Close & remove from memory - Engine hang

Curry Kenworthy curry at
Fri May 7 21:39:20 EDT 2021


 > I routinely run 3 versions of LC simultaneously
 > with different stacks and projects in each.
 > I've left them all running for weeks at a time without any issues

That's pretty scary; your habits are much like mine! That's how I work.
I have two LCs minimized today, and each has been open for a week.
(BTW, leaving the IDE minimized on Windows can trigger Invisible Menus.
Still not fixed, last time I checked, but I have a good workaround.)

And guess what, I haven't had any Hangs lately. I'm Hang-free!
But there's a reason for that: I already worked around them.

So I'm OK; it no longer affects me. I could just go my way and not care.
But that wouldn't make me a Good Samaritan, nor a responsible user.
Nope, I will report them as soon as I can. That's just my style.
I always try to leave LC better than the way I found it, for others.

And for some areas that are "not great" I may offer some addon code.
(After my current addons are updated, of course.)

 > pinning down these elusive behaviors can be difficult.

Amen to that! Of the 4 Hangs I've had, I think I can recipe only 2.
The other 2 Hangs I need to observe more before attempting a recipe.
And I've seen yet another 2 - both on Mac, I think - that I've not had.
So short-term I can only hope to report one-third of Hangs I've seen.

 > I do recall one hang I had quite a while ago
 > but I'm not sure why it happened.

So yours might make it a total of 7 Hangs, or it might be an overlap.
But that's at least 6 that I can vouch for. And that is only for Hangs!

When we talk about non-Hang bugs, glitches, weak features...whew.
Because Hangs (all 6+ of them) are very rare compared to regular bugs.
LC is Pretty Darn Buggy. So much so that some people threw in the towel.

I'm not a towel-thrower. Anything but! I'm awesome at the workarounds.
You are too, I bet. But I do empathize when people hit bugs on projects.

Since I'm not always an exact genetic clone of Speedy Gonzales in terms 
of my speed in delivering addons, I often empathize first, and make an 
addon for weak feature areas a bit later. Meanwhile I file bug reports.

 > only that it may not be as bad for everyone as Curry suggests

I don't think I suggested that at all, but if I gave that impression,
thanks for noting it! I'll clarify: bugs are NEVER bad for everyone.
Extreme example: LC bugs are not bad for people who never use LC itself,
and who additionally don't use any products or services driven by LC. :)

More moderate: An LC print bug won't bother people who never print.
And that happens. Many times I've not noticed a bug until a new project.
It's usually just a little more complicated than that, but not much.

Often a bug involves a specific platform, and a feature area or subset.
If you use that feature, it's a problem. If not, life is groovy.
Like printing checkboxes on Windows; that took forever to get fixed!
If it is fixed now - I've forgotten; been away from that project.

Bugs are only a problem when they are triggered. No trigger, no problem.
That's why I love workarounds - but I have to remember to file reports.
Because that same bug (not hurting me!) can give someone else a bad day.

And if you don't use a certain feature, or part of a feature with a bug,
you won't have the problem. So definitely not always bad for everyone!
Most bugs only affect a minority of users, at least in ways they notice.

But bugs ARE bad when they strike, especially without workarounds.
It very much depends what area of LC you're working in, doesn't it?
Having a buggy IDE ain't great either; it doesn't attract the newbies!
If they play in the wrong part of LC and hit bugs, not all stick around.

Not only newbies; excessive bugs can also give headaches to "oldies."
We've seen some people leave, others complain, others searching for help 
on features that are surprisingly basic/simple and should be rock solid.

If we want LC to grow, to have a new generation of users, bugs hurt.
If we want to energize the existing users, bugs hurt there too.
To summarize, it's rare that bugs ever help. (I've seen one; very rare.)
I consider bugs important. I've even been bitten some myself by LC bugs.

I enjoy workarounds, but at some point, Too Many Bugs can zap the budget 
on a project, especially if you have negotiated a flat rate. Ouch.
I usually make lemonade out of those lemons, but a headache at times.

Including right now! Big deadline, basic features (for 2021) and then:
It's your Lucky Day, here's a bazillion bugs, plus some weak features!
Great, today is my Lucky Day! I won a bag of bugs! Workaround time....

And I have to get back to that effort - already worked around the bugs,
but still have to improve some "Weak LC Features" and wrap up deadlines.
Thanks for chiming in! Glad to see a fellow weeklong-minimized-IDE user:
I love being able to switch instantly, or jump right back into my work.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting

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