From sean at pidigital.co.uk Thu Sep 1 00:08:54 2022 From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Sean Cole) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 05:08:54 +0100 Subject: Livecode / Github In-Reply-To: <3ba1188d-59d4-c5d7-3f8e-262529b5ccfc@sonic.net> References: <9ECE2480-BAAB-4E8A-B97D-70F2153A91C3@pidigital.co.uk> <8b549acf-8e33-a468-d7e8-3c1fa6ce7c34@sonic.net> <56eb98b4-b369-aefa-54d3-eb12f220b87c@sonic.net> <3ba1188d-59d4-c5d7-3f8e-262529b5ccfc@sonic.net> Message-ID: Yeah, I could really do with it giving me some feedback as to where this object is. Actually, I could... ... I just wrote a plugin for it. Use scCreatePlugin "","" (scCreatePlugin on its own doesn't work from the message box like the dictionary suggests). Then in the script I used global gLastObject on savingProperties pLongId, @pProperteis --> your code put "saving properties of" && pLongId into gLastObject put word -2 to -1 of gLastObject wait 0.01 millisec with messages end savingProperties ---- Once I ran this it displayed which substack it was working on in the message box and once it had failed the global showed me the last parameter it had successfully accessed. Cool. But I still can't work out which parameter of either that object (a standard text field) or the next (a group with no behaviours or anything out of the ordinary as far as I can tell). I'll come back to it tomorrow. It's silly o'clock now. Sean On Wed, 31 Aug 2022 at 17:13, Mark Wieder via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 8/31/22 03:00, Sean Cole via use-livecode wrote: > > > LC Team: :-) It would be REALLY handy if proper errors were thrown when > one > > occurs that can help us easily understand what the issues are. Also, if > > prior to release documentation were gone through to make sure they are > > legible. And if plugins released actually work as described. :-) > > Actually, it's even worse. > The result is empty if no error occurred and "* successful" if it > worked. To me that seems backwards. > > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23911 > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From gcanyon at gmail.com Thu Sep 1 00:54:58 2022 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2022 21:54:58 -0700 Subject: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <816C27F1-2EFD-47F9-A507-46245A41158A@gmail.com> <69F805E3-DF6D-4403-BE3E-84CAB718344B@milby7.com> Message-ID: Agreed -- I've put off LCB because I don't much bother with widgets. I suppose I could update Navigator, but it already works well, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ So if it isn't faster, dare I say it, why would I? gc On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 5:54 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > It would be interesting if lcb was slower, since it's supposed to be > lower-level. > The demo that Steven did, demonstrating the speed of populating a polyGrid > (lcb widget) vs. a dataGrid (lcs group) was that it was much, much faster. > > On Tue, Aug 30, 2022 at 5:58 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > LCB has been slower than LCS, but the advantage is that you can easily > > link to much faster compiler code. I’m not sure if that has changed > any… I > > could pull out some code from a while back where we were doing some speed > > tests. > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > On Aug 30, 2022, at 5:31 PM, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > > > Is there a page that discusses the pros of LCB? I looked and didn’t > > find it. > > > > > > I’m thinking of a simple list (I’m making this up because I didn’t find > > the page) > > > > > > — N times faster execution than LCS > > > — interface with code libraries using simple hooks > > > — bundle code and graphics together into widgets > > > > > > More? > > > > > > gc > > > > > >>> On Aug 28, 2022, at 11:27 AM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> On 8/28/22 11:06, Mike Kerner wrote: > > >>> the lcb documentation, especially in the api widget is ungreat. > > >>> the good news is that as long as there is an oss repo version of LC, > > you can hunt for some of the information that is missing. AND, at least > for > > now, you can still find much of it in the LC application > > >>> example: as i was hunting, i found a bunch of editors, but none of > > them seem to be documented anywhere obvious. > > >> > > >> Yep - I find most of my documentation by digging. > > >> > > >> The lack of colornames just bit me earlier this week and I had to > > backpedal and code a list of a dozen color names as "R,G,B". Even the > > "#FFFFFF" format isn't accepted. > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Mark Wieder > > >> ahsoftware at gmail.com > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> use-livecode mailing list > > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From gcanyon at gmail.com Thu Sep 1 02:25:38 2022 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2022 23:25:38 -0700 Subject: Livecode / Github In-Reply-To: References: <9ECE2480-BAAB-4E8A-B97D-70F2153A91C3@pidigital.co.uk> <8b549acf-8e33-a468-d7e8-3c1fa6ce7c34@sonic.net> <56eb98b4-b369-aefa-54d3-eb12f220b87c@sonic.net> <3ba1188d-59d4-c5d7-3f8e-262529b5ccfc@sonic.net> Message-ID: So all this discussion reminded me that I wrote an export/import stack some time ago. I definitely don't still have a copy on my computer, so I went looking on the web: geoff canyon livecode export -- nothing useful, maybe it was in the runrev era? geoff canyon runrev export -- no luck. I remembered that I used XML formatting for the export. Something like XML Geoff Canyon export did the trick. 21 years ago? What?? Then off to archive.org to find the actual file: mcripper.mc And... I'm looking at my ancient history! I'm curious to try it on a large stack and see how it does. gc On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 9:10 PM Sean Cole via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Yeah, I could really do with it giving me some feedback as to where this > object is. Actually, I could... > ... I just wrote a plugin for it. Use scCreatePlugin "","" (scCreatePlugin > on its own doesn't work from the message box like the dictionary suggests). > Then in the script I used > > global gLastObject > > on savingProperties pLongId, @pProperteis > --> your code > put "saving properties of" && pLongId into gLastObject > put word -2 to -1 of gLastObject > wait 0.01 millisec with messages > end savingProperties > > ---- > > Once I ran this it displayed which substack it was working on in the > message box and once it had failed the global showed me the last parameter > it had successfully accessed. Cool. But I still can't work out which > parameter of either that object (a standard text field) or the next (a > group with no behaviours or anything out of the ordinary as far as I can > tell). I'll come back to it tomorrow. It's silly o'clock now. > > Sean > > On Wed, 31 Aug 2022 at 17:13, Mark Wieder via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > On 8/31/22 03:00, Sean Cole via use-livecode wrote: > > > > > LC Team: :-) It would be REALLY handy if proper errors were thrown when > > one > > > occurs that can help us easily understand what the issues are. Also, if > > > prior to release documentation were gone through to make sure they are > > > legible. And if plugins released actually work as described. :-) > > > > Actually, it's even worse. > > The result is empty if no error occurred and "* successful" if it > > worked. To me that seems backwards. > > > > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23911 > > > > -- > > Mark Wieder > > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu Sep 1 08:47:47 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 08:47:47 -0400 Subject: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <816C27F1-2EFD-47F9-A507-46245A41158A@gmail.com> <69F805E3-DF6D-4403-BE3E-84CAB718344B@milby7.com> Message-ID: I don't know why you would. Libraries that aren't trying to get into system-level API's don't need to be there. On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 12:56 AM Geoff Canyon via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Agreed -- I've put off LCB because I don't much bother with widgets. I > suppose I could update Navigator, but it already works well, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ > > So if it isn't faster, dare I say it, why would I? > > gc > > On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 5:54 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > It would be interesting if lcb was slower, since it's supposed to be > > lower-level. > > The demo that Steven did, demonstrating the speed of populating a > polyGrid > > (lcb widget) vs. a dataGrid (lcs group) was that it was much, much > faster. > > > > On Tue, Aug 30, 2022 at 5:58 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > > LCB has been slower than LCS, but the advantage is that you can easily > > > link to much faster compiler code. I’m not sure if that has changed > > any… I > > > could pull out some code from a while back where we were doing some > speed > > > tests. > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > > > On Aug 30, 2022, at 5:31 PM, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode < > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > Is there a page that discusses the pros of LCB? I looked and didn’t > > > find it. > > > > > > > > I’m thinking of a simple list (I’m making this up because I didn’t > find > > > the page) > > > > > > > > — N times faster execution than LCS > > > > — interface with code libraries using simple hooks > > > > — bundle code and graphics together into widgets > > > > > > > > More? > > > > > > > > gc > > > > > > > >>> On Aug 28, 2022, at 11:27 AM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode < > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > >>> > > > >>> On 8/28/22 11:06, Mike Kerner wrote: > > > >>> the lcb documentation, especially in the api widget is ungreat. > > > >>> the good news is that as long as there is an oss repo version of > LC, > > > you can hunt for some of the information that is missing. AND, at least > > for > > > now, you can still find much of it in the LC application > > > >>> example: as i was hunting, i found a bunch of editors, but none of > > > them seem to be documented anywhere obvious. > > > >> > > > >> Yep - I find most of my documentation by digging. > > > >> > > > >> The lack of colornames just bit me earlier this week and I had to > > > backpedal and code a list of a dozen color names as "R,G,B". Even the > > > "#FFFFFF" format isn't accepted. > > > >> > > > >> -- > > > >> Mark Wieder > > > >> ahsoftware at gmail.com > > > >> > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> use-livecode mailing list > > > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > subscription preferences: > > > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > subscription preferences: > > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Sep 1 11:10:31 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 15:10:31 +0000 Subject: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <816C27F1-2EFD-47F9-A507-46245A41158A@gmail.com> <69F805E3-DF6D-4403-BE3E-84CAB718344B@milby7.com> Message-ID: <6FD1450A-87FA-4208-B4F8-6050A5F358AE@iotecdigital.com> Also, when it comes to performance, developers should ask not only is it faster, but would anyone notice the difference? I used to say, "A computer only needs to be fast enough." Some will ask, "Fast enough for what?" To which I reply, "Now you are asking the right question." Bob S On Aug 31, 2022, at 21:54 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode > wrote: Agreed -- I've put off LCB because I don't much bother with widgets. I suppose I could update Navigator, but it already works well, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ So if it isn't faster, dare I say it, why would I? gc From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Thu Sep 1 11:36:47 2022 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 11:36:47 -0400 Subject: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: <6FD1450A-87FA-4208-B4F8-6050A5F358AE@iotecdigital.com> References: <816C27F1-2EFD-47F9-A507-46245A41158A@gmail.com> <69F805E3-DF6D-4403-BE3E-84CAB718344B@milby7.com> <6FD1450A-87FA-4208-B4F8-6050A5F358AE@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <002b01d8be18$a8cd77c0$fa686740$@net> 42 Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Bob Sneidar via use-livecode Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2022 11:11 AM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Bob Sneidar Subject: Re: lcb missing manual Also, when it comes to performance, developers should ask not only is it faster, but would anyone notice the difference? I used to say, "A computer only needs to be fast enough." Some will ask, "Fast enough for what?" To which I reply, "Now you are asking the right question." Bob S On Aug 31, 2022, at 21:54 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode > wrote: Agreed -- I've put off LCB because I don't much bother with widgets. I suppose I could update Navigator, but it already works well, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ So if it isn't faster, dare I say it, why would I? gc _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Sep 1 11:54:48 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 15:54:48 +0000 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: <97A503CE-34F0-4BA8-8CA8-C7E52E7A1364@iotecdigital.com> References: <16B11823-3348-421C-95A3-A8CF2A7170CA@iotecdigital.com> <5C7E50AF-B53A-4ED6-AD7B-2841FBE4A9CD@iotecdigital.com> <97A503CE-34F0-4BA8-8CA8-C7E52E7A1364@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: OK I'm well on my way to standardizing fonts. However I have run across a bit of an issue. Take the Google font Aclonica. On the MacOS it appears on the fonts menu in the property editor as Aclonica Regular. But on Windows it appears as simply Aclonica. That means if you assign the font using the Fonts menu on MacOS, the fonts WON'T RENDER on the PC. But if you type, "Aclonica" then it works on both platforms. The workaround is to type the name of the font (in this case Aclonica) without the Regular instead of using the Fonts menu in the property editor. BTW the Fonts menu in the Property Editor needs a major facelift! You cannot hot-type to get to the font you want or even near it. Scrolling is a pain. If I start using a font file while the property editor is open, the new font will not appear until I close and re-open the property editor. Bleh. Anyway I'll get around to an enhancement request soon. Bob S > On Aug 31, 2022, at 08:27 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > Okay I see there are a butt-ton of them and must be downloaded individually. They can be had at fonts.com. I already found one I like for my module headers! > > Bob S > > > On Aug 31, 2022, at 08:17 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode > wrote: > > Great idea! I looked for a download link for the fonts, but all I can find are github links to the source code (I don't want to have to build out all the fonts if that's what that is) and other sources for font downloaders and synchs. Is there anywhere I can just download the OTF files? > > Bob S > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Sep 1 13:06:55 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 10:06:55 -0700 Subject: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <951cdea0-756c-3d78-97f4-448ee7baa13f@fourthworld.com> Geoff Canyon wrote: > I've put off LCB because I don't much bother with widgets. > I suppose I could update Navigator, but it already works well, > so \_()_/ > > So if it isn't faster, dare I say it, why would I? Foreign Function Interface, and certain custom control needs. In short, the language choice hierarchy seems to be: - Use LC Script wherever you can. - If you need FFI or have specific rendering/packaging needs for shared components beyond what custom group-based controls offer, use LC Builder. - If raw CPU speed is absolutely critical, consider externals. Kevin said this more eloquently back around the time LC Builder premiered: I think this is a really important principal. Always use the highest level language you can for any given project. Offering that very high level language option is a big part of LiveCode's reason for being. Previously our primary choices were between LiveCode Script and a lower level language such as C. Now we have a third choice, an intermediate LiveCode Builder. Its much faster than C but slower than Script. It is going to excel at certain tasks. However we should always choose to use it only when it offers clear advantages above LiveCode Script for the project that outweigh the extra level of effort needed to use it. I know its very tempting having added a whole new language to build everything in that, but we must carefully resist that temptation and use it judiciously, only for what it is best at. http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2015-August/217849.html -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Sep 1 13:31:39 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 17:31:39 +0000 Subject: Stylistic question. In-Reply-To: References: <1818ceeb0b0.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <990BFD28-D609-4498-9DF0-A80E605861C4@iotecdigital.com> by Navigator I was put off by Navigator at first, mainly because it was able to do a LOT, and I was looking for an easy answer to a complex problem: How to set properties for objects in a much more intuitive way that the LC Property Editor. Once I started using it however, I cannot imagine how I lived without it. I don't think I am going too far to say that it is in the top 3 most useful interface enhancements ever developed in LC. I will however ask for just one enhancement: If I am filtering the list and have an item or items selected, and then I clear the filter, it also clears the selection. It would be great if the selection could be maintained or restored. Bob S From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Thu Sep 1 13:32:12 2022 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 13:32:12 -0400 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <816C27F1-2EFD-47F9-A507-46245A41158A@gmail.com> <69F805E3-DF6D-4403-BE3E-84CAB718344B@milby7.com> Message-ID: <003801d8be28$c8632660$59297320$@net> I took a major stab at LCB and created a new widget based on the navbar widget. I have made 2 changes to the navbar and call it navrad. It does not modify the stock navbar. With almost no docs it was a challenge. There were so many unknowns I got a few giant headaches. It adds 4 new properties(iconFill,autoRADHilite,preHilitedItem, preHilitedItemName) and 1 new message(preHiliteChanged). I updated the documentation so the new properties and message show in the dictionary with example(search for "navrad" or just "rad"). One thing I ran into was that I had to call the "autohilite" property autoRADHilite because using any existing property causes a confilict that I could not get around without sufficient docs. It does show in the property inspector as "auto hilite". These changes allow 1)enlarge/center the icon if there is no label 2)intercept a selection before it is hilited and make a choice to hilite and send the stock hiliteChanged message (or not). Why no label? For one social media icons don’t need labels. Why a pre message? Someone suggested it and I thought it was a great idea. Backwards compatible with existing navbar LCS code. The was an auto sizing to card width request. I will look to see if I can do it without more docs(or help). If anyone would like to try it and find any bugs it's at ==> https://www.dropbox.com/s/51zm4m8dip49jov/com.livecode.widget.navrad.2.0.0.lce?dl=0 Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net From sean at pidigital.co.uk Thu Sep 1 14:25:50 2022 From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Sean Cole) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 19:25:50 +0100 Subject: Livecode / Github In-Reply-To: References: <9ECE2480-BAAB-4E8A-B97D-70F2153A91C3@pidigital.co.uk> <8b549acf-8e33-a468-d7e8-3c1fa6ce7c34@sonic.net> <56eb98b4-b369-aefa-54d3-eb12f220b87c@sonic.net> <3ba1188d-59d4-c5d7-3f8e-262529b5ccfc@sonic.net> Message-ID: I managed to get the stack and all substacks to export finally. There was an issue with an old extension library two of the stacks use (Chart Maker) so just removed the stacks for now and all ported properly. Now, it occurs to me that this is all well and good, but there is a lack of instruction on how to make use of it now. How do you link it to something like GitHub or some other external or local server? How do we collaborate with other users? How will they know which scripts are which when they only see a folder full or GUIDs? I 'think' these are valid questions. Or maybe I'm just stupid or missed something somewhere. By the way, here is an update to the plugin code: global gLastObject on savingProperties pLongId, @pProperteis // I'm loving all the typos like pProperteis - Really rushed out the door. put "saving properties of" && pLongId into gLastObject put gLastObject wait 0.001 millisec with messages end savingProperties on savingScript pLongId, @pScript put "saving script of" && pLongId into gLastObject put gLastObject wait 0.001 millisec with messages end savingScript Sean On Thu, 1 Sept 2022 at 05:08, Sean Cole wrote: > Yeah, I could really do with it giving me some feedback as to where this > object is. Actually, I could... > ... I just wrote a plugin for it. Use scCreatePlugin "","" (scCreatePlugin > on its own doesn't work from the message box like the dictionary suggests). > Then in the script I used > > global gLastObject > > on savingProperties pLongId, @pProperteis > --> your code > put "saving properties of" && pLongId into gLastObject > put word -2 to -1 of gLastObject > wait 0.01 millisec with messages > end savingProperties > > ---- > > Once I ran this it displayed which substack it was working on in the > message box and once it had failed the global showed me the last parameter > it had successfully accessed. Cool. But I still can't work out which > parameter of either that object (a standard text field) or the next (a > group with no behaviours or anything out of the ordinary as far as I can > tell). I'll come back to it tomorrow. It's silly o'clock now. > > Sean > > On Wed, 31 Aug 2022 at 17:13, Mark Wieder via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> On 8/31/22 03:00, Sean Cole via use-livecode wrote: >> >> > LC Team: :-) It would be REALLY handy if proper errors were thrown when >> one >> > occurs that can help us easily understand what the issues are. Also, if >> > prior to release documentation were gone through to make sure they are >> > legible. And if plugins released actually work as described. :-) >> >> Actually, it's even worse. >> The result is empty if no error occurred and "* successful" if it >> worked. To me that seems backwards. >> >> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23911 >> >> -- >> Mark Wieder >> ahsoftware at gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > From brian at milby7.com Thu Sep 1 15:13:36 2022 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 15:13:36 -0400 Subject: Livecode / Github In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <025EAAAC-94C8-4F4C-A161-36F240D7E4A8@milby7.com> Here is the workflow that I think is intended: Export stack to files Commit files to GitHub or other VCS — Fetch/pull latest from GitHub Import stack from files Make changes Export stack to files Commit changes to GitHub — At any point changes between branches can be merged due to structure of exports so you could have parallel development happening. Brian Milby brian at milby7.com > On Sep 1, 2022, at 2:27 PM, Sean Cole via use-livecode wrote: > > I managed to get the stack and all substacks to export finally. There was > an issue with an old extension library two of the stacks use (Chart Maker) > so just removed the stacks for now and all ported properly. > > Now, it occurs to me that this is all well and good, but there is a lack of > instruction on how to make use of it now. How do you link it to something > like GitHub or some other external or local server? How do we collaborate > with other users? How will they know which scripts are which when they only > see a folder full or GUIDs? > > I 'think' these are valid questions. Or maybe I'm just stupid or missed > something somewhere. > > By the way, here is an update to the plugin code: > global gLastObject > > on savingProperties pLongId, @pProperteis > // I'm loving all the typos like pProperteis - Really rushed out the > door. > put "saving properties of" && pLongId into gLastObject > put gLastObject > wait 0.001 millisec with messages > end savingProperties > > on savingScript pLongId, @pScript > put "saving script of" && pLongId into gLastObject > put gLastObject > wait 0.001 millisec with messages > end savingScript > > Sean > >> On Thu, 1 Sept 2022 at 05:08, Sean Cole wrote: >> >> Yeah, I could really do with it giving me some feedback as to where this >> object is. Actually, I could... >> ... I just wrote a plugin for it. Use scCreatePlugin "","" (scCreatePlugin >> on its own doesn't work from the message box like the dictionary suggests). >> Then in the script I used >> >> global gLastObject >> >> on savingProperties pLongId, @pProperteis >> --> your code >> put "saving properties of" && pLongId into gLastObject >> put word -2 to -1 of gLastObject >> wait 0.01 millisec with messages >> end savingProperties >> >> ---- >> >> Once I ran this it displayed which substack it was working on in the >> message box and once it had failed the global showed me the last parameter >> it had successfully accessed. Cool. But I still can't work out which >> parameter of either that object (a standard text field) or the next (a >> group with no behaviours or anything out of the ordinary as far as I can >> tell). I'll come back to it tomorrow. It's silly o'clock now. >> >> Sean >> >> On Wed, 31 Aug 2022 at 17:13, Mark Wieder via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>>> On 8/31/22 03:00, Sean Cole via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>>> LC Team: :-) It would be REALLY handy if proper errors were thrown when >>> one >>>> occurs that can help us easily understand what the issues are. Also, if >>>> prior to release documentation were gone through to make sure they are >>>> legible. And if plugins released actually work as described. :-) >>> >>> Actually, it's even worse. >>> The result is empty if no error occurred and "* successful" if it >>> worked. To me that seems backwards. >>> >>> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23911 >>> >>> -- >>> Mark Wieder >>> ahsoftware at gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Sep 1 15:25:34 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 19:25:34 +0000 Subject: propertyChanged message Message-ID: <21EE8FB7-D2D3-45A6-A95F-844F542EA5BE@iotecdigital.com> Hi all. I would like to see a propertyChanged message implemented that gets sent to any object when any of it's properties change. There could even be two messages, one for built-in properies and another for custom properties. Imagine being able to change the font or size of a particular object, and then having all the other objects that "subscribed" to that object's font or size property ALSO have their fonts change. It would then be possible to build a kind of Object Oriented environment. What say you? Bob S From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Sep 1 15:27:28 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 19:27:28 +0000 Subject: propertyChanged message In-Reply-To: <21EE8FB7-D2D3-45A6-A95F-844F542EA5BE@iotecdigital.com> References: <21EE8FB7-D2D3-45A6-A95F-844F542EA5BE@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23917 > On Sep 1, 2022, at 12:25 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi all. > > I would like to see a propertyChanged message implemented that gets sent to any object when any of it's properties change. There could even be two messages, one for built-in properies and another for custom properties. > > Imagine being able to change the font or size of a particular object, and then having all the other objects that "subscribed" to that object's font or size property ALSO have their fonts change. It would then be possible to build a kind of Object Oriented environment. What say you? > > Bob S > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ahsoftware at sonic.net Thu Sep 1 16:23:14 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 13:23:14 -0700 Subject: propertyChanged message In-Reply-To: <21EE8FB7-D2D3-45A6-A95F-844F542EA5BE@iotecdigital.com> References: <21EE8FB7-D2D3-45A6-A95F-844F542EA5BE@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <5a8dfc34-34c2-3a10-ea87-9d240e2f4860@sonic.net> On 9/1/22 12:25, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > Hi all. > > I would like to see a propertyChanged message implemented that gets sent to any object when any of it's properties change. There could even be two messages, one for built-in properies and another for custom properties. > > Imagine being able to change the font or size of a particular object, and then having all the other objects that "subscribed" to that object's font or size property ALSO have their fonts change. It would then be possible to build a kind of Object Oriented environment. What say you? Why not just use the built-in hierarchy?: change the textfont of the parent object and all the child object automatically get the change. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Sep 1 16:33:39 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 15:33:39 -0500 Subject: Text to speech Message-ID: <1208fc7b-7f41-131f-5767-d26ada36f378@hyperactivesw.com> What library/commands do you use for text to speech? I see that revSpeak works on Windows and Mac, and the speech library ("speech*") works on android, iOS, and Mac. What do you use if you want to support all four platforms? Do you just branch to revSpeak for Windows? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Sep 1 16:34:54 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 20:34:54 +0000 Subject: propertyChanged message In-Reply-To: <5a8dfc34-34c2-3a10-ea87-9d240e2f4860@sonic.net> References: <21EE8FB7-D2D3-45A6-A95F-844F542EA5BE@iotecdigital.com> <5a8dfc34-34c2-3a10-ea87-9d240e2f4860@sonic.net> Message-ID: <8EF7D978-7EAA-4541-9128-BB426AC43F89@iotecdigital.com> Because there are a lot of parent objects for one, and changing the mainstack default font would change EVERYTHING. What I had in mind was a label type that I could create subtypes from, then instance from those. For example I use label fields for a form header, subheaders for datagrids, subheaders for multiline text fields, and of course labels for single line fields. Each one of those have common font, size, style, margins, alignments etc. For if I had a main class called Labels, then a subclass for each of those mentioned, then instances off each depending on the use, I could effectively change a property of a subclass and only the instances of that subclass would change, and only the properties of that subclass that were defined in that subclass. Visual Foxpro used to do (and probably still does) a very similar thing. It makes design 10 times faster, especially when you want to play around with different looks and feels. Could I just group all the objects on a form for a specific subclass? Sure, but I use groups for other things. I group a field and it's label so I can move them as one. I group certain objects so I can show and hide groups on a form depending on which tab was selected and so on. Also, only that group or card would change, and not other cards and stacks etc. One new message, propertyChanged would revolutionize the way design was done in LC. Bob S On Sep 1, 2022, at 13:23 , Mark Wieder via use-livecode > wrote: On 9/1/22 12:25, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: Hi all. I would like to see a propertyChanged message implemented that gets sent to any object when any of it's properties change. There could even be two messages, one for built-in properies and another for custom properties. Imagine being able to change the font or size of a particular object, and then having all the other objects that "subscribed" to that object's font or size property ALSO have their fonts change. It would then be possible to build a kind of Object Oriented environment. What say you? Why not just use the built-in hierarchy?: change the textfont of the parent object and all the child object automatically get the change. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Sep 1 16:40:26 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 20:40:26 +0000 Subject: propertyChanged message In-Reply-To: <8EF7D978-7EAA-4541-9128-BB426AC43F89@iotecdigital.com> References: <21EE8FB7-D2D3-45A6-A95F-844F542EA5BE@iotecdigital.com> <5a8dfc34-34c2-3a10-ea87-9d240e2f4860@sonic.net> <8EF7D978-7EAA-4541-9128-BB426AC43F89@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <25C7D47D-35DA-4D64-B6F8-1BFC08AD98ED@iotecdigital.com> Should have read, For INSTANCE, if I had a main class called Labels... On Sep 1, 2022, at 13:34 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode > wrote: For if I had a main class called Labels, From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Sep 1 16:42:04 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 13:42:04 -0700 Subject: propertyChanged message In-Reply-To: <21EE8FB7-D2D3-45A6-A95F-844F542EA5BE@iotecdigital.com> References: <21EE8FB7-D2D3-45A6-A95F-844F542EA5BE@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <721b6787-c546-d981-0cbe-cabe4651808d@fourthworld.com> Bob Sneidar wrote: > I would like to see a propertyChanged message implemented that gets > sent to any object when any of it's properties change. There could > even be two messages, one for built-in properies and another for > custom properties. I like the idea (I'd love messages for all sorts of things), but conversations with Dr Raney remind me of the impact messages have on overall performance. There are probably super-smart ways to implement things that don't have the drag on performance that mouseStillDown once imposed, or the limitations eventually placed on it to keep it from being a persistent source of performance loss. But cleverness comes at a cost of its own, in design, implementation, testing... This is worth considering, but perhaps we can start with the use case - thank you for providing this one: > Imagine being able to change the font or size of a particular object, > and then having all the other objects that "subscribed" to that > object's font or size property ALSO have their fonts change. It would > then be possible to build a kind of Object Oriented environment. OOP systems are largely defined by their object model. In LC's stack/card/control model, visual properties are inherited, so changing once at the stack level allows everything downstream to reflect the change, no code needed at all. I can see cases where it would be nice to have CSS-like classes, where we could define style properties in one place and have everything assigned to use that set of properties automatically reflect changes. I believe that level of style-sheet-like flexibility is something Mark Waddingham may have mentioned before. Bonus if it could use actual CSS syntax as an *option*, so newcomers can jump in quickly and old-timers can choose whether to enjoy the compactness of CSS or the completeness of LC Script, "set the x of y to x". There are of course ways to do things like this using custom props, and I'll go out on a limb to try to channel Dr Raney on this, based on conversation I'd had with him about messages: "Show me a use case where it's not possible to get what you need from a custom message, and I'll consider a way to override built-in messages." His concern with messages was two-fold: - Performance: the open-ended mechanism needed to allow overriding adds overhead to setting up the calling change each time the context changes, and sometimes during execution. - Consistency: it creates a world of unpredictability, where simply using someone's library can alter messages you've been relying on for years. I believe both of those can be seen as relevant to property changes. And with that view, one attempt to satisfy this is provided with virtual properties: getProp and setProp. Using custom prop names for custom behavior ensures that the built-in names will always reliably do what you expect, while still leaving open a boundless universe of options for custom behavior, simply by calling it via a custom name. Within a getProp or setProp handler, one can get and set any number of built-in properties, and also custom properties, and call commands and functions, and set properties of other objects, and do just about anything LC Script allows. Very powerful. I know you're already very familiar with getProp and setProp, as are most of the readers here. So I'm not re-introducing them to be pedantic, or to gatekeep your request. I'm merely trying to understand your request in terms of real-world development needs. So to help my understanding, I'll pose to you a variation of what Raney posed to me: "What are you working on that can't be done by having custom property handling accomplished via custom property names?" -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From paul at researchware.com Thu Sep 1 16:43:07 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 16:43:07 -0400 Subject: Text to speech In-Reply-To: <1208fc7b-7f41-131f-5767-d26ada36f378@hyperactivesw.com> References: <1208fc7b-7f41-131f-5767-d26ada36f378@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <17eef8bf-c4f2-c828-a5fb-1af24dd66f8f@researchware.com> On 9/1/2022 4:33 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > What library/commands do you use for text to speech? I see that > revSpeak works on Windows and Mac, and the speech library ("speech*") > works on android, iOS, and Mac. What do you use if you want to support > all four platforms? Do you just branch to revSpeak for Windows? > I think Panos just shows how to build a common text to speech library for all platforms from these two built-in in a recent Livecode Global problem solving session. From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Sep 1 17:21:42 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2022 16:21:42 -0500 Subject: Text to speech In-Reply-To: <17eef8bf-c4f2-c828-a5fb-1af24dd66f8f@researchware.com> References: <1208fc7b-7f41-131f-5767-d26ada36f378@hyperactivesw.com> <17eef8bf-c4f2-c828-a5fb-1af24dd66f8f@researchware.com> Message-ID: <182faee5e70.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Thank you. I keep missing the conferences and I need to watch them later. Do you happen to recall which one it was? It sounds like exactly what I'm looking for. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On September 1, 2022 3:44:56 PM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > On 9/1/2022 4:33 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >> What library/commands do you use for text to speech? I see that >> revSpeak works on Windows and Mac, and the speech library ("speech*") >> works on android, iOS, and Mac. What do you use if you want to support >> all four platforms? Do you just branch to revSpeak for Windows? >> > > I think Panos just shows how to build a common text to speech library > for all platforms from these two built-in in a recent Livecode Global > problem solving session. > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Thu Sep 1 17:35:05 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 17:35:05 -0400 Subject: Text to speech In-Reply-To: <182faee5e70.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <1208fc7b-7f41-131f-5767-d26ada36f378@hyperactivesw.com> <17eef8bf-c4f2-c828-a5fb-1af24dd66f8f@researchware.com> <182faee5e70.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: I think it was the July Problem solving session, but it could have been August's. I think July 14th's session. On 9/1/2022 5:21 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > Thank you. I keep missing the conferences and I need to watch them > later. Do you happen to recall which one it was? It sounds like > exactly what I'm looking for. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > On September 1, 2022 3:44:56 PM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode > wrote: > >> On 9/1/2022 4:33 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >>> What library/commands do you use for text to speech? I see that >>> revSpeak works on Windows and Mac, and the speech library ("speech*") >>> works on android, iOS, and Mac. What do you use if you want to support >>> all four platforms? Do you just branch to revSpeak for Windows? >>> >> >> I think Panos just shows how to build a common text to speech library >> for all platforms from these two built-in in a recent Livecode Global >> problem solving session. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From sean at pidigital.co.uk Thu Sep 1 17:38:18 2022 From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Pi Digital) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 22:38:18 +0100 Subject: Livecode / Github In-Reply-To: <025EAAAC-94C8-4F4C-A161-36F240D7E4A8@milby7.com> References: <025EAAAC-94C8-4F4C-A161-36F240D7E4A8@milby7.com> Message-ID: <8C49E7B5-1FE1-463D-8733-39903AB09E19@pidigital.co.uk> Fab :D however, ‘how’ does one… (i) set up a GitHub (I know how, this is for the benefit of others), (ii) perform commits, push, pulls (perhaps using LC and having an LC library/widget for this would be best), (iii) merge to a branch, (iv) switch branches All the while making it simple for even the most beginner of beginners to understand, like everything else in LC *Should be? It’s like giving us the front door but the hallway floor is missing. There is no guide on real world usage so we are left stranded with it. Here’s the actual situation myself and my colleague face. At the moment one of us works on the app, makes some changes, zips it up, and posts it up to a server. Then the other does the same ad infinitum. But what you have described is not much different. How can we really tell who made changes unless we know the uid for the script or card (for layout) or object? And are we all supposed to now become command line experts to manage an svc? I’m puzzled at the moment. It shows great promise, but it’s still not fully ready, is it. It’s usable, like LCB, if you can do lower level stuff. But not many using LC are able, hence why they use LC. Everything LC, and I mean everything, that is front end for LC users *Should, note, Should be High Level and easy to code & understand. The plug-in language for SmartCrumbs is dreamy. Thank you whoever came up with that. I love it! LCB is a nightmare and could have been done so much better - much more in line with the HyperCard principle. Sean Cole Pi > On 1 Sep 2022, at 20:13, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote: > > Here is the workflow that I think is intended: > > Export stack to files > Commit files to GitHub or other VCS > — > Fetch/pull latest from GitHub > Import stack from files > Make changes > Export stack to files > Commit changes to GitHub > — > At any point changes between branches can be merged due to structure of exports so you could have parallel development happening. > > Brian Milby > brian at milby7.com > >> On Sep 1, 2022, at 2:27 PM, Sean Cole via use-livecode wrote: >> >> I managed to get the stack and all substacks to export finally. There was >> an issue with an old extension library two of the stacks use (Chart Maker) >> so just removed the stacks for now and all ported properly. >> >> Now, it occurs to me that this is all well and good, but there is a lack of >> instruction on how to make use of it now. How do you link it to something >> like GitHub or some other external or local server? How do we collaborate >> with other users? How will they know which scripts are which when they only >> see a folder full or GUIDs? >> >> I 'think' these are valid questions. Or maybe I'm just stupid or missed >> something somewhere. >> >> By the way, here is an update to the plugin code: >> global gLastObject >> >> on savingProperties pLongId, @pProperteis >> // I'm loving all the typos like pProperteis - Really rushed out the >> door. >> put "saving properties of" && pLongId into gLastObject >> put gLastObject >> wait 0.001 millisec with messages >> end savingProperties >> >> on savingScript pLongId, @pScript >> put "saving script of" && pLongId into gLastObject >> put gLastObject >> wait 0.001 millisec with messages >> end savingScript >> >> Sean >> >>>> On Thu, 1 Sept 2022 at 05:08, Sean Cole wrote: >>> >>> Yeah, I could really do with it giving me some feedback as to where this >>> object is. Actually, I could... >>> ... I just wrote a plugin for it. Use scCreatePlugin "","" (scCreatePlugin >>> on its own doesn't work from the message box like the dictionary suggests). >>> Then in the script I used >>> >>> global gLastObject >>> >>> on savingProperties pLongId, @pProperteis >>> --> your code >>> put "saving properties of" && pLongId into gLastObject >>> put word -2 to -1 of gLastObject >>> wait 0.01 millisec with messages >>> end savingProperties >>> >>> ---- >>> >>> Once I ran this it displayed which substack it was working on in the >>> message box and once it had failed the global showed me the last parameter >>> it had successfully accessed. Cool. But I still can't work out which >>> parameter of either that object (a standard text field) or the next (a >>> group with no behaviours or anything out of the ordinary as far as I can >>> tell). I'll come back to it tomorrow. It's silly o'clock now. >>> >>> Sean >>> >>> On Wed, 31 Aug 2022 at 17:13, Mark Wieder via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>>>> On 8/31/22 03:00, Sean Cole via use-livecode wrote: >>>> >>>>> LC Team: :-) It would be REALLY handy if proper errors were thrown when >>>> one >>>>> occurs that can help us easily understand what the issues are. Also, if >>>>> prior to release documentation were gone through to make sure they are >>>>> legible. And if plugins released actually work as described. :-) >>>> >>>> Actually, it's even worse. >>>> The result is empty if no error occurred and "* successful" if it >>>> worked. To me that seems backwards. >>>> >>>> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23911 >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Mark Wieder >>>> ahsoftware at gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ahsoftware at sonic.net Thu Sep 1 17:43:40 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 14:43:40 -0700 Subject: Livecode / Github In-Reply-To: References: <9ECE2480-BAAB-4E8A-B97D-70F2153A91C3@pidigital.co.uk> <8b549acf-8e33-a468-d7e8-3c1fa6ce7c34@sonic.net> <56eb98b4-b369-aefa-54d3-eb12f220b87c@sonic.net> <3ba1188d-59d4-c5d7-3f8e-262529b5ccfc@sonic.net> Message-ID: <14ef8a68-f71e-0ae6-c7d6-cee5a15ede7a@sonic.net> On 9/1/22 11:25, Sean Cole via use-livecode wrote: > By the way, here is an update to the plugin code: Sean- good news that you got it working. How in the world did you manage that? I went through what I think are the right steps: scCreatePlugin "","" edit and save plugin code scInstallPlugin pPath scEnabledPlugin pPath scListPlugins() --- nothing (no array keys) scGetPathLog() --- recursion limit reached -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From sean at pidigital.co.uk Thu Sep 1 18:16:44 2022 From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Pi Digital) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 23:16:44 +0100 Subject: Livecode / Github In-Reply-To: <14ef8a68-f71e-0ae6-c7d6-cee5a15ede7a@sonic.net> References: <14ef8a68-f71e-0ae6-c7d6-cee5a15ede7a@sonic.net> Message-ID: <1C309D51-E467-41BB-8282-F0E7F9D36997@pidigital.co.uk> I don’t know who coded it but it really does not follow the standard LC conventions. I am going to assume it was someone external to LC so will cut them a huge bit of slack. It’s also very clear English is not their first language so they did pretty well considering. Here are the steps Create a new plug-in file using scCreatePlugin “”,”” This will first ask for a name and then for a folder location to put it. I put it into the MyLivecode folder in a subfolder called SmartCrumbsPlugins Edit the code as needed and save. Make sure to ONLY do this in LC, not Atom or another text editor. Next, use scInstallPlugin “” This will ask which plug-in to load Then scEnabledPlugin “myPlugin” where myPlugin is the name you have given it, which is not necessarily the same as the file name. This will make sure it is running the next time any SmartCrumbs import/export operation is performed. To find which plugins are installed and enabled, use put the keys of scListPlugins (“All”) To find the path where the logs are saved, use put scGetPathLog(“”) or put scGetPathLog() Either will work Sean Cole Pi Digital Productions Ltd eMail Ts & Cs > On 1 Sep 2022, at 22:43, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > > On 9/1/22 11:25, Sean Cole via use-livecode wrote: > >> By the way, here is an update to the plugin code: > > Sean- good news that you got it working. How in the world did you manage that? I went through what I think are the right steps: > > scCreatePlugin "","" > edit and save plugin code > scInstallPlugin pPath > scEnabledPlugin pPath > scListPlugins() --- nothing (no array keys) > scGetPathLog() --- recursion limit reached > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ahsoftware at sonic.net Thu Sep 1 18:48:47 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 15:48:47 -0700 Subject: Livecode / Github In-Reply-To: <1C309D51-E467-41BB-8282-F0E7F9D36997@pidigital.co.uk> References: <14ef8a68-f71e-0ae6-c7d6-cee5a15ede7a@sonic.net> <1C309D51-E467-41BB-8282-F0E7F9D36997@pidigital.co.uk> Message-ID: <9c8f45ac-f894-62cf-a318-6a1c3553f36c@sonic.net> On 9/1/22 15:16, Pi Digital via use-livecode wrote: > Here are the steps Yep. Exactly what I did. Oh well. \_ ()_/ -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From sean at pidigital.co.uk Thu Sep 1 18:55:25 2022 From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Pi Digital) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 23:55:25 +0100 Subject: Livecode / Github In-Reply-To: <9c8f45ac-f894-62cf-a318-6a1c3553f36c@sonic.net> References: <9c8f45ac-f894-62cf-a318-6a1c3553f36c@sonic.net> Message-ID: <426260FD-18BC-48A1-987F-E578E58E904B@pidigital.co.uk> LC9.6.7? Sean Cole Pi Digital Productions Ltd eMail Ts & Cs > On 1 Sep 2022, at 23:48, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > > On 9/1/22 15:16, Pi Digital via use-livecode wrote: > >> Here are the steps > > Yep. Exactly what I did. > Oh well. ¯\_ (ツ)_/¯ > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ahsoftware at sonic.net Thu Sep 1 19:18:28 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 16:18:28 -0700 Subject: Livecode / Github In-Reply-To: <426260FD-18BC-48A1-987F-E578E58E904B@pidigital.co.uk> References: <9c8f45ac-f894-62cf-a318-6a1c3553f36c@sonic.net> <426260FD-18BC-48A1-987F-E578E58E904B@pidigital.co.uk> Message-ID: <7fc73425-9234-a8d2-d6c8-449625defc7a@sonic.net> On 9/1/22 15:55, Pi Digital via use-livecode wrote: > LC9.6.7? 9.6.9rc1 -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Sep 1 20:18:15 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 00:18:15 +0000 Subject: propertyChanged message In-Reply-To: <721b6787-c546-d981-0cbe-cabe4651808d@fourthworld.com> References: <21EE8FB7-D2D3-45A6-A95F-844F542EA5BE@iotecdigital.com> <721b6787-c546-d981-0cbe-cabe4651808d@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: As I see it working in my head, property changes, at least built in properties, would typically only be triggered in the IDE. Custom properties are another matter. Set those aside f or a moment. If we are only talking about built in properties, then the message would almost never get sent unless the developer was doing design work. And if the message never got handled, it would just fall through the message path. Not sure what kind of performance overhead that implies, but it can't be much in the scope of making changes to object properties while designing. Heck, just open the message watcher with IDE messages enabled, and the messages going by are so voluminous clicking something clears the buffer before you can see what just happened. :-) In regards to "another way to do it" I suppose an entire utility stack and library could be written and objects subscribing to classes and subclasses would simply register themselves with the utility stack, but that would mean the utility stack would be the focus of any design changes. If the developer made any out of band changes to any object that was subscribed to a subclass, how would he know? But if a propertyChanged message was sent to the object, the developer handling the message could be alerted that the property was inherited from a subclass and he is about to override it. There is no present way to accomplish this. So IMHO performance would not be an issue if custom properties were excluded from the process, or if two different messages were sent, one for custom properties and one for built in, leaving it up to the developer which to handle. Also I think that if properly implemented, it would add even more consistency to the design process. The message could be one of those that can be handled without blocking it, so I don't think it would necessarily interfere with other libraries that depended on the messages. I see your point with CSS. That would be viable if the only properties we wanted to inherit were able to be defined with CSS. I don't know much about CSS, but if all the aspects of an object could be addressed in this way, and if modifying the Style Sheet would cascade down to all the objects using it, then I suppose that would accomplish the same thing. Bob S On Sep 1, 2022, at 13:42 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode > wrote: Bob Sneidar wrote: > I would like to see a propertyChanged message implemented that gets > sent to any object when any of it's properties change. There could > even be two messages, one for built-in properies and another for > custom properties. I like the idea (I'd love messages for all sorts of things), but conversations with Dr Raney remind me of the impact messages have on overall performance. From ahsoftware at sonic.net Thu Sep 1 21:03:49 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 18:03:49 -0700 Subject: Livecode / Github In-Reply-To: <426260FD-18BC-48A1-987F-E578E58E904B@pidigital.co.uk> References: <9c8f45ac-f894-62cf-a318-6a1c3553f36c@sonic.net> <426260FD-18BC-48A1-987F-E578E58E904B@pidigital.co.uk> Message-ID: <5495add8-b356-ddb9-e934-ee09f27e946e@sonic.net> Got it figured out. It just doesn't work on linux. On OSX when executing scEnabledPlugin I get the error A stack with the same name as ... Before loading /Users//Documents/My LiveCode/SmartCrumbsVCW/extensions... what do you want to do with stack: /Users//Downloads/smartCrumbs/... So it looks like scInstallPlugin installs a copy of the plugin into a *very* specific hardcoded directory, no matter where I placed the source to start with. And no doubt calls specialFolderPath("documents") in order to figure out where that should be.... and of course that call doesn't work on linux, so it probably just gives up silently. I'm guessing the correct call should really be to revEnvironmentUserPluginsPath(). Not going to bother filing a bug on this. I rather expect LC to drop linux support any day now anyway. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From brian at milby7.com Thu Sep 1 21:24:33 2022 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 21:24:33 -0400 Subject: Livecode / Github In-Reply-To: <8C49E7B5-1FE1-463D-8733-39903AB09E19@pidigital.co.uk> References: <025EAAAC-94C8-4F4C-A161-36F240D7E4A8@milby7.com> <8C49E7B5-1FE1-463D-8733-39903AB09E19@pidigital.co.uk> Message-ID: I think some of this is a bit too much to address in a list post. I'll make some comments though. (i) Make a repo at https://github.com; https://www.atlassian.com/git/tutorials/setting-up-a-repository; you can view tons of docs at https://docs.github.com/en (ii)-(iv) I use https://www.sourcetreeapp.com (Mac and Win app available) to manage my repos (many other options available). They also have other tutorials at https://www.atlassian.com/git When you create a GitHub repository currently, it will make a default branch called "main". Initially you would take your stack and commit (really another word for "save") to the main branch. If you had 2 developers that were working on the same stack at the same time, then one way would be to have 2 branches off of main. Let's say "brian" and "sean" for example. So each of us would check out our branch (initially the same as main). We would make any changes we needed and each would commit to our own branch. When whatever we are working on is ready to incorporate into the product, we would merge our branch into the main branch. Since everything is text files (except for the images and other binary resources like that), git can detect which pieces have changed and integrate them together. So instead of a zip going back and forth of the full project, the individual changes would be tracked and integrated. The biggest difference is that multiple developers can work on the same stack at the same time and have their changes integrated together. The down side that I do see with this implementation is that it is difficult to know what object is being changed. Since everything is stored by GUID it can be hard to know what is being updated by looking at the commit logs. Due to the Mac CR issue, I probably won't be able to do much for demonstrating how it works until there is a good workaround (I guess I could manually convert the JSON each time for now). I did fix the JSON file on my ScriptTracker repo so it could be viewed on GitHub. I need to make a change to a script that hasn't been fixed to see how it shows up. The JSON fix showed pretty much as a whole new file (line 1 was updated to lines 1-1000+). My approach with ScriptTracker is a bit different. First is that my tool is much more limited (just does the scripts). But, my tool adds a bit of information to the header of each exported script to give it context and the scripts are named by the object ID (mainly to avoid issues with illegal characters in the object name). It might be something that could be done with plugins to add some info to the JSON and script files. I'll need to take a look - it would make working with the scripts easier. For the JSON, I think it may be helpful to have full object names included with the GUID so you have more of an idea what was changed when looking at the diff. Also, if you just want to track your changes (and not work with another dev to merge), it does get a bit easier. Then you don't even need to use a server (GitHub) but can run git completely on your seat. The same GUI tools mentioned above can be used there as well. Command line tools are there but not required. As I mentioned above, I use a GUI for just about all of my git usage. They make it easy to see what happened and when. Hopefully this helps a little. I think there are a couple of videos from conferences over the past few years covering Git. I know that there is at least one that I did (but it was targeted at building LC from source). Thanks, Brian On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 5:39 PM Pi Digital via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Fab :D > > however, ‘how’ does one… > (i) set up a GitHub (I know how, this is for the benefit of others), > (ii) perform commits, push, pulls (perhaps using LC and having an LC > library/widget for this would be best), > (iii) merge to a branch, > (iv) switch branches > All the while making it simple for even the most beginner of beginners to > understand, like everything else in LC *Should be? > > It’s like giving us the front door but the hallway floor is missing. > > There is no guide on real world usage so we are left stranded with it. > > Here’s the actual situation myself and my colleague face. At the moment > one of us works on the app, makes some changes, zips it up, and posts it up > to a server. Then the other does the same ad infinitum. > > But what you have described is not much different. How can we really tell > who made changes unless we know the uid for the script or card (for layout) > or object? And are we all supposed to now become command line experts to > manage an svc? I’m puzzled at the moment. > > It shows great promise, but it’s still not fully ready, is it. It’s > usable, like LCB, if you can do lower level stuff. But not many using LC > are able, hence why they use LC. Everything LC, and I mean everything, that > is front end for LC users *Should, note, Should be High Level and easy to > code & understand. The plug-in language for SmartCrumbs is dreamy. Thank > you whoever came up with that. I love it! LCB is a nightmare and could have > been done so much better - much more in line with the HyperCard principle. > > Sean Cole > Pi > > From brian at milby7.com Thu Sep 1 21:29:24 2022 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 21:29:24 -0400 Subject: Livecode / Github In-Reply-To: <5495add8-b356-ddb9-e934-ee09f27e946e@sonic.net> References: <9c8f45ac-f894-62cf-a318-6a1c3553f36c@sonic.net> <426260FD-18BC-48A1-987F-E578E58E904B@pidigital.co.uk> <5495add8-b356-ddb9-e934-ee09f27e946e@sonic.net> Message-ID: Actually, that is a bug that needs to be fixed. I don't have "My Livecode" running from my documents folder. So the extension itself is in the correct place, but all of the stuff it writes is in the wrong place. On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 9:04 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Got it figured out. It just doesn't work on linux. > > On OSX when executing scEnabledPlugin I get the error > > A stack with the same name as ... > Before loading /Users//Documents/My > LiveCode/SmartCrumbsVCW/extensions... > what do you want to do with stack: > /Users//Downloads/smartCrumbs/... > > So it looks like scInstallPlugin installs a copy of the plugin into a > *very* specific hardcoded directory, no matter where I placed the source > to start with. And no doubt calls specialFolderPath("documents") in > order to figure out where that should be.... and of course that call > doesn't work on linux, so it probably just gives up silently. I'm > guessing the correct call should really be to > revEnvironmentUserPluginsPath(). > > Not going to bother filing a bug on this. I rather expect LC to drop > linux support any day now anyway. > > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From sean at pidigital.co.uk Thu Sep 1 21:40:35 2022 From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Pi Digital) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 02:40:35 +0100 Subject: Livecode / Github In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9C0883F5-62DA-4179-B039-915398FF1C7E@pidigital.co.uk> Thanks Brian for your comprehensive response. What I meant was, though, that ‘ideally’ we need some instructions in the Guide and preferably a GUI for github and the like built into LC specifically for SmartCrumbs. That way the UIDs can be auto converted to the object names and laid out in filestruct format to make sense. Roundtripping to SourceTree or anything else is not really what we want, is it? Let me see if I get a chance to knock something up quickly over the weekend. I need to try out these new polylist and polygrid widgets anyway. Linking it to GitHub and remote servers shouldn’t be an issue. I understand how they work so I won’t have a problem. It just needs to be made much much simpler for others. Sean Cole Pi Digital Productions Ltd eMail Ts & Cs > On 2 Sep 2022, at 02:26, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote: > > I think some of this is a bit too much to address in a list post. I'll > make some comments though. > (i) Make a repo at https://github.com; > https://www.atlassian.com/git/tutorials/setting-up-a-repository; you can > view tons of docs at https://docs.github.com/en > (ii)-(iv) I use https://www.sourcetreeapp.com (Mac and Win app available) > to manage my repos (many other options available). They also have other > tutorials at https://www.atlassian.com/git > > When you create a GitHub repository currently, it will make a default > branch called "main". Initially you would take your stack and commit > (really another word for "save") to the main branch. If you had 2 > developers that were working on the same stack at the same time, then one > way would be to have 2 branches off of main. Let's say "brian" and "sean" > for example. So each of us would check out our branch (initially the same > as main). We would make any changes we needed and each would commit to our > own branch. When whatever we are working on is ready to incorporate into > the product, we would merge our branch into the main branch. Since > everything is text files (except for the images and other binary resources > like that), git can detect which pieces have changed and integrate them > together. So instead of a zip going back and forth of the full project, > the individual changes would be tracked and integrated. The biggest > difference is that multiple developers can work on the same stack at the > same time and have their changes integrated together. > > The down side that I do see with this implementation is that it is > difficult to know what object is being changed. Since everything is stored > by GUID it can be hard to know what is being updated by looking at the > commit logs. Due to the Mac CR issue, I probably won't be able to do much > for demonstrating how it works until there is a good workaround (I guess I > could manually convert the JSON each time for now). I did fix the JSON > file on my ScriptTracker repo so it could be viewed on GitHub. I need to > make a change to a script that hasn't been fixed to see how it shows up. > The JSON fix showed pretty much as a whole new file (line 1 was updated to > lines 1-1000+). > > My approach with ScriptTracker is a bit different. First is that my tool > is much more limited (just does the scripts). But, my tool adds a bit of > information to the header of each exported script to give it context and > the scripts are named by the object ID (mainly to avoid issues with illegal > characters in the object name). It might be something that could be done > with plugins to add some info to the JSON and script files. I'll need to > take a look - it would make working with the scripts easier. For the JSON, > I think it may be helpful to have full object names included with the GUID > so you have more of an idea what was changed when looking at the diff. > > Also, if you just want to track your changes (and not work with another dev > to merge), it does get a bit easier. Then you don't even need to use a > server (GitHub) but can run git completely on your seat. The same GUI > tools mentioned above can be used there as well. > > Command line tools are there but not required. As I mentioned above, I use > a GUI for just about all of my git usage. They make it easy to see what > happened and when. > > Hopefully this helps a little. I think there are a couple of videos from > conferences over the past few years covering Git. I know that there is at > least one that I did (but it was targeted at building LC from source). > > Thanks, > Brian > >> On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 5:39 PM Pi Digital via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >> Fab :D >> >> however, ‘how’ does one… >> (i) set up a GitHub (I know how, this is for the benefit of others), >> (ii) perform commits, push, pulls (perhaps using LC and having an LC >> library/widget for this would be best), >> (iii) merge to a branch, >> (iv) switch branches >> All the while making it simple for even the most beginner of beginners to >> understand, like everything else in LC *Should be? >> >> It’s like giving us the front door but the hallway floor is missing. >> >> There is no guide on real world usage so we are left stranded with it. >> >> Here’s the actual situation myself and my colleague face. At the moment >> one of us works on the app, makes some changes, zips it up, and posts it up >> to a server. Then the other does the same ad infinitum. >> >> But what you have described is not much different. How can we really tell >> who made changes unless we know the uid for the script or card (for layout) >> or object? And are we all supposed to now become command line experts to >> manage an svc? I’m puzzled at the moment. >> >> It shows great promise, but it’s still not fully ready, is it. It’s >> usable, like LCB, if you can do lower level stuff. But not many using LC >> are able, hence why they use LC. Everything LC, and I mean everything, that >> is front end for LC users *Should, note, Should be High Level and easy to >> code & understand. The plug-in language for SmartCrumbs is dreamy. Thank >> you whoever came up with that. I love it! LCB is a nightmare and could have >> been done so much better - much more in line with the HyperCard principle. >> >> Sean Cole >> Pi >> >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From brian at milby7.com Thu Sep 1 21:47:44 2022 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 21:47:44 -0400 Subject: Livecode / Github In-Reply-To: References: <9c8f45ac-f894-62cf-a318-6a1c3553f36c@sonic.net> <426260FD-18BC-48A1-987F-E578E58E904B@pidigital.co.uk> <5495add8-b356-ddb9-e934-ee09f27e946e@sonic.net> Message-ID: Mark, this is the same bug that you already filed: https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23910 On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 9:29 PM Brian Milby wrote: > Actually, that is a bug that needs to be fixed. I don't have "My > Livecode" running from my documents folder. So the extension itself is in > the correct place, but all of the stuff it writes is in the wrong place. > > On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 9:04 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Got it figured out. It just doesn't work on linux. >> >> On OSX when executing scEnabledPlugin I get the error >> >> A stack with the same name as ... >> Before loading /Users//Documents/My >> LiveCode/SmartCrumbsVCW/extensions... >> what do you want to do with stack: >> /Users//Downloads/smartCrumbs/... >> >> So it looks like scInstallPlugin installs a copy of the plugin into a >> *very* specific hardcoded directory, no matter where I placed the source >> to start with. And no doubt calls specialFolderPath("documents") in >> order to figure out where that should be.... and of course that call >> doesn't work on linux, so it probably just gives up silently. I'm >> guessing the correct call should really be to >> revEnvironmentUserPluginsPath(). >> >> Not going to bother filing a bug on this. I rather expect LC to drop >> linux support any day now anyway. >> >> >> -- >> Mark Wieder >> ahsoftware at gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > From brian at milby7.com Thu Sep 1 22:23:24 2022 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 22:23:24 -0400 Subject: Livecode / Github In-Reply-To: <9C0883F5-62DA-4179-B039-915398FF1C7E@pidigital.co.uk> References: <9C0883F5-62DA-4179-B039-915398FF1C7E@pidigital.co.uk> Message-ID: I would agree that a LC specific (smartcrumbs specific actually) interface to git would be helpful. On the back end, it would just be native git add/commit/push/fetch/pull/merge commands to get data into the repository. The JSON file structure looks to be a mainstack key with the GUID value and then GUID keys for each stack in the file that have all objects as a dictionary. It should be relatively easy to turn it into an array. The challenge will be dealing with diffs. The structure is something like this: { "guid of stack a": { "object guid": { } }, "guid of stack b": { "guid of stack b": { "name": "Main Stack Name" } }, "mainstack": "guid of stack b" } On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 9:41 PM Pi Digital via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Thanks Brian for your comprehensive response. What I meant was, though, > that ‘ideally’ we need some instructions in the Guide and preferably a GUI > for github and the like built into LC specifically for SmartCrumbs. That > way the UIDs can be auto converted to the object names and laid out in > filestruct format to make sense. Roundtripping to SourceTree or anything > else is not really what we want, is it? > > Let me see if I get a chance to knock something up quickly over the > weekend. I need to try out these new polylist and polygrid widgets anyway. > Linking it to GitHub and remote servers shouldn’t be an issue. I understand > how they work so I won’t have a problem. It just needs to be made much much > simpler for others. > > Sean Cole > Pi Digital Productions Ltd > > eMail Ts & Cs > > > > On 2 Sep 2022, at 02:26, Brian Milby via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > I think some of this is a bit too much to address in a list post. I'll > > make some comments though. > > (i) Make a repo at https://github.com; > > https://www.atlassian.com/git/tutorials/setting-up-a-repository; you can > > view tons of docs at https://docs.github.com/en > > (ii)-(iv) I use https://www.sourcetreeapp.com (Mac and Win app > available) > > to manage my repos (many other options available). They also have other > > tutorials at https://www.atlassian.com/git > > > > When you create a GitHub repository currently, it will make a default > > branch called "main". Initially you would take your stack and commit > > (really another word for "save") to the main branch. If you had 2 > > developers that were working on the same stack at the same time, then one > > way would be to have 2 branches off of main. Let's say "brian" and > "sean" > > for example. So each of us would check out our branch (initially the > same > > as main). We would make any changes we needed and each would commit to > our > > own branch. When whatever we are working on is ready to incorporate into > > the product, we would merge our branch into the main branch. Since > > everything is text files (except for the images and other binary > resources > > like that), git can detect which pieces have changed and integrate them > > together. So instead of a zip going back and forth of the full project, > > the individual changes would be tracked and integrated. The biggest > > difference is that multiple developers can work on the same stack at the > > same time and have their changes integrated together. > > > > The down side that I do see with this implementation is that it is > > difficult to know what object is being changed. Since everything is > stored > > by GUID it can be hard to know what is being updated by looking at the > > commit logs. Due to the Mac CR issue, I probably won't be able to do > much > > for demonstrating how it works until there is a good workaround (I guess > I > > could manually convert the JSON each time for now). I did fix the JSON > > file on my ScriptTracker repo so it could be viewed on GitHub. I need to > > make a change to a script that hasn't been fixed to see how it shows up. > > The JSON fix showed pretty much as a whole new file (line 1 was updated > to > > lines 1-1000+). > > > > My approach with ScriptTracker is a bit different. First is that my tool > > is much more limited (just does the scripts). But, my tool adds a bit of > > information to the header of each exported script to give it context and > > the scripts are named by the object ID (mainly to avoid issues with > illegal > > characters in the object name). It might be something that could be done > > with plugins to add some info to the JSON and script files. I'll need to > > take a look - it would make working with the scripts easier. For the > JSON, > > I think it may be helpful to have full object names included with the > GUID > > so you have more of an idea what was changed when looking at the diff. > > > > Also, if you just want to track your changes (and not work with another > dev > > to merge), it does get a bit easier. Then you don't even need to use a > > server (GitHub) but can run git completely on your seat. The same GUI > > tools mentioned above can be used there as well. > > > > Command line tools are there but not required. As I mentioned above, I > use > > a GUI for just about all of my git usage. They make it easy to see what > > happened and when. > > > > Hopefully this helps a little. I think there are a couple of videos from > > conferences over the past few years covering Git. I know that there is > at > > least one that I did (but it was targeted at building LC from source). > > > > Thanks, > > Brian > > > >> On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 5:39 PM Pi Digital via use-livecode < > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> > >> Fab :D > >> > >> however, ‘how’ does one… > >> (i) set up a GitHub (I know how, this is for the benefit of others), > >> (ii) perform commits, push, pulls (perhaps using LC and having an LC > >> library/widget for this would be best), > >> (iii) merge to a branch, > >> (iv) switch branches > >> All the while making it simple for even the most beginner of beginners > to > >> understand, like everything else in LC *Should be? > >> > >> It’s like giving us the front door but the hallway floor is missing. > >> > >> There is no guide on real world usage so we are left stranded with it. > >> > >> Here’s the actual situation myself and my colleague face. At the moment > >> one of us works on the app, makes some changes, zips it up, and posts > it up > >> to a server. Then the other does the same ad infinitum. > >> > >> But what you have described is not much different. How can we really > tell > >> who made changes unless we know the uid for the script or card (for > layout) > >> or object? And are we all supposed to now become command line experts to > >> manage an svc? I’m puzzled at the moment. > >> > >> It shows great promise, but it’s still not fully ready, is it. It’s > >> usable, like LCB, if you can do lower level stuff. But not many using LC > >> are able, hence why they use LC. Everything LC, and I mean everything, > that > >> is front end for LC users *Should, note, Should be High Level and easy > to > >> code & understand. The plug-in language for SmartCrumbs is dreamy. Thank > >> you whoever came up with that. I love it! LCB is a nightmare and could > have > >> been done so much better - much more in line with the HyperCard > principle. > >> > >> Sean Cole > >> Pi > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Fri Sep 2 02:18:13 2022 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 16:18:13 +1000 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance Message-ID: <2D910BA5-56BF-4F58-BF20-F248F1A5296F@optusnet.com.au> Standardising fonts, so that one would no longer have to check that every label and field carefully crafted on the Mac to fit text precisely would not have missing pixels or whole words wrapped out of sight on Windows because of different font metrics, sounds like a great idea. But the reality of the way systems render fonts seems to complicate things: I set up a test standalone with the Google fonts NotoSans-regular.ttf and NotoSerif-regular.ttf installed. A label and and single line text field were set up to be exactly the right size to fit some text using Arial font on a Mac (Monterey). Then the labels and field were set to use NotoSans or NotoSerif fonts. There does still appear to be a small difference in the baselines for the two fonts between Mac and Windows, possibly more than the difference between Arial on the two platforms, so that I think pixels could be cut off under some circumstances. Bizarrely there is a bigger difference between NotoSerif as rendered on Monterey and High Sierra — on High Sierra the space character seems to be more compressible when the system tries to fit a right-justified label into a given length - or possibly the 8pixel margins are honoured on High Sierra, whereas on Monterey the text just overwrote the left margin? When it comes to Linux (Ubuntu) however everything came unstuck. The NotoSans text renders much wider, wrapping the final word of a piece of text to the next line. At least I think it is using NotoSans: LC lists the NotoSans and NotoSerif files as in use, but the Serif font just doesn’t render at all (that is, it does not change the displayed text)! It could be the system is substituting another font entirely for NotoSans, and not recognising NotoSerif [does the font have to be set to NotoSerif-regular on Linux rather than NotoSerif??]. I need to make a more detailed comparisons. I presume the LC text measurement functions return the exact pixel height and width that the text will use when rendered by the iterating system, but can I get the bottom-right of its rect? And the actual font the system will employ? Neville From gcanyon at gmail.com Fri Sep 2 04:00:27 2022 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 01:00:27 -0700 Subject: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: <951cdea0-756c-3d78-97f4-448ee7baa13f@fourthworld.com> References: <951cdea0-756c-3d78-97f4-448ee7baa13f@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 10:08 AM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Its much faster than C but slower than Script. Should that be "much slower than C but faster than Script"? In which case, what happened to the "faster than script" part? From gcanyon at gmail.com Fri Sep 2 04:05:30 2022 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 01:05:30 -0700 Subject: Stylistic question. In-Reply-To: <990BFD28-D609-4498-9DF0-A80E605861C4@iotecdigital.com> References: <1818ceeb0b0.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <990BFD28-D609-4498-9DF0-A80E605861C4@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 10:32 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I will however ask for just one enhancement: If I am filtering the list > and have an item or items selected, and then I clear the filter, it also > clears the selection. It would be great if the selection could be > maintained or restored. > I'm surprised it doesn't actually. I'll take a look. And: thanks for the kind words. I'm still surprised by its longevity. gc From merakosp at gmail.com Fri Sep 2 04:24:24 2022 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis m) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 11:24:24 +0300 Subject: Text to speech In-Reply-To: References: <1208fc7b-7f41-131f-5767-d26ada36f378@hyperactivesw.com> <17eef8bf-c4f2-c828-a5fb-1af24dd66f8f@researchware.com> <182faee5e70.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Hello all, Yes, we discussed this topic in August's Problem Solving session. The stack presented supports text-to-speech in all platforms (including Linux and Web). Kind regards, Panos -- On Fri, 2 Sept 2022 at 00:36, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I think it was the July Problem solving session, but it could have been > August's. I think July 14th's session. > > > > On 9/1/2022 5:21 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > > Thank you. I keep missing the conferences and I need to watch them > > later. Do you happen to recall which one it was? It sounds like > > exactly what I'm looking for. > > > > -- > > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > On September 1, 2022 3:44:56 PM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode > > wrote: > > > >> On 9/1/2022 4:33 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > >>> What library/commands do you use for text to speech? I see that > >>> revSpeak works on Windows and Mac, and the speech library ("speech*") > >>> works on android, iOS, and Mac. What do you use if you want to support > >>> all four platforms? Do you just branch to revSpeak for Windows? > >>> > >> > >> I think Panos just shows how to build a common text to speech library > >> for all platforms from these two built-in in a recent Livecode Global > >> problem solving session. > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 2 10:53:25 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 14:53:25 +0000 Subject: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <951cdea0-756c-3d78-97f4-448ee7baa13f@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <35D81BBE-2D4A-4B61-80AB-3ED4C5DF2229@iotecdigital.com> Or slower than both? As I understand it, LCB has the capability to call C externals which themselves would be faster than anything, but on it's own it is slower than both. Bob S On Sep 2, 2022, at 01:00 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode > wrote: On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 10:08 AM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: Its much faster than C but slower than Script. Should that be "much slower than C but faster than Script"? In which case, what happened to the "faster than script" part? From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 2 10:59:25 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 14:59:25 +0000 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: <2D910BA5-56BF-4F58-BF20-F248F1A5296F@optusnet.com.au> References: <2D910BA5-56BF-4F58-BF20-F248F1A5296F@optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <82919547-9C9B-4117-A9B1-BF0EC4A2F37A@iotecdigital.com> I read a blog some years back why it is so difficult to get nything on Windows to look like it does on the Mac. It is true that Windows renders fonts differently that Mac, so "exactly the same" remains the realm of the imagined. But you can get close. My big issue was that using Arial, labels that were right aligned and auto fitted on the Mac would overflow the left f the label on Windows. Now I am using Aclonica for form headers, Acme for labels and Actor for fields, buttons and grids. (Didn't have to look far did I?) I'm pretty happy now with the rendering of each on both platforms. Bob S On Sep 1, 2022, at 23:18 , Neville Smythe via use-livecode > wrote: Standardising fonts, so that one would no longer have to check that every label and field carefully crafted on the Mac to fit text precisely would not have missing pixels or whole words wrapped out of sight on Windows because of different font metrics, sounds like a great idea. But the reality of the way systems render fonts seems to complicate things: I set up a test standalone with the Google fonts NotoSans-regular.ttf and NotoSerif-regular.ttf installed. A label and and single line text field were set up to be exactly the right size to fit some text using Arial font on a Mac (Monterey). Then the labels and field were set to use NotoSans or NotoSerif fonts. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Fri Sep 2 11:09:44 2022 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 18:09:44 +0300 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: <82919547-9C9B-4117-A9B1-BF0EC4A2F37A@iotecdigital.com> References: <2D910BA5-56BF-4F58-BF20-F248F1A5296F@optusnet.com.au> <82919547-9C9B-4117-A9B1-BF0EC4A2F37A@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: For what it's worth, ever since my Master's thesis with LiveCode/RunRev, I have always set up buttons with fonts the way I want them on whatever platform, imported snapshots of those buttons, and used those images as buttons. No stress, No mess! On Fri, 2 Sept 2022, 18:00 Bob Sneidar via use-livecode, < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I read a blog some years back why it is so difficult to get nything on > Windows to look like it does on the Mac. It is true that Windows renders > fonts differently that Mac, so "exactly the same" remains the realm of the > imagined. But you can get close. My big issue was that using Arial, labels > that were right aligned and auto fitted on the Mac would overflow the left > f the label on Windows. > > Now I am using Aclonica for form headers, Acme for labels and Actor for > fields, buttons and grids. (Didn't have to look far did I?) I'm pretty > happy now with the rendering of each on both platforms. > > Bob S > > > On Sep 1, 2022, at 23:18 , Neville Smythe via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> > wrote: > > Standardising fonts, so that one would no longer have to check that every > label and field carefully crafted on the Mac to fit text precisely would > not have missing pixels or whole words wrapped out of sight on Windows > because of different font metrics, sounds like a great idea. But the > reality of the way systems render fonts seems to complicate things: > > I set up a test standalone with the Google fonts NotoSans-regular.ttf and > NotoSerif-regular.ttf installed. A label and and single line text field > were set up to be exactly the right size to fit some text using Arial font > on a Mac (Monterey). Then the labels and field were set to use NotoSans or > NotoSerif fonts. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri Sep 2 11:11:33 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 11:11:33 -0400 Subject: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: <35D81BBE-2D4A-4B61-80AB-3ED4C5DF2229@iotecdigital.com> References: <951cdea0-756c-3d78-97f4-448ee7baa13f@fourthworld.com> <35D81BBE-2D4A-4B61-80AB-3ED4C5DF2229@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: I wonder why the polygrid is so much faster than the datagrid at rendering, then, in the demo On Fri, Sep 2, 2022 at 10:54 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Or slower than both? As I understand it, LCB has the capability to call C > externals which themselves would be faster than anything, but on it's own > it is slower than both. > > Bob S > > > On Sep 2, 2022, at 01:00 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> > wrote: > > On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 10:08 AM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> > wrote: > > Its much faster than C but slower than Script. > > Should that be "much slower than C but faster than Script"? > > In which case, what happened to the "faster than script" part? > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Sep 2 11:21:01 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2022 10:21:01 -0500 Subject: Text to speech In-Reply-To: References: <1208fc7b-7f41-131f-5767-d26ada36f378@hyperactivesw.com> <17eef8bf-c4f2-c828-a5fb-1af24dd66f8f@researchware.com> <182faee5e70.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <182feca8348.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Fantastic, thank you both. You've saved me hours of time. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On September 2, 2022 3:26:38 AM panagiotis m via use-livecode wrote: > Hello all, > > Yes, we discussed this topic in August's Problem Solving session. The stack > presented supports text-to-speech in all platforms (including Linux and > Web). > > Kind regards, > Panos > -- > > On Fri, 2 Sept 2022 at 00:36, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> I think it was the July Problem solving session, but it could have been >> August's. I think July 14th's session. From ahsoftware at sonic.net Fri Sep 2 11:21:49 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 08:21:49 -0700 Subject: Livecode / Github In-Reply-To: References: <9c8f45ac-f894-62cf-a318-6a1c3553f36c@sonic.net> <426260FD-18BC-48A1-987F-E578E58E904B@pidigital.co.uk> <5495add8-b356-ddb9-e934-ee09f27e946e@sonic.net> Message-ID: On 9/1/22 18:47, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote: > Mark, this is the same bug that you already filed: > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23910 Hah! Forgot about that one. Same root cause but different symptoms, since it also results in a complete failure of the Plugins feature without throwing any errors. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From tom at makeshyft.com Fri Sep 2 12:40:58 2022 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 12:40:58 -0400 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: References: <2D910BA5-56BF-4F58-BF20-F248F1A5296F@optusnet.com.au> <82919547-9C9B-4117-A9B1-BF0EC4A2F37A@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Bob, if you really wanna think about the user, check out resource such as this: https://www.vandelaydesign.com/google-font-pairings/ On Fri, Sep 2, 2022 at 11:10 AM Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > For what it's worth, ever since my Master's thesis with LiveCode/RunRev, I > have always set up buttons with fonts the way I want them on whatever > platform, imported snapshots of those buttons, and used those images as > buttons. > > No stress, No mess! > > On Fri, 2 Sept 2022, 18:00 Bob Sneidar via use-livecode, < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > I read a blog some years back why it is so difficult to get nything on > > Windows to look like it does on the Mac. It is true that Windows renders > > fonts differently that Mac, so "exactly the same" remains the realm of > the > > imagined. But you can get close. My big issue was that using Arial, > labels > > that were right aligned and auto fitted on the Mac would overflow the > left > > f the label on Windows. > > > > Now I am using Aclonica for form headers, Acme for labels and Actor for > > fields, buttons and grids. (Didn't have to look far did I?) I'm pretty > > happy now with the rendering of each on both platforms. > > > > Bob S > > > > > > On Sep 1, 2022, at 23:18 , Neville Smythe via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> > > wrote: > > > > Standardising fonts, so that one would no longer have to check that every > > label and field carefully crafted on the Mac to fit text precisely would > > not have missing pixels or whole words wrapped out of sight on Windows > > because of different font metrics, sounds like a great idea. But the > > reality of the way systems render fonts seems to complicate things: > > > > I set up a test standalone with the Google fonts NotoSans-regular.ttf and > > NotoSerif-regular.ttf installed. A label and and single line text field > > were set up to be exactly the right size to fit some text using Arial > font > > on a Mac (Monterey). Then the labels and field were set to use NotoSans > or > > NotoSerif fonts. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From jacques.clavel at gmail.com Fri Sep 2 13:43:21 2022 From: jacques.clavel at gmail.com (Jacques Clavel) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 19:43:21 +0200 Subject: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <951cdea0-756c-3d78-97f4-448ee7baa13f@fourthworld.com> <35D81BBE-2D4A-4B61-80AB-3ED4C5DF2229@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: As a typed language, LCB should be more efficient than LCS. Writing programs in LCB is more difficult and time consuming (bogs...) than using higher level language (LCS) You can write exactly the same functions, commands in LCB than in LCS JC Le ven. 2 sept. 2022 à 17:13, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> a écrit : > I wonder why the polygrid is so much faster than the datagrid at rendering, > then, in the demo > > On Fri, Sep 2, 2022 at 10:54 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > Or slower than both? As I understand it, LCB has the capability to call C > > externals which themselves would be faster than anything, but on it's own > > it is slower than both. > > > > Bob S > > > > > > On Sep 2, 2022, at 01:00 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> > > wrote: > > > > On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 10:08 AM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> > > wrote: > > > > Its much faster than C but slower than Script. > > > > Should that be "much slower than C but faster than Script"? > > > > In which case, what happened to the "faster than script" part? > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Jacques Clavel From ahsoftware at sonic.net Fri Sep 2 15:58:09 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 12:58:09 -0700 Subject: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <951cdea0-756c-3d78-97f4-448ee7baa13f@fourthworld.com> <35D81BBE-2D4A-4B61-80AB-3ED4C5DF2229@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <4b8ea7d4-962c-5d78-ba14-93f05aff79cd@sonic.net> On 9/2/22 10:43, Jacques Clavel via use-livecode wrote: > You can write exactly the same functions, commands in LCB than in LCS Um, no. There are quite a few pain points trying to determine the differences in what is supported and what is different. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From brian at milby7.com Fri Sep 2 16:27:28 2022 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 16:27:28 -0400 Subject: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: <4b8ea7d4-962c-5d78-ba14-93f05aff79cd@sonic.net> References: <4b8ea7d4-962c-5d78-ba14-93f05aff79cd@sonic.net> Message-ID: Look no further than comparing the JSON library written in LCB and LCS (PhotonJSON). I’m thinking that the LCS is probably faster. Probably worth a shot to actually test in more detail. I tried to import the smartcrumbs output with the external, LCB and LCS and only the LCS even was successful (probably due to the MD5 hashes). Each has strengths and a use case. LCB can do quite a bit that you just can’t do with LCS. The efficiency of dealing with a single object widget over a grouped control is another plus. I’d imagine quite a bit of the speed of the new widgets over DG is going to be along these lines. LC Mark would be the one to speak to speed differences between LCB and LCS though. Brian Milby brian at milby7.com > On Sep 2, 2022, at 3:59 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > > On 9/2/22 10:43, Jacques Clavel via use-livecode wrote: > >> You can write exactly the same functions, commands in LCB than in LCS > > Um, no. > There are quite a few pain points trying to determine the differences in what is supported and what is different. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 2 17:16:24 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 21:16:24 +0000 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: References: <2D910BA5-56BF-4F58-BF20-F248F1A5296F@optusnet.com.au> <82919547-9C9B-4117-A9B1-BF0EC4A2F37A@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <1AF693E6-CD76-4434-AEDE-B7E3DADF4C42@iotecdigital.com> That's great for buttons. I'd like to implement something for all objects. My goal is to be able to offer the end user a way to change their "motif" with a single click. Imagine being able to set the properties of an object designated as a "class object", the object then getting a propertyChanged message, and then having that propertyChanged handler trigger the change of all the subscribed properties of all the objects that are an instance of that class or sub-class. I see it all in my mind. It wouldn't be that hard to do. I just need to know when a property gets changed in any object. Bob S On Sep 2, 2022, at 08:09 , Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode > wrote: For what it's worth, ever since my Master's thesis with LiveCode/RunRev, I have always set up buttons with fonts the way I want them on whatever platform, imported snapshots of those buttons, and used those images as buttons. No stress, No mess! From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 2 17:16:53 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 21:16:53 +0000 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: References: <2D910BA5-56BF-4F58-BF20-F248F1A5296F@optusnet.com.au> <82919547-9C9B-4117-A9B1-BF0EC4A2F37A@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <04CFA4F9-5BC5-46F3-861B-B03290AA0F24@iotecdigital.com> Oooh thanks Tom. Bob S > On Sep 2, 2022, at 09:40 , Tom Glod via use-livecode wrote: > > Bob, if you really wanna think about the user, check out resource such as > this: > > https://www.vandelaydesign.com/google-font-pairings/ > > On Fri, Sep 2, 2022 at 11:10 AM Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> For what it's worth, ever since my Master's thesis with LiveCode/RunRev, I >> have always set up buttons with fonts the way I want them on whatever >> platform, imported snapshots of those buttons, and used those images as >> buttons. >> >> No stress, No mess! >> >> On Fri, 2 Sept 2022, 18:00 Bob Sneidar via use-livecode, < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>> I read a blog some years back why it is so difficult to get nything on >>> Windows to look like it does on the Mac. It is true that Windows renders >>> fonts differently that Mac, so "exactly the same" remains the realm of >> the >>> imagined. But you can get close. My big issue was that using Arial, >> labels >>> that were right aligned and auto fitted on the Mac would overflow the >> left >>> f the label on Windows. >>> >>> Now I am using Aclonica for form headers, Acme for labels and Actor for >>> fields, buttons and grids. (Didn't have to look far did I?) I'm pretty >>> happy now with the rendering of each on both platforms. >>> >>> Bob S >>> >>> >>> On Sep 1, 2022, at 23:18 , Neville Smythe via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Standardising fonts, so that one would no longer have to check that every >>> label and field carefully crafted on the Mac to fit text precisely would >>> not have missing pixels or whole words wrapped out of sight on Windows >>> because of different font metrics, sounds like a great idea. But the >>> reality of the way systems render fonts seems to complicate things: >>> >>> I set up a test standalone with the Google fonts NotoSans-regular.ttf and >>> NotoSerif-regular.ttf installed. A label and and single line text field >>> were set up to be exactly the right size to fit some text using Arial >> font >>> on a Mac (Monterey). Then the labels and field were set to use NotoSans >> or >>> NotoSerif fonts. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 2 17:30:23 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 21:30:23 +0000 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: References: <2D910BA5-56BF-4F58-BF20-F248F1A5296F@optusnet.com.au> <82919547-9C9B-4117-A9B1-BF0EC4A2F37A@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: See, this is the exact reason why I would love to be able to employ an OOP style system. Simply changing the font, size and style of a few "Master Class" objects could change the entire project's look and feel in a matter of a second or two. As it is, it took me almost an entire day futzing around with fonts I liked, and then going to each and every object and making the changes there. Now I see immediately other font and style combinations I really like! Am I going to spend another day? Hell to the no! See just changing a font might not be enough. Often the size and lineheight have to be changed at the same time to get it to look proper. But this could go even further. Imagine having a behavior as a property that can be subclassed! You could test script changes in one object, then when ready, set the behavior of a class object and all the other objects subscribed to that class object would get the new behavior. As is, any changes to a behavior automatically affect all the objects that use it. Currently you can systematically improve the code all at once, or screw the pooch. All at once. The possibilities and benefits are many. I just. Need. That. Message. LOL! :-) Bob S > On Sep 2, 2022, at 09:40 , Tom Glod via use-livecode wrote: > > Bob, if you really wanna think about the user, check out resource such as > this: > > https://www.vandelaydesign.com/google-font-pairings/ > > On Fri, Sep 2, 2022 at 11:10 AM Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> For what it's worth, ever since my Master's thesis with LiveCode/RunRev, I >> have always set up buttons with fonts the way I want them on whatever >> platform, imported snapshots of those buttons, and used those images as >> buttons. >> >> No stress, No mess! >> >> On Fri, 2 Sept 2022, 18:00 Bob Sneidar via use-livecode, < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>> I read a blog some years back why it is so difficult to get nything on >>> Windows to look like it does on the Mac. It is true that Windows renders >>> fonts differently that Mac, so "exactly the same" remains the realm of >> the >>> imagined. But you can get close. My big issue was that using Arial, >> labels >>> that were right aligned and auto fitted on the Mac would overflow the >> left >>> f the label on Windows. >>> >>> Now I am using Aclonica for form headers, Acme for labels and Actor for >>> fields, buttons and grids. (Didn't have to look far did I?) I'm pretty >>> happy now with the rendering of each on both platforms. >>> >>> Bob S >>> >>> >>> On Sep 1, 2022, at 23:18 , Neville Smythe via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Standardising fonts, so that one would no longer have to check that every >>> label and field carefully crafted on the Mac to fit text precisely would >>> not have missing pixels or whole words wrapped out of sight on Windows >>> because of different font metrics, sounds like a great idea. But the >>> reality of the way systems render fonts seems to complicate things: >>> >>> I set up a test standalone with the Google fonts NotoSans-regular.ttf and >>> NotoSerif-regular.ttf installed. A label and and single line text field >>> were set up to be exactly the right size to fit some text using Arial >> font >>> on a Mac (Monterey). Then the labels and field were set to use NotoSans >> or >>> NotoSerif fonts. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Fri Sep 2 19:42:24 2022 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 09:42:24 +1000 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance Message-ID: Consulting the dictionary would have helped me (in this case!): measureText(text,field,bounds) should give me what I need to make precise comparisons of how the various operating (iterating?!!!) systems will render my fonts. I will report back Interesting idea, Richard, to use images for all labels. I presume you automate the export process, it would seem to be rather large task when one can have hundreds of label fields. And it wouldn’t work for fields with dynamic content. Neville From brian at milby7.com Fri Sep 2 19:54:48 2022 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 19:54:48 -0400 Subject: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55236804-6B06-47A8-8ECF-AA548BC9F892@milby7.com> Did a simple test with 819kb json file: - JSON Library / LCB 5400 ms - PhotonJSON / LCS 400 ms - mergJSON / extension 250 ms Brian Milby brian at milby7.com > On Sep 2, 2022, at 4:27 PM, Brian Milby wrote: > > Look no further than comparing the JSON library written in LCB and LCS (PhotonJSON). I’m thinking that the LCS is probably faster. Probably worth a shot to actually test in more detail. I tried to import the smartcrumbs output with the external, LCB and LCS and only the LCS even was successful (probably due to the MD5 hashes). > > Each has strengths and a use case. LCB can do quite a bit that you just can’t do with LCS. The efficiency of dealing with a single object widget over a grouped control is another plus. I’d imagine quite a bit of the speed of the new widgets over DG is going to be along these lines. LC Mark would be the one to speak to speed differences between LCB and LCS though. > > Brian Milby > brian at milby7.com > >>> On Sep 2, 2022, at 3:59 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> On 9/2/22 10:43, Jacques Clavel via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> You can write exactly the same functions, commands in LCB than in LCS >> >> Um, no. >> There are quite a few pain points trying to determine the differences in what is supported and what is different. >> >> -- >> Mark Wieder >> ahsoftware at gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ahsoftware at sonic.net Fri Sep 2 20:41:17 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 17:41:17 -0700 Subject: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: <55236804-6B06-47A8-8ECF-AA548BC9F892@milby7.com> References: <55236804-6B06-47A8-8ECF-AA548BC9F892@milby7.com> Message-ID: On 9/2/22 16:54, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote: > Did a simple test with 819kb json file: > - JSON Library / LCB 5400 ms > - PhotonJSON / LCS 400 ms > - mergJSON / extension 250 ms That's impressive. Monte's external is written in C, so that's as close to bare metal as we're gonna get. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri Sep 2 22:12:06 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 19:12:06 -0700 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <68520646-b2dd-84f9-3b04-57519f636741@fourthworld.com> Bob Sneidar wrote: > See, this is the exact reason why I would love to be able to employ > an OOP style system. Simply changing the font, size and style of a > few "Master Class" objects could change the entire project's look > and feel in a matter of a second or two. As it is, it took me almost > an entire day futzing around with fonts I liked, and then going to > each and every object and making the changes there. Now I see > immediately other font and style combinations I really like! Am I > going to spend another day? Hell to the no! See just changing a font > might not be enough. Often the size and lineheight have to be changed > at the same time to get it to look proper. How does this proposed system know which objects are bound to a style defined elsewhere and which ones aren't? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 2 22:27:43 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 02:27:43 +0000 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: <68520646-b2dd-84f9-3b04-57519f636741@fourthworld.com> References: <68520646-b2dd-84f9-3b04-57519f636741@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Like any other OOP system. By providing a way to instance an object from the class, and then modify the parameters if necessary. Not saying it wouldn’t take code. But the code would not be difficult to implement. Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 2, 2022, at 19:13, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > Bob Sneidar wrote: > > > See, this is the exact reason why I would love to be able to employ > > an OOP style system. Simply changing the font, size and style of a > > few "Master Class" objects could change the entire project's look > > and feel in a matter of a second or two. As it is, it took me almost > > an entire day futzing around with fonts I liked, and then going to > > each and every object and making the changes there. Now I see > > immediately other font and style combinations I really like! Am I > > going to spend another day? Hell to the no! See just changing a font > > might not be enough. Often the size and lineheight have to be changed > > at the same time to get it to look proper. > > How does this proposed system know which objects are bound to a style defined elsewhere and which ones aren't? > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 2 22:31:10 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 02:31:10 +0000 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: References: <68520646-b2dd-84f9-3b04-57519f636741@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <223D74D0-FB71-440B-A350-B99DD46E85B9@iotecdigital.com> Imagine right-clicking on the card, getting. Menu, field, button, grid, widget. Next level, named instance of a predefined class. Code drops the field then registers the object with the class object. Now the class object knows which objects to modify. Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 2, 2022, at 19:27, Bob Sneidar wrote: > > Like any other OOP system. By providing a way to instance an object from the class, and then modify the parameters if necessary. Not saying it wouldn’t take code. But the code would not be difficult to implement. > > Sent from my iPhone > >>> On Sep 2, 2022, at 19:13, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> Bob Sneidar wrote: >>> >>> See, this is the exact reason why I would love to be able to employ >>> an OOP style system. Simply changing the font, size and style of a >>> few "Master Class" objects could change the entire project's look >>> and feel in a matter of a second or two. As it is, it took me almost >>> an entire day futzing around with fonts I liked, and then going to >>> each and every object and making the changes there. Now I see >>> immediately other font and style combinations I really like! Am I >>> going to spend another day? Hell to the no! See just changing a font >>> might not be enough. Often the size and lineheight have to be changed >>> at the same time to get it to look proper. >> >> How does this proposed system know which objects are bound to a style defined elsewhere and which ones aren't? >> >> -- >> Richard Gaskin >> Fourth World Systems >> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web >> ____________________________________________________________________ >> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 2 22:32:01 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 02:32:01 +0000 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: <223D74D0-FB71-440B-A350-B99DD46E85B9@iotecdigital.com> References: <68520646-b2dd-84f9-3b04-57519f636741@fourthworld.com> <223D74D0-FB71-440B-A350-B99DD46E85B9@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Should read, drops the object on the card… Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 2, 2022, at 19:31, Bob Sneidar wrote: > > Imagine right-clicking on the card, getting. Menu, field, button, grid, widget. Next level, named instance of a predefined class. Code drops the field then registers the object with the class object. Now the class object knows which objects to modify. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Sep 2, 2022, at 19:27, Bob Sneidar wrote: >> >> Like any other OOP system. By providing a way to instance an object from the class, and then modify the parameters if necessary. Not saying it wouldn’t take code. But the code would not be difficult to implement. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>>>> On Sep 2, 2022, at 19:13, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Bob Sneidar wrote: >>>>> >>>>> See, this is the exact reason why I would love to be able to employ >>>>> an OOP style system. Simply changing the font, size and style of a >>>>> few "Master Class" objects could change the entire project's look >>>>> and feel in a matter of a second or two. As it is, it took me almost >>>>> an entire day futzing around with fonts I liked, and then going to >>>>> each and every object and making the changes there. Now I see >>>>> immediately other font and style combinations I really like! Am I >>>>> going to spend another day? Hell to the no! See just changing a font >>>>> might not be enough. Often the size and lineheight have to be changed >>>>> at the same time to get it to look proper. >>> >>> How does this proposed system know which objects are bound to a style defined elsewhere and which ones aren't? >>> >>> -- >>> Richard Gaskin >>> Fourth World Systems >>> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web >>> ____________________________________________________________________ >>> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ahsoftware at sonic.net Fri Sep 2 22:50:03 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 19:50:03 -0700 Subject: Excel Lib fail Message-ID: <9e4bc610-59b4-7b49-b95a-bd03e38f5503@sonic.net> /sigh Got all excited about using the Excel Library for a new spreadsheet project and then discovered it doesn't work on linux, *only* works with actual Excel, not LibreOffice. Yes, I do realize it says "Excel" and not "spreadsheet". So it's off to python to do my spreadsheet automation. Sheesh. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 2 23:12:35 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 03:12:35 +0000 Subject: Excel Lib fail In-Reply-To: <9e4bc610-59b4-7b49-b95a-bd03e38f5503@sonic.net> References: <9e4bc610-59b4-7b49-b95a-bd03e38f5503@sonic.net> Message-ID: Ya I think it uses a Microsoft API. Mac side, probably Applescript. Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 2, 2022, at 19:51, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > > /sigh > Got all excited about using the Excel Library for a new spreadsheet project and then discovered it doesn't work on linux, *only* works with actual Excel, not LibreOffice. Yes, I do realize it says "Excel" and not "spreadsheet". > > So it's off to python to do my spreadsheet automation. Sheesh. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ahsoftware at sonic.net Fri Sep 2 23:59:38 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 20:59:38 -0700 Subject: Excel Lib fail In-Reply-To: References: <9e4bc610-59b4-7b49-b95a-bd03e38f5503@sonic.net> Message-ID: <34fc7f87-a447-301b-88b0-46b35c8aa9bb@sonic.net> On 9/2/22 20:12, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > Ya I think it uses a Microsoft API. Mac side, probably Applescript. Yep. Fortunately LibreOffice is pretty easy to automate from python. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From gcanyon at gmail.com Sat Sep 3 03:37:29 2022 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 00:37:29 -0700 Subject: propertyChanged message In-Reply-To: References: <21EE8FB7-D2D3-45A6-A95F-844F542EA5BE@iotecdigital.com> <721b6787-c546-d981-0cbe-cabe4651808d@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: > what if I wanted to change the font settings again, but only for say, labels, and only certain labels and not others? There are multiple ways to do (something like) this in Navigator. 1. Navigator can display all the controls in a stack (show the card list, select all the cards, right click and browse controls). Then Navigator can filter those controls, either by simple text match against the displayed strings (which can be the name, id, long name, long id, or other options) or by test -- so you can match however you like, using the three characters "tID" to represent the object being tested. For example, word 1 of the long name of tID is "button" and the width of tID is 100 Would filter to just buttons 100 pixels wide. You can of course filter on custom properties if you want to tag the controls. Then whatever font or other property you want to set can be changed. 2. Navigator can search all the controls in a stack and its substacks (or whatever cards, stacks etc. you right click), again using whatever test you can come up with, and create bookmarks for all of the matching controls. Then selecting those bookmarks, you can change whatever property you like. I would say you can save those bookmarks for later reference, but I just tested and that appears broken. I'll have to fix it. 3. Finally, you could select whatever controls you like and then apply a command. The command can be whatever script you like. Bookmarking/filtering/selecting only the controls you want would be best, but you could also perform tests in the command -- e.g. if you were applying the command to many types of controls, but wanted to ignore fields with "label" in the name, you do something like: if word 1 of the long name of tID is "field" and the short name of tID contains "label" then next repeat -- whatever font-setting code you like here. That would be less efficient than identifying the controls yourself, but probably faster if you include your time filtering and selecting. Commands can be saved (I just checked, that works) but I don't think they can easily be modified (they're saved as text, so there's definitely *some* way to do it). It would be possible to have a command ask for the font -- you can include something like: if tIndex = 1 then ask "what font" with empty; put it into tFont end if -- font setting code here In any case let me know if you decide to use Navigator and need help. gc From bogdanoff at me.com Sat Sep 3 06:12:06 2022 From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 03:12:06 -0700 Subject: Text to speech In-Reply-To: References: <1208fc7b-7f41-131f-5767-d26ada36f378@hyperactivesw.com> <17eef8bf-c4f2-c828-a5fb-1af24dd66f8f@researchware.com> <182faee5e70.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Hi, where might the August Problem Solving session be found? Peter Bogdanoff ArtsInteractive > On Sep 2, 2022, at 1:24 AM, panagiotis m via use-livecode wrote: > > Hello all, > > Yes, we discussed this topic in August's Problem Solving session. The stack > presented supports text-to-speech in all platforms (including Linux and > Web). > > Kind regards, > Panos > -- > > On Fri, 2 Sept 2022 at 00:36, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> I think it was the July Problem solving session, but it could have been >> August's. I think July 14th's session. >> >> >> >> On 9/1/2022 5:21 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >>> Thank you. I keep missing the conferences and I need to watch them >>> later. Do you happen to recall which one it was? It sounds like >>> exactly what I'm looking for. >>> >>> -- >>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>> On September 1, 2022 3:44:56 PM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On 9/1/2022 4:33 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >>>>> What library/commands do you use for text to speech? I see that >>>>> revSpeak works on Windows and Mac, and the speech library ("speech*") >>>>> works on android, iOS, and Mac. What do you use if you want to support >>>>> all four platforms? Do you just branch to revSpeak for Windows? >>>>> >>>> >>>> I think Panos just shows how to build a common text to speech library >>>> for all platforms from these two built-in in a recent Livecode Global >>>> problem solving session. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From zryip.theslug at gmail.com Sat Sep 3 06:32:37 2022 From: zryip.theslug at gmail.com (zryip theSlug) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 12:32:37 +0200 Subject: Excel Lib fail In-Reply-To: <9e4bc610-59b4-7b49-b95a-bd03e38f5503@sonic.net> References: <9e4bc610-59b4-7b49-b95a-bd03e38f5503@sonic.net> Message-ID: Dear Mark, Did you try the XLXS Lib instead of the Excel Lib? On Sat, 3 Sept 2022 at 04:51, Mark Wieder via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > /sigh > Got all excited about using the Excel Library for a new spreadsheet > project and then discovered it doesn't work on linux, *only* works with > actual Excel, not LibreOffice. Yes, I do realize it says "Excel" and not > "spreadsheet". > > So it's off to python to do my spreadsheet automation. Sheesh. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Zryip TheSlug http://www.aslugontheroad.com From paul at researchware.com Sat Sep 3 07:53:36 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 07:53:36 -0400 Subject: Text to speech In-Reply-To: References: <1208fc7b-7f41-131f-5767-d26ada36f378@hyperactivesw.com> <17eef8bf-c4f2-c828-a5fb-1af24dd66f8f@researchware.com> <182faee5e70.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <93312178-1fe1-a0cf-3be7-22d56173a311@researchware.com> If you purchased a subscription to the LiveCode Global 22-23 conference, then you can go to livecode.com and login to the store and navigate to your account and you will see "LiveCode Global 22/23 - The Year of Reinvention" under Conferences in the sidebar. All the video's are under there - and I think a way to get the sample files as well. On 9/3/2022 6:12 AM, Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode wrote: > Hi, where might the August Problem Solving session be found? > > Peter Bogdanoff > ArtsInteractive > >> On Sep 2, 2022, at 1:24 AM, panagiotis m via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Hello all, >> >> Yes, we discussed this topic in August's Problem Solving session. The stack >> presented supports text-to-speech in all platforms (including Linux and >> Web). >> >> Kind regards, >> Panos >> -- >> >> On Fri, 2 Sept 2022 at 00:36, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>> I think it was the July Problem solving session, but it could have been >>> August's. I think July 14th's session. >>> >>> >>> >>> On 9/1/2022 5:21 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >>>> Thank you. I keep missing the conferences and I need to watch them >>>> later. Do you happen to recall which one it was? It sounds like >>>> exactly what I'm looking for. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>>> On September 1, 2022 3:44:56 PM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 9/1/2022 4:33 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >>>>>> What library/commands do you use for text to speech? I see that >>>>>> revSpeak works on Windows and Mac, and the speech library ("speech*") >>>>>> works on android, iOS, and Mac. What do you use if you want to support >>>>>> all four platforms? Do you just branch to revSpeak for Windows? >>>>>> >>>>> I think Panos just shows how to build a common text to speech library >>>>> for all platforms from these two built-in in a recent Livecode Global >>>>> problem solving session. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Sat Sep 3 07:56:24 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 07:56:24 -0400 Subject: Excel Lib fail In-Reply-To: <9e4bc610-59b4-7b49-b95a-bd03e38f5503@sonic.net> References: <9e4bc610-59b4-7b49-b95a-bd03e38f5503@sonic.net> Message-ID: <4ffafc24-1673-a1db-9f5d-d85a2d565731@researchware.com> On 9/2/2022 10:50 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > /sigh > Got all excited about using the Excel Library for a new spreadsheet > project and then discovered it doesn't work on linux, *only* works > with actual Excel, not LibreOffice. Yes, I do realize it says "Excel" > and not "spreadsheet". > > So it's off to python to do my spreadsheet automation. Sheesh. > Are you looking to remote control LibreOffice? or just write a spreadsheet from Livecode. If writing a spreadhseet, consider Curry's SpreadOut library. It works great for creating .xlsx files in Livecode script. From ahsoftware at sonic.net Sat Sep 3 11:26:46 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 08:26:46 -0700 Subject: Excel Lib fail In-Reply-To: References: <9e4bc610-59b4-7b49-b95a-bd03e38f5503@sonic.net> Message-ID: On 9/3/22 03:32, zryip theSlug via use-livecode wrote: > Dear Mark, > > Did you try the XLXS Lib instead of the Excel Lib? No, why would I have known to try that? -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ahsoftware at sonic.net Sat Sep 3 11:30:43 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 08:30:43 -0700 Subject: Excel Lib fail In-Reply-To: <4ffafc24-1673-a1db-9f5d-d85a2d565731@researchware.com> References: <9e4bc610-59b4-7b49-b95a-bd03e38f5503@sonic.net> <4ffafc24-1673-a1db-9f5d-d85a2d565731@researchware.com> Message-ID: On 9/3/22 04:56, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > Are you looking to remote control LibreOffice? or just write a > spreadsheet from Livecode. If writing a spreadhseet, consider Curry's > SpreadOut library. It works great for creating .xlsx files in Livecode > script. Thanks, but a little bit of python does the trick. And no, I need to manipulate a .csv file (format is not under my control) into a spreadsheet, change the column headers text, and move a couple of columns around. Easy to do as a one-off, but we're gonna need pretty much daily reports until the election on 8 November. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From zryip.theslug at gmail.com Sat Sep 3 13:35:11 2022 From: zryip.theslug at gmail.com (zryip theSlug) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 19:35:11 +0200 Subject: Excel Lib fail In-Reply-To: References: <9e4bc610-59b4-7b49-b95a-bd03e38f5503@sonic.net> Message-ID: Dear Mark, Due to this article, maybe? https://livecode.com/xlsx-lib-a-bonus-library-included-with-excel-library-in-the-megabundle-offer/ On Sat, 3 Sept 2022 at 17:28, Mark Wieder via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 9/3/22 03:32, zryip theSlug via use-livecode wrote: > > Dear Mark, > > > > Did you try the XLXS Lib instead of the Excel Lib? > > No, why would I have known to try that? > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Zryip TheSlug http://www.aslugontheroad.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Sep 3 16:29:01 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 15:29:01 -0500 Subject: Text to speech In-Reply-To: <93312178-1fe1-a0cf-3be7-22d56173a311@researchware.com> References: <1208fc7b-7f41-131f-5767-d26ada36f378@hyperactivesw.com> <17eef8bf-c4f2-c828-a5fb-1af24dd66f8f@researchware.com> <182faee5e70.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <93312178-1fe1-a0cf-3be7-22d56173a311@researchware.com> Message-ID: On Sep 2, 2022, at 1:24 AM, panagiotis wrote: > Yes, we discussed this topic in August's Problem Solving session. The stack > presented supports text-to-speech in all platforms (including Linux and > Web). I just watched the video and this is exactly what I was looking for. I didn't know until a couple of days ago that I would need to implement speech across all platforms, so I suspect you are either a mind reader or you got ahold of my time warp stack and knew what I was going to ask before I did. Either way, thank you for your prescience. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From marksmithhfx at gmail.com Sat Sep 3 16:37:03 2022 From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 21:37:03 +0100 Subject: Text to speech In-Reply-To: References: <1208fc7b-7f41-131f-5767-d26ada36f378@hyperactivesw.com> <17eef8bf-c4f2-c828-a5fb-1af24dd66f8f@researchware.com> <182faee5e70.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <93312178-1fe1-a0cf-3be7-22d56173a311@researchware.com> Message-ID: Hi Jacque, It’s wonderful when things just “fall into place” like that, isn’t it? I actually had no need for this at present, but I am glad you did. It’s a marvel to see solutions just “fall into your lap”. Happy coding. Mark > On 3 Sep 2022, at 9:29 pm, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > > On Sep 2, 2022, at 1:24 AM, panagiotis wrote: >> Yes, we discussed this topic in August's Problem Solving session. The stack >> presented supports text-to-speech in all platforms (including Linux and >> Web). > > I just watched the video and this is exactly what I was looking for. I didn't know until a couple of days ago that I would need to implement speech across all platforms, so I suspect you are either a mind reader or you got ahold of my time warp stack and knew what I was going to ask before I did. > > Either way, thank you for your prescience. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bogdanoff at me.com Sat Sep 3 17:09:14 2022 From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 14:09:14 -0700 Subject: Text to speech In-Reply-To: <93312178-1fe1-a0cf-3be7-22d56173a311@researchware.com> References: <1208fc7b-7f41-131f-5767-d26ada36f378@hyperactivesw.com> <17eef8bf-c4f2-c828-a5fb-1af24dd66f8f@researchware.com> <182faee5e70.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <93312178-1fe1-a0cf-3be7-22d56173a311@researchware.com> Message-ID: Thanks Paul. I missed the session. And there it is. Peter > On Sep 3, 2022, at 4:53 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > > If you purchased a subscription to the LiveCode Global 22-23 conference, then you can go to livecode.com and login to the store and navigate to your account and you will see "LiveCode Global 22/23 - The Year of Reinvention" under Conferences in the sidebar. All the video's are under there - and I think a way to get the sample files as well. > > > On 9/3/2022 6:12 AM, Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode wrote: >> Hi, where might the August Problem Solving session be found? >> >> Peter Bogdanoff >> ArtsInteractive >> >>> On Sep 2, 2022, at 1:24 AM, panagiotis m via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> Yes, we discussed this topic in August's Problem Solving session. The stack >>> presented supports text-to-speech in all platforms (including Linux and >>> Web). >>> >>> Kind regards, >>> Panos >>> -- >>> >>> On Fri, 2 Sept 2022 at 00:36, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>>> I think it was the July Problem solving session, but it could have been >>>> August's. I think July 14th's session. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 9/1/2022 5:21 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >>>>> Thank you. I keep missing the conferences and I need to watch them >>>>> later. Do you happen to recall which one it was? It sounds like >>>>> exactly what I'm looking for. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>>>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>>>> On September 1, 2022 3:44:56 PM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On 9/1/2022 4:33 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >>>>>>> What library/commands do you use for text to speech? I see that >>>>>>> revSpeak works on Windows and Mac, and the speech library ("speech*") >>>>>>> works on android, iOS, and Mac. What do you use if you want to support >>>>>>> all four platforms? Do you just branch to revSpeak for Windows? >>>>>>> >>>>>> I think Panos just shows how to build a common text to speech library >>>>>> for all platforms from these two built-in in a recent Livecode Global >>>>>> problem solving session. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Sat Sep 3 17:47:33 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 21:47:33 +0000 Subject: Text to speech In-Reply-To: References: <1208fc7b-7f41-131f-5767-d26ada36f378@hyperactivesw.com> <17eef8bf-c4f2-c828-a5fb-1af24dd66f8f@researchware.com> <182faee5e70.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <93312178-1fe1-a0cf-3be7-22d56173a311@researchware.com> Message-ID: <30A33230-7A6A-4A5A-9E94-1FB4ACC0BC3A@iotecdigital.com> I swear I didn’t give him the time warp stack 3 years from now. Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 3, 2022, at 13:30, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > > I just watched the video and this is exactly what I was looking for. I didn't know until a couple of days ago that I would need to implement speech across all platforms, so I suspect you are either a mind reader or you got ahold of my time warp stack and knew what I was going to ask before I did. > > Either way, thank you for your prescience From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Sep 3 19:31:45 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 18:31:45 -0500 Subject: Text to speech In-Reply-To: <30A33230-7A6A-4A5A-9E94-1FB4ACC0BC3A@iotecdigital.com> References: <1208fc7b-7f41-131f-5767-d26ada36f378@hyperactivesw.com> <17eef8bf-c4f2-c828-a5fb-1af24dd66f8f@researchware.com> <182faee5e70.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <93312178-1fe1-a0cf-3be7-22d56173a311@researchware.com> <30A33230-7A6A-4A5A-9E94-1FB4ACC0BC3A@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <15021695-eb58-68ae-94ec-058a7738eed2@hyperactivesw.com> Oh sure, that's what you will have said last time too. :P On 9/3/22 4:47 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > I swear I didn’t give him the time warp stack 3 years from now. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Sep 3, 2022, at 13:30, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >> >> I just watched the video and this is exactly what I was looking for. I didn't know until a couple of days ago that I would need to implement speech across all platforms, so I suspect you are either a mind reader or you got ahold of my time warp stack and knew what I was going to ask before I did. >> >> Either way, thank you for your prescience > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From ahsoftware at sonic.net Sat Sep 3 19:50:37 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 16:50:37 -0700 Subject: Text to speech In-Reply-To: <15021695-eb58-68ae-94ec-058a7738eed2@hyperactivesw.com> References: <1208fc7b-7f41-131f-5767-d26ada36f378@hyperactivesw.com> <17eef8bf-c4f2-c828-a5fb-1af24dd66f8f@researchware.com> <182faee5e70.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <93312178-1fe1-a0cf-3be7-22d56173a311@researchware.com> <30A33230-7A6A-4A5A-9E94-1FB4ACC0BC3A@iotecdigital.com> <15021695-eb58-68ae-94ec-058a7738eed2@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On 9/3/22 16:31, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > Oh sure, that's what you will have said last time too. :P Bob... you gonna have some 'splainin to do... -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ahsoftware at sonic.net Sat Sep 3 23:36:12 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 20:36:12 -0700 Subject: Excel Lib fail In-Reply-To: References: <9e4bc610-59b4-7b49-b95a-bd03e38f5503@sonic.net> Message-ID: <26f62937-4687-39a9-b49a-b4cc98a39259@sonic.net> On 9/3/22 10:35, zryip theSlug via use-livecode wrote: > Dear Mark, > > Due to this article, maybe? > > https://livecode.com/xlsx-lib-a-bonus-library-included-with-excel-library-in-the-megabundle-offer/ Yep. That's it. Thanks. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Sun Sep 4 05:34:40 2022 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2022 19:34:40 +1000 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance Message-ID: <62E382FB-FD7B-4AB5-BF62-7D163102C9B6@optusnet.com.au> So I have conducted a more careful test of the proposed method of standardising fonts across platforms, that is, installing some Google fonts in the standalone for use in labels and fields, with the objective of setting the rects of objects on the development platform and having the same appearance on all 3 platforms: no more missing pixels or wrapped words because of the differences in fonts between the platforms. Unfortunately the method does quite not give the hoped-for solution. Even though the fonts supposedly have the same metrics, the appearance still differs between platforms. For both NotoSans and NotoSerif I find the baselines differ by one or two pixels between Mac Monterey and Windows (which I don’t really understand, since the ascent is built into the font, but nevertheless becomes different when rendered). The pixel lengths of the tested strings were the same however: allowing just a couple of extra pixels height should be sufficient in these cases. However on Linux (Ubuntu), while the baselines were the same, the length of rendered strings differed markedly, in one test case wrapping a trailing word out of sight. And a nasty surprise, the text length on Mac High Sierra was 8% longer than on Monterey! So I’m afraid one must still write once, test everywhere. Neville From sean at pidigital.co.uk Sun Sep 4 07:49:28 2022 From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Pi Digital) Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2022 12:49:28 +0100 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: <62E382FB-FD7B-4AB5-BF62-7D163102C9B6@optusnet.com.au> References: <62E382FB-FD7B-4AB5-BF62-7D163102C9B6@optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <8A444F8B-4F7F-4C71-A844-56245AB3AB71@pidigital.co.uk> I had a quick turnaround job for some guys in Ghana. It made it a complete nightmare as I had done the original build in Windows, their main platform, and they wanted a backup for Mac. As this was for a TV show where the text was dynamic but had to be identical on both it made it almost impossible. I had to write multiple conditionals to allow for the two platforms display differences of baselines and formatting. Now I recommend they only build for a single platform as it is ‘unreasonable’ to expect that two different systems will perform or display in the same way. Your disturbing highlight of the differences in MacOS appearance was not nice though. Well worth knowing but not great for us, eh? Sean > On 4 Sep 2022, at 10:34, Neville Smythe via use-livecode wrote: > > So I have conducted a more careful test of the proposed method of standardising fonts across platforms, that is, installing some Google fonts in the standalone for use in labels and fields, with the objective of setting the rects of objects on the development platform and having the same appearance on all 3 platforms: no more missing pixels or wrapped words because of the differences in fonts between the platforms. > > Unfortunately the method does quite not give the hoped-for solution. Even though the fonts supposedly have the same metrics, the appearance still differs between platforms. For both NotoSans and NotoSerif I find the baselines differ by one or two pixels between Mac Monterey and Windows (which I don’t really understand, since the ascent is built into the font, but nevertheless becomes different when rendered). The pixel lengths of the tested strings were the same however: allowing just a couple of extra pixels height should be sufficient in these cases. However on Linux (Ubuntu), while the baselines were the same, the length of rendered strings differed markedly, in one test case wrapping a trailing word out of sight. And a nasty surprise, the text length on Mac High Sierra was 8% longer than on Monterey! > > So I’m afraid one must still write once, test everywhere. > > Neville > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bogdanoff at me.com Sun Sep 4 15:34:19 2022 From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff) Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2022 12:34:19 -0700 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: <8A444F8B-4F7F-4C71-A844-56245AB3AB71@pidigital.co.uk> References: <62E382FB-FD7B-4AB5-BF62-7D163102C9B6@optusnet.com.au> <8A444F8B-4F7F-4C71-A844-56245AB3AB71@pidigital.co.uk> Message-ID: <968CA950-5C07-4E45-8C3C-D1D2592EB665@me.com> My project, Music In the Air, has text on pages like a book where we need Windows line wrapping to match exactly the Mac so that text flow to the next page is identical. The solution I came up with is to process the text for Windows in advance—add CRs to each visible line of the Mac text field then export the htmlText to the data storage. When that htmlText is set in the Windows field, I also make the field much wider. Now that every visible line ends with a CR, the visible layout of words is the same as Mac. I’m doing this for both English and Chinese characters. (Displaying Chinese characters to properly fill a field of text is a whole ’nother story, but I won’t get into that here.) Peter Bogdanoff ArtsInteractive > On Sep 4, 2022, at 4:49 AM, Pi Digital via use-livecode wrote: > > I had a quick turnaround job for some guys in Ghana. It made it a complete nightmare as I had done the original build in Windows, their main platform, and they wanted a backup for Mac. As this was for a TV show where the text was dynamic but had to be identical on both it made it almost impossible. I had to write multiple conditionals to allow for the two platforms display differences of baselines and formatting. Now I recommend they only build for a single platform as it is ‘unreasonable’ to expect that two different systems will perform or display in the same way. > > Your disturbing highlight of the differences in MacOS appearance was not nice though. Well worth knowing but not great for us, eh? > > Sean > > >> On 4 Sep 2022, at 10:34, Neville Smythe via use-livecode wrote: >> >> So I have conducted a more careful test of the proposed method of standardising fonts across platforms, that is, installing some Google fonts in the standalone for use in labels and fields, with the objective of setting the rects of objects on the development platform and having the same appearance on all 3 platforms: no more missing pixels or wrapped words because of the differences in fonts between the platforms. >> >> Unfortunately the method does quite not give the hoped-for solution. Even though the fonts supposedly have the same metrics, the appearance still differs between platforms. For both NotoSans and NotoSerif I find the baselines differ by one or two pixels between Mac Monterey and Windows (which I don’t really understand, since the ascent is built into the font, but nevertheless becomes different when rendered). The pixel lengths of the tested strings were the same however: allowing just a couple of extra pixels height should be sufficient in these cases. However on Linux (Ubuntu), while the baselines were the same, the length of rendered strings differed markedly, in one test case wrapping a trailing word out of sight. And a nasty surprise, the text length on Mac High Sierra was 8% longer than on Monterey! >> >> So I’m afraid one must still write once, test everywhere. >> >> Neville >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From sean at pidigital.co.uk Sun Sep 4 15:57:50 2022 From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Pi Digital) Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2022 20:57:50 +0100 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: <968CA950-5C07-4E45-8C3C-D1D2592EB665@me.com> References: <968CA950-5C07-4E45-8C3C-D1D2592EB665@me.com> Message-ID: You could try an svg text widget. Just a unsubstantiated thought. Sean Cole Pi Digital > On 4 Sep 2022, at 20:35, Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode wrote: > > My project, Music In the Air, has text on pages like a book where we need Windows line wrapping to match exactly the Mac so that text flow to the next page is identical. > > The solution I came up with is to process the text for Windows in advance—add CRs to each visible line of the Mac text field then export the htmlText to the data storage. When that htmlText is set in the Windows field, I also make the field much wider. Now that every visible line ends with a CR, the visible layout of words is the same as Mac. > > I’m doing this for both English and Chinese characters. (Displaying Chinese characters to properly fill a field of text is a whole ’nother story, but I won’t get into that here.) > > Peter Bogdanoff > ArtsInteractive > >> On Sep 4, 2022, at 4:49 AM, Pi Digital via use-livecode wrote: >> >> I had a quick turnaround job for some guys in Ghana. It made it a complete nightmare as I had done the original build in Windows, their main platform, and they wanted a backup for Mac. As this was for a TV show where the text was dynamic but had to be identical on both it made it almost impossible. I had to write multiple conditionals to allow for the two platforms display differences of baselines and formatting. Now I recommend they only build for a single platform as it is ‘unreasonable’ to expect that two different systems will perform or display in the same way. >> >> Your disturbing highlight of the differences in MacOS appearance was not nice though. Well worth knowing but not great for us, eh? >> >> Sean >> >> >>>> On 4 Sep 2022, at 10:34, Neville Smythe via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> So I have conducted a more careful test of the proposed method of standardising fonts across platforms, that is, installing some Google fonts in the standalone for use in labels and fields, with the objective of setting the rects of objects on the development platform and having the same appearance on all 3 platforms: no more missing pixels or wrapped words because of the differences in fonts between the platforms. >>> >>> Unfortunately the method does quite not give the hoped-for solution. Even though the fonts supposedly have the same metrics, the appearance still differs between platforms. For both NotoSans and NotoSerif I find the baselines differ by one or two pixels between Mac Monterey and Windows (which I don’t really understand, since the ascent is built into the font, but nevertheless becomes different when rendered). The pixel lengths of the tested strings were the same however: allowing just a couple of extra pixels height should be sufficient in these cases. However on Linux (Ubuntu), while the baselines were the same, the length of rendered strings differed markedly, in one test case wrapping a trailing word out of sight. And a nasty surprise, the text length on Mac High Sierra was 8% longer than on Monterey! >>> >>> So I’m afraid one must still write once, test everywhere. >>> >>> Neville >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Sun Sep 4 21:11:56 2022 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2022 11:11:56 +1000 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance Message-ID: Actually it is possible to ensure the baselines of fields are consistent across platforms without having to use conditionals. From experimentation it appears that the baseline is given (relative to the top of the field) by the top margin - 3*fontAscent/4 -1 where the fontAscent is item 2 of measureText(text,fld,”bounds”) (note this is a negative number; in macOS it is the traditional font ascent, in Windows I think it is the traditional font top ) Since the bottom margin is ignored in this placement, we can force the baseline to be at the bottom margin as follows: put the margins of fld “foo" into tMargins put item 4 of tMargins into tBottomMargin put measuretext(fld “foo",fld “foo",bounds) into tFontInfo put 1 + the height of fld “foo” - tBottomMargin + round(3*(item 2 of tFontInfo)/4) into tTopMargin put tTopMargin into item 2 of tMargins set the margins of fld “foo" to tMargins The pixel length of text however cannot be made consistent across platforms, and one can only allow some extra padding to make sure the text appears unmangled. My very limited experiments with just the fonts NotoSans and NotoSerif at textSize 13 and the text “A standard label:” indicate that Mac Monterey and Windows 10 : text widths are the same Mac High Sierra : about 8% longer Linux Ubuntu: about 15% longer (!!) Other fonts differ more widely between platforms and system versions (perhaps most weirdly 13pt Times on the Mac looks like 9pt) Neville Smythe From cubist at aol.com Mon Sep 5 03:01:56 2022 From: cubist at aol.com (Quentin Long) Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2022 07:01:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Cross-platform font handling, and why you don't want to do it References: <367339530.2317548.1662361316808.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <367339530.2317548.1662361316808@mail.yahoo.com> Cross-platform font compatibility is a hellacious rat's nest of mismatches. It may or may not be worse than handling time (Daylight Savings Time? leap years? leap *seconds*? etc, ad nauseum), but it's plenty bad enough on its own merits, or lack thereof. * You can't be 100% confident that your user will have the same font(s) you do installed on their system. * If your user has a font *of the same name* as your font installed on their system, you can't be 100% confident that *their* font came from the same font foundry as *your* font. Yes, font names are legally protected, but... Helvetica, anyone? * If your user has a font *of the same name* as your font installed on their system, you can't be 100% confident that it's the *same* font you have. Again: Font names are legally protected. But what if you have version 15.0 of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont on your system, but your user only has version 1.0 of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont? Who *knows* what tweaks RandomFontFoundry may have made to WhateverFont in between those two version numbers? * Can you be 100% confident that version 15.0 of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont *for Mac* is going to render *exactly the same* as version 15.0 of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont *for Windows* or *for Linux*? No. You cannot. Different type rendering engines on different OSes *ensure* that rendering compatibility will be problematic at best. * Assuming your user has exactly the same version of exactly the same font on exactly the same OS you do, you can't be 100% confident that your user has installed the font metrics data (kerning, sidebearings, etc)—which means you have no idea if the damn thing will look the same on your user's system as on your system. If you want to *ensure* that some piece of text looks *exactly the same* cross-platform, the only way to get there is to format the text the way you want it on one platform, take a screenshot, and use that graphic. But even then, can you be 100% confident that your user *hasn't* tweaked some setting on their system which messes with graphics..? The "take a screenshot" solution is not well-suited for any use-case involving text which varies from time to time, and largely impractical for any use-case involving text which is input by the user. In principle, it should be possible to create a library of glyph-images of all glyphs in a font, and import those glyph-images as necessary—no, mass quantities of "set the imageSource of char X to $GlyphImage" commands ain't gonna fly, cuz letterspacing will look crappy—but that "solution" is tantamount to building your own, redundant, set of text-handling routines. Yuck! If "take a screenshot" doesn't work for you, I suspect the next-best route to achieving Absolute Cross-Platform Font Fidelity may be this: 1) Open up your font in your font-editing utility of choice (Fontographer, Glyphs, FontLab, whatever) 2) Export your font N times, once for each of the *other* OSes you need font compatibility with—WhateverFontMac, WhateverFontWindows, WhateverFontLinux, etc 3) Open up your stack within each of the OSes you're working with, always using the appropriate OS-specific version of your font, and see how different your stack looks on the other OSes 4) Tweak the font metrics on the other-OS versions of your font until your stack looks the same on all OSes 5) When it's time to distribute your stack, be sure to bundle *all* the hand-tuned OS-versions of your font with your stack This procedure is, of course, a royal pain in the arse. Hellacious rat's nest of mismatches, yada yada yada. But regardless of how painful it is? If you need absolute visual fidelity cross-platform, *and* total flexibility in the *content* of text, this procedure may be your least-bad option. As a perhaps-preferable option: 1) Open up your stack on each of the OSes you're striving for font compatibility on 2) Tweak the appearance-relevant text properties (textFont, textHeight, textShift, etc) on each OS until you get an acceptable approximation of identical appearance 3) Make note of the values of all these text properties for each OS 4) Assuming you have however-many fonts specified by fontName, be sure you bundle all those fonts with your stack when you distribute it 5) Include in your stack's preOpenStack handler a switch which includes "case = WhateverOS" for each OS you want font compatibility for 6) Within each OS's "case", set all the appearance-relevant text properties for that OS This procedure is not going to achieve anywhere near the degree of cross-platform font fidelity as the "roll your own" solution above. On the plus side, it's *significantly* less nitpicky/picayune/painful. You puts in your money, and you takes your chances... "Bewitched" + "Charlie's Angels" - Charlie = "At Arm's Length" Read the webcomic at [ http://www.atarmslength.net ]! If you like "At Arm's Length", support it at [ http://www.patreon.com/DarkwingDude ]. From tom at makeshyft.com Mon Sep 5 12:06:07 2022 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2022 12:06:07 -0400 Subject: Cross-platform font handling, and why you don't want to do it In-Reply-To: <367339530.2317548.1662361316808@mail.yahoo.com> References: <367339530.2317548.1662361316808.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <367339530.2317548.1662361316808@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: It seems like you have an approach that can work well, despite being more work. Mainly shipping the fonts, which cancels out most of the issues, but requires handling each case. I don't know if any multi-platform dev tool deals with fonts without any extra hoops. If I recall correctly, flutter did OK, but not perfectly on the 2 mobile platforms, but I've not tested the desktops, which I am guessing will be worse. Hopefully your wrap up can help people to avoid trying to stick ..... the thing in the thing. Good luck to us all. On Mon, Sep 5, 2022 at 3:03 AM Quentin Long via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Cross-platform font compatibility is a hellacious rat's nest of > mismatches. It may or may not be worse than handling time (Daylight Savings > Time? leap years? leap *seconds*? etc, ad nauseum), but it's plenty bad > enough on its own merits, or lack thereof. > * You can't be 100% confident that your user will have the same font(s) > you do installed on their system. > * If your user has a font *of the same name* as your font installed on > their system, you can't be 100% confident that *their* font came from the > same font foundry as *your* font. Yes, font names are legally protected, > but... Helvetica, anyone? > * If your user has a font *of the same name* as your font installed on > their system, you can't be 100% confident that it's the *same* font you > have. Again: Font names are legally protected. But what if you > have version 15.0 of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont on your system, but > your user only has version 1.0 of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont? Who > *knows* what tweaks RandomFontFoundry may have made to WhateverFont in > between those two version numbers? > * Can you be 100% confident that version 15.0 > of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont *for Mac* is going to render *exactly > the same* as version 15.0 of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont *for Windows* > or *for Linux*? No. You cannot. Different type rendering engines on > different OSes *ensure* that rendering compatibility will be problematic at > best. > * Assuming your user has exactly the same version of exactly the same font > on exactly the same OS you do, you can't be 100% confident that your user > has installed the font metrics data (kerning, sidebearings, etc)—which > means you have no idea if the damn thing will look the same on your user's > system as on your system. > If you want to *ensure* that some piece of text looks *exactly the same* > cross-platform, the only way to get there is to format the text the way you > want it on one platform, take a screenshot, and use that graphic. But even > then, can you be 100% confident that your user *hasn't* tweaked some > setting on their system which messes with graphics..? > > The "take a screenshot" solution is not well-suited for any use-case > involving text which varies from time to time, and largely impractical for > any use-case involving text which is input by the user. In principle, it > should be possible to create a library of glyph-images of all glyphs in a > font, and import those glyph-images as necessary—no, mass quantities of > "set the imageSource of char X to $GlyphImage" commands ain't gonna fly, > cuz letterspacing will look crappy—but that "solution" is tantamount to > building your own, redundant, set of text-handling routines. Yuck! > If "take a screenshot" doesn't work for you, I suspect the next-best route > to achieving Absolute Cross-Platform Font Fidelity may be this: > 1) Open up your font in your font-editing utility of choice > (Fontographer, Glyphs, FontLab, whatever) > 2) Export your font N times, once for each of the *other* OSes you need > font compatibility with—WhateverFontMac, WhateverFontWindows, > WhateverFontLinux, etc > 3) Open up your stack within each of the OSes you're working with, always > using the appropriate OS-specific version of your font, and see how > different your stack looks on the other OSes > 4) Tweak the font metrics on the other-OS versions of your font until your > stack looks the same on all OSes > 5) When it's time to distribute your stack, be sure to bundle *all* the > hand-tuned OS-versions of your font with your stack > This procedure is, of course, a royal pain in the arse. Hellacious rat's > nest of mismatches, yada yada yada. But regardless of how painful it is? If > you need absolute visual fidelity cross-platform, *and* total flexibility > in the *content* of text, this procedure may be your least-bad option. > As a perhaps-preferable option: > 1) Open up your stack on each of the OSes you're striving for font > compatibility on > 2) Tweak the appearance-relevant text properties (textFont, textHeight, > textShift, etc) on each OS until you get an acceptable approximation of > identical appearance > 3) Make note of the values of all these text properties for each OS > 4) Assuming you have however-many fonts specified by fontName, be sure you > bundle all those fonts with your stack when you distribute it > 5) Include in your stack's preOpenStack handler a switch which > includes "case = WhateverOS" for each OS you want font compatibility for > 6) Within each OS's "case", set all the appearance-relevant text > properties for that OS > This procedure is not going to achieve anywhere near the degree of > cross-platform font fidelity as the "roll your own" solution above. On the > plus side, it's *significantly* less nitpicky/picayune/painful. You puts in > your money, and you takes your chances... > > "Bewitched" + "Charlie's Angels" - Charlie = "At Arm's Length" Read the > webcomic at [ http://www.atarmslength.net ]! If you like "At Arm's > Length", support it at [ http://www.patreon.com/DarkwingDude ]. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Mon Sep 5 16:54:31 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2022 16:54:31 -0400 Subject: Cross-platform font handling, and why you don't want to do it In-Reply-To: References: <367339530.2317548.1662361316808.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <367339530.2317548.1662361316808@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Other tools that we use have implemented CSS to manage this, but that does not make it easier. fonts have been a menace since we first had x-platform dev tools and meaningful WYSIWYG rendering (Win 95?). at the time, dpi differences made the issue impossible to resolve for smaller fonts, especially. the mechanisms for handling those issues have changed, but it has not gotten better. On Mon, Sep 5, 2022 at 12:07 PM Tom Glod via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > It seems like you have an approach that can work well, despite being more > work. > Mainly shipping the fonts, which cancels out most of the issues, but > requires handling each case. > > I don't know if any multi-platform dev tool deals with fonts without any > extra hoops. > If I recall correctly, flutter did OK, but not perfectly on the 2 mobile > platforms, but I've not tested the desktops, which I am guessing will be > worse. > > Hopefully your wrap up can help people to avoid trying to stick ..... the > thing in the thing. > Good luck to us all. > > > On Mon, Sep 5, 2022 at 3:03 AM Quentin Long via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > Cross-platform font compatibility is a hellacious rat's nest of > > mismatches. It may or may not be worse than handling time (Daylight > Savings > > Time? leap years? leap *seconds*? etc, ad nauseum), but it's plenty bad > > enough on its own merits, or lack thereof. > > * You can't be 100% confident that your user will have the same font(s) > > you do installed on their system. > > * If your user has a font *of the same name* as your font installed on > > their system, you can't be 100% confident that *their* font came from the > > same font foundry as *your* font. Yes, font names are legally protected, > > but... Helvetica, anyone? > > * If your user has a font *of the same name* as your font installed on > > their system, you can't be 100% confident that it's the *same* font you > > have. Again: Font names are legally protected. But what if you > > have version 15.0 of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont on your system, but > > your user only has version 1.0 of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont? Who > > *knows* what tweaks RandomFontFoundry may have made to WhateverFont in > > between those two version numbers? > > * Can you be 100% confident that version 15.0 > > of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont *for Mac* is going to render *exactly > > the same* as version 15.0 of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont *for > Windows* > > or *for Linux*? No. You cannot. Different type rendering engines on > > different OSes *ensure* that rendering compatibility will be problematic > at > > best. > > * Assuming your user has exactly the same version of exactly the same > font > > on exactly the same OS you do, you can't be 100% confident that your user > > has installed the font metrics data (kerning, sidebearings, etc)—which > > means you have no idea if the damn thing will look the same on your > user's > > system as on your system. > > If you want to *ensure* that some piece of text looks *exactly the same* > > cross-platform, the only way to get there is to format the text the way > you > > want it on one platform, take a screenshot, and use that graphic. But > even > > then, can you be 100% confident that your user *hasn't* tweaked some > > setting on their system which messes with graphics..? > > > > The "take a screenshot" solution is not well-suited for any use-case > > involving text which varies from time to time, and largely impractical > for > > any use-case involving text which is input by the user. In principle, it > > should be possible to create a library of glyph-images of all glyphs in a > > font, and import those glyph-images as necessary—no, mass quantities of > > "set the imageSource of char X to $GlyphImage" commands ain't gonna fly, > > cuz letterspacing will look crappy—but that "solution" is tantamount to > > building your own, redundant, set of text-handling routines. Yuck! > > If "take a screenshot" doesn't work for you, I suspect the next-best > route > > to achieving Absolute Cross-Platform Font Fidelity may be this: > > 1) Open up your font in your font-editing utility of choice > > (Fontographer, Glyphs, FontLab, whatever) > > 2) Export your font N times, once for each of the *other* OSes you need > > font compatibility with—WhateverFontMac, WhateverFontWindows, > > WhateverFontLinux, etc > > 3) Open up your stack within each of the OSes you're working with, always > > using the appropriate OS-specific version of your font, and see how > > different your stack looks on the other OSes > > 4) Tweak the font metrics on the other-OS versions of your font until > your > > stack looks the same on all OSes > > 5) When it's time to distribute your stack, be sure to bundle *all* the > > hand-tuned OS-versions of your font with your stack > > This procedure is, of course, a royal pain in the arse. Hellacious rat's > > nest of mismatches, yada yada yada. But regardless of how painful it is? > If > > you need absolute visual fidelity cross-platform, *and* total flexibility > > in the *content* of text, this procedure may be your least-bad option. > > As a perhaps-preferable option: > > 1) Open up your stack on each of the OSes you're striving for font > > compatibility on > > 2) Tweak the appearance-relevant text properties (textFont, textHeight, > > textShift, etc) on each OS until you get an acceptable approximation of > > identical appearance > > 3) Make note of the values of all these text properties for each OS > > 4) Assuming you have however-many fonts specified by fontName, be sure > you > > bundle all those fonts with your stack when you distribute it > > 5) Include in your stack's preOpenStack handler a switch which > > includes "case = WhateverOS" for each OS you want font compatibility for > > 6) Within each OS's "case", set all the appearance-relevant text > > properties for that OS > > This procedure is not going to achieve anywhere near the degree of > > cross-platform font fidelity as the "roll your own" solution above. On > the > > plus side, it's *significantly* less nitpicky/picayune/painful. You puts > in > > your money, and you takes your chances... > > > > "Bewitched" + "Charlie's Angels" - Charlie = "At Arm's Length" Read the > > webcomic at [ http://www.atarmslength.net ]! If you like "At Arm's > > Length", support it at [ http://www.patreon.com/DarkwingDude ]. > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Mon Sep 5 19:22:22 2022 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2022 19:22:22 -0400 Subject: Cross-platform font handling, and why you don't want to do it In-Reply-To: <367339530.2317548.1662361316808@mail.yahoo.com> References: <367339530.2317548.1662361316808.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <367339530.2317548.1662361316808@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002b01d8c17e$5cd850b0$1688f210$@net> Solutions before I tell my tales of woe. Measuretext is a great high speed tool using a field's properties to calculate the width in pixels that the string will occupy when rendered. This can solve many kerning issues. The font size can be adjusted as needed to fit the text into a field without clipping. Measuretext is much faster than doing the measuring directly on the field(formattedWidth) if it has many lines. Baseline and vertical position/size issues are different problems. Mac and Windows use their own font metrics tables for ascent and decent. Android uses Windows table. I don't know but I would assume that iOS uses the Mac(HHead) version. Don't know what Linux uses. Doing height calculations and adjusting the top/bottom field margins gets you there. OR If you have an open source font and font editor, one can diddle the ascent/decent values for Windows and HHead(Mac). This can get you 99%+ identical rendering on Win/Mac. A lot of work for sure. Browsers are another challenge I've seen the need for media calls for specific browsers in the css to make sure text will fit as intended. If you just check Chrome you get 65% of the market. Add Safari you get to 83%. Edge and FireFox get you to 90%. So to get to 90% you need to test 4 browsers, some on at least 5 platforms. I've had headaches and sketchy workarounds for font issues since I got into composition in 1994 with win 3.1, ATM and TT/Type 1 fonts. I had the version problem with I believe Helvetica. Customer used the Adobe v1 version we had the latest vX version. We used their version of the font day one but then bought the entire Adobe font library. Our new users went to the library and suddenly one composer's text for this product flowed differently. WHAT??? After looking at everything else we discovered the version number was different(it was the file date that finally clued us in). The 2 versions(both from Adobe) did indeed kern slightly different. We used InDesign and Word. One displayed the font family name and the other displayed the true font name on their respective font choosers. One would be "Bodini Heavy" the other was "Bodini 55". Confusing for sure. Word will silently substitute a font for a close match on your system if you don’t have the exact font called for. If that person saves the file then when opened on a system with the proper font... the proper font is displayed on the screen but when creating a PDF the wrong font is used. The difference between screen and printed rendering might have been only on type 1 fonts? Don’t remember. The composer and I both try to forget that 10 hours we will never get back trying to figure that one out. Roman Fonts with identical names is a constant issue. Have a TT font and a font with the same name in another format(Type 1/OpenType) on your system(even if they are from the same foundry) and see how that works out. Not good... Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Quentin Long via use-livecode Sent: Monday, September 05, 2022 3:02 AM To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Cc: Quentin Long Subject: Cross-platform font handling, and why you don't want to do it Cross-platform font compatibility is a hellacious rat's nest of mismatches. It may or may not be worse than handling time (Daylight Savings Time? leap years? leap *seconds*? etc, ad nauseum), but it's plenty bad enough on its own merits, or lack thereof. * You can't be 100% confident that your user will have the same font(s) you do installed on their system. * If your user has a font *of the same name* as your font installed on their system, you can't be 100% confident that *their* font came from the same font foundry as *your* font. Yes, font names are legally protected, but... Helvetica, anyone? * If your user has a font *of the same name* as your font installed on their system, you can't be 100% confident that it's the *same* font you have. Again: Font names are legally protected. But what if you have version 15.0 of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont on your system, but your user only has version 1.0 of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont? Who *knows* what tweaks RandomFontFoundry may have made to WhateverFont in between those two version numbers? * Can you be 100% confident that version 15.0 of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont *for Mac* is going to render *exactly the same* as version 15.0 of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont *for Windows* or *for Linux*? No. You cannot. Different type rendering engines on different OSes *ensure* that rendering compatibility will be problematic at best. * Assuming your user has exactly the same version of exactly the same font on exactly the same OS you do, you can't be 100% confident that your user has installed the font metrics data (kerning, sidebearings, etc)—which means you have no idea if the damn thing will look the same on your user's system as on your system. If you want to *ensure* that some piece of text looks *exactly the same* cross-platform, the only way to get there is to format the text the way you want it on one platform, take a screenshot, and use that graphic. But even then, can you be 100% confident that your user *hasn't* tweaked some setting on their system which messes with graphics..? The "take a screenshot" solution is not well-suited for any use-case involving text which varies from time to time, and largely impractical for any use-case involving text which is input by the user. In principle, it should be possible to create a library of glyph-images of all glyphs in a font, and import those glyph-images as necessary—no, mass quantities of "set the imageSource of char X to $GlyphImage" commands ain't gonna fly, cuz letterspacing will look crappy—but that "solution" is tantamount to building your own, redundant, set of text-handling routines. Yuck! If "take a screenshot" doesn't work for you, I suspect the next-best route to achieving Absolute Cross-Platform Font Fidelity may be this: 1) Open up your font in your font-editing utility of choice (Fontographer, Glyphs, FontLab, whatever) 2) Export your font N times, once for each of the *other* OSes you need font compatibility with—WhateverFontMac, WhateverFontWindows, WhateverFontLinux, etc 3) Open up your stack within each of the OSes you're working with, always using the appropriate OS-specific version of your font, and see how different your stack looks on the other OSes 4) Tweak the font metrics on the other-OS versions of your font until your stack looks the same on all OSes 5) When it's time to distribute your stack, be sure to bundle *all* the hand-tuned OS-versions of your font with your stack This procedure is, of course, a royal pain in the arse. Hellacious rat's nest of mismatches, yada yada yada. But regardless of how painful it is? If you need absolute visual fidelity cross-platform, *and* total flexibility in the *content* of text, this procedure may be your least-bad option. As a perhaps-preferable option: 1) Open up your stack on each of the OSes you're striving for font compatibility on 2) Tweak the appearance-relevant text properties (textFont, textHeight, textShift, etc) on each OS until you get an acceptable approximation of identical appearance 3) Make note of the values of all these text properties for each OS 4) Assuming you have however-many fonts specified by fontName, be sure you bundle all those fonts with your stack when you distribute it 5) Include in your stack's preOpenStack handler a switch which includes "case = WhateverOS" for each OS you want font compatibility for 6) Within each OS's "case", set all the appearance-relevant text properties for that OS This procedure is not going to achieve anywhere near the degree of cross-platform font fidelity as the "roll your own" solution above. On the plus side, it's *significantly* less nitpicky/picayune/painful. You puts in your money, and you takes your chances... "Bewitched" + "Charlie's Angels" - Charlie = "At Arm's Length" Read the webcomic at [ http://www.atarmslength.net ]! If you like "At Arm's Length", support it at [ http://www.patreon.com/DarkwingDude ]. _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon Sep 5 20:02:31 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 00:02:31 +0000 Subject: Cross-platform font handling, and why you don't want to do it In-Reply-To: <002b01d8c17e$5cd850b0$1688f210$@net> References: <367339530.2317548.1662361316808.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <367339530.2317548.1662361316808@mail.yahoo.com> <002b01d8c17e$5cd850b0$1688f210$@net> Message-ID: <018C39CA-3EC2-493B-9AF5-B001771684A8@iotecdigital.com> Well, I am not aiming for *exact* visual match. What I WOULD expect is that if Livecode thinks the name of a font on the MacOS is “Aclonica Regular” then it would think the same thing on a Windows system. I’m talking about an embedded font file here. That “Aclonica” without the “regular” works on both platforms raises an eyebrow. Is LC for MacOS getting it wrong, or is Windows? Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 5, 2022, at 16:23, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote: > > Solutions before I tell my tales of woe. > > Measuretext is a great high speed tool using a field's properties to calculate the width in pixels that the string will occupy when rendered. This can solve many kerning issues. The font size can be adjusted as needed to fit the text into a field without clipping. > Measuretext is much faster than doing the measuring directly on the field(formattedWidth) if it has many lines. > > Baseline and vertical position/size issues are different problems. Mac and Windows use their own font metrics tables for ascent and decent. Android uses Windows table. I don't know but I would assume that iOS uses the Mac(HHead) version. Don't know what Linux uses. > Doing height calculations and adjusting the top/bottom field margins gets you there. > OR > If you have an open source font and font editor, one can diddle the ascent/decent values for Windows and HHead(Mac). This can get you 99%+ identical rendering on Win/Mac. A lot of work for sure. > > Browsers are another challenge I've seen the need for media calls for specific browsers in the css to make sure text will fit as intended. If you just check Chrome you get 65% of the market. Add Safari you get to 83%. Edge and FireFox get you to 90%. So to get to 90% you need to test 4 browsers, some on at least 5 platforms. > > > > I've had headaches and sketchy workarounds for font issues since I got into composition in 1994 with win 3.1, ATM and TT/Type 1 fonts. > > I had the version problem with I believe Helvetica. Customer used the Adobe v1 version we had the latest vX version. We used their version of the font day one but then bought the entire Adobe font library. Our new users went to the library and suddenly one composer's text for this product flowed differently. WHAT??? After looking at everything else we discovered the version number was different(it was the file date that finally clued us in). The 2 versions(both from Adobe) did indeed kern slightly different. > > We used InDesign and Word. One displayed the font family name and the other displayed the true font name on their respective font choosers. One would be "Bodini Heavy" the other was "Bodini 55". Confusing for sure. > > Word will silently substitute a font for a close match on your system if you don’t have the exact font called for. If that person saves the file then when opened on a system with the proper font... the proper font is displayed on the screen but when creating a PDF the wrong font is used. The difference between screen and printed rendering might have been only on type 1 fonts? Don’t remember. The composer and I both try to forget that 10 hours we will never get back trying to figure that one out. > > Roman Fonts with identical names is a constant issue. > > Have a TT font and a font with the same name in another format(Type 1/OpenType) on your system(even if they are from the same foundry) and see how that works out. Not good... > > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Quentin Long via use-livecode > Sent: Monday, September 05, 2022 3:02 AM > To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Cc: Quentin Long > Subject: Cross-platform font handling, and why you don't want to do it > > Cross-platform font compatibility is a hellacious rat's nest of mismatches. It may or may not be worse than handling time (Daylight Savings Time? leap years? leap *seconds*? etc, ad nauseum), but it's plenty bad enough on its own merits, or lack thereof. > * You can't be 100% confident that your user will have the same font(s) you do installed on their system. > * If your user has a font *of the same name* as your font installed on their system, you can't be 100% confident that *their* font came from the same font foundry as *your* font. Yes, font names are legally protected, but... Helvetica, anyone? > * If your user has a font *of the same name* as your font installed on their system, you can't be 100% confident that it's the *same* font you have. Again: Font names are legally protected. But what if you have version 15.0 of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont on your system, but your user only has version 1.0 of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont? Who *knows* what tweaks RandomFontFoundry may have made to WhateverFont in between those two version numbers? > * Can you be 100% confident that version 15.0 of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont *for Mac* is going to render *exactly the same* as version 15.0 of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont *for Windows* or *for Linux*? No. You cannot. Different type rendering engines on different OSes *ensure* that rendering compatibility will be problematic at best. > * Assuming your user has exactly the same version of exactly the same font on exactly the same OS you do, you can't be 100% confident that your user has installed the font metrics data (kerning, sidebearings, etc)—which means you have no idea if the damn thing will look the same on your user's system as on your system. > If you want to *ensure* that some piece of text looks *exactly the same* cross-platform, the only way to get there is to format the text the way you want it on one platform, take a screenshot, and use that graphic. But even then, can you be 100% confident that your user *hasn't* tweaked some setting on their system which messes with graphics..? > > The "take a screenshot" solution is not well-suited for any use-case involving text which varies from time to time, and largely impractical for any use-case involving text which is input by the user. In principle, it should be possible to create a library of glyph-images of all glyphs in a font, and import those glyph-images as necessary—no, mass quantities of "set the imageSource of char X to $GlyphImage" commands ain't gonna fly, cuz letterspacing will look crappy—but that "solution" is tantamount to building your own, redundant, set of text-handling routines. Yuck! > If "take a screenshot" doesn't work for you, I suspect the next-best route to achieving Absolute Cross-Platform Font Fidelity may be this: > 1) Open up your font in your font-editing utility of choice (Fontographer, Glyphs, FontLab, whatever) > 2) Export your font N times, once for each of the *other* OSes you need font compatibility with—WhateverFontMac, WhateverFontWindows, WhateverFontLinux, etc > 3) Open up your stack within each of the OSes you're working with, always using the appropriate OS-specific version of your font, and see how different your stack looks on the other OSes > 4) Tweak the font metrics on the other-OS versions of your font until your stack looks the same on all OSes > 5) When it's time to distribute your stack, be sure to bundle *all* the hand-tuned OS-versions of your font with your stack This procedure is, of course, a royal pain in the arse. Hellacious rat's nest of mismatches, yada yada yada. But regardless of how painful it is? If you need absolute visual fidelity cross-platform, *and* total flexibility in the *content* of text, this procedure may be your least-bad option. > As a perhaps-preferable option: > 1) Open up your stack on each of the OSes you're striving for font compatibility on > 2) Tweak the appearance-relevant text properties (textFont, textHeight, textShift, etc) on each OS until you get an acceptable approximation of identical appearance > 3) Make note of the values of all these text properties for each OS > 4) Assuming you have however-many fonts specified by fontName, be sure you bundle all those fonts with your stack when you distribute it > 5) Include in your stack's preOpenStack handler a switch which includes "case = WhateverOS" for each OS you want font compatibility for > 6) Within each OS's "case", set all the appearance-relevant text properties for that OS This procedure is not going to achieve anywhere near the degree of cross-platform font fidelity as the "roll your own" solution above. On the plus side, it's *significantly* less nitpicky/picayune/painful. You puts in your money, and you takes your chances... > > "Bewitched" + "Charlie's Angels" - Charlie = "At Arm's Length" Read the webcomic at [ http://www.atarmslength.net ]! If you like "At Arm's Length", support it at [ http://www.patreon.com/DarkwingDude ]. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Mon Sep 5 21:27:48 2022 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 11:27:48 +1000 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance Message-ID: <32484F73-F203-4BA0-A748-944EF6BF8E42@optusnet.com.au> I agree Quentin, trying to make text appear exactly the same on all platforms is a fools errand. That however is not the main point of the exercise, at least for me. When designing an apps interface, it would be good to know that (at least static) text items will (probably) appear in the same font style and height and the text is all visible: no pixels obscured at top or bottom or left or right, no unintended word-wrapping, and not too close to other objects such as a field border. Including one’s own fonts such as Google fonts, which are probably not in the user’s default system setup — on a desktop at least, and setting the baseline as in a previous post, would seem to be a useful addition to the production process (and may even achieve precise equality between Monterey and Windows 10 if my early experiments hold true! ). But the most important parameter is of course the text length. The usual mantra is to add about 10% extra padding to the field length. I intend to set up a database for a range of fonts and platforms to check just what extra length is really needed (is that figure of 15% for Linux I quoted actually correct, it sounds unbelievable). I have access to Mac Monterey, Mac High Sierra, and Windows 10 and Ubuntu via Parallels. Once done I will publish the database. Hopefully someone could then add data for Window 11 for example ( and iOS and Android) Finally a couple of other comments about fonts on Monterey. I mentioned Times on the Mac being weirdly small. Turns out Times is no longer included in Monterey although it will recognise a scripted setting to Times ; if you set text to 13pt Times it seems the system substitutes Times New Roman 11pt (which looks like 9pt in any other font). And if you set the text to the (Default) font then changes to the textSize of the field have no visible affect, what you get is the default system font at its default size (SF Pro 12pt) Neville From gcanyon at gmail.com Mon Sep 5 22:11:11 2022 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2022 19:11:11 -0700 Subject: Stylistic question. In-Reply-To: <990BFD28-D609-4498-9DF0-A80E605861C4@iotecdigital.com> References: <1818ceeb0b0.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <990BFD28-D609-4498-9DF0-A80E605861C4@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 10:32 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I will however ask for just one enhancement: If I am filtering the list and have an item or items selected, and then I clear the filter, it also clears the selection. It would be great if the selection could be maintained or restored. I checked, and there is code that is supposed to do exactly this. I checked, and at least in the simple scenarios I tried, it works as advertised. Do you have a recipe to make it not work? Note: I think I added this fairly recently, so you probably need the most recent version (or nearly so) for this to work. gc From sean at pidigital.co.uk Tue Sep 6 04:52:25 2022 From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Pi Digital) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 09:52:25 +0100 Subject: Stylistic question. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Arriving late to the conversation. I never put code into buttons other that enough to cover messages. These will only have enough code in them to pass on the rest of the message. Eg on mouseUp pBtn btn_nameOfButtonMUp pBtn end mouseUp on mouseRelease btn_nameOfBtnMRel end mouseRelease Then I’d have the main code in either the card or stack script. Cards and stacks are a lot harder to delete than an object. Too many times I’ve seen objects get deleted accidentally and loose a heap of code. For what it’s worth, my preference is for If/Then/Else rather than Switch/Case/Default. But sometimes it is better, not to mention faster. But even so, for something like an option button I would use on menuPick pOption btn_btnNameMenuP pOption end menuPick Rather than put the switch code into the button. Rebuilding those few lines of code in a lost/deleted button is far easier than trying to remember all of the other operations it could have had in it. I hope you are all well, btw :) Sean Cole Pi Digital From heather at livecode.com Tue Sep 6 05:53:39 2022 From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 10:53:39 +0100 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: <32484F73-F203-4BA0-A748-944EF6BF8E42@optusnet.com.au> References: <32484F73-F203-4BA0-A748-944EF6BF8E42@optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: Neville, That sounds like an incredibly useful exercise. I wonder... could you be persuaded to make that a blog post about fonts across platforms I could put on our website? If yes, contact me offlist :) Best Regards, Heather Heather Laine Customer Services Manager LiveCode Ltd www.livecode.com > On 6 Sep 2022, at 02:27, Neville Smythe via use-livecode wrote: > > I agree Quentin, trying to make text appear exactly the same on all platforms is a fools errand. > > That however is not the main point of the exercise, at least for me. When designing an apps interface, it would be good to know that (at least static) text items will (probably) appear in the same font style and height and the text is all visible: no pixels obscured at top or bottom or left or right, no unintended word-wrapping, and not too close to other objects such as a field border. > > Including one’s own fonts such as Google fonts, which are probably not in the user’s default system setup — on a desktop at least, and setting the baseline as in a previous post, would seem to be a useful addition to the production process (and may even achieve precise equality between Monterey and Windows 10 if my early experiments hold true! ). > > But the most important parameter is of course the text length. The usual mantra is to add about 10% extra padding to the field length. I intend to set up a database for a range of fonts and platforms to check just what extra length is really needed (is that figure of 15% for Linux I quoted actually correct, it sounds unbelievable). I have access to Mac Monterey, Mac High Sierra, and Windows 10 and Ubuntu via Parallels. Once done I will publish the database. Hopefully someone could then add data for Window 11 for example ( and iOS and Android) > > Finally a couple of other comments about fonts on Monterey. I mentioned Times on the Mac being weirdly small. Turns out Times is no longer included in Monterey although it will recognise a scripted setting to Times ; if you set text to 13pt Times it seems the system substitutes Times New Roman 11pt (which looks like 9pt in any other font). > > And if you set the text to the (Default) font then changes to the textSize of the field have no visible affect, what you get is the default system font at its default size (SF Pro 12pt) > > > Neville > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From gcanyon at gmail.com Tue Sep 6 10:55:22 2022 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 07:55:22 -0700 Subject: Stylistic question. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ha, I just realized that I responded to the Navigator part of the conversation without responding to the style part. When I wrote the "convert a control(s) to behaviors" code, I didn't think twice about what to apply it to or not -- I selected everything and converted it all. That was something like five or six years ago, and: Navigator, which I work on seriously, is all behavior scripts. Everything else, which is *not* serious, is zero behavior scripts. I think it needs to be a setting at the IDE level for behaviors to be a thing (for me). For the original question, I always put code in the control that's doing the work, unless it's shared. So utility routines and functions in the card, regular code in the button. From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Sep 6 11:11:54 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 15:11:54 +0000 Subject: Stylistic question. In-Reply-To: References: <1818ceeb0b0.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <990BFD28-D609-4498-9DF0-A80E605861C4@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <87FBDED9-D4FA-4280-AB55-702A7A5DBA09@iotecdigital.com> I'll have a look. Bob S On Sep 5, 2022, at 19:11 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode > wrote: On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 10:32 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: I will however ask for just one enhancement: If I am filtering the list and have an item or items selected, and then I clear the filter, it also clears the selection. It would be great if the selection could be maintained or restored. I checked, and there is code that is supposed to do exactly this. I checked, and at least in the simple scenarios I tried, it works as advertised. Do you have a recipe to make it not work? Note: I think I added this fairly recently, so you probably need the most recent version (or nearly so) for this to work. gc From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Sep 6 11:49:51 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 15:49:51 +0000 Subject: Stylistic question. In-Reply-To: <87FBDED9-D4FA-4280-AB55-702A7A5DBA09@iotecdigital.com> References: <1818ceeb0b0.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <990BFD28-D609-4498-9DF0-A80E605861C4@iotecdigital.com> <87FBDED9-D4FA-4280-AB55-702A7A5DBA09@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <6697AA2B-0FD5-46A1-86CF-381113B80A1E@iotecdigital.com> I went to Github, the latest version is 7.3 RC1 which is what I already had. Not sure where to look for the most recent version. Issue persists for me. Bob S > On Sep 6, 2022, at 08:11 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > I'll have a look. > > Bob S > > > On Sep 5, 2022, at 19:11 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode > wrote: > > On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 10:32 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I will however ask for just one enhancement: If I am filtering the list > and have an item or items selected, and then I clear the filter, it also > clears the selection. It would be great if the selection could be > maintained or restored. > > I checked, and there is code that is supposed to do exactly this. I > checked, and at least in the simple scenarios I tried, it works as > advertised. Do you have a recipe to make it not work? > > Note: I think I added this fairly recently, so you probably need the most > recent version (or nearly so) for this to work. > > gc > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Sep 6 13:13:10 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 17:13:10 +0000 Subject: Cross-platform font handling, and why you don't want to do it In-Reply-To: <018C39CA-3EC2-493B-9AF5-B001771684A8@iotecdigital.com> References: <367339530.2317548.1662361316808.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <367339530.2317548.1662361316808@mail.yahoo.com> <002b01d8c17e$5cd850b0$1688f210$@net> <018C39CA-3EC2-493B-9AF5-B001771684A8@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Sorry to drag this thread on, but it appears that using embedded fonts is worse that I first imagined. After I had set all my label fields to Acme, I repositioned them so that they were contacting the field to the right of them, and I right aligned them all so they had a consistent look. I just noticed however that when I quit Livecode, then relaunch it and open the stack, all the text of the labels appear out of alignment! If I open the Property Editor and select the Font tab, then click one of the labels in Edit mode, the text realigns correctly! As I click each label, that text also realigns. If I set a label to the default system font, this does not happen. That sucks. Big time. At this point I do not know if it is just this particular font, or if it happens to all embedded fonts, but I am fairly taken back. Bob S On Sep 5, 2022, at 17:02 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode > wrote: Well, I am not aiming for *exact* visual match. What I WOULD expect is that if Livecode thinks the name of a font on the MacOS is “Aclonica Regular” then it would think the same thing on a Windows system. I’m talking about an embedded font file here. That “Aclonica” without the “regular” works on both platforms raises an eyebrow. Is LC for MacOS getting it wrong, or is Windows? Sent from my iPhone From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Tue Sep 6 14:59:35 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 14:59:35 -0400 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: <003801d8be28$c8632660$59297320$@net> References: <816C27F1-2EFD-47F9-A507-46245A41158A@gmail.com> <69F805E3-DF6D-4403-BE3E-84CAB718344B@milby7.com> <003801d8be28$c8632660$59297320$@net> Message-ID: Ralph, got the source, somewhere? i'd like to learn from it. testing to begin...now. On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 1:32 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I took a major stab at LCB and created a new widget based on the navbar > widget. I have made 2 changes to the navbar and call it navrad. It does not > modify the stock navbar. With almost no docs it was a challenge. There were > so many unknowns I got a few giant headaches. It adds 4 new > properties(iconFill,autoRADHilite,preHilitedItem, preHilitedItemName) and 1 > new message(preHiliteChanged). I updated the documentation so the new > properties and message show in the dictionary with example(search for > "navrad" or just "rad"). > One thing I ran into was that I had to call the "autohilite" property > autoRADHilite because using any existing property causes a confilict that I > could not get around without sufficient docs. It does show in the property > inspector as "auto hilite". These changes allow 1)enlarge/center the icon > if there is no label 2)intercept a selection before it is hilited and make > a choice to hilite and send the stock hiliteChanged message (or not). Why > no label? For one social media icons don’t need labels. Why a pre message? > Someone suggested it and I thought it was a great idea. Backwards > compatible with existing navbar LCS code. The was an auto sizing to card > width request. I will look to see if I can do it without more docs(or help). > > If anyone would like to try it and find any bugs it's at ==> > https://www.dropbox.com/s/51zm4m8dip49jov/com.livecode.widget.navrad.2.0.0.lce?dl=0 > > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Tue Sep 6 15:28:51 2022 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 15:28:51 -0400 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <816C27F1-2EFD-47F9-A507-46245A41158A@gmail.com> <69F805E3-DF6D-4403-BE3E-84CAB718344B@milby7.com> <003801d8be28$c8632660$59297320$@net> Message-ID: <005a01d8c226$e8596c70$b90c4550$@net> Mike, For future reference the source is in the .lce file. The .lce is in zip format. Temporarily change the extension to .zip. You will see the lcb file in there. Also when you install it the source will be in the extension folder. But since I posted .lce I have put in comments starting with "RAD Change" to show where I have made changes. Here is the link to the updated source==>https://www.dropbox.com/s/bv930usovpruo5e/navrad.lcb?dl=0 Thanks for taking a look! Also I found that after I updated the docs that the docs are generated from the lcb file. I re-built the widget and boom my doc changes were destroyed. No problem I just had redo the docs for my changes in the lcb file. So many unknowns. I am trying to find a way to resize it to the card width with a user setting for height percent of card width. But the docs are so scant and confusing I feel the giant headache coming on again. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2022 3:00 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Mike Kerner Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual Ralph, got the source, somewhere? i'd like to learn from it. testing to begin...now. On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 1:32 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I took a major stab at LCB and created a new widget based on the > navbar widget. I have made 2 changes to the navbar and call it navrad. > It does not modify the stock navbar. With almost no docs it was a > challenge. There were so many unknowns I got a few giant headaches. It > adds 4 new properties(iconFill,autoRADHilite,preHilitedItem, > preHilitedItemName) and 1 new message(preHiliteChanged). I updated the > documentation so the new properties and message show in the dictionary > with example(search for "navrad" or just "rad"). > One thing I ran into was that I had to call the "autohilite" property > autoRADHilite because using any existing property causes a confilict > that I could not get around without sufficient docs. It does show in > the property inspector as "auto hilite". These changes allow > 1)enlarge/center the icon if there is no label 2)intercept a selection > before it is hilited and make a choice to hilite and send the stock > hiliteChanged message (or not). Why no label? For one social media icons don’t need labels. Why a pre message? > Someone suggested it and I thought it was a great idea. Backwards > compatible with existing navbar LCS code. The was an auto sizing to > card width request. I will look to see if I can do it without more docs(or help). > > If anyone would like to try it and find any bugs it's at ==> > https://www.dropbox.com/s/51zm4m8dip49jov/com.livecode.widget.navrad.2 > .0.0.lce?dl=0 > > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From brian at milby7.com Tue Sep 6 15:59:41 2022 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 15:59:41 -0400 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: <005a01d8c226$e8596c70$b90c4550$@net> References: <005a01d8c226$e8596c70$b90c4550$@net> Message-ID: <327C82F3-CA0F-4108-8F46-1372C69F0691@milby7.com> I think the user is going to need to code the width adjustment in the resizeStack handler. Widgets can’t change their rect on their own. It has to happen from the LCS side. Brian Milby brian at milby7.com > On Sep 6, 2022, at 3:29 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote: > > Mike, > > For future reference the source is in the .lce file. The .lce is in zip format. Temporarily change the extension to .zip. You will see the lcb file in there. Also when you install it the source will be in the extension folder. But since I posted .lce I have put in comments starting with "RAD Change" to show where I have made changes. Here is the link to the updated source==>https://www.dropbox.com/s/bv930usovpruo5e/navrad.lcb?dl=0 > > Thanks for taking a look! > > Also I found that after I updated the docs that the docs are generated from the lcb file. I re-built the widget and boom my doc changes were destroyed. No problem I just had redo the docs for my changes in the lcb file. So many unknowns. I am trying to find a way to resize it to the card width with a user setting for height percent of card width. But the docs are so scant and confusing I feel the giant headache coming on again. > > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode > Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2022 3:00 PM > To: How to use LiveCode > Cc: Mike Kerner > Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual > > Ralph, > got the source, somewhere? i'd like to learn from it. > testing to begin...now. > >> On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 1:32 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >> I took a major stab at LCB and created a new widget based on the >> navbar widget. I have made 2 changes to the navbar and call it navrad. >> It does not modify the stock navbar. With almost no docs it was a >> challenge. There were so many unknowns I got a few giant headaches. It >> adds 4 new properties(iconFill,autoRADHilite,preHilitedItem, >> preHilitedItemName) and 1 new message(preHiliteChanged). I updated the >> documentation so the new properties and message show in the dictionary >> with example(search for "navrad" or just "rad"). >> One thing I ran into was that I had to call the "autohilite" property >> autoRADHilite because using any existing property causes a confilict >> that I could not get around without sufficient docs. It does show in >> the property inspector as "auto hilite". These changes allow >> 1)enlarge/center the icon if there is no label 2)intercept a selection >> before it is hilited and make a choice to hilite and send the stock >> hiliteChanged message (or not). Why no label? For one social media icons don’t need labels. Why a pre message? >> Someone suggested it and I thought it was a great idea. Backwards >> compatible with existing navbar LCS code. The was an auto sizing to >> card width request. I will look to see if I can do it without more docs(or help). >> >> If anyone would like to try it and find any bugs it's at ==> >> https://www.dropbox.com/s/51zm4m8dip49jov/com.livecode.widget.navrad.2 >> .0.0.lce?dl=0 >> >> >> Ralph DiMola >> IT Director >> Evergreen Information Services >> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Sep 6 16:19:41 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 20:19:41 +0000 Subject: Cross-platform font handling, and why you don't want to do it In-Reply-To: References: <367339530.2317548.1662361316808.