivesw.com>
 <F147DAA1-D552-4AC8-8F81-7635BF745F46@elementarysoftware.com>
 <2a4a830b-9af4-53aa-f72d-ea2997d57df4@hyperactivesw.com>
 <36D389AB-CCDA-4914-83C9-0296B5560917@elementarysoftware.com>
 <187f7459bf8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <6AFADE0A-79B1-4D81-A544-89C032C84AF2@m-r-d.de>
 <187f7a4b3b8.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <187f7b326f0.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <2ebe5957-0ee1-3b4b-707e-00a63bf29048@hyperactivesw.com>

On 5/7/23 2:32 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
> So, reading the dictionary entry for "reset cursors" it looks like you can't create your own 
> set, you can only change the built-in set.

I changed the arrow cursor in the revMacCursors stack, saved, and relaunched LC. It still shows 
the arrow, which I assume is the system arrow. So, no go.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From jerry at jhjensen.com  Sun May  7 17:39:15 2023
From: jerry at jhjensen.com (Jerry Jensen)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2023 14:39:15 -0700
Subject: Hunting Default Preferences
Message-ID: <A683DE77-E51A-4F9B-AC7C-EA2B658B698A@jhjensen.com>

Hi folks,

I am returning to LiveCode after a spell of other projects, including debugging others’ LC code.

I find myself with a predicament - on launch of LC (no stack, just the LC app) I get a backdrop of off-white when I need none.
I have no idea how this got changed (never underestimate fatfingers).
There is probably a preference file somewhere that will let me change it back to the way it was (none) but I can’t seem to find it. 
I have looked everywhere that seems reasonable, but that is clearly not enough.

Its easy enough to put:
set the backdrop to none
in each mainstack opencard handler, but that is annoying at best.

Where should I look?

Regards,
Jerry Jensen
M1 MacBook Pro, OS 13.3.1 LC 9.6.9

From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Sun May  7 17:58:42 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2023 23:58:42 +0200
Subject: Hunting Default Preferences
In-Reply-To: <A683DE77-E51A-4F9B-AC7C-EA2B658B698A@jhjensen.com>
References: <A683DE77-E51A-4F9B-AC7C-EA2B658B698A@jhjensen.com>
Message-ID: <95FD4DD3-C2DF-462E-9ACE-B1DBAC8F4B22@m-r-d.de>

Jerry,

did you already try to delete the LC preference file?

The function revEnvironmentUserPreferencesPath()
returns the path to the preferences file.



> Am 07.05.2023 um 23:39 schrieb Jerry Jensen via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi folks,
> 
> I am returning to LiveCode after a spell of other projects, including debugging others’ LC code.
> 
> I find myself with a predicament - on launch of LC (no stack, just the LC app) I get a backdrop of off-white when I need none.
> I have no idea how this got changed (never underestimate fatfingers).
> There is probably a preference file somewhere that will let me change it back to the way it was (none) but I can’t seem to find it. 
> I have looked everywhere that seems reasonable, but that is clearly not enough.
> 
> Its easy enough to put:
> set the backdrop to none
> in each mainstack opencard handler, but that is annoying at best.
> 
> Where should I look?
> 
> Regards,
> Jerry Jensen
> M1 MacBook Pro, OS 13.3.1 LC 9.6.9
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From iowahengst at mac.com  Sun May  7 18:03:46 2023
From: iowahengst at mac.com (Randy Hengst)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2023 17:03:46 -0500
Subject: Hunting Default Preferences
In-Reply-To: <95FD4DD3-C2DF-462E-9ACE-B1DBAC8F4B22@m-r-d.de>
References: <A683DE77-E51A-4F9B-AC7C-EA2B658B698A@jhjensen.com>
 <95FD4DD3-C2DF-462E-9ACE-B1DBAC8F4B22@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <46E32A27-A489-4FEF-B2F8-EFE72625635E@mac.com>

You should be able to go to the View menu and toggle off backdrop.

take care,
randy

> On May 7, 2023, at 4:58 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Jerry,
> 
> did you already try to delete the LC preference file?
> 
> The function revEnvironmentUserPreferencesPath()
> returns the path to the preferences file.
> 
> 
> 
>> Am 07.05.2023 um 23:39 schrieb Jerry Jensen via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Hi folks,
>> 
>> I am returning to LiveCode after a spell of other projects, including debugging others’ LC code.
>> 
>> I find myself with a predicament - on launch of LC (no stack, just the LC app) I get a backdrop of off-white when I need none.
>> I have no idea how this got changed (never underestimate fatfingers).
>> There is probably a preference file somewhere that will let me change it back to the way it was (none) but I can’t seem to find it. 
>> I have looked everywhere that seems reasonable, but that is clearly not enough.
>> 
>> Its easy enough to put:
>> set the backdrop to none
>> in each mainstack opencard handler, but that is annoying at best.
>> 
>> Where should I look?
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Jerry Jensen
>> M1 MacBook Pro, OS 13.3.1 LC 9.6.9
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From jerry at jhjensen.com  Sun May  7 18:20:30 2023
From: jerry at jhjensen.com (Jerry Jensen)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2023 15:20:30 -0700
Subject: Hunting Default Preferences
In-Reply-To: <46E32A27-A489-4FEF-B2F8-EFE72625635E@mac.com>
References: <A683DE77-E51A-4F9B-AC7C-EA2B658B698A@jhjensen.com>
 <95FD4DD3-C2DF-462E-9ACE-B1DBAC8F4B22@m-r-d.de>
 <46E32A27-A489-4FEF-B2F8-EFE72625635E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <7AFC507D-8478-4694-9620-DF0884DD9DE1@jhjensen.com>

Oh that is TOO easy. No wonder I couldn’t find it!
Onward!
Thanks,
Jerry

> On May 7, 2023, at 3:03 PM, Randy Hengst via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> You should be able to go to the View menu and toggle off backdrop.
> 
> take care,
> randy
> 
>> On May 7, 2023, at 4:58 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Jerry,
>> 
>> did you already try to delete the LC preference file?
>> 
>> The function revEnvironmentUserPreferencesPath()
>> returns the path to the preferences file.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> Am 07.05.2023 um 23:39 schrieb Jerry Jensen via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> Hi folks,
>>> 
>>> I am returning to LiveCode after a spell of other projects, including debugging others’ LC code.
>>> 
>>> I find myself with a predicament - on launch of LC (no stack, just the LC app) I get a backdrop of off-white when I need none.
>>> I have no idea how this got changed (never underestimate fatfingers).
>>> There is probably a preference file somewhere that will let me change it back to the way it was (none) but I can’t seem to find it. 
>>> I have looked everywhere that seems reasonable, but that is clearly not enough.
>>> 
>>> Its easy enough to put:
>>> set the backdrop to none
>>> in each mainstack opencard handler, but that is annoying at best.
>>> 
>>> Where should I look?
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Jerry Jensen
>>> M1 MacBook Pro, OS 13.3.1 LC 9.6.9
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From jerry at jhjensen.com  Sun May  7 18:23:05 2023
From: jerry at jhjensen.com (Jerry Jensen)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2023 15:23:05 -0700
Subject: Hunting Default Preferences
In-Reply-To: <95FD4DD3-C2DF-462E-9ACE-B1DBAC8F4B22@m-r-d.de>
References: <A683DE77-E51A-4F9B-AC7C-EA2B658B698A@jhjensen.com>
 <95FD4DD3-C2DF-462E-9ACE-B1DBAC8F4B22@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <3A416E8D-7892-4355-A385-6FB121F6EB83@jhjensen.com>

That’s what I was looking for - the location of the LC preference file.
Actually Randy Hengst wisely advised me that the View menu has a toggle for the backdrop. . .    DUH!
Thanks,
Jerry

> On May 7, 2023, at 2:58 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Jerry,
> 
> did you already try to delete the LC preference file?
> 
> The function revEnvironmentUserPreferencesPath()
> returns the path to the preferences file.
> 
> 
> 
>> Am 07.05.2023 um 23:39 schrieb Jerry Jensen via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Hi folks,
>> 
>> I am returning to LiveCode after a spell of other projects, including debugging others’ LC code.
>> 
>> I find myself with a predicament - on launch of LC (no stack, just the LC app) I get a backdrop of off-white when I need none.
>> I have no idea how this got changed (never underestimate fatfingers).
>> There is probably a preference file somewhere that will let me change it back to the way it was (none) but I can’t seem to find it. 
>> I have looked everywhere that seems reasonable, but that is clearly not enough.
>> 
>> Its easy enough to put:
>> set the backdrop to none
>> in each mainstack opencard handler, but that is annoying at best.
>> 
>> Where should I look?
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Jerry Jensen
>> M1 MacBook Pro, OS 13.3.1 LC 9.6.9
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From paul at researchware.com  Tue May  9 19:30:00 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Tue, 9 May 2023 19:30:00 -0400
Subject: Inclusions and JSON
Message-ID: <5c416166-33ab-5ca3-692a-a9278d8c67ac@researchware.com>

I have a stack that serves as a plugin for our app. The plugin stack 
makes some calls using jsonToArray

The external stack alone in the LC 9.6.9 IDE works perfectly. The 
external plugin stack opened in our app in LC 9.6.9 IDE works perfectly. 
The external plugin stack opening in the standalone of our app, 
generates the error:

Function: error in function handler: jsonToArray (Line 61, column 8)
put: error in expression:  (Line 61, column 8)

Line 61 is just:   put jsonToArray(it) into tResponseA

There are other controls that work in the IDE and fail with the lines 
that include the jsonToArray call in the standalone. I do manual 
inclusions in the Standalone settings since the plugins are external 
stacks loaded into the standalone by user command. Automatic inclusions 
won't find the not-yet-loaded external stacks to find the JSON library 
calls. I have included the JSON Library in the inclusions list in my 
app's standalone settings.

Is there any other library that must be included for me to use 
jsonToArray? I am not a json literate person. I am just using copied 
code. Also, is there any debugging to be sure the JSON library was 
actually included in the standalone (the check box in the Standalone 
setting is set!)

Thank you for any guidance on this issue.





From paul at researchware.com  Tue May  9 19:57:26 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Tue, 9 May 2023 19:57:26 -0400
Subject: Inclusions and JSON
In-Reply-To: <5c416166-33ab-5ca3-692a-a9278d8c67ac@researchware.com>
References: <5c416166-33ab-5ca3-692a-a9278d8c67ac@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <7f73ff84-3ba8-a657-7712-e6735d87a002@researchware.com>

NEVER MIND.

I just realized that JSONToArray is part of the mergeJSON library and 
not part of the JSON library! Dear Livecode: For the JSON ignorant among 
us, could we just have one JSON library - by whatever name!


On 5/9/2023 7:30 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
> I have a stack that serves as a plugin for our app. The plugin stack 
> makes some calls using jsonToArray
>
> The external stack alone in the LC 9.6.9 IDE works perfectly. The 
> external plugin stack opened in our app in LC 9.6.9 IDE works 
> perfectly. The external plugin stack opening in the standalone of our 
> app, generates the error:
>
> Function: error in function handler: jsonToArray (Line 61, column 8)
> put: error in expression:  (Line 61, column 8)
>
> Line 61 is just:   put jsonToArray(it) into tResponseA
>
> There are other controls that work in the IDE and fail with the lines 
> that include the jsonToArray call in the standalone. I do manual 
> inclusions in the Standalone settings since the plugins are external 
> stacks loaded into the standalone by user command. Automatic 
> inclusions won't find the not-yet-loaded external stacks to find the 
> JSON library calls. I have included the JSON Library in the inclusions 
> list in my app's standalone settings.
>
> Is there any other library that must be included for me to use 
> jsonToArray? I am not a json literate person. I am just using copied 
> code. Also, is there any debugging to be sure the JSON library was 
> actually included in the standalone (the check box in the Standalone 
> setting is set!)
>
> Thank you for any guidance on this issue.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From heather at livecode.com  Wed May 10 07:37:05 2023
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2023 12:37:05 +0100
Subject: AMA today at 5
Message-ID: <767B4A31-9D84-41BA-9E99-857C33B16D83@livecode.com>

Hi folks,

Just in case anyone missed it, you have another opportunity to ask the team live questions this afternoon at 5pm (our time). Thats 12 noon in New York, or 9am in Los Angeles. We've made this an open session, you don't have to register in advance, and you can follow either in Zoom:

https://us02web.zoom.us/j/86437878174?pwd=NVdNaDYvc3ZCUFlvK3gwL0pOenhrUT09

or on Youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idEvGr31ElI <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idEvGr31ElI>

There were so many questions in the last session, we didn't get through them all. We're going to give it another shot!

Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com




From benr at cogapp.com  Wed May 10 09:56:06 2023
From: benr at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2023 14:56:06 +0100
Subject: Inclusions and JSON
In-Reply-To: <7f73ff84-3ba8-a657-7712-e6735d87a002@researchware.com>
References: <5c416166-33ab-5ca3-692a-a9278d8c67ac@researchware.com>
 <7f73ff84-3ba8-a657-7712-e6735d87a002@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <e97bede4-5666-d22a-d8ed-8ef9b442814c@cogapp.com>

Further to this: dear LiveCode, please make the Inclusions selector in the 
standalone settings window navigable - at least sortable by name, platform, 
selected; even-better-if can be filtered.

See also https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18199, which includes a 
comment in 2017 specifically referencing 'json' as a use-case for filtering.

And apparently Ali Lloyd did exactly this six years ago:
https://github.com/livecode/livecode-ide/pull/1809

... but nobody has ever reviewed the pull request.

:-(

Ben


On 10/05/2023 00:57, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
> NEVER MIND.
> 
> I just realized that JSONToArray is part of the mergeJSON library and not part 
> of the JSON library! Dear Livecode: For the JSON ignorant among us, could we 
> just have one JSON library - by whatever name!
> 
> 
> On 5/9/2023 7:30 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
>> I have a stack that serves as a plugin for our app. The plugin stack makes 
>> some calls using jsonToArray
>>
>> The external stack alone in the LC 9.6.9 IDE works perfectly. The external 
>> plugin stack opened in our app in LC 9.6.9 IDE works perfectly. The external 
>> plugin stack opening in the standalone of our app, generates the error:
>>
>> Function: error in function handler: jsonToArray (Line 61, column 8)
>> put: error in expression:  (Line 61, column 8)
>>
>> Line 61 is just:   put jsonToArray(it) into tResponseA
>>
>> There are other controls that work in the IDE and fail with the lines that 
>> include the jsonToArray call in the standalone. I do manual inclusions in 
>> the Standalone settings since the plugins are external stacks loaded into 
>> the standalone by user command. Automatic inclusions won't find the 
>> not-yet-loaded external stacks to find the JSON library calls. I have 
>> included the JSON Library in the inclusions list in my app's standalone 
>> settings.
>>
>> Is there any other library that must be included for me to use jsonToArray? 
>> I am not a json literate person. I am just using copied code. Also, is there 
>> any debugging to be sure the JSON library was actually included in the 
>> standalone (the check box in the Standalone setting is set!)
>>
>> Thank you for any guidance on this issue.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed May 10 11:18:49 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2023 10:18:49 -0500
Subject: Inclusions and JSON
In-Reply-To: <e97bede4-5666-d22a-d8ed-8ef9b442814c@cogapp.com>
References: <5c416166-33ab-5ca3-692a-a9278d8c67ac@researchware.com>
 <7f73ff84-3ba8-a657-7712-e6735d87a002@researchware.com>
 <e97bede4-5666-d22a-d8ed-8ef9b442814c@cogapp.com>
Message-ID: <188063e57a8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

Oh god yes. Please, please. I can never find anything in there.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 10, 2023 8:58:23 AM Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Further to this: dear LiveCode, please make the Inclusions selector in the
> standalone settings window navigable - at least sortable by name, platform,
> selected; even-better-if can be filtered.
>
> See also https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18199, which includes a
> comment in 2017 specifically referencing 'json' as a use-case for filtering.
>
> And apparently Ali Lloyd did exactly this six years ago:
> https://github.com/livecode/livecode-ide/pull/1809
>
> ... but nobody has ever reviewed the pull request.
>
> :-(
>
> Ben




From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Wed May 10 15:14:17 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2023 20:14:17 +0100
Subject: Inclusions and JSON
In-Reply-To: <e97bede4-5666-d22a-d8ed-8ef9b442814c@cogapp.com>
References: <5c416166-33ab-5ca3-692a-a9278d8c67ac@researchware.com>
 <7f73ff84-3ba8-a657-7712-e6735d87a002@researchware.com>
 <e97bede4-5666-d22a-d8ed-8ef9b442814c@cogapp.com>
Message-ID: <B06743DF-E5AD-41A0-9476-91D926DEB8CE@gmail.com>

I’d be happy to just have it sort by name. 

> On 10 May 2023, at 2:56 pm, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Further to this: dear LiveCode, please make the Inclusions selector in the standalone settings window navigable - at least sortable by name, platform, selected; even-better-if can be filtered.


From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Wed May 10 15:33:43 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2023 21:33:43 +0200
Subject: Inclusions and JSON
In-Reply-To: <B06743DF-E5AD-41A0-9476-91D926DEB8CE@gmail.com>
References: <5c416166-33ab-5ca3-692a-a9278d8c67ac@researchware.com>
 <7f73ff84-3ba8-a657-7712-e6735d87a002@researchware.com>
 <e97bede4-5666-d22a-d8ed-8ef9b442814c@cogapp.com>
 <B06743DF-E5AD-41A0-9476-91D926DEB8CE@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EE9FDAC4-C4D7-4CCB-A268-D3D9A5958C88@m-r-d.de>

Me too and, if not yet completely fixed, the supported platforms correctly shown.

> Am 10.05.2023 um 21:14 schrieb Mark Smith via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> I’d be happy to just have it sort by name. 
> 
>> On 10 May 2023, at 2:56 pm, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Further to this: dear LiveCode, please make the Inclusions selector in the standalone settings window navigable - at least sortable by name, platform, selected; even-better-if can be filtered.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From craig at starfirelighting.com  Wed May 10 16:51:10 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2023 16:51:10 -0400
Subject: Cannot make a standalone after upgrading to Mac Mini and Ventura
Message-ID: <17341127-436F-48B8-9403-50D39804E550@starfirelighting.com>

All.
Help
I got a new Mac Mini a month ago. Lovely. Working with LC on it. Lovely.

I tried to make a windows standalone from the same project I have for years. In the Applications Settings I cannot select the Windows pane. It is essentially disabled, and looks like it.

In fact, I cannot select any pane except the Mac one. The Mac standalone proceeds as usual, but there is nothing done on the Windows side.

I made a brand new stack. Same issue; only the Mac pane is accessible.

Before I put the splash stack and the mainStack on a thumb drive and reload them back on my old iMac to make an updated standalone, is it me or Ventura?

Craig


From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Wed May 10 16:58:39 2023
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2023 16:58:39 -0400
Subject: Cannot make a standalone after upgrading to Mac Mini and Ventura
In-Reply-To: <17341127-436F-48B8-9403-50D39804E550@starfirelighting.com>
References: <17341127-436F-48B8-9403-50D39804E550@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <009d01d98382$35884350$a098c9f0$@net>

I had this happen when I had more than one license. One old and a new with
"pro". I picked the one(default) without the "pro" features and had only a
couple of platforms. I relicensed selected "pro" and had all platforms.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net


-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
Of Craig Newman via use-livecode
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2023 4:51 PM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Craig Newman
Subject: Cannot make a standalone after upgrading to Mac Mini and Ventura

All.
Help
I got a new Mac Mini a month ago. Lovely. Working with LC on it. Lovely.

I tried to make a windows standalone from the same project I have for years.
In the Applications Settings I cannot select the Windows pane. It is
essentially disabled, and looks like it.

In fact, I cannot select any pane except the Mac one. The Mac standalone
proceeds as usual, but there is nothing done on the Windows side.

I made a brand new stack. Same issue; only the Mac pane is accessible.

Before I put the splash stack and the mainStack on a thumb drive and reload
them back on my old iMac to make an updated standalone, is it me or Ventura?

Craig

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From heather at livecode.com  Thu May 11 04:09:04 2023
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 09:09:04 +0100
Subject: Cannot make a standalone after upgrading to Mac Mini and Ventura
In-Reply-To: <17341127-436F-48B8-9403-50D39804E550@starfirelighting.com>
References: <17341127-436F-48B8-9403-50D39804E550@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <D9174D30-77A8-47DA-A6DA-6C12DC162FE5@livecode.com>

You probably need to switch licenses. This lesson may be helpful:

https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4072/l/1542014-i-have-a-valid-license-but-lc-says-it-is-expiring <https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4072/l/1542014-i-have-a-valid-license-but-lc-says-it-is-expiring>

If that doesn't solve it please email support :)

Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 10 May 2023, at 21:51, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> All.
> Help
> I got a new Mac Mini a month ago. Lovely. Working with LC on it. Lovely.
> 
> I tried to make a windows standalone from the same project I have for years. In the Applications Settings I cannot select the Windows pane. It is essentially disabled, and looks like it.
> 
> In fact, I cannot select any pane except the Mac one. The Mac standalone proceeds as usual, but there is nothing done on the Windows side.
> 
> I made a brand new stack. Same issue; only the Mac pane is accessible.
> 
> Before I put the splash stack and the mainStack on a thumb drive and reload them back on my old iMac to make an updated standalone, is it me or Ventura?
> 
> Craig
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From craig at starfirelighting.com  Thu May 11 09:11:36 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 09:11:36 -0400
Subject: Cannot make a standalone after upgrading to Mac Mini and Ventura
In-Reply-To: <D9174D30-77A8-47DA-A6DA-6C12DC162FE5@livecode.com>
References: <17341127-436F-48B8-9403-50D39804E550@starfirelighting.com>
 <D9174D30-77A8-47DA-A6DA-6C12DC162FE5@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <7EBC469C-1BD9-4722-B07F-0CFBB0E30659@starfirelighting.com>

Heather.

THANK YOU. That worked.

Not that I care much, but was it Ventura or the new machine itself that required re-licensing? 

Ralph.

Thanks to you as well.

Craig

> On May 11, 2023, at 4:09 AM, Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> You probably need to switch licenses. This lesson may be helpful:
> 
> https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4072/l/1542014-i-have-a-valid-license-but-lc-says-it-is-expiring <https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4072/l/1542014-i-have-a-valid-license-but-lc-says-it-is-expiring>
> 
> If that doesn't solve it please email support :)
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On 10 May 2023, at 21:51, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> All.
>> Help
>> I got a new Mac Mini a month ago. Lovely. Working with LC on it. Lovely.
>> 
>> I tried to make a windows standalone from the same project I have for years. In the Applications Settings I cannot select the Windows pane. It is essentially disabled, and looks like it.
>> 
>> In fact, I cannot select any pane except the Mac one. The Mac standalone proceeds as usual, but there is nothing done on the Windows side.
>> 
>> I made a brand new stack. Same issue; only the Mac pane is accessible.
>> 
>> Before I put the splash stack and the mainStack on a thumb drive and reload them back on my old iMac to make an updated standalone, is it me or Ventura?
>> 
>> Craig
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From craig at starfirelighting.com  Thu May 11 09:16:53 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 09:16:53 -0400
Subject: Cannot make a standalone after upgrading to Mac Mini and Ventura
In-Reply-To: <009d01d98382$35884350$a098c9f0$@net>
References: <17341127-436F-48B8-9403-50D39804E550@starfirelighting.com>
 <009d01d98382$35884350$a098c9f0$@net>
Message-ID: <3140B589-A245-468C-8AF3-0C1373F5C5D3@starfirelighting.com>

What a GREAT community this is here on the use-list.

Craig

> On May 10, 2023, at 4:58 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I had this happen when I had more than one license. One old and a new with
> "pro". I picked the one(default) without the "pro" features and had only a
> couple of platforms. I relicensed selected "pro" and had all platforms.
> 
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
> Of Craig Newman via use-livecode
> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2023 4:51 PM
> To: How to use LiveCode
> Cc: Craig Newman
> Subject: Cannot make a standalone after upgrading to Mac Mini and Ventura
> 
> All.
> Help
> I got a new Mac Mini a month ago. Lovely. Working with LC on it. Lovely.
> 
> I tried to make a windows standalone from the same project I have for years.
> In the Applications Settings I cannot select the Windows pane. It is
> essentially disabled, and looks like it.
> 
> In fact, I cannot select any pane except the Mac one. The Mac standalone
> proceeds as usual, but there is nothing done on the Windows side.
> 
> I made a brand new stack. Same issue; only the Mac pane is accessible.
> 
> Before I put the splash stack and the mainStack on a thumb drive and reload
> them back on my old iMac to make an updated standalone, is it me or Ventura?
> 
> Craig
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Thu May 11 09:36:41 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 15:36:41 +0200
Subject: generate an Array using value for naming the keys?
Message-ID: <BBA7FF7A-B21D-48A8-8DB9-F58CF9C35D04@m-r-d.de>

Hi,

once in a while i am struggling with value(). ;) 

I have the following problem.
I need to create an array which keys are something like this

wp_aa_old
wp_cd_old
wp_ek_old
wp_aa_new
wp_cd_new

and so on.

The middle part of the key names changes and there can be about 50 different "middle parts" and there are 10 main keys (after the middle part)
_content, _text _html and so on.

So without an idea i would have to create the code to fill all values for the array keys with the middle part aa and then the code  for the middle part cd and so on.

Is there a way to use value for this. So i could just add the middle part of the key name to a variable and use that then with value() to create and file the array?

I think i have done this before, but i might be wrong.

Regards,
Matthias



From mark at livecode.com  Thu May 11 10:36:39 2023
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 15:36:39 +0100
Subject: generate an Array using value for naming the keys?
In-Reply-To: <BBA7FF7A-B21D-48A8-8DB9-F58CF9C35D04@m-r-d.de>
References: <BBA7FF7A-B21D-48A8-8DB9-F58CF9C35D04@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <aeb21813a25aca18633aa51e48b3df81@livecode.com>

On 2023-05-11 14:36, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote:
> The middle part of the key names changes and there can be about 50 
> different "middle parts" and there are 10 main keys (after the middle 
> part)
> _content, _text _html and so on.
> 
> So without an idea i would have to create the code to fill all values 
> for the array keys with the middle part aa and then the code  for the 
> middle part cd and so on.
> 
> Is there a way to use value for this. So i could just add the middle 
> part of the key name to a variable and use that then with value() to 
> create and file the array?

