LC Bugmageddon or Bugportunity?

Sean Cole (Pi) sean at
Tue Feb 23 13:35:02 EST 2021

Good luck, Curry. That’s all I’m gonna say this time :P

On Tue, 23 Feb 2021 at 16:58, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
use-livecode at> wrote:

> Me, recently:
>  > I don't have any big headaches, thank God!
> That's true; it's rare that I get stuck. I'm workaround-musclebound. :)
> But I do understand why people get headaches and get stuck.
> Hope I didn't sound aloof from the problems; just busy working around.
> It's not just features; it's LiveCode's level of quality/bugs!
> Only in the last few days, I've run across:
> - two, maybe three clipboard copy/paste bugs or deficiencies
> - a PDF bug or limitation
> - a field glitch, and a couple of other suspicious behaviors
> - oh yeah, and a hard crash (almost forget)
> So I'll recipe and search/report those right after meeting my deadline.
> Meanwhile, I see many old friends/old bugs still in the latest LC!
> Rule of thumb: if you try ANY new route in LC, usually there's a bug.
> When you use an old route, often still the same bug, or a new twist.
> I can handle that. It's where the "workaround muscles" really help!
> Rarely bothers me, unless there's a showstopper on a tight deadline.
> I even enjoy a good workaround session; it's what I do for a living.
> But when beginners and intermediate users run into LC bugs, it's tough.
> Confuses them to sort their own bugs from LC's, much less solving them.
> Who do bugs hurt most? Newbies, people on deadlines, and LC itself.
> I've helped many newbies and oldbies get past LC bugs and get unstuck.
> With various competition, being buggy won't help make the world LC.
> I've warned about quality for many years. New code should be good code!
> (Yes, my own addons still need updating: the proverbial speck & log.
> Although here the log usually derives from the speck! It's coming.
> I know this would sound better if my own stuff was finished first.
> But I must and will stay involved, and speak up, while doing that.)
> We all build on top of the LC layer: the proverbial sandy/solid ground.
> Your software. My addons. Your clients. My clients. The IDE.
> The ground we build upon is more crucial than any single thing we build.
> There are tactics you can use to roll past bugs and soldier on!
> I'll be sharing some of those as soon as I write them up.
> Choice of dev tactics can really make or break a project.
> The key is how to leverage LC's strong points and avoid its weak points.
> That's the bright side, or "Bugportunity" of the situation.
> This can help coders survive and thrive in LC-land without headaches.
> To some extent, it can negate the effects of bugs and limitations.
> I had to adjust my own tactics for MORE LC bugs & LESS CK energy/health!
> I'm still not Speedy Gonzales yet, but it's getting better....
> So that's why I decided to write again. To the frustrated, there's hope!
> I know we always hear the same mantras and see the same approaches.
> This is NOT stuff you've heard; I'm the anti-mantra: mostly original.
> Just need to finish writing them up, and I'll share.
> My increased involvement on this list is the first step toward releases.
> As I also mentioned recently, credit where due: LC fixes MANY bugs!
> If we look at # of bugs fixed, it's impressive.
> Problem is that there are many MORE bugs. One gets fixed, another added.
> So far I haven't noticed a big reduction in the # of bugs ADDED.
> We're mere mortals, so I suggest turning the tide by reducing NET bugs.
> Either way, whether LC stays buggy or improves, users can succeed!
> But tactics are like an uber-bandaid; easy to forget about the injury.
> Later that can lead to further injury, infection, gangrene, etc. :)
>  From there, the Apocalypse. That's the "Bugmageddon" half of my message.
> I saw a funny YouTube animal video comment: "Damn nature, you scary!"
> Likewise, sometimes "Wow LC, you pretty buggy!" It's part luck & habit.
> If you have experience and stick to what works, smooth sailing.
> And of course, often sailing on top of previous workarounds.
> But when you need something different - boom! Likely to hit an LC bug.
> Tactics help there, too. Leverage LC's strong points & good code to win.
> But LC still needs fewer bugs. Fixing one bug without adding another.
> We all help, but ultimately it's LC's job/decision to reduce LC's bugs.
> I do my part: I'll start reporting this latest bug batch ASAP.
> Not only that, I'll post resources on tactics & LC paradigm when I can.
> Along with addon updates and some next-gen tools! Good things coming.
> Other people, and LC Ltd themselves, have great stuff coming soon too.
> So it's an exciting time! But I hope LC Bugs are decimated soon.
> Having a solid product would help LC reach a wider audience.
> This has always been a consistent problem in LC, from v111 to v962.
> Luckily we can usually work around bugs, but a solid LC would rock!
> Time to reach a new LC generation. Tools & tactics help, bugs don't.
> BTW LC, thanks for fixing the PDF bug blacking out fields with columns.
> That, and several other recent fixes, have really made a difference!!
> But oh man, there are still a bunch. Back to the workarounds/reports....
> Best wishes,
> Curry Kenworthy
> Custom Software Development
> "Better Methods, Better Results"
> LiveCode Training and Consulting
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