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <367339530.2317548.1662361316808@mail.yahoo.com> <002b01d8c17e$5cd850b0$1688f210$@net> <018C39CA-3EC2-493B-9AF5-B001771684A8@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <943D02FC-205D-49BB-A5D1-8B0611945566@iotecdigital.com> I did some testing. It only happens when loading font files for the first time in a Livecode session from a script on MacOS. Once the font files are loaded, I can close and reopen the stack and the appearance is correct. It does NOT happen on Windows, nor does it happen with any fonts that are installed in the system. But it gets worse. The fonts do not get included in a MacOS standalone, even when I add them to the Copy Files section of the Standalone Application Settings of both the splash stack, and the main stack. Custom Font Support needs a real overhaul. I have already submitted an issue with support. Bob S On Sep 6, 2022, at 10:13 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode > wrote: Sorry to drag this thread on, but it appears that using embedded fonts is worse that I first imagined. After I had set all my label fields to Acme, I repositioned them so that they were contacting the field to the right of them, and I right aligned them all so they had a consistent look. I just noticed however that when I quit Livecode, then relaunch it and open the stack, all the text of the labels appear out of alignment! If I open the Property Editor and select the Font tab, then click one of the labels in Edit mode, the text realigns correctly! As I click each label, that text also realigns. If I set a label to the default system font, this does not happen. That sucks. Big time. At this point I do not know if it is just this particular font, or if it happens to all embedded fonts, but I am fairly taken back. Bob S From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Tue Sep 6 16:19:26 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 16:19:26 -0400 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: <327C82F3-CA0F-4108-8F46-1372C69F0691@milby7.com> References: <005a01d8c226$e8596c70$b90c4550$@net> <327C82F3-CA0F-4108-8F46-1372C69F0691@milby7.com> Message-ID: by the way, isn't it crazy how much overhead is required with lcb widgets? there is so...much...stuff you have to put on top just to get to the heart of the thing. and i'm never going to like the way lc embeds the comments in the source of anything. or the way they spell "favourites", or pronounce "Aluminum". Do you see an extra "i" in there? No? It's invisible, that's why. On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:00 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I think the user is going to need to code the width adjustment in the > resizeStack handler. Widgets can’t change their rect on their own. It has > to happen from the LCS side. > > Brian Milby > brian at milby7.com > > > On Sep 6, 2022, at 3:29 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > Mike, > > > > For future reference the source is in the .lce file. The .lce is in zip > format. Temporarily change the extension to .zip. You will see the lcb file > in there. Also when you install it the source will be in the extension > folder. But since I posted .lce I have put in comments starting with "RAD > Change" to show where I have made changes. Here is the link to the updated > source==>https://www.dropbox.com/s/bv930usovpruo5e/navrad.lcb?dl=0 > > > > Thanks for taking a look! > > > > Also I found that after I updated the docs that the docs are generated > from the lcb file. I re-built the widget and boom my doc changes were > destroyed. No problem I just had redo the docs for my changes in the lcb > file. So many unknowns. I am trying to find a way to resize it to the card > width with a user setting for height percent of card width. But the docs > are so scant and confusing I feel the giant headache coming on again. > > > > > > Ralph DiMola > > IT Director > > Evergreen Information Services > > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On > Behalf Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode > > Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2022 3:00 PM > > To: How to use LiveCode > > Cc: Mike Kerner > > Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual > > > > Ralph, > > got the source, somewhere? i'd like to learn from it. > > testing to begin...now. > > > >> On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 1:32 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> > >> I took a major stab at LCB and created a new widget based on the > >> navbar widget. I have made 2 changes to the navbar and call it navrad. > >> It does not modify the stock navbar. With almost no docs it was a > >> challenge. There were so many unknowns I got a few giant headaches. It > >> adds 4 new properties(iconFill,autoRADHilite,preHilitedItem, > >> preHilitedItemName) and 1 new message(preHiliteChanged). I updated the > >> documentation so the new properties and message show in the dictionary > >> with example(search for "navrad" or just "rad"). > >> One thing I ran into was that I had to call the "autohilite" property > >> autoRADHilite because using any existing property causes a confilict > >> that I could not get around without sufficient docs. It does show in > >> the property inspector as "auto hilite". These changes allow > >> 1)enlarge/center the icon if there is no label 2)intercept a selection > >> before it is hilited and make a choice to hilite and send the stock > >> hiliteChanged message (or not). Why no label? For one social media > icons don’t need labels. Why a pre message? > >> Someone suggested it and I thought it was a great idea. Backwards > >> compatible with existing navbar LCS code. The was an auto sizing to > >> card width request. I will look to see if I can do it without more > docs(or help). > >> > >> If anyone would like to try it and find any bugs it's at ==> > >> https://www.dropbox.com/s/51zm4m8dip49jov/com.livecode.widget.navrad.2 > >> .0.0.lce?dl=0 > >> > >> > >> Ralph DiMola > >> IT Director > >> Evergreen Information Services > >> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second > day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From ahsoftware at sonic.net Tue Sep 6 16:38:40 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 13:38:40 -0700 Subject: alumin(i)um In-Reply-To: References: <005a01d8c226$e8596c70$b90c4550$@net> <327C82F3-CA0F-4108-8F46-1372C69F0691@milby7.com> Message-ID: <4553a5e4-dcc6-ff73-93f9-78893e040f8f@sonic.net> On 9/6/22 13:19, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > or the way they spell "favourites", or pronounce "Aluminum". Do you see an > extra "i" in there? No? It's invisible, that's why. Yeah. About that. The "aluminium" version actually preceded "aluminum" by several years, so if anything the U.S. version is actually the weird one. There are very few other elements that veer from the standard "ium" suffix into just "um": molybdenum, lanthanum,, tantalum, platinum, and all of those are transition metals. https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/aluminum-vs-aluminium -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Sep 6 16:53:33 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 20:53:33 +0000 Subject: alumin(i)um In-Reply-To: <4553a5e4-dcc6-ff73-93f9-78893e040f8f@sonic.net> References: <005a01d8c226$e8596c70$b90c4550$@net> <327C82F3-CA0F-4108-8F46-1372C69F0691@milby7.com> <4553a5e4-dcc6-ff73-93f9-78893e040f8f@sonic.net> Message-ID: Excerpt from WordOrigins.org: In 1808, British chemist Humphry Davy postulated the existence of a metallic form of alumina ore, which he dubbed alumium. Davy later changed the name to aluminum. He writes in his 1812 Elements of Chemical Philosophy: "As yet Aluminum has not been obtained in a perfectly free state." Yet that same year, other British chemists settled on the name aluminium, the ending of which they thought was more consistent with the other elements. So the theoretical substance was dubbed Aluminum first, but other scientists decided to call it Aluminium, even though no one knew if it existed or could exist yet. Bob S > On Sep 6, 2022, at 13:38 , Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > > On 9/6/22 13:19, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > >> or the way they spell "favourites", or pronounce "Aluminum". Do you see an >> extra "i" in there? No? It's invisible, that's why. > > Yeah. About that. > The "aluminium" version actually preceded "aluminum" by several years, so if anything the U.S. version is actually the weird one. There are very few other elements that veer from the standard "ium" suffix into just "um": molybdenum, lanthanum,, tantalum, platinum, and all of those are transition metals. > > https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/aluminum-vs-aluminium > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Sep 6 16:58:13 2022 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 23:58:13 +0300 Subject: alumin(i)um In-Reply-To: References: <005a01d8c226$e8596c70$b90c4550$@net> <327C82F3-CA0F-4108-8F46-1372C69F0691@milby7.com> <4553a5e4-dcc6-ff73-93f9-78893e040f8f@sonic.net> Message-ID: Well, in Scots it's "alumeenium", which just sounds like a Scot suffered from bad spelling. On Tue, 6 Sept 2022, 23:54 Bob Sneidar via use-livecode, < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Excerpt from WordOrigins.org: > > In 1808, British chemist Humphry Davy postulated the existence of a > metallic form of alumina ore, which he dubbed alumium. > > Davy later changed the name to aluminum. He writes in his 1812 Elements of > Chemical Philosophy: "As yet Aluminum has not been obtained in a perfectly > free state." > > Yet that same year, other British chemists settled on the name aluminium, > the ending of which they thought was more consistent with the other > elements. > > So the theoretical substance was dubbed Aluminum first, but other > scientists decided to call it Aluminium, even though no one knew if it > existed or could exist yet. > > Bob S > > > > > On Sep 6, 2022, at 13:38 , Mark Wieder via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > On 9/6/22 13:19, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > > >> or the way they spell "favourites", or pronounce "Aluminum". Do you see > an > >> extra "i" in there? No? It's invisible, that's why. > > > > Yeah. About that. > > The "aluminium" version actually preceded "aluminum" by several years, > so if anything the U.S. version is actually the weird one. There are very > few other elements that veer from the standard "ium" suffix into just "um": > molybdenum, lanthanum,, tantalum, platinum, and all of those are transition > metals. > > > > https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/aluminum-vs-aluminium > > > > -- > > Mark Wieder > > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From harrison at all-auctions.com Tue Sep 6 17:36:32 2022 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 17:36:32 -0400 Subject: Standalone Application Error In-Reply-To: References: <367339530.2317548.1662361316808.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <367339530.2317548.1662361316808@mail.yahoo.com> <002b01d8c17e$5cd850b0$1688f210$@net> <018C39CA-3EC2-493B-9AF5-B001771684A8@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <11AECC76-E8F3-41D5-826E-6AD38E436C20@all-auctions.com> Greetings LiveCoders, I came up against this error today: There was an error while saving the standalone application Adding ad-hoc signature failed with error: (path name to app): replacing existing signature xcrun: error: invalid active developer path (/Library/Developer/CommandLineTools), missing xcrun at: /Library/Developer/CommandLineTools/usr/bin/xcrun (path name to app): the codesign_allocate helper tool cannot be found or used In subcomponent (path name to app):/Contents/MacOS/revsecurity.dylib Is this just saying I don’t have Xcode installed, or is more complex than that? The program works fine in the IDE, I just can’t build the standalone. Anyone else ever get this one? Thanks, Rick From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Tue Sep 6 18:00:05 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2022 00:00:05 +0200 Subject: Standalone Application Error In-Reply-To: <11AECC76-E8F3-41D5-826E-6AD38E436C20@all-auctions.com> References: <367339530.2317548.1662361316808.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <367339530.2317548.1662361316808@mail.yahoo.com> <002b01d8c17e$5cd850b0$1688f210$@net> <018C39CA-3EC2-493B-9AF5-B001771684A8@iotecdigital.com> <11AECC76-E8F3-41D5-826E-6AD38E436C20@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: <142F9442-6D73-488E-B418-8DC76A529E46@m-r-d.de> You need at least the xCode command line tools installed. If you have an Apple Developer account, then please see here https://developer.apple.com/download/all/?q=command%20line%20tools to see all avaiables versions of the command line tools. Please download the one that is supported by your Livecode version (see the LC release notes for xCode support). Regards, Matthias > Am 06.09.2022 um 23:36 schrieb harrison--- via use-livecode : > > Greetings LiveCoders, > > I came up against this error today: > > There was an error while saving the standalone application > Adding ad-hoc signature failed with error: > (path name to app): replacing existing signature > xcrun: error: invalid active developer path (/Library/Developer/CommandLineTools), missing xcrun at: > /Library/Developer/CommandLineTools/usr/bin/xcrun > (path name to app): the codesign_allocate helper tool > cannot be found or used > In subcomponent > (path name to app):/Contents/MacOS/revsecurity.dylib > > Is this just saying I don’t have Xcode installed, or is > more complex than that? > > The program works fine in the IDE, I just can’t build the standalone. > > Anyone else ever get this one? > > Thanks, > > Rick > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From harrison at all-auctions.com Tue Sep 6 18:03:33 2022 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 18:03:33 -0400 Subject: Standalone Application Error In-Reply-To: <142F9442-6D73-488E-B418-8DC76A529E46@m-r-d.de> References: <367339530.2317548.1662361316808.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <367339530.2317548.1662361316808@mail.yahoo.com> <002b01d8c17e$5cd850b0$1688f210$@net> <018C39CA-3EC2-493B-9AF5-B001771684A8@iotecdigital.com> <11AECC76-E8F3-41D5-826E-6AD38E436C20@all-auctions.com> <142F9442-6D73-488E-B418-8DC76A529E46@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <587889E0-1A03-49D3-A631-F43B6DD95B03@all-auctions.com> Hi Matthias, I will do that. Thanks! Rick > On Sep 6, 2022, at 6:00 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > > You need at least the xCode command line tools installed. > > If you have an Apple Developer account, then please see > here > https://developer.apple.com/download/all/?q=command%20line%20tools > > to see all avaiables versions of the command line tools. > > Please download the one that is supported by your Livecode version (see the LC release notes for xCode support). > > Regards, > Matthias > > >> Am 06.09.2022 um 23:36 schrieb harrison--- via use-livecode : >> >> Greetings LiveCoders, >> >> I came up against this error today: >> >> There was an error while saving the standalone application >> Adding ad-hoc signature failed with error: >> (path name to app): replacing existing signature >> xcrun: error: invalid active developer path (/Library/Developer/CommandLineTools), missing xcrun at: >> /Library/Developer/CommandLineTools/usr/bin/xcrun >> (path name to app): the codesign_allocate helper tool >> cannot be found or used >> In subcomponent >> (path name to app):/Contents/MacOS/revsecurity.dylib >> >> Is this just saying I don’t have Xcode installed, or is >> more complex than that? >> >> The program works fine in the IDE, I just can’t build the standalone. >> >> Anyone else ever get this one? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Rick >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ahsoftware at sonic.net Tue Sep 6 18:22:29 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 15:22:29 -0700 Subject: alumin(i)um In-Reply-To: References: <005a01d8c226$e8596c70$b90c4550$@net> <327C82F3-CA0F-4108-8F46-1372C69F0691@milby7.com> <4553a5e4-dcc6-ff73-93f9-78893e040f8f@sonic.net> Message-ID: On 9/6/22 13:53, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > So the theoretical substance was dubbed Aluminum first That's "alumium" first. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Sep 6 18:30:50 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 15:30:50 -0700 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: <1AF693E6-CD76-4434-AEDE-B7E3DADF4C42@iotecdigital.com> References: <1AF693E6-CD76-4434-AEDE-B7E3DADF4C42@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <2dea7721-befc-e4da-8689-76510550550f@fourthworld.com> Bob Sneidar wrote: > That's great for buttons. I'd like to implement something for all > objects. My goal is to be able to offer the end user a way to change > their "motif" with a single click. Imagine being able to set the > properties of an object designated as a "class object", the object > then getting a propertyChanged message, and then having that > propertyChanged handler trigger the change of all the subscribed > properties of all the objects that are an instance of that class or > sub-class. Sounds very much like the way word processors manage styles: define a set of attributes, assign a name to the set, apply that set by name to selections as you go. If a change is needed just edit the style definition, click "Save Changes", and the changes are propagated to all objects to which that style has been assigned. Do I understand the desired workflow? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Sep 6 18:32:53 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 22:32:53 +0000 Subject: alumin(i)um In-Reply-To: References: <005a01d8c226$e8596c70$b90c4550$@net> <327C82F3-CA0F-4108-8F46-1372C69F0691@milby7.com> <4553a5e4-dcc6-ff73-93f9-78893e040f8f@sonic.net> Message-ID: <382FB6AA-7BD3-48B8-9A60-22C12E55AFB8@iotecdigital.com> I mean first before Alunimium. Bob S On Sep 6, 2022, at 15:22 , Mark Wieder via use-livecode > wrote: On 9/6/22 13:53, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: So the theoretical substance was dubbed Aluminum first That's "alumium" first. -- Mark Wieder From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Sep 6 18:34:30 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 22:34:30 +0000 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: <2dea7721-befc-e4da-8689-76510550550f@fourthworld.com> References: <1AF693E6-CD76-4434-AEDE-B7E3DADF4C42@iotecdigital.com> <2dea7721-befc-e4da-8689-76510550550f@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <84A3D906-ECAB-4B29-91C0-CC62292EEF99@iotecdigital.com> Yes but I had more in mind then display properties like font size and style. Bob S On Sep 6, 2022, at 15:30 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode > wrote: Bob Sneidar wrote: > That's great for buttons. I'd like to implement something for all > objects. My goal is to be able to offer the end user a way to change > their "motif" with a single click. Imagine being able to set the > properties of an object designated as a "class object", the object > then getting a propertyChanged message, and then having that > propertyChanged handler trigger the change of all the subscribed > properties of all the objects that are an instance of that class or > sub-class. Sounds very much like the way word processors manage styles: define a set of attributes, assign a name to the set, apply that set by name to selections as you go. If a change is needed just edit the style definition, click "Save Changes", and the changes are propagated to all objects to which that style has been assigned. Do I understand the desired workflow? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Tue Sep 6 19:32:36 2022 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2022 09:32:36 +1000 Subject: Cross-platform font handling, and why you don't want to do it Message-ID: Bob Sneider wrote: > The fonts do not get included in a MacOS standalone embedding fonts in a Mac standalone worked fine for me. Have you checked that the fonts are actually in /Contents/Resources/_MacOS/ and your file path when loading is correct On the IDE problem > when I quit Livecode, then relaunch it and open the stack, all the text of the labels appear out of alignment! sounds like a timing problem about what resources are available when LiveCode launches and your stack gets to do its font loading (in a pre-open stack handler?) and that the timing on Windows launch is just different. Neville Smythe From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Sep 6 19:48:06 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 23:48:06 +0000 Subject: Cross-platform font handling, and why you don't want to do it In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45B3C86D-256B-4576-845F-7431AD75D9A3@iotecdigital.com> I'm going through my code and disabling the places where I check if a standalone is being built. I put that in there to try and get around the problem where I get alerted that stacks are in use, but that code doesn't work anyway. I still have to build one platform at a time, quitting LC between each. I think that the build code is somehow not seeing that I am loading font files in the preOpenStack handler. Bob S On Sep 6, 2022, at 16:32 , Neville Smythe via use-livecode > wrote: Bob Sneider wrote: The fonts do not get included in a MacOS standalone embedding fonts in a Mac standalone worked fine for me. Have you checked that the fonts are actually in /Contents/Resources/_MacOS/ and your file path when loading is correct From gcanyon at gmail.com Wed Sep 7 03:16:22 2022 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2022 00:16:22 -0700 Subject: Stylistic question. In-Reply-To: <6697AA2B-0FD5-46A1-86CF-381113B80A1E@iotecdigital.com> References: <1818ceeb0b0.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <990BFD28-D609-4498-9DF0-A80E605861C4@iotecdigital.com> <87FBDED9-D4FA-4280-AB55-702A7A5DBA09@iotecdigital.com> <6697AA2B-0FD5-46A1-86CF-381113B80A1E@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Okay, I figured it out. When Navigator is displaying whatever the contents are of the current card (its default state) it syncs the selection with the selected controls. This goes both ways, so it's important not to get stuck in a loop: Navigator sets the selected controls, which in turn triggers Navigator to update its selection, which sets the selected controls, and so on. My code set a flag when changing the selection to stop that endless cycle, and that flag was stopping updates when the filter changes. So selections were retained when a specific card or group was displayed, but not retained when showing the top card "live". I've fixed this I think. I've also fixed named bookmark sets. I want to add an option on stacks to display all cards within the stack (and maybe all controls within the stack). And I want to run some tests on how fast Navigator is at this point, and do some regression testing, and then I'll release an update. Thanks for the report! gc On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 8:50 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I went to Github, the latest version is 7.3 RC1 which is what I already > had. Not sure where to look for the most recent version. Issue persists for > me. > > Bob S > > > > On Sep 6, 2022, at 08:11 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > I'll have a look. > > > > Bob S > > > > > > On Sep 5, 2022, at 19:11 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> > wrote: > > > > On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 10:32 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> > wrote: > > I will however ask for just one enhancement: If I am filtering the list > > and have an item or items selected, and then I clear the filter, it also > > clears the selection. It would be great if the selection could be > > maintained or restored. > > > > I checked, and there is code that is supposed to do exactly this. I > > checked, and at least in the simple scenarios I tried, it works as > > advertised. Do you have a recipe to make it not work? > > > > Note: I think I added this fairly recently, so you probably need the most > > recent version (or nearly so) for this to work. > > > > gc > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Sep 7 11:03:23 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2022 15:03:23 +0000 Subject: Stylistic question. In-Reply-To: References: <1818ceeb0b0.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <990BFD28-D609-4498-9DF0-A80E605861C4@iotecdigital.com> <87FBDED9-D4FA-4280-AB55-702A7A5DBA09@iotecdigital.com> <6697AA2B-0FD5-46A1-86CF-381113B80A1E@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Awesome good job. Bob S > On Sep 7, 2022, at 24:16 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode wrote: > > Okay, I figured it out. When Navigator is displaying whatever the contents > are of the current card (its default state) it syncs the selection with the > selected controls. This goes both ways, so it's important not to get stuck > in a loop: Navigator sets the selected controls, which in turn triggers > Navigator to update its selection, which sets the selected controls, and so > on. > > My code set a flag when changing the selection to stop that endless cycle, > and that flag was stopping updates when the filter changes. > > So selections were retained when a specific card or group was displayed, > but not retained when showing the top card "live". > > I've fixed this I think. I've also fixed named bookmark sets. I want to add > an option on stacks to display all cards within the stack (and maybe all > controls within the stack). And I want to run some tests on how fast > Navigator is at this point, and do some regression testing, and then I'll > release an update. > > Thanks for the report! > > gc > > On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 8:50 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> I went to Github, the latest version is 7.3 RC1 which is what I already >> had. Not sure where to look for the most recent version. Issue persists for >> me. >> >> Bob S >> >> >>> On Sep 6, 2022, at 08:11 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>> I'll have a look. >>> >>> Bob S >>> >>> >>> On Sep 5, 2022, at 19:11 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> >> wrote: >>> >>> On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 10:32 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> >> wrote: >>> I will however ask for just one enhancement: If I am filtering the list >>> and have an item or items selected, and then I clear the filter, it also >>> clears the selection. It would be great if the selection could be >>> maintained or restored. >>> >>> I checked, and there is code that is supposed to do exactly this. I >>> checked, and at least in the simple scenarios I tried, it works as >>> advertised. Do you have a recipe to make it not work? >>> >>> Note: I think I added this fairly recently, so you probably need the most >>> recent version (or nearly so) for this to work. >>> >>> gc >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Sep 7 11:50:02 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2022 15:50:02 +0000 Subject: Cross-platform font handling, and why you don't want to do it In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <69AECD7F-A2AB-4253-9593-8236A1F14F6C@iotecdigital.com> After I start using the font files I added a line to wait 10 ticks with messages. Same thing. I came up with a workaround though. If I set the rect of an object to it's current rect it forces a redraw. Curiously, if I set the rect of the entire stack to it's current rect it does NOT force a redraw. Bob S > On Sep 6, 2022, at 16:32 , Neville Smythe via use-livecode wrote: > > > Bob Sneider wrote: >> The fonts do not get included in a MacOS standalone > > > embedding fonts in a Mac standalone worked fine for me. Have you checked that the fonts are actually in /Contents/Resources/_MacOS/ and your file path when loading is correct > > On the IDE problem >> when I quit Livecode, then relaunch it and open the stack, all the text of the labels appear out of alignment! > > sounds like a timing problem about what resources are available when LiveCode launches and your stack gets to do its font loading (in a pre-open stack handler?) and that the timing on Windows launch is just different. > > Neville Smythe > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Sep 7 15:24:56 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2022 12:24:56 -0700 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: <84A3D906-ECAB-4B29-91C0-CC62292EEF99@iotecdigital.com> References: <84A3D906-ECAB-4B29-91C0-CC62292EEF99@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: You can have that. You don't need a message. Too many possibilities to try to anticipate in a list email. Give me a call and let's discuss. I'll bet in under 20 minutes you'll be fired up and crafting the styling subsystem of your dreams. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Bob Sneidar wrote: > > Yes but I had more in mind then display properties like font size and style. > > Bob S > > > On Sep 6, 2022, at 15:30 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode > wrote: > > Bob Sneidar wrote: > >> That's great for buttons. I'd like to implement something for all >> objects. My goal is to be able to offer the end user a way to change >> their "motif" with a single click. Imagine being able to set the >> properties of an object designated as a "class object", the object >> then getting a propertyChanged message, and then having that >> propertyChanged handler trigger the change of all the subscribed >> properties of all the objects that are an instance of that class or >> sub-class. > > Sounds very much like the way word processors manage styles: define a set of attributes, assign a name to the set, apply that set by name to selections as you go. > > If a change is needed just edit the style definition, click "Save Changes", and the changes are propagated to all objects to which that style has been assigned. > > Do I understand the desired workflow? > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Sep 7 18:03:10 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2022 22:03:10 +0000 Subject: Stylistic question. In-Reply-To: References: <1818ceeb0b0.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <990BFD28-D609-4498-9DF0-A80E605861C4@iotecdigital.com> <87FBDED9-D4FA-4280-AB55-702A7A5DBA09@iotecdigital.com> <6697AA2B-0FD5-46A1-86CF-381113B80A1E@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <1E86E371-EF17-4985-BE57-938BA45A2D64@iotecdigital.com> While you are at it, selecting the card, then selecting the Inspector button in the toolbar gets the stack properties, not the card properties. I know I can right-click and get the card properties, but if this is not the intended behavior I figured you'd want to know. Bob S > On Sep 7, 2022, at 08:03 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > Awesome good job. > > Bob S > > >> On Sep 7, 2022, at 24:16 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Okay, I figured it out. When Navigator is displaying whatever the contents >> are of the current card (its default state) it syncs the selection with the >> selected controls. This goes both ways, so it's important not to get stuck >> in a loop: Navigator sets the selected controls, which in turn triggers >> Navigator to update its selection, which sets the selected controls, and so >> on. >> >> My code set a flag when changing the selection to stop that endless cycle, >> and that flag was stopping updates when the filter changes. >> >> So selections were retained when a specific card or group was displayed, >> but not retained when showing the top card "live". >> >> I've fixed this I think. I've also fixed named bookmark sets. I want to add >> an option on stacks to display all cards within the stack (and maybe all >> controls within the stack). And I want to run some tests on how fast >> Navigator is at this point, and do some regression testing, and then I'll >> release an update. >> >> Thanks for the report! >> >> gc >> >> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 8:50 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>> I went to Github, the latest version is 7.3 RC1 which is what I already >>> had. Not sure where to look for the most recent version. Issue persists for >>> me. >>> >>> Bob S >>> >>> >>>> On Sep 6, 2022, at 08:11 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> I'll have a look. >>>> >>>> Bob S >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sep 5, 2022, at 19:11 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 10:32 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> >>> wrote: >>>> I will however ask for just one enhancement: If I am filtering the list >>>> and have an item or items selected, and then I clear the filter, it also >>>> clears the selection. It would be great if the selection could be >>>> maintained or restored. >>>> >>>> I checked, and there is code that is supposed to do exactly this. I >>>> checked, and at least in the simple scenarios I tried, it works as >>>> advertised. Do you have a recipe to make it not work? >>>> >>>> Note: I think I added this fairly recently, so you probably need the most >>>> recent version (or nearly so) for this to work. >>>> >>>> gc >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Sep 7 19:47:51 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2022 23:47:51 +0000 Subject: System Time Zone Message-ID: Hi all. I am exploring the possibility of creating a scheduling module, and am reading up on the iCalendar specification. I can localize the date and time by entering a valid time zone, and can hard code it for where I am at, but I want to be able to use this anywhere. The format of a localized time in iCalendar looks something like: DTSTAMP;TZID=America/Los_Angeles:20220907T163000 It's the, "America/Los_Angeles" bit I am trying to find a way to grok. How can I extract that in LC? Isn't there some kind of function that will return the current system's time zone? Bob S From ahsoftware at sonic.net Wed Sep 7 20:14:42 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2022 17:14:42 -0700 Subject: System Time Zone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 9/7/22 16:47, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > It's the, "America/Los_Angeles" bit I am trying to find a way to grok. How can I extract that in LC? Isn't there some kind of function that will return the current system's time zone? linux: put the last word of shell("date") osx: put word -2 of shell("date") Windows (possibly one of these) NOTE: empirically these return different values. ymmv: tzutil /g systeminfo | findstr /C:Time Zone -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Sep 7 21:46:01 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2022 20:46:01 -0500 Subject: System Time Zone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1831ac683a8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> "The internet time" gives you the offset from Greenwich time. No city though. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On September 7, 2022 6:50:09 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > Hi all. > > I am exploring the possibility of creating a scheduling module, and am > reading up on the iCalendar specification. I can localize the date and time > by entering a valid time zone, and can hard code it for where I am at, but > I want to be able to use this anywhere. > > The format of a localized time in iCalendar looks something like: > > DTSTAMP;TZID=America/Los_Angeles:20220907T163000 > > It's the, "America/Los_Angeles" bit I am trying to find a way to grok. How > can I extract that in LC? Isn't there some kind of function that will > return the current system's time zone? > > Bob S > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From Bernd.Niggemann at uni-wh.de Thu Sep 8 01:59:59 2022 From: Bernd.Niggemann at uni-wh.de (Niggemann, Bernd) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2022 05:59:59 +0000 Subject: System Time Zone Message-ID: Bob Sneidar via use-livecode Wed, 07 Sep 2022 16:49:43 -0700 Isn't there some kind of function that will return the current system's time zone? Hi Bob, there is a timeZone library in LC, maybe that is of help. Please be aware that some entries in the timeZone library are deprecated. https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23012 The bug report has a stack that uses the library. Kind regards Bernd From gcanyon at gmail.com Thu Sep 8 03:46:59 2022 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2022 00:46:59 -0700 Subject: Stylistic question. In-Reply-To: <1E86E371-EF17-4985-BE57-938BA45A2D64@iotecdigital.com> References: <1818ceeb0b0.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <990BFD28-D609-4498-9DF0-A80E605861C4@iotecdigital.com> <87FBDED9-D4FA-4280-AB55-702A7A5DBA09@iotecdigital.com> <6697AA2B-0FD5-46A1-86CF-381113B80A1E@iotecdigital.com> <1E86E371-EF17-4985-BE57-938BA45A2D64@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Hmm, I'll take a look. On Wed, Sep 7, 2022 at 3:04 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > While you are at it, selecting the card, then selecting the Inspector > button in the toolbar gets the stack properties, not the card properties. I > know I can right-click and get the card properties, but if this is not the > intended behavior I figured you'd want to know. > > Bob S > > > > On Sep 7, 2022, at 08:03 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > Awesome good job. > > > > Bob S > > > > > >> On Sep 7, 2022, at 24:16 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> > >> Okay, I figured it out. When Navigator is displaying whatever the > contents > >> are of the current card (its default state) it syncs the selection with > the > >> selected controls. This goes both ways, so it's important not to get > stuck > >> in a loop: Navigator sets the selected controls, which in turn triggers > >> Navigator to update its selection, which sets the selected controls, > and so > >> on. > >> > >> My code set a flag when changing the selection to stop that endless > cycle, > >> and that flag was stopping updates when the filter changes. > >> > >> So selections were retained when a specific card or group was displayed, > >> but not retained when showing the top card "live". > >> > >> I've fixed this I think. I've also fixed named bookmark sets. I want to > add > >> an option on stacks to display all cards within the stack (and maybe all > >> controls within the stack). And I want to run some tests on how fast > >> Navigator is at this point, and do some regression testing, and then > I'll > >> release an update. > >> > >> Thanks for the report! > >> > >> gc > >> > >> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 8:50 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> > >>> I went to Github, the latest version is 7.3 RC1 which is what I already > >>> had. Not sure where to look for the most recent version. Issue > persists for > >>> me. > >>> > >>> Bob S > >>> > >>> > >>>> On Sep 6, 2022, at 08:11 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> I'll have a look. > >>>> > >>>> Bob S > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Sep 5, 2022, at 19:11 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode < > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> > >>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 10:32 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < > >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> > >>> wrote: > >>>> I will however ask for just one enhancement: If I am filtering the > list > >>>> and have an item or items selected, and then I clear the filter, it > also > >>>> clears the selection. It would be great if the selection could be > >>>> maintained or restored. > >>>> > >>>> I checked, and there is code that is supposed to do exactly this. I > >>>> checked, and at least in the simple scenarios I tried, it works as > >>>> advertised. Do you have a recipe to make it not work? > >>>> > >>>> Note: I think I added this fairly recently, so you probably need the > most > >>>> recent version (or nearly so) for this to work. > >>>> > >>>> gc > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> use-livecode mailing list > >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>> subscription preferences: > >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> use-livecode mailing list > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>> subscription preferences: > >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From gcanyon at gmail.com Thu Sep 8 03:54:18 2022 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2022 00:54:18 -0700 Subject: Stylistic question. In-Reply-To: <1E86E371-EF17-4985-BE57-938BA45A2D64@iotecdigital.com> References: <1818ceeb0b0.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <990BFD28-D609-4498-9DF0-A80E605861C4@iotecdigital.com> <87FBDED9-D4FA-4280-AB55-702A7A5DBA09@iotecdigital.com> <6697AA2B-0FD5-46A1-86CF-381113B80A1E@iotecdigital.com> <1E86E371-EF17-4985-BE57-938BA45A2D64@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Can you be more specific? I tried selecting the card both in the live display and the specific card display, and then on the Properties "P" menu I selected Property Editor, Single Object Inspector, and Individual Object Inspectors, and it always came up showing the card. On Wed, Sep 7, 2022 at 3:04 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > While you are at it, selecting the card, then selecting the Inspector > button in the toolbar gets the stack properties, not the card properties. I > know I can right-click and get the card properties, but if this is not the > intended behavior I figured you'd want to know. > > Bob S > > > > On Sep 7, 2022, at 08:03 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > Awesome good job. > > > > Bob S > > > > > >> On Sep 7, 2022, at 24:16 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> > >> Okay, I figured it out. When Navigator is displaying whatever the > contents > >> are of the current card (its default state) it syncs the selection with > the > >> selected controls. This goes both ways, so it's important not to get > stuck > >> in a loop: Navigator sets the selected controls, which in turn triggers > >> Navigator to update its selection, which sets the selected controls, > and so > >> on. > >> > >> My code set a flag when changing the selection to stop that endless > cycle, > >> and that flag was stopping updates when the filter changes. > >> > >> So selections were retained when a specific card or group was displayed, > >> but not retained when showing the top card "live". > >> > >> I've fixed this I think. I've also fixed named bookmark sets. I want to > add > >> an option on stacks to display all cards within the stack (and maybe all > >> controls within the stack). And I want to run some tests on how fast > >> Navigator is at this point, and do some regression testing, and then > I'll > >> release an update. > >> > >> Thanks for the report! > >> > >> gc > >> > >> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 8:50 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> > >>> I went to Github, the latest version is 7.3 RC1 which is what I already > >>> had. Not sure where to look for the most recent version. Issue > persists for > >>> me. > >>> > >>> Bob S > >>> > >>> > >>>> On Sep 6, 2022, at 08:11 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> I'll have a look. > >>>> > >>>> Bob S > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Sep 5, 2022, at 19:11 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode < > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> > >>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 10:32 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < > >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> > >>> wrote: > >>>> I will however ask for just one enhancement: If I am filtering the > list > >>>> and have an item or items selected, and then I clear the filter, it > also > >>>> clears the selection. It would be great if the selection could be > >>>> maintained or restored. > >>>> > >>>> I checked, and there is code that is supposed to do exactly this. I > >>>> checked, and at least in the simple scenarios I tried, it works as > >>>> advertised. Do you have a recipe to make it not work? > >>>> > >>>> Note: I think I added this fairly recently, so you probably need the > most > >>>> recent version (or nearly so) for this to work. > >>>> > >>>> gc > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> use-livecode mailing list > >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>> subscription preferences: > >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> use-livecode mailing list > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>> subscription preferences: > >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Sep 8 11:26:48 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2022 15:26:48 +0000 Subject: System Time Zone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Returns PDT. I will now have to get a list of all time zone abbreviations and do a lookup table. Bob S On Sep 7, 2022, at 17:14 , Mark Wieder via use-livecode > wrote: osx: put word -2 of shell("date") From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Sep 8 11:34:53 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2022 15:34:53 +0000 Subject: System Time Zone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40176461-B5A9-467B-8651-E95AAB004DF3@iotecdigital.com> You can get the timezone of a widget, get a list of ALL time zones, convert to and from universal time. There is no way it seems to geet the current time zone of the system. Bob S > On Sep 7, 2022, at 22:59 , Niggemann, Bernd via use-livecode wrote: > > Bob Sneidar via use-livecode Wed, 07 Sep 2022 16:49:43 -0700 > > Isn't there some kind of function that will return the > current system's time zone? > > > Hi Bob, > there is a timeZone library in LC, maybe that is of help. > > Please be aware that some entries in the timeZone library are deprecated. > > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23012 > > The bug report has a stack that uses the library. > > Kind regards > Bernd > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Sep 8 11:37:53 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2022 15:37:53 +0000 Subject: Stylistic question. In-Reply-To: References: <1818ceeb0b0.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <990BFD28-D609-4498-9DF0-A80E605861C4@iotecdigital.com> <87FBDED9-D4FA-4280-AB55-702A7A5DBA09@iotecdigital.com> <6697AA2B-0FD5-46A1-86CF-381113B80A1E@iotecdigital.com> <1E86E371-EF17-4985-BE57-938BA45A2D64@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <38D7510C-9393-4E57-9239-702EE456ACB1@iotecdigital.com> Yes that works. What doesn't work is selecting the card in the list, then clicking the Inspector button in the LC IDE toolbar. It's easier for me to do that because if I click another object in Navigator, the focus of the Inspector (Properties Editor) changes to the selected object. If I do the right-click single object method, sometimes the focus does NOT change, and I have to do the right-click thungummy again. Bob S On Sep 8, 2022, at 24:54 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode > wrote: Can you be more specific? I tried selecting the card both in the live display and the specific card display, and then on the Properties "P" menu I selected Property Editor, Single Object Inspector, and Individual Object Inspectors, and it always came up showing the card. From ahsoftware at sonic.net Thu Sep 8 13:04:41 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2022 10:04:41 -0700 Subject: Excel Lib fail (solved!) In-Reply-To: <26f62937-4687-39a9-b49a-b4cc98a39259@sonic.net> References: <9e4bc610-59b4-7b49-b95a-bd03e38f5503@sonic.net> <26f62937-4687-39a9-b49a-b4cc98a39259@sonic.net> Message-ID: On 9/3/22 20:36, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > On 9/3/22 10:35, zryip theSlug via use-livecode wrote: >> Dear Mark, >> >> Due to this article, maybe? >> >> https://livecode.com/xlsx-lib-a-bonus-library-included-with-excel-library-in-the-megabundle-offer/ >> > > Yep. That's it. Thanks. > ...and i can now say that after playing with the library for a few days it's working well and doing everything I need it to. I'm importing a csv format file (format not under my control), totalling columns, displaying the data in a datagrid, formtting columns and rows, and exporting as an xlsx file for LibreOffice. I realize it's still labeled "experimental" and that some of the data formats may change, but they look like they'll be easy to deal with when that day comes. Well done. Highly recommended. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From klaus at major-k.de Fri Sep 9 06:00:26 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 12:00:26 +0200 Subject: LC converts phone number to scientific notation Message-ID: <74920219-28CD-46EA-825A-61AB3EC0006F@major-k.de> Hi friends, I have a very strange problem, but also found a workaround for it. I first convert an 8 MB CSV file with 60000 lines to TAB delimited data, then I parse the file and just extract some columns from the 60000 lines to display in a field. E.g. the column "number dialled", which contains phone number like -> 447973100123 The CSV files are definitively correct but I found that in the resulting field some of these numbers appear in scientific notation -> 4.47888E+11 This does not happen with phone numbers with a leading ZERO: like -> 07557162491 So maybe this a small hint? However I do not even touch these items I just use: ... put item 9 of tLine into item 6 of tNewLine ## tLine is the line from the CSV and tNewLine is for the data in the display field. ... My simple workaround, no idea why, but it obviously works: ... put item 9 of tLine into ttt put ttt into item 6 of tNewLine ... This avoids the scientific notation, what the hell is going on here? Any hints welcome. Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From merakosp at gmail.com Fri Sep 9 06:27:27 2022 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis m) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 13:27:27 +0300 Subject: LC converts phone number to scientific notation In-Reply-To: <74920219-28CD-46EA-825A-61AB3EC0006F@major-k.de> References: <74920219-28CD-46EA-825A-61AB3EC0006F@major-k.de> Message-ID: Hello Klaus, I guess what happens here is that if you fetch item X of line Y and use it directly, LC treats it as a number and displays it in scientific notation. On the contrary, if you first put item X of line Y into a variable, then the variable is treated as text, so it is not converted. Kind regards, Panos -- On Fri, 9 Sept 2022 at 13:01, Klaus major-k via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi friends, > > I have a very strange problem, but also found a workaround for it. > > I first convert an 8 MB CSV file with 60000 lines to TAB delimited data, > then I parse the file > and just extract some columns from the 60000 lines to display in a field. > E.g. the column "number dialled", which contains phone number like > -> 447973100123 > > The CSV files are definitively correct but I found that in the resulting > field some of these numbers > appear in scientific notation > -> 4.47888E+11 > > This does not happen with phone numbers with a leading ZERO: like > -> 07557162491 > So maybe this a small hint? > > However I do not even touch these items I just use: > ... > put item 9 of tLine into item 6 of tNewLine > ## tLine is the line from the CSV and tNewLine is for the data in the > display field. > ... > > My simple workaround, no idea why, but it obviously works: > ... > put item 9 of tLine into ttt > put ttt into item 6 of tNewLine > ... > This avoids the scientific notation, what the hell is going on here? > Any hints welcome. > > > Best > > Klaus > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > https://www.major-k.de/bass > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From klaus at major-k.de Fri Sep 9 06:40:12 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 12:40:12 +0200 Subject: LC converts phone number to scientific notation In-Reply-To: References: <74920219-28CD-46EA-825A-61AB3EC0006F@major-k.de> Message-ID: Hi Panos, > Am 09.09.2022 um 12:27 schrieb panagiotis m via use-livecode : > > Hello Klaus, > > I guess what happens here is that if you fetch item X of line Y and use it > directly, LC treats it as a number and displays it in scientific notation. obviously! > On the contrary, if you first put item X of line Y into a variable, then > the variable is treated as text, so it is not converted. Yo, that's why my workaround erm. works. :-) Thank you for the explanation! > Kind regards, > Panos > -- > > On Fri, 9 Sept 2022 at 13:01, Klaus major-k via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Hi friends, >> >> I have a very strange problem, but also found a workaround for it. >> >> I first convert an 8 MB CSV file with 60000 lines to TAB delimited data, >> then I parse the file >> and just extract some columns from the 60000 lines to display in a field. >> E.g. the column "number dialled", which contains phone number like >> -> 447973100123 >> >> The CSV files are definitively correct but I found that in the resulting >> field some of these numbers >> appear in scientific notation >> -> 4.47888E+11 >> >> This does not happen with phone numbers with a leading ZERO: like >> -> 07557162491 >> So maybe this a small hint? >> >> However I do not even touch these items I just use: >> ... >> put item 9 of tLine into item 6 of tNewLine >> ## tLine is the line from the CSV and tNewLine is for the data in the >> display field. >> ... >> >> My simple workaround, no idea why, but it obviously works: >> ... >> put item 9 of tLine into ttt >> put ttt into item 6 of tNewLine >> ... >> This avoids the scientific notation, what the hell is going on here? >> Any hints welcome. > Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From alex at tweedly.net Fri Sep 9 09:18:13 2022 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 14:18:13 +0100 Subject: LC converts phone number to scientific notation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <27688A00-CE47-4BEF-AD74-508D26423EA8@tweedly.net> How about Put (“” & item 9 of globe) onto item 6 of tnewline Alex Sent from my iPhone > On 9 Sep 2022, at 11:40, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Panos, > >> Am 09.09.2022 um 12:27 schrieb panagiotis m via use-livecode : >> >> Hello Klaus, >> >> I guess what happens here is that if you fetch item X of line Y and use it >> directly, LC treats it as a number and displays it in scientific notation. > > obviously! > >> On the contrary, if you first put item X of line Y into a variable, then >> the variable is treated as text, so it is not converted. > > Yo, that's why my workaround erm. works. :-) > Thank you for the explanation! > >> Kind regards, >> Panos >> -- >> >>> On Fri, 9 Sept 2022 at 13:01, Klaus major-k via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>> Hi friends, >>> >>> I have a very strange problem, but also found a workaround for it. >>> >>> I first convert an 8 MB CSV file with 60000 lines to TAB delimited data, >>> then I parse the file >>> and just extract some columns from the 60000 lines to display in a field. >>> E.g. the column "number dialled", which contains phone number like >>> -> 447973100123 >>> >>> The CSV files are definitively correct but I found that in the resulting >>> field some of these numbers >>> appear in scientific notation >>> -> 4.47888E+11 >>> >>> This does not happen with phone numbers with a leading ZERO: like >>> -> 07557162491 >>> So maybe this a small hint? >>> >>> However I do not even touch these items I just use: >>> ... >>> put item 9 of tLine into item 6 of tNewLine >>> ## tLine is the line from the CSV and tNewLine is for the data in the >>> display field. >>> ... >>> >>> My simple workaround, no idea why, but it obviously works: >>> ... >>> put item 9 of tLine into ttt >>> put ttt into item 6 of tNewLine >>> ... >>> This avoids the scientific notation, what the hell is going on here? >>> Any hints welcome. >> > > Best > > Klaus > > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > https://www.major-k.de/bass > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From klaus at major-k.de Fri Sep 9 09:32:39 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 15:32:39 +0200 Subject: LC converts phone number to scientific notation In-Reply-To: <27688A00-CE47-4BEF-AD74-508D26423EA8@tweedly.net> References: <27688A00-CE47-4BEF-AD74-508D26423EA8@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <95A51D94-E599-4026-AC26-7D37C729487A@major-k.de> Hi Alex, > Am 09.09.2022 um 15:18 schrieb Alex Tweedly via use-livecode : > > How about > > Put (“” & item 9 of globe) onto item 6 of tnewline or this way. :-) > Alex > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 9 Sep 2022, at 11:40, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Hi Panos, >> >>> Am 09.09.2022 um 12:27 schrieb panagiotis m via use-livecode : >>> >>> Hello Klaus, >>> >>> I guess what happens here is that if you fetch item X of line Y and use it >>> directly, LC treats it as a number and displays it in scientific notation. >> >> obviously! >> >>> On the contrary, if you first put item X of line Y into a variable, then >>> the variable is treated as text, so it is not converted. >> >> Yo, that's why my workaround erm. works. :-) >> Thank you for the explanation! >> >>> Kind regards, >>> Panos Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri Sep 9 09:39:04 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 09:39:04 -0400 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <005a01d8c226$e8596c70$b90c4550$@net> <327C82F3-CA0F-4108-8F46-1372C69F0691@milby7.com> Message-ID: Throwing NavRAD into my extensions folder doesn't seem to install it. I wonder why. On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:19 PM Mike Kerner wrote: > by the way, isn't it crazy how much overhead is required with lcb widgets? > there is so...much...stuff you have to put on top just to get to the heart > of the thing. > and i'm never going to like the way lc embeds the comments in the source > of anything. > or the way they spell "favourites", or pronounce "Aluminum". Do you see an > extra "i" in there? No? It's invisible, that's why. > > On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:00 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> I think the user is going to need to code the width adjustment in the >> resizeStack handler. Widgets can’t change their rect on their own. It has >> to happen from the LCS side. >> >> Brian Milby >> brian at milby7.com >> >> > On Sep 6, 2022, at 3:29 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> > >> > Mike, >> > >> > For future reference the source is in the .lce file. The .lce is in zip >> format. Temporarily change the extension to .zip. You will see the lcb file >> in there. Also when you install it the source will be in the extension >> folder. But since I posted .lce I have put in comments starting with "RAD >> Change" to show where I have made changes. Here is the link to the updated >> source==>https://www.dropbox.com/s/bv930usovpruo5e/navrad.lcb?dl=0 >> > >> > Thanks for taking a look! >> > >> > Also I found that after I updated the docs that the docs are generated >> from the lcb file. I re-built the widget and boom my doc changes were >> destroyed. No problem I just had redo the docs for my changes in the lcb >> file. So many unknowns. I am trying to find a way to resize it to the card >> width with a user setting for height percent of card width. But the docs >> are so scant and confusing I feel the giant headache coming on again. >> > >> > >> > Ralph DiMola >> > IT Director >> > Evergreen Information Services >> > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On >> Behalf Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode >> > Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2022 3:00 PM >> > To: How to use LiveCode >> > Cc: Mike Kerner >> > Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual >> > >> > Ralph, >> > got the source, somewhere? i'd like to learn from it. >> > testing to begin...now. >> > >> >> On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 1:32 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> I took a major stab at LCB and created a new widget based on the >> >> navbar widget. I have made 2 changes to the navbar and call it navrad. >> >> It does not modify the stock navbar. With almost no docs it was a >> >> challenge. There were so many unknowns I got a few giant headaches. It >> >> adds 4 new properties(iconFill,autoRADHilite,preHilitedItem, >> >> preHilitedItemName) and 1 new message(preHiliteChanged). I updated the >> >> documentation so the new properties and message show in the dictionary >> >> with example(search for "navrad" or just "rad"). >> >> One thing I ran into was that I had to call the "autohilite" property >> >> autoRADHilite because using any existing property causes a confilict >> >> that I could not get around without sufficient docs. It does show in >> >> the property inspector as "auto hilite". These changes allow >> >> 1)enlarge/center the icon if there is no label 2)intercept a selection >> >> before it is hilited and make a choice to hilite and send the stock >> >> hiliteChanged message (or not). Why no label? For one social media >> icons don’t need labels. Why a pre message? >> >> Someone suggested it and I thought it was a great idea. Backwards >> >> compatible with existing navbar LCS code. The was an auto sizing to >> >> card width request. I will look to see if I can do it without more >> docs(or help). >> >> >> >> If anyone would like to try it and find any bugs it's at ==> >> >> https://www.dropbox.com/s/51zm4m8dip49jov/com.livecode.widget.navrad.2 >> >> .0.0.lce?dl=0 >> >> >> >> >> >> Ralph DiMola >> >> IT Director >> >> Evergreen Information Services >> >> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> use-livecode mailing list >> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> >> subscription preferences: >> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> > >> > >> > -- >> > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second >> day, God created the oceans. >> > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> > and did a little diving. >> > And God said, "This is good." >> > _______________________________________________ >> > use-livecode mailing list >> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > use-livecode mailing list >> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From brian at milby7.com Fri Sep 9 09:54:29 2022 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 09:54:29 -0400 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <792CBF1B-E772-45CD-9137-B12837C2E320@milby7.com> You have to use the IDE to install widgets. Tools… Extension Manager… + (icon, top right) Brian Milby brian at milby7.com > On Sep 9, 2022, at 9:40 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > Throwing NavRAD into my extensions folder doesn't seem to install it. I > wonder why. > >> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:19 PM Mike Kerner >> wrote: >> >> by the way, isn't it crazy how much overhead is required with lcb widgets? >> there is so...much...stuff you have to put on top just to get to the heart >> of the thing. >> and i'm never going to like the way lc embeds the comments in the source >> of anything. >> or the way they spell "favourites", or pronounce "Aluminum". Do you see an >> extra "i" in there? No? It's invisible, that's why. >> >> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:00 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>> I think the user is going to need to code the width adjustment in the >>> resizeStack handler. Widgets can’t change their rect on their own. It has >>> to happen from the LCS side. >>> >>> Brian Milby >>> brian at milby7.com >>> >>>> On Sep 6, 2022, at 3:29 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Mike, >>>> >>>> For future reference the source is in the .lce file. The .lce is in zip >>> format. Temporarily change the extension to .zip. You will see the lcb file >>> in there. Also when you install it the source will be in the extension >>> folder. But since I posted .lce I have put in comments starting with "RAD >>> Change" to show where I have made changes. Here is the link to the updated >>> source==>https://www.dropbox.com/s/bv930usovpruo5e/navrad.lcb?dl=0 >>>> >>>> Thanks for taking a look! >>>> >>>> Also I found that after I updated the docs that the docs are generated >>> from the lcb file. I re-built the widget and boom my doc changes were >>> destroyed. No problem I just had redo the docs for my changes in the lcb >>> file. So many unknowns. I am trying to find a way to resize it to the card >>> width with a user setting for height percent of card width. But the docs >>> are so scant and confusing I feel the giant headache coming on again. >>>> >>>> >>>> Ralph DiMola >>>> IT Director >>>> Evergreen Information Services >>>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On >>> Behalf Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode >>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2022 3:00 PM >>>> To: How to use LiveCode >>>> Cc: Mike Kerner >>>> Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual >>>> >>>> Ralph, >>>> got the source, somewhere? i'd like to learn from it. >>>> testing to begin...now. >>>> >>>>> On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 1:32 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I took a major stab at LCB and created a new widget based on the >>>>> navbar widget. I have made 2 changes to the navbar and call it navrad. >>>>> It does not modify the stock navbar. With almost no docs it was a >>>>> challenge. There were so many unknowns I got a few giant headaches. It >>>>> adds 4 new properties(iconFill,autoRADHilite,preHilitedItem, >>>>> preHilitedItemName) and 1 new message(preHiliteChanged). I updated the >>>>> documentation so the new properties and message show in the dictionary >>>>> with example(search for "navrad" or just "rad"). >>>>> One thing I ran into was that I had to call the "autohilite" property >>>>> autoRADHilite because using any existing property causes a confilict >>>>> that I could not get around without sufficient docs. It does show in >>>>> the property inspector as "auto hilite". These changes allow >>>>> 1)enlarge/center the icon if there is no label 2)intercept a selection >>>>> before it is hilited and make a choice to hilite and send the stock >>>>> hiliteChanged message (or not). Why no label? For one social media >>> icons don’t need labels. Why a pre message? >>>>> Someone suggested it and I thought it was a great idea. Backwards >>>>> compatible with existing navbar LCS code. The was an auto sizing to >>>>> card width request. I will look to see if I can do it without more >>> docs(or help). >>>>> >>>>> If anyone would like to try it and find any bugs it's at ==> >>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/51zm4m8dip49jov/com.livecode.widget.navrad.2 >>>>> .0.0.lce?dl=0 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Ralph DiMola >>>>> IT Director >>>>> Evergreen Information Services >>>>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second >>> day, God created the oceans. >>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >>>> and did a little diving. >>>> And God said, "This is good." >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> >> -- >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >> On the second day, God created the oceans. >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> and did a little diving. >> And God said, "This is good." >> > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Fri Sep 9 10:32:13 2022 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 10:32:13 -0400 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: <792CBF1B-E772-45CD-9137-B12837C2E320@milby7.com> References: <792CBF1B-E772-45CD-9137-B12837C2E320@milby7.com> Message-ID: <001601d8c458$f6ebe310$e4c3a930$@net> Yes, And after the install you will the widget folder in your "My LiveCode"==>Extensions folder. It will appear the the tool palette and in the inclusions pane of the standalone settings. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Brian Milby via use-livecode Sent: Friday, September 09, 2022 9:54 AM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Brian Milby Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual You have to use the IDE to install widgets. Tools… Extension Manager… + (icon, top right) Brian Milby brian at milby7.com > On Sep 9, 2022, at 9:40 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > Throwing NavRAD into my extensions folder doesn't seem to install it. > I wonder why. > >> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:19 PM Mike Kerner >> >> wrote: >> >> by the way, isn't it crazy how much overhead is required with lcb widgets? >> there is so...much...stuff you have to put on top just to get to the >> heart of the thing. >> and i'm never going to like the way lc embeds the comments in the >> source of anything. >> or the way they spell "favourites", or pronounce "Aluminum". Do you >> see an extra "i" in there? No? It's invisible, that's why. >> >> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:00 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>> I think the user is going to need to code the width adjustment in >>> the resizeStack handler. Widgets can’t change their rect on their >>> own. It has to happen from the LCS side. >>> >>> Brian Milby >>> brian at milby7.com >>> >>>> On Sep 6, 2022, at 3:29 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Mike, >>>> >>>> For future reference the source is in the .lce file. The .lce is in >>>> zip >>> format. Temporarily change the extension to .zip. You will see the >>> lcb file in there. Also when you install it the source will be in >>> the extension folder. But since I posted .lce I have put in comments >>> starting with "RAD Change" to show where I have made changes. Here >>> is the link to the updated >>> source==>https://www.dropbox.com/s/bv930usovpruo5e/navrad.lcb?dl=0 >>>> >>>> Thanks for taking a look! >>>> >>>> Also I found that after I updated the docs that the docs are >>>> generated >>> from the lcb file. I re-built the widget and boom my doc changes >>> were destroyed. No problem I just had redo the docs for my changes >>> in the lcb file. So many unknowns. I am trying to find a way to >>> resize it to the card width with a user setting for height percent >>> of card width. But the docs are so scant and confusing I feel the giant headache coming on again. >>>> >>>> >>>> Ralph DiMola >>>> IT Director >>>> Evergreen Information Services >>>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] >>>> On >>> Behalf Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode >>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2022 3:00 PM >>>> To: How to use LiveCode >>>> Cc: Mike Kerner >>>> Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual >>>> >>>> Ralph, >>>> got the source, somewhere? i'd like to learn from it. >>>> testing to begin...now. >>>> >>>>> On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 1:32 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I took a major stab at LCB and created a new widget based on the >>>>> navbar widget. I have made 2 changes to the navbar and call it navrad. >>>>> It does not modify the stock navbar. With almost no docs it was a >>>>> challenge. There were so many unknowns I got a few giant >>>>> headaches. It adds 4 new >>>>> properties(iconFill,autoRADHilite,preHilitedItem, >>>>> preHilitedItemName) and 1 new message(preHiliteChanged). I updated >>>>> the documentation so the new properties and message show in the >>>>> dictionary with example(search for "navrad" or just "rad"). >>>>> One thing I ran into was that I had to call the "autohilite" >>>>> property autoRADHilite because using any existing property causes >>>>> a confilict that I could not get around without sufficient docs. >>>>> It does show in the property inspector as "auto hilite". These >>>>> changes allow 1)enlarge/center the icon if there is no label >>>>> 2)intercept a selection before it is hilited and make a choice to >>>>> hilite and send the stock hiliteChanged message (or not). Why no >>>>> label? For one social media >>> icons don’t need labels. Why a pre message? >>>>> Someone suggested it and I thought it was a great idea. Backwards >>>>> compatible with existing navbar LCS code. The was an auto sizing >>>>> to card width request. I will look to see if I can do it without >>>>> more >>> docs(or help). >>>>> >>>>> If anyone would like to try it and find any bugs it's at ==> >>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/51zm4m8dip49jov/com.livecode.widget.navr >>>>> ad.2 >>>>> .0.0.lce?dl=0 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Ralph DiMola >>>>> IT Director >>>>> Evergreen Information Services >>>>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the >>>> second >>> day, God created the oceans. >>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and >>>> did a little diving. >>>> And God said, "This is good." >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> >> -- >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second >> day, God created the oceans. >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> and did a little diving. >> And God said, "This is good." >> > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second > day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 9 11:38:08 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 15:38:08 +0000 Subject: LC converts phone number to scientific notation In-Reply-To: <74920219-28CD-46EA-825A-61AB3EC0006F@major-k.de> References: <74920219-28CD-46EA-825A-61AB3EC0006F@major-k.de> Message-ID: I have a function called formatPhone() I can modify it to support international notation and send it to you. Are all country codes 2 digits? And why would a phone number have a leading 0? Bob S > On Sep 9, 2022, at 03:00 , Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi friends, > > I have a very strange problem, but also found a workaround for it. > > I first convert an 8 MB CSV file with 60000 lines to TAB delimited data, then I parse the file > and just extract some columns from the 60000 lines to display in a field. > E.g. the column "number dialled", which contains phone number like > -> 447973100123 > > The CSV files are definitively correct but I found that in the resulting field some of these numbers > appear in scientific notation > -> 4.47888E+11 > > This does not happen with phone numbers with a leading ZERO: like > -> 07557162491 > So maybe this a small hint? > > However I do not even touch these items I just use: > ... > put item 9 of tLine into item 6 of tNewLine > ## tLine is the line from the CSV and tNewLine is for the data in the display field. > ... > > My simple workaround, no idea why, but it obviously works: > ... > put item 9 of tLine into ttt > put ttt into item 6 of tNewLine > ... > This avoids the scientific notation, what the hell is going on here? > Any hints welcome. > > > Best > > Klaus > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > https://www.major-k.de/bass > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 9 11:39:41 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 15:39:41 +0000 Subject: LC converts phone number to scientific notation In-Reply-To: <95A51D94-E599-4026-AC26-7D37C729487A@major-k.de> References: <27688A00-CE47-4BEF-AD74-508D26423EA8@tweedly.net> <95A51D94-E599-4026-AC26-7D37C729487A@major-k.de> Message-ID: <5A3E8B94-0B38-4CFE-A9E5-643FA84B80D9@iotecdigital.com> Someone needs to debug their emails. ;-) Bob S On Sep 9, 2022, at 06:32 , Klaus major-k via use-livecode > wrote: Put (“” & item 9 of globe) onto item 6 of tnewline From klaus at major-k.de Fri Sep 9 11:51:21 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 17:51:21 +0200 Subject: LC converts phone number to scientific notation In-Reply-To: References: <74920219-28CD-46EA-825A-61AB3EC0006F@major-k.de> Message-ID: <30B13EE7-EBAA-4985-8AE3-E17F1632535A@major-k.de> Hi Bob, > Am 09.09.2022 um 17:38 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode : > > I have a function called formatPhone() I can modify it to support international notation and send it to you. thank you, will then store it for future use. > Are all country codes 2 digits? And why would a phone number have a leading 0? I don't have the slightest idea, I am just processing the CSV files, wherever they come from and whatever they may contain... 8-) > Bob S Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 9 12:45:32 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 16:45:32 +0000 Subject: LC converts phone number to scientific notation In-Reply-To: <30B13EE7-EBAA-4985-8AE3-E17F1632535A@major-k.de> References: <74920219-28CD-46EA-825A-61AB3EC0006F@major-k.de> <30B13EE7-EBAA-4985-8AE3-E17F1632535A@major-k.de> Message-ID: <62F6914F-0AAD-4960-BD0E-08CDE2D0E7AA@iotecdigital.com> OK As it turns out, it is nearly impossible to format a series of digits to an international format, separating the different parts by delimiters like - and (). Refer to web link for details. https://www.tipard.com/mobile/international-phone-number-format.html In short, the country code can be 1 to 3 digits, the dial out code *should* be 00 but some countries don't comply with the standard, and use a different code, which can be 2 to 3 digits, etc. To internationalize formatPhone() I would need a database of each country and how they format their phone numbers, and boo on that idea. Here is my formatPhone() code as it stands for US and Canada. (I think it is included in the Master Library as well.) If the phone number is not not 7 or 10 digits after extracting the extension, then it returns the original value. FUNCTION formatPhone thePhoneNumber, theFormat -- text -- mid IF theFormat is empty THEN put "classic" into theFormat END IF IF thePhoneNumber is empty THEN return thePhoneNumber END IF if "ext" is in thePhoneNumber then put offset("ext", thePhoneNumber) into tChar put char tChar to -1 of thePhoneNumber into theExtension put char 1 to tChar -1 of thePhoneNumber into thePhoneNumber else if "x" is in thePhoneNumber then put offset("x", thePhoneNumber) into tChar put char tChar to -1 of thePhoneNumber into theExtension put char 1 to tChar -1 of thePhoneNumber into thePhoneNumber end if REPEAT WITH i = 1 to the number of chars of thePhoneNumber IF char i of thePhoneNumber is a number THEN put char i of thePhoneNumber AFTER theNewValue END IF END REPEAT put the length of theNewValue into theLength IF theLength is not among the items of "7,10" THEN return thePhoneNumber && theExtension exit formatPhone END IF put "-" BEFORE char -4 of theNewValue IF theLength is 10 THEN IF theFormat is "classic" THEN put ") " AFTER char 3 of theNewValue put "(" BEFORE theNewValue ELSE put "-" AFTER char 3 of theNewValue END IF END IF IF theExtension is not empty THEN put " " & theExtension AFTER theNewValue return theNewValue END formatPhone Bob S On Sep 9, 2022, at 08:51 , Klaus major-k via use-livecode > wrote: Hi Bob, Am 09.09.2022 um 17:38 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode >: I have a function called formatPhone() I can modify it to support international notation and send it to you. thank you, will then store it for future use. From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri Sep 9 13:03:51 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 13:03:51 -0400 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: <001601d8c458$f6ebe310$e4c3a930$@net> References: <792CBF1B-E772-45CD-9137-B12837C2E320@milby7.com> <001601d8c458$f6ebe310$e4c3a930$@net> Message-ID: Weird. I thought you could just toss it in the extensions folder. On Fri, Sep 9, 2022 at 10:33 AM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Yes, And after the install you will the widget folder in your "My > LiveCode"==>Extensions folder. It will appear the the tool palette and in > the inclusions pane of the standalone settings. > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On > Behalf Of Brian Milby via use-livecode > Sent: Friday, September 09, 2022 9:54 AM > To: How to use LiveCode > Cc: Brian Milby > Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual > > You have to use the IDE to install widgets. > Tools… Extension Manager… + (icon, top right) > > Brian Milby > brian at milby7.com > > > On Sep 9, 2022, at 9:40 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > Throwing NavRAD into my extensions folder doesn't seem to install it. > > I wonder why. > > > >> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:19 PM Mike Kerner > >> > >> wrote: > >> > >> by the way, isn't it crazy how much overhead is required with lcb > widgets? > >> there is so...much...stuff you have to put on top just to get to the > >> heart of the thing. > >> and i'm never going to like the way lc embeds the comments in the > >> source of anything. > >> or the way they spell "favourites", or pronounce "Aluminum". Do you > >> see an extra "i" in there? No? It's invisible, that's why. > >> > >> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:00 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode < > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> > >>> I think the user is going to need to code the width adjustment in > >>> the resizeStack handler. Widgets can’t change their rect on their > >>> own. It has to happen from the LCS side. > >>> > >>> Brian Milby > >>> brian at milby7.com > >>> > >>>> On Sep 6, 2022, at 3:29 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Mike, > >>>> > >>>> For future reference the source is in the .lce file. The .lce is in > >>>> zip > >>> format. Temporarily change the extension to .zip. You will see the > >>> lcb file in there. Also when you install it the source will be in > >>> the extension folder. But since I posted .lce I have put in comments > >>> starting with "RAD Change" to show where I have made changes. Here > >>> is the link to the updated > >>> source==>https://www.dropbox.com/s/bv930usovpruo5e/navrad.lcb?dl=0 > >>>> > >>>> Thanks for taking a look! > >>>> > >>>> Also I found that after I updated the docs that the docs are > >>>> generated > >>> from the lcb file. I re-built the widget and boom my doc changes > >>> were destroyed. No problem I just had redo the docs for my changes > >>> in the lcb file. So many unknowns. I am trying to find a way to > >>> resize it to the card width with a user setting for height percent > >>> of card width. But the docs are so scant and confusing I feel the > giant headache coming on again. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Ralph DiMola > >>>> IT Director > >>>> Evergreen Information Services > >>>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > >>>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] > >>>> On > >>> Behalf Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode > >>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2022 3:00 PM > >>>> To: How to use LiveCode > >>>> Cc: Mike Kerner > >>>> Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual > >>>> > >>>> Ralph, > >>>> got the source, somewhere? i'd like to learn from it. > >>>> testing to begin...now. > >>>> > >>>>> On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 1:32 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> I took a major stab at LCB and created a new widget based on the > >>>>> navbar widget. I have made 2 changes to the navbar and call it > navrad. > >>>>> It does not modify the stock navbar. With almost no docs it was a > >>>>> challenge. There were so many unknowns I got a few giant > >>>>> headaches. It adds 4 new > >>>>> properties(iconFill,autoRADHilite,preHilitedItem, > >>>>> preHilitedItemName) and 1 new message(preHiliteChanged). I updated > >>>>> the documentation so the new properties and message show in the > >>>>> dictionary with example(search for "navrad" or just "rad"). > >>>>> One thing I ran into was that I had to call the "autohilite" > >>>>> property autoRADHilite because using any existing property causes > >>>>> a confilict that I could not get around without sufficient docs. > >>>>> It does show in the property inspector as "auto hilite". These > >>>>> changes allow 1)enlarge/center the icon if there is no label > >>>>> 2)intercept a selection before it is hilited and make a choice to > >>>>> hilite and send the stock hiliteChanged message (or not). Why no > >>>>> label? For one social media > >>> icons don’t need labels. Why a pre message? > >>>>> Someone suggested it and I thought it was a great idea. Backwards > >>>>> compatible with existing navbar LCS code. The was an auto sizing > >>>>> to card width request. I will look to see if I can do it without > >>>>> more > >>> docs(or help). > >>>>> > >>>>> If anyone would like to try it and find any bugs it's at ==> > >>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/51zm4m8dip49jov/com.livecode.widget.navr > >>>>> ad.2 > >>>>> .0.0.lce?dl=0 > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Ralph DiMola > >>>>> IT Director > >>>>> Evergreen Information Services > >>>>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> use-livecode mailing list > >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>>>> subscription preferences: > >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the > >>>> second > >>> day, God created the oceans. > >>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and > >>>> did a little diving. > >>>> And God said, "This is good." > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> use-livecode mailing list > >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>> subscription preferences: > >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> use-livecode mailing list > >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>> subscription preferences: > >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> use-livecode mailing list > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>> subscription preferences: > >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second > >> day, God created the oceans. > >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > >> and did a little diving. > >> And God said, "This is good." > >> > > > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second > > day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Sep 9 13:43:07 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2022 12:43:07 -0500 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <792CBF1B-E772-45CD-9137-B12837C2E320@milby7.com> <001601d8c458$f6ebe310$e4c3a930$@net> Message-ID: <18323591ff8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> It needs to install the dictionary entry and the extension itself, and put the reference into the tools palette. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On September 9, 2022 12:06:29 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > Weird. I thought you could just toss it in the extensions folder. > > On Fri, Sep 9, 2022 at 10:33 AM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Yes, And after the install you will the widget folder in your "My >> LiveCode"==>Extensions folder. It will appear the the tool palette and in >> the inclusions pane of the standalone settings. >> >> Ralph DiMola >> IT Director >> Evergreen Information Services >> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On >> Behalf Of Brian Milby via use-livecode >> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2022 9:54 AM >> To: How to use LiveCode >> Cc: Brian Milby >> Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual >> >> You have to use the IDE to install widgets. >> Tools Extension Manager + (icon, top right) >> >> Brian Milby >> brian at milby7.com >> >> > On Sep 9, 2022, at 9:40 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> > >> > Throwing NavRAD into my extensions folder doesn't seem to install it. >> > I wonder why. >> > >> >> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:19 PM Mike Kerner >> >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> by the way, isn't it crazy how much overhead is required with lcb >> widgets? >> >> there is so...much...stuff you have to put on top just to get to the >> >> heart of the thing. >> >> and i'm never going to like the way lc embeds the comments in the >> >> source of anything. >> >> or the way they spell "favourites", or pronounce "Aluminum". Do you >> >> see an extra "i" in there? No? It's invisible, that's why. >> >> >> >> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:00 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode < >> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >> >> >>> I think the user is going to need to code the width adjustment in >> >>> the resizeStack handler. Widgets cant change their rect on their >> >>> own. It has to happen from the LCS side. >> >>> >> >>> Brian Milby >> >>> brian at milby7.com >> >>> >> >>>> On Sep 6, 2022, at 3:29 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < >> >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>> Mike, >> >>>> >> >>>> For future reference the source is in the .lce file. The .lce is in >> >>>> zip >> >>> format. Temporarily change the extension to .zip. You will see the >> >>> lcb file in there. Also when you install it the source will be in >> >>> the extension folder. But since I posted .lce I have put in comments >> >>> starting with "RAD Change" to show where I have made changes. Here >> >>> is the link to the updated >> >>> source==>https://www.dropbox.com/s/bv930usovpruo5e/navrad.lcb?dl=0 >> >>>> >> >>>> Thanks for taking a look! >> >>>> >> >>>> Also I found that after I updated the docs that the docs are >> >>>> generated >> >>> from the lcb file. I re-built the widget and boom my doc changes >> >>> were destroyed. No problem I just had redo the docs for my changes >> >>> in the lcb file. So many unknowns. I am trying to find a way to >> >>> resize it to the card width with a user setting for height percent >> >>> of card width. But the docs are so scant and confusing I feel the >> giant headache coming on again. >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> Ralph DiMola >> >>>> IT Director >> >>>> Evergreen Information Services >> >>>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >> >>>> >> >>>> -----Original Message----- >> >>>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] >> >>>> On >> >>> Behalf Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode >> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2022 3:00 PM >> >>>> To: How to use LiveCode >> >>>> Cc: Mike Kerner >> >>>> Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual >> >>>> >> >>>> Ralph, >> >>>> got the source, somewhere? i'd like to learn from it. >> >>>> testing to begin...now. >> >>>> >> >>>>> On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 1:32 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < >> >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>>> I took a major stab at LCB and created a new widget based on the >> >>>>> navbar widget. I have made 2 changes to the navbar and call it >> navrad. >> >>>>> It does not modify the stock navbar. With almost no docs it was a >> >>>>> challenge. There were so many unknowns I got a few giant >> >>>>> headaches. It adds 4 new >> >>>>> properties(iconFill,autoRADHilite,preHilitedItem, >> >>>>> preHilitedItemName) and 1 new message(preHiliteChanged). I updated >> >>>>> the documentation so the new properties and message show in the >> >>>>> dictionary with example(search for "navrad" or just "rad"). >> >>>>> One thing I ran into was that I had to call the "autohilite" >> >>>>> property autoRADHilite because using any existing property causes >> >>>>> a confilict that I could not get around without sufficient docs. >> >>>>> It does show in the property inspector as "auto hilite". These >> >>>>> changes allow 1)enlarge/center the icon if there is no label >> >>>>> 2)intercept a selection before it is hilited and make a choice to >> >>>>> hilite and send the stock hiliteChanged message (or not). Why no >> >>>>> label? For one social media >> >>> icons dont need labels. Why a pre message? >> >>>>> Someone suggested it and I thought it was a great idea. Backwards >> >>>>> compatible with existing navbar LCS code. The was an auto sizing >> >>>>> to card width request. I will look to see if I can do it without >> >>>>> more >> >>> docs(or help). >> >>>>> >> >>>>> If anyone would like to try it and find any bugs it's at ==> >> >>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/51zm4m8dip49jov/com.livecode.widget.navr >> >>>>> ad.2 >> >>>>> .0.0.lce?dl=0 >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Ralph DiMola >> >>>>> IT Director >> >>>>> Evergreen Information Services >> >>>>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >> >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> >>>>> subscription preferences: >> >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> -- >> >>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the >> >>>> second >> >>> day, God created the oceans. >> >>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and >> >>>> did a little diving. >> >>>> And God said, "This is good." >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> use-livecode mailing list >> >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> >>> subscription preferences: >> >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> use-livecode mailing list >> >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> >>> subscription preferences: >> >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> use-livecode mailing list >> >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> >>> subscription preferences: >> >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second >> >> day, God created the oceans. >> >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> >> and did a little diving. >> >> And God said, "This is good." >> >> >> > >> > >> > -- >> > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second >> > day, God created the oceans. >> > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> > and did a little diving. >> > And God said, "This is good." >> > _______________________________________________ >> > use-livecode mailing list >> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Fri Sep 9 13:46:37 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 19:46:37 +0200 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6AF5BE8C-DC3F-4EA9-8490-BA6DDDD7DD7E@m-r-d.de> If you would extract the .lce file, then you could copy the extracted folder to the extension folder. Von meinem iPhone gesendet > Am 09.09.2022 um 19:05 schrieb Mike Kerner via use-livecode : > > Weird. I thought you could just toss it in the extensions folder. > >> On Fri, Sep 9, 2022 at 10:33 AM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >> Yes, And after the install you will the widget folder in your "My >> LiveCode"==>Extensions folder. It will appear the the tool palette and in >> the inclusions pane of the standalone settings. >> >> Ralph DiMola >> IT Director >> Evergreen Information Services >> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On >> Behalf Of Brian Milby via use-livecode >> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2022 9:54 AM >> To: How to use LiveCode >> Cc: Brian Milby >> Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual >> >> You have to use the IDE to install widgets. >> Tools… Extension Manager… + (icon, top right) >> >> Brian Milby >> brian at milby7.com >> >>> On Sep 9, 2022, at 9:40 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>> Throwing NavRAD into my extensions folder doesn't seem to install it. >>> I wonder why. >>> >>>> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:19 PM Mike Kerner >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> by the way, isn't it crazy how much overhead is required with lcb >> widgets? >>>> there is so...much...stuff you have to put on top just to get to the >>>> heart of the thing. >>>> and i'm never going to like the way lc embeds the comments in the >>>> source of anything. >>>> or the way they spell "favourites", or pronounce "Aluminum". Do you >>>> see an extra "i" in there? No? It's invisible, that's why. >>>> >>>> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:00 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode < >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I think the user is going to need to code the width adjustment in >>>>> the resizeStack handler. Widgets can’t change their rect on their >>>>> own. It has to happen from the LCS side. >>>>> >>>>> Brian Milby >>>>> brian at milby7.com >>>>> >>>>>> On Sep 6, 2022, at 3:29 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Mike, >>>>>> >>>>>> For future reference the source is in the .lce file. The .lce is in >>>>>> zip >>>>> format. Temporarily change the extension to .zip. You will see the >>>>> lcb file in there. Also when you install it the source will be in >>>>> the extension folder. But since I posted .lce I have put in comments >>>>> starting with "RAD Change" to show where I have made changes. Here >>>>> is the link to the updated >>>>> source==>https://www.dropbox.com/s/bv930usovpruo5e/navrad.lcb?dl=0 >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for taking a look! >>>>>> >>>>>> Also I found that after I updated the docs that the docs are >>>>>> generated >>>>> from the lcb file. I re-built the widget and boom my doc changes >>>>> were destroyed. No problem I just had redo the docs for my changes >>>>> in the lcb file. So many unknowns. I am trying to find a way to >>>>> resize it to the card width with a user setting for height percent >>>>> of card width. But the docs are so scant and confusing I feel the >> giant headache coming on again. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Ralph DiMola >>>>>> IT Director >>>>>> Evergreen Information Services >>>>>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] >>>>>> On >>>>> Behalf Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2022 3:00 PM >>>>>> To: How to use LiveCode >>>>>> Cc: Mike Kerner >>>>>> Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual >>>>>> >>>>>> Ralph, >>>>>> got the source, somewhere? i'd like to learn from it. >>>>>> testing to begin...now. >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 1:32 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I took a major stab at LCB and created a new widget based on the >>>>>>> navbar widget. I have made 2 changes to the navbar and call it >> navrad. >>>>>>> It does not modify the stock navbar. With almost no docs it was a >>>>>>> challenge. There were so many unknowns I got a few giant >>>>>>> headaches. It adds 4 new >>>>>>> properties(iconFill,autoRADHilite,preHilitedItem, >>>>>>> preHilitedItemName) and 1 new message(preHiliteChanged). I updated >>>>>>> the documentation so the new properties and message show in the >>>>>>> dictionary with example(search for "navrad" or just "rad"). >>>>>>> One thing I ran into was that I had to call the "autohilite" >>>>>>> property autoRADHilite because using any existing property causes >>>>>>> a confilict that I could not get around without sufficient docs. >>>>>>> It does show in the property inspector as "auto hilite". These >>>>>>> changes allow 1)enlarge/center the icon if there is no label >>>>>>> 2)intercept a selection before it is hilited and make a choice to >>>>>>> hilite and send the stock hiliteChanged message (or not). Why no >>>>>>> label? For one social media >>>>> icons don’t need labels. Why a pre message? >>>>>>> Someone suggested it and I thought it was a great idea. Backwards >>>>>>> compatible with existing navbar LCS code. The was an auto sizing >>>>>>> to card width request. I will look to see if I can do it without >>>>>>> more >>>>> docs(or help). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If anyone would like to try it and find any bugs it's at ==> >>>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/51zm4m8dip49jov/com.livecode.widget.navr >>>>>>> ad.2 >>>>>>> .0.0.lce?dl=0 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ralph DiMola >>>>>>> IT Director >>>>>>> Evergreen Information Services >>>>>>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the >>>>>> second >>>>> day, God created the oceans. >>>>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and >>>>>> did a little diving. >>>>>> And God said, "This is good." >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second >>>> day, God created the oceans. >>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >>>> and did a little diving. >>>> And God said, "This is good." >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second >>> day, God created the oceans. >>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >>> and did a little diving. >>> And God said, "This is good." >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Fri Sep 9 14:08:59 2022 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 14:08:59 -0400 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: <6AF5BE8C-DC3F-4EA9-8490-BA6DDDD7DD7E@m-r-d.de> References: <6AF5BE8C-DC3F-4EA9-8490-BA6DDDD7DD7E@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <002d01d8c477$3f7e1710$be7a4530$@net> The .lce file is in zip format. Change the extension to .zip to easily examine contents. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode Sent: Friday, September 09, 2022 1:47 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Matthias Rebbe Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual If you would extract the .lce file, then you could copy the extracted folder to the extension folder. Von meinem iPhone gesendet > Am 09.09.2022 um 19:05 schrieb Mike Kerner via use-livecode : > > Weird. I thought you could just toss it in the extensions folder. > >> On Fri, Sep 9, 2022 at 10:33 AM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >> Yes, And after the install you will the widget folder in your "My >> LiveCode"==>Extensions folder. It will appear the the tool palette >> and in the inclusions pane of the standalone settings. >> >> Ralph DiMola >> IT Director >> Evergreen Information Services >> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On >> Behalf Of Brian Milby via use-livecode >> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2022 9:54 AM >> To: How to use LiveCode >> Cc: Brian Milby >> Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual >> >> You have to use the IDE to install widgets. >> Tools… Extension Manager… + (icon, top right) >> >> Brian Milby >> brian at milby7.com >> >>> On Sep 9, 2022, at 9:40 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>> Throwing NavRAD into my extensions folder doesn't seem to install it. >>> I wonder why. >>> >>>> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:19 PM Mike Kerner >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> by the way, isn't it crazy how much overhead is required with lcb >> widgets? >>>> there is so...much...stuff you have to put on top just to get to >>>> the heart of the thing. >>>> and i'm never going to like the way lc embeds the comments in the >>>> source of anything. >>>> or the way they spell "favourites", or pronounce "Aluminum". Do you >>>> see an extra "i" in there? No? It's invisible, that's why. >>>> >>>> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:00 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode < >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I think the user is going to need to code the width adjustment in >>>>> the resizeStack handler. Widgets can’t change their rect on their >>>>> own. It has to happen from the LCS side. >>>>> >>>>> Brian Milby >>>>> brian at milby7.com >>>>> >>>>>> On Sep 6, 2022, at 3:29 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Mike, >>>>>> >>>>>> For future reference the source is in the .lce file. The .lce is >>>>>> in zip >>>>> format. Temporarily change the extension to .zip. You will see the >>>>> lcb file in there. Also when you install it the source will be in >>>>> the extension folder. But since I posted .lce I have put in >>>>> comments starting with "RAD Change" to show where I have made >>>>> changes. Here is the link to the updated >>>>> source==>https://www.dropbox.com/s/bv930usovpruo5e/navrad.lcb?dl=0 >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for taking a look! >>>>>> >>>>>> Also I found that after I updated the docs that the docs are >>>>>> generated >>>>> from the lcb file. I re-built the widget and boom my doc changes >>>>> were destroyed. No problem I just had redo the docs for my changes >>>>> in the lcb file. So many unknowns. I am trying to find a way to >>>>> resize it to the card width with a user setting for height percent >>>>> of card width. But the docs are so scant and confusing I feel the >> giant headache coming on again. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Ralph DiMola >>>>>> IT Director >>>>>> Evergreen Information Services >>>>>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] >>>>>> On >>>>> Behalf Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2022 3:00 PM >>>>>> To: How to use LiveCode >>>>>> Cc: Mike Kerner >>>>>> Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual >>>>>> >>>>>> Ralph, >>>>>> got the source, somewhere? i'd like to learn from it. >>>>>> testing to begin...now. >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 1:32 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I took a major stab at LCB and created a new widget based on the >>>>>>> navbar widget. I have made 2 changes to the navbar and call it >> navrad. >>>>>>> It does not modify the stock navbar. With almost no docs it was >>>>>>> a challenge. There were so many unknowns I got a few giant >>>>>>> headaches. It adds 4 new >>>>>>> properties(iconFill,autoRADHilite,preHilitedItem, >>>>>>> preHilitedItemName) and 1 new message(preHiliteChanged). I >>>>>>> updated the documentation so the new properties and message show >>>>>>> in the dictionary with example(search for "navrad" or just "rad"). >>>>>>> One thing I ran into was that I had to call the "autohilite" >>>>>>> property autoRADHilite because using any existing property >>>>>>> causes a confilict that I could not get around without sufficient docs. >>>>>>> It does show in the property inspector as "auto hilite". These >>>>>>> changes allow 1)enlarge/center the icon if there is no label >>>>>>> 2)intercept a selection before it is hilited and make a choice >>>>>>> to hilite and send the stock hiliteChanged message (or not). Why >>>>>>> no label? For one social media >>>>> icons don’t need labels. Why a pre message? >>>>>>> Someone suggested it and I thought it was a great idea. >>>>>>> Backwards compatible with existing navbar LCS code. The was an >>>>>>> auto sizing to card width request. I will look to see if I can >>>>>>> do it without more >>>>> docs(or help). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If anyone would like to try it and find any bugs it's at ==> >>>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/51zm4m8dip49jov/com.livecode.widget.na >>>>>>> vr >>>>>>> ad.2 >>>>>>> .0.0.lce?dl=0 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ralph DiMola >>>>>>> IT Director >>>>>>> Evergreen Information Services >>>>>>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the >>>>>> second >>>>> day, God created the oceans. >>>>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >>>>>> and did a little diving. >>>>>> And God said, "This is good." >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the >>>> second day, God created the oceans. >>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and >>>> did a little diving. >>>> And God said, "This is good." >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the >>> second day, God created the oceans. >>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and >>> did a little diving. >>> And God said, "This is good." >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second > day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From alex at tweedly.net Fri Sep 9 14:41:25 2022 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 19:41:25 +0100 Subject: LC converts phone number to scientific notation In-Reply-To: <5A3E8B94-0B38-4CFE-A9E5-643FA84B80D9@iotecdigital.com> References: <27688A00-CE47-4BEF-AD74-508D26423EA8@tweedly.net> <95A51D94-E599-4026-AC26-7D37C729487A@major-k.de> <5A3E8B94-0B38-4CFE-A9E5-643FA84B80D9@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: No, I just need to learn to not type emails on my iPhone :-) I do it so rarely, I forget to be careful about autocorrect. On 09/09/2022 16:39, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > Someone needs to debug their emails. ;-) > > Bob S > > > On Sep 9, 2022, at 06:32 , Klaus major-k via use-livecode > wrote: > > Put ( & item 9 of globe) onto item 6 of tnewline > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From alex at tweedly.net Fri Sep 9 14:48:27 2022 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 19:48:27 +0100 Subject: LC converts phone number to scientific notation In-Reply-To: References: <74920219-28CD-46EA-825A-61AB3EC0006F@major-k.de> Message-ID: <57e15af1-b6b4-07f5-9b1d-db917d314b34@tweedly.net> No, not all are 2-digits.   USA is one digit, many are 3 digits, none are (yet) 4 digits. A phone number would have a leading zero in many countries; usually indicating it's a non-local number (kind of similar to the leading 1- in long distance in the US, e.g. 1-800-555-1212). In the UK, numbers are, for example, 01x1 ddd nnnn, but a local number will never begin with a 0. Alex. On 09/09/2022 16:38, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > I have a function called formatPhone() I can modify it to support international notation and send it to you. Are all country codes 2 digits? And why would a phone number have a leading 0? > > Bob S > > >> On Sep 9, 2022, at 03:00 , Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Hi friends, >> >> I have a very strange problem, but also found a workaround for it. >> >> I first convert an 8 MB CSV file with 60000 lines to TAB delimited data, then I parse the file >> and just extract some columns from the 60000 lines to display in a field. >> E.g. the column "number dialled", which contains phone number like >> -> 447973100123 >> >> The CSV files are definitively correct but I found that in the resulting field some of these numbers >> appear in scientific notation >> -> 4.47888E+11 >> >> This does not happen with phone numbers with a leading ZERO: like >> -> 07557162491 >> So maybe this a small hint? >> >> However I do not even touch these items I just use: >> ... >> put item 9 of tLine into item 6 of tNewLine >> ## tLine is the line from the CSV and tNewLine is for the data in the display field. >> ... >> >> My simple workaround, no idea why, but it obviously works: >> ... >> put item 9 of tLine into ttt >> put ttt into item 6 of tNewLine >> ... >> This avoids the scientific notation, what the hell is going on here? >> Any hints welcome. >> >> >> Best >> >> Klaus >> -- >> Klaus Major >> https://www.major-k.de >> https://www.major-k.de/bass >> klaus at major-k.de >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri Sep 9 16:54:05 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 16:54:05 -0400 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: <002d01d8c477$3f7e1710$be7a4530$@net> References: <6AF5BE8C-DC3F-4EA9-8490-BA6DDDD7DD7E@m-r-d.de> <002d01d8c477$3f7e1710$be7a4530$@net> Message-ID: Thanks for the help, guys. What about this list for a next-up wishlist?: * I think some of the properties in the PI are extraneous: "selected item name", "pre Hilited item", "pre hilited name", so remove them from the PI * Add borders/margins or offsets, because on mobile, there is furniture, especially on the ipad pros, and especially in ipados 16.x, which cover parts of the nav bar * icon size selection * support embedding raw svg paths * support new icon picker widget From mark at livecode.com Sat Sep 10 02:55:20 2022 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2022 07:55:20 +0100 Subject: LC converts phone number to scientific notation In-Reply-To: References: <74920219-28CD-46EA-825A-61AB3EC0006F@major-k.de> Message-ID: On 2022-09-09 11:40, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > Hi Panos, > >> Am 09.09.2022 um 12:27 schrieb panagiotis m via use-livecode >> : >> >> Hello Klaus, >> >> I guess what happens here is that if you fetch item X of line Y and >> use it >> directly, LC treats it as a number and displays it in scientific >> notation. > > obviously! Panos isn't correct here... None of the code you posted would cause a string to be converted to a number - the engine only does that when you pass a string to something which expects a number (and returns one). Specifically the 'item' chunk is a string chunk - it just manipulates fetches or stores sequences of characters into other sequences of characters. So the problem you are having is elsewhere - and not in the code which reorders the strings of the lines you have imported. It is either happening when you import the data, or when you are displaying it. Indeed, LCS doesn't use scientific notation when converting numbers to strings implicitly - you need to use `format()` to get numbers in that string form. However, LCB *does* use scientific format when converting numbers to strings (currently at least - we've got an item on the todo list to improve that behavior). For example, the variable viewer in the SE is a treeview widget, so if a variable holds a number that will display in scientific notation if it has above a certain number of significant digits. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From gcanyon at gmail.com Sat Sep 10 04:13:09 2022 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2022 01:13:09 -0700 Subject: Stylistic question. In-Reply-To: <38D7510C-9393-4E57-9239-702EE456ACB1@iotecdigital.com> References: <1818ceeb0b0.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <990BFD28-D609-4498-9DF0-A80E605861C4@iotecdigital.com> <87FBDED9-D4FA-4280-AB55-702A7A5DBA09@iotecdigital.com> <6697AA2B-0FD5-46A1-86CF-381113B80A1E@iotecdigital.com> <1E86E371-EF17-4985-BE57-938BA45A2D64@iotecdigital.com> <38D7510C-9393-4E57-9239-702EE456ACB1@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Ah, okay, I think I understand. There's a bit to unpack here: 1. There is no direct communication between Navigator and the LC IDE toolbar. That means that the inspector triggered by the IDE toolbar will reflect whatever is selected. 2. Navigator *only* tries to change the current selection automatically when it is displaying "This Card" of "The Topstack" -- that goes both ways; it only tries to reflect the selection in the IDE when this card and the topstack are displayed. 3. Navigator will try to select controls when Select Objects is selected in the popup menu. 4. It is not always possible to select controls. As I recall, controls in groups can be selected, controls in stacks displaying as palettes or in other modes cannot. I'm not sure about controls on not-currently-displayed cards. 5. Because of (4) and (1), It is not always the case that selecting "Inspector" in the IDE toolbar will open an inspector for whatever is selected in Navigator. 1. Inspector palettes can be locked or unlocked. This is indicated by the small padlock that is, for me at least, the left-most of the right group of icons at the top of the inspector. This is unrelated to Navigator; you can click the lock or unlock the inspector. 2. I don't know the particulars of the lock in the IDE; as far as I know, it always starts out unlocked. 3. If you select "Single Object Inspector" from either the popup menu or the properties menu, Navigator will do its best to select the highlighted objects, and then open the inspector unlocked. The inspector reflects the current selection. So for example, selecting two cards and then "Single Object Inspector" *has* to fail; LiveCode doesn't support selecting two cards at once. Likewise, selecting ar card that is not the current card of the particular stack and then "Single Object Inspector" will also fail, and display the stack. I can't fix this; what to display when the inspector is unlocked is up to the inspector code. The alternative -- Individual Object Inspectors -- *will* work. It opens one copy of the inspector for each control in Navigator's selection, and opens them with the lock closed.This allows the inspector to reflect anything. But it does have the drawback of opening an individual palette for each control. I think I put a warning in if the number of controls is large, with an option to cancel. Then there is the use case where you want to have just one inspector, reflecting a number of controls that might not be "select"-able. As far as I know the IDE palette doesn't support this. Navigator's Property Editor does. It reflects any selected controls in Navigator when it is opened, and can set properties for all of them at once. It can also be opened as a separate palette. In that case it reflects the most recent selection in whichever copy of Navigator you interact with, meaning that if you make a new selection of controls in a different copy of Navigator, that will be reflected in the palette. The Navigator Property Editor is a simple list for speed. It displays only the properties the controls have in common, snd bolds the ones where the obects' properties differ. There's more to the palette, but I don't want to write (more of) a novel. Hopefully this helps. As far as I know Navigator is working properly regarding this use case. Thanks for the feedback! Geoff On Thu, Sep 8, 2022 at 8:38 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Yes that works. What doesn't work is selecting the card in the list, then > clicking the Inspector button in the LC IDE toolbar. It's easier for me to > do that because if I click another object in Navigator, the focus of the > Inspector (Properties Editor) changes to the selected object. If I do the > right-click single object method, sometimes the focus does NOT change, and > I have to do the right-click thungummy again. > > Bob S > > > On Sep 8, 2022, at 24:54 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> > wrote: > > Can you be more specific? I tried selecting the card both in the live > display and the specific card display, and then on the Properties "P" menu > I selected Property Editor, Single Object Inspector, and Individual Object > Inspectors, and it always came up showing the card. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sat Sep 10 12:02:49 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2022 12:02:49 -0400 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <6AF5BE8C-DC3F-4EA9-8490-BA6DDDD7DD7E@m-r-d.de> <002d01d8c477$3f7e1710$be7a4530$@net> Message-ID: Update: * Put it on github because I'm starting to tweak it, too (on the develop branch - Ralph's original version is on the Deploy branch) * Made several properties invisible in the Properties Inspector * on to the next item on the list On Fri, Sep 9, 2022 at 4:54 PM Mike Kerner wrote: > Thanks for the help, guys. > What about this list for a next-up wishlist?: > * I think some of the properties in the PI are extraneous: "selected item > name", "pre Hilited item", "pre hilited name", so remove them from the PI > * Add borders/margins or offsets, because on mobile, there is furniture, > especially on the ipad pros, and especially in ipados 16.x, which cover > parts of the nav bar > * icon size selection > * support embedding raw svg paths > * support new icon picker widget > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From klaus at major-k.de Sat Sep 10 12:48:29 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2022 18:48:29 +0200 Subject: LC converts phone number to scientific notation In-Reply-To: References: <74920219-28CD-46EA-825A-61AB3EC0006F@major-k.de> Message-ID: <5711E451-7A19-4B33-9D7B-CE027BB75DD4@major-k.de> Hi Mark, > Am 10.09.2022 um 08:55 schrieb Mark Waddingham via use-livecode : > > On 2022-09-09 11:40, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >> Hi Panos, >>> Am 09.09.2022 um 12:27 schrieb panagiotis m via use-livecode : >>> Hello Klaus, >>> I guess what happens here is that if you fetch item X of line Y and use it >>> directly, LC treats it as a number and displays it in scientific notation. >> obviously! > > Panos isn't correct here... > None of the code you posted would cause a string to be converted to a number - the engine only does that when you pass a string to something which expects a number (and returns one). > Specifically the 'item' chunk is a string chunk - it just manipulates fetches or stores sequences of characters into other sequences of characters. > So the problem you are having is elsewhere - and not in the code which reorders the strings of the lines you have imported. > It is either happening when you import the data, or when you are displaying it. Well, the imported (dropped) file does not contain these strings then I am only setting the text of a field to the collected lines (tNewLine) after the repeat loop: ... put item 9 of tLine into item 6 of tNewLine ... > Indeed, LCS doesn't use scientific notation when converting numbers to strings implicitly - you need to use `format()` to get numbers in that string form. Hm, the debugger also has this problem and the bug does not seem to be fixed yet: OK, anyway, do you have a hint on how to debug this with my 60000 lines file? I checked the "item 9" (see above) and even "item 6 of tNewLine" after the line above for scientific notation, no dice, I can only see this behavior in the field after I filled in the new data? Will keep on exploring... > However, LCB *does* use scientific format when converting numbers to strings (currently at least - we've got an item on the todo list to improve that behavior). For example, the variable viewer in the SE is a treeview widget, so if a variable holds a number that will display in scientific notation if it has above a certain number of significant digits. Thanks for chiming in! > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > > -- > Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Everyone can create apps Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Sat Sep 10 13:44:12 2022 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2022 13:44:12 -0400 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <6AF5BE8C-DC3F-4EA9-8490-BA6DDDD7DD7E@m-r-d.de> <002d01d8c477$3f7e1710$be7a4530$@net> Message-ID: <000d01d8c53c$f3cc6d00$db654700$@net> I also got rid of the 3 properties. I have a Icon Zoom percent that defaults to 100 % for all icons just about finished. I guess I'll have to understand github. I was hoping to avoid it until I retire. Every time I go to github it's just so confusing just to get something that's there. It's not intuitive at all. It gives me a headache bigger than LCB if that's possible. Is there any place that explains how to use it with some clarity? Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2022 12:03 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Mike Kerner Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual Update: * Put it on github because I'm starting to tweak it, too (on the develop branch - Ralph's original version is on the Deploy branch) * Made several properties invisible in the Properties Inspector * on to the next item on the list On Fri, Sep 9, 2022 at 4:54 PM Mike Kerner wrote: > Thanks for the help, guys. > What about this list for a next-up wishlist?: > * I think some of the properties in the PI are extraneous: "selected > item name", "pre Hilited item", "pre hilited name", so remove them > from the PI > * Add borders/margins or offsets, because on mobile, there is > furniture, especially on the ipad pros, and especially in ipados 16.x, > which cover parts of the nav bar > * icon size selection > * support embedding raw svg paths > * support new icon picker widget > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sat Sep 10 13:53:57 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2022 13:53:57 -0400 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: <000d01d8c53c$f3cc6d00$db654700$@net> References: <6AF5BE8C-DC3F-4EA9-8490-BA6DDDD7DD7E@m-r-d.de> <002d01d8c477$3f7e1710$be7a4530$@net> <000d01d8c53c$f3cc6d00$db654700$@net> Message-ID: tell you what: email me what you do, and i'll email you what i do, and then i'll put it up on the repo, and then you don't have to. On Sat, Sep 10, 2022 at 1:45 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I also got rid of the 3 properties. I have a Icon Zoom percent that > defaults > to 100 % for all icons just about finished. > > I guess I'll have to understand github. I was hoping to avoid it until I > retire. Every time I go to github it's just so confusing just to get > something that's there. It's not intuitive at all. It gives me a headache > bigger than LCB if that's possible. Is there any place that explains how to > use it with some clarity? > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On > Behalf > Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode > Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2022 12:03 PM > To: How to use LiveCode > Cc: Mike Kerner > Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual > > Update: > * Put it on github because I'm starting to tweak it, too (on the develop > branch - Ralph's original version is on the Deploy branch) > * Made several properties invisible in the Properties Inspector > * on to the next item on the list > > On Fri, Sep 9, 2022 at 4:54 PM Mike Kerner > wrote: > > > Thanks for the help, guys. > > What about this list for a next-up wishlist?: > > * I think some of the properties in the PI are extraneous: "selected > > item name", "pre Hilited item", "pre hilited name", so remove them > > from the PI > > * Add borders/margins or offsets, because on mobile, there is > > furniture, especially on the ipad pros, and especially in ipados 16.x, > > which cover parts of the nav bar > > * icon size selection > > * support embedding raw svg paths > > * support new icon picker widget > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, > God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sat Sep 10 13:59:47 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2022 13:59:47 -0400 Subject: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <55236804-6B06-47A8-8ECF-AA548BC9F892@milby7.com> Message-ID: I was trying to work on Ralph's improvements on the navBar and I kept getting bitten by the thin documentation of lcb, so for my own benefit, i started a wiki and issues list to fill in the blanks Please help me learn lcb by adding to both of these. The wiki: https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual/wiki The issues: https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual/issues On Fri, Sep 2, 2022 at 8:42 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 9/2/22 16:54, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote: > > Did a simple test with 819kb json file: > > - JSON Library / LCB 5400 ms > > - PhotonJSON / LCS 400 ms > > - mergJSON / extension 250 ms > > That's impressive. Monte's external is written in C, so that's as close > to bare metal as we're gonna get. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From brian at milby7.com Sat Sep 10 15:35:49 2022 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2022 15:35:49 -0400 Subject: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <659B03EE-86BD-450C-BA9D-FD4859DBC6E5@milby7.com> Honestly the way I learned the most about LCB was working on the LC widgets. There is plenty of example code there but you just have to spend time understanding what you are reading. Brian Milby brian at milby7.com > On Sep 10, 2022, at 2:01 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > I was trying to work on Ralph's improvements on the navBar and I kept > getting bitten by the thin documentation of lcb, so for my own benefit, i > started a wiki and issues list to fill in the blanks > Please help me learn lcb by adding to both of these. > The wiki: https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual/wiki > The issues: https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual/issues > > >> On Fri, Sep 2, 2022 at 8:42 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>> On 9/2/22 16:54, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote: >>> Did a simple test with 819kb json file: >>> - JSON Library / LCB 5400 ms >>> - PhotonJSON / LCS 400 ms >>> - mergJSON / extension 250 ms >> >> That's impressive. Monte's external is written in C, so that's as close >> to bare metal as we're gonna get. >> >> -- >> Mark Wieder >> ahsoftware at gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sat Sep 10 15:47:58 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2022 15:47:58 -0400 Subject: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: <659B03EE-86BD-450C-BA9D-FD4859DBC6E5@milby7.com> References: <659B03EE-86BD-450C-BA9D-FD4859DBC6E5@milby7.com> Message-ID: I was about to call you out, too, Brian. I started trying to work with LCB several years ago, kept slamming into things that weren't documented, and decided I had better things to do with my time. Now I'm back at it, but I don't think it should be such a black hole, especially when I put it down for a couple of months and then want to get back into it. If we want other people to take the plunge, and maybe invent cool stuff using it, something better than what exists, now, should exist. On Sat, Sep 10, 2022 at 3:36 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Honestly the way I learned the most about LCB was working on the LC > widgets. There is plenty of example code there but you just have to spend > time understanding what you are reading. > > Brian Milby > brian at milby7.com > > > On Sep 10, 2022, at 2:01 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > I was trying to work on Ralph's improvements on the navBar and I kept > > getting bitten by the thin documentation of lcb, so for my own benefit, i > > started a wiki and issues list to fill in the blanks > > Please help me learn lcb by adding to both of these. > > The wiki: https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual/wiki > > The issues: https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual/issues > > > > > >> On Fri, Sep 2, 2022 at 8:42 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode < > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> > >>> On 9/2/22 16:54, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote: > >>> Did a simple test with 819kb json file: > >>> - JSON Library / LCB 5400 ms > >>> - PhotonJSON / LCS 400 ms > >>> - mergJSON / extension 250 ms > >> > >> That's impressive. Monte's external is written in C, so that's as close > >> to bare metal as we're gonna get. > >> > >> -- > >> Mark Wieder > >> ahsoftware at gmail.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From brian at milby7.com Sat Sep 10 21:47:31 2022 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2022 21:47:31 -0400 Subject: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <659B03EE-86BD-450C-BA9D-FD4859DBC6E5@milby7.com> Message-ID: I guess I never answered the original question: The editor type isn't a LCB thing. Those are a part of the IDE. Here is the path from the open source repository: .../livecode/ide/Toolset/palettes/inspector/editors/ You should also be able to find them in your local install of LC. /Applications/LiveCode/LiveCode 9.6.9 (rc 1).app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/palettes/inspector/editors/ I agree that they should be documented somewhere. Looking at the names there, most that you would use are probably fairly evident. The LiveCode Builder Style Guide/Widget specific guidelines covers the 4 entries needed to use many of the PI editors. There is one in a widget that could be useful though "user_visible" - this property is not displayed in the PI but is available to get/set. "options" looks to be specific to the "enum" editor. The Extending Livecode Guide covers the 4 that are needed for the widget as a whole. It does look like there are a few additional ones used in widgets that are not mentioned that should be included in the docs (os, svgicon, preferredsize, userVisible, _ide). I tend to be fairly adept at reading and understanding code - even if I don't know the syntax well enough to write it. So I didn't really read the documentation to learn LCB (but referenced the syntax and style guide as needed), but read the widgets that I was working on. As such, the things you are having difficulty finding didn't really impact my efforts. I was mainly extending the widget and was just copying existing code as a model when adding things (properties and handlers). About the only thing that really tripped me up was aliased properties. You have to define the main property and then alias works. If you define the alias, then it doesn't work (TreeView widget - scroll vice vscroll). Considering all of this, I consider all of the included LCB source code as part of the documentation for LCB. I'll add some comments to your "issues" Thanks, Brian On Sat, Sep 10, 2022 at 3:49 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I was about to call you out, too, Brian. > I started trying to work with LCB several years ago, kept slamming into > things that weren't documented, and decided I had better things to do with > my time. > Now I'm back at it, but I don't think it should be such a black hole, > especially when I put it down for a couple of months and then want to get > back into it. > If we want other people to take the plunge, and maybe invent cool stuff > using it, something better than what exists, now, should exist. > > On Sat, Sep 10, 2022 at 3:36 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > Honestly the way I learned the most about LCB was working on the LC > > widgets. There is plenty of example code there but you just have to > spend > > time understanding what you are reading. > > > > Brian Milby > > brian at milby7.com > > > > > On Sep 10, 2022, at 2:01 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > > > I was trying to work on Ralph's improvements on the navBar and I kept > > > getting bitten by the thin documentation of lcb, so for my own > benefit, i > > > started a wiki and issues list to fill in the blanks > > > Please help me learn lcb by adding to both of these. > > > The wiki: https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual/wiki > > > The issues: https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual/issues > > > > > > > > >> On Fri, Sep 2, 2022 at 8:42 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode < > > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > >> > > >>> On 9/2/22 16:54, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote: > > >>> Did a simple test with 819kb json file: > > >>> - JSON Library / LCB 5400 ms > > >>> - PhotonJSON / LCS 400 ms > > >>> - mergJSON / extension 250 ms > > >> > > >> That's impressive. Monte's external is written in C, so that's as > close > > >> to bare metal as we're gonna get. > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Mark Wieder > > >> ahsoftware at gmail.com > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> use-livecode mailing list > > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > >> subscription preferences: > > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > >> > > > > > > > > > -- > > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > > and did a little diving. > > > And God said, "This is good." > > > _______________________________________________ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sun Sep 11 00:39:14 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2022 00:39:14 -0400 Subject: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <659B03EE-86BD-450C-BA9D-FD4859DBC6E5@milby7.com> Message-ID: I emailed this privately to Brian, but I'll include it here for everyone, too. The versions of the LCB manuals that are on LC's website (at least the ones that I was able to find), are dated. The versions that are included embedded in LC are much more complete (though still missing things). Until I was putting the wiki together, I didn't realize they were different. So, until LC updates the version on the site, use the version that's embedded in LC itself. Anyway, Brian, it would be good to either have a "gotchas" page or another wiki pages about aliased properties having to be defined before they are aliased. I think it would be good to add examples to the wiki as well, to make it easier for more people to approach LCB, faster. On Sat, Sep 10, 2022 at 9:48 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I guess I never answered the original question: > > The editor type isn't a LCB thing. Those are a part of the IDE. Here is > the path from the open source repository: > .../livecode/ide/Toolset/palettes/inspector/editors/ > You should also be able to find them in your local install of LC. > /Applications/LiveCode/LiveCode 9.6.9 (rc > 1).app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/palettes/inspector/editors/ > I agree that they should be documented somewhere. Looking at the names > there, most that you would use are probably fairly evident. > > The LiveCode Builder Style Guide/Widget specific guidelines covers the 4 > entries needed to use many of the PI editors. There is one in a widget > that could be useful though "user_visible" - this property is not displayed > in the PI but is available to get/set. "options" looks to be specific to > the "enum" editor. > > The Extending Livecode Guide covers the 4 that are needed for the widget as > a whole. It does look like there are a few additional ones used in widgets > that are not mentioned that should be included in the docs (os, svgicon, > preferredsize, userVisible, _ide). > > I tend to be fairly adept at reading and understanding code - even if I > don't know the syntax well enough to write it. So I didn't really read the > documentation to learn LCB (but referenced the syntax and style guide as > needed), but read the widgets that I was working on. As such, the things > you are having difficulty finding didn't really impact my efforts. I was > mainly extending the widget and was just copying existing code as a model > when adding things (properties and handlers). About the only thing that > really tripped me up was aliased properties. You have to define the main > property and then alias works. If you define the alias, then it doesn't > work (TreeView widget - scroll vice vscroll). Considering all of this, I > consider all of the included LCB source code as part of the documentation > for LCB. > > I'll add some comments to your "issues" > > Thanks, > Brian > > > On Sat, Sep 10, 2022 at 3:49 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > I was about to call you out, too, Brian. > > I started trying to work with LCB several years ago, kept slamming into > > things that weren't documented, and decided I had better things to do > with > > my time. > > Now I'm back at it, but I don't think it should be such a black hole, > > especially when I put it down for a couple of months and then want to get > > back into it. > > If we want other people to take the plunge, and maybe invent cool stuff > > using it, something better than what exists, now, should exist. > > > > On Sat, Sep 10, 2022 at 3:36 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > > Honestly the way I learned the most about LCB was working on the LC > > > widgets. There is plenty of example code there but you just have to > > spend > > > time understanding what you are reading. > > > > > > Brian Milby > > > brian at milby7.com > > > > > > > On Sep 10, 2022, at 2:01 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > I was trying to work on Ralph's improvements on the navBar and I > kept > > > > getting bitten by the thin documentation of lcb, so for my own > > benefit, i > > > > started a wiki and issues list to fill in the blanks > > > > Please help me learn lcb by adding to both of these. > > > > The wiki: https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual/wiki > > > > The issues: https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual/issues > > > > > > > > > > > >> On Fri, Sep 2, 2022 at 8:42 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode < > > > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> On 9/2/22 16:54, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote: > > > >>> Did a simple test with 819kb json file: > > > >>> - JSON Library / LCB 5400 ms > > > >>> - PhotonJSON / LCS 400 ms > > > >>> - mergJSON / extension 250 ms > > > >> > > > >> That's impressive. Monte's external is written in C, so that's as > > close > > > >> to bare metal as we're gonna get. > > > >> > > > >> -- > > > >> Mark Wieder > > > >> ahsoftware at gmail.com > > > >> > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> use-livecode mailing list > > > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > >> subscription preferences: > > > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > > > and did a little diving. > > > > And God said, "This is good." > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > subscription preferences: > > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sun Sep 11 11:20:40 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2022 11:20:40 -0400 Subject: Livecode Builder -how t write to a file? In-Reply-To: <5E7A5A08-0B06-46D4-8A97-74F057C834D5@m-r-d.de> References: <9D894134-797F-4426-9FF1-9DEFAC1E1FC8@m-r-d.de> <5E7A5A08-0B06-46D4-8A97-74F057C834D5@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: Try execute script that throws you over the wall into LCS On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 6:46 PM matthias rebbe via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Thanks Zryip, > > i think that is a good workaround. ;) > > Thanks. > > Regards, > Matthias > > > > Am 22.08.2022 um 00:38 schrieb zryip theSlug via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: > > > > Dear Matthias, > > > > I do not have the answer but a possible workaround. > > > > For debugging purposes I'm using the post message. > > > > In LCB add this handler: > > private handler throwWidgetError(in pError as String) returns nothing > > post "catchWidgetError" with [pError] > > end handler > > > > Call it by using: > > throwWidgetError("Something to log") > > > > And catch it by adding this handler into the card script where you test > > your widget: > > > > *command* catchWidgetError pTheError > > * put* pTheError & cr after msg > > *end* catchWidgetError > > > > This might be verbose as the message box will take the focus, and the > > widget will refresh, so logging in a file instead of the message box > would > > be a possibility. > > > > *command* catchWidgetError pTheError > > * write *pTheError to file "xxx" > > *end* catchWidgetError > > > > On Sun, 21 Aug 2022 at 20:59, matthias rebbe via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > >> Hi. > >> > >> From time to time and when time allows i am trying to get used to with > >> Livecode Builder. > >> For debugging i would like my lcb script to write some debug code to a > >> file, but i really do not see how this can be done. > >> I found the experimental com.livecode.file module and the operator 'the > >> filecontents of file...', but unfortunately no script example. > >> > >> Does anyone know, if and how i can write some data to an external file > on > >> hard disk in LCB? > >> > >> > >> Regards, > >> Matthias > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > > > > > -- > > Zryip TheSlug > > http://www.aslugontheroad.com > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From kee.nethery at elloco.com Sun Sep 11 17:32:04 2022 From: kee.nethery at elloco.com (kee nethery) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2022 14:32:04 -0700 Subject: LC converts phone number to scientific notation In-Reply-To: <74920219-28CD-46EA-825A-61AB3EC0006F@major-k.de> References: <74920219-28CD-46EA-825A-61AB3EC0006F@major-k.de> Message-ID: <05D90C92-D36F-489D-8F94-115BACF12EB4@elloco.com> I had the same problem with long integer numbers being imported into a spreadsheet. My solution was to append “a” to the numbers before they got imported into the spreadsheet. Kee Nethery > On Sep 9, 2022, at 3:00 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi friends, > > I have a very strange problem, but also found a workaround for it. > > I first convert an 8 MB CSV file with 60000 lines to TAB delimited data, then I parse the file > and just extract some columns from the 60000 lines to display in a field. > E.g. the column "number dialled", which contains phone number like > -> 447973100123 > > The CSV files are definitively correct but I found that in the resulting field some of these numbers > appear in scientific notation > -> 4.47888E+11 > > This does not happen with phone numbers with a leading ZERO: like > -> 07557162491 > So maybe this a small hint? > > However I do not even touch these items I just use: > ... > put item 9 of tLine into item 6 of tNewLine > ## tLine is the line from the CSV and tNewLine is for the data in the display field. > ... > > My simple workaround, no idea why, but it obviously works: > ... > put item 9 of tLine into ttt > put ttt into item 6 of tNewLine > ... > This avoids the scientific notation, what the hell is going on here? > Any hints welcome. > > > Best > > Klaus > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > https://www.major-k.de/bass > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sun Sep 11 19:44:50 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2022 19:44:50 -0400 Subject: Livecode Builder -how t write to a file? In-Reply-To: References: <9D894134-797F-4426-9FF1-9DEFAC1E1FC8@m-r-d.de> <5E7A5A08-0B06-46D4-8A97-74F057C834D5@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: >From Brian, answering the same question on the LCB Missing Manual repo "See the contents of file File in the LCB dictionary. The actual name is FileContents" On Sun, Sep 11, 2022 at 11:20 AM Mike Kerner wrote: > Try execute script > that throws you over the wall into LCS > > > On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 6:46 PM matthias rebbe via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Thanks Zryip, >> >> i think that is a good workaround. ;) >> >> Thanks. >> >> Regards, >> Matthias >> >> >> > Am 22.08.2022 um 00:38 schrieb zryip theSlug via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: >> > >> > Dear Matthias, >> > >> > I do not have the answer but a possible workaround. >> > >> > For debugging purposes I'm using the post message. >> > >> > In LCB add this handler: >> > private handler throwWidgetError(in pError as String) returns nothing >> > post "catchWidgetError" with [pError] >> > end handler >> > >> > Call it by using: >> > throwWidgetError("Something to log") >> > >> > And catch it by adding this handler into the card script where you test >> > your widget: >> > >> > *command* catchWidgetError pTheError >> > * put* pTheError & cr after msg >> > *end* catchWidgetError >> > >> > This might be verbose as the message box will take the focus, and the >> > widget will refresh, so logging in a file instead of the message box >> would >> > be a possibility. >> > >> > *command* catchWidgetError pTheError >> > * write *pTheError to file "xxx" >> > *end* catchWidgetError >> > >> > On Sun, 21 Aug 2022 at 20:59, matthias rebbe via use-livecode < >> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> > >> >> Hi. >> >> >> >> From time to time and when time allows i am trying to get used to with >> >> Livecode Builder. >> >> For debugging i would like my lcb script to write some debug code to a >> >> file, but i really do not see how this can be done. >> >> I found the experimental com.livecode.file module and the operator 'the >> >> filecontents of file...', but unfortunately no script example. >> >> >> >> Does anyone know, if and how i can write some data to an external file >> on >> >> hard disk in LCB? >> >> >> >> >> >> Regards, >> >> Matthias >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> use-livecode mailing list >> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> >> subscription preferences: >> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Zryip TheSlug >> > http://www.aslugontheroad.com >> > _______________________________________________ >> > use-livecode mailing list >> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sun Sep 11 23:21:00 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2022 23:21:00 -0400 Subject: Livecode Builder -how t write to a file? In-Reply-To: References: <9D894134-797F-4426-9FF1-9DEFAC1E1FC8@m-r-d.de> <5E7A5A08-0B06-46D4-8A97-74F057C834D5@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: one other note on execute script, if you choose to go that route: you cannot use it until the OnLoad() and OnCreate() events achieve. On Sun, Sep 11, 2022 at 7:44 PM Mike Kerner wrote: > From Brian, answering the same question on the LCB Missing Manual repo > "See the contents of file File in the LCB dictionary. The actual name is > FileContents" > > On Sun, Sep 11, 2022 at 11:20 AM Mike Kerner > wrote: > >> Try execute script >> that throws you over the wall into LCS >> >> >> On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 6:46 PM matthias rebbe via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>> Thanks Zryip, >>> >>> i think that is a good workaround. ;) >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Matthias >>> >>> >>> > Am 22.08.2022 um 00:38 schrieb zryip theSlug via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: >>> > >>> > Dear Matthias, >>> > >>> > I do not have the answer but a possible workaround. >>> > >>> > For debugging purposes I'm using the post message. >>> > >>> > In LCB add this handler: >>> > private handler throwWidgetError(in pError as String) returns nothing >>> > post "catchWidgetError" with [pError] >>> > end handler >>> > >>> > Call it by using: >>> > throwWidgetError("Something to log") >>> > >>> > And catch it by adding this handler into the card script where you test >>> > your widget: >>> > >>> > *command* catchWidgetError pTheError >>> > * put* pTheError & cr after msg >>> > *end* catchWidgetError >>> > >>> > This might be verbose as the message box will take the focus, and the >>> > widget will refresh, so logging in a file instead of the message box >>> would >>> > be a possibility. >>> > >>> > *command* catchWidgetError pTheError >>> > * write *pTheError to file "xxx" >>> > *end* catchWidgetError >>> > >>> > On Sun, 21 Aug 2022 at 20:59, matthias rebbe via use-livecode < >>> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> > >>> >> Hi. >>> >> >>> >> From time to time and when time allows i am trying to get used to with >>> >> Livecode Builder. >>> >> For debugging i would like my lcb script to write some debug code to a >>> >> file, but i really do not see how this can be done. >>> >> I found the experimental com.livecode.file module and the operator >>> 'the >>> >> filecontents of file...', but unfortunately no script example. >>> >> >>> >> Does anyone know, if and how i can write some data to an external >>> file on >>> >> hard disk in LCB? >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Regards, >>> >> Matthias >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> use-livecode mailing list >>> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> >> subscription preferences: >>> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > Zryip TheSlug >>> > http://www.aslugontheroad.com >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > use-livecode mailing list >>> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> >> -- >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >> On the second day, God created the oceans. >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> and did a little diving. >> And God said, "This is good." >> > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From paul at livecode.org Sun Sep 11 23:29:59 2022 From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2022 20:29:59 -0700 Subject: Sort Ascending DateTime - failure Message-ID: <316E4EFB-AF90-42FB-B40E-A8B4091C2FF6@livecode.org> While playing around with the PolyGrid, I wanted to try adding sorting options by clicking the PolyGrid Header Labels. The solution I came up with drove me nuts until I discovered that there appears to be an issue associated with the sort command and dateTime. According to the dictionary, text can be sorted by dateTime, and the entry for dateTime states… "The dateTime keyword recognizes all LiveCode's date and time formats and sorts them in time order, rather than alphabetical or numeric order." Date Formats: the [{ long | abbreviated | short }] [{ english | system }] date …So I was expecting to be able to sort the PolyGrid by the dates as entered, because they are set to the same format as the system date on my Mac, however, sorting by dateTime fails (on my Mac) when the system is set to use dashes as date separators. e.g.: 11-09-2022, it works fine with any other format. e.g.: 11/09/2022 I know that I can work around this fairly easily, but I see this as a bug. Before I report it, I figured it would be best to ask here if anyone else has come across this, or am I missing something? Seems like this should have been caught a long time ago. macOS Monterey Version 12.5.1 LiveCode 9.6.8 & 10.0.0 (dp 4) Paul From paul at livecode.org Sun Sep 11 23:55:35 2022 From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2022 20:55:35 -0700 Subject: Sort Ascending DateTime - failure In-Reply-To: <316E4EFB-AF90-42FB-B40E-A8B4091C2FF6@livecode.org> References: <316E4EFB-AF90-42FB-B40E-A8B4091C2FF6@livecode.org> Message-ID: Should have waited to send this, on further investigation, I found the useSystemDate property, now all is well. Sorry for the noise! > On 11Sep, 2022, at 8:29 PM, Paul Hibbert via use-livecode wrote: > > While playing around with the PolyGrid, I wanted to try adding sorting options by clicking the PolyGrid Header Labels. The solution I came up with drove me nuts until I discovered that there appears to be an issue associated with the sort command and dateTime. > > According to the dictionary, text can be sorted by dateTime, and the entry for dateTime states… > > "The dateTime keyword recognizes all LiveCode's date and time formats and sorts them in time order, rather than alphabetical or numeric order." > > Date Formats: > > the [{ long | abbreviated | short }] [{ english | system }] date > > …So I was expecting to be able to sort the PolyGrid by the dates as entered, because they are set to the same format as the system date on my Mac, however, sorting by dateTime fails (on my Mac) when the system is set to use dashes as date separators. e.g.: 11-09-2022, it works fine with any other format. e.g.: 11/09/2022 > > I know that I can work around this fairly easily, but I see this as a bug. Before I report it, I figured it would be best to ask here if anyone else has come across this, or am I missing something? Seems like this should have been caught a long time ago. > > macOS Monterey > Version 12.5.1 > LiveCode 9.6.8 & 10.0.0 (dp 4) > > Paul > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Mon Sep 12 01:24:57 2022 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2022 15:24:57 +1000 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance Message-ID: <5849A832-9EC5-4815-91DB-82376B2A7C7A@optusnet.com.au> I have enough datapoints to report some findings from my comparison of the appearance of fonts across platforms, in particular on the length of strings in fields and text baselines, and to correct some of my previous statements. My intention is to compile a database for some 7000+ fonts in 7 different font sizes ranging from 9pt to 18pt on Mac Windows and Linux system; but for now (for reasons given below) I looked at four basic fonts in common use: Arial, Times New Roman, Noto Sans and Noto Serif. The good news is that the horrible problem of different strings lengths is no longer a problem, as long as your target platforms are just Mac or Windows 10. For each of these four fonts, strings in (right or left justified) fields have the same rendered length (they differ between fonts of course). I would be confident that holds for all TrueType fonts installed on these platforms, starting from the advent of Windows 10. My former claim about a difference between High Sierra and Monterey on the Mac is incorrect, the result of a coding error. Of course the field or stack must have a font assigned: leaving the font to empty will result in the system using its own font, which will be consistent with the look-and-feel of the platform/system version, but which will certainly be quite different between platforms. On LInux (Ubuntu 18.x) however, string lengths for all the fonts in all sizes are quite different, sometimes longer and sometimes shorter than on the other platforms. The biggest difference was for Noto Sans 9pt, the sample Linux string being 14% longer; this was an outlier, mostly the Linux strings were less than 8% longer. In the other directions was Arial 15pt, where Linux was 5% shorter. So if Linux is a target platform, allow some extra length for your fields (on the right for a left justified field, on the left for a right justified label). A more difficult problem is the vertical placement of text. With the default settings for fields, strings in Windows will typically appear 2 or 3 pixels lower than on a Mac, which can mess with your layout — text carefully positioned on one platform will appear too close to nearby objects on the other, or will not align with text in adjacent fields. This can be fixed by adjusting the topMargin of the field, but the details are not straightforward.. The baseline for rendered strings is determined by the font metrics and the font size; unfortunately Mac Windows and Linux all use different metrics from each other. It would be nice if LC had a function which returned the baseline for the rendered string, but I couldn’t find such a function. The closest formula I can get is (for text using the textFont and textSize of the owner field, and consigning to oblivion the formula I had previously proposed which was caused by the aforementioned error plus a glitch in the data processing unit, ie my brain.) first baseline relative to the top of the field = the topMargin of the field + fontAscent - 6 where fontAscent = - (item 2 of measureText(fld ,fld ,”bounds”) Why the magic number -6? It seems this places text in a common font such as Time New Roman or Arial in medium range textSizes such as 11 to 15 so that the top of the lower case character “x” is at ...approximately... the topMargin of the field. This would be the ideal placement for text at all fonts and sizes, but of course in general 6 is nothing like the difference between the fontAscent (the height of the capital “A” above the baseline) and the height of “x”, and anyway the fontAscent is not the actual height of the font, so for other sizes and fonts the placement is wildly different from the ideal. The simplification is probably a legacy of a decision originally made for speed given the complications of dealing with different font formats; a correction now would break all existing stacks. Actually while my formula fits precisely most of the time, it occasionally is out by 1 pixel. And that precision holds for all fonts I have looked at, even for the gorgeously extravagant Zapfino at 64pt. So the discrepancy is probably some floating point rounding from the correct formula. If anyone (LC engineer’s?) can provide the correct formula that would be nice, but I have the feeling it may involve a font metric not directly exposed by the LC api. The formula can be used to adjust the topMargin so that the baseline is fixed, to within 1 pixel anyway The adjustment would have to be done at runtime, or applied to a stack before building a standalone for a particular platform, using a pre-cooked fontAscent. Hence my database project. Just at the moment this has hit a bit of snag: as far as I can see, fonts have to be added to Windows 10 one at a time -- on a Mac you just dump a folder of fonts onto Font Book. Does anyone know how to do this in Windows and Linux? If necessary, following Ralph’s post I believe I could work out where the Mac and Windows 10 systems pick up their ascent parameters by parsing the ttf metadata (horrors!), but the Linux values are another mystery. The apparently obvious solution to the problem is to set fixedLineHeight to true, but unfortunately this does not work. The bottom of each character glyph will I guess be placed on a fixed line independently of the font, size or platform, but that is not the baseline, which will still be dependent on font metrics. The result is that even with fixedLineHeight true baselines are different for different sizes of a given font, and for different fonts for a given size even on the same platform (so adjacent fields with different fonts or sizes will not align baselines), and also different for a given font and size on different platforms so the layout looks sloppy. My formula for the first baseline for a field with fixed line height is baseline = the topMargin of the field + the textHeight of the field - item 2 of measureText(the field,the text,"size”) + fontAscent - 7 which again seems to be accurate except for a few (different!) cases where it is 1 pixel out. Again, if anyone knows the exact formula I would be grateful to hear it. Possibly an enhancement to LC could provide a fixedBaseline,baseline pair of properties for fields, which would set the first baseline at a user value, bleeding the text into the top margin, thus eliminating this problem. Neville From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Sep 12 22:51:46 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2022 19:51:46 -0700 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: <5849A832-9EC5-4815-91DB-82376B2A7C7A@optusnet.com.au> References: <5849A832-9EC5-4815-91DB-82376B2A7C7A@optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: This discussion has been very interesting to me. The team worked hard in v9 to deliver font management in a way that makes it easier than ever to deliver apps that meet user expectations and OS design specs on the platforms deployed to. Mac looks like Mac, Win looks like Win, all with one font setting. I used to have to work really hard with all sorts of workarounds to get that platform-savvy look, and now with the team's efforts with v9 it's a snap. Of course we all use the web, and I used to subscribe to CD-ROM publications that deliver textual content for multiple platforms. So I see the value in getting heading and body content in text-focused content-driven apps to look reasonably on-brand across platforms. But in all my native and web dev reading over the decades I don't think I've seen this much effort expended toward attempting to get near-perfect parity for text appearance across platforms (except for prepress, but that's another era). But I know you folks. You wouldn't put in this kind of effort if it wasn't useful. So help me understand: what are you working on where a user expects fine-grained font rendering consistency on multiple OSes? What do these apps do? Do your users switch OSes during a session, or work on Windows by day and Mac at night? How many also use Linux in that multi-OS workflow? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Sep 13 11:11:37 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2022 15:11:37 +0000 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: References: <5849A832-9EC5-4815-91DB-82376B2A7C7A@optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <45096339-7BFC-4AF4-9412-E2895F394B3F@iotecdigital.com> For me it's simple. I want the same baseline and alignment on two platforms I work with, MacOS and Windows, when using an embedded font. My particular issue is I think a bug and I am reminded to send Panos a sample stack demonstrating the issue. EXACT PRECICE EQUIVALENCE of font appearance is not my goal, and I don't think can ever be accomplished, due to the reasons cited before. I just want a label that has the width and height auto fitted on a Mac to not be cut off on Windows. Perhaps what would be useful is if there was an Autofit property for fields that would adjust the width and height of a field, instead of having to manually do it. Otherwise I can do it programmatically. Bob S On Sep 12, 2022, at 19:51 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode > wrote: This discussion has been very interesting to me. The team worked hard in v9 to deliver font management in a way that makes it easier than ever to deliver apps that meet user expectations and OS design specs on the platforms deployed to. Mac looks like Mac, Win looks like Win, all with one font setting. I used to have to work really hard with all sorts of workarounds to get that platform-savvy look, and now with the team's efforts with v9 it's a snap. Of course we all use the web, and I used to subscribe to CD-ROM publications that deliver textual content for multiple platforms. So I see the value in getting heading and body content in text-focused content-driven apps to look reasonably on-brand across platforms. But in all my native and web dev reading over the decades I don't think I've seen this much effort expended toward attempting to get near-perfect parity for text appearance across platforms (except for prepress, but that's another era). But I know you folks. You wouldn't put in this kind of effort if it wasn't useful. So help me understand: what are you working on where a user expects fine-grained font rendering consistency on multiple OSes? What do these apps do? Do your users switch OSes during a session, or work on Windows by day and Mac at night? How many also use Linux in that multi-OS workflow? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Sep 13 14:40:22 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2022 11:40:22 -0700 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: <45096339-7BFC-4AF4-9412-E2895F394B3F@iotecdigital.com> References: <45096339-7BFC-4AF4-9412-E2895F394B3F@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <159d6042-c467-2198-26e7-024d83eb6a51@fourthworld.com> Bob Sneidar wrote: > On Sep 12, 2022, at 19:51 , Richard Gaskin wrote: >> The team worked hard in v9 to deliver font management in a way that >> makes it easier than ever to deliver apps that meet user expectations >> and OS design specs on the platforms deployed to. Mac looks like >> Mac, Win looks like Win, all with one font setting. >>... >> So help me understand: what are you working on where a user expects >> fine-grained font rendering consistency on multiple OSes? What do >> these apps do? >> >> Do your users switch OSes during a session, or work on Windows by day >> and Mac at night? How many also use Linux in that multi-OS workflow? > > > For me it's simple. I want the same baseline and alignment on two > platforms I work with, MacOS and Windows, when using an embedded font. > ...I just want a label that has the width and height auto fitted on a > Mac to not be cut off on Windows. Thanks. I can see that, esp. since the HIGs for Mac and Win specify different font sizes. I've been including a little extra space to allow for that, and with alignment set well (left-aligned for full-row headers, right-aligned per HIG for form field labels) it's been working well enough. But this suggestion may help with some layouts: > Perhaps what would be useful is if there was an Autofit property for > fields that would adjust the width and height of a field, instead of > having to manually do it. Otherwise I can do it programmatically. It would be more convenient to have a property to set the width to the formattedWidth, but it raises another question: what do you do with the space saved? That is, if the layout it too tight to allow some extra space in a label field to accommodate the different HIG specs for each platform, when a field is automatically readjusted as proposed then wouldn't you also need to adjust surrounding controls to take advantage of the change? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Sep 13 15:02:44 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2022 19:02:44 +0000 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: <159d6042-c467-2198-26e7-024d83eb6a51@fourthworld.com> References: <45096339-7BFC-4AF4-9412-E2895F394B3F@iotecdigital.com> <159d6042-c467-2198-26e7-024d83eb6a51@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <694AF1EF-E50E-49D7-A1CD-D191E8902669@iotecdigital.com> I already leave a bit of air around my controls. Something I learned from a design guy years ago. Bob S On Sep 13, 2022, at 11:40 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode > wrote: > Perhaps what would be useful is if there was an Autofit property for > fields that would adjust the width and height of a field, instead of > having to manually do it. Otherwise I can do it programmatically. It would be more convenient to have a property to set the width to the formattedWidth, but it raises another question: what do you do with the space saved? That is, if the layout it too tight to allow some extra space in a label field to accommodate the different HIG specs for each platform, when a field is automatically readjusted as proposed then wouldn't you also need to adjust surrounding controls to take advantage of the change? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems From alex at tweedly.net Tue Sep 13 16:00:54 2022 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2022 21:00:54 +0100 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: References: <5849A832-9EC5-4815-91DB-82376B2A7C7A@optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: On 13/09/2022 03:51, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > So help me understand: what are you working on where a user expects > fine-grained font rendering consistency on multiple OSes? What do > these apps do? > One example that (almost) applied for me was where the target display is not an OS, and indeed the viewer doesn't think they are looking at a 'computer', e.g. an information display in a museum. I started doing something like this for a local organisation, but their funding never materialized. But while talking about it, they had no idea whether they'd use Macs or PCs or most likely both, and  they expected it to look the same regardless, and they wanted the content creator (who would typically only have one of the platforms to try it out on) to be able to get a good idea of how things would look. Alex. From cubist at aol.com Tue Sep 13 20:14:30 2022 From: cubist at aol.com (Quentin Long) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 00:14:30 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Standardize Font Appearance References: <659535550.1842732.1663114470856.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <659535550.1842732.1663114470856@mail.yahoo.com> sez Richard Gaskin: > So help me understand: what are you working on where a user expects > fine-grained font rendering consistency on multiple OSes? What do these > apps do?> > Do your users switch OSes during a session, or work on Windows by day > and Mac at night?  How many also use Linux in that multi-OS workflow? For me, it was mostly a matter of two questions. First: Wouldn't it be nice *if* we could somehow do stuff with fonts and just have them *be* identical cross-platform? My answer: Yes, that *is* technically possible— Second: Exactly how big of a hassle *would* it be to Just Have Fonts Identical Cross-Platform? My answer: —but good god, it's *so* much of a fucking PITA that I can't imagine why anyone would *bother*. I'm rather an odd duck, in that I don't write code for a living; I don't even have any financial interests which are dependent on my being able to whip up code on schedule/deadline. So I suspect I may have summat more freedom to fart around and experiment than do the *real* code jockeys hereabouts. As well, the only user *I* have to worry about is *me*, which renders lots of issues, er, *non*-issues, as far as I'm concerned. "Bewitched" + "Charlie's Angels" - Charlie = "At Arm's Length"Read the webcomic at [ http://www.atarmslength.net ]!If you like "At Arm's Length", support it at [ http://www.patreon.com/DarkwingDude ]. From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Tue Sep 13 22:19:12 2022 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 12:19:12 +1000 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance Message-ID: I agree Richard text management is a lot better than it used to be but problems remain. Text strings on Windows standalones used to be longer than on Mac. It was a painful process to find a label which had been clipped in Windows, fix it in the Mac IDE, compile, copy to a Windows box, only to find another label that hadn’t been supplied with enough padding so back the drawing board. If you were developing on Windows you didn’t see this problem, since Mac strings were shorter. I am pretty sure this problem has gone away, strings rendered in a TrueType font on Mac and Windows now have the same length. [Was this really a fix in LC, or a change in the Windows 10 font engine? If the LC team did it I am lost in admiration, a fantastic piece of work! I thought LC just left it to the operating system to draw the text.] On Linux however the problem remains, strings can be longer or shorter than on the other platforms. Vertical placement is the remaining problem: strings in Windows typically appear 2 or 3 pixels below the Mac equivalent. Mostly this is a trivial problem. But it can cause havoc if your interface has closely packed items. I offer the following fable as a demonstration. I am working on a Mac, designing an app for deployment on Mac and Windows. I select a stock-standard label object, drawn as a box with a border thickness 1 pixel. If I leave the default font to (Message) then the fonts used will be different on the two platforms, and I don’t want that. I have a fondness for smallish 12pt labels and Times New Roman font. Shouldn’t be a problem since Times New Roman exists on Windows (not on Linux of course). They won’t look *exactly* the same because the device resolutions and antaliasing algorithms are different etc, but only a perfectionist would care, and I know the text won’t be clipped because the lengths are same (not on Linux of course, even if I instal Time New Roman) Hmm, the text, which was nicely vertically centered in its box, has moved up a bit, I wonder why? Easily fixed, just set the top margin to 9, yes that is just right. Now I need a text field next to my label, with the baseline of the text aligned with the label text. But the font for this field has to be different, say Arial 36pt (Arial is course is installed on Windows. Not on Linux of course.). Gee, the text which was pretty much aligned is now way out of kilter. There is no IDE command to align text, but easily fixed, just move the field up a bit. Finally I want to draw a red line just under the two text strings, at the point where LC would draw text baselines. You can see screen grabs of the resulting Mac and Windows standalones at https://www.dropbox.com/s/v2hzwe159ep6nep/My%20beautiful%20app%20on%20Mac.png?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/wr2limdozwob9v7/My%20beautiful%20app%20on%20Windows.png?dl=0 Or you can read the reviews from the influential Good Design Now!!!!! magazine Mac review: Everything looks fine. Simple, boring interface. -1 for the retro box and -1 for mixing fonts. 3 stars. Windows review: Wow! Quirky unbalanced placing of the label in its box. Fashionable haphazard alignment of text. And an ultramodern red line slashing through the text. An (unintended) brilliancy. 5 stars. (But if that red line had been a more substantial object, text would have been clipped, 0 stars.) Neville From bobcole at earthlink.net Wed Sep 14 09:50:01 2022 From: bobcole at earthlink.net (Bob Cole) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 09:50:01 -0400 Subject: System Time Zone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3BBFBB65-523B-457D-8555-D63F161443BE@earthlink.net> Just for the sake of completeness, there is a way to get the time zone with AppleScript but it requires Administrator Privileges. The MacOS pops up a request to allow the “do as AppleScript” script to access the systemsetup function. That manual step will interfere with the flow of the program. Create a field “Statements” with this AppleScript: do shell script "/usr/sbin/systemsetup -gettimezone" with administrator privileges and put the following code in the script of a button: on mouseUp do field "Statements" as "AppleScript" put the result into tResult set the itemDelimiter to space delete word 1 to 2 in tResult delete the last char of tResult put tResult into message box end request Tested in two time zones with these results: America/Chicago America/New_York Bob > It's the, "America/Los_Angeles" bit I am trying to find a way to grok. From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Sep 14 11:09:00 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 17:09:00 +0200 Subject: System Time Zone In-Reply-To: <3BBFBB65-523B-457D-8555-D63F161443BE@earthlink.net> References: <3BBFBB65-523B-457D-8555-D63F161443BE@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <0A7567C7-6EF4-449A-B002-5B402377583F@m-r-d.de> Does your app has preferences the user can enter? Why not allow him to enter also the sudo password? You could then use that to execute the following shell command: put shell("echo | sudo -S /usr/sbin/systemsetup -gettimezone") replace with the password in preferences. No need to use Applescript. Regards, Matthias > Am 14.09.2022 um 15:50 schrieb Bob Cole via use-livecode : > > Just for the sake of completeness, there is a way to get the time zone with AppleScript but it requires Administrator Privileges. The MacOS pops up a request to allow the “do as AppleScript” script to access the systemsetup function. That manual step will interfere with the flow of the program. > > Create a field “Statements” with this AppleScript: > > do shell script "/usr/sbin/systemsetup -gettimezone" with administrator privileges > > and put the following code in the script of a button: > > on mouseUp > do field "Statements" as "AppleScript" > put the result into tResult > set the itemDelimiter to space > delete word 1 to 2 in tResult > delete the last char of tResult > put tResult into message box > end request > > Tested in two time zones with these results: > America/Chicago > America/New_York > > Bob > >> It's the, "America/Los_Angeles" bit I am trying to find a way to grok. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Sep 14 11:21:16 2022 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 18:21:16 +0300 Subject: System Time Zone In-Reply-To: <0A7567C7-6EF4-449A-B002-5B402377583F@m-r-d.de> References: <3BBFBB65-523B-457D-8555-D63F161443BE@earthlink.net> <0A7567C7-6EF4-449A-B002-5B402377583F@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <38deebe3-492f-7377-2f52-2c9b16411820@gmail.com> That seems a bit unnecessary as 'internet date' produces a format that includes the GMT offset. So when I write this in the messageBox:  put the internet date I get: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 18:19:18 +0300 and, obviously, from the +0300 it is dead easy to work out my system time zone. Love, Richmond. On 14.09.22 18:09, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > Does your app has preferences the user can enter? Why not allow him to enter also the sudo password? > You could then use that to execute the following shell command: > > put shell("echo | sudo -S /usr/sbin/systemsetup -gettimezone") > > replace with the password in preferences. No need to use Applescript. > > Regards, > Matthias > > > >> Am 14.09.2022 um 15:50 schrieb Bob Cole via use-livecode : >> >> Just for the sake of completeness, there is a way to get the time zone with AppleScript but it requires Administrator Privileges. The MacOS pops up a request to allow the do as AppleScript script to access the systemsetup function. That manual step will interfere with the flow of the program. >> >> Create a field Statements with this AppleScript: >> >> do shell script "/usr/sbin/systemsetup -gettimezone" with administrator privileges >> >> and put the following code in the script of a button: >> >> on mouseUp >> do field "Statements" as "AppleScript" >> put the result into tResult >> set the itemDelimiter to space >> delete word 1 to 2 in tResult >> delete the last char of tResult >> put tResult into message box >> end request >> >> Tested in two time zones with these results: >> America/Chicago >> America/New_York >> >> Bob >> >>> It's the, "America/Los_Angeles" bit I am trying to find a way to grok. >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Sep 14 11:35:53 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 15:35:53 +0000 Subject: System Time Zone In-Reply-To: <38deebe3-492f-7377-2f52-2c9b16411820@gmail.com> References: <3BBFBB65-523B-457D-8555-D63F161443BE@earthlink.net> <0A7567C7-6EF4-449A-B002-5B402377583F@m-r-d.de> <38deebe3-492f-7377-2f52-2c9b16411820@gmail.com> Message-ID: It's not dead easy from the perspective of iCalendar syntax. Zones are defined by text strings. I will need a lookup table for that. Bob S On Sep 14, 2022, at 08:21 , Richmond via use-livecode > wrote: That seems a bit unnecessary as 'internet date' produces a format that includes the GMT offset. So when I write this in the messageBox: put the internet date I get: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 18:19:18 +0300 and, obviously, from the +0300 it is dead easy to work out my system time zone. Love, Richmond. From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Sep 14 11:38:33 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 17:38:33 +0200 Subject: System Time Zone In-Reply-To: <38deebe3-492f-7377-2f52-2c9b16411820@gmail.com> References: <3BBFBB65-523B-457D-8555-D63F161443BE@earthlink.net> <0A7567C7-6EF4-449A-B002-5B402377583F@m-r-d.de> <38deebe3-492f-7377-2f52-2c9b16411820@gmail.com> Message-ID: The original poster does not want to have the offset, but the time zone country/city and he already had a solution with apple script. I provided a solution just with the shell function. > Am 14.09.2022 um 17:21 schrieb Richmond via use-livecode : > > That seems a bit unnecessary as 'internet date' produces a format that includes the GMT offset. > > So when I write this in the messageBox: put the internet date > > I get: > > Wed, 14 Sep 2022 18:19:18 +0300 > > and, obviously, from the +0300 it is dead easy to work out > > my system time zone. > > Love, Richmond. > > > > > On 14.09.22 18:09, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: >> Does your app has preferences the user can enter? Why not allow him to enter also the sudo password? >> You could then use that to execute the following shell command: >> >> put shell("echo | sudo -S /usr/sbin/systemsetup -gettimezone") >> >> replace with the password in preferences. No need to use Applescript. >> >> Regards, >> Matthias >> >> >> >>> Am 14.09.2022 um 15:50 schrieb Bob Cole via use-livecode : >>> >>> Just for the sake of completeness, there is a way to get the time zone with AppleScript but it requires Administrator Privileges. The MacOS pops up a request to allow the “do as AppleScript” script to access the systemsetup function. That manual step will interfere with the flow of the program. >>> >>> Create a field “Statements” with this AppleScript: >>> >>> do shell script "/usr/sbin/systemsetup -gettimezone" with administrator privileges >>> >>> and put the following code in the script of a button: >>> >>> on mouseUp >>> do field "Statements" as "AppleScript" >>> put the result into tResult >>> set the itemDelimiter to space >>> delete word 1 to 2 in tResult >>> delete the last char of tResult >>> put tResult into message box >>> end request >>> >>> Tested in two time zones with these results: >>> America/Chicago >>> America/New_York >>> >>> Bob >>> >>>> It's the, "America/Los_Angeles" bit I am trying to find a way to grok. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Sep 14 11:40:01 2022 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 18:40:01 +0300 Subject: System Time Zone In-Reply-To: References: <3BBFBB65-523B-457D-8555-D63F161443BE@earthlink.net> <0A7567C7-6EF4-449A-B002-5B402377583F@m-r-d.de> <38deebe3-492f-7377-2f52-2c9b16411820@gmail.com> Message-ID: <129338b5-cd95-4cf9-00d1-7a9812a5f9d9@gmail.com> Ah: sorry, I had no idea (having come late to the party) that you were wanting to interact with iCal. That does look like a bit of a headache: https://icalendar.org/iCalendar-RFC-5545/3-2-19-time-zone-identifier.html Richmond. On 14.09.22 18:35, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > It's not dead easy from the perspective of iCalendar syntax. Zones are defined by text strings. I will need a lookup table for that. > > Bob S > > > On Sep 14, 2022, at 08:21 , Richmond via use-livecode > wrote: > > That seems a bit unnecessary as 'internet date' produces a format that includes the GMT offset. > > So when I write this in the messageBox: put the internet date > > I get: > > Wed, 14 Sep 2022 18:19:18 +0300 > > and, obviously, from the +0300 it is dead easy to work out > > my system time zone. > > Love, Richmond. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Sep 14 11:59:00 2022 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 18:59:00 +0300 Subject: System Time Zone In-Reply-To: References: <3BBFBB65-523B-457D-8555-D63F161443BE@earthlink.net> <0A7567C7-6EF4-449A-B002-5B402377583F@m-r-d.de> <38deebe3-492f-7377-2f52-2c9b16411820@gmail.com> Message-ID: I am simply trying to present a solution that works: 1. 100% in LiveCode. 2. 100% cross-platform. Richmond. On 14.09.22 18:38, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > The original poster does not want to have the offset, but the time zone country/city and he already had a solution with apple script. > I provided a solution just with the shell function. > > >> Am 14.09.2022 um 17:21 schrieb Richmond via use-livecode : >> >> That seems a bit unnecessary as 'internet date' produces a format that includes the GMT offset. >> >> So when I write this in the messageBox: put the internet date >> >> I get: >> >> Wed, 14 Sep 2022 18:19:18 +0300 >> >> and, obviously, from the +0300 it is dead easy to work out >> >> my system time zone. >> >> Love, Richmond. >> >> >> >> >> On 14.09.22 18:09, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: >>> Does your app has preferences the user can enter? Why not allow him to enter also the sudo password? >>> You could then use that to execute the following shell command: >>> >>> put shell("echo | sudo -S /usr/sbin/systemsetup -gettimezone") >>> >>> replace with the password in preferences. No need to use Applescript. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Matthias >>> >>> >>> >>>> Am 14.09.2022 um 15:50 schrieb Bob Cole via use-livecode : >>>> >>>> Just for the sake of completeness, there is a way to get the time zone with AppleScript but it requires Administrator Privileges. The MacOS pops up a request to allow the do as AppleScript script to access the systemsetup function. That manual step will interfere with the flow of the program. >>>> >>>> Create a field Statements with this AppleScript: >>>> >>>> do shell script "/usr/sbin/systemsetup -gettimezone" with administrator privileges >>>> >>>> and put the following code in the script of a button: >>>> >>>> on mouseUp >>>> do field "Statements" as "AppleScript" >>>> put the result into tResult >>>> set the itemDelimiter to space >>>> delete word 1 to 2 in tResult >>>> delete the last char of tResult >>>> put tResult into message box >>>> end request >>>> >>>> Tested in two time zones with these results: >>>> America/Chicago >>>> America/New_York >>>> >>>> Bob >>>> >>>>> It's the, "America/Los_Angeles" bit I am trying to find a way to grok. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Sep 14 12:01:40 2022 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 19:01:40 +0300 Subject: System Time Zone In-Reply-To: References: <3BBFBB65-523B-457D-8555-D63F161443BE@earthlink.net> <0A7567C7-6EF4-449A-B002-5B402377583F@m-r-d.de> <38deebe3-492f-7377-2f52-2c9b16411820@gmail.com> Message-ID: From an offset from GMT it is easy enough with this: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/88/World_Time_Zones_Map.png to run up a listField with timezones and their countries as a sort of ad-hoc lookup table. On 14.09.22 18:38, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > The original poster does not want to have the offset, but the time zone country/city and he already had a solution with apple script. > I provided a solution just with the shell function. > > >> Am 14.09.2022 um 17:21 schrieb Richmond via use-livecode : >> >> That seems a bit unnecessary as 'internet date' produces a format that includes the GMT offset. >> >> So when I write this in the messageBox: put the internet date >> >> I get: >> >> Wed, 14 Sep 2022 18:19:18 +0300 >> >> and, obviously, from the +0300 it is dead easy to work out >> >> my system time zone. >> >> Love, Richmond. >> >> >> >> >> On 14.09.22 18:09, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: >>> Does your app has preferences the user can enter? Why not allow him to enter also the sudo password? >>> You could then use that to execute the following shell command: >>> >>> put shell("echo | sudo -S /usr/sbin/systemsetup -gettimezone") >>> >>> replace with the password in preferences. No need to use Applescript. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Matthias >>> >>> >>> >>>> Am 14.09.2022 um 15:50 schrieb Bob Cole via use-livecode : >>>> >>>> Just for the sake of completeness, there is a way to get the time zone with AppleScript but it requires Administrator Privileges. The MacOS pops up a request to allow the do as AppleScript script to access the systemsetup function. That manual step will interfere with the flow of the program. >>>> >>>> Create a field Statements with this AppleScript: >>>> >>>> do shell script "/usr/sbin/systemsetup -gettimezone" with administrator privileges >>>> >>>> and put the following code in the script of a button: >>>> >>>> on mouseUp >>>> do field "Statements" as "AppleScript" >>>> put the result into tResult >>>> set the itemDelimiter to space >>>> delete word 1 to 2 in tResult >>>> delete the last char of tResult >>>> put tResult into message box >>>> end request >>>> >>>> Tested in two time zones with these results: >>>> America/Chicago >>>> America/New_York >>>> >>>> Bob >>>> >>>>> It's the, "America/Los_Angeles" bit I am trying to find a way to grok. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Sep 14 12:43:22 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 11:43:22 -0500 Subject: System Time Zone In-Reply-To: References: <3BBFBB65-523B-457D-8555-D63F161443BE@earthlink.net> <0A7567C7-6EF4-449A-B002-5B402377583F@m-r-d.de> <38deebe3-492f-7377-2f52-2c9b16411820@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1833ce23810.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> That was my first thought too and I (erroneously) suggested the internet "time", which should have been "date". I found a ready-made lookup list and began experimenting. No go. You have to know whether the area is on daylight savings time because the offset changes. You also need to know the location because cities in the same zone vary, and Apple's format requires a specific city location reference, so that would be a second lookup. And the OP doesn't want a lookup list anyway. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On September 14, 2022 11:03:40 AM Richmond via use-livecode wrote: > From an offset from GMT it is easy enough with this: > > https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/88/World_Time_Zones_Map.png > > to run up a listField with timezones and their countries as a sort of > ad-hoc lookup table. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Sep 14 13:20:39 2022 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 20:20:39 +0300 Subject: System Time Zone In-Reply-To: References: <3BBFBB65-523B-457D-8555-D63F161443BE@earthlink.net> <0A7567C7-6EF4-449A-B002-5B402377583F@m-r-d.de> <38deebe3-492f-7377-2f52-2c9b16411820@gmail.com> Message-ID: https://use-livecode.runrev.narkive.com/PhNgjt9Q/time-problems-with-daylight-saving On 14.09.22 19:01, Richmond wrote: > From an offset from GMT it is easy enough with this: > > https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/88/World_Time_Zones_Map.png > > > to run up a listField with timezones and their countries as a sort of > ad-hoc lookup table. > > On 14.09.22 18:38, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: >> The original poster does not want to have the offset, but the time >> zone country/city and he already had a solution with apple script. >> I provided a solution just with the shell function. >> >> >>> Am 14.09.2022 um 17:21 schrieb Richmond via use-livecode >>> : >>> >>> That seems a bit unnecessary as 'internet date' produces a format >>> that includes the GMT offset. >>> >>> So when I write this in the messageBox:  put the internet date >>> >>> I get: >>> >>> Wed, 14 Sep 2022 18:19:18 +0300 >>> >>> and, obviously, from the +0300 it is dead easy to work out >>> >>> my system time zone. >>> >>> Love, Richmond. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 14.09.22 18:09, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: >>>> Does your app has preferences the user can enter? Why not allow him >>>> to enter also the sudo password? >>>> You could then use that to execute the following shell command: >>>> >>>> put shell("echo | sudo -S /usr/sbin/systemsetup >>>> -gettimezone") >>>> >>>> replace with the password in preferences. No need to use >>>> Applescript. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Matthias >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Am 14.09.2022 um 15:50 schrieb Bob Cole via use-livecode >>>>> : >>>>> >>>>> Just for the sake of completeness, there is a way to get the time >>>>> zone with AppleScript but it requires Administrator Privileges. >>>>> The MacOS pops up a request to allow the do as AppleScript >>>>> script to access the systemsetup function. That manual step will >>>>> interfere with the flow of the program. >>>>> >>>>> Create a field Statements with this AppleScript: >>>>> >>>>> do shell script "/usr/sbin/systemsetup -gettimezone" with >>>>> administrator privileges >>>>> >>>>> and put the following code in the script of a button: >>>>> >>>>> on mouseUp >>>>>    do field "Statements" as "AppleScript" >>>>>    put the result into tResult >>>>>    set the itemDelimiter to space >>>>>    delete word 1 to 2 in tResult >>>>>    delete the last char of tResult >>>>>    put tResult into message box >>>>> end request >>>>> >>>>> Tested in two time zones with these results: >>>>> America/Chicago >>>>> America/New_York >>>>> >>>>> Bob >>>>> >>>>>> It's the, "America/Los_Angeles" bit I am trying to find a way to >>>>>> grok. >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Sep 14 13:42:06 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 10:42:06 -0700 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Neville wrote: > You can see screen grabs of the resulting Mac and Windows standalones > at > https://www.dropbox.com/s/v2hzwe159ep6nep/My%20beautiful%20app%20on%20Mac.png?dl=0 > > https://www.dropbox.com/s/wr2limdozwob9v7/My%20beautiful%20app%20on%20Windows.png?dl=0 Thank you for the screen shots. If a picture is normally worth a thousand words, in discussions of visual details they're worth a million. :) I did a quick search for "font baseline difference mac windows" on DuckDuckGo and found several discussions across a great many tools around this issue of vertical drift, e.g.: https://community.adobe.com/t5/adobe-xd-discussions/absolutely-different-font-rendering-on-mac-and-windows/m-p/11070914 https://stackoverflow.com/questions/11726442/font-rendering-line-height-issue-on-mac-pc-outside-of-element https://community.adobe.com/t5/adobe-xd-discussions/google-font-and-adobe-font-line-height-discrepancies/m-p/10941118#M24073 The last two may be especially interesting, as commenters suggest using Google fonts for common faces sometimes yield better results than fonts from other foundries, with apparently more detail in the font code to account for fractional ascenders/descenders. A couple of suggestions also point to software tools like FontForg or the web app Transfonter.org to make adjustments to the font metrics. And of course with web devs we see some conditional CSS to account for the difference, similar to what you're doing with LC margin properties. It would be helpful to get Mark Waddingham's view on this, since of course he knows the interaction between LC's rendering engine and the underlying text renderers in the OS better than anyone. But given how widespread the issue is across some of the most heavily-financed apps in the world (Microsoft, Adobe, web browsers), my hunch aligns with the comments in those discussions linked to above: variances in both OS renderers and in the code of the font files themselves would make it perhaps cost-prohibitive to attempt to address all possible combinations. If you find that using an embedded font from Google solves it, or at least reduces it, please let us know. Beyond that, where fine-tuning is needed for non-HIG GUIs it may be that carefully-crafted margin adjustments are as good as we get. Small comfort, but such tediousness would still leave us no worse off than pro designers using Adobe tools or web browsers. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From jbv at souslelogo.com Wed Sep 14 14:58:00 2022 From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 14:58:00 -0400 Subject: [semi-OT] PDF on the fly Message-ID: Hi list, I have a web site on which end users can select several options, and then click a button "show PDF", and a pdf containing various contents from a remote DB with a sophisticated layout is built server side in a second and automatically downloaded. The link of the button is something like : https://domain.com/showPDF.lc?a=parameters and the script sets the header of the pdf file as follows : put header "Content-Type: application/pdf" put header "Content-Length: " & number of chars of myPDF put header "Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=" "e& myFileName "e This has been working fine for years, and still works on Chrome and FF, but apparently the latest versions of Safari don't accept it: the file is built and the download starts but quickly stalls and that's it. And no error message van be found in the console. As an alternative solution, I've been thinking of building the pdf server side and writing it in a temporary folder, and then on the web page displaying a prompt with a button containing the actual url of the file. But that's not very elegant IMHO. What other options do I have ? Thank you in advance. Best, jbv From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Wed Sep 14 15:14:49 2022 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 15:14:49 -0400 Subject: [semi-OT] PDF on the fly In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000001d8c86e$4598cff0$d0ca6fd0$@net> How fortuitous... I just ran into this while doing JavaScript xhttp network requests to LC Server on Safari only. I just updated from LC Server 9.5.1. to 9.6.6. I saw it in Safari in iOS. Chrome in iOS worked OK. I went back to 9.5.1 and everything started working again in Safari. Do we possibly have the same problem? This might not be OT at all. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of jbv via use-livecode Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2022 2:58 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: jbv at souslelogo.com Subject: [semi-OT] PDF on the fly Hi list, I have a web site on which end users can select several options, and then click a button "show PDF", and a pdf containing various contents from a remote DB with a sophisticated layout is built server side in a second and automatically downloaded. The link of the button is something like : https://domain.com/showPDF.lc?a=parameters and the script sets the header of the pdf file as follows : put header "Content-Type: application/pdf" put header "Content-Length: " & number of chars of myPDF put header "Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=" "e& myFileName "e This has been working fine for years, and still works on Chrome and FF, but apparently the latest versions of Safari don't accept it: the file is built and the download starts but quickly stalls and that's it. And no error message van be found in the console. As an alternative solution, I've been thinking of building the pdf server side and writing it in a temporary folder, and then on the web page displaying a prompt with a button containing the actual url of the file. But that's not very elegant IMHO. What other options do I have ? Thank you in advance. Best, jbv _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Sep 14 15:22:08 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 21:22:08 +0200 Subject: [semi-OT] PDF on the fly In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2B42490C-6D53-4AE8-9981-48457436D78F@m-r-d.de> I just checked here with a script i am using for years to provide the download of a csv file and it still works with Version 15.6 (17613.3.9.1.5). Is that the newest version? This is my script: put header "Content-Type: application/text" put header "Content-Length:" & the number of chars of tFileContent put new header "Content-Disposition: attachment; FileName=" & tFileName put URL("file:" & tFileContent) The only difference i see is, that i have put new header instead of put header > Am 14.09.2022 um 20:58 schrieb jbv via use-livecode : > > Hi list, > > I have a web site on which end users can select several options, > and then click a button "show PDF", and a pdf containing various > contents from a remote DB with a sophisticated layout is built > server side in a second and automatically downloaded. > > The link of the button is something like : > https://domain.com/showPDF.lc?a=parameters > and the script sets the header of the pdf file as follows : > put header "Content-Type: application/pdf" > put header "Content-Length: " & number of chars of myPDF > put header "Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=" "e& myFileName "e > > This has been working fine for years, and still works on Chrome > and FF, but apparently the latest versions of Safari don't accept it: > the file is built and the download starts but quickly stalls and that's it. > And no error message van be found in the console. > > As an alternative solution, I've been thinking of building the pdf server side > and writing it in a temporary folder, and then on the web page displaying a > prompt with a button containing the actual url of the file. But that's not > very elegant IMHO. > > What other options do I have ? > Thank you in advance. > > Best, > jbv > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Sep 14 15:24:12 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 21:24:12 +0200 Subject: [semi-OT] PDF on the fly In-Reply-To: <2B42490C-6D53-4AE8-9981-48457436D78F@m-r-d.de> References: <2B42490C-6D53-4AE8-9981-48457436D78F@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <0164FA5A-AF37-4D4E-B74D-1C8062B0A083@m-r-d.de> I am running 9.6.5 on the server where i tested the script. > Am 14.09.2022 um 21:22 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode : > > I just checked here with a script i am using for years to provide the download of a csv file and it still works with Version 15.6 (17613.3.9.1.5). > Is that the newest version? > > This is my script: > > put header "Content-Type: application/text" > put header "Content-Length:" & the number of chars of tFileContent > put new header "Content-Disposition: attachment; FileName=" & tFileName > put URL("file:" & tFileContent) > > The only difference i see is, that i have put new header instead of put header > > > > > > >> Am 14.09.2022 um 20:58 schrieb jbv via use-livecode : >> >> Hi list, >> >> I have a web site on which end users can select several options, >> and then click a button "show PDF", and a pdf containing various >> contents from a remote DB with a sophisticated layout is built >> server side in a second and automatically downloaded. >> >> The link of the button is something like : >> https://domain.com/showPDF.lc?a=parameters >> and the script sets the header of the pdf file as follows : >> put header "Content-Type: application/pdf" >> put header "Content-Length: " & number of chars of myPDF >> put header "Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=" "e& myFileName "e >> >> This has been working fine for years, and still works on Chrome >> and FF, but apparently the latest versions of Safari don't accept it: >> the file is built and the download starts but quickly stalls and that's it. >> And no error message van be found in the console. >> >> As an alternative solution, I've been thinking of building the pdf server side >> and writing it in a temporary folder, and then on the web page displaying a >> prompt with a button containing the actual url of the file. But that's not >> very elegant IMHO. >> >> What other options do I have ? >> Thank you in advance. >> >> Best, >> jbv >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jbv at souslelogo.com Wed Sep 14 16:44:31 2022 From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 16:44:31 -0400 Subject: [semi-OT] PDF on the fly In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi guys, Thank you for your answers. No matter what I try, the problem remains the same on Safari. My LC script runs on my on-rev account, and it uses LC 9.6. Could this really be the problem ? Best, jbv From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Sep 14 17:00:33 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 23:00:33 +0200 Subject: [semi-OT] PDF on the fly In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8FB37142-B986-4F60-AF48-671E3A96B270@m-r-d.de> I just tested on quartz.on-rev.com with LC Server 9.6.0. I've created a textfile with a size of 1mb. tested with this script and it worked. I even tested with put header instead of put new header. Which version of Safari do you have? > Am 14.09.2022 um 22:44 schrieb jbv via use-livecode : > > Hi guys, > > Thank you for your answers. > No matter what I try, the problem remains the same on Safari. > My LC script runs on my on-rev account, and it uses LC 9.6. > Could this really be the problem ? > > Best, > jbv > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Sep 14 17:10:43 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 21:10:43 +0000 Subject: System Time Zone In-Reply-To: <1833ce23810.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <3BBFBB65-523B-457D-8555-D63F161443BE@earthlink.net> <0A7567C7-6EF4-449A-B002-5B402377583F@m-r-d.de> <38deebe3-492f-7377-2f52-2c9b16411820@gmail.com> <1833ce23810.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <032D8660-A758-45B1-A272-3F00466A78E4@iotecdigital.com> Well, IDEALLY I would like a way that does not involve a lookup list, but I do not think that is possible. I already downloaded an official list of time zones in the proper format, and their standard and savings time offsets. That should be close enough. Another thing I can do is in a settings pane, offer up a list of time zones and have the user select the correct one before iCalendar support is enabled. Easy enough. Bob S On Sep 14, 2022, at 09:43 , J. Landman Gay via use-livecode > wrote: That was my first thought too and I (erroneously) suggested the internet "time", which should have been "date". I found a ready-made lookup list and began experimenting. No go. You have to know whether the area is on daylight savings time because the offset changes. You also need to know the location because cities in the same zone vary, and Apple's format requires a specific city location reference, so that would be a second lookup. And the OP doesn't want a lookup list anyway. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jbv at souslelogo.com Thu Sep 15 05:36:06 2022 From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2022 05:36:06 -0400 Subject: [semi-OT] PDF on the fly In-Reply-To: <8FB37142-B986-4F60-AF48-671E3A96B270@m-r-d.de> References: <8FB37142-B986-4F60-AF48-671E3A96B270@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: I am using Safari 15.6 (15613.3.9.1.7, 15613) But I finally found the origin of the problem : put header "Content-Length: " & number of chars of myPDF After removing that line from the header, files download and display fine in Safari, as in other browsers. So far I have no rational explanation though. Best, jbv Le 2022-09-14 17:00, matthias rebbe via use-livecode a crit : > I just tested on quartz.on-rev.com with LC > Server 9.6.0. > > I've created a textfile with a size of 1mb. > > tested with this script and it worked. I even tested with put header > instead of put new header. > put header "Content-Type: application/text" > put new header "Content-Disposition: attachment; FileName=" & > "justsomeText.txt" > put URL("binfile:" & "justsomeText.txt") > ?> > > Which version of Safari do you have? > > > >> Am 14.09.2022 um 22:44 schrieb jbv via use-livecode >> : >> >> Hi guys, >> >> Thank you for your answers. >> No matter what I try, the problem remains the same on Safari. >> My LC script runs on my on-rev account, and it uses LC 9.6. >> Could this really be the problem ? >> >> Best, >> jbv >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Thu Sep 15 07:07:04 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2022 13:07:04 +0200 Subject: [semi-OT] PDF on the fly In-Reply-To: References: <8FB37142-B986-4F60-AF48-671E3A96B270@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: That is interesting. I tried here with content-length on on-rev and it works here with Version 15.6 (17613.3.9.1.5) of Safari. At least you've found a solution... > Am 15.09.2022 um 11:36 schrieb jbv via use-livecode : > > I am using Safari 15.6 (15613.3.9.1.7, 15613) > > But I finally found the origin of the problem : > put header "Content-Length: " & number of chars of myPDF > > After removing that line from the header, files download and > display fine in Safari, as in other browsers. > So far I have no rational explanation though. > > Best, > jbv > > Le 2022-09-14 17:00, matthias rebbe via use-livecode a écrit : >> I just tested on quartz.on-rev.com with LC >> Server 9.6.0. >> I've created a textfile with a size of 1mb. >> tested with this script and it worked. I even tested with put header >> instead of put new header. >> > put header "Content-Type: application/text" >> put new header "Content-Disposition: attachment; FileName=" & "justsomeText.txt" >> put URL("binfile:" & "justsomeText.txt") >> ?> >> Which version of Safari do you have? >>> Am 14.09.2022 um 22:44 schrieb jbv via use-livecode : >>> Hi guys, >>> Thank you for your answers. >>> No matter what I try, the problem remains the same on Safari. >>> My LC script runs on my on-rev account, and it uses LC 9.6. >>> Could this really be the problem ? >>> Best, >>> jbv >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu Sep 15 10:44:51 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2022 10:44:51 -0400 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <6AF5BE8C-DC3F-4EA9-8490-BA6DDDD7DD7E@m-r-d.de> <002d01d8c477$3f7e1710$be7a4530$@net> <000d01d8c53c$f3cc6d00$db654700$@net> Message-ID: What's NavRAD? It's a better version of LiveCode's NavBar widget. Why "RAD"? Cos Ralph A DiMola said so, since he added the first two nifty updates to it: * an autoHilite boolean, so you can intercept clicks before the selected icon changes instead of after, and * icon zoom Now it's also got margins. https://github.com/macMikey/LC-NavRad From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Thu Sep 15 11:27:01 2022 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2022 11:27:01 -0400 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <6AF5BE8C-DC3F-4EA9-8490-BA6DDDD7DD7E@m-r-d.de> <002d01d8c477$3f7e1710$be7a4530$@net> <000d01d8c53c$f3cc6d00$db654700$@net> Message-ID: <001a01d8c917$9d2e7d10$d78b7730$@net> Also another new feature is the Icon Fill property. If enabled: 1)If there is no label the icon is enlarged slightly and centered vertically 2) In the PI the label can be deleted without the "New Item" inserted into the label. I did this because among others the social media icons don't need labels. All new features are fully documented. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2022 10:45 AM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Mike Kerner Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual What's NavRAD? It's a better version of LiveCode's NavBar widget. Why "RAD"? Cos Ralph A DiMola said so, since he added the first two nifty updates to it: * an autoHilite boolean, so you can intercept clicks before the selected icon changes instead of after, and * icon zoom Now it's also got margins. https://github.com/macMikey/LC-NavRad _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Thu Sep 15 11:37:31 2022 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2022 11:37:31 -0400 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <6AF5BE8C-DC3F-4EA9-8490-BA6DDDD7DD7E@m-r-d.de> <002d01d8c477$3f7e1710$be7a4530$@net> <000d01d8c53c$f3cc6d00$db654700$@net> Message-ID: <001b01d8c919$14886c80$3d994580$@net> Docs aside... I still think that widgets and lcb is one of best additions to LC. Community collaboration like this will make for better documentation and more new/improved widgets. A robust library of widgets can only help LC to penetrate the market. If only we had these when I started... Shout out to Mike K. for all the help! Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net From alex at tweedly.net Thu Sep 15 18:11:17 2022 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2022 23:11:17 +0100 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <6AF5BE8C-DC3F-4EA9-8490-BA6DDDD7DD7E@m-r-d.de> <002d01d8c477$3f7e1710$be7a4530$@net> <000d01d8c53c$f3cc6d00$db654700$@net> Message-ID: On 15/09/2022 15:44, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > What's NavRAD? It's a better version of LiveCode's NavBar widget. > Why "RAD"? Cos Ralph A DiMola said so, since he added the first two nifty > updates to it: I see the code has an outdated copyright statement, which would (I think) currently mean that any app using it would (potentially) become open-source (GPL). If that;s not the intent, maybe it could be updated ? Currently it says >   Copyright (C) 2015-2022 LiveCode Ltd.icon > >   This file is part of LiveCode. > >   LiveCode is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it > under >   the terms of the GNU General Public License v3 as published by the Free >   Software Foundation. > >   LiveCode is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but > WITHOUT ANY >   WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or >   FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the GNU General Public License >   for more details. > >   You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License >   along with LiveCode.  If not see .  */ Alex. > Copyright (C) 2015-2022 LiveCode Ltd.icon > > > > This file is part of LiveCode. > > > > LiveCode is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it > under > > the terms of the GNU General Public License v3 as published by the Free > > Software Foundation. > > > > LiveCode is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but > WITHOUT ANY > > WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or > > FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the GNU General Public License > > for more details. > > > > You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License > > along with LiveCode. If not see . */ > > From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Sep 15 20:19:36 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2022 19:19:36 -0500 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <6AF5BE8C-DC3F-4EA9-8490-BA6DDDD7DD7E@m-r-d.de> <002d01d8c477$3f7e1710$be7a4530$@net> <000d01d8c53c$f3cc6d00$db654700$@net> Message-ID: <18343aa41d8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Legally the only date that matters is the date of creation. Almost everyone adds the current date as well, and I keep trying to talk my clients out of it but they won't listen. Then I have to keep updating the copyright string, knowing it doesn't matter, but if I don't the app looks old and unsupported. Some time back I wrote a handler that updates the end date to the current year on launch so I don't have to worry about it. A single copyright creation date is valid for the life of the creator plus (in the US) 75 years. Oh well. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On September 15, 2022 5:12:59 PM Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote: > On 15/09/2022 15:44, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: >> What's NavRAD? It's a better version of LiveCode's NavBar widget. >> Why "RAD"? Cos Ralph A DiMola said so, since he added the first two nifty >> updates to it: > > I see the code has an outdated copyright statement, which would (I > think) currently mean that any app using it would (potentially) become > open-source (GPL). If that;s not the intent, maybe it could be updated ? > > Currently it says > >> Copyright (C) 2015-2022 LiveCode Ltd.icon >> >> This file is part of LiveCode. >> >> LiveCode is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it >> under >> the terms of the GNU General Public License v3 as published by the Free >> Software Foundation. >> >> LiveCode is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but >> WITHOUT ANY >> WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or >> FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the GNU General Public License >> for more details. >> >> You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License >> along with LiveCode. If not see . */ > > Alex. > > > >> Copyright (C) 2015-2022 LiveCode Ltd.icon >> >> >> >> This file is part of LiveCode. >> >> >> >> LiveCode is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it >> under >> >> the terms of the GNU General Public License v3 as published by the Free >> >> Software Foundation. >> >> >> >> LiveCode is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but >> WITHOUT ANY >> >> WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or >> >> FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the GNU General Public License >> >> for more details. >> >> >> >> You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License >> >> along with LiveCode. If not see . */ >> >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From brahma at hindu.org Thu Sep 15 21:30:10 2022 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2022 01:30:10 +0000 Subject: iOS 16! It will not do landscape! Message-ID: Aloha Everyone Well I was involved in iOS 16. Just yesterday. It downloaded to my phone (iPhone 13, with Version 16.0 – 20A362) . When I did that, none of stacks of my stacks will do landscape! stack “wordpuzzle” on preOpenStack if isMobile() then mobileSetAllowedOrientations "landscape left,landscape right" mobileSetFullScreenRectForOrientations "landscape left,landscape right","0,0,736,414" set the fullscreenmode of this stack to "showAll" -- better for wider screens end if hide grc "blankScreen" setCardCoords "landscape" end preOpenStack stack “view_BrowserLandscape” on preopenstack local tBrowser, tOrientations set the fullscreenmode of this stack to empty put the short name this stack into tBrowser put (tBrowser contains "landscape") into sLandscapeOnly put "landscape left,landscape right" into tOrientations if sLandscapeOnly then put "landscape" into sOrientation else put "portrait,portrait upside down," before tOrientations put "portrait" into sOrientation end if setCardCoords sOrientation if isMobile() then mobileSetAllowedOrientations tOrientations end if resetUI hide grc "blankImage" send "showBrowser" to me in 10 seconds end preopenstack Where is the newest download. https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ LiveCode 9.6.9 RC 1, 10 August 2022 RC 1 Release Notes 10 August 2 Brahmanathaswami And it not there! Did see SivaSiva 1.7.2? It on the iPhone – App Store. Svasti Astu – Be Well Brahmanathaswami Get SivaSiva.app – It free! https://www.himalayanacademy.com/view/sivasiva From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Thu Sep 15 22:27:23 2022 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2022 12:27:23 +1000 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance Message-ID: Thanks Richard for your comments. Interesting to see comments about font drift in a general context The problems is however not fixed if you add Google fonts to your standalone. The problem could probably be fixed (on Mac and Windows anyway) by hacking the fonts to change their metadata tables but that is getting into really deep water, and may even violate copyright. The core of the issue is what I think is a design flaw in the way LC places text when it asks the platform OS to render the string. Experiment 1: Create a standard field. Set the properties to non-3d, draw borders with thickness 1 so we can judge the vertical placement. Type the text “A standard label”. Set the field font to Arial so we can compare the results on Mac and Windows. Result: On the Mac and Windows we get subtly different results. On Windows the capital “A" appears centered in the box; on the Mac the lower case letters “san" appear centered. Which means the Windows string is lower than the Mac string. As an initialisation of the new field it looks OK on both IDEs. But as we have seen we get into trouble when the text uses other fonts or sizes or if it interacts visually with nearby objects. Experiment 2: Now change the font size to 64pt. Result: The text disappears. It is now placed way below the bounding box, and it is a bit of a hassle to get it back into view. That is a terrible user interface. The nicest user experience would be if the newly sized string appeared with the same baseline as the initial string, and that would certainly make alignment of text easier. However, that model wouldn’t quite fit the LC field model with a user-settable top margin, as it would necessitate overriding the top margin. If the top margin is to be honoured, the two obvious choices are to place the text so the top of the capital A appears at the bottom of the top margin (perhaps the Windows viewpoint?) or if the top of the lowercase letters appear at the top margin, allowing cap letters and risers such as h to bleed into the top margin (let us call this the Mac viewpoint). But neither of these two are what actually happens. I can confirm that LC actually places the text (the first line, for a field with fixedLineHeight false - that is another story) so that the baseline is set top margin of the field + fontAscent of the font - 6 pixels below the top of the field. This formula holds precisely over all the fonts and sizes I have tested and on all 3 platforms. It appears what was intended, probably way back in Hypercard when fonts were bitmaps, was to drop the string below the top margin by the height of capitals (the ascent) and then pull back by 6 pixels so that the top of the lowercase x is at the top margin (the Mac viewpoint). It works well enough on the common initial fonts and sizes for fields because 6 is about the difference in letter heights at these sizes. However the fontAscent returned by measureText is quite evidently not the height of the letter A above the baseline, it is more like the maximum font height above the baseline, so the string disappears in Experiment 2. And the two platforms return different values for fontAscent anyway, leading to the alignment problems in Experiment 1. Furthermore that constant 6 is of course grossly wrong for other font sizes. What was meant surely was top margin + x-ascent of the font (Which was possibly computational more expensive bearing in mind various font formats?) It would now be impossible for LC to change how it places text in fields, to either the Mac or Windows viewpoint, because that would break every stack having a text field! What could be done however would be to add a couple of field properties which would enable baselines to be aligned, as I suggested in a previous post. Neville From alex at tweedly.net Fri Sep 16 06:41:16 2022 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2022 11:41:16 +0100 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: <18343aa41d8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <6AF5BE8C-DC3F-4EA9-8490-BA6DDDD7DD7E@m-r-d.de> <002d01d8c477$3f7e1710$be7a4530$@net> <000d01d8c53c$f3cc6d00$db654700$@net> <18343aa41d8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <1fb5963b-7bbb-4215-8c22-a33c565e04dc@tweedly.net> Sorry, I confused things by using the word "outdated". I wasn't referring to the date in the copyright statement, but to the fact that it says "Livecode is free software [...  GPL]", and "this file is part of Livecode", and implications that may have on the license situation for the widget and anyone who uses it in an app. Alex. On 16/09/2022 01:19, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > Legally the only date that matters is the date of creation. Almost > everyone adds the current date as well, and I keep trying to talk my > clients out of it but they won't listen. Then I have to keep updating > the copyright string, knowing it doesn't matter, but if I don't the > app looks old and unsupported. Some time back I wrote a handler that > updates the end date to the current year on launch so I don't have to > worry about it. > > A single copyright creation date is valid for the life of the creator > plus (in the US) 75 years. > > Oh well. > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > On September 15, 2022 5:12:59 PM Alex Tweedly via use-livecode > wrote: > >> On 15/09/2022 15:44, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: >>> What's NavRAD? It's a better version of LiveCode's NavBar widget. >>> Why "RAD"? Cos Ralph A DiMola said so, since he added the first two >>> nifty >>> updates to it: >> >> I see the code has an outdated copyright statement, which would (I >> think) currently mean that any app using it would (potentially) become >> open-source (GPL). If that;s not the intent, maybe it could be updated ? >> >> Currently it says >> >>>   Copyright (C) 2015-2022 LiveCode Ltd.icon >>> >>>   This file is part of LiveCode. >>> >>>   LiveCode is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it >>> under >>>   the terms of the GNU General Public License v3 as published by the >>> Free >>>   Software Foundation. >>> >>>   LiveCode is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but >>> WITHOUT ANY >>>   WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or >>>   FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the GNU General Public License >>>   for more details. >>> >>>   You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License >>>   along with LiveCode.  If not see .  */ >> >> Alex. >> >> >> >>> Copyright (C) 2015-2022 LiveCode Ltd.icon >>> >>> >>> >>>     This file is part of LiveCode. >>> >>> >>> >>>     LiveCode is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it >>> under >>> >>>     the terms of the GNU General Public License v3 as published by >>> the Free >>> >>>     Software Foundation. >>> >>> >>> >>>     LiveCode is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but >>> WITHOUT ANY >>> >>>     WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or >>> >>>     FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the GNU General Public >>> License >>> >>>     for more details. >>> >>> >>> >>>     You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License >>> >>>     along with LiveCode. If not see . */ >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri Sep 16 10:04:35 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2022 10:04:35 -0400 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: <1fb5963b-7bbb-4215-8c22-a33c565e04dc@tweedly.net> References: <6AF5BE8C-DC3F-4EA9-8490-BA6DDDD7DD7E@m-r-d.de> <002d01d8c477$3f7e1710$be7a4530$@net> <000d01d8c53c$f3cc6d00$db654700$@net> <18343aa41d8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <1fb5963b-7bbb-4215-8c22-a33c565e04dc@tweedly.net> Message-ID: By the way, we updated it, again, this morning, because, we're like little kids now that we're starting to crack the code on this thing. It's nothing too exciting, today, but it's better than it was, yesterday, including fixing the copyright header - which was my error. Here's what happened on the copyright: originally Ralph was working on this widget and I was working on it, separately. His version had the OSS copyright text on it (correct). I was intending to just throw the updates at LC and say "Here", so I grabbed the later copyright header to make merging it easier. The code of the widget is exactly the same between the OSS version and the one that's in the newer bundles. Now, I'm more inclined to do it "the right way", so, this morning's version has the original, technically correct, OSS header. That header says Copyright (C) 2015-2016 LiveCode Ltd. This file is part of LiveCode. LiveCode is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License v3 as published by the Free Software Foundation. LiveCode is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the GNU General Public License for more details. You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License along with LiveCode. If not see . From jbv at souslelogo.com Fri Sep 16 10:10:07 2022 From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2022 10:10:07 -0400 Subject: Ignoring accented characters Message-ID: <438ffe4e04dfebdc0411bdfede465504@souslelogo.com> Hi list, Is there a way to ignore accented characters in LC, like in mySQL for instance ? Here's an example : I need these 2 array items below to be considered as 1 single entity : add 1 to myArray["interprtation"] add 1 to myArray["interpretation"] Of course, I can write a function that removes accents, but I was wondering if there was a built-in function in LC to do that, in a similar logic as "set the casesentive to false" for instance. Thanks you in advance. jbv From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri Sep 16 10:45:53 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2022 10:45:53 -0400 Subject: iOS 16! It will not do landscape! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: weird. we've got 16.1 on our ipads. the LC app we're running on them is working fine in landscape. On Thu, Sep 15, 2022 at 9:31 PM Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote: > Aloha Everyone > > Well I was involved in iOS 16. Just yesterday. > > It downloaded to my phone (iPhone 13, with Version 16.0 – 20A362) . When I > did that, none of stacks of my stacks will do landscape! > > stack “wordpuzzle” > > on preOpenStack > > if isMobile() then > > mobileSetAllowedOrientations "landscape left,landscape > right" > > mobileSetFullScreenRectForOrientations "landscape > left,landscape right","0,0,736,414" > > set the fullscreenmode of this stack to "showAll" -- > better for wider screens > > end if > > hide grc "blankScreen" > > setCardCoords "landscape" > > end preOpenStack > > stack “view_BrowserLandscape” > > > > on preopenstack > > local tBrowser, tOrientations > > set the fullscreenmode of this stack to empty > > put the short name this stack into tBrowser > > put (tBrowser contains "landscape") into sLandscapeOnly > > put "landscape left,landscape right" into tOrientations > > if sLandscapeOnly then > > put "landscape" into sOrientation > > else > > put "portrait,portrait upside down," before tOrientations > > put "portrait" into sOrientation > > end if > > setCardCoords sOrientation > > if isMobile() then > > mobileSetAllowedOrientations tOrientations > > end if > > resetUI > > hide grc "blankImage" > > send "showBrowser" to me in 10 seconds > > end preopenstack > > Where is the newest download. > > https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ > > LiveCode 9.6.9 RC 1, 10 August 2022 > > RC 1 > Release Notes< > https://livecodestatic.com/downloads/livecode/9_6_9/LiveCodeNotes-9_6_9_rc_1.pdf > > > 10 August 2 > > > Brahmanathaswami > > > > > And it not there! > > > Did see SivaSiva 1.7.2? It on the iPhone – App Store. > > Svasti Astu – Be Well > Brahmanathaswami > > Get SivaSiva.app – It free! > https://www.himalayanacademy.com/view/sivasiva > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From brian at milby7.com Fri Sep 16 11:01:38 2022 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2022 11:01:38 -0400 Subject: iOS 16! It will not do landscape! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1DBE7123-E9C0-4DF2-B8CC-4B1D3C4F6605@milby7.com> Does your app use a launcher model? SivaSiva has one stack that is the launcher which opens the portal stack (main menu) when then goes to modules. Portrait is set on the launcher and each module has different orientation requirements/settings. Brian Milby brian at milby7.com > On Sep 16, 2022, at 10:47 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > weird. we've got 16.1 on our ipads. the LC app we're running on them is > working fine in landscape. > >> On Thu, Sep 15, 2022 at 9:31 PM Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode >> wrote: >> >> Aloha Everyone >> >> Well I was involved in iOS 16. Just yesterday. >> >> It downloaded to my phone (iPhone 13, with Version 16.0 – 20A362) . When I >> did that, none of stacks of my stacks will do landscape! >> >> stack “wordpuzzle” >> >> on preOpenStack >> >> if isMobile() then >> >> mobileSetAllowedOrientations "landscape left,landscape >> right" >> >> mobileSetFullScreenRectForOrientations "landscape >> left,landscape right","0,0,736,414" >> >> set the fullscreenmode of this stack to "showAll" -- >> better for wider screens >> >> end if >> >> hide grc "blankScreen" >> >> setCardCoords "landscape" >> >> end preOpenStack >> >> stack “view_BrowserLandscape” >> >> >> >> on preopenstack >> >> local tBrowser, tOrientations >> >> set the fullscreenmode of this stack to empty >> >> put the short name this stack into tBrowser >> >> put (tBrowser contains "landscape") into sLandscapeOnly >> >> put "landscape left,landscape right" into tOrientations >> >> if sLandscapeOnly then >> >> put "landscape" into sOrientation >> >> else >> >> put "portrait,portrait upside down," before tOrientations >> >> put "portrait" into sOrientation >> >> end if >> >> setCardCoords sOrientation >> >> if isMobile() then >> >> mobileSetAllowedOrientations tOrientations >> >> end if >> >> resetUI >> >> hide grc "blankImage" >> >> send "showBrowser" to me in 10 seconds >> >> end preopenstack >> >> Where is the newest download. >> >> https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ >> >> LiveCode 9.6.9 RC 1, 10 August 2022 >> >> RC 1 >> Release Notes< >> https://livecodestatic.com/downloads/livecode/9_6_9/LiveCodeNotes-9_6_9_rc_1.pdf >>> >> 10 August 2 >> >> >> Brahmanathaswami >> >> >> >> >> And it not there! >> >> >> Did see SivaSiva 1.7.2? It on the iPhone – App Store. >> >> Svasti Astu – Be Well >> Brahmanathaswami >> >> Get SivaSiva.app – It free! >> https://www.himalayanacademy.com/view/sivasiva >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From harrison at all-auctions.com Fri Sep 16 11:10:35 2022 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2022 11:10:35 -0400 Subject: iOS 16! It will not do landscape! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Perhaps the screen lock is turned on so it only shows stuff in portrait mode? > On Sep 16, 2022, at 10:45 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > weird. we've got 16.1 on our ipads. the LC app we're running on them is > working fine in landscape. > > On Thu, Sep 15, 2022 at 9:31 PM Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode > wrote: > >> Aloha Everyone >> >> Well I was involved in iOS 16. Just yesterday. >> >> It downloaded to my phone (iPhone 13, with Version 16.0 – 20A362) . When I >> did that, none of stacks of my stacks will do landscape! >> >> stack “wordpuzzle” >> >> on preOpenStack >> >> if isMobile() then >> >> mobileSetAllowedOrientations "landscape left,landscape >> right" >> >> mobileSetFullScreenRectForOrientations "landscape >> left,landscape right","0,0,736,414" >> >> set the fullscreenmode of this stack to "showAll" -- >> better for wider screens >> >> end if >> >> hide grc "blankScreen" >> >> setCardCoords "landscape" >> >> end preOpenStack >> >> stack “view_BrowserLandscape” >> >> >> >> on preopenstack >> >> local tBrowser, tOrientations >> >> set the fullscreenmode of this stack to empty >> >> put the short name this stack into tBrowser >> >> put (tBrowser contains "landscape") into sLandscapeOnly >> >> put "landscape left,landscape right" into tOrientations >> >> if sLandscapeOnly then >> >> put "landscape" into sOrientation >> >> else >> >> put "portrait,portrait upside down," before tOrientations >> >> put "portrait" into sOrientation >> >> end if >> >> setCardCoords sOrientation >> >> if isMobile() then >> >> mobileSetAllowedOrientations tOrientations >> >> end if >> >> resetUI >> >> hide grc "blankImage" >> >> send "showBrowser" to me in 10 seconds >> >> end preopenstack >> >> Where is the newest download. >> >> https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ >> >> LiveCode 9.6.9 RC 1, 10 August 2022 >> >> RC 1 >> Release Notes< >> https://livecodestatic.com/downloads/livecode/9_6_9/LiveCodeNotes-9_6_9_rc_1.pdf >>> >> 10 August 2 >> >> >> Brahmanathaswami >> >> >> >> >> And it not there! >> >> >> Did see SivaSiva 1.7.2? It on the iPhone – App Store. >> >> Svasti Astu – Be Well >> Brahmanathaswami >> >> Get SivaSiva.app – It free! >> https://www.himalayanacademy.com/view/sivasiva >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From brian at milby7.com Fri Sep 16 11:27:52 2022 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2022 11:27:52 -0400 Subject: iOS 16! It will not do landscape! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2C81F73C-9BD6-407E-A142-B47945B3CB6B@milby7.com> It is not an orientation lock issue. I’ve submitted a bug report but didn’t have iOS 16 loaded yet and have not had a chance to build some test apps to narrow down the details of the issue. Apple did make changes in iOS 16 with how apps request a specific orientation. Brian Milby brian at milby7.com > On Sep 16, 2022, at 11:11 AM, harrison--- via use-livecode wrote: > > Perhaps the screen lock is turned on so it only shows stuff in portrait mode? > >> On Sep 16, 2022, at 10:45 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: >> >> weird. we've got 16.1 on our ipads. the LC app we're running on them is >> working fine in landscape. >> >>> On Thu, Sep 15, 2022 at 9:31 PM Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode >>> wrote: >>> >>> Aloha Everyone >>> >>> Well I was involved in iOS 16. Just yesterday. >>> >>> It downloaded to my phone (iPhone 13, with Version 16.0 – 20A362) . When I >>> did that, none of stacks of my stacks will do landscape! >>> >>> stack “wordpuzzle” >>> >>> on preOpenStack >>> >>> if isMobile() then >>> >>> mobileSetAllowedOrientations "landscape left,landscape >>> right" >>> >>> mobileSetFullScreenRectForOrientations "landscape >>> left,landscape right","0,0,736,414" >>> >>> set the fullscreenmode of this stack to "showAll" -- >>> better for wider screens >>> >>> end if >>> >>> hide grc "blankScreen" >>> >>> setCardCoords "landscape" >>> >>> end preOpenStack >>> >>> stack “view_BrowserLandscape” >>> >>> >>> >>> on preopenstack >>> >>> local tBrowser, tOrientations >>> >>> set the fullscreenmode of this stack to empty >>> >>> put the short name this stack into tBrowser >>> >>> put (tBrowser contains "landscape") into sLandscapeOnly >>> >>> put "landscape left,landscape right" into tOrientations >>> >>> if sLandscapeOnly then >>> >>> put "landscape" into sOrientation >>> >>> else >>> >>> put "portrait,portrait upside down," before tOrientations >>> >>> put "portrait" into sOrientation >>> >>> end if >>> >>> setCardCoords sOrientation >>> >>> if isMobile() then >>> >>> mobileSetAllowedOrientations tOrientations >>> >>> end if >>> >>> resetUI >>> >>> hide grc "blankImage" >>> >>> send "showBrowser" to me in 10 seconds >>> >>> end preopenstack >>> >>> Where is the newest download. >>> >>> https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ >>> >>> LiveCode 9.6.9 RC 1, 10 August 2022 >>> >>> RC 1 >>> Release Notes< >>> https://livecodestatic.com/downloads/livecode/9_6_9/LiveCodeNotes-9_6_9_rc_1.pdf >>>> >>> 10 August 2 >>> >>> >>> Brahmanathaswami >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> And it not there! >>> >>> >>> Did see SivaSiva 1.7.2? It on the iPhone – App Store. >>> >>> Svasti Astu – Be Well >>> Brahmanathaswami >>> >>> Get SivaSiva.app – It free! >>> https://www.himalayanacademy.com/view/sivasiva >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> >> -- >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >> On the second day, God created the oceans. >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> and did a little diving. >> And God said, "This is good." >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From hlowe at me.com Fri Sep 16 16:54:23 2022 From: hlowe at me.com (HENRY LOWE) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2022 21:54:23 +0100 Subject: iOS 16! It will not do landscape! In-Reply-To: <2C81F73C-9BD6-407E-A142-B47945B3CB6B@milby7.com> References: <2C81F73C-9BD6-407E-A142-B47945B3CB6B@milby7.com> Message-ID: I have an iOS app that supports both portrait and landscape mode on the iPhone. It continues to work as expected in iOS 16. I don’t use LC’s built-in commands but instead use proprietary code to handle screen redraws. Henry > On Sep 16, 2022, at 4:27 PM, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote: > > It is not an orientation lock issue. I’ve submitted a bug report but didn’t have iOS 16 loaded yet and have not had a chance to build some test apps to narrow down the details of the issue. Apple did make changes in iOS 16 with how apps request a specific orientation. > > Brian Milby > brian at milby7.com > >> On Sep 16, 2022, at 11:11 AM, harrison--- via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Perhaps the screen lock is turned on so it only shows stuff in portrait mode? >> >>> On Sep 16, 2022, at 10:45 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> weird. we've got 16.1 on our ipads. the LC app we're running on them is >>> working fine in landscape. >>> >>>> On Thu, Sep 15, 2022 at 9:31 PM Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Aloha Everyone >>>> >>>> Well I was involved in iOS 16. Just yesterday. >>>> >>>> It downloaded to my phone (iPhone 13, with Version 16.0 – 20A362) . When I >>>> did that, none of stacks of my stacks will do landscape! >>>> >>>> stack “wordpuzzle” >>>> >>>> on preOpenStack >>>> >>>> if isMobile() then >>>> >>>> mobileSetAllowedOrientations "landscape left,landscape >>>> right" >>>> >>>> mobileSetFullScreenRectForOrientations "landscape >>>> left,landscape right","0,0,736,414" >>>> >>>> set the fullscreenmode of this stack to "showAll" -- >>>> better for wider screens >>>> >>>> end if >>>> >>>> hide grc "blankScreen" >>>> >>>> setCardCoords "landscape" >>>> >>>> end preOpenStack >>>> >>>> stack “view_BrowserLandscape” >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> on preopenstack >>>> >>>> local tBrowser, tOrientations >>>> >>>> set the fullscreenmode of this stack to empty >>>> >>>> put the short name this stack into tBrowser >>>> >>>> put (tBrowser contains "landscape") into sLandscapeOnly >>>> >>>> put "landscape left,landscape right" into tOrientations >>>> >>>> if sLandscapeOnly then >>>> >>>> put "landscape" into sOrientation >>>> >>>> else >>>> >>>> put "portrait,portrait upside down," before tOrientations >>>> >>>> put "portrait" into sOrientation >>>> >>>> end if >>>> >>>> setCardCoords sOrientation >>>> >>>> if isMobile() then >>>> >>>> mobileSetAllowedOrientations tOrientations >>>> >>>> end if >>>> >>>> resetUI >>>> >>>> hide grc "blankImage" >>>> >>>> send "showBrowser" to me in 10 seconds >>>> >>>> end preopenstack >>>> >>>> Where is the newest download. >>>> >>>> https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ >>>> >>>> LiveCode 9.6.9 RC 1, 10 August 2022 >>>> >>>> RC 1 >>>> Release Notes< >>>> https://livecodestatic.com/downloads/livecode/9_6_9/LiveCodeNotes-9_6_9_rc_1.pdf >>>>> >>>> 10 August 2 >>>> >>>> >>>> Brahmanathaswami >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> And it not there! >>>> >>>> >>>> Did see SivaSiva 1.7.2? It on the iPhone – App Store. >>>> >>>> Svasti Astu – Be Well >>>> Brahmanathaswami >>>> >>>> Get SivaSiva.app – It free! >>>> https://www.himalayanacademy.com/view/sivasiva >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >>> On the second day, God created the oceans. >>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >>> and did a little diving. >>> And God said, "This is good." >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Sep 16 18:35:51 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2022 17:35:51 -0500 Subject: Web app checkbox buttons Message-ID: <187661e8-560d-b57a-c85c-d4163a251eb2@hyperactivesw.com> When a web app is run in a browser there are two buttons at the upper right: "Resize canvas" and "Lock/hide mouse pointer". What do these do? There is also a "Fullscreen" button that throws a javascript error. If/when it works, is it supposed to change the browser window to full screen? Or just make the stack content fit the window? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From alex at tweedly.net Fri Sep 16 19:35:03 2022 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2022 00:35:03 +0100 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: <001b01d8c919$14886c80$3d994580$@net> References: <6AF5BE8C-DC3F-4EA9-8490-BA6DDDD7DD7E@m-r-d.de> <002d01d8c477$3f7e1710$be7a4530$@net> <000d01d8c53c$f3cc6d00$db654700$@net> <001b01d8c919$14886c80$3d994580$@net> Message-ID: <5fd6cbaf-3070-657b-6668-e85ac4bd042f@tweedly.net> On 15/09/2022 16:37, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote: > Docs aside... I still think that widgets and lcb is one of best additions to > LC. Community collaboration like this will make for better documentation and > more new/improved widgets. A robust library of widgets can only help LC to > penetrate the market. If only we had these when I started... I so much want to agree - but unfortunately it looks to me more like the biggest missed opportunity. The combination of widgets and LCB is a powerful one (and may indeed be one of the best additions). But I think if you unpick and pull apart the two parts (widget vs LCB) then there is what looks, to the naive observer like me, a missed chance. Widgets + LCB gives us (amongst other things): 1. naming + distribution + installation schemes. 2. integration with the docs / dictionary and IDE tools (inspectors, editors) 3. efficient "direct" drawing to canvas 4. typed variables 5. access to foreign languages / libraries. 6. maybe potential for future performance gains. But of those, only the last two *require* LCB; the others *could* have been done in a way that allows LCScript authors to benefit. (1) and (2) are clearly feasible for LCS almost without change from what's been done for LCB widgets, and I have to believe it would have been possible to provide LCS commands and functions to manipulate the canvas. Given those three things, many of the widgets (e.g. rotatedtext, navRAD) look like they could have been done easily using LCS. I still hold on to the hope that this will become a feature in some future release. And when (if) it ever does, then maybe we will see "1000 widgets by Christmas" because it will be so much more approachable for the average LS Scripter. Alex. From jacques.clavel at gmail.com Sat Sep 17 03:54:53 2022 From: jacques.clavel at gmail.com (Jacques Clavel) Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2022 09:54:53 +0200 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: <5fd6cbaf-3070-657b-6668-e85ac4bd042f@tweedly.net> References: <6AF5BE8C-DC3F-4EA9-8490-BA6DDDD7DD7E@m-r-d.de> <002d01d8c477$3f7e1710$be7a4530$@net> <000d01d8c53c$f3cc6d00$db654700$@net> <001b01d8c919$14886c80$3d994580$@net> <5fd6cbaf-3070-657b-6668-e85ac4bd042f@tweedly.net> Message-ID: point 6. maybe potential for future performance gains : - But today LCB is surprisingly less efficient (/3) than LCS (???) JC Le sam. 17 sept. 2022 à 01:35, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> a écrit : > > On 15/09/2022 16:37, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote: > > Docs aside... I still think that widgets and lcb is one of best > additions to > > LC. Community collaboration like this will make for better documentation > and > > more new/improved widgets. A robust library of widgets can only help LC > to > > penetrate the market. If only we had these when I started... > > I so much want to agree - but unfortunately it looks to me more like the > biggest missed opportunity. > > The combination of widgets and LCB is a powerful one (and may indeed be > one of the best additions). But I think if you unpick and pull apart the > two parts (widget vs LCB) then there is what looks, to the naive > observer like me, a missed chance. > > Widgets + LCB gives us (amongst other things): > > 1. naming + distribution + installation schemes. > > 2. integration with the docs / dictionary and IDE tools (inspectors, > editors) > > 3. efficient "direct" drawing to canvas > > 4. typed variables > > 5. access to foreign languages / libraries. > > 6. maybe potential for future performance gains. > > > But of those, only the last two *require* LCB; the others *could* have > been done in a way that allows LCScript authors to benefit. (1) and (2) > are clearly feasible for LCS almost without change from what's been done > for LCB widgets, and I have to believe it would have been possible to > provide LCS commands and functions to manipulate the canvas. > > Given those three things, many of the widgets (e.g. rotatedtext, navRAD) > look like they could have been done easily using LCS. > > I still hold on to the hope that this will become a feature in some > future release. And when (if) it ever does, then maybe we will see "1000 > widgets by Christmas" because it will be so much more approachable for > the average LS Scripter. > > Alex. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Jacques Clavel From alex at tweedly.net Sat Sep 17 07:01:18 2022 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2022 12:01:18 +0100 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <6AF5BE8C-DC3F-4EA9-8490-BA6DDDD7DD7E@m-r-d.de> <002d01d8c477$3f7e1710$be7a4530$@net> <000d01d8c53c$f3cc6d00$db654700$@net> <001b01d8c919$14886c80$3d994580$@net> <5fd6cbaf-3070-657b-6668-e85ac4bd042f@tweedly.net> Message-ID: On 17/09/2022 08:54, Jacques Clavel via use-livecode wrote: > point 6. maybe potential for future performance gains : > - But today LCB is surprisingly less efficient (/3) than LCS (???) > Yes, at first glance it is surprising; typed variables etc. *should* make it possible to be more efficient. And I think some day they will. But for now, I think that isn't, and shouldn't be, a priority for LC Ltd. The intended uses for LCB are to interface to other libraries/languages, and to provide graphic / UI widgets - and performance is not critical to either of those roles. If I have a LC app which is suffering performance, I should first look at the algorithm, the data structures, engine features I might be able to use, ...., separate process, ... And if none of them fix it for me, then I'm probably going to want a high-performance library in some other language (C, C++, even NumPY, whatever) which allows it to be highly optimized. My new slogan : If I'm suffering for performance, I don't want a 10% improvement from LCB, I want a 10x improvement from C. Alex. From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sat Sep 17 08:57:09 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2022 08:57:09 -0400 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <6AF5BE8C-DC3F-4EA9-8490-BA6DDDD7DD7E@m-r-d.de> <002d01d8c477$3f7e1710$be7a4530$@net> <000d01d8c53c$f3cc6d00$db654700$@net> <001b01d8c919$14886c80$3d994580$@net> <5fd6cbaf-3070-657b-6668-e85ac4bd042f@tweedly.net> Message-ID: Have a look at the CompileIt! manual again. That was 1990. There was no special intermediate language to get toolbox rom or native library calls. LC's choice to engineer LCB the way it did was a choice. It obviously makes it less approachable to the customer. Maybe it makes it easier for the team. Unfortunately, what REALLY makes it less approachable to us, as customers, is all of the work that has to go in to learning it due to the thin documentation, and how long it takes to debug it because the tools are not groovy. (Oh, look, a syntax error! What exactly is the error?) If you have used tmControls (https://github.com/macMikey/tmControl), you will see that it's more than possible to build beautiful controls with LCS. In some cases, native interface objects are great, but in a lot of cases, they are completely overrated (I'm looking at you,flat iOS button). In the meantime, for all of you that are interested, please stop over at the LCB Missing Manual repo on github ( https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual). The wiki is an attempt to build a real LCB manual. The issues are for all of the things that get you stuck, so please post. That will help the wiki get better. From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sat Sep 17 21:40:45 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2022 21:40:45 -0400 Subject: calling all LCB/widget/property editor/property inspector nerds Message-ID: are there any more LCB/widget/property editor/property inspector nerds in here? I'm messing with the next iteration of the navBar/navRAD, and in the weeds, with no documentation to help guide the way. -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From livfoss at mac.com Mon Sep 19 11:43:07 2022 From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2022 17:43:07 +0200 Subject: Calendar interfaces Message-ID: Folks, I have not been following this list with great attention for the last few months, nor doing active LC development, so I’ve missed a lot, but now I have been asked to look into the possibility of an app that reads and writes to standard calendars, particularly the kind used by Apple. I believe their apps for Mac and iOS use some kind of open standard, and if so there must be a useable API. To save me lots of research, can I ask if anyone has worked with calendars like these, and if so, can they point me to an easy way to get LC to talk to them. TIA Graham From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon Sep 19 12:05:43 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2022 16:05:43 +0000 Subject: Calendar interfaces In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <84A3BBD8-0DAE-49E3-B41D-C6BD6E99188C@iotecdigital.com> Hi Graham. I was just looking at this myself. I think the best way to work with calendars is to send an email with an iCalendar file (.ics). I will send you a zip file of an example with attachment to your personal email. It's pretty straight forward, but the file attachment is base 64 encoded binary so be aware of that. .ics files are simply specially formatted text files. Most email clients when they detect an ics file with an invite embedded will give you an accept/decline option. That being said, I know that MacOS calendar app is Applescript enabled, and if you open an ics file in windows with the command prompt, it will launch the default calendar app and add the event to the default calendar. Here is a link for the RFC 5545 spec, but I warn you it is a lot, and you really don't need to know all of it. The example I send you will teach you more than anything else: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc5545#section-3.7 Bob S On Sep 19, 2022, at 08:43 , Graham Samuel via use-livecode > wrote: Folks, I have not been following this list with great attention for the last few months, nor doing active LC development, so I’ve missed a lot, but now I have been asked to look into the possibility of an app that reads and writes to standard calendars, particularly the kind used by Apple. I believe their apps for Mac and iOS use some kind of open standard, and if so there must be a useable API. To save me lots of research, can I ask if anyone has worked with calendars like these, and if so, can they point me to an easy way to get LC to talk to them. TIA Graham _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From livfoss at mac.com Mon Sep 19 12:12:31 2022 From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2022 18:12:31 +0200 Subject: Calendar interfaces In-Reply-To: <84A3BBD8-0DAE-49E3-B41D-C6BD6E99188C@iotecdigital.com> References: <84A3BBD8-0DAE-49E3-B41D-C6BD6E99188C@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <650072F0-EE0E-4429-80FA-020096B7935A@mac.com> Wow! That was a quick reply! Thanks so much. I will look forward very much to learning from you example file. Graham > On 19 Sep 2022, at 18:05, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Graham. I was just looking at this myself. I think the best way to work with calendars is to send an email with an iCalendar file (.ics). I will send you a zip file of an example with attachment to your personal email. It's pretty straight forward, but the file attachment is base 64 encoded binary so be aware of that. .ics files are simply specially formatted text files. Most email clients when they detect an ics file with an invite embedded will give you an accept/decline option. > > That being said, I know that MacOS calendar app is Applescript enabled, and if you open an ics file in windows with the command prompt, it will launch the default calendar app and add the event to the default calendar. > > > Here is a link for the RFC 5545 spec, but I warn you it is a lot, and you really don't need to know all of it. The example I send you will teach you more than anything else: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc5545#section-3.7 > > Bob S > > > On Sep 19, 2022, at 08:43 , Graham Samuel via use-livecode > wrote: > > Folks, I have not been following this list with great attention for the last few months, nor doing active LC development, so I’ve missed a lot, but now I have been asked to look into the possibility of an app that reads and writes to standard calendars, particularly the kind used by Apple. I believe their apps for Mac and iOS use some kind of open standard, and if so there must be a useable API. > > To save me lots of research, can I ask if anyone has worked with calendars like these, and if so, can they point me to an easy way to get LC to talk to them. > > TIA > > Graham > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From andre at andregarzia.com Tue Sep 20 06:28:22 2022 From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2022 11:28:22 +0100 Subject: Calendar interfaces In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0CA0B99A-EB9F-4DF3-AB95-4CEDAC34A6CD@andregarzia.com> Graham, In 2005 I wrote a library to parse and generate vCards and iCalendar files. It is a very old library I wrote when I was still early in my LiveCode journey. It works but it is underdocumented. There are commands and functions to generate an iCalendar file and there are some “raw” vObject (the common part of vCards and iCal files) functions that can be used to parse them. I don’t think this is a turn-key solution for your problem but it is a good starting point to develop your own solution. I’ve uploaded it to: https://andregarzia.com/files/vObjectPackage.livecode.zip The iCal part is not documented but it is on the source code. Learn the vCard documentation and you’ll get a feel for how the iCal part should work. Then, look at the source of “vObjectlib” substack for the command names. Best Andre > On 19 Sep 2022, at 16:43, Graham Samuel via use-livecode wrote: > > Folks, I have not been following this list with great attention for the last few months, nor doing active LC development, so I’ve missed a lot, but now I have been asked to look into the possibility of an app that reads and writes to standard calendars, particularly the kind used by Apple. I believe their apps for Mac and iOS use some kind of open standard, and if so there must be a useable API. > > To save me lots of research, can I ask if anyone has worked with calendars like these, and if so, can they point me to an easy way to get LC to talk to them. > > TIA > > Graham > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Tue Sep 20 12:59:50 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2022 12:59:50 -0400 Subject: [LCB]custom property editor Message-ID: the megabundle widgets have custom property editors bundled with them in their /editors folder. unfortunately, i cannot find any documentation on how to do this. i'm assuming we would use a metadata variant, but of course there does not seem to be any documentation on how to do that. i have tried embedding both /editors/ and editors/ in the editor metadata, but that does not seem to work. any ideas? -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Tue Sep 20 17:02:13 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2022 17:02:13 -0400 Subject: lc 9.8 with xc 13.2.1 Message-ID: The notes for 9.8 says it supports xc 13.2, and i'm seeing others using 13.2.1 I'm getting an error with 13.2.1. (error linking for arm - "iphoneos 15.2" cannot be located) building for ios 9 or later -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From merakosp at gmail.com Wed Sep 21 03:24:18 2022 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis m) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2022 10:24:18 +0300 Subject: lc 9.8 with xc 13.2.1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Mike, Yes, 13.2.1 should work too. Where have you stored Xcode? Did you by any chance rename the Xcode.app bundle? Kind regards, Panos -- On Wed, 21 Sept 2022 at 00:04, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > The notes for 9.8 says it supports xc 13.2, and i'm seeing others using > 13.2.1 > I'm getting an error with 13.2.1. > (error linking for arm - "iphoneos 15.2" cannot be located) > building for ios 9 or later > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From merakosp at gmail.com Wed Sep 21 03:29:04 2022 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis m) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2022 10:29:04 +0300 Subject: lc 9.8 with xc 13.2.1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Also, what does this return (in the Terminal): xcode-select -p Cheers, Panos On Wed, 21 Sept 2022 at 10:24, panagiotis m wrote: > Hello Mike, > > Yes, 13.2.1 should work too. > > Where have you stored Xcode? Did you by any chance rename the Xcode.app > bundle? > > Kind regards, > Panos > -- > > On Wed, 21 Sept 2022 at 00:04, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> The notes for 9.8 says it supports xc 13.2, and i'm seeing others using >> 13.2.1 >> I'm getting an error with 13.2.1. >> (error linking for arm - "iphoneos 15.2" cannot be located) >> building for ios 9 or later >> >> -- >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >> On the second day, God created the oceans. >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> and did a little diving. >> And God said, "This is good." >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed Sep 21 07:46:19 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2022 07:46:19 -0400 Subject: lc 9.8 with xc 13.2.1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: OMFG SCREW YOU, PANOS anyway, if it was /XCode 12.5.1/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer executing sudo xcode-select -s /Applications/Xcode fixed it On Wed, Sep 21, 2022 at 3:30 AM panagiotis m via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Also, what does this return (in the Terminal): > > xcode-select -p > > Cheers, > Panos > > On Wed, 21 Sept 2022 at 10:24, panagiotis m wrote: > > > Hello Mike, > > > > Yes, 13.2.1 should work too. > > > > Where have you stored Xcode? Did you by any chance rename the Xcode.app > > bundle? > > > > Kind regards, > > Panos > > -- > > > > On Wed, 21 Sept 2022 at 00:04, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > >> The notes for 9.8 says it supports xc 13.2, and i'm seeing others using > >> 13.2.1 > >> I'm getting an error with 13.2.1. > >> (error linking for arm - "iphoneos 15.2" cannot be located) > >> building for ios 9 or later > >> > >> -- > >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > >> On the second day, God created the oceans. > >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > >> and did a little diving. > >> And God said, "This is good." > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed Sep 21 19:37:56 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2022 19:37:56 -0400 Subject: [LCB]custom property editor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: never mind, i went on a bear hunt in the ide and found it. If someone stumbles on this thread, you can find the information in the LiveCode Builder Missing Manual wiki ( https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual/wiki) On Tue, Sep 20, 2022 at 12:59 PM Mike Kerner wrote: > the megabundle widgets have custom property editors bundled with them in > their /editors folder. unfortunately, i cannot find any documentation on > how to do this. i'm assuming we would use a metadata variant, but of course > there does not seem to be any documentation on how to do that. i have tried > embedding both /editors/ and editors/ in the editor metadata, but that does > not seem to work. > any ideas? > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From gcanyon at gmail.com Thu Sep 22 15:58:57 2022 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2022 12:58:57 -0700 Subject: Weird performance issue Message-ID: I was testing something for Navigator and found the following: put the long seconds into T repeat 10000 get there is a card 1 of stack "untitled 1" --get there is a card 1 of stack "revnavigator" end repeat put the long seconds - T into T put T -- puts 0.005 or so put the long seconds into T repeat 10000 --get there is a card 1 of stack "untitled 1" get there is a card 1 of stack "revnavigator" end repeat put the long seconds - T into T put T -- puts 1.2 Why in the world would it take over 200x as long to identify that there is a card 1 of Navigator vs. a random stack I just created? I just checked and: stack "message" -- over 3 seconds -- a second run was 0.4 stack "revdictionary" -- 1.5 seconds stack "home" -- 0.02 seconds I ran it across everything in the environment and got results from under a hundredth of a second to over a second, with stacks pretty smoothly across that range. No clue what's causing it. From tom at makeshyft.com Thu Sep 22 19:32:49 2022 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2022 19:32:49 -0400 Subject: PolyGrid Message-ID: Hello Folks, I'm wondering if there is any official documentation for the polygrid and polylist widgets. Like a place that tells you what messages the grid listens to and etc. Something in written form? Thanks -- Tom Glod Founder & Developer @ MakeShyft R.D.A Build Software with AppStarterStack for Livecode From craig at starfirelighting.com Fri Sep 23 09:45:10 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2022 09:45:10 -0400 Subject: Weird performance issue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6CB38AC4-4F31-4A25-8DD6-0EA1D13631FF@starfirelighting.com> Geoff. I get over 5 seconds for the “revNavigatior” So I modified your handler just a bit, to only a But “revNaviigator” does not appear on that list. So there must be a longer pathway for LC to find a stack that certainly must be in memory, but that does not appear in the “stacks” list? Craig > On Sep 22, 2022, at 3:58 PM, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode wrote: > > put the long seconds into T > repeat 10000 > get there is a card 1 of stack "untitled 1" > --get there is a card 1 of stack "revnavigator" > end repeat > put the long seconds - T into T > put T > -- puts 0.005 or so > > put the long seconds into T > repeat 10000 > --get there is a card 1 of stack "untitled 1" > get there is a card 1 of stack "revnavigator" > end repeat > put the long seconds - T into T > put T > -- puts 1.2 From craig at starfirelighting.com Fri Sep 23 09:47:56 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2022 09:47:56 -0400 Subject: Weird performance issue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <815CBBDD-46B4-4F68-B12D-B102598874D9@starfirelighting.com> Something weird happened to my post. I modified your handler to access only those stacks that appear when calling the function “the stacks”. In all those cases, the return time was only a few tenths of a second. But “revNaviigator” does not appear on that list. So there must be a longer pathway for LC to find a stack that certainly must be in memory, but that does not appear in the “stacks” list? Craig > On Sep 22, 2022, at 3:58 PM, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode wrote: > > I was testing something for Navigator and found the following: > > put the long seconds into T > repeat 10000 > get there is a card 1 of stack "untitled 1" > --get there is a card 1 of stack "revnavigator" > end repeat > put the long seconds - T into T > put T > -- puts 0.005 or so > > put the long seconds into T > repeat 10000 > --get there is a card 1 of stack "untitled 1" > get there is a card 1 of stack "revnavigator" > end repeat > put the long seconds - T into T > put T > -- puts 1.2 > > Why in the world would it take over 200x as long to identify that there is > a card 1 of Navigator vs. a random stack I just created? > > I just checked and: > stack "message" -- over 3 seconds -- a second run was 0.4 > stack "revdictionary" -- 1.5 seconds > stack "home" -- 0.02 seconds > > I ran it across everything in the environment and got results from under a > hundredth of a second to over a second, with stacks pretty smoothly across > that range. No clue what's causing it. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From gcanyon at gmail.com Fri Sep 23 10:34:59 2022 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2022 07:34:59 -0700 Subject: Weird performance issue In-Reply-To: <815CBBDD-46B4-4F68-B12D-B102598874D9@starfirelighting.com> References: <815CBBDD-46B4-4F68-B12D-B102598874D9@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: Hmm, this is what "the stacks" returns for me: /Users/gcanyon/Desktop/nav tester 0.004608 /Applications/LiveCode 9.6.8.app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/palettes/script-editor/revscripteditor.rev 0.272558 /Applications/LiveCode 9.6.8.app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/palettes/tools-palette/revtools.livecodescript 0.440798 /Applications/LiveCode 9.6.8.app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/palettes/dictionary/revdictionary.livecode 1.72743 /Applications/LiveCode 9.6.8.app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/palettes/menubar/revmenubar.livecodescript 0.421698 /Users/gcanyon/Desktop/nav tester 0.00453 0.007308 /Applications/LiveCode 9.6.8.app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/palettes/inspector/revinspector.livecodescript 1.565991 /Users/gcanyon/Documents/My LiveCode/Plugins/Navigator.rev 1.348666 Note the super long times for the dictionary, the inspector, and navigator, the mediocre times for others, and the super fast time for the stack actually running the code. I'm on an M1 mac running 9.6.8 On Fri, Sep 23, 2022 at 6:48 AM Craig Newman via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Something weird happened to my post. > > I modified your handler to access only those stacks that appear when > calling the function “the stacks”. In all those cases, the return time was > only a few tenths of a second. > > But “revNaviigator” does not appear on that list. So there must be a > longer pathway for LC to find a stack that certainly must be in memory, but > that does not appear in the “stacks” list? > > Craig > > > On Sep 22, 2022, at 3:58 PM, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > I was testing something for Navigator and found the following: > > > > put the long seconds into T > > repeat 10000 > > get there is a card 1 of stack "untitled 1" > > --get there is a card 1 of stack "revnavigator" > > end repeat > > put the long seconds - T into T > > put T > > -- puts 0.005 or so > > > > put the long seconds into T > > repeat 10000 > > --get there is a card 1 of stack "untitled 1" > > get there is a card 1 of stack "revnavigator" > > end repeat > > put the long seconds - T into T > > put T > > -- puts 1.2 > > > > Why in the world would it take over 200x as long to identify that there > is > > a card 1 of Navigator vs. a random stack I just created? > > > > I just checked and: > > stack "message" -- over 3 seconds -- a second run was 0.4 > > stack "revdictionary" -- 1.5 seconds > > stack "home" -- 0.02 seconds > > > > I ran it across everything in the environment and got results from under > a > > hundredth of a second to over a second, with stacks pretty smoothly > across > > that range. No clue what's causing it. > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From klaus at major-k.de Fri Sep 23 11:46:47 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2022 17:46:47 +0200 Subject: PolyGrid In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Tom, > Am 23.09.2022 um 01:32 schrieb Tom Glod via use-livecode : > > Hello Folks, > > I'm wondering if there is any official documentation for the polygrid and > polylist widgets. > Like a place that tells you what messages the grid listens to and etc. > Something in written form? yes, check the dictionary for PolyList and PolyGrid. > Thanks > > -- > Tom Glod Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Sep 23 13:40:40 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2022 12:40:40 -0500 Subject: Weird performance issue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1836b6fe9c0.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> It may be related to the size of the stack. LC would have to load it all into memory before checking the cards. Also, do the results change if you lock messages? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On September 22, 2022 3:01:48 PM Geoff Canyon via use-livecode wrote: > I was testing something for Navigator and found the following: > > put the long seconds into T > repeat 10000 > get there is a card 1 of stack "untitled 1" > --get there is a card 1 of stack "revnavigator" > end repeat > put the long seconds - T into T > put T > -- puts 0.005 or so > > put the long seconds into T > repeat 10000 > --get there is a card 1 of stack "untitled 1" > get there is a card 1 of stack "revnavigator" > end repeat > put the long seconds - T into T > put T > -- puts 1.2 > > Why in the world would it take over 200x as long to identify that there is > a card 1 of Navigator vs. a random stack I just created? > > I just checked and: > stack "message" -- over 3 seconds -- a second run was 0.4 > stack "revdictionary" -- 1.5 seconds > stack "home" -- 0.02 seconds > > I ran it across everything in the environment and got results from under a > hundredth of a second to over a second, with stacks pretty smoothly across > that range. No clue what's causing it. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ahsoftware at sonic.net Fri Sep 23 14:07:17 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2022 11:07:17 -0700 Subject: Weird performance issue In-Reply-To: <1836b6fe9c0.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <1836b6fe9c0.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <97d00205-4a08-f776-335f-584579364e3b@sonic.net> On 9/23/22 10:40, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > It may be related to the size of the stack. LC would have to load it all > into memory before checking the cards. Also, do the results change if > you lock messages? You also do a *lot* of work on both opening the stack and opening the card. And looping through that many times in your test. Your loop test doesn't really simulate real-world conditions for Navigator, so I don't think I'd worry about it too much. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From tom at makeshyft.com Fri Sep 23 14:09:54 2022 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2022 14:09:54 -0400 Subject: PolyGrid In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Klaus, Its strange that it didn't occur to me to check there, I assumed it was not updated. :D My bad. Thanks. Tom On Fri, Sep 23, 2022 at 11:47 AM Klaus major-k via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi Tom, > > > Am 23.09.2022 um 01:32 schrieb Tom Glod via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: > > > > Hello Folks, > > > > I'm wondering if there is any official documentation for the polygrid and > > polylist widgets. > > Like a place that tells you what messages the grid listens to and etc. > > Something in written form? > > yes, check the dictionary for PolyList and PolyGrid. > > > Thanks > > > > -- > > Tom Glod > > Best > > Klaus > > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > https://www.major-k.de/bass > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From gcanyon at gmail.com Fri Sep 23 18:41:17 2022 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2022 15:41:17 -0700 Subject: Weird performance issue In-Reply-To: <1836b6fe9c0.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <1836b6fe9c0.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: My test stack had over a thousand cards in it, and was still fast checking the 1000th card. I've now added a field to each of a thousand cards and stuck text in it; the stack is over 12MB and still much faster than Navigator, which is under 1MB. Lock Messages does nothing as far as I can tell. thanks! gc On Fri, Sep 23, 2022 at 10:41 AM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > It may be related to the size of the stack. LC would have to load it all > into memory before checking the cards. Also, do the results change if you > lock messages? > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > On September 22, 2022 3:01:48 PM Geoff Canyon via use-livecode > wrote: > From gcanyon at gmail.com Fri Sep 23 18:43:45 2022 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2022 15:43:45 -0700 Subject: Weird performance issue In-Reply-To: <97d00205-4a08-f776-335f-584579364e3b@sonic.net> References: <1836b6fe9c0.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <97d00205-4a08-f776-335f-584579364e3b@sonic.net> Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 23, 2022 at 11:08 AM Mark Wieder via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 9/23/22 10:40, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > > It may be related to the size of the stack. LC would have to load it all > > into memory before checking the cards. Also, do the results change if > > you lock messages? > > You also do a *lot* of work on both opening the stack and opening the > card. And looping through that many times in your test. Your loop test > doesn't really simulate real-world conditions for Navigator, so I don't > think I'd worry about it too much. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com Why would the stack be opened, or the card, just checking existence? And why would that happen each time rather than once? FYI for all tests the stacks are already open. And: Navigator until the version I'm working on now did exactly this when getting a list of the card names I have no idea why I coded it that way, but checking that method vs. getting the number of cards and then getting the names based on that was what let me to notice this. thanks! gc From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Sep 23 19:43:00 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2022 18:43:00 -0500 Subject: Weird performance issue In-Reply-To: References: <1836b6fe9c0.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <97d00205-4a08-f776-335f-584579364e3b@sonic.net> Message-ID: <1836cbba3a0.27ee.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Are you familiar with the cardnames function? Letting the engine do it for you is always faster. That doesn't answer your question though. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On September 23, 2022 5:46:24 PM Geoff Canyon via use-livecode wrote: > On Fri, Sep 23, 2022 at 11:08 AM Mark Wieder via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> On 9/23/22 10:40, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >> > It may be related to the size of the stack. LC would have to load it all >> > into memory before checking the cards. Also, do the results change if >> > you lock messages? >> >> You also do a *lot* of work on both opening the stack and opening the >> card. And looping through that many times in your test. Your loop test >> doesn't really simulate real-world conditions for Navigator, so I don't >> think I'd worry about it too much. >> >> -- >> Mark Wieder >> ahsoftware at gmail.com > > > Why would the stack be opened, or the card, just checking existence? And > why would that happen each time rather than once? > > FYI for all tests the stacks are already open. > > And: Navigator until the version I'm working on now did exactly this when > getting a list of the card names I have no idea why I coded it that way, > but checking that method vs. getting the number of cards and then getting > the names based on that was what let me to notice this. > > thanks! > > gc > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri Sep 23 21:09:22 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2022 21:09:22 -0400 Subject: PolyGrid In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The docs in the dictionary may not be complete, yet. I filed a report about it, but I don't know if they're all done or not. On Fri, Sep 23, 2022 at 2:11 PM Tom Glod via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Thanks Klaus, > > Its strange that it didn't occur to me to check there, I assumed it was not > updated. :D > My bad. > Thanks. > > Tom > > On Fri, Sep 23, 2022 at 11:47 AM Klaus major-k via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > Hi Tom, > > > > > Am 23.09.2022 um 01:32 schrieb Tom Glod via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: > > > > > > Hello Folks, > > > > > > I'm wondering if there is any official documentation for the polygrid > and > > > polylist widgets. > > > Like a place that tells you what messages the grid listens to and etc. > > > Something in written form? > > > > yes, check the dictionary for PolyList and PolyGrid. > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > -- > > > Tom Glod > > > > Best > > > > Klaus > > > > -- > > Klaus Major > > https://www.major-k.de > > https://www.major-k.de/bass > > klaus at major-k.de > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From gcanyon at gmail.com Fri Sep 23 23:38:49 2022 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2022 20:38:49 -0700 Subject: Weird performance issue In-Reply-To: <1836cbba3a0.27ee.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <1836b6fe9c0.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <97d00205-4a08-f776-335f-584579364e3b@sonic.net> <1836cbba3a0.27ee.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Yep, I'm aware of cardnames. I don't have any memory of why I wrote it this way -- maybe I didn't trust the ordering of cardnames and cardids? Or maybe it made more sense to collect by hand than to stitch together the values? Or maybe I just sucked at that moment in time. gc On Fri, Sep 23, 2022 at 4:44 PM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Are you familiar with the cardnames function? Letting the engine do it for > you is always faster. That doesn't answer your question though. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > On September 23, 2022 5:46:24 PM Geoff Canyon via use-livecode > wrote: > > > On Fri, Sep 23, 2022 at 11:08 AM Mark Wieder via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > >> On 9/23/22 10:40, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > >> > It may be related to the size of the stack. LC would have to load it > all > >> > into memory before checking the cards. Also, do the results change if > >> > you lock messages? > >> > >> You also do a *lot* of work on both opening the stack and opening the > >> card. And looping through that many times in your test. Your loop test > >> doesn't really simulate real-world conditions for Navigator, so I don't > >> think I'd worry about it too much. > >> > >> -- > >> Mark Wieder > >> ahsoftware at gmail.com > > > > > > Why would the stack be opened, or the card, just checking existence? And > > why would that happen each time rather than once? > > > > FYI for all tests the stacks are already open. > > > > And: Navigator until the version I'm working on now did exactly this when > > getting a list of the card names I have no idea why I coded it that way, > > but checking that method vs. getting the number of cards and then getting > > the names based on that was what let me to notice this. > > > > thanks! > > > > gc > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From gcanyon at gmail.com Fri Sep 23 23:51:54 2022 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2022 20:51:54 -0700 Subject: Weird performance issue In-Reply-To: <1836cbba3a0.27ee.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <1836b6fe9c0.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <97d00205-4a08-f776-335f-584579364e3b@sonic.net> <1836cbba3a0.27ee.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 23, 2022 at 4:44 PM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Letting the engine do it for you is always faster. > Interestingly, *just* getting the names and ids for a 1500 card stack is only about 15 times faster using the functions rather than a loop that gets each individually. For my purposes I have to parse the results anyway, which reduces the ratio to about 6 times faster. Enough that I'll definitely rewrite the code, but less than I would have expected. From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sun Sep 25 12:41:07 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2022 12:41:07 -0400 Subject: Hacking LiveCode Message-ID: chasing all the things that aren't documented, but you need to know about LCB took me back into hacking liveCode. it's just getting started. if you have tools or pointers, the repo/wiki/issues/discussion are at https://github.com/macMikey/LC-HACK Project 1: extracting all properties of a widget (because "export" does not export the "base" LC object properties) and applying those properties to an updated version of the widget (because LC is releasing updates to the megabundle widgets almost weekly) Project 2: documenting the LC IDE API's? -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From paul at researchware.com Sun Sep 25 12:58:40 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2022 12:58:40 -0400 Subject: Hacking LiveCode In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9ec1d4e4-6704-7fa5-252f-6e6a65153a6d@researchware.com> On 9/25/2022 12:41 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > chasing all the things that aren't documented, but you need to know about > LCB took me back into hacking liveCode. > it's just getting started. if you have tools or pointers, the > repo/wiki/issues/discussion are at https://github.com/macMikey/LC-HACK > Project 1: extracting all properties of a widget (because "export" does not > export the "base" LC object properties) and applying those properties to an > updated version of the widget (because LC is releasing updates to the > megabundle widgets almost weekly) > Project 2: documenting the LC IDE API's? > A clarification please: Are you saying that if I have version 1.1.2 of PolyGrid (as an example) installed and I have made a stack using 1 or more Polygrids and I now download and install version 1.3.1 (or some newer version) of PolyGrid, that when I open my stack the PolyGrids in that stack do not update from 1.1.2 to 1.3.1? If so, this is a terrible disadvantage of any use of widgets. I feel I must be misunderstanding why exporting properties to re-apply them is needed for updates. From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sun Sep 25 14:11:28 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2022 14:11:28 -0400 Subject: Hacking LiveCode In-Reply-To: <9ec1d4e4-6704-7fa5-252f-6e6a65153a6d@researchware.com> References: <9ec1d4e4-6704-7fa5-252f-6e6a65153a6d@researchware.com> Message-ID: How's this: the expected behavior is not documented (as far as I can find), so I don't know what the expected behavior is. I have tested modifying a widget, rebuilding it, and re-adding it to LC. That does not seem to cause existing widgets to update. Is that a bug in my code, and am I doing something wrong that is leading me down this path? 100% absolutely, positively, maybe, and then I'm just chasing a phantom...again... I also don't think there is a documented way to see what version each widget is in a particular...widget, but I think we might be able to. We can certainly tell which version of a widget is installed in LC (bug report 23952, whose code is going to go into the hack repo, soon). If I am write, and it is not a bug in my code, then it absolutely is a disadvantage to using widgets...until this hack is complete. On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 12:59 PM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 9/25/2022 12:41 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > chasing all the things that aren't documented, but you need to know about > > LCB took me back into hacking liveCode. > > it's just getting started. if you have tools or pointers, the > > repo/wiki/issues/discussion are at https://github.com/macMikey/LC-HACK > > Project 1: extracting all properties of a widget (because "export" does > not > > export the "base" LC object properties) and applying those properties to > an > > updated version of the widget (because LC is releasing updates to the > > megabundle widgets almost weekly) > > Project 2: documenting the LC IDE API's? > > > > A clarification please: Are you saying that if I have version 1.1.2 of > PolyGrid (as an example) installed and I have made a stack using 1 or > more Polygrids and I now download and install version 1.3.1 (or some > newer version) of PolyGrid, that when I open my stack the PolyGrids in > that stack do not update from 1.1.2 to 1.3.1? > > If so, this is a terrible disadvantage of any use of widgets. I feel I > must be misunderstanding why exporting properties to re-apply them is > needed for updates. > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sun Sep 25 14:28:37 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2022 14:28:37 -0400 Subject: Hacking LiveCode In-Reply-To: References: <9ec1d4e4-6704-7fa5-252f-6e6a65153a6d@researchware.com> Message-ID: and it is also 100% possible that there is something that can happen during the building/testing/installing process that would explain the behavior i have seen, but without knowing the expected behavior... On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 2:11 PM Mike Kerner wrote: > How's this: the expected behavior is not documented (as far as I can > find), so I don't know what the expected behavior is. I have tested > modifying a widget, rebuilding it, and re-adding it to LC. That does not > seem to cause existing widgets to update. Is that a bug in my code, and am > I doing something wrong that is leading me down this path? 100% absolutely, > positively, maybe, and then I'm just chasing a phantom...again... > I also don't think there is a documented way to see what version each > widget is in a particular...widget, but I think we might be able to. We can > certainly tell which version of a widget is installed in LC (bug report > 23952, whose code is going to go into the hack repo, soon). > > If I am write, and it is not a bug in my code, then it absolutely is a > disadvantage to using widgets...until this hack is complete. > > On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 12:59 PM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> On 9/25/2022 12:41 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: >> > chasing all the things that aren't documented, but you need to know >> about >> > LCB took me back into hacking liveCode. >> > it's just getting started. if you have tools or pointers, the >> > repo/wiki/issues/discussion are at https://github.com/macMikey/LC-HACK >> > Project 1: extracting all properties of a widget (because "export" does >> not >> > export the "base" LC object properties) and applying those properties >> to an >> > updated version of the widget (because LC is releasing updates to the >> > megabundle widgets almost weekly) >> > Project 2: documenting the LC IDE API's? >> > >> >> A clarification please: Are you saying that if I have version 1.1.2 of >> PolyGrid (as an example) installed and I have made a stack using 1 or >> more Polygrids and I now download and install version 1.3.1 (or some >> newer version) of PolyGrid, that when I open my stack the PolyGrids in >> that stack do not update from 1.1.2 to 1.3.1? >> >> If so, this is a terrible disadvantage of any use of widgets. I feel I >> must be misunderstanding why exporting properties to re-apply them is >> needed for updates. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sun Sep 25 15:07:26 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2022 15:07:26 -0400 Subject: Hacking LiveCode In-Reply-To: References: <9ec1d4e4-6704-7fa5-252f-6e6a65153a6d@researchware.com> Message-ID: i just re-tested this, and came up with the opposite result (modifying the widget and rebuilding it causes existing copies to behave the new way). So, it's time to come up with a recipe for one versus the other... welcome to the weeds... On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 2:28 PM Mike Kerner wrote: > and it is also 100% possible that there is something that can happen > during the building/testing/installing process that would explain the > behavior i have seen, but without knowing the expected behavior... > > On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 2:11 PM Mike Kerner > wrote: > >> How's this: the expected behavior is not documented (as far as I can >> find), so I don't know what the expected behavior is. I have tested >> modifying a widget, rebuilding it, and re-adding it to LC. That does not >> seem to cause existing widgets to update. Is that a bug in my code, and am >> I doing something wrong that is leading me down this path? 100% absolutely, >> positively, maybe, and then I'm just chasing a phantom...again... >> I also don't think there is a documented way to see what version each >> widget is in a particular...widget, but I think we might be able to. We can >> certainly tell which version of a widget is installed in LC (bug report >> 23952, whose code is going to go into the hack repo, soon). >> >> If I am write, and it is not a bug in my code, then it absolutely is a >> disadvantage to using widgets...until this hack is complete. >> >> On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 12:59 PM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>> On 9/25/2022 12:41 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: >>> > chasing all the things that aren't documented, but you need to know >>> about >>> > LCB took me back into hacking liveCode. >>> > it's just getting started. if you have tools or pointers, the >>> > repo/wiki/issues/discussion are at https://github.com/macMikey/LC-HACK >>> > Project 1: extracting all properties of a widget (because "export" >>> does not >>> > export the "base" LC object properties) and applying those properties >>> to an >>> > updated version of the widget (because LC is releasing updates to the >>> > megabundle widgets almost weekly) >>> > Project 2: documenting the LC IDE API's? >>> > >>> >>> A clarification please: Are you saying that if I have version 1.1.2 of >>> PolyGrid (as an example) installed and I have made a stack using 1 or >>> more Polygrids and I now download and install version 1.3.1 (or some >>> newer version) of PolyGrid, that when I open my stack the PolyGrids in >>> that stack do not update from 1.1.2 to 1.3.1? >>> >>> If so, this is a terrible disadvantage of any use of widgets. I feel I >>> must be misunderstanding why exporting properties to re-apply them is >>> needed for updates. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> >> -- >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >> On the second day, God created the oceans. >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> and did a little diving. >> And God said, "This is good." >> > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From brian at milby7.com Sun Sep 25 15:49:28 2022 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2022 15:49:28 -0400 Subject: Hacking LiveCode In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9D653FFE-B917-4E63-8241-F94EE3C9E877@milby7.com> The widgets are identified by the reverse dns name. As long as that name does not change, LC will use whichever version is currently installed in the IDE. The issue is that you can’t take the LC version of a widget and then build your own version with a new name and have the settings easily come over. I think this export issue should really be thought of as a bug. When a widget is exported it pulls the widget settings from the widget and ignores the standard ones. The engine has to serialize the data when it saves the stack so it should not be a huge issue to fix. Brian Milby brian at milby7.com > On Sep 25, 2022, at 3:09 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > i just re-tested this, and came up with the opposite result (modifying the > widget and rebuilding it causes existing copies to behave the new way). So, > it's time to come up with a recipe for one versus the other... > welcome to the weeds... > >> On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 2:28 PM Mike Kerner >> wrote: >> >> and it is also 100% possible that there is something that can happen >> during the building/testing/installing process that would explain the >> behavior i have seen, but without knowing the expected behavior... >> >> On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 2:11 PM Mike Kerner >> wrote: >> >>> How's this: the expected behavior is not documented (as far as I can >>> find), so I don't know what the expected behavior is. I have tested >>> modifying a widget, rebuilding it, and re-adding it to LC. That does not >>> seem to cause existing widgets to update. Is that a bug in my code, and am >>> I doing something wrong that is leading me down this path? 100% absolutely, >>> positively, maybe, and then I'm just chasing a phantom...again... >>> I also don't think there is a documented way to see what version each >>> widget is in a particular...widget, but I think we might be able to. We can >>> certainly tell which version of a widget is installed in LC (bug report >>> 23952, whose code is going to go into the hack repo, soon). >>> >>> If I am write, and it is not a bug in my code, then it absolutely is a >>> disadvantage to using widgets...until this hack is complete. >>> >>> On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 12:59 PM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>>> On 9/25/2022 12:41 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: >>>>> chasing all the things that aren't documented, but you need to know >>>> about >>>>> LCB took me back into hacking liveCode. >>>>> it's just getting started. if you have tools or pointers, the >>>>> repo/wiki/issues/discussion are at https://github.com/macMikey/LC-HACK >>>>> Project 1: extracting all properties of a widget (because "export" >>>> does not >>>>> export the "base" LC object properties) and applying those properties >>>> to an >>>>> updated version of the widget (because LC is releasing updates to the >>>>> megabundle widgets almost weekly) >>>>> Project 2: documenting the LC IDE API's? >>>>> >>>> >>>> A clarification please: Are you saying that if I have version 1.1.2 of >>>> PolyGrid (as an example) installed and I have made a stack using 1 or >>>> more Polygrids and I now download and install version 1.3.1 (or some >>>> newer version) of PolyGrid, that when I open my stack the PolyGrids in >>>> that stack do not update from 1.1.2 to 1.3.1? >>>> >>>> If so, this is a terrible disadvantage of any use of widgets. I feel I >>>> must be misunderstanding why exporting properties to re-apply them is >>>> needed for updates. >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >>> On the second day, God created the oceans. >>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >>> and did a little diving. >>> And God said, "This is good." >>> >> >> >> -- >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >> On the second day, God created the oceans. >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> and did a little diving. >> And God said, "This is good." >> > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sun Sep 25 16:51:42 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2022 16:51:42 -0400 Subject: Hacking LiveCode In-Reply-To: <9D653FFE-B917-4E63-8241-F94EE3C9E877@milby7.com> References: <9D653FFE-B917-4E63-8241-F94EE3C9E877@milby7.com> Message-ID: 1. is that documented, somewhere, because i cannot find it. 2. that isn't the problem i was having. the problem i was having was that if i took a widget (navRad, for instance), and added code to it, then installed the new version, preexisting copies of the widget would not execute the new code. new copies would. so, it's 100% possible that i discovered some other behavior, but after testing it a few times, instead of documenting the recipe, i accepted that this was the behavior, and went about addressing it. except, today, when i tested it, the behavior is the one that you would want (in unbuilt apps, behaviors in newer versions of the widget are reflected in existing copies of the widget). so i have to go replicate the behavior, again and develop a recipe, again. 3. fortunately or not, chasing this particular bear for days has resulted in a snippet in the hack repo which i hope extracts all properties for an object, standard or specific. On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 3:50 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > The widgets are identified by the reverse dns name. As long as that name > does not change, LC will use whichever version is currently installed in > the IDE. The issue is that you can’t take the LC version of a widget and > then build your own version with a new name and have the settings easily > come over. I think this export issue should really be thought of as a > bug. When a widget is exported it pulls the widget settings from the > widget and ignores the standard ones. The engine has to serialize the data > when it saves the stack so it should not be a huge issue to fix. > > Brian Milby > brian at milby7.com > > > On Sep 25, 2022, at 3:09 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > i just re-tested this, and came up with the opposite result (modifying > the > > widget and rebuilding it causes existing copies to behave the new way). > So, > > it's time to come up with a recipe for one versus the other... > > welcome to the weeds... > > > >> On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 2:28 PM Mike Kerner > >> wrote: > >> > >> and it is also 100% possible that there is something that can happen > >> during the building/testing/installing process that would explain the > >> behavior i have seen, but without knowing the expected behavior... > >> > >> On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 2:11 PM Mike Kerner > >> wrote: > >> > >>> How's this: the expected behavior is not documented (as far as I can > >>> find), so I don't know what the expected behavior is. I have tested > >>> modifying a widget, rebuilding it, and re-adding it to LC. That does > not > >>> seem to cause existing widgets to update. Is that a bug in my code, > and am > >>> I doing something wrong that is leading me down this path? 100% > absolutely, > >>> positively, maybe, and then I'm just chasing a phantom...again... > >>> I also don't think there is a documented way to see what version each > >>> widget is in a particular...widget, but I think we might be able to. > We can > >>> certainly tell which version of a widget is installed in LC (bug report > >>> 23952, whose code is going to go into the hack repo, soon). > >>> > >>> If I am write, and it is not a bug in my code, then it absolutely is a > >>> disadvantage to using widgets...until this hack is complete. > >>> > >>> On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 12:59 PM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >>> > >>>> On 9/25/2022 12:41 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > >>>>> chasing all the things that aren't documented, but you need to know > >>>> about > >>>>> LCB took me back into hacking liveCode. > >>>>> it's just getting started. if you have tools or pointers, the > >>>>> repo/wiki/issues/discussion are at > https://github.com/macMikey/LC-HACK > >>>>> Project 1: extracting all properties of a widget (because "export" > >>>> does not > >>>>> export the "base" LC object properties) and applying those properties > >>>> to an > >>>>> updated version of the widget (because LC is releasing updates to the > >>>>> megabundle widgets almost weekly) > >>>>> Project 2: documenting the LC IDE API's? > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> A clarification please: Are you saying that if I have version 1.1.2 of > >>>> PolyGrid (as an example) installed and I have made a stack using 1 or > >>>> more Polygrids and I now download and install version 1.3.1 (or some > >>>> newer version) of PolyGrid, that when I open my stack the PolyGrids in > >>>> that stack do not update from 1.1.2 to 1.3.1? > >>>> > >>>> If so, this is a terrible disadvantage of any use of widgets. I feel I > >>>> must be misunderstanding why exporting properties to re-apply them is > >>>> needed for updates. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> use-livecode mailing list > >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>>> subscription preferences: > >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > >>> On the second day, God created the oceans. > >>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > >>> and did a little diving. > >>> And God said, "This is good." > >>> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > >> On the second day, God created the oceans. > >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > >> and did a little diving. > >> And God said, "This is good." > >> > > > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From alex at tweedly.net Sun Sep 25 16:54:58 2022 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2022 21:54:58 +0100 Subject: Charts widget. Message-ID: <62253d2d-a416-a334-ccec-acd5fa3d9176@tweedly.net> Anyone using this widget ? Is there some documentation (other than the obvious dictionary entries) about how to do different kinds of chart ? In the last 4-6 months, I've done 3 or 4 little personal projects where I wanted to create a chart, but I've not been able to figure out how to use the charts widget to do time-based charts. What I mean is, e.g., create a chart for the following data .... 2022-02-01    100 2022-02-04    500 2022-02-05    525 2022-02-17    900 .... Obviously, the dates along the X-axis should be spaced properly according to their data value, not equally spaced and simply labelled. Looking at the charts.js documentation, it tells me (or rather, fails to tell me, since I can't understand it) that I need to define an 'adapter' and shows some sample javascript. I don't really understand how to do it simply in javascript - far less how I could use that in the widget. Can anyone give me a clue or a pointer ? Many thanks, Alex. P.S. currently I solved it using my own GraphMaker library (see LC conference from 2018) - but I'd really like to retire that library in favour of the new widget. From brian at milby7.com Sun Sep 25 17:07:36 2022 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2022 17:07:36 -0400 Subject: Hacking LiveCode In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Did you restart LiveCode after installing the updated widget? Brian Milby brian at milby7.com > On Sep 25, 2022, at 4:53 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > 1. is that documented, somewhere, because i cannot find it. > 2. that isn't the problem i was having. the problem i was having was that > if i took a widget (navRad, for instance), and added code to it, then > installed the new version, preexisting copies of the widget would not > execute the new code. new copies would. > so, it's 100% possible that i discovered some other behavior, but after > testing it a few times, instead of documenting the recipe, i accepted that > this was the behavior, and went about addressing it. except, today, when i > tested it, the behavior is the one that you would want (in unbuilt apps, > behaviors in newer versions of the widget are reflected in existing copies > of the widget). so i have to go replicate the behavior, again and develop a > recipe, again. > 3. fortunately or not, chasing this particular bear for days has resulted > in a snippet in the hack repo which i hope extracts all properties for an > object, standard or specific. From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sun Sep 25 17:57:33 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2022 17:57:33 -0400 Subject: Hacking LiveCode In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: that's one of the things i'm wondering about, like "did you uninstall it, or just unload it, or did you uninstall it but not unload it? did you build a new version in the test environment and test that against an existing install?" it's been days since i ran into this, and the only notes that i have on it are that i ran into it. i didn't keep track of the recipe. On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 5:08 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Did you restart LiveCode after installing the updated widget? > > Brian Milby > brian at milby7.com > > > On Sep 25, 2022, at 4:53 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > 1. is that documented, somewhere, because i cannot find it. > > 2. that isn't the problem i was having. the problem i was having was that > > if i took a widget (navRad, for instance), and added code to it, then > > installed the new version, preexisting copies of the widget would not > > execute the new code. new copies would. > > so, it's 100% possible that i discovered some other behavior, but after > > testing it a few times, instead of documenting the recipe, i accepted > that > > this was the behavior, and went about addressing it. except, today, when > i > > tested it, the behavior is the one that you would want (in unbuilt apps, > > behaviors in newer versions of the widget are reflected in existing > copies > > of the widget). so i have to go replicate the behavior, again and > develop a > > recipe, again. > > 3. fortunately or not, chasing this particular bear for days has resulted > > in a snippet in the hack repo which i hope extracts all properties for an > > object, standard or specific. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sun Sep 25 18:21:54 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2022 18:21:54 -0400 Subject: Charts widget. In-Reply-To: <62253d2d-a416-a334-ccec-acd5fa3d9176@tweedly.net> References: <62253d2d-a416-a334-ccec-acd5fa3d9176@tweedly.net> Message-ID: do you mean the graph widget? if that's what you mean, then... sorry this isn't more helpful, but to get you started, the graph.lcb file is in Tools/Extensions/com.livecode.widget.linegraph, if you want to try reading through it. it's only 1300 lines, total, including the docs. there is not that much going on. there are no private properties that i can see. On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 4:55 PM Alex Tweedly via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Anyone using this widget ? > > Is there some documentation (other than the obvious dictionary entries) > about how to do different kinds of chart ? > > In the last 4-6 months, I've done 3 or 4 little personal projects where > I wanted to create a chart, but I've not been able to figure out how to > use the charts widget to do time-based charts. > > What I mean is, e.g., create a chart for the following data .... > > 2022-02-01 100 > 2022-02-04 500 > 2022-02-05 525 > 2022-02-17 900 > .... > > Obviously, the dates along the X-axis should be spaced properly > according to their data value, not equally spaced and simply labelled. > > Looking at the charts.js documentation, it tells me (or rather, fails to > tell me, since I can't understand it) that I need to define an 'adapter' > and shows some sample javascript. I don't really understand how to do it > simply in javascript - far less how I could use that in the widget. > > Can anyone give me a clue or a pointer ? > > Many thanks, > > Alex. > > P.S. currently I solved it using my own GraphMaker library (see LC > conference from 2018) - but I'd really like to retire that library in > favour of the new widget. > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From stephen at barncard.com Sun Sep 25 18:45:57 2022 From: stephen at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2022 15:45:57 -0700 Subject: disk mounted (appleevent?) Message-ID: Hello everyone.... Yes, I'm still here! Is there a way to capture the mounting of a CD or DVD? Other than the cheesy "polling" for a disk to appear? I can't find this in the docs. Maybe not possible. Thanks in advance, sqb -- Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA - mixstream.org From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sun Sep 25 19:58:16 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2022 19:58:16 -0400 Subject: disk mounted (appleevent?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: or maybe there's an event that the os throws that can be captured... On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 6:47 PM Stephen Barncard via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hello everyone.... > > Yes, I'm still here! > > Is there a way to capture the mounting of a CD or DVD? > Other than the cheesy "polling" for a disk to appear? > I can't find this in the docs. Maybe not possible. > > Thanks in advance, sqb > -- > Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA - > mixstream.org > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Mon Sep 26 15:46:08 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 15:46:08 -0400 Subject: one field to rule them all Message-ID: does anyone know why we don't have a single field widget? i am just dipping a toe in the android waters, so do the mobilecontrol commands not work in android? the dictionary seems to say that they do. -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Sep 26 16:21:51 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 15:21:51 -0500 Subject: one field to rule them all In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1837b768f18.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> There's a native Android field, and the mobile commands also work. I usually use the commands because they offer a bit more control than the widget. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On September 26, 2022 2:48:59 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > does anyone know why we don't have a single field widget? > i am just dipping a toe in the android waters, so do the mobilecontrol > commands not work in android? the dictionary seems to say that they do. > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Mon Sep 26 16:35:14 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 16:35:14 -0400 Subject: one field to rule them all In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Is there any advantage to using the android widget vs. creating them with the commands? I'd like to make the ios and android versions of this app as close as possible, since there's already going to be a tablet and a phone version. I just wonder why all the field widgets weren't all combined into a single widget. You've got the commands to build something by hand, the android widget, the mac widget, and several field objects. I can understand having various objects if you have a situation like you do with the field objects, where the settings are different because the use-cases are different. On Mon, Sep 26, 2022 at 3:46 PM Mike Kerner wrote: > does anyone know why we don't have a single field widget? > i am just dipping a toe in the android waters, so do the mobilecontrol > commands not work in android? the dictionary seems to say that they do. > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From alex at tweedly.net Mon Sep 26 16:54:18 2022 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 21:54:18 +0100 Subject: Charts widget. In-Reply-To: References: <62253d2d-a416-a334-ccec-acd5fa3d9176@tweedly.net> Message-ID: No, I mean the chart widget (chart - not charts, my mistake). The graph (or linegraph) widget - com.livecode.widget.linegraph - does simple line graphs only. The chart widget - com.livecode.widget.chart - can do everything you ever imagined a chart could do, and more. (*) > The Chart widget is a wrapper forChart.js v3.7.0 > in LiveCode. It allows you to create > beautiful and highly customizable charts, in a simple way. Data can be > displayed as a line graph, bar chart, radar chart, donut/pie chart, > polar chart, bubble chart or scatter plot. It really is wonderful - all kinds of charts, very fast, animations, etc. The only drawback I've found so far is that doing time sequence or date sequence charts needs some extra magic, and I don't know how to find that magic. Thanks for the suggestion of reading the .lcb; I probably couldn't have made sense of it anyway - but there is no .lcb file for the chart widget. It's just my bad luck that all the charts I want to do are the kind that is beyond me :-) Alex. (*) not quite true, I don't think it can do the complex time + bubble animations that Hans Rosling uses to such amazing effect - https://singularityhub.com/2010/12/09/hans-rosling-shows-you-200-years-of-global-growth-in-4-minutes-video/ On 25/09/2022 23:21, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > do you mean the graph widget? > if that's what you mean, then... > sorry this isn't more helpful, but to get you started, the graph.lcb file > is in Tools/Extensions/com.livecode.widget.linegraph, if you want to try > reading through it. > it's only 1300 lines, total, including the docs. there is not that much > going on. > there are no private properties that i can see. > > On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 4:55 PM Alex Tweedly via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Anyone using this widget ? >> >> Is there some documentation (other than the obvious dictionary entries) >> about how to do different kinds of chart ? >> >> In the last 4-6 months, I've done 3 or 4 little personal projects where >> I wanted to create a chart, but I've not been able to figure out how to >> use the charts widget to do time-based charts. >> >> What I mean is, e.g., create a chart for the following data .... >> >> 2022-02-01 100 >> 2022-02-04 500 >> 2022-02-05 525 >> 2022-02-17 900 >> .... >> >> Obviously, the dates along the X-axis should be spaced properly >> according to their data value, not equally spaced and simply labelled. >> >> Looking at the charts.js documentation, it tells me (or rather, fails to >> tell me, since I can't understand it) that I need to define an 'adapter' >> and shows some sample javascript. I don't really understand how to do it >> simply in javascript - far less how I could use that in the widget. >> >> Can anyone give me a clue or a pointer ? >> >> Many thanks, >> >> Alex. >> >> P.S. currently I solved it using my own GraphMaker library (see LC >> conference from 2018) - but I'd really like to retire that library in >> favour of the new widget. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > From paul at researchware.com Mon Sep 26 17:08:20 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 17:08:20 -0400 Subject: Charts widget. In-Reply-To: References: <62253d2d-a416-a334-ccec-acd5fa3d9176@tweedly.net> Message-ID: Where the heck is the chart widget (com.livecode.widget.chart)? It is not among the widgets in LC 9.6.8 or added by the Summer Bundle? Is it from LC or a 3rd party? If so from where? From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Mon Sep 26 17:11:28 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 17:11:28 -0400 Subject: Charts widget. In-Reply-To: References: <62253d2d-a416-a334-ccec-acd5fa3d9176@tweedly.net> Message-ID: well, i learned something new. i don't even see that widget in 9, but i do in 10. On Mon, Sep 26, 2022 at 4:54 PM Alex Tweedly via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > No, I mean the chart widget (chart - not charts, my mistake). > > The graph (or linegraph) widget - com.livecode.widget.linegraph - does > simple line graphs only. > > The chart widget - com.livecode.widget.chart - can do everything you > ever imagined a chart could do, and more. (*) > > > The Chart widget is a wrapper forChart.js v3.7.0 > > in LiveCode. It allows you to create > > beautiful and highly customizable charts, in a simple way. Data can be > > displayed as a line graph, bar chart, radar chart, donut/pie chart, > > polar chart, bubble chart or scatter plot. > It really is wonderful - all kinds of charts, very fast, animations, > etc. The only drawback I've found so far is that doing time sequence or > date sequence charts needs some extra magic, and I don't know how to > find that magic. > > Thanks for the suggestion of reading the .lcb; I probably couldn't have > made sense of it anyway - but there is no .lcb file for the chart widget. > > It's just my bad luck that all the charts I want to do are the kind that > is beyond me :-) > > Alex. > > (*) not quite true, I don't think it can do the complex time + bubble > animations that Hans Rosling uses to such amazing effect - > > https://singularityhub.com/2010/12/09/hans-rosling-shows-you-200-years-of-global-growth-in-4-minutes-video/ > > On 25/09/2022 23:21, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > do you mean the graph widget? > > if that's what you mean, then... > > sorry this isn't more helpful, but to get you started, the graph.lcb file > > is in Tools/Extensions/com.livecode.widget.linegraph, if you want to try > > reading through it. > > it's only 1300 lines, total, including the docs. there is not that much > > going on. > > there are no private properties that i can see. > > > > On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 4:55 PM Alex Tweedly via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > >> Anyone using this widget ? > >> > >> Is there some documentation (other than the obvious dictionary entries) > >> about how to do different kinds of chart ? > >> > >> In the last 4-6 months, I've done 3 or 4 little personal projects where > >> I wanted to create a chart, but I've not been able to figure out how to > >> use the charts widget to do time-based charts. > >> > >> What I mean is, e.g., create a chart for the following data .... > >> > >> 2022-02-01 100 > >> 2022-02-04 500 > >> 2022-02-05 525 > >> 2022-02-17 900 > >> .... > >> > >> Obviously, the dates along the X-axis should be spaced properly > >> according to their data value, not equally spaced and simply labelled. > >> > >> Looking at the charts.js documentation, it tells me (or rather, fails to > >> tell me, since I can't understand it) that I need to define an 'adapter' > >> and shows some sample javascript. I don't really understand how to do it > >> simply in javascript - far less how I could use that in the widget. > >> > >> Can anyone give me a clue or a pointer ? > >> > >> Many thanks, > >> > >> Alex. > >> > >> P.S. currently I solved it using my own GraphMaker library (see LC > >> conference from 2018) - but I'd really like to retire that library in > >> favour of the new widget. > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From paul at researchware.com Mon Sep 26 17:26:05 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 17:26:05 -0400 Subject: Charts widget. In-Reply-To: References: <62253d2d-a416-a334-ccec-acd5fa3d9176@tweedly.net> Message-ID: Yes, I see it in LC10.0.0dp4. It must be a new widget for LC10, possibly only working in LC10 and not earlier versions? Thank you for directing me to 10. On 9/26/2022 5:11 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > well, i learned something new. > i don't even see that widget in 9, but i do in 10. > > On Mon, Sep 26, 2022 at 4:54 PM Alex Tweedly via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> No, I mean the chart widget (chart - not charts, my mistake). >> >> The graph (or linegraph) widget - com.livecode.widget.linegraph - does >> simple line graphs only. >> >> The chart widget - com.livecode.widget.chart - can do everything you >> ever imagined a chart could do, and more. (*) >> >>> The Chart widget is a wrapper forChart.js v3.7.0 >>> in LiveCode. It allows you to create >>> beautiful and highly customizable charts, in a simple way. Data can be >>> displayed as a line graph, bar chart, radar chart, donut/pie chart, >>> polar chart, bubble chart or scatter plot. >> It really is wonderful - all kinds of charts, very fast, animations, >> etc. The only drawback I've found so far is that doing time sequence or >> date sequence charts needs some extra magic, and I don't know how to >> find that magic. >> >> Thanks for the suggestion of reading the .lcb; I probably couldn't have >> made sense of it anyway - but there is no .lcb file for the chart widget. >> >> It's just my bad luck that all the charts I want to do are the kind that >> is beyond me :-) >> >> Alex. >> >> (*) not quite true, I don't think it can do the complex time + bubble >> animations that Hans Rosling uses to such amazing effect - >> >> https://singularityhub.com/2010/12/09/hans-rosling-shows-you-200-years-of-global-growth-in-4-minutes-video/ >> >> On 25/09/2022 23:21, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: >>> do you mean the graph widget? >>> if that's what you mean, then... >>> sorry this isn't more helpful, but to get you started, the graph.lcb file >>> is in Tools/Extensions/com.livecode.widget.linegraph, if you want to try >>> reading through it. >>> it's only 1300 lines, total, including the docs. there is not that much >>> going on. >>> there are no private properties that i can see. >>> >>> On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 4:55 PM Alex Tweedly via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Anyone using this widget ? >>>> >>>> Is there some documentation (other than the obvious dictionary entries) >>>> about how to do different kinds of chart ? >>>> >>>> In the last 4-6 months, I've done 3 or 4 little personal projects where >>>> I wanted to create a chart, but I've not been able to figure out how to >>>> use the charts widget to do time-based charts. >>>> >>>> What I mean is, e.g., create a chart for the following data .... >>>> >>>> 2022-02-01 100 >>>> 2022-02-04 500 >>>> 2022-02-05 525 >>>> 2022-02-17 900 >>>> .... >>>> >>>> Obviously, the dates along the X-axis should be spaced properly >>>> according to their data value, not equally spaced and simply labelled. >>>> >>>> Looking at the charts.js documentation, it tells me (or rather, fails to >>>> tell me, since I can't understand it) that I need to define an 'adapter' >>>> and shows some sample javascript. I don't really understand how to do it >>>> simply in javascript - far less how I could use that in the widget. >>>> >>>> Can anyone give me a clue or a pointer ? >>>> >>>> Many thanks, >>>> >>>> Alex. >>>> >>>> P.S. currently I solved it using my own GraphMaker library (see LC >>>> conference from 2018) - but I'd really like to retire that library in >>>> favour of the new widget. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > From alex at tweedly.net Mon Sep 26 19:09:29 2022 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2022 00:09:29 +0100 Subject: Charts widget. In-Reply-To: References: <62253d2d-a416-a334-ccec-acd5fa3d9176@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <6693b5fb-6e6f-1d34-1dda-3c7ff6b7d57c@tweedly.net> Yes, first appeared in 10..0DP2 https://livecode.com/livecode-10-dp-2-charts-guidelines-web-browser-widget-and-more/ Alex. On 26/09/2022 22:26, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > Yes, I see it in LC10.0.0dp4. It must be a new widget for LC10, > possibly only working in LC10 and not earlier versions? > > Thank you for directing me to 10. > > > On 9/26/2022 5:11 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: >> well, i learned something new. >> i don't even see that widget in 9, but i do in 10. >> >> On Mon, Sep 26, 2022 at 4:54 PM Alex Tweedly via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>> No, I mean the chart widget (chart - not charts, my mistake). >>> >>> The graph (or linegraph) widget - com.livecode.widget.linegraph - does >>> simple line graphs only. >>> >>> The chart widget - com.livecode.widget.chart - can do everything you >>> ever imagined a chart could do, and more. (*) >>> >>>> The Chart widget is a wrapper forChart.js v3.7.0 >>>> in LiveCode. It allows you to create >>>> beautiful and highly customizable charts, in a simple way. Data can be >>>> displayed as a line graph, bar chart, radar chart, donut/pie chart, >>>> polar chart, bubble chart or scatter plot. >>> It really is wonderful - all kinds of charts, very fast, animations, >>> etc. The only drawback I've found so far is that doing time sequence or >>> date sequence charts needs some extra magic, and I don't know how to >>> find that magic. >>> >>> Thanks for the suggestion of reading the .lcb; I probably couldn't have >>> made sense of it anyway - but there is no .lcb file for the chart >>> widget. >>> >>> It's just my bad luck that all the charts I want to do are the kind >>> that >>> is beyond me :-) >>> >>> Alex. >>> >>> (*) not quite true, I don't think it can do the complex time + bubble >>> animations that Hans Rosling uses to such amazing effect - >>> >>> https://singularityhub.com/2010/12/09/hans-rosling-shows-you-200-years-of-global-growth-in-4-minutes-video/ >>> >>> >>> On 25/09/2022 23:21, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: >>>> do you mean the graph widget? >>>> if that's what you mean, then... >>>> sorry this isn't more helpful, but to get you started, the >>>> graph.lcb file >>>> is in Tools/Extensions/com.livecode.widget.linegraph, if you want >>>> to try >>>> reading through it. >>>> it's only 1300 lines, total, including the docs. there is not that >>>> much >>>> going on. >>>> there are no private properties that i can see. >>>> >>>> On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 4:55 PM Alex Tweedly via use-livecode < >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Anyone using this widget ? >>>>> >>>>> Is there some documentation (other than the obvious dictionary >>>>> entries) >>>>> about how to do different kinds of chart ? >>>>> >>>>> In the last 4-6 months, I've done 3 or 4 little personal projects >>>>> where >>>>> I wanted to create a chart, but I've not been able to figure out >>>>> how to >>>>> use the charts widget to do time-based charts. >>>>> >>>>> What I mean is, e.g., create a chart for the following data .... >>>>> >>>>> 2022-02-01    100 >>>>> 2022-02-04    500 >>>>> 2022-02-05    525 >>>>> 2022-02-17    900 >>>>> .... >>>>> >>>>> Obviously, the dates along the X-axis should be spaced properly >>>>> according to their data value, not equally spaced and simply >>>>> labelled. >>>>> >>>>> Looking at the charts.js documentation, it tells me (or rather, >>>>> fails to >>>>> tell me, since I can't understand it) that I need to define an >>>>> 'adapter' >>>>> and shows some sample javascript. I don't really understand how to >>>>> do it >>>>> simply in javascript - far less how I could use that in the widget. >>>>> >>>>> Can anyone give me a clue or a pointer ? >>>>> >>>>> Many thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Alex. >>>>> >>>>> P.S. currently I solved it using my own GraphMaker library (see LC >>>>> conference from 2018) - but I'd really like to retire that library in >>>>> favour of the new widget. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dan at clearvisiontech.com Mon Sep 26 20:48:51 2022 From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2022 00:48:51 +0000 Subject: Images in Push Messages Message-ID: We're trying to add images to push messages. Can't seem to get it to work (starting with Android first). Anyone have any knowledge on this? I wouldn't think so, but Is there something I have to set in the LC app? Any guidance anyone might have would be appreciated! -Dan From benr_mc at cogapp.com Tue Sep 27 06:22:23 2022 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2022 11:22:23 +0100 Subject: Ignoring accented characters In-Reply-To: <438ffe4e04dfebdc0411bdfede465504@souslelogo.com> References: <438ffe4e04dfebdc0411bdfede465504@souslelogo.com> Message-ID: <0d81046e-7e99-3f58-7bdc-be9beceabfd8@cogapp.com> Hi jbv, This one of a number of gaps that exist in the jungle of character processing in LiveCode. I don't think there is a 'diacriticSensitive' property. Some part of LiveCode are clever about accents, see e.g. https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15312 https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15443 As you note, it would be useful if there was a built-in function to strip diacritics, which has been requested (for 14 years now): https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=6450 One trick that can be used in some contexts is to put the text into a field, retrieve the htmlText of the fields - which encodes many accented characters as entity names - and reduce these entity names back to the unaccented character. There's also an enhancement request (pending for over 18 years) to expose this functionality without the need to use a field - useful for many purposes, not just for stripping accents: https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1372 This especially ought to be a cheap enhancement, since LC evidently incorporates the necessary tables already. Putting text through html entities is not a perfect solution to implementing a "stripDiacritics" function, because e.g. you might render "—" as "m"; but as far as I know, currently it's either that or encode your own tables. Ben On 16/09/2022 15:10, jbv via use-livecode wrote: > Hi list, > > Is there a way to ignore accented characters in LC, like in mySQL > for instance ? > Here's an example : I need these 2 array items below to be considered > as 1 single entity : >   add 1 to myArray["interprtation"] >   add 1 to myArray["interpretation"] > > Of course, I can write a function that removes accents, but I was > wondering if there was a built-in function in LC to do that, in a > similar logic as "set the casesentive to false" for instance. > > Thanks you in advance. > jbv > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From merakosp at gmail.com Tue Sep 27 07:44:35 2022 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis m) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2022 14:44:35 +0300 Subject: Images in Push Messages In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Dan, Have you provided a "Status Bar Icon" in the Android standalone settings? If yes, what icons have you tried? I think colored icons are no longer allowed, in recent Android versions. The icons have to be png images, and they need to be white on black or transparent only, otherwise they display as a gray square area. You can check some samples on the web, e.g. here: https://romannurik.github.io/AndroidAssetStudio/icons-notification.html#source.type=clipart&source.clipart=place&source.space.trim=1&source.space.pad=0&name=ic_stat_place Hope this helps. Please let us know if this works for you. Kind regards, Panos On Tue, 27 Sept 2022 at 03:50, Dan Friedman via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > We're trying to add images to push messages. Can't seem to get it to work > (starting with Android first). Anyone have any knowledge on this? I > wouldn't think so, but Is there something I have to set in the LC app? > Any guidance anyone might have would be appreciated! > > -Dan > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From jbv at souslelogo.com Tue Sep 27 11:00:55 2022 From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2022 11:00:55 -0400 Subject: Ignoring accented characters In-Reply-To: <0d81046e-7e99-3f58-7bdc-be9beceabfd8@cogapp.com> References: <438ffe4e04dfebdc0411bdfede465504@souslelogo.com> <0d81046e-7e99-3f58-7bdc-be9beceabfd8@cogapp.com> Message-ID: Hello Ben, Thank you for your detailed answer. So far, I only have to deal with french text so I only need a list of diacritic vowels and a list of the chars used as replacement : aaaeeeeiioouuuy With a simple loop it is feasible and it doesn't slow down my scripts significantly. But indeed, a 'diacriticSensitive' property would be really helpful. jbv Le 2022-09-27 06:22, Ben Rubinstein a crit : > Hi jbv, > > This one of a number of gaps that exist in the jungle of character > processing in LiveCode. > > I don't think there is a 'diacriticSensitive' property. Some part of > LiveCode are clever about accents, see e.g. > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15312 > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15443 > > As you note, it would be useful if there was a built-in function to > strip diacritics, which has been requested (for 14 years now): > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=6450 > > One trick that can be used in some contexts is to put the text into a > field, retrieve the htmlText of the fields - which encodes many > accented characters as entity names - and reduce these entity names > back to the unaccented character. > > There's also an enhancement request (pending for over 18 years) to > expose this functionality without the need to use a field - useful for > many purposes, not just for stripping accents: > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1372 > > This especially ought to be a cheap enhancement, since LC evidently > incorporates the necessary tables already. > > Putting text through html entities is not a perfect solution to > implementing a "stripDiacritics" function, because e.g. you might > render "—" as "m"; but as far as I know, currently it's either > that or encode your own tables. > > Ben > > > On 16/09/2022 15:10, jbv via use-livecode wrote: >> Hi list, >> >> Is there a way to ignore accented characters in LC, like in mySQL >> for instance ? >> Here's an example : I need these 2 array items below to be considered >> as 1 single entity : >>   add 1 to myArray["interprtation"] >>   add 1 to myArray["interpretation"] >> >> Of course, I can write a function that removes accents, but I was >> wondering if there was a built-in function in LC to do that, in a >> similar logic as "set the casesentive to false" for instance. >> >> Thanks you in advance. >> jbv >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dan at clearvisiontech.com Tue Sep 27 11:02:17 2022 From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2022 15:02:17 +0000 Subject: Images in Push Messages In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Panos, Yes, I have the icon in place and its showing just fine. It's not the icon I'm working on... it's an actual image within the message (Like this: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/pluralsight/guides/master/images/df051757-9a09-417b-a77a-8192c984b9a4.png). In some more research, I ran into this: https://developer.android.com/develop/ui/views/notifications/build-notification Does LC use the " NotificationCompat" when building packages? Thank you! Dan Friedman CEO, ClearVision Technologies, LLC Voice: 909/484-2052 http://www.clearvisiontech.com On 9/27/22, 4:46 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of panagiotis m via use-livecode" wrote: Hello Dan, Have you provided a "Status Bar Icon" in the Android standalone settings? If yes, what icons have you tried? I think colored icons are no longer allowed, in recent Android versions. The icons have to be png images, and they need to be white on black or transparent only, otherwise they display as a gray square area. You can check some samples on the web, e.g. here: https://romannurik.github.io/AndroidAssetStudio/icons-notification.html#source.type=clipart&source.clipart=place&source.space.trim=1&source.space.pad=0&name=ic_stat_place Hope this helps. Please let us know if this works for you. Kind regards, Panos On Tue, 27 Sept 2022 at 03:50, Dan Friedman via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > We're trying to add images to push messages. Can't seem to get it to work > (starting with Android first). Anyone have any knowledge on this? I > wouldn't think so, but Is there something I have to set in the LC app? > Any guidance anyone might have would be appreciated! > > -Dan > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From merakosp at gmail.com Tue Sep 27 11:29:09 2022 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis m) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2022 18:29:09 +0300 Subject: Images in Push Messages In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Dan, Ah I see. Hmm. Nope, we do not use "NotificationCompat". How are you sending the notifications? Are you using the Firebase Console? if yes, I am wondering if you could just provide an image in the "Notification Image (optional)" field here: https://console.firebase.google.com/u/0/project/pushnotificationtestlc965/notification/compose Kind regards, Panos -- On Tue, 27 Sept 2022 at 18:02, Dan Friedman wrote: > Panos, > > Yes, I have the icon in place and its showing just fine. It's not the > icon I'm working on... it's an actual image within the message (Like this: > https://raw.githubusercontent.com/pluralsight/guides/master/images/df051757-9a09-417b-a77a-8192c984b9a4.png). > In some more research, I ran into this: > > > https://developer.android.com/develop/ui/views/notifications/build-notification > > Does LC use the " NotificationCompat" when building packages? > > > Thank you! > > Dan Friedman > CEO, ClearVision Technologies, LLC > Voice: 909/484-2052 > http://www.clearvisiontech.com > > > On 9/27/22, 4:46 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of panagiotis m via > use-livecode" use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > Hello Dan, > > Have you provided a "Status Bar Icon" in the Android standalone > settings? > If yes, what icons have you tried? I think colored icons are no longer > allowed, in recent Android versions. > > The icons have to be png images, and they need to be white on black or > transparent only, otherwise they display as a gray square area. > > You can check some samples on the web, e.g. here: > > > https://romannurik.github.io/AndroidAssetStudio/icons-notification.html#source.type=clipart&source.clipart=place&source.space.trim=1&source.space.pad=0&name=ic_stat_place > > Hope this helps. > > Please let us know if this works for you. > > Kind regards, > Panos > > On Tue, 27 Sept 2022 at 03:50, Dan Friedman via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > We're trying to add images to push messages. Can't seem to get it > to work > > (starting with Android first). Anyone have any knowledge on this? > I > > wouldn't think so, but Is there something I have to set in the LC > app? > > Any guidance anyone might have would be appreciated! > > > > -Dan > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > From tom at makeshyft.com Fri Sep 30 11:05:13 2022 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2022 11:05:13 -0400 Subject: one field to rule them all In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mike, if you have the bundle and the appstarterstack, you can view the examples there. On Mon, Sep 26, 2022 at 4:36 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Is there any advantage to using the android widget vs. creating them > with the commands? I'd like to make the ios and android versions of this > app as close as possible, since there's already going to be a tablet and > a phone version. > I just wonder why all the field widgets weren't all combined into a single > widget. You've got the commands to build something by hand, the android > widget, the mac widget, and several field objects. I can understand having > various objects if you have a situation like you do with the field objects, > where the settings are different because the use-cases are different. > > On Mon, Sep 26, 2022 at 3:46 PM Mike Kerner > wrote: > > > does anyone know why we don't have a single field widget? > > i am just dipping a toe in the android waters, so do the mobilecontrol > > commands not work in android? the dictionary seems to say that they do. > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 30 13:12:29 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2022 17:12:29 +0000 Subject: RegEx to convert standard date to sql date Message-ID: <3AD0C9C1-5AA3-465B-A371-833CD66F8AB3@iotecdigital.com> I'm trying to convert a date format like mm/dd/yyyy to an sql date format yyyymmdd. Any ideas? Nothing I found on the interwebs seems to work. Bob S From jacques.clavel at gmail.com Fri Sep 30 13:38:16 2022 From: jacques.clavel at gmail.com (Jacques Clavel) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2022 19:38:16 +0200 Subject: RegEx to convert standard date to sql date In-Reply-To: <3AD0C9C1-5AA3-465B-A371-833CD66F8AB3@iotecdigital.com> References: <3AD0C9C1-5AA3-465B-A371-833CD66F8AB3@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Why not : set itemdel to "/" get tDate put item 3 of it & item 1 of it & item 2 of it into tSql JC Le ven. 30 sept. 2022 à 19:13, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> a écrit : > I'm trying to convert a date format like mm/dd/yyyy to an sql date format > yyyymmdd. Any ideas? Nothing I found on the interwebs seems to work. > > Bob S > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Jacques Clavel From keith.clarke at me.com Fri Sep 30 13:41:05 2022 From: keith.clarke at me.com (Keith Clarke) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2022 18:41:05 +0100 Subject: RegEx to convert standard date to sql date In-Reply-To: <3AD0C9C1-5AA3-465B-A371-833CD66F8AB3@iotecdigital.com> References: <3AD0C9C1-5AA3-465B-A371-833CD66F8AB3@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <0CC9B6CB-FF26-47BD-9D84-844B040AF21B@me.com> If it's always this standard string 'tDate' why not avoid Regex and just set the delimiters of tDate to "/" and then put item 3 of tDate & item 2 of tDate and put item 1 of tDate? Best, Keith > On 30 Sep 2022, at 18:13, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > I'm trying to convert a date format like mm/dd/yyyy to an sql date format yyyymmdd. Any ideas? Nothing I found on the interwebs seems to work. > > Bob S > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From tom at makeshyft.com Fri Sep 30 13:49:52 2022 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2022 13:49:52 -0400 Subject: RegEx to convert standard date to sql date In-Reply-To: <0CC9B6CB-FF26-47BD-9D84-844B040AF21B@me.com> References: <3AD0C9C1-5AA3-465B-A371-833CD66F8AB3@iotecdigital.com> <0CC9B6CB-FF26-47BD-9D84-844B040AF21B@me.com> Message-ID: Regex is overkill for this ..... i would handcode the translation like Keith mentioned. On Fri, Sep 30, 2022 at 1:42 PM Keith Clarke via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > If it's always this standard string 'tDate' why not avoid Regex and just > set the delimiters of tDate to "/" and then put item 3 of tDate & item 2 of > tDate and put item 1 of tDate? > Best, > Keith > > > On 30 Sep 2022, at 18:13, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > I'm trying to convert a date format like mm/dd/yyyy to an sql date > format yyyymmdd. Any ideas? Nothing I found on the interwebs seems to work. > > > > Bob S > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From gcanyon at gmail.com Fri Sep 30 15:12:46 2022 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2022 12:12:46 -0700 Subject: Quick and simple web demos? Message-ID: Back in the day, I would create quick and simple demos of something I was building as a concept, create standalones, and send them to the people I wanted to demonstrate to. As an example of an example, suppose I wanted to build a simple Eliza-like chatbot. I could throw a field on a card, put a "start chat" button on it, and build logic in the field or the card to get the job done. A few message handlers for EnterInField and ReturnInField would get the job done. These days there are at least two flaws with that approach: 1. Often the people I want to demo to are using work computers that are locked down from random app installs. 2. Sometimes I want to build a demo the world at large can see, and clearly installing an app from some random person is not the way to do that anymore. SO: is it accurate to say: 1. The above is possible 2. I'd need a web-accessible place to store the files -- would google drive be sufficient? 3. I'd need to add an HTML5 license to my account Any best references for steps to follow? Thanks, Geoff From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 30 18:44:47 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2022 22:44:47 +0000 Subject: RegEx to convert standard date to sql date In-Reply-To: References: <3AD0C9C1-5AA3-465B-A371-833CD66F8AB3@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <78BFC9D5-B6C4-45B3-BCEB-C9D00B494984@iotecdigital.com> Well it's like this. I am working in a document management system, and when I capture a date, I want to convert it to an sql date. I am not working in Livecode for this. Bob S > On Sep 30, 2022, at 10:38 , Jacques Clavel via use-livecode wrote: > > Why not : > set itemdel to "/" > get tDate > put item 3 of it & item 1 of it & item 2 of it into tSql > > JC > > Le ven. 30 sept. 2022 à 19:13, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> a écrit : > >> I'm trying to convert a date format like mm/dd/yyyy to an sql date format >> yyyymmdd. Any ideas? Nothing I found on the interwebs seems to work. >> >> Bob S >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > -- > Jacques Clavel > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From alex at tweedly.net Fri Sep 30 20:11:40 2022 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2022 01:11:40 +0100 Subject: Quick and simple web demos? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4f9d310e-ac2f-9898-add9-39c1f6818e31@tweedly.net> Short answers: 1. Yes 2. Yes, but probably not. 3. Yes. Long answers. 1. Yes, absolutely, it's ideal for quick, easy-to-distribute apps or demo samples. 2. Yes, you'll need somewhere to store/give access to the files. But it probably won't be Google Drive - you want the files of the app to each be accessible via https: (and there are assumptions about their relative position in the default build version - may be possible to over-ride them and use Google Drive, but I suspect lots more work. Easiest is to just have a web server and put the bundle created by  build-for-web up there. 3. Yes. 4. There are a few samples, etc. https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1496056-how-do-i-put-my-first-app-on-the-web-lc-10-and-later Note this uses the default-built HTML file, which is pretty unappealing. The discussion on the comments says something about replacing it, or there have been other examples on the uselist and (more) on the forums about this. In one of the LC Global conferences fairly recently, Steve Crighton and Michael Macreary did a web app, with custom html/LCS to interact to handle resizing etc. Sorry - don't know which one it was, and the poor indexing/naming makes it tedious to try to find. It's all a bit complex and barely documented for now, but will improve before actual release. Alex. On 30/09/2022 20:12, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode wrote: > Back in the day, I would create quick and simple demos of something I was > building as a concept, create standalones, and send them to the people I > wanted to demonstrate to. As an example of an example, suppose I wanted to > build a simple Eliza-like chatbot. I could throw a field on a card, put a > "start chat" button on it, and build logic in the field or the card to get > the job done. A few message handlers for EnterInField and ReturnInField > would get the job done. > > These days there are at least two flaws with that approach: > > 1. Often the people I want to demo to are using work computers that are > locked down from random app installs. > 2. Sometimes I want to build a demo the world at large can see, and clearly > installing an app from some random person is not the way to do that anymore. > > SO: is it accurate to say: > > 1. The above is possible > 2. I'd need a web-accessible place to store the files -- would google drive > be sufficient? > 3. I'd need to add an HTML5 license to my account > > Any best references for steps to follow? > > Thanks, > > Geoff > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ahsoftware at sonic.net Fri Sep 30 21:03:03 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2022 18:03:03 -0700 Subject: Quick and simple web demos? In-Reply-To: <4f9d310e-ac2f-9898-add9-39c1f6818e31@tweedly.net> References: <4f9d310e-ac2f-9898-add9-39c1f6818e31@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <1c2b91f5-739e-a661-d07e-7dc73d60df29@sonic.net> On 9/30/22 17:11, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote: > and the poor indexing/naming makes it tedious to try to find. ...and speaking of poor indexing etc... I was looking for a way to point the svgicon widget to an external svg file and finding that for some reason this isn't built into the widget. So I want online to livecodeshare and typed "svg" into the search field. Upper case. Lower case. Didn't matter - I still got zero results, even though I know there are several stacks to deal with svg files. Thank you so much for your Sample Stacks plugin, which does the job SO much better than that stupid web site. Still don't have an answer to my problem, but at least I can search properly. Over time I've gradually been replacing parts of my development environment with improvements: tinyDictionary, etc. Waiting for someone to build a better Proj Browser. BTW... I typed "Sample stacks" into the web search field and got 57 hits, only one of which had anything to do with sample stacks. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From sean at pidigital.co.uk Thu Sep 1 00:08:54 2022 From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Sean Cole) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 05:08:54 +0100 Subject: Livecode / Github In-Reply-To: <3ba1188d-59d4-c5d7-3f8e-262529b5ccfc@sonic.net> References: <9ECE2480-BAAB-4E8A-B97D-70F2153A91C3@pidigital.co.uk> <8b549acf-8e33-a468-d7e8-3c1fa6ce7c34@sonic.net> <56eb98b4-b369-aefa-54d3-eb12f220b87c@sonic.net> <3ba1188d-59d4-c5d7-3f8e-262529b5ccfc@sonic.net> Message-ID: Yeah, I could really do with it giving me some feedback as to where this object is. Actually, I could... ... I just wrote a plugin for it. Use scCreatePlugin "","" (scCreatePlugin on its own doesn't work from the message box like the dictionary suggests). Then in the script I used global gLastObject on savingProperties pLongId, @pProperteis --> your code put "saving properties of" && pLongId into gLastObject put word -2 to -1 of gLastObject wait 0.01 millisec with messages end savingProperties ---- Once I ran this it displayed which substack it was working on in the message box and once it had failed the global showed me the last parameter it had successfully accessed. Cool. But I still can't work out which parameter of either that object (a standard text field) or the next (a group with no behaviours or anything out of the ordinary as far as I can tell). I'll come back to it tomorrow. It's silly o'clock now. Sean On Wed, 31 Aug 2022 at 17:13, Mark Wieder via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 8/31/22 03:00, Sean Cole via use-livecode wrote: > > > LC Team: :-) It would be REALLY handy if proper errors were thrown when > one > > occurs that can help us easily understand what the issues are. Also, if > > prior to release documentation were gone through to make sure they are > > legible. And if plugins released actually work as described. :-) > > Actually, it's even worse. > The result is empty if no error occurred and "* successful" if it > worked. To me that seems backwards. > > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23911 > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From gcanyon at gmail.com Thu Sep 1 00:54:58 2022 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2022 21:54:58 -0700 Subject: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <816C27F1-2EFD-47F9-A507-46245A41158A@gmail.com> <69F805E3-DF6D-4403-BE3E-84CAB718344B@milby7.com> Message-ID: Agreed -- I've put off LCB because I don't much bother with widgets. I suppose I could update Navigator, but it already works well, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ So if it isn't faster, dare I say it, why would I? gc On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 5:54 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > It would be interesting if lcb was slower, since it's supposed to be > lower-level. > The demo that Steven did, demonstrating the speed of populating a polyGrid > (lcb widget) vs. a dataGrid (lcs group) was that it was much, much faster. > > On Tue, Aug 30, 2022 at 5:58 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > LCB has been slower than LCS, but the advantage is that you can easily > > link to much faster compiler code. I’m not sure if that has changed > any… I > > could pull out some code from a while back where we were doing some speed > > tests. > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > On Aug 30, 2022, at 5:31 PM, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > > > Is there a page that discusses the pros of LCB? I looked and didn’t > > find it. > > > > > > I’m thinking of a simple list (I’m making this up because I didn’t find > > the page) > > > > > > — N times faster execution than LCS > > > — interface with code libraries using simple hooks > > > — bundle code and graphics together into widgets > > > > > > More? > > > > > > gc > > > > > >>> On Aug 28, 2022, at 11:27 AM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> On 8/28/22 11:06, Mike Kerner wrote: > > >>> the lcb documentation, especially in the api widget is ungreat. > > >>> the good news is that as long as there is an oss repo version of LC, > > you can hunt for some of the information that is missing. AND, at least > for > > now, you can still find much of it in the LC application > > >>> example: as i was hunting, i found a bunch of editors, but none of > > them seem to be documented anywhere obvious. > > >> > > >> Yep - I find most of my documentation by digging. > > >> > > >> The lack of colornames just bit me earlier this week and I had to > > backpedal and code a list of a dozen color names as "R,G,B". Even the > > "#FFFFFF" format isn't accepted. > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Mark Wieder > > >> ahsoftware at gmail.com > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> use-livecode mailing list > > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From gcanyon at gmail.com Thu Sep 1 02:25:38 2022 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2022 23:25:38 -0700 Subject: Livecode / Github In-Reply-To: References: <9ECE2480-BAAB-4E8A-B97D-70F2153A91C3@pidigital.co.uk> <8b549acf-8e33-a468-d7e8-3c1fa6ce7c34@sonic.net> <56eb98b4-b369-aefa-54d3-eb12f220b87c@sonic.net> <3ba1188d-59d4-c5d7-3f8e-262529b5ccfc@sonic.net> Message-ID: So all this discussion reminded me that I wrote an export/import stack some time ago. I definitely don't still have a copy on my computer, so I went looking on the web: geoff canyon livecode export -- nothing useful, maybe it was in the runrev era? geoff canyon runrev export -- no luck. I remembered that I used XML formatting for the export. Something like XML Geoff Canyon export did the trick. 21 years ago? What?? Then off to archive.org to find the actual file: mcripper.mc And... I'm looking at my ancient history! I'm curious to try it on a large stack and see how it does. gc On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 9:10 PM Sean Cole via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Yeah, I could really do with it giving me some feedback as to where this > object is. Actually, I could... > ... I just wrote a plugin for it. Use scCreatePlugin "","" (scCreatePlugin > on its own doesn't work from the message box like the dictionary suggests). > Then in the script I used > > global gLastObject > > on savingProperties pLongId, @pProperteis > --> your code > put "saving properties of" && pLongId into gLastObject > put word -2 to -1 of gLastObject > wait 0.01 millisec with messages > end savingProperties > > ---- > > Once I ran this it displayed which substack it was working on in the > message box and once it had failed the global showed me the last parameter > it had successfully accessed. Cool. But I still can't work out which > parameter of either that object (a standard text field) or the next (a > group with no behaviours or anything out of the ordinary as far as I can > tell). I'll come back to it tomorrow. It's silly o'clock now. > > Sean > > On Wed, 31 Aug 2022 at 17:13, Mark Wieder via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > On 8/31/22 03:00, Sean Cole via use-livecode wrote: > > > > > LC Team: :-) It would be REALLY handy if proper errors were thrown when > > one > > > occurs that can help us easily understand what the issues are. Also, if > > > prior to release documentation were gone through to make sure they are > > > legible. And if plugins released actually work as described. :-) > > > > Actually, it's even worse. > > The result is empty if no error occurred and "* successful" if it > > worked. To me that seems backwards. > > > > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23911 > > > > -- > > Mark Wieder > > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu Sep 1 08:47:47 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 08:47:47 -0400 Subject: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <816C27F1-2EFD-47F9-A507-46245A41158A@gmail.com> <69F805E3-DF6D-4403-BE3E-84CAB718344B@milby7.com> Message-ID: I don't know why you would. Libraries that aren't trying to get into system-level API's don't need to be there. On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 12:56 AM Geoff Canyon via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Agreed -- I've put off LCB because I don't much bother with widgets. I > suppose I could update Navigator, but it already works well, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ > > So if it isn't faster, dare I say it, why would I? > > gc > > On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 5:54 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > It would be interesting if lcb was slower, since it's supposed to be > > lower-level. > > The demo that Steven did, demonstrating the speed of populating a > polyGrid > > (lcb widget) vs. a dataGrid (lcs group) was that it was much, much > faster. > > > > On Tue, Aug 30, 2022 at 5:58 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > > LCB has been slower than LCS, but the advantage is that you can easily > > > link to much faster compiler code. I’m not sure if that has changed > > any… I > > > could pull out some code from a while back where we were doing some > speed > > > tests. > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > > > On Aug 30, 2022, at 5:31 PM, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode < > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > Is there a page that discusses the pros of LCB? I looked and didn’t > > > find it. > > > > > > > > I’m thinking of a simple list (I’m making this up because I didn’t > find > > > the page) > > > > > > > > — N times faster execution than LCS > > > > — interface with code libraries using simple hooks > > > > — bundle code and graphics together into widgets > > > > > > > > More? > > > > > > > > gc > > > > > > > >>> On Aug 28, 2022, at 11:27 AM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode < > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > >>> > > > >>> On 8/28/22 11:06, Mike Kerner wrote: > > > >>> the lcb documentation, especially in the api widget is ungreat. > > > >>> the good news is that as long as there is an oss repo version of > LC, > > > you can hunt for some of the information that is missing. AND, at least > > for > > > now, you can still find much of it in the LC application > > > >>> example: as i was hunting, i found a bunch of editors, but none of > > > them seem to be documented anywhere obvious. > > > >> > > > >> Yep - I find most of my documentation by digging. > > > >> > > > >> The lack of colornames just bit me earlier this week and I had to > > > backpedal and code a list of a dozen color names as "R,G,B". Even the > > > "#FFFFFF" format isn't accepted. > > > >> > > > >> -- > > > >> Mark Wieder > > > >> ahsoftware at gmail.com > > > >> > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> use-livecode mailing list > > > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > subscription preferences: > > > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > subscription preferences: > > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Sep 1 11:10:31 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 15:10:31 +0000 Subject: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <816C27F1-2EFD-47F9-A507-46245A41158A@gmail.com> <69F805E3-DF6D-4403-BE3E-84CAB718344B@milby7.com> Message-ID: <6FD1450A-87FA-4208-B4F8-6050A5F358AE@iotecdigital.com> Also, when it comes to performance, developers should ask not only is it faster, but would anyone notice the difference? I used to say, "A computer only needs to be fast enough." Some will ask, "Fast enough for what?" To which I reply, "Now you are asking the right question." Bob S On Aug 31, 2022, at 21:54 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode > wrote: Agreed -- I've put off LCB because I don't much bother with widgets. I suppose I could update Navigator, but it already works well, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ So if it isn't faster, dare I say it, why would I? gc From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Thu Sep 1 11:36:47 2022 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 11:36:47 -0400 Subject: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: <6FD1450A-87FA-4208-B4F8-6050A5F358AE@iotecdigital.com> References: <816C27F1-2EFD-47F9-A507-46245A41158A@gmail.com> <69F805E3-DF6D-4403-BE3E-84CAB718344B@milby7.com> <6FD1450A-87FA-4208-B4F8-6050A5F358AE@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <002b01d8be18$a8cd77c0$fa686740$@net> 42 Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Bob Sneidar via use-livecode Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2022 11:11 AM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Bob Sneidar Subject: Re: lcb missing manual Also, when it comes to performance, developers should ask not only is it faster, but would anyone notice the difference? I used to say, "A computer only needs to be fast enough." Some will ask, "Fast enough for what?" To which I reply, "Now you are asking the right question." Bob S On Aug 31, 2022, at 21:54 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode > wrote: Agreed -- I've put off LCB because I don't much bother with widgets. I suppose I could update Navigator, but it already works well, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ So if it isn't faster, dare I say it, why would I? gc _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Sep 1 11:54:48 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 15:54:48 +0000 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: <97A503CE-34F0-4BA8-8CA8-C7E52E7A1364@iotecdigital.com> References: <16B11823-3348-421C-95A3-A8CF2A7170CA@iotecdigital.com> <5C7E50AF-B53A-4ED6-AD7B-2841FBE4A9CD@iotecdigital.com> <97A503CE-34F0-4BA8-8CA8-C7E52E7A1364@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: OK I'm well on my way to standardizing fonts. However I have run across a bit of an issue. Take the Google font Aclonica. On the MacOS it appears on the fonts menu in the property editor as Aclonica Regular. But on Windows it appears as simply Aclonica. That means if you assign the font using the Fonts menu on MacOS, the fonts WON'T RENDER on the PC. But if you type, "Aclonica" then it works on both platforms. The workaround is to type the name of the font (in this case Aclonica) without the Regular instead of using the Fonts menu in the property editor. BTW the Fonts menu in the Property Editor needs a major facelift! You cannot hot-type to get to the font you want or even near it. Scrolling is a pain. If I start using a font file while the property editor is open, the new font will not appear until I close and re-open the property editor. Bleh. Anyway I'll get around to an enhancement request soon. Bob S > On Aug 31, 2022, at 08:27 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > Okay I see there are a butt-ton of them and must be downloaded individually. They can be had at fonts.com. I already found one I like for my module headers! > > Bob S > > > On Aug 31, 2022, at 08:17 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode > wrote: > > Great idea! I looked for a download link for the fonts, but all I can find are github links to the source code (I don't want to have to build out all the fonts if that's what that is) and other sources for font downloaders and synchs. Is there anywhere I can just download the OTF files? > > Bob S > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Sep 1 13:06:55 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 10:06:55 -0700 Subject: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <951cdea0-756c-3d78-97f4-448ee7baa13f@fourthworld.com> Geoff Canyon wrote: > I've put off LCB because I don't much bother with widgets. > I suppose I could update Navigator, but it already works well, > so \_()_/ > > So if it isn't faster, dare I say it, why would I? Foreign Function Interface, and certain custom control needs. In short, the language choice hierarchy seems to be: - Use LC Script wherever you can. - If you need FFI or have specific rendering/packaging needs for shared components beyond what custom group-based controls offer, use LC Builder. - If raw CPU speed is absolutely critical, consider externals. Kevin said this more eloquently back around the time LC Builder premiered: I think this is a really important principal. Always use the highest level language you can for any given project. Offering that very high level language option is a big part of LiveCode's reason for being. Previously our primary choices were between LiveCode Script and a lower level language such as C. Now we have a third choice, an intermediate LiveCode Builder. Its much faster than C but slower than Script. It is going to excel at certain tasks. However we should always choose to use it only when it offers clear advantages above LiveCode Script for the project that outweigh the extra level of effort needed to use it. I know its very tempting having added a whole new language to build everything in that, but we must carefully resist that temptation and use it judiciously, only for what it is best at. http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2015-August/217849.html -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Sep 1 13:31:39 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 17:31:39 +0000 Subject: Stylistic question. In-Reply-To: References: <1818ceeb0b0.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <990BFD28-D609-4498-9DF0-A80E605861C4@iotecdigital.com> by Navigator I was put off by Navigator at first, mainly because it was able to do a LOT, and I was looking for an easy answer to a complex problem: How to set properties for objects in a much more intuitive way that the LC Property Editor. Once I started using it however, I cannot imagine how I lived without it. I don't think I am going too far to say that it is in the top 3 most useful interface enhancements ever developed in LC. I will however ask for just one enhancement: If I am filtering the list and have an item or items selected, and then I clear the filter, it also clears the selection. It would be great if the selection could be maintained or restored. Bob S From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Thu Sep 1 13:32:12 2022 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 13:32:12 -0400 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <816C27F1-2EFD-47F9-A507-46245A41158A@gmail.com> <69F805E3-DF6D-4403-BE3E-84CAB718344B@milby7.com> Message-ID: <003801d8be28$c8632660$59297320$@net> I took a major stab at LCB and created a new widget based on the navbar widget. I have made 2 changes to the navbar and call it navrad. It does not modify the stock navbar. With almost no docs it was a challenge. There were so many unknowns I got a few giant headaches. It adds 4 new properties(iconFill,autoRADHilite,preHilitedItem, preHilitedItemName) and 1 new message(preHiliteChanged). I updated the documentation so the new properties and message show in the dictionary with example(search for "navrad" or just "rad"). One thing I ran into was that I had to call the "autohilite" property autoRADHilite because using any existing property causes a confilict that I could not get around without sufficient docs. It does show in the property inspector as "auto hilite". These changes allow 1)enlarge/center the icon if there is no label 2)intercept a selection before it is hilited and make a choice to hilite and send the stock hiliteChanged message (or not). Why no label? For one social media icons don’t need labels. Why a pre message? Someone suggested it and I thought it was a great idea. Backwards compatible with existing navbar LCS code. The was an auto sizing to card width request. I will look to see if I can do it without more docs(or help). If anyone would like to try it and find any bugs it's at ==> https://www.dropbox.com/s/51zm4m8dip49jov/com.livecode.widget.navrad.2.0.0.lce?dl=0 Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net From sean at pidigital.co.uk Thu Sep 1 14:25:50 2022 From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Sean Cole) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 19:25:50 +0100 Subject: Livecode / Github In-Reply-To: References: <9ECE2480-BAAB-4E8A-B97D-70F2153A91C3@pidigital.co.uk> <8b549acf-8e33-a468-d7e8-3c1fa6ce7c34@sonic.net> <56eb98b4-b369-aefa-54d3-eb12f220b87c@sonic.net> <3ba1188d-59d4-c5d7-3f8e-262529b5ccfc@sonic.net> Message-ID: I managed to get the stack and all substacks to export finally. There was an issue with an old extension library two of the stacks use (Chart Maker) so just removed the stacks for now and all ported properly. Now, it occurs to me that this is all well and good, but there is a lack of instruction on how to make use of it now. How do you link it to something like GitHub or some other external or local server? How do we collaborate with other users? How will they know which scripts are which when they only see a folder full or GUIDs? I 'think' these are valid questions. Or maybe I'm just stupid or missed something somewhere. By the way, here is an update to the plugin code: global gLastObject on savingProperties pLongId, @pProperteis // I'm loving all the typos like pProperteis - Really rushed out the door. put "saving properties of" && pLongId into gLastObject put gLastObject wait 0.001 millisec with messages end savingProperties on savingScript pLongId, @pScript put "saving script of" && pLongId into gLastObject put gLastObject wait 0.001 millisec with messages end savingScript Sean On Thu, 1 Sept 2022 at 05:08, Sean Cole wrote: > Yeah, I could really do with it giving me some feedback as to where this > object is. Actually, I could... > ... I just wrote a plugin for it. Use scCreatePlugin "","" (scCreatePlugin > on its own doesn't work from the message box like the dictionary suggests). > Then in the script I used > > global gLastObject > > on savingProperties pLongId, @pProperteis > --> your code > put "saving properties of" && pLongId into gLastObject > put word -2 to -1 of gLastObject > wait 0.01 millisec with messages > end savingProperties > > ---- > > Once I ran this it displayed which substack it was working on in the > message box and once it had failed the global showed me the last parameter > it had successfully accessed. Cool. But I still can't work out which > parameter of either that object (a standard text field) or the next (a > group with no behaviours or anything out of the ordinary as far as I can > tell). I'll come back to it tomorrow. It's silly o'clock now. > > Sean > > On Wed, 31 Aug 2022 at 17:13, Mark Wieder via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> On 8/31/22 03:00, Sean Cole via use-livecode wrote: >> >> > LC Team: :-) It would be REALLY handy if proper errors were thrown when >> one >> > occurs that can help us easily understand what the issues are. Also, if >> > prior to release documentation were gone through to make sure they are >> > legible. And if plugins released actually work as described. :-) >> >> Actually, it's even worse. >> The result is empty if no error occurred and "* successful" if it >> worked. To me that seems backwards. >> >> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23911 >> >> -- >> Mark Wieder >> ahsoftware at gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > From brian at milby7.com Thu Sep 1 15:13:36 2022 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 15:13:36 -0400 Subject: Livecode / Github In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <025EAAAC-94C8-4F4C-A161-36F240D7E4A8@milby7.com> Here is the workflow that I think is intended: Export stack to files Commit files to GitHub or other VCS — Fetch/pull latest from GitHub Import stack from files Make changes Export stack to files Commit changes to GitHub — At any point changes between branches can be merged due to structure of exports so you could have parallel development happening. Brian Milby brian at milby7.com > On Sep 1, 2022, at 2:27 PM, Sean Cole via use-livecode wrote: > > I managed to get the stack and all substacks to export finally. There was > an issue with an old extension library two of the stacks use (Chart Maker) > so just removed the stacks for now and all ported properly. > > Now, it occurs to me that this is all well and good, but there is a lack of > instruction on how to make use of it now. How do you link it to something > like GitHub or some other external or local server? How do we collaborate > with other users? How will they know which scripts are which when they only > see a folder full or GUIDs? > > I 'think' these are valid questions. Or maybe I'm just stupid or missed > something somewhere. > > By the way, here is an update to the plugin code: > global gLastObject > > on savingProperties pLongId, @pProperteis > // I'm loving all the typos like pProperteis - Really rushed out the > door. > put "saving properties of" && pLongId into gLastObject > put gLastObject > wait 0.001 millisec with messages > end savingProperties > > on savingScript pLongId, @pScript > put "saving script of" && pLongId into gLastObject > put gLastObject > wait 0.001 millisec with messages > end savingScript > > Sean > >> On Thu, 1 Sept 2022 at 05:08, Sean Cole wrote: >> >> Yeah, I could really do with it giving me some feedback as to where this >> object is. Actually, I could... >> ... I just wrote a plugin for it. Use scCreatePlugin "","" (scCreatePlugin >> on its own doesn't work from the message box like the dictionary suggests). >> Then in the script I used >> >> global gLastObject >> >> on savingProperties pLongId, @pProperteis >> --> your code >> put "saving properties of" && pLongId into gLastObject >> put word -2 to -1 of gLastObject >> wait 0.01 millisec with messages >> end savingProperties >> >> ---- >> >> Once I ran this it displayed which substack it was working on in the >> message box and once it had failed the global showed me the last parameter >> it had successfully accessed. Cool. But I still can't work out which >> parameter of either that object (a standard text field) or the next (a >> group with no behaviours or anything out of the ordinary as far as I can >> tell). I'll come back to it tomorrow. It's silly o'clock now. >> >> Sean >> >> On Wed, 31 Aug 2022 at 17:13, Mark Wieder via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>>> On 8/31/22 03:00, Sean Cole via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>>> LC Team: :-) It would be REALLY handy if proper errors were thrown when >>> one >>>> occurs that can help us easily understand what the issues are. Also, if >>>> prior to release documentation were gone through to make sure they are >>>> legible. And if plugins released actually work as described. :-) >>> >>> Actually, it's even worse. >>> The result is empty if no error occurred and "* successful" if it >>> worked. To me that seems backwards. >>> >>> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23911 >>> >>> -- >>> Mark Wieder >>> ahsoftware at gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Sep 1 15:25:34 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 19:25:34 +0000 Subject: propertyChanged message Message-ID: <21EE8FB7-D2D3-45A6-A95F-844F542EA5BE@iotecdigital.com> Hi all. I would like to see a propertyChanged message implemented that gets sent to any object when any of it's properties change. There could even be two messages, one for built-in properies and another for custom properties. Imagine being able to change the font or size of a particular object, and then having all the other objects that "subscribed" to that object's font or size property ALSO have their fonts change. It would then be possible to build a kind of Object Oriented environment. What say you? Bob S From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Sep 1 15:27:28 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 19:27:28 +0000 Subject: propertyChanged message In-Reply-To: <21EE8FB7-D2D3-45A6-A95F-844F542EA5BE@iotecdigital.com> References: <21EE8FB7-D2D3-45A6-A95F-844F542EA5BE@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23917 > On Sep 1, 2022, at 12:25 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi all. > > I would like to see a propertyChanged message implemented that gets sent to any object when any of it's properties change. There could even be two messages, one for built-in properies and another for custom properties. > > Imagine being able to change the font or size of a particular object, and then having all the other objects that "subscribed" to that object's font or size property ALSO have their fonts change. It would then be possible to build a kind of Object Oriented environment. What say you? > > Bob S > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ahsoftware at sonic.net Thu Sep 1 16:23:14 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 13:23:14 -0700 Subject: propertyChanged message In-Reply-To: <21EE8FB7-D2D3-45A6-A95F-844F542EA5BE@iotecdigital.com> References: <21EE8FB7-D2D3-45A6-A95F-844F542EA5BE@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <5a8dfc34-34c2-3a10-ea87-9d240e2f4860@sonic.net> On 9/1/22 12:25, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > Hi all. > > I would like to see a propertyChanged message implemented that gets sent to any object when any of it's properties change. There could even be two messages, one for built-in properies and another for custom properties. > > Imagine being able to change the font or size of a particular object, and then having all the other objects that "subscribed" to that object's font or size property ALSO have their fonts change. It would then be possible to build a kind of Object Oriented environment. What say you? Why not just use the built-in hierarchy?: change the textfont of the parent object and all the child object automatically get the change. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Sep 1 16:33:39 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 15:33:39 -0500 Subject: Text to speech Message-ID: <1208fc7b-7f41-131f-5767-d26ada36f378@hyperactivesw.com> What library/commands do you use for text to speech? I see that revSpeak works on Windows and Mac, and the speech library ("speech*") works on android, iOS, and Mac. What do you use if you want to support all four platforms? Do you just branch to revSpeak for Windows? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Sep 1 16:34:54 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 20:34:54 +0000 Subject: propertyChanged message In-Reply-To: <5a8dfc34-34c2-3a10-ea87-9d240e2f4860@sonic.net> References: <21EE8FB7-D2D3-45A6-A95F-844F542EA5BE@iotecdigital.com> <5a8dfc34-34c2-3a10-ea87-9d240e2f4860@sonic.net> Message-ID: <8EF7D978-7EAA-4541-9128-BB426AC43F89@iotecdigital.com> Because there are a lot of parent objects for one, and changing the mainstack default font would change EVERYTHING. What I had in mind was a label type that I could create subtypes from, then instance from those. For example I use label fields for a form header, subheaders for datagrids, subheaders for multiline text fields, and of course labels for single line fields. Each one of those have common font, size, style, margins, alignments etc. For if I had a main class called Labels, then a subclass for each of those mentioned, then instances off each depending on the use, I could effectively change a property of a subclass and only the instances of that subclass would change, and only the properties of that subclass that were defined in that subclass. Visual Foxpro used to do (and probably still does) a very similar thing. It makes design 10 times faster, especially when you want to play around with different looks and feels. Could I just group all the objects on a form for a specific subclass? Sure, but I use groups for other things. I group a field and it's label so I can move them as one. I group certain objects so I can show and hide groups on a form depending on which tab was selected and so on. Also, only that group or card would change, and not other cards and stacks etc. One new message, propertyChanged would revolutionize the way design was done in LC. Bob S On Sep 1, 2022, at 13:23 , Mark Wieder via use-livecode > wrote: On 9/1/22 12:25, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: Hi all. I would like to see a propertyChanged message implemented that gets sent to any object when any of it's properties change. There could even be two messages, one for built-in properies and another for custom properties. Imagine being able to change the font or size of a particular object, and then having all the other objects that "subscribed" to that object's font or size property ALSO have their fonts change. It would then be possible to build a kind of Object Oriented environment. What say you? Why not just use the built-in hierarchy?: change the textfont of the parent object and all the child object automatically get the change. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Sep 1 16:40:26 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 20:40:26 +0000 Subject: propertyChanged message In-Reply-To: <8EF7D978-7EAA-4541-9128-BB426AC43F89@iotecdigital.com> References: <21EE8FB7-D2D3-45A6-A95F-844F542EA5BE@iotecdigital.com> <5a8dfc34-34c2-3a10-ea87-9d240e2f4860@sonic.net> <8EF7D978-7EAA-4541-9128-BB426AC43F89@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <25C7D47D-35DA-4D64-B6F8-1BFC08AD98ED@iotecdigital.com> Should have read, For INSTANCE, if I had a main class called Labels... On Sep 1, 2022, at 13:34 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode > wrote: For if I had a main class called Labels, From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Sep 1 16:42:04 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 13:42:04 -0700 Subject: propertyChanged message In-Reply-To: <21EE8FB7-D2D3-45A6-A95F-844F542EA5BE@iotecdigital.com> References: <21EE8FB7-D2D3-45A6-A95F-844F542EA5BE@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <721b6787-c546-d981-0cbe-cabe4651808d@fourthworld.com> Bob Sneidar wrote: > I would like to see a propertyChanged message implemented that gets > sent to any object when any of it's properties change. There could > even be two messages, one for built-in properies and another for > custom properties. I like the idea (I'd love messages for all sorts of things), but conversations with Dr Raney remind me of the impact messages have on overall performance. There are probably super-smart ways to implement things that don't have the drag on performance that mouseStillDown once imposed, or the limitations eventually placed on it to keep it from being a persistent source of performance loss. But cleverness comes at a cost of its own, in design, implementation, testing... This is worth considering, but perhaps we can start with the use case - thank you for providing this one: > Imagine being able to change the font or size of a particular object, > and then having all the other objects that "subscribed" to that > object's font or size property ALSO have their fonts change. It would > then be possible to build a kind of Object Oriented environment. OOP systems are largely defined by their object model. In LC's stack/card/control model, visual properties are inherited, so changing once at the stack level allows everything downstream to reflect the change, no code needed at all. I can see cases where it would be nice to have CSS-like classes, where we could define style properties in one place and have everything assigned to use that set of properties automatically reflect changes. I believe that level of style-sheet-like flexibility is something Mark Waddingham may have mentioned before. Bonus if it could use actual CSS syntax as an *option*, so newcomers can jump in quickly and old-timers can choose whether to enjoy the compactness of CSS or the completeness of LC Script, "set the x of y to x". There are of course ways to do things like this using custom props, and I'll go out on a limb to try to channel Dr Raney on this, based on conversation I'd had with him about messages: "Show me a use case where it's not possible to get what you need from a custom message, and I'll consider a way to override built-in messages." His concern with messages was two-fold: - Performance: the open-ended mechanism needed to allow overriding adds overhead to setting up the calling change each time the context changes, and sometimes during execution. - Consistency: it creates a world of unpredictability, where simply using someone's library can alter messages you've been relying on for years. I believe both of those can be seen as relevant to property changes. And with that view, one attempt to satisfy this is provided with virtual properties: getProp and setProp. Using custom prop names for custom behavior ensures that the built-in names will always reliably do what you expect, while still leaving open a boundless universe of options for custom behavior, simply by calling it via a custom name. Within a getProp or setProp handler, one can get and set any number of built-in properties, and also custom properties, and call commands and functions, and set properties of other objects, and do just about anything LC Script allows. Very powerful. I know you're already very familiar with getProp and setProp, as are most of the readers here. So I'm not re-introducing them to be pedantic, or to gatekeep your request. I'm merely trying to understand your request in terms of real-world development needs. So to help my understanding, I'll pose to you a variation of what Raney posed to me: "What are you working on that can't be done by having custom property handling accomplished via custom property names?" -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From paul at researchware.com Thu Sep 1 16:43:07 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 16:43:07 -0400 Subject: Text to speech In-Reply-To: <1208fc7b-7f41-131f-5767-d26ada36f378@hyperactivesw.com> References: <1208fc7b-7f41-131f-5767-d26ada36f378@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <17eef8bf-c4f2-c828-a5fb-1af24dd66f8f@researchware.com> On 9/1/2022 4:33 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > What library/commands do you use for text to speech? I see that > revSpeak works on Windows and Mac, and the speech library ("speech*") > works on android, iOS, and Mac. What do you use if you want to support > all four platforms? Do you just branch to revSpeak for Windows? > I think Panos just shows how to build a common text to speech library for all platforms from these two built-in in a recent Livecode Global problem solving session. From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Sep 1 17:21:42 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2022 16:21:42 -0500 Subject: Text to speech In-Reply-To: <17eef8bf-c4f2-c828-a5fb-1af24dd66f8f@researchware.com> References: <1208fc7b-7f41-131f-5767-d26ada36f378@hyperactivesw.com> <17eef8bf-c4f2-c828-a5fb-1af24dd66f8f@researchware.com> Message-ID: <182faee5e70.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Thank you. I keep missing the conferences and I need to watch them later. Do you happen to recall which one it was? It sounds like exactly what I'm looking for. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On September 1, 2022 3:44:56 PM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > On 9/1/2022 4:33 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >> What library/commands do you use for text to speech? I see that >> revSpeak works on Windows and Mac, and the speech library ("speech*") >> works on android, iOS, and Mac. What do you use if you want to support >> all four platforms? Do you just branch to revSpeak for Windows? >> > > I think Panos just shows how to build a common text to speech library > for all platforms from these two built-in in a recent Livecode Global > problem solving session. > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Thu Sep 1 17:35:05 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 17:35:05 -0400 Subject: Text to speech In-Reply-To: <182faee5e70.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <1208fc7b-7f41-131f-5767-d26ada36f378@hyperactivesw.com> <17eef8bf-c4f2-c828-a5fb-1af24dd66f8f@researchware.com> <182faee5e70.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: I think it was the July Problem solving session, but it could have been August's. I think July 14th's session. On 9/1/2022 5:21 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > Thank you. I keep missing the conferences and I need to watch them > later. Do you happen to recall which one it was? It sounds like > exactly what I'm looking for. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > On September 1, 2022 3:44:56 PM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode > wrote: > >> On 9/1/2022 4:33 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >>> What library/commands do you use for text to speech? I see that >>> revSpeak works on Windows and Mac, and the speech library ("speech*") >>> works on android, iOS, and Mac. What do you use if you want to support >>> all four platforms? Do you just branch to revSpeak for Windows? >>> >> >> I think Panos just shows how to build a common text to speech library >> for all platforms from these two built-in in a recent Livecode Global >> problem solving session. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From sean at pidigital.co.uk Thu Sep 1 17:38:18 2022 From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Pi Digital) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 22:38:18 +0100 Subject: Livecode / Github In-Reply-To: <025EAAAC-94C8-4F4C-A161-36F240D7E4A8@milby7.com> References: <025EAAAC-94C8-4F4C-A161-36F240D7E4A8@milby7.com> Message-ID: <8C49E7B5-1FE1-463D-8733-39903AB09E19@pidigital.co.uk> Fab :D however, ‘how’ does one… (i) set up a GitHub (I know how, this is for the benefit of others), (ii) perform commits, push, pulls (perhaps using LC and having an LC library/widget for this would be best), (iii) merge to a branch, (iv) switch branches All the while making it simple for even the most beginner of beginners to understand, like everything else in LC *Should be? It’s like giving us the front door but the hallway floor is missing. There is no guide on real world usage so we are left stranded with it. Here’s the actual situation myself and my colleague face. At the moment one of us works on the app, makes some changes, zips it up, and posts it up to a server. Then the other does the same ad infinitum. But what you have described is not much different. How can we really tell who made changes unless we know the uid for the script or card (for layout) or object? And are we all supposed to now become command line experts to manage an svc? I’m puzzled at the moment. It shows great promise, but it’s still not fully ready, is it. It’s usable, like LCB, if you can do lower level stuff. But not many using LC are able, hence why they use LC. Everything LC, and I mean everything, that is front end for LC users *Should, note, Should be High Level and easy to code & understand. The plug-in language for SmartCrumbs is dreamy. Thank you whoever came up with that. I love it! LCB is a nightmare and could have been done so much better - much more in line with the HyperCard principle. Sean Cole Pi > On 1 Sep 2022, at 20:13, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote: > > Here is the workflow that I think is intended: > > Export stack to files > Commit files to GitHub or other VCS > — > Fetch/pull latest from GitHub > Import stack from files > Make changes > Export stack to files > Commit changes to GitHub > — > At any point changes between branches can be merged due to structure of exports so you could have parallel development happening. > > Brian Milby > brian at milby7.com > >> On Sep 1, 2022, at 2:27 PM, Sean Cole via use-livecode wrote: >> >> I managed to get the stack and all substacks to export finally. There was >> an issue with an old extension library two of the stacks use (Chart Maker) >> so just removed the stacks for now and all ported properly. >> >> Now, it occurs to me that this is all well and good, but there is a lack of >> instruction on how to make use of it now. How do you link it to something >> like GitHub or some other external or local server? How do we collaborate >> with other users? How will they know which scripts are which when they only >> see a folder full or GUIDs? >> >> I 'think' these are valid questions. Or maybe I'm just stupid or missed >> something somewhere. >> >> By the way, here is an update to the plugin code: >> global gLastObject >> >> on savingProperties pLongId, @pProperteis >> // I'm loving all the typos like pProperteis - Really rushed out the >> door. >> put "saving properties of" && pLongId into gLastObject >> put gLastObject >> wait 0.001 millisec with messages >> end savingProperties >> >> on savingScript pLongId, @pScript >> put "saving script of" && pLongId into gLastObject >> put gLastObject >> wait 0.001 millisec with messages >> end savingScript >> >> Sean >> >>>> On Thu, 1 Sept 2022 at 05:08, Sean Cole wrote: >>> >>> Yeah, I could really do with it giving me some feedback as to where this >>> object is. Actually, I could... >>> ... I just wrote a plugin for it. Use scCreatePlugin "","" (scCreatePlugin >>> on its own doesn't work from the message box like the dictionary suggests). >>> Then in the script I used >>> >>> global gLastObject >>> >>> on savingProperties pLongId, @pProperteis >>> --> your code >>> put "saving properties of" && pLongId into gLastObject >>> put word -2 to -1 of gLastObject >>> wait 0.01 millisec with messages >>> end savingProperties >>> >>> ---- >>> >>> Once I ran this it displayed which substack it was working on in the >>> message box and once it had failed the global showed me the last parameter >>> it had successfully accessed. Cool. But I still can't work out which >>> parameter of either that object (a standard text field) or the next (a >>> group with no behaviours or anything out of the ordinary as far as I can >>> tell). I'll come back to it tomorrow. It's silly o'clock now. >>> >>> Sean >>> >>> On Wed, 31 Aug 2022 at 17:13, Mark Wieder via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>>>> On 8/31/22 03:00, Sean Cole via use-livecode wrote: >>>> >>>>> LC Team: :-) It would be REALLY handy if proper errors were thrown when >>>> one >>>>> occurs that can help us easily understand what the issues are. Also, if >>>>> prior to release documentation were gone through to make sure they are >>>>> legible. And if plugins released actually work as described. :-) >>>> >>>> Actually, it's even worse. >>>> The result is empty if no error occurred and "* successful" if it >>>> worked. To me that seems backwards. >>>> >>>> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23911 >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Mark Wieder >>>> ahsoftware at gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ahsoftware at sonic.net Thu Sep 1 17:43:40 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 14:43:40 -0700 Subject: Livecode / Github In-Reply-To: References: <9ECE2480-BAAB-4E8A-B97D-70F2153A91C3@pidigital.co.uk> <8b549acf-8e33-a468-d7e8-3c1fa6ce7c34@sonic.net> <56eb98b4-b369-aefa-54d3-eb12f220b87c@sonic.net> <3ba1188d-59d4-c5d7-3f8e-262529b5ccfc@sonic.net> Message-ID: <14ef8a68-f71e-0ae6-c7d6-cee5a15ede7a@sonic.net> On 9/1/22 11:25, Sean Cole via use-livecode wrote: > By the way, here is an update to the plugin code: Sean- good news that you got it working. How in the world did you manage that? I went through what I think are the right steps: scCreatePlugin "","" edit and save plugin code scInstallPlugin pPath scEnabledPlugin pPath scListPlugins() --- nothing (no array keys) scGetPathLog() --- recursion limit reached -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From sean at pidigital.co.uk Thu Sep 1 18:16:44 2022 From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Pi Digital) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 23:16:44 +0100 Subject: Livecode / Github In-Reply-To: <14ef8a68-f71e-0ae6-c7d6-cee5a15ede7a@sonic.net> References: <14ef8a68-f71e-0ae6-c7d6-cee5a15ede7a@sonic.net> Message-ID: <1C309D51-E467-41BB-8282-F0E7F9D36997@pidigital.co.uk> I don’t know who coded it but it really does not follow the standard LC conventions. I am going to assume it was someone external to LC so will cut them a huge bit of slack. It’s also very clear English is not their first language so they did pretty well considering. Here are the steps Create a new plug-in file using scCreatePlugin “”,”” This will first ask for a name and then for a folder location to put it. I put it into the MyLivecode folder in a subfolder called SmartCrumbsPlugins Edit the code as needed and save. Make sure to ONLY do this in LC, not Atom or another text editor. Next, use scInstallPlugin “” This will ask which plug-in to load Then scEnabledPlugin “myPlugin” where myPlugin is the name you have given it, which is not necessarily the same as the file name. This will make sure it is running the next time any SmartCrumbs import/export operation is performed. To find which plugins are installed and enabled, use put the keys of scListPlugins (“All”) To find the path where the logs are saved, use put scGetPathLog(“”) or put scGetPathLog() Either will work Sean Cole Pi Digital Productions Ltd eMail Ts & Cs > On 1 Sep 2022, at 22:43, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > > On 9/1/22 11:25, Sean Cole via use-livecode wrote: > >> By the way, here is an update to the plugin code: > > Sean- good news that you got it working. How in the world did you manage that? I went through what I think are the right steps: > > scCreatePlugin "","" > edit and save plugin code > scInstallPlugin pPath > scEnabledPlugin pPath > scListPlugins() --- nothing (no array keys) > scGetPathLog() --- recursion limit reached > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ahsoftware at sonic.net Thu Sep 1 18:48:47 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 15:48:47 -0700 Subject: Livecode / Github In-Reply-To: <1C309D51-E467-41BB-8282-F0E7F9D36997@pidigital.co.uk> References: <14ef8a68-f71e-0ae6-c7d6-cee5a15ede7a@sonic.net> <1C309D51-E467-41BB-8282-F0E7F9D36997@pidigital.co.uk> Message-ID: <9c8f45ac-f894-62cf-a318-6a1c3553f36c@sonic.net> On 9/1/22 15:16, Pi Digital via use-livecode wrote: > Here are the steps Yep. Exactly what I did. Oh well. \_ ()_/ -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From sean at pidigital.co.uk Thu Sep 1 18:55:25 2022 From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Pi Digital) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 23:55:25 +0100 Subject: Livecode / Github In-Reply-To: <9c8f45ac-f894-62cf-a318-6a1c3553f36c@sonic.net> References: <9c8f45ac-f894-62cf-a318-6a1c3553f36c@sonic.net> Message-ID: <426260FD-18BC-48A1-987F-E578E58E904B@pidigital.co.uk> LC9.6.7? Sean Cole Pi Digital Productions Ltd eMail Ts & Cs > On 1 Sep 2022, at 23:48, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > > On 9/1/22 15:16, Pi Digital via use-livecode wrote: > >> Here are the steps > > Yep. Exactly what I did. > Oh well. ¯\_ (ツ)_/¯ > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ahsoftware at sonic.net Thu Sep 1 19:18:28 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 16:18:28 -0700 Subject: Livecode / Github In-Reply-To: <426260FD-18BC-48A1-987F-E578E58E904B@pidigital.co.uk> References: <9c8f45ac-f894-62cf-a318-6a1c3553f36c@sonic.net> <426260FD-18BC-48A1-987F-E578E58E904B@pidigital.co.uk> Message-ID: <7fc73425-9234-a8d2-d6c8-449625defc7a@sonic.net> On 9/1/22 15:55, Pi Digital via use-livecode wrote: > LC9.6.7? 9.6.9rc1 -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Sep 1 20:18:15 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 00:18:15 +0000 Subject: propertyChanged message In-Reply-To: <721b6787-c546-d981-0cbe-cabe4651808d@fourthworld.com> References: <21EE8FB7-D2D3-45A6-A95F-844F542EA5BE@iotecdigital.com> <721b6787-c546-d981-0cbe-cabe4651808d@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: As I see it working in my head, property changes, at least built in properties, would typically only be triggered in the IDE. Custom properties are another matter. Set those aside f or a moment. If we are only talking about built in properties, then the message would almost never get sent unless the developer was doing design work. And if the message never got handled, it would just fall through the message path. Not sure what kind of performance overhead that implies, but it can't be much in the scope of making changes to object properties while designing. Heck, just open the message watcher with IDE messages enabled, and the messages going by are so voluminous clicking something clears the buffer before you can see what just happened. :-) In regards to "another way to do it" I suppose an entire utility stack and library could be written and objects subscribing to classes and subclasses would simply register themselves with the utility stack, but that would mean the utility stack would be the focus of any design changes. If the developer made any out of band changes to any object that was subscribed to a subclass, how would he know? But if a propertyChanged message was sent to the object, the developer handling the message could be alerted that the property was inherited from a subclass and he is about to override it. There is no present way to accomplish this. So IMHO performance would not be an issue if custom properties were excluded from the process, or if two different messages were sent, one for custom properties and one for built in, leaving it up to the developer which to handle. Also I think that if properly implemented, it would add even more consistency to the design process. The message could be one of those that can be handled without blocking it, so I don't think it would necessarily interfere with other libraries that depended on the messages. I see your point with CSS. That would be viable if the only properties we wanted to inherit were able to be defined with CSS. I don't know much about CSS, but if all the aspects of an object could be addressed in this way, and if modifying the Style Sheet would cascade down to all the objects using it, then I suppose that would accomplish the same thing. Bob S On Sep 1, 2022, at 13:42 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode > wrote: Bob Sneidar wrote: > I would like to see a propertyChanged message implemented that gets > sent to any object when any of it's properties change. There could > even be two messages, one for built-in properies and another for > custom properties. I like the idea (I'd love messages for all sorts of things), but conversations with Dr Raney remind me of the impact messages have on overall performance. From ahsoftware at sonic.net Thu Sep 1 21:03:49 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 18:03:49 -0700 Subject: Livecode / Github In-Reply-To: <426260FD-18BC-48A1-987F-E578E58E904B@pidigital.co.uk> References: <9c8f45ac-f894-62cf-a318-6a1c3553f36c@sonic.net> <426260FD-18BC-48A1-987F-E578E58E904B@pidigital.co.uk> Message-ID: <5495add8-b356-ddb9-e934-ee09f27e946e@sonic.net> Got it figured out. It just doesn't work on linux. On OSX when executing scEnabledPlugin I get the error A stack with the same name as ... Before loading /Users//Documents/My LiveCode/SmartCrumbsVCW/extensions... what do you want to do with stack: /Users//Downloads/smartCrumbs/... So it looks like scInstallPlugin installs a copy of the plugin into a *very* specific hardcoded directory, no matter where I placed the source to start with. And no doubt calls specialFolderPath("documents") in order to figure out where that should be.... and of course that call doesn't work on linux, so it probably just gives up silently. I'm guessing the correct call should really be to revEnvironmentUserPluginsPath(). Not going to bother filing a bug on this. I rather expect LC to drop linux support any day now anyway. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From brian at milby7.com Thu Sep 1 21:24:33 2022 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 21:24:33 -0400 Subject: Livecode / Github In-Reply-To: <8C49E7B5-1FE1-463D-8733-39903AB09E19@pidigital.co.uk> References: <025EAAAC-94C8-4F4C-A161-36F240D7E4A8@milby7.com> <8C49E7B5-1FE1-463D-8733-39903AB09E19@pidigital.co.uk> Message-ID: I think some of this is a bit too much to address in a list post. I'll make some comments though. (i) Make a repo at https://github.com; https://www.atlassian.com/git/tutorials/setting-up-a-repository; you can view tons of docs at https://docs.github.com/en (ii)-(iv) I use https://www.sourcetreeapp.com (Mac and Win app available) to manage my repos (many other options available). They also have other tutorials at https://www.atlassian.com/git When you create a GitHub repository currently, it will make a default branch called "main". Initially you would take your stack and commit (really another word for "save") to the main branch. If you had 2 developers that were working on the same stack at the same time, then one way would be to have 2 branches off of main. Let's say "brian" and "sean" for example. So each of us would check out our branch (initially the same as main). We would make any changes we needed and each would commit to our own branch. When whatever we are working on is ready to incorporate into the product, we would merge our branch into the main branch. Since everything is text files (except for the images and other binary resources like that), git can detect which pieces have changed and integrate them together. So instead of a zip going back and forth of the full project, the individual changes would be tracked and integrated. The biggest difference is that multiple developers can work on the same stack at the same time and have their changes integrated together. The down side that I do see with this implementation is that it is difficult to know what object is being changed. Since everything is stored by GUID it can be hard to know what is being updated by looking at the commit logs. Due to the Mac CR issue, I probably won't be able to do much for demonstrating how it works until there is a good workaround (I guess I could manually convert the JSON each time for now). I did fix the JSON file on my ScriptTracker repo so it could be viewed on GitHub. I need to make a change to a script that hasn't been fixed to see how it shows up. The JSON fix showed pretty much as a whole new file (line 1 was updated to lines 1-1000+). My approach with ScriptTracker is a bit different. First is that my tool is much more limited (just does the scripts). But, my tool adds a bit of information to the header of each exported script to give it context and the scripts are named by the object ID (mainly to avoid issues with illegal characters in the object name). It might be something that could be done with plugins to add some info to the JSON and script files. I'll need to take a look - it would make working with the scripts easier. For the JSON, I think it may be helpful to have full object names included with the GUID so you have more of an idea what was changed when looking at the diff. Also, if you just want to track your changes (and not work with another dev to merge), it does get a bit easier. Then you don't even need to use a server (GitHub) but can run git completely on your seat. The same GUI tools mentioned above can be used there as well. Command line tools are there but not required. As I mentioned above, I use a GUI for just about all of my git usage. They make it easy to see what happened and when. Hopefully this helps a little. I think there are a couple of videos from conferences over the past few years covering Git. I know that there is at least one that I did (but it was targeted at building LC from source). Thanks, Brian On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 5:39 PM Pi Digital via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Fab :D > > however, ‘how’ does one… > (i) set up a GitHub (I know how, this is for the benefit of others), > (ii) perform commits, push, pulls (perhaps using LC and having an LC > library/widget for this would be best), > (iii) merge to a branch, > (iv) switch branches > All the while making it simple for even the most beginner of beginners to > understand, like everything else in LC *Should be? > > It’s like giving us the front door but the hallway floor is missing. > > There is no guide on real world usage so we are left stranded with it. > > Here’s the actual situation myself and my colleague face. At the moment > one of us works on the app, makes some changes, zips it up, and posts it up > to a server. Then the other does the same ad infinitum. > > But what you have described is not much different. How can we really tell > who made changes unless we know the uid for the script or card (for layout) > or object? And are we all supposed to now become command line experts to > manage an svc? I’m puzzled at the moment. > > It shows great promise, but it’s still not fully ready, is it. It’s > usable, like LCB, if you can do lower level stuff. But not many using LC > are able, hence why they use LC. Everything LC, and I mean everything, that > is front end for LC users *Should, note, Should be High Level and easy to > code & understand. The plug-in language for SmartCrumbs is dreamy. Thank > you whoever came up with that. I love it! LCB is a nightmare and could have > been done so much better - much more in line with the HyperCard principle. > > Sean Cole > Pi > > From brian at milby7.com Thu Sep 1 21:29:24 2022 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 21:29:24 -0400 Subject: Livecode / Github In-Reply-To: <5495add8-b356-ddb9-e934-ee09f27e946e@sonic.net> References: <9c8f45ac-f894-62cf-a318-6a1c3553f36c@sonic.net> <426260FD-18BC-48A1-987F-E578E58E904B@pidigital.co.uk> <5495add8-b356-ddb9-e934-ee09f27e946e@sonic.net> Message-ID: Actually, that is a bug that needs to be fixed. I don't have "My Livecode" running from my documents folder. So the extension itself is in the correct place, but all of the stuff it writes is in the wrong place. On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 9:04 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Got it figured out. It just doesn't work on linux. > > On OSX when executing scEnabledPlugin I get the error > > A stack with the same name as ... > Before loading /Users//Documents/My > LiveCode/SmartCrumbsVCW/extensions... > what do you want to do with stack: > /Users//Downloads/smartCrumbs/... > > So it looks like scInstallPlugin installs a copy of the plugin into a > *very* specific hardcoded directory, no matter where I placed the source > to start with. And no doubt calls specialFolderPath("documents") in > order to figure out where that should be.... and of course that call > doesn't work on linux, so it probably just gives up silently. I'm > guessing the correct call should really be to > revEnvironmentUserPluginsPath(). > > Not going to bother filing a bug on this. I rather expect LC to drop > linux support any day now anyway. > > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From sean at pidigital.co.uk Thu Sep 1 21:40:35 2022 From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Pi Digital) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 02:40:35 +0100 Subject: Livecode / Github In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9C0883F5-62DA-4179-B039-915398FF1C7E@pidigital.co.uk> Thanks Brian for your comprehensive response. What I meant was, though, that ‘ideally’ we need some instructions in the Guide and preferably a GUI for github and the like built into LC specifically for SmartCrumbs. That way the UIDs can be auto converted to the object names and laid out in filestruct format to make sense. Roundtripping to SourceTree or anything else is not really what we want, is it? Let me see if I get a chance to knock something up quickly over the weekend. I need to try out these new polylist and polygrid widgets anyway. Linking it to GitHub and remote servers shouldn’t be an issue. I understand how they work so I won’t have a problem. It just needs to be made much much simpler for others. Sean Cole Pi Digital Productions Ltd eMail Ts & Cs > On 2 Sep 2022, at 02:26, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote: > > I think some of this is a bit too much to address in a list post. I'll > make some comments though. > (i) Make a repo at https://github.com; > https://www.atlassian.com/git/tutorials/setting-up-a-repository; you can > view tons of docs at https://docs.github.com/en > (ii)-(iv) I use https://www.sourcetreeapp.com (Mac and Win app available) > to manage my repos (many other options available). They also have other > tutorials at https://www.atlassian.com/git > > When you create a GitHub repository currently, it will make a default > branch called "main". Initially you would take your stack and commit > (really another word for "save") to the main branch. If you had 2 > developers that were working on the same stack at the same time, then one > way would be to have 2 branches off of main. Let's say "brian" and "sean" > for example. So each of us would check out our branch (initially the same > as main). We would make any changes we needed and each would commit to our > own branch. When whatever we are working on is ready to incorporate into > the product, we would merge our branch into the main branch. Since > everything is text files (except for the images and other binary resources > like that), git can detect which pieces have changed and integrate them > together. So instead of a zip going back and forth of the full project, > the individual changes would be tracked and integrated. The biggest > difference is that multiple developers can work on the same stack at the > same time and have their changes integrated together. > > The down side that I do see with this implementation is that it is > difficult to know what object is being changed. Since everything is stored > by GUID it can be hard to know what is being updated by looking at the > commit logs. Due to the Mac CR issue, I probably won't be able to do much > for demonstrating how it works until there is a good workaround (I guess I > could manually convert the JSON each time for now). I did fix the JSON > file on my ScriptTracker repo so it could be viewed on GitHub. I need to > make a change to a script that hasn't been fixed to see how it shows up. > The JSON fix showed pretty much as a whole new file (line 1 was updated to > lines 1-1000+). > > My approach with ScriptTracker is a bit different. First is that my tool > is much more limited (just does the scripts). But, my tool adds a bit of > information to the header of each exported script to give it context and > the scripts are named by the object ID (mainly to avoid issues with illegal > characters in the object name). It might be something that could be done > with plugins to add some info to the JSON and script files. I'll need to > take a look - it would make working with the scripts easier. For the JSON, > I think it may be helpful to have full object names included with the GUID > so you have more of an idea what was changed when looking at the diff. > > Also, if you just want to track your changes (and not work with another dev > to merge), it does get a bit easier. Then you don't even need to use a > server (GitHub) but can run git completely on your seat. The same GUI > tools mentioned above can be used there as well. > > Command line tools are there but not required. As I mentioned above, I use > a GUI for just about all of my git usage. They make it easy to see what > happened and when. > > Hopefully this helps a little. I think there are a couple of videos from > conferences over the past few years covering Git. I know that there is at > least one that I did (but it was targeted at building LC from source). > > Thanks, > Brian > >> On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 5:39 PM Pi Digital via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >> Fab :D >> >> however, ‘how’ does one… >> (i) set up a GitHub (I know how, this is for the benefit of others), >> (ii) perform commits, push, pulls (perhaps using LC and having an LC >> library/widget for this would be best), >> (iii) merge to a branch, >> (iv) switch branches >> All the while making it simple for even the most beginner of beginners to >> understand, like everything else in LC *Should be? >> >> It’s like giving us the front door but the hallway floor is missing. >> >> There is no guide on real world usage so we are left stranded with it. >> >> Here’s the actual situation myself and my colleague face. At the moment >> one of us works on the app, makes some changes, zips it up, and posts it up >> to a server. Then the other does the same ad infinitum. >> >> But what you have described is not much different. How can we really tell >> who made changes unless we know the uid for the script or card (for layout) >> or object? And are we all supposed to now become command line experts to >> manage an svc? I’m puzzled at the moment. >> >> It shows great promise, but it’s still not fully ready, is it. It’s >> usable, like LCB, if you can do lower level stuff. But not many using LC >> are able, hence why they use LC. Everything LC, and I mean everything, that >> is front end for LC users *Should, note, Should be High Level and easy to >> code & understand. The plug-in language for SmartCrumbs is dreamy. Thank >> you whoever came up with that. I love it! LCB is a nightmare and could have >> been done so much better - much more in line with the HyperCard principle. >> >> Sean Cole >> Pi >> >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From brian at milby7.com Thu Sep 1 21:47:44 2022 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 21:47:44 -0400 Subject: Livecode / Github In-Reply-To: References: <9c8f45ac-f894-62cf-a318-6a1c3553f36c@sonic.net> <426260FD-18BC-48A1-987F-E578E58E904B@pidigital.co.uk> <5495add8-b356-ddb9-e934-ee09f27e946e@sonic.net> Message-ID: Mark, this is the same bug that you already filed: https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23910 On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 9:29 PM Brian Milby wrote: > Actually, that is a bug that needs to be fixed. I don't have "My > Livecode" running from my documents folder. So the extension itself is in > the correct place, but all of the stuff it writes is in the wrong place. > > On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 9:04 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Got it figured out. It just doesn't work on linux. >> >> On OSX when executing scEnabledPlugin I get the error >> >> A stack with the same name as ... >> Before loading /Users//Documents/My >> LiveCode/SmartCrumbsVCW/extensions... >> what do you want to do with stack: >> /Users//Downloads/smartCrumbs/... >> >> So it looks like scInstallPlugin installs a copy of the plugin into a >> *very* specific hardcoded directory, no matter where I placed the source >> to start with. And no doubt calls specialFolderPath("documents") in >> order to figure out where that should be.... and of course that call >> doesn't work on linux, so it probably just gives up silently. I'm >> guessing the correct call should really be to >> revEnvironmentUserPluginsPath(). >> >> Not going to bother filing a bug on this. I rather expect LC to drop >> linux support any day now anyway. >> >> >> -- >> Mark Wieder >> ahsoftware at gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > From brian at milby7.com Thu Sep 1 22:23:24 2022 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 22:23:24 -0400 Subject: Livecode / Github In-Reply-To: <9C0883F5-62DA-4179-B039-915398FF1C7E@pidigital.co.uk> References: <9C0883F5-62DA-4179-B039-915398FF1C7E@pidigital.co.uk> Message-ID: I would agree that a LC specific (smartcrumbs specific actually) interface to git would be helpful. On the back end, it would just be native git add/commit/push/fetch/pull/merge commands to get data into the repository. The JSON file structure looks to be a mainstack key with the GUID value and then GUID keys for each stack in the file that have all objects as a dictionary. It should be relatively easy to turn it into an array. The challenge will be dealing with diffs. The structure is something like this: { "guid of stack a": { "object guid": { } }, "guid of stack b": { "guid of stack b": { "name": "Main Stack Name" } }, "mainstack": "guid of stack b" } On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 9:41 PM Pi Digital via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Thanks Brian for your comprehensive response. What I meant was, though, > that ‘ideally’ we need some instructions in the Guide and preferably a GUI > for github and the like built into LC specifically for SmartCrumbs. That > way the UIDs can be auto converted to the object names and laid out in > filestruct format to make sense. Roundtripping to SourceTree or anything > else is not really what we want, is it? > > Let me see if I get a chance to knock something up quickly over the > weekend. I need to try out these new polylist and polygrid widgets anyway. > Linking it to GitHub and remote servers shouldn’t be an issue. I understand > how they work so I won’t have a problem. It just needs to be made much much > simpler for others. > > Sean Cole > Pi Digital Productions Ltd > > eMail Ts & Cs > > > > On 2 Sep 2022, at 02:26, Brian Milby via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > I think some of this is a bit too much to address in a list post. I'll > > make some comments though. > > (i) Make a repo at https://github.com; > > https://www.atlassian.com/git/tutorials/setting-up-a-repository; you can > > view tons of docs at https://docs.github.com/en > > (ii)-(iv) I use https://www.sourcetreeapp.com (Mac and Win app > available) > > to manage my repos (many other options available). They also have other > > tutorials at https://www.atlassian.com/git > > > > When you create a GitHub repository currently, it will make a default > > branch called "main". Initially you would take your stack and commit > > (really another word for "save") to the main branch. If you had 2 > > developers that were working on the same stack at the same time, then one > > way would be to have 2 branches off of main. Let's say "brian" and > "sean" > > for example. So each of us would check out our branch (initially the > same > > as main). We would make any changes we needed and each would commit to > our > > own branch. When whatever we are working on is ready to incorporate into > > the product, we would merge our branch into the main branch. Since > > everything is text files (except for the images and other binary > resources > > like that), git can detect which pieces have changed and integrate them > > together. So instead of a zip going back and forth of the full project, > > the individual changes would be tracked and integrated. The biggest > > difference is that multiple developers can work on the same stack at the > > same time and have their changes integrated together. > > > > The down side that I do see with this implementation is that it is > > difficult to know what object is being changed. Since everything is > stored > > by GUID it can be hard to know what is being updated by looking at the > > commit logs. Due to the Mac CR issue, I probably won't be able to do > much > > for demonstrating how it works until there is a good workaround (I guess > I > > could manually convert the JSON each time for now). I did fix the JSON > > file on my ScriptTracker repo so it could be viewed on GitHub. I need to > > make a change to a script that hasn't been fixed to see how it shows up. > > The JSON fix showed pretty much as a whole new file (line 1 was updated > to > > lines 1-1000+). > > > > My approach with ScriptTracker is a bit different. First is that my tool > > is much more limited (just does the scripts). But, my tool adds a bit of > > information to the header of each exported script to give it context and > > the scripts are named by the object ID (mainly to avoid issues with > illegal > > characters in the object name). It might be something that could be done > > with plugins to add some info to the JSON and script files. I'll need to > > take a look - it would make working with the scripts easier. For the > JSON, > > I think it may be helpful to have full object names included with the > GUID > > so you have more of an idea what was changed when looking at the diff. > > > > Also, if you just want to track your changes (and not work with another > dev > > to merge), it does get a bit easier. Then you don't even need to use a > > server (GitHub) but can run git completely on your seat. The same GUI > > tools mentioned above can be used there as well. > > > > Command line tools are there but not required. As I mentioned above, I > use > > a GUI for just about all of my git usage. They make it easy to see what > > happened and when. > > > > Hopefully this helps a little. I think there are a couple of videos from > > conferences over the past few years covering Git. I know that there is > at > > least one that I did (but it was targeted at building LC from source). > > > > Thanks, > > Brian > > > >> On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 5:39 PM Pi Digital via use-livecode < > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> > >> Fab :D > >> > >> however, ‘how’ does one… > >> (i) set up a GitHub (I know how, this is for the benefit of others), > >> (ii) perform commits, push, pulls (perhaps using LC and having an LC > >> library/widget for this would be best), > >> (iii) merge to a branch, > >> (iv) switch branches > >> All the while making it simple for even the most beginner of beginners > to > >> understand, like everything else in LC *Should be? > >> > >> It’s like giving us the front door but the hallway floor is missing. > >> > >> There is no guide on real world usage so we are left stranded with it. > >> > >> Here’s the actual situation myself and my colleague face. At the moment > >> one of us works on the app, makes some changes, zips it up, and posts > it up > >> to a server. Then the other does the same ad infinitum. > >> > >> But what you have described is not much different. How can we really > tell > >> who made changes unless we know the uid for the script or card (for > layout) > >> or object? And are we all supposed to now become command line experts to > >> manage an svc? I’m puzzled at the moment. > >> > >> It shows great promise, but it’s still not fully ready, is it. It’s > >> usable, like LCB, if you can do lower level stuff. But not many using LC > >> are able, hence why they use LC. Everything LC, and I mean everything, > that > >> is front end for LC users *Should, note, Should be High Level and easy > to > >> code & understand. The plug-in language for SmartCrumbs is dreamy. Thank > >> you whoever came up with that. I love it! LCB is a nightmare and could > have > >> been done so much better - much more in line with the HyperCard > principle. > >> > >> Sean Cole > >> Pi > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Fri Sep 2 02:18:13 2022 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 16:18:13 +1000 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance Message-ID: <2D910BA5-56BF-4F58-BF20-F248F1A5296F@optusnet.com.au> Standardising fonts, so that one would no longer have to check that every label and field carefully crafted on the Mac to fit text precisely would not have missing pixels or whole words wrapped out of sight on Windows because of different font metrics, sounds like a great idea. But the reality of the way systems render fonts seems to complicate things: I set up a test standalone with the Google fonts NotoSans-regular.ttf and NotoSerif-regular.ttf installed. A label and and single line text field were set up to be exactly the right size to fit some text using Arial font on a Mac (Monterey). Then the labels and field were set to use NotoSans or NotoSerif fonts. There does still appear to be a small difference in the baselines for the two fonts between Mac and Windows, possibly more than the difference between Arial on the two platforms, so that I think pixels could be cut off under some circumstances. Bizarrely there is a bigger difference between NotoSerif as rendered on Monterey and High Sierra — on High Sierra the space character seems to be more compressible when the system tries to fit a right-justified label into a given length - or possibly the 8pixel margins are honoured on High Sierra, whereas on Monterey the text just overwrote the left margin? When it comes to Linux (Ubuntu) however everything came unstuck. The NotoSans text renders much wider, wrapping the final word of a piece of text to the next line. At least I think it is using NotoSans: LC lists the NotoSans and NotoSerif files as in use, but the Serif font just doesn’t render at all (that is, it does not change the displayed text)! It could be the system is substituting another font entirely for NotoSans, and not recognising NotoSerif [does the font have to be set to NotoSerif-regular on Linux rather than NotoSerif??]