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you are trying to do as you mention 
using value() for something which doesn't sound like it needs it...

Array keys can be arbitrary (string-valued) expressions - i.e. they 
don't have to be literal strings:

e.g. put tFoo["wp_" & tMiddlePart & "_" & tSuffix] into 
tMiddlePartSuffixValue

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things


From klaus at major-k.de  Thu May 11 10:45:38 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 16:45:38 +0200
Subject: Different default bg color of stacks Mac/Win
Message-ID: <C16BB07E-30C5-4162-9334-4FB2519B4EE4@major-k.de>

Hi friends,

this week I have been bitten again by the fact that the default bg color 
of a stack is different on a Mac an Windows!

If you don't set the bg color of a new stack on a Mac it will be WHITE.
If you then open that stack on Windows, the bg color is a light grey. :-/

See screenshot of a stack with two OPAQUE (and white) text fields created 
on Mac and opened on Windows. Surprise, surprise...

<https://www.dropbox.com/s/n58ahwlivvzygmy/windows_grey_bg.png?dl=0>

Is this a bug or feature? 
If a bug, should I create a report for that?


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Thu May 11 10:47:55 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 16:47:55 +0200
Subject: generate an Array using value for naming the keys?
In-Reply-To: <aeb21813a25aca18633aa51e48b3df81@livecode.com>
References: <BBA7FF7A-B21D-48A8-8DB9-F58CF9C35D04@m-r-d.de>
 <aeb21813a25aca18633aa51e48b3df81@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <EBFCFDD9-C42D-43B2-8484-80E3CE9D7A81@m-r-d.de>

Mark, thank you very much!

i didn't know or remember that the key name of an array can be created directly using strings and variables

Maybe i even did that in the past, but could not remember anymore. I really thought i have solved it that time with value()  :) 

Regards,
Matthias

> Am 11.05.2023 um 16:36 schrieb Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> On 2023-05-11 14:36, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote:
>> The middle part of the key names changes and there can be about 50 different "middle parts" and there are 10 main keys (after the middle part)
>> _content, _text _html and so on.
>> So without an idea i would have to create the code to fill all values for the array keys with the middle part aa and then the code  for the middle part cd and so on.
>> Is there a way to use value for this. So i could just add the middle part of the key name to a variable and use that then with value() to create and file the array?
> 
> Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you are trying to do as you mention using value() for something which doesn't sound like it needs it...
> 
> Array keys can be arbitrary (string-valued) expressions - i.e. they don't have to be literal strings:
> 
> e.g. put tFoo["wp_" & tMiddlePart & "_" & tSuffix] into tMiddlePartSuffixValue
> 
> Warmest Regards,
> 
> Mark.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Build Amazing Things
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From mark at livecode.com  Thu May 11 10:49:32 2023
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 15:49:32 +0100
Subject: Different default bg color of stacks Mac/Win
In-Reply-To: <C16BB07E-30C5-4162-9334-4FB2519B4EE4@major-k.de>
References: <C16BB07E-30C5-4162-9334-4FB2519B4EE4@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <ea93bccd8b97891830f55534fdfe5726@livecode.com>

On 2023-05-11 15:45, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
> See screenshot of a stack with two OPAQUE (and white) text fields 
> created
> on Mac and opened on Windows. Surprise, surprise...
> 
> <https://www.dropbox.com/s/n58ahwlivvzygmy/windows_grey_bg.png?dl=0>
> 
> Is this a bug or feature?
> If a bug, should I create a report for that?

Not a bug - the default is to use 'native' themes on desktop platforms, 
and that also
influences the background color of a stack.

If you don't want that - then you need to explicitly set the background 
color.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things


From mark at livecode.com  Thu May 11 10:51:09 2023
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 15:51:09 +0100
Subject: generate an Array using value for naming the keys?
In-Reply-To: <EBFCFDD9-C42D-43B2-8484-80E3CE9D7A81@m-r-d.de>
References: <BBA7FF7A-B21D-48A8-8DB9-F58CF9C35D04@m-r-d.de>
 <aeb21813a25aca18633aa51e48b3df81@livecode.com>
 <EBFCFDD9-C42D-43B2-8484-80E3CE9D7A81@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <3833a4d0940549f977565a21e1bb2f8c@livecode.com>

On 2023-05-11 15:47, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote:
> Mark, thank you very much!
> 
> i didn't know or remember that the key name of an array can be created 
> directly using strings and variables
> 
> Maybe i even did that in the past, but could not remember anymore. I 
> really thought i have solved it that time with value()  :)

No problem - of course, I used & in my example - but when I'm doing 
stuff like that I tend to use format:

put tFoo[format("wp_%s_%s", tMiddlePart, tSuffix)] into 
tMiddlePartSuffixValue

It does the same job, but I find it more readable (as the structure of 
the string can be seen immediately without having to wade through quotes 
and ampersands :)

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things


From klaus at major-k.de  Thu May 11 10:51:31 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 16:51:31 +0200
Subject: Different default bg color of stacks Mac/Win
In-Reply-To: <ea93bccd8b97891830f55534fdfe5726@livecode.com>
References: <C16BB07E-30C5-4162-9334-4FB2519B4EE4@major-k.de>
 <ea93bccd8b97891830f55534fdfe5726@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <066BDE97-1DD9-4C1D-9042-5EE8FAC5A8C4@major-k.de>

Hi Mark,

> Am 11.05.2023 um 16:49 schrieb Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> On 2023-05-11 15:45, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>> See screenshot of a stack with two OPAQUE (and white) text fields created
>> on Mac and opened on Windows. Surprise, surprise...
>> <https://www.dropbox.com/s/n58ahwlivvzygmy/windows_grey_bg.png?dl=0>
>> Is this a bug or feature?
>> If a bug, should I create a report for that?
> 
> Not a bug - the default is to use 'native' themes on desktop platforms, and that also
> influences the background color of a stack.

aha, thanks for the quick answer. Is this documented somewhere?

> If you don't want that - then you need to explicitly set the background color.

NOW I know and will never forget! :-)

> Warmest Regards,
> 
> Mark.

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From mark at livecode.com  Thu May 11 10:54:43 2023
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 15:54:43 +0100
Subject: Different default bg color of stacks Mac/Win
In-Reply-To: <066BDE97-1DD9-4C1D-9042-5EE8FAC5A8C4@major-k.de>
References: <C16BB07E-30C5-4162-9334-4FB2519B4EE4@major-k.de>
 <ea93bccd8b97891830f55534fdfe5726@livecode.com>
 <066BDE97-1DD9-4C1D-9042-5EE8FAC5A8C4@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <725a23283633f654545cc6085db83f38@livecode.com>

On 2023-05-11 15:51, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi Mark,
> 
>> Am 11.05.2023 um 16:49 schrieb Mark Waddingham via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> On 2023-05-11 15:45, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>>> See screenshot of a stack with two OPAQUE (and white) text fields 
>>> created
>>> on Mac and opened on Windows. Surprise, surprise...
>>> <https://www.dropbox.com/s/n58ahwlivvzygmy/windows_grey_bg.png?dl=0>
>>> Is this a bug or feature?
>>> If a bug, should I create a report for that?
>> 
>> Not a bug - the default is to use 'native' themes on desktop 
>> platforms, and that also
>> influences the background color of a stack.
> 
> aha, thanks for the quick answer. Is this documented somewhere?

Yes - in the dictionary entry for the backgroundColor property of 
objects:

```
Cross-platform note: On Mac OS, OS X, and Windows systems, if the 
backgroundColor of all objects in the object hierarchy is empty, the 
background color set by the system is used.
```

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things


From klaus at major-k.de  Thu May 11 10:55:53 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 16:55:53 +0200
Subject: Different default bg color of stacks Mac/Win
In-Reply-To: <725a23283633f654545cc6085db83f38@livecode.com>
References: <C16BB07E-30C5-4162-9334-4FB2519B4EE4@major-k.de>
 <ea93bccd8b97891830f55534fdfe5726@livecode.com>
 <066BDE97-1DD9-4C1D-9042-5EE8FAC5A8C4@major-k.de>
 <725a23283633f654545cc6085db83f38@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <162DFA5D-D6C4-41E6-A521-2F691CA3DE0F@major-k.de>

Hi Mark,

> Am 11.05.2023 um 16:54 schrieb Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> On 2023-05-11 15:51, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hi Mark,
>>> Am 11.05.2023 um 16:49 schrieb Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> On 2023-05-11 15:45, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> See screenshot of a stack with two OPAQUE (and white) text fields created
>>>> on Mac and opened on Windows. Surprise, surprise...
>>>> <https://www.dropbox.com/s/n58ahwlivvzygmy/windows_grey_bg.png?dl=0>
>>>> Is this a bug or feature?
>>>> If a bug, should I create a report for that?
>>> Not a bug - the default is to use 'native' themes on desktop platforms, and that also
>>> influences the background color of a stack.
>> aha, thanks for the quick answer. Is this documented somewhere?
> 
> Yes - in the dictionary entry for the backgroundColor property of objects:
> ```
> Cross-platform note: On Mac OS, OS X, and Windows systems, if the backgroundColor of all objects in the object hierarchy is empty, the background color set by the system is used.
> ```

Aha, thank you!

> Warmest Regards,
> 
> Mark.

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From jbv at souslelogo.com  Thu May 11 10:55:28 2023
From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 10:55:28 -0400
Subject: [semi OT] mySQL question
Message-ID: <5e4347eed32d6cda59d5f7aef973c763@souslelogo.com>

Hi list,

This is a question for mySQL experts, which I am not.

I have a table of individuals.
I have another table of companies.

Many individuals have worked in more than 1 company with
different jobs descriptions.

I need to build my DB so that, with single requests, I
can get a list of either :
- all individuals who worked in a specific company with
the job description of each one
- all companies in which a specific individual has worked,
along with the job description he had in each company.

The main problem is that the tables might become huge with
the time (several Gb), so searching the tables might take
forever if not carefully built.

I guess I will need to use a third table for the job descriptions
and a combination of fulltext indexes and foreign keys
might do the trick, but my limited skills don't allow me
to find the best solution...

Any help will be much appreciated.
Thank you in advance.

jbv


From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Thu May 11 10:56:20 2023
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 10:56:20 -0400
Subject: generate an Array using value for naming the keys?
In-Reply-To: <3833a4d0940549f977565a21e1bb2f8c@livecode.com>
References: <BBA7FF7A-B21D-48A8-8DB9-F58CF9C35D04@m-r-d.de>
 <aeb21813a25aca18633aa51e48b3df81@livecode.com>
 <EBFCFDD9-C42D-43B2-8484-80E3CE9D7A81@m-r-d.de>
 <3833a4d0940549f977565a21e1bb2f8c@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <002601d98418$c28c0ca0$47a425e0$@net>

Mark,
I will start doing this. I have a headache just thinking of the last time I
had some complex keys and trying to read the code with the afore mentioned
quotes and ampersands. Learn something new every day. 

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
Of Mark Waddingham via use-livecode
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2023 10:51 AM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Mark Waddingham
Subject: Re: generate an Array using value for naming the keys?

On 2023-05-11 15:47, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote:
> Mark, thank you very much!
> 
> i didn't know or remember that the key name of an array can be created 
> directly using strings and variables
> 
> Maybe i even did that in the past, but could not remember anymore. I 
> really thought i have solved it that time with value()  :)

No problem - of course, I used & in my example - but when I'm doing stuff
like that I tend to use format:

put tFoo[format("wp_%s_%s", tMiddlePart, tSuffix)] into
tMiddlePartSuffixValue

It does the same job, but I find it more readable (as the structure of the
string can be seen immediately without having to wade through quotes and
ampersands :)

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

--
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Thu May 11 11:27:28 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 17:27:28 +0200
Subject: generate an Array using value for naming the keys?
In-Reply-To: <3833a4d0940549f977565a21e1bb2f8c@livecode.com>
References: <BBA7FF7A-B21D-48A8-8DB9-F58CF9C35D04@m-r-d.de>
 <aeb21813a25aca18633aa51e48b3df81@livecode.com>
 <EBFCFDD9-C42D-43B2-8484-80E3CE9D7A81@m-r-d.de>
 <3833a4d0940549f977565a21e1bb2f8c@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <698ADD4C-B8C1-4C88-8136-F8D3498725AA@m-r-d.de>

Thanks for this also. I will keep that in mind, but for now i will use the & syntax.

Format() is also a function i often struggle with. ;)

> Am 11.05.2023 um 16:51 schrieb Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> On 2023-05-11 15:47, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote:
>> Mark, thank you very much!
>> i didn't know or remember that the key name of an array can be created directly using strings and variables
>> Maybe i even did that in the past, but could not remember anymore. I really thought i have solved it that time with value()  :)
> 
> No problem - of course, I used & in my example - but when I'm doing stuff like that I tend to use format:
> 
> put tFoo[format("wp_%s_%s", tMiddlePart, tSuffix)] into tMiddlePartSuffixValue
> 
> It does the same job, but I find it more readable (as the structure of the string can be seen immediately without having to wade through quotes and ampersands :)
> 
> Warmest Regards,
> 
> Mark.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Build Amazing Things
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From craig at starfirelighting.com  Thu May 11 12:30:56 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 12:30:56 -0400
Subject: Am I using the best mail client?
Message-ID: <278EF17B-F6B0-411B-990D-6166A1E74568@starfirelighting.com>

Since I got real help here, and not on the forum(hmph), I am wondering if the eMail client I am using is one reason I do not prefer this venue.

I am using the native Mac “Mail’ client. Are there much better ones?

Craig

From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Thu May 11 12:40:33 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 18:40:33 +0200
Subject: Am I using the best mail client?
In-Reply-To: <278EF17B-F6B0-411B-990D-6166A1E74568@starfirelighting.com>
References: <278EF17B-F6B0-411B-990D-6166A1E74568@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <4A9C1DC8-9655-48BE-8DA9-3563FDFCE3E4@m-r-d.de>

I am using also the "normal" Mac Client w/o any problem with the use list.

I am accessing my email account using Imap protocoll and i created an email alias for the uselist and a subfolder to which the emails automatically are copied. 
So no mess in my main inbox and also a nice  and proper email folder just with Livecode use list emails.

Regards,
Matthias

> Am 11.05.2023 um 18:30 schrieb Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Since I got real help here, and not on the forum(hmph), I am wondering if the eMail client I am using is one reason I do not prefer this venue.
> 
> I am using the native Mac “Mail’ client. Are there much better ones?
> 
> Craig
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From 1anmldr1 at gmail.com  Thu May 11 13:02:31 2023
From: 1anmldr1 at gmail.com (Linda Miller)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 11:02:31 -0600
Subject: Old license etc.
Message-ID: <2C5C6A29-A93A-4FF4-A4B4-B7F2C441B0D4@gmail.com>

I have been away from coding for years. I have a LiveCode Hosting Lifetime License that, I think, I bought during one of LC’s campaigns for HTML5 to be built. 

Whatever happened with HTML5 and LC?
How can I find the “terms” that were listed for my Lifetime Hosting License? I believe that the terms are different than what you can purchase today. So, a link to today’s terms is not what I am looking for. I tried the Internet Archive but couldn’t find anything.

I know that lifetime commercial or business licenses for LC were available in the past. What are their terms? Would that license also cover XAVVI? Or, are they going to be separate products?

Linda

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu May 11 13:27:26 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 12:27:26 -0500
Subject: Am I using the best mail client?
In-Reply-To: <278EF17B-F6B0-411B-990D-6166A1E74568@starfirelighting.com>
References: <278EF17B-F6B0-411B-990D-6166A1E74568@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <1880bda7430.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

I use Thunderbird. Like Matthias, I set up a rule to move list mail into a 
subfolder where I can sort by date, author,, subject, or any other 
attribute. It supportsl threading. There are several layouts you can use 
depending on how you like to organize and view mail. You can color-code 
emails automatically on arrival, or manually if you want to mark one for 
special reasons. You can drag-drop mail from one folder to another even 
across accounts.

There are a lot of options so you can customize it however you want.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 11, 2023 11:33:31 AM Craig Newman via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Since I got real help here, and not on the forum(hmph), I am wondering if 
> the eMail client I am using is one reason I do not prefer this venue.
>
> I am using the native Mac Mail client. Are there much better ones?
>
> Craig
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From heather at livecode.com  Thu May 11 13:35:38 2023
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 18:35:38 +0100
Subject: Old license etc.
In-Reply-To: <2C5C6A29-A93A-4FF4-A4B4-B7F2C441B0D4@gmail.com>
References: <2C5C6A29-A93A-4FF4-A4B4-B7F2C441B0D4@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F95383D7-1091-4C88-BAE0-78D1CB1112F1@livecode.com>

Linda, please post your query to support at livecode.com and I'll be happy to help.

Best Regards,

Heather
Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 11 May 2023, at 18:02, Linda Miller via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I have been away from coding for years. I have a LiveCode Hosting Lifetime License that, I think, I bought during one of LC’s campaigns for HTML5 to be built. 
> 
> Whatever happened with HTML5 and LC?
> How can I find the “terms” that were listed for my Lifetime Hosting License? I believe that the terms are different than what you can purchase today. So, a link to today’s terms is not what I am looking for. I tried the Internet Archive but couldn’t find anything.
> 
> I know that lifetime commercial or business licenses for LC were available in the past. What are their terms? Would that license also cover XAVVI? Or, are they going to be separate products?
> 
> Linda
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From phil at pdslabs.net  Thu May 11 13:36:40 2023
From: phil at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 10:36:40 -0700
Subject: Am I using the best mail client?
In-Reply-To: <1880bda7430.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <278EF17B-F6B0-411B-990D-6166A1E74568@starfirelighting.com>
 <1880bda7430.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <cb11ecba-acd8-2768-170d-1fd41d280399@pdslabs.net>

Thunderbird for me as well, for all the reasons Jacque stated.

Phil Davis


On 5/11/23 10:27 AM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
> I use Thunderbird. Like Matthias, I set up a rule to move list mail 
> into a subfolder where I can sort by date, author,, subject, or any 
> other attribute. It supportsl threading. There are several layouts you 
> can use depending on how you like to organize and view mail. You can 
> color-code emails automatically on arrival, or manually if you want to 
> mark one for special reasons. You can drag-drop mail from one folder 
> to another even across accounts.
>
> There are a lot of options so you can customize it however you want.
>
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On May 11, 2023 11:33:31 AM Craig Newman via use-livecode 
> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> Since I got real help here, and not on the forum(hmph), I am 
>> wondering if the eMail client I am using is one reason I do not 
>> prefer this venue.
>>
>> I am using the native Mac Mail client. Are there much better ones?
>>
>> Craig
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

-- 
Phil Davis
(503) 307-4363



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Thu May 11 14:01:18 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 20:01:18 +0200
Subject: Old license etc.
In-Reply-To: <2C5C6A29-A93A-4FF4-A4B4-B7F2C441B0D4@gmail.com>
References: <2C5C6A29-A93A-4FF4-A4B4-B7F2C441B0D4@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6814C67D-12C4-4319-B0D4-D7C6E00E08E4@m-r-d.de>

Although Heather asked you to send your query to support I would like to chime in, as I think some of your questions are more general. ;)

I also have Livecode (aka On-Rev) lifetime hosting. This is just Webhosting but also with the possibility to use Livecode Server on that hosting account, even if you do not own a Livecode Server license or subscription.
According to the date when you've had  purchased the lifetime hosting package it includes either 100 or 50GB. That is definitely enough for hosting several web sites.;)

HTML5 is still in development and the progress which can be seen in LC 10DP4 or 5, is very promising.

Kevin stated that Xavvi is a separate product which has to be licensed separately because it's nature that it is more than a cloud service.
I think that is reasonable.
There was a Q&A yesterday about Xavvi which maybe of interest for you.
Since it is publicly available, i think it's okay if i post the Youtube link here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAHGn8PSdAA

Regards,
Matthias

> Am 11.05.2023 um 19:02 schrieb Linda Miller via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> I have been away from coding for years. I have a LiveCode Hosting Lifetime License that, I think, I bought during one of LC’s campaigns for HTML5 to be built. 
> 
> Whatever happened with HTML5 and LC?
> How can I find the “terms” that were listed for my Lifetime Hosting License? I believe that the terms are different than what you can purchase today. So, a link to today’s terms is not what I am looking for. I tried the Internet Archive but couldn’t find anything.
> 
> I know that lifetime commercial or business licenses for LC were available in the past. What are their terms? Would that license also cover XAVVI? Or, are they going to be separate products?
> 
> Linda
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Thu May 11 14:02:36 2023
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 21:02:36 +0300
Subject: Am I using the best mail client?
In-Reply-To: <cb11ecba-acd8-2768-170d-1fd41d280399@pdslabs.net>
References: <278EF17B-F6B0-411B-990D-6166A1E74568@starfirelighting.com>
 <1880bda7430.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <cb11ecba-acd8-2768-170d-1fd41d280399@pdslabs.net>
Message-ID: <CAL3fwtgWxyLSpRFv8NHPpe_5YEQsMmARvy4fMXHb0EM32_grDw@mail.gmail.com>

I use Betterbird, an improved split off from Thunderbird.

On Thu, 11 May 2023, 20:37 Phil Davis via use-livecode, <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Thunderbird for me as well, for all the reasons Jacque stated.
>
> Phil Davis
>
>
> On 5/11/23 10:27 AM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
> > I use Thunderbird. Like Matthias, I set up a rule to move list mail
> > into a subfolder where I can sort by date, author,, subject, or any
> > other attribute. It supportsl threading. There are several layouts you
> > can use depending on how you like to organize and view mail. You can
> > color-code emails automatically on arrival, or manually if you want to
> > mark one for special reasons. You can drag-drop mail from one folder
> > to another even across accounts.
> >
> > There are a lot of options so you can customize it however you want.
> >
> > --
> > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> > On May 11, 2023 11:33:31 AM Craig Newman via use-livecode
> > <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Since I got real help here, and not on the forum(hmph), I am
> >> wondering if the eMail client I am using is one reason I do not
> >> prefer this venue.
> >>
> >> I am using the native Mac “Mail’ client. Are there much better ones?
> >>
> >> Craig
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> --
> Phil Davis
> (503) 307-4363
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From craig at starfirelighting.com  Thu May 11 14:51:11 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 14:51:11 -0400
Subject: Am I using the best mail client?
In-Reply-To: <CAL3fwtgWxyLSpRFv8NHPpe_5YEQsMmARvy4fMXHb0EM32_grDw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <278EF17B-F6B0-411B-990D-6166A1E74568@starfirelighting.com>
 <1880bda7430.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <cb11ecba-acd8-2768-170d-1fd41d280399@pdslabs.net>
 <CAL3fwtgWxyLSpRFv8NHPpe_5YEQsMmARvy4fMXHb0EM32_grDw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <96AF4AFA-0DE2-46FE-BA9B-F3E4DC0DA8A1@starfirelighting.com>

Thank you all.

I will stick with the Mac client.

The reason I like the forums better is what I see as a far more helpful UI. We all know how it works.

Enough said of this.

Craig

> On May 11, 2023, at 2:02 PM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I use Betterbird, an improved split off from Thunderbird.
> 
> On Thu, 11 May 2023, 20:37 Phil Davis via use-livecode, <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Thunderbird for me as well, for all the reasons Jacque stated.
>> 
>> Phil Davis
>> 
>> 
>> On 5/11/23 10:27 AM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
>>> I use Thunderbird. Like Matthias, I set up a rule to move list mail
>>> into a subfolder where I can sort by date, author,, subject, or any
>>> other attribute. It supportsl threading. There are several layouts you
>>> can use depending on how you like to organize and view mail. You can
>>> color-code emails automatically on arrival, or manually if you want to
>>> mark one for special reasons. You can drag-drop mail from one folder
>>> to another even across accounts.
>>> 
>>> There are a lot of options so you can customize it however you want.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>> On May 11, 2023 11:33:31 AM Craig Newman via use-livecode
>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Since I got real help here, and not on the forum(hmph), I am
>>>> wondering if the eMail client I am using is one reason I do not
>>>> prefer this venue.
>>>> 
>>>> I am using the native Mac “Mail’ client. Are there much better ones?
>>>> 
>>>> Craig
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> --
>> Phil Davis
>> (503) 307-4363
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Thu May 11 15:23:35 2023
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 22:23:35 +0300
Subject: Am I using the best mail client?
In-Reply-To: <96AF4AFA-0DE2-46FE-BA9B-F3E4DC0DA8A1@starfirelighting.com>
References: <278EF17B-F6B0-411B-990D-6166A1E74568@starfirelighting.com>
 <1880bda7430.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <cb11ecba-acd8-2768-170d-1fd41d280399@pdslabs.net>
 <CAL3fwtgWxyLSpRFv8NHPpe_5YEQsMmARvy4fMXHb0EM32_grDw@mail.gmail.com>
 <96AF4AFA-0DE2-46FE-BA9B-F3E4DC0DA8A1@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <CAL3fwtjUzYavdafLg7BymVHGY7QMBhQq5YjkXzzzs_trZCLB_w@mail.gmail.com>

We could transform this thread into a quite a spat as to the advantages of
the Use-List versus the Forums, but as Thee, Thee, Thee and Me are all so
fixed in our views it would only end in verbal bloodshed it best be let
alone: Thee with They words, and Me with My pictures! Let us attempt (at
the very least) some semblance of civilised discourse by leaving the topic
untouched and, with a nod of the head, a wink, and a smile  agreeing to
disagree.

Better be like that (however Thou feelest about the Subjunctive - and the
use of quasi-Germanic capitalisation) and listen, read, and learn from each
other than come to blows over something that will tarnish our shades when,
in time to come, we are mouldering in our sepulchres.

And, as to email clients, as my Granny said (or should have if my memory is
creative), "Taste is all in the mouth."

And, remember, only a Scotsman can produce English like that, or certainly
since the death of Samuel Johnson.

Yours, aye, Richmond Mathewson.

