From craig at starfirelighting.com  Fri Dec  1 09:04:00 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2023 09:04:00 -0500
Subject: greying out columns in a dataGrid
In-Reply-To: <CANbzFDpc_bWzmCszia=m=E1+228vSPXbSYbgNR-XxJ7hvwo8vQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <986A2C54-DBEA-49F4-A2B8-183A397DA3FB@gmail.com>
 <a5373678-4ae3-4015-9e8d-02d50eae4562@researchware.com>
 <E109CAA8-7494-4AA9-AFD1-DBE12C9551A6@gmail.com>
 <a846df39-296e-404a-bf7d-15cd3cdc32a4@researchware.com>
 <CANbzFDpc_bWzmCszia=m=E1+228vSPXbSYbgNR-XxJ7hvwo8vQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <553CBFB9-5E8A-4DFD-A5B7-0EB03A89204C@starfirelighting.com>

Zyrip.

Almost, and very good, since I do not understand DG’s at all.

I changed your offering to:


on mouseUp

dispatch "DG_ColorColumn" to grp "datagrid 1" with "col 2", "211,211,211"

—srcCopy  —no such command

end mouseUp


on DG_ColorColumn pColName, pColor, yellow

   set the opaque of grp pColName of me to (pColor is not empty)

   set the backcolor of grp pColName of me to pColor

   set the ink of grp 1 of me to blendSrcIn

end DG_ColorColumn



Craig




> On Nov 30, 2023, at 7:46 PM, zryip theSlug via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Hershel,
> 
> A possible solution consists to add this handler in the datagrid group
> script:
> 
> *command* DG_ColorColumn pColName, pColor, pInk
> *  set* the opaque of grp pColName of me to (pColor is not empty)
>  set the backcolor of grp pColName of me to pColor
>  set the ink of grp pColName of me to pInk
> *end* DG_ColorColumn
> 
> Then, call this handler that way:
> 
> *on* mouseUp
>  dispatch "DG_ColorColumn" to grp "datagrid 1" with "col 2", "211,211,211",
> "srcCopy"
> *end* mouseUp
> 
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> On Thu, 30 Nov 2023 at 22:49, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 11/30/2023 4:41 PM, Hershel F via use-livecode wrote:
>>> sorry my mistake. does not have to be greyed out should be a gray color.
>>> or to rephrase the question properly, how the change the color to gray?
>> 
>> Ah! I am pretty sure it can be done, but I do not know how to do it
>> exactly. By guess is that you will probably need to edit the row
>> template to add a "grey" background behind the columns your may want to
>> grey and then for those columns in the Property inspector, create a
>> custom column behavior to show or hide that grey background graphic
>> based on whatever calculation your want.
>> 
>> That is a guess though.
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Zryip TheSlug
> http://www.aslugontheroad.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From klaus at major-k.de  Fri Dec  1 09:10:43 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2023 15:10:43 +0100
Subject: greying out columns in a dataGrid
In-Reply-To: <553CBFB9-5E8A-4DFD-A5B7-0EB03A89204C@starfirelighting.com>
References: <986A2C54-DBEA-49F4-A2B8-183A397DA3FB@gmail.com>
 <a5373678-4ae3-4015-9e8d-02d50eae4562@researchware.com>
 <E109CAA8-7494-4AA9-AFD1-DBE12C9551A6@gmail.com>
 <a846df39-296e-404a-bf7d-15cd3cdc32a4@researchware.com>
 <CANbzFDpc_bWzmCszia=m=E1+228vSPXbSYbgNR-XxJ7hvwo8vQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <553CBFB9-5E8A-4DFD-A5B7-0EB03A89204C@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <8803E50E-95DA-4FD0-89C6-50679E226141@major-k.de>

Hi Craig,

always watch out for LINEBREAKS like here!

> Am 01.12.2023 um 15:04 schrieb Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> on mouseUp
> 
## Needs to be ONE line, see parameters of -> DG_ColorColumn
> ...
> dispatch "DG_ColorColumn" to grp "datagrid 1" with "col 2", "211,211,211", "srcCopy"
> ...
> Craig

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From derek-lc-list at speedbump.io  Sun Dec  3 13:00:03 2023
From: derek-lc-list at speedbump.io (Derek Bump)
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2023 12:00:03 -0600
Subject: Your scripts as a flowchart
In-Reply-To: <5357224F-1A01-4F2E-804A-014467118930@gmail.com>
References: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com>
 <CAKCLKtpqQXm8OwOuhb=2QSTzd+zqFF5fWiWpH0WZ6uxtVuxYRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <18a9f0eaa08.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CAKCLKtofwpfMt7L05z5CbCqA=xeEa3YM3bbodwdv0ZWK3bYBEw@mail.gmail.com>
 <023C9AEA-7B3A-455E-B6DC-18164BBF04B5@gmail.com>
 <CAKCLKtrOSD0O3kvs43Q_mJno4Dkf3e4Rv-JigjunPZJJP_s2pQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKCLKtr7_H9=htuGpOJiM_qOKKHONVimCYFLj2GRsN65jifqWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5357224F-1A01-4F2E-804A-014467118930@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45122269-0cd1-47ff-9dac-bb5c003ca1c4@speedbump.io>

Thank you, Andreas, this is very cool and quite helpful!


Some feedback to pass along for consideration:

1. I keep getting an Error 400 when creating a flowchart, and it seems 
to have something to do with the "Group per handler host" checkbox. If 
you toggle it in the right order, the chart will generate without an error.

2. Clicking any of the buttons to save files is not resulting in 
anything appearing on my Desktop. (Mint 21.2)

3. The teal backgrounds and gray text throughout the UI blends together 
and disappears when I look at it.


I hope this is helpful,

Derek Bump


On 11/30/23 14:45, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Finally I can answer Yes to the question on exporting script flowcharts!
> New version of WIS_ScriptDependencies available:
>
> v1.1.5 (30 Nov 2023)
>
> /Andreas
>


From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com  Sun Dec  3 14:29:14 2023
From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal)
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2023 20:29:14 +0100
Subject: Your scripts as a flowchart
In-Reply-To: <45122269-0cd1-47ff-9dac-bb5c003ca1c4@speedbump.io>
References: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com>
 <CAKCLKtpqQXm8OwOuhb=2QSTzd+zqFF5fWiWpH0WZ6uxtVuxYRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <18a9f0eaa08.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CAKCLKtofwpfMt7L05z5CbCqA=xeEa3YM3bbodwdv0ZWK3bYBEw@mail.gmail.com>
 <023C9AEA-7B3A-455E-B6DC-18164BBF04B5@gmail.com>
 <CAKCLKtrOSD0O3kvs43Q_mJno4Dkf3e4Rv-JigjunPZJJP_s2pQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKCLKtr7_H9=htuGpOJiM_qOKKHONVimCYFLj2GRsN65jifqWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5357224F-1A01-4F2E-804A-014467118930@gmail.com>
 <45122269-0cd1-47ff-9dac-bb5c003ca1c4@speedbump.io>
Message-ID: <C24EEA90-E5E2-4FB8-B0EF-C30DD601FB37@gmail.com>

Thanks for the feedback, Derek!

1. I get an Error 400 when trying for a flowchart of a monster stack with 180+ handlers with many interdependencies. This seems to be due to exceeding the upper limit of what the Mermaid/Kroki services can handle in therms of ”edges”. The graph is simply too complex. Try excluding substacks, or excluding handlers by adding them to the handler exclusion filter field, to reduce ”uninteresting” complexity.
(I tend to exclude mouse*, and commands/functions that are called many times put only do simple things like adding quotes, or utf conversion or something.) 

The "Group per handler host” feature adds complexity to the graph, so using that could also tip it over the error threshold. 
Unfortunately, the error message passed back from Mermaid/Kroki is not very enlightening. 

2. I realise that I have not put in any error catching for the case where the user has not yet chosen a save file destination. Try opening the flowchart settings pane (which should already set a default save path if empty) and click the folder icon to make an active choice. If it still doesn’t work for you then it might be a Linux issue, which unfortunately I’m unable to test.

3. Hmm, I don’t usually use any gray texts. All texts are black, except for a few big buttons that have ”midnight blue” text, which is also the colour of most of the icons. Is something happening to the UI on Linux? It would be interesting to see a screenshot of how it looks for you.

Here’s a screenshot of part of the UI, posted in the LC forum, that shows how it looks on Mac and Windows:
https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=37644&start=75

Best,
Andreas


> 3 dec. 2023 kl. 19:00 skrev Derek Bump via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Thank you, Andreas, this is very cool and quite helpful!
> 
> 
> Some feedback to pass along for consideration:
> 
> 1. I keep getting an Error 400 when creating a flowchart, and it seems to have something to do with the "Group per handler host" checkbox. If you toggle it in the right order, the chart will generate without an error.
> 
> 2. Clicking any of the buttons to save files is not resulting in anything appearing on my Desktop. (Mint 21.2)
> 
> 3. The teal backgrounds and gray text throughout the UI blends together and disappears when I look at it.
> 
> 
> I hope this is helpful,
> 
> Derek Bump
> 
> 
> On 11/30/23 14:45, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> Finally I can answer Yes to the question on exporting script flowcharts!
>> New version of WIS_ScriptDependencies available:
>> 
>> v1.1.5 (30 Nov 2023)
>> 
>> /Andreas


From derek-lc-list at speedbump.io  Sun Dec  3 17:45:32 2023
From: derek-lc-list at speedbump.io (Derek Bump)
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2023 16:45:32 -0600
Subject: Your scripts as a flowchart
In-Reply-To: <C24EEA90-E5E2-4FB8-B0EF-C30DD601FB37@gmail.com>
References: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com>
 <CAKCLKtpqQXm8OwOuhb=2QSTzd+zqFF5fWiWpH0WZ6uxtVuxYRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <18a9f0eaa08.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CAKCLKtofwpfMt7L05z5CbCqA=xeEa3YM3bbodwdv0ZWK3bYBEw@mail.gmail.com>
 <023C9AEA-7B3A-455E-B6DC-18164BBF04B5@gmail.com>
 <CAKCLKtrOSD0O3kvs43Q_mJno4Dkf3e4Rv-JigjunPZJJP_s2pQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKCLKtr7_H9=htuGpOJiM_qOKKHONVimCYFLj2GRsN65jifqWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5357224F-1A01-4F2E-804A-014467118930@gmail.com>
 <45122269-0cd1-47ff-9dac-bb5c003ca1c4@speedbump.io>
 <C24EEA90-E5E2-4FB8-B0EF-C30DD601FB37@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e2432ecf-2c08-4e3c-a4e0-8337b8541f54@speedbump.io>

My apologies, Andreas, I forget about Dark Mode being a bit finicky on 
my daily driver. Purely a personal preference which I've resolved, but I 
dropped the snapshots in the forum if you're still interested. Please 
disregard.

Otherwise I appreciate the quick response. I'm back on track, and will 
drop more on the forum if I find anything :-)

Thank you,

Derek Bump


On 12/3/23 13:29, Andreas Bergendal wrote:
> 3. Hmm, I dont usually use any gray texts. All texts are black, except for a few big buttons that have midnight blue text, which is also the colour of most of the icons. Is something happening to the UI on Linux? It would be interesting to see a screenshot of how it looks for you.
>
> Heres a screenshot of part of the UI, posted in the LC forum, that shows how it looks on Mac and Windows:
> https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=37644&start=75
>
> Best,
> Andreas
>
>
>> 3 dec. 2023 kl. 19:00 skrev Derek Bump via use-livecode<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>
>> Thank you, Andreas, this is very cool and quite helpful!
>>
>>
>> Some feedback to pass along for consideration:
>>
>> 1. I keep getting an Error 400 when creating a flowchart, and it seems to have something to do with the "Group per handler host" checkbox. If you toggle it in the right order, the chart will generate without an error.
>>
>> 2. Clicking any of the buttons to save files is not resulting in anything appearing on my Desktop. (Mint 21.2)
>>
>> 3. The teal backgrounds and gray text throughout the UI blends together and disappears when I look at it.
>>
>>
>> I hope this is helpful,
>>
>> Derek Bump
>>
>>
>> On 11/30/23 14:45, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Finally I can answer Yes to the question on exporting script flowcharts!
>>> New version of WIS_ScriptDependencies available:
>>>
>>> v1.1.5 (30 Nov 2023)
>>>
>>> /Andreas

From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Mon Dec  4 14:14:51 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2023 19:14:51 +0000
Subject: resizeControl wishes...
In-Reply-To: <35050596a67258140d60601085dc16f48c456429@fourthworld.com>
References: <35050596a67258140d60601085dc16f48c456429@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <B67FC474-ED45-4312-9EBC-E211A58BA5BE@iotecdigital.com>

Dang! I thought I was learning a new word!

Bob S


On Nov 30, 2023, at 9:29 AM, ambassador--- via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

it uses the power of the engine to its most efficient, preditable, and robust advangage to put things exactly where you want them.


From hershelflc at gmail.com  Mon Dec  4 19:12:30 2023
From: hershelflc at gmail.com (Hershel F)
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2023 19:12:30 -0500
Subject: greying out columns in a dataGrid
In-Reply-To: <8803E50E-95DA-4FD0-89C6-50679E226141@major-k.de>
References: <986A2C54-DBEA-49F4-A2B8-183A397DA3FB@gmail.com>
 <a5373678-4ae3-4015-9e8d-02d50eae4562@researchware.com>
 <E109CAA8-7494-4AA9-AFD1-DBE12C9551A6@gmail.com>
 <a846df39-296e-404a-bf7d-15cd3cdc32a4@researchware.com>
 <CANbzFDpc_bWzmCszia=m=E1+228vSPXbSYbgNR-XxJ7hvwo8vQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <553CBFB9-5E8A-4DFD-A5B7-0EB03A89204C@starfirelighting.com>
 <8803E50E-95DA-4FD0-89C6-50679E226141@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <487D54F9-E768-4D24-B52A-CF249DB36336@gmail.com>

Good, getting there. thanks. 
just need that the row dividers should  be a different color then the cells.
Hershel


> On Dec 1, 2023, at 9:10 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Craig,
> 
> always watch out for LINEBREAKS like here!
> 
>> Am 01.12.2023 um 15:04 schrieb Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> on mouseUp
>> 
> ## Needs to be ONE line, see parameters of -> DG_ColorColumn
>> ...
>> dispatch "DG_ColorColumn" to grp "datagrid 1" with "col 2", "211,211,211", "srcCopy"
>> ...
>> Craig
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From klaus at major-k.de  Tue Dec  5 11:41:09 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2023 17:41:09 +0100
Subject: Enhancement request for "Circle Avatar" widget.
Message-ID: <EE2718C5-EEE1-40D3-99E8-7D556A458456@major-k.de>

Hi friends,

see subject, I just created an enhencement request for
a round border around (sic! :-) the image inside of 
the widget, that would really make sense.
Not a border of the surrounding rect.

<https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=24447>


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From keith.clarke at me.com  Wed Dec  6 05:00:58 2023
From: keith.clarke at me.com (Keith Clarke)
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2023 10:00:58 +0000
Subject: LiveCode server as OAuth2 client for APIs?
Message-ID: <1B469B5C-D740-4105-9A32-A0C8A61085ED@me.com>

Hi folks,
Does anyone have experience of using OAuth2 with LiveCode server, to log into third-party data sources for API access?
 
I am experimenting with a web based utility app that runs on LiveCode server & RevIgniter and I need to be able to log into a Salesforce.com <http://salesforce.com/> account to pull data into the app via APIs. I’m following the Salesforce Oauth 2.0 Web Server Flow for Web App Integration https://help.salesforce.com/s/articleView?id=sf.remoteaccess_oauth_web_server_flow.htm&type=5 and 

I’ve configured the LiveCode app as a connected app in a Salesforce developer instance, to create a consumer id, with which I can request an authorisation code. This requires a POST to a Salesforce endpoint, which, if successful redirects to a page on the Salesforce authorisation server to provide login credentials. This is where I’m stuck...

The LiveCode OAuth2 library seems to be desktop centric (expecting any redirects via the loopback IP address of 127.0.0.1, rather than a URL); the RevIgniter forms library seems to support posts to URLs within the LiveCode app but not third party URLs; and if I create a LiveCode file to ‘post data to URL tSalesforceAuthURL’ from within RevIgniter, I can’t see any option to follow redirects and so, unsurprisingly, the page URL doesn’t change.

Any advice greatly appreciated.
Best,
Keith      

From rabit at revigniter.com  Wed Dec  6 12:53:07 2023
From: rabit at revigniter.com (Ralf Bitter)
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2023 18:53:07 +0100
Subject: LiveCode server as OAuth2 client for APIs?
In-Reply-To: <1B469B5C-D740-4105-9A32-A0C8A61085ED@me.com>
References: <1B469B5C-D740-4105-9A32-A0C8A61085ED@me.com>
Message-ID: <aad271de-668d-49e3-8ec3-29f99485e4f1@revigniter.com>

Hi Keith,

using revIgniter you can always hard code the opening
form tag, this way you can use any URL as an action
attribute.

However, your message has prompted me to change the
rigFormOpen() function so that you can override the
current URL with the value of an optional action
attribute included in the second parameter.
So, if you like, you can download the modified
version of the form helper at:

https://github.com/revig/revigniter/blob/develop/system/helpers/formHelper.livecodescript


Ralf



On 06.12.2023 11:00, Keith Clarke via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi folks,
> Does anyone have experience of using OAuth2 with LiveCode server, to log into third-party data sources for API access?
>   
> I am experimenting with a web based utility app that runs on LiveCode server & RevIgniter and I need to be able to log into a Salesforce.com <http://salesforce.com/> account to pull data into the app via APIs. Im following the Salesforce Oauth 2.0 Web Server Flow for Web App Integration https://help.salesforce.com/s/articleView?id=sf.remoteaccess_oauth_web_server_flow.htm&type=5 and
> 
> Ive configured the LiveCode app as a connected app in a Salesforce developer instance, to create a consumer id, with which I can request an authorisation code. This requires a POST to a Salesforce endpoint, which, if successful redirects to a page on the Salesforce authorisation server to provide login credentials. This is where Im stuck...
> 
> The LiveCode OAuth2 library seems to be desktop centric (expecting any redirects via the loopback IP address of 127.0.0.1, rather than a URL); the RevIgniter forms library seems to support posts to URLs within the LiveCode app but not third party URLs; and if I create a LiveCode file to post data to URL tSalesforceAuthURL from within RevIgniter, I cant see any option to follow redirects and so, unsurprisingly, the page URL doesnt change.
> 
> Any advice greatly appreciated.
> Best,
> Keith
> _______________________________________________


From keith.clarke at me.com  Thu Dec  7 12:01:50 2023
From: keith.clarke at me.com (Keith Clarke)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2023 17:01:50 +0000
Subject: LiveCode server as OAuth2 client for APIs?
In-Reply-To: <aad271de-668d-49e3-8ec3-29f99485e4f1@revigniter.com>
References: <1B469B5C-D740-4105-9A32-A0C8A61085ED@me.com>
 <aad271de-668d-49e3-8ec3-29f99485e4f1@revigniter.com>
Message-ID: <A290EA48-FBF6-43B2-8C0D-738A3FD37F73@me.com>

Hi Ralf,
Thanks for the guidance and updated formHelper script - and apologies to folks not using LiveCode Server or RevIgniter - I now realise this should have been posted on the use RevIgniter list. 

I’ve now got a basic button that submits a form data post to the Salesforce authorisation server. However, there are a couple of issues, which are probably due to me misreading the user guide (again!) and/or getting confused over what markup goes into controller and view files for RevIgniter.

I’m using a controller file to prepare and add to the gData[] array both the form contents and submit button, which are then accessed in the view file, using the following... 

<?	put gData["formOpen"] & gData["submit"] into tForm
  return tForm	
?> 

In the controller file, I first used the recipe for ‘Adding Hidden Input Fields’ to create an array for the third ‘hidden’ parameter of the rigFormOpen() function. This worked as a POST but all the hidden fields are visible in the view file’s html. This is rather insecure for authentication, revealing consumer_id (and in future, client_secret, which I’ll need to add to increase security once basic access is proven). 

So, I’m hoping the rigFormHidden(tData) recipe can keep the hidden content ‘LiveCode-side' until post submission and out of the HTML. So far the hidden values don’t seem to be getting into the POST, as I’m getting an unsupported request type (so the ‘response_type=code’ is not being received). 

I’m sure I am taking the wrong approach, as well as incorrect syntax in my controller handler - as if I understand things correctly, the way I’ve got parameter three of the rigFormOpen() call pointing at gData[‘hidden’] would, if successful, render the hidden contents visible in the view file’s html... 

  # Prepare Salesforce login form
  
    # Load form helper library
    rigLoadHelper "form"
  
  # Prepare hidden parameter data array
    put “XXsomeClientIdXX" into aHidden["client_id"]
    put URLencode(“XXsomeRedirectURLXX") into aHidden["redirect_uri"]
    put "code" into aHidden["response_type"]
    put rigFormHidden(aHidden) into gData["hidden"]
    
    # Prepare form
    put rigFormOpen(“XXauthoirisationServerURLXX", “", gData["hidden"]) into gData["formOpen"]
    
    # Prepare submit button
    put "sfLoginBtn" into aData["name"]
    put "sfLoginBtn" into aData["id"]
    put "btn btn-primary" into aData["class"]
    put "submit" into aData["type"]
    put "Salesforce Login" into aData["value"]
    
    put rigSubmitButton(aData) into gData["submit"]
  
  # put "Topic1,Topic2,Topic3" into gData["ListItems"]

  get rigLoadView("homeMainView")

I’m probably making multiple newbie errors, but I’ve been unable to find any worked examples of RevIgniter controller and view file markup for form posting. So, I’d be obliged for any hints and tips.
Best,
Keith

> On 6 Dec 2023, at 17:53, Ralf Bitter via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Keith,
> 
> using revIgniter you can always hard code the opening
> form tag, this way you can use any URL as an action
> attribute.
> 
> However, your message has prompted me to change the
> rigFormOpen() function so that you can override the
> current URL with the value of an optional action
> attribute included in the second parameter.
> So, if you like, you can download the modified
> version of the form helper at:
> 
> https://github.com/revig/revigniter/blob/develop/system/helpers/formHelper.livecodescript
> 
> 
> Ralf
> 
> 
> 
> On 06.12.2023 11:00, Keith Clarke via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hi folks,
>> Does anyone have experience of using OAuth2 with LiveCode server, to log into third-party data sources for API access?
>>  I am experimenting with a web based utility app that runs on LiveCode server & RevIgniter and I need to be able to log into a Salesforce.com <http://salesforce.com/> account to pull data into the app via APIs. I’m following the Salesforce Oauth 2.0 Web Server Flow for Web App Integration https://help.salesforce.com/s/articleView?id=sf.remoteaccess_oauth_web_server_flow.htm&type=5 and
>> I’ve configured the LiveCode app as a connected app in a Salesforce developer instance, to create a consumer id, with which I can request an authorisation code. This requires a POST to a Salesforce endpoint, which, if successful redirects to a page on the Salesforce authorisation server to provide login credentials. This is where I’m stuck...
>> The LiveCode OAuth2 library seems to be desktop centric (expecting any redirects via the loopback IP address of 127.0.0.1, rather than a URL); the RevIgniter forms library seems to support posts to URLs within the LiveCode app but not third party URLs; and if I create a LiveCode file to ‘post data to URL tSalesforceAuthURL’ from within RevIgniter, I can’t see any option to follow redirects and so, unsurprisingly, the page URL doesn’t change.
>> Any advice greatly appreciated.
>> Best,
>> Keith
>> _______________________________________________
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From scott at elementarysoftware.com  Thu Dec  7 19:13:20 2023
From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (scott at elementarysoftware.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2023 16:13:20 -0800
Subject: tsNetUploadSync()
Message-ID: <4BEE9678-D45D-4039-A0E8-80BB90F53EFB@elementarysoftware.com>

I have a project that uses the business version of tsNet to ftp a file onto a web server. (I’m using a Mac, the server is a shared one on hostm.) This works fine in LC 9.6.8 but fails in subsequent versions of LC 9.6.x as well as LC 10.0.0 (dp 6). I’m fairly ignorant of tsnet and file transfer protocols. My attempts to debug the problem by looking at headers and cURL error codes hasn’t gotten me anywhere useful. Is there something that changed between LC 9.6.8 and LC 9.6.9  that might help inform where I should be looking? I saw that LC 9.6.9 updated the version of OpenSSL it was using but I’m not sure if/how that might effect tsnet. I’ve put more details below.  Any ideas welcomed. (Well, almost any ;- )

--
Scott Morrow

Elementary Software
(Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
web       https://elementarysoftware.com/
email     scott at elementarysoftware.com
booth    1-360-734-4701
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------


When things don’t work I get:
"Transfer complete with server response code tsneterr: (13) Bad PASV/EPSV response: 250”  — which is confusing to me since:

"CURLE_FTP_WEIRD_PASV_REPLY (13)
libcurl failed to get a sensible result back from the server as a response to either a PASV or a EPSV command. The server is flawed.”

Although a 250 FTP response seems to mean: "Requested file action okay, completed"


When things do work [LC 9.6.8] I get:
"Transfer complete with server response code 226”   — which I think means: Closing data connection; requested file action successful

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A more complete list of responses

server responses from LC 9.6.11 (rc 1) failed attempt:

--------- Server Responses ---------
Downloading FTPS directory listing for /public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org/calendar_events_data from ftp://xxxxxxxxxxx.serversignin.com
Transfer complete with server response code tsneterr: (13) Bad PASV/EPSV response: 550------------------
tRecvHeaders:
220---------- Welcome to Pure-FTPd [privsep] [TLS] ---------- 
220-You are user number 6 of 188 allowed. 
220-Local time is now 22:44. Server port: 21. 
220-This is a private system - No anonymous login 
220-IPv6 connections are also welcome on this server. 
220 You will be disconnected after 30 minutes of inactivity. 
500 This security scheme is not implemented 
234 AUTH TLS OK. 
331 User xxxxxxxxxxx OK. Password required 
230 OK. Current restricted directory is / 
200 PBSZ=0 
200 Data protection level set to "private" 
257 "/" is your current location 
250 OK. Current directory is /public_html 
250 OK. Current directory is /public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org 
500 Unknown command 
227 Entering Passive Mode (192,99,207,157,134,188) 
200 TYPE is now 8-bit binary 
550 I can only retrieve regular files ------------------
Uploading file 2024_calendar_events.txt to ftp://xxxxxxxxxxx.serversignin.com/public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org/calendar_events_data
Transfer complete with server response code tsneterr: (13) Bad PASV/EPSV response: 250

tRecvHeaders:
227 Entering Passive Mode (192,99,207,157,126,230) 
250 OK. Current directory is / 
250 OK. Current directory is /public_html 
250 OK. Current directory is /public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org 
250 OK. Current directory is /public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org/calendar_events_data 
tsNetGetTimeouts: 60,0,300000,60000,30,1000


server responses from LC 9.6.8 successful attempt:

Downloading FTPS directory listing for /public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org/calendar_events_data from ftp://ua873228.serversignin.com
Transfer complete with server response code tsneterr: (78) The file does not exist------------------
tRecvHeaders:
220---------- Welcome to Pure-FTPd [privsep] [TLS] ---------- 
220-You are user number 2 of 188 allowed. 
220-Local time is now 23:19. Server port: 21. 
220-This is a private system - No anonymous login 
220-IPv6 connections are also welcome on this server. 
220 You will be disconnected after 30 minutes of inactivity. 
500 This security scheme is not implemented 
234 AUTH TLS OK. 
331 User xxxxxxxxxxx OK. Password required 
230 OK. Current restricted directory is / 
200 PBSZ=0 
200 Data protection level set to "private" 
257 "/" is your current location 
250 OK. Current directory is /public_html 
250 OK. Current directory is /public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org 
500 Unknown command 
227 Entering Passive Mode (192,99,207,157,133,222) 
200 TYPE is now 8-bit binary 
550 I can only retrieve regular files ------------------
Uploading file 2024_calendar_events.txt to ftp://xxxxxxxxxxx.serversignin.com/public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org/calendar_events_data
Transfer complete with server response code 226

tRecvHeaders:
250 OK. Current directory is / 
250 OK. Current directory is /public_html 
250 OK. Current directory is /public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org 
250 OK. Current directory is /public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org/calendar_events_data 
227 Entering Passive Mode (192,99,207,157,120,24) 
150 Accepted data connection 
226-File successfully transferred 
226 0.000 seconds (measured here), 1.75 Mbytes per second 
tsNetGetTimeouts: 60,0,300000,60000,30,1000

From rabit at revigniter.com  Fri Dec  8 06:01:24 2023
From: rabit at revigniter.com (Ralf Bitter)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2023 12:01:24 +0100
Subject: LiveCode server as OAuth2 client for APIs?
In-Reply-To: <A290EA48-FBF6-43B2-8C0D-738A3FD37F73@me.com>
References: <1B469B5C-D740-4105-9A32-A0C8A61085ED@me.com>
 <aad271de-668d-49e3-8ec3-29f99485e4f1@revigniter.com>
 <A290EA48-FBF6-43B2-8C0D-738A3FD37F73@me.com>
Message-ID: <de348ff6-a274-4b6f-9fa1-feb61f457de1@revigniter.com>

Hi Keith,

to avoid creating too much noise here, let's continue
the conversation on the revIgniter mailing list. You'll find my
answer there.


Ralf



On 07.12.2023 18:01, Keith Clarke via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi Ralf,
> Thanks for the guidance and updated formHelper script - and apologies to folks not using LiveCode Server or RevIgniter - I now realise this should have been posted on the use RevIgniter list.
> 
> Ive now got a basic button that submits a form data post to the Salesforce authorisation server. However, there are a couple of issues, which are probably due to me misreading the user guide (again!) and/or getting confused over what markup goes into controller and view files for RevIgniter.
> 
> Im using a controller file to prepare and add to the gData[] array both the form contents and submit button, which are then accessed in the view file, using the following...
> 
> <?	put gData["formOpen"] & gData["submit"] into tForm
>    return tForm	
> ?>
> 
> In the controller file, I first used the recipe for Adding Hidden Input Fields to create an array for the third hidden parameter of the rigFormOpen() function. This worked as a POST but all the hidden fields are visible in the view files html. This is rather insecure for authentication, revealing consumer_id (and in future, client_secret, which Ill need to add to increase security once basic access is proven).
> 
> So, Im hoping the rigFormHidden(tData) recipe can keep the hidden content LiveCode-side' until post submission and out of the HTML. So far the hidden values dont seem to be getting into the POST, as Im getting an unsupported request type (so the response_type=code is not being received).
> 
> Im sure I am taking the wrong approach, as well as incorrect syntax in my controller handler - as if I understand things correctly, the way Ive got parameter three of the rigFormOpen() call pointing at gData[hidden] would, if successful, render the hidden contents visible in the view files html...
> 
>    # Prepare Salesforce login form
>    
>      # Load form helper library
>      rigLoadHelper "form"
>    
>    # Prepare hidden parameter data array
>      put XXsomeClientIdXX" into aHidden["client_id"]
>      put URLencode(XXsomeRedirectURLXX") into aHidden["redirect_uri"]
>      put "code" into aHidden["response_type"]
>      put rigFormHidden(aHidden) into gData["hidden"]
>      
>      # Prepare form
>      put rigFormOpen(XXauthoirisationServerURLXX", ", gData["hidden"]) into gData["formOpen"]
>      
>      # Prepare submit button
>      put "sfLoginBtn" into aData["name"]
>      put "sfLoginBtn" into aData["id"]
>      put "btn btn-primary" into aData["class"]
>      put "submit" into aData["type"]
>      put "Salesforce Login" into aData["value"]
>      
>      put rigSubmitButton(aData) into gData["submit"]
>    
>    # put "Topic1,Topic2,Topic3" into gData["ListItems"]
> 
>    get rigLoadView("homeMainView")
> 
> Im probably making multiple newbie errors, but Ive been unable to find any worked examples of RevIgniter controller and view file markup for form posting. So, Id be obliged for any hints and tips.
> Best,
> Keith
> 
>> On 6 Dec 2023, at 17:53, Ralf Bitter via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Keith,
>>
>> using revIgniter you can always hard code the opening
>> form tag, this way you can use any URL as an action
>> attribute.
>>
>> However, your message has prompted me to change the
>> rigFormOpen() function so that you can override the
>> current URL with the value of an optional action
>> attribute included in the second parameter.
>> So, if you like, you can download the modified
>> version of the form helper at:
>>
>> https://github.com/revig/revigniter/blob/develop/system/helpers/formHelper.livecodescript
>>
>>
>> Ralf
>>
>>
>>
>> On 06.12.2023 11:00, Keith Clarke via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Hi folks,
>>> Does anyone have experience of using OAuth2 with LiveCode server, to log into third-party data sources for API access?
>>>   I am experimenting with a web based utility app that runs on LiveCode server & RevIgniter and I need to be able to log into a Salesforce.com <http://salesforce.com/> account to pull data into the app via APIs. Im following the Salesforce Oauth 2.0 Web Server Flow for Web App Integration https://help.salesforce.com/s/articleView?id=sf.remoteaccess_oauth_web_server_flow.htm&type=5 and
>>> Ive configured the LiveCode app as a connected app in a Salesforce developer instance, to create a consumer id, with which I can request an authorisation code. This requires a POST to a Salesforce endpoint, which, if successful redirects to a page on the Salesforce authorisation server to provide login credentials. This is where Im stuck...
>>> The LiveCode OAuth2 library seems to be desktop centric (expecting any redirects via the loopback IP address of 127.0.0.1, rather than a URL); the RevIgniter forms library seems to support posts to URLs within the LiveCode app but not third party URLs; and if I create a LiveCode file to post data to URL tSalesforceAuthURL from within RevIgniter, I cant see any option to follow redirects and so, unsurprisingly, the page URL doesnt change.
>>> Any advice greatly appreciated.
>>> Best,
>>> Keith


From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Fri Dec  8 10:40:06 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2023 16:40:06 +0100
Subject: tsNetUploadSync()
In-Reply-To: <4BEE9678-D45D-4039-A0E8-80BB90F53EFB@elementarysoftware.com>
References: <4BEE9678-D45D-4039-A0E8-80BB90F53EFB@elementarysoftware.com>
Message-ID: <51455AA3-4AED-43C0-B870-555166E3ED84@m-r-d.de>

Hi Scott,

i just tested here with LC 9.6.10 and 10DP6 on a HostM account and also on a Synology FTP account in Rosetta mode and native on ARM64
I used FTP explicit as protocol.
In all cases it was successful.

My HostM account is on a server located in Germany at Hetzner, Your domain is on a server located in Canada at OHV.
So maybe there was a change in tsNET and there  is a difference between how our servers confirm the successful upload. And maybe the way  your server confirms the upload, does not "comply" with the changes in tsNET.

Maybe the HostM support could help in changing the settings. They are very used with Livecode. Y

Btw.  I could send you the login data for my test account so you could check  if it is working with that account. 
Then you could tell HostM suppert  that there is no problem with a German HostM account.

Regards,
Matthias






> Am 08.12.2023 um 01:13 schrieb scott--- via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> I have a project that uses the business version of tsNet to ftp a file onto a web server. (I’m using a Mac, the server is a shared one on hostm.) This works fine in LC 9.6.8 but fails in subsequent versions of LC 9.6.x as well as LC 10.0.0 (dp 6). I’m fairly ignorant of tsnet and file transfer protocols. My attempts to debug the problem by looking at headers and cURL error codes hasn’t gotten me anywhere useful. Is there something that changed between LC 9.6.8 and LC 9.6.9  that might help inform where I should be looking? I saw that LC 9.6.9 updated the version of OpenSSL it was using but I’m not sure if/how that might effect tsnet. I’ve put more details below.  Any ideas welcomed. (Well, almost any ;- )
> 
> --
> Scott Morrow
> 
> Elementary Software
> (Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
> web       https://elementarysoftware.com/
> email     scott at elementarysoftware.com
> booth    1-360-734-4701
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> When things don’t work I get:
> "Transfer complete with server response code tsneterr: (13) Bad PASV/EPSV response: 250”  — which is confusing to me since:
> 
> "CURLE_FTP_WEIRD_PASV_REPLY (13)
> libcurl failed to get a sensible result back from the server as a response to either a PASV or a EPSV command. The server is flawed.”
> 
> Although a 250 FTP response seems to mean: "Requested file action okay, completed"
> 
> 
> When things do work [LC 9.6.8] I get:
> "Transfer complete with server response code 226”   — which I think means: Closing data connection; requested file action successful
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> A more complete list of responses
> 
> server responses from LC 9.6.11 (rc 1) failed attempt:
> 
> --------- Server Responses ---------
> Downloading FTPS directory listing for /public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org/calendar_events_data from ftp://xxxxxxxxxxx.serversignin.com
> Transfer complete with server response code tsneterr: (13) Bad PASV/EPSV response: 550------------------
> tRecvHeaders:
> 220---------- Welcome to Pure-FTPd [privsep] [TLS] ---------- 
> 220-You are user number 6 of 188 allowed. 
> 220-Local time is now 22:44. Server port: 21. 
> 220-This is a private system - No anonymous login 
> 220-IPv6 connections are also welcome on this server. 
> 220 You will be disconnected after 30 minutes of inactivity. 
> 500 This security scheme is not implemented 
> 234 AUTH TLS OK. 
> 331 User xxxxxxxxxxx OK. Password required 
> 230 OK. Current restricted directory is / 
> 200 PBSZ=0 
> 200 Data protection level set to "private" 
> 257 "/" is your current location 
> 250 OK. Current directory is /public_html 
> 250 OK. Current directory is /public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org 
> 500 Unknown command 
> 227 Entering Passive Mode (192,99,207,157,134,188) 
> 200 TYPE is now 8-bit binary 
> 550 I can only retrieve regular files ------------------
> Uploading file 2024_calendar_events.txt to ftp://xxxxxxxxxxx.serversignin.com/public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org/calendar_events_data
> Transfer complete with server response code tsneterr: (13) Bad PASV/EPSV response: 250
> 
> tRecvHeaders:
> 227 Entering Passive Mode (192,99,207,157,126,230) 
> 250 OK. Current directory is / 
> 250 OK. Current directory is /public_html 
> 250 OK. Current directory is /public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org 
> 250 OK. Current directory is /public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org/calendar_events_data 
> tsNetGetTimeouts: 60,0,300000,60000,30,1000
> 
> 
> server responses from LC 9.6.8 successful attempt:
> 
> Downloading FTPS directory listing for /public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org/calendar_events_data from ftp://ua873228.serversignin.com
> Transfer complete with server response code tsneterr: (78) The file does not exist------------------
> tRecvHeaders:
> 220---------- Welcome to Pure-FTPd [privsep] [TLS] ---------- 
> 220-You are user number 2 of 188 allowed. 
> 220-Local time is now 23:19. Server port: 21. 
> 220-This is a private system - No anonymous login 
> 220-IPv6 connections are also welcome on this server. 
> 220 You will be disconnected after 30 minutes of inactivity. 
> 500 This security scheme is not implemented 
> 234 AUTH TLS OK. 
> 331 User xxxxxxxxxxx OK. Password required 
> 230 OK. Current restricted directory is / 
> 200 PBSZ=0 
> 200 Data protection level set to "private" 
> 257 "/" is your current location 
> 250 OK. Current directory is /public_html 
> 250 OK. Current directory is /public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org 
> 500 Unknown command 
> 227 Entering Passive Mode (192,99,207,157,133,222) 
> 200 TYPE is now 8-bit binary 
> 550 I can only retrieve regular files ------------------
> Uploading file 2024_calendar_events.txt to ftp://xxxxxxxxxxx.serversignin.com/public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org/calendar_events_data
> Transfer complete with server response code 226
> 
> tRecvHeaders:
> 250 OK. Current directory is / 
> 250 OK. Current directory is /public_html 
> 250 OK. Current directory is /public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org 
> 250 OK. Current directory is /public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org/calendar_events_data 
> 227 Entering Passive Mode (192,99,207,157,120,24) 
> 150 Accepted data connection 
> 226-File successfully transferred 
> 226 0.000 seconds (measured here), 1.75 Mbytes per second 
> tsNetGetTimeouts: 60,0,300000,60000,30,1000
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From gcanyon at gmail.com  Fri Dec  8 16:42:07 2023
From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2023 16:42:07 -0500
Subject: Does the browser widget work?
Message-ID: <CAKCLKtozcaRQKaQjs=S5G_ahdR7HSezru1paLLV7pHWigdgR1A@mail.gmail.com>

set the url of widget 1 to “http://www.google.com” — nothing

set the url of widget 1 to “file:///Users/gcanyon/Desktop/test.html” — also
nothing

Am I doing it wrong?

From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com  Fri Dec  8 16:53:41 2023
From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2023 22:53:41 +0100
Subject: Does the browser widget work?
In-Reply-To: <CAKCLKtozcaRQKaQjs=S5G_ahdR7HSezru1paLLV7pHWigdgR1A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKCLKtozcaRQKaQjs=S5G_ahdR7HSezru1paLLV7pHWigdgR1A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <999D6ECF-5598-41EB-8FD2-E9D0A07F2718@gmail.com>

It works for me (LC 9.6.11, Mac).

Impractically, the browser widget only shows its content with browse tool selected, not pointer tool.
But I suppose your problem isn’t that simple, right…? :)


> 8 dec. 2023 kl. 22:42 skrev Geoff Canyon via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> set the url of widget 1 to “http://www.google.com” — nothing
> 
> set the url of widget 1 to “file:///Users/gcanyon/Desktop/test.html” — also
> nothing
> 
> Am I doing it wrong?


From gcanyon at gmail.com  Fri Dec  8 16:59:59 2023
From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2023 16:59:59 -0500
Subject: Does the browser widget work?
In-Reply-To: <999D6ECF-5598-41EB-8FD2-E9D0A07F2718@gmail.com>
References: <CAKCLKtozcaRQKaQjs=S5G_ahdR7HSezru1paLLV7pHWigdgR1A@mail.gmail.com>
 <999D6ECF-5598-41EB-8FD2-E9D0A07F2718@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKCLKtotnbVmkTJT5BDvvMY6ZuH6bxsZo6xNE3_ODs5hikjL6w@mail.gmail.com>

Good gosh, WHY!?

(That fixed it, thanks)

On Fri, Dec 8, 2023 at 4:53 PM Andreas Bergendal <
andreas.bergendal at gmail.com> wrote:

> It works for me (LC 9.6.11, Mac).
>
> Impractically, the browser widget only shows its content with browse tool
> selected, not pointer tool.
> But I suppose your problem isn’t that simple, right…? :)
>
>
> > 8 dec. 2023 kl. 22:42 skrev Geoff Canyon via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> >
> > set the url of widget 1 to “http://www.google.com” — nothing
> >
> > set the url of widget 1 to “file:///Users/gcanyon/Desktop/test.html” —
> also
> > nothing
> >
> > Am I doing it wrong?
>

From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Dec  8 17:29:42 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2023 22:29:42 +0000
Subject: Does the browser widget work?
In-Reply-To: <CAKCLKtotnbVmkTJT5BDvvMY6ZuH6bxsZo6xNE3_ODs5hikjL6w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKCLKtozcaRQKaQjs=S5G_ahdR7HSezru1paLLV7pHWigdgR1A@mail.gmail.com>
 <999D6ECF-5598-41EB-8FD2-E9D0A07F2718@gmail.com>
 <CAKCLKtotnbVmkTJT5BDvvMY6ZuH6bxsZo6xNE3_ODs5hikjL6w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0127CE6A-2FC0-4C98-A965-C905F26F3316@iotecdigital.com>

Imagine certain accidental and unwanted web page spewing out sound and questionable content at work and no way to make it stop. That is one excellent reason I can give for why. :-)

Bob S


> On Dec 8, 2023, at 1:59 PM, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Good gosh, WHY!?
> 
> (That fixed it, thanks)
> 
> On Fri, Dec 8, 2023 at 4:53 PM Andreas Bergendal <
> andreas.bergendal at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> It works for me (LC 9.6.11, Mac).
>> 
>> Impractically, the browser widget only shows its content with browse tool
>> selected, not pointer tool.
>> But I suppose your problem isn’t that simple, right…? :)
>> 
>> 
>>> 8 dec. 2023 kl. 22:42 skrev Geoff Canyon via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> set the url of widget 1 to “http://www.google.com” — nothing
>>> 
>>> set the url of widget 1 to “file:///Users/gcanyon/Desktop/test.html” —
>> also
>>> nothing
>>> 
>>> Am I doing it wrong?
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Dec  8 18:42:50 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2023 23:42:50 +0000
Subject: Get rid of the remote debugger
Message-ID: <18F929FA-49AB-4B89-AC1D-E714F4326299@iotecdigital.com>

I occasionally get the dreaded error in remote debugger stack is password protected issue. I don’t WANT the remote debugger. I do not NEED the remote debugger. How can I rid myself of this incredibly annoying pest? 

Bob S


From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Fri Dec  8 19:14:48 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2023 01:14:48 +0100
Subject: Get rid of the remote debugger
In-Reply-To: <18F929FA-49AB-4B89-AC1D-E714F4326299@iotecdigital.com>
References: <18F929FA-49AB-4B89-AC1D-E714F4326299@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <9F518B85-69A5-4D26-A8AA-A4019DD084E4@m-r-d.de>

Hm, did you already try to delete the folder   Extensions/com.livecode.library.remotedebugger in the Livecode Extensions folder?

> Am 09.12.2023 um 00:42 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> I occasionally get the dreaded error in remote debugger stack is password protected issue. I don’t WANT the remote debugger. I do not NEED the remote debugger. How can I rid myself of this incredibly annoying pest? 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Dec  8 22:01:15 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2023 21:01:15 -0600
Subject: Get rid of the remote debugger
In-Reply-To: <9F518B85-69A5-4D26-A8AA-A4019DD084E4@m-r-d.de>
References: <18F929FA-49AB-4B89-AC1D-E714F4326299@iotecdigital.com>
 <9F518B85-69A5-4D26-A8AA-A4019DD084E4@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <18c4c85a078.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

Piggy backing... Did you try turning off script debugging from the 
development menu?

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On December 8, 2023 6:16:57 PM matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hm, did you already try to delete the folder   
> Extensions/com.livecode.library.remotedebugger in the Livecode Extensions 
> folder?
>
>> Am 09.12.2023 um 00:42 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>
>> I occasionally get the dreaded error in remote debugger stack is password 
>> protected issue. I dont WANT the remote debugger. I do not NEED the remote 
>> debugger. How can I rid myself of this incredibly annoying pest?
>>
>> Bob S
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From paul at researchware.com  Sat Dec  9 08:33:44 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2023 08:33:44 -0500
Subject: Get rid of the remote debugger
In-Reply-To: <18c4c85a078.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <18F929FA-49AB-4B89-AC1D-E714F4326299@iotecdigital.com>
 <9F518B85-69A5-4D26-A8AA-A4019DD084E4@m-r-d.de>
 <18c4c85a078.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <47084ee5-22ec-440b-bbd2-7238aa9fbd6c@researchware.com>

For what it's worth, I sometime get these errors. I develop on Windows 
11 (x64) using LC 9.6.11 and do not develop for mobile or web, so no 
remote debugging. I do not want to get rid of (remove) or turn off 
script debugging. I use the script debugger all the time.

There is some recipe, that I have not figured out yet, where this error 
occurs, when you are just doing what I'd consider "normal" debugging. I 
just have not had time to pin it down. (To busy filing PDF Widget bugs 
and enhancements to get it to parity with the XPDF external).

Paul Dupuis
Researchware

On 12/8/2023 10:01 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
> Piggy backing... Did you try turning off script debugging from the 
> development menu?
>
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On December 8, 2023 6:16:57 PM matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> Hm, did you already try to delete the folder   
>> Extensions/com.livecode.library.remotedebugger in the Livecode 
>> Extensions folder?
>>
>>> Am 09.12.2023 um 00:42 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>
>>> I occasionally get the dreaded error in remote debugger stack is 
>>> password protected issue. I dont WANT the remote debugger. I do not 
>>> NEED the remote debugger. How can I rid myself of this incredibly 
>>> annoying pest?
>>>
>>> Bob S
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From tom at makeshyft.com  Sat Dec  9 16:22:37 2023
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2023 16:22:37 -0500
Subject: APPWrite Integration
Message-ID: <CAPzQJLJHuOx-PGEbQUaCWC1mL_sx6Hkwg-vusirFYhRLYKczzA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Folks,

If anyone here is interested in a working APPWrite LC Integration, pm me.
Authentication & JWT Token
And document CRUD.
Using TSNet

If you've never heard of it, appwrite.io

Cheers,

Tom

From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Sun Dec 10 16:59:42 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2023 21:59:42 +0000
Subject: Get rid of the remote debugger
In-Reply-To: <47084ee5-22ec-440b-bbd2-7238aa9fbd6c@researchware.com>
References: <18F929FA-49AB-4B89-AC1D-E714F4326299@iotecdigital.com>
 <9F518B85-69A5-4D26-A8AA-A4019DD084E4@m-r-d.de>
 <18c4c85a078.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <47084ee5-22ec-440b-bbd2-7238aa9fbd6c@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <43DE7FB7-8C88-4C28-B95E-A048117FA527@iotecdigital.com>

I will try the suggestions, however I use the IDE debugger extensively so that is not an option. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 9, 2023, at 05:35, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> For what it's worth, I sometime get these errors. I develop on Windows 11 (x64) using LC 9.6.11 and do not develop for mobile or web, so no remote debugging. I do not want to get rid of (remove) or turn off script debugging. I use the script debugger all the time.
> 
> There is some recipe, that I have not figured out yet, where this error occurs, when you are just doing what I'd consider "normal" debugging. I just have not had time to pin it down. (To busy filing PDF Widget bugs and enhancements to get it to parity with the XPDF external).
> 
> Paul Dupuis
> Researchware
> 
>> On 12/8/2023 10:01 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
>> Piggy backing... Did you try turning off script debugging from the development menu?
>> 
>> -- 
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>> On December 8, 2023 6:16:57 PM matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hm, did you already try to delete the folder   Extensions/com.livecode.library.remotedebugger in the Livecode Extensions folder?
>>> 
>>>> Am 09.12.2023 um 00:42 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>> 
>>>> I occasionally get the dreaded error in remote debugger stack is password protected issue. I don’t WANT the remote debugger. I do not NEED the remote debugger. How can I rid myself of this incredibly annoying pest?
>>>> 
>>>> Bob S
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun Dec 10 19:05:16 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2023 18:05:16 -0600
Subject: Get rid of the remote debugger
In-Reply-To: <43DE7FB7-8C88-4C28-B95E-A048117FA527@iotecdigital.com>
References: <18F929FA-49AB-4B89-AC1D-E714F4326299@iotecdigital.com>
 <9F518B85-69A5-4D26-A8AA-A4019DD084E4@m-r-d.de>
 <18c4c85a078.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <47084ee5-22ec-440b-bbd2-7238aa9fbd6c@researchware.com>
 <43DE7FB7-8C88-4C28-B95E-A048117FA527@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <18c56313a60.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

You can just turn it off when testing mobile and restore it when back in 
the IDE.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On December 10, 2023 4:02:01 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I will try the suggestions, however I use the IDE debugger extensively so 
> that is not an option.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Dec 9, 2023, at 05:35, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> For what it's worth, I sometime get these errors. I develop on Windows 11 
>> (x64) using LC 9.6.11 and do not develop for mobile or web, so no remote 
>> debugging. I do not want to get rid of (remove) or turn off script 
>> debugging. I use the script debugger all the time.
>>
>> There is some recipe, that I have not figured out yet, where this error 
>> occurs, when you are just doing what I'd consider "normal" debugging. I 
>> just have not had time to pin it down. (To busy filing PDF Widget bugs and 
>> enhancements to get it to parity with the XPDF external).
>>
>> Paul Dupuis
>> Researchware
>>
>>> On 12/8/2023 10:01 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Piggy backing... Did you try turning off script debugging from the 
>>> development menu?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>>> On December 8, 2023 6:16:57 PM matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
>>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hm, did you already try to delete the folder   
>>>> Extensions/com.livecode.library.remotedebugger in the Livecode Extensions 
>>>> folder?
>>>>
>>>>> Am 09.12.2023 um 00:42 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>>>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>> I occasionally get the dreaded error in remote debugger stack is password 
>>>>> protected issue. I dont WANT the remote debugger. I do not NEED the remote 
>>>>> debugger. How can I rid myself of this incredibly annoying pest?
>>>>>
>>>>> Bob S
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Sun Dec 10 19:25:31 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2023 00:25:31 +0000
Subject: Get rid of the remote debugger
In-Reply-To: <18c56313a60.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <18F929FA-49AB-4B89-AC1D-E714F4326299@iotecdigital.com>
 <9F518B85-69A5-4D26-A8AA-A4019DD084E4@m-r-d.de>
 <18c4c85a078.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <47084ee5-22ec-440b-bbd2-7238aa9fbd6c@researchware.com>
 <43DE7FB7-8C88-4C28-B95E-A048117FA527@iotecdigital.com>
 <18c56313a60.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <C434DED2-894E-4B56-A505-1E2091F31318@iotecdigital.com>

The problem is that I am not testing a mobile app. I am simply launching a stack in the IDE. The remote debugger should not even be in the message path. It’s clear there is a problem with my code, but because the Debugger gets in the way I can’t tell where. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 10, 2023, at 16:06, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> You can just turn it off when testing mobile and restore it when back in the IDE.
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>> On December 10, 2023 4:02:01 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I will try the suggestions, however I use the IDE debugger extensively so that is not an option.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>>> On Dec 9, 2023, at 05:35, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> For what it's worth, I sometime get these errors. I develop on Windows 11 (x64) using LC 9.6.11 and do not develop for mobile or web, so no remote debugging. I do not want to get rid of (remove) or turn off script debugging. I use the script debugger all the time.
>>> 
>>> There is some recipe, that I have not figured out yet, where this error occurs, when you are just doing what I'd consider "normal" debugging. I just have not had time to pin it down. (To busy filing PDF Widget bugs and enhancements to get it to parity with the XPDF external).
>>> 
>>> Paul Dupuis
>>> Researchware
>>> 
>>>> On 12/8/2023 10:01 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> Piggy backing... Did you try turning off script debugging from the development menu?
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>>>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>>>> On December 8, 2023 6:16:57 PM matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hm, did you already try to delete the folder   Extensions/com.livecode.library.remotedebugger in the Livecode Extensions folder?
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Am 09.12.2023 um 00:42 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I occasionally get the dreaded error in remote debugger stack is password protected issue. I don’t WANT the remote debugger. I do not NEED the remote debugger. How can I rid myself of this incredibly annoying pest?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Bob S
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Dec 11 00:19:02 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2023 23:19:02 -0600
Subject: Get rid of the remote debugger
In-Reply-To: <C434DED2-894E-4B56-A505-1E2091F31318@iotecdigital.com>
References: <18F929FA-49AB-4B89-AC1D-E714F4326299@iotecdigital.com>
 <9F518B85-69A5-4D26-A8AA-A4019DD084E4@m-r-d.de>
 <18c4c85a078.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <47084ee5-22ec-440b-bbd2-7238aa9fbd6c@researchware.com>
 <43DE7FB7-8C88-4C28-B95E-A048117FA527@iotecdigital.com>
 <18c56313a60.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <C434DED2-894E-4B56-A505-1E2091F31318@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <18c57507d70.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

Oh! Sorry, I thought you were testing on mobile. I don't think you should 
be getting errors from the remote debugger when you're in the IDE...very 
strange.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On December 10, 2023 6:27:33 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> The problem is that I am not testing a mobile app. I am simply launching a 
> stack in the IDE. The remote debugger should not even be in the message 
> path. Its clear there is a problem with my code, but because the Debugger 
> gets in the way I cant tell where.





From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Mon Dec 11 11:36:18 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2023 16:36:18 +0000
Subject: Get rid of the remote debugger
In-Reply-To: <9F518B85-69A5-4D26-A8AA-A4019DD084E4@m-r-d.de>
References: <18F929FA-49AB-4B89-AC1D-E714F4326299@iotecdigital.com>
 <9F518B85-69A5-4D26-A8AA-A4019DD084E4@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <D5D80BA7-73F7-44D9-A1FC-8E2A17788B2C@iotecdigital.com>

That is not where the remote debugger lives on MacOS. It is in the Application package. I can try to remove it from there and see what happens. 

Bob S


> On Dec 8, 2023, at 4:14 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hm, did you already try to delete the folder   Extensions/com.livecode.library.remotedebugger in the Livecode Extensions folder?
> 
>> Am 09.12.2023 um 00:42 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> I occasionally get the dreaded error in remote debugger stack is password protected issue. I don’t WANT the remote debugger. I do not NEED the remote debugger. How can I rid myself of this incredibly annoying pest? 
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Mon Dec 11 11:41:27 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2023 16:41:27 +0000
Subject: Get rid of the remote debugger
In-Reply-To: <D5D80BA7-73F7-44D9-A1FC-8E2A17788B2C@iotecdigital.com>
References: <18F929FA-49AB-4B89-AC1D-E714F4326299@iotecdigital.com>
 <9F518B85-69A5-4D26-A8AA-A4019DD084E4@m-r-d.de>
 <D5D80BA7-73F7-44D9-A1FC-8E2A17788B2C@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <528E4C6A-70B4-4ECB-8377-4DD185ECFE87@iotecdigital.com>

Ahah! I removed the folder from the application package extensions folder and I no longer get the error! Also, my code is not throwing ANY kind of error, so this is definitely something wrong with the remote debugger or something else that thinks a remote debugger error has occurred when it hasn’t. 

Bob S


> On Dec 11, 2023, at 8:36 AM, Bob Sneidar <bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com> wrote:
> 
> That is not where the remote debugger lives on MacOS. It is in the Application package. I can try to remove it from there and see what happens. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Dec 8, 2023, at 4:14 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hm, did you already try to delete the folder   Extensions/com.livecode.library.remotedebugger in the Livecode Extensions folder?
>> 
>>> Am 09.12.2023 um 00:42 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> I occasionally get the dreaded error in remote debugger stack is password protected issue. I don’t WANT the remote debugger. I do not NEED the remote debugger. How can I rid myself of this incredibly annoying pest? 
>>> 
>>> Bob S
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Dec 11 14:19:47 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2023 13:19:47 -0600
Subject: Get rid of the remote debugger
In-Reply-To: <528E4C6A-70B4-4ECB-8377-4DD185ECFE87@iotecdigital.com>
References: <18F929FA-49AB-4B89-AC1D-E714F4326299@iotecdigital.com>
 <9F518B85-69A5-4D26-A8AA-A4019DD084E4@m-r-d.de>
 <D5D80BA7-73F7-44D9-A1FC-8E2A17788B2C@iotecdigital.com>
 <528E4C6A-70B4-4ECB-8377-4DD185ECFE87@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <18c5a523838.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

If you have a reproducible script it would be something LC probably should 
know about in a bug report.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On December 11, 2023 10:43:27 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Ahah! I removed the folder from the application package extensions folder 
> and I no longer get the error! Also, my code is not throwing ANY kind of 
> error, so this is definitely something wrong with the remote debugger or 
> something else that thinks a remote debugger error has occurred when it hasnt.
>
> Bob S
>
>
>> On Dec 11, 2023, at 8:36 AM, Bob Sneidar <bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com> wrote:
>>
>> That is not where the remote debugger lives on MacOS. It is in the 
>> Application package. I can try to remove it from there and see what happens.
>>
>> Bob S
>>
>>
>>> On Dec 8, 2023, at 4:14 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hm, did you already try to delete the folder   
>>> Extensions/com.livecode.library.remotedebugger in the Livecode Extensions 
>>> folder?
>>>
>>>> Am 09.12.2023 um 00:42 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>>
>>>> I occasionally get the dreaded error in remote debugger stack is password 
>>>> protected issue. I dont WANT the remote debugger. I do not NEED the remote 
>>>> debugger. How can I rid myself of this incredibly annoying pest?
>>>>
>>>> Bob S
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Mon Dec 11 14:35:16 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2023 19:35:16 +0000
Subject: Get rid of the remote debugger
In-Reply-To: <18c5a523838.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <18F929FA-49AB-4B89-AC1D-E714F4326299@iotecdigital.com>
 <9F518B85-69A5-4D26-A8AA-A4019DD084E4@m-r-d.de>
 <D5D80BA7-73F7-44D9-A1FC-8E2A17788B2C@iotecdigital.com>
 <528E4C6A-70B4-4ECB-8377-4DD185ECFE87@iotecdigital.com>
 <18c5a523838.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <2276BD3E-C677-4188-BE00-8E5FBFDA1C9C@iotecdigital.com>

See that is the exact problem. Because when enabled, the remoteScriptDebugger says there is an error, but cannot show me where the error is because the script is locked, I have no clue as to what script (if any) is causing the issue. That is why I asked if anyone had the password to the remoteScriptDebugger, so I could trace it back.

And to further complicate things, once I remove the remoteScriptDebugger, none of my regular scripts are failing, unless it is failing silently which lands me right where I started.

Anyway, at least I have a workaround.

Bob S


On Dec 11, 2023, at 11:19 AM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

If you have a reproducible script it would be something LC probably should know about in a bug report.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com<mailto:jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com<http://www.hyperactivesw.com/>


From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au  Mon Dec 11 15:15:36 2023
From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe)
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2023 07:15:36 +1100
Subject: Get rid of the remote debugger
Message-ID: <D5C969EF-F88C-41E3-9C30-BE683D9F108C@optusnet.com.au>

Bob: There may be a problem with your code.
I believe I have seen the Remote Debugger message when I had a runtime error in a modal dialog. In earlier versions of LiveCode the dialog would fail silently, returning to the stack without reporting any error but actually not executing any code after the error. This was an LC bug and is supposed to have been fixed but instead of getting a useful error reported from the modal dialog I got the unhelpful Remote Debugger message … better than nothing.

If you have a modal dialog try running your stack with the dialog non-modally to check this possibility.

Neville Smythe




From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Mon Dec 11 15:17:47 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2023 21:17:47 +0100
Subject: Get rid of the remote debugger
In-Reply-To: <D5D80BA7-73F7-44D9-A1FC-8E2A17788B2C@iotecdigital.com>
References: <18F929FA-49AB-4B89-AC1D-E714F4326299@iotecdigital.com>
 <9F518B85-69A5-4D26-A8AA-A4019DD084E4@m-r-d.de>
 <D5D80BA7-73F7-44D9-A1FC-8E2A17788B2C@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <DCF5BA40-8B91-4093-92E4-641498B5F7AE@m-r-d.de>

I meant the extensions folder in the app bundle, just don't mentioned it. Thought that it is clear that all included extensions reside in the app bundle. ;)



> Am 11.12.2023 um 17:36 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> That is not where the remote debugger lives on MacOS. It is in the Application package. I can try to remove it from there and see what happens. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Dec 8, 2023, at 4:14 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hm, did you already try to delete the folder   Extensions/com.livecode.library.remotedebugger in the Livecode Extensions folder?
>> 
>>> Am 09.12.2023 um 00:42 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> I occasionally get the dreaded error in remote debugger stack is password protected issue. I don’t WANT the remote debugger. I do not NEED the remote debugger. How can I rid myself of this incredibly annoying pest? 
>>> 
>>> Bob S
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From panos.merakos at livecode.com  Tue Dec 12 11:09:02 2023
From: panos.merakos at livecode.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2023 18:09:02 +0200
Subject: [[ANN]] Release 10.0.0 DP-7
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq8irXtQMuh0VcbF64SckqnGOgkdxGt_rma0RbeWyCiNQQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear list members,

We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 10.0.0 DP-7.

LiveCode 10.0.0 DP-7 comes with more than 16 bugfixes and new features
since the previous DP release, and also includes the bug fixes of LiveCode
9.6.11, such as support for building with Xcode 15 / iOS 17 SDK and some
fixes for macOS Sonoma.

You can find more details on the bug fixes and improvements of this new
release here:

https://livecode.com/livecode-10-dp-7-ios-17-sonoma-fixes/

You can find the release in your LiveCode account area or get it via the
automatic updater.

Enjoy!

Kind regards
The LiveCode Team
--

From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Tue Dec 12 15:24:19 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2023 20:24:19 +0000
Subject: [[ANN]] Release 10.0.0 DP-7
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq8irXtQMuh0VcbF64SckqnGOgkdxGt_rma0RbeWyCiNQQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+JfEq8irXtQMuh0VcbF64SckqnGOgkdxGt_rma0RbeWyCiNQQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <370CED91-BEF7-4AF0-94C1-A20D41A8E943@gmail.com>

Thank you Panos. I look forward to diving into this.

Mark

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 12, 2023, at 4:10 PM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Dear list members,
> 
> We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 10.0.0 DP-7.
> 
> LiveCode 10.0.0 DP-7 comes with more than 16 bugfixes and new features
> since the previous DP release, and also includes the bug fixes of LiveCode
> 9.6.11, such as support for building with Xcode 15 / iOS 17 SDK and some
> fixes for macOS Sonoma.
> 
> You can find more details on the bug fixes and improvements of this new
> release here:
> 
> https://livecode.com/livecode-10-dp-7-ios-17-sonoma-fixes/
> 
> You can find the release in your LiveCode account area or get it via the
> automatic updater.
> 
> Enjoy!
> 
> Kind regards
> The LiveCode Team
> --
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com  Wed Dec 13 14:08:15 2023
From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2023 20:08:15 +0100
Subject: Your scripts as a flowchart
In-Reply-To: <e2432ecf-2c08-4e3c-a4e0-8337b8541f54@speedbump.io>
References: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com>
 <CAKCLKtpqQXm8OwOuhb=2QSTzd+zqFF5fWiWpH0WZ6uxtVuxYRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <18a9f0eaa08.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CAKCLKtofwpfMt7L05z5CbCqA=xeEa3YM3bbodwdv0ZWK3bYBEw@mail.gmail.com>
 <023C9AEA-7B3A-455E-B6DC-18164BBF04B5@gmail.com>
 <CAKCLKtrOSD0O3kvs43Q_mJno4Dkf3e4Rv-JigjunPZJJP_s2pQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKCLKtr7_H9=htuGpOJiM_qOKKHONVimCYFLj2GRsN65jifqWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5357224F-1A01-4F2E-804A-014467118930@gmail.com>
 <45122269-0cd1-47ff-9dac-bb5c003ca1c4@speedbump.io>
 <C24EEA90-E5E2-4FB8-B0EF-C30DD601FB37@gmail.com>
 <e2432ecf-2c08-4e3c-a4e0-8337b8541f54@speedbump.io>
Message-ID: <A9BBAB28-D426-4613-A45A-C6C8A8E8AD86@gmail.com>

Latest WIS_ScriptDependencies update:

1.1.6 (12 Dec 2023)
- Enhancement: If the Kroki service is down, so no png/svg can be produced, a dialog is presented giving the choice to render the flowchart as html instead
- Enhancement: Improved design of the help section and the flowchart settings pane
- Enhancement: Mermaid version can now be modified (affects html rendering only). This is not something you’d normally need to do, but it has turned out that the latest versions of Mermaid implement some kind of hard limit on the number of edges, preventing large flowcharts from rendering. So for now, Mermaid v10.5.1 is default (no edge limit), but can be changed to a later version by advanced users.
- Fixed bug: Some actions in the mainstack triggered flowchart updates even if the flowchart substack was closed
- Other minor fixes

Download here:
https://github.com/wheninspace/WIS_ScriptDependencies/releases/latest

From markclark at mac.com  Wed Dec 13 19:33:17 2023
From: markclark at mac.com (Mark Clark)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2023 18:33:17 -0600
Subject: ferruslogic timer
Message-ID: <7DE4DC5C-E7C2-4BA8-988B-4ABE5793B1AD@mac.com>

Seems like there was a handy timer widget by ferrus logic a while back. Think the extension was community.livecode.ferruslogic.timer -- Not seeing it on google or github. Discontinued? (I should have been more careful removing old app bundles)

Mark

From bdrunrev at gmail.com  Thu Dec 14 09:24:46 2023
From: bdrunrev at gmail.com (Bernard Devlin)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 14:24:46 +0000
Subject: OT: htmx and hyperscript
Message-ID: <CA+O+R-FhdOH7Rbvxfk_qNfLrqmXeB4C-FgeGH-_ctscFD7Ud5w@mail.gmail.com>

As I was looking into htmx (which is basically going in the opposite
direction to that which Livecode is taking with WASM), I discovered the
author of htmx has also implemented a kind of hypertalk in the browser (the
point being to more simply hook into DOM events).