. I need to make a more detailed comparisons. I presume the LC text measurement functions return the exact pixel height and width that the text will use when rendered by the iterating system, but can I get the bottom-right of its rect? And the actual font the system will employ? Neville From gcanyon at gmail.com Fri Sep 2 04:00:27 2022 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 01:00:27 -0700 Subject: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: <951cdea0-756c-3d78-97f4-448ee7baa13f@fourthworld.com> References: <951cdea0-756c-3d78-97f4-448ee7baa13f@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 10:08 AM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Its much faster than C but slower than Script. Should that be "much slower than C but faster than Script"? In which case, what happened to the "faster than script" part? From gcanyon at gmail.com Fri Sep 2 04:05:30 2022 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 01:05:30 -0700 Subject: Stylistic question. In-Reply-To: <990BFD28-D609-4498-9DF0-A80E605861C4@iotecdigital.com> References: <1818ceeb0b0.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <990BFD28-D609-4498-9DF0-A80E605861C4@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 10:32 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I will however ask for just one enhancement: If I am filtering the list > and have an item or items selected, and then I clear the filter, it also > clears the selection. It would be great if the selection could be > maintained or restored. > I'm surprised it doesn't actually. I'll take a look. And: thanks for the kind words. I'm still surprised by its longevity. gc From merakosp at gmail.com Fri Sep 2 04:24:24 2022 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis m) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 11:24:24 +0300 Subject: Text to speech In-Reply-To: References: <1208fc7b-7f41-131f-5767-d26ada36f378@hyperactivesw.com> <17eef8bf-c4f2-c828-a5fb-1af24dd66f8f@researchware.com> <182faee5e70.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Hello all, Yes, we discussed this topic in August's Problem Solving session. The stack presented supports text-to-speech in all platforms (including Linux and Web). Kind regards, Panos -- On Fri, 2 Sept 2022 at 00:36, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I think it was the July Problem solving session, but it could have been > August's. I think July 14th's session. > > > > On 9/1/2022 5:21 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > > Thank you. I keep missing the conferences and I need to watch them > > later. Do you happen to recall which one it was? It sounds like > > exactly what I'm looking for. > > > > -- > > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > On September 1, 2022 3:44:56 PM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode > > wrote: > > > >> On 9/1/2022 4:33 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > >>> What library/commands do you use for text to speech? I see that > >>> revSpeak works on Windows and Mac, and the speech library ("speech*") > >>> works on android, iOS, and Mac. What do you use if you want to support > >>> all four platforms? Do you just branch to revSpeak for Windows? > >>> > >> > >> I think Panos just shows how to build a common text to speech library > >> for all platforms from these two built-in in a recent Livecode Global > >> problem solving session. > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 2 10:53:25 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 14:53:25 +0000 Subject: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <951cdea0-756c-3d78-97f4-448ee7baa13f@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <35D81BBE-2D4A-4B61-80AB-3ED4C5DF2229@iotecdigital.com> Or slower than both? As I understand it, LCB has the capability to call C externals which themselves would be faster than anything, but on it's own it is slower than both. Bob S On Sep 2, 2022, at 01:00 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode > wrote: On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 10:08 AM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: Its much faster than C but slower than Script. Should that be "much slower than C but faster than Script"? In which case, what happened to the "faster than script" part? From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 2 10:59:25 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 14:59:25 +0000 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: <2D910BA5-56BF-4F58-BF20-F248F1A5296F@optusnet.com.au> References: <2D910BA5-56BF-4F58-BF20-F248F1A5296F@optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <82919547-9C9B-4117-A9B1-BF0EC4A2F37A@iotecdigital.com> I read a blog some years back why it is so difficult to get nything on Windows to look like it does on the Mac. It is true that Windows renders fonts differently that Mac, so "exactly the same" remains the realm of the imagined. But you can get close. My big issue was that using Arial, labels that were right aligned and auto fitted on the Mac would overflow the left f the label on Windows. Now I am using Aclonica for form headers, Acme for labels and Actor for fields, buttons and grids. (Didn't have to look far did I?) I'm pretty happy now with the rendering of each on both platforms. Bob S On Sep 1, 2022, at 23:18 , Neville Smythe via use-livecode > wrote: Standardising fonts, so that one would no longer have to check that every label and field carefully crafted on the Mac to fit text precisely would not have missing pixels or whole words wrapped out of sight on Windows because of different font metrics, sounds like a great idea. But the reality of the way systems render fonts seems to complicate things: I set up a test standalone with the Google fonts NotoSans-regular.ttf and NotoSerif-regular.ttf installed. A label and and single line text field were set up to be exactly the right size to fit some text using Arial font on a Mac (Monterey). Then the labels and field were set to use NotoSans or NotoSerif fonts. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Fri Sep 2 11:09:44 2022 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 18:09:44 +0300 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: <82919547-9C9B-4117-A9B1-BF0EC4A2F37A@iotecdigital.com> References: <2D910BA5-56BF-4F58-BF20-F248F1A5296F@optusnet.com.au> <82919547-9C9B-4117-A9B1-BF0EC4A2F37A@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: For what it's worth, ever since my Master's thesis with LiveCode/RunRev, I have always set up buttons with fonts the way I want them on whatever platform, imported snapshots of those buttons, and used those images as buttons. No stress, No mess! On Fri, 2 Sept 2022, 18:00 Bob Sneidar via use-livecode, < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I read a blog some years back why it is so difficult to get nything on > Windows to look like it does on the Mac. It is true that Windows renders > fonts differently that Mac, so "exactly the same" remains the realm of the > imagined. But you can get close. My big issue was that using Arial, labels > that were right aligned and auto fitted on the Mac would overflow the left > f the label on Windows. > > Now I am using Aclonica for form headers, Acme for labels and Actor for > fields, buttons and grids. (Didn't have to look far did I?) I'm pretty > happy now with the rendering of each on both platforms. > > Bob S > > > On Sep 1, 2022, at 23:18 , Neville Smythe via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> > wrote: > > Standardising fonts, so that one would no longer have to check that every > label and field carefully crafted on the Mac to fit text precisely would > not have missing pixels or whole words wrapped out of sight on Windows > because of different font metrics, sounds like a great idea. But the > reality of the way systems render fonts seems to complicate things: > > I set up a test standalone with the Google fonts NotoSans-regular.ttf and > NotoSerif-regular.ttf installed. A label and and single line text field > were set up to be exactly the right size to fit some text using Arial font > on a Mac (Monterey). Then the labels and field were set to use NotoSans or > NotoSerif fonts. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri Sep 2 11:11:33 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 11:11:33 -0400 Subject: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: <35D81BBE-2D4A-4B61-80AB-3ED4C5DF2229@iotecdigital.com> References: <951cdea0-756c-3d78-97f4-448ee7baa13f@fourthworld.com> <35D81BBE-2D4A-4B61-80AB-3ED4C5DF2229@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: I wonder why the polygrid is so much faster than the datagrid at rendering, then, in the demo On Fri, Sep 2, 2022 at 10:54 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Or slower than both? As I understand it, LCB has the capability to call C > externals which themselves would be faster than anything, but on it's own > it is slower than both. > > Bob S > > > On Sep 2, 2022, at 01:00 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> > wrote: > > On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 10:08 AM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> > wrote: > > Its much faster than C but slower than Script. > > Should that be "much slower than C but faster than Script"? > > In which case, what happened to the "faster than script" part? > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Sep 2 11:21:01 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2022 10:21:01 -0500 Subject: Text to speech In-Reply-To: References: <1208fc7b-7f41-131f-5767-d26ada36f378@hyperactivesw.com> <17eef8bf-c4f2-c828-a5fb-1af24dd66f8f@researchware.com> <182faee5e70.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <182feca8348.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Fantastic, thank you both. You've saved me hours of time. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On September 2, 2022 3:26:38 AM panagiotis m via use-livecode wrote: > Hello all, > > Yes, we discussed this topic in August's Problem Solving session. The stack > presented supports text-to-speech in all platforms (including Linux and > Web). > > Kind regards, > Panos > -- > > On Fri, 2 Sept 2022 at 00:36, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> I think it was the July Problem solving session, but it could have been >> August's. I think July 14th's session. From ahsoftware at sonic.net Fri Sep 2 11:21:49 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 08:21:49 -0700 Subject: Livecode / Github In-Reply-To: References: <9c8f45ac-f894-62cf-a318-6a1c3553f36c@sonic.net> <426260FD-18BC-48A1-987F-E578E58E904B@pidigital.co.uk> <5495add8-b356-ddb9-e934-ee09f27e946e@sonic.net> Message-ID: On 9/1/22 18:47, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote: > Mark, this is the same bug that you already filed: > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23910 Hah! Forgot about that one. Same root cause but different symptoms, since it also results in a complete failure of the Plugins feature without throwing any errors. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From tom at makeshyft.com Fri Sep 2 12:40:58 2022 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 12:40:58 -0400 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: References: <2D910BA5-56BF-4F58-BF20-F248F1A5296F@optusnet.com.au> <82919547-9C9B-4117-A9B1-BF0EC4A2F37A@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Bob, if you really wanna think about the user, check out resource such as this: https://www.vandelaydesign.com/google-font-pairings/ On Fri, Sep 2, 2022 at 11:10 AM Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > For what it's worth, ever since my Master's thesis with LiveCode/RunRev, I > have always set up buttons with fonts the way I want them on whatever > platform, imported snapshots of those buttons, and used those images as > buttons. > > No stress, No mess! > > On Fri, 2 Sept 2022, 18:00 Bob Sneidar via use-livecode, < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > I read a blog some years back why it is so difficult to get nything on > > Windows to look like it does on the Mac. It is true that Windows renders > > fonts differently that Mac, so "exactly the same" remains the realm of > the > > imagined. But you can get close. My big issue was that using Arial, > labels > > that were right aligned and auto fitted on the Mac would overflow the > left > > f the label on Windows. > > > > Now I am using Aclonica for form headers, Acme for labels and Actor for > > fields, buttons and grids. (Didn't have to look far did I?) I'm pretty > > happy now with the rendering of each on both platforms. > > > > Bob S > > > > > > On Sep 1, 2022, at 23:18 , Neville Smythe via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> > > wrote: > > > > Standardising fonts, so that one would no longer have to check that every > > label and field carefully crafted on the Mac to fit text precisely would > > not have missing pixels or whole words wrapped out of sight on Windows > > because of different font metrics, sounds like a great idea. But the > > reality of the way systems render fonts seems to complicate things: > > > > I set up a test standalone with the Google fonts NotoSans-regular.ttf and > > NotoSerif-regular.ttf installed. A label and and single line text field > > were set up to be exactly the right size to fit some text using Arial > font > > on a Mac (Monterey). Then the labels and field were set to use NotoSans > or > > NotoSerif fonts. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From jacques.clavel at gmail.com Fri Sep 2 13:43:21 2022 From: jacques.clavel at gmail.com (Jacques Clavel) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 19:43:21 +0200 Subject: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <951cdea0-756c-3d78-97f4-448ee7baa13f@fourthworld.com> <35D81BBE-2D4A-4B61-80AB-3ED4C5DF2229@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: As a typed language, LCB should be more efficient than LCS. Writing programs in LCB is more difficult and time consuming (bogs...) than using higher level language (LCS) You can write exactly the same functions, commands in LCB than in LCS JC Le ven. 2 sept. 2022 à 17:13, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> a écrit : > I wonder why the polygrid is so much faster than the datagrid at rendering, > then, in the demo > > On Fri, Sep 2, 2022 at 10:54 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > Or slower than both? As I understand it, LCB has the capability to call C > > externals which themselves would be faster than anything, but on it's own > > it is slower than both. > > > > Bob S > > > > > > On Sep 2, 2022, at 01:00 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> > > wrote: > > > > On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 10:08 AM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> > > wrote: > > > > Its much faster than C but slower than Script. > > > > Should that be "much slower than C but faster than Script"? > > > > In which case, what happened to the "faster than script" part? > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Jacques Clavel From ahsoftware at sonic.net Fri Sep 2 15:58:09 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 12:58:09 -0700 Subject: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <951cdea0-756c-3d78-97f4-448ee7baa13f@fourthworld.com> <35D81BBE-2D4A-4B61-80AB-3ED4C5DF2229@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <4b8ea7d4-962c-5d78-ba14-93f05aff79cd@sonic.net> On 9/2/22 10:43, Jacques Clavel via use-livecode wrote: > You can write exactly the same functions, commands in LCB than in LCS Um, no. There are quite a few pain points trying to determine the differences in what is supported and what is different. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From brian at milby7.com Fri Sep 2 16:27:28 2022 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 16:27:28 -0400 Subject: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: <4b8ea7d4-962c-5d78-ba14-93f05aff79cd@sonic.net> References: <4b8ea7d4-962c-5d78-ba14-93f05aff79cd@sonic.net> Message-ID: Look no further than comparing the JSON library written in LCB and LCS (PhotonJSON). I’m thinking that the LCS is probably faster. Probably worth a shot to actually test in more detail. I tried to import the smartcrumbs output with the external, LCB and LCS and only the LCS even was successful (probably due to the MD5 hashes). Each has strengths and a use case. LCB can do quite a bit that you just can’t do with LCS. The efficiency of dealing with a single object widget over a grouped control is another plus. I’d imagine quite a bit of the speed of the new widgets over DG is going to be along these lines. LC Mark would be the one to speak to speed differences between LCB and LCS though. Brian Milby brian at milby7.com > On Sep 2, 2022, at 3:59 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > > On 9/2/22 10:43, Jacques Clavel via use-livecode wrote: > >> You can write exactly the same functions, commands in LCB than in LCS > > Um, no. > There are quite a few pain points trying to determine the differences in what is supported and what is different. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 2 17:16:24 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 21:16:24 +0000 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: References: <2D910BA5-56BF-4F58-BF20-F248F1A5296F@optusnet.com.au> <82919547-9C9B-4117-A9B1-BF0EC4A2F37A@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <1AF693E6-CD76-4434-AEDE-B7E3DADF4C42@iotecdigital.com> That's great for buttons. I'd like to implement something for all objects. My goal is to be able to offer the end user a way to change their "motif" with a single click. Imagine being able to set the properties of an object designated as a "class object", the object then getting a propertyChanged message, and then having that propertyChanged handler trigger the change of all the subscribed properties of all the objects that are an instance of that class or sub-class. I see it all in my mind. It wouldn't be that hard to do. I just need to know when a property gets changed in any object. Bob S On Sep 2, 2022, at 08:09 , Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode > wrote: For what it's worth, ever since my Master's thesis with LiveCode/RunRev, I have always set up buttons with fonts the way I want them on whatever platform, imported snapshots of those buttons, and used those images as buttons. No stress, No mess! From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 2 17:16:53 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 21:16:53 +0000 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: References: <2D910BA5-56BF-4F58-BF20-F248F1A5296F@optusnet.com.au> <82919547-9C9B-4117-A9B1-BF0EC4A2F37A@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <04CFA4F9-5BC5-46F3-861B-B03290AA0F24@iotecdigital.com> Oooh thanks Tom. Bob S > On Sep 2, 2022, at 09:40 , Tom Glod via use-livecode wrote: > > Bob, if you really wanna think about the user, check out resource such as > this: > > https://www.vandelaydesign.com/google-font-pairings/ > > On Fri, Sep 2, 2022 at 11:10 AM Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> For what it's worth, ever since my Master's thesis with LiveCode/RunRev, I >> have always set up buttons with fonts the way I want them on whatever >> platform, imported snapshots of those buttons, and used those images as >> buttons. >> >> No stress, No mess! >> >> On Fri, 2 Sept 2022, 18:00 Bob Sneidar via use-livecode, < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>> I read a blog some years back why it is so difficult to get nything on >>> Windows to look like it does on the Mac. It is true that Windows renders >>> fonts differently that Mac, so "exactly the same" remains the realm of >> the >>> imagined. But you can get close. My big issue was that using Arial, >> labels >>> that were right aligned and auto fitted on the Mac would overflow the >> left >>> f the label on Windows. >>> >>> Now I am using Aclonica for form headers, Acme for labels and Actor for >>> fields, buttons and grids. (Didn't have to look far did I?) I'm pretty >>> happy now with the rendering of each on both platforms. >>> >>> Bob S >>> >>> >>> On Sep 1, 2022, at 23:18 , Neville Smythe via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Standardising fonts, so that one would no longer have to check that every >>> label and field carefully crafted on the Mac to fit text precisely would >>> not have missing pixels or whole words wrapped out of sight on Windows >>> because of different font metrics, sounds like a great idea. But the >>> reality of the way systems render fonts seems to complicate things: >>> >>> I set up a test standalone with the Google fonts NotoSans-regular.ttf and >>> NotoSerif-regular.ttf installed. A label and and single line text field >>> were set up to be exactly the right size to fit some text using Arial >> font >>> on a Mac (Monterey). Then the labels and field were set to use NotoSans >> or >>> NotoSerif fonts. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 2 17:30:23 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 21:30:23 +0000 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: References: <2D910BA5-56BF-4F58-BF20-F248F1A5296F@optusnet.com.au> <82919547-9C9B-4117-A9B1-BF0EC4A2F37A@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: See, this is the exact reason why I would love to be able to employ an OOP style system. Simply changing the font, size and style of a few "Master Class" objects could change the entire project's look and feel in a matter of a second or two. As it is, it took me almost an entire day futzing around with fonts I liked, and then going to each and every object and making the changes there. Now I see immediately other font and style combinations I really like! Am I going to spend another day? Hell to the no! See just changing a font might not be enough. Often the size and lineheight have to be changed at the same time to get it to look proper. But this could go even further. Imagine having a behavior as a property that can be subclassed! You could test script changes in one object, then when ready, set the behavior of a class object and all the other objects subscribed to that class object would get the new behavior. As is, any changes to a behavior automatically affect all the objects that use it. Currently you can systematically improve the code all at once, or screw the pooch. All at once. The possibilities and benefits are many. I just. Need. That. Message. LOL! :-) Bob S > On Sep 2, 2022, at 09:40 , Tom Glod via use-livecode wrote: > > Bob, if you really wanna think about the user, check out resource such as > this: > > https://www.vandelaydesign.com/google-font-pairings/ > > On Fri, Sep 2, 2022 at 11:10 AM Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> For what it's worth, ever since my Master's thesis with LiveCode/RunRev, I >> have always set up buttons with fonts the way I want them on whatever >> platform, imported snapshots of those buttons, and used those images as >> buttons. >> >> No stress, No mess! >> >> On Fri, 2 Sept 2022, 18:00 Bob Sneidar via use-livecode, < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>> I read a blog some years back why it is so difficult to get nything on >>> Windows to look like it does on the Mac. It is true that Windows renders >>> fonts differently that Mac, so "exactly the same" remains the realm of >> the >>> imagined. But you can get close. My big issue was that using Arial, >> labels >>> that were right aligned and auto fitted on the Mac would overflow the >> left >>> f the label on Windows. >>> >>> Now I am using Aclonica for form headers, Acme for labels and Actor for >>> fields, buttons and grids. (Didn't have to look far did I?) I'm pretty >>> happy now with the rendering of each on both platforms. >>> >>> Bob S >>> >>> >>> On Sep 1, 2022, at 23:18 , Neville Smythe via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Standardising fonts, so that one would no longer have to check that every >>> label and field carefully crafted on the Mac to fit text precisely would >>> not have missing pixels or whole words wrapped out of sight on Windows >>> because of different font metrics, sounds like a great idea. But the >>> reality of the way systems render fonts seems to complicate things: >>> >>> I set up a test standalone with the Google fonts NotoSans-regular.ttf and >>> NotoSerif-regular.ttf installed. A label and and single line text field >>> were set up to be exactly the right size to fit some text using Arial >> font >>> on a Mac (Monterey). Then the labels and field were set to use NotoSans >> or >>> NotoSerif fonts. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Fri Sep 2 19:42:24 2022 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 09:42:24 +1000 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance Message-ID: Consulting the dictionary would have helped me (in this case!): measureText(text,field,bounds) should give me what I need to make precise comparisons of how the various operating (iterating?!!!) systems will render my fonts. I will report back Interesting idea, Richard, to use images for all labels. I presume you automate the export process, it would seem to be rather large task when one can have hundreds of label fields. And it wouldn’t work for fields with dynamic content. Neville From brian at milby7.com Fri Sep 2 19:54:48 2022 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 19:54:48 -0400 Subject: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55236804-6B06-47A8-8ECF-AA548BC9F892@milby7.com> Did a simple test with 819kb json file: - JSON Library / LCB 5400 ms - PhotonJSON / LCS 400 ms - mergJSON / extension 250 ms Brian Milby brian at milby7.com > On Sep 2, 2022, at 4:27 PM, Brian Milby wrote: > > Look no further than comparing the JSON library written in LCB and LCS (PhotonJSON). I’m thinking that the LCS is probably faster. Probably worth a shot to actually test in more detail. I tried to import the smartcrumbs output with the external, LCB and LCS and only the LCS even was successful (probably due to the MD5 hashes). > > Each has strengths and a use case. LCB can do quite a bit that you just can’t do with LCS. The efficiency of dealing with a single object widget over a grouped control is another plus. I’d imagine quite a bit of the speed of the new widgets over DG is going to be along these lines. LC Mark would be the one to speak to speed differences between LCB and LCS though. > > Brian Milby > brian at milby7.com > >>> On Sep 2, 2022, at 3:59 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> On 9/2/22 10:43, Jacques Clavel via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> You can write exactly the same functions, commands in LCB than in LCS >> >> Um, no. >> There are quite a few pain points trying to determine the differences in what is supported and what is different. >> >> -- >> Mark Wieder >> ahsoftware at gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ahsoftware at sonic.net Fri Sep 2 20:41:17 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 17:41:17 -0700 Subject: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: <55236804-6B06-47A8-8ECF-AA548BC9F892@milby7.com> References: <55236804-6B06-47A8-8ECF-AA548BC9F892@milby7.com> Message-ID: On 9/2/22 16:54, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote: > Did a simple test with 819kb json file: > - JSON Library / LCB 5400 ms > - PhotonJSON / LCS 400 ms > - mergJSON / extension 250 ms That's impressive. Monte's external is written in C, so that's as close to bare metal as we're gonna get. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri Sep 2 22:12:06 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 19:12:06 -0700 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <68520646-b2dd-84f9-3b04-57519f636741@fourthworld.com> Bob Sneidar wrote: > See, this is the exact reason why I would love to be able to employ > an OOP style system. Simply changing the font, size and style of a > few "Master Class" objects could change the entire project's look > and feel in a matter of a second or two. As it is, it took me almost > an entire day futzing around with fonts I liked, and then going to > each and every object and making the changes there. Now I see > immediately other font and style combinations I really like! Am I > going to spend another day? Hell to the no! See just changing a font > might not be enough. Often the size and lineheight have to be changed > at the same time to get it to look proper. How does this proposed system know which objects are bound to a style defined elsewhere and which ones aren't? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 2 22:27:43 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 02:27:43 +0000 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: <68520646-b2dd-84f9-3b04-57519f636741@fourthworld.com> References: <68520646-b2dd-84f9-3b04-57519f636741@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Like any other OOP system. By providing a way to instance an object from the class, and then modify the parameters if necessary. Not saying it wouldn’t take code. But the code would not be difficult to implement. Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 2, 2022, at 19:13, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > Bob Sneidar wrote: > > > See, this is the exact reason why I would love to be able to employ > > an OOP style system. Simply changing the font, size and style of a > > few "Master Class" objects could change the entire project's look > > and feel in a matter of a second or two. As it is, it took me almost > > an entire day futzing around with fonts I liked, and then going to > > each and every object and making the changes there. Now I see > > immediately other font and style combinations I really like! Am I > > going to spend another day? Hell to the no! See just changing a font > > might not be enough. Often the size and lineheight have to be changed > > at the same time to get it to look proper. > > How does this proposed system know which objects are bound to a style defined elsewhere and which ones aren't? > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 2 22:31:10 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 02:31:10 +0000 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: References: <68520646-b2dd-84f9-3b04-57519f636741@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <223D74D0-FB71-440B-A350-B99DD46E85B9@iotecdigital.com> Imagine right-clicking on the card, getting. Menu, field, button, grid, widget. Next level, named instance of a predefined class. Code drops the field then registers the object with the class object. Now the class object knows which objects to modify. Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 2, 2022, at 19:27, Bob Sneidar wrote: > > Like any other OOP system. By providing a way to instance an object from the class, and then modify the parameters if necessary. Not saying it wouldn’t take code. But the code would not be difficult to implement. > > Sent from my iPhone > >>> On Sep 2, 2022, at 19:13, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> Bob Sneidar wrote: >>> >>> See, this is the exact reason why I would love to be able to employ >>> an OOP style system. Simply changing the font, size and style of a >>> few "Master Class" objects could change the entire project's look >>> and feel in a matter of a second or two. As it is, it took me almost >>> an entire day futzing around with fonts I liked, and then going to >>> each and every object and making the changes there. Now I see >>> immediately other font and style combinations I really like! Am I >>> going to spend another day? Hell to the no! See just changing a font >>> might not be enough. Often the size and lineheight have to be changed >>> at the same time to get it to look proper. >> >> How does this proposed system know which objects are bound to a style defined elsewhere and which ones aren't? >> >> -- >> Richard Gaskin >> Fourth World Systems >> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web >> ____________________________________________________________________ >> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 2 22:32:01 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 02:32:01 +0000 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: <223D74D0-FB71-440B-A350-B99DD46E85B9@iotecdigital.com> References: <68520646-b2dd-84f9-3b04-57519f636741@fourthworld.com> <223D74D0-FB71-440B-A350-B99DD46E85B9@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Should read, drops the object on the card… Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 2, 2022, at 19:31, Bob Sneidar wrote: > > Imagine right-clicking on the card, getting. Menu, field, button, grid, widget. Next level, named instance of a predefined class. Code drops the field then registers the object with the class object. Now the class object knows which objects to modify. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Sep 2, 2022, at 19:27, Bob Sneidar wrote: >> >> Like any other OOP system. By providing a way to instance an object from the class, and then modify the parameters if necessary. Not saying it wouldn’t take code. But the code would not be difficult to implement. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>>>> On Sep 2, 2022, at 19:13, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Bob Sneidar wrote: >>>>> >>>>> See, this is the exact reason why I would love to be able to employ >>>>> an OOP style system. Simply changing the font, size and style of a >>>>> few "Master Class" objects could change the entire project's look >>>>> and feel in a matter of a second or two. As it is, it took me almost >>>>> an entire day futzing around with fonts I liked, and then going to >>>>> each and every object and making the changes there. Now I see >>>>> immediately other font and style combinations I really like! Am I >>>>> going to spend another day? Hell to the no! See just changing a font >>>>> might not be enough. Often the size and lineheight have to be changed >>>>> at the same time to get it to look proper. >>> >>> How does this proposed system know which objects are bound to a style defined elsewhere and which ones aren't? >>> >>> -- >>> Richard Gaskin >>> Fourth World Systems >>> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web >>> ____________________________________________________________________ >>> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ahsoftware at sonic.net Fri Sep 2 22:50:03 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 19:50:03 -0700 Subject: Excel Lib fail Message-ID: <9e4bc610-59b4-7b49-b95a-bd03e38f5503@sonic.net> /sigh Got all excited about using the Excel Library for a new spreadsheet project and then discovered it doesn't work on linux, *only* works with actual Excel, not LibreOffice. Yes, I do realize it says "Excel" and not "spreadsheet". So it's off to python to do my spreadsheet automation. Sheesh. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 2 23:12:35 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 03:12:35 +0000 Subject: Excel Lib fail In-Reply-To: <9e4bc610-59b4-7b49-b95a-bd03e38f5503@sonic.net> References: <9e4bc610-59b4-7b49-b95a-bd03e38f5503@sonic.net> Message-ID: Ya I think it uses a Microsoft API. Mac side, probably Applescript. Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 2, 2022, at 19:51, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > > /sigh > Got all excited about using the Excel Library for a new spreadsheet project and then discovered it doesn't work on linux, *only* works with actual Excel, not LibreOffice. Yes, I do realize it says "Excel" and not "spreadsheet". > > So it's off to python to do my spreadsheet automation. Sheesh. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ahsoftware at sonic.net Fri Sep 2 23:59:38 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 20:59:38 -0700 Subject: Excel Lib fail In-Reply-To: References: <9e4bc610-59b4-7b49-b95a-bd03e38f5503@sonic.net> Message-ID: <34fc7f87-a447-301b-88b0-46b35c8aa9bb@sonic.net> On 9/2/22 20:12, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > Ya I think it uses a Microsoft API. Mac side, probably Applescript. Yep. Fortunately LibreOffice is pretty easy to automate from python. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From gcanyon at gmail.com Sat Sep 3 03:37:29 2022 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 00:37:29 -0700 Subject: propertyChanged message In-Reply-To: References: <21EE8FB7-D2D3-45A6-A95F-844F542EA5BE@iotecdigital.com> <721b6787-c546-d981-0cbe-cabe4651808d@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: > what if I wanted to change the font settings again, but only for say, labels, and only certain labels and not others? There are multiple ways to do (something like) this in Navigator. 1. Navigator can display all the controls in a stack (show the card list, select all the cards, right click and browse controls). Then Navigator can filter those controls, either by simple text match against the displayed strings (which can be the name, id, long name, long id, or other options) or by test -- so you can match however you like, using the three characters "tID" to represent the object being tested. For example, word 1 of the long name of tID is "button" and the width of tID is 100 Would filter to just buttons 100 pixels wide. You can of course filter on custom properties if you want to tag the controls. Then whatever font or other property you want to set can be changed. 2. Navigator can search all the controls in a stack and its substacks (or whatever cards, stacks etc. you right click), again using whatever test you can come up with, and create bookmarks for all of the matching controls. Then selecting those bookmarks, you can change whatever property you like. I would say you can save those bookmarks for later reference, but I just tested and that appears broken. I'll have to fix it. 3. Finally, you could select whatever controls you like and then apply a command. The command can be whatever script you like. Bookmarking/filtering/selecting only the controls you want would be best, but you could also perform tests in the command -- e.g. if you were applying the command to many types of controls, but wanted to ignore fields with "label" in the name, you do something like: if word 1 of the long name of tID is "field" and the short name of tID contains "label" then next repeat -- whatever font-setting code you like here. That would be less efficient than identifying the controls yourself, but probably faster if you include your time filtering and selecting. Commands can be saved (I just checked, that works) but I don't think they can easily be modified (they're saved as text, so there's definitely *some* way to do it). It would be possible to have a command ask for the font -- you can include something like: if tIndex = 1 then ask "what font" with empty; put it into tFont end if -- font setting code here In any case let me know if you decide to use Navigator and need help. gc From bogdanoff at me.com Sat Sep 3 06:12:06 2022 From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 03:12:06 -0700 Subject: Text to speech In-Reply-To: References: <1208fc7b-7f41-131f-5767-d26ada36f378@hyperactivesw.com> <17eef8bf-c4f2-c828-a5fb-1af24dd66f8f@researchware.com> <182faee5e70.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Hi, where might the August Problem Solving session be found? Peter Bogdanoff ArtsInteractive > On Sep 2, 2022, at 1:24 AM, panagiotis m via use-livecode wrote: > > Hello all, > > Yes, we discussed this topic in August's Problem Solving session. The stack > presented supports text-to-speech in all platforms (including Linux and > Web). > > Kind regards, > Panos > -- > > On Fri, 2 Sept 2022 at 00:36, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> I think it was the July Problem solving session, but it could have been >> August's. I think July 14th's session. >> >> >> >> On 9/1/2022 5:21 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >>> Thank you. I keep missing the conferences and I need to watch them >>> later. Do you happen to recall which one it was? It sounds like >>> exactly what I'm looking for. >>> >>> -- >>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>> On September 1, 2022 3:44:56 PM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On 9/1/2022 4:33 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >>>>> What library/commands do you use for text to speech? I see that >>>>> revSpeak works on Windows and Mac, and the speech library ("speech*") >>>>> works on android, iOS, and Mac. What do you use if you want to support >>>>> all four platforms? Do you just branch to revSpeak for Windows? >>>>> >>>> >>>> I think Panos just shows how to build a common text to speech library >>>> for all platforms from these two built-in in a recent Livecode Global >>>> problem solving session. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From zryip.theslug at gmail.com Sat Sep 3 06:32:37 2022 From: zryip.theslug at gmail.com (zryip theSlug) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 12:32:37 +0200 Subject: Excel Lib fail In-Reply-To: <9e4bc610-59b4-7b49-b95a-bd03e38f5503@sonic.net> References: <9e4bc610-59b4-7b49-b95a-bd03e38f5503@sonic.net> Message-ID: Dear Mark, Did you try the XLXS Lib instead of the Excel Lib? On Sat, 3 Sept 2022 at 04:51, Mark Wieder via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > /sigh > Got all excited about using the Excel Library for a new spreadsheet > project and then discovered it doesn't work on linux, *only* works with > actual Excel, not LibreOffice. Yes, I do realize it says "Excel" and not > "spreadsheet". > > So it's off to python to do my spreadsheet automation. Sheesh. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Zryip TheSlug http://www.aslugontheroad.com From paul at researchware.com Sat Sep 3 07:53:36 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 07:53:36 -0400 Subject: Text to speech In-Reply-To: References: <1208fc7b-7f41-131f-5767-d26ada36f378@hyperactivesw.com> <17eef8bf-c4f2-c828-a5fb-1af24dd66f8f@researchware.com> <182faee5e70.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <93312178-1fe1-a0cf-3be7-22d56173a311@researchware.com> If you purchased a subscription to the LiveCode Global 22-23 conference, then you can go to livecode.com and login to the store and navigate to your account and you will see "LiveCode Global 22/23 - The Year of Reinvention" under Conferences in the sidebar. All the video's are under there - and I think a way to get the sample files as well. On 9/3/2022 6:12 AM, Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode wrote: > Hi, where might the August Problem Solving session be found? > > Peter Bogdanoff > ArtsInteractive > >> On Sep 2, 2022, at 1:24 AM, panagiotis m via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Hello all, >> >> Yes, we discussed this topic in August's Problem Solving session. The stack >> presented supports text-to-speech in all platforms (including Linux and >> Web). >> >> Kind regards, >> Panos >> -- >> >> On Fri, 2 Sept 2022 at 00:36, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>> I think it was the July Problem solving session, but it could have been >>> August's. I think July 14th's session. >>> >>> >>> >>> On 9/1/2022 5:21 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >>>> Thank you. I keep missing the conferences and I need to watch them >>>> later. Do you happen to recall which one it was? It sounds like >>>> exactly what I'm looking for. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>>> On September 1, 2022 3:44:56 PM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 9/1/2022 4:33 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >>>>>> What library/commands do you use for text to speech? I see that >>>>>> revSpeak works on Windows and Mac, and the speech library ("speech*") >>>>>> works on android, iOS, and Mac. What do you use if you want to support >>>>>> all four platforms? Do you just branch to revSpeak for Windows? >>>>>> >>>>> I think Panos just shows how to build a common text to speech library >>>>> for all platforms from these two built-in in a recent Livecode Global >>>>> problem solving session. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Sat Sep 3 07:56:24 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 07:56:24 -0400 Subject: Excel Lib fail In-Reply-To: <9e4bc610-59b4-7b49-b95a-bd03e38f5503@sonic.net> References: <9e4bc610-59b4-7b49-b95a-bd03e38f5503@sonic.net> Message-ID: <4ffafc24-1673-a1db-9f5d-d85a2d565731@researchware.com> On 9/2/2022 10:50 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > /sigh > Got all excited about using the Excel Library for a new spreadsheet > project and then discovered it doesn't work on linux, *only* works > with actual Excel, not LibreOffice. Yes, I do realize it says "Excel" > and not "spreadsheet". > > So it's off to python to do my spreadsheet automation. Sheesh. > Are you looking to remote control LibreOffice? or just write a spreadsheet from Livecode. If writing a spreadhseet, consider Curry's SpreadOut library. It works great for creating .xlsx files in Livecode script. From ahsoftware at sonic.net Sat Sep 3 11:26:46 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 08:26:46 -0700 Subject: Excel Lib fail In-Reply-To: References: <9e4bc610-59b4-7b49-b95a-bd03e38f5503@sonic.net> Message-ID: On 9/3/22 03:32, zryip theSlug via use-livecode wrote: > Dear Mark, > > Did you try the XLXS Lib instead of the Excel Lib? No, why would I have known to try that? -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ahsoftware at sonic.net Sat Sep 3 11:30:43 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 08:30:43 -0700 Subject: Excel Lib fail In-Reply-To: <4ffafc24-1673-a1db-9f5d-d85a2d565731@researchware.com> References: <9e4bc610-59b4-7b49-b95a-bd03e38f5503@sonic.net> <4ffafc24-1673-a1db-9f5d-d85a2d565731@researchware.com> Message-ID: On 9/3/22 04:56, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > Are you looking to remote control LibreOffice? or just write a > spreadsheet from Livecode. If writing a spreadhseet, consider Curry's > SpreadOut library. It works great for creating .xlsx files in Livecode > script. Thanks, but a little bit of python does the trick. And no, I need to manipulate a .csv file (format is not under my control) into a spreadsheet, change the column headers text, and move a couple of columns around. Easy to do as a one-off, but we're gonna need pretty much daily reports until the election on 8 November. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From zryip.theslug at gmail.com Sat Sep 3 13:35:11 2022 From: zryip.theslug at gmail.com (zryip theSlug) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 19:35:11 +0200 Subject: Excel Lib fail In-Reply-To: References: <9e4bc610-59b4-7b49-b95a-bd03e38f5503@sonic.net> Message-ID: Dear Mark, Due to this article, maybe? https://livecode.com/xlsx-lib-a-bonus-library-included-with-excel-library-in-the-megabundle-offer/ On Sat, 3 Sept 2022 at 17:28, Mark Wieder via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 9/3/22 03:32, zryip theSlug via use-livecode wrote: > > Dear Mark, > > > > Did you try the XLXS Lib instead of the Excel Lib? > > No, why would I have known to try that? > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Zryip TheSlug http://www.aslugontheroad.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Sep 3 16:29:01 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 15:29:01 -0500 Subject: Text to speech In-Reply-To: <93312178-1fe1-a0cf-3be7-22d56173a311@researchware.com> References: <1208fc7b-7f41-131f-5767-d26ada36f378@hyperactivesw.com> <17eef8bf-c4f2-c828-a5fb-1af24dd66f8f@researchware.com> <182faee5e70.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <93312178-1fe1-a0cf-3be7-22d56173a311@researchware.com> Message-ID: On Sep 2, 2022, at 1:24 AM, panagiotis wrote: > Yes, we discussed this topic in August's Problem Solving session. The stack > presented supports text-to-speech in all platforms (including Linux and > Web). I just watched the video and this is exactly what I was looking for. I didn't know until a couple of days ago that I would need to implement speech across all platforms, so I suspect you are either a mind reader or you got ahold of my time warp stack and knew what I was going to ask before I did. Either way, thank you for your prescience. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From marksmithhfx at gmail.com Sat Sep 3 16:37:03 2022 From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 21:37:03 +0100 Subject: Text to speech In-Reply-To: References: <1208fc7b-7f41-131f-5767-d26ada36f378@hyperactivesw.com> <17eef8bf-c4f2-c828-a5fb-1af24dd66f8f@researchware.com> <182faee5e70.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <93312178-1fe1-a0cf-3be7-22d56173a311@researchware.com> Message-ID: Hi Jacque, It’s wonderful when things just “fall into place” like that, isn’t it? I actually had no need for this at present, but I am glad you did. It’s a marvel to see solutions just “fall into your lap”. Happy coding. Mark > On 3 Sep 2022, at 9:29 pm, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > > On Sep 2, 2022, at 1:24 AM, panagiotis wrote: >> Yes, we discussed this topic in August's Problem Solving session. The stack >> presented supports text-to-speech in all platforms (including Linux and >> Web). > > I just watched the video and this is exactly what I was looking for. I didn't know until a couple of days ago that I would need to implement speech across all platforms, so I suspect you are either a mind reader or you got ahold of my time warp stack and knew what I was going to ask before I did. > > Either way, thank you for your prescience. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bogdanoff at me.com Sat Sep 3 17:09:14 2022 From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 14:09:14 -0700 Subject: Text to speech In-Reply-To: <93312178-1fe1-a0cf-3be7-22d56173a311@researchware.com> References: <1208fc7b-7f41-131f-5767-d26ada36f378@hyperactivesw.com> <17eef8bf-c4f2-c828-a5fb-1af24dd66f8f@researchware.com> <182faee5e70.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <93312178-1fe1-a0cf-3be7-22d56173a311@researchware.com> Message-ID: Thanks Paul. I missed the session. And there it is. Peter > On Sep 3, 2022, at 4:53 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > > If you purchased a subscription to the LiveCode Global 22-23 conference, then you can go to livecode.com and login to the store and navigate to your account and you will see "LiveCode Global 22/23 - The Year of Reinvention" under Conferences in the sidebar. All the video's are under there - and I think a way to get the sample files as well. > > > On 9/3/2022 6:12 AM, Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode wrote: >> Hi, where might the August Problem Solving session be found? >> >> Peter Bogdanoff >> ArtsInteractive >> >>> On Sep 2, 2022, at 1:24 AM, panagiotis m via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> Yes, we discussed this topic in August's Problem Solving session. The stack >>> presented supports text-to-speech in all platforms (including Linux and >>> Web). >>> >>> Kind regards, >>> Panos >>> -- >>> >>> On Fri, 2 Sept 2022 at 00:36, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>>> I think it was the July Problem solving session, but it could have been >>>> August's. I think July 14th's session. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 9/1/2022 5:21 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >>>>> Thank you. I keep missing the conferences and I need to watch them >>>>> later. Do you happen to recall which one it was? It sounds like >>>>> exactly what I'm looking for. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>>>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>>>> On September 1, 2022 3:44:56 PM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On 9/1/2022 4:33 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >>>>>>> What library/commands do you use for text to speech? I see that >>>>>>> revSpeak works on Windows and Mac, and the speech library ("speech*") >>>>>>> works on android, iOS, and Mac. What do you use if you want to support >>>>>>> all four platforms? Do you just branch to revSpeak for Windows? >>>>>>> >>>>>> I think Panos just shows how to build a common text to speech library >>>>>> for all platforms from these two built-in in a recent Livecode Global >>>>>> problem solving session. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Sat Sep 3 17:47:33 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 21:47:33 +0000 Subject: Text to speech In-Reply-To: References: <1208fc7b-7f41-131f-5767-d26ada36f378@hyperactivesw.com> <17eef8bf-c4f2-c828-a5fb-1af24dd66f8f@researchware.com> <182faee5e70.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <93312178-1fe1-a0cf-3be7-22d56173a311@researchware.com> Message-ID: <30A33230-7A6A-4A5A-9E94-1FB4ACC0BC3A@iotecdigital.com> I swear I didn’t give him the time warp stack 3 years from now. Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 3, 2022, at 13:30, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > > I just watched the video and this is exactly what I was looking for. I didn't know until a couple of days ago that I would need to implement speech across all platforms, so I suspect you are either a mind reader or you got ahold of my time warp stack and knew what I was going to ask before I did. > > Either way, thank you for your prescience From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Sep 3 19:31:45 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 18:31:45 -0500 Subject: Text to speech In-Reply-To: <30A33230-7A6A-4A5A-9E94-1FB4ACC0BC3A@iotecdigital.com> References: <1208fc7b-7f41-131f-5767-d26ada36f378@hyperactivesw.com> <17eef8bf-c4f2-c828-a5fb-1af24dd66f8f@researchware.com> <182faee5e70.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <93312178-1fe1-a0cf-3be7-22d56173a311@researchware.com> <30A33230-7A6A-4A5A-9E94-1FB4ACC0BC3A@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <15021695-eb58-68ae-94ec-058a7738eed2@hyperactivesw.com> Oh sure, that's what you will have said last time too. :P On 9/3/22 4:47 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > I swear I didn’t give him the time warp stack 3 years from now. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Sep 3, 2022, at 13:30, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >> >> I just watched the video and this is exactly what I was looking for. I didn't know until a couple of days ago that I would need to implement speech across all platforms, so I suspect you are either a mind reader or you got ahold of my time warp stack and knew what I was going to ask before I did. >> >> Either way, thank you for your prescience > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From ahsoftware at sonic.net Sat Sep 3 19:50:37 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 16:50:37 -0700 Subject: Text to speech In-Reply-To: <15021695-eb58-68ae-94ec-058a7738eed2@hyperactivesw.com> References: <1208fc7b-7f41-131f-5767-d26ada36f378@hyperactivesw.com> <17eef8bf-c4f2-c828-a5fb-1af24dd66f8f@researchware.com> <182faee5e70.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <93312178-1fe1-a0cf-3be7-22d56173a311@researchware.com> <30A33230-7A6A-4A5A-9E94-1FB4ACC0BC3A@iotecdigital.com> <15021695-eb58-68ae-94ec-058a7738eed2@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On 9/3/22 16:31, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > Oh sure, that's what you will have said last time too. :P Bob... you gonna have some 'splainin to do... -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ahsoftware at sonic.net Sat Sep 3 23:36:12 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 20:36:12 -0700 Subject: Excel Lib fail In-Reply-To: References: <9e4bc610-59b4-7b49-b95a-bd03e38f5503@sonic.net> Message-ID: <26f62937-4687-39a9-b49a-b4cc98a39259@sonic.net> On 9/3/22 10:35, zryip theSlug via use-livecode wrote: > Dear Mark, > > Due to this article, maybe? > > https://livecode.com/xlsx-lib-a-bonus-library-included-with-excel-library-in-the-megabundle-offer/ Yep. That's it. Thanks. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Sun Sep 4 05:34:40 2022 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2022 19:34:40 +1000 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance Message-ID: <62E382FB-FD7B-4AB5-BF62-7D163102C9B6@optusnet.com.au> So I have conducted a more careful test of the proposed method of standardising fonts across platforms, that is, installing some Google fonts in the standalone for use in labels and fields, with the objective of setting the rects of objects on the development platform and having the same appearance on all 3 platforms: no more missing pixels or wrapped words because of the differences in fonts between the platforms. Unfortunately the method does quite not give the hoped-for solution. Even though the fonts supposedly have the same metrics, the appearance still differs between platforms. For both NotoSans and NotoSerif I find the baselines differ by one or two pixels between Mac Monterey and Windows (which I don’t really understand, since the ascent is built into the font, but nevertheless becomes different when rendered). The pixel lengths of the tested strings were the same however: allowing just a couple of extra pixels height should be sufficient in these cases. However on Linux (Ubuntu), while the baselines were the same, the length of rendered strings differed markedly, in one test case wrapping a trailing word out of sight. And a nasty surprise, the text length on Mac High Sierra was 8% longer than on Monterey! So I’m afraid one must still write once, test everywhere. Neville From sean at pidigital.co.uk Sun Sep 4 07:49:28 2022 From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Pi Digital) Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2022 12:49:28 +0100 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: <62E382FB-FD7B-4AB5-BF62-7D163102C9B6@optusnet.com.au> References: <62E382FB-FD7B-4AB5-BF62-7D163102C9B6@optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <8A444F8B-4F7F-4C71-A844-56245AB3AB71@pidigital.co.uk> I had a quick turnaround job for some guys in Ghana. It made it a complete nightmare as I had done the original build in Windows, their main platform, and they wanted a backup for Mac. As this was for a TV show where the text was dynamic but had to be identical on both it made it almost impossible. I had to write multiple conditionals to allow for the two platforms display differences of baselines and formatting. Now I recommend they only build for a single platform as it is ‘unreasonable’ to expect that two different systems will perform or display in the same way. Your disturbing highlight of the differences in MacOS appearance was not nice though. Well worth knowing but not great for us, eh? Sean > On 4 Sep 2022, at 10:34, Neville Smythe via use-livecode wrote: > > So I have conducted a more careful test of the proposed method of standardising fonts across platforms, that is, installing some Google fonts in the standalone for use in labels and fields, with the objective of setting the rects of objects on the development platform and having the same appearance on all 3 platforms: no more missing pixels or wrapped words because of the differences in fonts between the platforms. > > Unfortunately the method does quite not give the hoped-for solution. Even though the fonts supposedly have the same metrics, the appearance still differs between platforms. For both NotoSans and NotoSerif I find the baselines differ by one or two pixels between Mac Monterey and Windows (which I don’t really understand, since the ascent is built into the font, but nevertheless becomes different when rendered). The pixel lengths of the tested strings were the same however: allowing just a couple of extra pixels height should be sufficient in these cases. However on Linux (Ubuntu), while the baselines were the same, the length of rendered strings differed markedly, in one test case wrapping a trailing word out of sight. And a nasty surprise, the text length on Mac High Sierra was 8% longer than on Monterey! > > So I’m afraid one must still write once, test everywhere. > > Neville > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bogdanoff at me.com Sun Sep 4 15:34:19 2022 From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff) Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2022 12:34:19 -0700 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: <8A444F8B-4F7F-4C71-A844-56245AB3AB71@pidigital.co.uk> References: <62E382FB-FD7B-4AB5-BF62-7D163102C9B6@optusnet.com.au> <8A444F8B-4F7F-4C71-A844-56245AB3AB71@pidigital.co.uk> Message-ID: <968CA950-5C07-4E45-8C3C-D1D2592EB665@me.com> My project, Music In the Air, has text on pages like a book where we need Windows line wrapping to match exactly the Mac so that text flow to the next page is identical. The solution I came up with is to process the text for Windows in advance—add CRs to each visible line of the Mac text field then export the htmlText to the data storage. When that htmlText is set in the Windows field, I also make the field much wider. Now that every visible line ends with a CR, the visible layout of words is the same as Mac. I’m doing this for both English and Chinese characters. (Displaying Chinese characters to properly fill a field of text is a whole ’nother story, but I won’t get into that here.) Peter Bogdanoff ArtsInteractive > On Sep 4, 2022, at 4:49 AM, Pi Digital via use-livecode wrote: > > I had a quick turnaround job for some guys in Ghana. It made it a complete nightmare as I had done the original build in Windows, their main platform, and they wanted a backup for Mac. As this was for a TV show where the text was dynamic but had to be identical on both it made it almost impossible. I had to write multiple conditionals to allow for the two platforms display differences of baselines and formatting. Now I recommend they only build for a single platform as it is ‘unreasonable’ to expect that two different systems will perform or display in the same way. > > Your disturbing highlight of the differences in MacOS appearance was not nice though. Well worth knowing but not great for us, eh? > > Sean > > >> On 4 Sep 2022, at 10:34, Neville Smythe via use-livecode wrote: >> >> So I have conducted a more careful test of the proposed method of standardising fonts across platforms, that is, installing some Google fonts in the standalone for use in labels and fields, with the objective of setting the rects of objects on the development platform and having the same appearance on all 3 platforms: no more missing pixels or wrapped words because of the differences in fonts between the platforms. >> >> Unfortunately the method does quite not give the hoped-for solution. Even though the fonts supposedly have the same metrics, the appearance still differs between platforms. For both NotoSans and NotoSerif I find the baselines differ by one or two pixels between Mac Monterey and Windows (which I don’t really understand, since the ascent is built into the font, but nevertheless becomes different when rendered). The pixel lengths of the tested strings were the same however: allowing just a couple of extra pixels height should be sufficient in these cases. However on Linux (Ubuntu), while the baselines were the same, the length of rendered strings differed markedly, in one test case wrapping a trailing word out of sight. And a nasty surprise, the text length on Mac High Sierra was 8% longer than on Monterey! >> >> So I’m afraid one must still write once, test everywhere. >> >> Neville >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From sean at pidigital.co.uk Sun Sep 4 15:57:50 2022 From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Pi Digital) Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2022 20:57:50 +0100 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: <968CA950-5C07-4E45-8C3C-D1D2592EB665@me.com> References: <968CA950-5C07-4E45-8C3C-D1D2592EB665@me.com> Message-ID: You could try an svg text widget. Just a unsubstantiated thought. Sean Cole Pi Digital > On 4 Sep 2022, at 20:35, Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode wrote: > > My project, Music In the Air, has text on pages like a book where we need Windows line wrapping to match exactly the Mac so that text flow to the next page is identical. > > The solution I came up with is to process the text for Windows in advance—add CRs to each visible line of the Mac text field then export the htmlText to the data storage. When that htmlText is set in the Windows field, I also make the field much wider. Now that every visible line ends with a CR, the visible layout of words is the same as Mac. > > I’m doing this for both English and Chinese characters. (Displaying Chinese characters to properly fill a field of text is a whole ’nother story, but I won’t get into that here.) > > Peter Bogdanoff > ArtsInteractive > >> On Sep 4, 2022, at 4:49 AM, Pi Digital via use-livecode wrote: >> >> I had a quick turnaround job for some guys in Ghana. It made it a complete nightmare as I had done the original build in Windows, their main platform, and they wanted a backup for Mac. As this was for a TV show where the text was dynamic but had to be identical on both it made it almost impossible. I had to write multiple conditionals to allow for the two platforms display differences of baselines and formatting. Now I recommend they only build for a single platform as it is ‘unreasonable’ to expect that two different systems will perform or display in the same way. >> >> Your disturbing highlight of the differences in MacOS appearance was not nice though. Well worth knowing but not great for us, eh? >> >> Sean >> >> >>>> On 4 Sep 2022, at 10:34, Neville Smythe via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> So I have conducted a more careful test of the proposed method of standardising fonts across platforms, that is, installing some Google fonts in the standalone for use in labels and fields, with the objective of setting the rects of objects on the development platform and having the same appearance on all 3 platforms: no more missing pixels or wrapped words because of the differences in fonts between the platforms. >>> >>> Unfortunately the method does quite not give the hoped-for solution. Even though the fonts supposedly have the same metrics, the appearance still differs between platforms. For both NotoSans and NotoSerif I find the baselines differ by one or two pixels between Mac Monterey and Windows (which I don’t really understand, since the ascent is built into the font, but nevertheless becomes different when rendered). The pixel lengths of the tested strings were the same however: allowing just a couple of extra pixels height should be sufficient in these cases. However on Linux (Ubuntu), while the baselines were the same, the length of rendered strings differed markedly, in one test case wrapping a trailing word out of sight. And a nasty surprise, the text length on Mac High Sierra was 8% longer than on Monterey! >>> >>> So I’m afraid one must still write once, test everywhere. >>> >>> Neville >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Sun Sep 4 21:11:56 2022 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2022 11:11:56 +1000 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance Message-ID: Actually it is possible to ensure the baselines of fields are consistent across platforms without having to use conditionals. From experimentation it appears that the baseline is given (relative to the top of the field) by the top margin - 3*fontAscent/4 -1 where the fontAscent is item 2 of measureText(text,fld,”bounds”) (note this is a negative number; in macOS it is the traditional font ascent, in Windows I think it is the traditional font top ) Since the bottom margin is ignored in this placement, we can force the baseline to be at the bottom margin as follows: put the margins of fld “foo" into tMargins put item 4 of tMargins into tBottomMargin put measuretext(fld “foo",fld “foo",bounds) into tFontInfo put 1 + the height of fld “foo” - tBottomMargin + round(3*(item 2 of tFontInfo)/4) into tTopMargin put tTopMargin into item 2 of tMargins set the margins of fld “foo" to tMargins The pixel length of text however cannot be made consistent across platforms, and one can only allow some extra padding to make sure the text appears unmangled. My very limited experiments with just the fonts NotoSans and NotoSerif at textSize 13 and the text “A standard label:” indicate that Mac Monterey and Windows 10 : text widths are the same Mac High Sierra : about 8% longer Linux Ubuntu: about 15% longer (!!) Other fonts differ more widely between platforms and system versions (perhaps most weirdly 13pt Times on the Mac looks like 9pt) Neville Smythe From cubist at aol.com Mon Sep 5 03:01:56 2022 From: cubist at aol.com (Quentin Long) Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2022 07:01:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Cross-platform font handling, and why you don't want to do it References: <367339530.2317548.1662361316808.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <367339530.2317548.1662361316808@mail.yahoo.com> Cross-platform font compatibility is a hellacious rat's nest of mismatches. It may or may not be worse than handling time (Daylight Savings Time? leap years? leap *seconds*? etc, ad nauseum), but it's plenty bad enough on its own merits, or lack thereof. * You can't be 100% confident that your user will have the same font(s) you do installed on their system. * If your user has a font *of the same name* as your font installed on their system, you can't be 100% confident that *their* font came from the same font foundry as *your* font. Yes, font names are legally protected, but... Helvetica, anyone? * If your user has a font *of the same name* as your font installed on their system, you can't be 100% confident that it's the *same* font you have. Again: Font names are legally protected. But what if you have version 15.0 of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont on your system, but your user only has version 1.0 of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont? Who *knows* what tweaks RandomFontFoundry may have made to WhateverFont in between those two version numbers? * Can you be 100% confident that version 15.0 of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont *for Mac* is going to render *exactly the same* as version 15.0 of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont *for Windows* or *for Linux*? No. You cannot. Different type rendering engines on different OSes *ensure* that rendering compatibility will be problematic at best. * Assuming your user has exactly the same version of exactly the same font on exactly the same OS you do, you can't be 100% confident that your user has installed the font metrics data (kerning, sidebearings, etc)—which means you have no idea if the damn thing will look the same on your user's system as on your system. If you want to *ensure* that some piece of text looks *exactly the same* cross-platform, the only way to get there is to format the text the way you want it on one platform, take a screenshot, and use that graphic. But even then, can you be 100% confident that your user *hasn't* tweaked some setting on their system which messes with graphics..? The "take a screenshot" solution is not well-suited for any use-case involving text which varies from time to time, and largely impractical for any use-case involving text which is input by the user. In principle, it should be possible to create a library of glyph-images of all glyphs in a font, and import those glyph-images as necessary—no, mass quantities of "set the imageSource of char X to $GlyphImage" commands ain't gonna fly, cuz letterspacing will look crappy—but that "solution" is tantamount to building your own, redundant, set of text-handling routines. Yuck! If "take a screenshot" doesn't work for you, I suspect the next-best route to achieving Absolute Cross-Platform Font Fidelity may be this: 1) Open up your font in your font-editing utility of choice (Fontographer, Glyphs, FontLab, whatever) 2) Export your font N times, once for each of the *other* OSes you need font compatibility with—WhateverFontMac, WhateverFontWindows, WhateverFontLinux, etc 3) Open up your stack within each of the OSes you're working with, always using the appropriate OS-specific version of your font, and see how different your stack looks on the other OSes 4) Tweak the font metrics on the other-OS versions of your font until your stack looks the same on all OSes 5) When it's time to distribute your stack, be sure to bundle *all* the hand-tuned OS-versions of your font with your stack This procedure is, of course, a royal pain in the arse. Hellacious rat's nest of mismatches, yada yada yada. But regardless of how painful it is? If you need absolute visual fidelity cross-platform, *and* total flexibility in the *content* of text, this procedure may be your least-bad option. As a perhaps-preferable option: 1) Open up your stack on each of the OSes you're striving for font compatibility on 2) Tweak the appearance-relevant text properties (textFont, textHeight, textShift, etc) on each OS until you get an acceptable approximation of identical appearance 3) Make note of the values of all these text properties for each OS 4) Assuming you have however-many fonts specified by fontName, be sure you bundle all those fonts with your stack when you distribute it 5) Include in your stack's preOpenStack handler a switch which includes "case = WhateverOS" for each OS you want font compatibility for 6) Within each OS's "case", set all the appearance-relevant text properties for that OS This procedure is not going to achieve anywhere near the degree of cross-platform font fidelity as the "roll your own" solution above. On the plus side, it's *significantly* less nitpicky/picayune/painful. You puts in your money, and you takes your chances... "Bewitched" + "Charlie's Angels" - Charlie = "At Arm's Length" Read the webcomic at [ http://www.atarmslength.net ]! If you like "At Arm's Length", support it at [ http://www.patreon.com/DarkwingDude ]. From tom at makeshyft.com Mon Sep 5 12:06:07 2022 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2022 12:06:07 -0400 Subject: Cross-platform font handling, and why you don't want to do it In-Reply-To: <367339530.2317548.1662361316808@mail.yahoo.com> References: <367339530.2317548.1662361316808.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <367339530.2317548.1662361316808@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: It seems like you have an approach that can work well, despite being more work. Mainly shipping the fonts, which cancels out most of the issues, but requires handling each case. I don't know if any multi-platform dev tool deals with fonts without any extra hoops. If I recall correctly, flutter did OK, but not perfectly on the 2 mobile platforms, but I've not tested the desktops, which I am guessing will be worse. Hopefully your wrap up can help people to avoid trying to stick ..... the thing in the thing. Good luck to us all. On Mon, Sep 5, 2022 at 3:03 AM Quentin Long via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Cross-platform font compatibility is a hellacious rat's nest of > mismatches. It may or may not be worse than handling time (Daylight Savings > Time? leap years? leap *seconds*? etc, ad nauseum), but it's plenty bad > enough on its own merits, or lack thereof. > * You can't be 100% confident that your user will have the same font(s) > you do installed on their system. > * If your user has a font *of the same name* as your font installed on > their system, you can't be 100% confident that *their* font came from the > same font foundry as *your* font. Yes, font names are legally protected, > but... Helvetica, anyone? > * If your user has a font *of the same name* as your font installed on > their system, you can't be 100% confident that it's the *same* font you > have. Again: Font names are legally protected. But what if you > have version 15.0 of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont on your system, but > your user only has version 1.0 of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont? Who > *knows* what tweaks RandomFontFoundry may have made to WhateverFont in > between those two version numbers? > * Can you be 100% confident that version 15.0 > of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont *for Mac* is going to render *exactly > the same* as version 15.0 of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont *for Windows* > or *for Linux*? No. You cannot. Different type rendering engines on > different OSes *ensure* that rendering compatibility will be problematic at > best. > * Assuming your user has exactly the same version of exactly the same font > on exactly the same OS you do, you can't be 100% confident that your user > has installed the font metrics data (kerning, sidebearings, etc)—which > means you have no idea if the damn thing will look the same on your user's > system as on your system. > If you want to *ensure* that some piece of text looks *exactly the same* > cross-platform, the only way to get there is to format the text the way you > want it on one platform, take a screenshot, and use that graphic. But even > then, can you be 100% confident that your user *hasn't* tweaked some > setting on their system which messes with graphics..? > > The "take a screenshot" solution is not well-suited for any use-case > involving text which varies from time to time, and largely impractical for > any use-case involving text which is input by the user. In principle, it > should be possible to create a library of glyph-images of all glyphs in a > font, and import those glyph-images as necessary—no, mass quantities of > "set the imageSource of char X to $GlyphImage" commands ain't gonna fly, > cuz letterspacing will look crappy—but that "solution" is tantamount to > building your own, redundant, set of text-handling routines. Yuck! > If "take a screenshot" doesn't work for you, I suspect the next-best route > to achieving Absolute Cross-Platform Font Fidelity may be this: > 1) Open up your font in your font-editing utility of choice > (Fontographer, Glyphs, FontLab, whatever) > 2) Export your font N times, once for each of the *other* OSes you need > font compatibility with—WhateverFontMac, WhateverFontWindows, > WhateverFontLinux, etc > 3) Open up your stack within each of the OSes you're working with, always > using the appropriate OS-specific version of your font, and see how > different your stack looks on the other OSes > 4) Tweak the font metrics on the other-OS versions of your font until your > stack looks the same on all OSes > 5) When it's time to distribute your stack, be sure to bundle *all* the > hand-tuned OS-versions of your font with your stack > This procedure is, of course, a royal pain in the arse. Hellacious rat's > nest of mismatches, yada yada yada. But regardless of how painful it is? If > you need absolute visual fidelity cross-platform, *and* total flexibility > in the *content* of text, this procedure may be your least-bad option. > As a perhaps-preferable option: > 1) Open up your stack on each of the OSes you're striving for font > compatibility on > 2) Tweak the appearance-relevant text properties (textFont, textHeight, > textShift, etc) on each OS until you get an acceptable approximation of > identical appearance > 3) Make note of the values of all these text properties for each OS > 4) Assuming you have however-many fonts specified by fontName, be sure you > bundle all those fonts with your stack when you distribute it > 5) Include in your stack's preOpenStack handler a switch which > includes "case = WhateverOS" for each OS you want font compatibility for > 6) Within each OS's "case", set all the appearance-relevant text > properties for that OS > This procedure is not going to achieve anywhere near the degree of > cross-platform font fidelity as the "roll your own" solution above. On the > plus side, it's *significantly* less nitpicky/picayune/painful. You puts in > your money, and you takes your chances... > > "Bewitched" + "Charlie's Angels" - Charlie = "At Arm's Length" Read the > webcomic at [ http://www.atarmslength.net ]! If you like "At Arm's > Length", support it at [ http://www.patreon.com/DarkwingDude ]. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Mon Sep 5 16:54:31 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2022 16:54:31 -0400 Subject: Cross-platform font handling, and why you don't want to do it In-Reply-To: References: <367339530.2317548.1662361316808.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <367339530.2317548.1662361316808@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Other tools that we use have implemented CSS to manage this, but that does not make it easier. fonts have been a menace since we first had x-platform dev tools and meaningful WYSIWYG rendering (Win 95?). at the time, dpi differences made the issue impossible to resolve for smaller fonts, especially. the mechanisms for handling those issues have changed, but it has not gotten better. On Mon, Sep 5, 2022 at 12:07 PM Tom Glod via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > It seems like you have an approach that can work well, despite being more > work. > Mainly shipping the fonts, which cancels out most of the issues, but > requires handling each case. > > I don't know if any multi-platform dev tool deals with fonts without any > extra hoops. > If I recall correctly, flutter did OK, but not perfectly on the 2 mobile > platforms, but I've not tested the desktops, which I am guessing will be > worse. > > Hopefully your wrap up can help people to avoid trying to stick ..... the > thing in the thing. > Good luck to us all. > > > On Mon, Sep 5, 2022 at 3:03 AM Quentin Long via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > Cross-platform font compatibility is a hellacious rat's nest of > > mismatches. It may or may not be worse than handling time (Daylight > Savings > > Time? leap years? leap *seconds*? etc, ad nauseum), but it's plenty bad > > enough on its own merits, or lack thereof. > > * You can't be 100% confident that your user will have the same font(s) > > you do installed on their system. > > * If your user has a font *of the same name* as your font installed on > > their system, you can't be 100% confident that *their* font came from the > > same font foundry as *your* font. Yes, font names are legally protected, > > but... Helvetica, anyone? > > * If your user has a font *of the same name* as your font installed on > > their system, you can't be 100% confident that it's the *same* font you > > have. Again: Font names are legally protected. But what if you > > have version 15.0 of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont on your system, but > > your user only has version 1.0 of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont? Who > > *knows* what tweaks RandomFontFoundry may have made to WhateverFont in > > between those two version numbers? > > * Can you be 100% confident that version 15.0 > > of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont *for Mac* is going to render *exactly > > the same* as version 15.0 of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont *for > Windows* > > or *for Linux*? No. You cannot. Different type rendering engines on > > different OSes *ensure* that rendering compatibility will be problematic > at > > best. > > * Assuming your user has exactly the same version of exactly the same > font > > on exactly the same OS you do, you can't be 100% confident that your user > > has installed the font metrics data (kerning, sidebearings, etc)—which > > means you have no idea if the damn thing will look the same on your > user's > > system as on your system. > > If you want to *ensure* that some piece of text looks *exactly the same* > > cross-platform, the only way to get there is to format the text the way > you > > want it on one platform, take a screenshot, and use that graphic. But > even > > then, can you be 100% confident that your user *hasn't* tweaked some > > setting on their system which messes with graphics..? > > > > The "take a screenshot" solution is not well-suited for any use-case > > involving text which varies from time to time, and largely impractical > for > > any use-case involving text which is input by the user. In principle, it > > should be possible to create a library of glyph-images of all glyphs in a > > font, and import those glyph-images as necessary—no, mass quantities of > > "set the imageSource of char X to $GlyphImage" commands ain't gonna fly, > > cuz letterspacing will look crappy—but that "solution" is tantamount to > > building your own, redundant, set of text-handling routines. Yuck! > > If "take a screenshot" doesn't work for you, I suspect the next-best > route > > to achieving Absolute Cross-Platform Font Fidelity may be this: > > 1) Open up your font in your font-editing utility of choice > > (Fontographer, Glyphs, FontLab, whatever) > > 2) Export your font N times, once for each of the *other* OSes you need > > font compatibility with—WhateverFontMac, WhateverFontWindows, > > WhateverFontLinux, etc > > 3) Open up your stack within each of the OSes you're working with, always > > using the appropriate OS-specific version of your font, and see how > > different your stack looks on the other OSes > > 4) Tweak the font metrics on the other-OS versions of your font until > your > > stack looks the same on all OSes > > 5) When it's time to distribute your stack, be sure to bundle *all* the > > hand-tuned OS-versions of your font with your stack > > This procedure is, of course, a royal pain in the arse. Hellacious rat's > > nest of mismatches, yada yada yada. But regardless of how painful it is? > If > > you need absolute visual fidelity cross-platform, *and* total flexibility > > in the *content* of text, this procedure may be your least-bad option. > > As a perhaps-preferable option: > > 1) Open up your stack on each of the OSes you're striving for font > > compatibility on > > 2) Tweak the appearance-relevant text properties (textFont, textHeight, > > textShift, etc) on each OS until you get an acceptable approximation of > > identical appearance > > 3) Make note of the values of all these text properties for each OS > > 4) Assuming you have however-many fonts specified by fontName, be sure > you > > bundle all those fonts with your stack when you distribute it > > 5) Include in your stack's preOpenStack handler a switch which > > includes "case = WhateverOS" for each OS you want font compatibility for > > 6) Within each OS's "case", set all the appearance-relevant text > > properties for that OS > > This procedure is not going to achieve anywhere near the degree of > > cross-platform font fidelity as the "roll your own" solution above. On > the > > plus side, it's *significantly* less nitpicky/picayune/painful. You puts > in > > your money, and you takes your chances... > > > > "Bewitched" + "Charlie's Angels" - Charlie = "At Arm's Length" Read the > > webcomic at [ http://www.atarmslength.net ]! If you like "At Arm's > > Length", support it at [ http://www.patreon.com/DarkwingDude ]. > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Mon Sep 5 19:22:22 2022 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2022 19:22:22 -0400 Subject: Cross-platform font handling, and why you don't want to do it In-Reply-To: <367339530.2317548.1662361316808@mail.yahoo.com> References: <367339530.2317548.1662361316808.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <367339530.2317548.1662361316808@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002b01d8c17e$5cd850b0$1688f210$@net> Solutions before I tell my tales of woe. Measuretext is a great high speed tool using a field's properties to calculate the width in pixels that the string will occupy when rendered. This can solve many kerning issues. The font size can be adjusted as needed to fit the text into a field without clipping. Measuretext is much faster than doing the measuring directly on the field(formattedWidth) if it has many lines. Baseline and vertical position/size issues are different problems. Mac and Windows use their own font metrics tables for ascent and decent. Android uses Windows table. I don't know but I would assume that iOS uses the Mac(HHead) version. Don't know what Linux uses. Doing height calculations and adjusting the top/bottom field margins gets you there. OR If you have an open source font and font editor, one can diddle the ascent/decent values for Windows and HHead(Mac). This can get you 99%+ identical rendering on Win/Mac. A lot of work for sure. Browsers are another challenge I've seen the need for media calls for specific browsers in the css to make sure text will fit as intended. If you just check Chrome you get 65% of the market. Add Safari you get to 83%. Edge and FireFox get you to 90%. So to get to 90% you need to test 4 browsers, some on at least 5 platforms. I've had headaches and sketchy workarounds for font issues since I got into composition in 1994 with win 3.1, ATM and TT/Type 1 fonts. I had the version problem with I believe Helvetica. Customer used the Adobe v1 version we had the latest vX version. We used their version of the font day one but then bought the entire Adobe font library. Our new users went to the library and suddenly one composer's text for this product flowed differently. WHAT??? After looking at everything else we discovered the version number was different(it was the file date that finally clued us in). The 2 versions(both from Adobe) did indeed kern slightly different. We used InDesign and Word. One displayed the font family name and the other displayed the true font name on their respective font choosers. One would be "Bodini Heavy" the other was "Bodini 55". Confusing for sure. Word will silently substitute a font for a close match on your system if you don’t have the exact font called for. If that person saves the file then when opened on a system with the proper font... the proper font is displayed on the screen but when creating a PDF the wrong font is used. The difference between screen and printed rendering might have been only on type 1 fonts? Don’t remember. The composer and I both try to forget that 10 hours we will never get back trying to figure that one out. Roman Fonts with identical names is a constant issue. Have a TT font and a font with the same name in another format(Type 1/OpenType) on your system(even if they are from the same foundry) and see how that works out. Not good... Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Quentin Long via use-livecode Sent: Monday, September 05, 2022 3:02 AM To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Cc: Quentin Long Subject: Cross-platform font handling, and why you don't want to do it Cross-platform font compatibility is a hellacious rat's nest of mismatches. It may or may not be worse than handling time (Daylight Savings Time? leap years? leap *seconds*? etc, ad nauseum), but it's plenty bad enough on its own merits, or lack thereof. * You can't be 100% confident that your user will have the same font(s) you do installed on their system. * If your user has a font *of the same name* as your font installed on their system, you can't be 100% confident that *their* font came from the same font foundry as *your* font. Yes, font names are legally protected, but... Helvetica, anyone? * If your user has a font *of the same name* as your font installed on their system, you can't be 100% confident that it's the *same* font you have. Again: Font names are legally protected. But what if you have version 15.0 of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont on your system, but your user only has version 1.0 of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont? Who *knows* what tweaks RandomFontFoundry may have made to WhateverFont in between those two version numbers? * Can you be 100% confident that version 15.0 of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont *for Mac* is going to render *exactly the same* as version 15.0 of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont *for Windows* or *for Linux*? No. You cannot. Different type rendering engines on different OSes *ensure* that rendering compatibility will be problematic at best. * Assuming your user has exactly the same version of exactly the same font on exactly the same OS you do, you can't be 100% confident that your user has installed the font metrics data (kerning, sidebearings, etc)—which means you have no idea if the damn thing will look the same on your user's system as on your system. If you want to *ensure* that some piece of text looks *exactly the same* cross-platform, the only way to get there is to format the text the way you want it on one platform, take a screenshot, and use that graphic. But even then, can you be 100% confident that your user *hasn't* tweaked some setting on their system which messes with graphics..? The "take a screenshot" solution is not well-suited for any use-case involving text which varies from time to time, and largely impractical for any use-case involving text which is input by the user. In principle, it should be possible to create a library of glyph-images of all glyphs in a font, and import those glyph-images as necessary—no, mass quantities of "set the imageSource of char X to $GlyphImage" commands ain't gonna fly, cuz letterspacing will look crappy—but that "solution" is tantamount to building your own, redundant, set of text-handling routines. Yuck! If "take a screenshot" doesn't work for you, I suspect the next-best route to achieving Absolute Cross-Platform Font Fidelity may be this: 1) Open up your font in your font-editing utility of choice (Fontographer, Glyphs, FontLab, whatever) 2) Export your font N times, once for each of the *other* OSes you need font compatibility with—WhateverFontMac, WhateverFontWindows, WhateverFontLinux, etc 3) Open up your stack within each of the OSes you're working with, always using the appropriate OS-specific version of your font, and see how different your stack looks on the other OSes 4) Tweak the font metrics on the other-OS versions of your font until your stack looks the same on all OSes 5) When it's time to distribute your stack, be sure to bundle *all* the hand-tuned OS-versions of your font with your stack This procedure is, of course, a royal pain in the arse. Hellacious rat's nest of mismatches, yada yada yada. But regardless of how painful it is? If you need absolute visual fidelity cross-platform, *and* total flexibility in the *content* of text, this procedure may be your least-bad option. As a perhaps-preferable option: 1) Open up your stack on each of the OSes you're striving for font compatibility on 2) Tweak the appearance-relevant text properties (textFont, textHeight, textShift, etc) on each OS until you get an acceptable approximation of identical appearance 3) Make note of the values of all these text properties for each OS 4) Assuming you have however-many fonts specified by fontName, be sure you bundle all those fonts with your stack when you distribute it 5) Include in your stack's preOpenStack handler a switch which includes "case = WhateverOS" for each OS you want font compatibility for 6) Within each OS's "case", set all the appearance-relevant text properties for that OS This procedure is not going to achieve anywhere near the degree of cross-platform font fidelity as the "roll your own" solution above. On the plus side, it's *significantly* less nitpicky/picayune/painful. You puts in your money, and you takes your chances... "Bewitched" + "Charlie's Angels" - Charlie = "At Arm's Length" Read the webcomic at [ http://www.atarmslength.net ]! If you like "At Arm's Length", support it at [ http://www.patreon.com/DarkwingDude ]. _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon Sep 5 20:02:31 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 00:02:31 +0000 Subject: Cross-platform font handling, and why you don't want to do it In-Reply-To: <002b01d8c17e$5cd850b0$1688f210$@net> References: <367339530.2317548.1662361316808.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <367339530.2317548.1662361316808@mail.yahoo.com> <002b01d8c17e$5cd850b0$1688f210$@net> Message-ID: <018C39CA-3EC2-493B-9AF5-B001771684A8@iotecdigital.com> Well, I am not aiming for *exact* visual match. What I WOULD expect is that if Livecode thinks the name of a font on the MacOS is “Aclonica Regular” then it would think the same thing on a Windows system. I’m talking about an embedded font file here. That “Aclonica” without the “regular” works on both platforms raises an eyebrow. Is LC for MacOS getting it wrong, or is Windows? Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 5, 2022, at 16:23, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote: > > Solutions before I tell my tales of woe. > > Measuretext is a great high speed tool using a field's properties to calculate the width in pixels that the string will occupy when rendered. This can solve many kerning issues. The font size can be adjusted as needed to fit the text into a field without clipping. > Measuretext is much faster than doing the measuring directly on the field(formattedWidth) if it has many lines. > > Baseline and vertical position/size issues are different problems. Mac and Windows use their own font metrics tables for ascent and decent. Android uses Windows table. I don't know but I would assume that iOS uses the Mac(HHead) version. Don't know what Linux uses. > Doing height calculations and adjusting the top/bottom field margins gets you there. > OR > If you have an open source font and font editor, one can diddle the ascent/decent values for Windows and HHead(Mac). This can get you 99%+ identical rendering on Win/Mac. A lot of work for sure. > > Browsers are another challenge I've seen the need for media calls for specific browsers in the css to make sure text will fit as intended. If you just check Chrome you get 65% of the market. Add Safari you get to 83%. Edge and FireFox get you to 90%. So to get to 90% you need to test 4 browsers, some on at least 5 platforms. > > > > I've had headaches and sketchy workarounds for font issues since I got into composition in 1994 with win 3.1, ATM and TT/Type 1 fonts. > > I had the version problem with I believe Helvetica. Customer used the Adobe v1 version we had the latest vX version. We used their version of the font day one but then bought the entire Adobe font library. Our new users went to the library and suddenly one composer's text for this product flowed differently. WHAT??? After looking at everything else we discovered the version number was different(it was the file date that finally clued us in). The 2 versions(both from Adobe) did indeed kern slightly different. > > We used InDesign and Word. One displayed the font family name and the other displayed the true font name on their respective font choosers. One would be "Bodini Heavy" the other was "Bodini 55". Confusing for sure. > > Word will silently substitute a font for a close match on your system if you don’t have the exact font called for. If that person saves the file then when opened on a system with the proper font... the proper font is displayed on the screen but when creating a PDF the wrong font is used. The difference between screen and printed rendering might have been only on type 1 fonts? Don’t remember. The composer and I both try to forget that 10 hours we will never get back trying to figure that one out. > > Roman Fonts with identical names is a constant issue. > > Have a TT font and a font with the same name in another format(Type 1/OpenType) on your system(even if they are from the same foundry) and see how that works out. Not good... > > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Quentin Long via use-livecode > Sent: Monday, September 05, 2022 3:02 AM > To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Cc: Quentin Long > Subject: Cross-platform font handling, and why you don't want to do it > > Cross-platform font compatibility is a hellacious rat's nest of mismatches. It may or may not be worse than handling time (Daylight Savings Time? leap years? leap *seconds*? etc, ad nauseum), but it's plenty bad enough on its own merits, or lack thereof. > * You can't be 100% confident that your user will have the same font(s) you do installed on their system. > * If your user has a font *of the same name* as your font installed on their system, you can't be 100% confident that *their* font came from the same font foundry as *your* font. Yes, font names are legally protected, but... Helvetica, anyone? > * If your user has a font *of the same name* as your font installed on their system, you can't be 100% confident that it's the *same* font you have. Again: Font names are legally protected. But what if you have version 15.0 of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont on your system, but your user only has version 1.0 of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont? Who *knows* what tweaks RandomFontFoundry may have made to WhateverFont in between those two version numbers? > * Can you be 100% confident that version 15.0 of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont *for Mac* is going to render *exactly the same* as version 15.0 of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont *for Windows* or *for Linux*? No. You cannot. Different type rendering engines on different OSes *ensure* that rendering compatibility will be problematic at best. > * Assuming your user has exactly the same version of exactly the same font on exactly the same OS you do, you can't be 100% confident that your user has installed the font metrics data (kerning, sidebearings, etc)—which means you have no idea if the damn thing will look the same on your user's system as on your system. > If you want to *ensure* that some piece of text looks *exactly the same* cross-platform, the only way to get there is to format the text the way you want it on one platform, take a screenshot, and use that graphic. But even then, can you be 100% confident that your user *hasn't* tweaked some setting on their system which messes with graphics..? > > The "take a screenshot" solution is not well-suited for any use-case involving text which varies from time to time, and largely impractical for any use-case involving text which is input by the user. In principle, it should be possible to create a library of glyph-images of all glyphs in a font, and import those glyph-images as necessary—no, mass quantities of "set the imageSource of char X to $GlyphImage" commands ain't gonna fly, cuz letterspacing will look crappy—but that "solution" is tantamount to building your own, redundant, set of text-handling routines. Yuck! > If "take a screenshot" doesn't work for you, I suspect the next-best route to achieving Absolute Cross-Platform Font Fidelity may be this: > 1) Open up your font in your font-editing utility of choice (Fontographer, Glyphs, FontLab, whatever) > 2) Export your font N times, once for each of the *other* OSes you need font compatibility with—WhateverFontMac, WhateverFontWindows, WhateverFontLinux, etc > 3) Open up your stack within each of the OSes you're working with, always using the appropriate OS-specific version of your font, and see how different your stack looks on the other OSes > 4) Tweak the font metrics on the other-OS versions of your font until your stack looks the same on all OSes > 5) When it's time to distribute your stack, be sure to bundle *all* the hand-tuned OS-versions of your font with your stack This procedure is, of course, a royal pain in the arse. Hellacious rat's nest of mismatches, yada yada yada. But regardless of how painful it is? If you need absolute visual fidelity cross-platform, *and* total flexibility in the *content* of text, this procedure may be your least-bad option. > As a perhaps-preferable option: > 1) Open up your stack on each of the OSes you're striving for font compatibility on > 2) Tweak the appearance-relevant text properties (textFont, textHeight, textShift, etc) on each OS until you get an acceptable approximation of identical appearance > 3) Make note of the values of all these text properties for each OS > 4) Assuming you have however-many fonts specified by fontName, be sure you bundle all those fonts with your stack when you distribute it > 5) Include in your stack's preOpenStack handler a switch which includes "case = WhateverOS" for each OS you want font compatibility for > 6) Within each OS's "case", set all the appearance-relevant text properties for that OS This procedure is not going to achieve anywhere near the degree of cross-platform font fidelity as the "roll your own" solution above. On the plus side, it's *significantly* less nitpicky/picayune/painful. You puts in your money, and you takes your chances... > > "Bewitched" + "Charlie's Angels" - Charlie = "At Arm's Length" Read the webcomic at [ http://www.atarmslength.net ]! If you like "At Arm's Length", support it at [ http://www.patreon.com/DarkwingDude ]. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Mon Sep 5 21:27:48 2022 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 11:27:48 +1000 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance Message-ID: <32484F73-F203-4BA0-A748-944EF6BF8E42@optusnet.com.au> I agree Quentin, trying to make text appear exactly the same on all platforms is a fools errand. That however is not the main point of the exercise, at least for me. When designing an apps interface, it would be good to know that (at least static) text items will (probably) appear in the same font style and height and the text is all visible: no pixels obscured at top or bottom or left or right, no unintended word-wrapping, and not too close to other objects such as a field border. Including one’s own fonts such as Google fonts, which are probably not in the user’s default system setup — on a desktop at least, and setting the baseline as in a previous post, would seem to be a useful addition to the production process (and may even achieve precise equality between Monterey and Windows 10 if my early experiments hold true! ). But the most important parameter is of course the text length. The usual mantra is to add about 10% extra padding to the field length. I intend to set up a database for a range of fonts and platforms to check just what extra length is really needed (is that figure of 15% for Linux I quoted actually correct, it sounds unbelievable). I have access to Mac Monterey, Mac High Sierra, and Windows 10 and Ubuntu via Parallels. Once done I will publish the database. Hopefully someone could then add data for Window 11 for example ( and iOS and Android) Finally a couple of other comments about fonts on Monterey. I mentioned Times on the Mac being weirdly small. Turns out Times is no longer included in Monterey although it will recognise a scripted setting to Times ; if you set text to 13pt Times it seems the system substitutes Times New Roman 11pt (which looks like 9pt in any other font). And if you set the text to the (Default) font then changes to the textSize of the field have no visible affect, what you get is the default system font at its default size (SF Pro 12pt) Neville From gcanyon at gmail.com Mon Sep 5 22:11:11 2022 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2022 19:11:11 -0700 Subject: Stylistic question. In-Reply-To: <990BFD28-D609-4498-9DF0-A80E605861C4@iotecdigital.com> References: <1818ceeb0b0.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <990BFD28-D609-4498-9DF0-A80E605861C4@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 10:32 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I will however ask for just one enhancement: If I am filtering the list and have an item or items selected, and then I clear the filter, it also clears the selection. It would be great if the selection could be maintained or restored. I checked, and there is code that is supposed to do exactly this. I checked, and at least in the simple scenarios I tried, it works as advertised. Do you have a recipe to make it not work? Note: I think I added this fairly recently, so you probably need the most recent version (or nearly so) for this to work. gc From sean at pidigital.co.uk Tue Sep 6 04:52:25 2022 From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Pi Digital) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 09:52:25 +0100 Subject: Stylistic question. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Arriving late to the conversation. I never put code into buttons other that enough to cover messages. These will only have enough code in them to pass on the rest of the message. Eg on mouseUp pBtn btn_nameOfButtonMUp pBtn end mouseUp on mouseRelease btn_nameOfBtnMRel end mouseRelease Then I’d have the main code in either the card or stack script. Cards and stacks are a lot harder to delete than an object. Too many times I’ve seen objects get deleted accidentally and loose a heap of code. For what it’s worth, my preference is for If/Then/Else rather than Switch/Case/Default. But sometimes it is better, not to mention faster. But even so, for something like an option button I would use on menuPick pOption btn_btnNameMenuP pOption end menuPick Rather than put the switch code into the button. Rebuilding those few lines of code in a lost/deleted button is far easier than trying to remember all of the other operations it could have had in it. I hope you are all well, btw :) Sean Cole Pi Digital From heather at livecode.com Tue Sep 6 05:53:39 2022 From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 10:53:39 +0100 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: <32484F73-F203-4BA0-A748-944EF6BF8E42@optusnet.com.au> References: <32484F73-F203-4BA0-A748-944EF6BF8E42@optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: Neville, That sounds like an incredibly useful exercise. I wonder... could you be persuaded to make that a blog post about fonts across platforms I could put on our website? If yes, contact me offlist :) Best Regards, Heather Heather Laine Customer Services Manager LiveCode Ltd www.livecode.com > On 6 Sep 2022, at 02:27, Neville Smythe via use-livecode wrote: > > I agree Quentin, trying to make text appear exactly the same on all platforms is a fools errand. > > That however is not the main point of the exercise, at least for me. When designing an apps interface, it would be good to know that (at least static) text items will (probably) appear in the same font style and height and the text is all visible: no pixels obscured at top or bottom or left or right, no unintended word-wrapping, and not too close to other objects such as a field border. > > Including one’s own fonts such as Google fonts, which are probably not in the user’s default system setup — on a desktop at least, and setting the baseline as in a previous post, would seem to be a useful addition to the production process (and may even achieve precise equality between Monterey and Windows 10 if my early experiments hold true! ). > > But the most important parameter is of course the text length. The usual mantra is to add about 10% extra padding to the field length. I intend to set up a database for a range of fonts and platforms to check just what extra length is really needed (is that figure of 15% for Linux I quoted actually correct, it sounds unbelievable). I have access to Mac Monterey, Mac High Sierra, and Windows 10 and Ubuntu via Parallels. Once done I will publish the database. Hopefully someone could then add data for Window 11 for example ( and iOS and Android) > > Finally a couple of other comments about fonts on Monterey. I mentioned Times on the Mac being weirdly small. Turns out Times is no longer included in Monterey although it will recognise a scripted setting to Times ; if you set text to 13pt Times it seems the system substitutes Times New Roman 11pt (which looks like 9pt in any other font). > > And if you set the text to the (Default) font then changes to the textSize of the field have no visible affect, what you get is the default system font at its default size (SF Pro 12pt) > > > Neville > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From gcanyon at gmail.com Tue Sep 6 10:55:22 2022 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 07:55:22 -0700 Subject: Stylistic question. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ha, I just realized that I responded to the Navigator part of the conversation without responding to the style part. When I wrote the "convert a control(s) to behaviors" code, I didn't think twice about what to apply it to or not -- I selected everything and converted it all. That was something like five or six years ago, and: Navigator, which I work on seriously, is all behavior scripts. Everything else, which is *not* serious, is zero behavior scripts. I think it needs to be a setting at the IDE level for behaviors to be a thing (for me). For the original question, I always put code in the control that's doing the work, unless it's shared. So utility routines and functions in the card, regular code in the button. From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Sep 6 11:11:54 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 15:11:54 +0000 Subject: Stylistic question. In-Reply-To: References: <1818ceeb0b0.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <990BFD28-D609-4498-9DF0-A80E605861C4@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <87FBDED9-D4FA-4280-AB55-702A7A5DBA09@iotecdigital.com> I'll have a look. Bob S On Sep 5, 2022, at 19:11 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode > wrote: On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 10:32 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: I will however ask for just one enhancement: If I am filtering the list and have an item or items selected, and then I clear the filter, it also clears the selection. It would be great if the selection could be maintained or restored. I checked, and there is code that is supposed to do exactly this. I checked, and at least in the simple scenarios I tried, it works as advertised. Do you have a recipe to make it not work? Note: I think I added this fairly recently, so you probably need the most recent version (or nearly so) for this to work. gc From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Sep 6 11:49:51 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 15:49:51 +0000 Subject: Stylistic question. In-Reply-To: <87FBDED9-D4FA-4280-AB55-702A7A5DBA09@iotecdigital.com> References: <1818ceeb0b0.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <990BFD28-D609-4498-9DF0-A80E605861C4@iotecdigital.com> <87FBDED9-D4FA-4280-AB55-702A7A5DBA09@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <6697AA2B-0FD5-46A1-86CF-381113B80A1E@iotecdigital.com> I went to Github, the latest version is 7.3 RC1 which is what I already had. Not sure where to look for the most recent version. Issue persists for me. Bob S > On Sep 6, 2022, at 08:11 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > I'll have a look. > > Bob S > > > On Sep 5, 2022, at 19:11 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode > wrote: > > On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 10:32 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I will however ask for just one enhancement: If I am filtering the list > and have an item or items selected, and then I clear the filter, it also > clears the selection. It would be great if the selection could be > maintained or restored. > > I checked, and there is code that is supposed to do exactly this. I > checked, and at least in the simple scenarios I tried, it works as > advertised. Do you have a recipe to make it not work? > > Note: I think I added this fairly recently, so you probably need the most > recent version (or nearly so) for this to work. > > gc > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Sep 6 13:13:10 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 17:13:10 +0000 Subject: Cross-platform font handling, and why you don't want to do it In-Reply-To: <018C39CA-3EC2-493B-9AF5-B001771684A8@iotecdigital.com> References: <367339530.2317548.1662361316808.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <367339530.2317548.1662361316808@mail.yahoo.com> <002b01d8c17e$5cd850b0$1688f210$@net> <018C39CA-3EC2-493B-9AF5-B001771684A8@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Sorry to drag this thread on, but it appears that using embedded fonts is worse that I first imagined. After I had set all my label fields to Acme, I repositioned them so that they were contacting the field to the right of them, and I right aligned them all so they had a consistent look. I just noticed however that when I quit Livecode, then relaunch it and open the stack, all the text of the labels appear out of alignment! If I open the Property Editor and select the Font tab, then click one of the labels in Edit mode, the text realigns correctly! As I click each label, that text also realigns. If I set a label to the default system font, this does not happen. That sucks. Big time. At this point I do not know if it is just this particular font, or if it happens to all embedded fonts, but I am fairly taken back. Bob S On Sep 5, 2022, at 17:02 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode > wrote: Well, I am not aiming for *exact* visual match. What I WOULD expect is that if Livecode thinks the name of a font on the MacOS is “Aclonica Regular” then it would think the same thing on a Windows system. I’m talking about an embedded font file here. That “Aclonica” without the “regular” works on both platforms raises an eyebrow. Is LC for MacOS getting it wrong, or is Windows? Sent from my iPhone From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Tue Sep 6 14:59:35 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 14:59:35 -0400 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: <003801d8be28$c8632660$59297320$@net> References: <816C27F1-2EFD-47F9-A507-46245A41158A@gmail.com> <69F805E3-DF6D-4403-BE3E-84CAB718344B@milby7.com> <003801d8be28$c8632660$59297320$@net> Message-ID: Ralph, got the source, somewhere? i'd like to learn from it. testing to begin...now. On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 1:32 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I took a major stab at LCB and created a new widget based on the navbar > widget. I have made 2 changes to the navbar and call it navrad. It does not > modify the stock navbar. With almost no docs it was a challenge. There were > so many unknowns I got a few giant headaches. It adds 4 new > properties(iconFill,autoRADHilite,preHilitedItem, preHilitedItemName) and 1 > new message(preHiliteChanged). I updated the documentation so the new > properties and message show in the dictionary with example(search for > "navrad" or just "rad"). > One thing I ran into was that I had to call the "autohilite" property > autoRADHilite because using any existing property causes a confilict that I > could not get around without sufficient docs. It does show in the property > inspector as "auto hilite". These changes allow 1)enlarge/center the icon > if there is no label 2)intercept a selection before it is hilited and make > a choice to hilite and send the stock hiliteChanged message (or not). Why > no label? For one social media icons don’t need labels. Why a pre message? > Someone suggested it and I thought it was a great idea. Backwards > compatible with existing navbar LCS code. The was an auto sizing to card > width request. I will look to see if I can do it without more docs(or help). > > If anyone would like to try it and find any bugs it's at ==> > https://www.dropbox.com/s/51zm4m8dip49jov/com.livecode.widget.navrad.2.0.0.lce?dl=0 > > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Tue Sep 6 15:28:51 2022 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 15:28:51 -0400 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <816C27F1-2EFD-47F9-A507-46245A41158A@gmail.com> <69F805E3-DF6D-4403-BE3E-84CAB718344B@milby7.com> <003801d8be28$c8632660$59297320$@net> Message-ID: <005a01d8c226$e8596c70$b90c4550$@net> Mike, For future reference the source is in the .lce file. The .lce is in zip format. Temporarily change the extension to .zip. You will see the lcb file in there. Also when you install it the source will be in the extension folder. But since I posted .lce I have put in comments starting with "RAD Change" to show where I have made changes. Here is the link to the updated source==>https://www.dropbox.com/s/bv930usovpruo5e/navrad.lcb?dl=0 Thanks for taking a look! Also I found that after I updated the docs that the docs are generated from the lcb file. I re-built the widget and boom my doc changes were destroyed. No problem I just had redo the docs for my changes in the lcb file. So many unknowns. I am trying to find a way to resize it to the card width with a user setting for height percent of card width. But the docs are so scant and confusing I feel the giant headache coming on again. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2022 3:00 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Mike Kerner Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual Ralph, got the source, somewhere? i'd like to learn from it. testing to begin...now. On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 1:32 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I took a major stab at LCB and created a new widget based on the > navbar widget. I have made 2 changes to the navbar and call it navrad. > It does not modify the stock navbar. With almost no docs it was a > challenge. There were so many unknowns I got a few giant headaches. It > adds 4 new properties(iconFill,autoRADHilite,preHilitedItem, > preHilitedItemName) and 1 new message(preHiliteChanged). I updated the > documentation so the new properties and message show in the dictionary > with example(search for "navrad" or just "rad"). > One thing I ran into was that I had to call the "autohilite" property > autoRADHilite because using any existing property causes a confilict > that I could not get around without sufficient docs. It does show in > the property inspector as "auto hilite". These changes allow > 1)enlarge/center the icon if there is no label 2)intercept a selection > before it is hilited and make a choice to hilite and send the stock > hiliteChanged message (or not). Why no label? For one social media icons don’t need labels. Why a pre message? > Someone suggested it and I thought it was a great idea. Backwards > compatible with existing navbar LCS code. The was an auto sizing to > card width request. I will look to see if I can do it without more docs(or help). > > If anyone would like to try it and find any bugs it's at ==> > https://www.dropbox.com/s/51zm4m8dip49jov/com.livecode.widget.navrad.2 > .0.0.lce?dl=0 > > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From brian at milby7.com Tue Sep 6 15:59:41 2022 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 15:59:41 -0400 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: <005a01d8c226$e8596c70$b90c4550$@net> References: <005a01d8c226$e8596c70$b90c4550$@net> Message-ID: <327C82F3-CA0F-4108-8F46-1372C69F0691@milby7.com> I think the user is going to need to code the width adjustment in the resizeStack handler. Widgets can’t change their rect on their own. It has to happen from the LCS side. Brian Milby brian at milby7.com > On Sep 6, 2022, at 3:29 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote: > > Mike, > > For future reference the source is in the .lce file. The .lce is in zip format. Temporarily change the extension to .zip. You will see the lcb file in there. Also when you install it the source will be in the extension folder. But since I posted .lce I have put in comments starting with "RAD Change" to show where I have made changes. Here is the link to the updated source==>https://www.dropbox.com/s/bv930usovpruo5e/navrad.lcb?dl=0 > > Thanks for taking a look! > > Also I found that after I updated the docs that the docs are generated from the lcb file. I re-built the widget and boom my doc changes were destroyed. No problem I just had redo the docs for my changes in the lcb file. So many unknowns. I am trying to find a way to resize it to the card width with a user setting for height percent of card width. But the docs are so scant and confusing I feel the giant headache coming on again. > > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode > Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2022 3:00 PM > To: How to use LiveCode > Cc: Mike Kerner > Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual > > Ralph, > got the source, somewhere? i'd like to learn from it. > testing to begin...now. > >> On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 1:32 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >> I took a major stab at LCB and created a new widget based on the >> navbar widget. I have made 2 changes to the navbar and call it navrad. >> It does not modify the stock navbar. With almost no docs it was a >> challenge. There were so many unknowns I got a few giant headaches. It >> adds 4 new properties(iconFill,autoRADHilite,preHilitedItem, >> preHilitedItemName) and 1 new message(preHiliteChanged). I updated the >> documentation so the new properties and message show in the dictionary >> with example(search for "navrad" or just "rad"). >> One thing I ran into was that I had to call the "autohilite" property >> autoRADHilite because using any existing property causes a confilict >> that I could not get around without sufficient docs. It does show in >> the property inspector as "auto hilite". These changes allow >> 1)enlarge/center the icon if there is no label 2)intercept a selection >> before it is hilited and make a choice to hilite and send the stock >> hiliteChanged message (or not). Why no label? For one social media icons don’t need labels. Why a pre message? >> Someone suggested it and I thought it was a great idea. Backwards >> compatible with existing navbar LCS code. The was an auto sizing to >> card width request. I will look to see if I can do it without more docs(or help). >> >> If anyone would like to try it and find any bugs it's at ==> >> https://www.dropbox.com/s/51zm4m8dip49jov/com.livecode.widget.navrad.2 >> .0.0.lce?dl=0 >> >> >> Ralph DiMola >> IT Director >> Evergreen Information Services >> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Sep 6 16:19:41 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 20:19:41 +0000 Subject: Cross-platform font handling, and why you don't want to do it In-Reply-To: References: <367339530.2317548.1662361316808.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <367339530.2317548.1662361316808@mail.yahoo.com> <002b01d8c17e$5cd850b0$1688f210$@net> <018C39CA-3EC2-493B-9AF5-B001771684A8@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <943D02FC-205D-49BB-A5D1-8B0611945566@iotecdigital.com> I did some testing. It only happens when loading font files for the first time in a Livecode session from a script on MacOS. Once the font files are loaded, I can close and reopen the stack and the appearance is correct. It does NOT happen on Windows, nor does it happen with any fonts that are installed in the system. But it gets worse. The fonts do not get included in a MacOS standalone, even when I add them to the Copy Files section of the Standalone Application Settings of both the splash stack, and the main stack. Custom Font Support needs a real overhaul. I have already submitted an issue with support. Bob S On Sep 6, 2022, at 10:13 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode > wrote: Sorry to drag this thread on, but it appears that using embedded fonts is worse that I first imagined. After I had set all my label fields to Acme, I repositioned them so that they were contacting the field to the right of them, and I right aligned them all so they had a consistent look. I just noticed however that when I quit Livecode, then relaunch it and open the stack, all the text of the labels appear out of alignment! If I open the Property Editor and select the Font tab, then click one of the labels in Edit mode, the text realigns correctly! As I click each label, that text also realigns. If I set a label to the default system font, this does not happen. That sucks. Big time. At this point I do not know if it is just this particular font, or if it happens to all embedded fonts, but I am fairly taken back. Bob S From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Tue Sep 6 16:19:26 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 16:19:26 -0400 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: <327C82F3-CA0F-4108-8F46-1372C69F0691@milby7.com> References: <005a01d8c226$e8596c70$b90c4550$@net> <327C82F3-CA0F-4108-8F46-1372C69F0691@milby7.com> Message-ID: by the way, isn't it crazy how much overhead is required with lcb widgets? there is so...much...stuff you have to put on top just to get to the heart of the thing. and i'm never going to like the way lc embeds the comments in the source of anything. or the way they spell "favourites", or pronounce "Aluminum". Do you see an extra "i" in there? No? It's invisible, that's why. On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:00 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I think the user is going to need to code the width adjustment in the > resizeStack handler. Widgets can’t change their rect on their own. It has > to happen from the LCS side. > > Brian Milby > brian at milby7.com > > > On Sep 6, 2022, at 3:29 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > Mike, > > > > For future reference the source is in the .lce file. The .lce is in zip > format. Temporarily change the extension to .zip. You will see the lcb file > in there. Also when you install it the source will be in the extension > folder. But since I posted .lce I have put in comments starting with "RAD > Change" to show where I have made changes. Here is the link to the updated > source==>https://www.dropbox.com/s/bv930usovpruo5e/navrad.lcb?dl=0 > > > > Thanks for taking a look! > > > > Also I found that after I updated the docs that the docs are generated > from the lcb file. I re-built the widget and boom my doc changes were > destroyed. No problem I just had redo the docs for my changes in the lcb > file. So many unknowns. I am trying to find a way to resize it to the card > width with a user setting for height percent of card width. But the docs > are so scant and confusing I feel the giant headache coming on again. > > > > > > Ralph DiMola > > IT Director > > Evergreen Information Services > > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On > Behalf Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode > > Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2022 3:00 PM > > To: How to use LiveCode > > Cc: Mike Kerner > > Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual > > > > Ralph, > > got the source, somewhere? i'd like to learn from it. > > testing to begin...now. > > > >> On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 1:32 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> > >> I took a major stab at LCB and created a new widget based on the > >> navbar widget. I have made 2 changes to the navbar and call it navrad. > >> It does not modify the stock navbar. With almost no docs it was a > >> challenge. There were so many unknowns I got a few giant headaches. It > >> adds 4 new properties(iconFill,autoRADHilite,preHilitedItem, > >> preHilitedItemName) and 1 new message(preHiliteChanged). I updated the > >> documentation so the new properties and message show in the dictionary > >> with example(search for "navrad" or just "rad"). > >> One thing I ran into was that I had to call the "autohilite" property > >> autoRADHilite because using any existing property causes a confilict > >> that I could not get around without sufficient docs. It does show in > >> the property inspector as "auto hilite". These changes allow > >> 1)enlarge/center the icon if there is no label 2)intercept a selection > >> before it is hilited and make a choice to hilite and send the stock > >> hiliteChanged message (or not). Why no label? For one social media > icons don’t need labels. Why a pre message? > >> Someone suggested it and I thought it was a great idea. Backwards > >> compatible with existing navbar LCS code. The was an auto sizing to > >> card width request. I will look to see if I can do it without more > docs(or help). > >> > >> If anyone would like to try it and find any bugs it's at ==> > >> https://www.dropbox.com/s/51zm4m8dip49jov/com.livecode.widget.navrad.2 > >> .0.0.lce?dl=0 > >> > >> > >> Ralph DiMola > >> IT Director > >> Evergreen Information Services > >> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second > day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From ahsoftware at sonic.net Tue Sep 6 16:38:40 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 13:38:40 -0700 Subject: alumin(i)um In-Reply-To: References: <005a01d8c226$e8596c70$b90c4550$@net> <327C82F3-CA0F-4108-8F46-1372C69F0691@milby7.com> Message-ID: <4553a5e4-dcc6-ff73-93f9-78893e040f8f@sonic.net> On 9/6/22 13:19, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > or the way they spell "favourites", or pronounce "Aluminum". Do you see an > extra "i" in there? No? It's invisible, that's why. Yeah. About that. The "aluminium" version actually preceded "aluminum" by several years, so if anything the U.S. version is actually the weird one. There are very few other elements that veer from the standard "ium" suffix into just "um": molybdenum, lanthanum,, tantalum, platinum, and all of those are transition metals. https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/aluminum-vs-aluminium -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Sep 6 16:53:33 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 20:53:33 +0000 Subject: alumin(i)um In-Reply-To: <4553a5e4-dcc6-ff73-93f9-78893e040f8f@sonic.net> References: <005a01d8c226$e8596c70$b90c4550$@net> <327C82F3-CA0F-4108-8F46-1372C69F0691@milby7.com> <4553a5e4-dcc6-ff73-93f9-78893e040f8f@sonic.net> Message-ID: Excerpt from WordOrigins.org: In 1808, British chemist Humphry Davy postulated the existence of a metallic form of alumina ore, which he dubbed alumium. Davy later changed the name to aluminum. He writes in his 1812 Elements of Chemical Philosophy: "As yet Aluminum has not been obtained in a perfectly free state." Yet that same year, other British chemists settled on the name aluminium, the ending of which they thought was more consistent with the other elements. So the theoretical substance was dubbed Aluminum first, but other scientists decided to call it Aluminium, even though no one knew if it existed or could exist yet. Bob S > On Sep 6, 2022, at 13:38 , Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > > On 9/6/22 13:19, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > >> or the way they spell "favourites", or pronounce "Aluminum". Do you see an >> extra "i" in there? No? It's invisible, that's why. > > Yeah. About that. > The "aluminium" version actually preceded "aluminum" by several years, so if anything the U.S. version is actually the weird one. There are very few other elements that veer from the standard "ium" suffix into just "um": molybdenum, lanthanum,, tantalum, platinum, and all of those are transition metals. > > https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/aluminum-vs-aluminium > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Sep 6 16:58:13 2022 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 23:58:13 +0300 Subject: alumin(i)um In-Reply-To: References: <005a01d8c226$e8596c70$b90c4550$@net> <327C82F3-CA0F-4108-8F46-1372C69F0691@milby7.com> <4553a5e4-dcc6-ff73-93f9-78893e040f8f@sonic.net> Message-ID: Well, in Scots it's "alumeenium", which just sounds like a Scot suffered from bad spelling. On Tue, 6 Sept 2022, 23:54 Bob Sneidar via use-livecode, < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Excerpt from WordOrigins.org: > > In 1808, British chemist Humphry Davy postulated the existence of a > metallic form of alumina ore, which he dubbed alumium. > > Davy later changed the name to aluminum. He writes in his 1812 Elements of > Chemical Philosophy: "As yet Aluminum has not been obtained in a perfectly > free state." > > Yet that same year, other British chemists settled on the name aluminium, > the ending of which they thought was more consistent with the other > elements. > > So the theoretical substance was dubbed Aluminum first, but other > scientists decided to call it Aluminium, even though no one knew if it > existed or could exist yet. > > Bob S > > > > > On Sep 6, 2022, at 13:38 , Mark Wieder via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > On 9/6/22 13:19, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > > >> or the way they spell "favourites", or pronounce "Aluminum". Do you see > an > >> extra "i" in there? No? It's invisible, that's why. > > > > Yeah. About that. > > The "aluminium" version actually preceded "aluminum" by several years, > so if anything the U.S. version is actually the weird one. There are very > few other elements that veer from the standard "ium" suffix into just "um": > molybdenum, lanthanum,, tantalum, platinum, and all of those are transition > metals. > > > > https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/aluminum-vs-aluminium > > > > -- > > Mark Wieder > > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From harrison at all-auctions.com Tue Sep 6 17:36:32 2022 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 17:36:32 -0400 Subject: Standalone Application Error In-Reply-To: References: <367339530.2317548.1662361316808.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <367339530.2317548.1662361316808@mail.yahoo.com> <002b01d8c17e$5cd850b0$1688f210$@net> <018C39CA-3EC2-493B-9AF5-B001771684A8@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <11AECC76-E8F3-41D5-826E-6AD38E436C20@all-auctions.com> Greetings LiveCoders, I came up against this error today: There was an error while saving the standalone application Adding ad-hoc signature failed with error: (path name to app): replacing existing signature xcrun: error: invalid active developer path (/Library/Developer/CommandLineTools), missing xcrun at: /Library/Developer/CommandLineTools/usr/bin/xcrun (path name to app): the codesign_allocate helper tool cannot be found or used In subcomponent (path name to app):/Contents/MacOS/revsecurity.dylib Is this just saying I don’t have Xcode installed, or is more complex than that? The program works fine in the IDE, I just can’t build the standalone. Anyone else ever get this one? Thanks, Rick From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Tue Sep 6 18:00:05 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2022 00:00:05 +0200 Subject: Standalone Application Error In-Reply-To: <11AECC76-E8F3-41D5-826E-6AD38E436C20@all-auctions.com> References: <367339530.2317548.1662361316808.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <367339530.2317548.1662361316808@mail.yahoo.com> <002b01d8c17e$5cd850b0$1688f210$@net> <018C39CA-3EC2-493B-9AF5-B001771684A8@iotecdigital.com> <11AECC76-E8F3-41D5-826E-6AD38E436C20@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: <142F9442-6D73-488E-B418-8DC76A529E46@m-r-d.de> You need at least the xCode command line tools installed. If you have an Apple Developer account, then please see here https://developer.apple.com/download/all/?q=command%20line%20tools to see all avaiables versions of the command line tools. Please download the one that is supported by your Livecode version (see the LC release notes for xCode support). Regards, Matthias > Am 06.09.2022 um 23:36 schrieb harrison--- via use-livecode : > > Greetings LiveCoders, > > I came up against this error today: > > There was an error while saving the standalone application > Adding ad-hoc signature failed with error: > (path name to app): replacing existing signature > xcrun: error: invalid active developer path (/Library/Developer/CommandLineTools), missing xcrun at: > /Library/Developer/CommandLineTools/usr/bin/xcrun > (path name to app): the codesign_allocate helper tool > cannot be found or used > In subcomponent > (path name to app):/Contents/MacOS/revsecurity.dylib > > Is this just saying I don’t have Xcode installed, or is > more complex than that? > > The program works fine in the IDE, I just can’t build the standalone. > > Anyone else ever get this one? > > Thanks, > > Rick > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From harrison at all-auctions.com Tue Sep 6 18:03:33 2022 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 18:03:33 -0400 Subject: Standalone Application Error In-Reply-To: <142F9442-6D73-488E-B418-8DC76A529E46@m-r-d.de> References: <367339530.2317548.1662361316808.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <367339530.2317548.1662361316808@mail.yahoo.com> <002b01d8c17e$5cd850b0$1688f210$@net> <018C39CA-3EC2-493B-9AF5-B001771684A8@iotecdigital.com> <11AECC76-E8F3-41D5-826E-6AD38E436C20@all-auctions.com> <142F9442-6D73-488E-B418-8DC76A529E46@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <587889E0-1A03-49D3-A631-F43B6DD95B03@all-auctions.com> Hi Matthias, I will do that. Thanks! Rick > On Sep 6, 2022, at 6:00 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > > You need at least the xCode command line tools installed. > > If you have an Apple Developer account, then please see > here > https://developer.apple.com/download/all/?q=command%20line%20tools > > to see all avaiables versions of the command line tools. > > Please download the one that is supported by your Livecode version (see the LC release notes for xCode support). > > Regards, > Matthias > > >> Am 06.09.2022 um 23:36 schrieb harrison--- via use-livecode : >> >> Greetings LiveCoders, >> >> I came up against this error today: >> >> There was an error while saving the standalone application >> Adding ad-hoc signature failed with error: >> (path name to app): replacing existing signature >> xcrun: error: invalid active developer path (/Library/Developer/CommandLineTools), missing xcrun at: >> /Library/Developer/CommandLineTools/usr/bin/xcrun >> (path name to app): the codesign_allocate helper tool >> cannot be found or used >> In subcomponent >> (path name to app):/Contents/MacOS/revsecurity.dylib >> >> Is this just saying I don’t have Xcode installed, or is >> more complex than that? >> >> The program works fine in the IDE, I just can’t build the standalone. >> >> Anyone else ever get this one? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Rick >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ahsoftware at sonic.net Tue Sep 6 18:22:29 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 15:22:29 -0700 Subject: alumin(i)um In-Reply-To: References: <005a01d8c226$e8596c70$b90c4550$@net> <327C82F3-CA0F-4108-8F46-1372C69F0691@milby7.com> <4553a5e4-dcc6-ff73-93f9-78893e040f8f@sonic.net> Message-ID: On 9/6/22 13:53, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > So the theoretical substance was dubbed Aluminum first That's "alumium" first. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Sep 6 18:30:50 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 15:30:50 -0700 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: <1AF693E6-CD76-4434-AEDE-B7E3DADF4C42@iotecdigital.com> References: <1AF693E6-CD76-4434-AEDE-B7E3DADF4C42@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <2dea7721-befc-e4da-8689-76510550550f@fourthworld.com> Bob Sneidar wrote: > That's great for buttons. I'd like to implement something for all > objects. My goal is to be able to offer the end user a way to change > their "motif" with a single click. Imagine being able to set the > properties of an object designated as a "class object", the object > then getting a propertyChanged message, and then having that > propertyChanged handler trigger the change of all the subscribed > properties of all the objects that are an instance of that class or > sub-class. Sounds very much like the way word processors manage styles: define a set of attributes, assign a name to the set, apply that set by name to selections as you go. If a change is needed just edit the style definition, click "Save Changes", and the changes are propagated to all objects to which that style has been assigned. Do I understand the desired workflow? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Sep 6 18:32:53 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 22:32:53 +0000 Subject: alumin(i)um In-Reply-To: References: <005a01d8c226$e8596c70$b90c4550$@net> <327C82F3-CA0F-4108-8F46-1372C69F0691@milby7.com> <4553a5e4-dcc6-ff73-93f9-78893e040f8f@sonic.net> Message-ID: <382FB6AA-7BD3-48B8-9A60-22C12E55AFB8@iotecdigital.com> I mean first before Alunimium. Bob S On Sep 6, 2022, at 15:22 , Mark Wieder via use-livecode > wrote: On 9/6/22 13:53, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: So the theoretical substance was dubbed Aluminum first That's "alumium" first. -- Mark Wieder From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Sep 6 18:34:30 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 22:34:30 +0000 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: <2dea7721-befc-e4da-8689-76510550550f@fourthworld.com> References: <1AF693E6-CD76-4434-AEDE-B7E3DADF4C42@iotecdigital.com> <2dea7721-befc-e4da-8689-76510550550f@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <84A3D906-ECAB-4B29-91C0-CC62292EEF99@iotecdigital.com> Yes but I had more in mind then display properties like font size and style. Bob S On Sep 6, 2022, at 15:30 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode > wrote: Bob Sneidar wrote: > That's great for buttons. I'd like to implement something for all > objects. My goal is to be able to offer the end user a way to change > their "motif" with a single click. Imagine being able to set the > properties of an object designated as a "class object", the object > then getting a propertyChanged message, and then having that > propertyChanged handler trigger the change of all the subscribed > properties of all the objects that are an instance of that class or > sub-class. Sounds very much like the way word processors manage styles: define a set of attributes, assign a name to the set, apply that set by name to selections as you go. If a change is needed just edit the style definition, click "Save Changes", and the changes are propagated to all objects to which that style has been assigned. Do I understand the desired workflow? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Tue Sep 6 19:32:36 2022 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2022 09:32:36 +1000 Subject: Cross-platform font handling, and why you don't want to do it Message-ID: Bob Sneider wrote: > The fonts do not get included in a MacOS standalone embedding fonts in a Mac standalone worked fine for me. Have you checked that the fonts are actually in /Contents/Resources/_MacOS/ and your file path when loading is correct On the IDE problem > when I quit Livecode, then relaunch it and open the stack, all the text of the labels appear out of alignment! sounds like a timing problem about what resources are available when LiveCode launches and your stack gets to do its font loading (in a pre-open stack handler?) and that the timing on Windows launch is just different. Neville Smythe From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Sep 6 19:48:06 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 23:48:06 +0000 Subject: Cross-platform font handling, and why you don't want to do it In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45B3C86D-256B-4576-845F-7431AD75D9A3@iotecdigital.com> I'm going through my code and disabling the places where I check if a standalone is being built. I put that in there to try and get around the problem where I get alerted that stacks are in use, but that code doesn't work anyway. I still have to build one platform at a time, quitting LC between each. I think that the build code is somehow not seeing that I am loading font files in the preOpenStack handler. Bob S On Sep 6, 2022, at 16:32 , Neville Smythe via use-livecode > wrote: Bob Sneider wrote: The fonts do not get included in a MacOS standalone embedding fonts in a Mac standalone worked fine for me. Have you checked that the fonts are actually in /Contents/Resources/_MacOS/ and your file path when loading is correct From gcanyon at gmail.com Wed Sep 7 03:16:22 2022 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2022 00:16:22 -0700 Subject: Stylistic question. In-Reply-To: <6697AA2B-0FD5-46A1-86CF-381113B80A1E@iotecdigital.com> References: <1818ceeb0b0.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <990BFD28-D609-4498-9DF0-A80E605861C4@iotecdigital.com> <87FBDED9-D4FA-4280-AB55-702A7A5DBA09@iotecdigital.com> <6697AA2B-0FD5-46A1-86CF-381113B80A1E@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Okay, I figured it out. When Navigator is displaying whatever the contents are of the current card (its default state) it syncs the selection with the selected controls. This goes both ways, so it's important not to get stuck in a loop: Navigator sets the selected controls, which in turn triggers Navigator to update its selection, which sets the selected controls, and so on. My code set a flag when changing the selection to stop that endless cycle, and that flag was stopping updates when the filter changes. So selections were retained when a specific card or group was displayed, but not retained when showing the top card "live". I've fixed this I think. I've also fixed named bookmark sets. I want to add an option on stacks to display all cards within the stack (and maybe all controls within the stack). And I want to run some tests on how fast Navigator is at this point, and do some regression testing, and then I'll release an update. Thanks for the report! gc On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 8:50 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I went to Github, the latest version is 7.3 RC1 which is what I already > had. Not sure where to look for the most recent version. Issue persists for > me. > > Bob S > > > > On Sep 6, 2022, at 08:11 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > I'll have a look. > > > > Bob S > > > > > > On Sep 5, 2022, at 19:11 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> > wrote: > > > > On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 10:32 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> > wrote: > > I will however ask for just one enhancement: If I am filtering the list > > and have an item or items selected, and then I clear the filter, it also > > clears the selection. It would be great if the selection could be > > maintained or restored. > > > > I checked, and there is code that is supposed to do exactly this. I > > checked, and at least in the simple scenarios I tried, it works as > > advertised. Do you have a recipe to make it not work? > > > > Note: I think I added this fairly recently, so you probably need the most > > recent version (or nearly so) for this to work. > > > > gc > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Sep 7 11:03:23 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2022 15:03:23 +0000 Subject: Stylistic question. In-Reply-To: References: <1818ceeb0b0.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <990BFD28-D609-4498-9DF0-A80E605861C4@iotecdigital.com> <87FBDED9-D4FA-4280-AB55-702A7A5DBA09@iotecdigital.com> <6697AA2B-0FD5-46A1-86CF-381113B80A1E@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Awesome good job. Bob S > On Sep 7, 2022, at 24:16 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode wrote: > > Okay, I figured it out. When Navigator is displaying whatever the contents > are of the current card (its default state) it syncs the selection with the > selected controls. This goes both ways, so it's important not to get stuck > in a loop: Navigator sets the selected controls, which in turn triggers > Navigator to update its selection, which sets the selected controls, and so > on. > > My code set a flag when changing the selection to stop that endless cycle, > and that flag was stopping updates when the filter changes. > > So selections were retained when a specific card or group was displayed, > but not retained when showing the top card "live". > > I've fixed this I think. I've also fixed named bookmark sets. I want to add > an option on stacks to display all cards within the stack (and maybe all > controls within the stack). And I want to run some tests on how fast > Navigator is at this point, and do some regression testing, and then I'll > release an update. > > Thanks for the report! > > gc > > On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 8:50 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> I went to Github, the latest version is 7.3 RC1 which is what I already >> had. Not sure where to look for the most recent version. Issue persists for >> me. >> >> Bob S >> >> >>> On Sep 6, 2022, at 08:11 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>> I'll have a look. >>> >>> Bob S >>> >>> >>> On Sep 5, 2022, at 19:11 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> >> wrote: >>> >>> On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 10:32 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> >> wrote: >>> I will however ask for just one enhancement: If I am filtering the list >>> and have an item or items selected, and then I clear the filter, it also >>> clears the selection. It would be great if the selection could be >>> maintained or restored. >>> >>> I checked, and there is code that is supposed to do exactly this. I >>> checked, and at least in the simple scenarios I tried, it works as >>> advertised. Do you have a recipe to make it not work? >>> >>> Note: I think I added this fairly recently, so you probably need the most >>> recent version (or nearly so) for this to work. >>> >>> gc >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Sep 7 11:50:02 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2022 15:50:02 +0000 Subject: Cross-platform font handling, and why you don't want to do it In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <69AECD7F-A2AB-4253-9593-8236A1F14F6C@iotecdigital.com> After I start using the font files I added a line to wait 10 ticks with messages. Same thing. I came up with a workaround though. If I set the rect of an object to it's current rect it forces a redraw. Curiously, if I set the rect of the entire stack to it's current rect it does NOT force a redraw. Bob S > On Sep 6, 2022, at 16:32 , Neville Smythe via use-livecode wrote: > > > Bob Sneider wrote: >> The fonts do not get included in a MacOS standalone > > > embedding fonts in a Mac standalone worked fine for me. Have you checked that the fonts are actually in /Contents/Resources/_MacOS/ and your file path when loading is correct > > On the IDE problem >> when I quit Livecode, then relaunch it and open the stack, all the text of the labels appear out of alignment! > > sounds like a timing problem about what resources are available when LiveCode launches and your stack gets to do its font loading (in a pre-open stack handler?) and that the timing on Windows launch is just different. > > Neville Smythe > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Sep 7 15:24:56 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2022 12:24:56 -0700 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: <84A3D906-ECAB-4B29-91C0-CC62292EEF99@iotecdigital.com> References: <84A3D906-ECAB-4B29-91C0-CC62292EEF99@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: You can have that. You don't need a message. Too many possibilities to try to anticipate in a list email. Give me a call and let's discuss. I'll bet in under 20 minutes you'll be fired up and crafting the styling subsystem of your dreams. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Bob Sneidar wrote: > > Yes but I had more in mind then display properties like font size and style. > > Bob S > > > On Sep 6, 2022, at 15:30 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode > wrote: > > Bob Sneidar wrote: > >> That's great for buttons. I'd like to implement something for all >> objects. My goal is to be able to offer the end user a way to change >> their "motif" with a single click. Imagine being able to set the >> properties of an object designated as a "class object", the object >> then getting a propertyChanged message, and then having that >> propertyChanged handler trigger the change of all the subscribed >> properties of all the objects that are an instance of that class or >> sub-class. > > Sounds very much like the way word processors manage styles: define a set of attributes, assign a name to the set, apply that set by name to selections as you go. > > If a change is needed just edit the style definition, click "Save Changes", and the changes are propagated to all objects to which that style has been assigned. > > Do I understand the desired workflow? > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Sep 7 18:03:10 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2022 22:03:10 +0000 Subject: Stylistic question. In-Reply-To: References: <1818ceeb0b0.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <990BFD28-D609-4498-9DF0-A80E605861C4@iotecdigital.com> <87FBDED9-D4FA-4280-AB55-702A7A5DBA09@iotecdigital.com> <6697AA2B-0FD5-46A1-86CF-381113B80A1E@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <1E86E371-EF17-4985-BE57-938BA45A2D64@iotecdigital.com> While you are at it, selecting the card, then selecting the Inspector button in the toolbar gets the stack properties, not the card properties. I know I can right-click and get the card properties, but if this is not the intended behavior I figured you'd want to know. Bob S > On Sep 7, 2022, at 08:03 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > Awesome good job. > > Bob S > > >> On Sep 7, 2022, at 24:16 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Okay, I figured it out. When Navigator is displaying whatever the contents >> are of the current card (its default state) it syncs the selection with the >> selected controls. This goes both ways, so it's important not to get stuck >> in a loop: Navigator sets the selected controls, which in turn triggers >> Navigator to update its selection, which sets the selected controls, and so >> on. >> >> My code set a flag when changing the selection to stop that endless cycle, >> and that flag was stopping updates when the filter changes. >> >> So selections were retained when a specific card or group was displayed, >> but not retained when showing the top card "live". >> >> I've fixed this I think. I've also fixed named bookmark sets. I want to add >> an option on stacks to display all cards within the stack (and maybe all >> controls within the stack). And I want to run some tests on how fast >> Navigator is at this point, and do some regression testing, and then I'll >> release an update. >> >> Thanks for the report! >> >> gc >> >> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 8:50 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>> I went to Github, the latest version is 7.3 RC1 which is what I already >>> had. Not sure where to look for the most recent version. Issue persists for >>> me. >>> >>> Bob S >>> >>> >>>> On Sep 6, 2022, at 08:11 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> I'll have a look. >>>> >>>> Bob S >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sep 5, 2022, at 19:11 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 10:32 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> >>> wrote: >>>> I will however ask for just one enhancement: If I am filtering the list >>>> and have an item or items selected, and then I clear the filter, it also >>>> clears the selection. It would be great if the selection could be >>>> maintained or restored. >>>> >>>> I checked, and there is code that is supposed to do exactly this. I >>>> checked, and at least in the simple scenarios I tried, it works as >>>> advertised. Do you have a recipe to make it not work? >>>> >>>> Note: I think I added this fairly recently, so you probably need the most >>>> recent version (or nearly so) for this to work. >>>> >>>> gc >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Sep 7 19:47:51 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2022 23:47:51 +0000 Subject: System Time Zone Message-ID: Hi all. I am exploring the possibility of creating a scheduling module, and am reading up on the iCalendar specification. I can localize the date and time by entering a valid time zone, and can hard code it for where I am at, but I want to be able to use this anywhere. The format of a localized time in iCalendar looks something like: DTSTAMP;TZID=America/Los_Angeles:20220907T163000 It's the, "America/Los_Angeles" bit I am trying to find a way to grok. How can I extract that in LC? Isn't there some kind of function that will return the current system's time zone? Bob S From ahsoftware at sonic.net Wed Sep 7 20:14:42 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2022 17:14:42 -0700 Subject: System Time Zone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 9/7/22 16:47, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > It's the, "America/Los_Angeles" bit I am trying to find a way to grok. How can I extract that in LC? Isn't there some kind of function that will return the current system's time zone? linux: put the last word of shell("date") osx: put word -2 of shell("date") Windows (possibly one of these) NOTE: empirically these return different values. ymmv: tzutil /g systeminfo | findstr /C:Time Zone -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Sep 7 21:46:01 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2022 20:46:01 -0500 Subject: System Time Zone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1831ac683a8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> "The internet time" gives you the offset from Greenwich time. No city though. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On September 7, 2022 6:50:09 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > Hi all. > > I am exploring the possibility of creating a scheduling module, and am > reading up on the iCalendar specification. I can localize the date and time > by entering a valid time zone, and can hard code it for where I am at, but > I want to be able to use this anywhere. > > The format of a localized time in iCalendar looks something like: > > DTSTAMP;TZID=America/Los_Angeles:20220907T163000 > > It's the, "America/Los_Angeles" bit I am trying to find a way to grok. How > can I extract that in LC? Isn't there some kind of function that will > return the current system's time zone? > > Bob S > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From Bernd.Niggemann at uni-wh.de Thu Sep 8 01:59:59 2022 From: Bernd.Niggemann at uni-wh.de (Niggemann, Bernd) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2022 05:59:59 +0000 Subject: System Time Zone Message-ID: Bob Sneidar via use-livecode Wed, 07 Sep 2022 16:49:43 -0700 Isn't there some kind of function that will return the current system's time zone? Hi Bob, there is a timeZone library in LC, maybe that is of help. Please be aware that some entries in the timeZone library are deprecated. https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23012 The bug report has a stack that uses the library. Kind regards Bernd From gcanyon at gmail.com Thu Sep 8 03:46:59 2022 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2022 00:46:59 -0700 Subject: Stylistic question. In-Reply-To: <1E86E371-EF17-4985-BE57-938BA45A2D64@iotecdigital.com> References: <1818ceeb0b0.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <990BFD28-D609-4498-9DF0-A80E605861C4@iotecdigital.com> <87FBDED9-D4FA-4280-AB55-702A7A5DBA09@iotecdigital.com> <6697AA2B-0FD5-46A1-86CF-381113B80A1E@iotecdigital.com> <1E86E371-EF17-4985-BE57-938BA45A2D64@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Hmm, I'll take a look. On Wed, Sep 7, 2022 at 3:04 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > While you are at it, selecting the card, then selecting the Inspector > button in the toolbar gets the stack properties, not the card properties. I > know I can right-click and get the card properties, but if this is not the > intended behavior I figured you'd want to know. > > Bob S > > > > On Sep 7, 2022, at 08:03 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > Awesome good job. > > > > Bob S > > > > > >> On Sep 7, 2022, at 24:16 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> > >> Okay, I figured it out. When Navigator is displaying whatever the > contents > >> are of the current card (its default state) it syncs the selection with > the > >> selected controls. This goes both ways, so it's important not to get > stuck > >> in a loop: Navigator sets the selected controls, which in turn triggers > >> Navigator to update its selection, which sets the selected controls, > and so > >> on. > >> > >> My code set a flag when changing the selection to stop that endless > cycle, > >> and that flag was stopping updates when the filter changes. > >> > >> So selections were retained when a specific card or group was displayed, > >> but not retained when showing the top card "live". > >> > >> I've fixed this I think. I've also fixed named bookmark sets. I want to > add > >> an option on stacks to display all cards within the stack (and maybe all > >> controls within the stack). And I want to run some tests on how fast > >> Navigator is at this point, and do some regression testing, and then > I'll > >> release an update. > >> > >> Thanks for the report! > >> > >> gc > >> > >> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 8:50 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> > >>> I went to Github, the latest version is 7.3 RC1 which is what I already > >>> had. Not sure where to look for the most recent version. Issue > persists for > >>> me. > >>> > >>> Bob S > >>> > >>> > >>>> On Sep 6, 2022, at 08:11 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> I'll have a look. > >>>> > >>>> Bob S > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Sep 5, 2022, at 19:11 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode < > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> > >>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 10:32 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < > >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> > >>> wrote: > >>>> I will however ask for just one enhancement: If I am filtering the > list > >>>> and have an item or items selected, and then I clear the filter, it > also > >>>> clears the selection. It would be great if the selection could be > >>>> maintained or restored. > >>>> > >>>> I checked, and there is code that is supposed to do exactly this. I > >>>> checked, and at least in the simple scenarios I tried, it works as > >>>> advertised. Do you have a recipe to make it not work? > >>>> > >>>> Note: I think I added this fairly recently, so you probably need the > most > >>>> recent version (or nearly so) for this to work. > >>>> > >>>> gc > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> use-livecode mailing list > >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>> subscription preferences: > >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> use-livecode mailing list > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>> subscription preferences: > >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From gcanyon at gmail.com Thu Sep 8 03:54:18 2022 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2022 00:54:18 -0700 Subject: Stylistic question. In-Reply-To: <1E86E371-EF17-4985-BE57-938BA45A2D64@iotecdigital.com> References: <1818ceeb0b0.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <990BFD28-D609-4498-9DF0-A80E605861C4@iotecdigital.com> <87FBDED9-D4FA-4280-AB55-702A7A5DBA09@iotecdigital.com> <6697AA2B-0FD5-46A1-86CF-381113B80A1E@iotecdigital.com> <1E86E371-EF17-4985-BE57-938BA45A2D64@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Can you be more specific? I tried selecting the card both in the live display and the specific card display, and then on the Properties "P" menu I selected Property Editor, Single Object Inspector, and Individual Object Inspectors, and it always came up showing the card. On Wed, Sep 7, 2022 at 3:04 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > While you are at it, selecting the card, then selecting the Inspector > button in the toolbar gets the stack properties, not the card properties. I > know I can right-click and get the card properties, but if this is not the > intended behavior I figured you'd want to know. > > Bob S > > > > On Sep 7, 2022, at 08:03 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > Awesome good job. > > > > Bob S > > > > > >> On Sep 7, 2022, at 24:16 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> > >> Okay, I figured it out. When Navigator is displaying whatever the > contents > >> are of the current card (its default state) it syncs the selection with > the > >> selected controls. This goes both ways, so it's important not to get > stuck > >> in a loop: Navigator sets the selected controls, which in turn triggers > >> Navigator to update its selection, which sets the selected controls, > and so > >> on. > >> > >> My code set a flag when changing the selection to stop that endless > cycle, > >> and that flag was stopping updates when the filter changes. > >> > >> So selections were retained when a specific card or group was displayed, > >> but not retained when showing the top card "live". > >> > >> I've fixed this I think. I've also fixed named bookmark sets. I want to > add > >> an option on stacks to display all cards within the stack (and maybe all > >> controls within the stack). And I want to run some tests on how fast > >> Navigator is at this point, and do some regression testing, and then > I'll > >> release an update. > >> > >> Thanks for the report! > >> > >> gc > >> > >> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 8:50 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> > >>> I went to Github, the latest version is 7.3 RC1 which is what I already > >>> had. Not sure where to look for the most recent version. Issue > persists for > >>> me. > >>> > >>> Bob S > >>> > >>> > >>>> On Sep 6, 2022, at 08:11 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> I'll have a look. > >>>> > >>>> Bob S > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Sep 5, 2022, at 19:11 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode < > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> > >>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 10:32 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < > >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> > >>> wrote: > >>>> I will however ask for just one enhancement: If I am filtering the > list > >>>> and have an item or items selected, and then I clear the filter, it > also > >>>> clears the selection. It would be great if the selection could be > >>>> maintained or restored. > >>>> > >>>> I checked, and there is code that is supposed to do exactly this. I > >>>> checked, and at least in the simple scenarios I tried, it works as > >>>> advertised. Do you have a recipe to make it not work? > >>>> > >>>> Note: I think I added this fairly recently, so you probably need the > most > >>>> recent version (or nearly so) for this to work. > >>>> > >>>> gc > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> use-livecode mailing list > >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>> subscription preferences: > >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> use-livecode mailing list > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>> subscription preferences: > >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Sep 8 11:26:48 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2022 15:26:48 +0000 Subject: System Time Zone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Returns PDT. I will now have to get a list of all time zone abbreviations and do a lookup table. Bob S On Sep 7, 2022, at 17:14 , Mark Wieder via use-livecode > wrote: osx: put word -2 of shell("date") From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Sep 8 11:34:53 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2022 15:34:53 +0000 Subject: System Time Zone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40176461-B5A9-467B-8651-E95AAB004DF3@iotecdigital.com> You can get the timezone of a widget, get a list of ALL time zones, convert to and from universal time. There is no way it seems to geet the current time zone of the system. Bob S > On Sep 7, 2022, at 22:59 , Niggemann, Bernd via use-livecode wrote: > > Bob Sneidar via use-livecode Wed, 07 Sep 2022 16:49:43 -0700 > > Isn't there some kind of function that will return the > current system's time zone? > > > Hi Bob, > there is a timeZone library in LC, maybe that is of help. > > Please be aware that some entries in the timeZone library are deprecated. > > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23012 > > The bug report has a stack that uses the library. > > Kind regards > Bernd > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Sep 8 11:37:53 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2022 15:37:53 +0000 Subject: Stylistic question. In-Reply-To: References: <1818ceeb0b0.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <990BFD28-D609-4498-9DF0-A80E605861C4@iotecdigital.com> <87FBDED9-D4FA-4280-AB55-702A7A5DBA09@iotecdigital.com> <6697AA2B-0FD5-46A1-86CF-381113B80A1E@iotecdigital.com> <1E86E371-EF17-4985-BE57-938BA45A2D64@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <38D7510C-9393-4E57-9239-702EE456ACB1@iotecdigital.com> Yes that works. What doesn't work is selecting the card in the list, then clicking the Inspector button in the LC IDE toolbar. It's easier for me to do that because if I click another object in Navigator, the focus of the Inspector (Properties Editor) changes to the selected object. If I do the right-click single object method, sometimes the focus does NOT change, and I have to do the right-click thungummy again. Bob S On Sep 8, 2022, at 24:54 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode > wrote: Can you be more specific? I tried selecting the card both in the live display and the specific card display, and then on the Properties "P" menu I selected Property Editor, Single Object Inspector, and Individual Object Inspectors, and it always came up showing the card. From ahsoftware at sonic.net Thu Sep 8 13:04:41 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2022 10:04:41 -0700 Subject: Excel Lib fail (solved!) In-Reply-To: <26f62937-4687-39a9-b49a-b4cc98a39259@sonic.net> References: <9e4bc610-59b4-7b49-b95a-bd03e38f5503@sonic.net> <26f62937-4687-39a9-b49a-b4cc98a39259@sonic.net> Message-ID: On 9/3/22 20:36, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > On 9/3/22 10:35, zryip theSlug via use-livecode wrote: >> Dear Mark, >> >> Due to this article, maybe? >> >> https://livecode.com/xlsx-lib-a-bonus-library-included-with-excel-library-in-the-megabundle-offer/ >> > > Yep. That's it. Thanks. > ...and i can now say that after playing with the library for a few days it's working well and doing everything I need it to. I'm importing a csv format file (format not under my control), totalling columns, displaying the data in a datagrid, formtting columns and rows, and exporting as an xlsx file for LibreOffice. I realize it's still labeled "experimental" and that some of the data formats may change, but they look like they'll be easy to deal with when that day comes. Well done. Highly recommended. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From klaus at major-k.de Fri Sep 9 06:00:26 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 12:00:26 +0200 Subject: LC converts phone number to scientific notation Message-ID: <74920219-28CD-46EA-825A-61AB3EC0006F@major-k.de> Hi friends, I have a very strange problem, but also found a workaround for it. I first convert an 8 MB CSV file with 60000 lines to TAB delimited data, then I parse the file and just extract some columns from the 60000 lines to display in a field. E.g. the column "number dialled", which contains phone number like -> 447973100123 The CSV files are definitively correct but I found that in the resulting field some of these numbers appear in scientific notation -> 4.47888E+11 This does not happen with phone numbers with a leading ZERO: like -> 07557162491 So maybe this a small hint? However I do not even touch these items I just use: ... put item 9 of tLine into item 6 of tNewLine ## tLine is the line from the CSV and tNewLine is for the data in the display field. ... My simple workaround, no idea why, but it obviously works: ... put item 9 of tLine into ttt put ttt into item 6 of tNewLine ... This avoids the scientific notation, what the hell is going on here? Any hints welcome. Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From merakosp at gmail.com Fri Sep 9 06:27:27 2022 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis m) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 13:27:27 +0300 Subject: LC converts phone number to scientific notation In-Reply-To: <74920219-28CD-46EA-825A-61AB3EC0006F@major-k.de> References: <74920219-28CD-46EA-825A-61AB3EC0006F@major-k.de> Message-ID: Hello Klaus, I guess what happens here is that if you fetch item X of line Y and use it directly, LC treats it as a number and displays it in scientific notation. On the contrary, if you first put item X of line Y into a variable, then the variable is treated as text, so it is not converted. Kind regards, Panos -- On Fri, 9 Sept 2022 at 13:01, Klaus major-k via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi friends, > > I have a very strange problem, but also found a workaround for it. > > I first convert an 8 MB CSV file with 60000 lines to TAB delimited data, > then I parse the file > and just extract some columns from the 60000 lines to display in a field. > E.g. the column "number dialled", which contains phone number like > -> 447973100123 > > The CSV files are definitively correct but I found that in the resulting > field some of these numbers > appear in scientific notation > -> 4.47888E+11 > > This does not happen with phone numbers with a leading ZERO: like > -> 07557162491 > So maybe this a small hint? > > However I do not even touch these items I just use: > ... > put item 9 of tLine into item 6 of tNewLine > ## tLine is the line from the CSV and tNewLine is for the data in the > display field. > ... > > My simple workaround, no idea why, but it obviously works: > ... > put item 9 of tLine into ttt > put ttt into item 6 of tNewLine > ... > This avoids the scientific notation, what the hell is going on here? > Any hints welcome. > > > Best > > Klaus > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > https://www.major-k.de/bass > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From klaus at major-k.de Fri Sep 9 06:40:12 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 12:40:12 +0200 Subject: LC converts phone number to scientific notation In-Reply-To: References: <74920219-28CD-46EA-825A-61AB3EC0006F@major-k.de> Message-ID: Hi Panos, > Am 09.09.2022 um 12:27 schrieb panagiotis m via use-livecode : > > Hello Klaus, > > I guess what happens here is that if you fetch item X of line Y and use it > directly, LC treats it as a number and displays it in scientific notation. obviously! > On the contrary, if you first put item X of line Y into a variable, then > the variable is treated as text, so it is not converted. Yo, that's why my workaround erm. works. :-) Thank you for the explanation! > Kind regards, > Panos > -- > > On Fri, 9 Sept 2022 at 13:01, Klaus major-k via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Hi friends, >> >> I have a very strange problem, but also found a workaround for it. >> >> I first convert an 8 MB CSV file with 60000 lines to TAB delimited data, >> then I parse the file >> and just extract some columns from the 60000 lines to display in a field. >> E.g. the column "number dialled", which contains phone number like >> -> 447973100123 >> >> The CSV files are definitively correct but I found that in the resulting >> field some of these numbers >> appear in scientific notation >> -> 4.47888E+11 >> >> This does not happen with phone numbers with a leading ZERO: like >> -> 07557162491 >> So maybe this a small hint? >> >> However I do not even touch these items I just use: >> ... >> put item 9 of tLine into item 6 of tNewLine >> ## tLine is the line from the CSV and tNewLine is for the data in the >> display field. >> ... >> >> My simple workaround, no idea why, but it obviously works: >> ... >> put item 9 of tLine into ttt >> put ttt into item 6 of tNewLine >> ... >> This avoids the scientific notation, what the hell is going on here? >> Any hints welcome. > Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From alex at tweedly.net Fri Sep 9 09:18:13 2022 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 14:18:13 +0100 Subject: LC converts phone number to scientific notation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <27688A00-CE47-4BEF-AD74-508D26423EA8@tweedly.net> How about Put (“” & item 9 of globe) onto item 6 of tnewline Alex Sent from my iPhone > On 9 Sep 2022, at 11:40, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Panos, > >> Am 09.09.2022 um 12:27 schrieb panagiotis m via use-livecode : >> >> Hello Klaus, >> >> I guess what happens here is that if you fetch item X of line Y and use it >> directly, LC treats it as a number and displays it in scientific notation. > > obviously! > >> On the contrary, if you first put item X of line Y into a variable, then >> the variable is treated as text, so it is not converted. > > Yo, that's why my workaround erm. works. :-) > Thank you for the explanation! > >> Kind regards, >> Panos >> -- >> >>> On Fri, 9 Sept 2022 at 13:01, Klaus major-k via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>> Hi friends, >>> >>> I have a very strange problem, but also found a workaround for it. >>> >>> I first convert an 8 MB CSV file with 60000 lines to TAB delimited data, >>> then I parse the file >>> and just extract some columns from the 60000 lines to display in a field. >>> E.g. the column "number dialled", which contains phone number like >>> -> 447973100123 >>> >>> The CSV files are definitively correct but I found that in the resulting >>> field some of these numbers >>> appear in scientific notation >>> -> 4.47888E+11 >>> >>> This does not happen with phone numbers with a leading ZERO: like >>> -> 07557162491 >>> So maybe this a small hint? >>> >>> However I do not even touch these items I just use: >>> ... >>> put item 9 of tLine into item 6 of tNewLine >>> ## tLine is the line from the CSV and tNewLine is for the data in the >>> display field. >>> ... >>> >>> My simple workaround, no idea why, but it obviously works: >>> ... >>> put item 9 of tLine into ttt >>> put ttt into item 6 of tNewLine >>> ... >>> This avoids the scientific notation, what the hell is going on here? >>> Any hints welcome. >> > > Best > > Klaus > > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > https://www.major-k.de/bass > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From klaus at major-k.de Fri Sep 9 09:32:39 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 15:32:39 +0200 Subject: LC converts phone number to scientific notation In-Reply-To: <27688A00-CE47-4BEF-AD74-508D26423EA8@tweedly.net> References: <27688A00-CE47-4BEF-AD74-508D26423EA8@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <95A51D94-E599-4026-AC26-7D37C729487A@major-k.de> Hi Alex, > Am 09.09.2022 um 15:18 schrieb Alex Tweedly via use-livecode : > > How about > > Put (“” & item 9 of globe) onto item 6 of tnewline or this way. :-) > Alex > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 9 Sep 2022, at 11:40, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Hi Panos, >> >>> Am 09.09.2022 um 12:27 schrieb panagiotis m via use-livecode : >>> >>> Hello Klaus, >>> >>> I guess what happens here is that if you fetch item X of line Y and use it >>> directly, LC treats it as a number and displays it in scientific notation. >> >> obviously! >> >>> On the contrary, if you first put item X of line Y into a variable, then >>> the variable is treated as text, so it is not converted. >> >> Yo, that's why my workaround erm. works. :-) >> Thank you for the explanation! >> >>> Kind regards, >>> Panos Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri Sep 9 09:39:04 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 09:39:04 -0400 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <005a01d8c226$e8596c70$b90c4550$@net> <327C82F3-CA0F-4108-8F46-1372C69F0691@milby7.com> Message-ID: Throwing NavRAD into my extensions folder doesn't seem to install it. I wonder why. On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:19 PM Mike Kerner wrote: > by the way, isn't it crazy how much overhead is required with lcb widgets? > there is so...much...stuff you have to put on top just to get to the heart > of the thing. > and i'm never going to like the way lc embeds the comments in the source > of anything. > or the way they spell "favourites", or pronounce "Aluminum". Do you see an > extra "i" in there? No? It's invisible, that's why. > > On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:00 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> I think the user is going to need to code the width adjustment in the >> resizeStack handler. Widgets can’t change their rect on their own. It has >> to happen from the LCS side. >> >> Brian Milby >> brian at milby7.com >> >> > On Sep 6, 2022, at 3:29 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> > >> > Mike, >> > >> > For future reference the source is in the .lce file. The .lce is in zip >> format. Temporarily change the extension to .zip. You will see the lcb file >> in there. Also when you install it the source will be in the extension >> folder. But since I posted .lce I have put in comments starting with "RAD >> Change" to show where I have made changes. Here is the link to the updated >> source==>https://www.dropbox.com/s/bv930usovpruo5e/navrad.lcb?dl=0 >> > >> > Thanks for taking a look! >> > >> > Also I found that after I updated the docs that the docs are generated >> from the lcb file. I re-built the widget and boom my doc changes were >> destroyed. No problem I just had redo the docs for my changes in the lcb >> file. So many unknowns. I am trying to find a way to resize it to the card >> width with a user setting for height percent of card width. But the docs >> are so scant and confusing I feel the giant headache coming on again. >> > >> > >> > Ralph DiMola >> > IT Director >> > Evergreen Information Services >> > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On >> Behalf Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode >> > Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2022 3:00 PM >> > To: How to use LiveCode >> > Cc: Mike Kerner >> > Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual >> > >> > Ralph, >> > got the source, somewhere? i'd like to learn from it. >> > testing to begin...now. >> > >> >> On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 1:32 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> I took a major stab at LCB and created a new widget based on the >> >> navbar widget. I have made 2 changes to the navbar and call it navrad. >> >> It does not modify the stock navbar. With almost no docs it was a >> >> challenge. There were so many unknowns I got a few giant headaches. It >> >> adds 4 new properties(iconFill,autoRADHilite,preHilitedItem, >> >> preHilitedItemName) and 1 new message(preHiliteChanged). I updated the >> >> documentation so the new properties and message show in the dictionary >> >> with example(search for "navrad" or just "rad"). >> >> One thing I ran into was that I had to call the "autohilite" property >> >> autoRADHilite because using any existing property causes a confilict >> >> that I could not get around without sufficient docs. It does show in >> >> the property inspector as "auto hilite". These changes allow >> >> 1)enlarge/center the icon if there is no label 2)intercept a selection >> >> before it is hilited and make a choice to hilite and send the stock >> >> hiliteChanged message (or not). Why no label? For one social media >> icons don’t need labels. Why a pre message? >> >> Someone suggested it and I thought it was a great idea. Backwards >> >> compatible with existing navbar LCS code. The was an auto sizing to >> >> card width request. I will look to see if I can do it without more >> docs(or help). >> >> >> >> If anyone would like to try it and find any bugs it's at ==> >> >> https://www.dropbox.com/s/51zm4m8dip49jov/com.livecode.widget.navrad.2 >> >> .0.0.lce?dl=0 >> >> >> >> >> >> Ralph DiMola >> >> IT Director >> >> Evergreen Information Services >> >> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> use-livecode mailing list >> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> >> subscription preferences: >> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> > >> > >> > -- >> > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second >> day, God created the oceans. >> > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> > and did a little diving. >> > And God said, "This is good." >> > _______________________________________________ >> > use-livecode mailing list >> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > use-livecode mailing list >> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From brian at milby7.com Fri Sep 9 09:54:29 2022 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 09:54:29 -0400 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <792CBF1B-E772-45CD-9137-B12837C2E320@milby7.com> You have to use the IDE to install widgets. Tools… Extension Manager… + (icon, top right) Brian Milby brian at milby7.com > On Sep 9, 2022, at 9:40 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > Throwing NavRAD into my extensions folder doesn't seem to install it. I > wonder why. > >> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:19 PM Mike Kerner >> wrote: >> >> by the way, isn't it crazy how much overhead is required with lcb widgets? >> there is so...much...stuff you have to put on top just to get to the heart >> of the thing. >> and i'm never going to like the way lc embeds the comments in the source >> of anything. >> or the way they spell "favourites", or pronounce "Aluminum". Do you see an >> extra "i" in there? No? It's invisible, that's why. >> >> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:00 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>> I think the user is going to need to code the width adjustment in the >>> resizeStack handler. Widgets can’t change their rect on their own. It has >>> to happen from the LCS side. >>> >>> Brian Milby >>> brian at milby7.com >>> >>>> On Sep 6, 2022, at 3:29 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Mike, >>>> >>>> For future reference the source is in the .lce file. The .lce is in zip >>> format. Temporarily change the extension to .zip. You will see the lcb file >>> in there. Also when you install it the source will be in the extension >>> folder. But since I posted .lce I have put in comments starting with "RAD >>> Change" to show where I have made changes. Here is the link to the updated >>> source==>https://www.dropbox.com/s/bv930usovpruo5e/navrad.lcb?dl=0 >>>> >>>> Thanks for taking a look! >>>> >>>> Also I found that after I updated the docs that the docs are generated >>> from the lcb file. I re-built the widget and boom my doc changes were >>> destroyed. No problem I just had redo the docs for my changes in the lcb >>> file. So many unknowns. I am trying to find a way to resize it to the card >>> width with a user setting for height percent of card width. But the docs >>> are so scant and confusing I feel the giant headache coming on again. >>>> >>>> >>>> Ralph DiMola >>>> IT Director >>>> Evergreen Information Services >>>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On >>> Behalf Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode >>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2022 3:00 PM >>>> To: How to use LiveCode >>>> Cc: Mike Kerner >>>> Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual >>>> >>>> Ralph, >>>> got the source, somewhere? i'd like to learn from it. >>>> testing to begin...now. >>>> >>>>> On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 1:32 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I took a major stab at LCB and created a new widget based on the >>>>> navbar widget. I have made 2 changes to the navbar and call it navrad. >>>>> It does not modify the stock navbar. With almost no docs it was a >>>>> challenge. There were so many unknowns I got a few giant headaches. It >>>>> adds 4 new properties(iconFill,autoRADHilite,preHilitedItem, >>>>> preHilitedItemName) and 1 new message(preHiliteChanged). I updated the >>>>> documentation so the new properties and message show in the dictionary >>>>> with example(search for "navrad" or just "rad"). >>>>> One thing I ran into was that I had to call the "autohilite" property >>>>> autoRADHilite because using any existing property causes a confilict >>>>> that I could not get around without sufficient docs. It does show in >>>>> the property inspector as "auto hilite". These changes allow >>>>> 1)enlarge/center the icon if there is no label 2)intercept a selection >>>>> before it is hilited and make a choice to hilite and send the stock >>>>> hiliteChanged message (or not). Why no label? For one social media >>> icons don’t need labels. Why a pre message? >>>>> Someone suggested it and I thought it was a great idea. Backwards >>>>> compatible with existing navbar LCS code. The was an auto sizing to >>>>> card width request. I will look to see if I can do it without more >>> docs(or help). >>>>> >>>>> If anyone would like to try it and find any bugs it's at ==> >>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/51zm4m8dip49jov/com.livecode.widget.navrad.2 >>>>> .0.0.lce?dl=0 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Ralph DiMola >>>>> IT Director >>>>> Evergreen Information Services >>>>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second >>> day, God created the oceans. >>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >>>> and did a little diving. >>>> And God said, "This is good." >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> >> -- >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >> On the second day, God created the oceans. >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> and did a little diving. >> And God said, "This is good." >> > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Fri Sep 9 10:32:13 2022 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 10:32:13 -0400 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: <792CBF1B-E772-45CD-9137-B12837C2E320@milby7.com> References: <792CBF1B-E772-45CD-9137-B12837C2E320@milby7.com> Message-ID: <001601d8c458$f6ebe310$e4c3a930$@net> Yes, And after the install you will the widget folder in your "My LiveCode"==>Extensions folder. It will appear the the tool palette and in the inclusions pane of the standalone settings. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Brian Milby via use-livecode Sent: Friday, September 09, 2022 9:54 AM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Brian Milby Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual You have to use the IDE to install widgets. Tools… Extension Manager… + (icon, top right) Brian Milby brian at milby7.com > On Sep 9, 2022, at 9:40 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > Throwing NavRAD into my extensions folder doesn't seem to install it. > I wonder why. > >> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:19 PM Mike Kerner >> >> wrote: >> >> by the way, isn't it crazy how much overhead is required with lcb widgets? >> there is so...much...stuff you have to put on top just to get to the >> heart of the thing. >> and i'm never going to like the way lc embeds the comments in the >> source of anything. >> or the way they spell "favourites", or pronounce "Aluminum". Do you >> see an extra "i" in there? No? It's invisible, that's why. >> >> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:00 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>> I think the user is going to need to code the width adjustment in >>> the resizeStack handler. Widgets can’t change their rect on their >>> own. It has to happen from the LCS side. >>> >>> Brian Milby >>> brian at milby7.com >>> >>>> On Sep 6, 2022, at 3:29 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Mike, >>>> >>>> For future reference the source is in the .lce file. The .lce is in >>>> zip >>> format. Temporarily change the extension to .zip. You will see the >>> lcb file in there. Also when you install it the source will be in >>> the extension folder. But since I posted .lce I have put in comments >>> starting with "RAD Change" to show where I have made changes. Here >>> is the link to the updated >>> source==>https://www.dropbox.com/s/bv930usovpruo5e/navrad.lcb?dl=0 >>>> >>>> Thanks for taking a look! >>>> >>>> Also I found that after I updated the docs that the docs are >>>> generated >>> from the lcb file. I re-built the widget and boom my doc changes >>> were destroyed. No problem I just had redo the docs for my changes >>> in the lcb file. So many unknowns. I am trying to find a way to >>> resize it to the card width with a user setting for height percent >>> of card width. But the docs are so scant and confusing I feel the giant headache coming on again. >>>> >>>> >>>> Ralph DiMola >>>> IT Director >>>> Evergreen Information Services >>>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] >>>> On >>> Behalf Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode >>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2022 3:00 PM >>>> To: How to use LiveCode >>>> Cc: Mike Kerner >>>> Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual >>>> >>>> Ralph, >>>> got the source, somewhere? i'd like to learn from it. >>>> testing to begin...now. >>>> >>>>> On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 1:32 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I took a major stab at LCB and created a new widget based on the >>>>> navbar widget. I have made 2 changes to the navbar and call it navrad. >>>>> It does not modify the stock navbar. With almost no docs it was a >>>>> challenge. There were so many unknowns I got a few giant >>>>> headaches. It adds 4 new >>>>> properties(iconFill,autoRADHilite,preHilitedItem, >>>>> preHilitedItemName) and 1 new message(preHiliteChanged). I updated >>>>> the documentation so the new properties and message show in the >>>>> dictionary with example(search for "navrad" or just "rad"). >>>>> One thing I ran into was that I had to call the "autohilite" >>>>> property autoRADHilite because using any existing property causes >>>>> a confilict that I could not get around without sufficient docs. >>>>> It does show in the property inspector as "auto hilite". These >>>>> changes allow 1)enlarge/center the icon if there is no label >>>>> 2)intercept a selection before it is hilited and make a choice to >>>>> hilite and send the stock hiliteChanged message (or not). Why no >>>>> label? For one social media >>> icons don’t need labels. Why a pre message? >>>>> Someone suggested it and I thought it was a great idea. Backwards >>>>> compatible with existing navbar LCS code. The was an auto sizing >>>>> to card width request. I will look to see if I can do it without >>>>> more >>> docs(or help). >>>>> >>>>> If anyone would like to try it and find any bugs it's at ==> >>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/51zm4m8dip49jov/com.livecode.widget.navr >>>>> ad.2 >>>>> .0.0.lce?dl=0 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Ralph DiMola >>>>> IT Director >>>>> Evergreen Information Services >>>>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the >>>> second >>> day, God created the oceans. >>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and >>>> did a little diving. >>>> And God said, "This is good." >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> >> -- >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second >> day, God created the oceans. >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> and did a little diving. >> And God said, "This is good." >> > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second > day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 9 11:38:08 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 15:38:08 +0000 Subject: LC converts phone number to scientific notation In-Reply-To: <74920219-28CD-46EA-825A-61AB3EC0006F@major-k.de> References: <74920219-28CD-46EA-825A-61AB3EC0006F@major-k.de> Message-ID: I have a function called formatPhone() I can modify it to support international notation and send it to you. Are all country codes 2 digits? And why would a phone number have a leading 0? Bob S > On Sep 9, 2022, at 03:00 , Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi friends, > > I have a very strange problem, but also found a workaround for it. > > I first convert an 8 MB CSV file with 60000 lines to TAB delimited data, then I parse the file > and just extract some columns from the 60000 lines to display in a field. > E.g. the column "number dialled", which contains phone number like > -> 447973100123 > > The CSV files are definitively correct but I found that in the resulting field some of these numbers > appear in scientific notation > -> 4.47888E+11 > > This does not happen with phone numbers with a leading ZERO: like > -> 07557162491 > So maybe this a small hint? > > However I do not even touch these items I just use: > ... > put item 9 of tLine into item 6 of tNewLine > ## tLine is the line from the CSV and tNewLine is for the data in the display field. > ... > > My simple workaround, no idea why, but it obviously works: > ... > put item 9 of tLine into ttt > put ttt into item 6 of tNewLine > ... > This avoids the scientific notation, what the hell is going on here? > Any hints welcome. > > > Best > > Klaus > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > https://www.major-k.de/bass > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 9 11:39:41 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 15:39:41 +0000 Subject: LC converts phone number to scientific notation In-Reply-To: <95A51D94-E599-4026-AC26-7D37C729487A@major-k.de> References: <27688A00-CE47-4BEF-AD74-508D26423EA8@tweedly.net> <95A51D94-E599-4026-AC26-7D37C729487A@major-k.de> Message-ID: <5A3E8B94-0B38-4CFE-A9E5-643FA84B80D9@iotecdigital.com> Someone needs to debug their emails. ;-) Bob S On Sep 9, 2022, at 06:32 , Klaus major-k via use-livecode > wrote: Put (“” & item 9 of globe) onto item 6 of tnewline From klaus at major-k.de Fri Sep 9 11:51:21 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 17:51:21 +0200 Subject: LC converts phone number to scientific notation In-Reply-To: References: <74920219-28CD-46EA-825A-61AB3EC0006F@major-k.de> Message-ID: <30B13EE7-EBAA-4985-8AE3-E17F1632535A@major-k.de> Hi Bob, > Am 09.09.2022 um 17:38 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode : > > I have a function called formatPhone() I can modify it to support international notation and send it to you. thank you, will then store it for future use. > Are all country codes 2 digits? And why would a phone number have a leading 0? I don't have the slightest idea, I am just processing the CSV files, wherever they come from and whatever they may contain... 