On Thu, 11 May 2023, 21:52 Craig Newman via use-livecode, <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Thank you all.
>
> I will stick with the Mac client.
>
> The reason I like the forums better is what I see as a far more helpful
> UI. We all know how it works.
>
> Enough said of this.
>
> Craig
>
> > On May 11, 2023, at 2:02 PM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > I use Betterbird, an improved split off from Thunderbird.
> >
> > On Thu, 11 May 2023, 20:37 Phil Davis via use-livecode, <
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Thunderbird for me as well, for all the reasons Jacque stated.
> >>
> >> Phil Davis
> >>
> >>
> >> On 5/11/23 10:27 AM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
> >>> I use Thunderbird. Like Matthias, I set up a rule to move list mail
> >>> into a subfolder where I can sort by date, author,, subject, or any
> >>> other attribute. It supportsl threading. There are several layouts you
> >>> can use depending on how you like to organize and view mail. You can
> >>> color-code emails automatically on arrival, or manually if you want to
> >>> mark one for special reasons. You can drag-drop mail from one folder
> >>> to another even across accounts.
> >>>
> >>> There are a lot of options so you can customize it however you want.
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> >>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> >>> On May 11, 2023 11:33:31 AM Craig Newman via use-livecode
> >>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Since I got real help here, and not on the forum(hmph), I am
> >>>> wondering if the eMail client I am using is one reason I do not
> >>>> prefer this venue.
> >>>>
> >>>> I am using the native Mac “Mail’ client. Are there much better ones?
> >>>>
> >>>> Craig
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> use-livecode mailing list
> >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >>>> subscription preferences:
> >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> use-livecode mailing list
> >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >>> subscription preferences:
> >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>
> >> --
> >> Phil Davis
> >> (503) 307-4363
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu May 11 15:33:48 2023
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 14:33:48 -0500
Subject: [semi OT] mySQL question
In-Reply-To: <5e4347eed32d6cda59d5f7aef973c763@souslelogo.com>
References: <5e4347eed32d6cda59d5f7aef973c763@souslelogo.com>
Message-ID: <1A0F058C-04C3-4909-A6F7-530AD1E8FA59@sonsothunder.com>

I would recommend a table for People, a table for Companies, and a table for Employment that acts as a linking table between the first two. Something like (at its simplest):

people
====
id 			INT(11)
first_name	VARCHAR(255)
last_name		VARCHAR(255)


companies
=======
id			INT(11)
name		VARCHAR(255)


employment
========
id			INT(11)
person_id		INT(11)	
company_id	INT(11)
job_descrip	VARCHAR(255)


To get a list of everyone that worked at a particular company, you'd do:

	SELECT * FROM people
	INNER JOIN employment ON (people.id = employment.person_id)
	INNER JOIN companies ON (employment.company_id = companies.id)
	WHERE companies.name="XYZ, Inc."

To get a list of all companies where a person has worked, you'd do:

	SELECT * FROM companies
	INNER JOIN employment ON (companies.id = employment.company_id)
	INNER JOIN people ON (employment.person_id = people.id)
	WHERE people.first_name="John" AND people.last_name="Smith"

Make sure to index the 'id' and '_id' columns, and you can use the employment.job_descrip to hold info on the particular job an individual had at a specific company.

This is all off the top of my head, so it may need a little massaging, but you get the idea.


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Website: https://www.sonsothunder.com


> On May 11, 2023, at 9:55 AM, jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi list,
> 
> This is a question for mySQL experts, which I am not.
> 
> I have a table of individuals.
> I have another table of companies.
> 
> Many individuals have worked in more than 1 company with
> different jobs descriptions.
> 
> I need to build my DB so that, with single requests, I
> can get a list of either :
> - all individuals who worked in a specific company with
> the job description of each one
> - all companies in which a specific individual has worked,
> along with the job description he had in each company.
> 
> The main problem is that the tables might become huge with
> the time (several Gb), so searching the tables might take
> forever if not carefully built.
> 
> I guess I will need to use a third table for the job descriptions
> and a combination of fulltext indexes and foreign keys
> might do the trick, but my limited skills don't allow me
> to find the best solution...
> 
> Any help will be much appreciated.
> Thank you in advance.
> 
> jbv
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode







From jbv at souslelogo.com  Fri May 12 04:57:07 2023
From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com)
Date: Fri, 12 May 2023 04:57:07 -0400
Subject: [semi OT] mySQL question
In-Reply-To: <1A0F058C-04C3-4909-A6F7-530AD1E8FA59@sonsothunder.com>
References: <5e4347eed32d6cda59d5f7aef973c763@souslelogo.com>
 <1A0F058C-04C3-4909-A6F7-530AD1E8FA59@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <ada3709317e8b060e1558f39022dd7b1@souslelogo.com>

Hello Ken,

Thank you so much for your answer.

Your solution confirms what I had more or less in mind.
I will give it a try asap.

Best,
jbv



Le 2023-05-11 15:33, Ken Ray a crit :
> I would recommend a table for People, a table for Companies, and a
> table for Employment that acts as a linking table between the first
> two. Something like (at its simplest):
> 
> people
> ====
> id  INT(11)
> first_name VARCHAR(255)
> last_name VARCHAR(255)
> 
> companies
> =======
> id INT(11)
> name VARCHAR(255)
> 
> employment
> ========
> id INT(11)
> person_id INT(11)
> company_id INT(11)
> job_descrip VARCHAR(255)
> 
> To get a list of everyone that worked at a particular company, you'd
> do:
> 
>  SELECT * FROM people
>  INNER JOIN employment ON (people.id [1] = employment.person_id)
>  INNER JOIN companies ON (employment.company_id = companies.id [2])
>  WHERE companies.name="XYZ, Inc."
> 
> To get a list of all companies where a person has worked, you'd do:
> 
>  SELECT * FROM companies
>  INNER JOIN employment ON (companies.id [2] = employment.company_id)
>  INNER JOIN people ON (employment.person_id = people.id [1])
>  WHERE people.first_name="John" AND people.last_name="Smith"
> 
> Make sure to index the 'id' and '_id' columns, and you can use the
> employment.job_descrip to hold info on the particular job an
> individual had at a specific company.
> 
> This is all off the top of my head, so it may need a little massaging,
> but you get the idea.
> 
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Website: https://www.sonsothunder.com
> 
>> On May 11, 2023, at 9:55 AM, jbv via use-livecode
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi list,
>> 
>> This is a question for mySQL experts, which I am not.
>> 
>> I have a table of individuals.
>> I have another table of companies.
>> 
>> Many individuals have worked in more than 1 company with
>> different jobs descriptions.
>> 
>> I need to build my DB so that, with single requests, I
>> can get a list of either :
>> - all individuals who worked in a specific company with
>> the job description of each one
>> - all companies in which a specific individual has worked,
>> along with the job description he had in each company.
>> 
>> The main problem is that the tables might become huge with
>> the time (several Gb), so searching the tables might take
>> forever if not carefully built.
>> 
>> I guess I will need to use a third table for the job descriptions
>> and a combination of fulltext indexes and foreign keys
>> might do the trick, but my limited skills don't allow me
>> to find the best solution...
>> 
>> Any help will be much appreciated.
>> Thank you in advance.
>> 
>> jbv
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> 
> Links:
> ------
> [1] http://people.id
> [2] http://companies.id


From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com  Fri May 12 11:31:48 2023
From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal)
Date: Fri, 12 May 2023 17:31:48 +0200
Subject: A spinner that keeps spinning
Message-ID: <CF75A365-34B4-450E-BBEB-2EA19617F71A@gmail.com>

Just a note that an improved version of WIS_BrowserAnimation has been released:

Version 1.0.4
- More efficient CSS code handling - only CSS code needed for the chosen animations is now included
- Added the possibility to animate text, with various fonts and styles
- The html/css code is now automatically put into a custom prop of the browser, called cHTML. So if you copy the browser widget, the code is conveniently exposed in the Property Inspector, Custom props tab.

Known issues: 
- Going (back) to a card with animated browser widgets on it, while using visual effects, seems to negatively impact the loading of the widget content, at least in the web deployment (i.e. it capriciously fails to load).

Web deployed example:
https://wheninspace.com/browseranimation/
(If the new version does not appear, make sure to clear browser cache or open in a private browser window.)

Source stack:
https://github.com/wheninspace/WIS_BrowserAnimation

/Andreas

From bogdanoff at me.com  Fri May 12 12:06:07 2023
From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff)
Date: Fri, 12 May 2023 12:06:07 -0400
Subject: A spinner that keeps spinning
In-Reply-To: <CF75A365-34B4-450E-BBEB-2EA19617F71A@gmail.com>
References: <CF75A365-34B4-450E-BBEB-2EA19617F71A@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BE66C846-FBA3-4B87-8AB5-5AE086ADD823@me.com>

Andreas, thanks again!

Am I supposed to be able to copy the CSS or the widget to the clipboard and paste directly into desktop LC? I tried using Safari and Chrome, but nothing ended up in the clipboard.

Peter Bogdanoff

> On May 12, 2023, at 11:31 AM, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Just a note that an improved version of WIS_BrowserAnimation has been released:
> 
> Version 1.0.4
> - More efficient CSS code handling - only CSS code needed for the chosen animations is now included
> - Added the possibility to animate text, with various fonts and styles
> - The html/css code is now automatically put into a custom prop of the browser, called cHTML. So if you copy the browser widget, the code is conveniently exposed in the Property Inspector, Custom props tab.
> 
> Known issues: 
> - Going (back) to a card with animated browser widgets on it, while using visual effects, seems to negatively impact the loading of the widget content, at least in the web deployment (i.e. it capriciously fails to load).
> 
> Web deployed example:
> https://wheninspace.com/browseranimation/
> (If the new version does not appear, make sure to clear browser cache or open in a private browser window.)
> 
> Source stack:
> https://github.com/wheninspace/WIS_BrowserAnimation
> 
> /Andreas
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From roland.huettmann at gmail.com  Fri May 12 12:24:54 2023
From: roland.huettmann at gmail.com (R.H.)
Date: Fri, 12 May 2023 18:24:54 +0200
Subject: mySQL question party
Message-ID: <CAG1Q0g-=uw5tR+=b_W7mqUvE+taUg92S-G1KkLhHOs-SmN2m9Q@mail.gmail.com>

Look up Google for the party entity relationships diagram or schema.

A "party" is either a "person" or a "organisation" (company, org) The party
is an entity ( table) that has an id. The org or person tables have a
foreign key to the party id. It is a mutual exclusive relationship. A party
must never be both.

Through the party id you have access to org and person.

The party interacts through a role and relationship table. So party "Smith"
with the role "employee" is employed by employer party "My company Ltd."
with the role "employer".

If you need the "role" entity is something you must decide. But the
relationship table is essential. Any relationship can be created with this
many-to-many table.

These are starting steps... )

Roland

From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com  Fri May 12 13:13:02 2023
From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal)
Date: Fri, 12 May 2023 19:13:02 +0200
Subject: A spinner that keeps spinning
Message-ID: <6B8ED556-2A1F-4340-AFA6-DBAB586ED21C@gmail.com>

Peter,

Well no, the web deployment is just for show, really. It’s the LC stack that is the actual tool, that you should download from GitHub to use. From the stack you can copy the widget or the code as you prefer.

I don’t think it’s currently possible to get the content of a field in web deployment into the general clipboard of your browser/computer. But if anyone knows a method, please let me know and I’ll implement it (javascript?). I hope that when LC 10 is released as stable, it will be a default function.

Also, in the web deployment you can’t import an svg/png/jpg or use the generic color swatch, which you can when running the stack in LC. So do get the stack in order to let loose your inner animation designer… :)

/Andreas

From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri May 12 17:56:53 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 12 May 2023 21:56:53 +0000
Subject: Am I using the best mail client?
In-Reply-To: <278EF17B-F6B0-411B-990D-6166A1E74568@starfirelighting.com>
References: <278EF17B-F6B0-411B-990D-6166A1E74568@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <16098D8C-7112-456B-B528-1335FFA18020@iotecdigital.com>

I thread my mail in Apple Mail, and I also have a rule which moves incoming mail from the list into its own folder. The trouble with that is that some mail clients quote at the top of the body, and others quote below. That makes reading a long string of emails and quoted replies nearly impossible to figure out. 

There was some talk years ago about the practice of only quoting the relevant body text, and not every single reply with quote, and reply with quote of reply with quote, and every reply with quote of every reply with quote of every reply... you get the picture. After reading through 20 replies of the same quotes over and over and over all these years, well it's a miracle I have not been "committed" yet. But I do not think very many really got the memo. Still, that simple change in the way people reply to emails would relieve I think most of the pain people feel in using a list. 

Bob S


> On May 11, 2023, at 09:30, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Since I got real help here, and not on the forum(hmph), I am wondering if the eMail client I am using is one reason I do not prefer this venue.
> 
> I am using the native Mac “Mail’ client. Are there much better ones?
> 
> Craig
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri May 12 18:00:58 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 12 May 2023 22:00:58 +0000
Subject: [semi OT] mySQL question
In-Reply-To: <ada3709317e8b060e1558f39022dd7b1@souslelogo.com>
References: <5e4347eed32d6cda59d5f7aef973c763@souslelogo.com>
 <1A0F058C-04C3-4909-A6F7-530AD1E8FA59@sonsothunder.com>
 <ada3709317e8b060e1558f39022dd7b1@souslelogo.com>
Message-ID: <4E6DF4F7-CD9F-4D0A-813A-F4A4EBAA4149@iotecdigital.com>

Just as an aside, I do not bother with joins, if I can help it. If I need data from multiple tables I query each table for just the data I need, and save it in discreet arrays, 1 per table. Of course, my needs are pretty simple. I typically have one parent table (the example suggested calls them Strong Entities) and and I only query data from the "child" tables (Weak Entities) as needed. 

My use case for example is: 

Customer
	[CustomerFiles]
	Sites
		Devices
			Accessories
		{DeviceFiles]
		Service
			[ServiceDevices]
		Subnets
		[SiteContacts]
	[SiteFiles]
	Contacts
	Files

etc. (entities in brackets like SiteContacts are just contacts with the sites they are linked to in a itemized string. Contacts are not dependent on sites but ARE dependent on Customers.)

I only query for one customer at a time, then all the sites for that customer, then all the devices for the selected site, then all the accessories for the selected device. As the user selects each Strong Entity, I query for the Weak Entities as necessary. 

I like doing it this way because having discrete arrays for each entity type makes coding for me much easier, and viewing the data for each table easier. The code necessary for querying for the Weak Entities I need is done in LC Script. It's much easier to grok than a complex SQL statement. 

I understand that there are definitely use cases where joins should be employed, such as finding all the sites who no longer have a customer (something I have since coded to prevent, but not before end users managed to orphan some sites.) 

I think too often people who really understand and are adept at SQL tend to program in SQL instead of the language of the front end. To me this makes the solution much less manageable. Also, I am not that adept at SQL (and hope I never need to be.) :-)

Bob S




From dochawk at gmail.com  Fri May 12 19:53:49 2023
From: dochawk at gmail.com (doc hawk)
Date: Fri, 12 May 2023 16:53:49 -0700
Subject: Am I using the best mail client?
In-Reply-To: <16098D8C-7112-456B-B528-1335FFA18020@iotecdigital.com>
References: <278EF17B-F6B0-411B-990D-6166A1E74568@starfirelighting.com>
 <16098D8C-7112-456B-B528-1335FFA18020@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <5E8678AA-4B31-4374-804C-D3E410FAF41F@gmail.com>


bob belabored,

>There was some talk years ago about the practice of only quoting the relevant body text, and not 
>every single reply with quote, and reply with quote of reply with quote, and every reply with 
>quote of every reply with quote of every reply…

That predates this list, and for that matter the creation of NACBA, by decades.

For that matter, it predates the word “internet”, and the constant network connection.

Ancient etiquette is that it is simply rude (at best) to include entire messages, rather than trimming
to the parts to which you are replying.

And “top-posting”, placing your response before the message, was the mark of a newbie,
and treated harshly.

Which worked, until the “Eternal September” of 1993, when rather than once a year with 
new students, AOL started dumping a continual supply of newbies, faster than they could be assimilated.

[in fairness, the infrastructure in the 80s couldn’t handle the load of all that extra text—the backbone
got upgraded *to* 56k (bits/second) in the 80s!]



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri May 12 21:54:07 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 12 May 2023 20:54:07 -0500
Subject: Am I using the best mail client?
In-Reply-To: <5E8678AA-4B31-4374-804C-D3E410FAF41F@gmail.com>
References: <278EF17B-F6B0-411B-990D-6166A1E74568@starfirelighting.com>
 <16098D8C-7112-456B-B528-1335FFA18020@iotecdigital.com>
 <5E8678AA-4B31-4374-804C-D3E410FAF41F@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <18812d0b218.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

Because of how mobile email clients work, I top post when responding on my 
phone or tablet, and bottom post when I'm at the computer. But I do try to 
trim the original message regardless.

I guess you can tell where I am right now.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 12, 2023 6:56:07 PM doc hawk via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> Ancient etiquette is that it is simply rude (at best) to include entire 
> messages, rather than trimming
> to the parts to which you are replying.
>
> And top-posting, placing your response before the message, was the mark 
> of a newbie,
> and treated harshly.





From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com  Sat May 13 16:13:57 2023
From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal)
Date: Sat, 13 May 2023 22:13:57 +0200
Subject: A spinner that keeps spinning
Message-ID: <B96279F1-5123-4C36-9B2B-845A636A26EB@gmail.com>

Actually, my phrasing it that the web deployment of the browser animation tool is ”just for show” was being a bit unfair to it (I’ll blame not being a native English speaker :). 
It works very well as a web application, except for the - until now - inability to actually let you copy and use the code it produces.

Anyway, in v1.0.5 I’ve:
- Added the possibility to copy the code when running the web application (note that a urlDecode() must be done on the pasted text in LiveCode before using it)
- Added the possibility to enter an RGB value into the color field (works in the web application too)
- Made the design responsive on web too

I’m working on getting javascript to convey a clipboard content that doesn’t need urlDecoding, but at least you can extract your code from browser to LC now. 

I still recommend downloading and using the stack, though! :)

Web app: https://wheninspace.com/browseranimation/
Stack: https://github.com/wheninspace/WIS_BrowserAnimation

/Andreas

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue May 16 16:18:50 2023
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 16 May 2023 13:18:50 -0700
Subject: Looking for recent, complete Google OAuth2 example
Message-ID: <77b24fb3-ce3f-d065-7dbf-a960ea2d923b@fourthworld.com>

Anyone know of a good and *recent* example of using Monte's great OAuth2 
lib with Google's API?

I'm updating some stuff and have found that after the Big G changed 
their API in March my stuff needs revision. But the vastness of their 
docs have me poking around when I'm sure it's not a hard thing once I 
find the right example (sorta like the LC Dict: great when you already 
know what you're looking for <g>).

Side question:

tsNet is a well-crafted wrapper around the industry-standard cURL. 
Fabo.  But unless I've missed something, for all the great ways Charles 
has meticulously made scripting interfaces for cURL functionality, 
there's one thing I can't find documentation for: cURL's own syntax.

Does tsNet support cURL syntax directly, or must we convert the vast 
range of API documentation out there into LC-specific forms to use them?

I'd be done with going back and forth between LC and Postman if I could 
make a Postman-like tool right in LC.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems



From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Wed May 17 05:33:28 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 10:33:28 +0100
Subject: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor
Message-ID: <7F72B8F6-7CE3-4204-BDB2-A45E232FC78C@gmail.com>

I just watched the latest LC video showing how AI will be integrated into Xavvi/LC. https://livecode.com/xavvi/?updates/#tabbed-section <https://livecode.com/xavvi/?updates/#tabbed-section> (note: the URL is not an error, that is where the new video is parked). 

I hadn’t seen how this was going to be done before but  it’s a great UI with lot of useful options. This will completely transform how we write (and document) our code in the future. It looks like LC has give a lot of thought to this and the UI is extremely well done. If you haven’t backed the campaign so far I’d give this short 4 minute video a watch and be prepared to be blown away. 

Thanks LC. 
 

From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Wed May 17 05:50:48 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 10:50:48 +0100
Subject: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor
In-Reply-To: <7F72B8F6-7CE3-4204-BDB2-A45E232FC78C@gmail.com>
References: <7F72B8F6-7CE3-4204-BDB2-A45E232FC78C@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <210D5A3B-38C6-4FDE-B5A4-68851E64BF46@gmail.com>

Having just watched the latest campaign video (showing the integration of AI into Xavvi/LC — btw, I highly recommend giving this a watch) I have a question for LC. It’s likely that now (and perhaps for the foreseeable future) the AI will make coding and documentation errors in its recommendations. Has any thought been given as to how we capture these errors from the community (and fix them) so they can be fed back into the AI as training to improve the product? And, if such a mechanism will exist, might it also be applied to the current documentation (I’m thinking mostly of the dictionary) to improve that as well?

Thanks
Mark


> On 17 May 2023, at 10:33 am, Mark Smith <marksmithhfx at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I just watched the latest LC video showing how AI will be integrated into Xavvi/LC. https://livecode.com/xavvi/?updates/#tabbed-section <https://livecode.com/xavvi/?updates/#tabbed-section> (note: the URL is not an error, that is where the new video is parked). 
> 
> I hadn’t seen how this was going to be done before but  it’s a great UI with lot of useful options. This will completely transform how we write (and document) our code in the future. It looks like LC has give a lot of thought to this and the UI is extremely well done. If you haven’t backed the campaign so far I’d give this short 4 minute video a watch and be prepared to be blown away. 
> 
> Thanks LC. 
>  


From steven.crighton at livecode.com  Wed May 17 07:59:23 2023
From: steven.crighton at livecode.com (Steven Crighton)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 12:59:23 +0100
Subject: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor
Message-ID: <29699C9F-0787-4BB0-B092-EC3191733DE8@livecode.com>

Hi Mark

I’m really pleased to hear you enjoyed the video. What I would say is our testing so far has been extremely impressive, it was the inspiration to make that video. But you’re right, AI won’t get the script right every time and we have to handle that carefully. If the script that comes back won’t compile then Xavvi will intervene to make sure you are not actually accepting code that won’t run. However there may be instances where it supplies code that does compile but is still not what you hoped for, in the first instance we are providing an opt in to training feature where you can provide a thumbs up or thumbs down to the code you have been supplied as well as give a description on what was good or bad about it. Additionally there will always be options to accept or decline the result and try again with a slightly tweaked prompt. I hope this helps. 


From 1anmldr1 at gmail.com  Wed May 17 10:11:24 2023
From: 1anmldr1 at gmail.com (Linda Miller)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 08:11:24 -0600
Subject: XAVVI and app/code copyright
Message-ID: <406DB356-2CAF-4652-8B1C-1518F5883DD9@gmail.com>

Will code and apps be copyright protected for the developer or LiveCode Ltd? Are we 100% sure of this answer? Is there a statement declaring this?

Linda

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed May 17 12:21:58 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 11:21:58 -0500
Subject: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor
In-Reply-To: <7F72B8F6-7CE3-4204-BDB2-A45E232FC78C@gmail.com>
References: <7F72B8F6-7CE3-4204-BDB2-A45E232FC78C@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1882a84ac70.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

I want the widgets and layout functions. I had to make a form yesterday 
with lots of fields and while it isn't hard, it took 20 minutes to name 
everything and align the labels and entry fields. If Xavvi can do that in a 
few seconds it would save me time and my clients money. There's a lot of 
mindless tinkering we do that isn't script-related.

I'm hoping Xavvi will also do dynamic resizing. Even with the Magic Palette 
it's difficult.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 17, 2023 4:35:52 AM Mark Smith via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I just watched the latest LC video showing how AI will be integrated into 
> Xavvi/LC. https://livecode.com/xavvi/?updates/#tabbed-section 
> <https://livecode.com/xavvi/?updates/#tabbed-section> (note: the URL is not 
> an error, that is where the new video is parked).
>
> I hadnt seen how this was going to be done before but  its a great UI 
> with lot of useful options. This will completely transform how we write 
> (and document) our code in the future. It looks like LC has give a lot of 
> thought to this and the UI is extremely well done. If you havent backed 
> the campaign so far Id give this short 4 minute video a watch and be 
> prepared to be blown away.
>
> Thanks LC.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From paul at researchware.com  Wed May 17 12:50:06 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 12:50:06 -0400
Subject: XAVVI and app/code copyright
In-Reply-To: <406DB356-2CAF-4652-8B1C-1518F5883DD9@gmail.com>
References: <406DB356-2CAF-4652-8B1C-1518F5883DD9@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3afe8dbe-5161-1bb2-4fa5-6bb913650694@researchware.com>

Xavvi generates livecode script as directed by you. Just as livecode 
script you create now is copywritable, whether you write each lie by 
hand or copy some code from a freely available library, the finished 
application you make can be copyrighted by you. Same with Xavvi.

On 5/17/2023 10:11 AM, Linda Miller via use-livecode wrote:
> Will code and apps be copyright protected for the developer or LiveCode Ltd? Are we 100% sure of this answer? Is there a statement declaring this?
>
> Linda
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From dochawk at gmail.com  Wed May 17 13:27:09 2023
From: dochawk at gmail.com (doc hawk)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 10:27:09 -0700
Subject: XAVVI and app/code copyright
In-Reply-To: <3afe8dbe-5161-1bb2-4fa5-6bb913650694@researchware.com>
References: <406DB356-2CAF-4652-8B1C-1518F5883DD9@gmail.com>
 <3afe8dbe-5161-1bb2-4fa5-6bb913650694@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <71143118-8D18-4599-904F-7310372F4486@gmail.com>



paul provided,


>Just as livecode script you create now is copywritable, whether you write each line 
>by hand or copy some code from a freely available library, the finished application you
> make can be copyrighted by you. Same with Xavvi.

This is far less than clear user current US law . . .

It’s not my area of law, but I’ve been following case reports, and both the current status 
and what is likely to change are clear as mud.




From jiml at netrin.com  Wed May 17 14:45:04 2023
From: jiml at netrin.com (Jim Lambert)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 11:45:04 -0700
Subject: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1684339201.410197.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.1.1684339201.410197.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <AC8A3D07-0AB3-41F6-8F9D-126F74394D73@netrin.com>

Stephen wrote:
> we are providing an opt in to training feature where you can provide a thumbs up or thumbs down to the code you have been supplied as well as give a description on what was good or bad about it. 

And perhaps offer a way to accept code that we re-write so that it does work as we intended. This presumably improved code might then be used to 'educate' the LLM.