It looks rather ugly IMO (unlike htmx).  But I know people on this list are
often interested in descendants/hat-tips to Hypercard.

https://hyperscript.org/

Regards, Bernard

From paul at researchware.com  Thu Dec 14 16:22:13 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 16:22:13 -0500
Subject: Which is faster...
Message-ID: <719ea94e-6473-4ce2-a992-8bc371c8c446@researchware.com>

Which is faster or more efficient (from an engine performance perspective)?

To retrieve an array from a property?
As in:
command someHandler -- in an objects script
   get the cMyArray from me -- cMyArray is some multi-dimensional array
   ...
end someHandler

OR

To retrieve an array from a script local variable?
As in:
local sMyArray -- script local variable in some objects script

command someHandler -- in an objects script
   get sMyArray
   ...
end someHandler

Anyone know?


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu Dec 14 16:45:53 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 21:45:53 +0000
Subject: Which is faster...
In-Reply-To: <719ea94e-6473-4ce2-a992-8bc371c8c446@researchware.com>
References: <719ea94e-6473-4ce2-a992-8bc371c8c446@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <C5D56BA7-22A0-4D4C-A33D-6533F511ADF8@iotecdigital.com>

I think the confusion comes from thinking so much of a stack as an object that has substance, when really all the properties are places in memory just like a memory variable is. I asked this some years back and the answer I got was that there is no appreciable difference.

One could always devise a test though…

Bob S


On Dec 14, 2023, at 1:22 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

Which is faster or more efficient (from an engine performance perspective)?

To retrieve an array from a property?
As in:
command someHandler -- in an objects script
  get the cMyArray from me -- cMyArray is some multi-dimensional array
  ...
end someHandler

OR

To retrieve an array from a script local variable?
As in:
local sMyArray -- script local variable in some objects script

command someHandler -- in an objects script
  get sMyArray
  ...
end someHandler

Anyone know?


From paul at researchware.com  Thu Dec 14 16:55:14 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 16:55:14 -0500
Subject: Which is faster...
In-Reply-To: <C5D56BA7-22A0-4D4C-A33D-6533F511ADF8@iotecdigital.com>
References: <719ea94e-6473-4ce2-a992-8bc371c8c446@researchware.com>
 <C5D56BA7-22A0-4D4C-A33D-6533F511ADF8@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <204ed529-064d-4ad0-a693-fee00f02fe94@researchware.com>

Bob,

Thank you. I could script a timing test but sometime just asking the 
list or forums is easier. You asnwered well before I would have had the 
time to write a basic test script. Thanks!


On 12/14/2023 4:45 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
> I think the confusion comes from thinking so much of a stack as an object that has substance, when really all the properties are places in memory just like a memory variable is. I asked this some years back and the answer I got was that there is no appreciable difference.
>
> One could always devise a test though
>
> Bob S
>
>
> On Dec 14, 2023, at 1:22 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> Which is faster or more efficient (from an engine performance perspective)?
>
> To retrieve an array from a property?
> As in:
> command someHandler -- in an objects script
>    get the cMyArray from me -- cMyArray is some multi-dimensional array
>    ...
> end someHandler
>
> OR
>
> To retrieve an array from a script local variable?
> As in:
> local sMyArray -- script local variable in some objects script
>
> command someHandler -- in an objects script
>    get sMyArray
>    ...
> end someHandler
>
> Anyone know?
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From craig at starfirelighting.com  Thu Dec 14 17:25:32 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 17:25:32 -0500
Subject: Which is faster...
In-Reply-To: <204ed529-064d-4ad0-a693-fee00f02fe94@researchware.com>
References: <719ea94e-6473-4ce2-a992-8bc371c8c446@researchware.com>
 <C5D56BA7-22A0-4D4C-A33D-6533F511ADF8@iotecdigital.com>
 <204ed529-064d-4ad0-a693-fee00f02fe94@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <3B75B569-02F5-4B34-B45C-98A674F39669@starfirelighting.com>

Anything to distract me from my day job.

An array with 100,000 elements and a variable with 100,00 lines take the same time to place into a field.

The only time that took a while was building them. Each took 10 milliseconds.

Craig

> On Dec 14, 2023, at 4:55 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Bob,
> 
> Thank you. I could script a timing test but sometime just asking the list or forums is easier. You asnwered well before I would have had the time to write a basic test script. Thanks!
> 
> 
> On 12/14/2023 4:45 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
>> I think the confusion comes from thinking so much of a stack as an object that has substance, when really all the properties are places in memory just like a memory variable is. I asked this some years back and the answer I got was that there is no appreciable difference.
>> 
>> One could always devise a test though…
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>> 
>> On Dec 14, 2023, at 1:22 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Which is faster or more efficient (from an engine performance perspective)?
>> 
>> To retrieve an array from a property?
>> As in:
>> command someHandler -- in an objects script
>>   get the cMyArray from me -- cMyArray is some multi-dimensional array
>>   ...
>> end someHandler
>> 
>> OR
>> 
>> To retrieve an array from a script local variable?
>> As in:
>> local sMyArray -- script local variable in some objects script
>> 
>> command someHandler -- in an objects script
>>   get sMyArray
>>   ...
>> end someHandler
>> 
>> Anyone know?
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From paul at researchware.com  Thu Dec 14 17:30:49 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 17:30:49 -0500
Subject: Which is faster...
In-Reply-To: <3B75B569-02F5-4B34-B45C-98A674F39669@starfirelighting.com>
References: <719ea94e-6473-4ce2-a992-8bc371c8c446@researchware.com>
 <C5D56BA7-22A0-4D4C-A33D-6533F511ADF8@iotecdigital.com>
 <204ed529-064d-4ad0-a693-fee00f02fe94@researchware.com>
 <3B75B569-02F5-4B34-B45C-98A674F39669@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <9e930437-9f6b-4c43-8478-22d82f28a81b@researchware.com>

On 12/14/2023 5:25 PM, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote:
> Anything to distract me from my day job.
Glad I could help!

And thank you for the confirming benchmarks!

From craig at starfirelighting.com  Thu Dec 14 17:32:09 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 17:32:09 -0500
Subject: Which is faster...
In-Reply-To: <3B75B569-02F5-4B34-B45C-98A674F39669@starfirelighting.com>
References: <719ea94e-6473-4ce2-a992-8bc371c8c446@researchware.com>
 <C5D56BA7-22A0-4D4C-A33D-6533F511ADF8@iotecdigital.com>
 <204ed529-064d-4ad0-a693-fee00f02fe94@researchware.com>
 <3B75B569-02F5-4B34-B45C-98A674F39669@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <A3979B6E-FD85-4CFD-B393-C2E6B7C82327@starfirelighting.com>

Typo in the last post. BOTH had 100,000 elements or lines.

Craig

> On Dec 14, 2023, at 5:25 PM, Craig Newman <craig at starfirelighting.com> wrote:
> 
> Anything to distract me from my day job.
> 
> An array with 100,000 elements and a variable with 100,00 lines take the same time to place into a field.
> 
> The only time that took a while was building them. Each took 10 milliseconds.
> 
> Craig
> 
>> On Dec 14, 2023, at 4:55 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Bob,
>> 
>> Thank you. I could script a timing test but sometime just asking the list or forums is easier. You asnwered well before I would have had the time to write a basic test script. Thanks!
>> 
>> 
>> On 12/14/2023 4:45 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
>>> I think the confusion comes from thinking so much of a stack as an object that has substance, when really all the properties are places in memory just like a memory variable is. I asked this some years back and the answer I got was that there is no appreciable difference.
>>> 
>>> One could always devise a test though…
>>> 
>>> Bob S
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Dec 14, 2023, at 1:22 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Which is faster or more efficient (from an engine performance perspective)?
>>> 
>>> To retrieve an array from a property?
>>> As in:
>>> command someHandler -- in an objects script
>>>  get the cMyArray from me -- cMyArray is some multi-dimensional array
>>>  ...
>>> end someHandler
>>> 
>>> OR
>>> 
>>> To retrieve an array from a script local variable?
>>> As in:
>>> local sMyArray -- script local variable in some objects script
>>> 
>>> command someHandler -- in an objects script
>>>  get sMyArray
>>>  ...
>>> end someHandler
>>> 
>>> Anyone know?
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 



From craig at starfirelighting.com  Thu Dec 14 17:33:40 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 17:33:40 -0500
Subject: Which is faster...
In-Reply-To: <A3979B6E-FD85-4CFD-B393-C2E6B7C82327@starfirelighting.com>
References: <719ea94e-6473-4ce2-a992-8bc371c8c446@researchware.com>
 <C5D56BA7-22A0-4D4C-A33D-6533F511ADF8@iotecdigital.com>
 <204ed529-064d-4ad0-a693-fee00f02fe94@researchware.com>
 <3B75B569-02F5-4B34-B45C-98A674F39669@starfirelighting.com>
 <A3979B6E-FD85-4CFD-B393-C2E6B7C82327@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <EF21484A-C0B3-4B35-9CB7-6CB533D13531@starfirelighting.com>

Laziness in the last post.

BOTH took 10 mS to fill an ordinary variable.

Craig

> On Dec 14, 2023, at 5:32 PM, Craig Newman <craig at starfirelighting.com> wrote:
> 
> Typo in the last post. BOTH had 100,000 elements or lines.
> 
> Craig
> 
>> On Dec 14, 2023, at 5:25 PM, Craig Newman <craig at starfirelighting.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Anything to distract me from my day job.
>> 
>> An array with 100,000 elements and a variable with 100,00 lines take the same time to place into a field.
>> 
>> The only time that took a while was building them. Each took 10 milliseconds.
>> 
>> Craig
>> 
>>> On Dec 14, 2023, at 4:55 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Bob,
>>> 
>>> Thank you. I could script a timing test but sometime just asking the list or forums is easier. You asnwered well before I would have had the time to write a basic test script. Thanks!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 12/14/2023 4:45 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> I think the confusion comes from thinking so much of a stack as an object that has substance, when really all the properties are places in memory just like a memory variable is. I asked this some years back and the answer I got was that there is no appreciable difference.
>>>> 
>>>> One could always devise a test though…
>>>> 
>>>> Bob S
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Dec 14, 2023, at 1:22 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Which is faster or more efficient (from an engine performance perspective)?
>>>> 
>>>> To retrieve an array from a property?
>>>> As in:
>>>> command someHandler -- in an objects script
>>>> get the cMyArray from me -- cMyArray is some multi-dimensional array
>>>> ...
>>>> end someHandler
>>>> 
>>>> OR
>>>> 
>>>> To retrieve an array from a script local variable?
>>>> As in:
>>>> local sMyArray -- script local variable in some objects script
>>>> 
>>>> command someHandler -- in an objects script
>>>> get sMyArray
>>>> ...
>>>> end someHandler
>>>> 
>>>> Anyone know?
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> 



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu Dec 14 19:33:15 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2023 00:33:15 +0000
Subject: Which is faster...
In-Reply-To: <3B75B569-02F5-4B34-B45C-98A674F39669@starfirelighting.com>
References: <719ea94e-6473-4ce2-a992-8bc371c8c446@researchware.com>
 <C5D56BA7-22A0-4D4C-A33D-6533F511ADF8@iotecdigital.com>
 <204ed529-064d-4ad0-a693-fee00f02fe94@researchware.com>
 <3B75B569-02F5-4B34-B45C-98A674F39669@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <97739B91-D628-4173-BC8D-F8D2529F31B3@iotecdigital.com>

That is not exactly the test he was looking for. He wants to compare retrieving an array from a script local variable vs. getting a property of an object like a stack, that contains the same array. At least I think that is the question. 

Now I’d like to discuss virtual properties. It takes the form: 

Local lValueA

setProp myVirtualProperty, pValueA
   Put pValueA into lValueA
End setProp

The reason this is really handy is because if pValueA is an array, you can then use the form: 

getProp myVirtualProperty [pKey]
   If pKey is not empty then 
      Return lValueA [pKey]
   Else
      Return tValueA
End getProp

In other words, you can get elements of the array without getting the entire array itself i.e.:

Put the myVirtualProperty [“companyname”] of myLivecodeObject into tCompanyName

I use this quite extensively. I have a single card which contains all the currently queried database data for caching purposes, along with the currently selected indexes for each datagrid, and the currently selected primary keys. I call the getProp and setProp handlers maingriddata. So I can:

Get the maingriddata [“hilitedkeys”] of tMainCard
Get the maingriddata [“hilitedindexes”] of tMainCard
Get the maingriddata [“customers”]
Put the queriedCustomersA into tMainGridDataA
Set the maingriddata to tMainGridDataA

And so forth. Any kind of logic can be used in the getProp and setProp handlers. 

Bob S

> On Dec 14, 2023, at 2:25 PM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Anything to distract me from my day job.
> 
> An array with 100,000 elements and a variable with 100,00 lines take the same time to place into a field.
> 
> The only time that took a while was building them. Each took 10 milliseconds.
> 
> Craig
> 
>> On Dec 14, 2023, at 4:55 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Bob,
>> 
>> Thank you. I could script a timing test but sometime just asking the list or forums is easier. You asnwered well before I would have had the time to write a basic test script. Thanks!
>> 
>> 
>> On 12/14/2023 4:45 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
>>> I think the confusion comes from thinking so much of a stack as an object that has substance, when really all the properties are places in memory just like a memory variable is. I asked this some years back and the answer I got was that there is no appreciable difference.
>>> 
>>> One could always devise a test though…
>>> 
>>> Bob S
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Dec 14, 2023, at 1:22 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Which is faster or more efficient (from an engine performance perspective)?
>>> 
>>> To retrieve an array from a property?
>>> As in:
>>> command someHandler -- in an objects script
>>>  get the cMyArray from me -- cMyArray is some multi-dimensional array
>>>  ...
>>> end someHandler
>>> 
>>> OR
>>> 
>>> To retrieve an array from a script local variable?
>>> As in:
>>> local sMyArray -- script local variable in some objects script
>>> 
>>> command someHandler -- in an objects script
>>>  get sMyArray
>>>  ...
>>> end someHandler
>>> 
>>> Anyone know?
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From craig at starfirelighting.com  Fri Dec 15 09:28:47 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2023 09:28:47 -0500
Subject: Which is faster...
In-Reply-To: <97739B91-D628-4173-BC8D-F8D2529F31B3@iotecdigital.com>
References: <719ea94e-6473-4ce2-a992-8bc371c8c446@researchware.com>
 <C5D56BA7-22A0-4D4C-A33D-6533F511ADF8@iotecdigital.com>
 <204ed529-064d-4ad0-a693-fee00f02fe94@researchware.com>
 <3B75B569-02F5-4B34-B45C-98A674F39669@starfirelighting.com>
 <97739B91-D628-4173-BC8D-F8D2529F31B3@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <173CC9FA-DEF0-401A-AAB2-06E100810286@starfirelighting.com>

OK, I see what you mean.

I set a custom property of the card to the array I used earlier. It takes almost no time at all to put the contents of that property into a variable. It is not relevant whether it is a script local variable or not.

Bottom line, I do not think it makes any difference whether one uses a custom property or a variable to hold data in terms of the speed in which that data is retrieved.

Craig

> On Dec 14, 2023, at 7:33 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> That is not exactly the test he was looking for. He wants to compare retrieving an array from a script local variable vs. getting a property of an object like a stack, that contains the same array. At least I think that is the question. 
> 
> Now I’d like to discuss virtual properties. It takes the form: 
> 
> Local lValueA
> 
> setProp myVirtualProperty, pValueA
>   Put pValueA into lValueA
> End setProp
> 
> The reason this is really handy is because if pValueA is an array, you can then use the form: 
> 
> getProp myVirtualProperty [pKey]
>   If pKey is not empty then 
>      Return lValueA [pKey]
>   Else
>      Return tValueA
> End getProp
> 
> In other words, you can get elements of the array without getting the entire array itself i.e.:
> 
> Put the myVirtualProperty [“companyname”] of myLivecodeObject into tCompanyName
> 
> I use this quite extensively. I have a single card which contains all the currently queried database data for caching purposes, along with the currently selected indexes for each datagrid, and the currently selected primary keys. I call the getProp and setProp handlers maingriddata. So I can:
> 
> Get the maingriddata [“hilitedkeys”] of tMainCard
> Get the maingriddata [“hilitedindexes”] of tMainCard
> Get the maingriddata [“customers”]
> Put the queriedCustomersA into tMainGridDataA
> Set the maingriddata to tMainGridDataA
> 
> And so forth. Any kind of logic can be used in the getProp and setProp handlers. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
>> On Dec 14, 2023, at 2:25 PM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Anything to distract me from my day job.
>> 
>> An array with 100,000 elements and a variable with 100,00 lines take the same time to place into a field.
>> 
>> The only time that took a while was building them. Each took 10 milliseconds.
>> 
>> Craig
>> 
>>> On Dec 14, 2023, at 4:55 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Bob,
>>> 
>>> Thank you. I could script a timing test but sometime just asking the list or forums is easier. You asnwered well before I would have had the time to write a basic test script. Thanks!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 12/14/2023 4:45 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> I think the confusion comes from thinking so much of a stack as an object that has substance, when really all the properties are places in memory just like a memory variable is. I asked this some years back and the answer I got was that there is no appreciable difference.
>>>> 
>>>> One could always devise a test though…
>>>> 
>>>> Bob S
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Dec 14, 2023, at 1:22 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Which is faster or more efficient (from an engine performance perspective)?
>>>> 
>>>> To retrieve an array from a property?
>>>> As in:
>>>> command someHandler -- in an objects script
>>>> get the cMyArray from me -- cMyArray is some multi-dimensional array
>>>> ...
>>>> end someHandler
>>>> 
>>>> OR
>>>> 
>>>> To retrieve an array from a script local variable?
>>>> As in:
>>>> local sMyArray -- script local variable in some objects script
>>>> 
>>>> command someHandler -- in an objects script
>>>> get sMyArray
>>>> ...
>>>> end someHandler
>>>> 
>>>> Anyone know?
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From mark at livecode.com  Fri Dec 15 10:00:06 2023
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2023 15:00:06 +0000
Subject: Which is faster...
In-Reply-To: <719ea94e-6473-4ce2-a992-8bc371c8c446@researchware.com>
References: <719ea94e-6473-4ce2-a992-8bc371c8c446@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <38212f935bbe92a232d82be36e50a603@livecode.com>

On 2023-12-14 21:22, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
> Which is faster or more efficient (from an engine performance 
> perspective)?
> 
> To retrieve an array from a property?
> As in:
> command someHandler -- in an objects script
>   get the cMyArray from me -- cMyArray is some multi-dimensional array
>   ...
> end someHandler
> 
> OR
> 
> To retrieve an array from a script local variable?
> As in:
> local sMyArray -- script local variable in some objects script
> 
> command someHandler -- in an objects script
>   get sMyArray
>   ...
> end someHandler
> 
> Anyone know?

Fetching a value directly from a variable will always be faster than any 
other method - as it essentially reduces to fetching or storing a value 
from a (integer indexed) table.

In contrast, fetching a custom property will require a message send 
unless lock messages is set, and then an array lookup (to actually get 
the property's value).

Custom property sets are stored using the same data structure internally 
as livecode arrays so getting `the cMyArray of me` eventually reduces to 
the same as objectsCurrentPropertySet["cMyArray"] - the latter lookup is 
more work than just fetching a value from an internal table.

UPSHOT:

Fetching a value directly from a variable is a constant time operation.

If lock messages is false, then the time it takes to fetch a custom 
property value will be somewhat proportional to the length of the 
message path from the point of view of the object you are accessing - 
i.e. how many frontscripts, backscripts, stacks in use, and parent 
objects/behaviors the object has.

If lock messages is true, then the time it takes to fetch a custom 
property value will be pretty much the same as doing an LC array key 
lookup.

Now whether or not this actually matters in any one case will largely 
depend on how often such access is being done - if its a few times in 
the context of UI-related code then it probably won't be appreciable; 
if, however, you are fetching a custom property 100000's of times in a 
tight loop and the rest of the loop is only doing small amounts of work, 
you'll definitely notice a difference.

SIMPLE BENCHMARK:

```

on mouseUp
local sMyArray

on mouseUp
    set the cMyArray of me to [ 1, 2, 3 ]
    put empty

    local tTime
    put the milliseconds into tTime
    repeat 1000000 times
       get the cMyArray of me
    end repeat
    put "CUSTOM PROP:" && the milliseconds - tTime & return after msg

    put the milliseconds into tTime
    lock messages
    repeat 1000000 times
       get the cMyArray of me
    end repeat
    unlock messages
    put "CUSTOM PROP (LOCKED OUTSIDE):" && the milliseconds - tTime & 
return after msg

    put the milliseconds into tTime
    repeat 1000000 times
       lock messages
       get the cMyArray of me
       unlock messages
    end repeat
    put "CUSTOM PROP (LOCKED INSIDE):" && the milliseconds - tTime & 
return after msg

    local tMyProps
    put [ 1, 2, 3 ] into tMyProps["cMyArray"]
    put the milliseconds into tTime
    repeat 1000000 times
       get sMyArray["cMyArray"]
    end repeat
    put "ARRAY ELEMENT:" && the milliseconds - tTime & return after msg

    put the milliseconds into tTime
    lock messages
    repeat 1000000 times
       get sMyArray
    end repeat
    unlock messages
    put "SCRIPT LOCAL:" && the milliseconds - tTime & return after msg
end mouseUp
end mouseUp
```

RESULTS (1 million iterations):

CUSTOM PROP: 2006
CUSTOM PROP (LOCKED OUTSIDE): 116
CUSTOM PROP (LOCKED INSIDE): 125
ARRAY ELEMENT: 80
SCRIPT LOCAL: 38

ANALYSIS:

The above results are run in the IDE which is important to mention 
because the message path in the IDE is typically longer than that in 
standalones (as the all extension libraries are loaded, and the IDE 
inserts its own front/back/stacks into the message path).

Accessing custom properties with messages locked is nearly 10x faster 
than without (again that multiplier will be vary with the length of the 
message path).

Using lock/unlock messages for every custom property access has a (quite 
negligible) 10% overhead - and the message path overhead (in the IDE) is 
about 40% of the total (the array element fetch will be the rest).

Accessing a script local is
   - about 50x faster than accessing a custom property when messages are 
sent
   - about 3x faster than accessing a custom property when messages are 
not sent
   - about 2x faster than accessing an array element

Just to reiterate - these figures are for 1,000,000 accesses done in a 
tight loop (in the IDE). If you do it for (say) 1000 iterations then the 
differences are within the margin of error of measuring a millisecond.

Overall, my suggestion would be probably to do a combination of both - 
if you are only reading from a custom property in a given loop, but are 
doing so multiple times for the same property (and the loop actually has 
a very high number of iterations!) then fetch into a local variable 
before the loop and then use that value (the same, to be fair, is true 
of calling functions which return fixed values and accessing array 
elements - especially ones on paths longer than one).

Hope this helps,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things


From craig at starfirelighting.com  Fri Dec 15 10:35:00 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2023 10:35:00 -0500
Subject: Which is faster...
In-Reply-To: <38212f935bbe92a232d82be36e50a603@livecode.com>
References: <719ea94e-6473-4ce2-a992-8bc371c8c446@researchware.com>
 <38212f935bbe92a232d82be36e50a603@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <2F785484-0752-4ED8-BA6C-631D3C4489E2@starfirelighting.com>

This is why LCMark gets the big bucks.

Craig

> On Dec 15, 2023, at 10:00 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> On 2023-12-14 21:22, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
>> Which is faster or more efficient (from an engine performance perspective)?
>> To retrieve an array from a property?
>> As in:
>> command someHandler -- in an objects script
>>   get the cMyArray from me -- cMyArray is some multi-dimensional array
>>   ...
>> end someHandler
>> OR
>> To retrieve an array from a script local variable?
>> As in:
>> local sMyArray -- script local variable in some objects script
>> command someHandler -- in an objects script
>>   get sMyArray
>>   ...
>> end someHandler
>> Anyone know?
> 
> Fetching a value directly from a variable will always be faster than any other method - as it essentially reduces to fetching or storing a value from a (integer indexed) table.
> 
> In contrast, fetching a custom property will require a message send unless lock messages is set, and then an array lookup (to actually get the property's value).
> 
> Custom property sets are stored using the same data structure internally as livecode arrays so getting `the cMyArray of me` eventually reduces to the same as objectsCurrentPropertySet["cMyArray"] - the latter lookup is more work than just fetching a value from an internal table.
> 
> UPSHOT:
> 
> Fetching a value directly from a variable is a constant time operation.
> 
> If lock messages is false, then the time it takes to fetch a custom property value will be somewhat proportional to the length of the message path from the point of view of the object you are accessing - i.e. how many frontscripts, backscripts, stacks in use, and parent objects/behaviors the object has.
> 
> If lock messages is true, then the time it takes to fetch a custom property value will be pretty much the same as doing an LC array key lookup.
> 
> Now whether or not this actually matters in any one case will largely depend on how often such access is being done - if its a few times in the context of UI-related code then it probably won't be appreciable; if, however, you are fetching a custom property 100000's of times in a tight loop and the rest of the loop is only doing small amounts of work, you'll definitely notice a difference.
> 
> SIMPLE BENCHMARK:
> 
> ```
> 
> on mouseUp
> local sMyArray
> 
> on mouseUp
>   set the cMyArray of me to [ 1, 2, 3 ]
>   put empty
> 
>   local tTime
>   put the milliseconds into tTime
>   repeat 1000000 times
>      get the cMyArray of me
>   end repeat
>   put "CUSTOM PROP:" && the milliseconds - tTime & return after msg
> 
>   put the milliseconds into tTime
>   lock messages
>   repeat 1000000 times
>      get the cMyArray of me
>   end repeat
>   unlock messages
>   put "CUSTOM PROP (LOCKED OUTSIDE):" && the milliseconds - tTime & return after msg
> 
>   put the milliseconds into tTime
>   repeat 1000000 times
>      lock messages
>      get the cMyArray of me
>      unlock messages
>   end repeat
>   put "CUSTOM PROP (LOCKED INSIDE):" && the milliseconds - tTime & return after msg
> 
>   local tMyProps
>   put [ 1, 2, 3 ] into tMyProps["cMyArray"]
>   put the milliseconds into tTime
>   repeat 1000000 times
>      get sMyArray["cMyArray"]
>   end repeat
>   put "ARRAY ELEMENT:" && the milliseconds - tTime & return after msg
> 
>   put the milliseconds into tTime
>   lock messages
>   repeat 1000000 times
>      get sMyArray
>   end repeat
>   unlock messages
>   put "SCRIPT LOCAL:" && the milliseconds - tTime & return after msg
> end mouseUp
> end mouseUp
> ```
> 
> RESULTS (1 million iterations):
> 
> CUSTOM PROP: 2006
> CUSTOM PROP (LOCKED OUTSIDE): 116
> CUSTOM PROP (LOCKED INSIDE): 125
> ARRAY ELEMENT: 80
> SCRIPT LOCAL: 38
> 
> ANALYSIS:
> 
> The above results are run in the IDE which is important to mention because the message path in the IDE is typically longer than that in standalones (as the all extension libraries are loaded, and the IDE inserts its own front/back/stacks into the message path).
> 
> Accessing custom properties with messages locked is nearly 10x faster than without (again that multiplier will be vary with the length of the message path).
> 
> Using lock/unlock messages for every custom property access has a (quite negligible) 10% overhead - and the message path overhead (in the IDE) is about 40% of the total (the array element fetch will be the rest).
> 
> Accessing a script local is
>  - about 50x faster than accessing a custom property when messages are sent
>  - about 3x faster than accessing a custom property when messages are not sent
>  - about 2x faster than accessing an array element
> 
> Just to reiterate - these figures are for 1,000,000 accesses done in a tight loop (in the IDE). If you do it for (say) 1000 iterations then the differences are within the margin of error of measuring a millisecond.
> 
> Overall, my suggestion would be probably to do a combination of both - if you are only reading from a custom property in a given loop, but are doing so multiple times for the same property (and the loop actually has a very high number of iterations!) then fetch into a local variable before the loop and then use that value (the same, to be fair, is true of calling functions which return fixed values and accessing array elements - especially ones on paths longer than one).
> 
> Hope this helps,
> 
> Mark.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Build Amazing Things
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From paul at researchware.com  Fri Dec 15 10:53:42 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2023 10:53:42 -0500
Subject: Which is faster...
In-Reply-To: <38212f935bbe92a232d82be36e50a603@livecode.com>
References: <719ea94e-6473-4ce2-a992-8bc371c8c446@researchware.com>
 <38212f935bbe92a232d82be36e50a603@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <f1634811-971b-4c16-b380-422e439eda1b@researchware.com>

And that is THE DEFINITIVE answer!

Wow! Thank you.

On 12/15/2023 10:00 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:
> On 2023-12-14 21:22, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
>> Which is faster or more efficient (from an engine performance 
>> perspective)?
>>
>> To retrieve an array from a property?
>> As in:
>> command someHandler -- in an objects script
>>   get the cMyArray from me -- cMyArray is some multi-dimensional array
>>   ...
>> end someHandler
>>
>> OR
>>
>> To retrieve an array from a script local variable?
>> As in:
>> local sMyArray -- script local variable in some objects script
>>
>> command someHandler -- in an objects script
>>   get sMyArray
>>   ...
>> end someHandler
>>
>> Anyone know?
>
> Fetching a value directly from a variable will always be faster than 
> any other method - as it essentially reduces to fetching or storing a 
> value from a (integer indexed) table.
>
> In contrast, fetching a custom property will require a message send 
> unless lock messages is set, and then an array lookup (to actually get 
> the property's value).
>
> Custom property sets are stored using the same data structure 
> internally as livecode arrays so getting `the cMyArray of me` 
> eventually reduces to the same as 
> objectsCurrentPropertySet["cMyArray"] - the latter lookup is more work 
> than just fetching a value from an internal table.
>
> UPSHOT:
>
> Fetching a value directly from a variable is a constant time operation.
>
> If lock messages is false, then the time it takes to fetch a custom 
> property value will be somewhat proportional to the length of the 
> message path from the point of view of the object you are accessing - 
> i.e. how many frontscripts, backscripts, stacks in use, and parent 
> objects/behaviors the object has.
>
> If lock messages is true, then the time it takes to fetch a custom 
> property value will be pretty much the same as doing an LC array key 
> lookup.
>
> Now whether or not this actually matters in any one case will largely 
> depend on how often such access is being done - if its a few times in 
> the context of UI-related code then it probably won't be appreciable; 
> if, however, you are fetching a custom property 100000's of times in a 
> tight loop and the rest of the loop is only doing small amounts of 
> work, you'll definitely notice a difference.
>
> SIMPLE BENCHMARK:
>
> ```
>
> on mouseUp
> local sMyArray
>
> on mouseUp
>    set the cMyArray of me to [ 1, 2, 3 ]
>    put empty
>
>    local tTime
>    put the milliseconds into tTime
>    repeat 1000000 times
>       get the cMyArray of me
>    end repeat
>    put "CUSTOM PROP:" && the milliseconds - tTime & return after msg
>
>    put the milliseconds into tTime
>    lock messages
>    repeat 1000000 times
>       get the cMyArray of me
>    end repeat
>    unlock messages
>    put "CUSTOM PROP (LOCKED OUTSIDE):" && the milliseconds - tTime & 
> return after msg
>
>    put the milliseconds into tTime
>    repeat 1000000 times
>       lock messages
>       get the cMyArray of me
>       unlock messages
>    end repeat
>    put "CUSTOM PROP (LOCKED INSIDE):" && the milliseconds - tTime & 
> return after msg
>
>    local tMyProps
>    put [ 1, 2, 3 ] into tMyProps["cMyArray"]
>    put the milliseconds into tTime
>    repeat 1000000 times
>       get sMyArray["cMyArray"]
>    end repeat
>    put "ARRAY ELEMENT:" && the milliseconds - tTime & return after msg
>
>    put the milliseconds into tTime
>    lock messages
>    repeat 1000000 times
>       get sMyArray
>    end repeat
>    unlock messages
>    put "SCRIPT LOCAL:" && the milliseconds - tTime & return after msg
> end mouseUp
> end mouseUp
> ```
>
> RESULTS (1 million iterations):
>
> CUSTOM PROP: 2006
> CUSTOM PROP (LOCKED OUTSIDE): 116
> CUSTOM PROP (LOCKED INSIDE): 125
> ARRAY ELEMENT: 80
> SCRIPT LOCAL: 38
>
> ANALYSIS:
>
> The above results are run in the IDE which is important to mention 
> because the message path in the IDE is typically longer than that in 
> standalones (as the all extension libraries are loaded, and the IDE 
> inserts its own front/back/stacks into the message path).
>
> Accessing custom properties with messages locked is nearly 10x faster 
> than without (again that multiplier will be vary with the length of 
> the message path).
>
> Using lock/unlock messages for every custom property access has a 
> (quite negligible) 10% overhead - and the message path overhead (in 
> the IDE) is about 40% of the total (the array element fetch will be 
> the rest).
>
> Accessing a script local is
>   - about 50x faster than accessing a custom property when messages 
> are sent
>   - about 3x faster than accessing a custom property when messages are 
> not sent
>   - about 2x faster than accessing an array element
>
> Just to reiterate - these figures are for 1,000,000 accesses done in a 
> tight loop (in the IDE). If you do it for (say) 1000 iterations then 
> the differences are within the margin of error of measuring a 
> millisecond.
>
> Overall, my suggestion would be probably to do a combination of both - 
> if you are only reading from a custom property in a given loop, but 
> are doing so multiple times for the same property (and the loop 
> actually has a very high number of iterations!) then fetch into a 
> local variable before the loop and then use that value (the same, to 
> be fair, is true of calling functions which return fixed values and 
> accessing array elements - especially ones on paths longer than one).
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Mark.
>



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Dec 15 11:03:55 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2023 16:03:55 +0000
Subject: Which is faster...
In-Reply-To: <38212f935bbe92a232d82be36e50a603@livecode.com>
References: <719ea94e-6473-4ce2-a992-8bc371c8c446@researchware.com>
 <38212f935bbe92a232d82be36e50a603@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <9094107A-B464-42BC-8062-09F91E73309D@iotecdigital.com>

Good point. I always put data I intend to work on in a local variable anyway so it becomes easier to debug. As far as 1,000,000 iterations, I cannot imagine what anyone developing in Livecode who would want to do that inline with any other process. But then I failed 6th grade math, sooo….. there’s that.

Bob S


<snip>

On Dec 15, 2023, at 7:00 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

Overall, my suggestion would be probably to do a combination of both - if you are only reading from a custom property in a given loop, but are doing so multiple times for the same property (and the loop actually has a very high number of iterations!) then fetch into a local variable before the loop and then use that value (the same, to be fair, is true of calling functions which return fixed values and accessing array elements - especially ones on paths longer than one).

Hope this helps,

Mark.

--
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com<mailto:mark at livecode.com> ~ http://www.livecode.com/


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Dec 15 11:21:24 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2023 16:21:24 +0000
Subject: Which is faster...
In-Reply-To: <38212f935bbe92a232d82be36e50a603@livecode.com>
References: <719ea94e-6473-4ce2-a992-8bc371c8c446@researchware.com>
 <38212f935bbe92a232d82be36e50a603@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <D3D8FEBA-DC09-424C-BFA9-45C6179993AA@iotecdigital.com>

Ah! Another mystery solved. My app runs as a standalone considerably faster that in the IDE.

Bob S


On Dec 15, 2023, at 7:00 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

The above results are run in the IDE which is important to mention because the message path in the IDE is typically longer than that in standalones (as the all extension libraries are loaded, and the IDE inserts its own front/back/stacks into the message path).


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Dec 15 11:44:25 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2023 16:44:25 +0000
Subject: addData in Datagrids
Message-ID: <CEA32E84-0E35-47CF-993F-7E4B98B66C25@iotecdigital.com>

Hi all. 

Datagrids have a command called addData which adds a line to the end of a datagrid. It returns the line number. 

Afterwards I ought to be able to do this”

...
Set the dghilitedIndex of me to tFoundIndex — this is a valid integer
Put the dgDataOfIndex [tFoundIndex] of me into tMyArrayA
…

HOWEVER…

tMyArrayA is empty! How can that be??? I quit Livecode and tested this in a new stack so it’s not any of my code doing ths. 

Bob S


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Dec 15 11:49:28 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2023 16:49:28 +0000
Subject: addData in Datagrids
In-Reply-To: <CEA32E84-0E35-47CF-993F-7E4B98B66C25@iotecdigital.com>
References: <CEA32E84-0E35-47CF-993F-7E4B98B66C25@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <87F8772E-3D95-49EB-A1DF-C14F8A4BFA77@iotecdigital.com>

NVM. Apparently I have to send an array as an argument. Odd, it seems like it ought to create a new record with its own array structure. 

Bob S


> On Dec 15, 2023, at 8:44 AM, Bob Sneidar <bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi all. 
> 
> Datagrids have a command called addData which adds a line to the end of a datagrid. It returns the line number. 
> 
> Afterwards I ought to be able to do this”
> 
> ...
> Set the dghilitedIndex of me to tFoundIndex — this is a valid integer
> Put the dgDataOfIndex [tFoundIndex] of me into tMyArrayA
> …
> 
> HOWEVER…
> 
> tMyArrayA is empty! How can that be??? I quit Livecode and tested this in a new stack so it’s not any of my code doing ths. 
> 
> Bob S
> 


From tom at makeshyft.com  Fri Dec 15 12:17:16 2023
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2023 12:17:16 -0500
Subject: unable to unfold arrays in debugger?
Message-ID: <CAPzQJL+BWTSgARZsP2=6pmNECpf9wdqSWyHFuEgJTde7KgmV-A@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Peeps,

I'm having a strange experience where while debugging, I click on the arrow
to unfold array variables in the debugger, and nothing happens.
Once the debugger gets into this state, I must leave the card and come back.
it begins as soon as the debugger starts, but remains after the debugger
has stopped.  Now I have to leave the card/
When I come back to the card, the array variables unfold as expected until
the debugger starts again.
It seems to happen only on 1 particular card and no other.

Sigh.
How can I figure this out?
Has anyone ever experienced this?

Thanks,

Tom

From tom at makeshyft.com  Fri Dec 15 12:31:41 2023
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2023 12:31:41 -0500
Subject: unable to unfold arrays in debugger?
In-Reply-To: <CAPzQJL+BWTSgARZsP2=6pmNECpf9wdqSWyHFuEgJTde7KgmV-A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPzQJL+BWTSgARZsP2=6pmNECpf9wdqSWyHFuEgJTde7KgmV-A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPzQJL+NUnyMzXQaEqNCVYOLR00vvGRTwY_drO=kNVQLpCnkBA@mail.gmail.com>

Hmmm, I just discovered that while this state is occurring, unfolding
Project Browser groups also does not work.

On Fri, Dec 15, 2023 at 12:17 PM Tom Glod <tom at makeshyft.com> wrote:

> Hey Peeps,
>
> I'm having a strange experience where while debugging, I click on the
> arrow to unfold array variables in the debugger, and nothing happens.
> Once the debugger gets into this state, I must leave the card and come
> back.
> it begins as soon as the debugger starts, but remains after the debugger
> has stopped.  Now I have to leave the card/
> When I come back to the card, the array variables unfold as expected until
> the debugger starts again.
> It seems to happen only on 1 particular card and no other.
>
> Sigh.
> How can I figure this out?
> Has anyone ever experienced this?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tom
>

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Dec 15 13:18:52 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2023 12:18:52 -0600
Subject: Which is faster...
In-Reply-To: <38212f935bbe92a232d82be36e50a603@livecode.com>
References: <719ea94e-6473-4ce2-a992-8bc371c8c446@researchware.com>
 <38212f935bbe92a232d82be36e50a603@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <18c6eb3e2e0.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

I asked this back in the early MetaCard days and received a one word 
answer: "variables". It's nice to know the reason behind it, and that it 
hasn't changed.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On December 15, 2023 9:01:34 AM Mark Waddingham via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> Fetching a value directly from a variable will always be faster than any
> other method - as it essentially reduces to fetching or storing a value
> from a (integer indexed) table.




From klaus at major-k.de  Sat Dec 16 09:51:33 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2023 15:51:33 +0100
Subject: tsneterr: (3) URL using bad/illegal format or missing URL
Message-ID: <CF01FEB1-782D-4316-9328-FDF363428641@major-k.de>

Hi friends,

I am trying to upload a (not so long) urlencoded text list
to my server, but get the tsNet error as in the subject.

In the form of:
...
## Remove spaces etc.
put clean_name(tSetlist) into tDateiname
put "whatever" & CR & urlencode(fld "setlist") into tInhalt
put "https://www.MYSERVER.de/setlists.lc?name=" & tDateiname & "&setlist=" & tInhalt into tUrl
...

The LC server script:
-------------------------------------
<?lc
	put $_GET["name"] into tName
	put $_GET["setlist"] into tSetList
	put "OK" into tAntwort
	try
		put tSetList into url("file:" & tName)
	catch tProblem
		put tProblem into tAntwort
	end try
	put tAntwort	
?>
----------------------------------------

The error comes from LC and NOT from the server, tAnwort = EMPTY!

The URL is definitively correct!
Is the urlencoded string in tInhalt too long for a parameter?
Or is a CR in that parameter not a good idea?

Any hints very appreciated, thanks in advance.


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From klaus at major-k.de  Sat Dec 16 10:50:49 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2023 16:50:49 +0100
Subject: tsneterr: (3) URL using bad/illegal format or missing URL
In-Reply-To: <CF01FEB1-782D-4316-9328-FDF363428641@major-k.de>
References: <CF01FEB1-782D-4316-9328-FDF363428641@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <80CAECD4-AE24-4E0F-9424-9331E52B3BED@major-k.de>

Followup:
I checked fo "illegal" character like @ ' etc., still no joy.
This has been working two weeks ago!

> Am 16.12.2023 um 15:51 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi friends,
> 
> I am trying to upload a (not so long) urlencoded text list
> to my server, but get the tsNet error as in the subject.
> 
> In the form of:
> ...
> ## Remove spaces etc.
> put clean_name(tSetlist) into tDateiname
> put "whatever" & CR & urlencode(fld "setlist") into tInhalt
> put "https://www.MYSERVER.de/setlists.lc?name=" & tDateiname & "&setlist=" & tInhalt into tUrl
> ...
> 
> The LC server script:
> -------------------------------------
> <?lc
> 	put $_GET["name"] into tName
> 	put $_GET["setlist"] into tSetList
> 	put "OK" into tAntwort
> 	try
> 		put tSetList into url("file:" & tName)
> 	catch tProblem
> 		put tProblem into tAntwort
> 	end try
> 	put tAntwort	
> ?>
> ----------------------------------------
> 
> The error comes from LC and NOT from the server, tAnwort = EMPTY!
> 
> The URL is definitively correct!
> Is the urlencoded string in tInhalt too long for a parameter?
> Or is a CR in that parameter not a good idea?
> 
> Any hints very appreciated, thanks in advance.
> 
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From klaus at major-k.de  Sat Dec 16 11:37:29 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2023 17:37:29 +0100
Subject: tsneterr: (3) URL using bad/illegal format or missing URL
In-Reply-To: <80CAECD4-AE24-4E0F-9424-9331E52B3BED@major-k.de>
References: <CF01FEB1-782D-4316-9328-FDF363428641@major-k.de>
 <80CAECD4-AE24-4E0F-9424-9331E52B3BED@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <AF2A8EEB-A20C-44C7-8739-C581E955E3B1@major-k.de>

Should I use a different format to pass the CR delimited list to the LC script?
If yes, which one?

> Am 16.12.2023 um 16:50 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Followup:
> I checked fo "illegal" character like @ ' etc., still no joy.
> This has been working two weeks ago!
> 
>> Am 16.12.2023 um 15:51 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Hi friends,
>> 
>> I am trying to upload a (not so long) urlencoded text list
>> to my server, but get the tsNet error as in the subject.
>> 
>> In the form of:
>> ...
>> ## Remove spaces etc.
>> put clean_name(tSetlist) into tDateiname
>> put "whatever" & CR & urlencode(fld "setlist") into tInhalt
>> put "https://www.MYSERVER.de/setlists.lc?name=" & tDateiname & "&setlist=" & tInhalt into tUrl
>> ...
>> 
>> The LC server script:
>> -------------------------------------
>> <?lc
>> 	put $_GET["name"] into tName
>> 	put $_GET["setlist"] into tSetList
>> 	put "OK" into tAntwort
>> 	try
>> 		put tSetList into url("file:" & tName)
>> 	catch tProblem
>> 		put tProblem into tAntwort
>> 	end try
>> 	put tAntwort	
>> ?>
>> ----------------------------------------
>> 
>> The error comes from LC and NOT from the server, tAnwort = EMPTY!
>> 
>> The URL is definitively correct!
>> Is the urlencoded string in tInhalt too long for a parameter?
>> Or is a CR in that parameter not a good idea?
>> 
>> Any hints very appreciated, thanks in advance.
>> 
>> 
>> Best
>> 
>> Klaus
>> --
>> Klaus Major
>> https://www.major-k.de
>> https://www.major-k.de/bass
>> klaus at major-k.de
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com  Sat Dec 16 13:43:02 2023
From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal)
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2023 19:43:02 +0100
Subject: Should I upgrade to Xcode 15.0 or 15.1?
Message-ID: <A9C3AAA8-3DDE-4697-9FA3-33868C1AB5CF@gmail.com>

Hi all,

I’ve just taken the step to MacOS Sonoma (14.2), and now intend to upgrade Xcode from 14.x to 15. 
But I'm unsure of which version to go for, as the latest LC release notes say Xcode 15.0 and LC is usually quite picky about it.
I don’t want to download and install all the gigabytes of Xcode 15.1 (which is the latest) just to discover that I really need 15.0

Actually, the release notes don’t even mention MacOS 14.2 as a valid version for iOS deployment, so an additional question is if I’ve already burnt that bridge by going Sonoma, until LC catches up…?

Please advise. :)

/Andreas

From paul at researchware.com  Sat Dec 16 13:54:53 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2023 13:54:53 -0500
Subject: Should I upgrade to Xcode 15.0 or 15.1?
In-Reply-To: <A9C3AAA8-3DDE-4697-9FA3-33868C1AB5CF@gmail.com>
References: <A9C3AAA8-3DDE-4697-9FA3-33868C1AB5CF@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43442429-7afd-4ecb-ae09-3ddb880658e2@researchware.com>

For the purposes of notarization of macOS apps, I have seen no 
difference between Xcode 15 and 15.1 under Sonoma on a macBook Air (M1 
processor)

I don't developer iOS apps though, nor do I use Xcode for anything other 
than code signing, notarization, and stapling of macOS desktop apps


On 12/16/2023 1:43 PM, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Ive just taken the step to MacOS Sonoma (14.2), and now intend to upgrade Xcode from 14.x to 15.
> But I'm unsure of which version to go for, as the latest LC release notes say Xcode 15.0 and LC is usually quite picky about it.
> I dont want to download and install all the gigabytes of Xcode 15.1 (which is the latest) just to discover that I really need 15.0
>
> Actually, the release notes dont even mention MacOS 14.2 as a valid version for iOS deployment, so an additional question is if Ive already burnt that bridge by going Sonoma, until LC catches up?
>
> Please advise. :)
>
> /Andreas
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Sat Dec 16 17:29:10 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2023 23:29:10 +0100
Subject: tsneterr: (3) URL using bad/illegal format or missing URL
In-Reply-To: <AF2A8EEB-A20C-44C7-8739-C581E955E3B1@major-k.de>
References: <CF01FEB1-782D-4316-9328-FDF363428641@major-k.de>
 <80CAECD4-AE24-4E0F-9424-9331E52B3BED@major-k.de>
 <AF2A8EEB-A20C-44C7-8739-C581E955E3B1@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <8F267754-AA33-43F3-9715-73C2B54ACC37@m-r-d.de>

Hello Klaus,

You could try to post the data as a file  to the server. There is an array $_files in Livecode server available, which handles the file uploads.

Regards,
Matthias

> Am 16.12.2023 um 17:37 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Should I use a different format to pass the CR delimited list to the LC script?
> If yes, which one?
> 
>> Am 16.12.2023 um 16:50 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Followup:
>> I checked fo "illegal" character like @ ' etc., still no joy.
>> This has been working two weeks ago!
>> 
>>> Am 16.12.2023 um 15:51 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> Hi friends,
>>> 
>>> I am trying to upload a (not so long) urlencoded text list
>>> to my server, but get the tsNet error as in the subject.
>>> 
>>> In the form of:
>>> ...
>>> ## Remove spaces etc.
>>> put clean_name(tSetlist) into tDateiname
>>> put "whatever" & CR & urlencode(fld "setlist") into tInhalt
>>> put "https://www.MYSERVER.de/setlists.lc?name=" & tDateiname & "&setlist=" & tInhalt into tUrl
>>> ...
>>> 
>>> The LC server script:
>>> -------------------------------------
>>> <?lc
>>> 	put $_GET["name"] into tName
>>> 	put $_GET["setlist"] into tSetList
>>> 	put "OK" into tAntwort
>>> 	try
>>> 		put tSetList into url("file:" & tName)
>>> 	catch tProblem
>>> 		put tProblem into tAntwort
>>> 	end try
>>> 	put tAntwort	
>>> ?>
>>> ----------------------------------------
>>> 
>>> The error comes from LC and NOT from the server, tAnwort = EMPTY!
>>> 
>>> The URL is definitively correct!
>>> Is the urlencoded string in tInhalt too long for a parameter?
>>> Or is a CR in that parameter not a good idea?
>>> 
>>> Any hints very appreciated, thanks in advance.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Best
>>> 
>>> Klaus
>>> --
>>> Klaus Major
>>> https://www.major-k.de
>>> https://www.major-k.de/bass
>>> klaus at major-k.de
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> --
>> Klaus Major
>> https://www.major-k.de
>> https://www.major-k.de/bass
>> klaus at major-k.de
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From klaus at major-k.de  Sun Dec 17 04:18:03 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2023 10:18:03 +0100
Subject: tsneterr: (3) URL using bad/illegal format or missing URL
In-Reply-To: <8F267754-AA33-43F3-9715-73C2B54ACC37@m-r-d.de>
References: <CF01FEB1-782D-4316-9328-FDF363428641@major-k.de>
 <80CAECD4-AE24-4E0F-9424-9331E52B3BED@major-k.de>
 <AF2A8EEB-A20C-44C7-8739-C581E955E3B1@major-k.de>
 <8F267754-AA33-43F3-9715-73C2B54ACC37@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <E2D774CE-00B7-439D-BD8A-8BE88BEC168D@major-k.de>

Hi Matthias,

> Am 16.12.2023 um 23:29 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hello Klaus,
> 
> You could try to post the data as a file  to the server. There is an array $_files in Livecode server available, which handles the file uploads.

ah, sounds promising, thank you! :-)
I wanted to post the list directly from an LC field, but can surely store its content to a temp file.

But how is the syntax in my case?
...
put clean_name(tSetlist) into tDateiname 
## = filename on server

## put "whatever" & CR & urlencode(fld "setlist") into tInhalt
put "https://www.MYSERVER.de/setlists.lc?name=" & tDateiname & "&setlist=" & url("file:" & path to file") into tURL #?
## Nothing in the dictionary about this
...

> Regards,
> Matthias

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From alex at tweedly.net  Sun Dec 17 06:22:30 2023
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2023 11:22:30 +0000
Subject: tsneterr: (3) URL using bad/illegal format or missing URL
In-Reply-To: <CF01FEB1-782D-4316-9328-FDF363428641@major-k.de>
References: <CF01FEB1-782D-4316-9328-FDF363428641@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <537b8d15-8913-4d8a-9f88-707cf0eb01fa@tweedly.net>


On 16/12/2023 14:51, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi friends,
>
> I am trying to upload a (not so long) urlencoded text list
> to my server, but get the tsNet error as in the subject.
>
> In the form of:
> ...
> ## Remove spaces etc.
> put clean_name(tSetlist) into tDateiname
> put "whatever" & CR & urlencode(fld "setlist") into tInhalt
> put "https://www.MYSERVER.de/setlists.lc?name=" & tDateiname & "&setlist=" & tInhalt into tUrl
> ...
> ...
>
> The error comes from LC and NOT from the server, tAnwort = EMPTY!
>
> The URL is definitively correct!
> Is the urlencoded string in tInhalt too long for a parameter?
> Or is a CR in that parameter not a good idea?

The CR in the parameter is a bad idea.

Instead of

put "whatever" & CR & urlencode(fld "setlist") into tInhalt

would you not be better doing

put urlencode("whatever" &CR & fld "setlist") into tInhalt


(I can't reproduce the error here, so I can't be sure if this fixes it 
or not - but the CR in the url is definitely a bad idea).


Alex.




From klaus at major-k.de  Sun Dec 17 06:33:53 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2023 12:33:53 +0100
Subject: tsneterr: (3) URL using bad/illegal format or missing URL
In-Reply-To: <537b8d15-8913-4d8a-9f88-707cf0eb01fa@tweedly.net>
References: <CF01FEB1-782D-4316-9328-FDF363428641@major-k.de>
 <537b8d15-8913-4d8a-9f88-707cf0eb01fa@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <ECEE4A71-32B6-4F3D-B075-91A7B4FF520B@major-k.de>

Hi Alex,

> Am 17.12.2023 um 12:22 schrieb Alex Tweedly via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> 
> On 16/12/2023 14:51, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hi friends,
>> 
>> I am trying to upload a (not so long) urlencoded text list
>> to my server, but get the tsNet error as in the subject.
>> 
>> In the form of:
>> ...
>> ## Remove spaces etc.
>> put clean_name(tSetlist) into tDateiname
>> put "whatever" & CR & urlencode(fld "setlist") into tInhalt
>> put "https://www.MYSERVER.de/setlists.lc?name=" & tDateiname & "&setlist=" & tInhalt into tUrl
>> ...
>> ...
>> 
>> The error comes from LC and NOT from the server, tAnwort = EMPTY!
>> 
>> The URL is definitively correct!
>> Is the urlencoded string in tInhalt too long for a parameter?
>> Or is a CR in that parameter not a good idea?
> 
> The CR in the parameter is a bad idea.
> 
> Instead of
> put "whatever" & CR & urlencode(fld "setlist") into tInhalt
> would you not be better doing
> put urlencode("whatever" &CR & fld "setlist") into tInhalt
> (I can't reproduce the error here, so I can't be sure if this fixes it or not - but the CR in the url is definitely a bad idea).

YES, that did the trick, thank you very much!
Have a nice sunday!

> Alex.

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Sun Dec 17 06:45:00 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2023 12:45:00 +0100
Subject: tsneterr: (3) URL using bad/illegal format or missing URL
In-Reply-To: <E2D774CE-00B7-439D-BD8A-8BE88BEC168D@major-k.de>
References: <CF01FEB1-782D-4316-9328-FDF363428641@major-k.de>
 <80CAECD4-AE24-4E0F-9424-9331E52B3BED@major-k.de>
 <AF2A8EEB-A20C-44C7-8739-C581E955E3B1@major-k.de>
 <8F267754-AA33-43F3-9715-73C2B54ACC37@m-r-d.de>
 <E2D774CE-00B7-439D-BD8A-8BE88BEC168D@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <AEA6441B-8C97-486E-A5E1-3CDED5BD5BCD@m-r-d.de>

Hello Klaus.

please see the example below. In my example i am posting a zip file with images to a livecode server script

Livecode script

on mouseup
   answer file "Select zip file..."
   if it is empty then exit to top
   put "<file>" & it into tArchive
   if libUrlMultiPartFormData(tForm,"Archive", tArchive) is not empty then
      altlog the long system time & " - error:" & it
   else
      set the httpHeaders to line 1 of tForm 
      altlog the long system time & " - Upload gestartet"
      post line 2 to -1 of tForm to url "https://MYSERVER.COM/upload_bilder.lc"
      put it into  postResult
      set the httpHeaders to empty
      
      switch postResult
         case   postResult begins with "Bildupload fehlgeschlagen" is true
         ## your script for upload error
         break
         case  postResult begins with "Bildupload okay" is true
         ## your script for successful upload
            break
    	end switch
   end if
end mouseup 


Livecode Server script

<?lc
set the errorMode to "inline"
-- check for errors
if $_Files["Archive"][error] is not empty
	then
	-- this output will be used as return value by the mouseup script
		put "Upload-Fehler"  
		
		put the long system time && "- Upload-Fehler - " & $_files["Archive"][error] &return after URL "file:uploaderror.txt"
	else
		put $_Files["Archive"][name] into tFileName
	
       -- check if the correct file was uploaded
	 -- in our case we always  upload a file with same name
	  if tFileName= "bilder_ohne_logo.zip" 
		then 
		-- this output will be used as return value by the mouseup script
			put "Bildupload okay"
			-- here comes the script for processing the uploaded file....
			-- e.g.
			put URL ("binfile:"&tFilename) into URL ("binfile:/home/xxxxxx/public_html/bilder_ohne_logo.zip")			
			exit to top
		end if
?>

I hope there is no error in my example. I simplified my original code for the above example.

In my original version the complete upload and the processing of the uploaded file is automatic w/o user interaction. 
The desktop app creates a zip file and posts that zip file to a Livecode Server script which just handles the upload and then returns a success or failure.
According to the upload script my standalone then calls another script on the server for further processing.


Regards,
Matthias


		

> Am 17.12.2023 um 10:18 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi Matthias,
> 
>> Am 16.12.2023 um 23:29 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Hello Klaus,
>> 
>> You could try to post the data as a file  to the server. There is an array $_files in Livecode server available, which handles the file uploads.
> 
> ah, sounds promising, thank you! :-)
> I wanted to post the list directly from an LC field, but can surely store its content to a temp file.
> 
> But how is the syntax in my case?
> ...
> put clean_name(tSetlist) into tDateiname 
> ## = filename on server
> 
> ## put "whatever" & CR & urlencode(fld "setlist") into tInhalt
> put "https://www.MYSERVER.de/setlists.lc?name=" & tDateiname & "&setlist=" & url("file:" & path to file") into tURL #?
> ## Nothing in the dictionary about this
> ...
> 
>> Regards,
>> Matthias
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From klaus at major-k.de  Sun Dec 17 06:49:31 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2023 12:49:31 +0100
Subject: tsneterr: (3) URL using bad/illegal format or missing URL
In-Reply-To: <AEA6441B-8C97-486E-A5E1-3CDED5BD5BCD@m-r-d.de>
References: <CF01FEB1-782D-4316-9328-FDF363428641@major-k.de>
 <80CAECD4-AE24-4E0F-9424-9331E52B3BED@major-k.de>
 <AF2A8EEB-A20C-44C7-8739-C581E955E3B1@major-k.de>
 <8F267754-AA33-43F3-9715-73C2B54ACC37@m-r-d.de>
 <E2D774CE-00B7-439D-BD8A-8BE88BEC168D@major-k.de>
 <AEA6441B-8C97-486E-A5E1-3CDED5BD5BCD@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <810AA7FE-03C9-49D2-BF81-A652EDDD20D9@major-k.de>

Hi Matthias,

thank you very much!

Since Alex already spotted my problem, I will store this for future reference.

> Am 17.12.2023 um 12:45 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hello Klaus.
> 
> please see the example below. In my example i am posting a zip file with images to a livecode server script
> Livecode script
> on mouseup
>  ...
> I hope there is no error in my example. I simplified my original code for the above example.
> 
> In my original version the complete upload and the processing of the uploaded file is automatic w/o user interaction. 
> The desktop app creates a zip file and posts that zip file to a Livecode Server script which just handles the upload and then returns a success or failure.
> According to the upload script my standalone then calls another script on the server for further processing.
> 
> Regards,
> Matthias

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Sun Dec 17 10:48:22 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2023 10:48:22 -0500
Subject: Should I upgrade to Xcode 15.0 or 15.1?
In-Reply-To: <43442429-7afd-4ecb-ae09-3ddb880658e2@researchware.com>
References: <A9C3AAA8-3DDE-4697-9FA3-33868C1AB5CF@gmail.com>
 <43442429-7afd-4ecb-ae09-3ddb880658e2@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycP+1W+eEX3_SQeHPoP45b3-mgtaYaNm6FTHPBjeY75g4w@mail.gmail.com>

can lc 9.6.11 use both 15 and 15.1?
i've been holding off on updating to sonoma

On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at 1:55 PM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> For the purposes of notarization of macOS apps, I have seen no
> difference between Xcode 15 and 15.1 under Sonoma on a macBook Air (M1
> processor)
>
> I don't developer iOS apps though, nor do I use Xcode for anything other
> than code signing, notarization, and stapling of macOS desktop apps
>
>
> On 12/16/2023 1:43 PM, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I’ve just taken the step to MacOS Sonoma (14.2), and now intend to
> upgrade Xcode from 14.x to 15.
> > But I'm unsure of which version to go for, as the latest LC release
> notes say Xcode 15.0 and LC is usually quite picky about it.
> > I don’t want to download and install all the gigabytes of Xcode 15.1
> (which is the latest) just to discover that I really need 15.0
> >
> > Actually, the release notes don’t even mention MacOS 14.2 as a valid
> version for iOS deployment, so an additional question is if I’ve already
> burnt that bridge by going Sonoma, until LC catches up…?
> >
> > Please advise. :)
> >
> > /Andreas
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From heather at livecode.com  Mon Dec 18 12:11:37 2023
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2023 17:11:37 +0000
Subject: Should I upgrade to Xcode 15.0 or 15.1?
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycP+1W+eEX3_SQeHPoP45b3-mgtaYaNm6FTHPBjeY75g4w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <A9C3AAA8-3DDE-4697-9FA3-33868C1AB5CF@gmail.com>
 <43442429-7afd-4ecb-ae09-3ddb880658e2@researchware.com>
 <CADCoycP+1W+eEX3_SQeHPoP45b3-mgtaYaNm6FTHPBjeY75g4w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E663A1B3-F670-4BDA-A1C9-3088DE36AE0D@livecode.com>

Folks, you should upgrade to Xcode 15.0 not 15.1 - see this table (top FAQ):


https://livecode.com/resources/support/ask-a-question/



Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 17 Dec 2023, at 15:48, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> can lc 9.6.11 use both 15 and 15.1?
> i've been holding off on updating to sonoma
> 
> On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at 1:55 PM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> For the purposes of notarization of macOS apps, I have seen no
>> difference between Xcode 15 and 15.1 under Sonoma on a macBook Air (M1
>> processor)
>> 
>> I don't developer iOS apps though, nor do I use Xcode for anything other
>> than code signing, notarization, and stapling of macOS desktop apps
>> 
>> 
>> On 12/16/2023 1:43 PM, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> I’ve just taken the step to MacOS Sonoma (14.2), and now intend to
>> upgrade Xcode from 14.x to 15.
>>> But I'm unsure of which version to go for, as the latest LC release
>> notes say Xcode 15.0 and LC is usually quite picky about it.
>>> I don’t want to download and install all the gigabytes of Xcode 15.1
>> (which is the latest) just to discover that I really need 15.0
>>> 
>>> Actually, the release notes don’t even mention MacOS 14.2 as a valid
>> version for iOS deployment, so an additional question is if I’ve already
>> burnt that bridge by going Sonoma, until LC catches up…?
>>> 
>>> Please advise. :)
>>> 
>>> /Andreas
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>   and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From paul at researchware.com  Mon Dec 18 12:47:12 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2023 12:47:12 -0500
Subject: Should I upgrade to Xcode 15.0 or 15.1?
In-Reply-To: <E663A1B3-F670-4BDA-A1C9-3088DE36AE0D@livecode.com>
References: <A9C3AAA8-3DDE-4697-9FA3-33868C1AB5CF@gmail.com>
 <43442429-7afd-4ecb-ae09-3ddb880658e2@researchware.com>
 <CADCoycP+1W+eEX3_SQeHPoP45b3-mgtaYaNm6FTHPBjeY75g4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E663A1B3-F670-4BDA-A1C9-3088DE36AE0D@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <55ab9c7d-cd27-4d28-9cd7-57e193c3f30a@researchware.com>

FYI Heather,

The "What are the System Requirements for LiveCode? 
<https://livecode.com/resources/support/ask-a-question/#group_739>" 
table needs an update for current macOS and Windows versions.

On 12/18/2023 12:11 PM, Heather Laine via use-livecode wrote:
> Folks, you should upgrade to Xcode 15.0 not 15.1 - see this table (top FAQ):
>
>
> https://livecode.com/resources/support/ask-a-question/
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Heather
>
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
>
>
>
>> On 17 Dec 2023, at 15:48, Mike Kerner via use-livecode<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>  wrote:
>>
>> can lc 9.6.11 use both 15 and 15.1?
>> i've been holding off on updating to sonoma
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at 1:55PM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>>> For the purposes of notarization of macOS apps, I have seen no
>>> difference between Xcode 15 and 15.1 under Sonoma on a macBook Air (M1
>>> processor)
>>>
>>> I don't developer iOS apps though, nor do I use Xcode for anything other
>>> than code signing, notarization, and stapling of macOS desktop apps
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/16/2023 1:43 PM, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> Ive just taken the step to MacOS Sonoma (14.2), and now intend to
>>> upgrade Xcode from 14.x to 15.
>>>> But I'm unsure of which version to go for, as the latest LC release
>>> notes say Xcode 15.0 and LC is usually quite picky about it.
>>>> I dont want to download and install all the gigabytes of Xcode 15.1
>>> (which is the latest) just to discover that I really need 15.0
>>>> Actually, the release notes dont even mention MacOS 14.2 as a valid
>>> version for iOS deployment, so an additional question is if Ive already
>>> burnt that bridge by going Sonoma, until LC catches up?
>>>> Please advise. :)
>>>>
>>>> /Andreas
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>>
>> -- 
>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
>> On the second day, God created the oceans.
>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>>    and did a little diving.
>> And God said, "This is good."
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com  Mon Dec 18 15:43:58 2023
From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal)
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2023 21:43:58 +0100
Subject: Should I upgrade to Xcode 15.0 or 15.1?
In-Reply-To: <E663A1B3-F670-4BDA-A1C9-3088DE36AE0D@livecode.com>
References: <A9C3AAA8-3DDE-4697-9FA3-33868C1AB5CF@gmail.com>
 <43442429-7afd-4ecb-ae09-3ddb880658e2@researchware.com>
 <CADCoycP+1W+eEX3_SQeHPoP45b3-mgtaYaNm6FTHPBjeY75g4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E663A1B3-F670-4BDA-A1C9-3088DE36AE0D@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <8EDB9DC6-D53C-4209-8786-3008C71BD64A@gmail.com>

Thanks, Heather! I was just about to ask if there didn’t use to be a table available somewhere, where this stuff was sorted out. And there it was! :D

/Andreas

> 18 dec. 2023 kl. 18:11 skrev Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Folks, you should upgrade to Xcode 15.0 not 15.1 - see this table (top FAQ):
> 
> 
> https://livecode.com/resources/support/ask-a-question/
> 
> 
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On 17 Dec 2023, at 15:48, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> can lc 9.6.11 use both 15 and 15.1?
>> i've been holding off on updating to sonoma
>> 
>> On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at 1:55 PM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> For the purposes of notarization of macOS apps, I have seen no
>>> difference between Xcode 15 and 15.1 under Sonoma on a macBook Air (M1
>>> processor)
>>> 
>>> I don't developer iOS apps though, nor do I use Xcode for anything other
>>> than code signing, notarization, and stapling of macOS desktop apps
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 12/16/2023 1:43 PM, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> 
>>>> I’ve just taken the step to MacOS Sonoma (14.2), and now intend to
>>> upgrade Xcode from 14.x to 15.
>>>> But I'm unsure of which version to go for, as the latest LC release
>>> notes say Xcode 15.0 and LC is usually quite picky about it.
>>>> I don’t want to download and install all the gigabytes of Xcode 15.1
>>> (which is the latest) just to discover that I really need 15.0
>>>> 
>>>> Actually, the release notes don’t even mention MacOS 14.2 as a valid
>>> version for iOS deployment, so an additional question is if I’ve already
>>> burnt that bridge by going Sonoma, until LC catches up…?
>>>> 
>>>> Please advise. :)
>>>> 
>>>> /Andreas
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
>> On the second day, God created the oceans.
>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>>  and did a little diving.
>> And God said, "This is good."
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com  Thu Dec 21 08:41:52 2023
From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal)
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2023 14:41:52 +0100
Subject: Should I upgrade to Xcode 15.0 or 15.1?
In-Reply-To: <E663A1B3-F670-4BDA-A1C9-3088DE36AE0D@livecode.com>
References: <A9C3AAA8-3DDE-4697-9FA3-33868C1AB5CF@gmail.com>
 <43442429-7afd-4ecb-ae09-3ddb880658e2@researchware.com>
 <CADCoycP+1W+eEX3_SQeHPoP45b3-mgtaYaNm6FTHPBjeY75g4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E663A1B3-F670-4BDA-A1C9-3088DE36AE0D@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <B0783957-A8D5-42D1-8EB6-AB00891EFF3E@gmail.com>

Just for fun, and because Mermaid is my new toy, I threw together a small web stack that shows the various LC-Xcode-macOS-iOS combinations in a sankey diagram, where you can also change the order of how they are displayed.