8-) > Bob S Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 9 12:45:32 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 16:45:32 +0000 Subject: LC converts phone number to scientific notation In-Reply-To: <30B13EE7-EBAA-4985-8AE3-E17F1632535A@major-k.de> References: <74920219-28CD-46EA-825A-61AB3EC0006F@major-k.de> <30B13EE7-EBAA-4985-8AE3-E17F1632535A@major-k.de> Message-ID: <62F6914F-0AAD-4960-BD0E-08CDE2D0E7AA@iotecdigital.com> OK As it turns out, it is nearly impossible to format a series of digits to an international format, separating the different parts by delimiters like - and (). Refer to web link for details. https://www.tipard.com/mobile/international-phone-number-format.html In short, the country code can be 1 to 3 digits, the dial out code *should* be 00 but some countries don't comply with the standard, and use a different code, which can be 2 to 3 digits, etc. To internationalize formatPhone() I would need a database of each country and how they format their phone numbers, and boo on that idea. Here is my formatPhone() code as it stands for US and Canada. (I think it is included in the Master Library as well.) If the phone number is not not 7 or 10 digits after extracting the extension, then it returns the original value. FUNCTION formatPhone thePhoneNumber, theFormat -- text -- mid IF theFormat is empty THEN put "classic" into theFormat END IF IF thePhoneNumber is empty THEN return thePhoneNumber END IF if "ext" is in thePhoneNumber then put offset("ext", thePhoneNumber) into tChar put char tChar to -1 of thePhoneNumber into theExtension put char 1 to tChar -1 of thePhoneNumber into thePhoneNumber else if "x" is in thePhoneNumber then put offset("x", thePhoneNumber) into tChar put char tChar to -1 of thePhoneNumber into theExtension put char 1 to tChar -1 of thePhoneNumber into thePhoneNumber end if REPEAT WITH i = 1 to the number of chars of thePhoneNumber IF char i of thePhoneNumber is a number THEN put char i of thePhoneNumber AFTER theNewValue END IF END REPEAT put the length of theNewValue into theLength IF theLength is not among the items of "7,10" THEN return thePhoneNumber && theExtension exit formatPhone END IF put "-" BEFORE char -4 of theNewValue IF theLength is 10 THEN IF theFormat is "classic" THEN put ") " AFTER char 3 of theNewValue put "(" BEFORE theNewValue ELSE put "-" AFTER char 3 of theNewValue END IF END IF IF theExtension is not empty THEN put " " & theExtension AFTER theNewValue return theNewValue END formatPhone Bob S On Sep 9, 2022, at 08:51 , Klaus major-k via use-livecode > wrote: Hi Bob, Am 09.09.2022 um 17:38 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode >: I have a function called formatPhone() I can modify it to support international notation and send it to you. thank you, will then store it for future use. From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri Sep 9 13:03:51 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 13:03:51 -0400 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: <001601d8c458$f6ebe310$e4c3a930$@net> References: <792CBF1B-E772-45CD-9137-B12837C2E320@milby7.com> <001601d8c458$f6ebe310$e4c3a930$@net> Message-ID: Weird. I thought you could just toss it in the extensions folder. On Fri, Sep 9, 2022 at 10:33 AM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Yes, And after the install you will the widget folder in your "My > LiveCode"==>Extensions folder. It will appear the the tool palette and in > the inclusions pane of the standalone settings. > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On > Behalf Of Brian Milby via use-livecode > Sent: Friday, September 09, 2022 9:54 AM > To: How to use LiveCode > Cc: Brian Milby > Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual > > You have to use the IDE to install widgets. > Tools… Extension Manager… + (icon, top right) > > Brian Milby > brian at milby7.com > > > On Sep 9, 2022, at 9:40 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > Throwing NavRAD into my extensions folder doesn't seem to install it. > > I wonder why. > > > >> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:19 PM Mike Kerner > >> > >> wrote: > >> > >> by the way, isn't it crazy how much overhead is required with lcb > widgets? > >> there is so...much...stuff you have to put on top just to get to the > >> heart of the thing. > >> and i'm never going to like the way lc embeds the comments in the > >> source of anything. > >> or the way they spell "favourites", or pronounce "Aluminum". Do you > >> see an extra "i" in there? No? It's invisible, that's why. > >> > >> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:00 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode < > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> > >>> I think the user is going to need to code the width adjustment in > >>> the resizeStack handler. Widgets can’t change their rect on their > >>> own. It has to happen from the LCS side. > >>> > >>> Brian Milby > >>> brian at milby7.com > >>> > >>>> On Sep 6, 2022, at 3:29 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Mike, > >>>> > >>>> For future reference the source is in the .lce file. The .lce is in > >>>> zip > >>> format. Temporarily change the extension to .zip. You will see the > >>> lcb file in there. Also when you install it the source will be in > >>> the extension folder. But since I posted .lce I have put in comments > >>> starting with "RAD Change" to show where I have made changes. Here > >>> is the link to the updated > >>> source==>https://www.dropbox.com/s/bv930usovpruo5e/navrad.lcb?dl=0 > >>>> > >>>> Thanks for taking a look! > >>>> > >>>> Also I found that after I updated the docs that the docs are > >>>> generated > >>> from the lcb file. I re-built the widget and boom my doc changes > >>> were destroyed. No problem I just had redo the docs for my changes > >>> in the lcb file. So many unknowns. I am trying to find a way to > >>> resize it to the card width with a user setting for height percent > >>> of card width. But the docs are so scant and confusing I feel the > giant headache coming on again. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Ralph DiMola > >>>> IT Director > >>>> Evergreen Information Services > >>>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > >>>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] > >>>> On > >>> Behalf Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode > >>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2022 3:00 PM > >>>> To: How to use LiveCode > >>>> Cc: Mike Kerner > >>>> Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual > >>>> > >>>> Ralph, > >>>> got the source, somewhere? i'd like to learn from it. > >>>> testing to begin...now. > >>>> > >>>>> On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 1:32 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> I took a major stab at LCB and created a new widget based on the > >>>>> navbar widget. I have made 2 changes to the navbar and call it > navrad. > >>>>> It does not modify the stock navbar. With almost no docs it was a > >>>>> challenge. There were so many unknowns I got a few giant > >>>>> headaches. It adds 4 new > >>>>> properties(iconFill,autoRADHilite,preHilitedItem, > >>>>> preHilitedItemName) and 1 new message(preHiliteChanged). I updated > >>>>> the documentation so the new properties and message show in the > >>>>> dictionary with example(search for "navrad" or just "rad"). > >>>>> One thing I ran into was that I had to call the "autohilite" > >>>>> property autoRADHilite because using any existing property causes > >>>>> a confilict that I could not get around without sufficient docs. > >>>>> It does show in the property inspector as "auto hilite". These > >>>>> changes allow 1)enlarge/center the icon if there is no label > >>>>> 2)intercept a selection before it is hilited and make a choice to > >>>>> hilite and send the stock hiliteChanged message (or not). Why no > >>>>> label? For one social media > >>> icons don’t need labels. Why a pre message? > >>>>> Someone suggested it and I thought it was a great idea. Backwards > >>>>> compatible with existing navbar LCS code. The was an auto sizing > >>>>> to card width request. I will look to see if I can do it without > >>>>> more > >>> docs(or help). > >>>>> > >>>>> If anyone would like to try it and find any bugs it's at ==> > >>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/51zm4m8dip49jov/com.livecode.widget.navr > >>>>> ad.2 > >>>>> .0.0.lce?dl=0 > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Ralph DiMola > >>>>> IT Director > >>>>> Evergreen Information Services > >>>>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> use-livecode mailing list > >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>>>> subscription preferences: > >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the > >>>> second > >>> day, God created the oceans. > >>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and > >>>> did a little diving. > >>>> And God said, "This is good." > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> use-livecode mailing list > >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>> subscription preferences: > >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> use-livecode mailing list > >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>> subscription preferences: > >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> use-livecode mailing list > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>> subscription preferences: > >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second > >> day, God created the oceans. > >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > >> and did a little diving. > >> And God said, "This is good." > >> > > > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second > > day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Sep 9 13:43:07 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2022 12:43:07 -0500 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <792CBF1B-E772-45CD-9137-B12837C2E320@milby7.com> <001601d8c458$f6ebe310$e4c3a930$@net> Message-ID: <18323591ff8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> It needs to install the dictionary entry and the extension itself, and put the reference into the tools palette. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On September 9, 2022 12:06:29 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > Weird. I thought you could just toss it in the extensions folder. > > On Fri, Sep 9, 2022 at 10:33 AM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Yes, And after the install you will the widget folder in your "My >> LiveCode"==>Extensions folder. It will appear the the tool palette and in >> the inclusions pane of the standalone settings. >> >> Ralph DiMola >> IT Director >> Evergreen Information Services >> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On >> Behalf Of Brian Milby via use-livecode >> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2022 9:54 AM >> To: How to use LiveCode >> Cc: Brian Milby >> Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual >> >> You have to use the IDE to install widgets. >> Tools Extension Manager + (icon, top right) >> >> Brian Milby >> brian at milby7.com >> >> > On Sep 9, 2022, at 9:40 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> > >> > Throwing NavRAD into my extensions folder doesn't seem to install it. >> > I wonder why. >> > >> >> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:19 PM Mike Kerner >> >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> by the way, isn't it crazy how much overhead is required with lcb >> widgets? >> >> there is so...much...stuff you have to put on top just to get to the >> >> heart of the thing. >> >> and i'm never going to like the way lc embeds the comments in the >> >> source of anything. >> >> or the way they spell "favourites", or pronounce "Aluminum". Do you >> >> see an extra "i" in there? No? It's invisible, that's why. >> >> >> >> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:00 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode < >> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >> >> >>> I think the user is going to need to code the width adjustment in >> >>> the resizeStack handler. Widgets cant change their rect on their >> >>> own. It has to happen from the LCS side. >> >>> >> >>> Brian Milby >> >>> brian at milby7.com >> >>> >> >>>> On Sep 6, 2022, at 3:29 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < >> >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>> Mike, >> >>>> >> >>>> For future reference the source is in the .lce file. The .lce is in >> >>>> zip >> >>> format. Temporarily change the extension to .zip. You will see the >> >>> lcb file in there. Also when you install it the source will be in >> >>> the extension folder. But since I posted .lce I have put in comments >> >>> starting with "RAD Change" to show where I have made changes. Here >> >>> is the link to the updated >> >>> source==>https://www.dropbox.com/s/bv930usovpruo5e/navrad.lcb?dl=0 >> >>>> >> >>>> Thanks for taking a look! >> >>>> >> >>>> Also I found that after I updated the docs that the docs are >> >>>> generated >> >>> from the lcb file. I re-built the widget and boom my doc changes >> >>> were destroyed. No problem I just had redo the docs for my changes >> >>> in the lcb file. So many unknowns. I am trying to find a way to >> >>> resize it to the card width with a user setting for height percent >> >>> of card width. But the docs are so scant and confusing I feel the >> giant headache coming on again. >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> Ralph DiMola >> >>>> IT Director >> >>>> Evergreen Information Services >> >>>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >> >>>> >> >>>> -----Original Message----- >> >>>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] >> >>>> On >> >>> Behalf Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode >> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2022 3:00 PM >> >>>> To: How to use LiveCode >> >>>> Cc: Mike Kerner >> >>>> Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual >> >>>> >> >>>> Ralph, >> >>>> got the source, somewhere? i'd like to learn from it. >> >>>> testing to begin...now. >> >>>> >> >>>>> On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 1:32 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < >> >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>>> I took a major stab at LCB and created a new widget based on the >> >>>>> navbar widget. I have made 2 changes to the navbar and call it >> navrad. >> >>>>> It does not modify the stock navbar. With almost no docs it was a >> >>>>> challenge. There were so many unknowns I got a few giant >> >>>>> headaches. It adds 4 new >> >>>>> properties(iconFill,autoRADHilite,preHilitedItem, >> >>>>> preHilitedItemName) and 1 new message(preHiliteChanged). I updated >> >>>>> the documentation so the new properties and message show in the >> >>>>> dictionary with example(search for "navrad" or just "rad"). >> >>>>> One thing I ran into was that I had to call the "autohilite" >> >>>>> property autoRADHilite because using any existing property causes >> >>>>> a confilict that I could not get around without sufficient docs. >> >>>>> It does show in the property inspector as "auto hilite". These >> >>>>> changes allow 1)enlarge/center the icon if there is no label >> >>>>> 2)intercept a selection before it is hilited and make a choice to >> >>>>> hilite and send the stock hiliteChanged message (or not). Why no >> >>>>> label? For one social media >> >>> icons dont need labels. Why a pre message? >> >>>>> Someone suggested it and I thought it was a great idea. Backwards >> >>>>> compatible with existing navbar LCS code. The was an auto sizing >> >>>>> to card width request. I will look to see if I can do it without >> >>>>> more >> >>> docs(or help). >> >>>>> >> >>>>> If anyone would like to try it and find any bugs it's at ==> >> >>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/51zm4m8dip49jov/com.livecode.widget.navr >> >>>>> ad.2 >> >>>>> .0.0.lce?dl=0 >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Ralph DiMola >> >>>>> IT Director >> >>>>> Evergreen Information Services >> >>>>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >> >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> >>>>> subscription preferences: >> >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> -- >> >>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the >> >>>> second >> >>> day, God created the oceans. >> >>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and >> >>>> did a little diving. >> >>>> And God said, "This is good." >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> use-livecode mailing list >> >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> >>> subscription preferences: >> >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> use-livecode mailing list >> >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> >>> subscription preferences: >> >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> use-livecode mailing list >> >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> >>> subscription preferences: >> >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second >> >> day, God created the oceans. >> >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> >> and did a little diving. >> >> And God said, "This is good." >> >> >> > >> > >> > -- >> > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second >> > day, God created the oceans. >> > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> > and did a little diving. >> > And God said, "This is good." >> > _______________________________________________ >> > use-livecode mailing list >> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Fri Sep 9 13:46:37 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 19:46:37 +0200 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6AF5BE8C-DC3F-4EA9-8490-BA6DDDD7DD7E@m-r-d.de> If you would extract the .lce file, then you could copy the extracted folder to the extension folder. Von meinem iPhone gesendet > Am 09.09.2022 um 19:05 schrieb Mike Kerner via use-livecode : > > Weird. I thought you could just toss it in the extensions folder. > >> On Fri, Sep 9, 2022 at 10:33 AM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >> Yes, And after the install you will the widget folder in your "My >> LiveCode"==>Extensions folder. It will appear the the tool palette and in >> the inclusions pane of the standalone settings. >> >> Ralph DiMola >> IT Director >> Evergreen Information Services >> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On >> Behalf Of Brian Milby via use-livecode >> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2022 9:54 AM >> To: How to use LiveCode >> Cc: Brian Milby >> Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual >> >> You have to use the IDE to install widgets. >> Tools… Extension Manager… + (icon, top right) >> >> Brian Milby >> brian at milby7.com >> >>> On Sep 9, 2022, at 9:40 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>> Throwing NavRAD into my extensions folder doesn't seem to install it. >>> I wonder why. >>> >>>> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:19 PM Mike Kerner >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> by the way, isn't it crazy how much overhead is required with lcb >> widgets? >>>> there is so...much...stuff you have to put on top just to get to the >>>> heart of the thing. >>>> and i'm never going to like the way lc embeds the comments in the >>>> source of anything. >>>> or the way they spell "favourites", or pronounce "Aluminum". Do you >>>> see an extra "i" in there? No? It's invisible, that's why. >>>> >>>> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:00 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode < >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I think the user is going to need to code the width adjustment in >>>>> the resizeStack handler. Widgets can’t change their rect on their >>>>> own. It has to happen from the LCS side. >>>>> >>>>> Brian Milby >>>>> brian at milby7.com >>>>> >>>>>> On Sep 6, 2022, at 3:29 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Mike, >>>>>> >>>>>> For future reference the source is in the .lce file. The .lce is in >>>>>> zip >>>>> format. Temporarily change the extension to .zip. You will see the >>>>> lcb file in there. Also when you install it the source will be in >>>>> the extension folder. But since I posted .lce I have put in comments >>>>> starting with "RAD Change" to show where I have made changes. Here >>>>> is the link to the updated >>>>> source==>https://www.dropbox.com/s/bv930usovpruo5e/navrad.lcb?dl=0 >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for taking a look! >>>>>> >>>>>> Also I found that after I updated the docs that the docs are >>>>>> generated >>>>> from the lcb file. I re-built the widget and boom my doc changes >>>>> were destroyed. No problem I just had redo the docs for my changes >>>>> in the lcb file. So many unknowns. I am trying to find a way to >>>>> resize it to the card width with a user setting for height percent >>>>> of card width. But the docs are so scant and confusing I feel the >> giant headache coming on again. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Ralph DiMola >>>>>> IT Director >>>>>> Evergreen Information Services >>>>>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] >>>>>> On >>>>> Behalf Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2022 3:00 PM >>>>>> To: How to use LiveCode >>>>>> Cc: Mike Kerner >>>>>> Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual >>>>>> >>>>>> Ralph, >>>>>> got the source, somewhere? i'd like to learn from it. >>>>>> testing to begin...now. >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 1:32 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I took a major stab at LCB and created a new widget based on the >>>>>>> navbar widget. I have made 2 changes to the navbar and call it >> navrad. >>>>>>> It does not modify the stock navbar. With almost no docs it was a >>>>>>> challenge. There were so many unknowns I got a few giant >>>>>>> headaches. It adds 4 new >>>>>>> properties(iconFill,autoRADHilite,preHilitedItem, >>>>>>> preHilitedItemName) and 1 new message(preHiliteChanged). I updated >>>>>>> the documentation so the new properties and message show in the >>>>>>> dictionary with example(search for "navrad" or just "rad"). >>>>>>> One thing I ran into was that I had to call the "autohilite" >>>>>>> property autoRADHilite because using any existing property causes >>>>>>> a confilict that I could not get around without sufficient docs. >>>>>>> It does show in the property inspector as "auto hilite". These >>>>>>> changes allow 1)enlarge/center the icon if there is no label >>>>>>> 2)intercept a selection before it is hilited and make a choice to >>>>>>> hilite and send the stock hiliteChanged message (or not). Why no >>>>>>> label? For one social media >>>>> icons don’t need labels. Why a pre message? >>>>>>> Someone suggested it and I thought it was a great idea. Backwards >>>>>>> compatible with existing navbar LCS code. The was an auto sizing >>>>>>> to card width request. I will look to see if I can do it without >>>>>>> more >>>>> docs(or help). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If anyone would like to try it and find any bugs it's at ==> >>>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/51zm4m8dip49jov/com.livecode.widget.navr >>>>>>> ad.2 >>>>>>> .0.0.lce?dl=0 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ralph DiMola >>>>>>> IT Director >>>>>>> Evergreen Information Services >>>>>>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the >>>>>> second >>>>> day, God created the oceans. >>>>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and >>>>>> did a little diving. >>>>>> And God said, "This is good." >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second >>>> day, God created the oceans. >>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >>>> and did a little diving. >>>> And God said, "This is good." >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second >>> day, God created the oceans. >>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >>> and did a little diving. >>> And God said, "This is good." >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Fri Sep 9 14:08:59 2022 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 14:08:59 -0400 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: <6AF5BE8C-DC3F-4EA9-8490-BA6DDDD7DD7E@m-r-d.de> References: <6AF5BE8C-DC3F-4EA9-8490-BA6DDDD7DD7E@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <002d01d8c477$3f7e1710$be7a4530$@net> The .lce file is in zip format. Change the extension to .zip to easily examine contents. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode Sent: Friday, September 09, 2022 1:47 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Matthias Rebbe Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual If you would extract the .lce file, then you could copy the extracted folder to the extension folder. Von meinem iPhone gesendet > Am 09.09.2022 um 19:05 schrieb Mike Kerner via use-livecode : > > Weird. I thought you could just toss it in the extensions folder. > >> On Fri, Sep 9, 2022 at 10:33 AM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >> Yes, And after the install you will the widget folder in your "My >> LiveCode"==>Extensions folder. It will appear the the tool palette >> and in the inclusions pane of the standalone settings. >> >> Ralph DiMola >> IT Director >> Evergreen Information Services >> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On >> Behalf Of Brian Milby via use-livecode >> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2022 9:54 AM >> To: How to use LiveCode >> Cc: Brian Milby >> Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual >> >> You have to use the IDE to install widgets. >> Tools… Extension Manager… + (icon, top right) >> >> Brian Milby >> brian at milby7.com >> >>> On Sep 9, 2022, at 9:40 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>> Throwing NavRAD into my extensions folder doesn't seem to install it. >>> I wonder why. >>> >>>> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:19 PM Mike Kerner >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> by the way, isn't it crazy how much overhead is required with lcb >> widgets? >>>> there is so...much...stuff you have to put on top just to get to >>>> the heart of the thing. >>>> and i'm never going to like the way lc embeds the comments in the >>>> source of anything. >>>> or the way they spell "favourites", or pronounce "Aluminum". Do you >>>> see an extra "i" in there? No? It's invisible, that's why. >>>> >>>> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:00 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode < >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I think the user is going to need to code the width adjustment in >>>>> the resizeStack handler. Widgets can’t change their rect on their >>>>> own. It has to happen from the LCS side. >>>>> >>>>> Brian Milby >>>>> brian at milby7.com >>>>> >>>>>> On Sep 6, 2022, at 3:29 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Mike, >>>>>> >>>>>> For future reference the source is in the .lce file. The .lce is >>>>>> in zip >>>>> format. Temporarily change the extension to .zip. You will see the >>>>> lcb file in there. Also when you install it the source will be in >>>>> the extension folder. But since I posted .lce I have put in >>>>> comments starting with "RAD Change" to show where I have made >>>>> changes. Here is the link to the updated >>>>> source==>https://www.dropbox.com/s/bv930usovpruo5e/navrad.lcb?dl=0 >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for taking a look! >>>>>> >>>>>> Also I found that after I updated the docs that the docs are >>>>>> generated >>>>> from the lcb file. I re-built the widget and boom my doc changes >>>>> were destroyed. No problem I just had redo the docs for my changes >>>>> in the lcb file. So many unknowns. I am trying to find a way to >>>>> resize it to the card width with a user setting for height percent >>>>> of card width. But the docs are so scant and confusing I feel the >> giant headache coming on again. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Ralph DiMola >>>>>> IT Director >>>>>> Evergreen Information Services >>>>>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] >>>>>> On >>>>> Behalf Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2022 3:00 PM >>>>>> To: How to use LiveCode >>>>>> Cc: Mike Kerner >>>>>> Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual >>>>>> >>>>>> Ralph, >>>>>> got the source, somewhere? i'd like to learn from it. >>>>>> testing to begin...now. >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 1:32 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I took a major stab at LCB and created a new widget based on the >>>>>>> navbar widget. I have made 2 changes to the navbar and call it >> navrad. >>>>>>> It does not modify the stock navbar. With almost no docs it was >>>>>>> a challenge. There were so many unknowns I got a few giant >>>>>>> headaches. It adds 4 new >>>>>>> properties(iconFill,autoRADHilite,preHilitedItem, >>>>>>> preHilitedItemName) and 1 new message(preHiliteChanged). I >>>>>>> updated the documentation so the new properties and message show >>>>>>> in the dictionary with example(search for "navrad" or just "rad"). >>>>>>> One thing I ran into was that I had to call the "autohilite" >>>>>>> property autoRADHilite because using any existing property >>>>>>> causes a confilict that I could not get around without sufficient docs. >>>>>>> It does show in the property inspector as "auto hilite". These >>>>>>> changes allow 1)enlarge/center the icon if there is no label >>>>>>> 2)intercept a selection before it is hilited and make a choice >>>>>>> to hilite and send the stock hiliteChanged message (or not). Why >>>>>>> no label? For one social media >>>>> icons don’t need labels. Why a pre message? >>>>>>> Someone suggested it and I thought it was a great idea. >>>>>>> Backwards compatible with existing navbar LCS code. The was an >>>>>>> auto sizing to card width request. I will look to see if I can >>>>>>> do it without more >>>>> docs(or help). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If anyone would like to try it and find any bugs it's at ==> >>>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/51zm4m8dip49jov/com.livecode.widget.na >>>>>>> vr >>>>>>> ad.2 >>>>>>> .0.0.lce?dl=0 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ralph DiMola >>>>>>> IT Director >>>>>>> Evergreen Information Services >>>>>>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the >>>>>> second >>>>> day, God created the oceans. >>>>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >>>>>> and did a little diving. >>>>>> And God said, "This is good." >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the >>>> second day, God created the oceans. >>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and >>>> did a little diving. >>>> And God said, "This is good." >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the >>> second day, God created the oceans. >>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and >>> did a little diving. >>> And God said, "This is good." >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second > day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From alex at tweedly.net Fri Sep 9 14:41:25 2022 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 19:41:25 +0100 Subject: LC converts phone number to scientific notation In-Reply-To: <5A3E8B94-0B38-4CFE-A9E5-643FA84B80D9@iotecdigital.com> References: <27688A00-CE47-4BEF-AD74-508D26423EA8@tweedly.net> <95A51D94-E599-4026-AC26-7D37C729487A@major-k.de> <5A3E8B94-0B38-4CFE-A9E5-643FA84B80D9@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: No, I just need to learn to not type emails on my iPhone :-) I do it so rarely, I forget to be careful about autocorrect. On 09/09/2022 16:39, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > Someone needs to debug their emails. ;-) > > Bob S > > > On Sep 9, 2022, at 06:32 , Klaus major-k via use-livecode > wrote: > > Put ( & item 9 of globe) onto item 6 of tnewline > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From alex at tweedly.net Fri Sep 9 14:48:27 2022 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 19:48:27 +0100 Subject: LC converts phone number to scientific notation In-Reply-To: References: <74920219-28CD-46EA-825A-61AB3EC0006F@major-k.de> Message-ID: <57e15af1-b6b4-07f5-9b1d-db917d314b34@tweedly.net> No, not all are 2-digits.   USA is one digit, many are 3 digits, none are (yet) 4 digits. A phone number would have a leading zero in many countries; usually indicating it's a non-local number (kind of similar to the leading 1- in long distance in the US, e.g. 1-800-555-1212). In the UK, numbers are, for example, 01x1 ddd nnnn, but a local number will never begin with a 0. Alex. On 09/09/2022 16:38, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > I have a function called formatPhone() I can modify it to support international notation and send it to you. Are all country codes 2 digits? And why would a phone number have a leading 0? > > Bob S > > >> On Sep 9, 2022, at 03:00 , Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Hi friends, >> >> I have a very strange problem, but also found a workaround for it. >> >> I first convert an 8 MB CSV file with 60000 lines to TAB delimited data, then I parse the file >> and just extract some columns from the 60000 lines to display in a field. >> E.g. the column "number dialled", which contains phone number like >> -> 447973100123 >> >> The CSV files are definitively correct but I found that in the resulting field some of these numbers >> appear in scientific notation >> -> 4.47888E+11 >> >> This does not happen with phone numbers with a leading ZERO: like >> -> 07557162491 >> So maybe this a small hint? >> >> However I do not even touch these items I just use: >> ... >> put item 9 of tLine into item 6 of tNewLine >> ## tLine is the line from the CSV and tNewLine is for the data in the display field. >> ... >> >> My simple workaround, no idea why, but it obviously works: >> ... >> put item 9 of tLine into ttt >> put ttt into item 6 of tNewLine >> ... >> This avoids the scientific notation, what the hell is going on here? >> Any hints welcome. >> >> >> Best >> >> Klaus >> -- >> Klaus Major >> https://www.major-k.de >> https://www.major-k.de/bass >> klaus at major-k.de >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri Sep 9 16:54:05 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 16:54:05 -0400 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: <002d01d8c477$3f7e1710$be7a4530$@net> References: <6AF5BE8C-DC3F-4EA9-8490-BA6DDDD7DD7E@m-r-d.de> <002d01d8c477$3f7e1710$be7a4530$@net> Message-ID: Thanks for the help, guys. What about this list for a next-up wishlist?: * I think some of the properties in the PI are extraneous: "selected item name", "pre Hilited item", "pre hilited name", so remove them from the PI * Add borders/margins or offsets, because on mobile, there is furniture, especially on the ipad pros, and especially in ipados 16.x, which cover parts of the nav bar * icon size selection * support embedding raw svg paths * support new icon picker widget From mark at livecode.com Sat Sep 10 02:55:20 2022 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2022 07:55:20 +0100 Subject: LC converts phone number to scientific notation In-Reply-To: References: <74920219-28CD-46EA-825A-61AB3EC0006F@major-k.de> Message-ID: On 2022-09-09 11:40, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > Hi Panos, > >> Am 09.09.2022 um 12:27 schrieb panagiotis m via use-livecode >> : >> >> Hello Klaus, >> >> I guess what happens here is that if you fetch item X of line Y and >> use it >> directly, LC treats it as a number and displays it in scientific >> notation. > > obviously! Panos isn't correct here... None of the code you posted would cause a string to be converted to a number - the engine only does that when you pass a string to something which expects a number (and returns one). Specifically the 'item' chunk is a string chunk - it just manipulates fetches or stores sequences of characters into other sequences of characters. So the problem you are having is elsewhere - and not in the code which reorders the strings of the lines you have imported. It is either happening when you import the data, or when you are displaying it. Indeed, LCS doesn't use scientific notation when converting numbers to strings implicitly - you need to use `format()` to get numbers in that string form. However, LCB *does* use scientific format when converting numbers to strings (currently at least - we've got an item on the todo list to improve that behavior). For example, the variable viewer in the SE is a treeview widget, so if a variable holds a number that will display in scientific notation if it has above a certain number of significant digits. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From gcanyon at gmail.com Sat Sep 10 04:13:09 2022 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2022 01:13:09 -0700 Subject: Stylistic question. In-Reply-To: <38D7510C-9393-4E57-9239-702EE456ACB1@iotecdigital.com> References: <1818ceeb0b0.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <990BFD28-D609-4498-9DF0-A80E605861C4@iotecdigital.com> <87FBDED9-D4FA-4280-AB55-702A7A5DBA09@iotecdigital.com> <6697AA2B-0FD5-46A1-86CF-381113B80A1E@iotecdigital.com> <1E86E371-EF17-4985-BE57-938BA45A2D64@iotecdigital.com> <38D7510C-9393-4E57-9239-702EE456ACB1@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Ah, okay, I think I understand. There's a bit to unpack here: 1. There is no direct communication between Navigator and the LC IDE toolbar. That means that the inspector triggered by the IDE toolbar will reflect whatever is selected. 2. Navigator *only* tries to change the current selection automatically when it is displaying "This Card" of "The Topstack" -- that goes both ways; it only tries to reflect the selection in the IDE when this card and the topstack are displayed. 3. Navigator will try to select controls when Select Objects is selected in the popup menu. 4. It is not always possible to select controls. As I recall, controls in groups can be selected, controls in stacks displaying as palettes or in other modes cannot. I'm not sure about controls on not-currently-displayed cards. 5. Because of (4) and (1), It is not always the case that selecting "Inspector" in the IDE toolbar will open an inspector for whatever is selected in Navigator. 1. Inspector palettes can be locked or unlocked. This is indicated by the small padlock that is, for me at least, the left-most of the right group of icons at the top of the inspector. This is unrelated to Navigator; you can click the lock or unlock the inspector. 2. I don't know the particulars of the lock in the IDE; as far as I know, it always starts out unlocked. 3. If you select "Single Object Inspector" from either the popup menu or the properties menu, Navigator will do its best to select the highlighted objects, and then open the inspector unlocked. The inspector reflects the current selection. So for example, selecting two cards and then "Single Object Inspector" *has* to fail; LiveCode doesn't support selecting two cards at once. Likewise, selecting ar card that is not the current card of the particular stack and then "Single Object Inspector" will also fail, and display the stack. I can't fix this; what to display when the inspector is unlocked is up to the inspector code. The alternative -- Individual Object Inspectors -- *will* work. It opens one copy of the inspector for each control in Navigator's selection, and opens them with the lock closed.This allows the inspector to reflect anything. But it does have the drawback of opening an individual palette for each control. I think I put a warning in if the number of controls is large, with an option to cancel. Then there is the use case where you want to have just one inspector, reflecting a number of controls that might not be "select"-able. As far as I know the IDE palette doesn't support this. Navigator's Property Editor does. It reflects any selected controls in Navigator when it is opened, and can set properties for all of them at once. It can also be opened as a separate palette. In that case it reflects the most recent selection in whichever copy of Navigator you interact with, meaning that if you make a new selection of controls in a different copy of Navigator, that will be reflected in the palette. The Navigator Property Editor is a simple list for speed. It displays only the properties the controls have in common, snd bolds the ones where the obects' properties differ. There's more to the palette, but I don't want to write (more of) a novel. Hopefully this helps. As far as I know Navigator is working properly regarding this use case. Thanks for the feedback! Geoff On Thu, Sep 8, 2022 at 8:38 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Yes that works. What doesn't work is selecting the card in the list, then > clicking the Inspector button in the LC IDE toolbar. It's easier for me to > do that because if I click another object in Navigator, the focus of the > Inspector (Properties Editor) changes to the selected object. If I do the > right-click single object method, sometimes the focus does NOT change, and > I have to do the right-click thungummy again. > > Bob S > > > On Sep 8, 2022, at 24:54 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> > wrote: > > Can you be more specific? I tried selecting the card both in the live > display and the specific card display, and then on the Properties "P" menu > I selected Property Editor, Single Object Inspector, and Individual Object > Inspectors, and it always came up showing the card. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sat Sep 10 12:02:49 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2022 12:02:49 -0400 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <6AF5BE8C-DC3F-4EA9-8490-BA6DDDD7DD7E@m-r-d.de> <002d01d8c477$3f7e1710$be7a4530$@net> Message-ID: Update: * Put it on github because I'm starting to tweak it, too (on the develop branch - Ralph's original version is on the Deploy branch) * Made several properties invisible in the Properties Inspector * on to the next item on the list On Fri, Sep 9, 2022 at 4:54 PM Mike Kerner wrote: > Thanks for the help, guys. > What about this list for a next-up wishlist?: > * I think some of the properties in the PI are extraneous: "selected item > name", "pre Hilited item", "pre hilited name", so remove them from the PI > * Add borders/margins or offsets, because on mobile, there is furniture, > especially on the ipad pros, and especially in ipados 16.x, which cover > parts of the nav bar > * icon size selection > * support embedding raw svg paths > * support new icon picker widget > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From klaus at major-k.de Sat Sep 10 12:48:29 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2022 18:48:29 +0200 Subject: LC converts phone number to scientific notation In-Reply-To: References: <74920219-28CD-46EA-825A-61AB3EC0006F@major-k.de> Message-ID: <5711E451-7A19-4B33-9D7B-CE027BB75DD4@major-k.de> Hi Mark, > Am 10.09.2022 um 08:55 schrieb Mark Waddingham via use-livecode : > > On 2022-09-09 11:40, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >> Hi Panos, >>> Am 09.09.2022 um 12:27 schrieb panagiotis m via use-livecode : >>> Hello Klaus, >>> I guess what happens here is that if you fetch item X of line Y and use it >>> directly, LC treats it as a number and displays it in scientific notation. >> obviously! > > Panos isn't correct here... > None of the code you posted would cause a string to be converted to a number - the engine only does that when you pass a string to something which expects a number (and returns one). > Specifically the 'item' chunk is a string chunk - it just manipulates fetches or stores sequences of characters into other sequences of characters. > So the problem you are having is elsewhere - and not in the code which reorders the strings of the lines you have imported. > It is either happening when you import the data, or when you are displaying it. Well, the imported (dropped) file does not contain these strings then I am only setting the text of a field to the collected lines (tNewLine) after the repeat loop: ... put item 9 of tLine into item 6 of tNewLine ... > Indeed, LCS doesn't use scientific notation when converting numbers to strings implicitly - you need to use `format()` to get numbers in that string form. Hm, the debugger also has this problem and the bug does not seem to be fixed yet: OK, anyway, do you have a hint on how to debug this with my 60000 lines file? I checked the "item 9" (see above) and even "item 6 of tNewLine" after the line above for scientific notation, no dice, I can only see this behavior in the field after I filled in the new data? Will keep on exploring... > However, LCB *does* use scientific format when converting numbers to strings (currently at least - we've got an item on the todo list to improve that behavior). For example, the variable viewer in the SE is a treeview widget, so if a variable holds a number that will display in scientific notation if it has above a certain number of significant digits. Thanks for chiming in! > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > > -- > Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Everyone can create apps Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Sat Sep 10 13:44:12 2022 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2022 13:44:12 -0400 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <6AF5BE8C-DC3F-4EA9-8490-BA6DDDD7DD7E@m-r-d.de> <002d01d8c477$3f7e1710$be7a4530$@net> Message-ID: <000d01d8c53c$f3cc6d00$db654700$@net> I also got rid of the 3 properties. I have a Icon Zoom percent that defaults to 100 % for all icons just about finished. I guess I'll have to understand github. I was hoping to avoid it until I retire. Every time I go to github it's just so confusing just to get something that's there. It's not intuitive at all. It gives me a headache bigger than LCB if that's possible. Is there any place that explains how to use it with some clarity? Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2022 12:03 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Mike Kerner Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual Update: * Put it on github because I'm starting to tweak it, too (on the develop branch - Ralph's original version is on the Deploy branch) * Made several properties invisible in the Properties Inspector * on to the next item on the list On Fri, Sep 9, 2022 at 4:54 PM Mike Kerner wrote: > Thanks for the help, guys. > What about this list for a next-up wishlist?: > * I think some of the properties in the PI are extraneous: "selected > item name", "pre Hilited item", "pre hilited name", so remove them > from the PI > * Add borders/margins or offsets, because on mobile, there is > furniture, especially on the ipad pros, and especially in ipados 16.x, > which cover parts of the nav bar > * icon size selection > * support embedding raw svg paths > * support new icon picker widget > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sat Sep 10 13:53:57 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2022 13:53:57 -0400 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: <000d01d8c53c$f3cc6d00$db654700$@net> References: <6AF5BE8C-DC3F-4EA9-8490-BA6DDDD7DD7E@m-r-d.de> <002d01d8c477$3f7e1710$be7a4530$@net> <000d01d8c53c$f3cc6d00$db654700$@net> Message-ID: tell you what: email me what you do, and i'll email you what i do, and then i'll put it up on the repo, and then you don't have to. On Sat, Sep 10, 2022 at 1:45 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I also got rid of the 3 properties. I have a Icon Zoom percent that > defaults > to 100 % for all icons just about finished. > > I guess I'll have to understand github. I was hoping to avoid it until I > retire. Every time I go to github it's just so confusing just to get > something that's there. It's not intuitive at all. It gives me a headache > bigger than LCB if that's possible. Is there any place that explains how to > use it with some clarity? > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On > Behalf > Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode > Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2022 12:03 PM > To: How to use LiveCode > Cc: Mike Kerner > Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual > > Update: > * Put it on github because I'm starting to tweak it, too (on the develop > branch - Ralph's original version is on the Deploy branch) > * Made several properties invisible in the Properties Inspector > * on to the next item on the list > > On Fri, Sep 9, 2022 at 4:54 PM Mike Kerner > wrote: > > > Thanks for the help, guys. > > What about this list for a next-up wishlist?: > > * I think some of the properties in the PI are extraneous: "selected > > item name", "pre Hilited item", "pre hilited name", so remove them > > from the PI > > * Add borders/margins or offsets, because on mobile, there is > > furniture, especially on the ipad pros, and especially in ipados 16.x, > > which cover parts of the nav bar > > * icon size selection > > * support embedding raw svg paths > > * support new icon picker widget > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, > God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sat Sep 10 13:59:47 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2022 13:59:47 -0400 Subject: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <55236804-6B06-47A8-8ECF-AA548BC9F892@milby7.com> Message-ID: I was trying to work on Ralph's improvements on the navBar and I kept getting bitten by the thin documentation of lcb, so for my own benefit, i started a wiki and issues list to fill in the blanks Please help me learn lcb by adding to both of these. The wiki: https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual/wiki The issues: https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual/issues On Fri, Sep 2, 2022 at 8:42 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 9/2/22 16:54, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote: > > Did a simple test with 819kb json file: > > - JSON Library / LCB 5400 ms > > - PhotonJSON / LCS 400 ms > > - mergJSON / extension 250 ms > > That's impressive. Monte's external is written in C, so that's as close > to bare metal as we're gonna get. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From brian at milby7.com Sat Sep 10 15:35:49 2022 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2022 15:35:49 -0400 Subject: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <659B03EE-86BD-450C-BA9D-FD4859DBC6E5@milby7.com> Honestly the way I learned the most about LCB was working on the LC widgets. There is plenty of example code there but you just have to spend time understanding what you are reading. Brian Milby brian at milby7.com > On Sep 10, 2022, at 2:01 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > I was trying to work on Ralph's improvements on the navBar and I kept > getting bitten by the thin documentation of lcb, so for my own benefit, i > started a wiki and issues list to fill in the blanks > Please help me learn lcb by adding to both of these. > The wiki: https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual/wiki > The issues: https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual/issues > > >> On Fri, Sep 2, 2022 at 8:42 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>> On 9/2/22 16:54, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote: >>> Did a simple test with 819kb json file: >>> - JSON Library / LCB 5400 ms >>> - PhotonJSON / LCS 400 ms >>> - mergJSON / extension 250 ms >> >> That's impressive. Monte's external is written in C, so that's as close >> to bare metal as we're gonna get. >> >> -- >> Mark Wieder >> ahsoftware at gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sat Sep 10 15:47:58 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2022 15:47:58 -0400 Subject: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: <659B03EE-86BD-450C-BA9D-FD4859DBC6E5@milby7.com> References: <659B03EE-86BD-450C-BA9D-FD4859DBC6E5@milby7.com> Message-ID: I was about to call you out, too, Brian. I started trying to work with LCB several years ago, kept slamming into things that weren't documented, and decided I had better things to do with my time. Now I'm back at it, but I don't think it should be such a black hole, especially when I put it down for a couple of months and then want to get back into it. If we want other people to take the plunge, and maybe invent cool stuff using it, something better than what exists, now, should exist. On Sat, Sep 10, 2022 at 3:36 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Honestly the way I learned the most about LCB was working on the LC > widgets. There is plenty of example code there but you just have to spend > time understanding what you are reading. > > Brian Milby > brian at milby7.com > > > On Sep 10, 2022, at 2:01 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > I was trying to work on Ralph's improvements on the navBar and I kept > > getting bitten by the thin documentation of lcb, so for my own benefit, i > > started a wiki and issues list to fill in the blanks > > Please help me learn lcb by adding to both of these. > > The wiki: https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual/wiki > > The issues: https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual/issues > > > > > >> On Fri, Sep 2, 2022 at 8:42 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode < > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> > >>> On 9/2/22 16:54, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote: > >>> Did a simple test with 819kb json file: > >>> - JSON Library / LCB 5400 ms > >>> - PhotonJSON / LCS 400 ms > >>> - mergJSON / extension 250 ms > >> > >> That's impressive. Monte's external is written in C, so that's as close > >> to bare metal as we're gonna get. > >> > >> -- > >> Mark Wieder > >> ahsoftware at gmail.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From brian at milby7.com Sat Sep 10 21:47:31 2022 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2022 21:47:31 -0400 Subject: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <659B03EE-86BD-450C-BA9D-FD4859DBC6E5@milby7.com> Message-ID: I guess I never answered the original question: The editor type isn't a LCB thing. Those are a part of the IDE. Here is the path from the open source repository: .../livecode/ide/Toolset/palettes/inspector/editors/ You should also be able to find them in your local install of LC. /Applications/LiveCode/LiveCode 9.6.9 (rc 1).app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/palettes/inspector/editors/ I agree that they should be documented somewhere. Looking at the names there, most that you would use are probably fairly evident. The LiveCode Builder Style Guide/Widget specific guidelines covers the 4 entries needed to use many of the PI editors. There is one in a widget that could be useful though "user_visible" - this property is not displayed in the PI but is available to get/set. "options" looks to be specific to the "enum" editor. The Extending Livecode Guide covers the 4 that are needed for the widget as a whole. It does look like there are a few additional ones used in widgets that are not mentioned that should be included in the docs (os, svgicon, preferredsize, userVisible, _ide). I tend to be fairly adept at reading and understanding code - even if I don't know the syntax well enough to write it. So I didn't really read the documentation to learn LCB (but referenced the syntax and style guide as needed), but read the widgets that I was working on. As such, the things you are having difficulty finding didn't really impact my efforts. I was mainly extending the widget and was just copying existing code as a model when adding things (properties and handlers). About the only thing that really tripped me up was aliased properties. You have to define the main property and then alias works. If you define the alias, then it doesn't work (TreeView widget - scroll vice vscroll). Considering all of this, I consider all of the included LCB source code as part of the documentation for LCB. I'll add some comments to your "issues" Thanks, Brian On Sat, Sep 10, 2022 at 3:49 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I was about to call you out, too, Brian. > I started trying to work with LCB several years ago, kept slamming into > things that weren't documented, and decided I had better things to do with > my time. > Now I'm back at it, but I don't think it should be such a black hole, > especially when I put it down for a couple of months and then want to get > back into it. > If we want other people to take the plunge, and maybe invent cool stuff > using it, something better than what exists, now, should exist. > > On Sat, Sep 10, 2022 at 3:36 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > Honestly the way I learned the most about LCB was working on the LC > > widgets. There is plenty of example code there but you just have to > spend > > time understanding what you are reading. > > > > Brian Milby > > brian at milby7.com > > > > > On Sep 10, 2022, at 2:01 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > > > I was trying to work on Ralph's improvements on the navBar and I kept > > > getting bitten by the thin documentation of lcb, so for my own > benefit, i > > > started a wiki and issues list to fill in the blanks > > > Please help me learn lcb by adding to both of these. > > > The wiki: https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual/wiki > > > The issues: https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual/issues > > > > > > > > >> On Fri, Sep 2, 2022 at 8:42 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode < > > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > >> > > >>> On 9/2/22 16:54, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote: > > >>> Did a simple test with 819kb json file: > > >>> - JSON Library / LCB 5400 ms > > >>> - PhotonJSON / LCS 400 ms > > >>> - mergJSON / extension 250 ms > > >> > > >> That's impressive. Monte's external is written in C, so that's as > close > > >> to bare metal as we're gonna get. > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Mark Wieder > > >> ahsoftware at gmail.com > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> use-livecode mailing list > > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > >> subscription preferences: > > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > >> > > > > > > > > > -- > > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > > and did a little diving. > > > And God said, "This is good." > > > _______________________________________________ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sun Sep 11 00:39:14 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2022 00:39:14 -0400 Subject: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <659B03EE-86BD-450C-BA9D-FD4859DBC6E5@milby7.com> Message-ID: I emailed this privately to Brian, but I'll include it here for everyone, too. The versions of the LCB manuals that are on LC's website (at least the ones that I was able to find), are dated. The versions that are included embedded in LC are much more complete (though still missing things). Until I was putting the wiki together, I didn't realize they were different. So, until LC updates the version on the site, use the version that's embedded in LC itself. Anyway, Brian, it would be good to either have a "gotchas" page or another wiki pages about aliased properties having to be defined before they are aliased. I think it would be good to add examples to the wiki as well, to make it easier for more people to approach LCB, faster. On Sat, Sep 10, 2022 at 9:48 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I guess I never answered the original question: > > The editor type isn't a LCB thing. Those are a part of the IDE. Here is > the path from the open source repository: > .../livecode/ide/Toolset/palettes/inspector/editors/ > You should also be able to find them in your local install of LC. > /Applications/LiveCode/LiveCode 9.6.9 (rc > 1).app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/palettes/inspector/editors/ > I agree that they should be documented somewhere. Looking at the names > there, most that you would use are probably fairly evident. > > The LiveCode Builder Style Guide/Widget specific guidelines covers the 4 > entries needed to use many of the PI editors. There is one in a widget > that could be useful though "user_visible" - this property is not displayed > in the PI but is available to get/set. "options" looks to be specific to > the "enum" editor. > > The Extending Livecode Guide covers the 4 that are needed for the widget as > a whole. It does look like there are a few additional ones used in widgets > that are not mentioned that should be included in the docs (os, svgicon, > preferredsize, userVisible, _ide). > > I tend to be fairly adept at reading and understanding code - even if I > don't know the syntax well enough to write it. So I didn't really read the > documentation to learn LCB (but referenced the syntax and style guide as > needed), but read the widgets that I was working on. As such, the things > you are having difficulty finding didn't really impact my efforts. I was > mainly extending the widget and was just copying existing code as a model > when adding things (properties and handlers). About the only thing that > really tripped me up was aliased properties. You have to define the main > property and then alias works. If you define the alias, then it doesn't > work (TreeView widget - scroll vice vscroll). Considering all of this, I > consider all of the included LCB source code as part of the documentation > for LCB. > > I'll add some comments to your "issues" > > Thanks, > Brian > > > On Sat, Sep 10, 2022 at 3:49 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > I was about to call you out, too, Brian. > > I started trying to work with LCB several years ago, kept slamming into > > things that weren't documented, and decided I had better things to do > with > > my time. > > Now I'm back at it, but I don't think it should be such a black hole, > > especially when I put it down for a couple of months and then want to get > > back into it. > > If we want other people to take the plunge, and maybe invent cool stuff > > using it, something better than what exists, now, should exist. > > > > On Sat, Sep 10, 2022 at 3:36 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > > Honestly the way I learned the most about LCB was working on the LC > > > widgets. There is plenty of example code there but you just have to > > spend > > > time understanding what you are reading. > > > > > > Brian Milby > > > brian at milby7.com > > > > > > > On Sep 10, 2022, at 2:01 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > I was trying to work on Ralph's improvements on the navBar and I > kept > > > > getting bitten by the thin documentation of lcb, so for my own > > benefit, i > > > > started a wiki and issues list to fill in the blanks > > > > Please help me learn lcb by adding to both of these. > > > > The wiki: https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual/wiki > > > > The issues: https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual/issues > > > > > > > > > > > >> On Fri, Sep 2, 2022 at 8:42 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode < > > > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> On 9/2/22 16:54, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote: > > > >>> Did a simple test with 819kb json file: > > > >>> - JSON Library / LCB 5400 ms > > > >>> - PhotonJSON / LCS 400 ms > > > >>> - mergJSON / extension 250 ms > > > >> > > > >> That's impressive. Monte's external is written in C, so that's as > > close > > > >> to bare metal as we're gonna get. > > > >> > > > >> -- > > > >> Mark Wieder > > > >> ahsoftware at gmail.com > > > >> > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> use-livecode mailing list > > > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > >> subscription preferences: > > > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > > > and did a little diving. > > > > And God said, "This is good." > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > subscription preferences: > > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sun Sep 11 11:20:40 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2022 11:20:40 -0400 Subject: Livecode Builder -how t write to a file? In-Reply-To: <5E7A5A08-0B06-46D4-8A97-74F057C834D5@m-r-d.de> References: <9D894134-797F-4426-9FF1-9DEFAC1E1FC8@m-r-d.de> <5E7A5A08-0B06-46D4-8A97-74F057C834D5@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: Try execute script that throws you over the wall into LCS On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 6:46 PM matthias rebbe via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Thanks Zryip, > > i think that is a good workaround. ;) > > Thanks. > > Regards, > Matthias > > > > Am 22.08.2022 um 00:38 schrieb zryip theSlug via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: > > > > Dear Matthias, > > > > I do not have the answer but a possible workaround. > > > > For debugging purposes I'm using the post message. > > > > In LCB add this handler: > > private handler throwWidgetError(in pError as String) returns nothing > > post "catchWidgetError" with [pError] > > end handler > > > > Call it by using: > > throwWidgetError("Something to log") > > > > And catch it by adding this handler into the card script where you test > > your widget: > > > > *command* catchWidgetError pTheError > > * put* pTheError & cr after msg > > *end* catchWidgetError > > > > This might be verbose as the message box will take the focus, and the > > widget will refresh, so logging in a file instead of the message box > would > > be a possibility. > > > > *command* catchWidgetError pTheError > > * write *pTheError to file "xxx" > > *end* catchWidgetError > > > > On Sun, 21 Aug 2022 at 20:59, matthias rebbe via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > >> Hi. > >> > >> From time to time and when time allows i am trying to get used to with > >> Livecode Builder. > >> For debugging i would like my lcb script to write some debug code to a > >> file, but i really do not see how this can be done. > >> I found the experimental com.livecode.file module and the operator 'the > >> filecontents of file...', but unfortunately no script example. > >> > >> Does anyone know, if and how i can write some data to an external file > on > >> hard disk in LCB? > >> > >> > >> Regards, > >> Matthias > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > > > > > -- > > Zryip TheSlug > > http://www.aslugontheroad.com > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From kee.nethery at elloco.com Sun Sep 11 17:32:04 2022 From: kee.nethery at elloco.com (kee nethery) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2022 14:32:04 -0700 Subject: LC converts phone number to scientific notation In-Reply-To: <74920219-28CD-46EA-825A-61AB3EC0006F@major-k.de> References: <74920219-28CD-46EA-825A-61AB3EC0006F@major-k.de> Message-ID: <05D90C92-D36F-489D-8F94-115BACF12EB4@elloco.com> I had the same problem with long integer numbers being imported into a spreadsheet. My solution was to append “a” to the numbers before they got imported into the spreadsheet. Kee Nethery > On Sep 9, 2022, at 3:00 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi friends, > > I have a very strange problem, but also found a workaround for it. > > I first convert an 8 MB CSV file with 60000 lines to TAB delimited data, then I parse the file > and just extract some columns from the 60000 lines to display in a field. > E.g. the column "number dialled", which contains phone number like > -> 447973100123 > > The CSV files are definitively correct but I found that in the resulting field some of these numbers > appear in scientific notation > -> 4.47888E+11 > > This does not happen with phone numbers with a leading ZERO: like > -> 07557162491 > So maybe this a small hint? > > However I do not even touch these items I just use: > ... > put item 9 of tLine into item 6 of tNewLine > ## tLine is the line from the CSV and tNewLine is for the data in the display field. > ... > > My simple workaround, no idea why, but it obviously works: > ... > put item 9 of tLine into ttt > put ttt into item 6 of tNewLine > ... > This avoids the scientific notation, what the hell is going on here? > Any hints welcome. > > > Best > > Klaus > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > https://www.major-k.de/bass > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sun Sep 11 19:44:50 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2022 19:44:50 -0400 Subject: Livecode Builder -how t write to a file? In-Reply-To: References: <9D894134-797F-4426-9FF1-9DEFAC1E1FC8@m-r-d.de> <5E7A5A08-0B06-46D4-8A97-74F057C834D5@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: >From Brian, answering the same question on the LCB Missing Manual repo "See the contents of file File in the LCB dictionary. The actual name is FileContents" On Sun, Sep 11, 2022 at 11:20 AM Mike Kerner wrote: > Try execute script > that throws you over the wall into LCS > > > On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 6:46 PM matthias rebbe via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Thanks Zryip, >> >> i think that is a good workaround. ;) >> >> Thanks. >> >> Regards, >> Matthias >> >> >> > Am 22.08.2022 um 00:38 schrieb zryip theSlug via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: >> > >> > Dear Matthias, >> > >> > I do not have the answer but a possible workaround. >> > >> > For debugging purposes I'm using the post message. >> > >> > In LCB add this handler: >> > private handler throwWidgetError(in pError as String) returns nothing >> > post "catchWidgetError" with [pError] >> > end handler >> > >> > Call it by using: >> > throwWidgetError("Something to log") >> > >> > And catch it by adding this handler into the card script where you test >> > your widget: >> > >> > *command* catchWidgetError pTheError >> > * put* pTheError & cr after msg >> > *end* catchWidgetError >> > >> > This might be verbose as the message box will take the focus, and the >> > widget will refresh, so logging in a file instead of the message box >> would >> > be a possibility. >> > >> > *command* catchWidgetError pTheError >> > * write *pTheError to file "xxx" >> > *end* catchWidgetError >> > >> > On Sun, 21 Aug 2022 at 20:59, matthias rebbe via use-livecode < >> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> > >> >> Hi. >> >> >> >> From time to time and when time allows i am trying to get used to with >> >> Livecode Builder. >> >> For debugging i would like my lcb script to write some debug code to a >> >> file, but i really do not see how this can be done. >> >> I found the experimental com.livecode.file module and the operator 'the >> >> filecontents of file...', but unfortunately no script example. >> >> >> >> Does anyone know, if and how i can write some data to an external file >> on >> >> hard disk in LCB? >> >> >> >> >> >> Regards, >> >> Matthias >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> use-livecode mailing list >> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> >> subscription preferences: >> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Zryip TheSlug >> > http://www.aslugontheroad.com >> > _______________________________________________ >> > use-livecode mailing list >> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sun Sep 11 23:21:00 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2022 23:21:00 -0400 Subject: Livecode Builder -how t write to a file? In-Reply-To: References: <9D894134-797F-4426-9FF1-9DEFAC1E1FC8@m-r-d.de> <5E7A5A08-0B06-46D4-8A97-74F057C834D5@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: one other note on execute script, if you choose to go that route: you cannot use it until the OnLoad() and OnCreate() events achieve. On Sun, Sep 11, 2022 at 7:44 PM Mike Kerner wrote: > From Brian, answering the same question on the LCB Missing Manual repo > "See the contents of file File in the LCB dictionary. The actual name is > FileContents" > > On Sun, Sep 11, 2022 at 11:20 AM Mike Kerner > wrote: > >> Try execute script >> that throws you over the wall into LCS >> >> >> On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 6:46 PM matthias rebbe via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>> Thanks Zryip, >>> >>> i think that is a good workaround. ;) >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Matthias >>> >>> >>> > Am 22.08.2022 um 00:38 schrieb zryip theSlug via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: >>> > >>> > Dear Matthias, >>> > >>> > I do not have the answer but a possible workaround. >>> > >>> > For debugging purposes I'm using the post message. >>> > >>> > In LCB add this handler: >>> > private handler throwWidgetError(in pError as String) returns nothing >>> > post "catchWidgetError" with [pError] >>> > end handler >>> > >>> > Call it by using: >>> > throwWidgetError("Something to log") >>> > >>> > And catch it by adding this handler into the card script where you test >>> > your widget: >>> > >>> > *command* catchWidgetError pTheError >>> > * put* pTheError & cr after msg >>> > *end* catchWidgetError >>> > >>> > This might be verbose as the message box will take the focus, and the >>> > widget will refresh, so logging in a file instead of the message box >>> would >>> > be a possibility. >>> > >>> > *command* catchWidgetError pTheError >>> > * write *pTheError to file "xxx" >>> > *end* catchWidgetError >>> > >>> > On Sun, 21 Aug 2022 at 20:59, matthias rebbe via use-livecode < >>> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> > >>> >> Hi. >>> >> >>> >> From time to time and when time allows i am trying to get used to with >>> >> Livecode Builder. >>> >> For debugging i would like my lcb script to write some debug code to a >>> >> file, but i really do not see how this can be done. >>> >> I found the experimental com.livecode.file module and the operator >>> 'the >>> >> filecontents of file...', but unfortunately no script example. >>> >> >>> >> Does anyone know, if and how i can write some data to an external >>> file on >>> >> hard disk in LCB? >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Regards, >>> >> Matthias >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> use-livecode mailing list >>> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> >> subscription preferences: >>> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > Zryip TheSlug >>> > http://www.aslugontheroad.com >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > use-livecode mailing list >>> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> >> -- >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >> On the second day, God created the oceans. >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> and did a little diving. >> And God said, "This is good." >> > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From paul at livecode.org Sun Sep 11 23:29:59 2022 From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2022 20:29:59 -0700 Subject: Sort Ascending DateTime - failure Message-ID: <316E4EFB-AF90-42FB-B40E-A8B4091C2FF6@livecode.org> While playing around with the PolyGrid, I wanted to try adding sorting options by clicking the PolyGrid Header Labels. The solution I came up with drove me nuts until I discovered that there appears to be an issue associated with the sort command and dateTime. According to the dictionary, text can be sorted by dateTime, and the entry for dateTime states… "The dateTime keyword recognizes all LiveCode's date and time formats and sorts them in time order, rather than alphabetical or numeric order." Date Formats: the [{ long | abbreviated | short }] [{ english | system }] date …So I was expecting to be able to sort the PolyGrid by the dates as entered, because they are set to the same format as the system date on my Mac, however, sorting by dateTime fails (on my Mac) when the system is set to use dashes as date separators. e.g.: 11-09-2022, it works fine with any other format. e.g.: 11/09/2022 I know that I can work around this fairly easily, but I see this as a bug. Before I report it, I figured it would be best to ask here if anyone else has come across this, or am I missing something? Seems like this should have been caught a long time ago. macOS Monterey Version 12.5.1 LiveCode 9.6.8 & 10.0.0 (dp 4) Paul From paul at livecode.org Sun Sep 11 23:55:35 2022 From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2022 20:55:35 -0700 Subject: Sort Ascending DateTime - failure In-Reply-To: <316E4EFB-AF90-42FB-B40E-A8B4091C2FF6@livecode.org> References: <316E4EFB-AF90-42FB-B40E-A8B4091C2FF6@livecode.org> Message-ID: Should have waited to send this, on further investigation, I found the useSystemDate property, now all is well. Sorry for the noise! > On 11Sep, 2022, at 8:29 PM, Paul Hibbert via use-livecode wrote: > > While playing around with the PolyGrid, I wanted to try adding sorting options by clicking the PolyGrid Header Labels. The solution I came up with drove me nuts until I discovered that there appears to be an issue associated with the sort command and dateTime. > > According to the dictionary, text can be sorted by dateTime, and the entry for dateTime states… > > "The dateTime keyword recognizes all LiveCode's date and time formats and sorts them in time order, rather than alphabetical or numeric order." > > Date Formats: > > the [{ long | abbreviated | short }] [{ english | system }] date > > …So I was expecting to be able to sort the PolyGrid by the dates as entered, because they are set to the same format as the system date on my Mac, however, sorting by dateTime fails (on my Mac) when the system is set to use dashes as date separators. e.g.: 11-09-2022, it works fine with any other format. e.g.: 11/09/2022 > > I know that I can work around this fairly easily, but I see this as a bug. Before I report it, I figured it would be best to ask here if anyone else has come across this, or am I missing something? Seems like this should have been caught a long time ago. > > macOS Monterey > Version 12.5.1 > LiveCode 9.6.8 & 10.0.0 (dp 4) > > Paul > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Mon Sep 12 01:24:57 2022 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2022 15:24:57 +1000 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance Message-ID: <5849A832-9EC5-4815-91DB-82376B2A7C7A@optusnet.com.au> I have enough datapoints to report some findings from my comparison of the appearance of fonts across platforms, in particular on the length of strings in fields and text baselines, and to correct some of my previous statements. My intention is to compile a database for some 7000+ fonts in 7 different font sizes ranging from 9pt to 18pt on Mac Windows and Linux system; but for now (for reasons given below) I looked at four basic fonts in common use: Arial, Times New Roman, Noto Sans and Noto Serif. The good news is that the horrible problem of different strings lengths is no longer a problem, as long as your target platforms are just Mac or Windows 10. For each of these four fonts, strings in (right or left justified) fields have the same rendered length (they differ between fonts of course). I would be confident that holds for all TrueType fonts installed on these platforms, starting from the advent of Windows 10. My former claim about a difference between High Sierra and Monterey on the Mac is incorrect, the result of a coding error. Of course the field or stack must have a font assigned: leaving the font to empty will result in the system using its own font, which will be consistent with the look-and-feel of the platform/system version, but which will certainly be quite different between platforms. On LInux (Ubuntu 18.x) however, string lengths for all the fonts in all sizes are quite different, sometimes longer and sometimes shorter than on the other platforms. The biggest difference was for Noto Sans 9pt, the sample Linux string being 14% longer; this was an outlier, mostly the Linux strings were less than 8% longer. In the other directions was Arial 15pt, where Linux was 5% shorter. So if Linux is a target platform, allow some extra length for your fields (on the right for a left justified field, on the left for a right justified label). A more difficult problem is the vertical placement of text. With the default settings for fields, strings in Windows will typically appear 2 or 3 pixels lower than on a Mac, which can mess with your layout — text carefully positioned on one platform will appear too close to nearby objects on the other, or will not align with text in adjacent fields. This can be fixed by adjusting the topMargin of the field, but the details are not straightforward.. The baseline for rendered strings is determined by the font metrics and the font size; unfortunately Mac Windows and Linux all use different metrics from each other. It would be nice if LC had a function which returned the baseline for the rendered string, but I couldn’t find such a function. The closest formula I can get is (for text using the textFont and textSize of the owner field, and consigning to oblivion the formula I had previously proposed which was caused by the aforementioned error plus a glitch in the data processing unit, ie my brain.) first baseline relative to the top of the field = the topMargin of the field + fontAscent - 6 where fontAscent = - (item 2 of measureText(fld ,fld ,”bounds”) Why the magic number -6? It seems this places text in a common font such as Time New Roman or Arial in medium range textSizes such as 11 to 15 so that the top of the lower case character “x” is at ...approximately... the topMargin of the field. This would be the ideal placement for text at all fonts and sizes, but of course in general 6 is nothing like the difference between the fontAscent (the height of the capital “A” above the baseline) and the height of “x”, and anyway the fontAscent is not the actual height of the font, so for other sizes and fonts the placement is wildly different from the ideal. The simplification is probably a legacy of a decision originally made for speed given the complications of dealing with different font formats; a correction now would break all existing stacks. Actually while my formula fits precisely most of the time, it occasionally is out by 1 pixel. And that precision holds for all fonts I have looked at, even for the gorgeously extravagant Zapfino at 64pt. So the discrepancy is probably some floating point rounding from the correct formula. If anyone (LC engineer’s?) can provide the correct formula that would be nice, but I have the feeling it may involve a font metric not directly exposed by the LC api. The formula can be used to adjust the topMargin so that the baseline is fixed, to within 1 pixel anyway The adjustment would have to be done at runtime, or applied to a stack before building a standalone for a particular platform, using a pre-cooked fontAscent. Hence my database project. Just at the moment this has hit a bit of snag: as far as I can see, fonts have to be added to Windows 10 one at a time -- on a Mac you just dump a folder of fonts onto Font Book. Does anyone know how to do this in Windows and Linux? If necessary, following Ralph’s post I believe I could work out where the Mac and Windows 10 systems pick up their ascent parameters by parsing the ttf metadata (horrors!), but the Linux values are another mystery. The apparently obvious solution to the problem is to set fixedLineHeight to true, but unfortunately this does not work. The bottom of each character glyph will I guess be placed on a fixed line independently of the font, size or platform, but that is not the baseline, which will still be dependent on font metrics. The result is that even with fixedLineHeight true baselines are different for different sizes of a given font, and for different fonts for a given size even on the same platform (so adjacent fields with different fonts or sizes will not align baselines), and also different for a given font and size on different platforms so the layout looks sloppy. My formula for the first baseline for a field with fixed line height is baseline = the topMargin of the field + the textHeight of the field - item 2 of measureText(the field,the text,"size”) + fontAscent - 7 which again seems to be accurate except for a few (different!) cases where it is 1 pixel out. Again, if anyone knows the exact formula I would be grateful to hear it. Possibly an enhancement to LC could provide a fixedBaseline,baseline pair of properties for fields, which would set the first baseline at a user value, bleeding the text into the top margin, thus eliminating this problem. Neville From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Sep 12 22:51:46 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2022 19:51:46 -0700 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: <5849A832-9EC5-4815-91DB-82376B2A7C7A@optusnet.com.au> References: <5849A832-9EC5-4815-91DB-82376B2A7C7A@optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: This discussion has been very interesting to me. The team worked hard in v9 to deliver font management in a way that makes it easier than ever to deliver apps that meet user expectations and OS design specs on the platforms deployed to. Mac looks like Mac, Win looks like Win, all with one font setting. I used to have to work really hard with all sorts of workarounds to get that platform-savvy look, and now with the team's efforts with v9 it's a snap. Of course we all use the web, and I used to subscribe to CD-ROM publications that deliver textual content for multiple platforms. So I see the value in getting heading and body content in text-focused content-driven apps to look reasonably on-brand across platforms. But in all my native and web dev reading over the decades I don't think I've seen this much effort expended toward attempting to get near-perfect parity for text appearance across platforms (except for prepress, but that's another era). But I know you folks. You wouldn't put in this kind of effort if it wasn't useful. So help me understand: what are you working on where a user expects fine-grained font rendering consistency on multiple OSes? What do these apps do? Do your users switch OSes during a session, or work on Windows by day and Mac at night? How many also use Linux in that multi-OS workflow? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Sep 13 11:11:37 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2022 15:11:37 +0000 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: References: <5849A832-9EC5-4815-91DB-82376B2A7C7A@optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <45096339-7BFC-4AF4-9412-E2895F394B3F@iotecdigital.com> For me it's simple. I want the same baseline and alignment on two platforms I work with, MacOS and Windows, when using an embedded font. My particular issue is I think a bug and I am reminded to send Panos a sample stack demonstrating the issue. EXACT PRECICE EQUIVALENCE of font appearance is not my goal, and I don't think can ever be accomplished, due to the reasons cited before. I just want a label that has the width and height auto fitted on a Mac to not be cut off on Windows. Perhaps what would be useful is if there was an Autofit property for fields that would adjust the width and height of a field, instead of having to manually do it. Otherwise I can do it programmatically. Bob S On Sep 12, 2022, at 19:51 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode > wrote: This discussion has been very interesting to me. The team worked hard in v9 to deliver font management in a way that makes it easier than ever to deliver apps that meet user expectations and OS design specs on the platforms deployed to. Mac looks like Mac, Win looks like Win, all with one font setting. I used to have to work really hard with all sorts of workarounds to get that platform-savvy look, and now with the team's efforts with v9 it's a snap. Of course we all use the web, and I used to subscribe to CD-ROM publications that deliver textual content for multiple platforms. So I see the value in getting heading and body content in text-focused content-driven apps to look reasonably on-brand across platforms. But in all my native and web dev reading over the decades I don't think I've seen this much effort expended toward attempting to get near-perfect parity for text appearance across platforms (except for prepress, but that's another era). But I know you folks. You wouldn't put in this kind of effort if it wasn't useful. So help me understand: what are you working on where a user expects fine-grained font rendering consistency on multiple OSes? What do these apps do? Do your users switch OSes during a session, or work on Windows by day and Mac at night? How many also use Linux in that multi-OS workflow? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Sep 13 14:40:22 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2022 11:40:22 -0700 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: <45096339-7BFC-4AF4-9412-E2895F394B3F@iotecdigital.com> References: <45096339-7BFC-4AF4-9412-E2895F394B3F@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <159d6042-c467-2198-26e7-024d83eb6a51@fourthworld.com> Bob Sneidar wrote: > On Sep 12, 2022, at 19:51 , Richard Gaskin wrote: >> The team worked hard in v9 to deliver font management in a way that >> makes it easier than ever to deliver apps that meet user expectations >> and OS design specs on the platforms deployed to. Mac looks like >> Mac, Win looks like Win, all with one font setting. >>... >> So help me understand: what are you working on where a user expects >> fine-grained font rendering consistency on multiple OSes? What do >> these apps do? >> >> Do your users switch OSes during a session, or work on Windows by day >> and Mac at night? How many also use Linux in that multi-OS workflow? > > > For me it's simple. I want the same baseline and alignment on two > platforms I work with, MacOS and Windows, when using an embedded font. > ...I just want a label that has the width and height auto fitted on a > Mac to not be cut off on Windows. Thanks. I can see that, esp. since the HIGs for Mac and Win specify different font sizes. I've been including a little extra space to allow for that, and with alignment set well (left-aligned for full-row headers, right-aligned per HIG for form field labels) it's been working well enough. But this suggestion may help with some layouts: > Perhaps what would be useful is if there was an Autofit property for > fields that would adjust the width and height of a field, instead of > having to manually do it. Otherwise I can do it programmatically. It would be more convenient to have a property to set the width to the formattedWidth, but it raises another question: what do you do with the space saved? That is, if the layout it too tight to allow some extra space in a label field to accommodate the different HIG specs for each platform, when a field is automatically readjusted as proposed then wouldn't you also need to adjust surrounding controls to take advantage of the change? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Sep 13 15:02:44 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2022 19:02:44 +0000 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: <159d6042-c467-2198-26e7-024d83eb6a51@fourthworld.com> References: <45096339-7BFC-4AF4-9412-E2895F394B3F@iotecdigital.com> <159d6042-c467-2198-26e7-024d83eb6a51@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <694AF1EF-E50E-49D7-A1CD-D191E8902669@iotecdigital.com> I already leave a bit of air around my controls. Something I learned from a design guy years ago. Bob S On Sep 13, 2022, at 11:40 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode > wrote: > Perhaps what would be useful is if there was an Autofit property for > fields that would adjust the width and height of a field, instead of > having to manually do it. Otherwise I can do it programmatically. It would be more convenient to have a property to set the width to the formattedWidth, but it raises another question: what do you do with the space saved? That is, if the layout it too tight to allow some extra space in a label field to accommodate the different HIG specs for each platform, when a field is automatically readjusted as proposed then wouldn't you also need to adjust surrounding controls to take advantage of the change? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems From alex at tweedly.net Tue Sep 13 16:00:54 2022 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2022 21:00:54 +0100 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: References: <5849A832-9EC5-4815-91DB-82376B2A7C7A@optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: On 13/09/2022 03:51, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > So help me understand: what are you working on where a user expects > fine-grained font rendering consistency on multiple OSes? What do > these apps do? > One example that (almost) applied for me was where the target display is not an OS, and indeed the viewer doesn't think they are looking at a 'computer', e.g. an information display in a museum. I started doing something like this for a local organisation, but their funding never materialized. But while talking about it, they had no idea whether they'd use Macs or PCs or most likely both, and  they expected it to look the same regardless, and they wanted the content creator (who would typically only have one of the platforms to try it out on) to be able to get a good idea of how things would look. Alex. From cubist at aol.com Tue Sep 13 20:14:30 2022 From: cubist at aol.com (Quentin Long) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 00:14:30 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Standardize Font Appearance References: <659535550.1842732.1663114470856.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <659535550.1842732.1663114470856@mail.yahoo.com> sez Richard Gaskin: > So help me understand: what are you working on where a user expects > fine-grained font rendering consistency on multiple OSes? What do these > apps do?> > Do your users switch OSes during a session, or work on Windows by day > and Mac at night?  How many also use Linux in that multi-OS workflow? For me, it was mostly a matter of two questions. First: Wouldn't it be nice *if* we could somehow do stuff with fonts and just have them *be* identical cross-platform? My answer: Yes, that *is* technically possible— Second: Exactly how big of a hassle *would* it be to Just Have Fonts Identical Cross-Platform? My answer: —but good god, it's *so* much of a fucking PITA that I can't imagine why anyone would *bother*. I'm rather an odd duck, in that I don't write code for a living; I don't even have any financial interests which are dependent on my being able to whip up code on schedule/deadline. So I suspect I may have summat more freedom to fart around and experiment than do the *real* code jockeys hereabouts. As well, the only user *I* have to worry about is *me*, which renders lots of issues, er, *non*-issues, as far as I'm concerned. "Bewitched" + "Charlie's Angels" - Charlie = "At Arm's Length"Read the webcomic at [ http://www.atarmslength.net ]!If you like "At Arm's Length", support it at [ http://www.patreon.com/DarkwingDude ]. From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Tue Sep 13 22:19:12 2022 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 12:19:12 +1000 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance Message-ID: I agree Richard text management is a lot better than it used to be but problems remain. Text strings on Windows standalones used to be longer than on Mac. It was a painful process to find a label which had been clipped in Windows, fix it in the Mac IDE, compile, copy to a Windows box, only to find another label that hadn’t been supplied with enough padding so back the drawing board. If you were developing on Windows you didn’t see this problem, since Mac strings were shorter. I am pretty sure this problem has gone away, strings rendered in a TrueType font on Mac and Windows now have the same length. [Was this really a fix in LC, or a change in the Windows 10 font engine? If the LC team did it I am lost in admiration, a fantastic piece of work! I thought LC just left it to the operating system to draw the text.] On Linux however the problem remains, strings can be longer or shorter than on the other platforms. Vertical placement is the remaining problem: strings in Windows typically appear 2 or 3 pixels below the Mac equivalent. Mostly this is a trivial problem. But it can cause havoc if your interface has closely packed items. I offer the following fable as a demonstration. I am working on a Mac, designing an app for deployment on Mac and Windows. I select a stock-standard label object, drawn as a box with a border thickness 1 pixel. If I leave the default font to (Message) then the fonts used will be different on the two platforms, and I don’t want that. I have a fondness for smallish 12pt labels and Times New Roman font. Shouldn’t be a problem since Times New Roman exists on Windows (not on Linux of course). They won’t look *exactly* the same because the device resolutions and antaliasing algorithms are different etc, but only a perfectionist would care, and I know the text won’t be clipped because the lengths are same (not on Linux of course, even if I instal Time New Roman) Hmm, the text, which was nicely vertically centered in its box, has moved up a bit, I wonder why? Easily fixed, just set the top margin to 9, yes that is just right. Now I need a text field next to my label, with the baseline of the text aligned with the label text. But the font for this field has to be different, say Arial 36pt (Arial is course is installed on Windows. Not on Linux of course.). Gee, the text which was pretty much aligned is now way out of kilter. There is no IDE command to align text, but easily fixed, just move the field up a bit. Finally I want to draw a red line just under the two text strings, at the point where LC would draw text baselines. You can see screen grabs of the resulting Mac and Windows standalones at https://www.dropbox.com/s/v2hzwe159ep6nep/My%20beautiful%20app%20on%20Mac.png?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/wr2limdozwob9v7/My%20beautiful%20app%20on%20Windows.png?dl=0 Or you can read the reviews from the influential Good Design Now!!!!! magazine Mac review: Everything looks fine. Simple, boring interface. -1 for the retro box and -1 for mixing fonts. 3 stars. Windows review: Wow! Quirky unbalanced placing of the label in its box. Fashionable haphazard alignment of text. And an ultramodern red line slashing through the text. An (unintended) brilliancy. 5 stars. (But if that red line had been a more substantial object, text would have been clipped, 0 stars.) Neville From bobcole at earthlink.net Wed Sep 14 09:50:01 2022 From: bobcole at earthlink.net (Bob Cole) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 09:50:01 -0400 Subject: System Time Zone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3BBFBB65-523B-457D-8555-D63F161443BE@earthlink.net> Just for the sake of completeness, there is a way to get the time zone with AppleScript but it requires Administrator Privileges. The MacOS pops up a request to allow the “do as AppleScript” script to access the systemsetup function. That manual step will interfere with the flow of the program. Create a field “Statements” with this AppleScript: do shell script "/usr/sbin/systemsetup -gettimezone" with administrator privileges and put the following code in the script of a button: on mouseUp do field "Statements" as "AppleScript" put the result into tResult set the itemDelimiter to space delete word 1 to 2 in tResult delete the last char of tResult put tResult into message box end request Tested in two time zones with these results: America/Chicago America/New_York Bob > It's the, "America/Los_Angeles" bit I am trying to find a way to grok. From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Sep 14 11:09:00 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 17:09:00 +0200 Subject: System Time Zone In-Reply-To: <3BBFBB65-523B-457D-8555-D63F161443BE@earthlink.net> References: <3BBFBB65-523B-457D-8555-D63F161443BE@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <0A7567C7-6EF4-449A-B002-5B402377583F@m-r-d.de> Does your app has preferences the user can enter? Why not allow him to enter also the sudo password? You could then use that to execute the following shell command: put shell("echo | sudo -S /usr/sbin/systemsetup -gettimezone") replace with the password in preferences. No need to use Applescript. Regards, Matthias > Am 14.09.2022 um 15:50 schrieb Bob Cole via use-livecode : > > Just for the sake of completeness, there is a way to get the time zone with AppleScript but it requires Administrator Privileges. The MacOS pops up a request to allow the “do as AppleScript” script to access the systemsetup function. That manual step will interfere with the flow of the program. > > Create a field “Statements” with this AppleScript: > > do shell script "/usr/sbin/systemsetup -gettimezone" with administrator privileges > > and put the following code in the script of a button: > > on mouseUp > do field "Statements" as "AppleScript" > put the result into tResult > set the itemDelimiter to space > delete word 1 to 2 in tResult > delete the last char of tResult > put tResult into message box > end request > > Tested in two time zones with these results: > America/Chicago > America/New_York > > Bob > >> It's the, "America/Los_Angeles" bit I am trying to find a way to grok. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Sep 14 11:21:16 2022 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 18:21:16 +0300 Subject: System Time Zone In-Reply-To: <0A7567C7-6EF4-449A-B002-5B402377583F@m-r-d.de> References: <3BBFBB65-523B-457D-8555-D63F161443BE@earthlink.net> <0A7567C7-6EF4-449A-B002-5B402377583F@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <38deebe3-492f-7377-2f52-2c9b16411820@gmail.com> That seems a bit unnecessary as 'internet date' produces a format that includes the GMT offset. So when I write this in the messageBox:  put the internet date I get: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 18:19:18 +0300 and, obviously, from the +0300 it is dead easy to work out my system time zone. Love, Richmond. On 14.09.22 18:09, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > Does your app has preferences the user can enter? Why not allow him to enter also the sudo password? > You could then use that to execute the following shell command: > > put shell("echo | sudo -S /usr/sbin/systemsetup -gettimezone") > > replace with the password in preferences. No need to use Applescript. > > Regards, > Matthias > > > >> Am 14.09.2022 um 15:50 schrieb Bob Cole via use-livecode : >> >> Just for the sake of completeness, there is a way to get the time zone with AppleScript but it requires Administrator Privileges. The MacOS pops up a request to allow the do as AppleScript script to access the systemsetup function. That manual step will interfere with the flow of the program. >> >> Create a field Statements with this AppleScript: >> >> do shell script "/usr/sbin/systemsetup -gettimezone" with administrator privileges >> >> and put the following code in the script of a button: >> >> on mouseUp >> do field "Statements" as "AppleScript" >> put the result into tResult >> set the itemDelimiter to space >> delete word 1 to 2 in tResult >> delete the last char of tResult >> put tResult into message box >> end request >> >> Tested in two time zones with these results: >> America/Chicago >> America/New_York >> >> Bob >> >>> It's the, "America/Los_Angeles" bit I am trying to find a way to grok. >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Sep 14 11:35:53 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 15:35:53 +0000 Subject: System Time Zone In-Reply-To: <38deebe3-492f-7377-2f52-2c9b16411820@gmail.com> References: <3BBFBB65-523B-457D-8555-D63F161443BE@earthlink.net> <0A7567C7-6EF4-449A-B002-5B402377583F@m-r-d.de> <38deebe3-492f-7377-2f52-2c9b16411820@gmail.com> Message-ID: It's not dead easy from the perspective of iCalendar syntax. Zones are defined by text strings. I will need a lookup table for that. Bob S On Sep 14, 2022, at 08:21 , Richmond via use-livecode > wrote: That seems a bit unnecessary as 'internet date' produces a format that includes the GMT offset. So when I write this in the messageBox: put the internet date I get: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 18:19:18 +0300 and, obviously, from the +0300 it is dead easy to work out my system time zone. Love, Richmond. From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Sep 14 11:38:33 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 17:38:33 +0200 Subject: System Time Zone In-Reply-To: <38deebe3-492f-7377-2f52-2c9b16411820@gmail.com> References: <3BBFBB65-523B-457D-8555-D63F161443BE@earthlink.net> <0A7567C7-6EF4-449A-B002-5B402377583F@m-r-d.de> <38deebe3-492f-7377-2f52-2c9b16411820@gmail.com> Message-ID: The original poster does not want to have the offset, but the time zone country/city and he already had a solution with apple script. I provided a solution just with the shell function. > Am 14.09.2022 um 17:21 schrieb Richmond via use-livecode : > > That seems a bit unnecessary as 'internet date' produces a format that includes the GMT offset. > > So when I write this in the messageBox: put the internet date > > I get: > > Wed, 14 Sep 2022 18:19:18 +0300 > > and, obviously, from the +0300 it is dead easy to work out > > my system time zone. > > Love, Richmond. > > > > > On 14.09.22 18:09, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: >> Does your app has preferences the user can enter? Why not allow him to enter also the sudo password? >> You could then use that to execute the following shell command: >> >> put shell("echo | sudo -S /usr/sbin/systemsetup -gettimezone") >> >> replace with the password in preferences. No need to use Applescript. >> >> Regards, >> Matthias >> >> >> >>> Am 14.09.2022 um 15:50 schrieb Bob Cole via use-livecode : >>> >>> Just for the sake of completeness, there is a way to get the time zone with AppleScript but it requires Administrator Privileges. The MacOS pops up a request to allow the “do as AppleScript” script to access the systemsetup function. That manual step will interfere with the flow of the program. >>> >>> Create a field “Statements” with this AppleScript: >>> >>> do shell script "/usr/sbin/systemsetup -gettimezone" with administrator privileges >>> >>> and put the following code in the script of a button: >>> >>> on mouseUp >>> do field "Statements" as "AppleScript" >>> put the result into tResult >>> set the itemDelimiter to space >>> delete word 1 to 2 in tResult >>> delete the last char of tResult >>> put tResult into message box >>> end request >>> >>> Tested in two time zones with these results: >>> America/Chicago >>> America/New_York >>> >>> Bob >>> >>>> It's the, "America/Los_Angeles" bit I am trying to find a way to grok. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Sep 14 11:40:01 2022 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 18:40:01 +0300 Subject: System Time Zone In-Reply-To: References: <3BBFBB65-523B-457D-8555-D63F161443BE@earthlink.net> <0A7567C7-6EF4-449A-B002-5B402377583F@m-r-d.de> <38deebe3-492f-7377-2f52-2c9b16411820@gmail.com> Message-ID: <129338b5-cd95-4cf9-00d1-7a9812a5f9d9@gmail.com> Ah: sorry, I had no idea (having come late to the party) that you were wanting to interact with iCal. That does look like a bit of a headache: https://icalendar.org/iCalendar-RFC-5545/3-2-19-time-zone-identifier.html Richmond. On 14.09.22 18:35, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > It's not dead easy from the perspective of iCalendar syntax. Zones are defined by text strings. I will need a lookup table for that. > > Bob S > > > On Sep 14, 2022, at 08:21 , Richmond via use-livecode > wrote: > > That seems a bit unnecessary as 'internet date' produces a format that includes the GMT offset. > > So when I write this in the messageBox: put the internet date > > I get: > > Wed, 14 Sep 2022 18:19:18 +0300 > > and, obviously, from the +0300 it is dead easy to work out > > my system time zone. > > Love, Richmond. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Sep 14 11:59:00 2022 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 18:59:00 +0300 Subject: System Time Zone In-Reply-To: References: <3BBFBB65-523B-457D-8555-D63F161443BE@earthlink.net> <0A7567C7-6EF4-449A-B002-5B402377583F@m-r-d.de> <38deebe3-492f-7377-2f52-2c9b16411820@gmail.com> Message-ID: I am simply trying to present a solution that works: 1. 100% in LiveCode. 2. 100% cross-platform. Richmond. On 14.09.22 18:38, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > The original poster does not want to have the offset, but the time zone country/city and he already had a solution with apple script. > I provided a solution just with the shell function. > > >> Am 14.09.2022 um 17:21 schrieb Richmond via use-livecode : >> >> That seems a bit unnecessary as 'internet date' produces a format that includes the GMT offset. >> >> So when I write this in the messageBox: put the internet date >> >> I get: >> >> Wed, 14 Sep 2022 18:19:18 +0300 >> >> and, obviously, from the +0300 it is dead easy to work out >> >> my system time zone. >> >> Love, Richmond. >> >> >> >> >> On 14.09.22 18:09, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: >>> Does your app has preferences the user can enter? Why not allow him to enter also the sudo password? >>> You could then use that to execute the following shell command: >>> >>> put shell("echo | sudo -S /usr/sbin/systemsetup -gettimezone") >>> >>> replace with the password in preferences. No need to use Applescript. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Matthias >>> >>> >>> >>>> Am 14.09.2022 um 15:50 schrieb Bob Cole via use-livecode : >>>> >>>> Just for the sake of completeness, there is a way to get the time zone with AppleScript but it requires Administrator Privileges. The MacOS pops up a request to allow the do as AppleScript script to access the systemsetup function. That manual step will interfere with the flow of the program. >>>> >>>> Create a field Statements with this AppleScript: >>>> >>>> do shell script "/usr/sbin/systemsetup -gettimezone" with administrator privileges >>>> >>>> and put the following code in the script of a button: >>>> >>>> on mouseUp >>>> do field "Statements" as "AppleScript" >>>> put the result into tResult >>>> set the itemDelimiter to space >>>> delete word 1 to 2 in tResult >>>> delete the last char of tResult >>>> put tResult into message box >>>> end request >>>> >>>> Tested in two time zones with these results: >>>> America/Chicago >>>> America/New_York >>>> >>>> Bob >>>> >>>>> It's the, "America/Los_Angeles" bit I am trying to find a way to grok. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Sep 14 12:01:40 2022 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 19:01:40 +0300 Subject: System Time Zone In-Reply-To: References: <3BBFBB65-523B-457D-8555-D63F161443BE@earthlink.net> <0A7567C7-6EF4-449A-B002-5B402377583F@m-r-d.de> <38deebe3-492f-7377-2f52-2c9b16411820@gmail.com> Message-ID: From an offset from GMT it is easy enough with this: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/88/World_Time_Zones_Map.png to run up a listField with timezones and their countries as a sort of ad-hoc lookup table. On 14.09.22 18:38, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > The original poster does not want to have the offset, but the time zone country/city and he already had a solution with apple script. > I provided a solution just with the shell function. > > >> Am 14.09.2022 um 17:21 schrieb Richmond via use-livecode : >> >> That seems a bit unnecessary as 'internet date' produces a format that includes the GMT offset. >> >> So when I write this in the messageBox: put the internet date >> >> I get: >> >> Wed, 14 Sep 2022 18:19:18 +0300 >> >> and, obviously, from the +0300 it is dead easy to work out >> >> my system time zone. >> >> Love, Richmond. >> >> >> >> >> On 14.09.22 18:09, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: >>> Does your app has preferences the user can enter? Why not allow him to enter also the sudo password? >>> You could then use that to execute the following shell command: >>> >>> put shell("echo | sudo -S /usr/sbin/systemsetup -gettimezone") >>> >>> replace with the password in preferences. No need to use Applescript. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Matthias >>> >>> >>> >>>> Am 14.09.2022 um 15:50 schrieb Bob Cole via use-livecode : >>>> >>>> Just for the sake of completeness, there is a way to get the time zone with AppleScript but it requires Administrator Privileges. The MacOS pops up a request to allow the do as AppleScript script to access the systemsetup function. That manual step will interfere with the flow of the program. >>>> >>>> Create a field Statements with this AppleScript: >>>> >>>> do shell script "/usr/sbin/systemsetup -gettimezone" with administrator privileges >>>> >>>> and put the following code in the script of a button: >>>> >>>> on mouseUp >>>> do field "Statements" as "AppleScript" >>>> put the result into tResult >>>> set the itemDelimiter to space >>>> delete word 1 to 2 in tResult >>>> delete the last char of tResult >>>> put tResult into message box >>>> end request >>>> >>>> Tested in two time zones with these results: >>>> America/Chicago >>>> America/New_York >>>> >>>> Bob >>>> >>>>> It's the, "America/Los_Angeles" bit I am trying to find a way to grok. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Sep 14 12:43:22 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 11:43:22 -0500 Subject: System Time Zone In-Reply-To: References: <3BBFBB65-523B-457D-8555-D63F161443BE@earthlink.net> <0A7567C7-6EF4-449A-B002-5B402377583F@m-r-d.de> <38deebe3-492f-7377-2f52-2c9b16411820@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1833ce23810.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> That was my first thought too and I (erroneously) suggested the internet "time", which should have been "date". I found a ready-made lookup list and began experimenting. No go. You have to know whether the area is on daylight savings time because the offset changes. You also need to know the location because cities in the same zone vary, and Apple's format requires a specific city location reference, so that would be a second lookup. And the OP doesn't want a lookup list anyway. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On September 14, 2022 11:03:40 AM Richmond via use-livecode wrote: > From an offset from GMT it is easy enough with this: > > https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/88/World_Time_Zones_Map.png > > to run up a listField with timezones and their countries as a sort of > ad-hoc lookup table. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Sep 14 13:20:39 2022 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 20:20:39 +0300 Subject: System Time Zone In-Reply-To: References: <3BBFBB65-523B-457D-8555-D63F161443BE@earthlink.net> <0A7567C7-6EF4-449A-B002-5B402377583F@m-r-d.de> <38deebe3-492f-7377-2f52-2c9b16411820@gmail.com> Message-ID: https://use-livecode.runrev.narkive.com/PhNgjt9Q/time-problems-with-daylight-saving On 14.09.22 19:01, Richmond wrote: > From an offset from GMT it is easy enough with this: > > https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/88/World_Time_Zones_Map.png > > > to run up a listField with timezones and their countries as a sort of > ad-hoc lookup table. > > On 14.09.22 18:38, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: >> The original poster does not want to have the offset, but the time >> zone country/city and he already had a solution with apple script. >> I provided a solution just with the shell function. >> >> >>> Am 14.09.2022 um 17:21 schrieb Richmond via use-livecode >>> : >>> >>> That seems a bit unnecessary as 'internet date' produces a format >>> that includes the GMT offset. >>> >>> So when I write this in the messageBox:  put the internet date >>> >>> I get: >>> >>> Wed, 14 Sep 2022 18:19:18 +0300 >>> >>> and, obviously, from the +0300 it is dead easy to work out >>> >>> my system time zone. >>> >>> Love, Richmond. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 14.09.22 18:09, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: >>>> Does your app has preferences the user can enter? Why not allow him >>>> to enter also the sudo password? >>>> You could then use that to execute the following shell command: >>>> >>>> put shell("echo | sudo -S /usr/sbin/systemsetup >>>> -gettimezone") >>>> >>>> replace with the password in preferences. No need to use >>>> Applescript. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Matthias >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Am 14.09.2022 um 15:50 schrieb Bob Cole via use-livecode >>>>> : >>>>> >>>>> Just for the sake of completeness, there is a way to get the time >>>>> zone with AppleScript but it requires Administrator Privileges. >>>>> The MacOS pops up a request to allow the do as AppleScript >>>>> script to access the systemsetup function. That manual step will >>>>> interfere with the flow of the program. >>>>> >>>>> Create a field Statements with this AppleScript: >>>>> >>>>> do shell script "/usr/sbin/systemsetup -gettimezone" with >>>>> administrator privileges >>>>> >>>>> and put the following code in the script of a button: >>>>> >>>>> on mouseUp >>>>>    do field "Statements" as "AppleScript" >>>>>    put the result into tResult >>>>>    set the itemDelimiter to space >>>>>    delete word 1 to 2 in tResult >>>>>    delete the last char of tResult >>>>>    put tResult into message box >>>>> end request >>>>> >>>>> Tested in two time zones with these results: >>>>> America/Chicago >>>>> America/New_York >>>>> >>>>> Bob >>>>> >>>>>> It's the, "America/Los_Angeles" bit I am trying to find a way to >>>>>> grok. >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Sep 14 13:42:06 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 10:42:06 -0700 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Neville wrote: > You can see screen grabs of the resulting Mac and Windows standalones > at > https://www.dropbox.com/s/v2hzwe159ep6nep/My%20beautiful%20app%20on%20Mac.png?dl=0 > > https://www.dropbox.com/s/wr2limdozwob9v7/My%20beautiful%20app%20on%20Windows.png?dl=0 Thank you for the screen shots. If a picture is normally worth a thousand words, in discussions of visual details they're worth a million. :) I did a quick search for "font baseline difference mac windows" on DuckDuckGo and found several discussions across a great many tools around this issue of vertical drift, e.g.: https://community.adobe.com/t5/adobe-xd-discussions/absolutely-different-font-rendering-on-mac-and-windows/m-p/11070914 https://stackoverflow.com/questions/11726442/font-rendering-line-height-issue-on-mac-pc-outside-of-element https://community.adobe.com/t5/adobe-xd-discussions/google-font-and-adobe-font-line-height-discrepancies/m-p/10941118#M24073 The last two may be especially interesting, as commenters suggest using Google fonts for common faces sometimes yield better results than fonts from other foundries, with apparently more detail in the font code to account for fractional ascenders/descenders. A couple of suggestions also point to software tools like FontForg or the web app Transfonter.org to make adjustments to the font metrics. And of course with web devs we see some conditional CSS to account for the difference, similar to what you're doing with LC margin properties. It would be helpful to get Mark Waddingham's view on this, since of course he knows the interaction between LC's rendering engine and the underlying text renderers in the OS better than anyone. But given how widespread the issue is across some of the most heavily-financed apps in the world (Microsoft, Adobe, web browsers), my hunch aligns with the comments in those discussions linked to above: variances in both OS renderers and in the code of the font files themselves would make it perhaps cost-prohibitive to attempt to address all possible combinations. If you find that using an embedded font from Google solves it, or at least reduces it, please let us know. Beyond that, where fine-tuning is needed for non-HIG GUIs it may be that carefully-crafted margin adjustments are as good as we get. Small comfort, but such tediousness would still leave us no worse off than pro designers using Adobe tools or web browsers. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From jbv at souslelogo.com Wed Sep 14 14:58:00 2022 From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 14:58:00 -0400 Subject: [semi-OT] PDF on the fly Message-ID: Hi list, I have a web site on which end users can select several options, and then click a button "show PDF", and a pdf containing various contents from a remote DB with a sophisticated layout is built server side in a second and automatically downloaded. The link of the button is something like : https://domain.com/showPDF.lc?a=parameters and the script sets the header of the pdf file as follows : put header "Content-Type: application/pdf" put header "Content-Length: " & number of chars of myPDF put header "Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=" "e& myFileName "e This has been working fine for years, and still works on Chrome and FF, but apparently the latest versions of Safari don't accept it: the file is built and the download starts but quickly stalls and that's it. And no error message van be found in the console. As an alternative solution, I've been thinking of building the pdf server side and writing it in a temporary folder, and then on the web page displaying a prompt with a button containing the actual url of the file. But that's not very elegant IMHO. What other options do I have ? Thank you in advance. Best, jbv From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Wed Sep 14 15:14:49 2022 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 15:14:49 -0400 Subject: [semi-OT] PDF on the fly In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000001d8c86e$4598cff0$d0ca6fd0$@net> How fortuitous... I just ran into this while doing JavaScript xhttp network requests to LC Server on Safari only. I just updated from LC Server 9.5.1. to 9.6.6. I saw it in Safari in iOS. Chrome in iOS worked OK. I went back to 9.5.1 and everything started working again in Safari. Do we possibly have the same problem? This might not be OT at all. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of jbv via use-livecode Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2022 2:58 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: jbv at souslelogo.com Subject: [semi-OT] PDF on the fly Hi list, I have a web site on which end users can select several options, and then click a button "show PDF", and a pdf containing various contents from a remote DB with a sophisticated layout is built server side in a second and automatically downloaded. The link of the button is something like : https://domain.com/showPDF.lc?a=parameters and the script sets the header of the pdf file as follows : put header "Content-Type: application/pdf" put header "Content-Length: " & number of chars of myPDF put header "Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=" "e& myFileName "e This has been working fine for years, and still works on Chrome and FF, but apparently the latest versions of Safari don't accept it: the file is built and the download starts but quickly stalls and that's it. And no error message van be found in the console. As an alternative solution, I've been thinking of building the pdf server side and writing it in a temporary folder, and then on the web page displaying a prompt with a button containing the actual url of the file. But that's not very elegant IMHO. What other options do I have ? Thank you in advance. Best, jbv _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Sep 14 15:22:08 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 21:22:08 +0200 Subject: [semi-OT] PDF on the fly In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2B42490C-6D53-4AE8-9981-48457436D78F@m-r-d.de> I just checked here with a script i am using for years to provide the download of a csv file and it still works with Version 15.6 (17613.3.9.1.5). Is that the newest version? This is my script: put header "Content-Type: application/text" put header "Content-Length:" & the number of chars of tFileContent put new header "Content-Disposition: attachment; FileName=" & tFileName put URL("file:" & tFileContent) The only difference i see is, that i have put new header instead of put header > Am 14.09.2022 um 20:58 schrieb jbv via use-livecode : > > Hi list, > > I have a web site on which end users can select several options, > and then click a button "show PDF", and a pdf containing various > contents from a remote DB with a sophisticated layout is built > server side in a second and automatically downloaded. > > The link of the button is something like : > https://domain.com/showPDF.lc?a=parameters > and the script sets the header of the pdf file as follows : > put header "Content-Type: application/pdf" > put header "Content-Length: " & number of chars of myPDF > put header "Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=" "e& myFileName "e > > This has been working fine for years, and still works on Chrome > and FF, but apparently the latest versions of Safari don't accept it: > the file is built and the download starts but quickly stalls and that's it. > And no error message van be found in the console. > > As an alternative solution, I've been thinking of building the pdf server side > and writing it in a temporary folder, and then on the web page displaying a > prompt with a button containing the actual url of the file. But that's not > very elegant IMHO. > > What other options do I have ? > Thank you in advance. > > Best, > jbv > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Sep 14 15:24:12 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 21:24:12 +0200 Subject: [semi-OT] PDF on the fly In-Reply-To: <2B42490C-6D53-4AE8-9981-48457436D78F@m-r-d.de> References: <2B42490C-6D53-4AE8-9981-48457436D78F@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <0164FA5A-AF37-4D4E-B74D-1C8062B0A083@m-r-d.de> I am running 9.6.5 on the server where i tested the script. > Am 14.09.2022 um 21:22 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode : > > I just checked here with a script i am using for years to provide the download of a csv file and it still works with Version 15.6 (17613.3.9.1.5). > Is that the newest version? > > This is my script: > > put header "Content-Type: application/text" > put header "Content-Length:" & the number of chars of tFileContent > put new header "Content-Disposition: attachment; FileName=" & tFileName > put URL("file:" & tFileContent) > > The only difference i see is, that i have put new header instead of put header > > > > > > >> Am 14.09.2022 um 20:58 schrieb jbv via use-livecode : >> >> Hi list, >> >> I have a web site on which end users can select several options, >> and then click a button "show PDF", and a pdf containing various >> contents from a remote DB with a sophisticated layout is built >> server side in a second and automatically downloaded. >> >> The link of the button is something like : >> https://domain.com/showPDF.lc?a=parameters >> and the script sets the header of the pdf file as follows : >> put header "Content-Type: application/pdf" >> put header "Content-Length: " & number of chars of myPDF >> put header "Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=" "e& myFileName "e >> >> This has been working fine for years, and still works on Chrome >> and FF, but apparently the latest versions of Safari don't accept it: >> the file is built and the download starts but quickly stalls and that's it. >> And no error message van be found in the console. >> >> As an alternative solution, I've been thinking of building the pdf server side >> and writing it in a temporary folder, and then on the web page displaying a >> prompt with a button containing the actual url of the file. But that's not >> very elegant IMHO. >> >> What other options do I have ? >> Thank you in advance. >> >> Best, >> jbv >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jbv at souslelogo.com Wed Sep 14 16:44:31 2022 From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 16:44:31 -0400 Subject: [semi-OT] PDF on the fly In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi guys, Thank you for your answers. No matter what I try, the problem remains the same on Safari. My LC script runs on my on-rev account, and it uses LC 9.6. Could this really be the problem ? Best, jbv From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Sep 14 17:00:33 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 23:00:33 +0200 Subject: [semi-OT] PDF on the fly In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8FB37142-B986-4F60-AF48-671E3A96B270@m-r-d.de> I just tested on quartz.on-rev.com with LC Server 9.6.0. I've created a textfile with a size of 1mb. tested with this script and it worked. I even tested with put header instead of put new header. Which version of Safari do you have? > Am 14.09.2022 um 22:44 schrieb jbv via use-livecode : > > Hi guys, > > Thank you for your answers. > No matter what I try, the problem remains the same on Safari. > My LC script runs on my on-rev account, and it uses LC 9.6. > Could this really be the problem ? > > Best, > jbv > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Sep 14 17:10:43 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 21:10:43 +0000 Subject: System Time Zone In-Reply-To: <1833ce23810.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <3BBFBB65-523B-457D-8555-D63F161443BE@earthlink.net> <0A7567C7-6EF4-449A-B002-5B402377583F@m-r-d.de> <38deebe3-492f-7377-2f52-2c9b16411820@gmail.com> <1833ce23810.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <032D8660-A758-45B1-A272-3F00466A78E4@iotecdigital.com> Well, IDEALLY I would like a way that does not involve a lookup list, but I do not think that is possible. I already downloaded an official list of time zones in the proper format, and their standard and savings time offsets. That should be close enough. Another thing I can do is in a settings pane, offer up a list of time zones and have the user select the correct one before iCalendar support is enabled. Easy enough. Bob S On Sep 14, 2022, at 09:43 , J. Landman Gay via use-livecode > wrote: That was my first thought too and I (erroneously) suggested the internet "time", which should have been "date". I found a ready-made lookup list and began experimenting. No go. You have to know whether the area is on daylight savings time because the offset changes. You also need to know the location because cities in the same zone vary, and Apple's format requires a specific city location reference, so that would be a second lookup. And the OP doesn't want a lookup list anyway. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jbv at souslelogo.com Thu Sep 15 05:36:06 2022 From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2022 05:36:06 -0400 Subject: [semi-OT] PDF on the fly In-Reply-To: <8FB37142-B986-4F60-AF48-671E3A96B270@m-r-d.de> References: <8FB37142-B986-4F60-AF48-671E3A96B270@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: I am using Safari 15.6 (15613.3.9.1.7, 15613) But I finally found the origin of the problem : put header "Content-Length: " & number of chars of myPDF After removing that line from the header, files download and display fine in Safari, as in other browsers. So far I have no rational explanation though. Best, jbv Le 2022-09-14 17:00, matthias rebbe via use-livecode a crit : > I just tested on quartz.on-rev.com with LC > Server 9.6.0. > > I've created a textfile with a size of 1mb. > > tested with this script and it worked. I even tested with put header > instead of put new header. > put header "Content-Type: application/text" > put new header "Content-Disposition: attachment; FileName=" & > "justsomeText.txt" > put URL("binfile:" & "justsomeText.txt") > ?> > > Which version of Safari do you have? > > > >> Am 14.09.2022 um 22:44 schrieb jbv via use-livecode >> : >> >> Hi guys, >> >> Thank you for your answers. >> No matter what I try, the problem remains the same on Safari. >> My LC script runs on my on-rev account, and it uses LC 9.6. >> Could this really be the problem ? >> >> Best, >> jbv >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Thu Sep 15 07:07:04 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2022 13:07:04 +0200 Subject: [semi-OT] PDF on the fly In-Reply-To: References: <8FB37142-B986-4F60-AF48-671E3A96B270@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: That is interesting. I tried here with content-length on on-rev and it works here with Version 15.6 (17613.3.9.1.5) of Safari. At least you've found a solution... > Am 15.09.2022 um 11:36 schrieb jbv via use-livecode : > > I am using Safari 15.6 (15613.3.9.1.7, 15613) > > But I finally found the origin of the problem : > put header "Content-Length: " & number of chars of myPDF > > After removing that line from the header, files download and > display fine in Safari, as in other browsers. > So far I have no rational explanation though. > > Best, > jbv > > Le 2022-09-14 17:00, matthias rebbe via use-livecode a écrit : >> I just tested on quartz.on-rev.com with LC >> Server 9.6.0. >> I've created a textfile with a size of 1mb. >> tested with this script and it worked. I even tested with put header >> instead of put new header. >> > put header "Content-Type: application/text" >> put new header "Content-Disposition: attachment; FileName=" & "justsomeText.txt" >> put URL("binfile:" & "justsomeText.txt") >> ?> >> Which version of Safari do you have? >>> Am 14.09.2022 um 22:44 schrieb jbv via use-livecode : >>> Hi guys, >>> Thank you for your answers. >>> No matter what I try, the problem remains the same on Safari. >>> My LC script runs on my on-rev account, and it uses LC 9.6. >>> Could this really be the problem ? >>> Best, >>> jbv >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu Sep 15 10:44:51 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2022 10:44:51 -0400 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <6AF5BE8C-DC3F-4EA9-8490-BA6DDDD7DD7E@m-r-d.de> <002d01d8c477$3f7e1710$be7a4530$@net> <000d01d8c53c$f3cc6d00$db654700$@net> Message-ID: What's NavRAD? It's a better version of LiveCode's NavBar widget. Why "RAD"? Cos Ralph A DiMola said so, since he added the first two nifty updates to it: * an autoHilite boolean, so you can intercept clicks before the selected icon changes instead of after, and * icon zoom Now it's also got margins. https://github.com/macMikey/LC-NavRad From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Thu Sep 15 11:27:01 2022 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2022 11:27:01 -0400 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <6AF5BE8C-DC3F-4EA9-8490-BA6DDDD7DD7E@m-r-d.de> <002d01d8c477$3f7e1710$be7a4530$@net> <000d01d8c53c$f3cc6d00$db654700$@net> Message-ID: <001a01d8c917$9d2e7d10$d78b7730$@net> Also another new feature is the Icon Fill property. If enabled: 1)If there is no label the icon is enlarged slightly and centered vertically 2) In the PI the label can be deleted without the "New Item" inserted into the label. I did this because among others the social media icons don't need labels. All new features are fully documented. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2022 10:45 AM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Mike Kerner Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual What's NavRAD? It's a better version of LiveCode's NavBar widget. Why "RAD"? Cos Ralph A DiMola said so, since he added the first two nifty updates to it: * an autoHilite boolean, so you can intercept clicks before the selected icon changes instead of after, and * icon zoom Now it's also got margins. https://github.com/macMikey/LC-NavRad _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Thu Sep 15 11:37:31 2022 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2022 11:37:31 -0400 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <6AF5BE8C-DC3F-4EA9-8490-BA6DDDD7DD7E@m-r-d.de> <002d01d8c477$3f7e1710$be7a4530$@net> <000d01d8c53c$f3cc6d00$db654700$@net> Message-ID: <001b01d8c919$14886c80$3d994580$@net> Docs aside... I still think that widgets and lcb is one of best additions to LC. Community collaboration like this will make for better documentation and more new/improved widgets. A robust library of widgets can only help LC to penetrate the market. If only we had these when I started... Shout out to Mike K. for all the help! Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net From alex at tweedly.net Thu Sep 15 18:11:17 2022 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2022 23:11:17 +0100 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <6AF5BE8C-DC3F-4EA9-8490-BA6DDDD7DD7E@m-r-d.de> <002d01d8c477$3f7e1710$be7a4530$@net> <000d01d8c53c$f3cc6d00$db654700$@net> Message-ID: On 15/09/2022 15:44, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > What's NavRAD? It's a better version of LiveCode's NavBar widget. > Why "RAD"? Cos Ralph A DiMola said so, since he added the first two nifty > updates to it: I see the code has an outdated copyright statement, which would (I think) currently mean that any app using it would (potentially) become open-source (GPL). If that;s not the intent, maybe it could be updated ? Currently it says >   Copyright (C) 2015-2022 LiveCode Ltd.icon > >   This file is part of LiveCode. > >   LiveCode is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it > under >   the terms of the GNU General Public License v3 as published by the Free >   Software Foundation. > >   LiveCode is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but > WITHOUT ANY >   WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or >   FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the GNU General Public License >   for more details. > >   You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License >   along with LiveCode.  If not see .  */ Alex. > Copyright (C) 2015-2022 LiveCode Ltd.icon > > > > This file is part of LiveCode. > > > > LiveCode is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it > under > > the terms of the GNU General Public License v3 as published by the Free > > Software Foundation. > > > > LiveCode is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but > WITHOUT ANY > > WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or > > FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the GNU General Public License > > for more details. > > > > You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License > > along with LiveCode. If not see . */ > > From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Sep 15 20:19:36 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2022 19:19:36 -0500 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <6AF5BE8C-DC3F-4EA9-8490-BA6DDDD7DD7E@m-r-d.de> <002d01d8c477$3f7e1710$be7a4530$@net> <000d01d8c53c$f3cc6d00$db654700$@net> Message-ID: <18343aa41d8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Legally the only date that matters is the date of creation. Almost everyone adds the current date as well, and I keep trying to talk my clients out of it but they won't listen. Then I have to keep updating the copyright string, knowing it doesn't matter, but if I don't the app looks old and unsupported. Some time back I wrote a handler that updates the end date to the current year on launch so I don't have to worry about it. A single copyright creation date is valid for the life of the creator plus (in the US) 75 years. Oh well. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On September 15, 2022 5:12:59 PM Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote: > On 15/09/2022 15:44, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: >> What's NavRAD? It's a better version of LiveCode's NavBar widget. >> Why "RAD"? Cos Ralph A DiMola said so, since he added the first two nifty >> updates to it: > > I see the code has an outdated copyright statement, which would (I > think) currently mean that any app using it would (potentially) become > open-source (GPL). If that;s not the intent, maybe it could be updated ? > > Currently it says > >> Copyright (C) 2015-2022 LiveCode Ltd.icon >> >> This file is part of LiveCode. >> >> LiveCode is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it >> under >> the terms of the GNU General Public License v3 as published by the Free >> Software Foundation. >> >> LiveCode is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but >> WITHOUT ANY >> WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or >> FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the GNU General Public License >> for more details. >> >> You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License >> along with LiveCode. If not see . */ > > Alex. > > > >> Copyright (C) 2015-2022 LiveCode Ltd.icon >> >> >> >> This file is part of LiveCode. >> >> >> >> LiveCode is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it >> under >> >> the terms of the GNU General Public License v3 as published by the Free >> >> Software Foundation. >> >> >> >> LiveCode is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but >> WITHOUT ANY >> >> WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or >> >> FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the GNU General Public License >> >> for more details. >> >> >> >> You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License >> >> along with LiveCode. If not see . */ >> >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From brahma at hindu.org Thu Sep 15 21:30:10 2022 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2022 01:30:10 +0000 Subject: iOS 16! It will not do landscape! Message-ID: Aloha Everyone Well I was involved in iOS 16. Just yesterday. It downloaded to my phone (iPhone 13, with Version 16.0 – 20A362) . When I did that, none of stacks of my stacks will do landscape! stack “wordpuzzle” on preOpenStack if isMobile() then mobileSetAllowedOrientations "landscape left,landscape right" mobileSetFullScreenRectForOrientations "landscape left,landscape right","0,0,736,414" set the fullscreenmode of this stack to "showAll" -- better for wider screens end if hide grc "blankScreen" setCardCoords "landscape" end preOpenStack stack “view_BrowserLandscape” on preopenstack local tBrowser, tOrientations set the fullscreenmode of this stack to empty put the short name this stack into tBrowser put (tBrowser contains "landscape") into sLandscapeOnly put "landscape left,landscape right" into tOrientations if sLandscapeOnly then put "landscape" into sOrientation else put "portrait,portrait upside down," before tOrientations put "portrait" into sOrientation end if setCardCoords sOrientation if isMobile() then mobileSetAllowedOrientations tOrientations end if resetUI hide grc "blankImage" send "showBrowser" to me in 10 seconds end preopenstack Where is the newest download. https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ LiveCode 9.6.9 RC 1, 10 August 2022 RC 1 Release Notes 10 August 2 Brahmanathaswami And it not there! Did see SivaSiva 1.7.2? It on the iPhone – App Store. Svasti Astu – Be Well Brahmanathaswami Get SivaSiva.app – It free! https://www.himalayanacademy.com/view/sivasiva From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Thu Sep 15 22:27:23 2022 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2022 12:27:23 +1000 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance Message-ID: Thanks Richard for your comments. Interesting to see comments about font drift in a general context The problems is however not fixed if you add Google fonts to your standalone. The problem could probably be fixed (on Mac and Windows anyway) by hacking the fonts to change their metadata tables but that is getting into really deep water, and may even violate copyright. The core of the issue is what I think is a design flaw in the way LC places text when it asks the platform OS to render the string. Experiment 1: Create a standard field. Set the properties to non-3d, draw borders with thickness 1 so we can judge the vertical placement. Type the text “A standard label”. Set the field font to Arial so we can compare the results on Mac and Windows. Result: On the Mac and Windows we get subtly different results. On Windows the capital “A" appears centered in the box; on the Mac the lower case letters “san" appear centered. Which means the Windows string is lower than the Mac string. As an initialisation of the new field it looks OK on both IDEs. But as we have seen we get into trouble when the text uses other fonts or sizes or if it interacts visually with nearby objects. Experiment 2: Now change the font size to 64pt. Result: The text disappears. It is now placed way below the bounding box, and it is a bit of a hassle to get it back into view. That is a terrible user interface. The nicest user experience would be if the newly sized string appeared with the same baseline as the initial string, and that would certainly make alignment of text easier. However, that model wouldn’t quite fit the LC field model with a user-settable top margin, as it would necessitate overriding the top margin. If the top margin is to be honoured, the two obvious choices are to place the text so the top of the capital A appears at the bottom of the top margin (perhaps the Windows viewpoint?) or if the top of the lowercase letters appear at the top margin, allowing cap letters and risers such as h to bleed into the top margin (let us call this the Mac viewpoint). But neither of these two are what actually happens. I can confirm that LC actually places the text (the first line, for a field with fixedLineHeight false - that is another story) so that the baseline is set top margin of the field + fontAscent of the font - 6 pixels below the top of the field. This formula holds precisely over all the fonts and sizes I have tested and on all 3 platforms. It appears what was intended, probably way back in Hypercard when fonts were bitmaps, was to drop the string below the top margin by the height of capitals (the ascent) and then pull back by 6 pixels so that the top of the lowercase x is at the top margin (the Mac viewpoint). It works well enough on the common initial fonts and sizes for fields because 6 is about the difference in letter heights at these sizes. However the fontAscent returned by measureText is quite evidently not the height of the letter A above the baseline, it is more like the maximum font height above the baseline, so the string disappears in Experiment 2. And the two platforms return different values for fontAscent anyway, leading to the alignment problems in Experiment 1. Furthermore that constant 6 is of course grossly wrong for other font sizes. What was meant surely was top margin + x-ascent of the font (Which was possibly computational more expensive bearing in mind various font formats?) It would now be impossible for LC to change how it places text in fields, to either the Mac or Windows viewpoint, because that would break every stack having a text field! What could be done however would be to add a couple of field properties which would enable baselines to be aligned, as I suggested in a previous post. Neville From alex at tweedly.net Fri Sep 16 06:41:16 2022 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2022 11:41:16 +0100 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: <18343aa41d8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <6AF5BE8C-DC3F-4EA9-8490-BA6DDDD7DD7E@m-r-d.de> <002d01d8c477$3f7e1710$be7a4530$@net> <000d01d8c53c$f3cc6d00$db654700$@net> <18343aa41d8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <1fb5963b-7bbb-4215-8c22-a33c565e04dc@tweedly.net> Sorry, I confused things by using the word "outdated". I wasn't referring to the date in the copyright statement, but to the fact that it says "Livecode is free software [...  GPL]", and "this file is part of Livecode", and implications that may have on the license situation for the widget and anyone who uses it in an app. Alex. On 16/09/2022 01:19, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > Legally the only date that matters is the date of creation. Almost > everyone adds the current date as well, and I keep trying to talk my > clients out of it but they won't listen. Then I have to keep updating > the copyright string, knowing it doesn't matter, but if I don't the > app looks old and unsupported. Some time back I wrote a handler that > updates the end date to the current year on launch so I don't have to > worry about it. > > A single copyright creation date is valid for the life of the creator > plus (in the US) 75 years. > > Oh well. > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > On September 15, 2022 5:12:59 PM Alex Tweedly via use-livecode > wrote: > >> On 15/09/2022 15:44, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: >>> What's NavRAD? It's a better version of LiveCode's NavBar widget. >>> Why "RAD"? Cos Ralph A DiMola said so, since he added the first two >>> nifty >>> updates to it: >> >> I see the code has an outdated copyright statement, which would (I >> think) currently mean that any app using it would (potentially) become >> open-source (GPL). If that;s not the intent, maybe it could be updated ? >> >> Currently it says >> >>>   Copyright (C) 2015-2022 LiveCode Ltd.icon >>> >>>   This file is part of LiveCode. >>> >>>   LiveCode is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it >>> under >>>   the terms of the GNU General Public License v3 as published by the >>> Free >>>   Software Foundation. >>> >>>   LiveCode is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but >>> WITHOUT ANY >>>   WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or >>>   FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the GNU General Public License >>>   for more details. >>> >>>   You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License >>>   along with LiveCode.  If not see .  */ >> >> Alex. >> >> >> >>> Copyright (C) 2015-2022 LiveCode Ltd.icon >>> >>> >>> >>>     This file is part of LiveCode. >>> >>> >>> >>>     LiveCode is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it >>> under >>> >>>     the terms of the GNU General Public License v3 as published by >>> the Free >>> >>>     Software Foundation. >>> >>> >>> >>>     LiveCode is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but >>> WITHOUT ANY >>> >>>     WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or >>> >>>     FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the GNU General Public >>> License >>> >>>     for more details. >>> >>> >>> >>>     You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License >>> >>>     along with LiveCode. If not see . */ >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri Sep 16 10:04:35 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2022 10:04:35 -0400 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: <1fb5963b-7bbb-4215-8c22-a33c565e04dc@tweedly.net> References: <6AF5BE8C-DC3F-4EA9-8490-BA6DDDD7DD7E@m-r-d.de> <002d01d8c477$3f7e1710$be7a4530$@net> <000d01d8c53c$f3cc6d00$db654700$@net> <18343aa41d8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <1fb5963b-7bbb-4215-8c22-a33c565e04dc@tweedly.net> Message-ID: By the way, we updated it, again, this morning, because, we're like little kids now that we're starting to crack the code on this thing. It's nothing too exciting, today, but it's better than it was, yesterday, including fixing the copyright header - which was my error. Here's what happened on the copyright: originally Ralph was working on this widget and I was working on it, separately. His version had the OSS copyright text on it (correct). I was intending to just throw the updates at LC and say "Here", so I grabbed the later copyright header to make merging it easier. The code of the widget is exactly the same between the OSS version and the one that's in the newer bundles. Now, I'm more inclined to do it "the right way", so, this morning's version has the original, technically correct, OSS header. That header says Copyright (C) 2015-2016 LiveCode Ltd. This file is part of LiveCode. LiveCode is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License v3 as published by the Free Software Foundation. LiveCode is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the GNU General Public License for more details. You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License along with LiveCode. If not see . From jbv at souslelogo.com Fri Sep 16 10:10:07 2022 From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2022 10:10:07 -0400 Subject: Ignoring accented characters Message-ID: <438ffe4e04dfebdc0411bdfede465504@souslelogo.com> Hi list, Is there a way to ignore accented characters in LC, like in mySQL for instance ? Here's an example : I need these 2 array items below to be considered as 1 single entity : add 1 to myArray["interprtation"] add 1 to myArray["interpretation"] Of course, I can write a function that removes accents, but I was wondering if there was a built-in function in LC to do that, in a similar logic as "set the casesentive to false" for instance. Thanks you in advance. jbv From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri Sep 16 10:45:53 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2022 10:45:53 -0400 Subject: iOS 16! It will not do landscape! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: weird. we've got 16.1 on our ipads. the LC app we're running on them is working fine in landscape. On Thu, Sep 15, 2022 at 9:31 PM Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote: > Aloha Everyone > > Well I was involved in iOS 16. Just yesterday. > > It downloaded to my phone (iPhone 13, with Version 16.0 – 20A362) . When I > did that, none of stacks of my stacks will do landscape! > > stack “wordpuzzle” > > on preOpenStack > > if isMobile() then > > mobileSetAllowedOrientations "landscape left,landscape > right" > > mobileSetFullScreenRectForOrientations "landscape > left,landscape right","0,0,736,414" > > set the fullscreenmode of this stack to "showAll" -- > better for wider screens > > end if > > hide grc "blankScreen" > > setCardCoords "landscape" > > end preOpenStack > > stack “view_BrowserLandscape” > > > > on preopenstack > > local tBrowser, tOrientations > > set the fullscreenmode of this stack to empty > > put the short name this stack into tBrowser > > put (tBrowser contains "landscape") into sLandscapeOnly > > put "landscape left,landscape right" into tOrientations > > if sLandscapeOnly then > > put "landscape" into sOrientation > > else > > put "portrait,portrait upside down," before tOrientations > > put "portrait" into sOrientation > > end if > > setCardCoords sOrientation > > if isMobile() then > > mobileSetAllowedOrientations tOrientations > > end if > > resetUI > > hide grc "blankImage" > > send "showBrowser" to me in 10 seconds > > end preopenstack > > Where is the newest download. > > https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ > > LiveCode 9.6.9 RC 1, 10 August 2022 > > RC 1 > Release Notes< > https://livecodestatic.com/downloads/livecode/9_6_9/LiveCodeNotes-9_6_9_rc_1.pdf > > > 10 August 2 > > > Brahmanathaswami > > > > > And it not there! > > > Did see SivaSiva 1.7.2? It on the iPhone – App Store. > > Svasti Astu – Be Well > Brahmanathaswami > > Get SivaSiva.app – It free! > https://www.himalayanacademy.com/view/sivasiva > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From brian at milby7.com Fri Sep 16 11:01:38 2022 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2022 11:01:38 -0400 Subject: iOS 16! It will not do landscape! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1DBE7123-E9C0-4DF2-B8CC-4B1D3C4F6605@milby7.com> Does your app use a launcher model? SivaSiva has one stack that is the launcher which opens the portal stack (main menu) when then goes to modules. Portrait is set on the launcher and each module has different orientation requirements/settings. Brian Milby brian at milby7.com > On Sep 16, 2022, at 10:47 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > weird. we've got 16.1 on our ipads. the LC app we're running on them is > working fine in landscape. > >> On Thu, Sep 15, 2022 at 9:31 PM Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode >> wrote: >> >> Aloha Everyone >> >> Well I was involved in iOS 16. Just yesterday. >> >> It downloaded to my phone (iPhone 13, with Version 16.0 – 20A362) . When I >> did that, none of stacks of my stacks will do landscape! >> >> stack “wordpuzzle” >> >> on preOpenStack >> >> if isMobile() then >> >> mobileSetAllowedOrientations "landscape left,landscape >> right" >> >> mobileSetFullScreenRectForOrientations "landscape >> left,landscape right","0,0,736,414" >> >> set the fullscreenmode of this stack to "showAll" -- >> better for wider screens >> >> end if >> >> hide grc "blankScreen" >> >> setCardCoords "landscape" >> >> end preOpenStack >> >> stack “view_BrowserLandscape” >> >> >> >> on preopenstack >> >> local tBrowser, tOrientations >> >> set the fullscreenmode of this stack to empty >> >> put the short name this stack into tBrowser >> >> put (tBrowser contains "landscape") into sLandscapeOnly >> >> put "landscape left,landscape right" into tOrientations >> >> if sLandscapeOnly then >> >> put "landscape" into sOrientation >> >> else >> >> put "portrait,portrait upside down," before tOrientations >> >> put "portrait" into sOrientation >> >> end if >> >> setCardCoords sOrientation >> >> if isMobile() then >> >> mobileSetAllowedOrientations tOrientations >> >> end if >> >> resetUI >> >> hide grc "blankImage" >> >> send "showBrowser" to me in 10 seconds >> >> end preopenstack >> >> Where is the newest download. >> >> https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ >> >> LiveCode 9.6.9 RC 1, 10 August 2022 >> >> RC 1 >> Release Notes< >> https://livecodestatic.com/downloads/livecode/9_6_9/LiveCodeNotes-9_6_9_rc_1.pdf >>> >> 10 August 2 >> >> >> Brahmanathaswami >> >> >> >> >> And it not there! >> >> >> Did see SivaSiva 1.7.2? It on the iPhone – App Store. >> >> Svasti Astu – Be Well >> Brahmanathaswami >> >> Get SivaSiva.app – It free! >> https://www.himalayanacademy.com/view/sivasiva >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From harrison at all-auctions.com Fri Sep 16 11:10:35 2022 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2022 11:10:35 -0400 Subject: iOS 16! It will not do landscape! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Perhaps the screen lock is turned on so it only shows stuff in portrait mode? > On Sep 16, 2022, at 10:45 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > weird. we've got 16.1 on our ipads. the LC app we're running on them is > working fine in landscape. > > On Thu, Sep 15, 2022 at 9:31 PM Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode > wrote: > >> Aloha Everyone >> >> Well I was involved in iOS 16. Just yesterday. >> >> It downloaded to my phone (iPhone 13, with Version 16.0 – 20A362) . When I >> did that, none of stacks of my stacks will do landscape! >> >> stack “wordpuzzle” >> >> on preOpenStack >> >> if isMobile() then >> >> mobileSetAllowedOrientations "landscape left,landscape >> right" >> >> mobileSetFullScreenRectForOrientations "landscape >> left,landscape right","0,0,736,414" >> >> set the fullscreenmode of this stack to "showAll" -- >> better for wider screens >> >> end if >> >> hide grc "blankScreen" >> >> setCardCoords "landscape" >> >> end preOpenStack >> >> stack “view_BrowserLandscape” >> >> >> >> on preopenstack >> >> local tBrowser, tOrientations >> >> set the fullscreenmode of this stack to empty >> >> put the short name this stack into tBrowser >> >> put (tBrowser contains "landscape") into sLandscapeOnly >> >> put "landscape left,landscape right" into tOrientations >> >> if sLandscapeOnly then >> >> put "landscape" into sOrientation >> >> else >> >> put "portrait,portrait upside down," before tOrientations >> >> put "portrait" into sOrientation >> >> end if >> >> setCardCoords sOrientation >> >> if isMobile() then >> >> mobileSetAllowedOrientations tOrientations >> >> end if >> >> resetUI >> >> hide grc "blankImage" >> >> send "showBrowser" to me in 10 seconds >> >> end preopenstack >> >> Where is the newest download. >> >> https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ >> >> LiveCode 9.6.9 RC 1, 10 August 2022 >> >> RC 1 >> Release Notes< >> https://livecodestatic.com/downloads/livecode/9_6_9/LiveCodeNotes-9_6_9_rc_1.pdf >>> >> 10 August 2 >> >> >> Brahmanathaswami >> >> >> >> >> And it not there! >> >> >> Did see SivaSiva 1.7.2? It on the iPhone – App Store. >> >> Svasti Astu – Be Well >> Brahmanathaswami >> >> Get SivaSiva.app – It free! >> https://www.himalayanacademy.com/view/sivasiva >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From brian at milby7.com Fri Sep 16 11:27:52 2022 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2022 11:27:52 -0400 Subject: iOS 16! It will not do landscape! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2C81F73C-9BD6-407E-A142-B47945B3CB6B@milby7.com> It is not an orientation lock issue. I’ve submitted a bug report but didn’t have iOS 16 loaded yet and have not had a chance to build some test apps to narrow down the details of the issue. Apple did make changes in iOS 16 with how apps request a specific orientation. Brian Milby brian at milby7.com > On Sep 16, 2022, at 11:11 AM, harrison--- via use-livecode wrote: > > Perhaps the screen lock is turned on so it only shows stuff in portrait mode? > >> On Sep 16, 2022, at 10:45 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: >> >> weird. we've got 16.1 on our ipads. the LC app we're running on them is >> working fine in landscape. >> >>> On Thu, Sep 15, 2022 at 9:31 PM Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode >>> wrote: >>> >>> Aloha Everyone >>> >>> Well I was involved in iOS 16. Just yesterday. >>> >>> It downloaded to my phone (iPhone 13, with Version 16.0 – 20A362) . When I >>> did that, none of stacks of my stacks will do landscape! >>> >>> stack “wordpuzzle” >>> >>> on preOpenStack >>> >>> if isMobile() then >>> >>> mobileSetAllowedOrientations "landscape left,landscape >>> right" >>> >>> mobileSetFullScreenRectForOrientations "landscape >>> left,landscape right","0,0,736,414" >>> >>> set the fullscreenmode of this stack to "showAll" -- >>> better for wider screens >>> >>> end if >>> >>> hide grc "blankScreen" >>> >>> setCardCoords "landscape" >>> >>> end preOpenStack >>> >>> stack “view_BrowserLandscape” >>> >>> >>> >>> on preopenstack >>> >>> local tBrowser, tOrientations >>> >>> set the fullscreenmode of this stack to empty >>> >>> put the short name this stack into tBrowser >>> >>> put (tBrowser contains "landscape") into sLandscapeOnly >>> >>> put "landscape left,landscape right" into tOrientations >>> >>> if sLandscapeOnly then >>> >>> put "landscape" into sOrientation >>> >>> else >>> >>> put "portrait,portrait upside down," before tOrientations >>> >>> put "portrait" into sOrientation >>> >>> end if >>> >>> setCardCoords sOrientation >>> >>> if isMobile() then >>> >>> mobileSetAllowedOrientations tOrientations >>> >>> end if >>> >>> resetUI >>> >>> hide grc "blankImage" >>> >>> send "showBrowser" to me in 10 seconds >>> >>> end preopenstack >>> >>> Where is the newest download. >>> >>> https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ >>> >>> LiveCode 9.6.9 RC 1, 10 August 2022 >>> >>> RC 1 >>> Release Notes< >>> https://livecodestatic.com/downloads/livecode/9_6_9/LiveCodeNotes-9_6_9_rc_1.pdf >>>> >>> 10 August 2 >>> >>> >>> Brahmanathaswami >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> And it not there! >>> >>> >>> Did see SivaSiva 1.7.2? It on the iPhone – App Store. >>> >>> Svasti Astu – Be Well >>> Brahmanathaswami >>> >>> Get SivaSiva.app – It free! >>> https://www.himalayanacademy.com/view/sivasiva >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> >> -- >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >> On the second day, God created the oceans. >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> and did a little diving. >> And God said, "This is good." >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From hlowe at me.com Fri Sep 16 16:54:23 2022 From: hlowe at me.com (HENRY LOWE) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2022 21:54:23 +0100 Subject: iOS 16! It will not do landscape! In-Reply-To: <2C81F73C-9BD6-407E-A142-B47945B3CB6B@milby7.com> References: <2C81F73C-9BD6-407E-A142-B47945B3CB6B@milby7.com> Message-ID: I have an iOS app that supports both portrait and landscape mode on the iPhone. It continues to work as expected in iOS 16. I don’t use LC’s built-in commands but instead use proprietary code to handle screen redraws. Henry > On Sep 16, 2022, at 4:27 PM, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote: > > It is not an orientation lock issue. I’ve submitted a bug report but didn’t have iOS 16 loaded yet and have not had a chance to build some test apps to narrow down the details of the issue. Apple did make changes in iOS 16 with how apps request a specific orientation. > > Brian Milby > brian at milby7.com > >> On Sep 16, 2022, at 11:11 AM, harrison--- via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Perhaps the screen lock is turned on so it only shows stuff in portrait mode? >> >>> On Sep 16, 2022, at 10:45 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> weird. we've got 16.1 on our ipads. the LC app we're running on them is >>> working fine in landscape. >>> >>>> On Thu, Sep 15, 2022 at 9:31 PM Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Aloha Everyone >>>> >>>> Well I was involved in iOS 16. Just yesterday. >>>> >>>> It downloaded to my phone (iPhone 13, with Version 16.0 – 20A362) . When I >>>> did that, none of stacks of my stacks will do landscape! >>>> >>>> stack “wordpuzzle” >>>> >>>> on preOpenStack >>>> >>>> if isMobile() then >>>> >>>> mobileSetAllowedOrientations "landscape left,landscape >>>> right" >>>> >>>> mobileSetFullScreenRectForOrientations "landscape >>>> left,landscape right","0,0,736,414" >>>> >>>> set the fullscreenmode of this stack to "showAll" -- >>>> better for wider screens >>>> >>>> end if >>>> >>>> hide grc "blankScreen" >>>> >>>> setCardCoords "landscape" >>>> >>>> end preOpenStack >>>> >>>> stack “view_BrowserLandscape” >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> on preopenstack >>>> >>>> local tBrowser, tOrientations >>>> >>>> set the fullscreenmode of this stack to empty >>>> >>>> put the short name this stack into tBrowser >>>> >>>> put (tBrowser contains "landscape") into sLandscapeOnly >>>> >>>> put "landscape left,landscape right" into tOrientations >>>> >>>> if sLandscapeOnly then >>>> >>>> put "landscape" into sOrientation >>>> >>>> else >>>> >>>> put "portrait,portrait upside down," before tOrientations >>>> >>>> put "portrait" into sOrientation >>>> >>>> end if >>>> >>>> setCardCoords sOrientation >>>> >>>> if isMobile() then >>>> >>>> mobileSetAllowedOrientations tOrientations >>>> >>>> end if >>>> >>>> resetUI >>>> >>>> hide grc "blankImage" >>>> >>>> send "showBrowser" to me in 10 seconds >>>> >>>> end preopenstack >>>> >>>> Where is the newest download. >>>> >>>> https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ >>>> >>>> LiveCode 9.6.9 RC 1, 10 August 2022 >>>> >>>> RC 1 >>>> Release Notes< >>>> https://livecodestatic.com/downloads/livecode/9_6_9/LiveCodeNotes-9_6_9_rc_1.pdf >>>>> >>>> 10 August 2 >>>> >>>> >>>> Brahmanathaswami >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> And it not there! >>>> >>>> >>>> Did see SivaSiva 1.7.2? It on the iPhone – App Store. >>>> >>>> Svasti Astu – Be Well >>>> Brahmanathaswami >>>> >>>> Get SivaSiva.app – It free! >>>> https://www.himalayanacademy.com/view/sivasiva >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >>> On the second day, God created the oceans. >>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >>> and did a little diving. >>> And God said, "This is good." >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Sep 16 18:35:51 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2022 17:35:51 -0500 Subject: Web app checkbox buttons Message-ID: <187661e8-560d-b57a-c85c-d4163a251eb2@hyperactivesw.com> When a web app is run in a browser there are two buttons at the upper right: "Resize canvas" and "Lock/hide mouse pointer". What do these do? There is also a "Fullscreen" button that throws a javascript error. If/when it works, is it supposed to change the browser window to full screen? Or just make the stack content fit the window? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From alex at tweedly.net Fri Sep 16 19:35:03 2022 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2022 00:35:03 +0100 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: <001b01d8c919$14886c80$3d994580$@net> References: <6AF5BE8C-DC3F-4EA9-8490-BA6DDDD7DD7E@m-r-d.de> <002d01d8c477$3f7e1710$be7a4530$@net> <000d01d8c53c$f3cc6d00$db654700$@net> <001b01d8c919$14886c80$3d994580$@net> Message-ID: <5fd6cbaf-3070-657b-6668-e85ac4bd042f@tweedly.net> On 15/09/2022 16:37, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote: > Docs aside... I still think that widgets and lcb is one of best additions to > LC. Community collaboration like this will make for better documentation and > more new/improved widgets. A robust library of widgets can only help LC to > penetrate the market. If only we had these when I started... I so much want to agree - but unfortunately it looks to me more like the biggest missed opportunity. The combination of widgets and LCB is a powerful one (and may indeed be one of the best additions). But I think if you unpick and pull apart the two parts (widget vs LCB) then there is what looks, to the naive observer like me, a missed chance. Widgets + LCB gives us (amongst other things): 1. naming + distribution + installation schemes. 2. integration with the docs / dictionary and IDE tools (inspectors, editors) 3. efficient "direct" drawing to canvas 4. typed variables 5. access to foreign languages / libraries. 6. maybe potential for future performance gains. But of those, only the last two *require* LCB; the others *could* have been done in a way that allows LCScript authors to benefit. (1) and (2) are clearly feasible for LCS almost without change from what's been done for LCB widgets, and I have to believe it would have been possible to provide LCS commands and functions to manipulate the canvas. Given those three things, many of the widgets (e.g. rotatedtext, navRAD) look like they could have been done easily using LCS. I still hold on to the hope that this will become a feature in some future release. And when (if) it ever does, then maybe we will see "1000 widgets by Christmas" because it will be so much more approachable for the average LS Scripter. Alex. From jacques.clavel at gmail.com Sat Sep 17 03:54:53 2022 From: jacques.clavel at gmail.com (Jacques Clavel) Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2022 09:54:53 +0200 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: <5fd6cbaf-3070-657b-6668-e85ac4bd042f@tweedly.net> References: <6AF5BE8C-DC3F-4EA9-8490-BA6DDDD7DD7E@m-r-d.de> <002d01d8c477$3f7e1710$be7a4530$@net> <000d01d8c53c$f3cc6d00$db654700$@net> <001b01d8c919$14886c80$3d994580$@net> <5fd6cbaf-3070-657b-6668-e85ac4bd042f@tweedly.net> Message-ID: point 6. maybe potential for future performance gains : - But today LCB is surprisingly less efficient (/3) than LCS (???) JC Le sam. 17 sept. 2022 à 01:35, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> a écrit : > > On 15/09/2022 16:37, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote: > > Docs aside... I still think that widgets and lcb is one of best > additions to > > LC. Community collaboration like this will make for better documentation > and > > more new/improved widgets. A robust library of widgets can only help LC > to > > penetrate the market. If only we had these when I started... > > I so much want to agree - but unfortunately it looks to me more like the > biggest missed opportunity. > > The combination of widgets and LCB is a powerful one (and may indeed be > one of the best additions). But I think if you unpick and pull apart the > two parts (widget vs LCB) then there is what looks, to the naive > observer like me, a missed chance. > > Widgets + LCB gives us (amongst other things): > > 1. naming + distribution + installation schemes. > > 2. integration with the docs / dictionary and IDE tools (inspectors, > editors) > > 3. efficient "direct" drawing to canvas > > 4. typed variables > > 5. access to foreign languages / libraries. > > 6. maybe potential for future performance gains. > > > But of those, only the last two *require* LCB; the others *could* have > been done in a way that allows LCScript authors to benefit. (1) and (2) > are clearly feasible for LCS almost without change from what's been done > for LCB widgets, and I have to believe it would have been possible to > provide LCS commands and functions to manipulate the canvas. > > Given those three things, many of the widgets (e.g. rotatedtext, navRAD) > look like they could have been done easily using LCS. > > I still hold on to the hope that this will become a feature in some > future release. And when (if) it ever does, then maybe we will see "1000 > widgets by Christmas" because it will be so much more approachable for > the average LS Scripter. > > Alex. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Jacques Clavel From alex at tweedly.net Sat Sep 17 07:01:18 2022 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2022 12:01:18 +0100 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <6AF5BE8C-DC3F-4EA9-8490-BA6DDDD7DD7E@m-r-d.de> <002d01d8c477$3f7e1710$be7a4530$@net> <000d01d8c53c$f3cc6d00$db654700$@net> <001b01d8c919$14886c80$3d994580$@net> <5fd6cbaf-3070-657b-6668-e85ac4bd042f@tweedly.net> Message-ID: On 17/09/2022 08:54, Jacques Clavel via use-livecode wrote: > point 6. maybe potential for future performance gains : > - But today LCB is surprisingly less efficient (/3) than LCS (???) > Yes, at first glance it is surprising; typed variables etc. *should* make it possible to be more efficient. And I think some day they will. But for now, I think that isn't, and shouldn't be, a priority for LC Ltd. The intended uses for LCB are to interface to other libraries/languages, and to provide graphic / UI widgets - and performance is not critical to either of those roles. If I have a LC app which is suffering performance, I should first look at the algorithm, the data structures, engine features I might be able to use, ...., separate process, ... And if none of them fix it for me, then I'm probably going to want a high-performance library in some other language (C, C++, even NumPY, whatever) which allows it to be highly optimized. My new slogan : If I'm suffering for performance, I don't want a 10% improvement from LCB, I want a 10x improvement from C. Alex. From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sat Sep 17 08:57:09 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2022 08:57:09 -0400 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <6AF5BE8C-DC3F-4EA9-8490-BA6DDDD7DD7E@m-r-d.de> <002d01d8c477$3f7e1710$be7a4530$@net> <000d01d8c53c$f3cc6d00$db654700$@net> <001b01d8c919$14886c80$3d994580$@net> <5fd6cbaf-3070-657b-6668-e85ac4bd042f@tweedly.net> Message-ID: Have a look at the CompileIt! manual again. That was 1990. There was no special intermediate language to get toolbox rom or native library calls. LC's choice to engineer LCB the way it did was a choice. It obviously makes it less approachable to the customer. Maybe it makes it easier for the team. Unfortunately, what REALLY makes it less approachable to us, as customers, is all of the work that has to go in to learning it due to the thin documentation, and how long it takes to debug it because the tools are not groovy. (Oh, look, a syntax error! What exactly is the error?) If you have used tmControls (https://github.com/macMikey/tmControl), you will see that it's more than possible to build beautiful controls with LCS. In some cases, native interface objects are great, but in a lot of cases, they are completely overrated (I'm looking at you,flat iOS button). In the meantime, for all of you that are interested, please stop over at the LCB Missing Manual repo on github ( https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual). The wiki is an attempt to build a real LCB manual. The issues are for all of the things that get you stuck, so please post. That will help the wiki get better. From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sat Sep 17 21:40:45 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2022 21:40:45 -0400 Subject: calling all LCB/widget/property editor/property inspector nerds Message-ID: are there any more LCB/widget/property editor/property inspector nerds in here? I'm messing with the next iteration of the navBar/navRAD, and in the weeds, with no documentation to help guide the way. -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From livfoss at mac.com Mon Sep 19 11:43:07 2022 From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2022 17:43:07 +0200 Subject: Calendar interfaces Message-ID: Folks, I have not been following this list with great attention for the last few months, nor doing active LC development, so I’ve missed a lot, but now I have been asked to look into the possibility of an app that reads and writes to standard calendars, particularly the kind used by Apple. I believe their apps for Mac and iOS use some kind of open standard, and if so there must be a useable API. To save me lots of research, can I ask if anyone has worked with calendars like these, and if so, can they point me to an easy way to get LC to talk to them. TIA Graham From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon Sep 19 12:05:43 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2022 16:05:43 +0000 Subject: Calendar interfaces In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <84A3BBD8-0DAE-49E3-B41D-C6BD6E99188C@iotecdigital.com> Hi Graham. I was just looking at this myself. I think the best way to work with calendars is to send an email with an iCalendar file (.ics). I will send you a zip file of an example with attachment to your personal email. It's pretty straight forward, but the file attachment is base 64 encoded binary so be aware of that. .ics files are simply specially formatted text files. Most email clients when they detect an ics file with an invite embedded will give you an accept/decline option. That being said, I know that MacOS calendar app is Applescript enabled, and if you open an ics file in windows with the command prompt, it will launch the default calendar app and add the event to the default calendar. Here is a link for the RFC 5545 spec, but I warn you it is a lot, and you really don't need to know all of it. The example I send you will teach you more than anything else: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc5545#section-3.7 Bob S On Sep 19, 2022, at 08:43 , Graham Samuel via use-livecode > wrote: Folks, I have not been following this list with great attention for the last few months, nor doing active LC development, so I’ve missed a lot, but now I have been asked to look into the possibility of an app that reads and writes to standard calendars, particularly the kind used by Apple. I believe their apps for Mac and iOS use some kind of open standard, and if so there must be a useable API. To save me lots of research, can I ask if anyone has worked with calendars like these, and if so, can they point me to an easy way to get LC to talk to them. TIA Graham _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From livfoss at mac.com Mon Sep 19 12:12:31 2022 From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2022 18:12:31 +0200 Subject: Calendar interfaces In-Reply-To: <84A3BBD8-0DAE-49E3-B41D-C6BD6E99188C@iotecdigital.com> References: <84A3BBD8-0DAE-49E3-B41D-C6BD6E99188C@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <650072F0-EE0E-4429-80FA-020096B7935A@mac.com> Wow! That was a quick reply! Thanks so much. I will look forward very much to learning from you example file. Graham > On 19 Sep 2022, at 18:05, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Graham. I was just looking at this myself. I think the best way to work with calendars is to send an email with an iCalendar file (.ics). I will send you a zip file of an example with attachment to your personal email. It's pretty straight forward, but the file attachment is base 64 encoded binary so be aware of that. .ics files are simply specially formatted text files. Most email clients when they detect an ics file with an invite embedded will give you an accept/decline option. > > That being said, I know that MacOS calendar app is Applescript enabled, and if you open an ics file in windows with the command prompt, it will launch the default calendar app and add the event to the default calendar. > > > Here is a link for the RFC 5545 spec, but I warn you it is a lot, and you really don't need to know all of it. The example I send you will teach you more than anything else: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc5545#section-3.7 > > Bob S > > > On Sep 19, 2022, at 08:43 , Graham Samuel via use-livecode > wrote: > > Folks, I have not been following this list with great attention for the last few months, nor doing active LC development, so I’ve missed a lot, but now I have been asked to look into the possibility of an app that reads and writes to standard calendars, particularly the kind used by Apple. I believe their apps for Mac and iOS use some kind of open standard, and if so there must be a useable API. > > To save me lots of research, can I ask if anyone has worked with calendars like these, and if so, can they point me to an easy way to get LC to talk to them. > > TIA > > Graham > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From andre at andregarzia.com Tue Sep 20 06:28:22 2022 From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2022 11:28:22 +0100 Subject: Calendar interfaces In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0CA0B99A-EB9F-4DF3-AB95-4CEDAC34A6CD@andregarzia.com> Graham, In 2005 I wrote a library to parse and generate vCards and iCalendar files. It is a very old library I wrote when I was still early in my LiveCode journey. It works but it is underdocumented. There are commands and functions to generate an iCalendar file and there are some “raw” vObject (the common part of vCards and iCal files) functions that can be used to parse them. I don’t think this is a turn-key solution for your problem but it is a good starting point to develop your own solution. I’ve uploaded it to: https://andregarzia.com/files/vObjectPackage.livecode.zip The iCal part is not documented but it is on the source code. Learn the vCard documentation and you’ll get a feel for how the iCal part should work. Then, look at the source of “vObjectlib” substack for the command names. Best Andre > On 19 Sep 2022, at 16:43, Graham Samuel via use-livecode wrote: > > Folks, I have not been following this list with great attention for the last few months, nor doing active LC development, so I’ve missed a lot, but now I have been asked to look into the possibility of an app that reads and writes to standard calendars, particularly the kind used by Apple. I believe their apps for Mac and iOS use some kind of open standard, and if so there must be a useable API. > > To save me lots of research, can I ask if anyone has worked with calendars like these, and if so, can they point me to an easy way to get LC to talk to them. > > TIA > > Graham > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Tue Sep 20 12:59:50 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2022 12:59:50 -0400 Subject: [LCB]custom property editor Message-ID: the megabundle widgets have custom property editors bundled with them in their /editors folder. unfortunately, i cannot find any documentation on how to do this. i'm assuming we would use a metadata variant, but of course there does not seem to be any documentation on how to do that. i have tried embedding both /editors/ and editors/ in the editor metadata, but that does not seem to work. any ideas? -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Tue Sep 20 17:02:13 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2022 17:02:13 -0400 Subject: lc 9.8 with xc 13.2.1 Message-ID: The notes for 9.8 says it supports xc 13.2, and i'm seeing others using 13.2.1 I'm getting an error with 13.2.1. (error linking for arm - "iphoneos 15.2" cannot be located) building for ios 9 or later -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From merakosp at gmail.com Wed Sep 21 03:24:18 2022 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis m) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2022 10:24:18 +0300 Subject: lc 9.8 with xc 13.2.1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Mike, Yes, 13.2.1 should work too. Where have you stored Xcode? Did you by any chance rename the Xcode.app bundle? Kind regards, Panos -- On Wed, 21 Sept 2022 at 00:04, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > The notes for 9.8 says it supports xc 13.2, and i'm seeing others using > 13.2.1 > I'm getting an error with 13.2.1. > (error linking for arm - "iphoneos 15.2" cannot be located) > building for ios 9 or later > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From merakosp at gmail.com Wed Sep 21 03:29:04 2022 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis m) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2022 10:29:04 +0300 Subject: lc 9.8 with xc 13.2.1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Also, what does this return (in the Terminal): xcode-select -p Cheers, Panos On Wed, 21 Sept 2022 at 10:24, panagiotis m wrote: > Hello Mike, > > Yes, 13.2.1 should work too. > > Where have you stored Xcode? Did you by any chance rename the Xcode.app > bundle? > > Kind regards, > Panos > -- > > On Wed, 21 Sept 2022 at 00:04, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> The notes for 9.8 says it supports xc 13.2, and i'm seeing others using >> 13.2.1 >> I'm getting an error with 13.2.1. >> (error linking for arm - "iphoneos 15.2" cannot be located) >> building for ios 9 or later >> >> -- >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >> On the second day, God created the oceans. >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> and did a little diving. >> And God said, "This is good." >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed Sep 21 07:46:19 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2022 07:46:19 -0400 Subject: lc 9.8 with xc 13.2.1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: OMFG SCREW YOU, PANOS anyway, if it was /XCode 12.5.1/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer executing sudo xcode-select -s /Applications/Xcode fixed it On Wed, Sep 21, 2022 at 3:30 AM panagiotis m via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Also, what does this return (in the Terminal): > > xcode-select -p > > Cheers, > Panos > > On Wed, 21 Sept 2022 at 10:24, panagiotis m wrote: > > > Hello Mike, > > > > Yes, 13.2.1 should work too. > > > > Where have you stored Xcode? Did you by any chance rename the Xcode.app > > bundle? > > > > Kind regards, > > Panos > > -- > > > > On Wed, 21 Sept 2022 at 00:04, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > >> The notes for 9.8 says it supports xc 13.2, and i'm seeing others using > >> 13.2.1 > >> I'm getting an error with 13.2.1. > >> (error linking for arm - "iphoneos 15.2" cannot be located) > >> building for ios 9 or later > >> > >> -- > >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > >> On the second day, God created the oceans. > >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > >> and did a little diving. > >> And God said, "This is good." > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed Sep 21 19:37:56 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2022 19:37:56 -0400 Subject: [LCB]custom property editor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: never mind, i went on a bear hunt in the ide and found it. If someone stumbles on this thread, you can find the information in the LiveCode Builder Missing Manual wiki ( https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual/wiki) On Tue, Sep 20, 2022 at 12:59 PM Mike Kerner wrote: > the megabundle widgets have custom property editors bundled with them in > their /editors folder. unfortunately, i cannot find any documentation on > how to do this. i'm assuming we would use a metadata variant, but of course > there does not seem to be any documentation on how to do that. i have tried > embedding both /editors/ and editors/ in the editor metadata, but that does > not seem to work. > any ideas? > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From gcanyon at gmail.com Thu Sep 22 15:58:57 2022 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2022 12:58:57 -0700 Subject: Weird performance issue Message-ID: I was testing something for Navigator and found the following: put the long seconds into T repeat 10000 get there is a card 1 of stack "untitled 1" --get there is a card 1 of stack "revnavigator" end repeat put the long seconds - T into T put T -- puts 0.005 or so put the long seconds into T repeat 10000 --get there is a card 1 of stack "untitled 1" get there is a card 1 of stack "revnavigator" end repeat put the long seconds - T into T put T -- puts 1.2 Why in the world would it take over 200x as long to identify that there is a card 1 of Navigator vs. a random stack I just created? I just checked and: stack "message" -- over 3 seconds -- a second run was 0.4 stack "revdictionary" -- 1.5 seconds stack "home" -- 0.02 seconds I ran it across everything in the environment and got results from under a hundredth of a second to over a second, with stacks pretty smoothly across that range. No clue what's causing it. From tom at makeshyft.com Thu Sep 22 19:32:49 2022 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2022 19:32:49 -0400 Subject: PolyGrid Message-ID: Hello Folks, I'm wondering if there is any official documentation for the polygrid and polylist widgets. Like a place that tells you what messages the grid listens to and etc. Something in written form? Thanks -- Tom Glod Founder & Developer @ MakeShyft R.D.A Build Software with AppStarterStack for Livecode From craig at starfirelighting.com Fri Sep 23 09:45:10 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2022 09:45:10 -0400 Subject: Weird performance issue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6CB38AC4-4F31-4A25-8DD6-0EA1D13631FF@starfirelighting.com> Geoff. I get over 5 seconds for the “revNavigatior” So I modified your handler just a bit, to only a But “revNaviigator” does not appear on that list. So there must be a longer pathway for LC to find a stack that certainly must be in memory, but that does not appear in the “stacks” list? Craig > On Sep 22, 2022, at 3:58 PM, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode wrote: > > put the long seconds into T > repeat 10000 > get there is a card 1 of stack "untitled 1" > --get there is a card 1 of stack "revnavigator" > end repeat > put the long seconds - T into T > put T > -- puts 0.005 or so > > put the long seconds into T > repeat 10000 > --get there is a card 1 of stack "untitled 1" > get there is a card 1 of stack "revnavigator" > end repeat > put the long seconds - T into T > put T > -- puts 1.2 From craig at starfirelighting.com Fri Sep 23 09:47:56 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2022 09:47:56 -0400 Subject: Weird performance issue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <815CBBDD-46B4-4F68-B12D-B102598874D9@starfirelighting.com> Something weird happened to my post. I modified your handler to access only those stacks that appear when calling the function “the stacks”. In all those cases, the return time was only a few tenths of a second. But “revNaviigator” does not appear on that list. So there must be a longer pathway for LC to find a stack that certainly must be in memory, but that does not appear in the “stacks” list? Craig > On Sep 22, 2022, at 3:58 PM, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode wrote: > > I was testing something for Navigator and found the following: > > put the long seconds into T > repeat 10000 > get there is a card 1 of stack "untitled 1" > --get there is a card 1 of stack "revnavigator" > end repeat > put the long seconds - T into T > put T > -- puts 0.005 or so > > put the long seconds into T > repeat 10000 > --get there is a card 1 of stack "untitled 1" > get there is a card 1 of stack "revnavigator" > end repeat > put the long seconds - T into T > put T > -- puts 1.2 > > Why in the world would it take over 200x as long to identify that there is > a card 1 of Navigator vs. a random stack I just created? > > I just checked and: > stack "message" -- over 3 seconds -- a second run was 0.4 > stack "revdictionary" -- 1.5 seconds > stack "home" -- 0.02 seconds > > I ran it across everything in the environment and got results from under a > hundredth of a second to over a second, with stacks pretty smoothly across > that range. No clue what's causing it. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From gcanyon at gmail.com Fri Sep 23 10:34:59 2022 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2022 07:34:59 -0700 Subject: Weird performance issue In-Reply-To: <815CBBDD-46B4-4F68-B12D-B102598874D9@starfirelighting.com> References: <815CBBDD-46B4-4F68-B12D-B102598874D9@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: Hmm, this is what "the stacks" returns for me: /Users/gcanyon/Desktop/nav tester 0.004608 /Applications/LiveCode 9.6.8.app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/palettes/script-editor/revscripteditor.rev 0.272558 /Applications/LiveCode 9.6.8.app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/palettes/tools-palette/revtools.livecodescript 0.440798 /Applications/LiveCode 9.6.8.app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/palettes/dictionary/revdictionary.livecode 1.72743 /Applications/LiveCode 9.6.8.app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/palettes/menubar/revmenubar.livecodescript 0.421698 /Users/gcanyon/Desktop/nav tester 0.00453 0.007308 /Applications/LiveCode 9.6.8.app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/palettes/inspector/revinspector.livecodescript 1.565991 /Users/gcanyon/Documents/My LiveCode/Plugins/Navigator.rev 1.348666 Note the super long times for the dictionary, the inspector, and navigator, the mediocre times for others, and the super fast time for the stack actually running the code. I'm on an M1 mac running 9.6.8 On Fri, Sep 23, 2022 at 6:48 AM Craig Newman via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Something weird happened to my post. > > I modified your handler to access only those stacks that appear when > calling the function “the stacks”. In all those cases, the return time was > only a few tenths of a second. > > But “revNaviigator” does not appear on that list. So there must be a > longer pathway for LC to find a stack that certainly must be in memory, but > that does not appear in the “stacks” list? > > Craig > > > On Sep 22, 2022, at 3:58 PM, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > I was testing something for Navigator and found the following: > > > > put the long seconds into T > > repeat 10000 > > get there is a card 1 of stack "untitled 1" > > --get there is a card 1 of stack "revnavigator" > > end repeat > > put the long seconds - T into T > > put T > > -- puts 0.005 or so > > > > put the long seconds into T > > repeat 10000 > > --get there is a card 1 of stack "untitled 1" > > get there is a card 1 of stack "revnavigator" > > end repeat > > put the long seconds - T into T > > put T > > -- puts 1.2 > > > > Why in the world would it take over 200x as long to identify that there > is > > a card 1 of Navigator vs. a random stack I just created? > > > > I just checked and: > > stack "message" -- over 3 seconds -- a second run was 0.4 > > stack "revdictionary" -- 1.5 seconds > > stack "home" -- 0.02 seconds > > > > I ran it across everything in the environment and got results from under > a > > hundredth of a second to over a second, with stacks pretty smoothly > across > > that range. No clue what's causing it. > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From klaus at major-k.de Fri Sep 23 11:46:47 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2022 17:46:47 +0200 Subject: PolyGrid In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Tom, > Am 23.09.2022 um 01:32 schrieb Tom Glod via use-livecode : > > Hello Folks, > > I'm wondering if there is any official documentation for the polygrid and > polylist widgets. > Like a place that tells you what messages the grid listens to and etc. > Something in written form? yes, check the dictionary for PolyList and PolyGrid. > Thanks > > -- > Tom Glod Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Sep 23 13:40:40 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2022 12:40:40 -0500 Subject: Weird performance issue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1836b6fe9c0.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> It may be related to the size of the stack. LC would have to load it all into memory before checking the cards. Also, do the results change if you lock messages? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On September 22, 2022 3:01:48 PM Geoff Canyon via use-livecode wrote: > I was testing something for Navigator and found the following: > > put the long seconds into T > repeat 10000 > get there is a card 1 of stack "untitled 1" > --get there is a card 1 of stack "revnavigator" > end repeat > put the long seconds - T into T > put T > -- puts 0.005 or so > > put the long seconds into T > repeat 10000 > --get there is a card 1 of stack "untitled 1" > get there is a card 1 of stack "revnavigator" > end repeat > put the long seconds - T into T > put T > -- puts 1.2 > > Why in the world would it take over 200x as long to identify that there is > a card 1 of Navigator vs. a random stack I just created? > > I just checked and: > stack "message" -- over 3 seconds -- a second run was 0.4 > stack "revdictionary" -- 1.5 seconds > stack "home" -- 0.02 seconds > > I ran it across everything in the environment and got results from under a > hundredth of a second to over a second, with stacks pretty smoothly across > that range. No clue what's causing it. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ahsoftware at sonic.net Fri Sep 23 14:07:17 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2022 11:07:17 -0700 Subject: Weird performance issue In-Reply-To: <1836b6fe9c0.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <1836b6fe9c0.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <97d00205-4a08-f776-335f-584579364e3b@sonic.net> On 9/23/22 10:40, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > It may be related to the size of the stack. LC would have to load it all > into memory before checking the cards. Also, do the results change if > you lock messages? You also do a *lot* of work on both opening the stack and opening the card. And looping through that many times in your test. Your loop test doesn't really simulate real-world conditions for Navigator, so I don't think I'd worry about it too much. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From tom at makeshyft.com Fri Sep 23 14:09:54 2022 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2022 14:09:54 -0400 Subject: PolyGrid In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Klaus, Its strange that it didn't occur to me to check there, I assumed it was not updated. :D My bad. Thanks. Tom On Fri, Sep 23, 2022 at 11:47 AM Klaus major-k via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi Tom, > > > Am 23.09.2022 um 01:32 schrieb Tom Glod via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: > > > > Hello Folks, > > > > I'm wondering if there is any official documentation for the polygrid and > > polylist widgets. > > Like a place that tells you what messages the grid listens to and etc. > > Something in written form? > > yes, check the dictionary for PolyList and PolyGrid. > > > Thanks > > > > -- > > Tom Glod > > Best > > Klaus > > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > https://www.major-k.de/bass > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From gcanyon at gmail.com Fri Sep 23 18:41:17 2022 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2022 15:41:17 -0700 Subject: Weird performance issue In-Reply-To: <1836b6fe9c0.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <1836b6fe9c0.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: My test stack had over a thousand cards in it, and was still fast checking the 1000th card. I've now added a field to each of a thousand cards and stuck text in it; the stack is over 12MB and still much faster than Navigator, which is under 1MB. Lock Messages does nothing as far as I can tell. thanks! gc On Fri, Sep 23, 2022 at 10:41 AM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > It may be related to the size of the stack. LC would have to load it all > into memory before checking the cards. Also, do the results change if you > lock messages? > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > On September 22, 2022 3:01:48 PM Geoff Canyon via use-livecode > wrote: > From gcanyon at gmail.com Fri Sep 23 18:43:45 2022 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2022 15:43:45 -0700 Subject: Weird performance issue In-Reply-To: <97d00205-4a08-f776-335f-584579364e3b@sonic.net> References: <1836b6fe9c0.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <97d00205-4a08-f776-335f-584579364e3b@sonic.net> Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 23, 2022 at 11:08 AM Mark Wieder via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 9/23/22 10:40, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > > It may be related to the size of the stack. LC would have to load it all > > into memory before checking the cards. Also, do the results change if > > you lock messages? > > You also do a *lot* of work on both opening the stack and opening the > card. And looping through that many times in your test. Your loop test > doesn't really simulate real-world conditions for Navigator, so I don't > think I'd worry about it too much. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com Why would the stack be opened, or the card, just checking existence? And why would that happen each time rather than once? FYI for all tests the stacks are already open. And: Navigator until the version I'm working on now did exactly this when getting a list of the card names I have no idea why I coded it that way, but checking that method vs. getting the number of cards and then getting the names based on that was what let me to notice this. thanks! gc From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Sep 23 19:43:00 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2022 18:43:00 -0500 Subject: Weird performance issue In-Reply-To: References: <1836b6fe9c0.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <97d00205-4a08-f776-335f-584579364e3b@sonic.net> Message-ID: <1836cbba3a0.27ee.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Are you familiar with the cardnames function? Letting the engine do it for you is always faster. That doesn't answer your question though. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On September 23, 2022 5:46:24 PM Geoff Canyon via use-livecode wrote: > On Fri, Sep 23, 2022 at 11:08 AM Mark Wieder via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> On 9/23/22 10:40, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >> > It may be related to the size of the stack. LC would have to load it all >> > into memory before checking the cards. Also, do the results change if >> > you lock messages? >> >> You also do a *lot* of work on both opening the stack and opening the >> card. And looping through that many times in your test. Your loop test >> doesn't really simulate real-world conditions for Navigator, so I don't >> think I'd worry about it too much. >> >> -- >> Mark Wieder >> ahsoftware at gmail.com > > > Why would the stack be opened, or the card, just checking existence? And > why would that happen each time rather than once? > > FYI for all tests the stacks are already open. > > And: Navigator until the version I'm working on now did exactly this when > getting a list of the card names I have no idea why I coded it that way, > but checking that method vs. getting the number of cards and then getting > the names based on that was what let me to notice this. > > thanks! > > gc > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri Sep 23 21:09:22 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2022 21:09:22 -0400 Subject: PolyGrid In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The docs in the dictionary may not be complete, yet. I filed a report about it, but I don't know if they're all done or not. On Fri, Sep 23, 2022 at 2:11 PM Tom Glod via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Thanks Klaus, > > Its strange that it didn't occur to me to check there, I assumed it was not > updated. :D > My bad. > Thanks. > > Tom > > On Fri, Sep 23, 2022 at 11:47 AM Klaus major-k via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > Hi Tom, > > > > > Am 23.09.2022 um 01:32 schrieb Tom Glod via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: > > > > > > Hello Folks, > > > > > > I'm wondering if there is any official documentation for the polygrid > and > > > polylist widgets. > > > Like a place that tells you what messages the grid listens to and etc. > > > Something in written form? > > > > yes, check the dictionary for PolyList and PolyGrid. > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > -- > > > Tom Glod > > > > Best > > > > Klaus > > > > -- > > Klaus Major > > https://www.major-k.de > > https://www.major-k.de/bass > > klaus at major-k.de > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From gcanyon at gmail.com Fri Sep 23 23:38:49 2022 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2022 20:38:49 -0700 Subject: Weird performance issue In-Reply-To: <1836cbba3a0.27ee.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <1836b6fe9c0.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <97d00205-4a08-f776-335f-584579364e3b@sonic.net> <1836cbba3a0.27ee.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Yep, I'm aware of cardnames. I don't have any memory of why I wrote it this way -- maybe I didn't trust the ordering of cardnames and cardids? Or maybe it made more sense to collect by hand than to stitch together the values? Or maybe I just sucked at that moment in time. gc On Fri, Sep 23, 2022 at 4:44 PM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Are you familiar with the cardnames function? Letting the engine do it for > you is always faster. That doesn't answer your question though. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > On September 23, 2022 5:46:24 PM Geoff Canyon via use-livecode > wrote: > > > On Fri, Sep 23, 2022 at 11:08 AM Mark Wieder via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > >> On 9/23/22 10:40, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > >> > It may be related to the size of the stack. LC would have to load it > all > >> > into memory before checking the cards. Also, do the results change if > >> > you lock messages? > >> > >> You also do a *lot* of work on both opening the stack and opening the > >> card. And looping through that many times in your test. Your loop test > >> doesn't really simulate real-world conditions for Navigator, so I don't > >> think I'd worry about it too much. > >> > >> -- > >> Mark Wieder > >> ahsoftware at gmail.com > > > > > > Why would the stack be opened, or the card, just checking existence? And > > why would that happen each time rather than once? > > > > FYI for all tests the stacks are already open. > > > > And: Navigator until the version I'm working on now did exactly this when > > getting a list of the card names I have no idea why I coded it that way, > > but checking that method vs. getting the number of cards and then getting > > the names based on that was what let me to notice this. > > > > thanks! > > > > gc > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From gcanyon at gmail.com Fri Sep 23 23:51:54 2022 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2022 20:51:54 -0700 Subject: Weird performance issue In-Reply-To: <1836cbba3a0.27ee.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <1836b6fe9c0.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <97d00205-4a08-f776-335f-584579364e3b@sonic.net> <1836cbba3a0.27ee.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 23, 2022 at 4:44 PM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Letting the engine do it for you is always faster. > Interestingly, *just* getting the names and ids for a 1500 card stack is only about 15 times faster using the functions rather than a loop that gets each individually. For my purposes I have to parse the results anyway, which reduces the ratio to about 6 times faster. Enough that I'll definitely rewrite the code, but less than I would have expected. From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sun Sep 25 12:41:07 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2022 12:41:07 -0400 Subject: Hacking LiveCode Message-ID: chasing all the things that aren't documented, but you need to know about LCB took me back into hacking liveCode. it's just getting started. if you have tools or pointers, the repo/wiki/issues/discussion are at https://github.com/macMikey/LC-HACK Project 1: extracting all properties of a widget (because "export" does not export the "base" LC object properties) and applying those properties to an updated version of the widget (because LC is releasing updates to the megabundle widgets almost weekly) Project 2: documenting the LC IDE API's? -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From paul at researchware.com Sun Sep 25 12:58:40 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2022 12:58:40 -0400 Subject: Hacking LiveCode In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9ec1d4e4-6704-7fa5-252f-6e6a65153a6d@researchware.com> On 9/25/2022 12:41 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > chasing all the things that aren't documented, but you need to know about > LCB took me back into hacking liveCode. > it's just getting started. if you have tools or pointers, the > repo/wiki/issues/discussion are at https://github.com/macMikey/LC-HACK > Project 1: extracting all properties of a widget (because "export" does not > export the "base" LC object properties) and applying those properties to an > updated version of the widget (because LC is releasing updates to the > megabundle widgets almost weekly) > Project 2: documenting the LC IDE API's? > A clarification please: Are you saying that if I have version 1.1.2 of PolyGrid (as an example) installed and I have made a stack using 1 or more Polygrids and I now download and install version 1.3.1 (or some newer version) of PolyGrid, that when I open my stack the PolyGrids in that stack do not update from 1.1.2 to 1.3.1? If so, this is a terrible disadvantage of any use of widgets. I feel I must be misunderstanding why exporting properties to re-apply them is needed for updates. From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sun Sep 25 14:11:28 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2022 14:11:28 -0400 Subject: Hacking LiveCode In-Reply-To: <9ec1d4e4-6704-7fa5-252f-6e6a65153a6d@researchware.com> References: <9ec1d4e4-6704-7fa5-252f-6e6a65153a6d@researchware.com> Message-ID: How's this: the expected behavior is not documented (as far as I can find), so I don't know what the expected behavior is. I have tested modifying a widget, rebuilding it, and re-adding it to LC. That does not seem to cause existing widgets to update. Is that a bug in my code, and am I doing something wrong that is leading me down this path? 100% absolutely, positively, maybe, and then I'm just chasing a phantom...again... I also don't think there is a documented way to see what version each widget is in a particular...widget, but I think we might be able to. We can certainly tell which version of a widget is installed in LC (bug report 23952, whose code is going to go into the hack repo, soon). If I am write, and it is not a bug in my code, then it absolutely is a disadvantage to using widgets...until this hack is complete. On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 12:59 PM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 9/25/2022 12:41 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > chasing all the things that aren't documented, but you need to know about > > LCB took me back into hacking liveCode. > > it's just getting started. if you have tools or pointers, the > > repo/wiki/issues/discussion are at https://github.com/macMikey/LC-HACK > > Project 1: extracting all properties of a widget (because "export" does > not > > export the "base" LC object properties) and applying those properties to > an > > updated version of the widget (because LC is releasing updates to the > > megabundle widgets almost weekly) > > Project 2: documenting the LC IDE API's? > > > > A clarification please: Are you saying that if I have version 1.1.2 of > PolyGrid (as an example) installed and I have made a stack using 1 or > more Polygrids and I now download and install version 1.3.1 (or some > newer version) of PolyGrid, that when I open my stack the PolyGrids in > that stack do not update from 1.1.2 to 1.3.1? > > If so, this is a terrible disadvantage of any use of widgets. I feel I > must be misunderstanding why exporting properties to re-apply them is > needed for updates. > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sun Sep 25 14:28:37 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2022 14:28:37 -0400 Subject: Hacking LiveCode In-Reply-To: References: <9ec1d4e4-6704-7fa5-252f-6e6a65153a6d@researchware.com> Message-ID: and it is also 100% possible that there is something that can happen during the building/testing/installing process that would explain the behavior i have seen, but without knowing the expected behavior... On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 2:11 PM Mike Kerner wrote: > How's this: the expected behavior is not documented (as far as I can > find), so I don't know what the expected behavior is. I have tested > modifying a widget, rebuilding it, and re-adding it to LC. That does not > seem to cause existing widgets to update. Is that a bug in my code, and am > I doing something wrong that is leading me down this path? 100% absolutely, > positively, maybe, and then I'm just chasing a phantom...again... > I also don't think there is a documented way to see what version each > widget is in a particular...widget, but I think we might be able to. We can > certainly tell which version of a widget is installed in LC (bug report > 23952, whose code is going to go into the hack repo, soon). > > If I am write, and it is not a bug in my code, then it absolutely is a > disadvantage to using widgets...until this hack is complete. > > On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 12:59 PM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> On 9/25/2022 12:41 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: >> > chasing all the things that aren't documented, but you need to know >> about >> > LCB took me back into hacking liveCode. >> > it's just getting started. if you have tools or pointers, the >> > repo/wiki/issues/discussion are at https://github.com/macMikey/LC-HACK >> > Project 1: extracting all properties of a widget (because "export" does >> not >> > export the "base" LC object properties) and applying those properties >> to an >> > updated version of the widget (because LC is releasing updates to the >> > megabundle widgets almost weekly) >> > Project 2: documenting the LC IDE API's? >> > >> >> A clarification please: Are you saying that if I have version 1.1.2 of >> PolyGrid (as an example) installed and I have made a stack using 1 or >> more Polygrids and I now download and install version 1.3.1 (or some >> newer version) of PolyGrid, that when I open my stack the PolyGrids in >> that stack do not update from 1.1.2 to 1.3.1? >> >> If so, this is a terrible disadvantage of any use of widgets. I feel I >> must be misunderstanding why exporting properties to re-apply them is >> needed for updates. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sun Sep 25 15:07:26 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2022 15:07:26 -0400 Subject: Hacking LiveCode In-Reply-To: References: <9ec1d4e4-6704-7fa5-252f-6e6a65153a6d@researchware.com> Message-ID: i just re-tested this, and came up with the opposite result (modifying the widget and rebuilding it causes existing copies to behave the new way). So, it's time to come up with a recipe for one versus the other... welcome to the weeds... On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 2:28 PM Mike Kerner wrote: > and it is also 100% possible that there is something that can happen > during the building/testing/installing process that would explain the > behavior i have seen, but without knowing the expected behavior... > > On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 2:11 PM Mike Kerner > wrote: > >> How's this: the expected behavior is not documented (as far as I can >> find), so I don't know what the expected behavior is. I have tested >> modifying a widget, rebuilding it, and re-adding it to LC. That does not >> seem to cause existing widgets to update. Is that a bug in my code, and am >> I doing something wrong that is leading me down this path? 100% absolutely, >> positively, maybe, and then I'm just chasing a phantom...again... >> I also don't think there is a documented way to see what version each >> widget is in a particular...widget, but I think we might be able to. We can >> certainly tell which version of a widget is installed in LC (bug report >> 23952, whose code is going to go into the hack repo, soon). >> >> If I am write, and it is not a bug in my code, then it absolutely is a >> disadvantage to using widgets...until this hack is complete. >> >> On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 12:59 PM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>> On 9/25/2022 12:41 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: >>> > chasing all the things that aren't documented, but you need to know >>> about >>> > LCB took me back into hacking liveCode. >>> > it's just getting started. if you have tools or pointers, the >>> > repo/wiki/issues/discussion are at https://github.com/macMikey/LC-HACK >>> > Project 1: extracting all properties of a widget (because "export" >>> does not >>> > export the "base" LC object properties) and applying those properties >>> to an >>> > updated version of the widget (because LC is releasing updates to the >>> > megabundle widgets almost weekly) >>> > Project 2: documenting the LC IDE API's? >>> > >>> >>> A clarification please: Are you saying that if I have version 1.1.2 of >>> PolyGrid (as an example) installed and I have made a stack using 1 or >>> more Polygrids and I now download and install version 1.3.1 (or some >>> newer version) of PolyGrid, that when I open my stack the PolyGrids in >>> that stack do not update from 1.1.2 to 1.3.1? >>> >>> If so, this is a terrible disadvantage of any use of widgets. I feel I >>> must be misunderstanding why exporting properties to re-apply them is >>> needed for updates. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> >> -- >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >> On the second day, God created the oceans. >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> and did a little diving. >> And God said, "This is good." >> > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From brian at milby7.com Sun Sep 25 15:49:28 2022 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2022 15:49:28 -0400 Subject: Hacking LiveCode In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9D653FFE-B917-4E63-8241-F94EE3C9E877@milby7.com> The widgets are identified by the reverse dns name. As long as that name does not change, LC will use whichever version is currently installed in the IDE. The issue is that you can’t take the LC version of a widget and then build your own version with a new name and have the settings easily come over. I think this export issue should really be thought of as a bug. When a widget is exported it pulls the widget settings from the widget and ignores the standard ones. The engine has to serialize the data when it saves the stack so it should not be a huge issue to fix. Brian Milby brian at milby7.com > On Sep 25, 2022, at 3:09 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > i just re-tested this, and came up with the opposite result (modifying the > widget and rebuilding it causes existing copies to behave the new way). So, > it's time to come up with a recipe for one versus the other... > welcome to the weeds... > >> On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 2:28 PM Mike Kerner >> wrote: >> >> and it is also 100% possible that there is something that can happen >> during the building/testing/installing process that would explain the >> behavior i have seen, but without knowing the expected behavior... >> >> On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 2:11 PM Mike Kerner >> wrote: >> >>> How's this: the expected behavior is not documented (as far as I can >>> find), so I don't know what the expected behavior is. I have tested >>> modifying a widget, rebuilding it, and re-adding it to LC. That does not >>> seem to cause existing widgets to update. Is that a bug in my code, and am >>> I doing something wrong that is leading me down this path? 100% absolutely, >>> positively, maybe, and then I'm just chasing a phantom...again... >>> I also don't think there is a documented way to see what version each >>> widget is in a particular...widget, but I think we might be able to. We can >>> certainly tell which version of a widget is installed in LC (bug report >>> 23952, whose code is going to go into the hack repo, soon). >>> >>> If I am write, and it is not a bug in my code, then it absolutely is a >>> disadvantage to using widgets...until this hack is complete. >>> >>> On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 12:59 PM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>>> On 9/25/2022 12:41 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: >>>>> chasing all the things that aren't documented, but you need to know >>>> about >>>>> LCB took me back into hacking liveCode. >>>>> it's just getting started. if you have tools or pointers, the >>>>> repo/wiki/issues/discussion are at https://github.com/macMikey/LC-HACK >>>>> Project 1: extracting all properties of a widget (because "export" >>>> does not >>>>> export the "base" LC object properties) and applying those properties >>>> to an >>>>> updated version of the widget (because LC is releasing updates to the >>>>> megabundle widgets almost weekly) >>>>> Project 2: documenting the LC IDE API's? >>>>> >>>> >>>> A clarification please: Are you saying that if I have version 1.1.2 of >>>> PolyGrid (as an example) installed and I have made a stack using 1 or >>>> more Polygrids and I now download and install version 1.3.1 (or some >>>> newer version) of PolyGrid, that when I open my stack the PolyGrids in >>>> that stack do not update from 1.1.2 to 1.3.1? >>>> >>>> If so, this is a terrible disadvantage of any use of widgets. I feel I >>>> must be misunderstanding why exporting properties to re-apply them is >>>> needed for updates. >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >>> On the second day, God created the oceans. >>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >>> and did a little diving. >>> And God said, "This is good." >>> >> >> >> -- >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >> On the second day, God created the oceans. >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> and did a little diving. >> And God said, "This is good." >> > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sun Sep 25 16:51:42 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2022 16:51:42 -0400 Subject: Hacking LiveCode In-Reply-To: <9D653FFE-B917-4E63-8241-F94EE3C9E877@milby7.com> References: <9D653FFE-B917-4E63-8241-F94EE3C9E877@milby7.com> Message-ID: 1. is that documented, somewhere, because i cannot find it. 2. that isn't the problem i was having. the problem i was having was that if i took a widget (navRad, for instance), and added code to it, then installed the new version, preexisting copies of the widget would not execute the new code. new copies would. so, it's 100% possible that i discovered some other behavior, but after testing it a few times, instead of documenting the recipe, i accepted that this was the behavior, and went about addressing it. except, today, when i tested it, the behavior is the one that you would want (in unbuilt apps, behaviors in newer versions of the widget are reflected in existing copies of the widget). so i have to go replicate the behavior, again and develop a recipe, again. 3. fortunately or not, chasing this particular bear for days has resulted in a snippet in the hack repo which i hope extracts all properties for an object, standard or specific. On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 3:50 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > The widgets are identified by the reverse dns name. As long as that name > does not change, LC will use whichever version is currently installed in > the IDE. The issue is that you can’t take the LC version of a widget and > then build your own version with a new name and have the settings easily > come over. I think this export issue should really be thought of as a > bug. When a widget is exported it pulls the widget settings from the > widget and ignores the standard ones. The engine has to serialize the data > when it saves the stack so it should not be a huge issue to fix. > > Brian Milby > brian at milby7.com > > > On Sep 25, 2022, at 3:09 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > i just re-tested this, and came up with the opposite result (modifying > the > > widget and rebuilding it causes existing copies to behave the new way). > So, > > it's time to come up with a recipe for one versus the other... > > welcome to the weeds... > > > >> On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 2:28 PM Mike Kerner > >> wrote: > >> > >> and it is also 100% possible that there is something that can happen > >> during the building/testing/installing process that would explain the > >> behavior i have seen, but without knowing the expected behavior... > >> > >> On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 2:11 PM Mike Kerner > >> wrote: > >> > >>> How's this: the expected behavior is not documented (as far as I can > >>> find), so I don't know what the expected behavior is. I have tested > >>> modifying a widget, rebuilding it, and re-adding it to LC. That does > not > >>> seem to cause existing widgets to update. Is that a bug in my code, > and am > >>> I doing something wrong that is leading me down this path? 100% > absolutely, > >>> positively, maybe, and then I'm just chasing a phantom...again... > >>> I also don't think there is a documented way to see what version each > >>> widget is in a particular...widget, but I think we might be able to. > We can > >>> certainly tell which version of a widget is installed in LC (bug report > >>> 23952, whose code is going to go into the hack repo, soon). > >>> > >>> If I am write, and it is not a bug in my code, then it absolutely is a > >>> disadvantage to using widgets...until this hack is complete. > >>> > >>> On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 12:59 PM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >>> > >>>> On 9/25/2022 12:41 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > >>>>> chasing all the things that aren't documented, but you need to know > >>>> about > >>>>> LCB took me back into hacking liveCode. > >>>>> it's just getting started. if you have tools or pointers, the > >>>>> repo/wiki/issues/discussion are at > https://github.com/macMikey/LC-HACK > >>>>> Project 1: extracting all properties of a widget (because "export" > >>>> does not > >>>>> export the "base" LC object properties) and applying those properties > >>>> to an > >>>>> updated version of the widget (because LC is releasing updates to the > >>>>> megabundle widgets almost weekly) > >>>>> Project 2: documenting the LC IDE API's? > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> A clarification please: Are you saying that if I have version 1.1.2 of > >>>> PolyGrid (as an example) installed and I have made a stack using 1 or > >>>> more Polygrids and I now download and install version 1.3.1 (or some > >>>> newer version) of PolyGrid, that when I open my stack the PolyGrids in > >>>> that stack do not update from 1.1.2 to 1.3.1? > >>>> > >>>> If so, this is a terrible disadvantage of any use of widgets. I feel I > >>>> must be misunderstanding why exporting properties to re-apply them is > >>>> needed for updates. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> use-livecode mailing list > >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>>> subscription preferences: > >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > >>> On the second day, God created the oceans. > >>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > >>> and did a little diving. > >>> And God said, "This is good." > >>> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > >> On the second day, God created the oceans. > >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > >> and did a little diving. > >> And God said, "This is good." > >> > > > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From alex at tweedly.net Sun Sep 25 16:54:58 2022 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2022 21:54:58 +0100 Subject: Charts widget. Message-ID: <62253d2d-a416-a334-ccec-acd5fa3d9176@tweedly.net> Anyone using this widget ? Is there some documentation (other than the obvious dictionary entries) about how to do different kinds of chart ? In the last 4-6 months, I've done 3 or 4 little personal projects where I wanted to create a chart, but I've not been able to figure out how to use the charts widget to do time-based charts. What I mean is, e.g., create a chart for the following data .... 2022-02-01    100 2022-02-04    500 2022-02-05    525 2022-02-17    900 .... Obviously, the dates along the X-axis should be spaced properly according to their data value, not equally spaced and simply labelled. Looking at the charts.js documentation, it tells me (or rather, fails to tell me, since I can't understand it) that I need to define an 'adapter' and shows some sample javascript. I don't really understand how to do it simply in javascript - far less how I could use that in the widget. Can anyone give me a clue or a pointer ? Many thanks, Alex. P.S. currently I solved it using my own GraphMaker library (see LC conference from 2018) - but I'd really like to retire that library in favour of the new widget. From brian at milby7.com Sun Sep 25 17:07:36 2022 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2022 17:07:36 -0400 Subject: Hacking LiveCode In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Did you restart LiveCode after installing the updated widget? Brian Milby brian at milby7.com > On Sep 25, 2022, at 4:53 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > 1. is that documented, somewhere, because i cannot find it. > 2. that isn't the problem i was having. the problem i was having was that > if i took a widget (navRad, for instance), and added code to it, then > installed the new version, preexisting copies of the widget would not > execute the new code. new copies would. > so, it's 100% possible that i discovered some other behavior, but after > testing it a few times, instead of documenting the recipe, i accepted that > this was the behavior, and went about addressing it. except, today, when i > tested it, the behavior is the one that you would want (in unbuilt apps, > behaviors in newer versions of the widget are reflected in existing copies > of the widget). so i have to go replicate the behavior, again and develop a > recipe, again. > 3. fortunately or not, chasing this particular bear for days has resulted > in a snippet in the hack repo which i hope extracts all properties for an > object, standard or specific. From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sun Sep 25 17:57:33 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2022 17:57:33 -0400 Subject: Hacking LiveCode In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: that's one of the things i'm wondering about, like "did you uninstall it, or just unload it, or did you uninstall it but not unload it? did you build a new version in the test environment and test that against an existing install?" it's been days since i ran into this, and the only notes that i have on it are that i ran into it. i didn't keep track of the recipe. On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 5:08 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Did you restart LiveCode after installing the updated widget? > > Brian Milby > brian at milby7.com > > > On Sep 25, 2022, at 4:53 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > 1. is that documented, somewhere, because i cannot find it. > > 2. that isn't the problem i was having. the problem i was having was that > > if i took a widget (navRad, for instance), and added code to it, then > > installed the new version, preexisting copies of the widget would not > > execute the new code. new copies would. > > so, it's 100% possible that i discovered some other behavior, but after > > testing it a few times, instead of documenting the recipe, i accepted > that > > this was the behavior, and went about addressing it. except, today, when > i > > tested it, the behavior is the one that you would want (in unbuilt apps, > > behaviors in newer versions of the widget are reflected in existing > copies > > of the widget). so i have to go replicate the behavior, again and > develop a > > recipe, again. > > 3. fortunately or not, chasing this particular bear for days has resulted > > in a snippet in the hack repo which i hope extracts all properties for an > > object, standard or specific. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sun Sep 25 18:21:54 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2022 18:21:54 -0400 Subject: Charts widget. In-Reply-To: <62253d2d-a416-a334-ccec-acd5fa3d9176@tweedly.net> References: <62253d2d-a416-a334-ccec-acd5fa3d9176@tweedly.net> Message-ID: do you mean the graph widget? if that's what you mean, then... sorry this isn't more helpful, but to get you started, the graph.lcb file is in Tools/Extensions/com.livecode.widget.linegraph, if you want to try reading through it. it's only 1300 lines, total, including the docs. there is not that much going on. there are no private properties that i can see. On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 4:55 PM Alex Tweedly via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Anyone using this widget ? > > Is there some documentation (other than the obvious dictionary entries) > about how to do different kinds of chart ? > > In the last 4-6 months, I've done 3 or 4 little personal projects where > I wanted to create a chart, but I've not been able to figure out how to > use the charts widget to do time-based charts. > > What I mean is, e.g., create a chart for the following data .... > > 2022-02-01 100 > 2022-02-04 500 > 2022-02-05 525 > 2022-02-17 900 > .... > > Obviously, the dates along the X-axis should be spaced properly > according to their data value, not equally spaced and simply labelled. > > Looking at the charts.js documentation, it tells me (or rather, fails to > tell me, since I can't understand it) that I need to define an 'adapter' > and shows some sample javascript. I don't really understand how to do it > simply in javascript - far less how I could use that in the widget. > > Can anyone give me a clue or a pointer ? > > Many thanks, > > Alex. > > P.S. currently I solved it using my own GraphMaker library (see LC > conference from 2018) - but I'd really like to retire that library in > favour of the new widget. > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From stephen at barncard.com Sun Sep 25 18:45:57 2022 From: stephen at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2022 15:45:57 -0700 Subject: disk mounted (appleevent?) Message-ID: Hello everyone.... Yes, I'm still here! Is there a way to capture the mounting of a CD or DVD? Other than the cheesy "polling" for a disk to appear? I can't find this in the docs. Maybe not possible. Thanks in advance, sqb -- Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA - mixstream.org From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sun Sep 25 19:58:16 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2022 19:58:16 -0400 Subject: disk mounted (appleevent?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: or maybe there's an event that the os throws that can be captured... On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 6:47 PM Stephen Barncard via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hello everyone.... > > Yes, I'm still here! > > Is there a way to capture the mounting of a CD or DVD? > Other than the cheesy "polling" for a disk to appear? > I can't find this in the docs. Maybe not possible. > > Thanks in advance, sqb > -- > Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA - > mixstream.org > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Mon Sep 26 15:46:08 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 15:46:08 -0400 Subject: one field to rule them all Message-ID: does anyone know why we don't have a single field widget? i am just dipping a toe in the android waters, so do the mobilecontrol commands not work in android? the dictionary seems to say that they do. -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Sep 26 16:21:51 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 15:21:51 -0500 Subject: one field to rule them all In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1837b768f18.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> There's a native Android field, and the mobile commands also work. I usually use the commands because they offer a bit more control than the widget. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On September 26, 2022 2:48:59 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > does anyone know why we don't have a single field widget? > i am just dipping a toe in the android waters, so do the mobilecontrol > commands not work in android? the dictionary seems to say that they do. > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Mon Sep 26 16:35:14 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 16:35:14 -0400 Subject: one field to rule them all In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Is there any advantage to using the android widget vs. creating them with the commands? I'd like to make the ios and android versions of this app as close as possible, since there's already going to be a tablet and a phone version. I just wonder why all the field widgets weren't all combined into a single widget. You've got the commands to build something by hand, the android widget, the mac widget, and several field objects. I can understand having various objects if you have a situation like you do with the field objects, where the settings are different because the use-cases are different. On Mon, Sep 26, 2022 at 3:46 PM Mike Kerner wrote: > does anyone know why we don't have a single field widget? > i am just dipping a toe in the android waters, so do the mobilecontrol > commands not work in android? the dictionary seems to say that they do. > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From alex at tweedly.net Mon Sep 26 16:54:18 2022 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 21:54:18 +0100 Subject: Charts widget. In-Reply-To: References: <62253d2d-a416-a334-ccec-acd5fa3d9176@tweedly.net> Message-ID: No, I mean the chart widget (chart - not charts, my mistake). The graph (or linegraph) widget - com.livecode.widget.linegraph - does simple line graphs only. The chart widget - com.livecode.widget.chart - can do everything you ever imagined a chart could do, and more. (*) > The Chart widget is a wrapper forChart.js v3.7.0 > in LiveCode. It allows you to create > beautiful and highly customizable charts, in a simple way. Data can be > displayed as a line graph, bar chart, radar chart, donut/pie chart, > polar chart, bubble chart or scatter plot. It really is wonderful - all kinds of charts, very fast, animations, etc. The only drawback I've found so far is that doing time sequence or date sequence charts needs some extra magic, and I don't know how to find that magic. Thanks for the suggestion of reading the .lcb; I probably couldn't have made sense of it anyway - but there is no .lcb file for the chart widget. It's just my bad luck that all the charts I want to do are the kind that is beyond me :-) Alex. (*) not quite true, I don't think it can do the complex time + bubble animations that Hans Rosling uses to such amazing effect - https://singularityhub.com/2010/12/09/hans-rosling-shows-you-200-years-of-global-growth-in-4-minutes-video/ On 25/09/2022 23:21, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > do you mean the graph widget? > if that's what you mean, then... > sorry this isn't more helpful, but to get you started, the graph.lcb file > is in Tools/Extensions/com.livecode.widget.linegraph, if you want to try > reading through it. > it's only 1300 lines, total, including the docs. there is not that much > going on. > there are no private properties that i can see. > > On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 4:55 PM Alex Tweedly via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Anyone using this widget ? >> >> Is there some documentation (other than the obvious dictionary entries) >> about how to do different kinds of chart ? >> >> In the last 4-6 months, I've done 3 or 4 little personal projects where >> I wanted to create a chart, but I've not been able to figure out how to >> use the charts widget to do time-based charts. >> >> What I mean is, e.g., create a chart for the following data .... >> >> 2022-02-01 100 >> 2022-02-04 500 >> 2022-02-05 525 >> 2022-02-17 900 >> .... >> >> Obviously, the dates along the X-axis should be spaced properly >> according to their data value, not equally spaced and simply labelled. >> >> Looking at the charts.js documentation, it tells me (or rather, fails to >> tell me, since I can't understand it) that I need to define an 'adapter' >> and shows some sample javascript. I don't really understand how to do it >> simply in javascript - far less how I could use that in the widget. >> >> Can anyone give me a clue or a pointer ? >> >> Many thanks, >> >> Alex. >> >> P.S. currently I solved it using my own GraphMaker library (see LC >> conference from 2018) - but I'd really like to retire that library in >> favour of the new widget. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > From paul at researchware.com Mon Sep 26 17:08:20 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 17:08:20 -0400 Subject: Charts widget. In-Reply-To: References: <62253d2d-a416-a334-ccec-acd5fa3d9176@tweedly.net> Message-ID: Where the heck is the chart widget (com.livecode.widget.chart)? It is not among the widgets in LC 9.6.8 or added by the Summer Bundle? Is it from LC or a 3rd party? If so from where? From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Mon Sep 26 17:11:28 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 17:11:28 -0400 Subject: Charts widget. In-Reply-To: References: <62253d2d-a416-a334-ccec-acd5fa3d9176@tweedly.net> Message-ID: well, i learned something new. i don't even see that widget in 9, but i do in 10. On Mon, Sep 26, 2022 at 4:54 PM Alex Tweedly via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > No, I mean the chart widget (chart - not charts, my mistake). > > The graph (or linegraph) widget - com.livecode.widget.linegraph - does > simple line graphs only. > > The chart widget - com.livecode.widget.chart - can do everything you > ever imagined a chart could do, and more. (*) > > > The Chart widget is a wrapper forChart.js v3.7.0 > > in LiveCode. It allows you to create > > beautiful and highly customizable charts, in a simple way. Data can be > > displayed as a line graph, bar chart, radar chart, donut/pie chart, > > polar chart, bubble chart or scatter plot. > It really is wonderful - all kinds of charts, very fast, animations, > etc. The only drawback I've found so far is that doing time sequence or > date sequence charts needs some extra magic, and I don't know how to > find that magic. > > Thanks for the suggestion of reading the .lcb; I probably couldn't have > made sense of it anyway - but there is no .lcb file for the chart widget. > > It's just my bad luck that all the charts I want to do are the kind that > is beyond me :-) > > Alex. > > (*) not quite true, I don't think it can do the complex time + bubble > animations that Hans Rosling uses to such amazing effect - > > https://singularityhub.com/2010/12/09/hans-rosling-shows-you-200-years-of-global-growth-in-4-minutes-video/ > > On 25/09/2022 23:21, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > do you mean the graph widget? > > if that's what you mean, then... > > sorry this isn't more helpful, but to get you started, the graph.lcb file > > is in Tools/Extensions/com.livecode.widget.linegraph, if you want to try > > reading through it. > > it's only 1300 lines, total, including the docs. there is not that much > > going on. > > there are no private properties that i can see. > > > > On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 4:55 PM Alex Tweedly via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > >> Anyone using this widget ? > >> > >> Is there some documentation (other than the obvious dictionary entries) > >> about how to do different kinds of chart ? > >> > >> In the last 4-6 months, I've done 3 or 4 little personal projects where > >> I wanted to create a chart, but I've not been able to figure out how to > >> use the charts widget to do time-based charts. > >> > >> What I mean is, e.g., create a chart for the following data .... > >> > >> 2022-02-01 100 > >> 2022-02-04 500 > >> 2022-02-05 525 > >> 2022-02-17 900 > >> .... > >> > >> Obviously, the dates along the X-axis should be spaced properly > >> according to their data value, not equally spaced and simply labelled. > >> > >> Looking at the charts.js documentation, it tells me (or rather, fails to > >> tell me, since I can't understand it) that I need to define an 'adapter' > >> and shows some sample javascript. I don't really understand how to do it > >> simply in javascript - far less how I could use that in the widget. > >> > >> Can anyone give me a clue or a pointer ? > >> > >> Many thanks, > >> > >> Alex. > >> > >> P.S. currently I solved it using my own GraphMaker library (see LC > >> conference from 2018) - but I'd really like to retire that library in > >> favour of the new widget. > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From paul at researchware.com Mon Sep 26 17:26:05 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 17:26:05 -0400 Subject: Charts widget. In-Reply-To: References: <62253d2d-a416-a334-ccec-acd5fa3d9176@tweedly.net> Message-ID: Yes, I see it in LC10.0.0dp4. It must be a new widget for LC10, possibly only working in LC10 and not earlier versions? Thank you for directing me to 10. On 9/26/2022 5:11 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > well, i learned something new. > i don't even see that widget in 9, but i do in 10. > > On Mon, Sep 26, 2022 at 4:54 PM Alex Tweedly via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> No, I mean the chart widget (chart - not charts, my mistake). >> >> The graph (or linegraph) widget - com.livecode.widget.linegraph - does >> simple line graphs only. >> >> The chart widget - com.livecode.widget.chart - can do everything you >> ever imagined a chart could do, and more. (*) >> >>> The Chart widget is a wrapper forChart.js v3.7.0 >>> in LiveCode. It allows you to create >>> beautiful and highly customizable charts, in a simple way. Data can be >>> displayed as a line graph, bar chart, radar chart, donut/pie chart, >>> polar chart, bubble chart or scatter plot. >> It really is wonderful - all kinds of charts, very fast, animations, >> etc. The only drawback I've found so far is that doing time sequence or >> date sequence charts needs some extra magic, and I don't know how to >> find that magic. >> >> Thanks for the suggestion of reading the .lcb; I probably couldn't have >> made sense of it anyway - but there is no .lcb file for the chart widget. >> >> It's just my bad luck that all the charts I want to do are the kind that >> is beyond me :-) >> >> Alex. >> >> (*) not quite true, I don't think it can do the complex time + bubble >> animations that Hans Rosling uses to such amazing effect - >> >> https://singularityhub.com/2010/12/09/hans-rosling-shows-you-200-years-of-global-growth-in-4-minutes-video/ >> >> On 25/09/2022 23:21, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: >>> do you mean the graph widget? >>> if that's what you mean, then... >>> sorry this isn't more helpful, but to get you started, the graph.lcb file >>> is in Tools/Extensions/com.livecode.widget.linegraph, if you want to try >>> reading through it. >>> it's only 1300 lines, total, including the docs. there is not that much >>> going on. >>> there are no private properties that i can see. >>> >>> On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 4:55 PM Alex Tweedly via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Anyone using this widget ? >>>> >>>> Is there some documentation (other than the obvious dictionary entries) >>>> about how to do different kinds of chart ? >>>> >>>> In the last 4-6 months, I've done 3 or 4 little personal projects where >>>> I wanted to create a chart, but I've not been able to figure out how to >>>> use the charts widget to do time-based charts. >>>> >>>> What I mean is, e.g., create a chart for the following data .... >>>> >>>> 2022-02-01 100 >>>> 2022-02-04 500 >>>> 2022-02-05 525 >>>> 2022-02-17 900 >>>> .... >>>> >>>> Obviously, the dates along the X-axis should be spaced properly >>>> according to their data value, not equally spaced and simply labelled. >>>> >>>> Looking at the charts.js documentation, it tells me (or rather, fails to >>>> tell me, since I can't understand it) that I need to define an 'adapter' >>>> and shows some sample javascript. I don't really understand how to do it >>>> simply in javascript - far less how I could use that in the widget. >>>> >>>> Can anyone give me a clue or a pointer ? >>>> >>>> Many thanks, >>>> >>>> Alex. >>>> >>>> P.S. currently I solved it using my own GraphMaker library (see LC >>>> conference from 2018) - but I'd really like to retire that library in >>>> favour of the new widget. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > From alex at tweedly.net Mon Sep 26 19:09:29 2022 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2022 00:09:29 +0100 Subject: Charts widget. In-Reply-To: References: <62253d2d-a416-a334-ccec-acd5fa3d9176@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <6693b5fb-6e6f-1d34-1dda-3c7ff6b7d57c@tweedly.net> Yes, first appeared in 10..0DP2 https://livecode.com/livecode-10-dp-2-charts-guidelines-web-browser-widget-and-more/ Alex. On 26/09/2022 22:26, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > Yes, I see it in LC10.0.0dp4. It must be a new widget for LC10, > possibly only working in LC10 and not earlier versions? > > Thank you for directing me to 10. > > > On 9/26/2022 5:11 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: >> well, i learned something new. >> i don't even see that widget in 9, but i do in 10. >> >> On Mon, Sep 26, 2022 at 4:54 PM Alex Tweedly via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>> No, I mean the chart widget (chart - not charts, my mistake). >>> >>> The graph (or linegraph) widget - com.livecode.widget.linegraph - does >>> simple line graphs only. >>> >>> The chart widget - com.livecode.widget.chart - can do everything you >>> ever imagined a chart could do, and more. (*) >>> >>>> The Chart widget is a wrapper forChart.js v3.7.0 >>>> in LiveCode. It allows you to create >>>> beautiful and highly customizable charts, in a simple way. Data can be >>>> displayed as a line graph, bar chart, radar chart, donut/pie chart, >>>> polar chart, bubble chart or scatter plot. >>> It really is wonderful - all kinds of charts, very fast, animations, >>> etc. The only drawback I've found so far is that doing time sequence or >>> date sequence charts needs some extra magic, and I don't know how to >>> find that magic. >>> >>> Thanks for the suggestion of reading the .lcb; I probably couldn't have >>> made sense of it anyway - but there is no .lcb file for the chart >>> widget. >>> >>> It's just my bad luck that all the charts I want to do are the kind >>> that >>> is beyond me :-) >>> >>> Alex. >>> >>> (*) not quite true, I don't think it can do the complex time + bubble >>> animations that Hans Rosling uses to such amazing effect - >>> >>> https://singularityhub.com/2010/12/09/hans-rosling-shows-you-200-years-of-global-growth-in-4-minutes-video/ >>> >>> >>> On 25/09/2022 23:21, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: >>>> do you mean the graph widget? >>>> if that's what you mean, then... >>>> sorry this isn't more helpful, but to get you started, the >>>> graph.lcb file >>>> is in Tools/Extensions/com.livecode.widget.linegraph, if you want >>>> to try >>>> reading through it. >>>> it's only 1300 lines, total, including the docs. there is not that >>>> much >>>> going on. >>>> there are no private properties that i can see. >>>> >>>> On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 4:55 PM Alex Tweedly via use-livecode < >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Anyone using this widget ? >>>>> >>>>> Is there some documentation (other than the obvious dictionary >>>>> entries) >>>>> about how to do different kinds of chart ? >>>>> >>>>> In the last 4-6 months, I've done 3 or 4 little personal projects >>>>> where >>>>> I wanted to create a chart, but I've not been able to figure out >>>>> how to >>>>> use the charts widget to do time-based charts. >>>>> >>>>> What I mean is, e.g., create a chart for the following data .... >>>>> >>>>> 2022-02-01    100 >>>>> 2022-02-04    500 >>>>> 2022-02-05    525 >>>>> 2022-02-17    900 >>>>> .... >>>>> >>>>> Obviously, the dates along the X-axis should be spaced properly >>>>> according to their data value, not equally spaced and simply >>>>> labelled. >>>>> >>>>> Looking at the charts.js documentation, it tells me (or rather, >>>>> fails to >>>>> tell me, since I can't understand it) that I need to define an >>>>> 'adapter' >>>>> and shows some sample javascript. I don't really understand how to >>>>> do it >>>>> simply in javascript - far less how I could use that in the widget. >>>>> >>>>> Can anyone give me a clue or a pointer ? >>>>> >>>>> Many thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Alex. >>>>> >>>>> P.S. currently I solved it using my own GraphMaker library (see LC >>>>> conference from 2018) - but I'd really like to retire that library in >>>>> favour of the new widget. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dan at clearvisiontech.com Mon Sep 26 20:48:51 2022 From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2022 00:48:51 +0000 Subject: Images in Push Messages Message-ID: We're trying to add images to push messages. Can't seem to get it to work (starting with Android first). Anyone have any knowledge on this? I wouldn't think so, but Is there something I have to set in the LC app? Any guidance anyone might have would be appreciated! -Dan From benr_mc at cogapp.com Tue Sep 27 06:22:23 2022 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2022 11:22:23 +0100 Subject: Ignoring accented characters In-Reply-To: <438ffe4e04dfebdc0411bdfede465504@souslelogo.com> References: <438ffe4e04dfebdc0411bdfede465504@souslelogo.com> Message-ID: <0d81046e-7e99-3f58-7bdc-be9beceabfd8@cogapp.com> Hi jbv, This one of a number of gaps that exist in the jungle of character processing in LiveCode. I don't think there is a 'diacriticSensitive' property. Some part of LiveCode are clever about accents, see e.g. https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15312 https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15443 As you note, it would be useful if there was a built-in function to strip diacritics, which has been requested (for 14 years now): https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=6450 One trick that can be used in some contexts is to put the text into a field, retrieve the htmlText of the fields - which encodes many accented characters as entity names - and reduce these entity names back to the unaccented character. There's also an enhancement request (pending for over 18 years) to expose this functionality without the need to use a field - useful for many purposes, not just for stripping accents: https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1372 This especially ought to be a cheap enhancement, since LC evidently incorporates the necessary tables already. Putting text through html entities is not a perfect solution to implementing a "stripDiacritics" function, because e.g. you might render "—" as "m"; but as far as I know, currently it's either that or encode your own tables. Ben On 16/09/2022 15:10, jbv via use-livecode wrote: > Hi list, > > Is there a way to ignore accented characters in LC, like in mySQL > for instance ? > Here's an example : I need these 2 array items below to be considered > as 1 single entity : >   add 1 to myArray["interprtation"] >   add 1 to myArray["interpretation"] > > Of course, I can write a function that removes accents, but I was > wondering if there was a built-in function in LC to do that, in a > similar logic as "set the casesentive to false" for instance. > > Thanks you in advance. > jbv > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From merakosp at gmail.com Tue Sep 27 07:44:35 2022 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis m) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2022 14:44:35 +0300 Subject: Images in Push Messages In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Dan, Have you provided a "Status Bar Icon" in the Android standalone settings? If yes, what icons have you tried? I think colored icons are no longer allowed, in recent Android versions. The icons have to be png images, and they need to be white on black or transparent only, otherwise they display as a gray square area. You can check some samples on the web, e.g. here: https://romannurik.github.io/AndroidAssetStudio/icons-notification.html#source.type=clipart&source.clipart=place&source.space.trim=1&source.space.pad=0&name=ic_stat_place Hope this helps. Please let us know if this works for you. Kind regards, Panos On Tue, 27 Sept 2022 at 03:50, Dan Friedman via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > We're trying to add images to push messages. Can't seem to get it to work > (starting with Android first). Anyone have any knowledge on this? I > wouldn't think so, but Is there something I have to set in the LC app? > Any guidance anyone might have would be appreciated! > > -Dan > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From jbv at souslelogo.com Tue Sep 27 11:00:55 2022 From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2022 11:00:55 -0400 Subject: Ignoring accented characters In-Reply-To: <0d81046e-7e99-3f58-7bdc-be9beceabfd8@cogapp.com> References: <438ffe4e04dfebdc0411bdfede465504@souslelogo.com> <0d81046e-7e99-3f58-7bdc-be9beceabfd8@cogapp.com> Message-ID: Hello Ben, Thank you for your detailed answer. So far, I only have to deal with french text so I only need a list of diacritic vowels and a list of the chars used as replacement : aaaeeeeiioouuuy With a simple loop it is feasible and it doesn't slow down my scripts significantly. But indeed, a 'diacriticSensitive' property would be really helpful. jbv Le 2022-09-27 06:22, Ben Rubinstein a crit : > Hi jbv, > > This one of a number of gaps that exist in the jungle of character > processing in LiveCode. > > I don't think there is a 'diacriticSensitive' property. Some part of > LiveCode are clever about accents, see e.g. > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15312 > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15443 > > As you note, it would be useful if there was a built-in function to > strip diacritics, which has been requested (for 14 years now): > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=6450 > > One trick that can be used in some contexts is to put the text into a > field, retrieve the htmlText of the fields - which encodes many > accented characters as entity names - and reduce these entity names > back to the unaccented character. > > There's also an enhancement request (pending for over 18 years) to > expose this functionality without the need to use a field - useful for > many purposes, not just for stripping accents: > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1372 > > This especially ought to be a cheap enhancement, since LC evidently > incorporates the necessary tables already. > > Putting text through html entities is not a perfect solution to > implementing a "stripDiacritics" function, because e.g. you might > render "—" as "m"; but as far as I know, currently it's either > that or encode your own tables. > > Ben > > > On 16/09/2022 15:10, jbv via use-livecode wrote: >> Hi list, >> >> Is there a way to ignore accented characters in LC, like in mySQL >> for instance ? >> Here's an example : I need these 2 array items below to be considered >> as 1 single entity : >>   add 1 to myArray["interprtation"] >>   add 1 to myArray["interpretation"] >> >> Of course, I can write a function that removes accents, but I was >> wondering if there was a built-in function in LC to do that, in a >> similar logic as "set the casesentive to false" for instance. >> >> Thanks you in advance. >> jbv >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dan at clearvisiontech.com Tue Sep 27 11:02:17 2022 From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2022 15:02:17 +0000 Subject: Images in Push Messages In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Panos, Yes, I have the icon in place and its showing just fine. It's not the icon I'm working on... it's an actual image within the message (Like this: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/pluralsight/guides/master/images/df051757-9a09-417b-a77a-8192c984b9a4.png). In some more research, I ran into this: https://developer.android.com/develop/ui/views/notifications/build-notification Does LC use the " NotificationCompat" when building packages? Thank you! Dan Friedman CEO, ClearVision Technologies, LLC Voice: 909/484-2052 http://www.clearvisiontech.com On 9/27/22, 4:46 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of panagiotis m via use-livecode" wrote: Hello Dan, Have you provided a "Status Bar Icon" in the Android standalone settings? If yes, what icons have you tried? I think colored icons are no longer allowed, in recent Android versions. The icons have to be png images, and they need to be white on black or transparent only, otherwise they display as a gray square area. You can check some samples on the web, e.g. here: https://romannurik.github.io/AndroidAssetStudio/icons-notification.html#source.type=clipart&source.clipart=place&source.space.trim=1&source.space.pad=0&name=ic_stat_place Hope this helps. Please let us know if this works for you. Kind regards, Panos On Tue, 27 Sept 2022 at 03:50, Dan Friedman via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > We're trying to add images to push messages. Can't seem to get it to work > (starting with Android first). Anyone have any knowledge on this? I > wouldn't think so, but Is there something I have to set in the LC app? > Any guidance anyone might have would be appreciated! > > -Dan > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From merakosp at gmail.com Tue Sep 27 11:29:09 2022 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis m) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2022 18:29:09 +0300 Subject: Images in Push Messages In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Dan, Ah I see. Hmm. Nope, we do not use "NotificationCompat". How are you sending the notifications? Are you using the Firebase Console? if yes, I am wondering if you could just provide an image in the "Notification Image (optional)" field here: https://console.firebase.google.com/u/0/project/pushnotificationtestlc965/notification/compose Kind regards, Panos -- On Tue, 27 Sept 2022 at 18:02, Dan Friedman wrote: > Panos, > > Yes, I have the icon in place and its showing just fine. It's not the > icon I'm working on... it's an actual image within the message (Like this: > https://raw.githubusercontent.com/pluralsight/guides/master/images/df051757-9a09-417b-a77a-8192c984b9a4.png). > In some more research, I ran into this: > > > https://developer.android.com/develop/ui/views/notifications/build-notification > > Does LC use the " NotificationCompat" when building packages? > > > Thank you! > > Dan Friedman > CEO, ClearVision Technologies, LLC > Voice: 909/484-2052 > http://www.clearvisiontech.com > > > On 9/27/22, 4:46 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of panagiotis m via > use-livecode" use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > Hello Dan, > > Have you provided a "Status Bar Icon" in the Android standalone > settings? > If yes, what icons have you tried? I think colored icons are no longer > allowed, in recent Android versions. > > The icons have to be png images, and they need to be white on black or > transparent only, otherwise they display as a gray square area. > > You can check some samples on the web, e.g. here: > > > https://romannurik.github.io/AndroidAssetStudio/icons-notification.html#source.type=clipart&source.clipart=place&source.space.trim=1&source.space.pad=0&name=ic_stat_place > > Hope this helps. > > Please let us know if this works for you. > > Kind regards, > Panos > > On Tue, 27 Sept 2022 at 03:50, Dan Friedman via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > We're trying to add images to push messages. Can't seem to get it > to work > > (starting with Android first). Anyone have any knowledge on this? > I > > wouldn't think so, but Is there something I have to set in the LC > app? > > Any guidance anyone might have would be appreciated! > > > > -Dan > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > From tom at makeshyft.com Fri Sep 30 11:05:13 2022 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2022 11:05:13 -0400 Subject: one field to rule them all In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mike, if you have the bundle and the appstarterstack, you can view the examples there. On Mon, Sep 26, 2022 at 4:36 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Is there any advantage to using the android widget vs. creating them > with the commands? I'd like to make the ios and android versions of this > app as close as possible, since there's already going to be a tablet and > a phone version. > I just wonder why all the field widgets weren't all combined into a single > widget. You've got the commands to build something by hand, the android > widget, the mac widget, and several field objects. I can understand having > various objects if you have a situation like you do with the field objects, > where the settings are different because the use-cases are different. > > On Mon, Sep 26, 2022 at 3:46 PM Mike Kerner > wrote: > > > does anyone know why we don't have a single field widget? > > i am just dipping a toe in the android waters, so do the mobilecontrol > > commands not work in android? the dictionary seems to say that they do. > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 30 13:12:29 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2022 17:12:29 +0000 Subject: RegEx to convert standard date to sql date Message-ID: <3AD0C9C1-5AA3-465B-A371-833CD66F8AB3@iotecdigital.com> I'm trying to convert a date format like mm/dd/yyyy to an sql date format yyyymmdd. Any ideas? Nothing I found on the interwebs seems to work. Bob S From jacques.clavel at gmail.com Fri Sep 30 13:38:16 2022 From: jacques.clavel at gmail.com (Jacques Clavel) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2022 19:38:16 +0200 Subject: RegEx to convert standard date to sql date In-Reply-To: <3AD0C9C1-5AA3-465B-A371-833CD66F8AB3@iotecdigital.com> References: <3AD0C9C1-5AA3-465B-A371-833CD66F8AB3@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Why not : set itemdel to "/" get tDate put item 3 of it & item 1 of it & item 2 of it into tSql JC Le ven. 30 sept. 2022 à 19:13, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> a écrit : > I'm trying to convert a date format like mm/dd/yyyy to an sql date format > yyyymmdd. Any ideas? Nothing I found on the interwebs seems to work. > > Bob S > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Jacques Clavel From keith.clarke at me.com Fri Sep 30 13:41:05 2022 From: keith.clarke at me.com (Keith Clarke) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2022 18:41:05 +0100 Subject: RegEx to convert standard date to sql date In-Reply-To: <3AD0C9C1-5AA3-465B-A371-833CD66F8AB3@iotecdigital.com> References: <3AD0C9C1-5AA3-465B-A371-833CD66F8AB3@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <0CC9B6CB-FF26-47BD-9D84-844B040AF21B@me.com> If it's always this standard string 'tDate' why not avoid Regex and just set the delimiters of tDate to "/" and then put item 3 of tDate & item 2 of tDate and put item 1 of tDate? Best, Keith > On 30 Sep 2022, at 18:13, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > I'm trying to convert a date format like mm/dd/yyyy to an sql date format yyyymmdd. Any ideas? Nothing I found on the interwebs seems to work. > > Bob S > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From tom at makeshyft.com Fri Sep 30 13:49:52 2022 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2022 13:49:52 -0400 Subject: RegEx to convert standard date to sql date In-Reply-To: <0CC9B6CB-FF26-47BD-9D84-844B040AF21B@me.com> References: <3AD0C9C1-5AA3-465B-A371-833CD66F8AB3@iotecdigital.com> <0CC9B6CB-FF26-47BD-9D84-844B040AF21B@me.com> Message-ID: Regex is overkill for this ..... i would handcode the translation like Keith mentioned. On Fri, Sep 30, 2022 at 1:42 PM Keith Clarke via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > If it's always this standard string 'tDate' why not avoid Regex and just > set the delimiters of tDate to "/" and then put item 3 of tDate & item 2 of > tDate and put item 1 of tDate? > Best, > Keith > > > On 30 Sep 2022, at 18:13, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > I'm trying to convert a date format like mm/dd/yyyy to an sql date > format yyyymmdd. Any ideas? Nothing I found on the interwebs seems to work. > > > > Bob S > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From gcanyon at gmail.com Fri Sep 30 15:12:46 2022 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2022 12:12:46 -0700 Subject: Quick and simple web demos? Message-ID: Back in the day, I would create quick and simple demos of something I was building as a concept, create standalones, and send them to the people I wanted to demonstrate to. As an example of an example, suppose I wanted to build a simple Eliza-like chatbot. I could throw a field on a card, put a "start chat" button on it, and build logic in the field or the card to get the job done. A few message handlers for EnterInField and ReturnInField would get the job done. These days there are at least two flaws with that approach: 1. Often the people I want to demo to are using work computers that are locked down from random app installs. 2. Sometimes I want to build a demo the world at large can see, and clearly installing an app from some random person is not the way to do that anymore. SO: is it accurate to say: 1. The above is possible 2. I'd need a web-accessible place to store the files -- would google drive be sufficient? 3. I'd need to add an HTML5 license to my account Any best references for steps to follow? Thanks, Geoff From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 30 18:44:47 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2022 22:44:47 +0000 Subject: RegEx to convert standard date to sql date In-Reply-To: References: <3AD0C9C1-5AA3-465B-A371-833CD66F8AB3@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <78BFC9D5-B6C4-45B3-BCEB-C9D00B494984@iotecdigital.com> Well it's like this. I am working in a document management system, and when I capture a date, I want to convert it to an sql date. I am not working in Livecode for this. Bob S > On Sep 30, 2022, at 10:38 , Jacques Clavel via use-livecode wrote: > > Why not : > set itemdel to "/" > get tDate > put item 3 of it & item 1 of it & item 2 of it into tSql > > JC > > Le ven. 30 sept. 2022 à 19:13, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> a écrit : > >> I'm trying to convert a date format like mm/dd/yyyy to an sql date format >> yyyymmdd. Any ideas? Nothing I found on the interwebs seems to work. >> >> Bob S >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > -- > Jacques Clavel > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From alex at tweedly.net Fri Sep 30 20:11:40 2022 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2022 01:11:40 +0100 Subject: Quick and simple web demos? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4f9d310e-ac2f-9898-add9-39c1f6818e31@tweedly.net> Short answers: 1. Yes 2. Yes, but probably not. 3. Yes. Long answers. 1. Yes, absolutely, it's ideal for quick, easy-to-distribute apps or demo samples. 2. Yes, you'll need somewhere to store/give access to the files. But it probably won't be Google Drive - you want the files of the app to each be accessible via https: (and there are assumptions about their relative position in the default build version - may be possible to over-ride them and use Google Drive, but I suspect lots more work. Easiest is to just have a web server and put the bundle created by  build-for-web up there. 3. Yes. 4. There are a few samples, etc. https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1496056-how-do-i-put-my-first-app-on-the-web-lc-10-and-later Note this uses the default-built HTML file, which is pretty unappealing. The discussion on the comments says something about replacing it, or there have been other examples on the uselist and (more) on the forums about this. In one of the LC Global conferences fairly recently, Steve Crighton and Michael Macreary did a web app, with custom html/LCS to interact to handle resizing etc. Sorry - don't know which one it was, and the poor indexing/naming makes it tedious to try to find. It's all a bit complex and barely documented for now, but will improve before actual release. Alex. On 30/09/2022 20:12, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode wrote: > Back in the day, I would create quick and simple demos of something I was > building as a concept, create standalones, and send them to the people I > wanted to demonstrate to. As an example of an example, suppose I wanted to > build a simple Eliza-like chatbot. I could throw a field on a card, put a > "start chat" button on it, and build logic in the field or the card to get > the job done. A few message handlers for EnterInField and ReturnInField > would get the job done. > > These days there are at least two flaws with that approach: > > 1. Often the people I want to demo to are using work computers that are > locked down from random app installs. > 2. Sometimes I want to build a demo the world at large can see, and clearly > installing an app from some random person is not the way to do that anymore. > > SO: is it accurate to say: > > 1. The above is possible > 2. I'd need a web-accessible place to store the files -- would google drive > be sufficient? > 3. I'd need to add an HTML5 license to my account > > Any best references for steps to follow? > > Thanks, > > Geoff > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ahsoftware at sonic.net Fri Sep 30 21:03:03 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2022 18:03:03 -0700 Subject: Quick and simple web demos? In-Reply-To: <4f9d310e-ac2f-9898-add9-39c1f6818e31@tweedly.net> References: <4f9d310e-ac2f-9898-add9-39c1f6818e31@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <1c2b91f5-739e-a661-d07e-7dc73d60df29@sonic.net> On 9/30/22 17:11, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote: > and the poor indexing/naming makes it tedious to try to find. ...and speaking of poor indexing etc... I was looking for a way to point the svgicon widget to an external svg file and finding that for some reason this isn't built into the widget. So I want online to livecodeshare and typed "svg" into the search field. Upper case. Lower case. Didn't matter - I still got zero results, even though I know there are several stacks to deal with svg files. Thank you so much for your Sample Stacks plugin, which does the job SO much better than that stupid web site. Still don't have an answer to my problem, but at least I can search properly. Over time I've gradually been replacing parts of my development environment with improvements: tinyDictionary, etc. Waiting for someone to build a better Proj Browser. BTW... I typed "Sample stacks" into the web search field and got 57 hits, only one of which had anything to do with sample stacks. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From sean at pidigital.co.uk Thu Sep 1 00:08:54 2022 From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Sean Cole) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 05:08:54 +0100 Subject: Livecode / Github In-Reply-To: <3ba1188d-59d4-c5d7-3f8e-262529b5ccfc@sonic.net> References: <9ECE2480-BAAB-4E8A-B97D-70F2153A91C3@pidigital.co.uk> <8b549acf-8e33-a468-d7e8-3c1fa6ce7c34@sonic.net> <56eb98b4-b369-aefa-54d3-eb12f220b87c@sonic.net> <3ba1188d-59d4-c5d7-3f8e-262529b5ccfc@sonic.net> Message-ID: Yeah, I could really do with it giving me some feedback as to where this object is. Actually, I could... ... I just wrote a plugin for it. Use scCreatePlugin "","" (scCreatePlugin on its own doesn't work from the message box like the dictionary suggests). Then in the script I used global gLastObject on savingProperties pLongId, @pProperteis --> your code put "saving properties of" && pLongId into gLastObject put word -2 to -1 of gLastObject wait 0.01 millisec with messages end savingProperties ---- Once I ran this it displayed which substack it was working on in the message box and once it had failed the global showed me the last parameter it had successfully accessed. Cool. But I still can't work out which parameter of either that object (a standard text field) or the next (a group with no behaviours or anything out of the ordinary as far as I can tell). I'll come back to it tomorrow. It's silly o'clock now. Sean On Wed, 31 Aug 2022 at 17:13, Mark Wieder via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 8/31/22 03:00, Sean Cole via use-livecode wrote: > > > LC Team: :-) It would be REALLY handy if proper errors were thrown when > one > > occurs that can help us easily understand what the issues are. Also, if > > prior to release documentation were gone through to make sure they are > > legible. And if plugins released actually work as described. :-) > > Actually, it's even worse. > The result is empty if no error occurred and "* successful" if it > worked. To me that seems backwards. > > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23911 > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From gcanyon at gmail.com Thu Sep 1 00:54:58 2022 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2022 21:54:58 -0700 Subject: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <816C27F1-2EFD-47F9-A507-46245A41158A@gmail.com> <69F805E3-DF6D-4403-BE3E-84CAB718344B@milby7.com> Message-ID: Agreed -- I've put off LCB because I don't much bother with widgets. I suppose I could update Navigator, but it already works well, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ So if it isn't faster, dare I say it, why would I? gc On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 5:54 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > It would be interesting if lcb was slower, since it's supposed to be > lower-level. > The demo that Steven did, demonstrating the speed of populating a polyGrid > (lcb widget) vs. a dataGrid (lcs group) was that it was much, much faster. > > On Tue, Aug 30, 2022 at 5:58 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > LCB has been slower than LCS, but the advantage is that you can easily > > link to much faster compiler code. I’m not sure if that has changed > any… I > > could pull out some code from a while back where we were doing some speed > > tests. > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > On Aug 30, 2022, at 5:31 PM, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > > > Is there a page that discusses the pros of LCB? I looked and didn’t > > find it. > > > > > > I’m thinking of a simple list (I’m making this up because I didn’t find > > the page) > > > > > > — N times faster execution than LCS > > > — interface with code libraries using simple hooks > > > — bundle code and graphics together into widgets > > > > > > More? > > > > > > gc > > > > > >>> On Aug 28, 2022, at 11:27 AM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> On 8/28/22 11:06, Mike Kerner wrote: > > >>> the lcb documentation, especially in the api widget is ungreat. > > >>> the good news is that as long as there is an oss repo version of LC, > > you can hunt for some of the information that is missing. AND, at least > for > > now, you can still find much of it in the LC application > > >>> example: as i was hunting, i found a bunch of editors, but none of > > them seem to be documented anywhere obvious. > > >> > > >> Yep - I find most of my documentation by digging. > > >> > > >> The lack of colornames just bit me earlier this week and I had to > > backpedal and code a list of a dozen color names as "R,G,B". Even the > > "#FFFFFF" format isn't accepted. > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Mark Wieder > > >> ahsoftware at gmail.com > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> use-livecode mailing list > > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From gcanyon at gmail.com Thu Sep 1 02:25:38 2022 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2022 23:25:38 -0700 Subject: Livecode / Github In-Reply-To: References: <9ECE2480-BAAB-4E8A-B97D-70F2153A91C3@pidigital.co.uk> <8b549acf-8e33-a468-d7e8-3c1fa6ce7c34@sonic.net> <56eb98b4-b369-aefa-54d3-eb12f220b87c@sonic.net> <3ba1188d-59d4-c5d7-3f8e-262529b5ccfc@sonic.net> Message-ID: So all this discussion reminded me that I wrote an export/import stack some time ago. I definitely don't still have a copy on my computer, so I went looking on the web: geoff canyon livecode export -- nothing useful, maybe it was in the runrev era? geoff canyon runrev export -- no luck. I remembered that I used XML formatting for the export. Something like XML Geoff Canyon export did the trick. 21 years ago? What?? Then off to archive.org to find the actual file: mcripper.mc And... I'm looking at my ancient history! I'm curious to try it on a large stack and see how it does. gc On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 9:10 PM Sean Cole via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Yeah, I could really do with it giving me some feedback as to where this > object is. Actually, I could... > ... I just wrote a plugin for it. Use scCreatePlugin "","" (scCreatePlugin > on its own doesn't work from the message box like the dictionary suggests). > Then in the script I used > > global gLastObject > > on savingProperties pLongId, @pProperteis > --> your code > put "saving properties of" && pLongId into gLastObject > put word -2 to -1 of gLastObject > wait 0.01 millisec with messages > end savingProperties > > ---- > > Once I ran this it displayed which substack it was working on in the > message box and once it had failed the global showed me the last parameter > it had successfully accessed. Cool. But I still can't work out which > parameter of either that object (a standard text field) or the next (a > group with no behaviours or anything out of the ordinary as far as I can > tell). I'll come back to it tomorrow. It's silly o'clock now. > > Sean > > On Wed, 31 Aug 2022 at 17:13, Mark Wieder via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > On 8/31/22 03:00, Sean Cole via use-livecode wrote: > > > > > LC Team: :-) It would be REALLY handy if proper errors were thrown when > > one > > > occurs that can help us easily understand what the issues are. Also, if > > > prior to release documentation were gone through to make sure they are > > > legible. And if plugins released actually work as described. :-) > > > > Actually, it's even worse. > > The result is empty if no error occurred and "* successful" if it > > worked. To me that seems backwards. > > > > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23911 > > > > -- > > Mark Wieder > > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu Sep 1 08:47:47 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 08:47:47 -0400 Subject: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <816C27F1-2EFD-47F9-A507-46245A41158A@gmail.com> <69F805E3-DF6D-4403-BE3E-84CAB718344B@milby7.com> Message-ID: I don't know why you would. Libraries that aren't trying to get into system-level API's don't need to be there. On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 12:56 AM Geoff Canyon via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Agreed -- I've put off LCB because I don't much bother with widgets. I > suppose I could update Navigator, but it already works well, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ > > So if it isn't faster, dare I say it, why would I? > > gc > > On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 5:54 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > It would be interesting if lcb was slower, since it's supposed to be > > lower-level. > > The demo that Steven did, demonstrating the speed of populating a > polyGrid > > (lcb widget) vs. a dataGrid (lcs group) was that it was much, much > faster. > > > > On Tue, Aug 30, 2022 at 5:58 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > > LCB has been slower than LCS, but the advantage is that you can easily > > > link to much faster compiler code. I’m not sure if that has changed > > any… I > > > could pull out some code from a while back where we were doing some > speed > > > tests. > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > > > On Aug 30, 2022, at 5:31 PM, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode < > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > Is there a page that discusses the pros of LCB? I looked and didn’t > > > find it. > > > > > > > > I’m thinking of a simple list (I’m making this up because I didn’t > find > > > the page) > > > > > > > > — N times faster execution than LCS > > > > — interface with code libraries using simple hooks > > > > — bundle code and graphics together into widgets > > > > > > > > More? > > > > > > > > gc > > > > > > > >>> On Aug 28, 2022, at 11:27 AM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode < > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > >>> > > > >>> On 8/28/22 11:06, Mike Kerner wrote: > > > >>> the lcb documentation, especially in the api widget is ungreat. > > > >>> the good news is that as long as there is an oss repo version of > LC, > > > you can hunt for some of the information that is missing. AND, at least > > for > > > now, you can still find much of it in the LC application > > > >>> example: as i was hunting, i found a bunch of editors, but none of > > > them seem to be documented anywhere obvious. > > > >> > > > >> Yep - I find most of my documentation by digging. > > > >> > > > >> The lack of colornames just bit me earlier this week and I had to > > > backpedal and code a list of a dozen color names as "R,G,B". Even the > > > "#FFFFFF" format isn't accepted. > > > >> > > > >> -- > > > >> Mark Wieder > > > >> ahsoftware at gmail.com > > > >> > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> use-livecode mailing list > > > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > subscription preferences: > > > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > subscription preferences: > > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Sep 1 11:10:31 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 15:10:31 +0000 Subject: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <816C27F1-2EFD-47F9-A507-46245A41158A@gmail.com> <69F805E3-DF6D-4403-BE3E-84CAB718344B@milby7.com> Message-ID: <6FD1450A-87FA-4208-B4F8-6050A5F358AE@iotecdigital.com> Also, when it comes to performance, developers should ask not only is it faster, but would anyone notice the difference? I used to say, "A computer only needs to be fast enough." Some will ask, "Fast enough for what?" To which I reply, "Now you are asking the right question." Bob S On Aug 31, 2022, at 21:54 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode > wrote: Agreed -- I've put off LCB because I don't much bother with widgets. I suppose I could update Navigator, but it already works well, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ So if it isn't faster, dare I say it, why would I? gc From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Thu Sep 1 11:36:47 2022 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 11:36:47 -0400 Subject: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: <6FD1450A-87FA-4208-B4F8-6050A5F358AE@iotecdigital.com> References: <816C27F1-2EFD-47F9-A507-46245A41158A@gmail.com> <69F805E3-DF6D-4403-BE3E-84CAB718344B@milby7.com> <6FD1450A-87FA-4208-B4F8-6050A5F358AE@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <002b01d8be18$a8cd77c0$fa686740$@net> 42 Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Bob Sneidar via use-livecode Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2022 11:11 AM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Bob Sneidar Subject: Re: lcb missing manual Also, when it comes to performance, developers should ask not only is it faster, but would anyone notice the difference? I used to say, "A computer only needs to be fast enough." Some will ask, "Fast enough for what?" To which I reply, "Now you are asking the right question." Bob S On Aug 31, 2022, at 21:54 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode > wrote: Agreed -- I've put off LCB because I don't much bother with widgets. I suppose I could update Navigator, but it already works well, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ So if it isn't faster, dare I say it, why would I? gc _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Sep 1 11:54:48 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 15:54:48 +0000 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: <97A503CE-34F0-4BA8-8CA8-C7E52E7A1364@iotecdigital.com> References: <16B11823-3348-421C-95A3-A8CF2A7170CA@iotecdigital.com> <5C7E50AF-B53A-4ED6-AD7B-2841FBE4A9CD@iotecdigital.com> <97A503CE-34F0-4BA8-8CA8-C7E52E7A1364@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: OK I'm well on my way to standardizing fonts. However I have run across a bit of an issue. Take the Google font Aclonica. On the MacOS it appears on the fonts menu in the property editor as Aclonica Regular. But on Windows it appears as simply Aclonica. That means if you assign the font using the Fonts menu on MacOS, the fonts WON'T RENDER on the PC. But if you type, "Aclonica" then it works on both platforms. The workaround is to type the name of the font (in this case Aclonica) without the Regular instead of using the Fonts menu in the property editor. BTW the Fonts menu in the Property Editor needs a major facelift! You cannot hot-type to get to the font you want or even near it. Scrolling is a pain. If I start using a font file while the property editor is open, the new font will not appear until I close and re-open the property editor. Bleh. Anyway I'll get around to an enhancement request soon. Bob S > On Aug 31, 2022, at 08:27 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > Okay I see there are a butt-ton of them and must be downloaded individually. They can be had at fonts.com. I already found one I like for my module headers! > > Bob S > > > On Aug 31, 2022, at 08:17 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode > wrote: > > Great idea! I looked for a download link for the fonts, but all I can find are github links to the source code (I don't want to have to build out all the fonts if that's what that is) and other sources for font downloaders and synchs. Is there anywhere I can just download the OTF files? > > Bob S > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Sep 1 13:06:55 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 10:06:55 -0700 Subject: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <951cdea0-756c-3d78-97f4-448ee7baa13f@fourthworld.com> Geoff Canyon wrote: > I've put off LCB because I don't much bother with widgets. > I suppose I could update Navigator, but it already works well, > so \_()_/ > > So if it isn't faster, dare I say it, why would I? Foreign Function Interface, and certain custom control needs. In short, the language choice hierarchy seems to be: - Use LC Script wherever you can. - If you need FFI or have specific rendering/packaging needs for shared components beyond what custom group-based controls offer, use LC Builder. - If raw CPU speed is absolutely critical, consider externals. Kevin said this more eloquently back around the time LC Builder premiered: I think this is a really important principal. Always use the highest level language you can for any given project. Offering that very high level language option is a big part of LiveCode's reason for being. Previously our primary choices were between LiveCode Script and a lower level language such as C. Now we have a third choice, an intermediate LiveCode Builder. Its much faster than C but slower than Script. It is going to excel at certain tasks. However we should always choose to use it only when it offers clear advantages above LiveCode Script for the project that outweigh the extra level of effort needed to use it. I know its very tempting having added a whole new language to build everything in that, but we must carefully resist that temptation and use it judiciously, only for what it is best at. http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2015-August/217849.html -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Sep 1 13:31:39 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 17:31:39 +0000 Subject: Stylistic question. In-Reply-To: References: <1818ceeb0b0.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <990BFD28-D609-4498-9DF0-A80E605861C4@iotecdigital.com> by Navigator I was put off by Navigator at first, mainly because it was able to do a LOT, and I was looking for an easy answer to a complex problem: How to set properties for objects in a much more intuitive way that the LC Property Editor. Once I started using it however, I cannot imagine how I lived without it. I don't think I am going too far to say that it is in the top 3 most useful interface enhancements ever developed in LC. I will however ask for just one enhancement: If I am filtering the list and have an item or items selected, and then I clear the filter, it also clears the selection. It would be great if the selection could be maintained or restored. Bob S From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Thu Sep 1 13:32:12 2022 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 13:32:12 -0400 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <816C27F1-2EFD-47F9-A507-46245A41158A@gmail.com> <69F805E3-DF6D-4403-BE3E-84CAB718344B@milby7.com> Message-ID: <003801d8be28$c8632660$59297320$@net> I took a major stab at LCB and created a new widget based on the navbar widget. I have made 2 changes to the navbar and call it navrad. It does not modify the stock navbar. With almost no docs it was a challenge. There were so many unknowns I got a few giant headaches. It adds 4 new properties(iconFill,autoRADHilite,preHilitedItem, preHilitedItemName) and 1 new message(preHiliteChanged). I updated the documentation so the new properties and message show in the dictionary with example(search for "navrad" or just "rad"). One thing I ran into was that I had to call the "autohilite" property autoRADHilite because using any existing property causes a confilict that I could not get around without sufficient docs. It does show in the property inspector as "auto hilite". These changes allow 1)enlarge/center the icon if there is no label 2)intercept a selection before it is hilited and make a choice to hilite and send the stock hiliteChanged message (or not). Why no label? For one social media icons don’t need labels. Why a pre message? Someone suggested it and I thought it was a great idea. Backwards compatible with existing navbar LCS code. The was an auto sizing to card width request. I will look to see if I can do it without more docs(or help). If anyone would like to try it and find any bugs it's at ==> https://www.dropbox.com/s/51zm4m8dip49jov/com.livecode.widget.navrad.2.0.0.lce?dl=0 Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net From sean at pidigital.co.uk Thu Sep 1 14:25:50 2022 From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Sean Cole) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 19:25:50 +0100 Subject: Livecode / Github In-Reply-To: References: <9ECE2480-BAAB-4E8A-B97D-70F2153A91C3@pidigital.co.uk> <8b549acf-8e33-a468-d7e8-3c1fa6ce7c34@sonic.net> <56eb98b4-b369-aefa-54d3-eb12f220b87c@sonic.net> <3ba1188d-59d4-c5d7-3f8e-262529b5ccfc@sonic.net> Message-ID: I managed to get the stack and all substacks to export finally. There was an issue with an old extension library two of the stacks use (Chart Maker) so just removed the stacks for now and all ported properly. Now, it occurs to me that this is all well and good, but there is a lack of instruction on how to make use of it now. How do you link it to something like GitHub or some other external or local server? How do we collaborate with other users? How will they know which scripts are which when they only see a folder full or GUIDs? I 'think' these are valid questions. Or maybe I'm just stupid or missed something somewhere. By the way, here is an update to the plugin code: global gLastObject on savingProperties pLongId, @pProperteis // I'm loving all the typos like pProperteis - Really rushed out the door. put "saving properties of" && pLongId into gLastObject put gLastObject wait 0.001 millisec with messages end savingProperties on savingScript pLongId, @pScript put "saving script of" && pLongId into gLastObject put gLastObject wait 0.001 millisec with messages end savingScript Sean On Thu, 1 Sept 2022 at 05:08, Sean Cole wrote: > Yeah, I could really do with it giving me some feedback as to where this > object is. Actually, I could... > ... I just wrote a plugin for it. Use scCreatePlugin "","" (scCreatePlugin > on its own doesn't work from the message box like the dictionary suggests). > Then in the script I used > > global gLastObject > > on savingProperties pLongId, @pProperteis > --> your code > put "saving properties of" && pLongId into gLastObject > put word -2 to -1 of gLastObject > wait 0.01 millisec with messages > end savingProperties > > ---- > > Once I ran this it displayed which substack it was working on in the > message box and once it had failed the global showed me the last parameter > it had successfully accessed. Cool. But I still can't work out which > parameter of either that object (a standard text field) or the next (a > group with no behaviours or anything out of the ordinary as far as I can > tell). I'll come back to it tomorrow. It's silly o'clock now. > > Sean > > On Wed, 31 Aug 2022 at 17:13, Mark Wieder via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> On 8/31/22 03:00, Sean Cole via use-livecode wrote: >> >> > LC Team: :-) It would be REALLY handy if proper errors were thrown when >> one >> > occurs that can help us easily understand what the issues are. Also, if >> > prior to release documentation were gone through to make sure they are >> > legible. And if plugins released actually work as described. :-) >> >> Actually, it's even worse. >> The result is empty if no error occurred and "* successful" if it >> worked. To me that seems backwards. >> >> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23911 >> >> -- >> Mark Wieder >> ahsoftware at gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > From brian at milby7.com Thu Sep 1 15:13:36 2022 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 15:13:36 -0400 Subject: Livecode / Github In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <025EAAAC-94C8-4F4C-A161-36F240D7E4A8@milby7.com> Here is the workflow that I think is intended: Export stack to files Commit files to GitHub or other VCS — Fetch/pull latest from GitHub Import stack from files Make changes Export stack to files Commit changes to GitHub — At any point changes between branches can be merged due to structure of exports so you could have parallel development happening. Brian Milby brian at milby7.com > On Sep 1, 2022, at 2:27 PM, Sean Cole via use-livecode wrote: > > I managed to get the stack and all substacks to export finally. There was > an issue with an old extension library two of the stacks use (Chart Maker) > so just removed the stacks for now and all ported properly. > > Now, it occurs to me that this is all well and good, but there is a lack of > instruction on how to make use of it now. How do you link it to something > like GitHub or some other external or local server? How do we collaborate > with other users? How will they know which scripts are which when they only > see a folder full or GUIDs? > > I 'think' these are valid questions. Or maybe I'm just stupid or missed > something somewhere. > > By the way, here is an update to the plugin code: > global gLastObject > > on savingProperties pLongId, @pProperteis > // I'm loving all the typos like pProperteis - Really rushed out the > door. > put "saving properties of" && pLongId into gLastObject > put gLastObject > wait 0.001 millisec with messages > end savingProperties > > on savingScript pLongId, @pScript > put "saving script of" && pLongId into gLastObject > put gLastObject > wait 0.001 millisec with messages > end savingScript > > Sean > >> On Thu, 1 Sept 2022 at 05:08, Sean Cole wrote: >> >> Yeah, I could really do with it giving me some feedback as to where this >> object is. Actually, I could... >> ... I just wrote a plugin for it. Use scCreatePlugin "","" (scCreatePlugin >> on its own doesn't work from the message box like the dictionary suggests). >> Then in the script I used >> >> global gLastObject >> >> on savingProperties pLongId, @pProperteis >> --> your code >> put "saving properties of" && pLongId into gLastObject >> put word -2 to -1 of gLastObject >> wait 0.01 millisec with messages >> end savingProperties >> >> ---- >> >> Once I ran this it displayed which substack it was working on in the >> message box and once it had failed the global showed me the last parameter >> it had successfully accessed. Cool. But I still can't work out which >> parameter of either that object (a standard text field) or the next (a >> group with no behaviours or anything out of the ordinary as far as I can >> tell). I'll come back to it tomorrow. It's silly o'clock now. >> >> Sean >> >> On Wed, 31 Aug 2022 at 17:13, Mark Wieder via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>>> On 8/31/22 03:00, Sean Cole via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>>> LC Team: :-) It would be REALLY handy if proper errors were thrown when >>> one >>>> occurs that can help us easily understand what the issues are. Also, if >>>> prior to release documentation were gone through to make sure they are >>>> legible. And if plugins released actually work as described. :-) >>> >>> Actually, it's even worse. >>> The result is empty if no error occurred and "* successful" if it >>> worked. To me that seems backwards. >>> >>> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23911 >>> >>> -- >>> Mark Wieder >>> ahsoftware at gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Sep 1 15:25:34 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 19:25:34 +0000 Subject: propertyChanged message Message-ID: <21EE8FB7-D2D3-45A6-A95F-844F542EA5BE@iotecdigital.com> Hi all. I would like to see a propertyChanged message implemented that gets sent to any object when any of it's properties change. There could even be two messages, one for built-in properies and another for custom properties. Imagine being able to change the font or size of a particular object, and then having all the other objects that "subscribed" to that object's font or size property ALSO have their fonts change. It would then be possible to build a kind of Object Oriented environment. What say you? Bob S From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Sep 1 15:27:28 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 19:27:28 +0000 Subject: propertyChanged message In-Reply-To: <21EE8FB7-D2D3-45A6-A95F-844F542EA5BE@iotecdigital.com> References: <21EE8FB7-D2D3-45A6-A95F-844F542EA5BE@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23917 > On Sep 1, 2022, at 12:25 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi all. > > I would like to see a propertyChanged message implemented that gets sent to any object when any of it's properties change. There could even be two messages, one for built-in properies and another for custom properties. > > Imagine being able to change the font or size of a particular object, and then having all the other objects that "subscribed" to that object's font or size property ALSO have their fonts change. It would then be possible to build a kind of Object Oriented environment. What say you? > > Bob S > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ahsoftware at sonic.net Thu Sep 1 16:23:14 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 13:23:14 -0700 Subject: propertyChanged message In-Reply-To: <21EE8FB7-D2D3-45A6-A95F-844F542EA5BE@iotecdigital.com> References: <21EE8FB7-D2D3-45A6-A95F-844F542EA5BE@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <5a8dfc34-34c2-3a10-ea87-9d240e2f4860@sonic.net> On 9/1/22 12:25, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > Hi all. > > I would like to see a propertyChanged message implemented that gets sent to any object when any of it's properties change. There could even be two messages, one for built-in properies and another for custom properties. > > Imagine being able to change the font or size of a particular object, and then having all the other objects that "subscribed" to that object's font or size property ALSO have their fonts change. It would then be possible to build a kind of Object Oriented environment. What say you? Why not just use the built-in hierarchy?: change the textfont of the parent object and all the child object automatically get the change. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Sep 1 16:33:39 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 15:33:39 -0500 Subject: Text to speech Message-ID: <1208fc7b-7f41-131f-5767-d26ada36f378@hyperactivesw.com> What library/commands do you use for text to speech? I see that revSpeak works on Windows and Mac, and the speech library ("speech*") works on android, iOS, and Mac. What do you use if you want to support all four platforms? Do you just branch to revSpeak for Windows? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Sep 1 16:34:54 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 20:34:54 +0000 Subject: propertyChanged message In-Reply-To: <5a8dfc34-34c2-3a10-ea87-9d240e2f4860@sonic.net> References: <21EE8FB7-D2D3-45A6-A95F-844F542EA5BE@iotecdigital.com> <5a8dfc34-34c2-3a10-ea87-9d240e2f4860@sonic.net> Message-ID: <8EF7D978-7EAA-4541-9128-BB426AC43F89@iotecdigital.com> Because there are a lot of parent objects for one, and changing the mainstack default font would change EVERYTHING. What I had in mind was a label type that I could create subtypes from, then instance from those. For example I use label fields for a form header, subheaders for datagrids, subheaders for multiline text fields, and of course labels for single line fields. Each one of those have common font, size, style, margins, alignments etc. For if I had a main class called Labels, then a subclass for each of those mentioned, then instances off each depending on the use, I could effectively change a property of a subclass and only the instances of that subclass would change, and only the properties of that subclass that were defined in that subclass. Visual Foxpro used to do (and probably still does) a very similar thing. It makes design 10 times faster, especially when you want to play around with different looks and feels. Could I just group all the objects on a form for a specific subclass? Sure, but I use groups for other things. I group a field and it's label so I can move them as one. I group certain objects so I can show and hide groups on a form depending on which tab was selected and so on. Also, only that group or card would change, and not other cards and stacks etc. One new message, propertyChanged would revolutionize the way design was done in LC. Bob S On Sep 1, 2022, at 13:23 , Mark Wieder via use-livecode > wrote: On 9/1/22 12:25, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: Hi all. I would like to see a propertyChanged message implemented that gets sent to any object when any of it's properties change. There could even be two messages, one for built-in properies and another for custom properties. Imagine being able to change the font or size of a particular object, and then having all the other objects that "subscribed" to that object's font or size property ALSO have their fonts change. It would then be possible to build a kind of Object Oriented environment. What say you? Why not just use the built-in hierarchy?: change the textfont of the parent object and all the child object automatically get the change. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Sep 1 16:40:26 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 20:40:26 +0000 Subject: propertyChanged message In-Reply-To: <8EF7D978-7EAA-4541-9128-BB426AC43F89@iotecdigital.com> References: <21EE8FB7-D2D3-45A6-A95F-844F542EA5BE@iotecdigital.com> <5a8dfc34-34c2-3a10-ea87-9d240e2f4860@sonic.net> <8EF7D978-7EAA-4541-9128-BB426AC43F89@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <25C7D47D-35DA-4D64-B6F8-1BFC08AD98ED@iotecdigital.com> Should have read, For INSTANCE, if I had a main class called Labels... On Sep 1, 2022, at 13:34 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode > wrote: For if I had a main class called Labels, From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Sep 1 16:42:04 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 13:42:04 -0700 Subject: propertyChanged message In-Reply-To: <21EE8FB7-D2D3-45A6-A95F-844F542EA5BE@iotecdigital.com> References: <21EE8FB7-D2D3-45A6-A95F-844F542EA5BE@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <721b6787-c546-d981-0cbe-cabe4651808d@fourthworld.com> Bob Sneidar wrote: > I would like to see a propertyChanged message implemented that gets > sent to any object when any of it's properties change. There could > even be two messages, one for built-in properies and another for > custom properties. I like the idea (I'd love messages for all sorts of things), but conversations with Dr Raney remind me of the impact messages have on overall performance. There are probably super-smart ways to implement things that don't have the drag on performance that mouseStillDown once imposed, or the limitations eventually placed on it to keep it from being a persistent source of performance loss. But cleverness comes at a cost of its own, in design, implementation, testing... This is worth considering, but perhaps we can start with the use case - thank you for providing this one: > Imagine being able to change the font or size of a particular object, > and then having all the other objects that "subscribed" to that > object's font or size property ALSO have their fonts change. It would > then be possible to build a kind of Object Oriented environment. OOP systems are largely defined by their object model. In LC's stack/card/control model, visual properties are inherited, so changing once at the stack level allows everything downstream to reflect the change, no code needed at all. I can see cases where it would be nice to have CSS-like classes, where we could define style properties in one place and have everything assigned to use that set of properties automatically reflect changes. I believe that level of style-sheet-like flexibility is something Mark Waddingham may have mentioned before. Bonus if it could use actual CSS syntax as an *option*, so newcomers can jump in quickly and old-timers can choose whether to enjoy the compactness of CSS or the completeness of LC Script, "set the x of y to x". There are of course ways to do things like this using custom props, and I'll go out on a limb to try to channel Dr Raney on this, based on conversation I'd had with him about messages: "Show me a use case where it's not possible to get what you need from a custom message, and I'll consider a way to override built-in messages." His concern with messages was two-fold: - Performance: the open-ended mechanism needed to allow overriding adds overhead to setting up the calling change each time the context changes, and sometimes during execution. - Consistency: it creates a world of unpredictability, where simply using someone's library can alter messages you've been relying on for years. I believe both of those can be seen as relevant to property changes. And with that view, one attempt to satisfy this is provided with virtual properties: getProp and setProp. Using custom prop names for custom behavior ensures that the built-in names will always reliably do what you expect, while still leaving open a boundless universe of options for custom behavior, simply by calling it via a custom name. Within a getProp or setProp handler, one can get and set any number of built-in properties, and also custom properties, and call commands and functions, and set properties of other objects, and do just about anything LC Script allows. Very powerful. I know you're already very familiar with getProp and setProp, as are most of the readers here. So I'm not re-introducing them to be pedantic, or to gatekeep your request. I'm merely trying to understand your request in terms of real-world development needs. So to help my understanding, I'll pose to you a variation of what Raney posed to me: "What are you working on that can't be done by having custom property handling accomplished via custom property names?" -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From paul at researchware.com Thu Sep 1 16:43:07 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 16:43:07 -0400 Subject: Text to speech In-Reply-To: <1208fc7b-7f41-131f-5767-d26ada36f378@hyperactivesw.com> References: <1208fc7b-7f41-131f-5767-d26ada36f378@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <17eef8bf-c4f2-c828-a5fb-1af24dd66f8f@researchware.com> On 9/1/2022 4:33 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > What library/commands do you use for text to speech? I see that > revSpeak works on Windows and Mac, and the speech library ("speech*") > works on android, iOS, and Mac. What do you use if you want to support > all four platforms? Do you just branch to revSpeak for Windows? > I think Panos just shows how to build a common text to speech library for all platforms from these two built-in in a recent Livecode Global problem solving session. From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Sep 1 17:21:42 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2022 16:21:42 -0500 Subject: Text to speech In-Reply-To: <17eef8bf-c4f2-c828-a5fb-1af24dd66f8f@researchware.com> References: <1208fc7b-7f41-131f-5767-d26ada36f378@hyperactivesw.com> <17eef8bf-c4f2-c828-a5fb-1af24dd66f8f@researchware.com> Message-ID: <182faee5e70.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Thank you. I keep missing the conferences and I need to watch them later. Do you happen to recall which one it was? It sounds like exactly what I'm looking for. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On September 1, 2022 3:44:56 PM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > On 9/1/2022 4:33 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >> What library/commands do you use for text to speech? I see that >> revSpeak works on Windows and Mac, and the speech library ("speech*") >> works on android, iOS, and Mac. What do you use if you want to support >> all four platforms? Do you just branch to revSpeak for Windows? >> > > I think Panos just shows how to build a common text to speech library > for all platforms from these two built-in in a recent Livecode Global > problem solving session. > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Thu Sep 1 17:35:05 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 17:35:05 -0400 Subject: Text to speech In-Reply-To: <182faee5e70.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <1208fc7b-7f41-131f-5767-d26ada36f378@hyperactivesw.com> <17eef8bf-c4f2-c828-a5fb-1af24dd66f8f@researchware.com> <182faee5e70.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: I think it was the July Problem solving session, but it could have been August's. I think July 14th's session. On 9/1/2022 5:21 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > Thank you. I keep missing the conferences and I need to watch them > later. Do you happen to recall which one it was? It sounds like > exactly what I'm looking for. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > On September 1, 2022 3:44:56 PM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode > wrote: > >> On 9/1/2022 4:33 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >>> What library/commands do you use for text to speech? I see that >>> revSpeak works on Windows and Mac, and the speech library ("speech*") >>> works on android, iOS, and Mac. What do you use if you want to support >>> all four platforms? Do you just branch to revSpeak for Windows? >>> >> >> I think Panos just shows how to build a common text to speech library >> for all platforms from these two built-in in a recent Livecode Global >> problem solving session. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From sean at pidigital.co.uk Thu Sep 1 17:38:18 2022 From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Pi Digital) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 22:38:18 +0100 Subject: Livecode / Github In-Reply-To: <025EAAAC-94C8-4F4C-A161-36F240D7E4A8@milby7.com> References: <025EAAAC-94C8-4F4C-A161-36F240D7E4A8@milby7.com> Message-ID: <8C49E7B5-1FE1-463D-8733-39903AB09E19@pidigital.co.uk> Fab :D however, ‘how’ does one… (i) set up a GitHub (I know how, this is for the benefit of others), (ii) perform commits, push, pulls (perhaps using LC and having an LC library/widget for this would be best), (iii) merge to a branch, (iv) switch branches All the while making it simple for even the most beginner of beginners to understand, like everything else in LC *Should be? It’s like giving us the front door but the hallway floor is missing. There is no guide on real world usage so we are left stranded with it. Here’s the actual situation myself and my colleague face. At the moment one of us works on the app, makes some changes, zips it up, and posts it up to a server. Then the other does the same ad infinitum. But what you have described is not much different. How can we really tell who made changes unless we know the uid for the script or card (for layout) or object? And are we all supposed to now become command line experts to manage an svc? I’m puzzled at the moment. It shows great promise, but it’s still not fully ready, is it. It’s usable, like LCB, if you can do lower level stuff. But not many using LC are able, hence why they use LC. Everything LC, and I mean everything, that is front end for LC users *Should, note, Should be High Level and easy to code & understand. The plug-in language for SmartCrumbs is dreamy. Thank you whoever came up with that. I love it! LCB is a nightmare and could have been done so much better - much more in line with the HyperCard principle. Sean Cole Pi > On 1 Sep 2022, at 20:13, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote: > > Here is the workflow that I think is intended: > > Export stack to files > Commit files to GitHub or other VCS > — > Fetch/pull latest from GitHub > Import stack from files > Make changes > Export stack to files > Commit changes to GitHub > — > At any point changes between branches can be merged due to structure of exports so you could have parallel development happening. > > Brian Milby > brian at milby7.com > >> On Sep 1, 2022, at 2:27 PM, Sean Cole via use-livecode wrote: >> >> I managed to get the stack and all substacks to export finally. There was >> an issue with an old extension library two of the stacks use (Chart Maker) >> so just removed the stacks for now and all ported properly. >> >> Now, it occurs to me that this is all well and good, but there is a lack of >> instruction on how to make use of it now. How do you link it to something >> like GitHub or some other external or local server? How do we collaborate >> with other users? How will they know which scripts are which when they only >> see a folder full or GUIDs? >> >> I 'think' these are valid questions. Or maybe I'm just stupid or missed >> something somewhere. >> >> By the way, here is an update to the plugin code: >> global gLastObject >> >> on savingProperties pLongId, @pProperteis >> // I'm loving all the typos like pProperteis - Really rushed out the >> door. >> put "saving properties of" && pLongId into gLastObject >> put gLastObject >> wait 0.001 millisec with messages >> end savingProperties >> >> on savingScript pLongId, @pScript >> put "saving script of" && pLongId into gLastObject >> put gLastObject >> wait 0.001 millisec with messages >> end savingScript >> >> Sean >> >>>> On Thu, 1 Sept 2022 at 05:08, Sean Cole wrote: >>> >>> Yeah, I could really do with it giving me some feedback as to where this >>> object is. Actually, I could... >>> ... I just wrote a plugin for it. Use scCreatePlugin "","" (scCreatePlugin >>> on its own doesn't work from the message box like the dictionary suggests). >>> Then in the script I used >>> >>> global gLastObject >>> >>> on savingProperties pLongId, @pProperteis >>> --> your code >>> put "saving properties of" && pLongId into gLastObject >>> put word -2 to -1 of gLastObject >>> wait 0.01 millisec with messages >>> end savingProperties >>> >>> ---- >>> >>> Once I ran this it displayed which substack it was working on in the >>> message box and once it had failed the global showed me the last parameter >>> it had successfully accessed. Cool. But I still can't work out which >>> parameter of either that object (a standard text field) or the next (a >>> group with no behaviours or anything out of the ordinary as far as I can >>> tell). I'll come back to it tomorrow. It's silly o'clock now. >>> >>> Sean >>> >>> On Wed, 31 Aug 2022 at 17:13, Mark Wieder via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>>>> On 8/31/22 03:00, Sean Cole via use-livecode wrote: >>>> >>>>> LC Team: :-) It would be REALLY handy if proper errors were thrown when >>>> one >>>>> occurs that can help us easily understand what the issues are. Also, if >>>>> prior to release documentation were gone through to make sure they are >>>>> legible. And if plugins released actually work as described. :-) >>>> >>>> Actually, it's even worse. >>>> The result is empty if no error occurred and "* successful" if it >>>> worked. To me that seems backwards. >>>> >>>> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23911 >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Mark Wieder >>>> ahsoftware at gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ahsoftware at sonic.net Thu Sep 1 17:43:40 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 14:43:40 -0700 Subject: Livecode / Github In-Reply-To: References: <9ECE2480-BAAB-4E8A-B97D-70F2153A91C3@pidigital.co.uk> <8b549acf-8e33-a468-d7e8-3c1fa6ce7c34@sonic.net> <56eb98b4-b369-aefa-54d3-eb12f220b87c@sonic.net> <3ba1188d-59d4-c5d7-3f8e-262529b5ccfc@sonic.net> Message-ID: <14ef8a68-f71e-0ae6-c7d6-cee5a15ede7a@sonic.net> On 9/1/22 11:25, Sean Cole via use-livecode wrote: > By the way, here is an update to the plugin code: Sean- good news that you got it working. How in the world did you manage that? I went through what I think are the right steps: scCreatePlugin "","" edit and save plugin code scInstallPlugin pPath scEnabledPlugin pPath scListPlugins() --- nothing (no array keys) scGetPathLog() --- recursion limit reached -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From sean at pidigital.co.uk Thu Sep 1 18:16:44 2022 From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Pi Digital) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 23:16:44 +0100 Subject: Livecode / Github In-Reply-To: <14ef8a68-f71e-0ae6-c7d6-cee5a15ede7a@sonic.net> References: <14ef8a68-f71e-0ae6-c7d6-cee5a15ede7a@sonic.net> Message-ID: <1C309D51-E467-41BB-8282-F0E7F9D36997@pidigital.co.uk> I don’t know who coded it but it really does not follow the standard LC conventions. I am going to assume it was someone external to LC so will cut them a huge bit of slack. It’s also very clear English is not their first language so they did pretty well considering. Here are the steps Create a new plug-in file using scCreatePlugin “”,”” This will first ask for a name and then for a folder location to put it. I put it into the MyLivecode folder in a subfolder called SmartCrumbsPlugins Edit the code as needed and save. Make sure to ONLY do this in LC, not Atom or another text editor. Next, use scInstallPlugin “” This will ask which plug-in to load Then scEnabledPlugin “myPlugin” where myPlugin is the name you have given it, which is not necessarily the same as the file name. This will make sure it is running the next time any SmartCrumbs import/export operation is performed. To find which plugins are installed and enabled, use put the keys of scListPlugins (“All”) To find the path where the logs are saved, use put scGetPathLog(“”) or put scGetPathLog() Either will work Sean Cole Pi Digital Productions Ltd eMail Ts & Cs > On 1 Sep 2022, at 22:43, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > > On 9/1/22 11:25, Sean Cole via use-livecode wrote: > >> By the way, here is an update to the plugin code: > > Sean- good news that you got it working. How in the world did you manage that? I went through what I think are the right steps: > > scCreatePlugin "","" > edit and save plugin code > scInstallPlugin pPath > scEnabledPlugin pPath > scListPlugins() --- nothing (no array keys) > scGetPathLog() --- recursion limit reached > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ahsoftware at sonic.net Thu Sep 1 18:48:47 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 15:48:47 -0700 Subject: Livecode / Github In-Reply-To: <1C309D51-E467-41BB-8282-F0E7F9D36997@pidigital.co.uk> References: <14ef8a68-f71e-0ae6-c7d6-cee5a15ede7a@sonic.net> <1C309D51-E467-41BB-8282-F0E7F9D36997@pidigital.co.uk> Message-ID: <9c8f45ac-f894-62cf-a318-6a1c3553f36c@sonic.net> On 9/1/22 15:16, Pi Digital via use-livecode wrote: > Here are the steps Yep. Exactly what I did. Oh well. \_ ()_/ -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From sean at pidigital.co.uk Thu Sep 1 18:55:25 2022 From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Pi Digital) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 23:55:25 +0100 Subject: Livecode / Github In-Reply-To: <9c8f45ac-f894-62cf-a318-6a1c3553f36c@sonic.net> References: <9c8f45ac-f894-62cf-a318-6a1c3553f36c@sonic.net> Message-ID: <426260FD-18BC-48A1-987F-E578E58E904B@pidigital.co.uk> LC9.6.7? Sean Cole Pi Digital Productions Ltd eMail Ts & Cs > On 1 Sep 2022, at 23:48, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > > On 9/1/22 15:16, Pi Digital via use-livecode wrote: > >> Here are the steps > > Yep. Exactly what I did. > Oh well. ¯\_ (ツ)_/¯ > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ahsoftware at sonic.net Thu Sep 1 19:18:28 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 16:18:28 -0700 Subject: Livecode / Github In-Reply-To: <426260FD-18BC-48A1-987F-E578E58E904B@pidigital.co.uk> References: <9c8f45ac-f894-62cf-a318-6a1c3553f36c@sonic.net> <426260FD-18BC-48A1-987F-E578E58E904B@pidigital.co.uk> Message-ID: <7fc73425-9234-a8d2-d6c8-449625defc7a@sonic.net> On 9/1/22 15:55, Pi Digital via use-livecode wrote: > LC9.6.7? 9.6.9rc1 -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Sep 1 20:18:15 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 00:18:15 +0000 Subject: propertyChanged message In-Reply-To: <721b6787-c546-d981-0cbe-cabe4651808d@fourthworld.com> References: <21EE8FB7-D2D3-45A6-A95F-844F542EA5BE@iotecdigital.com> <721b6787-c546-d981-0cbe-cabe4651808d@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: As I see it working in my head, property changes, at least built in properties, would typically only be triggered in the IDE. Custom properties are another matter. Set those aside f or a moment. If we are only talking about built in properties, then the message would almost never get sent unless the developer was doing design work. And if the message never got handled, it would just fall through the message path. Not sure what kind of performance overhead that implies, but it can't be much in the scope of making changes to object properties while designing. Heck, just open the message watcher with IDE messages enabled, and the messages going by are so voluminous clicking something clears the buffer before you can see what just happened. :-) In regards to "another way to do it" I suppose an entire utility stack and library could be written and objects subscribing to classes and subclasses would simply register themselves with the utility stack, but that would mean the utility stack would be the focus of any design changes. If the developer made any out of band changes to any object that was subscribed to a subclass, how would he know? But if a propertyChanged message was sent to the object, the developer handling the message could be alerted that the property was inherited from a subclass and he is about to override it. There is no present way to accomplish this. So IMHO performance would not be an issue if custom properties were excluded from the process, or if two different messages were sent, one for custom properties and one for built in, leaving it up to the developer which to handle. Also I think that if properly implemented, it would add even more consistency to the design process. The message could be one of those that can be handled without blocking it, so I don't think it would necessarily interfere with other libraries that depended on the messages. I see your point with CSS. That would be viable if the only properties we wanted to inherit were able to be defined with CSS. I don't know much about CSS, but if all the aspects of an object could be addressed in this way, and if modifying the Style Sheet would cascade down to all the objects using it, then I suppose that would accomplish the same thing. Bob S On Sep 1, 2022, at 13:42 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode > wrote: Bob Sneidar wrote: > I would like to see a propertyChanged message implemented that gets > sent to any object when any of it's properties change. There could > even be two messages, one for built-in properies and another for > custom properties. I like the idea (I'd love messages for all sorts of things), but conversations with Dr Raney remind me of the impact messages have on overall performance. From ahsoftware at sonic.net Thu Sep 1 21:03:49 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 18:03:49 -0700 Subject: Livecode / Github In-Reply-To: <426260FD-18BC-48A1-987F-E578E58E904B@pidigital.co.uk> References: <9c8f45ac-f894-62cf-a318-6a1c3553f36c@sonic.net> <426260FD-18BC-48A1-987F-E578E58E904B@pidigital.co.uk> Message-ID: <5495add8-b356-ddb9-e934-ee09f27e946e@sonic.net> Got it figured out. It just doesn't work on linux. On OSX when executing scEnabledPlugin I get the error A stack with the same name as ... Before loading /Users//Documents/My LiveCode/SmartCrumbsVCW/extensions... what do you want to do with stack: /Users//Downloads/smartCrumbs/... So it looks like scInstallPlugin installs a copy of the plugin into a *very* specific hardcoded directory, no matter where I placed the source to start with. And no doubt calls specialFolderPath("documents") in order to figure out where that should be.... and of course that call doesn't work on linux, so it probably just gives up silently. I'm guessing the correct call should really be to revEnvironmentUserPluginsPath(). Not going to bother filing a bug on this. I rather expect LC to drop linux support any day now anyway. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From brian at milby7.com Thu Sep 1 21:24:33 2022 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 21:24:33 -0400 Subject: Livecode / Github In-Reply-To: <8C49E7B5-1FE1-463D-8733-39903AB09E19@pidigital.co.uk> References: <025EAAAC-94C8-4F4C-A161-36F240D7E4A8@milby7.com> <8C49E7B5-1FE1-463D-8733-39903AB09E19@pidigital.co.uk> Message-ID: I think some of this is a bit too much to address in a list post. I'll make some comments though. (i) Make a repo at https://github.com; https://www.atlassian.com/git/tutorials/setting-up-a-repository; you can view tons of docs at https://docs.github.com/en (ii)-(iv) I use https://www.sourcetreeapp.com (Mac and Win app available) to manage my repos (many other options available). They also have other tutorials at https://www.atlassian.com/git When you create a GitHub repository currently, it will make a default branch called "main". Initially you would take your stack and commit (really another word for "save") to the main branch. If you had 2 developers that were working on the same stack at the same time, then one way would be to have 2 branches off of main. Let's say "brian" and "sean" for example. So each of us would check out our branch (initially the same as main). We would make any changes we needed and each would commit to our own branch. When whatever we are working on is ready to incorporate into the product, we would merge our branch into the main branch. Since everything is text files (except for the images and other binary resources like that), git can detect which pieces have changed and integrate them together. So instead of a zip going back and forth of the full project, the individual changes would be tracked and integrated. The biggest difference is that multiple developers can work on the same stack at the same time and have their changes integrated together. The down side that I do see with this implementation is that it is difficult to know what object is being changed. Since everything is stored by GUID it can be hard to know what is being updated by looking at the commit logs. Due to the Mac CR issue, I probably won't be able to do much for demonstrating how it works until there is a good workaround (I guess I could manually convert the JSON each time for now). I did fix the JSON file on my ScriptTracker repo so it could be viewed on GitHub. I need to make a change to a script that hasn't been fixed to see how it shows up. The JSON fix showed pretty much as a whole new file (line 1 was updated to lines 1-1000+). My approach with ScriptTracker is a bit different. First is that my tool is much more limited (just does the scripts). But, my tool adds a bit of information to the header of each exported script to give it context and the scripts are named by the object ID (mainly to avoid issues with illegal characters in the object name). It might be something that could be done with plugins to add some info to the JSON and script files. I'll need to take a look - it would make working with the scripts easier. For the JSON, I think it may be helpful to have full object names included with the GUID so you have more of an idea what was changed when looking at the diff. Also, if you just want to track your changes (and not work with another dev to merge), it does get a bit easier. Then you don't even need to use a server (GitHub) but can run git completely on your seat. The same GUI tools mentioned above can be used there as well. Command line tools are there but not required. As I mentioned above, I use a GUI for just about all of my git usage. They make it easy to see what happened and when. Hopefully this helps a little. I think there are a couple of videos from conferences over the past few years covering Git. I know that there is at least one that I did (but it was targeted at building LC from source). Thanks, Brian On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 5:39 PM Pi Digital via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Fab :D > > however, ‘how’ does one… > (i) set up a GitHub (I know how, this is for the benefit of others), > (ii) perform commits, push, pulls (perhaps using LC and having an LC > library/widget for this would be best), > (iii) merge to a branch, > (iv) switch branches > All the while making it simple for even the most beginner of beginners to > understand, like everything else in LC *Should be? > > It’s like giving us the front door but the hallway floor is missing. > > There is no guide on real world usage so we are left stranded with it. > > Here’s the actual situation myself and my colleague face. At the moment > one of us works on the app, makes some changes, zips it up, and posts it up > to a server. Then the other does the same ad infinitum. > > But what you have described is not much different. How can we really tell > who made changes unless we know the uid for the script or card (for layout) > or object? And are we all supposed to now become command line experts to > manage an svc? I’m puzzled at the moment. > > It shows great promise, but it’s still not fully ready, is it. It’s > usable, like LCB, if you can do lower level stuff. But not many using LC > are able, hence why they use LC. Everything LC, and I mean everything, that > is front end for LC users *Should, note, Should be High Level and easy to > code & understand. The plug-in language for SmartCrumbs is dreamy. Thank > you whoever came up with that. I love it! LCB is a nightmare and could have > been done so much better - much more in line with the HyperCard principle. > > Sean Cole > Pi > > From brian at milby7.com Thu Sep 1 21:29:24 2022 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 21:29:24 -0400 Subject: Livecode / Github In-Reply-To: <5495add8-b356-ddb9-e934-ee09f27e946e@sonic.net> References: <9c8f45ac-f894-62cf-a318-6a1c3553f36c@sonic.net> <426260FD-18BC-48A1-987F-E578E58E904B@pidigital.co.uk> <5495add8-b356-ddb9-e934-ee09f27e946e@sonic.net> Message-ID: Actually, that is a bug that needs to be fixed. I don't have "My Livecode" running from my documents folder. So the extension itself is in the correct place, but all of the stuff it writes is in the wrong place. On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 9:04 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Got it figured out. It just doesn't work on linux. > > On OSX when executing scEnabledPlugin I get the error > > A stack with the same name as ... > Before loading /Users//Documents/My > LiveCode/SmartCrumbsVCW/extensions... > what do you want to do with stack: > /Users//Downloads/smartCrumbs/... > > So it looks like scInstallPlugin installs a copy of the plugin into a > *very* specific hardcoded directory, no matter where I placed the source > to start with. And no doubt calls specialFolderPath("documents") in > order to figure out where that should be.... and of course that call > doesn't work on linux, so it probably just gives up silently. I'm > guessing the correct call should really be to > revEnvironmentUserPluginsPath(). > > Not going to bother filing a bug on this. I rather expect LC to drop > linux support any day now anyway. > > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From sean at pidigital.co.uk Thu Sep 1 21:40:35 2022 From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Pi Digital) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 02:40:35 +0100 Subject: Livecode / Github In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9C0883F5-62DA-4179-B039-915398FF1C7E@pidigital.co.uk> Thanks Brian for your comprehensive response. What I meant was, though, that ‘ideally’ we need some instructions in the Guide and preferably a GUI for github and the like built into LC specifically for SmartCrumbs. That way the UIDs can be auto converted to the object names and laid out in filestruct format to make sense. Roundtripping to SourceTree or anything else is not really what we want, is it? Let me see if I get a chance to knock something up quickly over the weekend. I need to try out these new polylist and polygrid widgets anyway. Linking it to GitHub and remote servers shouldn’t be an issue. I understand how they work so I won’t have a problem. It just needs to be made much much simpler for others. Sean Cole Pi Digital Productions Ltd eMail Ts & Cs > On 2 Sep 2022, at 02:26, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote: > > I think some of this is a bit too much to address in a list post. I'll > make some comments though. > (i) Make a repo at https://github.com; > https://www.atlassian.com/git/tutorials/setting-up-a-repository; you can > view tons of docs at https://docs.github.com/en > (ii)-(iv) I use https://www.sourcetreeapp.com (Mac and Win app available) > to manage my repos (many other options available). They also have other > tutorials at https://www.atlassian.com/git > > When you create a GitHub repository currently, it will make a default > branch called "main". Initially you would take your stack and commit > (really another word for "save") to the main branch. If you had 2 > developers that were working on the same stack at the same time, then one > way would be to have 2 branches off of main. Let's say "brian" and "sean" > for example. So each of us would check out our branch (initially the same > as main). We would make any changes we needed and each would commit to our > own branch. When whatever we are working on is ready to incorporate into > the product, we would merge our branch into the main branch. Since > everything is text files (except for the images and other binary resources > like that), git can detect which pieces have changed and integrate them > together. So instead of a zip going back and forth of the full project, > the individual changes would be tracked and integrated. The biggest > difference is that multiple developers can work on the same stack at the > same time and have their changes integrated together. > > The down side that I do see with this implementation is that it is > difficult to know what object is being changed. Since everything is stored > by GUID it can be hard to know what is being updated by looking at the > commit logs. Due to the Mac CR issue, I probably won't be able to do much > for demonstrating how it works until there is a good workaround (I guess I > could manually convert the JSON each time for now). I did fix the JSON > file on my ScriptTracker repo so it could be viewed on GitHub. I need to > make a change to a script that hasn't been fixed to see how it shows up. > The JSON fix showed pretty much as a whole new file (line 1 was updated to > lines 1-1000+). > > My approach with ScriptTracker is a bit different. First is that my tool > is much more limited (just does the scripts). But, my tool adds a bit of > information to the header of each exported script to give it context and > the scripts are named by the object ID (mainly to avoid issues with illegal > characters in the object name). It might be something that could be done > with plugins to add some info to the JSON and script files. I'll need to > take a look - it would make working with the scripts easier. For the JSON, > I think it may be helpful to have full object names included with the GUID > so you have more of an idea what was changed when looking at the diff. > > Also, if you just want to track your changes (and not work with another dev > to merge), it does get a bit easier. Then you don't even need to use a > server (GitHub) but can run git completely on your seat. The same GUI > tools mentioned above can be used there as well. > > Command line tools are there but not required. As I mentioned above, I use > a GUI for just about all of my git usage. They make it easy to see what > happened and when. > > Hopefully this helps a little. I think there are a couple of videos from > conferences over the past few years covering Git. I know that there is at > least one that I did (but it was targeted at building LC from source). > > Thanks, > Brian > >> On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 5:39 PM Pi Digital via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >> Fab :D >> >> however, ‘how’ does one… >> (i) set up a GitHub (I know how, this is for the benefit of others), >> (ii) perform commits, push, pulls (perhaps using LC and having an LC >> library/widget for this would be best), >> (iii) merge to a branch, >> (iv) switch branches >> All the while making it simple for even the most beginner of beginners to >> understand, like everything else in LC *Should be? >> >> It’s like giving us the front door but the hallway floor is missing. >> >> There is no guide on real world usage so we are left stranded with it. >> >> Here’s the actual situation myself and my colleague face. At the moment >> one of us works on the app, makes some changes, zips it up, and posts it up >> to a server. Then the other does the same ad infinitum. >> >> But what you have described is not much different. How can we really tell >> who made changes unless we know the uid for the script or card (for layout) >> or object? And are we all supposed to now become command line experts to >> manage an svc? I’m puzzled at the moment. >> >> It shows great promise, but it’s still not fully ready, is it. It’s >> usable, like LCB, if you can do lower level stuff. But not many using LC >> are able, hence why they use LC. Everything LC, and I mean everything, that >> is front end for LC users *Should, note, Should be High Level and easy to >> code & understand. The plug-in language for SmartCrumbs is dreamy. Thank >> you whoever came up with that. I love it! LCB is a nightmare and could have >> been done so much better - much more in line with the HyperCard principle. >> >> Sean Cole >> Pi >> >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From brian at milby7.com Thu Sep 1 21:47:44 2022 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 21:47:44 -0400 Subject: Livecode / Github In-Reply-To: References: <9c8f45ac-f894-62cf-a318-6a1c3553f36c@sonic.net> <426260FD-18BC-48A1-987F-E578E58E904B@pidigital.co.uk> <5495add8-b356-ddb9-e934-ee09f27e946e@sonic.net> Message-ID: Mark, this is the same bug that you already filed: https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23910 On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 9:29 PM Brian Milby wrote: > Actually, that is a bug that needs to be fixed. I don't have "My > Livecode" running from my documents folder. So the extension itself is in > the correct place, but all of the stuff it writes is in the wrong place. > > On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 9:04 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Got it figured out. It just doesn't work on linux. >> >> On OSX when executing scEnabledPlugin I get the error >> >> A stack with the same name as ... >> Before loading /Users//Documents/My >> LiveCode/SmartCrumbsVCW/extensions... >> what do you want to do with stack: >> /Users//Downloads/smartCrumbs/... >> >> So it looks like scInstallPlugin installs a copy of the plugin into a >> *very* specific hardcoded directory, no matter where I placed the source >> to start with. And no doubt calls specialFolderPath("documents") in >> order to figure out where that should be.... and of course that call >> doesn't work on linux, so it probably just gives up silently. I'm >> guessing the correct call should really be to >> revEnvironmentUserPluginsPath(). >> >> Not going to bother filing a bug on this. I rather expect LC to drop >> linux support any day now anyway. >> >> >> -- >> Mark Wieder >> ahsoftware at gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > From brian at milby7.com Thu Sep 1 22:23:24 2022 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 22:23:24 -0400 Subject: Livecode / Github In-Reply-To: <9C0883F5-62DA-4179-B039-915398FF1C7E@pidigital.co.uk> References: <9C0883F5-62DA-4179-B039-915398FF1C7E@pidigital.co.uk> Message-ID: I would agree that a LC specific (smartcrumbs specific actually) interface to git would be helpful. On the back end, it would just be native git add/commit/push/fetch/pull/merge commands to get data into the repository. The JSON file structure looks to be a mainstack key with the GUID value and then GUID keys for each stack in the file that have all objects as a dictionary. It should be relatively easy to turn it into an array. The challenge will be dealing with diffs. The structure is something like this: { "guid of stack a": { "object guid": { } }, "guid of stack b": { "guid of stack b": { "name": "Main Stack Name" } }, "mainstack": "guid of stack b" } On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 9:41 PM Pi Digital via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Thanks Brian for your comprehensive response. What I meant was, though, > that ‘ideally’ we need some instructions in the Guide and preferably a GUI > for github and the like built into LC specifically for SmartCrumbs. That > way the UIDs can be auto converted to the object names and laid out in > filestruct format to make sense. Roundtripping to SourceTree or anything > else is not really what we want, is it? > > Let me see if I get a chance to knock something up quickly over the > weekend. I need to try out these new polylist and polygrid widgets anyway. > Linking it to GitHub and remote servers shouldn’t be an issue. I understand > how they work so I won’t have a problem. It just needs to be made much much > simpler for others. > > Sean Cole > Pi Digital Productions Ltd > > eMail Ts & Cs > > > > On 2 Sep 2022, at 02:26, Brian Milby via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > I think some of this is a bit too much to address in a list post. I'll > > make some comments though. > > (i) Make a repo at https://github.com; > > https://www.atlassian.com/git/tutorials/setting-up-a-repository; you can > > view tons of docs at https://docs.github.com/en > > (ii)-(iv) I use https://www.sourcetreeapp.com (Mac and Win app > available) > > to manage my repos (many other options available). They also have other > > tutorials at https://www.atlassian.com/git > > > > When you create a GitHub repository currently, it will make a default > > branch called "main". Initially you would take your stack and commit > > (really another word for "save") to the main branch. If you had 2 > > developers that were working on the same stack at the same time, then one > > way would be to have 2 branches off of main. Let's say "brian" and > "sean" > > for example. So each of us would check out our branch (initially the > same > > as main). We would make any changes we needed and each would commit to > our > > own branch. When whatever we are working on is ready to incorporate into > > the product, we would merge our branch into the main branch. Since > > everything is text files (except for the images and other binary > resources > > like that), git can detect which pieces have changed and integrate them > > together. So instead of a zip going back and forth of the full project, > > the individual changes would be tracked and integrated. The biggest > > difference is that multiple developers can work on the same stack at the > > same time and have their changes integrated together. > > > > The down side that I do see with this implementation is that it is > > difficult to know what object is being changed. Since everything is > stored > > by GUID it can be hard to know what is being updated by looking at the > > commit logs. Due to the Mac CR issue, I probably won't be able to do > much > > for demonstrating how it works until there is a good workaround (I guess > I > > could manually convert the JSON each time for now). I did fix the JSON > > file on my ScriptTracker repo so it could be viewed on GitHub. I need to > > make a change to a script that hasn't been fixed to see how it shows up. > > The JSON fix showed pretty much as a whole new file (line 1 was updated > to > > lines 1-1000+). > > > > My approach with ScriptTracker is a bit different. First is that my tool > > is much more limited (just does the scripts). But, my tool adds a bit of > > information to the header of each exported script to give it context and > > the scripts are named by the object ID (mainly to avoid issues with > illegal > > characters in the object name). It might be something that could be done > > with plugins to add some info to the JSON and script files. I'll need to > > take a look - it would make working with the scripts easier. For the > JSON, > > I think it may be helpful to have full object names included with the > GUID > > so you have more of an idea what was changed when looking at the diff. > > > > Also, if you just want to track your changes (and not work with another > dev > > to merge), it does get a bit easier. Then you don't even need to use a > > server (GitHub) but can run git completely on your seat. The same GUI > > tools mentioned above can be used there as well. > > > > Command line tools are there but not required. As I mentioned above, I > use > > a GUI for just about all of my git usage. They make it easy to see what > > happened and when. > > > > Hopefully this helps a little. I think there are a couple of videos from > > conferences over the past few years covering Git. I know that there is > at > > least one that I did (but it was targeted at building LC from source). > > > > Thanks, > > Brian > > > >> On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 5:39 PM Pi Digital via use-livecode < > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> > >> Fab :D > >> > >> however, ‘how’ does one… > >> (i) set up a GitHub (I know how, this is for the benefit of others), > >> (ii) perform commits, push, pulls (perhaps using LC and having an LC > >> library/widget for this would be best), > >> (iii) merge to a branch, > >> (iv) switch branches > >> All the while making it simple for even the most beginner of beginners > to > >> understand, like everything else in LC *Should be? > >> > >> It’s like giving us the front door but the hallway floor is missing. > >> > >> There is no guide on real world usage so we are left stranded with it. > >> > >> Here’s the actual situation myself and my colleague face. At the moment > >> one of us works on the app, makes some changes, zips it up, and posts > it up > >> to a server. Then the other does the same ad infinitum. > >> > >> But what you have described is not much different. How can we really > tell > >> who made changes unless we know the uid for the script or card (for > layout) > >> or object? And are we all supposed to now become command line experts to > >> manage an svc? I’m puzzled at the moment. > >> > >> It shows great promise, but it’s still not fully ready, is it. It’s > >> usable, like LCB, if you can do lower level stuff. But not many using LC > >> are able, hence why they use LC. Everything LC, and I mean everything, > that > >> is front end for LC users *Should, note, Should be High Level and easy > to > >> code & understand. The plug-in language for SmartCrumbs is dreamy. Thank > >> you whoever came up with that. I love it! LCB is a nightmare and could > have > >> been done so much better - much more in line with the HyperCard > principle. > >> > >> Sean Cole > >> Pi > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Fri Sep 2 02:18:13 2022 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 16:18:13 +1000 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance Message-ID: <2D910BA5-56BF-4F58-BF20-F248F1A5296F@optusnet.com.au> Standardising fonts, so that one would no longer have to check that every label and field carefully crafted on the Mac to fit text precisely would not have missing pixels or whole words wrapped out of sight on Windows because of different font metrics, sounds like a great idea. But the reality of the way systems render fonts seems to complicate things: I set up a test standalone with the Google fonts NotoSans-regular.ttf and NotoSerif-regular.ttf installed. A label and and single line text field were set up to be exactly the right size to fit some text using Arial font on a Mac (Monterey). Then the labels and field were set to use NotoSans or NotoSerif fonts. There does still appear to be a small difference in the baselines for the two fonts between Mac and Windows, possibly more than the difference between Arial on the two platforms, so that I think pixels could be cut off under some circumstances. Bizarrely there is a bigger difference between NotoSerif as rendered on Monterey and High Sierra — on High Sierra the space character seems to be more compressible when the system tries to fit a right-justified label into a given length - or possibly the 8pixel margins are honoured on High Sierra, whereas on Monterey the text just overwrote the left margin? When it comes to Linux (Ubuntu) however everything came unstuck. The NotoSans text renders much wider, wrapping the final word of a piece of text to the next line. At least I think it is using NotoSans: LC lists the NotoSans and NotoSerif files as in use, but the Serif font just doesn’t render at all (that is, it does not change the displayed text)! It could be the system is substituting another font entirely for NotoSans, and not recognising NotoSerif [does the font have to be set to NotoSerif-regular on Linux rather than NotoSerif??]. I need to make a more detailed comparisons. I presume the LC text measurement functions return the exact pixel height and width that the text will use when rendered by the iterating system, but can I get the bottom-right of its rect? And the actual font the system will employ? Neville From gcanyon at gmail.com Fri Sep 2 04:00:27 2022 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 01:00:27 -0700 Subject: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: <951cdea0-756c-3d78-97f4-448ee7baa13f@fourthworld.com> References: <951cdea0-756c-3d78-97f4-448ee7baa13f@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 10:08 AM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Its much faster than C but slower than Script. Should that be "much slower than C but faster than Script"? In which case, what happened to the "faster than script" part? From gcanyon at gmail.com Fri Sep 2 04:05:30 2022 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 01:05:30 -0700 Subject: Stylistic question. In-Reply-To: <990BFD28-D609-4498-9DF0-A80E605861C4@iotecdigital.com> References: <1818ceeb0b0.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <990BFD28-D609-4498-9DF0-A80E605861C4@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 10:32 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I will however ask for just one enhancement: If I am filtering the list > and have an item or items selected, and then I clear the filter, it also > clears the selection. It would be great if the selection could be > maintained or restored. > I'm surprised it doesn't actually. I'll take a look. And: thanks for the kind words. I'm still surprised by its longevity. gc From merakosp at gmail.com Fri Sep 2 04:24:24 2022 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis m) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 11:24:24 +0300 Subject: Text to speech In-Reply-To: References: <1208fc7b-7f41-131f-5767-d26ada36f378@hyperactivesw.com> <17eef8bf-c4f2-c828-a5fb-1af24dd66f8f@researchware.com> <182faee5e70.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Hello all, Yes, we discussed this topic in August's Problem Solving session. The stack presented supports text-to-speech in all platforms (including Linux and Web). Kind regards, Panos -- On Fri, 2 Sept 2022 at 00:36, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I think it was the July Problem solving session, but it could have been > August's. I think July 14th's session. > > > > On 9/1/2022 5:21 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > > Thank you. I keep missing the conferences and I need to watch them > > later. Do you happen to recall which one it was? It sounds like > > exactly what I'm looking for. > > > > -- > > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > On September 1, 2022 3:44:56 PM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode > > wrote: > > > >> On 9/1/2022 4:33 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > >>> What library/commands do you use for text to speech? I see that > >>> revSpeak works on Windows and Mac, and the speech library ("speech*") > >>> works on android, iOS, and Mac. What do you use if you want to support > >>> all four platforms? Do you just branch to revSpeak for Windows? > >>> > >> > >> I think Panos just shows how to build a common text to speech library > >> for all platforms from these two built-in in a recent Livecode Global > >> problem solving session. > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 2 10:53:25 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 14:53:25 +0000 Subject: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <951cdea0-756c-3d78-97f4-448ee7baa13f@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <35D81BBE-2D4A-4B61-80AB-3ED4C5DF2229@iotecdigital.com> Or slower than both? As I understand it, LCB has the capability to call C externals which themselves would be faster than anything, but on it's own it is slower than both. Bob S On Sep 2, 2022, at 01:00 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode > wrote: On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 10:08 AM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: Its much faster than C but slower than Script. Should that be "much slower than C but faster than Script"? In which case, what happened to the "faster than script" part? From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 2 10:59:25 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 14:59:25 +0000 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: <2D910BA5-56BF-4F58-BF20-F248F1A5296F@optusnet.com.au> References: <2D910BA5-56BF-4F58-BF20-F248F1A5296F@optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <82919547-9C9B-4117-A9B1-BF0EC4A2F37A@iotecdigital.com> I read a blog some years back why it is so difficult to get nything on Windows to look like it does on the Mac. It is true that Windows renders fonts differently that Mac, so "exactly the same" remains the realm of the imagined. But you can get close. My big issue was that using Arial, labels that were right aligned and auto fitted on the Mac would overflow the left f the label on Windows. Now I am using Aclonica for form headers, Acme for labels and Actor for fields, buttons and grids. (Didn't have to look far did I?) I'm pretty happy now with the rendering of each on both platforms. Bob S On Sep 1, 2022, at 23:18 , Neville Smythe via use-livecode > wrote: Standardising fonts, so that one would no longer have to check that every label and field carefully crafted on the Mac to fit text precisely would not have missing pixels or whole words wrapped out of sight on Windows because of different font metrics, sounds like a great idea. But the reality of the way systems render fonts seems to complicate things: I set up a test standalone with the Google fonts NotoSans-regular.ttf and NotoSerif-regular.ttf installed. A label and and single line text field were set up to be exactly the right size to fit some text using Arial font on a Mac (Monterey). Then the labels and field were set to use NotoSans or NotoSerif fonts. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Fri Sep 2 11:09:44 2022 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 18:09:44 +0300 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: <82919547-9C9B-4117-A9B1-BF0EC4A2F37A@iotecdigital.com> References: <2D910BA5-56BF-4F58-BF20-F248F1A5296F@optusnet.com.au> <82919547-9C9B-4117-A9B1-BF0EC4A2F37A@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: For what it's worth, ever since my Master's thesis with LiveCode/RunRev, I have always set up buttons with fonts the way I want them on whatever platform, imported snapshots of those buttons, and used those images as buttons. No stress, No mess! On Fri, 2 Sept 2022, 18:00 Bob Sneidar via use-livecode, < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I read a blog some years back why it is so difficult to get nything on > Windows to look like it does on the Mac. It is true that Windows renders > fonts differently that Mac, so "exactly the same" remains the realm of the > imagined. But you can get close. My big issue was that using Arial, labels > that were right aligned and auto fitted on the Mac would overflow the left > f the label on Windows. > > Now I am using Aclonica for form headers, Acme for labels and Actor for > fields, buttons and grids. (Didn't have to look far did I?) I'm pretty > happy now with the rendering of each on both platforms. > > Bob S > > > On Sep 1, 2022, at 23:18 , Neville Smythe via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> > wrote: > > Standardising fonts, so that one would no longer have to check that every > label and field carefully crafted on the Mac to fit text precisely would > not have missing pixels or whole words wrapped out of sight on Windows > because of different font metrics, sounds like a great idea. But the > reality of the way systems render fonts seems to complicate things: > > I set up a test standalone with the Google fonts NotoSans-regular.ttf and > NotoSerif-regular.ttf installed. A label and and single line text field > were set up to be exactly the right size to fit some text using Arial font > on a Mac (Monterey). Then the labels and field were set to use NotoSans or > NotoSerif fonts. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri Sep 2 11:11:33 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 11:11:33 -0400 Subject: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: <35D81BBE-2D4A-4B61-80AB-3ED4C5DF2229@iotecdigital.com> References: <951cdea0-756c-3d78-97f4-448ee7baa13f@fourthworld.com> <35D81BBE-2D4A-4B61-80AB-3ED4C5DF2229@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: I wonder why the polygrid is so much faster than the datagrid at rendering, then, in the demo On Fri, Sep 2, 2022 at 10:54 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Or slower than both? As I understand it, LCB has the capability to call C > externals which themselves would be faster than anything, but on it's own > it is slower than both. > > Bob S > > > On Sep 2, 2022, at 01:00 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> > wrote: > > On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 10:08 AM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> > wrote: > > Its much faster than C but slower than Script. > > Should that be "much slower than C but faster than Script"? > > In which case, what happened to the "faster than script" part? > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Sep 2 11:21:01 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2022 10:21:01 -0500 Subject: Text to speech In-Reply-To: References: <1208fc7b-7f41-131f-5767-d26ada36f378@hyperactivesw.com> <17eef8bf-c4f2-c828-a5fb-1af24dd66f8f@researchware.com> <182faee5e70.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <182feca8348.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Fantastic, thank you both. You've saved me hours of time. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On September 2, 2022 3:26:38 AM panagiotis m via use-livecode wrote: > Hello all, > > Yes, we discussed this topic in August's Problem Solving session. The stack > presented supports text-to-speech in all platforms (including Linux and > Web). > > Kind regards, > Panos > -- > > On Fri, 2 Sept 2022 at 00:36, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> I think it was the July Problem solving session, but it could have been >> August's. I think July 14th's session. From ahsoftware at sonic.net Fri Sep 2 11:21:49 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 08:21:49 -0700 Subject: Livecode / Github In-Reply-To: References: <9c8f45ac-f894-62cf-a318-6a1c3553f36c@sonic.net> <426260FD-18BC-48A1-987F-E578E58E904B@pidigital.co.uk> <5495add8-b356-ddb9-e934-ee09f27e946e@sonic.net> Message-ID: On 9/1/22 18:47, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote: > Mark, this is the same bug that you already filed: > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23910 Hah! Forgot about that one. Same root cause but different symptoms, since it also results in a complete failure of the Plugins feature without throwing any errors. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From tom at makeshyft.com Fri Sep 2 12:40:58 2022 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 12:40:58 -0400 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: References: <2D910BA5-56BF-4F58-BF20-F248F1A5296F@optusnet.com.au> <82919547-9C9B-4117-A9B1-BF0EC4A2F37A@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Bob, if you really wanna think about the user, check out resource such as this: https://www.vandelaydesign.com/google-font-pairings/ On Fri, Sep 2, 2022 at 11:10 AM Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > For what it's worth, ever since my Master's thesis with LiveCode/RunRev, I > have always set up buttons with fonts the way I want them on whatever > platform, imported snapshots of those buttons, and used those images as > buttons. > > No stress, No mess! > > On Fri, 2 Sept 2022, 18:00 Bob Sneidar via use-livecode, < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > I read a blog some years back why it is so difficult to get nything on > > Windows to look like it does on the Mac. It is true that Windows renders > > fonts differently that Mac, so "exactly the same" remains the realm of > the > > imagined. But you can get close. My big issue was that using Arial, > labels > > that were right aligned and auto fitted on the Mac would overflow the > left > > f the label on Windows. > > > > Now I am using Aclonica for form headers, Acme for labels and Actor for > > fields, buttons and grids. (Didn't have to look far did I?) I'm pretty > > happy now with the rendering of each on both platforms. > > > > Bob S > > > > > > On Sep 1, 2022, at 23:18 , Neville Smythe via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> > > wrote: > > > > Standardising fonts, so that one would no longer have to check that every > > label and field carefully crafted on the Mac to fit text precisely would > > not have missing pixels or whole words wrapped out of sight on Windows > > because of different font metrics, sounds like a great idea. But the > > reality of the way systems render fonts seems to complicate things: > > > > I set up a test standalone with the Google fonts NotoSans-regular.ttf and > > NotoSerif-regular.ttf installed. A label and and single line text field > > were set up to be exactly the right size to fit some text using Arial > font > > on a Mac (Monterey). Then the labels and field were set to use NotoSans > or > > NotoSerif fonts. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From jacques.clavel at gmail.com Fri Sep 2 13:43:21 2022 From: jacques.clavel at gmail.com (Jacques Clavel) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 19:43:21 +0200 Subject: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <951cdea0-756c-3d78-97f4-448ee7baa13f@fourthworld.com> <35D81BBE-2D4A-4B61-80AB-3ED4C5DF2229@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: As a typed language, LCB should be more efficient than LCS. Writing programs in LCB is more difficult and time consuming (bogs...) than using higher level language (LCS) You can write exactly the same functions, commands in LCB than in LCS JC Le ven. 2 sept. 2022 à 17:13, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> a écrit : > I wonder why the polygrid is so much faster than the datagrid at rendering, > then, in the demo > > On Fri, Sep 2, 2022 at 10:54 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > Or slower than both? As I understand it, LCB has the capability to call C > > externals which themselves would be faster than anything, but on it's own > > it is slower than both. > > > > Bob S > > > > > > On Sep 2, 2022, at 01:00 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> > > wrote: > > > > On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 10:08 AM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> > > wrote: > > > > Its much faster than C but slower than Script. > > > > Should that be "much slower than C but faster than Script"? > > > > In which case, what happened to the "faster than script" part? > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Jacques Clavel From ahsoftware at sonic.net Fri Sep 2 15:58:09 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 12:58:09 -0700 Subject: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <951cdea0-756c-3d78-97f4-448ee7baa13f@fourthworld.com> <35D81BBE-2D4A-4B61-80AB-3ED4C5DF2229@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <4b8ea7d4-962c-5d78-ba14-93f05aff79cd@sonic.net> On 9/2/22 10:43, Jacques Clavel via use-livecode wrote: > You can write exactly the same functions, commands in LCB than in LCS Um, no. There are quite a few pain points trying to determine the differences in what is supported and what is different. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From brian at milby7.com Fri Sep 2 16:27:28 2022 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 16:27:28 -0400 Subject: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: <4b8ea7d4-962c-5d78-ba14-93f05aff79cd@sonic.net> References: <4b8ea7d4-962c-5d78-ba14-93f05aff79cd@sonic.net> Message-ID: Look no further than comparing the JSON library written in LCB and LCS (PhotonJSON). I’m thinking that the LCS is probably faster. Probably worth a shot to actually test in more detail. I tried to import the smartcrumbs output with the external, LCB and LCS and only the LCS even was successful (probably due to the MD5 hashes). Each has strengths and a use case. LCB can do quite a bit that you just can’t do with LCS. The efficiency of dealing with a single object widget over a grouped control is another plus. I’d imagine quite a bit of the speed of the new widgets over DG is going to be along these lines. LC Mark would be the one to speak to speed differences between LCB and LCS though. Brian Milby brian at milby7.com > On Sep 2, 2022, at 3:59 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > > On 9/2/22 10:43, Jacques Clavel via use-livecode wrote: > >> You can write exactly the same functions, commands in LCB than in LCS > > Um, no. > There are quite a few pain points trying to determine the differences in what is supported and what is different. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 2 17:16:24 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 21:16:24 +0000 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: References: <2D910BA5-56BF-4F58-BF20-F248F1A5296F@optusnet.com.au> <82919547-9C9B-4117-A9B1-BF0EC4A2F37A@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <1AF693E6-CD76-4434-AEDE-B7E3DADF4C42@iotecdigital.com> That's great for buttons. I'd like to implement something for all objects. My goal is to be able to offer the end user a way to change their "motif" with a single click. Imagine being able to set the properties of an object designated as a "class object", the object then getting a propertyChanged message, and then having that propertyChanged handler trigger the change of all the subscribed properties of all the objects that are an instance of that class or sub-class. I see it all in my mind. It wouldn't be that hard to do. I just need to know when a property gets changed in any object. Bob S On Sep 2, 2022, at 08:09 , Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode > wrote: For what it's worth, ever since my Master's thesis with LiveCode/RunRev, I have always set up buttons with fonts the way I want them on whatever platform, imported snapshots of those buttons, and used those images as buttons. No stress, No mess! From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 2 17:16:53 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 21:16:53 +0000 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: References: <2D910BA5-56BF-4F58-BF20-F248F1A5296F@optusnet.com.au> <82919547-9C9B-4117-A9B1-BF0EC4A2F37A@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <04CFA4F9-5BC5-46F3-861B-B03290AA0F24@iotecdigital.com> Oooh thanks Tom. Bob S > On Sep 2, 2022, at 09:40 , Tom Glod via use-livecode wrote: > > Bob, if you really wanna think about the user, check out resource such as > this: > > https://www.vandelaydesign.com/google-font-pairings/ > > On Fri, Sep 2, 2022 at 11:10 AM Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> For what it's worth, ever since my Master's thesis with LiveCode/RunRev, I >> have always set up buttons with fonts the way I want them on whatever >> platform, imported snapshots of those buttons, and used those images as >> buttons. >> >> No stress, No mess! >> >> On Fri, 2 Sept 2022, 18:00 Bob Sneidar via use-livecode, < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>> I read a blog some years back why it is so difficult to get nything on >>> Windows to look like it does on the Mac. It is true that Windows renders >>> fonts differently that Mac, so "exactly the same" remains the realm of >> the >>> imagined. But you can get close. My big issue was that using Arial, >> labels >>> that were right aligned and auto fitted on the Mac would overflow the >> left >>> f the label on Windows. >>> >>> Now I am using Aclonica for form headers, Acme for labels and Actor for >>> fields, buttons and grids. (Didn't have to look far did I?) I'm pretty >>> happy now with the rendering of each on both platforms. >>> >>> Bob S >>> >>> >>> On Sep 1, 2022, at 23:18 , Neville Smythe via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Standardising fonts, so that one would no longer have to check that every >>> label and field carefully crafted on the Mac to fit text precisely would >>> not have missing pixels or whole words wrapped out of sight on Windows >>> because of different font metrics, sounds like a great idea. But the >>> reality of the way systems render fonts seems to complicate things: >>> >>> I set up a test standalone with the Google fonts NotoSans-regular.ttf and >>> NotoSerif-regular.ttf installed. A label and and single line text field >>> were set up to be exactly the right size to fit some text using Arial >> font >>> on a Mac (Monterey). Then the labels and field were set to use NotoSans >> or >>> NotoSerif fonts. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 2 17:30:23 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 21:30:23 +0000 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: References: <2D910BA5-56BF-4F58-BF20-F248F1A5296F@optusnet.com.au> <82919547-9C9B-4117-A9B1-BF0EC4A2F37A@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: See, this is the exact reason why I would love to be able to employ an OOP style system. Simply changing the font, size and style of a few "Master Class" objects could change the entire project's look and feel in a matter of a second or two. As it is, it took me almost an entire day futzing around with fonts I liked, and then going to each and every object and making the changes there. Now I see immediately other font and style combinations I really like! Am I going to spend another day? Hell to the no! See just changing a font might not be enough. Often the size and lineheight have to be changed at the same time to get it to look proper. But this could go even further. Imagine having a behavior as a property that can be subclassed! You could test script changes in one object, then when ready, set the behavior of a class object and all the other objects subscribed to that class object would get the new behavior. As is, any changes to a behavior automatically affect all the objects that use it. Currently you can systematically improve the code all at once, or screw the pooch. All at once. The possibilities and benefits are many. I just. Need. That. Message. LOL! :-) Bob S > On Sep 2, 2022, at 09:40 , Tom Glod via use-livecode wrote: > > Bob, if you really wanna think about the user, check out resource such as > this: > > https://www.vandelaydesign.com/google-font-pairings/ > > On Fri, Sep 2, 2022 at 11:10 AM Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> For what it's worth, ever since my Master's thesis with LiveCode/RunRev, I >> have always set up buttons with fonts the way I want them on whatever >> platform, imported snapshots of those buttons, and used those images as >> buttons. >> >> No stress, No mess! >> >> On Fri, 2 Sept 2022, 18:00 Bob Sneidar via use-livecode, < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>> I read a blog some years back why it is so difficult to get nything on >>> Windows to look like it does on the Mac. It is true that Windows renders >>> fonts differently that Mac, so "exactly the same" remains the realm of >> the >>> imagined. But you can get close. My big issue was that using Arial, >> labels >>> that were right aligned and auto fitted on the Mac would overflow the >> left >>> f the label on Windows. >>> >>> Now I am using Aclonica for form headers, Acme for labels and Actor for >>> fields, buttons and grids. (Didn't have to look far did I?) I'm pretty >>> happy now with the rendering of each on both platforms. >>> >>> Bob S >>> >>> >>> On Sep 1, 2022, at 23:18 , Neville Smythe via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Standardising fonts, so that one would no longer have to check that every >>> label and field carefully crafted on the Mac to fit text precisely would >>> not have missing pixels or whole words wrapped out of sight on Windows >>> because of different font metrics, sounds like a great idea. But the >>> reality of the way systems render fonts seems to complicate things: >>> >>> I set up a test standalone with the Google fonts NotoSans-regular.ttf and >>> NotoSerif-regular.ttf installed. A label and and single line text field >>> were set up to be exactly the right size to fit some text using Arial >> font >>> on a Mac (Monterey). Then the labels and field were set to use NotoSans >> or >>> NotoSerif fonts. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Fri Sep 2 19:42:24 2022 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 09:42:24 +1000 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance Message-ID: Consulting the dictionary would have helped me (in this case!): measureText(text,field,bounds) should give me what I need to make precise comparisons of how the various operating (iterating?!!!) systems will render my fonts. I will report back Interesting idea, Richard, to use images for all labels. I presume you automate the export process, it would seem to be rather large task when one can have hundreds of label fields. And it wouldn’t work for fields with dynamic content. Neville From brian at milby7.com Fri Sep 2 19:54:48 2022 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 19:54:48 -0400 Subject: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55236804-6B06-47A8-8ECF-AA548BC9F892@milby7.com> Did a simple test with 819kb json file: - JSON Library / LCB 5400 ms - PhotonJSON / LCS 400 ms - mergJSON / extension 250 ms Brian Milby brian at milby7.com > On Sep 2, 2022, at 4:27 PM, Brian Milby wrote: > > Look no further than comparing the JSON library written in LCB and LCS (PhotonJSON). I’m thinking that the LCS is probably faster. Probably worth a shot to actually test in more detail. I tried to import the smartcrumbs output with the external, LCB and LCS and only the LCS even was successful (probably due to the MD5 hashes). > > Each has strengths and a use case. LCB can do quite a bit that you just can’t do with LCS. The efficiency of dealing with a single object widget over a grouped control is another plus. I’d imagine quite a bit of the speed of the new widgets over DG is going to be along these lines. LC Mark would be the one to speak to speed differences between LCB and LCS though. > > Brian Milby > brian at milby7.com > >>> On Sep 2, 2022, at 3:59 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> On 9/2/22 10:43, Jacques Clavel via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> You can write exactly the same functions, commands in LCB than in LCS >> >> Um, no. >> There are quite a few pain points trying to determine the differences in what is supported and what is different. >> >> -- >> Mark Wieder >> ahsoftware at gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ahsoftware at sonic.net Fri Sep 2 20:41:17 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 17:41:17 -0700 Subject: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: <55236804-6B06-47A8-8ECF-AA548BC9F892@milby7.com> References: <55236804-6B06-47A8-8ECF-AA548BC9F892@milby7.com> Message-ID: On 9/2/22 16:54, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote: > Did a simple test with 819kb json file: > - JSON Library / LCB 5400 ms > - PhotonJSON / LCS 400 ms > - mergJSON / extension 250 ms That's impressive. Monte's external is written in C, so that's as close to bare metal as we're gonna get. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri Sep 2 22:12:06 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 19:12:06 -0700 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <68520646-b2dd-84f9-3b04-57519f636741@fourthworld.com> Bob Sneidar wrote: > See, this is the exact reason why I would love to be able to employ > an OOP style system. Simply changing the font, size and style of a > few "Master Class" objects could change the entire project's look > and feel in a matter of a second or two. As it is, it took me almost > an entire day futzing around with fonts I liked, and then going to > each and every object and making the changes there. Now I see > immediately other font and style combinations I really like! Am I > going to spend another day? Hell to the no! See just changing a font > might not be enough. Often the size and lineheight have to be changed > at the same time to get it to look proper. How does this proposed system know which objects are bound to a style defined elsewhere and which ones aren't? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 2 22:27:43 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 02:27:43 +0000 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: <68520646-b2dd-84f9-3b04-57519f636741@fourthworld.com> References: <68520646-b2dd-84f9-3b04-57519f636741@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Like any other OOP system. By providing a way to instance an object from the class, and then modify the parameters if necessary. Not saying it wouldn’t take code. But the code would not be difficult to implement. Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 2, 2022, at 19:13, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > Bob Sneidar wrote: > > > See, this is the exact reason why I would love to be able to employ > > an OOP style system. Simply changing the font, size and style of a > > few "Master Class" objects could change the entire project's look > > and feel in a matter of a second or two. As it is, it took me almost > > an entire day futzing around with fonts I liked, and then going to > > each and every object and making the changes there. Now I see > > immediately other font and style combinations I really like! Am I > > going to spend another day? Hell to the no! See just changing a font > > might not be enough. Often the size and lineheight have to be changed > > at the same time to get it to look proper. > > How does this proposed system know which objects are bound to a style defined elsewhere and which ones aren't? > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 2 22:31:10 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 02:31:10 +0000 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: References: <68520646-b2dd-84f9-3b04-57519f636741@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <223D74D0-FB71-440B-A350-B99DD46E85B9@iotecdigital.com> Imagine right-clicking on the card, getting. Menu, field, button, grid, widget. Next level, named instance of a predefined class. Code drops the field then registers the object with the class object. Now the class object knows which objects to modify. Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 2, 2022, at 19:27, Bob Sneidar wrote: > > Like any other OOP system. By providing a way to instance an object from the class, and then modify the parameters if necessary. Not saying it wouldn’t take code. But the code would not be difficult to implement. > > Sent from my iPhone > >>> On Sep 2, 2022, at 19:13, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> Bob Sneidar wrote: >>> >>> See, this is the exact reason why I would love to be able to employ >>> an OOP style system. Simply changing the font, size and style of a >>> few "Master Class" objects could change the entire project's look >>> and feel in a matter of a second or two. As it is, it took me almost >>> an entire day futzing around with fonts I liked, and then going to >>> each and every object and making the changes there. Now I see >>> immediately other font and style combinations I really like! Am I >>> going to spend another day? Hell to the no! See just changing a font >>> might not be enough. Often the size and lineheight have to be changed >>> at the same time to get it to look proper. >> >> How does this proposed system know which objects are bound to a style defined elsewhere and which ones aren't? >> >> -- >> Richard Gaskin >> Fourth World Systems >> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web >> ____________________________________________________________________ >> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 2 22:32:01 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 02:32:01 +0000 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: <223D74D0-FB71-440B-A350-B99DD46E85B9@iotecdigital.com> References: <68520646-b2dd-84f9-3b04-57519f636741@fourthworld.com> <223D74D0-FB71-440B-A350-B99DD46E85B9@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Should read, drops the object on the card… Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 2, 2022, at 19:31, Bob Sneidar wrote: > > Imagine right-clicking on the card, getting. Menu, field, button, grid, widget. Next level, named instance of a predefined class. Code drops the field then registers the object with the class object. Now the class object knows which objects to modify. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Sep 2, 2022, at 19:27, Bob Sneidar wrote: >> >> Like any other OOP system. By providing a way to instance an object from the class, and then modify the parameters if necessary. Not saying it wouldn’t take code. But the code would not be difficult to implement. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>>>> On Sep 2, 2022, at 19:13, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Bob Sneidar wrote: >>>>> >>>>> See, this is the exact reason why I would love to be able to employ >>>>> an OOP style system. Simply changing the font, size and style of a >>>>> few "Master Class" objects could change the entire project's look >>>>> and feel in a matter of a second or two. As it is, it took me almost >>>>> an entire day futzing around with fonts I liked, and then going to >>>>> each and every object and making the changes there. Now I see >>>>> immediately other font and style combinations I really like! Am I >>>>> going to spend another day? Hell to the no! See just changing a font >>>>> might not be enough. Often the size and lineheight have to be changed >>>>> at the same time to get it to look proper. >>> >>> How does this proposed system know which objects are bound to a style defined elsewhere and which ones aren't? >>> >>> -- >>> Richard Gaskin >>> Fourth World Systems >>> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web >>> ____________________________________________________________________ >>> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ahsoftware at sonic.net Fri Sep 2 22:50:03 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 19:50:03 -0700 Subject: Excel Lib fail Message-ID: <9e4bc610-59b4-7b49-b95a-bd03e38f5503@sonic.net> /sigh Got all excited about using the Excel Library for a new spreadsheet project and then discovered it doesn't work on linux, *only* works with actual Excel, not LibreOffice. Yes, I do realize it says "Excel" and not "spreadsheet". So it's off to python to do my spreadsheet automation. Sheesh. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 2 23:12:35 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 03:12:35 +0000 Subject: Excel Lib fail In-Reply-To: <9e4bc610-59b4-7b49-b95a-bd03e38f5503@sonic.net> References: <9e4bc610-59b4-7b49-b95a-bd03e38f5503@sonic.net> Message-ID: Ya I think it uses a Microsoft API. Mac side, probably Applescript. Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 2, 2022, at 19:51, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > > /sigh > Got all excited about using the Excel Library for a new spreadsheet project and then discovered it doesn't work on linux, *only* works with actual Excel, not LibreOffice. Yes, I do realize it says "Excel" and not "spreadsheet". > > So it's off to python to do my spreadsheet automation. Sheesh. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ahsoftware at sonic.net Fri Sep 2 23:59:38 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 20:59:38 -0700 Subject: Excel Lib fail In-Reply-To: References: <9e4bc610-59b4-7b49-b95a-bd03e38f5503@sonic.net> Message-ID: <34fc7f87-a447-301b-88b0-46b35c8aa9bb@sonic.net> On 9/2/22 20:12, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > Ya I think it uses a Microsoft API. Mac side, probably Applescript. Yep. Fortunately LibreOffice is pretty easy to automate from python. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From gcanyon at gmail.com Sat Sep 3 03:37:29 2022 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 00:37:29 -0700 Subject: propertyChanged message In-Reply-To: References: <21EE8FB7-D2D3-45A6-A95F-844F542EA5BE@iotecdigital.com> <721b6787-c546-d981-0cbe-cabe4651808d@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: > what if I wanted to change the font settings again, but only for say, labels, and only certain labels and not others? There are multiple ways to do (something like) this in Navigator. 1. Navigator can display all the controls in a stack (show the card list, select all the cards, right click and browse controls). Then Navigator can filter those controls, either by simple text match against the displayed strings (which can be the name, id, long name, long id, or other options) or by test -- so you can match however you like, using the three characters "tID" to represent the object being tested. For example, word 1 of the long name of tID is "button" and the width of tID is 100 Would filter to just buttons 100 pixels wide. You can of course filter on custom properties if you want to tag the controls. Then whatever font or other property you want to set can be changed. 2. Navigator can search all the controls in a stack and its substacks (or whatever cards, stacks etc. you right click), again using whatever test you can come up with, and create bookmarks for all of the matching controls. Then selecting those bookmarks, you can change whatever property you like. I would say you can save those bookmarks for later reference, but I just tested and that appears broken. I'll have to fix it. 3. Finally, you could select whatever controls you like and then apply a command. The command can be whatever script you like. Bookmarking/filtering/selecting only the controls you want would be best, but you could also perform tests in the command -- e.g. if you were applying the command to many types of controls, but wanted to ignore fields with "label" in the name, you do something like: if word 1 of the long name of tID is "field" and the short name of tID contains "label" then next repeat -- whatever font-setting code you like here. That would be less efficient than identifying the controls yourself, but probably faster if you include your time filtering and selecting. Commands can be saved (I just checked, that works) but I don't think they can easily be modified (they're saved as text, so there's definitely *some* way to do it). It would be possible to have a command ask for the font -- you can include something like: if tIndex = 1 then ask "what font" with empty; put it into tFont end if -- font setting code here In any case let me know if you decide to use Navigator and need help. gc From bogdanoff at me.com Sat Sep 3 06:12:06 2022 From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 03:12:06 -0700 Subject: Text to speech In-Reply-To: References: <1208fc7b-7f41-131f-5767-d26ada36f378@hyperactivesw.com> <17eef8bf-c4f2-c828-a5fb-1af24dd66f8f@researchware.com> <182faee5e70.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Hi, where might the August Problem Solving session be found? Peter Bogdanoff ArtsInteractive > On Sep 2, 2022, at 1:24 AM, panagiotis m via use-livecode wrote: > > Hello all, > > Yes, we discussed this topic in August's Problem Solving session. The stack > presented supports text-to-speech in all platforms (including Linux and > Web). > > Kind regards, > Panos > -- > > On Fri, 2 Sept 2022 at 00:36, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> I think it was the July Problem solving session, but it could have been >> August's. I think July 14th's session. >> >> >> >> On 9/1/2022 5:21 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >>> Thank you. I keep missing the conferences and I need to watch them >>> later. Do you happen to recall which one it was? It sounds like >>> exactly what I'm looking for. >>> >>> -- >>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>> On September 1, 2022 3:44:56 PM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On 9/1/2022 4:33 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >>>>> What library/commands do you use for text to speech? I see that >>>>> revSpeak works on Windows and Mac, and the speech library ("speech*") >>>>> works on android, iOS, and Mac. What do you use if you want to support >>>>> all four platforms? Do you just branch to revSpeak for Windows? >>>>> >>>> >>>> I think Panos just shows how to build a common text to speech library >>>> for all platforms from these two built-in in a recent Livecode Global >>>> problem solving session. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From zryip.theslug at gmail.com Sat Sep 3 06:32:37 2022 From: zryip.theslug at gmail.com (zryip theSlug) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 12:32:37 +0200 Subject: Excel Lib fail In-Reply-To: <9e4bc610-59b4-7b49-b95a-bd03e38f5503@sonic.net> References: <9e4bc610-59b4-7b49-b95a-bd03e38f5503@sonic.net> Message-ID: Dear Mark, Did you try the XLXS Lib instead of the Excel Lib? On Sat, 3 Sept 2022 at 04:51, Mark Wieder via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > /sigh > Got all excited about using the Excel Library for a new spreadsheet > project and then discovered it doesn't work on linux, *only* works with > actual Excel, not LibreOffice. Yes, I do realize it says "Excel" and not > "spreadsheet". > > So it's off to python to do my spreadsheet automation. Sheesh. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Zryip TheSlug http://www.aslugontheroad.com From paul at researchware.com Sat Sep 3 07:53:36 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 07:53:36 -0400 Subject: Text to speech In-Reply-To: References: <1208fc7b-7f41-131f-5767-d26ada36f378@hyperactivesw.com> <17eef8bf-c4f2-c828-a5fb-1af24dd66f8f@researchware.com> <182faee5e70.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <93312178-1fe1-a0cf-3be7-22d56173a311@researchware.com> If you purchased a subscription to the LiveCode Global 22-23 conference, then you can go to livecode.com and login to the store and navigate to your account and you will see "LiveCode Global 22/23 - The Year of Reinvention" under Conferences in the sidebar. All the video's are under there - and I think a way to get the sample files as well. On 9/3/2022 6:12 AM, Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode wrote: > Hi, where might the August Problem Solving session be found? > > Peter Bogdanoff > ArtsInteractive > >> On Sep 2, 2022, at 1:24 AM, panagiotis m via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Hello all, >> >> Yes, we discussed this topic in August's Problem Solving session. The stack >> presented supports text-to-speech in all platforms (including Linux and >> Web). >> >> Kind regards, >> Panos >> -- >> >> On Fri, 2 Sept 2022 at 00:36, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>> I think it was the July Problem solving session, but it could have been >>> August's. I think July 14th's session. >>> >>> >>> >>> On 9/1/2022 5:21 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >>>> Thank you. I keep missing the conferences and I need to watch them >>>> later. Do you happen to recall which one it was? It sounds like >>>> exactly what I'm looking for. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>>> On September 1, 2022 3:44:56 PM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 9/1/2022 4:33 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >>>>>> What library/commands do you use for text to speech? I see that >>>>>> revSpeak works on Windows and Mac, and the speech library ("speech*") >>>>>> works on android, iOS, and Mac. What do you use if you want to support >>>>>> all four platforms? Do you just branch to revSpeak for Windows? >>>>>> >>>>> I think Panos just shows how to build a common text to speech library >>>>> for all platforms from these two built-in in a recent Livecode Global >>>>> problem solving session. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Sat Sep 3 07:56:24 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 07:56:24 -0400 Subject: Excel Lib fail In-Reply-To: <9e4bc610-59b4-7b49-b95a-bd03e38f5503@sonic.net> References: <9e4bc610-59b4-7b49-b95a-bd03e38f5503@sonic.net> Message-ID: <4ffafc24-1673-a1db-9f5d-d85a2d565731@researchware.com> On 9/2/2022 10:50 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > /sigh > Got all excited about using the Excel Library for a new spreadsheet > project and then discovered it doesn't work on linux, *only* works > with actual Excel, not LibreOffice. Yes, I do realize it says "Excel" > and not "spreadsheet". > > So it's off to python to do my spreadsheet automation. Sheesh. > Are you looking to remote control LibreOffice? or just write a spreadsheet from Livecode. If writing a spreadhseet, consider Curry's SpreadOut library. It works great for creating .xlsx files in Livecode script. From ahsoftware at sonic.net Sat Sep 3 11:26:46 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 08:26:46 -0700 Subject: Excel Lib fail In-Reply-To: References: <9e4bc610-59b4-7b49-b95a-bd03e38f5503@sonic.net> Message-ID: On 9/3/22 03:32, zryip theSlug via use-livecode wrote: > Dear Mark, > > Did you try the XLXS Lib instead of the Excel Lib? No, why would I have known to try that? -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ahsoftware at sonic.net Sat Sep 3 11:30:43 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 08:30:43 -0700 Subject: Excel Lib fail In-Reply-To: <4ffafc24-1673-a1db-9f5d-d85a2d565731@researchware.com> References: <9e4bc610-59b4-7b49-b95a-bd03e38f5503@sonic.net> <4ffafc24-1673-a1db-9f5d-d85a2d565731@researchware.com> Message-ID: On 9/3/22 04:56, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > Are you looking to remote control LibreOffice? or just write a > spreadsheet from Livecode. If writing a spreadhseet, consider Curry's > SpreadOut library. It works great for creating .xlsx files in Livecode > script. Thanks, but a little bit of python does the trick. And no, I need to manipulate a .csv file (format is not under my control) into a spreadsheet, change the column headers text, and move a couple of columns around. Easy to do as a one-off, but we're gonna need pretty much daily reports until the election on 8 November. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From zryip.theslug at gmail.com Sat Sep 3 13:35:11 2022 From: zryip.theslug at gmail.com (zryip theSlug) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 19:35:11 +0200 Subject: Excel Lib fail In-Reply-To: References: <9e4bc610-59b4-7b49-b95a-bd03e38f5503@sonic.net> Message-ID: Dear Mark, Due to this article, maybe? https://livecode.com/xlsx-lib-a-bonus-library-included-with-excel-library-in-the-megabundle-offer/ On Sat, 3 Sept 2022 at 17:28, Mark Wieder via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 9/3/22 03:32, zryip theSlug via use-livecode wrote: > > Dear Mark, > > > > Did you try the XLXS Lib instead of the Excel Lib? > > No, why would I have known to try that? > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Zryip TheSlug http://www.aslugontheroad.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Sep 3 16:29:01 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 15:29:01 -0500 Subject: Text to speech In-Reply-To: <93312178-1fe1-a0cf-3be7-22d56173a311@researchware.com> References: <1208fc7b-7f41-131f-5767-d26ada36f378@hyperactivesw.com> <17eef8bf-c4f2-c828-a5fb-1af24dd66f8f@researchware.com> <182faee5e70.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <93312178-1fe1-a0cf-3be7-22d56173a311@researchware.com> Message-ID: On Sep 2, 2022, at 1:24 AM, panagiotis wrote: > Yes, we discussed this topic in August's Problem Solving session. The stack > presented supports text-to-speech in all platforms (including Linux and > Web). I just watched the video and this is exactly what I was looking for. I didn't know until a couple of days ago that I would need to implement speech across all platforms, so I suspect you are either a mind reader or you got ahold of my time warp stack and knew what I was going to ask before I did. Either way, thank you for your prescience. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From marksmithhfx at gmail.com Sat Sep 3 16:37:03 2022 From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 21:37:03 +0100 Subject: Text to speech In-Reply-To: References: <1208fc7b-7f41-131f-5767-d26ada36f378@hyperactivesw.com> <17eef8bf-c4f2-c828-a5fb-1af24dd66f8f@researchware.com> <182faee5e70.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <93312178-1fe1-a0cf-3be7-22d56173a311@researchware.com> Message-ID: Hi Jacque, It’s wonderful when things just “fall into place” like that, isn’t it? I actually had no need for this at present, but I am glad you did. It’s a marvel to see solutions just “fall into your lap”. Happy coding. Mark > On 3 Sep 2022, at 9:29 pm, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > > On Sep 2, 2022, at 1:24 AM, panagiotis wrote: >> Yes, we discussed this topic in August's Problem Solving session. The stack >> presented supports text-to-speech in all platforms (including Linux and >> Web). > > I just watched the video and this is exactly what I was looking for. I didn't know until a couple of days ago that I would need to implement speech across all platforms, so I suspect you are either a mind reader or you got ahold of my time warp stack and knew what I was going to ask before I did. > > Either way, thank you for your prescience. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bogdanoff at me.com Sat Sep 3 17:09:14 2022 From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 14:09:14 -0700 Subject: Text to speech In-Reply-To: <93312178-1fe1-a0cf-3be7-22d56173a311@researchware.com> References: <1208fc7b-7f41-131f-5767-d26ada36f378@hyperactivesw.com> <17eef8bf-c4f2-c828-a5fb-1af24dd66f8f@researchware.com> <182faee5e70.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <93312178-1fe1-a0cf-3be7-22d56173a311@researchware.com> Message-ID: Thanks Paul. I missed the session. And there it is. Peter > On Sep 3, 2022, at 4:53 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > > If you purchased a subscription to the LiveCode Global 22-23 conference, then you can go to livecode.com and login to the store and navigate to your account and you will see "LiveCode Global 22/23 - The Year of Reinvention" under Conferences in the sidebar. All the video's are under there - and I think a way to get the sample files as well. > > > On 9/3/2022 6:12 AM, Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode wrote: >> Hi, where might the August Problem Solving session be found? >> >> Peter Bogdanoff >> ArtsInteractive >> >>> On Sep 2, 2022, at 1:24 AM, panagiotis m via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> Yes, we discussed this topic in August's Problem Solving session. The stack >>> presented supports text-to-speech in all platforms (including Linux and >>> Web). >>> >>> Kind regards, >>> Panos >>> -- >>> >>> On Fri, 2 Sept 2022 at 00:36, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>>> I think it was the July Problem solving session, but it could have been >>>> August's. I think July 14th's session. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 9/1/2022 5:21 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >>>>> Thank you. I keep missing the conferences and I need to watch them >>>>> later. Do you happen to recall which one it was? It sounds like >>>>> exactly what I'm looking for. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>>>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>>>> On September 1, 2022 3:44:56 PM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On 9/1/2022 4:33 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >>>>>>> What library/commands do you use for text to speech? I see that >>>>>>> revSpeak works on Windows and Mac, and the speech library ("speech*") >>>>>>> works on android, iOS, and Mac. What do you use if you want to support >>>>>>> all four platforms? Do you just branch to revSpeak for Windows? >>>>>>> >>>>>> I think Panos just shows how to build a common text to speech library >>>>>> for all platforms from these two built-in in a recent Livecode Global >>>>>> problem solving session. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Sat Sep 3 17:47:33 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 21:47:33 +0000 Subject: Text to speech In-Reply-To: References: <1208fc7b-7f41-131f-5767-d26ada36f378@hyperactivesw.com> <17eef8bf-c4f2-c828-a5fb-1af24dd66f8f@researchware.com> <182faee5e70.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <93312178-1fe1-a0cf-3be7-22d56173a311@researchware.com> Message-ID: <30A33230-7A6A-4A5A-9E94-1FB4ACC0BC3A@iotecdigital.com> I swear I didn’t give him the time warp stack 3 years from now. Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 3, 2022, at 13:30, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > > I just watched the video and this is exactly what I was looking for. I didn't know until a couple of days ago that I would need to implement speech across all platforms, so I suspect you are either a mind reader or you got ahold of my time warp stack and knew what I was going to ask before I did. > > Either way, thank you for your prescience From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Sep 3 19:31:45 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 18:31:45 -0500 Subject: Text to speech In-Reply-To: <30A33230-7A6A-4A5A-9E94-1FB4ACC0BC3A@iotecdigital.com> References: <1208fc7b-7f41-131f-5767-d26ada36f378@hyperactivesw.com> <17eef8bf-c4f2-c828-a5fb-1af24dd66f8f@researchware.com> <182faee5e70.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <93312178-1fe1-a0cf-3be7-22d56173a311@researchware.com> <30A33230-7A6A-4A5A-9E94-1FB4ACC0BC3A@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <15021695-eb58-68ae-94ec-058a7738eed2@hyperactivesw.com> Oh sure, that's what you will have said last time too. :P On 9/3/22 4:47 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > I swear I didn’t give him the time warp stack 3 years from now. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Sep 3, 2022, at 13:30, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >> >> I just watched the video and this is exactly what I was looking for. I didn't know until a couple of days ago that I would need to implement speech across all platforms, so I suspect you are either a mind reader or you got ahold of my time warp stack and knew what I was going to ask before I did. >> >> Either way, thank you for your prescience > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From ahsoftware at sonic.net Sat Sep 3 19:50:37 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 16:50:37 -0700 Subject: Text to speech In-Reply-To: <15021695-eb58-68ae-94ec-058a7738eed2@hyperactivesw.com> References: <1208fc7b-7f41-131f-5767-d26ada36f378@hyperactivesw.com> <17eef8bf-c4f2-c828-a5fb-1af24dd66f8f@researchware.com> <182faee5e70.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <93312178-1fe1-a0cf-3be7-22d56173a311@researchware.com> <30A33230-7A6A-4A5A-9E94-1FB4ACC0BC3A@iotecdigital.com> <15021695-eb58-68ae-94ec-058a7738eed2@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On 9/3/22 16:31, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > Oh sure, that's what you will have said last time too. :P Bob... you gonna have some 'splainin to do... -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ahsoftware at sonic.net Sat Sep 3 23:36:12 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 20:36:12 -0700 Subject: Excel Lib fail In-Reply-To: References: <9e4bc610-59b4-7b49-b95a-bd03e38f5503@sonic.net> Message-ID: <26f62937-4687-39a9-b49a-b4cc98a39259@sonic.net> On 9/3/22 10:35, zryip theSlug via use-livecode wrote: > Dear Mark, > > Due to this article, maybe? > > https://livecode.com/xlsx-lib-a-bonus-library-included-with-excel-library-in-the-megabundle-offer/ Yep. That's it. Thanks. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Sun Sep 4 05:34:40 2022 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2022 19:34:40 +1000 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance Message-ID: <62E382FB-FD7B-4AB5-BF62-7D163102C9B6@optusnet.com.au> So I have conducted a more careful test of the proposed method of standardising fonts across platforms, that is, installing some Google fonts in the standalone for use in labels and fields, with the objective of setting the rects of objects on the development platform and having the same appearance on all 3 platforms: no more missing pixels or wrapped words because of the differences in fonts between the platforms. Unfortunately the method does quite not give the hoped-for solution. Even though the fonts supposedly have the same metrics, the appearance still differs between platforms. For both NotoSans and NotoSerif I find the baselines differ by one or two pixels between Mac Monterey and Windows (which I don’t really understand, since the ascent is built into the font, but nevertheless becomes different when rendered). The pixel lengths of the tested strings were the same however: allowing just a couple of extra pixels height should be sufficient in these cases. However on Linux (Ubuntu), while the baselines were the same, the length of rendered strings differed markedly, in one test case wrapping a trailing word out of sight. And a nasty surprise, the text length on Mac High Sierra was 8% longer than on Monterey! So I’m afraid one must still write once, test everywhere. Neville From sean at pidigital.co.uk Sun Sep 4 07:49:28 2022 From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Pi Digital) Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2022 12:49:28 +0100 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: <62E382FB-FD7B-4AB5-BF62-7D163102C9B6@optusnet.com.au> References: <62E382FB-FD7B-4AB5-BF62-7D163102C9B6@optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <8A444F8B-4F7F-4C71-A844-56245AB3AB71@pidigital.co.uk> I had a quick turnaround job for some guys in Ghana. It made it a complete nightmare as I had done the original build in Windows, their main platform, and they wanted a backup for Mac. As this was for a TV show where the text was dynamic but had to be identical on both it made it almost impossible. I had to write multiple conditionals to allow for the two platforms display differences of baselines and formatting. Now I recommend they only build for a single platform as it is ‘unreasonable’ to expect that two different systems will perform or display in the same way. Your disturbing highlight of the differences in MacOS appearance was not nice though. Well worth knowing but not great for us, eh? Sean > On 4 Sep 2022, at 10:34, Neville Smythe via use-livecode wrote: > > So I have conducted a more careful test of the proposed method of standardising fonts across platforms, that is, installing some Google fonts in the standalone for use in labels and fields, with the objective of setting the rects of objects on the development platform and having the same appearance on all 3 platforms: no more missing pixels or wrapped words because of the differences in fonts between the platforms. > > Unfortunately the method does quite not give the hoped-for solution. Even though the fonts supposedly have the same metrics, the appearance still differs between platforms. For both NotoSans and NotoSerif I find the baselines differ by one or two pixels between Mac Monterey and Windows (which I don’t really understand, since the ascent is built into the font, but nevertheless becomes different when rendered). The pixel lengths of the tested strings were the same however: allowing just a couple of extra pixels height should be sufficient in these cases. However on Linux (Ubuntu), while the baselines were the same, the length of rendered strings differed markedly, in one test case wrapping a trailing word out of sight. And a nasty surprise, the text length on Mac High Sierra was 8% longer than on Monterey! > > So I’m afraid one must still write once, test everywhere. > > Neville > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bogdanoff at me.com Sun Sep 4 15:34:19 2022 From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff) Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2022 12:34:19 -0700 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: <8A444F8B-4F7F-4C71-A844-56245AB3AB71@pidigital.co.uk> References: <62E382FB-FD7B-4AB5-BF62-7D163102C9B6@optusnet.com.au> <8A444F8B-4F7F-4C71-A844-56245AB3AB71@pidigital.co.uk> Message-ID: <968CA950-5C07-4E45-8C3C-D1D2592EB665@me.com> My project, Music In the Air, has text on pages like a book where we need Windows line wrapping to match exactly the Mac so that text flow to the next page is identical. The solution I came up with is to process the text for Windows in advance—add CRs to each visible line of the Mac text field then export the htmlText to the data storage. When that htmlText is set in the Windows field, I also make the field much wider. Now that every visible line ends with a CR, the visible layout of words is the same as Mac. I’m doing this for both English and Chinese characters. (Displaying Chinese characters to properly fill a field of text is a whole ’nother story, but I won’t get into that here.) Peter Bogdanoff ArtsInteractive > On Sep 4, 2022, at 4:49 AM, Pi Digital via use-livecode wrote: > > I had a quick turnaround job for some guys in Ghana. It made it a complete nightmare as I had done the original build in Windows, their main platform, and they wanted a backup for Mac. As this was for a TV show where the text was dynamic but had to be identical on both it made it almost impossible. I had to write multiple conditionals to allow for the two platforms display differences of baselines and formatting. Now I recommend they only build for a single platform as it is ‘unreasonable’ to expect that two different systems will perform or display in the same way. > > Your disturbing highlight of the differences in MacOS appearance was not nice though. Well worth knowing but not great for us, eh? > > Sean > > >> On 4 Sep 2022, at 10:34, Neville Smythe via use-livecode wrote: >> >> So I have conducted a more careful test of the proposed method of standardising fonts across platforms, that is, installing some Google fonts in the standalone for use in labels and fields, with the objective of setting the rects of objects on the development platform and having the same appearance on all 3 platforms: no more missing pixels or wrapped words because of the differences in fonts between the platforms. >> >> Unfortunately the method does quite not give the hoped-for solution. Even though the fonts supposedly have the same metrics, the appearance still differs between platforms. For both NotoSans and NotoSerif I find the baselines differ by one or two pixels between Mac Monterey and Windows (which I don’t really understand, since the ascent is built into the font, but nevertheless becomes different when rendered). The pixel lengths of the tested strings were the same however: allowing just a couple of extra pixels height should be sufficient in these cases. However on Linux (Ubuntu), while the baselines were the same, the length of rendered strings differed markedly, in one test case wrapping a trailing word out of sight. And a nasty surprise, the text length on Mac High Sierra was 8% longer than on Monterey! >> >> So I’m afraid one must still write once, test everywhere. >> >> Neville >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From sean at pidigital.co.uk Sun Sep 4 15:57:50 2022 From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Pi Digital) Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2022 20:57:50 +0100 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: <968CA950-5C07-4E45-8C3C-D1D2592EB665@me.com> References: <968CA950-5C07-4E45-8C3C-D1D2592EB665@me.com> Message-ID: You could try an svg text widget. Just a unsubstantiated thought. Sean Cole Pi Digital > On 4 Sep 2022, at 20:35, Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode wrote: > > My project, Music In the Air, has text on pages like a book where we need Windows line wrapping to match exactly the Mac so that text flow to the next page is identical. > > The solution I came up with is to process the text for Windows in advance—add CRs to each visible line of the Mac text field then export the htmlText to the data storage. When that htmlText is set in the Windows field, I also make the field much wider. Now that every visible line ends with a CR, the visible layout of words is the same as Mac. > > I’m doing this for both English and Chinese characters. (Displaying Chinese characters to properly fill a field of text is a whole ’nother story, but I won’t get into that here.) > > Peter Bogdanoff > ArtsInteractive > >> On Sep 4, 2022, at 4:49 AM, Pi Digital via use-livecode wrote: >> >> I had a quick turnaround job for some guys in Ghana. It made it a complete nightmare as I had done the original build in Windows, their main platform, and they wanted a backup for Mac. As this was for a TV show where the text was dynamic but had to be identical on both it made it almost impossible. I had to write multiple conditionals to allow for the two platforms display differences of baselines and formatting. Now I recommend they only build for a single platform as it is ‘unreasonable’ to expect that two different systems will perform or display in the same way. >> >> Your disturbing highlight of the differences in MacOS appearance was not nice though. Well worth knowing but not great for us, eh? >> >> Sean >> >> >>>> On 4 Sep 2022, at 10:34, Neville Smythe via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> So I have conducted a more careful test of the proposed method of standardising fonts across platforms, that is, installing some Google fonts in the standalone for use in labels and fields, with the objective of setting the rects of objects on the development platform and having the same appearance on all 3 platforms: no more missing pixels or wrapped words because of the differences in fonts between the platforms. >>> >>> Unfortunately the method does quite not give the hoped-for solution. Even though the fonts supposedly have the same metrics, the appearance still differs between platforms. For both NotoSans and NotoSerif I find the baselines differ by one or two pixels between Mac Monterey and Windows (which I don’t really understand, since the ascent is built into the font, but nevertheless becomes different when rendered). The pixel lengths of the tested strings were the same however: allowing just a couple of extra pixels height should be sufficient in these cases. However on Linux (Ubuntu), while the baselines were the same, the length of rendered strings differed markedly, in one test case wrapping a trailing word out of sight. And a nasty surprise, the text length on Mac High Sierra was 8% longer than on Monterey! >>> >>> So I’m afraid one must still write once, test everywhere. >>> >>> Neville >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Sun Sep 4 21:11:56 2022 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2022 11:11:56 +1000 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance Message-ID: Actually it is possible to ensure the baselines of fields are consistent across platforms without having to use conditionals. From experimentation it appears that the baseline is given (relative to the top of the field) by the top margin - 3*fontAscent/4 -1 where the fontAscent is item 2 of measureText(text,fld,”bounds”) (note this is a negative number; in macOS it is the traditional font ascent, in Windows I think it is the traditional font top ) Since the bottom margin is ignored in this placement, we can force the baseline to be at the bottom margin as follows: put the margins of fld “foo" into tMargins put item 4 of tMargins into tBottomMargin put measuretext(fld “foo",fld “foo",bounds) into tFontInfo put 1 + the height of fld “foo” - tBottomMargin + round(3*(item 2 of tFontInfo)/4) into tTopMargin put tTopMargin into item 2 of tMargins set the margins of fld “foo" to tMargins The pixel length of text however cannot be made consistent across platforms, and one can only allow some extra padding to make sure the text appears unmangled. My very limited experiments with just the fonts NotoSans and NotoSerif at textSize 13 and the text “A standard label:” indicate that Mac Monterey and Windows 10 : text widths are the same Mac High Sierra : about 8% longer Linux Ubuntu: about 15% longer (!!) Other fonts differ more widely between platforms and system versions (perhaps most weirdly 13pt Times on the Mac looks like 9pt) Neville Smythe From cubist at aol.com Mon Sep 5 03:01:56 2022 From: cubist at aol.com (Quentin Long) Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2022 07:01:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Cross-platform font handling, and why you don't want to do it References: <367339530.2317548.1662361316808.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <367339530.2317548.1662361316808@mail.yahoo.com> Cross-platform font compatibility is a hellacious rat's nest of mismatches. It may or may not be worse than handling time (Daylight Savings Time? leap years? leap *seconds*? etc, ad nauseum), but it's plenty bad enough on its own merits, or lack thereof. * You can't be 100% confident that your user will have the same font(s) you do installed on their system. * If your user has a font *of the same name* as your font installed on their system, you can't be 100% confident that *their* font came from the same font foundry as *your* font. Yes, font names are legally protected, but... Helvetica, anyone? * If your user has a font *of the same name* as your font installed on their system, you can't be 100% confident that it's the *same* font you have. Again: Font names are legally protected. But what if you have version 15.0 of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont on your system, but your user only has version 1.0 of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont? Who *knows* what tweaks RandomFontFoundry may have made to WhateverFont in between those two version numbers? * Can you be 100% confident that version 15.0 of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont *for Mac* is going to render *exactly the same* as version 15.0 of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont *for Windows* or *for Linux*? No. You cannot. Different type rendering engines on different OSes *ensure* that rendering compatibility will be problematic at best. * Assuming your user has exactly the same version of exactly the same font on exactly the same OS you do, you can't be 100% confident that your user has installed the font metrics data (kerning, sidebearings, etc)—which means you have no idea if the damn thing will look the same on your user's system as on your system. If you want to *ensure* that some piece of text looks *exactly the same* cross-platform, the only way to get there is to format the text the way you want it on one platform, take a screenshot, and use that graphic. But even then, can you be 100% confident that your user *hasn't* tweaked some setting on their system which messes with graphics..? The "take a screenshot" solution is not well-suited for any use-case involving text which varies from time to time, and largely impractical for any use-case involving text which is input by the user. In principle, it should be possible to create a library of glyph-images of all glyphs in a font, and import those glyph-images as necessary—no, mass quantities of "set the imageSource of char X to $GlyphImage" commands ain't gonna fly, cuz letterspacing will look crappy—but that "solution" is tantamount to building your own, redundant, set of text-handling routines. Yuck! If "take a screenshot" doesn't work for you, I suspect the next-best route to achieving Absolute Cross-Platform Font Fidelity may be this: 1) Open up your font in your font-editing utility of choice (Fontographer, Glyphs, FontLab, whatever) 2) Export your font N times, once for each of the *other* OSes you need font compatibility with—WhateverFontMac, WhateverFontWindows, WhateverFontLinux, etc 3) Open up your stack within each of the OSes you're working with, always using the appropriate OS-specific version of your font, and see how different your stack looks on the other OSes 4) Tweak the font metrics on the other-OS versions of your font until your stack looks the same on all OSes 5) When it's time to distribute your stack, be sure to bundle *all* the hand-tuned OS-versions of your font with your stack This procedure is, of course, a royal pain in the arse. Hellacious rat's nest of mismatches, yada yada yada. But regardless of how painful it is? If you need absolute visual fidelity cross-platform, *and* total flexibility in the *content* of text, this procedure may be your least-bad option. As a perhaps-preferable option: 1) Open up your stack on each of the OSes you're striving for font compatibility on 2) Tweak the appearance-relevant text properties (textFont, textHeight, textShift, etc) on each OS until you get an acceptable approximation of identical appearance 3) Make note of the values of all these text properties for each OS 4) Assuming you have however-many fonts specified by fontName, be sure you bundle all those fonts with your stack when you distribute it 5) Include in your stack's preOpenStack handler a switch which includes "case = WhateverOS" for each OS you want font compatibility for 6) Within each OS's "case", set all the appearance-relevant text properties for that OS This procedure is not going to achieve anywhere near the degree of cross-platform font fidelity as the "roll your own" solution above. On the plus side, it's *significantly* less nitpicky/picayune/painful. You puts in your money, and you takes your chances... "Bewitched" + "Charlie's Angels" - Charlie = "At Arm's Length" Read the webcomic at [ http://www.atarmslength.net ]! If you like "At Arm's Length", support it at [ http://www.patreon.com/DarkwingDude ]. From tom at makeshyft.com Mon Sep 5 12:06:07 2022 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2022 12:06:07 -0400 Subject: Cross-platform font handling, and why you don't want to do it In-Reply-To: <367339530.2317548.1662361316808@mail.yahoo.com> References: <367339530.2317548.1662361316808.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <367339530.2317548.1662361316808@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: It seems like you have an approach that can work well, despite being more work. Mainly shipping the fonts, which cancels out most of the issues, but requires handling each case. I don't know if any multi-platform dev tool deals with fonts without any extra hoops. If I recall correctly, flutter did OK, but not perfectly on the 2 mobile platforms, but I've not tested the desktops, which I am guessing will be worse. Hopefully your wrap up can help people to avoid trying to stick ..... the thing in the thing. Good luck to us all. On Mon, Sep 5, 2022 at 3:03 AM Quentin Long via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Cross-platform font compatibility is a hellacious rat's nest of > mismatches. It may or may not be worse than handling time (Daylight Savings > Time? leap years? leap *seconds*? etc, ad nauseum), but it's plenty bad > enough on its own merits, or lack thereof. > * You can't be 100% confident that your user will have the same font(s) > you do installed on their system. > * If your user has a font *of the same name* as your font installed on > their system, you can't be 100% confident that *their* font came from the > same font foundry as *your* font. Yes, font names are legally protected, > but... Helvetica, anyone? > * If your user has a font *of the same name* as your font installed on > their system, you can't be 100% confident that it's the *same* font you > have. Again: Font names are legally protected. But what if you > have version 15.0 of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont on your system, but > your user only has version 1.0 of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont? Who > *knows* what tweaks RandomFontFoundry may have made to WhateverFont in > between those two version numbers? > * Can you be 100% confident that version 15.0 > of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont *for Mac* is going to render *exactly > the same* as version 15.0 of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont *for Windows* > or *for Linux*? No. You cannot. Different type rendering engines on > different OSes *ensure* that rendering compatibility will be problematic at > best. > * Assuming your user has exactly the same version of exactly the same font > on exactly the same OS you do, you can't be 100% confident that your user > has installed the font metrics data (kerning, sidebearings, etc)—which > means you have no idea if the damn thing will look the same on your user's > system as on your system. > If you want to *ensure* that some piece of text looks *exactly the same* > cross-platform, the only way to get there is to format the text the way you > want it on one platform, take a screenshot, and use that graphic. But even > then, can you be 100% confident that your user *hasn't* tweaked some > setting on their system which messes with graphics..? > > The "take a screenshot" solution is not well-suited for any use-case > involving text which varies from time to time, and largely impractical for > any use-case involving text which is input by the user. In principle, it > should be possible to create a library of glyph-images of all glyphs in a > font, and import those glyph-images as necessary—no, mass quantities of > "set the imageSource of char X to $GlyphImage" commands ain't gonna fly, > cuz letterspacing will look crappy—but that "solution" is tantamount to > building your own, redundant, set of text-handling routines. Yuck! > If "take a screenshot" doesn't work for you, I suspect the next-best route > to achieving Absolute Cross-Platform Font Fidelity may be this: > 1) Open up your font in your font-editing utility of choice > (Fontographer, Glyphs, FontLab, whatever) > 2) Export your font N times, once for each of the *other* OSes you need > font compatibility with—WhateverFontMac, WhateverFontWindows, > WhateverFontLinux, etc > 3) Open up your stack within each of the OSes you're working with, always > using the appropriate OS-specific version of your font, and see how > different your stack looks on the other OSes > 4) Tweak the font metrics on the other-OS versions of your font until your > stack looks the same on all OSes > 5) When it's time to distribute your stack, be sure to bundle *all* the > hand-tuned OS-versions of your font with your stack > This procedure is, of course, a royal pain in the arse. Hellacious rat's > nest of mismatches, yada yada yada. But regardless of how painful it is? If > you need absolute visual fidelity cross-platform, *and* total flexibility > in the *content* of text, this procedure may be your least-bad option. > As a perhaps-preferable option: > 1) Open up your stack on each of the OSes you're striving for font > compatibility on > 2) Tweak the appearance-relevant text properties (textFont, textHeight, > textShift, etc) on each OS until you get an acceptable approximation of > identical appearance > 3) Make note of the values of all these text properties for each OS > 4) Assuming you have however-many fonts specified by fontName, be sure you > bundle all those fonts with your stack when you distribute it > 5) Include in your stack's preOpenStack handler a switch which > includes "case = WhateverOS" for each OS you want font compatibility for > 6) Within each OS's "case", set all the appearance-relevant text > properties for that OS > This procedure is not going to achieve anywhere near the degree of > cross-platform font fidelity as the "roll your own" solution above. On the > plus side, it's *significantly* less nitpicky/picayune/painful. You puts in > your money, and you takes your chances... > > "Bewitched" + "Charlie's Angels" - Charlie = "At Arm's Length" Read the > webcomic at [ http://www.atarmslength.net ]! If you like "At Arm's > Length", support it at [ http://www.patreon.com/DarkwingDude ]. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Mon Sep 5 16:54:31 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2022 16:54:31 -0400 Subject: Cross-platform font handling, and why you don't want to do it In-Reply-To: References: <367339530.2317548.1662361316808.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <367339530.2317548.1662361316808@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Other tools that we use have implemented CSS to manage this, but that does not make it easier. fonts have been a menace since we first had x-platform dev tools and meaningful WYSIWYG rendering (Win 95?). at the time, dpi differences made the issue impossible to resolve for smaller fonts, especially. the mechanisms for handling those issues have changed, but it has not gotten better. On Mon, Sep 5, 2022 at 12:07 PM Tom Glod via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > It seems like you have an approach that can work well, despite being more > work. > Mainly shipping the fonts, which cancels out most of the issues, but > requires handling each case. > > I don't know if any multi-platform dev tool deals with fonts without any > extra hoops. > If I recall correctly, flutter did OK, but not perfectly on the 2 mobile > platforms, but I've not tested the desktops, which I am guessing will be > worse. > > Hopefully your wrap up can help people to avoid trying to stick ..... the > thing in the thing. > Good luck to us all. > > > On Mon, Sep 5, 2022 at 3:03 AM Quentin Long via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > Cross-platform font compatibility is a hellacious rat's nest of > > mismatches. It may or may not be worse than handling time (Daylight > Savings > > Time? leap years? leap *seconds*? etc, ad nauseum), but it's plenty bad > > enough on its own merits, or lack thereof. > > * You can't be 100% confident that your user will have the same font(s) > > you do installed on their system. > > * If your user has a font *of the same name* as your font installed on > > their system, you can't be 100% confident that *their* font came from the > > same font foundry as *your* font. Yes, font names are legally protected, > > but... Helvetica, anyone? > > * If your user has a font *of the same name* as your font installed on > > their system, you can't be 100% confident that it's the *same* font you > > have. Again: Font names are legally protected. But what if you > > have version 15.0 of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont on your system, but > > your user only has version 1.0 of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont? Who > > *knows* what tweaks RandomFontFoundry may have made to WhateverFont in > > between those two version numbers? > > * Can you be 100% confident that version 15.0 > > of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont *for Mac* is going to render *exactly > > the same* as version 15.0 of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont *for > Windows* > > or *for Linux*? No. You cannot. Different type rendering engines on > > different OSes *ensure* that rendering compatibility will be problematic > at > > best. > > * Assuming your user has exactly the same version of exactly the same > font > > on exactly the same OS you do, you can't be 100% confident that your user > > has installed the font metrics data (kerning, sidebearings, etc)—which > > means you have no idea if the damn thing will look the same on your > user's > > system as on your system. > > If you want to *ensure* that some piece of text looks *exactly the same* > > cross-platform, the only way to get there is to format the text the way > you > > want it on one platform, take a screenshot, and use that graphic. But > even > > then, can you be 100% confident that your user *hasn't* tweaked some > > setting on their system which messes with graphics..? > > > > The "take a screenshot" solution is not well-suited for any use-case > > involving text which varies from time to time, and largely impractical > for > > any use-case involving text which is input by the user. In principle, it > > should be possible to create a library of glyph-images of all glyphs in a > > font, and import those glyph-images as necessary—no, mass quantities of > > "set the imageSource of char X to $GlyphImage" commands ain't gonna fly, > > cuz letterspacing will look crappy—but that "solution" is tantamount to > > building your own, redundant, set of text-handling routines. Yuck! > > If "take a screenshot" doesn't work for you, I suspect the next-best > route > > to achieving Absolute Cross-Platform Font Fidelity may be this: > > 1) Open up your font in your font-editing utility of choice > > (Fontographer, Glyphs, FontLab, whatever) > > 2) Export your font N times, once for each of the *other* OSes you need > > font compatibility with—WhateverFontMac, WhateverFontWindows, > > WhateverFontLinux, etc > > 3) Open up your stack within each of the OSes you're working with, always > > using the appropriate OS-specific version of your font, and see how > > different your stack looks on the other OSes > > 4) Tweak the font metrics on the other-OS versions of your font until > your > > stack looks the same on all OSes > > 5) When it's time to distribute your stack, be sure to bundle *all* the > > hand-tuned OS-versions of your font with your stack > > This procedure is, of course, a royal pain in the arse. Hellacious rat's > > nest of mismatches, yada yada yada. But regardless of how painful it is? > If > > you need absolute visual fidelity cross-platform, *and* total flexibility > > in the *content* of text, this procedure may be your least-bad option. > > As a perhaps-preferable option: > > 1) Open up your stack on each of the OSes you're striving for font > > compatibility on > > 2) Tweak the appearance-relevant text properties (textFont, textHeight, > > textShift, etc) on each OS until you get an acceptable approximation of > > identical appearance > > 3) Make note of the values of all these text properties for each OS > > 4) Assuming you have however-many fonts specified by fontName, be sure > you > > bundle all those fonts with your stack when you distribute it > > 5) Include in your stack's preOpenStack handler a switch which > > includes "case = WhateverOS" for each OS you want font compatibility for > > 6) Within each OS's "case", set all the appearance-relevant text > > properties for that OS > > This procedure is not going to achieve anywhere near the degree of > > cross-platform font fidelity as the "roll your own" solution above. On > the > > plus side, it's *significantly* less nitpicky/picayune/painful. You puts > in > > your money, and you takes your chances... > > > > "Bewitched" + "Charlie's Angels" - Charlie = "At Arm's Length" Read the > > webcomic at [ http://www.atarmslength.net ]! If you like "At Arm's > > Length", support it at [ http://www.patreon.com/DarkwingDude ]. > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Mon Sep 5 19:22:22 2022 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2022 19:22:22 -0400 Subject: Cross-platform font handling, and why you don't want to do it In-Reply-To: <367339530.2317548.1662361316808@mail.yahoo.com> References: <367339530.2317548.1662361316808.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <367339530.2317548.1662361316808@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002b01d8c17e$5cd850b0$1688f210$@net> Solutions before I tell my tales of woe. Measuretext is a great high speed tool using a field's properties to calculate the width in pixels that the string will occupy when rendered. This can solve many kerning issues. The font size can be adjusted as needed to fit the text into a field without clipping. Measuretext is much faster than doing the measuring directly on the field(formattedWidth) if it has many lines. Baseline and vertical position/size issues are different problems. Mac and Windows use their own font metrics tables for ascent and decent. Android uses Windows table. I don't know but I would assume that iOS uses the Mac(HHead) version. Don't know what Linux uses. Doing height calculations and adjusting the top/bottom field margins gets you there. OR If you have an open source font and font editor, one can diddle the ascent/decent values for Windows and HHead(Mac). This can get you 99%+ identical rendering on Win/Mac. A lot of work for sure. Browsers are another challenge I've seen the need for media calls for specific browsers in the css to make sure text will fit as intended. If you just check Chrome you get 65% of the market. Add Safari you get to 83%. Edge and FireFox get you to 90%. So to get to 90% you need to test 4 browsers, some on at least 5 platforms. I've had headaches and sketchy workarounds for font issues since I got into composition in 1994 with win 3.1, ATM and TT/Type 1 fonts. I had the version problem with I believe Helvetica. Customer used the Adobe v1 version we had the latest vX version. We used their version of the font day one but then bought the entire Adobe font library. Our new users went to the library and suddenly one composer's text for this product flowed differently. WHAT??? After looking at everything else we discovered the version number was different(it was the file date that finally clued us in). The 2 versions(both from Adobe) did indeed kern slightly different. We used InDesign and Word. One displayed the font family name and the other displayed the true font name on their respective font choosers. One would be "Bodini Heavy" the other was "Bodini 55". Confusing for sure. Word will silently substitute a font for a close match on your system if you don’t have the exact font called for. If that person saves the file then when opened on a system with the proper font... the proper font is displayed on the screen but when creating a PDF the wrong font is used. The difference between screen and printed rendering might have been only on type 1 fonts? Don’t remember. The composer and I both try to forget that 10 hours we will never get back trying to figure that one out. Roman Fonts with identical names is a constant issue. Have a TT font and a font with the same name in another format(Type 1/OpenType) on your system(even if they are from the same foundry) and see how that works out. Not good... Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Quentin Long via use-livecode Sent: Monday, September 05, 2022 3:02 AM To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Cc: Quentin Long Subject: Cross-platform font handling, and why you don't want to do it Cross-platform font compatibility is a hellacious rat's nest of mismatches. It may or may not be worse than handling time (Daylight Savings Time? leap years? leap *seconds*? etc, ad nauseum), but it's plenty bad enough on its own merits, or lack thereof. * You can't be 100% confident that your user will have the same font(s) you do installed on their system. * If your user has a font *of the same name* as your font installed on their system, you can't be 100% confident that *their* font came from the same font foundry as *your* font. Yes, font names are legally protected, but... Helvetica, anyone? * If your user has a font *of the same name* as your font installed on their system, you can't be 100% confident that it's the *same* font you have. Again: Font names are legally protected. But what if you have version 15.0 of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont on your system, but your user only has version 1.0 of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont? Who *knows* what tweaks RandomFontFoundry may have made to WhateverFont in between those two version numbers? * Can you be 100% confident that version 15.0 of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont *for Mac* is going to render *exactly the same* as version 15.0 of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont *for Windows* or *for Linux*? No. You cannot. Different type rendering engines on different OSes *ensure* that rendering compatibility will be problematic at best. * Assuming your user has exactly the same version of exactly the same font on exactly the same OS you do, you can't be 100% confident that your user has installed the font metrics data (kerning, sidebearings, etc)—which means you have no idea if the damn thing will look the same on your user's system as on your system. If you want to *ensure* that some piece of text looks *exactly the same* cross-platform, the only way to get there is to format the text the way you want it on one platform, take a screenshot, and use that graphic. But even then, can you be 100% confident that your user *hasn't* tweaked some setting on their system which messes with graphics..? The "take a screenshot" solution is not well-suited for any use-case involving text which varies from time to time, and largely impractical for any use-case involving text which is input by the user. In principle, it should be possible to create a library of glyph-images of all glyphs in a font, and import those glyph-images as necessary—no, mass quantities of "set the imageSource of char X to $GlyphImage" commands ain't gonna fly, cuz letterspacing will look crappy—but that "solution" is tantamount to building your own, redundant, set of text-handling routines. Yuck! If "take a screenshot" doesn't work for you, I suspect the next-best route to achieving Absolute Cross-Platform Font Fidelity may be this: 1) Open up your font in your font-editing utility of choice (Fontographer, Glyphs, FontLab, whatever) 2) Export your font N times, once for each of the *other* OSes you need font compatibility with—WhateverFontMac, WhateverFontWindows, WhateverFontLinux, etc 3) Open up your stack within each of the OSes you're working with, always using the appropriate OS-specific version of your font, and see how different your stack looks on the other OSes 4) Tweak the font metrics on the other-OS versions of your font until your stack looks the same on all OSes 5) When it's time to distribute your stack, be sure to bundle *all* the hand-tuned OS-versions of your font with your stack This procedure is, of course, a royal pain in the arse. Hellacious rat's nest of mismatches, yada yada yada. But regardless of how painful it is? If you need absolute visual fidelity cross-platform, *and* total flexibility in the *content* of text, this procedure may be your least-bad option. As a perhaps-preferable option: 1) Open up your stack on each of the OSes you're striving for font compatibility on 2) Tweak the appearance-relevant text properties (textFont, textHeight, textShift, etc) on each OS until you get an acceptable approximation of identical appearance 3) Make note of the values of all these text properties for each OS 4) Assuming you have however-many fonts specified by fontName, be sure you bundle all those fonts with your stack when you distribute it 5) Include in your stack's preOpenStack handler a switch which includes "case = WhateverOS" for each OS you want font compatibility for 6) Within each OS's "case", set all the appearance-relevant text properties for that OS This procedure is not going to achieve anywhere near the degree of cross-platform font fidelity as the "roll your own" solution above. On the plus side, it's *significantly* less nitpicky/picayune/painful. You puts in your money, and you takes your chances... "Bewitched" + "Charlie's Angels" - Charlie = "At Arm's Length" Read the webcomic at [ http://www.atarmslength.net ]! If you like "At Arm's Length", support it at [ http://www.patreon.com/DarkwingDude ]. _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon Sep 5 20:02:31 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 00:02:31 +0000 Subject: Cross-platform font handling, and why you don't want to do it In-Reply-To: <002b01d8c17e$5cd850b0$1688f210$@net> References: <367339530.2317548.1662361316808.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <367339530.2317548.1662361316808@mail.yahoo.com> <002b01d8c17e$5cd850b0$1688f210$@net> Message-ID: <018C39CA-3EC2-493B-9AF5-B001771684A8@iotecdigital.com> Well, I am not aiming for *exact* visual match. What I WOULD expect is that if Livecode thinks the name of a font on the MacOS is “Aclonica Regular” then it would think the same thing on a Windows system. I’m talking about an embedded font file here. That “Aclonica” without the “regular” works on both platforms raises an eyebrow. Is LC for MacOS getting it wrong, or is Windows? Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 5, 2022, at 16:23, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote: > > Solutions before I tell my tales of woe. > > Measuretext is a great high speed tool using a field's properties to calculate the width in pixels that the string will occupy when rendered. This can solve many kerning issues. The font size can be adjusted as needed to fit the text into a field without clipping. > Measuretext is much faster than doing the measuring directly on the field(formattedWidth) if it has many lines. > > Baseline and vertical position/size issues are different problems. Mac and Windows use their own font metrics tables for ascent and decent. Android uses Windows table. I don't know but I would assume that iOS uses the Mac(HHead) version. Don't know what Linux uses. > Doing height calculations and adjusting the top/bottom field margins gets you there. > OR > If you have an open source font and font editor, one can diddle the ascent/decent values for Windows and HHead(Mac). This can get you 99%+ identical rendering on Win/Mac. A lot of work for sure. > > Browsers are another challenge I've seen the need for media calls for specific browsers in the css to make sure text will fit as intended. If you just check Chrome you get 65% of the market. Add Safari you get to 83%. Edge and FireFox get you to 90%. So to get to 90% you need to test 4 browsers, some on at least 5 platforms. > > > > I've had headaches and sketchy workarounds for font issues since I got into composition in 1994 with win 3.1, ATM and TT/Type 1 fonts. > > I had the version problem with I believe Helvetica. Customer used the Adobe v1 version we had the latest vX version. We used their version of the font day one but then bought the entire Adobe font library. Our new users went to the library and suddenly one composer's text for this product flowed differently. WHAT??? After looking at everything else we discovered the version number was different(it was the file date that finally clued us in). The 2 versions(both from Adobe) did indeed kern slightly different. > > We used InDesign and Word. One displayed the font family name and the other displayed the true font name on their respective font choosers. One would be "Bodini Heavy" the other was "Bodini 55". Confusing for sure. > > Word will silently substitute a font for a close match on your system if you don’t have the exact font called for. If that person saves the file then when opened on a system with the proper font... the proper font is displayed on the screen but when creating a PDF the wrong font is used. The difference between screen and printed rendering might have been only on type 1 fonts? Don’t remember. The composer and I both try to forget that 10 hours we will never get back trying to figure that one out. > > Roman Fonts with identical names is a constant issue. > > Have a TT font and a font with the same name in another format(Type 1/OpenType) on your system(even if they are from the same foundry) and see how that works out. Not good... > > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Quentin Long via use-livecode > Sent: Monday, September 05, 2022 3:02 AM > To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Cc: Quentin Long > Subject: Cross-platform font handling, and why you don't want to do it > > Cross-platform font compatibility is a hellacious rat's nest of mismatches. It may or may not be worse than handling time (Daylight Savings Time? leap years? leap *seconds*? etc, ad nauseum), but it's plenty bad enough on its own merits, or lack thereof. > * You can't be 100% confident that your user will have the same font(s) you do installed on their system. > * If your user has a font *of the same name* as your font installed on their system, you can't be 100% confident that *their* font came from the same font foundry as *your* font. Yes, font names are legally protected, but... Helvetica, anyone? > * If your user has a font *of the same name* as your font installed on their system, you can't be 100% confident that it's the *same* font you have. Again: Font names are legally protected. But what if you have version 15.0 of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont on your system, but your user only has version 1.0 of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont? Who *knows* what tweaks RandomFontFoundry may have made to WhateverFont in between those two version numbers? > * Can you be 100% confident that version 15.0 of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont *for Mac* is going to render *exactly the same* as version 15.0 of RandomFontFoundry's WhateverFont *for Windows* or *for Linux*? No. You cannot. Different type rendering engines on different OSes *ensure* that rendering compatibility will be problematic at best. > * Assuming your user has exactly the same version of exactly the same font on exactly the same OS you do, you can't be 100% confident that your user has installed the font metrics data (kerning, sidebearings, etc)—which means you have no idea if the damn thing will look the same on your user's system as on your system. > If you want to *ensure* that some piece of text looks *exactly the same* cross-platform, the only way to get there is to format the text the way you want it on one platform, take a screenshot, and use that graphic. But even then, can you be 100% confident that your user *hasn't* tweaked some setting on their system which messes with graphics..? > > The "take a screenshot" solution is not well-suited for any use-case involving text which varies from time to time, and largely impractical for any use-case involving text which is input by the user. In principle, it should be possible to create a library of glyph-images of all glyphs in a font, and import those glyph-images as necessary—no, mass quantities of "set the imageSource of char X to $GlyphImage" commands ain't gonna fly, cuz letterspacing will look crappy—but that "solution" is tantamount to building your own, redundant, set of text-handling routines. Yuck! > If "take a screenshot" doesn't work for you, I suspect the next-best route to achieving Absolute Cross-Platform Font Fidelity may be this: > 1) Open up your font in your font-editing utility of choice (Fontographer, Glyphs, FontLab, whatever) > 2) Export your font N times, once for each of the *other* OSes you need font compatibility with—WhateverFontMac, WhateverFontWindows, WhateverFontLinux, etc > 3) Open up your stack within each of the OSes you're working with, always using the appropriate OS-specific version of your font, and see how different your stack looks on the other OSes > 4) Tweak the font metrics on the other-OS versions of your font until your stack looks the same on all OSes > 5) When it's time to distribute your stack, be sure to bundle *all* the hand-tuned OS-versions of your font with your stack This procedure is, of course, a royal pain in the arse. Hellacious rat's nest of mismatches, yada yada yada. But regardless of how painful it is? If you need absolute visual fidelity cross-platform, *and* total flexibility in the *content* of text, this procedure may be your least-bad option. > As a perhaps-preferable option: > 1) Open up your stack on each of the OSes you're striving for font compatibility on > 2) Tweak the appearance-relevant text properties (textFont, textHeight, textShift, etc) on each OS until you get an acceptable approximation of identical appearance > 3) Make note of the values of all these text properties for each OS > 4) Assuming you have however-many fonts specified by fontName, be sure you bundle all those fonts with your stack when you distribute it > 5) Include in your stack's preOpenStack handler a switch which includes "case = WhateverOS" for each OS you want font compatibility for > 6) Within each OS's "case", set all the appearance-relevant text properties for that OS This procedure is not going to achieve anywhere near the degree of cross-platform font fidelity as the "roll your own" solution above. On the plus side, it's *significantly* less nitpicky/picayune/painful. You puts in your money, and you takes your chances... > > "Bewitched" + "Charlie's Angels" - Charlie = "At Arm's Length" Read the webcomic at [ http://www.atarmslength.net ]! If you like "At Arm's Length", support it at [ http://www.patreon.com/DarkwingDude ]. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Mon Sep 5 21:27:48 2022 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 11:27:48 +1000 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance Message-ID: <32484F73-F203-4BA0-A748-944EF6BF8E42@optusnet.com.au> I agree Quentin, trying to make text appear exactly the same on all platforms is a fools errand. That however is not the main point of the exercise, at least for me. When designing an apps interface, it would be good to know that (at least static) text items will (probably) appear in the same font style and height and the text is all visible: no pixels obscured at top or bottom or left or right, no unintended word-wrapping, and not too close to other objects such as a field border. Including one’s own fonts such as Google fonts, which are probably not in the user’s default system setup — on a desktop at least, and setting the baseline as in a previous post, would seem to be a useful addition to the production process (and may even achieve precise equality between Monterey and Windows 10 if my early experiments hold true! ). But the most important parameter is of course the text length. The usual mantra is to add about 10% extra padding to the field length. I intend to set up a database for a range of fonts and platforms to check just what extra length is really needed (is that figure of 15% for Linux I quoted actually correct, it sounds unbelievable). I have access to Mac Monterey, Mac High Sierra, and Windows 10 and Ubuntu via Parallels. Once done I will publish the database. Hopefully someone could then add data for Window 11 for example ( and iOS and Android) Finally a couple of other comments about fonts on Monterey. I mentioned Times on the Mac being weirdly small. Turns out Times is no longer included in Monterey although it will recognise a scripted setting to Times ; if you set text to 13pt Times it seems the system substitutes Times New Roman 11pt (which looks like 9pt in any other font). And if you set the text to the (Default) font then changes to the textSize of the field have no visible affect, what you get is the default system font at its default size (SF Pro 12pt) Neville From gcanyon at gmail.com Mon Sep 5 22:11:11 2022 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2022 19:11:11 -0700 Subject: Stylistic question. In-Reply-To: <990BFD28-D609-4498-9DF0-A80E605861C4@iotecdigital.com> References: <1818ceeb0b0.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <990BFD28-D609-4498-9DF0-A80E605861C4@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 10:32 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I will however ask for just one enhancement: If I am filtering the list and have an item or items selected, and then I clear the filter, it also clears the selection. It would be great if the selection could be maintained or restored. I checked, and there is code that is supposed to do exactly this. I checked, and at least in the simple scenarios I tried, it works as advertised. Do you have a recipe to make it not work? Note: I think I added this fairly recently, so you probably need the most recent version (or nearly so) for this to work. gc From sean at pidigital.co.uk Tue Sep 6 04:52:25 2022 From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Pi Digital) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 09:52:25 +0100 Subject: Stylistic question. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Arriving late to the conversation. I never put code into buttons other that enough to cover messages. These will only have enough code in them to pass on the rest of the message. Eg on mouseUp pBtn btn_nameOfButtonMUp pBtn end mouseUp on mouseRelease btn_nameOfBtnMRel end mouseRelease Then I’d have the main code in either the card or stack script. Cards and stacks are a lot harder to delete than an object. Too many times I’ve seen objects get deleted accidentally and loose a heap of code. For what it’s worth, my preference is for If/Then/Else rather than Switch/Case/Default. But sometimes it is better, not to mention faster. But even so, for something like an option button I would use on menuPick pOption btn_btnNameMenuP pOption end menuPick Rather than put the switch code into the button. Rebuilding those few lines of code in a lost/deleted button is far easier than trying to remember all of the other operations it could have had in it. I hope you are all well, btw :) Sean Cole Pi Digital From heather at livecode.com Tue Sep 6 05:53:39 2022 From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 10:53:39 +0100 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: <32484F73-F203-4BA0-A748-944EF6BF8E42@optusnet.com.au> References: <32484F73-F203-4BA0-A748-944EF6BF8E42@optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: Neville, That sounds like an incredibly useful exercise. I wonder... could you be persuaded to make that a blog post about fonts across platforms I could put on our website? If yes, contact me offlist :) Best Regards, Heather Heather Laine Customer Services Manager LiveCode Ltd www.livecode.com > On 6 Sep 2022, at 02:27, Neville Smythe via use-livecode wrote: > > I agree Quentin, trying to make text appear exactly the same on all platforms is a fools errand. > > That however is not the main point of the exercise, at least for me. When designing an apps interface, it would be good to know that (at least static) text items will (probably) appear in the same font style and height and the text is all visible: no pixels obscured at top or bottom or left or right, no unintended word-wrapping, and not too close to other objects such as a field border. > > Including one’s own fonts such as Google fonts, which are probably not in the user’s default system setup — on a desktop at least, and setting the baseline as in a previous post, would seem to be a useful addition to the production process (and may even achieve precise equality between Monterey and Windows 10 if my early experiments hold true! ). > > But the most important parameter is of course the text length. The usual mantra is to add about 10% extra padding to the field length. I intend to set up a database for a range of fonts and platforms to check just what extra length is really needed (is that figure of 15% for Linux I quoted actually correct, it sounds unbelievable). I have access to Mac Monterey, Mac High Sierra, and Windows 10 and Ubuntu via Parallels. Once done I will publish the database. Hopefully someone could then add data for Window 11 for example ( and iOS and Android) > > Finally a couple of other comments about fonts on Monterey. I mentioned Times on the Mac being weirdly small. Turns out Times is no longer included in Monterey although it will recognise a scripted setting to Times ; if you set text to 13pt Times it seems the system substitutes Times New Roman 11pt (which looks like 9pt in any other font). > > And if you set the text to the (Default) font then changes to the textSize of the field have no visible affect, what you get is the default system font at its default size (SF Pro 12pt) > > > Neville > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From gcanyon at gmail.com Tue Sep 6 10:55:22 2022 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 07:55:22 -0700 Subject: Stylistic question. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ha, I just realized that I responded to the Navigator part of the conversation without responding to the style part. When I wrote the "convert a control(s) to behaviors" code, I didn't think twice about what to apply it to or not -- I selected everything and converted it all. That was something like five or six years ago, and: Navigator, which I work on seriously, is all behavior scripts. Everything else, which is *not* serious, is zero behavior scripts. I think it needs to be a setting at the IDE level for behaviors to be a thing (for me). For the original question, I always put code in the control that's doing the work, unless it's shared. So utility routines and functions in the card, regular code in the button. From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Sep 6 11:11:54 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 15:11:54 +0000 Subject: Stylistic question. In-Reply-To: References: <1818ceeb0b0.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <990BFD28-D609-4498-9DF0-A80E605861C4@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <87FBDED9-D4FA-4280-AB55-702A7A5DBA09@iotecdigital.com> I'll have a look. Bob S On Sep 5, 2022, at 19:11 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode > wrote: On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 10:32 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: I will however ask for just one enhancement: If I am filtering the list and have an item or items selected, and then I clear the filter, it also clears the selection. It would be great if the selection could be maintained or restored. I checked, and there is code that is supposed to do exactly this. I checked, and at least in the simple scenarios I tried, it works as advertised. Do you have a recipe to make it not work? Note: I think I added this fairly recently, so you probably need the most recent version (or nearly so) for this to work. gc From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Sep 6 11:49:51 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 15:49:51 +0000 Subject: Stylistic question. In-Reply-To: <87FBDED9-D4FA-4280-AB55-702A7A5DBA09@iotecdigital.com> References: <1818ceeb0b0.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <990BFD28-D609-4498-9DF0-A80E605861C4@iotecdigital.com> <87FBDED9-D4FA-4280-AB55-702A7A5DBA09@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <6697AA2B-0FD5-46A1-86CF-381113B80A1E@iotecdigital.com> I went to Github, the latest version is 7.3 RC1 which is what I already had. Not sure where to look for the most recent version. Issue persists for me. Bob S > On Sep 6, 2022, at 08:11 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > I'll have a look. > > Bob S > > > On Sep 5, 2022, at 19:11 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode > wrote: > > On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 10:32 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I will however ask for just one enhancement: If I am filtering the list > and have an item or items selected, and then I clear the filter, it also > clears the selection. It would be great if the selection could be > maintained or restored. > > I checked, and there is code that is supposed to do exactly this. I > checked, and at least in the simple scenarios I tried, it works as > advertised. Do you have a recipe to make it not work? > > Note: I think I added this fairly recently, so you probably need the most > recent version (or nearly so) for this to work. > > gc > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Sep 6 13:13:10 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 17:13:10 +0000 Subject: Cross-platform font handling, and why you don't want to do it In-Reply-To: <018C39CA-3EC2-493B-9AF5-B001771684A8@iotecdigital.com> References: <367339530.2317548.1662361316808.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <367339530.2317548.1662361316808@mail.yahoo.com> <002b01d8c17e$5cd850b0$1688f210$@net> <018C39CA-3EC2-493B-9AF5-B001771684A8@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Sorry to drag this thread on, but it appears that using embedded fonts is worse that I first imagined. After I had set all my label fields to Acme, I repositioned them so that they were contacting the field to the right of them, and I right aligned them all so they had a consistent look. I just noticed however that when I quit Livecode, then relaunch it and open the stack, all the text of the labels appear out of alignment! If I open the Property Editor and select the Font tab, then click one of the labels in Edit mode, the text realigns correctly! As I click each label, that text also realigns. If I set a label to the default system font, this does not happen. That sucks. Big time. At this point I do not know if it is just this particular font, or if it happens to all embedded fonts, but I am fairly taken back. Bob S On Sep 5, 2022, at 17:02 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode > wrote: Well, I am not aiming for *exact* visual match. What I WOULD expect is that if Livecode thinks the name of a font on the MacOS is “Aclonica Regular” then it would think the same thing on a Windows system. I’m talking about an embedded font file here. That “Aclonica” without the “regular” works on both platforms raises an eyebrow. Is LC for MacOS getting it wrong, or is Windows? Sent from my iPhone From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Tue Sep 6 14:59:35 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 14:59:35 -0400 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: <003801d8be28$c8632660$59297320$@net> References: <816C27F1-2EFD-47F9-A507-46245A41158A@gmail.com> <69F805E3-DF6D-4403-BE3E-84CAB718344B@milby7.com> <003801d8be28$c8632660$59297320$@net> Message-ID: Ralph, got the source, somewhere? i'd like to learn from it. testing to begin...now. On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 1:32 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I took a major stab at LCB and created a new widget based on the navbar > widget. I have made 2 changes to the navbar and call it navrad. It does not > modify the stock navbar. With almost no docs it was a challenge. There were > so many unknowns I got a few giant headaches. It adds 4 new > properties(iconFill,autoRADHilite,preHilitedItem, preHilitedItemName) and 1 > new message(preHiliteChanged). I updated the documentation so the new > properties and message show in the dictionary with example(search for > "navrad" or just "rad"). > One thing I ran into was that I had to call the "autohilite" property > autoRADHilite because using any existing property causes a confilict that I > could not get around without sufficient docs. It does show in the property > inspector as "auto hilite". These changes allow 1)enlarge/center the icon > if there is no label 2)intercept a selection before it is hilited and make > a choice to hilite and send the stock hiliteChanged message (or not). Why > no label? For one social media icons don’t need labels. Why a pre message? > Someone suggested it and I thought it was a great idea. Backwards > compatible with existing navbar LCS code. The was an auto sizing to card > width request. I will look to see if I can do it without more docs(or help). > > If anyone would like to try it and find any bugs it's at ==> > https://www.dropbox.com/s/51zm4m8dip49jov/com.livecode.widget.navrad.2.0.0.lce?dl=0 > > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Tue Sep 6 15:28:51 2022 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 15:28:51 -0400 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <816C27F1-2EFD-47F9-A507-46245A41158A@gmail.com> <69F805E3-DF6D-4403-BE3E-84CAB718344B@milby7.com> <003801d8be28$c8632660$59297320$@net> Message-ID: <005a01d8c226$e8596c70$b90c4550$@net> Mike, For future reference the source is in the .lce file. The .lce is in zip format. Temporarily change the extension to .zip. You will see the lcb file in there. Also when you install it the source will be in the extension folder. But since I posted .lce I have put in comments starting with "RAD Change" to show where I have made changes. Here is the link to the updated source==>https://www.dropbox.com/s/bv930usovpruo5e/navrad.lcb?dl=0 Thanks for taking a look! Also I found that after I updated the docs that the docs are generated from the lcb file. I re-built the widget and boom my doc changes were destroyed. No problem I just had redo the docs for my changes in the lcb file. So many unknowns. I am trying to find a way to resize it to the card width with a user setting for height percent of card width. But the docs are so scant and confusing I feel the giant headache coming on again. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2022 3:00 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Mike Kerner Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual Ralph, got the source, somewhere? i'd like to learn from it. testing to begin...now. On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 1:32 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I took a major stab at LCB and created a new widget based on the > navbar widget. I have made 2 changes to the navbar and call it navrad. > It does not modify the stock navbar. With almost no docs it was a > challenge. There were so many unknowns I got a few giant headaches. It > adds 4 new properties(iconFill,autoRADHilite,preHilitedItem, > preHilitedItemName) and 1 new message(preHiliteChanged). I updated the > documentation so the new properties and message show in the dictionary > with example(search for "navrad" or just "rad"). > One thing I ran into was that I had to call the "autohilite" property > autoRADHilite because using any existing property causes a confilict > that I could not get around without sufficient docs. It does show in > the property inspector as "auto hilite". These changes allow > 1)enlarge/center the icon if there is no label 2)intercept a selection > before it is hilited and make a choice to hilite and send the stock > hiliteChanged message (or not). Why no label? For one social media icons don’t need labels. Why a pre message? > Someone suggested it and I thought it was a great idea. Backwards > compatible with existing navbar LCS code. The was an auto sizing to > card width request. I will look to see if I can do it without more docs(or help). > > If anyone would like to try it and find any bugs it's at ==> > https://www.dropbox.com/s/51zm4m8dip49jov/com.livecode.widget.navrad.2 > .0.0.lce?dl=0 > > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From brian at milby7.com Tue Sep 6 15:59:41 2022 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 15:59:41 -0400 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: <005a01d8c226$e8596c70$b90c4550$@net> References: <005a01d8c226$e8596c70$b90c4550$@net> Message-ID: <327C82F3-CA0F-4108-8F46-1372C69F0691@milby7.com> I think the user is going to need to code the width adjustment in the resizeStack handler. Widgets can’t change their rect on their own. It has to happen from the LCS side. Brian Milby brian at milby7.com > On Sep 6, 2022, at 3:29 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote: > > Mike, > > For future reference the source is in the .lce file. The .lce is in zip format. Temporarily change the extension to .zip. You will see the lcb file in there. Also when you install it the source will be in the extension folder. But since I posted .lce I have put in comments starting with "RAD Change" to show where I have made changes. Here is the link to the updated source==>https://www.dropbox.com/s/bv930usovpruo5e/navrad.lcb?dl=0 > > Thanks for taking a look! > > Also I found that after I updated the docs that the docs are generated from the lcb file. I re-built the widget and boom my doc changes were destroyed. No problem I just had redo the docs for my changes in the lcb file. So many unknowns. I am trying to find a way to resize it to the card width with a user setting for height percent of card width. But the docs are so scant and confusing I feel the giant headache coming on again. > > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode > Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2022 3:00 PM > To: How to use LiveCode > Cc: Mike Kerner > Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual > > Ralph, > got the source, somewhere? i'd like to learn from it. > testing to begin...now. > >> On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 1:32 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >> I took a major stab at LCB and created a new widget based on the >> navbar widget. I have made 2 changes to the navbar and call it navrad. >> It does not modify the stock navbar. With almost no docs it was a >> challenge. There were so many unknowns I got a few giant headaches. It >> adds 4 new properties(iconFill,autoRADHilite,preHilitedItem, >> preHilitedItemName) and 1 new message(preHiliteChanged). I updated the >> documentation so the new properties and message show in the dictionary >> with example(search for "navrad" or just "rad"). >> One thing I ran into was that I had to call the "autohilite" property >> autoRADHilite because using any existing property causes a confilict >> that I could not get around without sufficient docs. It does show in >> the property inspector as "auto hilite". These changes allow >> 1)enlarge/center the icon if there is no label 2)intercept a selection >> before it is hilited and make a choice to hilite and send the stock >> hiliteChanged message (or not). Why no label? For one social media icons don’t need labels. Why a pre message? >> Someone suggested it and I thought it was a great idea. Backwards >> compatible with existing navbar LCS code. The was an auto sizing to >> card width request. I will look to see if I can do it without more docs(or help). >> >> If anyone would like to try it and find any bugs it's at ==> >> https://www.dropbox.com/s/51zm4m8dip49jov/com.livecode.widget.navrad.2 >> .0.0.lce?dl=0 >> >> >> Ralph DiMola >> IT Director >> Evergreen Information Services >> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Sep 6 16:19:41 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 20:19:41 +0000 Subject: Cross-platform font handling, and why you don't want to do it In-Reply-To: References: <367339530.2317548.1662361316808.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <367339530.2317548.1662361316808@mail.yahoo.com> <002b01d8c17e$5cd850b0$1688f210$@net> <018C39CA-3EC2-493B-9AF5-B001771684A8@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <943D02FC-205D-49BB-A5D1-8B0611945566@iotecdigital.com> I did some testing. It only happens when loading font files for the first time in a Livecode session from a script on MacOS. Once the font files are loaded, I can close and reopen the stack and the appearance is correct. It does NOT happen on Windows, nor does it happen with any fonts that are installed in the system. But it gets worse. The fonts do not get included in a MacOS standalone, even when I add them to the Copy Files section of the Standalone Application Settings of both the splash stack, and the main stack. Custom Font Support needs a real overhaul. I have already submitted an issue with support. Bob S On Sep 6, 2022, at 10:13 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode > wrote: Sorry to drag this thread on, but it appears that using embedded fonts is worse that I first imagined. After I had set all my label fields to Acme, I repositioned them so that they were contacting the field to the right of them, and I right aligned them all so they had a consistent look. I just noticed however that when I quit Livecode, then relaunch it and open the stack, all the text of the labels appear out of alignment! If I open the Property Editor and select the Font tab, then click one of the labels in Edit mode, the text realigns correctly! As I click each label, that text also realigns. If I set a label to the default system font, this does not happen. That sucks. Big time. At this point I do not know if it is just this particular font, or if it happens to all embedded fonts, but I am fairly taken back. Bob S From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Tue Sep 6 16:19:26 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 16:19:26 -0400 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: <327C82F3-CA0F-4108-8F46-1372C69F0691@milby7.com> References: <005a01d8c226$e8596c70$b90c4550$@net> <327C82F3-CA0F-4108-8F46-1372C69F0691@milby7.com> Message-ID: by the way, isn't it crazy how much overhead is required with lcb widgets? there is so...much...stuff you have to put on top just to get to the heart of the thing. and i'm never going to like the way lc embeds the comments in the source of anything. or the way they spell "favourites", or pronounce "Aluminum". Do you see an extra "i" in there? No? It's invisible, that's why. On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:00 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I think the user is going to need to code the width adjustment in the > resizeStack handler. Widgets can’t change their rect on their own. It has > to happen from the LCS side. > > Brian Milby > brian at milby7.com > > > On Sep 6, 2022, at 3:29 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > Mike, > > > > For future reference the source is in the .lce file. The .lce is in zip > format. Temporarily change the extension to .zip. You will see the lcb file > in there. Also when you install it the source will be in the extension > folder. But since I posted .lce I have put in comments starting with "RAD > Change" to show where I have made changes. Here is the link to the updated > source==>https://www.dropbox.com/s/bv930usovpruo5e/navrad.lcb?dl=0 > > > > Thanks for taking a look! > > > > Also I found that after I updated the docs that the docs are generated > from the lcb file. I re-built the widget and boom my doc changes were > destroyed. No problem I just had redo the docs for my changes in the lcb > file. So many unknowns. I am trying to find a way to resize it to the card > width with a user setting for height percent of card width. But the docs > are so scant and confusing I feel the giant headache coming on again. > > > > > > Ralph DiMola > > IT Director > > Evergreen Information Services > > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On > Behalf Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode > > Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2022 3:00 PM > > To: How to use LiveCode > > Cc: Mike Kerner > > Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual > > > > Ralph, > > got the source, somewhere? i'd like to learn from it. > > testing to begin...now. > > > >> On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 1:32 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> > >> I took a major stab at LCB and created a new widget based on the > >> navbar widget. I have made 2 changes to the navbar and call it navrad. > >> It does not modify the stock navbar. With almost no docs it was a > >> challenge. There were so many unknowns I got a few giant headaches. It > >> adds 4 new properties(iconFill,autoRADHilite,preHilitedItem, > >> preHilitedItemName) and 1 new message(preHiliteChanged). I updated the > >> documentation so the new properties and message show in the dictionary > >> with example(search for "navrad" or just "rad"). > >> One thing I ran into was that I had to call the "autohilite" property > >> autoRADHilite because using any existing property causes a confilict > >> that I could not get around without sufficient docs. It does show in > >> the property inspector as "auto hilite". These changes allow > >> 1)enlarge/center the icon if there is no label 2)intercept a selection > >> before it is hilited and make a choice to hilite and send the stock > >> hiliteChanged message (or not). Why no label? For one social media > icons don’t need labels. Why a pre message? > >> Someone suggested it and I thought it was a great idea. Backwards > >> compatible with existing navbar LCS code. The was an auto sizing to > >> card width request. I will look to see if I can do it without more > docs(or help). > >> > >> If anyone would like to try it and find any bugs it's at ==> > >> https://www.dropbox.com/s/51zm4m8dip49jov/com.livecode.widget.navrad.2 > >> .0.0.lce?dl=0 > >> > >> > >> Ralph DiMola > >> IT Director > >> Evergreen Information Services > >> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second > day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From ahsoftware at sonic.net Tue Sep 6 16:38:40 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 13:38:40 -0700 Subject: alumin(i)um In-Reply-To: References: <005a01d8c226$e8596c70$b90c4550$@net> <327C82F3-CA0F-4108-8F46-1372C69F0691@milby7.com> Message-ID: <4553a5e4-dcc6-ff73-93f9-78893e040f8f@sonic.net> On 9/6/22 13:19, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > or the way they spell "favourites", or pronounce "Aluminum". Do you see an > extra "i" in there? No? It's invisible, that's why. Yeah. About that. The "aluminium" version actually preceded "aluminum" by several years, so if anything the U.S. version is actually the weird one. There are very few other elements that veer from the standard "ium" suffix into just "um": molybdenum, lanthanum,, tantalum, platinum, and all of those are transition metals. https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/aluminum-vs-aluminium -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Sep 6 16:53:33 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 20:53:33 +0000 Subject: alumin(i)um In-Reply-To: <4553a5e4-dcc6-ff73-93f9-78893e040f8f@sonic.net> References: <005a01d8c226$e8596c70$b90c4550$@net> <327C82F3-CA0F-4108-8F46-1372C69F0691@milby7.com> <4553a5e4-dcc6-ff73-93f9-78893e040f8f@sonic.net> Message-ID: Excerpt from WordOrigins.org: In 1808, British chemist Humphry Davy postulated the existence of a metallic form of alumina ore, which he dubbed alumium. Davy later changed the name to aluminum. He writes in his 1812 Elements of Chemical Philosophy: "As yet Aluminum has not been obtained in a perfectly free state." Yet that same year, other British chemists settled on the name aluminium, the ending of which they thought was more consistent with the other elements. So the theoretical substance was dubbed Aluminum first, but other scientists decided to call it Aluminium, even though no one knew if it existed or could exist yet. Bob S > On Sep 6, 2022, at 13:38 , Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > > On 9/6/22 13:19, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > >> or the way they spell "favourites", or pronounce "Aluminum". Do you see an >> extra "i" in there? No? It's invisible, that's why. > > Yeah. About that. > The "aluminium" version actually preceded "aluminum" by several years, so if anything the U.S. version is actually the weird one. There are very few other elements that veer from the standard "ium" suffix into just "um": molybdenum, lanthanum,, tantalum, platinum, and all of those are transition metals. > > https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/aluminum-vs-aluminium > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Sep 6 16:58:13 2022 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 23:58:13 +0300 Subject: alumin(i)um In-Reply-To: References: <005a01d8c226$e8596c70$b90c4550$@net> <327C82F3-CA0F-4108-8F46-1372C69F0691@milby7.com> <4553a5e4-dcc6-ff73-93f9-78893e040f8f@sonic.net> Message-ID: Well, in Scots it's "alumeenium", which just sounds like a Scot suffered from bad spelling. On Tue, 6 Sept 2022, 23:54 Bob Sneidar via use-livecode, < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Excerpt from WordOrigins.org: > > In 1808, British chemist Humphry Davy postulated the existence of a > metallic form of alumina ore, which he dubbed alumium. > > Davy later changed the name to aluminum. He writes in his 1812 Elements of > Chemical Philosophy: "As yet Aluminum has not been obtained in a perfectly > free state." > > Yet that same year, other British chemists settled on the name aluminium, > the ending of which they thought was more consistent with the other > elements. > > So the theoretical substance was dubbed Aluminum first, but other > scientists decided to call it Aluminium, even though no one knew if it > existed or could exist yet. > > Bob S > > > > > On Sep 6, 2022, at 13:38 , Mark Wieder via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > On 9/6/22 13:19, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > > >> or the way they spell "favourites", or pronounce "Aluminum". Do you see > an > >> extra "i" in there? No? It's invisible, that's why. > > > > Yeah. About that. > > The "aluminium" version actually preceded "aluminum" by several years, > so if anything the U.S. version is actually the weird one. There are very > few other elements that veer from the standard "ium" suffix into just "um": > molybdenum, lanthanum,, tantalum, platinum, and all of those are transition > metals. > > > > https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/aluminum-vs-aluminium > > > > -- > > Mark Wieder > > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From harrison at all-auctions.com Tue Sep 6 17:36:32 2022 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 17:36:32 -0400 Subject: Standalone Application Error In-Reply-To: References: <367339530.2317548.1662361316808.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <367339530.2317548.1662361316808@mail.yahoo.com> <002b01d8c17e$5cd850b0$1688f210$@net> <018C39CA-3EC2-493B-9AF5-B001771684A8@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <11AECC76-E8F3-41D5-826E-6AD38E436C20@all-auctions.com> Greetings LiveCoders, I came up against this error today: There was an error while saving the standalone application Adding ad-hoc signature failed with error: (path name to app): replacing existing signature xcrun: error: invalid active developer path (/Library/Developer/CommandLineTools), missing xcrun at: /Library/Developer/CommandLineTools/usr/bin/xcrun (path name to app): the codesign_allocate helper tool cannot be found or used In subcomponent (path name to app):/Contents/MacOS/revsecurity.dylib Is this just saying I don’t have Xcode installed, or is more complex than that? The program works fine in the IDE, I just can’t build the standalone. Anyone else ever get this one? Thanks, Rick From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Tue Sep 6 18:00:05 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2022 00:00:05 +0200 Subject: Standalone Application Error In-Reply-To: <11AECC76-E8F3-41D5-826E-6AD38E436C20@all-auctions.com> References: <367339530.2317548.1662361316808.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <367339530.2317548.1662361316808@mail.yahoo.com> <002b01d8c17e$5cd850b0$1688f210$@net> <018C39CA-3EC2-493B-9AF5-B001771684A8@iotecdigital.com> <11AECC76-E8F3-41D5-826E-6AD38E436C20@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: <142F9442-6D73-488E-B418-8DC76A529E46@m-r-d.de> You need at least the xCode command line tools installed. If you have an Apple Developer account, then please see here https://developer.apple.com/download/all/?q=command%20line%20tools to see all avaiables versions of the command line tools. Please download the one that is supported by your Livecode version (see the LC release notes for xCode support). Regards, Matthias > Am 06.09.2022 um 23:36 schrieb harrison--- via use-livecode : > > Greetings LiveCoders, > > I came up against this error today: > > There was an error while saving the standalone application > Adding ad-hoc signature failed with error: > (path name to app): replacing existing signature > xcrun: error: invalid active developer path (/Library/Developer/CommandLineTools), missing xcrun at: > /Library/Developer/CommandLineTools/usr/bin/xcrun > (path name to app): the codesign_allocate helper tool > cannot be found or used > In subcomponent > (path name to app):/Contents/MacOS/revsecurity.dylib > > Is this just saying I don’t have Xcode installed, or is > more complex than that? > > The program works fine in the IDE, I just can’t build the standalone. > > Anyone else ever get this one? > > Thanks, > > Rick > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From harrison at all-auctions.com Tue Sep 6 18:03:33 2022 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 18:03:33 -0400 Subject: Standalone Application Error In-Reply-To: <142F9442-6D73-488E-B418-8DC76A529E46@m-r-d.de> References: <367339530.2317548.1662361316808.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <367339530.2317548.1662361316808@mail.yahoo.com> <002b01d8c17e$5cd850b0$1688f210$@net> <018C39CA-3EC2-493B-9AF5-B001771684A8@iotecdigital.com> <11AECC76-E8F3-41D5-826E-6AD38E436C20@all-auctions.com> <142F9442-6D73-488E-B418-8DC76A529E46@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <587889E0-1A03-49D3-A631-F43B6DD95B03@all-auctions.com> Hi Matthias, I will do that. Thanks! Rick > On Sep 6, 2022, at 6:00 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > > You need at least the xCode command line tools installed. > > If you have an Apple Developer account, then please see > here > https://developer.apple.com/download/all/?q=command%20line%20tools > > to see all avaiables versions of the command line tools. > > Please download the one that is supported by your Livecode version (see the LC release notes for xCode support). > > Regards, > Matthias > > >> Am 06.09.2022 um 23:36 schrieb harrison--- via use-livecode : >> >> Greetings LiveCoders, >> >> I came up against this error today: >> >> There was an error while saving the standalone application >> Adding ad-hoc signature failed with error: >> (path name to app): replacing existing signature >> xcrun: error: invalid active developer path (/Library/Developer/CommandLineTools), missing xcrun at: >> /Library/Developer/CommandLineTools/usr/bin/xcrun >> (path name to app): the codesign_allocate helper tool >> cannot be found or used >> In subcomponent >> (path name to app):/Contents/MacOS/revsecurity.dylib >> >> Is this just saying I don’t have Xcode installed, or is >> more complex than that? >> >> The program works fine in the IDE, I just can’t build the standalone. >> >> Anyone else ever get this one? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Rick >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ahsoftware at sonic.net Tue Sep 6 18:22:29 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 15:22:29 -0700 Subject: alumin(i)um In-Reply-To: References: <005a01d8c226$e8596c70$b90c4550$@net> <327C82F3-CA0F-4108-8F46-1372C69F0691@milby7.com> <4553a5e4-dcc6-ff73-93f9-78893e040f8f@sonic.net> Message-ID: On 9/6/22 13:53, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > So the theoretical substance was dubbed Aluminum first That's "alumium" first. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Sep 6 18:30:50 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 15:30:50 -0700 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: <1AF693E6-CD76-4434-AEDE-B7E3DADF4C42@iotecdigital.com> References: <1AF693E6-CD76-4434-AEDE-B7E3DADF4C42@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <2dea7721-befc-e4da-8689-76510550550f@fourthworld.com> Bob Sneidar wrote: > That's great for buttons. I'd like to implement something for all > objects. My goal is to be able to offer the end user a way to change > their "motif" with a single click. Imagine being able to set the > properties of an object designated as a "class object", the object > then getting a propertyChanged message, and then having that > propertyChanged handler trigger the change of all the subscribed > properties of all the objects that are an instance of that class or > sub-class. Sounds very much like the way word processors manage styles: define a set of attributes, assign a name to the set, apply that set by name to selections as you go. If a change is needed just edit the style definition, click "Save Changes", and the changes are propagated to all objects to which that style has been assigned. Do I understand the desired workflow? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Sep 6 18:32:53 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 22:32:53 +0000 Subject: alumin(i)um In-Reply-To: References: <005a01d8c226$e8596c70$b90c4550$@net> <327C82F3-CA0F-4108-8F46-1372C69F0691@milby7.com> <4553a5e4-dcc6-ff73-93f9-78893e040f8f@sonic.net> Message-ID: <382FB6AA-7BD3-48B8-9A60-22C12E55AFB8@iotecdigital.com> I mean first before Alunimium. Bob S On Sep 6, 2022, at 15:22 , Mark Wieder via use-livecode > wrote: On 9/6/22 13:53, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: So the theoretical substance was dubbed Aluminum first That's "alumium" first. -- Mark Wieder From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Sep 6 18:34:30 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 22:34:30 +0000 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: <2dea7721-befc-e4da-8689-76510550550f@fourthworld.com> References: <1AF693E6-CD76-4434-AEDE-B7E3DADF4C42@iotecdigital.com> <2dea7721-befc-e4da-8689-76510550550f@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <84A3D906-ECAB-4B29-91C0-CC62292EEF99@iotecdigital.com> Yes but I had more in mind then display properties like font size and style. Bob S On Sep 6, 2022, at 15:30 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode > wrote: Bob Sneidar wrote: > That's great for buttons. I'd like to implement something for all > objects. My goal is to be able to offer the end user a way to change > their "motif" with a single click. Imagine being able to set the > properties of an object designated as a "class object", the object > then getting a propertyChanged message, and then having that > propertyChanged handler trigger the change of all the subscribed > properties of all the objects that are an instance of that class or > sub-class. Sounds very much like the way word processors manage styles: define a set of attributes, assign a name to the set, apply that set by name to selections as you go. If a change is needed just edit the style definition, click "Save Changes", and the changes are propagated to all objects to which that style has been assigned. Do I understand the desired workflow? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Tue Sep 6 19:32:36 2022 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2022 09:32:36 +1000 Subject: Cross-platform font handling, and why you don't want to do it Message-ID: Bob Sneider wrote: > The fonts do not get included in a MacOS standalone embedding fonts in a Mac standalone worked fine for me. Have you checked that the fonts are actually in /Contents/Resources/_MacOS/ and your file path when loading is correct On the IDE problem > when I quit Livecode, then relaunch it and open the stack, all the text of the labels appear out of alignment! sounds like a timing problem about what resources are available when LiveCode launches and your stack gets to do its font loading (in a pre-open stack handler?) and that the timing on Windows launch is just different. Neville Smythe From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Sep 6 19:48:06 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 23:48:06 +0000 Subject: Cross-platform font handling, and why you don't want to do it In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45B3C86D-256B-4576-845F-7431AD75D9A3@iotecdigital.com> I'm going through my code and disabling the places where I check if a standalone is being built. I put that in there to try and get around the problem where I get alerted that stacks are in use, but that code doesn't work anyway. I still have to build one platform at a time, quitting LC between each. I think that the build code is somehow not seeing that I am loading font files in the preOpenStack handler. Bob S On Sep 6, 2022, at 16:32 , Neville Smythe via use-livecode > wrote: Bob Sneider wrote: The fonts do not get included in a MacOS standalone embedding fonts in a Mac standalone worked fine for me. Have you checked that the fonts are actually in /Contents/Resources/_MacOS/ and your file path when loading is correct From gcanyon at gmail.com Wed Sep 7 03:16:22 2022 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2022 00:16:22 -0700 Subject: Stylistic question. In-Reply-To: <6697AA2B-0FD5-46A1-86CF-381113B80A1E@iotecdigital.com> References: <1818ceeb0b0.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <990BFD28-D609-4498-9DF0-A80E605861C4@iotecdigital.com> <87FBDED9-D4FA-4280-AB55-702A7A5DBA09@iotecdigital.com> <6697AA2B-0FD5-46A1-86CF-381113B80A1E@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Okay, I figured it out. When Navigator is displaying whatever the contents are of the current card (its default state) it syncs the selection with the selected controls. This goes both ways, so it's important not to get stuck in a loop: Navigator sets the selected controls, which in turn triggers Navigator to update its selection, which sets the selected controls, and so on. My code set a flag when changing the selection to stop that endless cycle, and that flag was stopping updates when the filter changes. So selections were retained when a specific card or group was displayed, but not retained when showing the top card "live". I've fixed this I think. I've also fixed named bookmark sets. I want to add an option on stacks to display all cards within the stack (and maybe all controls within the stack). And I want to run some tests on how fast Navigator is at this point, and do some regression testing, and then I'll release an update. Thanks for the report! gc On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 8:50 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I went to Github, the latest version is 7.3 RC1 which is what I already > had. Not sure where to look for the most recent version. Issue persists for > me. > > Bob S > > > > On Sep 6, 2022, at 08:11 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > I'll have a look. > > > > Bob S > > > > > > On Sep 5, 2022, at 19:11 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> > wrote: > > > > On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 10:32 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> > wrote: > > I will however ask for just one enhancement: If I am filtering the list > > and have an item or items selected, and then I clear the filter, it also > > clears the selection. It would be great if the selection could be > > maintained or restored. > > > > I checked, and there is code that is supposed to do exactly this. I > > checked, and at least in the simple scenarios I tried, it works as > > advertised. Do you have a recipe to make it not work? > > > > Note: I think I added this fairly recently, so you probably need the most > > recent version (or nearly so) for this to work. > > > > gc > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Sep 7 11:03:23 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2022 15:03:23 +0000 Subject: Stylistic question. In-Reply-To: References: <1818ceeb0b0.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <990BFD28-D609-4498-9DF0-A80E605861C4@iotecdigital.com> <87FBDED9-D4FA-4280-AB55-702A7A5DBA09@iotecdigital.com> <6697AA2B-0FD5-46A1-86CF-381113B80A1E@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Awesome good job. Bob S > On Sep 7, 2022, at 24:16 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode wrote: > > Okay, I figured it out. When Navigator is displaying whatever the contents > are of the current card (its default state) it syncs the selection with the > selected controls. This goes both ways, so it's important not to get stuck > in a loop: Navigator sets the selected controls, which in turn triggers > Navigator to update its selection, which sets the selected controls, and so > on. > > My code set a flag when changing the selection to stop that endless cycle, > and that flag was stopping updates when the filter changes. > > So selections were retained when a specific card or group was displayed, > but not retained when showing the top card "live". > > I've fixed this I think. I've also fixed named bookmark sets. I want to add > an option on stacks to display all cards within the stack (and maybe all > controls within the stack). And I want to run some tests on how fast > Navigator is at this point, and do some regression testing, and then I'll > release an update. > > Thanks for the report! > > gc > > On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 8:50 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> I went to Github, the latest version is 7.3 RC1 which is what I already >> had. Not sure where to look for the most recent version. Issue persists for >> me. >> >> Bob S >> >> >>> On Sep 6, 2022, at 08:11 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>> I'll have a look. >>> >>> Bob S >>> >>> >>> On Sep 5, 2022, at 19:11 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> >> wrote: >>> >>> On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 10:32 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> >> wrote: >>> I will however ask for just one enhancement: If I am filtering the list >>> and have an item or items selected, and then I clear the filter, it also >>> clears the selection. It would be great if the selection could be >>> maintained or restored. >>> >>> I checked, and there is code that is supposed to do exactly this. I >>> checked, and at least in the simple scenarios I tried, it works as >>> advertised. Do you have a recipe to make it not work? >>> >>> Note: I think I added this fairly recently, so you probably need the most >>> recent version (or nearly so) for this to work. >>> >>> gc >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Sep 7 11:50:02 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2022 15:50:02 +0000 Subject: Cross-platform font handling, and why you don't want to do it In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <69AECD7F-A2AB-4253-9593-8236A1F14F6C@iotecdigital.com> After I start using the font files I added a line to wait 10 ticks with messages. Same thing. I came up with a workaround though. If I set the rect of an object to it's current rect it forces a redraw. Curiously, if I set the rect of the entire stack to it's current rect it does NOT force a redraw. Bob S > On Sep 6, 2022, at 16:32 , Neville Smythe via use-livecode wrote: > > > Bob Sneider wrote: >> The fonts do not get included in a MacOS standalone > > > embedding fonts in a Mac standalone worked fine for me. Have you checked that the fonts are actually in /Contents/Resources/_MacOS/ and your file path when loading is correct > > On the IDE problem >> when I quit Livecode, then relaunch it and open the stack, all the text of the labels appear out of alignment! > > sounds like a timing problem about what resources are available when LiveCode launches and your stack gets to do its font loading (in a pre-open stack handler?) and that the timing on Windows launch is just different. > > Neville Smythe > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Sep 7 15:24:56 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2022 12:24:56 -0700 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: <84A3D906-ECAB-4B29-91C0-CC62292EEF99@iotecdigital.com> References: <84A3D906-ECAB-4B29-91C0-CC62292EEF99@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: You can have that. You don't need a message. Too many possibilities to try to anticipate in a list email. Give me a call and let's discuss. I'll bet in under 20 minutes you'll be fired up and crafting the styling subsystem of your dreams. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Bob Sneidar wrote: > > Yes but I had more in mind then display properties like font size and style. > > Bob S > > > On Sep 6, 2022, at 15:30 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode > wrote: > > Bob Sneidar wrote: > >> That's great for buttons. I'd like to implement something for all >> objects. My goal is to be able to offer the end user a way to change >> their "motif" with a single click. Imagine being able to set the >> properties of an object designated as a "class object", the object >> then getting a propertyChanged message, and then having that >> propertyChanged handler trigger the change of all the subscribed >> properties of all the objects that are an instance of that class or >> sub-class. > > Sounds very much like the way word processors manage styles: define a set of attributes, assign a name to the set, apply that set by name to selections as you go. > > If a change is needed just edit the style definition, click "Save Changes", and the changes are propagated to all objects to which that style has been assigned. > > Do I understand the desired workflow? > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Sep 7 18:03:10 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2022 22:03:10 +0000 Subject: Stylistic question. In-Reply-To: References: <1818ceeb0b0.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <990BFD28-D609-4498-9DF0-A80E605861C4@iotecdigital.com> <87FBDED9-D4FA-4280-AB55-702A7A5DBA09@iotecdigital.com> <6697AA2B-0FD5-46A1-86CF-381113B80A1E@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <1E86E371-EF17-4985-BE57-938BA45A2D64@iotecdigital.com> While you are at it, selecting the card, then selecting the Inspector button in the toolbar gets the stack properties, not the card properties. I know I can right-click and get the card properties, but if this is not the intended behavior I figured you'd want to know. Bob S > On Sep 7, 2022, at 08:03 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > Awesome good job. > > Bob S > > >> On Sep 7, 2022, at 24:16 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Okay, I figured it out. When Navigator is displaying whatever the contents >> are of the current card (its default state) it syncs the selection with the >> selected controls. This goes both ways, so it's important not to get stuck >> in a loop: Navigator sets the selected controls, which in turn triggers >> Navigator to update its selection, which sets the selected controls, and so >> on. >> >> My code set a flag when changing the selection to stop that endless cycle, >> and that flag was stopping updates when the filter changes. >> >> So selections were retained when a specific card or group was displayed, >> but not retained when showing the top card "live". >> >> I've fixed this I think. I've also fixed named bookmark sets. I want to add >> an option on stacks to display all cards within the stack (and maybe all >> controls within the stack). And I want to run some tests on how fast >> Navigator is at this point, and do some regression testing, and then I'll >> release an update. >> >> Thanks for the report! >> >> gc >> >> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 8:50 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>> I went to Github, the latest version is 7.3 RC1 which is what I already >>> had. Not sure where to look for the most recent version. Issue persists for >>> me. >>> >>> Bob S >>> >>> >>>> On Sep 6, 2022, at 08:11 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> I'll have a look. >>>> >>>> Bob S >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sep 5, 2022, at 19:11 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 10:32 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> >>> wrote: >>>> I will however ask for just one enhancement: If I am filtering the list >>>> and have an item or items selected, and then I clear the filter, it also >>>> clears the selection. It would be great if the selection could be >>>> maintained or restored. >>>> >>>> I checked, and there is code that is supposed to do exactly this. I >>>> checked, and at least in the simple scenarios I tried, it works as >>>> advertised. Do you have a recipe to make it not work? >>>> >>>> Note: I think I added this fairly recently, so you probably need the most >>>> recent version (or nearly so) for this to work. >>>> >>>> gc >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Sep 7 19:47:51 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2022 23:47:51 +0000 Subject: System Time Zone Message-ID: Hi all. I am exploring the possibility of creating a scheduling module, and am reading up on the iCalendar specification. I can localize the date and time by entering a valid time zone, and can hard code it for where I am at, but I want to be able to use this anywhere. The format of a localized time in iCalendar looks something like: DTSTAMP;TZID=America/Los_Angeles:20220907T163000 It's the, "America/Los_Angeles" bit I am trying to find a way to grok. How can I extract that in LC? Isn't there some kind of function that will return the current system's time zone? Bob S From ahsoftware at sonic.net Wed Sep 7 20:14:42 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2022 17:14:42 -0700 Subject: System Time Zone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 9/7/22 16:47, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > It's the, "America/Los_Angeles" bit I am trying to find a way to grok. How can I extract that in LC? Isn't there some kind of function that will return the current system's time zone? linux: put the last word of shell("date") osx: put word -2 of shell("date") Windows (possibly one of these) NOTE: empirically these return different values. ymmv: tzutil /g systeminfo | findstr /C:Time Zone -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Sep 7 21:46:01 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2022 20:46:01 -0500 Subject: System Time Zone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1831ac683a8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> "The internet time" gives you the offset from Greenwich time. No city though. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On September 7, 2022 6:50:09 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > Hi all. > > I am exploring the possibility of creating a scheduling module, and am > reading up on the iCalendar specification. I can localize the date and time > by entering a valid time zone, and can hard code it for where I am at, but > I want to be able to use this anywhere. > > The format of a localized time in iCalendar looks something like: > > DTSTAMP;TZID=America/Los_Angeles:20220907T163000 > > It's the, "America/Los_Angeles" bit I am trying to find a way to grok. How > can I extract that in LC? Isn't there some kind of function that will > return the current system's time zone? > > Bob S > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From Bernd.Niggemann at uni-wh.de Thu Sep 8 01:59:59 2022 From: Bernd.Niggemann at uni-wh.de (Niggemann, Bernd) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2022 05:59:59 +0000 Subject: System Time Zone Message-ID: Bob Sneidar via use-livecode Wed, 07 Sep 2022 16:49:43 -0700 Isn't there some kind of function that will return the current system's time zone? Hi Bob, there is a timeZone library in LC, maybe that is of help. Please be aware that some entries in the timeZone library are deprecated. https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23012 The bug report has a stack that uses the library. Kind regards Bernd From gcanyon at gmail.com Thu Sep 8 03:46:59 2022 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2022 00:46:59 -0700 Subject: Stylistic question. In-Reply-To: <1E86E371-EF17-4985-BE57-938BA45A2D64@iotecdigital.com> References: <1818ceeb0b0.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <990BFD28-D609-4498-9DF0-A80E605861C4@iotecdigital.com> <87FBDED9-D4FA-4280-AB55-702A7A5DBA09@iotecdigital.com> <6697AA2B-0FD5-46A1-86CF-381113B80A1E@iotecdigital.com> <1E86E371-EF17-4985-BE57-938BA45A2D64@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Hmm, I'll take a look. On Wed, Sep 7, 2022 at 3:04 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > While you are at it, selecting the card, then selecting the Inspector > button in the toolbar gets the stack properties, not the card properties. I > know I can right-click and get the card properties, but if this is not the > intended behavior I figured you'd want to know. > > Bob S > > > > On Sep 7, 2022, at 08:03 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > Awesome good job. > > > > Bob S > > > > > >> On Sep 7, 2022, at 24:16 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> > >> Okay, I figured it out. When Navigator is displaying whatever the > contents > >> are of the current card (its default state) it syncs the selection with > the > >> selected controls. This goes both ways, so it's important not to get > stuck > >> in a loop: Navigator sets the selected controls, which in turn triggers > >> Navigator to update its selection, which sets the selected controls, > and so > >> on. > >> > >> My code set a flag when changing the selection to stop that endless > cycle, > >> and that flag was stopping updates when the filter changes. > >> > >> So selections were retained when a specific card or group was displayed, > >> but not retained when showing the top card "live". > >> > >> I've fixed this I think. I've also fixed named bookmark sets. I want to > add > >> an option on stacks to display all cards within the stack (and maybe all > >> controls within the stack). And I want to run some tests on how fast > >> Navigator is at this point, and do some regression testing, and then > I'll > >> release an update. > >> > >> Thanks for the report! > >> > >> gc > >> > >> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 8:50 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> > >>> I went to Github, the latest version is 7.3 RC1 which is what I already > >>> had. Not sure where to look for the most recent version. Issue > persists for > >>> me. > >>> > >>> Bob S > >>> > >>> > >>>> On Sep 6, 2022, at 08:11 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> I'll have a look. > >>>> > >>>> Bob S > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Sep 5, 2022, at 19:11 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode < > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> > >>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 10:32 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < > >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> > >>> wrote: > >>>> I will however ask for just one enhancement: If I am filtering the > list > >>>> and have an item or items selected, and then I clear the filter, it > also > >>>> clears the selection. It would be great if the selection could be > >>>> maintained or restored. > >>>> > >>>> I checked, and there is code that is supposed to do exactly this. I > >>>> checked, and at least in the simple scenarios I tried, it works as > >>>> advertised. Do you have a recipe to make it not work? > >>>> > >>>> Note: I think I added this fairly recently, so you probably need the > most > >>>> recent version (or nearly so) for this to work. > >>>> > >>>> gc > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> use-livecode mailing list > >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>> subscription preferences: > >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> use-livecode mailing list > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>> subscription preferences: > >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From gcanyon at gmail.com Thu Sep 8 03:54:18 2022 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2022 00:54:18 -0700 Subject: Stylistic question. In-Reply-To: <1E86E371-EF17-4985-BE57-938BA45A2D64@iotecdigital.com> References: <1818ceeb0b0.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <990BFD28-D609-4498-9DF0-A80E605861C4@iotecdigital.com> <87FBDED9-D4FA-4280-AB55-702A7A5DBA09@iotecdigital.com> <6697AA2B-0FD5-46A1-86CF-381113B80A1E@iotecdigital.com> <1E86E371-EF17-4985-BE57-938BA45A2D64@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Can you be more specific? I tried selecting the card both in the live display and the specific card display, and then on the Properties "P" menu I selected Property Editor, Single Object Inspector, and Individual Object Inspectors, and it always came up showing the card. On Wed, Sep 7, 2022 at 3:04 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > While you are at it, selecting the card, then selecting the Inspector > button in the toolbar gets the stack properties, not the card properties. I > know I can right-click and get the card properties, but if this is not the > intended behavior I figured you'd want to know. > > Bob S > > > > On Sep 7, 2022, at 08:03 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > Awesome good job. > > > > Bob S > > > > > >> On Sep 7, 2022, at 24:16 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> > >> Okay, I figured it out. When Navigator is displaying whatever the > contents > >> are of the current card (its default state) it syncs the selection with > the > >> selected controls. This goes both ways, so it's important not to get > stuck > >> in a loop: Navigator sets the selected controls, which in turn triggers > >> Navigator to update its selection, which sets the selected controls, > and so > >> on. > >> > >> My code set a flag when changing the selection to stop that endless > cycle, > >> and that flag was stopping updates when the filter changes. > >> > >> So selections were retained when a specific card or group was displayed, > >> but not retained when showing the top card "live". > >> > >> I've fixed this I think. I've also fixed named bookmark sets. I want to > add > >> an option on stacks to display all cards within the stack (and maybe all > >> controls within the stack). And I want to run some tests on how fast > >> Navigator is at this point, and do some regression testing, and then > I'll > >> release an update. > >> > >> Thanks for the report! > >> > >> gc > >> > >> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 8:50 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> > >>> I went to Github, the latest version is 7.3 RC1 which is what I already > >>> had. Not sure where to look for the most recent version. Issue > persists for > >>> me. > >>> > >>> Bob S > >>> > >>> > >>>> On Sep 6, 2022, at 08:11 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> I'll have a look. > >>>> > >>>> Bob S > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Sep 5, 2022, at 19:11 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode < > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> > >>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 10:32 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < > >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> > >>> wrote: > >>>> I will however ask for just one enhancement: If I am filtering the > list > >>>> and have an item or items selected, and then I clear the filter, it > also > >>>> clears the selection. It would be great if the selection could be > >>>> maintained or restored. > >>>> > >>>> I checked, and there is code that is supposed to do exactly this. I > >>>> checked, and at least in the simple scenarios I tried, it works as > >>>> advertised. Do you have a recipe to make it not work? > >>>> > >>>> Note: I think I added this fairly recently, so you probably need the > most > >>>> recent version (or nearly so) for this to work. > >>>> > >>>> gc > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> use-livecode mailing list > >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>> subscription preferences: > >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> use-livecode mailing list > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>> subscription preferences: > >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Sep 8 11:26:48 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2022 15:26:48 +0000 Subject: System Time Zone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Returns PDT. I will now have to get a list of all time zone abbreviations and do a lookup table. Bob S On Sep 7, 2022, at 17:14 , Mark Wieder via use-livecode > wrote: osx: put word -2 of shell("date") From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Sep 8 11:34:53 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2022 15:34:53 +0000 Subject: System Time Zone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40176461-B5A9-467B-8651-E95AAB004DF3@iotecdigital.com> You can get the timezone of a widget, get a list of ALL time zones, convert to and from universal time. There is no way it seems to geet the current time zone of the system. Bob S > On Sep 7, 2022, at 22:59 , Niggemann, Bernd via use-livecode wrote: > > Bob Sneidar via use-livecode Wed, 07 Sep 2022 16:49:43 -0700 > > Isn't there some kind of function that will return the > current system's time zone? > > > Hi Bob, > there is a timeZone library in LC, maybe that is of help. > > Please be aware that some entries in the timeZone library are deprecated. > > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23012 > > The bug report has a stack that uses the library. > > Kind regards > Bernd > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Sep 8 11:37:53 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2022 15:37:53 +0000 Subject: Stylistic question. In-Reply-To: References: <1818ceeb0b0.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <990BFD28-D609-4498-9DF0-A80E605861C4@iotecdigital.com> <87FBDED9-D4FA-4280-AB55-702A7A5DBA09@iotecdigital.com> <6697AA2B-0FD5-46A1-86CF-381113B80A1E@iotecdigital.com> <1E86E371-EF17-4985-BE57-938BA45A2D64@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <38D7510C-9393-4E57-9239-702EE456ACB1@iotecdigital.com> Yes that works. What doesn't work is selecting the card in the list, then clicking the Inspector button in the LC IDE toolbar. It's easier for me to do that because if I click another object in Navigator, the focus of the Inspector (Properties Editor) changes to the selected object. If I do the right-click single object method, sometimes the focus does NOT change, and I have to do the right-click thungummy again. Bob S On Sep 8, 2022, at 24:54 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode > wrote: Can you be more specific? I tried selecting the card both in the live display and the specific card display, and then on the Properties "P" menu I selected Property Editor, Single Object Inspector, and Individual Object Inspectors, and it always came up showing the card. From ahsoftware at sonic.net Thu Sep 8 13:04:41 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2022 10:04:41 -0700 Subject: Excel Lib fail (solved!) In-Reply-To: <26f62937-4687-39a9-b49a-b4cc98a39259@sonic.net> References: <9e4bc610-59b4-7b49-b95a-bd03e38f5503@sonic.net> <26f62937-4687-39a9-b49a-b4cc98a39259@sonic.net> Message-ID: On 9/3/22 20:36, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > On 9/3/22 10:35, zryip theSlug via use-livecode wrote: >> Dear Mark, >> >> Due to this article, maybe? >> >> https://livecode.com/xlsx-lib-a-bonus-library-included-with-excel-library-in-the-megabundle-offer/ >> > > Yep. That's it. Thanks. > ...and i can now say that after playing with the library for a few days it's working well and doing everything I need it to. I'm importing a csv format file (format not under my control), totalling columns, displaying the data in a datagrid, formtting columns and rows, and exporting as an xlsx file for LibreOffice. I realize it's still labeled "experimental" and that some of the data formats may change, but they look like they'll be easy to deal with when that day comes. Well done. Highly recommended. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From klaus at major-k.de Fri Sep 9 06:00:26 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 12:00:26 +0200 Subject: LC converts phone number to scientific notation Message-ID: <74920219-28CD-46EA-825A-61AB3EC0006F@major-k.de> Hi friends, I have a very strange problem, but also found a workaround for it. I first convert an 8 MB CSV file with 60000 lines to TAB delimited data, then I parse the file and just extract some columns from the 60000 lines to display in a field. E.g. the column "number dialled", which contains phone number like -> 447973100123 The CSV files are definitively correct but I found that in the resulting field some of these numbers appear in scientific notation -> 4.47888E+11 This does not happen with phone numbers with a leading ZERO: like -> 07557162491 So maybe this a small hint? However I do not even touch these items I just use: ... put item 9 of tLine into item 6 of tNewLine ## tLine is the line from the CSV and tNewLine is for the data in the display field. ... My simple workaround, no idea why, but it obviously works: ... put item 9 of tLine into ttt put ttt into item 6 of tNewLine ... This avoids the scientific notation, what the hell is going on here? Any hints welcome. Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From merakosp at gmail.com Fri Sep 9 06:27:27 2022 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis m) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 13:27:27 +0300 Subject: LC converts phone number to scientific notation In-Reply-To: <74920219-28CD-46EA-825A-61AB3EC0006F@major-k.de> References: <74920219-28CD-46EA-825A-61AB3EC0006F@major-k.de> Message-ID: Hello Klaus, I guess what happens here is that if you fetch item X of line Y and use it directly, LC treats it as a number and displays it in scientific notation. On the contrary, if you first put item X of line Y into a variable, then the variable is treated as text, so it is not converted. Kind regards, Panos -- On Fri, 9 Sept 2022 at 13:01, Klaus major-k via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi friends, > > I have a very strange problem, but also found a workaround for it. > > I first convert an 8 MB CSV file with 60000 lines to TAB delimited data, > then I parse the file > and just extract some columns from the 60000 lines to display in a field. > E.g. the column "number dialled", which contains phone number like > -> 447973100123 > > The CSV files are definitively correct but I found that in the resulting > field some of these numbers > appear in scientific notation > -> 4.47888E+11 > > This does not happen with phone numbers with a leading ZERO: like > -> 07557162491 > So maybe this a small hint? > > However I do not even touch these items I just use: > ... > put item 9 of tLine into item 6 of tNewLine > ## tLine is the line from the CSV and tNewLine is for the data in the > display field. > ... > > My simple workaround, no idea why, but it obviously works: > ... > put item 9 of tLine into ttt > put ttt into item 6 of tNewLine > ... > This avoids the scientific notation, what the hell is going on here? > Any hints welcome. > > > Best > > Klaus > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > https://www.major-k.de/bass > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From klaus at major-k.de Fri Sep 9 06:40:12 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 12:40:12 +0200 Subject: LC converts phone number to scientific notation In-Reply-To: References: <74920219-28CD-46EA-825A-61AB3EC0006F@major-k.de> Message-ID: Hi Panos, > Am 09.09.2022 um 12:27 schrieb panagiotis m via use-livecode : > > Hello Klaus, > > I guess what happens here is that if you fetch item X of line Y and use it > directly, LC treats it as a number and displays it in scientific notation. obviously! > On the contrary, if you first put item X of line Y into a variable, then > the variable is treated as text, so it is not converted. Yo, that's why my workaround erm. works. :-) Thank you for the explanation! > Kind regards, > Panos > -- > > On Fri, 9 Sept 2022 at 13:01, Klaus major-k via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Hi friends, >> >> I have a very strange problem, but also found a workaround for it. >> >> I first convert an 8 MB CSV file with 60000 lines to TAB delimited data, >> then I parse the file >> and just extract some columns from the 60000 lines to display in a field. >> E.g. the column "number dialled", which contains phone number like >> -> 447973100123 >> >> The CSV files are definitively correct but I found that in the resulting >> field some of these numbers >> appear in scientific notation >> -> 4.47888E+11 >> >> This does not happen with phone numbers with a leading ZERO: like >> -> 07557162491 >> So maybe this a small hint? >> >> However I do not even touch these items I just use: >> ... >> put item 9 of tLine into item 6 of tNewLine >> ## tLine is the line from the CSV and tNewLine is for the data in the >> display field. >> ... >> >> My simple workaround, no idea why, but it obviously works: >> ... >> put item 9 of tLine into ttt >> put ttt into item 6 of tNewLine >> ... >> This avoids the scientific notation, what the hell is going on here? >> Any hints welcome. > Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From alex at tweedly.net Fri Sep 9 09:18:13 2022 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 14:18:13 +0100 Subject: LC converts phone number to scientific notation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <27688A00-CE47-4BEF-AD74-508D26423EA8@tweedly.net> How about Put (“” & item 9 of globe) onto item 6 of tnewline Alex Sent from my iPhone > On 9 Sep 2022, at 11:40, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Panos, > >> Am 09.09.2022 um 12:27 schrieb panagiotis m via use-livecode : >> >> Hello Klaus, >> >> I guess what happens here is that if you fetch item X of line Y and use it >> directly, LC treats it as a number and displays it in scientific notation. > > obviously! > >> On the contrary, if you first put item X of line Y into a variable, then >> the variable is treated as text, so it is not converted. > > Yo, that's why my workaround erm. works. :-) > Thank you for the explanation! > >> Kind regards, >> Panos >> -- >> >>> On Fri, 9 Sept 2022 at 13:01, Klaus major-k via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>> Hi friends, >>> >>> I have a very strange problem, but also found a workaround for it. >>> >>> I first convert an 8 MB CSV file with 60000 lines to TAB delimited data, >>> then I parse the file >>> and just extract some columns from the 60000 lines to display in a field. >>> E.g. the column "number dialled", which contains phone number like >>> -> 447973100123 >>> >>> The CSV files are definitively correct but I found that in the resulting >>> field some of these numbers >>> appear in scientific notation >>> -> 4.47888E+11 >>> >>> This does not happen with phone numbers with a leading ZERO: like >>> -> 07557162491 >>> So maybe this a small hint? >>> >>> However I do not even touch these items I just use: >>> ... >>> put item 9 of tLine into item 6 of tNewLine >>> ## tLine is the line from the CSV and tNewLine is for the data in the >>> display field. >>> ... >>> >>> My simple workaround, no idea why, but it obviously works: >>> ... >>> put item 9 of tLine into ttt >>> put ttt into item 6 of tNewLine >>> ... >>> This avoids the scientific notation, what the hell is going on here? >>> Any hints welcome. >> > > Best > > Klaus > > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > https://www.major-k.de/bass > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From klaus at major-k.de Fri Sep 9 09:32:39 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 15:32:39 +0200 Subject: LC converts phone number to scientific notation In-Reply-To: <27688A00-CE47-4BEF-AD74-508D26423EA8@tweedly.net> References: <27688A00-CE47-4BEF-AD74-508D26423EA8@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <95A51D94-E599-4026-AC26-7D37C729487A@major-k.de> Hi Alex, > Am 09.09.2022 um 15:18 schrieb Alex Tweedly via use-livecode : > > How about > > Put (“” & item 9 of globe) onto item 6 of tnewline or this way. :-) > Alex > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 9 Sep 2022, at 11:40, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Hi Panos, >> >>> Am 09.09.2022 um 12:27 schrieb panagiotis m via use-livecode : >>> >>> Hello Klaus, >>> >>> I guess what happens here is that if you fetch item X of line Y and use it >>> directly, LC treats it as a number and displays it in scientific notation. >> >> obviously! >> >>> On the contrary, if you first put item X of line Y into a variable, then >>> the variable is treated as text, so it is not converted. >> >> Yo, that's why my workaround erm. works. :-) >> Thank you for the explanation! >> >>> Kind regards, >>> Panos Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri Sep 9 09:39:04 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 09:39:04 -0400 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <005a01d8c226$e8596c70$b90c4550$@net> <327C82F3-CA0F-4108-8F46-1372C69F0691@milby7.com> Message-ID: Throwing NavRAD into my extensions folder doesn't seem to install it. I wonder why. On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:19 PM Mike Kerner wrote: > by the way, isn't it crazy how much overhead is required with lcb widgets? > there is so...much...stuff you have to put on top just to get to the heart > of the thing. > and i'm never going to like the way lc embeds the comments in the source > of anything. > or the way they spell "favourites", or pronounce "Aluminum". Do you see an > extra "i" in there? No? It's invisible, that's why. > > On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:00 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> I think the user is going to need to code the width adjustment in the >> resizeStack handler. Widgets can’t change their rect on their own. It has >> to happen from the LCS side. >> >> Brian Milby >> brian at milby7.com >> >> > On Sep 6, 2022, at 3:29 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> > >> > Mike, >> > >> > For future reference the source is in the .lce file. The .lce is in zip >> format. Temporarily change the extension to .zip. You will see the lcb file >> in there. Also when you install it the source will be in the extension >> folder. But since I posted .lce I have put in comments starting with "RAD >> Change" to show where I have made changes. Here is the link to the updated >> source==>https://www.dropbox.com/s/bv930usovpruo5e/navrad.lcb?dl=0 >> > >> > Thanks for taking a look! >> > >> > Also I found that after I updated the docs that the docs are generated >> from the lcb file. I re-built the widget and boom my doc changes were >> destroyed. No problem I just had redo the docs for my changes in the lcb >> file. So many unknowns. I am trying to find a way to resize it to the card >> width with a user setting for height percent of card width. But the docs >> are so scant and confusing I feel the giant headache coming on again. >> > >> > >> > Ralph DiMola >> > IT Director >> > Evergreen Information Services >> > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On >> Behalf Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode >> > Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2022 3:00 PM >> > To: How to use LiveCode >> > Cc: Mike Kerner >> > Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual >> > >> > Ralph, >> > got the source, somewhere? i'd like to learn from it. >> > testing to begin...now. >> > >> >> On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 1:32 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> I took a major stab at LCB and created a new widget based on the >> >> navbar widget. I have made 2 changes to the navbar and call it navrad. >> >> It does not modify the stock navbar. With almost no docs it was a >> >> challenge. There were so many unknowns I got a few giant headaches. It >> >> adds 4 new properties(iconFill,autoRADHilite,preHilitedItem, >> >> preHilitedItemName) and 1 new message(preHiliteChanged). I updated the >> >> documentation so the new properties and message show in the dictionary >> >> with example(search for "navrad" or just "rad"). >> >> One thing I ran into was that I had to call the "autohilite" property >> >> autoRADHilite because using any existing property causes a confilict >> >> that I could not get around without sufficient docs. It does show in >> >> the property inspector as "auto hilite". These changes allow >> >> 1)enlarge/center the icon if there is no label 2)intercept a selection >> >> before it is hilited and make a choice to hilite and send the stock >> >> hiliteChanged message (or not). Why no label? For one social media >> icons don’t need labels. Why a pre message? >> >> Someone suggested it and I thought it was a great idea. Backwards >> >> compatible with existing navbar LCS code. The was an auto sizing to >> >> card width request. I will look to see if I can do it without more >> docs(or help). >> >> >> >> If anyone would like to try it and find any bugs it's at ==> >> >> https://www.dropbox.com/s/51zm4m8dip49jov/com.livecode.widget.navrad.2 >> >> .0.0.lce?dl=0 >> >> >> >> >> >> Ralph DiMola >> >> IT Director >> >> Evergreen Information Services >> >> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> use-livecode mailing list >> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> >> subscription preferences: >> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> > >> > >> > -- >> > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second >> day, God created the oceans. >> > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> > and did a little diving. >> > And God said, "This is good." >> > _______________________________________________ >> > use-livecode mailing list >> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > use-livecode mailing list >> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From brian at milby7.com Fri Sep 9 09:54:29 2022 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 09:54:29 -0400 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <792CBF1B-E772-45CD-9137-B12837C2E320@milby7.com> You have to use the IDE to install widgets. Tools… Extension Manager… + (icon, top right) Brian Milby brian at milby7.com > On Sep 9, 2022, at 9:40 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > Throwing NavRAD into my extensions folder doesn't seem to install it. I > wonder why. > >> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:19 PM Mike Kerner >> wrote: >> >> by the way, isn't it crazy how much overhead is required with lcb widgets? >> there is so...much...stuff you have to put on top just to get to the heart >> of the thing. >> and i'm never going to like the way lc embeds the comments in the source >> of anything. >> or the way they spell "favourites", or pronounce "Aluminum". Do you see an >> extra "i" in there? No? It's invisible, that's why. >> >> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:00 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>> I think the user is going to need to code the width adjustment in the >>> resizeStack handler. Widgets can’t change their rect on their own. It has >>> to happen from the LCS side. >>> >>> Brian Milby >>> brian at milby7.com >>> >>>> On Sep 6, 2022, at 3:29 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Mike, >>>> >>>> For future reference the source is in the .lce file. The .lce is in zip >>> format. Temporarily change the extension to .zip. You will see the lcb file >>> in there. Also when you install it the source will be in the extension >>> folder. But since I posted .lce I have put in comments starting with "RAD >>> Change" to show where I have made changes. Here is the link to the updated >>> source==>https://www.dropbox.com/s/bv930usovpruo5e/navrad.lcb?dl=0 >>>> >>>> Thanks for taking a look! >>>> >>>> Also I found that after I updated the docs that the docs are generated >>> from the lcb file. I re-built the widget and boom my doc changes were >>> destroyed. No problem I just had redo the docs for my changes in the lcb >>> file. So many unknowns. I am trying to find a way to resize it to the card >>> width with a user setting for height percent of card width. But the docs >>> are so scant and confusing I feel the giant headache coming on again. >>>> >>>> >>>> Ralph DiMola >>>> IT Director >>>> Evergreen Information Services >>>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On >>> Behalf Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode >>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2022 3:00 PM >>>> To: How to use LiveCode >>>> Cc: Mike Kerner >>>> Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual >>>> >>>> Ralph, >>>> got the source, somewhere? i'd like to learn from it. >>>> testing to begin...now. >>>> >>>>> On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 1:32 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I took a major stab at LCB and created a new widget based on the >>>>> navbar widget. I have made 2 changes to the navbar and call it navrad. >>>>> It does not modify the stock navbar. With almost no docs it was a >>>>> challenge. There were so many unknowns I got a few giant headaches. It >>>>> adds 4 new properties(iconFill,autoRADHilite,preHilitedItem, >>>>> preHilitedItemName) and 1 new message(preHiliteChanged). I updated the >>>>> documentation so the new properties and message show in the dictionary >>>>> with example(search for "navrad" or just "rad"). >>>>> One thing I ran into was that I had to call the "autohilite" property >>>>> autoRADHilite because using any existing property causes a confilict >>>>> that I could not get around without sufficient docs. It does show in >>>>> the property inspector as "auto hilite". These changes allow >>>>> 1)enlarge/center the icon if there is no label 2)intercept a selection >>>>> before it is hilited and make a choice to hilite and send the stock >>>>> hiliteChanged message (or not). Why no label? For one social media >>> icons don’t need labels. Why a pre message? >>>>> Someone suggested it and I thought it was a great idea. Backwards >>>>> compatible with existing navbar LCS code. The was an auto sizing to >>>>> card width request. I will look to see if I can do it without more >>> docs(or help). >>>>> >>>>> If anyone would like to try it and find any bugs it's at ==> >>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/51zm4m8dip49jov/com.livecode.widget.navrad.2 >>>>> .0.0.lce?dl=0 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Ralph DiMola >>>>> IT Director >>>>> Evergreen Information Services >>>>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second >>> day, God created the oceans. >>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >>>> and did a little diving. >>>> And God said, "This is good." >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> >> -- >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >> On the second day, God created the oceans. >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> and did a little diving. >> And God said, "This is good." >> > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Fri Sep 9 10:32:13 2022 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 10:32:13 -0400 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: <792CBF1B-E772-45CD-9137-B12837C2E320@milby7.com> References: <792CBF1B-E772-45CD-9137-B12837C2E320@milby7.com> Message-ID: <001601d8c458$f6ebe310$e4c3a930$@net> Yes, And after the install you will the widget folder in your "My LiveCode"==>Extensions folder. It will appear the the tool palette and in the inclusions pane of the standalone settings. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Brian Milby via use-livecode Sent: Friday, September 09, 2022 9:54 AM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Brian Milby Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual You have to use the IDE to install widgets. Tools… Extension Manager… + (icon, top right) Brian Milby brian at milby7.com > On Sep 9, 2022, at 9:40 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > Throwing NavRAD into my extensions folder doesn't seem to install it. > I wonder why. > >> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:19 PM Mike Kerner >> >> wrote: >> >> by the way, isn't it crazy how much overhead is required with lcb widgets? >> there is so...much...stuff you have to put on top just to get to the >> heart of the thing. >> and i'm never going to like the way lc embeds the comments in the >> source of anything. >> or the way they spell "favourites", or pronounce "Aluminum". Do you >> see an extra "i" in there? No? It's invisible, that's why. >> >> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:00 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>> I think the user is going to need to code the width adjustment in >>> the resizeStack handler. Widgets can’t change their rect on their >>> own. It has to happen from the LCS side. >>> >>> Brian Milby >>> brian at milby7.com >>> >>>> On Sep 6, 2022, at 3:29 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Mike, >>>> >>>> For future reference the source is in the .lce file. The .lce is in >>>> zip >>> format. Temporarily change the extension to .zip. You will see the >>> lcb file in there. Also when you install it the source will be in >>> the extension folder. But since I posted .lce I have put in comments >>> starting with "RAD Change" to show where I have made changes. Here >>> is the link to the updated >>> source==>https://www.dropbox.com/s/bv930usovpruo5e/navrad.lcb?dl=0 >>>> >>>> Thanks for taking a look! >>>> >>>> Also I found that after I updated the docs that the docs are >>>> generated >>> from the lcb file. I re-built the widget and boom my doc changes >>> were destroyed. No problem I just had redo the docs for my changes >>> in the lcb file. So many unknowns. I am trying to find a way to >>> resize it to the card width with a user setting for height percent >>> of card width. But the docs are so scant and confusing I feel the giant headache coming on again. >>>> >>>> >>>> Ralph DiMola >>>> IT Director >>>> Evergreen Information Services >>>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] >>>> On >>> Behalf Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode >>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2022 3:00 PM >>>> To: How to use LiveCode >>>> Cc: Mike Kerner >>>> Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual >>>> >>>> Ralph, >>>> got the source, somewhere? i'd like to learn from it. >>>> testing to begin...now. >>>> >>>>> On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 1:32 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I took a major stab at LCB and created a new widget based on the >>>>> navbar widget. I have made 2 changes to the navbar and call it navrad. >>>>> It does not modify the stock navbar. With almost no docs it was a >>>>> challenge. There were so many unknowns I got a few giant >>>>> headaches. It adds 4 new >>>>> properties(iconFill,autoRADHilite,preHilitedItem, >>>>> preHilitedItemName) and 1 new message(preHiliteChanged). I updated >>>>> the documentation so the new properties and message show in the >>>>> dictionary with example(search for "navrad" or just "rad"). >>>>> One thing I ran into was that I had to call the "autohilite" >>>>> property autoRADHilite because using any existing property causes >>>>> a confilict that I could not get around without sufficient docs. >>>>> It does show in the property inspector as "auto hilite". These >>>>> changes allow 1)enlarge/center the icon if there is no label >>>>> 2)intercept a selection before it is hilited and make a choice to >>>>> hilite and send the stock hiliteChanged message (or not). Why no >>>>> label? For one social media >>> icons don’t need labels. Why a pre message? >>>>> Someone suggested it and I thought it was a great idea. Backwards >>>>> compatible with existing navbar LCS code. The was an auto sizing >>>>> to card width request. I will look to see if I can do it without >>>>> more >>> docs(or help). >>>>> >>>>> If anyone would like to try it and find any bugs it's at ==> >>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/51zm4m8dip49jov/com.livecode.widget.navr >>>>> ad.2 >>>>> .0.0.lce?dl=0 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Ralph DiMola >>>>> IT Director >>>>> Evergreen Information Services >>>>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the >>>> second >>> day, God created the oceans. >>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and >>>> did a little diving. >>>> And God said, "This is good." >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> >> -- >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second >> day, God created the oceans. >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> and did a little diving. >> And God said, "This is good." >> > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second > day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 9 11:38:08 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 15:38:08 +0000 Subject: LC converts phone number to scientific notation In-Reply-To: <74920219-28CD-46EA-825A-61AB3EC0006F@major-k.de> References: <74920219-28CD-46EA-825A-61AB3EC0006F@major-k.de> Message-ID: I have a function called formatPhone() I can modify it to support international notation and send it to you. Are all country codes 2 digits? And why would a phone number have a leading 0? Bob S > On Sep 9, 2022, at 03:00 , Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi friends, > > I have a very strange problem, but also found a workaround for it. > > I first convert an 8 MB CSV file with 60000 lines to TAB delimited data, then I parse the file > and just extract some columns from the 60000 lines to display in a field. > E.g. the column "number dialled", which contains phone number like > -> 447973100123 > > The CSV files are definitively correct but I found that in the resulting field some of these numbers > appear in scientific notation > -> 4.47888E+11 > > This does not happen with phone numbers with a leading ZERO: like > -> 07557162491 > So maybe this a small hint? > > However I do not even touch these items I just use: > ... > put item 9 of tLine into item 6 of tNewLine > ## tLine is the line from the CSV and tNewLine is for the data in the display field. > ... > > My simple workaround, no idea why, but it obviously works: > ... > put item 9 of tLine into ttt > put ttt into item 6 of tNewLine > ... > This avoids the scientific notation, what the hell is going on here? > Any hints welcome. > > > Best > > Klaus > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > https://www.major-k.de/bass > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 9 11:39:41 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 15:39:41 +0000 Subject: LC converts phone number to scientific notation In-Reply-To: <95A51D94-E599-4026-AC26-7D37C729487A@major-k.de> References: <27688A00-CE47-4BEF-AD74-508D26423EA8@tweedly.net> <95A51D94-E599-4026-AC26-7D37C729487A@major-k.de> Message-ID: <5A3E8B94-0B38-4CFE-A9E5-643FA84B80D9@iotecdigital.com> Someone needs to debug their emails. ;-) Bob S On Sep 9, 2022, at 06:32 , Klaus major-k via use-livecode > wrote: Put (“” & item 9 of globe) onto item 6 of tnewline From klaus at major-k.de Fri Sep 9 11:51:21 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 17:51:21 +0200 Subject: LC converts phone number to scientific notation In-Reply-To: References: <74920219-28CD-46EA-825A-61AB3EC0006F@major-k.de> Message-ID: <30B13EE7-EBAA-4985-8AE3-E17F1632535A@major-k.de> Hi Bob, > Am 09.09.2022 um 17:38 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode : > > I have a function called formatPhone() I can modify it to support international notation and send it to you. thank you, will then store it for future use. > Are all country codes 2 digits? And why would a phone number have a leading 0? I don't have the slightest idea, I am just processing the CSV files, wherever they come from and whatever they may contain... 8-) > Bob S Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 9 12:45:32 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 16:45:32 +0000 Subject: LC converts phone number to scientific notation In-Reply-To: <30B13EE7-EBAA-4985-8AE3-E17F1632535A@major-k.de> References: <74920219-28CD-46EA-825A-61AB3EC0006F@major-k.de> <30B13EE7-EBAA-4985-8AE3-E17F1632535A@major-k.de> Message-ID: <62F6914F-0AAD-4960-BD0E-08CDE2D0E7AA@iotecdigital.com> OK As it turns out, it is nearly impossible to format a series of digits to an international format, separating the different parts by delimiters like - and (). Refer to web link for details. https://www.tipard.com/mobile/international-phone-number-format.html In short, the country code can be 1 to 3 digits, the dial out code *should* be 00 but some countries don't comply with the standard, and use a different code, which can be 2 to 3 digits, etc. To internationalize formatPhone() I would need a database of each country and how they format their phone numbers, and boo on that idea. Here is my formatPhone() code as it stands for US and Canada. (I think it is included in the Master Library as well.) If the phone number is not not 7 or 10 digits after extracting the extension, then it returns the original value. FUNCTION formatPhone thePhoneNumber, theFormat -- text -- mid IF theFormat is empty THEN put "classic" into theFormat END IF IF thePhoneNumber is empty THEN return thePhoneNumber END IF if "ext" is in thePhoneNumber then put offset("ext", thePhoneNumber) into tChar put char tChar to -1 of thePhoneNumber into theExtension put char 1 to tChar -1 of thePhoneNumber into thePhoneNumber else if "x" is in thePhoneNumber then put offset("x", thePhoneNumber) into tChar put char tChar to -1 of thePhoneNumber into theExtension put char 1 to tChar -1 of thePhoneNumber into thePhoneNumber end if REPEAT WITH i = 1 to the number of chars of thePhoneNumber IF char i of thePhoneNumber is a number THEN put char i of thePhoneNumber AFTER theNewValue END IF END REPEAT put the length of theNewValue into theLength IF theLength is not among the items of "7,10" THEN return thePhoneNumber && theExtension exit formatPhone END IF put "-" BEFORE char -4 of theNewValue IF theLength is 10 THEN IF theFormat is "classic" THEN put ") " AFTER char 3 of theNewValue put "(" BEFORE theNewValue ELSE put "-" AFTER char 3 of theNewValue END IF END IF IF theExtension is not empty THEN put " " & theExtension AFTER theNewValue return theNewValue END formatPhone Bob S On Sep 9, 2022, at 08:51 , Klaus major-k via use-livecode > wrote: Hi Bob, Am 09.09.2022 um 17:38 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode >: I have a function called formatPhone() I can modify it to support international notation and send it to you. thank you, will then store it for future use. From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri Sep 9 13:03:51 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 13:03:51 -0400 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: <001601d8c458$f6ebe310$e4c3a930$@net> References: <792CBF1B-E772-45CD-9137-B12837C2E320@milby7.com> <001601d8c458$f6ebe310$e4c3a930$@net> Message-ID: Weird. I thought you could just toss it in the extensions folder. On Fri, Sep 9, 2022 at 10:33 AM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Yes, And after the install you will the widget folder in your "My > LiveCode"==>Extensions folder. It will appear the the tool palette and in > the inclusions pane of the standalone settings. > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On > Behalf Of Brian Milby via use-livecode > Sent: Friday, September 09, 2022 9:54 AM > To: How to use LiveCode > Cc: Brian Milby > Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual > > You have to use the IDE to install widgets. > Tools… Extension Manager… + (icon, top right) > > Brian Milby > brian at milby7.com > > > On Sep 9, 2022, at 9:40 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > Throwing NavRAD into my extensions folder doesn't seem to install it. > > I wonder why. > > > >> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:19 PM Mike Kerner > >> > >> wrote: > >> > >> by the way, isn't it crazy how much overhead is required with lcb > widgets? > >> there is so...much...stuff you have to put on top just to get to the > >> heart of the thing. > >> and i'm never going to like the way lc embeds the comments in the > >> source of anything. > >> or the way they spell "favourites", or pronounce "Aluminum". Do you > >> see an extra "i" in there? No? It's invisible, that's why. > >> > >> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:00 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode < > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> > >>> I think the user is going to need to code the width adjustment in > >>> the resizeStack handler. Widgets can’t change their rect on their > >>> own. It has to happen from the LCS side. > >>> > >>> Brian Milby > >>> brian at milby7.com > >>> > >>>> On Sep 6, 2022, at 3:29 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Mike, > >>>> > >>>> For future reference the source is in the .lce file. The .lce is in > >>>> zip > >>> format. Temporarily change the extension to .zip. You will see the > >>> lcb file in there. Also when you install it the source will be in > >>> the extension folder. But since I posted .lce I have put in comments > >>> starting with "RAD Change" to show where I have made changes. Here > >>> is the link to the updated > >>> source==>https://www.dropbox.com/s/bv930usovpruo5e/navrad.lcb?dl=0 > >>>> > >>>> Thanks for taking a look! > >>>> > >>>> Also I found that after I updated the docs that the docs are > >>>> generated > >>> from the lcb file. I re-built the widget and boom my doc changes > >>> were destroyed. No problem I just had redo the docs for my changes > >>> in the lcb file. So many unknowns. I am trying to find a way to > >>> resize it to the card width with a user setting for height percent > >>> of card width. But the docs are so scant and confusing I feel the > giant headache coming on again. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Ralph DiMola > >>>> IT Director > >>>> Evergreen Information Services > >>>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > >>>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] > >>>> On > >>> Behalf Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode > >>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2022 3:00 PM > >>>> To: How to use LiveCode > >>>> Cc: Mike Kerner > >>>> Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual > >>>> > >>>> Ralph, > >>>> got the source, somewhere? i'd like to learn from it. > >>>> testing to begin...now. > >>>> > >>>>> On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 1:32 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> I took a major stab at LCB and created a new widget based on the > >>>>> navbar widget. I have made 2 changes to the navbar and call it > navrad. > >>>>> It does not modify the stock navbar. With almost no docs it was a > >>>>> challenge. There were so many unknowns I got a few giant > >>>>> headaches. It adds 4 new > >>>>> properties(iconFill,autoRADHilite,preHilitedItem, > >>>>> preHilitedItemName) and 1 new message(preHiliteChanged). I updated > >>>>> the documentation so the new properties and message show in the > >>>>> dictionary with example(search for "navrad" or just "rad"). > >>>>> One thing I ran into was that I had to call the "autohilite" > >>>>> property autoRADHilite because using any existing property causes > >>>>> a confilict that I could not get around without sufficient docs. > >>>>> It does show in the property inspector as "auto hilite". These > >>>>> changes allow 1)enlarge/center the icon if there is no label > >>>>> 2)intercept a selection before it is hilited and make a choice to > >>>>> hilite and send the stock hiliteChanged message (or not). Why no > >>>>> label? For one social media > >>> icons don’t need labels. Why a pre message? > >>>>> Someone suggested it and I thought it was a great idea. Backwards > >>>>> compatible with existing navbar LCS code. The was an auto sizing > >>>>> to card width request. I will look to see if I can do it without > >>>>> more > >>> docs(or help). > >>>>> > >>>>> If anyone would like to try it and find any bugs it's at ==> > >>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/51zm4m8dip49jov/com.livecode.widget.navr > >>>>> ad.2 > >>>>> .0.0.lce?dl=0 > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Ralph DiMola > >>>>> IT Director > >>>>> Evergreen Information Services > >>>>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> use-livecode mailing list > >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>>>> subscription preferences: > >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the > >>>> second > >>> day, God created the oceans. > >>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and > >>>> did a little diving. > >>>> And God said, "This is good." > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> use-livecode mailing list > >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>> subscription preferences: > >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> use-livecode mailing list > >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>> subscription preferences: > >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> use-livecode mailing list > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>> subscription preferences: > >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second > >> day, God created the oceans. > >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > >> and did a little diving. > >> And God said, "This is good." > >> > > > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second > > day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Sep 9 13:43:07 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2022 12:43:07 -0500 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <792CBF1B-E772-45CD-9137-B12837C2E320@milby7.com> <001601d8c458$f6ebe310$e4c3a930$@net> Message-ID: <18323591ff8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> It needs to install the dictionary entry and the extension itself, and put the reference into the tools palette. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On September 9, 2022 12:06:29 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > Weird. I thought you could just toss it in the extensions folder. > > On Fri, Sep 9, 2022 at 10:33 AM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Yes, And after the install you will the widget folder in your "My >> LiveCode"==>Extensions folder. It will appear the the tool palette and in >> the inclusions pane of the standalone settings. >> >> Ralph DiMola >> IT Director >> Evergreen Information Services >> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On >> Behalf Of Brian Milby via use-livecode >> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2022 9:54 AM >> To: How to use LiveCode >> Cc: Brian Milby >> Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual >> >> You have to use the IDE to install widgets. >> Tools Extension Manager + (icon, top right) >> >> Brian Milby >> brian at milby7.com >> >> > On Sep 9, 2022, at 9:40 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> > >> > Throwing NavRAD into my extensions folder doesn't seem to install it. >> > I wonder why. >> > >> >> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:19 PM Mike Kerner >> >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> by the way, isn't it crazy how much overhead is required with lcb >> widgets? >> >> there is so...much...stuff you have to put on top just to get to the >> >> heart of the thing. >> >> and i'm never going to like the way lc embeds the comments in the >> >> source of anything. >> >> or the way they spell "favourites", or pronounce "Aluminum". Do you >> >> see an extra "i" in there? No? It's invisible, that's why. >> >> >> >> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:00 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode < >> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >> >> >>> I think the user is going to need to code the width adjustment in >> >>> the resizeStack handler. Widgets cant change their rect on their >> >>> own. It has to happen from the LCS side. >> >>> >> >>> Brian Milby >> >>> brian at milby7.com >> >>> >> >>>> On Sep 6, 2022, at 3:29 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < >> >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>> Mike, >> >>>> >> >>>> For future reference the source is in the .lce file. The .lce is in >> >>>> zip >> >>> format. Temporarily change the extension to .zip. You will see the >> >>> lcb file in there. Also when you install it the source will be in >> >>> the extension folder. But since I posted .lce I have put in comments >> >>> starting with "RAD Change" to show where I have made changes. Here >> >>> is the link to the updated >> >>> source==>https://www.dropbox.com/s/bv930usovpruo5e/navrad.lcb?dl=0 >> >>>> >> >>>> Thanks for taking a look! >> >>>> >> >>>> Also I found that after I updated the docs that the docs are >> >>>> generated >> >>> from the lcb file. I re-built the widget and boom my doc changes >> >>> were destroyed. No problem I just had redo the docs for my changes >> >>> in the lcb file. So many unknowns. I am trying to find a way to >> >>> resize it to the card width with a user setting for height percent >> >>> of card width. But the docs are so scant and confusing I feel the >> giant headache coming on again. >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> Ralph DiMola >> >>>> IT Director >> >>>> Evergreen Information Services >> >>>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >> >>>> >> >>>> -----Original Message----- >> >>>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] >> >>>> On >> >>> Behalf Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode >> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2022 3:00 PM >> >>>> To: How to use LiveCode >> >>>> Cc: Mike Kerner >> >>>> Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual >> >>>> >> >>>> Ralph, >> >>>> got the source, somewhere? i'd like to learn from it. >> >>>> testing to begin...now. >> >>>> >> >>>>> On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 1:32 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < >> >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>>> I took a major stab at LCB and created a new widget based on the >> >>>>> navbar widget. I have made 2 changes to the navbar and call it >> navrad. >> >>>>> It does not modify the stock navbar. With almost no docs it was a >> >>>>> challenge. There were so many unknowns I got a few giant >> >>>>> headaches. It adds 4 new >> >>>>> properties(iconFill,autoRADHilite,preHilitedItem, >> >>>>> preHilitedItemName) and 1 new message(preHiliteChanged). I updated >> >>>>> the documentation so the new properties and message show in the >> >>>>> dictionary with example(search for "navrad" or just "rad"). >> >>>>> One thing I ran into was that I had to call the "autohilite" >> >>>>> property autoRADHilite because using any existing property causes >> >>>>> a confilict that I could not get around without sufficient docs. >> >>>>> It does show in the property inspector as "auto hilite". These >> >>>>> changes allow 1)enlarge/center the icon if there is no label >> >>>>> 2)intercept a selection before it is hilited and make a choice to >> >>>>> hilite and send the stock hiliteChanged message (or not). Why no >> >>>>> label? For one social media >> >>> icons dont need labels. Why a pre message? >> >>>>> Someone suggested it and I thought it was a great idea. Backwards >> >>>>> compatible with existing navbar LCS code. The was an auto sizing >> >>>>> to card width request. I will look to see if I can do it without >> >>>>> more >> >>> docs(or help). >> >>>>> >> >>>>> If anyone would like to try it and find any bugs it's at ==> >> >>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/51zm4m8dip49jov/com.livecode.widget.navr >> >>>>> ad.2 >> >>>>> .0.0.lce?dl=0 >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Ralph DiMola >> >>>>> IT Director >> >>>>> Evergreen Information Services >> >>>>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >> >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> >>>>> subscription preferences: >> >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> -- >> >>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the >> >>>> second >> >>> day, God created the oceans. >> >>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and >> >>>> did a little diving. >> >>>> And God said, "This is good." >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> use-livecode mailing list >> >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> >>> subscription preferences: >> >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> use-livecode mailing list >> >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> >>> subscription preferences: >> >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> use-livecode mailing list >> >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> >>> subscription preferences: >> >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second >> >> day, God created the oceans. >> >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> >> and did a little diving. >> >> And God said, "This is good." >> >> >> > >> > >> > -- >> > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second >> > day, God created the oceans. >> > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> > and did a little diving. >> > And God said, "This is good." >> > _______________________________________________ >> > use-livecode mailing list >> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Fri Sep 9 13:46:37 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 19:46:37 +0200 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6AF5BE8C-DC3F-4EA9-8490-BA6DDDD7DD7E@m-r-d.de> If you would extract the .lce file, then you could copy the extracted folder to the extension folder. Von meinem iPhone gesendet > Am 09.09.2022 um 19:05 schrieb Mike Kerner via use-livecode : > > Weird. I thought you could just toss it in the extensions folder. > >> On Fri, Sep 9, 2022 at 10:33 AM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >> Yes, And after the install you will the widget folder in your "My >> LiveCode"==>Extensions folder. It will appear the the tool palette and in >> the inclusions pane of the standalone settings. >> >> Ralph DiMola >> IT Director >> Evergreen Information Services >> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On >> Behalf Of Brian Milby via use-livecode >> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2022 9:54 AM >> To: How to use LiveCode >> Cc: Brian Milby >> Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual >> >> You have to use the IDE to install widgets. >> Tools… Extension Manager… + (icon, top right) >> >> Brian Milby >> brian at milby7.com >> >>> On Sep 9, 2022, at 9:40 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>> Throwing NavRAD into my extensions folder doesn't seem to install it. >>> I wonder why. >>> >>>> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:19 PM Mike Kerner >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> by the way, isn't it crazy how much overhead is required with lcb >> widgets? >>>> there is so...much...stuff you have to put on top just to get to the >>>> heart of the thing. >>>> and i'm never going to like the way lc embeds the comments in the >>>> source of anything. >>>> or the way they spell "favourites", or pronounce "Aluminum". Do you >>>> see an extra "i" in there? No? It's invisible, that's why. >>>> >>>> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:00 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode < >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I think the user is going to need to code the width adjustment in >>>>> the resizeStack handler. Widgets can’t change their rect on their >>>>> own. It has to happen from the LCS side. >>>>> >>>>> Brian Milby >>>>> brian at milby7.com >>>>> >>>>>> On Sep 6, 2022, at 3:29 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Mike, >>>>>> >>>>>> For future reference the source is in the .lce file. The .lce is in >>>>>> zip >>>>> format. Temporarily change the extension to .zip. You will see the >>>>> lcb file in there. Also when you install it the source will be in >>>>> the extension folder. But since I posted .lce I have put in comments >>>>> starting with "RAD Change" to show where I have made changes. Here >>>>> is the link to the updated >>>>> source==>https://www.dropbox.com/s/bv930usovpruo5e/navrad.lcb?dl=0 >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for taking a look! >>>>>> >>>>>> Also I found that after I updated the docs that the docs are >>>>>> generated >>>>> from the lcb file. I re-built the widget and boom my doc changes >>>>> were destroyed. No problem I just had redo the docs for my changes >>>>> in the lcb file. So many unknowns. I am trying to find a way to >>>>> resize it to the card width with a user setting for height percent >>>>> of card width. But the docs are so scant and confusing I feel the >> giant headache coming on again. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Ralph DiMola >>>>>> IT Director >>>>>> Evergreen Information Services >>>>>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] >>>>>> On >>>>> Behalf Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2022 3:00 PM >>>>>> To: How to use LiveCode >>>>>> Cc: Mike Kerner >>>>>> Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual >>>>>> >>>>>> Ralph, >>>>>> got the source, somewhere? i'd like to learn from it. >>>>>> testing to begin...now. >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 1:32 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I took a major stab at LCB and created a new widget based on the >>>>>>> navbar widget. I have made 2 changes to the navbar and call it >> navrad. >>>>>>> It does not modify the stock navbar. With almost no docs it was a >>>>>>> challenge. There were so many unknowns I got a few giant >>>>>>> headaches. It adds 4 new >>>>>>> properties(iconFill,autoRADHilite,preHilitedItem, >>>>>>> preHilitedItemName) and 1 new message(preHiliteChanged). I updated >>>>>>> the documentation so the new properties and message show in the >>>>>>> dictionary with example(search for "navrad" or just "rad"). >>>>>>> One thing I ran into was that I had to call the "autohilite" >>>>>>> property autoRADHilite because using any existing property causes >>>>>>> a confilict that I could not get around without sufficient docs. >>>>>>> It does show in the property inspector as "auto hilite". These >>>>>>> changes allow 1)enlarge/center the icon if there is no label >>>>>>> 2)intercept a selection before it is hilited and make a choice to >>>>>>> hilite and send the stock hiliteChanged message (or not). Why no >>>>>>> label? For one social media >>>>> icons don’t need labels. Why a pre message? >>>>>>> Someone suggested it and I thought it was a great idea. Backwards >>>>>>> compatible with existing navbar LCS code. The was an auto sizing >>>>>>> to card width request. I will look to see if I can do it without >>>>>>> more >>>>> docs(or help). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If anyone would like to try it and find any bugs it's at ==> >>>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/51zm4m8dip49jov/com.livecode.widget.navr >>>>>>> ad.2 >>>>>>> .0.0.lce?dl=0 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ralph DiMola >>>>>>> IT Director >>>>>>> Evergreen Information Services >>>>>>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the >>>>>> second >>>>> day, God created the oceans. >>>>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and >>>>>> did a little diving. >>>>>> And God said, "This is good." >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second >>>> day, God created the oceans. >>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >>>> and did a little diving. >>>> And God said, "This is good." >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second >>> day, God created the oceans. >>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >>> and did a little diving. >>> And God said, "This is good." >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Fri Sep 9 14:08:59 2022 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 14:08:59 -0400 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: <6AF5BE8C-DC3F-4EA9-8490-BA6DDDD7DD7E@m-r-d.de> References: <6AF5BE8C-DC3F-4EA9-8490-BA6DDDD7DD7E@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <002d01d8c477$3f7e1710$be7a4530$@net> The .lce file is in zip format. Change the extension to .zip to easily examine contents. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode Sent: Friday, September 09, 2022 1:47 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Matthias Rebbe Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual If you would extract the .lce file, then you could copy the extracted folder to the extension folder. Von meinem iPhone gesendet > Am 09.09.2022 um 19:05 schrieb Mike Kerner via use-livecode : > > Weird. I thought you could just toss it in the extensions folder. > >> On Fri, Sep 9, 2022 at 10:33 AM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >> Yes, And after the install you will the widget folder in your "My >> LiveCode"==>Extensions folder. It will appear the the tool palette >> and in the inclusions pane of the standalone settings. >> >> Ralph DiMola >> IT Director >> Evergreen Information Services >> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On >> Behalf Of Brian Milby via use-livecode >> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2022 9:54 AM >> To: How to use LiveCode >> Cc: Brian Milby >> Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual >> >> You have to use the IDE to install widgets. >> Tools… Extension Manager… + (icon, top right) >> >> Brian Milby >> brian at milby7.com >> >>> On Sep 9, 2022, at 9:40 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>> Throwing NavRAD into my extensions folder doesn't seem to install it. >>> I wonder why. >>> >>>> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:19 PM Mike Kerner >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> by the way, isn't it crazy how much overhead is required with lcb >> widgets? >>>> there is so...much...stuff you have to put on top just to get to >>>> the heart of the thing. >>>> and i'm never going to like the way lc embeds the comments in the >>>> source of anything. >>>> or the way they spell "favourites", or pronounce "Aluminum". Do you >>>> see an extra "i" in there? No? It's invisible, that's why. >>>> >>>> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:00 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode < >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I think the user is going to need to code the width adjustment in >>>>> the resizeStack handler. Widgets can’t change their rect on their >>>>> own. It has to happen from the LCS side. >>>>> >>>>> Brian Milby >>>>> brian at milby7.com >>>>> >>>>>> On Sep 6, 2022, at 3:29 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Mike, >>>>>> >>>>>> For future reference the source is in the .lce file. The .lce is >>>>>> in zip >>>>> format. Temporarily change the extension to .zip. You will see the >>>>> lcb file in there. Also when you install it the source will be in >>>>> the extension folder. But since I posted .lce I have put in >>>>> comments starting with "RAD Change" to show where I have made >>>>> changes. Here is the link to the updated >>>>> source==>https://www.dropbox.com/s/bv930usovpruo5e/navrad.lcb?dl=0 >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for taking a look! >>>>>> >>>>>> Also I found that after I updated the docs that the docs are >>>>>> generated >>>>> from the lcb file. I re-built the widget and boom my doc changes >>>>> were destroyed. No problem I just had redo the docs for my changes >>>>> in the lcb file. So many unknowns. I am trying to find a way to >>>>> resize it to the card width with a user setting for height percent >>>>> of card width. But the docs are so scant and confusing I feel the >> giant headache coming on again. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Ralph DiMola >>>>>> IT Director >>>>>> Evergreen Information Services >>>>>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] >>>>>> On >>>>> Behalf Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2022 3:00 PM >>>>>> To: How to use LiveCode >>>>>> Cc: Mike Kerner >>>>>> Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual >>>>>> >>>>>> Ralph, >>>>>> got the source, somewhere? i'd like to learn from it. >>>>>> testing to begin...now. >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 1:32 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I took a major stab at LCB and created a new widget based on the >>>>>>> navbar widget. I have made 2 changes to the navbar and call it >> navrad. >>>>>>> It does not modify the stock navbar. With almost no docs it was >>>>>>> a challenge. There were so many unknowns I got a few giant >>>>>>> headaches. It adds 4 new >>>>>>> properties(iconFill,autoRADHilite,preHilitedItem, >>>>>>> preHilitedItemName) and 1 new message(preHiliteChanged). I >>>>>>> updated the documentation so the new properties and message show >>>>>>> in the dictionary with example(search for "navrad" or just "rad"). >>>>>>> One thing I ran into was that I had to call the "autohilite" >>>>>>> property autoRADHilite because using any existing property >>>>>>> causes a confilict that I could not get around without sufficient docs. >>>>>>> It does show in the property inspector as "auto hilite". These >>>>>>> changes allow 1)enlarge/center the icon if there is no label >>>>>>> 2)intercept a selection before it is hilited and make a choice >>>>>>> to hilite and send the stock hiliteChanged message (or not). Why >>>>>>> no label? For one social media >>>>> icons don’t need labels. Why a pre message? >>>>>>> Someone suggested it and I thought it was a great idea. >>>>>>> Backwards compatible with existing navbar LCS code. The was an >>>>>>> auto sizing to card width request. I will look to see if I can >>>>>>> do it without more >>>>> docs(or help). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If anyone would like to try it and find any bugs it's at ==> >>>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/51zm4m8dip49jov/com.livecode.widget.na >>>>>>> vr >>>>>>> ad.2 >>>>>>> .0.0.lce?dl=0 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ralph DiMola >>>>>>> IT Director >>>>>>> Evergreen Information Services >>>>>>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the >>>>>> second >>>>> day, God created the oceans. >>>>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >>>>>> and did a little diving. >>>>>> And God said, "This is good." >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the >>>> second day, God created the oceans. >>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and >>>> did a little diving. >>>> And God said, "This is good." >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the >>> second day, God created the oceans. >>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and >>> did a little diving. >>> And God said, "This is good." >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second > day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From alex at tweedly.net Fri Sep 9 14:41:25 2022 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 19:41:25 +0100 Subject: LC converts phone number to scientific notation In-Reply-To: <5A3E8B94-0B38-4CFE-A9E5-643FA84B80D9@iotecdigital.com> References: <27688A00-CE47-4BEF-AD74-508D26423EA8@tweedly.net> <95A51D94-E599-4026-AC26-7D37C729487A@major-k.de> <5A3E8B94-0B38-4CFE-A9E5-643FA84B80D9@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: No, I just need to learn to not type emails on my iPhone :-) I do it so rarely, I forget to be careful about autocorrect. On 09/09/2022 16:39, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > Someone needs to debug their emails. ;-) > > Bob S > > > On Sep 9, 2022, at 06:32 , Klaus major-k via use-livecode > wrote: > > Put ( & item 9 of globe) onto item 6 of tnewline > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From alex at tweedly.net Fri Sep 9 14:48:27 2022 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 19:48:27 +0100 Subject: LC converts phone number to scientific notation In-Reply-To: References: <74920219-28CD-46EA-825A-61AB3EC0006F@major-k.de> Message-ID: <57e15af1-b6b4-07f5-9b1d-db917d314b34@tweedly.net> No, not all are 2-digits.   USA is one digit, many are 3 digits, none are (yet) 4 digits. A phone number would have a leading zero in many countries; usually indicating it's a non-local number (kind of similar to the leading 1- in long distance in the US, e.g. 1-800-555-1212). In the UK, numbers are, for example, 01x1 ddd nnnn, but a local number will never begin with a 0. Alex. On 09/09/2022 16:38, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > I have a function called formatPhone() I can modify it to support international notation and send it to you. Are all country codes 2 digits? And why would a phone number have a leading 0? > > Bob S > > >> On Sep 9, 2022, at 03:00 , Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Hi friends, >> >> I have a very strange problem, but also found a workaround for it. >> >> I first convert an 8 MB CSV file with 60000 lines to TAB delimited data, then I parse the file >> and just extract some columns from the 60000 lines to display in a field. >> E.g. the column "number dialled", which contains phone number like >> -> 447973100123 >> >> The CSV files are definitively correct but I found that in the resulting field some of these numbers >> appear in scientific notation >> -> 4.47888E+11 >> >> This does not happen with phone numbers with a leading ZERO: like >> -> 07557162491 >> So maybe this a small hint? >> >> However I do not even touch these items I just use: >> ... >> put item 9 of tLine into item 6 of tNewLine >> ## tLine is the line from the CSV and tNewLine is for the data in the display field. >> ... >> >> My simple workaround, no idea why, but it obviously works: >> ... >> put item 9 of tLine into ttt >> put ttt into item 6 of tNewLine >> ... >> This avoids the scientific notation, what the hell is going on here? >> Any hints welcome. >> >> >> Best >> >> Klaus >> -- >> Klaus Major >> https://www.major-k.de >> https://www.major-k.de/bass >> klaus at major-k.de >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri Sep 9 16:54:05 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 16:54:05 -0400 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: <002d01d8c477$3f7e1710$be7a4530$@net> References: <6AF5BE8C-DC3F-4EA9-8490-BA6DDDD7DD7E@m-r-d.de> <002d01d8c477$3f7e1710$be7a4530$@net> Message-ID: Thanks for the help, guys. What about this list for a next-up wishlist?: * I think some of the properties in the PI are extraneous: "selected item name", "pre Hilited item", "pre hilited name", so remove them from the PI * Add borders/margins or offsets, because on mobile, there is furniture, especially on the ipad pros, and especially in ipados 16.x, which cover parts of the nav bar * icon size selection * support embedding raw svg paths * support new icon picker widget From mark at livecode.com Sat Sep 10 02:55:20 2022 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2022 07:55:20 +0100 Subject: LC converts phone number to scientific notation In-Reply-To: References: <74920219-28CD-46EA-825A-61AB3EC0006F@major-k.de> Message-ID: On 2022-09-09 11:40, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > Hi Panos, > >> Am 09.09.2022 um 12:27 schrieb panagiotis m via use-livecode >> : >> >> Hello Klaus, >> >> I guess what happens here is that if you fetch item X of line Y and >> use it >> directly, LC treats it as a number and displays it in scientific >> notation. > > obviously! Panos isn't correct here... None of the code you posted would cause a string to be converted to a number - the engine only does that when you pass a string to something which expects a number (and returns one). Specifically the 'item' chunk is a string chunk - it just manipulates fetches or stores sequences of characters into other sequences of characters. So the problem you are having is elsewhere - and not in the code which reorders the strings of the lines you have imported. It is either happening when you import the data, or when you are displaying it. Indeed, LCS doesn't use scientific notation when converting numbers to strings implicitly - you need to use `format()` to get numbers in that string form. However, LCB *does* use scientific format when converting numbers to strings (currently at least - we've got an item on the todo list to improve that behavior). For example, the variable viewer in the SE is a treeview widget, so if a variable holds a number that will display in scientific notation if it has above a certain number of significant digits. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From gcanyon at gmail.com Sat Sep 10 04:13:09 2022 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2022 01:13:09 -0700 Subject: Stylistic question. In-Reply-To: <38D7510C-9393-4E57-9239-702EE456ACB1@iotecdigital.com> References: <1818ceeb0b0.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <990BFD28-D609-4498-9DF0-A80E605861C4@iotecdigital.com> <87FBDED9-D4FA-4280-AB55-702A7A5DBA09@iotecdigital.com> <6697AA2B-0FD5-46A1-86CF-381113B80A1E@iotecdigital.com> <1E86E371-EF17-4985-BE57-938BA45A2D64@iotecdigital.com> <38D7510C-9393-4E57-9239-702EE456ACB1@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Ah, okay, I think I understand. There's a bit to unpack here: 1. There is no direct communication between Navigator and the LC IDE toolbar. That means that the inspector triggered by the IDE toolbar will reflect whatever is selected. 2. Navigator *only* tries to change the current selection automatically when it is displaying "This Card" of "The Topstack" -- that goes both ways; it only tries to reflect the selection in the IDE when this card and the topstack are displayed. 3. Navigator will try to select controls when Select Objects is selected in the popup menu. 4. It is not always possible to select controls. As I recall, controls in groups can be selected, controls in stacks displaying as palettes or in other modes cannot. I'm not sure about controls on not-currently-displayed cards. 5. Because of (4) and (1), It is not always the case that selecting "Inspector" in the IDE toolbar will open an inspector for whatever is selected in Navigator. 1. Inspector palettes can be locked or unlocked. This is indicated by the small padlock that is, for me at least, the left-most of the right group of icons at the top of the inspector. This is unrelated to Navigator; you can click the lock or unlock the inspector. 2. I don't know the particulars of the lock in the IDE; as far as I know, it always starts out unlocked. 3. If you select "Single Object Inspector" from either the popup menu or the properties menu, Navigator will do its best to select the highlighted objects, and then open the inspector unlocked. The inspector reflects the current selection. So for example, selecting two cards and then "Single Object Inspector" *has* to fail; LiveCode doesn't support selecting two cards at once. Likewise, selecting ar card that is not the current card of the particular stack and then "Single Object Inspector" will also fail, and display the stack. I can't fix this; what to display when the inspector is unlocked is up to the inspector code. The alternative -- Individual Object Inspectors -- *will* work. It opens one copy of the inspector for each control in Navigator's selection, and opens them with the lock closed.This allows the inspector to reflect anything. But it does have the drawback of opening an individual palette for each control. I think I put a warning in if the number of controls is large, with an option to cancel. Then there is the use case where you want to have just one inspector, reflecting a number of controls that might not be "select"-able. As far as I know the IDE palette doesn't support this. Navigator's Property Editor does. It reflects any selected controls in Navigator when it is opened, and can set properties for all of them at once. It can also be opened as a separate palette. In that case it reflects the most recent selection in whichever copy of Navigator you interact with, meaning that if you make a new selection of controls in a different copy of Navigator, that will be reflected in the palette. The Navigator Property Editor is a simple list for speed. It displays only the properties the controls have in common, snd bolds the ones where the obects' properties differ. There's more to the palette, but I don't want to write (more of) a novel. Hopefully this helps. As far as I know Navigator is working properly regarding this use case. Thanks for the feedback! Geoff On Thu, Sep 8, 2022 at 8:38 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Yes that works. What doesn't work is selecting the card in the list, then > clicking the Inspector button in the LC IDE toolbar. It's easier for me to > do that because if I click another object in Navigator, the focus of the > Inspector (Properties Editor) changes to the selected object. If I do the > right-click single object method, sometimes the focus does NOT change, and > I have to do the right-click thungummy again. > > Bob S > > > On Sep 8, 2022, at 24:54 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> > wrote: > > Can you be more specific? I tried selecting the card both in the live > display and the specific card display, and then on the Properties "P" menu > I selected Property Editor, Single Object Inspector, and Individual Object > Inspectors, and it always came up showing the card. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sat Sep 10 12:02:49 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2022 12:02:49 -0400 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <6AF5BE8C-DC3F-4EA9-8490-BA6DDDD7DD7E@m-r-d.de> <002d01d8c477$3f7e1710$be7a4530$@net> Message-ID: Update: * Put it on github because I'm starting to tweak it, too (on the develop branch - Ralph's original version is on the Deploy branch) * Made several properties invisible in the Properties Inspector * on to the next item on the list On Fri, Sep 9, 2022 at 4:54 PM Mike Kerner wrote: > Thanks for the help, guys. > What about this list for a next-up wishlist?: > * I think some of the properties in the PI are extraneous: "selected item > name", "pre Hilited item", "pre hilited name", so remove them from the PI > * Add borders/margins or offsets, because on mobile, there is furniture, > especially on the ipad pros, and especially in ipados 16.x, which cover > parts of the nav bar > * icon size selection > * support embedding raw svg paths > * support new icon picker widget > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From klaus at major-k.de Sat Sep 10 12:48:29 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2022 18:48:29 +0200 Subject: LC converts phone number to scientific notation In-Reply-To: References: <74920219-28CD-46EA-825A-61AB3EC0006F@major-k.de> Message-ID: <5711E451-7A19-4B33-9D7B-CE027BB75DD4@major-k.de> Hi Mark, > Am 10.09.2022 um 08:55 schrieb Mark Waddingham via use-livecode : > > On 2022-09-09 11:40, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >> Hi Panos, >>> Am 09.09.2022 um 12:27 schrieb panagiotis m via use-livecode : >>> Hello Klaus, >>> I guess what happens here is that if you fetch item X of line Y and use it >>> directly, LC treats it as a number and displays it in scientific notation. >> obviously! > > Panos isn't correct here... > None of the code you posted would cause a string to be converted to a number - the engine only does that when you pass a string to something which expects a number (and returns one). > Specifically the 'item' chunk is a string chunk - it just manipulates fetches or stores sequences of characters into other sequences of characters. > So the problem you are having is elsewhere - and not in the code which reorders the strings of the lines you have imported. > It is either happening when you import the data, or when you are displaying it. Well, the imported (dropped) file does not contain these strings then I am only setting the text of a field to the collected lines (tNewLine) after the repeat loop: ... put item 9 of tLine into item 6 of tNewLine ... > Indeed, LCS doesn't use scientific notation when converting numbers to strings implicitly - you need to use `format()` to get numbers in that string form. Hm, the debugger also has this problem and the bug does not seem to be fixed yet: OK, anyway, do you have a hint on how to debug this with my 60000 lines file? I checked the "item 9" (see above) and even "item 6 of tNewLine" after the line above for scientific notation, no dice, I can only see this behavior in the field after I filled in the new data? Will keep on exploring... > However, LCB *does* use scientific format when converting numbers to strings (currently at least - we've got an item on the todo list to improve that behavior). For example, the variable viewer in the SE is a treeview widget, so if a variable holds a number that will display in scientific notation if it has above a certain number of significant digits. Thanks for chiming in! > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > > -- > Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Everyone can create apps Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Sat Sep 10 13:44:12 2022 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2022 13:44:12 -0400 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <6AF5BE8C-DC3F-4EA9-8490-BA6DDDD7DD7E@m-r-d.de> <002d01d8c477$3f7e1710$be7a4530$@net> Message-ID: <000d01d8c53c$f3cc6d00$db654700$@net> I also got rid of the 3 properties. I have a Icon Zoom percent that defaults to 100 % for all icons just about finished. I guess I'll have to understand github. I was hoping to avoid it until I retire. Every time I go to github it's just so confusing just to get something that's there. It's not intuitive at all. It gives me a headache bigger than LCB if that's possible. Is there any place that explains how to use it with some clarity? Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2022 12:03 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Mike Kerner Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual Update: * Put it on github because I'm starting to tweak it, too (on the develop branch - Ralph's original version is on the Deploy branch) * Made several properties invisible in the Properties Inspector * on to the next item on the list On Fri, Sep 9, 2022 at 4:54 PM Mike Kerner wrote: > Thanks for the help, guys. > What about this list for a next-up wishlist?: > * I think some of the properties in the PI are extraneous: "selected > item name", "pre Hilited item", "pre hilited name", so remove them > from the PI > * Add borders/margins or offsets, because on mobile, there is > furniture, especially on the ipad pros, and especially in ipados 16.x, > which cover parts of the nav bar > * icon size selection > * support embedding raw svg paths > * support new icon picker widget > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sat Sep 10 13:53:57 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2022 13:53:57 -0400 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: <000d01d8c53c$f3cc6d00$db654700$@net> References: <6AF5BE8C-DC3F-4EA9-8490-BA6DDDD7DD7E@m-r-d.de> <002d01d8c477$3f7e1710$be7a4530$@net> <000d01d8c53c$f3cc6d00$db654700$@net> Message-ID: tell you what: email me what you do, and i'll email you what i do, and then i'll put it up on the repo, and then you don't have to. On Sat, Sep 10, 2022 at 1:45 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I also got rid of the 3 properties. I have a Icon Zoom percent that > defaults > to 100 % for all icons just about finished. > > I guess I'll have to understand github. I was hoping to avoid it until I > retire. Every time I go to github it's just so confusing just to get > something that's there. It's not intuitive at all. It gives me a headache > bigger than LCB if that's possible. Is there any place that explains how to > use it with some clarity? > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On > Behalf > Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode > Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2022 12:03 PM > To: How to use LiveCode > Cc: Mike Kerner > Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual > > Update: > * Put it on github because I'm starting to tweak it, too (on the develop > branch - Ralph's original version is on the Deploy branch) > * Made several properties invisible in the Properties Inspector > * on to the next item on the list > > On Fri, Sep 9, 2022 at 4:54 PM Mike Kerner > wrote: > > > Thanks for the help, guys. > > What about this list for a next-up wishlist?: > > * I think some of the properties in the PI are extraneous: "selected > > item name", "pre Hilited item", "pre hilited name", so remove them > > from the PI > > * Add borders/margins or offsets, because on mobile, there is > > furniture, especially on the ipad pros, and especially in ipados 16.x, > > which cover parts of the nav bar > > * icon size selection > > * support embedding raw svg paths > > * support new icon picker widget > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, > God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sat Sep 10 13:59:47 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2022 13:59:47 -0400 Subject: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <55236804-6B06-47A8-8ECF-AA548BC9F892@milby7.com> Message-ID: I was trying to work on Ralph's improvements on the navBar and I kept getting bitten by the thin documentation of lcb, so for my own benefit, i started a wiki and issues list to fill in the blanks Please help me learn lcb by adding to both of these. The wiki: https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual/wiki The issues: https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual/issues On Fri, Sep 2, 2022 at 8:42 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 9/2/22 16:54, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote: > > Did a simple test with 819kb json file: > > - JSON Library / LCB 5400 ms > > - PhotonJSON / LCS 400 ms > > - mergJSON / extension 250 ms > > That's impressive. Monte's external is written in C, so that's as close > to bare metal as we're gonna get. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From brian at milby7.com Sat Sep 10 15:35:49 2022 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2022 15:35:49 -0400 Subject: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <659B03EE-86BD-450C-BA9D-FD4859DBC6E5@milby7.com> Honestly the way I learned the most about LCB was working on the LC widgets. There is plenty of example code there but you just have to spend time understanding what you are reading. Brian Milby brian at milby7.com > On Sep 10, 2022, at 2:01 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > I was trying to work on Ralph's improvements on the navBar and I kept > getting bitten by the thin documentation of lcb, so for my own benefit, i > started a wiki and issues list to fill in the blanks > Please help me learn lcb by adding to both of these. > The wiki: https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual/wiki > The issues: https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual/issues > > >> On Fri, Sep 2, 2022 at 8:42 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>> On 9/2/22 16:54, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote: >>> Did a simple test with 819kb json file: >>> - JSON Library / LCB 5400 ms >>> - PhotonJSON / LCS 400 ms >>> - mergJSON / extension 250 ms >> >> That's impressive. Monte's external is written in C, so that's as close >> to bare metal as we're gonna get. >> >> -- >> Mark Wieder >> ahsoftware at gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sat Sep 10 15:47:58 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2022 15:47:58 -0400 Subject: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: <659B03EE-86BD-450C-BA9D-FD4859DBC6E5@milby7.com> References: <659B03EE-86BD-450C-BA9D-FD4859DBC6E5@milby7.com> Message-ID: I was about to call you out, too, Brian. I started trying to work with LCB several years ago, kept slamming into things that weren't documented, and decided I had better things to do with my time. Now I'm back at it, but I don't think it should be such a black hole, especially when I put it down for a couple of months and then want to get back into it. If we want other people to take the plunge, and maybe invent cool stuff using it, something better than what exists, now, should exist. On Sat, Sep 10, 2022 at 3:36 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Honestly the way I learned the most about LCB was working on the LC > widgets. There is plenty of example code there but you just have to spend > time understanding what you are reading. > > Brian Milby > brian at milby7.com > > > On Sep 10, 2022, at 2:01 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > I was trying to work on Ralph's improvements on the navBar and I kept > > getting bitten by the thin documentation of lcb, so for my own benefit, i > > started a wiki and issues list to fill in the blanks > > Please help me learn lcb by adding to both of these. > > The wiki: https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual/wiki > > The issues: https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual/issues > > > > > >> On Fri, Sep 2, 2022 at 8:42 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode < > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> > >>> On 9/2/22 16:54, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote: > >>> Did a simple test with 819kb json file: > >>> - JSON Library / LCB 5400 ms > >>> - PhotonJSON / LCS 400 ms > >>> - mergJSON / extension 250 ms > >> > >> That's impressive. Monte's external is written in C, so that's as close > >> to bare metal as we're gonna get. > >> > >> -- > >> Mark Wieder > >> ahsoftware at gmail.