Jim Lambert


From dan at clearvisiontech.com  Wed May 17 15:37:39 2023
From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 19:37:39 +0000
Subject: Android Push Messaging issue
In-Reply-To: <AC8A3D07-0AB3-41F6-8F9D-126F74394D73@netrin.com>
References: <mailman.1.1684339201.410197.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <AC8A3D07-0AB3-41F6-8F9D-126F74394D73@netrin.com>
Message-ID: <BYAPR12MB27098E94FFB99C89DE79375EB97E9@BYAPR12MB2709.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>

I am stumped!    I have an app that where push messaging is working fine using Legacy Cloud Messaging (and LC 9.6.2).  I have setup the new Firebase Cloud Messaging and downloaded the new “google-services.json” file and included it in my updated standalone (LC 10.0.0).  The app when launched on a device is registering a valid token.   When I use the Firebase Cloud Messaging test tool (and include the token from my app) it says a message was sent successfully but was not received on the device.   Any thoughts?

FYI… Sending from our server gives the same result:  sent successfully, but no push to the physical device.

If it matters, both Firebase Cloud Messaging API and the Legacy Cloud Messaging services are enabled (because the non-Firebase app is still being used in production).

-Dan

From merakosp at gmail.com  Wed May 17 16:19:48 2023
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis m)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 23:19:48 +0300
Subject: Android Push Messaging issue
In-Reply-To: <BYAPR12MB27098E94FFB99C89DE79375EB97E9@BYAPR12MB2709.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
References: <mailman.1.1684339201.410197.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <AC8A3D07-0AB3-41F6-8F9D-126F74394D73@netrin.com>
 <BYAPR12MB27098E94FFB99C89DE79375EB97E9@BYAPR12MB2709.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq-SCDBO6MudWhFwkhh55Dw7nUUfuqDuRzkqge8M5ivmcQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Dan,

Have you seen this lesson?

https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4069/l/1473964-how-do-i-use-push-notifications-with-android-in-livecode-9-6-5

What is your code that handles the notification?

Kind regards,
Panos

On Wed, 17 May 2023, 22:38 Dan Friedman via use-livecode, <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I am stumped!    I have an app that where push messaging is working fine
> using Legacy Cloud Messaging (and LC 9.6.2).  I have setup the new Firebase
> Cloud Messaging and downloaded the new “google-services.json” file and
> included it in my updated standalone (LC 10.0.0).  The app when launched on
> a device is registering a valid token.   When I use the Firebase Cloud
> Messaging test tool (and include the token from my app) it says a message
> was sent successfully but was not received on the device.   Any thoughts?
>
> FYI… Sending from our server gives the same result:  sent successfully,
> but no push to the physical device.
>
> If it matters, both Firebase Cloud Messaging API and the Legacy Cloud
> Messaging services are enabled (because the non-Firebase app is still being
> used in production).
>
> -Dan
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Wed May 17 16:33:05 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 21:33:05 +0100
Subject: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor
In-Reply-To: <1882a84ac70.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <7F72B8F6-7CE3-4204-BDB2-A45E232FC78C@gmail.com>
 <1882a84ac70.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <2ECD89C4-764F-43DC-B8E9-9448D3B070E8@gmail.com>

Good point. I want that too. Ditto with dynamic resizing. 

> On 17 May 2023, at 5:21 pm, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I want the widgets and layout functions. I had to make a form yesterday with lots of fields and while it isn't hard, it took 20 minutes to name everything and align the labels and entry fields. If Xavvi can do that in a few seconds it would save me time and my clients money. There's a lot of mindless tinkering we do that isn't script-related.


From dan at clearvisiontech.com  Wed May 17 16:59:58 2023
From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 20:59:58 +0000
Subject: Android Push Messaging issue
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq-SCDBO6MudWhFwkhh55Dw7nUUfuqDuRzkqge8M5ivmcQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1.1684339201.410197.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <AC8A3D07-0AB3-41F6-8F9D-126F74394D73@netrin.com>
 <BYAPR12MB27098E94FFB99C89DE79375EB97E9@BYAPR12MB2709.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
 <CA+JfEq-SCDBO6MudWhFwkhh55Dw7nUUfuqDuRzkqge8M5ivmcQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BYAPR12MB27097F7C2F9748619171F097B97E9@BYAPR12MB2709.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>

Panos,

Thank you for the reply.  Yes, I have seen that lesson – many times.  I have everything in place, and I have downloaded and installed the json file.  It’s not that the app isn’t getting the push message, it’s that the device isn’t getting the message – at all!  If the app is or is not launched, the device isn’t getting the message.  Even though Google says it’s been successfully sent.

FYI… I have another app that is using FB and it’s working fine.

Thank you!
-Dan


From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> on behalf of panagiotis m via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Date: Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 1:21 PM
To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Cc: panagiotis m <merakosp at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Android Push Messaging issue
Hello Dan,

Have you seen this lesson?

https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4069/l/1473964-how-do-i-use-push-notifications-with-android-in-livecode-9-6-5

What is your code that handles the notification?

Kind regards,
Panos

On Wed, 17 May 2023, 22:38 Dan Friedman via use-livecode, <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I am stumped!    I have an app that where push messaging is working fine
> using Legacy Cloud Messaging (and LC 9.6.2).  I have setup the new Firebase
> Cloud Messaging and downloaded the new “google-services.json” file and
> included it in my updated standalone (LC 10.0.0).  The app when launched on
> a device is registering a valid token.   When I use the Firebase Cloud
> Messaging test tool (and include the token from my app) it says a message
> was sent successfully but was not received on the device.   Any thoughts?
>
> FYI… Sending from our server gives the same result:  sent successfully,
> but no push to the physical device.
>
> If it matters, both Firebase Cloud Messaging API and the Legacy Cloud
> Messaging services are enabled (because the non-Firebase app is still being
> used in production).
>
> -Dan
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au  Wed May 17 18:38:10 2023
From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 22:38:10 +0000
Subject: Can Xavvi generate sensible text output as well as code?
Message-ID: <57AAA79F-CF93-4E4F-A185-0B4865B045A4@unimelb.edu.au>

Let’s say I have a whole lot of input statements/info, some of which is generic but some of which varies according by user. Any thoughts on whether it might be possible to leverage Xavvi to process and combine that info into useful prose summaries for each user in a way that I can’t already do in Livecode - ie generative AI text rather than merging into template text)?

Terry

Sent from my iPad

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed May 17 20:26:15 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 19:26:15 -0500
Subject: Can Xavvi generate sensible text output as well as code?
In-Reply-To: <57AAA79F-CF93-4E4F-A185-0B4865B045A4@unimelb.edu.au>
References: <57AAA79F-CF93-4E4F-A185-0B4865B045A4@unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <ee3c341e-b7ee-78ef-8394-eae6d2939375@hyperactivesw.com>

On 5/17/23 5:38 PM, Terry Judd via use-livecode wrote:
> Let’s say I have a whole lot of input statements/info, some of which is generic but some of which varies according by user. Any thoughts on whether it might be possible to leverage Xavvi to process and combine that info into useful prose summaries for each user in a way that I can’t already do in Livecode - ie generative AI text rather than merging into template text)?

Well, I'd expect so since Bard can do it, if I understand what you mean. Here's my test. (Bard 
thinks it's code.)

My prompt: Make a list of 10 people with first and last names. Combine each one into this 
sentence: "Hello firstname, I'm exploring the family tree of your lastname relatives." 
Substitute "firstname" with each person's first name and substitute "lastname" with their last 
name. Return a list, one person per line.

Bard says:

Here is a list of 10 people with first and last names, along with the sentence "Hello 
firstname, I'm exploring the family tree of your lastname relatives." with each person's first 
and last name substituted in:
Code snippet

Name | Sentence
------- | --------
John Smith | Hello John, I'm exploring the family tree of your Smith relatives.
Mary Jones | Hello Mary, I'm exploring the family tree of your Jones relatives.
Michael Brown | Hello Michael, I'm exploring the family tree of your Brown relatives.
David Williams | Hello David, I'm exploring the family tree of your Williams relatives.
Susan White | Hello Susan, I'm exploring the family tree of your White relatives.
James Green | Hello James, I'm exploring the family tree of your Green relatives.
Sarah Black | Hello Sarah, I'm exploring the family tree of your Black relatives.
Peter Brown | Hello Peter, I'm exploring the family tree of your Brown relatives.
Jessica Smith | Hello Jessica, I'm exploring the family tree of your Smith relatives.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From jacques.clavel at gmail.com  Thu May 18 05:46:35 2023
From: jacques.clavel at gmail.com (Jacques Clavel)
Date: Thu, 18 May 2023 11:46:35 +0200
Subject: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor
In-Reply-To: <29699C9F-0787-4BB0-B092-EC3191733DE8@livecode.com>
References: <29699C9F-0787-4BB0-B092-EC3191733DE8@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <CALD5CnjV9ui5TjH=oZrVhTqSnahT+tWCPfxKUC_WVM9orLOQjw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all and Steven,

I had pledged a few days ago to "Xavi Business 1 year" (499$) and now try
to extend it to "Xavi Business 2 Years" (999$).
But there is no option where I pay 500$ only to upgrade my pledge.
Please, how to do that ?
Jacques CLAVEL

Le mer. 17 mai 2023 à 14:00, Steven Crighton via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> a écrit :

> Hi Mark
>
> I’m really pleased to hear you enjoyed the video. What I would say is our
> testing so far has been extremely impressive, it was the inspiration to
> make that video. But you’re right, AI won’t get the script right every time
> and we have to handle that carefully. If the script that comes back won’t
> compile then Xavvi will intervene to make sure you are not actually
> accepting code that won’t run. However there may be instances where it
> supplies code that does compile but is still not what you hoped for, in the
> first instance we are providing an opt in to training feature where you can
> provide a thumbs up or thumbs down to the code you have been supplied as
> well as give a description on what was good or bad about it. Additionally
> there will always be options to accept or decline the result and try again
> with a slightly tweaked prompt. I hope this helps.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
Jacques Clavel

From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Thu May 18 06:38:04 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe)
Date: Thu, 18 May 2023 12:38:04 +0200
Subject: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor
In-Reply-To: <CALD5CnjV9ui5TjH=oZrVhTqSnahT+tWCPfxKUC_WVM9orLOQjw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALD5CnjV9ui5TjH=oZrVhTqSnahT+tWCPfxKUC_WVM9orLOQjw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1F293046-FDFF-4EA8-BAAA-4A8EACC6279B@m-r-d.de>

I did the same a few days ago. ;)
Heather told me to purchase a2nd 2 year (now 10  months) and she would take care that it would be combined  to 2 years. 



Von meinem iPhone gesendet

> Am 18.05.2023 um 11:48 schrieb Jacques Clavel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi all and Steven,
> 
> I had pledged a few days ago to "Xavi Business 1 year" (499$) and now try
> to extend it to "Xavi Business 2 Years" (999$).
> But there is no option where I pay 500$ only to upgrade my pledge.
> Please, how to do that ?
> Jacques CLAVEL
> 
>> Le mer. 17 mai 2023 à 14:00, Steven Crighton via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> a écrit :
>> 
>> Hi Mark
>> 
>> I’m really pleased to hear you enjoyed the video. What I would say is our
>> testing so far has been extremely impressive, it was the inspiration to
>> make that video. But you’re right, AI won’t get the script right every time
>> and we have to handle that carefully. If the script that comes back won’t
>> compile then Xavvi will intervene to make sure you are not actually
>> accepting code that won’t run. However there may be instances where it
>> supplies code that does compile but is still not what you hoped for, in the
>> first instance we are providing an opt in to training feature where you can
>> provide a thumbs up or thumbs down to the code you have been supplied as
>> well as give a description on what was good or bad about it. Additionally
>> there will always be options to accept or decline the result and try again
>> with a slightly tweaked prompt. I hope this helps.
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Jacques Clavel
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From craig at starfirelighting.com  Thu May 18 09:25:55 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Thu, 18 May 2023 09:25:55 -0400
Subject: Can Xavvi generate sensible text output as well as code?
In-Reply-To: <ee3c341e-b7ee-78ef-8394-eae6d2939375@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <57AAA79F-CF93-4E4F-A185-0B4865B045A4@unimelb.edu.au>
 <ee3c341e-b7ee-78ef-8394-eae6d2939375@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <781EF3DD-156E-4E1B-B112-E8CEC2E4F452@starfirelighting.com>

In Jacque’s “test” AI first had to create a list of ten “people”, garnered, I assume, from research into our planet’s knowledge base. It knew what a “name” should be. That is cool.

That list could have been a list of actual humans, derived from, say, the staff of a particular bank. 

If the list alone was in hand, it would take just a handful of LC code to create the string associated with each name.

How to integrate the AI part with the LC part? Again, one could acquire just the list, and then let LC generate the output string. But at least all would end up in a handler, fully in LC, where I assume additional “real” work would then be done.

What I mean is, how can one best integrate the “outside” AI work with the “inside” LC work? That is what I have to get my head around.

 Lurking in the background,I do not want AI to put LC out to pasture. I did that once with HC, and still have not gotten over it.

Craig

> On May 17, 2023, at 8:26 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> On 5/17/23 5:38 PM, Terry Judd via use-livecode wrote:
>> Let’s say I have a whole lot of input statements/info, some of which is generic but some of which varies according by user. Any thoughts on whether it might be possible to leverage Xavvi to process and combine that info into useful prose summaries for each user in a way that I can’t already do in Livecode - ie generative AI text rather than merging into template text)?
> 
> Well, I'd expect so since Bard can do it, if I understand what you mean. Here's my test. (Bard thinks it's code.)
> 
> My prompt: Make a list of 10 people with first and last names. Combine each one into this sentence: "Hello firstname, I'm exploring the family tree of your lastname relatives." Substitute "firstname" with each person's first name and substitute "lastname" with their last name. Return a list, one person per line.
> 
> Bard says:
> 
> Here is a list of 10 people with first and last names, along with the sentence "Hello firstname, I'm exploring the family tree of your lastname relatives." with each person's first and last name substituted in:
> Code snippet
> 
> Name | Sentence
> ------- | --------
> John Smith | Hello John, I'm exploring the family tree of your Smith relatives.
> Mary Jones | Hello Mary, I'm exploring the family tree of your Jones relatives.
> Michael Brown | Hello Michael, I'm exploring the family tree of your Brown relatives.
> David Williams | Hello David, I'm exploring the family tree of your Williams relatives.
> Susan White | Hello Susan, I'm exploring the family tree of your White relatives.
> James Green | Hello James, I'm exploring the family tree of your Green relatives.
> Sarah Black | Hello Sarah, I'm exploring the family tree of your Black relatives.
> Peter Brown | Hello Peter, I'm exploring the family tree of your Brown relatives.
> Jessica Smith | Hello Jessica, I'm exploring the family tree of your Smith relatives.
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Thu May 18 10:09:20 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Thu, 18 May 2023 15:09:20 +0100
Subject: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor
In-Reply-To: <29699C9F-0787-4BB0-B092-EC3191733DE8@livecode.com>
References: <29699C9F-0787-4BB0-B092-EC3191733DE8@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <5DD34B7D-C7A9-4512-A59B-989562B873C8@gmail.com>

Thanks Steven,

That sounds like a sensible approach. 

Mark

> On 17 May 2023, at 12:59 pm, Steven Crighton via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Mark
> 
> I’m really pleased to hear you enjoyed the video. What I would say is our testing so far has been extremely impressive, it was the inspiration to make that video. But you’re right, AI won’t get the script right every time and we have to handle that carefully. If the script that comes back won’t compile then Xavvi will intervene to make sure you are not actually accepting code that won’t run. However there may be instances where it supplies code that does compile but is still not what you hoped for, in the first instance we are providing an opt in to training feature where you can provide a thumbs up or thumbs down to the code you have been supplied as well as give a description on what was good or bad about it. Additionally there will always be options to accept or decline the result and try again with a slightly tweaked prompt. I hope this helps. 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu May 18 13:22:37 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 18 May 2023 12:22:37 -0500
Subject: Can Xavvi generate sensible text output as well as code?
In-Reply-To: <781EF3DD-156E-4E1B-B112-E8CEC2E4F452@starfirelighting.com>
References: <57AAA79F-CF93-4E4F-A185-0B4865B045A4@unimelb.edu.au>
 <ee3c341e-b7ee-78ef-8394-eae6d2939375@hyperactivesw.com>
 <781EF3DD-156E-4E1B-B112-E8CEC2E4F452@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <1882fe28f48.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

If you watch some of the videos posted on the challenge page it becomes 
clearer. LC AI will be integrated into the script editor and will create 
handlers as expected. You can accept, reject, or revise its output. LC AI 
knows all about what's available and how to use it. Bard, on other hand, 
doesn't know LC and can only offer generic output though it does know 20 
other coding languages.

Xavvi is built on top of LC and the team has reassured us many times that 
the LC we know is not going away. There will be regular updates and you are 
free to ignore the AI if you want. But given what I've seen so far, I'm 
betting most of us will use at least some of its features to save time or 
to expedite certain tasks.

We made the challenge! I'm happy.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 18, 2023 8:28:42 AM Craig Newman via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> How to integrate the AI part with the LC part? Again, one could acquire 
> just the list, and then let LC generate the output string. But at least all 
> would end up in a handler, fully in LC, where I assume additional real 
> work would then be done.
>
> What I mean is, how can one best integrate the outside AI work with the 
> inside LC work? That is what I have to get my head around.
>
> Lurking in the background,I do not want AI to put LC out to pasture. I did 
> that once with HC, and still have not gotten over it.





From harrison at all-auctions.com  Thu May 18 14:27:36 2023
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com)
Date: Thu, 18 May 2023 14:27:36 -0400
Subject: Can Xavvi generate sensible text output as well as code?
In-Reply-To: <781EF3DD-156E-4E1B-B112-E8CEC2E4F452@starfirelighting.com>
References: <57AAA79F-CF93-4E4F-A185-0B4865B045A4@unimelb.edu.au>
 <ee3c341e-b7ee-78ef-8394-eae6d2939375@hyperactivesw.com>
 <781EF3DD-156E-4E1B-B112-E8CEC2E4F452@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <D3ED0AC2-3D57-4F8A-B8DE-D0325B04D303@all-auctions.com>

I used ChatGPT to generate some test data for me.

It took several tries before it was able to give me
a dozen lines of useable data.  

I told it to separate each item with a comma and 
each line with a carriage return.  

Then I just copied and pasted the data into a 
spreadsheet program, created a .csv file from it, 
and imported into my postgresql database that 
my LiveCode server uses.

In your case, you could just copy and paste
the data into an LC text field or table.

Enjoy your day!

Rick

> On May 18, 2023, at 9:25 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> In Jacque’s “test” AI first had to create a list of ten “people”, garnered, I assume, from research into our planet’s knowledge base. It knew what a “name” should be. That is cool.
> 
> That list could have been a list of actual humans, derived from, say, the staff of a particular bank. 
> 
> If the list alone was in hand, it would take just a handful of LC code to create the string associated with each name.
> 
> How to integrate the AI part with the LC part? Again, one could acquire just the list, and then let LC generate the output string. But at least all would end up in a handler, fully in LC, where I assume additional “real” work would then be done.
> 
> What I mean is, how can one best integrate the “outside” AI work with the “inside” LC work? That is what I have to get my head around.
> 
> Lurking in the background,I do not want AI to put LC out to pasture. I did that once with HC, and still have not gotten over it.
> 
> Craig
> 
>> On May 17, 2023, at 8:26 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> On 5/17/23 5:38 PM, Terry Judd via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Let’s say I have a whole lot of input statements/info, some of which is generic but some of which varies according by user. Any thoughts on whether it might be possible to leverage Xavvi to process and combine that info into useful prose summaries for each user in a way that I can’t already do in Livecode - ie generative AI text rather than merging into template text)?
>> 
>> Well, I'd expect so since Bard can do it, if I understand what you mean. Here's my test. (Bard thinks it's code.)
>> 
>> My prompt: Make a list of 10 people with first and last names. Combine each one into this sentence: "Hello firstname, I'm exploring the family tree of your lastname relatives." Substitute "firstname" with each person's first name and substitute "lastname" with their last name. Return a list, one person per line.
>> 
>> Bard says:
>> 
>> Here is a list of 10 people with first and last names, along with the sentence "Hello firstname, I'm exploring the family tree of your lastname relatives." with each person's first and last name substituted in:
>> Code snippet
>> 
>> Name | Sentence
>> ------- | --------
>> John Smith | Hello John, I'm exploring the family tree of your Smith relatives.
>> Mary Jones | Hello Mary, I'm exploring the family tree of your Jones relatives.
>> Michael Brown | Hello Michael, I'm exploring the family tree of your Brown relatives.
>> David Williams | Hello David, I'm exploring the family tree of your Williams relatives.
>> Susan White | Hello Susan, I'm exploring the family tree of your White relatives.
>> James Green | Hello James, I'm exploring the family tree of your Green relatives.
>> Sarah Black | Hello Sarah, I'm exploring the family tree of your Black relatives.
>> Peter Brown | Hello Peter, I'm exploring the family tree of your Brown relatives.
>> Jessica Smith | Hello Jessica, I'm exploring the family tree of your Smith relatives.
>> 
>> -- 
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From paul at researchware.com  Thu May 18 15:41:56 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Thu, 18 May 2023 15:41:56 -0400
Subject: Livecode enhancements
Message-ID: <3450c4f1-ec99-1e4a-4229-c6139c14f9cc@researchware.com>

I ran into another time today where having the ability to define data 
structures (or templates) in Livecode would be a significant enhancement 
(for me at least) to the language.

I see these 2 enhancement requests that cover defining data 
structures/templates, although they are suggesting different things:

https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=4183
and
https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=9033

I may have missed some other enhancement for the same or similar 
feature. If you know of one, please let me know. I realize most work on 
livecode enhancements will be to support Xavvi and Livecode on the web 
and the things already planned for LC10 and 11, but someday, I really 
like to see a way to define a data structure and make instances of it in LC.




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu May 18 17:14:52 2023
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 18 May 2023 14:14:52 -0700
Subject: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor
In-Reply-To: <1882a84ac70.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <1882a84ac70.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <dcbbc157-edb8-42c8-3f14-e32d4e14db54@fourthworld.com>

J. Landman Gay wrote:

 > I had to make a form yesterday with lots of fields and while it isn't
 > hard, it took 20 minutes to name everything and align the labels and
 > entry fields.

If you need to do that again:

http://fourthworld.net/lc/4W_FormMaker.rev

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu May 18 17:51:08 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 18 May 2023 16:51:08 -0500
Subject: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor
In-Reply-To: <dcbbc157-edb8-42c8-3f14-e32d4e14db54@fourthworld.com>
References: <1882a84ac70.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <dcbbc157-edb8-42c8-3f14-e32d4e14db54@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <d87405bd-bba4-73ed-34b9-5dba36414396@hyperactivesw.com>

On 5/18/23 4:14 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
> J. Landman Gay wrote:
> 
>  > I had to make a form yesterday with lots of fields and while it isn't
>  > hard, it took 20 minutes to name everything and align the labels and
>  > entry fields.
> 
> If you need to do that again:
> 
> http://fourthworld.net/lc/4W_FormMaker.rev
> 

Cool. That does help with alignment and field creation. It would still need some tinkering to 
get the sizes and properties right but it's a quick start.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au  Thu May 18 19:47:38 2023
From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd)
Date: Thu, 18 May 2023 23:47:38 +0000
Subject: Can Xavvi generate sensible text output as well as code?
In-Reply-To: <1882fe28f48.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <57AAA79F-CF93-4E4F-A185-0B4865B045A4@unimelb.edu.au>
 <ee3c341e-b7ee-78ef-8394-eae6d2939375@hyperactivesw.com>
 <781EF3DD-156E-4E1B-B112-E8CEC2E4F452@starfirelighting.com>
 <1882fe28f48.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <ME3PR01MB80827A7E152B73486FC3A417B77F9@ME3PR01MB8082.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>

My day to day work is in medical education – and assessment specifically. I’m interested in using LLMs to (1) help generate assessment items (well draft versions of them at least) and (2) individualised descriptive feedback based on assessment performance.

But, rather than trying to get LC/Xavvi to do it all I think I’ll likely end up using LC draw on the relevant data to construct an appropriate query, passing that to the LLM (ChatGPT, BioMedLM or whatever) via API to generate and return the response, and then having LC deal with it from there (e.g. upload to assessment item bank for further work; assemble and distribute feedback report).

A few hours yesterday spent crafting and refining inputs and queries suggests that’s all entirely possible.

Should be fun!

> How to integrate the AI part with the LC part? Again, one could acquire
> just the list, and then let LC generate the output string. But at least all
> would end up in a handler, fully in LC, where I assume additional “real”
> work would then be done.
>
> What I mean is, how can one best integrate the “outside” AI work with the
> “inside” LC work? That is what I have to get my head around.
>
> Lurking in the background,I do not want AI to put LC out to pasture. I did
> that once with HC, and still have not gotten over it.

From 1anmldr1 at gmail.com  Thu May 18 23:19:54 2023
From: 1anmldr1 at gmail.com (Linda Miller)
Date: Thu, 18 May 2023 21:19:54 -0600
Subject: XAVVI and app/code copyright
Message-ID: <62089657-1CE4-41EB-91BC-92E78778AB66@gmail.com>

All that it would take is a simple statement from LC ltd to clear it up.

But, I am not really worried about it. I am just curious.

Linda


From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Fri May 19 05:28:24 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Fri, 19 May 2023 10:28:24 +0100
Subject: Can Xavvi generate sensible text output as well as code?
In-Reply-To: <1882fe28f48.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <57AAA79F-CF93-4E4F-A185-0B4865B045A4@unimelb.edu.au>
 <ee3c341e-b7ee-78ef-8394-eae6d2939375@hyperactivesw.com>
 <781EF3DD-156E-4E1B-B112-E8CEC2E4F452@starfirelighting.com>
 <1882fe28f48.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <FECA569B-865A-433D-BBA3-50A4326F90D8@gmail.com>

Jacque, well said. And I am also happy. It is a giant step forward for the platform (especially when you add in the other new capabilities). Congrats to everyone who contributed, and to Kevin and all the LC team. We made it happen. 