I added some Xcode versions that are NOT compatible with LiveCode too, just as extra info (and to get more data points).

I don’t know if it adds any insights beyond what you can simply see in the table Heather linked to, but it was a suitable set of data for the sankey format, and also a proof of concept that running Mermaid code in a browser widget deployed to web works flawlessly. :)

See it here: https://wheninspace.com/LCXcode/

/Andreas



> 18 dec. 2023 kl. 18:11 skrev Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Folks, you should upgrade to Xcode 15.0 not 15.1 - see this table (top FAQ):
> 
> 
> https://livecode.com/resources/support/ask-a-question/
> 
> 
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather



From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Thu Dec 21 09:48:09 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2023 14:48:09 +0000
Subject: Should I upgrade to Xcode 15.0 or 15.1?
In-Reply-To: <B0783957-A8D5-42D1-8EB6-AB00891EFF3E@gmail.com>
References: <A9C3AAA8-3DDE-4697-9FA3-33868C1AB5CF@gmail.com>
 <43442429-7afd-4ecb-ae09-3ddb880658e2@researchware.com>
 <CADCoycP+1W+eEX3_SQeHPoP45b3-mgtaYaNm6FTHPBjeY75g4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E663A1B3-F670-4BDA-A1C9-3088DE36AE0D@livecode.com>
 <B0783957-A8D5-42D1-8EB6-AB00891EFF3E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3E71C1D9-1C95-4C03-A92A-00151803748A@gmail.com>

That does look like fun. Very clever layout. 

> On 21 Dec 2023, at 1:41 pm, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Just for fun, and because Mermaid is my new toy, I threw together a small web stack that shows the various LC-Xcode-macOS-iOS combinations in a sankey diagram, where you can also change the order of how they are displayed.
> 
> I added some Xcode versions that are NOT compatible with LiveCode too, just as extra info (and to get more data points).
> 
> I don’t know if it adds any insights beyond what you can simply see in the table Heather linked to, but it was a suitable set of data for the sankey format, and also a proof of concept that running Mermaid code in a browser widget deployed to web works flawlessly. :)
> 
> See it here: https://wheninspace.com/LCXcode/
> 
> /Andreas
> 
> 
> 
>> 18 dec. 2023 kl. 18:11 skrev Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Folks, you should upgrade to Xcode 15.0 not 15.1 - see this table (top FAQ):
>> 
>> 
>> https://livecode.com/resources/support/ask-a-question/
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Best Regards,
>> 
>> Heather
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Thu Dec 21 10:37:01 2023
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2023 10:37:01 -0500
Subject: Should I upgrade to Xcode 15.0 or 15.1?
In-Reply-To: <B0783957-A8D5-42D1-8EB6-AB00891EFF3E@gmail.com>
References: <A9C3AAA8-3DDE-4697-9FA3-33868C1AB5CF@gmail.com>
 <43442429-7afd-4ecb-ae09-3ddb880658e2@researchware.com>
 <CADCoycP+1W+eEX3_SQeHPoP45b3-mgtaYaNm6FTHPBjeY75g4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E663A1B3-F670-4BDA-A1C9-3088DE36AE0D@livecode.com>
 <B0783957-A8D5-42D1-8EB6-AB00891EFF3E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <003401da3423$8d8b3060$a8a19120$@net>

Very Nice! This should be on the LC Lesson site. Very helpful for new users.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2023 8:42 AM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Andreas Bergendal
Subject: Re: Should I upgrade to Xcode 15.0 or 15.1?

Just for fun, and because Mermaid is my new toy, I threw together a small web stack that shows the various LC-Xcode-macOS-iOS combinations in a sankey diagram, where you can also change the order of how they are displayed.

I added some Xcode versions that are NOT compatible with LiveCode too, just as extra info (and to get more data points).

I don’t know if it adds any insights beyond what you can simply see in the table Heather linked to, but it was a suitable set of data for the sankey format, and also a proof of concept that running Mermaid code in a browser widget deployed to web works flawlessly. :)

See it here: https://wheninspace.com/LCXcode/

/Andreas



> 18 dec. 2023 kl. 18:11 skrev Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Folks, you should upgrade to Xcode 15.0 not 15.1 - see this table (top FAQ):
> 
> 
> https://livecode.com/resources/support/ask-a-question/
> 
> 
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather


_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu Dec 21 14:05:46 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2023 19:05:46 +0000
Subject: Should I upgrade to Xcode 15.0 or 15.1?
In-Reply-To: <B0783957-A8D5-42D1-8EB6-AB00891EFF3E@gmail.com>
References: <A9C3AAA8-3DDE-4697-9FA3-33868C1AB5CF@gmail.com>
 <43442429-7afd-4ecb-ae09-3ddb880658e2@researchware.com>
 <CADCoycP+1W+eEX3_SQeHPoP45b3-mgtaYaNm6FTHPBjeY75g4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E663A1B3-F670-4BDA-A1C9-3088DE36AE0D@livecode.com>
 <B0783957-A8D5-42D1-8EB6-AB00891EFF3E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A3C1D5CC-CC17-4789-ADFC-280A0BE5A4D8@iotecdigital.com>

That’s pretty useful, but also dismaying. I’m kind of glad now, because my slothfulness had me put off any attempt to make an iOS version of Forms Generator. That is all a lot to consider. Not only am I bound to rebuild for every version of my app, I am also bound to rebuild based on every iOS, MacOS and Xcode versions. No thank you please. 

Of course I am not selling my apps so it doesn’t matter very much to me. For those of us that produce commercial apps, it matters very much. 

Bob S


> On Dec 21, 2023, at 5:41 AM, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Just for fun, and because Mermaid is my new toy, I threw together a small web stack that shows the various LC-Xcode-macOS-iOS combinations in a sankey diagram, where you can also change the order of how they are displayed.
> 
> I added some Xcode versions that are NOT compatible with LiveCode too, just as extra info (and to get more data points).
> 
> I don’t know if it adds any insights beyond what you can simply see in the table Heather linked to, but it was a suitable set of data for the sankey format, and also a proof of concept that running Mermaid code in a browser widget deployed to web works flawlessly. :)
> 
> See it here: https://wheninspace.com/LCXcode/
> 
> /Andreas
> 
> 
> 
>> 18 dec. 2023 kl. 18:11 skrev Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Folks, you should upgrade to Xcode 15.0 not 15.1 - see this table (top FAQ):
>> 
>> 
>> https://livecode.com/resources/support/ask-a-question/
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Best Regards,
>> 
>> Heather
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu Dec 21 14:28:01 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2023 19:28:01 +0000
Subject: Should I upgrade to Xcode 15.0 or 15.1?
In-Reply-To: <A3C1D5CC-CC17-4789-ADFC-280A0BE5A4D8@iotecdigital.com>
References: <A9C3AAA8-3DDE-4697-9FA3-33868C1AB5CF@gmail.com>
 <43442429-7afd-4ecb-ae09-3ddb880658e2@researchware.com>
 <CADCoycP+1W+eEX3_SQeHPoP45b3-mgtaYaNm6FTHPBjeY75g4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E663A1B3-F670-4BDA-A1C9-3088DE36AE0D@livecode.com>
 <B0783957-A8D5-42D1-8EB6-AB00891EFF3E@gmail.com>
 <A3C1D5CC-CC17-4789-ADFC-280A0BE5A4D8@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <F44EB8FD-D58D-414C-BE4E-2A896D769335@iotecdigital.com>

BTW I should add that I do not think this is Livecode’s fault. I imagine every developer for every platform has to deal with this, and now it’s all bled over to desktop apps as well. Seems like forced obsolescence to me. Unmaintained apps get deleted from the store, and therefore from end user’s mobile devices. How convenient for Apple. 

Bob S


> On Dec 21, 2023, at 11:05 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> That’s pretty useful, but also dismaying. I’m kind of glad now, because my slothfulness had me put off any attempt to make an iOS version of Forms Generator. That is all a lot to consider. Not only am I bound to rebuild for every version of my app, I am also bound to rebuild based on every iOS, MacOS and Xcode versions. No thank you please. 
> 
> Of course I am not selling my apps so it doesn’t matter very much to me. For those of us that produce commercial apps, it matters very much. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Dec 21, 2023, at 5:41 AM, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Just for fun, and because Mermaid is my new toy, I threw together a small web stack that shows the various LC-Xcode-macOS-iOS combinations in a sankey diagram, where you can also change the order of how they are displayed.
>> 
>> I added some Xcode versions that are NOT compatible with LiveCode too, just as extra info (and to get more data points).
>> 
>> I don’t know if it adds any insights beyond what you can simply see in the table Heather linked to, but it was a suitable set of data for the sankey format, and also a proof of concept that running Mermaid code in a browser widget deployed to web works flawlessly. :)
>> 
>> See it here: https://wheninspace.com/LCXcode/
>> 
>> /Andreas
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> 18 dec. 2023 kl. 18:11 skrev Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> Folks, you should upgrade to Xcode 15.0 not 15.1 - see this table (top FAQ):
>>> 
>>> 
>>> https://livecode.com/resources/support/ask-a-question/
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Best Regards,
>>> 
>>> Heather
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com  Thu Dec 21 15:24:46 2023
From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal)
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2023 21:24:46 +0100
Subject: Should I upgrade to Xcode 15.0 or 15.1?
In-Reply-To: <F44EB8FD-D58D-414C-BE4E-2A896D769335@iotecdigital.com>
References: <A9C3AAA8-3DDE-4697-9FA3-33868C1AB5CF@gmail.com>
 <43442429-7afd-4ecb-ae09-3ddb880658e2@researchware.com>
 <CADCoycP+1W+eEX3_SQeHPoP45b3-mgtaYaNm6FTHPBjeY75g4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E663A1B3-F670-4BDA-A1C9-3088DE36AE0D@livecode.com>
 <B0783957-A8D5-42D1-8EB6-AB00891EFF3E@gmail.com>
 <A3C1D5CC-CC17-4789-ADFC-280A0BE5A4D8@iotecdigital.com>
 <F44EB8FD-D58D-414C-BE4E-2A896D769335@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <A93DFC13-17E1-46F6-8F8E-E7073AFA7824@gmail.com>

It may not be as bad as it looks, as an app can survive several iOS upgrades without needing to be rebuilt. I have an app in AppStore that I think was targeted at iOS 14, and didn’t malfunction until iOS 17 came. I then rebuilt it targeting iOS 16 (as 17 was not yet supported by the LC deployment chain at the time), and it still works like a charm. 

Since that app had been doing fine for two years, all certificates and provisioning profiles and whatnot had expired, so I had to jump through all the Apple hoops again to get a valid build. It then transferred to TestFlight on the first attempt (!!!), and was approved for AppStore by Apple review within 24 hours. 

All in all I had the new version up and pushed to users in three days, after discovering the blocking iOS 17 bug. (I don’t know what the bug was, I was just hoping that rebuilding with a newer LC version for an iOS version closer to 17 would fix it, and thankfully it did.)

Just to share that positive experiences are still possible, even though I totally agree that iOS deployment still IS a hassle.

I enjoy web deployment much more, and LC10 is getting better and better at that.

/Andreas


> 21 dec. 2023 kl. 20:28 skrev Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> BTW I should add that I do not think this is Livecode’s fault. I imagine every developer for every platform has to deal with this, and now it’s all bled over to desktop apps as well. Seems like forced obsolescence to me. Unmaintained apps get deleted from the store, and therefore from end user’s mobile devices. How convenient for Apple. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Dec 21, 2023, at 11:05 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> That’s pretty useful, but also dismaying. I’m kind of glad now, because my slothfulness had me put off any attempt to make an iOS version of Forms Generator. That is all a lot to consider. Not only am I bound to rebuild for every version of my app, I am also bound to rebuild based on every iOS, MacOS and Xcode versions. No thank you please. 
>> 
>> Of course I am not selling my apps so it doesn’t matter very much to me. For those of us that produce commercial apps, it matters very much. 
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>> 
>>> On Dec 21, 2023, at 5:41 AM, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Just for fun, and because Mermaid is my new toy, I threw together a small web stack that shows the various LC-Xcode-macOS-iOS combinations in a sankey diagram, where you can also change the order of how they are displayed.
>>> 
>>> I added some Xcode versions that are NOT compatible with LiveCode too, just as extra info (and to get more data points).
>>> 
>>> I don’t know if it adds any insights beyond what you can simply see in the table Heather linked to, but it was a suitable set of data for the sankey format, and also a proof of concept that running Mermaid code in a browser widget deployed to web works flawlessly. :)
>>> 
>>> See it here: https://wheninspace.com/LCXcode/
>>> 
>>> /Andreas
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 18 dec. 2023 kl. 18:11 skrev Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>> 
>>>> Folks, you should upgrade to Xcode 15.0 not 15.1 - see this table (top FAQ):
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> https://livecode.com/resources/support/ask-a-question/
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Best Regards,
>>>> 
>>>> Heather


From jiml at netrin.com  Thu Dec 21 16:26:56 2023
From: jiml at netrin.com (Jim Lambert)
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2023 13:26:56 -0800
Subject: Should I upgrade to Xcode 15.0 or 15.1?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1703178001.72710.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.1.1703178001.72710.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <105AD7B9-ABE1-476C-BEFF-52EE33C2A6AD@netrin.com>

> Ralph wrote:
> 
> Very Nice! This should be on the LC Lesson site.

++1

Jim Lambert


From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Thu Dec 21 17:18:16 2023
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2023 17:18:16 -0500
Subject: Should I upgrade to Xcode 15.0 or 15.1?
In-Reply-To: <A93DFC13-17E1-46F6-8F8E-E7073AFA7824@gmail.com>
References: <A9C3AAA8-3DDE-4697-9FA3-33868C1AB5CF@gmail.com>
 <43442429-7afd-4ecb-ae09-3ddb880658e2@researchware.com>
 <CADCoycP+1W+eEX3_SQeHPoP45b3-mgtaYaNm6FTHPBjeY75g4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E663A1B3-F670-4BDA-A1C9-3088DE36AE0D@livecode.com>
 <B0783957-A8D5-42D1-8EB6-AB00891EFF3E@gmail.com>
 <A3C1D5CC-CC17-4789-ADFC-280A0BE5A4D8@iotecdigital.com>
 <F44EB8FD-D58D-414C-BE4E-2A896D769335@iotecdigital.com>
 <A93DFC13-17E1-46F6-8F8E-E7073AFA7824@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <005801da345b$9c201ef0$d4605cd0$@net>

I've had the about the same iOS experience. Annoying, yes. Not so bad after doing it once.

I can't believe what you Mac OS developers go though. The only thing I staple is some pine rope on the fireplace mantle.


Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net


-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2023 3:25 PM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Andreas Bergendal
Subject: Re: Should I upgrade to Xcode 15.0 or 15.1?

It may not be as bad as it looks, as an app can survive several iOS upgrades without needing to be rebuilt. I have an app in AppStore that I think was targeted at iOS 14, and didn’t malfunction until iOS 17 came. I then rebuilt it targeting iOS 16 (as 17 was not yet supported by the LC deployment chain at the time), and it still works like a charm. 

Since that app had been doing fine for two years, all certificates and provisioning profiles and whatnot had expired, so I had to jump through all the Apple hoops again to get a valid build. It then transferred to TestFlight on the first attempt (!!!), and was approved for AppStore by Apple review within 24 hours. 

All in all I had the new version up and pushed to users in three days, after discovering the blocking iOS 17 bug. (I don’t know what the bug was, I was just hoping that rebuilding with a newer LC version for an iOS version closer to 17 would fix it, and thankfully it did.)

Just to share that positive experiences are still possible, even though I totally agree that iOS deployment still IS a hassle.

I enjoy web deployment much more, and LC10 is getting better and better at that.

/Andreas


> 21 dec. 2023 kl. 20:28 skrev Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> BTW I should add that I do not think this is Livecode’s fault. I imagine every developer for every platform has to deal with this, and now it’s all bled over to desktop apps as well. Seems like forced obsolescence to me. Unmaintained apps get deleted from the store, and therefore from end user’s mobile devices. How convenient for Apple. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Dec 21, 2023, at 11:05 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> That’s pretty useful, but also dismaying. I’m kind of glad now, because my slothfulness had me put off any attempt to make an iOS version of Forms Generator. That is all a lot to consider. Not only am I bound to rebuild for every version of my app, I am also bound to rebuild based on every iOS, MacOS and Xcode versions. No thank you please. 
>> 
>> Of course I am not selling my apps so it doesn’t matter very much to me. For those of us that produce commercial apps, it matters very much. 
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>> 
>>> On Dec 21, 2023, at 5:41 AM, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Just for fun, and because Mermaid is my new toy, I threw together a small web stack that shows the various LC-Xcode-macOS-iOS combinations in a sankey diagram, where you can also change the order of how they are displayed.
>>> 
>>> I added some Xcode versions that are NOT compatible with LiveCode too, just as extra info (and to get more data points).
>>> 
>>> I don’t know if it adds any insights beyond what you can simply see in the table Heather linked to, but it was a suitable set of data for the sankey format, and also a proof of concept that running Mermaid code in a browser widget deployed to web works flawlessly. :)
>>> 
>>> See it here: https://wheninspace.com/LCXcode/
>>> 
>>> /Andreas
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 18 dec. 2023 kl. 18:11 skrev Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>> 
>>>> Folks, you should upgrade to Xcode 15.0 not 15.1 - see this table (top FAQ):
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> https://livecode.com/resources/support/ask-a-question/
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Best Regards,
>>>> 
>>>> Heather

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use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From alanstenhouse at hotmail.com  Thu Dec 21 20:53:16 2023
From: alanstenhouse at hotmail.com (Alan Stenhouse)
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2023 12:23:16 +1030
Subject: Application disappears unexpectedly (goes into background)
Message-ID: <TYZPR06MB6046B3704555F477F3768B6FA594A@TYZPR06MB6046.apcprd06.prod.outlook.com>

I've got a MacOS LC standalone that opens a stackfile external to the application. Whenever I click inside one of the stack windows which doesn't have current focus, all the stack windows disappear and reappear only when I switch to another application and back again. Activating a stack window by clicking on the window title bar works normally (i.e. does not disappear).

Has anyone else seen this at all? Any suggestions for tracking possible causes?

MacOS Ventura
Laptop M1
LC 10 dp... and LC9.11


Thanks a lot for any pointers!

cheers
Alan

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Dec 22 01:45:53 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2023 00:45:53 -0600
Subject: Application disappears unexpectedly (goes into background)
In-Reply-To: <TYZPR06MB6046B3704555F477F3768B6FA594A@TYZPR06MB6046.apcprd06.prod.outlook.com>
References: <TYZPR06MB6046B3704555F477F3768B6FA594A@TYZPR06MB6046.apcprd06.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <18c9045f4e8.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

Have you done a global search for the word "hide" in the scripts?

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On December 21, 2023 7:55:47 PM Alan Stenhouse via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I've got a MacOS LC standalone that opens a stackfile external to the 
> application. Whenever I click inside one of the stack windows which doesn't 
> have current focus, all the stack windows disappear and reappear only when 
> I switch to another application and back again. Activating a stack window 
> by clicking on the window title bar works normally (i.e. does not disappear).
>
> Has anyone else seen this at all? Any suggestions for tracking possible causes?
>
> MacOS Ventura
> Laptop M1
> LC 10 dp... and LC9.11
>
>
> Thanks a lot for any pointers!
>
> cheers
> Alan
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From craig at starfirelighting.com  Fri Dec 22 08:55:09 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2023 08:55:09 -0500
Subject: Application disappears unexpectedly (goes into background)
In-Reply-To: <18c9045f4e8.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <TYZPR06MB6046B3704555F477F3768B6FA594A@TYZPR06MB6046.apcprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <18c9045f4e8.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <897669BF-AA04-43AA-A5BC-464F7FEA5D16@starfirelighting.com>

Clicking on a titlebar sends no messages to LC, only to the OS, essentially saying “bring me to the front”.

The fact that all the card windows reappear when you do that seems very odd to me. If I hide a stack and then go somewhere else on my computer, that stack does not reappear just because I brought LC back to the front. Hidden stacks stay hidden until explicitly made visible, as they should.

Jacque’s  suggestion seems reasonable, but it seems like a long shot.

Have you tried restarting?

Can’t wait to hear how this (hopefully) resolves.

Craig

> On Dec 22, 2023, at 1:45 AM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Have you done a global search for the word "hide" in the scripts?
> 
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On December 21, 2023 7:55:47 PM Alan Stenhouse via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> I've got a MacOS LC standalone that opens a stackfile external to the application. Whenever I click inside one of the stack windows which doesn't have current focus, all the stack windows disappear and reappear only when I switch to another application and back again. Activating a stack window by clicking on the window title bar works normally (i.e. does not disappear).
>> 
>> Has anyone else seen this at all? Any suggestions for tracking possible causes?
>> 
>> MacOS Ventura
>> Laptop M1
>> LC 10 dp... and LC9.11
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks a lot for any pointers!
>> 
>> cheers
>> Alan
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From Mark at rauterkus.com  Fri Dec 22 10:43:44 2023
From: Mark at rauterkus.com (Mark Rauterkus)
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2023 10:43:44 -0500
Subject: Anyone ever put a token into the Apple Wallet and Play (Android)
 wallet?
Message-ID: <CAGV_Z3BUA37gx419tE_K4rgs3-_vXeFaiS1buMYTMQ-_uV7P_g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Wondering if there is a way to make a LiveCode app that can then generate a
membership card thingie / ticket for inclusion into the wallet of mobile
devices.

???

We need an affordable way to make an ID card. Needs to expire. Verification
doesn't need to be so iron-clad nor block-chain enabled.

Similar commercial app:
https://cuseum.com/

https://passkit.com/
https://help.passkit.com/

Might be more universal to have the membership card in your Apple Wallet or
Google thing on your Android phone.

They charge pennies per card. Then hook it to a backend database.

Wondering if this could be done with LiveCode too?

From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Dec 22 11:30:50 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2023 16:30:50 +0000
Subject: Application disappears unexpectedly (goes into background)
In-Reply-To: <897669BF-AA04-43AA-A5BC-464F7FEA5D16@starfirelighting.com>
References: <TYZPR06MB6046B3704555F477F3768B6FA594A@TYZPR06MB6046.apcprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <18c9045f4e8.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <897669BF-AA04-43AA-A5BC-464F7FEA5D16@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <1E3A2A4B-4E4D-4A49-8D67-8AFA68987F21@iotecdigital.com>

Well, resumeStack would trigger, wouldn’t it? 

Bob S


> On Dec 22, 2023, at 5:55 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Clicking on a titlebar sends no messages to LC, only to the OS, essentially saying “bring me to the front”.
> 
> The fact that all the card windows reappear when you do that seems very odd to me. If I hide a stack and then go somewhere else on my computer, that stack does not reappear just because I brought LC back to the front. Hidden stacks stay hidden until explicitly made visible, as they should.
> 
> Jacque’s  suggestion seems reasonable, but it seems like a long shot.
> 
> Have you tried restarting?
> 
> Can’t wait to hear how this (hopefully) resolves.
> 
> Craig
> 
>> On Dec 22, 2023, at 1:45 AM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Have you done a global search for the word "hide" in the scripts?
>> 
>> --
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>> On December 21, 2023 7:55:47 PM Alan Stenhouse via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I've got a MacOS LC standalone that opens a stackfile external to the application. Whenever I click inside one of the stack windows which doesn't have current focus, all the stack windows disappear and reappear only when I switch to another application and back again. Activating a stack window by clicking on the window title bar works normally (i.e. does not disappear).
>>> 
>>> Has anyone else seen this at all? Any suggestions for tracking possible causes?
>>> 
>>> MacOS Ventura
>>> Laptop M1
>>> LC 10 dp... and LC9.11
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Thanks a lot for any pointers!
>>> 
>>> cheers
>>> Alan
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From craig at starfirelighting.com  Fri Dec 22 11:44:10 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2023 11:44:10 -0500
Subject: Application disappears unexpectedly (goes into background)
In-Reply-To: <1E3A2A4B-4E4D-4A49-8D67-8AFA68987F21@iotecdigital.com>
References: <TYZPR06MB6046B3704555F477F3768B6FA594A@TYZPR06MB6046.apcprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <18c9045f4e8.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <897669BF-AA04-43AA-A5BC-464F7FEA5D16@starfirelighting.com>
 <1E3A2A4B-4E4D-4A49-8D67-8AFA68987F21@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <1C14EF33-B285-4A10-834D-F52035E05C4D@starfirelighting.com>

Bob.

Certainly, and I suppose that would be the place where Jacque's proposed “hide” commands might, er, hide.

Craig

> On Dec 22, 2023, at 11:30 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Well, resumeStack would trigger, wouldn’t it? 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Dec 22, 2023, at 5:55 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Clicking on a titlebar sends no messages to LC, only to the OS, essentially saying “bring me to the front”.
>> 
>> The fact that all the card windows reappear when you do that seems very odd to me. If I hide a stack and then go somewhere else on my computer, that stack does not reappear just because I brought LC back to the front. Hidden stacks stay hidden until explicitly made visible, as they should.
>> 
>> Jacque’s  suggestion seems reasonable, but it seems like a long shot.
>> 
>> Have you tried restarting?
>> 
>> Can’t wait to hear how this (hopefully) resolves.
>> 
>> Craig
>> 
>>> On Dec 22, 2023, at 1:45 AM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Have you done a global search for the word "hide" in the scripts?
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>> On December 21, 2023 7:55:47 PM Alan Stenhouse via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I've got a MacOS LC standalone that opens a stackfile external to the application. Whenever I click inside one of the stack windows which doesn't have current focus, all the stack windows disappear and reappear only when I switch to another application and back again. Activating a stack window by clicking on the window title bar works normally (i.e. does not disappear).
>>>> 
>>>> Has anyone else seen this at all? Any suggestions for tracking possible causes?
>>>> 
>>>> MacOS Ventura
>>>> Laptop M1
>>>> LC 10 dp... and LC9.11
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks a lot for any pointers!
>>>> 
>>>> cheers
>>>> Alan
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From craig at starfirelighting.com  Fri Dec 22 11:46:11 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2023 11:46:11 -0500
Subject: Anyone ever put a token into the Apple Wallet and Play (Android)
 wallet?
In-Reply-To: <CAGV_Z3BUA37gx419tE_K4rgs3-_vXeFaiS1buMYTMQ-_uV7P_g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGV_Z3BUA37gx419tE_K4rgs3-_vXeFaiS1buMYTMQ-_uV7P_g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <67E53A41-1702-40CF-8F76-B926EDD5901F@starfirelighting.com>

Could not help myself from being unhelpful.

I am positive LC can do this, whatever you meant.

Craig

> On Dec 22, 2023, at 10:43 AM, Mark Rauterkus via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Wondering if there is a way to make a LiveCode app that can then generate a
> membership card thingie / ticket for inclusion into the wallet of mobile
> devices.
> 
> ???
> 
> We need an affordable way to make an ID card. Needs to expire. Verification
> doesn't need to be so iron-clad nor block-chain enabled.
> 
> Similar commercial app:
> https://cuseum.com/
> 
> https://passkit.com/
> https://help.passkit.com/
> 
> Might be more universal to have the membership card in your Apple Wallet or
> Google thing on your Android phone.
> 
> They charge pennies per card. Then hook it to a backend database.
> 
> Wondering if this could be done with LiveCode too?
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu Dec 28 14:59:40 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2023 19:59:40 +0000
Subject: PDF Widget and Javascript
Message-ID: <A118EC0F-F83D-43DC-AD6A-11549681EEBB@iotecdigital.com>

Hi all. 

This is a long shot, but is there any kind of PDF gadget in Livecode that can run javascript? I am specifically wanting to generate an FDF file from fillable forms. The javascript is fairly straightforward: 

This.ExportAsFDF(true, false, null)

This will work in a javascript enabled PDF application and will use the currently open PDF fillable document, generating an FDF file named after the PDF name (without the dot3 extension) appended by “_data.fdf” 

It would be quite the luxury to be able to do this in Livecode, otherwise I have to pay for a licensed Pro version (I think they are all subscription based now) and the ONLY thing I need from the Pro version is this function. 

Bob S


From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Fri Dec 29 10:04:52 2023
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2023 10:04:52 -0500
Subject: PDF Widget and JavaScript
In-Reply-To: <A118EC0F-F83D-43DC-AD6A-11549681EEBB@iotecdigital.com>
References: <A118EC0F-F83D-43DC-AD6A-11549681EEBB@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <001301da3a68$6355d430$2a017c90$@net>

The last I knew the JavaScript engine is not implemented in the PDF widget.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Bob Sneidar via use-livecode
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2023 3:00 PM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Bob Sneidar
Subject: PDF Widget and Javascript

Hi all. 

This is a long shot, but is there any kind of PDF gadget in Livecode that can run javascript? I am specifically wanting to generate an FDF file from fillable forms. The javascript is fairly straightforward: 

This.ExportAsFDF(true, false, null)

This will work in a javascript enabled PDF application and will use the currently open PDF fillable document, generating an FDF file named after the PDF name (without the dot3 extension) appended by “_data.fdf” 

It would be quite the luxury to be able to do this in Livecode, otherwise I have to pay for a licensed Pro version (I think they are all subscription based now) and the ONLY thing I need from the Pro version is this function. 

Bob S

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Dec 29 11:38:56 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2023 16:38:56 +0000
Subject: PDF Widget and JavaScript
In-Reply-To: <001301da3a68$6355d430$2a017c90$@net>
References: <A118EC0F-F83D-43DC-AD6A-11549681EEBB@iotecdigital.com>
 <001301da3a68$6355d430$2a017c90$@net>
Message-ID: <CC0F87B4-9E16-42D9-B439-56C1AB8DB227@iotecdigital.com>

Thanks Ralph I figured as much. It’s actually not difficult to recreate from scratch if the structure, header and footer is known. The trouble is the fields. If I had a list of form controls for a given form, I could create one from scratch easily enough. 

The fillable forms have to be saved with an open file action to autofill, and if someone can do that, I suppose they already have the ability to export the fdf file using the javascript console in Acrobat Pro. 

Bob S


> On Dec 29, 2023, at 7:04 AM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> The last I knew the JavaScript engine is not implemented in the PDF widget.
> 
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Bob Sneidar via use-livecode
> Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2023 3:00 PM
> To: How to use LiveCode
> Cc: Bob Sneidar
> Subject: PDF Widget and Javascript
> 
> Hi all. 
> 
> This is a long shot, but is there any kind of PDF gadget in Livecode that can run javascript? I am specifically wanting to generate an FDF file from fillable forms. The javascript is fairly straightforward: 
> 
> This.ExportAsFDF(true, false, null)
> 
> This will work in a javascript enabled PDF application and will use the currently open PDF fillable document, generating an FDF file named after the PDF name (without the dot3 extension) appended by “_data.fdf” 
> 
> It would be quite the luxury to be able to do this in Livecode, otherwise I have to pay for a licensed Pro version (I think they are all subscription based now) and the ONLY thing I need from the Pro version is this function. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Dec 29 17:39:24 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2023 22:39:24 +0000
Subject: Message Sent when Resizing Widgets: Workaround
Message-ID: <974092CF-BF5B-4733-AA36-600C05E9E085@iotecdigital.com>

I have a kind of custom group composed of a segmented widget and a transparent button the exact size of the widget, the purpose of which is to be able to handle messages that are otherwise not sent to the widget. In fact almost NO messages are sent to a widget, a source of some consternation from users of this list. 

There are three issues with this, the first being that if there is a button on top of a widget, then no messages get sent directly from the engine to the widget at all! The second is that if I add more segments or resize the widget, the width of the overlay button also needs to match. The third issue is that if I click on the overlay button, I need to know, as in the case of a mouse click which segment was clicked on. 

To this end I wrote some handlers for the widget and the overlay button which allow you to handle any messages a button might receive and then process them for the widget. This is of course just a basic framework. The important handlers are resizeControl and the getProp clickedTab. 

Unfortunately, and although changing the size of the widget will send the resizeContol message to t he widget, editing the width in the widget’s properties palette does NOT send the message. The upshot is that if you make changes to a widget, you can simply run the resizeControl handler to clean things up. 

In my case I always want the widget segments to be the same size, and I always want the widget to be centered on the card. YMMV. You could get even fancier if you wanted and calculate the formattedWidth of the segment names, add a little air around them, then set the width of the widget to the sum of those, and then the minimum segment widths to those formattedWidths. But manipulating the minimum segment widths to get the correct width for each segment is something I have not fathomed. I wish they had given us a property for the *actual* segment widths. 

For the widget itself I have these handlers: 

on hiliteChanged
   put the hilitedItemNames of me into tTabName
   put the itemNames of me into tTabList
   tabChanged tTabName, tTabList
end hiliteChanged

on tabChanged pTab, pTabList
   -- your code here  
end tabChanged

on resizeControl
   wait until the mouse is up with messages
   put the long id of me into tMyID
   put wordOffset("card", tMyID) +1 into tPos
   put word tPos to -1 of tMyID into tParentCard
   put the width of widget "TabBar" into tWidth
   put tWidth / the itemCount of widget "TabBar" into tSegmentWidth
   
   repeat with i = 1 to the itemCount of widget "TabBar"
      put tSegmentWidth into item i of tSegmentWidths
   end repeat
   
   set the itemMinExtents of widget "TabBar" to tSegmentWidths
   
   -- center the widget left to right
   put the loc of widget "TabBar" into tTabLoc
   put the loc of tParentCard into tCardLoc
   put item 1 of tCardLoc into item 1 of tTabLoc
   set the loc of widget "TabBar" to tTabLoc
   
   -- set the rect of the overlay button to match
   set the rect of button "btnTabOverlay" to the rect of widget "TabBar"
end resizeControl


Then for the overlay button: 

on mouseUp
   put the clickedTab of me into tTab
   set the hilitedItemNames of widget "TabBar" to tTab
end mouseUp

on mouseDoubleUp
   put the clickedTab of me into tTab
   
   -- your code here
end mouseDoubleUp

getProp clickedTab
   put the clickLoc into tClickLoc
   put the itemNames of widget "TabBar" into tTabNames
   put the rect of widget "TabBar" into tTabRect
   put item 3 of tTabRect - item 1 of tTabRect into tTabWidth
   put the itemCount of widget "TabBar" into tTabCount
   put tTabWidth / tTabCount into tSegmentWidth
   
   repeat with i = 1 to tTabCount
      put round(item 1 of tTabRect + (tSegmentWidth * i)) into tSegmentBounds
      
      if item 1 of tClickLoc <= tSegmentBounds then
         put item i of tTabNames into tTab
         exit repeat
      end if
   end repeat
   
   put the itemMinExtents of widget "TabBar" into tExtents
   return tTab
end clickedTab



From paul at researchware.com  Fri Dec 29 17:53:56 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2023 17:53:56 -0500
Subject: Message Sent when Resizing Widgets: Workaround
In-Reply-To: <974092CF-BF5B-4733-AA36-600C05E9E085@iotecdigital.com>
References: <974092CF-BF5B-4733-AA36-600C05E9E085@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <3ad9f85f-3d9a-44c2-8991-dd0483f38dde@researchware.com>

Bob,

This is nice trick (and code) to use an overlayed button to get a widget 
to respond to standard messages. Impressive!

I really think that Livecode Ltd. needs to prioritize adding a set of 
"standard" object messages to every current widget to address these 3 
bugs (and their generalization to all other widgets):
https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=24458
https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=24437
https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=24429

Every widget should be able to handle OR pass  through (just like every 
Livecode field, button, scrollbar, etc.) resizeControl, mouseEnter, 
mouseWithin, mouseLeave, mouseDown, mouseDoubleDown, mouseStillDown, 
mouseUp, mouseDoubleUp, and probably a bunch more.


On 12/29/2023 5:39 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
> I have a kind of custom group composed of a segmented widget and a transparent button the exact size of the widget, the purpose of which is to be able to handle messages that are otherwise not sent to the widget. In fact almost NO messages are sent to a widget, a source of some consternation from users of this list.
>
> There are three issues with this, the first being that if there is a button on top of a widget, then no messages get sent directly from the engine to the widget at all! The second is that if I add more segments or resize the widget, the width of the overlay button also needs to match. The third issue is that if I click on the overlay button, I need to know, as in the case of a mouse click which segment was clicked on.
>
> To this end I wrote some handlers for the widget and the overlay button which allow you to handle any messages a button might receive and then process them for the widget. This is of course just a basic framework. The important handlers are resizeControl and the getProp clickedTab.
>
> Unfortunately, and although changing the size of the widget will send the resizeContol message to t he widget, editing the width in the widgets properties palette does NOT send the message. The upshot is that if you make changes to a widget, you can simply run the resizeControl handler to clean things up.
>
> In my case I always want the widget segments to be the same size, and I always want the widget to be centered on the card. YMMV. You could get even fancier if you wanted and calculate the formattedWidth of the segment names, add a little air around them, then set the width of the widget to the sum of those, and then the minimum segment widths to those formattedWidths. But manipulating the minimum segment widths to get the correct width for each segment is something I have not fathomed. I wish they had given us a property for the *actual* segment widths.
>
> For the widget itself I have these handlers:
>
> on hiliteChanged
>     put the hilitedItemNames of me into tTabName
>     put the itemNames of me into tTabList
>     tabChanged tTabName, tTabList
> end hiliteChanged
>
> on tabChanged pTab, pTabList
>     -- your code here
> end tabChanged
>
> on resizeControl
>     wait until the mouse is up with messages
>     put the long id of me into tMyID
>     put wordOffset("card", tMyID) +1 into tPos
>     put word tPos to -1 of tMyID into tParentCard
>     put the width of widget "TabBar" into tWidth
>     put tWidth / the itemCount of widget "TabBar" into tSegmentWidth
>     
>     repeat with i = 1 to the itemCount of widget "TabBar"
>        put tSegmentWidth into item i of tSegmentWidths
>     end repeat
>     
>     set the itemMinExtents of widget "TabBar" to tSegmentWidths
>     
>     -- center the widget left to right
>     put the loc of widget "TabBar" into tTabLoc
>     put the loc of tParentCard into tCardLoc
>     put item 1 of tCardLoc into item 1 of tTabLoc
>     set the loc of widget "TabBar" to tTabLoc
>     
>     -- set the rect of the overlay button to match
>     set the rect of button "btnTabOverlay" to the rect of widget "TabBar"
> end resizeControl
>
>
> Then for the overlay button:
>
> on mouseUp
>     put the clickedTab of me into tTab
>     set the hilitedItemNames of widget "TabBar" to tTab
> end mouseUp
>
> on mouseDoubleUp
>     put the clickedTab of me into tTab
>     
>     -- your code here
> end mouseDoubleUp
>
> getProp clickedTab
>     put the clickLoc into tClickLoc
>     put the itemNames of widget "TabBar" into tTabNames
>     put the rect of widget "TabBar" into tTabRect
>     put item 3 of tTabRect - item 1 of tTabRect into tTabWidth
>     put the itemCount of widget "TabBar" into tTabCount
>     put tTabWidth / tTabCount into tSegmentWidth
>     
>     repeat with i = 1 to tTabCount
>        put round(item 1 of tTabRect + (tSegmentWidth * i)) into tSegmentBounds
>        
>        if item 1 of tClickLoc <= tSegmentBounds then
>           put item i of tTabNames into tTab
>           exit repeat
>        end if
>     end repeat
>     
>     put the itemMinExtents of widget "TabBar" into tExtents
>     return tTab
> end clickedTab
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Dec 29 18:23:26 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2023 23:23:26 +0000
Subject: Message Sent when Resizing Widgets: Workaround
In-Reply-To: <3ad9f85f-3d9a-44c2-8991-dd0483f38dde@researchware.com>
References: <974092CF-BF5B-4733-AA36-600C05E9E085@iotecdigital.com>
 <3ad9f85f-3d9a-44c2-8991-dd0483f38dde@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <8B20C3AB-F9F1-4A72-831C-F9EACEDBC2C3@iotecdigital.com>

I wholeheartedly agree. But one of the most endearing qualities of Livecode, at least to me is that if something doesn’t work exactly the way I want, I can make something that does. The Datagrid is the offspring of this. I remember days when a lot of devs were clamoring for a table object that actually behaved like a table! What Trevor Devore gave us was a group object that did practically everything that everyone wanted in a table object, and then a bit more! I cannot imagine developing in Livecode now without it. I’m sure it was a collaborative effort, but I think Trevor led the charge. Take a little time and read up on his bio. Pretty incredible.

Bob S


On Dec 29, 2023, at 2:53 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

Every widget should be able to handle OR pass  through (just like every Livecode field, button, scrollbar, etc.) resizeControl, mouseEnter, mouseWithin, mouseLeave, mouseDown, mouseDoubleDown, mouseStillDown, mouseUp, mouseDoubleUp, and probably a bunch more.


On 12/29/2023 5:39 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:



From ahsoftware at sonic.net  Sat Dec 30 18:03:04 2023
From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2023 15:03:04 -0800
Subject: Thanks for all the fish
Message-ID: <43c2b3e7-902f-4d8d-a3f9-71a75cfe50f1@sonic.net>

PowerDebug and PowerTools have now been released into the wild as 
opensource tools (MIT license).
Code is all intact, although the check for update functionality has been 
commented out for obvious reasons.
Have fun.

https://github.com/mwieder/PowerDebug
https://github.com/mwieder/PowerTools

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Sat Dec 30 19:01:30 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2023 00:01:30 +0000
Subject: Thanks for all the fish
In-Reply-To: <43c2b3e7-902f-4d8d-a3f9-71a75cfe50f1@sonic.net>
References: <43c2b3e7-902f-4d8d-a3f9-71a75cfe50f1@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <58D614A1-D14E-4044-90B3-A8DF8F18AF70@iotecdigital.com>

Sooo.  I should drink several pints of beer and eat a couple bags of peanuts (for the salt, I’m gonna need it) because I’m standing next to a galaxy hitchhiker with a ring on his thumb, otherwise I’m screwed? Mmm kay. I don’t need all those excuses. And I have no idea where my towel is. Yeah, I’m screwed. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 30, 2023, at 15:04, Mark Wieder via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> PowerDebug and PowerTools have now been released into the wild as opensource tools (MIT license).
> Code is all intact, although the check for update functionality has been commented out for obvious reasons.
> Have fun.
> 
> https://github.com/mwieder/PowerDebug
> https://github.com/mwieder/PowerTools
> 
> -- 
> Mark Wieder
> ahsoftware at gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

From cszasz at mac.com  Sun Dec 31 09:41:23 2023
From: cszasz at mac.com (Charles Szasz)
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2023 07:41:23 -0700
Subject: Embedded PDFs in Windows Menu
Message-ID: <1F81F2DA-BA59-48CE-B8BE-8997021E3B4E@mac.com>

I have found that a method I use (proposed by LC tech support a few years ago to embed PDFs in a Windows menu (using custom properties) does not work in LC 9+. It does work on a Mac. Anybody have solution for this problem?


Sent from my iPad

From paul at researchware.com  Sun Dec 31 10:16:53 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2023 10:16:53 -0500
Subject: Embedded PDFs in Windows Menu
In-Reply-To: <1F81F2DA-BA59-48CE-B8BE-8997021E3B4E@mac.com>
References: <1F81F2DA-BA59-48CE-B8BE-8997021E3B4E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <64c05a9c-9469-4d1d-8079-49094a3add00@researchware.com>

I'm not sure exactly what you are talking about?

Are you asking about launching a PDF from a menu item under a "Windows" 
menu?

On 12/31/2023 9:41 AM, Charles Szasz via use-livecode wrote:
> I have found that a method I use (proposed by LC tech support a few years ago to embed PDFs in a Windows menu (using custom properties) does not work in LC 9+. It does work on a Mac. Anybody have solution for this problem?
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Sun Dec 31 11:52:29 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe)
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2023 17:52:29 +0100
Subject: Embedded PDFs in Windows Menu
In-Reply-To: <64c05a9c-9469-4d1d-8079-49094a3add00@researchware.com>
References: <64c05a9c-9469-4d1d-8079-49094a3add00@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <92C8E843-8760-4771-BC89-48CC2CF637F9@m-r-d.de>

Paul,

the subject of Charles post is a bit misleading.
The problem does not have to do with the menu.

Charles problem is the following. He stored several PDF files on macOS as custom properties. His program allows the user to save the PDF to hard disk using a menu entry.
The command for creating the PDF is
put the PDFfile1 of this stack into URL “binfile:……..“

When the PDF is saved on macOS the PDF is readable (on Windows and macOS), when the PDF is saved on Windows, a PDF with blank pages is created.

I am not sure, if this maybe has to do with encoding or so?

Regards,
Matthias

Von meinem iPad gesendet
> Am 31.12.2023 um 16:18 schrieb Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> I'm not sure exactly what you are talking about?
> 
> Are you asking about launching a PDF from a menu item under a "Windows" menu?
> 
>> On 12/31/2023 9:41 AM, Charles Szasz via use-livecode wrote:
>> I have found that a method I use (proposed by LC tech support a few years ago to embed PDFs in a Windows menu (using custom properties) does not work in LC 9+. It does work on a Mac. Anybody have solution for this problem?
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From craig at starfirelighting.com  Fri Dec  1 09:04:00 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2023 09:04:00 -0500
Subject: greying out columns in a dataGrid
In-Reply-To: <CANbzFDpc_bWzmCszia=m=E1+228vSPXbSYbgNR-XxJ7hvwo8vQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <986A2C54-DBEA-49F4-A2B8-183A397DA3FB@gmail.com>
 <a5373678-4ae3-4015-9e8d-02d50eae4562@researchware.com>
 <E109CAA8-7494-4AA9-AFD1-DBE12C9551A6@gmail.com>
 <a846df39-296e-404a-bf7d-15cd3cdc32a4@researchware.com>
 <CANbzFDpc_bWzmCszia=m=E1+228vSPXbSYbgNR-XxJ7hvwo8vQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <553CBFB9-5E8A-4DFD-A5B7-0EB03A89204C@starfirelighting.com>

Zyrip.

Almost, and very good, since I do not understand DG’s at all.

I changed your offering to:


on mouseUp

dispatch "DG_ColorColumn" to grp "datagrid 1" with "col 2", "211,211,211"

—srcCopy  —no such command

end mouseUp


on DG_ColorColumn pColName, pColor, yellow

   set the opaque of grp pColName of me to (pColor is not empty)

   set the backcolor of grp pColName of me to pColor

   set the ink of grp 1 of me to blendSrcIn

end DG_ColorColumn



Craig




> On Nov 30, 2023, at 7:46 PM, zryip theSlug via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Hershel,
> 
> A possible solution consists to add this handler in the datagrid group
> script:
> 
> *command* DG_ColorColumn pColName, pColor, pInk
> *  set* the opaque of grp pColName of me to (pColor is not empty)
>  set the backcolor of grp pColName of me to pColor
>  set the ink of grp pColName of me to pInk
> *end* DG_ColorColumn
> 
> Then, call this handler that way:
> 
> *on* mouseUp
>  dispatch "DG_ColorColumn" to grp "datagrid 1" with "col 2", "211,211,211",
> "srcCopy"
> *end* mouseUp
> 
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> On Thu, 30 Nov 2023 at 22:49, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 11/30/2023 4:41 PM, Hershel F via use-livecode wrote:
>>> sorry my mistake. does not have to be greyed out should be a gray color.
>>> or to rephrase the question properly, how the change the color to gray?
>> 
>> Ah! I am pretty sure it can be done, but I do not know how to do it
>> exactly. By guess is that you will probably need to edit the row
>> template to add a "grey" background behind the columns your may want to
>> grey and then for those columns in the Property inspector, create a
>> custom column behavior to show or hide that grey background graphic
>> based on whatever calculation your want.
>> 
>> That is a guess though.
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Zryip TheSlug
> http://www.aslugontheroad.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From klaus at major-k.de  Fri Dec  1 09:10:43 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2023 15:10:43 +0100
Subject: greying out columns in a dataGrid
In-Reply-To: <553CBFB9-5E8A-4DFD-A5B7-0EB03A89204C@starfirelighting.com>
References: <986A2C54-DBEA-49F4-A2B8-183A397DA3FB@gmail.com>
 <a5373678-4ae3-4015-9e8d-02d50eae4562@researchware.com>
 <E109CAA8-7494-4AA9-AFD1-DBE12C9551A6@gmail.com>
 <a846df39-296e-404a-bf7d-15cd3cdc32a4@researchware.com>
 <CANbzFDpc_bWzmCszia=m=E1+228vSPXbSYbgNR-XxJ7hvwo8vQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <553CBFB9-5E8A-4DFD-A5B7-0EB03A89204C@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <8803E50E-95DA-4FD0-89C6-50679E226141@major-k.de>

Hi Craig,

always watch out for LINEBREAKS like here!

> Am 01.12.2023 um 15:04 schrieb Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> on mouseUp
> 
## Needs to be ONE line, see parameters of -> DG_ColorColumn
> ...
> dispatch "DG_ColorColumn" to grp "datagrid 1" with "col 2", "211,211,211", "srcCopy"
> ...
> Craig

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From derek-lc-list at speedbump.io  Sun Dec  3 13:00:03 2023
From: derek-lc-list at speedbump.io (Derek Bump)
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2023 12:00:03 -0600
Subject: Your scripts as a flowchart
In-Reply-To: <5357224F-1A01-4F2E-804A-014467118930@gmail.com>
References: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com>
 <CAKCLKtpqQXm8OwOuhb=2QSTzd+zqFF5fWiWpH0WZ6uxtVuxYRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <18a9f0eaa08.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CAKCLKtofwpfMt7L05z5CbCqA=xeEa3YM3bbodwdv0ZWK3bYBEw@mail.gmail.com>
 <023C9AEA-7B3A-455E-B6DC-18164BBF04B5@gmail.com>
 <CAKCLKtrOSD0O3kvs43Q_mJno4Dkf3e4Rv-JigjunPZJJP_s2pQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKCLKtr7_H9=htuGpOJiM_qOKKHONVimCYFLj2GRsN65jifqWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5357224F-1A01-4F2E-804A-014467118930@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45122269-0cd1-47ff-9dac-bb5c003ca1c4@speedbump.io>

Thank you, Andreas, this is very cool and quite helpful!


Some feedback to pass along for consideration:

1. I keep getting an Error 400 when creating a flowchart, and it seems 
to have something to do with the "Group per handler host" checkbox. If 
you toggle it in the right order, the chart will generate without an error.

2. Clicking any of the buttons to save files is not resulting in 
anything appearing on my Desktop. (Mint 21.2)

3. The teal backgrounds and gray text throughout the UI blends together 
and disappears when I look at it.


I hope this is helpful,

Derek Bump


On 11/30/23 14:45, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Finally I can answer Yes to the question on exporting script flowcharts!
> New version of WIS_ScriptDependencies available:
>
> v1.1.5 (30 Nov 2023)
>
> /Andreas
>


From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com  Sun Dec  3 14:29:14 2023
From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal)
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2023 20:29:14 +0100
Subject: Your scripts as a flowchart
In-Reply-To: <45122269-0cd1-47ff-9dac-bb5c003ca1c4@speedbump.io>
References: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com>
 <CAKCLKtpqQXm8OwOuhb=2QSTzd+zqFF5fWiWpH0WZ6uxtVuxYRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <18a9f0eaa08.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CAKCLKtofwpfMt7L05z5CbCqA=xeEa3YM3bbodwdv0ZWK3bYBEw@mail.gmail.com>
 <023C9AEA-7B3A-455E-B6DC-18164BBF04B5@gmail.com>
 <CAKCLKtrOSD0O3kvs43Q_mJno4Dkf3e4Rv-JigjunPZJJP_s2pQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKCLKtr7_H9=htuGpOJiM_qOKKHONVimCYFLj2GRsN65jifqWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5357224F-1A01-4F2E-804A-014467118930@gmail.com>
 <45122269-0cd1-47ff-9dac-bb5c003ca1c4@speedbump.io>
Message-ID: <C24EEA90-E5E2-4FB8-B0EF-C30DD601FB37@gmail.com>

Thanks for the feedback, Derek!

1. I get an Error 400 when trying for a flowchart of a monster stack with 180+ handlers with many interdependencies. This seems to be due to exceeding the upper limit of what the Mermaid/Kroki services can handle in therms of ”edges”. The graph is simply too complex. Try excluding substacks, or excluding handlers by adding them to the handler exclusion filter field, to reduce ”uninteresting” complexity.
(I tend to exclude mouse*, and commands/functions that are called many times put only do simple things like adding quotes, or utf conversion or something.) 

The "Group per handler host” feature adds complexity to the graph, so using that could also tip it over the error threshold. 
Unfortunately, the error message passed back from Mermaid/Kroki is not very enlightening. 

2. I realise that I have not put in any error catching for the case where the user has not yet chosen a save file destination. Try opening the flowchart settings pane (which should already set a default save path if empty) and click the folder icon to make an active choice. If it still doesn’t work for you then it might be a Linux issue, which unfortunately I’m unable to test.

3. Hmm, I don’t usually use any gray texts. All texts are black, except for a few big buttons that have ”midnight blue” text, which is also the colour of most of the icons. Is something happening to the UI on Linux? It would be interesting to see a screenshot of how it looks for you.

Here’s a screenshot of part of the UI, posted in the LC forum, that shows how it looks on Mac and Windows:
https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=37644&start=75

Best,
Andreas


> 3 dec. 2023 kl. 19:00 skrev Derek Bump via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Thank you, Andreas, this is very cool and quite helpful!
> 
> 
> Some feedback to pass along for consideration:
> 
> 1. I keep getting an Error 400 when creating a flowchart, and it seems to have something to do with the "Group per handler host" checkbox. If you toggle it in the right order, the chart will generate without an error.
> 
> 2. Clicking any of the buttons to save files is not resulting in anything appearing on my Desktop. (Mint 21.2)
> 
> 3. The teal backgrounds and gray text throughout the UI blends together and disappears when I look at it.
> 
> 
> I hope this is helpful,
> 
> Derek Bump
> 
> 
> On 11/30/23 14:45, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> Finally I can answer Yes to the question on exporting script flowcharts!
>> New version of WIS_ScriptDependencies available:
>> 
>> v1.1.5 (30 Nov 2023)
>> 
>> /Andreas


From derek-lc-list at speedbump.io  Sun Dec  3 17:45:32 2023
From: derek-lc-list at speedbump.io (Derek Bump)
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2023 16:45:32 -0600
Subject: Your scripts as a flowchart
In-Reply-To: <C24EEA90-E5E2-4FB8-B0EF-C30DD601FB37@gmail.com>
References: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com>
 <CAKCLKtpqQXm8OwOuhb=2QSTzd+zqFF5fWiWpH0WZ6uxtVuxYRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <18a9f0eaa08.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CAKCLKtofwpfMt7L05z5CbCqA=xeEa3YM3bbodwdv0ZWK3bYBEw@mail.gmail.com>
 <023C9AEA-7B3A-455E-B6DC-18164BBF04B5@gmail.com>
 <CAKCLKtrOSD0O3kvs43Q_mJno4Dkf3e4Rv-JigjunPZJJP_s2pQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKCLKtr7_H9=htuGpOJiM_qOKKHONVimCYFLj2GRsN65jifqWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5357224F-1A01-4F2E-804A-014467118930@gmail.com>
 <45122269-0cd1-47ff-9dac-bb5c003ca1c4@speedbump.io>
 <C24EEA90-E5E2-4FB8-B0EF-C30DD601FB37@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e2432ecf-2c08-4e3c-a4e0-8337b8541f54@speedbump.io>

My apologies, Andreas, I forget about Dark Mode being a bit finicky on 
my daily driver. Purely a personal preference which I've resolved, but I 
dropped the snapshots in the forum if you're still interested. Please 
disregard.

Otherwise I appreciate the quick response. I'm back on track, and will 
drop more on the forum if I find anything :-)

Thank you,

Derek Bump


On 12/3/23 13:29, Andreas Bergendal wrote:
> 3. Hmm, I dont usually use any gray texts. All texts are black, except for a few big buttons that have midnight blue text, which is also the colour of most of the icons. Is something happening to the UI on Linux? It would be interesting to see a screenshot of how it looks for you.
>
> Heres a screenshot of part of the UI, posted in the LC forum, that shows how it looks on Mac and Windows:
> https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=37644&start=75
>
> Best,
> Andreas
>
>
>> 3 dec. 2023 kl. 19:00 skrev Derek Bump via use-livecode<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>
>> Thank you, Andreas, this is very cool and quite helpful!
>>
>>
>> Some feedback to pass along for consideration:
>>
>> 1. I keep getting an Error 400 when creating a flowchart, and it seems to have something to do with the "Group per handler host" checkbox. If you toggle it in the right order, the chart will generate without an error.
>>
>> 2. Clicking any of the buttons to save files is not resulting in anything appearing on my Desktop. (Mint 21.2)
>>
>> 3. The teal backgrounds and gray text throughout the UI blends together and disappears when I look at it.
>>
>>
>> I hope this is helpful,
>>
>> Derek Bump
>>
>>
>> On 11/30/23 14:45, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Finally I can answer Yes to the question on exporting script flowcharts!
>>> New version of WIS_ScriptDependencies available:
>>>
>>> v1.1.5 (30 Nov 2023)
>>>
>>> /Andreas

From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Mon Dec  4 14:14:51 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2023 19:14:51 +0000
Subject: resizeControl wishes...
In-Reply-To: <35050596a67258140d60601085dc16f48c456429@fourthworld.com>
References: <35050596a67258140d60601085dc16f48c456429@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <B67FC474-ED45-4312-9EBC-E211A58BA5BE@iotecdigital.com>

Dang! I thought I was learning a new word!

Bob S


On Nov 30, 2023, at 9:29 AM, ambassador--- via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

it uses the power of the engine to its most efficient, preditable, and robust advangage to put things exactly where you want them.


From hershelflc at gmail.com  Mon Dec  4 19:12:30 2023
From: hershelflc at gmail.com (Hershel F)
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2023 19:12:30 -0500
Subject: greying out columns in a dataGrid
In-Reply-To: <8803E50E-95DA-4FD0-89C6-50679E226141@major-k.de>
References: <986A2C54-DBEA-49F4-A2B8-183A397DA3FB@gmail.com>
 <a5373678-4ae3-4015-9e8d-02d50eae4562@researchware.com>
 <E109CAA8-7494-4AA9-AFD1-DBE12C9551A6@gmail.com>
 <a846df39-296e-404a-bf7d-15cd3cdc32a4@researchware.com>
 <CANbzFDpc_bWzmCszia=m=E1+228vSPXbSYbgNR-XxJ7hvwo8vQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <553CBFB9-5E8A-4DFD-A5B7-0EB03A89204C@starfirelighting.com>
 <8803E50E-95DA-4FD0-89C6-50679E226141@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <487D54F9-E768-4D24-B52A-CF249DB36336@gmail.com>

Good, getting there. thanks. 
just need that the row dividers should  be a different color then the cells.
Hershel


> On Dec 1, 2023, at 9:10 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Craig,
> 
> always watch out for LINEBREAKS like here!
> 
>> Am 01.12.2023 um 15:04 schrieb Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> on mouseUp
>> 
> ## Needs to be ONE line, see parameters of -> DG_ColorColumn
>> ...
>> dispatch "DG_ColorColumn" to grp "datagrid 1" with "col 2", "211,211,211", "srcCopy"
>> ...
>> Craig
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From klaus at major-k.de  Tue Dec  5 11:41:09 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2023 17:41:09 +0100
Subject: Enhancement request for "Circle Avatar" widget.
Message-ID: <EE2718C5-EEE1-40D3-99E8-7D556A458456@major-k.de>

Hi friends,

see subject, I just created an enhencement request for
a round border around (sic! :-) the image inside of 
the widget, that would really make sense.
Not a border of the surrounding rect.

<https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=24447>


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From keith.clarke at me.com  Wed Dec  6 05:00:58 2023
From: keith.clarke at me.com (Keith Clarke)
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2023 10:00:58 +0000
Subject: LiveCode server as OAuth2 client for APIs?
Message-ID: <1B469B5C-D740-4105-9A32-A0C8A61085ED@me.com>

Hi folks,
Does anyone have experience of using OAuth2 with LiveCode server, to log into third-party data sources for API access?
 
I am experimenting with a web based utility app that runs on LiveCode server & RevIgniter and I need to be able to log into a Salesforce.com <http://salesforce.com/> account to pull data into the app via APIs. I’m following the Salesforce Oauth 2.0 Web Server Flow for Web App Integration https://help.salesforce.com/s/articleView?id=sf.remoteaccess_oauth_web_server_flow.htm&type=5 and 

I’ve configured the LiveCode app as a connected app in a Salesforce developer instance, to create a consumer id, with which I can request an authorisation code. This requires a POST to a Salesforce endpoint, which, if successful redirects to a page on the Salesforce authorisation server to provide login credentials. This is where I’m stuck...

The LiveCode OAuth2 library seems to be desktop centric (expecting any redirects via the loopback IP address of 127.0.0.1, rather than a URL); the RevIgniter forms library seems to support posts to URLs within the LiveCode app but not third party URLs; and if I create a LiveCode file to ‘post data to URL tSalesforceAuthURL’ from within RevIgniter, I can’t see any option to follow redirects and so, unsurprisingly, the page URL doesn’t change.

Any advice greatly appreciated.
Best,
Keith      

From rabit at revigniter.com  Wed Dec  6 12:53:07 2023
From: rabit at revigniter.com (Ralf Bitter)
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2023 18:53:07 +0100
Subject: LiveCode server as OAuth2 client for APIs?
In-Reply-To: <1B469B5C-D740-4105-9A32-A0C8A61085ED@me.com>
References: <1B469B5C-D740-4105-9A32-A0C8A61085ED@me.com>
Message-ID: <aad271de-668d-49e3-8ec3-29f99485e4f1@revigniter.com>

Hi Keith,

using revIgniter you can always hard code the opening
form tag, this way you can use any URL as an action
attribute.

However, your message has prompted me to change the
rigFormOpen() function so that you can override the
current URL with the value of an optional action
attribute included in the second parameter.
So, if you like, you can download the modified
version of the form helper at:

https://github.com/revig/revigniter/blob/develop/system/helpers/formHelper.livecodescript


Ralf



On 06.12.2023 11:00, Keith Clarke via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi folks,
> Does anyone have experience of using OAuth2 with LiveCode server, to log into third-party data sources for API access?
>   
> I am experimenting with a web based utility app that runs on LiveCode server & RevIgniter and I need to be able to log into a Salesforce.com <http://salesforce.com/> account to pull data into the app via APIs. Im following the Salesforce Oauth 2.0 Web Server Flow for Web App Integration https://help.salesforce.com/s/articleView?id=sf.remoteaccess_oauth_web_server_flow.htm&type=5 and
> 
> Ive configured the LiveCode app as a connected app in a Salesforce developer instance, to create a consumer id, with which I can request an authorisation code. This requires a POST to a Salesforce endpoint, which, if successful redirects to a page on the Salesforce authorisation server to provide login credentials. This is where Im stuck...
> 
> The LiveCode OAuth2 library seems to be desktop centric (expecting any redirects via the loopback IP address of 127.0.0.1, rather than a URL); the RevIgniter forms library seems to support posts to URLs within the LiveCode app but not third party URLs; and if I create a LiveCode file to post data to URL tSalesforceAuthURL from within RevIgniter, I cant see any option to follow redirects and so, unsurprisingly, the page URL doesnt change.
> 
> Any advice greatly appreciated.
> Best,
> Keith
> _______________________________________________


From keith.clarke at me.com  Thu Dec  7 12:01:50 2023
From: keith.clarke at me.com (Keith Clarke)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2023 17:01:50 +0000
Subject: LiveCode server as OAuth2 client for APIs?
In-Reply-To: <aad271de-668d-49e3-8ec3-29f99485e4f1@revigniter.com>
References: <1B469B5C-D740-4105-9A32-A0C8A61085ED@me.com>
 <aad271de-668d-49e3-8ec3-29f99485e4f1@revigniter.com>
Message-ID: <A290EA48-FBF6-43B2-8C0D-738A3FD37F73@me.com>

Hi Ralf,
Thanks for the guidance and updated formHelper script - and apologies to folks not using LiveCode Server or RevIgniter - I now realise this should have been posted on the use RevIgniter list. 

I’ve now got a basic button that submits a form data post to the Salesforce authorisation server. However, there are a couple of issues, which are probably due to me misreading the user guide (again!) and/or getting confused over what markup goes into controller and view files for RevIgniter.

I’m using a controller file to prepare and add to the gData[] array both the form contents and submit button, which are then accessed in the view file, using the following... 

<?	put gData["formOpen"] & gData["submit"] into tForm
  return tForm	
?> 

In the controller file, I first used the recipe for ‘Adding Hidden Input Fields’ to create an array for the third ‘hidden’ parameter of the rigFormOpen() function. This worked as a POST but all the hidden fields are visible in the view file’s html. This is rather insecure for authentication, revealing consumer_id (and in future, client_secret, which I’ll need to add to increase security once basic access is proven). 

So, I’m hoping the rigFormHidden(tData) recipe can keep the hidden content ‘LiveCode-side' until post submission and out of the HTML. So far the hidden values don’t seem to be getting into the POST, as I’m getting an unsupported request type (so the ‘response_type=code’ is not being received). 

I’m sure I am taking the wrong approach, as well as incorrect syntax in my controller handler - as if I understand things correctly, the way I’ve got parameter three of the rigFormOpen() call pointing at gData[‘hidden’] would, if successful, render the hidden contents visible in the view file’s html... 

  # Prepare Salesforce login form
  
    # Load form helper library
    rigLoadHelper "form"
  
  # Prepare hidden parameter data array
    put “XXsomeClientIdXX" into aHidden["client_id"]
    put URLencode(“XXsomeRedirectURLXX") into aHidden["redirect_uri"]
    put "code" into aHidden["response_type"]
    put rigFormHidden(aHidden) into gData["hidden"]
    
    # Prepare form
    put rigFormOpen(“XXauthoirisationServerURLXX", “", gData["hidden"]) into gData["formOpen"]
    
    # Prepare submit button
    put "sfLoginBtn" into aData["name"]
    put "sfLoginBtn" into aData["id"]
    put "btn btn-primary" into aData["class"]
    put "submit" into aData["type"]
    put "Salesforce Login" into aData["value"]
    
    put rigSubmitButton(aData) into gData["submit"]
  
  # put "Topic1,Topic2,Topic3" into gData["ListItems"]

  get rigLoadView("homeMainView")

I’m probably making multiple newbie errors, but I’ve been unable to find any worked examples of RevIgniter controller and view file markup for form posting. So, I’d be obliged for any hints and tips.
Best,
Keith

> On 6 Dec 2023, at 17:53, Ralf Bitter via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Keith,
> 
> using revIgniter you can always hard code the opening
> form tag, this way you can use any URL as an action
> attribute.
> 
> However, your message has prompted me to change the
> rigFormOpen() function so that you can override the
> current URL with the value of an optional action
> attribute included in the second parameter.
> So, if you like, you can download the modified
> version of the form helper at:
> 
> https://github.com/revig/revigniter/blob/develop/system/helpers/formHelper.livecodescript
> 
> 
> Ralf
> 
> 
> 
> On 06.12.2023 11:00, Keith Clarke via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hi folks,
>> Does anyone have experience of using OAuth2 with LiveCode server, to log into third-party data sources for API access?
>>  I am experimenting with a web based utility app that runs on LiveCode server & RevIgniter and I need to be able to log into a Salesforce.com <http://salesforce.com/> account to pull data into the app via APIs. I’m following the Salesforce Oauth 2.0 Web Server Flow for Web App Integration https://help.salesforce.com/s/articleView?id=sf.remoteaccess_oauth_web_server_flow.htm&type=5 and
>> I’ve configured the LiveCode app as a connected app in a Salesforce developer instance, to create a consumer id, with which I can request an authorisation code. This requires a POST to a Salesforce endpoint, which, if successful redirects to a page on the Salesforce authorisation server to provide login credentials. This is where I’m stuck...
>> The LiveCode OAuth2 library seems to be desktop centric (expecting any redirects via the loopback IP address of 127.0.0.1, rather than a URL); the RevIgniter forms library seems to support posts to URLs within the LiveCode app but not third party URLs; and if I create a LiveCode file to ‘post data to URL tSalesforceAuthURL’ from within RevIgniter, I can’t see any option to follow redirects and so, unsurprisingly, the page URL doesn’t change.
>> Any advice greatly appreciated.
>> Best,
>> Keith
>> _______________________________________________
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From scott at elementarysoftware.com  Thu Dec  7 19:13:20 2023
From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (scott at elementarysoftware.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2023 16:13:20 -0800
Subject: tsNetUploadSync()
Message-ID: <4BEE9678-D45D-4039-A0E8-80BB90F53EFB@elementarysoftware.com>

I have a project that uses the business version of tsNet to ftp a file onto a web server. (I’m using a Mac, the server is a shared one on hostm.) This works fine in LC 9.6.8 but fails in subsequent versions of LC 9.6.x as well as LC 10.0.0 (dp 6). I’m fairly ignorant of tsnet and file transfer protocols. My attempts to debug the problem by looking at headers and cURL error codes hasn’t gotten me anywhere useful. Is there something that changed between LC 9.6.8 and LC 9.6.9  that might help inform where I should be looking? I saw that LC 9.6.9 updated the version of OpenSSL it was using but I’m not sure if/how that might effect tsnet. I’ve put more details below.  Any ideas welcomed. (Well, almost any ;- )

--
Scott Morrow

Elementary Software
(Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
web       https://elementarysoftware.com/
email     scott at elementarysoftware.com
booth    1-360-734-4701
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------


When things don’t work I get:
"Transfer complete with server response code tsneterr: (13) Bad PASV/EPSV response: 250”  — which is confusing to me since:

"CURLE_FTP_WEIRD_PASV_REPLY (13)
libcurl failed to get a sensible result back from the server as a response to either a PASV or a EPSV command. The server is flawed.”

