From panos.merakos at livecode.com Fri Apr 1 10:10:41 2022 From: panos.merakos at livecode.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2022 17:10:41 +0300 Subject: [ANN] Release 9.6.7 Message-ID: Dear list members, We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 9.6.7. You can find more details on the bug fixes and improvements of this new release here: https://livecode.com/9-6-7-stable-maintenance-release/ You can find the release in your LiveCode account area or get it via the automatic updater. Enjoy! Kind regards The LiveCode Team -- From mail at richard-hillen.de Fri Apr 1 12:07:54 2022 From: mail at richard-hillen.de (Hillen Richard) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2022 18:07:54 +0200 Subject: How to Do: Download per http In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Helo Paul, It works! Thank you! Richard. > > > On 3/31/2022 3:00 PM, Hillen Richard via use-livecode wrote: >> Hello, >> >> My Mac is by usb connected to an iPhone, on which is running the data-aggregator Phybox.app and aggregates the sensor-data of the internal acceleration-sensor. >> >> On Mac, when I write into the Safari address bar >> "http://192.168.178.66/export?format=1?, >> I receive the sampled data in a .xls-file by download from the iPhone-app. >> >> I would like to download this file by LiveCode. But I have no plan, how to do it. >> >> May you help? I am very grateful for tips. >> >> Richard. >> > > I think you can do: > > put URL "http://192.168.178.66/export?format=1" into URL > ("binfile:"&tLocalFile) -- where the variable tLocalFile contains the > file path to a new .xls file, such as > "/Users/Fred/Documents/mySensorData.xls" From curry at pair.com Fri Apr 1 12:24:00 2022 From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2022 12:24:00 -0400 Subject: [ANN] Release 9.6.7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: panos: > You can find more details on the bug fixes and improvements > of this new release here: > https://livecode.com/9-6-7-stable-maintenance-release/ Nice! Thanks for these fixes.... Best wishes, Curry Kenworthy WordLib: Import MS Word and OpenOffice files in LiveCode! "Dominate documents with WordLib and LC" http://livecodeaddons.com/wordlib.html Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development "Passion for Elegant and Efficient Code" http://livecodeconsulting.com/ From tom at makeshyft.com Sat Apr 2 00:42:29 2022 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2022 00:42:29 -0400 Subject: Debugger issues in 9.6.7 (unfolding array variables) Message-ID: Hi Folks, Today I upgraded my windows 10 LC installation to 9.6.7 and I'm finding I cannot unfold arrays while tracing code. I click and nothing happens. Anyone else? -- Tom Glod Founder & Developer @ MakeShyft R.D.A Build Software with AppStarterStack for Livecode Save Time with The Time Saver's Toolbox From paul at researchware.com Sat Apr 2 08:17:01 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2022 08:17:01 -0400 Subject: Debugger issues in 9.6.7 (unfolding array variables) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4f90c10a-0409-9e2f-2686-406a98bbfa51@researchware.com> On 4/2/2022 12:42 AM, Tom Glod via use-livecode wrote: > Hi Folks, > > Today I upgraded my windows 10 LC installation to 9.6.7 > and I'm finding I cannot unfold arrays while tracing code. > I click and nothing happens. > Anyone else? > I'm on Windows 10 (Dell AMD Ryzen 5) and just tested LC 9.6.7 STABLE with the following button script: on mouseUp pMouseButton   local tArray   put "A" into tArray[1]   put "B" into tArray[2]   put "C" into tArray[3]   --   wait 0 with messages end mouseUp With a debug point on the Wait statement. Clicking the button, opens the debugger and I can inspect the array, seeing all 3 elements, so it's working here for me. From tom at makeshyft.com Sat Apr 2 12:05:17 2022 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2022 12:05:17 -0400 Subject: Debugger issues in 9.6.7 (unfolding array variables) In-Reply-To: <4f90c10a-0409-9e2f-2686-406a98bbfa51@researchware.com> References: <4f90c10a-0409-9e2f-2686-406a98bbfa51@researchware.com> Message-ID: Thanks Paul. I'm going to work on creating a recipe. On Sat, Apr 2, 2022 at 8:18 AM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 4/2/2022 12:42 AM, Tom Glod via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Folks, > > > > Today I upgraded my windows 10 LC installation to 9.6.7 > > and I'm finding I cannot unfold arrays while tracing code. > > I click and nothing happens. > > Anyone else? > > > > I'm on Windows 10 (Dell AMD Ryzen 5) and just tested LC 9.6.7 STABLE > with the following button script: > on mouseUp pMouseButton > local tArray > put "A" into tArray[1] > put "B" into tArray[2] > put "C" into tArray[3] > -- > wait 0 with messages > end mouseUp > > With a debug point on the Wait statement. Clicking the button, opens the > debugger and I can inspect the array, seeing all 3 elements, so it's > working here for me. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Mon Apr 4 08:08:02 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 14:08:02 +0200 Subject: Hey Lurkers: Anyone still using LC 6.7? (Regulars too) In-Reply-To: <4FBE1931-F83B-401B-A895-0BDBF9B6DE19@gmail.com> References: <9a3bec49-4ffb-0078-27c7-4a3d60a1951c@pair.com> <4FBE1931-F83B-401B-A895-0BDBF9B6DE19@gmail.com> Message-ID: <70269A05-3645-4FC6-8E1D-F53BC1AB8052@m-r-d.de> > Am 10.03.2022 um 20:39 schrieb doc hawk via use-livecode : > > Gosh, I never got *any* version of 6 to work well enough to use! > Really? I've updated old and created new apps with different versions of LC6 w/o any big problems. The apps do db stuff (MSSQL and MySQL), FTP uploads/downloads, dp post/get requests and we used LC Server 6 on our webserver for several tasks e.g form processing, db communication, handling post requests and others. That all worked fine here. As soon as a new version, even DP, comes out and if time allows, i try to create at least our in-house apps with the new version. Firstly this helps to find bugs in the new version, at least in the areas our apps are using, and secondly, it ensures also that our apps can also be created with that new version. That above is, of course, not to say that others did not have problems with LC6. Just wanted to share my experience with 6 Matthias > :) > > There’s still switches in my code for 5, but there are enough other uses of later features of 7+ that it’s a non-issue. > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From benr_mc at cogapp.com Mon Apr 4 09:26:58 2022 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 14:26:58 +0100 Subject: Can't get jsonToArray in standalones ? Message-ID: Building a standalone that uses jsonToArray. Works fine in the IDE. If I use "search for required inclusions" when building the standaline, then when the script calls jsonToArray it throws error 219 (Function: error in function handler). If I use "select inclusions", and check "JSON Library", then it crashes. Interestingly, if I *uncheck* "JSON Library" from the inclusions, then it also crashes! (I expected it would throw error 219.) This is the same on LC 9.6.6 and 9.6.7; and (at least the crash) same on both Mac and Windows. My best guess is that I need to have something else checked in the inclusions - any suggestions? TIA, Ben From merakosp at gmail.com Mon Apr 4 10:08:48 2022 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis m) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 17:08:48 +0300 Subject: Can't get jsonToArray in standalones ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Ben, You need to check megJSON. The JSON Library inclusion is for JSONImport and JSONExport handlers. Cheers, Panos On Mon, 4 Apr 2022, 16:28 Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode, < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Building a standalone that uses jsonToArray. > > Works fine in the IDE. > > If I use "search for required inclusions" when building the standaline, > then > when the script calls jsonToArray it throws error 219 (Function: error in > function handler). > > If I use "select inclusions", and check "JSON Library", then it crashes. > > Interestingly, if I *uncheck* "JSON Library" from the inclusions, then it > also > crashes! (I expected it would throw error 219.) > > This is the same on LC 9.6.6 and 9.6.7; and (at least the crash) same on > both > Mac and Windows. > > My best guess is that I need to have something else checked in the > inclusions > - any suggestions? > > TIA, > > Ben > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From merakosp at gmail.com Mon Apr 4 10:09:40 2022 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis m) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 17:09:40 +0300 Subject: Can't get jsonToArray in standalones ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I mean mergJSON, not megJSON :) Cheers, Panos On Mon, 4 Apr 2022, 17:08 panagiotis m, wrote: > Hello Ben, > > You need to check megJSON. > > The JSON Library inclusion is for JSONImport and JSONExport handlers. > > Cheers, > Panos > > On Mon, 4 Apr 2022, 16:28 Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode, < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Building a standalone that uses jsonToArray. >> >> Works fine in the IDE. >> >> If I use "search for required inclusions" when building the standaline, >> then >> when the script calls jsonToArray it throws error 219 (Function: error in >> function handler). >> >> If I use "select inclusions", and check "JSON Library", then it crashes. >> >> Interestingly, if I *uncheck* "JSON Library" from the inclusions, then it >> also >> crashes! (I expected it would throw error 219.) >> >> This is the same on LC 9.6.6 and 9.6.7; and (at least the crash) same on >> both >> Mac and Windows. >> >> My best guess is that I need to have something else checked in the >> inclusions >> - any suggestions? >> >> TIA, >> >> Ben >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Mon Apr 4 10:15:01 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 16:15:01 +0200 Subject: Can't get jsonToArray in standalones ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <346AD107-68C8-41E4-9BE7-34760F796496@m-r-d.de> Panos, is there a reason why mergJSON is not listed in the dictionary anymore in LC 9.6.6,9.6.7, 10DDP2, 10DP3? Matthias > Am 04.04.2022 um 16:08 schrieb panagiotis m via use-livecode : > > Hello Ben, > > You need to check megJSON. > > The JSON Library inclusion is for JSONImport and JSONExport handlers. > > Cheers, > Panos > > On Mon, 4 Apr 2022, 16:28 Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode, < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Building a standalone that uses jsonToArray. >> >> Works fine in the IDE. >> >> If I use "search for required inclusions" when building the standaline, >> then >> when the script calls jsonToArray it throws error 219 (Function: error in >> function handler). >> >> If I use "select inclusions", and check "JSON Library", then it crashes. >> >> Interestingly, if I *uncheck* "JSON Library" from the inclusions, then it >> also >> crashes! (I expected it would throw error 219.) >> >> This is the same on LC 9.6.6 and 9.6.7; and (at least the crash) same on >> both >> Mac and Windows. >> >> My best guess is that I need to have something else checked in the >> inclusions >> - any suggestions? >> >> TIA, >> >> Ben >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From harrison at all-auctions.com Mon Apr 4 11:11:09 2022 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 11:11:09 -0400 Subject: Hey Lurkers: Anyone still using LC 6.7? (Regulars too) In-Reply-To: <70269A05-3645-4FC6-8E1D-F53BC1AB8052@m-r-d.de> References: <9a3bec49-4ffb-0078-27c7-4a3d60a1951c@pair.com> <4FBE1931-F83B-401B-A895-0BDBF9B6DE19@gmail.com> <70269A05-3645-4FC6-8E1D-F53BC1AB8052@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <312AF7AF-ABE8-4F22-8CC2-512439C5DD0D@all-auctions.com> Ah, the old days of LC 6.7 when LiveCode was fast. How much I miss that! Hopefully our new compiler when it comes out will make me feel that LC 6.7 was really slow. Thanks for the walk down memory lane! Rick From klaus at major-k.de Mon Apr 4 11:45:32 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 17:45:32 +0200 Subject: launch tFile with tApp Message-ID: <2ED289C6-969A-46AE-9013-CD3AD97B3EE0@major-k.de> Hi friends, macOS 10.3, LC 9.6.7 I have e.g. a MP3 file and want to open it with "Quicktime Player.app": ... ## tPrompt contains a localized string, of course answer file tPrompt with specialfolderpath("apps") with type "|app|" put it into tApp ## I select QTPLayer.app if the result = "cancel" then exit to top end if ## tDatei holds the complete path to the MP3 ## tApp the path to QTPlayer.app launch tDatei with tApp put the result ... It will open the MP3 with QTPlayer as desired BUT it also opens the file with "iTunes/Music" additionally!? And I don't want that! :-D The result is EMPTY. Bug or feature? And can I avoid to also open the file with "Music"? Thanks in advance! Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From klaus at major-k.de Mon Apr 4 12:06:24 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 18:06:24 +0200 Subject: launch tFile with tApp In-Reply-To: <2ED289C6-969A-46AE-9013-CD3AD97B3EE0@major-k.de> References: <2ED289C6-969A-46AE-9013-CD3AD97B3EE0@major-k.de> Message-ID: <2164F724-6816-4589-82FC-C87BCE0ED887@major-k.de> > Am 04.04.2022 um 17:45 schrieb Klaus major-k : > > Hi friends, > > macOS 10.3, LC 9.6.7 sorry, I mean macOS 12.3 > > I have e.g. a MP3 file and want to open it with "Quicktime Player.app": > ... > ## tPrompt contains a localized string, of course > answer file tPrompt with specialfolderpath("apps") with type "|app|" > put it into tApp > ## I select QTPLayer.app > if the result = "cancel" then > exit to top > end if > ## tDatei holds the complete path to the MP3 > ## tApp the path to QTPlayer.app > launch tDatei with tApp > put the result > ... > > It will open the MP3 with QTPlayer as desired BUT > it also opens the file with "iTunes/Music" additionally!? > And I don't want that! :-D > > The result is EMPTY. > > Bug or feature? > And can I avoid to also open the file with "Music"? > > Thanks in advance! > > > Best > > Klaus > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > https://www.major-k.de/bass > klaus at major-k.de From klaus at major-k.de Mon Apr 4 12:10:05 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 18:10:05 +0200 Subject: launch file with app Message-ID: <4643D19B-7CC1-4F1C-A1AF-FEFE955B73CB@major-k.de> Hi friends, macOS 12.3, LC 9.6.7 I have e.g. a MP3 file and want to open it with "Quicktime Player.app": ... ## tPrompt contains a localized string, of course answer file tPrompt with specialfolderpath("apps") with type "|app|" put it into tApp ## I select QTPLayer.app if the result = "cancel" then exit to top end if ## tDatei holds the complete path to the MP3 ## tApp the path to QTPlayer.app launch tDatei with tApp put the result ... It will open the MP3 with QTPlayer as desired BUT it also opens the file with "iTunes/Music" additionally!? And I don't want that! :-D The result is EMPTY. Bug or feature? And can I avoid to also open the file with "Music"? Thanks in advance! Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From merakosp at gmail.com Mon Apr 4 13:03:18 2022 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis m) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 20:03:18 +0300 Subject: Can't get jsonToArray in standalones ? In-Reply-To: <346AD107-68C8-41E4-9BE7-34760F796496@m-r-d.de> References: <346AD107-68C8-41E4-9BE7-34760F796496@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: Hello Matthias, Hmm, this sounds like a bug. Thanks for spotting it and filing the report :) Kind regards, Panos On Mon, 4 Apr 2022, 17:15 matthias rebbe via use-livecode, < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Panos, > > is there a reason why mergJSON is not listed in the dictionary anymore in > LC 9.6.6,9.6.7, 10DDP2, 10DP3? > > Matthias > > > Am 04.04.2022 um 16:08 schrieb panagiotis m via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: > > > > Hello Ben, > > > > You need to check megJSON. > > > > The JSON Library inclusion is for JSONImport and JSONExport handlers. > > > > Cheers, > > Panos > > > > On Mon, 4 Apr 2022, 16:28 Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode, < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > >> Building a standalone that uses jsonToArray. > >> > >> Works fine in the IDE. > >> > >> If I use "search for required inclusions" when building the standaline, > >> then > >> when the script calls jsonToArray it throws error 219 (Function: error > in > >> function handler). > >> > >> If I use "select inclusions", and check "JSON Library", then it crashes. > >> > >> Interestingly, if I *uncheck* "JSON Library" from the inclusions, then > it > >> also > >> crashes! (I expected it would throw error 219.) > >> > >> This is the same on LC 9.6.6 and 9.6.7; and (at least the crash) same on > >> both > >> Mac and Windows. > >> > >> My best guess is that I need to have something else checked in the > >> inclusions > >> - any suggestions? > >> > >> TIA, > >> > >> Ben > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From keith.clarke at me.com Mon Apr 4 13:03:27 2022 From: keith.clarke at me.com (Keith Clarke) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 18:03:27 +0100 Subject: Tools & techniques for one-off consolidation of multiple 'similar' CSV files? Message-ID: <83272CB1-BDD0-4DAB-9F20-6BECAF92A18B@me.com> Hi folks, I need to consolidate a couple of hundred CSV files of varying sizes (dozens to hundreds of rows) and column structures (some shared columns but many unique), into a single superset dataset that comprises all data from all files. There are too many files and columns to attempt a manual process, so in I’ve been trying to achieve this with LiveCode - by iterating through the files to parse the column header rows into into row template and column mapping arrays used to build the combined table. However, I'm struggling to both compile the superset and render the results. I feel I may be designing a very complicated solution for a problem that has probably been solved before. I wonder if I’m missing a simpler method - with LiveCode or perhaps with Excel or ‘drag & drop’ into some kind of self-organising database GUI for SQLite, etc? Thanks in advance for any ideas. Best, Keith From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Mon Apr 4 13:29:23 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 13:29:23 -0400 Subject: Tools & techniques for one-off consolidation of multiple 'similar' CSV files? In-Reply-To: <83272CB1-BDD0-4DAB-9F20-6BECAF92A18B@me.com> References: <83272CB1-BDD0-4DAB-9F20-6BECAF92A18B@me.com> Message-ID: keith, are all the files structured the same way? are they all gathered in the same place? LC's big strength, IMHO, is text handling, so you're right in its wheelhouse. for the simplest example, let's assume that all the files have all the same column layout and they're all in the same folder. in that case, you would * grab the list of files in the folder * exclude files that shouldn't be included - maybe filter everything that doesn't have a .csv suffix. you could do this during the loop, below, or ahead of time. * iterate through the files by reading each one, and appending the contents to a variable/container (if you do this, don't forget to make sure that when you append each file, the last line ends with a line delimiter) * create a new file * save the variable/container to the file slightly more complicated: the layouts aren't the same you can either: * rearrange the columns upon reading the file or * use something like an sqlite db and create a record for each row, assigning the column in each record based on the column name in the csv file, or * use a LC array, using the column names in the file as the keys of the array. * create a new file * output the result of whichever of the three solutions you chose to the new file. both the easy and less-easy scenarios should take, i'm guessing, somewhere between twenty and fifty lines of code, and are easy to implement. if you have a couple hundred files, i think that the LC solution would be much faster and easier to write, test, and run than the drag-and-drop solution. On Mon, Apr 4, 2022 at 1:04 PM Keith Clarke via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi folks, > I need to consolidate a couple of hundred CSV files of varying sizes > (dozens to hundreds of rows) and column structures (some shared columns but > many unique), into a single superset dataset that comprises all data from > all files. > > There are too many files and columns to attempt a manual process, so in > I’ve been trying to achieve this with LiveCode - by iterating through the > files to parse the column header rows into into row template and column > mapping arrays used to build the combined table. However, I'm struggling to > both compile the superset and render the results. > > I feel I may be designing a very complicated solution for a problem that > has probably been solved before. I wonder if I’m missing a simpler method - > with LiveCode or perhaps with Excel or ‘drag & drop’ into some kind of > self-organising database GUI for SQLite, etc? > > Thanks in advance for any ideas. > Best, > Keith > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon Apr 4 13:37:46 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 17:37:46 +0000 Subject: Tools & techniques for one-off consolidation of multiple 'similar' CSV files? In-Reply-To: References: <83272CB1-BDD0-4DAB-9F20-6BECAF92A18B@me.com> Message-ID: <3BDE48DB-FBA8-4CE1-8374-7F644A6DE02A@iotecdigital.com> Does all the data need to be in a single table? Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 4, 2022, at 10:31, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > keith, > are all the files structured the same way? are they all gathered in the > same place? > LC's big strength, IMHO, is text handling, so you're right in its > wheelhouse. > for the simplest example, let's assume that all the files have all the same > column layout and they're all in the same folder. > in that case, you would > * grab the list of files in the folder > * exclude files that shouldn't be included - maybe filter everything > that doesn't have a .csv suffix. you could do this during the loop, below, > or ahead of time. > * iterate through the files by reading each one, and appending the contents > to a variable/container (if you do this, don't forget to make sure that > when you append each file, the last line ends with a line delimiter) > * create a new file > * save the variable/container to the file > > slightly more complicated: the layouts aren't the same > you can either: > * rearrange the columns upon reading the file or > * use something like an sqlite db and create a record for each row, > assigning the column in each record based on the column name in the csv > file, or > * use a LC array, using the column names in the file as the keys of the > array. > * create a new file > * output the result of whichever of the three solutions you chose to the > new file. > > both the easy and less-easy scenarios should take, i'm guessing, somewhere > between twenty and fifty lines of code, and are easy to implement. if you > have a couple hundred files, i think that the LC solution would be much > faster and easier to write, test, and run than the drag-and-drop solution. > >> On Mon, Apr 4, 2022 at 1:04 PM Keith Clarke via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >> Hi folks, >> I need to consolidate a couple of hundred CSV files of varying sizes >> (dozens to hundreds of rows) and column structures (some shared columns but >> many unique), into a single superset dataset that comprises all data from >> all files. >> >> There are too many files and columns to attempt a manual process, so in >> I’ve been trying to achieve this with LiveCode - by iterating through the >> files to parse the column header rows into into row template and column >> mapping arrays used to build the combined table. However, I'm struggling to >> both compile the superset and render the results. >> >> I feel I may be designing a very complicated solution for a problem that >> has probably been solved before. I wonder if I’m missing a simpler method - >> with LiveCode or perhaps with Excel or ‘drag & drop’ into some kind of >> self-organising database GUI for SQLite, etc? >> >> Thanks in advance for any ideas. >> Best, >> Keith >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From craig at starfirelighting.com Mon Apr 4 15:58:15 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 15:58:15 -0400 Subject: Tools & techniques for one-off consolidation of multiple 'similar' CSV files? In-Reply-To: <3BDE48DB-FBA8-4CE1-8374-7F644A6DE02A@iotecdigital.com> References: <83272CB1-BDD0-4DAB-9F20-6BECAF92A18B@me.com> <3BDE48DB-FBA8-4CE1-8374-7F644A6DE02A@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Hi. I rarely deal with the csv monster, but every time I have had to it all boiled down to the fact that a comma is a terrible character to use as a delimiter of ANY kind. Ideally it would be possible to simply replace every comma with a tab. The returns remain untouched. If that works, you are very lucky. Have you tried it? Craig > On Apr 4, 2022, at 1:37 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > Does all the data need to be in a single table? > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Apr 4, 2022, at 10:31, Mike Kerner via use-livecode > wrote: >> >> keith, >> are all the files structured the same way? are they all gathered in the >> same place? >> LC's big strength, IMHO, is text handling, so you're right in its >> wheelhouse. >> for the simplest example, let's assume that all the files have all the same >> column layout and they're all in the same folder. >> in that case, you would >> * grab the list of files in the folder >> * exclude files that shouldn't be included - maybe filter everything >> that doesn't have a .csv suffix. you could do this during the loop, below, >> or ahead of time. >> * iterate through the files by reading each one, and appending the contents >> to a variable/container (if you do this, don't forget to make sure that >> when you append each file, the last line ends with a line delimiter) >> * create a new file >> * save the variable/container to the file >> >> slightly more complicated: the layouts aren't the same >> you can either: >> * rearrange the columns upon reading the file or >> * use something like an sqlite db and create a record for each row, >> assigning the column in each record based on the column name in the csv >> file, or >> * use a LC array, using the column names in the file as the keys of the >> array. >> * create a new file >> * output the result of whichever of the three solutions you chose to the >> new file. >> >> both the easy and less-easy scenarios should take, i'm guessing, somewhere >> between twenty and fifty lines of code, and are easy to implement. if you >> have a couple hundred files, i think that the LC solution would be much >> faster and easier to write, test, and run than the drag-and-drop solution. >> >>> On Mon, Apr 4, 2022 at 1:04 PM Keith Clarke via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > wrote: >>> >>> Hi folks, >>> I need to consolidate a couple of hundred CSV files of varying sizes >>> (dozens to hundreds of rows) and column structures (some shared columns but >>> many unique), into a single superset dataset that comprises all data from >>> all files. >>> >>> There are too many files and columns to attempt a manual process, so in >>> I’ve been trying to achieve this with LiveCode - by iterating through the >>> files to parse the column header rows into into row template and column >>> mapping arrays used to build the combined table. However, I'm struggling to >>> both compile the superset and render the results. >>> >>> I feel I may be designing a very complicated solution for a problem that >>> has probably been solved before. I wonder if I’m missing a simpler method - >>> with LiveCode or perhaps with Excel or ‘drag & drop’ into some kind of >>> self-organising database GUI for SQLite, etc? >>> >>> Thanks in advance for any ideas. >>> Best, >>> Keith >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> >> -- >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >> On the second day, God created the oceans. >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> and did a little diving. >> And God said, "This is good." >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From benr_mc at cogapp.com Mon Apr 4 17:55:09 2022 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 22:55:09 +0100 Subject: Tools & techniques for one-off consolidation of multiple 'similar' CSV files? In-Reply-To: <83272CB1-BDD0-4DAB-9F20-6BECAF92A18B@me.com> References: <83272CB1-BDD0-4DAB-9F20-6BECAF92A18B@me.com> Message-ID: <7bf90327-00ca-8154-41a3-74e420c4ee0a@cogapp.com> Hi Keith, I feel your pain. I spend a lot of time doing this kind of manipulation. I generally avoid CSV, the format of the devil. If necessary I have a library that does a reasonable job of converting CSV to TSV, and run everything through that. Let's just assume for now that you've already done this.... My technique is this: - given that you've got a routine to iterate over a folder or tree of files - given that you can easily treat a row at a time, and on each row can easily work through a column at a time (e.g., this is TSV, you've set the itemdelimiter to tab) - given that the first row in each file gives the column names 1. Maintain an ordered list of output column names I'd probably keep it in two formats: a string with tab separated column names, an array mapping column name to index, and a variable giving the number of columns. 2. For each file, go through the list of column names (the 'items' of the first row). For each one, if it's not already in the master list of column names (e.g., it's not in the array) then append it with a tab to the end of the string, and add it to the array with the appropriate index. Also keep an array mapping column index in _this_ file to column index in the master file. 3. Then for each row after that, start with an empty array. For each non-empty item on the row, add it to this 'row array', with the key being the index in the master file corresponding to this item's index in this file. 4. When you've got to the end of the row, dump the data from this array; index from 1 to number-of-master-columns, adding a tab between each. Then add this to the master file accumulator. So code would look something like this local tMasterColumns -- tab delimited column names for output 'master' file local aColumnNameToMasterIndex -- array mapping column name to index in above local iNumMasterColumns -- number of items in the above two local tMasterFileData -- will accumulate the rows of data for the output file local aFileIndexToMasterIndex -- for each file, maps index of column in file to index in master file local aRowData -- for each row, we first move data into this array... local tOutRow -- ...then output it into this string local iFileNumCols -- number of columns in the current input file local iFileColInx, iMasterColInx -- keep track of input and output col indices repeat for each file... load it into tFileData.. etc -- map the columns of this file to the (growing) columns of the masterfile put 0 into iFileColInx repeat for each item x in line 1 of tFileData add 1 to iFileColInx get aColumnNameToMasterIndex[x] if it = empty then put tab & x after tMasterColumns add 1 to iNumMasterColumns put iNumMasterColumns into aColumnNameToMasterIndex[x] get iNumMasterColumns end if -- now it is the index of this column in the master file put it into aFileIndexToMasterIndex[iFileColInx] end repeat delete line 1 of tFileData put iFileColInx into iFileNumCols repeat for each line tRowData in tFileData -- get data from the row into the proper columns put empty into aRowData repeat with i = 1 to iFileNumCols -- number of columns in this file put aFileIndexToMasterIndex[i] into iMasterColInx put item i of tRowData into aRowData[iMasterColInx] end repeat -- now dump the row put empty into tOutRow repeat with i = 1 to iNumMasterColumns put aRowData[i] & tab after tOutRow end repeat put (char 1 to -2 of tOutRow) \ -- delete last tab & return after tMasterFileData end repeat end repeat -- for each file -- finally save tMasterColumns & return & tMasterFileData On 04/04/2022 18:03, Keith Clarke via use-livecode wrote: > Hi folks, > I need to consolidate a couple of hundred CSV files of varying sizes (dozens to hundreds of rows) and column structures (some shared columns but many unique), into a single superset dataset that comprises all data from all files. > > There are too many files and columns to attempt a manual process, so in Ive been trying to achieve this with LiveCode - by iterating through the files to parse the column header rows into into row template and column mapping arrays used to build the combined table. However, I'm struggling to both compile the superset and render the results. > > I feel I may be designing a very complicated solution for a problem that has probably been solved before. I wonder if Im missing a simpler method - with LiveCode or perhaps with Excel or drag & drop into some kind of self-organising database GUI for SQLite, etc? > > Thanks in advance for any ideas. > Best, > Keith > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon Apr 4 18:40:23 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 22:40:23 +0000 Subject: Tools & techniques for one-off consolidation of multiple 'similar' CSV files? In-Reply-To: <3BDE48DB-FBA8-4CE1-8374-7F644A6DE02A@iotecdigital.com> References: <83272CB1-BDD0-4DAB-9F20-6BECAF92A18B@me.com> <3BDE48DB-FBA8-4CE1-8374-7F644A6DE02A@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <734FF391-F6BC-40A8-8D97-7FB54B0F9685@iotecdigital.com> Okay no answer to my question so here is why I ask. SQL databases typically have a limit on how many columns you can have, and how many total bytes a record will take. If it is possible to import each CSV file as a separate table, that would be ideal. If not you need to make yourself aware of those limits, and if you are going to exceed them, then SQL is not the way to go. CSV format is OK if the text fields are enclosed in quotes, and the numeric fields can be enclosed in quotes or not, it doesn't matter. If text fields ARE enclosed in quotes, then Excel should be able to open it natively, even if there are commas in the field text, that is not as delimiters. Id the fields are NOT enclosed in quotes, and the field text DOES contain commas, you are essentially screwed. Bob S > On Apr 4, 2022, at 10:37 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > Does all the data need to be in a single table? > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Apr 4, 2022, at 10:31, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: >> >> keith, >> are all the files structured the same way? are they all gathered in the >> same place? >> LC's big strength, IMHO, is text handling, so you're right in its >> wheelhouse. >> for the simplest example, let's assume that all the files have all the same >> column layout and they're all in the same folder. >> in that case, you would >> * grab the list of files in the folder >> * exclude files that shouldn't be included - maybe filter everything >> that doesn't have a .csv suffix. you could do this during the loop, below, >> or ahead of time. >> * iterate through the files by reading each one, and appending the contents >> to a variable/container (if you do this, don't forget to make sure that >> when you append each file, the last line ends with a line delimiter) >> * create a new file >> * save the variable/container to the file >> >> slightly more complicated: the layouts aren't the same >> you can either: >> * rearrange the columns upon reading the file or >> * use something like an sqlite db and create a record for each row, >> assigning the column in each record based on the column name in the csv >> file, or >> * use a LC array, using the column names in the file as the keys of the >> array. >> * create a new file >> * output the result of whichever of the three solutions you chose to the >> new file. >> >> both the easy and less-easy scenarios should take, i'm guessing, somewhere >> between twenty and fifty lines of code, and are easy to implement. if you >> have a couple hundred files, i think that the LC solution would be much >> faster and easier to write, test, and run than the drag-and-drop solution. >> >>> On Mon, Apr 4, 2022 at 1:04 PM Keith Clarke via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>> Hi folks, >>> I need to consolidate a couple of hundred CSV files of varying sizes >>> (dozens to hundreds of rows) and column structures (some shared columns but >>> many unique), into a single superset dataset that comprises all data from >>> all files. >>> >>> There are too many files and columns to attempt a manual process, so in >>> I’ve been trying to achieve this with LiveCode - by iterating through the >>> files to parse the column header rows into into row template and column >>> mapping arrays used to build the combined table. However, I'm struggling to >>> both compile the superset and render the results. >>> >>> I feel I may be designing a very complicated solution for a problem that >>> has probably been solved before. I wonder if I’m missing a simpler method - >>> with LiveCode or perhaps with Excel or ‘drag & drop’ into some kind of >>> self-organising database GUI for SQLite, etc? >>> >>> Thanks in advance for any ideas. >>> Best, >>> Keith >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> >> -- >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >> On the second day, God created the oceans. >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> and did a little diving. >> And God said, "This is good." >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From curry at pair.com Mon Apr 4 22:49:27 2022 From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 22:49:27 -0400 Subject: Hey Lurkers: Anyone still using LC 6.7? (Regulars too) In-Reply-To: <312AF7AF-ABE8-4F22-8CC2-512439C5DD0D@all-auctions.com> References: <312AF7AF-ABE8-4F22-8CC2-512439C5DD0D@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: <45c224bf-375d-61e9-2b95-056df0f3fa63@pair.com> Me: > I would like to know if some people still need LC 6.7. BTW, I will support LC 6.7 in most addons for 2022-2023! A few users still need it. Plus I like to benchmark with it and perform some debugging there. (After mid-2023, I'll gradually start moving past 6.7.) Rick: > Ah, the old days of LC 6.7 when LiveCode was fast. > How much I miss that! Yes! But LC 9 is getting there with optimization lately. Once a version of LC 9/10 beats LC 6.7 on most tasks, that will become my new benchmark to beat. Matthias: > I've updated old and created new apps with different > versions of LC6 w/o any big problems. Same here, for me LC 6.7 was more stable than 5, 7, or 8. All of which I also used for projects. 9 is pretty good. Best wishes, Curry Kenworthy WordLib: Import MS Word and OpenOffice files in LiveCode! "Dominate documents with WordLib and LC" http://livecodeaddons.com/wordlib.html Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development "Passion for Elegant and Efficient Code" http://livecodeconsulting.com/ From dick.kriesel at mail.com Tue Apr 5 00:43:11 2022 From: dick.kriesel at mail.com (Dick Kriesel) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 21:43:11 -0700 Subject: Confirm sort container order... In-Reply-To: References: <4a411e1c-2f2d-662d-92f8-786c002e931a@researchware.com> <146ED04A-C712-4CCE-92B1-C203D5BE36F4@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: > On Mar 30, 2022, at 2:16 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > > sort lines of tText by word 1 of each & word 2 of each & word 3 of each Hi, Paul. The only feature missing is padding the first two words: sort tText by pad( word 1 of each ) & pad( word 2 of each ) & word 3 of each function pad tString put "" into item 1000 of tString replace comma with space in tString return char 1 to 1000 of tString Does that work for you? — Dick From klaus at major-k.de Tue Apr 5 05:07:30 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 11:07:30 +0200 Subject: launch file with app In-Reply-To: <4643D19B-7CC1-4F1C-A1AF-FEFE955B73CB@major-k.de> References: <4643D19B-7CC1-4F1C-A1AF-FEFE955B73CB@major-k.de> Message-ID: <220E18B6-5E07-431A-95A1-FF6274565810@major-k.de> Hi all, > Am 04.04.2022 um 18:10 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode : > > Hi friends, > > macOS 12.3, LC 9.6.7 > > I have e.g. a MP3 file and want to open it with "Quicktime Player.app": > ... > ## tPrompt contains a localized string, of course > answer file tPrompt with specialfolderpath("apps") with type "|app|" > put it into tApp > ## I select QTPLayer.app > if the result = "cancel" then > exit to top > end if > ## tDatei holds the complete path to the MP3 > ## tApp the path to QTPlayer.app > launch tDatei with tApp > put the result > ... > > It will open the MP3 with QTPlayer as desired BUT > it also opens the file with "iTunes/Music" additionally!? > And I don't want that! :-D > > The result is EMPTY. must have been a temporary "glitch" since it did not happen today. And a HTML file was opened with "TextEdit.app" as expected and did not start "Safari". But will keep an eye on this! 8-) Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From klaus at major-k.de Tue Apr 5 05:08:05 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 11:08:05 +0200 Subject: launch tFile with tApp In-Reply-To: <2ED289C6-969A-46AE-9013-CD3AD97B3EE0@major-k.de> References: <2ED289C6-969A-46AE-9013-CD3AD97B3EE0@major-k.de> Message-ID: Hi all, > Am 04.04.2022 um 18:10 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode : > > Hi friends, > > macOS 12.3, LC 9.6.7 > > I have e.g. a MP3 file and want to open it with "Quicktime Player.app": > ... > ## tPrompt contains a localized string, of course > answer file tPrompt with specialfolderpath("apps") with type "|app|" > put it into tApp > ## I select QTPLayer.app > if the result = "cancel" then > exit to top > end if > ## tDatei holds the complete path to the MP3 > ## tApp the path to QTPlayer.app > launch tDatei with tApp > put the result > ... > > It will open the MP3 with QTPlayer as desired BUT > it also opens the file with "iTunes/Music" additionally!? > And I don't want that! :-D > > The result is EMPTY. must have been a temporary "glitch" since it did not happen today. And a HTML file was opened with "TextEdit.app" as expected and did not start "Safari". But will keep an eye on this! 8-) Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From craig at starfirelighting.com Tue Apr 5 09:31:07 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 09:31:07 -0400 Subject: Confirm sort container order... In-Reply-To: References: <4a411e1c-2f2d-662d-92f8-786c002e931a@researchware.com> <146ED04A-C712-4CCE-92B1-C203D5BE36F4@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: Time to check the forum. Bernd has made a very significant contribution. https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=36893 > On Apr 5, 2022, at 12:43 AM, Dick Kriesel via use-livecode wrote: > > >> On Mar 30, 2022, at 2:16 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: >> >> sort lines of tText by word 1 of each & word 2 of each & word 3 of each > > Hi, Paul. > > The only feature missing is padding the first two words: > > sort tText by pad( word 1 of each ) & pad( word 2 of each ) & word 3 of each > > > function pad tString > put "" into item 1000 of tString > replace comma with space in tString > return char 1 to 1000 of tString > > > Does that work for you? > > — Dick > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Tue Apr 5 10:43:29 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 10:43:29 -0400 Subject: Confirm sort container order... In-Reply-To: References: <4a411e1c-2f2d-662d-92f8-786c002e931a@researchware.com> <9B2F81C6-CB3D-4D2C-A62F-A402E52CBF48@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: <1ef8a4a4-662e-d49a-0cd4-cbdc62dee5f6@researchware.com> All those forum efforts (except Richard's) ignore that the dictionary entry states that the "sort" command is a stable sort precisely so that you can do multiple sorts to sort by multiple chunks Whether you do   sort lines of tText by word 3 of each   sort lines of tText by word 2 of each   sort lines of tText by word 1 of each or repeat from i = 3 down to 1   sort lines of tText by word i of each end repeat and whether you want to sort by "word i of each" or "item i of each" or "token i of each" or whatever, the multiple sort commands is the LC recommended way to perform  multi-level sort. On 3/30/2022 4:16 PM, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: > I hate that one cannot edit previous posts here like we can on the forum. > > I meant tabs. not tase. > > Craig > >> On Mar 30, 2022, at 4:15 PM, Craig Newman wrote: >> >> I am assuming here that there are spaces separating the chars in your list. The use of words will also delimit if those are tase instead of spaces. But the method is worth exploring >> >> Craig >> >>> On Mar 30, 2022, at 3:39 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode > wrote: >>> >>> A B C >>> A A B >>> A B A >>> A A A >>> A A C > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From craig at starfirelighting.com Tue Apr 5 10:58:22 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 10:58:22 -0400 Subject: Confirm sort container order... In-Reply-To: <1ef8a4a4-662e-d49a-0cd4-cbdc62dee5f6@researchware.com> References: <4a411e1c-2f2d-662d-92f8-786c002e931a@researchware.com> <9B2F81C6-CB3D-4D2C-A62F-A402E52CBF48@starfirelighting.com> <1ef8a4a4-662e-d49a-0cd4-cbdc62dee5f6@researchware.com> Message-ID: <6696E2A0-72AA-45DF-A96A-623B0CE5195F@starfirelighting.com> Paul. Certainly, and in the forum discussion your point, about the mainstream, recommended and “correct” way to sort was mentioned several times. The discussion may seem academic to some, and perhaps pointless to others. But I like this sort of nonsense, and actually believe it is rather more than just that. In fact, it speaks to the internal working of the “sort” command itself, which seems counterintuitive at least, and a mystery at best. I like LC mysteries. And there just might be something worthwhile to learn... Craig > On Apr 5, 2022, at 10:43 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > > All those forum efforts (except Richard's) ignore that the dictionary entry states that the "sort" command is a stable sort precisely so that you can do multiple sorts to sort by multiple chunks > > Whether you do > > sort lines of tText by word 3 of each > sort lines of tText by word 2 of each > sort lines of tText by word 1 of each > > or > > repeat from i = 3 down to 1 > sort lines of tText by word i of each > end repeat > > and whether you want to sort by "word i of each" or "item i of each" or "token i of each" or whatever, the multiple sort commands is the LC recommended way to perform multi-level sort. > > > On 3/30/2022 4:16 PM, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: >> I hate that one cannot edit previous posts here like we can on the forum. >> >> I meant “tabs”. not “tase”. >> >> Craig >> >>> On Mar 30, 2022, at 4:15 PM, Craig Newman wrote: >>> >>> I am assuming here that there are spaces separating the chars in your list. The use of “words” will also delimit if those are tase instead of spaces. But the method is worth exploring… >>> >>> Craig >>> >>>> On Mar 30, 2022, at 3:39 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode > wrote: >>>> >>>> A B C >>>> A A B >>>> A B A >>>> A A A >>>> A A C >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From keith.clarke at me.com Tue Apr 5 12:02:30 2022 From: keith.clarke at me.com (Keith Clarke) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 17:02:30 +0100 Subject: CSV to TSV (was Re: Tools & techniques for one-off consolidation of multiple 'similar' CSV files?) In-Reply-To: References: <83272CB1-BDD0-4DAB-9F20-6BECAF92A18B@me.com> Message-ID: <4BF2491F-136C-44E3-A748-E03C29638F67@me.com> Hi folks, Thanks all for the responses and ideas on consolidating multiple CSV files into - much appreciated. Ben - Thank you for sharing your working recipe. This lifted my spirits as it showed I was on the right path (very nearly!) and you moved me on a big step from where I was stuck. My script was successfully iterating through folders and files, with filtering to get a file list of just CSVs with their paths for onward processing. I’d also identified the need to maintain registers of (growing) column names, together with a master row template and a mapping of the current file’s column headers in row-1 to the master to put align output columns. I got stuck when I set up nested repeat loops for files, then lines, then items and was trying to deal with row 1 column headers and data rows at the same time, which got rather confusing. Separating the column name processing from parsing row data made life a lot simpler and I’ve now got LC parsing the ~200 CSV files into a ~60,000 row TSV file that opens in Excel. However… I’m getting cells dropped into the wrong columns in the output file. So, I’m wondering if delimiters are broken in my CSV-to-TSV pre-processing. Can anyone spot any obvious errors or omissions in the following... -- convert from CSV to TSV replace tab with space in tFileData -- clear any tabs in the content before setting as a delimiter replace quote & comma & quote with tab in tFileData -- change delimiter for quoted values replace comma with tab in tFileData -- change delimiter for unquoted values replace quote with "" in tFileData -- clear quotes in first & last items set the itemDelimiter to tab Best, Keith From paul at researchware.com Tue Apr 5 12:08:42 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 12:08:42 -0400 Subject: Confirm sort container order... In-Reply-To: <6696E2A0-72AA-45DF-A96A-623B0CE5195F@starfirelighting.com> References: <4a411e1c-2f2d-662d-92f8-786c002e931a@researchware.com> <9B2F81C6-CB3D-4D2C-A62F-A402E52CBF48@starfirelighting.com> <1ef8a4a4-662e-d49a-0cd4-cbdc62dee5f6@researchware.com> <6696E2A0-72AA-45DF-A96A-623B0CE5195F@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: On 4/5/2022 10:58 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: > The discussion may seem academic to some, and perhaps pointless to others. But I like this sort of nonsense, and actually believe it is rather more than just that. In fact, it speaks to the internal working of the sort command itself, which seems counterintuitive at least, and a mystery at best. > > I certainly agree a nice enhancement to sort would be something like sort lines of by item 3 of each then [by] item 2 of each then [by] item 1 of each to replicate exactly (below) but in a single, easier to read, line sort lines of by item 3 of each sort lines of by item 2 of each sort lines of by item 1 of each a reduction in code and a more intuitive way of stating a multi-level sort with the addition of a "then", "then by", or some sort of delimiter keyword Still that assumes you want to do an ascending text sort for all 3 levels, since ascending text is the default and the syntax is sort lines ascending text by item 3 of each If you want different sorts for each key sort lines of ascending text by item 3 of each sort lines of descending numeric by item 2 of each sort lines of ascending international by item 1 of each might still be easier that any new syntax that reads something like: sort lines of by item 3 of each ascending text then by item 2 of each descending numeric then by item 1 of each ascending international Although the single line is slightly shorter code and still relatively easy to read. Still, I have NO idea how difficult it would be to add the syntax to the LC engine. If not too difficult to implement, it could be a handy enhancement to LC's sort. From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Tue Apr 5 12:09:08 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 12:09:08 -0400 Subject: CSV to TSV (was Re: Tools & techniques for one-off consolidation of multiple 'similar' CSV files?) In-Reply-To: <4BF2491F-136C-44E3-A748-E03C29638F67@me.com> References: <83272CB1-BDD0-4DAB-9F20-6BECAF92A18B@me.com> <4BF2491F-136C-44E3-A748-E03C29638F67@me.com> Message-ID: I'm confused by the code, above. If you are using tab as your column delimiter, then you wouldn't replace it with a space, since your tsv/csv files would have tabs in them when they were exported, originally. In any case, when you are going to replace a character with another character, you should make sure that the character you are replacing it to either a) does not have any special meaning (e.g. a delimiter) or b) if it does have a special meaning that it does not appear in the data, already. From keith.clarke at me.com Tue Apr 5 12:36:11 2022 From: keith.clarke at me.com (Keith Clarke) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 17:36:11 +0100 Subject: CSV to TSV (was Re: Tools & techniques for one-off consolidation of multiple 'similar' CSV files?) In-Reply-To: References: <83272CB1-BDD0-4DAB-9F20-6BECAF92A18B@me.com> <4BF2491F-136C-44E3-A748-E03C29638F67@me.com> Message-ID: This code sits early in the process of preparing CSV file data (from files that I didn’t create, so their content is unknown) into TSV text for onward processing. So, the logic here is attempting to address the very concerns that you raise, albeit in reverse order i.e. - remove any tab characters with (future) special meaning from the (CSV) data before introducing tabs as delimiters - to avoid false item-breaks downstream. - swap out the two forms of CSV delimiter (commas between quotes and commas) with the alternative tab delimiters …and finally clean up any orphan quotes left at the beginning of the first item in the line or end of the last. Best, Keith > On 5 Apr 2022, at 17:09, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > I'm confused by the code, above. If you are using tab as your column > delimiter, then you wouldn't replace it with a space, since your tsv/csv > files would have tabs in them when they were exported, originally. > In any case, when you are going to replace a character with another > character, you should make sure that the character you are replacing it to > either a) does not have any special meaning (e.g. a delimiter) or b) if it > does have a special meaning that it does not appear in the data, already. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From heather at livecode.com Tue Apr 5 12:54:20 2022 From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 17:54:20 +0100 Subject: Flash Talks - 3 slots remaining Message-ID: Dear Good Folks of the Use-list, I'm in the final throes of scheduling our upcoming online conference on 25-27th April. Its looking great! Multiple fabulous talks have come in, there is loads of rich content, we have panels, keynotes and workshops galore! We're just missing 3 flashtalks to round out the Flash Talks section on Day 3. I know at least 3 of you good people can speak for a mere 7 minutes on your topic of choice. Roll up roll up... and send me a talk submission :) Pretty please? https://livecode.com/global/apply-to-speak/ It's going to be a great event. Warmest Regards to all, Heather P.S. Where is the conference schedule to be seen, I hear you ask? Right here: https://livecode.com/global/schedule/ Heather Laine Customer Services Manager and Conference Organizer Extraordinaire LiveCode Ltd www.livecode.com From alex at tweedly.net Tue Apr 5 13:17:01 2022 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 18:17:01 +0100 Subject: CSV to TSV (was Re: Tools & techniques for one-off consolidation of multiple 'similar' CSV files?) In-Reply-To: <4BF2491F-136C-44E3-A748-E03C29638F67@me.com> References: <83272CB1-BDD0-4DAB-9F20-6BECAF92A18B@me.com> <4BF2491F-136C-44E3-A748-E03C29638F67@me.com> Message-ID: Hi Keith, that code will fail for any commas which occur within quoted entries - they will be wrongly converted to TABs I'd suggest getting cvsToTab (a community effort by Richard Gaskin, me and a whole host of others over the years) as a good starting place, and perhaps finishing place. It will handle most CSV oddities (not all of them - that is provably impossible :-). This does an efficient walk through the data, remembering whether it is inside or outside quoted entries, and hence handles commas accordingly. https://github.com/macMikey/csvToText/blob/master/csvToTab.livecodescript Alex. On 05/04/2022 17:02, Keith Clarke via use-livecode wrote: > Hi folks, > Thanks all for the responses and ideas on consolidating multiple CSV files into - much appreciated. > > Ben - Thank you for sharing your working recipe. This lifted my spirits as it showed I was on the right path (very nearly!) and you moved me on a big step from where I was stuck. > > My script was successfully iterating through folders and files, with filtering to get a file list of just CSVs with their paths for onward processing. Id also identified the need to maintain registers of (growing) column names, together with a master row template and a mapping of the current files column headers in row-1 to the master to put align output columns. I got stuck when I set up nested repeat loops for files, then lines, then items and was trying to deal with row 1 column headers and data rows at the same time, which got rather confusing. Separating the column name processing from parsing row data made life a lot simpler and Ive now got LC parsing the ~200 CSV files into a ~60,000 row TSV file that opens in Excel. > > However Im getting cells dropped into the wrong columns in the output file. So, Im wondering if delimiters are broken in my CSV-to-TSV pre-processing. Can anyone spot any obvious errors or omissions in the following... > -- convert from CSV to TSV > > replace tab with space in tFileData -- clear any tabs in the content before setting as a delimiter > > replace quote & comma & quote with tab in tFileData -- change delimiter for quoted values > > replace comma with tab in tFileData -- change delimiter for unquoted values > > replace quote with "" in tFileData -- clear quotes in first & last items > > set the itemDelimiter to tab > > Best, > Keith > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From andre at andregarzia.com Tue Apr 5 13:17:30 2022 From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 18:17:30 +0100 Subject: launch tFile with tApp In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: What about using AppleScript to force it to open with a given app? Sent from my iPhone > On 5 Apr 2022, at 10:08, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi all, > >> Am 04.04.2022 um 18:10 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode : >> >> Hi friends, >> >> macOS 12.3, LC 9.6.7 >> >> I have e.g. a MP3 file and want to open it with "Quicktime Player.app": >> ... >> ## tPrompt contains a localized string, of course >> answer file tPrompt with specialfolderpath("apps") with type "|app|" >> put it into tApp >> ## I select QTPLayer.app >> if the result = "cancel" then >> exit to top >> end if >> ## tDatei holds the complete path to the MP3 >> ## tApp the path to QTPlayer.app >> launch tDatei with tApp >> put the result >> ... >> >> It will open the MP3 with QTPlayer as desired BUT >> it also opens the file with "iTunes/Music" additionally!? >> And I don't want that! :-D >> >> The result is EMPTY. > > must have been a temporary "glitch" since it did not happen today. > > And a HTML file was opened with "TextEdit.app" as expected and did > not start "Safari". > > But will keep an eye on this! 8-) > > > Best > > Klaus > > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > https://www.major-k.de/bass > klaus at major-k.de > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From keith.clarke at me.com Tue Apr 5 13:28:23 2022 From: keith.clarke at me.com (Keith Clarke) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 18:28:23 +0100 Subject: CSV to TSV (was Re: Tools & techniques for one-off consolidation of multiple 'similar' CSV files?) In-Reply-To: References: <83272CB1-BDD0-4DAB-9F20-6BECAF92A18B@me.com> <4BF2491F-136C-44E3-A748-E03C29638F67@me.com> Message-ID: Ah, thanks Alex - I’ll dig into that. I did search around for CSV to TSV in several places before posting but not CSV to Tab and not github! Best, Keith > On 5 Apr 2022, at 18:17, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Keith, > > that code will fail for any commas which occur within quoted entries - they will be wrongly converted to TABs > > I'd suggest getting cvsToTab (a community effort by Richard Gaskin, me and a whole host of others over the years) as a good starting place, and perhaps finishing place. It will handle most CSV oddities (not all of them - that is provably impossible :-). > > This does an efficient walk through the data, remembering whether it is inside or outside quoted entries, and hence handles commas accordingly. > > https://github.com/macMikey/csvToText/blob/master/csvToTab.livecodescript > > Alex. > > On 05/04/2022 17:02, Keith Clarke via use-livecode wrote: >> Hi folks, >> Thanks all for the responses and ideas on consolidating multiple CSV files into - much appreciated. >> >> Ben - Thank you for sharing your working recipe. This lifted my spirits as it showed I was on the right path (very nearly!) and you moved me on a big step from where I was stuck. >> >> My script was successfully iterating through folders and files, with filtering to get a file list of just CSVs with their paths for onward processing. I’d also identified the need to maintain registers of (growing) column names, together with a master row template and a mapping of the current file’s column headers in row-1 to the master to put align output columns. I got stuck when I set up nested repeat loops for files, then lines, then items and was trying to deal with row 1 column headers and data rows at the same time, which got rather confusing. Separating the column name processing from parsing row data made life a lot simpler and I’ve now got LC parsing the ~200 CSV files into a ~60,000 row TSV file that opens in Excel. >> >> However… I’m getting cells dropped into the wrong columns in the output file. So, I’m wondering if delimiters are broken in my CSV-to-TSV pre-processing. Can anyone spot any obvious errors or omissions in the following... >> -- convert from CSV to TSV >> >> replace tab with space in tFileData -- clear any tabs in the content before setting as a delimiter >> >> replace quote & comma & quote with tab in tFileData -- change delimiter for quoted values >> >> replace comma with tab in tFileData -- change delimiter for unquoted values >> >> replace quote with "" in tFileData -- clear quotes in first & last items >> >> set the itemDelimiter to tab >> >> Best, >> Keith >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From klaus at major-k.de Tue Apr 5 13:33:08 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 19:33:08 +0200 Subject: launch tFile with tApp In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <89F109FF-BA7D-4CBB-B02C-F784E2D11051@major-k.de> Hi Andre, > Am 05.04.2022 um 19:17 schrieb Andre Garzia via use-livecode : > > What about using AppleScript to force it to open with a given app? please read my last posting, you even quoted it here. But I will consider this, if it will fail again or better if it will fail "reliably". :-D > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 5 Apr 2022, at 10:08, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >>> Am 04.04.2022 um 18:10 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode : >>> >>> Hi friends, >>> >>> macOS 12.3, LC 9.6.7 >>> >>> I have e.g. a MP3 file and want to open it with "Quicktime Player.app": >>> ... >>> ## tPrompt contains a localized string, of course >>> answer file tPrompt with specialfolderpath("apps") with type "|app|" >>> put it into tApp >>> ## I select QTPLayer.app >>> if the result = "cancel" then >>> exit to top >>> end if >>> ## tDatei holds the complete path to the MP3 >>> ## tApp the path to QTPlayer.app >>> launch tDatei with tApp >>> put the result >>> ... >>> >>> It will open the MP3 with QTPlayer as desired BUT >>> it also opens the file with "iTunes/Music" additionally!? >>> And I don't want that! :-D >>> >>> The result is EMPTY. >> >> must have been a temporary "glitch" since it did not happen today. >> >> And a HTML file was opened with "TextEdit.app" as expected and did >> not start "Safari". >> >> But will keep an eye on this! 8-) Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From craig at starfirelighting.com Tue Apr 5 13:36:11 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 13:36:11 -0400 Subject: Flash Talks - 3 slots remaining In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <33668918-E35F-4F67-80C1-9C2FF56678B8@starfirelighting.com> Heather. I probably am one of the oddest LC users. Entirely for either my own use or for my company. Only once did I sell a system commercially. But I do use LC to control three very different machines in our shop. Would it be of any interest to anyone to see one of these in operation? Regards, Craig Newman (dunbarx) > On Apr 5, 2022, at 12:54 PM, Heather Laine via use-livecode wrote: > > Dear Good Folks of the Use-list, > > I'm in the final throes of scheduling our upcoming online conference on 25-27th April. Its looking great! Multiple fabulous talks have come in, there is loads of rich content, we have panels, keynotes and workshops galore! We're just missing 3 flashtalks to round out the Flash Talks section on Day 3. I know at least 3 of you good people can speak for a mere 7 minutes on your topic of choice. Roll up roll up... and send me a talk submission :) Pretty please? > > https://livecode.com/global/apply-to-speak/ > > It's going to be a great event. > > Warmest Regards to all, > > Heather > > P.S. Where is the conference schedule to be seen, I hear you ask? Right here: > > https://livecode.com/global/schedule/ > > Heather Laine > Customer Services Manager and Conference Organizer Extraordinaire > LiveCode Ltd > www.livecode.com > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From andre at andregarzia.com Tue Apr 5 13:41:08 2022 From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 18:41:08 +0100 Subject: Flash Talks - 3 slots remaining In-Reply-To: <33668918-E35F-4F67-80C1-9C2FF56678B8@starfirelighting.com> References: <33668918-E35F-4F67-80C1-9C2FF56678B8@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: I think this is very interesting. I’d love to watch a flash talk on it. Sent from my iPhone > On 5 Apr 2022, at 18:38, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: > > Heather. > > I probably am one of the oddest LC users. Entirely for either my own use or for my company. Only once did I sell a system commercially. > > But I do use LC to control three very different machines in our shop. Would it be of any interest to anyone to see one of these in operation? > > Regards, > > Craig Newman (dunbarx) > > > >> On Apr 5, 2022, at 12:54 PM, Heather Laine via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Dear Good Folks of the Use-list, >> >> I'm in the final throes of scheduling our upcoming online conference on 25-27th April. Its looking great! Multiple fabulous talks have come in, there is loads of rich content, we have panels, keynotes and workshops galore! We're just missing 3 flashtalks to round out the Flash Talks section on Day 3. I know at least 3 of you good people can speak for a mere 7 minutes on your topic of choice. Roll up roll up... and send me a talk submission :) Pretty please? >> >> https://livecode.com/global/apply-to-speak/ >> >> It's going to be a great event. >> >> Warmest Regards to all, >> >> Heather >> >> P.S. Where is the conference schedule to be seen, I hear you ask? Right here: >> >> https://livecode.com/global/schedule/ >> >> Heather Laine >> Customer Services Manager and Conference Organizer Extraordinaire >> LiveCode Ltd >> www.livecode.com >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From alex at tweedly.net Tue Apr 5 13:48:45 2022 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 18:48:45 +0100 Subject: Flash Talks - 3 slots remaining In-Reply-To: <33668918-E35F-4F67-80C1-9C2FF56678B8@starfirelighting.com> References: <33668918-E35F-4F67-80C1-9C2FF56678B8@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: <69ce9acd-739b-7d4d-1811-087b059f1c5d@tweedly.net> Sounds fascinating - I'd love to hear about that. Alex. On 05/04/2022 18:36, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: > Heather. > > I probably am one of the oddest LC users. Entirely for either my own use or for my company. Only once did I sell a system commercially. > > But I do use LC to control three very different machines in our shop. Would it be of any interest to anyone to see one of these in operation? > > Regards, > > Craig Newman (dunbarx) > > > >> On Apr 5, 2022, at 12:54 PM, Heather Laine via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Dear Good Folks of the Use-list, >> >> I'm in the final throes of scheduling our upcoming online conference on 25-27th April. Its looking great! Multiple fabulous talks have come in, there is loads of rich content, we have panels, keynotes and workshops galore! We're just missing 3 flashtalks to round out the Flash Talks section on Day 3. I know at least 3 of you good people can speak for a mere 7 minutes on your topic of choice. Roll up roll up... and send me a talk submission :) Pretty please? >> >> https://livecode.com/global/apply-to-speak/ >> >> It's going to be a great event. >> >> Warmest Regards to all, >> >> Heather >> >> P.S. Where is the conference schedule to be seen, I hear you ask? Right here: >> >> https://livecode.com/global/schedule/ >> >> Heather Laine >> Customer Services Manager and Conference Organizer Extraordinaire >> LiveCode Ltd >> www.livecode.com >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From craig at starfirelighting.com Tue Apr 5 13:52:05 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 13:52:05 -0400 Subject: Confirm sort container order... In-Reply-To: References: <4a411e1c-2f2d-662d-92f8-786c002e931a@researchware.com> <9B2F81C6-CB3D-4D2C-A62F-A402E52CBF48@starfirelighting.com> <1ef8a4a4-662e-d49a-0cd4-cbdc62dee5f6@researchware.com> <6696E2A0-72AA-45DF-A96A-623B0CE5195F@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: <4275F9C0-2BAF-43FC-A96E-EE3867ECEE86@starfirelighting.com> Paul. I see you have come to the dark side. Welcome. “Sort", and its newly reborn compound variant, works fine as "sort it ascending numeric by word 1 of each && word 2 of each && word 3 of each” Since “lines” are the default, all one needs, and I mentioned this on the forum, is to determine the line with the greatest number of words, and build the string accordingly. This takes another couple of lines of code, but no more than having that very same number laid out in a series of single line sorts, still having to be determined by the maximum number of words or items. whatever. Craig > On Apr 5, 2022, at 12:08 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > > On 4/5/2022 10:58 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: >> The discussion may seem academic to some, and perhaps pointless to others. But I like this sort of nonsense, and actually believe it is rather more than just that. In fact, it speaks to the internal working of the “sort” command itself, which seems counterintuitive at least, and a mystery at best. >> >> > > I certainly agree a nice enhancement to sort would be something like > > sort lines of by item 3 of each then [by] item 2 of each then [by] item 1 of each > > to replicate exactly (below) but in a single, easier to read, line > > sort lines of by item 3 of each > sort lines of by item 2 of each > sort lines of by item 1 of each > > a reduction in code and a more intuitive way of stating a multi-level sort with the addition of a "then", "then by", or some sort of delimiter keyword > > Still that assumes you want to do an ascending text sort for all 3 levels, since ascending text is the default and the syntax is > > sort lines ascending text by item 3 of each > > If you want different sorts for each key > > sort lines of ascending text by item 3 of each > sort lines of descending numeric by item 2 of each > sort lines of ascending international by item 1 of each > > might still be easier that any new syntax that reads something like: > > sort lines of by item 3 of each ascending text then by item 2 of each descending numeric then by item 1 of each ascending international > > Although the single line is slightly shorter code and still relatively easy to read. Still, I have NO idea how difficult it would be to add the syntax to the LC engine. If not too difficult to implement, it could be a handy enhancement to LC's sort. > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From craig at starfirelighting.com Tue Apr 5 13:54:01 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 13:54:01 -0400 Subject: Flash Talks - 3 slots remaining In-Reply-To: References: <33668918-E35F-4F67-80C1-9C2FF56678B8@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: <7688300A-DD6C-4D1C-B3FE-7082608DC93C@starfirelighting.com> How is that done? From my phone with a cameraman? The talk would only make sense with me in front of the running machine itself, making noise. Craig > On Apr 5, 2022, at 1:41 PM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode wrote: > > I think this is very interesting. I’d love to watch a flash talk on it. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 5 Apr 2022, at 18:38, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Heather. >> >> I probably am one of the oddest LC users. Entirely for either my own use or for my company. Only once did I sell a system commercially. >> >> But I do use LC to control three very different machines in our shop. Would it be of any interest to anyone to see one of these in operation? >> >> Regards, >> >> Craig Newman (dunbarx) >> >> >> >>> On Apr 5, 2022, at 12:54 PM, Heather Laine via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> Dear Good Folks of the Use-list, >>> >>> I'm in the final throes of scheduling our upcoming online conference on 25-27th April. Its looking great! Multiple fabulous talks have come in, there is loads of rich content, we have panels, keynotes and workshops galore! We're just missing 3 flashtalks to round out the Flash Talks section on Day 3. I know at least 3 of you good people can speak for a mere 7 minutes on your topic of choice. Roll up roll up... and send me a talk submission :) Pretty please? >>> >>> https://livecode.com/global/apply-to-speak/ >>> >>> It's going to be a great event. >>> >>> Warmest Regards to all, >>> >>> Heather >>> >>> P.S. Where is the conference schedule to be seen, I hear you ask? Right here: >>> >>> https://livecode.com/global/schedule/ >>> >>> Heather Laine >>> Customer Services Manager and Conference Organizer Extraordinaire >>> LiveCode Ltd >>> www.livecode.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From alex at tweedly.net Tue Apr 5 15:07:34 2022 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 20:07:34 +0100 Subject: Flash Talks - 3 slots remaining In-Reply-To: <7688300A-DD6C-4D1C-B3FE-7082608DC93C@starfirelighting.com> References: <33668918-E35F-4F67-80C1-9C2FF56678B8@starfirelighting.com> <7688300A-DD6C-4D1C-B3FE-7082608DC93C@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: Do you need to be in front of the running machine ? Could you maybe video the machine going through its sequence - then record your voice-over later (either muting or turning down the machine audio, whichever is better) ? (Or, to put it another way, I have no real idea :-) but I'm sure Heather can help you. Alex. On 05/04/2022 18:54, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: > How is that done? From my phone with a cameraman? The talk would only make sense with me in front of the running machine itself, making noise. > > Craig > >> On Apr 5, 2022, at 1:41 PM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode wrote: >> >> I think this is very interesting. Id love to watch a flash talk on it. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On 5 Apr 2022, at 18:38, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> Heather. >>> >>> I probably am one of the oddest LC users. Entirely for either my own use or for my company. Only once did I sell a system commercially. >>> >>> But I do use LC to control three very different machines in our shop. Would it be of any interest to anyone to see one of these in operation? >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Craig Newman (dunbarx) >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Apr 5, 2022, at 12:54 PM, Heather Laine via use-livecode wrote: >>>> >>>> Dear Good Folks of the Use-list, >>>> >>>> I'm in the final throes of scheduling our upcoming online conference on 25-27th April. Its looking great! Multiple fabulous talks have come in, there is loads of rich content, we have panels, keynotes and workshops galore! We're just missing 3 flashtalks to round out the Flash Talks section on Day 3. I know at least 3 of you good people can speak for a mere 7 minutes on your topic of choice. Roll up roll up... and send me a talk submission :) Pretty please? >>>> >>>> https://livecode.com/global/apply-to-speak/ >>>> >>>> It's going to be a great event. >>>> >>>> Warmest Regards to all, >>>> >>>> Heather >>>> >>>> P.S. Where is the conference schedule to be seen, I hear you ask? Right here: >>>> >>>> https://livecode.com/global/schedule/ >>>> >>>> Heather Laine >>>> Customer Services Manager and Conference Organizer Extraordinaire >>>> LiveCode Ltd >>>> www.livecode.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ahsoftware at sonic.net Tue Apr 5 16:36:30 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 13:36:30 -0700 Subject: Flash Talks - 3 slots remaining In-Reply-To: <33668918-E35F-4F67-80C1-9C2FF56678B8@starfirelighting.com> References: <33668918-E35F-4F67-80C1-9C2FF56678B8@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: On 4/5/22 10:36, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: > > But I do use LC to control three very different machines in our shop. Would it be of any interest to anyone to see one of these in operation? Add me to the list of interested folks. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From tom at makeshyft.com Tue Apr 5 17:05:51 2022 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 17:05:51 -0400 Subject: Flash Talks - 3 slots remaining In-Reply-To: References: <33668918-E35F-4F67-80C1-9C2FF56678B8@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: Cool I'd watch your talk Craig. On Tue, Apr 5, 2022 at 4:37 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 4/5/22 10:36, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: > > > > > But I do use LC to control three very different machines in our shop. > Would it be of any interest to anyone to see one of these in operation? > > Add me to the list of interested folks. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From craig at starfirelighting.com Tue Apr 5 17:25:05 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 17:25:05 -0400 Subject: Flash Talks - 3 slots remaining In-Reply-To: References: <33668918-E35F-4F67-80C1-9C2FF56678B8@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: <0FAF3A38-0400-402A-9E63-9CD93EDF4DFC@starfirelighting.com> I suppose I could set up a Zoom session, and get some sucker, I mean, helper to video me. But much of the underlying power behind each of my machines is based on a small I/O hardware gadget that has no particular relevance to LC per se, apart from a software framework that supports it. The front end is a LC stack, running in the IDE, a control panel that reads and writes to the gadget. The gadget reads the state of things like switches and controls things like motors. Perhaps this might suggest to some that a hardware project could be assembled using Raspberry Pi or Arduino or even a PIC, since my particular hardware gadget is no longer supported. Anyway, for a minute or two it probably will look pretty cool, and the machine I have in mind is nothing if not noisy. Craig > On Apr 5, 2022, at 5:05 PM, Tom Glod via use-livecode wrote: > > Cool I'd watch your talk Craig. > > On Tue, Apr 5, 2022 at 4:37 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> On 4/5/22 10:36, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: >> >>> >>> But I do use LC to control three very different machines in our shop. >> Would it be of any interest to anyone to see one of these in operation? >> >> Add me to the list of interested folks. >> >> -- >> Mark Wieder >> ahsoftware at gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Tue Apr 5 17:28:50 2022 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 17:28:50 -0400 Subject: Flash Talks - 3 slots remaining In-Reply-To: <33668918-E35F-4F67-80C1-9C2FF56678B8@starfirelighting.com> References: <33668918-E35F-4F67-80C1-9C2FF56678B8@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: <005e01d84934$27b0e0e0$7712a2a0$@net> Go for it. Get a headset and use a tablet. This is cool. Not as cool as a "pancake printer" but cool none the less. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Craig Newman via use-livecode Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2022 1:36 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Craig Newman Subject: Re: Flash Talks - 3 slots remaining Heather. I probably am one of the oddest LC users. Entirely for either my own use or for my company. Only once did I sell a system commercially. But I do use LC to control three very different machines in our shop. Would it be of any interest to anyone to see one of these in operation? Regards, Craig Newman (dunbarx) > On Apr 5, 2022, at 12:54 PM, Heather Laine via use-livecode wrote: > > Dear Good Folks of the Use-list, > > I'm in the final throes of scheduling our upcoming online conference on 25-27th April. Its looking great! Multiple fabulous talks have come in, there is loads of rich content, we have panels, keynotes and workshops galore! We're just missing 3 flashtalks to round out the Flash Talks section on Day 3. I know at least 3 of you good people can speak for a mere 7 minutes on your topic of choice. Roll up roll up... and send me a talk submission :) Pretty please? > > https://livecode.com/global/apply-to-speak/ > > > It's going to be a great event. > > Warmest Regards to all, > > Heather > > P.S. Where is the conference schedule to be seen, I hear you ask? Right here: > > https://livecode.com/global/schedule/ > > Heather Laine > Customer Services Manager and Conference Organizer Extraordinaire > LiveCode Ltd www.livecode.com > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Apr 5 17:27:10 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 21:27:10 +0000 Subject: Flash Talks - 3 slots remaining In-Reply-To: References: <33668918-E35F-4F67-80C1-9C2FF56678B8@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: I'm in. Bob S > On Apr 5, 2022, at 13:36 , Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > > On 4/5/22 10:36, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: > >> But I do use LC to control three very different machines in our shop. Would it be of any interest to anyone to see one of these in operation? > > Add me to the list of interested folks. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ahsoftware at sonic.net Tue Apr 5 18:23:13 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 15:23:13 -0700 Subject: Flash Talks - 3 slots remaining In-Reply-To: <0FAF3A38-0400-402A-9E63-9CD93EDF4DFC@starfirelighting.com> References: <33668918-E35F-4F67-80C1-9C2FF56678B8@starfirelighting.com> <0FAF3A38-0400-402A-9E63-9CD93EDF4DFC@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: <1344d337-0a55-be93-fa6e-be9a14b172fb@sonic.net> On 4/5/22 14:25, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: > But much of the underlying power behind each of my machines is based on a small I/O hardware gadget that has no particular relevance to LC per se, apart from a software framework that supports it. > > The front end is a LC stack, running in the IDE, a control panel that reads and writes to the gadget. The gadget reads the state of things like switches and controls things like motors. Perhaps this might suggest to some that a hardware project could be assembled using Raspberry Pi or Arduino or even a PIC, since my particular hardware gadget is no longer supported. All right - now I'm hooked. Looking forward to you talking about the LC interface to the real world. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ahsoftware at sonic.net Tue Apr 5 18:25:22 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 15:25:22 -0700 Subject: Flash Talks - 3 slots remaining In-Reply-To: <005e01d84934$27b0e0e0$7712a2a0$@net> References: <33668918-E35F-4F67-80C1-9C2FF56678B8@starfirelighting.com> <005e01d84934$27b0e0e0$7712a2a0$@net> Message-ID: <1010cf75-e8c1-4a15-e285-be3c896e545f@sonic.net> On 4/5/22 14:28, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote: > Go for it. Get a headset and use a tablet. This is cool. Not as cool as a > "pancake printer" but cool none the less. Oooo... they had one of those pancake printers set up at the Maker Faire a few years ago. Takes a bit of time, but... fancy pancakes. *Almost* hated to eat mine. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Tue Apr 5 20:28:10 2022 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 20:28:10 -0400 Subject: Flash Talks - 3 slots remaining In-Reply-To: <1344d337-0a55-be93-fa6e-be9a14b172fb@sonic.net> References: <33668918-E35F-4F67-80C1-9C2FF56678B8@starfirelighting.com> <0FAF3A38-0400-402A-9E63-9CD93EDF4DFC@starfirelighting.com> <1344d337-0a55-be93-fa6e-be9a14b172fb@sonic.net> Message-ID: <006401d8494d$34c031f0$9e4095d0$@net> Me too. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net All right - now I'm hooked. Looking forward to you talking about the LC interface to the real world. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Wed Apr 6 08:03:53 2022 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 22:03:53 +1000 Subject: Widget properties Message-ID: <30167ED7-D04B-4164-A99D-1AC5EB2A68E3@optusnet.com.au> Is it not a bug that the properties of widget “foo” returns empty (for all values of foo)? No rect, no visible, no disabled etc, even though these clearly are settable and functional properties of the widget. You can export widget “foo” to array “bar” but that gives the intrinsic properties of the widget not the usual object properties. Oh and don’t forget the reserved word “array” in the above line, that causes an IDE crash (bug 23655 confirmed) Neville From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Apr 6 08:36:27 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 14:36:27 +0200 Subject: Widget properties In-Reply-To: <30167ED7-D04B-4164-A99D-1AC5EB2A68E3@optusnet.com.au> References: <30167ED7-D04B-4164-A99D-1AC5EB2A68E3@optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <827117BD-FB31-4DBD-8963-B7F7E09A6427@m-r-d.de> That is not available according to this post from Ali Lloyd https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?t=27183#p141945 > Am 06.04.2022 um 14:03 schrieb Neville Smythe via use-livecode : > > Is it not a bug that > > the properties of widget “foo” > > returns empty (for all values of foo)? > > No rect, no visible, no disabled etc, even though these clearly are settable and functional properties of the widget. > > You can > > export widget “foo” to array “bar” > > but that gives the intrinsic properties of the widget not the usual object properties. Oh and don’t forget the reserved word “array” in the above line, that causes an IDE crash (bug 23655 confirmed) > > Neville > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Apr 6 08:37:26 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 14:37:26 +0200 Subject: Widget properties In-Reply-To: <827117BD-FB31-4DBD-8963-B7F7E09A6427@m-r-d.de> References: <30167ED7-D04B-4164-A99D-1AC5EB2A68E3@optusnet.com.au> <827117BD-FB31-4DBD-8963-B7F7E09A6427@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: Forgot to mention that his post also has a solution to fetch the list of all available properties for a widget. > Am 06.04.2022 um 14:36 schrieb matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de: > > That is not available according to this post from Ali Lloyd > > https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?t=27183#p141945 > > >> Am 06.04.2022 um 14:03 schrieb Neville Smythe via use-livecode >: >> >> Is it not a bug that >> >> the properties of widget “foo” >> >> returns empty (for all values of foo)? >> >> No rect, no visible, no disabled etc, even though these clearly are settable and functional properties of the widget. >> >> You can >> >> export widget “foo” to array “bar” >> >> but that gives the intrinsic properties of the widget not the usual object properties. Oh and don’t forget the reserved word “array” in the above line, that causes an IDE crash (bug 23655 > confirmed) >> >> Neville >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From craig at starfirelighting.com Wed Apr 6 09:12:03 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 09:12:03 -0400 Subject: Flash Talks - 3 slots remaining In-Reply-To: <006401d8494d$34c031f0$9e4095d0$@net> References: <33668918-E35F-4F67-80C1-9C2FF56678B8@starfirelighting.com> <0FAF3A38-0400-402A-9E63-9CD93EDF4DFC@starfirelighting.com> <1344d337-0a55-be93-fa6e-be9a14b172fb@sonic.net> <006401d8494d$34c031f0$9e4095d0$@net> Message-ID: So is this a video that I make beforehand and upload somewhere, or is it usually meant to be a live show? Craig > On Apr 5, 2022, at 8:28 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote: > > Me too. > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > > All right - now I'm hooked. > Looking forward to you talking about the LC interface to the real world. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From alex at tweedly.net Wed Apr 6 09:22:06 2022 From: alex at tweedly.net (Tweedly) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 14:22:06 +0100 Subject: Widget properties In-Reply-To: <827117BD-FB31-4DBD-8963-B7F7E09A6427@m-r-d.de> References: <827117BD-FB31-4DBD-8963-B7F7E09A6427@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <32B7BC63-B306-4B17-B104-3A0ACCAF5974@tweedly.net> That post from Ali says they are not available; it doesn’t say they should be not available. I’d say they should be - Ali’s workaround is good for the IDE only. So no reason not to submit as a bug/request, and get a proper determination from LCLtd. Alex Sent from my iPad > On 6 Apr 2022, at 13:37, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > > That is not available according to this post from Ali Lloyd > > https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?t=27183#p141945 > > >> Am 06.04.2022 um 14:03 schrieb Neville Smythe via use-livecode : >> >> Is it not a bug that >> >> the properties of widget “foo” >> >> returns empty (for all values of foo)? >> >> No rect, no visible, no disabled etc, even though these clearly are settable and functional properties of the widget. >> >> You can >> >> export widget “foo” to array “bar” >> >> but that gives the intrinsic properties of the widget not the usual object properties. Oh and don’t forget the reserved word “array” in the above line, that causes an IDE crash (bug 23655 confirmed) >> >> Neville >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From klaus at major-k.de Wed Apr 6 09:23:16 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 15:23:16 +0200 Subject: drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) always BLACK Message-ID: <1C2D1B7B-6ECE-44AE-8443-01AF60542A58@major-k.de> Hi all, drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) is really great, but the resulting images are always black. I can of course add a "color overlay" but when I use them as "imagesource" it uses the original black images. Any hints on how to add color to them when using them as "imagesource" in a field without screenshotting them or exporting them, add color in an image editing app and reimport them as images? Thanks for any hint! Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Apr 6 09:30:16 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 15:30:16 +0200 Subject: Widget properties In-Reply-To: <32B7BC63-B306-4B17-B104-3A0ACCAF5974@tweedly.net> References: <827117BD-FB31-4DBD-8963-B7F7E09A6427@m-r-d.de> <32B7BC63-B306-4B17-B104-3A0ACCAF5974@tweedly.net> Message-ID: Maybe. But the last 6 years no one filed a bug report, even Ali did not. So i doubt, that it will be fixed in the near future even with a bug report. Anyway, without a bug report there is definitely no chance that it will be ever fixed. > Am 06.04.2022 um 15:22 schrieb Tweedly via use-livecode : > > That post from Ali says they are not available; it doesn’t say they should be not available. > > I’d say they should be - Ali’s workaround is good for the IDE only. > > So no reason not to submit as a bug/request, and get a proper determination from LCLtd. > > Alex > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 6 Apr 2022, at 13:37, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: >> >> That is not available according to this post from Ali Lloyd >> >> https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?t=27183#p141945 >> >> >>> Am 06.04.2022 um 14:03 schrieb Neville Smythe via use-livecode : >>> >>> Is it not a bug that >>> >>> the properties of widget “foo” >>> >>> returns empty (for all values of foo)? >>> >>> No rect, no visible, no disabled etc, even though these clearly are settable and functional properties of the widget. >>> >>> You can >>> >>> export widget “foo” to array “bar” >>> >>> but that gives the intrinsic properties of the widget not the usual object properties. Oh and don’t forget the reserved word “array” in the above line, that causes an IDE crash (bug 23655 confirmed) >>> >>> Neville >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From tore.nilsen at me.com Wed Apr 6 09:30:36 2022 From: tore.nilsen at me.com (Tore Nilsen) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 15:30:36 +0200 Subject: Flash Talks - 3 slots remaining In-Reply-To: References: <33668918-E35F-4F67-80C1-9C2FF56678B8@starfirelighting.com> <0FAF3A38-0400-402A-9E63-9CD93EDF4DFC@starfirelighting.com> <1344d337-0a55-be93-fa6e-be9a14b172fb@sonic.net> <006401d8494d$34c031f0$9e4095d0$@net> Message-ID: Very often you will make the presentation beforehand and make yourself available to answer any questions at the time of presentation. I guess Heather will guide you through the process. Best regards Tore Nilsen > 6. apr. 2022 kl. 15:12 skrev Craig Newman via use-livecode : > > So is this a video that I make beforehand and upload somewhere, or is it usually meant to be a live show? > > Craig From klaus at major-k.de Wed Apr 6 09:35:08 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 15:35:08 +0200 Subject: drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) always BLACK In-Reply-To: <1C2D1B7B-6ECE-44AE-8443-01AF60542A58@major-k.de> References: <1C2D1B7B-6ECE-44AE-8443-01AF60542A58@major-k.de> Message-ID: <6A41765B-B800-4FA6-8F64-A9A969D0B7B1@major-k.de> Just made a test and it looks like the resulting images from drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) cannot even be screenshot-ted!? Results in a greyish rectangle? WTF? Tried as PNG and JPEG. see screenshot here: > Am 06.04.2022 um 15:23 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode : > > Hi all, > > drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) is really great, > but the resulting images are always black. > > I can of course add a "color overlay" but when I use them as > "imagesource" it uses the original black images. > > Any hints on how to add color to them when using them > as "imagesource" in a field without screenshotting them or > exporting them, add color in an image editing app and > reimport them as images? > > Thanks for any hint! -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From klaus at major-k.de Wed Apr 6 09:42:33 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 15:42:33 +0200 Subject: drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) always BLACK In-Reply-To: <6A41765B-B800-4FA6-8F64-A9A969D0B7B1@major-k.de> References: <1C2D1B7B-6ECE-44AE-8443-01AF60542A58@major-k.de> <6A41765B-B800-4FA6-8F64-A9A969D0B7B1@major-k.de> Message-ID: <0586315F-E6FA-4B78-AEA4-ED0A391AA2B7@major-k.de> Bug reported it: > Am 06.04.2022 um 15:35 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode : > > Just made a test and it looks like the resulting images from > drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) cannot even be screenshot-ted!? > Results in a greyish rectangle? WTF? > > Tried as PNG and JPEG. > > see screenshot here: > -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From sean at pidigital.co.uk Wed Apr 6 10:04:31 2022 From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Sean Cole) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 15:04:31 +0100 Subject: Widget properties In-Reply-To: References: <827117BD-FB31-4DBD-8963-B7F7E09A6427@m-r-d.de> <32B7BC63-B306-4B17-B104-3A0ACCAF5974@tweedly.net> Message-ID: I would suggest filing a report and get the ball rolling. If you reference in the post by Ali and your other workarounds it will at least be useful to some and at best provide information that leads to a fix. On Wed, 6 Apr 2022 at 14:30, matthias rebbe via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Maybe. > > But the last 6 years no one filed a bug report, even Ali did not. So i > doubt, that it will be fixed in the near future even with a bug report. > Anyway, without a bug report there is definitely no chance that it will be > ever fixed. > > > > Am 06.04.2022 um 15:22 schrieb Tweedly via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: > > > > That post from Ali says they are not available; it doesn’t say they > should be not available. > > > > I’d say they should be - Ali’s workaround is good for the IDE only. > > > > So no reason not to submit as a bug/request, and get a proper > determination from LCLtd. > > > > Alex > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > >> On 6 Apr 2022, at 13:37, matthias rebbe via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> > >> That is not available according to this post from Ali Lloyd > >> > >> https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?t=27183#p141945 < > https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?t=27183#p141945> > >> > >> > >>> Am 06.04.2022 um 14:03 schrieb Neville Smythe via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: > >>> > >>> Is it not a bug that > >>> > >>> the properties of widget “foo” > >>> > >>> returns empty (for all values of foo)? > >>> > >>> No rect, no visible, no disabled etc, even though these clearly are > settable and functional properties of the widget. > >>> > >>> You can > >>> > >>> export widget “foo” to array “bar” > >>> > >>> but that gives the intrinsic properties of the widget not the usual > object properties. Oh and don’t forget the reserved word “array” in the > above line, that causes an IDE crash (bug 23655 < > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23655> confirmed) > >>> > >>> Neville > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> use-livecode mailing list > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Apr 6 10:55:44 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 14:55:44 +0000 Subject: drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) always BLACK In-Reply-To: <1C2D1B7B-6ECE-44AE-8443-01AF60542A58@major-k.de> References: <1C2D1B7B-6ECE-44AE-8443-01AF60542A58@major-k.de> Message-ID: <63B26CED-E6AB-4520-B532-06E74EB5F6B0@iotecdigital.com> Sounds a little like the old bug where a PNG would draw as black if it had an Alpha channel. Bob S > On Apr 6, 2022, at 06:23 , Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi all, > > drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) is really great, > but the resulting images are always black. > > I can of course add a "color overlay" but when I use them as > "imagesource" it uses the original black images. > > Any hints on how to add color to them when using them > as "imagesource" in a field without screenshotting them or > exporting them, add color in an image editing app and > reimport them as images? > > Thanks for any hint! > > > Best > > Klaus > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > https://www.major-k.de/bass > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Apr 6 11:59:52 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2022 10:59:52 -0500 Subject: drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) always BLACK In-Reply-To: <6A41765B-B800-4FA6-8F64-A9A969D0B7B1@major-k.de> References: <1C2D1B7B-6ECE-44AE-8443-01AF60542A58@major-k.de> <6A41765B-B800-4FA6-8F64-A9A969D0B7B1@major-k.de> Message-ID: <17fff9a88c0.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> The IDE supports importing SVG images from the Import As Control menu. Does that work any differently? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On April 6, 2022 8:36:29 AM Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > Just made a test and it looks like the resulting images from > drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) cannot even be screenshot-ted!? > Results in a greyish rectangle? WTF? > > Tried as PNG and JPEG. > > see screenshot here: > > >> Am 06.04.2022 um 15:23 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode >> : >> >> Hi all, >> >> drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) is really great, >> but the resulting images are always black. >> >> I can of course add a "color overlay" but when I use them as >> "imagesource" it uses the original black images. >> >> Any hints on how to add color to them when using them >> as "imagesource" in a field without screenshotting them or >> exporting them, add color in an image editing app and >> reimport them as images? >> >> Thanks for any hint! > > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > https://www.major-k.de/bass > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From klaus at major-k.de Wed Apr 6 12:10:23 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 18:10:23 +0200 Subject: drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) always BLACK In-Reply-To: <17fff9a88c0.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <1C2D1B7B-6ECE-44AE-8443-01AF60542A58@major-k.de> <6A41765B-B800-4FA6-8F64-A9A969D0B7B1@major-k.de> <17fff9a88c0.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <7778D0F7-FDB0-4512-BFE6-561AE3B3E455@major-k.de> Hi Jaques, > Am 06.04.2022 um 17:59 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode : > > The IDE supports importing SVG images from the Import As Control menu. Does that work any differently? not tested (yet). > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > On April 6, 2022 8:36:29 AM Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > >> Just made a test and it looks like the resulting images from >> drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) cannot even be screenshot-ted!? >> Results in a greyish rectangle? WTF? >> >> Tried as PNG and JPEG. >> >> see screenshot here: >> >> >>> Am 06.04.2022 um 15:23 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode : >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) is really great, >>> but the resulting images are always black. >>> >>> I can of course add a "color overlay" but when I use them as >>> "imagesource" it uses the original black images. >>> >>> Any hints on how to add color to them when using them >>> as "imagesource" in a field without screenshotting them or >>> exporting them, add color in an image editing app and >>> reimport them as images? >>> >>> Thanks for any hint! Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From klaus at major-k.de Wed Apr 6 12:13:26 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 18:13:26 +0200 Subject: drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) always BLACK In-Reply-To: <7778D0F7-FDB0-4512-BFE6-561AE3B3E455@major-k.de> References: <1C2D1B7B-6ECE-44AE-8443-01AF60542A58@major-k.de> <6A41765B-B800-4FA6-8F64-A9A969D0B7B1@major-k.de> <17fff9a88c0.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <7778D0F7-FDB0-4512-BFE6-561AE3B3E455@major-k.de> Message-ID: > Am 06.04.2022 um 18:10 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode : > > Hi Jaques, > >> Am 06.04.2022 um 17:59 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode : >> >> The IDE supports importing SVG images from the Import As Control menu. Does that work any differently? > > not tested (yet). just tested and THAT works!? > >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> On April 6, 2022 8:36:29 AM Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >> >>> Just made a test and it looks like the resulting images from >>> drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) cannot even be screenshot-ted!? >>> Results in a greyish rectangle? WTF? >>> >>> Tried as PNG and JPEG. >>> >>> see screenshot here: >>> >>> >>>> Am 06.04.2022 um 15:23 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode : >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) is really great, >>>> but the resulting images are always black. >>>> >>>> I can of course add a "color overlay" but when I use them as >>>> "imagesource" it uses the original black images. >>>> >>>> Any hints on how to add color to them when using them >>>> as "imagesource" in a field without screenshotting them or >>>> exporting them, add color in an image editing app and >>>> reimport them as images? >>>> >>>> Thanks for any hint! > > Best > > Klaus > > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > https://www.major-k.de/bass > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From klaus at major-k.de Wed Apr 6 13:16:40 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 19:16:40 +0200 Subject: drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) always BLACK In-Reply-To: References: <1C2D1B7B-6ECE-44AE-8443-01AF60542A58@major-k.de> <6A41765B-B800-4FA6-8F64-A9A969D0B7B1@major-k.de> <17fff9a88c0.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <7778D0F7-FDB0-4512-BFE6-561AE3B3E455@major-k.de> Message-ID: <32247ECF-1AD1-4CBC-9FE5-2F81DFC8C62F@major-k.de> Hi all, so sorry, looks like I completely f..... up here. Sorry for the confusion, not may day... See: Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From mark at livecode.com Wed Apr 6 13:28:00 2022 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2022 18:28:00 +0100 Subject: drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) always BLACK In-Reply-To: <32247ECF-1AD1-4CBC-9FE5-2F81DFC8C62F@major-k.de> References: <1C2D1B7B-6ECE-44AE-8443-01AF60542A58@major-k.de> <6A41765B-B800-4FA6-8F64-A9A969D0B7B1@major-k.de> <17fff9a88c0.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <7778D0F7-FDB0-4512-BFE6-561AE3B3E455@major-k.de> <32247ECF-1AD1-4CBC-9FE5-2F81DFC8C62F@major-k.de> Message-ID: On 2022-04-06 18:16, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > Hi all, > > so sorry, looks like I completely f..... up here. > Sorry for the confusion, not may day... > > See: > Hehe - no worries. So in answer to your original query about wanting to be able to color the icons - the drawing library supports the 'currentColor' attribute in SVG - and this is tied to the 'backgroundColor' property of the image object the drawing is set on. It would only take a small tweak to Brian's extension to make this work - adding `fill="currentColor"` to the path node it generates. Brian's extension works by fetching the path data from the IconSVG library, wrapping it in the necessary SVG XML, and then compiling it with drawingSvgCompile. Irksomely, there does not seem to be any support for marking colors in SVGs as 'currentColor' in any SVG editor we've come across (unless its deeply buried in it). So one strategy there is making sure the colors you want to be configurable in the SVG are set to a known unlikely random color (e.g. #ABCDEF), exporting as SVG XML from the editor and then just doing a global find/replace of (e.g.) #ABCDEF with currentColor. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Apr 6 14:48:23 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 13:48:23 -0500 Subject: drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) always BLACK In-Reply-To: References: <1C2D1B7B-6ECE-44AE-8443-01AF60542A58@major-k.de> <6A41765B-B800-4FA6-8F64-A9A969D0B7B1@major-k.de> <17fff9a88c0.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <7778D0F7-FDB0-4512-BFE6-561AE3B3E455@major-k.de> Message-ID: <105a0f49-0bc1-270c-3f8a-07edb1d6136b@hyperactivesw.com> On 4/6/22 11:13 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >>> Am 06.04.2022 um 17:59 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode: >>> >>> The IDE supports importing SVG images from the Import As Control menu. Does that work any differently? >> not tested (yet). > just tested and THAT works!? There must be more to it than just running drawingSvgCompileIcon, but I can't recall what it is. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From klaus at major-k.de Wed Apr 6 14:51:16 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 20:51:16 +0200 Subject: drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) always BLACK In-Reply-To: <105a0f49-0bc1-270c-3f8a-07edb1d6136b@hyperactivesw.com> References: <1C2D1B7B-6ECE-44AE-8443-01AF60542A58@major-k.de> <6A41765B-B800-4FA6-8F64-A9A969D0B7B1@major-k.de> <17fff9a88c0.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <7778D0F7-FDB0-4512-BFE6-561AE3B3E455@major-k.de> <105a0f49-0bc1-270c-3f8a-07edb1d6136b@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <3C7BF3C7-878D-4F3D-AB8B-CC782E8F7988@major-k.de> Hi Jaques, > Am 06.04.2022 um 20:48 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode : > > On 4/6/22 11:13 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >>>> Am 06.04.2022 um 17:59 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode: >>>> The IDE supports importing SVG images from the Import As Control menu. Does that work any differently? >>> not tested (yet). >> just tested and THAT works!? > There must be more to it than just running drawingSvgCompileIcon, but I can't recall what it is. it was only my fault, I was using wrong syntax! Everything works fine now. > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From brian at milby7.com Wed Apr 6 15:18:09 2022 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 15:18:09 -0400 Subject: drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) always BLACK In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <91CD3240-9439-4877-81AD-9F1B83E0F718@milby7.com> I guess I need to make an update to this library :) Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 6, 2022, at 1:28 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > > On 2022-04-06 18:16, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >> Hi all, >> so sorry, looks like I completely f..... up here. >> Sorry for the confusion, not may day... >> See: >> > > Hehe - no worries. > > So in answer to your original query about wanting to be able to color the icons - the drawing library supports the 'currentColor' attribute in SVG - and this is tied to the 'backgroundColor' property of the image object the drawing is set on. > > It would only take a small tweak to Brian's extension to make this work - adding `fill="currentColor"` to the path node it generates. > > Brian's extension works by fetching the path data from the IconSVG library, wrapping it in the necessary SVG XML, and then compiling it with drawingSvgCompile. > > Irksomely, there does not seem to be any support for marking colors in SVGs as 'currentColor' in any SVG editor we've come across (unless its deeply buried in it). So one strategy there is making sure the colors you want to be configurable in the SVG are set to a known unlikely random color (e.g. #ABCDEF), exporting as SVG XML from the editor and then just doing a global find/replace of (e.g.) #ABCDEF with currentColor. > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > > -- > Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Everyone can create apps > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From klaus at major-k.de Wed Apr 6 15:19:54 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 21:19:54 +0200 Subject: drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) always BLACK In-Reply-To: <91CD3240-9439-4877-81AD-9F1B83E0F718@milby7.com> References: <91CD3240-9439-4877-81AD-9F1B83E0F718@milby7.com> Message-ID: <8B45151C-1CBB-46D8-878D-141CFD47E99D@major-k.de> Hi Brian, > Am 06.04.2022 um 21:18 schrieb Brian Milby via use-livecode : > > I guess I need to make an update to this library :) yo, that would be cool! :-) > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Apr 6, 2022, at 1:28 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: >> >> On 2022-04-06 18:16, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> so sorry, looks like I completely f..... up here. >>> Sorry for the confusion, not may day... >>> See: >>> >> >> Hehe - no worries. >> >> So in answer to your original query about wanting to be able to color the icons - the drawing library supports the 'currentColor' attribute in SVG - and this is tied to the 'backgroundColor' property of the image object the drawing is set on. >> >> It would only take a small tweak to Brian's extension to make this work - adding `fill="currentColor"` to the path node it generates. >> >> Brian's extension works by fetching the path data from the IconSVG library, wrapping it in the necessary SVG XML, and then compiling it with drawingSvgCompile. >> >> Irksomely, there does not seem to be any support for marking colors in SVGs as 'currentColor' in any SVG editor we've come across (unless its deeply buried in it). So one strategy there is making sure the colors you want to be configurable in the SVG are set to a known unlikely random color (e.g. #ABCDEF), exporting as SVG XML from the editor and then just doing a global find/replace of (e.g.) #ABCDEF with currentColor. >> >> Warmest Regards, >> >> Mark. Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From monte at appisle.net Wed Apr 6 18:44:53 2022 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2022 08:44:53 +1000 Subject: Widget properties In-Reply-To: <30167ED7-D04B-4164-A99D-1AC5EB2A68E3@optusnet.com.au> References: <30167ED7-D04B-4164-A99D-1AC5EB2A68E3@optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: I suspect this will be classed as not a bug as there has never been any intention of supporting the properties for widgets as far as I’m aware but it might be worth submitting it anyway and detailing your use case. I think if you look at the old lcVCS discussions on the forums from before my time on the LC team Mark implemented import/export widget in response to my needs there. The properties is really not that worthwhile for widgets as it would only ever support the common object properties like visible, rect etc. Thinking back when I did a PR for the properties soon after LC went open source it should have been deprecated instead of accepting it. I wouldn’t have understood that was the best thing to do at the time though. It really would be better to add all the other object types to the import/export commands. One reason I think it would be good for you to submit a bug report is it could be changed to a docs bug and resolved by deprecating the properties, adding a note about the lack of widget support and the import/export command that can be used there and perhaps opening a feature request to support other objects in import/export. Cheers Monte > On 6 Apr 2022, at 10:03 pm, Neville Smythe via use-livecode wrote: > > Is it not a bug that > > the properties of widget “foo” > > returns empty (for all values of foo)? > > No rect, no visible, no disabled etc, even though these clearly are settable and functional properties of the widget. > > You can > > export widget “foo” to array “bar” > > but that gives the intrinsic properties of the widget not the usual object properties. Oh and don’t forget the reserved word “array” in the above line, that causes an IDE crash (bug 23655 confirmed) > > Neville > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Apr 6 19:39:03 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 16:39:03 -0700 Subject: Widget properties In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <732f0c05-d2b8-2f2f-2817-13127f2cacf7@fourthworld.com> Monte Goulding wrote: > ...there has never been any intention of supporting the properties > for widgets as far as Im aware... If the company wants widgets to be seen as first-class citizens, a little more conformity with existing object syntax would go a long way to making that happen. It's possible for the engine to derive a set of widget properties. If it's not also possible to map that into how "the properties" works that would be very enlightening. FWIW I've had requests to update my 4W Property Sheet tool to special-case for widgets. I tell people I'll take widgets seriously when the company does, and if they do I won't need to update my tool because the existing call to "the properties" that works for everything else will work for widgets. Maybe I've been overestimating the importance of widgets to LC Ltd. Guidance welcome. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Apr 6 19:50:37 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 23:50:37 +0000 Subject: Widget properties In-Reply-To: <732f0c05-d2b8-2f2f-2817-13127f2cacf7@fourthworld.com> References: <732f0c05-d2b8-2f2f-2817-13127f2cacf7@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <7061CA57-88C1-44FC-8186-2F77079F52DC@iotecdigital.com> Poor Widget. The bastard child of Livecode objects. ;-P Bob S > On Apr 6, 2022, at 16:39 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > Monte Goulding wrote: > > > ...there has never been any intention of supporting the properties > > for widgets as far as I’m aware... > > If the company wants widgets to be seen as first-class citizens, a little more conformity with existing object syntax would go a long way to making that happen. > > It's possible for the engine to derive a set of widget properties. If it's not also possible to map that into how "the properties" works that would be very enlightening. > > > FWIW I've had requests to update my 4W Property Sheet tool to special-case for widgets. I tell people I'll take widgets seriously when the company does, and if they do I won't need to update my tool because the existing call to "the properties" that works for everything else will work for widgets. > > Maybe I've been overestimating the importance of widgets to LC Ltd. Guidance welcome. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Wed Apr 6 20:38:50 2022 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2022 10:38:50 +1000 Subject: widget properties In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have submitted the bug report (Bug 23670 ) As others have said, it is not likely this will be considered a high priority bug but it should be on the record. Interestingly eg setting tbar[“textcolor”] to a value and then set the properties of widget “foo" to tbar does work (although the properties are still reported as empty). Many thanks for the reference to Ali’s forum article, which is very helpful. I came across this problem because I am adding listing of all object properties to my nsScriptdatabase utility. Thus in version 2 it will be possible to compare stacks in the database down to the complete saved state of the stack, and so (theoretically) reconstruct the stack. Ali’s post prompts me to add listing the handlers of a widget which could be very useful information. I expect to upload version 2 within a few days. Neville From monte at appisle.net Wed Apr 6 20:50:06 2022 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2022 10:50:06 +1000 Subject: Widget properties In-Reply-To: <732f0c05-d2b8-2f2f-2817-13127f2cacf7@fourthworld.com> References: <732f0c05-d2b8-2f2f-2817-13127f2cacf7@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <3103BF5D-B881-47D4-99EE-8EF5536A4101@appisle.net> > On 7 Apr 2022, at 9:39 am, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > Monte Goulding wrote: > > > ...there has never been any intention of supporting the properties > > for widgets as far as I’m aware... > > If the company wants widgets to be seen as first-class citizens, a little more conformity with existing object syntax would go a long way to making that happen. > > It's possible for the engine to derive a set of widget properties. If it's not also possible to map that into how "the properties" works that would be very enlightening. > > > FWIW I've had requests to update my 4W Property Sheet tool to special-case for widgets. I tell people I'll take widgets seriously when the company does, and if they do I won't need to update my tool because the existing call to "the properties" that works for everything else will work for widgets. > > Maybe I've been overestimating the importance of widgets to LC Ltd. Guidance welcome. It seems a stretch to imply the lack of support for a property that has little to no use case outside the IDE means the company doesn’t take widgets seriously but I’m not going to argue with you about that. I will say there’s two main use cases for `the properties` and neither of them it serves very well: - Getting the properties of an object to apply to recreate the object elsewhere. export widget does a much better job of this and was designed specifically for that use case. In some variants of this use case the copy command is much simpler to use here too. - Introspecting what properties an object has in order to create an editor without maintaining your own lists of properties. It has never been good at this. It doesn’t tell you anything about acceptable values for those properties, it doesn’t tell you the importance of the property, it doesn’t tell you about alternative object properties that may be more useful to edit (text, styledText, htmlText, rtfText etc) or whether it’s potentially risky to present a UI that can edit it. Really this use case is served best by a well documented library that covers all objects. Currently you would need to dig the details out of the IDE scripts Cheers Monte From ahsoftware at sonic.net Wed Apr 6 20:58:09 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 17:58:09 -0700 Subject: Widget properties In-Reply-To: <732f0c05-d2b8-2f2f-2817-13127f2cacf7@fourthworld.com> References: <732f0c05-d2b8-2f2f-2817-13127f2cacf7@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <98ce8a88-3b22-169c-e694-3ae981a89454@sonic.net> On 4/6/22 16:39, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > ...there has never been any intention of supporting the properties > > for widgets as far as Im aware... > > If the company wants widgets to be seen as first-class citizens, a > little more conformity with existing object syntax would go a long way > to making that happen. Adding to that is the incoming LCS widget architecture, so I'm not putting deep learning time into something I'll just have to unlearn when the next wave hits. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Apr 6 21:25:58 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 18:25:58 -0700 Subject: Widget properties In-Reply-To: <3103BF5D-B881-47D4-99EE-8EF5536A4101@appisle.net> References: <3103BF5D-B881-47D4-99EE-8EF5536A4101@appisle.net> Message-ID: <486e33ef-40a9-3c79-b0b2-240773317a28@fourthworld.com> Monte Goulding wrote: > It seems a stretch to imply the lack of support for a property that > has little to no use case outside the IDE means the company doesnt > take widgets seriously but Im not going to argue with you about that. A reasonable choice, given that "seriously" is a colloquialism with no specific quantifiable meaning. Here I used it to try to elicit LC's vision for widgets. I had the (quite possibly mistaken) notion that widgets were a way to craft reusable controls that would look and feel like engine objects, but with the advantage that they could be created from a scripting language. We see many queries here about messages common to all other controls not working with widgets, and now and then we see queries about properties and functions too. "The properties" is just the latest of these, and your view of that here is helpful: > I will say theres two main use cases for `the properties` and neither > of them it serves very well: > > - Getting the properties of an object to apply to recreate the object > elsewhere. export widget does a much better job of this and was > designed specifically for that use case. Can you help me understand how it's better than "the properties", and why this superior method isn't used for engine controls? > - Introspecting what properties an object has in order to create an > editor without maintaining your own lists of properties. It has never > been good at this. It doesnt tell you anything about acceptable > values for those properties, it doesnt tell you the importance of > the property, it doesnt tell you about alternative object properties > that may be more useful to edit (text, styledText, htmlText, rtfText > etc) or whether its potentially risky to present a UI that can edit > it. Really this use case is served best by a well documented library > that covers all objects. Currently you would need to dig the details > out of the IDE scripts That seems to answer the first question, though while the metadata about types and options is useful for some things, it would still be useful to get just the name-value pairs as "the properties" does. That the company has such a narrowly specific view of the applicability of "the properties" is indeed helpful. Thank you for chiming in. I use "the properties" in a great many things, even outside the IDE tools, though those are about half of everything I've been doing as one of the few people outside the company working full-time with LC for as long as I have. Much of what I do is bespoke authoring systems, and frequently they're implemented as plugins. This is something I love about xTalks, and the SC/MC/LC philosophy that's driven the post-HC world. SC's Bill Appleton summed it up well when he once said: "HyperCard is a multimedia authoring system. SuperCard is a tool you can use to build multimedia authoring systems." For myself, and a good many others I know, the value of making tools is not limited to the IDE team, but a core value and key differentiator of choosing LiveCode. I have lot of ways to make software. But few of them let me redefine the workflow as flexibly as an xTalk. And no xTalk has been as flexible as LiveCode. It's like the difference between a drawing program and a scriptable drawing program, or between Wordpress and Drupal, or between a sculpture and modeling clay. I appreciate your team making an IDE, but for most of us who make our living with it it's only part of the toolset we use. On the more consumer-facing side which may better fit a view in which tooling is seen as for the engine team only, consider styling: When we set "the properties" of an object, it affects only the keys present, leaving everything else alone. This means we can make arrays with any subset of relevant attributes we want, and apply them almost like style sheets with just one line. We can even save these prop subsets to disk as LSON files if we like, so we can reuse them, mixing and matching from screen to screen and project to project as we like. In fact, using "the properties" has become such a habit across so much of what I do I have to admit that I need to think about it to list them all, in the way a fish struggles to define water. Arrays are a great foundational data type, and being able to express controls with them efficiently and uniformly is a godsend. From my perspective, perhaps no less limited than someone who works all day on the IDE but coming at it from a different angle, the question seems less interesting as "Why is this useful?" than "How could it not be?" Let me simplify the question: How hard would it be for the team to map the existing means of extracting widget properties to "the properties"? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Apr 6 21:36:12 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 18:36:12 -0700 Subject: Widget properties In-Reply-To: <98ce8a88-3b22-169c-e694-3ae981a89454@sonic.net> References: <98ce8a88-3b22-169c-e694-3ae981a89454@sonic.net> Message-ID: <9d7e4461-4d12-b30b-1402-2099cffaf577@fourthworld.com> Mark Wieder wrote: > On 4/6/22 16:39, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > >> > ...there has never been any intention of supporting the properties >> > for widgets as far as Im aware... >> >> If the company wants widgets to be seen as first-class citizens, a >> little more conformity with existing object syntax would go a long >> way to making that happen. > > > Adding to that is the incoming LCS widget architecture, so I'm not > putting deep learning time into something I'll just have to unlearn > when the next wave hits. Succinctly put. Back when Ben was fleshing out the "before" and "after" messaging options, and the object-local mirror of the selectGroupedControls property for groups, and other such things that have made the DataGrid such a joy to work with, I had high hopes that this effort to encapsulate compound objects durably would continue. I'm very excited by the choice to return to that effort. LCB is a fine language, and I'm as envious of its indexed arrays as I am mystified why they haven't found their way into LCS. But it's so easy to make compound objects in LCS I haven't been able to justify the time to learn a similar-but-incompatible language. So soon we will have three classes of objects: engine-native, widgets, and whatever the LCS-based widgets are called. It would be great to have a single robust, uniform serialization for their attributes. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Wed Apr 6 22:04:07 2022 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2022 12:04:07 +1000 Subject: widget properties In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5593C51B-2909-4290-B6C1-CEC6121513B0@optusnet.com.au> Just a point of clarification; Ali’s post does not explain how to access the object properties of a widget. The properties returned by put the keys of (revIDEExtensionProperties("com.livecode.widget.foo")) are the intrinsic properties of the widget, which these days are accessible via the export widget “foo” to array tBar command. They are not the ordinary object properties such as its rect, visibility etc. My current workaround is to just make up a list of likely properties names, for example those of a group, deleting the few properties obviously specific to a group. Unfortunately LC doesn’t respond with a “object does not have this property” error message if you query any old reserved property key for a widget. An alternative would be to go through the properties shown in the Property Inspector deleting the intrinsic properties specific to the widget; but some intrinsic properties are also common object properties, eg showBorder, depending on the widget you choose, and further I am not entirely sure that the Property Inspector actually exposes all the properties of an object (?). It also lists interdependent properties (loc <- rect) which should not be returned by the properties function. Neville From monte at appisle.net Wed Apr 6 22:06:37 2022 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2022 12:06:37 +1000 Subject: Widget properties In-Reply-To: <486e33ef-40a9-3c79-b0b2-240773317a28@fourthworld.com> References: <3103BF5D-B881-47D4-99EE-8EF5536A4101@appisle.net> <486e33ef-40a9-3c79-b0b2-240773317a28@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <5CE95C1C-0D42-48B1-88A4-42B92D9B877F@appisle.net> > On 7 Apr 2022, at 11:25 am, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > > I will say there’s two main use cases for `the properties` and neither > > of them it serves very well: > > > > - Getting the properties of an object to apply to recreate the object > > elsewhere. export widget does a much better job of this and was > > designed specifically for that use case. > > Can you help me understand how it's better than "the properties", and why this superior method isn't used for engine controls? > Because the array created by export and used by import contains the state of the widget as is saved when saving the stack. The content may or may not be the same as the property names exposed to user scripts but a widget created with that state should be the same as if it were saved in the stack and the stack re-opened. > > > - Introspecting what properties an object has in order to create an > > editor without maintaining your own lists of properties. It has never > > been good at this. It doesn’t tell you anything about acceptable > > values for those properties, it doesn’t tell you the importance of > > the property, it doesn’t tell you about alternative object properties > > that may be more useful to edit (text, styledText, htmlText, rtfText > > etc) or whether it’s potentially risky to present a UI that can edit > > it. Really this use case is served best by a well documented library > > that covers all objects. Currently you would need to dig the details > > out of the IDE scripts > > That seems to answer the first question, though while the metadata about types and options is useful for some things, it would still be useful to get just the name-value pairs as "the properties" does. > > That the company has such a narrowly specific view of the applicability of "the properties" is indeed helpful. Thank you for chiming in. I’m not the company. Mark may spend a lot more time pondering the utility of `the properties` than I do and indeed may have a different opinion. Indeed my opinion was much closer to yours is now when I sent in a PR for LC 6.1 all those years ago ;-) > Let me simplify the question: > > How hard would it be for the team to map the existing means of extracting widget properties to "the properties”? I don’t think it would be particularly tricky to iterate the exported property definitions to come up with a list of property names then turn that into a key/value array. Whether it would provide the utility you are looking for is a separate question. Cheers Monte From tom at makeshyft.com Wed Apr 6 23:01:14 2022 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 23:01:14 -0400 Subject: Widget properties In-Reply-To: <5CE95C1C-0D42-48B1-88A4-42B92D9B877F@appisle.net> References: <3103BF5D-B881-47D4-99EE-8EF5536A4101@appisle.net> <486e33ef-40a9-3c79-b0b2-240773317a28@fourthworld.com> <5CE95C1C-0D42-48B1-88A4-42B92D9B877F@appisle.net> Message-ID: At the conference I will announce a plugin, which will have the code read and write widget properties. The code for the plugin will be on github. I'm insanely busy at the moment, so I can't accelerate the release. No magic, just hardcoded property names. :) On Wed, Apr 6, 2022 at 10:08 PM Monte Goulding via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > On 7 Apr 2022, at 11:25 am, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > > I will say there’s two main use cases for `the properties` and neither > > > of them it serves very well: > > > > > > - Getting the properties of an object to apply to recreate the object > > > elsewhere. export widget does a much better job of this and was > > > designed specifically for that use case. > > > > Can you help me understand how it's better than "the properties", and > why this superior method isn't used for engine controls? > > > > Because the array created by export and used by import contains the state > of the widget as is saved when saving the stack. The content may or may not > be the same as the property names exposed to user scripts but a widget > created with that state should be the same as if it were saved in the stack > and the stack re-opened. > > > > > > - Introspecting what properties an object has in order to create an > > > editor without maintaining your own lists of properties. It has never > > > been good at this. It doesn’t tell you anything about acceptable > > > values for those properties, it doesn’t tell you the importance of > > > the property, it doesn’t tell you about alternative object properties > > > that may be more useful to edit (text, styledText, htmlText, rtfText > > > etc) or whether it’s potentially risky to present a UI that can edit > > > it. Really this use case is served best by a well documented library > > > that covers all objects. Currently you would need to dig the details > > > out of the IDE scripts > > > > That seems to answer the first question, though while the metadata about > types and options is useful for some things, it would still be useful to > get just the name-value pairs as "the properties" does. > > > > That the company has such a narrowly specific view of the applicability > of "the properties" is indeed helpful. Thank you for chiming in. > > I’m not the company. Mark may spend a lot more time pondering the utility > of `the properties` than I do and indeed may have a different opinion. > Indeed my opinion was much closer to yours is now when I sent in a PR for > LC 6.1 all those years ago ;-) > > > Let me simplify the question: > > > > How hard would it be for the team to map the existing means of > extracting widget properties to "the properties”? > > I don’t think it would be particularly tricky to iterate the exported > property definitions to come up with a list of property names then turn > that into a key/value array. Whether it would provide the utility you are > looking for is a separate question. > > Cheers > > Monte > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ahsoftware at sonic.net Thu Apr 7 01:15:48 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 22:15:48 -0700 Subject: widget properties In-Reply-To: <5593C51B-2909-4290-B6C1-CEC6121513B0@optusnet.com.au> References: <5593C51B-2909-4290-B6C1-CEC6121513B0@optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <96b8493d-60d0-a70c-2970-b5e694aba1d1@sonic.net> On 4/6/22 19:04, Neville Smythe via use-livecode wrote: > Unfortunately LC doesnt respond with a object does not have this property error message if you query any old reserved property key for a widget. It's actually even worse. The clock widget, for instance: The exported array contains special color options. These appear in the property inspector colors pane. You can set the backgroundColor. You can query the backgroundColor. But it doesn't appear in the property inspector colors pane. It also doesn't appear in the custom properties pane. It does maintain a reasonable value, but it doesn't do anything. But it *is* serializable. So does that qualify as a "property" of the widget? Seems like it might be useful as a way to store "secret" information: passwords, api keys, etc. that won't appear anywhere and you have to know about them to query for them in the first place. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Apr 7 02:24:53 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 23:24:53 -0700 Subject: Widget properties In-Reply-To: <5CE95C1C-0D42-48B1-88A4-42B92D9B877F@appisle.net> References: <5CE95C1C-0D42-48B1-88A4-42B92D9B877F@appisle.net> Message-ID: <3e8b82d3-fce9-3010-8cc2-0c489970804e@fourthworld.com> Thank you for your reply, Monte. Comments inline: Monte Goulding wrote: >> On 7 Apr 2022, at 11:25 am, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> Can you help me understand how it's better than "the properties", >> and why this superior method isn't used for engine controls? > > Because the array created by export and used by import contains > the state of the widget as is saved when saving the stack. The > content may or may not be the same as the property names exposed > to user scripts but a widget created with that state should be > the same as if it were saved in the stack and the stack re-opened. I've never used a widget in production yet, so I can't say I have an opinion there. If the uses for widgets are viewed as sufficiently different from engine-based controls that "the properties" so many of us enjoy wouldn't apply, I'm okay with that. Just looking to understand. >> That the company has such a narrowly specific view of the >> applicability of "the properties" is indeed helpful. Thank >> you for chiming in. > > Im not the company. Pardon my imprecision. I think the readers here are likely aware that the company is comprised of many people, and there are likely many different opinions on a wide range of topics, including this. Please read that as "a significant member of the company". > Mark may spend a lot more time pondering the utility of `the > properties` than I do and indeed may have a different opinion. > Indeed my opinion was much closer to yours is now when I sent > in a PR for LC 6.1 all those years ago ;-) One of the challenges with a tool as vastly capable as LiveCode is wrapping one's head around all the use-cases, and all the perceived priorities. Various members of the company and the community have expressed a wide range of opinions on many things. If "the properties" winds up being like the pointer tool requests I used to ask about, no worries. I stopped asking about those years ago. Indeed, even with "the properties" I've had a few discussions on this with different team members going back to Dr Brett, back when LCB was in its earliest stages. In my own mind having two different methods for obtaining property data for two classes of objects is akin to having two different words for "rect" or other basic features. Where a useful implementation has been chosen and established so long ago, it seems worth mirroring in new implementations. But TBH, since I haven't used widgets in production at all, the only time it comes to mind is when someone asks me about it for one of my tools, or in discussions like this one. This seemed a good time to see what the current vision is. I appreciate the clarity provided. >> How hard would it be for the team to map the existing means of >> extracting widget properties to "the properties? > > I dont think it would be particularly tricky to iterate the exported > property definitions to come up with a list of property names then > turn that into a key/value array. Whether it would provide the utility > you are looking for is a separate question. If it does what "the properties" does it would suit my needs. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu Apr 7 06:52:14 2022 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2022 13:52:14 +0300 Subject: Widget properties In-Reply-To: <3e8b82d3-fce9-3010-8cc2-0c489970804e@fourthworld.com> References: <5CE95C1C-0D42-48B1-88A4-42B92D9B877F@appisle.net> <3e8b82d3-fce9-3010-8cc2-0c489970804e@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Here's my 25p's worth: Ever since widgets 'appeared' I have thought of them as second class citizens insofar as: 1. They are 'bits of stuff' where experts (the LiveCode team and so on) have done the heavy lifting for those of us who haven't got the skill, motivation or time to work out how to get that sort of thing together in LiveCode itself. 2. I certainly never get into widgets when I teach computer programming for a number of reasons: 2.1. While I teach children to program with LiveCode, the ultimate aim is to equip them with a series of transferrable skills they can take 'to the table' of any programming language: the ability to drop in a prepackaged 'does-it-for-you' add-on (one of the things that sets my teeth on edge about Python) does not, as far as I am concerned, constitute computer programming as such. Of course people might start shouting at me, at this point, and say, "Well then, why don't you go back to command-line programming?", to which my riposte is, "That's why I START my programming with teenagers (it's a bit too much for preteens) with BASIC programming on my BBC Micro machines I have lovingly curated in my school." After a day or two with BBC BASIC on a black screen teenagers will "do anything for me" when they see the, supposedly, old-fashioned LiveCode IDE and the ever-so-sexy WYSIWYG GUI. 2.2. While a LiveCode button can be examined via its property inspector, a widget largely cannot, so a learner cannot really begin to understand how it is put together. 3. Widgets are, undoubtedly very clever insofar as they provide tools and services out of the box, and types like myself don't have to spend an awful lot of effort working out how to roll our own. 4. I suppose the 'price' of a widget is just exactly that one cannot really get t its underpinnings (properties) in quite the way one can withg a native LiveCode object. Having said all this, I don't use widgets (beyond fooling around with them when I have a spare moment), and on my teaching computers the widgets section of the revTools palette is never exposed. Were widgets to be "integrated" into LiveCode as per buttons, fields, images and so forth, with properties palettes allowing a vast number of variables to be accessible, my attitude towards them might change; but that seems unlikely to happen as they are quite different beasts to buttons, fields, images and so on. Best, Richmond. On 7.04.22 9:24, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > Thank you for your reply, Monte. Comments inline: > > Monte Goulding wrote: > >> On 7 Apr 2022, at 11:25 am, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> Can you help me understand how it's better than "the properties", > >> and why this superior method isn't used for engine controls? > > > > Because the array created by export and used by import contains > > the state of the widget as is saved when saving the stack. The > > content may or may not be the same as the property names exposed > > to user scripts but a widget created with that state should be > > the same as if it were saved in the stack and the stack re-opened. > > I've never used a widget in production yet, so I can't say I have an > opinion there.  If the uses for widgets are viewed as sufficiently > different from engine-based controls that "the properties" so many of > us enjoy wouldn't apply, I'm okay with that. Just looking to understand. > > > >> That the company has such a narrowly specific view of the > >> applicability of "the properties" is indeed helpful. Thank > >> you for chiming in. > > > > Im not the company. > > Pardon my imprecision. I think the readers here are likely aware that > the company is comprised of many people, and there are likely many > different opinions on a wide range of topics, including this.  Please > read that as "a significant member of the company". > > > > Mark may spend a lot more time pondering the utility of `the > > properties` than I do and indeed may have a different opinion. > > Indeed my opinion was much closer to yours is now when I sent > > in a PR for LC 6.1 all those years ago ;-) > > One of the challenges with a tool as vastly capable as LiveCode is > wrapping one's head around all the use-cases, and all the perceived > priorities.  Various members of the company and the community have > expressed a wide range of opinions on many things. > > If "the properties" winds up being like the pointer tool requests I > used to ask about, no worries. I stopped asking about those years ago. > > Indeed, even with "the properties" I've had a few discussions on this > with different team members going back to Dr Brett, back when LCB was > in its earliest stages. > > In my own mind having two different methods for obtaining property > data for two classes of objects is akin to having two different words > for "rect" or other basic features.  Where a useful implementation has > been chosen and established so long ago, it seems worth mirroring in > new implementations. > > But TBH, since I haven't used widgets in production at all, the only > time it comes to mind is when someone asks me about it for one of my > tools, or in discussions like this one. This seemed a good time to see > what the current vision is. I appreciate the clarity provided. > > > >> How hard would it be for the team to map the existing means of > >> extracting widget properties to "the properties? > > > > I dont think it would be particularly tricky to iterate the exported > > property definitions to come up with a list of property names then > > turn that into a key/value array. Whether it would provide the utility > > you are looking for is a separate question. > > If it does what "the properties" does it would suit my needs. > From harrison at all-auctions.com Thu Apr 7 12:57:12 2022 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2022 12:57:12 -0400 Subject: Ken Burns LC Stack In-Reply-To: <96b8493d-60d0-a70c-2970-b5e694aba1d1@sonic.net> References: <5593C51B-2909-4290-B6C1-CEC6121513B0@optusnet.com.au> <96b8493d-60d0-a70c-2970-b5e694aba1d1@sonic.net> Message-ID: <893094C3-9FE7-4C41-B423-74D2186D5B82@all-auctions.com> I downloaded the Ken Burns LC Stack and found that it doesn’t seem to work. Is anyone else finding it doesn’t work? Thanks, Rick From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Thu Apr 7 13:47:02 2022 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2022 13:47:02 -0400 Subject: JWT Token Decode In-Reply-To: <893094C3-9FE7-4C41-B423-74D2186D5B82@all-auctions.com> References: <5593C51B-2909-4290-B6C1-CEC6121513B0@optusnet.com.au> <96b8493d-60d0-a70c-2970-b5e694aba1d1@sonic.net> <893094C3-9FE7-4C41-B423-74D2186D5B82@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: <006c01d84aa7$7fb51f80$7f1f5e80$@net> Subject says it all. Has anyone done this in LC? In JavaScript it's decodeURIComponent. Thanks! Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net From jiml at netrin.com Thu Apr 7 15:17:31 2022 From: jiml at netrin.com (Jim Lambert) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2022 12:17:31 -0700 Subject: Widget properties In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0557A8C3-995A-4E48-B612-41EB8CACF78D@netrin.com> > After a day or two with BBC BASIC on a black screen teenagers will "do > anything for me" when they see the, supposedly, > old-fashioned LiveCode IDE and the ever-so-sexy WYSIWYG GUI. Using the ol' psychology on 'em. Wily! From brian at milby7.com Thu Apr 7 22:11:28 2022 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2022 22:11:28 -0400 Subject: Mobile Image Editing Message-ID: Greetings list people! I am currently working on a project where we will be editing images on a mobile device. I'm running into an issue where the formatted height and width of the image change. Most of the images are natively 1600x1200 but we initially display them scaled to fit on the screen. When the user does any edit action at a zoomed out level, the image is downsized to the current zoom. Once downsized, if you zoom in on the image and edit, the formatted size doesn't change. Is there any way around this? What we would really like is to edit the image and keep it at the full resolution. We are currently using the native LiveCode paint/bucket tools. Although most of my testing is in the IDE at the moment, we do use resize handlers to format for the actual device resolution. Thanks for any thoughts or pointers, Brian From devin_asay at byu.edu Fri Apr 8 10:58:08 2022 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2022 14:58:08 +0000 Subject: OSS installer for Linux? Message-ID: Hi all, Does anyone still have the Community installer for LiveCode 9.6.3 Linux? I have a colleague I’m trying to show LC to, but he’s reluctant to d/l the trial version. - Devin Devin Asay Office of Digital Humanities Brigham Young University From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Fri Apr 8 11:03:03 2022 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2022 18:03:03 +0300 Subject: OSS installer for Linux? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: https://archive.org/download/live-code-community-linux-x64/LiveCodeCommunityInstaller-9_6_3-Linux.x64 On 8.04.22 17:58, Devin Asay via use-livecode wrote: > Hi all, > > Does anyone still have the Community installer for LiveCode 9.6.3 Linux? I have a colleague Im trying to show LC to, but hes reluctant to d/l the trial version. > > - Devin > > Devin Asay > Office of Digital Humanities > Brigham Young University > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From devin_asay at byu.edu Fri Apr 8 11:34:33 2022 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2022 15:34:33 +0000 Subject: OSS installer for Linux? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6769D413-80F1-4EA0-ABAD-0E4B04A25E82@byu.edu> Thanks, Richmond! On Apr 8, 2022, at 9:03 AM, Richmond via use-livecode > wrote: https://archive.org/download/live-code-community-linux-x64/LiveCodeCommunityInstaller-9_6_3-Linux.x64 On 8.04.22 17:58, Devin Asay via use-livecode wrote: Hi all, Does anyone still have the Community installer for LiveCode 9.6.3 Linux? I have a colleague I’m trying to show LC to, but he’s reluctant to d/l the trial version. - Devin Devin Asay Office of Digital Humanities Brigham Young University _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode Devin Asay Office of Digital Humanities Brigham Young University From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Fri Apr 8 14:03:48 2022 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2022 14:03:48 -0400 Subject: Apple App Store Server Notifications [was JWT Token Decode] In-Reply-To: <006c01d84aa7$7fb51f80$7f1f5e80$@net> References: <5593C51B-2909-4290-B6C1-CEC6121513B0@optusnet.com.au> <96b8493d-60d0-a70c-2970-b5e694aba1d1@sonic.net> <893094C3-9FE7-4C41-B423-74D2186D5B82@all-auctions.com> <006c01d84aa7$7fb51f80$7f1f5e80$@net> Message-ID: <003801d84b73$02592af0$070b80d0$@net> Apple App Store Server Notifications sends transaction data to your server. It is especially good for in-app purchase refunds. If you had previously recorded the transaction ID of the original purchase you can match it up to the server notification and attach it to a user. When you use the App Store Server Notifications you receive(in Post Raw) either standard issue JSON(v1) or JWT(v2). I was using v1. When v2 was offered the description said you get more events with v2. So I went with v2 and got into the JWT issue. I was able to get the data out of the JWT but I'm still figuring out the verification. JWT is 3 period delimited base 64 encoded items. Header, Payload and Signature. JWT is not encrypted but by using the header and signature you can see if the payload has been manipulated or has dropped/scrambled bits Because the hash will not match. The payload(base 64 encoded) contains some the previously observed v1 JSON data. The actual transaction data is in a JSON element as another JWT encoded string. Again you base 64 decode item 2(period delimited) the transaction data and viola the remaining v1 JSON transaction elements are there. JWT uses Base 64 URL encoding. The "+" and "/" are substituted with "-" and "_" so A JWT can exist in a URL without any problems. Just scratching the surface of this giant headache. I now have the both payloads JSON but have to figure out how to verify the hash. I'm no worse off than the v1 straight up JSON but "inquiring minds want to know". Film at 11. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Apr 8 14:49:13 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2022 13:49:13 -0500 Subject: Mobile Image Editing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9b9072af-1693-2f5b-134c-a27193384ef6@hyperactivesw.com> I'm not sure I understand. When you "downsize" do you mean you're scaling? Or are you creating a new image? Or cropping the original? On 4/7/22 9:11 PM, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote: > Greetings list people! > > I am currently working on a project where we will be editing images on a > mobile device. I'm running into an issue where the formatted height and > width of the image change. Most of the images are natively 1600x1200 but > we initially display them scaled to fit on the screen. When the user does > any edit action at a zoomed out level, the image is downsized to the > current zoom. Once downsized, if you zoom in on the image and edit, the > formatted size doesn't change. > > Is there any way around this? What we would really like is to edit the > image and keep it at the full resolution. > > We are currently using the native LiveCode paint/bucket tools. Although > most of my testing is in the IDE at the moment, we do use resize handlers > to format for the actual device resolution. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From brian at milby7.com Fri Apr 8 15:02:34 2022 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2022 15:02:34 -0400 Subject: Mobile Image Editing In-Reply-To: <9b9072af-1693-2f5b-134c-a27193384ef6@hyperactivesw.com> References: <9b9072af-1693-2f5b-134c-a27193384ef6@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: The image on the card it 320x200 (rough, for discussion). The file is 1280x800. I do an import as paint and the formatted size matches the file initially. Fill/draw anything and the formatted size is now the same as the object. I’m saying it is downsized (scaled down). If I zoom in so the object is 640x400 (some not visible as it is off the card), then edit the formatted size changes to match. Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 8, 2022, at 2:50 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > > I'm not sure I understand. When you "downsize" do you mean you're scaling? Or are you creating a new image? Or cropping the original? > >> On 4/7/22 9:11 PM, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote: >> Greetings list people! >> I am currently working on a project where we will be editing images on a >> mobile device. I'm running into an issue where the formatted height and >> width of the image change. Most of the images are natively 1600x1200 but >> we initially display them scaled to fit on the screen. When the user does >> any edit action at a zoomed out level, the image is downsized to the >> current zoom. Once downsized, if you zoom in on the image and edit, the >> formatted size doesn't change. >> Is there any way around this? What we would really like is to edit the >> image and keep it at the full resolution. >> We are currently using the native LiveCode paint/bucket tools. Although >> most of my testing is in the IDE at the moment, we do use resize handlers >> to format for the actual device resolution. > > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From klaus at major-k.de Mon Apr 11 13:51:35 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2022 19:51:35 +0200 Subject: Localizing e.g. "Answer dialog" featuzre reques = hibernated? Message-ID: <343444A5-DBE6-496E-A01A-0A59B24A4AF1@major-k.de> Hi all, some time ago I "feature requested" a possibility to localize e.g. the "Answer Dialog": Example: Cancel = english, which is always displayed currently Annuler = french Abbrechen = german All these are much longer words, so just setting the label of that button will not suffice. Bernd Niggeman provided a nifty solution for this inconvenience. But why on earth has this been "Hibernated"? Don't we all think that we should be able to localize all aspectcs of LC? Not the whole world is speaking english, ladies and gentlemen! Maybe you want to add a comment, thank you! Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon Apr 11 14:00:26 2022 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2022 21:00:26 +0300 Subject: Localizing e.g. "Answer dialog" featuzre reques = hibernated? In-Reply-To: <343444A5-DBE6-496E-A01A-0A59B24A4AF1@major-k.de> References: <343444A5-DBE6-496E-A01A-0A59B24A4AF1@major-k.de> Message-ID: Ah cud spak , an, aiblins it micht be mensefu, anent ither leids, but Ah jalouse that fowk widnae thole war jalouse qhat Ah wis ettlin an speiran eftir. On Mon, 11 Apr 2022, 20:52 Klaus major-k via use-livecode, < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi all, > > some time ago I "feature requested" a possibility to localize e.g. the > "Answer Dialog": > > > Example: > Cancel = english, which is always displayed currently > Annuler = french > Abbrechen = german > All these are much longer words, so just setting the label of that button > will not suffice. > Bernd Niggeman provided a nifty solution for this inconvenience. > > But why on earth has this been "Hibernated"? > > Don't we all think that we should be able to localize all aspectcs of LC? > Not the whole world is speaking english, ladies and gentlemen! > > Maybe you want to add a comment, thank you! > > > Best > > Klaus > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > https://www.major-k.de/bass > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Apr 12 11:29:19 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2022 15:29:19 +0000 Subject: Localizing e.g. "Answer dialog" featuzre reques = hibernated? In-Reply-To: References: <343444A5-DBE6-496E-A01A-0A59B24A4AF1@major-k.de> Message-ID: My thoughts exactly! Bob S > On Apr 11, 2022, at 11:00 , Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: > > Ah cud spak , an, aiblins it micht be mensefu, anent ither leids, but Ah > jalouse that fowk widnae thole war jalouse qhat Ah wis ettlin an speiran > eftir. > > On Mon, 11 Apr 2022, 20:52 Klaus major-k via use-livecode, < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> some time ago I "feature requested" a possibility to localize e.g. the >> "Answer Dialog": >> >> >> Example: >> Cancel = english, which is always displayed currently >> Annuler = french >> Abbrechen = german >> All these are much longer words, so just setting the label of that button >> will not suffice. >> Bernd Niggeman provided a nifty solution for this inconvenience. >> >> But why on earth has this been "Hibernated"? >> >> Don't we all think that we should be able to localize all aspectcs of LC? >> Not the whole world is speaking english, ladies and gentlemen! >> >> Maybe you want to add a comment, thank you! >> >> >> Best >> >> Klaus >> -- >> Klaus Major >> https://www.major-k.de >> https://www.major-k.de/bass >> klaus at major-k.de >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Tue Apr 12 14:15:02 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2022 20:15:02 +0200 Subject: Localizing e.g. "Answer dialog" featuzre reques = hibernated? In-Reply-To: References: <343444A5-DBE6-496E-A01A-0A59B24A4AF1@major-k.de> Message-ID: <1EDEF2E0-3ED8-417D-A75F-BC25BF054A7E@m-r-d.de> Maybe I would agree, too, if I understood what Richmond wrote. ;) Tried even Google translate for Scottish to German. No success... :) > Am 12.04.2022 um 17:29 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode : > > My thoughts exactly! > > Bob S > > >> On Apr 11, 2022, at 11:00 , Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Ah cud spak , an, aiblins it micht be mensefu, anent ither leids, but Ah >> jalouse that fowk widnae thole war jalouse qhat Ah wis ettlin an speiran >> eftir. >> >> On Mon, 11 Apr 2022, 20:52 Klaus major-k via use-livecode, < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> some time ago I "feature requested" a possibility to localize e.g. the >>> "Answer Dialog": >>> >>> >>> Example: >>> Cancel = english, which is always displayed currently >>> Annuler = french >>> Abbrechen = german >>> All these are much longer words, so just setting the label of that button >>> will not suffice. >>> Bernd Niggeman provided a nifty solution for this inconvenience. >>> >>> But why on earth has this been "Hibernated"? >>> >>> Don't we all think that we should be able to localize all aspectcs of LC? >>> Not the whole world is speaking english, ladies and gentlemen! >>> >>> Maybe you want to add a comment, thank you! >>> >>> >>> Best >>> >>> Klaus >>> -- >>> Klaus Major >>> https://www.major-k.de >>> https://www.major-k.de/bass >>> klaus at major-k.de >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From klaus at major-k.de Tue Apr 12 14:24:21 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2022 20:24:21 +0200 Subject: Localizing e.g. "Answer dialog" featuzre reques = hibernated? In-Reply-To: <1EDEF2E0-3ED8-417D-A75F-BC25BF054A7E@m-r-d.de> References: <343444A5-DBE6-496E-A01A-0A59B24A4AF1@major-k.de> <1EDEF2E0-3ED8-417D-A75F-BC25BF054A7E@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <37297FED-3EC6-4065-A7E1-8C6853827142@major-k.de> Hi all, > Am 12.04.2022 um 20:15 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode : > > Maybe I would agree, too, if I understood what Richmond wrote. ;) > Tried even Google translate for Scottish to German. No success... :) he wrote: Cannot say anything to this issue, but must confuse the list or I will lose my good reputation otherwise. :-D :-D :-D > Am 12.04.2022 um 17:29 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode : >> >> My thoughts exactly! >> >> Bob S >> >> >>> On Apr 11, 2022, at 11:00 , Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> Ah cud spak , an, aiblins it micht be mensefu, anent ither leids, but Ah >>> jalouse that fowk widnae thole war jalouse qhat Ah wis ettlin an speiran >>> eftir. >>> >>> On Mon, 11 Apr 2022, 20:52 Klaus major-k via use-livecode, < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> some time ago I "feature requested" a possibility to localize e.g. the >>>> "Answer Dialog": >>>> >>>> >>>> Example: >>>> Cancel = english, which is always displayed currently >>>> Annuler = french >>>> Abbrechen = german >>>> All these are much longer words, so just setting the label of that button >>>> will not suffice. >>>> Bernd Niggeman provided a nifty solution for this inconvenience. >>>> >>>> But why on earth has this been "Hibernated"? >>>> >>>> Don't we all think that we should be able to localize all aspectcs of LC? >>>> Not the whole world is speaking english, ladies and gentlemen! >>>> >>>> Maybe you want to add a comment, thank you! Best Klaus > -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Apr 12 14:50:13 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2022 18:50:13 +0000 Subject: Localizing e.g. "Answer dialog" featuzre reques = hibernated? In-Reply-To: <37297FED-3EC6-4065-A7E1-8C6853827142@major-k.de> References: <343444A5-DBE6-496E-A01A-0A59B24A4AF1@major-k.de> <1EDEF2E0-3ED8-417D-A75F-BC25BF054A7E@m-r-d.de> <37297FED-3EC6-4065-A7E1-8C6853827142@major-k.de> Message-ID: <864D80BF-F7EA-4C9A-89A4-7919E1F2934E@iotecdigital.com> That is a very loose translation. ;-) Bob S > On Apr 12, 2022, at 11:24 , Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi all, > >> Am 12.04.2022 um 20:15 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode : >> >> Maybe I would agree, too, if I understood what Richmond wrote. ;) >> Tried even Google translate for Scottish to German. No success... :) > > he wrote: > Cannot say anything to this issue, but must confuse the list or I will > lose my good reputation otherwise. > > :-D :-D :-D From sean at pidigital.co.uk Tue Apr 12 15:03:44 2022 From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Pi Digital) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2022 20:03:44 +0100 Subject: Localizing e.g. "Answer dialog" featuzre reques = hibernated? In-Reply-To: <37297FED-3EC6-4065-A7E1-8C6853827142@major-k.de> References: <37297FED-3EC6-4065-A7E1-8C6853827142@major-k.de> Message-ID: <5D2F7900-704C-42F7-93A4-E6F00893D8B2@pidigital.co.uk> Fantastic :D Sean > On 12 Apr 2022, at 19:24, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > > he wrote: > Cannot say anything to this issue, but must confuse the list or I will > lose my good reputation otherwise. > > :-D :-D :-D > >>>> On Apr 11, 2022, at 11:00 , Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: >>>> >>>> Ah cud spak , an, aiblins it micht be mensefu, anent ither leids, but Ah >>>> jalouse that fowk widnae thole war jalouse qhat Ah wis ettlin an speiran >>>> eftir. >>>> >>>> Best > > Klaus From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Apr 12 17:16:59 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2022 21:16:59 +0000 Subject: Standalone Error Dialog Message-ID: <59CC8175-761D-4C7A-9052-4F3173E4F44E@iotecdigital.com> Hi all. Some time ago I began getting an error dialog reporting: 1 File to include in standalone not found: "" This apparently is not causing any issues that I have found, but I would sure like to find out what is causing it and stop it. Is there a Standalone Builder log I can look at? Bob S From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue Apr 12 17:32:45 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2022 16:32:45 -0500 Subject: Standalone Error Dialog In-Reply-To: <59CC8175-761D-4C7A-9052-4F3173E4F44E@iotecdigital.com> References: <59CC8175-761D-4C7A-9052-4F3173E4F44E@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <1801fb17448.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Double check the files in the Copy Files pane of the standalone settings and make sure that the file paths are correct. I'm not aware of a log file for the builder. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On April 12, 2022 4:19:16 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > Hi all. > > Some time ago I began getting an error dialog reporting: > > 1 File to include in standalone not found: "" > > This apparently is not causing any issues that I have found, but I would > sure like to find out what is causing it and stop it. > > Is there a Standalone Builder log I can look at? > > Bob S > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Apr 12 18:51:05 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2022 22:51:05 +0000 Subject: Standalone Error Dialog In-Reply-To: <1801fb17448.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <59CC8175-761D-4C7A-9052-4F3173E4F44E@iotecdigital.com> <1801fb17448.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Ya that is the first place I looked. I even re-added them all one by one. In a prior version of Livecode (I couldn't say which now) this did not happen. When I first noticed it, I went back to that prior version and built a standalone and it did not happen. I can ive with it. Bob S > On Apr 12, 2022, at 14:32 , J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > > Double check the files in the Copy Files pane of the standalone settings and make sure that the file paths are correct. I'm not aware of a log file for the builder. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > On April 12, 2022 4:19:16 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > >> Hi all. >> >> Some time ago I began getting an error dialog reporting: >> >> 1 File to include in standalone not found: "" >> >> This apparently is not causing any issues that I have found, but I would sure like to find out what is causing it and stop it. >> >> Is there a Standalone Builder log I can look at? >> >> Bob S >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Apr 13 02:38:03 2022 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 09:38:03 +0300 Subject: Localizing e.g. "Answer dialog" featuzre reques = hibernated? In-Reply-To: <5D2F7900-704C-42F7-93A4-E6F00893D8B2@pidigital.co.uk> References: <37297FED-3EC6-4065-A7E1-8C6853827142@major-k.de> <5D2F7900-704C-42F7-93A4-E6F00893D8B2@pidigital.co.uk> Message-ID: "Ah cud spak , an, aiblins it micht be mensefu, anent ither leids, but Ah jalouse that fowk widnae thole war jalouse qhat Ah wis ettlin an speiran eftir." Your responses proves my point: 'I could talk about other languages, and, maybe it might make sense, but I suspect people would not agree or understand exactly what I was on about or aiming after.' And as the Scots who do use LiveCode are all perfectly functional in English . . . On Tue, Apr 12, 2022 at 10:04 PM Pi Digital via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Fantastic :D > > Sean > > > > On 12 Apr 2022, at 19:24, Klaus major-k via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > he wrote: > > Cannot say anything to this issue, but must confuse the list or I will > > lose my good reputation otherwise. > > > > :-D :-D :-D > > > >>>> On Apr 11, 2022, at 11:00 , Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Ah cud spak , an, aiblins it micht be mensefu, anent ither leids, but > Ah > >>>> jalouse that fowk widnae thole war jalouse qhat Ah wis ettlin an > speiran > >>>> eftir. > >>>> > >>>> Best > > > > Klaus > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- This communication may be unlawfully collected and stored by the Agents of a large number of governments in secret. The parties to this email do not consent to the retrieving or storing of this communication and any related metadata, as well as printing, copying, re-transmitting, disseminating, or otherwise using it. If you believe you have received this communication in error, please delete it immediately. From paul at researchware.com Wed Apr 13 10:58:57 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 10:58:57 -0400 Subject: Quick Windows 11 test... Message-ID: <552754ae-1e8c-d081-f246-c40340c25eba@researchware.com> Can someone on Windows 11 with either (or both) LC 9.6.6 and 9.6.7 execute put systemVersion() and tell me what is reported? From paul at researchware.com Wed Apr 13 11:03:39 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 11:03:39 -0400 Subject: Quick Windows 11 test... In-Reply-To: <552754ae-1e8c-d081-f246-c40340c25eba@researchware.com> References: <552754ae-1e8c-d081-f246-c40340c25eba@researchware.com> Message-ID: On 4/13/2022 10:58 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > Can someone on Windows 11 with either (or both) LC 9.6.6 and 9.6.7 > execute > > put systemVersion() > > and tell me what is reported? > I would also be really helpful to know exactly what put systemVersion() returns on macOS Monterey for LC 9.6.6 or 9.6.7 as well. From klaus at major-k.de Wed Apr 13 11:09:03 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 17:09:03 +0200 Subject: Quick Windows 11 test... In-Reply-To: References: <552754ae-1e8c-d081-f246-c40340c25eba@researchware.com> Message-ID: <45060647-EBE6-474F-BAC0-F30E3DE4B81C@major-k.de> Hi Paul, > Am 13.04.2022 um 17:03 schrieb Paul Dupuis via use-livecode : > > On 4/13/2022 10:58 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: >> Can someone on Windows 11 with either (or both) LC 9.6.6 and 9.6.7 execute >> >> put systemVersion() >> and tell me what is reported? > > I would also be really helpful to know exactly what > put systemVersion() > returns on macOS Monterey for LC 9.6.6 or 9.6.7 as well. macOS 12.3.1, LC 9.6.7 -> 10.16.0 Same with LC 9.6.6 Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Apr 13 11:12:16 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 17:12:16 +0200 Subject: Quick Windows 11 test... In-Reply-To: <552754ae-1e8c-d081-f246-c40340c25eba@researchware.com> References: <552754ae-1e8c-d081-f246-c40340c25eba@researchware.com> Message-ID: <11A6F21E-4753-4384-8188-53BDE602FB49@m-r-d.de> NT 10.0 > Am 13.04.2022 um 16:58 schrieb Paul Dupuis via use-livecode : > > Can someone on Windows 11 with either (or both) LC 9.6.6 and 9.6.7 execute > > put systemVersion() > > and tell me what is reported? > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From merakosp at gmail.com Wed Apr 13 11:19:44 2022 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis m) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 18:19:44 +0300 Subject: Quick Windows 11 test... In-Reply-To: <11A6F21E-4753-4384-8188-53BDE602FB49@m-r-d.de> References: <552754ae-1e8c-d081-f246-c40340c25eba@researchware.com> <11A6F21E-4753-4384-8188-53BDE602FB49@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: Hello all, The function systemversion() returns 10.16.0 on MacOS Big Sur and above. This is something we should fix. As a workaround, until this is fixed, you can use this to get the system version on MacOS: function mySystemVersion get shell("sw_vers -productVersion") return it end mySystemVersion Cheers, Panos -- On Wed, 13 Apr 2022 at 18:13, matthias rebbe via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > NT 10.0 > > > Am 13.04.2022 um 16:58 schrieb Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: > > > > Can someone on Windows 11 with either (or both) LC 9.6.6 and 9.6.7 > execute > > > > put systemVersion() > > > > and tell me what is reported? > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From klaus at major-k.de Wed Apr 13 11:34:58 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 17:34:58 +0200 Subject: Localizing e.g. "Answer dialog" featuzre reques = hibernated? In-Reply-To: <343444A5-DBE6-496E-A01A-0A59B24A4AF1@major-k.de> References: <343444A5-DBE6-496E-A01A-0A59B24A4AF1@major-k.de> Message-ID: Hi all, OK, all jokes aside, please add a comment to that bug if you agree, so it will hopefully be reopened! > Am 11.04.2022 um 19:51 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode : > > Hi all, > > some time ago I "feature requested" a possibility to localize e.g. the "Answer Dialog": > > Example: > Cancel = english, which is always displayed currently > Annuler = french > Abbrechen = german > All these are much longer words, so just setting the label of that button will not suffice. > Bernd Niggeman provided a nifty solution for this inconvenience. > > But why on earth has this been "Hibernated"? > Don't we all think that we should be able to localize all aspectcs of LC? Of course I only mean all the strings visible to the users of your apps! > Not the whole world is speaking english, ladies and gentlemen! > Maybe you want to add a comment, thank you! Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From paul at researchware.com Wed Apr 13 13:40:04 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 13:40:04 -0400 Subject: Quick Windows 11 test... In-Reply-To: References: <552754ae-1e8c-d081-f246-c40340c25eba@researchware.com> <11A6F21E-4753-4384-8188-53BDE602FB49@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: On 4/13/2022 11:19 AM, panagiotis m via use-livecode wrote: > Hello all, > > The function systemversion() returns 10.16.0 on MacOS Big Sur and above. > This is something we should fix. > > As a workaround, until this is fixed, you can use this to get the system > version on MacOS: > > function mySystemVersion > get shell("sw_vers -productVersion") > return it > end mySystemVersion > > Cheers, > Panos > -- > Panos (or any other LC staffer?) Do you have a companion work-around for Window 11 which where systemVersion() reports "NT 10.0"? From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Apr 13 14:01:17 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 20:01:17 +0200 Subject: Quick Windows 11 test... In-Reply-To: References: <552754ae-1e8c-d081-f246-c40340c25eba@researchware.com> <11A6F21E-4753-4384-8188-53BDE602FB49@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <876B1BAA-D58D-4F6E-9E63-2E534A53E0EC@m-r-d.de> Unfortunately Windows 11 shell command 'version" returns NT 10.0. That's the same value as Windows 10 returns. > Am 13.04.2022 um 19:40 schrieb Paul Dupuis via use-livecode : > > On 4/13/2022 11:19 AM, panagiotis m via use-livecode wrote: >> Hello all, >> >> The function systemversion() returns 10.16.0 on MacOS Big Sur and above. >> This is something we should fix. >> >> As a workaround, until this is fixed, you can use this to get the system >> version on MacOS: >> >> function mySystemVersion >> get shell("sw_vers -productVersion") >> return it >> end mySystemVersion >> >> Cheers, >> Panos >> -- >> > Panos (or any other LC staffer?) > > Do you have a companion work-around for Window 11 which where systemVersion() reports "NT 10.0"? > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Apr 13 14:05:26 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 20:05:26 +0200 Subject: Quick Windows 11 test... In-Reply-To: <876B1BAA-D58D-4F6E-9E63-2E534A53E0EC@m-r-d.de> References: <552754ae-1e8c-d081-f246-c40340c25eba@researchware.com> <11A6F21E-4753-4384-8188-53BDE602FB49@m-r-d.de> <876B1BAA-D58D-4F6E-9E63-2E534A53E0EC@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <5442BE82-C30D-4537-A67D-C5E6ABB8EA83@m-r-d.de> Ups, not 'version' but 'ver' returns 10.0.xxxxxx.x. In my case 10.0.22581.100 Any value above 22000 is Windows 11, any value below of 22000 is Windows 10. > Am 13.04.2022 um 20:01 schrieb matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de: > > Unfortunately Windows 11 shell command 'version" returns NT 10.0. > That's the same value as Windows 10 returns. > > > > > >> Am 13.04.2022 um 19:40 schrieb Paul Dupuis via use-livecode >: >> >> On 4/13/2022 11:19 AM, panagiotis m via use-livecode wrote: >>> Hello all, >>> >>> The function systemversion() returns 10.16.0 on MacOS Big Sur and above. >>> This is something we should fix. >>> >>> As a workaround, until this is fixed, you can use this to get the system >>> version on MacOS: >>> >>> function mySystemVersion >>> get shell("sw_vers -productVersion") >>> return it >>> end mySystemVersion >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Panos >>> -- >>> >> Panos (or any other LC staffer?) >> >> Do you have a companion work-around for Window 11 which where systemVersion() reports "NT 10.0"? >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Apr 13 14:26:09 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 20:26:09 +0200 Subject: Quick Windows 11 test... In-Reply-To: <5442BE82-C30D-4537-A67D-C5E6ABB8EA83@m-r-d.de> References: <552754ae-1e8c-d081-f246-c40340c25eba@researchware.com> <11A6F21E-4753-4384-8188-53BDE602FB49@m-r-d.de> <876B1BAA-D58D-4F6E-9E63-2E534A53E0EC@m-r-d.de> <5442BE82-C30D-4537-A67D-C5E6ABB8EA83@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: This here would return the macOS version and would return Windows 10 on version 10 and Windows 11 on version 11 If you also need this for other Windows version you have to extend it a little bit switch the platform case "Win32" put shell("ver") into tVersion set the itemdelimiter to "." if item 3 of tVersion >22000 then return "Windows 11" else return "Windows 10" end if break case "MacOS" get shell("sw_vers -productVersion") return it break end switch > Am 13.04.2022 um 20:05 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode : > > Ups, > > not 'version' but 'ver' returns 10.0.xxxxxx.x. > In my case 10.0.22581.100 > > > Any value above 22000 is Windows 11, any value below of 22000 is Windows 10. > > >> Am 13.04.2022 um 20:01 schrieb matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de: >> >> Unfortunately Windows 11 shell command 'version" returns NT 10.0. >> That's the same value as Windows 10 returns. >> >> >> >> >> >>> Am 13.04.2022 um 19:40 schrieb Paul Dupuis via use-livecode >: >>> >>> On 4/13/2022 11:19 AM, panagiotis m via use-livecode wrote: >>>> Hello all, >>>> >>>> The function systemversion() returns 10.16.0 on MacOS Big Sur and above. >>>> This is something we should fix. >>>> >>>> As a workaround, until this is fixed, you can use this to get the system >>>> version on MacOS: >>>> >>>> function mySystemVersion >>>> get shell("sw_vers -productVersion") >>>> return it >>>> end mySystemVersion >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Panos >>>> -- >>>> >>> Panos (or any other LC staffer?) >>> >>> Do you have a companion work-around for Window 11 which where systemVersion() reports "NT 10.0"? >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Apr 13 15:12:33 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 21:12:33 +0200 Subject: Quick Windows 11 test... In-Reply-To: References: <552754ae-1e8c-d081-f246-c40340c25eba@researchware.com> <11A6F21E-4753-4384-8188-53BDE602FB49@m-r-d.de> <876B1BAA-D58D-4F6E-9E63-2E534A53E0EC@m-r-d.de> <5442BE82-C30D-4537-A67D-C5E6ABB8EA83@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <5C95C0AE-70B8-46E1-913F-168403DAD8E4@m-r-d.de> Or you could execute this windows shell command in the LC shell() function wmic os get Caption /value which then would return something like this for example Caption=Microsoft Windows 11 Enterprise > Am 13.04.2022 um 20:26 schrieb matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de: > > This here would > > return the macOS version and would return Windows 10 on version 10 and Windows 11 on version 11 > If you also need this for other Windows version you have to extend it a little bit > > > switch the platform > case "Win32" > put shell("ver") into tVersion > set the itemdelimiter to "." > if item 3 of tVersion >22000 > then > return "Windows 11" > else > return "Windows 10" > end if > break > case "MacOS" > get shell("sw_vers -productVersion") > return it > break > end switch > > > > >> Am 13.04.2022 um 20:05 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode >: >> >> Ups, >> >> not 'version' but 'ver' returns 10.0.xxxxxx.x. >> In my case 10.0.22581.100 >> >> >> Any value above 22000 is Windows 11, any value below of 22000 is Windows 10. >> >> >>> Am 13.04.2022 um 20:01 schrieb matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de : >>> >>> Unfortunately Windows 11 shell command 'version" returns NT 10.0. >>> That's the same value as Windows 10 returns. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> Am 13.04.2022 um 19:40 schrieb Paul Dupuis via use-livecode >>: >>>> >>>> On 4/13/2022 11:19 AM, panagiotis m via use-livecode wrote: >>>>> Hello all, >>>>> >>>>> The function systemversion() returns 10.16.0 on MacOS Big Sur and above. >>>>> This is something we should fix. >>>>> >>>>> As a workaround, until this is fixed, you can use this to get the system >>>>> version on MacOS: >>>>> >>>>> function mySystemVersion >>>>> get shell("sw_vers -productVersion") >>>>> return it >>>>> end mySystemVersion >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Panos >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>> Panos (or any other LC staffer?) >>>> >>>> Do you have a companion work-around for Window 11 which where systemVersion() reports "NT 10.0"? >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Wed Apr 13 16:01:59 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 16:01:59 -0400 Subject: Quick Windows 11 test... In-Reply-To: <552754ae-1e8c-d081-f246-c40340c25eba@researchware.com> References: <552754ae-1e8c-d081-f246-c40340c25eba@researchware.com> Message-ID: Thank you to everyone for the responses. I hope that LC 10 will "fix" the systemVersion() to return customer meaningful OS version information, but I recognize that is hard to do when the OS manufacturers (I am looking at YOU Microsoft and Apple) do not update their OS APIs to return the same versions their MARKETING people insist on labeling the OSes as! Grrrrrr! From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Wed Apr 13 21:49:08 2022 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2022 11:49:08 +1000 Subject: widget properties In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: (Bug 23670 ) has been referred by QualityControl to Expert Review, as Panos was not sure whether this is a real bug. As a use-case I have commented that the properties of all controls, including widgets, is needed when comparing stacks for example. In the meantime, I have uploaded version 2 of nsScriptDatabase to Sample Stacks, now optionally allowing adding the properties of objects to the database, so the complete state of a stack is captured, although scripts remain the main focus. When using the "compare stacks” feature I make up a credible list of properties for widgets. Neville From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Wed Apr 13 22:58:27 2022 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2022 12:58:27 +1000 Subject: IAC for Livecode standalones In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <633AC005-E858-4D6E-870B-D26A4A9BE7FE@optusnet.com.au> When developing my recent utility I have thought it could be useful if other users could access the output from some of its features, in other words inter-application communication. Stacks can do this if the utility is running in the IDE but not when run as a standalone. Now a Mac fully-featured app is encouraged to implement AppleScript access. It appears LC has a couple of features for helping to implement AS, (send to program and reply) but implementing AC in an LC standalone still looks to be even more complicated than in Xcode, where it so painful than most apps don’t bother: you have to set up a separate event handler and create the AS dictionary, and the AS language itself is abstruse to say the least — but how fantastically useful are those apps like Excel which do the implementation well! LC appears to have nothing for VB for Windows and I have no idea how to to do it myself on Windows. And of course there is nothing for Linux (go away and write your own sockets implementation at both ends!!) How cool would it be if LC standalones could easily talk to each other, at least when running on the same platform, which is where AppleScript and VB live! It certainly is possible, I have done at least one half of it running scripts in an LC app from a shell interface, connecting via sockets; but the learning curve for the coding was high. [Remote IAC raises knotty problems of implementation (secure login or Html POST?) and heightened security problems - though LC actually already does Remote Debugging which is related but not quite the same as normal IAC usage; for example with Remote Debugging you can run any script remotely unless it is password protected, quite the opposite of what you want IAC access to do. And it only works from the IDE source] I don’t know if this idea has been raised before, but I reckon all it should need for a very LC-style implementation would be: In the target app, expose a handler by simply marking it as public. And preferably provide a manifest describing the usage and input/output.That’s it. No dictionary resource files, no coding. In the source app I'm guessing one would only have Open application “foo” for IAC with credentials “its me" -> an access id and array of handlers and their manifests Dispatch “myhandler” to application “foo” with -> the result or error if not handled for timed out Close application pAccessId The engine would handle finding the LC app, connecting to a socket automatically opened on launch if the app has a public handler, getting user authorisation [Allow Always? On Launch? On Request?] and swapping certificates, and then data transfer. I leave this part as an exercise for the reader Neville From dvglasgow at gmail.com Fri Apr 15 13:27:22 2022 From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David Glasgow) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2022 18:27:22 +0100 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. Message-ID: <93653D24-AA11-4929-84EA-8774D756CA3F@gmail.com> Hi folks, MacOS 10.13.6 and Livecode 9.6.0 It may be that this is well known to everyone but me. But just in case... I have a card (A) with two fields in separate groups. Field 1 contains many many thousands of lines of text which are filtered for keywords and the results displayed in field 2 (which can also be many thousands of lines). The user can navigate to a separate card (B) to view summary statistics and a bar chart. I found that worked fine, but navigating back from B to A always took many seconds and looked like a hang. The delay seemed to be in some way proportional to the number of lines in field 1 and field 2. By a slip of the finger I discovered that this lag disappears completely if the groups containing field 1 and 2 are also placed on the summary stats card B. There is no real need for either to be there otherwise , and it seems they can even be invisible. I tried to see if there is a significant memory overhead to doing this, but there doesn’t seem to be. Is this a known thing? And either way, is there a better approach, or a downside I haven’t considered? Best Wishes, David Glasgow From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Apr 15 15:35:57 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2022 19:35:57 +0000 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: <93653D24-AA11-4929-84EA-8774D756CA3F@gmail.com> References: <93653D24-AA11-4929-84EA-8774D756CA3F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <9CDC6EB2-8686-4406-9D66-B703C53724A3@iotecdigital.com> Not sure why you are having this issue, but I will say that this is one of the primary reasons Datagrids were created. Table fields with large amounts of data were causing issues, and especially if the limits of lines or characters were exceeded. With a Datagrid however, only the data that is visible is actually being displayed. For example, you can have a datagrid with 10 visible rows and containing 10,000 lines of text (or array keys if you prefer) but only 10 lines of data will actually be in fields in the datagrid. There is wizardry in play when you scroll. It *appears* like there is data above and below the visible data, but trust me there is not. You can think of a datagrid as a moving window above the data. Anything not showing throught the window is not being processed by your vision, if you take my clumsy analogy. Once the data is in the datagrid, there are a number of ways to work with it. I like using the dgData of the datagrid which returns a numbered array, because I have written functions like filterArray and arrayToSQLite, cursorToArray, arrayToText, mergeArray etc. which allow me to work efficiently with these numbered arrays. Of particular interest to you might be the arrayToSQLite, bcause once you have data in an sqLite table, querying is a much more powerful (and efficient) way of getting just the data you want, such as the information displayed in your summary page. To use datagrids, you only need to know about a few properties, particularly the dgData, the dgText, the dgHilitedLine / Index, the dgDataOfLine / Index and handling the selectionChanged message. Bob S > On Apr 15, 2022, at 10:27 , David Glasgow via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi folks, > > > MacOS 10.13.6 and Livecode 9.6.0 > > It may be that this is well known to everyone but me. But just in case... > > I have a card (A) with two fields in separate groups. Field 1 contains many many thousands of lines of text which are filtered for keywords and the results displayed in field 2 (which can also be many thousands of lines). The user can navigate to a separate card (B) to view summary statistics and a bar chart. > > I found that worked fine, but navigating back from B to A always took many seconds and looked like a hang. The delay seemed to be in some way proportional to the number of lines in field 1 and field 2. > > By a slip of the finger I discovered that this lag disappears completely if the groups containing field 1 and 2 are also placed on the summary stats card B. There is no real need for either to be there otherwise , and it seems they can even be invisible. I tried to see if there is a significant memory overhead to doing this, but there doesn’t seem to be. > > Is this a known thing? And either way, is there a better approach, or a downside I haven’t considered? > > Best Wishes, > > David Glasgow > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dvglasgow at gmail.com Sat Apr 16 04:39:21 2022 From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David V Glasgow) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2022 09:39:21 +0100 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: <9CDC6EB2-8686-4406-9D66-B703C53724A3@iotecdigital.com> References: <93653D24-AA11-4929-84EA-8774D756CA3F@gmail.com> <9CDC6EB2-8686-4406-9D66-B703C53724A3@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <7E336532-CCB4-4DA8-B5BB-4677587424D9@gmail.com> Thanks for this, Bob. I have followed various discussions about datagrids, but didn’t appreciate the property your “window on the data” metaphor describes. I have also noticed that processing text in a variable is amazingly fast but then the results being put into a field takes a lot of time. I assume the linking of a text variable to a datagrid would also avoid that bottleneck? That is very interesting and I will explore the functions you describe. Thanks very much. Best Wishes, David Glasgow > On 15 Apr 2022, at 8:35 pm, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > Not sure why you are having this issue, but I will say that this is one of the primary reasons Datagrids were created. Table fields with large amounts of data were causing issues, and especially if the limits of lines or characters were exceeded. > > With a Datagrid however, only the data that is visible is actually being displayed. For example, you can have a datagrid with 10 visible rows and containing 10,000 lines of text (or array keys if you prefer) but only 10 lines of data will actually be in fields in the datagrid. There is wizardry in play when you scroll. It *appears* like there is data above and below the visible data, but trust me there is not. You can think of a datagrid as a moving window above the data. Anything not showing throught the window is not being processed by your vision, if you take my clumsy analogy. > > Once the data is in the datagrid, there are a number of ways to work with it. I like using the dgData of the datagrid which returns a numbered array, because I have written functions like filterArray and arrayToSQLite, cursorToArray, arrayToText, mergeArray etc. which allow me to work efficiently with these numbered arrays. > > Of particular interest to you might be the arrayToSQLite, bcause once you have data in an sqLite table, querying is a much more powerful (and efficient) way of getting just the data you want, such as the information displayed in your summary page. > > To use datagrids, you only need to know about a few properties, particularly the dgData, the dgText, the dgHilitedLine / Index, the dgDataOfLine / Index and handling the selectionChanged message. > > Bob S > > >> On Apr 15, 2022, at 10:27 , David Glasgow via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Hi folks, >> >> >> MacOS 10.13.6 and Livecode 9.6.0 >> >> It may be that this is well known to everyone but me. But just in case... >> >> I have a card (A) with two fields in separate groups. Field 1 contains many many thousands of lines of text which are filtered for keywords and the results displayed in field 2 (which can also be many thousands of lines). The user can navigate to a separate card (B) to view summary statistics and a bar chart. >> >> I found that worked fine, but navigating back from B to A always took many seconds and looked like a hang. The delay seemed to be in some way proportional to the number of lines in field 1 and field 2. >> >> By a slip of the finger I discovered that this lag disappears completely if the groups containing field 1 and 2 are also placed on the summary stats card B. There is no real need for either to be there otherwise , and it seems they can even be invisible. I tried to see if there is a significant memory overhead to doing this, but there doesn’t seem to be. >> >> Is this a known thing? And either way, is there a better approach, or a downside I haven’t considered? >> >> Best Wishes, >> >> David Glasgow >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat Apr 16 15:20:37 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2022 12:20:37 -0700 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: <93653D24-AA11-4929-84EA-8774D756CA3F@gmail.com> References: <93653D24-AA11-4929-84EA-8774D756CA3F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3b85009b-b04a-8545-debb-300584970309@fourthworld.com> David Glasgow wrote: > I have a card (A) with two fields in separate groups. Field 1 > contains many many thousands of lines of text which are filtered > for keywords and the results displayed in field 2 (which can also > be many thousands of lines). The user can navigate to a separate > card (B) to view summary statistics and a bar chart. > > I found that worked fine, but navigating back from B to A always > took many seconds and looked like a hang. The delay seemed to be > in some way proportional to the number of lines in field 1 and > field 2. How many is "many many thousands of lines"? 10k? 100k? More? Is the data displayed in list fields, or must the line wraps be calculated? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From jiml at netrin.com Sat Apr 16 15:46:16 2022 From: jiml at netrin.com (Jim Lambert) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2022 12:46:16 -0700 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > but then the results being put into a field takes a lot of time. Does locking the screen before putting text into the field help speed things up? From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Apr 16 17:40:59 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2022 16:40:59 -0500 Subject: Pixel 5 Message-ID: <359a6dca-ef11-76d1-7307-08737cad86eb@hyperactivesw.com> If anyone is interested in acquiring a Pixel 5 please contact me. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Sat Apr 16 19:30:05 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2022 23:30:05 +0000 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: <7E336532-CCB4-4DA8-B5BB-4677587424D9@gmail.com> References: <93653D24-AA11-4929-84EA-8774D756CA3F@gmail.com> <9CDC6EB2-8686-4406-9D66-B703C53724A3@iotecdigital.com> <7E336532-CCB4-4DA8-B5BB-4677587424D9@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0F185C31-A5DA-48E4-88DF-9CF0F1D33ED7@iotecdigital.com> Yes, I think you have it when you say that displaying text in a field is processor intensive. Fields are notoriously inefficient at storage. Do all your processing in memory and then display your results in whatever object you desire. Datagrids can provide an efficient intermediary display mechanism because the data is already in a form that is easy to work with, namely arrays. An array is merely a handle to a position in memory. A datagrid is a window on that object. As you scroll through the datagrid, you are only manipulating the data appearing in the window, and not the data itself. A field is different in that how the data appears in the interface must be calculated in advance. Think of it like the old “How do you eat an Elephant” allegory. The Datagrid eats the Elephant, “One Bite At a Time.” The field tries to eat the Elephant all at once. Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 16, 2022, at 01:40, David V Glasgow via use-livecode wrote: > > Thanks for this, Bob. I have followed various discussions about datagrids, but didn’t appreciate the property your “window on the data” metaphor describes. I have also noticed that processing text in a variable is amazingly fast but then the results being put into a field takes a lot of time. I assume the linking of a text variable to a datagrid would also avoid that bottleneck? > > That is very interesting and I will explore the functions you describe. Thanks very much. > > Best Wishes, > > David Glasgow > > >> On 15 Apr 2022, at 8:35 pm, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Not sure why you are having this issue, but I will say that this is one of the primary reasons Datagrids were created. Table fields with large amounts of data were causing issues, and especially if the limits of lines or characters were exceeded. >> >> With a Datagrid however, only the data that is visible is actually being displayed. For example, you can have a datagrid with 10 visible rows and containing 10,000 lines of text (or array keys if you prefer) but only 10 lines of data will actually be in fields in the datagrid. There is wizardry in play when you scroll. It *appears* like there is data above and below the visible data, but trust me there is not. You can think of a datagrid as a moving window above the data. Anything not showing throught the window is not being processed by your vision, if you take my clumsy analogy. >> >> Once the data is in the datagrid, there are a number of ways to work with it. I like using the dgData of the datagrid which returns a numbered array, because I have written functions like filterArray and arrayToSQLite, cursorToArray, arrayToText, mergeArray etc. which allow me to work efficiently with these numbered arrays. >> >> Of particular interest to you might be the arrayToSQLite, bcause once you have data in an sqLite table, querying is a much more powerful (and efficient) way of getting just the data you want, such as the information displayed in your summary page. >> >> To use datagrids, you only need to know about a few properties, particularly the dgData, the dgText, the dgHilitedLine / Index, the dgDataOfLine / Index and handling the selectionChanged message. >> >> Bob S >> >> >>>> On Apr 15, 2022, at 10:27 , David Glasgow via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> Hi folks, >>> >>> >>> MacOS 10.13.6 and Livecode 9.6.0 >>> >>> It may be that this is well known to everyone but me. But just in case... >>> >>> I have a card (A) with two fields in separate groups. Field 1 contains many many thousands of lines of text which are filtered for keywords and the results displayed in field 2 (which can also be many thousands of lines). The user can navigate to a separate card (B) to view summary statistics and a bar chart. >>> >>> I found that worked fine, but navigating back from B to A always took many seconds and looked like a hang. The delay seemed to be in some way proportional to the number of lines in field 1 and field 2. >>> >>> By a slip of the finger I discovered that this lag disappears completely if the groups containing field 1 and 2 are also placed on the summary stats card B. There is no real need for either to be there otherwise , and it seems they can even be invisible. I tried to see if there is a significant memory overhead to doing this, but there doesn’t seem to be. >>> >>> Is this a known thing? And either way, is there a better approach, or a downside I haven’t considered? >>> >>> Best Wishes, >>> >>> David Glasgow >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Apr 16 22:11:46 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2022 21:11:46 -0500 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: <0F185C31-A5DA-48E4-88DF-9CF0F1D33ED7@iotecdigital.com> References: <93653D24-AA11-4929-84EA-8774D756CA3F@gmail.com> <9CDC6EB2-8686-4406-9D66-B703C53724A3@iotecdigital.com> <7E336532-CCB4-4DA8-B5BB-4677587424D9@gmail.com> <0F185C31-A5DA-48E4-88DF-9CF0F1D33ED7@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <180354a56d0.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> So fields are snakes and datagrids are mice. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On April 16, 2022 6:32:19 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > The Datagrid eats the Elephant, One Bite At a Time. The field tries to > eat the Elephant all at once. From dochawk at gmail.com Sat Apr 16 23:05:40 2022 From: dochawk at gmail.com (doc hawk) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2022 20:05:40 -0700 Subject: Pixel 5 In-Reply-To: <359a6dca-ef11-76d1-7307-08737cad86eb@hyperactivesw.com> References: <359a6dca-ef11-76d1-7307-08737cad86eb@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <09364CD0-144A-4569-80C9-ABE0B1F55508@gmail.com> For some reason, I feel a sudden urge to sprinkle my doorstep with Holy Water . . . From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun Apr 17 01:50:30 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 00:50:30 -0500 Subject: Pixel 5 In-Reply-To: <09364CD0-144A-4569-80C9-ABE0B1F55508@gmail.com> References: <359a6dca-ef11-76d1-7307-08737cad86eb@hyperactivesw.com> <09364CD0-144A-4569-80C9-ABE0B1F55508@gmail.com> Message-ID: <18036129870.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> You don't know what you're missing. :) There's so little freedom over on the other side. I could never go back. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On April 16, 2022 10:07:48 PM doc hawk via use-livecode wrote: > For some reason, I feel a sudden urge to sprinkle my doorstep with Holy > Water . . . > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dvglasgow at gmail.com Sun Apr 17 04:00:24 2022 From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David V Glasgow) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 09:00:24 +0100 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Jim, The text in fields doesn’t move or change after the initial analysis. the slowdown is just navigating back to to the card containing the fields from from one which doesn’t contain the fields. Cheers David G > On 16 Apr 2022, at 8:46 pm, Jim Lambert via use-livecode wrote: > > >> but then the results being put into a field takes a lot of time. > > Does locking the screen before putting text into the field help speed things up? > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dvglasgow at gmail.com Sun Apr 17 04:06:46 2022 From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David V Glasgow) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 09:06:46 +0100 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: <3b85009b-b04a-8545-debb-300584970309@fourthworld.com> References: <93653D24-AA11-4929-84EA-8774D756CA3F@gmail.com> <3b85009b-b04a-8545-debb-300584970309@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <7250B533-189C-4B87-8E19-4461D61319B4@gmail.com> Hi Richard > On 16 Apr 2022, at 8:20 pm, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > How many is "many many thousands of lines"? 10k? 100k? More? Typically 30,000 to 800,000. One field wrapped (the imported ‘source’ text) and the other a, unwrapped list of found lines containing a keyword. > > Is the data displayed in list fields, or must the line wraps be calculated? The wrapped line field is locked and doesn’t change after import and is unaffected by the keyword-containing-lines process. I suppose a good question is are line wraps recalculated on navigation to the card. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web From dvglasgow at gmail.com Sun Apr 17 04:10:30 2022 From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David V Glasgow) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 09:10:30 +0100 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: <0F185C31-A5DA-48E4-88DF-9CF0F1D33ED7@iotecdigital.com> References: <93653D24-AA11-4929-84EA-8774D756CA3F@gmail.com> <9CDC6EB2-8686-4406-9D66-B703C53724A3@iotecdigital.com> <7E336532-CCB4-4DA8-B5BB-4677587424D9@gmail.com> <0F185C31-A5DA-48E4-88DF-9CF0F1D33ED7@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: > On 17 Apr 2022, at 12:30 am, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > Yes, I think you have it when you say that displaying text in a field is processor intensive. Fields are notoriously inefficient at storage. Do all your processing in memory and then display your results in whatever object you desire. Yup, I do that. processing takes time, but honestly it is amazingly fast. Dumping found lines into the results field takes a surprising amount of time, but even that doesn’t bother me too much. The issue is purely navigating back to the card containing the 600lb fields from any card that doesn’t. > Datagrids can provide an efficient intermediary display mechanism because the data is already in a form that is easy to work with, namely arrays. An array is merely a handle to a position in memory. A datagrid is a window on that object. As you scroll through the datagrid, you are only manipulating the data appearing in the window, and not the data itself. > > A field is different in that how the data appears in the interface must be calculated in advance. Think of it like the old “How do you eat an Elephant” allegory. The Datagrid eats the Elephant, “One Bite At a Time.” The field tries to eat the Elephant all at once. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Apr 16, 2022, at 01:40, David V Glasgow via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Thanks for this, Bob. I have followed various discussions about datagrids, but didn’t appreciate the property your “window on the data” metaphor describes. I have also noticed that processing text in a variable is amazingly fast but then the results being put into a field takes a lot of time. I assume the linking of a text variable to a datagrid would also avoid that bottleneck? >> >> That is very interesting and I will explore the functions you describe. Thanks very much. >> >> Best Wishes, >> >> David Glasgow >> >> >>> On 15 Apr 2022, at 8:35 pm, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> Not sure why you are having this issue, but I will say that this is one of the primary reasons Datagrids were created. Table fields with large amounts of data were causing issues, and especially if the limits of lines or characters were exceeded. >>> >>> With a Datagrid however, only the data that is visible is actually being displayed. For example, you can have a datagrid with 10 visible rows and containing 10,000 lines of text (or array keys if you prefer) but only 10 lines of data will actually be in fields in the datagrid. There is wizardry in play when you scroll. It *appears* like there is data above and below the visible data, but trust me there is not. You can think of a datagrid as a moving window above the data. Anything not showing throught the window is not being processed by your vision, if you take my clumsy analogy. >>> >>> Once the data is in the datagrid, there are a number of ways to work with it. I like using the dgData of the datagrid which returns a numbered array, because I have written functions like filterArray and arrayToSQLite, cursorToArray, arrayToText, mergeArray etc. which allow me to work efficiently with these numbered arrays. >>> >>> Of particular interest to you might be the arrayToSQLite, bcause once you have data in an sqLite table, querying is a much more powerful (and efficient) way of getting just the data you want, such as the information displayed in your summary page. >>> >>> To use datagrids, you only need to know about a few properties, particularly the dgData, the dgText, the dgHilitedLine / Index, the dgDataOfLine / Index and handling the selectionChanged message. >>> >>> Bob S >>> >>> >>>>> On Apr 15, 2022, at 10:27 , David Glasgow via use-livecode wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi folks, >>>> >>>> >>>> MacOS 10.13.6 and Livecode 9.6.0 >>>> >>>> It may be that this is well known to everyone but me. But just in case... >>>> >>>> I have a card (A) with two fields in separate groups. Field 1 contains many many thousands of lines of text which are filtered for keywords and the results displayed in field 2 (which can also be many thousands of lines). The user can navigate to a separate card (B) to view summary statistics and a bar chart. >>>> >>>> I found that worked fine, but navigating back from B to A always took many seconds and looked like a hang. The delay seemed to be in some way proportional to the number of lines in field 1 and field 2. >>>> >>>> By a slip of the finger I discovered that this lag disappears completely if the groups containing field 1 and 2 are also placed on the summary stats card B. There is no real need for either to be there otherwise , and it seems they can even be invisible. I tried to see if there is a significant memory overhead to doing this, but there doesn’t seem to be. >>>> >>>> Is this a known thing? And either way, is there a better approach, or a downside I haven’t considered? >>>> >>>> Best Wishes, >>>> >>>> David Glasgow >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sun Apr 17 09:48:39 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 06:48:39 -0700 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: <7250B533-189C-4B87-8E19-4461D61319B4@gmail.com> References: <7250B533-189C-4B87-8E19-4461D61319B4@gmail.com> Message-ID: <52bd473f-7bea-c605-fc71-1c724d247974@fourthworld.com> David V Glasgow wrote: > On 16 Apr 2022, at 8:20 pm, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> >> How many is "many many thousands of lines"? 10k? 100k? More? > > Typically 30,000 to 800,000. What is the user asked to do with 800,000 lines of data? That is, does this need to be displayed? >> Is the data displayed in list fields, or must the line wraps be >> calculated? > > The wrapped line field is locked and doesnt change after import > and is unaffected by the keyword-containing-lines process. I > suppose a good question is are line wraps recalculated on navigation > to the card. I'd guess that the card record is unpacked before rendering, which would include the controls, such as fields, and their contents. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems From craig at starfirelighting.com Mon Apr 18 10:04:44 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2022 10:04:44 -0400 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: <52bd473f-7bea-c605-fc71-1c724d247974@fourthworld.com> References: <7250B533-189C-4B87-8E19-4461D61319B4@gmail.com> <52bd473f-7bea-c605-fc71-1c724d247974@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <91D0C81F-5764-43D7-A1DD-5A8DAC8858EA@starfirelighting.com> I think on the forum a few years ago we played with a gadget that only displayed a small number of lines of a very large dataset. That would perhaps allow a table field to be used without having to learn all about dataGrids. I will try to find that discussion. Not that it is not a good idea to at least use the basics of a DG as a standard tool as a matter of course. Craig > On Apr 17, 2022, at 9:48 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > > David V Glasgow wrote: > > > On 16 Apr 2022, at 8:20 pm, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> > >> How many is "many many thousands of lines"? 10k? 100k? More? > > > > Typically 30,000 to 800,000. > > What is the user asked to do with 800,000 lines of data? > > That is, does this need to be displayed? > > > >> Is the data displayed in list fields, or must the line wraps be > >> calculated? > > > > The wrapped line field is locked and doesn’t change after import > > and is unaffected by the keyword-containing-lines process. I > > suppose a good question is are line wraps recalculated on navigation > > to the card. > > I'd guess that the card record is unpacked before rendering, which would include the controls, such as fields, and their contents. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Apr 18 12:42:40 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2022 09:42:40 -0700 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: <91D0C81F-5764-43D7-A1DD-5A8DAC8858EA@starfirelighting.com> References: <91D0C81F-5764-43D7-A1DD-5A8DAC8858EA@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: <9b0e6cd0-219b-8bcd-7089-62cdfd1025e4@fourthworld.com> Yes, there are many ways to explore HOW to display data. My question is WHY. Or more specifically, "What is the user asked to do with the data?" If we solve the display challenge without considering the user task, the user task remains unaddressed. But if we craft the UI to support the user task, I suspect the display question will resolve itself. Maybe. Or maybe not. We'll find out when David returns to this thread to tell us about the user task. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Craig Newman wrote: > I think on the forum a few years ago we played with a gadget that only displayed a small number of lines of a very large dataset. That would perhaps allow a table field to be used without having to learn all about dataGrids. I will try to find that discussion. > > Not that it is not a good idea to at least use the basics of a DG as a standard tool as a matter of course. > > Craig > >> On Apr 17, 2022, at 9:48 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >> >> >> David V Glasgow wrote: >> >> > On 16 Apr 2022, at 8:20 pm, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> >> >> >> How many is "many many thousands of lines"? 10k? 100k? More? >> > >> > Typically 30,000 to 800,000. >> >> What is the user asked to do with 800,000 lines of data? >> >> That is, does this need to be displayed? >> >> >> >> Is the data displayed in list fields, or must the line wraps be >> >> calculated? >> > >> > The wrapped line field is locked and doesnt change after import >> > and is unaffected by the keyword-containing-lines process. I >> > suppose a good question is are line wraps recalculated on navigation >> > to the card. >> >> I'd guess that the card record is unpacked before rendering, which would include the controls, such as fields, and their contents. >> >> -- >> Richard Gaskin >> Fourth World Systems From dfe4 at cornell.edu Mon Apr 18 12:44:13 2022 From: dfe4 at cornell.edu (David Epstein) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2022 12:44:13 -0400 Subject: Using LiveCode with Mac Photos App References: Message-ID: I want to allow selection of some images from my Mac Photos library and show them as “referenced” images in a LiveCode stack. Is there an efficient way to do this? What would be great is to open Photos, drag images from there to my LiveCode stack, and record in LiveCode the file location of the original image. But this seems not to work from within Photos, only with images that have been exported (e.g., I can drag exported images from my desktop to a LiveCode stack and get the dragData[“files”]). Is there any way from within Photos to gain access to the file locations for convenient use by LiveCode? David Epstein From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Apr 18 12:48:47 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2022 09:48:47 -0700 Subject: Using LiveCode with Mac Photos App In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: David Epstein wrote: > Is there any way from within Photos to gain access to the file > locations for convenient use by LiveCode? Apple's Photos app stores all the metadata in an SQLite file, no? If so, you may be able to poke around in the DB file directly. If Apple prevents that, you may be able to query it via AppleScript. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From dvglasgow at gmail.com Mon Apr 18 13:09:42 2022 From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David Glasgow) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2022 18:09:42 +0100 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: <9b0e6cd0-219b-8bcd-7089-62cdfd1025e4@fourthworld.com> References: <91D0C81F-5764-43D7-A1DD-5A8DAC8858EA@starfirelighting.com> <9b0e6cd0-219b-8bcd-7089-62cdfd1025e4@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <3ECC1BFA-7D13-4EBF-A2E4-1902146C599C@gmail.com> Sorry for belated response. Easter visitors. The user just initiates the automatic filtering for various keywords. Once completed, the original imported text (field 1) remains in its original form so that the user can click on a line in field 2 (i.e identified as containing a specific word or phrase) and then the text is selected and displayed in field 1 in its original context. That works really well. I’m happy with a medium term option to explore using datagrids, but I am still intrigued that placing the groups containing fields on navigated-from-cards eliminates the delay in transition. Best Wishes, David Glasgow Honorary Professor, Nottingham Trent University Sexual Offences, Crime and Misconduct Research Unit Consultant Forensic & Clinical Psychologist Carlton Glasgow Partnership Director, Child & Family Training, York LinkedIn > On 18 Apr 2022, at 5:42 pm, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > Yes, there are many ways to explore HOW to display data. My question is WHY. > > Or more specifically, "What is the user asked to do with the data?" > > If we solve the display challenge without considering the user task, the user task remains unaddressed. > > But if we craft the UI to support the user task, I suspect the display question will resolve itself. > > Maybe. Or maybe not. We'll find out when David returns to this thread to tell us about the user task. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > > > > Craig Newman wrote: >> I think on the forum a few years ago we played with a gadget that only displayed a small number of lines of a very large dataset. That would perhaps allow a table field to be used without having to learn all about dataGrids. I will try to find that discussion. >> Not that it is not a good idea to at least use the basics of a DG as a standard tool as a matter of course. >> Craig >>> On Apr 17, 2022, at 9:48 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >>> David V Glasgow wrote: >>> > On 16 Apr 2022, at 8:20 pm, Richard Gaskin wrote: >>> >> >>> >> How many is "many many thousands of lines"? 10k? 100k? More? >>> > >>> > Typically 30,000 to 800,000. >>> What is the user asked to do with 800,000 lines of data? >>> That is, does this need to be displayed? >>> >> Is the data displayed in list fields, or must the line wraps be >>> >> calculated? >>> > >>> > The wrapped line field is locked and doesn’t change after import >>> > and is unaffected by the keyword-containing-lines process. I >>> > suppose a good question is are line wraps recalculated on navigation >>> > to the card. >>> I'd guess that the card record is unpacked before rendering, which would include the controls, such as fields, and their contents. >>> -- >>> Richard Gaskin >>> Fourth World Systems > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon Apr 18 13:52:12 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2022 17:52:12 +0000 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: <3ECC1BFA-7D13-4EBF-A2E4-1902146C599C@gmail.com> References: <91D0C81F-5764-43D7-A1DD-5A8DAC8858EA@starfirelighting.com> <9b0e6cd0-219b-8bcd-7089-62cdfd1025e4@fourthworld.com> <3ECC1BFA-7D13-4EBF-A2E4-1902146C599C@gmail.com> Message-ID: <52507466-0098-4D32-AEFA-86B8E4467734@iotecdigital.com> Do you mean you made a group of the fields containing data, then used "Place Group" from the Objects menu on the summary card? If that is what you mean, then it stands to reason that all the work LC has to do in displaying what is now a Background Group on both cards which contains the very voluminous fields, is already done. Bob S > On Apr 18, 2022, at 10:09 , David Glasgow via use-livecode wrote: > > Sorry for belated response. Easter visitors. > > The user just initiates the automatic filtering for various keywords. Once completed, the original imported text (field 1) remains in its original form so that the user can click on a line in field 2 (i.e identified as containing a specific word or phrase) and then the text is selected and displayed in field 1 in its original context. That works really well. > > I’m happy with a medium term option to explore using datagrids, but I am still intrigued that placing the groups containing fields on navigated-from-cards eliminates the delay in transition. > > Best Wishes, > > David Glasgow > Honorary Professor, Nottingham Trent University > Sexual Offences, Crime and Misconduct Research Unit > Consultant Forensic & Clinical Psychologist > Carlton Glasgow Partnership > Director, Child & Family Training, York From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Apr 18 14:02:07 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2022 11:02:07 -0700 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: <3ECC1BFA-7D13-4EBF-A2E4-1902146C599C@gmail.com> References: <3ECC1BFA-7D13-4EBF-A2E4-1902146C599C@gmail.com> Message-ID: <04225b03-dec3-262b-0738-e655e04d0c20@fourthworld.com> David Glasgow wrote: > The user just initiates the automatic filtering for various keywords. What does that mean? What actions do they perform requiring them to review the full list? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From dvglasgow at gmail.com Tue Apr 19 06:38:08 2022 From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David V Glasgow) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2022 11:38:08 +0100 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: <04225b03-dec3-262b-0738-e655e04d0c20@fourthworld.com> References: <3ECC1BFA-7D13-4EBF-A2E4-1902146C599C@gmail.com> <04225b03-dec3-262b-0738-e655e04d0c20@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <1724CA02-7556-46B8-8A74-AFC474E72620@gmail.com> Maybe context would help. I receive digital evidence from police Hi Tech Crime Units, consisting of lists/tables of messages, search histories, web histories, files downloaded, etc etc. These relate to online activities of alleged internet offenders. Some consist of data relating to a few months activity, others may be 10 years or more - so vary hugely in the sheer quantity of data. This is what is imported into the first field. I have established a number of sets of keywords/tags which can be cycled through using ‘filter with’ to find list items which might indicate particular forms of malign motivation of the alleged offender. So, a user clicks button “Filter with X keywords” looking for, for example, coercive/aggressive tags. All ‘filtered with' lines containing selected tags appear in the second scrolling field. Sometimes nothing much will be found, but sometimes this field may become 50 to 74% the size of the field containing the original imported data. This (second) field can be scrolled and eyeballed until something of forensic significance is spotted. Clicking on that line scrolls the first field to display and highlight the line in its original context (i.e showing preceding and following lines). With respect to Bob’s observation about the work to display a background group being 'already done’ if the navigated-to card contains the background group containing the field, that is pretty much what I assumed is happening. The intriguing question is why the work necessarily is ‘undone’ when navigating to any card not containing the group. Does it consume such significant resources the default is to clear it? It would be nice to be able choose to preserve or cache the work if that has such a significant impact on performance as in this case. Best Wishes, David Glasgow > On 18 Apr 2022, at 7:02 pm, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > David Glasgow wrote: > > > The user just initiates the automatic filtering for various keywords. > > What does that mean? What actions do they perform requiring them to review the full list? > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From craig at starfirelighting.com Tue Apr 19 10:47:11 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2022 10:47:11 -0400 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: <1724CA02-7556-46B8-8A74-AFC474E72620@gmail.com> References: <3ECC1BFA-7D13-4EBF-A2E4-1902146C599C@gmail.com> <04225b03-dec3-262b-0738-e655e04d0c20@fourthworld.com> <1724CA02-7556-46B8-8A74-AFC474E72620@gmail.com> Message-ID: <9A208CEA-D52E-4E4E-90CC-0BA1A3699ADF@starfirelighting.com> Dave. I played around a bit with a field on a card that has 100,000 lines of text and an overall length of 5 Meg. There is not question that such a well-packed field is sluggish in several ways. Just try to make it wider using the pointer tool. But a simple mouseUp handler in the field takes the value of the clickLine and loads it into a field on a different card. The process is instantaneous. What does your setup have that mine does not, so that you are seeing intolerable delays? Craig > On Apr 19, 2022, at 6:38 AM, David V Glasgow via use-livecode wrote: > > Maybe context would help. I receive digital evidence from police Hi Tech Crime Units, consisting of lists/tables of messages, search histories, web histories, files downloaded, etc etc. These relate to online activities of alleged internet offenders. Some consist of data relating to a few months activity, others may be 10 years or more - so vary hugely in the sheer quantity of data. This is what is imported into the first field. > > I have established a number of sets of keywords/tags which can be cycled through using ‘filter with’ to find list items which might indicate particular forms of malign motivation of the alleged offender. So, a user clicks button “Filter with X keywords” looking for, for example, coercive/aggressive tags. > > All ‘filtered with' lines containing selected tags appear in the second scrolling field. Sometimes nothing much will be found, but sometimes this field may become 50 to 74% the size of the field containing the original imported data. This (second) field can be scrolled and eyeballed until something of forensic significance is spotted. Clicking on that line scrolls the first field to display and highlight the line in its original context (i.e showing preceding and following lines). > > With respect to Bob’s observation about the work to display a background group being 'already done’ if the navigated-to card contains the background group containing the field, that is pretty much what I assumed is happening. The intriguing question is why the work necessarily is ‘undone’ when navigating to any card not containing the group. Does it consume such significant resources the default is to clear it? It would be nice to be able choose to preserve or cache the work if that has such a significant impact on performance as in this case. > > Best Wishes, > > David Glasgow > > >> On 18 Apr 2022, at 7:02 pm, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >> >> David Glasgow wrote: >> >>> The user just initiates the automatic filtering for various keywords. >> >> What does that mean? What actions do they perform requiring them to review the full list? >> >> -- >> Richard Gaskin >> Fourth World Systems >> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web >> ____________________________________________________________________ >> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From craig at starfirelighting.com Tue Apr 19 10:50:22 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2022 10:50:22 -0400 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: <9A208CEA-D52E-4E4E-90CC-0BA1A3699ADF@starfirelighting.com> References: <3ECC1BFA-7D13-4EBF-A2E4-1902146C599C@gmail.com> <04225b03-dec3-262b-0738-e655e04d0c20@fourthworld.com> <1724CA02-7556-46B8-8A74-AFC474E72620@gmail.com> <9A208CEA-D52E-4E4E-90CC-0BA1A3699ADF@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: I do see that navigating BACK to the card with the packed field takes almost two seconds. Craig > On Apr 19, 2022, at 10:47 AM, Craig Newman wrote: > > Dave. > > I played around a bit with a field on a card that has 100,000 lines of text and an overall length of 5 Meg. There is not question that such a well-packed field is sluggish in several ways. Just try to make it wider using the pointer tool. > > But a simple mouseUp handler in the field takes the value of the clickLine and loads it into a field on a different card. The process is instantaneous. What does your setup have that mine does not, so that you are seeing intolerable delays? > > Craig > >> On Apr 19, 2022, at 6:38 AM, David V Glasgow via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Maybe context would help. I receive digital evidence from police Hi Tech Crime Units, consisting of lists/tables of messages, search histories, web histories, files downloaded, etc etc. These relate to online activities of alleged internet offenders. Some consist of data relating to a few months activity, others may be 10 years or more - so vary hugely in the sheer quantity of data. This is what is imported into the first field. >> >> I have established a number of sets of keywords/tags which can be cycled through using ‘filter with’ to find list items which might indicate particular forms of malign motivation of the alleged offender. So, a user clicks button “Filter with X keywords” looking for, for example, coercive/aggressive tags. >> >> All ‘filtered with' lines containing selected tags appear in the second scrolling field. Sometimes nothing much will be found, but sometimes this field may become 50 to 74% the size of the field containing the original imported data. This (second) field can be scrolled and eyeballed until something of forensic significance is spotted. Clicking on that line scrolls the first field to display and highlight the line in its original context (i.e showing preceding and following lines). >> >> With respect to Bob’s observation about the work to display a background group being 'already done’ if the navigated-to card contains the background group containing the field, that is pretty much what I assumed is happening. The intriguing question is why the work necessarily is ‘undone’ when navigating to any card not containing the group. Does it consume such significant resources the default is to clear it? It would be nice to be able choose to preserve or cache the work if that has such a significant impact on performance as in this case. >> >> Best Wishes, >> >> David Glasgow >> >> >>> On 18 Apr 2022, at 7:02 pm, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> David Glasgow wrote: >>> >>>> The user just initiates the automatic filtering for various keywords. >>> >>> What does that mean? What actions do they perform requiring them to review the full list? >>> >>> -- >>> Richard Gaskin >>> Fourth World Systems >>> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web >>> ____________________________________________________________________ >>> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dvglasgow at gmail.com Tue Apr 19 11:53:21 2022 From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David V Glasgow) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2022 16:53:21 +0100 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: References: <3ECC1BFA-7D13-4EBF-A2E4-1902146C599C@gmail.com> <04225b03-dec3-262b-0738-e655e04d0c20@fourthworld.com> <1724CA02-7556-46B8-8A74-AFC474E72620@gmail.com> <9A208CEA-D52E-4E4E-90CC-0BA1A3699ADF@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: That is exactly it, Craig! Text processing and field responsivity on the card containing the fields are as fast as I could hope. It is simply navigating back to the card containing the fields that can take several seconds, depending on how much text is in the fields. The workaround is to have invisible groups containing the field(s) placed on the card you are navigating from. I assume that the text has to be shared, but I haven’t actually tested that. Best Wishes, David Glasgow > On 19 Apr 2022, at 3:50 pm, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: > > I do see that navigating BACK to the card with the packed field takes almost two seconds. > > Craig From craig at starfirelighting.com Tue Apr 19 13:13:18 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2022 13:13:18 -0400 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: References: <3ECC1BFA-7D13-4EBF-A2E4-1902146C599C@gmail.com> <04225b03-dec3-262b-0738-e655e04d0c20@fourthworld.com> <1724CA02-7556-46B8-8A74-AFC474E72620@gmail.com> <9A208CEA-D52E-4E4E-90CC-0BA1A3699ADF@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: <18DF99F8-6BC8-46A7-9E75-00080CC226CB@starfirelighting.com> David. OK. So why not rethink the structure overall. I hate thinking at all, so rethinking is abhorrent, but oftentimes saves much grief. I wish I was on the forum, but here goes. I made a button that: - gets the value of the clickLine as before - hides the big field - loads that information into another field on the same card. Another button shows the big field again All instantaneous. Craig > On Apr 19, 2022, at 11:53 AM, David V Glasgow via use-livecode wrote: > > That is exactly it, Craig! Text processing and field responsivity on the card containing the fields are as fast as I could hope. > > It is simply navigating back to the card containing the fields that can take several seconds, depending on how much text is in the fields. The workaround is to have invisible groups containing the field(s) placed on the card you are navigating from. I assume that the text has to be shared, but I haven’t actually tested that. > > Best Wishes, > > David Glasgow > > >> On 19 Apr 2022, at 3:50 pm, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: >> >> I do see that navigating BACK to the card with the packed field takes almost two seconds. >> >> Craig > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From craig at starfirelighting.com Tue Apr 19 13:48:41 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2022 13:48:41 -0400 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: <18DF99F8-6BC8-46A7-9E75-00080CC226CB@starfirelighting.com> References: <3ECC1BFA-7D13-4EBF-A2E4-1902146C599C@gmail.com> <04225b03-dec3-262b-0738-e655e04d0c20@fourthworld.com> <1724CA02-7556-46B8-8A74-AFC474E72620@gmail.com> <9A208CEA-D52E-4E4E-90CC-0BA1A3699ADF@starfirelighting.com> <18DF99F8-6BC8-46A7-9E75-00080CC226CB@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: David, Likely does not matter, but I misspoke. A mouseUp handler in the large locked field: - gets the value of the clickLine - hides the large field (itself) - shows a secondary field - loads information in that field. Clicking on the secondary field does the reverse in terms of showing/hiding.. All this is basic stuff, but the time delay goes away. So navigating to other cards can be simulated by extracting and loading data on controls on the same card. The old HC “Rolodex" paradigm was attractive and comforting, and still has its uses. But HC could not support fields of greater than 32K, so this delay issue never came up. Also, HC could easily support many more cards than LC can. Craig > On Apr 19, 2022, at 1:13 PM, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: > > David. > > OK. So why not rethink the structure overall. I hate thinking at all, so rethinking is abhorrent, but oftentimes saves much grief. > > I wish I was on the forum, but here goes. > > I made a button that: > > - gets the value of the clickLine as before > - hides the big field > - loads that information into another field on the same card. > > Another button shows the big field again > > All instantaneous. > > Craig > >> On Apr 19, 2022, at 11:53 AM, David V Glasgow via use-livecode wrote: >> >> That is exactly it, Craig! Text processing and field responsivity on the card containing the fields are as fast as I could hope. >> >> It is simply navigating back to the card containing the fields that can take several seconds, depending on how much text is in the fields. The workaround is to have invisible groups containing the field(s) placed on the card you are navigating from. I assume that the text has to be shared, but I haven’t actually tested that. >> >> Best Wishes, >> >> David Glasgow >> >> >>> On 19 Apr 2022, at 3:50 pm, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> I do see that navigating BACK to the card with the packed field takes almost two seconds. >>> >>> Craig >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed Apr 20 08:56:00 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2022 08:56:00 -0400 Subject: Pixel 5 In-Reply-To: <18036129870.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <359a6dca-ef11-76d1-7307-08737cad86eb@hyperactivesw.com> <09364CD0-144A-4569-80C9-ABE0B1F55508@gmail.com> <18036129870.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: I am on my second droid phone, and I agree, I probably could never go back - but, for corporate app deployment and deployment, ios is happier place. On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 1:51 AM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > You don't know what you're missing. :) There's so little freedom over on > the other side. I could never go back. > > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > On April 16, 2022 10:07:48 PM doc hawk via use-livecode > wrote: > > > For some reason, I feel a sudden urge to sprinkle my doorstep with Holy > > Water . . . > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Apr 20 15:43:44 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2022 12:43:44 -0700 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: <1724CA02-7556-46B8-8A74-AFC474E72620@gmail.com> References: <1724CA02-7556-46B8-8A74-AFC474E72620@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8aeca18a-0154-f00d-98ad-0b96005f70e6@fourthworld.com> Thank you, David. That does indeed help a lot. Very interesting task, actually. Very glad to have read that. In most workflows there's little need to display such long lists for users to wade through. But in your case it's clear that the nature of the work requires laborious review of details, so even a super-long list is not a design problem at all, but arguably essential. That said, if I understand this correctly, only the subset of records that first match the search criteria will need to be reviewed - is that correct? If it is, you can omit the display of the first list, enjoying not only ending the need to have that field's rendering eat up time, but also the speed boost from handling that data in a variable. But the results list does need to be displayed. And since that list may be long, I concur with those who have recommended the DataGrid as a solution. Sure, it takes a little setup, but the payoff is that it will only render what can be viewed on screen at any given time, which should give you the smooth card-to-card speed you're looking for. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems David V Glasgow wrote: > Maybe context would help. I receive digital evidence from police Hi Tech Crime Units, consisting of lists/tables of messages, search histories, web histories, files downloaded, etc etc. These relate to online activities of alleged internet offenders. Some consist of data relating to a few months activity, others may be 10 years or more - so vary hugely in the sheer quantity of data. This is what is imported into the first field. > > I have established a number of sets of keywords/tags which can be cycled through using filter with to find list items which might indicate particular forms of malign motivation of the alleged offender. So, a user clicks button Filter with X keywords looking for, for example, coercive/aggressive tags. > > All filtered with' lines containing selected tags appear in the second scrolling field. Sometimes nothing much will be found, but sometimes this field may become 50 to 74% the size of the field containing the original imported data. This (second) field can be scrolled and eyeballed until something of forensic significance is spotted. Clicking on that line scrolls the first field to display and highlight the line in its original context (i.e showing preceding and following lines). > > With respect to Bobs observation about the work to display a background group being 'already done if the navigated-to card contains the background group containing the field, that is pretty much what I assumed is happening. The intriguing question is why the work necessarily is undone when navigating to any card not containing the group. Does it consume such significant resources the default is to clear it? It would be nice to be able choose to preserve or cache the work if that has such a significant impact on performance as in this case. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Apr 20 17:58:47 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2022 14:58:47 -0700 Subject: Pixel 5 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8bc50292-b596-aeaa-d56f-46c400f8f18c@fourthworld.com> Mike Kerner wrote: > I am on my second droid phone, and I agree, I probably could never > go back - but, for corporate app deployment and deployment, ios is > happier place. What have I been missing? Last time I did native mobile Apple was still making devs jump through hoops just to install apps that aren't even going into their app store. On Android we just turn off the sideloading protection, install, and turn it back on again - no handholding/gatekeeping from the OS provider needed, no contact with them needed at all. All this time I thought Apple's message for orgs making apps for internal use was to use Android. I sometimes do medical apps, where iOS is strongly represented. I'd love it if Apple has a way to beat Android for ease of deployment. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems From irog at mac.com Wed Apr 20 18:46:14 2022 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2022 15:46:14 -0700 Subject: Splash Method of Saving Data Message-ID: <4FB585A7-704A-4D64-8FDA-4112E2BF420F@mac.com> I am so sorry for bring this up again, but I just can’t find relevant information. In the good ol days one could build Mac, Windows and Unix standalones apps using the splash screen method to open substacks thereby saving data in the substacks. This Doesn’t seem to work anymore! I see there is a lesson for saving Custom Properties using this method but I need to save other data like new graphics in the substack. Help please… Thanks, Roger From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Apr 20 19:32:52 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2022 18:32:52 -0500 Subject: Pixel 5 In-Reply-To: <8bc50292-b596-aeaa-d56f-46c400f8f18c@fourthworld.com> References: <8bc50292-b596-aeaa-d56f-46c400f8f18c@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On 4/20/22 4:58 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > All this time I thought Apple's message for orgs making apps for internal use was to use > Android. I sometimes do medical apps, where iOS is strongly represented. I'd love it if Apple > has a way to beat Android for ease of deployment. The best you can do is to use Apple's corporate distribution. It allows up to a certain number of employees who can install your app in-house. The license is expensive. For people like us, no dice. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From irog at mac.com Wed Apr 20 19:49:28 2022 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2022 16:49:28 -0700 Subject: Splash Method of Saving Data In-Reply-To: <4FB585A7-704A-4D64-8FDA-4112E2BF420F@mac.com> References: <4FB585A7-704A-4D64-8FDA-4112E2BF420F@mac.com> Message-ID: <532707BC-6AF7-46C4-8AD7-700E90E4D284@mac.com> Never mind, I think I found my mistake. Roger > On Apr 20, 2022, at 3:46 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: > > I am so sorry for bring this up again, but I just can’t find relevant information. In the good ol days one could build Mac, Windows and Unix standalones apps using the splash screen method to open substacks thereby saving data in the substacks. This Doesn’t seem to work anymore! I see there is a lesson for saving Custom Properties using this method but I need to save other data like new graphics in the substack. Help please… > > Thanks, > > Roger > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jiml at netrin.com Wed Apr 20 21:23:24 2022 From: jiml at netrin.com (Jim Lambert) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2022 18:23:24 -0700 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > DavidG wrote: > That is exactly it, Craig! Text processing and field responsivity on the card containing the fields are as fast as I could hope. > > It is simply navigating back to the card containing the fields that can take several seconds, depending on how much text is in the fields. The workaround is to have invisible groups containing the field(s) placed on the card you are navigating from. Here's another possibility. Instead of using multiple cards, do the whole interface on a single card. Have different groups on that single card, each of which does the job of one of the eliminated cards. In that way you NEVER NAVIGATE away from your data fields. They are simple present in a now hidden group. For example, let's say your stack currently has 5 cards. Card #1 is the card with the two data fields you describe. Put those fields and any other interface elements currently on that card into Group #1 of the card. Put the contents of cards 2 thru 5 into groups #2 thru 5 on card #1. Hide and show groups where you previously navigated between cards. Jim Lambert From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au Wed Apr 20 23:29:45 2022 From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2022 03:29:45 +0000 Subject: Pixel 5 In-Reply-To: <8bc50292-b596-aeaa-d56f-46c400f8f18c@fourthworld.com> References: <8bc50292-b596-aeaa-d56f-46c400f8f18c@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: I haven’t done any iOS apps for a little while but when I was - using an enterprise developer license - getting iOS apps onto our users’ (students and staff) phones was easy as. The hardest thing was finding a server to host the files (ipa, plist etc.) on. Terry.. From: use-livecode on behalf of Richard Gaskin via use-livecode Date: Thursday, 21 April 2022 at 8:00 am To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Cc: Richard Gaskin Subject: Re: Pixel 5 Mike Kerner wrote: > I am on my second droid phone, and I agree, I probably could never > go back - but, for corporate app deployment and deployment, ios is > happier place. What have I been missing? Last time I did native mobile Apple was still making devs jump through hoops just to install apps that aren't even going into their app store. On Android we just turn off the sideloading protection, install, and turn it back on again - no handholding/gatekeeping from the OS provider needed, no contact with them needed at all. All this time I thought Apple's message for orgs making apps for internal use was to use Android. I sometimes do medical apps, where iOS is strongly represented. I'd love it if Apple has a way to beat Android for ease of deployment. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dvglasgow at gmail.com Thu Apr 21 07:50:17 2022 From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David V Glasgow) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2022 12:50:17 +0100 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <04EA7145-B760-4E78-9BDC-FAB3BEE11ACC@gmail.com> Thanks to all who responded on this. I will definitely take a look at Datagrids as a possible solution. Both Phil and Jim suggested avoiding navigation completely …. which I will also investigate. Cheers David G > On 21 Apr 2022, at 2:23 am, Jim Lambert via use-livecode wrote: > >> DavidG wrote: >> That is exactly it, Craig! Text processing and field responsivity on the card containing the fields are as fast as I could hope. >> >> It is simply navigating back to the card containing the fields that can take several seconds, depending on how much text is in the fields. The workaround is to have invisible groups containing the field(s) placed on the card you are navigating from. > > Here's another possibility. > Instead of using multiple cards, do the whole interface on a single card. > Have different groups on that single card, each of which does the job of one of the eliminated cards. > In that way you NEVER NAVIGATE away from your data fields. They are simple present in a now hidden group. > > For example, let's say your stack currently has 5 cards. > Card #1 is the card with the two data fields you describe. > Put those fields and any other interface elements currently on that card into Group #1 of the card. > Put the contents of cards 2 thru 5 into groups #2 thru 5 on card #1. > Hide and show groups where you previously navigated between cards. > > Jim Lambert > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Apr 21 11:22:11 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2022 15:22:11 +0000 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick In-Reply-To: <04EA7145-B760-4E78-9BDC-FAB3BEE11ACC@gmail.com> References: <04EA7145-B760-4E78-9BDC-FAB3BEE11ACC@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0491A05F-84A2-435A-A925-D34A0FD3771D@iotecdigital.com> Let me know off list if you want to have a look at the handlers I have written for getting data from a datagrid array into a memory database and back again so your queries can be more efficient. Bob S > On Apr 21, 2022, at 04:50 , David V Glasgow via use-livecode wrote: > > > Thanks to all who responded on this. I will definitely take a look at Datagrids as a possible solution. Both Phil and Jim suggested avoiding navigation completely …. which I will also investigate. > > Cheers > > David G > >> On 21 Apr 2022, at 2:23 am, Jim Lambert via use-livecode wrote: >> >>> DavidG wrote: >>> That is exactly it, Craig! Text processing and field responsivity on the card containing the fields are as fast as I could hope. >>> >>> It is simply navigating back to the card containing the fields that can take several seconds, depending on how much text is in the fields. The workaround is to have invisible groups containing the field(s) placed on the card you are navigating from. >> >> Here's another possibility. >> Instead of using multiple cards, do the whole interface on a single card. >> Have different groups on that single card, each of which does the job of one of the eliminated cards. >> In that way you NEVER NAVIGATE away from your data fields. They are simple present in a now hidden group. >> >> For example, let's say your stack currently has 5 cards. >> Card #1 is the card with the two data fields you describe. >> Put those fields and any other interface elements currently on that card into Group #1 of the card. >> Put the contents of cards 2 thru 5 into groups #2 thru 5 on card #1. >> Hide and show groups where you previously navigated between cards. >> >> Jim Lambert >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Thu Apr 21 11:55:31 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2022 11:55:31 -0400 Subject: optionKeyDown message broken Message-ID: <76a263e1-96b4-cbdf-3f64-bf87269182ac@researchware.com> I am finding problems with the optionKeyDown handler on both Windows (where it's the ALT key) and macOS (OPTION key). This is in Livecode 9.6.7 STABLE under macOS Mojave and Windows 10 In a new stack, place the following in the card script: on optionKeyDown pKeyName   if platform() = "MacOS" then     put numToChar(charToNum(pKeyName)-128) into tKey1 -- original sample from Dictionary     put numToCodePoint(codepointToNum(pKeyName)-128) into tKey2 -- trying using non-deprecated functions     answer pKeyName,tKey1,tKey2   else -- windows     answer pKeyName   end if end optionKeyDown On macOS, the LC 9.6.7 Dictionary shows the need to strip the "high" bit off the character to get the letter of the key pressed, for example, OPTION-F produces The above script on macOS produces for OPTION-F the following , D, Where as what you want for either tKey1 or tKey2 to be "F" the key pressed with OPTION-F I think this is a case where the Dictionary entry for optionKeyDown (for macOS) needs to be updated with a formula that works since LC was updated to Unicode with version 7 "High" ASCII macOS characters are now UNicode and not the same character codes. But Wait. Windows is even worse This code on Windows does not produce a letter of any sort. It produces  As soon as you press the ALT key, before you can even press ALT-F, this script displays 65513 in the answer dialog. This, I believe is the RAW key code for the ALT key! In other words, the optionKeyDown message is not sending the key pressed as a letter/character as the dictionary says and the parameter passed to the optionKeyDown message is the code for the ALT key itself (which makes no sense). Could enough folks on this list conform both the macOS and Windows errors, so I can log a bug with LiveCode? I am not looking for work-around (I can do that if I have to), just for confirmation that these are bugs. The macOS can be resolved by a better method for mapping macOS "high-ASCII" characters, now mapped to Unicode in LC, back to the ASCII key characters pressed. The Windows may not have a work-around as, according to the dictionary, keyDown/keyUp messages are not passed in Control or Alt keys are down, the commandKeyDown, optionKetDown messages are sent instead, so you can using a keyDown handler and check for the altKey() = "down" condition. Perhaps rawKeyDown... From craig at starfirelighting.com Thu Apr 21 13:04:46 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2022 13:04:46 -0400 Subject: optionKeyDown message broken In-Reply-To: <76a263e1-96b4-cbdf-3f64-bf87269182ac@researchware.com> References: <76a263e1-96b4-cbdf-3f64-bf87269182ac@researchware.com> Message-ID: Have not played with your handler, but why not just: on rawKeyDown tKey if the optionkey is down then answer numToChar(tkey) end rawKeyDown Craig > On Apr 21, 2022, at 11:55 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > > on optionKeyDown pKeyName > if platform() = "MacOS" then > put numToChar(charToNum(pKeyName)-128) into tKey1 -- original sample from Dictionary > put numToCodePoint(codepointToNum(pKeyName)-128) into tKey2 -- trying using non-deprecated functions > answer pKeyName,tKey1,tKey2 > else -- windows > answer pKeyName > end if > end optionKeyDown From paul at researchware.com Thu Apr 21 14:16:53 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2022 14:16:53 -0400 Subject: optionKeyDown message broken In-Reply-To: References: <76a263e1-96b4-cbdf-3f64-bf87269182ac@researchware.com> Message-ID: <0a4055d6-145f-2317-1943-fd7c85ad080f@researchware.com> Yes, there are work-arounds. My post was about confirming the bug so I can report it to Livecode. In this case, we have a shipping application in which the optionKeyDown handler USED to work that now a customer has (correctly) reported it broken. If everyone just codes work-arounds and bugs are never reported, then the bugs will never get fixed. Sorry, a long frustrating day. On 4/21/2022 1:04 PM, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: > Have not played with your handler, but why not just: > > on rawKeyDown tKey > > if the optionkey is down then answer numToChar(tkey) > > end rawKeyDown > > > Craig > >> On Apr 21, 2022, at 11:55 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: >> >> on optionKeyDown pKeyName >> if platform() = "MacOS" then >> put numToChar(charToNum(pKeyName)-128) into tKey1 -- original sample from Dictionary >> put numToCodePoint(codepointToNum(pKeyName)-128) into tKey2 -- trying using non-deprecated functions >> answer pKeyName,tKey1,tKey2 >> else -- windows >> answer pKeyName >> end if >> end optionKeyDown > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Apr 21 15:27:40 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2022 14:27:40 -0500 Subject: optionKeyDown message broken In-Reply-To: <76a263e1-96b4-cbdf-3f64-bf87269182ac@researchware.com> References: <76a263e1-96b4-cbdf-3f64-bf87269182ac@researchware.com> Message-ID: <578444fa-b460-ef07-4e28-5130d692dbc8@hyperactivesw.com> On 4/21/22 10:55 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > In a new stack, place the following in the card script: > > on optionKeyDown pKeyName >   if platform() = "MacOS" then >     put numToChar(charToNum(pKeyName)-128) into tKey1 -- original sample from Dictionary >     put numToCodePoint(codepointToNum(pKeyName)-128) into tKey2 -- trying using non-deprecated > functions >     answer pKeyName,tKey1,tKey2 >   else -- windows >     answer pKeyName >   end if > end optionKeyDown The equivalent new functions for numToChar and charToNum is numToNativeChar and nativeCharToNum. Those return the same values as the originals. However, I'm still getting the wrong result. I can subtract 94 to get lower-case "f" but that isn't consistent; the amount to subtract varies depending on the value of pKeyName. So there's some trick I'm missing. Tested on Mac. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From paul at researchware.com Thu Apr 21 16:19:50 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2022 16:19:50 -0400 Subject: optionKeyDown message broken In-Reply-To: <578444fa-b460-ef07-4e28-5130d692dbc8@hyperactivesw.com> References: <76a263e1-96b4-cbdf-3f64-bf87269182ac@researchware.com> <578444fa-b460-ef07-4e28-5130d692dbc8@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <1c71a1a7-b4af-53af-d28f-df2e60fc17e3@researchware.com> On 4/21/2022 3:27 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > On 4/21/22 10:55 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: >> In a new stack, place the following in the card script: >> >> on optionKeyDown pKeyName >>    if platform() = "MacOS" then >>      put numToChar(charToNum(pKeyName)-128) into tKey1 -- original >> sample from Dictionary >>      put numToCodePoint(codepointToNum(pKeyName)-128) into tKey2 -- >> trying using non-deprecated functions >>      answer pKeyName,tKey1,tKey2 >>    else -- windows >>      answer pKeyName >>    end if >> end optionKeyDown > > The equivalent new functions for numToChar and charToNum is > numToNativeChar and nativeCharToNum. Those return the same values as > the originals. However, I'm still getting the wrong result. I can > subtract 94 to get lower-case "f" but that isn't consistent; the > amount to subtract varies depending on the value of pKeyName. So > there's some trick I'm missing. > > Tested on Mac. > Thank you for verifying macOS! I did not know about numToNativeChar and nativeCharToNum so thanks for that also. However, after looking at a decimal table of MacRoman, the suggested formula to remove the "high-bit" in the Dictionary will NEVER work no matter what functions are used. The high-ASCII characters of MAcROman (bytes 128 to 255) do not correspond to any alphabetical range. In other words, the numerical equivalent of OPTION-A through OPTION-Z is not in sequential order. You would either have to code it as: on optionDownKey pKey   if platform() = "MacOS" then     if pKey = "" then put "f" in tKey -- MacRoman byte 196 (OPTION-F is pressed)     if pKey = "" then put "x" in tKey -- MacRoman byte 197 (is NOT OPTION-G (expected if in alphabetical order and you could just do math to get the ASCII key character), but is OPTION-X) In my opinion, this makes the optionKeyDown handler on macOS next to useless and it is far more intuitive from a develop and code documentation perspective if the letter of the key pressed in conjunction with the OPTOPN key was returned. And, of course, you can work around this with a rawKeyDown or rawKeyUp handler, but I would consider the state of optionKeyDown on macOS defective. From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Apr 21 16:58:58 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2022 20:58:58 +0000 Subject: :memory: heads up Message-ID: <49B6665E-EE39-4A68-B709-CDBD981FC8DF@iotecdigital.com> Hi all. I just wanted to alert anyone working with memory databases. Normally when you call revOpenDatabase("sqLite", filename) it will open the sqLite database with all the tables and data intact. HOWEVER... If you do this with ":memory:" instead of a filename then EACH TIME you call revOpenDatabase() it will create a NEW MEMORY DATABASE! I had no idea this was possible. I don't see anything in the dictionary about it. In fact, :memory: does not even show up in the dictionary! LOL! I had to update my arrayToSQLite handler with an additional parameter, pDBID, and I only call revOpenDatabase() if that parameter is empty. Here is an updated version in case anyone is using it (however unlikely) : /* The following function will attempt to open a database passed in pDBFile, which should be the full path to an sqLite database file, or else a memory database. It will then *attempt* to drop the table passed in pDBName. It will leave other tables intact, so tables can be added and dropped as needed by calling this function. pArrayDataA must be a 2 dimensional numbered array, such as the kind used by datagrids. Nested arrays are not supported. provide pDBID if there is already a memory database open. */ FUNCTION arrayToSQLite pArrayDataA, pDBFile, pDBName, pDBID put the keys of pArrayDataA into tArrayKeys sort tArrayKeys numeric ascending IF pDBFile is empty THEN put ":memory:" into pDBFile IF pDBName is empty THEN put "arraydata" into pDBName TRY if pDBID is empty then \ put revOpenDatabase("sqlite", pDBFile) into pDBID IF "Error" is in pDBID THEN return empty END IF put "drop table " & pDBName into tDropSQL revExecuteSQL pDBID, tDropSQL put the result into tResult CATCH tError answer tError IF the environment is "development" THEN exit to top ELSE quit END TRY -- create the table put "create table" && quote & pDBName & quote \ & cr into tCreateCommand put "(" & quote & "recordid" & quote && "NUMERIC PRIMARY KEY UNIQUE, " \ & cr AFTER tCreateCommand put the keys of pArrayDataA [1] into tRecordKeyList REPEAT for each line tRecordKey in tRecordKeyList if pArrayDataA [1] [tRecordKey] is an array then put "BLOB" into tColumnType else put VARCHAR into tColumnType end if put quote & tRecordKey & quote && tColumnType & "," && cr AFTER tCreateCommand END REPEAT delete char -3 to -1 of tCreateCommand put ")" AFTER tCreateCommand TRY revExecuteSQL pDBID, tCreateCommand put the result into tResult IF tResult is not 0 THEN breakpoint CATCH tError breakpoint END TRY put 1 into tRecordCounter put "recordid" & cr & tRecordKeyList into tColumns repeat with i = 1 to the number of lines of tColumns put ":" & i into item i of tColumnList end repeat put "(" & tColumnList & ")" into tColumnList -- insert data REPEAT for each line tKey in tArrayKeys put 1 into tColumnCounter put pArrayDataA [tKey] into tRecordDataA put tRecordCounter into tQueryDataA [1] REPEAT for each line tRecordKey in tRecordKeyList add 1 to tColumnCounter if tRecordDataA [tRecordKey] is an array then put arrayEncode(tRecordDataA [tRecordKey]) into tValue else put tRecordDataA [tRecordKey] into tValue end if put tValue into tQueryDataA [tColumnCounter] END REPEAT put "insert into" && pDBName && "VALUES" && tColumnList into tInsertSQL TRY revExecuteSQL pDBID, tInsertSQL, "tQueryDataA" put the result into tResult if the result is not a number then breakpoint CATCH tError breakpoint END TRY add 1 to tRecordCounter END REPEAT return pDBID END arrayToSQLite From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Apr 21 22:52:02 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2022 02:52:02 +0000 Subject: Advantages of Memory based sqLite databases Message-ID: <79D69774-CFDE-49DB-8D1B-579EBC313720@iotecdigital.com> Hi all. Just an exercise in semi-futility here. I was curious about the actual difference in performance between querying a memory based sqLite database, as opposed to querying a mySQL database over a slow (iPhone hotspot) connection. I expected it to be significant, but HOW significant I had no idea. Querying for one record produced a performance ratio of 2600 to 1. Some will say, "Of course! What did you expect?" That is just the point. Many people assume repeated queries of an SQL database over a network to be tolerable, even if the connection is remote. But what if your application needs to make repeated queries? At some point, the overhead of repeated queries will exceed that of querying for all or a subset of the data once, storing it in a memory database, then performing your repeated queries on the memory database instead. I will test this over a LAN connection when I get into work tomorrow, but I expect it to be, if not AS significant, certainly more that one would expect. Just food for thought. Bob S From dochawk at gmail.com Thu Apr 21 23:03:02 2022 From: dochawk at gmail.com (doc hawk) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2022 20:03:02 -0700 Subject: Advantages of Memory based sqLite databases In-Reply-To: <79D69774-CFDE-49DB-8D1B-579EBC313720@iotecdigital.com> References: <79D69774-CFDE-49DB-8D1B-579EBC313720@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: The difference between :memory: and the local hard disk is, in itself, stunning. I initially set up with mysql, and (iirc) disk sqlite. Whether it’s mysql or livecode’s fault, it isn’t (wans’t?) possible to to do a compound transaction to a mysql server. So when I opened a “file” (a couple of tables per debtor for my software), it took *minutes* on a remote server to do what took a couple of seconds for a local sqlite file. And an in-memory database was instantaneous. If you need remote, there is a very many to one difference between Postgres (which can handle a transaction of several hundred queries at once) and mysql (which requires several hundred queries in sequence, with full latency applied to each one). And another huge boost for going to in-memory sqlite. (Don’t believe the bit about simultaneous access to sqlite files, it doesn’t quite work!). So I settled on a remote Postgres, in which I stored the commands to update the in-memory sqlite. The catch, of course, is that livecode never implemented the encrypted connection that Postgres supports out off the box. If I was going to continue, I’d probably go to a local Postgres server on each machine with REPLICATE, and stay with in-memory sqlite—but barring any surprises, I’ll just retire instead. From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Apr 21 23:25:22 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2022 03:25:22 +0000 Subject: Advantages of Memory based sqLite databases In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <909887BA-8F4E-4E85-9612-CE99F56530DB@iotecdigital.com> I made a client server proof of concept which encrypted messages before sending and decrypted them on the other end. The upshot was that I can send an encrypted query string from the client to the server, the server which handles the database connection stuff performs the query, then returns the data as an encoded array, also encrypted of course. It worked a peach. It can be used for anything. Sending Files to a remote server for example. It uses simple sockets for the connection, and I use a unique method for poisoning the payload so it cannot be cracked without having the poison pill, or the antidote as it were. And if you have that, I am likely dead. Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 21, 2022, at 20:04, doc hawk via use-livecode wrote: > > The difference between :memory: and the local hard disk is, in itself, stunning. > > I initially set up with mysql, and (iirc) disk sqlite. > > Whether it’s mysql or livecode’s fault, it isn’t (wans’t?) possible to to do a compound transaction to a mysql server. > > So when I opened a “file” (a couple of tables per debtor for my software), it took *minutes* on a remote server to do what took a couple of seconds for a local sqlite file. > > And an in-memory database was instantaneous. > > If you need remote, there is a very many to one difference between Postgres (which can handle a transaction of several hundred queries at once) and mysql (which requires several hundred queries in sequence, with full latency applied to each one). > > And another huge boost for going to in-memory sqlite. (Don’t believe the bit about simultaneous access to sqlite files, it doesn’t quite work!). > > So I settled on a remote Postgres, in which I stored the commands to update the in-memory sqlite. > > The catch, of course, is that livecode never implemented the encrypted connection that Postgres supports out off the box. > > If I was going to continue, I’d probably go to a local Postgres server on each machine with REPLICATE, and stay with in-memory sqlite—but barring any surprises, I’ll just retire instead. > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Apr 22 11:07:52 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2022 15:07:52 +0000 Subject: Advantages of Memory based sqLite databases In-Reply-To: <79D69774-CFDE-49DB-8D1B-579EBC313720@iotecdigital.com> References: <79D69774-CFDE-49DB-8D1B-579EBC313720@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: So I tested this when I got in the shop this morning. The memory database is roughly 450:1 over an sqLite database on the LAN. That is incredibly significant, if the goal is to start with a certain dataset, then query it over and over. Bob S > On Apr 21, 2022, at 19:52 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi all. > > Just an exercise in semi-futility here. I was curious about the actual difference in performance between querying a memory based sqLite database, as opposed to querying a mySQL database over a slow (iPhone hotspot) connection. I expected it to be significant, but HOW significant I had no idea. > > Querying for one record produced a performance ratio of 2600 to 1. Some will say, "Of course! What did you expect?" That is just the point. Many people assume repeated queries of an SQL database over a network to be tolerable, even if the connection is remote. But what if your application needs to make repeated queries? At some point, the overhead of repeated queries will exceed that of querying for all or a subset of the data once, storing it in a memory database, then performing your repeated queries on the memory database instead. > > I will test this over a LAN connection when I get into work tomorrow, but I expect it to be, if not AS significant, certainly more that one would expect. > > Just food for thought. > > Bob S > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Fri Apr 22 13:07:56 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2022 13:07:56 -0400 Subject: optionKeyDown message broken In-Reply-To: <1c71a1a7-b4af-53af-d28f-df2e60fc17e3@researchware.com> References: <76a263e1-96b4-cbdf-3f64-bf87269182ac@researchware.com> <578444fa-b460-ef07-4e28-5130d692dbc8@hyperactivesw.com> <1c71a1a7-b4af-53af-d28f-df2e60fc17e3@researchware.com> Message-ID: FYI for anyone who is interested: I submitted a bug report for the broken state of the optionKeyDown message. See https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23688 Please follow if you are interested in seeing this fixed. From ahsoftware at sonic.net Fri Apr 22 13:08:24 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2022 10:08:24 -0700 Subject: ANN: PowerDebug 2.3 Message-ID: Hi- It's been some three years since a major new release of PowerDebug, and with the 2022 LiveCode conference right around the corner, I think it's time to release PowerDebug 2.3. NOTE: in order to get responsive speed out of this thing, it's now only backwards-compatible to LiveCode 8.0. What's in the new build: * Much faster, especially viewing array variable elements. Yes... expanding big arrays in debug mode was painful before. Faster code colorization as well. * Faster and more robust standalone debugging. Still works locally or in the same subnet using sockets. Debug standalone applications with two lines of code. * Code profiling. If you don't already have the Pro package from LC, PowerDebug will add a new menuItem to the Development menu to toggle profiling on/off. Note that profiling *will* slow down your code considerably, but PowerDebug will display execution times down to the microsecond. * Improved error reporting, update checking, and more. Note that the usernames and passwords have changed for the new version. The url remains the same, but you'll need the new information to download the new version. And as always, your registration will never expire, so you have access to the latest versions. Documentation is at url: Known issues: LiveCode on Windows still doesn't support the long milliseconds, so I'm extrapolating to microseconds over multiple iterations. I don't have an iPhone or associated Apple developer account to test with, so I can't verify that standalone debugging works on iOS. Any help testing this would be appreciated. As long as iOS supports socket communications I assume this would work, but you never know. NOTE: I announced the new build to registered users earlier but I have several bounced messages. If you've previously registered PowerDebug but haven't gotten an email from me about it, get in touch. You won't be able to grab the new version without updated registration info. From tom at makeshyft.com Fri Apr 22 22:01:44 2022 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2022 22:01:44 -0400 Subject: ANN: PowerDebug 2.3 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey Mark, I will def check this out. Thank you. On Fri, Apr 22, 2022 at 1:09 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi- > > It's been some three years since a major new release of PowerDebug, and > with the 2022 LiveCode conference right around the corner, I think it's > time to release PowerDebug 2.3. > > NOTE: in order to get responsive speed out of this thing, it's now only > backwards-compatible to LiveCode 8.0. > > What's in the new build: > > * Much faster, especially viewing array variable elements. > Yes... expanding big arrays in debug mode was painful before. > Faster code colorization as well. > > * Faster and more robust standalone debugging. > Still works locally or in the same subnet using sockets. Debug > standalone applications with two lines of code. > > * Code profiling. > If you don't already have the Pro package from LC, PowerDebug will add a > new menuItem to the Development menu to toggle profiling on/off. Note > that profiling *will* slow down your code considerably, but PowerDebug > will display execution times down to the microsecond. > > * Improved error reporting, update checking, and more. > > Note that the usernames and passwords have changed for the new version. > The url remains the same, but you'll need the new information to > download the new version. And as always, your registration will never > expire, so you have access to the latest versions. > > Documentation is at > > url: > > > Known issues: > > LiveCode on Windows still doesn't support the long milliseconds, so I'm > extrapolating to microseconds over multiple iterations. > > I don't have an iPhone or associated Apple developer account to test > with, so I can't verify that standalone debugging works on iOS. Any help > testing this would be appreciated. As long as iOS supports socket > communications I assume this would work, but you never know. > > NOTE: I announced the new build to registered users earlier but I have > several bounced messages. If you've previously registered PowerDebug but > haven't gotten an email from me about it, get in touch. You won't be > able to grab the new version without updated registration info. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From craig at starfirelighting.com Tue Apr 26 15:37:15 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2022 15:37:15 -0400 Subject: Single Window LC IDE? Message-ID: <49FEA291-93F8-4611-8F11-18FE9F36A36B@starfirelighting.com> Saw this on Kevin's keynote. Some parts of having such a thing, as opposed to a sea of separate palettes, are attractive indeed. But one aspect would prevent me from EVER upgrading to v10, and that is if the SE also had to be incorporated into that single window. Anyone know if this is in fact planned? Craig From paul at researchware.com Tue Apr 26 16:22:06 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2022 16:22:06 -0400 Subject: Single Window LC IDE? In-Reply-To: <49FEA291-93F8-4611-8F11-18FE9F36A36B@starfirelighting.com> References: <49FEA291-93F8-4611-8F11-18FE9F36A36B@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: <7f626f44-d96d-d83b-bf80-dc7f3a401079@researchware.com> I didn't have a chance to ask follow up questions, but I recall Kevin saying they were headed towards "dockable windows", presumably meaning that all (or many) of the parts of the IDE can be docked into a single window view or undocked to separate windows (for example for people with multiple monitors doing desktop development. I have no idea if that includes the Script Editor, but I might expect that it would. On 4/26/2022 3:37 PM, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: > Saw this on Kevin's keynote. > > Some parts of having such a thing, as opposed to a sea of separate palettes, are attractive indeed. > > But one aspect would prevent me from EVER upgrading to v10, and that is if the SE also had to be incorporated into that single window. Anyone know if this is in fact planned? > > Craig > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Tue Apr 26 17:11:11 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2022 17:11:11 -0400 Subject: Single Window LC IDE? In-Reply-To: <7f626f44-d96d-d83b-bf80-dc7f3a401079@researchware.com> References: <49FEA291-93F8-4611-8F11-18FE9F36A36B@starfirelighting.com> <7f626f44-d96d-d83b-bf80-dc7f3a401079@researchware.com> Message-ID: I'm with you, Craig. There has never been a good single-window IDE, ever. I commented on this issue during the keynote. Kevin said that it would be an option, but not mandatory. If LC createss a browser-based IDE, which was discussed, it may be more difficult to support multiple windows _in_that_workflow_, so I can understand what they may be thinking about. On Tue, Apr 26, 2022 at 4:23 PM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I didn't have a chance to ask follow up questions, but I recall Kevin > saying they were headed towards "dockable windows", presumably meaning > that all (or many) of the parts of the IDE can be docked into a single > window view or undocked to separate windows (for example for people with > multiple monitors doing desktop development. I have no idea if that > includes the Script Editor, but I might expect that it would. > > On 4/26/2022 3:37 PM, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: > > Saw this on Kevin's keynote. > > > > Some parts of having such a thing, as opposed to a sea of separate > palettes, are attractive indeed. > > > > But one aspect would prevent me from EVER upgrading to v10, and that is > if the SE also had to be incorporated into that single window. Anyone know > if this is in fact planned? > > > > Craig > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From tom at makeshyft.com Tue Apr 26 17:18:16 2022 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2022 17:18:16 -0400 Subject: Single Window LC IDE? In-Reply-To: References: <49FEA291-93F8-4611-8F11-18FE9F36A36B@starfirelighting.com> <7f626f44-d96d-d83b-bf80-dc7f3a401079@researchware.com> Message-ID: I wouldn't worry that they will pigeon-hole the ide in that way. That would be madness. Cheers, Tom On Tue, Apr 26, 2022 at 5:13 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I'm with you, Craig. There has never been a good single-window IDE, ever. > I commented on this issue during the keynote. Kevin said that it would be > an option, but not mandatory. > If LC createss a browser-based IDE, which was discussed, it may be more > difficult to support multiple windows _in_that_workflow_, so I can > understand what they may be thinking about. > > On Tue, Apr 26, 2022 at 4:23 PM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > I didn't have a chance to ask follow up questions, but I recall Kevin > > saying they were headed towards "dockable windows", presumably meaning > > that all (or many) of the parts of the IDE can be docked into a single > > window view or undocked to separate windows (for example for people with > > multiple monitors doing desktop development. I have no idea if that > > includes the Script Editor, but I might expect that it would. > > > > On 4/26/2022 3:37 PM, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: > > > Saw this on Kevin's keynote. > > > > > > Some parts of having such a thing, as opposed to a sea of separate > > palettes, are attractive indeed. > > > > > > But one aspect would prevent me from EVER upgrading to v10, and that is > > if the SE also had to be incorporated into that single window. Anyone > know > > if this is in fact planned? > > > > > > Craig > > > _______________________________________________ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dochawk at gmail.com Tue Apr 26 17:57:59 2022 From: dochawk at gmail.com (doc hawk) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2022 14:57:59 -0700 Subject: Single Window LC IDE? In-Reply-To: References: <49FEA291-93F8-4611-8F11-18FE9F36A36B@starfirelighting.com> <7f626f44-d96d-d83b-bf80-dc7f3a401079@researchware.com> Message-ID: tom tumbled, >I wouldn't worry that they will pigeon-hole the ide in that way. >That would be madness. Was it StarOffie 4 (or 5?) that shipped such madness? I recall it being *utterly* unusable, and staying with the prior version. From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed Apr 27 09:17:01 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 09:17:01 -0400 Subject: Single Window LC IDE? In-Reply-To: References: <49FEA291-93F8-4611-8F11-18FE9F36A36B@starfirelighting.com> <7f626f44-d96d-d83b-bf80-dc7f3a401079@researchware.com> Message-ID: yeah, well, they not only discussed it, but they demo'd it, and seemed to be amped about it, so i'm concerned. On Tue, Apr 26, 2022 at 5:59 PM doc hawk via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > tom tumbled, > > >I wouldn't worry that they will pigeon-hole the ide in that way. > >That would be madness. > > Was it StarOffie 4 (or 5?) that shipped such madness? > > I recall it being *utterly* unusable, and staying with the prior version. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From dvglasgow at gmail.com Wed Apr 27 10:06:50 2022 From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David V Glasgow) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 15:06:50 +0100 Subject: Single Window LC IDE? In-Reply-To: References: <49FEA291-93F8-4611-8F11-18FE9F36A36B@starfirelighting.com> <7f626f44-d96d-d83b-bf80-dc7f3a401079@researchware.com> Message-ID: > On 27 Apr 2022, at 2:17 pm, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > they not only discussed it, but they demo'd it … and referred to it as a “new ‘dock windows’ capability”. Which sounds like it will still be each to his/her own. Cheers David G From williamdesmet at gmail.com Wed Apr 27 11:12:32 2022 From: williamdesmet at gmail.com (William de Smet) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 17:12:32 +0200 Subject: Curved text possible? Message-ID: Hi There, I am in the need for curved text. User input via a text field need to have a copied curved text output. Is this even possible in Livecode? I was thinking of text to the points of a path? Something like that? Greetings William From craig at starfirelighting.com Wed Apr 27 11:20:50 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 11:20:50 -0400 Subject: Curved text possible? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: How large is this curved text? You could certainly create an entire alphabet with polyLines, and insert them as needed to replace a body of text. But if you need 12 point size, those graphics are going to be, er, difficult to do nicely. Craig > On Apr 27, 2022, at 11:12 AM, William de Smet via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi There, > > I am in the need for curved text. > User input via a text field need to have a copied curved text output. > Is this even possible in Livecode? > I was thinking of text to the points of a path? Something like that? > > > Greetings William > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Wed Apr 27 11:44:03 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 11:44:03 -0400 Subject: Curved text possible? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55ce36bf-1810-076b-0dd6-3481ca515889@researchware.com> There is not a native way to do this in LiveCode. An approach might be to use the shell() function (see Dictionary) to pass the text to some external graphics utility that renders and image of it curved and then import the image back into Livecode. There may be other work-arounds. On 4/27/2022 11:12 AM, William de Smet via use-livecode wrote: > Hi There, > > I am in the need for curved text. > User input via a text field need to have a copied curved text output. > Is this even possible in Livecode? > I was thinking of text to the points of a path? Something like that? > > > Greetings William > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Wed Apr 27 11:49:31 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 11:49:31 -0400 Subject: Single Window LC IDE? In-Reply-To: References: <49FEA291-93F8-4611-8F11-18FE9F36A36B@starfirelighting.com> <7f626f44-d96d-d83b-bf80-dc7f3a401079@researchware.com> Message-ID: On 4/27/2022 10:06 AM, David V Glasgow via use-livecode wrote: > >> On 27 Apr 2022, at 2:17 pm, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: >> >> they not only discussed it, but they demo'd it > and referred to it as a new dock windows capability. Which sounds like it will still be each to his/her own. Well, if the language isn't updated to support dockable windows then that sucks! I've coded dockable windows in LC script currently. Each of 2 Windows has a group that contains all the relevant functions of the windows. One window has a dock/undock control outside it's groups. Docking moves the groups to the 1st window and remove the window so now the 1st window contains the 2 functional groups next to one another. The groups that was just docked has an undock control. Clicking it move that group back to it's own window which appears and is sized appropriately and the 1st window is resized for just the single group. It is a pain to script and it would make single vs multiple window layout management much easier if it was built into the language in some way. From williamdesmet at gmail.com Wed Apr 27 11:50:56 2022 From: williamdesmet at gmail.com (William de Smet) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 17:50:56 +0200 Subject: Curved text possible? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Craig, The text will mostly be names at start (but could also be more words in the future). Draw with polyLines. Didn't think of that. A lot of coding I think. Then I could also use SVG files to replace the text of the field. Maybe easier to enlarge, rotate a bit and give another backgroundcolor? The number of chars of fld "name" gives me the number of letters. Is there a quick way to define which letter on which place in the name? groeten, William Op wo 27 apr. 2022 om 17:21 schreef Craig Newman via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: > How large is this curved text? > > You could certainly create an entire alphabet with polyLines, and insert > them as needed to replace a body of text. But if you need 12 point size, > those graphics are going to be, er, difficult to do nicely. > > Craig > > > On Apr 27, 2022, at 11:12 AM, William de Smet via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > Hi There, > > > > I am in the need for curved text. > > User input via a text field need to have a copied curved text output. > > Is this even possible in Livecode? > > I was thinking of text to the points of a path? Something like that? > > > > > > Greetings William > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From williamdesmet at gmail.com Wed Apr 27 11:52:09 2022 From: williamdesmet at gmail.com (William de Smet) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 17:52:09 +0200 Subject: Curved text possible? In-Reply-To: <55ce36bf-1810-076b-0dd6-3481ca515889@researchware.com> References: <55ce36bf-1810-076b-0dd6-3481ca515889@researchware.com> Message-ID: Hi Paul, It will be an iOS app. groeten, William Op wo 27 apr. 2022 om 17:45 schreef Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: > There is not a native way to do this in LiveCode. > > An approach might be to use the shell() function (see Dictionary) to > pass the text to some external graphics utility that renders and image > of it curved and then import the image back into Livecode. There may be > other work-arounds. > > On 4/27/2022 11:12 AM, William de Smet via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi There, > > > > I am in the need for curved text. > > User input via a text field need to have a copied curved text output. > > Is this even possible in Livecode? > > I was thinking of text to the points of a path? Something like that? > > > > > > Greetings William > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Apr 27 11:58:12 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 10:58:12 -0500 Subject: Single Window LC IDE? In-Reply-To: References: <49FEA291-93F8-4611-8F11-18FE9F36A36B@starfirelighting.com> <7f626f44-d96d-d83b-bf80-dc7f3a401079@researchware.com> Message-ID: <1806bbe8a38.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> In a later session they said it was just a mock up at this point. When asked about supporting multiple monitors they said it would, and they'd need to consider tear-off windows. I like the new look very much, but most of us old timers have specific requirements which LC agrees they want to accommodate. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On April 27, 2022 8:20:01 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > yeah, well, they not only discussed it, but they demo'd it, and seemed to > be amped about it, so i'm concerned. > > On Tue, Apr 26, 2022 at 5:59 PM doc hawk via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> tom tumbled, >> >> >I wouldn't worry that they will pigeon-hole the ide in that way. >> >That would be madness. >> >> Was it StarOffie 4 (or 5?) that shipped such madness? >> >> I recall it being *utterly* unusable, and staying with the prior version. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Wed Apr 27 12:24:26 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 12:24:26 -0400 Subject: Single Window LC IDE? In-Reply-To: <1806bbe8a38.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <49FEA291-93F8-4611-8F11-18FE9F36A36B@starfirelighting.com> <7f626f44-d96d-d83b-bf80-dc7f3a401079@researchware.com> <1806bbe8a38.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <6a9ae50f-d855-c6ae-c5c8-9eabe98fa897@researchware.com> On 4/27/2022 11:58 AM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > I like the new look very much, but most of us old timers have specific > requirements which LC agrees they want to accommodate. I'm fine with the IDE being either multi-window or single-window. I've worked with both in the past and can adapt to either. I would REALLY like language support for easier layouts, from groups (or views) with built-in slidable dividers (H & V) to easier way to set up resizable groups or controls. The geometry manager is not idea and coding by hand gets exact results but is time intensive. Language support for "tearable" or "dockable" windows is another HIGHLY desired enhancement. 80% of our development time is on the UI. We're a data analytics product. Much more of our developer time should be on the data analysis code for new analytical features not  simply making the UI work. From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org Wed Apr 27 12:38:43 2022 From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (ELS Prothero) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 09:38:43 -0700 Subject: Curved text possible? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2EC34B06-F3C8-42F9-9495-F128A7BB7EFB@earthlearningsolutions.org> Folks, I made a vertically oriented y axis text label for a data plot once. The text was written in a field with a transparent background, then a screen capture of the text field area, then rotating the captured image 90 degrees. It worked great. Obvious limitation was that the background was included in the capture. I wonder if something like this could be done letter by letter, then re-captured in a summary graphic. I seem to remember someone making a plugin, years ago, that made text on a curve. Best, Bill William Prothero https://earthlearningsolutions.org > On Apr 27, 2022, at 8:53 AM, William de Smet via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Paul, > > It will be an iOS app. > > > groeten, > > William > > > > > Op wo 27 apr. 2022 om 17:45 schreef Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: > >> There is not a native way to do this in LiveCode. >> >> An approach might be to use the shell() function (see Dictionary) to >> pass the text to some external graphics utility that renders and image >> of it curved and then import the image back into Livecode. There may be >> other work-arounds. >> >>> On 4/27/2022 11:12 AM, William de Smet via use-livecode wrote: >>> Hi There, >>> >>> I am in the need for curved text. >>> User input via a text field need to have a copied curved text output. >>> Is this even possible in Livecode? >>> I was thinking of text to the points of a path? Something like that? >>> >>> >>> Greetings William >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Apr 27 12:39:20 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 16:39:20 +0000 Subject: Single Window LC IDE? In-Reply-To: <6a9ae50f-d855-c6ae-c5c8-9eabe98fa897@researchware.com> References: <49FEA291-93F8-4611-8F11-18FE9F36A36B@starfirelighting.com> <7f626f44-d96d-d83b-bf80-dc7f3a401079@researchware.com> <1806bbe8a38.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <6a9ae50f-d855-c6ae-c5c8-9eabe98fa897@researchware.com> Message-ID: <8812DF51-7463-43DD-BE0D-BB5D3DCCF100@iotecdigital.com> I watched the keynote by Kevin, and I think all your concerns are slated to be addressed. Bob S > On Apr 27, 2022, at 09:24 , Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > > On 4/27/2022 11:58 AM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >> I like the new look very much, but most of us old timers have specific requirements which LC agrees they want to accommodate. > > I'm fine with the IDE being either multi-window or single-window. I've worked with both in the past and can adapt to either. > > I would REALLY like language support for easier layouts, from groups (or views) with built-in slidable dividers (H & V) to easier way to set up resizable groups or controls. The geometry manager is not idea and coding by hand gets exact results but is time intensive. Language support for "tearable" or "dockable" windows is another HIGHLY desired enhancement. > > 80% of our development time is on the UI. We're a data analytics product. Much more of our developer time should be on the data analysis code for new analytical features not simply making the UI work. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From craig at starfirelighting.com Wed Apr 27 12:39:40 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 12:39:40 -0400 Subject: Curved text possible? In-Reply-To: References: <55ce36bf-1810-076b-0dd6-3481ca515889@researchware.com> Message-ID: <0EE69B34-9150-468D-9590-C03D4D353168@starfirelighting.com> The polyLine character substitution will be a simple. Creation will be a bear, but only once. If you had “Hello World” and wanted to “curve” it, you would simply pull the appropriate curved chars, “H”,, “e’, “l, etc. and string them together. Uh oh, what about kerning? I hope this is a monospaced curved font you are thinking about. Craig > On Apr 27, 2022, at 11:52 AM, William de Smet via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Paul, > > It will be an iOS app. > > > groeten, > > William > > > > > Op wo 27 apr. 2022 om 17:45 schreef Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: > >> There is not a native way to do this in LiveCode. >> >> An approach might be to use the shell() function (see Dictionary) to >> pass the text to some external graphics utility that renders and image >> of it curved and then import the image back into Livecode. There may be >> other work-arounds. >> >> On 4/27/2022 11:12 AM, William de Smet via use-livecode wrote: >>> Hi There, >>> >>> I am in the need for curved text. >>> User input via a text field need to have a copied curved text output. >>> Is this even possible in Livecode? >>> I was thinking of text to the points of a path? Something like that? >>> >>> >>> Greetings William >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dochawk at gmail.com Wed Apr 27 12:47:46 2022 From: dochawk at gmail.com (doc hawk) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 09:47:46 -0700 Subject: Curved text possible? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D1A0C7B-72A6-47C1-A625-7C69043496DD@gmail.com> I looked at this some years ago. I forget why I wanted to do it (a logo, perhaps?). My conclusion was that the best way would be to write it as either eps or postscript. This gives you something that can be trivially rotated without loss, but the catch is that you have to then feed it to an external program to concert it to something that livecode can display (png, jpg, whatever). I decided that it wasn’t worth the effort,. At the time, eps was still included in the documentation, but I think the last platforms livecode actually supported eps on were NeXT and Sunos From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Apr 27 14:26:21 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 11:26:21 -0700 Subject: You're invited: LC DevCon After-Party Message-ID: <6d3ad3f7-08aa-a99f-65ac-0410825b56a7@fourthworld.com> The LC DevCon is so much fun it seems fitting to add one more session off-schedule and completely informal: a Zoom after-party. Come and hang out anytime today (Weed, 27 April) from 6:00 PM EDT until 6:40 PM EDT. That gives us an hour after the close of the last session to take a moment to breathe and catch up on emails and stuff before hanging out with pals to discuss the conference and anything else that comes up. Here's the Zoom invite - zoom will grant access for the first 100 attendees, and we'll have 40 minutes to hang out: ---------- Richard Gaskin is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting. Topic: LiveCode DevCon After-Party Time: Apr 27, 2022 03:00 PM Pacific Time (US and Canada) Join Zoom Meeting https://us02web.zoom.us/j/88049771247?pwd=VUVPdVJBQnYwT09pdThzdE04djVMZz09 Meeting ID: 880 4977 1247 Passcode: 1q8uGx -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems From ahsoftware at sonic.net Wed Apr 27 17:52:58 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 14:52:58 -0700 Subject: ANN: PowerTools 2.2.0 Message-ID: <1a019f7f-e8db-f386-1cf3-84bc43bb8ac9@sonic.net> Hi- It's been some four years since a major new release of PowerTools, and with the 2022 LiveCode conference out of the way for now, I think it's time to release PowerTools 2.2. What's in PowerTools: * Logical separation of tools from objects * Double-click to minimize/restore size * Non-blocking optional date/version check Objects: * Gives unique names for newly-created objects * More built-in tools (H/V field splitters, menubar, progressbars, etc) * Stack factory (built-in and custom sizes) Paint/Graphic tools: * Paint/Graphic tools retain individual properties Widgets: * Support for LCB widgets and LCS group controls * Organize widgets into folders * Supports file links cross-platform As always, PowerTools registrations will never expire, so you always have access to the latest versions. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From paul at researchware.com Wed Apr 27 18:21:26 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 18:21:26 -0400 Subject: LC 9.6.7 export snapshot from a player object seems to fail on Windows (10) Message-ID: I am executing the following 2 lines of code:               export snapshot from rect tRect of player "mediaConvert" of stack "libHrAPI" to tImage as PNG               put tImage into img "imageConvert" of stack "libHrAPI" Prior to the export the player has a video load and has the currentTime set to a particular frame, and I can see in the stack that the player is showing the correct frame is visible. I can also see that the image "imageConvert" is also visible, but empty After the Export Snapshot is executed, it looks like tImage contains valid PNG data, although I can not tell if it is the correct image After the Put statement, the image "imageConvert" is set to a white rectangle with a little bit of the player border on the left and top. It is the same size as the player where as the empty image I started with was larger. This is with LC 9.6.7 on Windows 10. This code works on macOS. Does anyone know if there is a known Windows bug with export a snapshot form a player and any work around? From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu Apr 28 09:44:38 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 09:44:38 -0400 Subject: devcon 2022 recap Message-ID: I am stuck in a time sink. I missed just about all of the devcon as a result. Anyone want to fire off on a recap? -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From marksmithhfx at gmail.com Thu Apr 28 10:13:59 2022 From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 15:13:59 +0100 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mike, check out the LC blog posts for summaries of Days 1 and 2, not sure if a day 3 will be posted (https://livecode.com/reporting-on-day-1-of-the-livecode-conference/). > On 28 Apr 2022, at 14:44, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > I am stuck in a time sink. I missed just about all of the devcon as a > result. Anyone want to fire off on a recap? > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mkoob at rogers.com Thu Apr 28 11:10:43 2022 From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 11:10:43 -0400 Subject: Curved text possible? In-Reply-To: <4D1A0C7B-72A6-47C1-A625-7C69043496DD@gmail.com> References: <4D1A0C7B-72A6-47C1-A625-7C69043496DD@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0D4E5104-2E75-4978-A083-BEE016B844B7@rogers.com> I was thinking that SVG might work as someone else has said. At first I thought you could create individual files for each letter and number and put the path for a letter into a svg widget which you could rotate or scale. you would then have to calculate the angle of rotation and location of each svg widget on a path. But then when I tried rotating the svg widget its scale would change as it rotated because the bounds of the rect were changing. Then you would have to calculate the scale depending on the rotation angle and that seemed a bit much. I also thought you could import the svg file as an image and perhaps that would not have the odd behaviour when rotating. I did not try that though. Then I found this. https://css-tricks.com/snippets/svg/curved-text-along-path/ it shows how to use css to put text along a SVG path. At the LiveCode Dev Con there were a few unconventional uses of the browser widget beyond displaying webpages that add features that can add features that LiveCode does not have natively. So I thought maybe this is one of them. So what I thought could be done is display the above in a browser widget or, If you did not want to show the browser widget, use the browser widget to render the curved text, thentake a snapshot of the rendered text and then show that in an image. Not sure if it will work but the sessions at the conference have really got me thinking of new ways to leverage the technology in that widget. Martin Koob > On Apr 27, 2022, at 12:47 PM, doc hawk via use-livecode wrote: > > I looked at this some years ago. I forget why I wanted to do it (a logo, perhaps?). > > My conclusion was that the best way would be to write it as either eps or postscript. > > This gives you something that can be trivially rotated without loss, but the catch is that you have to then feed it to an external program to concert it to something that livecode can display (png, jpg, whatever). > > I decided that it wasn’t worth the effort,. > > At the time, eps was still included in the documentation, but I think the last platforms livecode actually supported eps on were NeXT and Sunos > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu Apr 28 11:12:47 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 11:12:47 -0400 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I did, but I was hoping for some community comment, as well. On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 10:15 AM Mark Smith via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Mike, check out the LC blog posts for summaries of Days 1 and 2, not sure > if a day 3 will be posted ( > https://livecode.com/reporting-on-day-1-of-the-livecode-conference/). > > > On 28 Apr 2022, at 14:44, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > I am stuck in a time sink. I missed just about all of the devcon as a > > result. Anyone want to fire off on a recap? > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Apr 28 11:18:13 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 15:18:13 +0000 Subject: Curved text possible? In-Reply-To: <0D4E5104-2E75-4978-A083-BEE016B844B7@rogers.com> References: <4D1A0C7B-72A6-47C1-A625-7C69043496DD@gmail.com> <0D4E5104-2E75-4978-A083-BEE016B844B7@rogers.com> Message-ID: <8A2E9450-8F9F-4BB4-B235-7A353CC93EFB@iotecdigital.com> Great ideas Martin. I'm going to grant you an honorary doctorate from the institute of Sly Laboratories. Bob S > On Apr 28, 2022, at 08:10 , Martin Koob via use-livecode wrote: > > I was thinking that SVG might work as someone else has said. > > At first I thought you could create individual files for each letter and number and put the path for a letter into a svg widget which you could rotate or scale. > you would then have to calculate the angle of rotation and location of each svg widget on a path. But then when I tried rotating the svg widget its scale would change as it rotated because the bounds of the rect were changing. Then you would have to calculate the scale depending on the rotation angle and that seemed a bit much. > > I also thought you could import the svg file as an image and perhaps that would not have the odd behaviour when rotating. I did not try that though. > > Then I found this. > > https://css-tricks.com/snippets/svg/curved-text-along-path/ > > it shows how to use css to put text along a SVG path. At the LiveCode Dev Con there were a few unconventional uses of the browser widget beyond displaying webpages that add features that can add features that LiveCode does not have natively. So I thought maybe this is one of them. So what I thought could be done is display the above in a browser widget or, If you did not want to show the browser widget, use the browser widget to render the curved text, thentake a snapshot of the rendered text and then show that in an image. > > Not sure if it will work but the sessions at the conference have really got me thinking of new ways to leverage the technology in that widget. > > Martin Koob From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Thu Apr 28 11:25:20 2022 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 11:25:20 -0400 Subject: Curved text possible? In-Reply-To: <8A2E9450-8F9F-4BB4-B235-7A353CC93EFB@iotecdigital.com> References: <4D1A0C7B-72A6-47C1-A625-7C69043496DD@gmail.com> <0D4E5104-2E75-4978-A083-BEE016B844B7@rogers.com> <8A2E9450-8F9F-4BB4-B235-7A353CC93EFB@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <004101d85b14$2ecba080$8c62e180$@net> +1 Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Bob Sneidar via use-livecode Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2022 11:18 AM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Bob Sneidar Subject: Re: Curved text possible? Great ideas Martin. I'm going to grant you an honorary doctorate from the institute of Sly Laboratories. Bob S > On Apr 28, 2022, at 08:10 , Martin Koob via use-livecode wrote: > > I was thinking that SVG might work as someone else has said. > > At first I thought you could create individual files for each letter and number and put the path for a letter into a svg widget which you could rotate or scale. > you would then have to calculate the angle of rotation and location of each svg widget on a path. But then when I tried rotating the svg widget its scale would change as it rotated because the bounds of the rect were changing. Then you would have to calculate the scale depending on the rotation angle and that seemed a bit much. > > I also thought you could import the svg file as an image and perhaps that would not have the odd behaviour when rotating. I did not try that though. > > Then I found this. > > https://css-tricks.com/snippets/svg/curved-text-along-path/ > > it shows how to use css to put text along a SVG path. At the LiveCode Dev Con there were a few unconventional uses of the browser widget beyond displaying webpages that add features that can add features that LiveCode does not have natively. So I thought maybe this is one of them. So what I thought could be done is display the above in a browser widget or, If you did not want to show the browser widget, use the browser widget to render the curved text, thentake a snapshot of the rendered text and then show that in an image. > > Not sure if it will work but the sessions at the conference have really got me thinking of new ways to leverage the technology in that widget. > > Martin Koob _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Thu Apr 28 11:39:08 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 17:39:08 +0200 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It was really an amazing event. And although i am not a big Zoom fan, the decision of the team to use Zoom was the right one. It allowed much more interaction. All 3 keynotes were very interesting and make me think and hope that Livecode Ltd. is on its right way to grow. Marks Waddingham's session about the script compiler... Okay, i did only understand half or quarter of it... ;) But that was not Mark's fault. It was caused by my lack of knowledge. The sessions 'Automate PDF Forms with LC Server' held by Christopher Flat and Michael McCreary's session 'Docker and Livecode Server' were the importan ones for me. I will definitely view all sessions i missed and will review all sessions i joined as soon as the recordings are available. All in all it was a really awesome experience and the next time i will be prepared and have my webcam set up. ;) I was so impressed especially by the planned new features of LC that i subscribed right away to the upcoming LC Global 22/23 which starts in May this year. https://livecode.com/global/global2022/ Matthias > Am 28.04.2022 um 17:12 schrieb Mike Kerner via use-livecode : > > I did, but I was hoping for some community comment, as well. > > On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 10:15 AM Mark Smith via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Mike, check out the LC blog posts for summaries of Days 1 and 2, not sure >> if a day 3 will be posted ( >> https://livecode.com/reporting-on-day-1-of-the-livecode-conference/). >> >>> On 28 Apr 2022, at 14:44, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>> I am stuck in a time sink. I missed just about all of the devcon as a >>> result. Anyone want to fire off on a recap? >>> >>> -- >>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >>> On the second day, God created the oceans. >>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >>> and did a little diving. >>> And God said, "This is good." >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From williamdesmet at gmail.com Thu Apr 28 11:42:00 2022 From: williamdesmet at gmail.com (William de Smet) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 17:42:00 +0200 Subject: Curved text possible? In-Reply-To: <004101d85b14$2ecba080$8c62e180$@net> References: <4D1A0C7B-72A6-47C1-A625-7C69043496DD@gmail.com> <0D4E5104-2E75-4978-A083-BEE016B844B7@rogers.com> <8A2E9450-8F9F-4BB4-B235-7A353CC93EFB@iotecdigital.com> <004101d85b14$2ecba080$8c62e180$@net> Message-ID: Thanks! I came up with sort of the same idea yesterday evening and I am tetsting it now. I load a local html file within the browser widget with circletype.js added to the html file. A native textfield (and some extra code) writes back into the html file and then I refresh the card. A snapshot gives me the curved text. There is also Arctext,js that I want to test. I will come back later with my result. groeten, William Op do 28 apr. 2022 om 17:24 schreef Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: > +1 > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On > Behalf > Of Bob Sneidar via use-livecode > Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2022 11:18 AM > To: How to use LiveCode > Cc: Bob Sneidar > Subject: Re: Curved text possible? > > Great ideas Martin. I'm going to grant you an honorary doctorate from the > institute of Sly Laboratories. > > Bob S > > > > On Apr 28, 2022, at 08:10 , Martin Koob via use-livecode > wrote: > > > > I was thinking that SVG might work as someone else has said. > > > > At first I thought you could create individual files for each letter and > number and put the path for a letter into a svg widget which you could > rotate or scale. > > you would then have to calculate the angle of rotation and location of > each svg widget on a path. But then when I tried rotating the svg widget > its scale would change as it rotated because the bounds of the rect were > changing. Then you would have to calculate the scale depending on the > rotation angle and that seemed a bit much. > > > > I also thought you could import the svg file as an image and perhaps that > would not have the odd behaviour when rotating. I did not try that though. > > > > Then I found this. > > > > https://css-tricks.com/snippets/svg/curved-text-along-path/ > > > > > it shows how to use css to put text along a SVG path. At the LiveCode > Dev > Con there were a few unconventional uses of the browser widget beyond > displaying webpages that add features that can add features that LiveCode > does not have natively. So I thought maybe this is one of them. So what I > thought could be done is display the above in a browser widget or, If you > did not want to show the browser widget, use the browser widget to render > the curved text, thentake a snapshot of the rendered text and then show > that > in an image. > > > > Not sure if it will work but the sessions at the conference have really > got me thinking of new ways to leverage the technology in that widget. > > > > Martin Koob > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From paul at researchware.com Thu Apr 28 11:49:37 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 11:49:37 -0400 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8f667f61-a644-7583-0832-a253de6fd2f6@researchware.com> On 4/28/2022 11:12 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > I did, but I was hoping for some community comment, as well. Here is my take on the content I was interested in: 1) Web application development. If you are building a new app for the web, you can do that pretty well now in LC 9.6.7 and LC 10 will be even better. 2) If you have an existing application, say for the Desktop, but also for Mobile, depending upon what that app does, porting it to the web under LC 9.6.7 can run into problems, under LC 10 it will be easier, but 10 still has a lot of "developer preview (dp) releases to go before all the things that will make web apps under 10 better will be there. 3) The compiler will be a nice addition for most people, an *essential* addition if you have some app that is currently performance constrained. The compiler is off in the LC 10 (release) and LC 11 time frame. 4) In Kevin keynote he alluded to some possible language/object enhancements t o make responsive UI design easier (less coding). These may (or may not) include such things as a "group type" object to layout panes or rows and columns  for interface elements (other LC objects) and - as part of another topic - a new single window IDE design may have dockable and undockable windows that may or may not have code support that developers can use to make having their own dockable/undockable windows built more easily. Some of this work will be a replacement for the Geometry Manager (little used due to problems with it) So, for me, a number of things I am keenly interested in: (1) easier posting of existing desktop apps to the web, (2) faster apps, and (3) language enhancements that may UI design faster and involves less coding. However none of this is available now and it will be arriving over various time frames from "soon" to "later". All comments and interpretations of what was presented are my own. Paul Dupuis Researchware From heather at livecode.com Thu Apr 28 11:51:35 2022 From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 16:51:35 +0100 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: A Day 3 will be posted: https://livecode.com/day-3-and-conference-roundup/ :) Enjoy. Best Regards, Heather Heather Laine Customer Services Manager LiveCode Ltd www.livecode.com > On 28 Apr 2022, at 15:13, Mark Smith via use-livecode wrote: > > Mike, check out the LC blog posts for summaries of Days 1 and 2, not sure if a day 3 will be posted (https://livecode.com/reporting-on-day-1-of-the-livecode-conference/). > >> On 28 Apr 2022, at 14:44, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: >> >> I am stuck in a time sink. I missed just about all of the devcon as a >> result. Anyone want to fire off on a recap? >> >> -- >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >> On the second day, God created the oceans. >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> and did a little diving. >> And God said, "This is good." >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From marksmithhfx at gmail.com Thu Apr 28 12:06:24 2022 From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 17:06:24 +0100 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I thought it was a pretty good conference Mike, and surprisingly well handled by Zoom (although it took me 3 days to figure out what all the bits and pieces of the interface were for) and there were some pretty great presentations. Some I had to miss because of other commitments so I’ll be looking forward to watching them post-conf when Heather has a chance to upload them. There were a lot of very forward looking sessions from Kevin and company, and Mark Talluto had an interesting take on app development presented during his plenary (Appli.io ). Lots of ideas I think on how things could be improved or, as Mark said “made as simple as possible, but no simpler” (or maybe that was Einstein!!). Either way, great quote/comment. Like Matthias, I signed up for the LC Global 22/23 just so I could keep up with it all during the coming year. > On Apr 28, 2022, at 4:12 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > I did, but I was hoping for some community comment, as well. > > On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 10:15 AM Mark Smith via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Mike, check out the LC blog posts for summaries of Days 1 and 2, not sure >> if a day 3 will be posted ( >> https://livecode.com/reporting-on-day-1-of-the-livecode-conference/). >> >>> On 28 Apr 2022, at 14:44, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>> I am stuck in a time sink. I missed just about all of the devcon as a >>> result. Anyone want to fire off on a recap? >>> >>> -- >>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >>> On the second day, God created the oceans. >>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >>> and did a little diving. >>> And God said, "This is good." >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Apr 28 12:09:45 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 16:09:45 +0000 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2362DD23-522A-4F6F-A72E-0604D668B4F0@iotecdigital.com> Anytime I get to thinking I'm a pretty smart guy, I can just watch one of Mark Waddingham's sessions, and be duly humbled. ;-) Bob S > On Apr 28, 2022, at 09:06 , Mark Smith via use-livecode wrote: > > I thought it was a pretty good conference Mike, and surprisingly well handled by Zoom (although it took me 3 days to figure out what all the bits and pieces of the interface were for) and there were some pretty great presentations. Some I had to miss because of other commitments so I’ll be looking forward to watching them post-conf when Heather has a chance to upload them. There were a lot of very forward looking sessions from Kevin and company, and Mark Talluto had an interesting take on app development presented during his plenary (Appli.io ). Lots of ideas I think on how things could be improved or, as Mark said “made as simple as possible, but no simpler” (or maybe that was Einstein!!). Either way, great quote/comment. Like Matthias, I signed up for the LC Global 22/23 just so I could keep up with it all during the coming year. From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Apr 28 12:37:59 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 11:37:59 -0500 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <18071095658.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Same here, I'm really looking forward to seeing the iterations of the new IDE and features as they happen. The future looks very bright and I want to be there. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On April 28, 2022 10:41:12 AM matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > I was so impressed especially by the planned new features of LC that i > subscribed right away to the upcoming LC Global 22/23 which starts in May > this year. > https://livecode.com/global/global2022/ > From ahsoftware at sonic.net Thu Apr 28 12:55:35 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 09:55:35 -0700 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 4/28/22 08:39, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > I was so impressed especially by the planned new features of LC that i subscribed right away to the upcoming LC Global 22/23 which starts in May this year. > https://livecode.com/global/global2022/ Same here. I misjudged the time so I overslept and missed Mark Waddingham's keynote but I'll catch it on the rebound. I do think Appli gives LC what's been missing to draw in new users, so check out Mark Talluto's keynote on day 3 for the details. And I highly recommend Craig Newman's lightning talk. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu Apr 28 15:02:19 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 15:02:19 -0400 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: just a couple of thoughts from the whole two hours I was on for Monday: * Cough up your $299 for LCG, today. * This wasn't discussed, but there is supposed to be some fixing coming in dp's of 10 for behaviors, especially nested behaviors * The whole low-code piece...meh. It feels like they're chasing another dead end. * I heard some hints about discussion of some better object management and handling. I hope that happens. * Still nothing on dealing with the way groups are handled. On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 12:56 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 4/28/22 08:39, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > > > I was so impressed especially by the planned new features of LC that i > subscribed right away to the upcoming LC Global 22/23 which starts in May > this year. > > https://livecode.com/global/global2022/ < > https://livecode.com/global/global2022/> > > Same here. I misjudged the time so I overslept and missed Mark > Waddingham's keynote but I'll catch it on the rebound. I do think Appli > gives LC what's been missing to draw in new users, so check out Mark > Talluto's keynote on day 3 for the details. And I highly recommend Craig > Newman's lightning talk. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Apr 28 15:37:29 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 14:37:29 -0500 Subject: Native Android input field Message-ID: In the after-party that Richard set up on the last day of the conference, the question came up whether the native Android field widget would scroll. The answer is, yes it does. There is one little glitch. If the widget is editable, and your finger lifts inside the widget after scrolling, the keyboard pops up. If you end the scroll while your finger is outside the field area, it does not. This doesn't happen if the field is not editable. Also in either case, the scroll isn't as smooth as it is when constructed in a script. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From ahsoftware at sonic.net Thu Apr 28 15:45:28 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 12:45:28 -0700 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8145432e-26f1-7627-02f7-554f9dddd646@sonic.net> On 4/28/22 12:02, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > * The whole low-code piece...meh. It feels like they're chasing another > dead end. Oh, I gotta disagree there. Just a different target audience. Maybe not for those of us already in the flock, but I think what's been missing from LiveCode is that first-user experience. The one when you first launched HyperCard and were able to connect a button to a new card without doing anything more than point and click and bang! you had a working application. I think appli can be the gateway drug to LC that expands the subscriber base, and that's good for everybody. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Apr 28 15:54:42 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 12:54:42 -0700 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: <8145432e-26f1-7627-02f7-554f9dddd646@sonic.net> References: <8145432e-26f1-7627-02f7-554f9dddd646@sonic.net> Message-ID: <0660c4c2-6450-2248-8fcf-8004e0d0733c@fourthworld.com> To clarify: "low code" is just a modern term for what LC's been providing the whole time. "no code" is what Appli does, an adjacent but very different market for those whose needs can be satisfied without the nuance scripting provides. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Mark Wieder wrote: > On 4/28/22 12:02, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > >> * The whole low-code piece...meh. It feels like they're chasing another >> dead end. > > Oh, I gotta disagree there. Just a different target audience. > > Maybe not for those of us already in the flock, but I think what's been > missing from LiveCode is that first-user experience. The one when you > first launched HyperCard and were able to connect a button to a new card > without doing anything more than point and click and bang! you had a > working application. I think appli can be the gateway drug to LC that > expands the subscriber base, and that's good for everybody. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Apr 28 15:57:16 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 12:57:16 -0700 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1af046d3-83b1-5f2d-c798-53c1c7e4a886@fourthworld.com> Mike Kerner wrote: > * This wasn't discussed, but there is supposed to be some > fixing coming in dp's of 10 for behaviors, especially > nested behaviors I missed a bug report: what are the issues with nested behaviors? > * Still nothing on dealing with the way groups are handled. What aspects of group handling, and how should they be different? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ahsoftware at sonic.net Thu Apr 28 16:08:44 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 13:08:44 -0700 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: <0660c4c2-6450-2248-8fcf-8004e0d0733c@fourthworld.com> References: <8145432e-26f1-7627-02f7-554f9dddd646@sonic.net> <0660c4c2-6450-2248-8fcf-8004e0d0733c@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <28c5f8d6-e034-ee63-1565-b72b25adadc7@sonic.net> On 4/28/22 12:54, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > To clarify: > > "low code" is just a modern term for what LC's been providing the whole > time. > > "no code" is what Appli does, an adjacent but very different market for > those whose needs can be satisfied without the nuance scripting provides. > I think what I saw in Mark's keynote is the ability in appli do some coding, just not to any extent the deep capabilities of LiveCode. Thus "low code". -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Apr 28 16:26:12 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 20:26:12 +0000 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That looked really interesing to me. The ability to create a no code web app was especially intriguing. I was not able to find the app on the Apple Store though. Where do I get the 45 day demo?? Bob S > On Apr 28, 2022, at 12:02 , Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > * The whole low-code piece...meh. It feels like they're chasing another > dead end. From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Apr 28 16:27:39 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 20:27:39 +0000 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <16E8D9EA-374D-4B63-B6F3-6C21CAF6177E@iotecdigital.com> NVM I found it. Not on the app store. Bob S > On Apr 28, 2022, at 13:26 , Bob Sneidar wrote: > > That looked really interesing to me. The ability to create a no code web app was especially intriguing. I was not able to find the app on the Apple Store though. Where do I get the 45 day demo?? > > Bob S > > >> On Apr 28, 2022, at 12:02 , Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: >> >> * The whole low-code piece...meh. It feels like they're chasing another >> dead end. > From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Apr 28 16:53:50 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 20:53:50 +0000 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: <1af046d3-83b1-5f2d-c798-53c1c7e4a886@fourthworld.com> References: <1af046d3-83b1-5f2d-c798-53c1c7e4a886@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Richard, I've been pounding the pulpit on this one for some time. Besides the default datagrid behavior, I have a whole library of handlers that I use for my datagrids that I need to access. To do this, I need my library to be inserted *between* the datagrid and the default behavior. This is not presently possible without a bit of magic someone sent to me. The fix is simple and elegant and has worked for me since I started using it. In behaviorsdatagridbuttonbehavior.livecodescript I replaced the private function _resourceStack handler with an updated one: -- Sly Labs! Inline Custom Behaviors /* private function _ResourceStack local theStack, theCharNo put the behavior of me into theStack if theStack is not empty then put offset(" of stack", theStack) into theCharNo delete char 1 to (theCharNo + 3) of theStack end if return theStack end _ResourceStack */ local sResourceStack private function _ResourceStack local theStack, theCharNo if sResourceStack is empty then put the behavior of me into theStack repeat if trueWord -1 of theStack is "revDataGridLibrary" or theStack is empty then exit repeat else put the behavior of theStack into theStack end if end repeat if theStack is not empty then put offset(" of stack", theStack) into theCharNo delete char 1 to (theCharNo + 3) of theStack end if put theStack into sResourceStack end if return sResourceStack end _ResourceStack -- END Sly Labs! Inline Custom Behaviors If I then set the behavior of the datagrid to my custom behavior, then set that behavior to the default datagrid behavior, then I have nested datagrid behaviors. (I think it's a bit more complex but that is the idea.) What's the advantage you say? Well for instance I have a selectionChanged hander that I use for all my datagrids, preventing me from having to code it in every datagrid in my app, which is quite a few. That selectionChanged handler accomodates a FindBar object so if I am searching for a data record in a database, selecting the found record in the datagrid will reload all the other associated data. Also in that behavior I have a standard method for querying data for the datagrids, a standard method for populating fields, buttons and menus on the card the datagrid is on, and a mouseDoubleUp handler so that when a user double clicks on a datagrid row I can process it. These use custom properties I set for each datagrid so that things like the table to query, the primary key, the field to focus on when done etc. are accessible to the particular datagrid. As a result, all I have to do now to create a new datagrid is copy/paste an existing one, name it, change a few custom properties, and set the column names, and away it goes. I suppose what would be needed to support this in the release versions of LC is a way to easily "insert" a behavior "before" or "after" the default behavior. Bob S > On Apr 28, 2022, at 12:57 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > Mike Kerner wrote: > > > * This wasn't discussed, but there is supposed to be some > > fixing coming in dp's of 10 for behaviors, especially > > nested behaviors > > I missed a bug report: what are the issues with nested behaviors? > > > > * Still nothing on dealing with the way groups are handled. > > What aspects of group handling, and how should they be different? > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Apr 28 16:58:00 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 13:58:00 -0700 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: <28c5f8d6-e034-ee63-1565-b72b25adadc7@sonic.net> References: <28c5f8d6-e034-ee63-1565-b72b25adadc7@sonic.net> Message-ID: <378fd701-439d-6447-3743-b93652a85d4d@fourthworld.com> Yes, but that's something of an "expert feature" in that intended market, much like coding externals for LC. In terms of general product flavor and intent, LC is "low code" and Appli is "no code". Given the clear mission for each, they seem good compliments. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems > Mark Wieder ahsoftware at sonic.net > Thu Apr 28 16:08:44 EDT 2022 > > Previous message (by thread): devcon 2022 recap > Next message (by thread): devcon 2022 recap > Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] > > On 4/28/22 12:54, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >> To clarify: >> >> "low code" is just a modern term for what LC's been providing the whole >> time. >> >> "no code" is what Appli does, an adjacent but very different market for >> those whose needs can be satisfied without the nuance scripting provides. >> > > I think what I saw in Mark's keynote is the ability in appli do some > coding, just not to any extent the deep capabilities of LiveCode. Thus > "low code". From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Apr 28 17:02:22 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 14:02:22 -0700 Subject: Native Android input field In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: J. Landman Gay wrote: > In the after-party that Richard set up on the last day of the > conference, the question came up whether the native Android > field widget would scroll. The answer is, yes it does. > > There is one little glitch. If the widget is editable, and your > finger lifts inside the widget after scrolling, the keyboard pops > up. If you end the scroll while your finger is outside the > field area, it does not. > > This doesn't happen if the field is not editable. Also in either case, > the scroll isn't as smooth as it is when constructed in a script. > > Good find with that bug report. Thanks for submitting it. The circumstance I introduced in the chat was something far more common: just scrolling a field, a normal non-editable LC field used to display text. Doing that without jittery motion and with appropriate scroll-end indication in LiveCode for mobile requires following the steps in this tutorial: https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4069/l/94412-creating-a-native-scroller-to-scroll-a-field Seems pretty fiddly just to scroll a field. Makes me wonder how many of us would be using LC if those steps were required to have normal scrolling in our desktop apps when we were first considering this platform. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Apr 28 17:03:52 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 21:03:52 +0000 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: <378fd701-439d-6447-3743-b93652a85d4d@fourthworld.com> References: <28c5f8d6-e034-ee63-1565-b72b25adadc7@sonic.net> <378fd701-439d-6447-3743-b93652a85d4d@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <764776F4-9C13-40E1-ACF0-6B52AA528A19@iotecdigital.com> Well I downloaded the Appli app. The starting level is $45 / month, and storage is pretty sparse, which I can pay more for later. Doesn't look cost effective for me when I could just create my own web portal. Bob S > On Apr 28, 2022, at 13:58 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > Yes, but that's something of an "expert feature" in that intended market, much like coding externals for LC. > > In terms of general product flavor and intent, LC is "low code" and Appli is "no code". > > Given the clear mission for each, they seem good compliments. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Apr 28 20:08:52 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 19:08:52 -0500 Subject: Native Android input field In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <18072a62220.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Yes, that would be ideal. Let's see what the Great Reimagining brings. In the chat I remember saying I couldn't use the widget but I couldn't remember why. The unexpected keyboard display was the reason. And unlike a normal LC field, you can't set it to allow copying without also allowing editing. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On April 28, 2022 4:04:31 PM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > The circumstance I introduced in the chat was something far more common: > just scrolling a field, a normal non-editable LC field used to display text. From mark at canelasoftware.com Thu Apr 28 20:46:32 2022 From: mark at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 17:46:32 -0700 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: <764776F4-9C13-40E1-ACF0-6B52AA528A19@iotecdigital.com> References: <28c5f8d6-e034-ee63-1565-b72b25adadc7@sonic.net> <378fd701-439d-6447-3743-b93652a85d4d@fourthworld.com> <764776F4-9C13-40E1-ACF0-6B52AA528A19@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <4910EBCA-6E93-4ECA-8E3C-28E2E2242975@canelasoftware.com> Hi Everyone, We should have Appli forums in the coming week or so. I’ll try to keep Appli-related responses to a minimum. Appli comes in two parts. Part 1 - Appli IDE runs as a desktop app that you can download from appli.io. Interesting note: We designed the IDE to work on desktops and tablets like iPads. Pat 2 - Appli Player is available from Google Play and iOS app stores. Appli makes native apps only. They feel like web apps because they use the cloud for distribution and data storage. We are looking to support the web export feature in LC 10 when it is feasible to do so. No-code and low-code These are fun words that do not mean much. I said they are great buzz words to have on hand in my conference presentation. :) We have wizards that can do complex actions with a few clicks. We also have a list of actions that you can drag onto a workflow that effectively replaces typing code. The killer feature is that you can use actual LiveCode scripts in Appli. Canela and LiveCode have partnered to bring a different type of tool for app makers to market. Our collaboration aims to get more people into the LiveCode community. We believe that a larger community will benefit everyone. This summer, we will execute a marketing plan for people outside our beloved LC community to try Appli. We will do our best to excite people to take full advantage of their license features. One of those features is access to the LC IDE (no standalone building). Our mutual hope is that new people will try Appli and eventually fall in love with LiveCode. These developers will see Appli, LiveCloud, and LiveCode as a suite as tools to help them make apps. Licensing Appli means you are also financially supporting LiveCode. We do not want to generate any uncomfortable friction by providing an alternative method for making apps. Since day one of its existence, we have been LiveCode developers and, long before, with MetaCard. Appli is made 100% in LiveCode. It is a comprehensive example of a complex solution made in LiveCode. The LiveCode team has plans to express the goals of our suite soon. When they announce, I am confident they will clearly articulate the value proposition. If anyone has Appli questions, please feel free to write us at hello at appli.io. -Mark Talluto > On Apr 28, 2022, at 2:03 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > Well I downloaded the Appli app. The starting level is $45 / month, and storage is pretty sparse, which I can pay more for later. Doesn't look cost effective for me when I could just create my own web portal. > > Bob S > > >> On Apr 28, 2022, at 13:58 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Yes, but that's something of an "expert feature" in that intended market, much like coding externals for LC. >> >> In terms of general product flavor and intent, LC is "low code" and Appli is "no code". >> >> Given the clear mission for each, they seem good compliments. >> >> -- >> Richard Gaskin >> Fourth World Systems > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Thu Apr 28 23:25:26 2022 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 13:25:26 +1000 Subject: Pulldownmenu button bug on Windows Message-ID: I have a pulldown menu button which has a menupick script and also a mouseLeave script. On a Mac, when a user brings up the menu and drags the mouse down to select a menu item (leaving the button rect but within the pulldown menu), the menupick handler is invoked, and then the mouseleave handler is called. This is what I expected. However on Windows, the mouseleave script is called immediately the mouse leaves the button while the user is still in the process of making the selection, and then menupick is called if the user actually makes the selection. Which means standalones behave quite differently (in my app, the menupick did something to a selection in a field, and mouseleave did something else to the selection: the order is thus critical). They can’t both be right, so certainly one is a bug. The Mac order is IMO correct since the pulldown menu has been started by the user so the app should be in a modal state until the menu selection is resolved. Neville From mkoob at rogers.com Fri Apr 29 08:45:33 2022 From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 08:45:33 -0400 Subject: LC 9.6.7 export snapshot from a player object seems to fail on Windows (10) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Paul I just tried the same thing and got the same result. It works on Mac, not on Windows. I also tried exporting the image as a file to see if that made any difference. export snapshot from rect tRect of player "mediaConvert" of stack "libHrAPI" to file [filepath/filename.png] as PNG I got an image file but it is the same as what you see in the image object on the stack — an image of a white rect inside the player boarder. So it looks like it is a bug. The snapshot does create a proper png it just doesn’t grab the current video image inside the player it just gets a white rect. Martin > On Apr 27, 2022, at 6:21 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > > I am executing the following 2 lines of code: > > export snapshot from rect tRect of player "mediaConvert" of stack "libHrAPI" to tImage as PNG > put tImage into img "imageConvert" of stack "libHrAPI" > > Prior to the export the player has a video load and has the currentTime set to a particular frame, and I can see in the stack that the player is showing the correct frame is visible. > I can also see that the image "imageConvert" is also visible, but empty > > After the Export Snapshot is executed, it looks like tImage contains valid PNG data, although I can not tell if it is the correct image > After the Put statement, the image "imageConvert" is set to a white rectangle with a little bit of the player border on the left and top. It is the same size as the player where as the empty image I started with was larger. > > This is with LC 9.6.7 on Windows 10. This code works on macOS. Does anyone know if there is a known Windows bug with export a snapshot form a player and any work around? > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From craig at starfirelighting.com Fri Apr 29 09:07:31 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 09:07:31 -0400 Subject: Pulldownmenu button bug on Windows In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4B9AAEFF-E7EB-49D0-809A-EE1B924737CD@starfirelighting.com> Hi. I will say again that the format of the forum is so much easier to work with. I made a pulldown and two fields, with these two handlers in the button script: on menuPick pItemName put pItemname into fld 1 end menuPick on mouseleave put random(999) into fld 2 end mouseleave On my Mac ( I will never voluntarily use Windows) the menuItem is always nicely placed into fld 1 after being selected. A random number appears in fld 2 nicely as well. The mouseLeave handler fires immediately if I just enter the button rect and leave it without ever clicking the mouse to invoke a menu. Makes sense. What I found interesting is that when the cursor is below the actual button, "within" the pulldown menu space, that handler fires after an ordinary menu selection,. It is as if the mouse has “left” the button rect by virtue of the menu “space” disappearing after a selection is made. Either that or LC “sees” the entirety of the button and the menu space as its rect. Whatever. But that is how the Mac works. I apologize, but I see that I have been of no help to you at all. Craig > On Apr 28, 2022, at 11:25 PM, Neville Smythe via use-livecode wrote: > > I have a pulldown menu button which has a menupick script and also a mouseLeave script. > > On a Mac, when a user brings up the menu and drags the mouse down to select a menu item (leaving the button rect but within the pulldown menu), the menupick handler is invoked, and then the mouseleave handler is called. This is what I expected. > > However on Windows, the mouseleave script is called immediately the mouse leaves the button while the user is still in the process of making the selection, and then menupick is called if the user actually makes the selection. > > Which means standalones behave quite differently (in my app, the menupick did something to a selection in a field, and mouseleave did something else to the selection: the order is thus critical). > > They can’t both be right, so certainly one is a bug. The Mac order is IMO correct since the pulldown menu has been started by the user so the app should be in a modal state until the menu selection is resolved. > > Neville > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Fri Apr 29 12:25:51 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 12:25:51 -0400 Subject: LC 9.6.7 export snapshot from a player object seems to fail on Windows (10) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <15163895-9318-8a50-01f7-8ea08387f1fe@researchware.com> Martin, Thank you for confirming. I have filed a bug with Livecode: https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23694 On 4/29/2022 8:45 AM, Martin Koob wrote: > Hi Paul > > I just tried the same thing and got the same result. It works on Mac, not on Windows. > > I also tried exporting the image as a file to see if that made any difference. > > export snapshot from rect tRect of player "mediaConvert" of stack "libHrAPI" to file [filepath/filename.png] as PNG > > I got an image file but it is the same as what you see in the image object on the stack an image of a white rect inside the player boarder. > > So it looks like it is a bug. The snapshot does create a proper png it just doesnt grab the current video image inside the player it just gets a white rect. > > Martin > >> On Apr 27, 2022, at 6:21 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: >> >> I am executing the following 2 lines of code: >> >> export snapshot from rect tRect of player "mediaConvert" of stack "libHrAPI" to tImage as PNG >> put tImage into img "imageConvert" of stack "libHrAPI" >> >> Prior to the export the player has a video load and has the currentTime set to a particular frame, and I can see in the stack that the player is showing the correct frame is visible. >> I can also see that the image "imageConvert" is also visible, but empty >> >> After the Export Snapshot is executed, it looks like tImage contains valid PNG data, although I can not tell if it is the correct image >> After the Put statement, the image "imageConvert" is set to a white rectangle with a little bit of the player border on the left and top. It is the same size as the player where as the empty image I started with was larger. >> >> This is with LC 9.6.7 on Windows 10. This code works on macOS. Does anyone know if there is a known Windows bug with export a snapshot form a player and any work around? >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Apr 29 13:51:53 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 17:51:53 +0000 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: <4910EBCA-6E93-4ECA-8E3C-28E2E2242975@canelasoftware.com> References: <28c5f8d6-e034-ee63-1565-b72b25adadc7@sonic.net> <378fd701-439d-6447-3743-b93652a85d4d@fourthworld.com> <764776F4-9C13-40E1-ACF0-6B52AA528A19@iotecdigital.com> <4910EBCA-6E93-4ECA-8E3C-28E2E2242975@canelasoftware.com> Message-ID: <2E440010-19A3-46D7-9445-A6EB84CA309C@iotecdigital.com> Thanks for the Clarification Mark. I'm curious, is there a way to connect to data sources other then the Appli cloud storage? I ask because this was looking like a really good way to port a reduced functionality version of my Forms Generator to some kind of web portal without actually having to develop the web side of things. If I could demonstrate the ability to generate signable PDFs, I might be able to convince my employer to sign up for this. Bob S > On Apr 28, 2022, at 17:46 , Mark Talluto via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Everyone, > > We should have Appli forums in the coming week or so. I’ll try to keep Appli-related responses to a minimum. > > Appli comes in two parts. > Part 1 - Appli IDE runs as a desktop app that you can download from appli.io. Interesting note: We designed the IDE to work on desktops and tablets like iPads. > > Pat 2 - Appli Player is available from Google Play and iOS app stores. > > Appli makes native apps only. They feel like web apps because they use the cloud for distribution and data storage. We are looking to support the web export feature in LC 10 when it is feasible to do so. > > No-code and low-code > These are fun words that do not mean much. I said they are great buzz words to have on hand in my conference presentation. :) > > We have wizards that can do complex actions with a few clicks. We also have a list of actions that you can drag onto a workflow that effectively replaces typing code. The killer feature is that you can use actual LiveCode scripts in Appli. > > Canela and LiveCode have partnered to bring a different type of tool for app makers to market. Our collaboration aims to get more people into the LiveCode community. We believe that a larger community will benefit everyone. This summer, we will execute a marketing plan for people outside our beloved LC community to try Appli. We will do our best to excite people to take full advantage of their license features. One of those features is access to the LC IDE (no standalone building). > > Our mutual hope is that new people will try Appli and eventually fall in love with LiveCode. These developers will see Appli, LiveCloud, and LiveCode as a suite as tools to help them make apps. > > Licensing Appli means you are also financially supporting LiveCode. We do not want to generate any uncomfortable friction by providing an alternative method for making apps. Since day one of its existence, we have been LiveCode developers and, long before, with MetaCard. Appli is made 100% in LiveCode. It is a comprehensive example of a complex solution made in LiveCode. > > The LiveCode team has plans to express the goals of our suite soon. When they announce, I am confident they will clearly articulate the value proposition. > > If anyone has Appli questions, please feel free to write us at hello at appli.io. > > -Mark Talluto > >> On Apr 28, 2022, at 2:03 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Well I downloaded the Appli app. The starting level is $45 / month, and storage is pretty sparse, which I can pay more for later. Doesn't look cost effective for me when I could just create my own web portal. >> >> Bob S >> >> >>> On Apr 28, 2022, at 13:58 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> Yes, but that's something of an "expert feature" in that intended market, much like coding externals for LC. >>> >>> In terms of general product flavor and intent, LC is "low code" and Appli is "no code". >>> >>> Given the clear mission for each, they seem good compliments. >>> >>> -- >>> Richard Gaskin >>> Fourth World Systems >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Fri Apr 29 14:27:09 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 14:27:09 -0400 Subject: LC 9.6.7 export snapshot from a player object seems to fail on Windows (10) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6904ea72-7dc5-81dd-233d-00cf23793896@researchware.com> There are apparently no work-arounds for the failure of this version of the export snapshot on Windows 10/11 I've tried:     -- method that does not work on Windows, but works on macOS with player hidden [A REQUIREMENT]     put the rect of player "myPlayer" into tRect     export snapshot from rect tRect of player "myPlayer" to tImage as PNG     put tImage into img "myImage"     -- trying alt method #1 [FAILS LIKE ABOVE]     export snapshot from player "myPlayer" to tImage as PNG     put tImage into img "myImage"     -- trying alt method #2 [TAKES A SNAPSHOT OF THE WINDOWS SCREEN]     put the rect of player "myPlayer" into tRect     export snapshot from rect tRect to tImage as PNG     put tImage into img "myImage"     -- trying alt method #3 [WORKS ONLY IF VISIBLE ON SCREEN WITH NOTHING ON TOP (no overlapping windows)] This also fails (with an execution error) if the user has moved the window so the player is off-screen!     put the rect of player "myPlayer" into tRect     export snapshot from rect tRect of window (the windowID of this stack) to tImage as PNG     put tImage into img "myImage" As I need to grab multiple specific frames of video as a series of images behind the scenes for any analysis/report, I can not have the player visible while the user is running the analysis. Current the code hides the player controller. The player is on a non-visible stack and the video is associated with that hidden player. A loop then sets the currentTime of the player to various points based on clips provided by the researcher and takes an image of each frame that currentTime is set to. This works on macOS and in some prior versions of LC and/or Windows, worked on Windows as well and now in LC 9.6.7 on WIn 10/11 it does not. On 4/27/2022 6:21 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > I am executing the following 2 lines of code: > >               export snapshot from rect tRect of player "mediaConvert" > of stack "libHrAPI" to tImage as PNG >               put tImage into img "imageConvert" of stack "libHrAPI" > > Prior to the export the player has a video load and has the > currentTime set to a particular frame, and I can see in the stack that > the player is showing the correct frame is visible. > I can also see that the image "imageConvert" is also visible, but empty > > After the Export Snapshot is executed, it looks like tImage contains > valid PNG data, although I can not tell if it is the correct image > After the Put statement, the image "imageConvert" is set to a white > rectangle with a little bit of the player border on the left and top. > It is the same size as the player where as the empty image I started > with was larger. > > This is with LC 9.6.7 on Windows 10. This code works on macOS. Does > anyone know if there is a known Windows bug with export a snapshot > form a player and any work around? > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mark at canelasoftware.com Fri Apr 29 15:46:44 2022 From: mark at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 12:46:44 -0700 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: <2E440010-19A3-46D7-9445-A6EB84CA309C@iotecdigital.com> References: <28c5f8d6-e034-ee63-1565-b72b25adadc7@sonic.net> <378fd701-439d-6447-3743-b93652a85d4d@fourthworld.com> <764776F4-9C13-40E1-ACF0-6B52AA528A19@iotecdigital.com> <4910EBCA-6E93-4ECA-8E3C-28E2E2242975@canelasoftware.com> <2E440010-19A3-46D7-9445-A6EB84CA309C@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Hi Bob, I am happy to say that Richard Gaskin is our first 3rd party provider. He wants to make connections for many things external. Databases is top on the list the last time we spoke. I’ll ping him to chime in with more details. Best regards, Mark Talluto appli.io livecloud.io nursenotes.net canelasoftware.com > On Apr 29, 2022, at 10:51 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > Thanks for the Clarification Mark. I'm curious, is there a way to connect to data sources other then the Appli cloud storage? I ask because this was looking like a really good way to port a reduced functionality version of my Forms Generator to some kind of web portal without actually having to develop the web side of things. If I could demonstrate the ability to generate signable PDFs, I might be able to convince my employer to sign up for this. > > Bob S From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat Apr 30 13:37:42 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2022 10:37:42 -0700 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8ffac9ac-7b88-4fee-cf39-d526a18b90bd@fourthworld.com> Mark Talluto wrote: > I am happy to say that Richard Gaskin is our first 3rd party provider. > He wants to make connections for many things external. Databases is > top on the list the last time we spoke. Ill ping him to chime in with > more details. Thank you, Mark. The current vision for the plugin is to provide at least basic CRUD operations for SQL DBs, which would of course mean MySQL with postgreSQL and MariaDB coming along for the ride. Some form of this could become an LC tool as well as an Appli component. The opportunity is obvious: it's nice to have a convenient UI for accessing organizational data ponds. The challenges are two-fold: providing consistent access across what may be a wide range of DB API styles depending on IT habits within prospective orgs, and authentication methods those orgs support. DB Access: The challenge with this is identifying applicable use cases. Where orgs using Appli or LiveCode may allow internal direct access to DBs, this is a relatively simple matter, as the socket comms for those are consistent. But most orgs use HTTP-based APIs for DB operations. This is popular even for internal use, and usually consider necessary for all connections from the open Internet. Over the coming months we'll be discussing needs with prospective customers to identify API patterns to see where we can provide a UI that allows them to easily drop in URLs needed for access. It may be that we'll have to offer a setup service to get less technically-inclined customers going, but some orgs may not provide external API access for internal APIs. We'll see how that unfolds as we learn more about use cases. Authentication: Where API authentication is done through httpBasic or OAuth2, LC's excellent support for both makes those straightforward. But many larger orgs use LDAP for authentication. So far I've not seen an LDAP library for LC, and having reviewed the LDAP specs it seems a task worth thinking about very carefully before committing to delivery. If any of you know of an LDAP authentication library for LC Script that would be very helpful. More to come as research on this unfolds... -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From panos.merakos at livecode.com Fri Apr 1 10:10:41 2022 From: panos.merakos at livecode.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2022 17:10:41 +0300 Subject: [ANN] Release 9.6.7 Message-ID: Dear list members, We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 9.6.7. You can find more details on the bug fixes and improvements of this new release here: https://livecode.com/9-6-7-stable-maintenance-release/ You can find the release in your LiveCode account area or get it via the automatic updater. Enjoy! Kind regards The LiveCode Team -- From mail at richard-hillen.de Fri Apr 1 12:07:54 2022 From: mail at richard-hillen.de (Hillen Richard) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2022 18:07:54 +0200 Subject: How to Do: Download per http In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Helo Paul, It works! Thank you! Richard. > > > On 3/31/2022 3:00 PM, Hillen Richard via use-livecode wrote: >> Hello, >> >> My Mac is by usb connected to an iPhone, on which is running the data-aggregator Phybox.app and aggregates the sensor-data of the internal acceleration-sensor. >> >> On Mac, when I write into the Safari address bar >> "http://192.168.178.66/export?format=1?, >> I receive the sampled data in a .xls-file by download from the iPhone-app. >> >> I would like to download this file by LiveCode. But I have no plan, how to do it. >> >> May you help? I am very grateful for tips. >> >> Richard. >> > > I think you can do: > > put URL "http://192.168.178.66/export?format=1" into URL > ("binfile:"&tLocalFile) -- where the variable tLocalFile contains the > file path to a new .xls file, such as > "/Users/Fred/Documents/mySensorData.xls" From curry at pair.com Fri Apr 1 12:24:00 2022 From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2022 12:24:00 -0400 Subject: [ANN] Release 9.6.7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: panos: > You can find more details on the bug fixes and improvements > of this new release here: > https://livecode.com/9-6-7-stable-maintenance-release/ Nice! Thanks for these fixes.... Best wishes, Curry Kenworthy WordLib: Import MS Word and OpenOffice files in LiveCode! "Dominate documents with WordLib and LC" http://livecodeaddons.com/wordlib.html Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development "Passion for Elegant and Efficient Code" http://livecodeconsulting.com/ From tom at makeshyft.com Sat Apr 2 00:42:29 2022 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2022 00:42:29 -0400 Subject: Debugger issues in 9.6.7 (unfolding array variables) Message-ID: Hi Folks, Today I upgraded my windows 10 LC installation to 9.6.7 and I'm finding I cannot unfold arrays while tracing code. I click and nothing happens. Anyone else? -- Tom Glod Founder & Developer @ MakeShyft R.D.A Build Software with AppStarterStack for Livecode Save Time with The Time Saver's Toolbox From paul at researchware.com Sat Apr 2 08:17:01 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2022 08:17:01 -0400 Subject: Debugger issues in 9.6.7 (unfolding array variables) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4f90c10a-0409-9e2f-2686-406a98bbfa51@researchware.com> On 4/2/2022 12:42 AM, Tom Glod via use-livecode wrote: > Hi Folks, > > Today I upgraded my windows 10 LC installation to 9.6.7 > and I'm finding I cannot unfold arrays while tracing code. > I click and nothing happens. > Anyone else? > I'm on Windows 10 (Dell AMD Ryzen 5) and just tested LC 9.6.7 STABLE with the following button script: on mouseUp pMouseButton   local tArray   put "A" into tArray[1]   put "B" into tArray[2]   put "C" into tArray[3]   --   wait 0 with messages end mouseUp With a debug point on the Wait statement. Clicking the button, opens the debugger and I can inspect the array, seeing all 3 elements, so it's working here for me. From tom at makeshyft.com Sat Apr 2 12:05:17 2022 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2022 12:05:17 -0400 Subject: Debugger issues in 9.6.7 (unfolding array variables) In-Reply-To: <4f90c10a-0409-9e2f-2686-406a98bbfa51@researchware.com> References: <4f90c10a-0409-9e2f-2686-406a98bbfa51@researchware.com> Message-ID: Thanks Paul. I'm going to work on creating a recipe. On Sat, Apr 2, 2022 at 8:18 AM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 4/2/2022 12:42 AM, Tom Glod via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Folks, > > > > Today I upgraded my windows 10 LC installation to 9.6.7 > > and I'm finding I cannot unfold arrays while tracing code. > > I click and nothing happens. > > Anyone else? > > > > I'm on Windows 10 (Dell AMD Ryzen 5) and just tested LC 9.6.7 STABLE > with the following button script: > on mouseUp pMouseButton > local tArray > put "A" into tArray[1] > put "B" into tArray[2] > put "C" into tArray[3] > -- > wait 0 with messages > end mouseUp > > With a debug point on the Wait statement. Clicking the button, opens the > debugger and I can inspect the array, seeing all 3 elements, so it's > working here for me. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Mon Apr 4 08:08:02 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 14:08:02 +0200 Subject: Hey Lurkers: Anyone still using LC 6.7? (Regulars too) In-Reply-To: <4FBE1931-F83B-401B-A895-0BDBF9B6DE19@gmail.com> References: <9a3bec49-4ffb-0078-27c7-4a3d60a1951c@pair.com> <4FBE1931-F83B-401B-A895-0BDBF9B6DE19@gmail.com> Message-ID: <70269A05-3645-4FC6-8E1D-F53BC1AB8052@m-r-d.de> > Am 10.03.2022 um 20:39 schrieb doc hawk via use-livecode : > > Gosh, I never got *any* version of 6 to work well enough to use! > Really? I've updated old and created new apps with different versions of LC6 w/o any big problems. The apps do db stuff (MSSQL and MySQL), FTP uploads/downloads, dp post/get requests and we used LC Server 6 on our webserver for several tasks e.g form processing, db communication, handling post requests and others. That all worked fine here. As soon as a new version, even DP, comes out and if time allows, i try to create at least our in-house apps with the new version. Firstly this helps to find bugs in the new version, at least in the areas our apps are using, and secondly, it ensures also that our apps can also be created with that new version. That above is, of course, not to say that others did not have problems with LC6. Just wanted to share my experience with 6 Matthias > :) > > There’s still switches in my code for 5, but there are enough other uses of later features of 7+ that it’s a non-issue. > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From benr_mc at cogapp.com Mon Apr 4 09:26:58 2022 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 14:26:58 +0100 Subject: Can't get jsonToArray in standalones ? Message-ID: Building a standalone that uses jsonToArray. Works fine in the IDE. If I use "search for required inclusions" when building the standaline, then when the script calls jsonToArray it throws error 219 (Function: error in function handler). If I use "select inclusions", and check "JSON Library", then it crashes. Interestingly, if I *uncheck* "JSON Library" from the inclusions, then it also crashes! (I expected it would throw error 219.) This is the same on LC 9.6.6 and 9.6.7; and (at least the crash) same on both Mac and Windows. My best guess is that I need to have something else checked in the inclusions - any suggestions? TIA, Ben From merakosp at gmail.com Mon Apr 4 10:08:48 2022 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis m) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 17:08:48 +0300 Subject: Can't get jsonToArray in standalones ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Ben, You need to check megJSON. The JSON Library inclusion is for JSONImport and JSONExport handlers. Cheers, Panos On Mon, 4 Apr 2022, 16:28 Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode, < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Building a standalone that uses jsonToArray. > > Works fine in the IDE. > > If I use "search for required inclusions" when building the standaline, > then > when the script calls jsonToArray it throws error 219 (Function: error in > function handler). > > If I use "select inclusions", and check "JSON Library", then it crashes. > > Interestingly, if I *uncheck* "JSON Library" from the inclusions, then it > also > crashes! (I expected it would throw error 219.) > > This is the same on LC 9.6.6 and 9.6.7; and (at least the crash) same on > both > Mac and Windows. > > My best guess is that I need to have something else checked in the > inclusions > - any suggestions? > > TIA, > > Ben > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From merakosp at gmail.com Mon Apr 4 10:09:40 2022 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis m) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 17:09:40 +0300 Subject: Can't get jsonToArray in standalones ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I mean mergJSON, not megJSON :) Cheers, Panos On Mon, 4 Apr 2022, 17:08 panagiotis m, wrote: > Hello Ben, > > You need to check megJSON. > > The JSON Library inclusion is for JSONImport and JSONExport handlers. > > Cheers, > Panos > > On Mon, 4 Apr 2022, 16:28 Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode, < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Building a standalone that uses jsonToArray. >> >> Works fine in the IDE. >> >> If I use "search for required inclusions" when building the standaline, >> then >> when the script calls jsonToArray it throws error 219 (Function: error in >> function handler). >> >> If I use "select inclusions", and check "JSON Library", then it crashes. >> >> Interestingly, if I *uncheck* "JSON Library" from the inclusions, then it >> also >> crashes! (I expected it would throw error 219.) >> >> This is the same on LC 9.6.6 and 9.6.7; and (at least the crash) same on >> both >> Mac and Windows. >> >> My best guess is that I need to have something else checked in the >> inclusions >> - any suggestions? >> >> TIA, >> >> Ben >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Mon Apr 4 10:15:01 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 16:15:01 +0200 Subject: Can't get jsonToArray in standalones ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <346AD107-68C8-41E4-9BE7-34760F796496@m-r-d.de> Panos, is there a reason why mergJSON is not listed in the dictionary anymore in LC 9.6.6,9.6.7, 10DDP2, 10DP3? Matthias > Am 04.04.2022 um 16:08 schrieb panagiotis m via use-livecode : > > Hello Ben, > > You need to check megJSON. > > The JSON Library inclusion is for JSONImport and JSONExport handlers. > > Cheers, > Panos > > On Mon, 4 Apr 2022, 16:28 Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode, < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Building a standalone that uses jsonToArray. >> >> Works fine in the IDE. >> >> If I use "search for required inclusions" when building the standaline, >> then >> when the script calls jsonToArray it throws error 219 (Function: error in >> function handler). >> >> If I use "select inclusions", and check "JSON Library", then it crashes. >> >> Interestingly, if I *uncheck* "JSON Library" from the inclusions, then it >> also >> crashes! (I expected it would throw error 219.) >> >> This is the same on LC 9.6.6 and 9.6.7; and (at least the crash) same on >> both >> Mac and Windows. >> >> My best guess is that I need to have something else checked in the >> inclusions >> - any suggestions? >> >> TIA, >> >> Ben >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From harrison at all-auctions.com Mon Apr 4 11:11:09 2022 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 11:11:09 -0400 Subject: Hey Lurkers: Anyone still using LC 6.7? (Regulars too) In-Reply-To: <70269A05-3645-4FC6-8E1D-F53BC1AB8052@m-r-d.de> References: <9a3bec49-4ffb-0078-27c7-4a3d60a1951c@pair.com> <4FBE1931-F83B-401B-A895-0BDBF9B6DE19@gmail.com> <70269A05-3645-4FC6-8E1D-F53BC1AB8052@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <312AF7AF-ABE8-4F22-8CC2-512439C5DD0D@all-auctions.com> Ah, the old days of LC 6.7 when LiveCode was fast. How much I miss that! Hopefully our new compiler when it comes out will make me feel that LC 6.7 was really slow. Thanks for the walk down memory lane! Rick From klaus at major-k.de Mon Apr 4 11:45:32 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 17:45:32 +0200 Subject: launch tFile with tApp Message-ID: <2ED289C6-969A-46AE-9013-CD3AD97B3EE0@major-k.de> Hi friends, macOS 10.3, LC 9.6.7 I have e.g. a MP3 file and want to open it with "Quicktime Player.app": ... ## tPrompt contains a localized string, of course answer file tPrompt with specialfolderpath("apps") with type "|app|" put it into tApp ## I select QTPLayer.app if the result = "cancel" then exit to top end if ## tDatei holds the complete path to the MP3 ## tApp the path to QTPlayer.app launch tDatei with tApp put the result ... It will open the MP3 with QTPlayer as desired BUT it also opens the file with "iTunes/Music" additionally!? And I don't want that! :-D The result is EMPTY. Bug or feature? And can I avoid to also open the file with "Music"? Thanks in advance! Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From klaus at major-k.de Mon Apr 4 12:06:24 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 18:06:24 +0200 Subject: launch tFile with tApp In-Reply-To: <2ED289C6-969A-46AE-9013-CD3AD97B3EE0@major-k.de> References: <2ED289C6-969A-46AE-9013-CD3AD97B3EE0@major-k.de> Message-ID: <2164F724-6816-4589-82FC-C87BCE0ED887@major-k.de> > Am 04.04.2022 um 17:45 schrieb Klaus major-k : > > Hi friends, > > macOS 10.3, LC 9.6.7 sorry, I mean macOS 12.3 > > I have e.g. a MP3 file and want to open it with "Quicktime Player.app": > ... > ## tPrompt contains a localized string, of course > answer file tPrompt with specialfolderpath("apps") with type "|app|" > put it into tApp > ## I select QTPLayer.app > if the result = "cancel" then > exit to top > end if > ## tDatei holds the complete path to the MP3 > ## tApp the path to QTPlayer.app > launch tDatei with tApp > put the result > ... > > It will open the MP3 with QTPlayer as desired BUT > it also opens the file with "iTunes/Music" additionally!? > And I don't want that! :-D > > The result is EMPTY. > > Bug or feature? > And can I avoid to also open the file with "Music"? > > Thanks in advance! > > > Best > > Klaus > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > https://www.major-k.de/bass > klaus at major-k.de From klaus at major-k.de Mon Apr 4 12:10:05 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 18:10:05 +0200 Subject: launch file with app Message-ID: <4643D19B-7CC1-4F1C-A1AF-FEFE955B73CB@major-k.de> Hi friends, macOS 12.3, LC 9.6.7 I have e.g. a MP3 file and want to open it with "Quicktime Player.app": ... ## tPrompt contains a localized string, of course answer file tPrompt with specialfolderpath("apps") with type "|app|" put it into tApp ## I select QTPLayer.app if the result = "cancel" then exit to top end if ## tDatei holds the complete path to the MP3 ## tApp the path to QTPlayer.app launch tDatei with tApp put the result ... It will open the MP3 with QTPlayer as desired BUT it also opens the file with "iTunes/Music" additionally!? And I don't want that! :-D The result is EMPTY. Bug or feature? And can I avoid to also open the file with "Music"? Thanks in advance! Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From merakosp at gmail.com Mon Apr 4 13:03:18 2022 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis m) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 20:03:18 +0300 Subject: Can't get jsonToArray in standalones ? In-Reply-To: <346AD107-68C8-41E4-9BE7-34760F796496@m-r-d.de> References: <346AD107-68C8-41E4-9BE7-34760F796496@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: Hello Matthias, Hmm, this sounds like a bug. Thanks for spotting it and filing the report :) Kind regards, Panos On Mon, 4 Apr 2022, 17:15 matthias rebbe via use-livecode, < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Panos, > > is there a reason why mergJSON is not listed in the dictionary anymore in > LC 9.6.6,9.6.7, 10DDP2, 10DP3? > > Matthias > > > Am 04.04.2022 um 16:08 schrieb panagiotis m via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: > > > > Hello Ben, > > > > You need to check megJSON. > > > > The JSON Library inclusion is for JSONImport and JSONExport handlers. > > > > Cheers, > > Panos > > > > On Mon, 4 Apr 2022, 16:28 Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode, < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > >> Building a standalone that uses jsonToArray. > >> > >> Works fine in the IDE. > >> > >> If I use "search for required inclusions" when building the standaline, > >> then > >> when the script calls jsonToArray it throws error 219 (Function: error > in > >> function handler). > >> > >> If I use "select inclusions", and check "JSON Library", then it crashes. > >> > >> Interestingly, if I *uncheck* "JSON Library" from the inclusions, then > it > >> also > >> crashes! (I expected it would throw error 219.) > >> > >> This is the same on LC 9.6.6 and 9.6.7; and (at least the crash) same on > >> both > >> Mac and Windows. > >> > >> My best guess is that I need to have something else checked in the > >> inclusions > >> - any suggestions? > >> > >> TIA, > >> > >> Ben > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From keith.clarke at me.com Mon Apr 4 13:03:27 2022 From: keith.clarke at me.com (Keith Clarke) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 18:03:27 +0100 Subject: Tools & techniques for one-off consolidation of multiple 'similar' CSV files? Message-ID: <83272CB1-BDD0-4DAB-9F20-6BECAF92A18B@me.com> Hi folks, I need to consolidate a couple of hundred CSV files of varying sizes (dozens to hundreds of rows) and column structures (some shared columns but many unique), into a single superset dataset that comprises all data from all files. There are too many files and columns to attempt a manual process, so in I’ve been trying to achieve this with LiveCode - by iterating through the files to parse the column header rows into into row template and column mapping arrays used to build the combined table. However, I'm struggling to both compile the superset and render the results. I feel I may be designing a very complicated solution for a problem that has probably been solved before. I wonder if I’m missing a simpler method - with LiveCode or perhaps with Excel or ‘drag & drop’ into some kind of self-organising database GUI for SQLite, etc? Thanks in advance for any ideas. Best, Keith From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Mon Apr 4 13:29:23 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 13:29:23 -0400 Subject: Tools & techniques for one-off consolidation of multiple 'similar' CSV files? In-Reply-To: <83272CB1-BDD0-4DAB-9F20-6BECAF92A18B@me.com> References: <83272CB1-BDD0-4DAB-9F20-6BECAF92A18B@me.com> Message-ID: keith, are all the files structured the same way? are they all gathered in the same place? LC's big strength, IMHO, is text handling, so you're right in its wheelhouse. for the simplest example, let's assume that all the files have all the same column layout and they're all in the same folder. in that case, you would * grab the list of files in the folder * exclude files that shouldn't be included - maybe filter everything that doesn't have a .csv suffix. you could do this during the loop, below, or ahead of time. * iterate through the files by reading each one, and appending the contents to a variable/container (if you do this, don't forget to make sure that when you append each file, the last line ends with a line delimiter) * create a new file * save the variable/container to the file slightly more complicated: the layouts aren't the same you can either: * rearrange the columns upon reading the file or * use something like an sqlite db and create a record for each row, assigning the column in each record based on the column name in the csv file, or * use a LC array, using the column names in the file as the keys of the array. * create a new file * output the result of whichever of the three solutions you chose to the new file. both the easy and less-easy scenarios should take, i'm guessing, somewhere between twenty and fifty lines of code, and are easy to implement. if you have a couple hundred files, i think that the LC solution would be much faster and easier to write, test, and run than the drag-and-drop solution. On Mon, Apr 4, 2022 at 1:04 PM Keith Clarke via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi folks, > I need to consolidate a couple of hundred CSV files of varying sizes > (dozens to hundreds of rows) and column structures (some shared columns but > many unique), into a single superset dataset that comprises all data from > all files. > > There are too many files and columns to attempt a manual process, so in > I’ve been trying to achieve this with LiveCode - by iterating through the > files to parse the column header rows into into row template and column > mapping arrays used to build the combined table. However, I'm struggling to > both compile the superset and render the results. > > I feel I may be designing a very complicated solution for a problem that > has probably been solved before. I wonder if I’m missing a simpler method - > with LiveCode or perhaps with Excel or ‘drag & drop’ into some kind of > self-organising database GUI for SQLite, etc? > > Thanks in advance for any ideas. > Best, > Keith > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon Apr 4 13:37:46 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 17:37:46 +0000 Subject: Tools & techniques for one-off consolidation of multiple 'similar' CSV files? In-Reply-To: References: <83272CB1-BDD0-4DAB-9F20-6BECAF92A18B@me.com> Message-ID: <3BDE48DB-FBA8-4CE1-8374-7F644A6DE02A@iotecdigital.com> Does all the data need to be in a single table? Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 4, 2022, at 10:31, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > keith, > are all the files structured the same way? are they all gathered in the > same place? > LC's big strength, IMHO, is text handling, so you're right in its > wheelhouse. > for the simplest example, let's assume that all the files have all the same > column layout and they're all in the same folder. > in that case, you would > * grab the list of files in the folder > * exclude files that shouldn't be included - maybe filter everything > that doesn't have a .csv suffix. you could do this during the loop, below, > or ahead of time. > * iterate through the files by reading each one, and appending the contents > to a variable/container (if you do this, don't forget to make sure that > when you append each file, the last line ends with a line delimiter) > * create a new file > * save the variable/container to the file > > slightly more complicated: the layouts aren't the same > you can either: > * rearrange the columns upon reading the file or > * use something like an sqlite db and create a record for each row, > assigning the column in each record based on the column name in the csv > file, or > * use a LC array, using the column names in the file as the keys of the > array. > * create a new file > * output the result of whichever of the three solutions you chose to the > new file. > > both the easy and less-easy scenarios should take, i'm guessing, somewhere > between twenty and fifty lines of code, and are easy to implement. if you > have a couple hundred files, i think that the LC solution would be much > faster and easier to write, test, and run than the drag-and-drop solution. > >> On Mon, Apr 4, 2022 at 1:04 PM Keith Clarke via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >> Hi folks, >> I need to consolidate a couple of hundred CSV files of varying sizes >> (dozens to hundreds of rows) and column structures (some shared columns but >> many unique), into a single superset dataset that comprises all data from >> all files. >> >> There are too many files and columns to attempt a manual process, so in >> I’ve been trying to achieve this with LiveCode - by iterating through the >> files to parse the column header rows into into row template and column >> mapping arrays used to build the combined table. However, I'm struggling to >> both compile the superset and render the results. >> >> I feel I may be designing a very complicated solution for a problem that >> has probably been solved before. I wonder if I’m missing a simpler method - >> with LiveCode or perhaps with Excel or ‘drag & drop’ into some kind of >> self-organising database GUI for SQLite, etc? >> >> Thanks in advance for any ideas. >> Best, >> Keith >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From craig at starfirelighting.com Mon Apr 4 15:58:15 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 15:58:15 -0400 Subject: Tools & techniques for one-off consolidation of multiple 'similar' CSV files? In-Reply-To: <3BDE48DB-FBA8-4CE1-8374-7F644A6DE02A@iotecdigital.com> References: <83272CB1-BDD0-4DAB-9F20-6BECAF92A18B@me.com> <3BDE48DB-FBA8-4CE1-8374-7F644A6DE02A@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Hi. I rarely deal with the csv monster, but every time I have had to it all boiled down to the fact that a comma is a terrible character to use as a delimiter of ANY kind. Ideally it would be possible to simply replace every comma with a tab. The returns remain untouched. If that works, you are very lucky. Have you tried it? Craig > On Apr 4, 2022, at 1:37 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > Does all the data need to be in a single table? > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Apr 4, 2022, at 10:31, Mike Kerner via use-livecode > wrote: >> >> keith, >> are all the files structured the same way? are they all gathered in the >> same place? >> LC's big strength, IMHO, is text handling, so you're right in its >> wheelhouse. >> for the simplest example, let's assume that all the files have all the same >> column layout and they're all in the same folder. >> in that case, you would >> * grab the list of files in the folder >> * exclude files that shouldn't be included - maybe filter everything >> that doesn't have a .csv suffix. you could do this during the loop, below, >> or ahead of time. >> * iterate through the files by reading each one, and appending the contents >> to a variable/container (if you do this, don't forget to make sure that >> when you append each file, the last line ends with a line delimiter) >> * create a new file >> * save the variable/container to the file >> >> slightly more complicated: the layouts aren't the same >> you can either: >> * rearrange the columns upon reading the file or >> * use something like an sqlite db and create a record for each row, >> assigning the column in each record based on the column name in the csv >> file, or >> * use a LC array, using the column names in the file as the keys of the >> array. >> * create a new file >> * output the result of whichever of the three solutions you chose to the >> new file. >> >> both the easy and less-easy scenarios should take, i'm guessing, somewhere >> between twenty and fifty lines of code, and are easy to implement. if you >> have a couple hundred files, i think that the LC solution would be much >> faster and easier to write, test, and run than the drag-and-drop solution. >> >>> On Mon, Apr 4, 2022 at 1:04 PM Keith Clarke via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > wrote: >>> >>> Hi folks, >>> I need to consolidate a couple of hundred CSV files of varying sizes >>> (dozens to hundreds of rows) and column structures (some shared columns but >>> many unique), into a single superset dataset that comprises all data from >>> all files. >>> >>> There are too many files and columns to attempt a manual process, so in >>> I’ve been trying to achieve this with LiveCode - by iterating through the >>> files to parse the column header rows into into row template and column >>> mapping arrays used to build the combined table. However, I'm struggling to >>> both compile the superset and render the results. >>> >>> I feel I may be designing a very complicated solution for a problem that >>> has probably been solved before. I wonder if I’m missing a simpler method - >>> with LiveCode or perhaps with Excel or ‘drag & drop’ into some kind of >>> self-organising database GUI for SQLite, etc? >>> >>> Thanks in advance for any ideas. >>> Best, >>> Keith >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> >> -- >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >> On the second day, God created the oceans. >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> and did a little diving. >> And God said, "This is good." >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From benr_mc at cogapp.com Mon Apr 4 17:55:09 2022 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 22:55:09 +0100 Subject: Tools & techniques for one-off consolidation of multiple 'similar' CSV files? In-Reply-To: <83272CB1-BDD0-4DAB-9F20-6BECAF92A18B@me.com> References: <83272CB1-BDD0-4DAB-9F20-6BECAF92A18B@me.com> Message-ID: <7bf90327-00ca-8154-41a3-74e420c4ee0a@cogapp.com> Hi Keith, I feel your pain. I spend a lot of time doing this kind of manipulation. I generally avoid CSV, the format of the devil. If necessary I have a library that does a reasonable job of converting CSV to TSV, and run everything through that. Let's just assume for now that you've already done this.... My technique is this: - given that you've got a routine to iterate over a folder or tree of files - given that you can easily treat a row at a time, and on each row can easily work through a column at a time (e.g., this is TSV, you've set the itemdelimiter to tab) - given that the first row in each file gives the column names 1. Maintain an ordered list of output column names I'd probably keep it in two formats: a string with tab separated column names, an array mapping column name to index, and a variable giving the number of columns. 2. For each file, go through the list of column names (the 'items' of the first row). For each one, if it's not already in the master list of column names (e.g., it's not in the array) then append it with a tab to the end of the string, and add it to the array with the appropriate index. Also keep an array mapping column index in _this_ file to column index in the master file. 3. Then for each row after that, start with an empty array. For each non-empty item on the row, add it to this 'row array', with the key being the index in the master file corresponding to this item's index in this file. 4. When you've got to the end of the row, dump the data from this array; index from 1 to number-of-master-columns, adding a tab between each. Then add this to the master file accumulator. So code would look something like this local tMasterColumns -- tab delimited column names for output 'master' file local aColumnNameToMasterIndex -- array mapping column name to index in above local iNumMasterColumns -- number of items in the above two local tMasterFileData -- will accumulate the rows of data for the output file local aFileIndexToMasterIndex -- for each file, maps index of column in file to index in master file local aRowData -- for each row, we first move data into this array... local tOutRow -- ...then output it into this string local iFileNumCols -- number of columns in the current input file local iFileColInx, iMasterColInx -- keep track of input and output col indices repeat for each file... load it into tFileData.. etc -- map the columns of this file to the (growing) columns of the masterfile put 0 into iFileColInx repeat for each item x in line 1 of tFileData add 1 to iFileColInx get aColumnNameToMasterIndex[x] if it = empty then put tab & x after tMasterColumns add 1 to iNumMasterColumns put iNumMasterColumns into aColumnNameToMasterIndex[x] get iNumMasterColumns end if -- now it is the index of this column in the master file put it into aFileIndexToMasterIndex[iFileColInx] end repeat delete line 1 of tFileData put iFileColInx into iFileNumCols repeat for each line tRowData in tFileData -- get data from the row into the proper columns put empty into aRowData repeat with i = 1 to iFileNumCols -- number of columns in this file put aFileIndexToMasterIndex[i] into iMasterColInx put item i of tRowData into aRowData[iMasterColInx] end repeat -- now dump the row put empty into tOutRow repeat with i = 1 to iNumMasterColumns put aRowData[i] & tab after tOutRow end repeat put (char 1 to -2 of tOutRow) \ -- delete last tab & return after tMasterFileData end repeat end repeat -- for each file -- finally save tMasterColumns & return & tMasterFileData On 04/04/2022 18:03, Keith Clarke via use-livecode wrote: > Hi folks, > I need to consolidate a couple of hundred CSV files of varying sizes (dozens to hundreds of rows) and column structures (some shared columns but many unique), into a single superset dataset that comprises all data from all files. > > There are too many files and columns to attempt a manual process, so in Ive been trying to achieve this with LiveCode - by iterating through the files to parse the column header rows into into row template and column mapping arrays used to build the combined table. However, I'm struggling to both compile the superset and render the results. > > I feel I may be designing a very complicated solution for a problem that has probably been solved before. I wonder if Im missing a simpler method - with LiveCode or perhaps with Excel or drag & drop into some kind of self-organising database GUI for SQLite, etc? > > Thanks in advance for any ideas. > Best, > Keith > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon Apr 4 18:40:23 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 22:40:23 +0000 Subject: Tools & techniques for one-off consolidation of multiple 'similar' CSV files? In-Reply-To: <3BDE48DB-FBA8-4CE1-8374-7F644A6DE02A@iotecdigital.com> References: <83272CB1-BDD0-4DAB-9F20-6BECAF92A18B@me.com> <3BDE48DB-FBA8-4CE1-8374-7F644A6DE02A@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <734FF391-F6BC-40A8-8D97-7FB54B0F9685@iotecdigital.com> Okay no answer to my question so here is why I ask. SQL databases typically have a limit on how many columns you can have, and how many total bytes a record will take. If it is possible to import each CSV file as a separate table, that would be ideal. If not you need to make yourself aware of those limits, and if you are going to exceed them, then SQL is not the way to go. CSV format is OK if the text fields are enclosed in quotes, and the numeric fields can be enclosed in quotes or not, it doesn't matter. If text fields ARE enclosed in quotes, then Excel should be able to open it natively, even if there are commas in the field text, that is not as delimiters. Id the fields are NOT enclosed in quotes, and the field text DOES contain commas, you are essentially screwed. Bob S > On Apr 4, 2022, at 10:37 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > Does all the data need to be in a single table? > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Apr 4, 2022, at 10:31, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: >> >> keith, >> are all the files structured the same way? are they all gathered in the >> same place? >> LC's big strength, IMHO, is text handling, so you're right in its >> wheelhouse. >> for the simplest example, let's assume that all the files have all the same >> column layout and they're all in the same folder. >> in that case, you would >> * grab the list of files in the folder >> * exclude files that shouldn't be included - maybe filter everything >> that doesn't have a .csv suffix. you could do this during the loop, below, >> or ahead of time. >> * iterate through the files by reading each one, and appending the contents >> to a variable/container (if you do this, don't forget to make sure that >> when you append each file, the last line ends with a line delimiter) >> * create a new file >> * save the variable/container to the file >> >> slightly more complicated: the layouts aren't the same >> you can either: >> * rearrange the columns upon reading the file or >> * use something like an sqlite db and create a record for each row, >> assigning the column in each record based on the column name in the csv >> file, or >> * use a LC array, using the column names in the file as the keys of the >> array. >> * create a new file >> * output the result of whichever of the three solutions you chose to the >> new file. >> >> both the easy and less-easy scenarios should take, i'm guessing, somewhere >> between twenty and fifty lines of code, and are easy to implement. if you >> have a couple hundred files, i think that the LC solution would be much >> faster and easier to write, test, and run than the drag-and-drop solution. >> >>> On Mon, Apr 4, 2022 at 1:04 PM Keith Clarke via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>> Hi folks, >>> I need to consolidate a couple of hundred CSV files of varying sizes >>> (dozens to hundreds of rows) and column structures (some shared columns but >>> many unique), into a single superset dataset that comprises all data from >>> all files. >>> >>> There are too many files and columns to attempt a manual process, so in >>> I’ve been trying to achieve this with LiveCode - by iterating through the >>> files to parse the column header rows into into row template and column >>> mapping arrays used to build the combined table. However, I'm struggling to >>> both compile the superset and render the results. >>> >>> I feel I may be designing a very complicated solution for a problem that >>> has probably been solved before. I wonder if I’m missing a simpler method - >>> with LiveCode or perhaps with Excel or ‘drag & drop’ into some kind of >>> self-organising database GUI for SQLite, etc? >>> >>> Thanks in advance for any ideas. >>> Best, >>> Keith >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> >> -- >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >> On the second day, God created the oceans. >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> and did a little diving. >> And God said, "This is good." >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From curry at pair.com Mon Apr 4 22:49:27 2022 From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 22:49:27 -0400 Subject: Hey Lurkers: Anyone still using LC 6.7? (Regulars too) In-Reply-To: <312AF7AF-ABE8-4F22-8CC2-512439C5DD0D@all-auctions.com> References: <312AF7AF-ABE8-4F22-8CC2-512439C5DD0D@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: <45c224bf-375d-61e9-2b95-056df0f3fa63@pair.com> Me: > I would like to know if some people still need LC 6.7. BTW, I will support LC 6.7 in most addons for 2022-2023! A few users still need it. Plus I like to benchmark with it and perform some debugging there. (After mid-2023, I'll gradually start moving past 6.7.) Rick: > Ah, the old days of LC 6.7 when LiveCode was fast. > How much I miss that! Yes! But LC 9 is getting there with optimization lately. Once a version of LC 9/10 beats LC 6.7 on most tasks, that will become my new benchmark to beat. Matthias: > I've updated old and created new apps with different > versions of LC6 w/o any big problems. Same here, for me LC 6.7 was more stable than 5, 7, or 8. All of which I also used for projects. 