> On 18 May 2023, at 6:22 pm, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> If you watch some of the videos posted on the challenge page it becomes clearer. LC AI will be integrated into the script editor and will create handlers as expected. You can accept, reject, or revise its output. LC AI knows all about what's available and how to use it. Bard, on other hand, doesn't know LC and can only offer generic output though it does know 20 other coding languages.
> 
> Xavvi is built on top of LC and the team has reassured us many times that the LC we know is not going away. There will be regular updates and you are free to ignore the AI if you want. But given what I've seen so far, I'm betting most of us will use at least some of its features to save time or to expedite certain tasks.
> 
> We made the challenge! I'm happy.
> 
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On May 18, 2023 8:28:42 AM Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> How to integrate the AI part with the LC part? Again, one could acquire just the list, and then let LC generate the output string. But at least all would end up in a handler, fully in LC, where I assume additional “real” work would then be done.
>> 
>> What I mean is, how can one best integrate the “outside” AI work with the “inside” LC work? That is what I have to get my head around.
>> 
>> Lurking in the background,I do not want AI to put LC out to pasture. I did that once with HC, and still have not gotten over it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Fri May 19 05:33:50 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Fri, 19 May 2023 10:33:50 +0100
Subject: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor
In-Reply-To: <dcbbc157-edb8-42c8-3f14-e32d4e14db54@fourthworld.com>
References: <1882a84ac70.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <dcbbc157-edb8-42c8-3f14-e32d4e14db54@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <EC712A5C-4123-4301-87D6-5EECCA4F8D79@gmail.com>

Hi Richard, do you have a short introduction to FormMaker?

> On 18 May 2023, at 10:14 pm, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> If you need to do that again:
> 
> http://fourthworld.net/lc/4W_FormMaker.rev <http://fourthworld.net/lc/4W_FormMaker.rev>


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri May 19 11:51:53 2023
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 19 May 2023 08:51:53 -0700
Subject: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor
In-Reply-To: <EC712A5C-4123-4301-87D6-5EECCA4F8D79@gmail.com>
References: <EC712A5C-4123-4301-87D6-5EECCA4F8D79@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <eaed4b26-788e-ccbc-b133-fb6a68a7d889@fourthworld.com>

Mark Smith wrote:

 > On 18 May 2023, at 10:14 pm, Richard Gaskin wrote:
 >
 >> If you need to do that again:
 >> http://fourthworld.net/lc/4W_FormMaker.rev
 >
 > Hi Richard, do you have a short introduction to FormMaker?

"It makes forms." :)

I have a large number of simple tools (a GB by now?) I've made to help 
with things I've worked on over the years. They're not like products or 
anything, just simple stuff to get a job done.

In this case, it reduces the steps needed to make a simple text entry 
form down to the one thing that will always require variance: the names 
of the fields.  Type those in the field provided, click a button, and it 
creates a label and entry field for each line you'd entered, all inside 
a group so you can easily handle appearance things like text font and 
size, and script binding by looping through all members of the group (I 
tend to populate sets of fields from arrays, with field names matching 
keys so one simple handler gives me binding everywhere quickly without 
having to think about it).

Having a good GUI layout tool like LC valuable.
Having it scriptable to automate common tasks is invaluable.


Some day I'll get around to doing a writeup on a layout construction 
metalanguage I was working on a while back to extend layout automation 
in ways that provide the most construction with the least typing. Maybe 
that'll be a good kickoff for the radically-reimagined 
LiveCodeJournal.com in the works...

--
Richard Gaskin
Fourth World Systems


From dochawk at gmail.com  Fri May 19 15:21:38 2023
From: dochawk at gmail.com (doc hawk)
Date: Fri, 19 May 2023 12:21:38 -0700
Subject: XAVVI and app/code copyright
In-Reply-To: <62089657-1CE4-41EB-91BC-92E78778AB66@gmail.com>
References: <62089657-1CE4-41EB-91BC-92E78778AB66@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EFE02ECC-0A51-496C-94FB-08CC9DB02729@gmail.com>

I’m saying that in the US, it isn’t clear *that* there would be copyright protection for what the AI generated. The current caselaw for patents is that a machine can’t be a creator—but patent and copyright function differently (although I ultimately would expect the same answer for that particular question).


The changes made to the AI output would belong to the person that made them, regardless of the other answers.

But suppose that the AI output is subject to copyright.  If you took that, and changed it, and then someone asked the same or similar question, getting similar code from the AI, that wouldn’t be "derived from” your output from the same question, and thus would be separately eligible for copyright by that person.

Merely being identical is *not* a violation of copyright!

From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Sat May 20 09:22:34 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Sat, 20 May 2023 09:22:34 -0400
Subject: websockets...anything?
Message-ID: <CADCoycNx0_5Lj7eFfDDZmLoKQe=O_T13UO0R7jijUi87K-t6AA@mail.gmail.com>

any news from anyone on lc+websockets?

-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Tue May 23 10:48:19 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Tue, 23 May 2023 15:48:19 +0100
Subject: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor
In-Reply-To: <eaed4b26-788e-ccbc-b133-fb6a68a7d889@fourthworld.com>
References: <EC712A5C-4123-4301-87D6-5EECCA4F8D79@gmail.com>
 <eaed4b26-788e-ccbc-b133-fb6a68a7d889@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <C875D04B-F61A-47F2-8820-D369FED78726@gmail.com>

Thanks Richard. Worked as advertised, and nicely done. For a simple little utility I could see that it could save an enormous amount of time if you had a lot of forms to create. Actually I am working on a demo of sorts showing how to do no-code integration of SQL tables into LC and this little widget could come in very handy as a “quick form” builder. I may get back to you on that. 

> On 19 May 2023, at 4:51 pm, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Some day I'll get around to doing a writeup on a layout construction metalanguage I was working on a while back to extend layout automation in ways that provide the most construction with the least typing. Maybe that'll be a good kickoff for the radically-reimagined LiveCodeJournal.com <http://livecodejournal.com/> in the works...
> 


From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Tue May 23 15:31:21 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Tue, 23 May 2023 15:31:21 -0400
Subject: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor
In-Reply-To: <C875D04B-F61A-47F2-8820-D369FED78726@gmail.com>
References: <EC712A5C-4123-4301-87D6-5EECCA4F8D79@gmail.com>
 <eaed4b26-788e-ccbc-b133-fb6a68a7d889@fourthworld.com>
 <C875D04B-F61A-47F2-8820-D369FED78726@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycOGY4DryEkhQYWoEm1w=UrZ3GYXg-jE19EdVKP1VLSySA@mail.gmail.com>

didn't the old db library (which is still included with LC, and still
gets built into every standalone, whether you choose to include it or
not) have the ability to build forms from db's?

On Tue, May 23, 2023 at 10:49 AM Mark Smith via use-livecode
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks Richard. Worked as advertised, and nicely done. For a simple little utility I could see that it could save an enormous amount of time if you had a lot of forms to create. Actually I am working on a demo of sorts showing how to do no-code integration of SQL tables into LC and this little widget could come in very handy as a “quick form” builder. I may get back to you on that.
>
> > On 19 May 2023, at 4:51 pm, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Some day I'll get around to doing a writeup on a layout construction metalanguage I was working on a while back to extend layout automation in ways that provide the most construction with the least typing. Maybe that'll be a good kickoff for the radically-reimagined LiveCodeJournal.com <http://livecodejournal.com/> in the works...
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."


From tom at makeshyft.com  Tue May 23 20:24:17 2023
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Tue, 23 May 2023 20:24:17 -0400
Subject: websockets...anything?
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycNx0_5Lj7eFfDDZmLoKQe=O_T13UO0R7jijUi87K-t6AA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADCoycNx0_5Lj7eFfDDZmLoKQe=O_T13UO0R7jijUi87K-t6AA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPzQJL+6CRw1QB0x2QZ4xUsok_B7DCB6cQqdJvw=hpTDpNdhhA@mail.gmail.com>

Nope.

I'm wondering how long it would take to go look at specs and implement it.
Anyone in for a team effort? and we get it done without waiting for someone
else to do it?
Or is there a reason why it hasn't been done in all the years that web
sockets have been around?
Shrug.

On Sat, May 20, 2023 at 9:24 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> any news from anyone on lc+websockets?
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>    and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From tom at makeshyft.com  Tue May 23 20:26:43 2023
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Tue, 23 May 2023 20:26:43 -0400
Subject: websockets...anything?
In-Reply-To: <CAPzQJL+6CRw1QB0x2QZ4xUsok_B7DCB6cQqdJvw=hpTDpNdhhA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADCoycNx0_5Lj7eFfDDZmLoKQe=O_T13UO0R7jijUi87K-t6AA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPzQJL+6CRw1QB0x2QZ4xUsok_B7DCB6cQqdJvw=hpTDpNdhhA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPzQJLJKb9vAWWox5hyCPjPuE9MNBHxF2=CevMGnXX0FfYDsOA@mail.gmail.com>

Check out this forum post.

https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?t=37672&p=221502

On Tue, May 23, 2023 at 8:24 PM Tom Glod <tom at makeshyft.com> wrote:

> Nope.
>
> I'm wondering how long it would take to go look at specs and implement it.
> Anyone in for a team effort? and we get it done without waiting for
> someone else to do it?
> Or is there a reason why it hasn't been done in all the years that web
> sockets have been around?
> Shrug.
>
> On Sat, May 20, 2023 at 9:24 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> any news from anyone on lc+websockets?
>>
>> --
>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
>> On the second day, God created the oceans.
>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>>    and did a little diving.
>> And God said, "This is good."
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>

From daniel at digitalfauna.io  Wed May 24 05:42:19 2023
From: daniel at digitalfauna.io (Dan Brown)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2023 10:42:19 +0100
Subject: websockets...anything?
In-Reply-To: <CAPzQJLJKb9vAWWox5hyCPjPuE9MNBHxF2=CevMGnXX0FfYDsOA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADCoycNx0_5Lj7eFfDDZmLoKQe=O_T13UO0R7jijUi87K-t6AA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPzQJL+6CRw1QB0x2QZ4xUsok_B7DCB6cQqdJvw=hpTDpNdhhA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPzQJLJKb9vAWWox5hyCPjPuE9MNBHxF2=CevMGnXX0FfYDsOA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAC+qw6ik=iHcwYzOmNrR4hFrcRvSDsQmDc-txxG5MVPmGFJ5pQ@mail.gmail.com>

You could use STDIN / STDOUT from livecode to communicate with this
websocket server

https://github.com/joewalnes/websocketd

On Wed, 24 May 2023, 01:28 Tom Glod via use-livecode, <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Check out this forum post.
>
> https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?t=37672&p=221502
>
> On Tue, May 23, 2023 at 8:24 PM Tom Glod <tom at makeshyft.com> wrote:
>
> > Nope.
> >
> > I'm wondering how long it would take to go look at specs and implement
> it.
> > Anyone in for a team effort? and we get it done without waiting for
> > someone else to do it?
> > Or is there a reason why it hasn't been done in all the years that web
> > sockets have been around?
> > Shrug.
> >
> > On Sat, May 20, 2023 at 9:24 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >> any news from anyone on lc+websockets?
> >>
> >> --
> >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> >> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
> >>    and did a little diving.
> >> And God said, "This is good."
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Wed May 24 08:48:54 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2023 08:48:54 -0400
Subject: websockets...anything?
In-Reply-To: <CAC+qw6ik=iHcwYzOmNrR4hFrcRvSDsQmDc-txxG5MVPmGFJ5pQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADCoycNx0_5Lj7eFfDDZmLoKQe=O_T13UO0R7jijUi87K-t6AA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPzQJL+6CRw1QB0x2QZ4xUsok_B7DCB6cQqdJvw=hpTDpNdhhA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPzQJLJKb9vAWWox5hyCPjPuE9MNBHxF2=CevMGnXX0FfYDsOA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAC+qw6ik=iHcwYzOmNrR4hFrcRvSDsQmDc-txxG5MVPmGFJ5pQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycNVf1AJu6jCFoEbjkHAiRxZb1xP2VxkBe0ur6jY1C1cTQ@mail.gmail.com>

yeah, i'm off the forums, permanently. i dumped my account, and i'm
not going back.
anyway, i'm not opposed to teaming up. i started reading the RFC, and
then decided to ask, instead.
i also asked chatgpt to help write some code. it was not only
unhelpful, it made up crap that was complete BS. then it tried to
point me to "mergWebSocket", until I called BS, again, and it finally
said "oh, sorry, no bueño"

On Wed, May 24, 2023 at 5:43 AM Dan Brown via use-livecode
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> You could use STDIN / STDOUT from livecode to communicate with this
> websocket server
>
> https://github.com/joewalnes/websocketd
>
> On Wed, 24 May 2023, 01:28 Tom Glod via use-livecode, <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > Check out this forum post.
> >
> > https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?t=37672&p=221502
> >
> > On Tue, May 23, 2023 at 8:24 PM Tom Glod <tom at makeshyft.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Nope.
> > >
> > > I'm wondering how long it would take to go look at specs and implement
> > it.
> > > Anyone in for a team effort? and we get it done without waiting for
> > > someone else to do it?
> > > Or is there a reason why it hasn't been done in all the years that web
> > > sockets have been around?
> > > Shrug.
> > >
> > > On Sat, May 20, 2023 at 9:24 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> any news from anyone on lc+websockets?
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> > >> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> > >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
> > >>    and did a little diving.
> > >> And God said, "This is good."
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> use-livecode mailing list
> > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > >> subscription preferences:
> > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> > >>
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."


From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Wed May 24 08:50:06 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2023 08:50:06 -0400
Subject: websockets...anything?
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycNVf1AJu6jCFoEbjkHAiRxZb1xP2VxkBe0ur6jY1C1cTQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADCoycNx0_5Lj7eFfDDZmLoKQe=O_T13UO0R7jijUi87K-t6AA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPzQJL+6CRw1QB0x2QZ4xUsok_B7DCB6cQqdJvw=hpTDpNdhhA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPzQJLJKb9vAWWox5hyCPjPuE9MNBHxF2=CevMGnXX0FfYDsOA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAC+qw6ik=iHcwYzOmNrR4hFrcRvSDsQmDc-txxG5MVPmGFJ5pQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADCoycNVf1AJu6jCFoEbjkHAiRxZb1xP2VxkBe0ur6jY1C1cTQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycPPy4oGryb54VLsRP8FaVo2+nQ9itAFtR4mQ0RZ4Pum+A@mail.gmail.com>

i'm also more interested in using lc as a client on mobes than as a server.

On Wed, May 24, 2023 at 8:48 AM Mike Kerner <MikeKerner at roadrunner.com> wrote:
>
> yeah, i'm off the forums, permanently. i dumped my account, and i'm
> not going back.
> anyway, i'm not opposed to teaming up. i started reading the RFC, and
> then decided to ask, instead.
> i also asked chatgpt to help write some code. it was not only
> unhelpful, it made up crap that was complete BS. then it tried to
> point me to "mergWebSocket", until I called BS, again, and it finally
> said "oh, sorry, no bueño"
>
> On Wed, May 24, 2023 at 5:43 AM Dan Brown via use-livecode
> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > You could use STDIN / STDOUT from livecode to communicate with this
> > websocket server
> >
> > https://github.com/joewalnes/websocketd
> >
> > On Wed, 24 May 2023, 01:28 Tom Glod via use-livecode, <
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Check out this forum post.
> > >
> > > https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?t=37672&p=221502
> > >
> > > On Tue, May 23, 2023 at 8:24 PM Tom Glod <tom at makeshyft.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Nope.
> > > >
> > > > I'm wondering how long it would take to go look at specs and implement
> > > it.
> > > > Anyone in for a team effort? and we get it done without waiting for
> > > > someone else to do it?
> > > > Or is there a reason why it hasn't been done in all the years that web
> > > > sockets have been around?
> > > > Shrug.
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, May 20, 2023 at 9:24 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> any news from anyone on lc+websockets?
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> > > >> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> > > >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
> > > >>    and did a little diving.
> > > >> And God said, "This is good."
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> use-livecode mailing list
> > > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > > >> subscription preferences:
> > > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > use-livecode mailing list
> > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > > subscription preferences:
> > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>    and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."



-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."


From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Wed May 24 09:00:54 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2023 09:00:54 -0400
Subject: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycOGY4DryEkhQYWoEm1w=UrZ3GYXg-jE19EdVKP1VLSySA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <EC712A5C-4123-4301-87D6-5EECCA4F8D79@gmail.com>
 <eaed4b26-788e-ccbc-b133-fb6a68a7d889@fourthworld.com>
 <C875D04B-F61A-47F2-8820-D369FED78726@gmail.com>
 <CADCoycOGY4DryEkhQYWoEm1w=UrZ3GYXg-jE19EdVKP1VLSySA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycNTS6e212fkR8Y=QuL_76MN=HW2kYGJfXLd1KEghh3WcQ@mail.gmail.com>

interesting piece on ycombinator on chatgpt and code:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36037559

over the weekend, i was messing around with websockets, and decided to
try messing with chatgpt to build a little library to implement a
websocket client in lc.
the results were ungreat.

On Tue, May 23, 2023 at 3:31 PM Mike Kerner <MikeKerner at roadrunner.com> wrote:
>
> didn't the old db library (which is still included with LC, and still
> gets built into every standalone, whether you choose to include it or
> not) have the ability to build forms from db's?
>
> On Tue, May 23, 2023 at 10:49 AM Mark Smith via use-livecode
> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Richard. Worked as advertised, and nicely done. For a simple little utility I could see that it could save an enormous amount of time if you had a lot of forms to create. Actually I am working on a demo of sorts showing how to do no-code integration of SQL tables into LC and this little widget could come in very handy as a “quick form” builder. I may get back to you on that.
> >
> > > On 19 May 2023, at 4:51 pm, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Some day I'll get around to doing a writeup on a layout construction metalanguage I was working on a while back to extend layout automation in ways that provide the most construction with the least typing. Maybe that'll be a good kickoff for the radically-reimagined LiveCodeJournal.com <http://livecodejournal.com/> in the works...
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>    and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."



-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."


From dan at clearvisiontech.com  Wed May 24 12:55:44 2023
From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2023 16:55:44 +0000
Subject: Android Status Bar Icon
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycNTS6e212fkR8Y=QuL_76MN=HW2kYGJfXLd1KEghh3WcQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <EC712A5C-4123-4301-87D6-5EECCA4F8D79@gmail.com>
 <eaed4b26-788e-ccbc-b133-fb6a68a7d889@fourthworld.com>
 <C875D04B-F61A-47F2-8820-D369FED78726@gmail.com>
 <CADCoycOGY4DryEkhQYWoEm1w=UrZ3GYXg-jE19EdVKP1VLSySA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADCoycNTS6e212fkR8Y=QuL_76MN=HW2kYGJfXLd1KEghh3WcQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BYAPR12MB2709854CF3A56F9A2527E5BEB9419@BYAPR12MB2709.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>

Greetings!   I am seeing inconsistent results on the status bar icon on Android.  On some devices (most running Android 9), the icon that appears in a push message is a white or grey square.  I have tried using a 24x24 PNG for the Status Bar Icon and I also tried a 512x512.   Another device running Android 10, displays the image just fine (at either size).  Is there an image size that I should be using?  Or are there incompatibility with LC and Android 9?

Anyone have any insight to this issue?

-Dan

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed May 24 13:54:42 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2023 12:54:42 -0500
Subject: Android Status Bar Icon
In-Reply-To: <BYAPR12MB2709854CF3A56F9A2527E5BEB9419@BYAPR12MB2709.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
References: <EC712A5C-4123-4301-87D6-5EECCA4F8D79@gmail.com>
 <eaed4b26-788e-ccbc-b133-fb6a68a7d889@fourthworld.com>
 <C875D04B-F61A-47F2-8820-D369FED78726@gmail.com>
 <CADCoycOGY4DryEkhQYWoEm1w=UrZ3GYXg-jE19EdVKP1VLSySA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADCoycNTS6e212fkR8Y=QuL_76MN=HW2kYGJfXLd1KEghh3WcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <BYAPR12MB2709854CF3A56F9A2527E5BEB9419@BYAPR12MB2709.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <1884ee616d0.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

Try 24 x 24.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 24, 2023 11:58:37 AM Dan Friedman via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Greetings!   I am seeing inconsistent results on the status bar icon on 
> Android.  On some devices (most running Android 9), the icon that appears 
> in a push message is a white or grey square.  I have tried using a 24x24 
> PNG for the Status Bar Icon and I also tried a 512x512.   Another device 
> running Android 10, displays the image just fine (at either size).  Is 
> there an image size that I should be using?  Or are there incompatibility 
> with LC and Android 9?
>
> Anyone have any insight to this issue?
>
> -Dan
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed May 24 13:56:47 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2023 12:56:47 -0500
Subject: Android Status Bar Icon
In-Reply-To: <BYAPR12MB2709854CF3A56F9A2527E5BEB9419@BYAPR12MB2709.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
References: <EC712A5C-4123-4301-87D6-5EECCA4F8D79@gmail.com>
 <eaed4b26-788e-ccbc-b133-fb6a68a7d889@fourthworld.com>
 <C875D04B-F61A-47F2-8820-D369FED78726@gmail.com>
 <CADCoycOGY4DryEkhQYWoEm1w=UrZ3GYXg-jE19EdVKP1VLSySA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADCoycNTS6e212fkR8Y=QuL_76MN=HW2kYGJfXLd1KEghh3WcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <BYAPR12MB2709854CF3A56F9A2527E5BEB9419@BYAPR12MB2709.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <1884ee7ff18.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

Oops I see you already did a 24x24. That's the suggested size. Maybe see 
what a 16 x 16 does.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 24, 2023 11:58:37 AM Dan Friedman via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Greetings!   I am seeing inconsistent results on the status bar icon on 
> Android.  On some devices (most running Android 9), the icon that appears 
> in a push message is a white or grey square.  I have tried using a 24x24 
> PNG for the Status Bar Icon and I also tried a 512x512.   Another device 
> running Android 10, displays the image just fine (at either size).  Is 
> there an image size that I should be using?  Or are there incompatibility 
> with LC and Android 9?
>
> Anyone have any insight to this issue?
>
> -Dan
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Wed May 24 15:58:10 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2023 20:58:10 +0100
Subject: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycOGY4DryEkhQYWoEm1w=UrZ3GYXg-jE19EdVKP1VLSySA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <EC712A5C-4123-4301-87D6-5EECCA4F8D79@gmail.com>
 <eaed4b26-788e-ccbc-b133-fb6a68a7d889@fourthworld.com>
 <C875D04B-F61A-47F2-8820-D369FED78726@gmail.com>
 <CADCoycOGY4DryEkhQYWoEm1w=UrZ3GYXg-jE19EdVKP1VLSySA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A9063093-3C5B-4D23-AF7A-B643CF1F2490@gmail.com>

Hi Mike, 

Not that I’m aware of. Apart from Richard’s utility, the only other way I’ve seen used is dragging items from the tools palette. Not a terrible process as no-code is involved in doing so (so you don’t have frustrations with syntax to deal with), but as Jacque points out, if you have a lot of this to do, it can get tedious. 

Mark

> On 23 May 2023, at 8:31 pm, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> didn't the old db library (which is still included with LC, and still
> gets built into every standalone, whether you choose to include it or
> not) have the ability to build forms from db's?


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu May 25 11:04:59 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2023 15:04:59 +0000
Subject: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor
In-Reply-To: <A9063093-3C5B-4D23-AF7A-B643CF1F2490@gmail.com>
References: <EC712A5C-4123-4301-87D6-5EECCA4F8D79@gmail.com>
 <eaed4b26-788e-ccbc-b133-fb6a68a7d889@fourthworld.com>
 <C875D04B-F61A-47F2-8820-D369FED78726@gmail.com>
 <CADCoycOGY4DryEkhQYWoEm1w=UrZ3GYXg-jE19EdVKP1VLSySA@mail.gmail.com>
 <A9063093-3C5B-4D23-AF7A-B643CF1F2490@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SJ0PR02MB7533DD6A1D7C4C47E02C4060B2469@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>

I create datagrids with some properties that help me with database queries. For instance one property is the name of the table I source for the data. So I came up with the idea of popping up a menu when I right click on a datagrid, where I can select a column from the table, and then wherever I click next, it will create a field and label in a group, all named after the column wherever I click next. The fields I produce also have a property for the column name, so when I populate a form, I provide an array of the datagrid data to the handler which iterates through all the fields looking for that property, and fills the fields with data from that array. 

So while creating forms is tedious, it can be made a good deal less tedious by doing some coding on the front end. 

Bob S


-----Original Message-----
Hi Mike, 

Not that I’m aware of. Apart from Richard’s utility, the only other way I’ve seen used is dragging items from the tools palette. Not a terrible process as no-code is involved in doing so (so you don’t have frustrations with syntax to deal with), but as Jacque points out, if you have a lot of this to do, it can get tedious. 

Mark

> On 23 May 2023, at 8:31 pm, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> didn't the old db library (which is still included with LC, and still 
> gets built into every standalone, whether you choose to include it or
> not) have the ability to build forms from db's?



From klaus at major-k.de  Thu May 25 11:22:47 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2023 17:22:47 +0200
Subject: Android and USB footswitch
Message-ID: <B12CE181-3E47-4F1B-9AB1-E86191611237@major-k.de>

Hi friends,

I'm still an active musician (bass guitar) and am currently playing in four bands.

Nowadays bulky music stands on stage are OUT and tablets are IN!
So I am considering to create a little app for myself to display PDF leadsheets 
(= lyrics and chord symbols) on an Andorid tablet, which I still have to buy. :-)

There are some USB footswitches, and I would like to use one of them to browse 
through the (multipage) PDFs (next page, previous page).

Anyone knows if these switches will act like an "external keyboard", means if they 
will just send any RAWKEY that I could catch in LC? 
Or will I need something created with LCB to do so?

Thanks for any hint!

P.S.
Since PDFs are not accessible via "mobilepickmedia" are there ANY other ways to add 
some PDFs later without having to download them from some URL?