Although a 250 FTP response seems to mean: "Requested file action okay, completed"


When things do work [LC 9.6.8] I get:
"Transfer complete with server response code 226”   — which I think means: Closing data connection; requested file action successful

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A more complete list of responses

server responses from LC 9.6.11 (rc 1) failed attempt:

--------- Server Responses ---------
Downloading FTPS directory listing for /public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org/calendar_events_data from ftp://xxxxxxxxxxx.serversignin.com
Transfer complete with server response code tsneterr: (13) Bad PASV/EPSV response: 550------------------
tRecvHeaders:
220---------- Welcome to Pure-FTPd [privsep] [TLS] ---------- 
220-You are user number 6 of 188 allowed. 
220-Local time is now 22:44. Server port: 21. 
220-This is a private system - No anonymous login 
220-IPv6 connections are also welcome on this server. 
220 You will be disconnected after 30 minutes of inactivity. 
500 This security scheme is not implemented 
234 AUTH TLS OK. 
331 User xxxxxxxxxxx OK. Password required 
230 OK. Current restricted directory is / 
200 PBSZ=0 
200 Data protection level set to "private" 
257 "/" is your current location 
250 OK. Current directory is /public_html 
250 OK. Current directory is /public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org 
500 Unknown command 
227 Entering Passive Mode (192,99,207,157,134,188) 
200 TYPE is now 8-bit binary 
550 I can only retrieve regular files ------------------
Uploading file 2024_calendar_events.txt to ftp://xxxxxxxxxxx.serversignin.com/public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org/calendar_events_data
Transfer complete with server response code tsneterr: (13) Bad PASV/EPSV response: 250

tRecvHeaders:
227 Entering Passive Mode (192,99,207,157,126,230) 
250 OK. Current directory is / 
250 OK. Current directory is /public_html 
250 OK. Current directory is /public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org 
250 OK. Current directory is /public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org/calendar_events_data 
tsNetGetTimeouts: 60,0,300000,60000,30,1000


server responses from LC 9.6.8 successful attempt:

Downloading FTPS directory listing for /public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org/calendar_events_data from ftp://ua873228.serversignin.com
Transfer complete with server response code tsneterr: (78) The file does not exist------------------
tRecvHeaders:
220---------- Welcome to Pure-FTPd [privsep] [TLS] ---------- 
220-You are user number 2 of 188 allowed. 
220-Local time is now 23:19. Server port: 21. 
220-This is a private system - No anonymous login 
220-IPv6 connections are also welcome on this server. 
220 You will be disconnected after 30 minutes of inactivity. 
500 This security scheme is not implemented 
234 AUTH TLS OK. 
331 User xxxxxxxxxxx OK. Password required 
230 OK. Current restricted directory is / 
200 PBSZ=0 
200 Data protection level set to "private" 
257 "/" is your current location 
250 OK. Current directory is /public_html 
250 OK. Current directory is /public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org 
500 Unknown command 
227 Entering Passive Mode (192,99,207,157,133,222) 
200 TYPE is now 8-bit binary 
550 I can only retrieve regular files ------------------
Uploading file 2024_calendar_events.txt to ftp://xxxxxxxxxxx.serversignin.com/public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org/calendar_events_data
Transfer complete with server response code 226

tRecvHeaders:
250 OK. Current directory is / 
250 OK. Current directory is /public_html 
250 OK. Current directory is /public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org 
250 OK. Current directory is /public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org/calendar_events_data 
227 Entering Passive Mode (192,99,207,157,120,24) 
150 Accepted data connection 
226-File successfully transferred 
226 0.000 seconds (measured here), 1.75 Mbytes per second 
tsNetGetTimeouts: 60,0,300000,60000,30,1000

From rabit at revigniter.com  Fri Dec  8 06:01:24 2023
From: rabit at revigniter.com (Ralf Bitter)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2023 12:01:24 +0100
Subject: LiveCode server as OAuth2 client for APIs?
In-Reply-To: <A290EA48-FBF6-43B2-8C0D-738A3FD37F73@me.com>
References: <1B469B5C-D740-4105-9A32-A0C8A61085ED@me.com>
 <aad271de-668d-49e3-8ec3-29f99485e4f1@revigniter.com>
 <A290EA48-FBF6-43B2-8C0D-738A3FD37F73@me.com>
Message-ID: <de348ff6-a274-4b6f-9fa1-feb61f457de1@revigniter.com>

Hi Keith,

to avoid creating too much noise here, let's continue
the conversation on the revIgniter mailing list. You'll find my
answer there.


Ralf



On 07.12.2023 18:01, Keith Clarke via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi Ralf,
> Thanks for the guidance and updated formHelper script - and apologies to folks not using LiveCode Server or RevIgniter - I now realise this should have been posted on the use RevIgniter list.
> 
> Ive now got a basic button that submits a form data post to the Salesforce authorisation server. However, there are a couple of issues, which are probably due to me misreading the user guide (again!) and/or getting confused over what markup goes into controller and view files for RevIgniter.
> 
> Im using a controller file to prepare and add to the gData[] array both the form contents and submit button, which are then accessed in the view file, using the following...
> 
> <?	put gData["formOpen"] & gData["submit"] into tForm
>    return tForm	
> ?>
> 
> In the controller file, I first used the recipe for Adding Hidden Input Fields to create an array for the third hidden parameter of the rigFormOpen() function. This worked as a POST but all the hidden fields are visible in the view files html. This is rather insecure for authentication, revealing consumer_id (and in future, client_secret, which Ill need to add to increase security once basic access is proven).
> 
> So, Im hoping the rigFormHidden(tData) recipe can keep the hidden content LiveCode-side' until post submission and out of the HTML. So far the hidden values dont seem to be getting into the POST, as Im getting an unsupported request type (so the response_type=code is not being received).
> 
> Im sure I am taking the wrong approach, as well as incorrect syntax in my controller handler - as if I understand things correctly, the way Ive got parameter three of the rigFormOpen() call pointing at gData[hidden] would, if successful, render the hidden contents visible in the view files html...
> 
>    # Prepare Salesforce login form
>    
>      # Load form helper library
>      rigLoadHelper "form"
>    
>    # Prepare hidden parameter data array
>      put XXsomeClientIdXX" into aHidden["client_id"]
>      put URLencode(XXsomeRedirectURLXX") into aHidden["redirect_uri"]
>      put "code" into aHidden["response_type"]
>      put rigFormHidden(aHidden) into gData["hidden"]
>      
>      # Prepare form
>      put rigFormOpen(XXauthoirisationServerURLXX", ", gData["hidden"]) into gData["formOpen"]
>      
>      # Prepare submit button
>      put "sfLoginBtn" into aData["name"]
>      put "sfLoginBtn" into aData["id"]
>      put "btn btn-primary" into aData["class"]
>      put "submit" into aData["type"]
>      put "Salesforce Login" into aData["value"]
>      
>      put rigSubmitButton(aData) into gData["submit"]
>    
>    # put "Topic1,Topic2,Topic3" into gData["ListItems"]
> 
>    get rigLoadView("homeMainView")
> 
> Im probably making multiple newbie errors, but Ive been unable to find any worked examples of RevIgniter controller and view file markup for form posting. So, Id be obliged for any hints and tips.
> Best,
> Keith
> 
>> On 6 Dec 2023, at 17:53, Ralf Bitter via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Keith,
>>
>> using revIgniter you can always hard code the opening
>> form tag, this way you can use any URL as an action
>> attribute.
>>
>> However, your message has prompted me to change the
>> rigFormOpen() function so that you can override the
>> current URL with the value of an optional action
>> attribute included in the second parameter.
>> So, if you like, you can download the modified
>> version of the form helper at:
>>
>> https://github.com/revig/revigniter/blob/develop/system/helpers/formHelper.livecodescript
>>
>>
>> Ralf
>>
>>
>>
>> On 06.12.2023 11:00, Keith Clarke via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Hi folks,
>>> Does anyone have experience of using OAuth2 with LiveCode server, to log into third-party data sources for API access?
>>>   I am experimenting with a web based utility app that runs on LiveCode server & RevIgniter and I need to be able to log into a Salesforce.com <http://salesforce.com/> account to pull data into the app via APIs. Im following the Salesforce Oauth 2.0 Web Server Flow for Web App Integration https://help.salesforce.com/s/articleView?id=sf.remoteaccess_oauth_web_server_flow.htm&type=5 and
>>> Ive configured the LiveCode app as a connected app in a Salesforce developer instance, to create a consumer id, with which I can request an authorisation code. This requires a POST to a Salesforce endpoint, which, if successful redirects to a page on the Salesforce authorisation server to provide login credentials. This is where Im stuck...
>>> The LiveCode OAuth2 library seems to be desktop centric (expecting any redirects via the loopback IP address of 127.0.0.1, rather than a URL); the RevIgniter forms library seems to support posts to URLs within the LiveCode app but not third party URLs; and if I create a LiveCode file to post data to URL tSalesforceAuthURL from within RevIgniter, I cant see any option to follow redirects and so, unsurprisingly, the page URL doesnt change.
>>> Any advice greatly appreciated.
>>> Best,
>>> Keith


From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Fri Dec  8 10:40:06 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2023 16:40:06 +0100
Subject: tsNetUploadSync()
In-Reply-To: <4BEE9678-D45D-4039-A0E8-80BB90F53EFB@elementarysoftware.com>
References: <4BEE9678-D45D-4039-A0E8-80BB90F53EFB@elementarysoftware.com>
Message-ID: <51455AA3-4AED-43C0-B870-555166E3ED84@m-r-d.de>

Hi Scott,

i just tested here with LC 9.6.10 and 10DP6 on a HostM account and also on a Synology FTP account in Rosetta mode and native on ARM64
I used FTP explicit as protocol.
In all cases it was successful.

My HostM account is on a server located in Germany at Hetzner, Your domain is on a server located in Canada at OHV.
So maybe there was a change in tsNET and there  is a difference between how our servers confirm the successful upload. And maybe the way  your server confirms the upload, does not "comply" with the changes in tsNET.

Maybe the HostM support could help in changing the settings. They are very used with Livecode. Y

Btw.  I could send you the login data for my test account so you could check  if it is working with that account. 
Then you could tell HostM suppert  that there is no problem with a German HostM account.

Regards,
Matthias






> Am 08.12.2023 um 01:13 schrieb scott--- via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> I have a project that uses the business version of tsNet to ftp a file onto a web server. (I’m using a Mac, the server is a shared one on hostm.) This works fine in LC 9.6.8 but fails in subsequent versions of LC 9.6.x as well as LC 10.0.0 (dp 6). I’m fairly ignorant of tsnet and file transfer protocols. My attempts to debug the problem by looking at headers and cURL error codes hasn’t gotten me anywhere useful. Is there something that changed between LC 9.6.8 and LC 9.6.9  that might help inform where I should be looking? I saw that LC 9.6.9 updated the version of OpenSSL it was using but I’m not sure if/how that might effect tsnet. I’ve put more details below.  Any ideas welcomed. (Well, almost any ;- )
> 
> --
> Scott Morrow
> 
> Elementary Software
> (Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
> web       https://elementarysoftware.com/
> email     scott at elementarysoftware.com
> booth    1-360-734-4701
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> When things don’t work I get:
> "Transfer complete with server response code tsneterr: (13) Bad PASV/EPSV response: 250”  — which is confusing to me since:
> 
> "CURLE_FTP_WEIRD_PASV_REPLY (13)
> libcurl failed to get a sensible result back from the server as a response to either a PASV or a EPSV command. The server is flawed.”
> 
> Although a 250 FTP response seems to mean: "Requested file action okay, completed"
> 
> 
> When things do work [LC 9.6.8] I get:
> "Transfer complete with server response code 226”   — which I think means: Closing data connection; requested file action successful
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> A more complete list of responses
> 
> server responses from LC 9.6.11 (rc 1) failed attempt:
> 
> --------- Server Responses ---------
> Downloading FTPS directory listing for /public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org/calendar_events_data from ftp://xxxxxxxxxxx.serversignin.com
> Transfer complete with server response code tsneterr: (13) Bad PASV/EPSV response: 550------------------
> tRecvHeaders:
> 220---------- Welcome to Pure-FTPd [privsep] [TLS] ---------- 
> 220-You are user number 6 of 188 allowed. 
> 220-Local time is now 22:44. Server port: 21. 
> 220-This is a private system - No anonymous login 
> 220-IPv6 connections are also welcome on this server. 
> 220 You will be disconnected after 30 minutes of inactivity. 
> 500 This security scheme is not implemented 
> 234 AUTH TLS OK. 
> 331 User xxxxxxxxxxx OK. Password required 
> 230 OK. Current restricted directory is / 
> 200 PBSZ=0 
> 200 Data protection level set to "private" 
> 257 "/" is your current location 
> 250 OK. Current directory is /public_html 
> 250 OK. Current directory is /public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org 
> 500 Unknown command 
> 227 Entering Passive Mode (192,99,207,157,134,188) 
> 200 TYPE is now 8-bit binary 
> 550 I can only retrieve regular files ------------------
> Uploading file 2024_calendar_events.txt to ftp://xxxxxxxxxxx.serversignin.com/public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org/calendar_events_data
> Transfer complete with server response code tsneterr: (13) Bad PASV/EPSV response: 250
> 
> tRecvHeaders:
> 227 Entering Passive Mode (192,99,207,157,126,230) 
> 250 OK. Current directory is / 
> 250 OK. Current directory is /public_html 
> 250 OK. Current directory is /public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org 
> 250 OK. Current directory is /public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org/calendar_events_data 
> tsNetGetTimeouts: 60,0,300000,60000,30,1000
> 
> 
> server responses from LC 9.6.8 successful attempt:
> 
> Downloading FTPS directory listing for /public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org/calendar_events_data from ftp://ua873228.serversignin.com
> Transfer complete with server response code tsneterr: (78) The file does not exist------------------
> tRecvHeaders:
> 220---------- Welcome to Pure-FTPd [privsep] [TLS] ---------- 
> 220-You are user number 2 of 188 allowed. 
> 220-Local time is now 23:19. Server port: 21. 
> 220-This is a private system - No anonymous login 
> 220-IPv6 connections are also welcome on this server. 
> 220 You will be disconnected after 30 minutes of inactivity. 
> 500 This security scheme is not implemented 
> 234 AUTH TLS OK. 
> 331 User xxxxxxxxxxx OK. Password required 
> 230 OK. Current restricted directory is / 
> 200 PBSZ=0 
> 200 Data protection level set to "private" 
> 257 "/" is your current location 
> 250 OK. Current directory is /public_html 
> 250 OK. Current directory is /public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org 
> 500 Unknown command 
> 227 Entering Passive Mode (192,99,207,157,133,222) 
> 200 TYPE is now 8-bit binary 
> 550 I can only retrieve regular files ------------------
> Uploading file 2024_calendar_events.txt to ftp://xxxxxxxxxxx.serversignin.com/public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org/calendar_events_data
> Transfer complete with server response code 226
> 
> tRecvHeaders:
> 250 OK. Current directory is / 
> 250 OK. Current directory is /public_html 
> 250 OK. Current directory is /public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org 
> 250 OK. Current directory is /public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org/calendar_events_data 
> 227 Entering Passive Mode (192,99,207,157,120,24) 
> 150 Accepted data connection 
> 226-File successfully transferred 
> 226 0.000 seconds (measured here), 1.75 Mbytes per second 
> tsNetGetTimeouts: 60,0,300000,60000,30,1000
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From gcanyon at gmail.com  Fri Dec  8 16:42:07 2023
From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2023 16:42:07 -0500
Subject: Does the browser widget work?
Message-ID: <CAKCLKtozcaRQKaQjs=S5G_ahdR7HSezru1paLLV7pHWigdgR1A@mail.gmail.com>

set the url of widget 1 to “http://www.google.com” — nothing

set the url of widget 1 to “file:///Users/gcanyon/Desktop/test.html” — also
nothing

Am I doing it wrong?

From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com  Fri Dec  8 16:53:41 2023
From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2023 22:53:41 +0100
Subject: Does the browser widget work?
In-Reply-To: <CAKCLKtozcaRQKaQjs=S5G_ahdR7HSezru1paLLV7pHWigdgR1A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKCLKtozcaRQKaQjs=S5G_ahdR7HSezru1paLLV7pHWigdgR1A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <999D6ECF-5598-41EB-8FD2-E9D0A07F2718@gmail.com>

It works for me (LC 9.6.11, Mac).

Impractically, the browser widget only shows its content with browse tool selected, not pointer tool.
But I suppose your problem isn’t that simple, right…? :)


> 8 dec. 2023 kl. 22:42 skrev Geoff Canyon via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> set the url of widget 1 to “http://www.google.com” — nothing
> 
> set the url of widget 1 to “file:///Users/gcanyon/Desktop/test.html” — also
> nothing
> 
> Am I doing it wrong?


From gcanyon at gmail.com  Fri Dec  8 16:59:59 2023
From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2023 16:59:59 -0500
Subject: Does the browser widget work?
In-Reply-To: <999D6ECF-5598-41EB-8FD2-E9D0A07F2718@gmail.com>
References: <CAKCLKtozcaRQKaQjs=S5G_ahdR7HSezru1paLLV7pHWigdgR1A@mail.gmail.com>
 <999D6ECF-5598-41EB-8FD2-E9D0A07F2718@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKCLKtotnbVmkTJT5BDvvMY6ZuH6bxsZo6xNE3_ODs5hikjL6w@mail.gmail.com>

Good gosh, WHY!?

(That fixed it, thanks)

On Fri, Dec 8, 2023 at 4:53 PM Andreas Bergendal <
andreas.bergendal at gmail.com> wrote:

> It works for me (LC 9.6.11, Mac).
>
> Impractically, the browser widget only shows its content with browse tool
> selected, not pointer tool.
> But I suppose your problem isn’t that simple, right…? :)
>
>
> > 8 dec. 2023 kl. 22:42 skrev Geoff Canyon via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> >
> > set the url of widget 1 to “http://www.google.com” — nothing
> >
> > set the url of widget 1 to “file:///Users/gcanyon/Desktop/test.html” —
> also
> > nothing
> >
> > Am I doing it wrong?
>

From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Dec  8 17:29:42 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2023 22:29:42 +0000
Subject: Does the browser widget work?
In-Reply-To: <CAKCLKtotnbVmkTJT5BDvvMY6ZuH6bxsZo6xNE3_ODs5hikjL6w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKCLKtozcaRQKaQjs=S5G_ahdR7HSezru1paLLV7pHWigdgR1A@mail.gmail.com>
 <999D6ECF-5598-41EB-8FD2-E9D0A07F2718@gmail.com>
 <CAKCLKtotnbVmkTJT5BDvvMY6ZuH6bxsZo6xNE3_ODs5hikjL6w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0127CE6A-2FC0-4C98-A965-C905F26F3316@iotecdigital.com>

Imagine certain accidental and unwanted web page spewing out sound and questionable content at work and no way to make it stop. That is one excellent reason I can give for why. :-)

Bob S


> On Dec 8, 2023, at 1:59 PM, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Good gosh, WHY!?
> 
> (That fixed it, thanks)
> 
> On Fri, Dec 8, 2023 at 4:53 PM Andreas Bergendal <
> andreas.bergendal at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> It works for me (LC 9.6.11, Mac).
>> 
>> Impractically, the browser widget only shows its content with browse tool
>> selected, not pointer tool.
>> But I suppose your problem isn’t that simple, right…? :)
>> 
>> 
>>> 8 dec. 2023 kl. 22:42 skrev Geoff Canyon via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> set the url of widget 1 to “http://www.google.com” — nothing
>>> 
>>> set the url of widget 1 to “file:///Users/gcanyon/Desktop/test.html” —
>> also
>>> nothing
>>> 
>>> Am I doing it wrong?
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Dec  8 18:42:50 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2023 23:42:50 +0000
Subject: Get rid of the remote debugger
Message-ID: <18F929FA-49AB-4B89-AC1D-E714F4326299@iotecdigital.com>

I occasionally get the dreaded error in remote debugger stack is password protected issue. I don’t WANT the remote debugger. I do not NEED the remote debugger. How can I rid myself of this incredibly annoying pest? 

Bob S


From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Fri Dec  8 19:14:48 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2023 01:14:48 +0100
Subject: Get rid of the remote debugger
In-Reply-To: <18F929FA-49AB-4B89-AC1D-E714F4326299@iotecdigital.com>
References: <18F929FA-49AB-4B89-AC1D-E714F4326299@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <9F518B85-69A5-4D26-A8AA-A4019DD084E4@m-r-d.de>

Hm, did you already try to delete the folder   Extensions/com.livecode.library.remotedebugger in the Livecode Extensions folder?

> Am 09.12.2023 um 00:42 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> I occasionally get the dreaded error in remote debugger stack is password protected issue. I don’t WANT the remote debugger. I do not NEED the remote debugger. How can I rid myself of this incredibly annoying pest? 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Dec  8 22:01:15 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2023 21:01:15 -0600
Subject: Get rid of the remote debugger
In-Reply-To: <9F518B85-69A5-4D26-A8AA-A4019DD084E4@m-r-d.de>
References: <18F929FA-49AB-4B89-AC1D-E714F4326299@iotecdigital.com>
 <9F518B85-69A5-4D26-A8AA-A4019DD084E4@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <18c4c85a078.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

Piggy backing... Did you try turning off script debugging from the 
development menu?

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On December 8, 2023 6:16:57 PM matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hm, did you already try to delete the folder   
> Extensions/com.livecode.library.remotedebugger in the Livecode Extensions 
> folder?
>
>> Am 09.12.2023 um 00:42 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>
>> I occasionally get the dreaded error in remote debugger stack is password 
>> protected issue. I dont WANT the remote debugger. I do not NEED the remote 
>> debugger. How can I rid myself of this incredibly annoying pest?
>>
>> Bob S
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From paul at researchware.com  Sat Dec  9 08:33:44 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2023 08:33:44 -0500
Subject: Get rid of the remote debugger
In-Reply-To: <18c4c85a078.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <18F929FA-49AB-4B89-AC1D-E714F4326299@iotecdigital.com>
 <9F518B85-69A5-4D26-A8AA-A4019DD084E4@m-r-d.de>
 <18c4c85a078.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <47084ee5-22ec-440b-bbd2-7238aa9fbd6c@researchware.com>

For what it's worth, I sometime get these errors. I develop on Windows 
11 (x64) using LC 9.6.11 and do not develop for mobile or web, so no 
remote debugging. I do not want to get rid of (remove) or turn off 
script debugging. I use the script debugger all the time.

There is some recipe, that I have not figured out yet, where this error 
occurs, when you are just doing what I'd consider "normal" debugging. I 
just have not had time to pin it down. (To busy filing PDF Widget bugs 
and enhancements to get it to parity with the XPDF external).

Paul Dupuis
Researchware

On 12/8/2023 10:01 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
> Piggy backing... Did you try turning off script debugging from the 
> development menu?
>
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On December 8, 2023 6:16:57 PM matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> Hm, did you already try to delete the folder   
>> Extensions/com.livecode.library.remotedebugger in the Livecode 
>> Extensions folder?
>>
>>> Am 09.12.2023 um 00:42 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>
>>> I occasionally get the dreaded error in remote debugger stack is 
>>> password protected issue. I dont WANT the remote debugger. I do not 
>>> NEED the remote debugger. How can I rid myself of this incredibly 
>>> annoying pest?
>>>
>>> Bob S
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From tom at makeshyft.com  Sat Dec  9 16:22:37 2023
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2023 16:22:37 -0500
Subject: APPWrite Integration
Message-ID: <CAPzQJLJHuOx-PGEbQUaCWC1mL_sx6Hkwg-vusirFYhRLYKczzA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Folks,

If anyone here is interested in a working APPWrite LC Integration, pm me.
Authentication & JWT Token
And document CRUD.
Using TSNet

If you've never heard of it, appwrite.io

Cheers,

Tom

From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Sun Dec 10 16:59:42 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2023 21:59:42 +0000
Subject: Get rid of the remote debugger
In-Reply-To: <47084ee5-22ec-440b-bbd2-7238aa9fbd6c@researchware.com>
References: <18F929FA-49AB-4B89-AC1D-E714F4326299@iotecdigital.com>
 <9F518B85-69A5-4D26-A8AA-A4019DD084E4@m-r-d.de>
 <18c4c85a078.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <47084ee5-22ec-440b-bbd2-7238aa9fbd6c@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <43DE7FB7-8C88-4C28-B95E-A048117FA527@iotecdigital.com>

I will try the suggestions, however I use the IDE debugger extensively so that is not an option. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 9, 2023, at 05:35, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> For what it's worth, I sometime get these errors. I develop on Windows 11 (x64) using LC 9.6.11 and do not develop for mobile or web, so no remote debugging. I do not want to get rid of (remove) or turn off script debugging. I use the script debugger all the time.
> 
> There is some recipe, that I have not figured out yet, where this error occurs, when you are just doing what I'd consider "normal" debugging. I just have not had time to pin it down. (To busy filing PDF Widget bugs and enhancements to get it to parity with the XPDF external).
> 
> Paul Dupuis
> Researchware
> 
>> On 12/8/2023 10:01 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
>> Piggy backing... Did you try turning off script debugging from the development menu?
>> 
>> -- 
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>> On December 8, 2023 6:16:57 PM matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hm, did you already try to delete the folder   Extensions/com.livecode.library.remotedebugger in the Livecode Extensions folder?
>>> 
>>>> Am 09.12.2023 um 00:42 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>> 
>>>> I occasionally get the dreaded error in remote debugger stack is password protected issue. I don’t WANT the remote debugger. I do not NEED the remote debugger. How can I rid myself of this incredibly annoying pest?
>>>> 
>>>> Bob S
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun Dec 10 19:05:16 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2023 18:05:16 -0600
Subject: Get rid of the remote debugger
In-Reply-To: <43DE7FB7-8C88-4C28-B95E-A048117FA527@iotecdigital.com>
References: <18F929FA-49AB-4B89-AC1D-E714F4326299@iotecdigital.com>
 <9F518B85-69A5-4D26-A8AA-A4019DD084E4@m-r-d.de>
 <18c4c85a078.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <47084ee5-22ec-440b-bbd2-7238aa9fbd6c@researchware.com>
 <43DE7FB7-8C88-4C28-B95E-A048117FA527@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <18c56313a60.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

You can just turn it off when testing mobile and restore it when back in 
the IDE.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On December 10, 2023 4:02:01 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I will try the suggestions, however I use the IDE debugger extensively so 
> that is not an option.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Dec 9, 2023, at 05:35, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> For what it's worth, I sometime get these errors. I develop on Windows 11 
>> (x64) using LC 9.6.11 and do not develop for mobile or web, so no remote 
>> debugging. I do not want to get rid of (remove) or turn off script 
>> debugging. I use the script debugger all the time.
>>
>> There is some recipe, that I have not figured out yet, where this error 
>> occurs, when you are just doing what I'd consider "normal" debugging. I 
>> just have not had time to pin it down. (To busy filing PDF Widget bugs and 
>> enhancements to get it to parity with the XPDF external).
>>
>> Paul Dupuis
>> Researchware
>>
>>> On 12/8/2023 10:01 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Piggy backing... Did you try turning off script debugging from the 
>>> development menu?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>>> On December 8, 2023 6:16:57 PM matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
>>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hm, did you already try to delete the folder   
>>>> Extensions/com.livecode.library.remotedebugger in the Livecode Extensions 
>>>> folder?
>>>>
>>>>> Am 09.12.2023 um 00:42 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>>>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>> I occasionally get the dreaded error in remote debugger stack is password 
>>>>> protected issue. I dont WANT the remote debugger. I do not NEED the remote 
>>>>> debugger. How can I rid myself of this incredibly annoying pest?
>>>>>
>>>>> Bob S
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Sun Dec 10 19:25:31 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2023 00:25:31 +0000
Subject: Get rid of the remote debugger
In-Reply-To: <18c56313a60.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <18F929FA-49AB-4B89-AC1D-E714F4326299@iotecdigital.com>
 <9F518B85-69A5-4D26-A8AA-A4019DD084E4@m-r-d.de>
 <18c4c85a078.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <47084ee5-22ec-440b-bbd2-7238aa9fbd6c@researchware.com>
 <43DE7FB7-8C88-4C28-B95E-A048117FA527@iotecdigital.com>
 <18c56313a60.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <C434DED2-894E-4B56-A505-1E2091F31318@iotecdigital.com>

The problem is that I am not testing a mobile app. I am simply launching a stack in the IDE. The remote debugger should not even be in the message path. It’s clear there is a problem with my code, but because the Debugger gets in the way I can’t tell where. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 10, 2023, at 16:06, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> You can just turn it off when testing mobile and restore it when back in the IDE.
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>> On December 10, 2023 4:02:01 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I will try the suggestions, however I use the IDE debugger extensively so that is not an option.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>>> On Dec 9, 2023, at 05:35, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> For what it's worth, I sometime get these errors. I develop on Windows 11 (x64) using LC 9.6.11 and do not develop for mobile or web, so no remote debugging. I do not want to get rid of (remove) or turn off script debugging. I use the script debugger all the time.
>>> 
>>> There is some recipe, that I have not figured out yet, where this error occurs, when you are just doing what I'd consider "normal" debugging. I just have not had time to pin it down. (To busy filing PDF Widget bugs and enhancements to get it to parity with the XPDF external).
>>> 
>>> Paul Dupuis
>>> Researchware
>>> 
>>>> On 12/8/2023 10:01 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> Piggy backing... Did you try turning off script debugging from the development menu?
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>>>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>>>> On December 8, 2023 6:16:57 PM matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hm, did you already try to delete the folder   Extensions/com.livecode.library.remotedebugger in the Livecode Extensions folder?
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Am 09.12.2023 um 00:42 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I occasionally get the dreaded error in remote debugger stack is password protected issue. I don’t WANT the remote debugger. I do not NEED the remote debugger. How can I rid myself of this incredibly annoying pest?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Bob S
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Dec 11 00:19:02 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2023 23:19:02 -0600
Subject: Get rid of the remote debugger
In-Reply-To: <C434DED2-894E-4B56-A505-1E2091F31318@iotecdigital.com>
References: <18F929FA-49AB-4B89-AC1D-E714F4326299@iotecdigital.com>
 <9F518B85-69A5-4D26-A8AA-A4019DD084E4@m-r-d.de>
 <18c4c85a078.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <47084ee5-22ec-440b-bbd2-7238aa9fbd6c@researchware.com>
 <43DE7FB7-8C88-4C28-B95E-A048117FA527@iotecdigital.com>
 <18c56313a60.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <C434DED2-894E-4B56-A505-1E2091F31318@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <18c57507d70.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

Oh! Sorry, I thought you were testing on mobile. I don't think you should 
be getting errors from the remote debugger when you're in the IDE...very 
strange.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On December 10, 2023 6:27:33 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> The problem is that I am not testing a mobile app. I am simply launching a 
> stack in the IDE. The remote debugger should not even be in the message 
> path. Its clear there is a problem with my code, but because the Debugger 
> gets in the way I cant tell where.





From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Mon Dec 11 11:36:18 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2023 16:36:18 +0000
Subject: Get rid of the remote debugger
In-Reply-To: <9F518B85-69A5-4D26-A8AA-A4019DD084E4@m-r-d.de>
References: <18F929FA-49AB-4B89-AC1D-E714F4326299@iotecdigital.com>
 <9F518B85-69A5-4D26-A8AA-A4019DD084E4@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <D5D80BA7-73F7-44D9-A1FC-8E2A17788B2C@iotecdigital.com>

That is not where the remote debugger lives on MacOS. It is in the Application package. I can try to remove it from there and see what happens. 

Bob S


> On Dec 8, 2023, at 4:14 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hm, did you already try to delete the folder   Extensions/com.livecode.library.remotedebugger in the Livecode Extensions folder?
> 
>> Am 09.12.2023 um 00:42 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> I occasionally get the dreaded error in remote debugger stack is password protected issue. I don’t WANT the remote debugger. I do not NEED the remote debugger. How can I rid myself of this incredibly annoying pest? 
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Mon Dec 11 11:41:27 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2023 16:41:27 +0000
Subject: Get rid of the remote debugger
In-Reply-To: <D5D80BA7-73F7-44D9-A1FC-8E2A17788B2C@iotecdigital.com>
References: <18F929FA-49AB-4B89-AC1D-E714F4326299@iotecdigital.com>
 <9F518B85-69A5-4D26-A8AA-A4019DD084E4@m-r-d.de>
 <D5D80BA7-73F7-44D9-A1FC-8E2A17788B2C@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <528E4C6A-70B4-4ECB-8377-4DD185ECFE87@iotecdigital.com>

Ahah! I removed the folder from the application package extensions folder and I no longer get the error! Also, my code is not throwing ANY kind of error, so this is definitely something wrong with the remote debugger or something else that thinks a remote debugger error has occurred when it hasn’t. 

Bob S


> On Dec 11, 2023, at 8:36 AM, Bob Sneidar <bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com> wrote:
> 
> That is not where the remote debugger lives on MacOS. It is in the Application package. I can try to remove it from there and see what happens. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Dec 8, 2023, at 4:14 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hm, did you already try to delete the folder   Extensions/com.livecode.library.remotedebugger in the Livecode Extensions folder?
>> 
>>> Am 09.12.2023 um 00:42 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> I occasionally get the dreaded error in remote debugger stack is password protected issue. I don’t WANT the remote debugger. I do not NEED the remote debugger. How can I rid myself of this incredibly annoying pest? 
>>> 
>>> Bob S
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Dec 11 14:19:47 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2023 13:19:47 -0600
Subject: Get rid of the remote debugger
In-Reply-To: <528E4C6A-70B4-4ECB-8377-4DD185ECFE87@iotecdigital.com>
References: <18F929FA-49AB-4B89-AC1D-E714F4326299@iotecdigital.com>
 <9F518B85-69A5-4D26-A8AA-A4019DD084E4@m-r-d.de>
 <D5D80BA7-73F7-44D9-A1FC-8E2A17788B2C@iotecdigital.com>
 <528E4C6A-70B4-4ECB-8377-4DD185ECFE87@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <18c5a523838.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

If you have a reproducible script it would be something LC probably should 
know about in a bug report.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On December 11, 2023 10:43:27 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Ahah! I removed the folder from the application package extensions folder 
> and I no longer get the error! Also, my code is not throwing ANY kind of 
> error, so this is definitely something wrong with the remote debugger or 
> something else that thinks a remote debugger error has occurred when it hasnt.
>
> Bob S
>
>
>> On Dec 11, 2023, at 8:36 AM, Bob Sneidar <bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com> wrote:
>>
>> That is not where the remote debugger lives on MacOS. It is in the 
>> Application package. I can try to remove it from there and see what happens.
>>
>> Bob S
>>
>>
>>> On Dec 8, 2023, at 4:14 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hm, did you already try to delete the folder   
>>> Extensions/com.livecode.library.remotedebugger in the Livecode Extensions 
>>> folder?
>>>
>>>> Am 09.12.2023 um 00:42 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>>
>>>> I occasionally get the dreaded error in remote debugger stack is password 
>>>> protected issue. I dont WANT the remote debugger. I do not NEED the remote 
>>>> debugger. How can I rid myself of this incredibly annoying pest?
>>>>
>>>> Bob S
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Mon Dec 11 14:35:16 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2023 19:35:16 +0000
Subject: Get rid of the remote debugger
In-Reply-To: <18c5a523838.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <18F929FA-49AB-4B89-AC1D-E714F4326299@iotecdigital.com>
 <9F518B85-69A5-4D26-A8AA-A4019DD084E4@m-r-d.de>
 <D5D80BA7-73F7-44D9-A1FC-8E2A17788B2C@iotecdigital.com>
 <528E4C6A-70B4-4ECB-8377-4DD185ECFE87@iotecdigital.com>
 <18c5a523838.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <2276BD3E-C677-4188-BE00-8E5FBFDA1C9C@iotecdigital.com>

See that is the exact problem. Because when enabled, the remoteScriptDebugger says there is an error, but cannot show me where the error is because the script is locked, I have no clue as to what script (if any) is causing the issue. That is why I asked if anyone had the password to the remoteScriptDebugger, so I could trace it back.

And to further complicate things, once I remove the remoteScriptDebugger, none of my regular scripts are failing, unless it is failing silently which lands me right where I started.

Anyway, at least I have a workaround.

Bob S


On Dec 11, 2023, at 11:19 AM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

If you have a reproducible script it would be something LC probably should know about in a bug report.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com<mailto:jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com<http://www.hyperactivesw.com/>


From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au  Mon Dec 11 15:15:36 2023
From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe)
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2023 07:15:36 +1100
Subject: Get rid of the remote debugger
Message-ID: <D5C969EF-F88C-41E3-9C30-BE683D9F108C@optusnet.com.au>

Bob: There may be a problem with your code.
I believe I have seen the Remote Debugger message when I had a runtime error in a modal dialog. In earlier versions of LiveCode the dialog would fail silently, returning to the stack without reporting any error but actually not executing any code after the error. This was an LC bug and is supposed to have been fixed but instead of getting a useful error reported from the modal dialog I got the unhelpful Remote Debugger message … better than nothing.

If you have a modal dialog try running your stack with the dialog non-modally to check this possibility.

Neville Smythe




From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Mon Dec 11 15:17:47 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2023 21:17:47 +0100
Subject: Get rid of the remote debugger
In-Reply-To: <D5D80BA7-73F7-44D9-A1FC-8E2A17788B2C@iotecdigital.com>
References: <18F929FA-49AB-4B89-AC1D-E714F4326299@iotecdigital.com>
 <9F518B85-69A5-4D26-A8AA-A4019DD084E4@m-r-d.de>
 <D5D80BA7-73F7-44D9-A1FC-8E2A17788B2C@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <DCF5BA40-8B91-4093-92E4-641498B5F7AE@m-r-d.de>

I meant the extensions folder in the app bundle, just don't mentioned it. Thought that it is clear that all included extensions reside in the app bundle. ;)



> Am 11.12.2023 um 17:36 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> That is not where the remote debugger lives on MacOS. It is in the Application package. I can try to remove it from there and see what happens. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Dec 8, 2023, at 4:14 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hm, did you already try to delete the folder   Extensions/com.livecode.library.remotedebugger in the Livecode Extensions folder?
>> 
>>> Am 09.12.2023 um 00:42 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> I occasionally get the dreaded error in remote debugger stack is password protected issue. I don’t WANT the remote debugger. I do not NEED the remote debugger. How can I rid myself of this incredibly annoying pest? 
>>> 
>>> Bob S
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From panos.merakos at livecode.com  Tue Dec 12 11:09:02 2023
From: panos.merakos at livecode.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2023 18:09:02 +0200
Subject: [[ANN]] Release 10.0.0 DP-7
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq8irXtQMuh0VcbF64SckqnGOgkdxGt_rma0RbeWyCiNQQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear list members,

We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 10.0.0 DP-7.

LiveCode 10.0.0 DP-7 comes with more than 16 bugfixes and new features
since the previous DP release, and also includes the bug fixes of LiveCode
9.6.11, such as support for building with Xcode 15 / iOS 17 SDK and some
fixes for macOS Sonoma.

You can find more details on the bug fixes and improvements of this new
release here:

https://livecode.com/livecode-10-dp-7-ios-17-sonoma-fixes/

You can find the release in your LiveCode account area or get it via the
automatic updater.

Enjoy!

Kind regards
The LiveCode Team
--

From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Tue Dec 12 15:24:19 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2023 20:24:19 +0000
Subject: [[ANN]] Release 10.0.0 DP-7
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq8irXtQMuh0VcbF64SckqnGOgkdxGt_rma0RbeWyCiNQQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+JfEq8irXtQMuh0VcbF64SckqnGOgkdxGt_rma0RbeWyCiNQQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <370CED91-BEF7-4AF0-94C1-A20D41A8E943@gmail.com>

Thank you Panos. I look forward to diving into this.

Mark

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 12, 2023, at 4:10 PM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Dear list members,
> 
> We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 10.0.0 DP-7.
> 
> LiveCode 10.0.0 DP-7 comes with more than 16 bugfixes and new features
> since the previous DP release, and also includes the bug fixes of LiveCode
> 9.6.11, such as support for building with Xcode 15 / iOS 17 SDK and some
> fixes for macOS Sonoma.
> 
> You can find more details on the bug fixes and improvements of this new
> release here:
> 
> https://livecode.com/livecode-10-dp-7-ios-17-sonoma-fixes/
> 
> You can find the release in your LiveCode account area or get it via the
> automatic updater.
> 
> Enjoy!
> 
> Kind regards
> The LiveCode Team
> --
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com  Wed Dec 13 14:08:15 2023
From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2023 20:08:15 +0100
Subject: Your scripts as a flowchart
In-Reply-To: <e2432ecf-2c08-4e3c-a4e0-8337b8541f54@speedbump.io>
References: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com>
 <CAKCLKtpqQXm8OwOuhb=2QSTzd+zqFF5fWiWpH0WZ6uxtVuxYRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <18a9f0eaa08.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CAKCLKtofwpfMt7L05z5CbCqA=xeEa3YM3bbodwdv0ZWK3bYBEw@mail.gmail.com>
 <023C9AEA-7B3A-455E-B6DC-18164BBF04B5@gmail.com>
 <CAKCLKtrOSD0O3kvs43Q_mJno4Dkf3e4Rv-JigjunPZJJP_s2pQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKCLKtr7_H9=htuGpOJiM_qOKKHONVimCYFLj2GRsN65jifqWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5357224F-1A01-4F2E-804A-014467118930@gmail.com>
 <45122269-0cd1-47ff-9dac-bb5c003ca1c4@speedbump.io>
 <C24EEA90-E5E2-4FB8-B0EF-C30DD601FB37@gmail.com>
 <e2432ecf-2c08-4e3c-a4e0-8337b8541f54@speedbump.io>
Message-ID: <A9BBAB28-D426-4613-A45A-C6C8A8E8AD86@gmail.com>

Latest WIS_ScriptDependencies update:

1.1.6 (12 Dec 2023)
- Enhancement: If the Kroki service is down, so no png/svg can be produced, a dialog is presented giving the choice to render the flowchart as html instead
- Enhancement: Improved design of the help section and the flowchart settings pane
- Enhancement: Mermaid version can now be modified (affects html rendering only). This is not something you’d normally need to do, but it has turned out that the latest versions of Mermaid implement some kind of hard limit on the number of edges, preventing large flowcharts from rendering. So for now, Mermaid v10.5.1 is default (no edge limit), but can be changed to a later version by advanced users.
- Fixed bug: Some actions in the mainstack triggered flowchart updates even if the flowchart substack was closed
- Other minor fixes

Download here:
https://github.com/wheninspace/WIS_ScriptDependencies/releases/latest

From markclark at mac.com  Wed Dec 13 19:33:17 2023
From: markclark at mac.com (Mark Clark)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2023 18:33:17 -0600
Subject: ferruslogic timer
Message-ID: <7DE4DC5C-E7C2-4BA8-988B-4ABE5793B1AD@mac.com>

Seems like there was a handy timer widget by ferrus logic a while back. Think the extension was community.livecode.ferruslogic.timer -- Not seeing it on google or github. Discontinued? (I should have been more careful removing old app bundles)

Mark

From bdrunrev at gmail.com  Thu Dec 14 09:24:46 2023
From: bdrunrev at gmail.com (Bernard Devlin)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 14:24:46 +0000
Subject: OT: htmx and hyperscript
Message-ID: <CA+O+R-FhdOH7Rbvxfk_qNfLrqmXeB4C-FgeGH-_ctscFD7Ud5w@mail.gmail.com>

As I was looking into htmx (which is basically going in the opposite
direction to that which Livecode is taking with WASM), I discovered the
author of htmx has also implemented a kind of hypertalk in the browser (the
point being to more simply hook into DOM events).

It looks rather ugly IMO (unlike htmx).  But I know people on this list are
often interested in descendants/hat-tips to Hypercard.

https://hyperscript.org/

Regards, Bernard

From paul at researchware.com  Thu Dec 14 16:22:13 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 16:22:13 -0500
Subject: Which is faster...
Message-ID: <719ea94e-6473-4ce2-a992-8bc371c8c446@researchware.com>

Which is faster or more efficient (from an engine performance perspective)?

To retrieve an array from a property?
As in:
command someHandler -- in an objects script
   get the cMyArray from me -- cMyArray is some multi-dimensional array
   ...
end someHandler

OR

To retrieve an array from a script local variable?
As in:
local sMyArray -- script local variable in some objects script

command someHandler -- in an objects script
   get sMyArray
   ...
end someHandler

Anyone know?


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu Dec 14 16:45:53 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 21:45:53 +0000
Subject: Which is faster...
In-Reply-To: <719ea94e-6473-4ce2-a992-8bc371c8c446@researchware.com>
References: <719ea94e-6473-4ce2-a992-8bc371c8c446@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <C5D56BA7-22A0-4D4C-A33D-6533F511ADF8@iotecdigital.com>

I think the confusion comes from thinking so much of a stack as an object that has substance, when really all the properties are places in memory just like a memory variable is. I asked this some years back and the answer I got was that there is no appreciable difference.

One could always devise a test though…

Bob S


On Dec 14, 2023, at 1:22 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

Which is faster or more efficient (from an engine performance perspective)?

To retrieve an array from a property?
As in:
command someHandler -- in an objects script
  get the cMyArray from me -- cMyArray is some multi-dimensional array
  ...
end someHandler

OR

To retrieve an array from a script local variable?
As in:
local sMyArray -- script local variable in some objects script

command someHandler -- in an objects script
  get sMyArray
  ...
end someHandler

Anyone know?


From paul at researchware.com  Thu Dec 14 16:55:14 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 16:55:14 -0500
Subject: Which is faster...
In-Reply-To: <C5D56BA7-22A0-4D4C-A33D-6533F511ADF8@iotecdigital.com>
References: <719ea94e-6473-4ce2-a992-8bc371c8c446@researchware.com>
 <C5D56BA7-22A0-4D4C-A33D-6533F511ADF8@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <204ed529-064d-4ad0-a693-fee00f02fe94@researchware.com>

Bob,

Thank you. I could script a timing test but sometime just asking the 
list or forums is easier. You asnwered well before I would have had the 
time to write a basic test script. Thanks!


On 12/14/2023 4:45 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
> I think the confusion comes from thinking so much of a stack as an object that has substance, when really all the properties are places in memory just like a memory variable is. I asked this some years back and the answer I got was that there is no appreciable difference.
>
> One could always devise a test though
>
> Bob S
>
>
> On Dec 14, 2023, at 1:22 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> Which is faster or more efficient (from an engine performance perspective)?
>
> To retrieve an array from a property?
> As in:
> command someHandler -- in an objects script
>    get the cMyArray from me -- cMyArray is some multi-dimensional array
>    ...
> end someHandler
>
> OR
>
> To retrieve an array from a script local variable?
> As in:
> local sMyArray -- script local variable in some objects script
>
> command someHandler -- in an objects script
>    get sMyArray
>    ...
> end someHandler
>
> Anyone know?
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From craig at starfirelighting.com  Thu Dec 14 17:25:32 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 17:25:32 -0500
Subject: Which is faster...
In-Reply-To: <204ed529-064d-4ad0-a693-fee00f02fe94@researchware.com>
References: <719ea94e-6473-4ce2-a992-8bc371c8c446@researchware.com>
 <C5D56BA7-22A0-4D4C-A33D-6533F511ADF8@iotecdigital.com>
 <204ed529-064d-4ad0-a693-fee00f02fe94@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <3B75B569-02F5-4B34-B45C-98A674F39669@starfirelighting.com>

Anything to distract me from my day job.

An array with 100,000 elements and a variable with 100,00 lines take the same time to place into a field.

The only time that took a while was building them. Each took 10 milliseconds.

Craig

> On Dec 14, 2023, at 4:55 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Bob,
> 
> Thank you. I could script a timing test but sometime just asking the list or forums is easier. You asnwered well before I would have had the time to write a basic test script. Thanks!
> 
> 
> On 12/14/2023 4:45 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
>> I think the confusion comes from thinking so much of a stack as an object that has substance, when really all the properties are places in memory just like a memory variable is. I asked this some years back and the answer I got was that there is no appreciable difference.
>> 
>> One could always devise a test though…
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>> 
>> On Dec 14, 2023, at 1:22 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Which is faster or more efficient (from an engine performance perspective)?
>> 
>> To retrieve an array from a property?
>> As in:
>> command someHandler -- in an objects script
>>   get the cMyArray from me -- cMyArray is some multi-dimensional array
>>   ...
>> end someHandler
>> 
>> OR
>> 
>> To retrieve an array from a script local variable?
>> As in:
>> local sMyArray -- script local variable in some objects script
>> 
>> command someHandler -- in an objects script
>>   get sMyArray
>>   ...
>> end someHandler
>> 
>> Anyone know?
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From paul at researchware.com  Thu Dec 14 17:30:49 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 17:30:49 -0500
Subject: Which is faster...
In-Reply-To: <3B75B569-02F5-4B34-B45C-98A674F39669@starfirelighting.com>
References: <719ea94e-6473-4ce2-a992-8bc371c8c446@researchware.com>
 <C5D56BA7-22A0-4D4C-A33D-6533F511ADF8@iotecdigital.com>
 <204ed529-064d-4ad0-a693-fee00f02fe94@researchware.com>
 <3B75B569-02F5-4B34-B45C-98A674F39669@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <9e930437-9f6b-4c43-8478-22d82f28a81b@researchware.com>

On 12/14/2023 5:25 PM, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote:
> Anything to distract me from my day job.
Glad I could help!

And thank you for the confirming benchmarks!

From craig at starfirelighting.com  Thu Dec 14 17:32:09 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 17:32:09 -0500
Subject: Which is faster...
In-Reply-To: <3B75B569-02F5-4B34-B45C-98A674F39669@starfirelighting.com>
References: <719ea94e-6473-4ce2-a992-8bc371c8c446@researchware.com>
 <C5D56BA7-22A0-4D4C-A33D-6533F511ADF8@iotecdigital.com>
 <204ed529-064d-4ad0-a693-fee00f02fe94@researchware.com>
 <3B75B569-02F5-4B34-B45C-98A674F39669@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <A3979B6E-FD85-4CFD-B393-C2E6B7C82327@starfirelighting.com>

Typo in the last post. BOTH had 100,000 elements or lines.

Craig

> On Dec 14, 2023, at 5:25 PM, Craig Newman <craig at starfirelighting.com> wrote:
> 
> Anything to distract me from my day job.
> 
> An array with 100,000 elements and a variable with 100,00 lines take the same time to place into a field.
> 
> The only time that took a while was building them. Each took 10 milliseconds.
> 
> Craig
> 
>> On Dec 14, 2023, at 4:55 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Bob,
>> 
>> Thank you. I could script a timing test but sometime just asking the list or forums is easier. You asnwered well before I would have had the time to write a basic test script. Thanks!
>> 
>> 
>> On 12/14/2023 4:45 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
>>> I think the confusion comes from thinking so much of a stack as an object that has substance, when really all the properties are places in memory just like a memory variable is. I asked this some years back and the answer I got was that there is no appreciable difference.
>>> 
>>> One could always devise a test though…
>>> 
>>> Bob S
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Dec 14, 2023, at 1:22 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Which is faster or more efficient (from an engine performance perspective)?
>>> 
>>> To retrieve an array from a property?
>>> As in:
>>> command someHandler -- in an objects script
>>>  get the cMyArray from me -- cMyArray is some multi-dimensional array
>>>  ...
>>> end someHandler
>>> 
>>> OR
>>> 
>>> To retrieve an array from a script local variable?
>>> As in:
>>> local sMyArray -- script local variable in some objects script
>>> 
>>> command someHandler -- in an objects script
>>>  get sMyArray
>>>  ...
>>> end someHandler
>>> 
>>> Anyone know?
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 



From craig at starfirelighting.com  Thu Dec 14 17:33:40 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 17:33:40 -0500
Subject: Which is faster...
In-Reply-To: <A3979B6E-FD85-4CFD-B393-C2E6B7C82327@starfirelighting.com>
References: <719ea94e-6473-4ce2-a992-8bc371c8c446@researchware.com>
 <C5D56BA7-22A0-4D4C-A33D-6533F511ADF8@iotecdigital.com>
 <204ed529-064d-4ad0-a693-fee00f02fe94@researchware.com>
 <3B75B569-02F5-4B34-B45C-98A674F39669@starfirelighting.com>
 <A3979B6E-FD85-4CFD-B393-C2E6B7C82327@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <EF21484A-C0B3-4B35-9CB7-6CB533D13531@starfirelighting.com>

Laziness in the last post.

BOTH took 10 mS to fill an ordinary variable.

Craig

> On Dec 14, 2023, at 5:32 PM, Craig Newman <craig at starfirelighting.com> wrote:
> 
> Typo in the last post. BOTH had 100,000 elements or lines.
> 
> Craig
> 
>> On Dec 14, 2023, at 5:25 PM, Craig Newman <craig at starfirelighting.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Anything to distract me from my day job.
>> 
>> An array with 100,000 elements and a variable with 100,00 lines take the same time to place into a field.
>> 
>> The only time that took a while was building them. Each took 10 milliseconds.
>> 
>> Craig
>> 
>>> On Dec 14, 2023, at 4:55 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Bob,
>>> 
>>> Thank you. I could script a timing test but sometime just asking the list or forums is easier. You asnwered well before I would have had the time to write a basic test script. Thanks!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 12/14/2023 4:45 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> I think the confusion comes from thinking so much of a stack as an object that has substance, when really all the properties are places in memory just like a memory variable is. I asked this some years back and the answer I got was that there is no appreciable difference.
>>>> 
>>>> One could always devise a test though…
>>>> 
>>>> Bob S
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Dec 14, 2023, at 1:22 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Which is faster or more efficient (from an engine performance perspective)?
>>>> 
>>>> To retrieve an array from a property?
>>>> As in:
>>>> command someHandler -- in an objects script
>>>> get the cMyArray from me -- cMyArray is some multi-dimensional array
>>>> ...
>>>> end someHandler
>>>> 
>>>> OR
>>>> 
>>>> To retrieve an array from a script local variable?
>>>> As in:
>>>> local sMyArray -- script local variable in some objects script
>>>> 
>>>> command someHandler -- in an objects script
>>>> get sMyArray
>>>> ...
>>>> end someHandler
>>>> 
>>>> Anyone know?
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> 



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu Dec 14 19:33:15 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2023 00:33:15 +0000
Subject: Which is faster...
In-Reply-To: <3B75B569-02F5-4B34-B45C-98A674F39669@starfirelighting.com>
References: <719ea94e-6473-4ce2-a992-8bc371c8c446@researchware.com>
 <C5D56BA7-22A0-4D4C-A33D-6533F511ADF8@iotecdigital.com>
 <204ed529-064d-4ad0-a693-fee00f02fe94@researchware.com>
 <3B75B569-02F5-4B34-B45C-98A674F39669@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <97739B91-D628-4173-BC8D-F8D2529F31B3@iotecdigital.com>

That is not exactly the test he was looking for. He wants to compare retrieving an array from a script local variable vs. getting a property of an object like a stack, that contains the same array. At least I think that is the question. 

Now I’d like to discuss virtual properties. It takes the form: 

Local lValueA

setProp myVirtualProperty, pValueA
   Put pValueA into lValueA
End setProp

The reason this is really handy is because if pValueA is an array, you can then use the form: 

getProp myVirtualProperty [pKey]
   If pKey is not empty then 
      Return lValueA [pKey]
   Else
      Return tValueA
End getProp

In other words, you can get elements of the array without getting the entire array itself i.e.:

Put the myVirtualProperty [“companyname”] of myLivecodeObject into tCompanyName

I use this quite extensively. I have a single card which contains all the currently queried database data for caching purposes, along with the currently selected indexes for each datagrid, and the currently selected primary keys. I call the getProp and setProp handlers maingriddata. So I can:

Get the maingriddata [“hilitedkeys”] of tMainCard
Get the maingriddata [“hilitedindexes”] of tMainCard
Get the maingriddata [“customers”]
Put the queriedCustomersA into tMainGridDataA
Set the maingriddata to tMainGridDataA

And so forth. Any kind of logic can be used in the getProp and setProp handlers. 

Bob S

> On Dec 14, 2023, at 2:25 PM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Anything to distract me from my day job.
> 
> An array with 100,000 elements and a variable with 100,00 lines take the same time to place into a field.
> 
> The only time that took a while was building them. Each took 10 milliseconds.
> 
> Craig
> 
>> On Dec 14, 2023, at 4:55 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Bob,
>> 
>> Thank you. I could script a timing test but sometime just asking the list or forums is easier. You asnwered well before I would have had the time to write a basic test script. Thanks!
>> 
>> 
>> On 12/14/2023 4:45 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
>>> I think the confusion comes from thinking so much of a stack as an object that has substance, when really all the properties are places in memory just like a memory variable is. I asked this some years back and the answer I got was that there is no appreciable difference.
>>> 
>>> One could always devise a test though…
>>> 
>>> Bob S
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Dec 14, 2023, at 1:22 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Which is faster or more efficient (from an engine performance perspective)?
>>> 
>>> To retrieve an array from a property?
>>> As in:
>>> command someHandler -- in an objects script
>>>  get the cMyArray from me -- cMyArray is some multi-dimensional array
>>>  ...
>>> end someHandler
>>> 
>>> OR
>>> 
>>> To retrieve an array from a script local variable?
>>> As in:
>>> local sMyArray -- script local variable in some objects script
>>> 
>>> command someHandler -- in an objects script
>>>  get sMyArray
>>>  ...
>>> end someHandler
>>> 
>>> Anyone know?
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From craig at starfirelighting.com  Fri Dec 15 09:28:47 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2023 09:28:47 -0500
Subject: Which is faster...
In-Reply-To: <97739B91-D628-4173-BC8D-F8D2529F31B3@iotecdigital.com>
References: <719ea94e-6473-4ce2-a992-8bc371c8c446@researchware.com>
 <C5D56BA7-22A0-4D4C-A33D-6533F511ADF8@iotecdigital.com>
 <204ed529-064d-4ad0-a693-fee00f02fe94@researchware.com>
 <3B75B569-02F5-4B34-B45C-98A674F39669@starfirelighting.com>
 <97739B91-D628-4173-BC8D-F8D2529F31B3@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <173CC9FA-DEF0-401A-AAB2-06E100810286@starfirelighting.com>

OK, I see what you mean.

I set a custom property of the card to the array I used earlier. It takes almost no time at all to put the contents of that property into a variable. It is not relevant whether it is a script local variable or not.

Bottom line, I do not think it makes any difference whether one uses a custom property or a variable to hold data in terms of the speed in which that data is retrieved.

Craig

> On Dec 14, 2023, at 7:33 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> That is not exactly the test he was looking for. He wants to compare retrieving an array from a script local variable vs. getting a property of an object like a stack, that contains the same array. At least I think that is the question. 
> 
> Now I’d like to discuss virtual properties. It takes the form: 
> 
> Local lValueA
> 
> setProp myVirtualProperty, pValueA
>   Put pValueA into lValueA
> End setProp
> 
> The reason this is really handy is because if pValueA is an array, you can then use the form: 
> 
> getProp myVirtualProperty [pKey]
>   If pKey is not empty then 
>      Return lValueA [pKey]
>   Else
>      Return tValueA
> End getProp
> 
> In other words, you can get elements of the array without getting the entire array itself i.e.:
> 
> Put the myVirtualProperty [“companyname”] of myLivecodeObject into tCompanyName
> 
> I use this quite extensively. I have a single card which contains all the currently queried database data for caching purposes, along with the currently selected indexes for each datagrid, and the currently selected primary keys. I call the getProp and setProp handlers maingriddata. So I can:
> 
> Get the maingriddata [“hilitedkeys”] of tMainCard
> Get the maingriddata [“hilitedindexes”] of tMainCard
> Get the maingriddata [“customers”]
> Put the queriedCustomersA into tMainGridDataA
> Set the maingriddata to tMainGridDataA
> 
> And so forth. Any kind of logic can be used in the getProp and setProp handlers. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
>> On Dec 14, 2023, at 2:25 PM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Anything to distract me from my day job.
>> 
>> An array with 100,000 elements and a variable with 100,00 lines take the same time to place into a field.
>> 
>> The only time that took a while was building them. Each took 10 milliseconds.
>> 
>> Craig
>> 
>>> On Dec 14, 2023, at 4:55 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Bob,
>>> 
>>> Thank you. I could script a timing test but sometime just asking the list or forums is easier. You asnwered well before I would have had the time to write a basic test script. Thanks!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 12/14/2023 4:45 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> I think the confusion comes from thinking so much of a stack as an object that has substance, when really all the properties are places in memory just like a memory variable is. I asked this some years back and the answer I got was that there is no appreciable difference.
>>>> 
>>>> One could always devise a test though…
>>>> 
>>>> Bob S
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Dec 14, 2023, at 1:22 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Which is faster or more efficient (from an engine performance perspective)?
>>>> 
>>>> To retrieve an array from a property?
>>>> As in:
>>>> command someHandler -- in an objects script
>>>> get the cMyArray from me -- cMyArray is some multi-dimensional array
>>>> ...
>>>> end someHandler
>>>> 
>>>> OR
>>>> 
>>>> To retrieve an array from a script local variable?
>>>> As in:
>>>> local sMyArray -- script local variable in some objects script
>>>> 
>>>> command someHandler -- in an objects script
>>>> get sMyArray
>>>> ...
>>>> end someHandler
>>>> 
>>>> Anyone know?
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From mark at livecode.com  Fri Dec 15 10:00:06 2023
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2023 15:00:06 +0000
Subject: Which is faster...
In-Reply-To: <719ea94e-6473-4ce2-a992-8bc371c8c446@researchware.com>
References: <719ea94e-6473-4ce2-a992-8bc371c8c446@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <38212f935bbe92a232d82be36e50a603@livecode.com>

On 2023-12-14 21:22, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
> Which is faster or more efficient (from an engine performance 
> perspective)?
> 
> To retrieve an array from a property?
> As in:
> command someHandler -- in an objects script
>   get the cMyArray from me -- cMyArray is some multi-dimensional array
>   ...
> end someHandler
> 
> OR
> 
> To retrieve an array from a script local variable?
> As in:
> local sMyArray -- script local variable in some objects script
> 
> command someHandler -- in an objects script
>   get sMyArray
>   ...
> end someHandler
> 
> Anyone know?

Fetching a value directly from a variable will always be faster than any 
other method - as it essentially reduces to fetching or storing a value 
from a (integer indexed) table.

In contrast, fetching a custom property will require a message send 
unless lock messages is set, and then an array lookup (to actually get 
the property's value).

Custom property sets are stored using the same data structure internally 
as livecode arrays so getting `the cMyArray of me` eventually reduces to 
the same as objectsCurrentPropertySet["cMyArray"] - the latter lookup is 
more work than just fetching a value from an internal table.

UPSHOT:

Fetching a value directly from a variable is a constant time operation.

If lock messages is false, then the time it takes to fetch a custom 
property value will be somewhat proportional to the length of the 
message path from the point of view of the object you are accessing - 
i.e. how many frontscripts, backscripts, stacks in use, and parent 
objects/behaviors the object has.

If lock messages is true, then the time it takes to fetch a custom 
property value will be pretty much the same as doing an LC array key 
lookup.

Now whether or not this actually matters in any one case will largely 
depend on how often such access is being done - if its a few times in 
the context of UI-related code then it probably won't be appreciable; 
if, however, you are fetching a custom property 100000's of times in a 
tight loop and the rest of the loop is only doing small amounts of work, 
you'll definitely notice a difference.

SIMPLE BENCHMARK:

```

on mouseUp
local sMyArray

on mouseUp
    set the cMyArray of me to [ 1, 2, 3 ]
    put empty

    local tTime
    put the milliseconds into tTime
    repeat 1000000 times
       get the cMyArray of me
    end repeat
    put "CUSTOM PROP:" && the milliseconds - tTime & return after msg

    put the milliseconds into tTime
    lock messages
    repeat 1000000 times
       get the cMyArray of me
    end repeat
    unlock messages
    put "CUSTOM PROP (LOCKED OUTSIDE):" && the milliseconds - tTime & 
return after msg

    put the milliseconds into tTime
    repeat 1000000 times
       lock messages
       get the cMyArray of me
       unlock messages
    end repeat
    put "CUSTOM PROP (LOCKED INSIDE):" && the milliseconds - tTime & 
return after msg

    local tMyProps
    put [ 1, 2, 3 ] into tMyProps["cMyArray"]
    put the milliseconds into tTime
    repeat 1000000 times
       get sMyArray["cMyArray"]
    end repeat
    put "ARRAY ELEMENT:" && the milliseconds - tTime & return after msg

    put the milliseconds into tTime
    lock messages
    repeat 1000000 times
       get sMyArray
    end repeat
    unlock messages
    put "SCRIPT LOCAL:" && the milliseconds - tTime & return after msg
end mouseUp
end mouseUp
```

RESULTS (1 million iterations):

CUSTOM PROP: 2006
CUSTOM PROP (LOCKED OUTSIDE): 116
CUSTOM PROP (LOCKED INSIDE): 125
ARRAY ELEMENT: 80
SCRIPT LOCAL: 38

ANALYSIS:

The above results are run in the IDE which is important to mention 
because the message path in the IDE is typically longer than that in 
standalones (as the all extension libraries are loaded, and the IDE 
inserts its own front/back/stacks into the message path).

Accessing custom properties with messages locked is nearly 10x faster 
than without (again that multiplier will be vary with the length of the 
message path).

Using lock/unlock messages for every custom property access has a (quite 
negligible) 10% overhead - and the message path overhead (in the IDE) is 
about 40% of the total (the array element fetch will be the rest).

Accessing a script local is
   - about 50x faster than accessing a custom property when messages are 
sent
   - about 3x faster than accessing a custom property when messages are 
not sent
   - about 2x faster than accessing an array element

Just to reiterate - these figures are for 1,000,000 accesses done in a 
tight loop (in the IDE). If you do it for (say) 1000 iterations then the 
differences are within the margin of error of measuring a millisecond.

Overall, my suggestion would be probably to do a combination of both - 
if you are only reading from a custom property in a given loop, but are 
doing so multiple times for the same property (and the loop actually has 
a very high number of iterations!) then fetch into a local variable 
before the loop and then use that value (the same, to be fair, is true 
of calling functions which return fixed values and accessing array 
elements - especially ones on paths longer than one).