9 is pretty good. Best wishes, Curry Kenworthy WordLib: Import MS Word and OpenOffice files in LiveCode! "Dominate documents with WordLib and LC" http://livecodeaddons.com/wordlib.html Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development "Passion for Elegant and Efficient Code" http://livecodeconsulting.com/ From dick.kriesel at mail.com Tue Apr 5 00:43:11 2022 From: dick.kriesel at mail.com (Dick Kriesel) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 21:43:11 -0700 Subject: Confirm sort container order... In-Reply-To: References: <4a411e1c-2f2d-662d-92f8-786c002e931a@researchware.com> <146ED04A-C712-4CCE-92B1-C203D5BE36F4@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: > On Mar 30, 2022, at 2:16 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > > sort lines of tText by word 1 of each & word 2 of each & word 3 of each Hi, Paul. The only feature missing is padding the first two words: sort tText by pad( word 1 of each ) & pad( word 2 of each ) & word 3 of each function pad tString put "" into item 1000 of tString replace comma with space in tString return char 1 to 1000 of tString Does that work for you? — Dick From klaus at major-k.de Tue Apr 5 05:07:30 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 11:07:30 +0200 Subject: launch file with app In-Reply-To: <4643D19B-7CC1-4F1C-A1AF-FEFE955B73CB@major-k.de> References: <4643D19B-7CC1-4F1C-A1AF-FEFE955B73CB@major-k.de> Message-ID: <220E18B6-5E07-431A-95A1-FF6274565810@major-k.de> Hi all, > Am 04.04.2022 um 18:10 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode : > > Hi friends, > > macOS 12.3, LC 9.6.7 > > I have e.g. a MP3 file and want to open it with "Quicktime Player.app": > ... > ## tPrompt contains a localized string, of course > answer file tPrompt with specialfolderpath("apps") with type "|app|" > put it into tApp > ## I select QTPLayer.app > if the result = "cancel" then > exit to top > end if > ## tDatei holds the complete path to the MP3 > ## tApp the path to QTPlayer.app > launch tDatei with tApp > put the result > ... > > It will open the MP3 with QTPlayer as desired BUT > it also opens the file with "iTunes/Music" additionally!? > And I don't want that! :-D > > The result is EMPTY. must have been a temporary "glitch" since it did not happen today. And a HTML file was opened with "TextEdit.app" as expected and did not start "Safari". But will keep an eye on this! 8-) Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From klaus at major-k.de Tue Apr 5 05:08:05 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 11:08:05 +0200 Subject: launch tFile with tApp In-Reply-To: <2ED289C6-969A-46AE-9013-CD3AD97B3EE0@major-k.de> References: <2ED289C6-969A-46AE-9013-CD3AD97B3EE0@major-k.de> Message-ID: Hi all, > Am 04.04.2022 um 18:10 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode : > > Hi friends, > > macOS 12.3, LC 9.6.7 > > I have e.g. a MP3 file and want to open it with "Quicktime Player.app": > ... > ## tPrompt contains a localized string, of course > answer file tPrompt with specialfolderpath("apps") with type "|app|" > put it into tApp > ## I select QTPLayer.app > if the result = "cancel" then > exit to top > end if > ## tDatei holds the complete path to the MP3 > ## tApp the path to QTPlayer.app > launch tDatei with tApp > put the result > ... > > It will open the MP3 with QTPlayer as desired BUT > it also opens the file with "iTunes/Music" additionally!? > And I don't want that! :-D > > The result is EMPTY. must have been a temporary "glitch" since it did not happen today. And a HTML file was opened with "TextEdit.app" as expected and did not start "Safari". But will keep an eye on this! 8-) Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From craig at starfirelighting.com Tue Apr 5 09:31:07 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 09:31:07 -0400 Subject: Confirm sort container order... In-Reply-To: References: <4a411e1c-2f2d-662d-92f8-786c002e931a@researchware.com> <146ED04A-C712-4CCE-92B1-C203D5BE36F4@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: Time to check the forum. Bernd has made a very significant contribution. https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=36893 > On Apr 5, 2022, at 12:43 AM, Dick Kriesel via use-livecode wrote: > > >> On Mar 30, 2022, at 2:16 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: >> >> sort lines of tText by word 1 of each & word 2 of each & word 3 of each > > Hi, Paul. > > The only feature missing is padding the first two words: > > sort tText by pad( word 1 of each ) & pad( word 2 of each ) & word 3 of each > > > function pad tString > put "" into item 1000 of tString > replace comma with space in tString > return char 1 to 1000 of tString > > > Does that work for you? > > — Dick > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Tue Apr 5 10:43:29 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 10:43:29 -0400 Subject: Confirm sort container order... In-Reply-To: References: <4a411e1c-2f2d-662d-92f8-786c002e931a@researchware.com> <9B2F81C6-CB3D-4D2C-A62F-A402E52CBF48@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: <1ef8a4a4-662e-d49a-0cd4-cbdc62dee5f6@researchware.com> All those forum efforts (except Richard's) ignore that the dictionary entry states that the "sort" command is a stable sort precisely so that you can do multiple sorts to sort by multiple chunks Whether you do   sort lines of tText by word 3 of each   sort lines of tText by word 2 of each   sort lines of tText by word 1 of each or repeat from i = 3 down to 1   sort lines of tText by word i of each end repeat and whether you want to sort by "word i of each" or "item i of each" or "token i of each" or whatever, the multiple sort commands is the LC recommended way to perform  multi-level sort. On 3/30/2022 4:16 PM, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: > I hate that one cannot edit previous posts here like we can on the forum. > > I meant tabs. not tase. > > Craig > >> On Mar 30, 2022, at 4:15 PM, Craig Newman wrote: >> >> I am assuming here that there are spaces separating the chars in your list. The use of words will also delimit if those are tase instead of spaces. But the method is worth exploring >> >> Craig >> >>> On Mar 30, 2022, at 3:39 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode > wrote: >>> >>> A B C >>> A A B >>> A B A >>> A A A >>> A A C > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From craig at starfirelighting.com Tue Apr 5 10:58:22 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 10:58:22 -0400 Subject: Confirm sort container order... In-Reply-To: <1ef8a4a4-662e-d49a-0cd4-cbdc62dee5f6@researchware.com> References: <4a411e1c-2f2d-662d-92f8-786c002e931a@researchware.com> <9B2F81C6-CB3D-4D2C-A62F-A402E52CBF48@starfirelighting.com> <1ef8a4a4-662e-d49a-0cd4-cbdc62dee5f6@researchware.com> Message-ID: <6696E2A0-72AA-45DF-A96A-623B0CE5195F@starfirelighting.com> Paul. Certainly, and in the forum discussion your point, about the mainstream, recommended and “correct” way to sort was mentioned several times. The discussion may seem academic to some, and perhaps pointless to others. But I like this sort of nonsense, and actually believe it is rather more than just that. In fact, it speaks to the internal working of the “sort” command itself, which seems counterintuitive at least, and a mystery at best. I like LC mysteries. And there just might be something worthwhile to learn... Craig > On Apr 5, 2022, at 10:43 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > > All those forum efforts (except Richard's) ignore that the dictionary entry states that the "sort" command is a stable sort precisely so that you can do multiple sorts to sort by multiple chunks > > Whether you do > > sort lines of tText by word 3 of each > sort lines of tText by word 2 of each > sort lines of tText by word 1 of each > > or > > repeat from i = 3 down to 1 > sort lines of tText by word i of each > end repeat > > and whether you want to sort by "word i of each" or "item i of each" or "token i of each" or whatever, the multiple sort commands is the LC recommended way to perform multi-level sort. > > > On 3/30/2022 4:16 PM, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: >> I hate that one cannot edit previous posts here like we can on the forum. >> >> I meant “tabs”. not “tase”. >> >> Craig >> >>> On Mar 30, 2022, at 4:15 PM, Craig Newman wrote: >>> >>> I am assuming here that there are spaces separating the chars in your list. The use of “words” will also delimit if those are tase instead of spaces. But the method is worth exploring… >>> >>> Craig >>> >>>> On Mar 30, 2022, at 3:39 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode > wrote: >>>> >>>> A B C >>>> A A B >>>> A B A >>>> A A A >>>> A A C >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From keith.clarke at me.com Tue Apr 5 12:02:30 2022 From: keith.clarke at me.com (Keith Clarke) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 17:02:30 +0100 Subject: CSV to TSV (was Re: Tools & techniques for one-off consolidation of multiple 'similar' CSV files?) In-Reply-To: References: <83272CB1-BDD0-4DAB-9F20-6BECAF92A18B@me.com> Message-ID: <4BF2491F-136C-44E3-A748-E03C29638F67@me.com> Hi folks, Thanks all for the responses and ideas on consolidating multiple CSV files into - much appreciated. Ben - Thank you for sharing your working recipe. This lifted my spirits as it showed I was on the right path (very nearly!) and you moved me on a big step from where I was stuck. My script was successfully iterating through folders and files, with filtering to get a file list of just CSVs with their paths for onward processing. I’d also identified the need to maintain registers of (growing) column names, together with a master row template and a mapping of the current file’s column headers in row-1 to the master to put align output columns. I got stuck when I set up nested repeat loops for files, then lines, then items and was trying to deal with row 1 column headers and data rows at the same time, which got rather confusing. Separating the column name processing from parsing row data made life a lot simpler and I’ve now got LC parsing the ~200 CSV files into a ~60,000 row TSV file that opens in Excel. However… I’m getting cells dropped into the wrong columns in the output file. So, I’m wondering if delimiters are broken in my CSV-to-TSV pre-processing. Can anyone spot any obvious errors or omissions in the following... -- convert from CSV to TSV replace tab with space in tFileData -- clear any tabs in the content before setting as a delimiter replace quote & comma & quote with tab in tFileData -- change delimiter for quoted values replace comma with tab in tFileData -- change delimiter for unquoted values replace quote with "" in tFileData -- clear quotes in first & last items set the itemDelimiter to tab Best, Keith From paul at researchware.com Tue Apr 5 12:08:42 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 12:08:42 -0400 Subject: Confirm sort container order... In-Reply-To: <6696E2A0-72AA-45DF-A96A-623B0CE5195F@starfirelighting.com> References: <4a411e1c-2f2d-662d-92f8-786c002e931a@researchware.com> <9B2F81C6-CB3D-4D2C-A62F-A402E52CBF48@starfirelighting.com> <1ef8a4a4-662e-d49a-0cd4-cbdc62dee5f6@researchware.com> <6696E2A0-72AA-45DF-A96A-623B0CE5195F@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: On 4/5/2022 10:58 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: > The discussion may seem academic to some, and perhaps pointless to others. But I like this sort of nonsense, and actually believe it is rather more than just that. In fact, it speaks to the internal working of the sort command itself, which seems counterintuitive at least, and a mystery at best. > > I certainly agree a nice enhancement to sort would be something like sort lines of by item 3 of each then [by] item 2 of each then [by] item 1 of each to replicate exactly (below) but in a single, easier to read, line sort lines of by item 3 of each sort lines of by item 2 of each sort lines of by item 1 of each a reduction in code and a more intuitive way of stating a multi-level sort with the addition of a "then", "then by", or some sort of delimiter keyword Still that assumes you want to do an ascending text sort for all 3 levels, since ascending text is the default and the syntax is sort lines ascending text by item 3 of each If you want different sorts for each key sort lines of ascending text by item 3 of each sort lines of descending numeric by item 2 of each sort lines of ascending international by item 1 of each might still be easier that any new syntax that reads something like: sort lines of by item 3 of each ascending text then by item 2 of each descending numeric then by item 1 of each ascending international Although the single line is slightly shorter code and still relatively easy to read. Still, I have NO idea how difficult it would be to add the syntax to the LC engine. If not too difficult to implement, it could be a handy enhancement to LC's sort. From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Tue Apr 5 12:09:08 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 12:09:08 -0400 Subject: CSV to TSV (was Re: Tools & techniques for one-off consolidation of multiple 'similar' CSV files?) In-Reply-To: <4BF2491F-136C-44E3-A748-E03C29638F67@me.com> References: <83272CB1-BDD0-4DAB-9F20-6BECAF92A18B@me.com> <4BF2491F-136C-44E3-A748-E03C29638F67@me.com> Message-ID: I'm confused by the code, above. If you are using tab as your column delimiter, then you wouldn't replace it with a space, since your tsv/csv files would have tabs in them when they were exported, originally. In any case, when you are going to replace a character with another character, you should make sure that the character you are replacing it to either a) does not have any special meaning (e.g. a delimiter) or b) if it does have a special meaning that it does not appear in the data, already. From keith.clarke at me.com Tue Apr 5 12:36:11 2022 From: keith.clarke at me.com (Keith Clarke) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 17:36:11 +0100 Subject: CSV to TSV (was Re: Tools & techniques for one-off consolidation of multiple 'similar' CSV files?) In-Reply-To: References: <83272CB1-BDD0-4DAB-9F20-6BECAF92A18B@me.com> <4BF2491F-136C-44E3-A748-E03C29638F67@me.com> Message-ID: This code sits early in the process of preparing CSV file data (from files that I didn’t create, so their content is unknown) into TSV text for onward processing. So, the logic here is attempting to address the very concerns that you raise, albeit in reverse order i.e. - remove any tab characters with (future) special meaning from the (CSV) data before introducing tabs as delimiters - to avoid false item-breaks downstream. - swap out the two forms of CSV delimiter (commas between quotes and commas) with the alternative tab delimiters …and finally clean up any orphan quotes left at the beginning of the first item in the line or end of the last. Best, Keith > On 5 Apr 2022, at 17:09, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > I'm confused by the code, above. If you are using tab as your column > delimiter, then you wouldn't replace it with a space, since your tsv/csv > files would have tabs in them when they were exported, originally. > In any case, when you are going to replace a character with another > character, you should make sure that the character you are replacing it to > either a) does not have any special meaning (e.g. a delimiter) or b) if it > does have a special meaning that it does not appear in the data, already. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From heather at livecode.com Tue Apr 5 12:54:20 2022 From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 17:54:20 +0100 Subject: Flash Talks - 3 slots remaining Message-ID: Dear Good Folks of the Use-list, I'm in the final throes of scheduling our upcoming online conference on 25-27th April. Its looking great! Multiple fabulous talks have come in, there is loads of rich content, we have panels, keynotes and workshops galore! We're just missing 3 flashtalks to round out the Flash Talks section on Day 3. I know at least 3 of you good people can speak for a mere 7 minutes on your topic of choice. Roll up roll up... and send me a talk submission :) Pretty please? https://livecode.com/global/apply-to-speak/ It's going to be a great event. Warmest Regards to all, Heather P.S. Where is the conference schedule to be seen, I hear you ask? Right here: https://livecode.com/global/schedule/ Heather Laine Customer Services Manager and Conference Organizer Extraordinaire LiveCode Ltd www.livecode.com From alex at tweedly.net Tue Apr 5 13:17:01 2022 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 18:17:01 +0100 Subject: CSV to TSV (was Re: Tools & techniques for one-off consolidation of multiple 'similar' CSV files?) In-Reply-To: <4BF2491F-136C-44E3-A748-E03C29638F67@me.com> References: <83272CB1-BDD0-4DAB-9F20-6BECAF92A18B@me.com> <4BF2491F-136C-44E3-A748-E03C29638F67@me.com> Message-ID: Hi Keith, that code will fail for any commas which occur within quoted entries - they will be wrongly converted to TABs I'd suggest getting cvsToTab (a community effort by Richard Gaskin, me and a whole host of others over the years) as a good starting place, and perhaps finishing place. It will handle most CSV oddities (not all of them - that is provably impossible :-). This does an efficient walk through the data, remembering whether it is inside or outside quoted entries, and hence handles commas accordingly. https://github.com/macMikey/csvToText/blob/master/csvToTab.livecodescript Alex. On 05/04/2022 17:02, Keith Clarke via use-livecode wrote: > Hi folks, > Thanks all for the responses and ideas on consolidating multiple CSV files into - much appreciated. > > Ben - Thank you for sharing your working recipe. This lifted my spirits as it showed I was on the right path (very nearly!) and you moved me on a big step from where I was stuck. > > My script was successfully iterating through folders and files, with filtering to get a file list of just CSVs with their paths for onward processing. Id also identified the need to maintain registers of (growing) column names, together with a master row template and a mapping of the current files column headers in row-1 to the master to put align output columns. I got stuck when I set up nested repeat loops for files, then lines, then items and was trying to deal with row 1 column headers and data rows at the same time, which got rather confusing. Separating the column name processing from parsing row data made life a lot simpler and Ive now got LC parsing the ~200 CSV files into a ~60,000 row TSV file that opens in Excel. > > However Im getting cells dropped into the wrong columns in the output file. So, Im wondering if delimiters are broken in my CSV-to-TSV pre-processing. Can anyone spot any obvious errors or omissions in the following... > -- convert from CSV to TSV > > replace tab with space in tFileData -- clear any tabs in the content before setting as a delimiter > > replace quote & comma & quote with tab in tFileData -- change delimiter for quoted values > > replace comma with tab in tFileData -- change delimiter for unquoted values > > replace quote with "" in tFileData -- clear quotes in first & last items > > set the itemDelimiter to tab > > Best, > Keith > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From andre at andregarzia.com Tue Apr 5 13:17:30 2022 From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 18:17:30 +0100 Subject: launch tFile with tApp In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: What about using AppleScript to force it to open with a given app? Sent from my iPhone > On 5 Apr 2022, at 10:08, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi all, > >> Am 04.04.2022 um 18:10 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode : >> >> Hi friends, >> >> macOS 12.3, LC 9.6.7 >> >> I have e.g. a MP3 file and want to open it with "Quicktime Player.app": >> ... >> ## tPrompt contains a localized string, of course >> answer file tPrompt with specialfolderpath("apps") with type "|app|" >> put it into tApp >> ## I select QTPLayer.app >> if the result = "cancel" then >> exit to top >> end if >> ## tDatei holds the complete path to the MP3 >> ## tApp the path to QTPlayer.app >> launch tDatei with tApp >> put the result >> ... >> >> It will open the MP3 with QTPlayer as desired BUT >> it also opens the file with "iTunes/Music" additionally!? >> And I don't want that! :-D >> >> The result is EMPTY. > > must have been a temporary "glitch" since it did not happen today. > > And a HTML file was opened with "TextEdit.app" as expected and did > not start "Safari". > > But will keep an eye on this! 8-) > > > Best > > Klaus > > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > https://www.major-k.de/bass > klaus at major-k.de > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From keith.clarke at me.com Tue Apr 5 13:28:23 2022 From: keith.clarke at me.com (Keith Clarke) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 18:28:23 +0100 Subject: CSV to TSV (was Re: Tools & techniques for one-off consolidation of multiple 'similar' CSV files?) In-Reply-To: References: <83272CB1-BDD0-4DAB-9F20-6BECAF92A18B@me.com> <4BF2491F-136C-44E3-A748-E03C29638F67@me.com> Message-ID: Ah, thanks Alex - I’ll dig into that. I did search around for CSV to TSV in several places before posting but not CSV to Tab and not github! Best, Keith > On 5 Apr 2022, at 18:17, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Keith, > > that code will fail for any commas which occur within quoted entries - they will be wrongly converted to TABs > > I'd suggest getting cvsToTab (a community effort by Richard Gaskin, me and a whole host of others over the years) as a good starting place, and perhaps finishing place. It will handle most CSV oddities (not all of them - that is provably impossible :-). > > This does an efficient walk through the data, remembering whether it is inside or outside quoted entries, and hence handles commas accordingly. > > https://github.com/macMikey/csvToText/blob/master/csvToTab.livecodescript > > Alex. > > On 05/04/2022 17:02, Keith Clarke via use-livecode wrote: >> Hi folks, >> Thanks all for the responses and ideas on consolidating multiple CSV files into - much appreciated. >> >> Ben - Thank you for sharing your working recipe. This lifted my spirits as it showed I was on the right path (very nearly!) and you moved me on a big step from where I was stuck. >> >> My script was successfully iterating through folders and files, with filtering to get a file list of just CSVs with their paths for onward processing. I’d also identified the need to maintain registers of (growing) column names, together with a master row template and a mapping of the current file’s column headers in row-1 to the master to put align output columns. I got stuck when I set up nested repeat loops for files, then lines, then items and was trying to deal with row 1 column headers and data rows at the same time, which got rather confusing. Separating the column name processing from parsing row data made life a lot simpler and I’ve now got LC parsing the ~200 CSV files into a ~60,000 row TSV file that opens in Excel. >> >> However… I’m getting cells dropped into the wrong columns in the output file. So, I’m wondering if delimiters are broken in my CSV-to-TSV pre-processing. Can anyone spot any obvious errors or omissions in the following... >> -- convert from CSV to TSV >> >> replace tab with space in tFileData -- clear any tabs in the content before setting as a delimiter >> >> replace quote & comma & quote with tab in tFileData -- change delimiter for quoted values >> >> replace comma with tab in tFileData -- change delimiter for unquoted values >> >> replace quote with "" in tFileData -- clear quotes in first & last items >> >> set the itemDelimiter to tab >> >> Best, >> Keith >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From klaus at major-k.de Tue Apr 5 13:33:08 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 19:33:08 +0200 Subject: launch tFile with tApp In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <89F109FF-BA7D-4CBB-B02C-F784E2D11051@major-k.de> Hi Andre, > Am 05.04.2022 um 19:17 schrieb Andre Garzia via use-livecode : > > What about using AppleScript to force it to open with a given app? please read my last posting, you even quoted it here. But I will consider this, if it will fail again or better if it will fail "reliably". :-D > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 5 Apr 2022, at 10:08, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >>> Am 04.04.2022 um 18:10 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode : >>> >>> Hi friends, >>> >>> macOS 12.3, LC 9.6.7 >>> >>> I have e.g. a MP3 file and want to open it with "Quicktime Player.app": >>> ... >>> ## tPrompt contains a localized string, of course >>> answer file tPrompt with specialfolderpath("apps") with type "|app|" >>> put it into tApp >>> ## I select QTPLayer.app >>> if the result = "cancel" then >>> exit to top >>> end if >>> ## tDatei holds the complete path to the MP3 >>> ## tApp the path to QTPlayer.app >>> launch tDatei with tApp >>> put the result >>> ... >>> >>> It will open the MP3 with QTPlayer as desired BUT >>> it also opens the file with "iTunes/Music" additionally!? >>> And I don't want that! :-D >>> >>> The result is EMPTY. >> >> must have been a temporary "glitch" since it did not happen today. >> >> And a HTML file was opened with "TextEdit.app" as expected and did >> not start "Safari". >> >> But will keep an eye on this! 8-) Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From craig at starfirelighting.com Tue Apr 5 13:36:11 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 13:36:11 -0400 Subject: Flash Talks - 3 slots remaining In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <33668918-E35F-4F67-80C1-9C2FF56678B8@starfirelighting.com> Heather. I probably am one of the oddest LC users. Entirely for either my own use or for my company. Only once did I sell a system commercially. But I do use LC to control three very different machines in our shop. Would it be of any interest to anyone to see one of these in operation? Regards, Craig Newman (dunbarx) > On Apr 5, 2022, at 12:54 PM, Heather Laine via use-livecode wrote: > > Dear Good Folks of the Use-list, > > I'm in the final throes of scheduling our upcoming online conference on 25-27th April. Its looking great! Multiple fabulous talks have come in, there is loads of rich content, we have panels, keynotes and workshops galore! We're just missing 3 flashtalks to round out the Flash Talks section on Day 3. I know at least 3 of you good people can speak for a mere 7 minutes on your topic of choice. Roll up roll up... and send me a talk submission :) Pretty please? > > https://livecode.com/global/apply-to-speak/ > > It's going to be a great event. > > Warmest Regards to all, > > Heather > > P.S. Where is the conference schedule to be seen, I hear you ask? Right here: > > https://livecode.com/global/schedule/ > > Heather Laine > Customer Services Manager and Conference Organizer Extraordinaire > LiveCode Ltd > www.livecode.com > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From andre at andregarzia.com Tue Apr 5 13:41:08 2022 From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 18:41:08 +0100 Subject: Flash Talks - 3 slots remaining In-Reply-To: <33668918-E35F-4F67-80C1-9C2FF56678B8@starfirelighting.com> References: <33668918-E35F-4F67-80C1-9C2FF56678B8@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: I think this is very interesting. I’d love to watch a flash talk on it. Sent from my iPhone > On 5 Apr 2022, at 18:38, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: > > Heather. > > I probably am one of the oddest LC users. Entirely for either my own use or for my company. Only once did I sell a system commercially. > > But I do use LC to control three very different machines in our shop. Would it be of any interest to anyone to see one of these in operation? > > Regards, > > Craig Newman (dunbarx) > > > >> On Apr 5, 2022, at 12:54 PM, Heather Laine via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Dear Good Folks of the Use-list, >> >> I'm in the final throes of scheduling our upcoming online conference on 25-27th April. Its looking great! Multiple fabulous talks have come in, there is loads of rich content, we have panels, keynotes and workshops galore! We're just missing 3 flashtalks to round out the Flash Talks section on Day 3. I know at least 3 of you good people can speak for a mere 7 minutes on your topic of choice. Roll up roll up... and send me a talk submission :) Pretty please? >> >> https://livecode.com/global/apply-to-speak/ >> >> It's going to be a great event. >> >> Warmest Regards to all, >> >> Heather >> >> P.S. Where is the conference schedule to be seen, I hear you ask? Right here: >> >> https://livecode.com/global/schedule/ >> >> Heather Laine >> Customer Services Manager and Conference Organizer Extraordinaire >> LiveCode Ltd >> www.livecode.com >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From alex at tweedly.net Tue Apr 5 13:48:45 2022 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 18:48:45 +0100 Subject: Flash Talks - 3 slots remaining In-Reply-To: <33668918-E35F-4F67-80C1-9C2FF56678B8@starfirelighting.com> References: <33668918-E35F-4F67-80C1-9C2FF56678B8@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: <69ce9acd-739b-7d4d-1811-087b059f1c5d@tweedly.net> Sounds fascinating - I'd love to hear about that. Alex. On 05/04/2022 18:36, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: > Heather. > > I probably am one of the oddest LC users. Entirely for either my own use or for my company. Only once did I sell a system commercially. > > But I do use LC to control three very different machines in our shop. Would it be of any interest to anyone to see one of these in operation? > > Regards, > > Craig Newman (dunbarx) > > > >> On Apr 5, 2022, at 12:54 PM, Heather Laine via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Dear Good Folks of the Use-list, >> >> I'm in the final throes of scheduling our upcoming online conference on 25-27th April. Its looking great! Multiple fabulous talks have come in, there is loads of rich content, we have panels, keynotes and workshops galore! We're just missing 3 flashtalks to round out the Flash Talks section on Day 3. I know at least 3 of you good people can speak for a mere 7 minutes on your topic of choice. Roll up roll up... and send me a talk submission :) Pretty please? >> >> https://livecode.com/global/apply-to-speak/ >> >> It's going to be a great event. >> >> Warmest Regards to all, >> >> Heather >> >> P.S. Where is the conference schedule to be seen, I hear you ask? Right here: >> >> https://livecode.com/global/schedule/ >> >> Heather Laine >> Customer Services Manager and Conference Organizer Extraordinaire >> LiveCode Ltd >> www.livecode.com >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From craig at starfirelighting.com Tue Apr 5 13:52:05 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 13:52:05 -0400 Subject: Confirm sort container order... In-Reply-To: References: <4a411e1c-2f2d-662d-92f8-786c002e931a@researchware.com> <9B2F81C6-CB3D-4D2C-A62F-A402E52CBF48@starfirelighting.com> <1ef8a4a4-662e-d49a-0cd4-cbdc62dee5f6@researchware.com> <6696E2A0-72AA-45DF-A96A-623B0CE5195F@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: <4275F9C0-2BAF-43FC-A96E-EE3867ECEE86@starfirelighting.com> Paul. I see you have come to the dark side. Welcome. “Sort", and its newly reborn compound variant, works fine as "sort it ascending numeric by word 1 of each && word 2 of each && word 3 of each” Since “lines” are the default, all one needs, and I mentioned this on the forum, is to determine the line with the greatest number of words, and build the string accordingly. This takes another couple of lines of code, but no more than having that very same number laid out in a series of single line sorts, still having to be determined by the maximum number of words or items. whatever. Craig > On Apr 5, 2022, at 12:08 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > > On 4/5/2022 10:58 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: >> The discussion may seem academic to some, and perhaps pointless to others. But I like this sort of nonsense, and actually believe it is rather more than just that. In fact, it speaks to the internal working of the “sort” command itself, which seems counterintuitive at least, and a mystery at best. >> >> > > I certainly agree a nice enhancement to sort would be something like > > sort lines of by item 3 of each then [by] item 2 of each then [by] item 1 of each > > to replicate exactly (below) but in a single, easier to read, line > > sort lines of by item 3 of each > sort lines of by item 2 of each > sort lines of by item 1 of each > > a reduction in code and a more intuitive way of stating a multi-level sort with the addition of a "then", "then by", or some sort of delimiter keyword > > Still that assumes you want to do an ascending text sort for all 3 levels, since ascending text is the default and the syntax is > > sort lines ascending text by item 3 of each > > If you want different sorts for each key > > sort lines of ascending text by item 3 of each > sort lines of descending numeric by item 2 of each > sort lines of ascending international by item 1 of each > > might still be easier that any new syntax that reads something like: > > sort lines of by item 3 of each ascending text then by item 2 of each descending numeric then by item 1 of each ascending international > > Although the single line is slightly shorter code and still relatively easy to read. Still, I have NO idea how difficult it would be to add the syntax to the LC engine. If not too difficult to implement, it could be a handy enhancement to LC's sort. > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From craig at starfirelighting.com Tue Apr 5 13:54:01 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 13:54:01 -0400 Subject: Flash Talks - 3 slots remaining In-Reply-To: References: <33668918-E35F-4F67-80C1-9C2FF56678B8@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: <7688300A-DD6C-4D1C-B3FE-7082608DC93C@starfirelighting.com> How is that done? From my phone with a cameraman? The talk would only make sense with me in front of the running machine itself, making noise. Craig > On Apr 5, 2022, at 1:41 PM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode wrote: > > I think this is very interesting. I’d love to watch a flash talk on it. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 5 Apr 2022, at 18:38, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Heather. >> >> I probably am one of the oddest LC users. Entirely for either my own use or for my company. Only once did I sell a system commercially. >> >> But I do use LC to control three very different machines in our shop. Would it be of any interest to anyone to see one of these in operation? >> >> Regards, >> >> Craig Newman (dunbarx) >> >> >> >>> On Apr 5, 2022, at 12:54 PM, Heather Laine via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> Dear Good Folks of the Use-list, >>> >>> I'm in the final throes of scheduling our upcoming online conference on 25-27th April. Its looking great! Multiple fabulous talks have come in, there is loads of rich content, we have panels, keynotes and workshops galore! We're just missing 3 flashtalks to round out the Flash Talks section on Day 3. I know at least 3 of you good people can speak for a mere 7 minutes on your topic of choice. Roll up roll up... and send me a talk submission :) Pretty please? >>> >>> https://livecode.com/global/apply-to-speak/ >>> >>> It's going to be a great event. >>> >>> Warmest Regards to all, >>> >>> Heather >>> >>> P.S. Where is the conference schedule to be seen, I hear you ask? Right here: >>> >>> https://livecode.com/global/schedule/ >>> >>> Heather Laine >>> Customer Services Manager and Conference Organizer Extraordinaire >>> LiveCode Ltd >>> www.livecode.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From alex at tweedly.net Tue Apr 5 15:07:34 2022 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 20:07:34 +0100 Subject: Flash Talks - 3 slots remaining In-Reply-To: <7688300A-DD6C-4D1C-B3FE-7082608DC93C@starfirelighting.com> References: <33668918-E35F-4F67-80C1-9C2FF56678B8@starfirelighting.com> <7688300A-DD6C-4D1C-B3FE-7082608DC93C@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: Do you need to be in front of the running machine ? Could you maybe video the machine going through its sequence - then record your voice-over later (either muting or turning down the machine audio, whichever is better) ? (Or, to put it another way, I have no real idea :-) but I'm sure Heather can help you. Alex. On 05/04/2022 18:54, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: > How is that done? From my phone with a cameraman? The talk would only make sense with me in front of the running machine itself, making noise. > > Craig > >> On Apr 5, 2022, at 1:41 PM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode wrote: >> >> I think this is very interesting. Id love to watch a flash talk on it. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On 5 Apr 2022, at 18:38, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> Heather. >>> >>> I probably am one of the oddest LC users. Entirely for either my own use or for my company. Only once did I sell a system commercially. >>> >>> But I do use LC to control three very different machines in our shop. Would it be of any interest to anyone to see one of these in operation? >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Craig Newman (dunbarx) >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Apr 5, 2022, at 12:54 PM, Heather Laine via use-livecode wrote: >>>> >>>> Dear Good Folks of the Use-list, >>>> >>>> I'm in the final throes of scheduling our upcoming online conference on 25-27th April. Its looking great! Multiple fabulous talks have come in, there is loads of rich content, we have panels, keynotes and workshops galore! We're just missing 3 flashtalks to round out the Flash Talks section on Day 3. I know at least 3 of you good people can speak for a mere 7 minutes on your topic of choice. Roll up roll up... and send me a talk submission :) Pretty please? >>>> >>>> https://livecode.com/global/apply-to-speak/ >>>> >>>> It's going to be a great event. >>>> >>>> Warmest Regards to all, >>>> >>>> Heather >>>> >>>> P.S. Where is the conference schedule to be seen, I hear you ask? Right here: >>>> >>>> https://livecode.com/global/schedule/ >>>> >>>> Heather Laine >>>> Customer Services Manager and Conference Organizer Extraordinaire >>>> LiveCode Ltd >>>> www.livecode.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ahsoftware at sonic.net Tue Apr 5 16:36:30 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 13:36:30 -0700 Subject: Flash Talks - 3 slots remaining In-Reply-To: <33668918-E35F-4F67-80C1-9C2FF56678B8@starfirelighting.com> References: <33668918-E35F-4F67-80C1-9C2FF56678B8@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: On 4/5/22 10:36, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: > > But I do use LC to control three very different machines in our shop. Would it be of any interest to anyone to see one of these in operation? Add me to the list of interested folks. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From tom at makeshyft.com Tue Apr 5 17:05:51 2022 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 17:05:51 -0400 Subject: Flash Talks - 3 slots remaining In-Reply-To: References: <33668918-E35F-4F67-80C1-9C2FF56678B8@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: Cool I'd watch your talk Craig. On Tue, Apr 5, 2022 at 4:37 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 4/5/22 10:36, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: > > > > > But I do use LC to control three very different machines in our shop. > Would it be of any interest to anyone to see one of these in operation? > > Add me to the list of interested folks. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From craig at starfirelighting.com Tue Apr 5 17:25:05 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 17:25:05 -0400 Subject: Flash Talks - 3 slots remaining In-Reply-To: References: <33668918-E35F-4F67-80C1-9C2FF56678B8@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: <0FAF3A38-0400-402A-9E63-9CD93EDF4DFC@starfirelighting.com> I suppose I could set up a Zoom session, and get some sucker, I mean, helper to video me. But much of the underlying power behind each of my machines is based on a small I/O hardware gadget that has no particular relevance to LC per se, apart from a software framework that supports it. The front end is a LC stack, running in the IDE, a control panel that reads and writes to the gadget. The gadget reads the state of things like switches and controls things like motors. Perhaps this might suggest to some that a hardware project could be assembled using Raspberry Pi or Arduino or even a PIC, since my particular hardware gadget is no longer supported. Anyway, for a minute or two it probably will look pretty cool, and the machine I have in mind is nothing if not noisy. Craig > On Apr 5, 2022, at 5:05 PM, Tom Glod via use-livecode wrote: > > Cool I'd watch your talk Craig. > > On Tue, Apr 5, 2022 at 4:37 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> On 4/5/22 10:36, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: >> >>> >>> But I do use LC to control three very different machines in our shop. >> Would it be of any interest to anyone to see one of these in operation? >> >> Add me to the list of interested folks. >> >> -- >> Mark Wieder >> ahsoftware at gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Tue Apr 5 17:28:50 2022 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 17:28:50 -0400 Subject: Flash Talks - 3 slots remaining In-Reply-To: <33668918-E35F-4F67-80C1-9C2FF56678B8@starfirelighting.com> References: <33668918-E35F-4F67-80C1-9C2FF56678B8@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: <005e01d84934$27b0e0e0$7712a2a0$@net> Go for it. Get a headset and use a tablet. This is cool. Not as cool as a "pancake printer" but cool none the less. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Craig Newman via use-livecode Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2022 1:36 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Craig Newman Subject: Re: Flash Talks - 3 slots remaining Heather. I probably am one of the oddest LC users. Entirely for either my own use or for my company. Only once did I sell a system commercially. But I do use LC to control three very different machines in our shop. Would it be of any interest to anyone to see one of these in operation? Regards, Craig Newman (dunbarx) > On Apr 5, 2022, at 12:54 PM, Heather Laine via use-livecode wrote: > > Dear Good Folks of the Use-list, > > I'm in the final throes of scheduling our upcoming online conference on 25-27th April. Its looking great! Multiple fabulous talks have come in, there is loads of rich content, we have panels, keynotes and workshops galore! We're just missing 3 flashtalks to round out the Flash Talks section on Day 3. I know at least 3 of you good people can speak for a mere 7 minutes on your topic of choice. Roll up roll up... and send me a talk submission :) Pretty please? > > https://livecode.com/global/apply-to-speak/ > > > It's going to be a great event. > > Warmest Regards to all, > > Heather > > P.S. Where is the conference schedule to be seen, I hear you ask? Right here: > > https://livecode.com/global/schedule/ > > Heather Laine > Customer Services Manager and Conference Organizer Extraordinaire > LiveCode Ltd www.livecode.com > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Apr 5 17:27:10 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 21:27:10 +0000 Subject: Flash Talks - 3 slots remaining In-Reply-To: References: <33668918-E35F-4F67-80C1-9C2FF56678B8@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: I'm in. Bob S > On Apr 5, 2022, at 13:36 , Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > > On 4/5/22 10:36, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: > >> But I do use LC to control three very different machines in our shop. Would it be of any interest to anyone to see one of these in operation? > > Add me to the list of interested folks. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ahsoftware at sonic.net Tue Apr 5 18:23:13 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 15:23:13 -0700 Subject: Flash Talks - 3 slots remaining In-Reply-To: <0FAF3A38-0400-402A-9E63-9CD93EDF4DFC@starfirelighting.com> References: <33668918-E35F-4F67-80C1-9C2FF56678B8@starfirelighting.com> <0FAF3A38-0400-402A-9E63-9CD93EDF4DFC@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: <1344d337-0a55-be93-fa6e-be9a14b172fb@sonic.net> On 4/5/22 14:25, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: > But much of the underlying power behind each of my machines is based on a small I/O hardware gadget that has no particular relevance to LC per se, apart from a software framework that supports it. > > The front end is a LC stack, running in the IDE, a control panel that reads and writes to the gadget. The gadget reads the state of things like switches and controls things like motors. Perhaps this might suggest to some that a hardware project could be assembled using Raspberry Pi or Arduino or even a PIC, since my particular hardware gadget is no longer supported. All right - now I'm hooked. Looking forward to you talking about the LC interface to the real world. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ahsoftware at sonic.net Tue Apr 5 18:25:22 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 15:25:22 -0700 Subject: Flash Talks - 3 slots remaining In-Reply-To: <005e01d84934$27b0e0e0$7712a2a0$@net> References: <33668918-E35F-4F67-80C1-9C2FF56678B8@starfirelighting.com> <005e01d84934$27b0e0e0$7712a2a0$@net> Message-ID: <1010cf75-e8c1-4a15-e285-be3c896e545f@sonic.net> On 4/5/22 14:28, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote: > Go for it. Get a headset and use a tablet. This is cool. Not as cool as a > "pancake printer" but cool none the less. Oooo... they had one of those pancake printers set up at the Maker Faire a few years ago. Takes a bit of time, but... fancy pancakes. *Almost* hated to eat mine. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Tue Apr 5 20:28:10 2022 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 20:28:10 -0400 Subject: Flash Talks - 3 slots remaining In-Reply-To: <1344d337-0a55-be93-fa6e-be9a14b172fb@sonic.net> References: <33668918-E35F-4F67-80C1-9C2FF56678B8@starfirelighting.com> <0FAF3A38-0400-402A-9E63-9CD93EDF4DFC@starfirelighting.com> <1344d337-0a55-be93-fa6e-be9a14b172fb@sonic.net> Message-ID: <006401d8494d$34c031f0$9e4095d0$@net> Me too. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net All right - now I'm hooked. Looking forward to you talking about the LC interface to the real world. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Wed Apr 6 08:03:53 2022 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 22:03:53 +1000 Subject: Widget properties Message-ID: <30167ED7-D04B-4164-A99D-1AC5EB2A68E3@optusnet.com.au> Is it not a bug that the properties of widget “foo” returns empty (for all values of foo)? No rect, no visible, no disabled etc, even though these clearly are settable and functional properties of the widget. You can export widget “foo” to array “bar” but that gives the intrinsic properties of the widget not the usual object properties. Oh and don’t forget the reserved word “array” in the above line, that causes an IDE crash (bug 23655 confirmed) Neville From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Apr 6 08:36:27 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 14:36:27 +0200 Subject: Widget properties In-Reply-To: <30167ED7-D04B-4164-A99D-1AC5EB2A68E3@optusnet.com.au> References: <30167ED7-D04B-4164-A99D-1AC5EB2A68E3@optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <827117BD-FB31-4DBD-8963-B7F7E09A6427@m-r-d.de> That is not available according to this post from Ali Lloyd https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?t=27183#p141945 > Am 06.04.2022 um 14:03 schrieb Neville Smythe via use-livecode : > > Is it not a bug that > > the properties of widget “foo” > > returns empty (for all values of foo)? > > No rect, no visible, no disabled etc, even though these clearly are settable and functional properties of the widget. > > You can > > export widget “foo” to array “bar” > > but that gives the intrinsic properties of the widget not the usual object properties. Oh and don’t forget the reserved word “array” in the above line, that causes an IDE crash (bug 23655 confirmed) > > Neville > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Apr 6 08:37:26 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 14:37:26 +0200 Subject: Widget properties In-Reply-To: <827117BD-FB31-4DBD-8963-B7F7E09A6427@m-r-d.de> References: <30167ED7-D04B-4164-A99D-1AC5EB2A68E3@optusnet.com.au> <827117BD-FB31-4DBD-8963-B7F7E09A6427@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: Forgot to mention that his post also has a solution to fetch the list of all available properties for a widget. > Am 06.04.2022 um 14:36 schrieb matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de: > > That is not available according to this post from Ali Lloyd > > https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?t=27183#p141945 > > >> Am 06.04.2022 um 14:03 schrieb Neville Smythe via use-livecode >: >> >> Is it not a bug that >> >> the properties of widget “foo” >> >> returns empty (for all values of foo)? >> >> No rect, no visible, no disabled etc, even though these clearly are settable and functional properties of the widget. >> >> You can >> >> export widget “foo” to array “bar” >> >> but that gives the intrinsic properties of the widget not the usual object properties. Oh and don’t forget the reserved word “array” in the above line, that causes an IDE crash (bug 23655 > confirmed) >> >> Neville >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From craig at starfirelighting.com Wed Apr 6 09:12:03 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 09:12:03 -0400 Subject: Flash Talks - 3 slots remaining In-Reply-To: <006401d8494d$34c031f0$9e4095d0$@net> References: <33668918-E35F-4F67-80C1-9C2FF56678B8@starfirelighting.com> <0FAF3A38-0400-402A-9E63-9CD93EDF4DFC@starfirelighting.com> <1344d337-0a55-be93-fa6e-be9a14b172fb@sonic.net> <006401d8494d$34c031f0$9e4095d0$@net> Message-ID: So is this a video that I make beforehand and upload somewhere, or is it usually meant to be a live show? Craig > On Apr 5, 2022, at 8:28 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote: > > Me too. > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > > All right - now I'm hooked. > Looking forward to you talking about the LC interface to the real world. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From alex at tweedly.net Wed Apr 6 09:22:06 2022 From: alex at tweedly.net (Tweedly) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 14:22:06 +0100 Subject: Widget properties In-Reply-To: <827117BD-FB31-4DBD-8963-B7F7E09A6427@m-r-d.de> References: <827117BD-FB31-4DBD-8963-B7F7E09A6427@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <32B7BC63-B306-4B17-B104-3A0ACCAF5974@tweedly.net> That post from Ali says they are not available; it doesn’t say they should be not available. I’d say they should be - Ali’s workaround is good for the IDE only. So no reason not to submit as a bug/request, and get a proper determination from LCLtd. Alex Sent from my iPad > On 6 Apr 2022, at 13:37, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > > That is not available according to this post from Ali Lloyd > > https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?t=27183#p141945 > > >> Am 06.04.2022 um 14:03 schrieb Neville Smythe via use-livecode : >> >> Is it not a bug that >> >> the properties of widget “foo” >> >> returns empty (for all values of foo)? >> >> No rect, no visible, no disabled etc, even though these clearly are settable and functional properties of the widget. >> >> You can >> >> export widget “foo” to array “bar” >> >> but that gives the intrinsic properties of the widget not the usual object properties. Oh and don’t forget the reserved word “array” in the above line, that causes an IDE crash (bug 23655 confirmed) >> >> Neville >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From klaus at major-k.de Wed Apr 6 09:23:16 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 15:23:16 +0200 Subject: drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) always BLACK Message-ID: <1C2D1B7B-6ECE-44AE-8443-01AF60542A58@major-k.de> Hi all, drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) is really great, but the resulting images are always black. I can of course add a "color overlay" but when I use them as "imagesource" it uses the original black images. Any hints on how to add color to them when using them as "imagesource" in a field without screenshotting them or exporting them, add color in an image editing app and reimport them as images? Thanks for any hint! Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Apr 6 09:30:16 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 15:30:16 +0200 Subject: Widget properties In-Reply-To: <32B7BC63-B306-4B17-B104-3A0ACCAF5974@tweedly.net> References: <827117BD-FB31-4DBD-8963-B7F7E09A6427@m-r-d.de> <32B7BC63-B306-4B17-B104-3A0ACCAF5974@tweedly.net> Message-ID: Maybe. But the last 6 years no one filed a bug report, even Ali did not. So i doubt, that it will be fixed in the near future even with a bug report. Anyway, without a bug report there is definitely no chance that it will be ever fixed. > Am 06.04.2022 um 15:22 schrieb Tweedly via use-livecode : > > That post from Ali says they are not available; it doesn’t say they should be not available. > > I’d say they should be - Ali’s workaround is good for the IDE only. > > So no reason not to submit as a bug/request, and get a proper determination from LCLtd. > > Alex > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 6 Apr 2022, at 13:37, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: >> >> That is not available according to this post from Ali Lloyd >> >> https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?t=27183#p141945 >> >> >>> Am 06.04.2022 um 14:03 schrieb Neville Smythe via use-livecode : >>> >>> Is it not a bug that >>> >>> the properties of widget “foo” >>> >>> returns empty (for all values of foo)? >>> >>> No rect, no visible, no disabled etc, even though these clearly are settable and functional properties of the widget. >>> >>> You can >>> >>> export widget “foo” to array “bar” >>> >>> but that gives the intrinsic properties of the widget not the usual object properties. Oh and don’t forget the reserved word “array” in the above line, that causes an IDE crash (bug 23655 confirmed) >>> >>> Neville >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From tore.nilsen at me.com Wed Apr 6 09:30:36 2022 From: tore.nilsen at me.com (Tore Nilsen) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 15:30:36 +0200 Subject: Flash Talks - 3 slots remaining In-Reply-To: References: <33668918-E35F-4F67-80C1-9C2FF56678B8@starfirelighting.com> <0FAF3A38-0400-402A-9E63-9CD93EDF4DFC@starfirelighting.com> <1344d337-0a55-be93-fa6e-be9a14b172fb@sonic.net> <006401d8494d$34c031f0$9e4095d0$@net> Message-ID: Very often you will make the presentation beforehand and make yourself available to answer any questions at the time of presentation. I guess Heather will guide you through the process. Best regards Tore Nilsen > 6. apr. 2022 kl. 15:12 skrev Craig Newman via use-livecode : > > So is this a video that I make beforehand and upload somewhere, or is it usually meant to be a live show? > > Craig From klaus at major-k.de Wed Apr 6 09:35:08 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 15:35:08 +0200 Subject: drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) always BLACK In-Reply-To: <1C2D1B7B-6ECE-44AE-8443-01AF60542A58@major-k.de> References: <1C2D1B7B-6ECE-44AE-8443-01AF60542A58@major-k.de> Message-ID: <6A41765B-B800-4FA6-8F64-A9A969D0B7B1@major-k.de> Just made a test and it looks like the resulting images from drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) cannot even be screenshot-ted!? Results in a greyish rectangle? WTF? Tried as PNG and JPEG. see screenshot here: > Am 06.04.2022 um 15:23 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode : > > Hi all, > > drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) is really great, > but the resulting images are always black. > > I can of course add a "color overlay" but when I use them as > "imagesource" it uses the original black images. > > Any hints on how to add color to them when using them > as "imagesource" in a field without screenshotting them or > exporting them, add color in an image editing app and > reimport them as images? > > Thanks for any hint! -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From klaus at major-k.de Wed Apr 6 09:42:33 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 15:42:33 +0200 Subject: drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) always BLACK In-Reply-To: <6A41765B-B800-4FA6-8F64-A9A969D0B7B1@major-k.de> References: <1C2D1B7B-6ECE-44AE-8443-01AF60542A58@major-k.de> <6A41765B-B800-4FA6-8F64-A9A969D0B7B1@major-k.de> Message-ID: <0586315F-E6FA-4B78-AEA4-ED0A391AA2B7@major-k.de> Bug reported it: > Am 06.04.2022 um 15:35 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode : > > Just made a test and it looks like the resulting images from > drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) cannot even be screenshot-ted!? > Results in a greyish rectangle? WTF? > > Tried as PNG and JPEG. > > see screenshot here: > -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From sean at pidigital.co.uk Wed Apr 6 10:04:31 2022 From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Sean Cole) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 15:04:31 +0100 Subject: Widget properties In-Reply-To: References: <827117BD-FB31-4DBD-8963-B7F7E09A6427@m-r-d.de> <32B7BC63-B306-4B17-B104-3A0ACCAF5974@tweedly.net> Message-ID: I would suggest filing a report and get the ball rolling. If you reference in the post by Ali and your other workarounds it will at least be useful to some and at best provide information that leads to a fix. On Wed, 6 Apr 2022 at 14:30, matthias rebbe via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Maybe. > > But the last 6 years no one filed a bug report, even Ali did not. So i > doubt, that it will be fixed in the near future even with a bug report. > Anyway, without a bug report there is definitely no chance that it will be > ever fixed. > > > > Am 06.04.2022 um 15:22 schrieb Tweedly via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: > > > > That post from Ali says they are not available; it doesn’t say they > should be not available. > > > > I’d say they should be - Ali’s workaround is good for the IDE only. > > > > So no reason not to submit as a bug/request, and get a proper > determination from LCLtd. > > > > Alex > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > >> On 6 Apr 2022, at 13:37, matthias rebbe via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> > >> That is not available according to this post from Ali Lloyd > >> > >> https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?t=27183#p141945 < > https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?t=27183#p141945> > >> > >> > >>> Am 06.04.2022 um 14:03 schrieb Neville Smythe via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: > >>> > >>> Is it not a bug that > >>> > >>> the properties of widget “foo” > >>> > >>> returns empty (for all values of foo)? > >>> > >>> No rect, no visible, no disabled etc, even though these clearly are > settable and functional properties of the widget. > >>> > >>> You can > >>> > >>> export widget “foo” to array “bar” > >>> > >>> but that gives the intrinsic properties of the widget not the usual > object properties. Oh and don’t forget the reserved word “array” in the > above line, that causes an IDE crash (bug 23655 < > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23655> confirmed) > >>> > >>> Neville > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> use-livecode mailing list > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Apr 6 10:55:44 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 14:55:44 +0000 Subject: drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) always BLACK In-Reply-To: <1C2D1B7B-6ECE-44AE-8443-01AF60542A58@major-k.de> References: <1C2D1B7B-6ECE-44AE-8443-01AF60542A58@major-k.de> Message-ID: <63B26CED-E6AB-4520-B532-06E74EB5F6B0@iotecdigital.com> Sounds a little like the old bug where a PNG would draw as black if it had an Alpha channel. Bob S > On Apr 6, 2022, at 06:23 , Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi all, > > drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) is really great, > but the resulting images are always black. > > I can of course add a "color overlay" but when I use them as > "imagesource" it uses the original black images. > > Any hints on how to add color to them when using them > as "imagesource" in a field without screenshotting them or > exporting them, add color in an image editing app and > reimport them as images? > > Thanks for any hint! > > > Best > > Klaus > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > https://www.major-k.de/bass > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Apr 6 11:59:52 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2022 10:59:52 -0500 Subject: drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) always BLACK In-Reply-To: <6A41765B-B800-4FA6-8F64-A9A969D0B7B1@major-k.de> References: <1C2D1B7B-6ECE-44AE-8443-01AF60542A58@major-k.de> <6A41765B-B800-4FA6-8F64-A9A969D0B7B1@major-k.de> Message-ID: <17fff9a88c0.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> The IDE supports importing SVG images from the Import As Control menu. Does that work any differently? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On April 6, 2022 8:36:29 AM Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > Just made a test and it looks like the resulting images from > drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) cannot even be screenshot-ted!? > Results in a greyish rectangle? WTF? > > Tried as PNG and JPEG. > > see screenshot here: > > >> Am 06.04.2022 um 15:23 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode >> : >> >> Hi all, >> >> drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) is really great, >> but the resulting images are always black. >> >> I can of course add a "color overlay" but when I use them as >> "imagesource" it uses the original black images. >> >> Any hints on how to add color to them when using them >> as "imagesource" in a field without screenshotting them or >> exporting them, add color in an image editing app and >> reimport them as images? >> >> Thanks for any hint! > > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > https://www.major-k.de/bass > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From klaus at major-k.de Wed Apr 6 12:10:23 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 18:10:23 +0200 Subject: drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) always BLACK In-Reply-To: <17fff9a88c0.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <1C2D1B7B-6ECE-44AE-8443-01AF60542A58@major-k.de> <6A41765B-B800-4FA6-8F64-A9A969D0B7B1@major-k.de> <17fff9a88c0.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <7778D0F7-FDB0-4512-BFE6-561AE3B3E455@major-k.de> Hi Jaques, > Am 06.04.2022 um 17:59 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode : > > The IDE supports importing SVG images from the Import As Control menu. Does that work any differently? not tested (yet). > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > On April 6, 2022 8:36:29 AM Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > >> Just made a test and it looks like the resulting images from >> drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) cannot even be screenshot-ted!? >> Results in a greyish rectangle? WTF? >> >> Tried as PNG and JPEG. >> >> see screenshot here: >> >> >>> Am 06.04.2022 um 15:23 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode : >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) is really great, >>> but the resulting images are always black. >>> >>> I can of course add a "color overlay" but when I use them as >>> "imagesource" it uses the original black images. >>> >>> Any hints on how to add color to them when using them >>> as "imagesource" in a field without screenshotting them or >>> exporting them, add color in an image editing app and >>> reimport them as images? >>> >>> Thanks for any hint! Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From klaus at major-k.de Wed Apr 6 12:13:26 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 18:13:26 +0200 Subject: drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) always BLACK In-Reply-To: <7778D0F7-FDB0-4512-BFE6-561AE3B3E455@major-k.de> References: <1C2D1B7B-6ECE-44AE-8443-01AF60542A58@major-k.de> <6A41765B-B800-4FA6-8F64-A9A969D0B7B1@major-k.de> <17fff9a88c0.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <7778D0F7-FDB0-4512-BFE6-561AE3B3E455@major-k.de> Message-ID: > Am 06.04.2022 um 18:10 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode : > > Hi Jaques, > >> Am 06.04.2022 um 17:59 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode : >> >> The IDE supports importing SVG images from the Import As Control menu. Does that work any differently? > > not tested (yet). just tested and THAT works!? > >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> On April 6, 2022 8:36:29 AM Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >> >>> Just made a test and it looks like the resulting images from >>> drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) cannot even be screenshot-ted!? >>> Results in a greyish rectangle? WTF? >>> >>> Tried as PNG and JPEG. >>> >>> see screenshot here: >>> >>> >>>> Am 06.04.2022 um 15:23 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode : >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) is really great, >>>> but the resulting images are always black. >>>> >>>> I can of course add a "color overlay" but when I use them as >>>> "imagesource" it uses the original black images. >>>> >>>> Any hints on how to add color to them when using them >>>> as "imagesource" in a field without screenshotting them or >>>> exporting them, add color in an image editing app and >>>> reimport them as images? >>>> >>>> Thanks for any hint! > > Best > > Klaus > > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > https://www.major-k.de/bass > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From klaus at major-k.de Wed Apr 6 13:16:40 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 19:16:40 +0200 Subject: drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) always BLACK In-Reply-To: References: <1C2D1B7B-6ECE-44AE-8443-01AF60542A58@major-k.de> <6A41765B-B800-4FA6-8F64-A9A969D0B7B1@major-k.de> <17fff9a88c0.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <7778D0F7-FDB0-4512-BFE6-561AE3B3E455@major-k.de> Message-ID: <32247ECF-1AD1-4CBC-9FE5-2F81DFC8C62F@major-k.de> Hi all, so sorry, looks like I completely f..... up here. Sorry for the confusion, not may day... See: Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From mark at livecode.com Wed Apr 6 13:28:00 2022 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2022 18:28:00 +0100 Subject: drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) always BLACK In-Reply-To: <32247ECF-1AD1-4CBC-9FE5-2F81DFC8C62F@major-k.de> References: <1C2D1B7B-6ECE-44AE-8443-01AF60542A58@major-k.de> <6A41765B-B800-4FA6-8F64-A9A969D0B7B1@major-k.de> <17fff9a88c0.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <7778D0F7-FDB0-4512-BFE6-561AE3B3E455@major-k.de> <32247ECF-1AD1-4CBC-9FE5-2F81DFC8C62F@major-k.de> Message-ID: On 2022-04-06 18:16, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > Hi all, > > so sorry, looks like I completely f..... up here. > Sorry for the confusion, not may day... > > See: > Hehe - no worries. So in answer to your original query about wanting to be able to color the icons - the drawing library supports the 'currentColor' attribute in SVG - and this is tied to the 'backgroundColor' property of the image object the drawing is set on. It would only take a small tweak to Brian's extension to make this work - adding `fill="currentColor"` to the path node it generates. Brian's extension works by fetching the path data from the IconSVG library, wrapping it in the necessary SVG XML, and then compiling it with drawingSvgCompile. Irksomely, there does not seem to be any support for marking colors in SVGs as 'currentColor' in any SVG editor we've come across (unless its deeply buried in it). So one strategy there is making sure the colors you want to be configurable in the SVG are set to a known unlikely random color (e.g. #ABCDEF), exporting as SVG XML from the editor and then just doing a global find/replace of (e.g.) #ABCDEF with currentColor. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Apr 6 14:48:23 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 13:48:23 -0500 Subject: drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) always BLACK In-Reply-To: References: <1C2D1B7B-6ECE-44AE-8443-01AF60542A58@major-k.de> <6A41765B-B800-4FA6-8F64-A9A969D0B7B1@major-k.de> <17fff9a88c0.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <7778D0F7-FDB0-4512-BFE6-561AE3B3E455@major-k.de> Message-ID: <105a0f49-0bc1-270c-3f8a-07edb1d6136b@hyperactivesw.com> On 4/6/22 11:13 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >>> Am 06.04.2022 um 17:59 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode: >>> >>> The IDE supports importing SVG images from the Import As Control menu. Does that work any differently? >> not tested (yet). > just tested and THAT works!? There must be more to it than just running drawingSvgCompileIcon, but I can't recall what it is. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From klaus at major-k.de Wed Apr 6 14:51:16 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 20:51:16 +0200 Subject: drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) always BLACK In-Reply-To: <105a0f49-0bc1-270c-3f8a-07edb1d6136b@hyperactivesw.com> References: <1C2D1B7B-6ECE-44AE-8443-01AF60542A58@major-k.de> <6A41765B-B800-4FA6-8F64-A9A969D0B7B1@major-k.de> <17fff9a88c0.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <7778D0F7-FDB0-4512-BFE6-561AE3B3E455@major-k.de> <105a0f49-0bc1-270c-3f8a-07edb1d6136b@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <3C7BF3C7-878D-4F3D-AB8B-CC782E8F7988@major-k.de> Hi Jaques, > Am 06.04.2022 um 20:48 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode : > > On 4/6/22 11:13 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >>>> Am 06.04.2022 um 17:59 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode: >>>> The IDE supports importing SVG images from the Import As Control menu. Does that work any differently? >>> not tested (yet). >> just tested and THAT works!? > There must be more to it than just running drawingSvgCompileIcon, but I can't recall what it is. it was only my fault, I was using wrong syntax! Everything works fine now. > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From brian at milby7.com Wed Apr 6 15:18:09 2022 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 15:18:09 -0400 Subject: drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) always BLACK In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <91CD3240-9439-4877-81AD-9F1B83E0F718@milby7.com> I guess I need to make an update to this library :) Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 6, 2022, at 1:28 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > > On 2022-04-06 18:16, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >> Hi all, >> so sorry, looks like I completely f..... up here. >> Sorry for the confusion, not may day... >> See: >> > > Hehe - no worries. > > So in answer to your original query about wanting to be able to color the icons - the drawing library supports the 'currentColor' attribute in SVG - and this is tied to the 'backgroundColor' property of the image object the drawing is set on. > > It would only take a small tweak to Brian's extension to make this work - adding `fill="currentColor"` to the path node it generates. > > Brian's extension works by fetching the path data from the IconSVG library, wrapping it in the necessary SVG XML, and then compiling it with drawingSvgCompile. > > Irksomely, there does not seem to be any support for marking colors in SVGs as 'currentColor' in any SVG editor we've come across (unless its deeply buried in it). So one strategy there is making sure the colors you want to be configurable in the SVG are set to a known unlikely random color (e.g. #ABCDEF), exporting as SVG XML from the editor and then just doing a global find/replace of (e.g.) #ABCDEF with currentColor. > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > > -- > Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Everyone can create apps > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From klaus at major-k.de Wed Apr 6 15:19:54 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 21:19:54 +0200 Subject: drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) always BLACK In-Reply-To: <91CD3240-9439-4877-81AD-9F1B83E0F718@milby7.com> References: <91CD3240-9439-4877-81AD-9F1B83E0F718@milby7.com> Message-ID: <8B45151C-1CBB-46D8-878D-141CFD47E99D@major-k.de> Hi Brian, > Am 06.04.2022 um 21:18 schrieb Brian Milby via use-livecode : > > I guess I need to make an update to this library :) yo, that would be cool! :-) > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Apr 6, 2022, at 1:28 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: >> >> On 2022-04-06 18:16, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> so sorry, looks like I completely f..... up here. >>> Sorry for the confusion, not may day... >>> See: >>> >> >> Hehe - no worries. >> >> So in answer to your original query about wanting to be able to color the icons - the drawing library supports the 'currentColor' attribute in SVG - and this is tied to the 'backgroundColor' property of the image object the drawing is set on. >> >> It would only take a small tweak to Brian's extension to make this work - adding `fill="currentColor"` to the path node it generates. >> >> Brian's extension works by fetching the path data from the IconSVG library, wrapping it in the necessary SVG XML, and then compiling it with drawingSvgCompile. >> >> Irksomely, there does not seem to be any support for marking colors in SVGs as 'currentColor' in any SVG editor we've come across (unless its deeply buried in it). So one strategy there is making sure the colors you want to be configurable in the SVG are set to a known unlikely random color (e.g. #ABCDEF), exporting as SVG XML from the editor and then just doing a global find/replace of (e.g.) #ABCDEF with currentColor. >> >> Warmest Regards, >> >> Mark. Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From monte at appisle.net Wed Apr 6 18:44:53 2022 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2022 08:44:53 +1000 Subject: Widget properties In-Reply-To: <30167ED7-D04B-4164-A99D-1AC5EB2A68E3@optusnet.com.au> References: <30167ED7-D04B-4164-A99D-1AC5EB2A68E3@optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: I suspect this will be classed as not a bug as there has never been any intention of supporting the properties for widgets as far as I’m aware but it might be worth submitting it anyway and detailing your use case. I think if you look at the old lcVCS discussions on the forums from before my time on the LC team Mark implemented import/export widget in response to my needs there. The properties is really not that worthwhile for widgets as it would only ever support the common object properties like visible, rect etc. Thinking back when I did a PR for the properties soon after LC went open source it should have been deprecated instead of accepting it. I wouldn’t have understood that was the best thing to do at the time though. It really would be better to add all the other object types to the import/export commands. One reason I think it would be good for you to submit a bug report is it could be changed to a docs bug and resolved by deprecating the properties, adding a note about the lack of widget support and the import/export command that can be used there and perhaps opening a feature request to support other objects in import/export. Cheers Monte > On 6 Apr 2022, at 10:03 pm, Neville Smythe via use-livecode wrote: > > Is it not a bug that > > the properties of widget “foo” > > returns empty (for all values of foo)? > > No rect, no visible, no disabled etc, even though these clearly are settable and functional properties of the widget. > > You can > > export widget “foo” to array “bar” > > but that gives the intrinsic properties of the widget not the usual object properties. Oh and don’t forget the reserved word “array” in the above line, that causes an IDE crash (bug 23655 confirmed) > > Neville > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Apr 6 19:39:03 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 16:39:03 -0700 Subject: Widget properties In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <732f0c05-d2b8-2f2f-2817-13127f2cacf7@fourthworld.com> Monte Goulding wrote: > ...there has never been any intention of supporting the properties > for widgets as far as Im aware... If the company wants widgets to be seen as first-class citizens, a little more conformity with existing object syntax would go a long way to making that happen. It's possible for the engine to derive a set of widget properties. If it's not also possible to map that into how "the properties" works that would be very enlightening. FWIW I've had requests to update my 4W Property Sheet tool to special-case for widgets. I tell people I'll take widgets seriously when the company does, and if they do I won't need to update my tool because the existing call to "the properties" that works for everything else will work for widgets. Maybe I've been overestimating the importance of widgets to LC Ltd. Guidance welcome. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Apr 6 19:50:37 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 23:50:37 +0000 Subject: Widget properties In-Reply-To: <732f0c05-d2b8-2f2f-2817-13127f2cacf7@fourthworld.com> References: <732f0c05-d2b8-2f2f-2817-13127f2cacf7@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <7061CA57-88C1-44FC-8186-2F77079F52DC@iotecdigital.com> Poor Widget. The bastard child of Livecode objects. ;-P Bob S > On Apr 6, 2022, at 16:39 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > Monte Goulding wrote: > > > ...there has never been any intention of supporting the properties > > for widgets as far as I’m aware... > > If the company wants widgets to be seen as first-class citizens, a little more conformity with existing object syntax would go a long way to making that happen. > > It's possible for the engine to derive a set of widget properties. If it's not also possible to map that into how "the properties" works that would be very enlightening. > > > FWIW I've had requests to update my 4W Property Sheet tool to special-case for widgets. I tell people I'll take widgets seriously when the company does, and if they do I won't need to update my tool because the existing call to "the properties" that works for everything else will work for widgets. > > Maybe I've been overestimating the importance of widgets to LC Ltd. Guidance welcome. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Wed Apr 6 20:38:50 2022 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2022 10:38:50 +1000 Subject: widget properties In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have submitted the bug report (Bug 23670 ) As others have said, it is not likely this will be considered a high priority bug but it should be on the record. Interestingly eg setting tbar[“textcolor”] to a value and then set the properties of widget “foo" to tbar does work (although the properties are still reported as empty). Many thanks for the reference to Ali’s forum article, which is very helpful. I came across this problem because I am adding listing of all object properties to my nsScriptdatabase utility. Thus in version 2 it will be possible to compare stacks in the database down to the complete saved state of the stack, and so (theoretically) reconstruct the stack. Ali’s post prompts me to add listing the handlers of a widget which could be very useful information. I expect to upload version 2 within a few days. Neville From monte at appisle.net Wed Apr 6 20:50:06 2022 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2022 10:50:06 +1000 Subject: Widget properties In-Reply-To: <732f0c05-d2b8-2f2f-2817-13127f2cacf7@fourthworld.com> References: <732f0c05-d2b8-2f2f-2817-13127f2cacf7@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <3103BF5D-B881-47D4-99EE-8EF5536A4101@appisle.net> > On 7 Apr 2022, at 9:39 am, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > Monte Goulding wrote: > > > ...there has never been any intention of supporting the properties > > for widgets as far as I’m aware... > > If the company wants widgets to be seen as first-class citizens, a little more conformity with existing object syntax would go a long way to making that happen. > > It's possible for the engine to derive a set of widget properties. If it's not also possible to map that into how "the properties" works that would be very enlightening. > > > FWIW I've had requests to update my 4W Property Sheet tool to special-case for widgets. I tell people I'll take widgets seriously when the company does, and if they do I won't need to update my tool because the existing call to "the properties" that works for everything else will work for widgets. > > Maybe I've been overestimating the importance of widgets to LC Ltd. Guidance welcome. It seems a stretch to imply the lack of support for a property that has little to no use case outside the IDE means the company doesn’t take widgets seriously but I’m not going to argue with you about that. I will say there’s two main use cases for `the properties` and neither of them it serves very well: - Getting the properties of an object to apply to recreate the object elsewhere. export widget does a much better job of this and was designed specifically for that use case. In some variants of this use case the copy command is much simpler to use here too. - Introspecting what properties an object has in order to create an editor without maintaining your own lists of properties. It has never been good at this. It doesn’t tell you anything about acceptable values for those properties, it doesn’t tell you the importance of the property, it doesn’t tell you about alternative object properties that may be more useful to edit (text, styledText, htmlText, rtfText etc) or whether it’s potentially risky to present a UI that can edit it. Really this use case is served best by a well documented library that covers all objects. Currently you would need to dig the details out of the IDE scripts Cheers Monte From ahsoftware at sonic.net Wed Apr 6 20:58:09 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 17:58:09 -0700 Subject: Widget properties In-Reply-To: <732f0c05-d2b8-2f2f-2817-13127f2cacf7@fourthworld.com> References: <732f0c05-d2b8-2f2f-2817-13127f2cacf7@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <98ce8a88-3b22-169c-e694-3ae981a89454@sonic.net> On 4/6/22 16:39, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > ...there has never been any intention of supporting the properties > > for widgets as far as Im aware... > > If the company wants widgets to be seen as first-class citizens, a > little more conformity with existing object syntax would go a long way > to making that happen. Adding to that is the incoming LCS widget architecture, so I'm not putting deep learning time into something I'll just have to unlearn when the next wave hits. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Apr 6 21:25:58 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 18:25:58 -0700 Subject: Widget properties In-Reply-To: <3103BF5D-B881-47D4-99EE-8EF5536A4101@appisle.net> References: <3103BF5D-B881-47D4-99EE-8EF5536A4101@appisle.net> Message-ID: <486e33ef-40a9-3c79-b0b2-240773317a28@fourthworld.com> Monte Goulding wrote: > It seems a stretch to imply the lack of support for a property that > has little to no use case outside the IDE means the company doesnt > take widgets seriously but Im not going to argue with you about that. A reasonable choice, given that "seriously" is a colloquialism with no specific quantifiable meaning. Here I used it to try to elicit LC's vision for widgets. I had the (quite possibly mistaken) notion that widgets were a way to craft reusable controls that would look and feel like engine objects, but with the advantage that they could be created from a scripting language. We see many queries here about messages common to all other controls not working with widgets, and now and then we see queries about properties and functions too. "The properties" is just the latest of these, and your view of that here is helpful: > I will say theres two main use cases for `the properties` and neither > of them it serves very well: > > - Getting the properties of an object to apply to recreate the object > elsewhere. export widget does a much better job of this and was > designed specifically for that use case. Can you help me understand how it's better than "the properties", and why this superior method isn't used for engine controls? > - Introspecting what properties an object has in order to create an > editor without maintaining your own lists of properties. It has never > been good at this. It doesnt tell you anything about acceptable > values for those properties, it doesnt tell you the importance of > the property, it doesnt tell you about alternative object properties > that may be more useful to edit (text, styledText, htmlText, rtfText > etc) or whether its potentially risky to present a UI that can edit > it. Really this use case is served best by a well documented library > that covers all objects. Currently you would need to dig the details > out of the IDE scripts That seems to answer the first question, though while the metadata about types and options is useful for some things, it would still be useful to get just the name-value pairs as "the properties" does. That the company has such a narrowly specific view of the applicability of "the properties" is indeed helpful. Thank you for chiming in. I use "the properties" in a great many things, even outside the IDE tools, though those are about half of everything I've been doing as one of the few people outside the company working full-time with LC for as long as I have. Much of what I do is bespoke authoring systems, and frequently they're implemented as plugins. This is something I love about xTalks, and the SC/MC/LC philosophy that's driven the post-HC world. SC's Bill Appleton summed it up well when he once said: "HyperCard is a multimedia authoring system. SuperCard is a tool you can use to build multimedia authoring systems." For myself, and a good many others I know, the value of making tools is not limited to the IDE team, but a core value and key differentiator of choosing LiveCode. I have lot of ways to make software. But few of them let me redefine the workflow as flexibly as an xTalk. And no xTalk has been as flexible as LiveCode. It's like the difference between a drawing program and a scriptable drawing program, or between Wordpress and Drupal, or between a sculpture and modeling clay. I appreciate your team making an IDE, but for most of us who make our living with it it's only part of the toolset we use. On the more consumer-facing side which may better fit a view in which tooling is seen as for the engine team only, consider styling: When we set "the properties" of an object, it affects only the keys present, leaving everything else alone. This means we can make arrays with any subset of relevant attributes we want, and apply them almost like style sheets with just one line. We can even save these prop subsets to disk as LSON files if we like, so we can reuse them, mixing and matching from screen to screen and project to project as we like. In fact, using "the properties" has become such a habit across so much of what I do I have to admit that I need to think about it to list them all, in the way a fish struggles to define water. Arrays are a great foundational data type, and being able to express controls with them efficiently and uniformly is a godsend. From my perspective, perhaps no less limited than someone who works all day on the IDE but coming at it from a different angle, the question seems less interesting as "Why is this useful?" than "How could it not be?" Let me simplify the question: How hard would it be for the team to map the existing means of extracting widget properties to "the properties"? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Apr 6 21:36:12 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 18:36:12 -0700 Subject: Widget properties In-Reply-To: <98ce8a88-3b22-169c-e694-3ae981a89454@sonic.net> References: <98ce8a88-3b22-169c-e694-3ae981a89454@sonic.net> Message-ID: <9d7e4461-4d12-b30b-1402-2099cffaf577@fourthworld.com> Mark Wieder wrote: > On 4/6/22 16:39, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > >> > ...there has never been any intention of supporting the properties >> > for widgets as far as Im aware... >> >> If the company wants widgets to be seen as first-class citizens, a >> little more conformity with existing object syntax would go a long >> way to making that happen. > > > Adding to that is the incoming LCS widget architecture, so I'm not > putting deep learning time into something I'll just have to unlearn > when the next wave hits. Succinctly put. Back when Ben was fleshing out the "before" and "after" messaging options, and the object-local mirror of the selectGroupedControls property for groups, and other such things that have made the DataGrid such a joy to work with, I had high hopes that this effort to encapsulate compound objects durably would continue. I'm very excited by the choice to return to that effort. LCB is a fine language, and I'm as envious of its indexed arrays as I am mystified why they haven't found their way into LCS. But it's so easy to make compound objects in LCS I haven't been able to justify the time to learn a similar-but-incompatible language. So soon we will have three classes of objects: engine-native, widgets, and whatever the LCS-based widgets are called. It would be great to have a single robust, uniform serialization for their attributes. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Wed Apr 6 22:04:07 2022 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2022 12:04:07 +1000 Subject: widget properties In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5593C51B-2909-4290-B6C1-CEC6121513B0@optusnet.com.au> Just a point of clarification; Ali’s post does not explain how to access the object properties of a widget. The properties returned by put the keys of (revIDEExtensionProperties("com.livecode.widget.foo")) are the intrinsic properties of the widget, which these days are accessible via the export widget “foo” to array tBar command. They are not the ordinary object properties such as its rect, visibility etc. My current workaround is to just make up a list of likely properties names, for example those of a group, deleting the few properties obviously specific to a group. Unfortunately LC doesn’t respond with a “object does not have this property” error message if you query any old reserved property key for a widget. An alternative would be to go through the properties shown in the Property Inspector deleting the intrinsic properties specific to the widget; but some intrinsic properties are also common object properties, eg showBorder, depending on the widget you choose, and further I am not entirely sure that the Property Inspector actually exposes all the properties of an object (?). It also lists interdependent properties (loc <- rect) which should not be returned by the properties function. Neville From monte at appisle.net Wed Apr 6 22:06:37 2022 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2022 12:06:37 +1000 Subject: Widget properties In-Reply-To: <486e33ef-40a9-3c79-b0b2-240773317a28@fourthworld.com> References: <3103BF5D-B881-47D4-99EE-8EF5536A4101@appisle.net> <486e33ef-40a9-3c79-b0b2-240773317a28@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <5CE95C1C-0D42-48B1-88A4-42B92D9B877F@appisle.net> > On 7 Apr 2022, at 11:25 am, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > > I will say there’s two main use cases for `the properties` and neither > > of them it serves very well: > > > > - Getting the properties of an object to apply to recreate the object > > elsewhere. export widget does a much better job of this and was > > designed specifically for that use case. > > Can you help me understand how it's better than "the properties", and why this superior method isn't used for engine controls? > Because the array created by export and used by import contains the state of the widget as is saved when saving the stack. The content may or may not be the same as the property names exposed to user scripts but a widget created with that state should be the same as if it were saved in the stack and the stack re-opened. > > > - Introspecting what properties an object has in order to create an > > editor without maintaining your own lists of properties. It has never > > been good at this. It doesn’t tell you anything about acceptable > > values for those properties, it doesn’t tell you the importance of > > the property, it doesn’t tell you about alternative object properties > > that may be more useful to edit (text, styledText, htmlText, rtfText > > etc) or whether it’s potentially risky to present a UI that can edit > > it. Really this use case is served best by a well documented library > > that covers all objects. Currently you would need to dig the details > > out of the IDE scripts > > That seems to answer the first question, though while the metadata about types and options is useful for some things, it would still be useful to get just the name-value pairs as "the properties" does. > > That the company has such a narrowly specific view of the applicability of "the properties" is indeed helpful. Thank you for chiming in. I’m not the company. Mark may spend a lot more time pondering the utility of `the properties` than I do and indeed may have a different opinion. Indeed my opinion was much closer to yours is now when I sent in a PR for LC 6.1 all those years ago ;-) > Let me simplify the question: > > How hard would it be for the team to map the existing means of extracting widget properties to "the properties”? I don’t think it would be particularly tricky to iterate the exported property definitions to come up with a list of property names then turn that into a key/value array. Whether it would provide the utility you are looking for is a separate question. Cheers Monte From tom at makeshyft.com Wed Apr 6 23:01:14 2022 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 23:01:14 -0400 Subject: Widget properties In-Reply-To: <5CE95C1C-0D42-48B1-88A4-42B92D9B877F@appisle.net> References: <3103BF5D-B881-47D4-99EE-8EF5536A4101@appisle.net> <486e33ef-40a9-3c79-b0b2-240773317a28@fourthworld.com> <5CE95C1C-0D42-48B1-88A4-42B92D9B877F@appisle.net> Message-ID: At the conference I will announce a plugin, which will have the code read and write widget properties. The code for the plugin will be on github. I'm insanely busy at the moment, so I can't accelerate the release. No magic, just hardcoded property names. :) On Wed, Apr 6, 2022 at 10:08 PM Monte Goulding via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > On 7 Apr 2022, at 11:25 am, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > > I will say there’s two main use cases for `the properties` and neither > > > of them it serves very well: > > > > > > - Getting the properties of an object to apply to recreate the object > > > elsewhere. export widget does a much better job of this and was > > > designed specifically for that use case. > > > > Can you help me understand how it's better than "the properties", and > why this superior method isn't used for engine controls? > > > > Because the array created by export and used by import contains the state > of the widget as is saved when saving the stack. The content may or may not > be the same as the property names exposed to user scripts but a widget > created with that state should be the same as if it were saved in the stack > and the stack re-opened. > > > > > > - Introspecting what properties an object has in order to create an > > > editor without maintaining your own lists of properties. It has never > > > been good at this. It doesn’t tell you anything about acceptable > > > values for those properties, it doesn’t tell you the importance of > > > the property, it doesn’t tell you about alternative object properties > > > that may be more useful to edit (text, styledText, htmlText, rtfText > > > etc) or whether it’s potentially risky to present a UI that can edit > > > it. Really this use case is served best by a well documented library > > > that covers all objects. Currently you would need to dig the details > > > out of the IDE scripts > > > > That seems to answer the first question, though while the metadata about > types and options is useful for some things, it would still be useful to > get just the name-value pairs as "the properties" does. > > > > That the company has such a narrowly specific view of the applicability > of "the properties" is indeed helpful. Thank you for chiming in. > > I’m not the company. Mark may spend a lot more time pondering the utility > of `the properties` than I do and indeed may have a different opinion. > Indeed my opinion was much closer to yours is now when I sent in a PR for > LC 6.1 all those years ago ;-) > > > Let me simplify the question: > > > > How hard would it be for the team to map the existing means of > extracting widget properties to "the properties”? > > I don’t think it would be particularly tricky to iterate the exported > property definitions to come up with a list of property names then turn > that into a key/value array. Whether it would provide the utility you are > looking for is a separate question. > > Cheers > > Monte > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ahsoftware at sonic.net Thu Apr 7 01:15:48 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 22:15:48 -0700 Subject: widget properties In-Reply-To: <5593C51B-2909-4290-B6C1-CEC6121513B0@optusnet.com.au> References: <5593C51B-2909-4290-B6C1-CEC6121513B0@optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <96b8493d-60d0-a70c-2970-b5e694aba1d1@sonic.net> On 4/6/22 19:04, Neville Smythe via use-livecode wrote: > Unfortunately LC doesnt respond with a object does not have this property error message if you query any old reserved property key for a widget. It's actually even worse. The clock widget, for instance: The exported array contains special color options. These appear in the property inspector colors pane. You can set the backgroundColor. You can query the backgroundColor. But it doesn't appear in the property inspector colors pane. It also doesn't appear in the custom properties pane. It does maintain a reasonable value, but it doesn't do anything. But it *is* serializable. So does that qualify as a "property" of the widget? Seems like it might be useful as a way to store "secret" information: passwords, api keys, etc. that won't appear anywhere and you have to know about them to query for them in the first place. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Apr 7 02:24:53 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 23:24:53 -0700 Subject: Widget properties In-Reply-To: <5CE95C1C-0D42-48B1-88A4-42B92D9B877F@appisle.net> References: <5CE95C1C-0D42-48B1-88A4-42B92D9B877F@appisle.net> Message-ID: <3e8b82d3-fce9-3010-8cc2-0c489970804e@fourthworld.com> Thank you for your reply, Monte. Comments inline: Monte Goulding wrote: >> On 7 Apr 2022, at 11:25 am, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> Can you help me understand how it's better than "the properties", >> and why this superior method isn't used for engine controls? > > Because the array created by export and used by import contains > the state of the widget as is saved when saving the stack. The > content may or may not be the same as the property names exposed > to user scripts but a widget created with that state should be > the same as if it were saved in the stack and the stack re-opened. I've never used a widget in production yet, so I can't say I have an opinion there. If the uses for widgets are viewed as sufficiently different from engine-based controls that "the properties" so many of us enjoy wouldn't apply, I'm okay with that. Just looking to understand. >> That the company has such a narrowly specific view of the >> applicability of "the properties" is indeed helpful. Thank >> you for chiming in. > > Im not the company. Pardon my imprecision. I think the readers here are likely aware that the company is comprised of many people, and there are likely many different opinions on a wide range of topics, including this. Please read that as "a significant member of the company". > Mark may spend a lot more time pondering the utility of `the > properties` than I do and indeed may have a different opinion. > Indeed my opinion was much closer to yours is now when I sent > in a PR for LC 6.1 all those years ago ;-) One of the challenges with a tool as vastly capable as LiveCode is wrapping one's head around all the use-cases, and all the perceived priorities. Various members of the company and the community have expressed a wide range of opinions on many things. If "the properties" winds up being like the pointer tool requests I used to ask about, no worries. I stopped asking about those years ago. Indeed, even with "the properties" I've had a few discussions on this with different team members going back to Dr Brett, back when LCB was in its earliest stages. In my own mind having two different methods for obtaining property data for two classes of objects is akin to having two different words for "rect" or other basic features. Where a useful implementation has been chosen and established so long ago, it seems worth mirroring in new implementations. But TBH, since I haven't used widgets in production at all, the only time it comes to mind is when someone asks me about it for one of my tools, or in discussions like this one. This seemed a good time to see what the current vision is. I appreciate the clarity provided. >> How hard would it be for the team to map the existing means of >> extracting widget properties to "the properties? > > I dont think it would be particularly tricky to iterate the exported > property definitions to come up with a list of property names then > turn that into a key/value array. Whether it would provide the utility > you are looking for is a separate question. If it does what "the properties" does it would suit my needs. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu Apr 7 06:52:14 2022 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2022 13:52:14 +0300 Subject: Widget properties In-Reply-To: <3e8b82d3-fce9-3010-8cc2-0c489970804e@fourthworld.com> References: <5CE95C1C-0D42-48B1-88A4-42B92D9B877F@appisle.net> <3e8b82d3-fce9-3010-8cc2-0c489970804e@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Here's my 25p's worth: Ever since widgets 'appeared' I have thought of them as second class citizens insofar as: 1. They are 'bits of stuff' where experts (the LiveCode team and so on) have done the heavy lifting for those of us who haven't got the skill, motivation or time to work out how to get that sort of thing together in LiveCode itself. 2. I certainly never get into widgets when I teach computer programming for a number of reasons: 2.1. While I teach children to program with LiveCode, the ultimate aim is to equip them with a series of transferrable skills they can take 'to the table' of any programming language: the ability to drop in a prepackaged 'does-it-for-you' add-on (one of the things that sets my teeth on edge about Python) does not, as far as I am concerned, constitute computer programming as such. Of course people might start shouting at me, at this point, and say, "Well then, why don't you go back to command-line programming?", to which my riposte is, "That's why I START my programming with teenagers (it's a bit too much for preteens) with BASIC programming on my BBC Micro machines I have lovingly curated in my school." After a day or two with BBC BASIC on a black screen teenagers will "do anything for me" when they see the, supposedly, old-fashioned LiveCode IDE and the ever-so-sexy WYSIWYG GUI. 2.2. While a LiveCode button can be examined via its property inspector, a widget largely cannot, so a learner cannot really begin to understand how it is put together. 3. Widgets are, undoubtedly very clever insofar as they provide tools and services out of the box, and types like myself don't have to spend an awful lot of effort working out how to roll our own. 4. I suppose the 'price' of a widget is just exactly that one cannot really get t its underpinnings (properties) in quite the way one can withg a native LiveCode object. Having said all this, I don't use widgets (beyond fooling around with them when I have a spare moment), and on my teaching computers the widgets section of the revTools palette is never exposed. Were widgets to be "integrated" into LiveCode as per buttons, fields, images and so forth, with properties palettes allowing a vast number of variables to be accessible, my attitude towards them might change; but that seems unlikely to happen as they are quite different beasts to buttons, fields, images and so on. Best, Richmond. On 7.04.22 9:24, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > Thank you for your reply, Monte. Comments inline: > > Monte Goulding wrote: > >> On 7 Apr 2022, at 11:25 am, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> Can you help me understand how it's better than "the properties", > >> and why this superior method isn't used for engine controls? > > > > Because the array created by export and used by import contains > > the state of the widget as is saved when saving the stack. The > > content may or may not be the same as the property names exposed > > to user scripts but a widget created with that state should be > > the same as if it were saved in the stack and the stack re-opened. > > I've never used a widget in production yet, so I can't say I have an > opinion there.  If the uses for widgets are viewed as sufficiently > different from engine-based controls that "the properties" so many of > us enjoy wouldn't apply, I'm okay with that. Just looking to understand. > > > >> That the company has such a narrowly specific view of the > >> applicability of "the properties" is indeed helpful. Thank > >> you for chiming in. > > > > Im not the company. > > Pardon my imprecision. I think the readers here are likely aware that > the company is comprised of many people, and there are likely many > different opinions on a wide range of topics, including this.  Please > read that as "a significant member of the company". > > > > Mark may spend a lot more time pondering the utility of `the > > properties` than I do and indeed may have a different opinion. > > Indeed my opinion was much closer to yours is now when I sent > > in a PR for LC 6.1 all those years ago ;-) > > One of the challenges with a tool as vastly capable as LiveCode is > wrapping one's head around all the use-cases, and all the perceived > priorities.  Various members of the company and the community have > expressed a wide range of opinions on many things. > > If "the properties" winds up being like the pointer tool requests I > used to ask about, no worries. I stopped asking about those years ago. > > Indeed, even with "the properties" I've had a few discussions on this > with different team members going back to Dr Brett, back when LCB was > in its earliest stages. > > In my own mind having two different methods for obtaining property > data for two classes of objects is akin to having two different words > for "rect" or other basic features.  Where a useful implementation has > been chosen and established so long ago, it seems worth mirroring in > new implementations. > > But TBH, since I haven't used widgets in production at all, the only > time it comes to mind is when someone asks me about it for one of my > tools, or in discussions like this one. This seemed a good time to see > what the current vision is. I appreciate the clarity provided. > > > >> How hard would it be for the team to map the existing means of > >> extracting widget properties to "the properties? > > > > I dont think it would be particularly tricky to iterate the exported > > property definitions to come up with a list of property names then > > turn that into a key/value array. Whether it would provide the utility > > you are looking for is a separate question. > > If it does what "the properties" does it would suit my needs. > From harrison at all-auctions.com Thu Apr 7 12:57:12 2022 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2022 12:57:12 -0400 Subject: Ken Burns LC Stack In-Reply-To: <96b8493d-60d0-a70c-2970-b5e694aba1d1@sonic.net> References: <5593C51B-2909-4290-B6C1-CEC6121513B0@optusnet.com.au> <96b8493d-60d0-a70c-2970-b5e694aba1d1@sonic.net> Message-ID: <893094C3-9FE7-4C41-B423-74D2186D5B82@all-auctions.com> I downloaded the Ken Burns LC Stack and found that it doesn’t seem to work. Is anyone else finding it doesn’t work? Thanks, Rick From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Thu Apr 7 13:47:02 2022 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2022 13:47:02 -0400 Subject: JWT Token Decode In-Reply-To: <893094C3-9FE7-4C41-B423-74D2186D5B82@all-auctions.com> References: <5593C51B-2909-4290-B6C1-CEC6121513B0@optusnet.com.au> <96b8493d-60d0-a70c-2970-b5e694aba1d1@sonic.net> <893094C3-9FE7-4C41-B423-74D2186D5B82@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: <006c01d84aa7$7fb51f80$7f1f5e80$@net> Subject says it all. Has anyone done this in LC? In JavaScript it's decodeURIComponent. Thanks! Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net From jiml at netrin.com Thu Apr 7 15:17:31 2022 From: jiml at netrin.com (Jim Lambert) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2022 12:17:31 -0700 Subject: Widget properties In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0557A8C3-995A-4E48-B612-41EB8CACF78D@netrin.com> > After a day or two with BBC BASIC on a black screen teenagers will "do > anything for me" when they see the, supposedly, > old-fashioned LiveCode IDE and the ever-so-sexy WYSIWYG GUI. Using the ol' psychology on 'em. Wily! From brian at milby7.com Thu Apr 7 22:11:28 2022 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2022 22:11:28 -0400 Subject: Mobile Image Editing Message-ID: Greetings list people! I am currently working on a project where we will be editing images on a mobile device. I'm running into an issue where the formatted height and width of the image change. Most of the images are natively 1600x1200 but we initially display them scaled to fit on the screen. When the user does any edit action at a zoomed out level, the image is downsized to the current zoom. Once downsized, if you zoom in on the image and edit, the formatted size doesn't change. Is there any way around this? What we would really like is to edit the image and keep it at the full resolution. We are currently using the native LiveCode paint/bucket tools. Although most of my testing is in the IDE at the moment, we do use resize handlers to format for the actual device resolution. Thanks for any thoughts or pointers, Brian From devin_asay at byu.edu Fri Apr 8 10:58:08 2022 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2022 14:58:08 +0000 Subject: OSS installer for Linux? Message-ID: Hi all, Does anyone still have the Community installer for LiveCode 9.6.3 Linux? I have a colleague I’m trying to show LC to, but he’s reluctant to d/l the trial version. - Devin Devin Asay Office of Digital Humanities Brigham Young University From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Fri Apr 8 11:03:03 2022 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2022 18:03:03 +0300 Subject: OSS installer for Linux? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: https://archive.org/download/live-code-community-linux-x64/LiveCodeCommunityInstaller-9_6_3-Linux.x64 On 8.04.22 17:58, Devin Asay via use-livecode wrote: > Hi all, > > Does anyone still have the Community installer for LiveCode 9.6.3 Linux? I have a colleague Im trying to show LC to, but hes reluctant to d/l the trial version. > > - Devin > > Devin Asay > Office of Digital Humanities > Brigham Young University > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From devin_asay at byu.edu Fri Apr 8 11:34:33 2022 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2022 15:34:33 +0000 Subject: OSS installer for Linux? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6769D413-80F1-4EA0-ABAD-0E4B04A25E82@byu.edu> Thanks, Richmond! On Apr 8, 2022, at 9:03 AM, Richmond via use-livecode > wrote: https://archive.org/download/live-code-community-linux-x64/LiveCodeCommunityInstaller-9_6_3-Linux.x64 On 8.04.22 17:58, Devin Asay via use-livecode wrote: Hi all, Does anyone still have the Community installer for LiveCode 9.6.3 Linux? I have a colleague I’m trying to show LC to, but he’s reluctant to d/l the trial version. - Devin Devin Asay Office of Digital Humanities Brigham Young University _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode Devin Asay Office of Digital Humanities Brigham Young University From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Fri Apr 8 14:03:48 2022 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2022 14:03:48 -0400 Subject: Apple App Store Server Notifications [was JWT Token Decode] In-Reply-To: <006c01d84aa7$7fb51f80$7f1f5e80$@net> References: <5593C51B-2909-4290-B6C1-CEC6121513B0@optusnet.com.au> <96b8493d-60d0-a70c-2970-b5e694aba1d1@sonic.net> <893094C3-9FE7-4C41-B423-74D2186D5B82@all-auctions.com> <006c01d84aa7$7fb51f80$7f1f5e80$@net> Message-ID: <003801d84b73$02592af0$070b80d0$@net> Apple App Store Server Notifications sends transaction data to your server. It is especially good for in-app purchase refunds. If you had previously recorded the transaction ID of the original purchase you can match it up to the server notification and attach it to a user. When you use the App Store Server Notifications you receive(in Post Raw) either standard issue JSON(v1) or JWT(v2). I was using v1. When v2 was offered the description said you get more events with v2. So I went with v2 and got into the JWT issue. I was able to get the data out of the JWT but I'm still figuring out the verification. JWT is 3 period delimited base 64 encoded items. Header, Payload and Signature. JWT is not encrypted but by using the header and signature you can see if the payload has been manipulated or has dropped/scrambled bits Because the hash will not match. The payload(base 64 encoded) contains some the previously observed v1 JSON data. The actual transaction data is in a JSON element as another JWT encoded string. Again you base 64 decode item 2(period delimited) the transaction data and viola the remaining v1 JSON transaction elements are there. JWT uses Base 64 URL encoding. The "+" and "/" are substituted with "-" and "_" so A JWT can exist in a URL without any problems. Just scratching the surface of this giant headache. I now have the both payloads JSON but have to figure out how to verify the hash. I'm no worse off than the v1 straight up JSON but "inquiring minds want to know". Film at 11. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Apr 8 14:49:13 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2022 13:49:13 -0500 Subject: Mobile Image Editing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9b9072af-1693-2f5b-134c-a27193384ef6@hyperactivesw.com> I'm not sure I understand. When you "downsize" do you mean you're scaling? Or are you creating a new image? Or cropping the original? On 4/7/22 9:11 PM, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote: > Greetings list people! > > I am currently working on a project where we will be editing images on a > mobile device. I'm running into an issue where the formatted height and > width of the image change. Most of the images are natively 1600x1200 but > we initially display them scaled to fit on the screen. When the user does > any edit action at a zoomed out level, the image is downsized to the > current zoom. Once downsized, if you zoom in on the image and edit, the > formatted size doesn't change. > > Is there any way around this? What we would really like is to edit the > image and keep it at the full resolution. > > We are currently using the native LiveCode paint/bucket tools. Although > most of my testing is in the IDE at the moment, we do use resize handlers > to format for the actual device resolution. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From brian at milby7.com Fri Apr 8 15:02:34 2022 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2022 15:02:34 -0400 Subject: Mobile Image Editing In-Reply-To: <9b9072af-1693-2f5b-134c-a27193384ef6@hyperactivesw.com> References: <9b9072af-1693-2f5b-134c-a27193384ef6@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: The image on the card it 320x200 (rough, for discussion). The file is 1280x800. I do an import as paint and the formatted size matches the file initially. Fill/draw anything and the formatted size is now the same as the object. I’m saying it is downsized (scaled down). If I zoom in so the object is 640x400 (some not visible as it is off the card), then edit the formatted size changes to match. Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 8, 2022, at 2:50 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > > I'm not sure I understand. When you "downsize" do you mean you're scaling? Or are you creating a new image? Or cropping the original? > >> On 4/7/22 9:11 PM, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote: >> Greetings list people! >> I am currently working on a project where we will be editing images on a >> mobile device. I'm running into an issue where the formatted height and >> width of the image change. Most of the images are natively 1600x1200 but >> we initially display them scaled to fit on the screen. When the user does >> any edit action at a zoomed out level, the image is downsized to the >> current zoom. Once downsized, if you zoom in on the image and edit, the >> formatted size doesn't change. >> Is there any way around this? What we would really like is to edit the >> image and keep it at the full resolution. >> We are currently using the native LiveCode paint/bucket tools. Although >> most of my testing is in the IDE at the moment, we do use resize handlers >> to format for the actual device resolution. > > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From klaus at major-k.de Mon Apr 11 13:51:35 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2022 19:51:35 +0200 Subject: Localizing e.g. "Answer dialog" featuzre reques = hibernated? Message-ID: <343444A5-DBE6-496E-A01A-0A59B24A4AF1@major-k.de> Hi all, some time ago I "feature requested" a possibility to localize e.g. the "Answer Dialog": Example: Cancel = english, which is always displayed currently Annuler = french Abbrechen = german All these are much longer words, so just setting the label of that button will not suffice. Bernd Niggeman provided a nifty solution for this inconvenience. But why on earth has this been "Hibernated"? Don't we all think that we should be able to localize all aspectcs of LC? Not the whole world is speaking english, ladies and gentlemen! Maybe you want to add a comment, thank you! Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon Apr 11 14:00:26 2022 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2022 21:00:26 +0300 Subject: Localizing e.g. "Answer dialog" featuzre reques = hibernated? In-Reply-To: <343444A5-DBE6-496E-A01A-0A59B24A4AF1@major-k.de> References: <343444A5-DBE6-496E-A01A-0A59B24A4AF1@major-k.de> Message-ID: Ah cud spak , an, aiblins it micht be mensefu, anent ither leids, but Ah jalouse that fowk widnae thole war jalouse qhat Ah wis ettlin an speiran eftir. On Mon, 11 Apr 2022, 20:52 Klaus major-k via use-livecode, < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi all, > > some time ago I "feature requested" a possibility to localize e.g. the > "Answer Dialog": > > > Example: > Cancel = english, which is always displayed currently > Annuler = french > Abbrechen = german > All these are much longer words, so just setting the label of that button > will not suffice. > Bernd Niggeman provided a nifty solution for this inconvenience. > > But why on earth has this been "Hibernated"? > > Don't we all think that we should be able to localize all aspectcs of LC? > Not the whole world is speaking english, ladies and gentlemen! > > Maybe you want to add a comment, thank you! > > > Best > > Klaus > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > https://www.major-k.de/bass > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Apr 12 11:29:19 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2022 15:29:19 +0000 Subject: Localizing e.g. "Answer dialog" featuzre reques = hibernated? In-Reply-To: References: <343444A5-DBE6-496E-A01A-0A59B24A4AF1@major-k.de> Message-ID: My thoughts exactly! Bob S > On Apr 11, 2022, at 11:00 , Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: > > Ah cud spak , an, aiblins it micht be mensefu, anent ither leids, but Ah > jalouse that fowk widnae thole war jalouse qhat Ah wis ettlin an speiran > eftir. > > On Mon, 11 Apr 2022, 20:52 Klaus major-k via use-livecode, < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> some time ago I "feature requested" a possibility to localize e.g. the >> "Answer Dialog": >> >> >> Example: >> Cancel = english, which is always displayed currently >> Annuler = french >> Abbrechen = german >> All these are much longer words, so just setting the label of that button >> will not suffice. >> Bernd Niggeman provided a nifty solution for this inconvenience. >> >> But why on earth has this been "Hibernated"? >> >> Don't we all think that we should be able to localize all aspectcs of LC? >> Not the whole world is speaking english, ladies and gentlemen! >> >> Maybe you want to add a comment, thank you! >> >> >> Best >> >> Klaus >> -- >> Klaus Major >> https://www.major-k.de >> https://www.major-k.de/bass >> klaus at major-k.de >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Tue Apr 12 14:15:02 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2022 20:15:02 +0200 Subject: Localizing e.g. "Answer dialog" featuzre reques = hibernated? In-Reply-To: References: <343444A5-DBE6-496E-A01A-0A59B24A4AF1@major-k.de> Message-ID: <1EDEF2E0-3ED8-417D-A75F-BC25BF054A7E@m-r-d.de> Maybe I would agree, too, if I understood what Richmond wrote. ;) Tried even Google translate for Scottish to German. No success... :) > Am 12.04.2022 um 17:29 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode : > > My thoughts exactly! > > Bob S > > >> On Apr 11, 2022, at 11:00 , Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Ah cud spak , an, aiblins it micht be mensefu, anent ither leids, but Ah >> jalouse that fowk widnae thole war jalouse qhat Ah wis ettlin an speiran >> eftir. >> >> On Mon, 11 Apr 2022, 20:52 Klaus major-k via use-livecode, < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> some time ago I "feature requested" a possibility to localize e.g. the >>> "Answer Dialog": >>> >>> >>> Example: >>> Cancel = english, which is always displayed currently >>> Annuler = french >>> Abbrechen = german >>> All these are much longer words, so just setting the label of that button >>> will not suffice. >>> Bernd Niggeman provided a nifty solution for this inconvenience. >>> >>> But why on earth has this been "Hibernated"? >>> >>> Don't we all think that we should be able to localize all aspectcs of LC? >>> Not the whole world is speaking english, ladies and gentlemen! >>> >>> Maybe you want to add a comment, thank you! >>> >>> >>> Best >>> >>> Klaus >>> -- >>> Klaus Major >>> https://www.major-k.de >>> https://www.major-k.de/bass >>> klaus at major-k.de >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From klaus at major-k.de Tue Apr 12 14:24:21 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2022 20:24:21 +0200 Subject: Localizing e.g. "Answer dialog" featuzre reques = hibernated? In-Reply-To: <1EDEF2E0-3ED8-417D-A75F-BC25BF054A7E@m-r-d.de> References: <343444A5-DBE6-496E-A01A-0A59B24A4AF1@major-k.de> <1EDEF2E0-3ED8-417D-A75F-BC25BF054A7E@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <37297FED-3EC6-4065-A7E1-8C6853827142@major-k.de> Hi all, > Am 12.04.2022 um 20:15 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode : > > Maybe I would agree, too, if I understood what Richmond wrote. ;) > Tried even Google translate for Scottish to German. No success... :) he wrote: Cannot say anything to this issue, but must confuse the list or I will lose my good reputation otherwise. :-D :-D :-D > Am 12.04.2022 um 17:29 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode : >> >> My thoughts exactly! >> >> Bob S >> >> >>> On Apr 11, 2022, at 11:00 , Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> Ah cud spak , an, aiblins it micht be mensefu, anent ither leids, but Ah >>> jalouse that fowk widnae thole war jalouse qhat Ah wis ettlin an speiran >>> eftir. >>> >>> On Mon, 11 Apr 2022, 20:52 Klaus major-k via use-livecode, < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> some time ago I "feature requested" a possibility to localize e.g. the >>>> "Answer Dialog": >>>> >>>> >>>> Example: >>>> Cancel = english, which is always displayed currently >>>> Annuler = french >>>> Abbrechen = german >>>> All these are much longer words, so just setting the label of that button >>>> will not suffice. >>>> Bernd Niggeman provided a nifty solution for this inconvenience. >>>> >>>> But why on earth has this been "Hibernated"? >>>> >>>> Don't we all think that we should be able to localize all aspectcs of LC? >>>> Not the whole world is speaking english, ladies and gentlemen! >>>> >>>> Maybe you want to add a comment, thank you! Best Klaus > -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Apr 12 14:50:13 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2022 18:50:13 +0000 Subject: Localizing e.g. "Answer dialog" featuzre reques = hibernated? In-Reply-To: <37297FED-3EC6-4065-A7E1-8C6853827142@major-k.de> References: <343444A5-DBE6-496E-A01A-0A59B24A4AF1@major-k.de> <1EDEF2E0-3ED8-417D-A75F-BC25BF054A7E@m-r-d.de> <37297FED-3EC6-4065-A7E1-8C6853827142@major-k.de> Message-ID: <864D80BF-F7EA-4C9A-89A4-7919E1F2934E@iotecdigital.com> That is a very loose translation. ;-) Bob S > On Apr 12, 2022, at 11:24 , Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi all, > >> Am 12.04.2022 um 20:15 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode : >> >> Maybe I would agree, too, if I understood what Richmond wrote. ;) >> Tried even Google translate for Scottish to German. No success... :) > > he wrote: > Cannot say anything to this issue, but must confuse the list or I will > lose my good reputation otherwise. > > :-D :-D :-D From sean at pidigital.co.uk Tue Apr 12 15:03:44 2022 From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Pi Digital) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2022 20:03:44 +0100 Subject: Localizing e.g. "Answer dialog" featuzre reques = hibernated? In-Reply-To: <37297FED-3EC6-4065-A7E1-8C6853827142@major-k.de> References: <37297FED-3EC6-4065-A7E1-8C6853827142@major-k.de> Message-ID: <5D2F7900-704C-42F7-93A4-E6F00893D8B2@pidigital.co.uk> Fantastic :D Sean > On 12 Apr 2022, at 19:24, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > > he wrote: > Cannot say anything to this issue, but must confuse the list or I will > lose my good reputation otherwise. > > :-D :-D :-D > >>>> On Apr 11, 2022, at 11:00 , Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: >>>> >>>> Ah cud spak , an, aiblins it micht be mensefu, anent ither leids, but Ah >>>> jalouse that fowk widnae thole war jalouse qhat Ah wis ettlin an speiran >>>> eftir. >>>> >>>> Best > > Klaus From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Apr 12 17:16:59 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2022 21:16:59 +0000 Subject: Standalone Error Dialog Message-ID: <59CC8175-761D-4C7A-9052-4F3173E4F44E@iotecdigital.com> Hi all. Some time ago I began getting an error dialog reporting: 1 File to include in standalone not found: "" This apparently is not causing any issues that I have found, but I would sure like to find out what is causing it and stop it. Is there a Standalone Builder log I can look at? Bob S From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue Apr 12 17:32:45 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2022 16:32:45 -0500 Subject: Standalone Error Dialog In-Reply-To: <59CC8175-761D-4C7A-9052-4F3173E4F44E@iotecdigital.com> References: <59CC8175-761D-4C7A-9052-4F3173E4F44E@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <1801fb17448.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Double check the files in the Copy Files pane of the standalone settings and make sure that the file paths are correct. I'm not aware of a log file for the builder. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On April 12, 2022 4:19:16 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > Hi all. > > Some time ago I began getting an error dialog reporting: > > 1 File to include in standalone not found: "" > > This apparently is not causing any issues that I have found, but I would > sure like to find out what is causing it and stop it. > > Is there a Standalone Builder log I can look at? > > Bob S > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Apr 12 18:51:05 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2022 22:51:05 +0000 Subject: Standalone Error Dialog In-Reply-To: <1801fb17448.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <59CC8175-761D-4C7A-9052-4F3173E4F44E@iotecdigital.com> <1801fb17448.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Ya that is the first place I looked. I even re-added them all one by one. In a prior version of Livecode (I couldn't say which now) this did not happen. When I first noticed it, I went back to that prior version and built a standalone and it did not happen. I can ive with it. Bob S > On Apr 12, 2022, at 14:32 , J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > > Double check the files in the Copy Files pane of the standalone settings and make sure that the file paths are correct. I'm not aware of a log file for the builder. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > On April 12, 2022 4:19:16 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > >> Hi all. >> >> Some time ago I began getting an error dialog reporting: >> >> 1 File to include in standalone not found: "" >> >> This apparently is not causing any issues that I have found, but I would sure like to find out what is causing it and stop it. >> >> Is there a Standalone Builder log I can look at? >> >> Bob S >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Apr 13 02:38:03 2022 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 09:38:03 +0300 Subject: Localizing e.g. "Answer dialog" featuzre reques = hibernated? In-Reply-To: <5D2F7900-704C-42F7-93A4-E6F00893D8B2@pidigital.co.uk> References: <37297FED-3EC6-4065-A7E1-8C6853827142@major-k.de> <5D2F7900-704C-42F7-93A4-E6F00893D8B2@pidigital.co.uk> Message-ID: "Ah cud spak , an, aiblins it micht be mensefu, anent ither leids, but Ah jalouse that fowk widnae thole war jalouse qhat Ah wis ettlin an speiran eftir." Your responses proves my point: 'I could talk about other languages, and, maybe it might make sense, but I suspect people would not agree or understand exactly what I was on about or aiming after.' And as the Scots who do use LiveCode are all perfectly functional in English . . . On Tue, Apr 12, 2022 at 10:04 PM Pi Digital via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Fantastic :D > > Sean > > > > On 12 Apr 2022, at 19:24, Klaus major-k via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > he wrote: > > Cannot say anything to this issue, but must confuse the list or I will > > lose my good reputation otherwise. > > > > :-D :-D :-D > > > >>>> On Apr 11, 2022, at 11:00 , Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Ah cud spak , an, aiblins it micht be mensefu, anent ither leids, but > Ah > >>>> jalouse that fowk widnae thole war jalouse qhat Ah wis ettlin an > speiran > >>>> eftir. > >>>> > >>>> Best > > > > Klaus > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- This communication may be unlawfully collected and stored by the Agents of a large number of governments in secret. The parties to this email do not consent to the retrieving or storing of this communication and any related metadata, as well as printing, copying, re-transmitting, disseminating, or otherwise using it. If you believe you have received this communication in error, please delete it immediately. From paul at researchware.com Wed Apr 13 10:58:57 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 10:58:57 -0400 Subject: Quick Windows 11 test... Message-ID: <552754ae-1e8c-d081-f246-c40340c25eba@researchware.com> Can someone on Windows 11 with either (or both) LC 9.6.6 and 9.6.7 execute put systemVersion() and tell me what is reported? From paul at researchware.com Wed Apr 13 11:03:39 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 11:03:39 -0400 Subject: Quick Windows 11 test... In-Reply-To: <552754ae-1e8c-d081-f246-c40340c25eba@researchware.com> References: <552754ae-1e8c-d081-f246-c40340c25eba@researchware.com> Message-ID: On 4/13/2022 10:58 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > Can someone on Windows 11 with either (or both) LC 9.6.6 and 9.6.7 > execute > > put systemVersion() > > and tell me what is reported? > I would also be really helpful to know exactly what put systemVersion() returns on macOS Monterey for LC 9.6.6 or 9.6.7 as well. From klaus at major-k.de Wed Apr 13 11:09:03 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 17:09:03 +0200 Subject: Quick Windows 11 test... In-Reply-To: References: <552754ae-1e8c-d081-f246-c40340c25eba@researchware.com> Message-ID: <45060647-EBE6-474F-BAC0-F30E3DE4B81C@major-k.de> Hi Paul, > Am 13.04.2022 um 17:03 schrieb Paul Dupuis via use-livecode : > > On 4/13/2022 10:58 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: >> Can someone on Windows 11 with either (or both) LC 9.6.6 and 9.6.7 execute >> >> put systemVersion() >> and tell me what is reported? > > I would also be really helpful to know exactly what > put systemVersion() > returns on macOS Monterey for LC 9.6.6 or 9.6.7 as well. macOS 12.3.1, LC 9.6.7 -> 10.16.0 Same with LC 9.6.6 Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Apr 13 11:12:16 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 17:12:16 +0200 Subject: Quick Windows 11 test... In-Reply-To: <552754ae-1e8c-d081-f246-c40340c25eba@researchware.com> References: <552754ae-1e8c-d081-f246-c40340c25eba@researchware.com> Message-ID: <11A6F21E-4753-4384-8188-53BDE602FB49@m-r-d.de> NT 10.0 > Am 13.04.2022 um 16:58 schrieb Paul Dupuis via use-livecode : > > Can someone on Windows 11 with either (or both) LC 9.6.6 and 9.6.7 execute > > put systemVersion() > > and tell me what is reported? > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From merakosp at gmail.com Wed Apr 13 11:19:44 2022 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis m) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 18:19:44 +0300 Subject: Quick Windows 11 test... In-Reply-To: <11A6F21E-4753-4384-8188-53BDE602FB49@m-r-d.de> References: <552754ae-1e8c-d081-f246-c40340c25eba@researchware.com> <11A6F21E-4753-4384-8188-53BDE602FB49@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: Hello all, The function systemversion() returns 10.16.0 on MacOS Big Sur and above. This is something we should fix. As a workaround, until this is fixed, you can use this to get the system version on MacOS: function mySystemVersion get shell("sw_vers -productVersion") return it end mySystemVersion Cheers, Panos -- On Wed, 13 Apr 2022 at 18:13, matthias rebbe via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > NT 10.0 > > > Am 13.04.2022 um 16:58 schrieb Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: > > > > Can someone on Windows 11 with either (or both) LC 9.6.6 and 9.6.7 > execute > > > > put systemVersion() > > > > and tell me what is reported? > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From klaus at major-k.de Wed Apr 13 11:34:58 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 17:34:58 +0200 Subject: Localizing e.g. "Answer dialog" featuzre reques = hibernated? In-Reply-To: <343444A5-DBE6-496E-A01A-0A59B24A4AF1@major-k.de> References: <343444A5-DBE6-496E-A01A-0A59B24A4AF1@major-k.de> Message-ID: Hi all, OK, all jokes aside, please add a comment to that bug if you agree, so it will hopefully be reopened! > Am 11.04.2022 um 19:51 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode : > > Hi all, > > some time ago I "feature requested" a possibility to localize e.g. the "Answer Dialog": > > Example: > Cancel = english, which is always displayed currently > Annuler = french > Abbrechen = german > All these are much longer words, so just setting the label of that button will not suffice. > Bernd Niggeman provided a nifty solution for this inconvenience. > > But why on earth has this been "Hibernated"? > Don't we all think that we should be able to localize all aspectcs of LC? Of course I only mean all the strings visible to the users of your apps! > Not the whole world is speaking english, ladies and gentlemen! > Maybe you want to add a comment, thank you! Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From paul at researchware.com Wed Apr 13 13:40:04 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 13:40:04 -0400 Subject: Quick Windows 11 test... In-Reply-To: References: <552754ae-1e8c-d081-f246-c40340c25eba@researchware.com> <11A6F21E-4753-4384-8188-53BDE602FB49@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: On 4/13/2022 11:19 AM, panagiotis m via use-livecode wrote: > Hello all, > > The function systemversion() returns 10.16.0 on MacOS Big Sur and above. > This is something we should fix. > > As a workaround, until this is fixed, you can use this to get the system > version on MacOS: > > function mySystemVersion > get shell("sw_vers -productVersion") > return it > end mySystemVersion > > Cheers, > Panos > -- > Panos (or any other LC staffer?) Do you have a companion work-around for Window 11 which where systemVersion() reports "NT 10.0"? From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Apr 13 14:01:17 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 20:01:17 +0200 Subject: Quick Windows 11 test... In-Reply-To: References: <552754ae-1e8c-d081-f246-c40340c25eba@researchware.com> <11A6F21E-4753-4384-8188-53BDE602FB49@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <876B1BAA-D58D-4F6E-9E63-2E534A53E0EC@m-r-d.de> Unfortunately Windows 11 shell command 'version" returns NT 10.0. That's the same value as Windows 10 returns. > Am 13.04.2022 um 19:40 schrieb Paul Dupuis via use-livecode : > > On 4/13/2022 11:19 AM, panagiotis m via use-livecode wrote: >> Hello all, >> >> The function systemversion() returns 10.16.0 on MacOS Big Sur and above. >> This is something we should fix. >> >> As a workaround, until this is fixed, you can use this to get the system >> version on MacOS: >> >> function mySystemVersion >> get shell("sw_vers -productVersion") >> return it >> end mySystemVersion >> >> Cheers, >> Panos >> -- >> > Panos (or any other LC staffer?) > > Do you have a companion work-around for Window 11 which where systemVersion() reports "NT 10.0"? > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Apr 13 14:05:26 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 20:05:26 +0200 Subject: Quick Windows 11 test... In-Reply-To: <876B1BAA-D58D-4F6E-9E63-2E534A53E0EC@m-r-d.de> References: <552754ae-1e8c-d081-f246-c40340c25eba@researchware.com> <11A6F21E-4753-4384-8188-53BDE602FB49@m-r-d.de> <876B1BAA-D58D-4F6E-9E63-2E534A53E0EC@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <5442BE82-C30D-4537-A67D-C5E6ABB8EA83@m-r-d.de> Ups, not 'version' but 'ver' returns 10.0.xxxxxx.x. In my case 10.0.22581.100 Any value above 22000 is Windows 11, any value below of 22000 is Windows 10. > Am 13.04.2022 um 20:01 schrieb matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de: > > Unfortunately Windows 11 shell command 'version" returns NT 10.0. > That's the same value as Windows 10 returns. > > > > > >> Am 13.04.2022 um 19:40 schrieb Paul Dupuis via use-livecode >: >> >> On 4/13/2022 11:19 AM, panagiotis m via use-livecode wrote: >>> Hello all, >>> >>> The function systemversion() returns 10.16.0 on MacOS Big Sur and above. >>> This is something we should fix. >>> >>> As a workaround, until this is fixed, you can use this to get the system >>> version on MacOS: >>> >>> function mySystemVersion >>> get shell("sw_vers -productVersion") >>> return it >>> end mySystemVersion >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Panos >>> -- >>> >> Panos (or any other LC staffer?) >> >> Do you have a companion work-around for Window 11 which where systemVersion() reports "NT 10.0"? >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Apr 13 14:26:09 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 20:26:09 +0200 Subject: Quick Windows 11 test... In-Reply-To: <5442BE82-C30D-4537-A67D-C5E6ABB8EA83@m-r-d.de> References: <552754ae-1e8c-d081-f246-c40340c25eba@researchware.com> <11A6F21E-4753-4384-8188-53BDE602FB49@m-r-d.de> <876B1BAA-D58D-4F6E-9E63-2E534A53E0EC@m-r-d.de> <5442BE82-C30D-4537-A67D-C5E6ABB8EA83@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: This here would return the macOS version and would return Windows 10 on version 10 and Windows 11 on version 11 If you also need this for other Windows version you have to extend it a little bit switch the platform case "Win32" put shell("ver") into tVersion set the itemdelimiter to "." if item 3 of tVersion >22000 then return "Windows 11" else return "Windows 10" end if break case "MacOS" get shell("sw_vers -productVersion") return it break end switch > Am 13.04.2022 um 20:05 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode : > > Ups, > > not 'version' but 'ver' returns 10.0.xxxxxx.x. > In my case 10.0.22581.100 > > > Any value above 22000 is Windows 11, any value below of 22000 is Windows 10. > > >> Am 13.04.2022 um 20:01 schrieb matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de: >> >> Unfortunately Windows 11 shell command 'version" returns NT 10.0. >> That's the same value as Windows 10 returns. >> >> >> >> >> >>> Am 13.04.2022 um 19:40 schrieb Paul Dupuis via use-livecode >: >>> >>> On 4/13/2022 11:19 AM, panagiotis m via use-livecode wrote: >>>> Hello all, >>>> >>>> The function systemversion() returns 10.16.0 on MacOS Big Sur and above. >>>> This is something we should fix. >>>> >>>> As a workaround, until this is fixed, you can use this to get the system >>>> version on MacOS: >>>> >>>> function mySystemVersion >>>> get shell("sw_vers -productVersion") >>>> return it >>>> end mySystemVersion >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Panos >>>> -- >>>> >>> Panos (or any other LC staffer?) >>> >>> Do you have a companion work-around for Window 11 which where systemVersion() reports "NT 10.0"? >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Apr 13 15:12:33 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 21:12:33 +0200 Subject: Quick Windows 11 test... In-Reply-To: References: <552754ae-1e8c-d081-f246-c40340c25eba@researchware.com> <11A6F21E-4753-4384-8188-53BDE602FB49@m-r-d.de> <876B1BAA-D58D-4F6E-9E63-2E534A53E0EC@m-r-d.de> <5442BE82-C30D-4537-A67D-C5E6ABB8EA83@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <5C95C0AE-70B8-46E1-913F-168403DAD8E4@m-r-d.de> Or you could execute this windows shell command in the LC shell() function wmic os get Caption /value which then would return something like this for example Caption=Microsoft Windows 11 Enterprise > Am 13.04.2022 um 20:26 schrieb matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de: > > This here would > > return the macOS version and would return Windows 10 on version 10 and Windows 11 on version 11 > If you also need this for other Windows version you have to extend it a little bit > > > switch the platform > case "Win32" > put shell("ver") into tVersion > set the itemdelimiter to "." > if item 3 of tVersion >22000 > then > return "Windows 11" > else > return "Windows 10" > end if > break > case "MacOS" > get shell("sw_vers -productVersion") > return it > break > end switch > > > > >> Am 13.04.2022 um 20:05 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode >: >> >> Ups, >> >> not 'version' but 'ver' returns 10.0.xxxxxx.x. >> In my case 10.0.22581.100 >> >> >> Any value above 22000 is Windows 11, any value below of 22000 is Windows 10. >> >> >>> Am 13.04.2022 um 20:01 schrieb matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de : >>> >>> Unfortunately Windows 11 shell command 'version" returns NT 10.0. >>> That's the same value as Windows 10 returns. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> Am 13.04.2022 um 19:40 schrieb Paul Dupuis via use-livecode >>: >>>> >>>> On 4/13/2022 11:19 AM, panagiotis m via use-livecode wrote: >>>>> Hello all, >>>>> >>>>> The function systemversion() returns 10.16.0 on MacOS Big Sur and above. >>>>> This is something we should fix. >>>>> >>>>> As a workaround, until this is fixed, you can use this to get the system >>>>> version on MacOS: >>>>> >>>>> function mySystemVersion >>>>> get shell("sw_vers -productVersion") >>>>> return it >>>>> end mySystemVersion >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Panos >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>> Panos (or any other LC staffer?) >>>> >>>> Do you have a companion work-around for Window 11 which where systemVersion() reports "NT 10.0"? >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Wed Apr 13 16:01:59 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 16:01:59 -0400 Subject: Quick Windows 11 test... In-Reply-To: <552754ae-1e8c-d081-f246-c40340c25eba@researchware.com> References: <552754ae-1e8c-d081-f246-c40340c25eba@researchware.com> Message-ID: Thank you to everyone for the responses. I hope that LC 10 will "fix" the systemVersion() to return customer meaningful OS version information, but I recognize that is hard to do when the OS manufacturers (I am looking at YOU Microsoft and Apple) do not update their OS APIs to return the same versions their MARKETING people insist on labeling the OSes as! Grrrrrr! From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Wed Apr 13 21:49:08 2022 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2022 11:49:08 +1000 Subject: widget properties In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: (Bug 23670 ) has been referred by QualityControl to Expert Review, as Panos was not sure whether this is a real bug. As a use-case I have commented that the properties of all controls, including widgets, is needed when comparing stacks for example. In the meantime, I have uploaded version 2 of nsScriptDatabase to Sample Stacks, now optionally allowing adding the properties of objects to the database, so the complete state of a stack is captured, although scripts remain the main focus. When using the "compare stacks” feature I make up a credible list of properties for widgets. Neville From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Wed Apr 13 22:58:27 2022 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2022 12:58:27 +1000 Subject: IAC for Livecode standalones In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <633AC005-E858-4D6E-870B-D26A4A9BE7FE@optusnet.com.au> When developing my recent utility I have thought it could be useful if other users could access the output from some of its features, in other words inter-application communication. Stacks can do this if the utility is running in the IDE but not when run as a standalone. Now a Mac fully-featured app is encouraged to implement AppleScript access. It appears LC has a couple of features for helping to implement AS, (send to program and reply) but implementing AC in an LC standalone still looks to be even more complicated than in Xcode, where it so painful than most apps don’t bother: you have to set up a separate event handler and create the AS dictionary, and the AS language itself is abstruse to say the least — but how fantastically useful are those apps like Excel which do the implementation well! LC appears to have nothing for VB for Windows and I have no idea how to to do it myself on Windows. And of course there is nothing for Linux (go away and write your own sockets implementation at both ends!!) How cool would it be if LC standalones could easily talk to each other, at least when running on the same platform, which is where AppleScript and VB live! It certainly is possible, I have done at least one half of it running scripts in an LC app from a shell interface, connecting via sockets; but the learning curve for the coding was high. [Remote IAC raises knotty problems of implementation (secure login or Html POST?) and heightened security problems - though LC actually already does Remote Debugging which is related but not quite the same as normal IAC usage; for example with Remote Debugging you can run any script remotely unless it is password protected, quite the opposite of what you want IAC access to do. And it only works from the IDE source] I don’t know if this idea has been raised before, but I reckon all it should need for a very LC-style implementation would be: In the target app, expose a handler by simply marking it as public. And preferably provide a manifest describing the usage and input/output.That’s it. No dictionary resource files, no coding. In the source app I'm guessing one would only have Open application “foo” for IAC with credentials “its me" -> an access id and array of handlers and their manifests Dispatch “myhandler” to application “foo” with -> the result or error if not handled for timed out Close application pAccessId The engine would handle finding the LC app, connecting to a socket automatically opened on launch if the app has a public handler, getting user authorisation [Allow Always? On Launch? On Request?] and swapping certificates, and then data transfer. I leave this part as an exercise for the reader Neville From dvglasgow at gmail.com Fri Apr 15 13:27:22 2022 From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David Glasgow) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2022 18:27:22 +0100 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. Message-ID: <93653D24-AA11-4929-84EA-8774D756CA3F@gmail.com> Hi folks, MacOS 10.13.6 and Livecode 9.6.0 It may be that this is well known to everyone but me. But just in case... I have a card (A) with two fields in separate groups. Field 1 contains many many thousands of lines of text which are filtered for keywords and the results displayed in field 2 (which can also be many thousands of lines). The user can navigate to a separate card (B) to view summary statistics and a bar chart. I found that worked fine, but navigating back from B to A always took many seconds and looked like a hang. The delay seemed to be in some way proportional to the number of lines in field 1 and field 2. By a slip of the finger I discovered that this lag disappears completely if the groups containing field 1 and 2 are also placed on the summary stats card B. There is no real need for either to be there otherwise , and it seems they can even be invisible. I tried to see if there is a significant memory overhead to doing this, but there doesn’t seem to be. Is this a known thing? And either way, is there a better approach, or a downside I haven’t considered? Best Wishes, David Glasgow From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Apr 15 15:35:57 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2022 19:35:57 +0000 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: <93653D24-AA11-4929-84EA-8774D756CA3F@gmail.com> References: <93653D24-AA11-4929-84EA-8774D756CA3F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <9CDC6EB2-8686-4406-9D66-B703C53724A3@iotecdigital.com> Not sure why you are having this issue, but I will say that this is one of the primary reasons Datagrids were created. Table fields with large amounts of data were causing issues, and especially if the limits of lines or characters were exceeded. With a Datagrid however, only the data that is visible is actually being displayed. For example, you can have a datagrid with 10 visible rows and containing 10,000 lines of text (or array keys if you prefer) but only 10 lines of data will actually be in fields in the datagrid. There is wizardry in play when you scroll. It *appears* like there is data above and below the visible data, but trust me there is not. You can think of a datagrid as a moving window above the data. Anything not showing throught the window is not being processed by your vision, if you take my clumsy analogy. Once the data is in the datagrid, there are a number of ways to work with it. I like using the dgData of the datagrid which returns a numbered array, because I have written functions like filterArray and arrayToSQLite, cursorToArray, arrayToText, mergeArray etc. which allow me to work efficiently with these numbered arrays. Of particular interest to you might be the arrayToSQLite, bcause once you have data in an sqLite table, querying is a much more powerful (and efficient) way of getting just the data you want, such as the information displayed in your summary page. To use datagrids, you only need to know about a few properties, particularly the dgData, the dgText, the dgHilitedLine / Index, the dgDataOfLine / Index and handling the selectionChanged message. Bob S > On Apr 15, 2022, at 10:27 , David Glasgow via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi folks, > > > MacOS 10.13.6 and Livecode 9.6.0 > > It may be that this is well known to everyone but me. But just in case... > > I have a card (A) with two fields in separate groups. Field 1 contains many many thousands of lines of text which are filtered for keywords and the results displayed in field 2 (which can also be many thousands of lines). The user can navigate to a separate card (B) to view summary statistics and a bar chart. > > I found that worked fine, but navigating back from B to A always took many seconds and looked like a hang. The delay seemed to be in some way proportional to the number of lines in field 1 and field 2. > > By a slip of the finger I discovered that this lag disappears completely if the groups containing field 1 and 2 are also placed on the summary stats card B. There is no real need for either to be there otherwise , and it seems they can even be invisible. I tried to see if there is a significant memory overhead to doing this, but there doesn’t seem to be. > > Is this a known thing? And either way, is there a better approach, or a downside I haven’t considered? > > Best Wishes, > > David Glasgow > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dvglasgow at gmail.com Sat Apr 16 04:39:21 2022 From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David V Glasgow) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2022 09:39:21 +0100 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: <9CDC6EB2-8686-4406-9D66-B703C53724A3@iotecdigital.com> References: <93653D24-AA11-4929-84EA-8774D756CA3F@gmail.com> <9CDC6EB2-8686-4406-9D66-B703C53724A3@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <7E336532-CCB4-4DA8-B5BB-4677587424D9@gmail.com> Thanks for this, Bob. I have followed various discussions about datagrids, but didn’t appreciate the property your “window on the data” metaphor describes. I have also noticed that processing text in a variable is amazingly fast but then the results being put into a field takes a lot of time. I assume the linking of a text variable to a datagrid would also avoid that bottleneck? That is very interesting and I will explore the functions you describe. Thanks very much. Best Wishes, David Glasgow > On 15 Apr 2022, at 8:35 pm, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > Not sure why you are having this issue, but I will say that this is one of the primary reasons Datagrids were created. Table fields with large amounts of data were causing issues, and especially if the limits of lines or characters were exceeded. > > With a Datagrid however, only the data that is visible is actually being displayed. For example, you can have a datagrid with 10 visible rows and containing 10,000 lines of text (or array keys if you prefer) but only 10 lines of data will actually be in fields in the datagrid. There is wizardry in play when you scroll. It *appears* like there is data above and below the visible data, but trust me there is not. You can think of a datagrid as a moving window above the data. Anything not showing throught the window is not being processed by your vision, if you take my clumsy analogy. > > Once the data is in the datagrid, there are a number of ways to work with it. I like using the dgData of the datagrid which returns a numbered array, because I have written functions like filterArray and arrayToSQLite, cursorToArray, arrayToText, mergeArray etc. which allow me to work efficiently with these numbered arrays. > > Of particular interest to you might be the arrayToSQLite, bcause once you have data in an sqLite table, querying is a much more powerful (and efficient) way of getting just the data you want, such as the information displayed in your summary page. > > To use datagrids, you only need to know about a few properties, particularly the dgData, the dgText, the dgHilitedLine / Index, the dgDataOfLine / Index and handling the selectionChanged message. > > Bob S > > >> On Apr 15, 2022, at 10:27 , David Glasgow via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Hi folks, >> >> >> MacOS 10.13.6 and Livecode 9.6.0 >> >> It may be that this is well known to everyone but me. But just in case... >> >> I have a card (A) with two fields in separate groups. Field 1 contains many many thousands of lines of text which are filtered for keywords and the results displayed in field 2 (which can also be many thousands of lines). The user can navigate to a separate card (B) to view summary statistics and a bar chart. >> >> I found that worked fine, but navigating back from B to A always took many seconds and looked like a hang. The delay seemed to be in some way proportional to the number of lines in field 1 and field 2. >> >> By a slip of the finger I discovered that this lag disappears completely if the groups containing field 1 and 2 are also placed on the summary stats card B. There is no real need for either to be there otherwise , and it seems they can even be invisible. I tried to see if there is a significant memory overhead to doing this, but there doesn’t seem to be. >> >> Is this a known thing? And either way, is there a better approach, or a downside I haven’t considered? >> >> Best Wishes, >> >> David Glasgow >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat Apr 16 15:20:37 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2022 12:20:37 -0700 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: <93653D24-AA11-4929-84EA-8774D756CA3F@gmail.com> References: <93653D24-AA11-4929-84EA-8774D756CA3F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3b85009b-b04a-8545-debb-300584970309@fourthworld.com> David Glasgow wrote: > I have a card (A) with two fields in separate groups. Field 1 > contains many many thousands of lines of text which are filtered > for keywords and the results displayed in field 2 (which can also > be many thousands of lines). The user can navigate to a separate > card (B) to view summary statistics and a bar chart. > > I found that worked fine, but navigating back from B to A always > took many seconds and looked like a hang. The delay seemed to be > in some way proportional to the number of lines in field 1 and > field 2. How many is "many many thousands of lines"? 10k? 100k? More? Is the data displayed in list fields, or must the line wraps be calculated? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From jiml at netrin.com Sat Apr 16 15:46:16 2022 From: jiml at netrin.com (Jim Lambert) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2022 12:46:16 -0700 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > but then the results being put into a field takes a lot of time. Does locking the screen before putting text into the field help speed things up? From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Apr 16 17:40:59 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2022 16:40:59 -0500 Subject: Pixel 5 Message-ID: <359a6dca-ef11-76d1-7307-08737cad86eb@hyperactivesw.com> If anyone is interested in acquiring a Pixel 5 please contact me. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Sat Apr 16 19:30:05 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2022 23:30:05 +0000 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: <7E336532-CCB4-4DA8-B5BB-4677587424D9@gmail.com> References: <93653D24-AA11-4929-84EA-8774D756CA3F@gmail.com> <9CDC6EB2-8686-4406-9D66-B703C53724A3@iotecdigital.com> <7E336532-CCB4-4DA8-B5BB-4677587424D9@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0F185C31-A5DA-48E4-88DF-9CF0F1D33ED7@iotecdigital.com> Yes, I think you have it when you say that displaying text in a field is processor intensive. Fields are notoriously inefficient at storage. Do all your processing in memory and then display your results in whatever object you desire. Datagrids can provide an efficient intermediary display mechanism because the data is already in a form that is easy to work with, namely arrays. An array is merely a handle to a position in memory. A datagrid is a window on that object. As you scroll through the datagrid, you are only manipulating the data appearing in the window, and not the data itself. A field is different in that how the data appears in the interface must be calculated in advance. Think of it like the old “How do you eat an Elephant” allegory. The Datagrid eats the Elephant, “One Bite At a Time.” The field tries to eat the Elephant all at once. Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 16, 2022, at 01:40, David V Glasgow via use-livecode wrote: > > Thanks for this, Bob. I have followed various discussions about datagrids, but didn’t appreciate the property your “window on the data” metaphor describes. I have also noticed that processing text in a variable is amazingly fast but then the results being put into a field takes a lot of time. I assume the linking of a text variable to a datagrid would also avoid that bottleneck? > > That is very interesting and I will explore the functions you describe. Thanks very much. > > Best Wishes, > > David Glasgow > > >> On 15 Apr 2022, at 8:35 pm, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Not sure why you are having this issue, but I will say that this is one of the primary reasons Datagrids were created. Table fields with large amounts of data were causing issues, and especially if the limits of lines or characters were exceeded. >> >> With a Datagrid however, only the data that is visible is actually being displayed. For example, you can have a datagrid with 10 visible rows and containing 10,000 lines of text (or array keys if you prefer) but only 10 lines of data will actually be in fields in the datagrid. There is wizardry in play when you scroll. It *appears* like there is data above and below the visible data, but trust me there is not. You can think of a datagrid as a moving window above the data. Anything not showing throught the window is not being processed by your vision, if you take my clumsy analogy. >> >> Once the data is in the datagrid, there are a number of ways to work with it. I like using the dgData of the datagrid which returns a numbered array, because I have written functions like filterArray and arrayToSQLite, cursorToArray, arrayToText, mergeArray etc. which allow me to work efficiently with these numbered arrays. >> >> Of particular interest to you might be the arrayToSQLite, bcause once you have data in an sqLite table, querying is a much more powerful (and efficient) way of getting just the data you want, such as the information displayed in your summary page. >> >> To use datagrids, you only need to know about a few properties, particularly the dgData, the dgText, the dgHilitedLine / Index, the dgDataOfLine / Index and handling the selectionChanged message. >> >> Bob S >> >> >>>> On Apr 15, 2022, at 10:27 , David Glasgow via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> Hi folks, >>> >>> >>> MacOS 10.13.6 and Livecode 9.6.0 >>> >>> It may be that this is well known to everyone but me. But just in case... >>> >>> I have a card (A) with two fields in separate groups. Field 1 contains many many thousands of lines of text which are filtered for keywords and the results displayed in field 2 (which can also be many thousands of lines). The user can navigate to a separate card (B) to view summary statistics and a bar chart. >>> >>> I found that worked fine, but navigating back from B to A always took many seconds and looked like a hang. The delay seemed to be in some way proportional to the number of lines in field 1 and field 2. >>> >>> By a slip of the finger I discovered that this lag disappears completely if the groups containing field 1 and 2 are also placed on the summary stats card B. There is no real need for either to be there otherwise , and it seems they can even be invisible. I tried to see if there is a significant memory overhead to doing this, but there doesn’t seem to be. >>> >>> Is this a known thing? And either way, is there a better approach, or a downside I haven’t considered? >>> >>> Best Wishes, >>> >>> David Glasgow >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Apr 16 22:11:46 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2022 21:11:46 -0500 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: <0F185C31-A5DA-48E4-88DF-9CF0F1D33ED7@iotecdigital.com> References: <93653D24-AA11-4929-84EA-8774D756CA3F@gmail.com> <9CDC6EB2-8686-4406-9D66-B703C53724A3@iotecdigital.com> <7E336532-CCB4-4DA8-B5BB-4677587424D9@gmail.com> <0F185C31-A5DA-48E4-88DF-9CF0F1D33ED7@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <180354a56d0.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> So fields are snakes and datagrids are mice. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On April 16, 2022 6:32:19 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > The Datagrid eats the Elephant, One Bite At a Time. The field tries to > eat the Elephant all at once. From dochawk at gmail.com Sat Apr 16 23:05:40 2022 From: dochawk at gmail.com (doc hawk) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2022 20:05:40 -0700 Subject: Pixel 5 In-Reply-To: <359a6dca-ef11-76d1-7307-08737cad86eb@hyperactivesw.com> References: <359a6dca-ef11-76d1-7307-08737cad86eb@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <09364CD0-144A-4569-80C9-ABE0B1F55508@gmail.com> For some reason, I feel a sudden urge to sprinkle my doorstep with Holy Water . . . From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun Apr 17 01:50:30 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 00:50:30 -0500 Subject: Pixel 5 In-Reply-To: <09364CD0-144A-4569-80C9-ABE0B1F55508@gmail.com> References: <359a6dca-ef11-76d1-7307-08737cad86eb@hyperactivesw.com> <09364CD0-144A-4569-80C9-ABE0B1F55508@gmail.com> Message-ID: <18036129870.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> You don't know what you're missing. :) There's so little freedom over on the other side. I could never go back. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On April 16, 2022 10:07:48 PM doc hawk via use-livecode wrote: > For some reason, I feel a sudden urge to sprinkle my doorstep with Holy > Water . . . > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dvglasgow at gmail.com Sun Apr 17 04:00:24 2022 From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David V Glasgow) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 09:00:24 +0100 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Jim, The text in fields doesn’t move or change after the initial analysis. the slowdown is just navigating back to to the card containing the fields from from one which doesn’t contain the fields. Cheers David G > On 16 Apr 2022, at 8:46 pm, Jim Lambert via use-livecode wrote: > > >> but then the results being put into a field takes a lot of time. > > Does locking the screen before putting text into the field help speed things up? > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dvglasgow at gmail.com Sun Apr 17 04:06:46 2022 From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David V Glasgow) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 09:06:46 +0100 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: <3b85009b-b04a-8545-debb-300584970309@fourthworld.com> References: <93653D24-AA11-4929-84EA-8774D756CA3F@gmail.com> <3b85009b-b04a-8545-debb-300584970309@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <7250B533-189C-4B87-8E19-4461D61319B4@gmail.com> Hi Richard > On 16 Apr 2022, at 8:20 pm, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > How many is "many many thousands of lines"? 10k? 100k? More? Typically 30,000 to 800,000. One field wrapped (the imported ‘source’ text) and the other a, unwrapped list of found lines containing a keyword. > > Is the data displayed in list fields, or must the line wraps be calculated? The wrapped line field is locked and doesn’t change after import and is unaffected by the keyword-containing-lines process. I suppose a good question is are line wraps recalculated on navigation to the card. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web From dvglasgow at gmail.com Sun Apr 17 04:10:30 2022 From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David V Glasgow) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 09:10:30 +0100 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: <0F185C31-A5DA-48E4-88DF-9CF0F1D33ED7@iotecdigital.com> References: <93653D24-AA11-4929-84EA-8774D756CA3F@gmail.com> <9CDC6EB2-8686-4406-9D66-B703C53724A3@iotecdigital.com> <7E336532-CCB4-4DA8-B5BB-4677587424D9@gmail.com> <0F185C31-A5DA-48E4-88DF-9CF0F1D33ED7@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: > On 17 Apr 2022, at 12:30 am, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > Yes, I think you have it when you say that displaying text in a field is processor intensive. Fields are notoriously inefficient at storage. Do all your processing in memory and then display your results in whatever object you desire. Yup, I do that. processing takes time, but honestly it is amazingly fast. Dumping found lines into the results field takes a surprising amount of time, but even that doesn’t bother me too much. The issue is purely navigating back to the card containing the 600lb fields from any card that doesn’t. > Datagrids can provide an efficient intermediary display mechanism because the data is already in a form that is easy to work with, namely arrays. An array is merely a handle to a position in memory. A datagrid is a window on that object. As you scroll through the datagrid, you are only manipulating the data appearing in the window, and not the data itself. > > A field is different in that how the data appears in the interface must be calculated in advance. Think of it like the old “How do you eat an Elephant” allegory. The Datagrid eats the Elephant, “One Bite At a Time.” The field tries to eat the Elephant all at once. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Apr 16, 2022, at 01:40, David V Glasgow via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Thanks for this, Bob. I have followed various discussions about datagrids, but didn’t appreciate the property your “window on the data” metaphor describes. I have also noticed that processing text in a variable is amazingly fast but then the results being put into a field takes a lot of time. I assume the linking of a text variable to a datagrid would also avoid that bottleneck? >> >> That is very interesting and I will explore the functions you describe. Thanks very much. >> >> Best Wishes, >> >> David Glasgow >> >> >>> On 15 Apr 2022, at 8:35 pm, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> Not sure why you are having this issue, but I will say that this is one of the primary reasons Datagrids were created. Table fields with large amounts of data were causing issues, and especially if the limits of lines or characters were exceeded. >>> >>> With a Datagrid however, only the data that is visible is actually being displayed. For example, you can have a datagrid with 10 visible rows and containing 10,000 lines of text (or array keys if you prefer) but only 10 lines of data will actually be in fields in the datagrid. There is wizardry in play when you scroll. It *appears* like there is data above and below the visible data, but trust me there is not. You can think of a datagrid as a moving window above the data. Anything not showing throught the window is not being processed by your vision, if you take my clumsy analogy. >>> >>> Once the data is in the datagrid, there are a number of ways to work with it. I like using the dgData of the datagrid which returns a numbered array, because I have written functions like filterArray and arrayToSQLite, cursorToArray, arrayToText, mergeArray etc. which allow me to work efficiently with these numbered arrays. >>> >>> Of particular interest to you might be the arrayToSQLite, bcause once you have data in an sqLite table, querying is a much more powerful (and efficient) way of getting just the data you want, such as the information displayed in your summary page. >>> >>> To use datagrids, you only need to know about a few properties, particularly the dgData, the dgText, the dgHilitedLine / Index, the dgDataOfLine / Index and handling the selectionChanged message. >>> >>> Bob S >>> >>> >>>>> On Apr 15, 2022, at 10:27 , David Glasgow via use-livecode wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi folks, >>>> >>>> >>>> MacOS 10.13.6 and Livecode 9.6.0 >>>> >>>> It may be that this is well known to everyone but me. But just in case... >>>> >>>> I have a card (A) with two fields in separate groups. Field 1 contains many many thousands of lines of text which are filtered for keywords and the results displayed in field 2 (which can also be many thousands of lines). The user can navigate to a separate card (B) to view summary statistics and a bar chart. >>>> >>>> I found that worked fine, but navigating back from B to A always took many seconds and looked like a hang. The delay seemed to be in some way proportional to the number of lines in field 1 and field 2. >>>> >>>> By a slip of the finger I discovered that this lag disappears completely if the groups containing field 1 and 2 are also placed on the summary stats card B. There is no real need for either to be there otherwise , and it seems they can even be invisible. I tried to see if there is a significant memory overhead to doing this, but there doesn’t seem to be. >>>> >>>> Is this a known thing? And either way, is there a better approach, or a downside I haven’t considered? >>>> >>>> Best Wishes, >>>> >>>> David Glasgow >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sun Apr 17 09:48:39 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 06:48:39 -0700 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: <7250B533-189C-4B87-8E19-4461D61319B4@gmail.com> References: <7250B533-189C-4B87-8E19-4461D61319B4@gmail.com> Message-ID: <52bd473f-7bea-c605-fc71-1c724d247974@fourthworld.com> David V Glasgow wrote: > On 16 Apr 2022, at 8:20 pm, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> >> How many is "many many thousands of lines"? 10k? 100k? More? > > Typically 30,000 to 800,000. What is the user asked to do with 800,000 lines of data? That is, does this need to be displayed? >> Is the data displayed in list fields, or must the line wraps be >> calculated? > > The wrapped line field is locked and doesnt change after import > and is unaffected by the keyword-containing-lines process. I > suppose a good question is are line wraps recalculated on navigation > to the card. I'd guess that the card record is unpacked before rendering, which would include the controls, such as fields, and their contents. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems From craig at starfirelighting.com Mon Apr 18 10:04:44 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2022 10:04:44 -0400 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: <52bd473f-7bea-c605-fc71-1c724d247974@fourthworld.com> References: <7250B533-189C-4B87-8E19-4461D61319B4@gmail.com> <52bd473f-7bea-c605-fc71-1c724d247974@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <91D0C81F-5764-43D7-A1DD-5A8DAC8858EA@starfirelighting.com> I think on the forum a few years ago we played with a gadget that only displayed a small number of lines of a very large dataset. That would perhaps allow a table field to be used without having to learn all about dataGrids. I will try to find that discussion. Not that it is not a good idea to at least use the basics of a DG as a standard tool as a matter of course. Craig > On Apr 17, 2022, at 9:48 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > > David V Glasgow wrote: > > > On 16 Apr 2022, at 8:20 pm, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> > >> How many is "many many thousands of lines"? 10k? 100k? More? > > > > Typically 30,000 to 800,000. > > What is the user asked to do with 800,000 lines of data? > > That is, does this need to be displayed? > > > >> Is the data displayed in list fields, or must the line wraps be > >> calculated? > > > > The wrapped line field is locked and doesn’t change after import > > and is unaffected by the keyword-containing-lines process. I > > suppose a good question is are line wraps recalculated on navigation > > to the card. > > I'd guess that the card record is unpacked before rendering, which would include the controls, such as fields, and their contents. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Apr 18 12:42:40 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2022 09:42:40 -0700 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: <91D0C81F-5764-43D7-A1DD-5A8DAC8858EA@starfirelighting.com> References: <91D0C81F-5764-43D7-A1DD-5A8DAC8858EA@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: <9b0e6cd0-219b-8bcd-7089-62cdfd1025e4@fourthworld.com> Yes, there are many ways to explore HOW to display data. My question is WHY. Or more specifically, "What is the user asked to do with the data?" If we solve the display challenge without considering the user task, the user task remains unaddressed. But if we craft the UI to support the user task, I suspect the display question will resolve itself. Maybe. Or maybe not. We'll find out when David returns to this thread to tell us about the user task. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Craig Newman wrote: > I think on the forum a few years ago we played with a gadget that only displayed a small number of lines of a very large dataset. That would perhaps allow a table field to be used without having to learn all about dataGrids. I will try to find that discussion. > > Not that it is not a good idea to at least use the basics of a DG as a standard tool as a matter of course. > > Craig > >> On Apr 17, 2022, at 9:48 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >> >> >> David V Glasgow wrote: >> >> > On 16 Apr 2022, at 8:20 pm, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> >> >> >> How many is "many many thousands of lines"? 10k? 100k? More? >> > >> > Typically 30,000 to 800,000. >> >> What is the user asked to do with 800,000 lines of data? >> >> That is, does this need to be displayed? >> >> >> >> Is the data displayed in list fields, or must the line wraps be >> >> calculated? >> > >> > The wrapped line field is locked and doesnt change after import >> > and is unaffected by the keyword-containing-lines process. I >> > suppose a good question is are line wraps recalculated on navigation >> > to the card. >> >> I'd guess that the card record is unpacked before rendering, which would include the controls, such as fields, and their contents. >> >> -- >> Richard Gaskin >> Fourth World Systems From dfe4 at cornell.edu Mon Apr 18 12:44:13 2022 From: dfe4 at cornell.edu (David Epstein) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2022 12:44:13 -0400 Subject: Using LiveCode with Mac Photos App References: Message-ID: I want to allow selection of some images from my Mac Photos library and show them as “referenced” images in a LiveCode stack. Is there an efficient way to do this? What would be great is to open Photos, drag images from there to my LiveCode stack, and record in LiveCode the file location of the original image. But this seems not to work from within Photos, only with images that have been exported (e.g., I can drag exported images from my desktop to a LiveCode stack and get the dragData[“files”]). Is there any way from within Photos to gain access to the file locations for convenient use by LiveCode? David Epstein From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Apr 18 12:48:47 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2022 09:48:47 -0700 Subject: Using LiveCode with Mac Photos App In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: David Epstein wrote: > Is there any way from within Photos to gain access to the file > locations for convenient use by LiveCode? Apple's Photos app stores all the metadata in an SQLite file, no? If so, you may be able to poke around in the DB file directly. If Apple prevents that, you may be able to query it via AppleScript. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From dvglasgow at gmail.com Mon Apr 18 13:09:42 2022 From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David Glasgow) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2022 18:09:42 +0100 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: <9b0e6cd0-219b-8bcd-7089-62cdfd1025e4@fourthworld.com> References: <91D0C81F-5764-43D7-A1DD-5A8DAC8858EA@starfirelighting.com> <9b0e6cd0-219b-8bcd-7089-62cdfd1025e4@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <3ECC1BFA-7D13-4EBF-A2E4-1902146C599C@gmail.com> Sorry for belated response. Easter visitors. The user just initiates the automatic filtering for various keywords. Once completed, the original imported text (field 1) remains in its original form so that the user can click on a line in field 2 (i.e identified as containing a specific word or phrase) and then the text is selected and displayed in field 1 in its original context. That works really well. I’m happy with a medium term option to explore using datagrids, but I am still intrigued that placing the groups containing fields on navigated-from-cards eliminates the delay in transition. Best Wishes, David Glasgow Honorary Professor, Nottingham Trent University Sexual Offences, Crime and Misconduct Research Unit Consultant Forensic & Clinical Psychologist Carlton Glasgow Partnership Director, Child & Family Training, York LinkedIn > On 18 Apr 2022, at 5:42 pm, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > Yes, there are many ways to explore HOW to display data. My question is WHY. > > Or more specifically, "What is the user asked to do with the data?" > > If we solve the display challenge without considering the user task, the user task remains unaddressed. > > But if we craft the UI to support the user task, I suspect the display question will resolve itself. > > Maybe. Or maybe not. We'll find out when David returns to this thread to tell us about the user task. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > > > > Craig Newman wrote: >> I think on the forum a few years ago we played with a gadget that only displayed a small number of lines of a very large dataset. That would perhaps allow a table field to be used without having to learn all about dataGrids. I will try to find that discussion. >> Not that it is not a good idea to at least use the basics of a DG as a standard tool as a matter of course. >> Craig >>> On Apr 17, 2022, at 9:48 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >>> David V Glasgow wrote: >>> > On 16 Apr 2022, at 8:20 pm, Richard Gaskin wrote: >>> >> >>> >> How many is "many many thousands of lines"? 10k? 100k? More? >>> > >>> > Typically 30,000 to 800,000. >>> What is the user asked to do with 800,000 lines of data? >>> That is, does this need to be displayed? >>> >> Is the data displayed in list fields, or must the line wraps be >>> >> calculated? >>> > >>> > The wrapped line field is locked and doesn’t change after import >>> > and is unaffected by the keyword-containing-lines process. I >>> > suppose a good question is are line wraps recalculated on navigation >>> > to the card. >>> I'd guess that the card record is unpacked before rendering, which would include the controls, such as fields, and their contents. >>> -- >>> Richard Gaskin >>> Fourth World Systems > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon Apr 18 13:52:12 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2022 17:52:12 +0000 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: <3ECC1BFA-7D13-4EBF-A2E4-1902146C599C@gmail.com> References: <91D0C81F-5764-43D7-A1DD-5A8DAC8858EA@starfirelighting.com> <9b0e6cd0-219b-8bcd-7089-62cdfd1025e4@fourthworld.com> <3ECC1BFA-7D13-4EBF-A2E4-1902146C599C@gmail.com> Message-ID: <52507466-0098-4D32-AEFA-86B8E4467734@iotecdigital.com> Do you mean you made a group of the fields containing data, then used "Place Group" from the Objects menu on the summary card? If that is what you mean, then it stands to reason that all the work LC has to do in displaying what is now a Background Group on both cards which contains the very voluminous fields, is already done. Bob S > On Apr 18, 2022, at 10:09 , David Glasgow via use-livecode wrote: > > Sorry for belated response. Easter visitors. > > The user just initiates the automatic filtering for various keywords. Once completed, the original imported text (field 1) remains in its original form so that the user can click on a line in field 2 (i.e identified as containing a specific word or phrase) and then the text is selected and displayed in field 1 in its original context. That works really well. > > I’m happy with a medium term option to explore using datagrids, but I am still intrigued that placing the groups containing fields on navigated-from-cards eliminates the delay in transition. > > Best Wishes, > > David Glasgow > Honorary Professor, Nottingham Trent University > Sexual Offences, Crime and Misconduct Research Unit > Consultant Forensic & Clinical Psychologist > Carlton Glasgow Partnership > Director, Child & Family Training, York From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Apr 18 14:02:07 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2022 11:02:07 -0700 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: <3ECC1BFA-7D13-4EBF-A2E4-1902146C599C@gmail.com> References: <3ECC1BFA-7D13-4EBF-A2E4-1902146C599C@gmail.com> Message-ID: <04225b03-dec3-262b-0738-e655e04d0c20@fourthworld.com> David Glasgow wrote: > The user just initiates the automatic filtering for various keywords. What does that mean? What actions do they perform requiring them to review the full list? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From dvglasgow at gmail.com Tue Apr 19 06:38:08 2022 From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David V Glasgow) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2022 11:38:08 +0100 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: <04225b03-dec3-262b-0738-e655e04d0c20@fourthworld.com> References: <3ECC1BFA-7D13-4EBF-A2E4-1902146C599C@gmail.com> <04225b03-dec3-262b-0738-e655e04d0c20@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <1724CA02-7556-46B8-8A74-AFC474E72620@gmail.com> Maybe context would help. I receive digital evidence from police Hi Tech Crime Units, consisting of lists/tables of messages, search histories, web histories, files downloaded, etc etc. These relate to online activities of alleged internet offenders. Some consist of data relating to a few months activity, others may be 10 years or more - so vary hugely in the sheer quantity of data. This is what is imported into the first field. I have established a number of sets of keywords/tags which can be cycled through using ‘filter with’ to find list items which might indicate particular forms of malign motivation of the alleged offender. So, a user clicks button “Filter with X keywords” looking for, for example, coercive/aggressive tags. All ‘filtered with' lines containing selected tags appear in the second scrolling field. Sometimes nothing much will be found, but sometimes this field may become 50 to 74% the size of the field containing the original imported data. This (second) field can be scrolled and eyeballed until something of forensic significance is spotted. Clicking on that line scrolls the first field to display and highlight the line in its original context (i.e showing preceding and following lines). With respect to Bob’s observation about the work to display a background group being 'already done’ if the navigated-to card contains the background group containing the field, that is pretty much what I assumed is happening. The intriguing question is why the work necessarily is ‘undone’ when navigating to any card not containing the group. Does it consume such significant resources the default is to clear it? It would be nice to be able choose to preserve or cache the work if that has such a significant impact on performance as in this case. Best Wishes, David Glasgow > On 18 Apr 2022, at 7:02 pm, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > David Glasgow wrote: > > > The user just initiates the automatic filtering for various keywords. > > What does that mean? What actions do they perform requiring them to review the full list? > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From craig at starfirelighting.com Tue Apr 19 10:47:11 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2022 10:47:11 -0400 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: <1724CA02-7556-46B8-8A74-AFC474E72620@gmail.com> References: <3ECC1BFA-7D13-4EBF-A2E4-1902146C599C@gmail.com> <04225b03-dec3-262b-0738-e655e04d0c20@fourthworld.com> <1724CA02-7556-46B8-8A74-AFC474E72620@gmail.com> Message-ID: <9A208CEA-D52E-4E4E-90CC-0BA1A3699ADF@starfirelighting.com> Dave. I played around a bit with a field on a card that has 100,000 lines of text and an overall length of 5 Meg. There is not question that such a well-packed field is sluggish in several ways. Just try to make it wider using the pointer tool. But a simple mouseUp handler in the field takes the value of the clickLine and loads it into a field on a different card. The process is instantaneous. What does your setup have that mine does not, so that you are seeing intolerable delays? Craig > On Apr 19, 2022, at 6:38 AM, David V Glasgow via use-livecode wrote: > > Maybe context would help. I receive digital evidence from police Hi Tech Crime Units, consisting of lists/tables of messages, search histories, web histories, files downloaded, etc etc. These relate to online activities of alleged internet offenders. Some consist of data relating to a few months activity, others may be 10 years or more - so vary hugely in the sheer quantity of data. This is what is imported into the first field. > > I have established a number of sets of keywords/tags which can be cycled through using ‘filter with’ to find list items which might indicate particular forms of malign motivation of the alleged offender. So, a user clicks button “Filter with X keywords” looking for, for example, coercive/aggressive tags. > > All ‘filtered with' lines containing selected tags appear in the second scrolling field. Sometimes nothing much will be found, but sometimes this field may become 50 to 74% the size of the field containing the original imported data. This (second) field can be scrolled and eyeballed until something of forensic significance is spotted. Clicking on that line scrolls the first field to display and highlight the line in its original context (i.e showing preceding and following lines). > > With respect to Bob’s observation about the work to display a background group being 'already done’ if the navigated-to card contains the background group containing the field, that is pretty much what I assumed is happening. The intriguing question is why the work necessarily is ‘undone’ when navigating to any card not containing the group. Does it consume such significant resources the default is to clear it? It would be nice to be able choose to preserve or cache the work if that has such a significant impact on performance as in this case. > > Best Wishes, > > David Glasgow > > >> On 18 Apr 2022, at 7:02 pm, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >> >> David Glasgow wrote: >> >>> The user just initiates the automatic filtering for various keywords. >> >> What does that mean? What actions do they perform requiring them to review the full list? >> >> -- >> Richard Gaskin >> Fourth World Systems >> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web >> ____________________________________________________________________ >> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From craig at starfirelighting.com Tue Apr 19 10:50:22 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2022 10:50:22 -0400 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: <9A208CEA-D52E-4E4E-90CC-0BA1A3699ADF@starfirelighting.com> References: <3ECC1BFA-7D13-4EBF-A2E4-1902146C599C@gmail.com> <04225b03-dec3-262b-0738-e655e04d0c20@fourthworld.com> <1724CA02-7556-46B8-8A74-AFC474E72620@gmail.com> <9A208CEA-D52E-4E4E-90CC-0BA1A3699ADF@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: I do see that navigating BACK to the card with the packed field takes almost two seconds. Craig > On Apr 19, 2022, at 10:47 AM, Craig Newman wrote: > > Dave. > > I played around a bit with a field on a card that has 100,000 lines of text and an overall length of 5 Meg. There is not question that such a well-packed field is sluggish in several ways. Just try to make it wider using the pointer tool. > > But a simple mouseUp handler in the field takes the value of the clickLine and loads it into a field on a different card. The process is instantaneous. What does your setup have that mine does not, so that you are seeing intolerable delays? > > Craig > >> On Apr 19, 2022, at 6:38 AM, David V Glasgow via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Maybe context would help. I receive digital evidence from police Hi Tech Crime Units, consisting of lists/tables of messages, search histories, web histories, files downloaded, etc etc. These relate to online activities of alleged internet offenders. Some consist of data relating to a few months activity, others may be 10 years or more - so vary hugely in the sheer quantity of data. This is what is imported into the first field. >> >> I have established a number of sets of keywords/tags which can be cycled through using ‘filter with’ to find list items which might indicate particular forms of malign motivation of the alleged offender. So, a user clicks button “Filter with X keywords” looking for, for example, coercive/aggressive tags. >> >> All ‘filtered with' lines containing selected tags appear in the second scrolling field. Sometimes nothing much will be found, but sometimes this field may become 50 to 74% the size of the field containing the original imported data. This (second) field can be scrolled and eyeballed until something of forensic significance is spotted. Clicking on that line scrolls the first field to display and highlight the line in its original context (i.e showing preceding and following lines). >> >> With respect to Bob’s observation about the work to display a background group being 'already done’ if the navigated-to card contains the background group containing the field, that is pretty much what I assumed is happening. The intriguing question is why the work necessarily is ‘undone’ when navigating to any card not containing the group. Does it consume such significant resources the default is to clear it? It would be nice to be able choose to preserve or cache the work if that has such a significant impact on performance as in this case. >> >> Best Wishes, >> >> David Glasgow >> >> >>> On 18 Apr 2022, at 7:02 pm, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> David Glasgow wrote: >>> >>>> The user just initiates the automatic filtering for various keywords. >>> >>> What does that mean? What actions do they perform requiring them to review the full list? >>> >>> -- >>> Richard Gaskin >>> Fourth World Systems >>> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web >>> ____________________________________________________________________ >>> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dvglasgow at gmail.com Tue Apr 19 11:53:21 2022 From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David V Glasgow) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2022 16:53:21 +0100 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: References: <3ECC1BFA-7D13-4EBF-A2E4-1902146C599C@gmail.com> <04225b03-dec3-262b-0738-e655e04d0c20@fourthworld.com> <1724CA02-7556-46B8-8A74-AFC474E72620@gmail.com> <9A208CEA-D52E-4E4E-90CC-0BA1A3699ADF@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: That is exactly it, Craig! Text processing and field responsivity on the card containing the fields are as fast as I could hope. It is simply navigating back to the card containing the fields that can take several seconds, depending on how much text is in the fields. The workaround is to have invisible groups containing the field(s) placed on the card you are navigating from. I assume that the text has to be shared, but I haven’t actually tested that. Best Wishes, David Glasgow > On 19 Apr 2022, at 3:50 pm, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: > > I do see that navigating BACK to the card with the packed field takes almost two seconds. > > Craig From craig at starfirelighting.com Tue Apr 19 13:13:18 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2022 13:13:18 -0400 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: References: <3ECC1BFA-7D13-4EBF-A2E4-1902146C599C@gmail.com> <04225b03-dec3-262b-0738-e655e04d0c20@fourthworld.com> <1724CA02-7556-46B8-8A74-AFC474E72620@gmail.com> <9A208CEA-D52E-4E4E-90CC-0BA1A3699ADF@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: <18DF99F8-6BC8-46A7-9E75-00080CC226CB@starfirelighting.com> David. OK. So why not rethink the structure overall. I hate thinking at all, so rethinking is abhorrent, but oftentimes saves much grief. I wish I was on the forum, but here goes. I made a button that: - gets the value of the clickLine as before - hides the big field - loads that information into another field on the same card. Another button shows the big field again All instantaneous. Craig > On Apr 19, 2022, at 11:53 AM, David V Glasgow via use-livecode wrote: > > That is exactly it, Craig! Text processing and field responsivity on the card containing the fields are as fast as I could hope. > > It is simply navigating back to the card containing the fields that can take several seconds, depending on how much text is in the fields. The workaround is to have invisible groups containing the field(s) placed on the card you are navigating from. I assume that the text has to be shared, but I haven’t actually tested that. > > Best Wishes, > > David Glasgow > > >> On 19 Apr 2022, at 3:50 pm, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: >> >> I do see that navigating BACK to the card with the packed field takes almost two seconds. >> >> Craig > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From craig at starfirelighting.com Tue Apr 19 13:48:41 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2022 13:48:41 -0400 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: <18DF99F8-6BC8-46A7-9E75-00080CC226CB@starfirelighting.com> References: <3ECC1BFA-7D13-4EBF-A2E4-1902146C599C@gmail.com> <04225b03-dec3-262b-0738-e655e04d0c20@fourthworld.com> <1724CA02-7556-46B8-8A74-AFC474E72620@gmail.com> <9A208CEA-D52E-4E4E-90CC-0BA1A3699ADF@starfirelighting.com> <18DF99F8-6BC8-46A7-9E75-00080CC226CB@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: David, Likely does not matter, but I misspoke. A mouseUp handler in the large locked field: - gets the value of the clickLine - hides the large field (itself) - shows a secondary field - loads information in that field. Clicking on the secondary field does the reverse in terms of showing/hiding.. All this is basic stuff, but the time delay goes away. So navigating to other cards can be simulated by extracting and loading data on controls on the same card. The old HC “Rolodex" paradigm was attractive and comforting, and still has its uses. But HC could not support fields of greater than 32K, so this delay issue never came up. Also, HC could easily support many more cards than LC can. Craig > On Apr 19, 2022, at 1:13 PM, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: > > David. > > OK. So why not rethink the structure overall. I hate thinking at all, so rethinking is abhorrent, but oftentimes saves much grief. > > I wish I was on the forum, but here goes. > > I made a button that: > > - gets the value of the clickLine as before > - hides the big field > - loads that information into another field on the same card. > > Another button shows the big field again > > All instantaneous. > > Craig > >> On Apr 19, 2022, at 11:53 AM, David V Glasgow via use-livecode wrote: >> >> That is exactly it, Craig! Text processing and field responsivity on the card containing the fields are as fast as I could hope. >> >> It is simply navigating back to the card containing the fields that can take several seconds, depending on how much text is in the fields. The workaround is to have invisible groups containing the field(s) placed on the card you are navigating from. I assume that the text has to be shared, but I haven’t actually tested that. >> >> Best Wishes, >> >> David Glasgow >> >> >>> On 19 Apr 2022, at 3:50 pm, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> I do see that navigating BACK to the card with the packed field takes almost two seconds. >>> >>> Craig >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed Apr 20 08:56:00 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2022 08:56:00 -0400 Subject: Pixel 5 In-Reply-To: <18036129870.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <359a6dca-ef11-76d1-7307-08737cad86eb@hyperactivesw.com> <09364CD0-144A-4569-80C9-ABE0B1F55508@gmail.com> <18036129870.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: I am on my second droid phone, and I agree, I probably could never go back - but, for corporate app deployment and deployment, ios is happier place. On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 1:51 AM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > You don't know what you're missing. :) There's so little freedom over on > the other side. I could never go back. > > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > On April 16, 2022 10:07:48 PM doc hawk via use-livecode > wrote: > > > For some reason, I feel a sudden urge to sprinkle my doorstep with Holy > > Water . . . > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Apr 20 15:43:44 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2022 12:43:44 -0700 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: <1724CA02-7556-46B8-8A74-AFC474E72620@gmail.com> References: <1724CA02-7556-46B8-8A74-AFC474E72620@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8aeca18a-0154-f00d-98ad-0b96005f70e6@fourthworld.com> Thank you, David. That does indeed help a lot. Very interesting task, actually. Very glad to have read that. In most workflows there's little need to display such long lists for users to wade through. But in your case it's clear that the nature of the work requires laborious review of details, so even a super-long list is not a design problem at all, but arguably essential. That said, if I understand this correctly, only the subset of records that first match the search criteria will need to be reviewed - is that correct? If it is, you can omit the display of the first list, enjoying not only ending the need to have that field's rendering eat up time, but also the speed boost from handling that data in a variable. But the results list does need to be displayed. And since that list may be long, I concur with those who have recommended the DataGrid as a solution. Sure, it takes a little setup, but the payoff is that it will only render what can be viewed on screen at any given time, which should give you the smooth card-to-card speed you're looking for. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems David V Glasgow wrote: > Maybe context would help. I receive digital evidence from police Hi Tech Crime Units, consisting of lists/tables of messages, search histories, web histories, files downloaded, etc etc. These relate to online activities of alleged internet offenders. Some consist of data relating to a few months activity, others may be 10 years or more - so vary hugely in the sheer quantity of data. This is what is imported into the first field. > > I have established a number of sets of keywords/tags which can be cycled through using filter with to find list items which might indicate particular forms of malign motivation of the alleged offender. So, a user clicks button Filter with X keywords looking for, for example, coercive/aggressive tags. > > All filtered with' lines containing selected tags appear in the second scrolling field. Sometimes nothing much will be found, but sometimes this field may become 50 to 74% the size of the field containing the original imported data. This (second) field can be scrolled and eyeballed until something of forensic significance is spotted. Clicking on that line scrolls the first field to display and highlight the line in its original context (i.e showing preceding and following lines). > > With respect to Bobs observation about the work to display a background group being 'already done if the navigated-to card contains the background group containing the field, that is pretty much what I assumed is happening. The intriguing question is why the work necessarily is undone when navigating to any card not containing the group. Does it consume such significant resources the default is to clear it? It would be nice to be able choose to preserve or cache the work if that has such a significant impact on performance as in this case. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Apr 20 17:58:47 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2022 14:58:47 -0700 Subject: Pixel 5 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8bc50292-b596-aeaa-d56f-46c400f8f18c@fourthworld.com> Mike Kerner wrote: > I am on my second droid phone, and I agree, I probably could never > go back - but, for corporate app deployment and deployment, ios is > happier place. What have I been missing? Last time I did native mobile Apple was still making devs jump through hoops just to install apps that aren't even going into their app store. On Android we just turn off the sideloading protection, install, and turn it back on again - no handholding/gatekeeping from the OS provider needed, no contact with them needed at all. All this time I thought Apple's message for orgs making apps for internal use was to use Android. I sometimes do medical apps, where iOS is strongly represented. I'd love it if Apple has a way to beat Android for ease of deployment. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems From irog at mac.com Wed Apr 20 18:46:14 2022 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2022 15:46:14 -0700 Subject: Splash Method of Saving Data Message-ID: <4FB585A7-704A-4D64-8FDA-4112E2BF420F@mac.com> I am so sorry for bring this up again, but I just can’t find relevant information. In the good ol days one could build Mac, Windows and Unix standalones apps using the splash screen method to open substacks thereby saving data in the substacks. This Doesn’t seem to work anymore! I see there is a lesson for saving Custom Properties using this method but I need to save other data like new graphics in the substack. Help please… Thanks, Roger From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Apr 20 19:32:52 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2022 18:32:52 -0500 Subject: Pixel 5 In-Reply-To: <8bc50292-b596-aeaa-d56f-46c400f8f18c@fourthworld.com> References: <8bc50292-b596-aeaa-d56f-46c400f8f18c@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On 4/20/22 4:58 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > All this time I thought Apple's message for orgs making apps for internal use was to use > Android. I sometimes do medical apps, where iOS is strongly represented. I'd love it if Apple > has a way to beat Android for ease of deployment. The best you can do is to use Apple's corporate distribution. It allows up to a certain number of employees who can install your app in-house. The license is expensive. For people like us, no dice. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From irog at mac.com Wed Apr 20 19:49:28 2022 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2022 16:49:28 -0700 Subject: Splash Method of Saving Data In-Reply-To: <4FB585A7-704A-4D64-8FDA-4112E2BF420F@mac.com> References: <4FB585A7-704A-4D64-8FDA-4112E2BF420F@mac.com> Message-ID: <532707BC-6AF7-46C4-8AD7-700E90E4D284@mac.com> Never mind, I think I found my mistake. Roger > On Apr 20, 2022, at 3:46 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: > > I am so sorry for bring this up again, but I just can’t find relevant information. In the good ol days one could build Mac, Windows and Unix standalones apps using the splash screen method to open substacks thereby saving data in the substacks. This Doesn’t seem to work anymore! I see there is a lesson for saving Custom Properties using this method but I need to save other data like new graphics in the substack. Help please… > > Thanks, > > Roger > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jiml at netrin.com Wed Apr 20 21:23:24 2022 From: jiml at netrin.com (Jim Lambert) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2022 18:23:24 -0700 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > DavidG wrote: > That is exactly it, Craig! Text processing and field responsivity on the card containing the fields are as fast as I could hope. > > It is simply navigating back to the card containing the fields that can take several seconds, depending on how much text is in the fields. The workaround is to have invisible groups containing the field(s) placed on the card you are navigating from. Here's another possibility. Instead of using multiple cards, do the whole interface on a single card. Have different groups on that single card, each of which does the job of one of the eliminated cards. In that way you NEVER NAVIGATE away from your data fields. They are simple present in a now hidden group. For example, let's say your stack currently has 5 cards. Card #1 is the card with the two data fields you describe. Put those fields and any other interface elements currently on that card into Group #1 of the card. Put the contents of cards 2 thru 5 into groups #2 thru 5 on card #1. Hide and show groups where you previously navigated between cards. Jim Lambert From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au Wed Apr 20 23:29:45 2022 From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2022 03:29:45 +0000 Subject: Pixel 5 In-Reply-To: <8bc50292-b596-aeaa-d56f-46c400f8f18c@fourthworld.com> References: <8bc50292-b596-aeaa-d56f-46c400f8f18c@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: I haven’t done any iOS apps for a little while but when I was - using an enterprise developer license - getting iOS apps onto our users’ (students and staff) phones was easy as. The hardest thing was finding a server to host the files (ipa, plist etc.) on. Terry.. From: use-livecode on behalf of Richard Gaskin via use-livecode Date: Thursday, 21 April 2022 at 8:00 am To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Cc: Richard Gaskin Subject: Re: Pixel 5 Mike Kerner wrote: > I am on my second droid phone, and I agree, I probably could never > go back - but, for corporate app deployment and deployment, ios is > happier place. What have I been missing? Last time I did native mobile Apple was still making devs jump through hoops just to install apps that aren't even going into their app store. On Android we just turn off the sideloading protection, install, and turn it back on again - no handholding/gatekeeping from the OS provider needed, no contact with them needed at all. All this time I thought Apple's message for orgs making apps for internal use was to use Android. I sometimes do medical apps, where iOS is strongly represented. I'd love it if Apple has a way to beat Android for ease of deployment. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dvglasgow at gmail.com Thu Apr 21 07:50:17 2022 From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David V Glasgow) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2022 12:50:17 +0100 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <04EA7145-B760-4E78-9BDC-FAB3BEE11ACC@gmail.com> Thanks to all who responded on this. I will definitely take a look at Datagrids as a possible solution. Both Phil and Jim suggested avoiding navigation completely …. which I will also investigate. Cheers David G > On 21 Apr 2022, at 2:23 am, Jim Lambert via use-livecode wrote: > >> DavidG wrote: >> That is exactly it, Craig! Text processing and field responsivity on the card containing the fields are as fast as I could hope. >> >> It is simply navigating back to the card containing the fields that can take several seconds, depending on how much text is in the fields. The workaround is to have invisible groups containing the field(s) placed on the card you are navigating from. > > Here's another possibility. > Instead of using multiple cards, do the whole interface on a single card. > Have different groups on that single card, each of which does the job of one of the eliminated cards. > In that way you NEVER NAVIGATE away from your data fields. They are simple present in a now hidden group. > > For example, let's say your stack currently has 5 cards. > Card #1 is the card with the two data fields you describe. > Put those fields and any other interface elements currently on that card into Group #1 of the card. > Put the contents of cards 2 thru 5 into groups #2 thru 5 on card #1. > Hide and show groups where you previously navigated between cards. > > Jim Lambert > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Apr 21 11:22:11 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2022 15:22:11 +0000 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick In-Reply-To: <04EA7145-B760-4E78-9BDC-FAB3BEE11ACC@gmail.com> References: <04EA7145-B760-4E78-9BDC-FAB3BEE11ACC@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0491A05F-84A2-435A-A925-D34A0FD3771D@iotecdigital.com> Let me know off list if you want to have a look at the handlers I have written for getting data from a datagrid array into a memory database and back again so your queries can be more efficient. Bob S > On Apr 21, 2022, at 04:50 , David V Glasgow via use-livecode wrote: > > > Thanks to all who responded on this. I will definitely take a look at Datagrids as a possible solution. Both Phil and Jim suggested avoiding navigation completely …. which I will also investigate. > > Cheers > > David G > >> On 21 Apr 2022, at 2:23 am, Jim Lambert via use-livecode wrote: >> >>> DavidG wrote: >>> That is exactly it, Craig! Text processing and field responsivity on the card containing the fields are as fast as I could hope. >>> >>> It is simply navigating back to the card containing the fields that can take several seconds, depending on how much text is in the fields. The workaround is to have invisible groups containing the field(s) placed on the card you are navigating from. >> >> Here's another possibility. >> Instead of using multiple cards, do the whole interface on a single card. >> Have different groups on that single card, each of which does the job of one of the eliminated cards. >> In that way you NEVER NAVIGATE away from your data fields. They are simple present in a now hidden group. >> >> For example, let's say your stack currently has 5 cards. >> Card #1 is the card with the two data fields you describe. >> Put those fields and any other interface elements currently on that card into Group #1 of the card. >> Put the contents of cards 2 thru 5 into groups #2 thru 5 on card #1. >> Hide and show groups where you previously navigated between cards. >> >> Jim Lambert >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Thu Apr 21 11:55:31 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2022 11:55:31 -0400 Subject: optionKeyDown message broken Message-ID: <76a263e1-96b4-cbdf-3f64-bf87269182ac@researchware.com> I am finding problems with the optionKeyDown handler on both Windows (where it's the ALT key) and macOS (OPTION key). This is in Livecode 9.6.7 STABLE under macOS Mojave and Windows 10 In a new stack, place the following in the card script: on optionKeyDown pKeyName   if platform() = "MacOS" then     put numToChar(charToNum(pKeyName)-128) into tKey1 -- original sample from Dictionary     put numToCodePoint(codepointToNum(pKeyName)-128) into tKey2 -- trying using non-deprecated functions     answer pKeyName,tKey1,tKey2   else -- windows     answer pKeyName   end if end optionKeyDown On macOS, the LC 9.6.7 Dictionary shows the need to strip the "high" bit off the character to get the letter of the key pressed, for example, OPTION-F produces The above script on macOS produces for OPTION-F the following , D, Where as what you want for either tKey1 or tKey2 to be "F" the key pressed with OPTION-F I think this is a case where the Dictionary entry for optionKeyDown (for macOS) needs to be updated with a formula that works since LC was updated to Unicode with version 7 "High" ASCII macOS characters are now UNicode and not the same character codes. But Wait. Windows is even worse This code on Windows does not produce a letter of any sort. It produces  As soon as you press the ALT key, before you can even press ALT-F, this script displays 65513 in the answer dialog. This, I believe is the RAW key code for the ALT key! In other words, the optionKeyDown message is not sending the key pressed as a letter/character as the dictionary says and the parameter passed to the optionKeyDown message is the code for the ALT key itself (which makes no sense). Could enough folks on this list conform both the macOS and Windows errors, so I can log a bug with LiveCode? I am not looking for work-around (I can do that if I have to), just for confirmation that these are bugs. The macOS can be resolved by a better method for mapping macOS "high-ASCII" characters, now mapped to Unicode in LC, back to the ASCII key characters pressed. The Windows may not have a work-around as, according to the dictionary, keyDown/keyUp messages are not passed in Control or Alt keys are down, the commandKeyDown, optionKetDown messages are sent instead, so you can using a keyDown handler and check for the altKey() = "down" condition. Perhaps rawKeyDown... From craig at starfirelighting.com Thu Apr 21 13:04:46 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2022 13:04:46 -0400 Subject: optionKeyDown message broken In-Reply-To: <76a263e1-96b4-cbdf-3f64-bf87269182ac@researchware.com> References: <76a263e1-96b4-cbdf-3f64-bf87269182ac@researchware.com> Message-ID: Have not played with your handler, but why not just: on rawKeyDown tKey if the optionkey is down then answer numToChar(tkey) end rawKeyDown Craig > On Apr 21, 2022, at 11:55 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > > on optionKeyDown pKeyName > if platform() = "MacOS" then > put numToChar(charToNum(pKeyName)-128) into tKey1 -- original sample from Dictionary > put numToCodePoint(codepointToNum(pKeyName)-128) into tKey2 -- trying using non-deprecated functions > answer pKeyName,tKey1,tKey2 > else -- windows > answer pKeyName > end if > end optionKeyDown From paul at researchware.com Thu Apr 21 14:16:53 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2022 14:16:53 -0400 Subject: optionKeyDown message broken In-Reply-To: References: <76a263e1-96b4-cbdf-3f64-bf87269182ac@researchware.com> Message-ID: <0a4055d6-145f-2317-1943-fd7c85ad080f@researchware.com> Yes, there are work-arounds. My post was about confirming the bug so I can report it to Livecode. In this case, we have a shipping application in which the optionKeyDown handler USED to work that now a customer has (correctly) reported it broken. If everyone just codes work-arounds and bugs are never reported, then the bugs will never get fixed. Sorry, a long frustrating day. On 4/21/2022 1:04 PM, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: > Have not played with your handler, but why not just: > > on rawKeyDown tKey > > if the optionkey is down then answer numToChar(tkey) > > end rawKeyDown > > > Craig > >> On Apr 21, 2022, at 11:55 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: >> >> on optionKeyDown pKeyName >> if platform() = "MacOS" then >> put numToChar(charToNum(pKeyName)-128) into tKey1 -- original sample from Dictionary >> put numToCodePoint(codepointToNum(pKeyName)-128) into tKey2 -- trying using non-deprecated functions >> answer pKeyName,tKey1,tKey2 >> else -- windows >> answer pKeyName >> end if >> end optionKeyDown > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Apr 21 15:27:40 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2022 14:27:40 -0500 Subject: optionKeyDown message broken In-Reply-To: <76a263e1-96b4-cbdf-3f64-bf87269182ac@researchware.com> References: <76a263e1-96b4-cbdf-3f64-bf87269182ac@researchware.com> Message-ID: <578444fa-b460-ef07-4e28-5130d692dbc8@hyperactivesw.com> On 4/21/22 10:55 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > In a new stack, place the following in the card script: > > on optionKeyDown pKeyName >   if platform() = "MacOS" then >     put numToChar(charToNum(pKeyName)-128) into tKey1 -- original sample from Dictionary >     put numToCodePoint(codepointToNum(pKeyName)-128) into tKey2 -- trying using non-deprecated > functions >     answer pKeyName,tKey1,tKey2 >   else -- windows >     answer pKeyName >   end if > end optionKeyDown The equivalent new functions for numToChar and charToNum is numToNativeChar and nativeCharToNum. Those return the same values as the originals. However, I'm still getting the wrong result. I can subtract 94 to get lower-case "f" but that isn't consistent; the amount to subtract varies depending on the value of pKeyName. So there's some trick I'm missing. Tested on Mac. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From paul at researchware.com Thu Apr 21 16:19:50 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2022 16:19:50 -0400 Subject: optionKeyDown message broken In-Reply-To: <578444fa-b460-ef07-4e28-5130d692dbc8@hyperactivesw.com> References: <76a263e1-96b4-cbdf-3f64-bf87269182ac@researchware.com> <578444fa-b460-ef07-4e28-5130d692dbc8@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <1c71a1a7-b4af-53af-d28f-df2e60fc17e3@researchware.com> On 4/21/2022 3:27 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > On 4/21/22 10:55 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: >> In a new stack, place the following in the card script: >> >> on optionKeyDown pKeyName >>    if platform() = "MacOS" then >>      put numToChar(charToNum(pKeyName)-128) into tKey1 -- original >> sample from Dictionary >>      put numToCodePoint(codepointToNum(pKeyName)-128) into tKey2 -- >> trying using non-deprecated functions >>      answer pKeyName,tKey1,tKey2 >>    else -- windows >>      answer pKeyName >>    end if >> end optionKeyDown > > The equivalent new functions for numToChar and charToNum is > numToNativeChar and nativeCharToNum. Those return the same values as > the originals. However, I'm still getting the wrong result. I can > subtract 94 to get lower-case "f" but that isn't consistent; the > amount to subtract varies depending on the value of pKeyName. So > there's some trick I'm missing. > > Tested on Mac. > Thank you for verifying macOS! I did not know about numToNativeChar and nativeCharToNum so thanks for that also. However, after looking at a decimal table of MacRoman, the suggested formula to remove the "high-bit" in the Dictionary will NEVER work no matter what functions are used. The high-ASCII characters of MAcROman (bytes 128 to 255) do not correspond to any alphabetical range. In other words, the numerical equivalent of OPTION-A through OPTION-Z is not in sequential order. You would either have to code it as: on optionDownKey pKey   if platform() = "MacOS" then     if pKey = "" then put "f" in tKey -- MacRoman byte 196 (OPTION-F is pressed)     if pKey = "" then put "x" in tKey -- MacRoman byte 197 (is NOT OPTION-G (expected if in alphabetical order and you could just do math to get the ASCII key character), but is OPTION-X) In my opinion, this makes the optionKeyDown handler on macOS next to useless and it is far more intuitive from a develop and code documentation perspective if the letter of the key pressed in conjunction with the OPTOPN key was returned. And, of course, you can work around this with a rawKeyDown or rawKeyUp handler, but I would consider the state of optionKeyDown on macOS defective. From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Apr 21 16:58:58 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2022 20:58:58 +0000 Subject: :memory: heads up Message-ID: <49B6665E-EE39-4A68-B709-CDBD981FC8DF@iotecdigital.com> Hi all. I just wanted to alert anyone working with memory databases. Normally when you call revOpenDatabase("sqLite", filename) it will open the sqLite database with all the tables and data intact. HOWEVER... If you do this with ":memory:" instead of a filename then EACH TIME you call revOpenDatabase() it will create a NEW MEMORY DATABASE! I had no idea this was possible. I don't see anything in the dictionary about it. In fact, :memory: does not even show up in the dictionary! LOL! I had to update my arrayToSQLite handler with an additional parameter, pDBID, and I only call revOpenDatabase() if that parameter is empty. Here is an updated version in case anyone is using it (however unlikely) : /* The following function will attempt to open a database passed in pDBFile, which should be the full path to an sqLite database file, or else a memory database. It will then *attempt* to drop the table passed in pDBName. It will leave other tables intact, so tables can be added and dropped as needed by calling this function. pArrayDataA must be a 2 dimensional numbered array, such as the kind used by datagrids. Nested arrays are not supported. provide pDBID if there is already a memory database open. */ FUNCTION arrayToSQLite pArrayDataA, pDBFile, pDBName, pDBID put the keys of pArrayDataA into tArrayKeys sort tArrayKeys numeric ascending IF pDBFile is empty THEN put ":memory:" into pDBFile IF pDBName is empty THEN put "arraydata" into pDBName TRY if pDBID is empty then \ put revOpenDatabase("sqlite", pDBFile) into pDBID IF "Error" is in pDBID THEN return empty END IF put "drop table " & pDBName into tDropSQL revExecuteSQL pDBID, tDropSQL put the result into tResult CATCH tError answer tError IF the environment is "development" THEN exit to top ELSE quit END TRY -- create the table put "create table" && quote & pDBName & quote \ & cr into tCreateCommand put "(" & quote & "recordid" & quote && "NUMERIC PRIMARY KEY UNIQUE, " \ & cr AFTER tCreateCommand put the keys of pArrayDataA [1] into tRecordKeyList REPEAT for each line tRecordKey in tRecordKeyList if pArrayDataA [1] [tRecordKey] is an array then put "BLOB" into tColumnType else put VARCHAR into tColumnType end if put quote & tRecordKey & quote && tColumnType & "," && cr AFTER tCreateCommand END REPEAT delete char -3 to -1 of tCreateCommand put ")" AFTER tCreateCommand TRY revExecuteSQL pDBID, tCreateCommand put the result into tResult IF tResult is not 0 THEN breakpoint CATCH tError breakpoint END TRY put 1 into tRecordCounter put "recordid" & cr & tRecordKeyList into tColumns repeat with i = 1 to the number of lines of tColumns put ":" & i into item i of tColumnList end repeat put "(" & tColumnList & ")" into tColumnList -- insert data REPEAT for each line tKey in tArrayKeys put 1 into tColumnCounter put pArrayDataA [tKey] into tRecordDataA put tRecordCounter into tQueryDataA [1] REPEAT for each line tRecordKey in tRecordKeyList add 1 to tColumnCounter if tRecordDataA [tRecordKey] is an array then put arrayEncode(tRecordDataA [tRecordKey]) into tValue else put tRecordDataA [tRecordKey] into tValue end if put tValue into tQueryDataA [tColumnCounter] END REPEAT put "insert into" && pDBName && "VALUES" && tColumnList into tInsertSQL TRY revExecuteSQL pDBID, tInsertSQL, "tQueryDataA" put the result into tResult if the result is not a number then breakpoint CATCH tError breakpoint END TRY add 1 to tRecordCounter END REPEAT return pDBID END arrayToSQLite From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Apr 21 22:52:02 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2022 02:52:02 +0000 Subject: Advantages of Memory based sqLite databases Message-ID: <79D69774-CFDE-49DB-8D1B-579EBC313720@iotecdigital.com> Hi all. Just an exercise in semi-futility here. I was curious about the actual difference in performance between querying a memory based sqLite database, as opposed to querying a mySQL database over a slow (iPhone hotspot) connection. I expected it to be significant, but HOW significant I had no idea. Querying for one record produced a performance ratio of 2600 to 1. Some will say, "Of course! What did you expect?" That is just the point. Many people assume repeated queries of an SQL database over a network to be tolerable, even if the connection is remote. But what if your application needs to make repeated queries? At some point, the overhead of repeated queries will exceed that of querying for all or a subset of the data once, storing it in a memory database, then performing your repeated queries on the memory database instead. I will test this over a LAN connection when I get into work tomorrow, but I expect it to be, if not AS significant, certainly more that one would expect. Just food for thought. Bob S From dochawk at gmail.com Thu Apr 21 23:03:02 2022 From: dochawk at gmail.com (doc hawk) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2022 20:03:02 -0700 Subject: Advantages of Memory based sqLite databases In-Reply-To: <79D69774-CFDE-49DB-8D1B-579EBC313720@iotecdigital.com> References: <79D69774-CFDE-49DB-8D1B-579EBC313720@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: The difference between :memory: and the local hard disk is, in itself, stunning. I initially set up with mysql, and (iirc) disk sqlite. Whether it’s mysql or livecode’s fault, it isn’t (wans’t?) possible to to do a compound transaction to a mysql server. So when I opened a “file” (a couple of tables per debtor for my software), it took *minutes* on a remote server to do what took a couple of seconds for a local sqlite file. And an in-memory database was instantaneous. If you need remote, there is a very many to one difference between Postgres (which can handle a transaction of several hundred queries at once) and mysql (which requires several hundred queries in sequence, with full latency applied to each one). And another huge boost for going to in-memory sqlite. (Don’t believe the bit about simultaneous access to sqlite files, it doesn’t quite work!). So I settled on a remote Postgres, in which I stored the commands to update the in-memory sqlite. The catch, of course, is that livecode never implemented the encrypted connection that Postgres supports out off the box. If I was going to continue, I’d probably go to a local Postgres server on each machine with REPLICATE, and stay with in-memory sqlite—but barring any surprises, I’ll just retire instead. From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Apr 21 23:25:22 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2022 03:25:22 +0000 Subject: Advantages of Memory based sqLite databases In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <909887BA-8F4E-4E85-9612-CE99F56530DB@iotecdigital.com> I made a client server proof of concept which encrypted messages before sending and decrypted them on the other end. The upshot was that I can send an encrypted query string from the client to the server, the server which handles the database connection stuff performs the query, then returns the data as an encoded array, also encrypted of course. It worked a peach. It can be used for anything. Sending Files to a remote server for example. It uses simple sockets for the connection, and I use a unique method for poisoning the payload so it cannot be cracked without having the poison pill, or the antidote as it were. And if you have that, I am likely dead. Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 21, 2022, at 20:04, doc hawk via use-livecode wrote: > > The difference between :memory: and the local hard disk is, in itself, stunning. > > I initially set up with mysql, and (iirc) disk sqlite. > > Whether it’s mysql or livecode’s fault, it isn’t (wans’t?) possible to to do a compound transaction to a mysql server. > > So when I opened a “file” (a couple of tables per debtor for my software), it took *minutes* on a remote server to do what took a couple of seconds for a local sqlite file. > > And an in-memory database was instantaneous. > > If you need remote, there is a very many to one difference between Postgres (which can handle a transaction of several hundred queries at once) and mysql (which requires several hundred queries in sequence, with full latency applied to each one). > > And another huge boost for going to in-memory sqlite. (Don’t believe the bit about simultaneous access to sqlite files, it doesn’t quite work!). > > So I settled on a remote Postgres, in which I stored the commands to update the in-memory sqlite. > > The catch, of course, is that livecode never implemented the encrypted connection that Postgres supports out off the box. > > If I was going to continue, I’d probably go to a local Postgres server on each machine with REPLICATE, and stay with in-memory sqlite—but barring any surprises, I’ll just retire instead. > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Apr 22 11:07:52 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2022 15:07:52 +0000 Subject: Advantages of Memory based sqLite databases In-Reply-To: <79D69774-CFDE-49DB-8D1B-579EBC313720@iotecdigital.com> References: <79D69774-CFDE-49DB-8D1B-579EBC313720@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: So I tested this when I got in the shop this morning. The memory database is roughly 450:1 over an sqLite database on the LAN. That is incredibly significant, if the goal is to start with a certain dataset, then query it over and over. Bob S > On Apr 21, 2022, at 19:52 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi all. > > Just an exercise in semi-futility here. I was curious about the actual difference in performance between querying a memory based sqLite database, as opposed to querying a mySQL database over a slow (iPhone hotspot) connection. I expected it to be significant, but HOW significant I had no idea. > > Querying for one record produced a performance ratio of 2600 to 1. Some will say, "Of course! What did you expect?" That is just the point. Many people assume repeated queries of an SQL database over a network to be tolerable, even if the connection is remote. But what if your application needs to make repeated queries? At some point, the overhead of repeated queries will exceed that of querying for all or a subset of the data once, storing it in a memory database, then performing your repeated queries on the memory database instead. > > I will test this over a LAN connection when I get into work tomorrow, but I expect it to be, if not AS significant, certainly more that one would expect. > > Just food for thought. > > Bob S > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Fri Apr 22 13:07:56 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2022 13:07:56 -0400 Subject: optionKeyDown message broken In-Reply-To: <1c71a1a7-b4af-53af-d28f-df2e60fc17e3@researchware.com> References: <76a263e1-96b4-cbdf-3f64-bf87269182ac@researchware.com> <578444fa-b460-ef07-4e28-5130d692dbc8@hyperactivesw.com> <1c71a1a7-b4af-53af-d28f-df2e60fc17e3@researchware.com> Message-ID: FYI for anyone who is interested: I submitted a bug report for the broken state of the optionKeyDown message. See https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23688 Please follow if you are interested in seeing this fixed. From ahsoftware at sonic.net Fri Apr 22 13:08:24 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2022 10:08:24 -0700 Subject: ANN: PowerDebug 2.3 Message-ID: Hi- It's been some three years since a major new release of PowerDebug, and with the 2022 LiveCode conference right around the corner, I think it's time to release PowerDebug 2.3. NOTE: in order to get responsive speed out of this thing, it's now only backwards-compatible to LiveCode 8.0. What's in the new build: * Much faster, especially viewing array variable elements. Yes... expanding big arrays in debug mode was painful before. Faster code colorization as well. * Faster and more robust standalone debugging. Still works locally or in the same subnet using sockets. Debug standalone applications with two lines of code. * Code profiling. If you don't already have the Pro package from LC, PowerDebug will add a new menuItem to the Development menu to toggle profiling on/off. Note that profiling *will* slow down your code considerably, but PowerDebug will display execution times down to the microsecond. * Improved error reporting, update checking, and more. Note that the usernames and passwords have changed for the new version. The url remains the same, but you'll need the new information to download the new version. And as always, your registration will never expire, so you have access to the latest versions. Documentation is at url: Known issues: LiveCode on Windows still doesn't support the long milliseconds, so I'm extrapolating to microseconds over multiple iterations. I don't have an iPhone or associated Apple developer account to test with, so I can't verify that standalone debugging works on iOS. Any help testing this would be appreciated. As long as iOS supports socket communications I assume this would work, but you never know. NOTE: I announced the new build to registered users earlier but I have several bounced messages. If you've previously registered PowerDebug but haven't gotten an email from me about it, get in touch. You won't be able to grab the new version without updated registration info. From tom at makeshyft.com Fri Apr 22 22:01:44 2022 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2022 22:01:44 -0400 Subject: ANN: PowerDebug 2.3 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey Mark, I will def check this out. Thank you. On Fri, Apr 22, 2022 at 1:09 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi- > > It's been some three years since a major new release of PowerDebug, and > with the 2022 LiveCode conference right around the corner, I think it's > time to release PowerDebug 2.3. > > NOTE: in order to get responsive speed out of this thing, it's now only > backwards-compatible to LiveCode 8.0. > > What's in the new build: > > * Much faster, especially viewing array variable elements. > Yes... expanding big arrays in debug mode was painful before. > Faster code colorization as well. > > * Faster and more robust standalone debugging. > Still works locally or in the same subnet using sockets. Debug > standalone applications with two lines of code. > > * Code profiling. > If you don't already have the Pro package from LC, PowerDebug will add a > new menuItem to the Development menu to toggle profiling on/off. Note > that profiling *will* slow down your code considerably, but PowerDebug > will display execution times down to the microsecond. > > * Improved error reporting, update checking, and more. > > Note that the usernames and passwords have changed for the new version. > The url remains the same, but you'll need the new information to > download the new version. And as always, your registration will never > expire, so you have access to the latest versions. > > Documentation is at > > url: > > > Known issues: > > LiveCode on Windows still doesn't support the long milliseconds, so I'm > extrapolating to microseconds over multiple iterations. > > I don't have an iPhone or associated Apple developer account to test > with, so I can't verify that standalone debugging works on iOS. Any help > testing this would be appreciated. As long as iOS supports socket > communications I assume this would work, but you never know. > > NOTE: I announced the new build to registered users earlier but I have > several bounced messages. If you've previously registered PowerDebug but > haven't gotten an email from me about it, get in touch. You won't be > able to grab the new version without updated registration info. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From craig at starfirelighting.com Tue Apr 26 15:37:15 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2022 15:37:15 -0400 Subject: Single Window LC IDE? Message-ID: <49FEA291-93F8-4611-8F11-18FE9F36A36B@starfirelighting.com> Saw this on Kevin's keynote. Some parts of having such a thing, as opposed to a sea of separate palettes, are attractive indeed. But one aspect would prevent me from EVER upgrading to v10, and that is if the SE also had to be incorporated into that single window. Anyone know if this is in fact planned? Craig From paul at researchware.com Tue Apr 26 16:22:06 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2022 16:22:06 -0400 Subject: Single Window LC IDE? In-Reply-To: <49FEA291-93F8-4611-8F11-18FE9F36A36B@starfirelighting.com> References: <49FEA291-93F8-4611-8F11-18FE9F36A36B@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: <7f626f44-d96d-d83b-bf80-dc7f3a401079@researchware.com> I didn't have a chance to ask follow up questions, but I recall Kevin saying they were headed towards "dockable windows", presumably meaning that all (or many) of the parts of the IDE can be docked into a single window view or undocked to separate windows (for example for people with multiple monitors doing desktop development. I have no idea if that includes the Script Editor, but I might expect that it would. On 4/26/2022 3:37 PM, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: > Saw this on Kevin's keynote. > > Some parts of having such a thing, as opposed to a sea of separate palettes, are attractive indeed. > > But one aspect would prevent me from EVER upgrading to v10, and that is if the SE also had to be incorporated into that single window. Anyone know if this is in fact planned? > > Craig > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Tue Apr 26 17:11:11 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2022 17:11:11 -0400 Subject: Single Window LC IDE? In-Reply-To: <7f626f44-d96d-d83b-bf80-dc7f3a401079@researchware.com> References: <49FEA291-93F8-4611-8F11-18FE9F36A36B@starfirelighting.com> <7f626f44-d96d-d83b-bf80-dc7f3a401079@researchware.com> Message-ID: I'm with you, Craig. There has never been a good single-window IDE, ever. I commented on this issue during the keynote. Kevin said that it would be an option, but not mandatory. If LC createss a browser-based IDE, which was discussed, it may be more difficult to support multiple windows _in_that_workflow_, so I can understand what they may be thinking about. On Tue, Apr 26, 2022 at 4:23 PM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I didn't have a chance to ask follow up questions, but I recall Kevin > saying they were headed towards "dockable windows", presumably meaning > that all (or many) of the parts of the IDE can be docked into a single > window view or undocked to separate windows (for example for people with > multiple monitors doing desktop development. I have no idea if that > includes the Script Editor, but I might expect that it would. > > On 4/26/2022 3:37 PM, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: > > Saw this on Kevin's keynote. > > > > Some parts of having such a thing, as opposed to a sea of separate > palettes, are attractive indeed. > > > > But one aspect would prevent me from EVER upgrading to v10, and that is > if the SE also had to be incorporated into that single window. Anyone know > if this is in fact planned? > > > > Craig > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From tom at makeshyft.com Tue Apr 26 17:18:16 2022 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2022 17:18:16 -0400 Subject: Single Window LC IDE? In-Reply-To: References: <49FEA291-93F8-4611-8F11-18FE9F36A36B@starfirelighting.com> <7f626f44-d96d-d83b-bf80-dc7f3a401079@researchware.com> Message-ID: I wouldn't worry that they will pigeon-hole the ide in that way. That would be madness. Cheers, Tom On Tue, Apr 26, 2022 at 5:13 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I'm with you, Craig. There has never been a good single-window IDE, ever. > I commented on this issue during the keynote. Kevin said that it would be > an option, but not mandatory. > If LC createss a browser-based IDE, which was discussed, it may be more > difficult to support multiple windows _in_that_workflow_, so I can > understand what they may be thinking about. > > On Tue, Apr 26, 2022 at 4:23 PM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > I didn't have a chance to ask follow up questions, but I recall Kevin > > saying they were headed towards "dockable windows", presumably meaning > > that all (or many) of the parts of the IDE can be docked into a single > > window view or undocked to separate windows (for example for people with > > multiple monitors doing desktop development. I have no idea if that > > includes the Script Editor, but I might expect that it would. > > > > On 4/26/2022 3:37 PM, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: > > > Saw this on Kevin's keynote. > > > > > > Some parts of having such a thing, as opposed to a sea of separate > > palettes, are attractive indeed. > > > > > > But one aspect would prevent me from EVER upgrading to v10, and that is > > if the SE also had to be incorporated into that single window. Anyone > know > > if this is in fact planned? > > > > > > Craig > > > _______________________________________________ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dochawk at gmail.com Tue Apr 26 17:57:59 2022 From: dochawk at gmail.com (doc hawk) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2022 14:57:59 -0700 Subject: Single Window LC IDE? In-Reply-To: References: <49FEA291-93F8-4611-8F11-18FE9F36A36B@starfirelighting.com> <7f626f44-d96d-d83b-bf80-dc7f3a401079@researchware.com> Message-ID: tom tumbled, >I wouldn't worry that they will pigeon-hole the ide in that way. >That would be madness. Was it StarOffie 4 (or 5?) that shipped such madness? I recall it being *utterly* unusable, and staying with the prior version. From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed Apr 27 09:17:01 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 09:17:01 -0400 Subject: Single Window LC IDE? In-Reply-To: References: <49FEA291-93F8-4611-8F11-18FE9F36A36B@starfirelighting.com> <7f626f44-d96d-d83b-bf80-dc7f3a401079@researchware.com> Message-ID: yeah, well, they not only discussed it, but they demo'd it, and seemed to be amped about it, so i'm concerned. On Tue, Apr 26, 2022 at 5:59 PM doc hawk via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > tom tumbled, > > >I wouldn't worry that they will pigeon-hole the ide in that way. > >That would be madness. > > Was it StarOffie 4 (or 5?) that shipped such madness? > > I recall it being *utterly* unusable, and staying with the prior version. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From dvglasgow at gmail.com Wed Apr 27 10:06:50 2022 From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David V Glasgow) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 15:06:50 +0100 Subject: Single Window LC IDE? In-Reply-To: References: <49FEA291-93F8-4611-8F11-18FE9F36A36B@starfirelighting.com> <7f626f44-d96d-d83b-bf80-dc7f3a401079@researchware.com> Message-ID: > On 27 Apr 2022, at 2:17 pm, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > they not only discussed it, but they demo'd it … and referred to it as a “new ‘dock windows’ capability”. Which sounds like it will still be each to his/her own. Cheers David G From williamdesmet at gmail.com Wed Apr 27 11:12:32 2022 From: williamdesmet at gmail.com (William de Smet) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 17:12:32 +0200 Subject: Curved text possible? Message-ID: Hi There, I am in the need for curved text. User input via a text field need to have a copied curved text output. Is this even possible in Livecode? I was thinking of text to the points of a path? Something like that? Greetings William From craig at starfirelighting.com Wed Apr 27 11:20:50 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 11:20:50 -0400 Subject: Curved text possible? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: How large is this curved text? You could certainly create an entire alphabet with polyLines, and insert them as needed to replace a body of text. But if you need 12 point size, those graphics are going to be, er, difficult to do nicely. Craig > On Apr 27, 2022, at 11:12 AM, William de Smet via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi There, > > I am in the need for curved text. > User input via a text field need to have a copied curved text output. > Is this even possible in Livecode? > I was thinking of text to the points of a path? Something like that? > > > Greetings William > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Wed Apr 27 11:44:03 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 11:44:03 -0400 Subject: Curved text possible? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55ce36bf-1810-076b-0dd6-3481ca515889@researchware.com> There is not a native way to do this in LiveCode. An approach might be to use the shell() function (see Dictionary) to pass the text to some external graphics utility that renders and image of it curved and then import the image back into Livecode. There may be other work-arounds. On 4/27/2022 11:12 AM, William de Smet via use-livecode wrote: > Hi There, > > I am in the need for curved text. > User input via a text field need to have a copied curved text output. > Is this even possible in Livecode? > I was thinking of text to the points of a path? Something like that? > > > Greetings William > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Wed Apr 27 11:49:31 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 11:49:31 -0400 Subject: Single Window LC IDE? In-Reply-To: References: <49FEA291-93F8-4611-8F11-18FE9F36A36B@starfirelighting.com> <7f626f44-d96d-d83b-bf80-dc7f3a401079@researchware.com> Message-ID: On 4/27/2022 10:06 AM, David V Glasgow via use-livecode wrote: > >> On 27 Apr 2022, at 2:17 pm, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: >> >> they not only discussed it, but they demo'd it > and referred to it as a new dock windows capability. Which sounds like it will still be each to his/her own. Well, if the language isn't updated to support dockable windows then that sucks! I've coded dockable windows in LC script currently. Each of 2 Windows has a group that contains all the relevant functions of the windows. One window has a dock/undock control outside it's groups. Docking moves the groups to the 1st window and remove the window so now the 1st window contains the 2 functional groups next to one another. The groups that was just docked has an undock control. Clicking it move that group back to it's own window which appears and is sized appropriately and the 1st window is resized for just the single group. It is a pain to script and it would make single vs multiple window layout management much easier if it was built into the language in some way. From williamdesmet at gmail.com Wed Apr 27 11:50:56 2022 From: williamdesmet at gmail.com (William de Smet) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 17:50:56 +0200 Subject: Curved text possible? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Craig, The text will mostly be names at start (but could also be more words in the future). Draw with polyLines. Didn't think of that. A lot of coding I think. Then I could also use SVG files to replace the text of the field. Maybe easier to enlarge, rotate a bit and give another backgroundcolor? The number of chars of fld "name" gives me the number of letters. Is there a quick way to define which letter on which place in the name? groeten, William Op wo 27 apr. 2022 om 17:21 schreef Craig Newman via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: > How large is this curved text? > > You could certainly create an entire alphabet with polyLines, and insert > them as needed to replace a body of text. But if you need 12 point size, > those graphics are going to be, er, difficult to do nicely. > > Craig > > > On Apr 27, 2022, at 11:12 AM, William de Smet via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > Hi There, > > > > I am in the need for curved text. > > User input via a text field need to have a copied curved text output. > > Is this even possible in Livecode? > > I was thinking of text to the points of a path? Something like that? > > > > > > Greetings William > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From williamdesmet at gmail.com Wed Apr 27 11:52:09 2022 From: williamdesmet at gmail.com (William de Smet) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 17:52:09 +0200 Subject: Curved text possible? In-Reply-To: <55ce36bf-1810-076b-0dd6-3481ca515889@researchware.com> References: <55ce36bf-1810-076b-0dd6-3481ca515889@researchware.com> Message-ID: Hi Paul, It will be an iOS app. groeten, William Op wo 27 apr. 2022 om 17:45 schreef Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: > There is not a native way to do this in LiveCode. > > An approach might be to use the shell() function (see Dictionary) to > pass the text to some external graphics utility that renders and image > of it curved and then import the image back into Livecode. There may be > other work-arounds. > > On 4/27/2022 11:12 AM, William de Smet via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi There, > > > > I am in the need for curved text. > > User input via a text field need to have a copied curved text output. > > Is this even possible in Livecode? > > I was thinking of text to the points of a path? Something like that? > > > > > > Greetings William > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Apr 27 11:58:12 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 10:58:12 -0500 Subject: Single Window LC IDE? In-Reply-To: References: <49FEA291-93F8-4611-8F11-18FE9F36A36B@starfirelighting.com> <7f626f44-d96d-d83b-bf80-dc7f3a401079@researchware.com> Message-ID: <1806bbe8a38.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> In a later session they said it was just a mock up at this point. When asked about supporting multiple monitors they said it would, and they'd need to consider tear-off windows. I like the new look very much, but most of us old timers have specific requirements which LC agrees they want to accommodate. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On April 27, 2022 8:20:01 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > yeah, well, they not only discussed it, but they demo'd it, and seemed to > be amped about it, so i'm concerned. > > On Tue, Apr 26, 2022 at 5:59 PM doc hawk via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> tom tumbled, >> >> >I wouldn't worry that they will pigeon-hole the ide in that way. >> >That would be madness. >> >> Was it StarOffie 4 (or 5?) that shipped such madness? >> >> I recall it being *utterly* unusable, and staying with the prior version. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Wed Apr 27 12:24:26 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 12:24:26 -0400 Subject: Single Window LC IDE? In-Reply-To: <1806bbe8a38.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <49FEA291-93F8-4611-8F11-18FE9F36A36B@starfirelighting.com> <7f626f44-d96d-d83b-bf80-dc7f3a401079@researchware.com> <1806bbe8a38.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <6a9ae50f-d855-c6ae-c5c8-9eabe98fa897@researchware.com> On 4/27/2022 11:58 AM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > I like the new look very much, but most of us old timers have specific > requirements which LC agrees they want to accommodate. I'm fine with the IDE being either multi-window or single-window. I've worked with both in the past and can adapt to either. I would REALLY like language support for easier layouts, from groups (or views) with built-in slidable dividers (H & V) to easier way to set up resizable groups or controls. The geometry manager is not idea and coding by hand gets exact results but is time intensive. Language support for "tearable" or "dockable" windows is another HIGHLY desired enhancement. 80% of our development time is on the UI. We're a data analytics product. Much more of our developer time should be on the data analysis code for new analytical features not  simply making the UI work. From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org Wed Apr 27 12:38:43 2022 From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (ELS Prothero) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 09:38:43 -0700 Subject: Curved text possible? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2EC34B06-F3C8-42F9-9495-F128A7BB7EFB@earthlearningsolutions.org> Folks, I made a vertically oriented y axis text label for a data plot once. The text was written in a field with a transparent background, then a screen capture of the text field area, then rotating the captured image 90 degrees. It worked great. Obvious limitation was that the background was included in the capture. I wonder if something like this could be done letter by letter, then re-captured in a summary graphic. I seem to remember someone making a plugin, years ago, that made text on a curve. Best, Bill William Prothero https://earthlearningsolutions.org > On Apr 27, 2022, at 8:53 AM, William de Smet via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Paul, > > It will be an iOS app. > > > groeten, > > William > > > > > Op wo 27 apr. 2022 om 17:45 schreef Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: > >> There is not a native way to do this in LiveCode. >> >> An approach might be to use the shell() function (see Dictionary) to >> pass the text to some external graphics utility that renders and image >> of it curved and then import the image back into Livecode. There may be >> other work-arounds. >> >>> On 4/27/2022 11:12 AM, William de Smet via use-livecode wrote: >>> Hi There, >>> >>> I am in the need for curved text. >>> User input via a text field need to have a copied curved text output. >>> Is this even possible in Livecode? >>> I was thinking of text to the points of a path? Something like that? >>> >>> >>> Greetings William >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Apr 27 12:39:20 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 16:39:20 +0000 Subject: Single Window LC IDE? In-Reply-To: <6a9ae50f-d855-c6ae-c5c8-9eabe98fa897@researchware.com> References: <49FEA291-93F8-4611-8F11-18FE9F36A36B@starfirelighting.com> <7f626f44-d96d-d83b-bf80-dc7f3a401079@researchware.com> <1806bbe8a38.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <6a9ae50f-d855-c6ae-c5c8-9eabe98fa897@researchware.com> Message-ID: <8812DF51-7463-43DD-BE0D-BB5D3DCCF100@iotecdigital.com> I watched the keynote by Kevin, and I think all your concerns are slated to be addressed. Bob S > On Apr 27, 2022, at 09:24 , Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > > On 4/27/2022 11:58 AM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >> I like the new look very much, but most of us old timers have specific requirements which LC agrees they want to accommodate. > > I'm fine with the IDE being either multi-window or single-window. I've worked with both in the past and can adapt to either. > > I would REALLY like language support for easier layouts, from groups (or views) with built-in slidable dividers (H & V) to easier way to set up resizable groups or controls. The geometry manager is not idea and coding by hand gets exact results but is time intensive. Language support for "tearable" or "dockable" windows is another HIGHLY desired enhancement. > > 80% of our development time is on the UI. We're a data analytics product. Much more of our developer time should be on the data analysis code for new analytical features not simply making the UI work. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From craig at starfirelighting.com Wed Apr 27 12:39:40 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 12:39:40 -0400 Subject: Curved text possible? In-Reply-To: References: <55ce36bf-1810-076b-0dd6-3481ca515889@researchware.com> Message-ID: <0EE69B34-9150-468D-9590-C03D4D353168@starfirelighting.com> The polyLine character substitution will be a simple. Creation will be a bear, but only once. If you had “Hello World” and wanted to “curve” it, you would simply pull the appropriate curved chars, “H”,, “e’, “l, etc. and string them together. Uh oh, what about kerning? I hope this is a monospaced curved font you are thinking about. Craig > On Apr 27, 2022, at 11:52 AM, William de Smet via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Paul, > > It will be an iOS app. > > > groeten, > > William > > > > > Op wo 27 apr. 2022 om 17:45 schreef Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: > >> There is not a native way to do this in LiveCode. >> >> An approach might be to use the shell() function (see Dictionary) to >> pass the text to some external graphics utility that renders and image >> of it curved and then import the image back into Livecode. There may be >> other work-arounds. >> >> On 4/27/2022 11:12 AM, William de Smet via use-livecode wrote: >>> Hi There, >>> >>> I am in the need for curved text. >>> User input via a text field need to have a copied curved text output. >>> Is this even possible in Livecode? >>> I was thinking of text to the points of a path? Something like that? >>> >>> >>> Greetings William >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dochawk at gmail.com Wed Apr 27 12:47:46 2022 From: dochawk at gmail.com (doc hawk) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 09:47:46 -0700 Subject: Curved text possible? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D1A0C7B-72A6-47C1-A625-7C69043496DD@gmail.com> I looked at this some years ago. I forget why I wanted to do it (a logo, perhaps?). My conclusion was that the best way would be to write it as either eps or postscript. This gives you something that can be trivially rotated without loss, but the catch is that you have to then feed it to an external program to concert it to something that livecode can display (png, jpg, whatever). I decided that it wasn’t worth the effort,. At the time, eps was still included in the documentation, but I think the last platforms livecode actually supported eps on were NeXT and Sunos From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Apr 27 14:26:21 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 11:26:21 -0700 Subject: You're invited: LC DevCon After-Party Message-ID: <6d3ad3f7-08aa-a99f-65ac-0410825b56a7@fourthworld.com> The LC DevCon is so much fun it seems fitting to add one more session off-schedule and completely informal: a Zoom after-party. Come and hang out anytime today (Weed, 27 April) from 6:00 PM EDT until 6:40 PM EDT. That gives us an hour after the close of the last session to take a moment to breathe and catch up on emails and stuff before hanging out with pals to discuss the conference and anything else that comes up. Here's the Zoom invite - zoom will grant access for the first 100 attendees, and we'll have 40 minutes to hang out: ---------- Richard Gaskin is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting. Topic: LiveCode DevCon After-Party Time: Apr 27, 2022 03:00 PM Pacific Time (US and Canada) Join Zoom Meeting https://us02web.zoom.us/j/88049771247?pwd=VUVPdVJBQnYwT09pdThzdE04djVMZz09 Meeting ID: 880 4977 1247 Passcode: 1q8uGx -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems From ahsoftware at sonic.net Wed Apr 27 17:52:58 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 14:52:58 -0700 Subject: ANN: PowerTools 2.2.0 Message-ID: <1a019f7f-e8db-f386-1cf3-84bc43bb8ac9@sonic.net> Hi- It's been some four years since a major new release of PowerTools, and with the 2022 LiveCode conference out of the way for now, I think it's time to release PowerTools 2.2. What's in PowerTools: * Logical separation of tools from objects * Double-click to minimize/restore size * Non-blocking optional date/version check Objects: * Gives unique names for newly-created objects * More built-in tools (H/V field splitters, menubar, progressbars, etc) * Stack factory (built-in and custom sizes) Paint/Graphic tools: * Paint/Graphic tools retain individual properties Widgets: * Support for LCB widgets and LCS group controls * Organize widgets into folders * Supports file links cross-platform As always, PowerTools registrations will never expire, so you always have access to the latest versions. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From paul at researchware.com Wed Apr 27 18:21:26 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 18:21:26 -0400 Subject: LC 9.6.7 export snapshot from a player object seems to fail on Windows (10) Message-ID: I am executing the following 2 lines of code:               export snapshot from rect tRect of player "mediaConvert" of stack "libHrAPI" to tImage as PNG               put tImage into img "imageConvert" of stack "libHrAPI" Prior to the export the player has a video load and has the currentTime set to a particular frame, and I can see in the stack that the player is showing the correct frame is visible. I can also see that the image "imageConvert" is also visible, but empty After the Export Snapshot is executed, it looks like tImage contains valid PNG data, although I can not tell if it is the correct image After the Put statement, the image "imageConvert" is set to a white rectangle with a little bit of the player border on the left and top. It is the same size as the player where as the empty image I started with was larger. This is with LC 9.6.7 on Windows 10. This code works on macOS. Does anyone know if there is a known Windows bug with export a snapshot form a player and any work around? From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu Apr 28 09:44:38 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 09:44:38 -0400 Subject: devcon 2022 recap Message-ID: I am stuck in a time sink. I missed just about all of the devcon as a result. Anyone want to fire off on a recap? -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From marksmithhfx at gmail.com Thu Apr 28 10:13:59 2022 From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 15:13:59 +0100 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mike, check out the LC blog posts for summaries of Days 1 and 2, not sure if a day 3 will be posted (https://livecode.com/reporting-on-day-1-of-the-livecode-conference/). > On 28 Apr 2022, at 14:44, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > I am stuck in a time sink. I missed just about all of the devcon as a > result. Anyone want to fire off on a recap? > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mkoob at rogers.com Thu Apr 28 11:10:43 2022 From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 11:10:43 -0400 Subject: Curved text possible? In-Reply-To: <4D1A0C7B-72A6-47C1-A625-7C69043496DD@gmail.com> References: <4D1A0C7B-72A6-47C1-A625-7C69043496DD@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0D4E5104-2E75-4978-A083-BEE016B844B7@rogers.com> I was thinking that SVG might work as someone else has said. At first I thought you could create individual files for each letter and number and put the path for a letter into a svg widget which you could rotate or scale. you would then have to calculate the angle of rotation and location of each svg widget on a path. But then when I tried rotating the svg widget its scale would change as it rotated because the bounds of the rect were changing. Then you would have to calculate the scale depending on the rotation angle and that seemed a bit much. I also thought you could import the svg file as an image and perhaps that would not have the odd behaviour when rotating. I did not try that though. Then I found this. https://css-tricks.com/snippets/svg/curved-text-along-path/ it shows how to use css to put text along a SVG path. At the LiveCode Dev Con there were a few unconventional uses of the browser widget beyond displaying webpages that add features that can add features that LiveCode does not have natively. So I thought maybe this is one of them. So what I thought could be done is display the above in a browser widget or, If you did not want to show the browser widget, use the browser widget to render the curved text, thentake a snapshot of the rendered text and then show that in an image. Not sure if it will work but the sessions at the conference have really got me thinking of new ways to leverage the technology in that widget. Martin Koob > On Apr 27, 2022, at 12:47 PM, doc hawk via use-livecode wrote: > > I looked at this some years ago. I forget why I wanted to do it (a logo, perhaps?). > > My conclusion was that the best way would be to write it as either eps or postscript. > > This gives you something that can be trivially rotated without loss, but the catch is that you have to then feed it to an external program to concert it to something that livecode can display (png, jpg, whatever). > > I decided that it wasn’t worth the effort,. > > At the time, eps was still included in the documentation, but I think the last platforms livecode actually supported eps on were NeXT and Sunos > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu Apr 28 11:12:47 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 11:12:47 -0400 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I did, but I was hoping for some community comment, as well. On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 10:15 AM Mark Smith via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Mike, check out the LC blog posts for summaries of Days 1 and 2, not sure > if a day 3 will be posted ( > https://livecode.com/reporting-on-day-1-of-the-livecode-conference/). > > > On 28 Apr 2022, at 14:44, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > I am stuck in a time sink. I missed just about all of the devcon as a > > result. Anyone want to fire off on a recap? > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Apr 28 11:18:13 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 15:18:13 +0000 Subject: Curved text possible? In-Reply-To: <0D4E5104-2E75-4978-A083-BEE016B844B7@rogers.com> References: <4D1A0C7B-72A6-47C1-A625-7C69043496DD@gmail.com> <0D4E5104-2E75-4978-A083-BEE016B844B7@rogers.com> Message-ID: <8A2E9450-8F9F-4BB4-B235-7A353CC93EFB@iotecdigital.com> Great ideas Martin. I'm going to grant you an honorary doctorate from the institute of Sly Laboratories. Bob S > On Apr 28, 2022, at 08:10 , Martin Koob via use-livecode wrote: > > I was thinking that SVG might work as someone else has said. > > At first I thought you could create individual files for each letter and number and put the path for a letter into a svg widget which you could rotate or scale. > you would then have to calculate the angle of rotation and location of each svg widget on a path. But then when I tried rotating the svg widget its scale would change as it rotated because the bounds of the rect were changing. Then you would have to calculate the scale depending on the rotation angle and that seemed a bit much. > > I also thought you could import the svg file as an image and perhaps that would not have the odd behaviour when rotating. I did not try that though. > > Then I found this. > > https://css-tricks.com/snippets/svg/curved-text-along-path/ > > it shows how to use css to put text along a SVG path. At the LiveCode Dev Con there were a few unconventional uses of the browser widget beyond displaying webpages that add features that can add features that LiveCode does not have natively. So I thought maybe this is one of them. So what I thought could be done is display the above in a browser widget or, If you did not want to show the browser widget, use the browser widget to render the curved text, thentake a snapshot of the rendered text and then show that in an image. > > Not sure if it will work but the sessions at the conference have really got me thinking of new ways to leverage the technology in that widget. > > Martin Koob From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Thu Apr 28 11:25:20 2022 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 11:25:20 -0400 Subject: Curved text possible? In-Reply-To: <8A2E9450-8F9F-4BB4-B235-7A353CC93EFB@iotecdigital.com> References: <4D1A0C7B-72A6-47C1-A625-7C69043496DD@gmail.com> <0D4E5104-2E75-4978-A083-BEE016B844B7@rogers.com> <8A2E9450-8F9F-4BB4-B235-7A353CC93EFB@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <004101d85b14$2ecba080$8c62e180$@net> +1 Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Bob Sneidar via use-livecode Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2022 11:18 AM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Bob Sneidar Subject: Re: Curved text possible? Great ideas Martin. I'm going to grant you an honorary doctorate from the institute of Sly Laboratories. Bob S > On Apr 28, 2022, at 08:10 , Martin Koob via use-livecode wrote: > > I was thinking that SVG might work as someone else has said. > > At first I thought you could create individual files for each letter and number and put the path for a letter into a svg widget which you could rotate or scale. > you would then have to calculate the angle of rotation and location of each svg widget on a path. But then when I tried rotating the svg widget its scale would change as it rotated because the bounds of the rect were changing. Then you would have to calculate the scale depending on the rotation angle and that seemed a bit much. > > I also thought you could import the svg file as an image and perhaps that would not have the odd behaviour when rotating. I did not try that though. > > Then I found this. > > https://css-tricks.com/snippets/svg/curved-text-along-path/ > > it shows how to use css to put text along a SVG path. At the LiveCode Dev Con there were a few unconventional uses of the browser widget beyond displaying webpages that add features that can add features that LiveCode does not have natively. So I thought maybe this is one of them. So what I thought could be done is display the above in a browser widget or, If you did not want to show the browser widget, use the browser widget to render the curved text, thentake a snapshot of the rendered text and then show that in an image. > > Not sure if it will work but the sessions at the conference have really got me thinking of new ways to leverage the technology in that widget. > > Martin Koob _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Thu Apr 28 11:39:08 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 17:39:08 +0200 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It was really an amazing event. And although i am not a big Zoom fan, the decision of the team to use Zoom was the right one. It allowed much more interaction. All 3 keynotes were very interesting and make me think and hope that Livecode Ltd. is on its right way to grow. Marks Waddingham's session about the script compiler... Okay, i did only understand half or quarter of it... ;) But that was not Mark's fault. It was caused by my lack of knowledge. The sessions 'Automate PDF Forms with LC Server' held by Christopher Flat and Michael McCreary's session 'Docker and Livecode Server' were the importan ones for me. I will definitely view all sessions i missed and will review all sessions i joined as soon as the recordings are available. All in all it was a really awesome experience and the next time i will be prepared and have my webcam set up. ;) I was so impressed especially by the planned new features of LC that i subscribed right away to the upcoming LC Global 22/23 which starts in May this year. https://livecode.com/global/global2022/ Matthias > Am 28.04.2022 um 17:12 schrieb Mike Kerner via use-livecode : > > I did, but I was hoping for some community comment, as well. > > On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 10:15 AM Mark Smith via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Mike, check out the LC blog posts for summaries of Days 1 and 2, not sure >> if a day 3 will be posted ( >> https://livecode.com/reporting-on-day-1-of-the-livecode-conference/). >> >>> On 28 Apr 2022, at 14:44, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>> I am stuck in a time sink. I missed just about all of the devcon as a >>> result. Anyone want to fire off on a recap? >>> >>> -- >>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >>> On the second day, God created the oceans. >>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >>> and did a little diving. >>> And God said, "This is good." >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From williamdesmet at gmail.com Thu Apr 28 11:42:00 2022 From: williamdesmet at gmail.com (William de Smet) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 17:42:00 +0200 Subject: Curved text possible? In-Reply-To: <004101d85b14$2ecba080$8c62e180$@net> References: <4D1A0C7B-72A6-47C1-A625-7C69043496DD@gmail.com> <0D4E5104-2E75-4978-A083-BEE016B844B7@rogers.com> <8A2E9450-8F9F-4BB4-B235-7A353CC93EFB@iotecdigital.com> <004101d85b14$2ecba080$8c62e180$@net> Message-ID: Thanks! I came up with sort of the same idea yesterday evening and I am tetsting it now. I load a local html file within the browser widget with circletype.js added to the html file. A native textfield (and some extra code) writes back into the html file and then I refresh the card. A snapshot gives me the curved text. There is also Arctext,js that I want to test. I will come back later with my result. groeten, William Op do 28 apr. 2022 om 17:24 schreef Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: > +1 > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On > Behalf > Of Bob Sneidar via use-livecode > Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2022 11:18 AM > To: How to use LiveCode > Cc: Bob Sneidar > Subject: Re: Curved text possible? > > Great ideas Martin. I'm going to grant you an honorary doctorate from the > institute of Sly Laboratories. > > Bob S > > > > On Apr 28, 2022, at 08:10 , Martin Koob via use-livecode > wrote: > > > > I was thinking that SVG might work as someone else has said. > > > > At first I thought you could create individual files for each letter and > number and put the path for a letter into a svg widget which you could > rotate or scale. > > you would then have to calculate the angle of rotation and location of > each svg widget on a path. But then when I tried rotating the svg widget > its scale would change as it rotated because the bounds of the rect were > changing. Then you would have to calculate the scale depending on the > rotation angle and that seemed a bit much. > > > > I also thought you could import the svg file as an image and perhaps that > would not have the odd behaviour when rotating. I did not try that though. > > > > Then I found this. > > > > https://css-tricks.com/snippets/svg/curved-text-along-path/ > > > > > it shows how to use css to put text along a SVG path. At the LiveCode > Dev > Con there were a few unconventional uses of the browser widget beyond > displaying webpages that add features that can add features that LiveCode > does not have natively. So I thought maybe this is one of them. So what I > thought could be done is display the above in a browser widget or, If you > did not want to show the browser widget, use the browser widget to render > the curved text, thentake a snapshot of the rendered text and then show > that > in an image. > > > > Not sure if it will work but the sessions at the conference have really > got me thinking of new ways to leverage the technology in that widget. > > > > Martin Koob > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From paul at researchware.com Thu Apr 28 11:49:37 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 11:49:37 -0400 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8f667f61-a644-7583-0832-a253de6fd2f6@researchware.com> On 4/28/2022 11:12 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > I did, but I was hoping for some community comment, as well. Here is my take on the content I was interested in: 1) Web application development. If you are building a new app for the web, you can do that pretty well now in LC 9.6.7 and LC 10 will be even better. 