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org  Thu May 25 11:41:53 2023
From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (William Prothero)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2023 08:41:53 -0700
Subject: Android and USB footswitch
In-Reply-To: <B12CE181-3E47-4F1B-9AB1-E86191611237@major-k.de>
References: <B12CE181-3E47-4F1B-9AB1-E86191611237@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <4742739B-0701-4A46-BFF7-1C42497F5356@earthlearningsolutions.org>

Klaus,
I'm a musician/hobbyist too. Check out iGigbook. It does all that stuff and it's cheap.
Bill Prothero

William A. Prothero, PhD
Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science
University of California, Santa Barbara

> On May 25, 2023, at 8:23 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi friends,
> 
> I'm still an active musician (bass guitar) and am currently playing in four bands.
> 
> Nowadays bulky music stands on stage are OUT and tablets are IN!
> So I am considering to create a little app for myself to display PDF leadsheets 
> (= lyrics and chord symbols) on an Andorid tablet, which I still have to buy. :-)
> 
> There are some USB footswitches, and I would like to use one of them to browse 
> through the (multipage) PDFs (next page, previous page).
> 
> Anyone knows if these switches will act like an "external keyboard", means if they 
> will just send any RAWKEY that I could catch in LC? 
> Or will I need something created with LCB to do so?
> 
> Thanks for any hint!
> 
> P.S.
> Since PDFs are not accessible via "mobilepickmedia" are there ANY other ways to add 
> some PDFs later without having to download them from some URL?
> 
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From klaus at major-k.de  Thu May 25 11:57:32 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2023 17:57:32 +0200
Subject: Android and USB footswitch
In-Reply-To: <4742739B-0701-4A46-BFF7-1C42497F5356@earthlearningsolutions.org>
References: <B12CE181-3E47-4F1B-9AB1-E86191611237@major-k.de>
 <4742739B-0701-4A46-BFF7-1C42497F5356@earthlearningsolutions.org>
Message-ID: <FC326F46-5B3F-4707-AB8B-D652DF88E38B@major-k.de>

Hi Bill,

> Am 25.05.2023 um 17:41 schrieb William Prothero via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Klaus,
> I'm a musician/hobbyist too. Check out iGigbook. It does all that stuff and it's cheap.

thank you, but what the webpage does not tell is, if it supports footswitches and if one can "easily" 
import own PDF files from the device itself!?

And I wanted create this by myself, just for the fun of it. :-)
So my questions are still unanswered....

> Bill Prothero
> 
> William A. Prothero, PhD
> Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science
> University of California, Santa Barbara
> 
>> On May 25, 2023, at 8:23 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi friends,
>> 
>> I'm still an active musician (bass guitar) and am currently playing in four bands.
>> 
>> Nowadays bulky music stands on stage are OUT and tablets are IN!
>> So I am considering to create a little app for myself to display PDF leadsheets 
>> (= lyrics and chord symbols) on an Andorid tablet, which I still have to buy. :-)
>> 
>> There are some USB footswitches, and I would like to use one of them to browse 
>> through the (multipage) PDFs (next page, previous page).
>> 
>> Anyone knows if these switches will act like an "external keyboard", means if they 
>> will just send any RAWKEY that I could catch in LC? 
>> Or will I need something created with LCB to do so?
>> 
>> Thanks for any hint!
>> 
>> P.S.
>> Since PDFs are not accessible via "mobilepickmedia" are there ANY other ways to add 
>> some PDFs later without having to download them from some URL?

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org  Thu May 25 12:31:38 2023
From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (William Prothero)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2023 09:31:38 -0700
Subject: Android and USB footswitch
In-Reply-To: <FC326F46-5B3F-4707-AB8B-D652DF88E38B@major-k.de>
References: <FC326F46-5B3F-4707-AB8B-D652DF88E38B@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <BFE44E83-1C3B-4AA6-AA18-5343004B970F@earthlearningsolutions.org>

Klaus,
I'm not sure if it is supported on Android, but on an apple ipad, it supports pdf display, foot switch (pager) and even has an addon for displaying realbook scores in different keys. It's very popular among concert musicians as well. Personally, I bought a large screen ipad that displays the scores at full page size and supports apple pencil annotating of scores. It's main drawback is the documentation for the app was written by the programmer and it's pretty unclear. I love the app anyway, though.

Downside is that the ipad is expensive, but sure makes keeping track of music a lot easier.

Best,
Bill

William A. Prothero, PhD
Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science
University of California, Santa Barbara

> On May 25, 2023, at 8:58 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Bill,
> 
>> Am 25.05.2023 um 17:41 schrieb William Prothero via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Klaus,
>> I'm a musician/hobbyist too. Check out iGigbook. It does all that stuff and it's cheap.
> 
> thank you, but what the webpage does not tell is, if it supports footswitches and if one can "easily" 
> import own PDF files from the device itself!?
> 
> And I wanted create this by myself, just for the fun of it. :-)
> So my questions are still unanswered....
> 
>> Bill Prothero
>> 
>> William A. Prothero, PhD
>> Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science
>> University of California, Santa Barbara
>> 
>>>> On May 25, 2023, at 8:23 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi friends,
>>> 
>>> I'm still an active musician (bass guitar) and am currently playing in four bands.
>>> 
>>> Nowadays bulky music stands on stage are OUT and tablets are IN!
>>> So I am considering to create a little app for myself to display PDF leadsheets 
>>> (= lyrics and chord symbols) on an Andorid tablet, which I still have to buy. :-)
>>> 
>>> There are some USB footswitches, and I would like to use one of them to browse 
>>> through the (multipage) PDFs (next page, previous page).
>>> 
>>> Anyone knows if these switches will act like an "external keyboard", means if they 
>>> will just send any RAWKEY that I could catch in LC? 
>>> Or will I need something created with LCB to do so?
>>> 
>>> Thanks for any hint!
>>> 
>>> P.S.
>>> Since PDFs are not accessible via "mobilepickmedia" are there ANY other ways to add 
>>> some PDFs later without having to download them from some URL?
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From klaus at major-k.de  Thu May 25 12:44:39 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2023 18:44:39 +0200
Subject: Android and USB footswitch
In-Reply-To: <BFE44E83-1C3B-4AA6-AA18-5343004B970F@earthlearningsolutions.org>
References: <FC326F46-5B3F-4707-AB8B-D652DF88E38B@major-k.de>
 <BFE44E83-1C3B-4AA6-AA18-5343004B970F@earthlearningsolutions.org>
Message-ID: <22A14A13-AB6B-4163-A2F7-F884826DE407@major-k.de>

Hi Bill,

> Am 25.05.2023 um 18:31 schrieb William Prothero via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> Klaus,
> I'm not sure if it is supported on Android, but on an apple ipad, it supports pdf display, foot switch (pager) and even has an addon for displaying realbook scores in different keys. It's very popular among concert musicians as well. Personally, I bought a large screen ipad that displays the scores at full page size and supports apple pencil annotating of scores. It's main drawback is the documentation for the app was written by the programmer and it's pretty unclear. I love the app anyway, though.
> Downside is that the ipad is expensive, but sure makes keeping track of music a lot easier.

sure, but I can definitively only afford a used Android tablet.

> Best,
> Bill

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From ahsoftware at sonic.net  Thu May 25 12:51:13 2023
From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2023 09:51:13 -0700
Subject: Android and USB footswitch
In-Reply-To: <B12CE181-3E47-4F1B-9AB1-E86191611237@major-k.de>
References: <B12CE181-3E47-4F1B-9AB1-E86191611237@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <c2b44ed7-b447-4995-cf7a-02ea2eb6c6c1@sonic.net>

On 5/25/23 08:22, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi friends,
> 
> I'm still an active musician (bass guitar) and am currently playing in four bands.
> 
> Nowadays bulky music stands on stage are OUT and tablets are IN!
> So I am considering to create a little app for myself to display PDF leadsheets
> (= lyrics and chord symbols) on an Andorid tablet, which I still have to buy. :-)
> 
> There are some USB footswitches, and I would like to use one of them to browse
> through the (multipage) PDFs (next page, previous page).
> 
> Anyone knows if these switches will act like an "external keyboard", means if they
> will just send any RAWKEY that I could catch in LC?
> Or will I need something created with LCB to do so?

I use a Lekato Page Turner. It also works with my Lekato Looper.

<https://www.amazon.com/LEKATO-External-Switching-Functions-Function/dp/B08GYHWGYH>

At one point I was also managing to play in four bands. Knocking it down 
to three simplified my life immensely. Highly recommended.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From klaus at major-k.de  Thu May 25 15:49:07 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2023 21:49:07 +0200
Subject: Android and USB footswitch
In-Reply-To: <c2b44ed7-b447-4995-cf7a-02ea2eb6c6c1@sonic.net>
References: <B12CE181-3E47-4F1B-9AB1-E86191611237@major-k.de>
 <c2b44ed7-b447-4995-cf7a-02ea2eb6c6c1@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <48138978-006A-4058-A5EA-751CA3E455F3@major-k.de>

Hi Mark,

> Am 25.05.2023 um 18:51 schrieb Mark Wieder via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> On 5/25/23 08:22, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hi friends,
>> I'm still an active musician (bass guitar) and am currently playing in four bands.
>> Nowadays bulky music stands on stage are OUT and tablets are IN!
>> So I am considering to create a little app for myself to display PDF leadsheets
>> (= lyrics and chord symbols) on an Andorid tablet, which I still have to buy. :-)
>> There are some USB footswitches, and I would like to use one of them to browse
>> through the (multipage) PDFs (next page, previous page).
>> Anyone knows if these switches will act like an "external keyboard", means if they
>> will just send any RAWKEY that I could catch in LC?
>> Or will I need something created with LCB to do so?
> 
> I use a Lekato Page Turner. It also works with my Lekato Looper.
> <https://www.amazon.com/LEKATO-External-Switching-Functions-Function/dp/B08GYHWGYH>

since LC does not support bluetooth on Android (yet?), I need an USB device. Or does it?
Remember, I want to do it by myself! :-)

Already found a cheap USB device on Amazhon which looks like it could do the job.
But first I need to get a cheap tablet with a not too old Android version, so LC will support it.

> At one point I was also managing to play in four bands. Knocking it down to three simplified my life immensely. Highly recommended.

I am retired, don't have family and a lot more time than money, no problem for me, Sir! :-D


However my two questions are still unanswered.
1. Anyone knows if these switches will act like an "external keyboard", means if they
will just send any RAWKEY that I could catch in LC?

2. Since PDFs are not accessible via "mobilepickmedia" are there ANY other ways to add 
some PDFs later without having to download them from some URL?

> -- 
> Mark Wieder
> ahsoftware at gmail.com

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Thu May 25 16:32:25 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2023 22:32:25 +0200
Subject: Android and USB footswitch
In-Reply-To: <48138978-006A-4058-A5EA-751CA3E455F3@major-k.de>
References: <B12CE181-3E47-4F1B-9AB1-E86191611237@major-k.de>
 <c2b44ed7-b447-4995-cf7a-02ea2eb6c6c1@sonic.net>
 <48138978-006A-4058-A5EA-751CA3E455F3@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <7864C712-4A5B-4AC5-ACC3-2E5F5BE8CC93@m-r-d.de>

Klaus, 

this footswitch for example is detected as HID device. 
https://www.scythe-eu.com/produkte/pc-zubehoer/usb-foot-switch-ii.html


The functions of the switch(es) have to be configured with the included software on a Windows PC first. After that the switch can be used on other devices without any additonal software.
As most Android devices will support USB keyboards, this should work. 

If the Android device has a memory card slot you could store the PDFs on a memory card and let your LC app then access this storage card. To update the PDF files you eihter have  to connect your tablet with your PC or Mac as an external drive or you could remove the memory card from the tablet and use it in a cardreader on a PC or Mac.

I have here an older table laying around which I could send to you. But i have to check its os version first.

Regards,
Matthias

> Am 25.05.2023 um 21:49 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi Mark,
> 
>> Am 25.05.2023 um 18:51 schrieb Mark Wieder via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> On 5/25/23 08:22, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Hi friends,
>>> I'm still an active musician (bass guitar) and am currently playing in four bands.
>>> Nowadays bulky music stands on stage are OUT and tablets are IN!
>>> So I am considering to create a little app for myself to display PDF leadsheets
>>> (= lyrics and chord symbols) on an Andorid tablet, which I still have to buy. :-)
>>> There are some USB footswitches, and I would like to use one of them to browse
>>> through the (multipage) PDFs (next page, previous page).
>>> Anyone knows if these switches will act like an "external keyboard", means if they
>>> will just send any RAWKEY that I could catch in LC?
>>> Or will I need something created with LCB to do so?
>> 
>> I use a Lekato Page Turner. It also works with my Lekato Looper.
>> <https://www.amazon.com/LEKATO-External-Switching-Functions-Function/dp/B08GYHWGYH>
> 
> since LC does not support bluetooth on Android (yet?), I need an USB device. Or does it?
> Remember, I want to do it by myself! :-)
> 
> Already found a cheap USB device on Amazhon which looks like it could do the job.
> But first I need to get a cheap tablet with a not too old Android version, so LC will support it.
> 
>> At one point I was also managing to play in four bands. Knocking it down to three simplified my life immensely. Highly recommended.
> 
> I am retired, don't have family and a lot more time than money, no problem for me, Sir! :-D
> 
> 
> However my two questions are still unanswered.
> 1. Anyone knows if these switches will act like an "external keyboard", means if they
> will just send any RAWKEY that I could catch in LC?
> 
> 2. Since PDFs are not accessible via "mobilepickmedia" are there ANY other ways to add 
> some PDFs later without having to download them from some URL?
> 
>> -- 
>> Mark Wieder
>> ahsoftware at gmail.com <mailto:ahsoftware at gmail.com>
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de <https://www.major-k.de/>
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de <mailto:klaus at major-k.de>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Thu May 25 18:03:28 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2023 00:03:28 +0200
Subject: Android and USB footswitch
In-Reply-To: <7864C712-4A5B-4AC5-ACC3-2E5F5BE8CC93@m-r-d.de>
References: <B12CE181-3E47-4F1B-9AB1-E86191611237@major-k.de>
 <c2b44ed7-b447-4995-cf7a-02ea2eb6c6c1@sonic.net>
 <48138978-006A-4058-A5EA-751CA3E455F3@major-k.de>
 <7864C712-4A5B-4AC5-ACC3-2E5F5BE8CC93@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <29354EAD-FFF8-4449-9EB7-D84711EFE88B@m-r-d.de>

Klaus,

> Am 25.05.2023 um 22:32 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Klaus, 
> 
> this footswitch for example is detected as HID device. 
> https://www.scythe-eu.com/produkte/pc-zubehoer/usb-foot-switch-ii.html
> 
> 
The following refers to the switch of the above link and not for all usb switches.

> The functions of the switch(es) have to be configured with the included software on a Windows PC first. After that the switch can be used on other devices without any additonal software.
> As most Android devices will support USB keyboards, this should work. 


From sean at pidigital.co.uk  Thu May 25 18:24:56 2023
From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Pi Digital)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2023 23:24:56 +0100
Subject: Android and USB footswitch
In-Reply-To: <22A14A13-AB6B-4163-A2F7-F884826DE407@major-k.de>
References: <22A14A13-AB6B-4163-A2F7-F884826DE407@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <559C7AFE-B912-4E4F-A32B-2E257D7B44F8@pidigital.co.uk>

Hi Klaus
Get something like this. 
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/404250759038?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=kxdzbfgltem&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=GspHaDqVTAS&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
A usb footswitch will work like a mouse but with a different signature. The hub will be picked up via the tablet in a LiveCode app through the usual Bluetooth lib. Once it’s in you need to connect to the usb port from the hub and listen for messages. 

There are also these which work even better with built in BT - designed for RaspPi
https://dylanbeattie.net/2020/05/17/turning-a-raspberry-pi-zero-into-a-usb-footpedal.html

All the best buddy. 

Sean Cole
Pi Digital


> On 25 May 2023, at 17:44, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Bill,
> 
>> Am 25.05.2023 um 18:31 schrieb William Prothero via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> Klaus,
>> I'm not sure if it is supported on Android, but on an apple ipad, it supports pdf display, foot switch (pager) and even has an addon for displaying realbook scores in different keys. It's very popular among concert musicians as well. Personally, I bought a large screen ipad that displays the scores at full page size and supports apple pencil annotating of scores. It's main drawback is the documentation for the app was written by the programmer and it's pretty unclear. I love the app anyway, though.
>> Downside is that the ipad is expensive, but sure makes keeping track of music a lot easier.
> 
> sure, but I can definitively only afford a used Android tablet.
> 
>> Best,
>> Bill
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

From harrison at all-auctions.com  Thu May 25 21:32:11 2023
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2023 21:32:11 -0400
Subject: Android and USB footswitch
In-Reply-To: <559C7AFE-B912-4E4F-A32B-2E257D7B44F8@pidigital.co.uk>
References: <22A14A13-AB6B-4163-A2F7-F884826DE407@major-k.de>
 <559C7AFE-B912-4E4F-A32B-2E257D7B44F8@pidigital.co.uk>
Message-ID: <B4249729-D314-473E-9D25-98CCD9A7C4FC@all-auctions.com>

Hi Klaus,

A  quick and really dirty solution:

Find an old wireless or BlueTooth computer mouse that you really don’t like,
and use it as a foot switch.  That will be super easy for LiveCode to detect too!

Have fun!

Rick

> On May 25, 2023, at 6:24 PM, Pi Digital via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> A usb footswitch will work like a mouse but with a different signature. 


From klaus at major-k.de  Fri May 26 03:23:07 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2023 09:23:07 +0200
Subject: Android and USB footswitch
In-Reply-To: <B4249729-D314-473E-9D25-98CCD9A7C4FC@all-auctions.com>
References: <22A14A13-AB6B-4163-A2F7-F884826DE407@major-k.de>
 <559C7AFE-B912-4E4F-A32B-2E257D7B44F8@pidigital.co.uk>
 <B4249729-D314-473E-9D25-98CCD9A7C4FC@all-auctions.com>
Message-ID: <BB7EAC76-B341-4546-A00F-2CDA76AC3277@major-k.de>

Hi Rick,

> Am 26.05.2023 um 03:32 schrieb harrison--- via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi Klaus,
> 
> A  quick and really dirty solution:
> 
> Find an old wireless or BlueTooth computer mouse that you really don’t like,
> and use it as a foot switch.  That will be super easy for LiveCode to detect too!

thank you.

However I said I will need a USB device, since LC on Android (ANDROID!) does not 
support bluetooth/wireless.

> Have fun!
> 
> Rick
> 
>> On May 25, 2023, at 6:24 PM, Pi Digital via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> A usb footswitch will work like a mouse but with a different signature. 

Best

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From klaus at major-k.de  Fri May 26 03:25:54 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2023 09:25:54 +0200
Subject: Android and USB footswitch
In-Reply-To: <559C7AFE-B912-4E4F-A32B-2E257D7B44F8@pidigital.co.uk>
References: <22A14A13-AB6B-4163-A2F7-F884826DE407@major-k.de>
 <559C7AFE-B912-4E4F-A32B-2E257D7B44F8@pidigital.co.uk>
Message-ID: <6BB0FBE8-8025-4405-BA95-7D6DCB41007E@major-k.de>

Hi Sean,

> Am 26.05.2023 um 00:24 schrieb Pi Digital via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi Klaus
> Get something like this. 
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/404250759038?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=kxdzbfgltem&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=GspHaDqVTAS&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
> A usb footswitch will work like a mouse but with a different signature. The hub will be picked up via the tablet in a LiveCode app through the usual Bluetooth lib. Once it’s in you need to connect to the usb port from the hub and listen for messages. 
> There are also these which work even better with built in BT - designed for RaspPi
> https://dylanbeattie.net/2020/05/17/turning-a-raspberry-pi-zero-into-a-usb-footpedal.html
> All the best buddy. 

thank you, I actually want an easy and more straighforward solution.

> Sean Cole
> Pi Digital

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From klaus at major-k.de  Fri May 26 03:42:13 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2023 09:42:13 +0200
Subject: Android and USB footswitch
In-Reply-To: <7864C712-4A5B-4AC5-ACC3-2E5F5BE8CC93@m-r-d.de>
References: <B12CE181-3E47-4F1B-9AB1-E86191611237@major-k.de>
 <c2b44ed7-b447-4995-cf7a-02ea2eb6c6c1@sonic.net>
 <48138978-006A-4058-A5EA-751CA3E455F3@major-k.de>
 <7864C712-4A5B-4AC5-ACC3-2E5F5BE8CC93@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <714973A4-B23E-4CDA-B4AA-EC7DE45094FD@major-k.de>

Hi Matthias,

> Am 25.05.2023 um 22:32 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Klaus, 
> 
> this footswitch for example is detected as HID device. 
> https://www.scythe-eu.com/produkte/pc-zubehoer/usb-foot-switch-ii.html

yep, I will need something like this, thank you!

> The functions of the switch(es) have to be configured with the included software on a Windows PC first. After that the switch can be used on other devices without any additonal software. As most Android devices will support USB keyboards, this should work. 

I am counting on this fact! :-)

> If the Android device has a memory card slot you could store the PDFs on a memory card and let your LC app then access this storage card. To update the PDF files you eihter have  to connect your tablet with your PC or Mac as an external drive or you could remove the memory card from the tablet and use it in a cardreader on a PC or Mac.

I have a SD card in my old Samsung cell phone and tried exactly this, but did not work.
I checked "external storage" in the STAB, installed the test app and connected the phone to my Mac.
Then I copied an image into the appropriate "com.whatever...". (sub)folder on the SD but LC did not 
see the file in -> specialfolderpath("external documents")!?
Did I do it wrong?

> I have here an older table laying around which I could send to you. But i have to check its os version first.

That would be wonderful, Matthias. Please conact me privately.
LC needs at least Android 5.1.

Thanks a lot!

There is even a feature request/bug report for accessing more public Android folders:
<https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23526>

> Regards,
> Matthias

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Fri May 26 04:39:31 2023
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2023 11:39:31 +0300
Subject: Android and USB footswitch
In-Reply-To: <B12CE181-3E47-4F1B-9AB1-E86191611237@major-k.de>
References: <B12CE181-3E47-4F1B-9AB1-E86191611237@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <4eb71b59-4496-f7f7-f277-7d586586f37e@gmail.com>

https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Optical-Computer-Keyboard-Fortnite-Transcription/dp/B08QZ4H31C/ref=sr_1_4?crid=2WJV976H8HKK1&keywords=usb+foot+pedal&qid=1685090338&sprefix=USb+foot+pedal%2Caps%2C107&sr=8-4

On 25.05.23 18:22, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi friends,
>
> I'm still an active musician (bass guitar) and am currently playing in four bands.
>
> Nowadays bulky music stands on stage are OUT and tablets are IN!
> So I am considering to create a little app for myself to display PDF leadsheets
> (= lyrics and chord symbols) on an Andorid tablet, which I still have to buy. :-)
>
> There are some USB footswitches, and I would like to use one of them to browse
> through the (multipage) PDFs (next page, previous page).
>
> Anyone knows if these switches will act like an "external keyboard", means if they
> will just send any RAWKEY that I could catch in LC?
> Or will I need something created with LCB to do so?
>
> Thanks for any hint!
>
> P.S.
> Since PDFs are not accessible via "mobilepickmedia" are there ANY other ways to add
> some PDFs later without having to download them from some URL?
>
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From klaus at major-k.de  Fri May 26 04:57:18 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2023 10:57:18 +0200
Subject: Android and USB footswitch
In-Reply-To: <4eb71b59-4496-f7f7-f277-7d586586f37e@gmail.com>
References: <B12CE181-3E47-4F1B-9AB1-E86191611237@major-k.de>
 <4eb71b59-4496-f7f7-f277-7d586586f37e@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5D9CF0E7-4FF2-4586-9A2D-F86F0AED084F@major-k.de>

<https://media.istockphoto.com/id/1397892955/de/foto/dankeschön-nachricht-für-karte-präsentation-geschäft-dankbarkeit-anerkennung-und-wertschätzung.jpg?s=612x612&w=0&k=20&c=rRIsJfwYLGSL1jsgoSKpZ1VaZp9PvhkJUbtCCfUxibQ=>

> Am 26.05.2023 um 10:39 schrieb Richmond via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Optical-Computer-Keyboard-Fortnite-Transcription/dp/B08QZ4H31C/ref=sr_1_4?crid=2WJV976H8HKK1&keywords=usb+foot+pedal&qid=1685090338&sprefix=USb+foot+pedal%2Caps%2C107&sr=8-4
> 
> On 25.05.23 18:22, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hi friends,
>> 
>> I'm still an active musician (bass guitar) and am currently playing in four bands.
>> 
>> Nowadays bulky music stands on stage are OUT and tablets are IN!
>> So I am considering to create a little app for myself to display PDF leadsheets
>> (= lyrics and chord symbols) on an Andorid tablet, which I still have to buy. :-)
>> 
>> There are some USB footswitches, and I would like to use one of them to browse
>> through the (multipage) PDFs (next page, previous page).
>> 
>> Anyone knows if these switches will act like an "external keyboard", means if they
>> will just send any RAWKEY that I could catch in LC?
>> Or will I need something created with LCB to do so?
>> 
>> Thanks for any hint!
>> 
>> P.S.
>> Since PDFs are not accessible via "mobilepickmedia" are there ANY other ways to add
>> some PDFs later without having to download them from some URL?
>> 
>> 
>> Best
>> 
>> Klaus

:-)

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri May 26 11:32:43 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2023 15:32:43 +0000
Subject: The Backdrop's Purpose In Life
Message-ID: <SJ0PR02MB7533D49E33A7A061F57190A4B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>

HA! I just figured out what the purpose of the backdrop is! If you have multiple LC windows open and you tab to another app's window, then tab back to the LC window, ONLY that LC window will appear in the foreground. With Backdrop on, ALL the LC windows will become visible when you tab to any LC window.

All these years and I never knew that.

Bob S

From harrison at all-auctions.com  Fri May 26 12:26:55 2023
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2023 12:26:55 -0400
Subject: Android and USB footswitch
In-Reply-To: <BB7EAC76-B341-4546-A00F-2CDA76AC3277@major-k.de>
References: <22A14A13-AB6B-4163-A2F7-F884826DE407@major-k.de>
 <559C7AFE-B912-4E4F-A32B-2E257D7B44F8@pidigital.co.uk>
 <B4249729-D314-473E-9D25-98CCD9A7C4FC@all-auctions.com>
 <BB7EAC76-B341-4546-A00F-2CDA76AC3277@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <C719A9F1-6F92-4200-B5C2-E2B963F0470E@all-auctions.com>

Hi Klaus,

The mouse receiving device is a USB plug or dongle.
At the very worst you might have to find an adaptor.
It should work!

Rick

On May 26, 2023, at 3:23 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

Hi Rick,

Am 26.05.2023 um 03:32 schrieb harrison--- via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:

Hi Klaus,

A  quick and really dirty solution:

Find an old wireless or BlueTooth computer mouse that you really don’t like,
and use it as a foot switch.  That will be super easy for LiveCode to detect too!

thank you.