Hope this helps,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things


From craig at starfirelighting.com  Fri Dec 15 10:35:00 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2023 10:35:00 -0500
Subject: Which is faster...
In-Reply-To: <38212f935bbe92a232d82be36e50a603@livecode.com>
References: <719ea94e-6473-4ce2-a992-8bc371c8c446@researchware.com>
 <38212f935bbe92a232d82be36e50a603@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <2F785484-0752-4ED8-BA6C-631D3C4489E2@starfirelighting.com>

This is why LCMark gets the big bucks.

Craig

> On Dec 15, 2023, at 10:00 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> On 2023-12-14 21:22, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
>> Which is faster or more efficient (from an engine performance perspective)?
>> To retrieve an array from a property?
>> As in:
>> command someHandler -- in an objects script
>>   get the cMyArray from me -- cMyArray is some multi-dimensional array
>>   ...
>> end someHandler
>> OR
>> To retrieve an array from a script local variable?
>> As in:
>> local sMyArray -- script local variable in some objects script
>> command someHandler -- in an objects script
>>   get sMyArray
>>   ...
>> end someHandler
>> Anyone know?
> 
> Fetching a value directly from a variable will always be faster than any other method - as it essentially reduces to fetching or storing a value from a (integer indexed) table.
> 
> In contrast, fetching a custom property will require a message send unless lock messages is set, and then an array lookup (to actually get the property's value).
> 
> Custom property sets are stored using the same data structure internally as livecode arrays so getting `the cMyArray of me` eventually reduces to the same as objectsCurrentPropertySet["cMyArray"] - the latter lookup is more work than just fetching a value from an internal table.
> 
> UPSHOT:
> 
> Fetching a value directly from a variable is a constant time operation.
> 
> If lock messages is false, then the time it takes to fetch a custom property value will be somewhat proportional to the length of the message path from the point of view of the object you are accessing - i.e. how many frontscripts, backscripts, stacks in use, and parent objects/behaviors the object has.
> 
> If lock messages is true, then the time it takes to fetch a custom property value will be pretty much the same as doing an LC array key lookup.
> 
> Now whether or not this actually matters in any one case will largely depend on how often such access is being done - if its a few times in the context of UI-related code then it probably won't be appreciable; if, however, you are fetching a custom property 100000's of times in a tight loop and the rest of the loop is only doing small amounts of work, you'll definitely notice a difference.
> 
> SIMPLE BENCHMARK:
> 
> ```
> 
> on mouseUp
> local sMyArray
> 
> on mouseUp
>   set the cMyArray of me to [ 1, 2, 3 ]
>   put empty
> 
>   local tTime
>   put the milliseconds into tTime
>   repeat 1000000 times
>      get the cMyArray of me
>   end repeat
>   put "CUSTOM PROP:" && the milliseconds - tTime & return after msg
> 
>   put the milliseconds into tTime
>   lock messages
>   repeat 1000000 times
>      get the cMyArray of me
>   end repeat
>   unlock messages
>   put "CUSTOM PROP (LOCKED OUTSIDE):" && the milliseconds - tTime & return after msg
> 
>   put the milliseconds into tTime
>   repeat 1000000 times
>      lock messages
>      get the cMyArray of me
>      unlock messages
>   end repeat
>   put "CUSTOM PROP (LOCKED INSIDE):" && the milliseconds - tTime & return after msg
> 
>   local tMyProps
>   put [ 1, 2, 3 ] into tMyProps["cMyArray"]
>   put the milliseconds into tTime
>   repeat 1000000 times
>      get sMyArray["cMyArray"]
>   end repeat
>   put "ARRAY ELEMENT:" && the milliseconds - tTime & return after msg
> 
>   put the milliseconds into tTime
>   lock messages
>   repeat 1000000 times
>      get sMyArray
>   end repeat
>   unlock messages
>   put "SCRIPT LOCAL:" && the milliseconds - tTime & return after msg
> end mouseUp
> end mouseUp
> ```
> 
> RESULTS (1 million iterations):
> 
> CUSTOM PROP: 2006
> CUSTOM PROP (LOCKED OUTSIDE): 116
> CUSTOM PROP (LOCKED INSIDE): 125
> ARRAY ELEMENT: 80
> SCRIPT LOCAL: 38
> 
> ANALYSIS:
> 
> The above results are run in the IDE which is important to mention because the message path in the IDE is typically longer than that in standalones (as the all extension libraries are loaded, and the IDE inserts its own front/back/stacks into the message path).
> 
> Accessing custom properties with messages locked is nearly 10x faster than without (again that multiplier will be vary with the length of the message path).
> 
> Using lock/unlock messages for every custom property access has a (quite negligible) 10% overhead - and the message path overhead (in the IDE) is about 40% of the total (the array element fetch will be the rest).
> 
> Accessing a script local is
>  - about 50x faster than accessing a custom property when messages are sent
>  - about 3x faster than accessing a custom property when messages are not sent
>  - about 2x faster than accessing an array element
> 
> Just to reiterate - these figures are for 1,000,000 accesses done in a tight loop (in the IDE). If you do it for (say) 1000 iterations then the differences are within the margin of error of measuring a millisecond.
> 
> Overall, my suggestion would be probably to do a combination of both - if you are only reading from a custom property in a given loop, but are doing so multiple times for the same property (and the loop actually has a very high number of iterations!) then fetch into a local variable before the loop and then use that value (the same, to be fair, is true of calling functions which return fixed values and accessing array elements - especially ones on paths longer than one).
> 
> Hope this helps,
> 
> Mark.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Build Amazing Things
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From paul at researchware.com  Fri Dec 15 10:53:42 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2023 10:53:42 -0500
Subject: Which is faster...
In-Reply-To: <38212f935bbe92a232d82be36e50a603@livecode.com>
References: <719ea94e-6473-4ce2-a992-8bc371c8c446@researchware.com>
 <38212f935bbe92a232d82be36e50a603@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <f1634811-971b-4c16-b380-422e439eda1b@researchware.com>

And that is THE DEFINITIVE answer!

Wow! Thank you.

On 12/15/2023 10:00 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:
> On 2023-12-14 21:22, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
>> Which is faster or more efficient (from an engine performance 
>> perspective)?
>>
>> To retrieve an array from a property?
>> As in:
>> command someHandler -- in an objects script
>>   get the cMyArray from me -- cMyArray is some multi-dimensional array
>>   ...
>> end someHandler
>>
>> OR
>>
>> To retrieve an array from a script local variable?
>> As in:
>> local sMyArray -- script local variable in some objects script
>>
>> command someHandler -- in an objects script
>>   get sMyArray
>>   ...
>> end someHandler
>>
>> Anyone know?
>
> Fetching a value directly from a variable will always be faster than 
> any other method - as it essentially reduces to fetching or storing a 
> value from a (integer indexed) table.
>
> In contrast, fetching a custom property will require a message send 
> unless lock messages is set, and then an array lookup (to actually get 
> the property's value).
>
> Custom property sets are stored using the same data structure 
> internally as livecode arrays so getting `the cMyArray of me` 
> eventually reduces to the same as 
> objectsCurrentPropertySet["cMyArray"] - the latter lookup is more work 
> than just fetching a value from an internal table.
>
> UPSHOT:
>
> Fetching a value directly from a variable is a constant time operation.
>
> If lock messages is false, then the time it takes to fetch a custom 
> property value will be somewhat proportional to the length of the 
> message path from the point of view of the object you are accessing - 
> i.e. how many frontscripts, backscripts, stacks in use, and parent 
> objects/behaviors the object has.
>
> If lock messages is true, then the time it takes to fetch a custom 
> property value will be pretty much the same as doing an LC array key 
> lookup.
>
> Now whether or not this actually matters in any one case will largely 
> depend on how often such access is being done - if its a few times in 
> the context of UI-related code then it probably won't be appreciable; 
> if, however, you are fetching a custom property 100000's of times in a 
> tight loop and the rest of the loop is only doing small amounts of 
> work, you'll definitely notice a difference.
>
> SIMPLE BENCHMARK:
>
> ```
>
> on mouseUp
> local sMyArray
>
> on mouseUp
>    set the cMyArray of me to [ 1, 2, 3 ]
>    put empty
>
>    local tTime
>    put the milliseconds into tTime
>    repeat 1000000 times
>       get the cMyArray of me
>    end repeat
>    put "CUSTOM PROP:" && the milliseconds - tTime & return after msg
>
>    put the milliseconds into tTime
>    lock messages
>    repeat 1000000 times
>       get the cMyArray of me
>    end repeat
>    unlock messages
>    put "CUSTOM PROP (LOCKED OUTSIDE):" && the milliseconds - tTime & 
> return after msg
>
>    put the milliseconds into tTime
>    repeat 1000000 times
>       lock messages
>       get the cMyArray of me
>       unlock messages
>    end repeat
>    put "CUSTOM PROP (LOCKED INSIDE):" && the milliseconds - tTime & 
> return after msg
>
>    local tMyProps
>    put [ 1, 2, 3 ] into tMyProps["cMyArray"]
>    put the milliseconds into tTime
>    repeat 1000000 times
>       get sMyArray["cMyArray"]
>    end repeat
>    put "ARRAY ELEMENT:" && the milliseconds - tTime & return after msg
>
>    put the milliseconds into tTime
>    lock messages
>    repeat 1000000 times
>       get sMyArray
>    end repeat
>    unlock messages
>    put "SCRIPT LOCAL:" && the milliseconds - tTime & return after msg
> end mouseUp
> end mouseUp
> ```
>
> RESULTS (1 million iterations):
>
> CUSTOM PROP: 2006
> CUSTOM PROP (LOCKED OUTSIDE): 116
> CUSTOM PROP (LOCKED INSIDE): 125
> ARRAY ELEMENT: 80
> SCRIPT LOCAL: 38
>
> ANALYSIS:
>
> The above results are run in the IDE which is important to mention 
> because the message path in the IDE is typically longer than that in 
> standalones (as the all extension libraries are loaded, and the IDE 
> inserts its own front/back/stacks into the message path).
>
> Accessing custom properties with messages locked is nearly 10x faster 
> than without (again that multiplier will be vary with the length of 
> the message path).
>
> Using lock/unlock messages for every custom property access has a 
> (quite negligible) 10% overhead - and the message path overhead (in 
> the IDE) is about 40% of the total (the array element fetch will be 
> the rest).
>
> Accessing a script local is
>   - about 50x faster than accessing a custom property when messages 
> are sent
>   - about 3x faster than accessing a custom property when messages are 
> not sent
>   - about 2x faster than accessing an array element
>
> Just to reiterate - these figures are for 1,000,000 accesses done in a 
> tight loop (in the IDE). If you do it for (say) 1000 iterations then 
> the differences are within the margin of error of measuring a 
> millisecond.
>
> Overall, my suggestion would be probably to do a combination of both - 
> if you are only reading from a custom property in a given loop, but 
> are doing so multiple times for the same property (and the loop 
> actually has a very high number of iterations!) then fetch into a 
> local variable before the loop and then use that value (the same, to 
> be fair, is true of calling functions which return fixed values and 
> accessing array elements - especially ones on paths longer than one).
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Mark.
>



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Dec 15 11:03:55 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2023 16:03:55 +0000
Subject: Which is faster...
In-Reply-To: <38212f935bbe92a232d82be36e50a603@livecode.com>
References: <719ea94e-6473-4ce2-a992-8bc371c8c446@researchware.com>
 <38212f935bbe92a232d82be36e50a603@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <9094107A-B464-42BC-8062-09F91E73309D@iotecdigital.com>

Good point. I always put data I intend to work on in a local variable anyway so it becomes easier to debug. As far as 1,000,000 iterations, I cannot imagine what anyone developing in Livecode who would want to do that inline with any other process. But then I failed 6th grade math, sooo….. there’s that.

Bob S


<snip>

On Dec 15, 2023, at 7:00 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

Overall, my suggestion would be probably to do a combination of both - if you are only reading from a custom property in a given loop, but are doing so multiple times for the same property (and the loop actually has a very high number of iterations!) then fetch into a local variable before the loop and then use that value (the same, to be fair, is true of calling functions which return fixed values and accessing array elements - especially ones on paths longer than one).

Hope this helps,

Mark.

--
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com<mailto:mark at livecode.com> ~ http://www.livecode.com/


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Dec 15 11:21:24 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2023 16:21:24 +0000
Subject: Which is faster...
In-Reply-To: <38212f935bbe92a232d82be36e50a603@livecode.com>
References: <719ea94e-6473-4ce2-a992-8bc371c8c446@researchware.com>
 <38212f935bbe92a232d82be36e50a603@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <D3D8FEBA-DC09-424C-BFA9-45C6179993AA@iotecdigital.com>

Ah! Another mystery solved. My app runs as a standalone considerably faster that in the IDE.

Bob S


On Dec 15, 2023, at 7:00 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

The above results are run in the IDE which is important to mention because the message path in the IDE is typically longer than that in standalones (as the all extension libraries are loaded, and the IDE inserts its own front/back/stacks into the message path).


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Dec 15 11:44:25 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2023 16:44:25 +0000
Subject: addData in Datagrids
Message-ID: <CEA32E84-0E35-47CF-993F-7E4B98B66C25@iotecdigital.com>

Hi all. 

Datagrids have a command called addData which adds a line to the end of a datagrid. It returns the line number. 

Afterwards I ought to be able to do this”

...
Set the dghilitedIndex of me to tFoundIndex — this is a valid integer
Put the dgDataOfIndex [tFoundIndex] of me into tMyArrayA
…

HOWEVER…

tMyArrayA is empty! How can that be??? I quit Livecode and tested this in a new stack so it’s not any of my code doing ths. 

Bob S


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Dec 15 11:49:28 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2023 16:49:28 +0000
Subject: addData in Datagrids
In-Reply-To: <CEA32E84-0E35-47CF-993F-7E4B98B66C25@iotecdigital.com>
References: <CEA32E84-0E35-47CF-993F-7E4B98B66C25@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <87F8772E-3D95-49EB-A1DF-C14F8A4BFA77@iotecdigital.com>

NVM. Apparently I have to send an array as an argument. Odd, it seems like it ought to create a new record with its own array structure. 

Bob S


> On Dec 15, 2023, at 8:44 AM, Bob Sneidar <bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi all. 
> 
> Datagrids have a command called addData which adds a line to the end of a datagrid. It returns the line number. 
> 
> Afterwards I ought to be able to do this”
> 
> ...
> Set the dghilitedIndex of me to tFoundIndex — this is a valid integer
> Put the dgDataOfIndex [tFoundIndex] of me into tMyArrayA
> …
> 
> HOWEVER…
> 
> tMyArrayA is empty! How can that be??? I quit Livecode and tested this in a new stack so it’s not any of my code doing ths. 
> 
> Bob S
> 


From tom at makeshyft.com  Fri Dec 15 12:17:16 2023
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2023 12:17:16 -0500
Subject: unable to unfold arrays in debugger?
Message-ID: <CAPzQJL+BWTSgARZsP2=6pmNECpf9wdqSWyHFuEgJTde7KgmV-A@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Peeps,

I'm having a strange experience where while debugging, I click on the arrow
to unfold array variables in the debugger, and nothing happens.
Once the debugger gets into this state, I must leave the card and come back.
it begins as soon as the debugger starts, but remains after the debugger
has stopped.  Now I have to leave the card/
When I come back to the card, the array variables unfold as expected until
the debugger starts again.
It seems to happen only on 1 particular card and no other.

Sigh.
How can I figure this out?
Has anyone ever experienced this?

Thanks,

Tom

From tom at makeshyft.com  Fri Dec 15 12:31:41 2023
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2023 12:31:41 -0500
Subject: unable to unfold arrays in debugger?
In-Reply-To: <CAPzQJL+BWTSgARZsP2=6pmNECpf9wdqSWyHFuEgJTde7KgmV-A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPzQJL+BWTSgARZsP2=6pmNECpf9wdqSWyHFuEgJTde7KgmV-A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPzQJL+NUnyMzXQaEqNCVYOLR00vvGRTwY_drO=kNVQLpCnkBA@mail.gmail.com>

Hmmm, I just discovered that while this state is occurring, unfolding
Project Browser groups also does not work.

On Fri, Dec 15, 2023 at 12:17 PM Tom Glod <tom at makeshyft.com> wrote:

> Hey Peeps,
>
> I'm having a strange experience where while debugging, I click on the
> arrow to unfold array variables in the debugger, and nothing happens.
> Once the debugger gets into this state, I must leave the card and come
> back.
> it begins as soon as the debugger starts, but remains after the debugger
> has stopped.  Now I have to leave the card/
> When I come back to the card, the array variables unfold as expected until
> the debugger starts again.
> It seems to happen only on 1 particular card and no other.
>
> Sigh.
> How can I figure this out?
> Has anyone ever experienced this?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tom
>

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Dec 15 13:18:52 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2023 12:18:52 -0600
Subject: Which is faster...
In-Reply-To: <38212f935bbe92a232d82be36e50a603@livecode.com>
References: <719ea94e-6473-4ce2-a992-8bc371c8c446@researchware.com>
 <38212f935bbe92a232d82be36e50a603@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <18c6eb3e2e0.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

I asked this back in the early MetaCard days and received a one word 
answer: "variables". It's nice to know the reason behind it, and that it 
hasn't changed.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On December 15, 2023 9:01:34 AM Mark Waddingham via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> Fetching a value directly from a variable will always be faster than any
> other method - as it essentially reduces to fetching or storing a value
> from a (integer indexed) table.




From klaus at major-k.de  Sat Dec 16 09:51:33 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2023 15:51:33 +0100
Subject: tsneterr: (3) URL using bad/illegal format or missing URL
Message-ID: <CF01FEB1-782D-4316-9328-FDF363428641@major-k.de>

Hi friends,

I am trying to upload a (not so long) urlencoded text list
to my server, but get the tsNet error as in the subject.

In the form of:
...
## Remove spaces etc.
put clean_name(tSetlist) into tDateiname
put "whatever" & CR & urlencode(fld "setlist") into tInhalt
put "https://www.MYSERVER.de/setlists.lc?name=" & tDateiname & "&setlist=" & tInhalt into tUrl
...

The LC server script:
-------------------------------------
<?lc
	put $_GET["name"] into tName
	put $_GET["setlist"] into tSetList
	put "OK" into tAntwort
	try
		put tSetList into url("file:" & tName)
	catch tProblem
		put tProblem into tAntwort
	end try
	put tAntwort	
?>
----------------------------------------

The error comes from LC and NOT from the server, tAnwort = EMPTY!

The URL is definitively correct!
Is the urlencoded string in tInhalt too long for a parameter?
Or is a CR in that parameter not a good idea?

Any hints very appreciated, thanks in advance.


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From klaus at major-k.de  Sat Dec 16 10:50:49 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2023 16:50:49 +0100
Subject: tsneterr: (3) URL using bad/illegal format or missing URL
In-Reply-To: <CF01FEB1-782D-4316-9328-FDF363428641@major-k.de>
References: <CF01FEB1-782D-4316-9328-FDF363428641@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <80CAECD4-AE24-4E0F-9424-9331E52B3BED@major-k.de>

Followup:
I checked fo "illegal" character like @ ' etc., still no joy.
This has been working two weeks ago!

> Am 16.12.2023 um 15:51 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi friends,
> 
> I am trying to upload a (not so long) urlencoded text list
> to my server, but get the tsNet error as in the subject.
> 
> In the form of:
> ...
> ## Remove spaces etc.
> put clean_name(tSetlist) into tDateiname
> put "whatever" & CR & urlencode(fld "setlist") into tInhalt
> put "https://www.MYSERVER.de/setlists.lc?name=" & tDateiname & "&setlist=" & tInhalt into tUrl
> ...
> 
> The LC server script:
> -------------------------------------
> <?lc
> 	put $_GET["name"] into tName
> 	put $_GET["setlist"] into tSetList
> 	put "OK" into tAntwort
> 	try
> 		put tSetList into url("file:" & tName)
> 	catch tProblem
> 		put tProblem into tAntwort
> 	end try
> 	put tAntwort	
> ?>
> ----------------------------------------
> 
> The error comes from LC and NOT from the server, tAnwort = EMPTY!
> 
> The URL is definitively correct!
> Is the urlencoded string in tInhalt too long for a parameter?
> Or is a CR in that parameter not a good idea?
> 
> Any hints very appreciated, thanks in advance.
> 
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From klaus at major-k.de  Sat Dec 16 11:37:29 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2023 17:37:29 +0100
Subject: tsneterr: (3) URL using bad/illegal format or missing URL
In-Reply-To: <80CAECD4-AE24-4E0F-9424-9331E52B3BED@major-k.de>
References: <CF01FEB1-782D-4316-9328-FDF363428641@major-k.de>
 <80CAECD4-AE24-4E0F-9424-9331E52B3BED@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <AF2A8EEB-A20C-44C7-8739-C581E955E3B1@major-k.de>

Should I use a different format to pass the CR delimited list to the LC script?
If yes, which one?

> Am 16.12.2023 um 16:50 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Followup:
> I checked fo "illegal" character like @ ' etc., still no joy.
> This has been working two weeks ago!
> 
>> Am 16.12.2023 um 15:51 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Hi friends,
>> 
>> I am trying to upload a (not so long) urlencoded text list
>> to my server, but get the tsNet error as in the subject.
>> 
>> In the form of:
>> ...
>> ## Remove spaces etc.
>> put clean_name(tSetlist) into tDateiname
>> put "whatever" & CR & urlencode(fld "setlist") into tInhalt
>> put "https://www.MYSERVER.de/setlists.lc?name=" & tDateiname & "&setlist=" & tInhalt into tUrl
>> ...
>> 
>> The LC server script:
>> -------------------------------------
>> <?lc
>> 	put $_GET["name"] into tName
>> 	put $_GET["setlist"] into tSetList
>> 	put "OK" into tAntwort
>> 	try
>> 		put tSetList into url("file:" & tName)
>> 	catch tProblem
>> 		put tProblem into tAntwort
>> 	end try
>> 	put tAntwort	
>> ?>
>> ----------------------------------------
>> 
>> The error comes from LC and NOT from the server, tAnwort = EMPTY!
>> 
>> The URL is definitively correct!
>> Is the urlencoded string in tInhalt too long for a parameter?
>> Or is a CR in that parameter not a good idea?
>> 
>> Any hints very appreciated, thanks in advance.
>> 
>> 
>> Best
>> 
>> Klaus
>> --
>> Klaus Major
>> https://www.major-k.de
>> https://www.major-k.de/bass
>> klaus at major-k.de
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com  Sat Dec 16 13:43:02 2023
From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal)
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2023 19:43:02 +0100
Subject: Should I upgrade to Xcode 15.0 or 15.1?
Message-ID: <A9C3AAA8-3DDE-4697-9FA3-33868C1AB5CF@gmail.com>

Hi all,

I’ve just taken the step to MacOS Sonoma (14.2), and now intend to upgrade Xcode from 14.x to 15. 
But I'm unsure of which version to go for, as the latest LC release notes say Xcode 15.0 and LC is usually quite picky about it.
I don’t want to download and install all the gigabytes of Xcode 15.1 (which is the latest) just to discover that I really need 15.0

Actually, the release notes don’t even mention MacOS 14.2 as a valid version for iOS deployment, so an additional question is if I’ve already burnt that bridge by going Sonoma, until LC catches up…?

Please advise. :)

/Andreas

From paul at researchware.com  Sat Dec 16 13:54:53 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2023 13:54:53 -0500
Subject: Should I upgrade to Xcode 15.0 or 15.1?
In-Reply-To: <A9C3AAA8-3DDE-4697-9FA3-33868C1AB5CF@gmail.com>
References: <A9C3AAA8-3DDE-4697-9FA3-33868C1AB5CF@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43442429-7afd-4ecb-ae09-3ddb880658e2@researchware.com>

For the purposes of notarization of macOS apps, I have seen no 
difference between Xcode 15 and 15.1 under Sonoma on a macBook Air (M1 
processor)

I don't developer iOS apps though, nor do I use Xcode for anything other 
than code signing, notarization, and stapling of macOS desktop apps


On 12/16/2023 1:43 PM, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Ive just taken the step to MacOS Sonoma (14.2), and now intend to upgrade Xcode from 14.x to 15.
> But I'm unsure of which version to go for, as the latest LC release notes say Xcode 15.0 and LC is usually quite picky about it.
> I dont want to download and install all the gigabytes of Xcode 15.1 (which is the latest) just to discover that I really need 15.0
>
> Actually, the release notes dont even mention MacOS 14.2 as a valid version for iOS deployment, so an additional question is if Ive already burnt that bridge by going Sonoma, until LC catches up?
>
> Please advise. :)
>
> /Andreas
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Sat Dec 16 17:29:10 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2023 23:29:10 +0100
Subject: tsneterr: (3) URL using bad/illegal format or missing URL
In-Reply-To: <AF2A8EEB-A20C-44C7-8739-C581E955E3B1@major-k.de>
References: <CF01FEB1-782D-4316-9328-FDF363428641@major-k.de>
 <80CAECD4-AE24-4E0F-9424-9331E52B3BED@major-k.de>
 <AF2A8EEB-A20C-44C7-8739-C581E955E3B1@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <8F267754-AA33-43F3-9715-73C2B54ACC37@m-r-d.de>

Hello Klaus,

You could try to post the data as a file  to the server. There is an array $_files in Livecode server available, which handles the file uploads.

Regards,
Matthias

> Am 16.12.2023 um 17:37 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Should I use a different format to pass the CR delimited list to the LC script?
> If yes, which one?
> 
>> Am 16.12.2023 um 16:50 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Followup:
>> I checked fo "illegal" character like @ ' etc., still no joy.
>> This has been working two weeks ago!
>> 
>>> Am 16.12.2023 um 15:51 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> Hi friends,
>>> 
>>> I am trying to upload a (not so long) urlencoded text list
>>> to my server, but get the tsNet error as in the subject.
>>> 
>>> In the form of:
>>> ...
>>> ## Remove spaces etc.
>>> put clean_name(tSetlist) into tDateiname
>>> put "whatever" & CR & urlencode(fld "setlist") into tInhalt
>>> put "https://www.MYSERVER.de/setlists.lc?name=" & tDateiname & "&setlist=" & tInhalt into tUrl
>>> ...
>>> 
>>> The LC server script:
>>> -------------------------------------
>>> <?lc
>>> 	put $_GET["name"] into tName
>>> 	put $_GET["setlist"] into tSetList
>>> 	put "OK" into tAntwort
>>> 	try
>>> 		put tSetList into url("file:" & tName)
>>> 	catch tProblem
>>> 		put tProblem into tAntwort
>>> 	end try
>>> 	put tAntwort	
>>> ?>
>>> ----------------------------------------
>>> 
>>> The error comes from LC and NOT from the server, tAnwort = EMPTY!
>>> 
>>> The URL is definitively correct!
>>> Is the urlencoded string in tInhalt too long for a parameter?
>>> Or is a CR in that parameter not a good idea?
>>> 
>>> Any hints very appreciated, thanks in advance.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Best
>>> 
>>> Klaus
>>> --
>>> Klaus Major
>>> https://www.major-k.de
>>> https://www.major-k.de/bass
>>> klaus at major-k.de
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> --
>> Klaus Major
>> https://www.major-k.de
>> https://www.major-k.de/bass
>> klaus at major-k.de
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From klaus at major-k.de  Sun Dec 17 04:18:03 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2023 10:18:03 +0100
Subject: tsneterr: (3) URL using bad/illegal format or missing URL
In-Reply-To: <8F267754-AA33-43F3-9715-73C2B54ACC37@m-r-d.de>
References: <CF01FEB1-782D-4316-9328-FDF363428641@major-k.de>
 <80CAECD4-AE24-4E0F-9424-9331E52B3BED@major-k.de>
 <AF2A8EEB-A20C-44C7-8739-C581E955E3B1@major-k.de>
 <8F267754-AA33-43F3-9715-73C2B54ACC37@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <E2D774CE-00B7-439D-BD8A-8BE88BEC168D@major-k.de>

Hi Matthias,

> Am 16.12.2023 um 23:29 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hello Klaus,
> 
> You could try to post the data as a file  to the server. There is an array $_files in Livecode server available, which handles the file uploads.

ah, sounds promising, thank you! :-)
I wanted to post the list directly from an LC field, but can surely store its content to a temp file.

But how is the syntax in my case?
...
put clean_name(tSetlist) into tDateiname 
## = filename on server

## put "whatever" & CR & urlencode(fld "setlist") into tInhalt
put "https://www.MYSERVER.de/setlists.lc?name=" & tDateiname & "&setlist=" & url("file:" & path to file") into tURL #?
## Nothing in the dictionary about this
...

> Regards,
> Matthias

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From alex at tweedly.net  Sun Dec 17 06:22:30 2023
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2023 11:22:30 +0000
Subject: tsneterr: (3) URL using bad/illegal format or missing URL
In-Reply-To: <CF01FEB1-782D-4316-9328-FDF363428641@major-k.de>
References: <CF01FEB1-782D-4316-9328-FDF363428641@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <537b8d15-8913-4d8a-9f88-707cf0eb01fa@tweedly.net>


On 16/12/2023 14:51, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi friends,
>
> I am trying to upload a (not so long) urlencoded text list
> to my server, but get the tsNet error as in the subject.
>
> In the form of:
> ...
> ## Remove spaces etc.
> put clean_name(tSetlist) into tDateiname
> put "whatever" & CR & urlencode(fld "setlist") into tInhalt
> put "https://www.MYSERVER.de/setlists.lc?name=" & tDateiname & "&setlist=" & tInhalt into tUrl
> ...
> ...
>
> The error comes from LC and NOT from the server, tAnwort = EMPTY!
>
> The URL is definitively correct!
> Is the urlencoded string in tInhalt too long for a parameter?
> Or is a CR in that parameter not a good idea?

The CR in the parameter is a bad idea.

Instead of

put "whatever" & CR & urlencode(fld "setlist") into tInhalt

would you not be better doing

put urlencode("whatever" &CR & fld "setlist") into tInhalt


(I can't reproduce the error here, so I can't be sure if this fixes it 
or not - but the CR in the url is definitely a bad idea).


Alex.




From klaus at major-k.de  Sun Dec 17 06:33:53 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2023 12:33:53 +0100
Subject: tsneterr: (3) URL using bad/illegal format or missing URL
In-Reply-To: <537b8d15-8913-4d8a-9f88-707cf0eb01fa@tweedly.net>
References: <CF01FEB1-782D-4316-9328-FDF363428641@major-k.de>
 <537b8d15-8913-4d8a-9f88-707cf0eb01fa@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <ECEE4A71-32B6-4F3D-B075-91A7B4FF520B@major-k.de>

Hi Alex,

> Am 17.12.2023 um 12:22 schrieb Alex Tweedly via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> 
> On 16/12/2023 14:51, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hi friends,
>> 
>> I am trying to upload a (not so long) urlencoded text list
>> to my server, but get the tsNet error as in the subject.
>> 
>> In the form of:
>> ...
>> ## Remove spaces etc.
>> put clean_name(tSetlist) into tDateiname
>> put "whatever" & CR & urlencode(fld "setlist") into tInhalt
>> put "https://www.MYSERVER.de/setlists.lc?name=" & tDateiname & "&setlist=" & tInhalt into tUrl
>> ...
>> ...
>> 
>> The error comes from LC and NOT from the server, tAnwort = EMPTY!
>> 
>> The URL is definitively correct!
>> Is the urlencoded string in tInhalt too long for a parameter?
>> Or is a CR in that parameter not a good idea?
> 
> The CR in the parameter is a bad idea.
> 
> Instead of
> put "whatever" & CR & urlencode(fld "setlist") into tInhalt
> would you not be better doing
> put urlencode("whatever" &CR & fld "setlist") into tInhalt
> (I can't reproduce the error here, so I can't be sure if this fixes it or not - but the CR in the url is definitely a bad idea).

YES, that did the trick, thank you very much!
Have a nice sunday!

> Alex.

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Sun Dec 17 06:45:00 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2023 12:45:00 +0100
Subject: tsneterr: (3) URL using bad/illegal format or missing URL
In-Reply-To: <E2D774CE-00B7-439D-BD8A-8BE88BEC168D@major-k.de>
References: <CF01FEB1-782D-4316-9328-FDF363428641@major-k.de>
 <80CAECD4-AE24-4E0F-9424-9331E52B3BED@major-k.de>
 <AF2A8EEB-A20C-44C7-8739-C581E955E3B1@major-k.de>
 <8F267754-AA33-43F3-9715-73C2B54ACC37@m-r-d.de>
 <E2D774CE-00B7-439D-BD8A-8BE88BEC168D@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <AEA6441B-8C97-486E-A5E1-3CDED5BD5BCD@m-r-d.de>

Hello Klaus.

please see the example below. In my example i am posting a zip file with images to a livecode server script

Livecode script

on mouseup
   answer file "Select zip file..."
   if it is empty then exit to top
   put "<file>" & it into tArchive
   if libUrlMultiPartFormData(tForm,"Archive", tArchive) is not empty then
      altlog the long system time & " - error:" & it
   else
      set the httpHeaders to line 1 of tForm 
      altlog the long system time & " - Upload gestartet"
      post line 2 to -1 of tForm to url "https://MYSERVER.COM/upload_bilder.lc"
      put it into  postResult
      set the httpHeaders to empty
      
      switch postResult
         case   postResult begins with "Bildupload fehlgeschlagen" is true
         ## your script for upload error
         break
         case  postResult begins with "Bildupload okay" is true
         ## your script for successful upload
            break
    	end switch
   end if
end mouseup 


Livecode Server script

<?lc
set the errorMode to "inline"
-- check for errors
if $_Files["Archive"][error] is not empty
	then
	-- this output will be used as return value by the mouseup script
		put "Upload-Fehler"  
		
		put the long system time && "- Upload-Fehler - " & $_files["Archive"][error] &return after URL "file:uploaderror.txt"
	else
		put $_Files["Archive"][name] into tFileName
	
       -- check if the correct file was uploaded
	 -- in our case we always  upload a file with same name
	  if tFileName= "bilder_ohne_logo.zip" 
		then 
		-- this output will be used as return value by the mouseup script
			put "Bildupload okay"
			-- here comes the script for processing the uploaded file....
			-- e.g.
			put URL ("binfile:"&tFilename) into URL ("binfile:/home/xxxxxx/public_html/bilder_ohne_logo.zip")			
			exit to top
		end if
?>

I hope there is no error in my example. I simplified my original code for the above example.

In my original version the complete upload and the processing of the uploaded file is automatic w/o user interaction. 
The desktop app creates a zip file and posts that zip file to a Livecode Server script which just handles the upload and then returns a success or failure.
According to the upload script my standalone then calls another script on the server for further processing.


Regards,
Matthias


		

> Am 17.12.2023 um 10:18 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi Matthias,
> 
>> Am 16.12.2023 um 23:29 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Hello Klaus,
>> 
>> You could try to post the data as a file  to the server. There is an array $_files in Livecode server available, which handles the file uploads.
> 
> ah, sounds promising, thank you! :-)
> I wanted to post the list directly from an LC field, but can surely store its content to a temp file.
> 
> But how is the syntax in my case?
> ...
> put clean_name(tSetlist) into tDateiname 
> ## = filename on server
> 
> ## put "whatever" & CR & urlencode(fld "setlist") into tInhalt
> put "https://www.MYSERVER.de/setlists.lc?name=" & tDateiname & "&setlist=" & url("file:" & path to file") into tURL #?
> ## Nothing in the dictionary about this
> ...
> 
>> Regards,
>> Matthias
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From klaus at major-k.de  Sun Dec 17 06:49:31 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2023 12:49:31 +0100
Subject: tsneterr: (3) URL using bad/illegal format or missing URL
In-Reply-To: <AEA6441B-8C97-486E-A5E1-3CDED5BD5BCD@m-r-d.de>
References: <CF01FEB1-782D-4316-9328-FDF363428641@major-k.de>
 <80CAECD4-AE24-4E0F-9424-9331E52B3BED@major-k.de>
 <AF2A8EEB-A20C-44C7-8739-C581E955E3B1@major-k.de>
 <8F267754-AA33-43F3-9715-73C2B54ACC37@m-r-d.de>
 <E2D774CE-00B7-439D-BD8A-8BE88BEC168D@major-k.de>
 <AEA6441B-8C97-486E-A5E1-3CDED5BD5BCD@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <810AA7FE-03C9-49D2-BF81-A652EDDD20D9@major-k.de>

Hi Matthias,

thank you very much!

Since Alex already spotted my problem, I will store this for future reference.

> Am 17.12.2023 um 12:45 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hello Klaus.
> 
> please see the example below. In my example i am posting a zip file with images to a livecode server script
> Livecode script
> on mouseup
>  ...
> I hope there is no error in my example. I simplified my original code for the above example.
> 
> In my original version the complete upload and the processing of the uploaded file is automatic w/o user interaction. 
> The desktop app creates a zip file and posts that zip file to a Livecode Server script which just handles the upload and then returns a success or failure.
> According to the upload script my standalone then calls another script on the server for further processing.
> 
> Regards,
> Matthias

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Sun Dec 17 10:48:22 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2023 10:48:22 -0500
Subject: Should I upgrade to Xcode 15.0 or 15.1?
In-Reply-To: <43442429-7afd-4ecb-ae09-3ddb880658e2@researchware.com>
References: <A9C3AAA8-3DDE-4697-9FA3-33868C1AB5CF@gmail.com>
 <43442429-7afd-4ecb-ae09-3ddb880658e2@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycP+1W+eEX3_SQeHPoP45b3-mgtaYaNm6FTHPBjeY75g4w@mail.gmail.com>

can lc 9.6.11 use both 15 and 15.1?
i've been holding off on updating to sonoma

On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at 1:55 PM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> For the purposes of notarization of macOS apps, I have seen no
> difference between Xcode 15 and 15.1 under Sonoma on a macBook Air (M1
> processor)
>
> I don't developer iOS apps though, nor do I use Xcode for anything other
> than code signing, notarization, and stapling of macOS desktop apps
>
>
> On 12/16/2023 1:43 PM, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I’ve just taken the step to MacOS Sonoma (14.2), and now intend to
> upgrade Xcode from 14.x to 15.
> > But I'm unsure of which version to go for, as the latest LC release
> notes say Xcode 15.0 and LC is usually quite picky about it.
> > I don’t want to download and install all the gigabytes of Xcode 15.1
> (which is the latest) just to discover that I really need 15.0
> >
> > Actually, the release notes don’t even mention MacOS 14.2 as a valid
> version for iOS deployment, so an additional question is if I’ve already
> burnt that bridge by going Sonoma, until LC catches up…?
> >
> > Please advise. :)
> >
> > /Andreas
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From heather at livecode.com  Mon Dec 18 12:11:37 2023
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2023 17:11:37 +0000
Subject: Should I upgrade to Xcode 15.0 or 15.1?
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycP+1W+eEX3_SQeHPoP45b3-mgtaYaNm6FTHPBjeY75g4w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <A9C3AAA8-3DDE-4697-9FA3-33868C1AB5CF@gmail.com>
 <43442429-7afd-4ecb-ae09-3ddb880658e2@researchware.com>
 <CADCoycP+1W+eEX3_SQeHPoP45b3-mgtaYaNm6FTHPBjeY75g4w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E663A1B3-F670-4BDA-A1C9-3088DE36AE0D@livecode.com>

Folks, you should upgrade to Xcode 15.0 not 15.1 - see this table (top FAQ):


https://livecode.com/resources/support/ask-a-question/



Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 17 Dec 2023, at 15:48, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> can lc 9.6.11 use both 15 and 15.1?
> i've been holding off on updating to sonoma
> 
> On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at 1:55 PM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> For the purposes of notarization of macOS apps, I have seen no
>> difference between Xcode 15 and 15.1 under Sonoma on a macBook Air (M1
>> processor)
>> 
>> I don't developer iOS apps though, nor do I use Xcode for anything other
>> than code signing, notarization, and stapling of macOS desktop apps
>> 
>> 
>> On 12/16/2023 1:43 PM, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> I’ve just taken the step to MacOS Sonoma (14.2), and now intend to
>> upgrade Xcode from 14.x to 15.
>>> But I'm unsure of which version to go for, as the latest LC release
>> notes say Xcode 15.0 and LC is usually quite picky about it.
>>> I don’t want to download and install all the gigabytes of Xcode 15.1
>> (which is the latest) just to discover that I really need 15.0
>>> 
>>> Actually, the release notes don’t even mention MacOS 14.2 as a valid
>> version for iOS deployment, so an additional question is if I’ve already
>> burnt that bridge by going Sonoma, until LC catches up…?
>>> 
>>> Please advise. :)
>>> 
>>> /Andreas
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>   and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From paul at researchware.com  Mon Dec 18 12:47:12 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2023 12:47:12 -0500
Subject: Should I upgrade to Xcode 15.0 or 15.1?
In-Reply-To: <E663A1B3-F670-4BDA-A1C9-3088DE36AE0D@livecode.com>
References: <A9C3AAA8-3DDE-4697-9FA3-33868C1AB5CF@gmail.com>
 <43442429-7afd-4ecb-ae09-3ddb880658e2@researchware.com>
 <CADCoycP+1W+eEX3_SQeHPoP45b3-mgtaYaNm6FTHPBjeY75g4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E663A1B3-F670-4BDA-A1C9-3088DE36AE0D@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <55ab9c7d-cd27-4d28-9cd7-57e193c3f30a@researchware.com>

FYI Heather,

The "What are the System Requirements for LiveCode? 
<https://livecode.com/resources/support/ask-a-question/#group_739>" 
table needs an update for current macOS and Windows versions.

On 12/18/2023 12:11 PM, Heather Laine via use-livecode wrote:
> Folks, you should upgrade to Xcode 15.0 not 15.1 - see this table (top FAQ):
>
>
> https://livecode.com/resources/support/ask-a-question/
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Heather
>
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
>
>
>
>> On 17 Dec 2023, at 15:48, Mike Kerner via use-livecode<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>  wrote:
>>
>> can lc 9.6.11 use both 15 and 15.1?
>> i've been holding off on updating to sonoma
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at 1:55PM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>>> For the purposes of notarization of macOS apps, I have seen no
>>> difference between Xcode 15 and 15.1 under Sonoma on a macBook Air (M1
>>> processor)
>>>
>>> I don't developer iOS apps though, nor do I use Xcode for anything other
>>> than code signing, notarization, and stapling of macOS desktop apps
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/16/2023 1:43 PM, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> Ive just taken the step to MacOS Sonoma (14.2), and now intend to
>>> upgrade Xcode from 14.x to 15.
>>>> But I'm unsure of which version to go for, as the latest LC release
>>> notes say Xcode 15.0 and LC is usually quite picky about it.
>>>> I dont want to download and install all the gigabytes of Xcode 15.1
>>> (which is the latest) just to discover that I really need 15.0
>>>> Actually, the release notes dont even mention MacOS 14.2 as a valid
>>> version for iOS deployment, so an additional question is if Ive already
>>> burnt that bridge by going Sonoma, until LC catches up?
>>>> Please advise. :)
>>>>
>>>> /Andreas
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>>
>> -- 
>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
>> On the second day, God created the oceans.
>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>>    and did a little diving.
>> And God said, "This is good."
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com  Mon Dec 18 15:43:58 2023
From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal)
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2023 21:43:58 +0100
Subject: Should I upgrade to Xcode 15.0 or 15.1?
In-Reply-To: <E663A1B3-F670-4BDA-A1C9-3088DE36AE0D@livecode.com>
References: <A9C3AAA8-3DDE-4697-9FA3-33868C1AB5CF@gmail.com>
 <43442429-7afd-4ecb-ae09-3ddb880658e2@researchware.com>
 <CADCoycP+1W+eEX3_SQeHPoP45b3-mgtaYaNm6FTHPBjeY75g4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E663A1B3-F670-4BDA-A1C9-3088DE36AE0D@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <8EDB9DC6-D53C-4209-8786-3008C71BD64A@gmail.com>

Thanks, Heather! I was just about to ask if there didn’t use to be a table available somewhere, where this stuff was sorted out. And there it was! :D

/Andreas

> 18 dec. 2023 kl. 18:11 skrev Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Folks, you should upgrade to Xcode 15.0 not 15.1 - see this table (top FAQ):
> 
> 
> https://livecode.com/resources/support/ask-a-question/
> 
> 
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On 17 Dec 2023, at 15:48, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> can lc 9.6.11 use both 15 and 15.1?
>> i've been holding off on updating to sonoma
>> 
>> On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at 1:55 PM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> For the purposes of notarization of macOS apps, I have seen no
>>> difference between Xcode 15 and 15.1 under Sonoma on a macBook Air (M1
>>> processor)
>>> 
>>> I don't developer iOS apps though, nor do I use Xcode for anything other
>>> than code signing, notarization, and stapling of macOS desktop apps
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 12/16/2023 1:43 PM, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> 
>>>> I’ve just taken the step to MacOS Sonoma (14.2), and now intend to
>>> upgrade Xcode from 14.x to 15.
>>>> But I'm unsure of which version to go for, as the latest LC release
>>> notes say Xcode 15.0 and LC is usually quite picky about it.
>>>> I don’t want to download and install all the gigabytes of Xcode 15.1
>>> (which is the latest) just to discover that I really need 15.0
>>>> 
>>>> Actually, the release notes don’t even mention MacOS 14.2 as a valid
>>> version for iOS deployment, so an additional question is if I’ve already
>>> burnt that bridge by going Sonoma, until LC catches up…?
>>>> 
>>>> Please advise. :)
>>>> 
>>>> /Andreas
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
>> On the second day, God created the oceans.
>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>>  and did a little diving.
>> And God said, "This is good."
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com  Thu Dec 21 08:41:52 2023
From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal)
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2023 14:41:52 +0100
Subject: Should I upgrade to Xcode 15.0 or 15.1?
In-Reply-To: <E663A1B3-F670-4BDA-A1C9-3088DE36AE0D@livecode.com>
References: <A9C3AAA8-3DDE-4697-9FA3-33868C1AB5CF@gmail.com>
 <43442429-7afd-4ecb-ae09-3ddb880658e2@researchware.com>
 <CADCoycP+1W+eEX3_SQeHPoP45b3-mgtaYaNm6FTHPBjeY75g4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E663A1B3-F670-4BDA-A1C9-3088DE36AE0D@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <B0783957-A8D5-42D1-8EB6-AB00891EFF3E@gmail.com>

Just for fun, and because Mermaid is my new toy, I threw together a small web stack that shows the various LC-Xcode-macOS-iOS combinations in a sankey diagram, where you can also change the order of how they are displayed.

I added some Xcode versions that are NOT compatible with LiveCode too, just as extra info (and to get more data points).

I don’t know if it adds any insights beyond what you can simply see in the table Heather linked to, but it was a suitable set of data for the sankey format, and also a proof of concept that running Mermaid code in a browser widget deployed to web works flawlessly. :)

See it here: https://wheninspace.com/LCXcode/

/Andreas



> 18 dec. 2023 kl. 18:11 skrev Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Folks, you should upgrade to Xcode 15.0 not 15.1 - see this table (top FAQ):
> 
> 
> https://livecode.com/resources/support/ask-a-question/
> 
> 
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather



From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Thu Dec 21 09:48:09 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2023 14:48:09 +0000
Subject: Should I upgrade to Xcode 15.0 or 15.1?
In-Reply-To: <B0783957-A8D5-42D1-8EB6-AB00891EFF3E@gmail.com>
References: <A9C3AAA8-3DDE-4697-9FA3-33868C1AB5CF@gmail.com>
 <43442429-7afd-4ecb-ae09-3ddb880658e2@researchware.com>
 <CADCoycP+1W+eEX3_SQeHPoP45b3-mgtaYaNm6FTHPBjeY75g4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E663A1B3-F670-4BDA-A1C9-3088DE36AE0D@livecode.com>
 <B0783957-A8D5-42D1-8EB6-AB00891EFF3E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3E71C1D9-1C95-4C03-A92A-00151803748A@gmail.com>

That does look like fun. Very clever layout. 

> On 21 Dec 2023, at 1:41 pm, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Just for fun, and because Mermaid is my new toy, I threw together a small web stack that shows the various LC-Xcode-macOS-iOS combinations in a sankey diagram, where you can also change the order of how they are displayed.
> 
> I added some Xcode versions that are NOT compatible with LiveCode too, just as extra info (and to get more data points).
> 
> I don’t know if it adds any insights beyond what you can simply see in the table Heather linked to, but it was a suitable set of data for the sankey format, and also a proof of concept that running Mermaid code in a browser widget deployed to web works flawlessly. :)
> 
> See it here: https://wheninspace.com/LCXcode/
> 
> /Andreas
> 
> 
> 
>> 18 dec. 2023 kl. 18:11 skrev Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Folks, you should upgrade to Xcode 15.0 not 15.1 - see this table (top FAQ):
>> 
>> 
>> https://livecode.com/resources/support/ask-a-question/
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Best Regards,
>> 
>> Heather
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Thu Dec 21 10:37:01 2023
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2023 10:37:01 -0500
Subject: Should I upgrade to Xcode 15.0 or 15.1?
In-Reply-To: <B0783957-A8D5-42D1-8EB6-AB00891EFF3E@gmail.com>
References: <A9C3AAA8-3DDE-4697-9FA3-33868C1AB5CF@gmail.com>
 <43442429-7afd-4ecb-ae09-3ddb880658e2@researchware.com>
 <CADCoycP+1W+eEX3_SQeHPoP45b3-mgtaYaNm6FTHPBjeY75g4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E663A1B3-F670-4BDA-A1C9-3088DE36AE0D@livecode.com>
 <B0783957-A8D5-42D1-8EB6-AB00891EFF3E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <003401da3423$8d8b3060$a8a19120$@net>

Very Nice! This should be on the LC Lesson site. Very helpful for new users.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2023 8:42 AM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Andreas Bergendal
Subject: Re: Should I upgrade to Xcode 15.0 or 15.1?

Just for fun, and because Mermaid is my new toy, I threw together a small web stack that shows the various LC-Xcode-macOS-iOS combinations in a sankey diagram, where you can also change the order of how they are displayed.

I added some Xcode versions that are NOT compatible with LiveCode too, just as extra info (and to get more data points).

I don’t know if it adds any insights beyond what you can simply see in the table Heather linked to, but it was a suitable set of data for the sankey format, and also a proof of concept that running Mermaid code in a browser widget deployed to web works flawlessly. :)

See it here: https://wheninspace.com/LCXcode/

/Andreas



> 18 dec. 2023 kl. 18:11 skrev Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Folks, you should upgrade to Xcode 15.0 not 15.1 - see this table (top FAQ):
> 
> 
> https://livecode.com/resources/support/ask-a-question/
> 
> 
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather


_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu Dec 21 14:05:46 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2023 19:05:46 +0000
Subject: Should I upgrade to Xcode 15.0 or 15.1?
In-Reply-To: <B0783957-A8D5-42D1-8EB6-AB00891EFF3E@gmail.com>
References: <A9C3AAA8-3DDE-4697-9FA3-33868C1AB5CF@gmail.com>
 <43442429-7afd-4ecb-ae09-3ddb880658e2@researchware.com>
 <CADCoycP+1W+eEX3_SQeHPoP45b3-mgtaYaNm6FTHPBjeY75g4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E663A1B3-F670-4BDA-A1C9-3088DE36AE0D@livecode.com>
 <B0783957-A8D5-42D1-8EB6-AB00891EFF3E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A3C1D5CC-CC17-4789-ADFC-280A0BE5A4D8@iotecdigital.com>

That’s pretty useful, but also dismaying. I’m kind of glad now, because my slothfulness had me put off any attempt to make an iOS version of Forms Generator. That is all a lot to consider. Not only am I bound to rebuild for every version of my app, I am also bound to rebuild based on every iOS, MacOS and Xcode versions. No thank you please. 

Of course I am not selling my apps so it doesn’t matter very much to me. For those of us that produce commercial apps, it matters very much. 

Bob S


> On Dec 21, 2023, at 5:41 AM, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Just for fun, and because Mermaid is my new toy, I threw together a small web stack that shows the various LC-Xcode-macOS-iOS combinations in a sankey diagram, where you can also change the order of how they are displayed.
> 
> I added some Xcode versions that are NOT compatible with LiveCode too, just as extra info (and to get more data points).
> 
> I don’t know if it adds any insights beyond what you can simply see in the table Heather linked to, but it was a suitable set of data for the sankey format, and also a proof of concept that running Mermaid code in a browser widget deployed to web works flawlessly. :)
> 
> See it here: https://wheninspace.com/LCXcode/
> 
> /Andreas
> 
> 
> 
>> 18 dec. 2023 kl. 18:11 skrev Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Folks, you should upgrade to Xcode 15.0 not 15.1 - see this table (top FAQ):
>> 
>> 
>> https://livecode.com/resources/support/ask-a-question/
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Best Regards,
>> 
>> Heather
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu Dec 21 14:28:01 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2023 19:28:01 +0000
Subject: Should I upgrade to Xcode 15.0 or 15.1?
In-Reply-To: <A3C1D5CC-CC17-4789-ADFC-280A0BE5A4D8@iotecdigital.com>
References: <A9C3AAA8-3DDE-4697-9FA3-33868C1AB5CF@gmail.com>
 <43442429-7afd-4ecb-ae09-3ddb880658e2@researchware.com>
 <CADCoycP+1W+eEX3_SQeHPoP45b3-mgtaYaNm6FTHPBjeY75g4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E663A1B3-F670-4BDA-A1C9-3088DE36AE0D@livecode.com>
 <B0783957-A8D5-42D1-8EB6-AB00891EFF3E@gmail.com>
 <A3C1D5CC-CC17-4789-ADFC-280A0BE5A4D8@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <F44EB8FD-D58D-414C-BE4E-2A896D769335@iotecdigital.com>

BTW I should add that I do not think this is Livecode’s fault. I imagine every developer for every platform has to deal with this, and now it’s all bled over to desktop apps as well. Seems like forced obsolescence to me. Unmaintained apps get deleted from the store, and therefore from end user’s mobile devices. How convenient for Apple. 

Bob S


> On Dec 21, 2023, at 11:05 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> That’s pretty useful, but also dismaying. I’m kind of glad now, because my slothfulness had me put off any attempt to make an iOS version of Forms Generator. That is all a lot to consider. Not only am I bound to rebuild for every version of my app, I am also bound to rebuild based on every iOS, MacOS and Xcode versions. No thank you please. 
> 
> Of course I am not selling my apps so it doesn’t matter very much to me. For those of us that produce commercial apps, it matters very much. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Dec 21, 2023, at 5:41 AM, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Just for fun, and because Mermaid is my new toy, I threw together a small web stack that shows the various LC-Xcode-macOS-iOS combinations in a sankey diagram, where you can also change the order of how they are displayed.
>> 
>> I added some Xcode versions that are NOT compatible with LiveCode too, just as extra info (and to get more data points).
>> 
>> I don’t know if it adds any insights beyond what you can simply see in the table Heather linked to, but it was a suitable set of data for the sankey format, and also a proof of concept that running Mermaid code in a browser widget deployed to web works flawlessly. :)
>> 
>> See it here: https://wheninspace.com/LCXcode/
>> 
>> /Andreas
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> 18 dec. 2023 kl. 18:11 skrev Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> Folks, you should upgrade to Xcode 15.0 not 15.1 - see this table (top FAQ):
>>> 
>>> 
>>> https://livecode.com/resources/support/ask-a-question/
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Best Regards,
>>> 
>>> Heather
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com  Thu Dec 21 15:24:46 2023
From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal)
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2023 21:24:46 +0100
Subject: Should I upgrade to Xcode 15.0 or 15.1?
In-Reply-To: <F44EB8FD-D58D-414C-BE4E-2A896D769335@iotecdigital.com>
References: <A9C3AAA8-3DDE-4697-9FA3-33868C1AB5CF@gmail.com>
 <43442429-7afd-4ecb-ae09-3ddb880658e2@researchware.com>
 <CADCoycP+1W+eEX3_SQeHPoP45b3-mgtaYaNm6FTHPBjeY75g4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E663A1B3-F670-4BDA-A1C9-3088DE36AE0D@livecode.com>
 <B0783957-A8D5-42D1-8EB6-AB00891EFF3E@gmail.com>
 <A3C1D5CC-CC17-4789-ADFC-280A0BE5A4D8@iotecdigital.com>
 <F44EB8FD-D58D-414C-BE4E-2A896D769335@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <A93DFC13-17E1-46F6-8F8E-E7073AFA7824@gmail.com>

It may not be as bad as it looks, as an app can survive several iOS upgrades without needing to be rebuilt. I have an app in AppStore that I think was targeted at iOS 14, and didn’t malfunction until iOS 17 came. I then rebuilt it targeting iOS 16 (as 17 was not yet supported by the LC deployment chain at the time), and it still works like a charm. 

Since that app had been doing fine for two years, all certificates and provisioning profiles and whatnot had expired, so I had to jump through all the Apple hoops again to get a valid build. It then transferred to TestFlight on the first attempt (!!!), and was approved for AppStore by Apple review within 24 hours. 

All in all I had the new version up and pushed to users in three days, after discovering the blocking iOS 17 bug. (I don’t know what the bug was, I was just hoping that rebuilding with a newer LC version for an iOS version closer to 17 would fix it, and thankfully it did.)

Just to share that positive experiences are still possible, even though I totally agree that iOS deployment still IS a hassle.

I enjoy web deployment much more, and LC10 is getting better and better at that.

/Andreas


> 21 dec. 2023 kl. 20:28 skrev Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> BTW I should add that I do not think this is Livecode’s fault. I imagine every developer for every platform has to deal with this, and now it’s all bled over to desktop apps as well. Seems like forced obsolescence to me. Unmaintained apps get deleted from the store, and therefore from end user’s mobile devices. How convenient for Apple. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Dec 21, 2023, at 11:05 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> That’s pretty useful, but also dismaying. I’m kind of glad now, because my slothfulness had me put off any attempt to make an iOS version of Forms Generator. That is all a lot to consider. Not only am I bound to rebuild for every version of my app, I am also bound to rebuild based on every iOS, MacOS and Xcode versions. No thank you please. 
>> 
>> Of course I am not selling my apps so it doesn’t matter very much to me. For those of us that produce commercial apps, it matters very much. 
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>> 
>>> On Dec 21, 2023, at 5:41 AM, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Just for fun, and because Mermaid is my new toy, I threw together a small web stack that shows the various LC-Xcode-macOS-iOS combinations in a sankey diagram, where you can also change the order of how they are displayed.
>>> 
>>> I added some Xcode versions that are NOT compatible with LiveCode too, just as extra info (and to get more data points).
>>> 
>>> I don’t know if it adds any insights beyond what you can simply see in the table Heather linked to, but it was a suitable set of data for the sankey format, and also a proof of concept that running Mermaid code in a browser widget deployed to web works flawlessly. :)
>>> 
>>> See it here: https://wheninspace.com/LCXcode/
>>> 
>>> /Andreas
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 18 dec. 2023 kl. 18:11 skrev Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>> 
>>>> Folks, you should upgrade to Xcode 15.0 not 15.1 - see this table (top FAQ):
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> https://livecode.com/resources/support/ask-a-question/
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Best Regards,
>>>> 
>>>> Heather


From jiml at netrin.com  Thu Dec 21 16:26:56 2023
From: jiml at netrin.com (Jim Lambert)
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2023 13:26:56 -0800
Subject: Should I upgrade to Xcode 15.0 or 15.1?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1703178001.72710.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.1.1703178001.72710.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <105AD7B9-ABE1-476C-BEFF-52EE33C2A6AD@netrin.com>

> Ralph wrote:
> 
> Very Nice! This should be on the LC Lesson site.

++1

Jim Lambert


From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Thu Dec 21 17:18:16 2023
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2023 17:18:16 -0500
Subject: Should I upgrade to Xcode 15.0 or 15.1?
In-Reply-To: <A93DFC13-17E1-46F6-8F8E-E7073AFA7824@gmail.com>
References: <A9C3AAA8-3DDE-4697-9FA3-33868C1AB5CF@gmail.com>
 <43442429-7afd-4ecb-ae09-3ddb880658e2@researchware.com>
 <CADCoycP+1W+eEX3_SQeHPoP45b3-mgtaYaNm6FTHPBjeY75g4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E663A1B3-F670-4BDA-A1C9-3088DE36AE0D@livecode.com>
 <B0783957-A8D5-42D1-8EB6-AB00891EFF3E@gmail.com>
 <A3C1D5CC-CC17-4789-ADFC-280A0BE5A4D8@iotecdigital.com>
 <F44EB8FD-D58D-414C-BE4E-2A896D769335@iotecdigital.com>
 <A93DFC13-17E1-46F6-8F8E-E7073AFA7824@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <005801da345b$9c201ef0$d4605cd0$@net>

I've had the about the same iOS experience. Annoying, yes. Not so bad after doing it once.

I can't believe what you Mac OS developers go though. The only thing I staple is some pine rope on the fireplace mantle.


Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net


-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2023 3:25 PM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Andreas Bergendal
Subject: Re: Should I upgrade to Xcode 15.0 or 15.1?

It may not be as bad as it looks, as an app can survive several iOS upgrades without needing to be rebuilt. I have an app in AppStore that I think was targeted at iOS 14, and didn’t malfunction until iOS 17 came. I then rebuilt it targeting iOS 16 (as 17 was not yet supported by the LC deployment chain at the time), and it still works like a charm. 

Since that app had been doing fine for two years, all certificates and provisioning profiles and whatnot had expired, so I had to jump through all the Apple hoops again to get a valid build. It then transferred to TestFlight on the first attempt (!!!), and was approved for AppStore by Apple review within 24 hours. 

All in all I had the new version up and pushed to users in three days, after discovering the blocking iOS 17 bug. (I don’t know what the bug was, I was just hoping that rebuilding with a newer LC version for an iOS version closer to 17 would fix it, and thankfully it did.)

Just to share that positive experiences are still possible, even though I totally agree that iOS deployment still IS a hassle.

I enjoy web deployment much more, and LC10 is getting better and better at that.

/Andreas


> 21 dec. 2023 kl. 20:28 skrev Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> BTW I should add that I do not think this is Livecode’s fault. I imagine every developer for every platform has to deal with this, and now it’s all bled over to desktop apps as well. Seems like forced obsolescence to me. Unmaintained apps get deleted from the store, and therefore from end user’s mobile devices. How convenient for Apple. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Dec 21, 2023, at 11:05 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> That’s pretty useful, but also dismaying. I’m kind of glad now, because my slothfulness had me put off any attempt to make an iOS version of Forms Generator. That is all a lot to consider. Not only am I bound to rebuild for every version of my app, I am also bound to rebuild based on every iOS, MacOS and Xcode versions. No thank you please. 
>> 
>> Of course I am not selling my apps so it doesn’t matter very much to me. For those of us that produce commercial apps, it matters very much. 
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>> 
>>> On Dec 21, 2023, at 5:41 AM, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Just for fun, and because Mermaid is my new toy, I threw together a small web stack that shows the various LC-Xcode-macOS-iOS combinations in a sankey diagram, where you can also change the order of how they are displayed.
>>> 
>>> I added some Xcode versions that are NOT compatible with LiveCode too, just as extra info (and to get more data points).
>>> 
>>> I don’t know if it adds any insights beyond what you can simply see in the table Heather linked to, but it was a suitable set of data for the sankey format, and also a proof of concept that running Mermaid code in a browser widget deployed to web works flawlessly. :)
>>> 
>>> See it here: https://wheninspace.com/LCXcode/
>>> 
>>> /Andreas
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 18 dec. 2023 kl. 18:11 skrev Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>> 
>>>> Folks, you should upgrade to Xcode 15.0 not 15.1 - see this table (top FAQ):
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> https://livecode.com/resources/support/ask-a-question/
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Best Regards,
>>>> 
>>>> Heather

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From alanstenhouse at hotmail.com  Thu Dec 21 20:53:16 2023
From: alanstenhouse at hotmail.com (Alan Stenhouse)
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2023 12:23:16 +1030
Subject: Application disappears unexpectedly (goes into background)
Message-ID: <TYZPR06MB6046B3704555F477F3768B6FA594A@TYZPR06MB6046.apcprd06.prod.outlook.com>

I've got a MacOS LC standalone that opens a stackfile external to the application. Whenever I click inside one of the stack windows which doesn't have current focus, all the stack windows disappear and reappear only when I switch to another application and back again. Activating a stack window by clicking on the window title bar works normally (i.e. does not disappear).

Has anyone else seen this at all? Any suggestions for tracking possible causes?

MacOS Ventura
Laptop M1
LC 10 dp... and LC9.11


Thanks a lot for any pointers!

cheers
Alan

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Dec 22 01:45:53 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2023 00:45:53 -0600
Subject: Application disappears unexpectedly (goes into background)
In-Reply-To: <TYZPR06MB6046B3704555F477F3768B6FA594A@TYZPR06MB6046.apcprd06.prod.outlook.com>
References: <TYZPR06MB6046B3704555F477F3768B6FA594A@TYZPR06MB6046.apcprd06.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <18c9045f4e8.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

Have you done a global search for the word "hide" in the scripts?

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On December 21, 2023 7:55:47 PM Alan Stenhouse via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I've got a MacOS LC standalone that opens a stackfile external to the 
> application. Whenever I click inside one of the stack windows which doesn't 
> have current focus, all the stack windows disappear and reappear only when 
> I switch to another application and back again. Activating a stack window 
> by clicking on the window title bar works normally (i.e. does not disappear).
>
> Has anyone else seen this at all? Any suggestions for tracking possible causes?
>
> MacOS Ventura
> Laptop M1
> LC 10 dp... and LC9.11
>
>
> Thanks a lot for any pointers!
>
> cheers
> Alan
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From craig at starfirelighting.com  Fri Dec 22 08:55:09 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2023 08:55:09 -0500
Subject: Application disappears unexpectedly (goes into background)
In-Reply-To: <18c9045f4e8.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <TYZPR06MB6046B3704555F477F3768B6FA594A@TYZPR06MB6046.apcprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <18c9045f4e8.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <897669BF-AA04-43AA-A5BC-464F7FEA5D16@starfirelighting.com>

Clicking on a titlebar sends no messages to LC, only to the OS, essentially saying “bring me to the front”.

The fact that all the card windows reappear when you do that seems very odd to me. If I hide a stack and then go somewhere else on my computer, that stack does not reappear just because I brought LC back to the front. Hidden stacks stay hidden until explicitly made visible, as they should.

Jacque’s  suggestion seems reasonable, but it seems like a long shot.

Have you tried restarting?

Can’t wait to hear how this (hopefully) resolves.

Craig

> On Dec 22, 2023, at 1:45 AM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Have you done a global search for the word "hide" in the scripts?
> 
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On December 21, 2023 7:55:47 PM Alan Stenhouse via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> I've got a MacOS LC standalone that opens a stackfile external to the application. Whenever I click inside one of the stack windows which doesn't have current focus, all the stack windows disappear and reappear only when I switch to another application and back again. Activating a stack window by clicking on the window title bar works normally (i.e. does not disappear).
>> 
>> Has anyone else seen this at all? Any suggestions for tracking possible causes?
>> 
>> MacOS Ventura
>> Laptop M1
>> LC 10 dp... and LC9.11
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks a lot for any pointers!
>> 
>> cheers
>> Alan
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From Mark at rauterkus.com  Fri Dec 22 10:43:44 2023
From: Mark at rauterkus.com (Mark Rauterkus)
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2023 10:43:44 -0500
Subject: Anyone ever put a token into the Apple Wallet and Play (Android)
 wallet?
Message-ID: <CAGV_Z3BUA37gx419tE_K4rgs3-_vXeFaiS1buMYTMQ-_uV7P_g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Wondering if there is a way to make a LiveCode app that can then generate a
membership card thingie / ticket for inclusion into the wallet of mobile
devices.

???

We need an affordable way to make an ID card. Needs to expire. Verification
doesn't need to be so iron-clad nor block-chain enabled.

Similar commercial app:
https://cuseum.com/

https://passkit.com/
https://help.passkit.com/

Might be more universal to have the membership card in your Apple Wallet or
Google thing on your Android phone.

They charge pennies per card. Then hook it to a backend database.

Wondering if this could be done with LiveCode too?

From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Dec 22 11:30:50 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2023 16:30:50 +0000
Subject: Application disappears unexpectedly (goes into background)
In-Reply-To: <897669BF-AA04-43AA-A5BC-464F7FEA5D16@starfirelighting.com>
References: <TYZPR06MB6046B3704555F477F3768B6FA594A@TYZPR06MB6046.apcprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <18c9045f4e8.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <897669BF-AA04-43AA-A5BC-464F7FEA5D16@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <1E3A2A4B-4E4D-4A49-8D67-8AFA68987F21@iotecdigital.com>

Well, resumeStack would trigger, wouldn’t it? 