2) If you have an existing application, say for the Desktop, but also for Mobile, depending upon what that app does, porting it to the web under LC 9.6.7 can run into problems, under LC 10 it will be easier, but 10 still has a lot of "developer preview (dp) releases to go before all the things that will make web apps under 10 better will be there. 3) The compiler will be a nice addition for most people, an *essential* addition if you have some app that is currently performance constrained. The compiler is off in the LC 10 (release) and LC 11 time frame. 4) In Kevin keynote he alluded to some possible language/object enhancements t o make responsive UI design easier (less coding). These may (or may not) include such things as a "group type" object to layout panes or rows and columns  for interface elements (other LC objects) and - as part of another topic - a new single window IDE design may have dockable and undockable windows that may or may not have code support that developers can use to make having their own dockable/undockable windows built more easily. Some of this work will be a replacement for the Geometry Manager (little used due to problems with it) So, for me, a number of things I am keenly interested in: (1) easier posting of existing desktop apps to the web, (2) faster apps, and (3) language enhancements that may UI design faster and involves less coding. However none of this is available now and it will be arriving over various time frames from "soon" to "later". All comments and interpretations of what was presented are my own. Paul Dupuis Researchware From heather at livecode.com Thu Apr 28 11:51:35 2022 From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 16:51:35 +0100 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: A Day 3 will be posted: https://livecode.com/day-3-and-conference-roundup/ :) Enjoy. Best Regards, Heather Heather Laine Customer Services Manager LiveCode Ltd www.livecode.com > On 28 Apr 2022, at 15:13, Mark Smith via use-livecode wrote: > > Mike, check out the LC blog posts for summaries of Days 1 and 2, not sure if a day 3 will be posted (https://livecode.com/reporting-on-day-1-of-the-livecode-conference/). > >> On 28 Apr 2022, at 14:44, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: >> >> I am stuck in a time sink. I missed just about all of the devcon as a >> result. Anyone want to fire off on a recap? >> >> -- >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >> On the second day, God created the oceans. >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> and did a little diving. >> And God said, "This is good." >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From marksmithhfx at gmail.com Thu Apr 28 12:06:24 2022 From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 17:06:24 +0100 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I thought it was a pretty good conference Mike, and surprisingly well handled by Zoom (although it took me 3 days to figure out what all the bits and pieces of the interface were for) and there were some pretty great presentations. Some I had to miss because of other commitments so I’ll be looking forward to watching them post-conf when Heather has a chance to upload them. There were a lot of very forward looking sessions from Kevin and company, and Mark Talluto had an interesting take on app development presented during his plenary (Appli.io ). Lots of ideas I think on how things could be improved or, as Mark said “made as simple as possible, but no simpler” (or maybe that was Einstein!!). Either way, great quote/comment. Like Matthias, I signed up for the LC Global 22/23 just so I could keep up with it all during the coming year. > On Apr 28, 2022, at 4:12 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > I did, but I was hoping for some community comment, as well. > > On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 10:15 AM Mark Smith via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Mike, check out the LC blog posts for summaries of Days 1 and 2, not sure >> if a day 3 will be posted ( >> https://livecode.com/reporting-on-day-1-of-the-livecode-conference/). >> >>> On 28 Apr 2022, at 14:44, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>> I am stuck in a time sink. I missed just about all of the devcon as a >>> result. Anyone want to fire off on a recap? >>> >>> -- >>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >>> On the second day, God created the oceans. >>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >>> and did a little diving. >>> And God said, "This is good." >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Apr 28 12:09:45 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 16:09:45 +0000 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2362DD23-522A-4F6F-A72E-0604D668B4F0@iotecdigital.com> Anytime I get to thinking I'm a pretty smart guy, I can just watch one of Mark Waddingham's sessions, and be duly humbled. ;-) Bob S > On Apr 28, 2022, at 09:06 , Mark Smith via use-livecode wrote: > > I thought it was a pretty good conference Mike, and surprisingly well handled by Zoom (although it took me 3 days to figure out what all the bits and pieces of the interface were for) and there were some pretty great presentations. Some I had to miss because of other commitments so I’ll be looking forward to watching them post-conf when Heather has a chance to upload them. There were a lot of very forward looking sessions from Kevin and company, and Mark Talluto had an interesting take on app development presented during his plenary (Appli.io ). Lots of ideas I think on how things could be improved or, as Mark said “made as simple as possible, but no simpler” (or maybe that was Einstein!!). Either way, great quote/comment. Like Matthias, I signed up for the LC Global 22/23 just so I could keep up with it all during the coming year. From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Apr 28 12:37:59 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 11:37:59 -0500 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <18071095658.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Same here, I'm really looking forward to seeing the iterations of the new IDE and features as they happen. The future looks very bright and I want to be there. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On April 28, 2022 10:41:12 AM matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > I was so impressed especially by the planned new features of LC that i > subscribed right away to the upcoming LC Global 22/23 which starts in May > this year. > https://livecode.com/global/global2022/ > From ahsoftware at sonic.net Thu Apr 28 12:55:35 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 09:55:35 -0700 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 4/28/22 08:39, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > I was so impressed especially by the planned new features of LC that i subscribed right away to the upcoming LC Global 22/23 which starts in May this year. > https://livecode.com/global/global2022/ Same here. I misjudged the time so I overslept and missed Mark Waddingham's keynote but I'll catch it on the rebound. I do think Appli gives LC what's been missing to draw in new users, so check out Mark Talluto's keynote on day 3 for the details. And I highly recommend Craig Newman's lightning talk. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu Apr 28 15:02:19 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 15:02:19 -0400 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: just a couple of thoughts from the whole two hours I was on for Monday: * Cough up your $299 for LCG, today. * This wasn't discussed, but there is supposed to be some fixing coming in dp's of 10 for behaviors, especially nested behaviors * The whole low-code piece...meh. It feels like they're chasing another dead end. * I heard some hints about discussion of some better object management and handling. I hope that happens. * Still nothing on dealing with the way groups are handled. On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 12:56 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 4/28/22 08:39, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > > > I was so impressed especially by the planned new features of LC that i > subscribed right away to the upcoming LC Global 22/23 which starts in May > this year. > > https://livecode.com/global/global2022/ < > https://livecode.com/global/global2022/> > > Same here. I misjudged the time so I overslept and missed Mark > Waddingham's keynote but I'll catch it on the rebound. I do think Appli > gives LC what's been missing to draw in new users, so check out Mark > Talluto's keynote on day 3 for the details. And I highly recommend Craig > Newman's lightning talk. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Apr 28 15:37:29 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 14:37:29 -0500 Subject: Native Android input field Message-ID: In the after-party that Richard set up on the last day of the conference, the question came up whether the native Android field widget would scroll. The answer is, yes it does. There is one little glitch. If the widget is editable, and your finger lifts inside the widget after scrolling, the keyboard pops up. If you end the scroll while your finger is outside the field area, it does not. This doesn't happen if the field is not editable. Also in either case, the scroll isn't as smooth as it is when constructed in a script. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From ahsoftware at sonic.net Thu Apr 28 15:45:28 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 12:45:28 -0700 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8145432e-26f1-7627-02f7-554f9dddd646@sonic.net> On 4/28/22 12:02, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > * The whole low-code piece...meh. It feels like they're chasing another > dead end. Oh, I gotta disagree there. Just a different target audience. Maybe not for those of us already in the flock, but I think what's been missing from LiveCode is that first-user experience. The one when you first launched HyperCard and were able to connect a button to a new card without doing anything more than point and click and bang! you had a working application. I think appli can be the gateway drug to LC that expands the subscriber base, and that's good for everybody. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Apr 28 15:54:42 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 12:54:42 -0700 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: <8145432e-26f1-7627-02f7-554f9dddd646@sonic.net> References: <8145432e-26f1-7627-02f7-554f9dddd646@sonic.net> Message-ID: <0660c4c2-6450-2248-8fcf-8004e0d0733c@fourthworld.com> To clarify: "low code" is just a modern term for what LC's been providing the whole time. "no code" is what Appli does, an adjacent but very different market for those whose needs can be satisfied without the nuance scripting provides. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Mark Wieder wrote: > On 4/28/22 12:02, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > >> * The whole low-code piece...meh. It feels like they're chasing another >> dead end. > > Oh, I gotta disagree there. Just a different target audience. > > Maybe not for those of us already in the flock, but I think what's been > missing from LiveCode is that first-user experience. The one when you > first launched HyperCard and were able to connect a button to a new card > without doing anything more than point and click and bang! you had a > working application. I think appli can be the gateway drug to LC that > expands the subscriber base, and that's good for everybody. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Apr 28 15:57:16 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 12:57:16 -0700 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1af046d3-83b1-5f2d-c798-53c1c7e4a886@fourthworld.com> Mike Kerner wrote: > * This wasn't discussed, but there is supposed to be some > fixing coming in dp's of 10 for behaviors, especially > nested behaviors I missed a bug report: what are the issues with nested behaviors? > * Still nothing on dealing with the way groups are handled. What aspects of group handling, and how should they be different? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ahsoftware at sonic.net Thu Apr 28 16:08:44 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 13:08:44 -0700 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: <0660c4c2-6450-2248-8fcf-8004e0d0733c@fourthworld.com> References: <8145432e-26f1-7627-02f7-554f9dddd646@sonic.net> <0660c4c2-6450-2248-8fcf-8004e0d0733c@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <28c5f8d6-e034-ee63-1565-b72b25adadc7@sonic.net> On 4/28/22 12:54, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > To clarify: > > "low code" is just a modern term for what LC's been providing the whole > time. > > "no code" is what Appli does, an adjacent but very different market for > those whose needs can be satisfied without the nuance scripting provides. > I think what I saw in Mark's keynote is the ability in appli do some coding, just not to any extent the deep capabilities of LiveCode. Thus "low code". -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Apr 28 16:26:12 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 20:26:12 +0000 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That looked really interesing to me. The ability to create a no code web app was especially intriguing. I was not able to find the app on the Apple Store though. Where do I get the 45 day demo?? Bob S > On Apr 28, 2022, at 12:02 , Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > * The whole low-code piece...meh. It feels like they're chasing another > dead end. From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Apr 28 16:27:39 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 20:27:39 +0000 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <16E8D9EA-374D-4B63-B6F3-6C21CAF6177E@iotecdigital.com> NVM I found it. Not on the app store. Bob S > On Apr 28, 2022, at 13:26 , Bob Sneidar wrote: > > That looked really interesing to me. The ability to create a no code web app was especially intriguing. I was not able to find the app on the Apple Store though. Where do I get the 45 day demo?? > > Bob S > > >> On Apr 28, 2022, at 12:02 , Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: >> >> * The whole low-code piece...meh. It feels like they're chasing another >> dead end. > From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Apr 28 16:53:50 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 20:53:50 +0000 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: <1af046d3-83b1-5f2d-c798-53c1c7e4a886@fourthworld.com> References: <1af046d3-83b1-5f2d-c798-53c1c7e4a886@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Richard, I've been pounding the pulpit on this one for some time. Besides the default datagrid behavior, I have a whole library of handlers that I use for my datagrids that I need to access. To do this, I need my library to be inserted *between* the datagrid and the default behavior. This is not presently possible without a bit of magic someone sent to me. The fix is simple and elegant and has worked for me since I started using it. In behaviorsdatagridbuttonbehavior.livecodescript I replaced the private function _resourceStack handler with an updated one: -- Sly Labs! Inline Custom Behaviors /* private function _ResourceStack local theStack, theCharNo put the behavior of me into theStack if theStack is not empty then put offset(" of stack", theStack) into theCharNo delete char 1 to (theCharNo + 3) of theStack end if return theStack end _ResourceStack */ local sResourceStack private function _ResourceStack local theStack, theCharNo if sResourceStack is empty then put the behavior of me into theStack repeat if trueWord -1 of theStack is "revDataGridLibrary" or theStack is empty then exit repeat else put the behavior of theStack into theStack end if end repeat if theStack is not empty then put offset(" of stack", theStack) into theCharNo delete char 1 to (theCharNo + 3) of theStack end if put theStack into sResourceStack end if return sResourceStack end _ResourceStack -- END Sly Labs! Inline Custom Behaviors If I then set the behavior of the datagrid to my custom behavior, then set that behavior to the default datagrid behavior, then I have nested datagrid behaviors. (I think it's a bit more complex but that is the idea.) What's the advantage you say? Well for instance I have a selectionChanged hander that I use for all my datagrids, preventing me from having to code it in every datagrid in my app, which is quite a few. That selectionChanged handler accomodates a FindBar object so if I am searching for a data record in a database, selecting the found record in the datagrid will reload all the other associated data. Also in that behavior I have a standard method for querying data for the datagrids, a standard method for populating fields, buttons and menus on the card the datagrid is on, and a mouseDoubleUp handler so that when a user double clicks on a datagrid row I can process it. These use custom properties I set for each datagrid so that things like the table to query, the primary key, the field to focus on when done etc. are accessible to the particular datagrid. As a result, all I have to do now to create a new datagrid is copy/paste an existing one, name it, change a few custom properties, and set the column names, and away it goes. I suppose what would be needed to support this in the release versions of LC is a way to easily "insert" a behavior "before" or "after" the default behavior. Bob S > On Apr 28, 2022, at 12:57 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > Mike Kerner wrote: > > > * This wasn't discussed, but there is supposed to be some > > fixing coming in dp's of 10 for behaviors, especially > > nested behaviors > > I missed a bug report: what are the issues with nested behaviors? > > > > * Still nothing on dealing with the way groups are handled. > > What aspects of group handling, and how should they be different? > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Apr 28 16:58:00 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 13:58:00 -0700 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: <28c5f8d6-e034-ee63-1565-b72b25adadc7@sonic.net> References: <28c5f8d6-e034-ee63-1565-b72b25adadc7@sonic.net> Message-ID: <378fd701-439d-6447-3743-b93652a85d4d@fourthworld.com> Yes, but that's something of an "expert feature" in that intended market, much like coding externals for LC. In terms of general product flavor and intent, LC is "low code" and Appli is "no code". Given the clear mission for each, they seem good compliments. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems > Mark Wieder ahsoftware at sonic.net > Thu Apr 28 16:08:44 EDT 2022 > > Previous message (by thread): devcon 2022 recap > Next message (by thread): devcon 2022 recap > Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] > > On 4/28/22 12:54, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >> To clarify: >> >> "low code" is just a modern term for what LC's been providing the whole >> time. >> >> "no code" is what Appli does, an adjacent but very different market for >> those whose needs can be satisfied without the nuance scripting provides. >> > > I think what I saw in Mark's keynote is the ability in appli do some > coding, just not to any extent the deep capabilities of LiveCode. Thus > "low code". From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Apr 28 17:02:22 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 14:02:22 -0700 Subject: Native Android input field In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: J. Landman Gay wrote: > In the after-party that Richard set up on the last day of the > conference, the question came up whether the native Android > field widget would scroll. The answer is, yes it does. > > There is one little glitch. If the widget is editable, and your > finger lifts inside the widget after scrolling, the keyboard pops > up. If you end the scroll while your finger is outside the > field area, it does not. > > This doesn't happen if the field is not editable. Also in either case, > the scroll isn't as smooth as it is when constructed in a script. > > Good find with that bug report. Thanks for submitting it. The circumstance I introduced in the chat was something far more common: just scrolling a field, a normal non-editable LC field used to display text. Doing that without jittery motion and with appropriate scroll-end indication in LiveCode for mobile requires following the steps in this tutorial: https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4069/l/94412-creating-a-native-scroller-to-scroll-a-field Seems pretty fiddly just to scroll a field. Makes me wonder how many of us would be using LC if those steps were required to have normal scrolling in our desktop apps when we were first considering this platform. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Apr 28 17:03:52 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 21:03:52 +0000 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: <378fd701-439d-6447-3743-b93652a85d4d@fourthworld.com> References: <28c5f8d6-e034-ee63-1565-b72b25adadc7@sonic.net> <378fd701-439d-6447-3743-b93652a85d4d@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <764776F4-9C13-40E1-ACF0-6B52AA528A19@iotecdigital.com> Well I downloaded the Appli app. The starting level is $45 / month, and storage is pretty sparse, which I can pay more for later. Doesn't look cost effective for me when I could just create my own web portal. Bob S > On Apr 28, 2022, at 13:58 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > Yes, but that's something of an "expert feature" in that intended market, much like coding externals for LC. > > In terms of general product flavor and intent, LC is "low code" and Appli is "no code". > > Given the clear mission for each, they seem good compliments. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Apr 28 20:08:52 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 19:08:52 -0500 Subject: Native Android input field In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <18072a62220.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Yes, that would be ideal. Let's see what the Great Reimagining brings. In the chat I remember saying I couldn't use the widget but I couldn't remember why. The unexpected keyboard display was the reason. And unlike a normal LC field, you can't set it to allow copying without also allowing editing. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On April 28, 2022 4:04:31 PM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > The circumstance I introduced in the chat was something far more common: > just scrolling a field, a normal non-editable LC field used to display text. From mark at canelasoftware.com Thu Apr 28 20:46:32 2022 From: mark at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 17:46:32 -0700 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: <764776F4-9C13-40E1-ACF0-6B52AA528A19@iotecdigital.com> References: <28c5f8d6-e034-ee63-1565-b72b25adadc7@sonic.net> <378fd701-439d-6447-3743-b93652a85d4d@fourthworld.com> <764776F4-9C13-40E1-ACF0-6B52AA528A19@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <4910EBCA-6E93-4ECA-8E3C-28E2E2242975@canelasoftware.com> Hi Everyone, We should have Appli forums in the coming week or so. I’ll try to keep Appli-related responses to a minimum. Appli comes in two parts. Part 1 - Appli IDE runs as a desktop app that you can download from appli.io. Interesting note: We designed the IDE to work on desktops and tablets like iPads. Pat 2 - Appli Player is available from Google Play and iOS app stores. Appli makes native apps only. They feel like web apps because they use the cloud for distribution and data storage. We are looking to support the web export feature in LC 10 when it is feasible to do so. No-code and low-code These are fun words that do not mean much. I said they are great buzz words to have on hand in my conference presentation. :) We have wizards that can do complex actions with a few clicks. We also have a list of actions that you can drag onto a workflow that effectively replaces typing code. The killer feature is that you can use actual LiveCode scripts in Appli. Canela and LiveCode have partnered to bring a different type of tool for app makers to market. Our collaboration aims to get more people into the LiveCode community. We believe that a larger community will benefit everyone. This summer, we will execute a marketing plan for people outside our beloved LC community to try Appli. We will do our best to excite people to take full advantage of their license features. One of those features is access to the LC IDE (no standalone building). Our mutual hope is that new people will try Appli and eventually fall in love with LiveCode. These developers will see Appli, LiveCloud, and LiveCode as a suite as tools to help them make apps. Licensing Appli means you are also financially supporting LiveCode. We do not want to generate any uncomfortable friction by providing an alternative method for making apps. Since day one of its existence, we have been LiveCode developers and, long before, with MetaCard. Appli is made 100% in LiveCode. It is a comprehensive example of a complex solution made in LiveCode. The LiveCode team has plans to express the goals of our suite soon. When they announce, I am confident they will clearly articulate the value proposition. If anyone has Appli questions, please feel free to write us at hello at appli.io. -Mark Talluto > On Apr 28, 2022, at 2:03 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > Well I downloaded the Appli app. The starting level is $45 / month, and storage is pretty sparse, which I can pay more for later. Doesn't look cost effective for me when I could just create my own web portal. > > Bob S > > >> On Apr 28, 2022, at 13:58 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Yes, but that's something of an "expert feature" in that intended market, much like coding externals for LC. >> >> In terms of general product flavor and intent, LC is "low code" and Appli is "no code". >> >> Given the clear mission for each, they seem good compliments. >> >> -- >> Richard Gaskin >> Fourth World Systems > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Thu Apr 28 23:25:26 2022 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 13:25:26 +1000 Subject: Pulldownmenu button bug on Windows Message-ID: I have a pulldown menu button which has a menupick script and also a mouseLeave script. On a Mac, when a user brings up the menu and drags the mouse down to select a menu item (leaving the button rect but within the pulldown menu), the menupick handler is invoked, and then the mouseleave handler is called. This is what I expected. However on Windows, the mouseleave script is called immediately the mouse leaves the button while the user is still in the process of making the selection, and then menupick is called if the user actually makes the selection. Which means standalones behave quite differently (in my app, the menupick did something to a selection in a field, and mouseleave did something else to the selection: the order is thus critical). They can’t both be right, so certainly one is a bug. The Mac order is IMO correct since the pulldown menu has been started by the user so the app should be in a modal state until the menu selection is resolved. Neville From mkoob at rogers.com Fri Apr 29 08:45:33 2022 From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 08:45:33 -0400 Subject: LC 9.6.7 export snapshot from a player object seems to fail on Windows (10) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Paul I just tried the same thing and got the same result. It works on Mac, not on Windows. I also tried exporting the image as a file to see if that made any difference. export snapshot from rect tRect of player "mediaConvert" of stack "libHrAPI" to file [filepath/filename.png] as PNG I got an image file but it is the same as what you see in the image object on the stack — an image of a white rect inside the player boarder. So it looks like it is a bug. The snapshot does create a proper png it just doesn’t grab the current video image inside the player it just gets a white rect. Martin > On Apr 27, 2022, at 6:21 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > > I am executing the following 2 lines of code: > > export snapshot from rect tRect of player "mediaConvert" of stack "libHrAPI" to tImage as PNG > put tImage into img "imageConvert" of stack "libHrAPI" > > Prior to the export the player has a video load and has the currentTime set to a particular frame, and I can see in the stack that the player is showing the correct frame is visible. > I can also see that the image "imageConvert" is also visible, but empty > > After the Export Snapshot is executed, it looks like tImage contains valid PNG data, although I can not tell if it is the correct image > After the Put statement, the image "imageConvert" is set to a white rectangle with a little bit of the player border on the left and top. It is the same size as the player where as the empty image I started with was larger. > > This is with LC 9.6.7 on Windows 10. This code works on macOS. Does anyone know if there is a known Windows bug with export a snapshot form a player and any work around? > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From craig at starfirelighting.com Fri Apr 29 09:07:31 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 09:07:31 -0400 Subject: Pulldownmenu button bug on Windows In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4B9AAEFF-E7EB-49D0-809A-EE1B924737CD@starfirelighting.com> Hi. I will say again that the format of the forum is so much easier to work with. I made a pulldown and two fields, with these two handlers in the button script: on menuPick pItemName put pItemname into fld 1 end menuPick on mouseleave put random(999) into fld 2 end mouseleave On my Mac ( I will never voluntarily use Windows) the menuItem is always nicely placed into fld 1 after being selected. A random number appears in fld 2 nicely as well. The mouseLeave handler fires immediately if I just enter the button rect and leave it without ever clicking the mouse to invoke a menu. Makes sense. What I found interesting is that when the cursor is below the actual button, "within" the pulldown menu space, that handler fires after an ordinary menu selection,. It is as if the mouse has “left” the button rect by virtue of the menu “space” disappearing after a selection is made. Either that or LC “sees” the entirety of the button and the menu space as its rect. Whatever. But that is how the Mac works. I apologize, but I see that I have been of no help to you at all. Craig > On Apr 28, 2022, at 11:25 PM, Neville Smythe via use-livecode wrote: > > I have a pulldown menu button which has a menupick script and also a mouseLeave script. > > On a Mac, when a user brings up the menu and drags the mouse down to select a menu item (leaving the button rect but within the pulldown menu), the menupick handler is invoked, and then the mouseleave handler is called. This is what I expected. > > However on Windows, the mouseleave script is called immediately the mouse leaves the button while the user is still in the process of making the selection, and then menupick is called if the user actually makes the selection. > > Which means standalones behave quite differently (in my app, the menupick did something to a selection in a field, and mouseleave did something else to the selection: the order is thus critical). > > They can’t both be right, so certainly one is a bug. The Mac order is IMO correct since the pulldown menu has been started by the user so the app should be in a modal state until the menu selection is resolved. > > Neville > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Fri Apr 29 12:25:51 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 12:25:51 -0400 Subject: LC 9.6.7 export snapshot from a player object seems to fail on Windows (10) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <15163895-9318-8a50-01f7-8ea08387f1fe@researchware.com> Martin, Thank you for confirming. I have filed a bug with Livecode: https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23694 On 4/29/2022 8:45 AM, Martin Koob wrote: > Hi Paul > > I just tried the same thing and got the same result. It works on Mac, not on Windows. > > I also tried exporting the image as a file to see if that made any difference. > > export snapshot from rect tRect of player "mediaConvert" of stack "libHrAPI" to file [filepath/filename.png] as PNG > > I got an image file but it is the same as what you see in the image object on the stack an image of a white rect inside the player boarder. > > So it looks like it is a bug. The snapshot does create a proper png it just doesnt grab the current video image inside the player it just gets a white rect. > > Martin > >> On Apr 27, 2022, at 6:21 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: >> >> I am executing the following 2 lines of code: >> >> export snapshot from rect tRect of player "mediaConvert" of stack "libHrAPI" to tImage as PNG >> put tImage into img "imageConvert" of stack "libHrAPI" >> >> Prior to the export the player has a video load and has the currentTime set to a particular frame, and I can see in the stack that the player is showing the correct frame is visible. >> I can also see that the image "imageConvert" is also visible, but empty >> >> After the Export Snapshot is executed, it looks like tImage contains valid PNG data, although I can not tell if it is the correct image >> After the Put statement, the image "imageConvert" is set to a white rectangle with a little bit of the player border on the left and top. It is the same size as the player where as the empty image I started with was larger. >> >> This is with LC 9.6.7 on Windows 10. This code works on macOS. Does anyone know if there is a known Windows bug with export a snapshot form a player and any work around? >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Apr 29 13:51:53 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 17:51:53 +0000 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: <4910EBCA-6E93-4ECA-8E3C-28E2E2242975@canelasoftware.com> References: <28c5f8d6-e034-ee63-1565-b72b25adadc7@sonic.net> <378fd701-439d-6447-3743-b93652a85d4d@fourthworld.com> <764776F4-9C13-40E1-ACF0-6B52AA528A19@iotecdigital.com> <4910EBCA-6E93-4ECA-8E3C-28E2E2242975@canelasoftware.com> Message-ID: <2E440010-19A3-46D7-9445-A6EB84CA309C@iotecdigital.com> Thanks for the Clarification Mark. I'm curious, is there a way to connect to data sources other then the Appli cloud storage? I ask because this was looking like a really good way to port a reduced functionality version of my Forms Generator to some kind of web portal without actually having to develop the web side of things. If I could demonstrate the ability to generate signable PDFs, I might be able to convince my employer to sign up for this. Bob S > On Apr 28, 2022, at 17:46 , Mark Talluto via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Everyone, > > We should have Appli forums in the coming week or so. I’ll try to keep Appli-related responses to a minimum. > > Appli comes in two parts. > Part 1 - Appli IDE runs as a desktop app that you can download from appli.io. Interesting note: We designed the IDE to work on desktops and tablets like iPads. > > Pat 2 - Appli Player is available from Google Play and iOS app stores. > > Appli makes native apps only. They feel like web apps because they use the cloud for distribution and data storage. We are looking to support the web export feature in LC 10 when it is feasible to do so. > > No-code and low-code > These are fun words that do not mean much. I said they are great buzz words to have on hand in my conference presentation. :) > > We have wizards that can do complex actions with a few clicks. We also have a list of actions that you can drag onto a workflow that effectively replaces typing code. The killer feature is that you can use actual LiveCode scripts in Appli. > > Canela and LiveCode have partnered to bring a different type of tool for app makers to market. Our collaboration aims to get more people into the LiveCode community. We believe that a larger community will benefit everyone. This summer, we will execute a marketing plan for people outside our beloved LC community to try Appli. We will do our best to excite people to take full advantage of their license features. One of those features is access to the LC IDE (no standalone building). > > Our mutual hope is that new people will try Appli and eventually fall in love with LiveCode. These developers will see Appli, LiveCloud, and LiveCode as a suite as tools to help them make apps. > > Licensing Appli means you are also financially supporting LiveCode. We do not want to generate any uncomfortable friction by providing an alternative method for making apps. Since day one of its existence, we have been LiveCode developers and, long before, with MetaCard. Appli is made 100% in LiveCode. It is a comprehensive example of a complex solution made in LiveCode. > > The LiveCode team has plans to express the goals of our suite soon. When they announce, I am confident they will clearly articulate the value proposition. > > If anyone has Appli questions, please feel free to write us at hello at appli.io. > > -Mark Talluto > >> On Apr 28, 2022, at 2:03 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Well I downloaded the Appli app. The starting level is $45 / month, and storage is pretty sparse, which I can pay more for later. Doesn't look cost effective for me when I could just create my own web portal. >> >> Bob S >> >> >>> On Apr 28, 2022, at 13:58 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> Yes, but that's something of an "expert feature" in that intended market, much like coding externals for LC. >>> >>> In terms of general product flavor and intent, LC is "low code" and Appli is "no code". >>> >>> Given the clear mission for each, they seem good compliments. >>> >>> -- >>> Richard Gaskin >>> Fourth World Systems >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Fri Apr 29 14:27:09 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 14:27:09 -0400 Subject: LC 9.6.7 export snapshot from a player object seems to fail on Windows (10) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6904ea72-7dc5-81dd-233d-00cf23793896@researchware.com> There are apparently no work-arounds for the failure of this version of the export snapshot on Windows 10/11 I've tried:     -- method that does not work on Windows, but works on macOS with player hidden [A REQUIREMENT]     put the rect of player "myPlayer" into tRect     export snapshot from rect tRect of player "myPlayer" to tImage as PNG     put tImage into img "myImage"     -- trying alt method #1 [FAILS LIKE ABOVE]     export snapshot from player "myPlayer" to tImage as PNG     put tImage into img "myImage"     -- trying alt method #2 [TAKES A SNAPSHOT OF THE WINDOWS SCREEN]     put the rect of player "myPlayer" into tRect     export snapshot from rect tRect to tImage as PNG     put tImage into img "myImage"     -- trying alt method #3 [WORKS ONLY IF VISIBLE ON SCREEN WITH NOTHING ON TOP (no overlapping windows)] This also fails (with an execution error) if the user has moved the window so the player is off-screen!     put the rect of player "myPlayer" into tRect     export snapshot from rect tRect of window (the windowID of this stack) to tImage as PNG     put tImage into img "myImage" As I need to grab multiple specific frames of video as a series of images behind the scenes for any analysis/report, I can not have the player visible while the user is running the analysis. Current the code hides the player controller. The player is on a non-visible stack and the video is associated with that hidden player. A loop then sets the currentTime of the player to various points based on clips provided by the researcher and takes an image of each frame that currentTime is set to. This works on macOS and in some prior versions of LC and/or Windows, worked on Windows as well and now in LC 9.6.7 on WIn 10/11 it does not. On 4/27/2022 6:21 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > I am executing the following 2 lines of code: > >               export snapshot from rect tRect of player "mediaConvert" > of stack "libHrAPI" to tImage as PNG >               put tImage into img "imageConvert" of stack "libHrAPI" > > Prior to the export the player has a video load and has the > currentTime set to a particular frame, and I can see in the stack that > the player is showing the correct frame is visible. > I can also see that the image "imageConvert" is also visible, but empty > > After the Export Snapshot is executed, it looks like tImage contains > valid PNG data, although I can not tell if it is the correct image > After the Put statement, the image "imageConvert" is set to a white > rectangle with a little bit of the player border on the left and top. > It is the same size as the player where as the empty image I started > with was larger. > > This is with LC 9.6.7 on Windows 10. This code works on macOS. Does > anyone know if there is a known Windows bug with export a snapshot > form a player and any work around? > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mark at canelasoftware.com Fri Apr 29 15:46:44 2022 From: mark at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 12:46:44 -0700 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: <2E440010-19A3-46D7-9445-A6EB84CA309C@iotecdigital.com> References: <28c5f8d6-e034-ee63-1565-b72b25adadc7@sonic.net> <378fd701-439d-6447-3743-b93652a85d4d@fourthworld.com> <764776F4-9C13-40E1-ACF0-6B52AA528A19@iotecdigital.com> <4910EBCA-6E93-4ECA-8E3C-28E2E2242975@canelasoftware.com> <2E440010-19A3-46D7-9445-A6EB84CA309C@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Hi Bob, I am happy to say that Richard Gaskin is our first 3rd party provider. He wants to make connections for many things external. Databases is top on the list the last time we spoke. I’ll ping him to chime in with more details. Best regards, Mark Talluto appli.io livecloud.io nursenotes.net canelasoftware.com > On Apr 29, 2022, at 10:51 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > Thanks for the Clarification Mark. I'm curious, is there a way to connect to data sources other then the Appli cloud storage? I ask because this was looking like a really good way to port a reduced functionality version of my Forms Generator to some kind of web portal without actually having to develop the web side of things. If I could demonstrate the ability to generate signable PDFs, I might be able to convince my employer to sign up for this. > > Bob S From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat Apr 30 13:37:42 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2022 10:37:42 -0700 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8ffac9ac-7b88-4fee-cf39-d526a18b90bd@fourthworld.com> Mark Talluto wrote: > I am happy to say that Richard Gaskin is our first 3rd party provider. > He wants to make connections for many things external. Databases is > top on the list the last time we spoke. Ill ping him to chime in with > more details. Thank you, Mark. The current vision for the plugin is to provide at least basic CRUD operations for SQL DBs, which would of course mean MySQL with postgreSQL and MariaDB coming along for the ride. Some form of this could become an LC tool as well as an Appli component. The opportunity is obvious: it's nice to have a convenient UI for accessing organizational data ponds. The challenges are two-fold: providing consistent access across what may be a wide range of DB API styles depending on IT habits within prospective orgs, and authentication methods those orgs support. DB Access: The challenge with this is identifying applicable use cases. Where orgs using Appli or LiveCode may allow internal direct access to DBs, this is a relatively simple matter, as the socket comms for those are consistent. But most orgs use HTTP-based APIs for DB operations. This is popular even for internal use, and usually consider necessary for all connections from the open Internet. Over the coming months we'll be discussing needs with prospective customers to identify API patterns to see where we can provide a UI that allows them to easily drop in URLs needed for access. It may be that we'll have to offer a setup service to get less technically-inclined customers going, but some orgs may not provide external API access for internal APIs. We'll see how that unfolds as we learn more about use cases. Authentication: Where API authentication is done through httpBasic or OAuth2, LC's excellent support for both makes those straightforward. But many larger orgs use LDAP for authentication. So far I've not seen an LDAP library for LC, and having reviewed the LDAP specs it seems a task worth thinking about very carefully before committing to delivery. If any of you know of an LDAP authentication library for LC Script that would be very helpful. More to come as research on this unfolds... -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From panos.merakos at livecode.com Fri Apr 1 10:10:41 2022 From: panos.merakos at livecode.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2022 17:10:41 +0300 Subject: [ANN] Release 9.6.7 Message-ID: Dear list members, We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 9.6.7. You can find more details on the bug fixes and improvements of this new release here: https://livecode.com/9-6-7-stable-maintenance-release/ You can find the release in your LiveCode account area or get it via the automatic updater. Enjoy! Kind regards The LiveCode Team -- From mail at richard-hillen.de Fri Apr 1 12:07:54 2022 From: mail at richard-hillen.de (Hillen Richard) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2022 18:07:54 +0200 Subject: How to Do: Download per http In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Helo Paul, It works! Thank you! Richard. > > > On 3/31/2022 3:00 PM, Hillen Richard via use-livecode wrote: >> Hello, >> >> My Mac is by usb connected to an iPhone, on which is running the data-aggregator Phybox.app and aggregates the sensor-data of the internal acceleration-sensor. >> >> On Mac, when I write into the Safari address bar >> "http://192.168.178.66/export?format=1?, >> I receive the sampled data in a .xls-file by download from the iPhone-app. >> >> I would like to download this file by LiveCode. But I have no plan, how to do it. >> >> May you help? I am very grateful for tips. >> >> Richard. >> > > I think you can do: > > put URL "http://192.168.178.66/export?format=1" into URL > ("binfile:"&tLocalFile) -- where the variable tLocalFile contains the > file path to a new .xls file, such as > "/Users/Fred/Documents/mySensorData.xls" From curry at pair.com Fri Apr 1 12:24:00 2022 From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2022 12:24:00 -0400 Subject: [ANN] Release 9.6.7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: panos: > You can find more details on the bug fixes and improvements > of this new release here: > https://livecode.com/9-6-7-stable-maintenance-release/ Nice! Thanks for these fixes.... Best wishes, Curry Kenworthy WordLib: Import MS Word and OpenOffice files in LiveCode! "Dominate documents with WordLib and LC" http://livecodeaddons.com/wordlib.html Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development "Passion for Elegant and Efficient Code" http://livecodeconsulting.com/ From tom at makeshyft.com Sat Apr 2 00:42:29 2022 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2022 00:42:29 -0400 Subject: Debugger issues in 9.6.7 (unfolding array variables) Message-ID: Hi Folks, Today I upgraded my windows 10 LC installation to 9.6.7 and I'm finding I cannot unfold arrays while tracing code. I click and nothing happens. Anyone else? -- Tom Glod Founder & Developer @ MakeShyft R.D.A Build Software with AppStarterStack for Livecode Save Time with The Time Saver's Toolbox From paul at researchware.com Sat Apr 2 08:17:01 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2022 08:17:01 -0400 Subject: Debugger issues in 9.6.7 (unfolding array variables) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4f90c10a-0409-9e2f-2686-406a98bbfa51@researchware.com> On 4/2/2022 12:42 AM, Tom Glod via use-livecode wrote: > Hi Folks, > > Today I upgraded my windows 10 LC installation to 9.6.7 > and I'm finding I cannot unfold arrays while tracing code. > I click and nothing happens. > Anyone else? > I'm on Windows 10 (Dell AMD Ryzen 5) and just tested LC 9.6.7 STABLE with the following button script: on mouseUp pMouseButton   local tArray   put "A" into tArray[1]   put "B" into tArray[2]   put "C" into tArray[3]   --   wait 0 with messages end mouseUp With a debug point on the Wait statement. Clicking the button, opens the debugger and I can inspect the array, seeing all 3 elements, so it's working here for me. From tom at makeshyft.com Sat Apr 2 12:05:17 2022 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2022 12:05:17 -0400 Subject: Debugger issues in 9.6.7 (unfolding array variables) In-Reply-To: <4f90c10a-0409-9e2f-2686-406a98bbfa51@researchware.com> References: <4f90c10a-0409-9e2f-2686-406a98bbfa51@researchware.com> Message-ID: Thanks Paul. I'm going to work on creating a recipe. On Sat, Apr 2, 2022 at 8:18 AM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 4/2/2022 12:42 AM, Tom Glod via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Folks, > > > > Today I upgraded my windows 10 LC installation to 9.6.7 > > and I'm finding I cannot unfold arrays while tracing code. > > I click and nothing happens. > > Anyone else? > > > > I'm on Windows 10 (Dell AMD Ryzen 5) and just tested LC 9.6.7 STABLE > with the following button script: > on mouseUp pMouseButton > local tArray > put "A" into tArray[1] > put "B" into tArray[2] > put "C" into tArray[3] > -- > wait 0 with messages > end mouseUp > > With a debug point on the Wait statement. Clicking the button, opens the > debugger and I can inspect the array, seeing all 3 elements, so it's > working here for me. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Mon Apr 4 08:08:02 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 14:08:02 +0200 Subject: Hey Lurkers: Anyone still using LC 6.7? (Regulars too) In-Reply-To: <4FBE1931-F83B-401B-A895-0BDBF9B6DE19@gmail.com> References: <9a3bec49-4ffb-0078-27c7-4a3d60a1951c@pair.com> <4FBE1931-F83B-401B-A895-0BDBF9B6DE19@gmail.com> Message-ID: <70269A05-3645-4FC6-8E1D-F53BC1AB8052@m-r-d.de> > Am 10.03.2022 um 20:39 schrieb doc hawk via use-livecode : > > Gosh, I never got *any* version of 6 to work well enough to use! > Really? I've updated old and created new apps with different versions of LC6 w/o any big problems. The apps do db stuff (MSSQL and MySQL), FTP uploads/downloads, dp post/get requests and we used LC Server 6 on our webserver for several tasks e.g form processing, db communication, handling post requests and others. That all worked fine here. As soon as a new version, even DP, comes out and if time allows, i try to create at least our in-house apps with the new version. Firstly this helps to find bugs in the new version, at least in the areas our apps are using, and secondly, it ensures also that our apps can also be created with that new version. That above is, of course, not to say that others did not have problems with LC6. Just wanted to share my experience with 6 Matthias > :) > > There’s still switches in my code for 5, but there are enough other uses of later features of 7+ that it’s a non-issue. > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From benr_mc at cogapp.com Mon Apr 4 09:26:58 2022 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 14:26:58 +0100 Subject: Can't get jsonToArray in standalones ? Message-ID: Building a standalone that uses jsonToArray. Works fine in the IDE. If I use "search for required inclusions" when building the standaline, then when the script calls jsonToArray it throws error 219 (Function: error in function handler). If I use "select inclusions", and check "JSON Library", then it crashes. Interestingly, if I *uncheck* "JSON Library" from the inclusions, then it also crashes! (I expected it would throw error 219.) This is the same on LC 9.6.6 and 9.6.7; and (at least the crash) same on both Mac and Windows. My best guess is that I need to have something else checked in the inclusions - any suggestions? TIA, Ben From merakosp at gmail.com Mon Apr 4 10:08:48 2022 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis m) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 17:08:48 +0300 Subject: Can't get jsonToArray in standalones ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Ben, You need to check megJSON. The JSON Library inclusion is for JSONImport and JSONExport handlers. Cheers, Panos On Mon, 4 Apr 2022, 16:28 Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode, < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Building a standalone that uses jsonToArray. > > Works fine in the IDE. > > If I use "search for required inclusions" when building the standaline, > then > when the script calls jsonToArray it throws error 219 (Function: error in > function handler). > > If I use "select inclusions", and check "JSON Library", then it crashes. > > Interestingly, if I *uncheck* "JSON Library" from the inclusions, then it > also > crashes! (I expected it would throw error 219.) > > This is the same on LC 9.6.6 and 9.6.7; and (at least the crash) same on > both > Mac and Windows. > > My best guess is that I need to have something else checked in the > inclusions > - any suggestions? > > TIA, > > Ben > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From merakosp at gmail.com Mon Apr 4 10:09:40 2022 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis m) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 17:09:40 +0300 Subject: Can't get jsonToArray in standalones ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I mean mergJSON, not megJSON :) Cheers, Panos On Mon, 4 Apr 2022, 17:08 panagiotis m, wrote: > Hello Ben, > > You need to check megJSON. > > The JSON Library inclusion is for JSONImport and JSONExport handlers. > > Cheers, > Panos > > On Mon, 4 Apr 2022, 16:28 Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode, < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Building a standalone that uses jsonToArray. >> >> Works fine in the IDE. >> >> If I use "search for required inclusions" when building the standaline, >> then >> when the script calls jsonToArray it throws error 219 (Function: error in >> function handler). >> >> If I use "select inclusions", and check "JSON Library", then it crashes. >> >> Interestingly, if I *uncheck* "JSON Library" from the inclusions, then it >> also >> crashes! (I expected it would throw error 219.) >> >> This is the same on LC 9.6.6 and 9.6.7; and (at least the crash) same on >> both >> Mac and Windows. >> >> My best guess is that I need to have something else checked in the >> inclusions >> - any suggestions? >> >> TIA, >> >> Ben >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Mon Apr 4 10:15:01 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 16:15:01 +0200 Subject: Can't get jsonToArray in standalones ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <346AD107-68C8-41E4-9BE7-34760F796496@m-r-d.de> Panos, is there a reason why mergJSON is not listed in the dictionary anymore in LC 9.6.6,9.6.7, 10DDP2, 10DP3? Matthias > Am 04.04.2022 um 16:08 schrieb panagiotis m via use-livecode : > > Hello Ben, > > You need to check megJSON. > > The JSON Library inclusion is for JSONImport and JSONExport handlers. > > Cheers, > Panos > > On Mon, 4 Apr 2022, 16:28 Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode, < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Building a standalone that uses jsonToArray. >> >> Works fine in the IDE. >> >> If I use "search for required inclusions" when building the standaline, >> then >> when the script calls jsonToArray it throws error 219 (Function: error in >> function handler). >> >> If I use "select inclusions", and check "JSON Library", then it crashes. >> >> Interestingly, if I *uncheck* "JSON Library" from the inclusions, then it >> also >> crashes! (I expected it would throw error 219.) >> >> This is the same on LC 9.6.6 and 9.6.7; and (at least the crash) same on >> both >> Mac and Windows. >> >> My best guess is that I need to have something else checked in the >> inclusions >> - any suggestions? >> >> TIA, >> >> Ben >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From harrison at all-auctions.com Mon Apr 4 11:11:09 2022 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 11:11:09 -0400 Subject: Hey Lurkers: Anyone still using LC 6.7? (Regulars too) In-Reply-To: <70269A05-3645-4FC6-8E1D-F53BC1AB8052@m-r-d.de> References: <9a3bec49-4ffb-0078-27c7-4a3d60a1951c@pair.com> <4FBE1931-F83B-401B-A895-0BDBF9B6DE19@gmail.com> <70269A05-3645-4FC6-8E1D-F53BC1AB8052@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <312AF7AF-ABE8-4F22-8CC2-512439C5DD0D@all-auctions.com> Ah, the old days of LC 6.7 when LiveCode was fast. How much I miss that! Hopefully our new compiler when it comes out will make me feel that LC 6.7 was really slow. Thanks for the walk down memory lane! Rick From klaus at major-k.de Mon Apr 4 11:45:32 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 17:45:32 +0200 Subject: launch tFile with tApp Message-ID: <2ED289C6-969A-46AE-9013-CD3AD97B3EE0@major-k.de> Hi friends, macOS 10.3, LC 9.6.7 I have e.g. a MP3 file and want to open it with "Quicktime Player.app": ... ## tPrompt contains a localized string, of course answer file tPrompt with specialfolderpath("apps") with type "|app|" put it into tApp ## I select QTPLayer.app if the result = "cancel" then exit to top end if ## tDatei holds the complete path to the MP3 ## tApp the path to QTPlayer.app launch tDatei with tApp put the result ... It will open the MP3 with QTPlayer as desired BUT it also opens the file with "iTunes/Music" additionally!? And I don't want that! :-D The result is EMPTY. Bug or feature? And can I avoid to also open the file with "Music"? Thanks in advance! Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From klaus at major-k.de Mon Apr 4 12:06:24 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 18:06:24 +0200 Subject: launch tFile with tApp In-Reply-To: <2ED289C6-969A-46AE-9013-CD3AD97B3EE0@major-k.de> References: <2ED289C6-969A-46AE-9013-CD3AD97B3EE0@major-k.de> Message-ID: <2164F724-6816-4589-82FC-C87BCE0ED887@major-k.de> > Am 04.04.2022 um 17:45 schrieb Klaus major-k : > > Hi friends, > > macOS 10.3, LC 9.6.7 sorry, I mean macOS 12.3 > > I have e.g. a MP3 file and want to open it with "Quicktime Player.app": > ... > ## tPrompt contains a localized string, of course > answer file tPrompt with specialfolderpath("apps") with type "|app|" > put it into tApp > ## I select QTPLayer.app > if the result = "cancel" then > exit to top > end if > ## tDatei holds the complete path to the MP3 > ## tApp the path to QTPlayer.app > launch tDatei with tApp > put the result > ... > > It will open the MP3 with QTPlayer as desired BUT > it also opens the file with "iTunes/Music" additionally!? > And I don't want that! :-D > > The result is EMPTY. > > Bug or feature? > And can I avoid to also open the file with "Music"? > > Thanks in advance! > > > Best > > Klaus > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > https://www.major-k.de/bass > klaus at major-k.de From klaus at major-k.de Mon Apr 4 12:10:05 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 18:10:05 +0200 Subject: launch file with app Message-ID: <4643D19B-7CC1-4F1C-A1AF-FEFE955B73CB@major-k.de> Hi friends, macOS 12.3, LC 9.6.7 I have e.g. a MP3 file and want to open it with "Quicktime Player.app": ... ## tPrompt contains a localized string, of course answer file tPrompt with specialfolderpath("apps") with type "|app|" put it into tApp ## I select QTPLayer.app if the result = "cancel" then exit to top end if ## tDatei holds the complete path to the MP3 ## tApp the path to QTPlayer.app launch tDatei with tApp put the result ... It will open the MP3 with QTPlayer as desired BUT it also opens the file with "iTunes/Music" additionally!? And I don't want that! :-D The result is EMPTY. Bug or feature? And can I avoid to also open the file with "Music"? Thanks in advance! Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From merakosp at gmail.com Mon Apr 4 13:03:18 2022 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis m) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 20:03:18 +0300 Subject: Can't get jsonToArray in standalones ? In-Reply-To: <346AD107-68C8-41E4-9BE7-34760F796496@m-r-d.de> References: <346AD107-68C8-41E4-9BE7-34760F796496@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: Hello Matthias, Hmm, this sounds like a bug. Thanks for spotting it and filing the report :) Kind regards, Panos On Mon, 4 Apr 2022, 17:15 matthias rebbe via use-livecode, < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Panos, > > is there a reason why mergJSON is not listed in the dictionary anymore in > LC 9.6.6,9.6.7, 10DDP2, 10DP3? > > Matthias > > > Am 04.04.2022 um 16:08 schrieb panagiotis m via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: > > > > Hello Ben, > > > > You need to check megJSON. > > > > The JSON Library inclusion is for JSONImport and JSONExport handlers. > > > > Cheers, > > Panos > > > > On Mon, 4 Apr 2022, 16:28 Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode, < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > >> Building a standalone that uses jsonToArray. > >> > >> Works fine in the IDE. > >> > >> If I use "search for required inclusions" when building the standaline, > >> then > >> when the script calls jsonToArray it throws error 219 (Function: error > in > >> function handler). > >> > >> If I use "select inclusions", and check "JSON Library", then it crashes. > >> > >> Interestingly, if I *uncheck* "JSON Library" from the inclusions, then > it > >> also > >> crashes! (I expected it would throw error 219.) > >> > >> This is the same on LC 9.6.6 and 9.6.7; and (at least the crash) same on > >> both > >> Mac and Windows. > >> > >> My best guess is that I need to have something else checked in the > >> inclusions > >> - any suggestions? > >> > >> TIA, > >> > >> Ben > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From keith.clarke at me.com Mon Apr 4 13:03:27 2022 From: keith.clarke at me.com (Keith Clarke) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 18:03:27 +0100 Subject: Tools & techniques for one-off consolidation of multiple 'similar' CSV files? Message-ID: <83272CB1-BDD0-4DAB-9F20-6BECAF92A18B@me.com> Hi folks, I need to consolidate a couple of hundred CSV files of varying sizes (dozens to hundreds of rows) and column structures (some shared columns but many unique), into a single superset dataset that comprises all data from all files. There are too many files and columns to attempt a manual process, so in I’ve been trying to achieve this with LiveCode - by iterating through the files to parse the column header rows into into row template and column mapping arrays used to build the combined table. However, I'm struggling to both compile the superset and render the results. I feel I may be designing a very complicated solution for a problem that has probably been solved before. I wonder if I’m missing a simpler method - with LiveCode or perhaps with Excel or ‘drag & drop’ into some kind of self-organising database GUI for SQLite, etc? Thanks in advance for any ideas. Best, Keith From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Mon Apr 4 13:29:23 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 13:29:23 -0400 Subject: Tools & techniques for one-off consolidation of multiple 'similar' CSV files? In-Reply-To: <83272CB1-BDD0-4DAB-9F20-6BECAF92A18B@me.com> References: <83272CB1-BDD0-4DAB-9F20-6BECAF92A18B@me.com> Message-ID: keith, are all the files structured the same way? are they all gathered in the same place? LC's big strength, IMHO, is text handling, so you're right in its wheelhouse. for the simplest example, let's assume that all the files have all the same column layout and they're all in the same folder. in that case, you would * grab the list of files in the folder * exclude files that shouldn't be included - maybe filter everything that doesn't have a .csv suffix. you could do this during the loop, below, or ahead of time. * iterate through the files by reading each one, and appending the contents to a variable/container (if you do this, don't forget to make sure that when you append each file, the last line ends with a line delimiter) * create a new file * save the variable/container to the file slightly more complicated: the layouts aren't the same you can either: * rearrange the columns upon reading the file or * use something like an sqlite db and create a record for each row, assigning the column in each record based on the column name in the csv file, or * use a LC array, using the column names in the file as the keys of the array. * create a new file * output the result of whichever of the three solutions you chose to the new file. both the easy and less-easy scenarios should take, i'm guessing, somewhere between twenty and fifty lines of code, and are easy to implement. if you have a couple hundred files, i think that the LC solution would be much faster and easier to write, test, and run than the drag-and-drop solution. On Mon, Apr 4, 2022 at 1:04 PM Keith Clarke via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi folks, > I need to consolidate a couple of hundred CSV files of varying sizes > (dozens to hundreds of rows) and column structures (some shared columns but > many unique), into a single superset dataset that comprises all data from > all files. > > There are too many files and columns to attempt a manual process, so in > I’ve been trying to achieve this with LiveCode - by iterating through the > files to parse the column header rows into into row template and column > mapping arrays used to build the combined table. However, I'm struggling to > both compile the superset and render the results. > > I feel I may be designing a very complicated solution for a problem that > has probably been solved before. I wonder if I’m missing a simpler method - > with LiveCode or perhaps with Excel or ‘drag & drop’ into some kind of > self-organising database GUI for SQLite, etc? > > Thanks in advance for any ideas. > Best, > Keith > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon Apr 4 13:37:46 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 17:37:46 +0000 Subject: Tools & techniques for one-off consolidation of multiple 'similar' CSV files? In-Reply-To: References: <83272CB1-BDD0-4DAB-9F20-6BECAF92A18B@me.com> Message-ID: <3BDE48DB-FBA8-4CE1-8374-7F644A6DE02A@iotecdigital.com> Does all the data need to be in a single table? Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 4, 2022, at 10:31, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > keith, > are all the files structured the same way? are they all gathered in the > same place? > LC's big strength, IMHO, is text handling, so you're right in its > wheelhouse. > for the simplest example, let's assume that all the files have all the same > column layout and they're all in the same folder. > in that case, you would > * grab the list of files in the folder > * exclude files that shouldn't be included - maybe filter everything > that doesn't have a .csv suffix. you could do this during the loop, below, > or ahead of time. > * iterate through the files by reading each one, and appending the contents > to a variable/container (if you do this, don't forget to make sure that > when you append each file, the last line ends with a line delimiter) > * create a new file > * save the variable/container to the file > > slightly more complicated: the layouts aren't the same > you can either: > * rearrange the columns upon reading the file or > * use something like an sqlite db and create a record for each row, > assigning the column in each record based on the column name in the csv > file, or > * use a LC array, using the column names in the file as the keys of the > array. > * create a new file > * output the result of whichever of the three solutions you chose to the > new file. > > both the easy and less-easy scenarios should take, i'm guessing, somewhere > between twenty and fifty lines of code, and are easy to implement. if you > have a couple hundred files, i think that the LC solution would be much > faster and easier to write, test, and run than the drag-and-drop solution. > >> On Mon, Apr 4, 2022 at 1:04 PM Keith Clarke via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >> Hi folks, >> I need to consolidate a couple of hundred CSV files of varying sizes >> (dozens to hundreds of rows) and column structures (some shared columns but >> many unique), into a single superset dataset that comprises all data from >> all files. >> >> There are too many files and columns to attempt a manual process, so in >> I’ve been trying to achieve this with LiveCode - by iterating through the >> files to parse the column header rows into into row template and column >> mapping arrays used to build the combined table. However, I'm struggling to >> both compile the superset and render the results. >> >> I feel I may be designing a very complicated solution for a problem that >> has probably been solved before. I wonder if I’m missing a simpler method - >> with LiveCode or perhaps with Excel or ‘drag & drop’ into some kind of >> self-organising database GUI for SQLite, etc? >> >> Thanks in advance for any ideas. >> Best, >> Keith >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From craig at starfirelighting.com Mon Apr 4 15:58:15 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 15:58:15 -0400 Subject: Tools & techniques for one-off consolidation of multiple 'similar' CSV files? In-Reply-To: <3BDE48DB-FBA8-4CE1-8374-7F644A6DE02A@iotecdigital.com> References: <83272CB1-BDD0-4DAB-9F20-6BECAF92A18B@me.com> <3BDE48DB-FBA8-4CE1-8374-7F644A6DE02A@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Hi. I rarely deal with the csv monster, but every time I have had to it all boiled down to the fact that a comma is a terrible character to use as a delimiter of ANY kind. Ideally it would be possible to simply replace every comma with a tab. The returns remain untouched. If that works, you are very lucky. Have you tried it? Craig > On Apr 4, 2022, at 1:37 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > Does all the data need to be in a single table? > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Apr 4, 2022, at 10:31, Mike Kerner via use-livecode > wrote: >> >> keith, >> are all the files structured the same way? are they all gathered in the >> same place? >> LC's big strength, IMHO, is text handling, so you're right in its >> wheelhouse. >> for the simplest example, let's assume that all the files have all the same >> column layout and they're all in the same folder. >> in that case, you would >> * grab the list of files in the folder >> * exclude files that shouldn't be included - maybe filter everything >> that doesn't have a .csv suffix. you could do this during the loop, below, >> or ahead of time. >> * iterate through the files by reading each one, and appending the contents >> to a variable/container (if you do this, don't forget to make sure that >> when you append each file, the last line ends with a line delimiter) >> * create a new file >> * save the variable/container to the file >> >> slightly more complicated: the layouts aren't the same >> you can either: >> * rearrange the columns upon reading the file or >> * use something like an sqlite db and create a record for each row, >> assigning the column in each record based on the column name in the csv >> file, or >> * use a LC array, using the column names in the file as the keys of the >> array. >> * create a new file >> * output the result of whichever of the three solutions you chose to the >> new file. >> >> both the easy and less-easy scenarios should take, i'm guessing, somewhere >> between twenty and fifty lines of code, and are easy to implement. if you >> have a couple hundred files, i think that the LC solution would be much >> faster and easier to write, test, and run than the drag-and-drop solution. >> >>> On Mon, Apr 4, 2022 at 1:04 PM Keith Clarke via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > wrote: >>> >>> Hi folks, >>> I need to consolidate a couple of hundred CSV files of varying sizes >>> (dozens to hundreds of rows) and column structures (some shared columns but >>> many unique), into a single superset dataset that comprises all data from >>> all files. >>> >>> There are too many files and columns to attempt a manual process, so in >>> I’ve been trying to achieve this with LiveCode - by iterating through the >>> files to parse the column header rows into into row template and column >>> mapping arrays used to build the combined table. However, I'm struggling to >>> both compile the superset and render the results. >>> >>> I feel I may be designing a very complicated solution for a problem that >>> has probably been solved before. I wonder if I’m missing a simpler method - >>> with LiveCode or perhaps with Excel or ‘drag & drop’ into some kind of >>> self-organising database GUI for SQLite, etc? >>> >>> Thanks in advance for any ideas. >>> Best, >>> Keith >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> >> -- >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >> On the second day, God created the oceans. >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> and did a little diving. >> And God said, "This is good." >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From benr_mc at cogapp.com Mon Apr 4 17:55:09 2022 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 22:55:09 +0100 Subject: Tools & techniques for one-off consolidation of multiple 'similar' CSV files? In-Reply-To: <83272CB1-BDD0-4DAB-9F20-6BECAF92A18B@me.com> References: <83272CB1-BDD0-4DAB-9F20-6BECAF92A18B@me.com> Message-ID: <7bf90327-00ca-8154-41a3-74e420c4ee0a@cogapp.com> Hi Keith, I feel your pain. I spend a lot of time doing this kind of manipulation. I generally avoid CSV, the format of the devil. If necessary I have a library that does a reasonable job of converting CSV to TSV, and run everything through that. Let's just assume for now that you've already done this.... My technique is this: - given that you've got a routine to iterate over a folder or tree of files - given that you can easily treat a row at a time, and on each row can easily work through a column at a time (e.g., this is TSV, you've set the itemdelimiter to tab) - given that the first row in each file gives the column names 1. Maintain an ordered list of output column names I'd probably keep it in two formats: a string with tab separated column names, an array mapping column name to index, and a variable giving the number of columns. 2. For each file, go through the list of column names (the 'items' of the first row). For each one, if it's not already in the master list of column names (e.g., it's not in the array) then append it with a tab to the end of the string, and add it to the array with the appropriate index. Also keep an array mapping column index in _this_ file to column index in the master file. 3. Then for each row after that, start with an empty array. For each non-empty item on the row, add it to this 'row array', with the key being the index in the master file corresponding to this item's index in this file. 4. When you've got to the end of the row, dump the data from this array; index from 1 to number-of-master-columns, adding a tab between each. Then add this to the master file accumulator. So code would look something like this local tMasterColumns -- tab delimited column names for output 'master' file local aColumnNameToMasterIndex -- array mapping column name to index in above local iNumMasterColumns -- number of items in the above two local tMasterFileData -- will accumulate the rows of data for the output file local aFileIndexToMasterIndex -- for each file, maps index of column in file to index in master file local aRowData -- for each row, we first move data into this array... local tOutRow -- ...then output it into this string local iFileNumCols -- number of columns in the current input file local iFileColInx, iMasterColInx -- keep track of input and output col indices repeat for each file... load it into tFileData.. etc -- map the columns of this file to the (growing) columns of the masterfile put 0 into iFileColInx repeat for each item x in line 1 of tFileData add 1 to iFileColInx get aColumnNameToMasterIndex[x] if it = empty then put tab & x after tMasterColumns add 1 to iNumMasterColumns put iNumMasterColumns into aColumnNameToMasterIndex[x] get iNumMasterColumns end if -- now it is the index of this column in the master file put it into aFileIndexToMasterIndex[iFileColInx] end repeat delete line 1 of tFileData put iFileColInx into iFileNumCols repeat for each line tRowData in tFileData -- get data from the row into the proper columns put empty into aRowData repeat with i = 1 to iFileNumCols -- number of columns in this file put aFileIndexToMasterIndex[i] into iMasterColInx put item i of tRowData into aRowData[iMasterColInx] end repeat -- now dump the row put empty into tOutRow repeat with i = 1 to iNumMasterColumns put aRowData[i] & tab after tOutRow end repeat put (char 1 to -2 of tOutRow) \ -- delete last tab & return after tMasterFileData end repeat end repeat -- for each file -- finally save tMasterColumns & return & tMasterFileData On 04/04/2022 18:03, Keith Clarke via use-livecode wrote: > Hi folks, > I need to consolidate a couple of hundred CSV files of varying sizes (dozens to hundreds of rows) and column structures (some shared columns but many unique), into a single superset dataset that comprises all data from all files. > > There are too many files and columns to attempt a manual process, so in Ive been trying to achieve this with LiveCode - by iterating through the files to parse the column header rows into into row template and column mapping arrays used to build the combined table. However, I'm struggling to both compile the superset and render the results. > > I feel I may be designing a very complicated solution for a problem that has probably been solved before. I wonder if Im missing a simpler method - with LiveCode or perhaps with Excel or drag & drop into some kind of self-organising database GUI for SQLite, etc? > > Thanks in advance for any ideas. > Best, > Keith > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon Apr 4 18:40:23 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 22:40:23 +0000 Subject: Tools & techniques for one-off consolidation of multiple 'similar' CSV files? In-Reply-To: <3BDE48DB-FBA8-4CE1-8374-7F644A6DE02A@iotecdigital.com> References: <83272CB1-BDD0-4DAB-9F20-6BECAF92A18B@me.com> <3BDE48DB-FBA8-4CE1-8374-7F644A6DE02A@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <734FF391-F6BC-40A8-8D97-7FB54B0F9685@iotecdigital.com> Okay no answer to my question so here is why I ask. SQL databases typically have a limit on how many columns you can have, and how many total bytes a record will take. If it is possible to import each CSV file as a separate table, that would be ideal. If not you need to make yourself aware of those limits, and if you are going to exceed them, then SQL is not the way to go. CSV format is OK if the text fields are enclosed in quotes, and the numeric fields can be enclosed in quotes or not, it doesn't matter. If text fields ARE enclosed in quotes, then Excel should be able to open it natively, even if there are commas in the field text, that is not as delimiters. Id the fields are NOT enclosed in quotes, and the field text DOES contain commas, you are essentially screwed. Bob S > On Apr 4, 2022, at 10:37 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > Does all the data need to be in a single table? > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Apr 4, 2022, at 10:31, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: >> >> keith, >> are all the files structured the same way? are they all gathered in the >> same place? >> LC's big strength, IMHO, is text handling, so you're right in its >> wheelhouse. >> for the simplest example, let's assume that all the files have all the same >> column layout and they're all in the same folder. >> in that case, you would >> * grab the list of files in the folder >> * exclude files that shouldn't be included - maybe filter everything >> that doesn't have a .csv suffix. you could do this during the loop, below, >> or ahead of time. >> * iterate through the files by reading each one, and appending the contents >> to a variable/container (if you do this, don't forget to make sure that >> when you append each file, the last line ends with a line delimiter) >> * create a new file >> * save the variable/container to the file >> >> slightly more complicated: the layouts aren't the same >> you can either: >> * rearrange the columns upon reading the file or >> * use something like an sqlite db and create a record for each row, >> assigning the column in each record based on the column name in the csv >> file, or >> * use a LC array, using the column names in the file as the keys of the >> array. >> * create a new file >> * output the result of whichever of the three solutions you chose to the >> new file. >> >> both the easy and less-easy scenarios should take, i'm guessing, somewhere >> between twenty and fifty lines of code, and are easy to implement. if you >> have a couple hundred files, i think that the LC solution would be much >> faster and easier to write, test, and run than the drag-and-drop solution. >> >>> On Mon, Apr 4, 2022 at 1:04 PM Keith Clarke via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>> Hi folks, >>> I need to consolidate a couple of hundred CSV files of varying sizes >>> (dozens to hundreds of rows) and column structures (some shared columns but >>> many unique), into a single superset dataset that comprises all data from >>> all files. >>> >>> There are too many files and columns to attempt a manual process, so in >>> I’ve been trying to achieve this with LiveCode - by iterating through the >>> files to parse the column header rows into into row template and column >>> mapping arrays used to build the combined table. However, I'm struggling to >>> both compile the superset and render the results. >>> >>> I feel I may be designing a very complicated solution for a problem that >>> has probably been solved before. I wonder if I’m missing a simpler method - >>> with LiveCode or perhaps with Excel or ‘drag & drop’ into some kind of >>> self-organising database GUI for SQLite, etc? >>> >>> Thanks in advance for any ideas. >>> Best, >>> Keith >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> >> -- >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >> On the second day, God created the oceans. >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> and did a little diving. >> And God said, "This is good." >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From curry at pair.com Mon Apr 4 22:49:27 2022 From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 22:49:27 -0400 Subject: Hey Lurkers: Anyone still using LC 6.7? (Regulars too) In-Reply-To: <312AF7AF-ABE8-4F22-8CC2-512439C5DD0D@all-auctions.com> References: <312AF7AF-ABE8-4F22-8CC2-512439C5DD0D@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: <45c224bf-375d-61e9-2b95-056df0f3fa63@pair.com> Me: > I would like to know if some people still need LC 6.7. BTW, I will support LC 6.7 in most addons for 2022-2023! A few users still need it. Plus I like to benchmark with it and perform some debugging there. (After mid-2023, I'll gradually start moving past 6.7.) Rick: > Ah, the old days of LC 6.7 when LiveCode was fast. > How much I miss that! Yes! But LC 9 is getting there with optimization lately. Once a version of LC 9/10 beats LC 6.7 on most tasks, that will become my new benchmark to beat. Matthias: > I've updated old and created new apps with different > versions of LC6 w/o any big problems. Same here, for me LC 6.7 was more stable than 5, 7, or 8. All of which I also used for projects. 9 is pretty good. Best wishes, Curry Kenworthy WordLib: Import MS Word and OpenOffice files in LiveCode! "Dominate documents with WordLib and LC" http://livecodeaddons.com/wordlib.html Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development "Passion for Elegant and Efficient Code" http://livecodeconsulting.com/ From dick.kriesel at mail.com Tue Apr 5 00:43:11 2022 From: dick.kriesel at mail.com (Dick Kriesel) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 21:43:11 -0700 Subject: Confirm sort container order... In-Reply-To: References: <4a411e1c-2f2d-662d-92f8-786c002e931a@researchware.com> <146ED04A-C712-4CCE-92B1-C203D5BE36F4@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: > On Mar 30, 2022, at 2:16 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > > sort lines of tText by word 1 of each & word 2 of each & word 3 of each Hi, Paul. The only feature missing is padding the first two words: sort tText by pad( word 1 of each ) & pad( word 2 of each ) & word 3 of each function pad tString put "" into item 1000 of tString replace comma with space in tString return char 1 to 1000 of tString Does that work for you? — Dick From klaus at major-k.de Tue Apr 5 05:07:30 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 11:07:30 +0200 Subject: launch file with app In-Reply-To: <4643D19B-7CC1-4F1C-A1AF-FEFE955B73CB@major-k.de> References: <4643D19B-7CC1-4F1C-A1AF-FEFE955B73CB@major-k.de> Message-ID: <220E18B6-5E07-431A-95A1-FF6274565810@major-k.de> Hi all, > Am 04.04.2022 um 18:10 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode : > > Hi friends, > > macOS 12.3, LC 9.6.7 > > I have e.g. a MP3 file and want to open it with "Quicktime Player.app": > ... > ## tPrompt contains a localized string, of course > answer file tPrompt with specialfolderpath("apps") with type "|app|" > put it into tApp > ## I select QTPLayer.app > if the result = "cancel" then > exit to top > end if > ## tDatei holds the complete path to the MP3 > ## tApp the path to QTPlayer.app > launch tDatei with tApp > put the result > ... > > It will open the MP3 with QTPlayer as desired BUT > it also opens the file with "iTunes/Music" additionally!? > And I don't want that! :-D > > The result is EMPTY. must have been a temporary "glitch" since it did not happen today. And a HTML file was opened with "TextEdit.app" as expected and did not start "Safari". But will keep an eye on this! 8-) Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From klaus at major-k.de Tue Apr 5 05:08:05 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 11:08:05 +0200 Subject: launch tFile with tApp In-Reply-To: <2ED289C6-969A-46AE-9013-CD3AD97B3EE0@major-k.de> References: <2ED289C6-969A-46AE-9013-CD3AD97B3EE0@major-k.de> Message-ID: Hi all, > Am 04.04.2022 um 18:10 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode : > > Hi friends, > > macOS 12.3, LC 9.6.7 > > I have e.g. a MP3 file and want to open it with "Quicktime Player.app": > ... > ## tPrompt contains a localized string, of course > answer file tPrompt with specialfolderpath("apps") with type "|app|" > put it into tApp > ## I select QTPLayer.app > if the result = "cancel" then > exit to top > end if > ## tDatei holds the complete path to the MP3 > ## tApp the path to QTPlayer.app > launch tDatei with tApp > put the result > ... > > It will open the MP3 with QTPlayer as desired BUT > it also opens the file with "iTunes/Music" additionally!? > And I don't want that! :-D > > The result is EMPTY. must have been a temporary "glitch" since it did not happen today. And a HTML file was opened with "TextEdit.app" as expected and did not start "Safari". But will keep an eye on this! 8-) Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From craig at starfirelighting.com Tue Apr 5 09:31:07 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 09:31:07 -0400 Subject: Confirm sort container order... In-Reply-To: References: <4a411e1c-2f2d-662d-92f8-786c002e931a@researchware.com> <146ED04A-C712-4CCE-92B1-C203D5BE36F4@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: Time to check the forum. Bernd has made a very significant contribution. https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=36893 > On Apr 5, 2022, at 12:43 AM, Dick Kriesel via use-livecode wrote: > > >> On Mar 30, 2022, at 2:16 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: >> >> sort lines of tText by word 1 of each & word 2 of each & word 3 of each > > Hi, Paul. > > The only feature missing is padding the first two words: > > sort tText by pad( word 1 of each ) & pad( word 2 of each ) & word 3 of each > > > function pad tString > put "" into item 1000 of tString > replace comma with space in tString > return char 1 to 1000 of tString > > > Does that work for you? > > — Dick > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Tue Apr 5 10:43:29 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 10:43:29 -0400 Subject: Confirm sort container order... In-Reply-To: References: <4a411e1c-2f2d-662d-92f8-786c002e931a@researchware.com> <9B2F81C6-CB3D-4D2C-A62F-A402E52CBF48@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: <1ef8a4a4-662e-d49a-0cd4-cbdc62dee5f6@researchware.com> All those forum efforts (except Richard's) ignore that the dictionary entry states that the "sort" command is a stable sort precisely so that you can do multiple sorts to sort by multiple chunks Whether you do   sort lines of tText by word 3 of each   sort lines of tText by word 2 of each   sort lines of tText by word 1 of each or repeat from i = 3 down to 1   sort lines of tText by word i of each end repeat and whether you want to sort by "word i of each" or "item i of each" or "token i of each" or whatever, the multiple sort commands is the LC recommended way to perform  multi-level sort. On 3/30/2022 4:16 PM, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: > I hate that one cannot edit previous posts here like we can on the forum. > > I meant tabs. not tase. > > Craig > >> On Mar 30, 2022, at 4:15 PM, Craig Newman wrote: >> >> I am assuming here that there are spaces separating the chars in your list. The use of words will also delimit if those are tase instead of spaces. But the method is worth exploring >> >> Craig >> >>> On Mar 30, 2022, at 3:39 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode > wrote: >>> >>> A B C >>> A A B >>> A B A >>> A A A >>> A A C > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From craig at starfirelighting.com Tue Apr 5 10:58:22 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 10:58:22 -0400 Subject: Confirm sort container order... In-Reply-To: <1ef8a4a4-662e-d49a-0cd4-cbdc62dee5f6@researchware.com> References: <4a411e1c-2f2d-662d-92f8-786c002e931a@researchware.com> <9B2F81C6-CB3D-4D2C-A62F-A402E52CBF48@starfirelighting.com> <1ef8a4a4-662e-d49a-0cd4-cbdc62dee5f6@researchware.com> Message-ID: <6696E2A0-72AA-45DF-A96A-623B0CE5195F@starfirelighting.com> Paul. Certainly, and in the forum discussion your point, about the mainstream, recommended and “correct” way to sort was mentioned several times. The discussion may seem academic to some, and perhaps pointless to others. But I like this sort of nonsense, and actually believe it is rather more than just that. In fact, it speaks to the internal working of the “sort” command itself, which seems counterintuitive at least, and a mystery at best. I like LC mysteries. And there just might be something worthwhile to learn... Craig > On Apr 5, 2022, at 10:43 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > > All those forum efforts (except Richard's) ignore that the dictionary entry states that the "sort" command is a stable sort precisely so that you can do multiple sorts to sort by multiple chunks > > Whether you do > > sort lines of tText by word 3 of each > sort lines of tText by word 2 of each > sort lines of tText by word 1 of each > > or > > repeat from i = 3 down to 1 > sort lines of tText by word i of each > end repeat > > and whether you want to sort by "word i of each" or "item i of each" or "token i of each" or whatever, the multiple sort commands is the LC recommended way to perform multi-level sort. > > > On 3/30/2022 4:16 PM, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: >> I hate that one cannot edit previous posts here like we can on the forum. >> >> I meant “tabs”. not “tase”. >> >> Craig >> >>> On Mar 30, 2022, at 4:15 PM, Craig Newman wrote: >>> >>> I am assuming here that there are spaces separating the chars in your list. The use of “words” will also delimit if those are tase instead of spaces. But the method is worth exploring… >>> >>> Craig >>> >>>> On Mar 30, 2022, at 3:39 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode > wrote: >>>> >>>> A B C >>>> A A B >>>> A B A >>>> A A A >>>> A A C >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From keith.clarke at me.com Tue Apr 5 12:02:30 2022 From: keith.clarke at me.com (Keith Clarke) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 17:02:30 +0100 Subject: CSV to TSV (was Re: Tools & techniques for one-off consolidation of multiple 'similar' CSV files?) In-Reply-To: References: <83272CB1-BDD0-4DAB-9F20-6BECAF92A18B@me.com> Message-ID: <4BF2491F-136C-44E3-A748-E03C29638F67@me.com> Hi folks, Thanks all for the responses and ideas on consolidating multiple CSV files into - much appreciated. Ben - Thank you for sharing your working recipe. This lifted my spirits as it showed I was on the right path (very nearly!) and you moved me on a big step from where I was stuck. My script was successfully iterating through folders and files, with filtering to get a file list of just CSVs with their paths for onward processing. I’d also identified the need to maintain registers of (growing) column names, together with a master row template and a mapping of the current file’s column headers in row-1 to the master to put align output columns. I got stuck when I set up nested repeat loops for files, then lines, then items and was trying to deal with row 1 column headers and data rows at the same time, which got rather confusing. Separating the column name processing from parsing row data made life a lot simpler and I’ve now got LC parsing the ~200 CSV files into a ~60,000 row TSV file that opens in Excel. However… I’m getting cells dropped into the wrong columns in the output file. So, I’m wondering if delimiters are broken in my CSV-to-TSV pre-processing. Can anyone spot any obvious errors or omissions in the following... -- convert from CSV to TSV replace tab with space in tFileData -- clear any tabs in the content before setting as a delimiter replace quote & comma & quote with tab in tFileData -- change delimiter for quoted values replace comma with tab in tFileData -- change delimiter for unquoted values replace quote with "" in tFileData -- clear quotes in first & last items set the itemDelimiter to tab Best, Keith From paul at researchware.com Tue Apr 5 12:08:42 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 12:08:42 -0400 Subject: Confirm sort container order... In-Reply-To: <6696E2A0-72AA-45DF-A96A-623B0CE5195F@starfirelighting.com> References: <4a411e1c-2f2d-662d-92f8-786c002e931a@researchware.com> <9B2F81C6-CB3D-4D2C-A62F-A402E52CBF48@starfirelighting.com> <1ef8a4a4-662e-d49a-0cd4-cbdc62dee5f6@researchware.com> <6696E2A0-72AA-45DF-A96A-623B0CE5195F@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: On 4/5/2022 10:58 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: > The discussion may seem academic to some, and perhaps pointless to others. But I like this sort of nonsense, and actually believe it is rather more than just that. In fact, it speaks to the internal working of the sort command itself, which seems counterintuitive at least, and a mystery at best. > > I certainly agree a nice enhancement to sort would be something like sort lines of by item 3 of each then [by] item 2 of each then [by] item 1 of each to replicate exactly (below) but in a single, easier to read, line sort lines of by item 3 of each sort lines of by item 2 of each sort lines of by item 1 of each a reduction in code and a more intuitive way of stating a multi-level sort with the addition of a "then", "then by", or some sort of delimiter keyword Still that assumes you want to do an ascending text sort for all 3 levels, since ascending text is the default and the syntax is sort lines ascending text by item 3 of each If you want different sorts for each key sort lines of ascending text by item 3 of each sort lines of descending numeric by item 2 of each sort lines of ascending international by item 1 of each might still be easier that any new syntax that reads something like: sort lines of by item 3 of each ascending text then by item 2 of each descending numeric then by item 1 of each ascending international Although the single line is slightly shorter code and still relatively easy to read. Still, I have NO idea how difficult it would be to add the syntax to the LC engine. If not too difficult to implement, it could be a handy enhancement to LC's sort. From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Tue Apr 5 12:09:08 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 12:09:08 -0400 Subject: CSV to TSV (was Re: Tools & techniques for one-off consolidation of multiple 'similar' CSV files?) In-Reply-To: <4BF2491F-136C-44E3-A748-E03C29638F67@me.com> References: <83272CB1-BDD0-4DAB-9F20-6BECAF92A18B@me.com> <4BF2491F-136C-44E3-A748-E03C29638F67@me.com> Message-ID: I'm confused by the code, above. If you are using tab as your column delimiter, then you wouldn't replace it with a space, since your tsv/csv files would have tabs in them when they were exported, originally. In any case, when you are going to replace a character with another character, you should make sure that the character you are replacing it to either a) does not have any special meaning (e.g. a delimiter) or b) if it does have a special meaning that it does not appear in the data, already. From keith.clarke at me.com Tue Apr 5 12:36:11 2022 From: keith.clarke at me.com (Keith Clarke) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 17:36:11 +0100 Subject: CSV to TSV (was Re: Tools & techniques for one-off consolidation of multiple 'similar' CSV files?) In-Reply-To: References: <83272CB1-BDD0-4DAB-9F20-6BECAF92A18B@me.com> <4BF2491F-136C-44E3-A748-E03C29638F67@me.com> Message-ID: This code sits early in the process of preparing CSV file data (from files that I didn’t create, so their content is unknown) into TSV text for onward processing. So, the logic here is attempting to address the very concerns that you raise, albeit in reverse order i.e. - remove any tab characters with (future) special meaning from the (CSV) data before introducing tabs as delimiters - to avoid false item-breaks downstream. - swap out the two forms of CSV delimiter (commas between quotes and commas) with the alternative tab delimiters …and finally clean up any orphan quotes left at the beginning of the first item in the line or end of the last. Best, Keith > On 5 Apr 2022, at 17:09, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > I'm confused by the code, above. If you are using tab as your column > delimiter, then you wouldn't replace it with a space, since your tsv/csv > files would have tabs in them when they were exported, originally. > In any case, when you are going to replace a character with another > character, you should make sure that the character you are replacing it to > either a) does not have any special meaning (e.g. a delimiter) or b) if it > does have a special meaning that it does not appear in the data, already. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From heather at livecode.com Tue Apr 5 12:54:20 2022 From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 17:54:20 +0100 Subject: Flash Talks - 3 slots remaining Message-ID: Dear Good Folks of the Use-list, I'm in the final throes of scheduling our upcoming online conference on 25-27th April. Its looking great! Multiple fabulous talks have come in, there is loads of rich content, we have panels, keynotes and workshops galore! We're just missing 3 flashtalks to round out the Flash Talks section on Day 3. I know at least 3 of you good people can speak for a mere 7 minutes on your topic of choice. Roll up roll up... and send me a talk submission :) Pretty please? https://livecode.com/global/apply-to-speak/ It's going to be a great event. Warmest Regards to all, Heather P.S. Where is the conference schedule to be seen, I hear you ask? Right here: https://livecode.com/global/schedule/ Heather Laine Customer Services Manager and Conference Organizer Extraordinaire LiveCode Ltd www.livecode.com From alex at tweedly.net Tue Apr 5 13:17:01 2022 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 18:17:01 +0100 Subject: CSV to TSV (was Re: Tools & techniques for one-off consolidation of multiple 'similar' CSV files?) In-Reply-To: <4BF2491F-136C-44E3-A748-E03C29638F67@me.com> References: <83272CB1-BDD0-4DAB-9F20-6BECAF92A18B@me.com> <4BF2491F-136C-44E3-A748-E03C29638F67@me.com> Message-ID: Hi Keith, that code will fail for any commas which occur within quoted entries - they will be wrongly converted to TABs I'd suggest getting cvsToTab (a community effort by Richard Gaskin, me and a whole host of others over the years) as a good starting place, and perhaps finishing place. It will handle most CSV oddities (not all of them - that is provably impossible :-). This does an efficient walk through the data, remembering whether it is inside or outside quoted entries, and hence handles commas accordingly. https://github.com/macMikey/csvToText/blob/master/csvToTab.livecodescript Alex. On 05/04/2022 17:02, Keith Clarke via use-livecode wrote: > Hi folks, > Thanks all for the responses and ideas on consolidating multiple CSV files into - much appreciated. > > Ben - Thank you for sharing your working recipe. This lifted my spirits as it showed I was on the right path (very nearly!) and you moved me on a big step from where I was stuck. > > My script was successfully iterating through folders and files, with filtering to get a file list of just CSVs with their paths for onward processing. Id also identified the need to maintain registers of (growing) column names, together with a master row template and a mapping of the current files column headers in row-1 to the master to put align output columns. I got stuck when I set up nested repeat loops for files, then lines, then items and was trying to deal with row 1 column headers and data rows at the same time, which got rather confusing. Separating the column name processing from parsing row data made life a lot simpler and Ive now got LC parsing the ~200 CSV files into a ~60,000 row TSV file that opens in Excel. > > However Im getting cells dropped into the wrong columns in the output file. So, Im wondering if delimiters are broken in my CSV-to-TSV pre-processing. Can anyone spot any obvious errors or omissions in the following... > -- convert from CSV to TSV > > replace tab with space in tFileData -- clear any tabs in the content before setting as a delimiter > > replace quote & comma & quote with tab in tFileData -- change delimiter for quoted values > > replace comma with tab in tFileData -- change delimiter for unquoted values > > replace quote with "" in tFileData -- clear quotes in first & last items > > set the itemDelimiter to tab > > Best, > Keith > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From andre at andregarzia.com Tue Apr 5 13:17:30 2022 From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 18:17:30 +0100 Subject: launch tFile with tApp In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: What about using AppleScript to force it to open with a given app? Sent from my iPhone > On 5 Apr 2022, at 10:08, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi all, > >> Am 04.04.2022 um 18:10 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode : >> >> Hi friends, >> >> macOS 12.3, LC 9.6.7 >> >> I have e.g. a MP3 file and want to open it with "Quicktime Player.app": >> ... >> ## tPrompt contains a localized string, of course >> answer file tPrompt with specialfolderpath("apps") with type "|app|" >> put it into tApp >> ## I select QTPLayer.app >> if the result = "cancel" then >> exit to top >> end if >> ## tDatei holds the complete path to the MP3 >> ## tApp the path to QTPlayer.app >> launch tDatei with tApp >> put the result >> ... >> >> It will open the MP3 with QTPlayer as desired BUT >> it also opens the file with "iTunes/Music" additionally!? >> And I don't want that! :-D >> >> The result is EMPTY. > > must have been a temporary "glitch" since it did not happen today. > > And a HTML file was opened with "TextEdit.app" as expected and did > not start "Safari". > > But will keep an eye on this! 8-) > > > Best > > Klaus > > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > https://www.major-k.de/bass > klaus at major-k.de > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From keith.clarke at me.com Tue Apr 5 13:28:23 2022 From: keith.clarke at me.com (Keith Clarke) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 18:28:23 +0100 Subject: CSV to TSV (was Re: Tools & techniques for one-off consolidation of multiple 'similar' CSV files?) In-Reply-To: References: <83272CB1-BDD0-4DAB-9F20-6BECAF92A18B@me.com> <4BF2491F-136C-44E3-A748-E03C29638F67@me.com> Message-ID: Ah, thanks Alex - I’ll dig into that. I did search around for CSV to TSV in several places before posting but not CSV to Tab and not github! Best, Keith > On 5 Apr 2022, at 18:17, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Keith, > > that code will fail for any commas which occur within quoted entries - they will be wrongly converted to TABs > > I'd suggest getting cvsToTab (a community effort by Richard Gaskin, me and a whole host of others over the years) as a good starting place, and perhaps finishing place. It will handle most CSV oddities (not all of them - that is provably impossible :-). > > This does an efficient walk through the data, remembering whether it is inside or outside quoted entries, and hence handles commas accordingly. > > https://github.com/macMikey/csvToText/blob/master/csvToTab.livecodescript > > Alex. > > On 05/04/2022 17:02, Keith Clarke via use-livecode wrote: >> Hi folks, >> Thanks all for the responses and ideas on consolidating multiple CSV files into - much appreciated. >> >> Ben - Thank you for sharing your working recipe. This lifted my spirits as it showed I was on the right path (very nearly!) and you moved me on a big step from where I was stuck. >> >> My script was successfully iterating through folders and files, with filtering to get a file list of just CSVs with their paths for onward processing. I’d also identified the need to maintain registers of (growing) column names, together with a master row template and a mapping of the current file’s column headers in row-1 to the master to put align output columns. I got stuck when I set up nested repeat loops for files, then lines, then items and was trying to deal with row 1 column headers and data rows at the same time, which got rather confusing. Separating the column name processing from parsing row data made life a lot simpler and I’ve now got LC parsing the ~200 CSV files into a ~60,000 row TSV file that opens in Excel. >> >> However… I’m getting cells dropped into the wrong columns in the output file. So, I’m wondering if delimiters are broken in my CSV-to-TSV pre-processing. Can anyone spot any obvious errors or omissions in the following... >> -- convert from CSV to TSV >> >> replace tab with space in tFileData -- clear any tabs in the content before setting as a delimiter >> >> replace quote & comma & quote with tab in tFileData -- change delimiter for quoted values >> >> replace comma with tab in tFileData -- change delimiter for unquoted values >> >> replace quote with "" in tFileData -- clear quotes in first & last items >> >> set the itemDelimiter to tab >> >> Best, >> Keith >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From klaus at major-k.de Tue Apr 5 13:33:08 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 19:33:08 +0200 Subject: launch tFile with tApp In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <89F109FF-BA7D-4CBB-B02C-F784E2D11051@major-k.de> Hi Andre, > Am 05.04.2022 um 19:17 schrieb Andre Garzia via use-livecode : > > What about using AppleScript to force it to open with a given app? please read my last posting, you even quoted it here. But I will consider this, if it will fail again or better if it will fail "reliably". :-D > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 5 Apr 2022, at 10:08, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >>> Am 04.04.2022 um 18:10 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode : >>> >>> Hi friends, >>> >>> macOS 12.3, LC 9.6.7 >>> >>> I have e.g. a MP3 file and want to open it with "Quicktime Player.app": >>> ... >>> ## tPrompt contains a localized string, of course >>> answer file tPrompt with specialfolderpath("apps") with type "|app|" >>> put it into tApp >>> ## I select QTPLayer.app >>> if the result = "cancel" then >>> exit to top >>> end if >>> ## tDatei holds the complete path to the MP3 >>> ## tApp the path to QTPlayer.app >>> launch tDatei with tApp >>> put the result >>> ... >>> >>> It will open the MP3 with QTPlayer as desired BUT >>> it also opens the file with "iTunes/Music" additionally!? >>> And I don't want that! :-D >>> >>> The result is EMPTY. >> >> must have been a temporary "glitch" since it did not happen today. >> >> And a HTML file was opened with "TextEdit.app" as expected and did >> not start "Safari". >> >> But will keep an eye on this! 8-) Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From craig at starfirelighting.com Tue Apr 5 13:36:11 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 13:36:11 -0400 Subject: Flash Talks - 3 slots remaining In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <33668918-E35F-4F67-80C1-9C2FF56678B8@starfirelighting.com> Heather. I probably am one of the oddest LC users. Entirely for either my own use or for my company. Only once did I sell a system commercially. But I do use LC to control three very different machines in our shop. Would it be of any interest to anyone to see one of these in operation? Regards, Craig Newman (dunbarx) > On Apr 5, 2022, at 12:54 PM, Heather Laine via use-livecode wrote: > > Dear Good Folks of the Use-list, > > I'm in the final throes of scheduling our upcoming online conference on 25-27th April. Its looking great! Multiple fabulous talks have come in, there is loads of rich content, we have panels, keynotes and workshops galore! We're just missing 3 flashtalks to round out the Flash Talks section on Day 3. I know at least 3 of you good people can speak for a mere 7 minutes on your topic of choice. Roll up roll up... and send me a talk submission :) Pretty please? > > https://livecode.com/global/apply-to-speak/ > > It's going to be a great event. > > Warmest Regards to all, > > Heather > > P.S. Where is the conference schedule to be seen, I hear you ask? Right here: > > https://livecode.com/global/schedule/ > > Heather Laine > Customer Services Manager and Conference Organizer Extraordinaire > LiveCode Ltd > www.livecode.com > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From andre at andregarzia.com Tue Apr 5 13:41:08 2022 From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 18:41:08 +0100 Subject: Flash Talks - 3 slots remaining In-Reply-To: <33668918-E35F-4F67-80C1-9C2FF56678B8@starfirelighting.com> References: <33668918-E35F-4F67-80C1-9C2FF56678B8@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: I think this is very interesting. I’d love to watch a flash talk on it. Sent from my iPhone > On 5 Apr 2022, at 18:38, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: > > Heather. > > I probably am one of the oddest LC users. Entirely for either my own use or for my company. Only once did I sell a system commercially. > > But I do use LC to control three very different machines in our shop. Would it be of any interest to anyone to see one of these in operation? > > Regards, > > Craig Newman (dunbarx) > > > >> On Apr 5, 2022, at 12:54 PM, Heather Laine via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Dear Good Folks of the Use-list, >> >> I'm in the final throes of scheduling our upcoming online conference on 25-27th April. Its looking great! Multiple fabulous talks have come in, there is loads of rich content, we have panels, keynotes and workshops galore! We're just missing 3 flashtalks to round out the Flash Talks section on Day 3. I know at least 3 of you good people can speak for a mere 7 minutes on your topic of choice. Roll up roll up... and send me a talk submission :) Pretty please? >> >> https://livecode.com/global/apply-to-speak/ >> >> It's going to be a great event. >> >> Warmest Regards to all, >> >> Heather >> >> P.S. Where is the conference schedule to be seen, I hear you ask? Right here: >> >> https://livecode.com/global/schedule/ >> >> Heather Laine >> Customer Services Manager and Conference Organizer Extraordinaire >> LiveCode Ltd >> www.livecode.com >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From alex at tweedly.net Tue Apr 5 13:48:45 2022 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 18:48:45 +0100 Subject: Flash Talks - 3 slots remaining In-Reply-To: <33668918-E35F-4F67-80C1-9C2FF56678B8@starfirelighting.com> References: <33668918-E35F-4F67-80C1-9C2FF56678B8@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: <69ce9acd-739b-7d4d-1811-087b059f1c5d@tweedly.net> Sounds fascinating - I'd love to hear about that. Alex. On 05/04/2022 18:36, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: > Heather. > > I probably am one of the oddest LC users. Entirely for either my own use or for my company. Only once did I sell a system commercially. > > But I do use LC to control three very different machines in our shop. Would it be of any interest to anyone to see one of these in operation? > > Regards, > > Craig Newman (dunbarx) > > > >> On Apr 5, 2022, at 12:54 PM, Heather Laine via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Dear Good Folks of the Use-list, >> >> I'm in the final throes of scheduling our upcoming online conference on 25-27th April. Its looking great! Multiple fabulous talks have come in, there is loads of rich content, we have panels, keynotes and workshops galore! We're just missing 3 flashtalks to round out the Flash Talks section on Day 3. I know at least 3 of you good people can speak for a mere 7 minutes on your topic of choice. Roll up roll up... and send me a talk submission :) Pretty please? >> >> https://livecode.com/global/apply-to-speak/ >> >> It's going to be a great event. >> >> Warmest Regards to all, >> >> Heather >> >> P.S. Where is the conference schedule to be seen, I hear you ask? Right here: >> >> https://livecode.com/global/schedule/ >> >> Heather Laine >> Customer Services Manager and Conference Organizer Extraordinaire >> LiveCode Ltd >> www.livecode.com >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From craig at starfirelighting.com Tue Apr 5 13:52:05 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 13:52:05 -0400 Subject: Confirm sort container order... In-Reply-To: References: <4a411e1c-2f2d-662d-92f8-786c002e931a@researchware.com> <9B2F81C6-CB3D-4D2C-A62F-A402E52CBF48@starfirelighting.com> <1ef8a4a4-662e-d49a-0cd4-cbdc62dee5f6@researchware.com> <6696E2A0-72AA-45DF-A96A-623B0CE5195F@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: <4275F9C0-2BAF-43FC-A96E-EE3867ECEE86@starfirelighting.com> Paul. I see you have come to the dark side. Welcome. “Sort", and its newly reborn compound variant, works fine as "sort it ascending numeric by word 1 of each && word 2 of each && word 3 of each” Since “lines” are the default, all one needs, and I mentioned this on the forum, is to determine the line with the greatest number of words, and build the string accordingly. This takes another couple of lines of code, but no more than having that very same number laid out in a series of single line sorts, still having to be determined by the maximum number of words or items. whatever. Craig > On Apr 5, 2022, at 12:08 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > > On 4/5/2022 10:58 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: >> The discussion may seem academic to some, and perhaps pointless to others. But I like this sort of nonsense, and actually believe it is rather more than just that. In fact, it speaks to the internal working of the “sort” command itself, which seems counterintuitive at least, and a mystery at best. >> >> > > I certainly agree a nice enhancement to sort would be something like > > sort lines of by item 3 of each then [by] item 2 of each then [by] item 1 of each > > to replicate exactly (below) but in a single, easier to read, line > > sort lines of by item 3 of each > sort lines of by item 2 of each > sort lines of by item 1 of each > > a reduction in code and a more intuitive way of stating a multi-level sort with the addition of a "then", "then by", or some sort of delimiter keyword > > Still that assumes you want to do an ascending text sort for all 3 levels, since ascending text is the default and the syntax is > > sort lines ascending text by item 3 of each > > If you want different sorts for each key > > sort lines of ascending text by item 3 of each > sort lines of descending numeric by item 2 of each > sort lines of ascending international by item 1 of each > > might still be easier that any new syntax that reads something like: > > sort lines of by item 3 of each ascending text then by item 2 of each descending numeric then by item 1 of each ascending international > > Although the single line is slightly shorter code and still relatively easy to read. Still, I have NO idea how difficult it would be to add the syntax to the LC engine. If not too difficult to implement, it could be a handy enhancement to LC's sort. > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From craig at starfirelighting.com Tue Apr 5 13:54:01 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 13:54:01 -0400 Subject: Flash Talks - 3 slots remaining In-Reply-To: References: <33668918-E35F-4F67-80C1-9C2FF56678B8@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: <7688300A-DD6C-4D1C-B3FE-7082608DC93C@starfirelighting.com> How is that done? From my phone with a cameraman? The talk would only make sense with me in front of the running machine itself, making noise. Craig > On Apr 5, 2022, at 1:41 PM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode wrote: > > I think this is very interesting. I’d love to watch a flash talk on it. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 5 Apr 2022, at 18:38, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Heather. >> >> I probably am one of the oddest LC users. Entirely for either my own use or for my company. Only once did I sell a system commercially. >> >> But I do use LC to control three very different machines in our shop. Would it be of any interest to anyone to see one of these in operation? >> >> Regards, >> >> Craig Newman (dunbarx) >> >> >> >>> On Apr 5, 2022, at 12:54 PM, Heather Laine via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> Dear Good Folks of the Use-list, >>> >>> I'm in the final throes of scheduling our upcoming online conference on 25-27th April. Its looking great! Multiple fabulous talks have come in, there is loads of rich content, we have panels, keynotes and workshops galore! We're just missing 3 flashtalks to round out the Flash Talks section on Day 3. I know at least 3 of you good people can speak for a mere 7 minutes on your topic of choice. Roll up roll up... and send me a talk submission :) Pretty please? >>> >>> https://livecode.com/global/apply-to-speak/ >>> >>> It's going to be a great event. >>> >>> Warmest Regards to all, >>> >>> Heather >>> >>> P.S. Where is the conference schedule to be seen, I hear you ask? Right here: >>> >>> https://livecode.com/global/schedule/ >>> >>> Heather Laine >>> Customer Services Manager and Conference Organizer Extraordinaire >>> LiveCode Ltd >>> www.livecode.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From alex at tweedly.net Tue Apr 5 15:07:34 2022 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 20:07:34 +0100 Subject: Flash Talks - 3 slots remaining In-Reply-To: <7688300A-DD6C-4D1C-B3FE-7082608DC93C@starfirelighting.com> References: <33668918-E35F-4F67-80C1-9C2FF56678B8@starfirelighting.com> <7688300A-DD6C-4D1C-B3FE-7082608DC93C@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: Do you need to be in front of the running machine ? Could you maybe video the machine going through its sequence - then record your voice-over later (either muting or turning down the machine audio, whichever is better) ? (Or, to put it another way, I have no real idea :-) but I'm sure Heather can help you. Alex. On 05/04/2022 18:54, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: > How is that done? From my phone with a cameraman? The talk would only make sense with me in front of the running machine itself, making noise. > > Craig > >> On Apr 5, 2022, at 1:41 PM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode wrote: >> >> I think this is very interesting. Id love to watch a flash talk on it. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On 5 Apr 2022, at 18:38, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> Heather. >>> >>> I probably am one of the oddest LC users. Entirely for either my own use or for my company. Only once did I sell a system commercially. >>> >>> But I do use LC to control three very different machines in our shop. Would it be of any interest to anyone to see one of these in operation? >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Craig Newman (dunbarx) >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Apr 5, 2022, at 12:54 PM, Heather Laine via use-livecode wrote: >>>> >>>> Dear Good Folks of the Use-list, >>>> >>>> I'm in the final throes of scheduling our upcoming online conference on 25-27th April. Its looking great! Multiple fabulous talks have come in, there is loads of rich content, we have panels, keynotes and workshops galore! We're just missing 3 flashtalks to round out the Flash Talks section on Day 3. I know at least 3 of you good people can speak for a mere 7 minutes on your topic of choice. Roll up roll up... and send me a talk submission :) Pretty please? >>>> >>>> https://livecode.com/global/apply-to-speak/ >>>> >>>> It's going to be a great event. >>>> >>>> Warmest Regards to all, >>>> >>>> Heather >>>> >>>> P.S. Where is the conference schedule to be seen, I hear you ask? Right here: >>>> >>>> https://livecode.com/global/schedule/ >>>> >>>> Heather Laine >>>> Customer Services Manager and Conference Organizer Extraordinaire >>>> LiveCode Ltd >>>> www.livecode.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ahsoftware at sonic.net Tue Apr 5 16:36:30 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 13:36:30 -0700 Subject: Flash Talks - 3 slots remaining In-Reply-To: <33668918-E35F-4F67-80C1-9C2FF56678B8@starfirelighting.com> References: <33668918-E35F-4F67-80C1-9C2FF56678B8@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: On 4/5/22 10:36, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: > > But I do use LC to control three very different machines in our shop. Would it be of any interest to anyone to see one of these in operation? Add me to the list of interested folks. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From tom at makeshyft.com Tue Apr 5 17:05:51 2022 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 17:05:51 -0400 Subject: Flash Talks - 3 slots remaining In-Reply-To: References: <33668918-E35F-4F67-80C1-9C2FF56678B8@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: Cool I'd watch your talk Craig. On Tue, Apr 5, 2022 at 4:37 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 4/5/22 10:36, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: > > > > > But I do use LC to control three very different machines in our shop. > Would it be of any interest to anyone to see one of these in operation? > > Add me to the list of interested folks. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From craig at starfirelighting.com Tue Apr 5 17:25:05 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 17:25:05 -0400 Subject: Flash Talks - 3 slots remaining In-Reply-To: References: <33668918-E35F-4F67-80C1-9C2FF56678B8@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: <0FAF3A38-0400-402A-9E63-9CD93EDF4DFC@starfirelighting.com> I suppose I could set up a Zoom session, and get some sucker, I mean, helper to video me. But much of the underlying power behind each of my machines is based on a small I/O hardware gadget that has no particular relevance to LC per se, apart from a software framework that supports it. The front end is a LC stack, running in the IDE, a control panel that reads and writes to the gadget. The gadget reads the state of things like switches and controls things like motors. Perhaps this might suggest to some that a hardware project could be assembled using Raspberry Pi or Arduino or even a PIC, since my particular hardware gadget is no longer supported. Anyway, for a minute or two it probably will look pretty cool, and the machine I have in mind is nothing if not noisy. Craig > On Apr 5, 2022, at 5:05 PM, Tom Glod via use-livecode wrote: > > Cool I'd watch your talk Craig. > > On Tue, Apr 5, 2022 at 4:37 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> On 4/5/22 10:36, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: >> >>> >>> But I do use LC to control three very different machines in our shop. >> Would it be of any interest to anyone to see one of these in operation? >> >> Add me to the list of interested folks. >> >> -- >> Mark Wieder >> ahsoftware at gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Tue Apr 5 17:28:50 2022 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 17:28:50 -0400 Subject: Flash Talks - 3 slots remaining In-Reply-To: <33668918-E35F-4F67-80C1-9C2FF56678B8@starfirelighting.com> References: <33668918-E35F-4F67-80C1-9C2FF56678B8@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: <005e01d84934$27b0e0e0$7712a2a0$@net> Go for it. Get a headset and use a tablet. This is cool. Not as cool as a "pancake printer" but cool none the less. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Craig Newman via use-livecode Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2022 1:36 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Craig Newman Subject: Re: Flash Talks - 3 slots remaining Heather. I probably am one of the oddest LC users. Entirely for either my own use or for my company. Only once did I sell a system commercially. But I do use LC to control three very different machines in our shop. Would it be of any interest to anyone to see one of these in operation? Regards, Craig Newman (dunbarx) > On Apr 5, 2022, at 12:54 PM, Heather Laine via use-livecode wrote: > > Dear Good Folks of the Use-list, > > I'm in the final throes of scheduling our upcoming online conference on 25-27th April. Its looking great! Multiple fabulous talks have come in, there is loads of rich content, we have panels, keynotes and workshops galore! We're just missing 3 flashtalks to round out the Flash Talks section on Day 3. I know at least 3 of you good people can speak for a mere 7 minutes on your topic of choice. Roll up roll up... and send me a talk submission :) Pretty please? > > https://livecode.com/global/apply-to-speak/ > > > It's going to be a great event. > > Warmest Regards to all, > > Heather > > P.S. Where is the conference schedule to be seen, I hear you ask? Right here: > > https://livecode.com/global/schedule/ > > Heather Laine > Customer Services Manager and Conference Organizer Extraordinaire > LiveCode Ltd www.livecode.com > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Apr 5 17:27:10 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 21:27:10 +0000 Subject: Flash Talks - 3 slots remaining In-Reply-To: References: <33668918-E35F-4F67-80C1-9C2FF56678B8@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: I'm in. Bob S > On Apr 5, 2022, at 13:36 , Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > > On 4/5/22 10:36, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: > >> But I do use LC to control three very different machines in our shop. Would it be of any interest to anyone to see one of these in operation? > > Add me to the list of interested folks. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ahsoftware at sonic.net Tue Apr 5 18:23:13 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 15:23:13 -0700 Subject: Flash Talks - 3 slots remaining In-Reply-To: <0FAF3A38-0400-402A-9E63-9CD93EDF4DFC@starfirelighting.com> References: <33668918-E35F-4F67-80C1-9C2FF56678B8@starfirelighting.com> <0FAF3A38-0400-402A-9E63-9CD93EDF4DFC@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: <1344d337-0a55-be93-fa6e-be9a14b172fb@sonic.net> On 4/5/22 14:25, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: > But much of the underlying power behind each of my machines is based on a small I/O hardware gadget that has no particular relevance to LC per se, apart from a software framework that supports it. > > The front end is a LC stack, running in the IDE, a control panel that reads and writes to the gadget. The gadget reads the state of things like switches and controls things like motors. Perhaps this might suggest to some that a hardware project could be assembled using Raspberry Pi or Arduino or even a PIC, since my particular hardware gadget is no longer supported. All right - now I'm hooked. Looking forward to you talking about the LC interface to the real world. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ahsoftware at sonic.net Tue Apr 5 18:25:22 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 15:25:22 -0700 Subject: Flash Talks - 3 slots remaining In-Reply-To: <005e01d84934$27b0e0e0$7712a2a0$@net> References: <33668918-E35F-4F67-80C1-9C2FF56678B8@starfirelighting.com> <005e01d84934$27b0e0e0$7712a2a0$@net> Message-ID: <1010cf75-e8c1-4a15-e285-be3c896e545f@sonic.net> On 4/5/22 14:28, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote: > Go for it. Get a headset and use a tablet. This is cool. Not as cool as a > "pancake printer" but cool none the less. Oooo... they had one of those pancake printers set up at the Maker Faire a few years ago. Takes a bit of time, but... fancy pancakes. *Almost* hated to eat mine. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Tue Apr 5 20:28:10 2022 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 20:28:10 -0400 Subject: Flash Talks - 3 slots remaining In-Reply-To: <1344d337-0a55-be93-fa6e-be9a14b172fb@sonic.net> References: <33668918-E35F-4F67-80C1-9C2FF56678B8@starfirelighting.com> <0FAF3A38-0400-402A-9E63-9CD93EDF4DFC@starfirelighting.com> <1344d337-0a55-be93-fa6e-be9a14b172fb@sonic.net> Message-ID: <006401d8494d$34c031f0$9e4095d0$@net> Me too. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net All right - now I'm hooked. Looking forward to you talking about the LC interface to the real world. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Wed Apr 6 08:03:53 2022 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 22:03:53 +1000 Subject: Widget properties Message-ID: <30167ED7-D04B-4164-A99D-1AC5EB2A68E3@optusnet.com.au> Is it not a bug that the properties of widget “foo” returns empty (for all values of foo)? No rect, no visible, no disabled etc, even though these clearly are settable and functional properties of the widget. You can export widget “foo” to array “bar” but that gives the intrinsic properties of the widget not the usual object properties. Oh and don’t forget the reserved word “array” in the above line, that causes an IDE crash (bug 23655 confirmed) Neville From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Apr 6 08:36:27 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 14:36:27 +0200 Subject: Widget properties In-Reply-To: <30167ED7-D04B-4164-A99D-1AC5EB2A68E3@optusnet.com.au> References: <30167ED7-D04B-4164-A99D-1AC5EB2A68E3@optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <827117BD-FB31-4DBD-8963-B7F7E09A6427@m-r-d.de> That is not available according to this post from Ali Lloyd https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?t=27183#p141945 > Am 06.04.2022 um 14:03 schrieb Neville Smythe via use-livecode : > > Is it not a bug that > > the properties of widget “foo” > > returns empty (for all values of foo)? > > No rect, no visible, no disabled etc, even though these clearly are settable and functional properties of the widget. > > You can > > export widget “foo” to array “bar” > > but that gives the intrinsic properties of the widget not the usual object properties. Oh and don’t forget the reserved word “array” in the above line, that causes an IDE crash (bug 23655 confirmed) > > Neville > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Apr 6 08:37:26 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 14:37:26 +0200 Subject: Widget properties In-Reply-To: <827117BD-FB31-4DBD-8963-B7F7E09A6427@m-r-d.de> References: <30167ED7-D04B-4164-A99D-1AC5EB2A68E3@optusnet.com.au> <827117BD-FB31-4DBD-8963-B7F7E09A6427@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: Forgot to mention that his post also has a solution to fetch the list of all available properties for a widget. > Am 06.04.2022 um 14:36 schrieb matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de: > > That is not available according to this post from Ali Lloyd > > https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?t=27183#p141945 > > >> Am 06.04.2022 um 14:03 schrieb Neville Smythe via use-livecode >: >> >> Is it not a bug that >> >> the properties of widget “foo” >> >> returns empty (for all values of foo)? >> >> No rect, no visible, no disabled etc, even though these clearly are settable and functional properties of the widget. >> >> You can >> >> export widget “foo” to array “bar” >> >> but that gives the intrinsic properties of the widget not the usual object properties. Oh and don’t forget the reserved word “array” in the above line, that causes an IDE crash (bug 23655 > confirmed) >> >> Neville >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From craig at starfirelighting.com Wed Apr 6 09:12:03 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 09:12:03 -0400 Subject: Flash Talks - 3 slots remaining In-Reply-To: <006401d8494d$34c031f0$9e4095d0$@net> References: <33668918-E35F-4F67-80C1-9C2FF56678B8@starfirelighting.com> <0FAF3A38-0400-402A-9E63-9CD93EDF4DFC@starfirelighting.com> <1344d337-0a55-be93-fa6e-be9a14b172fb@sonic.net> <006401d8494d$34c031f0$9e4095d0$@net> Message-ID: So is this a video that I make beforehand and upload somewhere, or is it usually meant to be a live show? Craig > On Apr 5, 2022, at 8:28 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote: > > Me too. > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > > All right - now I'm hooked. > Looking forward to you talking about the LC interface to the real world. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From alex at tweedly.net Wed Apr 6 09:22:06 2022 From: alex at tweedly.net (Tweedly) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 14:22:06 +0100 Subject: Widget properties In-Reply-To: <827117BD-FB31-4DBD-8963-B7F7E09A6427@m-r-d.de> References: <827117BD-FB31-4DBD-8963-B7F7E09A6427@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <32B7BC63-B306-4B17-B104-3A0ACCAF5974@tweedly.net> That post from Ali says they are not available; it doesn’t say they should be not available. I’d say they should be - Ali’s workaround is good for the IDE only. So no reason not to submit as a bug/request, and get a proper determination from LCLtd. Alex Sent from my iPad > On 6 Apr 2022, at 13:37, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > > That is not available according to this post from Ali Lloyd > > https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?t=27183#p141945 > > >> Am 06.04.2022 um 14:03 schrieb Neville Smythe via use-livecode : >> >> Is it not a bug that >> >> the properties of widget “foo” >> >> returns empty (for all values of foo)? >> >> No rect, no visible, no disabled etc, even though these clearly are settable and functional properties of the widget. >> >> You can >> >> export widget “foo” to array “bar” >> >> but that gives the intrinsic properties of the widget not the usual object properties. Oh and don’t forget the reserved word “array” in the above line, that causes an IDE crash (bug 23655 confirmed) >> >> Neville >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From klaus at major-k.de Wed Apr 6 09:23:16 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 15:23:16 +0200 Subject: drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) always BLACK Message-ID: <1C2D1B7B-6ECE-44AE-8443-01AF60542A58@major-k.de> Hi all, drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) is really great, but the resulting images are always black. I can of course add a "color overlay" but when I use them as "imagesource" it uses the original black images. Any hints on how to add color to them when using them as "imagesource" in a field without screenshotting them or exporting them, add color in an image editing app and reimport them as images? Thanks for any hint! Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Apr 6 09:30:16 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 15:30:16 +0200 Subject: Widget properties In-Reply-To: <32B7BC63-B306-4B17-B104-3A0ACCAF5974@tweedly.net> References: <827117BD-FB31-4DBD-8963-B7F7E09A6427@m-r-d.de> <32B7BC63-B306-4B17-B104-3A0ACCAF5974@tweedly.net> Message-ID: Maybe. But the last 6 years no one filed a bug report, even Ali did not. So i doubt, that it will be fixed in the near future even with a bug report. Anyway, without a bug report there is definitely no chance that it will be ever fixed. > Am 06.04.2022 um 15:22 schrieb Tweedly via use-livecode : > > That post from Ali says they are not available; it doesn’t say they should be not available. > > I’d say they should be - Ali’s workaround is good for the IDE only. > > So no reason not to submit as a bug/request, and get a proper determination from LCLtd. > > Alex > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 6 Apr 2022, at 13:37, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: >> >> That is not available according to this post from Ali Lloyd >> >> https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?t=27183#p141945 >> >> >>> Am 06.04.2022 um 14:03 schrieb Neville Smythe via use-livecode : >>> >>> Is it not a bug that >>> >>> the properties of widget “foo” >>> >>> returns empty (for all values of foo)? >>> >>> No rect, no visible, no disabled etc, even though these clearly are settable and functional properties of the widget. >>> >>> You can >>> >>> export widget “foo” to array “bar” >>> >>> but that gives the intrinsic properties of the widget not the usual object properties. Oh and don’t forget the reserved word “array” in the above line, that causes an IDE crash (bug 23655 confirmed) >>> >>> Neville >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From tore.nilsen at me.com Wed Apr 6 09:30:36 2022 From: tore.nilsen at me.com (Tore Nilsen) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 15:30:36 +0200 Subject: Flash Talks - 3 slots remaining In-Reply-To: References: <33668918-E35F-4F67-80C1-9C2FF56678B8@starfirelighting.com> <0FAF3A38-0400-402A-9E63-9CD93EDF4DFC@starfirelighting.com> <1344d337-0a55-be93-fa6e-be9a14b172fb@sonic.net> <006401d8494d$34c031f0$9e4095d0$@net> Message-ID: Very often you will make the presentation beforehand and make yourself available to answer any questions at the time of presentation. I guess Heather will guide you through the process. Best regards Tore Nilsen > 6. apr. 2022 kl. 15:12 skrev Craig Newman via use-livecode : > > So is this a video that I make beforehand and upload somewhere, or is it usually meant to be a live show? > > Craig From klaus at major-k.de Wed Apr 6 09:35:08 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 15:35:08 +0200 Subject: drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) always BLACK In-Reply-To: <1C2D1B7B-6ECE-44AE-8443-01AF60542A58@major-k.de> References: <1C2D1B7B-6ECE-44AE-8443-01AF60542A58@major-k.de> Message-ID: <6A41765B-B800-4FA6-8F64-A9A969D0B7B1@major-k.de> Just made a test and it looks like the resulting images from drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) cannot even be screenshot-ted!? Results in a greyish rectangle? WTF? Tried as PNG and JPEG. see screenshot here: > Am 06.04.2022 um 15:23 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode : > > Hi all, > > drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) is really great, > but the resulting images are always black. > > I can of course add a "color overlay" but when I use them as > "imagesource" it uses the original black images. > > Any hints on how to add color to them when using them > as "imagesource" in a field without screenshotting them or > exporting them, add color in an image editing app and > reimport them as images? > > Thanks for any hint! -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From klaus at major-k.de Wed Apr 6 09:42:33 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 15:42:33 +0200 Subject: drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) always BLACK In-Reply-To: <6A41765B-B800-4FA6-8F64-A9A969D0B7B1@major-k.de> References: <1C2D1B7B-6ECE-44AE-8443-01AF60542A58@major-k.de> <6A41765B-B800-4FA6-8F64-A9A969D0B7B1@major-k.de> Message-ID: <0586315F-E6FA-4B78-AEA4-ED0A391AA2B7@major-k.de> Bug reported it: > Am 06.04.2022 um 15:35 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode : > > Just made a test and it looks like the resulting images from > drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) cannot even be screenshot-ted!? > Results in a greyish rectangle? WTF? > > Tried as PNG and JPEG. > > see screenshot here: > -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From sean at pidigital.co.uk Wed Apr 6 10:04:31 2022 From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Sean Cole) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 15:04:31 +0100 Subject: Widget properties In-Reply-To: References: <827117BD-FB31-4DBD-8963-B7F7E09A6427@m-r-d.de> <32B7BC63-B306-4B17-B104-3A0ACCAF5974@tweedly.net> Message-ID: I would suggest filing a report and get the ball rolling. If you reference in the post by Ali and your other workarounds it will at least be useful to some and at best provide information that leads to a fix. On Wed, 6 Apr 2022 at 14:30, matthias rebbe via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Maybe. > > But the last 6 years no one filed a bug report, even Ali did not. So i > doubt, that it will be fixed in the near future even with a bug report. > Anyway, without a bug report there is definitely no chance that it will be > ever fixed. > > > > Am 06.04.2022 um 15:22 schrieb Tweedly via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: > > > > That post from Ali says they are not available; it doesn’t say they > should be not available. > > > > I’d say they should be - Ali’s workaround is good for the IDE only. > > > > So no reason not to submit as a bug/request, and get a proper > determination from LCLtd. > > > > Alex > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > >> On 6 Apr 2022, at 13:37, matthias rebbe via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> > >> That is not available according to this post from Ali Lloyd > >> > >> https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?t=27183#p141945 < > https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?t=27183#p141945> > >> > >> > >>> Am 06.04.2022 um 14:03 schrieb Neville Smythe via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: > >>> > >>> Is it not a bug that > >>> > >>> the properties of widget “foo” > >>> > >>> returns empty (for all values of foo)? > >>> > >>> No rect, no visible, no disabled etc, even though these clearly are > settable and functional properties of the widget. > >>> > >>> You can > >>> > >>> export widget “foo” to array “bar” > >>> > >>> but that gives the intrinsic properties of the widget not the usual > object properties. Oh and don’t forget the reserved word “array” in the > above line, that causes an IDE crash (bug 23655 < > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23655> confirmed) > >>> > >>> Neville > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> use-livecode mailing list > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Apr 6 10:55:44 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 14:55:44 +0000 Subject: drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) always BLACK In-Reply-To: <1C2D1B7B-6ECE-44AE-8443-01AF60542A58@major-k.de> References: <1C2D1B7B-6ECE-44AE-8443-01AF60542A58@major-k.de> Message-ID: <63B26CED-E6AB-4520-B532-06E74EB5F6B0@iotecdigital.com> Sounds a little like the old bug where a PNG would draw as black if it had an Alpha channel. Bob S > On Apr 6, 2022, at 06:23 , Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi all, > > drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) is really great, > but the resulting images are always black. > > I can of course add a "color overlay" but when I use them as > "imagesource" it uses the original black images. > > Any hints on how to add color to them when using them > as "imagesource" in a field without screenshotting them or > exporting them, add color in an image editing app and > reimport them as images? > > Thanks for any hint! > > > Best > > Klaus > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > https://www.major-k.de/bass > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Apr 6 11:59:52 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2022 10:59:52 -0500 Subject: drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) always BLACK In-Reply-To: <6A41765B-B800-4FA6-8F64-A9A969D0B7B1@major-k.de> References: <1C2D1B7B-6ECE-44AE-8443-01AF60542A58@major-k.de> <6A41765B-B800-4FA6-8F64-A9A969D0B7B1@major-k.de> Message-ID: <17fff9a88c0.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> The IDE supports importing SVG images from the Import As Control menu. Does that work any differently? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On April 6, 2022 8:36:29 AM Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > Just made a test and it looks like the resulting images from > drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) cannot even be screenshot-ted!? > Results in a greyish rectangle? WTF? > > Tried as PNG and JPEG. > > see screenshot here: > > >> Am 06.04.2022 um 15:23 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode >> : >> >> Hi all, >> >> drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) is really great, >> but the resulting images are always black. >> >> I can of course add a "color overlay" but when I use them as >> "imagesource" it uses the original black images. >> >> Any hints on how to add color to them when using them >> as "imagesource" in a field without screenshotting them or >> exporting them, add color in an image editing app and >> reimport them as images? >> >> Thanks for any hint! > > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > https://www.major-k.de/bass > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From klaus at major-k.de Wed Apr 6 12:10:23 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 18:10:23 +0200 Subject: drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) always BLACK In-Reply-To: <17fff9a88c0.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <1C2D1B7B-6ECE-44AE-8443-01AF60542A58@major-k.de> <6A41765B-B800-4FA6-8F64-A9A969D0B7B1@major-k.de> <17fff9a88c0.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <7778D0F7-FDB0-4512-BFE6-561AE3B3E455@major-k.de> Hi Jaques, > Am 06.04.2022 um 17:59 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode : > > The IDE supports importing SVG images from the Import As Control menu. Does that work any differently? not tested (yet). > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > On April 6, 2022 8:36:29 AM Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > >> Just made a test and it looks like the resulting images from >> drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) cannot even be screenshot-ted!? >> Results in a greyish rectangle? WTF? >> >> Tried as PNG and JPEG. >> >> see screenshot here: >> >> >>> Am 06.04.2022 um 15:23 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode : >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) is really great, >>> but the resulting images are always black. >>> >>> I can of course add a "color overlay" but when I use them as >>> "imagesource" it uses the original black images. >>> >>> Any hints on how to add color to them when using them >>> as "imagesource" in a field without screenshotting them or >>> exporting them, add color in an image editing app and >>> reimport them as images? >>> >>> Thanks for any hint! Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From klaus at major-k.de Wed Apr 6 12:13:26 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 18:13:26 +0200 Subject: drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) always BLACK In-Reply-To: <7778D0F7-FDB0-4512-BFE6-561AE3B3E455@major-k.de> References: <1C2D1B7B-6ECE-44AE-8443-01AF60542A58@major-k.de> <6A41765B-B800-4FA6-8F64-A9A969D0B7B1@major-k.de> <17fff9a88c0.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <7778D0F7-FDB0-4512-BFE6-561AE3B3E455@major-k.de> Message-ID: > Am 06.04.2022 um 18:10 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode : > > Hi Jaques, > >> Am 06.04.2022 um 17:59 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode : >> >> The IDE supports importing SVG images from the Import As Control menu. Does that work any differently? > > not tested (yet). just tested and THAT works!? > >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> On April 6, 2022 8:36:29 AM Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >> >>> Just made a test and it looks like the resulting images from >>> drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) cannot even be screenshot-ted!? >>> Results in a greyish rectangle? WTF? >>> >>> Tried as PNG and JPEG. >>> >>> see screenshot here: >>> >>> >>>> Am 06.04.2022 um 15:23 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode : >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) is really great, >>>> but the resulting images are always black. >>>> >>>> I can of course add a "color overlay" but when I use them as >>>> "imagesource" it uses the original black images. >>>> >>>> Any hints on how to add color to them when using them >>>> as "imagesource" in a field without screenshotting them or >>>> exporting them, add color in an image editing app and >>>> reimport them as images? >>>> >>>> Thanks for any hint! > > Best > > Klaus > > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > https://www.major-k.de/bass > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From klaus at major-k.de Wed Apr 6 13:16:40 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 19:16:40 +0200 Subject: drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) always BLACK In-Reply-To: References: <1C2D1B7B-6ECE-44AE-8443-01AF60542A58@major-k.de> <6A41765B-B800-4FA6-8F64-A9A969D0B7B1@major-k.de> <17fff9a88c0.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <7778D0F7-FDB0-4512-BFE6-561AE3B3E455@major-k.de> Message-ID: <32247ECF-1AD1-4CBC-9FE5-2F81DFC8C62F@major-k.de> Hi all, so sorry, looks like I completely f..... up here. Sorry for the confusion, not may day... See: Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From mark at livecode.com Wed Apr 6 13:28:00 2022 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2022 18:28:00 +0100 Subject: drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) always BLACK In-Reply-To: <32247ECF-1AD1-4CBC-9FE5-2F81DFC8C62F@major-k.de> References: <1C2D1B7B-6ECE-44AE-8443-01AF60542A58@major-k.de> <6A41765B-B800-4FA6-8F64-A9A969D0B7B1@major-k.de> <17fff9a88c0.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <7778D0F7-FDB0-4512-BFE6-561AE3B3E455@major-k.de> <32247ECF-1AD1-4CBC-9FE5-2F81DFC8C62F@major-k.de> Message-ID: On 2022-04-06 18:16, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > Hi all, > > so sorry, looks like I completely f..... up here. > Sorry for the confusion, not may day... > > See: > Hehe - no worries. So in answer to your original query about wanting to be able to color the icons - the drawing library supports the 'currentColor' attribute in SVG - and this is tied to the 'backgroundColor' property of the image object the drawing is set on. It would only take a small tweak to Brian's extension to make this work - adding `fill="currentColor"` to the path node it generates. Brian's extension works by fetching the path data from the IconSVG library, wrapping it in the necessary SVG XML, and then compiling it with drawingSvgCompile. Irksomely, there does not seem to be any support for marking colors in SVGs as 'currentColor' in any SVG editor we've come across (unless its deeply buried in it). So one strategy there is making sure the colors you want to be configurable in the SVG are set to a known unlikely random color (e.g. #ABCDEF), exporting as SVG XML from the editor and then just doing a global find/replace of (e.g.) #ABCDEF with currentColor. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Apr 6 14:48:23 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 13:48:23 -0500 Subject: drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) always BLACK In-Reply-To: References: <1C2D1B7B-6ECE-44AE-8443-01AF60542A58@major-k.de> <6A41765B-B800-4FA6-8F64-A9A969D0B7B1@major-k.de> <17fff9a88c0.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <7778D0F7-FDB0-4512-BFE6-561AE3B3E455@major-k.de> Message-ID: <105a0f49-0bc1-270c-3f8a-07edb1d6136b@hyperactivesw.com> On 4/6/22 11:13 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >>> Am 06.04.2022 um 17:59 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode: >>> >>> The IDE supports importing SVG images from the Import As Control menu. Does that work any differently? >> not tested (yet). > just tested and THAT works!? There must be more to it than just running drawingSvgCompileIcon, but I can't recall what it is. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From klaus at major-k.de Wed Apr 6 14:51:16 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 20:51:16 +0200 Subject: drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) always BLACK In-Reply-To: <105a0f49-0bc1-270c-3f8a-07edb1d6136b@hyperactivesw.com> References: <1C2D1B7B-6ECE-44AE-8443-01AF60542A58@major-k.de> <6A41765B-B800-4FA6-8F64-A9A969D0B7B1@major-k.de> <17fff9a88c0.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <7778D0F7-FDB0-4512-BFE6-561AE3B3E455@major-k.de> <105a0f49-0bc1-270c-3f8a-07edb1d6136b@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <3C7BF3C7-878D-4F3D-AB8B-CC782E8F7988@major-k.de> Hi Jaques, > Am 06.04.2022 um 20:48 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode : > > On 4/6/22 11:13 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >>>> Am 06.04.2022 um 17:59 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode: >>>> The IDE supports importing SVG images from the Import As Control menu. Does that work any differently? >>> not tested (yet). >> just tested and THAT works!? > There must be more to it than just running drawingSvgCompileIcon, but I can't recall what it is. it was only my fault, I was using wrong syntax! Everything works fine now. > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From brian at milby7.com Wed Apr 6 15:18:09 2022 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 15:18:09 -0400 Subject: drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) always BLACK In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <91CD3240-9439-4877-81AD-9F1B83E0F718@milby7.com> I guess I need to make an update to this library :) Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 6, 2022, at 1:28 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > > On 2022-04-06 18:16, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >> Hi all, >> so sorry, looks like I completely f..... up here. >> Sorry for the confusion, not may day... >> See: >> > > Hehe - no worries. > > So in answer to your original query about wanting to be able to color the icons - the drawing library supports the 'currentColor' attribute in SVG - and this is tied to the 'backgroundColor' property of the image object the drawing is set on. > > It would only take a small tweak to Brian's extension to make this work - adding `fill="currentColor"` to the path node it generates. > > Brian's extension works by fetching the path data from the IconSVG library, wrapping it in the necessary SVG XML, and then compiling it with drawingSvgCompile. > > Irksomely, there does not seem to be any support for marking colors in SVGs as 'currentColor' in any SVG editor we've come across (unless its deeply buried in it). So one strategy there is making sure the colors you want to be configurable in the SVG are set to a known unlikely random color (e.g. #ABCDEF), exporting as SVG XML from the editor and then just doing a global find/replace of (e.g.) #ABCDEF with currentColor. > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > > -- > Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Everyone can create apps > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From klaus at major-k.de Wed Apr 6 15:19:54 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 21:19:54 +0200 Subject: drawingSvgCompileIcon(pIconName) always BLACK In-Reply-To: <91CD3240-9439-4877-81AD-9F1B83E0F718@milby7.com> References: <91CD3240-9439-4877-81AD-9F1B83E0F718@milby7.com> Message-ID: <8B45151C-1CBB-46D8-878D-141CFD47E99D@major-k.de> Hi Brian, > Am 06.04.2022 um 21:18 schrieb Brian Milby via use-livecode : > > I guess I need to make an update to this library :) yo, that would be cool! :-) > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Apr 6, 2022, at 1:28 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: >> >> On 2022-04-06 18:16, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> so sorry, looks like I completely f..... up here. >>> Sorry for the confusion, not may day... >>> See: >>> >> >> Hehe - no worries. >> >> So in answer to your original query about wanting to be able to color the icons - the drawing library supports the 'currentColor' attribute in SVG - and this is tied to the 'backgroundColor' property of the image object the drawing is set on. >> >> It would only take a small tweak to Brian's extension to make this work - adding `fill="currentColor"` to the path node it generates. >> >> Brian's extension works by fetching the path data from the IconSVG library, wrapping it in the necessary SVG XML, and then compiling it with drawingSvgCompile. >> >> Irksomely, there does not seem to be any support for marking colors in SVGs as 'currentColor' in any SVG editor we've come across (unless its deeply buried in it). So one strategy there is making sure the colors you want to be configurable in the SVG are set to a known unlikely random color (e.g. #ABCDEF), exporting as SVG XML from the editor and then just doing a global find/replace of (e.g.) #ABCDEF with currentColor. >> >> Warmest Regards, >> >> Mark. Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From monte at appisle.net Wed Apr 6 18:44:53 2022 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2022 08:44:53 +1000 Subject: Widget properties In-Reply-To: <30167ED7-D04B-4164-A99D-1AC5EB2A68E3@optusnet.com.au> References: <30167ED7-D04B-4164-A99D-1AC5EB2A68E3@optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: I suspect this will be classed as not a bug as there has never been any intention of supporting the properties for widgets as far as I’m aware but it might be worth submitting it anyway and detailing your use case. I think if you look at the old lcVCS discussions on the forums from before my time on the LC team Mark implemented import/export widget in response to my needs there. The properties is really not that worthwhile for widgets as it would only ever support the common object properties like visible, rect etc. Thinking back when I did a PR for the properties soon after LC went open source it should have been deprecated instead of accepting it. I wouldn’t have understood that was the best thing to do at the time though. It really would be better to add all the other object types to the import/export commands. One reason I think it would be good for you to submit a bug report is it could be changed to a docs bug and resolved by deprecating the properties, adding a note about the lack of widget support and the import/export command that can be used there and perhaps opening a feature request to support other objects in import/export. Cheers Monte > On 6 Apr 2022, at 10:03 pm, Neville Smythe via use-livecode wrote: > > Is it not a bug that > > the properties of widget “foo” > > returns empty (for all values of foo)? > > No rect, no visible, no disabled etc, even though these clearly are settable and functional properties of the widget. > > You can > > export widget “foo” to array “bar” > > but that gives the intrinsic properties of the widget not the usual object properties. Oh and don’t forget the reserved word “array” in the above line, that causes an IDE crash (bug 23655 confirmed) > > Neville > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Apr 6 19:39:03 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 16:39:03 -0700 Subject: Widget properties In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <732f0c05-d2b8-2f2f-2817-13127f2cacf7@fourthworld.com> Monte Goulding wrote: > ...there has never been any intention of supporting the properties > for widgets as far as Im aware... If the company wants widgets to be seen as first-class citizens, a little more conformity with existing object syntax would go a long way to making that happen. It's possible for the engine to derive a set of widget properties. If it's not also possible to map that into how "the properties" works that would be very enlightening. FWIW I've had requests to update my 4W Property Sheet tool to special-case for widgets. I tell people I'll take widgets seriously when the company does, and if they do I won't need to update my tool because the existing call to "the properties" that works for everything else will work for widgets. Maybe I've been overestimating the importance of widgets to LC Ltd. Guidance welcome. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Apr 6 19:50:37 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 23:50:37 +0000 Subject: Widget properties In-Reply-To: <732f0c05-d2b8-2f2f-2817-13127f2cacf7@fourthworld.com> References: <732f0c05-d2b8-2f2f-2817-13127f2cacf7@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <7061CA57-88C1-44FC-8186-2F77079F52DC@iotecdigital.com> Poor Widget. The bastard child of Livecode objects. ;-P Bob S > On Apr 6, 2022, at 16:39 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > Monte Goulding wrote: > > > ...there has never been any intention of supporting the properties > > for widgets as far as I’m aware... > > If the company wants widgets to be seen as first-class citizens, a little more conformity with existing object syntax would go a long way to making that happen. > > It's possible for the engine to derive a set of widget properties. If it's not also possible to map that into how "the properties" works that would be very enlightening. > > > FWIW I've had requests to update my 4W Property Sheet tool to special-case for widgets. I tell people I'll take widgets seriously when the company does, and if they do I won't need to update my tool because the existing call to "the properties" that works for everything else will work for widgets. > > Maybe I've been overestimating the importance of widgets to LC Ltd. Guidance welcome. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Wed Apr 6 20:38:50 2022 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2022 10:38:50 +1000 Subject: widget properties In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have submitted the bug report (Bug 23670 ) As others have said, it is not likely this will be considered a high priority bug but it should be on the record. Interestingly eg setting tbar[“textcolor”] to a value and then set the properties of widget “foo" to tbar does work (although the properties are still reported as empty). Many thanks for the reference to Ali’s forum article, which is very helpful. I came across this problem because I am adding listing of all object properties to my nsScriptdatabase utility. Thus in version 2 it will be possible to compare stacks in the database down to the complete saved state of the stack, and so (theoretically) reconstruct the stack. Ali’s post prompts me to add listing the handlers of a widget which could be very useful information. I expect to upload version 2 within a few days. Neville From monte at appisle.net Wed Apr 6 20:50:06 2022 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2022 10:50:06 +1000 Subject: Widget properties In-Reply-To: <732f0c05-d2b8-2f2f-2817-13127f2cacf7@fourthworld.com> References: <732f0c05-d2b8-2f2f-2817-13127f2cacf7@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <3103BF5D-B881-47D4-99EE-8EF5536A4101@appisle.net> > On 7 Apr 2022, at 9:39 am, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > Monte Goulding wrote: > > > ...there has never been any intention of supporting the properties > > for widgets as far as I’m aware... > > If the company wants widgets to be seen as first-class citizens, a little more conformity with existing object syntax would go a long way to making that happen. > > It's possible for the engine to derive a set of widget properties. If it's not also possible to map that into how "the properties" works that would be very enlightening. > > > FWIW I've had requests to update my 4W Property Sheet tool to special-case for widgets. I tell people I'll take widgets seriously when the company does, and if they do I won't need to update my tool because the existing call to "the properties" that works for everything else will work for widgets. > > Maybe I've been overestimating the importance of widgets to LC Ltd. Guidance welcome. It seems a stretch to imply the lack of support for a property that has little to no use case outside the IDE means the company doesn’t take widgets seriously but I’m not going to argue with you about that. I will say there’s two main use cases for `the properties` and neither of them it serves very well: - Getting the properties of an object to apply to recreate the object elsewhere. export widget does a much better job of this and was designed specifically for that use case. In some variants of this use case the copy command is much simpler to use here too. - Introspecting what properties an object has in order to create an editor without maintaining your own lists of properties. It has never been good at this. It doesn’t tell you anything about acceptable values for those properties, it doesn’t tell you the importance of the property, it doesn’t tell you about alternative object properties that may be more useful to edit (text, styledText, htmlText, rtfText etc) or whether it’s potentially risky to present a UI that can edit it. Really this use case is served best by a well documented library that covers all objects. Currently you would need to dig the details out of the IDE scripts Cheers Monte From ahsoftware at sonic.net Wed Apr 6 20:58:09 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 17:58:09 -0700 Subject: Widget properties In-Reply-To: <732f0c05-d2b8-2f2f-2817-13127f2cacf7@fourthworld.com> References: <732f0c05-d2b8-2f2f-2817-13127f2cacf7@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <98ce8a88-3b22-169c-e694-3ae981a89454@sonic.net> On 4/6/22 16:39, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > ...there has never been any intention of supporting the properties > > for widgets as far as Im aware... > > If the company wants widgets to be seen as first-class citizens, a > little more conformity with existing object syntax would go a long way > to making that happen. Adding to that is the incoming LCS widget architecture, so I'm not putting deep learning time into something I'll just have to unlearn when the next wave hits. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Apr 6 21:25:58 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 18:25:58 -0700 Subject: Widget properties In-Reply-To: <3103BF5D-B881-47D4-99EE-8EF5536A4101@appisle.net> References: <3103BF5D-B881-47D4-99EE-8EF5536A4101@appisle.net> Message-ID: <486e33ef-40a9-3c79-b0b2-240773317a28@fourthworld.com> Monte Goulding wrote: > It seems a stretch to imply the lack of support for a property that > has little to no use case outside the IDE means the company doesnt > take widgets seriously but Im not going to argue with you about that. A reasonable choice, given that "seriously" is a colloquialism with no specific quantifiable meaning. Here I used it to try to elicit LC's vision for widgets. I had the (quite possibly mistaken) notion that widgets were a way to craft reusable controls that would look and feel like engine objects, but with the advantage that they could be created from a scripting language. We see many queries here about messages common to all other controls not working with widgets, and now and then we see queries about properties and functions too. "The properties" is just the latest of these, and your view of that here is helpful: > I will say theres two main use cases for `the properties` and neither > of them it serves very well: > > - Getting the properties of an object to apply to recreate the object > elsewhere. export widget does a much better job of this and was > designed specifically for that use case. Can you help me understand how it's better than "the properties", and why this superior method isn't used for engine controls? > - Introspecting what properties an object has in order to create an > editor without maintaining your own lists of properties. It has never > been good at this. It doesnt tell you anything about acceptable > values for those properties, it doesnt tell you the importance of > the property, it doesnt tell you about alternative object properties > that may be more useful to edit (text, styledText, htmlText, rtfText > etc) or whether its potentially risky to present a UI that can edit > it. Really this use case is served best by a well documented library > that covers all objects. Currently you would need to dig the details > out of the IDE scripts That seems to answer the first question, though while the metadata about types and options is useful for some things, it would still be useful to get just the name-value pairs as "the properties" does. That the company has such a narrowly specific view of the applicability of "the properties" is indeed helpful. Thank you for chiming in. I use "the properties" in a great many things, even outside the IDE tools, though those are about half of everything I've been doing as one of the few people outside the company working full-time with LC for as long as I have. Much of what I do is bespoke authoring systems, and frequently they're implemented as plugins. This is something I love about xTalks, and the SC/MC/LC philosophy that's driven the post-HC world. SC's Bill Appleton summed it up well when he once said: "HyperCard is a multimedia authoring system. SuperCard is a tool you can use to build multimedia authoring systems." For myself, and a good many others I know, the value of making tools is not limited to the IDE team, but a core value and key differentiator of choosing LiveCode. I have lot of ways to make software. But few of them let me redefine the workflow as flexibly as an xTalk. And no xTalk has been as flexible as LiveCode. It's like the difference between a drawing program and a scriptable drawing program, or between Wordpress and Drupal, or between a sculpture and modeling clay. I appreciate your team making an IDE, but for most of us who make our living with it it's only part of the toolset we use. On the more consumer-facing side which may better fit a view in which tooling is seen as for the engine team only, consider styling: When we set "the properties" of an object, it affects only the keys present, leaving everything else alone. This means we can make arrays with any subset of relevant attributes we want, and apply them almost like style sheets with just one line. We can even save these prop subsets to disk as LSON files if we like, so we can reuse them, mixing and matching from screen to screen and project to project as we like. In fact, using "the properties" has become such a habit across so much of what I do I have to admit that I need to think about it to list them all, in the way a fish struggles to define water. Arrays are a great foundational data type, and being able to express controls with them efficiently and uniformly is a godsend. From my perspective, perhaps no less limited than someone who works all day on the IDE but coming at it from a different angle, the question seems less interesting as "Why is this useful?" than "How could it not be?" Let me simplify the question: How hard would it be for the team to map the existing means of extracting widget properties to "the properties"? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Apr 6 21:36:12 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 18:36:12 -0700 Subject: Widget properties In-Reply-To: <98ce8a88-3b22-169c-e694-3ae981a89454@sonic.net> References: <98ce8a88-3b22-169c-e694-3ae981a89454@sonic.net> Message-ID: <9d7e4461-4d12-b30b-1402-2099cffaf577@fourthworld.com> Mark Wieder wrote: > On 4/6/22 16:39, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > >> > ...there has never been any intention of supporting the properties >> > for widgets as far as Im aware... >> >> If the company wants widgets to be seen as first-class citizens, a >> little more conformity with existing object syntax would go a long >> way to making that happen. > > > Adding to that is the incoming LCS widget architecture, so I'm not > putting deep learning time into something I'll just have to unlearn > when the next wave hits. Succinctly put. Back when Ben was fleshing out the "before" and "after" messaging options, and the object-local mirror of the selectGroupedControls property for groups, and other such things that have made the DataGrid such a joy to work with, I had high hopes that this effort to encapsulate compound objects durably would continue. I'm very excited by the choice to return to that effort. LCB is a fine language, and I'm as envious of its indexed arrays as I am mystified why they haven't found their way into LCS. But it's so easy to make compound objects in LCS I haven't been able to justify the time to learn a similar-but-incompatible language. So soon we will have three classes of objects: engine-native, widgets, and whatever the LCS-based widgets are called. It would be great to have a single robust, uniform serialization for their attributes. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Wed Apr 6 22:04:07 2022 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2022 12:04:07 +1000 Subject: widget properties In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5593C51B-2909-4290-B6C1-CEC6121513B0@optusnet.com.au> Just a point of clarification; Ali’s post does not explain how to access the object properties of a widget. The properties returned by put the keys of (revIDEExtensionProperties("com.livecode.widget.foo")) are the intrinsic properties of the widget, which these days are accessible via the export widget “foo” to array tBar command. They are not the ordinary object properties such as its rect, visibility etc. My current workaround is to just make up a list of likely properties names, for example those of a group, deleting the few properties obviously specific to a group. Unfortunately LC doesn’t respond with a “object does not have this property” error message if you query any old reserved property key for a widget. An alternative would be to go through the properties shown in the Property Inspector deleting the intrinsic properties specific to the widget; but some intrinsic properties are also common object properties, eg showBorder, depending on the widget you choose, and further I am not entirely sure that the Property Inspector actually exposes all the properties of an object (?). It also lists interdependent properties (loc <- rect) which should not be returned by the properties function. Neville From monte at appisle.net Wed Apr 6 22:06:37 2022 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2022 12:06:37 +1000 Subject: Widget properties In-Reply-To: <486e33ef-40a9-3c79-b0b2-240773317a28@fourthworld.com> References: <3103BF5D-B881-47D4-99EE-8EF5536A4101@appisle.net> <486e33ef-40a9-3c79-b0b2-240773317a28@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <5CE95C1C-0D42-48B1-88A4-42B92D9B877F@appisle.net> > On 7 Apr 2022, at 11:25 am, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > > I will say there’s two main use cases for `the properties` and neither > > of them it serves very well: > > > > - Getting the properties of an object to apply to recreate the object > > elsewhere. export widget does a much better job of this and was > > designed specifically for that use case. > > Can you help me understand how it's better than "the properties", and why this superior method isn't used for engine controls? > Because the array created by export and used by import contains the state of the widget as is saved when saving the stack. The content may or may not be the same as the property names exposed to user scripts but a widget created with that state should be the same as if it were saved in the stack and the stack re-opened. > > > - Introspecting what properties an object has in order to create an > > editor without maintaining your own lists of properties. It has never > > been good at this. It doesn’t tell you anything about acceptable > > values for those properties, it doesn’t tell you the importance of > > the property, it doesn’t tell you about alternative object properties > > that may be more useful to edit (text, styledText, htmlText, rtfText > > etc) or whether it’s potentially risky to present a UI that can edit > > it. Really this use case is served best by a well documented library > > that covers all objects. Currently you would need to dig the details > > out of the IDE scripts > > That seems to answer the first question, though while the metadata about types and options is useful for some things, it would still be useful to get just the name-value pairs as "the properties" does. > > That the company has such a narrowly specific view of the applicability of "the properties" is indeed helpful. Thank you for chiming in. I’m not the company. Mark may spend a lot more time pondering the utility of `the properties` than I do and indeed may have a different opinion. Indeed my opinion was much closer to yours is now when I sent in a PR for LC 6.1 all those years ago ;-) > Let me simplify the question: > > How hard would it be for the team to map the existing means of extracting widget properties to "the properties”? I don’t think it would be particularly tricky to iterate the exported property definitions to come up with a list of property names then turn that into a key/value array. Whether it would provide the utility you are looking for is a separate question. Cheers Monte From tom at makeshyft.com Wed Apr 6 23:01:14 2022 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 23:01:14 -0400 Subject: Widget properties In-Reply-To: <5CE95C1C-0D42-48B1-88A4-42B92D9B877F@appisle.net> References: <3103BF5D-B881-47D4-99EE-8EF5536A4101@appisle.net> <486e33ef-40a9-3c79-b0b2-240773317a28@fourthworld.com> <5CE95C1C-0D42-48B1-88A4-42B92D9B877F@appisle.net> Message-ID: At the conference I will announce a plugin, which will have the code read and write widget properties. The code for the plugin will be on github. I'm insanely busy at the moment, so I can't accelerate the release. No magic, just hardcoded property names. :) On Wed, Apr 6, 2022 at 10:08 PM Monte Goulding via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > On 7 Apr 2022, at 11:25 am, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > > I will say there’s two main use cases for `the properties` and neither > > > of them it serves very well: > > > > > > - Getting the properties of an object to apply to recreate the object > > > elsewhere. export widget does a much better job of this and was > > > designed specifically for that use case. > > > > Can you help me understand how it's better than "the properties", and > why this superior method isn't used for engine controls? > > > > Because the array created by export and used by import contains the state > of the widget as is saved when saving the stack. The content may or may not > be the same as the property names exposed to user scripts but a widget > created with that state should be the same as if it were saved in the stack > and the stack re-opened. > > > > > > - Introspecting what properties an object has in order to create an > > > editor without maintaining your own lists of properties. It has never > > > been good at this. It doesn’t tell you anything about acceptable > > > values for those properties, it doesn’t tell you the importance of > > > the property, it doesn’t tell you about alternative object properties > > > that may be more useful to edit (text, styledText, htmlText, rtfText > > > etc) or whether it’s potentially risky to present a UI that can edit > > > it. Really this use case is served best by a well documented library > > > that covers all objects. Currently you would need to dig the details > > > out of the IDE scripts > > > > That seems to answer the first question, though while the metadata about > types and options is useful for some things, it would still be useful to > get just the name-value pairs as "the properties" does. > > > > That the company has such a narrowly specific view of the applicability > of "the properties" is indeed helpful. Thank you for chiming in. > > I’m not the company. Mark may spend a lot more time pondering the utility > of `the properties` than I do and indeed may have a different opinion. > Indeed my opinion was much closer to yours is now when I sent in a PR for > LC 6.1 all those years ago ;-) > > > Let me simplify the question: > > > > How hard would it be for the team to map the existing means of > extracting widget properties to "the properties”? > > I don’t think it would be particularly tricky to iterate the exported > property definitions to come up with a list of property names then turn > that into a key/value array. Whether it would provide the utility you are > looking for is a separate question. > > Cheers > > Monte > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ahsoftware at sonic.net Thu Apr 7 01:15:48 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 22:15:48 -0700 Subject: widget properties In-Reply-To: <5593C51B-2909-4290-B6C1-CEC6121513B0@optusnet.com.au> References: <5593C51B-2909-4290-B6C1-CEC6121513B0@optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <96b8493d-60d0-a70c-2970-b5e694aba1d1@sonic.net> On 4/6/22 19:04, Neville Smythe via use-livecode wrote: > Unfortunately LC doesnt respond with a object does not have this property error message if you query any old reserved property key for a widget. It's actually even worse. The clock widget, for instance: The exported array contains special color options. These appear in the property inspector colors pane. You can set the backgroundColor. You can query the backgroundColor. But it doesn't appear in the property inspector colors pane. It also doesn't appear in the custom properties pane. It does maintain a reasonable value, but it doesn't do anything. But it *is* serializable. So does that qualify as a "property" of the widget? Seems like it might be useful as a way to store "secret" information: passwords, api keys, etc. that won't appear anywhere and you have to know about them to query for them in the first place. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Apr 7 02:24:53 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 23:24:53 -0700 Subject: Widget properties In-Reply-To: <5CE95C1C-0D42-48B1-88A4-42B92D9B877F@appisle.net> References: <5CE95C1C-0D42-48B1-88A4-42B92D9B877F@appisle.net> Message-ID: <3e8b82d3-fce9-3010-8cc2-0c489970804e@fourthworld.com> Thank you for your reply, Monte. Comments inline: Monte Goulding wrote: >> On 7 Apr 2022, at 11:25 am, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> Can you help me understand how it's better than "the properties", >> and why this superior method isn't used for engine controls? > > Because the array created by export and used by import contains > the state of the widget as is saved when saving the stack. The > content may or may not be the same as the property names exposed > to user scripts but a widget created with that state should be > the same as if it were saved in the stack and the stack re-opened. I've never used a widget in production yet, so I can't say I have an opinion there. If the uses for widgets are viewed as sufficiently different from engine-based controls that "the properties" so many of us enjoy wouldn't apply, I'm okay with that. Just looking to understand. >> That the company has such a narrowly specific view of the >> applicability of "the properties" is indeed helpful. Thank >> you for chiming in. > > Im not the company. Pardon my imprecision. I think the readers here are likely aware that the company is comprised of many people, and there are likely many different opinions on a wide range of topics, including this. Please read that as "a significant member of the company". > Mark may spend a lot more time pondering the utility of `the > properties` than I do and indeed may have a different opinion. > Indeed my opinion was much closer to yours is now when I sent > in a PR for LC 6.1 all those years ago ;-) One of the challenges with a tool as vastly capable as LiveCode is wrapping one's head around all the use-cases, and all the perceived priorities. Various members of the company and the community have expressed a wide range of opinions on many things. If "the properties" winds up being like the pointer tool requests I used to ask about, no worries. I stopped asking about those years ago. Indeed, even with "the properties" I've had a few discussions on this with different team members going back to Dr Brett, back when LCB was in its earliest stages. In my own mind having two different methods for obtaining property data for two classes of objects is akin to having two different words for "rect" or other basic features. Where a useful implementation has been chosen and established so long ago, it seems worth mirroring in new implementations. But TBH, since I haven't used widgets in production at all, the only time it comes to mind is when someone asks me about it for one of my tools, or in discussions like this one. This seemed a good time to see what the current vision is. I appreciate the clarity provided. >> How hard would it be for the team to map the existing means of >> extracting widget properties to "the properties? > > I dont think it would be particularly tricky to iterate the exported > property definitions to come up with a list of property names then > turn that into a key/value array. Whether it would provide the utility > you are looking for is a separate question. If it does what "the properties" does it would suit my needs. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu Apr 7 06:52:14 2022 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2022 13:52:14 +0300 Subject: Widget properties In-Reply-To: <3e8b82d3-fce9-3010-8cc2-0c489970804e@fourthworld.com> References: <5CE95C1C-0D42-48B1-88A4-42B92D9B877F@appisle.net> <3e8b82d3-fce9-3010-8cc2-0c489970804e@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Here's my 25p's worth: Ever since widgets 'appeared' I have thought of them as second class citizens insofar as: 1. They are 'bits of stuff' where experts (the LiveCode team and so on) have done the heavy lifting for those of us who haven't got the skill, motivation or time to work out how to get that sort of thing together in LiveCode itself. 2. I certainly never get into widgets when I teach computer programming for a number of reasons: 2.1. While I teach children to program with LiveCode, the ultimate aim is to equip them with a series of transferrable skills they can take 'to the table' of any programming language: the ability to drop in a prepackaged 'does-it-for-you' add-on (one of the things that sets my teeth on edge about Python) does not, as far as I am concerned, constitute computer programming as such. Of course people might start shouting at me, at this point, and say, "Well then, why don't you go back to command-line programming?", to which my riposte is, "That's why I START my programming with teenagers (it's a bit too much for preteens) with BASIC programming on my BBC Micro machines I have lovingly curated in my school." After a day or two with BBC BASIC on a black screen teenagers will "do anything for me" when they see the, supposedly, old-fashioned LiveCode IDE and the ever-so-sexy WYSIWYG GUI. 2.2. While a LiveCode button can be examined via its property inspector, a widget largely cannot, so a learner cannot really begin to understand how it is put together. 3. Widgets are, undoubtedly very clever insofar as they provide tools and services out of the box, and types like myself don't have to spend an awful lot of effort working out how to roll our own. 4. I suppose the 'price' of a widget is just exactly that one cannot really get t its underpinnings (properties) in quite the way one can withg a native LiveCode object. Having said all this, I don't use widgets (beyond fooling around with them when I have a spare moment), and on my teaching computers the widgets section of the revTools palette is never exposed. Were widgets to be "integrated" into LiveCode as per buttons, fields, images and so forth, with properties palettes allowing a vast number of variables to be accessible, my attitude towards them might change; but that seems unlikely to happen as they are quite different beasts to buttons, fields, images and so on. Best, Richmond. On 7.04.22 9:24, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > Thank you for your reply, Monte. Comments inline: > > Monte Goulding wrote: > >> On 7 Apr 2022, at 11:25 am, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> Can you help me understand how it's better than "the properties", > >> and why this superior method isn't used for engine controls? > > > > Because the array created by export and used by import contains > > the state of the widget as is saved when saving the stack. The > > content may or may not be the same as the property names exposed > > to user scripts but a widget created with that state should be > > the same as if it were saved in the stack and the stack re-opened. > > I've never used a widget in production yet, so I can't say I have an > opinion there.  If the uses for widgets are viewed as sufficiently > different from engine-based controls that "the properties" so many of > us enjoy wouldn't apply, I'm okay with that. Just looking to understand. > > > >> That the company has such a narrowly specific view of the > >> applicability of "the properties" is indeed helpful. Thank > >> you for chiming in. > > > > Im not the company. > > Pardon my imprecision. I think the readers here are likely aware that > the company is comprised of many people, and there are likely many > different opinions on a wide range of topics, including this.  Please > read that as "a significant member of the company". > > > > Mark may spend a lot more time pondering the utility of `the > > properties` than I do and indeed may have a different opinion. > > Indeed my opinion was much closer to yours is now when I sent > > in a PR for LC 6.1 all those years ago ;-) > > One of the challenges with a tool as vastly capable as LiveCode is > wrapping one's head around all the use-cases, and all the perceived > priorities.  Various members of the company and the community have > expressed a wide range of opinions on many things. > > If "the properties" winds up being like the pointer tool requests I > used to ask about, no worries. I stopped asking about those years ago. > > Indeed, even with "the properties" I've had a few discussions on this > with different team members going back to Dr Brett, back when LCB was > in its earliest stages. > > In my own mind having two different methods for obtaining property > data for two classes of objects is akin to having two different words > for "rect" or other basic features.  Where a useful implementation has > been chosen and established so long ago, it seems worth mirroring in > new implementations. > > But TBH, since I haven't used widgets in production at all, the only > time it comes to mind is when someone asks me about it for one of my > tools, or in discussions like this one. This seemed a good time to see > what the current vision is. I appreciate the clarity provided. > > > >> How hard would it be for the team to map the existing means of > >> extracting widget properties to "the properties? > > > > I dont think it would be particularly tricky to iterate the exported > > property definitions to come up with a list of property names then > > turn that into a key/value array. Whether it would provide the utility > > you are looking for is a separate question. > > If it does what "the properties" does it would suit my needs. > From harrison at all-auctions.com Thu Apr 7 12:57:12 2022 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2022 12:57:12 -0400 Subject: Ken Burns LC Stack In-Reply-To: <96b8493d-60d0-a70c-2970-b5e694aba1d1@sonic.net> References: <5593C51B-2909-4290-B6C1-CEC6121513B0@optusnet.com.au> <96b8493d-60d0-a70c-2970-b5e694aba1d1@sonic.net> Message-ID: <893094C3-9FE7-4C41-B423-74D2186D5B82@all-auctions.com> I downloaded the Ken Burns LC Stack and found that it doesn’t seem to work. Is anyone else finding it doesn’t work? Thanks, Rick From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Thu Apr 7 13:47:02 2022 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2022 13:47:02 -0400 Subject: JWT Token Decode In-Reply-To: <893094C3-9FE7-4C41-B423-74D2186D5B82@all-auctions.com> References: <5593C51B-2909-4290-B6C1-CEC6121513B0@optusnet.com.au> <96b8493d-60d0-a70c-2970-b5e694aba1d1@sonic.net> <893094C3-9FE7-4C41-B423-74D2186D5B82@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: <006c01d84aa7$7fb51f80$7f1f5e80$@net> Subject says it all. Has anyone done this in LC? In JavaScript it's decodeURIComponent. Thanks! Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net From jiml at netrin.com Thu Apr 7 15:17:31 2022 From: jiml at netrin.com (Jim Lambert) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2022 12:17:31 -0700 Subject: Widget properties In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0557A8C3-995A-4E48-B612-41EB8CACF78D@netrin.com> > After a day or two with BBC BASIC on a black screen teenagers will "do > anything for me" when they see the, supposedly, > old-fashioned LiveCode IDE and the ever-so-sexy WYSIWYG GUI. Using the ol' psychology on 'em. Wily! From brian at milby7.com Thu Apr 7 22:11:28 2022 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2022 22:11:28 -0400 Subject: Mobile Image Editing Message-ID: Greetings list people! I am currently working on a project where we will be editing images on a mobile device. I'm running into an issue where the formatted height and width of the image change. Most of the images are natively 1600x1200 but we initially display them scaled to fit on the screen. When the user does any edit action at a zoomed out level, the image is downsized to the current zoom. Once downsized, if you zoom in on the image and edit, the formatted size doesn't change. Is there any way around this? What we would really like is to edit the image and keep it at the full resolution. We are currently using the native LiveCode paint/bucket tools. Although most of my testing is in the IDE at the moment, we do use resize handlers to format for the actual device resolution. Thanks for any thoughts or pointers, Brian From devin_asay at byu.edu Fri Apr 8 10:58:08 2022 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2022 14:58:08 +0000 Subject: OSS installer for Linux? Message-ID: Hi all, Does anyone still have the Community installer for LiveCode 9.6.3 Linux? I have a colleague I’m trying to show LC to, but he’s reluctant to d/l the trial version. - Devin Devin Asay Office of Digital Humanities Brigham Young University From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Fri Apr 8 11:03:03 2022 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2022 18:03:03 +0300 Subject: OSS installer for Linux? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: https://archive.org/download/live-code-community-linux-x64/LiveCodeCommunityInstaller-9_6_3-Linux.x64 On 8.04.22 17:58, Devin Asay via use-livecode wrote: > Hi all, > > Does anyone still have the Community installer for LiveCode 9.6.3 Linux? I have a colleague Im trying to show LC to, but hes reluctant to d/l the trial version. > > - Devin > > Devin Asay > Office of Digital Humanities > Brigham Young University > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From devin_asay at byu.edu Fri Apr 8 11:34:33 2022 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2022 15:34:33 +0000 Subject: OSS installer for Linux? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6769D413-80F1-4EA0-ABAD-0E4B04A25E82@byu.edu> Thanks, Richmond! On Apr 8, 2022, at 9:03 AM, Richmond via use-livecode > wrote: https://archive.org/download/live-code-community-linux-x64/LiveCodeCommunityInstaller-9_6_3-Linux.x64 On 8.04.22 17:58, Devin Asay via use-livecode wrote: Hi all, Does anyone still have the Community installer for LiveCode 9.6.3 Linux? I have a colleague I’m trying to show LC to, but he’s reluctant to d/l the trial version. - Devin Devin Asay Office of Digital Humanities Brigham Young University _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode Devin Asay Office of Digital Humanities Brigham Young University From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Fri Apr 8 14:03:48 2022 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2022 14:03:48 -0400 Subject: Apple App Store Server Notifications [was JWT Token Decode] In-Reply-To: <006c01d84aa7$7fb51f80$7f1f5e80$@net> References: <5593C51B-2909-4290-B6C1-CEC6121513B0@optusnet.com.au> <96b8493d-60d0-a70c-2970-b5e694aba1d1@sonic.net> <893094C3-9FE7-4C41-B423-74D2186D5B82@all-auctions.com> <006c01d84aa7$7fb51f80$7f1f5e80$@net> Message-ID: <003801d84b73$02592af0$070b80d0$@net> Apple App Store Server Notifications sends transaction data to your server. It is especially good for in-app purchase refunds. If you had previously recorded the transaction ID of the original purchase you can match it up to the server notification and attach it to a user. When you use the App Store Server Notifications you receive(in Post Raw) either standard issue JSON(v1) or JWT(v2). I was using v1. When v2 was offered the description said you get more events with v2. So I went with v2 and got into the JWT issue. I was able to get the data out of the JWT but I'm still figuring out the verification. JWT is 3 period delimited base 64 encoded items. Header, Payload and Signature. JWT is not encrypted but by using the header and signature you can see if the payload has been manipulated or has dropped/scrambled bits Because the hash will not match. The payload(base 64 encoded) contains some the previously observed v1 JSON data. The actual transaction data is in a JSON element as another JWT encoded string. Again you base 64 decode item 2(period delimited) the transaction data and viola the remaining v1 JSON transaction elements are there. JWT uses Base 64 URL encoding. The "+" and "/" are substituted with "-" and "_" so A JWT can exist in a URL without any problems. Just scratching the surface of this giant headache. I now have the both payloads JSON but have to figure out how to verify the hash. I'm no worse off than the v1 straight up JSON but "inquiring minds want to know". Film at 11. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Apr 8 14:49:13 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2022 13:49:13 -0500 Subject: Mobile Image Editing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9b9072af-1693-2f5b-134c-a27193384ef6@hyperactivesw.com> I'm not sure I understand. When you "downsize" do you mean you're scaling? Or are you creating a new image? Or cropping the original? On 4/7/22 9:11 PM, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote: > Greetings list people! > > I am currently working on a project where we will be editing images on a > mobile device. I'm running into an issue where the formatted height and > width of the image change. Most of the images are natively 1600x1200 but > we initially display them scaled to fit on the screen. When the user does > any edit action at a zoomed out level, the image is downsized to the > current zoom. Once downsized, if you zoom in on the image and edit, the > formatted size doesn't change. > > Is there any way around this? What we would really like is to edit the > image and keep it at the full resolution. > > We are currently using the native LiveCode paint/bucket tools. Although > most of my testing is in the IDE at the moment, we do use resize handlers > to format for the actual device resolution. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From brian at milby7.com Fri Apr 8 15:02:34 2022 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2022 15:02:34 -0400 Subject: Mobile Image Editing In-Reply-To: <9b9072af-1693-2f5b-134c-a27193384ef6@hyperactivesw.com> References: <9b9072af-1693-2f5b-134c-a27193384ef6@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: The image on the card it 320x200 (rough, for discussion). The file is 1280x800. I do an import as paint and the formatted size matches the file initially. Fill/draw anything and the formatted size is now the same as the object. I’m saying it is downsized (scaled down). If I zoom in so the object is 640x400 (some not visible as it is off the card), then edit the formatted size changes to match. Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 8, 2022, at 2:50 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > > I'm not sure I understand. When you "downsize" do you mean you're scaling? Or are you creating a new image? Or cropping the original? > >> On 4/7/22 9:11 PM, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote: >> Greetings list people! >> I am currently working on a project where we will be editing images on a >> mobile device. I'm running into an issue where the formatted height and >> width of the image change. Most of the images are natively 1600x1200 but >> we initially display them scaled to fit on the screen. When the user does >> any edit action at a zoomed out level, the image is downsized to the >> current zoom. Once downsized, if you zoom in on the image and edit, the >> formatted size doesn't change. >> Is there any way around this? What we would really like is to edit the >> image and keep it at the full resolution. >> We are currently using the native LiveCode paint/bucket tools. Although >> most of my testing is in the IDE at the moment, we do use resize handlers >> to format for the actual device resolution. > > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From klaus at major-k.de Mon Apr 11 13:51:35 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2022 19:51:35 +0200 Subject: Localizing e.g. "Answer dialog" featuzre reques = hibernated? Message-ID: <343444A5-DBE6-496E-A01A-0A59B24A4AF1@major-k.de> Hi all, some time ago I "feature requested" a possibility to localize e.g. the "Answer Dialog": Example: Cancel = english, which is always displayed currently Annuler = french Abbrechen = german All these are much longer words, so just setting the label of that button will not suffice. Bernd Niggeman provided a nifty solution for this inconvenience. But why on earth has this been "Hibernated"? Don't we all think that we should be able to localize all aspectcs of LC? Not the whole world is speaking english, ladies and gentlemen! Maybe you want to add a comment, thank you! Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon Apr 11 14:00:26 2022 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2022 21:00:26 +0300 Subject: Localizing e.g. "Answer dialog" featuzre reques = hibernated? In-Reply-To: <343444A5-DBE6-496E-A01A-0A59B24A4AF1@major-k.de> References: <343444A5-DBE6-496E-A01A-0A59B24A4AF1@major-k.de> Message-ID: Ah cud spak , an, aiblins it micht be mensefu, anent ither leids, but Ah jalouse that fowk widnae thole war jalouse qhat Ah wis ettlin an speiran eftir. On Mon, 11 Apr 2022, 20:52 Klaus major-k via use-livecode, < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi all, > > some time ago I "feature requested" a possibility to localize e.g. the > "Answer Dialog": > > > Example: > Cancel = english, which is always displayed currently > Annuler = french > Abbrechen = german > All these are much longer words, so just setting the label of that button > will not suffice. > Bernd Niggeman provided a nifty solution for this inconvenience. > > But why on earth has this been "Hibernated"? > > Don't we all think that we should be able to localize all aspectcs of LC? > Not the whole world is speaking english, ladies and gentlemen! > > Maybe you want to add a comment, thank you! > > > Best > > Klaus > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > https://www.major-k.de/bass > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Apr 12 11:29:19 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2022 15:29:19 +0000 Subject: Localizing e.g. "Answer dialog" featuzre reques = hibernated? In-Reply-To: References: <343444A5-DBE6-496E-A01A-0A59B24A4AF1@major-k.de> Message-ID: My thoughts exactly! Bob S > On Apr 11, 2022, at 11:00 , Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: > > Ah cud spak , an, aiblins it micht be mensefu, anent ither leids, but Ah > jalouse that fowk widnae thole war jalouse qhat Ah wis ettlin an speiran > eftir. > > On Mon, 11 Apr 2022, 20:52 Klaus major-k via use-livecode, < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> some time ago I "feature requested" a possibility to localize e.g. the >> "Answer Dialog": >> >> >> Example: >> Cancel = english, which is always displayed currently >> Annuler = french >> Abbrechen = german >> All these are much longer words, so just setting the label of that button >> will not suffice. >> Bernd Niggeman provided a nifty solution for this inconvenience. >> >> But why on earth has this been "Hibernated"? >> >> Don't we all think that we should be able to localize all aspectcs of LC? >> Not the whole world is speaking english, ladies and gentlemen! >> >> Maybe you want to add a comment, thank you! >> >> >> Best >> >> Klaus >> -- >> Klaus Major >> https://www.major-k.de >> https://www.major-k.de/bass >> klaus at major-k.de >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Tue Apr 12 14:15:02 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2022 20:15:02 +0200 Subject: Localizing e.g. "Answer dialog" featuzre reques = hibernated? In-Reply-To: References: <343444A5-DBE6-496E-A01A-0A59B24A4AF1@major-k.de> Message-ID: <1EDEF2E0-3ED8-417D-A75F-BC25BF054A7E@m-r-d.de> Maybe I would agree, too, if I understood what Richmond wrote. ;) Tried even Google translate for Scottish to German. No success... :) > Am 12.04.2022 um 17:29 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode : > > My thoughts exactly! > > Bob S > > >> On Apr 11, 2022, at 11:00 , Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Ah cud spak , an, aiblins it micht be mensefu, anent ither leids, but Ah >> jalouse that fowk widnae thole war jalouse qhat Ah wis ettlin an speiran >> eftir. >> >> On Mon, 11 Apr 2022, 20:52 Klaus major-k via use-livecode, < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> some time ago I "feature requested" a possibility to localize e.g. the >>> "Answer Dialog": >>> >>> >>> Example: >>> Cancel = english, which is always displayed currently >>> Annuler = french >>> Abbrechen = german >>> All these are much longer words, so just setting the label of that button >>> will not suffice. >>> Bernd Niggeman provided a nifty solution for this inconvenience. >>> >>> But why on earth has this been "Hibernated"? >>> >>> Don't we all think that we should be able to localize all aspectcs of LC? >>> Not the whole world is speaking english, ladies and gentlemen! >>> >>> Maybe you want to add a comment, thank you! >>> >>> >>> Best >>> >>> Klaus >>> -- >>> Klaus Major >>> https://www.major-k.de >>> https://www.major-k.de/bass >>> klaus at major-k.de >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From klaus at major-k.de Tue Apr 12 14:24:21 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2022 20:24:21 +0200 Subject: Localizing e.g. "Answer dialog" featuzre reques = hibernated? In-Reply-To: <1EDEF2E0-3ED8-417D-A75F-BC25BF054A7E@m-r-d.de> References: <343444A5-DBE6-496E-A01A-0A59B24A4AF1@major-k.de> <1EDEF2E0-3ED8-417D-A75F-BC25BF054A7E@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <37297FED-3EC6-4065-A7E1-8C6853827142@major-k.de> Hi all, > Am 12.04.2022 um 20:15 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode : > > Maybe I would agree, too, if I understood what Richmond wrote. ;) > Tried even Google translate for Scottish to German. No success... :) he wrote: Cannot say anything to this issue, but must confuse the list or I will lose my good reputation otherwise. :-D :-D :-D > Am 12.04.2022 um 17:29 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode : >> >> My thoughts exactly! >> >> Bob S >> >> >>> On Apr 11, 2022, at 11:00 , Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> Ah cud spak , an, aiblins it micht be mensefu, anent ither leids, but Ah >>> jalouse that fowk widnae thole war jalouse qhat Ah wis ettlin an speiran >>> eftir. >>> >>> On Mon, 11 Apr 2022, 20:52 Klaus major-k via use-livecode, < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> some time ago I "feature requested" a possibility to localize e.g. the >>>> "Answer Dialog": >>>> >>>> >>>> Example: >>>> Cancel = english, which is always displayed currently >>>> Annuler = french >>>> Abbrechen = german >>>> All these are much longer words, so just setting the label of that button >>>> will not suffice. >>>> Bernd Niggeman provided a nifty solution for this inconvenience. >>>> >>>> But why on earth has this been "Hibernated"? >>>> >>>> Don't we all think that we should be able to localize all aspectcs of LC? >>>> Not the whole world is speaking english, ladies and gentlemen! >>>> >>>> Maybe you want to add a comment, thank you! Best Klaus > -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Apr 12 14:50:13 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2022 18:50:13 +0000 Subject: Localizing e.g. "Answer dialog" featuzre reques = hibernated? In-Reply-To: <37297FED-3EC6-4065-A7E1-8C6853827142@major-k.de> References: <343444A5-DBE6-496E-A01A-0A59B24A4AF1@major-k.de> <1EDEF2E0-3ED8-417D-A75F-BC25BF054A7E@m-r-d.de> <37297FED-3EC6-4065-A7E1-8C6853827142@major-k.de> Message-ID: <864D80BF-F7EA-4C9A-89A4-7919E1F2934E@iotecdigital.com> That is a very loose translation. ;-) Bob S > On Apr 12, 2022, at 11:24 , Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi all, > >> Am 12.04.2022 um 20:15 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode : >> >> Maybe I would agree, too, if I understood what Richmond wrote. ;) >> Tried even Google translate for Scottish to German. No success... :) > > he wrote: > Cannot say anything to this issue, but must confuse the list or I will > lose my good reputation otherwise. > > :-D :-D :-D From sean at pidigital.co.uk Tue Apr 12 15:03:44 2022 From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Pi Digital) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2022 20:03:44 +0100 Subject: Localizing e.g. "Answer dialog" featuzre reques = hibernated? In-Reply-To: <37297FED-3EC6-4065-A7E1-8C6853827142@major-k.de> References: <37297FED-3EC6-4065-A7E1-8C6853827142@major-k.de> Message-ID: <5D2F7900-704C-42F7-93A4-E6F00893D8B2@pidigital.co.uk> Fantastic :D Sean > On 12 Apr 2022, at 19:24, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > > he wrote: > Cannot say anything to this issue, but must confuse the list or I will > lose my good reputation otherwise. > > :-D :-D :-D > >>>> On Apr 11, 2022, at 11:00 , Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: >>>> >>>> Ah cud spak , an, aiblins it micht be mensefu, anent ither leids, but Ah >>>> jalouse that fowk widnae thole war jalouse qhat Ah wis ettlin an speiran >>>> eftir. >>>> >>>> Best > > Klaus From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Apr 12 17:16:59 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2022 21:16:59 +0000 Subject: Standalone Error Dialog Message-ID: <59CC8175-761D-4C7A-9052-4F3173E4F44E@iotecdigital.com> Hi all. Some time ago I began getting an error dialog reporting: 1 File to include in standalone not found: "" This apparently is not causing any issues that I have found, but I would sure like to find out what is causing it and stop it. Is there a Standalone Builder log I can look at? Bob S From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue Apr 12 17:32:45 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2022 16:32:45 -0500 Subject: Standalone Error Dialog In-Reply-To: <59CC8175-761D-4C7A-9052-4F3173E4F44E@iotecdigital.com> References: <59CC8175-761D-4C7A-9052-4F3173E4F44E@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <1801fb17448.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Double check the files in the Copy Files pane of the standalone settings and make sure that the file paths are correct. I'm not aware of a log file for the builder. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On April 12, 2022 4:19:16 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > Hi all. > > Some time ago I began getting an error dialog reporting: > > 1 File to include in standalone not found: "" > > This apparently is not causing any issues that I have found, but I would > sure like to find out what is causing it and stop it. > > Is there a Standalone Builder log I can look at? > > Bob S > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Apr 12 18:51:05 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2022 22:51:05 +0000 Subject: Standalone Error Dialog In-Reply-To: <1801fb17448.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <59CC8175-761D-4C7A-9052-4F3173E4F44E@iotecdigital.com> <1801fb17448.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Ya that is the first place I looked. I even re-added them all one by one. In a prior version of Livecode (I couldn't say which now) this did not happen. When I first noticed it, I went back to that prior version and built a standalone and it did not happen. I can ive with it. Bob S > On Apr 12, 2022, at 14:32 , J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > > Double check the files in the Copy Files pane of the standalone settings and make sure that the file paths are correct. I'm not aware of a log file for the builder. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > On April 12, 2022 4:19:16 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > >> Hi all. >> >> Some time ago I began getting an error dialog reporting: >> >> 1 File to include in standalone not found: "" >> >> This apparently is not causing any issues that I have found, but I would sure like to find out what is causing it and stop it. >> >> Is there a Standalone Builder log I can look at? >> >> Bob S >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Apr 13 02:38:03 2022 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 09:38:03 +0300 Subject: Localizing e.g. "Answer dialog" featuzre reques = hibernated? In-Reply-To: <5D2F7900-704C-42F7-93A4-E6F00893D8B2@pidigital.co.uk> References: <37297FED-3EC6-4065-A7E1-8C6853827142@major-k.de> <5D2F7900-704C-42F7-93A4-E6F00893D8B2@pidigital.co.uk> Message-ID: "Ah cud spak , an, aiblins it micht be mensefu, anent ither leids, but Ah jalouse that fowk widnae thole war jalouse qhat Ah wis ettlin an speiran eftir." Your responses proves my point: 'I could talk about other languages, and, maybe it might make sense, but I suspect people would not agree or understand exactly what I was on about or aiming after.' And as the Scots who do use LiveCode are all perfectly functional in English . . . On Tue, Apr 12, 2022 at 10:04 PM Pi Digital via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Fantastic :D > > Sean > > > > On 12 Apr 2022, at 19:24, Klaus major-k via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > he wrote: > > Cannot say anything to this issue, but must confuse the list or I will > > lose my good reputation otherwise. > > > > :-D :-D :-D > > > >>>> On Apr 11, 2022, at 11:00 , Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Ah cud spak , an, aiblins it micht be mensefu, anent ither leids, but > Ah > >>>> jalouse that fowk widnae thole war jalouse qhat Ah wis ettlin an > speiran > >>>> eftir. > >>>> > >>>> Best > > > > Klaus > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- This communication may be unlawfully collected and stored by the Agents of a large number of governments in secret. The parties to this email do not consent to the retrieving or storing of this communication and any related metadata, as well as printing, copying, re-transmitting, disseminating, or otherwise using it. If you believe you have received this communication in error, please delete it immediately. From paul at researchware.com Wed Apr 13 10:58:57 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 10:58:57 -0400 Subject: Quick Windows 11 test... Message-ID: <552754ae-1e8c-d081-f246-c40340c25eba@researchware.com> Can someone on Windows 11 with either (or both) LC 9.6.6 and 9.6.7 execute put systemVersion() and tell me what is reported? From paul at researchware.com Wed Apr 13 11:03:39 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 11:03:39 -0400 Subject: Quick Windows 11 test... In-Reply-To: <552754ae-1e8c-d081-f246-c40340c25eba@researchware.com> References: <552754ae-1e8c-d081-f246-c40340c25eba@researchware.com> Message-ID: On 4/13/2022 10:58 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > Can someone on Windows 11 with either (or both) LC 9.6.6 and 9.6.7 > execute > > put systemVersion() > > and tell me what is reported? > I would also be really helpful to know exactly what put systemVersion() returns on macOS Monterey for LC 9.6.6 or 9.6.7 as well. From klaus at major-k.de Wed Apr 13 11:09:03 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 17:09:03 +0200 Subject: Quick Windows 11 test... In-Reply-To: References: <552754ae-1e8c-d081-f246-c40340c25eba@researchware.com> Message-ID: <45060647-EBE6-474F-BAC0-F30E3DE4B81C@major-k.de> Hi Paul, > Am 13.04.2022 um 17:03 schrieb Paul Dupuis via use-livecode : > > On 4/13/2022 10:58 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: >> Can someone on Windows 11 with either (or both) LC 9.6.6 and 9.6.7 execute >> >> put systemVersion() >> and tell me what is reported? > > I would also be really helpful to know exactly what > put systemVersion() > returns on macOS Monterey for LC 9.6.6 or 9.6.7 as well. macOS 12.3.1, LC 9.6.7 -> 10.16.0 Same with LC 9.6.6 Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Apr 13 11:12:16 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 17:12:16 +0200 Subject: Quick Windows 11 test... In-Reply-To: <552754ae-1e8c-d081-f246-c40340c25eba@researchware.com> References: <552754ae-1e8c-d081-f246-c40340c25eba@researchware.com> Message-ID: <11A6F21E-4753-4384-8188-53BDE602FB49@m-r-d.de> NT 10.0 > Am 13.04.2022 um 16:58 schrieb Paul Dupuis via use-livecode : > > Can someone on Windows 11 with either (or both) LC 9.6.6 and 9.6.7 execute > > put systemVersion() > > and tell me what is reported? > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From merakosp at gmail.com Wed Apr 13 11:19:44 2022 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis m) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 18:19:44 +0300 Subject: Quick Windows 11 test... In-Reply-To: <11A6F21E-4753-4384-8188-53BDE602FB49@m-r-d.de> References: <552754ae-1e8c-d081-f246-c40340c25eba@researchware.com> <11A6F21E-4753-4384-8188-53BDE602FB49@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: Hello all, The function systemversion() returns 10.16.0 on MacOS Big Sur and above. This is something we should fix. As a workaround, until this is fixed, you can use this to get the system version on MacOS: function mySystemVersion get shell("sw_vers -productVersion") return it end mySystemVersion Cheers, Panos -- On Wed, 13 Apr 2022 at 18:13, matthias rebbe via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > NT 10.0 > > > Am 13.04.2022 um 16:58 schrieb Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: > > > > Can someone on Windows 11 with either (or both) LC 9.6.6 and 9.6.7 > execute > > > > put systemVersion() > > > > and tell me what is reported? > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From klaus at major-k.de Wed Apr 13 11:34:58 2022 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 17:34:58 +0200 Subject: Localizing e.g. "Answer dialog" featuzre reques = hibernated? In-Reply-To: <343444A5-DBE6-496E-A01A-0A59B24A4AF1@major-k.de> References: <343444A5-DBE6-496E-A01A-0A59B24A4AF1@major-k.de> Message-ID: Hi all, OK, all jokes aside, please add a comment to that bug if you agree, so it will hopefully be reopened! > Am 11.04.2022 um 19:51 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode : > > Hi all, > > some time ago I "feature requested" a possibility to localize e.g. the "Answer Dialog": > > Example: > Cancel = english, which is always displayed currently > Annuler = french > Abbrechen = german > All these are much longer words, so just setting the label of that button will not suffice. > Bernd Niggeman provided a nifty solution for this inconvenience. > > But why on earth has this been "Hibernated"? > Don't we all think that we should be able to localize all aspectcs of LC? Of course I only mean all the strings visible to the users of your apps! > Not the whole world is speaking english, ladies and gentlemen! > Maybe you want to add a comment, thank you! Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From paul at researchware.com Wed Apr 13 13:40:04 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 13:40:04 -0400 Subject: Quick Windows 11 test... In-Reply-To: References: <552754ae-1e8c-d081-f246-c40340c25eba@researchware.com> <11A6F21E-4753-4384-8188-53BDE602FB49@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: On 4/13/2022 11:19 AM, panagiotis m via use-livecode wrote: > Hello all, > > The function systemversion() returns 10.16.0 on MacOS Big Sur and above. > This is something we should fix. > > As a workaround, until this is fixed, you can use this to get the system > version on MacOS: > > function mySystemVersion > get shell("sw_vers -productVersion") > return it > end mySystemVersion > > Cheers, > Panos > -- > Panos (or any other LC staffer?) Do you have a companion work-around for Window 11 which where systemVersion() reports "NT 10.0"? From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Apr 13 14:01:17 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 20:01:17 +0200 Subject: Quick Windows 11 test... In-Reply-To: References: <552754ae-1e8c-d081-f246-c40340c25eba@researchware.com> <11A6F21E-4753-4384-8188-53BDE602FB49@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <876B1BAA-D58D-4F6E-9E63-2E534A53E0EC@m-r-d.de> Unfortunately Windows 11 shell command 'version" returns NT 10.0. That's the same value as Windows 10 returns. > Am 13.04.2022 um 19:40 schrieb Paul Dupuis via use-livecode : > > On 4/13/2022 11:19 AM, panagiotis m via use-livecode wrote: >> Hello all, >> >> The function systemversion() returns 10.16.0 on MacOS Big Sur and above. >> This is something we should fix. >> >> As a workaround, until this is fixed, you can use this to get the system >> version on MacOS: >> >> function mySystemVersion >> get shell("sw_vers -productVersion") >> return it >> end mySystemVersion >> >> Cheers, >> Panos >> -- >> > Panos (or any other LC staffer?) > > Do you have a companion work-around for Window 11 which where systemVersion() reports "NT 10.0"? > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Apr 13 14:05:26 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 20:05:26 +0200 Subject: Quick Windows 11 test... In-Reply-To: <876B1BAA-D58D-4F6E-9E63-2E534A53E0EC@m-r-d.de> References: <552754ae-1e8c-d081-f246-c40340c25eba@researchware.com> <11A6F21E-4753-4384-8188-53BDE602FB49@m-r-d.de> <876B1BAA-D58D-4F6E-9E63-2E534A53E0EC@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <5442BE82-C30D-4537-A67D-C5E6ABB8EA83@m-r-d.de> Ups, not 'version' but 'ver' returns 10.0.xxxxxx.x. In my case 10.0.22581.100 Any value above 22000 is Windows 11, any value below of 22000 is Windows 10. > Am 13.04.2022 um 20:01 schrieb matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de: > > Unfortunately Windows 11 shell command 'version" returns NT 10.0. > That's the same value as Windows 10 returns. > > > > > >> Am 13.04.2022 um 19:40 schrieb Paul Dupuis via use-livecode >: >> >> On 4/13/2022 11:19 AM, panagiotis m via use-livecode wrote: >>> Hello all, >>> >>> The function systemversion() returns 10.16.0 on MacOS Big Sur and above. >>> This is something we should fix. >>> >>> As a workaround, until this is fixed, you can use this to get the system >>> version on MacOS: >>> >>> function mySystemVersion >>> get shell("sw_vers -productVersion") >>> return it >>> end mySystemVersion >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Panos >>> -- >>> >> Panos (or any other LC staffer?) >> >> Do you have a companion work-around for Window 11 which where systemVersion() reports "NT 10.0"? >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Apr 13 14:26:09 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 20:26:09 +0200 Subject: Quick Windows 11 test... In-Reply-To: <5442BE82-C30D-4537-A67D-C5E6ABB8EA83@m-r-d.de> References: <552754ae-1e8c-d081-f246-c40340c25eba@researchware.com> <11A6F21E-4753-4384-8188-53BDE602FB49@m-r-d.de> <876B1BAA-D58D-4F6E-9E63-2E534A53E0EC@m-r-d.de> <5442BE82-C30D-4537-A67D-C5E6ABB8EA83@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: This here would return the macOS version and would return Windows 10 on version 10 and Windows 11 on version 11 If you also need this for other Windows version you have to extend it a little bit switch the platform case "Win32" put shell("ver") into tVersion set the itemdelimiter to "." if item 3 of tVersion >22000 then return "Windows 11" else return "Windows 10" end if break case "MacOS" get shell("sw_vers -productVersion") return it break end switch > Am 13.04.2022 um 20:05 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode : > > Ups, > > not 'version' but 'ver' returns 10.0.xxxxxx.x. > In my case 10.0.22581.100 > > > Any value above 22000 is Windows 11, any value below of 22000 is Windows 10. > > >> Am 13.04.2022 um 20:01 schrieb matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de: >> >> Unfortunately Windows 11 shell command 'version" returns NT 10.0. >> That's the same value as Windows 10 returns. >> >> >> >> >> >>> Am 13.04.2022 um 19:40 schrieb Paul Dupuis via use-livecode >: >>> >>> On 4/13/2022 11:19 AM, panagiotis m via use-livecode wrote: >>>> Hello all, >>>> >>>> The function systemversion() returns 10.16.0 on MacOS Big Sur and above. >>>> This is something we should fix. >>>> >>>> As a workaround, until this is fixed, you can use this to get the system >>>> version on MacOS: >>>> >>>> function mySystemVersion >>>> get shell("sw_vers -productVersion") >>>> return it >>>> end mySystemVersion >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Panos >>>> -- >>>> >>> Panos (or any other LC staffer?) >>> >>> Do you have a companion work-around for Window 11 which where systemVersion() reports "NT 10.0"? >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Apr 13 15:12:33 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 21:12:33 +0200 Subject: Quick Windows 11 test... In-Reply-To: References: <552754ae-1e8c-d081-f246-c40340c25eba@researchware.com> <11A6F21E-4753-4384-8188-53BDE602FB49@m-r-d.de> <876B1BAA-D58D-4F6E-9E63-2E534A53E0EC@m-r-d.de> <5442BE82-C30D-4537-A67D-C5E6ABB8EA83@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <5C95C0AE-70B8-46E1-913F-168403DAD8E4@m-r-d.de> Or you could execute this windows shell command in the LC shell() function wmic os get Caption /value which then would return something like this for example Caption=Microsoft Windows 11 Enterprise > Am 13.04.2022 um 20:26 schrieb matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de: > > This here would > > return the macOS version and would return Windows 10 on version 10 and Windows 11 on version 11 > If you also need this for other Windows version you have to extend it a little bit > > > switch the platform > case "Win32" > put shell("ver") into tVersion > set the itemdelimiter to "." > if item 3 of tVersion >22000 > then > return "Windows 11" > else > return "Windows 10" > end if > break > case "MacOS" > get shell("sw_vers -productVersion") > return it > break > end switch > > > > >> Am 13.04.2022 um 20:05 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode >: >> >> Ups, >> >> not 'version' but 'ver' returns 10.0.xxxxxx.x. >> In my case 10.0.22581.100 >> >> >> Any value above 22000 is Windows 11, any value below of 22000 is Windows 10. >> >> >>> Am 13.04.2022 um 20:01 schrieb matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de : >>> >>> Unfortunately Windows 11 shell command 'version" returns NT 10.0. >>> That's the same value as Windows 10 returns. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> Am 13.04.2022 um 19:40 schrieb Paul Dupuis via use-livecode >>: >>>> >>>> On 4/13/2022 11:19 AM, panagiotis m via use-livecode wrote: >>>>> Hello all, >>>>> >>>>> The function systemversion() returns 10.16.0 on MacOS Big Sur and above. >>>>> This is something we should fix. >>>>> >>>>> As a workaround, until this is fixed, you can use this to get the system >>>>> version on MacOS: >>>>> >>>>> function mySystemVersion >>>>> get shell("sw_vers -productVersion") >>>>> return it >>>>> end mySystemVersion >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Panos >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>> Panos (or any other LC staffer?) >>>> >>>> Do you have a companion work-around for Window 11 which where systemVersion() reports "NT 10.0"? >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Wed Apr 13 16:01:59 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 16:01:59 -0400 Subject: Quick Windows 11 test... In-Reply-To: <552754ae-1e8c-d081-f246-c40340c25eba@researchware.com> References: <552754ae-1e8c-d081-f246-c40340c25eba@researchware.com> Message-ID: Thank you to everyone for the responses. I hope that LC 10 will "fix" the systemVersion() to return customer meaningful OS version information, but I recognize that is hard to do when the OS manufacturers (I am looking at YOU Microsoft and Apple) do not update their OS APIs to return the same versions their MARKETING people insist on labeling the OSes as! Grrrrrr! From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Wed Apr 13 21:49:08 2022 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2022 11:49:08 +1000 Subject: widget properties In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: (Bug 23670 ) has been referred by QualityControl to Expert Review, as Panos was not sure whether this is a real bug. As a use-case I have commented that the properties of all controls, including widgets, is needed when comparing stacks for example. In the meantime, I have uploaded version 2 of nsScriptDatabase to Sample Stacks, now optionally allowing adding the properties of objects to the database, so the complete state of a stack is captured, although scripts remain the main focus. When using the "compare stacks” feature I make up a credible list of properties for widgets. Neville From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Wed Apr 13 22:58:27 2022 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2022 12:58:27 +1000 Subject: IAC for Livecode standalones In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <633AC005-E858-4D6E-870B-D26A4A9BE7FE@optusnet.com.au> When developing my recent utility I have thought it could be useful if other users could access the output from some of its features, in other words inter-application communication. Stacks can do this if the utility is running in the IDE but not when run as a standalone. Now a Mac fully-featured app is encouraged to implement AppleScript access. It appears LC has a couple of features for helping to implement AS, (send to program and reply) but implementing AC in an LC standalone still looks to be even more complicated than in Xcode, where it so painful than most apps don’t bother: you have to set up a separate event handler and create the AS dictionary, and the AS language itself is abstruse to say the least — but how fantastically useful are those apps like Excel which do the implementation well! LC appears to have nothing for VB for Windows and I have no idea how to to do it myself on Windows. And of course there is nothing for Linux (go away and write your own sockets implementation at both ends!!) How cool would it be if LC standalones could easily talk to each other, at least when running on the same platform, which is where AppleScript and VB live! It certainly is possible, I have done at least one half of it running scripts in an LC app from a shell interface, connecting via sockets; but the learning curve for the coding was high. [Remote IAC raises knotty problems of implementation (secure login or Html POST?) and heightened security problems - though LC actually already does Remote Debugging which is related but not quite the same as normal IAC usage; for example with Remote Debugging you can run any script remotely unless it is password protected, quite the opposite of what you want IAC access to do. And it only works from the IDE source] I don’t know if this idea has been raised before, but I reckon all it should need for a very LC-style implementation would be: In the target app, expose a handler by simply marking it as public. And preferably provide a manifest describing the usage and input/output.That’s it. No dictionary resource files, no coding. In the source app I'm guessing one would only have Open application “foo” for IAC with credentials “its me" -> an access id and array of handlers and their manifests Dispatch “myhandler” to application “foo” with -> the result or error if not handled for timed out Close application pAccessId The engine would handle finding the LC app, connecting to a socket automatically opened on launch if the app has a public handler, getting user authorisation [Allow Always? On Launch? On Request?] and swapping certificates, and then data transfer. I leave this part as an exercise for the reader Neville From dvglasgow at gmail.com Fri Apr 15 13:27:22 2022 From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David Glasgow) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2022 18:27:22 +0100 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. Message-ID: <93653D24-AA11-4929-84EA-8774D756CA3F@gmail.com> Hi folks, MacOS 10.13.6 and Livecode 9.6.0 It may be that this is well known to everyone but me. But just in case... I have a card (A) with two fields in separate groups. Field 1 contains many many thousands of lines of text which are filtered for keywords and the results displayed in field 2 (which can also be many thousands of lines). The user can navigate to a separate card (B) to view summary statistics and a bar chart. I found that worked fine, but navigating back from B to A always took many seconds and looked like a hang. The delay seemed to be in some way proportional to the number of lines in field 1 and field 2. By a slip of the finger I discovered that this lag disappears completely if the groups containing field 1 and 2 are also placed on the summary stats card B. There is no real need for either to be there otherwise , and it seems they can even be invisible. I tried to see if there is a significant memory overhead to doing this, but there doesn’t seem to be. Is this a known thing? And either way, is there a better approach, or a downside I haven’t considered? Best Wishes, David Glasgow From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Apr 15 15:35:57 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2022 19:35:57 +0000 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: <93653D24-AA11-4929-84EA-8774D756CA3F@gmail.com> References: <93653D24-AA11-4929-84EA-8774D756CA3F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <9CDC6EB2-8686-4406-9D66-B703C53724A3@iotecdigital.com> Not sure why you are having this issue, but I will say that this is one of the primary reasons Datagrids were created. Table fields with large amounts of data were causing issues, and especially if the limits of lines or characters were exceeded. With a Datagrid however, only the data that is visible is actually being displayed. For example, you can have a datagrid with 10 visible rows and containing 10,000 lines of text (or array keys if you prefer) but only 10 lines of data will actually be in fields in the datagrid. There is wizardry in play when you scroll. It *appears* like there is data above and below the visible data, but trust me there is not. You can think of a datagrid as a moving window above the data. Anything not showing throught the window is not being processed by your vision, if you take my clumsy analogy. Once the data is in the datagrid, there are a number of ways to work with it. I like using the dgData of the datagrid which returns a numbered array, because I have written functions like filterArray and arrayToSQLite, cursorToArray, arrayToText, mergeArray etc. which allow me to work efficiently with these numbered arrays. Of particular interest to you might be the arrayToSQLite, bcause once you have data in an sqLite table, querying is a much more powerful (and efficient) way of getting just the data you want, such as the information displayed in your summary page. To use datagrids, you only need to know about a few properties, particularly the dgData, the dgText, the dgHilitedLine / Index, the dgDataOfLine / Index and handling the selectionChanged message. Bob S > On Apr 15, 2022, at 10:27 , David Glasgow via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi folks, > > > MacOS 10.13.6 and Livecode 9.6.0 > > It may be that this is well known to everyone but me. But just in case... > > I have a card (A) with two fields in separate groups. Field 1 contains many many thousands of lines of text which are filtered for keywords and the results displayed in field 2 (which can also be many thousands of lines). The user can navigate to a separate card (B) to view summary statistics and a bar chart. > > I found that worked fine, but navigating back from B to A always took many seconds and looked like a hang. The delay seemed to be in some way proportional to the number of lines in field 1 and field 2. > > By a slip of the finger I discovered that this lag disappears completely if the groups containing field 1 and 2 are also placed on the summary stats card B. There is no real need for either to be there otherwise , and it seems they can even be invisible. I tried to see if there is a significant memory overhead to doing this, but there doesn’t seem to be. > > Is this a known thing? And either way, is there a better approach, or a downside I haven’t considered? > > Best Wishes, > > David Glasgow > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dvglasgow at gmail.com Sat Apr 16 04:39:21 2022 From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David V Glasgow) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2022 09:39:21 +0100 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: <9CDC6EB2-8686-4406-9D66-B703C53724A3@iotecdigital.com> References: <93653D24-AA11-4929-84EA-8774D756CA3F@gmail.com> <9CDC6EB2-8686-4406-9D66-B703C53724A3@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <7E336532-CCB4-4DA8-B5BB-4677587424D9@gmail.com> Thanks for this, Bob. I have followed various discussions about datagrids, but didn’t appreciate the property your “window on the data” metaphor describes. I have also noticed that processing text in a variable is amazingly fast but then the results being put into a field takes a lot of time. I assume the linking of a text variable to a datagrid would also avoid that bottleneck? That is very interesting and I will explore the functions you describe. Thanks very much. Best Wishes, David Glasgow > On 15 Apr 2022, at 8:35 pm, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > Not sure why you are having this issue, but I will say that this is one of the primary reasons Datagrids were created. Table fields with large amounts of data were causing issues, and especially if the limits of lines or characters were exceeded. > > With a Datagrid however, only the data that is visible is actually being displayed. For example, you can have a datagrid with 10 visible rows and containing 10,000 lines of text (or array keys if you prefer) but only 10 lines of data will actually be in fields in the datagrid. There is wizardry in play when you scroll. It *appears* like there is data above and below the visible data, but trust me there is not. You can think of a datagrid as a moving window above the data. Anything not showing throught the window is not being processed by your vision, if you take my clumsy analogy. > > Once the data is in the datagrid, there are a number of ways to work with it. I like using the dgData of the datagrid which returns a numbered array, because I have written functions like filterArray and arrayToSQLite, cursorToArray, arrayToText, mergeArray etc. which allow me to work efficiently with these numbered arrays. > > Of particular interest to you might be the arrayToSQLite, bcause once you have data in an sqLite table, querying is a much more powerful (and efficient) way of getting just the data you want, such as the information displayed in your summary page. > > To use datagrids, you only need to know about a few properties, particularly the dgData, the dgText, the dgHilitedLine / Index, the dgDataOfLine / Index and handling the selectionChanged message. > > Bob S > > >> On Apr 15, 2022, at 10:27 , David Glasgow via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Hi folks, >> >> >> MacOS 10.13.6 and Livecode 9.6.0 >> >> It may be that this is well known to everyone but me. But just in case... >> >> I have a card (A) with two fields in separate groups. Field 1 contains many many thousands of lines of text which are filtered for keywords and the results displayed in field 2 (which can also be many thousands of lines). The user can navigate to a separate card (B) to view summary statistics and a bar chart. >> >> I found that worked fine, but navigating back from B to A always took many seconds and looked like a hang. The delay seemed to be in some way proportional to the number of lines in field 1 and field 2. >> >> By a slip of the finger I discovered that this lag disappears completely if the groups containing field 1 and 2 are also placed on the summary stats card B. There is no real need for either to be there otherwise , and it seems they can even be invisible. I tried to see if there is a significant memory overhead to doing this, but there doesn’t seem to be. >> >> Is this a known thing? And either way, is there a better approach, or a downside I haven’t considered? >> >> Best Wishes, >> >> David Glasgow >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat Apr 16 15:20:37 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2022 12:20:37 -0700 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: <93653D24-AA11-4929-84EA-8774D756CA3F@gmail.com> References: <93653D24-AA11-4929-84EA-8774D756CA3F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3b85009b-b04a-8545-debb-300584970309@fourthworld.com> David Glasgow wrote: > I have a card (A) with two fields in separate groups. Field 1 > contains many many thousands of lines of text which are filtered > for keywords and the results displayed in field 2 (which can also > be many thousands of lines). The user can navigate to a separate > card (B) to view summary statistics and a bar chart. > > I found that worked fine, but navigating back from B to A always > took many seconds and looked like a hang. The delay seemed to be > in some way proportional to the number of lines in field 1 and > field 2. How many is "many many thousands of lines"? 10k? 100k? More? Is the data displayed in list fields, or must the line wraps be calculated? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From jiml at netrin.com Sat Apr 16 15:46:16 2022 From: jiml at netrin.com (Jim Lambert) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2022 12:46:16 -0700 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > but then the results being put into a field takes a lot of time. Does locking the screen before putting text into the field help speed things up? From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Apr 16 17:40:59 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2022 16:40:59 -0500 Subject: Pixel 5 Message-ID: <359a6dca-ef11-76d1-7307-08737cad86eb@hyperactivesw.com> If anyone is interested in acquiring a Pixel 5 please contact me. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Sat Apr 16 19:30:05 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2022 23:30:05 +0000 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: <7E336532-CCB4-4DA8-B5BB-4677587424D9@gmail.com> References: <93653D24-AA11-4929-84EA-8774D756CA3F@gmail.com> <9CDC6EB2-8686-4406-9D66-B703C53724A3@iotecdigital.com> <7E336532-CCB4-4DA8-B5BB-4677587424D9@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0F185C31-A5DA-48E4-88DF-9CF0F1D33ED7@iotecdigital.com> Yes, I think you have it when you say that displaying text in a field is processor intensive. Fields are notoriously inefficient at storage. Do all your processing in memory and then display your results in whatever object you desire. Datagrids can provide an efficient intermediary display mechanism because the data is already in a form that is easy to work with, namely arrays. An array is merely a handle to a position in memory. A datagrid is a window on that object. As you scroll through the datagrid, you are only manipulating the data appearing in the window, and not the data itself. A field is different in that how the data appears in the interface must be calculated in advance. Think of it like the old “How do you eat an Elephant” allegory. The Datagrid eats the Elephant, “One Bite At a Time.” The field tries to eat the Elephant all at once. Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 16, 2022, at 01:40, David V Glasgow via use-livecode wrote: > > Thanks for this, Bob. I have followed various discussions about datagrids, but didn’t appreciate the property your “window on the data” metaphor describes. I have also noticed that processing text in a variable is amazingly fast but then the results being put into a field takes a lot of time. I assume the linking of a text variable to a datagrid would also avoid that bottleneck? > > That is very interesting and I will explore the functions you describe. Thanks very much. > > Best Wishes, > > David Glasgow > > >> On 15 Apr 2022, at 8:35 pm, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Not sure why you are having this issue, but I will say that this is one of the primary reasons Datagrids were created. Table fields with large amounts of data were causing issues, and especially if the limits of lines or characters were exceeded. >> >> With a Datagrid however, only the data that is visible is actually being displayed. For example, you can have a datagrid with 10 visible rows and containing 10,000 lines of text (or array keys if you prefer) but only 10 lines of data will actually be in fields in the datagrid. There is wizardry in play when you scroll. It *appears* like there is data above and below the visible data, but trust me there is not. You can think of a datagrid as a moving window above the data. Anything not showing throught the window is not being processed by your vision, if you take my clumsy analogy. >> >> Once the data is in the datagrid, there are a number of ways to work with it. I like using the dgData of the datagrid which returns a numbered array, because I have written functions like filterArray and arrayToSQLite, cursorToArray, arrayToText, mergeArray etc. which allow me to work efficiently with these numbered arrays. >> >> Of particular interest to you might be the arrayToSQLite, bcause once you have data in an sqLite table, querying is a much more powerful (and efficient) way of getting just the data you want, such as the information displayed in your summary page. >> >> To use datagrids, you only need to know about a few properties, particularly the dgData, the dgText, the dgHilitedLine / Index, the dgDataOfLine / Index and handling the selectionChanged message. >> >> Bob S >> >> >>>> On Apr 15, 2022, at 10:27 , David Glasgow via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> Hi folks, >>> >>> >>> MacOS 10.13.6 and Livecode 9.6.0 >>> >>> It may be that this is well known to everyone but me. But just in case... >>> >>> I have a card (A) with two fields in separate groups. Field 1 contains many many thousands of lines of text which are filtered for keywords and the results displayed in field 2 (which can also be many thousands of lines). The user can navigate to a separate card (B) to view summary statistics and a bar chart. >>> >>> I found that worked fine, but navigating back from B to A always took many seconds and looked like a hang. The delay seemed to be in some way proportional to the number of lines in field 1 and field 2. >>> >>> By a slip of the finger I discovered that this lag disappears completely if the groups containing field 1 and 2 are also placed on the summary stats card B. There is no real need for either to be there otherwise , and it seems they can even be invisible. I tried to see if there is a significant memory overhead to doing this, but there doesn’t seem to be. >>> >>> Is this a known thing? And either way, is there a better approach, or a downside I haven’t considered? >>> >>> Best Wishes, >>> >>> David Glasgow >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Apr 16 22:11:46 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2022 21:11:46 -0500 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: <0F185C31-A5DA-48E4-88DF-9CF0F1D33ED7@iotecdigital.com> References: <93653D24-AA11-4929-84EA-8774D756CA3F@gmail.com> <9CDC6EB2-8686-4406-9D66-B703C53724A3@iotecdigital.com> <7E336532-CCB4-4DA8-B5BB-4677587424D9@gmail.com> <0F185C31-A5DA-48E4-88DF-9CF0F1D33ED7@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <180354a56d0.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> So fields are snakes and datagrids are mice. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On April 16, 2022 6:32:19 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > The Datagrid eats the Elephant, One Bite At a Time. The field tries to > eat the Elephant all at once. From dochawk at gmail.com Sat Apr 16 23:05:40 2022 From: dochawk at gmail.com (doc hawk) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2022 20:05:40 -0700 Subject: Pixel 5 In-Reply-To: <359a6dca-ef11-76d1-7307-08737cad86eb@hyperactivesw.com> References: <359a6dca-ef11-76d1-7307-08737cad86eb@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <09364CD0-144A-4569-80C9-ABE0B1F55508@gmail.com> For some reason, I feel a sudden urge to sprinkle my doorstep with Holy Water . . . From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun Apr 17 01:50:30 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 00:50:30 -0500 Subject: Pixel 5 In-Reply-To: <09364CD0-144A-4569-80C9-ABE0B1F55508@gmail.com> References: <359a6dca-ef11-76d1-7307-08737cad86eb@hyperactivesw.com> <09364CD0-144A-4569-80C9-ABE0B1F55508@gmail.com> Message-ID: <18036129870.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> You don't know what you're missing. :) There's so little freedom over on the other side. I could never go back. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On April 16, 2022 10:07:48 PM doc hawk via use-livecode wrote: > For some reason, I feel a sudden urge to sprinkle my doorstep with Holy > Water . . . > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dvglasgow at gmail.com Sun Apr 17 04:00:24 2022 From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David V Glasgow) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 09:00:24 +0100 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Jim, The text in fields doesn’t move or change after the initial analysis. the slowdown is just navigating back to to the card containing the fields from from one which doesn’t contain the fields. Cheers David G > On 16 Apr 2022, at 8:46 pm, Jim Lambert via use-livecode wrote: > > >> but then the results being put into a field takes a lot of time. > > Does locking the screen before putting text into the field help speed things up? > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dvglasgow at gmail.com Sun Apr 17 04:06:46 2022 From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David V Glasgow) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 09:06:46 +0100 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: <3b85009b-b04a-8545-debb-300584970309@fourthworld.com> References: <93653D24-AA11-4929-84EA-8774D756CA3F@gmail.com> <3b85009b-b04a-8545-debb-300584970309@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <7250B533-189C-4B87-8E19-4461D61319B4@gmail.com> Hi Richard > On 16 Apr 2022, at 8:20 pm, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > How many is "many many thousands of lines"? 10k? 100k? More? Typically 30,000 to 800,000. One field wrapped (the imported ‘source’ text) and the other a, unwrapped list of found lines containing a keyword. > > Is the data displayed in list fields, or must the line wraps be calculated? The wrapped line field is locked and doesn’t change after import and is unaffected by the keyword-containing-lines process. I suppose a good question is are line wraps recalculated on navigation to the card. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web From dvglasgow at gmail.com Sun Apr 17 04:10:30 2022 From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David V Glasgow) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 09:10:30 +0100 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: <0F185C31-A5DA-48E4-88DF-9CF0F1D33ED7@iotecdigital.com> References: <93653D24-AA11-4929-84EA-8774D756CA3F@gmail.com> <9CDC6EB2-8686-4406-9D66-B703C53724A3@iotecdigital.com> <7E336532-CCB4-4DA8-B5BB-4677587424D9@gmail.com> <0F185C31-A5DA-48E4-88DF-9CF0F1D33ED7@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: > On 17 Apr 2022, at 12:30 am, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > Yes, I think you have it when you say that displaying text in a field is processor intensive. Fields are notoriously inefficient at storage. Do all your processing in memory and then display your results in whatever object you desire. Yup, I do that. processing takes time, but honestly it is amazingly fast. Dumping found lines into the results field takes a surprising amount of time, but even that doesn’t bother me too much. The issue is purely navigating back to the card containing the 600lb fields from any card that doesn’t. > Datagrids can provide an efficient intermediary display mechanism because the data is already in a form that is easy to work with, namely arrays. An array is merely a handle to a position in memory. A datagrid is a window on that object. As you scroll through the datagrid, you are only manipulating the data appearing in the window, and not the data itself. > > A field is different in that how the data appears in the interface must be calculated in advance. Think of it like the old “How do you eat an Elephant” allegory. The Datagrid eats the Elephant, “One Bite At a Time.” The field tries to eat the Elephant all at once. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Apr 16, 2022, at 01:40, David V Glasgow via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Thanks for this, Bob. I have followed various discussions about datagrids, but didn’t appreciate the property your “window on the data” metaphor describes. I have also noticed that processing text in a variable is amazingly fast but then the results being put into a field takes a lot of time. I assume the linking of a text variable to a datagrid would also avoid that bottleneck? >> >> That is very interesting and I will explore the functions you describe. Thanks very much. >> >> Best Wishes, >> >> David Glasgow >> >> >>> On 15 Apr 2022, at 8:35 pm, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> Not sure why you are having this issue, but I will say that this is one of the primary reasons Datagrids were created. Table fields with large amounts of data were causing issues, and especially if the limits of lines or characters were exceeded. >>> >>> With a Datagrid however, only the data that is visible is actually being displayed. For example, you can have a datagrid with 10 visible rows and containing 10,000 lines of text (or array keys if you prefer) but only 10 lines of data will actually be in fields in the datagrid. There is wizardry in play when you scroll. It *appears* like there is data above and below the visible data, but trust me there is not. You can think of a datagrid as a moving window above the data. Anything not showing throught the window is not being processed by your vision, if you take my clumsy analogy. >>> >>> Once the data is in the datagrid, there are a number of ways to work with it. I like using the dgData of the datagrid which returns a numbered array, because I have written functions like filterArray and arrayToSQLite, cursorToArray, arrayToText, mergeArray etc. which allow me to work efficiently with these numbered arrays. >>> >>> Of particular interest to you might be the arrayToSQLite, bcause once you have data in an sqLite table, querying is a much more powerful (and efficient) way of getting just the data you want, such as the information displayed in your summary page. >>> >>> To use datagrids, you only need to know about a few properties, particularly the dgData, the dgText, the dgHilitedLine / Index, the dgDataOfLine / Index and handling the selectionChanged message. >>> >>> Bob S >>> >>> >>>>> On Apr 15, 2022, at 10:27 , David Glasgow via use-livecode wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi folks, >>>> >>>> >>>> MacOS 10.13.6 and Livecode 9.6.0 >>>> >>>> It may be that this is well known to everyone but me. But just in case... >>>> >>>> I have a card (A) with two fields in separate groups. Field 1 contains many many thousands of lines of text which are filtered for keywords and the results displayed in field 2 (which can also be many thousands of lines). The user can navigate to a separate card (B) to view summary statistics and a bar chart. >>>> >>>> I found that worked fine, but navigating back from B to A always took many seconds and looked like a hang. The delay seemed to be in some way proportional to the number of lines in field 1 and field 2. >>>> >>>> By a slip of the finger I discovered that this lag disappears completely if the groups containing field 1 and 2 are also placed on the summary stats card B. There is no real need for either to be there otherwise , and it seems they can even be invisible. I tried to see if there is a significant memory overhead to doing this, but there doesn’t seem to be. >>>> >>>> Is this a known thing? And either way, is there a better approach, or a downside I haven’t considered? >>>> >>>> Best Wishes, >>>> >>>> David Glasgow >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sun Apr 17 09:48:39 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 06:48:39 -0700 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: <7250B533-189C-4B87-8E19-4461D61319B4@gmail.com> References: <7250B533-189C-4B87-8E19-4461D61319B4@gmail.com> Message-ID: <52bd473f-7bea-c605-fc71-1c724d247974@fourthworld.com> David V Glasgow wrote: > On 16 Apr 2022, at 8:20 pm, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> >> How many is "many many thousands of lines"? 10k? 100k? More? > > Typically 30,000 to 800,000. What is the user asked to do with 800,000 lines of data? That is, does this need to be displayed? >> Is the data displayed in list fields, or must the line wraps be >> calculated? > > The wrapped line field is locked and doesnt change after import > and is unaffected by the keyword-containing-lines process. I > suppose a good question is are line wraps recalculated on navigation > to the card. I'd guess that the card record is unpacked before rendering, which would include the controls, such as fields, and their contents. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems From craig at starfirelighting.com Mon Apr 18 10:04:44 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2022 10:04:44 -0400 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: <52bd473f-7bea-c605-fc71-1c724d247974@fourthworld.com> References: <7250B533-189C-4B87-8E19-4461D61319B4@gmail.com> <52bd473f-7bea-c605-fc71-1c724d247974@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <91D0C81F-5764-43D7-A1DD-5A8DAC8858EA@starfirelighting.com> I think on the forum a few years ago we played with a gadget that only displayed a small number of lines of a very large dataset. That would perhaps allow a table field to be used without having to learn all about dataGrids. I will try to find that discussion. Not that it is not a good idea to at least use the basics of a DG as a standard tool as a matter of course. Craig > On Apr 17, 2022, at 9:48 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > > David V Glasgow wrote: > > > On 16 Apr 2022, at 8:20 pm, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> > >> How many is "many many thousands of lines"? 10k? 100k? More? > > > > Typically 30,000 to 800,000. > > What is the user asked to do with 800,000 lines of data? > > That is, does this need to be displayed? > > > >> Is the data displayed in list fields, or must the line wraps be > >> calculated? > > > > The wrapped line field is locked and doesn’t change after import > > and is unaffected by the keyword-containing-lines process. I > > suppose a good question is are line wraps recalculated on navigation > > to the card. > > I'd guess that the card record is unpacked before rendering, which would include the controls, such as fields, and their contents. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Apr 18 12:42:40 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2022 09:42:40 -0700 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: <91D0C81F-5764-43D7-A1DD-5A8DAC8858EA@starfirelighting.com> References: <91D0C81F-5764-43D7-A1DD-5A8DAC8858EA@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: <9b0e6cd0-219b-8bcd-7089-62cdfd1025e4@fourthworld.com> Yes, there are many ways to explore HOW to display data. My question is WHY. Or more specifically, "What is the user asked to do with the data?" If we solve the display challenge without considering the user task, the user task remains unaddressed. But if we craft the UI to support the user task, I suspect the display question will resolve itself. Maybe. Or maybe not. We'll find out when David returns to this thread to tell us about the user task. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Craig Newman wrote: > I think on the forum a few years ago we played with a gadget that only displayed a small number of lines of a very large dataset. That would perhaps allow a table field to be used without having to learn all about dataGrids. I will try to find that discussion. > > Not that it is not a good idea to at least use the basics of a DG as a standard tool as a matter of course. > > Craig > >> On Apr 17, 2022, at 9:48 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >> >> >> David V Glasgow wrote: >> >> > On 16 Apr 2022, at 8:20 pm, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> >> >> >> How many is "many many thousands of lines"? 10k? 100k? More? >> > >> > Typically 30,000 to 800,000. >> >> What is the user asked to do with 800,000 lines of data? >> >> That is, does this need to be displayed? >> >> >> >> Is the data displayed in list fields, or must the line wraps be >> >> calculated? >> > >> > The wrapped line field is locked and doesnt change after import >> > and is unaffected by the keyword-containing-lines process. I >> > suppose a good question is are line wraps recalculated on navigation >> > to the card. >> >> I'd guess that the card record is unpacked before rendering, which would include the controls, such as fields, and their contents. >> >> -- >> Richard Gaskin >> Fourth World Systems From dfe4 at cornell.edu Mon Apr 18 12:44:13 2022 From: dfe4 at cornell.edu (David Epstein) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2022 12:44:13 -0400 Subject: Using LiveCode with Mac Photos App References: Message-ID: I want to allow selection of some images from my Mac Photos library and show them as “referenced” images in a LiveCode stack. Is there an efficient way to do this? What would be great is to open Photos, drag images from there to my LiveCode stack, and record in LiveCode the file location of the original image. But this seems not to work from within Photos, only with images that have been exported (e.g., I can drag exported images from my desktop to a LiveCode stack and get the dragData[“files”]). Is there any way from within Photos to gain access to the file locations for convenient use by LiveCode? David Epstein From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Apr 18 12:48:47 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2022 09:48:47 -0700 Subject: Using LiveCode with Mac Photos App In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: David Epstein wrote: > Is there any way from within Photos to gain access to the file > locations for convenient use by LiveCode? Apple's Photos app stores all the metadata in an SQLite file, no? If so, you may be able to poke around in the DB file directly. If Apple prevents that, you may be able to query it via AppleScript. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From dvglasgow at gmail.com Mon Apr 18 13:09:42 2022 From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David Glasgow) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2022 18:09:42 +0100 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: <9b0e6cd0-219b-8bcd-7089-62cdfd1025e4@fourthworld.com> References: <91D0C81F-5764-43D7-A1DD-5A8DAC8858EA@starfirelighting.com> <9b0e6cd0-219b-8bcd-7089-62cdfd1025e4@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <3ECC1BFA-7D13-4EBF-A2E4-1902146C599C@gmail.com> Sorry for belated response. Easter visitors. The user just initiates the automatic filtering for various keywords. Once completed, the original imported text (field 1) remains in its original form so that the user can click on a line in field 2 (i.e identified as containing a specific word or phrase) and then the text is selected and displayed in field 1 in its original context. That works really well. I’m happy with a medium term option to explore using datagrids, but I am still intrigued that placing the groups containing fields on navigated-from-cards eliminates the delay in transition. Best Wishes, David Glasgow Honorary Professor, Nottingham Trent University Sexual Offences, Crime and Misconduct Research Unit Consultant Forensic & Clinical Psychologist Carlton Glasgow Partnership Director, Child & Family Training, York LinkedIn > On 18 Apr 2022, at 5:42 pm, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > Yes, there are many ways to explore HOW to display data. My question is WHY. > > Or more specifically, "What is the user asked to do with the data?" > > If we solve the display challenge without considering the user task, the user task remains unaddressed. > > But if we craft the UI to support the user task, I suspect the display question will resolve itself. > > Maybe. Or maybe not. We'll find out when David returns to this thread to tell us about the user task. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > > > > Craig Newman wrote: >> I think on the forum a few years ago we played with a gadget that only displayed a small number of lines of a very large dataset. That would perhaps allow a table field to be used without having to learn all about dataGrids. I will try to find that discussion. >> Not that it is not a good idea to at least use the basics of a DG as a standard tool as a matter of course. >> Craig >>> On Apr 17, 2022, at 9:48 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >>> David V Glasgow wrote: >>> > On 16 Apr 2022, at 8:20 pm, Richard Gaskin wrote: >>> >> >>> >> How many is "many many thousands of lines"? 10k? 100k? More? >>> > >>> > Typically 30,000 to 800,000. >>> What is the user asked to do with 800,000 lines of data? >>> That is, does this need to be displayed? >>> >> Is the data displayed in list fields, or must the line wraps be >>> >> calculated? >>> > >>> > The wrapped line field is locked and doesn’t change after import >>> > and is unaffected by the keyword-containing-lines process. I >>> > suppose a good question is are line wraps recalculated on navigation >>> > to the card. >>> I'd guess that the card record is unpacked before rendering, which would include the controls, such as fields, and their contents. >>> -- >>> Richard Gaskin >>> Fourth World Systems > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon Apr 18 13:52:12 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2022 17:52:12 +0000 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: <3ECC1BFA-7D13-4EBF-A2E4-1902146C599C@gmail.com> References: <91D0C81F-5764-43D7-A1DD-5A8DAC8858EA@starfirelighting.com> <9b0e6cd0-219b-8bcd-7089-62cdfd1025e4@fourthworld.com> <3ECC1BFA-7D13-4EBF-A2E4-1902146C599C@gmail.com> Message-ID: <52507466-0098-4D32-AEFA-86B8E4467734@iotecdigital.com> Do you mean you made a group of the fields containing data, then used "Place Group" from the Objects menu on the summary card? If that is what you mean, then it stands to reason that all the work LC has to do in displaying what is now a Background Group on both cards which contains the very voluminous fields, is already done. Bob S > On Apr 18, 2022, at 10:09 , David Glasgow via use-livecode wrote: > > Sorry for belated response. Easter visitors. > > The user just initiates the automatic filtering for various keywords. Once completed, the original imported text (field 1) remains in its original form so that the user can click on a line in field 2 (i.e identified as containing a specific word or phrase) and then the text is selected and displayed in field 1 in its original context. That works really well. > > I’m happy with a medium term option to explore using datagrids, but I am still intrigued that placing the groups containing fields on navigated-from-cards eliminates the delay in transition. > > Best Wishes, > > David Glasgow > Honorary Professor, Nottingham Trent University > Sexual Offences, Crime and Misconduct Research Unit > Consultant Forensic & Clinical Psychologist > Carlton Glasgow Partnership > Director, Child & Family Training, York From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Apr 18 14:02:07 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2022 11:02:07 -0700 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: <3ECC1BFA-7D13-4EBF-A2E4-1902146C599C@gmail.com> References: <3ECC1BFA-7D13-4EBF-A2E4-1902146C599C@gmail.com> Message-ID: <04225b03-dec3-262b-0738-e655e04d0c20@fourthworld.com> David Glasgow wrote: > The user just initiates the automatic filtering for various keywords. What does that mean? What actions do they perform requiring them to review the full list? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From dvglasgow at gmail.com Tue Apr 19 06:38:08 2022 From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David V Glasgow) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2022 11:38:08 +0100 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: <04225b03-dec3-262b-0738-e655e04d0c20@fourthworld.com> References: <3ECC1BFA-7D13-4EBF-A2E4-1902146C599C@gmail.com> <04225b03-dec3-262b-0738-e655e04d0c20@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <1724CA02-7556-46B8-8A74-AFC474E72620@gmail.com> Maybe context would help. I receive digital evidence from police Hi Tech Crime Units, consisting of lists/tables of messages, search histories, web histories, files downloaded, etc etc. These relate to online activities of alleged internet offenders. Some consist of data relating to a few months activity, others may be 10 years or more - so vary hugely in the sheer quantity of data. This is what is imported into the first field. I have established a number of sets of keywords/tags which can be cycled through using ‘filter with’ to find list items which might indicate particular forms of malign motivation of the alleged offender. So, a user clicks button “Filter with X keywords” looking for, for example, coercive/aggressive tags. All ‘filtered with' lines containing selected tags appear in the second scrolling field. Sometimes nothing much will be found, but sometimes this field may become 50 to 74% the size of the field containing the original imported data. This (second) field can be scrolled and eyeballed until something of forensic significance is spotted. Clicking on that line scrolls the first field to display and highlight the line in its original context (i.e showing preceding and following lines). With respect to Bob’s observation about the work to display a background group being 'already done’ if the navigated-to card contains the background group containing the field, that is pretty much what I assumed is happening. The intriguing question is why the work necessarily is ‘undone’ when navigating to any card not containing the group. Does it consume such significant resources the default is to clear it? It would be nice to be able choose to preserve or cache the work if that has such a significant impact on performance as in this case. Best Wishes, David Glasgow > On 18 Apr 2022, at 7:02 pm, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > David Glasgow wrote: > > > The user just initiates the automatic filtering for various keywords. > > What does that mean? What actions do they perform requiring them to review the full list? > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From craig at starfirelighting.com Tue Apr 19 10:47:11 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2022 10:47:11 -0400 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: <1724CA02-7556-46B8-8A74-AFC474E72620@gmail.com> References: <3ECC1BFA-7D13-4EBF-A2E4-1902146C599C@gmail.com> <04225b03-dec3-262b-0738-e655e04d0c20@fourthworld.com> <1724CA02-7556-46B8-8A74-AFC474E72620@gmail.com> Message-ID: <9A208CEA-D52E-4E4E-90CC-0BA1A3699ADF@starfirelighting.com> Dave. I played around a bit with a field on a card that has 100,000 lines of text and an overall length of 5 Meg. There is not question that such a well-packed field is sluggish in several ways. Just try to make it wider using the pointer tool. But a simple mouseUp handler in the field takes the value of the clickLine and loads it into a field on a different card. The process is instantaneous. What does your setup have that mine does not, so that you are seeing intolerable delays? Craig > On Apr 19, 2022, at 6:38 AM, David V Glasgow via use-livecode wrote: > > Maybe context would help. I receive digital evidence from police Hi Tech Crime Units, consisting of lists/tables of messages, search histories, web histories, files downloaded, etc etc. These relate to online activities of alleged internet offenders. Some consist of data relating to a few months activity, others may be 10 years or more - so vary hugely in the sheer quantity of data. This is what is imported into the first field. > > I have established a number of sets of keywords/tags which can be cycled through using ‘filter with’ to find list items which might indicate particular forms of malign motivation of the alleged offender. So, a user clicks button “Filter with X keywords” looking for, for example, coercive/aggressive tags. > > All ‘filtered with' lines containing selected tags appear in the second scrolling field. Sometimes nothing much will be found, but sometimes this field may become 50 to 74% the size of the field containing the original imported data. This (second) field can be scrolled and eyeballed until something of forensic significance is spotted. Clicking on that line scrolls the first field to display and highlight the line in its original context (i.e showing preceding and following lines). > > With respect to Bob’s observation about the work to display a background group being 'already done’ if the navigated-to card contains the background group containing the field, that is pretty much what I assumed is happening. The intriguing question is why the work necessarily is ‘undone’ when navigating to any card not containing the group. Does it consume such significant resources the default is to clear it? It would be nice to be able choose to preserve or cache the work if that has such a significant impact on performance as in this case. > > Best Wishes, > > David Glasgow > > >> On 18 Apr 2022, at 7:02 pm, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >> >> David Glasgow wrote: >> >>> The user just initiates the automatic filtering for various keywords. >> >> What does that mean? What actions do they perform requiring them to review the full list? >> >> -- >> Richard Gaskin >> Fourth World Systems >> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web >> ____________________________________________________________________ >> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From craig at starfirelighting.com Tue Apr 19 10:50:22 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2022 10:50:22 -0400 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: <9A208CEA-D52E-4E4E-90CC-0BA1A3699ADF@starfirelighting.com> References: <3ECC1BFA-7D13-4EBF-A2E4-1902146C599C@gmail.com> <04225b03-dec3-262b-0738-e655e04d0c20@fourthworld.com> <1724CA02-7556-46B8-8A74-AFC474E72620@gmail.com> <9A208CEA-D52E-4E4E-90CC-0BA1A3699ADF@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: I do see that navigating BACK to the card with the packed field takes almost two seconds. Craig > On Apr 19, 2022, at 10:47 AM, Craig Newman wrote: > > Dave. > > I played around a bit with a field on a card that has 100,000 lines of text and an overall length of 5 Meg. There is not question that such a well-packed field is sluggish in several ways. Just try to make it wider using the pointer tool. > > But a simple mouseUp handler in the field takes the value of the clickLine and loads it into a field on a different card. The process is instantaneous. What does your setup have that mine does not, so that you are seeing intolerable delays? > > Craig > >> On Apr 19, 2022, at 6:38 AM, David V Glasgow via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Maybe context would help. I receive digital evidence from police Hi Tech Crime Units, consisting of lists/tables of messages, search histories, web histories, files downloaded, etc etc. These relate to online activities of alleged internet offenders. Some consist of data relating to a few months activity, others may be 10 years or more - so vary hugely in the sheer quantity of data. This is what is imported into the first field. >> >> I have established a number of sets of keywords/tags which can be cycled through using ‘filter with’ to find list items which might indicate particular forms of malign motivation of the alleged offender. So, a user clicks button “Filter with X keywords” looking for, for example, coercive/aggressive tags. >> >> All ‘filtered with' lines containing selected tags appear in the second scrolling field. Sometimes nothing much will be found, but sometimes this field may become 50 to 74% the size of the field containing the original imported data. This (second) field can be scrolled and eyeballed until something of forensic significance is spotted. Clicking on that line scrolls the first field to display and highlight the line in its original context (i.e showing preceding and following lines). >> >> With respect to Bob’s observation about the work to display a background group being 'already done’ if the navigated-to card contains the background group containing the field, that is pretty much what I assumed is happening. The intriguing question is why the work necessarily is ‘undone’ when navigating to any card not containing the group. Does it consume such significant resources the default is to clear it? It would be nice to be able choose to preserve or cache the work if that has such a significant impact on performance as in this case. >> >> Best Wishes, >> >> David Glasgow >> >> >>> On 18 Apr 2022, at 7:02 pm, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> David Glasgow wrote: >>> >>>> The user just initiates the automatic filtering for various keywords. >>> >>> What does that mean? What actions do they perform requiring them to review the full list? >>> >>> -- >>> Richard Gaskin >>> Fourth World Systems >>> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web >>> ____________________________________________________________________ >>> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dvglasgow at gmail.com Tue Apr 19 11:53:21 2022 From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David V Glasgow) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2022 16:53:21 +0100 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: References: <3ECC1BFA-7D13-4EBF-A2E4-1902146C599C@gmail.com> <04225b03-dec3-262b-0738-e655e04d0c20@fourthworld.com> <1724CA02-7556-46B8-8A74-AFC474E72620@gmail.com> <9A208CEA-D52E-4E4E-90CC-0BA1A3699ADF@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: That is exactly it, Craig! Text processing and field responsivity on the card containing the fields are as fast as I could hope. It is simply navigating back to the card containing the fields that can take several seconds, depending on how much text is in the fields. The workaround is to have invisible groups containing the field(s) placed on the card you are navigating from. I assume that the text has to be shared, but I haven’t actually tested that. Best Wishes, David Glasgow > On 19 Apr 2022, at 3:50 pm, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: > > I do see that navigating BACK to the card with the packed field takes almost two seconds. > > Craig From craig at starfirelighting.com Tue Apr 19 13:13:18 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2022 13:13:18 -0400 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: References: <3ECC1BFA-7D13-4EBF-A2E4-1902146C599C@gmail.com> <04225b03-dec3-262b-0738-e655e04d0c20@fourthworld.com> <1724CA02-7556-46B8-8A74-AFC474E72620@gmail.com> <9A208CEA-D52E-4E4E-90CC-0BA1A3699ADF@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: <18DF99F8-6BC8-46A7-9E75-00080CC226CB@starfirelighting.com> David. OK. So why not rethink the structure overall. I hate thinking at all, so rethinking is abhorrent, but oftentimes saves much grief. I wish I was on the forum, but here goes. I made a button that: - gets the value of the clickLine as before - hides the big field - loads that information into another field on the same card. Another button shows the big field again All instantaneous. Craig > On Apr 19, 2022, at 11:53 AM, David V Glasgow via use-livecode wrote: > > That is exactly it, Craig! Text processing and field responsivity on the card containing the fields are as fast as I could hope. > > It is simply navigating back to the card containing the fields that can take several seconds, depending on how much text is in the fields. The workaround is to have invisible groups containing the field(s) placed on the card you are navigating from. I assume that the text has to be shared, but I haven’t actually tested that. > > Best Wishes, > > David Glasgow > > >> On 19 Apr 2022, at 3:50 pm, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: >> >> I do see that navigating BACK to the card with the packed field takes almost two seconds. >> >> Craig > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From craig at starfirelighting.com Tue Apr 19 13:48:41 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2022 13:48:41 -0400 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: <18DF99F8-6BC8-46A7-9E75-00080CC226CB@starfirelighting.com> References: <3ECC1BFA-7D13-4EBF-A2E4-1902146C599C@gmail.com> <04225b03-dec3-262b-0738-e655e04d0c20@fourthworld.com> <1724CA02-7556-46B8-8A74-AFC474E72620@gmail.com> <9A208CEA-D52E-4E4E-90CC-0BA1A3699ADF@starfirelighting.com> <18DF99F8-6BC8-46A7-9E75-00080CC226CB@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: David, Likely does not matter, but I misspoke. A mouseUp handler in the large locked field: - gets the value of the clickLine - hides the large field (itself) - shows a secondary field - loads information in that field. Clicking on the secondary field does the reverse in terms of showing/hiding.. All this is basic stuff, but the time delay goes away. So navigating to other cards can be simulated by extracting and loading data on controls on the same card. The old HC “Rolodex" paradigm was attractive and comforting, and still has its uses. But HC could not support fields of greater than 32K, so this delay issue never came up. Also, HC could easily support many more cards than LC can. Craig > On Apr 19, 2022, at 1:13 PM, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: > > David. > > OK. So why not rethink the structure overall. I hate thinking at all, so rethinking is abhorrent, but oftentimes saves much grief. > > I wish I was on the forum, but here goes. > > I made a button that: > > - gets the value of the clickLine as before > - hides the big field > - loads that information into another field on the same card. > > Another button shows the big field again > > All instantaneous. > > Craig > >> On Apr 19, 2022, at 11:53 AM, David V Glasgow via use-livecode wrote: >> >> That is exactly it, Craig! Text processing and field responsivity on the card containing the fields are as fast as I could hope. >> >> It is simply navigating back to the card containing the fields that can take several seconds, depending on how much text is in the fields. The workaround is to have invisible groups containing the field(s) placed on the card you are navigating from. I assume that the text has to be shared, but I haven’t actually tested that. >> >> Best Wishes, >> >> David Glasgow >> >> >>> On 19 Apr 2022, at 3:50 pm, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> I do see that navigating BACK to the card with the packed field takes almost two seconds. >>> >>> Craig >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed Apr 20 08:56:00 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2022 08:56:00 -0400 Subject: Pixel 5 In-Reply-To: <18036129870.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <359a6dca-ef11-76d1-7307-08737cad86eb@hyperactivesw.com> <09364CD0-144A-4569-80C9-ABE0B1F55508@gmail.com> <18036129870.276f.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: I am on my second droid phone, and I agree, I probably could never go back - but, for corporate app deployment and deployment, ios is happier place. On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 1:51 AM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > You don't know what you're missing. :) There's so little freedom over on > the other side. I could never go back. > > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > On April 16, 2022 10:07:48 PM doc hawk via use-livecode > wrote: > > > For some reason, I feel a sudden urge to sprinkle my doorstep with Holy > > Water . . . > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Apr 20 15:43:44 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2022 12:43:44 -0700 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick. In-Reply-To: <1724CA02-7556-46B8-8A74-AFC474E72620@gmail.com> References: <1724CA02-7556-46B8-8A74-AFC474E72620@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8aeca18a-0154-f00d-98ad-0b96005f70e6@fourthworld.com> Thank you, David. That does indeed help a lot. Very interesting task, actually. Very glad to have read that. In most workflows there's little need to display such long lists for users to wade through. But in your case it's clear that the nature of the work requires laborious review of details, so even a super-long list is not a design problem at all, but arguably essential. That said, if I understand this correctly, only the subset of records that first match the search criteria will need to be reviewed - is that correct? If it is, you can omit the display of the first list, enjoying not only ending the need to have that field's rendering eat up time, but also the speed boost from handling that data in a variable. But the results list does need to be displayed. And since that list may be long, I concur with those who have recommended the DataGrid as a solution. Sure, it takes a little setup, but the payoff is that it will only render what can be viewed on screen at any given time, which should give you the smooth card-to-card speed you're looking for. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems David V Glasgow wrote: > Maybe context would help. I receive digital evidence from police Hi Tech Crime Units, consisting of lists/tables of messages, search histories, web histories, files downloaded, etc etc. These relate to online activities of alleged internet offenders. Some consist of data relating to a few months activity, others may be 10 years or more - so vary hugely in the sheer quantity of data. This is what is imported into the first field. > > I have established a number of sets of keywords/tags which can be cycled through using filter with to find list items which might indicate particular forms of malign motivation of the alleged offender. So, a user clicks button Filter with X keywords looking for, for example, coercive/aggressive tags. > > All filtered with' lines containing selected tags appear in the second scrolling field. Sometimes nothing much will be found, but sometimes this field may become 50 to 74% the size of the field containing the original imported data. This (second) field can be scrolled and eyeballed until something of forensic significance is spotted. Clicking on that line scrolls the first field to display and highlight the line in its original context (i.e showing preceding and following lines). > > With respect to Bobs observation about the work to display a background group being 'already done if the navigated-to card contains the background group containing the field, that is pretty much what I assumed is happening. The intriguing question is why the work necessarily is undone when navigating to any card not containing the group. Does it consume such significant resources the default is to clear it? It would be nice to be able choose to preserve or cache the work if that has such a significant impact on performance as in this case. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Apr 20 17:58:47 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2022 14:58:47 -0700 Subject: Pixel 5 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8bc50292-b596-aeaa-d56f-46c400f8f18c@fourthworld.com> Mike Kerner wrote: > I am on my second droid phone, and I agree, I probably could never > go back - but, for corporate app deployment and deployment, ios is > happier place. What have I been missing? Last time I did native mobile Apple was still making devs jump through hoops just to install apps that aren't even going into their app store. On Android we just turn off the sideloading protection, install, and turn it back on again - no handholding/gatekeeping from the OS provider needed, no contact with them needed at all. All this time I thought Apple's message for orgs making apps for internal use was to use Android. I sometimes do medical apps, where iOS is strongly represented. I'd love it if Apple has a way to beat Android for ease of deployment. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems From irog at mac.com Wed Apr 20 18:46:14 2022 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2022 15:46:14 -0700 Subject: Splash Method of Saving Data Message-ID: <4FB585A7-704A-4D64-8FDA-4112E2BF420F@mac.com> I am so sorry for bring this up again, but I just can’t find relevant information. In the good ol days one could build Mac, Windows and Unix standalones apps using the splash screen method to open substacks thereby saving data in the substacks. This Doesn’t seem to work anymore! I see there is a lesson for saving Custom Properties using this method but I need to save other data like new graphics in the substack. Help please… Thanks, Roger From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Apr 20 19:32:52 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2022 18:32:52 -0500 Subject: Pixel 5 In-Reply-To: <8bc50292-b596-aeaa-d56f-46c400f8f18c@fourthworld.com> References: <8bc50292-b596-aeaa-d56f-46c400f8f18c@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On 4/20/22 4:58 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > All this time I thought Apple's message for orgs making apps for internal use was to use > Android. I sometimes do medical apps, where iOS is strongly represented. I'd love it if Apple > has a way to beat Android for ease of deployment. The best you can do is to use Apple's corporate distribution. It allows up to a certain number of employees who can install your app in-house. The license is expensive. For people like us, no dice. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From irog at mac.com Wed Apr 20 19:49:28 2022 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2022 16:49:28 -0700 Subject: Splash Method of Saving Data In-Reply-To: <4FB585A7-704A-4D64-8FDA-4112E2BF420F@mac.com> References: <4FB585A7-704A-4D64-8FDA-4112E2BF420F@mac.com> Message-ID: <532707BC-6AF7-46C4-8AD7-700E90E4D284@mac.com> Never mind, I think I found my mistake. Roger > On Apr 20, 2022, at 3:46 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: > > I am so sorry for bring this up again, but I just can’t find relevant information. In the good ol days one could build Mac, Windows and Unix standalones apps using the splash screen method to open substacks thereby saving data in the substacks. This Doesn’t seem to work anymore! I see there is a lesson for saving Custom Properties using this method but I need to save other data like new graphics in the substack. Help please… > > Thanks, > > Roger > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jiml at netrin.com Wed Apr 20 21:23:24 2022 From: jiml at netrin.com (Jim Lambert) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2022 18:23:24 -0700 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > DavidG wrote: > That is exactly it, Craig! Text processing and field responsivity on the card containing the fields are as fast as I could hope. > > It is simply navigating back to the card containing the fields that can take several seconds, depending on how much text is in the fields. The workaround is to have invisible groups containing the field(s) placed on the card you are navigating from. Here's another possibility. Instead of using multiple cards, do the whole interface on a single card. Have different groups on that single card, each of which does the job of one of the eliminated cards. In that way you NEVER NAVIGATE away from your data fields. They are simple present in a now hidden group. For example, let's say your stack currently has 5 cards. Card #1 is the card with the two data fields you describe. Put those fields and any other interface elements currently on that card into Group #1 of the card. Put the contents of cards 2 thru 5 into groups #2 thru 5 on card #1. Hide and show groups where you previously navigated between cards. Jim Lambert From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au Wed Apr 20 23:29:45 2022 From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2022 03:29:45 +0000 Subject: Pixel 5 In-Reply-To: <8bc50292-b596-aeaa-d56f-46c400f8f18c@fourthworld.com> References: <8bc50292-b596-aeaa-d56f-46c400f8f18c@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: I haven’t done any iOS apps for a little while but when I was - using an enterprise developer license - getting iOS apps onto our users’ (students and staff) phones was easy as. The hardest thing was finding a server to host the files (ipa, plist etc.) on. Terry.. From: use-livecode on behalf of Richard Gaskin via use-livecode Date: Thursday, 21 April 2022 at 8:00 am To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Cc: Richard Gaskin Subject: Re: Pixel 5 Mike Kerner wrote: > I am on my second droid phone, and I agree, I probably could never > go back - but, for corporate app deployment and deployment, ios is > happier place. What have I been missing? Last time I did native mobile Apple was still making devs jump through hoops just to install apps that aren't even going into their app store. On Android we just turn off the sideloading protection, install, and turn it back on again - no handholding/gatekeeping from the OS provider needed, no contact with them needed at all. All this time I thought Apple's message for orgs making apps for internal use was to use Android. I sometimes do medical apps, where iOS is strongly represented. I'd love it if Apple has a way to beat Android for ease of deployment. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dvglasgow at gmail.com Thu Apr 21 07:50:17 2022 From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David V Glasgow) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2022 12:50:17 +0100 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <04EA7145-B760-4E78-9BDC-FAB3BEE11ACC@gmail.com> Thanks to all who responded on this. I will definitely take a look at Datagrids as a possible solution. Both Phil and Jim suggested avoiding navigation completely …. which I will also investigate. Cheers David G > On 21 Apr 2022, at 2:23 am, Jim Lambert via use-livecode wrote: > >> DavidG wrote: >> That is exactly it, Craig! Text processing and field responsivity on the card containing the fields are as fast as I could hope. >> >> It is simply navigating back to the card containing the fields that can take several seconds, depending on how much text is in the fields. The workaround is to have invisible groups containing the field(s) placed on the card you are navigating from. > > Here's another possibility. > Instead of using multiple cards, do the whole interface on a single card. > Have different groups on that single card, each of which does the job of one of the eliminated cards. > In that way you NEVER NAVIGATE away from your data fields. They are simple present in a now hidden group. > > For example, let's say your stack currently has 5 cards. > Card #1 is the card with the two data fields you describe. > Put those fields and any other interface elements currently on that card into Group #1 of the card. > Put the contents of cards 2 thru 5 into groups #2 thru 5 on card #1. > Hide and show groups where you previously navigated between cards. > > Jim Lambert > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Apr 21 11:22:11 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2022 15:22:11 +0000 Subject: Encountering slow navigation to a card containing very large fields? Do this one simple trick In-Reply-To: <04EA7145-B760-4E78-9BDC-FAB3BEE11ACC@gmail.com> References: <04EA7145-B760-4E78-9BDC-FAB3BEE11ACC@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0491A05F-84A2-435A-A925-D34A0FD3771D@iotecdigital.com> Let me know off list if you want to have a look at the handlers I have written for getting data from a datagrid array into a memory database and back again so your queries can be more efficient. Bob S > On Apr 21, 2022, at 04:50 , David V Glasgow via use-livecode wrote: > > > Thanks to all who responded on this. I will definitely take a look at Datagrids as a possible solution. Both Phil and Jim suggested avoiding navigation completely …. which I will also investigate. > > Cheers > > David G > >> On 21 Apr 2022, at 2:23 am, Jim Lambert via use-livecode wrote: >> >>> DavidG wrote: >>> That is exactly it, Craig! Text processing and field responsivity on the card containing the fields are as fast as I could hope. >>> >>> It is simply navigating back to the card containing the fields that can take several seconds, depending on how much text is in the fields. The workaround is to have invisible groups containing the field(s) placed on the card you are navigating from. >> >> Here's another possibility. >> Instead of using multiple cards, do the whole interface on a single card. >> Have different groups on that single card, each of which does the job of one of the eliminated cards. >> In that way you NEVER NAVIGATE away from your data fields. They are simple present in a now hidden group. >> >> For example, let's say your stack currently has 5 cards. >> Card #1 is the card with the two data fields you describe. >> Put those fields and any other interface elements currently on that card into Group #1 of the card. >> Put the contents of cards 2 thru 5 into groups #2 thru 5 on card #1. >> Hide and show groups where you previously navigated between cards. >> >> Jim Lambert >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Thu Apr 21 11:55:31 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2022 11:55:31 -0400 Subject: optionKeyDown message broken Message-ID: <76a263e1-96b4-cbdf-3f64-bf87269182ac@researchware.com> I am finding problems with the optionKeyDown handler on both Windows (where it's the ALT key) and macOS (OPTION key). This is in Livecode 9.6.7 STABLE under macOS Mojave and Windows 10 In a new stack, place the following in the card script: on optionKeyDown pKeyName   if platform() = "MacOS" then     put numToChar(charToNum(pKeyName)-128) into tKey1 -- original sample from Dictionary     put numToCodePoint(codepointToNum(pKeyName)-128) into tKey2 -- trying using non-deprecated functions     answer pKeyName,tKey1,tKey2   else -- windows     answer pKeyName   end if end optionKeyDown On macOS, the LC 9.6.7 Dictionary shows the need to strip the "high" bit off the character to get the letter of the key pressed, for example, OPTION-F produces The above script on macOS produces for OPTION-F the following , D, Where as what you want for either tKey1 or tKey2 to be "F" the key pressed with OPTION-F I think this is a case where the Dictionary entry for optionKeyDown (for macOS) needs to be updated with a formula that works since LC was updated to Unicode with version 7 "High" ASCII macOS characters are now UNicode and not the same character codes. But Wait. Windows is even worse This code on Windows does not produce a letter of any sort. It produces  As soon as you press the ALT key, before you can even press ALT-F, this script displays 65513 in the answer dialog. This, I believe is the RAW key code for the ALT key! In other words, the optionKeyDown message is not sending the key pressed as a letter/character as the dictionary says and the parameter passed to the optionKeyDown message is the code for the ALT key itself (which makes no sense). Could enough folks on this list conform both the macOS and Windows errors, so I can log a bug with LiveCode? I am not looking for work-around (I can do that if I have to), just for confirmation that these are bugs. The macOS can be resolved by a better method for mapping macOS "high-ASCII" characters, now mapped to Unicode in LC, back to the ASCII key characters pressed. The Windows may not have a work-around as, according to the dictionary, keyDown/keyUp messages are not passed in Control or Alt keys are down, the commandKeyDown, optionKetDown messages are sent instead, so you can using a keyDown handler and check for the altKey() = "down" condition. Perhaps rawKeyDown... From craig at starfirelighting.com Thu Apr 21 13:04:46 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2022 13:04:46 -0400 Subject: optionKeyDown message broken In-Reply-To: <76a263e1-96b4-cbdf-3f64-bf87269182ac@researchware.com> References: <76a263e1-96b4-cbdf-3f64-bf87269182ac@researchware.com> Message-ID: Have not played with your handler, but why not just: on rawKeyDown tKey if the optionkey is down then answer numToChar(tkey) end rawKeyDown Craig > On Apr 21, 2022, at 11:55 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > > on optionKeyDown pKeyName > if platform() = "MacOS" then > put numToChar(charToNum(pKeyName)-128) into tKey1 -- original sample from Dictionary > put numToCodePoint(codepointToNum(pKeyName)-128) into tKey2 -- trying using non-deprecated functions > answer pKeyName,tKey1,tKey2 > else -- windows > answer pKeyName > end if > end optionKeyDown From paul at researchware.com Thu Apr 21 14:16:53 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2022 14:16:53 -0400 Subject: optionKeyDown message broken In-Reply-To: References: <76a263e1-96b4-cbdf-3f64-bf87269182ac@researchware.com> Message-ID: <0a4055d6-145f-2317-1943-fd7c85ad080f@researchware.com> Yes, there are work-arounds. My post was about confirming the bug so I can report it to Livecode. In this case, we have a shipping application in which the optionKeyDown handler USED to work that now a customer has (correctly) reported it broken. If everyone just codes work-arounds and bugs are never reported, then the bugs will never get fixed. Sorry, a long frustrating day. On 4/21/2022 1:04 PM, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: > Have not played with your handler, but why not just: > > on rawKeyDown tKey > > if the optionkey is down then answer numToChar(tkey) > > end rawKeyDown > > > Craig > >> On Apr 21, 2022, at 11:55 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: >> >> on optionKeyDown pKeyName >> if platform() = "MacOS" then >> put numToChar(charToNum(pKeyName)-128) into tKey1 -- original sample from Dictionary >> put numToCodePoint(codepointToNum(pKeyName)-128) into tKey2 -- trying using non-deprecated functions >> answer pKeyName,tKey1,tKey2 >> else -- windows >> answer pKeyName >> end if >> end optionKeyDown > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Apr 21 15:27:40 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2022 14:27:40 -0500 Subject: optionKeyDown message broken In-Reply-To: <76a263e1-96b4-cbdf-3f64-bf87269182ac@researchware.com> References: <76a263e1-96b4-cbdf-3f64-bf87269182ac@researchware.com> Message-ID: <578444fa-b460-ef07-4e28-5130d692dbc8@hyperactivesw.com> On 4/21/22 10:55 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > In a new stack, place the following in the card script: > > on optionKeyDown pKeyName >   if platform() = "MacOS" then >     put numToChar(charToNum(pKeyName)-128) into tKey1 -- original sample from Dictionary >     put numToCodePoint(codepointToNum(pKeyName)-128) into tKey2 -- trying using non-deprecated > functions >     answer pKeyName,tKey1,tKey2 >   else -- windows >     answer pKeyName >   end if > end optionKeyDown The equivalent new functions for numToChar and charToNum is numToNativeChar and nativeCharToNum. Those return the same values as the originals. However, I'm still getting the wrong result. I can subtract 94 to get lower-case "f" but that isn't consistent; the amount to subtract varies depending on the value of pKeyName. So there's some trick I'm missing. Tested on Mac. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From paul at researchware.com Thu Apr 21 16:19:50 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2022 16:19:50 -0400 Subject: optionKeyDown message broken In-Reply-To: <578444fa-b460-ef07-4e28-5130d692dbc8@hyperactivesw.com> References: <76a263e1-96b4-cbdf-3f64-bf87269182ac@researchware.com> <578444fa-b460-ef07-4e28-5130d692dbc8@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <1c71a1a7-b4af-53af-d28f-df2e60fc17e3@researchware.com> On 4/21/2022 3:27 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > On 4/21/22 10:55 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: >> In a new stack, place the following in the card script: >> >> on optionKeyDown pKeyName >>    if platform() = "MacOS" then >>      put numToChar(charToNum(pKeyName)-128) into tKey1 -- original >> sample from Dictionary >>      put numToCodePoint(codepointToNum(pKeyName)-128) into tKey2 -- >> trying using non-deprecated functions >>      answer pKeyName,tKey1,tKey2 >>    else -- windows >>      answer pKeyName >>    end if >> end optionKeyDown > > The equivalent new functions for numToChar and charToNum is > numToNativeChar and nativeCharToNum. Those return the same values as > the originals. However, I'm still getting the wrong result. I can > subtract 94 to get lower-case "f" but that isn't consistent; the > amount to subtract varies depending on the value of pKeyName. So > there's some trick I'm missing. > > Tested on Mac. > Thank you for verifying macOS! I did not know about numToNativeChar and nativeCharToNum so thanks for that also. However, after looking at a decimal table of MacRoman, the suggested formula to remove the "high-bit" in the Dictionary will NEVER work no matter what functions are used. The high-ASCII characters of MAcROman (bytes 128 to 255) do not correspond to any alphabetical range. In other words, the numerical equivalent of OPTION-A through OPTION-Z is not in sequential order. You would either have to code it as: on optionDownKey pKey   if platform() = "MacOS" then     if pKey = "" then put "f" in tKey -- MacRoman byte 196 (OPTION-F is pressed)     if pKey = "" then put "x" in tKey -- MacRoman byte 197 (is NOT OPTION-G (expected if in alphabetical order and you could just do math to get the ASCII key character), but is OPTION-X) In my opinion, this makes the optionKeyDown handler on macOS next to useless and it is far more intuitive from a develop and code documentation perspective if the letter of the key pressed in conjunction with the OPTOPN key was returned. And, of course, you can work around this with a rawKeyDown or rawKeyUp handler, but I would consider the state of optionKeyDown on macOS defective. From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Apr 21 16:58:58 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2022 20:58:58 +0000 Subject: :memory: heads up Message-ID: <49B6665E-EE39-4A68-B709-CDBD981FC8DF@iotecdigital.com> Hi all. I just wanted to alert anyone working with memory databases. Normally when you call revOpenDatabase("sqLite", filename) it will open the sqLite database with all the tables and data intact. HOWEVER... If you do this with ":memory:" instead of a filename then EACH TIME you call revOpenDatabase() it will create a NEW MEMORY DATABASE! I had no idea this was possible. I don't see anything in the dictionary about it. In fact, :memory: does not even show up in the dictionary! LOL! I had to update my arrayToSQLite handler with an additional parameter, pDBID, and I only call revOpenDatabase() if that parameter is empty. Here is an updated version in case anyone is using it (however unlikely) : /* The following function will attempt to open a database passed in pDBFile, which should be the full path to an sqLite database file, or else a memory database. It will then *attempt* to drop the table passed in pDBName. It will leave other tables intact, so tables can be added and dropped as needed by calling this function. pArrayDataA must be a 2 dimensional numbered array, such as the kind used by datagrids. Nested arrays are not supported. provide pDBID if there is already a memory database open. */ FUNCTION arrayToSQLite pArrayDataA, pDBFile, pDBName, pDBID put the keys of pArrayDataA into tArrayKeys sort tArrayKeys numeric ascending IF pDBFile is empty THEN put ":memory:" into pDBFile IF pDBName is empty THEN put "arraydata" into pDBName TRY if pDBID is empty then \ put revOpenDatabase("sqlite", pDBFile) into pDBID IF "Error" is in pDBID THEN return empty END IF put "drop table " & pDBName into tDropSQL revExecuteSQL pDBID, tDropSQL put the result into tResult CATCH tError answer tError IF the environment is "development" THEN exit to top ELSE quit END TRY -- create the table put "create table" && quote & pDBName & quote \ & cr into tCreateCommand put "(" & quote & "recordid" & quote && "NUMERIC PRIMARY KEY UNIQUE, " \ & cr AFTER tCreateCommand put the keys of pArrayDataA [1] into tRecordKeyList REPEAT for each line tRecordKey in tRecordKeyList if pArrayDataA [1] [tRecordKey] is an array then put "BLOB" into tColumnType else put VARCHAR into tColumnType end if put quote & tRecordKey & quote && tColumnType & "," && cr AFTER tCreateCommand END REPEAT delete char -3 to -1 of tCreateCommand put ")" AFTER tCreateCommand TRY revExecuteSQL pDBID, tCreateCommand put the result into tResult IF tResult is not 0 THEN breakpoint CATCH tError breakpoint END TRY put 1 into tRecordCounter put "recordid" & cr & tRecordKeyList into tColumns repeat with i = 1 to the number of lines of tColumns put ":" & i into item i of tColumnList end repeat put "(" & tColumnList & ")" into tColumnList -- insert data REPEAT for each line tKey in tArrayKeys put 1 into tColumnCounter put pArrayDataA [tKey] into tRecordDataA put tRecordCounter into tQueryDataA [1] REPEAT for each line tRecordKey in tRecordKeyList add 1 to tColumnCounter if tRecordDataA [tRecordKey] is an array then put arrayEncode(tRecordDataA [tRecordKey]) into tValue else put tRecordDataA [tRecordKey] into tValue end if put tValue into tQueryDataA [tColumnCounter] END REPEAT put "insert into" && pDBName && "VALUES" && tColumnList into tInsertSQL TRY revExecuteSQL pDBID, tInsertSQL, "tQueryDataA" put the result into tResult if the result is not a number then breakpoint CATCH tError breakpoint END TRY add 1 to tRecordCounter END REPEAT return pDBID END arrayToSQLite From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Apr 21 22:52:02 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2022 02:52:02 +0000 Subject: Advantages of Memory based sqLite databases Message-ID: <79D69774-CFDE-49DB-8D1B-579EBC313720@iotecdigital.com> Hi all. Just an exercise in semi-futility here. I was curious about the actual difference in performance between querying a memory based sqLite database, as opposed to querying a mySQL database over a slow (iPhone hotspot) connection. I expected it to be significant, but HOW significant I had no idea. Querying for one record produced a performance ratio of 2600 to 1. Some will say, "Of course! What did you expect?" That is just the point. Many people assume repeated queries of an SQL database over a network to be tolerable, even if the connection is remote. But what if your application needs to make repeated queries? At some point, the overhead of repeated queries will exceed that of querying for all or a subset of the data once, storing it in a memory database, then performing your repeated queries on the memory database instead. I will test this over a LAN connection when I get into work tomorrow, but I expect it to be, if not AS significant, certainly more that one would expect. Just food for thought. Bob S From dochawk at gmail.com Thu Apr 21 23:03:02 2022 From: dochawk at gmail.com (doc hawk) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2022 20:03:02 -0700 Subject: Advantages of Memory based sqLite databases In-Reply-To: <79D69774-CFDE-49DB-8D1B-579EBC313720@iotecdigital.com> References: <79D69774-CFDE-49DB-8D1B-579EBC313720@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: The difference between :memory: and the local hard disk is, in itself, stunning. I initially set up with mysql, and (iirc) disk sqlite. Whether it’s mysql or livecode’s fault, it isn’t (wans’t?) possible to to do a compound transaction to a mysql server. So when I opened a “file” (a couple of tables per debtor for my software), it took *minutes* on a remote server to do what took a couple of seconds for a local sqlite file. And an in-memory database was instantaneous. If you need remote, there is a very many to one difference between Postgres (which can handle a transaction of several hundred queries at once) and mysql (which requires several hundred queries in sequence, with full latency applied to each one). And another huge boost for going to in-memory sqlite. (Don’t believe the bit about simultaneous access to sqlite files, it doesn’t quite work!). So I settled on a remote Postgres, in which I stored the commands to update the in-memory sqlite. The catch, of course, is that livecode never implemented the encrypted connection that Postgres supports out off the box. If I was going to continue, I’d probably go to a local Postgres server on each machine with REPLICATE, and stay with in-memory sqlite—but barring any surprises, I’ll just retire instead. From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Apr 21 23:25:22 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2022 03:25:22 +0000 Subject: Advantages of Memory based sqLite databases In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <909887BA-8F4E-4E85-9612-CE99F56530DB@iotecdigital.com> I made a client server proof of concept which encrypted messages before sending and decrypted them on the other end. The upshot was that I can send an encrypted query string from the client to the server, the server which handles the database connection stuff performs the query, then returns the data as an encoded array, also encrypted of course. It worked a peach. It can be used for anything. Sending Files to a remote server for example. It uses simple sockets for the connection, and I use a unique method for poisoning the payload so it cannot be cracked without having the poison pill, or the antidote as it were. And if you have that, I am likely dead. Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 21, 2022, at 20:04, doc hawk via use-livecode wrote: > > The difference between :memory: and the local hard disk is, in itself, stunning. > > I initially set up with mysql, and (iirc) disk sqlite. > > Whether it’s mysql or livecode’s fault, it isn’t (wans’t?) possible to to do a compound transaction to a mysql server. > > So when I opened a “file” (a couple of tables per debtor for my software), it took *minutes* on a remote server to do what took a couple of seconds for a local sqlite file. > > And an in-memory database was instantaneous. > > If you need remote, there is a very many to one difference between Postgres (which can handle a transaction of several hundred queries at once) and mysql (which requires several hundred queries in sequence, with full latency applied to each one). > > And another huge boost for going to in-memory sqlite. (Don’t believe the bit about simultaneous access to sqlite files, it doesn’t quite work!). > > So I settled on a remote Postgres, in which I stored the commands to update the in-memory sqlite. > > The catch, of course, is that livecode never implemented the encrypted connection that Postgres supports out off the box. > > If I was going to continue, I’d probably go to a local Postgres server on each machine with REPLICATE, and stay with in-memory sqlite—but barring any surprises, I’ll just retire instead. > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Apr 22 11:07:52 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2022 15:07:52 +0000 Subject: Advantages of Memory based sqLite databases In-Reply-To: <79D69774-CFDE-49DB-8D1B-579EBC313720@iotecdigital.com> References: <79D69774-CFDE-49DB-8D1B-579EBC313720@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: So I tested this when I got in the shop this morning. The memory database is roughly 450:1 over an sqLite database on the LAN. That is incredibly significant, if the goal is to start with a certain dataset, then query it over and over. Bob S > On Apr 21, 2022, at 19:52 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi all. > > Just an exercise in semi-futility here. I was curious about the actual difference in performance between querying a memory based sqLite database, as opposed to querying a mySQL database over a slow (iPhone hotspot) connection. I expected it to be significant, but HOW significant I had no idea. > > Querying for one record produced a performance ratio of 2600 to 1. Some will say, "Of course! What did you expect?" That is just the point. Many people assume repeated queries of an SQL database over a network to be tolerable, even if the connection is remote. But what if your application needs to make repeated queries? At some point, the overhead of repeated queries will exceed that of querying for all or a subset of the data once, storing it in a memory database, then performing your repeated queries on the memory database instead. > > I will test this over a LAN connection when I get into work tomorrow, but I expect it to be, if not AS significant, certainly more that one would expect. > > Just food for thought. > > Bob S > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Fri Apr 22 13:07:56 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2022 13:07:56 -0400 Subject: optionKeyDown message broken In-Reply-To: <1c71a1a7-b4af-53af-d28f-df2e60fc17e3@researchware.com> References: <76a263e1-96b4-cbdf-3f64-bf87269182ac@researchware.com> <578444fa-b460-ef07-4e28-5130d692dbc8@hyperactivesw.com> <1c71a1a7-b4af-53af-d28f-df2e60fc17e3@researchware.com> Message-ID: FYI for anyone who is interested: I submitted a bug report for the broken state of the optionKeyDown message. See https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23688 Please follow if you are interested in seeing this fixed. From ahsoftware at sonic.net Fri Apr 22 13:08:24 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2022 10:08:24 -0700 Subject: ANN: PowerDebug 2.3 Message-ID: Hi- It's been some three years since a major new release of PowerDebug, and with the 2022 LiveCode conference right around the corner, I think it's time to release PowerDebug 2.3. NOTE: in order to get responsive speed out of this thing, it's now only backwards-compatible to LiveCode 8.0. What's in the new build: * Much faster, especially viewing array variable elements. Yes... expanding big arrays in debug mode was painful before. Faster code colorization as well. * Faster and more robust standalone debugging. Still works locally or in the same subnet using sockets. Debug standalone applications with two lines of code. * Code profiling. If you don't already have the Pro package from LC, PowerDebug will add a new menuItem to the Development menu to toggle profiling on/off. Note that profiling *will* slow down your code considerably, but PowerDebug will display execution times down to the microsecond. * Improved error reporting, update checking, and more. Note that the usernames and passwords have changed for the new version. The url remains the same, but you'll need the new information to download the new version. And as always, your registration will never expire, so you have access to the latest versions. Documentation is at url: Known issues: LiveCode on Windows still doesn't support the long milliseconds, so I'm extrapolating to microseconds over multiple iterations. I don't have an iPhone or associated Apple developer account to test with, so I can't verify that standalone debugging works on iOS. Any help testing this would be appreciated. As long as iOS supports socket communications I assume this would work, but you never know. NOTE: I announced the new build to registered users earlier but I have several bounced messages. If you've previously registered PowerDebug but haven't gotten an email from me about it, get in touch. You won't be able to grab the new version without updated registration info. From tom at makeshyft.com Fri Apr 22 22:01:44 2022 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2022 22:01:44 -0400 Subject: ANN: PowerDebug 2.3 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey Mark, I will def check this out. Thank you. On Fri, Apr 22, 2022 at 1:09 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi- > > It's been some three years since a major new release of PowerDebug, and > with the 2022 LiveCode conference right around the corner, I think it's > time to release PowerDebug 2.3. > > NOTE: in order to get responsive speed out of this thing, it's now only > backwards-compatible to LiveCode 8.0. > > What's in the new build: > > * Much faster, especially viewing array variable elements. > Yes... expanding big arrays in debug mode was painful before. > Faster code colorization as well. > > * Faster and more robust standalone debugging. > Still works locally or in the same subnet using sockets. Debug > standalone applications with two lines of code. > > * Code profiling. > If you don't already have the Pro package from LC, PowerDebug will add a > new menuItem to the Development menu to toggle profiling on/off. Note > that profiling *will* slow down your code considerably, but PowerDebug > will display execution times down to the microsecond. > > * Improved error reporting, update checking, and more. > > Note that the usernames and passwords have changed for the new version. > The url remains the same, but you'll need the new information to > download the new version. And as always, your registration will never > expire, so you have access to the latest versions. > > Documentation is at > > url: > > > Known issues: > > LiveCode on Windows still doesn't support the long milliseconds, so I'm > extrapolating to microseconds over multiple iterations. > > I don't have an iPhone or associated Apple developer account to test > with, so I can't verify that standalone debugging works on iOS. Any help > testing this would be appreciated. As long as iOS supports socket > communications I assume this would work, but you never know. > > NOTE: I announced the new build to registered users earlier but I have > several bounced messages. If you've previously registered PowerDebug but > haven't gotten an email from me about it, get in touch. You won't be > able to grab the new version without updated registration info. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From craig at starfirelighting.com Tue Apr 26 15:37:15 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2022 15:37:15 -0400 Subject: Single Window LC IDE? Message-ID: <49FEA291-93F8-4611-8F11-18FE9F36A36B@starfirelighting.com> Saw this on Kevin's keynote. Some parts of having such a thing, as opposed to a sea of separate palettes, are attractive indeed. But one aspect would prevent me from EVER upgrading to v10, and that is if the SE also had to be incorporated into that single window. Anyone know if this is in fact planned? Craig From paul at researchware.com Tue Apr 26 16:22:06 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2022 16:22:06 -0400 Subject: Single Window LC IDE? In-Reply-To: <49FEA291-93F8-4611-8F11-18FE9F36A36B@starfirelighting.com> References: <49FEA291-93F8-4611-8F11-18FE9F36A36B@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: <7f626f44-d96d-d83b-bf80-dc7f3a401079@researchware.com> I didn't have a chance to ask follow up questions, but I recall Kevin saying they were headed towards "dockable windows", presumably meaning that all (or many) of the parts of the IDE can be docked into a single window view or undocked to separate windows (for example for people with multiple monitors doing desktop development. I have no idea if that includes the Script Editor, but I might expect that it would. On 4/26/2022 3:37 PM, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: > Saw this on Kevin's keynote. > > Some parts of having such a thing, as opposed to a sea of separate palettes, are attractive indeed. > > But one aspect would prevent me from EVER upgrading to v10, and that is if the SE also had to be incorporated into that single window. Anyone know if this is in fact planned? > > Craig > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Tue Apr 26 17:11:11 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2022 17:11:11 -0400 Subject: Single Window LC IDE? In-Reply-To: <7f626f44-d96d-d83b-bf80-dc7f3a401079@researchware.com> References: <49FEA291-93F8-4611-8F11-18FE9F36A36B@starfirelighting.com> <7f626f44-d96d-d83b-bf80-dc7f3a401079@researchware.com> Message-ID: I'm with you, Craig. There has never been a good single-window IDE, ever. I commented on this issue during the keynote. Kevin said that it would be an option, but not mandatory. If LC createss a browser-based IDE, which was discussed, it may be more difficult to support multiple windows _in_that_workflow_, so I can understand what they may be thinking about. On Tue, Apr 26, 2022 at 4:23 PM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I didn't have a chance to ask follow up questions, but I recall Kevin > saying they were headed towards "dockable windows", presumably meaning > that all (or many) of the parts of the IDE can be docked into a single > window view or undocked to separate windows (for example for people with > multiple monitors doing desktop development. I have no idea if that > includes the Script Editor, but I might expect that it would. > > On 4/26/2022 3:37 PM, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: > > Saw this on Kevin's keynote. > > > > Some parts of having such a thing, as opposed to a sea of separate > palettes, are attractive indeed. > > > > But one aspect would prevent me from EVER upgrading to v10, and that is > if the SE also had to be incorporated into that single window. Anyone know > if this is in fact planned? > > > > Craig > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From tom at makeshyft.com Tue Apr 26 17:18:16 2022 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2022 17:18:16 -0400 Subject: Single Window LC IDE? In-Reply-To: References: <49FEA291-93F8-4611-8F11-18FE9F36A36B@starfirelighting.com> <7f626f44-d96d-d83b-bf80-dc7f3a401079@researchware.com> Message-ID: I wouldn't worry that they will pigeon-hole the ide in that way. That would be madness. Cheers, Tom On Tue, Apr 26, 2022 at 5:13 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I'm with you, Craig. There has never been a good single-window IDE, ever. > I commented on this issue during the keynote. Kevin said that it would be > an option, but not mandatory. > If LC createss a browser-based IDE, which was discussed, it may be more > difficult to support multiple windows _in_that_workflow_, so I can > understand what they may be thinking about. > > On Tue, Apr 26, 2022 at 4:23 PM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > I didn't have a chance to ask follow up questions, but I recall Kevin > > saying they were headed towards "dockable windows", presumably meaning > > that all (or many) of the parts of the IDE can be docked into a single > > window view or undocked to separate windows (for example for people with > > multiple monitors doing desktop development. I have no idea if that > > includes the Script Editor, but I might expect that it would. > > > > On 4/26/2022 3:37 PM, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: > > > Saw this on Kevin's keynote. > > > > > > Some parts of having such a thing, as opposed to a sea of separate > > palettes, are attractive indeed. > > > > > > But one aspect would prevent me from EVER upgrading to v10, and that is > > if the SE also had to be incorporated into that single window. Anyone > know > > if this is in fact planned? > > > > > > Craig > > > _______________________________________________ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dochawk at gmail.com Tue Apr 26 17:57:59 2022 From: dochawk at gmail.com (doc hawk) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2022 14:57:59 -0700 Subject: Single Window LC IDE? In-Reply-To: References: <49FEA291-93F8-4611-8F11-18FE9F36A36B@starfirelighting.com> <7f626f44-d96d-d83b-bf80-dc7f3a401079@researchware.com> Message-ID: tom tumbled, >I wouldn't worry that they will pigeon-hole the ide in that way. >That would be madness. Was it StarOffie 4 (or 5?) that shipped such madness? I recall it being *utterly* unusable, and staying with the prior version. From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed Apr 27 09:17:01 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 09:17:01 -0400 Subject: Single Window LC IDE? In-Reply-To: References: <49FEA291-93F8-4611-8F11-18FE9F36A36B@starfirelighting.com> <7f626f44-d96d-d83b-bf80-dc7f3a401079@researchware.com> Message-ID: yeah, well, they not only discussed it, but they demo'd it, and seemed to be amped about it, so i'm concerned. On Tue, Apr 26, 2022 at 5:59 PM doc hawk via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > tom tumbled, > > >I wouldn't worry that they will pigeon-hole the ide in that way. > >That would be madness. > > Was it StarOffie 4 (or 5?) that shipped such madness? > > I recall it being *utterly* unusable, and staying with the prior version. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From dvglasgow at gmail.com Wed Apr 27 10:06:50 2022 From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David V Glasgow) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 15:06:50 +0100 Subject: Single Window LC IDE? In-Reply-To: References: <49FEA291-93F8-4611-8F11-18FE9F36A36B@starfirelighting.com> <7f626f44-d96d-d83b-bf80-dc7f3a401079@researchware.com> Message-ID: > On 27 Apr 2022, at 2:17 pm, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > they not only discussed it, but they demo'd it … and referred to it as a “new ‘dock windows’ capability”. Which sounds like it will still be each to his/her own. Cheers David G From williamdesmet at gmail.com Wed Apr 27 11:12:32 2022 From: williamdesmet at gmail.com (William de Smet) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 17:12:32 +0200 Subject: Curved text possible? Message-ID: Hi There, I am in the need for curved text. User input via a text field need to have a copied curved text output. Is this even possible in Livecode? I was thinking of text to the points of a path? Something like that? Greetings William From craig at starfirelighting.com Wed Apr 27 11:20:50 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 11:20:50 -0400 Subject: Curved text possible? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: How large is this curved text? You could certainly create an entire alphabet with polyLines, and insert them as needed to replace a body of text. But if you need 12 point size, those graphics are going to be, er, difficult to do nicely. Craig > On Apr 27, 2022, at 11:12 AM, William de Smet via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi There, > > I am in the need for curved text. > User input via a text field need to have a copied curved text output. > Is this even possible in Livecode? > I was thinking of text to the points of a path? Something like that? > > > Greetings William > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Wed Apr 27 11:44:03 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 11:44:03 -0400 Subject: Curved text possible? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55ce36bf-1810-076b-0dd6-3481ca515889@researchware.com> There is not a native way to do this in LiveCode. An approach might be to use the shell() function (see Dictionary) to pass the text to some external graphics utility that renders and image of it curved and then import the image back into Livecode. There may be other work-arounds. On 4/27/2022 11:12 AM, William de Smet via use-livecode wrote: > Hi There, > > I am in the need for curved text. > User input via a text field need to have a copied curved text output. > Is this even possible in Livecode? > I was thinking of text to the points of a path? Something like that? > > > Greetings William > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Wed Apr 27 11:49:31 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 11:49:31 -0400 Subject: Single Window LC IDE? In-Reply-To: References: <49FEA291-93F8-4611-8F11-18FE9F36A36B@starfirelighting.com> <7f626f44-d96d-d83b-bf80-dc7f3a401079@researchware.com> Message-ID: On 4/27/2022 10:06 AM, David V Glasgow via use-livecode wrote: > >> On 27 Apr 2022, at 2:17 pm, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: >> >> they not only discussed it, but they demo'd it > and referred to it as a new dock windows capability. Which sounds like it will still be each to his/her own. Well, if the language isn't updated to support dockable windows then that sucks! I've coded dockable windows in LC script currently. Each of 2 Windows has a group that contains all the relevant functions of the windows. One window has a dock/undock control outside it's groups. Docking moves the groups to the 1st window and remove the window so now the 1st window contains the 2 functional groups next to one another. The groups that was just docked has an undock control. Clicking it move that group back to it's own window which appears and is sized appropriately and the 1st window is resized for just the single group. It is a pain to script and it would make single vs multiple window layout management much easier if it was built into the language in some way. From williamdesmet at gmail.com Wed Apr 27 11:50:56 2022 From: williamdesmet at gmail.com (William de Smet) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 17:50:56 +0200 Subject: Curved text possible? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Craig, The text will mostly be names at start (but could also be more words in the future). Draw with polyLines. Didn't think of that. A lot of coding I think. Then I could also use SVG files to replace the text of the field. Maybe easier to enlarge, rotate a bit and give another backgroundcolor? The number of chars of fld "name" gives me the number of letters. Is there a quick way to define which letter on which place in the name? groeten, William Op wo 27 apr. 2022 om 17:21 schreef Craig Newman via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: > How large is this curved text? > > You could certainly create an entire alphabet with polyLines, and insert > them as needed to replace a body of text. But if you need 12 point size, > those graphics are going to be, er, difficult to do nicely. > > Craig > > > On Apr 27, 2022, at 11:12 AM, William de Smet via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > Hi There, > > > > I am in the need for curved text. > > User input via a text field need to have a copied curved text output. > > Is this even possible in Livecode? > > I was thinking of text to the points of a path? Something like that? > > > > > > Greetings William > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From williamdesmet at gmail.com Wed Apr 27 11:52:09 2022 From: williamdesmet at gmail.com (William de Smet) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 17:52:09 +0200 Subject: Curved text possible? In-Reply-To: <55ce36bf-1810-076b-0dd6-3481ca515889@researchware.com> References: <55ce36bf-1810-076b-0dd6-3481ca515889@researchware.com> Message-ID: Hi Paul, It will be an iOS app. groeten, William Op wo 27 apr. 2022 om 17:45 schreef Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: > There is not a native way to do this in LiveCode. > > An approach might be to use the shell() function (see Dictionary) to > pass the text to some external graphics utility that renders and image > of it curved and then import the image back into Livecode. There may be > other work-arounds. > > On 4/27/2022 11:12 AM, William de Smet via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi There, > > > > I am in the need for curved text. > > User input via a text field need to have a copied curved text output. > > Is this even possible in Livecode? > > I was thinking of text to the points of a path? Something like that? > > > > > > Greetings William > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Apr 27 11:58:12 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 10:58:12 -0500 Subject: Single Window LC IDE? In-Reply-To: References: <49FEA291-93F8-4611-8F11-18FE9F36A36B@starfirelighting.com> <7f626f44-d96d-d83b-bf80-dc7f3a401079@researchware.com> Message-ID: <1806bbe8a38.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> In a later session they said it was just a mock up at this point. When asked about supporting multiple monitors they said it would, and they'd need to consider tear-off windows. I like the new look very much, but most of us old timers have specific requirements which LC agrees they want to accommodate. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On April 27, 2022 8:20:01 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > yeah, well, they not only discussed it, but they demo'd it, and seemed to > be amped about it, so i'm concerned. > > On Tue, Apr 26, 2022 at 5:59 PM doc hawk via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> tom tumbled, >> >> >I wouldn't worry that they will pigeon-hole the ide in that way. >> >That would be madness. >> >> Was it StarOffie 4 (or 5?) that shipped such madness? >> >> I recall it being *utterly* unusable, and staying with the prior version. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Wed Apr 27 12:24:26 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 12:24:26 -0400 Subject: Single Window LC IDE? In-Reply-To: <1806bbe8a38.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <49FEA291-93F8-4611-8F11-18FE9F36A36B@starfirelighting.com> <7f626f44-d96d-d83b-bf80-dc7f3a401079@researchware.com> <1806bbe8a38.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <6a9ae50f-d855-c6ae-c5c8-9eabe98fa897@researchware.com> On 4/27/2022 11:58 AM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > I like the new look very much, but most of us old timers have specific > requirements which LC agrees they want to accommodate. I'm fine with the IDE being either multi-window or single-window. I've worked with both in the past and can adapt to either. I would REALLY like language support for easier layouts, from groups (or views) with built-in slidable dividers (H & V) to easier way to set up resizable groups or controls. The geometry manager is not idea and coding by hand gets exact results but is time intensive. Language support for "tearable" or "dockable" windows is another HIGHLY desired enhancement. 80% of our development time is on the UI. We're a data analytics product. Much more of our developer time should be on the data analysis code for new analytical features not  simply making the UI work. From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org Wed Apr 27 12:38:43 2022 From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (ELS Prothero) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 09:38:43 -0700 Subject: Curved text possible? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2EC34B06-F3C8-42F9-9495-F128A7BB7EFB@earthlearningsolutions.org> Folks, I made a vertically oriented y axis text label for a data plot once. The text was written in a field with a transparent background, then a screen capture of the text field area, then rotating the captured image 90 degrees. It worked great. Obvious limitation was that the background was included in the capture. I wonder if something like this could be done letter by letter, then re-captured in a summary graphic. I seem to remember someone making a plugin, years ago, that made text on a curve. Best, Bill William Prothero https://earthlearningsolutions.org > On Apr 27, 2022, at 8:53 AM, William de Smet via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Paul, > > It will be an iOS app. > > > groeten, > > William > > > > > Op wo 27 apr. 2022 om 17:45 schreef Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: > >> There is not a native way to do this in LiveCode. >> >> An approach might be to use the shell() function (see Dictionary) to >> pass the text to some external graphics utility that renders and image >> of it curved and then import the image back into Livecode. There may be >> other work-arounds. >> >>> On 4/27/2022 11:12 AM, William de Smet via use-livecode wrote: >>> Hi There, >>> >>> I am in the need for curved text. >>> User input via a text field need to have a copied curved text output. >>> Is this even possible in Livecode? >>> I was thinking of text to the points of a path? Something like that? >>> >>> >>> Greetings William >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Apr 27 12:39:20 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 16:39:20 +0000 Subject: Single Window LC IDE? In-Reply-To: <6a9ae50f-d855-c6ae-c5c8-9eabe98fa897@researchware.com> References: <49FEA291-93F8-4611-8F11-18FE9F36A36B@starfirelighting.com> <7f626f44-d96d-d83b-bf80-dc7f3a401079@researchware.com> <1806bbe8a38.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <6a9ae50f-d855-c6ae-c5c8-9eabe98fa897@researchware.com> Message-ID: <8812DF51-7463-43DD-BE0D-BB5D3DCCF100@iotecdigital.com> I watched the keynote by Kevin, and I think all your concerns are slated to be addressed. Bob S > On Apr 27, 2022, at 09:24 , Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > > On 4/27/2022 11:58 AM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >> I like the new look very much, but most of us old timers have specific requirements which LC agrees they want to accommodate. > > I'm fine with the IDE being either multi-window or single-window. I've worked with both in the past and can adapt to either. > > I would REALLY like language support for easier layouts, from groups (or views) with built-in slidable dividers (H & V) to easier way to set up resizable groups or controls. The geometry manager is not idea and coding by hand gets exact results but is time intensive. Language support for "tearable" or "dockable" windows is another HIGHLY desired enhancement. > > 80% of our development time is on the UI. We're a data analytics product. Much more of our developer time should be on the data analysis code for new analytical features not simply making the UI work. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From craig at starfirelighting.com Wed Apr 27 12:39:40 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 12:39:40 -0400 Subject: Curved text possible? In-Reply-To: References: <55ce36bf-1810-076b-0dd6-3481ca515889@researchware.com> Message-ID: <0EE69B34-9150-468D-9590-C03D4D353168@starfirelighting.com> The polyLine character substitution will be a simple. Creation will be a bear, but only once. If you had “Hello World” and wanted to “curve” it, you would simply pull the appropriate curved chars, “H”,, “e’, “l, etc. and string them together. Uh oh, what about kerning? I hope this is a monospaced curved font you are thinking about. Craig > On Apr 27, 2022, at 11:52 AM, William de Smet via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Paul, > > It will be an iOS app. > > > groeten, > > William > > > > > Op wo 27 apr. 2022 om 17:45 schreef Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: > >> There is not a native way to do this in LiveCode. >> >> An approach might be to use the shell() function (see Dictionary) to >> pass the text to some external graphics utility that renders and image >> of it curved and then import the image back into Livecode. There may be >> other work-arounds. >> >> On 4/27/2022 11:12 AM, William de Smet via use-livecode wrote: >>> Hi There, >>> >>> I am in the need for curved text. >>> User input via a text field need to have a copied curved text output. >>> Is this even possible in Livecode? >>> I was thinking of text to the points of a path? Something like that? >>> >>> >>> Greetings William >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dochawk at gmail.com Wed Apr 27 12:47:46 2022 From: dochawk at gmail.com (doc hawk) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 09:47:46 -0700 Subject: Curved text possible? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D1A0C7B-72A6-47C1-A625-7C69043496DD@gmail.com> I looked at this some years ago. I forget why I wanted to do it (a logo, perhaps?). My conclusion was that the best way would be to write it as either eps or postscript. This gives you something that can be trivially rotated without loss, but the catch is that you have to then feed it to an external program to concert it to something that livecode can display (png, jpg, whatever). I decided that it wasn’t worth the effort,. At the time, eps was still included in the documentation, but I think the last platforms livecode actually supported eps on were NeXT and Sunos From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Apr 27 14:26:21 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 11:26:21 -0700 Subject: You're invited: LC DevCon After-Party Message-ID: <6d3ad3f7-08aa-a99f-65ac-0410825b56a7@fourthworld.com> The LC DevCon is so much fun it seems fitting to add one more session off-schedule and completely informal: a Zoom after-party. Come and hang out anytime today (Weed, 27 April) from 6:00 PM EDT until 6:40 PM EDT. That gives us an hour after the close of the last session to take a moment to breathe and catch up on emails and stuff before hanging out with pals to discuss the conference and anything else that comes up. Here's the Zoom invite - zoom will grant access for the first 100 attendees, and we'll have 40 minutes to hang out: ---------- Richard Gaskin is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting. Topic: LiveCode DevCon After-Party Time: Apr 27, 2022 03:00 PM Pacific Time (US and Canada) Join Zoom Meeting https://us02web.zoom.us/j/88049771247?pwd=VUVPdVJBQnYwT09pdThzdE04djVMZz09 Meeting ID: 880 4977 1247 Passcode: 1q8uGx -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems From ahsoftware at sonic.net Wed Apr 27 17:52:58 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 14:52:58 -0700 Subject: ANN: PowerTools 2.2.0 Message-ID: <1a019f7f-e8db-f386-1cf3-84bc43bb8ac9@sonic.net> Hi- It's been some four years since a major new release of PowerTools, and with the 2022 LiveCode conference out of the way for now, I think it's time to release PowerTools 2.2. What's in PowerTools: * Logical separation of tools from objects * Double-click to minimize/restore size * Non-blocking optional date/version check Objects: * Gives unique names for newly-created objects * More built-in tools (H/V field splitters, menubar, progressbars, etc) * Stack factory (built-in and custom sizes) Paint/Graphic tools: * Paint/Graphic tools retain individual properties Widgets: * Support for LCB widgets and LCS group controls * Organize widgets into folders * Supports file links cross-platform As always, PowerTools registrations will never expire, so you always have access to the latest versions. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From paul at researchware.com Wed Apr 27 18:21:26 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 18:21:26 -0400 Subject: LC 9.6.7 export snapshot from a player object seems to fail on Windows (10) Message-ID: I am executing the following 2 lines of code:               export snapshot from rect tRect of player "mediaConvert" of stack "libHrAPI" to tImage as PNG               put tImage into img "imageConvert" of stack "libHrAPI" Prior to the export the player has a video load and has the currentTime set to a particular frame, and I can see in the stack that the player is showing the correct frame is visible. I can also see that the image "imageConvert" is also visible, but empty After the Export Snapshot is executed, it looks like tImage contains valid PNG data, although I can not tell if it is the correct image After the Put statement, the image "imageConvert" is set to a white rectangle with a little bit of the player border on the left and top. It is the same size as the player where as the empty image I started with was larger. This is with LC 9.6.7 on Windows 10. This code works on macOS. Does anyone know if there is a known Windows bug with export a snapshot form a player and any work around? From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu Apr 28 09:44:38 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 09:44:38 -0400 Subject: devcon 2022 recap Message-ID: I am stuck in a time sink. I missed just about all of the devcon as a result. Anyone want to fire off on a recap? -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From marksmithhfx at gmail.com Thu Apr 28 10:13:59 2022 From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 15:13:59 +0100 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mike, check out the LC blog posts for summaries of Days 1 and 2, not sure if a day 3 will be posted (https://livecode.com/reporting-on-day-1-of-the-livecode-conference/). > On 28 Apr 2022, at 14:44, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > I am stuck in a time sink. I missed just about all of the devcon as a > result. Anyone want to fire off on a recap? > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mkoob at rogers.com Thu Apr 28 11:10:43 2022 From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 11:10:43 -0400 Subject: Curved text possible? In-Reply-To: <4D1A0C7B-72A6-47C1-A625-7C69043496DD@gmail.com> References: <4D1A0C7B-72A6-47C1-A625-7C69043496DD@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0D4E5104-2E75-4978-A083-BEE016B844B7@rogers.com> I was thinking that SVG might work as someone else has said. At first I thought you could create individual files for each letter and number and put the path for a letter into a svg widget which you could rotate or scale. you would then have to calculate the angle of rotation and location of each svg widget on a path. But then when I tried rotating the svg widget its scale would change as it rotated because the bounds of the rect were changing. Then you would have to calculate the scale depending on the rotation angle and that seemed a bit much. I also thought you could import the svg file as an image and perhaps that would not have the odd behaviour when rotating. I did not try that though. Then I found this. https://css-tricks.com/snippets/svg/curved-text-along-path/ it shows how to use css to put text along a SVG path. At the LiveCode Dev Con there were a few unconventional uses of the browser widget beyond displaying webpages that add features that can add features that LiveCode does not have natively. So I thought maybe this is one of them. So what I thought could be done is display the above in a browser widget or, If you did not want to show the browser widget, use the browser widget to render the curved text, thentake a snapshot of the rendered text and then show that in an image. Not sure if it will work but the sessions at the conference have really got me thinking of new ways to leverage the technology in that widget. Martin Koob > On Apr 27, 2022, at 12:47 PM, doc hawk via use-livecode wrote: > > I looked at this some years ago. I forget why I wanted to do it (a logo, perhaps?). > > My conclusion was that the best way would be to write it as either eps or postscript. > > This gives you something that can be trivially rotated without loss, but the catch is that you have to then feed it to an external program to concert it to something that livecode can display (png, jpg, whatever). > > I decided that it wasn’t worth the effort,. > > At the time, eps was still included in the documentation, but I think the last platforms livecode actually supported eps on were NeXT and Sunos > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu Apr 28 11:12:47 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 11:12:47 -0400 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I did, but I was hoping for some community comment, as well. On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 10:15 AM Mark Smith via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Mike, check out the LC blog posts for summaries of Days 1 and 2, not sure > if a day 3 will be posted ( > https://livecode.com/reporting-on-day-1-of-the-livecode-conference/). > > > On 28 Apr 2022, at 14:44, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > I am stuck in a time sink. I missed just about all of the devcon as a > > result. Anyone want to fire off on a recap? > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Apr 28 11:18:13 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 15:18:13 +0000 Subject: Curved text possible? In-Reply-To: <0D4E5104-2E75-4978-A083-BEE016B844B7@rogers.com> References: <4D1A0C7B-72A6-47C1-A625-7C69043496DD@gmail.com> <0D4E5104-2E75-4978-A083-BEE016B844B7@rogers.com> Message-ID: <8A2E9450-8F9F-4BB4-B235-7A353CC93EFB@iotecdigital.com> Great ideas Martin. I'm going to grant you an honorary doctorate from the institute of Sly Laboratories. Bob S > On Apr 28, 2022, at 08:10 , Martin Koob via use-livecode wrote: > > I was thinking that SVG might work as someone else has said. > > At first I thought you could create individual files for each letter and number and put the path for a letter into a svg widget which you could rotate or scale. > you would then have to calculate the angle of rotation and location of each svg widget on a path. But then when I tried rotating the svg widget its scale would change as it rotated because the bounds of the rect were changing. Then you would have to calculate the scale depending on the rotation angle and that seemed a bit much. > > I also thought you could import the svg file as an image and perhaps that would not have the odd behaviour when rotating. I did not try that though. > > Then I found this. > > https://css-tricks.com/snippets/svg/curved-text-along-path/ > > it shows how to use css to put text along a SVG path. At the LiveCode Dev Con there were a few unconventional uses of the browser widget beyond displaying webpages that add features that can add features that LiveCode does not have natively. So I thought maybe this is one of them. So what I thought could be done is display the above in a browser widget or, If you did not want to show the browser widget, use the browser widget to render the curved text, thentake a snapshot of the rendered text and then show that in an image. > > Not sure if it will work but the sessions at the conference have really got me thinking of new ways to leverage the technology in that widget. > > Martin Koob From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Thu Apr 28 11:25:20 2022 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 11:25:20 -0400 Subject: Curved text possible? In-Reply-To: <8A2E9450-8F9F-4BB4-B235-7A353CC93EFB@iotecdigital.com> References: <4D1A0C7B-72A6-47C1-A625-7C69043496DD@gmail.com> <0D4E5104-2E75-4978-A083-BEE016B844B7@rogers.com> <8A2E9450-8F9F-4BB4-B235-7A353CC93EFB@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <004101d85b14$2ecba080$8c62e180$@net> +1 Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Bob Sneidar via use-livecode Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2022 11:18 AM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Bob Sneidar Subject: Re: Curved text possible? Great ideas Martin. I'm going to grant you an honorary doctorate from the institute of Sly Laboratories. Bob S > On Apr 28, 2022, at 08:10 , Martin Koob via use-livecode wrote: > > I was thinking that SVG might work as someone else has said. > > At first I thought you could create individual files for each letter and number and put the path for a letter into a svg widget which you could rotate or scale. > you would then have to calculate the angle of rotation and location of each svg widget on a path. But then when I tried rotating the svg widget its scale would change as it rotated because the bounds of the rect were changing. Then you would have to calculate the scale depending on the rotation angle and that seemed a bit much. > > I also thought you could import the svg file as an image and perhaps that would not have the odd behaviour when rotating. I did not try that though. > > Then I found this. > > https://css-tricks.com/snippets/svg/curved-text-along-path/ > > it shows how to use css to put text along a SVG path. At the LiveCode Dev Con there were a few unconventional uses of the browser widget beyond displaying webpages that add features that can add features that LiveCode does not have natively. So I thought maybe this is one of them. So what I thought could be done is display the above in a browser widget or, If you did not want to show the browser widget, use the browser widget to render the curved text, thentake a snapshot of the rendered text and then show that in an image. > > Not sure if it will work but the sessions at the conference have really got me thinking of new ways to leverage the technology in that widget. > > Martin Koob _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Thu Apr 28 11:39:08 2022 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 17:39:08 +0200 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It was really an amazing event. And although i am not a big Zoom fan, the decision of the team to use Zoom was the right one. It allowed much more interaction. All 3 keynotes were very interesting and make me think and hope that Livecode Ltd. is on its right way to grow. Marks Waddingham's session about the script compiler... Okay, i did only understand half or quarter of it... ;) But that was not Mark's fault. It was caused by my lack of knowledge. The sessions 'Automate PDF Forms with LC Server' held by Christopher Flat and Michael McCreary's session 'Docker and Livecode Server' were the importan ones for me. I will definitely view all sessions i missed and will review all sessions i joined as soon as the recordings are available. All in all it was a really awesome experience and the next time i will be prepared and have my webcam set up. ;) I was so impressed especially by the planned new features of LC that i subscribed right away to the upcoming LC Global 22/23 which starts in May this year. https://livecode.com/global/global2022/ Matthias > Am 28.04.2022 um 17:12 schrieb Mike Kerner via use-livecode : > > I did, but I was hoping for some community comment, as well. > > On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 10:15 AM Mark Smith via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Mike, check out the LC blog posts for summaries of Days 1 and 2, not sure >> if a day 3 will be posted ( >> https://livecode.com/reporting-on-day-1-of-the-livecode-conference/). >> >>> On 28 Apr 2022, at 14:44, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>> I am stuck in a time sink. I missed just about all of the devcon as a >>> result. Anyone want to fire off on a recap? >>> >>> -- >>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >>> On the second day, God created the oceans. >>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >>> and did a little diving. >>> And God said, "This is good." >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From williamdesmet at gmail.com Thu Apr 28 11:42:00 2022 From: williamdesmet at gmail.com (William de Smet) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 17:42:00 +0200 Subject: Curved text possible? In-Reply-To: <004101d85b14$2ecba080$8c62e180$@net> References: <4D1A0C7B-72A6-47C1-A625-7C69043496DD@gmail.com> <0D4E5104-2E75-4978-A083-BEE016B844B7@rogers.com> <8A2E9450-8F9F-4BB4-B235-7A353CC93EFB@iotecdigital.com> <004101d85b14$2ecba080$8c62e180$@net> Message-ID: Thanks! I came up with sort of the same idea yesterday evening and I am tetsting it now. I load a local html file within the browser widget with circletype.js added to the html file. A native textfield (and some extra code) writes back into the html file and then I refresh the card. A snapshot gives me the curved text. There is also Arctext,js that I want to test. I will come back later with my result. groeten, William Op do 28 apr. 2022 om 17:24 schreef Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: > +1 > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On > Behalf > Of Bob Sneidar via use-livecode > Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2022 11:18 AM > To: How to use LiveCode > Cc: Bob Sneidar > Subject: Re: Curved text possible? > > Great ideas Martin. I'm going to grant you an honorary doctorate from the > institute of Sly Laboratories. > > Bob S > > > > On Apr 28, 2022, at 08:10 , Martin Koob via use-livecode > wrote: > > > > I was thinking that SVG might work as someone else has said. > > > > At first I thought you could create individual files for each letter and > number and put the path for a letter into a svg widget which you could > rotate or scale. > > you would then have to calculate the angle of rotation and location of > each svg widget on a path. But then when I tried rotating the svg widget > its scale would change as it rotated because the bounds of the rect were > changing. Then you would have to calculate the scale depending on the > rotation angle and that seemed a bit much. > > > > I also thought you could import the svg file as an image and perhaps that > would not have the odd behaviour when rotating. I did not try that though. > > > > Then I found this. > > > > https://css-tricks.com/snippets/svg/curved-text-along-path/ > > > > > it shows how to use css to put text along a SVG path. At the LiveCode > Dev > Con there were a few unconventional uses of the browser widget beyond > displaying webpages that add features that can add features that LiveCode > does not have natively. So I thought maybe this is one of them. So what I > thought could be done is display the above in a browser widget or, If you > did not want to show the browser widget, use the browser widget to render > the curved text, thentake a snapshot of the rendered text and then show > that > in an image. > > > > Not sure if it will work but the sessions at the conference have really > got me thinking of new ways to leverage the technology in that widget. > > > > Martin Koob > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From paul at researchware.com Thu Apr 28 11:49:37 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 11:49:37 -0400 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8f667f61-a644-7583-0832-a253de6fd2f6@researchware.com> On 4/28/2022 11:12 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > I did, but I was hoping for some community comment, as well. Here is my take on the content I was interested in: 1) Web application development. If you are building a new app for the web, you can do that pretty well now in LC 9.6.7 and LC 10 will be even better. 2) If you have an existing application, say for the Desktop, but also for Mobile, depending upon what that app does, porting it to the web under LC 9.6.7 can run into problems, under LC 10 it will be easier, but 10 still has a lot of "developer preview (dp) releases to go before all the things that will make web apps under 10 better will be there. 3) The compiler will be a nice addition for most people, an *essential* addition if you have some app that is currently performance constrained. The compiler is off in the LC 10 (release) and LC 11 time frame. 4) In Kevin keynote he alluded to some possible language/object enhancements t o make responsive UI design easier (less coding). These may (or may not) include such things as a "group type" object to layout panes or rows and columns  for interface elements (other LC objects) and - as part of another topic - a new single window IDE design may have dockable and undockable windows that may or may not have code support that developers can use to make having their own dockable/undockable windows built more easily. Some of this work will be a replacement for the Geometry Manager (little used due to problems with it) So, for me, a number of things I am keenly interested in: (1) easier posting of existing desktop apps to the web, (2) faster apps, and (3) language enhancements that may UI design faster and involves less coding. However none of this is available now and it will be arriving over various time frames from "soon" to "later". All comments and interpretations of what was presented are my own. Paul Dupuis Researchware From heather at livecode.com Thu Apr 28 11:51:35 2022 From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 16:51:35 +0100 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: A Day 3 will be posted: https://livecode.com/day-3-and-conference-roundup/ :) Enjoy. Best Regards, Heather Heather Laine Customer Services Manager LiveCode Ltd www.livecode.com > On 28 Apr 2022, at 15:13, Mark Smith via use-livecode wrote: > > Mike, check out the LC blog posts for summaries of Days 1 and 2, not sure if a day 3 will be posted (https://livecode.com/reporting-on-day-1-of-the-livecode-conference/). > >> On 28 Apr 2022, at 14:44, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: >> >> I am stuck in a time sink. I missed just about all of the devcon as a >> result. Anyone want to fire off on a recap? >> >> -- >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >> On the second day, God created the oceans. >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> and did a little diving. >> And God said, "This is good." >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From marksmithhfx at gmail.com Thu Apr 28 12:06:24 2022 From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 17:06:24 +0100 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I thought it was a pretty good conference Mike, and surprisingly well handled by Zoom (although it took me 3 days to figure out what all the bits and pieces of the interface were for) and there were some pretty great presentations. Some I had to miss because of other commitments so I’ll be looking forward to watching them post-conf when Heather has a chance to upload them. There were a lot of very forward looking sessions from Kevin and company, and Mark Talluto had an interesting take on app development presented during his plenary (Appli.io ). Lots of ideas I think on how things could be improved or, as Mark said “made as simple as possible, but no simpler” (or maybe that was Einstein!!). Either way, great quote/comment. Like Matthias, I signed up for the LC Global 22/23 just so I could keep up with it all during the coming year. > On Apr 28, 2022, at 4:12 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > I did, but I was hoping for some community comment, as well. > > On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 10:15 AM Mark Smith via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Mike, check out the LC blog posts for summaries of Days 1 and 2, not sure >> if a day 3 will be posted ( >> https://livecode.com/reporting-on-day-1-of-the-livecode-conference/). >> >>> On 28 Apr 2022, at 14:44, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>> I am stuck in a time sink. I missed just about all of the devcon as a >>> result. Anyone want to fire off on a recap? >>> >>> -- >>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >>> On the second day, God created the oceans. >>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >>> and did a little diving. >>> And God said, "This is good." >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Apr 28 12:09:45 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 16:09:45 +0000 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2362DD23-522A-4F6F-A72E-0604D668B4F0@iotecdigital.com> Anytime I get to thinking I'm a pretty smart guy, I can just watch one of Mark Waddingham's sessions, and be duly humbled. ;-) Bob S > On Apr 28, 2022, at 09:06 , Mark Smith via use-livecode wrote: > > I thought it was a pretty good conference Mike, and surprisingly well handled by Zoom (although it took me 3 days to figure out what all the bits and pieces of the interface were for) and there were some pretty great presentations. Some I had to miss because of other commitments so I’ll be looking forward to watching them post-conf when Heather has a chance to upload them. There were a lot of very forward looking sessions from Kevin and company, and Mark Talluto had an interesting take on app development presented during his plenary (Appli.io ). Lots of ideas I think on how things could be improved or, as Mark said “made as simple as possible, but no simpler” (or maybe that was Einstein!!). Either way, great quote/comment. Like Matthias, I signed up for the LC Global 22/23 just so I could keep up with it all during the coming year. From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Apr 28 12:37:59 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 11:37:59 -0500 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <18071095658.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Same here, I'm really looking forward to seeing the iterations of the new IDE and features as they happen. The future looks very bright and I want to be there. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On April 28, 2022 10:41:12 AM matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > I was so impressed especially by the planned new features of LC that i > subscribed right away to the upcoming LC Global 22/23 which starts in May > this year. > https://livecode.com/global/global2022/ > From ahsoftware at sonic.net Thu Apr 28 12:55:35 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 09:55:35 -0700 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 4/28/22 08:39, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > I was so impressed especially by the planned new features of LC that i subscribed right away to the upcoming LC Global 22/23 which starts in May this year. > https://livecode.com/global/global2022/ Same here. I misjudged the time so I overslept and missed Mark Waddingham's keynote but I'll catch it on the rebound. I do think Appli gives LC what's been missing to draw in new users, so check out Mark Talluto's keynote on day 3 for the details. And I highly recommend Craig Newman's lightning talk. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu Apr 28 15:02:19 2022 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 15:02:19 -0400 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: just a couple of thoughts from the whole two hours I was on for Monday: * Cough up your $299 for LCG, today. * This wasn't discussed, but there is supposed to be some fixing coming in dp's of 10 for behaviors, especially nested behaviors * The whole low-code piece...meh. It feels like they're chasing another dead end. * I heard some hints about discussion of some better object management and handling. I hope that happens. * Still nothing on dealing with the way groups are handled. On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 12:56 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 4/28/22 08:39, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > > > I was so impressed especially by the planned new features of LC that i > subscribed right away to the upcoming LC Global 22/23 which starts in May > this year. > > https://livecode.com/global/global2022/ < > https://livecode.com/global/global2022/> > > Same here. I misjudged the time so I overslept and missed Mark > Waddingham's keynote but I'll catch it on the rebound. I do think Appli > gives LC what's been missing to draw in new users, so check out Mark > Talluto's keynote on day 3 for the details. And I highly recommend Craig > Newman's lightning talk. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Apr 28 15:37:29 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 14:37:29 -0500 Subject: Native Android input field Message-ID: In the after-party that Richard set up on the last day of the conference, the question came up whether the native Android field widget would scroll. The answer is, yes it does. There is one little glitch. If the widget is editable, and your finger lifts inside the widget after scrolling, the keyboard pops up. If you end the scroll while your finger is outside the field area, it does not. This doesn't happen if the field is not editable. Also in either case, the scroll isn't as smooth as it is when constructed in a script. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From ahsoftware at sonic.net Thu Apr 28 15:45:28 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 12:45:28 -0700 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8145432e-26f1-7627-02f7-554f9dddd646@sonic.net> On 4/28/22 12:02, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > * The whole low-code piece...meh. It feels like they're chasing another > dead end. Oh, I gotta disagree there. Just a different target audience. Maybe not for those of us already in the flock, but I think what's been missing from LiveCode is that first-user experience. The one when you first launched HyperCard and were able to connect a button to a new card without doing anything more than point and click and bang! you had a working application. I think appli can be the gateway drug to LC that expands the subscriber base, and that's good for everybody. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Apr 28 15:54:42 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 12:54:42 -0700 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: <8145432e-26f1-7627-02f7-554f9dddd646@sonic.net> References: <8145432e-26f1-7627-02f7-554f9dddd646@sonic.net> Message-ID: <0660c4c2-6450-2248-8fcf-8004e0d0733c@fourthworld.com> To clarify: "low code" is just a modern term for what LC's been providing the whole time. "no code" is what Appli does, an adjacent but very different market for those whose needs can be satisfied without the nuance scripting provides. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Mark Wieder wrote: > On 4/28/22 12:02, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > >> * The whole low-code piece...meh. It feels like they're chasing another >> dead end. > > Oh, I gotta disagree there. Just a different target audience. > > Maybe not for those of us already in the flock, but I think what's been > missing from LiveCode is that first-user experience. The one when you > first launched HyperCard and were able to connect a button to a new card > without doing anything more than point and click and bang! you had a > working application. I think appli can be the gateway drug to LC that > expands the subscriber base, and that's good for everybody. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Apr 28 15:57:16 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 12:57:16 -0700 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1af046d3-83b1-5f2d-c798-53c1c7e4a886@fourthworld.com> Mike Kerner wrote: > * This wasn't discussed, but there is supposed to be some > fixing coming in dp's of 10 for behaviors, especially > nested behaviors I missed a bug report: what are the issues with nested behaviors? > * Still nothing on dealing with the way groups are handled. What aspects of group handling, and how should they be different? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ahsoftware at sonic.net Thu Apr 28 16:08:44 2022 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 13:08:44 -0700 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: <0660c4c2-6450-2248-8fcf-8004e0d0733c@fourthworld.com> References: <8145432e-26f1-7627-02f7-554f9dddd646@sonic.net> <0660c4c2-6450-2248-8fcf-8004e0d0733c@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <28c5f8d6-e034-ee63-1565-b72b25adadc7@sonic.net> On 4/28/22 12:54, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > To clarify: > > "low code" is just a modern term for what LC's been providing the whole > time. > > "no code" is what Appli does, an adjacent but very different market for > those whose needs can be satisfied without the nuance scripting provides. > I think what I saw in Mark's keynote is the ability in appli do some coding, just not to any extent the deep capabilities of LiveCode. Thus "low code". -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Apr 28 16:26:12 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 20:26:12 +0000 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That looked really interesing to me. The ability to create a no code web app was especially intriguing. I was not able to find the app on the Apple Store though. Where do I get the 45 day demo?? Bob S > On Apr 28, 2022, at 12:02 , Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > * The whole low-code piece...meh. It feels like they're chasing another > dead end. From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Apr 28 16:27:39 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 20:27:39 +0000 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <16E8D9EA-374D-4B63-B6F3-6C21CAF6177E@iotecdigital.com> NVM I found it. Not on the app store. Bob S > On Apr 28, 2022, at 13:26 , Bob Sneidar wrote: > > That looked really interesing to me. The ability to create a no code web app was especially intriguing. I was not able to find the app on the Apple Store though. Where do I get the 45 day demo?? > > Bob S > > >> On Apr 28, 2022, at 12:02 , Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: >> >> * The whole low-code piece...meh. It feels like they're chasing another >> dead end. > From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Apr 28 16:53:50 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 20:53:50 +0000 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: <1af046d3-83b1-5f2d-c798-53c1c7e4a886@fourthworld.com> References: <1af046d3-83b1-5f2d-c798-53c1c7e4a886@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Richard, I've been pounding the pulpit on this one for some time. Besides the default datagrid behavior, I have a whole library of handlers that I use for my datagrids that I need to access. To do this, I need my library to be inserted *between* the datagrid and the default behavior. This is not presently possible without a bit of magic someone sent to me. The fix is simple and elegant and has worked for me since I started using it. In behaviorsdatagridbuttonbehavior.livecodescript I replaced the private function _resourceStack handler with an updated one: -- Sly Labs! Inline Custom Behaviors /* private function _ResourceStack local theStack, theCharNo put the behavior of me into theStack if theStack is not empty then put offset(" of stack", theStack) into theCharNo delete char 1 to (theCharNo + 3) of theStack end if return theStack end _ResourceStack */ local sResourceStack private function _ResourceStack local theStack, theCharNo if sResourceStack is empty then put the behavior of me into theStack repeat if trueWord -1 of theStack is "revDataGridLibrary" or theStack is empty then exit repeat else put the behavior of theStack into theStack end if end repeat if theStack is not empty then put offset(" of stack", theStack) into theCharNo delete char 1 to (theCharNo + 3) of theStack end if put theStack into sResourceStack end if return sResourceStack end _ResourceStack -- END Sly Labs! Inline Custom Behaviors If I then set the behavior of the datagrid to my custom behavior, then set that behavior to the default datagrid behavior, then I have nested datagrid behaviors. (I think it's a bit more complex but that is the idea.) What's the advantage you say? Well for instance I have a selectionChanged hander that I use for all my datagrids, preventing me from having to code it in every datagrid in my app, which is quite a few. That selectionChanged handler accomodates a FindBar object so if I am searching for a data record in a database, selecting the found record in the datagrid will reload all the other associated data. Also in that behavior I have a standard method for querying data for the datagrids, a standard method for populating fields, buttons and menus on the card the datagrid is on, and a mouseDoubleUp handler so that when a user double clicks on a datagrid row I can process it. These use custom properties I set for each datagrid so that things like the table to query, the primary key, the field to focus on when done etc. are accessible to the particular datagrid. As a result, all I have to do now to create a new datagrid is copy/paste an existing one, name it, change a few custom properties, and set the column names, and away it goes. I suppose what would be needed to support this in the release versions of LC is a way to easily "insert" a behavior "before" or "after" the default behavior. Bob S > On Apr 28, 2022, at 12:57 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > Mike Kerner wrote: > > > * This wasn't discussed, but there is supposed to be some > > fixing coming in dp's of 10 for behaviors, especially > > nested behaviors > > I missed a bug report: what are the issues with nested behaviors? > > > > * Still nothing on dealing with the way groups are handled. > > What aspects of group handling, and how should they be different? > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Apr 28 16:58:00 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 13:58:00 -0700 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: <28c5f8d6-e034-ee63-1565-b72b25adadc7@sonic.net> References: <28c5f8d6-e034-ee63-1565-b72b25adadc7@sonic.net> Message-ID: <378fd701-439d-6447-3743-b93652a85d4d@fourthworld.com> Yes, but that's something of an "expert feature" in that intended market, much like coding externals for LC. In terms of general product flavor and intent, LC is "low code" and Appli is "no code". Given the clear mission for each, they seem good compliments. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems > Mark Wieder ahsoftware at sonic.net > Thu Apr 28 16:08:44 EDT 2022 > > Previous message (by thread): devcon 2022 recap > Next message (by thread): devcon 2022 recap > Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] > > On 4/28/22 12:54, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >> To clarify: >> >> "low code" is just a modern term for what LC's been providing the whole >> time. >> >> "no code" is what Appli does, an adjacent but very different market for >> those whose needs can be satisfied without the nuance scripting provides. >> > > I think what I saw in Mark's keynote is the ability in appli do some > coding, just not to any extent the deep capabilities of LiveCode. Thus > "low code". From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Apr 28 17:02:22 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 14:02:22 -0700 Subject: Native Android input field In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: J. Landman Gay wrote: > In the after-party that Richard set up on the last day of the > conference, the question came up whether the native Android > field widget would scroll. The answer is, yes it does. > > There is one little glitch. If the widget is editable, and your > finger lifts inside the widget after scrolling, the keyboard pops > up. If you end the scroll while your finger is outside the > field area, it does not. > > This doesn't happen if the field is not editable. Also in either case, > the scroll isn't as smooth as it is when constructed in a script. > > Good find with that bug report. Thanks for submitting it. The circumstance I introduced in the chat was something far more common: just scrolling a field, a normal non-editable LC field used to display text. Doing that without jittery motion and with appropriate scroll-end indication in LiveCode for mobile requires following the steps in this tutorial: https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4069/l/94412-creating-a-native-scroller-to-scroll-a-field Seems pretty fiddly just to scroll a field. Makes me wonder how many of us would be using LC if those steps were required to have normal scrolling in our desktop apps when we were first considering this platform. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Apr 28 17:03:52 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 21:03:52 +0000 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: <378fd701-439d-6447-3743-b93652a85d4d@fourthworld.com> References: <28c5f8d6-e034-ee63-1565-b72b25adadc7@sonic.net> <378fd701-439d-6447-3743-b93652a85d4d@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <764776F4-9C13-40E1-ACF0-6B52AA528A19@iotecdigital.com> Well I downloaded the Appli app. The starting level is $45 / month, and storage is pretty sparse, which I can pay more for later. Doesn't look cost effective for me when I could just create my own web portal. Bob S > On Apr 28, 2022, at 13:58 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > Yes, but that's something of an "expert feature" in that intended market, much like coding externals for LC. > > In terms of general product flavor and intent, LC is "low code" and Appli is "no code". > > Given the clear mission for each, they seem good compliments. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Apr 28 20:08:52 2022 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 19:08:52 -0500 Subject: Native Android input field In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <18072a62220.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Yes, that would be ideal. Let's see what the Great Reimagining brings. In the chat I remember saying I couldn't use the widget but I couldn't remember why. The unexpected keyboard display was the reason. And unlike a normal LC field, you can't set it to allow copying without also allowing editing. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On April 28, 2022 4:04:31 PM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > The circumstance I introduced in the chat was something far more common: > just scrolling a field, a normal non-editable LC field used to display text. From mark at canelasoftware.com Thu Apr 28 20:46:32 2022 From: mark at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 17:46:32 -0700 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: <764776F4-9C13-40E1-ACF0-6B52AA528A19@iotecdigital.com> References: <28c5f8d6-e034-ee63-1565-b72b25adadc7@sonic.net> <378fd701-439d-6447-3743-b93652a85d4d@fourthworld.com> <764776F4-9C13-40E1-ACF0-6B52AA528A19@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <4910EBCA-6E93-4ECA-8E3C-28E2E2242975@canelasoftware.com> Hi Everyone, We should have Appli forums in the coming week or so. I’ll try to keep Appli-related responses to a minimum. Appli comes in two parts. Part 1 - Appli IDE runs as a desktop app that you can download from appli.io. Interesting note: We designed the IDE to work on desktops and tablets like iPads. Pat 2 - Appli Player is available from Google Play and iOS app stores. Appli makes native apps only. They feel like web apps because they use the cloud for distribution and data storage. We are looking to support the web export feature in LC 10 when it is feasible to do so. No-code and low-code These are fun words that do not mean much. I said they are great buzz words to have on hand in my conference presentation. :) We have wizards that can do complex actions with a few clicks. We also have a list of actions that you can drag onto a workflow that effectively replaces typing code. The killer feature is that you can use actual LiveCode scripts in Appli. Canela and LiveCode have partnered to bring a different type of tool for app makers to market. Our collaboration aims to get more people into the LiveCode community. We believe that a larger community will benefit everyone. This summer, we will execute a marketing plan for people outside our beloved LC community to try Appli. We will do our best to excite people to take full advantage of their license features. One of those features is access to the LC IDE (no standalone building). Our mutual hope is that new people will try Appli and eventually fall in love with LiveCode. These developers will see Appli, LiveCloud, and LiveCode as a suite as tools to help them make apps. Licensing Appli means you are also financially supporting LiveCode. We do not want to generate any uncomfortable friction by providing an alternative method for making apps. Since day one of its existence, we have been LiveCode developers and, long before, with MetaCard. Appli is made 100% in LiveCode. It is a comprehensive example of a complex solution made in LiveCode. The LiveCode team has plans to express the goals of our suite soon. When they announce, I am confident they will clearly articulate the value proposition. If anyone has Appli questions, please feel free to write us at hello at appli.io. -Mark Talluto > On Apr 28, 2022, at 2:03 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > Well I downloaded the Appli app. The starting level is $45 / month, and storage is pretty sparse, which I can pay more for later. Doesn't look cost effective for me when I could just create my own web portal. > > Bob S > > >> On Apr 28, 2022, at 13:58 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Yes, but that's something of an "expert feature" in that intended market, much like coding externals for LC. >> >> In terms of general product flavor and intent, LC is "low code" and Appli is "no code". >> >> Given the clear mission for each, they seem good compliments. >> >> -- >> Richard Gaskin >> Fourth World Systems > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Thu Apr 28 23:25:26 2022 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 13:25:26 +1000 Subject: Pulldownmenu button bug on Windows Message-ID: I have a pulldown menu button which has a menupick script and also a mouseLeave script. On a Mac, when a user brings up the menu and drags the mouse down to select a menu item (leaving the button rect but within the pulldown menu), the menupick handler is invoked, and then the mouseleave handler is called. This is what I expected. However on Windows, the mouseleave script is called immediately the mouse leaves the button while the user is still in the process of making the selection, and then menupick is called if the user actually makes the selection. Which means standalones behave quite differently (in my app, the menupick did something to a selection in a field, and mouseleave did something else to the selection: the order is thus critical). They can’t both be right, so certainly one is a bug. The Mac order is IMO correct since the pulldown menu has been started by the user so the app should be in a modal state until the menu selection is resolved. Neville From mkoob at rogers.com Fri Apr 29 08:45:33 2022 From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 08:45:33 -0400 Subject: LC 9.6.7 export snapshot from a player object seems to fail on Windows (10) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Paul I just tried the same thing and got the same result. It works on Mac, not on Windows. I also tried exporting the image as a file to see if that made any difference. export snapshot from rect tRect of player "mediaConvert" of stack "libHrAPI" to file [filepath/filename.png] as PNG I got an image file but it is the same as what you see in the image object on the stack — an image of a white rect inside the player boarder. So it looks like it is a bug. The snapshot does create a proper png it just doesn’t grab the current video image inside the player it just gets a white rect. Martin > On Apr 27, 2022, at 6:21 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > > I am executing the following 2 lines of code: > > export snapshot from rect tRect of player "mediaConvert" of stack "libHrAPI" to tImage as PNG > put tImage into img "imageConvert" of stack "libHrAPI" > > Prior to the export the player has a video load and has the currentTime set to a particular frame, and I can see in the stack that the player is showing the correct frame is visible. > I can also see that the image "imageConvert" is also visible, but empty > > After the Export Snapshot is executed, it looks like tImage contains valid PNG data, although I can not tell if it is the correct image > After the Put statement, the image "imageConvert" is set to a white rectangle with a little bit of the player border on the left and top. It is the same size as the player where as the empty image I started with was larger. > > This is with LC 9.6.7 on Windows 10. This code works on macOS. Does anyone know if there is a known Windows bug with export a snapshot form a player and any work around? > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From craig at starfirelighting.com Fri Apr 29 09:07:31 2022 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 09:07:31 -0400 Subject: Pulldownmenu button bug on Windows In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4B9AAEFF-E7EB-49D0-809A-EE1B924737CD@starfirelighting.com> Hi. I will say again that the format of the forum is so much easier to work with. I made a pulldown and two fields, with these two handlers in the button script: on menuPick pItemName put pItemname into fld 1 end menuPick on mouseleave put random(999) into fld 2 end mouseleave On my Mac ( I will never voluntarily use Windows) the menuItem is always nicely placed into fld 1 after being selected. A random number appears in fld 2 nicely as well. The mouseLeave handler fires immediately if I just enter the button rect and leave it without ever clicking the mouse to invoke a menu. Makes sense. What I found interesting is that when the cursor is below the actual button, "within" the pulldown menu space, that handler fires after an ordinary menu selection,. It is as if the mouse has “left” the button rect by virtue of the menu “space” disappearing after a selection is made. Either that or LC “sees” the entirety of the button and the menu space as its rect. Whatever. But that is how the Mac works. I apologize, but I see that I have been of no help to you at all. Craig > On Apr 28, 2022, at 11:25 PM, Neville Smythe via use-livecode wrote: > > I have a pulldown menu button which has a menupick script and also a mouseLeave script. > > On a Mac, when a user brings up the menu and drags the mouse down to select a menu item (leaving the button rect but within the pulldown menu), the menupick handler is invoked, and then the mouseleave handler is called. This is what I expected. > > However on Windows, the mouseleave script is called immediately the mouse leaves the button while the user is still in the process of making the selection, and then menupick is called if the user actually makes the selection. > > Which means standalones behave quite differently (in my app, the menupick did something to a selection in a field, and mouseleave did something else to the selection: the order is thus critical). > > They can’t both be right, so certainly one is a bug. The Mac order is IMO correct since the pulldown menu has been started by the user so the app should be in a modal state until the menu selection is resolved. > > Neville > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Fri Apr 29 12:25:51 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 12:25:51 -0400 Subject: LC 9.6.7 export snapshot from a player object seems to fail on Windows (10) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <15163895-9318-8a50-01f7-8ea08387f1fe@researchware.com> Martin, Thank you for confirming. I have filed a bug with Livecode: https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23694 On 4/29/2022 8:45 AM, Martin Koob wrote: > Hi Paul > > I just tried the same thing and got the same result. It works on Mac, not on Windows. > > I also tried exporting the image as a file to see if that made any difference. > > export snapshot from rect tRect of player "mediaConvert" of stack "libHrAPI" to file [filepath/filename.png] as PNG > > I got an image file but it is the same as what you see in the image object on the stack an image of a white rect inside the player boarder. > > So it looks like it is a bug. The snapshot does create a proper png it just doesnt grab the current video image inside the player it just gets a white rect. > > Martin > >> On Apr 27, 2022, at 6:21 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: >> >> I am executing the following 2 lines of code: >> >> export snapshot from rect tRect of player "mediaConvert" of stack "libHrAPI" to tImage as PNG >> put tImage into img "imageConvert" of stack "libHrAPI" >> >> Prior to the export the player has a video load and has the currentTime set to a particular frame, and I can see in the stack that the player is showing the correct frame is visible. >> I can also see that the image "imageConvert" is also visible, but empty >> >> After the Export Snapshot is executed, it looks like tImage contains valid PNG data, although I can not tell if it is the correct image >> After the Put statement, the image "imageConvert" is set to a white rectangle with a little bit of the player border on the left and top. It is the same size as the player where as the empty image I started with was larger. >> >> This is with LC 9.6.7 on Windows 10. This code works on macOS. Does anyone know if there is a known Windows bug with export a snapshot form a player and any work around? >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Apr 29 13:51:53 2022 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 17:51:53 +0000 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: <4910EBCA-6E93-4ECA-8E3C-28E2E2242975@canelasoftware.com> References: <28c5f8d6-e034-ee63-1565-b72b25adadc7@sonic.net> <378fd701-439d-6447-3743-b93652a85d4d@fourthworld.com> <764776F4-9C13-40E1-ACF0-6B52AA528A19@iotecdigital.com> <4910EBCA-6E93-4ECA-8E3C-28E2E2242975@canelasoftware.com> Message-ID: <2E440010-19A3-46D7-9445-A6EB84CA309C@iotecdigital.com> Thanks for the Clarification Mark. I'm curious, is there a way to connect to data sources other then the Appli cloud storage? I ask because this was looking like a really good way to port a reduced functionality version of my Forms Generator to some kind of web portal without actually having to develop the web side of things. If I could demonstrate the ability to generate signable PDFs, I might be able to convince my employer to sign up for this. Bob S > On Apr 28, 2022, at 17:46 , Mark Talluto via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Everyone, > > We should have Appli forums in the coming week or so. I’ll try to keep Appli-related responses to a minimum. > > Appli comes in two parts. > Part 1 - Appli IDE runs as a desktop app that you can download from appli.io. Interesting note: We designed the IDE to work on desktops and tablets like iPads. > > Pat 2 - Appli Player is available from Google Play and iOS app stores. > > Appli makes native apps only. They feel like web apps because they use the cloud for distribution and data storage. We are looking to support the web export feature in LC 10 when it is feasible to do so. > > No-code and low-code > These are fun words that do not mean much. I said they are great buzz words to have on hand in my conference presentation. :) > > We have wizards that can do complex actions with a few clicks. We also have a list of actions that you can drag onto a workflow that effectively replaces typing code. The killer feature is that you can use actual LiveCode scripts in Appli. > > Canela and LiveCode have partnered to bring a different type of tool for app makers to market. Our collaboration aims to get more people into the LiveCode community. We believe that a larger community will benefit everyone. This summer, we will execute a marketing plan for people outside our beloved LC community to try Appli. We will do our best to excite people to take full advantage of their license features. One of those features is access to the LC IDE (no standalone building). > > Our mutual hope is that new people will try Appli and eventually fall in love with LiveCode. These developers will see Appli, LiveCloud, and LiveCode as a suite as tools to help them make apps. > > Licensing Appli means you are also financially supporting LiveCode. We do not want to generate any uncomfortable friction by providing an alternative method for making apps. Since day one of its existence, we have been LiveCode developers and, long before, with MetaCard. Appli is made 100% in LiveCode. It is a comprehensive example of a complex solution made in LiveCode. > > The LiveCode team has plans to express the goals of our suite soon. When they announce, I am confident they will clearly articulate the value proposition. > > If anyone has Appli questions, please feel free to write us at hello at appli.io. > > -Mark Talluto > >> On Apr 28, 2022, at 2:03 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Well I downloaded the Appli app. The starting level is $45 / month, and storage is pretty sparse, which I can pay more for later. Doesn't look cost effective for me when I could just create my own web portal. >> >> Bob S >> >> >>> On Apr 28, 2022, at 13:58 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> Yes, but that's something of an "expert feature" in that intended market, much like coding externals for LC. >>> >>> In terms of general product flavor and intent, LC is "low code" and Appli is "no code". >>> >>> Given the clear mission for each, they seem good compliments. >>> >>> -- >>> Richard Gaskin >>> Fourth World Systems >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Fri Apr 29 14:27:09 2022 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 14:27:09 -0400 Subject: LC 9.6.7 export snapshot from a player object seems to fail on Windows (10) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6904ea72-7dc5-81dd-233d-00cf23793896@researchware.com> There are apparently no work-arounds for the failure of this version of the export snapshot on Windows 10/11 I've tried:     -- method that does not work on Windows, but works on macOS with player hidden [A REQUIREMENT]     put the rect of player "myPlayer" into tRect     export snapshot from rect tRect of player "myPlayer" to tImage as PNG     put tImage into img "myImage"     -- trying alt method #1 [FAILS LIKE ABOVE]     export snapshot from player "myPlayer" to tImage as PNG     put tImage into img "myImage"     -- trying alt method #2 [TAKES A SNAPSHOT OF THE WINDOWS SCREEN]     put the rect of player "myPlayer" into tRect     export snapshot from rect tRect to tImage as PNG     put tImage into img "myImage"     -- trying alt method #3 [WORKS ONLY IF VISIBLE ON SCREEN WITH NOTHING ON TOP (no overlapping windows)] This also fails (with an execution error) if the user has moved the window so the player is off-screen!     put the rect of player "myPlayer" into tRect     export snapshot from rect tRect of window (the windowID of this stack) to tImage as PNG     put tImage into img "myImage" As I need to grab multiple specific frames of video as a series of images behind the scenes for any analysis/report, I can not have the player visible while the user is running the analysis. Current the code hides the player controller. The player is on a non-visible stack and the video is associated with that hidden player. A loop then sets the currentTime of the player to various points based on clips provided by the researcher and takes an image of each frame that currentTime is set to. This works on macOS and in some prior versions of LC and/or Windows, worked on Windows as well and now in LC 9.6.7 on WIn 10/11 it does not. On 4/27/2022 6:21 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > I am executing the following 2 lines of code: > >               export snapshot from rect tRect of player "mediaConvert" > of stack "libHrAPI" to tImage as PNG >               put tImage into img "imageConvert" of stack "libHrAPI" > > Prior to the export the player has a video load and has the > currentTime set to a particular frame, and I can see in the stack that > the player is showing the correct frame is visible. > I can also see that the image "imageConvert" is also visible, but empty > > After the Export Snapshot is executed, it looks like tImage contains > valid PNG data, although I can not tell if it is the correct image > After the Put statement, the image "imageConvert" is set to a white > rectangle with a little bit of the player border on the left and top. > It is the same size as the player where as the empty image I started > with was larger. > > This is with LC 9.6.7 on Windows 10. This code works on macOS. Does > anyone know if there is a known Windows bug with export a snapshot > form a player and any work around? > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mark at canelasoftware.com Fri Apr 29 15:46:44 2022 From: mark at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 12:46:44 -0700 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: <2E440010-19A3-46D7-9445-A6EB84CA309C@iotecdigital.com> References: <28c5f8d6-e034-ee63-1565-b72b25adadc7@sonic.net> <378fd701-439d-6447-3743-b93652a85d4d@fourthworld.com> <764776F4-9C13-40E1-ACF0-6B52AA528A19@iotecdigital.com> <4910EBCA-6E93-4ECA-8E3C-28E2E2242975@canelasoftware.com> <2E440010-19A3-46D7-9445-A6EB84CA309C@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Hi Bob, I am happy to say that Richard Gaskin is our first 3rd party provider. He wants to make connections for many things external. Databases is top on the list the last time we spoke. I’ll ping him to chime in with more details. Best regards, Mark Talluto appli.io livecloud.io nursenotes.net canelasoftware.com > On Apr 29, 2022, at 10:51 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > Thanks for the Clarification Mark. I'm curious, is there a way to connect to data sources other then the Appli cloud storage? I ask because this was looking like a really good way to port a reduced functionality version of my Forms Generator to some kind of web portal without actually having to develop the web side of things. If I could demonstrate the ability to generate signable PDFs, I might be able to convince my employer to sign up for this. > > Bob S From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat Apr 30 13:37:42 2022 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2022 10:37:42 -0700 Subject: devcon 2022 recap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8ffac9ac-7b88-4fee-cf39-d526a18b90bd@fourthworld.com> Mark Talluto wrote: > I am happy to say that Richard Gaskin is our first 3rd party provider. > He wants to make connections for many things external. Databases is > top on the list the last time we spoke. Ill ping him to chime in with > more details. Thank you, Mark. The current vision for the plugin is to provide at least basic CRUD operations for SQL DBs, which would of course mean MySQL with postgreSQL and MariaDB coming along for the ride. Some form of this could become an LC tool as well as an Appli component. The opportunity is obvious: it's nice to have a convenient UI for accessing organizational data ponds. The challenges are two-fold: providing consistent access across what may be a wide range of DB API styles depending on IT habits within prospective orgs, and authentication methods those orgs support. DB Access: The challenge with this is identifying applicable use cases. Where orgs using Appli or LiveCode may allow internal direct access to DBs, this is a relatively simple matter, as the socket comms for those are consistent. But most orgs use HTTP-based APIs for DB operations. This is popular even for internal use, and usually consider necessary for all connections from the open Internet. Over the coming months we'll be discussing needs with prospective customers to identify API patterns to see where we can provide a UI that allows them to easily drop in URLs needed for access. It may be that we'll have to offer a setup service to get less technically-inclined customers going, but some orgs may not provide external API access for internal APIs. We'll see how that unfolds as we learn more about use cases. Authentication: Where API authentication is done through httpBasic or OAuth2, LC's excellent support for both makes those straightforward. But many larger orgs use LDAP for authentication. So far I've not seen an LDAP library for LC, and having reviewed the LDAP specs it seems a task worth thinking about very carefully before committing to delivery. If any of you know of an LDAP authentication library for LC Script that would be very helpful. More to come as research on this unfolds... -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com