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From brian at milby7.com Sat Sep 10 21:47:31 2022 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2022 21:47:31 -0400 Subject: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <659B03EE-86BD-450C-BA9D-FD4859DBC6E5@milby7.com> Message-ID: I guess I never answered the original question: The editor type isn't a LCB thing. Those are a part of the IDE. Here is the path from the open source repository: .../livecode/ide/Toolset/palettes/inspector/editors/ You should also be able to find them in your local install of LC. /Applications/LiveCode/LiveCode 9.6.9 (rc 1).app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/palettes/inspector/editors/ I agree that they should be documented somewhere. Looking at the names there, most that you would use are probably fairly evident. The LiveCode Builder Style Guide/Widget specific guidelines covers the 4 entries needed to use many of the PI editors. There is one in a widget that could be useful though "user_visible" - this property is not displayed in the PI but is available to get/set. "options" looks to be specific to the "enum" editor. The Extending Livecode Guide covers the 4 that are needed for the widget as a whole. It does look like there are a few additional ones used in widgets that are not mentioned that should be included in the docs (os, svgicon, preferredsize, userVisible, _ide). I tend to be fairly adept at reading and understanding code - even if I don't know the syntax well enough to write it. So I didn't really read the documentation to learn LCB (but referenced the syntax and style guide as needed), but read the widgets that I was working on. As such, the things you are having difficulty finding didn't really impact my efforts. I was mainly extending the widget and was just copying existing code as a model when adding things (properties and handlers). About the only thing that really tripped me up was aliased properties. You have to define the main property and then alias works. If you define the alias, then it doesn't work (TreeView widget - scroll vice vscroll). Considering all of this, I consider all of the included LCB source code as part of the documentation for LCB. I'll add some comments to your "issues" Thanks, Brian On Sat, Sep 10, 2022 at 3:49 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I was about to call you out, too, Brian. > I started trying to work with LCB several years ago, kept slamming into > things that weren't documented, and decided I had better things to do with > my time. > Now I'm back at it, but I don't think it should be such a black hole, > especially when I put it down for a couple of months and then want to get > back into it. > If we want other people to take the plunge, and maybe invent cool stuff > using it, something better than what exists, now, should exist. > > On Sat, Sep 10, 2022 at 3:36 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > Honestly the way I learned the most about LCB was working on the LC > > widgets. There is plenty of example code there but you just have to > spend > > time understanding what you are reading. > > > > Brian Milby > > brian at milby7.com > > > > > On Sep 10, 2022, at 2:01 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > > > I was trying to work on Ralph's improvements on the navBar and I kept > > > getting bitten by the thin documentation of lcb, so for my own > benefit, i > > > started a wiki and issues list to fill in the blanks > > > Please help me learn lcb by adding to both of these. > > > The wiki: https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual/wiki > > > The issues: https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual/issues > > > > > > > > >> On Fri, Sep 2, 2022 at 8:42 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode < > > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > >> > > >>> On 9/2/22 16:54, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote: > > >>> Did a simple test with 819kb json file: > > >>> - JSON Library / LCB 5400 ms > > >>> - PhotonJSON / LCS 400 ms > > >>> - mergJSON / extension 250 ms > > >> > > >> That's impressive. Monte's external is written in C, so that's as > close > > >> to bare metal as we're gonna get. > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Mark Wieder > > >> ahsoftware at gmail.com > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> use-livecode mailing list > > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > >> subscription preferences: > > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > >> > > > > > > > > > -- > > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > > and did a little diving. > > > And God said, "This is good." > > > _______________________________________________ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sun Sep 11 00:39:14 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2022 00:39:14 -0400 Subject: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <659B03EE-86BD-450C-BA9D-FD4859DBC6E5@milby7.com> Message-ID: I emailed this privately to Brian, but I'll include it here for everyone, too. The versions of the LCB manuals that are on LC's website (at least the ones that I was able to find), are dated. The versions that are included embedded in LC are much more complete (though still missing things). Until I was putting the wiki together, I didn't realize they were different. So, until LC updates the version on the site, use the version that's embedded in LC itself. Anyway, Brian, it would be good to either have a "gotchas" page or another wiki pages about aliased properties having to be defined before they are aliased. I think it would be good to add examples to the wiki as well, to make it easier for more people to approach LCB, faster. On Sat, Sep 10, 2022 at 9:48 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I guess I never answered the original question: > > The editor type isn't a LCB thing. Those are a part of the IDE. Here is > the path from the open source repository: > .../livecode/ide/Toolset/palettes/inspector/editors/ > You should also be able to find them in your local install of LC. > /Applications/LiveCode/LiveCode 9.6.9 (rc > 1).app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/palettes/inspector/editors/ > I agree that they should be documented somewhere. Looking at the names > there, most that you would use are probably fairly evident. > > The LiveCode Builder Style Guide/Widget specific guidelines covers the 4 > entries needed to use many of the PI editors. There is one in a widget > that could be useful though "user_visible" - this property is not displayed > in the PI but is available to get/set. "options" looks to be specific to > the "enum" editor. > > The Extending Livecode Guide covers the 4 that are needed for the widget as > a whole. It does look like there are a few additional ones used in widgets > that are not mentioned that should be included in the docs (os, svgicon, > preferredsize, userVisible, _ide). > > I tend to be fairly adept at reading and understanding code - even if I > don't know the syntax well enough to write it. So I didn't really read the > documentation to learn LCB (but referenced the syntax and style guide as > needed), but read the widgets that I was working on. As such, the things > you are having difficulty finding didn't really impact my efforts. I was > mainly extending the widget and was just copying existing code as a model > when adding things (properties and handlers). About the only thing that > really tripped me up was aliased properties. You have to define the main > property and then alias works. If you define the alias, then it doesn't > work (TreeView widget - scroll vice vscroll). Considering all of this, I > consider all of the included LCB source code as part of the documentation > for LCB. > > I'll add some comments to your "issues" > > Thanks, > Brian > > > On Sat, Sep 10, 2022 at 3:49 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > I was about to call you out, too, Brian. > > I started trying to work with LCB several years ago, kept slamming into > > things that weren't documented, and decided I had better things to do > with > > my time. > > Now I'm back at it, but I don't think it should be such a black hole, > > especially when I put it down for a couple of months and then want to get > > back into it. > > If we want other people to take the plunge, and maybe invent cool stuff > > using it, something better than what exists, now, should exist. > > > > On Sat, Sep 10, 2022 at 3:36 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > > Honestly the way I learned the most about LCB was working on the LC > > > widgets. There is plenty of example code there but you just have to > > spend > > > time understanding what you are reading. > > > > > > Brian Milby > > > brian at milby7.com > > > > > > > On Sep 10, 2022, at 2:01 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > I was trying to work on Ralph's improvements on the navBar and I > kept > > > > getting bitten by the thin documentation of lcb, so for my own > > benefit, i > > > > started a wiki and issues list to fill in the blanks > > > > Please help me learn lcb by adding to both of these. > > > > The wiki: https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual/wiki > > > > The issues: https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual/issues > > > > > > > > > > > >> On Fri, Sep 2, 2022 at 8:42 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode < > > > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> On 9/2/22 16:54, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote: > > > >>> Did a simple test with 819kb json file: > > > >>> - JSON Library / LCB 5400 ms > > > >>> - PhotonJSON / LCS 400 ms > > > >>> - mergJSON / extension 250 ms > > > >> > > > >> That's impressive. Monte's external is written in C, so that's as > > close > > > >> to bare metal as we're gonna get. > > > >> > > > >> -- > > > >> Mark Wieder > > > >> ahsoftware at gmail.com > > > >> > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> use-livecode mailing list > > > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > >> subscription preferences: > > > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > > > and did a little diving. > > > > And God said, "This is good." > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > subscription preferences: > > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sun Sep 11 11:20:40 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2022 11:20:40 -0400 Subject: Livecode Builder -how t write to a file? In-Reply-To: <5E7A5A08-0B06-46D4-8A97-74F057C834D5@m-r-d.de> References: <9D894134-797F-4426-9FF1-9DEFAC1E1FC8@m-r-d.de> <5E7A5A08-0B06-46D4-8A97-74F057C834D5@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: Try execute script that throws you over the wall into LCS On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 6:46 PM matthias rebbe via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Thanks Zryip, > > i think that is a good workaround. ;) > > Thanks. > > Regards, > Matthias > > > > Am 22.08.2022 um 00:38 schrieb zryip theSlug via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: > > > > Dear Matthias, > > > > I do not have the answer but a possible workaround. > > > > For debugging purposes I'm using the post message. > > > > In LCB add this handler: > > private handler throwWidgetError(in pError as String) returns nothing > > post "catchWidgetError" with [pError] > > end handler > > > > Call it by using: > > throwWidgetError("Something to log") > > > > And catch it by adding this handler into the card script where you test > > your widget: > > > > *command* catchWidgetError pTheError > > * put* pTheError & cr after msg > > *end* catchWidgetError > > > > This might be verbose as the message box will take the focus, and the > > widget will refresh, so logging in a file instead of the message box > would > > be a possibility. > > > > *command* catchWidgetError pTheError > > * write *pTheError to file "xxx" > > *end* catchWidgetError > > > > On Sun, 21 Aug 2022 at 20:59, matthias rebbe via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > >> Hi. > >> > >> From time to time and when time allows i am trying to get used to with > >> Livecode Builder. > >> For debugging i would like my lcb script to write some debug code to a > >> file, but i really do not see how this can be done. > >> I found the experimental com.livecode.file module and the operator 'the > >> filecontents of file...', but unfortunately no script example. > >> > >> Does anyone know, if and how i can write some data to an external file > on > >> hard disk in LCB? > >> > >> > >> Regards, > >> Matthias > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > > > > > -- > > Zryip TheSlug > > http://www.aslugontheroad.com > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From kee.nethery at elloco.com Sun Sep 11 17:32:04 2022 From: kee.nethery at elloco.com (kee nethery) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2022 14:32:04 -0700 Subject: LC converts phone number to scientific notation In-Reply-To: <74920219-28CD-46EA-825A-61AB3EC0006F@major-k.de> References: <74920219-28CD-46EA-825A-61AB3EC0006F@major-k.de> Message-ID: <05D90C92-D36F-489D-8F94-115BACF12EB4@elloco.com> I had the same problem with long integer numbers being imported into a spreadsheet. My solution was to append “a” to the numbers before they got imported into the spreadsheet. Kee Nethery > On Sep 9, 2022, at 3:00 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi friends, > > I have a very strange problem, but also found a workaround for it. > > I first convert an 8 MB CSV file with 60000 lines to TAB delimited data, then I parse the file > and just extract some columns from the 60000 lines to display in a field. > E.g. the column "number dialled", which contains phone number like > -> 447973100123 > > The CSV files are definitively correct but I found that in the resulting field some of these numbers > appear in scientific notation > -> 4.47888E+11 > > This does not happen with phone numbers with a leading ZERO: like > -> 07557162491 > So maybe this a small hint? > > However I do not even touch these items I just use: > ... > put item 9 of tLine into item 6 of tNewLine > ## tLine is the line from the CSV and tNewLine is for the data in the display field. > ... > > My simple workaround, no idea why, but it obviously works: > ... > put item 9 of tLine into ttt > put ttt into item 6 of tNewLine > ... > This avoids the scientific notation, what the hell is going on here? > Any hints welcome. > > > Best > > Klaus > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > https://www.major-k.de/bass > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sun Sep 11 19:44:50 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2022 19:44:50 -0400 Subject: Livecode Builder -how t write to a file? In-Reply-To: References: <9D894134-797F-4426-9FF1-9DEFAC1E1FC8@m-r-d.de> <5E7A5A08-0B06-46D4-8A97-74F057C834D5@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: >From Brian, answering the same question on the LCB Missing Manual repo "See the contents of file File in the LCB dictionary. The actual name is FileContents" On Sun, Sep 11, 2022 at 11:20 AM Mike Kerner wrote: > Try execute script > that throws you over the wall into LCS > > > On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 6:46 PM matthias rebbe via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Thanks Zryip, >> >> i think that is a good workaround. ;) >> >> Thanks. >> >> Regards, >> Matthias >> >> >> > Am 22.08.2022 um 00:38 schrieb zryip theSlug via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: >> > >> > Dear Matthias, >> > >> > I do not have the answer but a possible workaround. >> > >> > For debugging purposes I'm using the post message. >> > >> > In LCB add this handler: >> > private handler throwWidgetError(in pError as String) returns nothing >> > post "catchWidgetError" with [pError] >> > end handler >> > >> > Call it by using: >> > throwWidgetError("Something to log") >> > >> > And catch it by adding this handler into the card script where you test >> > your widget: >> > >> > *command* catchWidgetError pTheError >> > * put* pTheError & cr after msg >> > *end* catchWidgetError >> > >> > This might be verbose as the message box will take the focus, and the >> > widget will refresh, so logging in a file instead of the message box >> would >> > be a possibility. >> > >> > *command* catchWidgetError pTheError >> > * write *pTheError to file "xxx" >> > *end* catchWidgetError >> > >> > On Sun, 21 Aug 2022 at 20:59, matthias rebbe via use-livecode < >> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> > >> >> Hi. >> >> >> >> From time to time and when time allows i am trying to get used to with >> >> Livecode Builder. >> >> For debugging i would like my lcb script to write some debug code to a >> >> file, but i really do not see how this can be done. >> >> I found the experimental com.livecode.file module and the operator 'the >> >> filecontents of file...', but unfortunately no script example. >> >> >> >> Does anyone know, if and how i can write some data to an external file >> on >> >> hard disk in LCB? >> >> >> >> >> >> Regards, >> >> Matthias >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> use-livecode mailing list >> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> >> subscription preferences: >> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Zryip TheSlug >> > http://www.aslugontheroad.com >> > _______________________________________________ >> > use-livecode mailing list >> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sun Sep 11 23:21:00 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2022 23:21:00 -0400 Subject: Livecode Builder -how t write to a file? In-Reply-To: References: <9D894134-797F-4426-9FF1-9DEFAC1E1FC8@m-r-d.de> <5E7A5A08-0B06-46D4-8A97-74F057C834D5@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: one other note on execute script, if you choose to go that route: you cannot use it until the OnLoad() and OnCreate() events achieve. On Sun, Sep 11, 2022 at 7:44 PM Mike Kerner wrote: > From Brian, answering the same question on the LCB Missing Manual repo > "See the contents of file File in the LCB dictionary. The actual name is > FileContents" > > On Sun, Sep 11, 2022 at 11:20 AM Mike Kerner > wrote: > >> Try execute script >> that throws you over the wall into LCS >> >> >> On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 6:46 PM matthias rebbe via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>> Thanks Zryip, >>> >>> i think that is a good workaround. ;) >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Matthias >>> >>> >>> > Am 22.08.2022 um 00:38 schrieb zryip theSlug via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: >>> > >>> > Dear Matthias, >>> > >>> > I do not have the answer but a possible workaround. >>> > >>> > For debugging purposes I'm using the post message. >>> > >>> > In LCB add this handler: >>> > private handler throwWidgetError(in pError as String) returns nothing >>> > post "catchWidgetError" with [pError] >>> > end handler >>> > >>> > Call it by using: >>> > throwWidgetError("Something to log") >>> > >>> > And catch it by adding this handler into the card script where you test >>> > your widget: >>> > >>> > *command* catchWidgetError pTheError >>> > * put* pTheError & cr after msg >>> > *end* catchWidgetError >>> > >>> > This might be verbose as the message box will take the focus, and the >>> > widget will refresh, so logging in a file instead of the message box >>> would >>> > be a possibility. >>> > >>> > *command* catchWidgetError pTheError >>> > * write *pTheError to file "xxx" >>> > *end* catchWidgetError >>> > >>> > On Sun, 21 Aug 2022 at 20:59, matthias rebbe via use-livecode < >>> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> > >>> >> Hi. >>> >> >>> >> From time to time and when time allows i am trying to get used to with >>> >> Livecode Builder. >>> >> For debugging i would like my lcb script to write some debug code to a >>> >> file, but i really do not see how this can be done. >>> >> I found the experimental com.livecode.file module and the operator >>> 'the >>> >> filecontents of file...', but unfortunately no script example. >>> >> >>> >> Does anyone know, if and how i can write some data to an external >>> file on >>> >> hard disk in LCB? >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Regards, >>> >> Matthias >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> use-livecode mailing list >>> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> >> subscription preferences: >>> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > Zryip TheSlug >>> > http://www.aslugontheroad.com >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > use-livecode mailing list >>> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> >> -- >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >> On the second day, God created the oceans. >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> and did a little diving. >> And God said, "This is good." >> > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From paul at livecode.org Sun Sep 11 23:29:59 2022 From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2022 20:29:59 -0700 Subject: Sort Ascending DateTime - failure Message-ID: <316E4EFB-AF90-42FB-B40E-A8B4091C2FF6@livecode.org> While playing around with the PolyGrid, I wanted to try adding sorting options by clicking the PolyGrid Header Labels. The solution I came up with drove me nuts until I discovered that there appears to be an issue associated with the sort command and dateTime. According to the dictionary, text can be sorted by dateTime, and the entry for dateTime states… "The dateTime keyword recognizes all LiveCode's date and time formats and sorts them in time order, rather than alphabetical or numeric order." Date Formats: the [{ long | abbreviated | short }] [{ english | system }] date …So I was expecting to be able to sort the PolyGrid by the dates as entered, because they are set to the same format as the system date on my Mac, however, sorting by dateTime fails (on my Mac) when the system is set to use dashes as date separators. e.g.: 11-09-2022, it works fine with any other format. e.g.: 11/09/2022 I know that I can work around this fairly easily, but I see this as a bug. Before I report it, I figured it would be best to ask here if anyone else has come across this, or am I missing something? Seems like this should have been caught a long time ago. macOS Monterey Version 12.5.1 LiveCode 9.6.8 & 10.0.0 (dp 4) Paul From paul at livecode.org Sun Sep 11 23:55:35 2022 From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2022 20:55:35 -0700 Subject: Sort Ascending DateTime - failure In-Reply-To: <316E4EFB-AF90-42FB-B40E-A8B4091C2FF6@livecode.org> References: <316E4EFB-AF90-42FB-B40E-A8B4091C2FF6@livecode.org> Message-ID: Should have waited to send this, on further investigation, I found the useSystemDate property, now all is well. Sorry for the noise! > On 11Sep, 2022, at 8:29 PM, Paul Hibbert via use-livecode wrote: > > While playing around with the PolyGrid, I wanted to try adding sorting options by clicking the PolyGrid Header Labels. The solution I came up with drove me nuts until I discovered that there appears to be an issue associated with the sort command and dateTime. > > According to the dictionary, text can be sorted by dateTime, and the entry for dateTime states… > > "The dateTime keyword recognizes all LiveCode's date and time formats and sorts them in time order, rather than alphabetical or numeric order." > > Date Formats: > > the [{ long | abbreviated | short }] [{ english | system }] date > > …So I was expecting to be able to sort the PolyGrid by the dates as entered, because they are set to the same format as the system date on my Mac, however, sorting by dateTime fails (on my Mac) when the system is set to use dashes as date separators. e.g.: 11-09-2022, it works fine with any other format. e.g.: 11/09/2022 > > I know that I can work around this fairly easily, but I see this as a bug. Before I report it, I figured it would be best to ask here if anyone else has come across this, or am I missing something? Seems like this should have been caught a long time ago. > > macOS Monterey > Version 12.5.1 > LiveCode 9.6.8 & 10.0.0 (dp 4) > > Paul > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Mon Sep 12 01:24:57 2022 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2022 15:24:57 +1000 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance Message-ID: <5849A832-9EC5-4815-91DB-82376B2A7C7A@optusnet.com.au> I have enough datapoints to report some findings from my comparison of the appearance of fonts across platforms, in particular on the length of strings in fields and text baselines, and to correct some of my previous statements. My intention is to compile a database for some 7000+ fonts in 7 different font sizes ranging from 9pt to 18pt on Mac Windows and Linux system; but for now (for reasons given below) I looked at four basic fonts in common use: Arial, Times New Roman, Noto Sans and Noto Serif. The good news is that the horrible problem of different strings lengths is no longer a problem, as long as your target platforms are just Mac or Windows 10. For each of these four fonts, strings in (right or left justified) fields have the same rendered length (they differ between fonts of course). I would be confident that holds for all TrueType fonts installed on these platforms, starting from the advent of Windows 10. My former claim about a difference between High Sierra and Monterey on the Mac is incorrect, the result of a coding error. Of course the field or stack must have a font assigned: leaving the font to empty will result in the system using its own font, which will be consistent with the look-and-feel of the platform/system version, but which will certainly be quite different between platforms. On LInux (Ubuntu 18.x) however, string lengths for all the fonts in all sizes are quite different, sometimes longer and sometimes shorter than on the other platforms. The biggest difference was for Noto Sans 9pt, the sample Linux string being 14% longer; this was an outlier, mostly the Linux strings were less than 8% longer. In the other directions was Arial 15pt, where Linux was 5% shorter. So if Linux is a target platform, allow some extra length for your fields (on the right for a left justified field, on the left for a right justified label). A more difficult problem is the vertical placement of text. With the default settings for fields, strings in Windows will typically appear 2 or 3 pixels lower than on a Mac, which can mess with your layout — text carefully positioned on one platform will appear too close to nearby objects on the other, or will not align with text in adjacent fields. This can be fixed by adjusting the topMargin of the field, but the details are not straightforward.. The baseline for rendered strings is determined by the font metrics and the font size; unfortunately Mac Windows and Linux all use different metrics from each other. It would be nice if LC had a function which returned the baseline for the rendered string, but I couldn’t find such a function. The closest formula I can get is (for text using the textFont and textSize of the owner field, and consigning to oblivion the formula I had previously proposed which was caused by the aforementioned error plus a glitch in the data processing unit, ie my brain.) first baseline relative to the top of the field = the topMargin of the field + fontAscent - 6 where fontAscent = - (item 2 of measureText(fld ,fld ,”bounds”) Why the magic number -6? It seems this places text in a common font such as Time New Roman or Arial in medium range textSizes such as 11 to 15 so that the top of the lower case character “x” is at ...approximately... the topMargin of the field. This would be the ideal placement for text at all fonts and sizes, but of course in general 6 is nothing like the difference between the fontAscent (the height of the capital “A” above the baseline) and the height of “x”, and anyway the fontAscent is not the actual height of the font, so for other sizes and fonts the placement is wildly different from the ideal. The simplification is probably a legacy of a decision originally made for speed given the complications of dealing with different font formats; a correction now would break all existing stacks. Actually while my formula fits precisely most of the time, it occasionally is out by 1 pixel. And that precision holds for all fonts I have looked at, even for the gorgeously extravagant Zapfino at 64pt. So the discrepancy is probably some floating point rounding from the correct formula. If anyone (LC engineer’s?) can provide the correct formula that would be nice, but I have the feeling it may involve a font metric not directly exposed by the LC api. The formula can be used to adjust the topMargin so that the baseline is fixed, to within 1 pixel anyway The adjustment would have to be done at runtime, or applied to a stack before building a standalone for a particular platform, using a pre-cooked fontAscent. Hence my database project. Just at the moment this has hit a bit of snag: as far as I can see, fonts have to be added to Windows 10 one at a time -- on a Mac you just dump a folder of fonts onto Font Book. Does anyone know how to do this in Windows and Linux? If necessary, following Ralph’s post I believe I could work out where the Mac and Windows 10 systems pick up their ascent parameters by parsing the ttf metadata (horrors!), but the Linux values are another mystery. The apparently obvious solution to the problem is to set fixedLineHeight to true, but unfortunately this does not work. The bottom of each character glyph will I guess be placed on a fixed line independently of the font, size or platform, but that is not the baseline, which will still be dependent on font metrics. The result is that even with fixedLineHeight true baselines are different for different sizes of a given font, and for different fonts for a given size even on the same platform (so adjacent fields with different fonts or sizes will not align baselines), and also different for a given font and size on different platforms so the layout looks sloppy. My formula for the first baseline for a field with fixed line height is baseline = the topMargin of the field + the textHeight of the field - item 2 of measureText(the field,the text,"size”) + fontAscent - 7 which again seems to be accurate except for a few (different!) cases where it is 1 pixel out. Again, if anyone knows the exact formula I would be grateful to hear it. Possibly an enhancement to LC could provide a fixedBaseline,baseline pair of properties for fields, which would set the first baseline at a user value, bleeding the text into the top margin, thus eliminating this problem. Neville From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Sep 12 22:51:46 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2022 19:51:46 -0700 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: <5849A832-9EC5-4815-91DB-82376B2A7C7A@optusnet.com.au> References: <5849A832-9EC5-4815-91DB-82376B2A7C7A@optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: This discussion has been very interesting to me. The team worked hard in v9 to deliver font management in a way that makes it easier than ever to deliver apps that meet user expectations and OS design specs on the platforms deployed to. Mac looks like Mac, Win looks like Win, all with one font setting. I used to have to work really hard with all sorts of workarounds to get that platform-savvy look, and now with the team's efforts with v9 it's a snap. Of course we all use the web, and I used to subscribe to CD-ROM publications that deliver textual content for multiple platforms. So I see the value in getting heading and body content in text-focused content-driven apps to look reasonably on-brand across platforms. But in all my native and web dev reading over the decades I don't think I've seen this much effort expended toward attempting to get near-perfect parity for text appearance across platforms (except for prepress, but that's another era). But I know you folks. You wouldn't put in this kind of effort if it wasn't useful. So help me understand: what are you working on where a user expects fine-grained font rendering consistency on multiple OSes? What do these apps do? Do your users switch OSes during a session, or work on Windows by day and Mac at night? How many also use Linux in that multi-OS workflow? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Sep 13 11:11:37 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2022 15:11:37 +0000 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: References: <5849A832-9EC5-4815-91DB-82376B2A7C7A@optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <45096339-7BFC-4AF4-9412-E2895F394B3F@iotecdigital.com> For me it's simple. I want the same baseline and alignment on two platforms I work with, MacOS and Windows, when using an embedded font. My particular issue is I think a bug and I am reminded to send Panos a sample stack demonstrating the issue. EXACT PRECICE EQUIVALENCE of font appearance is not my goal, and I don't think can ever be accomplished, due to the reasons cited before. I just want a label that has the width and height auto fitted on a Mac to not be cut off on Windows. Perhaps what would be useful is if there was an Autofit property for fields that would adjust the width and height of a field, instead of having to manually do it. Otherwise I can do it programmatically. Bob S On Sep 12, 2022, at 19:51 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode > wrote: This discussion has been very interesting to me. The team worked hard in v9 to deliver font management in a way that makes it easier than ever to deliver apps that meet user expectations and OS design specs on the platforms deployed to. Mac looks like Mac, Win looks like Win, all with one font setting. I used to have to work really hard with all sorts of workarounds to get that platform-savvy look, and now with the team's efforts with v9 it's a snap. Of course we all use the web, and I used to subscribe to CD-ROM publications that deliver textual content for multiple platforms. So I see the value in getting heading and body content in text-focused content-driven apps to look reasonably on-brand across platforms. But in all my native and web dev reading over the decades I don't think I've seen this much effort expended toward attempting to get near-perfect parity for text appearance across platforms (except for prepress, but that's another era). But I know you folks. You wouldn't put in this kind of effort if it wasn't useful. So help me understand: what are you working on where a user expects fine-grained font rendering consistency on multiple OSes? What do these apps do? Do your users switch OSes during a session, or work on Windows by day and Mac at night? How many also use Linux in that multi-OS workflow? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Sep 13 14:40:22 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2022 11:40:22 -0700 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: <45096339-7BFC-4AF4-9412-E2895F394B3F@iotecdigital.com> References: <45096339-7BFC-4AF4-9412-E2895F394B3F@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <159d6042-c467-2198-26e7-024d83eb6a51@fourthworld.com> Bob Sneidar wrote: > On Sep 12, 2022, at 19:51 , Richard Gaskin wrote: >> The team worked hard in v9 to deliver font management in a way that >> makes it easier than ever to deliver apps that meet user expectations >> and OS design specs on the platforms deployed to. Mac looks like >> Mac, Win looks like Win, all with one font setting. >>... >> So help me understand: what are you working on where a user expects >> fine-grained font rendering consistency on multiple OSes? What do >> these apps do? >> >> Do your users switch OSes during a session, or work on Windows by day >> and Mac at night? How many also use Linux in that multi-OS workflow? > > > For me it's simple. I want the same baseline and alignment on two > platforms I work with, MacOS and Windows, when using an embedded font. > ...I just want a label that has the width and height auto fitted on a > Mac to not be cut off on Windows. Thanks. I can see that, esp. since the HIGs for Mac and Win specify different font sizes. I've been including a little extra space to allow for that, and with alignment set well (left-aligned for full-row headers, right-aligned per HIG for form field labels) it's been working well enough. But this suggestion may help with some layouts: > Perhaps what would be useful is if there was an Autofit property for > fields that would adjust the width and height of a field, instead of > having to manually do it. Otherwise I can do it programmatically. It would be more convenient to have a property to set the width to the formattedWidth, but it raises another question: what do you do with the space saved? That is, if the layout it too tight to allow some extra space in a label field to accommodate the different HIG specs for each platform, when a field is automatically readjusted as proposed then wouldn't you also need to adjust surrounding controls to take advantage of the change? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Sep 13 15:02:44 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2022 19:02:44 +0000 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: <159d6042-c467-2198-26e7-024d83eb6a51@fourthworld.com> References: <45096339-7BFC-4AF4-9412-E2895F394B3F@iotecdigital.com> <159d6042-c467-2198-26e7-024d83eb6a51@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <694AF1EF-E50E-49D7-A1CD-D191E8902669@iotecdigital.com> I already leave a bit of air around my controls. Something I learned from a design guy years ago. Bob S On Sep 13, 2022, at 11:40 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode > wrote: > Perhaps what would be useful is if there was an Autofit property for > fields that would adjust the width and height of a field, instead of > having to manually do it. Otherwise I can do it programmatically. It would be more convenient to have a property to set the width to the formattedWidth, but it raises another question: what do you do with the space saved? That is, if the layout it too tight to allow some extra space in a label field to accommodate the different HIG specs for each platform, when a field is automatically readjusted as proposed then wouldn't you also need to adjust surrounding controls to take advantage of the change? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems From alex at tweedly.net Tue Sep 13 16:00:54 2022 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2022 21:00:54 +0100 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: References: <5849A832-9EC5-4815-91DB-82376B2A7C7A@optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: On 13/09/2022 03:51, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > So help me understand: what are you working on where a user expects > fine-grained font rendering consistency on multiple OSes? What do > these apps do? > One example that (almost) applied for me was where the target display is not an OS, and indeed the viewer doesn't think they are looking at a 'computer', e.g. an information display in a museum. I started doing something like this for a local organisation, but their funding never materialized. But while talking about it, they had no idea whether they'd use Macs or PCs or most likely both, and  they expected it to look the same regardless, and they wanted the content creator (who would typically only have one of the platforms to try it out on) to be able to get a good idea of how things would look. Alex. From cubist at aol.com Tue Sep 13 20:14:30 2022 From: cubist at aol.com (Quentin Long) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 00:14:30 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Standardize Font Appearance References: <659535550.1842732.1663114470856.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <659535550.1842732.1663114470856@mail.yahoo.com> sez Richard Gaskin: > So help me understand: what are you working on where a user expects > fine-grained font rendering consistency on multiple OSes? What do these > apps do?> > Do your users switch OSes during a session, or work on Windows by day > and Mac at night?  How many also use Linux in that multi-OS workflow? For me, it was mostly a matter of two questions. First: Wouldn't it be nice *if* we could somehow do stuff with fonts and just have them *be* identical cross-platform? My answer: Yes, that *is* technically possible— Second: Exactly how big of a hassle *would* it be to Just Have Fonts Identical Cross-Platform? My answer: —but good god, it's *so* much of a fucking PITA that I can't imagine why anyone would *bother*. I'm rather an odd duck, in that I don't write code for a living; I don't even have any financial interests which are dependent on my being able to whip up code on schedule/deadline. So I suspect I may have summat more freedom to fart around and experiment than do the *real* code jockeys hereabouts. As well, the only user *I* have to worry about is *me*, which renders lots of issues, er, *non*-issues, as far as I'm concerned. "Bewitched" + "Charlie's Angels" - Charlie = "At Arm's Length"Read the webcomic at [ http://www.atarmslength.net ]!If you like "At Arm's Length", support it at [ http://www.patreon.com/DarkwingDude ]. From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Tue Sep 13 22:19:12 2022 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 12:19:12 +1000 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance Message-ID: I agree Richard text management is a lot better than it used to be but problems remain. Text strings on Windows standalones used to be longer than on Mac. It was a painful process to find a label which had been clipped in Windows, fix it in the Mac IDE, compile, copy to a Windows box, only to find another label that hadn’t been supplied with enough padding so back the drawing board. If you were developing on Windows you didn’t see this problem, since Mac strings were shorter. I am pretty sure this problem has gone away, strings rendered in a TrueType font on Mac and Windows now have the same length. [Was this really a fix in LC, or a change in the Windows 10 font engine? If the LC team did it I am lost in admiration, a fantastic piece of work! I thought LC just left it to the operating system to draw the text.] On Linux however the problem remains, strings can be longer or shorter than on the other platforms. Vertical placement is the remaining problem: strings in Windows typically appear 2 or 3 pixels below the Mac equivalent. Mostly this is a trivial problem. But it can cause havoc if your interface has closely packed items. I offer the following fable as a demonstration. I am working on a Mac, designing an app for deployment on Mac and Windows. I select a stock-standard label object, drawn as a box with a border thickness 1 pixel. If I leave the default font to (Message) then the fonts used will be different on the two platforms, and I don’t want that. I have a fondness for smallish 12pt labels and Times New Roman font. Shouldn’t be a problem since Times New Roman exists on Windows (not on Linux of course). They won’t look *exactly* the same because the device resolutions and antaliasing algorithms are different etc, but only a perfectionist would care, and I know the text won’t be clipped because the lengths are same (not on Linux of course, even if I instal Time New Roman) Hmm, the text, which was nicely vertically centered in its box, has moved up a bit, I wonder why? Easily fixed, just set the top margin to 9, yes that is just right. Now I need a text field next to my label, with the baseline of the text aligned with the label text. But the font for this field has to be different, say Arial 36pt (Arial is course is installed on Windows. Not on Linux of course.). Gee, the text which was pretty much aligned is now way out of kilter. There is no IDE command to align text, but easily fixed, just move the field up a bit. Finally I want to draw a red line just under the two text strings, at the point where LC would draw text baselines. You can see screen grabs of the resulting Mac and Windows standalones at https://www.dropbox.com/s/v2hzwe159ep6nep/My%20beautiful%20app%20on%20Mac.png?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/wr2limdozwob9v7/My%20beautiful%20app%20on%20Windows.png?dl=0 Or you can read the reviews from the influential Good Design Now!!!!! magazine Mac review: Everything looks fine. Simple, boring interface. -1 for the retro box and -1 for mixing fonts. 3 stars. Windows review: Wow! Quirky unbalanced placing of the label in its box. Fashionable haphazard alignment of text. And an ultramodern red line slashing through the text. An (unintended) brilliancy. 5 stars. (But if that red line had been a more substantial object, text would have been clipped, 0 stars.) Neville From bobcole at earthlink.net Wed Sep 14 09:50:01 2022 From: bobcole at earthlink.net (Bob Cole) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 09:50:01 -0400 Subject: System Time Zone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3BBFBB65-523B-457D-8555-D63F161443BE@earthlink.net> Just for the sake of completeness, there is a way to get the time zone with AppleScript but it requires Administrator Privileges. The MacOS pops up a request to allow the “do as AppleScript” script to access the systemsetup function. That manual step will interfere with the flow of the program. Create a field “Statements” with this AppleScript: do shell script "/usr/sbin/systemsetup -gettimezone" with administrator privileges and put the following code in the script of a button: on mouseUp do field "Statements" as "AppleScript" put the result into tResult set the itemDelimiter to space delete word 1 to 2 in tResult delete the last char of tResult put tResult into message box end request Tested in two time zones with these results: America/Chicago America/New_York Bob > It's the, "America/Los_Angeles" bit I am trying to find a way to grok. From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Sep 14 11:09:00 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 17:09:00 +0200 Subject: System Time Zone In-Reply-To: <3BBFBB65-523B-457D-8555-D63F161443BE@earthlink.net> References: <3BBFBB65-523B-457D-8555-D63F161443BE@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <0A7567C7-6EF4-449A-B002-5B402377583F@m-r-d.de> Does your app has preferences the user can enter? Why not allow him to enter also the sudo password? You could then use that to execute the following shell command: put shell("echo | sudo -S /usr/sbin/systemsetup -gettimezone") replace with the password in preferences. No need to use Applescript. Regards, Matthias > Am 14.09.2022 um 15:50 schrieb Bob Cole via use-livecode : > > Just for the sake of completeness, there is a way to get the time zone with AppleScript but it requires Administrator Privileges. The MacOS pops up a request to allow the “do as AppleScript” script to access the systemsetup function. That manual step will interfere with the flow of the program. > > Create a field “Statements” with this AppleScript: > > do shell script "/usr/sbin/systemsetup -gettimezone" with administrator privileges > > and put the following code in the script of a button: > > on mouseUp > do field "Statements" as "AppleScript" > put the result into tResult > set the itemDelimiter to space > delete word 1 to 2 in tResult > delete the last char of tResult > put tResult into message box > end request > > Tested in two time zones with these results: > America/Chicago > America/New_York > > Bob > >> It's the, "America/Los_Angeles" bit I am trying to find a way to grok. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Sep 14 11:21:16 2022 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 18:21:16 +0300 Subject: System Time Zone In-Reply-To: <0A7567C7-6EF4-449A-B002-5B402377583F@m-r-d.de> References: <3BBFBB65-523B-457D-8555-D63F161443BE@earthlink.net> <0A7567C7-6EF4-449A-B002-5B402377583F@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <38deebe3-492f-7377-2f52-2c9b16411820@gmail.com> That seems a bit unnecessary as 'internet date' produces a format that includes the GMT offset. So when I write this in the messageBox:  put the internet date I get: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 18:19:18 +0300 and, obviously, from the +0300 it is dead easy to work out my system time zone. Love, Richmond. On 14.09.22 18:09, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > Does your app has preferences the user can enter? Why not allow him to enter also the sudo password? > You could then use that to execute the following shell command: > > put shell("echo | sudo -S /usr/sbin/systemsetup -gettimezone") > > replace with the password in preferences. No need to use Applescript. > > Regards, > Matthias > > > >> Am 14.09.2022 um 15:50 schrieb Bob Cole via use-livecode : >> >> Just for the sake of completeness, there is a way to get the time zone with AppleScript but it requires Administrator Privileges. The MacOS pops up a request to allow the do as AppleScript script to access the systemsetup function. That manual step will interfere with the flow of the program. >> >> Create a field Statements with this AppleScript: >> >> do shell script "/usr/sbin/systemsetup -gettimezone" with administrator privileges >> >> and put the following code in the script of a button: >> >> on mouseUp >> do field "Statements" as "AppleScript" >> put the result into tResult >> set the itemDelimiter to space >> delete word 1 to 2 in tResult >> delete the last char of tResult >> put tResult into message box >> end request >> >> Tested in two time zones with these results: >> America/Chicago >> America/New_York >> >> Bob >> >>> It's the, "America/Los_Angeles" bit I am trying to find a way to grok. >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Sep 14 11:35:53 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 15:35:53 +0000 Subject: System Time Zone In-Reply-To: <38deebe3-492f-7377-2f52-2c9b16411820@gmail.com> References: <3BBFBB65-523B-457D-8555-D63F161443BE@earthlink.net> <0A7567C7-6EF4-449A-B002-5B402377583F@m-r-d.de> <38deebe3-492f-7377-2f52-2c9b16411820@gmail.com> Message-ID: It's not dead easy from the perspective of iCalendar syntax. Zones are defined by text strings. I will need a lookup table for that. Bob S On Sep 14, 2022, at 08:21 , Richmond via use-livecode > wrote: That seems a bit unnecessary as 'internet date' produces a format that includes the GMT offset. So when I write this in the messageBox: put the internet date I get: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 18:19:18 +0300 and, obviously, from the +0300 it is dead easy to work out my system time zone. Love, Richmond. From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Sep 14 11:38:33 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 17:38:33 +0200 Subject: System Time Zone In-Reply-To: <38deebe3-492f-7377-2f52-2c9b16411820@gmail.com> References: <3BBFBB65-523B-457D-8555-D63F161443BE@earthlink.net> <0A7567C7-6EF4-449A-B002-5B402377583F@m-r-d.de> <38deebe3-492f-7377-2f52-2c9b16411820@gmail.com> Message-ID: The original poster does not want to have the offset, but the time zone country/city and he already had a solution with apple script. I provided a solution just with the shell function. > Am 14.09.2022 um 17:21 schrieb Richmond via use-livecode : > > That seems a bit unnecessary as 'internet date' produces a format that includes the GMT offset. > > So when I write this in the messageBox: put the internet date > > I get: > > Wed, 14 Sep 2022 18:19:18 +0300 > > and, obviously, from the +0300 it is dead easy to work out > > my system time zone. > > Love, Richmond. > > > > > On 14.09.22 18:09, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: >> Does your app has preferences the user can enter? Why not allow him to enter also the sudo password? >> You could then use that to execute the following shell command: >> >> put shell("echo | sudo -S /usr/sbin/systemsetup -gettimezone") >> >> replace with the password in preferences. No need to use Applescript. >> >> Regards, >> Matthias >> >> >> >>> Am 14.09.2022 um 15:50 schrieb Bob Cole via use-livecode : >>> >>> Just for the sake of completeness, there is a way to get the time zone with AppleScript but it requires Administrator Privileges. The MacOS pops up a request to allow the “do as AppleScript” script to access the systemsetup function. That manual step will interfere with the flow of the program. >>> >>> Create a field “Statements” with this AppleScript: >>> >>> do shell script "/usr/sbin/systemsetup -gettimezone" with administrator privileges >>> >>> and put the following code in the script of a button: >>> >>> on mouseUp >>> do field "Statements" as "AppleScript" >>> put the result into tResult >>> set the itemDelimiter to space >>> delete word 1 to 2 in tResult >>> delete the last char of tResult >>> put tResult into message box >>> end request >>> >>> Tested in two time zones with these results: >>> America/Chicago >>> America/New_York >>> >>> Bob >>> >>>> It's the, "America/Los_Angeles" bit I am trying to find a way to grok. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Sep 14 11:40:01 2022 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 18:40:01 +0300 Subject: System Time Zone In-Reply-To: References: <3BBFBB65-523B-457D-8555-D63F161443BE@earthlink.net> <0A7567C7-6EF4-449A-B002-5B402377583F@m-r-d.de> <38deebe3-492f-7377-2f52-2c9b16411820@gmail.com> Message-ID: <129338b5-cd95-4cf9-00d1-7a9812a5f9d9@gmail.com> Ah: sorry, I had no idea (having come late to the party) that you were wanting to interact with iCal. That does look like a bit of a headache: https://icalendar.org/iCalendar-RFC-5545/3-2-19-time-zone-identifier.html Richmond. On 14.09.22 18:35, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > It's not dead easy from the perspective of iCalendar syntax. Zones are defined by text strings. I will need a lookup table for that. > > Bob S > > > On Sep 14, 2022, at 08:21 , Richmond via use-livecode > wrote: > > That seems a bit unnecessary as 'internet date' produces a format that includes the GMT offset. > > So when I write this in the messageBox: put the internet date > > I get: > > Wed, 14 Sep 2022 18:19:18 +0300 > > and, obviously, from the +0300 it is dead easy to work out > > my system time zone. > > Love, Richmond. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Sep 14 11:59:00 2022 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 18:59:00 +0300 Subject: System Time Zone In-Reply-To: References: <3BBFBB65-523B-457D-8555-D63F161443BE@earthlink.net> <0A7567C7-6EF4-449A-B002-5B402377583F@m-r-d.de> <38deebe3-492f-7377-2f52-2c9b16411820@gmail.com> Message-ID: I am simply trying to present a solution that works: 1. 100% in LiveCode. 2. 100% cross-platform. Richmond. On 14.09.22 18:38, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > The original poster does not want to have the offset, but the time zone country/city and he already had a solution with apple script. > I provided a solution just with the shell function. > > >> Am 14.09.2022 um 17:21 schrieb Richmond via use-livecode : >> >> That seems a bit unnecessary as 'internet date' produces a format that includes the GMT offset. >> >> So when I write this in the messageBox: put the internet date >> >> I get: >> >> Wed, 14 Sep 2022 18:19:18 +0300 >> >> and, obviously, from the +0300 it is dead easy to work out >> >> my system time zone. >> >> Love, Richmond. >> >> >> >> >> On 14.09.22 18:09, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: >>> Does your app has preferences the user can enter? Why not allow him to enter also the sudo password? >>> You could then use that to execute the following shell command: >>> >>> put shell("echo | sudo -S /usr/sbin/systemsetup -gettimezone") >>> >>> replace with the password in preferences. No need to use Applescript. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Matthias >>> >>> >>> >>>> Am 14.09.2022 um 15:50 schrieb Bob Cole via use-livecode : >>>> >>>> Just for the sake of completeness, there is a way to get the time zone with AppleScript but it requires Administrator Privileges. The MacOS pops up a request to allow the do as AppleScript script to access the systemsetup function. That manual step will interfere with the flow of the program. >>>> >>>> Create a field Statements with this AppleScript: >>>> >>>> do shell script "/usr/sbin/systemsetup -gettimezone" with administrator privileges >>>> >>>> and put the following code in the script of a button: >>>> >>>> on mouseUp >>>> do field "Statements" as "AppleScript" >>>> put the result into tResult >>>> set the itemDelimiter to space >>>> delete word 1 to 2 in tResult >>>> delete the last char of tResult >>>> put tResult into message box >>>> end request >>>> >>>> Tested in two time zones with these results: >>>> America/Chicago >>>> America/New_York >>>> >>>> Bob >>>> >>>>> It's the, "America/Los_Angeles" bit I am trying to find a way to grok. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Sep 14 12:01:40 2022 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 19:01:40 +0300 Subject: System Time Zone In-Reply-To: References: <3BBFBB65-523B-457D-8555-D63F161443BE@earthlink.net> <0A7567C7-6EF4-449A-B002-5B402377583F@m-r-d.de> <38deebe3-492f-7377-2f52-2c9b16411820@gmail.com> Message-ID: From an offset from GMT it is easy enough with this: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/88/World_Time_Zones_Map.png to run up a listField with timezones and their countries as a sort of ad-hoc lookup table. On 14.09.22 18:38, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > The original poster does not want to have the offset, but the time zone country/city and he already had a solution with apple script. > I provided a solution just with the shell function. > > >> Am 14.09.2022 um 17:21 schrieb Richmond via use-livecode : >> >> That seems a bit unnecessary as 'internet date' produces a format that includes the GMT offset. >> >> So when I write this in the messageBox: put the internet date >> >> I get: >> >> Wed, 14 Sep 2022 18:19:18 +0300 >> >> and, obviously, from the +0300 it is dead easy to work out >> >> my system time zone. >> >> Love, Richmond. >> >> >> >> >> On 14.09.22 18:09, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: >>> Does your app has preferences the user can enter? Why not allow him to enter also the sudo password? >>> You could then use that to execute the following shell command: >>> >>> put shell("echo | sudo -S /usr/sbin/systemsetup -gettimezone") >>> >>> replace with the password in preferences. No need to use Applescript. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Matthias >>> >>> >>> >>>> Am 14.09.2022 um 15:50 schrieb Bob Cole via use-livecode : >>>> >>>> Just for the sake of completeness, there is a way to get the time zone with AppleScript but it requires Administrator Privileges. The MacOS pops up a request to allow the do as AppleScript script to access the systemsetup function. That manual step will interfere with the flow of the program. >>>> >>>> Create a field Statements with this AppleScript: >>>> >>>> do shell script "/usr/sbin/systemsetup -gettimezone" with administrator privileges >>>> >>>> and put the following code in the script of a button: >>>> >>>> on mouseUp >>>> do field "Statements" as "AppleScript" >>>> put the result into tResult >>>> set the itemDelimiter to space >>>> delete word 1 to 2 in tResult >>>> delete the last char of tResult >>>> put tResult into message box >>>> end request >>>> >>>> Tested in two time zones with these results: >>>> America/Chicago >>>> America/New_York >>>> >>>> Bob >>>> >>>>> It's the, "America/Los_Angeles" bit I am trying to find a way to grok. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Sep 14 12:43:22 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 11:43:22 -0500 Subject: System Time Zone In-Reply-To: References: <3BBFBB65-523B-457D-8555-D63F161443BE@earthlink.net> <0A7567C7-6EF4-449A-B002-5B402377583F@m-r-d.de> <38deebe3-492f-7377-2f52-2c9b16411820@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1833ce23810.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> That was my first thought too and I (erroneously) suggested the internet "time", which should have been "date". I found a ready-made lookup list and began experimenting. No go. You have to know whether the area is on daylight savings time because the offset changes. You also need to know the location because cities in the same zone vary, and Apple's format requires a specific city location reference, so that would be a second lookup. And the OP doesn't want a lookup list anyway. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On September 14, 2022 11:03:40 AM Richmond via use-livecode wrote: > From an offset from GMT it is easy enough with this: > > https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/88/World_Time_Zones_Map.png > > to run up a listField with timezones and their countries as a sort of > ad-hoc lookup table. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Sep 14 13:20:39 2022 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 20:20:39 +0300 Subject: System Time Zone In-Reply-To: References: <3BBFBB65-523B-457D-8555-D63F161443BE@earthlink.net> <0A7567C7-6EF4-449A-B002-5B402377583F@m-r-d.de> <38deebe3-492f-7377-2f52-2c9b16411820@gmail.com> Message-ID: https://use-livecode.runrev.narkive.com/PhNgjt9Q/time-problems-with-daylight-saving On 14.09.22 19:01, Richmond wrote: > From an offset from GMT it is easy enough with this: > > https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/88/World_Time_Zones_Map.png > > > to run up a listField with timezones and their countries as a sort of > ad-hoc lookup table. > > On 14.09.22 18:38, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: >> The original poster does not want to have the offset, but the time >> zone country/city and he already had a solution with apple script. >> I provided a solution just with the shell function. >> >> >>> Am 14.09.2022 um 17:21 schrieb Richmond via use-livecode >>> : >>> >>> That seems a bit unnecessary as 'internet date' produces a format >>> that includes the GMT offset. >>> >>> So when I write this in the messageBox:  put the internet date >>> >>> I get: >>> >>> Wed, 14 Sep 2022 18:19:18 +0300 >>> >>> and, obviously, from the +0300 it is dead easy to work out >>> >>> my system time zone. >>> >>> Love, Richmond. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 14.09.22 18:09, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: >>>> Does your app has preferences the user can enter? Why not allow him >>>> to enter also the sudo password? >>>> You could then use that to execute the following shell command: >>>> >>>> put shell("echo | sudo -S /usr/sbin/systemsetup >>>> -gettimezone") >>>> >>>> replace with the password in preferences. No need to use >>>> Applescript. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Matthias >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Am 14.09.2022 um 15:50 schrieb Bob Cole via use-livecode >>>>> : >>>>> >>>>> Just for the sake of completeness, there is a way to get the time >>>>> zone with AppleScript but it requires Administrator Privileges. >>>>> The MacOS pops up a request to allow the do as AppleScript >>>>> script to access the systemsetup function. That manual step will >>>>> interfere with the flow of the program. >>>>> >>>>> Create a field Statements with this AppleScript: >>>>> >>>>> do shell script "/usr/sbin/systemsetup -gettimezone" with >>>>> administrator privileges >>>>> >>>>> and put the following code in the script of a button: >>>>> >>>>> on mouseUp >>>>>    do field "Statements" as "AppleScript" >>>>>    put the result into tResult >>>>>    set the itemDelimiter to space >>>>>    delete word 1 to 2 in tResult >>>>>    delete the last char of tResult >>>>>    put tResult into message box >>>>> end request >>>>> >>>>> Tested in two time zones with these results: >>>>> America/Chicago >>>>> America/New_York >>>>> >>>>> Bob >>>>> >>>>>> It's the, "America/Los_Angeles" bit I am trying to find a way to >>>>>> grok. >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Sep 14 13:42:06 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 10:42:06 -0700 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Neville wrote: > You can see screen grabs of the resulting Mac and Windows standalones > at > https://www.dropbox.com/s/v2hzwe159ep6nep/My%20beautiful%20app%20on%20Mac.png?dl=0 > > https://www.dropbox.com/s/wr2limdozwob9v7/My%20beautiful%20app%20on%20Windows.png?dl=0 Thank you for the screen shots. If a picture is normally worth a thousand words, in discussions of visual details they're worth a million. :) I did a quick search for "font baseline difference mac windows" on DuckDuckGo and found several discussions across a great many tools around this issue of vertical drift, e.g.: https://community.adobe.com/t5/adobe-xd-discussions/absolutely-different-font-rendering-on-mac-and-windows/m-p/11070914 https://stackoverflow.com/questions/11726442/font-rendering-line-height-issue-on-mac-pc-outside-of-element https://community.adobe.com/t5/adobe-xd-discussions/google-font-and-adobe-font-line-height-discrepancies/m-p/10941118#M24073 The last two may be especially interesting, as commenters suggest using Google fonts for common faces sometimes yield better results than fonts from other foundries, with apparently more detail in the font code to account for fractional ascenders/descenders. A couple of suggestions also point to software tools like FontForg or the web app Transfonter.org to make adjustments to the font metrics. And of course with web devs we see some conditional CSS to account for the difference, similar to what you're doing with LC margin properties. It would be helpful to get Mark Waddingham's view on this, since of course he knows the interaction between LC's rendering engine and the underlying text renderers in the OS better than anyone. But given how widespread the issue is across some of the most heavily-financed apps in the world (Microsoft, Adobe, web browsers), my hunch aligns with the comments in those discussions linked to above: variances in both OS renderers and in the code of the font files themselves would make it perhaps cost-prohibitive to attempt to address all possible combinations. If you find that using an embedded font from Google solves it, or at least reduces it, please let us know. Beyond that, where fine-tuning is needed for non-HIG GUIs it may be that carefully-crafted margin adjustments are as good as we get. Small comfort, but such tediousness would still leave us no worse off than pro designers using Adobe tools or web browsers. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From jbv at souslelogo.com Wed Sep 14 14:58:00 2022 From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 14:58:00 -0400 Subject: [semi-OT] PDF on the fly Message-ID: Hi list, I have a web site on which end users can select several options, and then click a button "show PDF", and a pdf containing various contents from a remote DB with a sophisticated layout is built server side in a second and automatically downloaded. The link of the button is something like : https://domain.com/showPDF.lc?a=parameters and the script sets the header of the pdf file as follows : put header "Content-Type: application/pdf" put header "Content-Length: " & number of chars of myPDF put header "Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=" "e& myFileName "e This has been working fine for years, and still works on Chrome and FF, but apparently the latest versions of Safari don't accept it: the file is built and the download starts but quickly stalls and that's it. And no error message van be found in the console. As an alternative solution, I've been thinking of building the pdf server side and writing it in a temporary folder, and then on the web page displaying a prompt with a button containing the actual url of the file. But that's not very elegant IMHO. What other options do I have ? Thank you in advance. Best, jbv From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Wed Sep 14 15:14:49 2022 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 15:14:49 -0400 Subject: [semi-OT] PDF on the fly In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000001d8c86e$4598cff0$d0ca6fd0$@net> How fortuitous... I just ran into this while doing JavaScript xhttp network requests to LC Server on Safari only. I just updated from LC Server 9.5.1. to 9.6.6. I saw it in Safari in iOS. Chrome in iOS worked OK. I went back to 9.5.1 and everything started working again in Safari. Do we possibly have the same problem? This might not be OT at all. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of jbv via use-livecode Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2022 2:58 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: jbv at souslelogo.com Subject: [semi-OT] PDF on the fly Hi list, I have a web site on which end users can select several options, and then click a button "show PDF", and a pdf containing various contents from a remote DB with a sophisticated layout is built server side in a second and automatically downloaded. The link of the button is something like : https://domain.com/showPDF.lc?a=parameters and the script sets the header of the pdf file as follows : put header "Content-Type: application/pdf" put header "Content-Length: " & number of chars of myPDF put header "Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=" "e& myFileName "e This has been working fine for years, and still works on Chrome and FF, but apparently the latest versions of Safari don't accept it: the file is built and the download starts but quickly stalls and that's it. And no error message van be found in the console. As an alternative solution, I've been thinking of building the pdf server side and writing it in a temporary folder, and then on the web page displaying a prompt with a button containing the actual url of the file. But that's not very elegant IMHO. What other options do I have ? Thank you in advance. Best, jbv _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Sep 14 15:22:08 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 21:22:08 +0200 Subject: [semi-OT] PDF on the fly In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2B42490C-6D53-4AE8-9981-48457436D78F@m-r-d.de> I just checked here with a script i am using for years to provide the download of a csv file and it still works with Version 15.6 (17613.3.9.1.5). Is that the newest version? This is my script: put header "Content-Type: application/text" put header "Content-Length:" & the number of chars of tFileContent put new header "Content-Disposition: attachment; FileName=" & tFileName put URL("file:" & tFileContent) The only difference i see is, that i have put new header instead of put header > Am 14.09.2022 um 20:58 schrieb jbv via use-livecode : > > Hi list, > > I have a web site on which end users can select several options, > and then click a button "show PDF", and a pdf containing various > contents from a remote DB with a sophisticated layout is built > server side in a second and automatically downloaded. > > The link of the button is something like : > https://domain.com/showPDF.lc?a=parameters > and the script sets the header of the pdf file as follows : > put header "Content-Type: application/pdf" > put header "Content-Length: " & number of chars of myPDF > put header "Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=" "e& myFileName "e > > This has been working fine for years, and still works on Chrome > and FF, but apparently the latest versions of Safari don't accept it: > the file is built and the download starts but quickly stalls and that's it. > And no error message van be found in the console. > > As an alternative solution, I've been thinking of building the pdf server side > and writing it in a temporary folder, and then on the web page displaying a > prompt with a button containing the actual url of the file. But that's not > very elegant IMHO. > > What other options do I have ? > Thank you in advance. > > Best, > jbv > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Sep 14 15:24:12 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 21:24:12 +0200 Subject: [semi-OT] PDF on the fly In-Reply-To: <2B42490C-6D53-4AE8-9981-48457436D78F@m-r-d.de> References: <2B42490C-6D53-4AE8-9981-48457436D78F@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <0164FA5A-AF37-4D4E-B74D-1C8062B0A083@m-r-d.de> I am running 9.6.5 on the server where i tested the script. > Am 14.09.2022 um 21:22 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode : > > I just checked here with a script i am using for years to provide the download of a csv file and it still works with Version 15.6 (17613.3.9.1.5). > Is that the newest version? > > This is my script: > > put header "Content-Type: application/text" > put header "Content-Length:" & the number of chars of tFileContent > put new header "Content-Disposition: attachment; FileName=" & tFileName > put URL("file:" & tFileContent) > > The only difference i see is, that i have put new header instead of put header > > > > > > >> Am 14.09.2022 um 20:58 schrieb jbv via use-livecode : >> >> Hi list, >> >> I have a web site on which end users can select several options, >> and then click a button "show PDF", and a pdf containing various >> contents from a remote DB with a sophisticated layout is built >> server side in a second and automatically downloaded. >> >> The link of the button is something like : >> https://domain.com/showPDF.lc?a=parameters >> and the script sets the header of the pdf file as follows : >> put header "Content-Type: application/pdf" >> put header "Content-Length: " & number of chars of myPDF >> put header "Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=" "e& myFileName "e >> >> This has been working fine for years, and still works on Chrome >> and FF, but apparently the latest versions of Safari don't accept it: >> the file is built and the download starts but quickly stalls and that's it. >> And no error message van be found in the console. >> >> As an alternative solution, I've been thinking of building the pdf server side >> and writing it in a temporary folder, and then on the web page displaying a >> prompt with a button containing the actual url of the file. But that's not >> very elegant IMHO. >> >> What other options do I have ? >> Thank you in advance. >> >> Best, >> jbv >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jbv at souslelogo.com Wed Sep 14 16:44:31 2022 From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 16:44:31 -0400 Subject: [semi-OT] PDF on the fly In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi guys, Thank you for your answers. No matter what I try, the problem remains the same on Safari. My LC script runs on my on-rev account, and it uses LC 9.6. Could this really be the problem ? Best, jbv From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Sep 14 17:00:33 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 23:00:33 +0200 Subject: [semi-OT] PDF on the fly In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8FB37142-B986-4F60-AF48-671E3A96B270@m-r-d.de> I just tested on quartz.on-rev.com with LC Server 9.6.0. I've created a textfile with a size of 1mb. tested with this script and it worked. I even tested with put header instead of put new header. Which version of Safari do you have? > Am 14.09.2022 um 22:44 schrieb jbv via use-livecode : > > Hi guys, > > Thank you for your answers. > No matter what I try, the problem remains the same on Safari. > My LC script runs on my on-rev account, and it uses LC 9.6. > Could this really be the problem ? > > Best, > jbv > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Sep 14 17:10:43 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 21:10:43 +0000 Subject: System Time Zone In-Reply-To: <1833ce23810.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <3BBFBB65-523B-457D-8555-D63F161443BE@earthlink.net> <0A7567C7-6EF4-449A-B002-5B402377583F@m-r-d.de> <38deebe3-492f-7377-2f52-2c9b16411820@gmail.com> <1833ce23810.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <032D8660-A758-45B1-A272-3F00466A78E4@iotecdigital.com> Well, IDEALLY I would like a way that does not involve a lookup list, but I do not think that is possible. I already downloaded an official list of time zones in the proper format, and their standard and savings time offsets. That should be close enough. Another thing I can do is in a settings pane, offer up a list of time zones and have the user select the correct one before iCalendar support is enabled. Easy enough. Bob S On Sep 14, 2022, at 09:43 , J. Landman Gay via use-livecode > wrote: That was my first thought too and I (erroneously) suggested the internet "time", which should have been "date". I found a ready-made lookup list and began experimenting. No go. You have to know whether the area is on daylight savings time because the offset changes. You also need to know the location because cities in the same zone vary, and Apple's format requires a specific city location reference, so that would be a second lookup. And the OP doesn't want a lookup list anyway. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jbv at souslelogo.com Thu Sep 15 05:36:06 2022 From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2022 05:36:06 -0400 Subject: [semi-OT] PDF on the fly In-Reply-To: <8FB37142-B986-4F60-AF48-671E3A96B270@m-r-d.de> References: <8FB37142-B986-4F60-AF48-671E3A96B270@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: I am using Safari 15.6 (15613.3.9.1.7, 15613) But I finally found the origin of the problem : put header "Content-Length: " & number of chars of myPDF After removing that line from the header, files download and display fine in Safari, as in other browsers. So far I have no rational explanation though. Best, jbv Le 2022-09-14 17:00, matthias rebbe via use-livecode a crit : > I just tested on quartz.on-rev.com with LC > Server 9.6.0. > > I've created a textfile with a size of 1mb. > > tested with this script and it worked. I even tested with put header > instead of put new header. > put header "Content-Type: application/text" > put new header "Content-Disposition: attachment; FileName=" & > "justsomeText.txt" > put URL("binfile:" & "justsomeText.txt") > ?> > > Which version of Safari do you have? > > > >> Am 14.09.2022 um 22:44 schrieb jbv via use-livecode >> : >> >> Hi guys, >> >> Thank you for your answers. >> No matter what I try, the problem remains the same on Safari. >> My LC script runs on my on-rev account, and it uses LC 9.6. >> Could this really be the problem ? >> >> Best, >> jbv >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Thu Sep 15 07:07:04 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2022 13:07:04 +0200 Subject: [semi-OT] PDF on the fly In-Reply-To: References: <8FB37142-B986-4F60-AF48-671E3A96B270@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: That is interesting. I tried here with content-length on on-rev and it works here with Version 15.6 (17613.3.9.1.5) of Safari. At least you've found a solution... > Am 15.09.2022 um 11:36 schrieb jbv via use-livecode : > > I am using Safari 15.6 (15613.3.9.1.7, 15613) > > But I finally found the origin of the problem : > put header "Content-Length: " & number of chars of myPDF > > After removing that line from the header, files download and > display fine in Safari, as in other browsers. > So far I have no rational explanation though. > > Best, > jbv > > Le 2022-09-14 17:00, matthias rebbe via use-livecode a écrit : >> I just tested on quartz.on-rev.com with LC >> Server 9.6.0. >> I've created a textfile with a size of 1mb. >> tested with this script and it worked. I even tested with put header >> instead of put new header. >> > put header "Content-Type: application/text" >> put new header "Content-Disposition: attachment; FileName=" & "justsomeText.txt" >> put URL("binfile:" & "justsomeText.txt") >> ?> >> Which version of Safari do you have? >>> Am 14.09.2022 um 22:44 schrieb jbv via use-livecode : >>> Hi guys, >>> Thank you for your answers. >>> No matter what I try, the problem remains the same on Safari. >>> My LC script runs on my on-rev account, and it uses LC 9.6. >>> Could this really be the problem ? >>> Best, >>> jbv >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu Sep 15 10:44:51 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2022 10:44:51 -0400 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <6AF5BE8C-DC3F-4EA9-8490-BA6DDDD7DD7E@m-r-d.de> <002d01d8c477$3f7e1710$be7a4530$@net> <000d01d8c53c$f3cc6d00$db654700$@net> Message-ID: What's NavRAD? It's a better version of LiveCode's NavBar widget. Why "RAD"? Cos Ralph A DiMola said so, since he added the first two nifty updates to it: * an autoHilite boolean, so you can intercept clicks before the selected icon changes instead of after, and * icon zoom Now it's also got margins. https://github.com/macMikey/LC-NavRad From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Thu Sep 15 11:27:01 2022 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2022 11:27:01 -0400 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <6AF5BE8C-DC3F-4EA9-8490-BA6DDDD7DD7E@m-r-d.de> <002d01d8c477$3f7e1710$be7a4530$@net> <000d01d8c53c$f3cc6d00$db654700$@net> Message-ID: <001a01d8c917$9d2e7d10$d78b7730$@net> Also another new feature is the Icon Fill property. If enabled: 1)If there is no label the icon is enlarged slightly and centered vertically 2) In the PI the label can be deleted without the "New Item" inserted into the label. I did this because among others the social media icons don't need labels. All new features are fully documented. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2022 10:45 AM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Mike Kerner Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual What's NavRAD? It's a better version of LiveCode's NavBar widget. Why "RAD"? Cos Ralph A DiMola said so, since he added the first two nifty updates to it: * an autoHilite boolean, so you can intercept clicks before the selected icon changes instead of after, and * icon zoom Now it's also got margins. https://github.com/macMikey/LC-NavRad _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Thu Sep 15 11:37:31 2022 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2022 11:37:31 -0400 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <6AF5BE8C-DC3F-4EA9-8490-BA6DDDD7DD7E@m-r-d.de> <002d01d8c477$3f7e1710$be7a4530$@net> <000d01d8c53c$f3cc6d00$db654700$@net> Message-ID: <001b01d8c919$14886c80$3d994580$@net> Docs aside... I still think that widgets and lcb is one of best additions to LC. Community collaboration like this will make for better documentation and more new/improved widgets. A robust library of widgets can only help LC to penetrate the market. If only we had these when I started... Shout out to Mike K. for all the help! Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net From alex at tweedly.net Thu Sep 15 18:11:17 2022 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2022 23:11:17 +0100 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <6AF5BE8C-DC3F-4EA9-8490-BA6DDDD7DD7E@m-r-d.de> <002d01d8c477$3f7e1710$be7a4530$@net> <000d01d8c53c$f3cc6d00$db654700$@net> Message-ID: On 15/09/2022 15:44, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > What's NavRAD? It's a better version of LiveCode's NavBar widget. > Why "RAD"? Cos Ralph A DiMola said so, since he added the first two nifty > updates to it: I see the code has an outdated copyright statement, which would (I think) currently mean that any app using it would (potentially) become open-source (GPL). If that;s not the intent, maybe it could be updated ? Currently it says >   Copyright (C) 2015-2022 LiveCode Ltd.icon > >   This file is part of LiveCode. > >   LiveCode is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it > under >   the terms of the GNU General Public License v3 as published by the Free >   Software Foundation. > >   LiveCode is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but > WITHOUT ANY >   WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or >   FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the GNU General Public License >   for more details. > >   You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License >   along with LiveCode.  If not see .  */ Alex. > Copyright (C) 2015-2022 LiveCode Ltd.icon > > > > This file is part of LiveCode. > > > > LiveCode is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it > under > > the terms of the GNU General Public License v3 as published by the Free > > Software Foundation. > > > > LiveCode is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but > WITHOUT ANY > > WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or > > FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the GNU General Public License > > for more details. > > > > You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License > > along with LiveCode. If not see . */ > > From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Sep 15 20:19:36 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2022 19:19:36 -0500 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <6AF5BE8C-DC3F-4EA9-8490-BA6DDDD7DD7E@m-r-d.de> <002d01d8c477$3f7e1710$be7a4530$@net> <000d01d8c53c$f3cc6d00$db654700$@net> Message-ID: <18343aa41d8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Legally the only date that matters is the date of creation. Almost everyone adds the current date as well, and I keep trying to talk my clients out of it but they won't listen. Then I have to keep updating the copyright string, knowing it doesn't matter, but if I don't the app looks old and unsupported. Some time back I wrote a handler that updates the end date to the current year on launch so I don't have to worry about it. A single copyright creation date is valid for the life of the creator plus (in the US) 75 years. Oh well. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On September 15, 2022 5:12:59 PM Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote: > On 15/09/2022 15:44, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: >> What's NavRAD? It's a better version of LiveCode's NavBar widget. >> Why "RAD"? Cos Ralph A DiMola said so, since he added the first two nifty >> updates to it: > > I see the code has an outdated copyright statement, which would (I > think) currently mean that any app using it would (potentially) become > open-source (GPL). If that;s not the intent, maybe it could be updated ? > > Currently it says > >> Copyright (C) 2015-2022 LiveCode Ltd.icon >> >> This file is part of LiveCode. >> >> LiveCode is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it >> under >> the terms of the GNU General Public License v3 as published by the Free >> Software Foundation. >> >> LiveCode is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but >> WITHOUT ANY >> WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or >> FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the GNU General Public License >> for more details. >> >> You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License >> along with LiveCode. If not see . */ > > Alex. > > > >> Copyright (C) 2015-2022 LiveCode Ltd.icon >> >> >> >> This file is part of LiveCode. >> >> >> >> LiveCode is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it >> under >> >> the terms of the GNU General Public License v3 as published by the Free >> >> Software Foundation. >> >> >> >> LiveCode is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but >> WITHOUT ANY >> >> WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or >> >> FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the GNU General Public License >> >> for more details. >> >> >> >> You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License >> >> along with LiveCode. If not see . */ >> >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From brahma at hindu.org Thu Sep 15 21:30:10 2022 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2022 01:30:10 +0000 Subject: iOS 16! It will not do landscape! Message-ID: Aloha Everyone Well I was involved in iOS 16. Just yesterday. It downloaded to my phone (iPhone 13, with Version 16.0 – 20A362) . When I did that, none of stacks of my stacks will do landscape! stack “wordpuzzle” on preOpenStack if isMobile() then mobileSetAllowedOrientations "landscape left,landscape right" mobileSetFullScreenRectForOrientations "landscape left,landscape right","0,0,736,414" set the fullscreenmode of this stack to "showAll" -- better for wider screens end if hide grc "blankScreen" setCardCoords "landscape" end preOpenStack stack “view_BrowserLandscape” on preopenstack local tBrowser, tOrientations set the fullscreenmode of this stack to empty put the short name this stack into tBrowser put (tBrowser contains "landscape") into sLandscapeOnly put "landscape left,landscape right" into tOrientations if sLandscapeOnly then put "landscape" into sOrientation else put "portrait,portrait upside down," before tOrientations put "portrait" into sOrientation end if setCardCoords sOrientation if isMobile() then mobileSetAllowedOrientations tOrientations end if resetUI hide grc "blankImage" send "showBrowser" to me in 10 seconds end preopenstack Where is the newest download. https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ LiveCode 9.6.9 RC 1, 10 August 2022 RC 1 Release Notes 10 August 2 Brahmanathaswami And it not there! Did see SivaSiva 1.7.2? It on the iPhone – App Store. Svasti Astu – Be Well Brahmanathaswami Get SivaSiva.app – It free! https://www.himalayanacademy.com/view/sivasiva From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Thu Sep 15 22:27:23 2022 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2022 12:27:23 +1000 Subject: Standardize Font Appearance Message-ID: Thanks Richard for your comments. Interesting to see comments about font drift in a general context The problems is however not fixed if you add Google fonts to your standalone. The problem could probably be fixed (on Mac and Windows anyway) by hacking the fonts to change their metadata tables but that is getting into really deep water, and may even violate copyright. The core of the issue is what I think is a design flaw in the way LC places text when it asks the platform OS to render the string. Experiment 1: Create a standard field. Set the properties to non-3d, draw borders with thickness 1 so we can judge the vertical placement. Type the text “A standard label”. Set the field font to Arial so we can compare the results on Mac and Windows. Result: On the Mac and Windows we get subtly different results. On Windows the capital “A" appears centered in the box; on the Mac the lower case letters “san" appear centered. Which means the Windows string is lower than the Mac string. As an initialisation of the new field it looks OK on both IDEs. But as we have seen we get into trouble when the text uses other fonts or sizes or if it interacts visually with nearby objects. Experiment 2: Now change the font size to 64pt. Result: The text disappears. It is now placed way below the bounding box, and it is a bit of a hassle to get it back into view. That is a terrible user interface. The nicest user experience would be if the newly sized string appeared with the same baseline as the initial string, and that would certainly make alignment of text easier. However, that model wouldn’t quite fit the LC field model with a user-settable top margin, as it would necessitate overriding the top margin. If the top margin is to be honoured, the two obvious choices are to place the text so the top of the capital A appears at the bottom of the top margin (perhaps the Windows viewpoint?) or if the top of the lowercase letters appear at the top margin, allowing cap letters and risers such as h to bleed into the top margin (let us call this the Mac viewpoint). But neither of these two are what actually happens. I can confirm that LC actually places the text (the first line, for a field with fixedLineHeight false - that is another story) so that the baseline is set top margin of the field + fontAscent of the font - 6 pixels below the top of the field. This formula holds precisely over all the fonts and sizes I have tested and on all 3 platforms. It appears what was intended, probably way back in Hypercard when fonts were bitmaps, was to drop the string below the top margin by the height of capitals (the ascent) and then pull back by 6 pixels so that the top of the lowercase x is at the top margin (the Mac viewpoint). It works well enough on the common initial fonts and sizes for fields because 6 is about the difference in letter heights at these sizes. However the fontAscent returned by measureText is quite evidently not the height of the letter A above the baseline, it is more like the maximum font height above the baseline, so the string disappears in Experiment 2. And the two platforms return different values for fontAscent anyway, leading to the alignment problems in Experiment 1. Furthermore that constant 6 is of course grossly wrong for other font sizes. What was meant surely was top margin + x-ascent of the font (Which was possibly computational more expensive bearing in mind various font formats?) It would now be impossible for LC to change how it places text in fields, to either the Mac or Windows viewpoint, because that would break every stack having a text field! What could be done however would be to add a couple of field properties which would enable baselines to be aligned, as I suggested in a previous post. Neville From alex at tweedly.net Fri Sep 16 06:41:16 2022 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2022 11:41:16 +0100 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: <18343aa41d8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <6AF5BE8C-DC3F-4EA9-8490-BA6DDDD7DD7E@m-r-d.de> <002d01d8c477$3f7e1710$be7a4530$@net> <000d01d8c53c$f3cc6d00$db654700$@net> <18343aa41d8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <1fb5963b-7bbb-4215-8c22-a33c565e04dc@tweedly.net> Sorry, I confused things by using the word "outdated". I wasn't referring to the date in the copyright statement, but to the fact that it says "Livecode is free software [...  GPL]", and "this file is part of Livecode", and implications that may have on the license situation for the widget and anyone who uses it in an app. Alex. On 16/09/2022 01:19, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > Legally the only date that matters is the date of creation. Almost > everyone adds the current date as well, and I keep trying to talk my > clients out of it but they won't listen. Then I have to keep updating > the copyright string, knowing it doesn't matter, but if I don't the > app looks old and unsupported. Some time back I wrote a handler that > updates the end date to the current year on launch so I don't have to > worry about it. > > A single copyright creation date is valid for the life of the creator > plus (in the US) 75 years. > > Oh well. > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > On September 15, 2022 5:12:59 PM Alex Tweedly via use-livecode > wrote: > >> On 15/09/2022 15:44, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: >>> What's NavRAD? It's a better version of LiveCode's NavBar widget. >>> Why "RAD"? Cos Ralph A DiMola said so, since he added the first two >>> nifty >>> updates to it: >> >> I see the code has an outdated copyright statement, which would (I >> think) currently mean that any app using it would (potentially) become >> open-source (GPL). If that;s not the intent, maybe it could be updated ? >> >> Currently it says >> >>>   Copyright (C) 2015-2022 LiveCode Ltd.icon >>> >>>   This file is part of LiveCode. >>> >>>   LiveCode is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it >>> under >>>   the terms of the GNU General Public License v3 as published by the >>> Free >>>   Software Foundation. >>> >>>   LiveCode is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but >>> WITHOUT ANY >>>   WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or >>>   FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the GNU General Public License >>>   for more details. >>> >>>   You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License >>>   along with LiveCode.  If not see .  */ >> >> Alex. >> >> >> >>> Copyright (C) 2015-2022 LiveCode Ltd.icon >>> >>> >>> >>>     This file is part of LiveCode. >>> >>> >>> >>>     LiveCode is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it >>> under >>> >>>     the terms of the GNU General Public License v3 as published by >>> the Free >>> >>>     Software Foundation. >>> >>> >>> >>>     LiveCode is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but >>> WITHOUT ANY >>> >>>     WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or >>> >>>     FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the GNU General Public >>> License >>> >>>     for more details. >>> >>> >>> >>>     You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License >>> >>>     along with LiveCode. If not see . */ >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri Sep 16 10:04:35 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2022 10:04:35 -0400 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: <1fb5963b-7bbb-4215-8c22-a33c565e04dc@tweedly.net> References: <6AF5BE8C-DC3F-4EA9-8490-BA6DDDD7DD7E@m-r-d.de> <002d01d8c477$3f7e1710$be7a4530$@net> <000d01d8c53c$f3cc6d00$db654700$@net> <18343aa41d8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <1fb5963b-7bbb-4215-8c22-a33c565e04dc@tweedly.net> Message-ID: By the way, we updated it, again, this morning, because, we're like little kids now that we're starting to crack the code on this thing. It's nothing too exciting, today, but it's better than it was, yesterday, including fixing the copyright header - which was my error. Here's what happened on the copyright: originally Ralph was working on this widget and I was working on it, separately. His version had the OSS copyright text on it (correct). I was intending to just throw the updates at LC and say "Here", so I grabbed the later copyright header to make merging it easier. The code of the widget is exactly the same between the OSS version and the one that's in the newer bundles. Now, I'm more inclined to do it "the right way", so, this morning's version has the original, technically correct, OSS header. That header says Copyright (C) 2015-2016 LiveCode Ltd. This file is part of LiveCode. LiveCode is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License v3 as published by the Free Software Foundation. LiveCode is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the GNU General Public License for more details. You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License along with LiveCode. If not see . From jbv at souslelogo.com Fri Sep 16 10:10:07 2022 From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2022 10:10:07 -0400 Subject: Ignoring accented characters Message-ID: <438ffe4e04dfebdc0411bdfede465504@souslelogo.com> Hi list, Is there a way to ignore accented characters in LC, like in mySQL for instance ? Here's an example : I need these 2 array items below to be considered as 1 single entity : add 1 to myArray["interprtation"] add 1 to myArray["interpretation"] Of course, I can write a function that removes accents, but I was wondering if there was a built-in function in LC to do that, in a similar logic as "set the casesentive to false" for instance. Thanks you in advance. jbv From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri Sep 16 10:45:53 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2022 10:45:53 -0400 Subject: iOS 16! It will not do landscape! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: weird. we've got 16.1 on our ipads. the LC app we're running on them is working fine in landscape. On Thu, Sep 15, 2022 at 9:31 PM Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote: > Aloha Everyone > > Well I was involved in iOS 16. Just yesterday. > > It downloaded to my phone (iPhone 13, with Version 16.0 – 20A362) . When I > did that, none of stacks of my stacks will do landscape! > > stack “wordpuzzle” > > on preOpenStack > > if isMobile() then > > mobileSetAllowedOrientations "landscape left,landscape > right" > > mobileSetFullScreenRectForOrientations "landscape > left,landscape right","0,0,736,414" > > set the fullscreenmode of this stack to "showAll" -- > better for wider screens > > end if > > hide grc "blankScreen" > > setCardCoords "landscape" > > end preOpenStack > > stack “view_BrowserLandscape” > > > > on preopenstack > > local tBrowser, tOrientations > > set the fullscreenmode of this stack to empty > > put the short name this stack into tBrowser > > put (tBrowser contains "landscape") into sLandscapeOnly > > put "landscape left,landscape right" into tOrientations > > if sLandscapeOnly then > > put "landscape" into sOrientation > > else > > put "portrait,portrait upside down," before tOrientations > > put "portrait" into sOrientation > > end if > > setCardCoords sOrientation > > if isMobile() then > > mobileSetAllowedOrientations tOrientations > > end if > > resetUI > > hide grc "blankImage" > > send "showBrowser" to me in 10 seconds > > end preopenstack > > Where is the newest download. > > https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ > > LiveCode 9.6.9 RC 1, 10 August 2022 > > RC 1 > Release Notes< > https://livecodestatic.com/downloads/livecode/9_6_9/LiveCodeNotes-9_6_9_rc_1.pdf > > > 10 August 2 > > > Brahmanathaswami > > > > > And it not there! > > > Did see SivaSiva 1.7.2? It on the iPhone – App Store. > > Svasti Astu – Be Well > Brahmanathaswami > > Get SivaSiva.app – It free! > https://www.himalayanacademy.com/view/sivasiva > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From brian at milby7.com Fri Sep 16 11:01:38 2022 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2022 11:01:38 -0400 Subject: iOS 16! It will not do landscape! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1DBE7123-E9C0-4DF2-B8CC-4B1D3C4F6605@milby7.com> Does your app use a launcher model? SivaSiva has one stack that is the launcher which opens the portal stack (main menu) when then goes to modules. Portrait is set on the launcher and each module has different orientation requirements/settings. Brian Milby brian at milby7.com > On Sep 16, 2022, at 10:47 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > weird. we've got 16.1 on our ipads. the LC app we're running on them is > working fine in landscape. > >> On Thu, Sep 15, 2022 at 9:31 PM Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode >> wrote: >> >> Aloha Everyone >> >> Well I was involved in iOS 16. Just yesterday. >> >> It downloaded to my phone (iPhone 13, with Version 16.0 – 20A362) . When I >> did that, none of stacks of my stacks will do landscape! >> >> stack “wordpuzzle” >> >> on preOpenStack >> >> if isMobile() then >> >> mobileSetAllowedOrientations "landscape left,landscape >> right" >> >> mobileSetFullScreenRectForOrientations "landscape >> left,landscape right","0,0,736,414" >> >> set the fullscreenmode of this stack to "showAll" -- >> better for wider screens >> >> end if >> >> hide grc "blankScreen" >> >> setCardCoords "landscape" >> >> end preOpenStack >> >> stack “view_BrowserLandscape” >> >> >> >> on preopenstack >> >> local tBrowser, tOrientations >> >> set the fullscreenmode of this stack to empty >> >> put the short name this stack into tBrowser >> >> put (tBrowser contains "landscape") into sLandscapeOnly >> >> put "landscape left,landscape right" into tOrientations >> >> if sLandscapeOnly then >> >> put "landscape" into sOrientation >> >> else >> >> put "portrait,portrait upside down," before tOrientations >> >> put "portrait" into sOrientation >> >> end if >> >> setCardCoords sOrientation >> >> if isMobile() then >> >> mobileSetAllowedOrientations tOrientations >> >> end if >> >> resetUI >> >> hide grc "blankImage" >> >> send "showBrowser" to me in 10 seconds >> >> end preopenstack >> >> Where is the newest download. >> >> https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ >> >> LiveCode 9.6.9 RC 1, 10 August 2022 >> >> RC 1 >> Release Notes< >> https://livecodestatic.com/downloads/livecode/9_6_9/LiveCodeNotes-9_6_9_rc_1.pdf >>> >> 10 August 2 >> >> >> Brahmanathaswami >> >> >> >> >> And it not there! >> >> >> Did see SivaSiva 1.7.2? It on the iPhone – App Store. >> >> Svasti Astu – Be Well >> Brahmanathaswami >> >> Get SivaSiva.app – It free! >> https://www.himalayanacademy.com/view/sivasiva >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From harrison at all-auctions.com Fri Sep 16 11:10:35 2022 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (harrison at all-auctions.com) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2022 11:10:35 -0400 Subject: iOS 16! It will not do landscape! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Perhaps the screen lock is turned on so it only shows stuff in portrait mode? > On Sep 16, 2022, at 10:45 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > weird. we've got 16.1 on our ipads. the LC app we're running on them is > working fine in landscape. > > On Thu, Sep 15, 2022 at 9:31 PM Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode > wrote: > >> Aloha Everyone >> >> Well I was involved in iOS 16. Just yesterday. >> >> It downloaded to my phone (iPhone 13, with Version 16.0 – 20A362) . When I >> did that, none of stacks of my stacks will do landscape! >> >> stack “wordpuzzle” >> >> on preOpenStack >> >> if isMobile() then >> >> mobileSetAllowedOrientations "landscape left,landscape >> right" >> >> mobileSetFullScreenRectForOrientations "landscape >> left,landscape right","0,0,736,414" >> >> set the fullscreenmode of this stack to "showAll" -- >> better for wider screens >> >> end if >> >> hide grc "blankScreen" >> >> setCardCoords "landscape" >> >> end preOpenStack >> >> stack “view_BrowserLandscape” >> >> >> >> on preopenstack >> >> local tBrowser, tOrientations >> >> set the fullscreenmode of this stack to empty >> >> put the short name this stack into tBrowser >> >> put (tBrowser contains "landscape") into sLandscapeOnly >> >> put "landscape left,landscape right" into tOrientations >> >> if sLandscapeOnly then >> >> put "landscape" into sOrientation >> >> else >> >> put "portrait,portrait upside down," before tOrientations >> >> put "portrait" into sOrientation >> >> end if >> >> setCardCoords sOrientation >> >> if isMobile() then >> >> mobileSetAllowedOrientations tOrientations >> >> end if >> >> resetUI >> >> hide grc "blankImage" >> >> send "showBrowser" to me in 10 seconds >> >> end preopenstack >> >> Where is the newest download. >> >> https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ >> >> LiveCode 9.6.9 RC 1, 10 August 2022 >> >> RC 1 >> Release Notes< >> https://livecodestatic.com/downloads/livecode/9_6_9/LiveCodeNotes-9_6_9_rc_1.pdf >>> >> 10 August 2 >> >> >> Brahmanathaswami >> >> >> >> >> And it not there! >> >> >> Did see SivaSiva 1.7.2? It on the iPhone – App Store. >> >> Svasti Astu – Be Well >> Brahmanathaswami >> >> Get SivaSiva.app – It free! >> https://www.himalayanacademy.com/view/sivasiva >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From brian at milby7.com Fri Sep 16 11:27:52 2022 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2022 11:27:52 -0400 Subject: iOS 16! It will not do landscape! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2C81F73C-9BD6-407E-A142-B47945B3CB6B@milby7.com> It is not an orientation lock issue. I’ve submitted a bug report but didn’t have iOS 16 loaded yet and have not had a chance to build some test apps to narrow down the details of the issue. Apple did make changes in iOS 16 with how apps request a specific orientation. Brian Milby brian at milby7.com > On Sep 16, 2022, at 11:11 AM, harrison--- via use-livecode wrote: > > Perhaps the screen lock is turned on so it only shows stuff in portrait mode? > >> On Sep 16, 2022, at 10:45 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: >> >> weird. we've got 16.1 on our ipads. the LC app we're running on them is >> working fine in landscape. >> >>> On Thu, Sep 15, 2022 at 9:31 PM Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode >>> wrote: >>> >>> Aloha Everyone >>> >>> Well I was involved in iOS 16. Just yesterday. >>> >>> It downloaded to my phone (iPhone 13, with Version 16.0 – 20A362) . When I >>> did that, none of stacks of my stacks will do landscape! >>> >>> stack “wordpuzzle” >>> >>> on preOpenStack >>> >>> if isMobile() then >>> >>> mobileSetAllowedOrientations "landscape left,landscape >>> right" >>> >>> mobileSetFullScreenRectForOrientations "landscape >>> left,landscape right","0,0,736,414" >>> >>> set the fullscreenmode of this stack to "showAll" -- >>> better for wider screens >>> >>> end if >>> >>> hide grc "blankScreen" >>> >>> setCardCoords "landscape" >>> >>> end preOpenStack >>> >>> stack “view_BrowserLandscape” >>> >>> >>> >>> on preopenstack >>> >>> local tBrowser, tOrientations >>> >>> set the fullscreenmode of this stack to empty >>> >>> put the short name this stack into tBrowser >>> >>> put (tBrowser contains "landscape") into sLandscapeOnly >>> >>> put "landscape left,landscape right" into tOrientations >>> >>> if sLandscapeOnly then >>> >>> put "landscape" into sOrientation >>> >>> else >>> >>> put "portrait,portrait upside down," before tOrientations >>> >>> put "portrait" into sOrientation >>> >>> end if >>> >>> setCardCoords sOrientation >>> >>> if isMobile() then >>> >>> mobileSetAllowedOrientations tOrientations >>> >>> end if >>> >>> resetUI >>> >>> hide grc "blankImage" >>> >>> send "showBrowser" to me in 10 seconds >>> >>> end preopenstack >>> >>> Where is the newest download. >>> >>> https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ >>> >>> LiveCode 9.6.9 RC 1, 10 August 2022 >>> >>> RC 1 >>> Release Notes< >>> https://livecodestatic.com/downloads/livecode/9_6_9/LiveCodeNotes-9_6_9_rc_1.pdf >>>> >>> 10 August 2 >>> >>> >>> Brahmanathaswami >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> And it not there! >>> >>> >>> Did see SivaSiva 1.7.2? It on the iPhone – App Store. >>> >>> Svasti Astu – Be Well >>> Brahmanathaswami >>> >>> Get SivaSiva.app – It free! >>> https://www.himalayanacademy.com/view/sivasiva >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> >> -- >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >> On the second day, God created the oceans. >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> and did a little diving. >> And God said, "This is good." >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From hlowe at me.com Fri Sep 16 16:54:23 2022 From: hlowe at me.com (HENRY LOWE) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2022 21:54:23 +0100 Subject: iOS 16! It will not do landscape! In-Reply-To: <2C81F73C-9BD6-407E-A142-B47945B3CB6B@milby7.com> References: <2C81F73C-9BD6-407E-A142-B47945B3CB6B@milby7.com> Message-ID: I have an iOS app that supports both portrait and landscape mode on the iPhone. It continues to work as expected in iOS 16. I don’t use LC’s built-in commands but instead use proprietary code to handle screen redraws. Henry > On Sep 16, 2022, at 4:27 PM, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote: > > It is not an orientation lock issue. I’ve submitted a bug report but didn’t have iOS 16 loaded yet and have not had a chance to build some test apps to narrow down the details of the issue. Apple did make changes in iOS 16 with how apps request a specific orientation. > > Brian Milby > brian at milby7.com > >> On Sep 16, 2022, at 11:11 AM, harrison--- via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Perhaps the screen lock is turned on so it only shows stuff in portrait mode? >> >>> On Sep 16, 2022, at 10:45 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> weird. we've got 16.1 on our ipads. the LC app we're running on them is >>> working fine in landscape. >>> >>>> On Thu, Sep 15, 2022 at 9:31 PM Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Aloha Everyone >>>> >>>> Well I was involved in iOS 16. Just yesterday. >>>> >>>> It downloaded to my phone (iPhone 13, with Version 16.0 – 20A362) . When I >>>> did that, none of stacks of my stacks will do landscape! >>>> >>>> stack “wordpuzzle” >>>> >>>> on preOpenStack >>>> >>>> if isMobile() then >>>> >>>> mobileSetAllowedOrientations "landscape left,landscape >>>> right" >>>> >>>> mobileSetFullScreenRectForOrientations "landscape >>>> left,landscape right","0,0,736,414" >>>> >>>> set the fullscreenmode of this stack to "showAll" -- >>>> better for wider screens >>>> >>>> end if >>>> >>>> hide grc "blankScreen" >>>> >>>> setCardCoords "landscape" >>>> >>>> end preOpenStack >>>> >>>> stack “view_BrowserLandscape” >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> on preopenstack >>>> >>>> local tBrowser, tOrientations >>>> >>>> set the fullscreenmode of this stack to empty >>>> >>>> put the short name this stack into tBrowser >>>> >>>> put (tBrowser contains "landscape") into sLandscapeOnly >>>> >>>> put "landscape left,landscape right" into tOrientations >>>> >>>> if sLandscapeOnly then >>>> >>>> put "landscape" into sOrientation >>>> >>>> else >>>> >>>> put "portrait,portrait upside down," before tOrientations >>>> >>>> put "portrait" into sOrientation >>>> >>>> end if >>>> >>>> setCardCoords sOrientation >>>> >>>> if isMobile() then >>>> >>>> mobileSetAllowedOrientations tOrientations >>>> >>>> end if >>>> >>>> resetUI >>>> >>>> hide grc "blankImage" >>>> >>>> send "showBrowser" to me in 10 seconds >>>> >>>> end preopenstack >>>> >>>> Where is the newest download. >>>> >>>> https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ >>>> >>>> LiveCode 9.6.9 RC 1, 10 August 2022 >>>> >>>> RC 1 >>>> Release Notes< >>>> https://livecodestatic.com/downloads/livecode/9_6_9/LiveCodeNotes-9_6_9_rc_1.pdf >>>>> >>>> 10 August 2 >>>> >>>> >>>> Brahmanathaswami >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> And it not there! >>>> >>>> >>>> Did see SivaSiva 1.7.2? It on the iPhone – App Store. >>>> >>>> Svasti Astu – Be Well >>>> Brahmanathaswami >>>> >>>> Get SivaSiva.app – It free! >>>> https://www.himalayanacademy.com/view/sivasiva >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >>> On the second day, God created the oceans. >>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >>> and did a little diving. >>> And God said, "This is good." >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Sep 16 18:35:51 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2022 17:35:51 -0500 Subject: Web app checkbox buttons Message-ID: <187661e8-560d-b57a-c85c-d4163a251eb2@hyperactivesw.com> When a web app is run in a browser there are two buttons at the upper right: "Resize canvas" and "Lock/hide mouse pointer". What do these do? There is also a "Fullscreen" button that throws a javascript error. If/when it works, is it supposed to change the browser window to full screen? Or just make the stack content fit the window? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From alex at tweedly.net Fri Sep 16 19:35:03 2022 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2022 00:35:03 +0100 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: <001b01d8c919$14886c80$3d994580$@net> References: <6AF5BE8C-DC3F-4EA9-8490-BA6DDDD7DD7E@m-r-d.de> <002d01d8c477$3f7e1710$be7a4530$@net> <000d01d8c53c$f3cc6d00$db654700$@net> <001b01d8c919$14886c80$3d994580$@net> Message-ID: <5fd6cbaf-3070-657b-6668-e85ac4bd042f@tweedly.net> On 15/09/2022 16:37, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote: > Docs aside... I still think that widgets and lcb is one of best additions to > LC. Community collaboration like this will make for better documentation and > more new/improved widgets. A robust library of widgets can only help LC to > penetrate the market. If only we had these when I started... I so much want to agree - but unfortunately it looks to me more like the biggest missed opportunity. The combination of widgets and LCB is a powerful one (and may indeed be one of the best additions). But I think if you unpick and pull apart the two parts (widget vs LCB) then there is what looks, to the naive observer like me, a missed chance. Widgets + LCB gives us (amongst other things): 1. naming + distribution + installation schemes. 2. integration with the docs / dictionary and IDE tools (inspectors, editors) 3. efficient "direct" drawing to canvas 4. typed variables 5. access to foreign languages / libraries. 6. maybe potential for future performance gains. But of those, only the last two *require* LCB; the others *could* have been done in a way that allows LCScript authors to benefit. (1) and (2) are clearly feasible for LCS almost without change from what's been done for LCB widgets, and I have to believe it would have been possible to provide LCS commands and functions to manipulate the canvas. Given those three things, many of the widgets (e.g. rotatedtext, navRAD) look like they could have been done easily using LCS. I still hold on to the hope that this will become a feature in some future release. And when (if) it ever does, then maybe we will see "1000 widgets by Christmas" because it will be so much more approachable for the average LS Scripter. Alex. From jacques.clavel at gmail.com Sat Sep 17 03:54:53 2022 From: jacques.clavel at gmail.com (Jacques Clavel) Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2022 09:54:53 +0200 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: <5fd6cbaf-3070-657b-6668-e85ac4bd042f@tweedly.net> References: <6AF5BE8C-DC3F-4EA9-8490-BA6DDDD7DD7E@m-r-d.de> <002d01d8c477$3f7e1710$be7a4530$@net> <000d01d8c53c$f3cc6d00$db654700$@net> <001b01d8c919$14886c80$3d994580$@net> <5fd6cbaf-3070-657b-6668-e85ac4bd042f@tweedly.net> Message-ID: point 6. maybe potential for future performance gains : - But today LCB is surprisingly less efficient (/3) than LCS (???) JC Le sam. 17 sept. 2022 à 01:35, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> a écrit : > > On 15/09/2022 16:37, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote: > > Docs aside... I still think that widgets and lcb is one of best > additions to > > LC. Community collaboration like this will make for better documentation > and > > more new/improved widgets. A robust library of widgets can only help LC > to > > penetrate the market. If only we had these when I started... > > I so much want to agree - but unfortunately it looks to me more like the > biggest missed opportunity. > > The combination of widgets and LCB is a powerful one (and may indeed be > one of the best additions). But I think if you unpick and pull apart the > two parts (widget vs LCB) then there is what looks, to the naive > observer like me, a missed chance. > > Widgets + LCB gives us (amongst other things): > > 1. naming + distribution + installation schemes. > > 2. integration with the docs / dictionary and IDE tools (inspectors, > editors) > > 3. efficient "direct" drawing to canvas > > 4. typed variables > > 5. access to foreign languages / libraries. > > 6. maybe potential for future performance gains. > > > But of those, only the last two *require* LCB; the others *could* have > been done in a way that allows LCScript authors to benefit. (1) and (2) > are clearly feasible for LCS almost without change from what's been done > for LCB widgets, and I have to believe it would have been possible to > provide LCS commands and functions to manipulate the canvas. > > Given those three things, many of the widgets (e.g. rotatedtext, navRAD) > look like they could have been done easily using LCS. > > I still hold on to the hope that this will become a feature in some > future release. And when (if) it ever does, then maybe we will see "1000 > widgets by Christmas" because it will be so much more approachable for > the average LS Scripter. > > Alex. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Jacques Clavel From alex at tweedly.net Sat Sep 17 07:01:18 2022 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2022 12:01:18 +0100 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <6AF5BE8C-DC3F-4EA9-8490-BA6DDDD7DD7E@m-r-d.de> <002d01d8c477$3f7e1710$be7a4530$@net> <000d01d8c53c$f3cc6d00$db654700$@net> <001b01d8c919$14886c80$3d994580$@net> <5fd6cbaf-3070-657b-6668-e85ac4bd042f@tweedly.net> Message-ID: On 17/09/2022 08:54, Jacques Clavel via use-livecode wrote: > point 6. maybe potential for future performance gains : > - But today LCB is surprisingly less efficient (/3) than LCS (???) > Yes, at first glance it is surprising; typed variables etc. *should* make it possible to be more efficient. And I think some day they will. But for now, I think that isn't, and shouldn't be, a priority for LC Ltd. The intended uses for LCB are to interface to other libraries/languages, and to provide graphic / UI widgets - and performance is not critical to either of those roles. If I have a LC app which is suffering performance, I should first look at the algorithm, the data structures, engine features I might be able to use, ...., separate process, ... And if none of them fix it for me, then I'm probably going to want a high-performance library in some other language (C, C++, even NumPY, whatever) which allows it to be highly optimized. My new slogan : If I'm suffering for performance, I don't want a 10% improvement from LCB, I want a 10x improvement from C. Alex. From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sat Sep 17 08:57:09 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2022 08:57:09 -0400 Subject: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual In-Reply-To: References: <6AF5BE8C-DC3F-4EA9-8490-BA6DDDD7DD7E@m-r-d.de> <002d01d8c477$3f7e1710$be7a4530$@net> <000d01d8c53c$f3cc6d00$db654700$@net> <001b01d8c919$14886c80$3d994580$@net> <5fd6cbaf-3070-657b-6668-e85ac4bd042f@tweedly.net> Message-ID: Have a look at the CompileIt! manual again. That was 1990. There was no special intermediate language to get toolbox rom or native library calls. LC's choice to engineer LCB the way it did was a choice. It obviously makes it less approachable to the customer. Maybe it makes it easier for the team. Unfortunately, what REALLY makes it less approachable to us, as customers, is all of the work that has to go in to learning it due to the thin documentation, and how long it takes to debug it because the tools are not groovy. (Oh, look, a syntax error! What exactly is the error?) If you have used tmControls (https://github.com/macMikey/tmControl), you will see that it's more than possible to build beautiful controls with LCS. In some cases, native interface objects are great, but in a lot of cases, they are completely overrated (I'm looking at you,flat iOS button). In the meantime, for all of you that are interested, please stop over at the LCB Missing Manual repo on github ( https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual). The wiki is an attempt to build a real LCB manual. The issues are for all of the things that get you stuck, so please post. That will help the wiki get better. From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sat Sep 17 21:40:45 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2022 21:40:45 -0400 Subject: calling all LCB/widget/property editor/property inspector nerds Message-ID: are there any more LCB/widget/property editor/property inspector nerds in here? I'm messing with the next iteration of the navBar/navRAD, and in the weeds, with no documentation to help guide the way. -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From livfoss at mac.com Mon Sep 19 11:43:07 2022 From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2022 17:43:07 +0200 Subject: Calendar interfaces Message-ID: Folks, I have not been following this list with great attention for the last few months, nor doing active LC development, so I’ve missed a lot, but now I have been asked to look into the possibility of an app that reads and writes to standard calendars, particularly the kind used by Apple. I believe their apps for Mac and iOS use some kind of open standard, and if so there must be a useable API. To save me lots of research, can I ask if anyone has worked with calendars like these, and if so, can they point me to an easy way to get LC to talk to them. TIA Graham From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon Sep 19 12:05:43 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2022 16:05:43 +0000 Subject: Calendar interfaces In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <84A3BBD8-0DAE-49E3-B41D-C6BD6E99188C@iotecdigital.com> Hi Graham. I was just looking at this myself. I think the best way to work with calendars is to send an email with an iCalendar file (.ics). I will send you a zip file of an example with attachment to your personal email. It's pretty straight forward, but the file attachment is base 64 encoded binary so be aware of that. .ics files are simply specially formatted text files. Most email clients when they detect an ics file with an invite embedded will give you an accept/decline option. That being said, I know that MacOS calendar app is Applescript enabled, and if you open an ics file in windows with the command prompt, it will launch the default calendar app and add the event to the default calendar. Here is a link for the RFC 5545 spec, but I warn you it is a lot, and you really don't need to know all of it. The example I send you will teach you more than anything else: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc5545#section-3.7 Bob S On Sep 19, 2022, at 08:43 , Graham Samuel via use-livecode > wrote: Folks, I have not been following this list with great attention for the last few months, nor doing active LC development, so I’ve missed a lot, but now I have been asked to look into the possibility of an app that reads and writes to standard calendars, particularly the kind used by Apple. I believe their apps for Mac and iOS use some kind of open standard, and if so there must be a useable API. To save me lots of research, can I ask if anyone has worked with calendars like these, and if so, can they point me to an easy way to get LC to talk to them. TIA Graham _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From livfoss at mac.com Mon Sep 19 12:12:31 2022 From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2022 18:12:31 +0200 Subject: Calendar interfaces In-Reply-To: <84A3BBD8-0DAE-49E3-B41D-C6BD6E99188C@iotecdigital.com> References: <84A3BBD8-0DAE-49E3-B41D-C6BD6E99188C@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <650072F0-EE0E-4429-80FA-020096B7935A@mac.com> Wow! That was a quick reply! Thanks so much. I will look forward very much to learning from you example file. Graham > On 19 Sep 2022, at 18:05, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Graham. I was just looking at this myself. I think the best way to work with calendars is to send an email with an iCalendar file (.ics). I will send you a zip file of an example with attachment to your personal email. It's pretty straight forward, but the file attachment is base 64 encoded binary so be aware of that. .ics files are simply specially formatted text files. Most email clients when they detect an ics file with an invite embedded will give you an accept/decline option. > > That being said, I know that MacOS calendar app is Applescript enabled, and if you open an ics file in windows with the command prompt, it will launch the default calendar app and add the event to the default calendar. > > > Here is a link for the RFC 5545 spec, but I warn you it is a lot, and you really don't need to know all of it. The example I send you will teach you more than anything else: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc5545#section-3.7 > > Bob S > > > On Sep 19, 2022, at 08:43 , Graham Samuel via use-livecode > wrote: > > Folks, I have not been following this list with great attention for the last few months, nor doing active LC development, so I’ve missed a lot, but now I have been asked to look into the possibility of an app that reads and writes to standard calendars, particularly the kind used by Apple. I believe their apps for Mac and iOS use some kind of open standard, and if so there must be a useable API. > > To save me lots of research, can I ask if anyone has worked with calendars like these, and if so, can they point me to an easy way to get LC to talk to them. > > TIA > > Graham > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From andre at andregarzia.com Tue Sep 20 06:28:22 2022 From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2022 11:28:22 +0100 Subject: Calendar interfaces In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0CA0B99A-EB9F-4DF3-AB95-4CEDAC34A6CD@andregarzia.com> Graham, In 2005 I wrote a library to parse and generate vCards and iCalendar files. It is a very old library I wrote when I was still early in my LiveCode journey. It works but it is underdocumented. There are commands and functions to generate an iCalendar file and there are some “raw” vObject (the common part of vCards and iCal files) functions that can be used to parse them. I don’t think this is a turn-key solution for your problem but it is a good starting point to develop your own solution. I’ve uploaded it to: https://andregarzia.com/files/vObjectPackage.livecode.zip The iCal part is not documented but it is on the source code. Learn the vCard documentation and you’ll get a feel for how the iCal part should work. Then, look at the source of “vObjectlib” substack for the command names. Best Andre > On 19 Sep 2022, at 16:43, Graham Samuel via use-livecode wrote: > > Folks, I have not been following this list with great attention for the last few months, nor doing active LC development, so I’ve missed a lot, but now I have been asked to look into the possibility of an app that reads and writes to standard calendars, particularly the kind used by Apple. I believe their apps for Mac and iOS use some kind of open standard, and if so there must be a useable API. > > To save me lots of research, can I ask if anyone has worked with calendars like these, and if so, can they point me to an easy way to get LC to talk to them. > > TIA > > Graham > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Tue Sep 20 12:59:50 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2022 12:59:50 -0400 Subject: [LCB]custom property editor Message-ID: the megabundle widgets have custom property editors bundled with them in their /editors folder. unfortunately, i cannot find any documentation on how to do this. i'm assuming we would use a metadata variant, but of course there does not seem to be any documentation on how to do that. i have tried embedding both /editors/ and editors/ in the editor metadata, but that does not seem to work. any ideas? -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Tue Sep 20 17:02:13 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2022 17:02:13 -0400 Subject: lc 9.8 with xc 13.2.1 Message-ID: The notes for 9.8 says it supports xc 13.2, and i'm seeing others using 13.2.1 I'm getting an error with 13.2.1. (error linking for arm - "iphoneos 15.2" cannot be located) building for ios 9 or later -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From merakosp at gmail.com Wed Sep 21 03:24:18 2022 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis m) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2022 10:24:18 +0300 Subject: lc 9.8 with xc 13.2.1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Mike, Yes, 13.2.1 should work too. Where have you stored Xcode? Did you by any chance rename the Xcode.app bundle? Kind regards, Panos -- On Wed, 21 Sept 2022 at 00:04, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > The notes for 9.8 says it supports xc 13.2, and i'm seeing others using > 13.2.1 > I'm getting an error with 13.2.1. > (error linking for arm - "iphoneos 15.2" cannot be located) > building for ios 9 or later > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From merakosp at gmail.com Wed Sep 21 03:29:04 2022 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis m) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2022 10:29:04 +0300 Subject: lc 9.8 with xc 13.2.1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Also, what does this return (in the Terminal): xcode-select -p Cheers, Panos On Wed, 21 Sept 2022 at 10:24, panagiotis m wrote: > Hello Mike, > > Yes, 13.2.1 should work too. > > Where have you stored Xcode? Did you by any chance rename the Xcode.app > bundle? > > Kind regards, > Panos > -- > > On Wed, 21 Sept 2022 at 00:04, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> The notes for 9.8 says it supports xc 13.2, and i'm seeing others using >> 13.2.1 >> I'm getting an error with 13.2.1. >> (error linking for arm - "iphoneos 15.2" cannot be located) >> building for ios 9 or later >> >> -- >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >> On the second day, God created the oceans. >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> and did a little diving. >> And God said, "This is good." >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed Sep 21 07:46:19 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2022 07:46:19 -0400 Subject: lc 9.8 with xc 13.2.1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: OMFG SCREW YOU, PANOS anyway, if it was /XCode 12.5.1/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer executing sudo xcode-select -s /Applications/Xcode fixed it On Wed, Sep 21, 2022 at 3:30 AM panagiotis m via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Also, what does this return (in the Terminal): > > xcode-select -p > > Cheers, > Panos > > On Wed, 21 Sept 2022 at 10:24, panagiotis m wrote: > > > Hello Mike, > > > > Yes, 13.2.1 should work too. > > > > Where have you stored Xcode? Did you by any chance rename the Xcode.app > > bundle? > > > > Kind regards, > > Panos > > -- > > > > On Wed, 21 Sept 2022 at 00:04, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > >> The notes for 9.8 says it supports xc 13.2, and i'm seeing others using > >> 13.2.1 > >> I'm getting an error with 13.2.1. > >> (error linking for arm - "iphoneos 15.2" cannot be located) > >> building for ios 9 or later > >> > >> -- > >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > >> On the second day, God created the oceans. > >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > >> and did a little diving. > >> And God said, "This is good." > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed Sep 21 19:37:56 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2022 19:37:56 -0400 Subject: [LCB]custom property editor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: never mind, i went on a bear hunt in the ide and found it. If someone stumbles on this thread, you can find the information in the LiveCode Builder Missing Manual wiki ( https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual/wiki) On Tue, Sep 20, 2022 at 12:59 PM Mike Kerner wrote: > the megabundle widgets have custom property editors bundled with them in > their /editors folder. unfortunately, i cannot find any documentation on > how to do this. i'm assuming we would use a metadata variant, but of course > there does not seem to be any documentation on how to do that. i have tried > embedding both /editors/ and editors/ in the editor metadata, but that does > not seem to work. > any ideas? > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From gcanyon at gmail.com Thu Sep 22 15:58:57 2022 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2022 12:58:57 -0700 Subject: Weird performance issue Message-ID: I was testing something for Navigator and found the following: put the long seconds into T repeat 10000 get there is a card 1 of stack "untitled 1" --get there is a card 1 of stack "revnavigator" end repeat put the long seconds - T into T put T -- puts 0.005 or so put the long seconds into T repeat 10000 --get there is a card 1 of stack "untitled 1" get there is a card 1 of stack "revnavigator" end repeat put the long seconds - T into T put T -- puts 1.2 Why in the world would it take over 200x as long to identify that there is a card 1 of Navigator vs. a random stack I just created? I just checked and: stack "message" -- over 3 seconds -- a second run was 0.4 stack "revdictionary" -- 1.5 seconds stack "home" -- 0.02 seconds I ran it across everything in the environment and got results from under a hundredth of a second to over a second, with stacks pretty smoothly across that range. No clue what's causing it. From tom at makeshyft.com Thu Sep 22 19:32:49 2022 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2022 19:32:49 -0400 Subject: PolyGrid Message-ID: Hello Folks, I'm wondering if there is any official documentation for the polygrid and polylist widgets. Like a place that tells you what messages the grid listens to and etc. Something in written form? Thanks -- Tom Glod Founder & Developer @ MakeShyft R.D.A Build Software with AppStarterStack for Livecode From craig at starfirelighting.com Fri Sep 23 09:45:10 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2022 09:45:10 -0400 Subject: Weird performance issue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6CB38AC4-4F31-4A25-8DD6-0EA1D13631FF@starfirelighting.com> Geoff. I get over 5 seconds for the “revNavigatior” So I modified your handler just a bit, to only a But “revNaviigator” does not appear on that list. So there must be a longer pathway for LC to find a stack that certainly must be in memory, but that does not appear in the “stacks” list? Craig > On Sep 22, 2022, at 3:58 PM, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode wrote: > > put the long seconds into T > repeat 10000 > get there is a card 1 of stack "untitled 1" > --get there is a card 1 of stack "revnavigator" > end repeat > put the long seconds - T into T > put T > -- puts 0.005 or so > > put the long seconds into T > repeat 10000 > --get there is a card 1 of stack "untitled 1" > get there is a card 1 of stack "revnavigator" > end repeat > put the long seconds - T into T > put T > -- puts 1.2 From craig at starfirelighting.com Fri Sep 23 09:47:56 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2022 09:47:56 -0400 Subject: Weird performance issue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <815CBBDD-46B4-4F68-B12D-B102598874D9@starfirelighting.com> Something weird happened to my post. I modified your handler to access only those stacks that appear when calling the function “the stacks”. In all those cases, the return time was only a few tenths of a second. But “revNaviigator” does not appear on that list. So there must be a longer pathway for LC to find a stack that certainly must be in memory, but that does not appear in the “stacks” list? Craig > On Sep 22, 2022, at 3:58 PM, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode wrote: > > I was testing something for Navigator and found the following: > > put the long seconds into T > repeat 10000 > get there is a card 1 of stack "untitled 1" > --get there is a card 1 of stack "revnavigator" > end repeat > put the long seconds - T into T > put T > -- puts 0.005 or so > > put the long seconds into T > repeat 10000 > --get there is a card 1 of stack "untitled 1" > get there is a card 1 of stack "revnavigator" > end repeat > put the long seconds - T into T > put T > -- puts 1.2 > > Why in the world would it take over 200x as long to identify that there is > a card 1 of Navigator vs. a random stack I just created? > > I just checked and: > stack "message" -- over 3 seconds -- a second run was 0.4 > stack "revdictionary" -- 1.5 seconds > stack "home" -- 0.02 seconds > > I ran it across everything in the environment and got results from under a > hundredth of a second to over a second, with stacks pretty smoothly across > that range. No clue what's causing it. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From gcanyon at gmail.com Fri Sep 23 10:34:59 2022 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2022 07:34:59 -0700 Subject: Weird performance issue In-Reply-To: <815CBBDD-46B4-4F68-B12D-B102598874D9@starfirelighting.com> References: <815CBBDD-46B4-4F68-B12D-B102598874D9@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: Hmm, this is what "the stacks" returns for me: /Users/gcanyon/Desktop/nav tester 0.004608 /Applications/LiveCode 9.6.8.app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/palettes/script-editor/revscripteditor.rev 0.272558 /Applications/LiveCode 9.6.8.app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/palettes/tools-palette/revtools.livecodescript 0.440798 /Applications/LiveCode 9.6.8.app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/palettes/dictionary/revdictionary.livecode 1.72743 /Applications/LiveCode 9.6.8.app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/palettes/menubar/revmenubar.livecodescript 0.421698 /Users/gcanyon/Desktop/nav tester 0.00453 0.007308 /Applications/LiveCode 9.6.8.app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/palettes/inspector/revinspector.livecodescript 1.565991 /Users/gcanyon/Documents/My LiveCode/Plugins/Navigator.rev 1.348666 Note the super long times for the dictionary, the inspector, and navigator, the mediocre times for others, and the super fast time for the stack actually running the code. I'm on an M1 mac running 9.6.8 On Fri, Sep 23, 2022 at 6:48 AM Craig Newman via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Something weird happened to my post. > > I modified your handler to access only those stacks that appear when > calling the function “the stacks”. In all those cases, the return time was > only a few tenths of a second. > > But “revNaviigator” does not appear on that list. So there must be a > longer pathway for LC to find a stack that certainly must be in memory, but > that does not appear in the “stacks” list? > > Craig > > > On Sep 22, 2022, at 3:58 PM, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > I was testing something for Navigator and found the following: > > > > put the long seconds into T > > repeat 10000 > > get there is a card 1 of stack "untitled 1" > > --get there is a card 1 of stack "revnavigator" > > end repeat > > put the long seconds - T into T > > put T > > -- puts 0.005 or so > > > > put the long seconds into T > > repeat 10000 > > --get there is a card 1 of stack "untitled 1" > > get there is a card 1 of stack "revnavigator" > > end repeat > > put the long seconds - T into T > > put T > > -- puts 1.2 > > > > Why in the world would it take over 200x as long to identify that there > is > > a card 1 of Navigator vs. a random stack I just created? > > > > I just checked and: > > stack "message" -- over 3 seconds -- a second run was 0.4 > > stack "revdictionary" -- 1.5 seconds > > stack "home" -- 0.02 seconds > > > > I ran it across everything in the environment and got results from under > a > > hundredth of a second to over a second, with stacks pretty smoothly > across > > that range. No clue what's causing it. > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From klaus at major-k.de Fri Sep 23 11:46:47 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2022 17:46:47 +0200 Subject: PolyGrid In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Tom, > Am 23.09.2022 um 01:32 schrieb Tom Glod via use-livecode : > > Hello Folks, > > I'm wondering if there is any official documentation for the polygrid and > polylist widgets. > Like a place that tells you what messages the grid listens to and etc. > Something in written form? yes, check the dictionary for PolyList and PolyGrid. > Thanks > > -- > Tom Glod Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Sep 23 13:40:40 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2022 12:40:40 -0500 Subject: Weird performance issue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1836b6fe9c0.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> It may be related to the size of the stack. LC would have to load it all into memory before checking the cards. Also, do the results change if you lock messages? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On September 22, 2022 3:01:48 PM Geoff Canyon via use-livecode wrote: > I was testing something for Navigator and found the following: > > put the long seconds into T > repeat 10000 > get there is a card 1 of stack "untitled 1" > --get there is a card 1 of stack "revnavigator" > end repeat > put the long seconds - T into T > put T > -- puts 0.005 or so > > put the long seconds into T > repeat 10000 > --get there is a card 1 of stack "untitled 1" > get there is a card 1 of stack "revnavigator" > end repeat > put the long seconds - T into T > put T > -- puts 1.2 > > Why in the world would it take over 200x as long to identify that there is > a card 1 of Navigator vs. a random stack I just created? > > I just checked and: > stack "message" -- over 3 seconds -- a second run was 0.4 > stack "revdictionary" -- 1.5 seconds > stack "home" -- 0.02 seconds > > I ran it across everything in the environment and got results from under a > hundredth of a second to over a second, with stacks pretty smoothly across > that range. No clue what's causing it. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ahsoftware at sonic.net Fri Sep 23 14:07:17 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2022 11:07:17 -0700 Subject: Weird performance issue In-Reply-To: <1836b6fe9c0.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <1836b6fe9c0.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <97d00205-4a08-f776-335f-584579364e3b@sonic.net> On 9/23/22 10:40, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > It may be related to the size of the stack. LC would have to load it all > into memory before checking the cards. Also, do the results change if > you lock messages? You also do a *lot* of work on both opening the stack and opening the card. And looping through that many times in your test. Your loop test doesn't really simulate real-world conditions for Navigator, so I don't think I'd worry about it too much. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From tom at makeshyft.com Fri Sep 23 14:09:54 2022 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2022 14:09:54 -0400 Subject: PolyGrid In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Klaus, Its strange that it didn't occur to me to check there, I assumed it was not updated. :D My bad. Thanks. Tom On Fri, Sep 23, 2022 at 11:47 AM Klaus major-k via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi Tom, > > > Am 23.09.2022 um 01:32 schrieb Tom Glod via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: > > > > Hello Folks, > > > > I'm wondering if there is any official documentation for the polygrid and > > polylist widgets. > > Like a place that tells you what messages the grid listens to and etc. > > Something in written form? > > yes, check the dictionary for PolyList and PolyGrid. > > > Thanks > > > > -- > > Tom Glod > > Best > > Klaus > > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > https://www.major-k.de/bass > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From gcanyon at gmail.com Fri Sep 23 18:41:17 2022 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2022 15:41:17 -0700 Subject: Weird performance issue In-Reply-To: <1836b6fe9c0.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <1836b6fe9c0.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: My test stack had over a thousand cards in it, and was still fast checking the 1000th card. I've now added a field to each of a thousand cards and stuck text in it; the stack is over 12MB and still much faster than Navigator, which is under 1MB. Lock Messages does nothing as far as I can tell. thanks! gc On Fri, Sep 23, 2022 at 10:41 AM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > It may be related to the size of the stack. LC would have to load it all > into memory before checking the cards. Also, do the results change if you > lock messages? > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > On September 22, 2022 3:01:48 PM Geoff Canyon via use-livecode > wrote: > From gcanyon at gmail.com Fri Sep 23 18:43:45 2022 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2022 15:43:45 -0700 Subject: Weird performance issue In-Reply-To: <97d00205-4a08-f776-335f-584579364e3b@sonic.net> References: <1836b6fe9c0.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <97d00205-4a08-f776-335f-584579364e3b@sonic.net> Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 23, 2022 at 11:08 AM Mark Wieder via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 9/23/22 10:40, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > > It may be related to the size of the stack. LC would have to load it all > > into memory before checking the cards. Also, do the results change if > > you lock messages? > > You also do a *lot* of work on both opening the stack and opening the > card. And looping through that many times in your test. Your loop test > doesn't really simulate real-world conditions for Navigator, so I don't > think I'd worry about it too much. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com Why would the stack be opened, or the card, just checking existence? And why would that happen each time rather than once? FYI for all tests the stacks are already open. And: Navigator until the version I'm working on now did exactly this when getting a list of the card names I have no idea why I coded it that way, but checking that method vs. getting the number of cards and then getting the names based on that was what let me to notice this. thanks! gc From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Sep 23 19:43:00 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2022 18:43:00 -0500 Subject: Weird performance issue In-Reply-To: References: <1836b6fe9c0.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <97d00205-4a08-f776-335f-584579364e3b@sonic.net> Message-ID: <1836cbba3a0.27ee.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Are you familiar with the cardnames function? Letting the engine do it for you is always faster. That doesn't answer your question though. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On September 23, 2022 5:46:24 PM Geoff Canyon via use-livecode wrote: > On Fri, Sep 23, 2022 at 11:08 AM Mark Wieder via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> On 9/23/22 10:40, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >> > It may be related to the size of the stack. LC would have to load it all >> > into memory before checking the cards. Also, do the results change if >> > you lock messages? >> >> You also do a *lot* of work on both opening the stack and opening the >> card. And looping through that many times in your test. Your loop test >> doesn't really simulate real-world conditions for Navigator, so I don't >> think I'd worry about it too much. >> >> -- >> Mark Wieder >> ahsoftware at gmail.com > > > Why would the stack be opened, or the card, just checking existence? And > why would that happen each time rather than once? > > FYI for all tests the stacks are already open. > > And: Navigator until the version I'm working on now did exactly this when > getting a list of the card names I have no idea why I coded it that way, > but checking that method vs. getting the number of cards and then getting > the names based on that was what let me to notice this. > > thanks! > > gc > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri Sep 23 21:09:22 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2022 21:09:22 -0400 Subject: PolyGrid In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The docs in the dictionary may not be complete, yet. I filed a report about it, but I don't know if they're all done or not. On Fri, Sep 23, 2022 at 2:11 PM Tom Glod via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Thanks Klaus, > > Its strange that it didn't occur to me to check there, I assumed it was not > updated. :D > My bad. > Thanks. > > Tom > > On Fri, Sep 23, 2022 at 11:47 AM Klaus major-k via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > Hi Tom, > > > > > Am 23.09.2022 um 01:32 schrieb Tom Glod via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: > > > > > > Hello Folks, > > > > > > I'm wondering if there is any official documentation for the polygrid > and > > > polylist widgets. > > > Like a place that tells you what messages the grid listens to and etc. > > > Something in written form? > > > > yes, check the dictionary for PolyList and PolyGrid. > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > -- > > > Tom Glod > > > > Best > > > > Klaus > > > > -- > > Klaus Major > > https://www.major-k.de > > https://www.major-k.de/bass > > klaus at major-k.de > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From gcanyon at gmail.com Fri Sep 23 23:38:49 2022 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2022 20:38:49 -0700 Subject: Weird performance issue In-Reply-To: <1836cbba3a0.27ee.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <1836b6fe9c0.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <97d00205-4a08-f776-335f-584579364e3b@sonic.net> <1836cbba3a0.27ee.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Yep, I'm aware of cardnames. I don't have any memory of why I wrote it this way -- maybe I didn't trust the ordering of cardnames and cardids? Or maybe it made more sense to collect by hand than to stitch together the values? Or maybe I just sucked at that moment in time. gc On Fri, Sep 23, 2022 at 4:44 PM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Are you familiar with the cardnames function? Letting the engine do it for > you is always faster. That doesn't answer your question though. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > On September 23, 2022 5:46:24 PM Geoff Canyon via use-livecode > wrote: > > > On Fri, Sep 23, 2022 at 11:08 AM Mark Wieder via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > >> On 9/23/22 10:40, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > >> > It may be related to the size of the stack. LC would have to load it > all > >> > into memory before checking the cards. Also, do the results change if > >> > you lock messages? > >> > >> You also do a *lot* of work on both opening the stack and opening the > >> card. And looping through that many times in your test. Your loop test > >> doesn't really simulate real-world conditions for Navigator, so I don't > >> think I'd worry about it too much. > >> > >> -- > >> Mark Wieder > >> ahsoftware at gmail.com > > > > > > Why would the stack be opened, or the card, just checking existence? And > > why would that happen each time rather than once? > > > > FYI for all tests the stacks are already open. > > > > And: Navigator until the version I'm working on now did exactly this when > > getting a list of the card names I have no idea why I coded it that way, > > but checking that method vs. getting the number of cards and then getting > > the names based on that was what let me to notice this. > > > > thanks! > > > > gc > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From gcanyon at gmail.com Fri Sep 23 23:51:54 2022 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2022 20:51:54 -0700 Subject: Weird performance issue In-Reply-To: <1836cbba3a0.27ee.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <1836b6fe9c0.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <97d00205-4a08-f776-335f-584579364e3b@sonic.net> <1836cbba3a0.27ee.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 23, 2022 at 4:44 PM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Letting the engine do it for you is always faster. > Interestingly, *just* getting the names and ids for a 1500 card stack is only about 15 times faster using the functions rather than a loop that gets each individually. For my purposes I have to parse the results anyway, which reduces the ratio to about 6 times faster. Enough that I'll definitely rewrite the code, but less than I would have expected. From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sun Sep 25 12:41:07 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2022 12:41:07 -0400 Subject: Hacking LiveCode Message-ID: chasing all the things that aren't documented, but you need to know about LCB took me back into hacking liveCode. it's just getting started. if you have tools or pointers, the repo/wiki/issues/discussion are at https://github.com/macMikey/LC-HACK Project 1: extracting all properties of a widget (because "export" does not export the "base" LC object properties) and applying those properties to an updated version of the widget (because LC is releasing updates to the megabundle widgets almost weekly) Project 2: documenting the LC IDE API's? -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From paul at researchware.com Sun Sep 25 12:58:40 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2022 12:58:40 -0400 Subject: Hacking LiveCode In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9ec1d4e4-6704-7fa5-252f-6e6a65153a6d@researchware.com> On 9/25/2022 12:41 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > chasing all the things that aren't documented, but you need to know about > LCB took me back into hacking liveCode. > it's just getting started. if you have tools or pointers, the > repo/wiki/issues/discussion are at https://github.com/macMikey/LC-HACK > Project 1: extracting all properties of a widget (because "export" does not > export the "base" LC object properties) and applying those properties to an > updated version of the widget (because LC is releasing updates to the > megabundle widgets almost weekly) > Project 2: documenting the LC IDE API's? > A clarification please: Are you saying that if I have version 1.1.2 of PolyGrid (as an example) installed and I have made a stack using 1 or more Polygrids and I now download and install version 1.3.1 (or some newer version) of PolyGrid, that when I open my stack the PolyGrids in that stack do not update from 1.1.2 to 1.3.1? If so, this is a terrible disadvantage of any use of widgets. I feel I must be misunderstanding why exporting properties to re-apply them is needed for updates. From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sun Sep 25 14:11:28 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2022 14:11:28 -0400 Subject: Hacking LiveCode In-Reply-To: <9ec1d4e4-6704-7fa5-252f-6e6a65153a6d@researchware.com> References: <9ec1d4e4-6704-7fa5-252f-6e6a65153a6d@researchware.com> Message-ID: How's this: the expected behavior is not documented (as far as I can find), so I don't know what the expected behavior is. I have tested modifying a widget, rebuilding it, and re-adding it to LC. That does not seem to cause existing widgets to update. Is that a bug in my code, and am I doing something wrong that is leading me down this path? 100% absolutely, positively, maybe, and then I'm just chasing a phantom...again... I also don't think there is a documented way to see what version each widget is in a particular...widget, but I think we might be able to. We can certainly tell which version of a widget is installed in LC (bug report 23952, whose code is going to go into the hack repo, soon). If I am write, and it is not a bug in my code, then it absolutely is a disadvantage to using widgets...until this hack is complete. On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 12:59 PM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 9/25/2022 12:41 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > chasing all the things that aren't documented, but you need to know about > > LCB took me back into hacking liveCode. > > it's just getting started. if you have tools or pointers, the > > repo/wiki/issues/discussion are at https://github.com/macMikey/LC-HACK > > Project 1: extracting all properties of a widget (because "export" does > not > > export the "base" LC object properties) and applying those properties to > an > > updated version of the widget (because LC is releasing updates to the > > megabundle widgets almost weekly) > > Project 2: documenting the LC IDE API's? > > > > A clarification please: Are you saying that if I have version 1.1.2 of > PolyGrid (as an example) installed and I have made a stack using 1 or > more Polygrids and I now download and install version 1.3.1 (or some > newer version) of PolyGrid, that when I open my stack the PolyGrids in > that stack do not update from 1.1.2 to 1.3.1? > > If so, this is a terrible disadvantage of any use of widgets. I feel I > must be misunderstanding why exporting properties to re-apply them is > needed for updates. > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sun Sep 25 14:28:37 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2022 14:28:37 -0400 Subject: Hacking LiveCode In-Reply-To: References: <9ec1d4e4-6704-7fa5-252f-6e6a65153a6d@researchware.com> Message-ID: and it is also 100% possible that there is something that can happen during the building/testing/installing process that would explain the behavior i have seen, but without knowing the expected behavior... On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 2:11 PM Mike Kerner wrote: > How's this: the expected behavior is not documented (as far as I can > find), so I don't know what the expected behavior is. I have tested > modifying a widget, rebuilding it, and re-adding it to LC. That does not > seem to cause existing widgets to update. Is that a bug in my code, and am > I doing something wrong that is leading me down this path? 100% absolutely, > positively, maybe, and then I'm just chasing a phantom...again... > I also don't think there is a documented way to see what version each > widget is in a particular...widget, but I think we might be able to. We can > certainly tell which version of a widget is installed in LC (bug report > 23952, whose code is going to go into the hack repo, soon). > > If I am write, and it is not a bug in my code, then it absolutely is a > disadvantage to using widgets...until this hack is complete. > > On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 12:59 PM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> On 9/25/2022 12:41 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: >> > chasing all the things that aren't documented, but you need to know >> about >> > LCB took me back into hacking liveCode. >> > it's just getting started. if you have tools or pointers, the >> > repo/wiki/issues/discussion are at https://github.com/macMikey/LC-HACK >> > Project 1: extracting all properties of a widget (because "export" does >> not >> > export the "base" LC object properties) and applying those properties >> to an >> > updated version of the widget (because LC is releasing updates to the >> > megabundle widgets almost weekly) >> > Project 2: documenting the LC IDE API's? >> > >> >> A clarification please: Are you saying that if I have version 1.1.2 of >> PolyGrid (as an example) installed and I have made a stack using 1 or >> more Polygrids and I now download and install version 1.3.1 (or some >> newer version) of PolyGrid, that when I open my stack the PolyGrids in >> that stack do not update from 1.1.2 to 1.3.1? >> >> If so, this is a terrible disadvantage of any use of widgets. I feel I >> must be misunderstanding why exporting properties to re-apply them is >> needed for updates. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sun Sep 25 15:07:26 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2022 15:07:26 -0400 Subject: Hacking LiveCode In-Reply-To: References: <9ec1d4e4-6704-7fa5-252f-6e6a65153a6d@researchware.com> Message-ID: i just re-tested this, and came up with the opposite result (modifying the widget and rebuilding it causes existing copies to behave the new way). So, it's time to come up with a recipe for one versus the other... welcome to the weeds... On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 2:28 PM Mike Kerner wrote: > and it is also 100% possible that there is something that can happen > during the building/testing/installing process that would explain the > behavior i have seen, but without knowing the expected behavior... > > On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 2:11 PM Mike Kerner > wrote: > >> How's this: the expected behavior is not documented (as far as I can >> find), so I don't know what the expected behavior is. I have tested >> modifying a widget, rebuilding it, and re-adding it to LC. That does not >> seem to cause existing widgets to update. Is that a bug in my code, and am >> I doing something wrong that is leading me down this path? 100% absolutely, >> positively, maybe, and then I'm just chasing a phantom...again... >> I also don't think there is a documented way to see what version each >> widget is in a particular...widget, but I think we might be able to. We can >> certainly tell which version of a widget is installed in LC (bug report >> 23952, whose code is going to go into the hack repo, soon). >> >> If I am write, and it is not a bug in my code, then it absolutely is a >> disadvantage to using widgets...until this hack is complete. >> >> On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 12:59 PM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>> On 9/25/2022 12:41 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: >>> > chasing all the things that aren't documented, but you need to know >>> about >>> > LCB took me back into hacking liveCode. >>> > it's just getting started. if you have tools or pointers, the >>> > repo/wiki/issues/discussion are at https://github.com/macMikey/LC-HACK >>> > Project 1: extracting all properties of a widget (because "export" >>> does not >>> > export the "base" LC object properties) and applying those properties >>> to an >>> > updated version of the widget (because LC is releasing updates to the >>> > megabundle widgets almost weekly) >>> > Project 2: documenting the LC IDE API's? >>> > >>> >>> A clarification please: Are you saying that if I have version 1.1.2 of >>> PolyGrid (as an example) installed and I have made a stack using 1 or >>> more Polygrids and I now download and install version 1.3.1 (or some >>> newer version) of PolyGrid, that when I open my stack the PolyGrids in >>> that stack do not update from 1.1.2 to 1.3.1? >>> >>> If so, this is a terrible disadvantage of any use of widgets. I feel I >>> must be misunderstanding why exporting properties to re-apply them is >>> needed for updates. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> >> -- >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >> On the second day, God created the oceans. >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> and did a little diving. >> And God said, "This is good." >> > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From brian at milby7.com Sun Sep 25 15:49:28 2022 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2022 15:49:28 -0400 Subject: Hacking LiveCode In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9D653FFE-B917-4E63-8241-F94EE3C9E877@milby7.com> The widgets are identified by the reverse dns name. As long as that name does not change, LC will use whichever version is currently installed in the IDE. The issue is that you can’t take the LC version of a widget and then build your own version with a new name and have the settings easily come over. I think this export issue should really be thought of as a bug. When a widget is exported it pulls the widget settings from the widget and ignores the standard ones. The engine has to serialize the data when it saves the stack so it should not be a huge issue to fix. Brian Milby brian at milby7.com > On Sep 25, 2022, at 3:09 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > i just re-tested this, and came up with the opposite result (modifying the > widget and rebuilding it causes existing copies to behave the new way). So, > it's time to come up with a recipe for one versus the other... > welcome to the weeds... > >> On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 2:28 PM Mike Kerner >> wrote: >> >> and it is also 100% possible that there is something that can happen >> during the building/testing/installing process that would explain the >> behavior i have seen, but without knowing the expected behavior... >> >> On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 2:11 PM Mike Kerner >> wrote: >> >>> How's this: the expected behavior is not documented (as far as I can >>> find), so I don't know what the expected behavior is. I have tested >>> modifying a widget, rebuilding it, and re-adding it to LC. That does not >>> seem to cause existing widgets to update. Is that a bug in my code, and am >>> I doing something wrong that is leading me down this path? 100% absolutely, >>> positively, maybe, and then I'm just chasing a phantom...again... >>> I also don't think there is a documented way to see what version each >>> widget is in a particular...widget, but I think we might be able to. We can >>> certainly tell which version of a widget is installed in LC (bug report >>> 23952, whose code is going to go into the hack repo, soon). >>> >>> If I am write, and it is not a bug in my code, then it absolutely is a >>> disadvantage to using widgets...until this hack is complete. >>> >>> On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 12:59 PM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>>> On 9/25/2022 12:41 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: >>>>> chasing all the things that aren't documented, but you need to know >>>> about >>>>> LCB took me back into hacking liveCode. >>>>> it's just getting started. if you have tools or pointers, the >>>>> repo/wiki/issues/discussion are at https://github.com/macMikey/LC-HACK >>>>> Project 1: extracting all properties of a widget (because "export" >>>> does not >>>>> export the "base" LC object properties) and applying those properties >>>> to an >>>>> updated version of the widget (because LC is releasing updates to the >>>>> megabundle widgets almost weekly) >>>>> Project 2: documenting the LC IDE API's? >>>>> >>>> >>>> A clarification please: Are you saying that if I have version 1.1.2 of >>>> PolyGrid (as an example) installed and I have made a stack using 1 or >>>> more Polygrids and I now download and install version 1.3.1 (or some >>>> newer version) of PolyGrid, that when I open my stack the PolyGrids in >>>> that stack do not update from 1.1.2 to 1.3.1? >>>> >>>> If so, this is a terrible disadvantage of any use of widgets. I feel I >>>> must be misunderstanding why exporting properties to re-apply them is >>>> needed for updates. >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >>> On the second day, God created the oceans. >>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >>> and did a little diving. >>> And God said, "This is good." >>> >> >> >> -- >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >> On the second day, God created the oceans. >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> and did a little diving. >> And God said, "This is good." >> > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sun Sep 25 16:51:42 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2022 16:51:42 -0400 Subject: Hacking LiveCode In-Reply-To: <9D653FFE-B917-4E63-8241-F94EE3C9E877@milby7.com> References: <9D653FFE-B917-4E63-8241-F94EE3C9E877@milby7.com> Message-ID: 1. is that documented, somewhere, because i cannot find it. 2. that isn't the problem i was having. the problem i was having was that if i took a widget (navRad, for instance), and added code to it, then installed the new version, preexisting copies of the widget would not execute the new code. new copies would. so, it's 100% possible that i discovered some other behavior, but after testing it a few times, instead of documenting the recipe, i accepted that this was the behavior, and went about addressing it. except, today, when i tested it, the behavior is the one that you would want (in unbuilt apps, behaviors in newer versions of the widget are reflected in existing copies of the widget). so i have to go replicate the behavior, again and develop a recipe, again. 3. fortunately or not, chasing this particular bear for days has resulted in a snippet in the hack repo which i hope extracts all properties for an object, standard or specific. On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 3:50 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > The widgets are identified by the reverse dns name. As long as that name > does not change, LC will use whichever version is currently installed in > the IDE. The issue is that you can’t take the LC version of a widget and > then build your own version with a new name and have the settings easily > come over. I think this export issue should really be thought of as a > bug. When a widget is exported it pulls the widget settings from the > widget and ignores the standard ones. The engine has to serialize the data > when it saves the stack so it should not be a huge issue to fix. > > Brian Milby > brian at milby7.com > > > On Sep 25, 2022, at 3:09 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > i just re-tested this, and came up with the opposite result (modifying > the > > widget and rebuilding it causes existing copies to behave the new way). > So, > > it's time to come up with a recipe for one versus the other... > > welcome to the weeds... > > > >> On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 2:28 PM Mike Kerner > >> wrote: > >> > >> and it is also 100% possible that there is something that can happen > >> during the building/testing/installing process that would explain the > >> behavior i have seen, but without knowing the expected behavior... > >> > >> On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 2:11 PM Mike Kerner > >> wrote: > >> > >>> How's this: the expected behavior is not documented (as far as I can > >>> find), so I don't know what the expected behavior is. I have tested > >>> modifying a widget, rebuilding it, and re-adding it to LC. That does > not > >>> seem to cause existing widgets to update. Is that a bug in my code, > and am > >>> I doing something wrong that is leading me down this path? 100% > absolutely, > >>> positively, maybe, and then I'm just chasing a phantom...again... > >>> I also don't think there is a documented way to see what version each > >>> widget is in a particular...widget, but I think we might be able to. > We can > >>> certainly tell which version of a widget is installed in LC (bug report > >>> 23952, whose code is going to go into the hack repo, soon). > >>> > >>> If I am write, and it is not a bug in my code, then it absolutely is a > >>> disadvantage to using widgets...until this hack is complete. > >>> > >>> On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 12:59 PM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >>> > >>>> On 9/25/2022 12:41 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > >>>>> chasing all the things that aren't documented, but you need to know > >>>> about > >>>>> LCB took me back into hacking liveCode. > >>>>> it's just getting started. if you have tools or pointers, the > >>>>> repo/wiki/issues/discussion are at > https://github.com/macMikey/LC-HACK > >>>>> Project 1: extracting all properties of a widget (because "export" > >>>> does not > >>>>> export the "base" LC object properties) and applying those properties > >>>> to an > >>>>> updated version of the widget (because LC is releasing updates to the > >>>>> megabundle widgets almost weekly) > >>>>> Project 2: documenting the LC IDE API's? > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> A clarification please: Are you saying that if I have version 1.1.2 of > >>>> PolyGrid (as an example) installed and I have made a stack using 1 or > >>>> more Polygrids and I now download and install version 1.3.1 (or some > >>>> newer version) of PolyGrid, that when I open my stack the PolyGrids in > >>>> that stack do not update from 1.1.2 to 1.3.1? > >>>> > >>>> If so, this is a terrible disadvantage of any use of widgets. I feel I > >>>> must be misunderstanding why exporting properties to re-apply them is > >>>> needed for updates. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> use-livecode mailing list > >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>>> subscription preferences: > >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > >>> On the second day, God created the oceans. > >>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > >>> and did a little diving. > >>> And God said, "This is good." > >>> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > >> On the second day, God created the oceans. > >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > >> and did a little diving. > >> And God said, "This is good." > >> > > > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From alex at tweedly.net Sun Sep 25 16:54:58 2022 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2022 21:54:58 +0100 Subject: Charts widget. Message-ID: <62253d2d-a416-a334-ccec-acd5fa3d9176@tweedly.net> Anyone using this widget ? Is there some documentation (other than the obvious dictionary entries) about how to do different kinds of chart ? In the last 4-6 months, I've done 3 or 4 little personal projects where I wanted to create a chart, but I've not been able to figure out how to use the charts widget to do time-based charts. What I mean is, e.g., create a chart for the following data .... 2022-02-01    100 2022-02-04    500 2022-02-05    525 2022-02-17    900 .... Obviously, the dates along the X-axis should be spaced properly according to their data value, not equally spaced and simply labelled. Looking at the charts.js documentation, it tells me (or rather, fails to tell me, since I can't understand it) that I need to define an 'adapter' and shows some sample javascript. I don't really understand how to do it simply in javascript - far less how I could use that in the widget. Can anyone give me a clue or a pointer ? Many thanks, Alex. P.S. currently I solved it using my own GraphMaker library (see LC conference from 2018) - but I'd really like to retire that library in favour of the new widget. From brian at milby7.com Sun Sep 25 17:07:36 2022 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2022 17:07:36 -0400 Subject: Hacking LiveCode In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Did you restart LiveCode after installing the updated widget? Brian Milby brian at milby7.com > On Sep 25, 2022, at 4:53 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > 1. is that documented, somewhere, because i cannot find it. > 2. that isn't the problem i was having. the problem i was having was that > if i took a widget (navRad, for instance), and added code to it, then > installed the new version, preexisting copies of the widget would not > execute the new code. new copies would. > so, it's 100% possible that i discovered some other behavior, but after > testing it a few times, instead of documenting the recipe, i accepted that > this was the behavior, and went about addressing it. except, today, when i > tested it, the behavior is the one that you would want (in unbuilt apps, > behaviors in newer versions of the widget are reflected in existing copies > of the widget). so i have to go replicate the behavior, again and develop a > recipe, again. > 3. fortunately or not, chasing this particular bear for days has resulted > in a snippet in the hack repo which i hope extracts all properties for an > object, standard or specific. From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sun Sep 25 17:57:33 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2022 17:57:33 -0400 Subject: Hacking LiveCode In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: that's one of the things i'm wondering about, like "did you uninstall it, or just unload it, or did you uninstall it but not unload it? did you build a new version in the test environment and test that against an existing install?" it's been days since i ran into this, and the only notes that i have on it are that i ran into it. i didn't keep track of the recipe. On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 5:08 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Did you restart LiveCode after installing the updated widget? > > Brian Milby > brian at milby7.com > > > On Sep 25, 2022, at 4:53 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > 1. is that documented, somewhere, because i cannot find it. > > 2. that isn't the problem i was having. the problem i was having was that > > if i took a widget (navRad, for instance), and added code to it, then > > installed the new version, preexisting copies of the widget would not > > execute the new code. new copies would. > > so, it's 100% possible that i discovered some other behavior, but after > > testing it a few times, instead of documenting the recipe, i accepted > that > > this was the behavior, and went about addressing it. except, today, when > i > > tested it, the behavior is the one that you would want (in unbuilt apps, > > behaviors in newer versions of the widget are reflected in existing > copies > > of the widget). so i have to go replicate the behavior, again and > develop a > > recipe, again. > > 3. fortunately or not, chasing this particular bear for days has resulted > > in a snippet in the hack repo which i hope extracts all properties for an > > object, standard or specific. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sun Sep 25 18:21:54 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2022 18:21:54 -0400 Subject: Charts widget. In-Reply-To: <62253d2d-a416-a334-ccec-acd5fa3d9176@tweedly.net> References: <62253d2d-a416-a334-ccec-acd5fa3d9176@tweedly.net> Message-ID: do you mean the graph widget? if that's what you mean, then... sorry this isn't more helpful, but to get you started, the graph.lcb file is in Tools/Extensions/com.livecode.widget.linegraph, if you want to try reading through it. it's only 1300 lines, total, including the docs. there is not that much going on. there are no private properties that i can see. On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 4:55 PM Alex Tweedly via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Anyone using this widget ? > > Is there some documentation (other than the obvious dictionary entries) > about how to do different kinds of chart ? > > In the last 4-6 months, I've done 3 or 4 little personal projects where > I wanted to create a chart, but I've not been able to figure out how to > use the charts widget to do time-based charts. > > What I mean is, e.g., create a chart for the following data .... > > 2022-02-01 100 > 2022-02-04 500 > 2022-02-05 525 > 2022-02-17 900 > .... > > Obviously, the dates along the X-axis should be spaced properly > according to their data value, not equally spaced and simply labelled. > > Looking at the charts.js documentation, it tells me (or rather, fails to > tell me, since I can't understand it) that I need to define an 'adapter' > and shows some sample javascript. I don't really understand how to do it > simply in javascript - far less how I could use that in the widget. > > Can anyone give me a clue or a pointer ? > > Many thanks, > > Alex. > > P.S. currently I solved it using my own GraphMaker library (see LC > conference from 2018) - but I'd really like to retire that library in > favour of the new widget. > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From stephen at barncard.com Sun Sep 25 18:45:57 2022 From: stephen at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2022 15:45:57 -0700 Subject: disk mounted (appleevent?) Message-ID: Hello everyone.... Yes, I'm still here! Is there a way to capture the mounting of a CD or DVD? Other than the cheesy "polling" for a disk to appear? I can't find this in the docs. Maybe not possible. Thanks in advance, sqb -- Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA - mixstream.org From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sun Sep 25 19:58:16 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2022 19:58:16 -0400 Subject: disk mounted (appleevent?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: or maybe there's an event that the os throws that can be captured... On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 6:47 PM Stephen Barncard via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hello everyone.... > > Yes, I'm still here! > > Is there a way to capture the mounting of a CD or DVD? > Other than the cheesy "polling" for a disk to appear? > I can't find this in the docs. Maybe not possible. > > Thanks in advance, sqb > -- > Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA - > mixstream.org > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Mon Sep 26 15:46:08 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 15:46:08 -0400 Subject: one field to rule them all Message-ID: does anyone know why we don't have a single field widget? i am just dipping a toe in the android waters, so do the mobilecontrol commands not work in android? the dictionary seems to say that they do. -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Sep 26 16:21:51 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 15:21:51 -0500 Subject: one field to rule them all In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1837b768f18.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> There's a native Android field, and the mobile commands also work. I usually use the commands because they offer a bit more control than the widget. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On September 26, 2022 2:48:59 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > does anyone know why we don't have a single field widget? > i am just dipping a toe in the android waters, so do the mobilecontrol > commands not work in android? the dictionary seems to say that they do. > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Mon Sep 26 16:35:14 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 16:35:14 -0400 Subject: one field to rule them all In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Is there any advantage to using the android widget vs. creating them with the commands? I'd like to make the ios and android versions of this app as close as possible, since there's already going to be a tablet and a phone version. I just wonder why all the field widgets weren't all combined into a single widget. You've got the commands to build something by hand, the android widget, the mac widget, and several field objects. I can understand having various objects if you have a situation like you do with the field objects, where the settings are different because the use-cases are different. On Mon, Sep 26, 2022 at 3:46 PM Mike Kerner wrote: > does anyone know why we don't have a single field widget? > i am just dipping a toe in the android waters, so do the mobilecontrol > commands not work in android? the dictionary seems to say that they do. > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From alex at tweedly.net Mon Sep 26 16:54:18 2022 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 21:54:18 +0100 Subject: Charts widget. In-Reply-To: References: <62253d2d-a416-a334-ccec-acd5fa3d9176@tweedly.net> Message-ID: No, I mean the chart widget (chart - not charts, my mistake). The graph (or linegraph) widget - com.livecode.widget.linegraph - does simple line graphs only. The chart widget - com.livecode.widget.chart - can do everything you ever imagined a chart could do, and more. (*) > The Chart widget is a wrapper forChart.js v3.7.0 > in LiveCode. It allows you to create > beautiful and highly customizable charts, in a simple way. Data can be > displayed as a line graph, bar chart, radar chart, donut/pie chart, > polar chart, bubble chart or scatter plot. It really is wonderful - all kinds of charts, very fast, animations, etc. The only drawback I've found so far is that doing time sequence or date sequence charts needs some extra magic, and I don't know how to find that magic. Thanks for the suggestion of reading the .lcb; I probably couldn't have made sense of it anyway - but there is no .lcb file for the chart widget. It's just my bad luck that all the charts I want to do are the kind that is beyond me :-) Alex. (*) not quite true, I don't think it can do the complex time + bubble animations that Hans Rosling uses to such amazing effect - https://singularityhub.com/2010/12/09/hans-rosling-shows-you-200-years-of-global-growth-in-4-minutes-video/ On 25/09/2022 23:21, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > do you mean the graph widget? > if that's what you mean, then... > sorry this isn't more helpful, but to get you started, the graph.lcb file > is in Tools/Extensions/com.livecode.widget.linegraph, if you want to try > reading through it. > it's only 1300 lines, total, including the docs. there is not that much > going on. > there are no private properties that i can see. > > On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 4:55 PM Alex Tweedly via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Anyone using this widget ? >> >> Is there some documentation (other than the obvious dictionary entries) >> about how to do different kinds of chart ? >> >> In the last 4-6 months, I've done 3 or 4 little personal projects where >> I wanted to create a chart, but I've not been able to figure out how to >> use the charts widget to do time-based charts. >> >> What I mean is, e.g., create a chart for the following data .... >> >> 2022-02-01 100 >> 2022-02-04 500 >> 2022-02-05 525 >> 2022-02-17 900 >> .... >> >> Obviously, the dates along the X-axis should be spaced properly >> according to their data value, not equally spaced and simply labelled. >> >> Looking at the charts.js documentation, it tells me (or rather, fails to >> tell me, since I can't understand it) that I need to define an 'adapter' >> and shows some sample javascript. I don't really understand how to do it >> simply in javascript - far less how I could use that in the widget. >> >> Can anyone give me a clue or a pointer ? >> >> Many thanks, >> >> Alex. >> >> P.S. currently I solved it using my own GraphMaker library (see LC >> conference from 2018) - but I'd really like to retire that library in >> favour of the new widget. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > From paul at researchware.com Mon Sep 26 17:08:20 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 17:08:20 -0400 Subject: Charts widget. In-Reply-To: References: <62253d2d-a416-a334-ccec-acd5fa3d9176@tweedly.net> Message-ID: Where the heck is the chart widget (com.livecode.widget.chart)? It is not among the widgets in LC 9.6.8 or added by the Summer Bundle? Is it from LC or a 3rd party? If so from where? From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Mon Sep 26 17:11:28 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 17:11:28 -0400 Subject: Charts widget. In-Reply-To: References: <62253d2d-a416-a334-ccec-acd5fa3d9176@tweedly.net> Message-ID: well, i learned something new. i don't even see that widget in 9, but i do in 10. On Mon, Sep 26, 2022 at 4:54 PM Alex Tweedly via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > No, I mean the chart widget (chart - not charts, my mistake). > > The graph (or linegraph) widget - com.livecode.widget.linegraph - does > simple line graphs only. > > The chart widget - com.livecode.widget.chart - can do everything you > ever imagined a chart could do, and more. (*) > > > The Chart widget is a wrapper forChart.js v3.7.0 > > in LiveCode. It allows you to create > > beautiful and highly customizable charts, in a simple way. Data can be > > displayed as a line graph, bar chart, radar chart, donut/pie chart, > > polar chart, bubble chart or scatter plot. > It really is wonderful - all kinds of charts, very fast, animations, > etc. The only drawback I've found so far is that doing time sequence or > date sequence charts needs some extra magic, and I don't know how to > find that magic. > > Thanks for the suggestion of reading the .lcb; I probably couldn't have > made sense of it anyway - but there is no .lcb file for the chart widget. > > It's just my bad luck that all the charts I want to do are the kind that > is beyond me :-) > > Alex. > > (*) not quite true, I don't think it can do the complex time + bubble > animations that Hans Rosling uses to such amazing effect - > > https://singularityhub.com/2010/12/09/hans-rosling-shows-you-200-years-of-global-growth-in-4-minutes-video/ > > On 25/09/2022 23:21, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > do you mean the graph widget? > > if that's what you mean, then... > > sorry this isn't more helpful, but to get you started, the graph.lcb file > > is in Tools/Extensions/com.livecode.widget.linegraph, if you want to try > > reading through it. > > it's only 1300 lines, total, including the docs. there is not that much > > going on. > > there are no private properties that i can see. > > > > On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 4:55 PM Alex Tweedly via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > >> Anyone using this widget ? > >> > >> Is there some documentation (other than the obvious dictionary entries) > >> about how to do different kinds of chart ? > >> > >> In the last 4-6 months, I've done 3 or 4 little personal projects where > >> I wanted to create a chart, but I've not been able to figure out how to > >> use the charts widget to do time-based charts. > >> > >> What I mean is, e.g., create a chart for the following data .... > >> > >> 2022-02-01 100 > >> 2022-02-04 500 > >> 2022-02-05 525 > >> 2022-02-17 900 > >> .... > >> > >> Obviously, the dates along the X-axis should be spaced properly > >> according to their data value, not equally spaced and simply labelled. > >> > >> Looking at the charts.js documentation, it tells me (or rather, fails to > >> tell me, since I can't understand it) that I need to define an 'adapter' > >> and shows some sample javascript. I don't really understand how to do it > >> simply in javascript - far less how I could use that in the widget. > >> > >> Can anyone give me a clue or a pointer ? > >> > >> Many thanks, > >> > >> Alex. > >> > >> P.S. currently I solved it using my own GraphMaker library (see LC > >> conference from 2018) - but I'd really like to retire that library in > >> favour of the new widget. > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From paul at researchware.com Mon Sep 26 17:26:05 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 17:26:05 -0400 Subject: Charts widget. In-Reply-To: References: <62253d2d-a416-a334-ccec-acd5fa3d9176@tweedly.net> Message-ID: Yes, I see it in LC10.0.0dp4. It must be a new widget for LC10, possibly only working in LC10 and not earlier versions? Thank you for directing me to 10. On 9/26/2022 5:11 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > well, i learned something new. > i don't even see that widget in 9, but i do in 10. > > On Mon, Sep 26, 2022 at 4:54 PM Alex Tweedly via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> No, I mean the chart widget (chart - not charts, my mistake). >> >> The graph (or linegraph) widget - com.livecode.widget.linegraph - does >> simple line graphs only. >> >> The chart widget - com.livecode.widget.chart - can do everything you >> ever imagined a chart could do, and more. (*) >> >>> The Chart widget is a wrapper forChart.js v3.7.0 >>> in LiveCode. It allows you to create >>> beautiful and highly customizable charts, in a simple way. Data can be >>> displayed as a line graph, bar chart, radar chart, donut/pie chart, >>> polar chart, bubble chart or scatter plot. >> It really is wonderful - all kinds of charts, very fast, animations, >> etc. The only drawback I've found so far is that doing time sequence or >> date sequence charts needs some extra magic, and I don't know how to >> find that magic. >> >> Thanks for the suggestion of reading the .lcb; I probably couldn't have >> made sense of it anyway - but there is no .lcb file for the chart widget. >> >> It's just my bad luck that all the charts I want to do are the kind that >> is beyond me :-) >> >> Alex. >> >> (*) not quite true, I don't think it can do the complex time + bubble >> animations that Hans Rosling uses to such amazing effect - >> >> https://singularityhub.com/2010/12/09/hans-rosling-shows-you-200-years-of-global-growth-in-4-minutes-video/ >> >> On 25/09/2022 23:21, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: >>> do you mean the graph widget? >>> if that's what you mean, then... >>> sorry this isn't more helpful, but to get you started, the graph.lcb file >>> is in Tools/Extensions/com.livecode.widget.linegraph, if you want to try >>> reading through it. >>> it's only 1300 lines, total, including the docs. there is not that much >>> going on. >>> there are no private properties that i can see. >>> >>> On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 4:55 PM Alex Tweedly via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Anyone using this widget ? >>>> >>>> Is there some documentation (other than the obvious dictionary entries) >>>> about how to do different kinds of chart ? >>>> >>>> In the last 4-6 months, I've done 3 or 4 little personal projects where >>>> I wanted to create a chart, but I've not been able to figure out how to >>>> use the charts widget to do time-based charts. >>>> >>>> What I mean is, e.g., create a chart for the following data .... >>>> >>>> 2022-02-01 100 >>>> 2022-02-04 500 >>>> 2022-02-05 525 >>>> 2022-02-17 900 >>>> .... >>>> >>>> Obviously, the dates along the X-axis should be spaced properly >>>> according to their data value, not equally spaced and simply labelled. >>>> >>>> Looking at the charts.js documentation, it tells me (or rather, fails to >>>> tell me, since I can't understand it) that I need to define an 'adapter' >>>> and shows some sample javascript. I don't really understand how to do it >>>> simply in javascript - far less how I could use that in the widget. >>>> >>>> Can anyone give me a clue or a pointer ? >>>> >>>> Many thanks, >>>> >>>> Alex. >>>> >>>> P.S. currently I solved it using my own GraphMaker library (see LC >>>> conference from 2018) - but I'd really like to retire that library in >>>> favour of the new widget. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > From alex at tweedly.net Mon Sep 26 19:09:29 2022 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2022 00:09:29 +0100 Subject: Charts widget. In-Reply-To: References: <62253d2d-a416-a334-ccec-acd5fa3d9176@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <6693b5fb-6e6f-1d34-1dda-3c7ff6b7d57c@tweedly.net> Yes, first appeared in 10..0DP2 https://livecode.com/livecode-10-dp-2-charts-guidelines-web-browser-widget-and-more/ Alex. On 26/09/2022 22:26, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > Yes, I see it in LC10.0.0dp4. It must be a new widget for LC10, > possibly only working in LC10 and not earlier versions? > > Thank you for directing me to 10. > > > On 9/26/2022 5:11 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: >> well, i learned something new. >> i don't even see that widget in 9, but i do in 10. >> >> On Mon, Sep 26, 2022 at 4:54 PM Alex Tweedly via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>> No, I mean the chart widget (chart - not charts, my mistake). >>> >>> The graph (or linegraph) widget - com.livecode.widget.linegraph - does >>> simple line graphs only. >>> >>> The chart widget - com.livecode.widget.chart - can do everything you >>> ever imagined a chart could do, and more. (*) >>> >>>> The Chart widget is a wrapper forChart.js v3.7.0 >>>> in LiveCode. It allows you to create >>>> beautiful and highly customizable charts, in a simple way. Data can be >>>> displayed as a line graph, bar chart, radar chart, donut/pie chart, >>>> polar chart, bubble chart or scatter plot. >>> It really is wonderful - all kinds of charts, very fast, animations, >>> etc. The only drawback I've found so far is that doing time sequence or >>> date sequence charts needs some extra magic, and I don't know how to >>> find that magic. >>> >>> Thanks for the suggestion of reading the .lcb; I probably couldn't have >>> made sense of it anyway - but there is no .lcb file for the chart >>> widget. >>> >>> It's just my bad luck that all the charts I want to do are the kind >>> that >>> is beyond me :-) >>> >>> Alex. >>> >>> (*) not quite true, I don't think it can do the complex time + bubble >>> animations that Hans Rosling uses to such amazing effect - >>> >>> https://singularityhub.com/2010/12/09/hans-rosling-shows-you-200-years-of-global-growth-in-4-minutes-video/ >>> >>> >>> On 25/09/2022 23:21, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: >>>> do you mean the graph widget? >>>> if that's what you mean, then... >>>> sorry this isn't more helpful, but to get you started, the >>>> graph.lcb file >>>> is in Tools/Extensions/com.livecode.widget.linegraph, if you want >>>> to try >>>> reading through it. >>>> it's only 1300 lines, total, including the docs. there is not that >>>> much >>>> going on. >>>> there are no private properties that i can see. >>>> >>>> On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 4:55 PM Alex Tweedly via use-livecode < >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Anyone using this widget ? >>>>> >>>>> Is there some documentation (other than the obvious dictionary >>>>> entries) >>>>> about how to do different kinds of chart ? >>>>> >>>>> In the last 4-6 months, I've done 3 or 4 little personal projects >>>>> where >>>>> I wanted to create a chart, but I've not been able to figure out >>>>> how to >>>>> use the charts widget to do time-based charts. >>>>> >>>>> What I mean is, e.g., create a chart for the following data .... >>>>> >>>>> 2022-02-01    100 >>>>> 2022-02-04    500 >>>>> 2022-02-05    525 >>>>> 2022-02-17    900 >>>>> .... >>>>> >>>>> Obviously, the dates along the X-axis should be spaced properly >>>>> according to their data value, not equally spaced and simply >>>>> labelled. >>>>> >>>>> Looking at the charts.js documentation, it tells me (or rather, >>>>> fails to >>>>> tell me, since I can't understand it) that I need to define an >>>>> 'adapter' >>>>> and shows some sample javascript. I don't really understand how to >>>>> do it >>>>> simply in javascript - far less how I could use that in the widget. >>>>> >>>>> Can anyone give me a clue or a pointer ? >>>>> >>>>> Many thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Alex. >>>>> >>>>> P.S. currently I solved it using my own GraphMaker library (see LC >>>>> conference from 2018) - but I'd really like to retire that library in >>>>> favour of the new widget. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dan at clearvisiontech.com Mon Sep 26 20:48:51 2022 From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2022 00:48:51 +0000 Subject: Images in Push Messages Message-ID: We're trying to add images to push messages. Can't seem to get it to work (starting with Android first). Anyone have any knowledge on this? I wouldn't think so, but Is there something I have to set in the LC app? Any guidance anyone might have would be appreciated! -Dan From benr_mc at cogapp.com Tue Sep 27 06:22:23 2022 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2022 11:22:23 +0100 Subject: Ignoring accented characters In-Reply-To: <438ffe4e04dfebdc0411bdfede465504@souslelogo.com> References: <438ffe4e04dfebdc0411bdfede465504@souslelogo.com> Message-ID: <0d81046e-7e99-3f58-7bdc-be9beceabfd8@cogapp.com> Hi jbv, This one of a number of gaps that exist in the jungle of character processing in LiveCode. I don't think there is a 'diacriticSensitive' property. Some part of LiveCode are clever about accents, see e.g. https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15312 https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15443 As you note, it would be useful if there was a built-in function to strip diacritics, which has been requested (for 14 years now): https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=6450 One trick that can be used in some contexts is to put the text into a field, retrieve the htmlText of the fields - which encodes many accented characters as entity names - and reduce these entity names back to the unaccented character. There's also an enhancement request (pending for over 18 years) to expose this functionality without the need to use a field - useful for many purposes, not just for stripping accents: https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1372 This especially ought to be a cheap enhancement, since LC evidently incorporates the necessary tables already. Putting text through html entities is not a perfect solution to implementing a "stripDiacritics" function, because e.g. you might render "—" as "m"; but as far as I know, currently it's either that or encode your own tables. Ben On 16/09/2022 15:10, jbv via use-livecode wrote: > Hi list, > > Is there a way to ignore accented characters in LC, like in mySQL > for instance ? > Here's an example : I need these 2 array items below to be considered > as 1 single entity : >   add 1 to myArray["interprtation"] >   add 1 to myArray["interpretation"] > > Of course, I can write a function that removes accents, but I was > wondering if there was a built-in function in LC to do that, in a > similar logic as "set the casesentive to false" for instance. > > Thanks you in advance. > jbv > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From merakosp at gmail.com Tue Sep 27 07:44:35 2022 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis m) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2022 14:44:35 +0300 Subject: Images in Push Messages In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Dan, Have you provided a "Status Bar Icon" in the Android standalone settings? If yes, what icons have you tried? I think colored icons are no longer allowed, in recent Android versions. The icons have to be png images, and they need to be white on black or transparent only, otherwise they display as a gray square area. You can check some samples on the web, e.g. here: https://romannurik.github.io/AndroidAssetStudio/icons-notification.html#source.type=clipart&source.clipart=place&source.space.trim=1&source.space.pad=0&name=ic_stat_place Hope this helps. Please let us know if this works for you. Kind regards, Panos On Tue, 27 Sept 2022 at 03:50, Dan Friedman via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > We're trying to add images to push messages. Can't seem to get it to work > (starting with Android first). Anyone have any knowledge on this? I > wouldn't think so, but Is there something I have to set in the LC app? > Any guidance anyone might have would be appreciated! > > -Dan > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From jbv at souslelogo.com Tue Sep 27 11:00:55 2022 From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2022 11:00:55 -0400 Subject: Ignoring accented characters In-Reply-To: <0d81046e-7e99-3f58-7bdc-be9beceabfd8@cogapp.com> References: <438ffe4e04dfebdc0411bdfede465504@souslelogo.com> <0d81046e-7e99-3f58-7bdc-be9beceabfd8@cogapp.com> Message-ID: Hello Ben, Thank you for your detailed answer. So far, I only have to deal with french text so I only need a list of diacritic vowels and a list of the chars used as replacement : aaaeeeeiioouuuy With a simple loop it is feasible and it doesn't slow down my scripts significantly. But indeed, a 'diacriticSensitive' property would be really helpful. jbv Le 2022-09-27 06:22, Ben Rubinstein a crit : > Hi jbv, > > This one of a number of gaps that exist in the jungle of character > processing in LiveCode. > > I don't think there is a 'diacriticSensitive' property. Some part of > LiveCode are clever about accents, see e.g. > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15312 > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15443 > > As you note, it would be useful if there was a built-in function to > strip diacritics, which has been requested (for 14 years now): > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=6450 > > One trick that can be used in some contexts is to put the text into a > field, retrieve the htmlText of the fields - which encodes many > accented characters as entity names - and reduce these entity names > back to the unaccented character. > > There's also an enhancement request (pending for over 18 years) to > expose this functionality without the need to use a field - useful for > many purposes, not just for stripping accents: > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1372 > > This especially ought to be a cheap enhancement, since LC evidently > incorporates the necessary tables already. > > Putting text through html entities is not a perfect solution to > implementing a "stripDiacritics" function, because e.g. you might > render "—" as "m"; but as far as I know, currently it's either > that or encode your own tables. > > Ben > > > On 16/09/2022 15:10, jbv via use-livecode wrote: >> Hi list, >> >> Is there a way to ignore accented characters in LC, like in mySQL >> for instance ? >> Here's an example : I need these 2 array items below to be considered >> as 1 single entity : >>   add 1 to myArray["interprtation"] >>   add 1 to myArray["interpretation"] >> >> Of course, I can write a function that removes accents, but I was >> wondering if there was a built-in function in LC to do that, in a >> similar logic as "set the casesentive to false" for instance. >> >> Thanks you in advance. >> jbv >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dan at clearvisiontech.com Tue Sep 27 11:02:17 2022 From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2022 15:02:17 +0000 Subject: Images in Push Messages In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Panos, Yes, I have the icon in place and its showing just fine. It's not the icon I'm working on... it's an actual image within the message (Like this: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/pluralsight/guides/master/images/df051757-9a09-417b-a77a-8192c984b9a4.png). In some more research, I ran into this: https://developer.android.com/develop/ui/views/notifications/build-notification Does LC use the " NotificationCompat" when building packages? Thank you! Dan Friedman CEO, ClearVision Technologies, LLC Voice: 909/484-2052 http://www.clearvisiontech.com On 9/27/22, 4:46 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of panagiotis m via use-livecode" wrote: Hello Dan, Have you provided a "Status Bar Icon" in the Android standalone settings? If yes, what icons have you tried? I think colored icons are no longer allowed, in recent Android versions. The icons have to be png images, and they need to be white on black or transparent only, otherwise they display as a gray square area. You can check some samples on the web, e.g. here: https://romannurik.github.io/AndroidAssetStudio/icons-notification.html#source.type=clipart&source.clipart=place&source.space.trim=1&source.space.pad=0&name=ic_stat_place Hope this helps. Please let us know if this works for you. Kind regards, Panos On Tue, 27 Sept 2022 at 03:50, Dan Friedman via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > We're trying to add images to push messages. Can't seem to get it to work > (starting with Android first). Anyone have any knowledge on this? I > wouldn't think so, but Is there something I have to set in the LC app? > Any guidance anyone might have would be appreciated! > > -Dan > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From merakosp at gmail.com Tue Sep 27 11:29:09 2022 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis m) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2022 18:29:09 +0300 Subject: Images in Push Messages In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Dan, Ah I see. Hmm. Nope, we do not use "NotificationCompat". How are you sending the notifications? Are you using the Firebase Console? if yes, I am wondering if you could just provide an image in the "Notification Image (optional)" field here: https://console.firebase.google.com/u/0/project/pushnotificationtestlc965/notification/compose Kind regards, Panos -- On Tue, 27 Sept 2022 at 18:02, Dan Friedman wrote: > Panos, > > Yes, I have the icon in place and its showing just fine. It's not the > icon I'm working on... it's an actual image within the message (Like this: > https://raw.githubusercontent.com/pluralsight/guides/master/images/df051757-9a09-417b-a77a-8192c984b9a4.png). > In some more research, I ran into this: > > > https://developer.android.com/develop/ui/views/notifications/build-notification > > Does LC use the " NotificationCompat" when building packages? > > > Thank you! > > Dan Friedman > CEO, ClearVision Technologies, LLC > Voice: 909/484-2052 > http://www.clearvisiontech.com > > > On 9/27/22, 4:46 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of panagiotis m via > use-livecode" use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > Hello Dan, > > Have you provided a "Status Bar Icon" in the Android standalone > settings? > If yes, what icons have you tried? I think colored icons are no longer > allowed, in recent Android versions. > > The icons have to be png images, and they need to be white on black or > transparent only, otherwise they display as a gray square area. > > You can check some samples on the web, e.g. here: > > > https://romannurik.github.io/AndroidAssetStudio/icons-notification.html#source.type=clipart&source.clipart=place&source.space.trim=1&source.space.pad=0&name=ic_stat_place > > Hope this helps. > > Please let us know if this works for you. > > Kind regards, > Panos > > On Tue, 27 Sept 2022 at 03:50, Dan Friedman via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > We're trying to add images to push messages. Can't seem to get it > to work > > (starting with Android first). Anyone have any knowledge on this? > I > > wouldn't think so, but Is there something I have to set in the LC > app? > > Any guidance anyone might have would be appreciated! > > > > -Dan > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > From tom at makeshyft.com Fri Sep 30 11:05:13 2022 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2022 11:05:13 -0400 Subject: one field to rule them all In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mike, if you have the bundle and the appstarterstack, you can view the examples there. On Mon, Sep 26, 2022 at 4:36 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Is there any advantage to using the android widget vs. creating them > with the commands? I'd like to make the ios and android versions of this > app as close as possible, since there's already going to be a tablet and > a phone version. > I just wonder why all the field widgets weren't all combined into a single > widget. You've got the commands to build something by hand, the android > widget, the mac widget, and several field objects. I can understand having > various objects if you have a situation like you do with the field objects, > where the settings are different because the use-cases are different. > > On Mon, Sep 26, 2022 at 3:46 PM Mike Kerner > wrote: > > > does anyone know why we don't have a single field widget? > > i am just dipping a toe in the android waters, so do the mobilecontrol > > commands not work in android? the dictionary seems to say that they do. > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 30 13:12:29 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2022 17:12:29 +0000 Subject: RegEx to convert standard date to sql date Message-ID: <3AD0C9C1-5AA3-465B-A371-833CD66F8AB3@iotecdigital.com> I'm trying to convert a date format like mm/dd/yyyy to an sql date format yyyymmdd. Any ideas? Nothing I found on the interwebs seems to work. Bob S From jacques.clavel at gmail.com Fri Sep 30 13:38:16 2022 From: jacques.clavel at gmail.com (Jacques Clavel) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2022 19:38:16 +0200 Subject: RegEx to convert standard date to sql date In-Reply-To: <3AD0C9C1-5AA3-465B-A371-833CD66F8AB3@iotecdigital.com> References: <3AD0C9C1-5AA3-465B-A371-833CD66F8AB3@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Why not : set itemdel to "/" get tDate put item 3 of it & item 1 of it & item 2 of it into tSql JC Le ven. 30 sept. 2022 à 19:13, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> a écrit : > I'm trying to convert a date format like mm/dd/yyyy to an sql date format > yyyymmdd. Any ideas? Nothing I found on the interwebs seems to work. > > Bob S > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Jacques Clavel From keith.clarke at me.com Fri Sep 30 13:41:05 2022 From: keith.clarke at me.com (Keith Clarke) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2022 18:41:05 +0100 Subject: RegEx to convert standard date to sql date In-Reply-To: <3AD0C9C1-5AA3-465B-A371-833CD66F8AB3@iotecdigital.com> References: <3AD0C9C1-5AA3-465B-A371-833CD66F8AB3@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <0CC9B6CB-FF26-47BD-9D84-844B040AF21B@me.com> If it's always this standard string 'tDate' why not avoid Regex and just set the delimiters of tDate to "/" and then put item 3 of tDate & item 2 of tDate and put item 1 of tDate? Best, Keith > On 30 Sep 2022, at 18:13, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > I'm trying to convert a date format like mm/dd/yyyy to an sql date format yyyymmdd. Any ideas? Nothing I found on the interwebs seems to work. > > Bob S > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From tom at makeshyft.com Fri Sep 30 13:49:52 2022 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2022 13:49:52 -0400 Subject: RegEx to convert standard date to sql date In-Reply-To: <0CC9B6CB-FF26-47BD-9D84-844B040AF21B@me.com> References: <3AD0C9C1-5AA3-465B-A371-833CD66F8AB3@iotecdigital.com> <0CC9B6CB-FF26-47BD-9D84-844B040AF21B@me.com> Message-ID: Regex is overkill for this ..... i would handcode the translation like Keith mentioned. On Fri, Sep 30, 2022 at 1:42 PM Keith Clarke via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > If it's always this standard string 'tDate' why not avoid Regex and just > set the delimiters of tDate to "/" and then put item 3 of tDate & item 2 of > tDate and put item 1 of tDate? > Best, > Keith > > > On 30 Sep 2022, at 18:13, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > I'm trying to convert a date format like mm/dd/yyyy to an sql date > format yyyymmdd. Any ideas? Nothing I found on the interwebs seems to work. > > > > Bob S > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From gcanyon at gmail.com Fri Sep 30 15:12:46 2022 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2022 12:12:46 -0700 Subject: Quick and simple web demos? Message-ID: Back in the day, I would create quick and simple demos of something I was building as a concept, create standalones, and send them to the people I wanted to demonstrate to. As an example of an example, suppose I wanted to build a simple Eliza-like chatbot. I could throw a field on a card, put a "start chat" button on it, and build logic in the field or the card to get the job done. A few message handlers for EnterInField and ReturnInField would get the job done. These days there are at least two flaws with that approach: 1. Often the people I want to demo to are using work computers that are locked down from random app installs. 2. Sometimes I want to build a demo the world at large can see, and clearly installing an app from some random person is not the way to do that anymore. SO: is it accurate to say: 1. The above is possible 2. I'd need a web-accessible place to store the files -- would google drive be sufficient? 3. I'd need to add an HTML5 license to my account Any best references for steps to follow? Thanks, Geoff From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 30 18:44:47 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2022 22:44:47 +0000 Subject: RegEx to convert standard date to sql date In-Reply-To: References: <3AD0C9C1-5AA3-465B-A371-833CD66F8AB3@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <78BFC9D5-B6C4-45B3-BCEB-C9D00B494984@iotecdigital.com> Well it's like this. I am working in a document management system, and when I capture a date, I want to convert it to an sql date. I am not working in Livecode for this. Bob S > On Sep 30, 2022, at 10:38 , Jacques Clavel via use-livecode wrote: > > Why not : > set itemdel to "/" > get tDate > put item 3 of it & item 1 of it & item 2 of it into tSql > > JC > > Le ven. 30 sept. 2022 à 19:13, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> a écrit : > >> I'm trying to convert a date format like mm/dd/yyyy to an sql date format >> yyyymmdd. Any ideas? Nothing I found on the interwebs seems to work. >> >> Bob S >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > -- > Jacques Clavel > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From alex at tweedly.net Fri Sep 30 20:11:40 2022 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2022 01:11:40 +0100 Subject: Quick and simple web demos? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4f9d310e-ac2f-9898-add9-39c1f6818e31@tweedly.net> Short answers: 1. Yes 2. Yes, but probably not. 3. Yes. Long answers. 1. Yes, absolutely, it's ideal for quick, easy-to-distribute apps or demo samples. 2. Yes, you'll need somewhere to store/give access to the files. But it probably won't be Google Drive - you want the files of the app to each be accessible via https: (and there are assumptions about their relative position in the default build version - may be possible to over-ride them and use Google Drive, but I suspect lots more work. Easiest is to just have a web server and put the bundle created by  build-for-web up there. 3. Yes. 4. There are a few samples, etc. https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1496056-how-do-i-put-my-first-app-on-the-web-lc-10-and-later Note this uses the default-built HTML file, which is pretty unappealing. The discussion on the comments says something about replacing it, or there have been other examples on the uselist and (more) on the forums about this. In one of the LC Global conferences fairly recently, Steve Crighton and Michael Macreary did a web app, with custom html/LCS to interact to handle resizing etc. Sorry - don't know which one it was, and the poor indexing/naming makes it tedious to try to find. It's all a bit complex and barely documented for now, but will improve before actual release. Alex. On 30/09/2022 20:12, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode wrote: > Back in the day, I would create quick and simple demos of something I was > building as a concept, create standalones, and send them to the people I > wanted to demonstrate to. As an example of an example, suppose I wanted to > build a simple Eliza-like chatbot. I could throw a field on a card, put a > "start chat" button on it, and build logic in the field or the card to get > the job done. A few message handlers for EnterInField and ReturnInField > would get the job done. > > These days there are at least two flaws with that approach: > > 1. Often the people I want to demo to are using work computers that are > locked down from random app installs. > 2. Sometimes I want to build a demo the world at large can see, and clearly > installing an app from some random person is not the way to do that anymore. > > SO: is it accurate to say: > > 1. The above is possible > 2. I'd need a web-accessible place to store the files -- would google drive > be sufficient? > 3. I'd need to add an HTML5 license to my account > > Any best references for steps to follow? > > Thanks, > > Geoff > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ahsoftware at sonic.net Fri Sep 30 21:03:03 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2022 18:03:03 -0700 Subject: Quick and simple web demos? In-Reply-To: <4f9d310e-ac2f-9898-add9-39c1f6818e31@tweedly.net> References: <4f9d310e-ac2f-9898-add9-39c1f6818e31@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <1c2b91f5-739e-a661-d07e-7dc73d60df29@sonic.net> On 9/30/22 17:11, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote: > and the poor indexing/naming makes it tedious to try to find. ...and speaking of poor indexing etc... I was looking for a way to point the svgicon widget to an external svg file and finding that for some reason this isn't built into the widget. So I want online to livecodeshare and typed "svg" into the search field. Upper case. Lower case. Didn't matter - I still got zero results, even though I know there are several stacks to deal with svg files. Thank you so much for your Sample Stacks plugin, which does the job SO much better than that stupid web site. Still don't have an answer to my problem, but at least I can search properly. Over time I've gradually been replacing parts of my development environment with improvements: tinyDictionary, etc. Waiting for someone to build a better Proj Browser. BTW... I typed "Sample stacks" into the web search field and got 57 hits, only one of which had anything to do with sample stacks. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com