Bob S


> On Dec 22, 2023, at 5:55 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Clicking on a titlebar sends no messages to LC, only to the OS, essentially saying “bring me to the front”.
> 
> The fact that all the card windows reappear when you do that seems very odd to me. If I hide a stack and then go somewhere else on my computer, that stack does not reappear just because I brought LC back to the front. Hidden stacks stay hidden until explicitly made visible, as they should.
> 
> Jacque’s  suggestion seems reasonable, but it seems like a long shot.
> 
> Have you tried restarting?
> 
> Can’t wait to hear how this (hopefully) resolves.
> 
> Craig
> 
>> On Dec 22, 2023, at 1:45 AM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Have you done a global search for the word "hide" in the scripts?
>> 
>> --
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>> On December 21, 2023 7:55:47 PM Alan Stenhouse via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I've got a MacOS LC standalone that opens a stackfile external to the application. Whenever I click inside one of the stack windows which doesn't have current focus, all the stack windows disappear and reappear only when I switch to another application and back again. Activating a stack window by clicking on the window title bar works normally (i.e. does not disappear).
>>> 
>>> Has anyone else seen this at all? Any suggestions for tracking possible causes?
>>> 
>>> MacOS Ventura
>>> Laptop M1
>>> LC 10 dp... and LC9.11
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Thanks a lot for any pointers!
>>> 
>>> cheers
>>> Alan
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From craig at starfirelighting.com  Fri Dec 22 11:44:10 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2023 11:44:10 -0500
Subject: Application disappears unexpectedly (goes into background)
In-Reply-To: <1E3A2A4B-4E4D-4A49-8D67-8AFA68987F21@iotecdigital.com>
References: <TYZPR06MB6046B3704555F477F3768B6FA594A@TYZPR06MB6046.apcprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <18c9045f4e8.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <897669BF-AA04-43AA-A5BC-464F7FEA5D16@starfirelighting.com>
 <1E3A2A4B-4E4D-4A49-8D67-8AFA68987F21@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <1C14EF33-B285-4A10-834D-F52035E05C4D@starfirelighting.com>

Bob.

Certainly, and I suppose that would be the place where Jacque's proposed “hide” commands might, er, hide.

Craig

> On Dec 22, 2023, at 11:30 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Well, resumeStack would trigger, wouldn’t it? 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Dec 22, 2023, at 5:55 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Clicking on a titlebar sends no messages to LC, only to the OS, essentially saying “bring me to the front”.
>> 
>> The fact that all the card windows reappear when you do that seems very odd to me. If I hide a stack and then go somewhere else on my computer, that stack does not reappear just because I brought LC back to the front. Hidden stacks stay hidden until explicitly made visible, as they should.
>> 
>> Jacque’s  suggestion seems reasonable, but it seems like a long shot.
>> 
>> Have you tried restarting?
>> 
>> Can’t wait to hear how this (hopefully) resolves.
>> 
>> Craig
>> 
>>> On Dec 22, 2023, at 1:45 AM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Have you done a global search for the word "hide" in the scripts?
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>> On December 21, 2023 7:55:47 PM Alan Stenhouse via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I've got a MacOS LC standalone that opens a stackfile external to the application. Whenever I click inside one of the stack windows which doesn't have current focus, all the stack windows disappear and reappear only when I switch to another application and back again. Activating a stack window by clicking on the window title bar works normally (i.e. does not disappear).
>>>> 
>>>> Has anyone else seen this at all? Any suggestions for tracking possible causes?
>>>> 
>>>> MacOS Ventura
>>>> Laptop M1
>>>> LC 10 dp... and LC9.11
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks a lot for any pointers!
>>>> 
>>>> cheers
>>>> Alan
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From craig at starfirelighting.com  Fri Dec 22 11:46:11 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2023 11:46:11 -0500
Subject: Anyone ever put a token into the Apple Wallet and Play (Android)
 wallet?
In-Reply-To: <CAGV_Z3BUA37gx419tE_K4rgs3-_vXeFaiS1buMYTMQ-_uV7P_g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGV_Z3BUA37gx419tE_K4rgs3-_vXeFaiS1buMYTMQ-_uV7P_g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <67E53A41-1702-40CF-8F76-B926EDD5901F@starfirelighting.com>

Could not help myself from being unhelpful.

I am positive LC can do this, whatever you meant.

Craig

> On Dec 22, 2023, at 10:43 AM, Mark Rauterkus via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Wondering if there is a way to make a LiveCode app that can then generate a
> membership card thingie / ticket for inclusion into the wallet of mobile
> devices.
> 
> ???
> 
> We need an affordable way to make an ID card. Needs to expire. Verification
> doesn't need to be so iron-clad nor block-chain enabled.
> 
> Similar commercial app:
> https://cuseum.com/
> 
> https://passkit.com/
> https://help.passkit.com/
> 
> Might be more universal to have the membership card in your Apple Wallet or
> Google thing on your Android phone.
> 
> They charge pennies per card. Then hook it to a backend database.
> 
> Wondering if this could be done with LiveCode too?
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu Dec 28 14:59:40 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2023 19:59:40 +0000
Subject: PDF Widget and Javascript
Message-ID: <A118EC0F-F83D-43DC-AD6A-11549681EEBB@iotecdigital.com>

Hi all. 

This is a long shot, but is there any kind of PDF gadget in Livecode that can run javascript? I am specifically wanting to generate an FDF file from fillable forms. The javascript is fairly straightforward: 

This.ExportAsFDF(true, false, null)

This will work in a javascript enabled PDF application and will use the currently open PDF fillable document, generating an FDF file named after the PDF name (without the dot3 extension) appended by “_data.fdf” 

It would be quite the luxury to be able to do this in Livecode, otherwise I have to pay for a licensed Pro version (I think they are all subscription based now) and the ONLY thing I need from the Pro version is this function. 

Bob S


From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Fri Dec 29 10:04:52 2023
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2023 10:04:52 -0500
Subject: PDF Widget and JavaScript
In-Reply-To: <A118EC0F-F83D-43DC-AD6A-11549681EEBB@iotecdigital.com>
References: <A118EC0F-F83D-43DC-AD6A-11549681EEBB@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <001301da3a68$6355d430$2a017c90$@net>

The last I knew the JavaScript engine is not implemented in the PDF widget.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Bob Sneidar via use-livecode
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2023 3:00 PM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Bob Sneidar
Subject: PDF Widget and Javascript

Hi all. 

This is a long shot, but is there any kind of PDF gadget in Livecode that can run javascript? I am specifically wanting to generate an FDF file from fillable forms. The javascript is fairly straightforward: 

This.ExportAsFDF(true, false, null)

This will work in a javascript enabled PDF application and will use the currently open PDF fillable document, generating an FDF file named after the PDF name (without the dot3 extension) appended by “_data.fdf” 

It would be quite the luxury to be able to do this in Livecode, otherwise I have to pay for a licensed Pro version (I think they are all subscription based now) and the ONLY thing I need from the Pro version is this function. 

Bob S

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Dec 29 11:38:56 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2023 16:38:56 +0000
Subject: PDF Widget and JavaScript
In-Reply-To: <001301da3a68$6355d430$2a017c90$@net>
References: <A118EC0F-F83D-43DC-AD6A-11549681EEBB@iotecdigital.com>
 <001301da3a68$6355d430$2a017c90$@net>
Message-ID: <CC0F87B4-9E16-42D9-B439-56C1AB8DB227@iotecdigital.com>

Thanks Ralph I figured as much. It’s actually not difficult to recreate from scratch if the structure, header and footer is known. The trouble is the fields. If I had a list of form controls for a given form, I could create one from scratch easily enough. 

The fillable forms have to be saved with an open file action to autofill, and if someone can do that, I suppose they already have the ability to export the fdf file using the javascript console in Acrobat Pro. 

Bob S


> On Dec 29, 2023, at 7:04 AM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> The last I knew the JavaScript engine is not implemented in the PDF widget.
> 
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Bob Sneidar via use-livecode
> Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2023 3:00 PM
> To: How to use LiveCode
> Cc: Bob Sneidar
> Subject: PDF Widget and Javascript
> 
> Hi all. 
> 
> This is a long shot, but is there any kind of PDF gadget in Livecode that can run javascript? I am specifically wanting to generate an FDF file from fillable forms. The javascript is fairly straightforward: 
> 
> This.ExportAsFDF(true, false, null)
> 
> This will work in a javascript enabled PDF application and will use the currently open PDF fillable document, generating an FDF file named after the PDF name (without the dot3 extension) appended by “_data.fdf” 
> 
> It would be quite the luxury to be able to do this in Livecode, otherwise I have to pay for a licensed Pro version (I think they are all subscription based now) and the ONLY thing I need from the Pro version is this function. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Dec 29 17:39:24 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2023 22:39:24 +0000
Subject: Message Sent when Resizing Widgets: Workaround
Message-ID: <974092CF-BF5B-4733-AA36-600C05E9E085@iotecdigital.com>

I have a kind of custom group composed of a segmented widget and a transparent button the exact size of the widget, the purpose of which is to be able to handle messages that are otherwise not sent to the widget. In fact almost NO messages are sent to a widget, a source of some consternation from users of this list. 

There are three issues with this, the first being that if there is a button on top of a widget, then no messages get sent directly from the engine to the widget at all! The second is that if I add more segments or resize the widget, the width of the overlay button also needs to match. The third issue is that if I click on the overlay button, I need to know, as in the case of a mouse click which segment was clicked on. 

To this end I wrote some handlers for the widget and the overlay button which allow you to handle any messages a button might receive and then process them for the widget. This is of course just a basic framework. The important handlers are resizeControl and the getProp clickedTab. 

Unfortunately, and although changing the size of the widget will send the resizeContol message to t he widget, editing the width in the widget’s properties palette does NOT send the message. The upshot is that if you make changes to a widget, you can simply run the resizeControl handler to clean things up. 

In my case I always want the widget segments to be the same size, and I always want the widget to be centered on the card. YMMV. You could get even fancier if you wanted and calculate the formattedWidth of the segment names, add a little air around them, then set the width of the widget to the sum of those, and then the minimum segment widths to those formattedWidths. But manipulating the minimum segment widths to get the correct width for each segment is something I have not fathomed. I wish they had given us a property for the *actual* segment widths. 

For the widget itself I have these handlers: 

on hiliteChanged
   put the hilitedItemNames of me into tTabName
   put the itemNames of me into tTabList
   tabChanged tTabName, tTabList
end hiliteChanged

on tabChanged pTab, pTabList
   -- your code here  
end tabChanged

on resizeControl
   wait until the mouse is up with messages
   put the long id of me into tMyID
   put wordOffset("card", tMyID) +1 into tPos
   put word tPos to -1 of tMyID into tParentCard
   put the width of widget "TabBar" into tWidth
   put tWidth / the itemCount of widget "TabBar" into tSegmentWidth
   
   repeat with i = 1 to the itemCount of widget "TabBar"
      put tSegmentWidth into item i of tSegmentWidths
   end repeat
   
   set the itemMinExtents of widget "TabBar" to tSegmentWidths
   
   -- center the widget left to right
   put the loc of widget "TabBar" into tTabLoc
   put the loc of tParentCard into tCardLoc
   put item 1 of tCardLoc into item 1 of tTabLoc
   set the loc of widget "TabBar" to tTabLoc
   
   -- set the rect of the overlay button to match
   set the rect of button "btnTabOverlay" to the rect of widget "TabBar"
end resizeControl


Then for the overlay button: 

on mouseUp
   put the clickedTab of me into tTab
   set the hilitedItemNames of widget "TabBar" to tTab
end mouseUp

on mouseDoubleUp
   put the clickedTab of me into tTab
   
   -- your code here
end mouseDoubleUp

getProp clickedTab
   put the clickLoc into tClickLoc
   put the itemNames of widget "TabBar" into tTabNames
   put the rect of widget "TabBar" into tTabRect
   put item 3 of tTabRect - item 1 of tTabRect into tTabWidth
   put the itemCount of widget "TabBar" into tTabCount
   put tTabWidth / tTabCount into tSegmentWidth
   
   repeat with i = 1 to tTabCount
      put round(item 1 of tTabRect + (tSegmentWidth * i)) into tSegmentBounds
      
      if item 1 of tClickLoc <= tSegmentBounds then
         put item i of tTabNames into tTab
         exit repeat
      end if
   end repeat
   
   put the itemMinExtents of widget "TabBar" into tExtents
   return tTab
end clickedTab



From paul at researchware.com  Fri Dec 29 17:53:56 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2023 17:53:56 -0500
Subject: Message Sent when Resizing Widgets: Workaround
In-Reply-To: <974092CF-BF5B-4733-AA36-600C05E9E085@iotecdigital.com>
References: <974092CF-BF5B-4733-AA36-600C05E9E085@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <3ad9f85f-3d9a-44c2-8991-dd0483f38dde@researchware.com>

Bob,

This is nice trick (and code) to use an overlayed button to get a widget 
to respond to standard messages. Impressive!

I really think that Livecode Ltd. needs to prioritize adding a set of 
"standard" object messages to every current widget to address these 3 
bugs (and their generalization to all other widgets):
https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=24458
https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=24437
https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=24429

Every widget should be able to handle OR pass  through (just like every 
Livecode field, button, scrollbar, etc.) resizeControl, mouseEnter, 
mouseWithin, mouseLeave, mouseDown, mouseDoubleDown, mouseStillDown, 
mouseUp, mouseDoubleUp, and probably a bunch more.


On 12/29/2023 5:39 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
> I have a kind of custom group composed of a segmented widget and a transparent button the exact size of the widget, the purpose of which is to be able to handle messages that are otherwise not sent to the widget. In fact almost NO messages are sent to a widget, a source of some consternation from users of this list.
>
> There are three issues with this, the first being that if there is a button on top of a widget, then no messages get sent directly from the engine to the widget at all! The second is that if I add more segments or resize the widget, the width of the overlay button also needs to match. The third issue is that if I click on the overlay button, I need to know, as in the case of a mouse click which segment was clicked on.
>
> To this end I wrote some handlers for the widget and the overlay button which allow you to handle any messages a button might receive and then process them for the widget. This is of course just a basic framework. The important handlers are resizeControl and the getProp clickedTab.
>
> Unfortunately, and although changing the size of the widget will send the resizeContol message to t he widget, editing the width in the widgets properties palette does NOT send the message. The upshot is that if you make changes to a widget, you can simply run the resizeControl handler to clean things up.
>
> In my case I always want the widget segments to be the same size, and I always want the widget to be centered on the card. YMMV. You could get even fancier if you wanted and calculate the formattedWidth of the segment names, add a little air around them, then set the width of the widget to the sum of those, and then the minimum segment widths to those formattedWidths. But manipulating the minimum segment widths to get the correct width for each segment is something I have not fathomed. I wish they had given us a property for the *actual* segment widths.
>
> For the widget itself I have these handlers:
>
> on hiliteChanged
>     put the hilitedItemNames of me into tTabName
>     put the itemNames of me into tTabList
>     tabChanged tTabName, tTabList
> end hiliteChanged
>
> on tabChanged pTab, pTabList
>     -- your code here
> end tabChanged
>
> on resizeControl
>     wait until the mouse is up with messages
>     put the long id of me into tMyID
>     put wordOffset("card", tMyID) +1 into tPos
>     put word tPos to -1 of tMyID into tParentCard
>     put the width of widget "TabBar" into tWidth
>     put tWidth / the itemCount of widget "TabBar" into tSegmentWidth
>     
>     repeat with i = 1 to the itemCount of widget "TabBar"
>        put tSegmentWidth into item i of tSegmentWidths
>     end repeat
>     
>     set the itemMinExtents of widget "TabBar" to tSegmentWidths
>     
>     -- center the widget left to right
>     put the loc of widget "TabBar" into tTabLoc
>     put the loc of tParentCard into tCardLoc
>     put item 1 of tCardLoc into item 1 of tTabLoc
>     set the loc of widget "TabBar" to tTabLoc
>     
>     -- set the rect of the overlay button to match
>     set the rect of button "btnTabOverlay" to the rect of widget "TabBar"
> end resizeControl
>
>
> Then for the overlay button:
>
> on mouseUp
>     put the clickedTab of me into tTab
>     set the hilitedItemNames of widget "TabBar" to tTab
> end mouseUp
>
> on mouseDoubleUp
>     put the clickedTab of me into tTab
>     
>     -- your code here
> end mouseDoubleUp
>
> getProp clickedTab
>     put the clickLoc into tClickLoc
>     put the itemNames of widget "TabBar" into tTabNames
>     put the rect of widget "TabBar" into tTabRect
>     put item 3 of tTabRect - item 1 of tTabRect into tTabWidth
>     put the itemCount of widget "TabBar" into tTabCount
>     put tTabWidth / tTabCount into tSegmentWidth
>     
>     repeat with i = 1 to tTabCount
>        put round(item 1 of tTabRect + (tSegmentWidth * i)) into tSegmentBounds
>        
>        if item 1 of tClickLoc <= tSegmentBounds then
>           put item i of tTabNames into tTab
>           exit repeat
>        end if
>     end repeat
>     
>     put the itemMinExtents of widget "TabBar" into tExtents
>     return tTab
> end clickedTab
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Dec 29 18:23:26 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2023 23:23:26 +0000
Subject: Message Sent when Resizing Widgets: Workaround
In-Reply-To: <3ad9f85f-3d9a-44c2-8991-dd0483f38dde@researchware.com>
References: <974092CF-BF5B-4733-AA36-600C05E9E085@iotecdigital.com>
 <3ad9f85f-3d9a-44c2-8991-dd0483f38dde@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <8B20C3AB-F9F1-4A72-831C-F9EACEDBC2C3@iotecdigital.com>

I wholeheartedly agree. But one of the most endearing qualities of Livecode, at least to me is that if something doesn’t work exactly the way I want, I can make something that does. The Datagrid is the offspring of this. I remember days when a lot of devs were clamoring for a table object that actually behaved like a table! What Trevor Devore gave us was a group object that did practically everything that everyone wanted in a table object, and then a bit more! I cannot imagine developing in Livecode now without it. I’m sure it was a collaborative effort, but I think Trevor led the charge. Take a little time and read up on his bio. Pretty incredible.

Bob S


On Dec 29, 2023, at 2:53 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

Every widget should be able to handle OR pass  through (just like every Livecode field, button, scrollbar, etc.) resizeControl, mouseEnter, mouseWithin, mouseLeave, mouseDown, mouseDoubleDown, mouseStillDown, mouseUp, mouseDoubleUp, and probably a bunch more.


On 12/29/2023 5:39 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:



From ahsoftware at sonic.net  Sat Dec 30 18:03:04 2023
From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2023 15:03:04 -0800
Subject: Thanks for all the fish
Message-ID: <43c2b3e7-902f-4d8d-a3f9-71a75cfe50f1@sonic.net>

PowerDebug and PowerTools have now been released into the wild as 
opensource tools (MIT license).
Code is all intact, although the check for update functionality has been 
commented out for obvious reasons.
Have fun.

https://github.com/mwieder/PowerDebug
https://github.com/mwieder/PowerTools

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Sat Dec 30 19:01:30 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2023 00:01:30 +0000
Subject: Thanks for all the fish
In-Reply-To: <43c2b3e7-902f-4d8d-a3f9-71a75cfe50f1@sonic.net>
References: <43c2b3e7-902f-4d8d-a3f9-71a75cfe50f1@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <58D614A1-D14E-4044-90B3-A8DF8F18AF70@iotecdigital.com>

Sooo.  I should drink several pints of beer and eat a couple bags of peanuts (for the salt, I’m gonna need it) because I’m standing next to a galaxy hitchhiker with a ring on his thumb, otherwise I’m screwed? Mmm kay. I don’t need all those excuses. And I have no idea where my towel is. Yeah, I’m screwed. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 30, 2023, at 15:04, Mark Wieder via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> PowerDebug and PowerTools have now been released into the wild as opensource tools (MIT license).
> Code is all intact, although the check for update functionality has been commented out for obvious reasons.
> Have fun.
> 
> https://github.com/mwieder/PowerDebug
> https://github.com/mwieder/PowerTools
> 
> -- 
> Mark Wieder
> ahsoftware at gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

From cszasz at mac.com  Sun Dec 31 09:41:23 2023
From: cszasz at mac.com (Charles Szasz)
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2023 07:41:23 -0700
Subject: Embedded PDFs in Windows Menu
Message-ID: <1F81F2DA-BA59-48CE-B8BE-8997021E3B4E@mac.com>

I have found that a method I use (proposed by LC tech support a few years ago to embed PDFs in a Windows menu (using custom properties) does not work in LC 9+. It does work on a Mac. Anybody have solution for this problem?


Sent from my iPad

From paul at researchware.com  Sun Dec 31 10:16:53 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2023 10:16:53 -0500
Subject: Embedded PDFs in Windows Menu
In-Reply-To: <1F81F2DA-BA59-48CE-B8BE-8997021E3B4E@mac.com>
References: <1F81F2DA-BA59-48CE-B8BE-8997021E3B4E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <64c05a9c-9469-4d1d-8079-49094a3add00@researchware.com>

I'm not sure exactly what you are talking about?

Are you asking about launching a PDF from a menu item under a "Windows" 
menu?

On 12/31/2023 9:41 AM, Charles Szasz via use-livecode wrote:
> I have found that a method I use (proposed by LC tech support a few years ago to embed PDFs in a Windows menu (using custom properties) does not work in LC 9+. It does work on a Mac. Anybody have solution for this problem?
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Sun Dec 31 11:52:29 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe)
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2023 17:52:29 +0100
Subject: Embedded PDFs in Windows Menu
In-Reply-To: <64c05a9c-9469-4d1d-8079-49094a3add00@researchware.com>
References: <64c05a9c-9469-4d1d-8079-49094a3add00@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <92C8E843-8760-4771-BC89-48CC2CF637F9@m-r-d.de>

Paul,

the subject of Charles post is a bit misleading.
The problem does not have to do with the menu.

Charles problem is the following. He stored several PDF files on macOS as custom properties. His program allows the user to save the PDF to hard disk using a menu entry.
The command for creating the PDF is
put the PDFfile1 of this stack into URL “binfile:……..“

When the PDF is saved on macOS the PDF is readable (on Windows and macOS), when the PDF is saved on Windows, a PDF with blank pages is created.

I am not sure, if this maybe has to do with encoding or so?

Regards,
Matthias

Von meinem iPad gesendet
> Am 31.12.2023 um 16:18 schrieb Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> I'm not sure exactly what you are talking about?
> 
> Are you asking about launching a PDF from a menu item under a "Windows" menu?
> 
>> On 12/31/2023 9:41 AM, Charles Szasz via use-livecode wrote:
>> I have found that a method I use (proposed by LC tech support a few years ago to embed PDFs in a Windows menu (using custom properties) does not work in LC 9+. It does work on a Mac. Anybody have solution for this problem?
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From craig at starfirelighting.com  Fri Dec  1 09:04:00 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2023 09:04:00 -0500
Subject: greying out columns in a dataGrid
In-Reply-To: <CANbzFDpc_bWzmCszia=m=E1+228vSPXbSYbgNR-XxJ7hvwo8vQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <986A2C54-DBEA-49F4-A2B8-183A397DA3FB@gmail.com>
 <a5373678-4ae3-4015-9e8d-02d50eae4562@researchware.com>
 <E109CAA8-7494-4AA9-AFD1-DBE12C9551A6@gmail.com>
 <a846df39-296e-404a-bf7d-15cd3cdc32a4@researchware.com>
 <CANbzFDpc_bWzmCszia=m=E1+228vSPXbSYbgNR-XxJ7hvwo8vQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <553CBFB9-5E8A-4DFD-A5B7-0EB03A89204C@starfirelighting.com>

Zyrip.

Almost, and very good, since I do not understand DG’s at all.

I changed your offering to:


on mouseUp

dispatch "DG_ColorColumn" to grp "datagrid 1" with "col 2", "211,211,211"

—srcCopy  —no such command

end mouseUp


on DG_ColorColumn pColName, pColor, yellow

   set the opaque of grp pColName of me to (pColor is not empty)

   set the backcolor of grp pColName of me to pColor

   set the ink of grp 1 of me to blendSrcIn

end DG_ColorColumn



Craig




> On Nov 30, 2023, at 7:46 PM, zryip theSlug via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Hershel,
> 
> A possible solution consists to add this handler in the datagrid group
> script:
> 
> *command* DG_ColorColumn pColName, pColor, pInk
> *  set* the opaque of grp pColName of me to (pColor is not empty)
>  set the backcolor of grp pColName of me to pColor
>  set the ink of grp pColName of me to pInk
> *end* DG_ColorColumn
> 
> Then, call this handler that way:
> 
> *on* mouseUp
>  dispatch "DG_ColorColumn" to grp "datagrid 1" with "col 2", "211,211,211",
> "srcCopy"
> *end* mouseUp
> 
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> On Thu, 30 Nov 2023 at 22:49, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 11/30/2023 4:41 PM, Hershel F via use-livecode wrote:
>>> sorry my mistake. does not have to be greyed out should be a gray color.
>>> or to rephrase the question properly, how the change the color to gray?
>> 
>> Ah! I am pretty sure it can be done, but I do not know how to do it
>> exactly. By guess is that you will probably need to edit the row
>> template to add a "grey" background behind the columns your may want to
>> grey and then for those columns in the Property inspector, create a
>> custom column behavior to show or hide that grey background graphic
>> based on whatever calculation your want.
>> 
>> That is a guess though.
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Zryip TheSlug
> http://www.aslugontheroad.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From klaus at major-k.de  Fri Dec  1 09:10:43 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2023 15:10:43 +0100
Subject: greying out columns in a dataGrid
In-Reply-To: <553CBFB9-5E8A-4DFD-A5B7-0EB03A89204C@starfirelighting.com>
References: <986A2C54-DBEA-49F4-A2B8-183A397DA3FB@gmail.com>
 <a5373678-4ae3-4015-9e8d-02d50eae4562@researchware.com>
 <E109CAA8-7494-4AA9-AFD1-DBE12C9551A6@gmail.com>
 <a846df39-296e-404a-bf7d-15cd3cdc32a4@researchware.com>
 <CANbzFDpc_bWzmCszia=m=E1+228vSPXbSYbgNR-XxJ7hvwo8vQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <553CBFB9-5E8A-4DFD-A5B7-0EB03A89204C@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <8803E50E-95DA-4FD0-89C6-50679E226141@major-k.de>

Hi Craig,

always watch out for LINEBREAKS like here!

> Am 01.12.2023 um 15:04 schrieb Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> on mouseUp
> 
## Needs to be ONE line, see parameters of -> DG_ColorColumn
> ...
> dispatch "DG_ColorColumn" to grp "datagrid 1" with "col 2", "211,211,211", "srcCopy"
> ...
> Craig

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From derek-lc-list at speedbump.io  Sun Dec  3 13:00:03 2023
From: derek-lc-list at speedbump.io (Derek Bump)
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2023 12:00:03 -0600
Subject: Your scripts as a flowchart
In-Reply-To: <5357224F-1A01-4F2E-804A-014467118930@gmail.com>
References: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com>
 <CAKCLKtpqQXm8OwOuhb=2QSTzd+zqFF5fWiWpH0WZ6uxtVuxYRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <18a9f0eaa08.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CAKCLKtofwpfMt7L05z5CbCqA=xeEa3YM3bbodwdv0ZWK3bYBEw@mail.gmail.com>
 <023C9AEA-7B3A-455E-B6DC-18164BBF04B5@gmail.com>
 <CAKCLKtrOSD0O3kvs43Q_mJno4Dkf3e4Rv-JigjunPZJJP_s2pQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKCLKtr7_H9=htuGpOJiM_qOKKHONVimCYFLj2GRsN65jifqWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5357224F-1A01-4F2E-804A-014467118930@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45122269-0cd1-47ff-9dac-bb5c003ca1c4@speedbump.io>

Thank you, Andreas, this is very cool and quite helpful!


Some feedback to pass along for consideration:

1. I keep getting an Error 400 when creating a flowchart, and it seems 
to have something to do with the "Group per handler host" checkbox. If 
you toggle it in the right order, the chart will generate without an error.

2. Clicking any of the buttons to save files is not resulting in 
anything appearing on my Desktop. (Mint 21.2)

3. The teal backgrounds and gray text throughout the UI blends together 
and disappears when I look at it.


I hope this is helpful,

Derek Bump


On 11/30/23 14:45, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Finally I can answer Yes to the question on exporting script flowcharts!
> New version of WIS_ScriptDependencies available:
>
> v1.1.5 (30 Nov 2023)
>
> /Andreas
>


From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com  Sun Dec  3 14:29:14 2023
From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal)
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2023 20:29:14 +0100
Subject: Your scripts as a flowchart
In-Reply-To: <45122269-0cd1-47ff-9dac-bb5c003ca1c4@speedbump.io>
References: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com>
 <CAKCLKtpqQXm8OwOuhb=2QSTzd+zqFF5fWiWpH0WZ6uxtVuxYRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <18a9f0eaa08.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CAKCLKtofwpfMt7L05z5CbCqA=xeEa3YM3bbodwdv0ZWK3bYBEw@mail.gmail.com>
 <023C9AEA-7B3A-455E-B6DC-18164BBF04B5@gmail.com>
 <CAKCLKtrOSD0O3kvs43Q_mJno4Dkf3e4Rv-JigjunPZJJP_s2pQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKCLKtr7_H9=htuGpOJiM_qOKKHONVimCYFLj2GRsN65jifqWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5357224F-1A01-4F2E-804A-014467118930@gmail.com>
 <45122269-0cd1-47ff-9dac-bb5c003ca1c4@speedbump.io>
Message-ID: <C24EEA90-E5E2-4FB8-B0EF-C30DD601FB37@gmail.com>

Thanks for the feedback, Derek!

1. I get an Error 400 when trying for a flowchart of a monster stack with 180+ handlers with many interdependencies. This seems to be due to exceeding the upper limit of what the Mermaid/Kroki services can handle in therms of ”edges”. The graph is simply too complex. Try excluding substacks, or excluding handlers by adding them to the handler exclusion filter field, to reduce ”uninteresting” complexity.
(I tend to exclude mouse*, and commands/functions that are called many times put only do simple things like adding quotes, or utf conversion or something.) 

The "Group per handler host” feature adds complexity to the graph, so using that could also tip it over the error threshold. 
Unfortunately, the error message passed back from Mermaid/Kroki is not very enlightening. 

2. I realise that I have not put in any error catching for the case where the user has not yet chosen a save file destination. Try opening the flowchart settings pane (which should already set a default save path if empty) and click the folder icon to make an active choice. If it still doesn’t work for you then it might be a Linux issue, which unfortunately I’m unable to test.

3. Hmm, I don’t usually use any gray texts. All texts are black, except for a few big buttons that have ”midnight blue” text, which is also the colour of most of the icons. Is something happening to the UI on Linux? It would be interesting to see a screenshot of how it looks for you.

Here’s a screenshot of part of the UI, posted in the LC forum, that shows how it looks on Mac and Windows:
https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=37644&start=75

Best,
Andreas


> 3 dec. 2023 kl. 19:00 skrev Derek Bump via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Thank you, Andreas, this is very cool and quite helpful!
> 
> 
> Some feedback to pass along for consideration:
> 
> 1. I keep getting an Error 400 when creating a flowchart, and it seems to have something to do with the "Group per handler host" checkbox. If you toggle it in the right order, the chart will generate without an error.
> 
> 2. Clicking any of the buttons to save files is not resulting in anything appearing on my Desktop. (Mint 21.2)
> 
> 3. The teal backgrounds and gray text throughout the UI blends together and disappears when I look at it.
> 
> 
> I hope this is helpful,
> 
> Derek Bump
> 
> 
> On 11/30/23 14:45, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> Finally I can answer Yes to the question on exporting script flowcharts!
>> New version of WIS_ScriptDependencies available:
>> 
>> v1.1.5 (30 Nov 2023)
>> 
>> /Andreas


From derek-lc-list at speedbump.io  Sun Dec  3 17:45:32 2023
From: derek-lc-list at speedbump.io (Derek Bump)
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2023 16:45:32 -0600
Subject: Your scripts as a flowchart
In-Reply-To: <C24EEA90-E5E2-4FB8-B0EF-C30DD601FB37@gmail.com>
References: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com>
 <CAKCLKtpqQXm8OwOuhb=2QSTzd+zqFF5fWiWpH0WZ6uxtVuxYRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <18a9f0eaa08.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CAKCLKtofwpfMt7L05z5CbCqA=xeEa3YM3bbodwdv0ZWK3bYBEw@mail.gmail.com>
 <023C9AEA-7B3A-455E-B6DC-18164BBF04B5@gmail.com>
 <CAKCLKtrOSD0O3kvs43Q_mJno4Dkf3e4Rv-JigjunPZJJP_s2pQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKCLKtr7_H9=htuGpOJiM_qOKKHONVimCYFLj2GRsN65jifqWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5357224F-1A01-4F2E-804A-014467118930@gmail.com>
 <45122269-0cd1-47ff-9dac-bb5c003ca1c4@speedbump.io>
 <C24EEA90-E5E2-4FB8-B0EF-C30DD601FB37@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e2432ecf-2c08-4e3c-a4e0-8337b8541f54@speedbump.io>

My apologies, Andreas, I forget about Dark Mode being a bit finicky on 
my daily driver. Purely a personal preference which I've resolved, but I 
dropped the snapshots in the forum if you're still interested. Please 
disregard.

Otherwise I appreciate the quick response. I'm back on track, and will 
drop more on the forum if I find anything :-)

Thank you,

Derek Bump


On 12/3/23 13:29, Andreas Bergendal wrote:
> 3. Hmm, I dont usually use any gray texts. All texts are black, except for a few big buttons that have midnight blue text, which is also the colour of most of the icons. Is something happening to the UI on Linux? It would be interesting to see a screenshot of how it looks for you.
>
> Heres a screenshot of part of the UI, posted in the LC forum, that shows how it looks on Mac and Windows:
> https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=37644&start=75
>
> Best,
> Andreas
>
>
>> 3 dec. 2023 kl. 19:00 skrev Derek Bump via use-livecode<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>
>> Thank you, Andreas, this is very cool and quite helpful!
>>
>>
>> Some feedback to pass along for consideration:
>>
>> 1. I keep getting an Error 400 when creating a flowchart, and it seems to have something to do with the "Group per handler host" checkbox. If you toggle it in the right order, the chart will generate without an error.
>>
>> 2. Clicking any of the buttons to save files is not resulting in anything appearing on my Desktop. (Mint 21.2)
>>
>> 3. The teal backgrounds and gray text throughout the UI blends together and disappears when I look at it.
>>
>>
>> I hope this is helpful,
>>
>> Derek Bump
>>
>>
>> On 11/30/23 14:45, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Finally I can answer Yes to the question on exporting script flowcharts!
>>> New version of WIS_ScriptDependencies available:
>>>
>>> v1.1.5 (30 Nov 2023)
>>>
>>> /Andreas

From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Mon Dec  4 14:14:51 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2023 19:14:51 +0000
Subject: resizeControl wishes...
In-Reply-To: <35050596a67258140d60601085dc16f48c456429@fourthworld.com>
References: <35050596a67258140d60601085dc16f48c456429@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <B67FC474-ED45-4312-9EBC-E211A58BA5BE@iotecdigital.com>

Dang! I thought I was learning a new word!

Bob S


On Nov 30, 2023, at 9:29 AM, ambassador--- via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

it uses the power of the engine to its most efficient, preditable, and robust advangage to put things exactly where you want them.


From hershelflc at gmail.com  Mon Dec  4 19:12:30 2023
From: hershelflc at gmail.com (Hershel F)
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2023 19:12:30 -0500
Subject: greying out columns in a dataGrid
In-Reply-To: <8803E50E-95DA-4FD0-89C6-50679E226141@major-k.de>
References: <986A2C54-DBEA-49F4-A2B8-183A397DA3FB@gmail.com>
 <a5373678-4ae3-4015-9e8d-02d50eae4562@researchware.com>
 <E109CAA8-7494-4AA9-AFD1-DBE12C9551A6@gmail.com>
 <a846df39-296e-404a-bf7d-15cd3cdc32a4@researchware.com>
 <CANbzFDpc_bWzmCszia=m=E1+228vSPXbSYbgNR-XxJ7hvwo8vQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <553CBFB9-5E8A-4DFD-A5B7-0EB03A89204C@starfirelighting.com>
 <8803E50E-95DA-4FD0-89C6-50679E226141@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <487D54F9-E768-4D24-B52A-CF249DB36336@gmail.com>

Good, getting there. thanks. 
just need that the row dividers should  be a different color then the cells.
Hershel


> On Dec 1, 2023, at 9:10 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Craig,
> 
> always watch out for LINEBREAKS like here!
> 
>> Am 01.12.2023 um 15:04 schrieb Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> on mouseUp
>> 
> ## Needs to be ONE line, see parameters of -> DG_ColorColumn
>> ...
>> dispatch "DG_ColorColumn" to grp "datagrid 1" with "col 2", "211,211,211", "srcCopy"
>> ...
>> Craig
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From klaus at major-k.de  Tue Dec  5 11:41:09 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2023 17:41:09 +0100
Subject: Enhancement request for "Circle Avatar" widget.
Message-ID: <EE2718C5-EEE1-40D3-99E8-7D556A458456@major-k.de>

Hi friends,

see subject, I just created an enhencement request for
a round border around (sic! :-) the image inside of 
the widget, that would really make sense.
Not a border of the surrounding rect.

<https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=24447>


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From keith.clarke at me.com  Wed Dec  6 05:00:58 2023
From: keith.clarke at me.com (Keith Clarke)
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2023 10:00:58 +0000
Subject: LiveCode server as OAuth2 client for APIs?
Message-ID: <1B469B5C-D740-4105-9A32-A0C8A61085ED@me.com>

Hi folks,
Does anyone have experience of using OAuth2 with LiveCode server, to log into third-party data sources for API access?
 
I am experimenting with a web based utility app that runs on LiveCode server & RevIgniter and I need to be able to log into a Salesforce.com <http://salesforce.com/> account to pull data into the app via APIs. I’m following the Salesforce Oauth 2.0 Web Server Flow for Web App Integration https://help.salesforce.com/s/articleView?id=sf.remoteaccess_oauth_web_server_flow.htm&type=5 and 

I’ve configured the LiveCode app as a connected app in a Salesforce developer instance, to create a consumer id, with which I can request an authorisation code. This requires a POST to a Salesforce endpoint, which, if successful redirects to a page on the Salesforce authorisation server to provide login credentials. This is where I’m stuck...

The LiveCode OAuth2 library seems to be desktop centric (expecting any redirects via the loopback IP address of 127.0.0.1, rather than a URL); the RevIgniter forms library seems to support posts to URLs within the LiveCode app but not third party URLs; and if I create a LiveCode file to ‘post data to URL tSalesforceAuthURL’ from within RevIgniter, I can’t see any option to follow redirects and so, unsurprisingly, the page URL doesn’t change.

Any advice greatly appreciated.
Best,
Keith      

From rabit at revigniter.com  Wed Dec  6 12:53:07 2023
From: rabit at revigniter.com (Ralf Bitter)
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2023 18:53:07 +0100
Subject: LiveCode server as OAuth2 client for APIs?
In-Reply-To: <1B469B5C-D740-4105-9A32-A0C8A61085ED@me.com>
References: <1B469B5C-D740-4105-9A32-A0C8A61085ED@me.com>
Message-ID: <aad271de-668d-49e3-8ec3-29f99485e4f1@revigniter.com>

Hi Keith,

using revIgniter you can always hard code the opening
form tag, this way you can use any URL as an action
attribute.

However, your message has prompted me to change the
rigFormOpen() function so that you can override the
current URL with the value of an optional action
attribute included in the second parameter.
So, if you like, you can download the modified
version of the form helper at:

https://github.com/revig/revigniter/blob/develop/system/helpers/formHelper.livecodescript


Ralf



On 06.12.2023 11:00, Keith Clarke via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi folks,
> Does anyone have experience of using OAuth2 with LiveCode server, to log into third-party data sources for API access?
>   
> I am experimenting with a web based utility app that runs on LiveCode server & RevIgniter and I need to be able to log into a Salesforce.com <http://salesforce.com/> account to pull data into the app via APIs. Im following the Salesforce Oauth 2.0 Web Server Flow for Web App Integration https://help.salesforce.com/s/articleView?id=sf.remoteaccess_oauth_web_server_flow.htm&type=5 and
> 
> Ive configured the LiveCode app as a connected app in a Salesforce developer instance, to create a consumer id, with which I can request an authorisation code. This requires a POST to a Salesforce endpoint, which, if successful redirects to a page on the Salesforce authorisation server to provide login credentials. This is where Im stuck...
> 
> The LiveCode OAuth2 library seems to be desktop centric (expecting any redirects via the loopback IP address of 127.0.0.1, rather than a URL); the RevIgniter forms library seems to support posts to URLs within the LiveCode app but not third party URLs; and if I create a LiveCode file to post data to URL tSalesforceAuthURL from within RevIgniter, I cant see any option to follow redirects and so, unsurprisingly, the page URL doesnt change.
> 
> Any advice greatly appreciated.
> Best,
> Keith
> _______________________________________________


From keith.clarke at me.com  Thu Dec  7 12:01:50 2023
From: keith.clarke at me.com (Keith Clarke)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2023 17:01:50 +0000
Subject: LiveCode server as OAuth2 client for APIs?
In-Reply-To: <aad271de-668d-49e3-8ec3-29f99485e4f1@revigniter.com>
References: <1B469B5C-D740-4105-9A32-A0C8A61085ED@me.com>
 <aad271de-668d-49e3-8ec3-29f99485e4f1@revigniter.com>
Message-ID: <A290EA48-FBF6-43B2-8C0D-738A3FD37F73@me.com>

Hi Ralf,
Thanks for the guidance and updated formHelper script - and apologies to folks not using LiveCode Server or RevIgniter - I now realise this should have been posted on the use RevIgniter list. 

I’ve now got a basic button that submits a form data post to the Salesforce authorisation server. However, there are a couple of issues, which are probably due to me misreading the user guide (again!) and/or getting confused over what markup goes into controller and view files for RevIgniter.

I’m using a controller file to prepare and add to the gData[] array both the form contents and submit button, which are then accessed in the view file, using the following... 

<?	put gData["formOpen"] & gData["submit"] into tForm
  return tForm	
?> 

In the controller file, I first used the recipe for ‘Adding Hidden Input Fields’ to create an array for the third ‘hidden’ parameter of the rigFormOpen() function. This worked as a POST but all the hidden fields are visible in the view file’s html. This is rather insecure for authentication, revealing consumer_id (and in future, client_secret, which I’ll need to add to increase security once basic access is proven). 

So, I’m hoping the rigFormHidden(tData) recipe can keep the hidden content ‘LiveCode-side' until post submission and out of the HTML. So far the hidden values don’t seem to be getting into the POST, as I’m getting an unsupported request type (so the ‘response_type=code’ is not being received). 

I’m sure I am taking the wrong approach, as well as incorrect syntax in my controller handler - as if I understand things correctly, the way I’ve got parameter three of the rigFormOpen() call pointing at gData[‘hidden’] would, if successful, render the hidden contents visible in the view file’s html... 

  # Prepare Salesforce login form
  
    # Load form helper library
    rigLoadHelper "form"
  
  # Prepare hidden parameter data array
    put “XXsomeClientIdXX" into aHidden["client_id"]
    put URLencode(“XXsomeRedirectURLXX") into aHidden["redirect_uri"]
    put "code" into aHidden["response_type"]
    put rigFormHidden(aHidden) into gData["hidden"]
    
    # Prepare form
    put rigFormOpen(“XXauthoirisationServerURLXX", “", gData["hidden"]) into gData["formOpen"]
    
    # Prepare submit button
    put "sfLoginBtn" into aData["name"]
    put "sfLoginBtn" into aData["id"]
    put "btn btn-primary" into aData["class"]
    put "submit" into aData["type"]
    put "Salesforce Login" into aData["value"]
    
    put rigSubmitButton(aData) into gData["submit"]
  
  # put "Topic1,Topic2,Topic3" into gData["ListItems"]

  get rigLoadView("homeMainView")

I’m probably making multiple newbie errors, but I’ve been unable to find any worked examples of RevIgniter controller and view file markup for form posting. So, I’d be obliged for any hints and tips.
Best,
Keith

> On 6 Dec 2023, at 17:53, Ralf Bitter via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Keith,
> 
> using revIgniter you can always hard code the opening
> form tag, this way you can use any URL as an action
> attribute.
> 
> However, your message has prompted me to change the
> rigFormOpen() function so that you can override the
> current URL with the value of an optional action
> attribute included in the second parameter.
> So, if you like, you can download the modified
> version of the form helper at:
> 
> https://github.com/revig/revigniter/blob/develop/system/helpers/formHelper.livecodescript
> 
> 
> Ralf
> 
> 
> 
> On 06.12.2023 11:00, Keith Clarke via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hi folks,
>> Does anyone have experience of using OAuth2 with LiveCode server, to log into third-party data sources for API access?
>>  I am experimenting with a web based utility app that runs on LiveCode server & RevIgniter and I need to be able to log into a Salesforce.com <http://salesforce.com/> account to pull data into the app via APIs. I’m following the Salesforce Oauth 2.0 Web Server Flow for Web App Integration https://help.salesforce.com/s/articleView?id=sf.remoteaccess_oauth_web_server_flow.htm&type=5 and
>> I’ve configured the LiveCode app as a connected app in a Salesforce developer instance, to create a consumer id, with which I can request an authorisation code. This requires a POST to a Salesforce endpoint, which, if successful redirects to a page on the Salesforce authorisation server to provide login credentials. This is where I’m stuck...
>> The LiveCode OAuth2 library seems to be desktop centric (expecting any redirects via the loopback IP address of 127.0.0.1, rather than a URL); the RevIgniter forms library seems to support posts to URLs within the LiveCode app but not third party URLs; and if I create a LiveCode file to ‘post data to URL tSalesforceAuthURL’ from within RevIgniter, I can’t see any option to follow redirects and so, unsurprisingly, the page URL doesn’t change.
>> Any advice greatly appreciated.
>> Best,
>> Keith
>> _______________________________________________
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From scott at elementarysoftware.com  Thu Dec  7 19:13:20 2023
From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (scott at elementarysoftware.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2023 16:13:20 -0800
Subject: tsNetUploadSync()
Message-ID: <4BEE9678-D45D-4039-A0E8-80BB90F53EFB@elementarysoftware.com>

I have a project that uses the business version of tsNet to ftp a file onto a web server. (I’m using a Mac, the server is a shared one on hostm.) This works fine in LC 9.6.8 but fails in subsequent versions of LC 9.6.x as well as LC 10.0.0 (dp 6). I’m fairly ignorant of tsnet and file transfer protocols. My attempts to debug the problem by looking at headers and cURL error codes hasn’t gotten me anywhere useful. Is there something that changed between LC 9.6.8 and LC 9.6.9  that might help inform where I should be looking? I saw that LC 9.6.9 updated the version of OpenSSL it was using but I’m not sure if/how that might effect tsnet. I’ve put more details below.  Any ideas welcomed. (Well, almost any ;- )

--
Scott Morrow

Elementary Software
(Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
web       https://elementarysoftware.com/
email     scott at elementarysoftware.com
booth    1-360-734-4701
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------


When things don’t work I get:
"Transfer complete with server response code tsneterr: (13) Bad PASV/EPSV response: 250”  — which is confusing to me since:

"CURLE_FTP_WEIRD_PASV_REPLY (13)
libcurl failed to get a sensible result back from the server as a response to either a PASV or a EPSV command. The server is flawed.”

Although a 250 FTP response seems to mean: "Requested file action okay, completed"


When things do work [LC 9.6.8] I get:
"Transfer complete with server response code 226”   — which I think means: Closing data connection; requested file action successful

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A more complete list of responses

server responses from LC 9.6.11 (rc 1) failed attempt:

--------- Server Responses ---------
Downloading FTPS directory listing for /public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org/calendar_events_data from ftp://xxxxxxxxxxx.serversignin.com
Transfer complete with server response code tsneterr: (13) Bad PASV/EPSV response: 550------------------
tRecvHeaders:
220---------- Welcome to Pure-FTPd [privsep] [TLS] ---------- 
220-You are user number 6 of 188 allowed. 
220-Local time is now 22:44. Server port: 21. 
220-This is a private system - No anonymous login 
220-IPv6 connections are also welcome on this server. 
220 You will be disconnected after 30 minutes of inactivity. 
500 This security scheme is not implemented 
234 AUTH TLS OK. 
331 User xxxxxxxxxxx OK. Password required 
230 OK. Current restricted directory is / 
200 PBSZ=0 
200 Data protection level set to "private" 
257 "/" is your current location 
250 OK. Current directory is /public_html 
250 OK. Current directory is /public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org 
500 Unknown command 
227 Entering Passive Mode (192,99,207,157,134,188) 
200 TYPE is now 8-bit binary 
550 I can only retrieve regular files ------------------
Uploading file 2024_calendar_events.txt to ftp://xxxxxxxxxxx.serversignin.com/public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org/calendar_events_data
Transfer complete with server response code tsneterr: (13) Bad PASV/EPSV response: 250

tRecvHeaders:
227 Entering Passive Mode (192,99,207,157,126,230) 
250 OK. Current directory is / 
250 OK. Current directory is /public_html 
250 OK. Current directory is /public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org 
250 OK. Current directory is /public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org/calendar_events_data 
tsNetGetTimeouts: 60,0,300000,60000,30,1000


server responses from LC 9.6.8 successful attempt:

Downloading FTPS directory listing for /public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org/calendar_events_data from ftp://ua873228.serversignin.com
Transfer complete with server response code tsneterr: (78) The file does not exist------------------
tRecvHeaders:
220---------- Welcome to Pure-FTPd [privsep] [TLS] ---------- 
220-You are user number 2 of 188 allowed. 
220-Local time is now 23:19. Server port: 21. 
220-This is a private system - No anonymous login 
220-IPv6 connections are also welcome on this server. 
220 You will be disconnected after 30 minutes of inactivity. 
500 This security scheme is not implemented 
234 AUTH TLS OK. 
331 User xxxxxxxxxxx OK. Password required 
230 OK. Current restricted directory is / 
200 PBSZ=0 
200 Data protection level set to "private" 
257 "/" is your current location 
250 OK. Current directory is /public_html 
250 OK. Current directory is /public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org 
500 Unknown command 
227 Entering Passive Mode (192,99,207,157,133,222) 
200 TYPE is now 8-bit binary 
550 I can only retrieve regular files ------------------
Uploading file 2024_calendar_events.txt to ftp://xxxxxxxxxxx.serversignin.com/public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org/calendar_events_data
Transfer complete with server response code 226

tRecvHeaders:
250 OK. Current directory is / 
250 OK. Current directory is /public_html 
250 OK. Current directory is /public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org 
250 OK. Current directory is /public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org/calendar_events_data 
227 Entering Passive Mode (192,99,207,157,120,24) 
150 Accepted data connection 
226-File successfully transferred 
226 0.000 seconds (measured here), 1.75 Mbytes per second 
tsNetGetTimeouts: 60,0,300000,60000,30,1000

From rabit at revigniter.com  Fri Dec  8 06:01:24 2023
From: rabit at revigniter.com (Ralf Bitter)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2023 12:01:24 +0100
Subject: LiveCode server as OAuth2 client for APIs?
In-Reply-To: <A290EA48-FBF6-43B2-8C0D-738A3FD37F73@me.com>
References: <1B469B5C-D740-4105-9A32-A0C8A61085ED@me.com>
 <aad271de-668d-49e3-8ec3-29f99485e4f1@revigniter.com>
 <A290EA48-FBF6-43B2-8C0D-738A3FD37F73@me.com>
Message-ID: <de348ff6-a274-4b6f-9fa1-feb61f457de1@revigniter.com>

Hi Keith,

to avoid creating too much noise here, let's continue
the conversation on the revIgniter mailing list. You'll find my
answer there.


Ralf



On 07.12.2023 18:01, Keith Clarke via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi Ralf,
> Thanks for the guidance and updated formHelper script - and apologies to folks not using LiveCode Server or RevIgniter - I now realise this should have been posted on the use RevIgniter list.
> 
> Ive now got a basic button that submits a form data post to the Salesforce authorisation server. However, there are a couple of issues, which are probably due to me misreading the user guide (again!) and/or getting confused over what markup goes into controller and view files for RevIgniter.
> 
> Im using a controller file to prepare and add to the gData[] array both the form contents and submit button, which are then accessed in the view file, using the following...
> 
> <?	put gData["formOpen"] & gData["submit"] into tForm
>    return tForm	
> ?>
> 
> In the controller file, I first used the recipe for Adding Hidden Input Fields to create an array for the third hidden parameter of the rigFormOpen() function. This worked as a POST but all the hidden fields are visible in the view files html. This is rather insecure for authentication, revealing consumer_id (and in future, client_secret, which Ill need to add to increase security once basic access is proven).
> 
> So, Im hoping the rigFormHidden(tData) recipe can keep the hidden content LiveCode-side' until post submission and out of the HTML. So far the hidden values dont seem to be getting into the POST, as Im getting an unsupported request type (so the response_type=code is not being received).
> 
> Im sure I am taking the wrong approach, as well as incorrect syntax in my controller handler - as if I understand things correctly, the way Ive got parameter three of the rigFormOpen() call pointing at gData[hidden] would, if successful, render the hidden contents visible in the view files html...
> 
>    # Prepare Salesforce login form
>    
>      # Load form helper library
>      rigLoadHelper "form"
>    
>    # Prepare hidden parameter data array
>      put XXsomeClientIdXX" into aHidden["client_id"]
>      put URLencode(XXsomeRedirectURLXX") into aHidden["redirect_uri"]
>      put "code" into aHidden["response_type"]
>      put rigFormHidden(aHidden) into gData["hidden"]
>      
>      # Prepare form
>      put rigFormOpen(XXauthoirisationServerURLXX", ", gData["hidden"]) into gData["formOpen"]
>      
>      # Prepare submit button
>      put "sfLoginBtn" into aData["name"]
>      put "sfLoginBtn" into aData["id"]
>      put "btn btn-primary" into aData["class"]
>      put "submit" into aData["type"]
>      put "Salesforce Login" into aData["value"]
>      
>      put rigSubmitButton(aData) into gData["submit"]
>    
>    # put "Topic1,Topic2,Topic3" into gData["ListItems"]
> 
>    get rigLoadView("homeMainView")
> 
> Im probably making multiple newbie errors, but Ive been unable to find any worked examples of RevIgniter controller and view file markup for form posting. So, Id be obliged for any hints and tips.
> Best,
> Keith
> 
>> On 6 Dec 2023, at 17:53, Ralf Bitter via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Keith,
>>
>> using revIgniter you can always hard code the opening
>> form tag, this way you can use any URL as an action
>> attribute.
>>
>> However, your message has prompted me to change the
>> rigFormOpen() function so that you can override the
>> current URL with the value of an optional action
>> attribute included in the second parameter.
>> So, if you like, you can download the modified
>> version of the form helper at:
>>
>> https://github.com/revig/revigniter/blob/develop/system/helpers/formHelper.livecodescript
>>
>>
>> Ralf
>>
>>
>>
>> On 06.12.2023 11:00, Keith Clarke via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Hi folks,
>>> Does anyone have experience of using OAuth2 with LiveCode server, to log into third-party data sources for API access?
>>>   I am experimenting with a web based utility app that runs on LiveCode server & RevIgniter and I need to be able to log into a Salesforce.com <http://salesforce.com/> account to pull data into the app via APIs. Im following the Salesforce Oauth 2.0 Web Server Flow for Web App Integration https://help.salesforce.com/s/articleView?id=sf.remoteaccess_oauth_web_server_flow.htm&type=5 and
>>> Ive configured the LiveCode app as a connected app in a Salesforce developer instance, to create a consumer id, with which I can request an authorisation code. This requires a POST to a Salesforce endpoint, which, if successful redirects to a page on the Salesforce authorisation server to provide login credentials. This is where Im stuck...
>>> The LiveCode OAuth2 library seems to be desktop centric (expecting any redirects via the loopback IP address of 127.0.0.1, rather than a URL); the RevIgniter forms library seems to support posts to URLs within the LiveCode app but not third party URLs; and if I create a LiveCode file to post data to URL tSalesforceAuthURL from within RevIgniter, I cant see any option to follow redirects and so, unsurprisingly, the page URL doesnt change.
>>> Any advice greatly appreciated.
>>> Best,
>>> Keith


From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Fri Dec  8 10:40:06 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2023 16:40:06 +0100
Subject: tsNetUploadSync()
In-Reply-To: <4BEE9678-D45D-4039-A0E8-80BB90F53EFB@elementarysoftware.com>
References: <4BEE9678-D45D-4039-A0E8-80BB90F53EFB@elementarysoftware.com>
Message-ID: <51455AA3-4AED-43C0-B870-555166E3ED84@m-r-d.de>

Hi Scott,

i just tested here with LC 9.6.10 and 10DP6 on a HostM account and also on a Synology FTP account in Rosetta mode and native on ARM64
I used FTP explicit as protocol.
In all cases it was successful.

My HostM account is on a server located in Germany at Hetzner, Your domain is on a server located in Canada at OHV.
So maybe there was a change in tsNET and there  is a difference between how our servers confirm the successful upload. And maybe the way  your server confirms the upload, does not "comply" with the changes in tsNET.

Maybe the HostM support could help in changing the settings. They are very used with Livecode. Y

Btw.  I could send you the login data for my test account so you could check  if it is working with that account. 
Then you could tell HostM suppert  that there is no problem with a German HostM account.

Regards,
Matthias






> Am 08.12.2023 um 01:13 schrieb scott--- via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> I have a project that uses the business version of tsNet to ftp a file onto a web server. (I’m using a Mac, the server is a shared one on hostm.) This works fine in LC 9.6.8 but fails in subsequent versions of LC 9.6.x as well as LC 10.0.0 (dp 6). I’m fairly ignorant of tsnet and file transfer protocols. My attempts to debug the problem by looking at headers and cURL error codes hasn’t gotten me anywhere useful. Is there something that changed between LC 9.6.8 and LC 9.6.9  that might help inform where I should be looking? I saw that LC 9.6.9 updated the version of OpenSSL it was using but I’m not sure if/how that might effect tsnet. I’ve put more details below.  Any ideas welcomed. (Well, almost any ;- )
> 
> --
> Scott Morrow
> 
> Elementary Software
> (Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
> web       https://elementarysoftware.com/
> email     scott at elementarysoftware.com
> booth    1-360-734-4701
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> When things don’t work I get:
> "Transfer complete with server response code tsneterr: (13) Bad PASV/EPSV response: 250”  — which is confusing to me since:
> 
> "CURLE_FTP_WEIRD_PASV_REPLY (13)
> libcurl failed to get a sensible result back from the server as a response to either a PASV or a EPSV command. The server is flawed.”
> 
> Although a 250 FTP response seems to mean: "Requested file action okay, completed"
> 
> 
> When things do work [LC 9.6.8] I get:
> "Transfer complete with server response code 226”   — which I think means: Closing data connection; requested file action successful
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> A more complete list of responses
> 
> server responses from LC 9.6.11 (rc 1) failed attempt:
> 
> --------- Server Responses ---------
> Downloading FTPS directory listing for /public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org/calendar_events_data from ftp://xxxxxxxxxxx.serversignin.com
> Transfer complete with server response code tsneterr: (13) Bad PASV/EPSV response: 550------------------
> tRecvHeaders:
> 220---------- Welcome to Pure-FTPd [privsep] [TLS] ---------- 
> 220-You are user number 6 of 188 allowed. 
> 220-Local time is now 22:44. Server port: 21. 
> 220-This is a private system - No anonymous login 
> 220-IPv6 connections are also welcome on this server. 
> 220 You will be disconnected after 30 minutes of inactivity. 
> 500 This security scheme is not implemented 
> 234 AUTH TLS OK. 
> 331 User xxxxxxxxxxx OK. Password required 
> 230 OK. Current restricted directory is / 
> 200 PBSZ=0 
> 200 Data protection level set to "private" 
> 257 "/" is your current location 
> 250 OK. Current directory is /public_html 
> 250 OK. Current directory is /public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org 
> 500 Unknown command 
> 227 Entering Passive Mode (192,99,207,157,134,188) 
> 200 TYPE is now 8-bit binary 
> 550 I can only retrieve regular files ------------------
> Uploading file 2024_calendar_events.txt to ftp://xxxxxxxxxxx.serversignin.com/public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org/calendar_events_data
> Transfer complete with server response code tsneterr: (13) Bad PASV/EPSV response: 250
> 
> tRecvHeaders:
> 227 Entering Passive Mode (192,99,207,157,126,230) 
> 250 OK. Current directory is / 
> 250 OK. Current directory is /public_html 
> 250 OK. Current directory is /public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org 
> 250 OK. Current directory is /public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org/calendar_events_data 
> tsNetGetTimeouts: 60,0,300000,60000,30,1000
> 
> 
> server responses from LC 9.6.8 successful attempt:
> 
> Downloading FTPS directory listing for /public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org/calendar_events_data from ftp://ua873228.serversignin.com
> Transfer complete with server response code tsneterr: (78) The file does not exist------------------
> tRecvHeaders:
> 220---------- Welcome to Pure-FTPd [privsep] [TLS] ---------- 
> 220-You are user number 2 of 188 allowed. 
> 220-Local time is now 23:19. Server port: 21. 
> 220-This is a private system - No anonymous login 
> 220-IPv6 connections are also welcome on this server. 
> 220 You will be disconnected after 30 minutes of inactivity. 
> 500 This security scheme is not implemented 
> 234 AUTH TLS OK. 
> 331 User xxxxxxxxxxx OK. Password required 
> 230 OK. Current restricted directory is / 
> 200 PBSZ=0 
> 200 Data protection level set to "private" 
> 257 "/" is your current location 
> 250 OK. Current directory is /public_html 
> 250 OK. Current directory is /public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org 
> 500 Unknown command 
> 227 Entering Passive Mode (192,99,207,157,133,222) 
> 200 TYPE is now 8-bit binary 
> 550 I can only retrieve regular files ------------------
> Uploading file 2024_calendar_events.txt to ftp://xxxxxxxxxxx.serversignin.com/public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org/calendar_events_data
> Transfer complete with server response code 226
> 
> tRecvHeaders:
> 250 OK. Current directory is / 
> 250 OK. Current directory is /public_html 
> 250 OK. Current directory is /public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org 
> 250 OK. Current directory is /public_html/traditionaltaekwondo.org/calendar_events_data 
> 227 Entering Passive Mode (192,99,207,157,120,24) 
> 150 Accepted data connection 
> 226-File successfully transferred 
> 226 0.000 seconds (measured here), 1.75 Mbytes per second 
> tsNetGetTimeouts: 60,0,300000,60000,30,1000
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From gcanyon at gmail.com  Fri Dec  8 16:42:07 2023
From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2023 16:42:07 -0500
Subject: Does the browser widget work?
Message-ID: <CAKCLKtozcaRQKaQjs=S5G_ahdR7HSezru1paLLV7pHWigdgR1A@mail.gmail.com>

set the url of widget 1 to “http://www.google.com” — nothing

set the url of widget 1 to “file:///Users/gcanyon/Desktop/test.html” — also
nothing

Am I doing it wrong?

From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com  Fri Dec  8 16:53:41 2023
From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2023 22:53:41 +0100
Subject: Does the browser widget work?
In-Reply-To: <CAKCLKtozcaRQKaQjs=S5G_ahdR7HSezru1paLLV7pHWigdgR1A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKCLKtozcaRQKaQjs=S5G_ahdR7HSezru1paLLV7pHWigdgR1A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <999D6ECF-5598-41EB-8FD2-E9D0A07F2718@gmail.com>

It works for me (LC 9.6.11, Mac).

Impractically, the browser widget only shows its content with browse tool selected, not pointer tool.
But I suppose your problem isn’t that simple, right…? :)


> 8 dec. 2023 kl. 22:42 skrev Geoff Canyon via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> set the url of widget 1 to “http://www.google.com” — nothing
> 
> set the url of widget 1 to “file:///Users/gcanyon/Desktop/test.html” — also
> nothing
> 
> Am I doing it wrong?


From gcanyon at gmail.com  Fri Dec  8 16:59:59 2023
From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2023 16:59:59 -0500
Subject: Does the browser widget work?
In-Reply-To: <999D6ECF-5598-41EB-8FD2-E9D0A07F2718@gmail.com>
References: <CAKCLKtozcaRQKaQjs=S5G_ahdR7HSezru1paLLV7pHWigdgR1A@mail.gmail.com>
 <999D6ECF-5598-41EB-8FD2-E9D0A07F2718@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKCLKtotnbVmkTJT5BDvvMY6ZuH6bxsZo6xNE3_ODs5hikjL6w@mail.gmail.com>

Good gosh, WHY!?

(That fixed it, thanks)

On Fri, Dec 8, 2023 at 4:53 PM Andreas Bergendal <
andreas.bergendal at gmail.com> wrote:

> It works for me (LC 9.6.11, Mac).
>
> Impractically, the browser widget only shows its content with browse tool
> selected, not pointer tool.
> But I suppose your problem isn’t that simple, right…? :)
>
>
> > 8 dec. 2023 kl. 22:42 skrev Geoff Canyon via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> >
> > set the url of widget 1 to “http://www.google.com” — nothing
> >
> > set the url of widget 1 to “file:///Users/gcanyon/Desktop/test.html” —
> also
> > nothing
> >
> > Am I doing it wrong?
>

From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Dec  8 17:29:42 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2023 22:29:42 +0000
Subject: Does the browser widget work?
In-Reply-To: <CAKCLKtotnbVmkTJT5BDvvMY6ZuH6bxsZo6xNE3_ODs5hikjL6w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKCLKtozcaRQKaQjs=S5G_ahdR7HSezru1paLLV7pHWigdgR1A@mail.gmail.com>
 <999D6ECF-5598-41EB-8FD2-E9D0A07F2718@gmail.com>
 <CAKCLKtotnbVmkTJT5BDvvMY6ZuH6bxsZo6xNE3_ODs5hikjL6w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0127CE6A-2FC0-4C98-A965-C905F26F3316@iotecdigital.com>

Imagine certain accidental and unwanted web page spewing out sound and questionable content at work and no way to make it stop. That is one excellent reason I can give for why. :-)

Bob S


> On Dec 8, 2023, at 1:59 PM, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Good gosh, WHY!?
> 
> (That fixed it, thanks)
> 
> On Fri, Dec 8, 2023 at 4:53 PM Andreas Bergendal <
> andreas.bergendal at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> It works for me (LC 9.6.11, Mac).
>> 
>> Impractically, the browser widget only shows its content with browse tool
>> selected, not pointer tool.
>> But I suppose your problem isn’t that simple, right…? :)
>> 
>> 
>>> 8 dec. 2023 kl. 22:42 skrev Geoff Canyon via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> set the url of widget 1 to “http://www.google.com” — nothing
>>> 
>>> set the url of widget 1 to “file:///Users/gcanyon/Desktop/test.html” —
>> also
>>> nothing
>>> 
>>> Am I doing it wrong?
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Dec  8 18:42:50 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2023 23:42:50 +0000
Subject: Get rid of the remote debugger
Message-ID: <18F929FA-49AB-4B89-AC1D-E714F4326299@iotecdigital.com>

I occasionally get the dreaded error in remote debugger stack is password protected issue. I don’t WANT the remote debugger. I do not NEED the remote debugger. How can I rid myself of this incredibly annoying pest? 

Bob S


From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Fri Dec  8 19:14:48 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2023 01:14:48 +0100
Subject: Get rid of the remote debugger
In-Reply-To: <18F929FA-49AB-4B89-AC1D-E714F4326299@iotecdigital.com>
References: <18F929FA-49AB-4B89-AC1D-E714F4326299@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <9F518B85-69A5-4D26-A8AA-A4019DD084E4@m-r-d.de>

Hm, did you already try to delete the folder   Extensions/com.livecode.library.remotedebugger in the Livecode Extensions folder?

> Am 09.12.2023 um 00:42 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> I occasionally get the dreaded error in remote debugger stack is password protected issue. I don’t WANT the remote debugger. I do not NEED the remote debugger. How can I rid myself of this incredibly annoying pest? 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Dec  8 22:01:15 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2023 21:01:15 -0600
Subject: Get rid of the remote debugger
In-Reply-To: <9F518B85-69A5-4D26-A8AA-A4019DD084E4@m-r-d.de>
References: <18F929FA-49AB-4B89-AC1D-E714F4326299@iotecdigital.com>
 <9F518B85-69A5-4D26-A8AA-A4019DD084E4@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <18c4c85a078.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

Piggy backing... Did you try turning off script debugging from the 
development menu?