However I said I will need a USB device, since LC on Android (ANDROID!) does not 
support bluetooth/wireless.

Have fun!

Rick

On May 25, 2023, at 6:24 PM, Pi Digital via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
A usb footswitch will work like a mouse but with a different signature. 

Best

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de


_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri May 26 14:14:24 2023
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2023 11:14:24 -0700
Subject: The Backdrop's Purpose In Life
In-Reply-To: <SJ0PR02MB7533D49E33A7A061F57190A4B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533D49E33A7A061F57190A4B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <18413637-663f-4f3a-84a0-548d42c830d8@fourthworld.com>

Bob Sneidar wrote:

 > HA! I just figured out what the purpose of the backdrop is!
 > If you have multiple LC windows open and you tab to another
 > app's window, then tab back to the LC window, ONLY that LC
 > window will appear in the foreground. With Backdrop on, ALL
 > the LC windows will become visible when you tab to any LC
 > window.

The OS vendors help with that too:

Windows: Shift-click Taskbar icon -> "Bring All Windows Forward"

macOS:   Window menu -> Bring All to Front

-- 
Richard Gaskin
Fourth World Systems


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri May 26 14:20:52 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2023 18:20:52 +0000
Subject: The Backdrop's Purpose In Life
In-Reply-To: <18413637-663f-4f3a-84a0-548d42c830d8@fourthworld.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533D49E33A7A061F57190A4B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <18413637-663f-4f3a-84a0-548d42c830d8@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <SJ0PR02MB7533F5A841C14AB975996B79B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>

Huh. Windows not working for me. I'll try MacOS when I get my laptop up and running again. MacOS Update bricked the boot volume. Again. For the 3rd time. 

Bob S 

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> On Behalf Of Richard Gaskin via use-livecode
Sent: Friday, May 26, 2023 11:14 AM
To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Cc: Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
Subject: Re: The Backdrop's Purpose In Life

Bob Sneidar wrote:

 > HA! I just figured out what the purpose of the backdrop is!
 > If you have multiple LC windows open and you tab to another  > app's window, then tab back to the LC window, ONLY that LC  > window will appear in the foreground. With Backdrop on, ALL  > the LC windows will become visible when you tab to any LC  > window.

The OS vendors help with that too:

Windows: Shift-click Taskbar icon -> "Bring All Windows Forward"

macOS:   Window menu -> Bring All to Front

--
Richard Gaskin
Fourth World Systems

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri May 26 15:21:53 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2023 14:21:53 -0500
Subject: The Backdrop's Purpose In Life
In-Reply-To: <18413637-663f-4f3a-84a0-548d42c830d8@fourthworld.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533D49E33A7A061F57190A4B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <18413637-663f-4f3a-84a0-548d42c830d8@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <7ba419f3-2469-ad83-f27b-96474bdb5073@hyperactivesw.com>

On 5/26/23 1:14 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
> Bob Sneidar wrote:
> 
>  > HA! I just figured out what the purpose of the backdrop is!
>  > If you have multiple LC windows open and you tab to another
>  > app's window, then tab back to the LC window, ONLY that LC
>  > window will appear in the foreground. With Backdrop on, ALL
>  > the LC windows will become visible when you tab to any LC
>  > window.
> 
> The OS vendors help with that too:
> 
> Windows: Shift-click Taskbar icon -> "Bring All Windows Forward"
> 
> macOS:   Window menu -> Bring All to Front
> 

Clicking the icon in the Mac Dock also brings all windows forward.
-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From merakosp at gmail.com  Fri May 26 23:58:39 2023
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis m)
Date: Sat, 27 May 2023 06:58:39 +0300
Subject: The Backdrop's Purpose In Life
In-Reply-To: <7ba419f3-2469-ad83-f27b-96474bdb5073@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533D49E33A7A061F57190A4B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <18413637-663f-4f3a-84a0-548d42c830d8@fourthworld.com>
 <7ba419f3-2469-ad83-f27b-96474bdb5073@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq92=W=17cPZMJ9R9in0bnm6Mm+26H+r+YbFf6A6xBHxPg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all,

Note that the LC backdrop does not work on MacOS Ventura.

Cheers,
Panos

On Fri, 26 May 2023, 22:23 J. Landman Gay via use-livecode, <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On 5/26/23 1:14 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
> > Bob Sneidar wrote:
> >
> >  > HA! I just figured out what the purpose of the backdrop is!
> >  > If you have multiple LC windows open and you tab to another
> >  > app's window, then tab back to the LC window, ONLY that LC
> >  > window will appear in the foreground. With Backdrop on, ALL
> >  > the LC windows will become visible when you tab to any LC
> >  > window.
> >
> > The OS vendors help with that too:
> >
> > Windows: Shift-click Taskbar icon -> "Bring All Windows Forward"
> >
> > macOS:   Window menu -> Bring All to Front
> >
>
> Clicking the icon in the Mac Dock also brings all windows forward.
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat May 27 01:34:15 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 27 May 2023 00:34:15 -0500
Subject: The Backdrop's Purpose In Life
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq92=W=17cPZMJ9R9in0bnm6Mm+26H+r+YbFf6A6xBHxPg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533D49E33A7A061F57190A4B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <18413637-663f-4f3a-84a0-548d42c830d8@fourthworld.com>
 <7ba419f3-2469-ad83-f27b-96474bdb5073@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CA+JfEq92=W=17cPZMJ9R9in0bnm6Mm+26H+r+YbFf6A6xBHxPg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1885bb343d8.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

Will this be fixed?
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 26, 2023 11:01:09 PM panagiotis m via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> Note that the LC backdrop does not work on MacOS Ventura.
>
> Cheers,
> Panos





From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sat May 27 11:04:18 2023
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond)
Date: Sat, 27 May 2023 18:04:18 +0300
Subject: The Backdrop's Purpose In Life
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq92=W=17cPZMJ9R9in0bnm6Mm+26H+r+YbFf6A6xBHxPg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533D49E33A7A061F57190A4B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <18413637-663f-4f3a-84a0-548d42c830d8@fourthworld.com>
 <7ba419f3-2469-ad83-f27b-96474bdb5073@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CA+JfEq92=W=17cPZMJ9R9in0bnm6Mm+26H+r+YbFf6A6xBHxPg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <89d943b0-619b-d97e-3ad2-82dd00a54975@gmail.com>

Note that the LC backdrop with LC 9.6.3 community works just fine with 
MacOS Ventura.

Kisses, Richmond.

On 27.05.23 6:58, panagiotis m via use-livecode wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> Note that the LC backdrop does not work on MacOS Ventura.
>
> Cheers,
> Panos
>
> On Fri, 26 May 2023, 22:23 J. Landman Gay via use-livecode, <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> On 5/26/23 1:14 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Bob Sneidar wrote:
>>>
>>>   > HA! I just figured out what the purpose of the backdrop is!
>>>   > If you have multiple LC windows open and you tab to another
>>>   > app's window, then tab back to the LC window, ONLY that LC
>>>   > window will appear in the foreground. With Backdrop on, ALL
>>>   > the LC windows will become visible when you tab to any LC
>>>   > window.
>>>
>>> The OS vendors help with that too:
>>>
>>> Windows: Shift-click Taskbar icon -> "Bring All Windows Forward"
>>>
>>> macOS:   Window menu -> Bring All to Front
>>>
>> Clicking the icon in the Mac Dock also brings all windows forward.
>> --
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From skiplondon at gmail.com  Sat May 27 12:26:30 2023
From: skiplondon at gmail.com (Skip Kimpel)
Date: Sat, 27 May 2023 12:26:30 -0400
Subject: AR applications?
Message-ID: <FD751FD1-87F0-47B4-8C11-F1CF9C1DD6F5@gmail.com>

Has anybody done anything with LC and AR?

Curious minds want to know :)

SKIP


From harrison at all-auctions.com  Sat May 27 16:38:30 2023
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com)
Date: Sat, 27 May 2023 16:38:30 -0400
Subject: AR applications?
In-Reply-To: <FD751FD1-87F0-47B4-8C11-F1CF9C1DD6F5@gmail.com>
References: <FD751FD1-87F0-47B4-8C11-F1CF9C1DD6F5@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DD09652B-C289-4AA2-981F-20F10F4AFB74@all-auctions.com>

Hi Skip,

Doubtful.  I would wait until after we have a compilable version of LC and then it will be more possible.

Rick

> On May 27, 2023, at 12:26 PM, Skip Kimpel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Has anybody done anything with LC and AR?
> 
> Curious minds want to know :)
> 
> SKIP


From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Sat May 27 16:43:28 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Sat, 27 May 2023 16:43:28 -0400
Subject: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor
In-Reply-To: <SJ0PR02MB7533DD6A1D7C4C47E02C4060B2469@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
References: <EC712A5C-4123-4301-87D6-5EECCA4F8D79@gmail.com>
 <eaed4b26-788e-ccbc-b133-fb6a68a7d889@fourthworld.com>
 <C875D04B-F61A-47F2-8820-D369FED78726@gmail.com>
 <CADCoycOGY4DryEkhQYWoEm1w=UrZ3GYXg-jE19EdVKP1VLSySA@mail.gmail.com>
 <A9063093-3C5B-4D23-AF7A-B643CF1F2490@gmail.com>
 <SJ0PR02MB7533DD6A1D7C4C47E02C4060B2469@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycPgD1AJJ9hiD28AT0CR52eG4uh1YmZu7ZH8gSbGEH7k9g@mail.gmail.com>

i just tried, again, with the v.4 model.
it is now literally inventing documentation (which it presents,
formatted similarly to the way the dictionary appears), claims that it
can be found in the dictionary, and provides links to examples (which,
of course, are broken), and proceeds to insist that it is correct,
even after being told to load the pages in question.

On Thu, May 25, 2023 at 11:06 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> I create datagrids with some properties that help me with database queries. For instance one property is the name of the table I source for the data. So I came up with the idea of popping up a menu when I right click on a datagrid, where I can select a column from the table, and then wherever I click next, it will create a field and label in a group, all named after the column wherever I click next. The fields I produce also have a property for the column name, so when I populate a form, I provide an array of the datagrid data to the handler which iterates through all the fields looking for that property, and fills the fields with data from that array.
>
> So while creating forms is tedious, it can be made a good deal less tedious by doing some coding on the front end.
>
> Bob S
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Hi Mike,
>
> Not that I’m aware of. Apart from Richard’s utility, the only other way I’ve seen used is dragging items from the tools palette. Not a terrible process as no-code is involved in doing so (so you don’t have frustrations with syntax to deal with), but as Jacque points out, if you have a lot of this to do, it can get tedious.
>
> Mark
>
> > On 23 May 2023, at 8:31 pm, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > didn't the old db library (which is still included with LC, and still
> > gets built into every standalone, whether you choose to include it or
> > not) have the ability to build forms from db's?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."


From harrison at all-auctions.com  Sat May 27 16:54:17 2023
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com)
Date: Sat, 27 May 2023 16:54:17 -0400
Subject: Run LC on old Mac with Ventura!
In-Reply-To: <89d943b0-619b-d97e-3ad2-82dd00a54975@gmail.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533D49E33A7A061F57190A4B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <18413637-663f-4f3a-84a0-548d42c830d8@fourthworld.com>
 <7ba419f3-2469-ad83-f27b-96474bdb5073@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CA+JfEq92=W=17cPZMJ9R9in0bnm6Mm+26H+r+YbFf6A6xBHxPg@mail.gmail.com>
 <89d943b0-619b-d97e-3ad2-82dd00a54975@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <18230729-713C-4F53-9A32-E7D387B0556F@all-auctions.com>

Hi LC Mac users,

Last week I came across the following:

https://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/64141/opencore-legacy-patcher

I was very skeptical at first, so I took out my old 15 inch 2012 MacBook Pro
that I was thinking about recycling, and I tried it.  It works like a new machine
running Ventura!  It’s fast enough too! 

After I saw how good it works, all I could think of was how terrible 
it is that Apple has sidelined all of these old computers, that are 
perfectly capable.  

It behaves well with LC too!

Check it out and let me know what you think.  

Cheers,

Rick

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat May 27 17:45:55 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 27 May 2023 16:45:55 -0500
Subject: The Backdrop's Purpose In Life
In-Reply-To: <89d943b0-619b-d97e-3ad2-82dd00a54975@gmail.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533D49E33A7A061F57190A4B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <18413637-663f-4f3a-84a0-548d42c830d8@fourthworld.com>
 <7ba419f3-2469-ad83-f27b-96474bdb5073@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CA+JfEq92=W=17cPZMJ9R9in0bnm6Mm+26H+r+YbFf6A6xBHxPg@mail.gmail.com>
 <89d943b0-619b-d97e-3ad2-82dd00a54975@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1885f2cd650.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

Did you try Cmd-tab to cycle to another app and back? Does it also work if 
you bring another app to the front and then use the dock to return to LC? 
If so that would be good news.

I did find a backdrop glitch in a standalone on Monterey. Only one window 
showed where there should have been two.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 27, 2023 10:06:43 AM Richmond via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Note that the LC backdrop with LC 9.6.3 community works just fine with
> MacOS Ventura.
>
> Kisses, Richmond.
>
> On 27.05.23 6:58, panagiotis m via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hello all,
>>
>> Note that the LC backdrop does not work on MacOS Ventura.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Panos
>>
>> On Fri, 26 May 2023, 22:23 J. Landman Gay via use-livecode, <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/26/23 1:14 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> Bob Sneidar wrote:
>>>>
>>>>   > HA! I just figured out what the purpose of the backdrop is!
>>>>   > If you have multiple LC windows open and you tab to another
>>>>   > app's window, then tab back to the LC window, ONLY that LC
>>>>   > window will appear in the foreground. With Backdrop on, ALL
>>>>   > the LC windows will become visible when you tab to any LC
>>>>   > window.
>>>>
>>>> The OS vendors help with that too:
>>>>
>>>> Windows: Shift-click Taskbar icon -> "Bring All Windows Forward"
>>>>
>>>> macOS:   Window menu -> Bring All to Front
>>>>
>>> Clicking the icon in the Mac Dock also brings all windows forward.
>>> --
>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From curry at pair.com  Sun May 28 00:54:38 2023
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 00:54:38 -0400
Subject: WordReport 1.3 - Order Download Link fixed
Message-ID: <42b7349b-d801-d384-3813-6e6b797a5b8a@pair.com>


WordReport's after-order Download Link fixed in CurryK/SendOwl store.

(And an unrelated WordReport delivery issue fixed by LC in their store.)

Thanks Fernando Riccio and Heather!

Anyone previously affected, please use the Download on the page below.

More news soon....

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

WordReport: Professional pre-formatted reports
for MS Word and OpenOffice files in LiveCode!
http://livecodeaddons.com/wordreport.html

Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
"Passion for Elegant and Efficient Code"
http://livecodeconsulting.com/


From skiplondon at gmail.com  Sun May 28 10:54:13 2023
From: skiplondon at gmail.com (Skip Kimpel)
Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 10:54:13 -0400
Subject: AR applications?
In-Reply-To: <DD09652B-C289-4AA2-981F-20F10F4AFB74@all-auctions.com>
References: <DD09652B-C289-4AA2-981F-20F10F4AFB74@all-auctions.com>
Message-ID: <E82417D5-2F6A-410D-ADC9-7C7D7B9FD437@gmail.com>

Wait… what?  I have been away from this list for a while, LC is not currently compilable??

SKIP

> On May 27, 2023, at 4:39 PM, harrison--- via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Skip,
> 
> Doubtful.  I would wait until after we have a compilable version of LC and then it will be more possible.
> 
> Rick
> 
>> On May 27, 2023, at 12:26 PM, Skip Kimpel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Has anybody done anything with LC and AR?
>> 
>> Curious minds want to know :)
>> 
>> SKIP
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Sun May 28 20:18:16 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 20:18:16 -0400
Subject: android remote debugger
Message-ID: <CADCoycMvAkkp1zmBz1aT8aoTLpMCY31vowp5Y8OY7Yf8Vd2j6A@mail.gmail.com>

i'm back to futzing with android, again, now trying to get the remote
debugger to run.
it's included with the stack, but i can't seem to get it to fire, even
with the breakpoint command.

-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun May 28 23:45:59 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 22:45:59 -0500
Subject: android remote debugger
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycMvAkkp1zmBz1aT8aoTLpMCY31vowp5Y8OY7Yf8Vd2j6A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADCoycMvAkkp1zmBz1aT8aoTLpMCY31vowp5Y8OY7Yf8Vd2j6A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <188659cdcd8.2804.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

That's happened to me twice over the years and nothing I could do fixed it 
until a new LC version was released, where suddenly it started working 
again. I don't think it's LC, it is something in the OS. I tried fiddling 
with system prefs permissions but it didn't help. The two instances were 
years apart and I still don't know why.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 28, 2023 7:21:05 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> i'm back to futzing with android, again, now trying to get the remote
> debugger to run.
> it's included with the stack, but i can't seem to get it to fire, even
> with the breakpoint command.
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>   and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Mon May 29 06:26:19 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 11:26:19 +0100
Subject: LC compilation
In-Reply-To: <E82417D5-2F6A-410D-ADC9-7C7D7B9FD437@gmail.com>
References: <DD09652B-C289-4AA2-981F-20F10F4AFB74@all-auctions.com>
 <E82417D5-2F6A-410D-ADC9-7C7D7B9FD437@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DAB41BF0-0E01-42DD-A358-A9317E0340C2@gmail.com>

Hi Skip,

I’m surprised no one has taken a stab at answering this. I'm certainly no expert on the internal workings of LC or compilers but I can take a stab at articulating what I think the answer is, and when I get it wrong someone else can jump in to correct me (I should probably know this stuff better anyway).

So if I am correct, the current environment converts LC script into some sort of (possibly binary) tree structure that is better organised to be executed by the LC engine. The engine is a big chunk of what I think is mostly Obj C (or some relative thereof) code that interprets the tree structures created in the first phase. So I guess that makes it sort of compiled? Compiled to execute in/on the LC engine, but also interpreted because the tree code is not executed on the target platform directly but is interpreted by the engine to generate the final executable result. 

As far as the script compiler project is concerned, I believe the goal is to create a byte code stream that can be interpreted more efficiently by (a possibly new?) engine. Not sure about the new engine part, but the idea is the tree structure thing goes away and in its place is a linear stream of byte codes that can both be executed more effiencetly but also optimised more fully. This particular byte stream (and here I’m going way outside my wheelhouse) is similar to what other compilers like Java, Python, (Pascal? — which I do know was a byte code compiled run time interpreted language… although companies like Borland eventually wrote Pascal compilers that executed directly on the target platform without any interpretation) produce. So, it would bring the LC compiled code more in line with what other compilers are producing which means post compilation the code could be optimised more completely using well developed industry standard approaches. And so everything ends up a little smaller and faster but it also opens the door to doing other things with the script code down the road. 

Well, that's my take on Mark Waddinghams’ most recent seminar on this topic. But he assuredly can fill you in much better than I can.

Cheers,
Mark



> On 28 May 2023, at 3:54 pm, Skip Kimpel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Wait… what?  I have been away from this list for a while, LC is not currently compilable??
> 
> SKIP
> 
>> On May 27, 2023, at 4:39 PM, harrison--- via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Skip,
>> 
>> Doubtful.  I would wait until after we have a compilable version of LC and then it will be more possible.
>> 
>> Rick
>> 
>>> On May 27, 2023, at 12:26 PM, Skip Kimpel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Has anybody done anything with LC and AR?
>>> 
>>> Curious minds want to know :)
>>> 
>>> SKIP
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From harrison at all-auctions.com  Mon May 29 09:28:04 2023
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 09:28:04 -0400
Subject: OpenCore Legacy Patcher for LC
In-Reply-To: <18230729-713C-4F53-9A32-E7D387B0556F@all-auctions.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533D49E33A7A061F57190A4B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <18413637-663f-4f3a-84a0-548d42c830d8@fourthworld.com>
 <7ba419f3-2469-ad83-f27b-96474bdb5073@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CA+JfEq92=W=17cPZMJ9R9in0bnm6Mm+26H+r+YbFf6A6xBHxPg@mail.gmail.com>
 <89d943b0-619b-d97e-3ad2-82dd00a54975@gmail.com>
 <18230729-713C-4F53-9A32-E7D387B0556F@all-auctions.com>
Message-ID: <BE35F18E-D23F-4E14-AEF9-20ED7755A412@all-auctions.com>

Is there anyone on this list that has tried
OpenCore Legacy Patcher to run LiveCode
on their old mac?

Let me know.

Thanks,

Rick

> On May 27, 2023, at 4:54 PM, harrison--- via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi LC Mac users,
> 
> Last week I came across the following:
> 
> https://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/64141/opencore-legacy-patcher
> 
> I was very skeptical at first, so I took out my old 15 inch 2012 MacBook Pro
> that I was thinking about recycling, and I tried it.  It works like a new machine
> running Ventura!  It’s fast enough too! 
> 
> After I saw how good it works, all I could think of was how terrible 
> it is that Apple has sidelined all of these old computers, that are 
> perfectly capable.  
> 
> It behaves well with LC too!
> 
> Check it out and let me know what you think.  
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Rick
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon May 29 11:17:43 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 10:17:43 -0500
Subject: OpenCore Legacy Patcher for LC
In-Reply-To: <BE35F18E-D23F-4E14-AEF9-20ED7755A412@all-auctions.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533D49E33A7A061F57190A4B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <18413637-663f-4f3a-84a0-548d42c830d8@fourthworld.com>
 <7ba419f3-2469-ad83-f27b-96474bdb5073@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CA+JfEq92=W=17cPZMJ9R9in0bnm6Mm+26H+r+YbFf6A6xBHxPg@mail.gmail.com>
 <89d943b0-619b-d97e-3ad2-82dd00a54975@gmail.com>
 <18230729-713C-4F53-9A32-E7D387B0556F@all-auctions.com>
 <BE35F18E-D23F-4E14-AEF9-20ED7755A412@all-auctions.com>
Message-ID: <188681629d8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

It's on my to-do list but I haven't got to it yet. Is there a problem with LC?

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 29, 2023 8:30:00 AM harrison--- via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Is there anyone on this list that has tried
> OpenCore Legacy Patcher to run LiveCode
> on their old mac?
>
> Let me know.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Rick
>
>> On May 27, 2023, at 4:54 PM, harrison--- via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi LC Mac users,
>>
>> Last week I came across the following:
>>
>> https://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/64141/opencore-legacy-patcher
>>
>> I was very skeptical at first, so I took out my old 15 inch 2012 MacBook Pro
>> that I was thinking about recycling, and I tried it.  It works like a new 
>> machine
>> running Ventura!  Its fast enough too!
>>
>> After I saw how good it works, all I could think of was how terrible
>> it is that Apple has sidelined all of these old computers, that are
>> perfectly capable.
>>
>> It behaves well with LC too!
>>
>> Check it out and let me know what you think.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Rick
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Mon May 29 12:56:19 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 12:56:19 -0400
Subject: LC compilation
In-Reply-To: <DAB41BF0-0E01-42DD-A358-A9317E0340C2@gmail.com>
References: <DD09652B-C289-4AA2-981F-20F10F4AFB74@all-auctions.com>
 <E82417D5-2F6A-410D-ADC9-7C7D7B9FD437@gmail.com>
 <DAB41BF0-0E01-42DD-A358-A9317E0340C2@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycMLqGLytgu_Eciu6U_tQHmYpmYiLvNbZxORrT6DJsHcfw@mail.gmail.com>

I don't see the original post, so I can only part-comment on this.
LC doesn't compile, per se. It builds standalone apps for all
platforms, but those apps include the LC engine, extensions,
libraries, and your stack(s). There is an obfuscator, but, no, no
bytecode or ML, yet. The apps behave as you would expect a standalone
app to behave, but, with a disassembler, you will have an easier time
with them than you would with a ML or BC compiled app.
The good news is that the current architecture makes remote debugging
from mobes much simpler, and, whether you are on a desktop or mobile
platform, you can include functionality such as side-loading and
real-time code execution trivially.
For example, let's say you have a debug build. If you include a button
in your debug build, with the following script, you can prompt for a
command, and execute it, live, in your standalone:

on mouseUp
   global gDo
   ask "Do what?" with gDo
   if it is not empty then
      put it into gDo
      do gDo
   end if
end mouseUp

The above script will also, as I am sure you deduced, store the last
command you typed, and prompt you with it, the next time you press the
button.
This is, of course, especially useful if you want to invoke the
debugger and then debug some routine. You can do that like by clicking
the button I just described, and then typing into the dialog:
breakpoint;send "mouseUp" to button "someButton" # steps you through
the debug button script, then to the mouseUp handler of "someButton"

We are all patiently waiting for the script compiler, which, as of
last conversation with Mark W., is going to be a bytecode compiler,
not a ML compiler.

On Mon, May 29, 2023 at 6:27 AM Mark Smith via use-livecode
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Skip,
>
> I’m surprised no one has taken a stab at answering this. I'm certainly no expert on the internal workings of LC or compilers but I can take a stab at articulating what I think the answer is, and when I get it wrong someone else can jump in to correct me (I should probably know this stuff better anyway).
>
> So if I am correct, the current environment converts LC script into some sort of (possibly binary) tree structure that is better organised to be executed by the LC engine. The engine is a big chunk of what I think is mostly Obj C (or some relative thereof) code that interprets the tree structures created in the first phase. So I guess that makes it sort of compiled? Compiled to execute in/on the LC engine, but also interpreted because the tree code is not executed on the target platform directly but is interpreted by the engine to generate the final executable result.
>
> As far as the script compiler project is concerned, I believe the goal is to create a byte code stream that can be interpreted more efficiently by (a possibly new?) engine. Not sure about the new engine part, but the idea is the tree structure thing goes away and in its place is a linear stream of byte codes that can both be executed more effiencetly but also optimised more fully. This particular byte stream (and here I’m going way outside my wheelhouse) is similar to what other compilers like Java, Python, (Pascal? — which I do know was a byte code compiled run time interpreted language… although companies like Borland eventually wrote Pascal compilers that executed directly on the target platform without any interpretation) produce. So, it would bring the LC compiled code more in line with what other compilers are producing which means post compilation the code could be optimised more completely using well developed industry standard approaches. And so everything ends up a little smaller and faster but it also opens the door to doing other things with the script code down the road.
>
> Well, that's my take on Mark Waddinghams’ most recent seminar on this topic. But he assuredly can fill you in much better than I can.
>
> Cheers,
> Mark
>
>
>
> > On 28 May 2023, at 3:54 pm, Skip Kimpel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Wait… what?  I have been away from this list for a while, LC is not currently compilable??
> >
> > SKIP
> >
> >> On May 27, 2023, at 4:39 PM, harrison--- via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Skip,
> >>
> >> Doubtful.  I would wait until after we have a compilable version of LC and then it will be more possible.
> >>
> >> Rick
> >>
> >>> On May 27, 2023, at 12:26 PM, Skip Kimpel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Has anybody done anything with LC and AR?
> >>>
> >>> Curious minds want to know :)
> >>>
> >>> SKIP
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."


From dochawk at gmail.com  Mon May 29 13:11:00 2023
From: dochawk at gmail.com (doc hawk)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 10:11:00 -0700
Subject: Run LC on old Mac with Ventura!
In-Reply-To: <18230729-713C-4F53-9A32-E7D387B0556F@all-auctions.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533D49E33A7A061F57190A4B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <18413637-663f-4f3a-84a0-548d42c830d8@fourthworld.com>
 <7ba419f3-2469-ad83-f27b-96474bdb5073@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CA+JfEq92=W=17cPZMJ9R9in0bnm6Mm+26H+r+YbFf6A6xBHxPg@mail.gmail.com>
 <89d943b0-619b-d97e-3ad2-82dd00a54975@gmail.com>
 <18230729-713C-4F53-9A32-E7D387B0556F@all-auctions.com>
Message-ID: <799CF823-AA84-4E23-9499-55D4522DD36C@gmail.com>

If memory serves, the problem with older machines was not running the metal graphical system, as they lacked the hardware.

There were some near-contemporaneous patches that allowed at least the first post-mohave osx to run, put were reported as glacially and painfully slow as metal got emulated on older hardware.

This says that the patch allows supporter non-metal graphical cards, though—I’m curious how that would work on apple stuff that calls to metal.

But, alas, the 2012 iMac isn’t the list, so I guess I’m out of luck anyway.



From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Mon May 29 19:25:21 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 00:25:21 +0100
Subject: LC compilation
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycMLqGLytgu_Eciu6U_tQHmYpmYiLvNbZxORrT6DJsHcfw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <DD09652B-C289-4AA2-981F-20F10F4AFB74@all-auctions.com>
 <E82417D5-2F6A-410D-ADC9-7C7D7B9FD437@gmail.com>
 <DAB41BF0-0E01-42DD-A358-A9317E0340C2@gmail.com>
 <CADCoycMLqGLytgu_Eciu6U_tQHmYpmYiLvNbZxORrT6DJsHcfw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3A325FB2-71B9-4EC7-8BB5-C04F11BFBB8D@gmail.com>

Hi Mike, sorry I thought it would have been copied with the reply. The original post from Skip Kimpel was more or less asking if LC is compiled. The exact post was…

	"Wait… what?  I have been away from this list for a while, LC is not currently compilable??

	SKIP”

I do have a question based on your reply. You indicate LC doesn’t compile but then go on to list all of the stuff it compiles into a standalone application (most of which, such as the LC engine, extensions, libraries, etc) are just (I would argue) libraries when it builds an application. Taking the definition of compiler as “a process to convert (a program) into a machine-code <https://www.google.co.uk/search?client=safari&channel=mac_bm&q=machine-code&si=AMnBZoFOMBUphduq9VwZxsuReC7YV6BL3UJP9cGsG2J_mNMPwgWXqX8HuVPC8gyFB81-plMkPkEzmbteRge93xxj5qVwJdYjXSPc2zeY_vz8RKYr_9tAP6Q%3D&expnd=1> or a lower-level <https://www.google.co.uk/search?client=safari&channel=mac_bm&q=lower-level&si=AMnBZoG9fGMZkoPgk-g4eVoaZFdERA6BgFgTvewAwu3qykvLOcqyjsbvyNVL0k7ItNaeg3uetPXhm4wenDJM9iNdxIwXbgNT_MfjGFunU2ur_NpUowaHa-E%3D&expnd=1> form in which the program can be executed.” I would argue it “sort of” does that in that the included scripts (as I understand it) are not in their original editable form but have been converted into something that is more easily interpreted by the engine. I know it’s not ML, nor is it bytecode, but it’s one step removed from the actually editable text in the script editor. Would’t you agree?

The true advantage of the byte code, I believe, is that it brings LC in line with other similar compilers and therefore allows a more sophisticated (and standardised) approach to code optimisation. Or at least that will be one of the advantages. Obfuscation of code, as you mention, is another (although I have never personally worried about anyone wanting to steal my code 😊). 

Mark


> On 29 May 2023, at 5:56 pm, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I don't see the original post, so I can only part-comment on this.
> LC doesn't compile, per se. It builds standalone apps for all
> platforms, but those apps include the LC engine, extensions,
> libraries, and your stack(s). There is an obfuscator, but, no, no
> bytecode or ML, yet. The apps behave as you would expect a standalone
> app to behave, but, with a disassembler, you will have an easier time
> with them than you would with a ML or BC compiled app.
> The good news is that the current architecture makes remote debugging
> from mobes much simpler, and, whether you are on a desktop or mobile
> platform, you can include functionality such as side-loading and
> real-time code execution trivially.
> For example, let's say you have a debug build. If you include a button
> in your debug build, with the following script, you can prompt for a
> command, and execute it, live, in your standalone:
> 
> on mouseUp
>   global gDo
>   ask "Do what?" with gDo
>   if it is not empty then
>      put it into gDo
>      do gDo
>   end if
> end mouseUp
> 
> The above script will also, as I am sure you deduced, store the last
> command you typed, and prompt you with it, the next time you press the
> button.
> This is, of course, especially useful if you want to invoke the
> debugger and then debug some routine. You can do that like by clicking
> the button I just described, and then typing into the dialog:
> breakpoint;send "mouseUp" to button "someButton" # steps you through
> the debug button script, then to the mouseUp handler of "someButton"
> 
> We are all patiently waiting for the script compiler, which, as of
> last conversation with Mark W., is going to be a bytecode compiler,
> not a ML compiler.
> 
> On Mon, May 29, 2023 at 6:27 AM Mark Smith via use-livecode
> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Skip,
>> 
>> I’m surprised no one has taken a stab at answering this. I'm certainly no expert on the internal workings of LC or compilers but I can take a stab at articulating what I think the answer is, and when I get it wrong someone else can jump in to correct me (I should probably know this stuff better anyway).
>> 
>> So if I am correct, the current environment converts LC script into some sort of (possibly binary) tree structure that is better organised to be executed by the LC engine. The engine is a big chunk of what I think is mostly Obj C (or some relative thereof) code that interprets the tree structures created in the first phase. So I guess that makes it sort of compiled? Compiled to execute in/on the LC engine, but also interpreted because the tree code is not executed on the target platform directly but is interpreted by the engine to generate the final executable result.
>> 
>> As far as the script compiler project is concerned, I believe the goal is to create a byte code stream that can be interpreted more efficiently by (a possibly new?) engine. Not sure about the new engine part, but the idea is the tree structure thing goes away and in its place is a linear stream of byte codes that can both be executed more effiencetly but also optimised more fully. This particular byte stream (and here I’m going way outside my wheelhouse) is similar to what other compilers like Java, Python, (Pascal? — which I do know was a byte code compiled run time interpreted language… although companies like Borland eventually wrote Pascal compilers that executed directly on the target platform without any interpretation) produce. So, it would bring the LC compiled code more in line with what other compilers are producing which means post compilation the code could be optimised more completely using well developed industry standard approaches. And so everything ends up a little smaller and faster but it also opens the door to doing other things with the script code down the road.
>> 
>> Well, that's my take on Mark Waddinghams’ most recent seminar on this topic. But he assuredly can fill you in much better than I can.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Mark
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 28 May 2023, at 3:54 pm, Skip Kimpel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Wait… what?  I have been away from this list for a while, LC is not currently compilable??
>>> 
>>> SKIP
>>> 
>>>> On May 27, 2023, at 4:39 PM, harrison--- via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Skip,
>>>> 
>>>> Doubtful.  I would wait until after we have a compilable version of LC and then it will be more possible.
>>>> 
>>>> Rick
>>>> 
>>>>> On May 27, 2023, at 12:26 PM, Skip Kimpel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Has anybody done anything with LC and AR?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Curious minds want to know :)
>>>>> 
>>>>> SKIP
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>   and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From harrison at all-auctions.com  Mon May 29 19:49:51 2023
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 19:49:51 -0400
Subject: OpenCore Legacy Patcher for LC
In-Reply-To: <188681629d8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533D49E33A7A061F57190A4B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <18413637-663f-4f3a-84a0-548d42c830d8@fourthworld.com>
 <7ba419f3-2469-ad83-f27b-96474bdb5073@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CA+JfEq92=W=17cPZMJ9R9in0bnm6Mm+26H+r+YbFf6A6xBHxPg@mail.gmail.com>
 <89d943b0-619b-d97e-3ad2-82dd00a54975@gmail.com>
 <18230729-713C-4F53-9A32-E7D387B0556F@all-auctions.com>
 <BE35F18E-D23F-4E14-AEF9-20ED7755A412@all-auctions.com>
 <188681629d8.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <562381EB-47AC-437C-B04D-8C6C13EC9C59@all-auctions.com>

No problems with LC that I have found so far.

> On May 29, 2023, at 11:17 AM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> It's on my to-do list but I haven't got to it yet. Is there a problem with LC?


From selander at tkf.att.ne.jp  Mon May 29 20:32:58 2023
From: selander at tkf.att.ne.jp (Tim Selander)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 09:32:58 +0900
Subject: LC Server and forcing page refreshes
Message-ID: <5fe3bd1d-45b8-16ed-b820-1b0640a401b0@tkf.att.ne.jp>

Once again find myself over my head in just a simple programming project.

I made a little club members directory website, using LC server on 
on-rev's hosting site.

Members can edit their info. I use a form, with the action going to an 
LC script. This script gets all the post data, shuffles it off to the 
database, and then goes back to the member's page using a re-direct:

  <meta http-equiv = "refresh" content = "2; url = <?lc put vlink?>" />

where vlink has the member's URL.

My Problem: If folk update their photos, their browser cache still shows 
the old picture -- logically leading them to think the update failed.

The photos are simply stored on the server, the database only stores the 
path of the file. The photo file shown on the member's page with an 
image tag.

Can any of the gurus here tell me how to get the page to ignore the 
cache so the browser shows the new photo?

Many thanks.

Tim Selander
Tokyo, Japan



From harrison at all-auctions.com  Mon May 29 22:42:15 2023
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 22:42:15 -0400
Subject: OpenCore Legacy Patcher Supports 2012 iMac!
In-Reply-To: <799CF823-AA84-4E23-9499-55D4522DD36C@gmail.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533D49E33A7A061F57190A4B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <18413637-663f-4f3a-84a0-548d42c830d8@fourthworld.com>
 <7ba419f3-2469-ad83-f27b-96474bdb5073@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CA+JfEq92=W=17cPZMJ9R9in0bnm6Mm+26H+r+YbFf6A6xBHxPg@mail.gmail.com>
 <89d943b0-619b-d97e-3ad2-82dd00a54975@gmail.com>
 <18230729-713C-4F53-9A32-E7D387B0556F@all-auctions.com>
 <799CF823-AA84-4E23-9499-55D4522DD36C@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2E6FBA11-8D4E-4324-832A-E548204929C7@all-auctions.com>

https://dortania.github.io/OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher/MODELS.html#imac

You are very lucky!  You must have looked at an old post.

Have fun!

Rick

> On May 29, 2023, at 1:11 PM, doc hawk via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> If memory serves, the problem with older machines was not running the metal graphical system, as they lacked the hardware.
> 
> There were some near-contemporaneous patches that allowed at least the first post-mohave osx to run, put were reported as glacially and painfully slow as metal got emulated on older hardware.
> 
> This says that the patch allows supporter non-metal graphical cards, though—I’m curious how that would work on apple stuff that calls to metal.
> 
> But, alas, the 2012 iMac isn’t the list, so I guess I’m out of luck anyway.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From hlowe at me.com  Mon May 29 22:59:34 2023
From: hlowe at me.com (HENRY LOWE)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 19:59:34 -0700
Subject: OpenCore Legacy Patcher Supports 2012 iMac!
In-Reply-To: <2E6FBA11-8D4E-4324-832A-E548204929C7@all-auctions.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533D49E33A7A061F57190A4B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <18413637-663f-4f3a-84a0-548d42c830d8@fourthworld.com>
 <7ba419f3-2469-ad83-f27b-96474bdb5073@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CA+JfEq92=W=17cPZMJ9R9in0bnm6Mm+26H+r+YbFf6A6xBHxPg@mail.gmail.com>
 <89d943b0-619b-d97e-3ad2-82dd00a54975@gmail.com>
 <18230729-713C-4F53-9A32-E7D387B0556F@all-auctions.com>
 <799CF823-AA84-4E23-9499-55D4522DD36C@gmail.com>
 <2E6FBA11-8D4E-4324-832A-E548204929C7@all-auctions.com>
Message-ID: <DFBE31D9-ECDE-4D3A-871D-F355130104DC@me.com>

Mac OS Ventura runs just fine on my 2012 iMac courtesy of OpenCore Legacy Patcher. I don’t run LC on this machine - use a 2019 iMac for that.

Henry 

> On May 29, 2023, at 7:42 PM, harrison--- via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> https://dortania.github.io/OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher/MODELS.html#imac
> 
> You are very lucky!  You must have looked at an old post.
> 
> Have fun!
> 
> Rick
> 
>> On May 29, 2023, at 1:11 PM, doc hawk via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> If memory serves, the problem with older machines was not running the metal graphical system, as they lacked the hardware.
>> 
>> There were some near-contemporaneous patches that allowed at least the first post-mohave osx to run, put were reported as glacially and painfully slow as metal got emulated on older hardware.
>> 
>> This says that the patch allows supporter non-metal graphical cards, though—I’m curious how that would work on apple stuff that calls to metal.
>> 
>> But, alas, the 2012 iMac isn’t the list, so I guess I’m out of luck anyway.
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From harrison at all-auctions.com  Mon May 29 23:11:31 2023
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 23:11:31 -0400
Subject: OpenCore Legacy Patcher Supports 2012 iMac!
In-Reply-To: <DFBE31D9-ECDE-4D3A-871D-F355130104DC@me.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533D49E33A7A061F57190A4B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <18413637-663f-4f3a-84a0-548d42c830d8@fourthworld.com>
 <7ba419f3-2469-ad83-f27b-96474bdb5073@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CA+JfEq92=W=17cPZMJ9R9in0bnm6Mm+26H+r+YbFf6A6xBHxPg@mail.gmail.com>
 <89d943b0-619b-d97e-3ad2-82dd00a54975@gmail.com>
 <18230729-713C-4F53-9A32-E7D387B0556F@all-auctions.com>
 <799CF823-AA84-4E23-9499-55D4522DD36C@gmail.com>
 <2E6FBA11-8D4E-4324-832A-E548204929C7@all-auctions.com>
 <DFBE31D9-ECDE-4D3A-871D-F355130104DC@me.com>
Message-ID: <AA0D1966-67AE-4C15-B388-795EEF1A4B50@all-auctions.com>

Thanks Henry, for confirming that Ventura runs on your 2012 iMac with OpenCore Legacy Patcher.

Rick

> On May 29, 2023, at 10:59 PM, HENRY LOWE via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Mac OS Ventura runs just fine on my 2012 iMac courtesy of OpenCore Legacy Patcher. I don’t run LC on this machine - use a 2019 iMac for that.
> 
> Henry 


From rabit at revigniter.com  Tue May 30 04:09:04 2023
From: rabit at revigniter.com (Ralf Bitter)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 10:09:04 +0200
Subject: LC Server and forcing page refreshes
In-Reply-To: <5fe3bd1d-45b8-16ed-b820-1b0640a401b0@tkf.att.ne.jp>
References: <5fe3bd1d-45b8-16ed-b820-1b0640a401b0@tkf.att.ne.jp>
Message-ID: <23c26f30-9c7a-d7f4-f99e-4b51aa58280b@revigniter.com>

Hi Tim,

how about adding a query string in the form of a timestamp to the 
members URL like:

?foo=1685433742125


Ralf


On 30.05.2023 02:32, Tim Selander via use-livecode wrote:
> Once again find myself over my head in just a simple programming project.
> 
> I made a little club members directory website, using LC server on 
> on-rev's hosting site.
> 
> Members can edit their info. I use a form, with the action going to an 
> LC script. This script gets all the post data, shuffles it off to the 
> database, and then goes back to the member's page using a re-direct:
> 
>   <meta http-equiv = "refresh" content = "2; url = <?lc put vlink?>" />
> 
> where vlink has the member's URL.
> 
> My Problem: If folk update their photos, their browser cache still shows 
> the old picture -- logically leading them to think the update failed.
> 
> The photos are simply stored on the server, the database only stores the 
> path of the file. The photo file shown on the member's page with an 
> image tag.
> 
> Can any of the gurus here tell me how to get the page to ignore the 
> cache so the browser shows the new photo?
> 
> Many thanks.
> 
> Tim Selander
> Tokyo, Japan




From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Tue May 30 04:31:22 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 10:31:22 +0200
Subject: LC Server and forcing page refreshes
In-Reply-To: <5fe3bd1d-45b8-16ed-b820-1b0640a401b0@tkf.att.ne.jp>
References: <5fe3bd1d-45b8-16ed-b820-1b0640a401b0@tkf.att.ne.jp>
Message-ID: <8918C785-19CF-41C7-A7FA-018E1C2D38ED@m-r-d.de>

Couldn't you disable the caching with meta html tags? See here for a explanation

https://cristian.sulea.net/blog/disable-browser-caching-with-meta-html-tags/



Regards,
Matthias


> Am 30.05.2023 um 02:32 schrieb Tim Selander via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Once again find myself over my head in just a simple programming project.
> 
> I made a little club members directory website, using LC server on on-rev's hosting site.
> 
> Members can edit their info. I use a form, with the action going to an LC script. This script gets all the post data, shuffles it off to the database, and then goes back to the member's page using a re-direct:
> 
> <meta http-equiv = "refresh" content = "2; url = <?lc put vlink?>" />
> 
> where vlink has the member's URL.
> 
> My Problem: If folk update their photos, their browser cache still shows the old picture -- logically leading them to think the update failed.
> 
> The photos are simply stored on the server, the database only stores the path of the file. The photo file shown on the member's page with an image tag.
> 
> Can any of the gurus here tell me how to get the page to ignore the cache so the browser shows the new photo?
> 
> Many thanks.
> 
> Tim Selander
> Tokyo, Japan
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Tue May 30 11:21:54 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 15:21:54 +0000
Subject: The Backdrop's Purpose In Life
In-Reply-To: <1885f2cd650.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533D49E33A7A061F57190A4B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <18413637-663f-4f3a-84a0-548d42c830d8@fourthworld.com>
 <7ba419f3-2469-ad83-f27b-96474bdb5073@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CA+JfEq92=W=17cPZMJ9R9in0bnm6Mm+26H+r+YbFf6A6xBHxPg@mail.gmail.com>
 <89d943b0-619b-d97e-3ad2-82dd00a54975@gmail.com>
 <1885f2cd650.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <SJ0PR02MB75337589569F2E1A111C2059B24B9@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>

By way of reminder I am having the issue with Windows 10, as my Ventura laptop is still down. (Apparently Apple has not fixed the boot failure problem when doing a minor system update.) 

Apparently Windows treats every open window as it's own application instance. Alt-Tabbing to an LC window only brings that one window to the front. No pallets or toolbars come with it. But enabling the backdrop fixes that. 

Bob Sneidar

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> On Behalf Of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2023 2:46 PM
To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Cc: J. Landman Gay <jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
Subject: Re: The Backdrop's Purpose In Life

Did you try Cmd-tab to cycle to another app and back? Does it also work if you bring another app to the front and then use the dock to return to LC? 
If so that would be good news.

I did find a backdrop glitch in a standalone on Monterey. Only one window showed where there should have been two.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On May 27, 2023 10:06:43 AM Richmond via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Note that the LC backdrop with LC 9.6.3 community works just fine with 
> MacOS Ventura.
>
> Kisses, Richmond.
>
> On 27.05.23 6:58, panagiotis m via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hello all,
>>
>> Note that the LC backdrop does not work on MacOS Ventura.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Panos
>>
>> On Fri, 26 May 2023, 22:23 J. Landman Gay via use-livecode, < 
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/26/23 1:14 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> Bob Sneidar wrote:
>>>>
>>>>   > HA! I just figured out what the purpose of the backdrop is!
>>>>   > If you have multiple LC windows open and you tab to another
>>>>   > app's window, then tab back to the LC window, ONLY that LC
>>>>   > window will appear in the foreground. With Backdrop on, ALL
>>>>   > the LC windows will become visible when you tab to any LC
>>>>   > window.
>>>>
>>>> The OS vendors help with that too:
>>>>
>>>> Windows: Shift-click Taskbar icon -> "Bring All Windows Forward"
>>>>
>>>> macOS:   Window menu -> Bring All to Front
>>>>
>>> Clicking the icon in the Mac Dock also brings all windows forward.
>>> --
>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From merakosp at gmail.com  Tue May 30 12:11:14 2023
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis m)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 19:11:14 +0300
Subject: The Backdrop's Purpose In Life
In-Reply-To: <SJ0PR02MB75337589569F2E1A111C2059B24B9@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SJ0PR02MB7533D49E33A7A061F57190A4B2479@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <18413637-663f-4f3a-84a0-548d42c830d8@fourthworld.com>
 <7ba419f3-2469-ad83-f27b-96474bdb5073@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CA+JfEq92=W=17cPZMJ9R9in0bnm6Mm+26H+r+YbFf6A6xBHxPg@mail.gmail.com>
 <89d943b0-619b-d97e-3ad2-82dd00a54975@gmail.com>
 <1885f2cd650.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <SJ0PR02MB75337589569F2E1A111C2059B24B9@SJ0PR02MB7533.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq-Ruyk3w=1bLjz2bvoRGN-AhWcTZhVrW3bQGhCQWZv2hA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all,

@Bob
You might want to have a look at the "raiseWindows" global property.

Cheers,
Panos
--

On Tue, 30 May 2023 at 18:23, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> By way of reminder I am having the issue with Windows 10, as my Ventura
> laptop is still down. (Apparently Apple has not fixed the boot failure
> problem when doing a minor system update.)
>
> Apparently Windows treats every open window as it's own application
> instance. Alt-Tabbing to an LC window only brings that one window to the
> front. No pallets or toolbars come with it. But enabling the backdrop fixes
> that.
>
> Bob Sneidar
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> On Behalf Of
> J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
> Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2023 2:46 PM
> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Cc: J. Landman Gay <jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
> Subject: Re: The Backdrop's Purpose In Life
>
> Did you try Cmd-tab to cycle to another app and back? Does it also work if
> you bring another app to the front and then use the dock to return to LC?
> If so that would be good news.
>
> I did find a backdrop glitch in a standalone on Monterey. Only one window
> showed where there should have been two.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software |
> http://www.hyperactivesw.com On May 27, 2023 10:06:43 AM Richmond via
> use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > Note that the LC backdrop with LC 9.6.3 community works just fine with
> > MacOS Ventura.
> >
> > Kisses, Richmond.
> >
> > On 27.05.23 6:58, panagiotis m via use-livecode wrote:
> >> Hello all,
> >>
> >> Note that the LC backdrop does not work on MacOS Ventura.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Panos
> >>
> >> On Fri, 26 May 2023, 22:23 J. Landman Gay via use-livecode, <
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 5/26/23 1:14 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
> >>>> Bob Sneidar wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>   > HA! I just figured out what the purpose of the backdrop is!
> >>>>   > If you have multiple LC windows open and you tab to another
> >>>>   > app's window, then tab back to the LC window, ONLY that LC
> >>>>   > window will appear in the foreground. With Backdrop on, ALL
> >>>>   > the LC windows will become visible when you tab to any LC
> >>>>   > window.
> >>>>
> >>>> The OS vendors help with that too:
> >>>>
> >>>> Windows: Shift-click Taskbar icon -> "Bring All Windows Forward"
> >>>>
> >>>> macOS:   Window menu -> Bring All to Front
> >>>>
> >>> Clicking the icon in the Mac Dock also brings all windows forward.
> >>> --
> >>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> >>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> use-livecode mailing list
> >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >>> subscription preferences:
> >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

From andrew at midwestcoastmedia.com  Wed May 31 14:39:26 2023
From: andrew at midwestcoastmedia.com (Andrew at MWCM)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2023 14:39:26 -0400
Subject: Android and USB footswitch
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1685030401.128917.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.1.1685030401.128917.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <507C5486-0188-468C-B248-8C4B9416114D@midwestcoastmedia.com>

You can open local PDFs in a LiveCode app by loading them into the Browser widget. Do you plan on compiling with the PDFs as part of your app (in the Resources folder) or trying to add to the app after the fact?

—Andrew Bell

>>> Since PDFs are not accessible via "mobilepickmedia" are there ANY other ways to add 
>>> some PDFs later without having to download them from some URL?
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 


From klaus at major-k.de  Wed May 31 14:45:27 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2023 20:45:27 +0200
Subject: Android and USB footswitch
In-Reply-To: <507C5486-0188-468C-B248-8C4B9416114D@midwestcoastmedia.com>
References: <mailman.1.1685030401.128917.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <507C5486-0188-468C-B248-8C4B9416114D@midwestcoastmedia.com>
Message-ID: <348DAFA2-554B-4E9D-B90A-B07EA0A54A8D@major-k.de>

Hi Andrew,

> Am 31.05.2023 um 20:39 schrieb Andrew at MWCM via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> You can open local PDFs in a LiveCode app by loading them into the Browser widget.

that does not work on Android! :-/
However I have a license the PDF widget.

> Do you plan on compiling with the PDFs as part of your app (in the Resources folder) or trying to add to the app after the fact?

Both! 
I have a large collection of music PDF and also want to add some later.

> —Andrew Bell
> 
>>>> Since PDFs are not accessible via "mobilepickmedia" are there ANY other ways to add 
>>>> some PDFs later without having to download them from some URL?
>> 
>> Best
>> 
>> Klaus

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de