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On December 8, 2023 6:16:57 PM matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hm, did you already try to delete the folder   
> Extensions/com.livecode.library.remotedebugger in the Livecode Extensions 
> folder?
>
>> Am 09.12.2023 um 00:42 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>
>> I occasionally get the dreaded error in remote debugger stack is password 
>> protected issue. I dont WANT the remote debugger. I do not NEED the remote 
>> debugger. How can I rid myself of this incredibly annoying pest?
>>
>> Bob S
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From paul at researchware.com  Sat Dec  9 08:33:44 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2023 08:33:44 -0500
Subject: Get rid of the remote debugger
In-Reply-To: <18c4c85a078.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <18F929FA-49AB-4B89-AC1D-E714F4326299@iotecdigital.com>
 <9F518B85-69A5-4D26-A8AA-A4019DD084E4@m-r-d.de>
 <18c4c85a078.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <47084ee5-22ec-440b-bbd2-7238aa9fbd6c@researchware.com>

For what it's worth, I sometime get these errors. I develop on Windows 
11 (x64) using LC 9.6.11 and do not develop for mobile or web, so no 
remote debugging. I do not want to get rid of (remove) or turn off 
script debugging. I use the script debugger all the time.

There is some recipe, that I have not figured out yet, where this error 
occurs, when you are just doing what I'd consider "normal" debugging. I 
just have not had time to pin it down. (To busy filing PDF Widget bugs 
and enhancements to get it to parity with the XPDF external).

Paul Dupuis
Researchware

On 12/8/2023 10:01 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
> Piggy backing... Did you try turning off script debugging from the 
> development menu?
>
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On December 8, 2023 6:16:57 PM matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> Hm, did you already try to delete the folder   
>> Extensions/com.livecode.library.remotedebugger in the Livecode 
>> Extensions folder?
>>
>>> Am 09.12.2023 um 00:42 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>
>>> I occasionally get the dreaded error in remote debugger stack is 
>>> password protected issue. I dont WANT the remote debugger. I do not 
>>> NEED the remote debugger. How can I rid myself of this incredibly 
>>> annoying pest?
>>>
>>> Bob S
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From tom at makeshyft.com  Sat Dec  9 16:22:37 2023
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2023 16:22:37 -0500
Subject: APPWrite Integration
Message-ID: <CAPzQJLJHuOx-PGEbQUaCWC1mL_sx6Hkwg-vusirFYhRLYKczzA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Folks,

If anyone here is interested in a working APPWrite LC Integration, pm me.
Authentication & JWT Token
And document CRUD.
Using TSNet

If you've never heard of it, appwrite.io

Cheers,

Tom

From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Sun Dec 10 16:59:42 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2023 21:59:42 +0000
Subject: Get rid of the remote debugger
In-Reply-To: <47084ee5-22ec-440b-bbd2-7238aa9fbd6c@researchware.com>
References: <18F929FA-49AB-4B89-AC1D-E714F4326299@iotecdigital.com>
 <9F518B85-69A5-4D26-A8AA-A4019DD084E4@m-r-d.de>
 <18c4c85a078.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <47084ee5-22ec-440b-bbd2-7238aa9fbd6c@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <43DE7FB7-8C88-4C28-B95E-A048117FA527@iotecdigital.com>

I will try the suggestions, however I use the IDE debugger extensively so that is not an option. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 9, 2023, at 05:35, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> For what it's worth, I sometime get these errors. I develop on Windows 11 (x64) using LC 9.6.11 and do not develop for mobile or web, so no remote debugging. I do not want to get rid of (remove) or turn off script debugging. I use the script debugger all the time.
> 
> There is some recipe, that I have not figured out yet, where this error occurs, when you are just doing what I'd consider "normal" debugging. I just have not had time to pin it down. (To busy filing PDF Widget bugs and enhancements to get it to parity with the XPDF external).
> 
> Paul Dupuis
> Researchware
> 
>> On 12/8/2023 10:01 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
>> Piggy backing... Did you try turning off script debugging from the development menu?
>> 
>> -- 
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>> On December 8, 2023 6:16:57 PM matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hm, did you already try to delete the folder   Extensions/com.livecode.library.remotedebugger in the Livecode Extensions folder?
>>> 
>>>> Am 09.12.2023 um 00:42 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>> 
>>>> I occasionally get the dreaded error in remote debugger stack is password protected issue. I don’t WANT the remote debugger. I do not NEED the remote debugger. How can I rid myself of this incredibly annoying pest?
>>>> 
>>>> Bob S
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun Dec 10 19:05:16 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2023 18:05:16 -0600
Subject: Get rid of the remote debugger
In-Reply-To: <43DE7FB7-8C88-4C28-B95E-A048117FA527@iotecdigital.com>
References: <18F929FA-49AB-4B89-AC1D-E714F4326299@iotecdigital.com>
 <9F518B85-69A5-4D26-A8AA-A4019DD084E4@m-r-d.de>
 <18c4c85a078.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <47084ee5-22ec-440b-bbd2-7238aa9fbd6c@researchware.com>
 <43DE7FB7-8C88-4C28-B95E-A048117FA527@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <18c56313a60.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

You can just turn it off when testing mobile and restore it when back in 
the IDE.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On December 10, 2023 4:02:01 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I will try the suggestions, however I use the IDE debugger extensively so 
> that is not an option.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Dec 9, 2023, at 05:35, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> For what it's worth, I sometime get these errors. I develop on Windows 11 
>> (x64) using LC 9.6.11 and do not develop for mobile or web, so no remote 
>> debugging. I do not want to get rid of (remove) or turn off script 
>> debugging. I use the script debugger all the time.
>>
>> There is some recipe, that I have not figured out yet, where this error 
>> occurs, when you are just doing what I'd consider "normal" debugging. I 
>> just have not had time to pin it down. (To busy filing PDF Widget bugs and 
>> enhancements to get it to parity with the XPDF external).
>>
>> Paul Dupuis
>> Researchware
>>
>>> On 12/8/2023 10:01 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Piggy backing... Did you try turning off script debugging from the 
>>> development menu?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>>> On December 8, 2023 6:16:57 PM matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
>>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hm, did you already try to delete the folder   
>>>> Extensions/com.livecode.library.remotedebugger in the Livecode Extensions 
>>>> folder?
>>>>
>>>>> Am 09.12.2023 um 00:42 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>>>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>> I occasionally get the dreaded error in remote debugger stack is password 
>>>>> protected issue. I dont WANT the remote debugger. I do not NEED the remote 
>>>>> debugger. How can I rid myself of this incredibly annoying pest?
>>>>>
>>>>> Bob S
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Sun Dec 10 19:25:31 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2023 00:25:31 +0000
Subject: Get rid of the remote debugger
In-Reply-To: <18c56313a60.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <18F929FA-49AB-4B89-AC1D-E714F4326299@iotecdigital.com>
 <9F518B85-69A5-4D26-A8AA-A4019DD084E4@m-r-d.de>
 <18c4c85a078.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <47084ee5-22ec-440b-bbd2-7238aa9fbd6c@researchware.com>
 <43DE7FB7-8C88-4C28-B95E-A048117FA527@iotecdigital.com>
 <18c56313a60.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <C434DED2-894E-4B56-A505-1E2091F31318@iotecdigital.com>

The problem is that I am not testing a mobile app. I am simply launching a stack in the IDE. The remote debugger should not even be in the message path. It’s clear there is a problem with my code, but because the Debugger gets in the way I can’t tell where. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 10, 2023, at 16:06, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> You can just turn it off when testing mobile and restore it when back in the IDE.
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>> On December 10, 2023 4:02:01 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I will try the suggestions, however I use the IDE debugger extensively so that is not an option.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>>> On Dec 9, 2023, at 05:35, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> For what it's worth, I sometime get these errors. I develop on Windows 11 (x64) using LC 9.6.11 and do not develop for mobile or web, so no remote debugging. I do not want to get rid of (remove) or turn off script debugging. I use the script debugger all the time.
>>> 
>>> There is some recipe, that I have not figured out yet, where this error occurs, when you are just doing what I'd consider "normal" debugging. I just have not had time to pin it down. (To busy filing PDF Widget bugs and enhancements to get it to parity with the XPDF external).
>>> 
>>> Paul Dupuis
>>> Researchware
>>> 
>>>> On 12/8/2023 10:01 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> Piggy backing... Did you try turning off script debugging from the development menu?
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>>>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>>>> On December 8, 2023 6:16:57 PM matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hm, did you already try to delete the folder   Extensions/com.livecode.library.remotedebugger in the Livecode Extensions folder?
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Am 09.12.2023 um 00:42 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I occasionally get the dreaded error in remote debugger stack is password protected issue. I don’t WANT the remote debugger. I do not NEED the remote debugger. How can I rid myself of this incredibly annoying pest?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Bob S
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Dec 11 00:19:02 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2023 23:19:02 -0600
Subject: Get rid of the remote debugger
In-Reply-To: <C434DED2-894E-4B56-A505-1E2091F31318@iotecdigital.com>
References: <18F929FA-49AB-4B89-AC1D-E714F4326299@iotecdigital.com>
 <9F518B85-69A5-4D26-A8AA-A4019DD084E4@m-r-d.de>
 <18c4c85a078.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <47084ee5-22ec-440b-bbd2-7238aa9fbd6c@researchware.com>
 <43DE7FB7-8C88-4C28-B95E-A048117FA527@iotecdigital.com>
 <18c56313a60.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <C434DED2-894E-4B56-A505-1E2091F31318@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <18c57507d70.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

Oh! Sorry, I thought you were testing on mobile. I don't think you should 
be getting errors from the remote debugger when you're in the IDE...very 
strange.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On December 10, 2023 6:27:33 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> The problem is that I am not testing a mobile app. I am simply launching a 
> stack in the IDE. The remote debugger should not even be in the message 
> path. Its clear there is a problem with my code, but because the Debugger 
> gets in the way I cant tell where.





From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Mon Dec 11 11:36:18 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2023 16:36:18 +0000
Subject: Get rid of the remote debugger
In-Reply-To: <9F518B85-69A5-4D26-A8AA-A4019DD084E4@m-r-d.de>
References: <18F929FA-49AB-4B89-AC1D-E714F4326299@iotecdigital.com>
 <9F518B85-69A5-4D26-A8AA-A4019DD084E4@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <D5D80BA7-73F7-44D9-A1FC-8E2A17788B2C@iotecdigital.com>

That is not where the remote debugger lives on MacOS. It is in the Application package. I can try to remove it from there and see what happens. 

Bob S


> On Dec 8, 2023, at 4:14 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hm, did you already try to delete the folder   Extensions/com.livecode.library.remotedebugger in the Livecode Extensions folder?
> 
>> Am 09.12.2023 um 00:42 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> I occasionally get the dreaded error in remote debugger stack is password protected issue. I don’t WANT the remote debugger. I do not NEED the remote debugger. How can I rid myself of this incredibly annoying pest? 
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Mon Dec 11 11:41:27 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2023 16:41:27 +0000
Subject: Get rid of the remote debugger
In-Reply-To: <D5D80BA7-73F7-44D9-A1FC-8E2A17788B2C@iotecdigital.com>
References: <18F929FA-49AB-4B89-AC1D-E714F4326299@iotecdigital.com>
 <9F518B85-69A5-4D26-A8AA-A4019DD084E4@m-r-d.de>
 <D5D80BA7-73F7-44D9-A1FC-8E2A17788B2C@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <528E4C6A-70B4-4ECB-8377-4DD185ECFE87@iotecdigital.com>

Ahah! I removed the folder from the application package extensions folder and I no longer get the error! Also, my code is not throwing ANY kind of error, so this is definitely something wrong with the remote debugger or something else that thinks a remote debugger error has occurred when it hasn’t. 

Bob S


> On Dec 11, 2023, at 8:36 AM, Bob Sneidar <bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com> wrote:
> 
> That is not where the remote debugger lives on MacOS. It is in the Application package. I can try to remove it from there and see what happens. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Dec 8, 2023, at 4:14 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hm, did you already try to delete the folder   Extensions/com.livecode.library.remotedebugger in the Livecode Extensions folder?
>> 
>>> Am 09.12.2023 um 00:42 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> I occasionally get the dreaded error in remote debugger stack is password protected issue. I don’t WANT the remote debugger. I do not NEED the remote debugger. How can I rid myself of this incredibly annoying pest? 
>>> 
>>> Bob S
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Dec 11 14:19:47 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2023 13:19:47 -0600
Subject: Get rid of the remote debugger
In-Reply-To: <528E4C6A-70B4-4ECB-8377-4DD185ECFE87@iotecdigital.com>
References: <18F929FA-49AB-4B89-AC1D-E714F4326299@iotecdigital.com>
 <9F518B85-69A5-4D26-A8AA-A4019DD084E4@m-r-d.de>
 <D5D80BA7-73F7-44D9-A1FC-8E2A17788B2C@iotecdigital.com>
 <528E4C6A-70B4-4ECB-8377-4DD185ECFE87@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <18c5a523838.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

If you have a reproducible script it would be something LC probably should 
know about in a bug report.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On December 11, 2023 10:43:27 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Ahah! I removed the folder from the application package extensions folder 
> and I no longer get the error! Also, my code is not throwing ANY kind of 
> error, so this is definitely something wrong with the remote debugger or 
> something else that thinks a remote debugger error has occurred when it hasnt.
>
> Bob S
>
>
>> On Dec 11, 2023, at 8:36 AM, Bob Sneidar <bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com> wrote:
>>
>> That is not where the remote debugger lives on MacOS. It is in the 
>> Application package. I can try to remove it from there and see what happens.
>>
>> Bob S
>>
>>
>>> On Dec 8, 2023, at 4:14 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hm, did you already try to delete the folder   
>>> Extensions/com.livecode.library.remotedebugger in the Livecode Extensions 
>>> folder?
>>>
>>>> Am 09.12.2023 um 00:42 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>>
>>>> I occasionally get the dreaded error in remote debugger stack is password 
>>>> protected issue. I dont WANT the remote debugger. I do not NEED the remote 
>>>> debugger. How can I rid myself of this incredibly annoying pest?
>>>>
>>>> Bob S
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Mon Dec 11 14:35:16 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2023 19:35:16 +0000
Subject: Get rid of the remote debugger
In-Reply-To: <18c5a523838.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <18F929FA-49AB-4B89-AC1D-E714F4326299@iotecdigital.com>
 <9F518B85-69A5-4D26-A8AA-A4019DD084E4@m-r-d.de>
 <D5D80BA7-73F7-44D9-A1FC-8E2A17788B2C@iotecdigital.com>
 <528E4C6A-70B4-4ECB-8377-4DD185ECFE87@iotecdigital.com>
 <18c5a523838.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <2276BD3E-C677-4188-BE00-8E5FBFDA1C9C@iotecdigital.com>

See that is the exact problem. Because when enabled, the remoteScriptDebugger says there is an error, but cannot show me where the error is because the script is locked, I have no clue as to what script (if any) is causing the issue. That is why I asked if anyone had the password to the remoteScriptDebugger, so I could trace it back.

And to further complicate things, once I remove the remoteScriptDebugger, none of my regular scripts are failing, unless it is failing silently which lands me right where I started.

Anyway, at least I have a workaround.

Bob S


On Dec 11, 2023, at 11:19 AM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

If you have a reproducible script it would be something LC probably should know about in a bug report.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com<mailto:jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com<http://www.hyperactivesw.com/>


From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au  Mon Dec 11 15:15:36 2023
From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe)
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2023 07:15:36 +1100
Subject: Get rid of the remote debugger
Message-ID: <D5C969EF-F88C-41E3-9C30-BE683D9F108C@optusnet.com.au>

Bob: There may be a problem with your code.
I believe I have seen the Remote Debugger message when I had a runtime error in a modal dialog. In earlier versions of LiveCode the dialog would fail silently, returning to the stack without reporting any error but actually not executing any code after the error. This was an LC bug and is supposed to have been fixed but instead of getting a useful error reported from the modal dialog I got the unhelpful Remote Debugger message … better than nothing.

If you have a modal dialog try running your stack with the dialog non-modally to check this possibility.

Neville Smythe




From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Mon Dec 11 15:17:47 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2023 21:17:47 +0100
Subject: Get rid of the remote debugger
In-Reply-To: <D5D80BA7-73F7-44D9-A1FC-8E2A17788B2C@iotecdigital.com>
References: <18F929FA-49AB-4B89-AC1D-E714F4326299@iotecdigital.com>
 <9F518B85-69A5-4D26-A8AA-A4019DD084E4@m-r-d.de>
 <D5D80BA7-73F7-44D9-A1FC-8E2A17788B2C@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <DCF5BA40-8B91-4093-92E4-641498B5F7AE@m-r-d.de>

I meant the extensions folder in the app bundle, just don't mentioned it. Thought that it is clear that all included extensions reside in the app bundle. ;)



> Am 11.12.2023 um 17:36 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> That is not where the remote debugger lives on MacOS. It is in the Application package. I can try to remove it from there and see what happens. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Dec 8, 2023, at 4:14 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hm, did you already try to delete the folder   Extensions/com.livecode.library.remotedebugger in the Livecode Extensions folder?
>> 
>>> Am 09.12.2023 um 00:42 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> I occasionally get the dreaded error in remote debugger stack is password protected issue. I don’t WANT the remote debugger. I do not NEED the remote debugger. How can I rid myself of this incredibly annoying pest? 
>>> 
>>> Bob S
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From panos.merakos at livecode.com  Tue Dec 12 11:09:02 2023
From: panos.merakos at livecode.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2023 18:09:02 +0200
Subject: [[ANN]] Release 10.0.0 DP-7
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq8irXtQMuh0VcbF64SckqnGOgkdxGt_rma0RbeWyCiNQQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear list members,

We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 10.0.0 DP-7.

LiveCode 10.0.0 DP-7 comes with more than 16 bugfixes and new features
since the previous DP release, and also includes the bug fixes of LiveCode
9.6.11, such as support for building with Xcode 15 / iOS 17 SDK and some
fixes for macOS Sonoma.

You can find more details on the bug fixes and improvements of this new
release here:

https://livecode.com/livecode-10-dp-7-ios-17-sonoma-fixes/

You can find the release in your LiveCode account area or get it via the
automatic updater.

Enjoy!

Kind regards
The LiveCode Team
--

From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Tue Dec 12 15:24:19 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2023 20:24:19 +0000
Subject: [[ANN]] Release 10.0.0 DP-7
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq8irXtQMuh0VcbF64SckqnGOgkdxGt_rma0RbeWyCiNQQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+JfEq8irXtQMuh0VcbF64SckqnGOgkdxGt_rma0RbeWyCiNQQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <370CED91-BEF7-4AF0-94C1-A20D41A8E943@gmail.com>

Thank you Panos. I look forward to diving into this.

Mark

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 12, 2023, at 4:10 PM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Dear list members,
> 
> We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 10.0.0 DP-7.
> 
> LiveCode 10.0.0 DP-7 comes with more than 16 bugfixes and new features
> since the previous DP release, and also includes the bug fixes of LiveCode
> 9.6.11, such as support for building with Xcode 15 / iOS 17 SDK and some
> fixes for macOS Sonoma.
> 
> You can find more details on the bug fixes and improvements of this new
> release here:
> 
> https://livecode.com/livecode-10-dp-7-ios-17-sonoma-fixes/
> 
> You can find the release in your LiveCode account area or get it via the
> automatic updater.
> 
> Enjoy!
> 
> Kind regards
> The LiveCode Team
> --
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com  Wed Dec 13 14:08:15 2023
From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2023 20:08:15 +0100
Subject: Your scripts as a flowchart
In-Reply-To: <e2432ecf-2c08-4e3c-a4e0-8337b8541f54@speedbump.io>
References: <49103ECE-97F3-4305-A3B4-01A0E377E158@gmail.com>
 <CAKCLKtpqQXm8OwOuhb=2QSTzd+zqFF5fWiWpH0WZ6uxtVuxYRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <18a9f0eaa08.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <CAKCLKtofwpfMt7L05z5CbCqA=xeEa3YM3bbodwdv0ZWK3bYBEw@mail.gmail.com>
 <023C9AEA-7B3A-455E-B6DC-18164BBF04B5@gmail.com>
 <CAKCLKtrOSD0O3kvs43Q_mJno4Dkf3e4Rv-JigjunPZJJP_s2pQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKCLKtr7_H9=htuGpOJiM_qOKKHONVimCYFLj2GRsN65jifqWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5357224F-1A01-4F2E-804A-014467118930@gmail.com>
 <45122269-0cd1-47ff-9dac-bb5c003ca1c4@speedbump.io>
 <C24EEA90-E5E2-4FB8-B0EF-C30DD601FB37@gmail.com>
 <e2432ecf-2c08-4e3c-a4e0-8337b8541f54@speedbump.io>
Message-ID: <A9BBAB28-D426-4613-A45A-C6C8A8E8AD86@gmail.com>

Latest WIS_ScriptDependencies update:

1.1.6 (12 Dec 2023)
- Enhancement: If the Kroki service is down, so no png/svg can be produced, a dialog is presented giving the choice to render the flowchart as html instead
- Enhancement: Improved design of the help section and the flowchart settings pane
- Enhancement: Mermaid version can now be modified (affects html rendering only). This is not something you’d normally need to do, but it has turned out that the latest versions of Mermaid implement some kind of hard limit on the number of edges, preventing large flowcharts from rendering. So for now, Mermaid v10.5.1 is default (no edge limit), but can be changed to a later version by advanced users.
- Fixed bug: Some actions in the mainstack triggered flowchart updates even if the flowchart substack was closed
- Other minor fixes

Download here:
https://github.com/wheninspace/WIS_ScriptDependencies/releases/latest

From markclark at mac.com  Wed Dec 13 19:33:17 2023
From: markclark at mac.com (Mark Clark)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2023 18:33:17 -0600
Subject: ferruslogic timer
Message-ID: <7DE4DC5C-E7C2-4BA8-988B-4ABE5793B1AD@mac.com>

Seems like there was a handy timer widget by ferrus logic a while back. Think the extension was community.livecode.ferruslogic.timer -- Not seeing it on google or github. Discontinued? (I should have been more careful removing old app bundles)

Mark

From bdrunrev at gmail.com  Thu Dec 14 09:24:46 2023
From: bdrunrev at gmail.com (Bernard Devlin)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 14:24:46 +0000
Subject: OT: htmx and hyperscript
Message-ID: <CA+O+R-FhdOH7Rbvxfk_qNfLrqmXeB4C-FgeGH-_ctscFD7Ud5w@mail.gmail.com>

As I was looking into htmx (which is basically going in the opposite
direction to that which Livecode is taking with WASM), I discovered the
author of htmx has also implemented a kind of hypertalk in the browser (the
point being to more simply hook into DOM events).

It looks rather ugly IMO (unlike htmx).  But I know people on this list are
often interested in descendants/hat-tips to Hypercard.

https://hyperscript.org/

Regards, Bernard

From paul at researchware.com  Thu Dec 14 16:22:13 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 16:22:13 -0500
Subject: Which is faster...
Message-ID: <719ea94e-6473-4ce2-a992-8bc371c8c446@researchware.com>

Which is faster or more efficient (from an engine performance perspective)?

To retrieve an array from a property?
As in:
command someHandler -- in an objects script
   get the cMyArray from me -- cMyArray is some multi-dimensional array
   ...
end someHandler

OR

To retrieve an array from a script local variable?
As in:
local sMyArray -- script local variable in some objects script

command someHandler -- in an objects script
   get sMyArray
   ...
end someHandler

Anyone know?


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu Dec 14 16:45:53 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 21:45:53 +0000
Subject: Which is faster...
In-Reply-To: <719ea94e-6473-4ce2-a992-8bc371c8c446@researchware.com>
References: <719ea94e-6473-4ce2-a992-8bc371c8c446@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <C5D56BA7-22A0-4D4C-A33D-6533F511ADF8@iotecdigital.com>

I think the confusion comes from thinking so much of a stack as an object that has substance, when really all the properties are places in memory just like a memory variable is. I asked this some years back and the answer I got was that there is no appreciable difference.

One could always devise a test though…

Bob S


On Dec 14, 2023, at 1:22 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

Which is faster or more efficient (from an engine performance perspective)?

To retrieve an array from a property?
As in:
command someHandler -- in an objects script
  get the cMyArray from me -- cMyArray is some multi-dimensional array
  ...
end someHandler

OR

To retrieve an array from a script local variable?
As in:
local sMyArray -- script local variable in some objects script

command someHandler -- in an objects script
  get sMyArray
  ...
end someHandler

Anyone know?


From paul at researchware.com  Thu Dec 14 16:55:14 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 16:55:14 -0500
Subject: Which is faster...
In-Reply-To: <C5D56BA7-22A0-4D4C-A33D-6533F511ADF8@iotecdigital.com>
References: <719ea94e-6473-4ce2-a992-8bc371c8c446@researchware.com>
 <C5D56BA7-22A0-4D4C-A33D-6533F511ADF8@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <204ed529-064d-4ad0-a693-fee00f02fe94@researchware.com>

Bob,

Thank you. I could script a timing test but sometime just asking the 
list or forums is easier. You asnwered well before I would have had the 
time to write a basic test script. Thanks!


On 12/14/2023 4:45 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
> I think the confusion comes from thinking so much of a stack as an object that has substance, when really all the properties are places in memory just like a memory variable is. I asked this some years back and the answer I got was that there is no appreciable difference.
>
> One could always devise a test though
>
> Bob S
>
>
> On Dec 14, 2023, at 1:22 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> Which is faster or more efficient (from an engine performance perspective)?
>
> To retrieve an array from a property?
> As in:
> command someHandler -- in an objects script
>    get the cMyArray from me -- cMyArray is some multi-dimensional array
>    ...
> end someHandler
>
> OR
>
> To retrieve an array from a script local variable?
> As in:
> local sMyArray -- script local variable in some objects script
>
> command someHandler -- in an objects script
>    get sMyArray
>    ...
> end someHandler
>
> Anyone know?
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From craig at starfirelighting.com  Thu Dec 14 17:25:32 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 17:25:32 -0500
Subject: Which is faster...
In-Reply-To: <204ed529-064d-4ad0-a693-fee00f02fe94@researchware.com>
References: <719ea94e-6473-4ce2-a992-8bc371c8c446@researchware.com>
 <C5D56BA7-22A0-4D4C-A33D-6533F511ADF8@iotecdigital.com>
 <204ed529-064d-4ad0-a693-fee00f02fe94@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <3B75B569-02F5-4B34-B45C-98A674F39669@starfirelighting.com>

Anything to distract me from my day job.

An array with 100,000 elements and a variable with 100,00 lines take the same time to place into a field.

The only time that took a while was building them. Each took 10 milliseconds.

Craig

> On Dec 14, 2023, at 4:55 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Bob,
> 
> Thank you. I could script a timing test but sometime just asking the list or forums is easier. You asnwered well before I would have had the time to write a basic test script. Thanks!
> 
> 
> On 12/14/2023 4:45 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
>> I think the confusion comes from thinking so much of a stack as an object that has substance, when really all the properties are places in memory just like a memory variable is. I asked this some years back and the answer I got was that there is no appreciable difference.
>> 
>> One could always devise a test though…
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>> 
>> On Dec 14, 2023, at 1:22 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Which is faster or more efficient (from an engine performance perspective)?
>> 
>> To retrieve an array from a property?
>> As in:
>> command someHandler -- in an objects script
>>   get the cMyArray from me -- cMyArray is some multi-dimensional array
>>   ...
>> end someHandler
>> 
>> OR
>> 
>> To retrieve an array from a script local variable?
>> As in:
>> local sMyArray -- script local variable in some objects script
>> 
>> command someHandler -- in an objects script
>>   get sMyArray
>>   ...
>> end someHandler
>> 
>> Anyone know?
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From paul at researchware.com  Thu Dec 14 17:30:49 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 17:30:49 -0500
Subject: Which is faster...
In-Reply-To: <3B75B569-02F5-4B34-B45C-98A674F39669@starfirelighting.com>
References: <719ea94e-6473-4ce2-a992-8bc371c8c446@researchware.com>
 <C5D56BA7-22A0-4D4C-A33D-6533F511ADF8@iotecdigital.com>
 <204ed529-064d-4ad0-a693-fee00f02fe94@researchware.com>
 <3B75B569-02F5-4B34-B45C-98A674F39669@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <9e930437-9f6b-4c43-8478-22d82f28a81b@researchware.com>

On 12/14/2023 5:25 PM, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote:
> Anything to distract me from my day job.
Glad I could help!

And thank you for the confirming benchmarks!

From craig at starfirelighting.com  Thu Dec 14 17:32:09 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 17:32:09 -0500
Subject: Which is faster...
In-Reply-To: <3B75B569-02F5-4B34-B45C-98A674F39669@starfirelighting.com>
References: <719ea94e-6473-4ce2-a992-8bc371c8c446@researchware.com>
 <C5D56BA7-22A0-4D4C-A33D-6533F511ADF8@iotecdigital.com>
 <204ed529-064d-4ad0-a693-fee00f02fe94@researchware.com>
 <3B75B569-02F5-4B34-B45C-98A674F39669@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <A3979B6E-FD85-4CFD-B393-C2E6B7C82327@starfirelighting.com>

Typo in the last post. BOTH had 100,000 elements or lines.

Craig

> On Dec 14, 2023, at 5:25 PM, Craig Newman <craig at starfirelighting.com> wrote:
> 
> Anything to distract me from my day job.
> 
> An array with 100,000 elements and a variable with 100,00 lines take the same time to place into a field.
> 
> The only time that took a while was building them. Each took 10 milliseconds.
> 
> Craig
> 
>> On Dec 14, 2023, at 4:55 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Bob,
>> 
>> Thank you. I could script a timing test but sometime just asking the list or forums is easier. You asnwered well before I would have had the time to write a basic test script. Thanks!
>> 
>> 
>> On 12/14/2023 4:45 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
>>> I think the confusion comes from thinking so much of a stack as an object that has substance, when really all the properties are places in memory just like a memory variable is. I asked this some years back and the answer I got was that there is no appreciable difference.
>>> 
>>> One could always devise a test though…
>>> 
>>> Bob S
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Dec 14, 2023, at 1:22 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Which is faster or more efficient (from an engine performance perspective)?
>>> 
>>> To retrieve an array from a property?
>>> As in:
>>> command someHandler -- in an objects script
>>>  get the cMyArray from me -- cMyArray is some multi-dimensional array
>>>  ...
>>> end someHandler
>>> 
>>> OR
>>> 
>>> To retrieve an array from a script local variable?
>>> As in:
>>> local sMyArray -- script local variable in some objects script
>>> 
>>> command someHandler -- in an objects script
>>>  get sMyArray
>>>  ...
>>> end someHandler
>>> 
>>> Anyone know?
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 



From craig at starfirelighting.com  Thu Dec 14 17:33:40 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 17:33:40 -0500
Subject: Which is faster...
In-Reply-To: <A3979B6E-FD85-4CFD-B393-C2E6B7C82327@starfirelighting.com>
References: <719ea94e-6473-4ce2-a992-8bc371c8c446@researchware.com>
 <C5D56BA7-22A0-4D4C-A33D-6533F511ADF8@iotecdigital.com>
 <204ed529-064d-4ad0-a693-fee00f02fe94@researchware.com>
 <3B75B569-02F5-4B34-B45C-98A674F39669@starfirelighting.com>
 <A3979B6E-FD85-4CFD-B393-C2E6B7C82327@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <EF21484A-C0B3-4B35-9CB7-6CB533D13531@starfirelighting.com>

Laziness in the last post.

BOTH took 10 mS to fill an ordinary variable.

Craig

> On Dec 14, 2023, at 5:32 PM, Craig Newman <craig at starfirelighting.com> wrote:
> 
> Typo in the last post. BOTH had 100,000 elements or lines.
> 
> Craig
> 
>> On Dec 14, 2023, at 5:25 PM, Craig Newman <craig at starfirelighting.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Anything to distract me from my day job.
>> 
>> An array with 100,000 elements and a variable with 100,00 lines take the same time to place into a field.
>> 
>> The only time that took a while was building them. Each took 10 milliseconds.
>> 
>> Craig
>> 
>>> On Dec 14, 2023, at 4:55 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Bob,
>>> 
>>> Thank you. I could script a timing test but sometime just asking the list or forums is easier. You asnwered well before I would have had the time to write a basic test script. Thanks!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 12/14/2023 4:45 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> I think the confusion comes from thinking so much of a stack as an object that has substance, when really all the properties are places in memory just like a memory variable is. I asked this some years back and the answer I got was that there is no appreciable difference.
>>>> 
>>>> One could always devise a test though…
>>>> 
>>>> Bob S
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Dec 14, 2023, at 1:22 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Which is faster or more efficient (from an engine performance perspective)?
>>>> 
>>>> To retrieve an array from a property?
>>>> As in:
>>>> command someHandler -- in an objects script
>>>> get the cMyArray from me -- cMyArray is some multi-dimensional array
>>>> ...
>>>> end someHandler
>>>> 
>>>> OR
>>>> 
>>>> To retrieve an array from a script local variable?
>>>> As in:
>>>> local sMyArray -- script local variable in some objects script
>>>> 
>>>> command someHandler -- in an objects script
>>>> get sMyArray
>>>> ...
>>>> end someHandler
>>>> 
>>>> Anyone know?
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> 



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu Dec 14 19:33:15 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2023 00:33:15 +0000
Subject: Which is faster...
In-Reply-To: <3B75B569-02F5-4B34-B45C-98A674F39669@starfirelighting.com>
References: <719ea94e-6473-4ce2-a992-8bc371c8c446@researchware.com>
 <C5D56BA7-22A0-4D4C-A33D-6533F511ADF8@iotecdigital.com>
 <204ed529-064d-4ad0-a693-fee00f02fe94@researchware.com>
 <3B75B569-02F5-4B34-B45C-98A674F39669@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <97739B91-D628-4173-BC8D-F8D2529F31B3@iotecdigital.com>

That is not exactly the test he was looking for. He wants to compare retrieving an array from a script local variable vs. getting a property of an object like a stack, that contains the same array. At least I think that is the question. 

Now I’d like to discuss virtual properties. It takes the form: 

Local lValueA

setProp myVirtualProperty, pValueA
   Put pValueA into lValueA
End setProp

The reason this is really handy is because if pValueA is an array, you can then use the form: 

getProp myVirtualProperty [pKey]
   If pKey is not empty then 
      Return lValueA [pKey]
   Else
      Return tValueA
End getProp

In other words, you can get elements of the array without getting the entire array itself i.e.:

Put the myVirtualProperty [“companyname”] of myLivecodeObject into tCompanyName

I use this quite extensively. I have a single card which contains all the currently queried database data for caching purposes, along with the currently selected indexes for each datagrid, and the currently selected primary keys. I call the getProp and setProp handlers maingriddata. So I can:

Get the maingriddata [“hilitedkeys”] of tMainCard
Get the maingriddata [“hilitedindexes”] of tMainCard
Get the maingriddata [“customers”]
Put the queriedCustomersA into tMainGridDataA
Set the maingriddata to tMainGridDataA

And so forth. Any kind of logic can be used in the getProp and setProp handlers. 

Bob S

> On Dec 14, 2023, at 2:25 PM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Anything to distract me from my day job.
> 
> An array with 100,000 elements and a variable with 100,00 lines take the same time to place into a field.
> 
> The only time that took a while was building them. Each took 10 milliseconds.
> 
> Craig
> 
>> On Dec 14, 2023, at 4:55 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Bob,
>> 
>> Thank you. I could script a timing test but sometime just asking the list or forums is easier. You asnwered well before I would have had the time to write a basic test script. Thanks!
>> 
>> 
>> On 12/14/2023 4:45 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
>>> I think the confusion comes from thinking so much of a stack as an object that has substance, when really all the properties are places in memory just like a memory variable is. I asked this some years back and the answer I got was that there is no appreciable difference.
>>> 
>>> One could always devise a test though…
>>> 
>>> Bob S
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Dec 14, 2023, at 1:22 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Which is faster or more efficient (from an engine performance perspective)?
>>> 
>>> To retrieve an array from a property?
>>> As in:
>>> command someHandler -- in an objects script
>>>  get the cMyArray from me -- cMyArray is some multi-dimensional array
>>>  ...
>>> end someHandler
>>> 
>>> OR
>>> 
>>> To retrieve an array from a script local variable?
>>> As in:
>>> local sMyArray -- script local variable in some objects script
>>> 
>>> command someHandler -- in an objects script
>>>  get sMyArray
>>>  ...
>>> end someHandler
>>> 
>>> Anyone know?
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From craig at starfirelighting.com  Fri Dec 15 09:28:47 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2023 09:28:47 -0500
Subject: Which is faster...
In-Reply-To: <97739B91-D628-4173-BC8D-F8D2529F31B3@iotecdigital.com>
References: <719ea94e-6473-4ce2-a992-8bc371c8c446@researchware.com>
 <C5D56BA7-22A0-4D4C-A33D-6533F511ADF8@iotecdigital.com>
 <204ed529-064d-4ad0-a693-fee00f02fe94@researchware.com>
 <3B75B569-02F5-4B34-B45C-98A674F39669@starfirelighting.com>
 <97739B91-D628-4173-BC8D-F8D2529F31B3@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <173CC9FA-DEF0-401A-AAB2-06E100810286@starfirelighting.com>

OK, I see what you mean.

I set a custom property of the card to the array I used earlier. It takes almost no time at all to put the contents of that property into a variable. It is not relevant whether it is a script local variable or not.

Bottom line, I do not think it makes any difference whether one uses a custom property or a variable to hold data in terms of the speed in which that data is retrieved.

Craig

> On Dec 14, 2023, at 7:33 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> That is not exactly the test he was looking for. He wants to compare retrieving an array from a script local variable vs. getting a property of an object like a stack, that contains the same array. At least I think that is the question. 
> 
> Now I’d like to discuss virtual properties. It takes the form: 
> 
> Local lValueA
> 
> setProp myVirtualProperty, pValueA
>   Put pValueA into lValueA
> End setProp
> 
> The reason this is really handy is because if pValueA is an array, you can then use the form: 
> 
> getProp myVirtualProperty [pKey]
>   If pKey is not empty then 
>      Return lValueA [pKey]
>   Else
>      Return tValueA
> End getProp
> 
> In other words, you can get elements of the array without getting the entire array itself i.e.:
> 
> Put the myVirtualProperty [“companyname”] of myLivecodeObject into tCompanyName
> 
> I use this quite extensively. I have a single card which contains all the currently queried database data for caching purposes, along with the currently selected indexes for each datagrid, and the currently selected primary keys. I call the getProp and setProp handlers maingriddata. So I can:
> 
> Get the maingriddata [“hilitedkeys”] of tMainCard
> Get the maingriddata [“hilitedindexes”] of tMainCard
> Get the maingriddata [“customers”]
> Put the queriedCustomersA into tMainGridDataA
> Set the maingriddata to tMainGridDataA
> 
> And so forth. Any kind of logic can be used in the getProp and setProp handlers. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
>> On Dec 14, 2023, at 2:25 PM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Anything to distract me from my day job.
>> 
>> An array with 100,000 elements and a variable with 100,00 lines take the same time to place into a field.
>> 
>> The only time that took a while was building them. Each took 10 milliseconds.
>> 
>> Craig
>> 
>>> On Dec 14, 2023, at 4:55 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Bob,
>>> 
>>> Thank you. I could script a timing test but sometime just asking the list or forums is easier. You asnwered well before I would have had the time to write a basic test script. Thanks!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 12/14/2023 4:45 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> I think the confusion comes from thinking so much of a stack as an object that has substance, when really all the properties are places in memory just like a memory variable is. I asked this some years back and the answer I got was that there is no appreciable difference.
>>>> 
>>>> One could always devise a test though…
>>>> 
>>>> Bob S
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Dec 14, 2023, at 1:22 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Which is faster or more efficient (from an engine performance perspective)?
>>>> 
>>>> To retrieve an array from a property?
>>>> As in:
>>>> command someHandler -- in an objects script
>>>> get the cMyArray from me -- cMyArray is some multi-dimensional array
>>>> ...
>>>> end someHandler
>>>> 
>>>> OR
>>>> 
>>>> To retrieve an array from a script local variable?
>>>> As in:
>>>> local sMyArray -- script local variable in some objects script
>>>> 
>>>> command someHandler -- in an objects script
>>>> get sMyArray
>>>> ...
>>>> end someHandler
>>>> 
>>>> Anyone know?
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From mark at livecode.com  Fri Dec 15 10:00:06 2023
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2023 15:00:06 +0000
Subject: Which is faster...
In-Reply-To: <719ea94e-6473-4ce2-a992-8bc371c8c446@researchware.com>
References: <719ea94e-6473-4ce2-a992-8bc371c8c446@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <38212f935bbe92a232d82be36e50a603@livecode.com>

On 2023-12-14 21:22, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
> Which is faster or more efficient (from an engine performance 
> perspective)?
> 
> To retrieve an array from a property?
> As in:
> command someHandler -- in an objects script
>   get the cMyArray from me -- cMyArray is some multi-dimensional array
>   ...
> end someHandler
> 
> OR
> 
> To retrieve an array from a script local variable?
> As in:
> local sMyArray -- script local variable in some objects script
> 
> command someHandler -- in an objects script
>   get sMyArray
>   ...
> end someHandler
> 
> Anyone know?

Fetching a value directly from a variable will always be faster than any 
other method - as it essentially reduces to fetching or storing a value 
from a (integer indexed) table.

In contrast, fetching a custom property will require a message send 
unless lock messages is set, and then an array lookup (to actually get 
the property's value).

Custom property sets are stored using the same data structure internally 
as livecode arrays so getting `the cMyArray of me` eventually reduces to 
the same as objectsCurrentPropertySet["cMyArray"] - the latter lookup is 
more work than just fetching a value from an internal table.

UPSHOT:

Fetching a value directly from a variable is a constant time operation.

If lock messages is false, then the time it takes to fetch a custom 
property value will be somewhat proportional to the length of the 
message path from the point of view of the object you are accessing - 
i.e. how many frontscripts, backscripts, stacks in use, and parent 
objects/behaviors the object has.

If lock messages is true, then the time it takes to fetch a custom 
property value will be pretty much the same as doing an LC array key 
lookup.

Now whether or not this actually matters in any one case will largely 
depend on how often such access is being done - if its a few times in 
the context of UI-related code then it probably won't be appreciable; 
if, however, you are fetching a custom property 100000's of times in a 
tight loop and the rest of the loop is only doing small amounts of work, 
you'll definitely notice a difference.

SIMPLE BENCHMARK:

```

on mouseUp
local sMyArray

on mouseUp
    set the cMyArray of me to [ 1, 2, 3 ]
    put empty

    local tTime
    put the milliseconds into tTime
    repeat 1000000 times
       get the cMyArray of me
    end repeat
    put "CUSTOM PROP:" && the milliseconds - tTime & return after msg

    put the milliseconds into tTime
    lock messages
    repeat 1000000 times
       get the cMyArray of me
    end repeat
    unlock messages
    put "CUSTOM PROP (LOCKED OUTSIDE):" && the milliseconds - tTime & 
return after msg

    put the milliseconds into tTime
    repeat 1000000 times
       lock messages
       get the cMyArray of me
       unlock messages
    end repeat
    put "CUSTOM PROP (LOCKED INSIDE):" && the milliseconds - tTime & 
return after msg

    local tMyProps
    put [ 1, 2, 3 ] into tMyProps["cMyArray"]
    put the milliseconds into tTime
    repeat 1000000 times
       get sMyArray["cMyArray"]
    end repeat
    put "ARRAY ELEMENT:" && the milliseconds - tTime & return after msg

    put the milliseconds into tTime
    lock messages
    repeat 1000000 times
       get sMyArray
    end repeat
    unlock messages
    put "SCRIPT LOCAL:" && the milliseconds - tTime & return after msg
end mouseUp
end mouseUp
```

RESULTS (1 million iterations):

CUSTOM PROP: 2006
CUSTOM PROP (LOCKED OUTSIDE): 116
CUSTOM PROP (LOCKED INSIDE): 125
ARRAY ELEMENT: 80
SCRIPT LOCAL: 38

ANALYSIS:

The above results are run in the IDE which is important to mention 
because the message path in the IDE is typically longer than that in 
standalones (as the all extension libraries are loaded, and the IDE 
inserts its own front/back/stacks into the message path).

Accessing custom properties with messages locked is nearly 10x faster 
than without (again that multiplier will be vary with the length of the 
message path).

Using lock/unlock messages for every custom property access has a (quite 
negligible) 10% overhead - and the message path overhead (in the IDE) is 
about 40% of the total (the array element fetch will be the rest).

Accessing a script local is
   - about 50x faster than accessing a custom property when messages are 
sent
   - about 3x faster than accessing a custom property when messages are 
not sent
   - about 2x faster than accessing an array element

Just to reiterate - these figures are for 1,000,000 accesses done in a 
tight loop (in the IDE). If you do it for (say) 1000 iterations then the 
differences are within the margin of error of measuring a millisecond.

Overall, my suggestion would be probably to do a combination of both - 
if you are only reading from a custom property in a given loop, but are 
doing so multiple times for the same property (and the loop actually has 
a very high number of iterations!) then fetch into a local variable 
before the loop and then use that value (the same, to be fair, is true 
of calling functions which return fixed values and accessing array 
elements - especially ones on paths longer than one).

Hope this helps,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things


From craig at starfirelighting.com  Fri Dec 15 10:35:00 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2023 10:35:00 -0500
Subject: Which is faster...
In-Reply-To: <38212f935bbe92a232d82be36e50a603@livecode.com>
References: <719ea94e-6473-4ce2-a992-8bc371c8c446@researchware.com>
 <38212f935bbe92a232d82be36e50a603@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <2F785484-0752-4ED8-BA6C-631D3C4489E2@starfirelighting.com>

This is why LCMark gets the big bucks.

Craig

> On Dec 15, 2023, at 10:00 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> On 2023-12-14 21:22, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
>> Which is faster or more efficient (from an engine performance perspective)?
>> To retrieve an array from a property?
>> As in:
>> command someHandler -- in an objects script
>>   get the cMyArray from me -- cMyArray is some multi-dimensional array
>>   ...
>> end someHandler
>> OR
>> To retrieve an array from a script local variable?
>> As in:
>> local sMyArray -- script local variable in some objects script
>> command someHandler -- in an objects script
>>   get sMyArray
>>   ...
>> end someHandler
>> Anyone know?
> 
> Fetching a value directly from a variable will always be faster than any other method - as it essentially reduces to fetching or storing a value from a (integer indexed) table.
> 
> In contrast, fetching a custom property will require a message send unless lock messages is set, and then an array lookup (to actually get the property's value).
> 
> Custom property sets are stored using the same data structure internally as livecode arrays so getting `the cMyArray of me` eventually reduces to the same as objectsCurrentPropertySet["cMyArray"] - the latter lookup is more work than just fetching a value from an internal table.
> 
> UPSHOT:
> 
> Fetching a value directly from a variable is a constant time operation.
> 
> If lock messages is false, then the time it takes to fetch a custom property value will be somewhat proportional to the length of the message path from the point of view of the object you are accessing - i.e. how many frontscripts, backscripts, stacks in use, and parent objects/behaviors the object has.
> 
> If lock messages is true, then the time it takes to fetch a custom property value will be pretty much the same as doing an LC array key lookup.
> 
> Now whether or not this actually matters in any one case will largely depend on how often such access is being done - if its a few times in the context of UI-related code then it probably won't be appreciable; if, however, you are fetching a custom property 100000's of times in a tight loop and the rest of the loop is only doing small amounts of work, you'll definitely notice a difference.
> 
> SIMPLE BENCHMARK:
> 
> ```
> 
> on mouseUp
> local sMyArray
> 
> on mouseUp
>   set the cMyArray of me to [ 1, 2, 3 ]
>   put empty
> 
>   local tTime
>   put the milliseconds into tTime
>   repeat 1000000 times
>      get the cMyArray of me
>   end repeat
>   put "CUSTOM PROP:" && the milliseconds - tTime & return after msg
> 
>   put the milliseconds into tTime
>   lock messages
>   repeat 1000000 times
>      get the cMyArray of me
>   end repeat
>   unlock messages
>   put "CUSTOM PROP (LOCKED OUTSIDE):" && the milliseconds - tTime & return after msg
> 
>   put the milliseconds into tTime
>   repeat 1000000 times
>      lock messages
>      get the cMyArray of me
>      unlock messages
>   end repeat
>   put "CUSTOM PROP (LOCKED INSIDE):" && the milliseconds - tTime & return after msg
> 
>   local tMyProps
>   put [ 1, 2, 3 ] into tMyProps["cMyArray"]
>   put the milliseconds into tTime
>   repeat 1000000 times
>      get sMyArray["cMyArray"]
>   end repeat
>   put "ARRAY ELEMENT:" && the milliseconds - tTime & return after msg
> 
>   put the milliseconds into tTime
>   lock messages
>   repeat 1000000 times
>      get sMyArray
>   end repeat
>   unlock messages
>   put "SCRIPT LOCAL:" && the milliseconds - tTime & return after msg
> end mouseUp
> end mouseUp
> ```
> 
> RESULTS (1 million iterations):
> 
> CUSTOM PROP: 2006
> CUSTOM PROP (LOCKED OUTSIDE): 116
> CUSTOM PROP (LOCKED INSIDE): 125
> ARRAY ELEMENT: 80
> SCRIPT LOCAL: 38
> 
> ANALYSIS:
> 
> The above results are run in the IDE which is important to mention because the message path in the IDE is typically longer than that in standalones (as the all extension libraries are loaded, and the IDE inserts its own front/back/stacks into the message path).
> 
> Accessing custom properties with messages locked is nearly 10x faster than without (again that multiplier will be vary with the length of the message path).
> 
> Using lock/unlock messages for every custom property access has a (quite negligible) 10% overhead - and the message path overhead (in the IDE) is about 40% of the total (the array element fetch will be the rest).
> 
> Accessing a script local is
>  - about 50x faster than accessing a custom property when messages are sent
>  - about 3x faster than accessing a custom property when messages are not sent
>  - about 2x faster than accessing an array element
> 
> Just to reiterate - these figures are for 1,000,000 accesses done in a tight loop (in the IDE). If you do it for (say) 1000 iterations then the differences are within the margin of error of measuring a millisecond.
> 
> Overall, my suggestion would be probably to do a combination of both - if you are only reading from a custom property in a given loop, but are doing so multiple times for the same property (and the loop actually has a very high number of iterations!) then fetch into a local variable before the loop and then use that value (the same, to be fair, is true of calling functions which return fixed values and accessing array elements - especially ones on paths longer than one).
> 
> Hope this helps,
> 
> Mark.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Build Amazing Things
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From paul at researchware.com  Fri Dec 15 10:53:42 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2023 10:53:42 -0500
Subject: Which is faster...
In-Reply-To: <38212f935bbe92a232d82be36e50a603@livecode.com>
References: <719ea94e-6473-4ce2-a992-8bc371c8c446@researchware.com>
 <38212f935bbe92a232d82be36e50a603@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <f1634811-971b-4c16-b380-422e439eda1b@researchware.com>

And that is THE DEFINITIVE answer!

Wow! Thank you.

On 12/15/2023 10:00 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:
> On 2023-12-14 21:22, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
>> Which is faster or more efficient (from an engine performance 
>> perspective)?
>>
>> To retrieve an array from a property?
>> As in:
>> command someHandler -- in an objects script
>>   get the cMyArray from me -- cMyArray is some multi-dimensional array
>>   ...
>> end someHandler
>>
>> OR
>>
>> To retrieve an array from a script local variable?
>> As in:
>> local sMyArray -- script local variable in some objects script
>>
>> command someHandler -- in an objects script
>>   get sMyArray
>>   ...
>> end someHandler
>>
>> Anyone know?
>
> Fetching a value directly from a variable will always be faster than 
> any other method - as it essentially reduces to fetching or storing a 
> value from a (integer indexed) table.
>
> In contrast, fetching a custom property will require a message send 
> unless lock messages is set, and then an array lookup (to actually get 
> the property's value).
>
> Custom property sets are stored using the same data structure 
> internally as livecode arrays so getting `the cMyArray of me` 
> eventually reduces to the same as 
> objectsCurrentPropertySet["cMyArray"] - the latter lookup is more work 
> than just fetching a value from an internal table.
>
> UPSHOT:
>
> Fetching a value directly from a variable is a constant time operation.
>
> If lock messages is false, then the time it takes to fetch a custom 
> property value will be somewhat proportional to the length of the 
> message path from the point of view of the object you are accessing - 
> i.e. how many frontscripts, backscripts, stacks in use, and parent 
> objects/behaviors the object has.
>
> If lock messages is true, then the time it takes to fetch a custom 
> property value will be pretty much the same as doing an LC array key 
> lookup.
>
> Now whether or not this actually matters in any one case will largely 
> depend on how often such access is being done - if its a few times in 
> the context of UI-related code then it probably won't be appreciable; 
> if, however, you are fetching a custom property 100000's of times in a 
> tight loop and the rest of the loop is only doing small amounts of 
> work, you'll definitely notice a difference.
>
> SIMPLE BENCHMARK:
>
> ```
>
> on mouseUp
> local sMyArray
>
> on mouseUp
>    set the cMyArray of me to [ 1, 2, 3 ]
>    put empty
>
>    local tTime
>    put the milliseconds into tTime
>    repeat 1000000 times
>       get the cMyArray of me
>    end repeat
>    put "CUSTOM PROP:" && the milliseconds - tTime & return after msg
>
>    put the milliseconds into tTime
>    lock messages
>    repeat 1000000 times
>       get the cMyArray of me
>    end repeat
>    unlock messages
>    put "CUSTOM PROP (LOCKED OUTSIDE):" && the milliseconds - tTime & 
> return after msg
>
>    put the milliseconds into tTime
>    repeat 1000000 times
>       lock messages
>       get the cMyArray of me
>       unlock messages
>    end repeat
>    put "CUSTOM PROP (LOCKED INSIDE):" && the milliseconds - tTime & 
> return after msg
>
>    local tMyProps
>    put [ 1, 2, 3 ] into tMyProps["cMyArray"]
>    put the milliseconds into tTime
>    repeat 1000000 times
>       get sMyArray["cMyArray"]
>    end repeat
>    put "ARRAY ELEMENT:" && the milliseconds - tTime & return after msg
>
>    put the milliseconds into tTime
>    lock messages
>    repeat 1000000 times
>       get sMyArray
>    end repeat
>    unlock messages
>    put "SCRIPT LOCAL:" && the milliseconds - tTime & return after msg
> end mouseUp
> end mouseUp
> ```
>
> RESULTS (1 million iterations):
>
> CUSTOM PROP: 2006
> CUSTOM PROP (LOCKED OUTSIDE): 116
> CUSTOM PROP (LOCKED INSIDE): 125
> ARRAY ELEMENT: 80
> SCRIPT LOCAL: 38
>
> ANALYSIS:
>
> The above results are run in the IDE which is important to mention 
> because the message path in the IDE is typically longer than that in 
> standalones (as the all extension libraries are loaded, and the IDE 
> inserts its own front/back/stacks into the message path).
>
> Accessing custom properties with messages locked is nearly 10x faster 
> than without (again that multiplier will be vary with the length of 
> the message path).
>
> Using lock/unlock messages for every custom property access has a 
> (quite negligible) 10% overhead - and the message path overhead (in 
> the IDE) is about 40% of the total (the array element fetch will be 
> the rest).
>
> Accessing a script local is
>   - about 50x faster than accessing a custom property when messages 
> are sent
>   - about 3x faster than accessing a custom property when messages are 
> not sent
>   - about 2x faster than accessing an array element
>
> Just to reiterate - these figures are for 1,000,000 accesses done in a 
> tight loop (in the IDE). If you do it for (say) 1000 iterations then 
> the differences are within the margin of error of measuring a 
> millisecond.
>
> Overall, my suggestion would be probably to do a combination of both - 
> if you are only reading from a custom property in a given loop, but 
> are doing so multiple times for the same property (and the loop 
> actually has a very high number of iterations!) then fetch into a 
> local variable before the loop and then use that value (the same, to 
> be fair, is true of calling functions which return fixed values and 
> accessing array elements - especially ones on paths longer than one).
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Mark.
>



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Dec 15 11:03:55 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2023 16:03:55 +0000
Subject: Which is faster...
In-Reply-To: <38212f935bbe92a232d82be36e50a603@livecode.com>
References: <719ea94e-6473-4ce2-a992-8bc371c8c446@researchware.com>
 <38212f935bbe92a232d82be36e50a603@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <9094107A-B464-42BC-8062-09F91E73309D@iotecdigital.com>

Good point. I always put data I intend to work on in a local variable anyway so it becomes easier to debug. As far as 1,000,000 iterations, I cannot imagine what anyone developing in Livecode who would want to do that inline with any other process. But then I failed 6th grade math, sooo….. there’s that.

Bob S


<snip>

On Dec 15, 2023, at 7:00 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

Overall, my suggestion would be probably to do a combination of both - if you are only reading from a custom property in a given loop, but are doing so multiple times for the same property (and the loop actually has a very high number of iterations!) then fetch into a local variable before the loop and then use that value (the same, to be fair, is true of calling functions which return fixed values and accessing array elements - especially ones on paths longer than one).

Hope this helps,

Mark.

--
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com<mailto:mark at livecode.com> ~ http://www.livecode.com/


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Dec 15 11:21:24 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2023 16:21:24 +0000
Subject: Which is faster...
In-Reply-To: <38212f935bbe92a232d82be36e50a603@livecode.com>
References: <719ea94e-6473-4ce2-a992-8bc371c8c446@researchware.com>
 <38212f935bbe92a232d82be36e50a603@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <D3D8FEBA-DC09-424C-BFA9-45C6179993AA@iotecdigital.com>

Ah! Another mystery solved. My app runs as a standalone considerably faster that in the IDE.

Bob S


On Dec 15, 2023, at 7:00 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

The above results are run in the IDE which is important to mention because the message path in the IDE is typically longer than that in standalones (as the all extension libraries are loaded, and the IDE inserts its own front/back/stacks into the message path).


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Dec 15 11:44:25 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2023 16:44:25 +0000
Subject: addData in Datagrids
Message-ID: <CEA32E84-0E35-47CF-993F-7E4B98B66C25@iotecdigital.com>

Hi all. 

Datagrids have a command called addData which adds a line to the end of a datagrid. It returns the line number. 

Afterwards I ought to be able to do this”

...
Set the dghilitedIndex of me to tFoundIndex — this is a valid integer
Put the dgDataOfIndex [tFoundIndex] of me into tMyArrayA
…

HOWEVER…

tMyArrayA is empty! How can that be??? I quit Livecode and tested this in a new stack so it’s not any of my code doing ths. 

Bob S


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Dec 15 11:49:28 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2023 16:49:28 +0000
Subject: addData in Datagrids
In-Reply-To: <CEA32E84-0E35-47CF-993F-7E4B98B66C25@iotecdigital.com>
References: <CEA32E84-0E35-47CF-993F-7E4B98B66C25@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <87F8772E-3D95-49EB-A1DF-C14F8A4BFA77@iotecdigital.com>

NVM. Apparently I have to send an array as an argument. Odd, it seems like it ought to create a new record with its own array structure. 

Bob S


> On Dec 15, 2023, at 8:44 AM, Bob Sneidar <bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi all. 
> 
> Datagrids have a command called addData which adds a line to the end of a datagrid. It returns the line number. 
> 
> Afterwards I ought to be able to do this”
> 
> ...
> Set the dghilitedIndex of me to tFoundIndex — this is a valid integer
> Put the dgDataOfIndex [tFoundIndex] of me into tMyArrayA
> …
> 
> HOWEVER…
> 
> tMyArrayA is empty! How can that be??? I quit Livecode and tested this in a new stack so it’s not any of my code doing ths. 
> 
> Bob S
> 


From tom at makeshyft.com  Fri Dec 15 12:17:16 2023
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2023 12:17:16 -0500
Subject: unable to unfold arrays in debugger?
Message-ID: <CAPzQJL+BWTSgARZsP2=6pmNECpf9wdqSWyHFuEgJTde7KgmV-A@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Peeps,

I'm having a strange experience where while debugging, I click on the arrow
to unfold array variables in the debugger, and nothing happens.
Once the debugger gets into this state, I must leave the card and come back.
it begins as soon as the debugger starts, but remains after the debugger
has stopped.  Now I have to leave the card/
When I come back to the card, the array variables unfold as expected until
the debugger starts again.
It seems to happen only on 1 particular card and no other.

Sigh.
How can I figure this out?
Has anyone ever experienced this?

Thanks,

Tom

From tom at makeshyft.com  Fri Dec 15 12:31:41 2023
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2023 12:31:41 -0500
Subject: unable to unfold arrays in debugger?
In-Reply-To: <CAPzQJL+BWTSgARZsP2=6pmNECpf9wdqSWyHFuEgJTde7KgmV-A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPzQJL+BWTSgARZsP2=6pmNECpf9wdqSWyHFuEgJTde7KgmV-A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPzQJL+NUnyMzXQaEqNCVYOLR00vvGRTwY_drO=kNVQLpCnkBA@mail.gmail.com>

Hmmm, I just discovered that while this state is occurring, unfolding
Project Browser groups also does not work.

On Fri, Dec 15, 2023 at 12:17 PM Tom Glod <tom at makeshyft.com> wrote:

> Hey Peeps,
>
> I'm having a strange experience where while debugging, I click on the
> arrow to unfold array variables in the debugger, and nothing happens.
> Once the debugger gets into this state, I must leave the card and come
> back.
> it begins as soon as the debugger starts, but remains after the debugger
> has stopped.  Now I have to leave the card/
> When I come back to the card, the array variables unfold as expected until
> the debugger starts again.
> It seems to happen only on 1 particular card and no other.
>
> Sigh.
> How can I figure this out?
> Has anyone ever experienced this?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tom
>

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Dec 15 13:18:52 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2023 12:18:52 -0600
Subject: Which is faster...
In-Reply-To: <38212f935bbe92a232d82be36e50a603@livecode.com>
References: <719ea94e-6473-4ce2-a992-8bc371c8c446@researchware.com>
 <38212f935bbe92a232d82be36e50a603@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <18c6eb3e2e0.2814.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

I asked this back in the early MetaCard days and received a one word 
answer: "variables". It's nice to know the reason behind it, and that it 
hasn't changed.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On December 15, 2023 9:01:34 AM Mark Waddingham via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> Fetching a value directly from a variable will always be faster than any
> other method - as it essentially reduces to fetching or storing a value
> from a (integer indexed) table.




From klaus at major-k.de  Sat Dec 16 09:51:33 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2023 15:51:33 +0100
Subject: tsneterr: (3) URL using bad/illegal format or missing URL
Message-ID: <CF01FEB1-782D-4316-9328-FDF363428641@major-k.de>

Hi friends,

I am trying to upload a (not so long) urlencoded text list
to my server, but get the tsNet error as in the subject.

In the form of:
...
## Remove spaces etc.
put clean_name(tSetlist) into tDateiname
put "whatever" & CR & urlencode(fld "setlist") into tInhalt
put "https://www.MYSERVER.de/setlists.lc?name=" & tDateiname & "&setlist=" & tInhalt into tUrl
...

The LC server script:
-------------------------------------
<?lc
	put $_GET["name"] into tName
	put $_GET["setlist"] into tSetList
	put "OK" into tAntwort
	try
		put tSetList into url("file:" & tName)
	catch tProblem
		put tProblem into tAntwort
	end try
	put tAntwort	
?>
----------------------------------------

The error comes from LC and NOT from the server, tAnwort = EMPTY!

The URL is definitively correct!
Is the urlencoded string in tInhalt too long for a parameter?
Or is a CR in that parameter not a good idea?

Any hints very appreciated, thanks in advance.


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From klaus at major-k.de  Sat Dec 16 10:50:49 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2023 16:50:49 +0100
Subject: tsneterr: (3) URL using bad/illegal format or missing URL
In-Reply-To: <CF01FEB1-782D-4316-9328-FDF363428641@major-k.de>
References: <CF01FEB1-782D-4316-9328-FDF363428641@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <80CAECD4-AE24-4E0F-9424-9331E52B3BED@major-k.de>

Followup:
I checked fo "illegal" character like @ ' etc., still no joy.
This has been working two weeks ago!

> Am 16.12.2023 um 15:51 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi friends,
> 
> I am trying to upload a (not so long) urlencoded text list
> to my server, but get the tsNet error as in the subject.
> 
> In the form of:
> ...
> ## Remove spaces etc.
> put clean_name(tSetlist) into tDateiname
> put "whatever" & CR & urlencode(fld "setlist") into tInhalt
> put "https://www.MYSERVER.de/setlists.lc?name=" & tDateiname & "&setlist=" & tInhalt into tUrl
> ...
> 
> The LC server script:
> -------------------------------------
> <?lc
> 	put $_GET["name"] into tName
> 	put $_GET["setlist"] into tSetList
> 	put "OK" into tAntwort
> 	try
> 		put tSetList into url("file:" & tName)
> 	catch tProblem
> 		put tProblem into tAntwort
> 	end try
> 	put tAntwort	
> ?>
> ----------------------------------------
> 
> The error comes from LC and NOT from the server, tAnwort = EMPTY!
> 
> The URL is definitively correct!
> Is the urlencoded string in tInhalt too long for a parameter?
> Or is a CR in that parameter not a good idea?
> 
> Any hints very appreciated, thanks in advance.
> 
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From klaus at major-k.de  Sat Dec 16 11:37:29 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2023 17:37:29 +0100
Subject: tsneterr: (3) URL using bad/illegal format or missing URL
In-Reply-To: <80CAECD4-AE24-4E0F-9424-9331E52B3BED@major-k.de>
References: <CF01FEB1-782D-4316-9328-FDF363428641@major-k.de>
 <80CAECD4-AE24-4E0F-9424-9331E52B3BED@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <AF2A8EEB-A20C-44C7-8739-C581E955E3B1@major-k.de>

Should I use a different format to pass the CR delimited list to the LC script?
If yes, which one?

> Am 16.12.2023 um 16:50 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Followup:
> I checked fo "illegal" character like @ ' etc., still no joy.
> This has been working two weeks ago!
> 
>> Am 16.12.2023 um 15:51 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Hi friends,
>> 
>> I am trying to upload a (not so long) urlencoded text list
>> to my server, but get the tsNet error as in the subject.
>> 
>> In the form of:
>> ...
>> ## Remove spaces etc.
>> put clean_name(tSetlist) into tDateiname
>> put "whatever" & CR & urlencode(fld "setlist") into tInhalt
>> put "https://www.MYSERVER.de/setlists.lc?name=" & tDateiname & "&setlist=" & tInhalt into tUrl
>> ...
>> 
>> The LC server script:
>> -------------------------------------
>> <?lc
>> 	put $_GET["name"] into tName
>> 	put $_GET["setlist"] into tSetList
>> 	put "OK" into tAntwort
>> 	try
>> 		put tSetList into url("file:" & tName)
>> 	catch tProblem
>> 		put tProblem into tAntwort
>> 	end try
>> 	put tAntwort	
>> ?>
>> ----------------------------------------
>> 
>> The error comes from LC and NOT from the server, tAnwort = EMPTY!
>> 
>> The URL is definitively correct!
>> Is the urlencoded string in tInhalt too long for a parameter?
>> Or is a CR in that parameter not a good idea?
>> 
>> Any hints very appreciated, thanks in advance.
>> 
>> 
>> Best
>> 
>> Klaus
>> --
>> Klaus Major
>> https://www.major-k.de
>> https://www.major-k.de/bass
>> klaus at major-k.de
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com  Sat Dec 16 13:43:02 2023
From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal)
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2023 19:43:02 +0100
Subject: Should I upgrade to Xcode 15.0 or 15.1?
Message-ID: <A9C3AAA8-3DDE-4697-9FA3-33868C1AB5CF@gmail.com>

Hi all,

I’ve just taken the step to MacOS Sonoma (14.2), and now intend to upgrade Xcode from 14.x to 15. 
But I'm unsure of which version to go for, as the latest LC release notes say Xcode 15.0 and LC is usually quite picky about it.
I don’t want to download and install all the gigabytes of Xcode 15.1 (which is the latest) just to discover that I really need 15.0

Actually, the release notes don’t even mention MacOS 14.2 as a valid version for iOS deployment, so an additional question is if I’ve already burnt that bridge by going Sonoma, until LC catches up…?

Please advise. :)

/Andreas

From paul at researchware.com  Sat Dec 16 13:54:53 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2023 13:54:53 -0500
Subject: Should I upgrade to Xcode 15.0 or 15.1?
In-Reply-To: <A9C3AAA8-3DDE-4697-9FA3-33868C1AB5CF@gmail.com>
References: <A9C3AAA8-3DDE-4697-9FA3-33868C1AB5CF@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43442429-7afd-4ecb-ae09-3ddb880658e2@researchware.com>

For the purposes of notarization of macOS apps, I have seen no 
difference between Xcode 15 and 15.1 under Sonoma on a macBook Air (M1 
processor)

I don't developer iOS apps though, nor do I use Xcode for anything other 
than code signing, notarization, and stapling of macOS desktop apps


On 12/16/2023 1:43 PM, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Ive just taken the step to MacOS Sonoma (14.2), and now intend to upgrade Xcode from 14.x to 15.
> But I'm unsure of which version to go for, as the latest LC release notes say Xcode 15.0 and LC is usually quite picky about it.
> I dont want to download and install all the gigabytes of Xcode 15.1 (which is the latest) just to discover that I really need 15.0
>
> Actually, the release notes dont even mention MacOS 14.2 as a valid version for iOS deployment, so an additional question is if Ive already burnt that bridge by going Sonoma, until LC catches up?
>
> Please advise. :)
>
> /Andreas
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Sat Dec 16 17:29:10 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2023 23:29:10 +0100
Subject: tsneterr: (3) URL using bad/illegal format or missing URL
In-Reply-To: <AF2A8EEB-A20C-44C7-8739-C581E955E3B1@major-k.de>
References: <CF01FEB1-782D-4316-9328-FDF363428641@major-k.de>
 <80CAECD4-AE24-4E0F-9424-9331E52B3BED@major-k.de>
 <AF2A8EEB-A20C-44C7-8739-C581E955E3B1@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <8F267754-AA33-43F3-9715-73C2B54ACC37@m-r-d.de>

Hello Klaus,

You could try to post the data as a file  to the server. There is an array $_files in Livecode server available, which handles the file uploads.

Regards,
Matthias

> Am 16.12.2023 um 17:37 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Should I use a different format to pass the CR delimited list to the LC script?
> If yes, which one?
> 
>> Am 16.12.2023 um 16:50 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Followup:
>> I checked fo "illegal" character like @ ' etc., still no joy.
>> This has been working two weeks ago!
>> 
>>> Am 16.12.2023 um 15:51 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> Hi friends,
>>> 
>>> I am trying to upload a (not so long) urlencoded text list
>>> to my server, but get the tsNet error as in the subject.
>>> 
>>> In the form of:
>>> ...
>>> ## Remove spaces etc.
>>> put clean_name(tSetlist) into tDateiname
>>> put "whatever" & CR & urlencode(fld "setlist") into tInhalt
>>> put "https://www.MYSERVER.de/setlists.lc?name=" & tDateiname & "&setlist=" & tInhalt into tUrl
>>> ...
>>> 
>>> The LC server script:
>>> -------------------------------------
>>> <?lc
>>> 	put $_GET["name"] into tName
>>> 	put $_GET["setlist"] into tSetList
>>> 	put "OK" into tAntwort
>>> 	try
>>> 		put tSetList into url("file:" & tName)
>>> 	catch tProblem
>>> 		put tProblem into tAntwort
>>> 	end try
>>> 	put tAntwort	
>>> ?>
>>> ----------------------------------------
>>> 
>>> The error comes from LC and NOT from the server, tAnwort = EMPTY!
>>> 
>>> The URL is definitively correct!
>>> Is the urlencoded string in tInhalt too long for a parameter?
>>> Or is a CR in that parameter not a good idea?
>>> 
>>> Any hints very appreciated, thanks in advance.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Best
>>> 
>>> Klaus
>>> --
>>> Klaus Major
>>> https://www.major-k.de
>>> https://www.major-k.de/bass
>>> klaus at major-k.de
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> --
>> Klaus Major
>> https://www.major-k.de
>> https://www.major-k.de/bass
>> klaus at major-k.de
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From klaus at major-k.de  Sun Dec 17 04:18:03 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2023 10:18:03 +0100
Subject: tsneterr: (3) URL using bad/illegal format or missing URL
In-Reply-To: <8F267754-AA33-43F3-9715-73C2B54ACC37@m-r-d.de>
References: <CF01FEB1-782D-4316-9328-FDF363428641@major-k.de>
 <80CAECD4-AE24-4E0F-9424-9331E52B3BED@major-k.de>
 <AF2A8EEB-A20C-44C7-8739-C581E955E3B1@major-k.de>
 <8F267754-AA33-43F3-9715-73C2B54ACC37@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <E2D774CE-00B7-439D-BD8A-8BE88BEC168D@major-k.de>

Hi Matthias,

> Am 16.12.2023 um 23:29 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hello Klaus,
> 
> You could try to post the data as a file  to the server. There is an array $_files in Livecode server available, which handles the file uploads.

ah, sounds promising, thank you! :-)
I wanted to post the list directly from an LC field, but can surely store its content to a temp file.

But how is the syntax in my case?
...
put clean_name(tSetlist) into tDateiname 
## = filename on server

## put "whatever" & CR & urlencode(fld "setlist") into tInhalt
put "https://www.MYSERVER.de/setlists.lc?name=" & tDateiname & "&setlist=" & url("file:" & path to file") into tURL #?
## Nothing in the dictionary about this
...

> Regards,
> Matthias

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From alex at tweedly.net  Sun Dec 17 06:22:30 2023
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2023 11:22:30 +0000
Subject: tsneterr: (3) URL using bad/illegal format or missing URL
In-Reply-To: <CF01FEB1-782D-4316-9328-FDF363428641@major-k.de>
References: <CF01FEB1-782D-4316-9328-FDF363428641@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <537b8d15-8913-4d8a-9f88-707cf0eb01fa@tweedly.net>


On 16/12/2023 14:51, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi friends,
>
> I am trying to upload a (not so long) urlencoded text list
> to my server, but get the tsNet error as in the subject.
>
> In the form of:
> ...
> ## Remove spaces etc.
> put clean_name(tSetlist) into tDateiname
> put "whatever" & CR & urlencode(fld "setlist") into tInhalt
> put "https://www.MYSERVER.de/setlists.lc?name=" & tDateiname & "&setlist=" & tInhalt into tUrl
> ...
> ...
>
> The error comes from LC and NOT from the server, tAnwort = EMPTY!
>
> The URL is definitively correct!
> Is the urlencoded string in tInhalt too long for a parameter?
> Or is a CR in that parameter not a good idea?

The CR in the parameter is a bad idea.

Instead of

put "whatever" & CR & urlencode(fld "setlist") into tInhalt

would you not be better doing

put urlencode("whatever" &CR & fld "setlist") into tInhalt


(I can't reproduce the error here, so I can't be sure if this fixes it 
or not - but the CR in the url is definitely a bad idea).


Alex.




From klaus at major-k.de  Sun Dec 17 06:33:53 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2023 12:33:53 +0100
Subject: tsneterr: (3) URL using bad/illegal format or missing URL
In-Reply-To: <537b8d15-8913-4d8a-9f88-707cf0eb01fa@tweedly.net>
References: <CF01FEB1-782D-4316-9328-FDF363428641@major-k.de>
 <537b8d15-8913-4d8a-9f88-707cf0eb01fa@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <ECEE4A71-32B6-4F3D-B075-91A7B4FF520B@major-k.de>

Hi Alex,

> Am 17.12.2023 um 12:22 schrieb Alex Tweedly via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> 
> On 16/12/2023 14:51, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hi friends,
>> 
>> I am trying to upload a (not so long) urlencoded text list
>> to my server, but get the tsNet error as in the subject.
>> 
>> In the form of:
>> ...
>> ## Remove spaces etc.
>> put clean_name(tSetlist) into tDateiname
>> put "whatever" & CR & urlencode(fld "setlist") into tInhalt
>> put "https://www.MYSERVER.de/setlists.lc?name=" & tDateiname & "&setlist=" & tInhalt into tUrl
>> ...
>> ...
>> 
>> The error comes from LC and NOT from the server, tAnwort = EMPTY!
>> 
>> The URL is definitively correct!
>> Is the urlencoded string in tInhalt too long for a parameter?
>> Or is a CR in that parameter not a good idea?
> 
> The CR in the parameter is a bad idea.
> 
> Instead of
> put "whatever" & CR & urlencode(fld "setlist") into tInhalt
> would you not be better doing
> put urlencode("whatever" &CR & fld "setlist") into tInhalt
> (I can't reproduce the error here, so I can't be sure if this fixes it or not - but the CR in the url is definitely a bad idea).

YES, that did the trick, thank you very much!
Have a nice sunday!

> Alex.

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Sun Dec 17 06:45:00 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2023 12:45:00 +0100
Subject: tsneterr: (3) URL using bad/illegal format or missing URL
In-Reply-To: <E2D774CE-00B7-439D-BD8A-8BE88BEC168D@major-k.de>
References: <CF01FEB1-782D-4316-9328-FDF363428641@major-k.de>
 <80CAECD4-AE24-4E0F-9424-9331E52B3BED@major-k.de>
 <AF2A8EEB-A20C-44C7-8739-C581E955E3B1@major-k.de>
 <8F267754-AA33-43F3-9715-73C2B54ACC37@m-r-d.de>
 <E2D774CE-00B7-439D-BD8A-8BE88BEC168D@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <AEA6441B-8C97-486E-A5E1-3CDED5BD5BCD@m-r-d.de>

Hello Klaus.

please see the example below. In my example i am posting a zip file with images to a livecode server script

Livecode script

on mouseup
   answer file "Select zip file..."
   if it is empty then exit to top
   put "<file>" & it into tArchive
   if libUrlMultiPartFormData(tForm,"Archive", tArchive) is not empty then
      altlog the long system time & " - error:" & it
   else
      set the httpHeaders to line 1 of tForm 
      altlog the long system time & " - Upload gestartet"
      post line 2 to -1 of tForm to url "https://MYSERVER.COM/upload_bilder.lc"
      put it into  postResult
      set the httpHeaders to empty
      
      switch postResult
         case   postResult begins with "Bildupload fehlgeschlagen" is true
         ## your script for upload error
         break
         case  postResult begins with "Bildupload okay" is true
         ## your script for successful upload
            break
    	end switch
   end if
end mouseup 


Livecode Server script

<?lc
set the errorMode to "inline"
-- check for errors
if $_Files["Archive"][error] is not empty
	then
	-- this output will be used as return value by the mouseup script
		put "Upload-Fehler"  
		
		put the long system time && "- Upload-Fehler - " & $_files["Archive"][error] &return after URL "file:uploaderror.txt"
	else
		put $_Files["Archive"][name] into tFileName
	
       -- check if the correct file was uploaded
	 -- in our case we always  upload a file with same name
	  if tFileName= "bilder_ohne_logo.zip" 
		then 
		-- this output will be used as return value by the mouseup script
			put "Bildupload okay"
			-- here comes the script for processing the uploaded file....
			-- e.g.
			put URL ("binfile:"&tFilename) into URL ("binfile:/home/xxxxxx/public_html/bilder_ohne_logo.zip")			
			exit to top
		end if
?>

I hope there is no error in my example. I simplified my original code for the above example.

In my original version the complete upload and the processing of the uploaded file is automatic w/o user interaction. 
The desktop app creates a zip file and posts that zip file to a Livecode Server script which just handles the upload and then returns a success or failure.
According to the upload script my standalone then calls another script on the server for further processing.


Regards,
Matthias


		

> Am 17.12.2023 um 10:18 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi Matthias,
> 
>> Am 16.12.2023 um 23:29 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Hello Klaus,
>> 
>> You could try to post the data as a file  to the server. There is an array $_files in Livecode server available, which handles the file uploads.
> 
> ah, sounds promising, thank you! :-)
> I wanted to post the list directly from an LC field, but can surely store its content to a temp file.
> 
> But how is the syntax in my case?
> ...
> put clean_name(tSetlist) into tDateiname 
> ## = filename on server
> 
> ## put "whatever" & CR & urlencode(fld "setlist") into tInhalt
> put "https://www.MYSERVER.de/setlists.lc?name=" & tDateiname & "&setlist=" & url("file:" & path to file") into tURL #?
> ## Nothing in the dictionary about this
> ...
> 
>> Regards,
>> Matthias
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From klaus at major-k.de  Sun Dec 17 06:49:31 2023
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2023 12:49:31 +0100
Subject: tsneterr: (3) URL using bad/illegal format or missing URL
In-Reply-To: <AEA6441B-8C97-486E-A5E1-3CDED5BD5BCD@m-r-d.de>
References: <CF01FEB1-782D-4316-9328-FDF363428641@major-k.de>
 <80CAECD4-AE24-4E0F-9424-9331E52B3BED@major-k.de>
 <AF2A8EEB-A20C-44C7-8739-C581E955E3B1@major-k.de>
 <8F267754-AA33-43F3-9715-73C2B54ACC37@m-r-d.de>
 <E2D774CE-00B7-439D-BD8A-8BE88BEC168D@major-k.de>
 <AEA6441B-8C97-486E-A5E1-3CDED5BD5BCD@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <810AA7FE-03C9-49D2-BF81-A652EDDD20D9@major-k.de>

Hi Matthias,

thank you very much!

Since Alex already spotted my problem, I will store this for future reference.

> Am 17.12.2023 um 12:45 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hello Klaus.
> 
> please see the example below. In my example i am posting a zip file with images to a livecode server script
> Livecode script
> on mouseup
>  ...
> I hope there is no error in my example. I simplified my original code for the above example.
> 
> In my original version the complete upload and the processing of the uploaded file is automatic w/o user interaction. 
> The desktop app creates a zip file and posts that zip file to a Livecode Server script which just handles the upload and then returns a success or failure.
> According to the upload script my standalone then calls another script on the server for further processing.
> 
> Regards,
> Matthias

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Sun Dec 17 10:48:22 2023
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2023 10:48:22 -0500
Subject: Should I upgrade to Xcode 15.0 or 15.1?
In-Reply-To: <43442429-7afd-4ecb-ae09-3ddb880658e2@researchware.com>
References: <A9C3AAA8-3DDE-4697-9FA3-33868C1AB5CF@gmail.com>
 <43442429-7afd-4ecb-ae09-3ddb880658e2@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycP+1W+eEX3_SQeHPoP45b3-mgtaYaNm6FTHPBjeY75g4w@mail.gmail.com>

can lc 9.6.11 use both 15 and 15.1?
i've been holding off on updating to sonoma

On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at 1:55 PM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> For the purposes of notarization of macOS apps, I have seen no
> difference between Xcode 15 and 15.1 under Sonoma on a macBook Air (M1
> processor)
>
> I don't developer iOS apps though, nor do I use Xcode for anything other
> than code signing, notarization, and stapling of macOS desktop apps
>
>
> On 12/16/2023 1:43 PM, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I’ve just taken the step to MacOS Sonoma (14.2), and now intend to
> upgrade Xcode from 14.x to 15.
> > But I'm unsure of which version to go for, as the latest LC release
> notes say Xcode 15.0 and LC is usually quite picky about it.
> > I don’t want to download and install all the gigabytes of Xcode 15.1
> (which is the latest) just to discover that I really need 15.0
> >
> > Actually, the release notes don’t even mention MacOS 14.2 as a valid
> version for iOS deployment, so an additional question is if I’ve already
> burnt that bridge by going Sonoma, until LC catches up…?
> >
> > Please advise. :)
> >
> > /Andreas
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

From heather at livecode.com  Mon Dec 18 12:11:37 2023
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2023 17:11:37 +0000
Subject: Should I upgrade to Xcode 15.0 or 15.1?
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycP+1W+eEX3_SQeHPoP45b3-mgtaYaNm6FTHPBjeY75g4w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <A9C3AAA8-3DDE-4697-9FA3-33868C1AB5CF@gmail.com>
 <43442429-7afd-4ecb-ae09-3ddb880658e2@researchware.com>
 <CADCoycP+1W+eEX3_SQeHPoP45b3-mgtaYaNm6FTHPBjeY75g4w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E663A1B3-F670-4BDA-A1C9-3088DE36AE0D@livecode.com>

Folks, you should upgrade to Xcode 15.0 not 15.1 - see this table (top FAQ):


https://livecode.com/resources/support/ask-a-question/



Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 17 Dec 2023, at 15:48, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> can lc 9.6.11 use both 15 and 15.1?
> i've been holding off on updating to sonoma
> 
> On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at 1:55 PM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> For the purposes of notarization of macOS apps, I have seen no
>> difference between Xcode 15 and 15.1 under Sonoma on a macBook Air (M1
>> processor)
>> 
>> I don't developer iOS apps though, nor do I use Xcode for anything other
>> than code signing, notarization, and stapling of macOS desktop apps
>> 
>> 
>> On 12/16/2023 1:43 PM, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> I’ve just taken the step to MacOS Sonoma (14.2), and now intend to
>> upgrade Xcode from 14.x to 15.
>>> But I'm unsure of which version to go for, as the latest LC release
>> notes say Xcode 15.0 and LC is usually quite picky about it.
>>> I don’t want to download and install all the gigabytes of Xcode 15.1
>> (which is the latest) just to discover that I really need 15.0
>>> 
>>> Actually, the release notes don’t even mention MacOS 14.2 as a valid
>> version for iOS deployment, so an additional question is if I’ve already
>> burnt that bridge by going Sonoma, until LC catches up…?
>>> 
>>> Please advise. :)
>>> 
>>> /Andreas
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>   and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From paul at researchware.com  Mon Dec 18 12:47:12 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2023 12:47:12 -0500
Subject: Should I upgrade to Xcode 15.0 or 15.1?
In-Reply-To: <E663A1B3-F670-4BDA-A1C9-3088DE36AE0D@livecode.com>
References: <A9C3AAA8-3DDE-4697-9FA3-33868C1AB5CF@gmail.com>
 <43442429-7afd-4ecb-ae09-3ddb880658e2@researchware.com>
 <CADCoycP+1W+eEX3_SQeHPoP45b3-mgtaYaNm6FTHPBjeY75g4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E663A1B3-F670-4BDA-A1C9-3088DE36AE0D@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <55ab9c7d-cd27-4d28-9cd7-57e193c3f30a@researchware.com>

FYI Heather,

The "What are the System Requirements for LiveCode? 
<https://livecode.com/resources/support/ask-a-question/#group_739>" 
table needs an update for current macOS and Windows versions.

On 12/18/2023 12:11 PM, Heather Laine via use-livecode wrote:
> Folks, you should upgrade to Xcode 15.0 not 15.1 - see this table (top FAQ):
>
>
> https://livecode.com/resources/support/ask-a-question/
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Heather
>
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
>
>
>
>> On 17 Dec 2023, at 15:48, Mike Kerner via use-livecode<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>  wrote:
>>
>> can lc 9.6.11 use both 15 and 15.1?
>> i've been holding off on updating to sonoma
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at 1:55PM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>>> For the purposes of notarization of macOS apps, I have seen no
>>> difference between Xcode 15 and 15.1 under Sonoma on a macBook Air (M1
>>> processor)
>>>
>>> I don't developer iOS apps though, nor do I use Xcode for anything other
>>> than code signing, notarization, and stapling of macOS desktop apps
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/16/2023 1:43 PM, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> Ive just taken the step to MacOS Sonoma (14.2), and now intend to
>>> upgrade Xcode from 14.x to 15.
>>>> But I'm unsure of which version to go for, as the latest LC release
>>> notes say Xcode 15.0 and LC is usually quite picky about it.
>>>> I dont want to download and install all the gigabytes of Xcode 15.1
>>> (which is the latest) just to discover that I really need 15.0
>>>> Actually, the release notes dont even mention MacOS 14.2 as a valid
>>> version for iOS deployment, so an additional question is if Ive already
>>> burnt that bridge by going Sonoma, until LC catches up?
>>>> Please advise. :)
>>>>
>>>> /Andreas
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>>
>> -- 
>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
>> On the second day, God created the oceans.
>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>>    and did a little diving.
>> And God said, "This is good."
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com  Mon Dec 18 15:43:58 2023
From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal)
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2023 21:43:58 +0100
Subject: Should I upgrade to Xcode 15.0 or 15.1?
In-Reply-To: <E663A1B3-F670-4BDA-A1C9-3088DE36AE0D@livecode.com>
References: <A9C3AAA8-3DDE-4697-9FA3-33868C1AB5CF@gmail.com>
 <43442429-7afd-4ecb-ae09-3ddb880658e2@researchware.com>
 <CADCoycP+1W+eEX3_SQeHPoP45b3-mgtaYaNm6FTHPBjeY75g4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E663A1B3-F670-4BDA-A1C9-3088DE36AE0D@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <8EDB9DC6-D53C-4209-8786-3008C71BD64A@gmail.com>

Thanks, Heather! I was just about to ask if there didn’t use to be a table available somewhere, where this stuff was sorted out. And there it was! :D

/Andreas

> 18 dec. 2023 kl. 18:11 skrev Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Folks, you should upgrade to Xcode 15.0 not 15.1 - see this table (top FAQ):
> 
> 
> https://livecode.com/resources/support/ask-a-question/
> 
> 
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On 17 Dec 2023, at 15:48, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> can lc 9.6.11 use both 15 and 15.1?
>> i've been holding off on updating to sonoma
>> 
>> On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at 1:55 PM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> For the purposes of notarization of macOS apps, I have seen no
>>> difference between Xcode 15 and 15.1 under Sonoma on a macBook Air (M1
>>> processor)
>>> 
>>> I don't developer iOS apps though, nor do I use Xcode for anything other
>>> than code signing, notarization, and stapling of macOS desktop apps
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 12/16/2023 1:43 PM, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> 
>>>> I’ve just taken the step to MacOS Sonoma (14.2), and now intend to
>>> upgrade Xcode from 14.x to 15.
>>>> But I'm unsure of which version to go for, as the latest LC release
>>> notes say Xcode 15.0 and LC is usually quite picky about it.
>>>> I don’t want to download and install all the gigabytes of Xcode 15.1
>>> (which is the latest) just to discover that I really need 15.0
>>>> 
>>>> Actually, the release notes don’t even mention MacOS 14.2 as a valid
>>> version for iOS deployment, so an additional question is if I’ve already
>>> burnt that bridge by going Sonoma, until LC catches up…?
>>>> 
>>>> Please advise. :)
>>>> 
>>>> /Andreas
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
>> On the second day, God created the oceans.
>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>>  and did a little diving.
>> And God said, "This is good."
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com  Thu Dec 21 08:41:52 2023
From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal)
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2023 14:41:52 +0100
Subject: Should I upgrade to Xcode 15.0 or 15.1?
In-Reply-To: <E663A1B3-F670-4BDA-A1C9-3088DE36AE0D@livecode.com>
References: <A9C3AAA8-3DDE-4697-9FA3-33868C1AB5CF@gmail.com>
 <43442429-7afd-4ecb-ae09-3ddb880658e2@researchware.com>
 <CADCoycP+1W+eEX3_SQeHPoP45b3-mgtaYaNm6FTHPBjeY75g4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E663A1B3-F670-4BDA-A1C9-3088DE36AE0D@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <B0783957-A8D5-42D1-8EB6-AB00891EFF3E@gmail.com>

Just for fun, and because Mermaid is my new toy, I threw together a small web stack that shows the various LC-Xcode-macOS-iOS combinations in a sankey diagram, where you can also change the order of how they are displayed.

I added some Xcode versions that are NOT compatible with LiveCode too, just as extra info (and to get more data points).

I don’t know if it adds any insights beyond what you can simply see in the table Heather linked to, but it was a suitable set of data for the sankey format, and also a proof of concept that running Mermaid code in a browser widget deployed to web works flawlessly. :)

See it here: https://wheninspace.com/LCXcode/

/Andreas



> 18 dec. 2023 kl. 18:11 skrev Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Folks, you should upgrade to Xcode 15.0 not 15.1 - see this table (top FAQ):
> 
> 
> https://livecode.com/resources/support/ask-a-question/
> 
> 
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather



From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Thu Dec 21 09:48:09 2023
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2023 14:48:09 +0000
Subject: Should I upgrade to Xcode 15.0 or 15.1?
In-Reply-To: <B0783957-A8D5-42D1-8EB6-AB00891EFF3E@gmail.com>
References: <A9C3AAA8-3DDE-4697-9FA3-33868C1AB5CF@gmail.com>
 <43442429-7afd-4ecb-ae09-3ddb880658e2@researchware.com>
 <CADCoycP+1W+eEX3_SQeHPoP45b3-mgtaYaNm6FTHPBjeY75g4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E663A1B3-F670-4BDA-A1C9-3088DE36AE0D@livecode.com>
 <B0783957-A8D5-42D1-8EB6-AB00891EFF3E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3E71C1D9-1C95-4C03-A92A-00151803748A@gmail.com>

That does look like fun. Very clever layout. 

> On 21 Dec 2023, at 1:41 pm, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Just for fun, and because Mermaid is my new toy, I threw together a small web stack that shows the various LC-Xcode-macOS-iOS combinations in a sankey diagram, where you can also change the order of how they are displayed.
> 
> I added some Xcode versions that are NOT compatible with LiveCode too, just as extra info (and to get more data points).
> 
> I don’t know if it adds any insights beyond what you can simply see in the table Heather linked to, but it was a suitable set of data for the sankey format, and also a proof of concept that running Mermaid code in a browser widget deployed to web works flawlessly. :)
> 
> See it here: https://wheninspace.com/LCXcode/
> 
> /Andreas
> 
> 
> 
>> 18 dec. 2023 kl. 18:11 skrev Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Folks, you should upgrade to Xcode 15.0 not 15.1 - see this table (top FAQ):
>> 
>> 
>> https://livecode.com/resources/support/ask-a-question/
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Best Regards,
>> 
>> Heather
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Thu Dec 21 10:37:01 2023
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2023 10:37:01 -0500
Subject: Should I upgrade to Xcode 15.0 or 15.1?
In-Reply-To: <B0783957-A8D5-42D1-8EB6-AB00891EFF3E@gmail.com>
References: <A9C3AAA8-3DDE-4697-9FA3-33868C1AB5CF@gmail.com>
 <43442429-7afd-4ecb-ae09-3ddb880658e2@researchware.com>
 <CADCoycP+1W+eEX3_SQeHPoP45b3-mgtaYaNm6FTHPBjeY75g4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E663A1B3-F670-4BDA-A1C9-3088DE36AE0D@livecode.com>
 <B0783957-A8D5-42D1-8EB6-AB00891EFF3E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <003401da3423$8d8b3060$a8a19120$@net>

Very Nice! This should be on the LC Lesson site. Very helpful for new users.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2023 8:42 AM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Andreas Bergendal
Subject: Re: Should I upgrade to Xcode 15.0 or 15.1?

Just for fun, and because Mermaid is my new toy, I threw together a small web stack that shows the various LC-Xcode-macOS-iOS combinations in a sankey diagram, where you can also change the order of how they are displayed.

I added some Xcode versions that are NOT compatible with LiveCode too, just as extra info (and to get more data points).

I don’t know if it adds any insights beyond what you can simply see in the table Heather linked to, but it was a suitable set of data for the sankey format, and also a proof of concept that running Mermaid code in a browser widget deployed to web works flawlessly. :)

See it here: https://wheninspace.com/LCXcode/

/Andreas



> 18 dec. 2023 kl. 18:11 skrev Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Folks, you should upgrade to Xcode 15.0 not 15.1 - see this table (top FAQ):
> 
> 
> https://livecode.com/resources/support/ask-a-question/
> 
> 
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather


_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu Dec 21 14:05:46 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2023 19:05:46 +0000
Subject: Should I upgrade to Xcode 15.0 or 15.1?
In-Reply-To: <B0783957-A8D5-42D1-8EB6-AB00891EFF3E@gmail.com>
References: <A9C3AAA8-3DDE-4697-9FA3-33868C1AB5CF@gmail.com>
 <43442429-7afd-4ecb-ae09-3ddb880658e2@researchware.com>
 <CADCoycP+1W+eEX3_SQeHPoP45b3-mgtaYaNm6FTHPBjeY75g4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E663A1B3-F670-4BDA-A1C9-3088DE36AE0D@livecode.com>
 <B0783957-A8D5-42D1-8EB6-AB00891EFF3E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A3C1D5CC-CC17-4789-ADFC-280A0BE5A4D8@iotecdigital.com>

That’s pretty useful, but also dismaying. I’m kind of glad now, because my slothfulness had me put off any attempt to make an iOS version of Forms Generator. That is all a lot to consider. Not only am I bound to rebuild for every version of my app, I am also bound to rebuild based on every iOS, MacOS and Xcode versions. No thank you please. 

Of course I am not selling my apps so it doesn’t matter very much to me. For those of us that produce commercial apps, it matters very much. 

Bob S


> On Dec 21, 2023, at 5:41 AM, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Just for fun, and because Mermaid is my new toy, I threw together a small web stack that shows the various LC-Xcode-macOS-iOS combinations in a sankey diagram, where you can also change the order of how they are displayed.
> 
> I added some Xcode versions that are NOT compatible with LiveCode too, just as extra info (and to get more data points).
> 
> I don’t know if it adds any insights beyond what you can simply see in the table Heather linked to, but it was a suitable set of data for the sankey format, and also a proof of concept that running Mermaid code in a browser widget deployed to web works flawlessly. :)
> 
> See it here: https://wheninspace.com/LCXcode/
> 
> /Andreas
> 
> 
> 
>> 18 dec. 2023 kl. 18:11 skrev Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Folks, you should upgrade to Xcode 15.0 not 15.1 - see this table (top FAQ):
>> 
>> 
>> https://livecode.com/resources/support/ask-a-question/
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Best Regards,
>> 
>> Heather
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu Dec 21 14:28:01 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2023 19:28:01 +0000
Subject: Should I upgrade to Xcode 15.0 or 15.1?
In-Reply-To: <A3C1D5CC-CC17-4789-ADFC-280A0BE5A4D8@iotecdigital.com>
References: <A9C3AAA8-3DDE-4697-9FA3-33868C1AB5CF@gmail.com>
 <43442429-7afd-4ecb-ae09-3ddb880658e2@researchware.com>
 <CADCoycP+1W+eEX3_SQeHPoP45b3-mgtaYaNm6FTHPBjeY75g4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E663A1B3-F670-4BDA-A1C9-3088DE36AE0D@livecode.com>
 <B0783957-A8D5-42D1-8EB6-AB00891EFF3E@gmail.com>
 <A3C1D5CC-CC17-4789-ADFC-280A0BE5A4D8@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <F44EB8FD-D58D-414C-BE4E-2A896D769335@iotecdigital.com>

BTW I should add that I do not think this is Livecode’s fault. I imagine every developer for every platform has to deal with this, and now it’s all bled over to desktop apps as well. Seems like forced obsolescence to me. Unmaintained apps get deleted from the store, and therefore from end user’s mobile devices. How convenient for Apple. 

Bob S


> On Dec 21, 2023, at 11:05 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> That’s pretty useful, but also dismaying. I’m kind of glad now, because my slothfulness had me put off any attempt to make an iOS version of Forms Generator. That is all a lot to consider. Not only am I bound to rebuild for every version of my app, I am also bound to rebuild based on every iOS, MacOS and Xcode versions. No thank you please. 
> 
> Of course I am not selling my apps so it doesn’t matter very much to me. For those of us that produce commercial apps, it matters very much. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Dec 21, 2023, at 5:41 AM, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Just for fun, and because Mermaid is my new toy, I threw together a small web stack that shows the various LC-Xcode-macOS-iOS combinations in a sankey diagram, where you can also change the order of how they are displayed.
>> 
>> I added some Xcode versions that are NOT compatible with LiveCode too, just as extra info (and to get more data points).
>> 
>> I don’t know if it adds any insights beyond what you can simply see in the table Heather linked to, but it was a suitable set of data for the sankey format, and also a proof of concept that running Mermaid code in a browser widget deployed to web works flawlessly. :)
>> 
>> See it here: https://wheninspace.com/LCXcode/
>> 
>> /Andreas
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> 18 dec. 2023 kl. 18:11 skrev Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> Folks, you should upgrade to Xcode 15.0 not 15.1 - see this table (top FAQ):
>>> 
>>> 
>>> https://livecode.com/resources/support/ask-a-question/
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Best Regards,
>>> 
>>> Heather
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com  Thu Dec 21 15:24:46 2023
From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal)
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2023 21:24:46 +0100
Subject: Should I upgrade to Xcode 15.0 or 15.1?
In-Reply-To: <F44EB8FD-D58D-414C-BE4E-2A896D769335@iotecdigital.com>
References: <A9C3AAA8-3DDE-4697-9FA3-33868C1AB5CF@gmail.com>
 <43442429-7afd-4ecb-ae09-3ddb880658e2@researchware.com>
 <CADCoycP+1W+eEX3_SQeHPoP45b3-mgtaYaNm6FTHPBjeY75g4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E663A1B3-F670-4BDA-A1C9-3088DE36AE0D@livecode.com>
 <B0783957-A8D5-42D1-8EB6-AB00891EFF3E@gmail.com>
 <A3C1D5CC-CC17-4789-ADFC-280A0BE5A4D8@iotecdigital.com>
 <F44EB8FD-D58D-414C-BE4E-2A896D769335@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <A93DFC13-17E1-46F6-8F8E-E7073AFA7824@gmail.com>

It may not be as bad as it looks, as an app can survive several iOS upgrades without needing to be rebuilt. I have an app in AppStore that I think was targeted at iOS 14, and didn’t malfunction until iOS 17 came. I then rebuilt it targeting iOS 16 (as 17 was not yet supported by the LC deployment chain at the time), and it still works like a charm. 

Since that app had been doing fine for two years, all certificates and provisioning profiles and whatnot had expired, so I had to jump through all the Apple hoops again to get a valid build. It then transferred to TestFlight on the first attempt (!!!), and was approved for AppStore by Apple review within 24 hours. 

All in all I had the new version up and pushed to users in three days, after discovering the blocking iOS 17 bug. (I don’t know what the bug was, I was just hoping that rebuilding with a newer LC version for an iOS version closer to 17 would fix it, and thankfully it did.)

Just to share that positive experiences are still possible, even though I totally agree that iOS deployment still IS a hassle.

I enjoy web deployment much more, and LC10 is getting better and better at that.

/Andreas


> 21 dec. 2023 kl. 20:28 skrev Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> BTW I should add that I do not think this is Livecode’s fault. I imagine every developer for every platform has to deal with this, and now it’s all bled over to desktop apps as well. Seems like forced obsolescence to me. Unmaintained apps get deleted from the store, and therefore from end user’s mobile devices. How convenient for Apple. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Dec 21, 2023, at 11:05 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> That’s pretty useful, but also dismaying. I’m kind of glad now, because my slothfulness had me put off any attempt to make an iOS version of Forms Generator. That is all a lot to consider. Not only am I bound to rebuild for every version of my app, I am also bound to rebuild based on every iOS, MacOS and Xcode versions. No thank you please. 
>> 
>> Of course I am not selling my apps so it doesn’t matter very much to me. For those of us that produce commercial apps, it matters very much. 
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>> 
>>> On Dec 21, 2023, at 5:41 AM, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Just for fun, and because Mermaid is my new toy, I threw together a small web stack that shows the various LC-Xcode-macOS-iOS combinations in a sankey diagram, where you can also change the order of how they are displayed.
>>> 
>>> I added some Xcode versions that are NOT compatible with LiveCode too, just as extra info (and to get more data points).
>>> 
>>> I don’t know if it adds any insights beyond what you can simply see in the table Heather linked to, but it was a suitable set of data for the sankey format, and also a proof of concept that running Mermaid code in a browser widget deployed to web works flawlessly. :)
>>> 
>>> See it here: https://wheninspace.com/LCXcode/
>>> 
>>> /Andreas
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 18 dec. 2023 kl. 18:11 skrev Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>> 
>>>> Folks, you should upgrade to Xcode 15.0 not 15.1 - see this table (top FAQ):
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> https://livecode.com/resources/support/ask-a-question/
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Best Regards,
>>>> 
>>>> Heather


From jiml at netrin.com  Thu Dec 21 16:26:56 2023
From: jiml at netrin.com (Jim Lambert)
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2023 13:26:56 -0800
Subject: Should I upgrade to Xcode 15.0 or 15.1?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1703178001.72710.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.1.1703178001.72710.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <105AD7B9-ABE1-476C-BEFF-52EE33C2A6AD@netrin.com>

> Ralph wrote:
> 
> Very Nice! This should be on the LC Lesson site.

++1

Jim Lambert


From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Thu Dec 21 17:18:16 2023
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2023 17:18:16 -0500
Subject: Should I upgrade to Xcode 15.0 or 15.1?
In-Reply-To: <A93DFC13-17E1-46F6-8F8E-E7073AFA7824@gmail.com>
References: <A9C3AAA8-3DDE-4697-9FA3-33868C1AB5CF@gmail.com>
 <43442429-7afd-4ecb-ae09-3ddb880658e2@researchware.com>
 <CADCoycP+1W+eEX3_SQeHPoP45b3-mgtaYaNm6FTHPBjeY75g4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E663A1B3-F670-4BDA-A1C9-3088DE36AE0D@livecode.com>
 <B0783957-A8D5-42D1-8EB6-AB00891EFF3E@gmail.com>
 <A3C1D5CC-CC17-4789-ADFC-280A0BE5A4D8@iotecdigital.com>
 <F44EB8FD-D58D-414C-BE4E-2A896D769335@iotecdigital.com>
 <A93DFC13-17E1-46F6-8F8E-E7073AFA7824@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <005801da345b$9c201ef0$d4605cd0$@net>

I've had the about the same iOS experience. Annoying, yes. Not so bad after doing it once.

I can't believe what you Mac OS developers go though. The only thing I staple is some pine rope on the fireplace mantle.


Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net


-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2023 3:25 PM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Andreas Bergendal
Subject: Re: Should I upgrade to Xcode 15.0 or 15.1?

It may not be as bad as it looks, as an app can survive several iOS upgrades without needing to be rebuilt. I have an app in AppStore that I think was targeted at iOS 14, and didn’t malfunction until iOS 17 came. I then rebuilt it targeting iOS 16 (as 17 was not yet supported by the LC deployment chain at the time), and it still works like a charm. 

Since that app had been doing fine for two years, all certificates and provisioning profiles and whatnot had expired, so I had to jump through all the Apple hoops again to get a valid build. It then transferred to TestFlight on the first attempt (!!!), and was approved for AppStore by Apple review within 24 hours. 

All in all I had the new version up and pushed to users in three days, after discovering the blocking iOS 17 bug. (I don’t know what the bug was, I was just hoping that rebuilding with a newer LC version for an iOS version closer to 17 would fix it, and thankfully it did.)

Just to share that positive experiences are still possible, even though I totally agree that iOS deployment still IS a hassle.

I enjoy web deployment much more, and LC10 is getting better and better at that.

/Andreas


> 21 dec. 2023 kl. 20:28 skrev Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> BTW I should add that I do not think this is Livecode’s fault. I imagine every developer for every platform has to deal with this, and now it’s all bled over to desktop apps as well. Seems like forced obsolescence to me. Unmaintained apps get deleted from the store, and therefore from end user’s mobile devices. How convenient for Apple. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Dec 21, 2023, at 11:05 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> That’s pretty useful, but also dismaying. I’m kind of glad now, because my slothfulness had me put off any attempt to make an iOS version of Forms Generator. That is all a lot to consider. Not only am I bound to rebuild for every version of my app, I am also bound to rebuild based on every iOS, MacOS and Xcode versions. No thank you please. 
>> 
>> Of course I am not selling my apps so it doesn’t matter very much to me. For those of us that produce commercial apps, it matters very much. 
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>> 
>>> On Dec 21, 2023, at 5:41 AM, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Just for fun, and because Mermaid is my new toy, I threw together a small web stack that shows the various LC-Xcode-macOS-iOS combinations in a sankey diagram, where you can also change the order of how they are displayed.
>>> 
>>> I added some Xcode versions that are NOT compatible with LiveCode too, just as extra info (and to get more data points).
>>> 
>>> I don’t know if it adds any insights beyond what you can simply see in the table Heather linked to, but it was a suitable set of data for the sankey format, and also a proof of concept that running Mermaid code in a browser widget deployed to web works flawlessly. :)
>>> 
>>> See it here: https://wheninspace.com/LCXcode/
>>> 
>>> /Andreas
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 18 dec. 2023 kl. 18:11 skrev Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>> 
>>>> Folks, you should upgrade to Xcode 15.0 not 15.1 - see this table (top FAQ):
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> https://livecode.com/resources/support/ask-a-question/
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Best Regards,
>>>> 
>>>> Heather

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From alanstenhouse at hotmail.com  Thu Dec 21 20:53:16 2023
From: alanstenhouse at hotmail.com (Alan Stenhouse)
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2023 12:23:16 +1030
Subject: Application disappears unexpectedly (goes into background)
Message-ID: <TYZPR06MB6046B3704555F477F3768B6FA594A@TYZPR06MB6046.apcprd06.prod.outlook.com>

I've got a MacOS LC standalone that opens a stackfile external to the application. Whenever I click inside one of the stack windows which doesn't have current focus, all the stack windows disappear and reappear only when I switch to another application and back again. Activating a stack window by clicking on the window title bar works normally (i.e. does not disappear).

Has anyone else seen this at all? Any suggestions for tracking possible causes?

MacOS Ventura
Laptop M1
LC 10 dp... and LC9.11


Thanks a lot for any pointers!

cheers
Alan

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Dec 22 01:45:53 2023
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2023 00:45:53 -0600
Subject: Application disappears unexpectedly (goes into background)
In-Reply-To: <TYZPR06MB6046B3704555F477F3768B6FA594A@TYZPR06MB6046.apcprd06.prod.outlook.com>
References: <TYZPR06MB6046B3704555F477F3768B6FA594A@TYZPR06MB6046.apcprd06.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <18c9045f4e8.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

Have you done a global search for the word "hide" in the scripts?

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On December 21, 2023 7:55:47 PM Alan Stenhouse via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I've got a MacOS LC standalone that opens a stackfile external to the 
> application. Whenever I click inside one of the stack windows which doesn't 
> have current focus, all the stack windows disappear and reappear only when 
> I switch to another application and back again. Activating a stack window 
> by clicking on the window title bar works normally (i.e. does not disappear).
>
> Has anyone else seen this at all? Any suggestions for tracking possible causes?
>
> MacOS Ventura
> Laptop M1
> LC 10 dp... and LC9.11
>
>
> Thanks a lot for any pointers!
>
> cheers
> Alan
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From craig at starfirelighting.com  Fri Dec 22 08:55:09 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2023 08:55:09 -0500
Subject: Application disappears unexpectedly (goes into background)
In-Reply-To: <18c9045f4e8.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <TYZPR06MB6046B3704555F477F3768B6FA594A@TYZPR06MB6046.apcprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <18c9045f4e8.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <897669BF-AA04-43AA-A5BC-464F7FEA5D16@starfirelighting.com>

Clicking on a titlebar sends no messages to LC, only to the OS, essentially saying “bring me to the front”.

The fact that all the card windows reappear when you do that seems very odd to me. If I hide a stack and then go somewhere else on my computer, that stack does not reappear just because I brought LC back to the front. Hidden stacks stay hidden until explicitly made visible, as they should.

Jacque’s  suggestion seems reasonable, but it seems like a long shot.

Have you tried restarting?

Can’t wait to hear how this (hopefully) resolves.

Craig

> On Dec 22, 2023, at 1:45 AM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Have you done a global search for the word "hide" in the scripts?
> 
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On December 21, 2023 7:55:47 PM Alan Stenhouse via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> I've got a MacOS LC standalone that opens a stackfile external to the application. Whenever I click inside one of the stack windows which doesn't have current focus, all the stack windows disappear and reappear only when I switch to another application and back again. Activating a stack window by clicking on the window title bar works normally (i.e. does not disappear).
>> 
>> Has anyone else seen this at all? Any suggestions for tracking possible causes?
>> 
>> MacOS Ventura
>> Laptop M1
>> LC 10 dp... and LC9.11
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks a lot for any pointers!
>> 
>> cheers
>> Alan
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From Mark at rauterkus.com  Fri Dec 22 10:43:44 2023
From: Mark at rauterkus.com (Mark Rauterkus)
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2023 10:43:44 -0500
Subject: Anyone ever put a token into the Apple Wallet and Play (Android)
 wallet?
Message-ID: <CAGV_Z3BUA37gx419tE_K4rgs3-_vXeFaiS1buMYTMQ-_uV7P_g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Wondering if there is a way to make a LiveCode app that can then generate a
membership card thingie / ticket for inclusion into the wallet of mobile
devices.

???

We need an affordable way to make an ID card. Needs to expire. Verification
doesn't need to be so iron-clad nor block-chain enabled.

Similar commercial app:
https://cuseum.com/

https://passkit.com/
https://help.passkit.com/

Might be more universal to have the membership card in your Apple Wallet or
Google thing on your Android phone.

They charge pennies per card. Then hook it to a backend database.

Wondering if this could be done with LiveCode too?

From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Dec 22 11:30:50 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2023 16:30:50 +0000
Subject: Application disappears unexpectedly (goes into background)
In-Reply-To: <897669BF-AA04-43AA-A5BC-464F7FEA5D16@starfirelighting.com>
References: <TYZPR06MB6046B3704555F477F3768B6FA594A@TYZPR06MB6046.apcprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <18c9045f4e8.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <897669BF-AA04-43AA-A5BC-464F7FEA5D16@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <1E3A2A4B-4E4D-4A49-8D67-8AFA68987F21@iotecdigital.com>

Well, resumeStack would trigger, wouldn’t it? 

Bob S


> On Dec 22, 2023, at 5:55 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Clicking on a titlebar sends no messages to LC, only to the OS, essentially saying “bring me to the front”.
> 
> The fact that all the card windows reappear when you do that seems very odd to me. If I hide a stack and then go somewhere else on my computer, that stack does not reappear just because I brought LC back to the front. Hidden stacks stay hidden until explicitly made visible, as they should.
> 
> Jacque’s  suggestion seems reasonable, but it seems like a long shot.
> 
> Have you tried restarting?
> 
> Can’t wait to hear how this (hopefully) resolves.
> 
> Craig
> 
>> On Dec 22, 2023, at 1:45 AM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Have you done a global search for the word "hide" in the scripts?
>> 
>> --
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>> On December 21, 2023 7:55:47 PM Alan Stenhouse via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I've got a MacOS LC standalone that opens a stackfile external to the application. Whenever I click inside one of the stack windows which doesn't have current focus, all the stack windows disappear and reappear only when I switch to another application and back again. Activating a stack window by clicking on the window title bar works normally (i.e. does not disappear).
>>> 
>>> Has anyone else seen this at all? Any suggestions for tracking possible causes?
>>> 
>>> MacOS Ventura
>>> Laptop M1
>>> LC 10 dp... and LC9.11
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Thanks a lot for any pointers!
>>> 
>>> cheers
>>> Alan
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From craig at starfirelighting.com  Fri Dec 22 11:44:10 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2023 11:44:10 -0500
Subject: Application disappears unexpectedly (goes into background)
In-Reply-To: <1E3A2A4B-4E4D-4A49-8D67-8AFA68987F21@iotecdigital.com>
References: <TYZPR06MB6046B3704555F477F3768B6FA594A@TYZPR06MB6046.apcprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <18c9045f4e8.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <897669BF-AA04-43AA-A5BC-464F7FEA5D16@starfirelighting.com>
 <1E3A2A4B-4E4D-4A49-8D67-8AFA68987F21@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <1C14EF33-B285-4A10-834D-F52035E05C4D@starfirelighting.com>

Bob.

Certainly, and I suppose that would be the place where Jacque's proposed “hide” commands might, er, hide.

Craig

> On Dec 22, 2023, at 11:30 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Well, resumeStack would trigger, wouldn’t it? 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Dec 22, 2023, at 5:55 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Clicking on a titlebar sends no messages to LC, only to the OS, essentially saying “bring me to the front”.
>> 
>> The fact that all the card windows reappear when you do that seems very odd to me. If I hide a stack and then go somewhere else on my computer, that stack does not reappear just because I brought LC back to the front. Hidden stacks stay hidden until explicitly made visible, as they should.
>> 
>> Jacque’s  suggestion seems reasonable, but it seems like a long shot.
>> 
>> Have you tried restarting?
>> 
>> Can’t wait to hear how this (hopefully) resolves.
>> 
>> Craig
>> 
>>> On Dec 22, 2023, at 1:45 AM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Have you done a global search for the word "hide" in the scripts?
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>> On December 21, 2023 7:55:47 PM Alan Stenhouse via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I've got a MacOS LC standalone that opens a stackfile external to the application. Whenever I click inside one of the stack windows which doesn't have current focus, all the stack windows disappear and reappear only when I switch to another application and back again. Activating a stack window by clicking on the window title bar works normally (i.e. does not disappear).
>>>> 
>>>> Has anyone else seen this at all? Any suggestions for tracking possible causes?
>>>> 
>>>> MacOS Ventura
>>>> Laptop M1
>>>> LC 10 dp... and LC9.11
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks a lot for any pointers!
>>>> 
>>>> cheers
>>>> Alan
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From craig at starfirelighting.com  Fri Dec 22 11:46:11 2023
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2023 11:46:11 -0500
Subject: Anyone ever put a token into the Apple Wallet and Play (Android)
 wallet?
In-Reply-To: <CAGV_Z3BUA37gx419tE_K4rgs3-_vXeFaiS1buMYTMQ-_uV7P_g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGV_Z3BUA37gx419tE_K4rgs3-_vXeFaiS1buMYTMQ-_uV7P_g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <67E53A41-1702-40CF-8F76-B926EDD5901F@starfirelighting.com>

Could not help myself from being unhelpful.

I am positive LC can do this, whatever you meant.

Craig

> On Dec 22, 2023, at 10:43 AM, Mark Rauterkus via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Wondering if there is a way to make a LiveCode app that can then generate a
> membership card thingie / ticket for inclusion into the wallet of mobile
> devices.
> 
> ???
> 
> We need an affordable way to make an ID card. Needs to expire. Verification
> doesn't need to be so iron-clad nor block-chain enabled.
> 
> Similar commercial app:
> https://cuseum.com/
> 
> https://passkit.com/
> https://help.passkit.com/
> 
> Might be more universal to have the membership card in your Apple Wallet or
> Google thing on your Android phone.
> 
> They charge pennies per card. Then hook it to a backend database.
> 
> Wondering if this could be done with LiveCode too?
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu Dec 28 14:59:40 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2023 19:59:40 +0000
Subject: PDF Widget and Javascript
Message-ID: <A118EC0F-F83D-43DC-AD6A-11549681EEBB@iotecdigital.com>

Hi all. 

This is a long shot, but is there any kind of PDF gadget in Livecode that can run javascript? I am specifically wanting to generate an FDF file from fillable forms. The javascript is fairly straightforward: 

This.ExportAsFDF(true, false, null)

This will work in a javascript enabled PDF application and will use the currently open PDF fillable document, generating an FDF file named after the PDF name (without the dot3 extension) appended by “_data.fdf” 

It would be quite the luxury to be able to do this in Livecode, otherwise I have to pay for a licensed Pro version (I think they are all subscription based now) and the ONLY thing I need from the Pro version is this function. 

Bob S


From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Fri Dec 29 10:04:52 2023
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2023 10:04:52 -0500
Subject: PDF Widget and JavaScript
In-Reply-To: <A118EC0F-F83D-43DC-AD6A-11549681EEBB@iotecdigital.com>
References: <A118EC0F-F83D-43DC-AD6A-11549681EEBB@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <001301da3a68$6355d430$2a017c90$@net>

The last I knew the JavaScript engine is not implemented in the PDF widget.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Bob Sneidar via use-livecode
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2023 3:00 PM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Bob Sneidar
Subject: PDF Widget and Javascript

Hi all. 

This is a long shot, but is there any kind of PDF gadget in Livecode that can run javascript? I am specifically wanting to generate an FDF file from fillable forms. The javascript is fairly straightforward: 

This.ExportAsFDF(true, false, null)

This will work in a javascript enabled PDF application and will use the currently open PDF fillable document, generating an FDF file named after the PDF name (without the dot3 extension) appended by “_data.fdf” 

It would be quite the luxury to be able to do this in Livecode, otherwise I have to pay for a licensed Pro version (I think they are all subscription based now) and the ONLY thing I need from the Pro version is this function. 

Bob S

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Dec 29 11:38:56 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2023 16:38:56 +0000
Subject: PDF Widget and JavaScript
In-Reply-To: <001301da3a68$6355d430$2a017c90$@net>
References: <A118EC0F-F83D-43DC-AD6A-11549681EEBB@iotecdigital.com>
 <001301da3a68$6355d430$2a017c90$@net>
Message-ID: <CC0F87B4-9E16-42D9-B439-56C1AB8DB227@iotecdigital.com>

Thanks Ralph I figured as much. It’s actually not difficult to recreate from scratch if the structure, header and footer is known. The trouble is the fields. If I had a list of form controls for a given form, I could create one from scratch easily enough. 

The fillable forms have to be saved with an open file action to autofill, and if someone can do that, I suppose they already have the ability to export the fdf file using the javascript console in Acrobat Pro. 

Bob S


> On Dec 29, 2023, at 7:04 AM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> The last I knew the JavaScript engine is not implemented in the PDF widget.
> 
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Bob Sneidar via use-livecode
> Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2023 3:00 PM
> To: How to use LiveCode
> Cc: Bob Sneidar
> Subject: PDF Widget and Javascript
> 
> Hi all. 
> 
> This is a long shot, but is there any kind of PDF gadget in Livecode that can run javascript? I am specifically wanting to generate an FDF file from fillable forms. The javascript is fairly straightforward: 
> 
> This.ExportAsFDF(true, false, null)
> 
> This will work in a javascript enabled PDF application and will use the currently open PDF fillable document, generating an FDF file named after the PDF name (without the dot3 extension) appended by “_data.fdf” 
> 
> It would be quite the luxury to be able to do this in Livecode, otherwise I have to pay for a licensed Pro version (I think they are all subscription based now) and the ONLY thing I need from the Pro version is this function. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Dec 29 17:39:24 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2023 22:39:24 +0000
Subject: Message Sent when Resizing Widgets: Workaround
Message-ID: <974092CF-BF5B-4733-AA36-600C05E9E085@iotecdigital.com>

I have a kind of custom group composed of a segmented widget and a transparent button the exact size of the widget, the purpose of which is to be able to handle messages that are otherwise not sent to the widget. In fact almost NO messages are sent to a widget, a source of some consternation from users of this list. 

There are three issues with this, the first being that if there is a button on top of a widget, then no messages get sent directly from the engine to the widget at all! The second is that if I add more segments or resize the widget, the width of the overlay button also needs to match. The third issue is that if I click on the overlay button, I need to know, as in the case of a mouse click which segment was clicked on. 

To this end I wrote some handlers for the widget and the overlay button which allow you to handle any messages a button might receive and then process them for the widget. This is of course just a basic framework. The important handlers are resizeControl and the getProp clickedTab. 

Unfortunately, and although changing the size of the widget will send the resizeContol message to t he widget, editing the width in the widget’s properties palette does NOT send the message. The upshot is that if you make changes to a widget, you can simply run the resizeControl handler to clean things up. 

In my case I always want the widget segments to be the same size, and I always want the widget to be centered on the card. YMMV. You could get even fancier if you wanted and calculate the formattedWidth of the segment names, add a little air around them, then set the width of the widget to the sum of those, and then the minimum segment widths to those formattedWidths. But manipulating the minimum segment widths to get the correct width for each segment is something I have not fathomed. I wish they had given us a property for the *actual* segment widths. 

For the widget itself I have these handlers: 

on hiliteChanged
   put the hilitedItemNames of me into tTabName
   put the itemNames of me into tTabList
   tabChanged tTabName, tTabList
end hiliteChanged

on tabChanged pTab, pTabList
   -- your code here  
end tabChanged

on resizeControl
   wait until the mouse is up with messages
   put the long id of me into tMyID
   put wordOffset("card", tMyID) +1 into tPos
   put word tPos to -1 of tMyID into tParentCard
   put the width of widget "TabBar" into tWidth
   put tWidth / the itemCount of widget "TabBar" into tSegmentWidth
   
   repeat with i = 1 to the itemCount of widget "TabBar"
      put tSegmentWidth into item i of tSegmentWidths
   end repeat
   
   set the itemMinExtents of widget "TabBar" to tSegmentWidths
   
   -- center the widget left to right
   put the loc of widget "TabBar" into tTabLoc
   put the loc of tParentCard into tCardLoc
   put item 1 of tCardLoc into item 1 of tTabLoc
   set the loc of widget "TabBar" to tTabLoc
   
   -- set the rect of the overlay button to match
   set the rect of button "btnTabOverlay" to the rect of widget "TabBar"
end resizeControl


Then for the overlay button: 

on mouseUp
   put the clickedTab of me into tTab
   set the hilitedItemNames of widget "TabBar" to tTab
end mouseUp

on mouseDoubleUp
   put the clickedTab of me into tTab
   
   -- your code here
end mouseDoubleUp

getProp clickedTab
   put the clickLoc into tClickLoc
   put the itemNames of widget "TabBar" into tTabNames
   put the rect of widget "TabBar" into tTabRect
   put item 3 of tTabRect - item 1 of tTabRect into tTabWidth
   put the itemCount of widget "TabBar" into tTabCount
   put tTabWidth / tTabCount into tSegmentWidth
   
   repeat with i = 1 to tTabCount
      put round(item 1 of tTabRect + (tSegmentWidth * i)) into tSegmentBounds
      
      if item 1 of tClickLoc <= tSegmentBounds then
         put item i of tTabNames into tTab
         exit repeat
      end if
   end repeat
   
   put the itemMinExtents of widget "TabBar" into tExtents
   return tTab
end clickedTab



From paul at researchware.com  Fri Dec 29 17:53:56 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2023 17:53:56 -0500
Subject: Message Sent when Resizing Widgets: Workaround
In-Reply-To: <974092CF-BF5B-4733-AA36-600C05E9E085@iotecdigital.com>
References: <974092CF-BF5B-4733-AA36-600C05E9E085@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <3ad9f85f-3d9a-44c2-8991-dd0483f38dde@researchware.com>

Bob,

This is nice trick (and code) to use an overlayed button to get a widget 
to respond to standard messages. Impressive!

I really think that Livecode Ltd. needs to prioritize adding a set of 
"standard" object messages to every current widget to address these 3 
bugs (and their generalization to all other widgets):
https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=24458
https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=24437
https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=24429

Every widget should be able to handle OR pass  through (just like every 
Livecode field, button, scrollbar, etc.) resizeControl, mouseEnter, 
mouseWithin, mouseLeave, mouseDown, mouseDoubleDown, mouseStillDown, 
mouseUp, mouseDoubleUp, and probably a bunch more.


On 12/29/2023 5:39 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
> I have a kind of custom group composed of a segmented widget and a transparent button the exact size of the widget, the purpose of which is to be able to handle messages that are otherwise not sent to the widget. In fact almost NO messages are sent to a widget, a source of some consternation from users of this list.
>
> There are three issues with this, the first being that if there is a button on top of a widget, then no messages get sent directly from the engine to the widget at all! The second is that if I add more segments or resize the widget, the width of the overlay button also needs to match. The third issue is that if I click on the overlay button, I need to know, as in the case of a mouse click which segment was clicked on.
>
> To this end I wrote some handlers for the widget and the overlay button which allow you to handle any messages a button might receive and then process them for the widget. This is of course just a basic framework. The important handlers are resizeControl and the getProp clickedTab.
>
> Unfortunately, and although changing the size of the widget will send the resizeContol message to t he widget, editing the width in the widgets properties palette does NOT send the message. The upshot is that if you make changes to a widget, you can simply run the resizeControl handler to clean things up.
>
> In my case I always want the widget segments to be the same size, and I always want the widget to be centered on the card. YMMV. You could get even fancier if you wanted and calculate the formattedWidth of the segment names, add a little air around them, then set the width of the widget to the sum of those, and then the minimum segment widths to those formattedWidths. But manipulating the minimum segment widths to get the correct width for each segment is something I have not fathomed. I wish they had given us a property for the *actual* segment widths.
>
> For the widget itself I have these handlers:
>
> on hiliteChanged
>     put the hilitedItemNames of me into tTabName
>     put the itemNames of me into tTabList
>     tabChanged tTabName, tTabList
> end hiliteChanged
>
> on tabChanged pTab, pTabList
>     -- your code here
> end tabChanged
>
> on resizeControl
>     wait until the mouse is up with messages
>     put the long id of me into tMyID
>     put wordOffset("card", tMyID) +1 into tPos
>     put word tPos to -1 of tMyID into tParentCard
>     put the width of widget "TabBar" into tWidth
>     put tWidth / the itemCount of widget "TabBar" into tSegmentWidth
>     
>     repeat with i = 1 to the itemCount of widget "TabBar"
>        put tSegmentWidth into item i of tSegmentWidths
>     end repeat
>     
>     set the itemMinExtents of widget "TabBar" to tSegmentWidths
>     
>     -- center the widget left to right
>     put the loc of widget "TabBar" into tTabLoc
>     put the loc of tParentCard into tCardLoc
>     put item 1 of tCardLoc into item 1 of tTabLoc
>     set the loc of widget "TabBar" to tTabLoc
>     
>     -- set the rect of the overlay button to match
>     set the rect of button "btnTabOverlay" to the rect of widget "TabBar"
> end resizeControl
>
>
> Then for the overlay button:
>
> on mouseUp
>     put the clickedTab of me into tTab
>     set the hilitedItemNames of widget "TabBar" to tTab
> end mouseUp
>
> on mouseDoubleUp
>     put the clickedTab of me into tTab
>     
>     -- your code here
> end mouseDoubleUp
>
> getProp clickedTab
>     put the clickLoc into tClickLoc
>     put the itemNames of widget "TabBar" into tTabNames
>     put the rect of widget "TabBar" into tTabRect
>     put item 3 of tTabRect - item 1 of tTabRect into tTabWidth
>     put the itemCount of widget "TabBar" into tTabCount
>     put tTabWidth / tTabCount into tSegmentWidth
>     
>     repeat with i = 1 to tTabCount
>        put round(item 1 of tTabRect + (tSegmentWidth * i)) into tSegmentBounds
>        
>        if item 1 of tClickLoc <= tSegmentBounds then
>           put item i of tTabNames into tTab
>           exit repeat
>        end if
>     end repeat
>     
>     put the itemMinExtents of widget "TabBar" into tExtents
>     return tTab
> end clickedTab
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Dec 29 18:23:26 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2023 23:23:26 +0000
Subject: Message Sent when Resizing Widgets: Workaround
In-Reply-To: <3ad9f85f-3d9a-44c2-8991-dd0483f38dde@researchware.com>
References: <974092CF-BF5B-4733-AA36-600C05E9E085@iotecdigital.com>
 <3ad9f85f-3d9a-44c2-8991-dd0483f38dde@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <8B20C3AB-F9F1-4A72-831C-F9EACEDBC2C3@iotecdigital.com>

I wholeheartedly agree. But one of the most endearing qualities of Livecode, at least to me is that if something doesn’t work exactly the way I want, I can make something that does. The Datagrid is the offspring of this. I remember days when a lot of devs were clamoring for a table object that actually behaved like a table! What Trevor Devore gave us was a group object that did practically everything that everyone wanted in a table object, and then a bit more! I cannot imagine developing in Livecode now without it. I’m sure it was a collaborative effort, but I think Trevor led the charge. Take a little time and read up on his bio. Pretty incredible.

Bob S


On Dec 29, 2023, at 2:53 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

Every widget should be able to handle OR pass  through (just like every Livecode field, button, scrollbar, etc.) resizeControl, mouseEnter, mouseWithin, mouseLeave, mouseDown, mouseDoubleDown, mouseStillDown, mouseUp, mouseDoubleUp, and probably a bunch more.


On 12/29/2023 5:39 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:



From ahsoftware at sonic.net  Sat Dec 30 18:03:04 2023
From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2023 15:03:04 -0800
Subject: Thanks for all the fish
Message-ID: <43c2b3e7-902f-4d8d-a3f9-71a75cfe50f1@sonic.net>

PowerDebug and PowerTools have now been released into the wild as 
opensource tools (MIT license).
Code is all intact, although the check for update functionality has been 
commented out for obvious reasons.
Have fun.

https://github.com/mwieder/PowerDebug
https://github.com/mwieder/PowerTools

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Sat Dec 30 19:01:30 2023
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2023 00:01:30 +0000
Subject: Thanks for all the fish
In-Reply-To: <43c2b3e7-902f-4d8d-a3f9-71a75cfe50f1@sonic.net>
References: <43c2b3e7-902f-4d8d-a3f9-71a75cfe50f1@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <58D614A1-D14E-4044-90B3-A8DF8F18AF70@iotecdigital.com>

Sooo.  I should drink several pints of beer and eat a couple bags of peanuts (for the salt, I’m gonna need it) because I’m standing next to a galaxy hitchhiker with a ring on his thumb, otherwise I’m screwed? Mmm kay. I don’t need all those excuses. And I have no idea where my towel is. Yeah, I’m screwed. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 30, 2023, at 15:04, Mark Wieder via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> PowerDebug and PowerTools have now been released into the wild as opensource tools (MIT license).
> Code is all intact, although the check for update functionality has been commented out for obvious reasons.
> Have fun.
> 
> https://github.com/mwieder/PowerDebug
> https://github.com/mwieder/PowerTools
> 
> -- 
> Mark Wieder
> ahsoftware at gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

From cszasz at mac.com  Sun Dec 31 09:41:23 2023
From: cszasz at mac.com (Charles Szasz)
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2023 07:41:23 -0700
Subject: Embedded PDFs in Windows Menu
Message-ID: <1F81F2DA-BA59-48CE-B8BE-8997021E3B4E@mac.com>

I have found that a method I use (proposed by LC tech support a few years ago to embed PDFs in a Windows menu (using custom properties) does not work in LC 9+. It does work on a Mac. Anybody have solution for this problem?


Sent from my iPad

From paul at researchware.com  Sun Dec 31 10:16:53 2023
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2023 10:16:53 -0500
Subject: Embedded PDFs in Windows Menu
In-Reply-To: <1F81F2DA-BA59-48CE-B8BE-8997021E3B4E@mac.com>
References: <1F81F2DA-BA59-48CE-B8BE-8997021E3B4E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <64c05a9c-9469-4d1d-8079-49094a3add00@researchware.com>

I'm not sure exactly what you are talking about?

Are you asking about launching a PDF from a menu item under a "Windows" 
menu?

On 12/31/2023 9:41 AM, Charles Szasz via use-livecode wrote:
> I have found that a method I use (proposed by LC tech support a few years ago to embed PDFs in a Windows menu (using custom properties) does not work in LC 9+. It does work on a Mac. Anybody have solution for this problem?
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Sun Dec 31 11:52:29 2023
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe)
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2023 17:52:29 +0100
Subject: Embedded PDFs in Windows Menu
In-Reply-To: <64c05a9c-9469-4d1d-8079-49094a3add00@researchware.com>
References: <64c05a9c-9469-4d1d-8079-49094a3add00@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <92C8E843-8760-4771-BC89-48CC2CF637F9@m-r-d.de>

Paul,

the subject of Charles post is a bit misleading.
The problem does not have to do with the menu.

Charles problem is the following. He stored several PDF files on macOS as custom properties. His program allows the user to save the PDF to hard disk using a menu entry.
The command for creating the PDF is
put the PDFfile1 of this stack into URL “binfile:……..“

When the PDF is saved on macOS the PDF is readable (on Windows and macOS), when the PDF is saved on Windows, a PDF with blank pages is created.

I am not sure, if this maybe has to do with encoding or so?

Regards,
Matthias

Von meinem iPad gesendet
> Am 31.12.2023 um 16:18 schrieb Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> I'm not sure exactly what you are talking about?
> 
> Are you asking about launching a PDF from a menu item under a "Windows" menu?
> 
>> On 12/31/2023 9:41 AM, Charles Szasz via use-livecode wrote:
>> I have found that a method I use (proposed by LC tech support a few years ago to embed PDFs in a Windows menu (using custom properties) does not work in LC 9+. It does work on a Mac. Anybody have solution for this problem?
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode